designing a replacement treatment plan for zero dollars and crossroads treatment plant that replacement treatment plant is going to go on the adjacent parcel along the west mcmurray road and we have an existing garage on the old site that is just too combination of a pretty thick slab underneath the floor to keep it from flotation and it has concrete walls going up one foot above the flood elevation and then all the doors will have aluminum stop logs put in place to prevent any flood from entering into the building and i guess it is beyond that to do you have any questions before you know any water in which building when is the last time the earlier you for that it was hurricane ivan and september two thousand four hundred years ago you had a flood waters came up to nine o three during that event so that would have required extensive retaining wall and that retaining wall started there encroaching the flood way of that small feeder screen like i said mr grey can come to us tomorrow and put a driveway on there as long as he got an agent before and so nothing in my mind is changed this is only for one single family in a boring with in this is a recommendation counter to good counsel some time here probably in ja so we could word a condition that we will not be further subdivided in create new lots with individual driveway access decent murray i think that they could live with that we do have plans my son may build the house up to the right of where we're proposing to which would be a shared driveway the same drive would just go up the split off but that's in the sky down the road but it is up that is a possibility there require another subdivision or would it be built on the same lot it would require other subdivisions but that's what we can not we can word it so that there would not be added to the plant sometime in july in the entire site completed in late october early november now on the surface it looks like a lot of signs i mean looks like it should be fine and that's why i didn't even consider the sign that i'm asking you for your recommendation tonight of the land we have a secondary driveway here on the south side so the issue is when you're coming north down if you could that's what you're going to see absolutely no issues if you would when you come south and you get about i think you're about thirty feet from our property line at this this would be the passing lane this would be the  this is our landscaping plan the only thing you don't see here is the bread sign which is currently is twenty five feet high and the slightly above these tree tops the word the word gets a little where the i think the need for the sun come as in is when you're protein the building you're going to see a hundred twenty eight feet of white no no contrast thing architecture no new requirement which drop to twenty feet so our side currently is twenty five it's going to go to twenty in the landscaping plant the the trees as they're  we open are going to be somewhere in the neighborhood of fifteen to eighteen feet high so i think by adding this side to this side i think you alleviate any potential for you probably do a decent job in alleviating some traffic issues as you come close to the building and then see oh my gosh ok there it is let me let me duck into the left lane and try and make that first entrance and i think also it probably makes a lot of this white space look a little more pleasing to everyone i think in the community so we're going to be in relationship to the and i apologize for not bringing it up on the last last year but it wasn't until the building started to go when that it became pretty obvious that it was going to be an issue for twenty two and a half feet high and twenty two and a half feet long it's c h o n d o u c you can see it's the letters  and how many total we're going to be on the building that four and the ordinance is one one and you got to vary it before for two they have the three on the front they have  the electronic poor to meet the requirements of the ordinance back in nineteen ninety one when we started the process it was here we were in the same room and going through a variety of things and we had to see a couple of variances at that time for various things one way you can look at this is taking a look at like lighting today in new technology instead of an incandescent light or a c f l light now you change to an alley deal like we're officially it's just bringing it up to what technology is providing for us today and all we're going to do is take the exact sign of the message board that we have and it's just manual and we'd like to make it aleck tronic there are many examples of that up and down nineteen and obviously they were installed prior to the it's still ocean of your new words maybe we were a little slow on on the draw on that but we weren't aware that it was only on the monument sign and as a result we we just felt now it is the proper time to to bring this into the twenty first century and as a result we are here tonight making this request first one is ours inside and there the following grouping is that of various others that are on our team as well as   the sign was like looks like today what it looks like today and is that you can see the location of the manual message for this year's there's he just showed fall under the non conforming ca correct i just didn't want it to the corridor to proliferate with all these color signs and council was concerned about that and we got from color to read back black background red back to color now so we have some non conforming situations out there so the current ordinance reads monument style fifty percent of your sign areas allowed to be used for electronic variable mass so anything new developing would follow in their zoning requirement we do have some existing non conforming situations out there the water dam plaza to challenge this so i'm assuming from that comment that this would be the first but again this wasn't in play in ninety one when we put this together so there wasn't any forethought in this secondly you to modernize and just keep up the data just using the parallel of the lighting again more efficient and and coming up to the twenty first century and then lastly i think it is going to be much better for our tenants as emily stated the road elevation  from there currently all the building signs from the front on the nineteen from each are not visible with maybe the exception of a when you're sitting at a light going northbound and you would have to be up at the first or second position outside of that your problem you don't see any of the building signs at all so this is a more efficient way to be able to move to project the business if it's good for the business and then it's also good for the commun play something on the building from that because it's it's in on the face he has right now big letters that say stevens on there and for us to try to do this logo on there really really i don't think it was very attractive our thought was here design the structures already there we don't really have to doing except change the panels and we would use a wider like this so wherever we have those the white in the black letters and be raised so i think it'll be tasteful looking and the light will shine out all around and will be clear in the middle so i think it will be tasteful looking  really i think it will accent what he has there other than trying to create something from scratch and there's already some graphics on there i think the signing of the square footage or whatever the current statute is or the law is i think we need a variance on that and be able to use the bottom part of that and that's what we're trying to do is one that would be in demand in the area and if it is someone visible i think it would create a better opportunity for people who were there and so forth so that's really are far process the veneer of thought you have we're flying through the variance the intent of the use of the law or the rule is obviously so it doesn't get too cluttered out on the street i understand that so i think from a static merely i really don't think i realized by the rules of law it would be describing the business instead of some graphic song there but to be the intent of the law or the accomplish what we're trying to accomplish  that's pretty much i do have a presentation just go through tonight i wanted to talk about a couple of things first i just wanted to do a brief project overview so we can talk a little bit about what's going to be included primarily in the zoning portion we are as ed mentioned going to be looking to update your zoning ordinance as well as your subdivision and land development ordinance or in a focus on a zoning first and then move into subdivision and land ordinance updates so i don't take some time obviously to prepare the ordinances and then once they are prepared the enactment process for each will take a couple of months because you have to have a com period with the county and you know recommendation has to come from planning commission to council so there's a process that needs to take place once the ordinances are drafted so we're looking to be as expedient and as efficient as possible but realistically we're looking at probably about an eighteen month process and what is going to be included in the project i believe you received in your packet what our scope of work is this is just a couple of brief highlights we're going to obviously do a comprehensive review and analysis of your existing ordinances and we are lucky that you just went through your comprehensive planning process and there was already a portion of that that looked at your zoning ordinance and have some pretty detailed recommendations in terms of updates from the consultant that worked with you on that so we're going to be starting at that point so we don't have to start from scratch which is good so that also help to expedite our process as part of the zoning process not only will be updating your tax but we will be looking at your zoning map and the basis for updates there will come from your future land use map doesn't have to be exact you know you don't have to follow everything on your future land use map and we may find some other areas that also need to be updated that may have not been on there but your future lean used from your comprehensive plan will be used as a basis to move look at that a little bit later in the presentation then we'll review and update the regulations in both ordinances as necessary and basically what will be included there is from our review will be the starting point and from what was done for a comprehensive plan then we'll be meeting with staff and with planning commission to go over our recommended dates figuring out what areas need to updates mark and will draft those who will be bringing them back for review through staff and planning commission as well as keeping counsel and as we move forward through the process also as part of your project and was looked at are mentioned in your comprehensive plan is the possible use of form base codes for specific areas in the township not township wide that perhaps looking at a few areas as within the township that might be appropriate for a form based code approach we do have a sub consultant on our team thomas committee who is a pretty well known consultant in pennsylvania for foreign based codes he does a lot of work for communities especially in eastern pennsylvania and incorporating for based codes into their ordinances so he'll be coming out to meet with the township to talk about if this is an appropriate technique for the township if so what areas would be good for form based codes so we'll be looking at that as well and then we will be here to assist you with the enactment process i talked about that earlier you do have a great staff in the sure you've done amendments in the past so everybody i'm sure is familiar with the requirements  planning code but we're here to help with that as well because it can be rather tedious process making sure everything is prepared and sent to the appropriate entities for review so we'll help you out with that and this part of the process will be engaging the public through our you're planning commission meetings will be meeting obviously regularly as i mentioned with you and the staff we will go to public meetings as part of the process and also be meeting specifically with counsel at two points during the process to keep them informed of our moving forward so any questions on the process itself as you know probably hopefully we did a zoning survey which was sent to planning commission staff council so in hearing board and your environmental quality for and we received a pretty good return on th surveys a little over half of the surveys returned back to us so just wanted to kind of go over briefly a summary of what we found out from the survey the purpose of the survey is to get an idea from people who are using and ministering the ordinance on a regular basis and also who work for the township to find out before we get too involved in the process what are some areas that you think need to be looked at and some of the most common comments that came out of the survey was to limit industrial and retail to appropriate locations so not to allow them to spread throughout the township to really focus on areas appropriate for the residential development to follow the comprehensive plan recommendations the reason one of the main reasons you do a comprehensive plan is to make sure your ordinances are consistent with the planning process and you went through a rather detailed process and so we wan make sure that we incorporate and follow recommendations from that planning process and also to allow for some more residential variety from the turn of some of the comments is that there is a lot of single family residential development in the townships or perhaps allowing a little bit more of a multifamily or dancer type development as well as your single family the second question why is asking and we also sent the future land  map with the surveys people could look at that so based on the changes that were recommended on the future land use map we wanted to find out what are the priorities so there were a number of recommendations that were on the map so based on that we wanted to see if there were priority areas and the two most common responses there and it goes back to also what was listed in question on the far bullet is that mixed user makes residential is a priority from the people who filled out the survey and also conservation residential so that would allow for different types of residential development in a more dense cluster type development that preserves open space in not just preserving open space for open space but meaningful open space or usable open space for the people who live in the developments the third question asked if there are any uses that warrant special consideration of regulation so this would be uses that you may apply additional supplemental regulations to the most common there are quite a few that were less than most common gas drilling parking regulations there were some comments that dealt with looking at the parking requirements making sure that they are up to date with the number of parking spaces required for the different types of development because that changes over time and so just making sure that what you are requiring for the various uses are appropriate you're not requiring too many spaces for instance for a specific use accessible residential there were some comments about residential development for that are accessible to different types of people i think from the comment it was not only financially accessible but also areas especially with the many cell towers that are starting to appear throughout neighborhoods in pennsylvania and all over so looking at regulations making sure that you're regulating those types of uses signs was a big one just looking at your science section making sure that it's appropriate for not being too stringent for businesses and making sure that you are not being overly restrictive but also regulating science in an appropriate manner and your business areas conservation has eventually i mentioned that earlier again with meaningful open space protection urban farming is something that's popping up a lot in areas mainly west chickens and be keeping that kind of thing and then temporary storage units was also m the fourth question asked about any current regulations or requirements that place a hardship or burden on property owners or developers some things that were mentioned where as a fifty foot setback in our one being overly restrict again signs came out so your requirements for signs need to be looked at the half acre minimum lot size in some of the districts setbacks just looking generally at your setbacks making sure that they are appropriate  conservation development that was mentioned as we talked about in several of the questions and answers i get parking was mentioned here making sure that the parking that is choir it is appropriate for the type of  development the requirement for interconnecting parking lots of over nineteen was mentioned that needs to be looked at because it's difficult to provide access drives i guess behind businesses along there so to look at that require a lot of coverage making sure that what is required for the law coverage is interpreted in the various districts and then there were some comments that stated that the current the question asked if there are requirements that are overly restrictive a couple of people mentioned that the current regulations are not strict enough but there wasn't additional detail mentioned there some not quite sure exactly what ones the fifth question and the issues related to the application are who will process that should be addressed oversight and force men was mentioned that needs to be strengthened the approval process stopped giving unnecessary variances and modifications and then just a general comment that anytime the process can be streamlined would result in better quality and satisfaction for the users of the ordinance the six question asked the ordinance is easy to use and understand the majority of the respondents felt that the ordinance can be understand if understood if people just take the time to read it and also that perhaps an ordinance like this is needs to be written with technical language and isn't meant to be written for an average lay person but some did feel some respondents didn't feel that there should be improvement in the existing ordinance such is additional graphics and easily searchable online version and improved references so that that would help to improve the usability of the ordinance for both staff as well as  developers the seventh question did ask about the form based codes if people understood them and why areas they felt that these would work if in the township the majority of respondents didn't know what form based codes w and some of the areas that people felt they were appropriate for were the town center area of the water area east of the mission road and around one thousand corner and there were a few respondents that felt that these types of regulations were not needed for peters there one that was the minority but a few people did feel that form based codes were not appropriate for issue for people again signage fix the number of signs per building required monument type signs throughout the township requiring sign sidewalks for all new development there was a comment and i believe it may have come from one of the planning commission members asking for the consultant to look at our peter's requirement standard with other similar communities so what you're requiring here how does that stack up with other communities that are similar to you in the area there is a comment about peters like harken that restrictions around that area must remain intact to keep the passes to keep that area of passive recreation and then the continued effort to make green spaces continuous as well as reduce hard to improve storm modern route runoff will go a long way to make peters a little ball and viable community and that kind of goes back to a lot of the parking answers to questions if you don't require excessive parking then you're not covering every inch of your development with with hard scapes so you would do allow for more of that storm water management so that that kind of covers what we learned from a survey which was just first have been gathering and quiet and two years adding up to a process there are new questions about that or any additional areas that you think need to be looked at specifically in the morning nets and keep in mind that tonight isn't the only chance obviously for you to provide that kind of input really for you to be active partners with us throughout the process  comments from you bit just wanted to find out if there was any anything that didn't get mentioned in the survey that you wanted to mention tonight for if there are any zoning not changes as part of this process so one of the look at some areas where major changes are being recommended based on the future land use map so this is your existing your existing zoning for these areas right now this single family so that is primarily your standard single family residential the conservation residential as i mentioned allows for single family residential currently so that's the exact opposite along for really large canvas state l in the future land use there is just an experience is a slight change but it's still a change since it staring out the murray town center to be a little bit larger as well as out of this mixed use neighborhood which is residential this brownish color as the conservation residential service is allowing a larger markets here i believe that you have a number of large homes there already and then mixed residential which is brown so again additional residential and also some additional commercial options neighborhood serving retail that currently is allowed in your existing training so those are some of the not all of them there are some little pockets throughout the township too on the future land use map there are some neighborhoods serving commercial areas but those are the kind of the major changes that are being recommended as part of the future land use map so one of the first things we're going to do as you're going through the process is to be carefully looking at the zoning map because we want to hold the first public meeting probably you know maybe for four or so months into the process and we want to have a draft zoning map at that meeting because one of the things that people from the public are going to be really interested in knowing in terms of the zoning updates is how is the map going to change because that relates directly to their properties and turns and uses in dimensional or armaments things like that so we really want to have a draft map as homework if you want to be doing is kind of comparing those two maps and thinking about are are you agreeing with the recommended updates from the comprehensive plan because it is changing especially a lot of the single family areas into conservation residential or the neighbor that makes neighborhood which allows additional density in additional residential options so are there any that were made in corporate governance where you know the question actually it's the exact opposite we are using the future landers plan as a basis for what for our process that we're going through now and one of the main implementation tools of a comprehensive plan are your ordinances so a lot of times what communities will do once they complete their planning process is to look at their ordinance to make sure that they are consistent with and that they are following the vision of your comprehensive plan so that's the process that we're undertaking now you finished your comprehensive plan recently so the next logical step and what the township has decided to do is to look at their two main land use ordinances which is your zoning and your subdivision and land development ordinance and making sure that they're consistent with a comprehensive plan and as you were going through that comprehensive planning the areas in your zoning ordinance were identified as needing to be updated or amended actually as part of the request for proposals that was died for this project the township included a summary of those recommendations and i believe it was two or three pages long it was fairly extensive and so what will be doing his will be using the comprehensive plan as our guide when we are doing out and what i just went through here in the presentation the different slots the changes in the slides look we're looking at your existing zoning and what was being recommended in the document so what you do is what normally is done it is you create that you create your vision your groundwork for your comprehensive plan the way the main way to implement that there are many of the recommendations in your comprehensive plan but one of the main ways to implement that vision because the comprehensive plan is just a guiding document is then to use your legal documents your ordinances to ensure that what is being recommended in the comprehensive plan can be enforced throughout the township so that's the step that we're at right now is to use your comprehensive plan to update your zoning on yourself now if you re each of the news oh yes we get it and so that's why it may be more into the final month range but i would say four or five months and if it's a little bit earlier today you know we don't want to rush the first public meeting present a map and have names of districts people are going to understand ok well what does that mean in terms of changes if any for my property or the township in general so the major things that we want to have  that public meeting would be the matter with the accompanying uses dimensional parlance that the purpose statements for each district and one of the things that was mentioned in your zoning review that was part of the comprehensive plan is the large number of districts that you currently have our so one thing we'll be looking at is the  existing districts how different are they could things be combined to be more efficient in terms of districts you know that may or may not be the case but that is something we'll be looking at not just adding districts  in the community correct sure yes according to the municipalities planning code you are the entity that is charged one of your duties is to prepare the zoning updates for consideration by the governing body so basically the end of the day what you will be doing is once the ordinances  drafted you will be recommending approval by council so you are the official body to prepare those amendments or the updates and send them along to council so what will be doing through the process is you have american as your consultant so will be preparing the draft updates but we won't be doing that in a vacuum we're doing that in partnership with the staff and with you so you'll be our sounding board you will be our guide will be presenting information to you as it's prepared so that you are reviewing as we go along so at the end you're not receiving and ordnance that you have to recruit two hundred pages all at once and figure out what changes have been made before you make your recommendation to council you'll be with us as we step through the process and with the changes that are being made so you will be helping us to prepare the draft well technically will be writing it will be done in partnership with staff and with planning commission one thing here tonight  when there are variances that are needed or they do hear the special exceptions as the hearings for those or if there's an issue with the zoning officers decision so i think it's  important while the planning commission is the official body that is charged with preparing the update i think getting them involved somehow is important and would be helpful because like mike said they're going to have a perspective to lend to the process as well and i did receive the summary of all the hearings that you've had over the past year so i can see kind of what some of the major issue or trends are in terms of what is coming up in front of some of our conversations and it as you saw in the presentation it came up in a lot of the comments from people who completed the survey so once that we're we're the zoning map is kind of one of the first steps but i think for