assistance they're also periods of delay and neck to be in the case and a lack of guidance from the district court both of which is which also contributed to mr davis procedural lapses these are extraordinary entirely dependent on there's also these periods of delayed activity case and also just a lack of guidance from the district court here i think this court as has been clear in some of its decisions in donald and also more determines that a civil litigator is is capable of handling their case to a certain degree and can't has effective communication and verbal skills and understanding they're still can can help even though the  civil litigation maybe doesn't get appointed counsel of they could still help them a lot with it with some of the procedural if they if the district judge had asked winston strawn could practice down there but i'm sure there are law firms there are  a motion it was getting rejected very very cursory fashion he was then responding to whatever deficiency he thought he was doing kind of what he needed to he's trying to get appointed counsel who's trying to tell the court that i need help i don't know what i'm doing like i  really help here and was trying to get to respond to whatever deficiency the court pointed out and deny his previous motion to try to address that in the next one and so and so this was his way of prosecuting this case was trying to get help he was he wasn't just neglecting his well i think that because the this was this past narrow view this was the what that means is that the allegations framed by the river writer in prison who was helping mr davis state a claim for you know whether or not he was individually able to to prosecute cases you say there was no oral hearing no she she never she never listened to it from the record got it doesn't appear that there was ever a of the district court did not abuse that discretion and well i don't agree with you if you have someone who is it's a serious case who is incapable of representatives s the difference for it would make a big difference if the judge called up the law for him and say you have this guy who's who's brought this shouldn't he seems to have serious psychiatric an request by a federal judge seriously but if this guy just calls up and starts raving he's not going to get a lawyer i don't understand why judges don't don't why churches are so has to ask for a lawyer or try to recruit a lawyer for someone who is obviously incapable of representing themselves well here the district court stated that it was a he said she said case that was not very complex so he did know what he did advise the court that he tried to get the lawyers and was able to do so that's correct that the death so there was a fax and forth between couldn't find him well then the court moved on to the second pruitt and corey and held that although he had satisfied the first current inquiry the case was not so complex that he needed an attorney because it was something there is the simplicity of the case from the simplicity of the sky the law the case may not be complex to an ordinary person with an i q of one hundred say but may be totally but here also that question is not before this court because this part only has appellate jurisdiction over the denial of the rule sixty motion which relates exclusively to the iraq authorities not to the underlying issues as to and as simple as it might be to simply have to have two people come in to give testimony about this incident or maybe several people give testimony about the process of complying with these sorts of workers  that would go to the assistance that he was receiving at the prison and whether or not he he was able through the court system in the prison system to get a copy that he could read or otherwise understand and here that i'd also like to point out something about the grievances council says that marrone had already received all of the grievances at as they were attached to his complaint but that's not true the only timely grievance that davis alleges that he filed w july twenty first two thousand and twelve and then he filed i think an additional three grievances that first prevents the july twenty first twenty twelve the only grievance that's all knitted from the complaint it is not attached so that is why asking for that document or for any other letters or other in iraq or any other type of way that you have exhausted you have to ask you and you know had he responded and said i don't understand what this document is i don't know i have three actions so they could be compensated for costs and fees if they if they had been recruited so when you make the inquiry about taking the case of the regional or would evaluate whether or not they've had a chance of recovering whether or not the prison dead look through the documents but do it one of the prison while looks through its documents before it reached out to mr davis presumably it did and it did not find anything the person had no information well davis would be expected to respond with either a copy of that initial grievance which would have been the only timely grievance on this issue or he would have responded with perhaps other efforts that he made y is just part of the discovery why don't they have the grievance in their foster well if he didn't actually filed a grievance that they wouldn't have it in their files and so they would ask for it otherwise joe you say i didn't file a grievance do not know if anyone to proceeding for summary judgment on the issue it is not then it really looks i'm not certain whether he did after the case was dismissed and so he never had to comply with the scheduling order related to the discovery request and never he gave that grievance to his grievance counselor and part of the issue is that she never process returned it so we filed the subsequent grievances trying to get that so that that's part of his his complaint allegations and as the government also mentions once the scheduling order was would point that that mr davis was trying here he was trying very hard to to respond and to file papers he was just simply missing the mark here and the governor said it would be different if you had responded to the interviews that you don't understand or didn't know what to do in his rule sixty six understand pro going to i'm not talking about pro bono these dealing with lawyers or iran the prison there and when they take the case the only way they're going to get recovery is if the they win the case right if they were taking i can change that many firms take it on a pro bono basis many firms like winston and strawman i'm talking about the sole practitioner or the two or three person firm around the prison they don't take cases just on the chance that they might win or they don't have a pro bono program like one sentence i mean  maybe those firms would have different policies but and if they don't take the case then it falls on on the court to appoint or not to appoint in this type of case and civil yes and that was fine and then taxpayers pay for  but where the prisons are located those are not available and i'm not sure whether you send lawyers down all the way to say to marion or other prisons in the southern part of illinois to represent things i don't know maybe do having to be practicing and where is where prisons are located or and once after three representing defendants yes you where is this prison not the prison where's honey i mean where on i