may thirtieth two thousand and three do we have any records from airborne express and when they received it and so on no your honor i those records available of two thousand and three on it would have done more for the b r d in this case they didn't receive anything so from their standpoint they got nothing on time and took that action so the question is is not whether we can equate failure to get anything to the be on time as a technical violation or would we have to extend the thesis  technical error is based on third party as opposed to the appellant whether it be the initial filing of the thirty day application period or the brief and those two items make up the a manual that you rely on which doesn't fact encourage strongly recommend you so the overnight delivery also says that except in exceptional circumstances they won't g any relief or failure to meet that deadline now you argue that by not granting relief in this case that puts the burden on the titian or to monitor or follow up with the system we did make inquiries and the tracking system the tracking system did not come up with but i mean before you got notice in other words you knew you had to make that vide date certain was there anything you could have done in the regular course of the services d h l or born provides to say i want confirmation of the actual delivery so you knew that it had not been delivered on time you know the package into that expressed box the receipt that's in the record that they provided is signed and dated and his assistant said well i put it in the box and immediately thereafter i realized i forgot to sign a i have to say i'm not familiar with that instruction to my knowledge that wasn't in the record that if the word is to be on a practice manual i found it somewhere i assume in the record b that hernandez rivera was talking about was an older section i think it was too far as you see how far to forty one or two forty two that set a fourteen day deadline since then there have been a lot of changes to the regulation we don't need in the record mr regulations or statutes or you know well your honor the statute says that the court's review is limited to the administrative record but that doesn't mean just because a relevant statute is not the minister of record we can look at the would as in other circuits apparently be willing to entertain an exceptional case well cases that arise within your within the circuit so you the board has jurisdiction and it's not mandatory in circuits other certainly your honor but i would request an opportunity to trial something supplemental not not having addressed that and in addition i like to point out none of these arguments were raised by the petitioner of course i've been reviewing this matter and trying to make sure that i'm done but the judge thought it was correct titian's counsel thought it was correct the government didn't object and what happened was the petitioner then later filed an appeal counting the time based on the extensions that the judge granted the board said it's out of time an elect stiction that was the exceptional circumstance and if and hernandez rivera cited at least two district court cases where the exact same thing happened where the judges thought they were granting a proper extension and everyone believe not your honor i certainly don't think that that would be anything that would merit any kind of extraordinary circumstance there has to be finality and these cases i see that my time is up so were generous on time you for those of you waiting we should say that meeting the following the argument in this case we will take about a ten minute break this case is scheduled to go twenty minutes each side so if you're trying to gauge when you want to make your phone calls or whatever that will help you and if you want to if you want to leave now you may