thoughts of what is existing if you have any recommendations to the committee for consideration if they have some issues or problems in the operation of it we will also listen to the comments were it you taking the specific item with the department's show i asked for public testimony as we have posted is there anyone wishing to give testimony for to the county court they're not obligated to submit however in the past when i think counsel had requested for that information then we asked them to submit at that time currently only type five activities commercial activities are required to submit income statements to the county because their fees are determined on what the they  want category tied into their event so it prevents them from getting their five fees or fees down to tafe or lord so those are concerned that the department is aware of trying to catch those who are for current year and i don't know we don't have any kind of numbers as far as what they actually bring in for revenue so if you were to take a football game ticket price times the number of people that are there much of this has to go to them in order for them to be exempt or is it just that they participate how do we how do we determine whether you get the break or you don't get the break because if i were doing one of these things i try to figure out probably should be directly linked to what it would take mr white was going down that line of questioning to what it would cost the county to pay for the cleanup itself if it needed to do it itself thank you could assist springs i'm sorry i don't know the exact date of the changes but of course the council needs to approve it rate so you folks i know we've presented a lot of different absences phase three schedules and according to how much it would we thought it would cost but whenever it comes to a body we reduced the cost position where we're allowing a for profit to use the benefit of having a nonprofit as part of their function and walk away with something significant in the nonprofit or for profit is not getting something significant so i totally support her position of creating a situation where there is a base amount that what the costs are for maintaining the stadium as an example for the baseball stadium a football stadium or the baseball stadium because it occurs to when m i l has a football game so i would be interested in finding out what the schools get which i would guess is offsetting the maintenance of the field versus what we get and if they're getting a deposit fee similar to ours then i'm ok with that but if they're getting a significant amount of the take i think we should know that and i think they should be happy to pay the same amount to us for memorial any for the questions you know i'm intrigued with this ideal of having a rational nexus between the fees date we charge in comparing it to what it would cost if we had our employees do it i don't know it's a real critical piece of information and we probably have that before we get into budget when we talk about fees again because you know we get the opportunity to look at fees and set them and i understand what miss miss  thirty three leases with various organizations mostly dealing with human concerns profits grants to review committee were responsible for all of the leases that are currently under our purview understand the grants review committee has since disbanded and just to give you kind of an overview of the thirty three leases we have they started the first one that was executed was in days and if this amount of insurance is adequate typically now these when we doing the lease we like to add in some language that it's more common in our leases nowadays where we reserve the  right from time to time increase coverage amounts upon our request in case it is a fifty year lease you know now these the million two million might be fine but you know thirty years from now maybe up to five million five million miss yes thank you very much chair looking at these leases that we have some of them going forward to many many many years i also hear that you know we might want to change the conditions and we might want to increase the insurance requirements because you know these the old know that a million dollars is a joke if we wanted to be new until their expiration however if we did already have a language in there are allowing us to adjust during the term of the agreement then we could adjust of course because it would be in accordance with the terms of the agreement also if we have a good relationship with the might be willing to just come in for a friendly amendment and adjust their insurance requirements sure how well that'll work but you know if we do have good relationships with a lot of these  property thank you and i understand it's expensive it's a much more expensive if we don't have it because you know one of the things that nonprofits do is they do all kinds of things that nobody else would do but they're willing to take the risk you know like i remember when i was a to me when we were talking about putting babies on the buses to take them to court he couldn't and everybody said watching him put babies on the buses i mean it was scary i mean we're talking major major exposure but you they would have the right to bring it back in a minute i think we might want to take a look we have a lot we have thirty three we have any idea how many of them have dead covered in it and how many don't is that something we just started putting in i'm just wondering how bad the situation is and should we be here be laboring it or just forget it it's going on but our current language i can tell you we are including that's all the ones you guys have approved recently have the language in it yeah ok i think something may be worse taking a look at when somebody has for thirty years i remember when i was getting ready to leave a meal several years just before i left day we had to change the transportation from one to five and it was it was important you know think of the exposures in transportation and you know with some of the nonprofits of course they're not is broad based and maybe there has to be some kind of scale to go along with the requirement if it's a tiny nonprofit doing one little thing like go to seeing grants or whatever they may not need but it's takes mosher but then there comes in the expertise of having the insurance people involved and i think that thank you for being here leases that have been were actually about thirty years into the original fifty year leases and of course some of them have been reassigned but they just reassigned the remainder so typically the total if i add up the total rants for the cool air comes out to about thirty three thousand dollars per year our expenses are typically less than two thousand there's really there's very little expense that goes along with managing th had a farm that was behind but that has now been assigned to a new farmer and as a condition of that he had to come in and pay all the background and the back water bills so  off the remainder of their lease and if they build buildings and they can sell their equipment and so forth so it's allowed farms to change hands when one farm wants to retire which are was actually a really good thing now if a lot comes back to a farmer just vacates and that has happened as well then there is a whole process for application and that's all handled by ordinance for the county of now there's a whole application process a review process and a point system that's awarded in order to award the lots and we have had that happen  theater and as you know we own that historical building and the land and of course we have interested the theatre group to now a community theatre to manage it for us and then the last one is the cooler vacuum cooling plant which is the lessee and that is the maui county farm bureau and that's also for a dollar a year of state money to upgrade that facility so they've been able to do that with some state grants the latest is they're trying to bring it into compliance with the food safety laws because it  council are really just kind of cleaning up that application process and there was some revisions on the maximum amount of land that any one farmer could have and so it's just some things like that just some kind of cleanup things so that's the only thing really that you know would like to get that passed other than that i think all of our other leases  meyer course people represents the department of water supply actually employees if you wage that way they can get benefits much more cheaply health benefits worker's comp and that sort of thing and those cost savings are passed on to certainly heard what mr i had to say today and maybe it is worth the extra looking at i don't really know i don't know what it costs i don't know if there's a better way but i had asked the question i sighed when we were perspective please going share can remember thinking mark walker deputy director of finance the may two thousand and fifteen report you have before you shows that we are five or six pages that we do all of the building in collection for these agreements as well and so we work very closely with the departments on their like it's a ton of money for that we need to keep track of but certainly there are some very involved larger dollar amounts open to any questions you may have thank you so  that is expiring notice to the department just remind them that they have the least it will be expiring within the next fiscal year so they can start planning to either we need more find a new  walls as far as some of these one dollar a year leases it's inconsistent some of them are required to pay it up friend so if it's a twenty five year lease some of them are required to pay the twenty five dollars at the time of execution others are not written that way and so we actually have to build them one dollar every year and it's not even worth the paper it's written one hundred four get on we have to send them a dollar to have to process a one dollar in a sense we gave a thousand dollar grant don't know what the value of certain things that the county house are worth building in the middle of the park i don't know what the rental value of that would be for that type of use so all our to put a dollar amount on the amount  for that one using example was that was one of the reasons why it was kind of considered more of a market value type arrangement a lot of these other ones they are clearly grounds of real believe again i'm not familiar with each and every one of these leases on the sheet but a lot of them they are required to you know maintain their facility you know and take care of the surrounding area in general so i guess for the golf course so we're charging the folks who play golf for a significant amount of money compared to charges for use of other facilities so i think it will be interesting to  operation of the community centers and other other places as well necessarily to identify a much higher fee but i think it's important for people to understand what the actual cost is of operations  another example is the story in pools cost a significant amount of money to operate and maintain and those are expenses that we're not able to get away from  great to provide them a basis where there's a very small charge but at the same time we need to be thinking about whether if there is limited use like there is for the golf course with some of the user to the degree that they want to be a party to that we certainly can be but i agree with you that in looking at the insurance requirements they're working with risk makes a lot a lot of sense to make sure that not only will we be given the proper coverage but able to resolve this issue one way or the other make a final determination will we know we all need just trying to get the documentation that takes a while and of ownership is that before the any any party that is just  documentation is what we're working on right now and that is something that you know has never been done and we're trying to get documentation for every single part so that we actually  thank you very much we'll take a short recess and then finish up with beer forty nine members so let's take a short recess to ten thirty we are going to need to give them a call and he can be president within a few moments but the cheers team was just have some early discussion again on this some of our other standing committees are looking e do have quite a load to deal with and they're the unseen question is what the leverage they leverage more dollars by using our dollars to leverage more dollars for their program as well as employment and they're not caring the kind of liabilities we carry to be able to pursue  objective of for instance the homeless or mental health in that sort but they also bring in professionals that have to turn and we are now order non and some of the things if we work with the grantees and we look at their report reporting requirements are ensuring that the organization are using the funds accordingly e nonprofit i worked where we applied for a very small grant but there was the consistency of what was expected what the results are going to physical are that if you want to call it that i just went home this past thursday and department head center group there to have like a overview and a workshop you don't standardize the reporting requirements standardized and sometime we don't see that some of the grants are are funneled to the county and the feds the feds have different requirements but actually they're reporting requirements is really not that hard it's the application process you know so i don't know if things have changed so much but i think this is policymakers we need to be educated what it what it involves and what it includes for us to support the nonprofit but the same time be mindful of making sure that they're reaching the outcomes have have reached its purpose and i think that's kind of what i'm working with our department to see what are the outcomes so obvious you know i think they need more manpower thoughts fortunately we were able to discuss it a little bit earlier and i want to say that i think the water department does a really good job with their grants i like their process i like the way to monitor i hope in the next couple months to have a meeting again in regards to the grants i think we need to review them one more time to see what we were granting and is if it's enough in  late situation that we have here with invasive species but i want to second the motion miss camilla has said she certainly has an excellent grasp of what's going on with the non profits and i too want to see that you know i remember when i was a nonprofit director i used to get kind of huffy about the idea of somebody giving you money really nonprofits work very very hard to earn this money and there is a quid pro quo you know you get a grant but you have to produce something and you also have to enhance that because there's no we did anybody can pay for everything and so there's a lot of money that's leverage there's a lot of donations there's a lot of volunteer ism that goes into making a profit successful and i think we need to recognise that i also believe that there are nonprofits unfortunately who do not do what they're supposed to do we need to acknowledge that and therefore we need a system where we monitor and we take a good look at you know what you promised and what you did and when we find that there are problems it's our responsibility to take a look at it and say hey you better clean this up or you you know we're not going be able to fund you i think is fair because you know you you need to treat everybody the same and there needs to be a standard and it has to be upheld and so every nonprofit needs to be held to the same standard of this is where you got the money this is what you need to do and if you don't do it and you better get bit better or there's going to be a miss fair it's like everything else that we do invite if you know you have to do what you're supposed to do and it's obviously it's our job to do that monitoring and i think that the permeable human concerns can only do what they do they're very limited in terms of people that can focus on grants and it's a big job because they have a lot of grants i think we have a good piece of information that we could have asked mr reiman in africa was how many human service grants do they have i think it's probably in the hundreds so in order to come forward and i'm not sure share that information with there but you know we're talking about a lot of grants and so question we know that you stretch we know your department has a tremendous amount of things to take a look at do you feel that you have the ability to look at all these grants or is it a serious problem that we should take a look at we have to be full time people in our grants department and i will then lose comment as to how they are i think they do an excellent job in my neutering in keeping you know the  profits you know accountability very well done throwing well that's good i think it's important that you have the opportunity to actually go to their non profit and kind of what's going on because it is it's complicated and to try and differentiate from one service to another is also very difficult so i'm going to you know you have you will have the ability to go out i think that's really in part we've been going out to  it just to check on their compliance and and do the check on their performance of what they have to do with the amount of money that they received from the council so i think that's great you know one of the functions that i'd like to see coming out of grant monitoring is training keeping people up to date on what the requirements are training the board so that the boards know their responsibilities because everybody knows what they're concerns and housing department since there before any question mr worth really any questions i think  and with respect to doing a full audit i think the the appropriate way to approach this is that if the department or or the council feels that there are organizations that might need special attention that can be done through misc cruella as committee and i think that would be a more appropriate first run at something but then if the committee or the department feels that there are a number of organizations that might be appropriate to audit i would suggest we have select you know three or four or five organizations that might be problems or organizations for whom we don't feel that we're getting the bang for the buck that we might otherwise there would be i think appropriate to move into some sort of  a you know formal audit but i think to try to audit all of the nonprofits to get county funding across the board without some pre screening probably would be either very expensive or hard to hard to shape the audit so we get the kind of answers we're looking for i know what you say  bid independent audit report they have to do it anyway to maintain tax status with the i r s they have to do an annual audit anyway for their entity so my atheistic can be the initial document that we can review to fit as a filter and then focus on some more problematic entities but they don't tell you that a mood on the hill in the dish trick is non extensions of government in their view which is not a good thing in government so i guess i'm just giving you fair notice members that opinion on this conservative congress we may see less and less money  but it has been a huge problem for these community events like festivals of aloha we have even the sister cities foundation we've had this issue where we have all of these delegations coming in and members are having to use their own credit cards i've even had staff members fronting money for sister cities and you know i said no we just can't we can do that the staff can't do that you know it's not something that we should expect  so it has been difficult we do however have the ability and we are considering it for just a certain type of events to do quarterly disbursement so they would get  we would just say that you know you get twenty five percent of your friends you know and then it would be dispersed now that still doesn't help festivals because they're still there like a one month of that you  know but the problem is is that the grant is an executed and that was the biggest issue is that we could have received we could have given them money if the grant was executed but the grant came in a little late  takes you know sixty days minimum to get a grant executed so you know we need think of our first of our year started july first and then festivals in september so it's very difficult so i've had a thought about how to solve this issue and one of the ways as i could pick those events that are so impacted with the immediate like right after the fiscal year starts if we could come in our budget and ask for basically a double appropriation for one single year so that i could get them to write their grant far ahead and then we could actually get the grant would already be in place from the previous fiscal year and then they could spend it for festivals and this would it would be a one time only request to double it because you're actually having to give them the grant for the past and then you have to be given in the grant for the future and then we'll be back on a wednesday here thing so i thought that maybe a way to alleviate this problem by just getting them ahead of the game because they're we're always working backward and that's what's caused this stress on process worked you know explaining doubling up on one school year so we're actually behind one year i'm not quite follow they haven't so festival or had just happened and said basically september in early october and they don't have the grant yet because they just wrote the grant for fiscal year sixteen so it's going to go you mentioned and i'd have to look back on the date that we actually received it if i or internal review finds that it's inadequate they have to go back they have to revise then they have to we have to of course look at their budget then it goes to corp corporation council  typically corp council takes around you know two weeks to do their review then it can then it comes back to there's like ten steps to executing it grant it's not gave a very extensive grants workshop this year actually we've given grants workshops about every other year but we really revamped the grant a lot we've been working a lot more toward  performance measures and showing them how to measure their performance and how to do their dashboard of performance measures so we've been working really a lot on the grantees with that but yes we have an absolute application it's fillable it's online it's very straightforward but it still takes somebody that you know that will write the grant and get it to us because these are consiste i like the idea i mean you know and they did it we should pursue and see if it can be done if we can which structured within the upcoming budget and if we can is there another way to for us to address it so i'm happy to because only d grants are big can have any performance period that they want so you know it doesn't have to go beyond i mean it can go beyond the fiscal year but they just have to specify their performance period so for instance to give you a perfect example we find the fourth of july celebration and one high now well the fiscal year starts july first and there was no way they could ever get that grant in and done and so they rate that grand in the previous fiscal year which works fine so they always had their money available and so that's what i'm saying if we could get festivals of all just has always been behind and so if we could just get them i'm thinking about this timing issue you know this is not unusual it happens with a lot of government funding i have to say that we put up with this at m you know for many many years ever the holy office of economic opportunity did figure out how to do it and what they did was they had all of the paperwork done in the first with good today we had contracts and we had money right behind it so i'm jonah think about timing and i don't understand what how the people work works here but you know we have proposals we know more or less what people are going to try to do we discuss it in budget but the we wrap up the budget and we wrapped it up the last week of april yes it's not totally approved but it's there and it doesn't change very often as we know because all of the work that's gone into it before whe at the end you said dependent upon funding being available so i thought that july first if it's in the budget i don't see a problem with signing on july first having everything prepared in advance and this wouldn't have to be done for every grant but you know on these ones they were concerned about that happen right away and have to be funded later we are usually repeats and usually go to the same people so i don't know what people you know i don't know how it's done but i think we months and then the following year the grants would start and run our cycle from i believe october first to september thirtieth that was the idea but one year you'd have to fund it for eighteen months then the budget would kick in on july first and the agencies would still have from july for still october first to get all their applications and all their signatures in so it would be putting our grand schedule a little bit off timed with our budget schedule but a consideration yes ma'am i mean if you really want to get into saving innovation years ago i brought this up and i'll bring it up one more time consider time in my waning days here i had suggested a long time ago that we might want to look at the county fiscal year you know the fact that the county fiscal year starts on july first just the state is really a problem because we dare doing their budget when we're doing our budget and we have to finish our bu knowing what we're going to get from them a lot of times we don't want to know what they are waiting you know how much we have a how much today we don't have or who's paying for what and you know a long time ago when it was much simpler for me to say these things that's not easy to do and like chair has already said we have to change this in terms that and change everything else but it would have made life a lot easier if we had a different fiscal year destroy you know it there again would deem to be easier a application so we can appreciate the department's going out to educate and have their workshops and what have you and i appreciate you your consideration to have the conversation with the nonprofit you know what is it what is there i think when the first supply for the first application  it takes understanding the process and tina silver and i'm sorry french or another name like that most help form very very helpful with  july they need to get their applications by a certain date that would eliminate some of the challenges that the department has to deal with as well as the stressing of from the applicants or you know it has they have a responsibility to get all their receipts and they have the responsibility on the outcome and their performance all of that and if you are your honner or you're going in again for the same grant you should get it wired of course if you give the have to do the review of the grants but we also have to approve every single payment that goes out for those grants so it doesn't stop at just the execution it continues so the only way we can manage with one grants manager is to have a rolling application deadline we have all of the grants come due at one time we would be crushed we couldn't there's no way we could process so we have a system where all the line item proviso grants have to apply by december first this year and we move these dates up so they have to apply by december first and then everyone else who wants to just apply for general funding for projects have to apply by february first of this year and we moved everything by this year so that we could get finished with the process but that is the only way and then from the point that they apply they have the ability to set a performance period and so those people that have a manage their funds you know well and with other funding that they might have with federal or  state they can pick the performance period that makes the most sense for their organization so they can take a you know a year from the point of the application so that actually really helps us praed our workload across the entire year and that's the any other questions or i want to thank you for your grant manager she says she has a big job at any one time we have about one hundred and seven to and active grants you said earlier at least i took it really or that each of these grads must have an application each year is that correct it would seem to me that the majority of the contract it comes out of that application the majority of it can remain relatively consistent except for the change in performance measures or performance time frames and the amount of the grammar is there any way we can avoid for those that are multi year that we've been doing for years is there a way to avoid the actual application process that there's not just in your you know in your department but yeah i don't i don't see that there's any way we can avoid it because it's again we're on a fiscal year basis and where you know they're applying for that one fiscal year and also there are a lot of the grants do stay somewhat similar but there are changes and they can pay stuff course from previous years certain things but to be real honest with you that's one of the things that we check on because when they cut and paste and they forget and they put a year a previous year in there you know then you know we're looking at that and saying you know what guys you're asking for this kind of funding but you can think that and it's i mean that kind of makes us angry as grants managers you know so we look for those things and it's important that they have to update because there shouldn't be an entitlement or an expectation of these funds in my opinion they should have to earn it every single year and so by doing the performance measures and the dashboards and proving themselves every year otherwise i think you're just opening yourself up to a lackadaisical attitude that you know we're entitled to this money forever and i've tried to tell all of our grantees that that is not the case that anything can change the economy can change  the county could dive into a recession all of this is discretionary funding and it could go away and i say you have to be prepared and you have to be prepared to get your organization on firm footing that you could be maybe recollection my recollection was providing if we were to do it this year we would do a budget amendment that would add funds that would carry organization through october first how many organizations of the on the grounds that you deal with that category they would be for us it would only be those events that are you know crunched right up t year to perform now so they didn't have a money crunch you know it's just getting him on that cycle rather than trying to play catch up so i would say probably for us maybe there would be four or five at the mast  earlier year right but first festivals a little lower because it's a proviso because it's a line item you only given one line item many years so we're using it basically to give them after the fact so that's why i'm saying suggesting it would solve the situation by just giving him a double funding this next time so that we could just get a get there immediate grant out but then have them write the grant for the following year and then they wouldn't have to do that again but that would be probably the simplest and easiest way to solve it and i would say for like i said i would only have maybe three to five of tho about activities but then there's a whole bunch of other grants that have the same funding problem but they're not involved in this at all so i just want us to be sure that we're focusing in on everybody thank you thank you for that comment and