on the side doors and gather in the parking lot to the south with these doors locked please go back out through the lobby out for main entrance and around the corner into the law for a parking lot to the south albert and i will make sure the building is cleared and so and contracts or i would like to move the council make a specific finding that premature general public knowledge of labor relations agreements with employees collective barney and confidential attorneys like communications made for the purpose of providing financial legal service to the council would  inviting in kevin calling back to order here after our executive session and where i don't think we need to have a motion to reenter right ok item number four the agenda review or are there deletions or changes in order of the agenda items right i do have one under other business i would like us to discuss and request a kind of a long term request by a community member to look at the legal age for buying tobacco that came before us last fall number five we're going to convene the public hearing to receive comments related to the proposed charter amendments to be presented to south burlington voters for consideration during the city annual meeting scheduled for tuesday march fifth two thousand and nineteen and we are just a few minutes late but could someone please move enter the public hearing home of that second life on discussion and this is near and tory the public hearing for these articles charter change just to be consistent with my previous votes i'm to vote against going into the public meeting because i just don't support article three no that's not you that's not related in god to describe sleeping this language and i just want to be it's difficult to be consistent these things which i still don't support article three so i'm going to vote all right ok doesn't appear so well we can certainly as councillors i think reiterate with this is bringing to the voters and our positions on it i think that could be helpful so shall we start with a quick review of it and then we can kind of do a one by one quick review is there were committees that brought forward public projects there was a recreation center that has been a longstanding request from members of our recreation and parks committee there was a request from our bike and pet committee for more infrastructure and so there is a potential project to have a pedestrian cycling bridge over i eighty nine and there was a local business whose honor headed up a nonprofit that has been discussing having a performing arts and education center and they came forward to the council and of course we love these projects as an idea that it came down to how we are going to pay for them and we know that currently the school board is holding a master planning and visioning in order to determine future needs and how the public could potentially meet those needs in order to keep our schools up to date which for the school board means that they need to go to the voters and look to property taxes as a source of revenue because the projects that were identified which i just listed  would benefit the region not just south burlington city staff came up with the idea of adding for a temporary time one percent to the local option tax and we currently have a one percent local option tax in addition to the six percent sales tax nine percent now is a ten percent alcoholic beverages in restaurants and rooms and meals is one percent if i remember correctly  and so that was out there for public discussion we decided that we would go forward to let it be publicly discussed and last time that we had a meeting there were three of us who voted to move forward that was after our charter review committee came forward with recommended language for that charter change it would require a charter change and it was also the charter review committee that came forward with new language short term car rental tax currently there is i believe it's a nine percent tax that the state imposes on short term car rental nothing on trucks or trailers and currently there is no tax on that there are other communities in the north east and throughout the country i believe there are fifteen cities that impose a short term rental car tax and generally a half a cent a half a percent is this seems to be a reasonable that was then brought before us we decided to put it out to the public and in the mean interest we had our economic development committee review that short term rental car tax and they came forward again with more specifics of the language again indorsing it and  giving us more reason to give the public a say so by the majority and it was three to one a pass through to one with one member being out of town who supported it but she couldn't be here to vote on it we are trying to now put this up for public debate for the public to discuss the merits of it and to determine our town meeting day in march whether or not they there is merit to these two town says the short term rental car rental tax would give us with that a half percent would give us funds to do improvements to our highway infrastructure as well as fundaments the services and those were the two services that the economic development committee had identified i forgot to say that earlier if the public passes this these two charter amendments and it's like our constitution for how the city is is organized city government is organized it would go on to the legislature and the legislature will probably take a while and there is no guarantee that it would be  finalized in the session or that it would be passed either one of of those items so another impetus was to give the legislature some time to get to get the ball rolling which is why three members voted to put it out there as a general overview is that sufficient or do you know it's got things to add to it i think the most important piece is that this is just to put this in front of our voters to get a has come back to the city now we have to identify projects projects have to be approved it's a long process but you know if we get we get approval from the voters in the city then we go to the legislature and and but the legislature having been there for many years is very very reluctant to give up its taxing power to municipalities it does not like to do that and with the pressures on the state budget every year be very hard sell could  it could it could it work sure but it could just as easily not be approved by the legislature but we don't even know if it's worth getting there until we if we can get there until we know what the voters of the city feel and the voters of the city you know  ox survey results you know the top priorities i think appropriately are things like affordable housing and preservation of open land is very very important to the voters of the city and good roads we should put up our tolls and get all those folks into the city from south of us every single day but by you know recreation facility is about a thin out of out of ten people you know fifty three percent i think of the people said yeah we love this idea but that's not quite as important to us is some of these other things and says it's all about money heck if we had a bottomless pocket we could do it all and be happy about it so it just to get an idea what the voters think you know and i think that doesn't necessarily reflect all of our own views either i mean tom voted against it because he doesn't think that he can tell them when yeah yeah go ahead would chime in on three things so as clarify remarks in your the public doesn't the committee for the performing arts center was a committee or did we charge them with no not at all you would in fact do we want a thing really just to be clear did we did we put money down i thought i heard something about sixty five hundred dollars at one time to do the feasibility studies supported the feasibility study ok financially ok so this is not a committee of the council so it was not a committee for the performing arts center just making clear on that and then recommended language from the city charter did they endorse the language did tax when a car tax they endorse the notion of a rough proportionality to impact and that's one of the reasons it came down and then we discovered a math error came down  further to the go so far as to say we the city charter committee support this going to the voters or did they just support the language to be didn't see that it's their view of our and they didn't see that as their role because they said that they view themselves as a as a  the yeah and the council asked them to go in and put this together and they did not they did not have a official comment on whether or not they thought it was a good idea lastly economic development committee  endorse this language or they endorse the rational fee and the proportionality they did not endorse the local option tax at this time they felt they needed more information yes b v a all the hands went up when they were asked you know who do you think this will negatively effect your business and this is a little absent an extra one percent i would say everybody's hand but but i surprising you that it was at least i thought it was a majority but you know i don't know what businesses they have whether they were retailers i think the question was the question tim will this affect your business as opposed to do you think this will hurt our i think it was interpreted as it will it negatively impact your business yet and so the ones who had who were would be affected with sales tax or local rooms and meals would yeah there are people who had their hands  p last thing i want to drag this out we can move this forward i just want to make clear that the other reasons why i'm not supporting of this is just the performing arts center is so new to the city discussions it wasn't even on the baltics poll last november so i just i just want to say the recreation center has been in the works for i want to say decades now and i think it falls within the scope of the essential services that we have been providing that we continue to provide and i'm just concerned with the trajectory the performing arts center i love the arts and i want more on the story i'm to be that space as a resident of this region i just am very has a tenant skeptical of getting the city of south burlington in the performing arts business so that's why i can support it so that i don't need to rehash all of my statements on my facebook page i stated  of time but i would just say all of those points still rest as to why i can't support article three i do support article four so in your summary mention the three to one vote i just want to say i did vote for article four i think taxing the rental car companies seventy five percent of which are coming out of our city these roads don't pay for themselves so i fully support article four and if there's a signed vote yes article for you can put it in my yard there's one point we should make is that these projects aren't a package it's one by one by one a rec center doesn't mean an art center doesn't mean a bridge across the interstate they're all separate at the public vote on and tom and i you know share the concern about the arts center we both love the arts but the skating arena's were built with no city money at all and then we gave the arenas to the city and we manage i say we because i've been on the board since day one we manage it as a not for profit entity and i've been very successful in my mind  an art center quite possibly should proceed with that same public private partnership but where were the advocates find the money to build the place and so there's you know but it is it to one by one whatever comes up and the ones that are in front of us now the examples are those that we mention i decide clarify that i'll pipe in just a couple things our annual budget for the city covers things like salaries health care pension contributions to other retirement funds expenses the city has for commodities like you know that the wa plants need special chemicals to pre treat things before they're discharged right to achieve their low phosphorus rates one of the lowest in the state and and we have a capital improvement plan that's part of that budget that every department furnishes to us every year to look at which says that you know in two years we're going to do a firetruck in three years we're going to need a significant upgrade to one of the wastewater treatment plants as it has been done in twenty years whatever so that's part of the annual budget system we have this tip district which enables us to take part of the cost of public infrastructure and devote some of the new property tax revenue that would have gone to the state for the education fund to be dedicated to pay down the debt there that's w happen a part of the cost of of the library but then we have this other bag of new projects that we think would be good investments for the future of the city so the question is where does that money come from well the choices we could either just give it to the property tax payers and say we're going to increase your property taxes by x to pay for the debt for these things going out twenty years and we occasionally do that we're a week usually put in front of the voters a bond saying we need one point eight million dollars to build a new radio tower move all the antennas off the water tank and  put in a new tower and give you radios for everybody in public safety because it has to be done right or we say we want to banville it a penny for passenger to rehabilitate and create new connections in all the past in the city so people can can bike and walk  jogging places they couldn't before or do more safely where they they were doing it to where the doing today but this other bag of things that we would like to do such as the recreation center which has been on the it's been on the docket for a long time a long time and there are a lot of people that really want to see an indoor place where they can they can have recreation and it's there currently isn't a a pass through you know payment structure for it can capital improvement plan like the tiff district has it's out that if district at this point we're going to get the money the possibility of using a one percent sales tax and or a one percent rooms and meals and  gives us that ability but it comes with a lot of gateways right so the first gateway is just past the voters so the first thing you do is you ask the voters hey do you want to pay an extra one percent and here's what we used for abuse for specific things and by the way you have to pass those bond issues as well so we're going to ask if you want to can you suffer it and be we you suffer the things that are going to come they're going to ask you to pay for it with we also have to ask the legislature to pass it we also have to have to make the ask the you know hope the governor will sign it as well so it's got to go committee you know senate and house and then governor so there are a lot of hurdles and by the way we don't get the full percent we get seventy percent of that one percent and the state gets its thirty so maybe they'll look on that favorably because they're looking to get more money and so just keep in mind that burlington's at ten percent rooms and meals now we would be matching that so if you if you go out you know and you have meals in burlington versus here you might not even noticed and so that's that question about a recreation center if it services more than just our city and it services the whole county you know because it it ends up being leased out space for different programs then here's an opportunity to share that cost among not just the that the you know the people that live in the city who are going to be buying things as even people to come to our city and buy things as well so i think putting this up to the taxpayers is the best way to vet it now here's my fear bartsch isn't always the biggest turnout of all the elections right the biggest turnout is like presidential elections back in november we had a huge turnout right so march is usually smaller and sometimes people that are highly biased towards getting their projects pushed through will get a lot of people to go out and vote and so you might not see a fair representation of who comes out to vote in march that's a fear right so the question is you get equal representation across the whole population of voters in the in the city to give you an honest answer were they were willing to tolerate a one percent you won't know that two you actually have the election so that's why we're having the second public hearing unfortunately there are a lot of people in the audience so either they don't know or i guess they don't care which case we'll find out in march where that if they would like  to have the one percent to vote short short story is these investments in the future will keep the city economically progressive and also help us achieve a higher quality of life i think but each unit itself will have to be approved by the by the taxpayers as well so if it's a rec center it's going to go that's of voters they're going to have to say yay or nay and there will be a price tag associated with it and we'll be able to see how much the one percent if it's you know pass at that point will will help i just want to say that everything you just said was very reasonable and i support i just want to add a clarifying remark so even mention how rooms and meals are now be parity with burlington i two in my statement which you can refer back to support that as well but what this also does which i don't support and why i'm so against it is it will raise the local sales tax to be the highest in the state and i just it's a regressive tax and i'm going to be here for the next twenty five thirty years and i'd just not i don't want to spend one percent more in everything i buy and sell girly so that's why i'm seven percent today they're going to dive right in because there isn't a community out there that doesn't want or need extra money to fund important projects that they think are assets to their community you know i mean i can't i'm not making a prediction i just say that you know local action tax i was very much like my counselor you know colleague here to my left time very concerned that we were setting a precedent and that i heard from a legislator that in fact other communities are taking a dive we're not the only one taking the dive to go for another one percent on the local option tax and that was something i took into consideration the other thing i took into consideration and that led me swayed me to put this before the public was that i truly felt that the case was made and these were community members and committee members who came here before us and who told us how these projects would benefit not only the local community here in south carolina today but the region that these sports facilities would be used regionally and not only by children but also by adult they told us the recreation programs are starved for space that the school spaces where we traditionally have gone are more and more you know taken first for school activities and so they truly do not have a space which is handicapping them i agree with dave and this was also a community member who made the point that if we were to enter into a public private partnership with a performing arts center that there should be a hefty private investment in that and i agree with that yet i do also believe that the flynn which is a very different space much larger than what the performing arts center that's being studied here for south burlington is has been an economic boon for burlington if you go out to see a play you tend to go out to dinner you tend to go you know go at least go window shopping if not actually enter into a store and actually purchase something so i do see it as an economic development possibility for the the pedestrian bridge that too seems to me to to really serve a need that would also lead to more movement from you to go into burlington so i do see it as a really useful infrastructure project i think that pushed me in addition to the notion that there were other people coming other communities coming forward with an additional one percent the other thing i think that that pushed me was i really think that  this is this is a time in south burlington when our city center is being developed and i think that you know there's there's something to building up you know and what is being you know taken you know we've taken initiative on the spot are and i think that there is a synergy that's happening right now and by creating more energy is something that would i think really you know only encourage the success of our future city center so i think all that just kind of came together and i do believe that it is for economic development though it will be an additional expense for families and households and and for businesses i think in the long run it will really lead to economic development here in this region and in our city and we are constantly seeking to build that tax base i think economic our economic tax base has been in need of growing for a long time i've heard fellow councilors who now are no longer sitting here but who have long stated that we need to grow our economic tax base and i also believe that it's  quality of life issue i think it's performing arts center and recreation these are things that that are life vital source in our communities and we need good roads to so i'm certainly not abandoning that and that's why the short term car rental which if you know you do the math you you have a car for thirty dollars a day that's fifteen cents per day that someone would be paying towards our highway infrastructure which is a modest contribution i think that i did not i did not hesitate but i will say that i really had to debate with myself on the local option tax and at the end of the day i felt that it was worth you know taking that step and seeing what the blick thought about it making the case letting the questions letting there be push back letting us really think about it this is not something to enter into lightly and as you heard it won't be entered into lightly there are several hurdles and even if it does get through the legislature and it gets passed for section d the current language of article three where it says the such as we talked about last time forward voter approved voter approved up for the construction improvement of municipal facilities and infrastructure that are intended to encourage economic growth and quality of life in the city and region such as and then it goes on the list before my question is if it's five years from now or within the time period of three years from now something terrible happens and we need a new sewer facility could we justify that  generate economic growth and quality of life and fold into this a project outside the scope of these four or let's say imagine a pool of some sort where those types of projects possibly be justifiable or are we scope to limited to these for alexy attorney yeah it would seem to be a question for the council at that time and council has pretty broad discretion under the way it's written under this to kind of make those determinations and i think the voters as well when the when that project came forward  you know maybe a possibility would be to to include that you know that this was the local option tax could be expanded as part of a couple of options but i do think the council is pretty broad discretion i was going to buy some no one article three signs but now isn't a money fund a pool just goals a lot of it might have made but what's important is that when the ballot item for a project hits the voters it should say in there this triggers the beginning of the one percent sales tax and reams of real estate it should say there clearly are in a kind of wish that let's say that we get all the way through this process and there is a project and it does pass that when they get their receipt at the store it says six percent state sales tax one percent local option sales six point seven percent recreation building tax you know and the point three goes to the state because of that but you know it's like i can rely no but you know it's like when you when you get your yearly receive you know it just says tax you know where it goes but if the specifically for a thing you said in three q for the for the twenty eight cents that you just contributed to you know the  and just also the sunset you would get it once and if it gets too triggered we would have ten years in order for further projects to be put forward to the voters and once that ten year window closes no more projects can be put before the voters and it will only say in effect entail that the bond is paid off so it would sunset in that way risk case thirty five years probably really thirty years or we're glad you're here to hear i think that's that's what we would hope that our community would do we hope that there are many more like you out there and t v land we're also going to be having a public hearing o second public hearing on this issue in a week and we encourage you to speak to people you know let them know that there is another chance to weigh in on this and let them know that if they don't want to leave the something like a multiplicity we were i know that somewhere i think that's number four that nobody's talked about but that would be something that would benefit people coming into this area and paying the tax not just your local community paying the tax but getting t come i'm leave a lot of hotels in the area with a lot of restaurants and not just getting the community to come but getting people from the outside to come to south burlington to stay in our hotels and restaurants would be beneficial so the nonprofit committee  together the proposal for the performing arts center they also presented information and data on how many visitors would be coming into into our city and we will hurt with higher ground leaving we do well with higher ground being in this community as i think people may know that and i don't know how much longer they're planning on staying but certainly a facility like that would benefit south burlington and and in reno or  recreation space at all but would that bring in people from outside for one thing or another maybe yes maybe no certainly it wouldn't hurt the cause and then the bridge over the interstate the idea there is to connect that part of south burlington burlington and campus to this side because as you all know and we all know all too well that massive bunch of pavement between the university and in about where you are is horrendous and the students don't want to nobody wants to navigate it and to me that's a top priority but then it comes down to how to pay for all this stuff and and so see what the rest of the folks think and i hate taxes on the other hand you see the wonderful benefits that we all might derive by being able to do these things there's just no other place to get money  you know unless we can magically think of some and i think i think it was you just said meghan there are a number of other communities that are looking at the same thing and that's going to make the legislature even more reluctant to let local communities start to start to have all these option taxes because it diminishes the taxing power of the state and they don't like to do that so it's kind of an experiment we'll see where it goes well and had the opposite viewpoint she thought it would actually make it easier for us to state our case so what that the others are looking for the same thing well yeah i don't know in real life you know she's been there you know she's there a lot longer than i was and realize the legislature does not like to give up its taxing authority and so it depends who votes for what so this as i said this is kind of an experiment will see see where we go with it and we have a long ways to go when you have a lot more input coming down you know along the way before anything happened right and also something that you  questioned led to us understanding that the language also allows us to choose if we chose to only do sales tax and not reduce the meals for instance depending on the project that would be within our power also to really specific lee identify which which taxing mechanisms would be triggered it's curious while you're sitting there what percentage of your of your windjammer business is in state that happen it doesn't matter whether you think the baseball club is said one more year two more years near done there anyway so it's either get figured out or they're gone so that's pretty serious yeah but that too takes money and location could finally number eight consider impossibly ratify a collective bargaining agreement between the city of south burlington and the self growing to the firefighters association we had an executive session earlier tonight in order to discuss the contract and we have all seen it and been able to ask questions because of their their delicate nature we did find closed doors are repaired to vote on this specific language ok all those in favor please say i i believe that was unanimous thank you very much item number nine we have other business i just had one item alex mchenry resident also a school board member but as a resident came forward last fall to increase the age for purchasing tobacco products and products and this has been passed in burlington and he was hoping that we could along with burlington put some more pressure especially on local senators to age he changed and we just heard from kevin tonight that the ballots are going to be sent out on wednesday so i don't even know days so that may be the one the one hurdle that we have you're sure to maybe that would i mean there would be no other time to get it in within that within so you're sure we can't do this right legislative breakfast we have it so that is that is upcoming and that would be a moment for us to advocate for something we voted for in chambers and reaching out specifically to senators i think that this is not an issue in the house as much as that is in the senate i see what you're saying we don't form a letters like that before if we as a city council unanimously vote to send a letter to our legislators why don't we do that  what are they considering that is or a bill in front of the of the i think there has been in the past and it is stalled in the senate if i recall correctly right well we can request that there be a bill introduced as well and we do have one senator from south burlington who sent me an e mail last week and said let me know what i can do so what the heck right so should we pass as a city council something to this effect i mean if we are already voted we could if we could have just a letter we give you know that authority to kevin to draft something i think that the movement would be disappointed because the voters didn't get a chance to weigh in and show how much they support you know raising i know what they would how they would vote but i probably pretty similar to burlington's voting burlington you know supported it i mean the state's going to go ahead in tax haven products pretty soon here right it's in their crosshairs right now pretty heavily yeah yeah recognizing that it's just another vehicle for nick nicotine delivery so right and higher than cigarettes it's pretty  kevin you need more directive to pull together a resolution for us is that a draft you want to come up with a look and find out what was available before a find out when the vote was what was available before if it is a resolution if not to work with  find a way to work with somebody to draw something together and send it out to you and then present it to you on the fourth and then you can get somebody respond to this guy alex  all feel the same way it's unfortunate that we couldn't get it on the ballot but we've got to do is legal and we'll make every effort to let the legislature know our intent and then get legislation passed that would do just what you suggested street and probably spears well they did in the middle of a white out snow storm so we appreciate that there have been reports of damage from the moon crater that's next to john wilkins house and dorset and several people have hit the city myself i want to say on that point i heard a resident made a comment on friday morning about craters on speer street and then within two hours the p w is out there filling the potholes so i know they're working hard thank you guys very much for everything you're doing out ther i'm just on an interesting note before we run out of here i took a class to green mountain power last wednesday evening on our field trip and green mountain students were talking with green mountain power about the impact of weather and weather changes on the power company and their responsibilities and they said it's not our imagination these cyclical warm you know it rains then it freezes solid then it cracks the pavement or brings down power poles wind events are five four times what they were several years ago and this is all real and i think at some point we probably have probably all communities trying to figure out well as a public works department how they deal with these with these increasing cycles because it's wreaking havoc on our roads statewide and it's much worse than it ever was before is not likely to go away according to the folks green mountain power who study the weather long term so you know what folks are experiencing is is definitely pain and somehow we're going to have to over a pretty short period of time figure out how to manage that because we can't control whether it's very interesting i mean you think last week we had the heavy rain