good morning may please the court my name is susan inhale and i represent the petitioner mr ass and say he is from a family that is of a part a session nationality that was living in georgia and georgia has had two notable extremely violent conflicts over the breakaway region of south a such a and as a result there is extreme a nationalistic the immense against people of a session nationality in our case the judge found that he did suffer harm and that it was on account of his nationality but the judge determined the b i upheld that it didn't amount to past persecution substantial evidence shows to the contrary though mr ass needs say has basically grown up in an environment of especially leading up in the last year year and a half prior to the second conflict that happened in two thousand and eight he suffered virtually every type of persecution every type of harm that this court has ever encountered when he was a child he was separated by figures of authority his teachers and he was called dirty separate from the other students they didn't want to be around him because of this he'd step aside and not to pursue any further studies and felt discouraged his family was threatened numerous times how is it that people are identified as being assertions testified that it was just known in his community and he said partially from the last name as well but his last name was his father's session on his mother's side yes but he said and i understand that the prior passports used to require an indication of this but that or a national id card or something that would have  d about i would somebody have known there was not a national id card but the judge to determine and the b i upheld that harm occurred on account of his nationality so i don't believe that's an issue at this point it was her also a finding control this and to go to the police he did go to the police he was he went to the police two to three times at least and was always told to leave the country and the judge determined as well that the government was unable or unwilling to control the people that were but i gather you have a job he got a job but then he lost the job because his coworkers didn't want to work with a thirty hour session his mother also lost her job his father lost his job his father was just threatened and the wife mr essence his mother did receive a phone call afterwards saying you got what you deserved referencing the father's death so that no no no indication that the caller had any had any connection to the murder right but it does go into the it's somebody piling on the person yes the persecutory environment he was beaten and he was found to be a credible witness and he has statements in the record and they did describe in some painful detail that he was in extreme pain in his beatings he was strangled he described constantly having this what was what were the words that he used a  page three hundred one of the most helplessness is one of the most destructive senses one can ever have he had frequent depressions and nervous breakdowns this was all during his time that he was living in georgia so these incidences were increasing they were getting more and more violent they were specifically targeted against him he did not seek out medical attention because he said he was humiliated and no one can blame him whenever they would go to the police the police either would pretend they weren't hearing his claim or they would directly say just leave the country and because it was a nationalistic conflict that was the intent of basically the georgian society in general was to get the sessions to leave georgian territory no one cared about them they want to georgians i'm sorry they wanted our sessions to leave the motherland he said that he was scared to leave his home again he wasn't able to work  after he left right before the second conflict erupted in erupted into violence and after that his mother and brother went into hiding and he's never heard from them it would be presume that if they were safe that they would be able to make contact with him of course we don't know what happened to them but it doesn't sound good human if we all together this is a very persecutory environment the judge said it was a close call substantial evidence here pushes it over the top especially given the case law that both the judge and the b i l relied upon as detailed in petitioners opening brief those cases don't really support a finding that this was not persecuted so what's the standard of review for us we have to find the evidence can tell the contrary conclusion yes is that different from finding that substantial evidence which would support a contrary decision i think i am sorry i guess that semantics but yes substantial evidence would compel that there is past persecution here given all of these incidents the real problem is that persecution is a legal standard it's not exactly a fact right  it's the infliction of suffering or harm i'm sorry yes your honor the infliction of suffering or harm to punish and how much i mean that's what we just had the conversation the prior case it's quite it's a how much question that no one's doubting that he just suffer some harm and yes i was saying in the other case we've been somewhat interesting to about how much is how much now and strikes me that in this case those have more incidence for example than the other case from the ones that are actually cited the difference is that it wasn't the government there seems to be some flavor in the cases that that makes some difference as joe whether there's persecution maybe because it's not the same people or something in other ways and then maybe for the same reason but the people perpetrating these various there's no unity as to who's perpetrating these various incidents well yes the evidence shows there is a unity your honor he describes an environment of living where your neighbors your coworkers everyone around you has had a relative that was killed in the one thousand nine hundred two incident now we're going to have another two thousand and eight incident as well and they're seeking they want to target him and his family to avenge their dead relatives and the b i a and the judge both upheld the finding that the government is not going to do anything to control it if we were to if we were to send us back government would be able to address questions as to whether he could be safely located elsewhere in the country they would have to present individualized evidence demonstrating that he could safely go back yeah and presumably at that point does th his ethnicity yes it was the neighbor said that his brother had died in the previous war and seeking to avenge the death and what so and seeking to avenge the death  and it was clear that because this guy was a yes yes he said he constantly feared everybody his neighbors everyone was i think so the christmas ok then there were three individuals in two thousand and seven later then there was this attack by three people and yes josh payne it was strangled and then there was a drunk neighbor yes and then it was the fact that his father fear of harm so left yes and all three little odd because the father wasn't the one who was a sation right correct but he was accused at good morning your honor may please the court my name is co save maureen i represent the united states in this case this petition for review should be denied for two reasons first the evidence does not compel the conclusion that  persecution it really pales in comparison so there was also a lifetime of harassment and discrimination and threats against the petitioner in that case that if you did not leave kosovo that he would be killed and on one occasion he was assaulted resulting in extensive facial bruising as well as two broken ribs and this court held that that did not compel a finding of persecution that's not to say cannot be persecution but this court is constrained by its standard of review in this case also there has been apparently a lifetime of harassment and discrimination there's also been a physical assault but that's where the similarities and because the petitioner in this case suffered unfortunately a black no your honor there were two incidents of physical violence one of which resulted in a black eye and a bloody lip and the other of which did not result in any injury and the petitioner stated in his testimony that he just left the drunk neighbor was angry that his brother had been killed in the conflict and he started kicking him and the petitioner testified that he just left so really what we have here are two incidents of assault one of which resulted in two physical assault which resulted in relatively minor injuries again this was i believe a bruising and also a bloody lip but that was there was a special factor in that case in the sense that the petitioner was prevented from practicing her religion and we don't have that kind of special circumstance in this case so the evidence just does not compel a conclusion that the petitioner suffered past persecution in this case on the misfortune or the block where a certain one of the lay hands on the person to injure them in this case he suffered numerous nervous breakdowns depression and feeling of helplessness that psychological