one of the reasons we're asking for a certification yes the posting of a bond which is set forth under c p hello the criminal procedure logs to it new york is the bringing of a bond to the court having  were executed in the contract and execute is not ambiguous but it doesn't relate to the criminal procedure that's the problem and the greater problem is that the greater issue is that there is no divergence between terms in the contract the only mind in the sand term regarding premiums in this contract comes in the fifth aircraft which says that if a bond has been provided to court and if the court signed and if the court release is that the defendant on bail either after hearing or not after hearing and if he's out on liberty and if the company brings him back to court then they have to get some money but they have on current proof the mere fact that the contract says that there are on earned premiums under that situation in which all of the other things after what happened before that is he's been to hearing that he's been released indicates that the defendant's position that they've earned their entire premium by the mere posting of a piece of paper cannot square with the terms of how to have another  that would imply some relationship between the bail bond agent and insurance company in a split of the fee between well there is no information about the the home of the general council insurance commission at a statutory amount there is no partner there is no burning floor no matter however how much hard work he does there's no earning floor and they're not even allowed to charge you pay the cream and premiums are there's only one term in the contract and that says that to be premium remains on earned until and what it must mean is until exoneration that is surrender after a judgment own a conviction on its own aeration the bill for other reasons and therefore since the company can surrender him to court at any time after all these events are taking place in which they say they've already burned a hundred percent of their bonds create what is it a form that's filled out the record indicates that this was their form created by them and it was contrary to other forms i think the court exhibit c was another be posted with the court executed by the judge were done so and that's what triggered the surety hearing here now our position is and i don't want to bite off more than i can show you here but our position is that the contract is  intertwining statutes of the c p o as well as the insurance law provide that the the bail bond premium is earned upon the posting of the bare wood with the court judge berman found that the statutes were not that we're not going to allow a bail bondsman to charge for individual services cost expenses whatever we're going to set up a flat fee here and that's what he gets whatever the circumstances may be a bond industry doesn't care about having use he's done done well by that he has one unhappy customer in this case and the record reflects their relationship throughout which took over a year before the customer asked for the money back t scene and off they did you know the bond was signed off on except it a cut slip was issued indicating that sufficient bail was produced the bond was there the only thing holding up the release of the defendant with the bond expenses but let me let me move back to the do it it is it took them they had to even testimony of the plaintiff there were hours upon hours of of meetings there were numerous who can  are two there were two attorneys in this case but i don't want to lose sight of the fact of a few things here one is that the posting of the bond and the purpose of a bond or stand simply is to have the defendant released from jail there are other different in the sense if in the sense that he can go to the ins and ask for bail no but in removal because he will be told you gotta stay  yes it's different in the sense that there's no further work to be done for the bail bondsmen when they did when the defendant goes to an escort words there is work to be done in preparing for the surety hearing and collecting the documents  terms of the state law under the terms of the contract yes and i don't know whether it's analogous or not but you know attorneys will work on contingency fees and personal range reactions to criminal cases where attorneys will take a flat fee up front to represent the case to them that this was what was at stake here and this was the course that it was going to be to get to a surety hearing you think would be useful to some phone something new and i see my time for now if i can answer but the question would be i did not but i'll tell you what i think would happen because you have chief you have a chief judge on the new york state a court of appeals who was the district attorney of westchester county law and statutory language to say when a when the posting is effective and it contradicts the the contract itself contradicts their position that as of a date prior to his release the entire fee was for since it can't square with the on current premium paragraph of the contract which says long after that event has taken it's very difficult to get traction when you have returns and i apologize for that it should be premium because premiums the only term that is correct we used in the setting premium a hundred twenty thousand three hundred two hundred sixty dollars which interestingly was overcharged in the an initial payment to the by the client who's overcharged by some three hundred dollars and that three hundred dollars was reflected to be returned which was phone is the guess i would guess that there would have to be in the sense that it would be analysis of how much time was spent there would have to be some sort of