this is now time for public comment your public but you're not here for that agenda so entertaining or the public hears we're going to move on from public comment on sharing more in town clerk sixty thousand it may turn out hopefully that our truck is not one hundred sixty thousand a few thousand less than that which we will apply the excess monies to the principal payment at that time when we're finally done with the cost the truck cost the truck is still so to discuss confidential trying to claim communications which were made for the purpose of providing professional legal services to the select board and that we find specifically their premature public knowledge of and some which i may have voted on could you give the names of the properties and then i will not participate  possible legal matter a reason i mean there's why pm is asking is if cameron looking at the reasons why we can as a body go into executive session that's what we have right here one is for contracts that's so what the listers are asking the select will is there are two appeals that we disagree with today and we would like to select board to give us seventy dollars for each appeal to go to could you see them both second but i have  just above the six fifty item has to do with the sidewalk just for clarity my friendly amendment except unpleasant but with the elimination of the dogleg in the area comment for example only on whether there are adequate drainage provisions in the subdivision application of the or b so that the example is of a subdivision but i just read into this a little bit saying wondering you know we don't know the road for  cause he's a guy who knows and and get his advice on things like that based on his experience and so on the difficulty is  it in that motion that i quoted later here where they made a motion to ignore what we say and life as an expert and that's in a comfortable position for that and you don't feel getting back to what i was saying though that this can narrow limits what we're not trying to limit what the foreman can do basically on when he put in the new corporate on pleasant valley road widen my opinions because i was his expert i would go in and testify for the legislature as to my views on things but they didn't ever relied on me as an expert and never said we have legal advice from peterson the relying on that they wouldn't do that   being asked for opinions and views it's just coincidence that you're hearing me but on this stuff as you can tell involves you and tom you're here if you're going to be involved in a letter that we're sending  that per of your work has been the many hours you spent in support of the development of new board attaches a memo to the rb that concerns and parker appearances there and what your role is very briefly being asked by the d r b to be an expert put you and in quotes and the town in a difficult position you may be asked to give opinions on matters that are really for the rb or for hydrologists or civil engineers or you may volunteer such opinions in an effort to be helpful there's no need to repeat what's in the attached memo to the d r be the point is that giving opinions the d o b on legal or engineering matters in your rules of the road form and such as whether a road designs adequate for its purpose or that a drainage design can handle run off is both unwinds and outside your job description you have any questions kills please feel free to ask again and thank you for all your good work and i just want to that's the end of that letter i want to be clear that this is  way a reprimand of what you've done because you're only doing what's been done in the past ok so you've been in some cases doing the right thing because you didn't know any other what what we're finding recently  with all the litigation that we're running into in more litigious society that we have that we need to be very very careful of all the decisions we make in this town and pine grove is again one example that were cited here in a very good example where the prior foreman and again no fault of that foreman was relied on for specific mention and a poor relied heavily on information and yet now there's a problem with it so what we're trying to do here is actually protect you and the town from not putting you in a position of basically a civil engineer and if we need expert opinion we need to hire expert opinion being a civil engineer or or someone else like that or i college or any of those things so it's not fair to go to you and say hey way in on this because what we don't want to happen is two years from now we are in another court case in a meet you said it was all going to work out fine so again it's not to say you've done anything wrong it's just to keep us all out of trouble in the future is that make some sense to you and again it doesn't mean that you're don't have a ton of knowledge that you're you're not an expert in your field and you  is no way meant to be any kind of criticism yeah it's just their decision like this was in the july minutes to cast you as an expert witness and i immediately mandatory by the employee to sign up it's not but the only thing that it does do it was thought for me a little basic in a sense for supporting this offer and now they're all intelligent people and they can make their own intelligent decisions but we are supporting one group and a certain type of insurance vs not another type of insurance so i'm just but your point is a good one and i think somewhere in my past i've seen things from employers saying we have no way indorse this and we're you to inform yourself and you may wish to look at other opportunities than otherwise undercut the person's they're going well the lot of one really well we're still on budget found a lot of rot out front again especially by the door a little more than they thought i think but still staying on budget paying stand right on top of three year signature saying yes we like what you do and we're all signed on for three years the i was nervous about what the financial about three years and she didn't have a have a conversation which i think you may have we were here last year and you know so there are great people they do work to do our job very well but she also recognizes that getting people up for twenty percent  in town meeting day so i don't want to hear their own troopers don't hold your we're sending contract but for an amount it's a little odd because we are signing a contract for amount that we actually can't prove at least not  all right that sounds good everybody yeah ok great all right boom is seven sixteen the guy means are you guys waiting on anybody else if we start seven sixteen or seven twenty important is it is it you guys ok ok let's go to the gaiman access permit application for north underhill station road number seventy three thousand feet that way the road is that the road is as a forty mile speed sign you can enter whatever just a second so i think generally that's that's where we came to last time put some thought into you guys have you know fifteen feet protects the front of your car did did you measure it from fifteen feet inside yes ok and what did you get that's the three thirty six is from fifteen feet inside ok here's what i hear my thoughts on this and if you'll be able to put it into motion these seem to me to be unique circumstances because there are two existing reluctant to depart from nonetheless does allow the slick board to grant a waiver of a particular design standard and i would propose that indy's unique circumstances were there already to driveways when any side of the proposed driveway which already subject to the same or worse sight line issues that it would be inconsistent to then require more to deny this driveway because they can actually see a little better than the people on seventy one of them to the station so what i would do once i get my mind around the words is propose a motion that in these particular unique circumstances and not as a precedent for doing anything else anywhere else we waive the sightline requirements to be seventy one so long as a sight line to the right extinct number seventy three be maintained at least three hundred thirty six feet measured from a point fifteen feet inside the driveway from the edge of the travel way on north underhill station that's almost a motion right there if you get that side and that this decision is made should not be taken as a precedent for any other decision but is limited to the particular facts of this particular situation we take advantage of the paragraph headed design on page six of the road policy which permits the select board in his discretion to grant a waiver of a particular design standard and that we waive the sightlines standard to the right on exercising number seventy three so long as the sight line of three hundred thirty six feet is maintained when measure from a point fifteen feet inside the driveway at number seventy three and that's measured from the edge of the travel us as a town finding a way to word something if we were to grant this application and use this waiver that would leave the us from future litigation regarding an accident due to say distance i don't know but my second emotion was going to be that at an appropriate point coming toward poker hill it warning sign directed which would protect seventy one seventy four seventy three and seventy seven all all of whom have scientists and see shoes maybe not seventy seven certainly seventy one seventy three seventy four sight line problems  could see that if this was the only drive when the area could see applying that cost to the applicant but in this case they feel they would be also protecting some other homes at the same time so i don't feel the sign is just necessary for the applicant i need to know where the truck was going supports the second second thing having been out there and now having had to explain that you're going to elevate the bridge rather than lower the high end of the road that means you can have to ramp up to the bridge and there's the profile of the wreck because you're limited to fifty feet or twelve percent you know you know zooming up so we'd need to know the profile of that section  all ok so it seems like we don't have a great issue it seems like the bridge is designed according to what we need to see and it seems like on the at up but what i didn't understand last time is the concerns of the corps of engineers is that the bridge be long enough that it be a multiple of the bank full dimensions so there doesn't come a dam that also goes to the height x many multiples of the depth at a one year flood and i understood that last week it would have been  with some conditions i think the conditions being this approval does not extend to the first with a reference to the drawing done by northern one with reference to that drawing this permit is not to include the second drive from the principal drive which second drive leads off to the proposed accessory well that is some guidelines like for example staying within the road that they bill and cross that wetland so that was laid out in the email was there from brian under the section six point two two of the mop when the rules so and because of your proposed activity is in allowed use of amount weapons permit is not required at this time should the project change  be that we would look at i think it's one thousand nine hundred sixteen twenty four but i could be completely wrong and see what that imposes if anything and then maybe mr these folks are asking us for to use that two hundred thirty eight feet of trail for utilities and access to their property and as i stated it is currently a trail and there's also a similar situation with the west side and that being made into a trailer if i remember sometime in the seventy thanks seventy two so here we are tonight with this request them and as a lawyer i can say to work there was a bigger nice try when they say asking for confirmation that there's a right of way no i'm not going to come for hooks i don't believe the right of made last spring early summer of this was for the two approached the party name i don't know who owns that two hundred thirty eight foot wide lot that separates r parts it seemed it seems to me that if it seems like you'd be harder and landowner and more expensive to the landowner but again westford approaching westford and so our trucks i don't think you can give up the right away to the trail even if they say they somehow got it right to put it twenty four foot wide road over there they would have still that a j johnson and whoever else  property we don't blame you for that at all i would too it's just that it's as we can see here it's going to be an interesting one to figure out it's not one per table to figure out tonight but we understand your request we understand why you're asking what happens when they wan fire if i drive my property and right now i think i am because i'm not supposed to drive my car on what is defined as a trailer on and i think  yes he looked at the proposal and he would approve it then the next step is to do the permitting process which we actually have a copy and permit process would include things like the project the magnitude the purpose and then we did contact all the landowners adjacent and nearby so we would need to fill that up but this is the e mail that he had  we have a lot of water issues with a lot here in our town we have a lot of potential areas that could be problems in it again looking as a whole do we find ten sites around town and go in with excavators and do things to those sites where is the end and beginning of this and why shouldn't bill town as a whole all the residents be financially involved in something on private property in a stream and a stream that doesn't have a problem to the town to what we have to answer here and find a good answer for why the town should pay for something like that kinds of things that are statewide you know kind of realize it's a problem and that's why there's axion and i think the real issue here is how to have to address these things not just going to be like some of our neighbors funding  take and in this first step it's kind of like this one it's clear there was a there was a power and at the tender time all these homes are built there wasn't this kind of an issue because the bird was there so  so that was the cost to you excuse me happen with towns very often fly understand we'd have to look hard at that i don't know what all the implications would be then and then then and then the liability associated with with doing that and with way when the ballot item is not going to say it's going to have to say shall the voters spend seventeen thousand dollars and won't give any explanation because it can't show bias in any way so you need to do informative sessions ahead of time so people actually know what they're voting for because when people see numbers ages vote so the left be well informed by whatever group to do that but let's say that they do say they want to spend seven hundred thousand dollars on mass we'd still end as selectman the final legal repercussions and all those things of doing that so i understand you have the right and i and i agree with your right and i think it might be a good idea to get those voter signatures get it on the ballot get it approved but even then i'm scratching my head saying myself what happens then who does it who who who which three guys are sitting here saying and yet let's do this then you can just do it just as the voter said so that i don't have an answer for you but it's an interesting thing and even if we go to the voters which you seem to like the idea which i understand the only other scary thing about that as i doubt a lot here is that's march these people that i personally consult we've been talking of it ongoing as an issue is because we're not experts and when we talk about changing over anything you need state approval and in the situation like this where got developments that are going out like what will you look at ten years from now and say i achieve this i think underhill a safer place to live a place where people are not going to be at risk for flooding because of people coming through the assessment process we have a ten year plan  however what we need to know is that we have a plan of assessment for the future and we stop development when we look at it or you know we're in the person at least that there's going to be some kind of consequence for building that area at this point we everything this grant funding it basically is you know taking experts who know about hydraulics some water flow having them assess the region and find out what really will help without further negative impact in other areas what will historical grandfather a precedent allows us to get this so that you have to weigh different things and chris explained it much better than i can so you're looking at the impact of you know  it there's no way that we would say oh it's your fault who says that this is because if in the immediate first step and then we have assessed that there's no way i mean now i mean it would be crazy to imagine that  is that when we're talking about hyperbolic kind of things i get a little bit triggered because i'm talking about a concrete situation that's fixable and we start going to like well this is we've gotten permission from the professionals i'm not a professional i'm look at the company fixable issue and i think my brain goes on overload i cannot take it to like what you're trying to turn it into is something like i'm trying downstream asked to speak to the public and people to turn out and get involved in this day which then brings it to a more informal vote so we'll still by doing that we put it back in the public and people you know with  thinking like you are saying one thing you know you're doing work on private property or whatever but eight i don't know how we're going to get there without going to that step at this point did you guys agree with me is that is that our next step here i don't know what else c are they going to sell is their best going to depreciate are you going to lose long term property tax because the banks get devalued and you know it's what three to five years when they get about did the appraised so there are values go down because they're in the market for so grand is it is not the big picture is is is not that much it's a first step so i'm very willing after the semester to get our planning work committee and apply for if we put it to the tail it certainly says a lot about us like we're it does a lot about how we work to address fixable issues and then you know have repeated so with properties going up for sale right along with area where you're going to happen sidewalks the town of underhill really is going to look really great we're going to have sidewalks it's going to just beautiful transition from you know one area to order you know if you're not going to look at assessment and our water is going to flow in this area but you are putting it like sort of a sidebar to it it seems like there's a double standard like there's money being spent to look at it but not the infrastructure of it not the way that the water were  identified as the source of the problem it wasn't there before and that the berm has been there for a hundred years so you have a clear goal you have a clear think that the deficit need assessment could come later  you want sidewalks in front of your house good recess in every home owner on that street twenty thousand boxes shows up in your tax bills happened to me they decided to you guys shouldn't have sceptics anymore you should look into the town sewer system we shouldn't exist ok so the biggest beef is spending town money on private interests therefore the answer to that is better ok but then i ask this if then the second issue i think you have is some sort of liability wit well yeah but down the road if we had crisp are now being like you guys i don't know it i would hesitate to say the argument has been made in the case of cigarettes that the federally mandated warnings on the packages relieve the since we just to prove that i'm sure my i was there for that approval that has been too many i'm leader member but it's in my time here i'm sitting here thinking shouldn't that person shouldn't i mean what's wrong with a letter from my saying hey just to let you know the flooding issues is well i'm not sure it's titled in a certain way but we don't know if that agent is title to something called a collection agency but says they have the title to the property rather than putting on the number something they're looking for bankruptcy or something like that be covert said you know that one yes covert installation reimbursement policy we need to charge tax or share we should always have been charging tax alas we just did got charged tax and that is the law so we're go someone's doing something new in this town and building a three to military hundred thousand to a million dollar house which is going on in our town they have all sorts of expensive building roads are getting gravel buying all sorts of culverts for their driveway their driveway is built by variance and it's not that much more bookkeeping for these guys and say i get this much tone this many hours in the covert was this long when i spoke to moan about it she said the from a bookkeeping point of view the numbers are pretty much at her fingertips once all that has given guys are turned just as when you put on wage and price controls you introduce destruction because if you put a cap on the property given the way the education fund just supposed to come back to schools but doesn't a large  been used for other stuff going to public schools increases to then that means that your school board pays for the budget they are kept as to their budget too because they're go get less from popular which means we're going to have to lay off some teachers or forget about you know laptops for the kids or do something else and it introduces distortions it looks like it's good for the property tax and the general fund has been steadily reducing its share so more of the more of the education costs are follow property taxes that a cigarette taxes does a bit of cross walk to where to find the issue and there's only really i have gone through and marked up where charlie van winkle gave me and i think most of those things don't really concern the road policy so much and i'm hoping what is today tuesday i'm hoping by the end of the week or over the next weekend i can get you another draft i took what i'm doing it to show all thank you think the last thing friends of the local cable television interested in getting some letters of support where they might be able to get the equipment