distrust all right so i'd like to call the order the south burlington city council meeting tuesday january second council is all looking forward to a happy and healthier twenty eighteen our second item is instructions on exiting the building in case of an emergency so we need to listen because we're up stairs today yes if there is a an emergency here in this room proceed out the door back down the steps and out the front door and gather out in the parking lot to the south if that way is blocked tom will open the door into the staff room and we'll go out follow him out the back door and again around the back of the building and i will be responsible for making sure the building second floor is clear thank you i don't freeze the agenda  lanphier and humphries pollie to create initial plans for consideration humphreys pollie has a broad range of library experience for excited to work with them and they're kicking off a series of public meetings in january so i'm here tonight to invite the community to those meetings we're hoping as many people as possible can be there will be held in the green mountain room at city hall at seven pm on thursday january eighteen and at ten am on saturday january twentieth there also be an opportunity to give input on line and additional meetings will be held in march and these first meetings are to techs are going to share trends  ideas with us and we'll have an opportunity to share ideas with ben most importantly they want to learn what makes our city special and what's most important to us when i joined the board it was because i love books and i wanted to be a part of giving everyone access to them but learned i've and there are people who live in south burlington also love resources for new citizens and people who are seeking employment they love musical performances and children story times they love programs for seniors and knitting groups and craft programs and hiking advice and rooms for meetings so our library is a place for all of those things and more so we're just hoping to get everybody's good evening my name is a bob christoffel from of three thirty nine juniper drive in the south burlington and my quick discussion here tonight is on the closing of the dog park  because of other commitments but one of the things that i wanted to say was that it was a great idea to open this park and in our community alone of course the bridge where i live and also the president of the board of directors there we have about fifty five to sixty percent of our people that have dogs that area and when they found out that it was open they were stacking up about it i also did some checking to that c park opened in the mid to late sixty's ok shepherds lane opened around nine hundred ninety five and anybody building in that area knew of the process what was behind there in terms of a park and what it would be from a day to day basketball picnics baseball football little league which i've attended many throughout the last eight years so i also understand that it was just one person i may be wrong i don't know for sure that has made this point and it behooves me to see that you know just one person or two people if it is to can override the majority of the people who'd like to see this park opened so my thought is that i've also talked to one lady who lives there  shepherd lane and she knew when she bought a few years ago she knew what she was buying it to with the park and everything behind there so i just like to make it i also have sent around the various petitions or got roughly about seventy five names right now i have not been able to go around and collect all the rest of them because they just got out of work it's been a very hectic week and one of the other person that has word been working with me on this her husband died and christmas day so she was unable to attend here today so i just wanted to make my point that i think it's a very good idea too with that part backup maybe some guidelines and some rules need to be two six four nine six three six six two six three and i'd be very happy to meet with you take the dog up there and walk around and other dogs are in there and quite honestly i never heard any dog barking and if it is it's got to be just a short period of time but there's got to be a heck of a lot more noise in that neighborhood  if it is this one person who works there during the day i become more than glad to give you a call and they can talk to you about it and i think you're bringing it up to bob imo i would just dangerous and some of the rules and regulations related to that that they're proposing one of each one of which suggests that they don't believe a dog park is an appropriate use of that land and i think as we work through the what to do with wheeler park and how to preserve that that's a conversation that potentially some people in your neighborhood as well as yourself might want to and nineteen acres of land yeah ok mostly in a natural state and then there's the wheeler house they use for various other things and we're considering about how to really retain that allow a dog park there so i think as we discuss other alternatives for dog parks going into the future we need to have public input on that and it sounds as if you and a number of people i know it's not adjacent to your property so it would require getting into a car but if you have lots of people with dogs that want to dog park we really need to have a more r conversation about that in the future so i would encourage you to sort of get the back of your mind what made you made it so nice was you can just talk about i there i know with people in my corner british summer woods and all the surrounding areas so  husband home all week long and i wanted to really extend our thanks to the emergency personnel that didn't have that time off all those holidays and i heard several sirens i actually picked my son up and i'm not took a highway to get out and the first friday when the snow was falling and i'm was grateful to have the warnings that doug ch isn't out and no to be careful and be glad it's new to us but many many cars were in the ditch and many emergency personnel were on the highway and so i just want to extend i think all of our thanks to the  team so it is recognized by our staff it's appreciated by our staff the food was good for scruggs and we really truly do thank you for that it's a wonderful gesture and i know it comes on where we stand in the process that relates to the library city hall the new one with the contractors with engaging the overflow so she'll be here to answer any questions you have about the schedule going forward we have a legislative lunch or a lunch schedule for our legislative delegation for the eighth next monday or excuse me next tuesday eight this monday it is monday  been contacted i think it was reaching out to the senate delegation so this will be our opportunity to talk to them about legislative issues as they go into the second year that by him as you know you have a budget meeting six thirty thursday downstairs in the main conference room all managers are lined up and will be in to give their presentations and take questions and then lastly the mental health community outreach program continues to garner a lot of interest from the media and from the public mental health has received almost twenty applications for the four positions they're seeking to fill and they have begun interviews and so we're moving working on an m o you that really lays out how the program is going to work on the detail basis so we can set of patients goal of trying to have people on board by the end of this month if we may we may meet  mean i'm very pleased with the response i think it's a it's not being a mental health professional myself i can only imagine that would be an exciting opportunity for somebody to be right out in the field with police and an a the legislative feel around governance and some alternative things and we were moving forward with that and they are soliciting support from other area legislators well one was the regionalization of the study i mean these are just what we have as a council have encouraged the regional study to look at that and the other one is with reasons usually of the of the airport ok yeah i'm sorry and then the other piece was church angels but those are the two areas that they believe talked about there was a third one that really would lay out what regionalization would would look at and we have to sort of hold back on there and not  define it but rather have the legislature if they're interested in pursuing that do the defining so that seems to have a motion to approve the consented genda that include sign dispersement approval of the chin and county regional planning commission unified planning work programme project requests consent to administrative amendment to act two fifty land use permit for sea zero five zero three pertaining to city center and fourthly the land exchange agreement with barrett park  somebody who crosses from the sidewalk side over to the other side because there is you know it was an intersection with a street we had some i don't but there are definitely places we cross walks i mean and and we need to do something in order to be able to place left column you'll see that many of the items have been completed although i point out that most of that run budget at all is pretty well laid out in schedule  we have some areas that are ongoing like the monthly financial part reports on the narratives and so on there are areas that have been deferred most notably on the  for the some city center projects and some of the ordinance new ordinances and who is bringing you a series of updates to existing ordinances and when those are reasonably complete we hope to hop on to the new proposed ordinances and bring that up to speed so beyond that think that we should have meetings in places where the public cannot hear so i just thought i'd you know i was curious about that the other thing i mean gets to the cit develop incentives for businesses to locate in city center and that was specifically small business local business and i know that we all received an email from one local business owner  frustrated feeling kind of pinched also financially and i i really think that we need to look under you know every bush check every nook and cranny and really check with regard to the tiff financing regulations whether or not and this is just something that i saw that happened in illinois with their tip districts and i realize that every state passes a different set of regulations but in illinois you can get small business grants you can use to funding to offer small business grants  that's just one tool we have on market street created you know development regulations requiring that the first floor be commercial and there is concern that we will not be able to fill those spaces that the market just is saturated and i really want to keep this council mindful of our time line and if we cannot really drum up those business tenants then perhaps a change to the code should be considered i also want us to really focus on making city center the place where our small and local business is so i'm coming back to my my original thing here but a place where small local businesses can be located be anchors and can thrive i think it is part of our identity i think our local businesses present the best of our values because they the organically come out of who we are and i think that they are valued and that the public would i think their the identification with the city and perhaps the city center would be diminished if we were to lose those local small businesses that we have whether it be you know as freestanding building or in blue wall or in the small dog place there are lots of pressures on a market where there's going to be development for prices rather it be rents you know whether it be the taxes then to really increase and that can out price you know the small guys and i think that that would be a loss and i don't know if the to frag elations would allow for there to funding to allow for small grants as they allow in illinois i would like us to check that into that i would like this the council to consider you know just the pressures that will be increasing  the local businesses and we fortunately haven't is that you know in this in this room or you know before this body and i know that small business owners themselves have raised it and i think we should really listen and consider carefully those concern community to me i've understand what you're trying to say but i guess the question is you were asking if if there was the possible using to funds to create small business we have that first floor requirement on market street when it be great if other than the fact that if it's if it's like a municipal funded building right then there might be room within that to do something right but for all the private buildings i mean we don't have any plenty earth zoning regulations or for base codes that dictate what this business is could be right no my fear is that their rents in the new construction would be higher than they would be in the older construction if you could on pine street like classically pine street a long time ago was just kind of a dingy part of town right until the artists took over all the loft on howard street right now the place is just blown up because it's been recycled which is one of the nice things about it and now people there are complaining about there they feel threatened that their rents might be going high so there's a market force that play here and the question is sometimes how can you try to make the playing field little bit more level for the newcomers that don't have the financial clout that let's say you're not saying that starbucks but a company like starbucks would have or another major franchise you know like right you know i mean then you sort of end up with that you know prominent of a bunch of storefronts that look like everywhere else because it's the same stores everywhere else so i know that i think that's going to happen because you know there's kind of an abundance of retail space right now so the question is how do you so that we don't have any so there's i my feeling is or there's a there's a an abundance of commercial space maybe not the best location the question is what type of businesses are you talking about are the businesses regional type businesses if they're not retail is there enough generator maker type space not those exactly things we want in south burlington that sort of could compete with with other areas that give somebody a solid footing well that's right i think that combination of thinking and even just identifying with the needs of the south burlington business association members or future members as they expand a contract would be sales tax way low i mean if people are buying on line right they are but there's the challenge for retailers to figure out a way to bring them back right bring people back in and you have to do it with things interest them to make them want to go there investors these things come in you know the pendulum swings one way swings the other way right so if retail figures out a way to attract people back in they might actually end up going oh i can buy this and do that you know i mean this is something that to be said for like just having packages arrive at your house after a while it gets kind of work and i don't root for christmas and i and then it was on doesn't charge half the tax are supposed to right so we get them in the stores we know we've got the tax we've got that have been fixed with amazon  feel included in your packets this is this is the second reading now m r i guess the second batch this end of the year and there are three that are related to so the first ordinance is the ordinance prohibiting smoking in places of public access the proposed amendments that are provided and were provided based on the ad and the other paper in the city clerk office and on line will update this ordinance to remain consistent with the new standard form of the ordinance codification product project in the city's new form and continue to mirror mirror of the state statutes related and the repealing of this ordinance will have little to no effect as it talked about in the last meeting as the city now uses the authority outlined in state statute now which is sort of the supersedes this one and we've been using that in the already in twenty four a chapter eighty seven as our authority a love of levees special on assessments and the third one is related to the to the second one which was an ordinance regulating the construction of sidewalk and storm drain on white street between wells and rode in an airport parkway establishing a local improvement district and loving special tax assessments according to benefits conferred upon the property and said district this was adopted in  repealed this ordinance should have no effect as all remaining debts are there are no outstanding debts this point and the fourth one is an ordinance regulating the construction of sidewalk and storm drain on  the north boundary line on the municipal lot and the south side of wells road this one was adopted in sixty three and certainly has no of standing deaths at this time to know the definitions and things i these long definitions are just that are relatively short ones but i think it makes sense just for example what it took to back a substitute things get added that move the council repealed the ordinance relating to procedure for living special assessments ordinance regulating the construction of sidewalk in storm drain or white street between most road airport for equate stablish in a local improvement or in living special assessments according to benefits conferred upon the property and said district fish and see an option efficiencies that are more perhaps more focused on making sure they turn off the lights not out or putting in a new solar array or buying  lightbulbs that are more efficient but sort of those harder things to grab onto that they're reduce energy we decided early on that the first the first subject area that we would tackle would be payroll and the benefits and we're deep into that right now and  so some of that has been bringing more personnel to the table and and splitting up job descriptions a little bit who really is on point with all that is it turned out to be a much bigger project and we don't dissipate it we've had the people company send a technical advisor up here for a daylong meeting with us in the hopes that we should str simplify our payroll system which is enormously complex and we're still focused on that ok and it's been it's really been a six month ongoing project involves the department has time has taken a lead to keep that in everyone's mind because it's important to me it's important i think to the energy committee and i think it has could pay real dividends to the city to reduce our process within your processes within your various offices which i think really has some substance to it in terms of efficiency just envelop of course the middle school and high school te department public works just to get an idea of how they're handling things and i've also been met with sarah reeves about twenty two times of those polls they were i don't see any reason to push this this year this coming legislative term i have every reason to believe from sarah's very informed perspective that maybe if somehow some thoughts on that i know he expressed interest on consolidated trash collection and previous meetings the other questions i thought but i think it's in your offices are close enough i think it's a good caution that we have to be mindful that we don't push too much off on her because she does have a broad spectrum of responsibility so it's a good ca i think on the plus side though you know also i'm sure makes her job more interesting to her and she is acquiring some additional skills which is the job growth and promotion which is moves around a little bit but it kind of keeps us on task you know there's some things that you just can't anticipate the whole mental health initiative that was launched came after you know we were well into the work plan just robert a director of public works projects for missing the last council meeting at the last minute for the same reason i think there's a bunch of think you guys want to talk about but i'll just maybe continuing to finish up on some of the points that were just raised certainly from an asset management perspective the notion of a single haller in any one geographic region for trash recycling is exciting to someone like me the less trucks going down the road the longer the road last it's pretty simple as a former board member of the subways district and i was on the board the last time they waited deep into these waters and it's very involved discussion public sector moving in taking over private business are rearranging the way that private business in the free market runs as the bogeyman is always raised about the specter of what about the little guy and it's of it's always the big guys that raise that but you know a side of them out at but really the fear is about government's involvement in the private sector it's worked out where there's a reason it can't work here and pass the board subsidies to shoot one of the commissioners has recommended implementation or so or further starting steps but that was also a time in the boards and the districts history where they were dealing with bigger litigation issues relative to the proposed landfill and liston and they were going at it with both wilson and the landowner  down my street every week so i mean it's pretty straightforward and certainly from a technical perspective we would certainly dorsett there are issues you know certainly well side of our control in our specific areas of concern but in general we're very supportive of you talked about energy efficiency and some of the projects some of the things you mention and one behavioral i think what the industry is finding out is we all are really that worried about that stuff so stuff turns off automatically no so most of that stuff's slowly because from a policy perspective it never really works it's really tough to police individuals behaviors even the most well intentioned folks forget to turn their lights off and leave their computers on the printers but the way i'll lead working any of this actively but these are the thoughts we have in place there's a lot of good opportunities to perhaps leverage the money coming to us through both existing line items and perhaps some of the landfill solar p v monies that the city receive we have some really good ideas in mind of projects we can tackle you know and you know just after the i think after the first tuesday in march we're really be ready to talk about more specifics but it certainly did that's how we see the next evolution of these projects busy intersection there's forty somethings signal heads with all the balls but it's a good example of that that was just forty something lights and we're seven hundred dollars a month we're one hundred streetlights still so a lot of money on the table but it does require the our local distributor who had access to a rebate for and he likes and i'm going to admit i'm probably getting my our allies confused at all these various efficiency projects for example we just swapped out the lights in our maintenance bay until it goes away and eleven months return on that investment which is you know less than a year spectacular over one cobra's i think i think it was something like a two year return on investment in terms of reduce energy costs just by switching so we do a lot of this stuff a lot of those what i would call kind of smaller you know for the whole thousand dollar projects probably and probably not letting you know about every little one of them but there's a lot of those going on in the back room in addition to some bigger efforts hard it is i mean i would think the public would be interested as well to aggregate those annual savings in a way that shows that we're really making incremental even if they're small but just to learn that we're saving a hundred bucks a month on one intersection is wonderful to hear yet recent magazine article coralie did i did provide information i know she had and i saw one page with graphics on a handful of projects so i think you're right i'm a real good look back at maybe the last five years you know of those efforts really even back because it surely isn't spending money to save money in a just result more money to spend more money save more money until you're solve everyone's problem in this regard is there a spreadsheet that breaks out every every meter that the city has you know devices on and in it do subcontracted out is it cheaper when we subcontracted out then we do it ourselves and we do it ourselves we have the only expense were practically incurring from a ledger perspective is the purchasing of the materials the laborers and if i paid you to do it thank you for your time and the materials and the markup on the materials and the profit so it's certainly much cheaper to do that stuff that's heard that's my reason but somebody was saying you had informed them that it would be cheaper if we started hiring more subcontractors in the spring time to believe that could be reason and then i can pick committee has been asking for support for bike and had grant writing and honestly tyrion eve but a small amount of money could you talk about how you could see that helping in your efforts or how could that materialize if there was more money in the budget to support the completion and create organization and coordination of like impact grants still those grants are oh great they'll carry generally a twenty percent match tomorrow the grant writing would do anything for you if we didn't have the matching capital to actually get would get money well it would it would create more shovel ready projects on to speak and then if and when they would it happens i don't know every twelve to twenty four months our friends from washington will come around asking for projects so theoretically that it would prepare us well for i get to be identified a future funding opportunity but that has its value i don't know it's been a year or two and  generally in my line of work there's a lot of talk at the national level of a stimulus package it's yet to be implemented you know so with that that needs to happen first and then they can go and find the projects but if it were to happen  or if or if more money were views into the budget of the tax payers to actually do the projects you know everybody so do i understand you then that there are some projects in the budget for bacon yes and so grant writing there are grants available to help support what's already in the budget when is money available for them so we suddenly had a bunch of projects that were ready to go in years one through three but the money's programmed out so we're ten and the money's not there until years four through you know so you would you would create situation in which you had a bunch of projects but not the capital to build them you know a bunch of project ready projects because you still need that match we have ten years the shovel ready projects well i mean we have a ten year c a p which carries with the project development schedule for a variety of things including by suppression projects and those are all faked those are all kind of phased out through going to design your one into perm past or is that something we're thinking about doing going forward for example on the dorset street stretch of the allen road stretch as i know we don't have idle resources but as they come online are you from your management of your available capacity do you do small segments break up the ground lay the gravel but the underlayment down so that it could be ready or at least it's build out the shoulder a little bit more or do you really like to have everything lined up to do it from soup to nuts the entire project to that question make any sense i think that what bigger issue is what's the value what's the value of the cities of performing work we can we can build sidewalk and to your question yes we can decide the more time we and the more time we see the more time we spend some performing which again back to the mirror used writing discussion to say it's a city money because the something expenses the last time we're doing x for example last spring with us we are a public works that a lot of projects around the park the various parks in the city we spent four or five weeks doing those we didn't do anything else really for four or five other weeks so for that said we will drive all th one cleaning streets sweeping park moaning maintained by eccentric cetera you know so we take on a few projects here across sectors whether it's storm water highway or sewer but we're mindful of not trying to make contractor too much that's a really good point because i mean we have a lot of traffic goes through the city right and so there are things that you do that are visible and there are things you do that are invisible right i mean not really invisible if you're taking a walk through a park you might see a storm water improvement right things that keep the pipes running the rosary but and then i don't know how you're configured for you know manpower right now people power in terms of number of where they are low and had counter were just where you should be were fully apart leaves you end up having to do five or six ok so it takes like it in our case we just got done five months of doing just that so for the first time in a long time with all the stuff so that provides us in the summer roughly two full construction crews oh and whether they're like we sell perform for paving contract we do all that we do a majority of the preparatory utility work on again no one i think i've ever work so we spend a bunch of weeks doing that and then we have another crew going to some sidewalk work or a park project on the part guys are generally maintaining it heck it as you saw this last summer well the rain it's eventually it's all going to keep up with the growing grass and  do sexual side work on door street or alan or i was let kevin know what it's at the expense of and we've had this we've had these discussions with them last year about projects and leaving us to do what we sa shore however it means the following and it gets discussed and solutions are made but we're not doing these things because there's we're waiting for grants so if there's something easy that we can get done we are we are going forward and doing it well it depends on how you define what is easy to do i think i think i think justin does a great job as he's just to take you down saying that i mean where we can get something done the team gets it done if it's if it's something reasonably s i really like what was in the c c c flams number three priority that our planning commission prioritized land value of development return on investment this project would involve an analysis of the city's existing development to examine with the city's strongest performing value per acres type of a diff development exist to initiate a broader discussion about future development capital investments in the long term impacts of public infrastructure i think that's a really important planning for the city to have for you to have your eyes on to be able to really advise this body but the staff as well as to what the future development would ideally look like with regard to what resources we have at our disposal and specifically manpower right  and so with regards to that another i think tool that i would like to ask you if we have in our schools all is whether or not we can combine efforts just like we have with a municipal union district with other communities with regard to bike lanes so for instance the bridge the bike lane going over i e nine right clearly is not only south bronx residents who would use that bridge and i understand that there's a local match and so what i you know suggested and the message got through to paul is that there are people kind of investment in terms of our economy and our priorities and so when we look at brand writing versus but we got the manpower in the tools let's just do it is there a way for us to look at what we have in terms of our strategy where that's of element should go and why it should go there and also what other communities can pull their resources with us who among us can write the grants who among that when he gets together with his colleagues yourself brought in as a project that you all think benefits everyone else and you want to ask us to has others to contribute and i would say that previous city manager he really been on the fact that we don't have county government and i think this is one of those instances where i think that south burlington is you know a go through place for a lot of people and a lot of the me to go through with it was our local man and i just i think that there i mean i'm not going to change it here tonight but it's too bad that there is not a more shared responsibilities taking it so what what this effort is going to be about is trying to determine where that infrastructure is going to cost you more money versus where it's going to be a benefit to you financially so it will primarily be a plane is going  project will be providing g a s assistance because it is kind of a layered data base as well as input on infrastructure cost as well as means but that will be involved it's pretty interesting up if we're  it could add value frankly and by valuing kind of resources and time generally we're seeing studies a slow take around six to nine months so yeah it should it should be but you know we have the flashers the solar powered flashers so it's hard for people from that part of just down by that you know the beauty of the the reconstructed you know culture order to get across the road because there's a lot of traffic on the roads so is that a state regulation that there has to be something there were is it something that we can the goal is for when he cross walk it will dampen the room's mood by letting you know that and december twenty third federal highway patrol they in any incidents that result from their own solution so my recommendation to our city's attorney to the manager to the council would be they are no they no new installation should be considered until they're back under the guise of federal highway they told us to keep our existing ones through their useful service life which is an interesting term if you see you know they act and really look so we can't do anything we can't do when you cross legs there or anywhere else the sta but so because of that we can't put a blanket crosswalk there we could put a regular cross walk there and state highway we need their permission to do so with they provide through they create obstacles to that because of the way recognising protecting the resource that we have one of the unique things about an easement on this property is that it's really intended to also sustain a harmony or balance between the nature use and that that is something that in terms of the legal agreements will have to be negotiated because the the way of maintaining in the city will still be the one maintaining both parcels but the the management plans for the natural area are urban are definitely different from maintaining the homestead areas as are the uses and will get jennifer will kind of get into that a little bit more about what they allowed and not a lot of uses are for each area and that was in the report so the framework report is is really the first step you know multi step and that resulted from a series of meetings i think fibers four or five at least at least at least yeah maybe maybe more than that of the committee with the n c group we had one public  so the public was able to weigh in on this it definitely was a process and a lot of discussion of some of some of these elements the wording was worked over for months to you know to get t city manager's office at this point after the city the city council over he said move ahead with this the city's responsibility will to go to select one of the partners that we've already interviewed the land trust it requires emphasis i'm sure so but the steps in here than in choosing the partner and then negotiating the terms you know that requires a selection of of oh boy or a law firm to work on behalf of the city  to negotiate the terms with the conservation easement bolder than drafting the easement assessing the baseline condition of the property so that basically saying this is the point of which then what is the limits of that and even right now what is the actual property line dividing the wheel or nature apart from the homestead you know we've gone out there and walked it and everything but you know the the map that is  are in the way that this is written step four is that after the city attorney can gauge a city attorney and move into negotiations with the conservation partner the task force certain types of uses and prevents development on the land in perpetuity so the in perpetuity becomes you know an important piece of this it's just like so you have to consider into the future what kind of what kind of needs the part you know the property is going to have in the future and not restrict that but are restricted to just you know a broad intent as well as kind considerate and consideration of specific things that might be needed and  versus management plan versus city ordinance because this was something it took us a long time to work through one of the things that the s c group wanted us to understand is that our partner in this whether it's the land trust or the other the other group can only monitors so much there are certain things of paint can't do and certain things that the city is still responsible for doing this is really nice presentation here it's so compact but it shows what is the allowed and what is not allowed in both the nature area and in the homestead area and it shows it breaks it down into all of the different components that go into these various items and which ones will be done by a city ordinance which ones will be done by a master plan and we've all been working in pieces on getting a master plan for parks together and what can be done by the conservation easement so we're looking at this the first thing i think that is that we want to review and keep in mind is the basis of this is what do we have there now what do we want to maintain of that and we are might we want to change some of that and i think we had such a representative committee i think that there were there were really good people with a lot of different interests of the committee for natural resources and by compared and land trust and recreational parks so it was a good to have first group of people who were coming up with all of these different kind of interests that we would want to see for the for this property so for instance dogs in accordance with city ordinances that would be  matter of city ordinances and right now that is a matter of having your dogs out a leash in the natural area and being able and picking up after your dog prohibited uses on the natural area alteration of land forms with restriction of amount that would have to be something that the conservation easement would have to looking at the terms of all of this they would have to weigh in on that  residential commercial commercial development and so forth and then looking at the homestead what is allowed community municipal and nonprofit uses that might be including putting up a temporary structure like a tent for a wedding something like that community garden already there burlington garden club already their events permitted by the city again that would be  perhaps some event kind of situation structures related to existing hughes's so at that would be any kind of structure that is related to the gardening used for many different things and so was that was probably one of the most contentious discussions is like well how how much expansion of this part of this building for you know for uses related to whatever's in that building and so you know that when you know there's not a little detail around that but you know that's something i think there's there's quite a bit of discussion it could still surround that disagreement with pretty much everybody else on the committee on that one because you know his thought was well you know to be able to experience that but you know and it was a question i mean i was sort of in between on it well i wouldn't want to make it any big and to the point because one things we all agreed on we don't want to have additional parking no additional paving no additional road with us you know that it's just no point in getting over it and a piece of natural resource and so that  the homestead most of those laws are used by people who use them using the veterans park you know that's that's that's basically and then there's a lot of outside of this because the nature park or the homestead does include for the most part of the parking lot it's often sort of street switch street extension you know so that law is inside the homestead you know if there's there's commercial users who would like to you know use the property for weddings or park probably gets more you now than it did when it was first down and there's almost no parking in central park i understand that's why are the good it's a very good example now that's a very good example because i think if anything  understand that you can't drive or where in this world and you should put parking lots and parking garages in places that are natural areas of central park is actually a perfect example of you know allow a lot of people use th force as it is with the place where people can come review those terms and we did have some discussion about and everybody voted for the term that kept coming up over and over ov fifty years out one of the conditions change one of the city has you needs that kind of thing and under there was some there were some people who want to just say you know write diving into the agreement and i am sorry i i guess i should have i kind of put in mental notes to go look at your minutes on line so if you could kind of fill in what is here this is on page eighteen of the document we received and i realize you're working from memory and i can go check those minutes too i was the second paragraph with that begins with mr hisor and it starts with the second sentence sentence kaiser explained that the it and then he goes on to say it's the second half i'll just keep reading mr hisor also explain the importance of the conservation values and the restrictions placed on the land the fields he would not feel comfortable notice that in some way down the road that is in conflict with that of the conservation values they may come to the city and say this is a they use which is not in accord underwood in the next one that comes after that so that we do you don't have to spend so many hours i mean you still have to go do the you know go to the same process but for what you learn is are a way to somehow you know gel that up and then write it down so that the next group you know that undertakes the task and there will be overlap of some people right you know it makes it easier for them so how to plow the road for the next time just just keep that in mind or write because going to happen at least at least two more times  but came from you know the neighborhoods and surrounding surrounding that here is that that's going to differ from one place to another but it was interesting it was into the fact that there was no mention of the two thousand and six police station vote  i kind of in my own words kind of said well what does this whole thing mean is that just because the city owns this land does not give it the right to locate were built x on it right now is that it seems to be a popular notion that because the city owns this it's you know it's free land right we can you know we can save money by delivering on it is a terrible temptation when there's land you know to take that attitude about it you know and unfortunately the enc prohibition of a dark prohibition has a lot more to do with his maintaining the wildlife you know you can still walk dogs on a leash there that's a city ordinance control thing but a dog park is not that and there's there's quite a bit of what wetlands there and you know just the level of dog use that already has is plenty and then there's the issue of if you put in the homestead where it isn't allowed to use whatever you supplanting i thought about the dog park because when don and kathy and only we're meeting home we wondered about this and it is not explicitly prohibited in the homestead however if you look at the last one of those  structures related to existing uses to me putting up a dog park with fencing at all is not related to existing uses at all and if it does it i permanent structure and so to me that will solve a dog park in that in that area i also think that it was the sense of this community that the homestead area is we would probably i you know i don't have in touch with people but i would think they would probably say no that's not what we're envisioning for the homestead but which brings up another point it in the prohibited use is on the on the natural catastrophe and burned down or something like that it is there is there at least a some sort of a clause that that doesn't prevent you from rebuilding that building or i think that is something for this country and they've been around for at least a hundred years so i would hope that these places be around for at least another couple of years i think that the valuable thing that you say thank you can you can get you know the nature park is you can get away from the city to anything new that would be added into that if i could read the right thing i think some of the thinking on that was if there are huge storm water practices like come along if somebody has a better idea of how to manage storm water then putting that management plans must be consistent with the protection of conservation values which comes to the same something with regard to is it in keeping with the conservation values of the easement contract i think that's where the storm water you know because i mean there were there were definitely some discussions that you know some real concern because there's a pretty major piece of wetlands as part of this property and that that nothing  continue to expand or change how that wetland operates and you know the way it functions right now the board is right to make you know perhaps because there's some development as planned the others on the heinsberg side you know that that they not assume that you know they can dump their storm water because the property line of wheeler park goes right through the middle that what lands a lot of the wetlands is on the opposite side of it it's on a different parcel which the city has actually does control but it's not part of the official designation of wheeling so that's you know it apparently was too complicated to try to include those two pieces of property actually there but this that both of which it would be nice if they didn't be included as we will in asia for you know one is the land directly adjacent to it on the east swish stream kind of goes around it you know kind of forms a little bit of a dangerous curve in the wintertime but those people down it does end but in fact you know that's not officially part of w park but it's used that way you know there's trails that go up into that you know and it would be nice if that piece could also become part of the nature park so you don't have that little that little piece that is somehow from the parking you go there but but you actually kind of it's not that easy to just cross out of the park and go straight across to the nature park you have to divert a little bit around there is a and they have some experience with us and they have negotiated these kinds of agreements before and so they can you can reason in this question and then when there's a draft of an agreement they can come back to us and we surrounds the country and have parks that have been around for i don't know at least a hundred years with lots of pressure i mean can you imagine the pressures on central park i mean every foot is worth hundreds of thousands of dollars i think max revenue and all sorts of things to the city yet they managed to keep those lines drawn and not turn it into  greater investment in keeping this open because that's all there is no you can't go down the road and say oh well there's one hundred acres and somebody owns it we can buy that  an aside but being familiar with there and if everybody if people go up there one of the things that we really don't talk a lot about is beyond the park what is a value when there's a view there that can only be for the public for the public to access the view of the green mountains there really isn't any other place but there to see that kind of a view so that some part of it to it provides the public with an opportunity to see the see another part of our you know our state you know you really get that view in to me it's priceless  and there's other extenuating circumstances that need to be addressed around protecting that view but for the public it really is in south burlington the best view and probably most europe but there's nothing interrupting your view when you look at the green mountains from up there you know as of the even though there are developments there you don't see them you still see this pastoring view from there all the way next steps along to you the end or the city management and city attorney's office as you go through those i think it's worth emphasizing as they worked with this committee that a lot of what is in here was determined through a pretty robust process that this was not a group of eight people who walk came in with the same ideas who really just wanted to get those charity feelings on paper there was a great deal of discussion and even of mugs to people from the same committees the public meeting i think it was pretty well attended this committee even walked out on that site the green line that you see there was hand g p s to we all went out there we had a whole meeting or maybe two devoted just to recognizing the need  different needs between the homestead and the natural area but really trying to get to to michael's credit or eggs to define exactly where that line is  as you read through it and you may ask yourself did did the committee think about this there's a pretty strong chance that they not only bought about it but they talked about it for forty five minutes before talking about it to get to the next meeting in the city because they recognize that the calls transcend that individual department the restrictions on this piece of land come into being i don't know about the education restrictions on the twenty eight acres we own on the east but we were not aware of any  direction that came from the council at that meeting was to form their committee in regard to and sort of had to kick the can down the road as to whether to pursue the easement after that but i think i think your recollection from jenin the time is about that is is very close the question you've asked how much who are protections are afforded with an easement versus not and that was something i think that was hotly debated i don't remember at council meeting that almost to me i want to say the most immediately preceded the formation of this task force that helps with your memory i think the other part of the discussion and i don't mean to ignite i cared for and you know one of the next here yeah the other part of the discussion that same evening i believe was whether or not the vote that was put down right about the swap required a conservation easement to take place and i think that's the question do you hear you know but if it john your memory that was the other part of the around to big that evening and i believe that there is a legal memos that were prepared to  bit i don't know from each of the department heads and i'm sure you'll get somewhat of an update from them at the budget meeting but revenue right now just percent  as much going on but it will start up again in the spring and we'll still have some significant dollars yet to be spent in the stormwater but it all matches the long term plan for what we have in storm water and the percentages will come a little bit closer together as we go further into the some of that expense line so you have two positions that are being advertised one for the children's librarian and one for position in storm water because it's a new new the new position that's being created or is somebody leaving mainly to manage the number of projects that we have going right now as well as some of the help that we're giving to the town of shelburne so we get some of that cost offset  but i'm pretty sure that in the in the first quarter narrative i think doug had what their placement something that he needed a double check with what that information was mak salaries other hours think trevor wanted to offset some of the dispatch and i think this is this is the on call part time dispatch money that we've been using and he's been wanting to track that so i believe he's been putting it into the other it is proposed that way in the new budget if it's not those programs will have to be pared back i and i just i think it's a part of the public to know as well that our recreation programs really holly is meeting with their after school director and we're looking at ways that we can supplement the afterschool program but also provide opportunities for the larger community that the after school afterschool programs go and for the summer camp program we're completely looking at different alternatives probably mainly run by third parties next year of things because we won't be doing the traditional daycare you know they're there focuses it's changing but i do believe that we need a recreation department and i do believe that the public really benefited from city first by the weather but particularly by some bites was right or success and so i i don't want to suggest that if it's not you know self sustaining that we should cut it need to find a way for the recreation department to be able to bring in the necessary resources in order to be able to provide exactly the bands well maggie is working on developing a foundation she is you know here to offset that or at least to provide in from different programs that were run that would allow us as hearts to you i think a lot of your special events kinds of things and that's just not happening anymore so there's a refocus on that and the new challenge set there as well and i know they're working hard on trying to come up with a way that they can find money if need be to help supplement we to agree that it's extremely important program both the city fast and the bike invites to come very successful i'd like to see americans like to see him continue she's she's had a great conversation with a pretense will sponsor time to rate the total cost of bike invites and we're we remain optimistic and we should know where we don't see that right program sports and and the branching out of are there so much of what's done here make in it's with south burlington leagues and teams that are kind of exam from the field char so we might get a donation from some of the programs you may see holly come to you with a proposal that says we need to continue to look at this a little bit differently moving forward  t what's happening right now is so much of the field use is dominated by the south burlington teams and leagues that there are there's not a lot of extra space available or extra time available to have that revenue come in and that  would help offset some of the other costs that we have mainly because we take up so much of that time within our own community they currently right now they're exempt whether it be the school teams or the or the south burlington use to the tax for this year a number of folks wanted to go above and beyond that and we were careful with our conversation to make sure that they they were making  overpayment of taxes they weren't paying taxes that they hadn't received a bill for yet so now that ruling has actually come out i know that we're going to start getting a lot of  calls for refunds of some of that money that's been made so i think you'll start seeing on some of the warrants a refund of overpaid taxes because we can't pay that can they then for the third installment of taxes or the stew for in march for fiscal year eighteen but because they haven't been in voice yet and received a tax bill for the next fiscal year the i r s has basically made a ruling that you cannot deduct that second was that a second yeah ok all in favor signify by saying i live all righty so we have one license for mt pool and bar l l c they're moving park locations and i am curious to kurt's circle is city property the road proper it would the f a a truly have a say over whether or not the city could open because that what i hear is people want something close by and there isn't residential housing right there well if there are south of it south of