the meeting of the housing human services and transportation committee when i'll come to order it is about one thirty four p m on thursday february fourth two thousand and sixteen before we begin may i please request that we all turn off or silence our cell phones or other doors making devices at this sign i'd like to introduce our committee voting members and members here at bear so show and of course as you know art diligent committee staff cammy frias committee secretary and our legislative analyst michelle yoshimura members we have a single item on the card thank you for individuals who would be testifying in the chamber please sign up at the desk located in the eighth floor lobby just outside the chamber door if you will be testifying from the remote testimony locations specified on the meeting agenda please sign up with the council staff at that location pursuing to the rules of the  testifier will be allowed to testify for up to three minutes per item with one minute to conclude if requested when testifying please state your name and the name of any organization you are  and i'm asking you to please move this ahead expeditiously i've been following this saga for about two and a half years and i do really feel that not implementing it is in many ways costing us money but even more important than that it's costing us time and the ability to take control of our infrastructure and get what we need put it into the step and built in time instead of settling for those projects which are just shovel ready or you know easy to do but there are a lot of hard things to do that we need to work on this process allows that we did lose a year and a half the first draft of this thing i understand was  completely untenable it called for only departmental employees to be all of the officers of this thing my understanding is the current draft is more in line with what a while who does and it's workable a lot who and the other places and this is most of the municipalities across the country follow this process and it usually takes a couple of  i do think in the future would be good to get a at least one member who is citizen participation would help but i know that a lot of  could be involved with it but right now i think it's important to get it done and not getting it done you know it's where it's an apples and oranges thing and trying to compare the monies but i having spoken to people in the state high up in h dodd and also with the yahoo n p o i'm convinced that it's really costing us a lot of monies and difficulties and that can be rectified by moving is there anyone in the gallery or at the district offices who would like to testify thank you ladies members as there are no further individuals in the const council chamber or district offices wishing to testify without objection i will now close public testimony funding for transportation planning and carry out coordinate it and integrate it metropolitan transportation planning in accordance with twenty three united states code sections one three four and one three five and chapter two seven nine d hawaii revised statutes two correspondents dated january nineteenth two thousand and sixteen from the department of the corporation  metropolitan planning organization the purpose of the revised prose proposed bill is to amend title to mo we county called to establish the metropolitan planning organization a revise and be revised proposed bill entitled a bill for an ordinance authorizing the mayor of the county of moly to enter into an intergovernmental agreement with the state of hawaii to fulfill federal and state transportation planning requirements relating to the molly metropolitan planning organization we often refer to as in people the purpose of the revised proposed bill is to authorize the mayor to enter into an agreement in the form attached as exhibit a to the revised proposed bill relating to most metropolitan planning organization and three correspondents data january twenty fifth twenty sixteen from the director of transportation transmitting a revised exhibit  passage of the revised proposed bills on first reading with or without further revisions the committee may also consider the filing of call to communicate fifteen dash to nine for and other related we have available here in the chamber as resources representatives from the department of transportation and public works open up the floor to meet committee member if you have any questions for public members any comments or questions for our department before we go through the b have to expand and we've guys able to come up with some numbers is that what this handout is thank you madam chair yes that is a council member koch on the handout the first less listing of our three fiscal years has a little over three hundred eighty eight thousand dollars that we expect to get for the planning from the federal government for the metropolitan planning organization once the metropolitan of which we have to provide twenty percent match once we provide create the county creates the metropolitan planning organization the county department of transportation as you can see over three f years will gain a little over five million dollars as discussed at the last meeting the fast act has not published the funding levels yet and the light  levels would likely increase so in a nutshell this is what we're looking at at this this time and the other side of your question was if we do not create m p o we stand to lose over two hundred million dollars in federal funding for projects in the other things that may be costing the county because we have to now we are now in urbanized  department the f b i i understand if i understand your question it's going to cost us the matching ten percent matching for the metropolitan planning organization right is it part of this is also the m s four i know it's not i mean this whole thing caused a lot of things to happen one is the n p r the other is the m m s for i thought there was one other thing that this tri i know the m s for is going to cost us more money than we're going to take in as far as i can tell and that's why i want to know what the differences are permit in p d s permit and under that permit and we have several requirements to fulfill we created a work plan through the work plan we determined what steps action items needed to be taken and from there we kind of figured a cost amount as to how much it would cost what kind of resources we would need and staffing so that public works has already taken care of we do  have that were discussed in last year's budget and some items that will come up in this year's budget as well department of transportation county department of transportation instead they handle the metropolitan planning director stated would be that match that yes the fifty i think it's fifty thousand dollars and that's what was calculated from department of transportation but i think we need to keep the two the m p o and the  far both separate programs because they don't mix but the same trigger triggered the thing if we for some miracle get somebody to remove exempt us from that trigger i don't want to necessarily lose the funds that the m p o would generate so that's why i am a little concerned i think madam chair that we should do this if there's and then because it's required by law and we need to get it going and we can actually trump the state in what we need to do for the stip most likely there's a couple of things or priorities that we that i think the county has over what the state thinks county wants that this could actually benefit us now because it is mandated i think we need to move forward with this today however there is a possibility that that may no longer be mandated i'm just curious to see what we're trying to accomplish to be with the n p r but if i understand you you're trying to define if the n p r if it doesn't happen does it effect m but has is really not in existence until we accept this correct if they if i understand it or don't accept it you know ok thank you thank you i know that it's required mandates but i can't recall if there was a deadline or is there sanctions imposed if we don't move forward on it but i can't recall that the last meeting because i know we had some some people here from the from honolulu and i can't recall what was said could you refresh my memory please projects as you know for highway projects sometimes timelines change you know for whatever reason if it was scheduled to happen here in in sixteen but for some reason it's going to happen at seventeen if we do not create the o and those things that are currently on the strip step which is about two hundred billion move they fall out they're caught the money is gone the project is gone and so over time we stand to lose that amount of money and on the f d a side we would start to possibly lose some of the funding as well it's not clear as to what funding we may lose but that some would be god what is the advantage from the transportation department side our side is this additional money that i have shown on this piece of paper to pot five million dollars where in the past the majority of our equipment rolling stock that we've bought has been with earmarks out of the federal government your marks are no longer available in the federal government from the federal government to to municipalities so this would give us an edge when it comes to that so that all of this federal money would come to us and of course we would have to provide a twenty percent matching but he said the the ramifications for not doing it are rather harsh but there is no  to do the fact that we could potentially lose those those projects which equivalent would be equal to two million the potential loss as you mentioned previously in your response read you like to respond to that and i my understanding in talking with staff from federal highway administration we did have a deadline to establish the m p o by two thousand and thirteen i think it was a year after we were told that the designation would take place you know we were told that we there was a urbanized area created we worked with federal highway i think well department of  under you know we we had discussions with the different federal agencies and they understand the situation that we are in for most jurisdictions on the mainland a lot of the smaller communities or a lot of the smaller counties or cities what they do is they join up with larger you know other metropolitan organizations they create their own in our case you know we had as an example but again you know we're divided by water whereas cities on the mainland are all connected in through their highway system federal highway worked with us for a number of years since two thousand and thirteen and in fact we're you know kind of told us right now state legislature is working on legislation trying to clean up some things that need to be taken care of so we kind of waited on that and during that time we did an interim n p r all mark was the basically working as the interim director and getting input from planning department public or and working with his transportation department staff we worked with the state department of transportation and we work together on creating items for submittal to for the step process so we did you know since two thousand and thirteen we had an interim m p o working and we did work with federal highway administration at this point we are being told you know try to get it get it work on getting it to fruition let's try to work on getting a comprehensive agreement completed and that's what we're trying to do today so in terms of a deadline yes we did have a deadline but federal highway administration knew that we had some challenges moving forward and were they were willing to work with us on establishing  of the funding for that too old to pay for these things that will come out of the metropolitan planning organization federal funding and then our match our match would be approximately fifty thousand dollars for that and then as you can see in the handout if it's a it's a yearly amount that we would get almost four hundred thousand dollars per year for this to operate the metropolitan planning organization we would certainly look new group housed say a county facilities that we could use then as in kind match to the federal money that could help to lessen our burden or our ten percent or fifty thousand dollars for the operation of the appeal ok so so what is your estimate for the new hillary expenses are more than what our matching you know so thank you very much chair thank you mr carroll any questions or comments before we go over the bill were we ever given a choice of creating a rural planning organization because they are they re such a creature for rural communities to do just british and planing no second u authorized this in to r with the different federal agencies just to kind of get more information on this to kind of help move it forward but in terms of any official m p o documents that needed to be signed no there was there wasn't any official signature two weeks ago on the phone two weeks ago he's been in communication with his deputy director sniffin and and and in those conversations  a plan to be at the table along with us they feel that they need to be a part of they are going to be a part of this so they would be putting in the their ten percent do we need to put that in writing  yes so just to kind of give you an update once this agreement moves forward we need to start working on the financial supplemental agreement which would still need to come in front of you guys for review and in there we have to work with the state to kind of put that together so i mean it technically in order for us to to spend any money is that financial agreement will have to be moved forward as well so i don't think that we're going to cough and never come back you know it will be back for those agreements as well well you can e mights other area is the circle so my current understanding is there is paul circle but there is no circle as of today is that good understanding on our part right so i believe that the circle you're referring to is the metropolitan planning area so the graphic that you're probably looking at the map that that was in the handout provided today that in that central  metropolitan tiny area is designated to encompass the entire hour in a maui moving forward the m p o need to either agree to that or potentially change it because the m p o and the down to simple language they resist no official circle yet no official circle and the red line that you discussed with us is how the feds justifying the minimal fifty thousand to make a stretch and yank part of the north sure did to me has always in my mind in my experience pushed to i mean to maintain that rural character is now being decided  appropriate where by then we would have better community understanding and buying instead of just some bureaucrat's and civil service position and police coming to us and saying this is what we think  best for you even if we don't live there description just as it is as there is there does it make sense to me to have that question put forth before then community from one perspective and again that's part of my issue with the feds is they try to separate and make everything not connected but it is connected  services or programs and the way things are going if i we don't get the right a sure insists the biggest beneficiary is small ok in our county because that is the untouched component but lanai we've already heard this i qualify for certain things with a circle around this island is interpreted in a way and we don't have the right documentation to fall back to justify highline other districts will not qualify for a lot of at this point our contacts at federal highways are saying you know push you need to move forward with the m p o because it is it is but i do willing to o that includes right rural areas such as why and i and they still are able to get c p g funding we did reach out to federal highways and ask you know do you know if hud and you know we're willing to to find out the answers to those questions but at this time according to the response that we received from from our chandler over at shoes i want those federal dollars of a curious thank you thank you so in reference to this city in addition to this email as part of the initial documentation that there's no effect in funding you as the department i think what i'm hearing from mr comic we can have that a formal correspondence of it depends on your community what we call the con plan and that's that's kind of your leverage i believe and but we'll you know so we get to have the already get money on the strip for our projects when our turn comes up so are you saying that there's other money that we normally wouldn't get on the step that is available i'm not saying it they can't touch the gucci who we spoke with advised that our federal money is in jeopardy and that if the state does not move forward i mean the m p o does not move forward we stand to lose the federal money ok because i mean we already get federal money on the step the and we're not a and have been n p o between now and then but that's because we hadn't been designated by the census with a population so that was the trigger which which occurred at the last census said ok so you're saying it's i c c you're saying because we got triggered to be form an m p now the also open doors for us in getting additional monies for transportation improvements facilities even in a multi modal type of facility is as well so there is a benefit in being part of that metropolitan planning organising or having one is that you do the study you get the monies for the study you do the study and then the federal and federal highways looks at it as though it's already been completed we've been a partner in this and when it comes time to do our tip that's one project that they'll look at is something that that favorable and worthy of receiving funding council member okama i look at what the m p o essentially is is a planning organization to help to organize between this especially the state and the county to organize projects prioritize projects with the input of the general public it's a public and people as a public driven process the federal monies keep the federal agencies are giving us the money to to for that process and on top of that populations i still see that how we plan our growth is still ours they're not telling us how did how we should grow this island where this island should grow it's based upon community input on our federal dollars and how we might better use them through that through the public process happy to hear that they're after because that's what they're going to expect for you to fight for our communities at the it's it's the federal it looks like the federal government driving all of this but our bottom line is it becomes more of our local control local government being in control of the projects that we move forward and i think that partnership having a partnership with transportation planning department the community especially even with our with our council members on board with the policy board i really think that this is something that will be a true benefit to our community if it really does come to that local control and again i thank you for your support circumvent our land use and planning decisions of how to move this county forward so again my skepticism comes from what i was served from the white house through the various federal agencies a  of the president has made pronouncements and that is why at the national level we therefore hard against the white house on this kind of rules because it is from a national point of view an infringement on  just kind of comments is like city it's federal monies but it's controlled by the community's input to determine what our priorities and and then the office looks at how it's been prioritized to see if the applications are in sync in into what has been established by the local our island has had opportunities of federal funds but it was driven by local and it decisions were made by by the community so i'm hoping this is something that is in line  from the department of transportation on the fiscal years summary and i know also that you have highway fund for administration program of fifty thousand dollars can you explain why we have this handout and is this money's already part of your line i don't know that we want to match that we need to match the four hundred thousand new explain that please yes the department you notice a patient of your moving forward you know why to have funds available essentially this is our current budget for this fiscal year and on page page fifteen which is from the budget it shows the matching funds that we would need which comes out of the highway fund and then the next page which is page series six which is from the the budget you allowed us to put that in when this came before you thank you for that ok thank you just trying to understand if we have to go in again and add for if it's exactly how it's coming i'm not really certain but that's if it comes as a check or if it comes now normally with federal funding it comes as a as a reimbursement the software have to work not sure the details but you know i'm not really sure and then that's how the state pays back so they have a revolving fund through state department of transportation and it's in our h r s and everything so the monies would come from the federal government and then they would but the m p o would invoiced city and county and the state that's that's my understanding of how awful works but as far as i think it could be a similar situation would you be because they have a heart board their own separate transit board of directors that they respond to the fare is regarding the federal funds so they report to the way what my understanding is i don't know for sure if they're part of the policy board but they are also an entity that provides monies to the oahu n p o so they also get invoiced so it's coming the match is actually coming from heart city and county and state so then and it just thinking does that if we move forward so that transit project that is already ongoing for who policy board for a whole m p o and in turn to your question in regards to when the feds give the money to the state for metropolitan hiding fines there is an agreement that will be  signed between oahu n p o and the maui m p o and how the breakdown of the funds will be distributed anything it's basically distributed based on the population with or or heart we wouldn't be in competition there is that already that distribution allocations of federal monies come from the state come from federal moneys come to the state there's that the currently you know the allocation that we receive that it never did it doesn't change there may be instances where sometimes for example county might get more of their their share because of priority projects and then the following year we wouldn't get as much because you got to share with our the big island so with that yeah doesn't you're the distribution allocation stays the same there's something called the transportation alternatives program and that one is for a lot of multimodal bikeways pedestrian paths for those monies who because they are a large metropolitan planning area the money has come directly to their policy board for those types of projects because we're a small imperial we would have to compete for transportation alternative program monies with the different colonies so things like record company b early exactly so things like safe routes to school any kind of bikeway type of projects we would still have to threshold i'm sorry yes because a lot who has two hundred thousand could there if there is a t n me they are transportation management area because they have to a population of two hundred thousand or more so the way they operate in a t n me they operate differently from a small metropolitan planning organization but if we ever become our get to that point then that would kick in different requirements and right now we're not looking at that they're looking at our current all of us w has no impact on the current projects right for the department of public works or no we have no it's not impacting our department in any way for our current projects get reimbursed for those for planning type of projects so things like the soft chance potations study in my discussion with federal highways i asked you know we are moving forward with that at this point the council is but we know that it will probably take some time before we can get reimbursed for that but that's one area that we could probably get some monies for in your discussions and looking at all of you what is your and just a pretty tame people to get this  going to concerts voted on and then we need to get several things in place prior to convening the board before the first meeting and so we would hope that within the next couple of months we can start to get that done and bylaws as such elect the chair vice chair of elect a have this is all the board now and that the board will then have a search committee for an executive director go through that process and and far and high hire an executive director so being that this is the first  february the monies are matching monies from the county that technically don't are available now the federal money is technically available now in our budget so we could move forward as fast as we can move these projects for i would hope that we could do it you know within the next few months i don't have an exact timeline on that but we've been trying to do some of that work ahead of time now so that we can we can push were is there any precedent for this and there is in the colony because salaries have to be paid etc so there is precedent for that with federal money so we can move this forward but our to actually hire the folks isn't in this budget it'll be we're putting it in and asking it for next year's budget which would once we start a budget process of actually be i'll be available july july  know for us in budget that was going to we're going to say whether or not we really need to put what the peak out because for me one is going to end up some county resources my understanding is that i'm the county control  they're independent of us in a sense as i understood legal counsel give us a perspective of this entity and that's why i'm trying to just figure out how we're going to get this all squared away because  independent of the county why do we need this bill to establish the m p on in the co and i you know because it's independent they're not county employees if the executive director and his or her staff with that four hundred thousand that you would use for part of your planning as far as operational so the federal money would come to us via a grant process like it always has we would reimburse we would ask for the money by reimbursements but we have to create create a chain of money to flow through the feds through the state to the county and expense and expen funds and then and then build it back of course so having to create how do you run that process through in order to run it through the government we have to through our systems we have to create th would allow us the mechanism to to cut checks to to give them the benefits that are required and then within the county system our financial system of those too cover the cost of of of of expenses and then and then subsequently get reimbursed by them and so as an example of that in housing under section eight those folks are think thank you madam chair this brings up a bunch of questions i thought the m p o was like you said not part of the county it is a different agency yeah we need to figure out a way to accept money and pay them and i guess with part of this agreement you can do that through department personnel services but in my mind as a as a county council member who deals with the budget that should or should not be on our books anywhere i mean they don't have to be civil service and i'm assuming they don't have to be union they don't have to at that department or that agency can do whatever kind of benefits they want for the two people there would they fall under our health care plan is that something that now the county has to pay for health care plan and if that's the case then the m p o gets money from the camera you know now we're we're not separate independent anymore we're kind of like this you know it's not a separate entity anymore and that bothers me is there any way throughout this whole process that eventually it will be a separate process a separate entity that doesn't have any to do with the county they have their own payroll system they have their own bank accounts they have their own check writing capability as opposed to get out of the county and again i think the agency is what i understand but do establish a board independent of the county so is it independent of the county and then then come back to why do we need this bill to establish the organization once we hit the threshold says that the designation shall be made by agreement between the governor and units of general purpose local government and then it also says or in accordance with procedures established by applicable state or local law the state law to seventy nine d provides that each policy board shall appoint a full time executive director and that metropolitan planning organization who shall be independent of state and county agencies and it does say that the executive director and staff appointed for an m p o shall not be subject to chapter seventy six civil service all other better it's generally a plausible to the officers that employees of the state shall apply to staff members of the natural paulton planning organization so we do have a mandate by the federal government to enter into this agreement the state has set up legislation that says how we're going to do it we start with the comprehensive agreement that what we start with the enabling legislation that says we can create the organization and then we work with the comprehensive agreement between the m p o and the state government and then they start to doing their business which is coming up with the financial agreements and the staffing and how they're going to operate their bylaws and things like that so it's a sequential bit of steps and apparently we've done this before with other federally mandated agencies and i can't think of what they are right now but they're in their memory county covered they've already been established so this is similar in the set up an establishment that we've done in the past with federal mandates mystical yet those federal mandates though don't say it's an independent agency do they this is an independent agency that can override not override but they get the public input for what goes on and they get to say what goes on the strip not what the county department of public works once they they're going to make those decisions independent of just the department of transportation or just the department of public works and correct me if i'm wrong but that that is a cohesive group doing the public's business rather than at department establishing it individually so that m p o although it's made up of complement a lot of us they really are separate and distinct because that body makes a decision hopefully it's going to be in concert with what everybody else mon and have no involvement in county government at all so that's what makes it not as quite as like these other entities that i'm just concerned about you know who handles the open who handles all the unfunded liability we created two more positions that we now have to do those benefits for is that something that the county is responsible for or the m p o is responsible for my understanding is that money comes from the federal appropriations for the n p o to operate and they pay those funds and we just have to be and an implementation of that ok so here's the big can of worms we have this unfunded liability that the count dealing with and they have zero power other post employment benefits for the people on t v that are handled by the county and paid for by the county now we have the other entity who two people least get and if it's now the federal government says the money the county send it to the n p o who then pays back into the county's opa unfunded liability account and open count or do they have their was sure that this is a completely independent board independent from county so i would think at that time i but the drawdown of the funds from the federal you know how they do it yes or mission one of the agencies that was created after a federal mandate was the now a redevelopment agency so this is similar in that context i don't use that as  question i guess is going to who's going to sign what paycheck and what bank account does come out i think when they get their bylaws and their organization up and running some of those decisions have to be made by that policy but ok so they can make those decisions and finally because that they're supposed to make o'clock thank you members the housing human services and transportation committee over at re can be ok i guess in recess we got some things clarified to shepherd the wish to explain further on how the employee and the operation is and then we can go over the bill thank you chair i can tell you what the state law says i can't tell you how to functionally perform these responsibilities but it does say that the policy board shall appoint shall appoint a full time executive director who shall be independent and then it does say that employees of a metropolitan planning organization are exempt from chapter seventy six but shall be eligible to receive the benefits of any state or federal employee benefit program generally applicable to officers and employees of the state their account totally independent from a separate also the state law says the metropole politan planning organization may enter into agreements with the county as needed to fully comply with all requirements of federal law and this chapter it may be placed within a state or county agency as appropriate for administrative purposes only n p o may contract to purchase goods and services including professional and technical assistance and advice they go on with some other contracting authorit so there is the allowance also of contracting and not mandated that so i guess this is where the m p o board would make that kind of if you still  where i think the way she read it it also is that board can use say the payroll system for maori county it says because it can use the ministry of functions of the county but be independent from do follow up letters and in regards to kind of the concerns that we have if this becomes part of the county agency and does the employee become part of the county agency versus the  remember me to him to review this bill with us before we make our determination a recommendation department well i think we need to at least go page by page and not having to read it all but you know let's see if we have sessions and what's been amended and what have you and which are and which bill are we looking to to recommend it's corresponding data in a chair if you're looking at my replied that i submitted dated february third two thousand and sixteen we have the first ordinance is the ordinance two i'm entitle how that organization is to operate they have to establish bylaws work on financial agreements figure out how they're going to enter relate with the county by supplemental agreements that it has been agreed yet but i don't think they can usurp federal code and the federal code says the m p o will designate the n p a so i think that is like a desire expressed there i don't think it's like obligation of the n i still think that subjective determination by the m p r well for us it's going to be to determine where the council allows the county to enter into an intergovernmental agreement because if the answer is no attachment because it's not an accurate reflection of what is but is an accurate reflection of the intent to assist to designate the m p o for this jurisdiction because we hit that census level so i think it is it is accurate as the day it was written it just doesn't have the authority to designate the n p a it does say that we're designating the m p o from our county it just doesn't have the authority to say the n p a is it is my point say that that's what the intent is here but as soon as we pass this bill with that exhibit does that mean we agree to that now that means that that letter designated the need for an m p o because of the senses threshold that work i'm going to ask the department and corporation counsel to assist us in going through the let's deal with the first bill at least to have an understanding that we have some clarity and understanding before we can accept or not accept this bill at the time that i recommend so mr shepherd and if you have any questions committee members i think we have the department as well as the shepherd because this is supposed to be an independent agency as opposed to you know so at that point when they want to get to a point where if they decide they want more people from the public to come on they can change  it then they go to the council and the ministration to amend the agreement but to have to go to the county to if they're independent from the county to have to go to them to subsection a says the m p l show operate according to execute a comprehensive agreement and the comprehensive agreement provides for the membership so i do believe it's already kind of in the code if we if this is approved i'm not i'm not sure you're asking me to change the submission to you by repeating what in the comprehensive agreement section in the code is that what what is being chosen now i think up of the you know members can can be changed it's more easily to be changed to be agreement that is being an amendment to the code as far as a conflict of interest that needs to be you know if it is an independent board that needs to be analyzed as well so i think that well if you term and when they approve their bylaws because it is required for them to have their conflict of interest policy place  i was just trying to thank us mr couch is concerned whether we can in fact put it in the code that rip him stating that it should be an independent board so  president vice treasurer things like that there's positions that are required under corporation law under our h r s so i would probably designate that in the same kind of category that we i'm talking about in the if it was an agreement versus in the code my stance is that if it's in the agreement and the agreement changes it has to come before council to change because the women change yes so that is correct the question is do we want council to have one reading or two readings on the change of the agreement if we put it in the code then it has to be two readings you know first and second because you have a bill it's not a resolution whereas if it was an agreement there would be in the form of a resolution that the council accepts that that change of agreement yes your chair yes i believe that is an accurate statement which is a big just because you're running just as you're looking at two different code sections now we would have to look at two code sections again if there's going to be a change in the membership if it's only in the one section then it would be just that one section that gets changed which is then not an amendment by resolution june twenty third keene the governor of the state of of what he advised that the state department of transportation and the county had agreed to designate the entire island of maui a metropolitan planning area to ensure a coordinated and integrity planning effort as reflected in exhibit attach here too and incorporate it here in by reference so i think we go back to that exhibit one when you mention it's just an attachment and but according to the bill it's really it's referencing exhibit one as like it is according exhibit one that you have attached to this bill and if it's not then we we should not have that comment on the june twenty thirt we got that the shepherd and then we are trying to determine at this point if you can add in or not add  concern about the composition i guess and authority of the members and that would be part of the comprehensive agreement  i guess i'm looking for your legal advice and this or or does the reference to the each iris in regard to the formulation about that but if you want to put in the membership specifically in two point three five zero three zero zero subsection a as delineated you can do that it just makes it more cumbersome any time there's any kind of changes because the policy board is self governing they can change their membership just through council agreeing to an amendment of that comprehensive agreement so i think there's no loss of power by having it only in the comprehensive to work hard to retain the jurisdiction of this board has its own powers by federal law and that's fine with me or just control which is control county money and that's good enough for me there i'm looking at the city and county of honolulu code their city code and there is language in there regarding committee membership so it's the designation of  it's in there section four dash two point three under committee membership and it provides information about the mayor's appointees to the policy committee i mean they have their own language in here but i think maybe we can work together and putting in our own language in our own code that would specify the membership as it relates to just those from the county i think we can do that at least more making it more difficult to for it to be changed chair the only reason it's still it's supposed to be according to a terrace and federal code an independent body and if there's code in the maui county code that says well you're not really independent you if you want to change your makeup you have to come to us and if we decide no then too bad there's no longer independent in my mind yes i see that it's in a while because you know i just still think if we want this to be an independent board then it shouldn't be in the code or should be in this in the agreement it is it then is it an automatic that it's the members of the department as well as citizen to be part of the membership who determines who sits on their initially and i think that's where you know part where the council is looking at all of this is in reference to the part being part of the composition of membership that we can have a better understanding and maybe i can put this forward in your opinion what it's determined on the membership is not sufficient and you want and he brings up a good point why thing is if it then it is truly what you know if is one which is an independent then why ask me and why is this council to create it to decode technically i mean the mr okama has an excellent point technically i would have to imagine it should be a charter amendment that we're not there i know we're not there but i mean that's where that that's the level i think it should be but that's going to take forever yeah yeah i guess so at this point yeah now we have to have it in code but then why do we have to have it in code if if it's a if it's something that is mandated by the federal government and  u so if they telling us this is your responsibility like anything else if we don't want is going to create this creature i really want to retain the right to kill this creature let's go for let's let's have a motion from that mr comma i have a motion three steps resolution from council to accept the agreement and then also a bill to change the maui county code which is has to be heard twice so we've got three cracks at it so we're adding a little bit more red tape which i understand if it goes that way that's what what happens but i just want the members to know that's now three cracks because you have to change the agreement which is a council resolution and then you have to change the code which is to a bill which is to charter requires so again depending upon the interpretation of this that is regarding the resolution component council may do two readings on it like we've done on other resolutions every year to the broad thank you where it says exception number three exception less than a quorum of policy board members may discuss now m p o business without limitation outside of a duly notice meeting of the policy board pursuant to section two ninety seventy nine c h r s which is very interesting i wish we had that cave in however does that you know if they discuss it outside can they vote i know they won't be this is state legislation allowed that ok all right thank you madam chair that was one now for the language that we just put into the code where it says three members of the maori county council appointed by council chair is it a situation where the chair they decide they don't like the way it's going and he wants to remove some of the members can that happen there's nothing in there about removing a member and i'm i'm a little concerned that you have it and not saying that this chair in the chair that of anybody that here that would do that but at some time somebody could say well i don't know i don't like the way council member shepherd is handling this committee so i'm going to remove that person and put a specifications regarding terms term limits of members by alter net's quorum and other considerations that so but i just want to add what i'm hearing it's from the a terrorist is the actually by laws will determine you know and obviously if you had your term agreement or committee by laws that establish policy board membership may also include specifications regarding x official membership terms term limits of members member alternates quorum and other considerations i submitted by law jurisdiction if we choose to adjust the exhibit because that's part of the approval or if you tell me why you stick it or leave it i know how to vote on this request for the specific  so i just wanted to see if this is an agreement that is still fluid enough for us to make revisions to or and this is in final for may we take it or leave it i think we'd talk about least at first failing to remove the exhibit say the policy board shall determine the members of the technical advisory committee the chair of which may be a voting member of the policy board does that now mean that the policy board has eight members voting members so you're saying  i'm just wanted to make sure that it's clear that there's not an eighth now that that person is now not an eighth member and therefore must be a voting member of the policy board i don't think it must be a voting had a question earlier and we removed it from the other code section and page two of the comprehensive agreement we again refer to that june eighteenth matter i don't think it's a rania's to refer to the route to the letter  correct that one section by omitting that language then it would be consistent with what you've made in the other change no objections members to enter into an intergovernmental agreement in the farm a catch here two as exhibit a which is our comprehensive agreement other necessary documents relating to the agreement and any mostly i would agree with that the question is is this standard boilerplate language that we've always had if it is that we have a huge problem with all the other government agreements we agreed to but i certainly agree that we need to move that  delegation talks about who can and have delegates from the state d o t person may designate del delegate to department directors of may designate the deputy director doesn't say anything about council what if we have a situation where the council member can't make it can they designate a delegate or are we just out of luck on that meetings and what have you and the other two are or one of the other could be there on their behalf as opposed to the department of transportation director at and or deputy why can't the council but i understand also that you know we have voting here with responsibilities here and so if you had a fourth council member that i would think you could only add a another council member as your delegate then all of a i i understand what you're saying but i think at that time it would come from policies from within the board as to how they would determine how proxy voting will be handled so i don't know in my opinion i don't know why we need to have that list that unless member is part of that delegation that what we're talking about if you do want in addition to your three council members and alternate to pass these two bills i will meditate a motion as long as i'm satisfied that we have no further discussion or comments or any other yes mr good's that you're just on the last item that we were discussing did really did really come to terms that account some one of the designated council member who has voting rights can designate a substitute you know we've left it as such we have three voting  with their requests from staff world the evening of housing human services and transportation committee where we can be thank you committee members i appreciate their recess and i'm going to ask you to turn to go back do what two and i'm going to ask miss shepherd to please give us an explanation why we need to revisit this and do a consideration again on the consensus thank you chair that section about amendments i thought that we were only striking the last phrase and that and any amendments there too but i was surprised that the consensus was to strike all of section two is the consensus i don't know for the we had consensus to delete all other words yesterday exhibit a all right my only comment to that would be if there is agreements that deal with the county administering the support services do you want that all of those individual agreements to come back here if there's no financial impact or what are you referring to two hundred two point twenty two of the maui county code america can enter in to agreements or amendments to those agreements which don't place financial obligations on the county or any department or agency there of and that stated in section one of the end on the top of that page and then section assume is a little bit inconsistent with that if he says the i can't enter any other necessary documents relating to the agreement but he could under their code if they don't have a financial impact so i just want to make sure that we've got this not inconsistent yeah i know what i'm aware of what the county will be agreed to write to and agreement and that we know when things come forward we are prepared to do with those issues that that's how i saw our and really badly weighted by the parties and you know we and the agreement is that the parties would try to work it out i'm just trying to understand who is the parties is it just the state and the counties the parties or is the parties all seven members that make up the policy board is the part i just want so you know maybe if someone could give us some good understand what is the party speaks i'm going to asma shepard first of all to try and define parties the parties addressed on page twelve would include the governor and then mayor for the county of maui who is authorized to enter into the comprehensive agreement by this ordinance and then it apparently the way this is structured the ordinance is structured to reserving that authority to make any amendments there to also subject to council approval of any further amendment to i g a so i believe that if there were to be an amendment the a minute before the  sign it would have to come back through due for approval before the mayor could sign in to an amendment of the i g a conference of agreement and then you go from there i don't know whether with the chicken any any further comments are questions in regard to our agenda item be viewed as it is informs who makes the determination with it if it's a budget committee meeting as the chairman do i make the determination whether it's a public forum or not or does the future potential was the board budget meetings for the department of planning public works and transportation may serve as citizen farms yes that used to say shall service citizen forums it was changed in may so that it's an option for inclusion in the there says and for i think when they develop the public participation plan they have to determine how that public input is going to be made right now this says that that is an option that they could work that into their public participation plan of the policy board so it's up to the policy board to develop and implement a public participation plan they don't have to have that second sentence in there that was in there as an option for them to consider this signed and i would like to entertain a motion to recommend passage on first reading of a revised revised a revised proposed bill and titled a bill for an ordinance amending title the state of hawaii to fulfill federal and state transportation planning requirements relating to the moa metropolitan planning are going isolation and three filing of county communication fifteen dash passage up first reading they were i hear any further discussion mr cutts i just want to receive a real quickly thank you for bringing this through and who knew that at this stage in your life you're going to have thank you mr holcombe i appreciate all of your contributions and and your support so that we can move forward on this any further discussion and also in this motion is to allow staff you members and members we have completed today's agenda and we have no further discussion and nothing else to go further i thank you again for your support thank you department thank you thank you fo