letter there is no property there but this connection to to barry lane when woodlands face three was developed the developer dedicated right  all the way to the property line there is no a job a land it has to be given permission to take up the news very late through i can just go on and on and there's just not anything in here that   general layout is to get from the ferry lane down the boy or the developer supposing this connection here to boy or the plan is to restrict movements out of the neighborhood and force them down to this connection to be there's better sight distance down here then up above in addition to that we've got mr taylor the developer who's here tonight agreed to make some improvements down here to make sure that the vehicles that will be using this can use it safely we're in the plumeri plan stage planning commission approve the plenary plan subject to that those improvements here being worked out with our traffic engineer which we are still working  planned forty foot rider with twenty four feet for the paving and you had to the difference was street royal and then they went to fifty feet which meant twenty four feet to the front of the garage in normally the garage six eight ten feet in front of the front door so you have seventy seventy two feet to the front door so i think when you go three car garage with all these other amenities you're on into trouble and in the ten percent grade at the actually the worst ten percent rate we're like trying to build a four lane highway in a subdivision that doesn't work we just cut in too much mr taylor i understand what you're saying about people wanting bigger houses and about them wanting additional inanity but i think it's backwards a little bit to try to make the lock accommodate a house as opposed to mak plant accommodate a lot because the size of the lights could potentially increase in different ways and you know we set up the ordinances for certain reasons so it seems sort of backwards i appreciate what you're saying as far as market the one i believe before we even presented to the township we met with the adjacent homeowners association and that was probably one of the most sensitive areas that we saw in the course of our design that we wanted to try to be as road and then we have one transmission so we feel that we ended up proposing a little bit more disturbance on the site was just not a significant amount or maintaining the i guess the major areas of  sometimes at my home in it's on my to be able to get out and that affects my business also if i'm not able to get my truck up and i think there will be a consideration  hill there's always a break in the traffic at the top because or somebody is going to make the left under from your feet down but i would again i would just ask counsel to for your prove anything i think that something should be done to see about they can happen an power hill but if we remember while back we asked for a stop sign there and the state said that that doesn't meet the requirements for a stop sign so i'm not sure when there potentially would be a light that's one comment to slow that traffic down right where mr harvison was talking about but as far as volumes of traffic any place that you can cut through people well mr ball can attest to that when we were talking about traffic calming in his plan and all the other plans you've seen that mr barclay swan people are cutting through your plan when they're close to be about bridge where people can go to get somewhere faster they will and this b n at the bottom of the buyout enough to buy our hill school will be a or land envelopment shall be co ordinated and by such which integrates such locations deemed necessary to accommodate prospective traffic in facilitate fire protection all external points to the new residential subdivisions will be required gateway treatment defined as follows and there is an able to traffic calming area process signage center and to a landscape median entry island or roundabout at the external intersection so this is an external intersection on the professional traffic engineer professional traffic operations engineer do not see a landscape median or round about connecting very lane with the new development that being said i would like to point out a few items  meeting we were told that the residents would be invited back for a second follow up meeting to refine in to refine the play and as it moved from plymouth area to eventual final that never happened i want a letter to council dated june eleventh i received a response back from trans associates it was not a full blown traffic study many of the responses were subjective in nature and speculative you what you cannot determine what the cut through traffic is going to be without doing in origin destination study in actually determining via the connection of the w follow up letter to council and dated july fifth i believe that i responded directly to transit so she had comments i trust that you have those in those or in the record as well point here that i think the the operational concerns that i have as an engineer and i'm a little on a little surprised that these weren't raised as part of the poem mary planned although we've already heard  from our previous speaker and i'm concerned about the inner connection to developments here and vantages and disadvantages to the interconnection and i'll point out some of those in my next life be th are access points are her rent this year increasing traffic by six hundred percent at least ok and i'll discuss that in my next slide in the lack of a comprehensive traffic assessment for this plan of forty two houses that's connecting another hundred that has plans so also connect i don't know what maybe fifty sixty another hundred is an oversight by the planning commission and it needs to be a comprehensive traffic study  and disadvantages of the interconnection i understand it's peter's policy to interconnect developments for emergency as a secondary emergency access for example  dispersion of development traffic to could be some benefits to that i don't know without looking at how the trips are dispersed throughout the neighborhoods but there are numerous disadvantages that i see time in and time out again and i'm saying this is an expert back in the early ninety's i wrote a comprehensive traffic neighborhood traffic management plan for metro dade county so you can google me and look it up and you could read about the neighborhood traffic management this is what this my concerns are about you're going to get cut through traffic increasing resident traffic complaints you might be seeing that some of that already increase in taxpayer funded traffic calming studies after the developments in place you will see that i guarantee you for the whispering pines people who have yet to buy houses and can't be represented here tonight and then and then there's a lot of movie developing features that you access in mind or in the trans associates response they indicated there was no site distance issue  i would disagree with that training associates assessment that there's no sight distance issues at that intersection again let me remind you you're adding about six hundred percent more traffic to that intersection  if you look in the front of the picture here you can see where traffic deserve to utilize the grassy area of the intersection to access boy road boy road to sixteen foot sub standard local road does anyone remember nipped in their driver's manual how many feet before intersections thirty boys and three hundred at thirty five miles an hour if you turn ramp and they'll be exiting on to boy at about thirty five miles an hour forty on a sixteen foot road to live in the east and west intersection problems so in conclusion  road intersections they weren't meant for an increase of forty two or hundred forty to two hundred more houses to be accessing just they weren't designed for that and identified an required in and let let them be installed now not after the fact and finally i would and i would look at the inn i would study this and this is this is a perfect prototype project for our next for the next development that comes along it wants to interconnect and the next one after that we're going to have that systemic issues further on down the road as we develop and build our system developments in tie them we've got to look at not only the positives but some of the negatives and you can't just be subjective here you've got to look at the numbers that's why we're engineers we we look at the numbers i'd be more than welcome to answer any questions that anyone consular staff has regarding the basis of my conclusions and analysis like i said i did do i did go out there and measure the site distances and they do not meet the criteria at three seventeen wanna drive there's going to be increased traffic not not only in front of your home the college sector free of that traffic it comes past our house i don't know about you all but the economy's taken a dive and we've all suffered home value loss take a look at the amount of traffic that's going to come across i'm sorry you live in bunker hill sap who is the mom of traffic coming through bunker hill did you enjoy that i challenge we don't want to we don't want  communities connecting like that it's going to depreciate the value of our homes in danger start children even more you're looking at adding all those times take a look at old trail where do you think your trail is going to cut through to go to traffic which you know others will disagree you prove through you right i understand that i don't know if that's been exactly all clarified from what i understand there were some doubts and still questions about that and le but if you look at the amount of traffic that you're going to get from old tram and from that side of peters that is already in the process of being even more developed there cock through to bar hill alimentary is going to be that route and  therefore there's going to be all the traffic going through and past our homes in that area and just just like your mom depreciates from length of the age and not caring for it most people do care for their homes there but just basic depreciation from increased traffic does the value your home and i think if you go and you do a little bit of research you will find out i mean it's just it's just crazy and i can't imagine that you that everybody doesn't realize just what the going to hop over bunker hill well the trail was out and you speak to those people i have a lot of friends that live in that neighborhood it was an issue for them it increases their traffic it brought all of everything from that side through their land and that's what you're talking about doing to us it's not just going to be the new development it's going to be a major cut through to bar hill elementary school and if you add up those homes fifty three fifty thousand any time to buy three kids in each town that's two hundred ten can't that's a lot of traffic and i really think that it needs to be heard this is great you want to develop it it brings more business to peter's township in increasing our economy people want to move here more i moved to peter's from my present claire because i felt that there was more you had more suburban you didn't have to deal with all the track you didn't have to deal with all the cuts through and i know it's important to connect the communities but i think there are certain communities that that you have to evaluate is it a benefit to that community or is it going to damage that and i think everybody has to remember that schools that's up there and that is the major access you take a look at how many people in this township write their kids to school i want to i want to and i write my kid to school then you've got the bus and then you've got the parent traffic then you've got to cut through for the activities after school it's just going to be a mess and it's going to be really unfair and it's going to change the neighborhood to the point that you're not going to feel comfortable letting your kids go out and we already had restricted land we have quarter quarter lot quarter acre lot and once again i disagree with the whole plan i think there's another way that this could be approached in redesign so that it works for everybody  anthony had he cut the background keven and so i speak from the boys of a parent a mom and we all have been spending time talking and saying how it's really going to increase the flow of long time so take it for what it's worth not a design engineer around engineer i'm an arse practitioner it comes from my heart avoid all the traffic that's going to come this way true about families i have four small children and that actually to be quite honest with you that played a big role in moving to the other house is that there is going to be a significant amount of traffic that goes in front of this side of people in the community and in stewards of the community i think that that should be considered in a priority when you look at the approval of these plans and then the other just to the argument that  the rules are said you guys laid out the rules on how to develop unique and to change the set backs because we want to build a bigger house to  inside this specific development just like the arguments are made about others so i think you're hearing my arguments and thought i believe i was first out building phase three about seven years ago that time phase one was complete phase two was when i was pretty well on its way phase three was a wonderful new section of this plan and we were the plan at that time quite honestly was as we were told by our own when we lived in that plan is that that road there's no proof there are no plans for at that time there was no real definitive thought to whether it i bought it's a wonderful wonderful place i have three i've been there seven years i've got three children which is seven was pretty much born in that spot and has come to enjoy a minimal amount of traffic  understand i'm not naive things change people by development and all that sort of thing i guess my point is if i run another community communities i've come from where i was raised and a new development is planned the answer is no and it is on the burden of the developer to prove beyond a written any doubt that the safety of the folks that live in that land are being account point value the second get a little motion here spot pardon me what i'm asking for is simply we put i'm putting safety my children and the children of each of my neighbors in the hands of  i appreciate we have this we've made several points here this evening i heard a lot of points made about potential safety things and potential issues and potential things that might happen those potentials are real to me because i have children the play was about fifteen other children within that little area there were copper calling barreling it seems to me very simple if a traffic study is what's required t guarantee the safety of my children in the rest of children in that plant why would we do that after what we say yes now let's move forward a little we'll figure that out later why would we do that why wouldn't we want to be absolutely certain that my children and everybody still in this room we're going to be safe ahead of the game why we're going to say yes to this before we even know that answer so my request to counsel is please consider that the state sanctioned whoever knows the best that's not me about a traffic study that going to guarantee the safety of our children whoever that is go get them please bring them in and let's get this figured out before we're asking questions later that's roundabout or whatever it was i will guarantee you beyond a shadow of a doubt that that for sale sign will go up on the house on that house for whatever event whatever it is i owe for it which is probably about sixty to seventy percent of though i agree that there are benefits to creating secondary access points to neighborhoods this is one exception the negatives clearly with benefit planning commission has indicated that its primary reason for secondary connection is to create an alternate route in the what i find most disturbing is the short sighted vision of the positives of the secondary connections while there's been given little or no consideration to the negatives in this particular case is time and time again from everybody here the woodlands design is that of a unique community to family community would reduce setbacks it's conducive to an abnormally high amount about dora street activity especially for small children the current excessive speed limit of twenty five mph which noted is the same as much as the major arteries  peter township two lane roads that are divided by lines and so forth will drastically increase the danger to dest reince especially small children's lives regardless of the posting of any speed limits or any signage that they want to put up as a restriction  any resident of our neighborhood can testify to the continuously repeated violation of speed limits and additionally there's currently don't work whatsoever such limits there's no means for law enforcement to enforce a speed limits here due to limited visibility the vast car lines obviously small children as well and i gets get very scared of stuff everybody gets left foot everybody gets a little bit and every now and then sometimes we lose sight of what's important but that you know the fact is we can obviously can't force people with their i understand but given that back in your hand  and i witnessed and stole all my immediate neighbors to the fact that i watched them speed markers put out there and because of the location where they were vehicles were backing out of the drug ways those speed measurement device were causing the nipple aided by the vehicles the police had to keep coming out in resetting the vehicles now they noted that there was a speed issue the entrance to the plant that they noted no speed issue down on on our section of what iraq which is funny you say vehicles that are creating the speed issues the entrances are not creating the same speed as you down in my section which  that we have to reduce setbacks the proximity the street the abnormally high street activity in this community it is just conducive to a very very serious situation you know the ability to not let that happen right now commission but these concerns are dismissed in fairly nice connected as proposed against better judgement i can also say that the currently proposed traffic calming fits in whispering pines is completely inadequate proposing these little intersection traffic circles it really looks good on paper and i'm sure shift and i believe that this is what the developer wants to selling advantage i also have to say that the last meeting held by the planning commission was disappointing at best when the area residents brought their concerns as they had every right to planning commission ultimately ended up debating as to whether or not they were voting on the entire plan revised or just a set back issue that one point was that the entire wish preponderant total had been rejected by counsel due to the setback issues and was subject to all concerns by the community but this conclusion was quick reversed as one commission member raised the issue in the uncertainty of what they were voting on it and insisted that they basically nor the concerns presented by the residents in just vote on the revised back issue  individuals within planning time and time again with planning has been confronted with valid concerns of the stack the residence irritation of prostrations have been demonstrated when the ability to get rapid approval of mr taylor's proposals potentially  during a conversation that night it was actually bluntly stated to me one point time i will get into specifics that we only did we are obligated to do and i found that very disappointing for my twenty three years of this township it also appears to me based on  traffic engineer did not adequately address the traffic operational deficiencies stated in in light of mr taylor's with all due respect his comments earlier regarding you know what communities want as far as the size of the backyard or whether or not create alter the entrances and exits the term propose was proposed plan suggest a future connection to days into the farm property that we're talking about earlier and it would satisfy their unwritten desire so to speak for secondary access to and from that community on a side note of if the primary something infecting the first fourteen units of the entrance to create a situation where secondary access would be needed in other words any situation fire or so forth anywhere else in the community all their eighty seven units have alternate routes to get out towards the exit of the community so we're talking about that one little stretching piece of land interesting community rated it's only forty residents right there and i just thought that was an interesting note that being drop a seed of record in all those areas range anywhere from twenty five to seventy plus resumes no secondary access no plans no it's not going to happen it's my contentions proposal has been mishandled from the start and it completely ignores the potential problems and a need to cripple traffic study and those trusted with creating a development beneficial for the entire township have chosen to ignore these problems they spend so much time concentrating on whether or not they could they never stop check whether or not they should i would also like to address the plan commission's recent approval of the developer's request to begin trading the land in the interest of saving time such an approval simply must not be allowed given the lack of full approval of this development in the critical services they have yet to adequately be addressed i respect mr taylor's right to develop his land i find no means want to take away from it when it hit land he purchased it even though i and like everybody else i welcome the tax revenues and so forth but i'm not going to do it at the expense of safety and especially to my children as well and i six paragraph seventy six seven attempt of subdivision land in sullivan ordinance with and without barry lane and where room connections let's look at the alternatives here otherwise your constituents will be paying for future coming traffic calming studies if the very one connection is made taxpayers pay for future comic studies when the developer can do it right now and avoid the problems versus futile attempts to fix them then a later time i have not read any ordinance that indicates the preference or requirement of the township to maximize a div with the developers profits and i certainly would never expect an elected leader to do so especially when it compromises safety this is one case where we need to recognize that the connection is very lean in this current proposed form a compromise and safety to a greater degree than it is to enhance it there are far too many red flags to allow a sprint time to progress as  past any loopholes technicalities passed any manipulation of any ordinances represent your community just do the right things   i took it upon myself to go out and meet with as many residents that i possibly could to get through the whole neighborhood lots of people on vacation but i will tell you that what i have so far everybody is opposed to so i think that was a little bit of a misrepresentation of what the neighborhood really won in the woodlands so i just wanted to make sure that i was heard at least on that subject i'd be happy to finish every single house in the woodlands as soon as possible but was a little hot last week to go out and do so just like to say that you know i understand you know that people what amenities index pools in their backyard but i don't really feel that that shit effect in our neighborhood so  come through there and there will be a lot of traffic but forty half million dollar houses is has really increased has been summer neighbors don't want to talk about that but the bottom line is if you're happy if your house is in peter's township it's five hundred to eight hundred thousand dollars so i'm not concerned about to be valuing my property but i am concerned about the traffic i think all my neighbors did it all very well they had all the big points and so i guess today i just want to be on the record the new year but i know that i own with my neighbors and we are here hoping that you guys can come to a plan that works for all of us  well ok i just wanted to point that out that i think you should keep that in mind that would be a lot of traffic every single afternoon during the school year that i'm not looking forward to and  told by partly in homes that barry lane would never be connected anywhere and that's why i think many of us are upset i have spoken to quite a few people that were told that because it does look like it's going to connect to were actually two parcels the one where the quarter sat at the adjacent to what lenses and then the part lower but those two separate parcels there for a period of time they still are two separate parcels mr taylor owns a piece here  the plan at that time as it was told to me by that of those folks is that they either had access to purchase it or owned it i honestly don't know that that area behind their so they chose to this is a closed community what the plan would be as they may build another cul de sac at the end of that road to add on to the woodlands plant and i'm like ok sounds good to me going to have a close community that's why i'm moving in here i'm on the level spot in fact  top at the top of hill one across this way would have been perfect again i'm not naive i know business things happen i understand developers come in and want to buy that part we didn't want to continue to the development on it were having trouble finishing off some of the final it was in our in our face three at that time because the economy was to prison rough i completely understand all that and really it's not anybody's fault in this room that it's that that's changed but for the record let's be very very clear that we as folks in the woodlands were told very clearly at the beginning of phase three that that was the plan there was no talk of an interconnection between communities and certainly not the street through connection to be kitchen and he brought his concern to us situation i am not saying that the valid these are not valid concerns they are coming to the forefront more so now then as i say anthony did bring up traffic concerns i took the traffic concerns to planning and mr zogby and i took the concerns about the safety of our children i believe that they were to be addressed in the consideration that mr is a political and need development at the i was presenting it that we would have to have preservation of the nature of the woodlands with trees and hedge maintained as much as possible we wanted to have traffic calming as much as possible because we did not want any more additional traffic coming through than was absolutely necessary we be no construction traffic coming through our plan at all these are all concerns that were brought up at that meeting at the meeting of the board and we felt that we were taking them to the correct people i realize that mr taylor has the right to develop his land and i don't think anyone within the woodlands would say he does not have a i think that he had a meeting with us he has heard our concerns i think that we may need to go further but i think that it should be noted that the township and mr taylor have been trying to talk to us the fact that the letters has been sent we're having a scattershot effect here and i just want to say that they have been working with us and i don't want to be confrontational but i do want to get to the final agreeable situation between a developer and all of the residents  somebody is on my tail back there ok and then i go down boy or go down the other way and try to make a left hand turn down the bottom of that road i can't my whole car takes up the whole road trying to make that car no opposite way coming from finleyville trying to get on boy or you're taking your life into your hands say or because people come flying down that hill and you can just start to go over there and those people at you and i lived there for thirty years and i've seen the difference of people coming down the aisle so i do not feel you know love been there for thirty years and it's a nice quiet street and i don't appreciate the fact that we're going to have all these people coming down at a high speed contained in our later date of june twenty first mr kast the one that submitted two letters one dated june tenth and one dated july fifth and has brought up several points on the traffic access issues which he reiterate tonight and i can address some of those the first question of you know should there be a traffic impact study conducted for this development the development of forty single family homes when we look at the volume of traffic new traffic that would be generated by this only meets about fifty percent of the threshold requirements the threshold requirement under the ordinance is one hundred peak hour trips this proposed development will generate proximately half of that now the point was brought up should a trap begin pack study be done and the threshold be looked at by adding in the woodlands traffic in addition to the whispering pines traffic policy has always been with the township that in packs study requirement is based on the new development not adding in the additional traffic in the adjacent development as well so on that basis we did not recommend that a traffic impact study be conducted i really don't believe that a traffic impact stud be there any information about traffic capacity which is the main issue with the traffic impact study on the access points into this development but i do want to kind of put it in perspective as to what might a traffic impact studies show more than fifty percent of the woodlands traffic would have to come through whispering pines to tray that requirement to put it over one hundred peak hour trip so that gives you one perspective as to how how much cut through traffic would have to exist for there to be a significant impact the other issue is the township has a traffic calming policy that you have to generate more than six hundred vehicles a day on a residential street in order to have defined as a traffic calming problem this development is so small that even if one hundred percent of all the woodlands traffic cut through this development you still would not need that sixteen hundred vehicles per day  looking at the perspective from those two different ways i don't believe their traffic impact study would be required there's been a lot of discussion about would traffic cut through one trip one neighborhood to the other yes that will happen but given the size of the two i don't believe that that's going to be a significant volume of traffic this development whispering pines isn't your first development that is incorporated traffic calming features into the design now that's intended mainly to address speeding within the neighborhood but it will address any cut through traffic that might occur through the neighborhood as well the second comment that was brought up related to the need for pandai to review a traffic impact study or depend on to get involved in this there is no direct access onto a state highway i feel that the townships ordinances more than a draft any issues that might be created the townships ordinances are very similar to panned in terms of when is a traffic impact study required is there a safe inadequate location for getting access into the development so i think that the ordinance really cover that road yes it is the third issue that's been brought up is is the access this being proposed on the boy or via on to be about is that adequate that was a concern from the very beginnings of play this and when it was first submitted trans associates in evaluation we looked at alternatives we did a site distance evaluation of the two lands of boyer to see if sight distance was sufficient and our conclusion was that yes there are some options but perhaps the road could be pushed through to be bout there were some evaluations done of that looked at in the field the conclusion was it's not physically possible to make the connections and meet the township standards for the grade and vertical curves of the roadway since that time very recently the developers engineers done some additional design studies to look at that i think they're prepared to present them here tonight to talk about whether it is feasible to make a direct connection to be about road but my evaluation in terms of the access options i believe that what's being proposed is adequate i believe there is adequate sight distance at the intersection of boyer road with the road mr kaplan presented some additional information tonight saying that it's not adequate i haven't seen that information so i really can't  i think that the access from bowel road is much more direct to get to the school and to access through this neighborhood where you've got to access beep out to believe you're through a neighborhood that has traffic calming devices and then go through the woodlands neighborhood where some seem to be to resolve in a very very simple way all of the issues are raised nicely just during the fifty's and we have other deficiencies like that in the township and we can work around those we're right now or what they're going to change the plan around to give morons on it and we're going to make a change in allow them to do that that's cool and that's in the best interest of probably the planet and everything that's involved so what we're saying now is what can we come across that they're going to come up with to come up with a solution i'm not an expert on engineering this stuff i don't know i'm just getting there is a very simple flaming gone to jail or really doesn't have any value in connecting the two plans we would prefer you didn't have the resonance of the these folks have some very very serious concerns about changing their style right one barry lane and it's seen in forums are boiling on boyer it seems to me just a layman just as a honest person there's a plan anyway and we noted earlier as i noted there's going to be a lot of excavation work that has to go on here just to make this a viable plant why wouldn't we make that excavation whatever is required to meet big code to make a good they obviously didn't change their style of life the folks that have been living on a small road for thirty years and come to do we have done a lot of engineering in this township there's a bridge a brand new bri to the east of that there's been a lot of other people and i don't you know i really don't know why they would want to take a pretty securitas route through there but presumably some people would and in the opposite to of testimony tonight has been that you know if you think about ok here's the advantages to the to the connection interconnection and there's a disadvantage nazi in a lot of disadvantages and we we have as a policy discussion many many times and i can tell you from experience that this cut through traffic is always much worse when you talk about at this point and what really is in reality the rest of township is is done quite well with connecting these plans and you can sit back and shake your head all you want but let me tell you the truth ok the impact in your mind now is far greater than it's really going to be other communities deal with cut through traffic is not a bad word is not a dirty word it disperses traffic and it's what makes it better for the rest of intersections i like the more perpendicular i think that would be a i much preferred condition to correct what i consider to be a mistake in the current plan to exit on the border and make want me to be been eight years like ten years ago in ten years this time and i've heard all of those years and in essence each time we've pretty well stood our ground over to the importance of the action we made one mistake in bowing to requests to put in some emergency crossing only we had to take back out after a few years i don't think  night on my soapbox here for the community is we spend hundreds of thousands of dollars trying to control speeding every one of us and our neighbors or the reasons for the consequences would be more severe to the grave site i'm not prepared to agree that it's the best intersection to be about but i would probably not eliminate the property if you're pretty damn well certain over the next somebody years it's gonna be a housing development there and that's why this brode was put there and that's why we put the sign out to let people know that there was a possibility that that but two thousand and ten peters township we raised over ten thousand dollars so this year we're hoping to increase got in on the states perspective we do we're best to make sure we're safe  the proposal i'm going to discuss with council does not include them first on behalf of my clients i'd like to thank the council in the township for allowing this proposal to be heard i was here as an observer the last time this issue was discussed with council and it was a very interesting discussion what is going on as you already know is the developer of this plan misused a portion of the lien involved in the development there clearly and that exists over the limit of the sturgeons line that was supposed to be conservancy open space the developer then deeded this lead to the township while it was in violation of washington county conservation district and some of the rules of the township planning commission the council had ordered them before unfortunately the eventual resolution of this issue now rests between the township and its residents several years later my clients are in the unusual and unfortunate position of proposing is solution to a situation that was not caused by them however through research persistence a good faith a proposal has emerged which will if approved solve problem for all concerned elaine the ball does not build a ball vacant land that was used as the dump for building waste my client's interest in that land is simply to maintain it beautifier and have it be correctly categorize township and its residents it's my understanding that some of you have actually been to the area and observed it was simply put the proposal for your consideration which we believe is easy and permanent is that in exchange for a payment of the fair market value of the land involved as well as all costs associated with the transfer my clients request that the small section of land be converted to unit under the rationale for this propos it also provides the opportunity to correct errors in the townships deeds which for this parcel has meets the bounds errors behind both of my client's lines all encroaching structures have been removed in compliance with the township direction so that this process has nothing to do now with any encouragement issues finally my clients have comply with every direction from this township in order for the conveyance to be valid including the daunting task of obtaining me an animist consent if every deeded owner in their construction plan following this proposed change the open space percentage in this area would get in you to exceed the minimum required as it does now however this is a very unique situation and we request that the council treated as such and look favor upon this thank you i'm happy to answer any questions to the extent my knowledge is d that deals with some protected area where errors in deeds and errors in staking have resulted in an alteration of the usable area didn't deal with misrepresentations of some sort on a daily basis however we have situations here would i make a move makes it unique is we're talking about a very small area of land that i in my career and i've never heard anybody else t issues and a few other things over a very small piece of land if we retired about acres and acres the we were probably going to be having this discussion but we're talking about where that's really only useful to the property owners you're still within your space we just want to take the part that's already cut and continue to maintain and well head but because their liability issues regarding that we'd like to do is assume those liability issues by purchasing the land is a problem is that i am point i definitely think there's some uniqueness to their situation and i'm totally with mr atkinson i don't agree that we should sell every township property but i do think there on for us pursuing this because of the uniqueness of this case always i'm worried about precedents what we do how it affects the next person that comes through our door for one of the things that i would like to add to the idea of the open space it became township property after the developer had it and it developed it and then identified what was the common open space and when we read the definition of the open space an ordinance it's supposed to be maintained in an aesthetic leap pleasing design and just serve some purpose part of what concerns me about this situation is that see what i would consider a standard but i would like to see where if we could try to move forward because i would rather have it looking nice and neat than locking like  anybody will be able to come to us with a similar set of circumstances that would put us in this position again quite to the contrary and with the president that we've attacked by selling this is an absolute mistake we made a reasonable offer to you six months ago that offer still stands that you're welcome news to the property we have a number of open spaces throughout the community that are maintained by adjacent property owners and i don't believe i see this is isn't a tort law it's a it is a situation and we can choose to you know to do or not do in any situation in the future and i think that given what has occurred here it's t everybody's advantage to simply transfer this little piece of property in and be done with it i know there's no emotion on the table but our farm proposal is if the council act on work to a true the transfer then i'll certainly work with the house or anyone else to to work out the details brunswick it's critical but it's true we're requesting that the approval be done and that the council work out the details will cancel and i move that we approve the on partly because of the size goes for it because it's condition we we haven't yet worked out anything with the school district as far as extending the lease so we moved our efforts for the parking lot to hotbar and then the fence price know significantly over our budget and we we felt that you know the fence is not that bad a condition that we've you know there's no real harm in holding off till next year a year later playing that tomorrow and expect to have it done by the seventh the the situation because a delay was out of their control the material that they bought from  that i mean that something needs to be resolved it i'm not sure that not signing this letter really has an impact on that if you read the letter to alcatraz and it's pretty much this is what i would say players estimating at this  have the one line mr sylvester eight says the knowledge that does not preclude further study it also doesn't it says that it could proceed but it also doesn't say that it well are you concerned about that a is there a way that you could sign with a notation that there isn't a dandelion and state that we want a pristine bike that where looking for further discussion about the final costs associated with that for each