now we're going to the long awaited so exciting presentation of the civic center plan and so many people in this audience are becoming is part group for each  other and the cast of people walked in at the present pretty meeting study session as like yeah i know those people and that is a great group we're very grateful for all the public input in this process and for all the expertise of the people that were brought in and the dedication of so many on the steering committee it is it is a very special moment in the history of holland michigan with this presentation and the civic center thank you so much scottsville have for chairing this committee and jay peters for code chairing it and now we thank you for being here tonight and pretty soon you'll probably be handing it to greg why camp from edgewater resources thank you shortly thank i just want to set the stage briefly before a great way camp who headed up the design team from edgewater resources leads us through the proposed plan for the civic center our group was charged last fall by the city with a pretty challenging task of we were charged with taking a run at something that multiple attempts have been made over the past twenty thirty years as to what do we do with the civic center and the surrounding area but the task that was presented to us number one was to create a conceptual plan for the run of ation in redevelopment of the entire site which includes the building and the market also we were challenged to say how can we activate the market area seven days a week also the challenge was thrown out could this  become the heart of a of a new residential neighborhood over the next number of years again how do we make the farmer's market more active other than for wednesdays and saturdays also at the same time can we develop a recreational program for residents of all ages income race and abilities because there was the sense that the civic center was a place that was always very welcoming to a very very diverse group of people in our community and probably the most challenging task that was ahead of us was we were to prepare this plan within a budget of eleven million dollars and that was the real sticking point and the real challenge that this group wrestled with during the past few months because other projects came in with a much much larger price stake and the challenge that we readily accept as from the start we thought you know what we can come up with a great plan within the budget that will be that we can get very very excited about that will solve a lot of the issues that are currently there but also lay the groundwork in the framework for expanded activities on that site in the building and at the marketplace so again we kept that eleven million dollar bogey out there the entire time of course during the process that we're not going to talk about that tonight there's all kinds of things you can do  you know there's all kinds of wishes and hopes and again going back to the start we were charged with developing a plan an overall plan that we can work towards but again most importantly we have an eleven million dollars plan that we're very very excited about and hopefully you'll you'll you'll sense that excitement and get excited about the plan and we can continue to move forward with that plan so with that i'm going to turn over to gre camp again greg headed up the design team that wrestled with all the hopes and wants and desires and actually put the framework in place for this plan so with that grea transparent process and a tremendous amount of community input will have i'm going to look at data with thousands of responses to a survey hundreds of people came to meetings and met with us and i think what's most interesting about this process where we start out knowing that this is a project that's been attempted two or three times here and seven well what's going to be different this time why are we what are we going to do that that's going to succeed now they didn't succeed before why what was the challenge and the answer that we thought was can be found and most importantly by meeting with the community  starting over and saying what's the really the essence of this place what's important here what's critical here and how do we build on that so we did that we step back started back in november with this initial vision in session your teammates arabs want to do a quick and demand supply and there they'll be working with you on the precipice of the steering committee we have quite a few members here from the string committee who had members with seventeen members on the steering committee we met almost every other week since november tremendous amount of dedication from that group so as we went through that process and the first things we did is we want to come up with kind of a guiding statement and that's the vision statement that you have before us but it's all about the civic center is what's special about the place and that's going to jump ahead a couple because a few words can jump out the civic center isn't just a building it's not just the market it's not just a gym it's a place of beauty and it's about these ordinary moments of every day that happen in holland that we sometimes the show is it over like it's a little bit like oxygen you w them but it's where the more people feel welcome in this community than anywhere else you know and holland is a diverse community we reached out to many many different groups and organizations and i think pastor will actually turn the project early with a real focus on  kids in the neighborhood so that was really helpful he was here tonight but he really really helped drive the conversation early on as well as a bit as well as a steering committee so but really what we're focused on is what's the next chapter in life for this building it's been fifty  sixty years it's a great building built with kids solids good solid bones one of things that we early quote question was you know do you just not the thing down and start over the answer clearly was a resigning no there's too much value there to actually try to recreate that building new would probably cost i think christie about roughly double just because there's so much good structure and value there but again looking at that next step and really continuing to serve the broadest range of residents in this community and doing in a more capable way making the building more functional more capable clearly it's showing its age it's worn it's a lot of things are out of date but we can fix those things but really celebrating what the civic center is about the heart of the community making every space that we build and the flexible and more of the one of the things we used to do is we used to build this real purpose built the cillit isn't you know when you look at those those banked step seats up above if you're not sitting there watching show those seats are particularly useful to you so that was kind of a model we want to look at things and say if we build something and if we change this can we make it so that that space has multiple uses at all times so that was always a guiding principle for us so we came up with a vision working with a community and as as a scout outlined it we really had t a fully renovated civic center imagines an improved market we did a specific market workshop that really determine that our market works great there are some functional things we've got to fix and there are some definitely other issues to address and talk about those but we have so many good things to start from certainly looking at ten acres of open pavement in downtown holland is not really compatible from an urban design standpoint with anything else in downtown how and it's kind of a strange space to be and it's fabulous when the market's there when two of times there and when the when it's empty  it's kind of the most nerve it's almost unnerving you're there and you expect a tumbleweed to roll through so we wanted to break that space down with some some landscape and start to be more gracious to the neighbors bring the scale down while still maintaining the parking and making sure that the function works its very pragmatic plan so it's a process of continuous community outreach we've had many many meetings i'll go through them a lot of different concept designs a knitter of approach we presented a number of different concepts community listen this was the list of some of the public meetings this doesn't include any of these day call or the steering committee meetings all of which republicans well so for every one of these meetings or at least one and often times to stake out their meeting steering committee meetings to make sure we're on track so many many beings were here last on the last with their march sixteenth this is sort of an end of this first conversation and hopefully the beginning of the next conversation here's a quick summary two thousand seven hundred sixty three people responded to our vision  which really presented a huge range of images of what the space could feel like and wasn't meant to be where i want to exactly that but it was a means of the of the public to communicate with us things that resonated with them in a visual way because it's often difficult for the general public to speak architecture and  small organizations because it pastor will in many many others four hundred people came very public meetings who got huge mailing lists thousands of hours of effort lots of time spent on this process to listen and gather feedback clearly as you know there was a point in time there was a clear data driven survey of what should be done of the civics and i just brought this in here because the blue says renovate it the red says build a new one ten percent weren't sure what to do so there's clearly you know but this is back a few years but a really clear assessment that there's publics of for what happens there with the building and make it better but when we did our survey of the visual these jumped through a little bit but what you're seeing here is that sort of green color that you see was people that reacted while that image so you can see for example movies in the park or spaces for people to gather and meet and play games you know the pick up basketball game many people don't even realize what happens there but for a buck and a half or and it's a different side of the new than you usually see or usually think of maybe but you look at the green this is what the community was really bragging positively to night activities really came out as as a key goal there so you can see this one just a beautiful wonderful space where people can walk and feel safe and comfortable in the evening so some of the summary of the of what we heard was that the civic center is the most inclusive place in holland i think we all think of holland as a very welcoming open friendly place but there are many people  different demographics that don't feel that same way they look around and they may feel like i don't know that i feel as welcome as you think i probably do but at the civic center ray says consistently that's a place i feel welcome we talked about that as it related to  aquatic center when we worked on the parks and rec plan the parks and rec plan looked at that and we heard a lot of a lot of folks some of the nerdy communities don't feel welcome at their product center and i don't think that's because anybody doesn't want them there but it's the way that facility operates it is since it's such a high investment at an elite level and it's so programmed that you know compared to bowers pool which is sort of a more relaxed environment there's a really clear preference there and we took that lesson to heart with this is that some of the activities that happen at the civic center are really more about this this comfortable welcoming you know it's fun it's recreation and wellness and we'll talk about that some more but this idea that clearly needs be modular and flexible and after all all of our spaces need to be multi use early and we really recognize that a really when the project enhance the market provide functional parking of course we do have a small reduction in parking physically on the site but we came up with a really simple management strategies to make sure that we don't negatively impact the way that the market works providing a more diverse programme offering is really key and really want to make the space good for everyone rather than great for one specific use of pick on the pool and it's meant it's really operates at the sort of elite team level this is really meant to be about wellness instead of fitness and sort of recreation set of competition so it's kind of a different feel on the spectrum of recreation of what and in jeremy and the park team does all the day so ultimately it's about the ordinary things becoming extraordinary sista few images of the ordinary things that are extraordinary course the market encourage market looking at you know the holland christian basketball game if people complain about the basketball court i say this every time dan and david were asked to design a new gym and the design directive is make it feel like the civic center gym that's a pretty good really celebrate you know being together it's kind of a cool activity of course the festivals the different ethnic festivals that are supported up there are going to show you know the parades that happen out there and of course to a time all these things like you know i've got twenty more sides like this with you know the cage match and roller derby all these crazy things that happen in this building you don't really think about ultimately we thought of them as the orphans there's places that don't have another home i'm taking you through this process because i think it's really critically important rises along a little bit but i want to really get a sense of wanted was that when we bring people here for two of time in the tour buses show we should put our best foot forward and have a space that's representative of the quality that we have here and right now that's not living up to how on standards it's kind of a layer of detail we've described throughout the processes is how and quality which doesn't necessarily mean it's the world class best crazy it means it's a very good it's responsible pragmatic durable you know this building lasted fifty sixty years the next iteration is to do the same creating a much stronger connection with the market right now these uses are separate taking advantage of existing drift up spaces where thousand feet from the lake which is kind of crazy one of the big things obviously is how it continues its march to the water we're on a thousand feet at the civic center and that's very close you get up on the roof if you team to make this building really really energy efficient that may open the door for energy tax credits for example that might save you two million dollars in financing this project which is huge so we're looking at those strategies as well market specific  demonstration kitchen and more market programming one of things as relates to wellness we want to create more of an opportunity for the market to be sort of a way for deriving education opportunities for the community to serve bring more customers to the market bring a more diverse clientele the market more diverse vendor opportunities and then more training and classes there are many folks in this town who might come into the market and not necessarily know how to cook although special certain that i don't want to do something new so this demonstration kitchen would be everything from you know the government chef seri plan and show you as scott said we have a what we are very proud of as an eleven million dollars step one and how do we get there so one of things that you see here in this presentation is back to this overall view we certainly had a few other items that just for the audience here that yellow is a little difficult to say there's a few other items on the very north edge that someday maybe a parking garage but there's a little yellow box around there ultimately someday we may look at extending the canopy as we might look at a second jemma on the south someday looking at moorpark space there are more things out there in the vision that we can come back to over time but a real key is that this is a beginning point and it starts a conversation when we talk about a new residential neighborhood it's really more of a dense neighborhood as things in that area that part of town evolve to the west and maybe to the north of course protecting the historic neighborhood to the south as a priority as well our basic our eleven million dollar budget really focuses on the area inside that red dotted line and there we go into it in greater detail so could we have a broader vision there are some other elements would love to see happen in the parking areas and over time will be setting priorities and continuing to separate is this conversation between the vision and step one is really one of priorities more than than can we achieve something because there are so many good things on here that what will will be choosing from many good ideas so starting with the market some very specific pragmatic things gutters utilities you know not all the areas have power and water for example or just simple marker so when a market vendor sets up at six in the morning half in the dark trying to get their their current right spot for example creating additional twenty four covered market stalls including sixteen new stalls one of the things that we're going to do is proposed to expand the civic center building to the north to gauge street we call the north pole expansion and you'll see that in some of the drawings but basically the north hall if you've been over there is a fairly narrow space it's about as why this for me that this room want to do is about double it which is basically make it about the size of this full room if we had if this these curves weren't here so expire expanding that space when the building comes up and engages the market engages it street but it creates an indoor space that  in the summertime of that whole edge that whole wall that was a street that whole edge would be roll up doors are opening doors so in the summertime it opens wide open it's like an indoor open air market in the wintertime we close those and it can become an indoor market currently we  have a winner market and and bill and others and stand out in the freezing parking lot trying to sell vegetables sort of come inside create that activity that's also a space that when it's not being used to the market can be used for additional play additional programming meetings all those things will also create twenty four more covered stalls plus sixteen additional ones so that's more capacity for the market and more covered areas and that's really critical that some of the vendors also looking at completely new restrooms which of course you need desperately there's a lot of traffic that intersection a market morning we can change the light patterns everything stops for a minute let the pedestrians cross and you don't have to worry about the cars turning left regular traffic patterns you just let it go and we don't change anything for rush hour reorganizing the aid a compliant a clearly be a parking was oriented around the building we need to change how that works to make it function much better for the market a west bank or the market really is obviously focused to the east when the when we have the north pole expansion we also look at an outdoor extension of the civic center they go to the north it looks like a park but it's really an extension of the civic center activities of programming and market activities to really create a more balanced site and enhanced the market in that way some play environment and more of this wellness programming so that some of the activities that jeremy's going to program will actually be outside in the space and then finally more demonstration cooking activities this is probably the most important thing as it relates to really fundamental change in how the space works and how it's activated it's about programming and this really came from our friends a project for public spaces we clearly needed better programs for daily vendors the system is evolved over time but it's maybe time to elevate that thinking about how we get more diverse markets there's a real desire for you know could we have a thursday network oddo could we have you know friday nights movie in the markets for example different activities one of things that that the market folks told us they don't want is of them here and once and saturday i do not want to come back on sunday and monday and thursday it's the way the market they have to grow food at some time right so you have the wednesday and saturday markets which are stay the same and then we create a different type of market activities to program and activate those spaces as much as we'd love to physically build something that makes people come down there it's other people diversity opportunities for for the vendors there's folks who i'd love to get in there but it's a waiting list it's hard for me to do that if we create different types of market it creates different opportunities then finally parking management strategies that if we were to build up the full vision we lose about seventy parking spaces out of the six  that's the north pole expansion that blue dot is the is the new restrooms they'll be accessible from the indoors and the outdoors so you can have the restrooms open early in the morning without opening the whole building simple functional things and the new entry  pine that would be the new entry sign there that red began another element is sort of a glass casco welcoming place out in the market so when you come out and you know where do i find you know the guy who swears rudy who sells chocolates i got to find him and in those kinds of things maybe you get your market bucks there so all of these elements here come together to create a new space thinking about that entry again breaking down the spaces make it safer crossing more shade more trees more pleasant landscape will top of the crowd to see in the small screens but  you're seeing there is not a fixed sign where the where the where the text is that would be like a high def t v screen basically so that can change constantly one of things we want to think about is that it's not about the marquee of the building it's about the whole entire space so we wanted to pull the signage and information off the building and starts to say these are the activities happening in the place in civic center place not at the civic center building and so all kinds of different activities and it could be all kinds of information as we think about the western anchor that's really you can start to get a sense of how the building expands to the north and also that that green space to the north of there is play space it's market space it's program space for jeremy to do more activities and these are the kinds of night market things we definitely want some one market activities there was a huge huge desire for that just to give a sense of what some of these spaces could feel like having some splash headphones out there for example so kids come out and run and play you know obviously a lot of programming activity if you want to have that active while the market's on that you know soaking the kids could be fun my kids would love it but again these wonderful spaces you know imagining a walk through it's currently parking lot and feeling like this is something that we think is really special so as we dive into the on going and so this covers a whole range of things everything possible the whole entire wishlist and what we want to do is as we focused on this is established a bunch of priorities so i'm going to actually focus on what we're proposing to do is step one but everything on this design built to be modular so that if we choose to not do something now building a set up that it could be improved or added or brought in later so we were not preventing things from happening so the building comments we heard was clearly it's a complete renovation this is actually what we're doing you get a complete renovation of the existing existing civic center activities so if you did nothing else essentially everything that happens there now that jim space new bleachers new sound new lights you paint everything feels great the lobby space you come in it's something you're proud of it's when somebody comes in from out of town you feel good about it the gym works better the stage works better we don't necessarily have a goofy power thing hanging from the ceiling if you have some of our public meetings people thought that was pretty fun  just bring this base up get up to speed certainly fixing the time for air conditioning in a building after sixty years it's time and that's going to make the building much more active in the summertime than it is today acoustical stage rigging lighting and  certainly code improvements or some things over time that are have slipped out of code compliance will fix all of those the north pole expansion this is so basically the first side says take the building you have now and completely bring it up to code bring it up to speed all the uses that you used to having there are now completely done in a more functional more beautiful space just like you have now so that's sort of your sort of baseline now we're adding to that and this is all within our proposed up one budget is this this nor paul that i've been describing so one of things we want to do is level the northern upper deck and so when you're standing in the gym and you're looking towards a street you've got that angled upper deck we're going to take that structure out because it's all concrete and steel we're going to level that  point you've got a lot of run somewhere all those things can happen up there many that pivot is that happen on the gym floor today like pick a ball don't need that giant high space they could happen up there so we could keep basketball happening while pickle balls happening and different things can happen in multiple day flexible classroom spaces the balcony overlooking st we certainly want people to engage with that and being on that upper level you'll be of look out and see the lake we also improve the lobby the lobby entry what we call the family room a real in this building is when you think when you compare it to you know like a full on you know fitness center when you know first thing you do you come in and you check in at the thing they did your peers and you got your your pass or whatever this is the space where people who feel welcome that doors on all sides they come in they decide down their welcome they're waiting for the kids to get done with their activities or they just want to come in and sit and read a book in a comfortable space the restrooms of course improving offices the team there makes do with a lot of dated stuff ations and of course it is a compliance so this is the building and the purple space you see the purple rectangle you see right in the middle that's the gym space there is a green rectangle to the are the toilet room so that's the new restroom facilities the horn space just above that is the new office space currently they're separated into two sides of the entry we're shifting the primary entry point to the north east to the north more so what may not look like much of an expansion what you're seeing there is that green space just above the orange rectangle is about five times wider than it is now so when you walk into the lobby today you would walk in right through the arrow is there through the orange that's where you walk in today  in the future that'll be off a special come into the north closer to eight street and the whole all the men's room facilities there will come out and that area will open up and be dramatically wider and more gracious and then the green rectangle across the north of course is that expansion expansion of the north street and then that space has a higher bay rough than it is now or higher a ceiling currently it's an eleven feet maybe and we're going to bring it up to maybe fourteen as that space works so you'll have a higher base space now and then you have another space above that and that space will be designed in the future you could add a third floor on top of that if desired so that's a quick overview of the building in the northwest corner there is also additional storage and catering kitchen space the upper level deck the east and southern opera level stay the same the north would be leveled and we'd replace those seats with risers bring seats in and so that space comes and goes in is more useful that way but when till the time comes we can do the same thing we've always done and have tons of people there or other kind of events and with air conditioning we would expect to see many more events and we currently have and then future we'd love to get up on top of that yet again and keep on going up so  the kind of character again in terms of a space what i want to show you with this picture is those are big roll up doors and so if this is that northern edge along it's street lots and lots of doors the design of the building of course is going to follow the existing structure but what you're seeing here is the kind of activities you'd like to see this is the farmer's market in flint but you can see there's folks on the upper deck there will have folks on the upper balconies above the north pole looking down all the activities on the street the market and then this is the kind of character of that  family or mob space when you come in you have more of an open feel more of a welcoming feel than we do today and this is the kind of demonstration activity so what that looks like here is clearly what you see is the primary part of the building you c recognize where the existing structure is and then the north expansion there's that vertical glass on the corner that's the entry lobby space that also houses all the vertical circulation the elevators and stairs the north hall as you can see is now further out towards eighth side again just getting a sense that new park space that new extension of the of the wreckage to the outdoors and different things that can happen there so that right there is step one and we're very very excited about that because we think it meets all the goals and initiatives that were put before us i think it's a really thoughtful pragmatic set of priorities decided on and that was through the tremendous effort of our steering committee so you know open up for questions and disc you have a couple of questions first of all as a member of the steering committee i want to thank everyone who's been involved as you've indicated there's been a tremendous amount of energy and time invested in this to come up from to this billy i mean this is the eleven million dollars version and have you know we were to add like a third level to the north side or a little bit different facade in the front and you know all that stuff that we don't like to have but our frugal side saying well maybe not in my mind it's it's important i think to as we go to the community with this and ask for their support in different way said to have those options out there invisible and also a price sort of attached to that because you know as as you said you know in this town we don't do stuff half baked i mean when this when the civic center was originally built as you said it was built done this time we've done them well it's we don't like to waste money it's like frugality well dressed right so we don't do things badly we do them well thought out  but i think rather purchase alluded to this others too that there is a point it is possible to come back in the future and add things to this concept  but there is a value i think in thinking about what it's prudent to that because there will be more expensive in the future to add things we all know that in the future there will be other projects that at the moment will occupier time and take priority so whether or not we would actually come back and do these things to say nothing ever of the displacement  and disruption of new constructs so my point is i think it would be a good thing as we roll this out and offer it to the community to have those options listed i'm site of what's being proposed here which is a very very good good offering with some prices included with that because there's plenty of space here for commemorative plaques  leave part of their legacy connected to this project and to give them that opportunity i think would be a good thing so just to think about that sort of thing we're going to have an i don't know it's probably going to be at the civic center area and that's what we've done for the last fifty sixty years and we can go back to its origin and i'm sure if you've lived in colorado you can make a list in your mind or on a piece of paper of how many events that you've gone there from and i want even begin to do that i think the community needs a place where they can meet and case rain or shine or whatever this is where we can meet and have a program if there's an emergency we know where we can go if it's a great time we can go there if it's a festival we can go there and i love the flexibility i love the idea of the restrooms being open so you can go if you are in the building they're available and then the exteriors i think is a real asset  and as we move to the western gateway that way it looks like it could be the right time i think it's a great idea you guys did a great job with flexibility and i'm not sure exactly what the next step is going to be but it sounds like we're on our way i think you should ask mike sure been on the council for a long time we've been talking about this for a long time so i'm glad to see it coming together but i think greg you in the group came up with a great compromise some of the exciting things that might be able to happen within this area there was a few of us that were old staunch ones way back when when people were saying tear it down it's no good i don't know we better stop think about this for a second so i'm glad to see a repurchasing coming of this you and the group have done a fantastic job or we're going to please everybody absolutely not is this a vision for the city i think you hit the nail on the head does it give us some future endeavors to get into absolutely as you said it's modular it continues to build as the city develops in different ways it can be moved it tweaked just a little bit it's not going to be a stagnant building for another fifty years so we graduations there's a lot of work to be done yet a lot more discussion to have i'm glad the openness all the public meetings that came the public  i don't get excited about much i got kind of a stone face but this is this is getting me excited s the day that he passed away and you kind of feel like you lost a soldier that was going to help with this whole civic center the dream and it coming into reality and of course his was the great  quest out to the public what if someone would want to donate to name the building and that's what generated the two million dollars gift from the generous hearing us and now in juke would talk about all the different things that happened here and i'm sure he remembered things many people didn't i talked to one person who said he was there in the eighty's with his dad and johnny cash performed and johnny cash came out and said boy this building's salt that's really all you know we're not overdoing this so we definitely do need to do something and it is just awesome one person called in and said yeah i remember when i went to a wrestling thing with my dad there that was so awesome and then he called back again a couple minutes later and said you know i'm going to go there with my son because he's about the age i was when i went with my dad and i want that it's the keeper of stories and  it is gone from one generation to the next and that is a precious thing and just a couple weeks ago i was working with esther felt ski and some vietnam veterans because this is the fiftieth  year to commemorate the vietnam war and if ever there were a group that we did not treat well that deserved our highest respect they would be the group and we wanted to reach out to them and have an event  here on the thirtieth of april to recognize them and to say thank you and so we looked talked about all different places to have it and all different staging enough and finally we came down to the civic center and i thought how appropriate because in the civic center it's big enough to house a lot of people we could maybe have a choir and one side and in the band on the other side in the riser areas that we could have  timeline that the museum does to teach about what that war progression was we couldn't house also the michigan the michigan commemorative statue that they have for all those who gave their  lives in the vietnam war and we'd have the space to house people and and have a meaningful ceremony and i thought how how appropriate when you think of all the different places to go everybody goes back to the civic center it is the civic center and it is really exciting to see all of this come together and i know it wasn't easy but it was handled with such grace and goodness and we're really grateful for all the work that w comes next you know what we call design development and architecture through world is we've got a great concept we've got a great vision we need to continue to refine the cost estimates we continue to refine the pieces and parts of the program use a program that's the activities that are going to happen in there and just you know how much building space or how much of this or how much of that so we'll continue that process review potential of additional funding sources there's a protest it is out there you know one of  things that there's going to be as you know there's some pictures here and second of some of the other things that we could do as is as you guys go in your budgeting process and decide what's where are the priorities because that's what you do primarily it's about reviewing priorities and choosing among many good ideas to look at that and so finalizing the construction budget over the next six day weeks maybe twelve weeks whatever that takes that's a really key point in time when we say ok that's that's what we're going to do and then the design team will dive in and get those drawings done potential it's a very important word potential two million dollars in energy credit finance savings that's a state program that if we can get the energy efficiency we know we can have that may free up it reduces the cost of the bond and it could  to maybe kitchen trees and all kinds of things folks who might want to sponsor some things a corporate sponsorship grants there are going there are grants out there that could help us with green infrastructure and other elements public private partnerships one of things that  is a really useful tool that's not used often enough is figure out how to partner with you know jason developments in adjacent projects nearby that you may have opportunities and access to grants that they don't and you can leverage and partner and build something that benefits them or they can build something that benefits you like we did with our project at harbor shores and st joseph also really working together the developer was able to build a bunch of public infrastructure and in return the city managed to get grants to help construct parking for example and so there's a ways that you know just being really open minded and creative about how this works there's opportunities there to study and really remaining flexible over time vision is going to adapt and change and grow but you're definitely right anything you know there's always the question of what's that going to cost and that's all it's a question is when are we building it and the thing we build now is going to be less expensive than anything we build later because a year from now still costs more and everything costs more but it's also now your tiptoeing into the building that has more finishes versus now you know how it is once you start if you you know not go all the finish so but just to give you a sense of what more of the vision of the building looks like as you saw before we have to jump back to it here  in this in the step one it's really all about the northern expansion the north pole the biggest move that we propose beyond that would be really expanding east to all the east family room and so you have a little bit more of that space and what's kind of interesting about this is that space sort of it envelops the existing well you'd actually look through that glass and still see the remnants of the civic center up there you'd still see it as a partner piece of it but you have a much more wonderful flexible space of different things you can see there's the third floor on the north pole expansion which gets you a bunch more square footage that's useful so these are other opportunities there's things on the back side of the building which just again i saw in the  parking area thinking about you know it when you look at that green space to the north i showed you a companion picture earlier where that was the green space it could also be an ice ribbon and so rather than having an ice rink that you're skating around in a circle this is like skating on a ribbon through a park like skating through a path which is a really wonderful light in a much more interesting exciting here's a good photo of what that could feel like other things we could do in terms of that green parking lot of green in the parking and the landscape out there that's the strategy is meant to be corner is the structure the lower right corner that green space is the exact same photo from the one above and so you can actually drive on the grass without destroying it and protecting it and that's really good green infrastructure in terms of taking care of water demands and so on and then trees in the park and don't necessarily have to take up parking spaces you can see here in this image so lots of different ideas that we're working on but creating spaces in the park this could be a space that you would feel in the parking lot because you could create a walkway that breaks that scale down yet when we need the parking demand on the weekends or for the market we have it still it's just a lot of different ideas but one of the out there for you lots to consider and i want to thank you for your time tonight and trusting us with this project we really appreciate the opportunity thank you thank you so much