it's been my experience and i hear his lawyer reflects is that it really depends on what part of china you're talking about that's in interesting because well if that's based on that concession then how can we speculate in the me ask you a practical question that is referenced in some of the cases that i read in preparation for the argument today there is a reference to some sort of a care on the number of asylum claims that the attorney general back to where she came from so you know free to move as we understand it in western society so all those cases primarily out of central and south america where we say well maybe they're not safe in that part of the country but they can under the family the course of family planning was it's also a social group persecution of young women of childbearing age not married it doesn't matter whether they're married or not in this when job area the at all to think that michelle will not marry and have children this is the normal course for a chinese woman and twenty percent of the women who have children are sterilized seventy percent of women with two children that  widespread it is the more reasonable her fear is we feel that her fear of even the person persecution of sterilization and abortion is well founded and that is on account of political opinion now concern past persecution it about we are told for the first time so called for genital inspections the case is factually unique because we have a petitioner who is on the one hand found credible but the only evidence that she proffers and that she relies upon for her stated fear is information from her one of her elder sisters who at the time this claim was mary had not been to china in at least six year mansur it this way if you look at it carefully not complaining about a population control policy and examination she's complaining about the conditions of that examination and that's not cutting it to find that's exactly what she complained about you mean if you mean if they were if there was more privacy in the conduct of the examination she would have a suggestion that's her exaction based on what her sister told her and the three times she pro those facts on all those occasions she says that my sister told me or my elder sister told me no privacy not hygiene and it could hurt my reputation in the village it's a small village where gets around that's what she's complaining about she's not saying that what of it why why his why is broadcasting the fact of whether you are a virgin or not to the to the village why is that why is that i describe a condition of the of the going to walk on a logical exam that's the act that's actually broadcasting the results of the exam and that doesn't seem to fit with your theory in what way you're on well you're arguing that her only objection is to the fact that they don't use sterile procedures in the gynecological exam and she's not actually arguing about the fact of the kind of logical exam and if they are if she if she is complaining about the fact that the results of the just talk that's not part of the policy of population control policy shaming is not part of the policy and there's there's no law there's no authority that shaming as part of the policy that's but she did not say that this was part of the policy this routinely done it's something that sometimes happened why does that make her fear and reasonable if if there's evidence in the record that it actually does  isn't that sufficient it's not sufficient why not i mean it is the government now taking the position that unless it's actually happened to her and she can personally testify that she has suffered these forms of persecution then we must rule as a matter of law lee is as far apart from this case as they is for night there's nothing to compare that case with this one other than the fact that it involved by officials based on her taunting and defying what you would liken it almost to a form of torture it could approach that but it was certainly  assaulted and and in time duration intensity it was just beyond anything that should or could have occurred if it were just a routine examination and then of course you ha conduct of mrs lee that counted for something in this case there's nothing to compare that was about past persecution it was about the first sentence in the population control amendment which includes language about other resistance to control program this is about fear and that language is not in the second sentence of the a member that's what we disagree with you that what what she feared does not rise to the level of persecution and the fact finder also says that that you did not present evidence which was sufficient enough another perplexity about the case is that she's talking about unmarried women when three alleged notice which was not accepted and the children that they should be concerned about a penny of this has any validity we frequently see this with administrative law judges they will make a comment on the record as this i j did that have got this notice here and i quite and don't know what to do with it because it doesn't look very regular to me but then they don't go to the next step and say i find it based on my experience to be an inherently incredible document and i reject it as a fraud and so i don't know what to do with it looks as if the judge is sort of musing on the record that well this is kind of an odd looking exhibit but then he never does anything with  any founder credible so what do we do with doesn't do anything with that other than there's some reference to sneak years and that sort of thing and then it sort of move on to well the judge the judge didn't use it but there were there was no question in this case that it was a smuggling ca that much because what she's hearing that is the particulars of what she's figuring as she three times related only came to her from her sister and the fact finder did not give full weight to that sister state but she said it was reduced in property value of limited value and not and to the extent she made that finding that what happened here the board subtracted on the credibility determination leaving intact the other at the denture rate findings in regard to the full acceptance of the three country reports and the washington post foreign service article which the fact finder found persuasive not  not fully accepting the sr statement and not believing the notice and none of those findings was disturbed or challenged on appeal but we have to sort of pick and choose between what the i g determined and what the board know your article i don't think it's picking and choosing the board sustain everything the i j a did except the credibility and that's why i was saying it's unique because what the petitioner is relying upon is from her sister who was found  narrowly speaking the court could deny the petition on sufficient of the evidence period but to go beyond that and say it's persecution would be would require a finding th i actually would like to do readings testifying truthfully if i you deal was inserted on me the village people would think that i did something that's shameful and i'm virtually no one would later marry me and if i w there but even if she can't corroborate this with state department for reports and things in the english language press if her testimony is credible that is enough  in the context of the inspections which are mentioned in the state department reports of all child bearing age women that this makes sense and she doesn't have to prove it by documentarian evidence she has to give the corporation that she can come up with that her testimony is sufficient and that's the best we can do your own and when we recognize that our the truthful testimony of our client is really the foundation preferred method particularly where our case law has changed so as the administrative agency made its determination is to send a reconsideration in light of the legal guidance that we have now given what we seem to that that we are not executive branch immigration officials and that the preferred method is to send it back to the agency with instructions perhaps but not to make the actual disabling truly feels make it whether you can you can just