our last meeting which was a week ago tonight which in turn improve five previous minutes and is there a motion to approve the minutes from last week most improved minutes from last week second  town meeting to seek approval of them and i would like to address them in not in the order in which they are presented on the warrant but in the author of importance to the retirement board members and that would be first of all the first twelve thousand dollars of retirement benefits so what that means is essentially for twenty percent of our entire lives to receive less than twenty less than twelve thousand dollars in a single full three hundred sixty dollars increase that the remaining eighty percent of our retirees are receiving it's it's a percentage of the base which means it's really a fixed number for everyone who's making over twelve thousand dollars in pension any time in their thousand and eleven so now we've had the benefit of several years of the see how that benefit was treated excepted and looked at by other retirement systems and right now the hundred forty time systems in massachusetts sixty five all the boards were going and all that increased to the cola base of fourteen thousand dollars would be would be appropriate and of course it will add some money to the unfunded liability and we have provided letters from our legislature had increases so right now our retirees when we grant all of which we do regularly to anyone making over twelve thousand dollars a year it's a maximum three hundred sixty dollars a year  for for that cost of living increase if we increase it to fourteen thousand dollars a year which we hope will prove that would increase the maximum call to four hundred twenty dollars a year or an additional sixty dollars of what it currently is set at the board has discretion to approve a color every year and but i can tell you that the board has consistently approved cost of living increases for its retirees seven million dollars to the funding for the unfunded liability over the course of the funding schedule ill creasy employer normal cost by thirty seven thousand dollars in the fiscal two thousand one thousand appropriation by two hundred nineteen thousand one hundred dollars these are so we believe that the time is appropriate given the fact that the funding schedule has been extended the town's payments have been reduced to four point five percent on the increasing scale going forward to up through two thousand and twenty nine and our return on  on the board right now it was approved by a town meeting back in one thousand nine hundred eight to be three thousand dollars a year legislature has allowed for an increase in that stipend to no more than forty five hundred dollars a year  belmont is it anybody that is also on the state system so that the years that you serve on this retirement boy does it lead to a great pension from the state in the long term well it depends on whether or not the number gets credible service part of the pension reforms in two thousand and nine stated that any one who makes less than five thousand dollars a year whether an elect without the work you've got to take a test which is six hours a year you get us they have to that well we have an expert that does most of your investment and here we have an actuary so so tell me about the work that's it makes these meetings go more than the reason we have to we have to review my services based on a forty five and all state bend i don't believe it's excessive at all at your usual hourly wage rate i agree with you completely i could make the same argument for a view of the committees i serve on and everybody else might not realize that my questions i'm very much opposed to you people getting a fifty percent raise when it is up town we dealing with our unions and they're looking for a raise and you people looking for a fifty percent raise as i see it to be paid about one hundred dollars an hour very much opposed at all while i still got the full the first one i'm also against we cannot accept the million seven further liability i don't know the situation of the people who are the the beneficiaries i know police and fire retired at age fifty five and they all get a job i know those people that i know that people are my age can pay their taxes and as it stands we could not and i mean yes the call the other two i don't understand the extent someone was ends that's a hundred thirty five out of three hundred thirty nine receive less than twenty thousand dollars a year in retirement better there are a few who do really receive high benefits but these are highly compensated employees when they will work six thousand dollars for our benefit them and i honestly i never like to sound like a fiscal conservative because it kind of runs against my grain but we do have a significant outstanding balance that the town will be challenged to meet in terms of  obligations associated with current retirement benefits and the schedule that's been approved for getting on top of that outstanding balance  it's going to be a challenge for us and it really is going to be a challenge for us and so i think that it would be with great difficulty that i would vote in favor of any of these changes without more work with the hall with our actuary and we arrived at a funding schedule that we thought was going to be a realistic and reasonable result of the to address them for liability and that was to increase the funding schedule by by two years and by doing that we were able to reduce the obligation annually that the time would have to pay so we believe we've taken steps to help mitigate the the cost of the unfunded liability that of course is built up over the decades and this is it's not the retirees fault that the that the liability has been built up like  this i don't want to say that you haven't taken steps and i appreciate that you have taken some steps i would have liked to have i would have liked to have obtained another year on that on that schedule for for repayment and which would have given the talents a little bit of additional room took to work with as we try to manage the annual budgets but but but then to be piling additional benefits on top of what we really owe it just without a lot more analysis about where we're going i would have difficulty with that time and i would first off i greatly appreciated the extent of the schedule corner where the contribution was a significant enough of them left in the amount that we could consider extending it to reduce the growth of the game from seven percent to closer to three percent that was the target and then you were involved in that the very select when is responsible for negotiating the payments for the retirement work in as sun comes to the retirement board however they're independent of the tell the government in it's up to you to decide what the schedule is in the final analysis the town works with you you work with the town but it is it's your job to protect the retirees u respect what you're saying but i hate to see a lot of time being wasted on that topic and a few others the other two have to do with individuals who are trapped in situations by changes in state law really would be unfair to keep him in that position and then the big one is the change in the code from twelve to fourteen thousand what your board does is you you look to the increase for sources of cure and you try to keep the coalition pieces in line with the sort of purity increases is that not the case well the way the statute is written if the cost of living granted by security is in excess of three percent thanks for having me my presentation is really very simple specially for those of you who are sitting here last year or in town meeting last year my purpose the purpose of my article is to move funds from free cash for go my purpose in submitting this is really the same as it was last year once again are certified free cash balance as of last july was over seven million dollars seven point one million dollars to be exact to me that's very good news revenues were higher than had been forecast and there were considerable turned backs coming from back in the department so we again we have a very healthy balance as i see it this is again presents us with an opportunity just like us are last year the money is there we know that maybe with once it is now back of our minds it's coming more and more to the front of our minds that this is not going to continue to be true and that  some rocky times are ahead in terms of the balance of balancing the budgets in future years so i think it's an opportunity to put some of that money aside to hold on to that money image in the stabilization  fill the budget gaps as far as possible mitigate the possibility of another override at the very least delay or the table before you i think everyone has it now it just simply puts the request this year in context i've reviewed the last three fiscal years in all three years since in fifteen sixteen and seventeen produced the at that is on july one of those those years we had very high freq cash balances relative to other years this table sort of shows you what was done with those free cash balances in church appropriations this two primary purposes of things i wanted to point out here we began putting money in the stabilization fund from free cash last year and when we put one point one million dollars into it you also write that was approved by tom beating virtually a ninety percent approval rate last year  this year i'm looking for a million dollars if you can see one of the important considerations in deciding how much to put into this general stabilization fund is how does that square with the free cash guidelines professor card line says that we want to we want to provide we want to leave a balance post appropriations in any year free cash that's between three and five percent this appropriation as it stands right now and i believe is the last time i've asked this question i don't believe we know about new ok fair enough so we don't really know what kind of new growth from the substation will go into the f y eighteen revenues yes if a dollar goes in from new growth that dollar doesn't have to come out of free cash to support the budget this  year right now the my request would be three to three and a quarter percent in crete cash it compares favorably to last year with just over three percent and it's somewhat below two years ago we were down to about three point six percent if the new growth came in we're talking more about three and a half percent or so after this after this appropriation my point here is that this is not an unusual pro creation it's not something that's sort of going to you earl and you think it's quite consistent with the kinds of appropriations we've done in the past but to sum up i believe that when women pass you right two years ago we sort of made a commitment that if things were better than we were forecast at that time that we do everything we could to stretch out the impact of a overwriting close future budget deficits to me putting a sum of money into an appropriate sum of money into the general stabilization fund is really the best way to do that it's not a lock box my can be a  lot of it but it basically changes the question if an appropriation comes before town meeting it normally the appropriation the person looking for the appropriation would have to answer why is this important or why is this necessary to do here it's just slightly different twist on it you need two series of and you basically have to persuade two thirds of how meeting that not only is this important procreation but is it better then leaving in the stabilization fund in order to close budget gaps as it stands right now with the forecast we've seen it doesn't look like that question will remain open for a very long in the current forecast are you also or so i think on the meeting on may fifth at the previously and i don't think that that has changed i think everybody here is because of that mind how for i've heard particularly from mark low of several times and i happen to agree with him that it's more prudent this year to wait to move money into the general stabilization fund if we can do that until the fall special town meeting which we will have to hold because we have the question of the modulus for the elementary schools before us and the extent and scope of the cost of those  is unclear so far there are several still moving pieces and i'm not sure that i understand why you think it's important to do it now rather than in the fall when we will have a full picture and can still you're right we don't know what the modules will cost here i think early in this year david kill suggested that a couple of it might be two million you know i think the number could be higher it's possible i've heard a size eight maybe maybe even higher i was a of it we put one point three million or free cash into it and we said we should have bought it for one point four five million kind of a balanced approach and my understanding is that something the rating agencies like to see that you're being careful last year we put one we purchased margins one point four five all in cash so i think there's three ways you could look at this year one is i believe which i would like to see us ponder because i number one i believe it's a capital expenditure and number two if one considers sort of phase two of a project to put because we knew last year that we were going to need more modulus phase two of a project we could conceivably evolve this part of having spent cash last year number two it could be determined that it's just more prudent to forget about last year and try to do you know half and half or you know a combine and form funding this year let's just say and i believe this is a high end us to meet let's s is expensive is two and a half million dollars to install i think that's higher than any other estimate i've heard let's call it two and a half million if we decide to go with this option two there is a restrictive account currently being h d currently holding the proceeds from the sale of cushion scrip parking lot it's about one point three three five million dollars and it's restricted and it's targeted right now actually to help pay for modulars that would more than provide fifty percent if you go that way if you go half cash half wondering thirdly you decide the need we need to purchase it in cash and absolutely if free cash isn't increased in course we don't know what is going to be it that's one of the things we don't know what's going to be certified for cash for this july history would suggest it's going to be it's going to be some return but we don't know how much yet if it's got to come out of this year's free cash plus the parking lot thing you know you need to spend some of that money or maybe all of that money all this money in and over all i guess my my concern about that journey is number one i think there are more prudent ways to go about it as a capital expenditure and i don't think i put my in this is just my opinion i don't think that the wise is used to that extra million dollars that we've got is to put it into the modulars when we can fund them a different way i think with  budget deficit bearing down on this so that two years from now if forecast holds whole we haven't got four million dollars shy after using reserves then i think that's more important purpose but again that's why  well i think we all understand it but for the purposes of the people television audience that may not this isn't like an extra million dollars the only difference between the allowance for you trust the town hall meeting and the town fathers in doing the proper planning and put them into a much higher box in their organization and running of the government and i think the majority will of how to use free cash on the control other questions if i make one last very brief comment jeff i think i look part of the same way you do when asking for people to simply think twice i have in the past said she let's not make discreet decisions about how we appropriate money i  mean i've done that in the past when i was a member here i think that context is important we have a vote and i think you have to cite a context here i do think that the budget deficits are probably the most critical thing they're all ok thank you very very much we were arranged the capital projects that we are recommending to the town meeting in categories which is usually how we present them to the town meeting anyway so i don't know if it makes sense for me to go item by item or perhaps  item that one person didn't support but basically we do do a lot of discussion and by the time we work our way through it ninety nine percent of these votes on item by item were unanimous smaller we have the same dollar amount here for take a few dollars that we had last year we have one point three six six to spend in discretionary funds that does not of it is going to per the two thousand and fifteen override we now must set aside two hundred thousand dollars plus two and a half percent each year so the senate side for sidewalks this year of five hundred thousand dollars would be dedicated to pavement management in the capital budget three hundred four pavement and two hundred for sidewalk and so we're honoring that every year that's one of the first set asides for us but yet we feel if you need to add to that like i think the capital budget committee has made the commitment not to balance that two hundred and this year two hundred and ten thousand dollars against fire engines and the other things we want we set but it's pulled out much as the the ponging on the high school i'm system was that we had also just wanted to make sure i understood as it's a site before you get to the general fund budget yes so i mean if you like system this is just ongoing upgrades for their you know their their systems their what happens is the hardware becomes unavailable the things can't be fixed and so they have to be replaced and so it's a reasonable amount of money for us on those and that's the only request that the police department had fire department its staff vehicles were replacing to staff the nickels at fifty seven thousand to each they are also taking a d p w hand me down vehicle and turning that into what they call fire squad one and that's just a truck that they use to do some plowing and other sort of really hard beat up type jobs and that conversion is going to cost twelve thousand dollars we put in here the fire trucks even though this also is a separate side and it's somewhere else but because we've bought two large fire vehicles a pumper and a ladder truck in the last couple of years the bond payments on those two vehicles are one hundred eighty five thousand dollars so we draw people's attention to that so they don't forget that it's there but it's not coming out of our discretionary funds similarly we have a program where every year we set aside seven thousand dollars for a cardiac monitor and now it's bumped up a little bit to sixty five thousand dollars for a new ambulance and at the end of that five years we make those purchases so last year we made the purchase of the ambulance is due to be delivered in september and the cardiac monitor i think will be replaced next year so that's just money that we set aside so that we have like a little savings account when those vehicles come due to the spill rip the response trailer has been on the list of requests for number of years we decided to fund it this year twenty five thousand dollars we sidewalk otherwise we wouldn't you know go for i guess the only thing i can say is that a leak like this by the time it's discovered it's already done a lot of damage and if you then have to get on the year just looking for yourself because they seem expensive to me is there some special equipment were other things that they need may need to happen do we compare our purchase of those vehicles to other towns around of the purchases come off the state build list so it is the lowest cost and they are equipped significantly and they are certain of size and weight and have to do the job that they need to do also before anybody asked they explore hybrids and it's not workable one and why i think they do because they did you know really a significant overhaul of that center that you know nine one one center number of years ago and if you go in there now they have really a beautiful set up and i think there is a and there also is the ability to take all of that through the story also of the program that is using this money every year as a player and that it's been pulled together by a significant committee which involves all of the players including the police and the schools and everybody else so the plan is carefully laid out and i don't think there's any question about capacity to deal with the new additions they are all it's not all goes into cameras i know and i mean i think that they don't like to go into the absolute specifics about what they're going to buy because it's a security system so we don't have one by one account of what each year proposes but i don't believe it's all families although i do think there is going to be an increase of cameras there are not cameras to be more cost effective than constantly going outside for these kinds of things and so in order to maximize his ability to respond and do repairs and everything done in the buildings it would help him to have a specific  something thirty thousand dollars he said yes sister why do you know ventilators this is an ongoing program we finished up at the high school we've been doing high school for a number of years now we're moving into this building as you know this new school will be twenty years old in september and so we're really making an effort to stay on top of what needs to be done to keep things current and in good repair and so you see the unit ventilators on a cycle and this year we're also going to refinish the gym floor also on the list going into the out years will be the cafeteria or the stage floor i'm sure as we go down the road they'll be painting and other things to keep this but we also have a cafeteria floor replacement a butler school and finally our ongoing systemwide building envelope this also is a multi year program we try to put an average of two hundred two hundred thousand into that every year some years we do some years we don't you see here about one hundred ninety thousand moving into it this year we've just marched around building by building by building i'm not sure which building is going to be done with this money this year you know how many buildings will be  continue the program and you don't lose sight of it right question on which one is facilities management all right library there are some separate library items and we had actually two long discussions with the library about their requests and what we were willing to fund they have a two year program of upgrading light fixtures we get three provide the first year fifty thousand dollars and you can see here they're asking for stairwells restrooms hallways and several of the existing lighting again some people say did we just do that it feels like we did but it was a while ago and we feel that if we replace these pictures it will be more energy efficient and more cost effective to run crack fill and seal the parking lot one of the major issues there is that the plows who come in and do the parking lots really chew up the asphalt berms and so they'd like to get those cleaned up so that the parking delineation is better and again ongoing maintenance if you crack and if you fill the cracks then it last longer that's for twenty thousand dollars for a while they were looking at their gutters they become quite  there's holes in them i guess it wouldn't go and if you have water in the winter leaking through those gutters it creates ice where people are walking and that's a hazard and so they need to be fixed we pull forward the abatement or replacement of st well tiling because the tiles there vinyls best those tiles and we felt that that also was a safety issue and i have to say we all started with our stories of little children crawling up the stairs and whatnot and we fell for eighteen thousand dollars it made sense to try to get that done and then finally the library had a request for fifty thousand dollars to build out what they call quiet study rooms they wanted to quiet study rooms on the third floor of the library we had long discussions about that you know what's the long term future of that particular building what's the benefit first is the cost we ended up agreeing to give them thirty thousand dollars understanding that they probably could do one quiet study room or if they had some other monies that they could put towards it they could do the tools and that was up to them it's you know questions in the library all right d p w they have an ongoing program of converting trucks to become snow fighters it would cost you a million dollars to buy a brand snowplow but you c convert old or dump trucks for forty five thousand dollars and so that's what they do and it's really working for them and it works for us because it's not as expensive you see here the line item on the sidewalk said to ten they're also replace in one of their pick ups trucks that gets a lot of use in parks in the playgrounds for forty five thousand dollars question schools separate from buildings had two requests from books and carts we spent a long time discussing this and i see lisa here she could probably answer questions better than i can but we were convinced that this was a necessity we look at computers now as textbooks of the twenty first century however this is a a first buy this is an initial investment this is not a replacement of computers these are computers that are used now for testing m cas and some of those other tests that kids do it all different grade levels are now all done on computer we also spent a long time examining ourselves and saying if we went back to school would we be able to do this so luckily the kids today can do it on the computers and the carts allow them to be stored and pulled out and moved room to room and therefore grade to grade to be used so about forty thousand dollars to do that with the understanding that once we've established this platform and the replacements now goes back into the operating budget and then upgrade neck work wiring here in the general what's here is twenty years old and so we're just upgrading that to improve the speed of the internet  you know they have funded technology for other kinds of things that have technology drives so yeah i don't know what else they're funding i'm not that put into it right now but i think that would be something to to talk to him actually i think that there are some other funds coming into this idea as as i understood it the description we were given was that this did not cover the whole correct that there are other sources which are being used to cover some of the other parts of this for maybe perhaps just more of that as we move forward technology now is so pervasive do we in fact need to set up another fund or entity that's just all technology requests across the town schools  and no fighters it's just bizarre things we don't know what you know so so when you look at the i t it's fiber network assessment mapping and testing this is an ongoing program we've been putting sixty thousand dollars into this for a while every year and upgrade the speed of the town network hubs this was explained to us that this is a network hub down on prince street that serves the waverly side of town and so when you look at the senior center one of the fire stations a lot of stuff going on on that side of town and i believe that this is the planning document for what will be a much more expensive ask in the next few years to actually do the work and make the structure was three years just for the general government and schools and schools right but it may include i think it what it's going to include right because that's what it's what is now located the old order of like building primarily and then those it's a natural her ancillary yeah so all the departments have to speak to each other and  know technology question one request from council on aging and this is the kind of request we love because they were able to access a grant to replace their i think it's a twelve year old van that takes senior citizens to medical appointments has one hundred fifty thousand miles on it the grant will provide eighty percent of the cost of a fifty six thousand dollars van so all they asked fifteen add to that the chapter ninety funds from the states we also have called out one item a specific request for safety upgrades in front of the burbank much like we did the butler last year and we replicated here the sidewalks so we have a total of two point four spend on pavement management this year and that really is the maximum that this department can handle and any building season study which will lay out a part of the plan for me doing sidewalks similar to the one good enough for roads that's been in place for roads for many years which should make the spending of those two hundred ten thousand much more efficient and appropriate because they didn't have a sense of priorities before this one for the sidewalks they were taking the class and they got more press than they can fill so they will now have a significant plan in place to make it  it's just just to follow up on that and that's a common i made last year that if you could encourage them to at least think about using the g i s system to grip the sidewalk later within within that that would that historically each department have their own within their department budget there was a capital line item going way back in the school department which is where most were really with my  had major minor maintenance and they tended to be capital things minor maintenance was easy major maintenance would be the capital replacements as money became tighter and tighter after proposition two and a half those items then started to be passed off to the capitol budget committee and every department did that because every department was being squeezed so at some point the capitol budget committee said whoa wait a minute we're not taking on everybody's make no sense that's not our mission and so we had to push back a little bit and try to encourage the departments to take care of their own maintenance but if it comes down to personnel or maintenance often personnel wins out because you need people to do the job and so yes we have an ongoing concern that the maintenance get done and that's why we're really jumping on requests for this building to keep this building in tip top shape and when we try to do as many requests as we can but as bob pointed out we're trying to balance for the library or the d p w or the police department appropriate maintenance of program repairs appropriate purchases for buildings that will hopefully be replaced in the fairly near future if you wanted if you had an issue with something in a particular category in favor of the transfer but we did ask some questions that are just highlight going to understand why we missed so much when when most of us thought was a pretty low key winner compared to winners in the past so it was below average snowfall but when we did exceed the budget and one of the main reasons that there was about three storms that were pretty lengthy in duration i think we all remember i've fortunately was away for two those which i would not appreciate but  they were lengthy in duration and they were heavy with ice and needed constant treatment so where as you see with the budget really were we were missed on the budget was the totems of labor snow over time as well as then the increased with using contractors part of it was also a fellow one at least fell on a sunday so that's double time so that it cost and the rule contractors we try to minimize the use of them but if it's over six inches and or twenty four hours in duration we have to rely on contractors another thing choose maiden's increase we did have some you know again ice put a little bit more wear and tear on the on the on the equipment we did also asked oh you know are we budgeting not enough too much with the right number the budget we were given a table some towns under budget significantly and there always are pulling from the reserve fund others are budgeting three aggressively we tend to be in the upper  was in the reserve funds for thirteen fourteen fifteen was the big one but that was reimbursed a lot of that was reimbursed because of the of the federal funds so one thing that came up while looking at some of this data and i think we're going to follow great question that was not brought up a little bit because i know at least one of them was kind of one of those major you know if there was a state of emergency the pavement program it came up the other night at the border so at that meeting there's seventy five miles of road in and there's eight eight miles of private way it's my understanding that we have our private lives as well just as a insurance but again it's triggered by literally by snowfall and a lot of the costs of the town and you know nice this is related to life certainly snow so even though our under you don't get you paid a premium for a year which goes into the snow and ice budget and you can't collect on that and i think in general when there's a storm that event that affects the region or the also treat them plow private road surface of the road surfaces i'm just wondering how our practice compares to our neighbors so that's one thing i looked at when i received the expenses for two citizen if i had a choice of being transported by a council on aging van with a driver that was known to the c e o way and go to the town versus some random who knows hold that shows up at my front door i think i'd go with the ceiling man i think maybe down the road it were a lift and all those would be would form some kind of system that work then that might be vetted but when you have a van that specifically outfitted to drive or knows the town and knows the constituency i think there's a lot of value in the handicapped aspect of the van is just fundamentally different  does the grocery stores in the symphony and restaurant and all that stuff it's two very different things just a question maybe for the human services committee is there a charge to take a ride and don't even know and nor is it means explain is for the rest of the articles you know the discussion is we're pretty much ok those were the two that that we hadn't had that we haven't really come to conclusion on but we did not go to anything which i regret strong enough it seems to me that it's come about because the legislature has maybe changed and every time report is extremely capable but at the same time and i just don't see that there's a compelling justification to increase the call especially for one point seven billion dollars which i believe is likely to be a conservatively low estimate the true impact on the liability now if it turns out that in the future that there is there there continues to be a very above average rate of return on the port on the pension invested investment portfolio and the and there's a great progress made to put the funding schedule even ahead of twenty twenty nine maybe this a very significant increase given our other concerns for that year it would also be very helpful to see some analysis of how you think it's the benefits over time to look at the actual co yes i and i don't know if that analysis exists but i don't it does but if you don't have it than then you deserve to have basically what they do is start to use the word basically increase and they've they've gone back in history and they've shown that they've been pretty much tracking social security but the data is available so we can it can be provid getting what was bargained for in the past this is a unilateral increase and we don't have any information on the financial circumstances of the retirees i don't know what other assets the drawing upon of other people have other jobs and other benefits it's treated fairly by the town in some sense i would like to know that but that case out of the way this was like well you know we can only vote on what we know and if if this if we're presented with different information next year we can reconsider but i that the the difference between the liability in two thousand fiscal two thousand and fifteen in two thousand and sixteen is some fourteen million dollars it went from sixty one million to seventy five million on the balance sheet in the reason for that is that in fiscal two thousand and fifteen they are in two point two percent now that's obviously a lot lower than the discount rate that was used which at that point time was seven point seven five but that two point two percent was again in the top ten percent top i mean this group is a very good performing group so if you average eight point nine with two point two there you know they're somewhere in the mid five so they're there actually four four percentage points below where the forecast is in that's why it's reset every two years and then you you find out what your new liability is the other thing we didn't two thousand and sixteen or actually they did which we approved was they change the mortality table and they reduced the discount rate from seven point seven five to seven point five but that seven point five numbers backed up by data i mean you can say in this environment it's hard earned seven and a half percent on my portfolio but there's plenty of data to support that number and also in the actuarial report i think they do up and down one hundred basis points or one percent so if you want to look at the sensitivity you can do that and if you lower that rate six percent the number is a lot bigger well i did put in the in the executive summary of the orange committee report as a warning that if there is a shortfall in the investment return between now and twenty twenty nine that will be a significant issue and i would be much more comfortable if we did have an extra one point seven million having that in reserve in case from the shortfall and to increase on them now at this point if i may just say one other thing in that is that if you look at the difference at the individual retiree level it's several hundred dollars you know so it you know from where they're they're coming from it's it's not it's not a bad ask you know if it makes sense to them to ask this i understand from where we're coming from that we have we also have responsibility to the to the taxpayer and so a million a million seven is a big number and if we're going to do it i think we have to pay for it is there i have made a motion that we recommend on table action second by second second  so just to quantify the remainder that the other motions to increase the survivor benefit spousal benefit are in the same category it's just that the numbers are not sure a survivor benefits the six thousand to twelve thousand dollars the schedule says the additional cost of that in terms of the total impact on the unfunded liability is one hundred eighty four thousand dollars and it's really three people point i mean even if we were to view that hundred eighty four thousand dollars as relatively de minimus it storm expansion of benefits at a time when one from my perspective you know we are still facing a challenge to meet the outstanding obligations that we already have and so i thought i wouldn't support any changes to benefits that lead to more spending without affected you know it's it's expected that that gets taken care of when the law changes and somebody is trapped in between so it's not without it's not without precedent i don't know being trapped means in this context that i was  hardships in unusual circumstances mr chairman we're going to have the same problem on monday if we don't get the answers to these questions can we get the answers to these questions and provide them to this committee would that be hopeful well for retirement poor this is a top gun group they're at the top of the investment returns year after year these are serious people to i believe are selectmen in other towns and they do this out as a matter of public service but it's not a town department it's a completely different animal and it's somebody that it's a body that we have to deal with we can recommend the payment schedule and then as you saw they have the final word in so you try to make sure that it's it's not loaded with tension but it could get to that point and i'm not saying that would have i don't think one thousand five hundred dollars matters to any of anybody knows the answer is they talk a lot about asset allocation investment performance do they generate investment performance i mean in terms of are they actually setting asset allocation are they picking investments and i believe they have a portfolio understand i don't know if this is even worth thinking about because it's not that much money but i don't understand the town's history of stipends for boards other boards you know i mean if you want to select one the moderator you know there are th small amount of money but when this sort of thing comes up i'm not sure how it just seems crazy i'm not either but i was my impression here was to countenance a increase but not as large as the one they're asking for as a token of goodwill that could lead to an excellent word and we certainly appreciate the work they do if they elected to resign over this issue you know it would be a problem unfortunately but i was going to propose thirty five hundred dollars a stipend instead of forty five hundred know i can't say it's based on science it's just that i view it this is essentially a volunteer activity and so i don't understand the rationale for the study and so that's that's that's the only reason why i wouldn't information he got in school department and the report has already been distributed but we will find a way to circulate the corrected page and to make sure that the version of the report that's posted on the website will be the most current  but i would like to talk about five star knows motion just for a minute and we can continue this till next week or so if necessary in the meeting next week just say understand yes but i think we have to because it's the last opportunity before i hear what bob saying i just i frankly do not share his concern in that i think we're all agreed that we will be as  us as possible in talking over what my town has whether it's in free cash or the general able station fund and i just don't see any basis to think it will be some dreaming of the cookie jar so to speak tween now and november so given that we will have additional information coming of amber between serve a cation of free cash more information about the modul and anything else that happens between now and then i don't see that i will see if there's any benefit to pursuing this policy now because it is emphatically not creating any new money it's just where we choose to keep money that we already have so it's it's you know i fully understand bob's concern about making the override last but we all share that concern and i don't i don't see that that this proposal actually changes anything and i would say that the the change in the budget that was implemented last week actually does contribute a million dollars effectively to generous the general stabilization fund because we were going to draw on it by nine hundred  going to support it i think it takes us down within the range of our of our of our policy you know of our guideline to be between three percent and five percent and and just in contrast to to bob's comments i think that we have that we know we have them a lot more competing with judith needs for this for this is a money and so by putting it into the general stabilization fund where making an additional contribution to general stabilization fund in the fall once we get greater certainty about can i mention situation i need not i was just going to that because jenny jenny raised it i mean the the other reason why i think i mean this should be a vote just to whether we want to be at the three percent or four percent this is a financial issue and we should get used to dealing with this at the annual town meeting that deals with finances which is june and then the notion that we want to keep pushing major financial matters off the special town meetings when we've got the capability to make a to make him decision about it is it's it's just a little frustrating i just want to say i overheard you talking about that treasure having opposition to this and i would be i don't expect you to speak for him but i would like to hear what he would have to say as we lay this decision well we could wait until next week and by the treasury to attend we can  thirds and then it's a question of do you do you trust the majority there's already been talk about funding the the modulars fifty percent with this million three from the sale of the parking lot in then another fifty percent from free cash and i agree with with bob bob's take on this that it should be funded by a bond in the free cash and so there's there's thinking behind this that you know if you're going to you can use the funds from the sale of the parking lot because it was a sale of a capital asset to finance a capital asset but then do you really want to use free cash to fund the for capital asset lease and yeah i think the treasurer makes him slightly different or additional remarks that i would like him to be able to speak to at the town meeting planning meeting so i think that's important and i think it's also i am against around too because it's really last year i thought that it should have been funded by a bond also which would have allowed money to go into the stabilization fund also i was under the understanding that this the sale of the parking lot was going to eventually end up  one thing i think the committee should be mindful of is that the year over year increase in this budget is three point seven percent which is not sustainable it is a level service budget and we have to be mindful of that going forward but isn't it true that in the third year of the override there were additional teachers for a good but there were part of the plan as was not quite level services and here it is it was as