good morning ladies and gentlemen and before i start i just want to note for the members that last night congressman pickering and i introduced legislation to preserve internet freedom  consumers and innovators it is a bill which in shrines the broad principles of openness and safeguarding the internet's vital role in our economy tasks the f c c with conducting an assessment of broadband practices and consumer rights including public hearings and a report back to congress we would welcome members who wish to co sponsor to join us in this bipartisan an issue today we are three  hundred seventy days away from a significant milestone in the history of television this morning's hearing will give us an important status check on our progress towards a successful consumer friendly transition the government's coupon program has begun and already this year some two point five million consumers have requested coupons toward the purchase of converter boxes valued at roughly one hundred and ninety million dollars retailers are stocking such converter boxes on shelves for coupon redemption imminently they broadcast and cable industries have stepped up to public service announcements and engage in consumer outreach as well the details of the national plan to affect you eight this transition were embodied in a budget act in the last congress and were not endorsed by many members on the democratic side of the aisle including myself and chairman dingell nevertheless we are committed to trying to make this plan to work toward that goal this subcommittee intends to continue vigorous oversight of the d t d transition and to closely with our republican colleagues to ensure its success today there are several issues at the moment that merit our attention first we are eager to be reassured that the converter box program and redemption process is working smoothly second because the signal characteristics of digital transmission and the interest of paid a geographic coverage area for individual broadcasters are different than for analog television many consumers may not receive the digital version of channels they currently receive after the switch it is important to know how many such households will be affected by this and the extent to which households may need to adjust or require antennas to receive digital signals third there are hundreds of low powered television stations and thousands of translators that will not be converting to digital in february of next year it is still unclear how many communities and how many television households will be affected by this in addition only a small percentage of the approved converter boxes permit the so called pass through of the analog signals so that consumers can easily see both digital and analog television in markets where some broadcasters will convert and others won't it is vital to ensure that steps are taken by the f c c and the n t to coordinate on these matters with the affected industries so that the consumer education and outreach efforts affectively guards against widespread consumer confusion in these communities and finally i want to commend several major retailers are taking action to limit consumer confusion it has been my concern that analog only televisions remain on the shelves of major retailers and could result in consumers unwittingly purchasing a t v set due to to need additional equipment in little over one year best buy has already voluntarily removed its analog inventory on the shelves and radio shack is poised to do so by march first in addition i have this announcement to read from wal mart today quote although retailers are not prohibited from selling v s with an analog tuner wal mart believes it is important consistent with congressional concern and counsel from chairman markey to remove the very small number of t v s with an analog tuner from our inventory this is consistent with wal mart's early commitment to the n t i a converter box program and to otherwise facilitating transition to all digital television broadcasting we are currently working with return centers and the walmart foundation to determine the best way to handle the remaining inventory which was extremely small approximately one tenth of one percent of existing television inventory this statement is effective as of yesterday so i want to commend wal mart best buy radio shack and other retailers for taking this welcome step and i urge all retailers to take the same step and to take it immediately so that consumers are not misled that the television set the analog television set that they may be buying will work next year without additional help again we have many issues to discuss and examine and i want to thank all of our witnesses for their willingness to attend this hearing and i look forward to their testimony and now i will turn and recognize the ranking member of the telecommunications and internet subcommittee the gentleman from florida my good friend mr thank you mr chairman and i'm pleased to be here the ranking member and i always look forward to working with you i hope with this net neutrality bill that you dropped it will have many hearings to bet the language so we can all understand how it's in shrine and so we'll look forward to that and you know i think by setting the date of february seventeenth two thousand and nine is a date  for full power broadcasters to transmit exclusively the digital format of the d d t v legislation gave industry i think the needed incentive to prepare for the transition and i think the results a you briefly mentioned there are working well with over a year to go manufacturers have already designed thirty seven coupon eligible converter boxes at the n t i a has certified two hundred and fifty retailers with a total of fifteen thousand stores ready to accept these coupons consumers have requested almost five million coupons suggesting awareness is not necessarily a big problem the national telecommunication information the ministration will start sending coupons to consumers next weekend radio shack best buy circuit city and wal mart have already announced they're ready to accept them a consumer electronics association of two thousand u s adults indicates that consumer awareness of the transition has grown eighty percent since the year two thousand and six according to the c e o survey the joint educational efforts of government and the private sector  working and the digital television transition will be a success research revealed that the top sources consumers are using to learn about the transition includes television about seventy two percent family and friends about forty percent and the internet about twenty five percent this shows that the educational campaigns by the industry and the government are working in the national association of broadcasters has spent more than one billion on a comprehensive consumer education drive included in their campaign our public service announcement in both english and spanish d t v messages running across programming on local stations and a media blitz to promote the d t v transition cable operators have launched a two hundred million dollars public education campaign and committed to carrying both the analog and digital signals of both a full power commercial must carry broadcasters for three years to help smooth the d t v transition my colleague this these examples demonstrate that a market based approach works all these groups in many others should be commended for their efforts the benefits of the d t v transition extends far beyond that of clear pictures and more choices about what programs to watch the real benefits will come from what is done with the radio spectrum once the t v broadcasters are cleared including providing public safety with the resources they need to ensure reliable interoperable communications now and into the future although the number of people using over the air signal is decreasing there still needs to be a place in place a system to help consumers who may wish to use analog television with over the air antennas after the transition the d t v legislation gives the n t i a up to one point five billion for digital to analog converter box program the statue directs to use nine hundred ninety million to enable us households to request up to two forty dollars coupons for use towards a purchase of converter  box at the end certifies to congress as a program progresses that it needs more money there is available another five hundred ten million dollars so it is important that we don't make any rash changes today doing so will only recreate the uncertainty that was delaying the transition in the first place and preventing us from clearing spectrum for public safety and advance wireless service the third generation for example low power broadcasters are now demanding that n t i a require all converter boxes to include an analog pass through and the d s c see give them must carry rights neither is necessary there are already four coupon eligible converter box with low power passthrough features and there's more on the way the market is taking care of this changing the box requirements now by contrast could lead retailers and manufacturers to withdraw from the program altogether and expanding muskerry could force programming off of cable system right as we are going through this very delicate transition we are much better off keeping the current course and assessing as we move along wholesale changes could put the transition in jeopardy and i don't think any one of us want that these are important issues mr chairman thank you for this hearing and i look forward to hearing from our witnesses  what i believe is a critical subject i'd like to address a few comments to chairman martin good morning chairman martin your appearance before this subcommittee give many of us the chance on  regular basis to tell you what you're doing wrong but today i thought we might acknowledge or i would like to acknowledge what you're doing right this seven hundred megahertz auction began on time it has largely succeeded and the open access conditions that many of us argued for have stuck congratulations though the d block which the commission set aside for a nationwide public safety network has not yet sold and likely will not something that troubles me greatly i still think we should applaud you for your boldness in pursuing a multifaceted plan and that applause obviously extends to the other members of the  as the ranking member just said and as you know i agree the point of the d t v transition is not converter boxes the point is  satisfy a six year quest for a nationwide public safety broadband network that gives true operable communications for emergency  responders that need has been apparent since nine eleven maybe even before nine eleven and we're not much closer to meeting that need now than we were six years ago as i often say we have a regional operability but we do not have national interest or ability and we won't have it until the spectrum becomes available i think a public private partnership using seven hundred megahertz spectrum is still our best  hope i think that the failure of the deep black option if it has failed or if it does fail does not signal the failure of the public private partnership concept if the auction ends without a de block winner to improve consumer education many of those who will be affected will come from rural districts like mine but many will also come from urban districts forward to learn how you plan to inform my constituents that many of them will need an analog pass through not just converter box but a pass through converter box chairman martin circulate some proposals to be addressed by the f c c later this month regarding satellite providers and i wanted to focus on one of them liberty media acquisition of time called news corp provide universal local to local a sham off the news corp efforts to sell their share of directv we're seeing his prediction come true subscribers in rural america are being tired or tired of being ignored by urged the f c c to work towards ensuring television markets are treated equally to their urban counterparts it's time for congress and the f c c to look at a hard date for mandatory local to local carriage in all two transition which has resulted in a greater and greater focus on consumer concern and a greater understanding of the challenges we face as a move ahead of today's hearing promises to be a bit more technical in nature we'll talk about class television stations analog pass through on the technical specs of converter boxes and i look forward to the testimony of our witnesses my conversation with them during this discussion it is my hope we keep sight of the reason we are transitioning to digital television and the reason we are all here today the interest of the american people even as we move toward a single digital signal over our public airwaves we are sending mixed signals to consumers about how they can continue to receive the same local and cultural content particularly concerned about my spanish speaking trans constituents many of whom enjoy spanish language channels brought to them via translator or low power stations these folks may be completely shut out during this transition so i look forward to this testimony as i said and the proposals that chairman martin and acting assistant secretary baker will bring us and to further to about how we can avoid this kind of breakdown how will we streamline this transition for low power television stations i want to also hear more about how and where converter boxes will be made available some of which is already come from our chairman what labeling procedures make the best sense for all kinds of consumers so thank you chairman markey and to our witnesses today  the witnesses for being here that will also be testifying and we're just more than a year left before our broadcast television stations transition to digital we're learning about the new challenges and must work very hard to address all of these issues i'm particularly concerned as you know about the transition along the us mexican border with ample analog spanish language programming originating in mexico it's still available after transition along the border locatable and satellite penetration and language barriers could leave thousands and thousands of households behind rendition that's why i'm introducing the d t v border fix act to provide full power broadcasters within fifty miles of the us mexican border the opportunity to continue analog broadcast for five years after the transition the bill ensures the border area viewers will continue to receive emergency information and news over the us television broadcast system the bill is limited in scope and would work in cooperation with the f c c so that such broadcasts do not interfere with the public interest or spectrum auctions i've also have concerns about the challenges facing low power t v and how the need for analogue pass through boxes can be met for both low power t v and the border region we need to work together both the government of the private the right boxes are appropriate areas in addition i'm concerned about potential problems expected services so i look forward to hearing from your test and again i want to hear comments regarding the transition that will occur along the us mexican border because i really do believe that we are going to disenfranchise a very large population v transition we're just a little over a year away from the end of the transition at which time a lot of television sets around the country are going to go dark and much remains to be done consumers must be properly educated and they are not both the federal communications commission and a number of industries stand to benefit and sibley from this matter and they all have responsibilities for the most seriously serious sort with regard to these matters and as february seventeenth two thousand and nine we must learn of new steps that must be taken and i note that time is running short and the american consuming public has little appreciation of what lies before them recently requested twenty million for do t v consumer education in fiscal year two thousand and nine i still find this amount however woefully short and inadequate for an educational campaign that is to reach some three hundred million americans chairman martin has also circulator order regarding consumer education in response to a let by you mr chairman and by me i commend you for moving forward on this important matter and i want to look forward to the cooperation of chairman martin and to hearing from to consumers whose original coupons have expired this ninety day coupon expiration date is cause for concern because consumers might not able to find stores with stock before the coupons expire i understand along with their vendor i b m are working to resolve this problem and i thank them for their efforts we must be mindful of the situation confronting low power broadcasters only for power broadcasters are required to transition to digital next year low power and translator stations may take more time this means that in some markets some stations will be broadcasting  only after february seventeenth two thousand and nine while other stations will continue to broadcast in analog this could lead to some very serious complications and complexities the potential for confusion here then appears high for those consumers that acquire a digital converter box and then are not able to receive analog channels going to has a potential for more mischief and confusion i want to applaud those manufacturers who translator to do their part to educate their viewers about the need to purchase a converter box with analog pass or capability and of course we need those kinds of boxes at an early time finally some of the biggest television stations digital program programming is denied to almost half of all direct broadcast satellite households now that represents nearly twelve million households because one major d b s provider has failed to negotiate a long term deal with public television last november i introduced a bill h r forty one twenty one to require d b s kerridge public television station the digital signals and i'm pleased that a little more than a month ago directv the association for public television stations and p b s announced that they had reached an agreement whereby direct t v would carry public television stations digital signals but as we move closer to february seventeenth two thousand and nine i think it's unacceptable for any household in the country to be maligned access to public television digital programming the american people love p b s and we've done a lot of battles here over the years to help protect it so i don't think this is a small item on the agenda i'm anxious to hear from mr jackson who's going to testify why echostar carries h d programming for all the major commercial networks but doesn't provide h programming produced by public television stations and i'll have more questions to ask about on this in this particular area and as well as other questions so we're moving along i think that there is some progress i'm disturbed most frankly mr chairman not chairman markey but chairman martin about the treatment of cable by you i don't know what cable have done to so enraged you but i think we need to have a conversation about that because we have important providers throughout the country and i think the relationships are really very important and i want to hear more about what is so troubling you program and how to laugh at the most estimates indicate fourteen to twenty million households rely on over the air broadcast according to stats earlier this week only two point eight million households have applied for the coupons and far as i am concerned public education is most critical and least coordinated component of the transition and where i am too heavily on the private sector to address that component along with the eight hundred help lines need to be staffed with operators can them to the subcommittee we welcome you back chairman martin you have been a frequent guest before us over the last year we thank you for that and we congratulate  you miss baker for your promotion and congratulations to you and thank you for joining this team to ensure that this transition occurs on time and without a glitch so we thank you both chairman martin the last time you were here i said that you are the tom brady of the transition i would like and i'll say i would like you to be the eli manning of man and hope is that we can put a plan in place a little over one year from today all television stations will start broadcasting an analog and only broadcast and digital this transition will be historic moment the evolution of television television viewers will be able to enjoy movie quality picture and sound and potentially a wealth of new programming choices will also allow us to significantly improve public safety communications and last year in a new era of advanced wireless services such as wide widespread deployment of wireless broadband as i have testified previously successful digital transition will depend upon minimizing the burdens placed on consumers and maximizing their ability to benefit from it today's hearing is a welcome opportunity to discuss the commission's work both in terms of consumer outreach and education and the necessary regulatory steps which are taking so that all americans can enjoy the benefits of this story digital transition the commission is working to put in place the rules and policies to enable broadcasters to technically complete the conversion from analog to digital last august we adopted the final d t v table of allotments based on the channel actions made by all the full power broadcast stations this order provides virtually all over ninety nine percent  television stations across the country with their final digital channels signed at the end of last year we also conclude our third d t b periodic review in that order the commission established the procedures and rules that will guide the broadcasters through the end of the transition we adopt a procedure that will allow broadcaster to adjust their build out according to their needs in the needs of their viewers currently more than ninety five percent of full power television stations are broadcasting the digital signal nearly two thirds of the full power stations will remain on the same channel they are currently using for the digital service and most of the stations have already completed the construction and already providing full service to their viewers we recognize it is important for the commission to continually monitor the broadcasters progress towards the transition and accordingly we required each station to file periodic updates on the status of the construction of a supposed transition facility and in fact the first of those such updates is due next week the commission has before it an item that would enable satellite subscribers to receive digital broadcast signals depending item clarifies that when broadcasters make the transition is the digital signal that the satellite operator must carry last fall the commission adopted in order to guarantee that all cable customers will be able to watch all broadcast stations after the digital transition specifically the commission to get action to ensure that cable operators continue to make signals of all broadcast ations viewable after the transition as the statute requires these items should help reduce the burden on consumers and thereby fostering a smooth transition to the commission d t v related and forstmann efforts focused on protecting consumers from unknowingly buying televisions that don't that won't receive broadcast stations following the transition with respect to the commissions labeling requirement the commission has of has as a february eleventh today two thousand and eight inspected one thousand eight hundred eight hundred twenty nine retail stores and websites and issued three hundred sixty two sixteen citations notifying those retailers of violations were found comply with our requirements we also have fourteen and a l's with a four million dollars total average pending before the commission in addition to our label investigations we are continuing to ensure that no manufacturers are importing and shipping analog only television receivers we also ensuring that the digital tuners comply with the v chip regulations thanks to information referred to us  chairman we began investigating allegations that some manufacturers were not complying with the z chip rules and as a result of these investigation we released and then the elegance tonight corporation for seven point seven million and then alles against nine other manufacturers for over six and a half million are also on circulation would force one of all these d t b related rules is critical to protecting consumers and reducing potential confusion in our t v s in this area will continue to be a priority during the next twelve months according to data from the consumer electronics association in the national association of broadcasters there's been some success in making consumers aware of the transition recent surveys published by the n a b and consumers union found that seventy nine percent and sixty four percent of consumers were aware of the transition respectively while this increased awareness is a step in the right direction too many americans remain confused about what they need to do to prepare for for instance the consumer's union reported that seventy four percent of consumers have major misconceptions about the impact that this can this conversion will have on them now that many consumers are aware of the transition we need to focus our efforts and our outreach on sending them a clear and consistent message about how to get prepared at the suggestion of chairman dingell and chairman markey the commission is considering a proposal to require the industry to use public service announcements bill inserts and other techniques to educate consumers about the transition just last friday we received a proposal from the national association of broadcasters setting forth alternative actions as a safe harbor that broadcasters could take to educate consumers about transition we're currently in the process of evaluating this new proposal and hope to finalize this item quickly in addition to our d t v consumer education item the commission is actively and directly promoting consumer awareness of the upcoming transition nearly every bureau and office of the commission has been involved in this effort including our field offices around the country at the suggestion of year we are also utilizing commission staff located around the country as the field offices as the field agents are continuing to distribute information at senior centers libraries and other local venues they have already distribute information to over thirty one hundred senior community centers made three hundred eighty five presentations and have one hundred six kegel just in the days ahead we've also been forging new partnerships and participating in media events attending conferences and continue to do whatever we can to get the word out for example d t b education posters will be displayed in all thirty four thousand post offices around the country and the united states postal service estimates an average of nine million people pass through their retail lobbies each day we've also secured commitments from twenty four states the district of columbia puerto rico to display d t v materials and eleven hundred department of motor vehicle locations and the f c c is consumer efforts and outreach continue place never insist on consumers who receive their television signals over the year and on those who are hard to reach including senior sent senior citizens non speaking non english speaking minority communities people  disability and low income individuals and people living in rural areas we've been taking several specific steps to reach each of these groups for example the a a r p has agreed to disseminate digital transmission transition information through its tax aid program that makes volunteers available to assist a r p members in repairing their taxes we also know that the hispanic community disproportionately relies on over the air television of the fifty million broadcast hole only homes one third is occupied by primarily spanish speaking  the spanish chamber of commerce and univision have agreed to join the commission conducting d t b awareness sessions and member member change it did spend a chamber of commerce and member chambers in the ten biggest cities nationwide and which were home to eighty percent of hispanic population the first of these as we head later this month in chicago the commission is also taking steps to inform low income consumers about the transition to all digital broadcasting for example the department of health and human services has made a commitment to assist the  materials through at least six of their agencies to target populations including low income consumers for example through their administration through their administration for children and families they will distribute information through their approximately fifteen hundred headstart grantees covering more than six thousand locations throughout the country and their health resources and services administration will distribute flyers and information through their four thousand community health centers this morning i'm also pleased to announce that today the commission's contract in purchasing center awarded a web videos educational videos podcast and satellite media tours the material developed we reproduce will be produced in multiple languages and formats and in addition ketchum is playing to support advertising on transit systems and eighteen cities and over three hundred locations been awarded this contract we are working with ketchum to jumpstart our efforts by arranging a satellite media tour next week to highlight the switch to digital one year before the deadline we are also asking ketchum to develop specific plans for use in grocery stores and other retail outlets frequented by our target audiences although i believe that a lot of progress was made to facilitate a smooth trenches and there is obviously still more work to be done for example one of the areas that the commission is recently been spending a lot of time on is how to best ensure that consumers will continue to be able to view low power television stations which are not required transition digital next year i've proposed a goal of two thousand and twelve all over power stations to transition to digital in the meantime i have asked of the leaders of several in a few organizations to take voluntary steps to help to help consumers continue to watch all broadcast in our next witness in her first appearance before the committee the honorable merit baker acting assistant secretary for communications and information from the department of and to discuss successful launch of the t v converter box coupon program and our strong commitment to continued public education and outreach efforts so that this historic and important transition can take place and no american television viewer is unprepared on february eighteenth two thousand and nine and january first consumers across the nation successfully and efficiently began to order coupons by phone mail fax and on line consumers from every state in the nation applied on the first day by the end of the first week had received over one point one million requests for two point one million coupons while this initial volume was high all systems continue to handle requests to date  has accepted more than two point four million household requests for more than four point eight million coupons approximately forty seven percent of these households have identified themselves as reliant on over the air television on the average sixty four point five percent are applying on the web thirty four point nine percent by phone only point five percent by mail and point one percent by fax the overwhelming majority have been able to complete the application process in minute minutes with ease we've made some adjustments and improvements as we learn about consumer experiences for example we have added more spanish language operators and a spanish language are those spanish and english language is now have a wait time of less than twenty seconds for a live operator interest in the program and demand for coupons indicate that consumers are becoming increasingly aware that the t v transition and the program thanks go to in a b c e a and others members of the d t v coalition by our estimate our consumer education efforts have attracted upwards of three hundred fifty million print and broadcast media impressions related to the program since september of last year while we had in g i a have done over sixty interview since the beginning of this year secretary gutierrez himself has done twenty five actually over twenty five because he did good morning america this morning interviews on the transition in both spanish and in english since january one in t i s consumer education campaign focuses on the role of the coupon program during the transition and leverage is opportunities for partnership we with ketchum which is a good choice by the f c c have developed a comprehensive tool kit which is information to make participation of partners easy such as flyers and closures and sample p as consumer education partners currently include over one hundred thirty social service and community organizations which serve are vulnerable communities the low income the seniors the rural residents the minorities and the disabled americans more than fifteen federal agencies have committed to use their existing channels to get the word out about the coupon program chairman martin outlined some of these some other examples are the v a the v a is leveraging their incredible network that touches twenty four million veterans the department of agriculture will distribute information with their food stamps program and their school lunch program and his chest will be activating the administration on aging has been greatly encouraged by the robust to spacious of manufacturers and retailers and the coupon program as of yesterday we had certified thirty seven converter boxes that meet our specifications these boxes are priced between forty and seventy dollars we are continuing to review and certified boxes as manufacturers come into this program and we have offered expedited recertification for the version mailing coupons to consumers next week they look like this and have been working closely with participating consumer electronics to calibrate the release of the coupon with the supply of the converter boxes the agency has certified more than six hundred fifteen retailers at this point to participate in a program which represents sixteen thousand outlets nationwide to assist these retailers in ordering their inventory has made available on the web as well as to the retailers the number of coupons requested by each state within their three digit zip code we have also made employee training materials available and tested the process in a limited to market pilot program when the coupons are mailed next week we will have nine thousand retailer locations that will be participating in a program throughout all fifty states puerto rico and the u s virgin islands i'd like to thank best buy radio shack and circuit city for their leadership and participation the stores have completed the certification program their employees are trained the converter boxes are in their stores and their systems are ready to redeem coupons more retailers will be activated and more boxes will be available in the coming weeks we will carefully monitor and assess the process as it rolls out and we'll take any further necessary actions to ensure the consumer experience remains favorable with the coupon program i received your letter chairman markey and others of the committee and on the issues expiration of coupons and i'll be happy to work with you and your staff to address this issue where of concerns have been raised about the impact of the t v transmission of years of low power and translator stations and on residents of nursing homes and we are taking steps to address these matters i'd like to thank  for their hard work and getting this program off to such a successful start thank you again for the opportunity to testify before you today i have enjoyed working with your staff and the d t d caucus and i look forward to more collaboration as we work together to make this transition successful  that will need new antennas as a result of this transition we say first that our our estimate is that all of the viewers within their predicted contour of the broadcast stations will continue to receive their broadcast signals today just as  e after the transition just as they do today so what you're there is going to be a change potentially for some consumers who are outside that predicted contour those are those are consumers today who are not within where we expect the broadcasters to be able to serve but maybe on the rural areas or in other communities who still pick up some of those other broadcast signals and there could be some change on that i ask our engineers that question in response the centrist survey that was released earlier this week which they had some questions about and think there are some flaws and  they estimate that that will be five percent or less change and this would only be on consumers who are outside where where we say broadcasters must serve today but i have read others that we are in a situation where people may receive the signal in those areas and perhaps they're not expected to but they do today and beginning next year they won't any longer so i think it's important for us to deal with how people actually do relate to the signals in the log we don't have any way to know for sure because those are the people that are receiving it that broadcast signals and they are not expected to be in the broadcasters are not expected to be serving those they're picking up signals beyond where the very important for us to know how many of those people will need antennas so that there is an understanding of what will happen on that day in terms of the number of people who will be complaining that they have all we've received a signal there in the analog era and they are now not even though under our historical guidelines perhaps they weren't expected to receive it but they did receive it and now they won't receive it any longer and as i said the only estimate i have from our engineers they think it to be less than  that less than five percent of the consumers who would be an impacted because because there is a again a and i everyone who's in the predicted contour will continue to be do you think antennas will be a big problem in other words in that area do you think that we might be talking about millions of people who will have to purchase antennas today would would not necessarily need to use an antenna in order to receive a signal but me try to explain it away or at the engineers explain to me th concerns for example with the centrist survey that was released this week that said that they said that the central survey the flaw in that study is it compared the analog broadcasting today to digital broadcasting tomorrow and it is suv than analog broad consumers today have an antenna on their roof as our models as our model assumes and has for years and they compare that to digital signals tomorrow and assume the consumers did not have an antenna on the roof and only had rabbit ears  comparing and contrasting different consumers with different with different antenna structures so what we would what we would say is consumers should be all of the all except for that five percent should be were continued to be able to receive broadcasts not our own as they do today with no change in the antenna as they do today that it shouldn't be any difference between a rooftop or a new antenna just as a stimulus response institution is nothing more stimulating the millions of people on february seventeenth two thousand and nine calling the say they no longer can get channel four and i've had it since one thousand forty nine in our household so we don't have to worry about the successful part of it we have to worry about the part that's going to cause disruption one final question hundreds of low power stations and thousands of translators will remain in analog form and just for converter boxes reportedly the so called analog pass through capability how were the two of you coordinating consumer education efforts in affect communities and are you working with retailers to ensure that appropriate boxes are stocked in stores in those communities and if you could give me a brief answer that would be very helpful we're certainly trying to work to coordinate to make sure that our message  community is communicated effectively to consumers about their concern we're taking a verity of other steps including trying to encourage healthy t v stations with a hard deadline to transition to digital working with consumers i've sent a letter to the consumer electronics association in the consumer electronics retailer cieszyn asking them to make sure they each manufacture produces at least one box that has a pass through and that each out that each retail outlet contains and sell at least one box with a pass through and we've also proposed that we try to provide some have low power pastor and send them to the web site with coordinated factsheets we also want to make sure that everyone knows that they don't all need it so we want to clarify that and work with again the education effort the joint industry education effort ok great this is going to be a big issue we have out definitely would you say it's working ok some people are asking to require all converter boxes to include a low power pastor of are you concerned that the manufacturers and retailers suddenly might drop out of the program altogether if we change the requirements  you know you're talking about a low power issue and i guess a lot of us are wondering what all the facts are i believe you have already started providing some data needs to be cross reference staff tells me before we can take action can you  obviously work with the committee particular our staff to create a list of all low power stations and their location breaking out those that are class or translators those that will be digital by february seventeenth two thousand and nine whether they are an affiliate of one of the top four networks whether all the stations in their market are analog low power and how many people are actually watching them i say this an overlay because as i talked to secretary baker that there is a perception that this low power to include a low power passthrough is going to create some kind of staff to provide any information you and of needing the end that we that we have to have available i can i think we can we've already tried to provide some of those numbers and give you a brief overview if you'd like and the only the only problem the only issue that i see with any of the requests you've made is  nielsen doesn't actually can keep track of the number of people that are watching the low power television stations they focus on the full power television station so we may not be able to get you will provide you whatever we can and we can obtain can you provide you a list of all the low power states and their locations absolutely no problem yes breaking out those that are class or translators can you provide that us no problem those that will be digital by february seventeenth two thousand to all the information we have about anybody who will be digital absolutely whether they whether they are one of the top four networks can you provide that yes and whether all the stations in their market are analogue low power and how many people as and when you say you can provide that last one will provide whatever we can gather but i but i'm not going to be able to provide that thank you mr chairman the gentleman's time has expired chair recognizes the gentleman from michigan  the amazing echo star one hundred seventy d m a's you testified at this committee that it would be a win for consumers perspective and policy perspective later this month in the commission to approve liberty liberties media's request acquire news corp stake and direct t v with all the similar pledge of working to provide universal local local why not first let me say i do continue to think it would end up being a win and i think that they form a consumer perspective and i and i suppose we're trying to make sure that we move forward i think you asked it in your opening statement to have the commission work with congress to have a deadline that we would ensure that all of going to local actually occurs and i went back after the last hearing and looked at the commitment that was made in two thousand and four and it was a commitment that was made not to deliver all of those local to local using satellite but to use a hybrid system in which they delivered local into local in some communities via satellite and some using it over the air signal that would be can that would be obtained in that integrated in and that didn't and that has worked either well no but we have required actually we do require they had committed to that by two thousand and eight in two thousand and four and we are requiring them again in this order that that i circulated the commissioners they do have to integrate all of those in all two hundred ten by the end of this year but but you know how many of the integrated thus far you have ten making and we're making it the merger goes through they're still required to we're not eliminating that obligation have been required to but i don't want to realistically are they going to get it done in order goes a they are saying that this they'll be able to roll that out offer that to consumers in all two hundred ten markets this year u sing this integrated solution not using the satellite into into satellite solution which is an imperfect solution to ai which a but that is what do you live from which you can just spend just so that he knows there are three minutes left to vote on the michigan with the next thirty seconds on the clock because of the disruptive time at which we suspended the hearing and the gentleman is recognized once again for that purpose thank you mr president thank you for your courtesy print that they are offering to do which is what they had committed to do in two thousand and four they are saying they will have done by rocktober of this year and i'm telling you the hybrid system won't work because topography of some areas in minnesota northern michigan so that still doesn't solve our problem why not just put a hard date and say ok by february seventeenth two thousand we go direct t v let's make sure we have all local local and all the d m a the reason why is because actually because congress made the decision to require instead of requiring all brought all the satellite operators to congress in chevron that did not say they had to be done we encourage it to be done we had hoped the f c c would follow through so i'm urging the f c c to do it so we introduce legislation say by a local local must be completed by two every ninety two thousand and nine would you be supportive of that i would i mean i've been very supportive of karajan every context and so i would i and i would continue to say that that think that's a good thing and would be supportive of us and be happy to work with you on it so why don't you  just do it as part of in this merger here required be done if you're looking at this merger later today we're actually out of i i believe that the fact that congress was very specific in saying that the satellite operators didn't have to do what they would into a market by market they did it for one station of market everywhere but that they did not require it to be done nationally and so i think that them coming forward saying that they would they would do a take now that other technology is probably the extent to which that would that i think is reflective of what i understood congress intention agreement you're looking at later this month i think that what what is important is whenever they whenever if we require to that that way it would take away the capacity to provide the carriage for other signals because of the more limited nature of their capacity while that's the argument but as the c ever inquired on a feasibility study or looked at the cost they would do to implement a local to local what is the cost and we hear that excuse all the time but yet we see new channels coming on all oh no i would i was saying is i agree i think it's probably a higher priority to carry the broadcast signals i support that i was meaning that i deferred to congress's decision that they weren't going to require that of a satellite operators unlike the cable operators and so it was out of that deference that i had but i was concerned about the whether we should do that but i support it and would support the legislation if that was introduced and i think that i would so they can finish constructing their digital facilities seems to me that in terms of media should be focusing its attention on that rather than other t v related items would you be able to send a list of all the pending unplanned media track and share the coupon requests and redemption rate help the manufacturers and retailers allocate their resources in proportion to levels of demand across the country absolutely  has designed a system that will let tronic like track as we've already shared with the retailers where the applications down to the zip code where that they have been asked for we will also give that information but the congress as well as to the retailers as to where these great and i know that you recently received a letter from the chairman dingell and others asking to let you get people that get back in line after their coupons expire the letter actually to do so however only if  it won't cause us to run out of coupons but my sense is that we're going to have to wait a couple of months to see if the redemption and the expiration rage occur before we'll know whether in fact there's going to be a risk i'm not necessarily against that at all but i think that we're going to need to see some data before we get there i think as we move from the theoretical design of this program to when it's more real and we have real people and real constituents we start to get a little bit more sympathetic and i think that this is one of those things that we can be very sympathetic on i do think that we need to wait and see the redemption rates but i have gone ahead and asked i b m to price out what the cost of this would be what would the cost of the application feilding another application making another card mailing out to another constituent so we have the data as to how much it costs and so we can compare that with the redemption rates and see if there's money to do such a thing great thank you i yield back the gentlemen time has expired  more contemporary movie there will be blood what happens by the end of the day but at this point also only good humor and i think we have enough time actually five minutes to recognize one member and that would be the  congratulations on on your up position on august third last year the president you know signed the nine eleven commission implementation act into law and contained in that was a grant program for the and how the dollars are going to be distributed to chairman martin i'd like to know if you've decided if you're going to auction the advanced wireless services spectrum and if so when you plan to do so that's fallow as you well know and i think that that this option the option of the spectrum should be as soon as possible but i'd like to know where you are on that i'd also like to query  deep chasm between you and cable the manipulation of the data in the seventy seven seventy seventy proceedings and i used the word manipulation because i think the data was manipulated friendly the multicast must carry i think that that raises rates i don't know where you're coming from on that the slashing of the rates the cable can charge released access now i understand that people can fall on either side of that issue but i think that that's on the list as well the eradication of existing contracts with the multi dwelling unit you're the continued pressure to implement our card which i think raises rates and there's a lot that seems to drive you on that i don't i don't see broad support for that but you seem to stay on it and then the thirty percent  cap i'm not happy with the that's one of them but i don't know whether i disagree with you on that or not so but that is a long way and i think that the commission really needs to be working better with with cable i think that there are consumers hurt in some of these this these decisions but i don't want the decisions to just stand on their own i mean it's a it's a long list and i think it's the nine one program has finally been funded we have had a joint program office with mit so now for i think over a year and we have just received a address won't work program i'm happy to share with you and your staff was that means that means we have how you're going to distribute the funding and so we're working with it can't raise rates at least access decreasing rates released access can't again raise rates we are decreasing the rates for least excess on the apartment building issue in the franchise reform i continue to believe everyone deserves of the benefits of competition not just people that don't live in apartments  an overwhelming number of minorities in this country more minorities live in apartment buildings and then the others and i think they deserve the benefits they can already are hurt by your your overall media consolidation i overall when you talk about the list i think this is the reason why the list if i can have this entered into the record mr chairman i would appreciate it what we've seen is a dramatic increase in of cable rates in every compared to every other sector the commission regulates cable rates have dramatically increased in  hundred six when cable when the telecommunications act was passed were twenty two dollars a month for expanded basic state or over fifty dollars a month the reason why i'm concerned about cable is because i believe to moore's are concerned about pay cable eighty percent of consumers say they think they're paying too much and i believe that we need to do something about the every board is only three minutes left on the roll call on the floor to answer on the option we've been very busy with the seven hundred megahertz also as soon as we finish that i plan to move forward chairman again the committee will stand in recess and we will reconvene another six to ten minutes gentleman from illinois famous chairman i finally got lucky for a change so let me go with secretary baker according to nielsen only eleven point seven percent of households representing thirteen million homes rely exclusively only when we've had these hearings what i've always focused on is the the amount of consumers out there and i'm focused on how many have cable how many have satellite t v trying to address martin i know there's been an overwhelming interest in the converter box coupons since the public was able to start requesting them over four point three million converter box coupons will be mailed out starting next week if the public has requested such an overwhelming number of coupons over a year before the transition date doesn't demonstrate that the consumer education plan is working and a follow up question how should consumer education change as we get closer  february seventeenth two thousand and nine will go first what chairman martin certainly think that's evidence of the education campaigns beginning to work and i think the most important thing that we need to recognize is some of the recent surveys have been done about consumers consumers union that as more and more people become aware of the transition or focus needs to change to not only just saying to the transition is coming but what they need to do to prepare for it and more and more the focus on what actions they need to take as opposed to just the transitions come due i think the fact that we had such a large demand the first week means that the consumer education campaign is working the spike really is it goes up the first week and then kind of levels off i think we're at an average of sixty one thousand coupons now a day being asked for i think that will have spikes will probably have a spike at the year out as we have all this you know great interest in a year out in the events of the year out of different spikes throughout the summer i think we're looking for spikes so that we can get the consumer education campaign out there particularly to the elderly the disabled the rural the low income and the minorities i also think that will be more telling is not the demand for the coupons but how they are redeemed and i think that we'll start seeing those obviously since we're milling the coupons out starting next week we'll start seeing redemption rates shortly and we'll see what the redemption rate is on the coupons and that will be more telling great and since i have you here chairman martin let me just focus on industry recommendations for simple imitation you have raised questions about the industry's detailed recommendations expected with respect to the learning geographic granularity that's tough i use you don't try to go into multi syllable granularity is one of the toughest ones i've had to do used today but since the involved parties work to provide a consensus set of recommendations that can be implemented broadly across commercial networks can you speak to what concerns you may have as you know congress worked its will and permitted carrier participation be voluntary and in that for the f c c rules to be consensus driven we obviously want carriers are participating or consumers will have access to the alerts do you worry that your process underway may prove a disincentive for carriers to participate and thus reduce the availability of alerts to consumers as outlined in the recommendations presented by the warner acted by his or committee no i mean i think that the process has actually been very contested conducive of all of the recommendations made by the by the joint committee that was to discuss that contain both consumer interests public safety interests and the wireless industries interests there was only one concern that i raised on the recommendation and it was on the geographic area i didn't think that we should require anything smaller in terms of geographic area but i did i was contacted by several public safety agencies and by the by the mayor of new york about concerns that if we require the geographic area that was being discussed would not be conducive to extremely dense urban areas like new york city and trying to find a way that we would make sure that the residents of new york were also able to get the benefits of any warning and try to either get some of the industry players to participate in and on a smaller geographic area or to try to make sure that that we allowed individual public safety entities and or local communities to come forward and say we need it on a smaller area because it's so densely populated  i think was important i'm still trying to work with the industry on trying to figure out a way to voluntarily try to address this issue and obviously i'm a very sensitive to what concerns the congress members may have about about this one focus i think that some congress members have raised a concern with me about that about this but some of their offices have but i think more of them are more comfortable with it now and so we'll continue to end up going forward and work on this but i think it is a voluntary program that we need to be very sensitive to all the issues that are raised by by the whole by the whole organization and as i said except for certain and getting the spectrum freed up for the first line responders to something that a lot of us have worked very diligently to the last thing we want mr chairman is a you know another major catastrophe for where we have people not able to communicate with each other the public broadcasters are on the hill today and the ones i've talked to been very strongly in support of the date certain based upon their plans and procedures and what they're trying to do and i hope we i had the opportunity to visit whitehaven in the united kingdom that is the community where the digital television transition was completed in the u k and i was very interested to learn about that experience it was a good experience for them they had no surprises on the day of the transition every was aware of it they had taken the steps to prepare themselves that of course is the goal we hope to achieve in the u they did however encounter issues that i don't think we've given much consideration to with regard to our transition and i would welcome your thoughts about these issues there were two in particular replaced now in putting together a program for converter boxes and the subsidy program for that we really thought that would be the only hardware need we were not aware that possibly doran's would also have to be replaced and i don't know how many that will be but there are about seventy million analog in the us that are over the air dependent if you took ten percent of that figure we'd be talking about seven million homes it probably won't be that but that's the outer edge of the potential problem so my first question to you and i have a second one and i'll just have you answer both at once my first question to you as well thought of we given to this and how are we going to address that concern when it arises here in the u s going to have to be a cost that the t v viewer has to bear or alternately should we consider legislation in order to provide the funding necessary to accommodate this just as we've accommodated the need for converter boxes now the second challenge was this they found that a very large percentage of the people had to have technical assistance they got their converter boxes but they didn't know how to install them they had a need to replace outdoor antennas and some places but didn't know how to replace them or even really what the problem was they might have had their converter box properly installed but still couldn't get a signal their problem was that their outdoor antenna wasn't adequate but they really had no way to know what the problem was in the u k their program actually financed a broad range of tropical systems and people  employed through this program were made available to help with the converter box installation at the home and to assess other technical difficulties including possibly the need to resort to replace an outdoor antenna now we do not have as i understand our program a technical assistance component i guess we're thinking that the retail store that sells a converter box for fifty dollars or sixty dollars is going to provide that advice somehow i don't have confidence that's really going to work i don't think that store wal mart perhaps is going to have an ongoing interest in perhaps sending somebody to the person's home in order to solve these problems and so i'm wondering if we don't need to rethink our program in light of also providing some financing for technical assistance so i have a couple of other questions but those are the two main ones that i just welcome your advice about to what extent we've thought about this and  how we might meet these needs mr martin in response to the first question you've got about the replacement of outdoor antennas i think that our engineers are would say because of the what they call the cliff effect  of digital broadcasting in which the people that are able to get it receive a better picture but those that are on the edges there will be a point in which you used to be able to get a not a very good picture or snowy picture outside of the contours of the where the broadcaster supposed to be operating but that you would no  were saying and that was what i was reference earlier in response to a question from chairman markey so i think you're right and whether congress decides to provide any additional support for that or not i obviously would leave up to congress to decide about the use of its resources but we do estimate that there will be small but about five percent of those people using outdoor antennas would be what we would estimate not as high as ten percent of the second question about the technical assistance i would say obviously there are there's already some response in the marketplace to these kinds of issues  best buy for example you know has their their geek squad that comes out and we were at best buy last week for an event and they offer technical assistance in setting up any of the products that that you can purchase there but we have also with  two some of the concerns have been raised by these technical assistance that have contacted some groups and some organizations that target particular audi's of particular groups that i think might need a technical assistance like the elderly or the disabled we've been in contact with with meals on wheels and i've asked them for example to distribute information about the upcoming transition one of the concerns they raised initially they said yes and they raised a concern that they then thought they would be asked to participate and in do provide that technical assistance if they start telling people about the transition so we've actually gone back to them and said well you know that that would be positive not negative how much they said they would need resources and we said well how much would you need to be able to participate and we've gotten some estimates on that i probably should share that privately with folks but they said that they would do the potentially they would be willing to help dissipate and that would be targeting the kind of audiences that i think consumers might be most in need of assistance and that would be one of the things that does suman congress provides us additional resources that we've asked for this year our budget that  i've asked my staff to take into account to try to provide for the ability to to try to target some of these some of these consumers who we know she will be needing some assistance are you asking for the resources that your evaluation suggests would be necessary in order to provide that technical assistance the only organization like that i've been able to identify that could provide that directly would be the kind of and i said meals on wheels which we talk well but they would need some funding to do it but how are you going to be asking us to provide the funding i've  discussed we have we've asked for additional appropriations this year of twenty million dollars and i've talked to my staff about making sure we close the estimates for that program in a in our estimate of what we would do with that twenty million dollars well the twenty million dollars leads me to the second question and ms baker i don't mean to exclude you my time is running out however and that is that in the united kingdom about one point two billion dollars in total was made available for their assistance program and their public education they've got one fifth of the population of the united states until now we've allocated five million for our public education campaign just splitting their total appropriation and have let's say that five hundred million went to public education there  one percent of that here twenty million doesn't really fill the gap very well i remain deeply concerned that we still have not allocated enough for that and now you're suggesting part of that twenty million might even get diverted into a health scheme of some sort for technical assistance perhaps so mr chairman my time is up let me just leave the thought that i think we need to do something on this subject we are clearly going to need resources beyond the twenty million that has been requested and i hope that we can respond to that and do so so we can prevent serious problems from occurring gentleman's time has expired the chair recognizes the gentleman from texas the ranking member of the full committee mr barton thank you m chairman i am a little bit like cause i had to go use a hotline to call for my coupons i want to make sure that there there was a shortage you know since they're going to start mailing i'm out next week so i had to do that little  i'm always tempted when we have our chairman of the f c c to ask a totally extraneous issue but i won't do that today on the good side it is it looks to me like to keep on program is moving along pretty  well over four million have been requested we're going to start mailing them out next week are not you but the agency that's responsible for it do you see any problems in the coupon program as it currently exists and i and i think that we were moving forward and a positive way on that and i think that as i said before it seems like there's a lot of consumers who are aware of the transition we need to target our message to make sure we're telling them what they need to do but with seems like we're on track this baker said that i'm very happy with the retailers that are participating as we roll this out we're going to be tracking very carefully as the coupons go out what the redemption is they'll be more retailers who are actually participating we've certified a bunch more than those are participating participating means they have boxes on the shelves will be more and more in the coming weeks they'll be more boxes with more features that are coming in a week so i think things look good we'll be monitoring it closely and sharing that information with your staff very good chairman on the on the d block auction part of the reason we're doing the deed t v transition is to clear up the spectrum so it can be used for other purposes and one of the real supposed stars in the auction was supposed to be the sector is not really comfortable proposing a bid if you don't make the reserve price and it doesn't appear that you're going to what's the commission's  at the urging in the request of public safety is try to resolve the problems they have on in our offer ability trying to find a way that the low police and local fire department are going to be able to communicate using an action ration of wireless services and i think that we need to continue to end up having their concerns at the forefront of these issues going forward but obviously the encumbrances and the expectations that they work with public safety if no one ends up bidding on that on that piece of spectrum or we're too great and we commission will have to continue to go back and re evaluate what we should put in place to try to resolve these public safety concerns and i think that i mean i'm pleased that the rest of the auction all went forward and we were able to meet the reserve price and all the other pieces i think that there were concerns that were raised about some of those encumbrances in terms of build out or open openness on the c block all of those have been met and we've been able to successfully raise despite the fact that the d block has not met their reserve price successfully raised significantly more revenue than anyone had anticipated almost twice  and more revenue than we've ever raised in the ocean the past for even less spectrum that we've walked in off in the past so i think in general it's been very successful but i do recognize that the concerns the public safety raised seem like that they are too great for at this point anybody be willing to put in place a bid that would be able to work with public safety i would hope that someone would come forward and be willing to work with public safety but no one is that we're going have to go back to the drawing board and consider how to i'm going to encourage chairman markey and chairman angled to squeeze in a hearing outside of the d t v transition on that issue because that spectrum is valuable and b is very important to the for the public safety and first responders and we need to figure out a way to get it so so that in a way that meets the meets the goals of the legislation that we all supported and with that mr chairman i yield back thank you for your purse and i thank the gentleman and i would say to the gentleman that when this auction is completed assuming that the d block does not have any our intention is to have a hearing and then to do a top to bottom of valuation  that the proposal to do that i have put forth would say that they have to meet the same interference standards that are required now of anyone else who wants a full power station there could be no interference th cable i would say that it not sure what it would end up having on the implications for cable and or satellite i can say that i think that some of those cable satellite companies carry low power more cable doesn't satellite satellite doesn't even carry all the full power stations so i think it would be more of a problem on satellite but these are matters of concern to the committee and i would appreciate it  a problem which i think it is very liable to do now mr chairman martin you have requested twenty million dollars for consumer education in the two thousand and nine  we do have some tentative plans on how we would end up spending the money in terms of additional p s a that would be that would be broadcasting created additional information that would be distributed and we've also been trying to work we just announced using the utilizing the resources that were just provided to us at the end of last year we just announced the contracting with the public relations firm ketchum who will help us put together the plan not only for the money that congress has already provided to us but how we would best utilize that money going forward but we do have tentative plan that i can provide in my letter to this matter would you please give us in that response as full an answer as you can as to as to the plans with regard to spending that money question from i think that you have to put in context this money alone would not be enough but i have put in context with the education efforts that are ongoing both by about the converter box program and the industry both the broadcasters and the cable operator the cable operators and the n at this point we are very encouraged with the consumer education program and we are not requesting any furthe as that issue of technology pertains to the d t b transition is it your opinion that continued testing of these devices by the f c c will interfere with the d t the transition i don't think any testing of know whether or not the devices will demonstrate that they can operate or not operate we'll have to wait and see the testing is ongoing now the engineers in the labs are doing it it's open so that any broadcaster and or any technology company can come watch but the testing alone interfere the question is whether the devices themselves would and will want to wait and see and that's the purpose of the testing that's that's right that's right and if you were to issue a room making allowing these devices to be used is it true that these devices could not even come to the marketplace until after the d t the transition date has passed and therefore could not interfere with d t v transition at this point i think practically that's correct  originally i had committed to congress that we would go based on the testing of the devices we had already received we would try to put them in place and allow for them to come into the marketplace by the end of this year because it's the first round of testing was not successful to show that it wouldn't interfere with we asked for additional devices and were ongoing testing now i think practically that's the case and of course if the f c c determines that these devices can operate without interference do you see that this is a new marketplace from which consumers would benefit  announcement that you have introduced the marquis pickering bill and i'm hoping that we're going to have a full discussion a good faith debate in it because of course you know i have some concerns and i am going to as chairman martin for his assistance to this committee that all the members fully understand the implications with the need for the legislation again i really mean this in good faith that we understand what the internet really represents and what it is the difference between a network and i s p content aggregators search engines operate in software applicators applications device manufacturers we also i think need a good education on delivery systems whether it's going to be copper coaxial fiber optic power line and of course wireless i think we need to understand the relationships among all of the different participants in providing access to the internet because i think we all have the same goal at the end of the day and that is to make sure that we have a robust build out maintenance and improvement of our broadband capacity so when is broadband capacity management legitimate or illegitimate appropriate or inappropriate necessary and sometimes unnecessary so i'm hoping in the search for truth that we end up evaluating and analyzing again the need and of course the implications for the proposed legislation i'm going to answer a question sort of understand what's going on starting january first two thousand was when the requests for coupons took place it's going to in on march thirty first two thousand and nine they'll be mailed on february seventeenth in about four days or so right start mailing you're going to start mailing them in about four days and they'll be able to be redeemed obviously and there's going to be an expiration date now when i ask you about the expiration date my concern is that i think where is much is is we prepared for it and work for it and so on that you're still going to have a tremendous demand after february seventeenth two thousand and nine when the television sets go dark do you anticipate at that point a tremendous spike in the demand in your own going to have a window of about ninety days i guess or less bottom month and a half i'm sorry from the time that the coupons will no longer be available to you and a demand at that point when we reach a crisis people obviously are made aware because they can't watch their television sets and if you do anticipate a tremendous demand how does the expiration of the group pounds play into that but more so do you have a contingency plan in case will outpace the resources that are available to you well first of all the way coupon program is set up so we started accepting coupons on january first two thousand and eight we've been testing our systems to make sure that they work and we thought clarity was important so we set the date of february seventeenth to start mailing out coupons or to start the processing of the coupons seventeenth is a sunday that's probably why we're not having this hearing on february seventeenth so the first batch of coupons will go out that week we're going to monitor it carefully we're going to send out probably not not as many as we could those first weeks so that we can make sure the systems are up and running i think you are right as we as we work through this as there are more coupons out there as there are more boxes and manufacturers particularly as we get towards the end of this program  seventeenth two thousand and midnight when all full full power broadcasting is turned off and people go on february eighteenth every nineteenth maybe every twenty seconds because they don't watch much t v and i turn on their television and it doesn't work i think that we will see a spike there i think we'll see we had always anticipated the largest number of coupon recipient applications would be towards the end of the year the christmas season and also in the january february range of next year that we were able to allow  except in coupons until march thirty first two thousand and nine so there's a window there of about a month and a half for people who turn on their television and it doesn't work that they can still apply for a coupon is far as the ninety day of the ninety day expiration goes i think i've mentioned that we're interested in looking into that after all of the coupons have been after we see the redemption rate on the coupons we'll be getting back to you in congress and consulting with you as you know what the redemption rate is and how much it would cost to put people back in the line at the end of the line when these coupons are sent out in this first wave which i know is almost like a test wave of coupons then we'll actually know how it's really working with the retailers and so it's my understanding you have about thirty thirty four different converter boxes that have been approved for that would have the analog analog pass through feature is that correct yes there's thirty seven point four of them which have the analog and will be guess when we have our next year and you'll be reporting the results of this initial mailing of the coupons and the redemption r and i think we'll start hearing maybe from our constituents as to again the application the installation the problem with that i do want to point one thing out that i think is very important as you go through your list of qualified or certified retailers in the senate telling your area that they're not listed on here because their appeal was actually granted and that's going to be which is a very prominent prominent grocery store chain in all of south texas a huge endeavor but i assure you that you will have more consumers in those impacted neighborhoods that feel more comfortable and will be obviously visiting the store much more so than many of the large electronic outlets which i preach their contribution my last question i have two minutes and i'm just the coupons are going to be for forty dollars i think your testimony was that the converter boxes are going to be selling anywhere from fifty to seventy dollars seventy dollars actually at the consumer electronics show one of the the testing of the boxes we want to make sure the boxes work when they plug them and so we've had in conjunction with the f c c labs we've been testing these boxes to make sure that they work there are closed captioning requirements their parental control requirements are written into the statute we want to make sure those communities was set up to provide them a reimbursement i'm concerned about the timing of that reimbursement this isn't your issue it's our issue because we wrote timelines but now in retrospect looks to me like there's a problem in a disconnect there actually go digital and i think that was the intention all right thank you that's good to know that chairman martin couple of things first as an old broadcaster i'm now out of business i'm concerned about your rule making related to mandating the broadcasters have to air public service so called public service announcements on a fairly regimented schedule and the effect that can have i don't know that you've ever done that before the f ever taken this step before you know there's never been another step that we've taken to mandate these kind of public service announcements and i seems a rather slippery slope frankly to me i think that it was it reflected the gravity and the concern that many people had to make sure the broadcasters were doing all they could to educate consumers to remark in german tingled sent us letters last summer encouraging us to open a rule making and consider that requirement to make sure that broadcasters and all the industries the commission regulates were taking all the steps they could inform consumers as i said in my opening statement the broadcasters have recently filed an alternative plan where they would have some more flexibility to make some voluntary commitment of what they would end up doing as a safe harbor potentially so the commission is currently evaluating that and i hope to the commission will act on that so i hope you'll take their voluntary effort into consideration let me move on to a different topic and that is a timing issue having been not in the t v business but the radio business i know during certain times of the year it's easy to send engineers up and down your tower and other times it's not and at certain times you can't push to a certain date and have an engineer available to every station necessarily a lot of these are consulting engineers to get brought in given that the statute calls for a specific one day change do you anticipate any problems with stations being able to accommodate that change on a given day in the winter but what what we do anticipate and that will require as you said some of the broadcasters to begin to put to work people earlier in the year to make sure that they're capable of making that change and that may require some temporary disruptions of service and one of the things that the commission did in the order we adopted at the end of last year was put in place that kind of flexibility for the broadcasters in which we allow them to come forward and say that i can only schedule a construction crew on a certain date prior to that date so i need to be able to move my antenna at that time so i need to have flexibility so you've got that build into your we've got  streamline process approval for any kind of flexibility is needed to make sure that they can make that transition on a day and i think that's important for the committee and for the consumers to know that in some markets the date may actually be different than february seventeenth that's right and one of the one of the aspects of providing them that flexibility is we said that they would have to they would have to inform in those markets to make sure that viewers understood that they could have this implication even at times it could be a temporary changes they're going through the construction but at times it could be more right now there are communities that are going to be disadvantaged able to pinpoint where the areas are in the u s do we have any of that data we are able to tell us where the low power stations are yes absolutely that your district in particular is higher seventeen point five percent over the air viewer so i do think it's particularly important for education you're right we only have four certified boxes at this point in our final rule we encourage the permissive feature of the analog pass through i sent out a letter to all of the manufacturers and ask them again to consider this important audience in response we have visited with several of the major manufacturers and we have notices  intent from more than half a dozen or more boxes that will be analog pass through so i think there will be sufficient boxes on the market to serve these markets that need these boxes are you also willing to work with retailers along the us mexican border because  i'm up in los angeles but obviously in texas another important state that's where i think we're really not seeing a lot of involvement with the retail industry there and i would ask what outreach is happening if you could give us that information and would encourage you to do that be glad to do it and then by next question is for both of you can the f c c or n t i a require appropriate labeling for an analog pass through technology in the form of information like a sticker that could be placed on the product one of the questions or concerns i have is that so many people in our communities don't even know what that means and i think that it can be very misleading in terms of what they have to purchase or what they should be purchasing and i think we have to do a better job at providing not just relying on the retailers to give that information but having some something that certified from  a can do that is that something that we can maybe plan on we do not have the labeling authority originally we thought that might be we thought it might be a bad idea just because we thought we might have all sorts of encourage the both manufacturers of the boxes and the retailers to be identifying the boxes that have the pastor was going to be important we have encouraged both manufacturers to try to put this capability all their boxes but certainly in some of them and i've encouraged the retailers to make sure that they that and just going back to concerns that members of the committee have had about giving information publicly and in the broadcasters providing p s a as to give information to our communities i think that's great however just in the in the last two months cycle i've been getting a lot of phone calls in my office and many spanish speakers are not fully aware of what this needs congresswomen do i have to buy a converter box i have cable do i do i need to do this i think there still has to be a lot more clarification in detail so it isn't just enough to say that you know in february two thousand and nine this is what's going to happen to you people are getting worried and scared and they're calling our offices members are picking that up but i certainly am especially with the senior community a spanish language senior community so i think there still has to be testing that goes on out there about what and how we phrase these words and technology so many people still are thinking what do i need to purchase to make sure that we don't we don't go black that we're not that we're out and i really think that we have a responsibility and maybe we do need to beef up your budgets to do that and i'd like to just get a response i think that you're i think you're right it's a very important outreach  ladies and gentlemen thank you so much i apologize for the extended break there were several unanticipated roll calls we continue to have a highly contentious atmosphere out on the house floor here however we are working together in harmony to find a solution to the problems which are raised by the transition from analog to digital television by february seventeenth of two thousand and nine and we have for our second panel very very distinguished group of people who reflect just about every perspective that needs to be heard from  in the resolution of the remaining issues we're going to begin and i'm going to ask each of you to keep your opening statement to five minutes no more than five minutes  recognize that ron bruno who is the president of the community broadcasters association mike doyle who is the congressman from western pennsylvania on this subcommittee cannot be here today to discuss how the digital converter box program and the transition generally will affect our industry i applaud and appreciate your opening remarks mr chairman and mr chairman and chairman dangles comments as well as the other ladies and gentlemen that have commented positively on our issue and seem to understand it more than ten years ago congress and the f c c gave full power stations second channels on which to operate their digital stations low power stations were not given a second chance our industry has been told for the last ten years that we would get digital channel assignments when all the full power stations were quote taken care of only six months ago lp t v stations started to get their digital channels granted to date only thirty five percent of lp t v stations have been granted a digital station a second channel to put this into perspective there are five hundred sixty seven class two thousand two hundred twenty seven low power stations and four thousand four hundred eighteen translators that will not be making the transition in february to be clear that eighty percent of the stations in the country will continue to be broadcasting in analog after february our industry was under the impression that adequate time would be provided for our stations to make the transition once our second channels were received unfortunately the digital converter box program currently in use funded by the congressional mandate therefore that have been certified by the manufacturer do not have an analog tuner and as we heard today only four of thirty seven certified boxes even pass through  out of business mr chairman with the extinction of class station goes the only mandated locally produced programming on television the c b a believes that the manner in which implemented this program is in violation of the long stan ding requirements mandated in the all channel receiver act and while we have filed a petition of declaratory ruling to this effect that the we indeed may have no choice but to take our case to the court we remain cautiously optimistic that and digital tuner we also request that the ninety day expiration date on the coupon is overly burdensome to our consumers and should be changed to one hundred eighty days in stores where boxes with analog and digital tuners are not available consumers should be allowed to use coupons for other devices that have analog and digital tuners and because our industry is being effectively forced into the transition significantly faster than anticipated and much faster than the full power in closing mr chairman i just want to say that we've had for three years our proposal here for a very limited class a muskerry where we would convert to digital on channel and forgo or analog channels and that that is not going anywhere and i look of the american express card because he never leaves home without it in the narrowest sense the data points that he used were accurate but uses to which they were put or false and deceptive and rather than take time now with your permission mr chairman i'll send you a letter and explain why on the digital transition first let me just compliment all my colleagues in the industry and at the f c c n t i a for working together so well i think that's actually been a real success story i think the issues that mr bruno raises is illegitimate one this morning i received i'm sure some of my colleagues did a letter from chairman martin addressed to  surging us to work in voluntary ways to address to ensure that low powered stations are still seen by their viewers after the transition and as regards cable what was put in the letter were voluntary ideas that i wouldn't quibble with we in fact carry hundreds of low power stations voluntarily today will do so in the future i'm certainly happy to work with that community to see if we can do even more of that and we're certainly supportive of making sure the aloe pass through feature is in as many boxes as possible and participating in the education campaign for consumers so they know about them know where they can get them and actually get them  what what is a little dismaying is that both and in chairman martin's testimony and in this letter there was no mention of an item that had been reported as circulating at the f c c which would go farther and actually inject muskerry for stations into this process and i'm troubled by it in two respects one just process once again there's an item that no one's ever seen so far as i can tell no one actually asked for it and so i don't know exactly what's in it  but number two as you know mr chairman you and others commissioner adelstein and others on the commission urged the cable industry several years ago to reach a deal a voluntary agreement with the public broadcasting stations to help them with their business plans after the after the digital transition and we did this committee and i testified before you and made this commitment asked us to step up and engage in a consumer education campaign which we launched last year and we took many of the ideas if not all of the ideas that you suggested as part of that campaign and this committee and we worked with you and your staff and we appreciate it urged us even though the legislation didn't cross the finish line in two thousand and five because it was put in reconciliation to voluntarily figure out a plan to make the transition seamless for our customers and so working with you we came up with a three year dual carriage on which has now been incorporated into an f c c rule making we're happy to do all of that but we are now or a year out and i would suggest mr chairman in her to use your good offices to send a message to the f c c that this is the time for all of us to be working together to solve real problems and not raise red herrings that are probably just going to gender more confusion and greater possibility of litigation markey and ranking member stearns thank you for inviting me to testify on behalf of the national association of broadcasters on our number one television priority a successful digital television transition i would like to make four points one and maybe aggressively constructed a comprehensive and empirically based t v education effort broadcasters are committed to ensuring that no viewer anywhere is left uninformed after all over the air viewers are  lifeblood constructing our campaign we have turned to experts in advertising marketing and consumer research to develop a program designed to reach every corner of america and to determine the best way to educate consumers particularly those most impacted such as senior citizens and minority and rural populations this explains why every broadcast network in nearly fifteen hundred television stations nationwide have chosen to participate in any massive multi faceted multi platform campaign and he is committed to a comprehensive program of the t v action spot thirty minute education programs informational messages through crawl snipes and or new stickers and other features such as a one hundred a count down all told the value of this campaign is estimated at more than one billion dollars and will generate one hundred thirty two billion audience impressions we anticipate each house will either here  disciplined and focused campaign the first phase launched last fall drove the fact that the transition was happening results of our january survey show that consumer awareness has jumped dramatically to seventy nine percent up from thirty eight percent just one year ago we anticipate continued forward momentum the second phase of our effort will be to focus on the converter box coupon program for new action spots and we would like to take the opportunity to show one now please play the spot than six hundred stops at local events today the trek or in old missouri in orlando florida retailer outreach we are teaming up with wal mart and other retailers to air the d t b action spot their in store channels to educate shoppers to take action community outreach and a b s partnered with a variety of organizations including the leadership conference on civil rights the national black church initiative and one of his yawn to name just a few to amplify our outreach efforts and finally point fo we must continue to build on our public private partnership clearly this is not a project broadcasters can tackle alone from the beginning we knew this effort would require everyone's cooperation and involvement d t b coalition a broad base a group of two hundred seven organizations including the f c c and n t i a is taking the lead to ensure a smooth transition we look forward to working with all of our partners including cable electronics manufacturers retailers community broadcasters consumer advocates and the government as we go forward the upcoming transition is historic event for america crystal clear pictures phenomenal sound more programs and services and it is free i pledge that any b and r broadcasters will do all we can to make the switch successful we welcome the committee's input we thank you for your leadership thank you for inviting me here today and i'm happy to answer any questions but thank you very much our next witness chris murray senior counsel for the consumers union we welcome you today sir and whenever you're ready please begin thanks again for having the chairman going to that microphone just up a little bit closer and ranking member stearns i appreciate your attention sitting through a long hearing today so february seventeenth is more than just paris hiltons birthday we've learned today is the day at which in mr barton's district more than a half a million households without some sort of intervention or education between now and then those t v s will go blank that's nearly one in four households in his district in mr green's district we've got nearly half a million households about twenty three percent in the los angeles d m a we've got nearly a million over the air households it's my firm hope that the d t b transition is going to go absolutely swimmingly but it's my job to worry and today i'm here to express the fear that a few consumers are going to be left in the dark when the analog switch off occurs there's good news and bad news for consumers today our consumer reports national research center conducted a survey which had some troubling findings they found that three in four consumers who are aware of the transition actually have major misconceptions about it half of them nearly half of them believe that every t v needs to be digital and those consumers are probably more likely to go out and buy a new t v set not the worst thing in the world but it's important they know what the least cost migration path to digital transition is for them one in four consumers aware believe that they have to throw all their analog sets in the trash obviously this generates concern from electronics waste perspective and of those where nearly three  four don't know about n t i program for converter box coupons one finding that i actually made in my written testimony is that forty two percent of consumers who have no functioning t v set after february seventeenth two nine have no plans to do anything about it let me underscore that forty two percent nearly half of people who have no over the air signals have no plans to do anything about it yet i really hope this is going to change but right now i think there's cause for concern three hundred seventy days and counting awareness is good but it's accurate information that we actually care about we can be aware that a city bus is barreling towards us but it's a lot more important to know where that sidewalk is and to know how to sidestep that by citizens and consumers didn't ask for the digital transition and i believe you said it's the result of a federal mandate it's the result of the it's the obligation of the federal government to provide consumers good information to help them sort through some of the noise and find out what the least cost path is to switch the digital so the f c c and who are in charge of the transition have consumer education budgets of two point five million and five million respectively at the moment as he's requested an additional twenty just as a baseline all note as congressman boucher did earlier that in the u k which is has about one fifth the population of the u s they're spending four hundred million dollars educating consumers on a per capita basis that's about two hundred sixty five times more than we're presently planning to spend perhaps that's too big a number perhaps they're spending too much money perhaps we don't need to go and knock on doors like they did but should we be concerned that we're not doing these things but perhaps there will be some consumers who might not get reached i believe that's the case it's great that industry is spending a lot of money i think the campaigns that are out there are excellent i think anybody's commercials are informative but in the end everybody does have a bias somebody is always looking to sell a product or service consumer electronics industry would like you to buy a new television set cable would like you to buy cable service these are all good things but i do believe the government has an obligation to help consumers sort through the noise find that the least cost transition path i'll leave you with a couple of quick recommendations for consumers who want to get their converter boxes they should apply early don't wait to buy the box since it will expire ninety days from the date that the  coupon gets put in the mail and test your signal as early as you can because these digital signals are already out there and you don't need to wait until february seventeenth to run a test second and the f c c the agencies in charge of this program need to keep their hands on the steering wheel and as i said help consumers find at least path to make the switch i wish we had could perhaps run the clock back and find some test markets to do this you see in other countries where they've done it in the in italy in germany especially they've done this in a phase in basis they haven't done one flash but switch over and i believe that we need to find some test markets so that we know what's going to come finally community leaders can exclusively rely on government and we need to localize action plans i do think that's a place where congress can have a role in helping make their community leaders aware and helping them find some plants so again on february seventeenth we're going to make the switch to digital and unless adequate public education takes place millions of consumers will wake up that morning and find a blank t v screen and it's my hope that this will all go swimmingly and watch our next witness rom as assistant secretary baker mentioned earlier on january first the consumer support center officially open for business starting to started taking orders from consumers across the nation converter box coupons on that first day over two hundred forty nine thousand applications came in from consumers in all fifty states over four hundred seventy five thousand that on day one while initial volume was higher than expected all systems continue to handle requests and our team reacted quickly to pinpoint needed adjustments in solutions for example the volume of spanish language callers to the consumer support center exceeded our initial projections we moved quickly two fronts to accommodate this fact we added additional spanish language agents to match the volume and minimize wait times for those needing assistance in spanish we had an automated interactive voice response  program the i b m team has been able to react quickly and make adjustments to the system on anticipated developments arise the flexibility built into the system architecture for continued rapid response and adjustments going forward the next step is to begin mailing coupons to consumers that will get underway next week starting february seventh plan includes continuing to work closely with our retail partners to confirm sufficient inventory of converter boxes to meet consumer demand if necessary we can adjust the rate of coupon distribution to match as closely as possible projected retail inventory so consumers are able to purchase a converter box within the ninety day expiration period for the coupon and the one hundred eighteen days since i last came before this committee we have made great progress in recruiting the voluntary participation of large national retailers smaller local retailers over six hundred fifteen retailers representing more than sixteen thousand four hundred seventy five stores nationwide certified to participate in the program eight of the largest consumers consumer electronic retailers  recruitment efforts will continue until the march thirty first two thousand and eight and preparation for distribution to consumers we completed a pilot program and to market this pilot program conducted during january early february allowed for testing of all components of the system and their integration based on the results from the pilot program we have made some updates to the system in the process including the use of secret shoppers to validate the readiness of individual retail stores and revising language that appears on the coupon card to make for a consistent consumer although we are entering the operational phase of the coupon program we remain focused on the drive the driving force of consumer  education public affairs continue to lead the consumer education effort focused on the five communities most likely more heavily over the air broadcast than the general population they are senior and older americans the program by february twenty second in time for the initial distribution of the converter box coupons that radio shack and other brick and mortar members are prepared for the start of the program let me outline specific plan by radio mean to them among our many initiatives we have a public service announcement to dish network roughly fourteen million subscribers a part of that awareness campaign so they can try to get the word out to their friends and neighbors and family who may not have the equipment year to get the word out we made an announcement at the consumer electronics show that we would make our basic converter box available to consumers for about thirty nine that's one penny less than the forty dollars and of course we'll answer any additional questions you may have after the opening statements we have been asked for device at such a low price point and still make a good business out of it first of all we specialize in low cost equipment we also know something about how to build converter boxes will transition as our british division has gone through this process in the u k this group has helped us come up with many useful features like the passive analog signals from broadcasters who public on the digital transition and we're participating in this with respect to describe as i mentioned earlier when it comes to the population at large i think we can all agree that nothing gets the word out in america like a company with something to sell mattick version of why you need to switch over why you need a converter box i think we wouldn't have a problem at all i haven't seen those types of badge yet but i imagine if you can make a buck doing it to that ad will be made that will be the  breakthrough moment when the money go to you mr maher you you seem a little bit pessimistic about where we are right now to be honest with you you had a fairly high percentage of people who have misconceptions and confusion about if you were going to spend it was the market where would you spend that twenty million dollars in order to ensure that the most vulnerable population was given the information they need to avoid a catastrophic february seventeenth two thousand and nine well so we've got pretty good demographic information from nielsen about his effective here does seem to be disproportionately elderly disrobe fortunately latino and so that's a good place to start is find those communities find a way to reach nursing homes with some scale find a way to help people with this sort of geek squad kind of outfit that can actually i think i think part of the problem here is people may be aware of it they may even know where to get their boxes but they get home they get that box in their hands they start messing around with a television set and the little bit clueless about how to put things together so i think part of it would go into materials to actually effectively educate people about ok you've got a box in your hands how do you actually hook it up but i think really localized action plans tailored to the demographic information that we have from the excellent people at nielsen is a good place to start and as to whether or not i'm overly pessimistic i would be happy to take a wager for anyone who wants to bet on how this is going to go february seventh  would be betting on i'm going to bet on that there's going to be enough of this place consumers to light up the switchboard both the house and senate side thank you thank you for saying that  technical reasons why that wouldn't be possible and and for i b m to ensure that people who do reapply in fact can receive the coupon and as grees that there is no technical problem so i think we should begin to work towards dealing with that issue i just heard from why don't i give all the rest of you your  recommend for the government is that perhaps nationwide is warranted four months before the program comes out like i would ask the broadcasters to go digital for one day or a few hours i think that would generate a lot of awareness of what's going to happen and that would be my biggest recommendation for you i think some of the members concerns about not working are well founded so much so i think you'll see a star set up a service that we consumers can pay for will go out and set them up because we will have a lot of issues there i think those are our biggest concerns but i think that and get and get the awareness out will make consumers go to retail stores i think you'll make the moved up a lot of orders also when the program ends as far as merchants or retailers were concerned about inventory residue because we want to have them into our coverage as needed but after the program see how much more demand so as someone who cares about the program's success obviously not leaving people outside of the spirit of educating them so that they know that they need to act is a major concern from a technical and parochial view  having twenty million orders on february sixteenth of two thousand and two thousand and nine would be a concern that it all comes late summer i think you've already expressed your deep pessimistic fears for scribble down five number one if our program works the way we envision it we could run out of coupons and will need to come back to congress and the f c c in the end for additional funds number two that senior citizens who are difficult to reach we somehow won't be able to touch them and we'll miss some of them number three we'll have some isolated antenna issues although we will be announcing soon a partnership with the consumer electronics association to ensure that people understand the antennas that they will need to make the digital transition successful and we will applaud you for all their great work on that and number four technical issues heavy rain  maybe a lack of engineers to do the inversions the day before and then number five is that go over to mr jackson's recommendation that we have a one day trial for months in advance just so everyone can experience in some form what might happen four months later permanently well we actually have a thousand plus stations that are running analog and digital systems today these are stations that are going to just make the switch over and i'm not quite sure how many they are that has to do with channel select getting to a different channel but if we can minimize those through the allocation of channels that would be good and then finally number five since my cellphone is on all my business cards i'm personally worried that i will be held responsible by you and every other member sophisticated wide ranging consumer education campaign in the world is still going to miss people and it just is and obviously we need to narrow that pool as to the smallest possible  pool we can but there's going to be some disruption and second point has been made earlier even if and i think you know we're well on our way to get the coupon program to get the boxes out there even of all that work se we're basically talking about universe of people who either don't or chose not to have boxes and this is a new thing and hooking them up and someone mentioned the geek squad but somehow there's that last little step to actually making the box work that i'm not sure we're completely on top of and we'll have to think through it would you recommend for february seventeenth that on election day we all have these get out the vote operations that every somebody on his side pushing back i mean we're all we're all rowing the same direction we should be able to do it i think we ought to treat it with the seriousness with which it deserves and i think we can do it and we're off to a good start but particularly when you think through the elections coming up chairman or nightmare is not going to start on february seventeenth of zero nine or nightmare will start five days from now when those coupons are passed out i want to try to explain something as easily as i can there are three types of boxes there's the bad box the digital only when you buy that box and you bring it home and you plug it in you'll lose eighty percent of your transmission and you'll say well gee i don't get this gentleman anymore i don't get that channel so you go back to the retailer you turn it in when you plug it in through your channels and you get analog but you go to channel three typically in these boxes and then you get another room with the box and now you have to flick around and try to your digital channels on channel hundred twelve television stations mr chairman we need help help is on the way my time has expired and i will recognize the ranking member for as much time as he makes tha mr chairman mr bono i understand what you're saying but i think i'd let me just ask mr harrison mr jackson don't you are using over the air antenna have several options regarding how to continue watching analog low power stations and do you think manufacturers retailers who simply respond to the demands that they were talking about well we have a couple of conflicts here first of all one of the things they talked about is that we don't have the feature that we'd like to understand the rules to be coupon eligible prohibit us from adding that functionality if we added that functionality it would not pass  passed through you pick up your t v remote you would have to do that and chalo up or down to get those channels but we've tried to make it so that they can be able to participate and not get left behind the sheriff anything you want  simple just like cooking a toaster so it's created this impression that when they get this box it can be very difficult for them to figure out how to do that most people understand that to just put the box between the antenna and the television set just in a line that's think do you think there's also a consumer reports we've actually spent a lot of time trying to figure out how can we provide real information not just at the high level but how can you actually get into the back of your television set and hook this stuff up for most consumers and i'll consumers in the united states v c r s are still flashing twelve o'clock mine is i don't know about your al but i mean i'm capable stopping i'm just not interested in my materials that we've tried to produce we've got some good things  online and here us now dot org consumer reports is doing more materials but it's really difficult to do this in a drill down fashion that actually tells people here is how you're going to meet the complications of your individual television set and i understand it seems like it's just this wire d that wire but for a lot of people who aren't accustomed to this wired that wire it's a little more drama than this and they didn't ask for it that's a problem this is sort of a government mandate no one asked for it but it is and you say it's a bus coming  down the road and they're getting ready to see it and they don't know what to do i think that's a pretty dramatic draconian example what we have i mean this is like your son saying i don't want to go to high school it's a mandate and i said well if you go to high school you're going to make a lot more money  college to do that all the benefits and if we sat here without this february seventeenth zero nine the benefits would not occur not just dealing with third generation wireless first responders you know under the old law broadcasters required to convert to digital under this formula and it turns out that there are fifty markets that would not actually be able to conform and ultimate would not be able to move ever into this position so use it as a mandate is really like my son he says why do i have to go to high school the go to high school because then you get more money and satisfying life and i say to the constituents this is not a mandate this is an opportunity to get and auction off more of the pretty happy with it and they don't really want to have to go to the store to do anything else to continue to receive television tomorrow dr greer let me just ask you what do you have all the incentives and resources to make this successful yes however it would be nice if we could  fully use the government's resources to ensure we're educating people what do i mean by that we're glad that we're putting but the f c c is going to put posters up and post offices if we're sending checks to senior citizens veterans if there's a way that we could do additional pieces of information in there about the detainee transition so we don't we don't miss anybody if we could have the president or the president sees bully pulpit on the d t b trans that could be huge in order to make sure americans understand this the one area of need i think going down the pike is perhaps having a phone center where people could call and talk to a real live human being about a problem either in english or spanish that's  costly we at the ne b have committed tens of millions of dollars of our trade association resources towards this but that would be you know if i had a wish list that would be an additional wish list let me let me also say that i like my colleagues i think when people see the crystal clear picture the amazing audio quality the fact that there will be multicast channels and more programmes and more services they go w resources and you have in place i think largely the one exception and that is the f c c has before proceeding to do with this committee actually did which is have a small system exemption for very small operators to the the sixty five million dollars for translators in towns less than twenty thousand people full powers as we all know spent ten years on this transition believe it or not class a stations and low power stations are progressive group of folks we actually want to transition to digital but we find ourselves being squeezed by this time line so what we need for the class and the low power industry we need to be provided with additional funds so we can all of us through the yk discussion in which we were worried immensely worried about everything possibly happening and some of those discussions very helpful we did have a presidential task force for that you folks are the presidential task force and we think based upon the incentives and the resources that are available we should be successful and i'm optimistic and i think the benefits to the consumer so immense that members of congress and others have to explain that to them so that they realize it takes a little effort to get good things in life you can't get it for free and you have to learn to be able to hook up your box eco and save a penny and do it so i thank you mr chairman i thank the  gentleman and recognize myself for some additional questions when i first wanted to let you know that we're going to have each one of you back here on february seventeenth two thousand and nine there is a hearing that i'm  announcing is scheduled for that date and we're going to ask you all to come back and sit here as we are on the transition day and and so i just want you to clear the lot of times you don't get enough notice  remember back years ago my old buddy mark foller when he was chairman of the federal communications commission back in the one nine hundred eighty s he used to say that really television is nothing toaster to a t v set turning it into a toaster with pictures on and i don't know who will be toast that day that still remains to be seen but i do know that the most vulnerable part of the american population are the minorities are the senior citizens and our poor people and there is a very heavy responsibility which all of us share to ensure that there is the minimum humanly possible of disruption to their lives that occurs on that day and if there are holes that there is a program in place on that day ensure that everything is rectified in a very brief period of time after february seventeenth but our goal is as it is at radio shack zero defects we want to we want  to put in place the best plan that we can and execute it like that is twenty percent concept eighty percent execution so the execution of this plan will ultimately  remaining analog him and sorry from you our store shelves and and i would urge all of the other retail stores across the country to do the same i think it would be in the public interest