first time on the agenda directions on emergency evacuation procedures from the conference room if we do have an emergency we have two doors there and we should meet in the south parking lot to make sure world safe there is a sign up sheet going around it isn't interested crucibles sign up sheet if you want to maintain party status you should sign that sign up sheet with your name and address name the project that you're interested in and for  khumalo comments and questions from the public that are not related to the agenda and the comments or questions from the public not related to the agenda there were none amounts months imbalance no i'm going to join jennifer this is go my last six months on the board i'm going to step off oh yeah wife and i want to travel so so we have two new seats to fill  good dave wheeler from the city's south burlington public works stormwater division so another great story on a project we have here before you basically when kennedy drive was widened some years ago so before  along kennedy drive so that's why this one is called can you drive pond three that has the naming convention during the widening project as part of our forest ration plan for potash brook we looked at all seven ponds to see if we could retrofit them and upgrade them  each of them was only designed to treat the runoff from the associated expansion of impervious surface of kennedy drive at the time and in this instance there is a bunch of water that's going right past the pond three we saw the opportunity to reroute that water into the pond to provide treatment to that untreated runoff that required expanding the pond significantly almost doubling in size and then we chose to retrofit it to a gra phosphorus production of the treatment system because we have the lake champlain phosphorous team deal that we have to comply with as well so in addition to palm three we're also looking at modifying a few other pond so you will now that's a two point nine million dollars project in this is a partner project to that and through that loan they're going to completely forgive this loan for the stormwater aspect so essentially the state is this is unique so anytime we do a sewer project we can pair a green storm water infrastructure project with that ten percent of the total sewer project cost so we have another pump street station upgrade we could pay or another project with that but i don't see that if since you're putting them up why don't we follow along with acidic comment it's more of saying that we didn't get a weapon permit state when we permit so i don't mind the process that we did go through to show that you know there was some effort involved here we did corney with the state well its program there is a site visit conducted by yes sorry neither well along with the project to the goal was to build it out in january so you know over the summer next year over the over the next construction season so be done by november of next year the year the reduction in peak flow during the one year storm system for its existing conditions and that's summarized further detailed in the description above and we've also expanded the storage five no permit is needed is what you're saying first of all yes so first of all i was with the first page was about basically if we had a state weapons permit then we'd be complying with came out looked at it and said you're going to go this this area has a ton of wildlife that this can be affected by putting more water through so we're not building any impervious as part of this project we're not generating any new runoff and capturing existing runoff that is flowing uncontrolled into the well and we're detaining it in reducing those so so there will theoretically be less water in the in the weapons area which is where all the turtles in the pool seemed so i just ask the same but on what it was slower rate what's the likelihood is there any likely effect to two significant h after that there's a comment about the landscaping plan the criteria is the impact of the encroachments on the specific one functions and values identified in the field doing to part is minimized or offset by appropriate landscaping storm water treatment stream buffering and or other mitigation measures so we do have a landscaping plan in there to basically just restore some of the cleared vegetation  options so we are doing that so our impact is the storm of your practice which also can be a mitigation thing so essentially it is landscaping right it's going to offsetting itself and it's temporary fact this new two hundred fifty square feet so it's being recreated by like less than a foot a foot you know less than the front it's going to centrally be going back to existing conditions as well that impact area so the question was how will this restoration provide medication for the functions of the bread lines here so the two hundred fifty square foot of new impact again is it's only it's question after these responses on the state is got this new program where they will forgive ten percent of the loan on that if you construct a green storm water infrastructure projects so this is in a different part of the city and we're basically getting picture of this where the stream comes down we're talking about a different project entirely i don't stand here but you know in the case of the project we're talking about which is what we're supposed to be talking about today to be the idea is it's making it to the to the you're right but it is it it is it is it detracting above in order to improve down below i  together improved water quality is going to improve wildlife throughout the whole  use district building of old standards as allowed under the regulations section eight point zero six h for a twenty thousand two hundred square foot one hundred room five story hotel building find a little fucker because there's a lot of people in the room that weren't here for the first hearing of this application this application is for alternative entrants compliance the project is in the form base code district which is  subject to administrative review the board will only review certain aspects of this project so their view their review in this instance is limited to the project's compliance with the required entrance number and spacing on the board heard this application that our last hearing in this is to address some of their comments that they made at that hearing so it's really about the doorway to our most roads are external and musicians so i think just following up on what marla had said if you know we are here two weeks ago to talk about the use of the alternative compliance standard for the doors during that meeting we talked about the building itself and ways that we could so what we did was we created the enlargement is to show what our intentions are as you can see that the door facing wilston road is designated as a public entrance it will be operational during business hours and then we created becomes a soft seating lobby or a small local art gallery where artist can display the work has to be determined and then to address here other comment regarding enhancing the entrance at that south side of the building if you want to flip to the p two hundred six so you've changed the use affectively is that correct it was the intention at the last meeting that door if you look at the last week that door was designated as a blue door as it was a public entrance i understood if it's a public entrance to the hotel that it has to be open to the hotel it's now public entrance only to the meeting rooms correct it is open to time if if it's a chair if there's an actual separate use like a separate caf the public doors will only be open for the public period and so the question is during the public period  the board room the meeting room or the or either the meeting meeting because one's meeting storage and meeting room are they open or are you just walking into a lobby you'd be evoked walking into a lobby that's all you get it's all you get so at the same question comes up for me because effectively you are your closest you you've got a public door to know where if the public door was to something to an operational use like a cafe and the cafes open from eight to six and you open the doors open from eight to six that's mine but you're what you're making is a public entrance to a lot of you know the intent of this hotel is a limited service otoh we can't we've been through this i you you missed out on last time we've got around around on this so the question is what is the lobby doing that makes it a public use other than being a lobby because of being a lobby is not a public is not really a public use if it's an art gallery sceptical didn't sound like it would at the last meeting so what what has changed in the in your clients thinking since i'm i'm not aware of that wasn't an option  this rather than them public entrance on that on that street and what we're hearing now is it's going to be a lobby with a buzzer entrance that allows people to access the lobby correct me to the rest of the first floor just a personal comment that seems to be putting a lot of responsibility on everest manning that desk it's that it would be very similar to the same responsibility they would have at the main front desk you're still only have limited visual control of who you saw check into the hotel right but so you're that person is looking at a video monitor i take it you know and they make a decision on the spot whether that person comes in or not when walking on the and ordinarily wouldn't be a big deal because you're you're you're a quarter to the lobby pretty much only goes the lobby except it goes to the elevators but yeah so now you really have access to yeah to have card reader control at the elevators as well to yeah to deny public access have the rest that would be better yes that would usually fix outside it looks right yeah they don't know what is a black door correct that only certain people can access and it gets people out of to the interior of the hotel yes at some point during an event those doors the red doors on the inside would probably be fully open allowing access to the entire hotel if someone's in the me room and using that south lobby as a so this this doesn't the still doesn't quite get to what you would part which was before the public access and we felt that it got to the public access because it description so i'm not going to get a good but it is the plot i plot up with cation and the master plan a petition there we're considering at once so we are at this point in the process this is currently the master to have larger weight than any other member of the public just because he's a member of the develop appreciate his concern about wasting the time everyone's time and resources regards to the army staff and to the applicant but i feel comfortable directing  us to proceed  they'll get an early weather report from the court about whether the court thinks he's going to succeed what was the phrase you used when you when you appealed to the environmental and the court will only do that if there is a motion to that effect so when mr set files his appeal he can also file a motion for stay out of the proceedings and the value of that from every criteria for allowing the stay is a probability that the will succeed or just case frankly if i thought it would succeed i would be supportive of mr self suggestion i don't think it will but that's for the court to say and you can find out sooner rather than later what the likely tendency of the court will be next or much frank i've already stated that the board is going to discuss both  once the board review is complete the public is invited to provide additional comments everyone who wishes to speak will given the opportunity to do so at nine thirty matt will be doing a check to evaluate whether to continue public comment portion of the meeting to a future date so that commenters can have the board's full attention because after nine thirty your want comments will be limited to two minutes per person and commenters are encouraged not to repeat each other for anyone who feels that two minutes are not enough the board welcomes written comments and if you provide them to the staff the board will read them before the meeting ok so we're going to one thirty ok so if you'll please describe the project as though we just went through staff cometh now so first thing we need to do is are there any conflicts of interest with current board members not recuse board plan in staff the other week and as part of that meeting we talked about the zoning boundary and instead of putting that boundary and off of the plans we were directed to put them in off of a g i  database and that resulted in a minor shift to the boundary line in this area so this plan is not one hundred percent in alignment with some of the more refined like landscape lighting storm water plants just on the rear of these lot of these lots all the roads everything else are the same so as we proceed to this it's been recommended that this meeting be continued the rest of the plant will be updated for that next meeting so where we are at this point so you did not change any of the roads you change the lots on th so there are series a lot along the western side of the neighborhood in this area so we amended the law the width of some of these lots in this area and the depth of these lots and we removed some single families and added in town houses so those those are the changes from last time those four units the two townhouses prior to that they were th than that from sketch point on the right he's just talking about from the packet to the parakeet with all those plants to the overall this overall plan has changed on that western line the total of one hundred four hundred fifty four residential units ninety five single family lots detached single family lots and that's a mixture of small medium and what we're considering large lots that range from less than a quarter acre up to less than half an acre there's thirty five what i'm referring to as townhouse style multifamily lots there's some in this area and there's some this area and there's twenty four duplex units that are incorporated throughout the neighborhood so i'm going to sort of direct you to some of the specific areas where the project is change last time we were in front of the board there were actually two on trances two nolan farmer owed one has been retained the second access was off of the area near the town houses and connected in over the wetland here there was a desire to have the project connect from staff there was a desire and i think from the g r b of the project connect directly to dorset street and to do that there was really a requirement to have only a single what land crossing so we exchange this one crossing for this well and cross and the result was we ended up picking up two additional townhouse units but we lost six duplex units all this area on the what on the east side of the wetland is within the village residential district the rest of the development is within the neighborhood residential in the back portion of the projects within the natural resource in doing so we had we were showing a small short dead end street that had ten duplexes over off dorset street and that's been redesigned to incorporate fifteen town house family unit based on the larry burke review of stormwater  sketch plan we were anticipating this morse holistic stormwater pond on farm road under further review that has been split into two areas we picked up a couple or one or two single family lots here and we lost single family lots here we've added duplex units we lost a duplex unit in i'm referring to is the crescent park to create more of a green connection as we just discussed we picked up a couple you know us duplex units up against the natural resource district there was changes to the internal green space there was  desire expressed from the board and staff to widen the spaces but also create connectivity between the natural resource known and complex that runs through the site so there's additional green space here all these green spaces have been widened to commentate that as well as green spaces added on the east side of the road there is also a connection that was created between berry lane and the end of bellflower road so this is a new green connection that wasn't there previously green connection not not single family there's no development it's common space there's going to be a path through it excessive wall to the entire community technically if somebody walked off the street they probably would get kicked off out of that area too but it will be controlled by the neighborhood so just to remind you some of the design elements here we oriented this central road trip which the name of that dewberry  so we oriented dewberry towards camels it's a wider street it's going to have sidewalks and parking on both sides and there's going to be smaller street trees so this is somewhat of an organizing element the other issue that we really sort of have developed along with the d r b is this really internal network of green spaces so almost every single lot within this neighborhood every single unit backs up to green space where that be the well and or the in our district or these internal green spaces so we have only a handful of exceptions where we have lots that actually back up into of a lot so it's a really nice buffer plan that really adds a lot of green that can be controlled by the neighborhood overall some of the other items that we were asked to look at were the recreational mints the recreational and includes a lot of passive recreation  and we added benches through a lot of the areas in the neighborhood there have been pass that we've talked to the path committee as well as the recreation committee about and there's going to be sure packed pathways so that's like a crusher fine gravel in that will be laid down the fabric to control weeds things like that most of the roads internal have sync have sidewalks on one side of the road as mentioned the central has sidewalks on both sides of the road and then elderberry way way lane has a recreation path on the one side and has a sidewalk on the other side trillium also has a rec path that continues from illinois berry all the way out to dorset street and the applicant is committed to preserving funds for a mid block crossing across dorset street to eventually connect with the future b be located on the east side of dorset street other recreational elements we're proposing a small playground area play equipment within the neighborhood again pathway benches we really see this is a connection down to second park in this area and there's a basketball court small like elementary school sized basketball court proposed down in this area it's one of the if you look at recreational standards it's one of the higher scoring recreation components that you can provide just because the hard surface can be used for multiple of items not just basketball where the passive recreation w bike paths with the sidewalks a lot of walking with the benches and technically not within our our internal park system but we are planning to maintain a large open field for informal recreation purposes in in our district this area is currently maintained his lawn so in our discussions we felt that that still complies with the intent of the n our district that will be this is the existing tree line no trees will be removed as part of that there will be a smaller maintain green in here and there's going to be some large some edge meadow areas that would be in holy mode to find that it location but just to maintain it as an open space and not let everything grow into woods one of the other changes that you'll notice is there are some additional green meeting the landscape requirements through a series of landscaping on the individual single family multifamily lots as well as common plantings within the common areas in the buff areas  street trees as well we provided point and there we go so we got plans that show all call out all the street planting shows all the internal planting planting in the storm water areas and then we provide it if you can get to the next page we've provided typical as that show you know the general intent for the single family lots and for the multifamily units if you scroll to the next page there's there's another plan that shows the family part of the landscape treatment includes delineation of different areas that includes delineation of the wetland areas as well as delineation is the common green areas so there's going to be a combination of cedar  and areas that will be spaced intermittently along with landscaping and that will really define the edge for people so they will know not to maintain their yard further beyond that in the rest of the neighborhood where there's internal green space there was a concern that people would sort extend their yards out common green space that's going to be delineated by a combination of plant teams as well as boarders we anticipate through the earth work on so the way that lighting has been designed for this neighborhood is based on sort of a rural standard for for neighborhoods so we're lighting intersections and were lighting blot crossing areas lighting levels are based off of i seen a standard isolated intersections as well as many blocks crossings and we're using the standard south burlington decorative fixture at these locations in we are looking at preserving existing trees to the side and some of these areas now  and so in a lot of these areas there's creating throughout so it's fairly difficult for us to maintain the trees internal on the project on the outside there is definitely opportunity to maintain we're going to be taking a little bit closer look at that and provide in a tree preservation plan we were trying to get to that point tonight but given the last minute shifts here and there that's something that we'll all be looking at and provide in the next meeting is to really give these these units a sense of ownership so instead of having just a big open we're yard to these units good fences make good neighbors so these are all within it it's the village residential areas opposed to the neighborhood residential area so we actually we did actually have some more duplex lower density that was more more it was somewhere to some of the other development and turn on to the syrian we're actually directed to increase the density and change to look at that a little bit higher density from staff you know we're not looking at this as a project separate from everything else you know this is meant to integrate to everything else that's going on in the southeast quadrant you know there's a lot of development going on on the other side of  ask why they created village residential there because those residential is intended to be higher density and more affordable more workforce housing so so it's a question for of what would you go after first there is actually a phase him play so page three number one total say coverage for the proposed plan is approximately twenty percent the apa click the applicant has somewhat revise or let their layout based on initial stuff feedback since their national submission fifty one residential units on seventy acres yeah so that's like two point one plus two point one five or something like that you have to break right ok thank you a number two staff recommends the board discuss this designation with the apple can and if accepted require the applicant to revise the masterplan as a condition of  master plan but staff considers other very lame which is the north south collector roadway on the labeling issue and will oh oh changes in location layer capacity or number of collector roadways if they change require an amendment to the master plan so designating that as a collective roadway it means that if you change that then you have to amend your master plan so stealth thinking on this is the port has historically been larger development included some collector roadways so that there is some trigger for a master plan amendment you can't just change your entire project and say it's a master plan who will take a look at that in the future would connect to the parcels of the south at such time you know either ten fifty one hundred years when that's a lot so we thought that was appropriate to be testing it is collector it way the other one that sixty feet wide is that are three stuff no it's the apple can has labeled open space three on some plans and seven on other plans stuff recommends the board require the applicant to ring correct this as a condition of approval and that's fine with us are four staff considers the applicant has attempted to address the technical review comments but does not have adequate expertise to determine if the response has been adequate and has referred to the revised study to the third party review or for confirmation staff will provide feedback to the board regarding the revised traffic study and he continued hearing so we submitted a traffic impact study for the project proactively we requested that i get reviewed by the city's third party they reviewed it we provided responses and now we're waiting for responses to our responses so and we're we're fine with that condition and comment about your street intersection and in the traffic study that was in the packet lemmer dickinson it looks like there were only two cases in which the build versus no build resulted in a reduced level of service and in both cases it looks like there are several areas that are full of service as one of the intersections as you note it with an a section and the city has studied that intersection so though typical responses maybe there's accidents the planes you know they wanted to just check to see if there were other more creative so number six staff recommends the board consider consider continuing the hearing to allow the natural resources committee to complete their review staff recommends the board evaluate the requested continuation date when it is received more time so that we can examine and be able to make a good report back to you but we don't have a specific time if you we know that it will take at least a meeting we have to ask the developer to come in and prepare some questions we're working on right now but i thought that sort of you have more questions than what was in the letter in the package but i'm sure there will be substantially more just from since that meeting of our natural resource committee we've seen the amount of information a staff has produced this all this long document i think i've distributed sinnott out to the various members but we haven't had a chance to have any discussion on that our next meeting is next wednesday david crawford i'm number seven stuff recommends the board discuss whether to require the applicant to provide an elevation for the multifamily home facing dorset street demonstrating that both the dorset street in trillium street sides will present will be so if you want to zoom in a little the number eight stuff considers the phasing plan should also take into consideration communal elements of the project such as parks and passed so that each phase is accompanied by a proportional amount of infrastructure and recommends the peak right there so the first phases in red comes often on farm road and does a loop around like this so obviously we don't have a community space designated with that district yet with stuff getting at is they want to add to the park or you know this is kind of further away you know the basketball hoop  obviously everything else is going to be open at that time so it's really you know there is this the walk path the walking path will be you know compass by that by that phase but as far as  designated i think they record parma call them a program you know you know some sort of infrastructure a playground or something like that there isn't anything clear with that so whether we whether we include the  playground that's what we're going to look at to see kind of what makes sense with what phases as we're building out it will probably mostly be proximity really that will dictate what goes for first and then from there we go to the cyan which is this loop this southern loop here in the feature access portion of it and magenta would be this piece up top which would circle the crescent park up there and we also have this this designated phase for these these maltese since there is really no public infrastructure no public roads we'd like to be able to start that phase really at any time because it's not dependent on two access points or you know it's not dependent really on another phase to get started so there's a high demand we'd like to start those whenever a number of nine staff recommends the board approved the requested pre construction grades and consider whether the whether to request the applicants smooth the rear yard grading to create a more uniform parents from the right path  yeah it's most of them are graded to be garden style units obviously if those change you know if they become walkouts or more traditional style grading might get revised slightly but right now they're created mostly as as garden style with  you have to grate across the unit you know at least four feet to give space and i think that's where some of the sharper might might be from a sharper sharper gradient there day across the unit so we can get that four foot drop so but we'll look at create a limit on individual ratios such as no one having a whip with to death ratio less than one the one this is in regards to the one to two lot ratio is part of the  and there's certain dimensional requirements were going with smaller lot sizes we have corner lots that have additional setbacks on the corners so when you start to go into those components of a sudden you have a lot on the end of a row of lots that doesn't need it even though the rest a lot to do because we're trying to create a building envelope to meet the build in size that proposed in that area yet the extra setback on this corner a lots extended out the other thing to really take into consideration with a lot dimensions is we've been pushed continuously to have more green widen these green corridors behind the lots so we don't have lots that are backing up t lots so there's you know nobody's going to look and say this green this lot isn't as deep as say that same lot if there was no green space in the back so there's a lot of green street green common green space that's being incorporated that we're you know there's there's definitely a compromise happening although on average we are meeting this lot dimensions so we should make a decision on whether to create a limit on individual ratios so would this impact you negatively to how to not to not be able to have a with to depth racial less than one point one number eleven stuff considers therefore that the applicant must reconfigure lots eighty two to eighty eight to not require subdivision of area within the s e q inner peace owning district and mike touched on this in the beginning that's in respect to these lots here before we showed these lots encroaching into the n r p district and this is our response to the reconfiguration of those lots so they were going to keep the wanted to ratio they were significantly wider and deeper now they match more closely to the ones across the street and they slightly get bigger as you move to the south and then these were lots previously also those have been proposed as a duplex unit so with this comment is the request by the and to use the allowances within section fifteen point zero three c to relocate the district boundary line by fifty so what's shown on that plan the relocated boundary line that the applicant is requesting the existing boundary line it's fifty feet farther to the east the outlook and has and stop me if i overstepped here but what we talked about on the phone was that because you're making that request your you have shown additional green areas it's a while if you can zoom back out on the homes but it's seventy eight seventy nine eighty and then again up at the top group number twelve once reconfiguration is complete staff knows that the project acreage within each zoning district is necessary for calculation of impervious coverage and recommends the board require the applicant to provide the money bridge project closing the hearing to allow the correct values to be recorded in the decision on this application and we will do that i think what you're referring friends in use of the coverage is shown as a typical on every lot i think this is speaking more to the coverage would be i mean there's no coverage in the n r p but it would be the coverage in the n r district in the b r district like standard and i apologize for not referencing it precisely but there's the extent it says the board can wave coverage of a lot by lot basis but it must be met on the number thirteen stuff supports the applicant's waiver request but recommends the board require overall building and lot coverage calculations by zoning districts be submitted prior to final plot approval for the project but that's basically what we just went over there and that and is the master plan be so item number one staffer commands the board require as a condition of approval that the documentation of an option to purchase sufficient t d r s be submitted as park part of the final plan application and we have no problem with that the neighbors have submitted hand let me be more precise the save it was open spaces south burlington so submitted by hand one portion of which intense discussion do you agree that this overlay is accurate so we're just looking at this for the first time right ok take a look at it because it's going to become covered but i can tell from the i don't read the memo layered with my brother i'd rather know that we have agreement on the basics here before we get into any further discussion and if we don't have agreement let's find out why not portion of one of the maps in the city's comprehensive plan zooming in on this area which is one of two natural resources maps that the comprehensive plan happens there is a series of different potential resources where there's waterways where something that they call valley bottoms looking at sort of basic topography what's lower what's sort of around the streams and some other ones and sort of put it together that the comprehensive plan shows that the cross hatching on what the neighbors have done here in fact is accurate in relation to the to the where i think they're all based and where i think they got it may may have a point the relationship between a comprehensive plan and the all the ores is a difficult one it's been ruled on  what the case is in addition the theory of behind that is that when something is stated in the plan it only becomes reality when it's for the most part when it's reflected in a it in a positive command of the l d r's themselves so those aspirations that are left unaddressed in the in the in the land development regulation itself don't matter for opera for our purposes in determining whether a development is viable where it is a tricky zone here what your opponents are saying to you is that there's a specific section of article fifteen that they cite to fifteen point one eight ten that requires the project requires the project to be consistent with the goals and objectives comprehensive plan now let's be clear if there was a goal objective of a comprehensive plan and the l d r didn't say you must comply with the goals and objectives of the comprehensive plan the fact that it's a goal and objective wouldn't matter one page you know right up front the comprehensive plan what it was and by the way they are markedly quote somewhat to my annoyance the relevant the relevant on what they say is a comprehensive plan mandates that development is progress excuse says one of the conservation players goals is quote conservation of identify important not to areas in fact the goal is promotion of comprehension of conservation of identified important natural areas so their case even on this point is not quite as strong as  it is not conservation is promotion of conservation you might think about that when you're preparing your response nevertheless the which is a primary conference a conservation area we've established that that is a quote off women's to development and that's what in fact the comprehensive plan says so when i  not going to make a final judgment now i'm letting you know you've got a serious issue talk to your lawyer in addition to whoever else you talk to and come back with how this fairly dramatic overlay does not effectively violate the relevant section of the all the are which is five point one eight i think  fifteen twenty i'm sorry fifteen point one eight ten so the specific answer i'm looking for is basically is you've got to show me the negative how doesn't it violate the goals and objectives documentation of two yards or five with that number two staff recommends the board discuss the issues above pertaining to holmes thousand determine whether to approve the applicant's request for a side setback waiver yeah so in particular they mentioned that only two of the house designs would meet the dimensional constraints on dewberry lane and i think that we are willing to correct me if i  speaking out of term to look at alternative additional building designs to comply with setbacks that we are proposing along older barry lane and then the second part is we are asking for setback waivers as shown as outlined and shown on the internal locks within the development i believe what happened is we submitted a variety of building elevations  stuff noted that only i believe two of them fit within some of the smaller lots most of them being and do very lame and you know with only two two varieties going to go from based on just the elevations we thought we agreed to provide more of the smaller footprint building elevations and then the second part of that was there we'd be willing to revise the guidelines to not to limit more than i believe it was two adjacent of the same style and where we're fine doing both of those things we take a look it's been helpful in previous like inside helpful to look at specific areas where you're asking for specific waivers so we could  if you consider this sort of a premier or loop around here is a printer loop the setback requests are for the interior lots not for any of the xterra lots not for an it a lot of set up a but against any neighboring properties not for any of the all these are state that they must be a certain set back which actually is see here so if you go to the section on the village residential the actual village residential section in the  ours so what's the question we don't have them i don't have all that on the screen but i think we can ok so i believe it's quotes that they they must be a certain distance back from the road which is actually within the sub back that the overall dimensional requirements right so be set back request that was made was for the single into family homes to have a min over number three staff considers that buildings meeting the allowable height of twenty feet should fall below the maximum allowable elevation but recommends the board include as a condition of approval that the applicant demonstrate that each propose structure is compliant with a view protection zone prior to the issuance of a zoning permit for each building and were fine with  it before stuff recommends the board require the applicant to propose a payment schedule and inflation adjustment methodology as part of their final plan application but otherwise considers the script here and met this is a regards of an impact will number five stuff considers that applicant has attempted to address the technical review comments but does not have adequate expertise to determine if the response has been adequate and has referred to the i referred the revised stage of the third party reviewer for the confirmation staff will provide feedback to the board regarding the revised traffic study at a continued hearing and we touched on that from my supplying this same thing here number six staff as the scots compliance with this great tyrian as part of the review of m p eighteen zero one based on the vailable information staff considers this criterion met but recommends the board consider continuing the hearing to allow the national resources committee to complete their review staff recommends the board evaluate the requested continuation date when it's received we touched on that the meeting wednesday  over seven staff as the sky compliance with the secretary and his part of the review of m p eighteen zero one staff recommends the board discuss whether to require the applicant to provide an elevation for the multifamily home facing doors or street demonstrating that both the doors history and trillian street sides will present will be presented as fronts of the building and that's another piece that we touched on from  number eight staff recommends the board continue the hearing to allow the stormwater section an opportunity to review and to review the revised plans and  number nine staff recommends the board consider requiring the proposed grading to be smoother retaining the rear yards to create less of a tall appearance when homes are viewed from the recreation pass running internal to the development and that's on th number ten proposed electric and telecom lines are not shown on the provided plan stuff recommends the board require the applicant to submit drawing showing the proposed layout of site utilities including electric cabinets prior to final plan approval staff for the recommends the board require the applicant to demonstrate coordination with the electric service provider regarding general utility cabin number in the case and we're fine with that too number eleven  design guidelines as a condition of approval and recommends whether the board consider whether to require the applicant to add a condition that limits the number of adjacent homes of the same type and that came up the master plan will  thirteen staff recommends the board require the applicant to add a solid waste handling area for these homes as well and recommends the board require the applicant to demonstrate compliance with the requirement for complete enclosure of the solid it's a green slanted fence or whatever parmenter are it's all will be shared including detail of the screening for the dumpster and then we failed to show locations within the new multisection ins to the south there so we'll be sure to include dumpster locations for those units as well if we do actually one of the thoughts were that we might be able to just have individual cans in that area that truck could pick up from the rear but that's something that we  of number fourteen staff recommends the board require the applicant to submit an open space may not plan prior to final plan approval with wetland buffers clearly delineated management plan should indicate the open spaces should be maintained as designed including language allowing for appropriate maintenance of the recreation trail easement located within the natural resource protection zone will provide a open space management plan stuff considers that it appears based on a review of the layout and grading plans that at least some of the existing mature trees can be preserved within the proposed open spaces and recommends the board require the applicant to prepare a tree number sixteen staff recommends the board require the applicant to obtain preliminary waste water allocation prior to final plot we have no problem with that number seventeen staff recommends the board require the applicant submit a draft of the homeowners association agreement describing the management of open spaces as part of the final plat application and that they require the applicant to clarify which if any of the proposed open spaces are proposed to be public and which are proposed to be maintained by the homeowners association and will put together the homeowners documents detailing those specifics number eighteen staff considers that to require dish no parking where no homes are proposed would detract from the provided open spaces and park lands and recommends the board approve the parking layout as proposed and this is things number nineteen staff recommends the board confirm with the applicant whether they wish to seek any variation from the standard and notes that any variation will require dear b approval at this time we're not going to seek a variation but we're going to look at a little bit more on our side and come back to you at the next hearing with more specifics regarding this number twenty the applicant has provided floor plans demonstrating compliance with this criterion for all home types except the single family corner type which does not appear to meet this criteria staff recommends the board require the applicant to revise the single family corner type and the garage is accessed from one corner and notice the front of the homes on another corner so it show it doesn't show the eight foot setback that's required by the old they are so will revise that elevation to make sure it meets the regulation there were twenty one stuff considers the required stream operation permit will result in compliance with this criterion and recommends the board require the applicant demonstrate that they have obtained that permit prior to the issuance of the first permit and  we're fine with that that's in regards to the crossing being proposed  i mean is there a practical problem getting the wetlands permit before the before the construction begins or going to auction begins now before final  entrance i think we made that based on you know encouragement from the board staff was not the first time that issue was brought up but we knew that we were a little we're going to be limited to a single well on crossing and  intersection now coming up towards the street so many made sense for traffic also now because you have included high density housing can you give us a but we are going to comment two minutes per public comment that is going to be watching for nine thirty we're now at nine ten so we'll have time for just about ten comments if we get them all to moods so we're happy to start the process and just to be clear doesn't mean that this is no opportunity to comment after not thirty it's quite likely we're going to continue the searing and they'll be other opportunities and of course there's always an opportunity to submit written comments which are obviously not limited in words or time  but we ask you to identify yourself and i'm playing bad cop and trying to limit you to two minutes and get as many voices as possible that wish to speak tonight ok good evening daniel self attorneys i'm here on behalf of fourteen interested persons did my hand out did the hand out make it around before i got here ok so they're all identified by name and address and i need to read their names and addresses now that's here  that's who i'm here on behalf of and i have least ten people who've ceded their two minutes to me so i'm happy to if it makes your job easier man i'm happy to talk for the next twenty minutes you know what would help is if they identified themselves ok during the process we will be time over time so that they are given party status which they would be so i think we have that with the memo but i think  considered and decided to move forward ok so just for the record we are here under protest we don't think this board has any authority to consider a preliminary plat or master plan because the matter never made it out of sketch so but we'll take that up with the court i think frank  t the last hearing suggest that maybe the board could benefit from some guidance on that so we will pursue that so i was surprised when i walked in and the the applicant was talking about dumpster  screens we've got much bigger fish to fry here tonight i submit respectfully the the the r s require that a plan you development be consistent with the goals and objectives of the comprehensive plan and one of those goals and objectives is  conservation of identified an important natural area and the comprehensive plan mandates that development is prohibited in primary conservation areas and if you look at the handout conservation area that is off limits to development so thorson meadows is not consistent with the goals and objectives of the comprehensive plan in fact it is affirmatively and glaringly and frightening and inconsistent with the goals and objectives of the plan of developers proposing and attempting to build in a right parry and connectivity district or area which is if you look at page three they hand section nine point zero six p three a b all the ars talks about the plan that the developer has to come up with to protect existing natural resources on each site and that includes conservation area shown on the comprehensive plan they're supposed to protect this area not destroy it look at that portion of pleas of nine point zero six b three existing natural resources shall be protected not should not be a shall be protected due to the development plan including dot dot dot conservation area shown in the comprehensive plan conservation area shown in the comprehensive plan and we've got dozens of houses sitting right in the conservation area i don't know how this happens but it shouldn't it shouldn't be allowed to go forward comprehensive plans are very clear  primary conservation areas depicted on map seven include environmentally sensitive and hazardous areas that are quote off limits to development off limits means off limits page for the handout a comprehensive plan identifies the following goals of the first page promote conservation of identified important natural areas open spaces aquatic resources exciter analyzing which maps are exactly appropriate to us so we appreciate your bringing this up and stuff is working in your five minutes which is fine ok i just want to be sure you know that other people get a chance to speak i know people are asked to speak on their and that's that's great but i don't want to deny the opportunity for someone who's coming here because you know twenty minutes i'm going to say we're going to wrap up i totally understand i totally agree and i appreciate that the board has taken the hand out is going to look into it that we're not to close the hearing tonight is that correct it will be other opportunities for myself and my clients to speak at future meetings so with that in mind you've got to hand out i think it speaks for itself i don't guess i don't need to read it to you and i'd be happy to yield the floor if there are other people would like to speak just identify yourself for the record start the book i'm sara da president of the vermont of the south burlington land trust i may have heard wrong but i thought i heard that staff milledge residential section sort of flipped them within the neighborhood residential section because of the natural features on the land i hope i didn't hear that right  and then i thought i also heard something about a boundary line on the west side down adjacent to the n r p that the boundary line of the development in air go of the an r p land had been moved fifty feet well you don't i don't think you just move lines around arbitrarily and certainly i don't think the staff does that i think we have bloodies that consider those kinds of changes side of where it is shown on the map in conjunction with a peer to your subdivision application involving land in two or more zoning districts the d r p may either discretion approve or request to relocate the boundary of design district up to fifty feet in either direction other side of the work and the applicant has looked at this and said well our interpretation is that it makes sense to put it at the top of the slope break in common stuff as discussed this with them and said well if you're going to do that we'd like to thank you for all you can speak my name is ray donda not one of the ten i've lived in software from for about thirty five years i live in the pinnacle development right now some familiar fisherman trapper through significant portions of my life as well as just being a general brewer person skiing hiking mushroom picking but the trapping is the most relevant experience when you become a trapper if you're going to be successful you have to learn the habits the signs the food sources where they live how they travel in order to target that animal to patch so i went through that for about five years in high school when the elementary school and so today when i go out to someplace like this or even out in  force anywhere i look at everything with different eyes than most people i see things they don't see i understand things they don't understand so i come here not as a credentialed expert but as a practical expert on while and in particular when you're trapping you tend to follow the streams and brooks i have personally photographed maint right at the brook crossing on  pond which has class one wetlands if not actually classified that way they certainly deserve it and it's class to wetlands up around the golf course area around the lake there the same thing i don't know if they've classified as that but that certainly deserves it so if i were to go someplace and want to find these animals and trap i would go to that brook right in that open field and i would catch  we catch me now i'm not suggesting that people should do that but i just simply point that out because it's relevant i know about how animals use that corridor so you have the two wetlands at either end of that brook and this brook connects those that's a vital a critical wildlife couper so for that reason i am opposed to this project if one one warm one just one more statement if the project were to go through what would i do to make it better to protect that quarter i would remove all of those buildings on the right side the east side of elderberry lan and i would plant a strip about one hundred feet wide were so no less than one hundred feet all way along the property edge of elders and will on either side of the road thank you very curious they would also like to speak tonight sisters road and i believe that wildlife is extremely important in the stream is extremely important some of the things that we didn't talk about tonight was pollution with having all these homes and yards and grass and you know we're going to use pesticides probably for lawns and for planting we're going to add significantly to the pollution of the creek and the pollution of the lake by adding one hundred fifty four homes to this area and i think that's vital consideration considering we're just talking about the wetland mitigation issues on kennedy and farms the other was the traffic issue this summer when they were doing the traffic thing they were pushing a button in their pickup truck as i walked by in the morning that's how they were doing their traffic count they didn't have a strip the guy was in his truck pushing a button on a summer morning when school was an insertion doesn't take into effect the increase homes that are being built at spear on spear at south village or the increased homes are being built  that are all going to funnel into doors and spear and there's going to be a huge traffic backlog which might need lights or whatever roundabout if you're adding that many homes to already so those are just some of the considerations i would add to the present thank you  yes my name is art shields and i live in thirteenth fifty dorset street which is right across the street from where the proposed exit on to dorset street will be originally that was going to be a private street and now it's a major road coming on to dorset street that street is approximately i would say six hundred feet between there are no one farm road which i think is going to be an awful lot of traffic coming out to different roadways you know very close e mansion standards basically they're asking you know to decrease the size of each lot from twelve hundred square feet down to forty six hundred square feet that's a pretty spo seems to me that from what i'm learning and staff comments that a lot of these requests are pretty can preconceived going to be approved i'm not saying that's true and the other thing is is  i've lived out there for forty years and you know when i moved out there was ten acres on and then we went to where we had five hundred four hundred from dorset street and now we're talking what might be fifteen street so this is definitely a change in the character of the neighborhood of what we're doing going to and you're also you've got the same thing planned for no one farm road where you having multifamily buildings where now it's but if you take their figures and say the average house is going to be a thousand square feet or twelve hundred square feet excuse me that works out to that they're building costs what they gave you fourteen million dollars or seventy two thousand seventy two dollars and eight cents a square foot there's no way that number's even close to accurate so i think you ought to get the numbers you know for your landscaping budget a lot higher i don't know if know i don't know what's included in that number if that includes the infrastructure cost or if it's just a building cost if it includes their infrastructure cost and then it's an awful lot higher than not thank you for  the edge of my property and apparently what how many fifteen of sixteen and twenty or whatever it is it's it's this is a this is a dramatic shift i understand the planning to department planning commission  called my neighborhood village residential but it isn't you know everybody everybody this is a vast change in the in the style and substance of the neighborhood i think that's fine it is what it is but have a little have have a little understanding of what of buffering of scale and that's that seems to be my biggest problem backing up real quick the the change of the fifty foot line we have done that we only but we took like three nights of discussion in order to add units because of it fifty feet on those lots is a big deal and what you're getting for is not it very little green spaces in backyards that's just not that's not acceptable we wouldn't have been acceptable on the o'brien farm when we did and it wouldn't shouldn't be acceptable here good evening my name is rose and greco roman resident of south burlington i live about a mile away from this i understand what your role is your digital board you have to follow the rules you don't make the rules you don't make the policies i know you have some latitude you know to make some sort of subjective determination but you've got to stick by the rules i totally understand and i respect you i want to throw something big got you to consider and that is some of the things we talked about here are maps they're in they're in a language but on the ground things have changed because of climate change although that is a repairing kind of activity area by the way there are some well there's lots of wetlands they are there's also an uncommon species there and i want to speak to the animals because right now it's not identified as a wildlife carter but in reality it is because we blocked off the other wildlife carters and built over their homes anybody that lives in that area can tell you we see bobcats we see coyotes  talked about the main guy was with ray when he saw that we got raccoons and possums that's where they go because they can't go where they used to because there are houses there i just want you know in your head remember climate change remember the balance of nature as we destroy their homes we destroy them we had a big influx of rabbits this year because they're predators are gone we're killing them and we're eventually go you know believe science are going to kill ourselves you know we want to get off of fossil fuels we want to reduce our energy input doing that massive amounts of fossil fuels being used the massive amount impervious services that  will go into the wetlands the wetlands are there to purify our water the fact that there may be i don't know what it's classified as but wetlands are valuable no matter what class they are the more we pave over them and the more polluted our water becomes  get to this through a series of questions mr stephens i don't want to take the time it's late enough the objection i hadn't plowed all the way through the memo when i spoke last the objection i raised before is the weaker of the two it's not bad but is the weaker the two points raised by mr seth i suggest you look i suggest you look very carefully at that hand and definitely talk to a lawyer and come up with a legal argument that counters the points made to mr step come up with it for us right now i will vote against you on the grounds almost the grounds set forth since inception but i am open to hearing a contrary argument