coach until after as adults we are charged with the enormous responsibility to teach our children the core values of respect from and on as adults we teach through our own actions would be better for  teach manager who are students who are out of the district and i also over see one of the programs here at at and then you know i have a copy of the handbook that goes out to parents and so i'm going to send this room i fifteen copies so i would ask administrator is not to take one so that's enough for the board members i also made a few copies i didn't make the team but i mean if you copy the referral packet that teens fill out when they are concerned about a student and feel that maybe a side of the building continue go to apologize because i'm very passionate about this topic and i can go and so john superintendent has offered to pull me out after twenty one and he has helped me to understand what the question that you've tried to make sure that he answered those questions so i wanted to introduce our staff the elementary program has has moved this year from our site on route fifteen to jericho their so who are students we have currently five elementary kiddos and you can see their grades we have a first grader second grader and we have three fourth graders so that's how that reads and you'll see the feeding schools middle school we currently only have three students high school we have eight students and we also have two additional students that we must like will most likely will be adding soon  part time students and will be up to ten so here's the other apology the other kavya i had a little fun with animation i was practicing my skill so things are going to come in and then they're going to disappear and they're all different color so please bear with me one of the questions was what does a day look like so here's our schedule those three teachers in the spring see so joe and brian they share the teaching responsibilities for both the middle school and high school so those teachers slide to the different program rather than students will be so for example joseph baird teaches science so he'll teach science to the middle school and then later he'll move to the high school so that's kind of how it works so another question was where to work it's girl from mansfield academy and so to give you a sense of movement we've had one student transition back to jericho one to richmond our middle school we've had to step back to brown's river and one to him we also had a student who struggled more he continued to have a really difficult time in the he actually moved out of district high school we've had a student step back into u we've had two students step back to the tech programs and one student who actually returned to us and i think you know as i was reviewing the goals that we had done if i would we really expanded this program one of the goals was allow allowing those doors to swing both ways so if a student was struggling and they had if you will graduate from mansfield academy they can come back for a period of time recollect and then go back into their sending school and how do we know that students are succeeding we're looking at office referrals when they come back we're monitoring or cards we're looking at you know the communication between the sending school in mansfield academy we continue to participate  team meetings and if mike saying you know this student is really struggling you know then we talk about some additional interventions so we keep that that relationship and we continue to participate in team meetings our program has come quite a ways in two years we as i said before the teachers that we have are teaching both at the middle level and the high school level which is help keep the number of professionals minimum we haven't really focused on curriculum just as our schools have paid attention to the standards making sure that students are getting a quality education we have increased the accountability is very clear what the behavioral and academic expectations are when students are with us we have increased communication with both the middle schools and high school we meet regularly we talk regularly leaving increase home school communication every parent who has a child with us it's a weekly proxy for and that's a compilation of how that student has done m those expected behaviors throughout the week so that they know exactly how they're doing we ha totally revised they were for us and we what we've tried to do is clarify roles and responsibilities so who who's responsible for medicaid paperwork when the child is at mansfield academy who's responsible for scheduling those and we've worked them out we've also last year we focused we have a process stakeholder group that worked on a transition process because we didn't want the criteria for stepping back to m m u to be different than it was to round her middle school so we've developed consistent criteria for what students need to meet in order for the team to start saying no i think the student to start is is ready to start looking at stepping back we've educated our administrators and we have work with special educator so that they know what is the program what is the student who who works with us look like what is the appropriate way to access and referral this is always been one of my priorities i believe that if the kids are in you know they're off campus they need to have quality technology they have to have the billing because that engages students so they have smart boards and the students know they use and with teachers we use i pads in our learning and it really does keep people students engaged and we want them to be proud of that program we don't want them to feel like  i would say ninety eight percent of the schools within chinning county have alternative programs you know milton has struggled trying to get one running but and so we can share ideas there's a lot of good good information out there i meet with bev bi weekly by monthly every two weeks to make sure that i'm getting input from around the district i meet with the administrators but  also choose another set of eyes and ears they can share additional input so that we can make changes and be responsive to feed so how do we measure our effectiveness and there's kind of three primary areas we're looking at student performance the performance of the program in terms of meeting district needs and cost effectiveness and so what i try to do is identify areas that we're using to measure whether we're working well in that area or progressing so in terms of student performance we're looking at weekly behavioral performance i meet with each team each week and the teachers are expected to have student be data with them so that we can take a look you know who's doing well who's not doing well and talk about making some changes some adjustments we also look at those student performance in terms of how they're performing within our local assessments of state the state assessments we look at input from sending teams at monthly meetings especially for those kiddos who are stepping back you know how are they doing in those in those schools for the activities in which their own parts as a baby and then i just said that transition activities in terms of district performance you know i'm constantly trying to get feedback in input from administrators and colleagues so you know i've sent out surveys is this program meeting your needs what tweaks can we make how can we make this better so that  these we track office referrals once a student has left us if the student continues to bomb then you know that student hasn't necessarily learned the skills that they need that he or she needed and then also monitoring the progress of the program towards the goals that we were trying to me when we developed this program such as keeping kids in the district giving them the tools to be able to access their programs within their sending schools and we had how are we doing i mean those schools cost effectiveness we're looking at student tuition based upon rome and our program cost compared to two wish an expenditure if students were added districts so currently we have sixteen students if there were students who are out of district in programs but with that expenditure being also looking at the trend you know when we expanded this program we said ok so our goal is to reduce tuition because we were spending an astronomical amount mansfield county is not going to meet the needs of all students it's not going to happen however is the trend decreasing especially for that population and then analyzing those residual costs that also happened as a result of students either join in being in our program or being out of district so part of what we do for students who transition is a student may go to browns river for a class or two they may go for a morning meeting with an all of the ground server and then so we are transporting that student to with and from and so we try to use the v a and we try to keep it cost effective but what that does is that allows that student to build those successes in suit in smaller chunks so we look at that is a cost effective this is important this is an important piece that we added to give a full package and i apologize for the small print for those of you like me who have transition classes when the student is referred that we the building principal sign this this form so that they understand that this program is funded through special ed dollars and so if the student is not eligible for special education then there does need to be a bill back because it's not considered not a cost so you know what we do we've identified kind of the steps that need to happen but you know i know there's a student m m u student right now so i think that's important that you know that we're trying to be as transparent as possible the program is about meeting needs students but the dollars have to come from somewhere so is that true or not to this little differently i see each building has a continuum of options for students the high school i know has an alternative program option and so i think administrate of lead we believe students don't step out of their home building once we've exhausted those options within the building he said he answered question it was just that you know the piece about you know that there was going to be a bill back criteria require a bill back because of that and with that i'm bevis here also to talk about the funding just because i mean this state if we go through  night and we will this year they'll say that's not in they'll make us bill a bill back anyway is that the students that you send back to their starting schools how often they come back again to your pro so i have one student who's probably going to return actually pardon me i have two high school students who are one who hasn't come back yet but we're in the process of talking about that we have another student here who had gone to  attack last year and just he's had some life events and just has felt overwhelmed and so we he's going to finish his senior year with us i mean that's why i say i want those those doors especially for the younger kid goes to sometimes they are in crisis and they're they just need to step out regroup for a bit and then they're able to go back to the high school we know to that's a great question thousand books that's why we stayed involved in those team meetings i will say that if we think that a student needs to have an individual assistant with them they're not ready because it means they can't be in and give them additional scripts if they if they need that or sometimes students just need to know for example by school if the assistant is in the lobby you know if they start to struggle or feel overwhelmed  need be that it may be cooling in outside of school services it might be fully mental health providers you know to help support the family the student in the that's why we joined the national association of alternative programs because in doing the research for this program the most recent information i could find was two thousand and we're going to be measuring our programs against as best practice and the hope is that will design something that we can use statewide so are the measurements things such as having a students successfully relationships are good and then ultimately that they graduate from call it from high school and go on to either a job or on to college and i think the other criteria that we're also l around me a healthy state facilities so some of this is going to be repetitive for individuals on the facilities committee as we've talked about some of these where i'm going to go over  is some of the work we've got done some of the work that forward thinking jeff forward got done over the past year and what some of the needs are in moving forward and then give people an update on where we are with  were coming into the building that's been fixed and then the west end of the upper feel there was some drainage put in some rip rap and if you walk by there any day of the week what you're going to see is a spring  us a general capital plan and provided some estimates for projects i think some of those numbers are going to have to be revised based on some more recent information provided a narrative of the work the description of what it should look like and gave some recommendations on the capital fund so this is a this is the broad capital plan that concurred with that i think joel bryan would also share the same point of view campbell song as really they have done a really good job and i mean you following the capital plan brown's rivers on that on the way towards that and i know that elaine and kevin have been really looking closely at that and starting to devise a plans and that will be part of the budget process for this year but there some windows that need to get replaced exterior doors on the one nine hundred ninety two section that really are in need repair the the movable partitions those insulated partitions between classrooms is they need a roof treatment or to replace the roof and upgrading the refrigerators and the walking freezers and the school placing some of the p last several decades you parking lots in the lower parking lot and renovate the locker  mean you was going on here one of the things i like to point out is of course after dark could be in the community section as well because there's a lot of neat activities and adrian might engender poured out last year everywhere great programs that are organized by the the business students so it's been a i think a tremendous and sadness and just when you're here on the nights of these things are going on the vibe is terrific so it's a great way for the community and use the sample of a survey that we could use both her staff and for community rumors and and if we wanted to survey parents people using the building to generate some objective information  are jack objective that show the buildings are really being taken care of well they give a lot of to the administrators and to the facilities committee for having the foresight say probably ten years ago seven years ago to do a commute to do a capital plan put it together we're in the process very well taken that document and updating it we have purchased a software program well thought the way yeah we're definitely going to do some surveying but i don't know if this is just something that america worked on that we're looking at here that we are that we're going to potentially use i think when we use any parent surveys we're going to we're going to add in a component probably use some of the pieces explain only i think mark wanted to potentially use it with people who actually use the building and say and so that we can take it back we have dave proceeded to you know advertise in school we had girl side up at the end of science we had thirteen girls side up all those thirteen girls were signed up only eight had ever you can see the season starts of every twenty six the first game is somewhere around december eighth there's about ten practices it's not safe for students in my opinion with only eight so for me the choice is either a co author or we don't have to score next year my understanding is we're looking at somewhere between eight to twelve freshmen coming in who are playing hockey dow this is a one year bridge i think if the decision is to not have we'll have hockey next year but i my recommendation to the board is to call off so we can have the support so we can provide the opportunity to our students to play if if we don't cough i do not believe we should be playing off i think it's unsafe i think it puts players at danger not a game you should be on the ice more than a minute a minute have at it at a shift that would be a long shift i agree that's why i said no more then i'm on the pros it's like forty five seconds to hit a little bit longer in high school but i just for me it's a safety thing and that's what led to it and i'm sorry for the hard feelings everybody but if for the choice of the board in my opinion do we do we go off or do we not have a tea i don't believe we have a team how many players to turn ten feet so combined you're looking at having a few more than than what you would normally need but having had a son who played football and was one of the best benchwarmers there was this there's a lot to be said for watching the game and then and being involved in practice  down i guess maybe when you said you had girls sign up when you had them to judge the interest when they signed up when they were told that they were signing up to find out whether there would be a team or there would be a co op javelin and this year for basketball i'm going to hopefully be a varsity benchwarmer and hearing talk from kids that there is a wide variety i don't really think picking up a sport you should start with  varsity level sport i mean if you're not on the ice are cities supposed to be a competitive league where players that are very serious about the sport and i think there could be alternatives if there were enough girls that really wanted to try to pick up hockey maybe a club could be made but i honestly don't think in any sport especially such a high contact high speed that people that are new to the sport should jump into the varsity love i think we could try to take steps to maybe have a club team where they can act like trying to learn how to skate that learn how to play hockey and then if there's a freshman the joins this club team if there are enough girls interest maybe by her so junior year she could then try to go as mr watson said this is not a permanent solution and also i really couldn't imagine having a girl in our program that put i play start playing basketball at four years old if there was a girl i was playing hockey started skating it for having the majority of her team never on the ice ever before and be frustrating for me because out of our city level girls are trying to get better and play and nature of our city sports and i think personally i'm looking forward to this possible season even though i know i'm not going to play because i love the sport and if girls really want to try to love the sport that's just comes with the territory of being  girls play in the program and you know and we should have a little rewarding ahead of time about this but let me just start with some questions the status of the rape kit with milton is what the aligned so those girls who go to school and how many girls from the last year i think there was between fourteen and sixteen so pretty similar numbers to what we're talking about this year i don't think two should i  question if we should had a team last year hockey league would expect us to follow the south burlington schedule you know the uniforms or whatnot there's a there's a lot of choices there you know you can wear want to home want to way you can go with a brand new uniform racial burlington was we could still have our own team that year i don't feel we can have our own team machine i don't i don't believe that that for safety reasons we can feel the team dangerous game and we were flirting with you know last year we were flirting we were we were on the pitch and when you look at on wednesday morning thirteen kids who are interested in a e who have played before of those eight three started with us it's my recommendation to the board that we can walk to keep the sport if the choice is not to go up my recommendation is we for this year we fold are our hockey team i'm a numbers guy so you're looking at nine three lines to get nine they're going to put two sets of defensemen two ones there so that's thirteen and then mo i'm a little concerned about the ability of the inexperienced players to develop skills now i know i understand perspective that you know you and george but differ i'm just a little concerned that you know how we're going to be for the next year if we do this is a one year bridge going to you know is next year going to be that which different are we going to or those players that are playing for the first time this year who are probably going to just sit the bench almost all the time i don't know what that translates into in terms of practices i mean i was i was a benchwarmer in high anything hockey hockey is very violent in its you know if you don't if you know skate well you know if you can if you're not used to looking around the ice and seeing someone coming you can get neils and get hurt so this is you know this is a tough one i mean i i do you know feel for the girls and say that the opportunity to get  just because it's so fast not occur with the coaching staff i didn't i didn't consult the coach i saw the number and it was a statement decision for me having spent fifteen  i'm hearing a lot of people saying that girls will get ice time games if you look at every first female mansfield sport i'm assuming every other school or city sport there are places that do not play this is not an issue that is just hockey basketball soccer lacrosse football players that do not play so i don't think we should be making a farce of the sport decision based on their might be cancer won't play because that's just the norm that is everywhere as the sport i understand it's a little different because there is no g b option but maybe we can try to have a club sport my point is like throwing kids into a high school varsity sport they've  because of safety and some of that sound like from previous experience here last year playing with other division two schools talking about co opting with a division one school is it possible to get a waiver  lot of different opinions and thoughts around safety and certainly you know concussions can be life altering permanently so i do worry about the safety issue but here we are we guard less of the process and what one thing th jumps out at me is that there is a great opportunity out of this to makes something different but i'm concerned because there seems to be some feelings about identity and emotional parts that may actually be inadvertently poisoning the waters and what could be a successful venture so who where ever this goes i mean that's going to take a lot of skill a lot of finesse and it's going to take a lot from the team players who decide to be part of the team to make this a a one team one mission versus factions that could end up in even more injuries because of carelessness or emotions so i'm a little concerned about how that would get problem with it is the way it was done and listening to the girls who are on the team speak tonight i think that the fact that it wasn't known until basically thirty six to have the first two whites who by the end of the people are going to be exhaust every if you're given the ideas to beat them if you want to use everyone equally  and use the third one in this you know in the same way so that you're using all you know thirteen fourteen players then if that isn't as much in the show but if that's the case if you're trying to make it if then i understand you know the safety issues but i just you know i mean there's been so much discussion lately about head injuries in sports football hockey those are two big stories here you know i understand the whole issue of kids wanting to be safe i also understand kids want to play equal time during games and i'm not trying to tell people how to coach but if you don't have all the players involved actresses in the inexperienced players you're never going to get better and then you're left in the same situation you can continue the you know the safety issue is very important to me but you know well sometimes things sound logical but aren't necessarily true so be sure whether inexperienced players have more head injuries in experienced players i don't know the data and i doubt that anybody in this room does i mean i would only doubt if i could we're going to talk about this tonight but you know i see a whole lot of really experienced twenty players as they move up who had to walk past the new players to get concussions you know very experienced hockey players get concussions all the time both from the girl side and the boys so but i do so i really don't know whether it's true that having more inexperienced players increases the risk to the kids or not and i certainly would like to know that because that is the driving force for the decision instance i'm in favor of table to get through also but for a different reason i think that what needed to happen is that the teams and the athletic directors needed to come here is the unified front saying this is our plan this is what we want it's going to feel like now whatever decision we make we're forcing something one way or another that the team is not unanimous what support people are not unanimous about and that really bothers me because then it's it just doesn't feel like it's something that they want almost everything else that we've supported in terms of athletics has come from the ground up we wanted this and that it ministration has signed on for it and then we basically evaluated it and said yea or nay on that point but this just doesn't feel right at this point but i was wondering if i could understand what is the deadline for this decision to be made and what's striking is the deadline season starts november twenty sixth the arrangements that have to be made to make it work the t hall special meeting night i understand that sports is not the be all the end all but this is engender a lot of concern for a lot of constituencies and i'd like to see it dissolved in a way that these people happier rather than unhappy and long lasting problems so my suggestion would be highly joined the suggestion table it but i would suggest we try to table it for a limited period of time because there will certainly be some point at which there is a students injuring themselves be it head injuries or skating you know injury from being on the ice too long i'm more than willing to do to sit and talk to people about it but it's and it's a straight up for thing for me i just didn't have an opportunity i think if we go to a more clever decision making process to develop a little bit more of a process going forward and being to the board i don't know how we decide it isn't often that off base is what teams go for one don't i just remember the football team having years of club status years years years until they had to jump over multiple on an annual basis it doesn't seem fair to the players or to stand in general and having something that comes out of this is this is have evaluated so somebody like doesn't have to go on a gut feeling i think we have to make this decision on how the process is going to be and then develop something that we can refer to i understand i think where might this coming and felt want to micro manage i really don't my question would be for the eight returning players if you have a choice of playing the south burlington or that's the question for them it's not even our question it's what do they want do they want to play the sport i think the young ladies who spoke here tonight work streatley out and conor i appreciate your comments and we heard both sides from these two students and that's the number for me is you know it's playing the sport important enough for you that you're willing to to travel to another school or would you just rather not  so my question is the deadline and this is also a time like press and why are we just hearing about this now why didn't we hear about this a month ago that's of solid question george and i didn't we didn't get the numbers a solid number to friday you know enough time to apologise for that already but the option now the discussion now is co op order or not if if we this is a recommendation for you to make the decision on so i'm just going to talk of the first person i found out about this last week in the room there was a time recommendation based on the numbers that he shared with me there are some additional kids or have signed up i think he's a rule them here at least this is my understanding they don't have a lot of experience is that one we have a viable team where kids can play participated activity safely and that the program hopefully will be sustainable over t would think in one of the other new kids we would act as a goalie so that left us a skater spot on the ice trying to rotate through i would hope maybe by the middle of the year some of the newer skaters might be getting some type of at least for the first you know middle of january time period you're talking eight kids no injuries no illnesses no vacation trying to play in a game and i don't know the concussion r and and that that's going to affect the number as well you may have fifteen kids on paper but you know i would i'm pretty sure that the coaches are going to really evaluate players and make sure they can get out there and be safe and so i think that's going to affect fuel for all number as well but i don't want the board to think is that in any way this was a way to tour to shove this through or under the cover of night i mean this really was something that just popped up and it was time sensitive and so on the cold judy and they said you know this is something can we get this on the agenda so we can so we can talk about it  know i'm i'm i got it i get a feeling that in the end i would favor that but the but i really am concerned that decisions that are made in a way and this is not a of the timetable critical decisions that are made in a way that people feel they haven't been consulted and people who really feel who really should be consulted that those are destined to  to to breed dissatisfaction even if they're very good decisions and very well intended decisions and i don't know under parliamentary procedure whether this is proper because i'm loath to vote against that motion but what i was hoping to do was to move the table this were for a very short period of time until a special meeting that would be convened by the chair in consultation with with with the superintendent sue still allow us to make a timely decision but to allow for consultation and the collection of data in the meantime and i don't know in a parliamentary procedure whether that would take precedence but that would be the motion that i was hoping to have considered by this forward and then if that fails then i'd be prepared to table with those provisions that this be tabled until a special meeting to be can be by the board chair in consultation with the superintendent as soon as practical to allow for allow this decision to be made but also to op and i know what i guess that i look at the soft stuff but i just figured just like with michael saying that when you go into these things that are forced people are unhappy about the vision but that's a recipe for disaster so if it turns out that two thirds three quarters almost all of the existing group and the coach decides coaches decide that yeah we can make this work that's that's going to really help me out the i will vote if if i'm able to attend that i will vote to support the ministrations recommendation not a certainty but an overwhelming likelihood because the argument that player safety has to it's a very compelling argument and i don't think that we're going to find the kind of data in terms of who gets injured and who doesn't that really ships that ground because i don't think there should be a presumption that there has to be data that the concussions fall in the in the inexperience category if you found they did that data would be compelling but in the absence of the data the administration has to make has to make a recommendation and i believe i would i would support that based on what i've heard i just think that these decisions work much better if there's consultation and if the consultation leads the administration to change its mind or there's other data present the board i would consider that i don't want people to epicenter to check out the exhibit on race which sure some of you see in the paper as well as get a little bit of a walking history of the rosewater the seniors on that day don't come to school it's sort of our da potential stop snowing or did you have testing on line it was handled very well by the high school on the they did not have enough computers to have all of the students do their testing once so when i heard that half of our grid was going to be doing testing on the other half and later that day i of cringed but they did a really good job juggling with sports and early dismissals and making sure everyone including the tech kids were able to participate in the new caps tuesday we have the math caps that we will be finishing i want to thank mr weston for giving the incentive of being able to be exempt from your final exam if you do extremely well on your kneecaps and also maintain high grades throughout the year in certain classes such as english  math i can tell a lot of kids are kind of gunning for that and i'm sure it helps the numbers across the board as a junior i'm getting ready for the peer cities next week sophomores are taking the plan freshman are going  k and a lot messier friends are bragging they have the day off and then we have the two days off to kind of let us recharge our batteries after the testing sports are getting really excited playoffs and the seasons are winding down i know there is a lot of school sport for our boys soccer team who have been extremely sad successful this and they had a game last night under the lights in essex it was this it was us it was ok and we won three did nothing the so it was a very fun sports season fair on even the teams that are not as successful i'm there still having fun i've even our football program they do once i give them so much credit for their spirit because is their record is not as good as a lot of teams and vision won but the boys just love to play football and it's really cool to see their hard work the students i think are finally in the full swing it's more rigorous than probably anybody in the organization and as it should be so what i've provided you with is by twelve thirteen goals that i went over had some discussions with the executive committee made some adjustments in that they improved and being in september i want to know people have questions comments that i could try to answer watch outside of the cafeteria and love it and kids after school since all the classrooms are locked up actually gets to do work there are after school districts i just want to thank the ministration for putting those new aspects to student efficient way to support staff categorized ensure staff produce contract the programs that we were doing gave some feedback and try to work as hadley kids to get the communities more involved in healthy lifestyles healthy choices for students and increasing some of the healthy options and opportunities for kids in the local communities that a program started about nine hundred ninety eight it was it was run through new directions green zone for a number of years the state funded part of it for part of that time and title four did as well and literally all that money has dried up over the last you know three years  o we've been forced to cut back on some of those positions so first title four did which was part of the consolidated federal grant it's been eliminated and then the state and i for the purpose of these grants are supposed to be that you build your own capacity and he did in the bet it in your program and that was part of the purpose of the community partnership and burps work and so we have embedded some of that work into our curriculum and into our programs the way that we've tried to deal with it at the middle schools in the high school from the school actually has a little bit more is through guidance and through some additional school social worker time and you know i'm sure it's a subject that is probably going to come up during  an indictment on anyone so please don't take it as such so you say that right out front the legislator looked at it and really the big discussion around whether you agree with it or not was the effectiveness of the program so i think that's a  fitted and then trying to evaluate the effectiveness of the subjectively as we can so that's a discussion will you know we're going to be having during this budget season but i just wanted  know we really didn't find out about that game grant you know the timing is never works you so you're trying to budget without knowing the parts of your revenue so  very mother of five children in the m m u district i want to thank the administration of brown for middle school for the amazing creative event the school participated in last friday october i'm not there your browser participate in the world cardboard challenge is an extension of a short film about a boy's imagination and a cardboard the week leading up to the challenge was filled with kneecap testing first students and there were scheduling challenges for teachers the speed of the changes are student center teams through be three students laughing learning dejan and playing together from the golf course the vending machine the five foot artistic animals sculptures in the active tossing throwing rolling games creativity panel and then she wanted to thank principal kevin hamilton teacher willie and all the cast and sisters for their willingness to pull this event together it was agree example issue but it was for us with the same last name but not their student and you know that mistakes happen but they brought up whether or not we're our first step in dealing with disciplinary issues is like the involved messages or i've talk after some great