you find it let me ask you a question about the one nine hundred eighty nine participation in the pro democracy movement from the b i a says you probably read this more times than i have even this assuming the ferocity of his claim so they say ok we'll give you the truth of the claim that he was detained following the one nine hundred eighty nine participation and that would be for five months then they say there is no indication that he had any further problems well or that he was persecuted in the p r c in light of his political views during the several years he continued to live in his homeland before coming to the united states on this record he has not established a well founded fear of persecution so i translate that to mean even if we assume that he showed past persecution because he lives there without any once for a few years there's no probability of future persecution so past yes but future no he loses your answer to that is why what you're actually that's a poor student of a course on the part of the it please the court john smiley from the department of justice here on behalf of the attorney general substantial evidence in this case supports the denial of asylum as well as they at first credibility finding that was made by the immigration court in january oh true and he was represented by counsel throughout this time in addition at the hearing mr lew testified that has asylum application and accompany claim based on the background information in the country reports that china does not use force or compulsion to obtain the consent of its inhabitants to undergo population control practice we have a case that in general says ashcroft i'm sure you're familiar with it  that a country report can give you a background information but it can't be used to impeach just the specific testimony of an applicant petitioner so it's seems on the face of it that that was in the state well i believe you're the state report state department report seem to indicate that force was never used with respect to vasectomy or abortions the simply sanctions are used so he's using that control report to impeach the individual test of testimony in jennings seems to say you can't do that well but i think the judge will also found that not only the country report but the record and the lack of evidence to show that he was forced to have a vasectomy led to the adverse credibility  problems or was persecuted and that you know i have to tell you that's it's mind boggling to me that you can minimize and i'm not criticizing you personally but you can minimize a five month detention and say well all they did was detained him for five months they didn't beat him up but that's five months the tension because of political pain i mean on the face of it doesn't that compel the conclusion that that's persecution well your honor i'm not attempting to hundred three for four months and he had no problems when he was there big country a lot of people that's right and it's still a big country with a lot of people so if you were to return flocking somebody you have for five months if that happened in the united states for example or any of the other western civilization states and people go crazy locking up somebody for five months and sort of trying to hear that that's not some kind of persecution is very difficult for me and then he's entitled to a presumption and they don't nobody seems to cope with the presumption in his favor and that's why we give the silence of people who that to whom that happens for political reasons somebody believes in a different form of government they lock him up that's political prisoner stuff that's really what asylum was a very well again on the issue of whether this was for a political reason the immigration judge found the evidence indicated that the demonstration one thousand nine hundred eighty nine was primarily by students i don't understand that distinction if a student makes makes a stink about something as compared to somebody this country entirely for economic motives if we had been forcibly sterilized fourteen years before his arrival that's enough now i don't agree with my not there's nothing in total in the law that suggests that would be enough effort of but as i understand he described to me the fact of forced sterilization a few years you know period well with us or you might have some other motivation for coming to this country sterilization or has been persecuted for resisting coercive population control shall be deemed to have been persecuted on account of political opinion right however the next question is vasectomy they would have done harm to the house and he partially shredded the door and the windows and towns and that's also supported in the country reports that that's what they do if you don't conform to the coercive family population policy in china again if he was persecuted in the past on account of those vasectomy which the judge does not find it still would not a stop loss but there was a well founded fear of persecution on