good evening everyone welcome to the selectmen meaning on tuesday november twenty fifth already the agenda seven p m over meeting with citizens input topics not reasonably anticipated by the chair forty eight hours in advance of the meeting seven o five selections update seven fifteen continue public hearing fusion five alleged violations alteration of premises improper storage of alcohol it's cetera seven thirty five or simmons and randy scholars for a classification hearing at eight forty my bill gain my a super bowl request for fee rate waiver eight fifty billion the town hall project to approve contracts to hire lerner lead and cartels for architect design and the vertex companies incorporated for o p m at nine o'clock the board will vote to declare the fire station and market street surplus properties at nine ten the board will delay it will discuss delaying or imposing sanctions on liquor violations for saga hibachi steak house showcase cinema deluxe tab the leno seven pm any citizens input at this time seeing none will go to the slackness update just want to start off by wishing everyone a very happy thanksgiving and safe travels if you are traveling on a just want to caution everyone out there there still seems to be a problem on south st i understand there was an accident earlier fortunately no one was injured so i guess the cleanup on that continues so there is a detour through town around  c student athletes because not just football team has grown last year we started this year the second here offered complimentary tickets that we purchased in turkey for the veterans so we had about twice as many as we had last year it's grown and it was it was nice to see the football players volleyball players wrestlers boys and girls come up to the past saturday so and thank you i'll put something in the paper to thank the donors but there was quite a few people that stepped up with donations jenny thank you don't see the council on aging has received a grant from the aging and the national council on aging and this is to provide funds for the aging mastery program in regard to financial management so go through a couple of the information items in our packet we have another notice for comcast x finity announcing price adjustments we have a notice from the wrentham planning board regarding public hearing for a special climate concerning such a site plan approval application and we have two items of information from the planning board regarding special permit applications for accessory apartments to us two lane and ten revere drive be having presentation by the mass d o t so i just wanted to let people know that there was going to be further information presented by the nasty o t at their meeting that's quite an end the last meeting the recreation department announced that they were going to be doing something this friday lighting of the moment anyone remember the details of that how it works but it was the other was it was a good suggestion actually so there'd be some central feeder or some place to feed the information who would determine if yes host where the yes ok it will probably come through our office and ok we can open the hearing and then hold off discussion for a period of time  yeah why not why don't we open the public hearing then we can take a break for legal notice notice is here by given that the board of selectmen has continued a public hearing from tuesday november eighteenth two thousand and fourteen at seven fifteen p m to november twenty five two thousand and fourteen at seven fifteen p m in the foxboro high school media center one twenty south street products from mass pursuant to its licensing authority in accordance with massachusetts general laws annotated chapter one thirty eight sections twenty three sixty four and sixty seven in all amendments there to the purpose of the hearing will be to review and discuss information concerning alleged violations of chapter one thirty eight that occurred at the end as corporation right so now that we've opened the hearing why don't we take a break for a couple minutes and see if anyone makes their way here ok all right frank can you put us on hold for a couple minutes please thank you frank ok we'll get back to our continued public hearing for fusion five this is regarding alleged violations alteration of promise improper storage of alcohol  chief could you come forward and present us with the information on this are we expecting sergeant you know i don't believe such it was asked to be here tonight because we received word that there was a construction project going on at the america's best value when at that faulty area that was at one confines of chapter one thirty eight in terms of their license as a result of his investigation he took photographs and brought forward to the board as part of our business process the report that was filed with the boy and i believe it originally came to the attention of the tao when the building commissioner was required to go and do inspections as part of the rebuilding dust another building debris from the project that was going on around it which i believe is a violation of chapter one thirty eight especially with the bar itself was no longer in operation give us an information on your inspection also good evening but you will background the applicant applied for a building permit to demolish the fusion five night club and construct twelve new dwelling units in the hope in the motel just to confirm it yes the bar was still there and basically that was the extent of that inspection was specific to determine whether the bar was still there it was not in operation at the time because it wasn't there a demolition boy if the bar was still being going to be left operational that he would need to go for an alteration of premises permit and since we didn't have a plan that area that he was to should contact oh i think the demolition started early july you know so it's ongoing that the construction right now is just that we just did rough inspection it's a couple weeks ago so it's being sheet rock right now but they have quite a ways to go towards iraq and say ok you know with that alteration premises application have to come have to be submitted prior to with the rules and regulations of the town of foxborough and i'm sure the state if you're doing any altering to the area that fly since but the liquor license that's called an alteration premises and you supposed to come you supposed to submit an application for that so that it can be approved because that that is part of your license so any time the premises is change that actually changes your license and was that  t with some minor surgery and so i appreciate that accommodation and the scheduling and the the situation here ladies and gentlemen is that the patel's realize that they needed to do an alteration of license but because they were going small or that they were no women aiding the lounge space they thought that they would do it you know when they came in that they would have to come in alteration they would have to have the plan submitted it would have to go to the p c c for approval but they thought that it would come when they were ready you know what they expected to be later this this year later  n twenty fourteen and they are now prepared they have the architectural plans i have them with me tonight for the board so it it's a matter of timing and that it wasn't an intentional disregard of the the regulations of the board of selectmen or the laws and the rules and regulations of the e v c see what the of twenty fifteen and they are looking to upgrade the hotel significantly and to get what's called in the hotel industry a new flag you know location for hotel trains and they're looking for something a hotel chain hotel franchise that would be more appropriate the problem that they run into up until now was you know until now the hotel has had forty nine rooms in the that cut off from our practicality standpoint based upon the franchise fees and the rules and regulations of the hotel industry is that fifty rooms is is the breakeven so what they found was that you know from a business model standpoint that it made sense to take space that hotel rooms in the community it's going to be a upgrade of the you know of the premises they're putting some significant investment into the hotel renovations i was i was actually there today   so the they're hoping to have those hotel rooms open just as soon as national grid finishes the major transformer and electrical upgrades that are going to be here and according to the b c c rules they misunderstood those rules they thought they could do it you know concurrent with the you know the expansion of the the the application for the alteration drafted for about a month now i had spoken with ms herman and the suggestion was that we had to come before to entertain it i'm prepared to fly all of the application for alteration of license by next monday at the latest so i just want you to understand that there really is no bad will and no no no intention to disregard on the part of the of the patel family with respect to the  the issue of the the liquor that was stored in it was actually in a storage closet this this project has been more comprehensive and messier than they expected the liquor was not properly protected as it should have been and it will be destroyed it has to be destroyed at this point and it has to be destroyed under the supervision of an a b c c inspector according to their rules and regulations so what my expectation would be is that when the  assuming that the board feels appropriate to know all to the license the patel's intend to him and the the space at the a b c c inspector will have to come to inspect the premises anyway in order to determine that the fire exits are appropriate and the bar is appropriate and everything is clean and  meets with with their with their standards the liquor is in the same closet where it was when the when the officer took the photographs and my intention would be that same a b c inspector would be able to witness the destruction and inventory the bottles that he he or she oversees at that same area the office the rest firms and the the red asterix just so you see what they are are the fire exits and so there is no change you know being made to the fire exits i i have no in terms of number or or location of the fire exits are the same so really the the area that is look looking at this drawing these are the new hotel rooms along this side and that used to be the lounge space so this you know this hotel a calculation figure in terms of what's allowed by square footage but then in reality because of the restroom count the maximum allowed occupancy  one hundred needy so the the occupancy will be about half actually a little less than half of what it was you know in terms of the the bar space thank you so this whole company  this whole company multi nation of the alteration is a same mantra i just wanted to give the board some background so that you know in essence there patel family is here to to fall on their sword in terms of the timing of that they realize that the the alteration should have been filed first but i want the board to understand that there is no ill will and that it will be immediately filed there is  there is no intent unlike some other situations in town there's no intent of this being a pocketed license there is every intention that the hotel  for the patel family and for foxboro come next in the middle of next year exactly yet what we're going to what the the final plan is going to be but fell will be the manager of record and she will continue to be the primary person supervising  of supervising the bartender you know i i would also add to the board that to my knowledge this location you know has never had a violation in terms again normally they do their best to you know comply with the rules and that's why we're here tonight and that's why you know we'll be filing the alteration properly when you into superior contraction be included he told me in well in the hotel rooms within a few weeks iran the first of the year my client informs me so i think realistically you know if i submit an alteration application to you monday let's say you know again we're dealing with holidays but let's say we have or you know i hearing sometime in december i'm not sure where in terms of the u s schedule with the holidays in the advertising and then has to go to the p c c for approval that takes that i've seen that take six to eight weeks sometimes this is actually going to be to the to the licensees detrimental in that they're going to be ready for occupancy i think before the c is going to have everything done just to correct a mistake like the fusion was before us in two thousand and twelve i wasn't aware of that and in previous years we can only go back three years my client correct a man who was not aware of that i'm sorry i'm still a little confused on the terms you use it for manager active manager a manager of record in the correspondence that we got from officer noonan mr patel said it was a business decision for mrs patel to have her name on it as manager but basically he says that he runs the operation he makes the purchase orders he makes the business decisions and he maintains the staff so if there can be some clarification mis sync with sequencing when you're putting the plans into the building department and you plan to put them into here but when you were asked if you notified the selectmen the office of the new plans you said to the officer that  again they realized that an alteration needed to be filed they didn't have the on the architectural plan you know done yet i was actually it was only after the officers inspection and the patel family hiring me that i worked with the architect to make sure that that we had the proper calculations for occupancy that they had construction they think this is the last question it's more of the board it seems like we have a situation where we have a valid license because a license is valid but we haven't uninhabitable and occupy a bull premises so there's a little bit of a mix match here if  if the license remains and it cannot be used versus a license remained and it can be used because right now you can use your license but it's a mess over there so i guess it's more of a question of the board how do we address second that i have not addressed it before i think it would come under just whenever there is like a change in alteration of premises for example when the ninety nine did their work they were closed down for a period of time you know they came before us got the  where the other status which had applied in is this plans and there's a process kind of backwards on this just a question on maybe built into this one is construction going to be completed and when sort of a target occupancy will be ready before the altered license will be ready that's that's what i was trying to say before when i mentioned the timeline of you know the public hearing here in the d c approval process and they will be ready to go before the license will be ready to go so the hotel would be operating without a license it would not be a bar there would be no bar until the b c c and this board approves the regulations violations he lists chain premises are just bribed in license without prior written approval of the local licensing authority that's what it's like to keep premises clean and sanitary permitting  the license premise by storing drinks in unsanitary manna they have to disclose all persons who have a direct or indirect beneficial interest in the license and having an absentee manager potential violations of facts for rules and regulations changing the premises as described in the license without prior written approval of the local licensing authority and naming an absentee manager on the license so i think those are things that we have to be considering with all due process was we needed to appear before this board we needed to address the board's concerns and that's what you know we're trying to do in terms of their being you know on the one thing that stood out you know from what you just read from that memo is the you know is the undisclosed you know ownership interest the the ownership interest is is completely transparent it's the it's the corporation it's d b a fusion five the it is a you know a family owned corporation is fallin vic's father and the two of them are the stockholders of the corporation i believe that his been you know completely disclosed to the board in all prior applications in in materials that have ever been submitted to the present and whether or not you know she was the actual manager as compared to mr patel i suspect that's listed on the having an absentee manager that's a separate thing this is this is the failure to disclose all persons who have a direct or indirect beneficial interest in the license the beneficial interest in the license is the corporation so if mr de luca has some still has some concerns about the stock ownership of the corporation after i've addressed the board i'll be i'll be happy to to you know provide him is to do it i'll be happy to provide the board if you know one who you know hold this open with the shares of you know the shares of stock you know showing that the you know you know the corporation you know is own but there is no hidden interest there's no you know hidden ownership it's the stock is owned by the family the of process here so what i'm thinking at this point in time because of the many questions that we have is should we consider continuing this hearing until we can have either attorney to look at or another do you want to say wait a if you don't mind i just i still i still think we have a open issue with an act of license oh yeah there should be it should be addressed immediately you know sooner rather than later david's comment there mr holmes question the license is specific to the lounge space so there is no alcohol service period that is going on right now with the hotel authority pursuant to mass general was chapter one five the section one eighty one in section one eighty three a in chapter one thirty six section four town of foxborough revised general by laws adequate five section six and also stating new rules and regulations we will conduct a public hearing on tuesday nov twenty fifth at two two thousand and fourteen beginning at seven thirty five p m in the five zero high school media center to review the applications submitted m p s l l c for the one direction concert this event is proposed for gillette stadium application for this event is on file at the office of selectmen all interested parties are welcome to attend thank you essentially the same show that we had three times this past august and it's a live nation show again so they'll be live nation as the promoter and they'll be handling the production of this event hand in hand with craft entertainment and productions we are requesting a great time of five thirty p m and primary start time of seven p m as of right now we don't anticipate any opening acts it should just be the headline acts to be in the ticket prices start at forty six fifty and they go right up to one hundred fifteen dollars be requesting the existing stadium curfew of eleven fifteen p m so with this show we've seen a definite drop in the demand for this act to do three shows last year right now it's not it's probably right around thirty two thousand and we anticipate about forty two thousand so while they have a very similar production set up to last year there's no ga seating all of the seating of reserved they have a very extensive catwalk in a b stage and it goes out to about the fifty yard line and i have some pyro so it's essentially the same set up but we aren't into supporting as big of a crowd but that being said we don't plan on rolling into any additional dates we're going to be using the same staging we're going to be operating the pant pick up and drop off location like we have for shows with this specific demographic we approved it last year  that we offer two separate locations one from both the north and the south and we plan on doing that again for this show and thankfully this is a relatively easy event to monitor from a public safety standpoint there are no significant issues last year  allow taxis to command they can drop off and then they sit in one of the parking lots until the end and then take out so they're going to do that otherwise that you know the police chief our  chief really didn't anticipate the fire is going to be at a level five from a standpoint of the number of people and you know i thought it was innovative in the sense that they're going to continue the email blast they have  event bullet point so a lot of time time you know how to streamline your cd and entry things to be cognizant of to sort of keep that process moving as well possible and then basically the board then  you know voted unanimously that that's recommend to you for the top prove the application and again as is standard stuff subject to the stadium management agreeing to provide the facilities the expenditures necessary to implement a public safety plan as required by the town mis for we'll certainly continue to prepare for that an event that's shifted but it's interesting because we had sort of originally thought that this is very similar to a taylor swift demographic and just in comparison the data from the two different events you know she tends to have a much broader scope in the high twenty's that she draws whereas one direction is still very very young and for the most part minors with the parents better and again i would recommend that we try to continue the taxi program as it does take people caps away from the north street neighborhoods because they have access to be on the taxis and limos idling as a matter of fact we had a small meeting in in regard to this last week and you're using the program for the taxi to pick  up and drop out what i'd like to see is that incorporate in all the events not just not just this event because there's a real problem on no street and it's taxis and limos idling you know dropping off picking then waiting before for the concerts to conclude so if the taxi pick up in a ling up that the stadium has been successful i'd like to incorporate that the requirements of all of the concerts just to keep north street safe or in addition i would like to see those signs that on north street that says no idling are no pick up  requirement i'm going to ask for that requirement for the kenny chesney one and also we've actually found that it's been a really successful program has achieved and mentioned so it is absolutely our intention to operate that for all of our concerts there's a little bit of a capacity issue with our parking lots with the football games obviously it's just a different capacity and the facility itself but for all of our concerts moving forward if north if public safety is comfortable with it we plan on operating that taxi service they football see the football events that's a that's a totally different animal because yes these people who are used to the routine you know but everybody knows where they're going they're still a lot of back up on north street but i think the concerts with the dropping off and with limos and taxis that's that's a real problem for north st i really would like to see that addressed for all future future events and then we can also deal with with the problem on north street during the game days you know so we did operate that the taxi service for all four of our our four later shows last summer and like i said we have and continue to use it moving forward looking for anything that takes place outside the stadium specially the north through the towns responsibility not the stadium michael good point i was going to bring that up because i was i attended that meeting and it's nice you know this is the catalyst to discuss it and it's kind of not related to the way that you run your operation the craft on the inside of the stadium but i'm seeing in it and it's cyclic and he gets better some years and it gets worse some years but i'll be frank with the it's the residents of that area that are pulling people and often or street for the money to park on their yards it's time and time again so you know this is directed under this application but at some point and i'll say it loud and clear there's going to be an accident out there with the kid because his taxi is out there and everybody that wants to park on north street or any of the side streets pulling people into park and it showed up a few years ago it got better it's worse now and i'm getting a lot of correspondence in when people can't drive down or street because it's blocked you know and that's part of the program they're all we're trying to figure out but if it's blocked to the detriment of the people that are not parking to the benefit of the people out of pulling people in getting a lot of money for it we've got to revisit it in a this is the catalyst for it it's not a concert issue and it's not necessarily a stadium issue it's a resident issue so if for those that were on the board a few years ago you know we when we talked about getting permits and stickers for cars in i don't know what the solution is but i think in geneva right we had a small meeting and i think there's going to be a few more meetings to figure it out it's going to require the police the fire the residents the craft organization and some common sense because i think it's time to say zero at this point because again it's being taken you know you know because barry jokes and he's driving down he's getting waved in and he's got a number i'm getting waved him and i'm a selectman and i just keep driving saying this is asinine i'm sorry but it is so i get it this is a good opportunity to bring it up and i can hope i was actually gonna put this on the agenda at the last meeting but it got kind of sad so much other stuff going on  eighty one in section one eighty three a in chapter one thirty six section four town of foxborough revised general bylaws five section six and also stadium rules and regulations will conduct a public hearing on tuesday november twenty fifth two thousand and fourteen beginning at seven forty five p m in the foxboro high school media center to review the application submitted by n p see for the kenny chesney in jason concerts this event is proposed for gillette stadium application for this event is on file at the office of selectmen all interested parties are welcome to attend thank you so jumping right in you can and that won't shift what we do anticipate is having another act added to the bill most likely the battle of the winner or a significantly smaller act it wouldn't shift that start time so we're asking for a five p m start time but you may see another artist get added on a little bit closer to the date that ticket prices range from fifty nine fifty to two hundred sixty five dollars and we're also simply requesting the existing stadium curfew of eleven fifteen p m wen about fifty two thousand people for each day and the this event in the past has been has presented a very unique set of operational challenges from a public safety standpoint and we certainly are aware of and we work very closely with the town to improve year and year out and make this a better event for patients a better for the town at this point we really feel that we've got all the existing infrastructure in place to address the concerns of the issues that we know will never fully come with this event we hold our parking lots and our gates and we open them at public safety officials discretion we have a very extensive network of communication that we launched about three days before this event that includes radio public service announcements to direct e mail blasts to all of the concert fires we use our partners and patriotism newsletter which is new this year and is a direct ed show so four years ago this show would begin at three thirty or four o'clock it's been shortened by about an hour and a half now we don't allow prints at home tickets we do have strict ticket entry policy for each of our parking lots alone and that the chiefs request we no longer allowed to get faster printed home for this event so hard copy take it on take it stock is required to get into the parking lots we can you know we're going to continue with all of our public safety initiatives with respect to transporting alcohol or any beverages between lots limiting the amount of space for tailgates to set up making sure that they remain small gatherings and they don't get they don't reach any sort of capacity we're going to reduce the amount of hawkers that we have  and alcohol sales we will shut it off as soon as the chiefs deem it appropriate and we're going to continue also with our with making sure that all of our patients are screened thoroughly as they enter the stadium and we've where using s right now we used a new process on sunday with quite honestly with some mixed results but hopefully by august when these events take place we'll have the most thorough in the swift describing process in a lea through thank you i guess we met and reviewed the event here first i just wanted to comment on just this point about the gates you know in terms of his there had been a bit of an issue with the football  games in terms of the amount of time that it took and again you've got seventy thousand people are trying to go through you know in essence for gates i will attest to the fact that i was up there last weekend and that it was every gate was open and i was there the weekend before and not that they weren't open but does it seem longer so i think that you know that was you know starting to you know be addressed and  respected by bill casper and and the town so from a sound perspective i don't see an issue just it going through the issue that obviously the  know that is something that has been focused on and the chief will talk about it he says he's got a good plan he's working with the state police who coordinate that side of the law to have more presence bicycle presence by the state police and and to work on that area from a public safety or from a public health standpoint the community have the the pump truck there again so that you know there won't be any public health issues in terms of the delayed opening and we all live with that in the sense that you delay and delay and then the town just starts to back off a certain areas of town i was relayed information from a resident at the corner of route one forty in one fifteen after last year's concert and have been in email contact with him he recontacted me one of the word got out that there was going to be another one and i have coordinated a talk with the chief about that when there is going to be a presence an officer presence at that intersection to help to coordinate any activity that might happen there and i guess my last point  t the e mail blast was also happy to hear and i'm not saying that i've seen it in the benefit or or witnessed it myself because i'm not as technologically advanced i guess as most some people but the stadium now has an app that they put out there that assists that attendees and terms of act as things are going on while inside the stadium right down to the ability to recommend that to the board for your approval of the two concerts that you would approve and again and subject to the chiefs feeling comfortable that they have the total resources that they need i know the chief probably talk about it he has an extensive tests that plan for the potential amount of bookings that come out of the vents like and based on the facilities and expenditures that you go for your just one question about the board of health destruction i've received some complaints about issues and that sounds very interesting but in terms of when things do get law jammed in the town the complaints from the neighbors are that there are people relieving themselves unfortunately on the property was there any discussion about is there a way to strategically place any porta john units in other areas in the town itself knowing that this happens every single year i brought it up and  allowing their property to benefit the community unfortunately we didn't get as much use there as some neighborhoods could attest to but i think it is something that we have to prepare for a while i'm up here anyway i want to talk about you know the traffic issue because i think one of the key things for the water open e depends on two different traffic flows one is our lifeline which is one know that has to be able to keep movie when that comes to a dead stop there's a ripple effect much like i was seen tonight because of ninety five being blocked that that blocks up mechanic street because people think they can get off and go to one forty to get around where the traffic jam is once they are common is locked up it takes a significant amount of time to free it so with the energy the open e know the locks based not on one forty but also on streets of walpole they're severely impacted i know that the wall chief requested we deliver a document to the stadium  had a preliminary meeting with tim murphy which i gave him the water from wall also but in a way there are public safety partners when we have an event of this nature but the reason that we try and hold the underage drinking and binge drinking in general and as george had noted in his report i know that the captain that's more or less managing these events actually has tried bicycle people that they challenge than others so i think in terms of yes i have recommended it it does take a tremendous amount of effort to have it get pulled off time and time again and although they've but we know that going it will prepare our plans based on our experiences and again thanks to the court from the stadium in our community it should be a great show for those that are there for the music it was wasn't going to be because they wanted a condition they wanted us to condition it and i think we said no on it within and i think then murphy said they were working together and there's a good relationship with them i think the board was hesitant to put one of our condition on one of our permits that room that is dependent on another town fulfilling something of use of this is that we have one still has to work out with that i think from those discussions the police chief in walpole and it was talked about the large because lodges on one side are one in that whole relationship of how things work i think it would they were comfortable that the craft organization was going to do the right thing and work together with it and i think we left it us as we come down to the prime time to determine more specifics about our operational player and i know the state of respect supportive of giving him have the resources to his community because of the challenging it is that i think that's why they just wanted to make sure that we were aware of it and asked was concerned so was to the stadium itself  so this letter is addressed to the town manager at requesting that you let cover the expense of additional walpole officers required for this event so i mean this is a specific request i think it's important that everybody knows that it is a very busy event and i think that the the men and women that work here in foxboro and surrounding communities of done an outstanding job and how they handle that whole event and i think that the biggest thing is that it works for us because we plan really really well and we get the support that we need so we've got to make sure that we continue to get the support necessary so that this event doesn't get out of control and that we are able to do our job so we get to a level five we know that sometimes we might have to change based on the weather to increase certain areas and you would hope that the stadium continues to support us when we need that type of equipment that type of resources to make sure that just doesn't get away from us great thank you and the other comments i brought up previous about the packing packing plan for drop you know direction because of the nature of the audience i think it would we want the taxis to have access to get people off the grounds of back to their hopes of hotel safely intending to have a drop off area of let's say just general citizens it's limited to taxi cab right now that being dropped off at north st and then you know and it's become a problem on our street and then before the event is over these taxis and limos a coming back and idling on us tree waving far so on when i'm asking is there a plan similar to what you have to one direction that you could that any area where around the stadium could be set aside for a taxi limo drop off idling it as it is taxiing  contact was made with the area level services so that people would be knowledgeable about it and i think the result was a concert slashed year we didn't have the same problem with let's say private transit like cabs because they had a way to get on the stadia property pick up fares take them back and then be able to come back quickly the only thing that we want to try and them on the property because it's only going to cause more traffic confusion for everyone well i think we're talking about just cab step would have access to stadium property through park the pathway haven't addressed is what we do with the general drug laws but i think that's generally limited primarily to the one direction concert if i don't  to get in there probably is not restricted to north street is the entire the majority of the streets down there are blocked by police blockades including mackenzie dr hallowell hart well  disruptive of the neighborhood you know in putting children in danger you know so that that's just my concern i'd just like to see plans worked out so that we don't have those one more concern that was addressed to me and it's regarding the opening times of the parking lot it's for these types of events again with all of the satellite parking lots the concern is that they open all at the same time basically regarding fair business practice so i just wanted to let you know that there is that concern with the other parking lot owners of joy that i might see is that their issue has attempt to be rectified taxation in each of the four classes of real property as defined by law the board of selectmen will vote on the adoption of a residential factor and then determine within prescribed limits calculated by the department revenue what percentage of the tax burden is to be borne by each property class the board assesses chief assessor in finance director will provide information in data relevant to making these policy decisions including the physical fiscal effect of the vail alternatives interested persons are encouraged to attend the hearing and will have the right to provide oral and written comments suggestions thank you even the legal would you like to star who would like to start property class is subject to taxation and to decide whether to maintain a split tax rate or eliminate the split or modify the split tax rate by shifting the burden between residential class which is one class or the business classes  which comprise three classes hence determining the analogy classification hearing the context of this is it's required as an annual touchstone along the way to having a town's tax rate set and ultimately true bu apartment revenue once the classification decision is made by this board of the last components of the detailed documentation are sent to the department of revenue for final review assuming everything is in order and we're are looking for it to receive quick approval potentially this week or early next week which will allow us to me our third fourth quarter tax bills out on time by the end of december so my intention was to just discuss the high points that are in the  executive summary in the first three pages or we cover about half of that material and then we'll turn to the board of assessors to make a recommendation and take questions from yourselves and in the board so starting with seven one million or four point three percent and that would bring us to forty one point four million the increase is comprised of two point three six percent for nine hundred thirty four thousand is allowed by proposition two and a half it's not two and a half percent because you can't increase on the excluded debt taxes so that the net is it's a two point three six percent increase for us the good news on excluded debt is that that's actually declining because we're amortizing excluded debt and we're not we haven't added more so that's actually reducing the levy is increasing by sixteen basis points or sixty three thousand so the total tax increase on preexisting property is two point two percent or eight hundred seventy went down isn't good news is that we have had substantial new growth in taxes in growth taxes this year from new property value added assessors that's added another two point one one percent to the tax levy or another eight hundred thirty nine thousand dollars which is significant almost mirroring what the what the proper proposition two and a half allows we do continue to tax to the limits allowed by proposition two and a half for the eighteenth consecutive year however it's important to note that fox borrow has no doubt general overrides have that here in foxboro and i'm not suggesting we should we should start property values go themselves which is the focus year r f y fifteen total taxable property value increased by just over two and a half percent or sixty five and a half million on average single family residential values which includes condominiums increased by just under two percent average commercial and industrial values increased by just about one and a quarter percent and over the last ten years the average residential values increased by a cumulative eighty six hundred dollars or two point two point four percent and is actually going on at the climb if you look at an inflation adjusted  basis decline of about forty nine thousand or sixty percent the average single value property including condominiums has increased in f y fifteen by seventy one hundred dollars to about three hundred sixty seven thousand the average single family property excluding condominiums has increased by three hundred dollars to about just under three hundred eighty thousand dollars residential class of property totals just over seventy five and a half percent of all property value which remains six significantly higher than the two thousand and ten baseline year in the it's important comment on the two thousand and ten baseline year and why that why and where we development the chestnut green development and the the new foxboro lodge comp partner complex were all added fully to the tax rolls and there was also a substantial addition of residential property value at that point time as well so we considered that as we've stated here before that fiscal two thousand and ten i mean all that new property being added combination of business and residential and being at a revaluation year was a good baseline year for the town of fox or i terms of the split of the burden and at that point in time the split of the burden was seventy two point eight percent residential and at this point residential is represents seventy five point five three percent of value so it's increased the residential value has increased its share of the value pai which means that the burden of tax if there was no split tax rate shifts more to residential  remaining twenty four point four seven percent of property values associated with commercial industrial personal property classes and over the last five years as i said residential properties increase from a low of seventy two point eight percent fiscal ten to the total valuation to the current seventy five point five three today the shift results in the trend of more the tax burden falling on residential taxpayers and on business taxpayers again if if there was a single tax rate  however in fiscal two thousand and twelve now the board of selectmen so i can equalize this trend by splitting the tax rate at the recommendation of the board of censors which had the effect of maintaining the tax burden split of two thousand and ten and that's a that's a primary reason for splitting the tax rate is to maintain a a representative share of the burden and there are many other reasons to have it have a split tax rate or not have a split tax rate but the primary reason is to maintain a an equal share of burden that is considered a benchmark here and we've identified that as fiscal two thousand and ten the tax impact all residential taxpayers this fiscal year resulting from this four year trend value shifting away from business tax payers is about one million one hundred thirty thousand in additional tax burden this year if the town reverted to a single tax rate  as far as the tax rate itself assuming no split tax rate the tax rate per thousand in assessed value will increase by five point one percent or seventy seven cents to residential classes and would decrease by seven point eight percent or zero dollars thirty three for a business class a proper since the tax rate so if you want to back to a single tax rate it would increase the tax rate self would increase by over five percent for residential in would decrease by close to a percent for business assuming the current split was maintained because we currently do have a occurrence current split is voted by the board last year the residential tax rate would increase by twenty six cents to fifteen dollars twenty five cents and the business tax rate would also increase by twenty six cents to seventeen dollars and thirty five's that's assuming that the tax rate that maintains the benchmark split that we had in  ten and was actually voted in fiscal twelve we had a split that mirrored that share burden the residential tax rate would increase slightly less by twenty cents and the business tax rate would increase by forty three  i'm giving you three different versions here so assuming a single tax rate the average single family tax bill would increase over seven point two percent or three hundred eighty nine dollars t five thousand seven hundred eighty five dollars the average single family tax excluding condominiums would increase the same seven point two percent four hundred two dollars to five thousand nine hundred eighty five the average commercial tax would decline by six point six six percent or seven hundred dollars to twenty four thousand four thirty seven again with a single tax rate and the average industrial tax rate would a bill would decline just about eight point six percent or nine hundred eighteen dollars to one thousand nine hundred seventy five if we were to if you were to maintain the current split the average single family tax bill would increase by three point seven four  percent about three and a half percent less than if it were a single tax rate or two hundred dollars two hundred two dollars increase the average commercial tax would increase by two point seven six percent almost a percent less than residential a seven hundred twenty two dollars and the average industrial tax would increase by just over half a percent or sixty four basis points or sixty eight dollars assuming the split that maintains the the benchmark share  burden the average single family tax would increase three and a third percent one hundred eighty dollars in the average commercial tax would increase by three point seven seven percent nine hundred eighty six dollars industrial tax would be increased by one point six two percent one hundred seventy four dollars in fiscal fifteen assuming a single tax rate the top twelve taxpayers would comprise fifteen point four percent or six point three eight million of that forty one point four million tax levy and the remaining business tax payers are comprised of thirteen point four percent or just over five and a half million of the tax levy present in the package some area community comparisons because it's good to have have context of where fox stands in relation to our surrounding communities in the best way to do that is to compare to in fiscal years that have been completed in the tax rates and the bills are even set so that's fiscal fourteen last year not the a that we're in so the numbers of the speaking of  will be a comparison you know last year but it's a good proxy because we also are moving up at the same pace foxborough as f y fourteen total valuation of one point six three billion of single family property is sixteen percent less than the f y fourteen average of the fifty area communities fox bros total number of single family parcels four thousand two hundred sixty five is also just over sixteen percent less than the average of the fifteen area communities in for me that's that's really one of the most telling factors as to why our total valuation is is less than our area communities we have fewer parcels to tax it's really on the residential side is really just it's that simple and that and that in a nutshell captures the revenue challenge that town a fox or a has from my perspective are our tax bills are proximate to our neighbors our home values are proximate to the surrounding communities it's just that we have fewer parcels to tax and we have no general overwrites as the majority of our neighbors do  d nine of the fifteen area communities adopted a split tax rate structure last year and it's been the same for the last three years for the area communities so that's residential  shifting the f y fifteen tax burden from residential to business the board of selectmen has this option annually to adjust to adopt a single tax rate or split tax  rate the shifts in in the residential factor can result in up to a sixteen point two percent shift of the tax burden that's certainly not in the range of what the board of assessors is prepared to tonight is one of the smallest splits if you will when you look at the other nine area communities in there on page fourteen and in the packet terms of the residential factor they use the only one that has a more modest and with that just to complete the presentation part of this i want to turn it over to chairman buckley who will speak about the recommendation to the board on the tax rate thank you randi so after we've had a couple of meetings so far on this process and you know i don't be to rehash everything randy said and then you know the history of where we were back to two thousand and twelve where we we recommended a split and the board of selectmen agreed at that time and i think one of the benefits of having these meetings every error is that you know every town is different you know randy talked about the other communities surrounding us who have it you know and i go back to my mother always saying i don't care what the neighbor kid is doing and in reality i don't care what the other communities are doing because fox was unique and you know in this the split allows the communities when there is that disconnect between the business values and the residential to you know adjust them to basically spread the the pain across the board and so what we did this year again you know if it's the goal of the board to ever get back to a single and i've heard i've heard pros and cons on both of that and what we looked at when we were looking at these analysis is that really did was is the one that we chosen would be the one that's on page six in your package and what that is is that's the residential factor zero point nine six three eight seven six and the reason why we looked at that one was if you look in the far right hand column there you can see the average tax bill for residential of will change increased by three point three three percent and the commercial to down from there it will increase by three point seven seven percent so they're both going up and pretty close to you know a same rate that allowed again you know from last year's tax bill you know there is there is an increase in both the commercial and the residential we did not look at the single rate at this time because it is randy said if you did go to a single rate you would have to shift one point one three million dollars on to the backs of the residential properties in the community now think it's just we're not there yet unfortunately the economy isn't is rosy as you may read in some of the national newspapers you know i think residents are struggling businesses struggling but you know i think it's it is getting better you know you can see pick up in the community and the  you know hoping that things get much rosier that we will be able to re evaluate again you'll be able to look at this every year and you know be able to tweak this any way you want either up or down you know closer to the single rate or if it has to go back the other way so you know looking at the values of the businesses in the community again we use an income and expense reports and i don't know how many businesses actually participate in that there is a judgment on the values of those businesses is not as a simple as a residential value where somebody saw your house and your neighbors your neighbor sells their house well that's the value basically for that neighborhood they just set the benchmark where as business is that does not play in that same category so looking at you know the information that we received and professionally that we consultants who advise us on the values of these businesses that's where we are today so that's  unanimous vote of the board to use that point one six three eight seven six residential split if they both to klein businesses would have to the climate a slower rate and i think what the the mound of commercial that we have in the community now that we didn't have and years ago is driving maybe part of that just the values that we haven't and the you know it goes back to town meeting every time you're asiana and say yes well somehow we have to raise the money for that amount of to shift a little bit more of the factor to the businesses and they wouldn't necessarily suggest that there should be a shift in the rate based commercial and fifty dollars fifty five so it's in if you have multiple properties you know it's a multiple of that so it's a value judgment that people can make whether or not they want to go through the time and effort to to prepare that or share that maybe that they think that it's becomes public information i just want to say here you know now it is not public information is under lock and key people see that the board of assessors in chief says i do not see that information and nobody else in the department or the town government so it's not you know yeah it's a big factor to use the the i the information but also we have to do three approaches to value in order to get certified from the department of right so that's like me so you validate the information that you receive exactly so and be going by standards to throughout the country then regional sylvie look at many many different factors to come up with i want values as well so there are many different you know little piece not make it tonight but we had met last week and discussed it and he's on board with this recommendation and it's interesting in the cover letters to talk about maintaining the historic split but i remember when you came in and a few years ago and you were you were kind of torn because you keeping it equal and you know who's represented in what do you know who's using all the services and all that it's a debate that we could talk for hours on but at the time if i recall what happened was there was a real value evaluation of the properties and  remain consistent with the benchmark that we had set it wasn't too far away from it but it was far enough away where it actually rose residential income taxes rose i believe on average like six and a half  way for me to illustrate that is on page fourteen of your presentation you can see in the fourth the last column in red about halfway down you can there where i say we are here that was the the the factor that was chosen last year and what we call them the benchmark is the one that's just below it there we were here so it's kept pretty close just it just wasn't you know back all the way i think that was you know sort of a compromise at the board came to to try to come back to the benchmark or not pull it all the way back ok so when we were here that's the point nine six three eight seven six and what you're recommending now is the point nine six seven not for you know we recommending that to point nine six three eight seven six which is where we were in  two thousand and twelve reflecting the benchmark that we were at in two thousand and ten and last year we were so we were slightly above that in that in the we are here are the point nine six seven three four three and again the reason was that was is because the general increase from both classes is pretty close but for increase yes i mean this billion noticeable on you know the split we're right to illustrate that best when i turn your attention to page seven which is the one with the color draft at the far left of that page you see fiscal two thousand and ten the benchmark year and if you just look at the residential the percentage was seventy two point eight in the two thousand and ten in fall of that percentage across you can see in two thousand and eleven and two thousand and twelve it was a larger share of the pie it's moderated a little bit in thirteen but now in fourteen it shot up again and in fifteen it moderated a little bit so it seems like we're taking two steps backward one step forward rather than rather than than the reverse so the split is still you know fairly significant that the difference is significant you still have a a two point  seven three percent you know increase in the in this in the split a value shifting to residential so the good news is that it's not a multiple of that it's still within manageable ranges so i think to tom's point when you know once business values start to you know recover somewhat based on how we can assess them i think that's when you see things start well you know i don't like split tax rates i like a single tax rate because i think it i think it sends a good message but it's the economics and it but i understand i mean i understand that the process and you guys do a lot of work and and i understand your decision your suggestion thank you i hope your brother every year i have asked for my repeat primer on this topic obviously very complicated that you know i think that your recommendation makes total sense everyone's in the same economic condition here so i think balancing the tax rate this way is really our only option and again i look forward to single tax rate at some point i think we'll get there we're not that far off now so any other questions from the board i just have a question where some of the businesses don't provide  didn't come by so therefore they might deny the but also the information that they would provide that the the more accurate figures within that really ultimately benefit them in setting the tax  it's you know it's unfair to you know to those who are providing the information versus those that are thank you any input from the public  community from a business not everybody who does business with foxborough business is a foxboro taxpayer and so those people who want to can contribute via the tax rate i think to our coffers particularly since we have an unbroken record of never passing a two and a half override so that we don't have any of that added capacity plus totally irrelevant but i mean i just learned today that water rates are proposed to go up six percent next week and so rates two percent so i'm here just to speak on behalf of the resident homeowner and i hope you'll adopt the split tax rate thank you thank you so we need a motion to adopt the president of fact tour of point nine six three eight seven six you are at with of the presentation today we hope you will clearly understand who we are as an association of members course schools but also with the research of our attorney for your benefit as well as ours to better understand how we association of three hundred seventy four members schools we support approximately two hundred twenty seven thousand student athletes in thirty three sports across the commonwealth of massachusetts are the students to participate in the tournaments that we help to organize and run do not pay any entry fees to these tournaments so much of our revenue and much of the work that we do is to support these tournaments and these athletes to participate in the tournament experience i would equate that to many of our system my children here in town played a you sportsman your children might have played a you sports and you paid fees for those you paid you paid fees to get in those tournaments you paid costs to to participate in a you sports the students in massachusetts the students in foxboro don't have those costs to participate in tournaments there is no cost to participate you probably also know that we offer numerous workshops above and beyond the turnin experience we offer leadership workshops for middle school students girls and women in sports bowling prevention  workshops for coaches captains workshops or captains of all the schools in our association we do coaches education we participate in a great deal of wellness prevention activities throughout the year chemical health prevention education a  r training we also have a sports medicine committee that works hard to support all the student athletes of massachusetts and to help raise concussion awareness across the commonwealth we have a broad spectrum of what we do for kids we give back to our schools all of our students and certainly the students of foxborough we work in to offer these opportunities back to the students for a very very clear public purpose for all these students sitting before you today to articulate many of the things you might know as a representative  course a former educator of twenty three years four of those years here foxboro high school as you probably know i hope you will consider this request of who we actually are and how we make a difference for students if you would laws i would first like to draw your attention in your packets i believe you received some information from us to the exhibit more number one this document represents the original articles organization for the  joy your attention to the highlight in the first line that says chapter one eighty this is the document that is filed for all nonprofit corporations that are organized on their chapter one eighty so all of  your charitable contributions are a church bill institutions in massachusetts that are organized as corporations organize into this chapter the next i'd like to draw your attention exhibit one a which is a determination made by the prophets the attorney general division of public charities notifying the m i a of its determination that it is in fact  however this is only one half of the tax pedigree process the other half is the famous institution of washington known as the i r s i know i would like to ask you to look at exhibit number two which is a determination letter issued by the i r s that it is a charitable institution on their church after five a one c three of the internal revenue code this designation is important because it dictates the limit on charitable contributions taken on income tax returns you will see stated on this letter that the i r s specifically says that it is not a private foundation now you ask yourself is the a still a charitable organization today in the way one determines that is to go online in the olden days there was a publication that was issued and publication got to be about three inches thick and because organizations are approved be as says the code p c means a public charity and they deduct ability limitation of fifty percent meaning that you can deduct up to fifty percent of your income for the for the particular institution there is no higher status in the fifty percent organization list than the i r s publications list churches educational institutions entities that you come of known as charitable institutions and if these documents have not been prepared for this hearing these exist publicly there are a matter of public record and with respect to these documents my comment like to say that there's been a question about whether we are a charity or whether what our website says really is kind of irrelevant we all have are known as not by nicknames but your real official name is the one that's on your birth certificate and what i've shown you is the equivalent of course of a corporate certificate the town has previously supplied my client with an article written in february of two thousand and six in the edition of a city in town this is a publication i believe that's generated by the massachusetts department of revenue and speaks on various subjects of taxing interest to the cities and towns and the publication i believe was provided to my client because it was indicated that the town could not waive the ticket fees because it was not a proper use of public money so i would like to draw your attention to the exhibit three which i included in your packet and the relevant section says however the anti eight amendment and before i actually read the  just give you a little bit of background this is not a mass general law this is a and i'm not amendment to the massachusetts constitution and it evolved basically because the  there was a concern about the a diversion of public funds into various areas such as religious education and there even needed to be an amendment in order so that scholarships could be given it would turn you mass so this is that the genesis of this particular piece of the law and the relevant section that i'd like to draw your attention to was however the antalya amendment does not preclude a city or town from purchasing specific services some private organizations in order to carry out a public  items could might not be possible for a city or town to spend money on but this article is supported by the fact that the a nti eight amendment allows the exclusion for a public purpose and in the very next sentence it goes on to say further as with public purpose imitation discussed above if the expenditure is for a valid public purpose but also incredibly it suddenly benefits a private organization the expenditure will generally not violate the m t a amendment so you ask yourself what is the public purpose that the  service in addition to mr pearson's comments i would like to draw your attention back to exhibit one of the articles of organization and in that exhibit under the carpet function the main goals your patients the purpose for which this corporation is formed is to organize regulate promote interscholastic athletic for secondary schools of massachusetts add that the three hundred twenty two schools that are members you've heard from my client as i said that they from the gate the roles they schedule and promote the competition  woodgate safety roles provide training for coaches officials and parents in summary they're involved with every aspect of secondary school athletics and they are the only authorized regulate regulatory body for secondary school athletics this public purpose is necessary to provide for the safe and equitable administration of secondary school athletics and it can and cannot be properly exercised by any individual school between the town and gillette which provides and i quote that the selectmen of the landlord may from time to time an application of the tenant exempt church believe vents the stadium for ticket fee and i suggest that the super bowl term is such an activity since the event is pursuant to our public purpose which i've gone over with you in summary this matter which is before you this evening it doesn't matter how you approach it whether you look at the corporate or tax status of the m i a where they look at the application of the anti eight amendment whether you look at the lease there are no legal impediments to th enriching your decisions please consider that it's about providing opportunities building self esteem preserving youthful memories of life playing out in the big stage i like to thank organization i have no issue with with them at all in terms of what they're advocating what i maintain a position on and and i'd be surprised if they didn't advocate for them because obviously they feel they need to to to make the case for this purpose but i come i come out from a little different perspective this is a new issue for me i've never dealt with this before so this is no with me so i took up the first perspective on it and look back at all the other pieces of information that have been waivers based on the following concerns was the m i a is a private nonprofit association according to their own website definition going to the stadium lease agreement to slacken landlord may from time to time on application of the ten such requests i do have i do take issue with a request that has been made and i'll get back to that in just a minute the m i a does not meet the definition of being an organization who can accept public money or property or loan of credit as the find by the anti eighth amendment in the massachusetts constitution as they are not an organization which is publicly owned and under the exclusive control order and supervision of public office is a public agency authorized by the commonwealth appointed am i a website and a document  tobar twenty eight two thousand and fourteen the list of m i a board of directors includes names of two private school represents which by the way are catholic schools the m i a has previously indicated that they would consider accepting a reduced amo would be on the fifty thousand dollars bond forty six one four six the forty seven thousand dollars in value and the concern i have beyond that is that once granted it continues to pay every year thereafter as such you granted he would you therefore proceed accordingly was to be granted and it resulted in annual waiver they would reduce town revenue source that annual supports town services absolute direct benefit to the residents of this community i cannot support this expenditure i respect the fact that the  the board has discretion to consider this action however i have considered the matter carefully and wanted to the board to understand the position i am recommending and the reasons for this recommendation is purely not in any way shape or form against the m i a i want to be very clear about that  infirmary hospital institution primary or secondary school or charitable or religious undertaking for which is not publicly owned and on the exclusive control order into a vision of public offices the publications authorized b and the reason being this is this is tax money that is only to the town of foxborough the least the arrangement we have with the with gillette stadium is it's called  payment in lieu of taxes now the words they don't pay real estate taxes per state just like you just like any homeowner does our business does other business in town does what we what we get is to all it believes two dollars and fifty five cents per ticket sales and that's our tax money that's what we get for real estate tax and so i think that asking for this waiver it is inappropriate because it's just as if i went to the you know town government and said you know what i've given a lot of money to the for charities around school i think i would like to get a waiver on my on my real estate taxes and i just i just look at it and i support his his recommendation and i and i do not support the wa skills for the entire day super nice shoes to good sales or eighteen thousand and twenty eight i believe the previous year was thirteen thousand i think we're closer to the eighteen thousand number over the past seven or eight years  cash value the actual cash value of the cash value last year was forty six thousand one hundred nine dollars the ticket is that the take if he's at the question are you asking about the actual tell exactly how much you're making in total for the for the event what is the total amount of revenue i didn't i didn't do that number up so i mean it's eighteen thousand times the ticket sales the ticket sales were both student and adults so i don't i don't have that face value of the ticket is face value the ticket was seventeen fourteen last year seventeen for adults fourteen which that that includes the extra fee that you put on the ticket last year because we deny this last year you added two dollars to the ticket that is correct it included a two dollar dish no fee from the previous year right but not the full two fifty five right but so the regular face value would mean fifteen dollars and fifteen in twelve was a what it was the previous year ok the short answer the question is yes we we did not assume that there would be any such waiver for this event might i add to that if you would we do not had we did not have a contract until recently so there was no contract in place you know until the past thirty to sixty days so just so you know no that there was no guarantee that we were going to come to the stadium in a current contractual agreement like we did many years ago sixty seven it was also brought up the again a i'm concerned about this misinterpretation of the anti eight amendment the seminal case that's quoted in the materials as a footnote  city of springfield in that case the city of springfield purchased seven sixty six services it's an older case but it's a supreme judicial case that's the law today and the supreme judicial court in looking at the test said that the seven sixty six services one were necessary for the public school system but were not provided by the public school system so it was fine for them to be purchased outward and what we're talking about here is the the regulation and ministration of an answer scholastic athletics at the secondary school level and that's what the organization really is exists to do and that is analogous to the seven sixty six at least the town of  city of springfield school committee case so we do feel that the entity that we do fit within the anti elite amendment and as far as the charity is status is concerned there is no higher i can't present anything else to you that says that we're any any higher in the and the i r s is ice is a public charity and we have a document with us that shows the american heart association is the same documentation that we do and that is certainly i would say  to the american heart association you know but they can ok and if they are there at the dock to build the same rate that they are for the american heart association which was not the right to raise funds primarily from that particular endeavor so you're entirely funded for majority made your major funding source of these tournaments seventy five percent i believe you can our documents are out on the web our major revenue category seventy five percent is from student tournaments and other student services so if this if this term was so for instance the state wrestling tournament was here of our high school last winter all the proceeds go to mit not to the host school and not back to the participating schools so  there's no there's different levels of tournaments so it's it's very possible for that wrestling terminal much exactly which one you're describing if it was a certain level sectional level or state a state a state south final that would be a an m made regulated tournaments or run tournaments so all those those revenues the ticket sales would be part of our association offerings there are other tournaments that happen in other sports that maybe run by the schools you know might be a first or second round of tournament publicly owned and run agents and he can answer to that is no because based at least on their on their their website date they had their board of directors reflects to members they were not come from private schools but that's a condition by is for a ticket to have two dollars fifty five cents in on your website which i noticed on your website last year you described it i characterize it as the foxboro user fee it's not a fox town a fact you said you had to add the money we true with the tax obligation for the entity that happened to donate the stadium fiar figure figure vent so if if whatever happens would be nice in the website next time around just just to be a little more clear on on what what it is i don't even get as put that in at all just say how much the ticket prices madam chair and i think in the end we've come for you today just to again articulate who we are as an association of members schools that's really the one i'd like you to leave with we also brought our attorney not to be certainly not to be argumentative or difficult just to really clarify clarify what his experience as an attorney has seen the law and so hopefully you will see that who we are you will accept that is who we are i was also hoping that that by by stretching our resources to our attorney it might help you better understand the law specified so that's really what we're here for today that's ahead you better understand that to let you make your judgement as the selecting of foxborough for the value of this to our association to our member schools and all the students of the common that's really what we're here for today are in a row not too long ago we asked the firm of duran's us to write his opinion and he basically said he didn't know not a lot of case law but it's up to the discretion of the selectmen so it's not wrong if we do it and it's not right if we do it and that's kind of what i came in here tonight thinking in both sides still hasn't swayed me i think there's enough on either side you could you could go but my opinion is if we wanted to do this we could do this without violating the law  a couple things that stuck out in your last item summarize it this is tax revenues for the town and you can recommend it and i understand where that's coming from it's a little disingenuous not from you but from the town's perspective we've got a contract that the selectmen and put together in this whole business kraft organization came that said here's a pilot program payment in lieu of taxes if it's an n f l football game you get this amount it's  a soccer game you get this amount if it's a wedding or if it's something else it's all spelled in here in for whatever right or wrong or do you know this like when at the time in the town government in the private business agreed to this part of that contract is if the if a charitable organization is deemed worthy or if it's voted by the board we can give that that opportunity ok so to say across the board it's tax revenue and you can't recommend it why have that contract with the selectmen so maybe we should revisit this or take that thought process out and say rather than saying not recommending it take it for its merit and if it if it fits within the context of the contract and what we're trying to do with this whole piece that we put together on rule one and i say piece we put together because we own the land they own the structures in the business and we kind of work together i look at it as a bigger picture that the police are entirely paid for the fire is entirely paid for plus is a fee that goes on top of it which  goes back to the town to administer that we're bringing in a lot of revenue we're not bringing in anything the private business is bringing in revenue to the town we get the meals tax we get people stop and gas stations we've got the  kind of the prestigious having the super bowl here if you look at that whole large picture i think it makes some sense and you know and i think all of this people at the table understand what my is about and some people make some decent salaries over there it's a business but at the tail end of that business there is a need for the kids throughout massachusetts that such as football it's all of it so i think it meets the requirements of a charitable i think it's a good thing for the town if we put on our blinders and say you know if this is that this is tax revenue and we're never going to turn it away and i draw the attention to the last meeting where in part if i was at that meeting i probably would have voted the same as the majority but we had a business that came to us that had a fire and they asked for a waiver of their fifteen grand it's only twenty five hundred dollars but i watched the hearings and it was termed that  should not a way that you know if someone's house burns down and they can't use it for a year do we give them tax freedom for the year and not pay it so it's not exactly the same but it's the same you know to to make that blanket statement where there's like you can't give up taxes i feel that this is part of the contract that we worked out and it's not giving up taxes it's working within the contract that it gives us the opportunity to vote on it and if we say yes we say yes if we say no we say no but it's not giving up anything because the opportunity came to us within the context of the contract so again a little long winded but i you know i see when we start to stack this thing up that says  number two it's not the craft organization so we can't agree to it another item if we if we split it in the middle maybe give them a reduced price we can't do it without going to town meeting you know we could probably find six or seven other reasons but if you look that when they came when they renewed their business probably in september or october we would pro rate that and that was a suggestion by the a b c see that where if they you know do the fire there's no there's no business they can't conduct business then we we can pro grade the fee but we didn't waive it completely we lived with the idea here is we'll probably pro rate that like a license fee but that  know it's enough on the big picture to say i think we need to step back in and revisit the position and it's you know when we have a statement that it's tax revenue we can't say no to it john and i to me come you know last year you match ups distance that people have to travel are all factors in that so i would i would hate to measure the thirteen thousand the four thousand dollars the four thousand people last from the previous year and say that you know we had a four thousand dollar increase when the eighteen thousand that we had last year was third from the lowest so i don't think that i wouldn't be able to effectively make a direct relation to the no correlation to a but it didn't didn't decrease your traffic oh it did not but but but the equalization could could have very well been the match ups it could have been the local nature of the teams that had easier transportation to get there so it would be very tough for me to quite make a direct connection between ticket sales and total revenue total attendance and from year to reason why you can do that again there's no no reason we can't do it now but we would prefer not to keep raising ticket prices on all of the parents of the people that are coming to the event so we'd like to you know you know i used to work it didn't seem like there was a wholesale outrage at the ticket prices they still showed up and more showed up last year and it showed up in previous years i did probably want to ask the parents they pay the ticket prices more but yeah they may be that i'm just now i don't think anyone would come to the stadium to watch the game unless they had a connection of course you know some of the two dollars is going to turn people away i just want to give you just another comment in terms of as you know historically i do not support this waiver but you know i think the word that was just used earlier was that this benefits all of the students throughout the commonwealth three hundred twenty two schools i don't know how many cities those represent but  one concern one of my big concern is that foxboro subsidizing the this event for all of the other schools that participate why is it spock's pros responsibility to do that why is it not shared by every other participating school in this event so or in my you know any anyone who participates in maya because everyone is supposed to share in the benefit of hi everyone does benefit from my so again i feel that it's not right for the taxpayers to subsidize the entire event for all of the school children in the commonwealth you know so i don't know if there's something that you do to your dues annually to cover this so that it's spread out evenly for everybody but i just don't think that this approach is one that is sensible for the town  consider subsidizing because it does read it represents our tax revenue so i just wanted you to understand that if you don't just so that you do understand there's many towns a municipality is across the commonwealth the to help and support athletics when they come to their venues whether it be a high school gymnasium whether it be wrestling in foxborough high school that affords us the opportunity or whether it be a law fitchburg or in springfield so just so that you do understand this is a specific request to you at foxboro for the five of you today for this venue in this town but i can assure you that there are numerous towns across the commonwealth that do assist us and offer us an opportunity and i understand that but i thank you madam chair and for the benefit of my guest mr feldman who hasn't heard me speak against before i'm a retired high school principal lifelong educator thirty nine years i have plenty of experience in the i'm not going to criticize them here contribute with no absolutely no basis for whatever i have to say that i don't mean to be fresh but i did find it amusing that there was a legal component to it after the last year i want to just say that through the chair i hope will not be granted this waiver and i hope that they will be polite enough not to come back if they are not granted it not to come back and go through this every year i'd like to see this done as a taxpayer in this town i'm a great supporter of education i think anybody who knows me knows that i devoted my life to it and that includes athletics but forty to fifty thousand dollars a year donated by our taxpayers is just wrong and i think if you go back and count it up we probably already donated a quarter of a million dollars and passed waivers other ports don't do it please don't do th thank you thank  the stadium lease thinking reasoning and i think i'd be shot it would have been nicer machines and i said it's a word i'm looking for i want to hear the passion from the other side and it wasn't necessarily from why it was a craft organization of why this was important to them  why it fit in context to this and i asked you a few times if that could happen and i just didn't hear i didn't hear the reasoning coming back other than it's a dollar thing and it's a good organization and i thought tonight was was the opportunity to hear it and we don't agree often in the back there when you come up and speak but you made a lot of sense and when you came up and you know it was clear last year this year was kind of a little waver to hear the legal stuff i didn't need the attorney to tell me that it was the right thing or the wrong thing it wasn't more of a legal issue as it was a is it the right thing to do issue so i am going to support the board on this for those  reasons and again like i said from the beginning i don't think there is a right or wrong answer to this but it just doesn't seem to be fitting in the last couple years here so we have a common goal is in favor well your last vote was basically just to put on a warrant the amount that we were requesting for the soft cost what i'm asking you to do tonight is actually to vote to approve the two  applicants that have been accepted by the subcommittee and pushed forward to the board of selectmen in this endeavor one issue that i do want to make very clear to you that what i'm asking you to vote for is a total package price meaning the architect is and this contract as well as your p m s contract will be broken into phase one phase two they understand in phase one that that's what the soft cost that was approved the town meeting still stood for and  two only happens if when they want to go to a town meeting usually next fall it gets approved that's the only time the contract goes forward the reason we're asking for this is because we've locked the rates in and basically locked in the fee schedules for the architect their biggest part of the fee schedule obviously isn't designed to the building itself in the big documents their maintenance of the you know contract as it goes forward is a lower piece and i don't really want to see that get jacked up at all and from the o p m side obviously it's just the reverse they have very little up front other than helping us manage the process of the design and getting through it but their pricing is on this the second half is really on what they staff the project w negotiated a very good rate for the onsite clerk of the works and the way it used to be considered from a dollar point of view and i don't want to lose that in phase two so basically what we're looking for  is a vocal a positive vote from the board for learning latin martell's seven hundred two thousand five hundred dollars in total phase one of five hundred seventy six seventy five phase two of one ninety hundred eighty dollars in phase two for a total of two hundred ninety nine thousand six hundred forty dollars this would give us actually the authority to basically complete the contracts that are in the process of ne you know tom meeting hasn't rights they don't work in other ways the in their contract it's specifically stating what their duties are under phase one specifically stating what they do is our interface to but that face to only happens on a positive or affirmative vote of the town subsequent town meeting thanks you know on this particular vote i'm going to abstain i don't have a contract or there's no business relationship with l l b but i've worked with them in the past and i'm not in for a while and maybe working with them in the future i don't know but in face to construction administration and close out at one hundred ninety four thousand eight hundred twenty five dollars subject to town meeting funding approval the toll for a total of seven seven hundred two thousand  face one at five one thousand eight hundred sixty dollars and face to two hundred forty nine thousand seven hundred eighty dollars subject to town meeting funding approval for a total cost of two hundred ninety nine thousand six hundred  clarification from you and that was why we delayed the i would continue the hearing so can i just like can i just read the memorandum items that you said sure ok potential state law are in fact for rules and regulations violations change in the premises as described in the license without prior written approval of the local licensing authority thank you to keep premises clean sanitary permitting and the illegality on the license premise by storing drinks in unsanitary manner failure to disclose all persons who have a direct or indirect beneficial interest in the license and we get back to that one later in having an absentee manager potential violations  foxborough rules and regulations changing the premises as described in the license without prior written approval of the local licensing authority and naming an absentee manager on the license but we had what was in question was the faith to disclose all persons who have a direct or indirect beneficial interest in the license we want to know why that was about well there was some lack of clarity from the facts that we had that was developed by the the  of the the operation of the club there was a lack of clarity and so far as the the the license indicated that it was his sister who of fact was the manager but evidently she was not fact the the the the corporate structure for this property is a family held a closely held corporation so there's there's no indication that there are other interests other than the patel family a very thorough job in investigating this particular premises and the the reports that we have indicate that they had and vesta gated earlies visited this property going back to december of two thousand and thirteen and then it was the report that was written in september but does reference other information that was developed in the winter and spring of two thousand and fourteen so this this  is a matter that has really been under investigation for about a year based on the reports and what we have which i think is undisputed is of a license that frankly has not been operational has not been put to the public good since approximately april of two thousand and fourteen and now is before you on this multiple issues that were brought forward having to do with  potential violations of law and of your own regulations and based on our conferencing of the matter i took the opportunity to obviously speak to the applicant to speak to counsel it appears  there they are still several weeks away from putting this at license back in the operations there is significant renovations being done on the property and that that prompts the need for some review by your board to determine whether or not you would grant an alteration of premises to the license making sure again that that its operation will be in the public good and in the public interest but for the moment there is this this licenses is not operational and i've suggested to counsel and to the applicant would be finding that there was a change in premises without written approval by the local licensing authority we would be finding that there's an issue with an absentee manager on this license yeah again i think it's i mean obviously the applicant can speak for themselves on that but i think it's abundantly clear from the police investigation agent every time  went to promise us the name to manager was not present and not in control of the premises as required are there any other you know based on what's in the report the report regarding the  secured or the open liquor inventory and dust covered looking into it right i think that there's certainly sufficient evidence of the lack of clean sanitary item where i think we we can agree that there is there is no evidence of a lack of a beneficial interest up anyone other than as disclosed in the corporate filings investigator the department of public health or your own alcohol control agent i think that my advice to your board is said you should be satisfied with any of those three with certification that in fact  legal and regulatory defects second and a discussion we've done in the other one that it will only make sense if we agree on what the facts are finding a facts once we agree to the finding the facts the board has found that there was an illegality on the license promised by storing drinks in an unsanitary manner to the do we do them individually or week we list them all and then vote correct also finding a fact  of having an absentee manager and also finding a fact that there has been no request for alteration of the license premises in that they changed it but that is no request of the actually change the participant premises have been a question of clarification is the keeping the premises clean and sanitary isn't that something that you should apply for you know if the license is an operational if the the facility the bar is in operation and at the time that wasn't clean unsanitary it was one construction was was underway when the bar wasn't operating so when i i you know it's clean and sanitary would be something that would i would think would be either for example you know a point health type of issue or i don't clean kitchen and clean bar or something like i think this doesn't quite fit you know in the situation that i think what i've heard from the board when we were in the earlier session of the hearing was that the board was concerned that there would be some kind of service going on you know with service of beverages going on while the construction was continuing and i already informed the board that that would not be the case the way that i was hoping that this would be treated would be that the you know the because i don't want to give the perception or the the outside world  connotation or an idea that you know this license might be available you know because there's a lot of speculation in licenses in foxborough right now as i think the board's aware of and so what my suggestion is is given that the time the renovations are going to be completed hopefully by year end and subject you know to the then we we will have the  application filed with you that in essence that we escrow the license with you that we serve you know that rather than suspending it which is a say is a negative that we turn the license over to the slackman and and that that you hold that again we will have the the application for the alteration of premises to you by next monday at the latest has i informed the border earlier and that may be you know that would be a better way to proceed david in the pain on that but it's the most unusual request that that that i'm you know could be familiar with i'm i'm guided by section twenty three which tells us that we have the right to modify a manned suspend revoke cancel a license so my recommendation is within that range  what will range for that as soon as the police department i was told that the p c c he was the only one that could certify it but if it foxboro has an officer that's willing to do that and to make that  having an absentee manager failure to keep from premises clean and sanitary and finding a fact if there was a change in the premises without prior written approval of the local licensing authority this was the motion to you we were going to talk about the disposal of the alcohol the correction of the clean sanitary conditions naming of appropriate manager on the license and the submission both to suspend fusions why since indefinitely until fusion cures all legal and regulatory defects fusion could cure defects by obtaining approval for changes to the premises completing the approved changes to the premises disposing of all bottles of liquor store didn't unsanitary fashion again under the guidance of the doctor whose father in obtaining approval of mr patel was the manager  french want to read and i'll explain it and in the hands actually the action only refers to the fire station itself because the market street property was actually a tax taking so you don't need to take a boat on that basis to fight this so the action is to declare that the fire station property is surplus property which would then allow us to continue on with the process of doing the r p so there's two parcels that comprise that yes we only need to vote on the phone the fire station so i was told by the so i move that the property located at forty school street otherwise known as the old fire station be declared as surplus property  correspondence with the three license holders who were heard last week and the dates that were preferred i did send an email earlier i don't know if it came across to your attention yet but we do have  to lux friday twelve five monday twelve eight and wednesday twelve ten a move that we accept those dates for showcase deluxe so i can you say that we get to friday friday december pizza suspension dates of thursday nov twenty seventh thursday december twenty fifth and friday february sixth two thousand and fifteen for suspension so i can close in favor thank you we're in the decision i don't know abundance of caution i sent the the indication they would be all directly to me to my attention within a couple of days of that hearing that one was on the twelfth that's the only party that i've heard from on the record if you will of an intention to appeal i have heard mixed thinking from other license holders it's impossible to know since they don't have the written decision yet so again what with there we have our expectation be able to get those out tomorrow so once they go out tomorrow once they get delivered they have how many days hear any of these appeals any time within at the earliest six months or so so that presents the question that your board and other boards that sit as local licensing  the again it's it's impossible to say without knowing whether or not it's going to be an appeal ok the only one i know of is is the run of science and and they have requested doing the time that they pursue their appeal i think it's reasonable to assume that any of those license holders that do choose to appeal and again we don't know who else would that they would have a similar request it's only logical otherwise that the the appeal could be mooted if the suspension goes into effect and then weeks or months later you're   at least on behalf of renaissance is whether or not you would entertain a stay of the suspension that we now have dates for during the pendency of their appeal that's the one appeal that we know about the others are  are likely to have the same request in the event of appeal which of course they're not going to let us know until we get our when decisions are so we have to wait to they come back to us and i ask you you have the question already from we say no but use the analogy of a pocket of a speeding ticket you have a speeding ticket right appeal if you don't pay the money you go to the hearings and if you found guilty then you pay it later right so are you saying that if we say no to the stay of  the gate after the horse gets it i know it may be counterintuitive to to think that that this suspension going to in effect even with the appeal but look at it this way it's the last standing order that exists in the case is the  need the last business that we imposed that business is not coming back those are days that will last the the one incentive that a license holder might have to continue to pursue appeal even after the back to you to say members of the board we think you were you know in error in an ordering that result to this result and it would have the effect of of curing the record if you will that that all important record that you've all superior court to request a temporary restraining order and a temporary restraining order is usually turn on on one or two things one whether or not there's an irreparable harm in this case  a loss of a business or property that's not coming back i think they went on that the other element in these cases is to determine for the court whether or not there's a good likelihood of success on the merits by the applicant for the t r o and i suggest to you they lose on that so of those two elements that are most important in the end alice s of whether or not they're going to get a i think they're they're good on one and not on the other end and frankly it depends upon the the judge and what that judge's determination or experience might be on whether or not they would issue a t r o you could go either way you know free to follow the advice of the a b c c at the time i'm sure is it i think is a question of equity here though if you have seventy six other people going through and taking those taking the the only business that has not given us dates so we had to impose dates on our own the other one stepped up and did itself i'm comfortable and you know the process that we did in the reasoning behind it in the you know the regulations that i say we s said it for a reason if they appeal for fine we'll go through that process but i'm not in favor of a stay term as i just wanted if we if we did vote on proving a state for the renaissance tonight with that opened the floodgates for others to say i'm going to appeal and take the stakes i i would agree no stay i'd suggest that there should be a stay they did say that they had events booked for every single weekend in the near future and  just thinking about the impact on the wedding potentially that might be happening on one of the evenings we picked or whatever i just think that  i would suggest be reconsider and see what the a b c decides for this for this type of situation i i understand how you know the majority the board came to their conclusion on  penalty but you know this is a the nature i think of this particular business has a tremendous impact which understood so every single day every single week in the book it was a little unusual as we reached out all the other businesses and sure had obligations and commitments and they you know they caucused in came back with something that would work for them and in that one particular business has not come back with any that you know i mean i think they you know they've made their decision to appeal so that's probably part of what went into them not coming up with any dates but i think again you know the nature of you know certainly its impacts the business of a restaurant or theater but i just feel like here this is a venue that can be having major functions significant functions  i told him what the board had done and you know i didn't get any reaction one way or the other it was just in the context of a conversation a telephone gov's asian i think we had the day following last hearing so i would have been last thursday i let him know that that you set those dates consistent with the same dates i think at the levy out house so i let him know as i did and he hasn't said let me check my nights within the parameters the earlier set so i'm might because if you note that number that a couple of them actually chose thanksgiving and christmas has dates because i'll still be global business specifically asked at the last meeting had anyone heard and the answer was yes we heard through counsel that they're not interested in giving us dates so you know i would say we move forward if there's a really big issue and it's a really big hardship actually voted for someone want to make motion for the renaissance ok i'll put it in the affirmative i move that the boys will work on a temporary stay until the by way of disposition and one of the things we talked about was the possibility of taking all under advisement and then maybe getting what we typically call of some kind just positional memorandum from both on on what you think might be reasonable in that way you'd give give yourself some time to think about a little but still consider that that's one possibility unless you feel comfortable enough