it doesn't mean that one or the other of us isn't named bob smith so if if this company is governed by the acronym react regularly uses the name ira a r s identify it's its business there was a declaration found right th everybody agrees that whole trade name registered in new jersey but how can you sort that they are misrepresenting their eyes when we don't know whether that's the name under which they usually transact business whether it's a commonly used acronym for th and i read to you but the very short call was we gave a phone number so you could have called that number now maybe you didn't want to call that number the coin didn't want to call that number and you could find out who  and you could also check the web site to the extent it's not blocked although we're not sure if it's blocked or not blocked on a one hundred percent basis what you said was some times and so if you could easily find out who a r v s is it any attempt to collect this step in that context it's you know how much harm is there really here you're it's like a hyper and we have cases that judge which cited in his opinion below which which said that you can use an abbreviation and that's what i was asking your colleague about so i ask you is it isn't there around ah just going back to what the case law dictates as i understand it is that you need to disclose there's nothing which prohibits the use of a that's true but that doesn't answer the question the question is whether the use of those initials accurately identify circling it not whether you can use initials yeah that f t c says you can and the case law says random an initial set and different initials for every time you made the call you would be standing up you're contending that that accurately identified your client the only thing that would make backorders if that was something that you always used in people came to understand you with those six motion and by wa we were confined to the four corners of the complaint were documents identified in or relied on in that complaint or that water is not is neither of those rather two categories right but the website is that and we were to say that there's a reference to a r s on the website that doesn't mean there's not a factual or she doesn't know you saying that that the existence of those writers on that website resolves question of whether  c guideline that says that a collector may use its full business name the name under which it usually transcends business or commonly used acronym and the collector here is technically h r r g all but this is that it's not the case there because there's a provide a telephone number and the website so it's christmas take with me it's if it were crystal clear we wouldn't be here right now so it's it's obviously not crystal clear if we were used adequate or not and what we're trying to at least not trying to grapple with is there's an f t c guideline that says these are ways you can do it which are adequate now are you saying that the f full name which i guess everybody agrees you didn't do the right thing even use the correct your full name or betrayed register trading right that's correct ok so that leaves us with two other options and only two other options on the f e c gu usually transact business or commonly use acronyms usually transact business is a factual issue right as it's commonly used both of those things require facts and we don't have to force is not true either i get was that's true calls up and says hey this is joe smith you really need to call me because there's a big issue if you were having someone call in and say that their company pays you know this maybe this is probably almost name of the deaders business if it were sections that you allows you to do to use initials but from the complaint in looking at the complaint we don't know whether a r s is the true name under which h say if it were not for the statute and the f t c see guidelines or regulation that's true i mean it doesn't make any difference who the debt collector is in one sense because you give a telephone number and you get a website that clearly people don't like you in what they collect this right and that's the c p a is meant to protect them to a certain this degree from unscrupulous that collectors you've already noted that as a policy reason driving it so  doing something that is indeed contrary to the spirit and the statute which is if you want to figure out who we are you call a sup and then we'll talk to you well let me have it if they said this is  name and then we wouldn't be having this conversation at all right then it really would be crystal clear but you're quite chose not to do that because just to use a r s which is source of the contention right yeah yeah o who they are s is because it's walked at least often explain that i went on the website and i put it into the record i had no absolutely no trouble getting on the website and i didn't go on the web site any