tonight we have attorney brandon ross here from the town would you like to come to the table sergeant and that's so our first hearing treeview and discuss information concerning alleged violations of chapter one thirty eight that occurred at the skipjack two to six patriot place facts from mass interested parties are invited to attend thank you so representatives f o'leary on september twenty fifth two thousand and fourteen i conducted an alcohol compliance check at all the license establishment foxborough prior to conduct in this compliance check and i reviewed the department's rules and regulations are conducting compliance checks with an ok and in terms of the guidelines for conducting compliance checks were those followed they were ok and how did the operation commence after reviewing  regulations myself another plainclothes under cover police officer and the underage operative went to skip jack's restaurant at approximately seven fourteen p m and what happened with the operative and skip jacks next morning and advise him as to what happened ok and did he have any response was very apologetic upset that it happened and immediately terminated the employee for the questions reviewed his pre meal presentations i've talked to mr doubt on a numerous occasions just through my course of walking through picher place and he does advise me as to what he's doing on a daily basis and he does present his board have any questions i'm just not familiar with the term pre meal presentations what is that that's give checks and many restaurants and bars they the manages to ship leaders will talk to their staff and review like specials for the night and everything else that they expect for the night and the sadowsky say no i've seen his presentation that he presents and he does address on a constant basis to make sure that they are doing their job and correct correctly and asking for identification and reading the you and that takes place for every shift to the best of my knowledge with every employee to the best and to the best of my knowledge has not addressed these to you john yes that is again just a question  was the follow up training after this incident with your staff your source what type of training was it what type of training was that provided it was a about one other quick question and looking back at the violation within the last three years when skip jacks was in front of us last time we had suggested an automatic card reader had the and they decline is set up to conform to that or to what the license has two hundred fourteen seats is only eighteen seats at the bar and there are and there's also full service at the bar the very few alcohol only custom they cater to business customers families and customers who want to find dining experience approximately twenty three to twenty four percent of their gross revenue is derived from alcohol both up to the bar and a table so they don't attract or cater to the younger drink and snack crowd they're basically a food service restaurant well the license permits them to be open until one o'clock and they have last call monday through thursday at ten thirty last call on friday and saturday at eleven thirty and sunday  proper id get a stamp and the senate but the people services i still  the pre meal and uniform to check which part is done every day twice a day at eleven o'clock and five o'clock which is roughly the beginning of the two chefs have a with and again you can see the data and basically what what the the shift managers go over the under the featured wine and drink specials drink specials again the tools of the trade is police standing be on high alert  the last thing that they did was when they received a notification from the chief of police about his proposal apparation copy of that letter was put on the manager's door in plain view for everyone to part of the crew i would use of this was that she was frying the fire on friday morning and saturday she was at a bar in franklin essentially doing the same no absolutely nothing she was thinking all of the night was slow she certainly was not hustling for tips this was a two dollar draft beer not a ten dollars martini where she was going to get any extra money does not seem to be an issue  that you know i'm just what i just came up with the same time as the three secret service agents at the white house whatever i'm going through to walk by without even moving or one of them was in the it doesn't really take an awful lot of brains or training to ask someone if you're serving liquor to ask someone for an id the next point i wanted to make is that there are other people who'll really get hurt for any kind of six hour shifts a week so roughly thirty hours typically a buyer a waiter can earn between one hundred nine hundred twenty five dollars in tips per shift on a weekday and between two hundred and three hundred dollars a shift  on a weekend therefore if you have a three day suspension such as you have imposed on the prior violations and some tech it affects roughly four hundred to five hundred dollars in tips that a person are going to lose a couple hundred dollars out of their pocket and if you're of someone who's working your way through college or grad school or someone working a second job then against me which is  are that's a pretty tough hit that could be a car payment you could be a student loan payment book your portion of rent or mortgage payment as i said earlier this is been a very very town that caters to it was dependent on young people coming in and doing the drinking and again finally it does the suspension does affect off a lot of  innocent bystanders including the employees as an aside my clients really fully support the idea of prosecuting the service and there are a number of reasons for that one is again i think just the facts in this particular situation it's really grossly unfair that the server didn't even lose a day's pay and some other people are going to be could be seriously hurt financially and secondly i'm sure that these operations are going to continue and they ought to continue and hopefully if the people who are in the business  know that there's a potential to being charged maybe in someone's head for what's going to come on next year or the year after in the given that this isn't a joke that this is serious and i think the final point is maybe the most important point is if this person or any person is punished in some way for doing this maybe in the future if they stay in the field and someone comes in who is under age and ask for a drink and maybe if it is even a sting maybe if it's just some underage kid from say they want to drink they're going to think about that and maybe that's going to save someone from doing that save some from doing something stupid save a life and that's really what the purpose of this whole program is is to make that underage kids aren't drinking and out on the streets potentially crawling causing harm to others and one final point is that again this is a you know kind of a new world from when i first started practicing law when what's called a continuation without a finding their criminal offense record in court it would reveal something and it may not disqualify someone from a job but it certainly is going to you know have someone something that someone is going to ask a question about so i think that this is it's serious enough and i think it's a good idea to be prosecuting you know that the police really don't like it was expensive annoying but i think it's worth it's worth the effort in my clients  barbarians watching the transaction i don't remember seeing anyone and the general area but the reason i ask is that and john you would said that this is a restaurant that you know doesn't cater to a younger crowd and of the point i'm trying to make is that  when young gentleman like that walks into the restaurant he stands out like a sore thumb guys like that they are all the time so i'm wondering if it was this by gender you know i agree it was lazy but secondarily if it were also the bar you were they could have said hey hold on to management if you thought have been observed by the ship manager or anyone else there certainly would have been question because again you know they were aware this was happening they were supposed to be on high alert and they were out of this woman obviously wasn't but have skipped out and you know how to go to the men's room or the ladies room how do you ensure that everybody is present get these reminders well that's just part of part of the process and you just when the people come in i mean  suppose that you know what you're saying is that you know that it's done every day it's done twice a day you know possibly one person could miss one of them but it's if they're working five shifts a week there's chances are pretty good that they're go that because they have to know you know one of the specials night what you know if someone asked you a question about the kinds of oysters here really you have to be able to answer those and there are some other specific things but this was a particularly active evening but i don't generally on for an evening there are some very specific things that people working that shift have to know so if they don't get it directly they're going to get it indirectly you know if they miss that meeting someone's going to come up to and say here's what's going on so i think it's it's very likely else is overtraining user overemphasis and it's i think it's clearly not under says you know maybe to you cry wolf so many times that you know when the wolf comes in and you don't like the rifle walk right by and that's what they're trying to stop and they did they just you know i think that that may be part of it but who knows when she may have just been just totally distracted it would be interesting to do some if you know it's a it's a you know without because we you know people are going we try to be interesting to do some sort of deep briefing and say what were you thinking about and i'm sure that there were eight other operators in town question i don't think anyone really in this town is looking to serve underage people and i think that that's you know that's not the culture of the town it's not the culture of the area but it you know they could hire someone younger range and do that and just you know do it on a brother daniel was a constant basis you know once a month once every two months and just making you know making people trained how you know how committed is she you know how do you know that you can measure can see on the way things do all the right things you know come in and you know look you know be presentable and but you know when the one time comes when if she's you know thinking about her boyfriend or something else and does you know you know not paying attention when it unfortunately as you all know in business and you know you're going to have one you know you can have the best leadership in the world and you have but you have one one ey're not paying attention you know getting people to pay attention is a difficult difficult do when you're given the license i'm speaking to skeptics now your name is on the license but also i name is on the license the selectmen actually signing those licenses and that's that's a big hundred sixty four days this happened last year under this the once a year sting if it happened again so that's our concern is you know we got you got unlucky one night but how many one nights during the year could you get unlucky if we if another sting was done that's a concern well i understand i understand that that's real but i think you know the realistic the realistic thing is that you you know that for this and for many right you know there are certainly restaurants that cater to young people cater to that kind of crowd that you know you get five kids who are twenty two and one who is nineteen try sleeping with them and that's that's i think with the with the risks are but you know just the nature of their business is that you know some twenty year old is going to go in there and have ten beers and walk out and jump in his car and get his i'm just not that is not going to happen that kind of restaurant and there are other restaurants up there that that wouldn't happen but when it did happen it happens to a restaurant the ca why this why this woman didn't do that we have absolutely no idea i mean we were there satisfied that you know she was drained she was certainly have warning because she was an employee a year ago when that person to do a year ago  fired so she knew this wasn't a joke she knew she could if you wasn't paying attention she could get fired and you know for whatever reason but that i have to embrace that there's kind of a disconnect if you're doing all this you know top but on the other hand you know what other kind of you know they're certainly open to suggestions as to you know what they could do and how they could do it but you know the conventional wisdom is to again do what they is heard all of the individual hearings and then actually came to discuss what we were going to do for disposition so we'll just do the finding of fact at this time and then close this hearing right to take a stab at this so i'm sure that we have finding in fact that there was service to an underage person as described in the report dated september twenty fifth two thousand and fourteen know the point of order i'm in a chair and i brought this up before when we advertise something for a specific time and there's no mention on our agenda published or on the website or tonight and we have it twenty minutes early my opinion and it stays as it was last time it's not in accordance with mass open meeting law if we if we want to entertain having it early we need to put on the on the agenda or at a time that change because there are people that might want to c a waitress might want to come a time they might want to come we have a hearing and they don't and we don't give them that opportunity we're putting the town at a position where we're not doing it according to the law and i brought this up before and i don't know why we keep doing this advertised in the paper suggesting that we take a break when the options are we can do whatever we want for twenty minutes but don't start this until eight o'clock so the first time we had the situation come up it was based on the waiver of the participant the party that permitted us to go forward brandon is there should we have a concern regarding open meaning law yes i mean one thing  option to proceed earlier but there is certainly the overarching concern with the public of the board's inclined to take a recess or break for a few minutes the consensus to take a break too late ok  frank we're going to take a break now we'll come back at eight o'clock thank you thank you frank welcome back to the board of selectmen meeting for monday december eighth we're going to begin now with the public hearing for waxy o'connor's alleged alcohol violation and he's already read the public what does that report relate to in terms of waxy o'connors every flex the underage compliance check that we conducted it with your conscious and was there an undercover operative that was present for that there was and is in the rooms and i feel is ok and can you describe operative who was identified as being nineteen years old through his true valid and authentic massachusetts driver's license was used to enter the establishment and that what happened during the the  alcoholic beverage he was as it was a receipt for that order there was and how was he ordered paid for with cash ok and what happened after the undercover operative was served the alcoholic beverage employee after serving under age person for asking and asking for an id is an acceptable and we know that this board takes all violations very seriously and watch your cause also does  this is not an excuse for serving that individual was either but it's just an explanation that we received as to why he served that individual who was under the age twenty one why he did not ask for an id the employee was terminated on the next day because of a violation this employee had been hired in august august fourth to be persuasive as a trainee  for size the need to continue doing educating and knowledge in what their employees all these rules and regulations procedures that need to be followed began two years ago we were in front of this board for and all their intentions was never to be for this board again but if i wish that has occurred and we're here to work with the town in order to get through this again the action of that one boy he was not in line with expectation of all the box because employees will accept the board's decision as to the second violation which is within your guidelines to whatever you decide just to come up and just talk about small procedures them to be diligent about carter people we want to protect everybody and we certainly don't feel that there should be a culture in the structure of also pushing the food angle of it a little bit with the food and the razor legs but that was not here would it happen but moving forward that's my plan is to comply educate staff regularly regular meetings with the last violation can you explain the policy changes that you've implemented sense you're here in front of us last time and how it relates to the settlement agreement settlement agreement that was signed signed and if you don't like it i just want to hear from mark since he's the owner you have an understanding of what you agreed to in two thousand and thirteen and what you had to carry out for the year as far as your policy changes was signed signed it you know and i'm not trying to trip you up but there was some specific requirements that had to be done by waxes over this this past year between that settlement agreement and now some of it has to do with policy and some of it was expressed at he didn't need anything else so those are the circumstances if you look in your files the first me were supposed to come in and i sent a letter with all the information and we were told that we would have to come in yes actually  their scanners and we do have the skills of those being used on thursday nights up to the twenty fifth no scanners are typically used only on weekend nights a week and nights when you expect large crowds or longest manager and as i manager a bartender they've had he said you purchased it and you your policy is to use it on thursday friday and saturday so monday tuesday wednesday and sunday you don't use it no real need for somebody at the door what should happen is the bartender should ask for id and i i probably agree with that but i didn't make up the policy when this was information and what was interesting is the excuse that you get that the by to indicate that this person he thought was near regulus and so if you thought that was the exact same excuse that was used the last time y circumstances that's what we were told you know i mean i hate to sound like a broken record but all we're asking is you follow the law yeah i asked for id especially young looking person like that and all were asking if you do that and when and also you got caught in the stand one night what happened to the other three hundred sixty five days of the year that's my concern and like i said your name is on a ball interviewed a number of people to determine who they want to hire to become the manager the sting occurred the first go through for on the license for six maybe twelve months total and to hire somebody else full time to help out for a number of years on the license there but they decided in the best interests of fox history of waxing and he was going to be going on the license and eventually he went on to a different offer also  violation but that was the reason for the manager license so what is the ratio of alcohol to food sales currently  years so just given that has there been any discussion about just checking every person's idea who comes in since i think you typically would have a younger crowd there to begin with certainly has been t a move that there's a finding of fact that there was service to an underage person as described through report that was entered to temper first for the incident on i'm sorry october first for the incident on nine twenty decision to make if we're going to you know discuss this evening penalties for these two sites or if we want to defer that discussion to another to our next meeting but i do know from talking to turn to look at that separating it between the liability and a sentencing essentially phase seem to make sense in terms of splitting the two to two hearings so that would be  well it seems like the consensus is to discuss at this evening ok right can we make it i mean discuss it and you may not have you may not come to our final decision we should put that  to get from lax use an itemized list of how they've complied to this or not so i think that at that point least was something in the file that we can discuss because part of that settlement agreement was that those were followed from at the time that they were supposed to come before us we had it with their first report and then you're right i don't remember ever seeing a written report after that but i mean these reports but there's also specific dates of training that they were supposed to do so that they've done it great if they haven't it is what it is but i'd be interested in getting a letter on waxes letterhead that says either didn't use or didn't do it and i have i want to notarized that it's a legal document because to move forward without that information we might as well have not followed the previous stipulations at all brandon would be in order to consider you know like reconsider a piece of information like that would we have to reopen a hearing to do that to consider yes because that would be not the hearing not reopening the hearing on the why building phase centrally we would be receiving evidence or information from the applicant on the sentencing phase the disposition of the sanctioning phase yes so we thought we could ask for this in use as a tool and deliberations exactly we don't have to post a public hearing or anything like that  the safest course would be to you have to post a notice of the meeting per the open meeting law in terms of the public hearing itself the hearing on the underlying violation itself has closed ok a question is that what they call a three year look back yes that year is that january to december far if there was a violation in much would it be from much in one year to match the next year within a three year any three year period three years from the from the latest on my yes looking back three years and actually that's per the the foxboro rules and regulations for holders of alcohol licenses it does say within the past three years prensa sees counted from date of last violation that's within the foxboro rules march twenty second two thousand and eleven april twelfth two thousand and eleven may seventeenth two thousand and eleven may twenty fourth two thousand and eleven january twenty second two thousand and thirteen february fifth two thousand and thirteen so that's in there if you want to go back and look in the in the minutes you know they would things would continue for two three you so we're looking at why don't we start with a discussion well we'll continue with a discussion of waxy since that's the topic that we're on right now so we're looking at a second violation in a period of two years september twenty seventh two thousand and twelve was the last violation that was selling to a minor and it was  from jarrett twenty third to february seventh two thousand and thirteen that was served and  at the time that was the third violation within a three year period now we're in a different place second violation selling to a minor came up last time the discussion we've had in the and in the past about this is off as well as these are guidelines it's not the minimum or the maximum if you look at number thirty seven which is before the sanctions it is notwithstanding these regulations a local licensing authority may impose different and more stringent requirements conditions and or penalties upon a particular license and or license premises where necessary to assure public safety so when i asked this question at the last meeting someone had said no this is these are the guidelines and all the look back period itself i mean is stated in here but that paragraph thirty seven does prevent present an opportunity for this forward if the board makes a determination that it was necessary buzzwords i would say would be necessary to assure public safety if they make a finding that it's appropriate for that reason and certainly the board's within its power and authority to waiver from deviate from those suggested sanctions on that's on the next page the board require that all patrons be carded when they come in the door pursuant to this paragraph thirty seven that would be within a condition or a requirement or has to be more stringent than what's what otherwise is in here so the answer is yes  a sordid history of violations and problems and everything else in the town is aware of it is wondering how can how can we have confidence going forward that you know no matter which sanctions that we choose to impose on today and just looked at the print out the print outs for the activities during the different years and the last two years i call it activity incidences whatever are way down compared to  the years before that before a certain owner and the manager was dismissed and replaced actually bought out so i think the last couple years occur because of human are but that that is their goal and i want to minimize the possibility of that ever by making sure they hire the right people and i have the right oversight wh state and and as the road commissioners we approved the sign to direct people to your two year stablish ment because we are supportive of businesses in town we try to be supportive well now we cater to all the crowd axes does cater to a younger crowd i mean i've been in there when i've been probably the oldest person in there so if you care to that kind of crowd then you should be even more aware of age especially like and the night that when it's not busy on thursday night so that's why i am really you know i'm really concerned because like i said before the sting was one night but what happens the three hundred sixty five other days of the year was this a fluke the sting was a fluke or is it just you know if we did multiple stings during the year would you be force would you work with any of the places in town before so again but that's the question that like i said i names are on a license is names around the licenses i don't want to have to i don't want to be in a position where someone says to me why did you let this happen and that's that's our concern and it should be our concern to so basically jim you would want us to have in writing what the other actions were taken in terms of that agreement and then we can you went through a settlement agreement i might want to see where we stand with what's been carried out and what hasn't ok  so it's a starting point and the reason i say it is because there are if the settlement agreement agreement wasn't it here too there's a whole set of other stipulations in here that we would consider on the path of this i'm not saying go back in time but it clearly says if that wasn't done then the board has to revisit it independent of nothing ever happened again unfortunately this this is the door that opened to bring it to our attention ok so then frank if you could provide a summary of all of the actions that were taken to comply with that agreement and we could have that as an agenda item last year for that this would be considered the second violation yet within one year part i should jenny your comment is what happens the other three hundred sixty four days a year you know a stain if someone gets caught up in this thing it's sort of a an indication of the of the culture of the business and whether or not minors would would be sort of throughout the year we'll never know but if you get caught up in a sting one has to assume that your systems are working and you didn't i didn't really couldn't discern that we're going to do anything different except more training more training and more training they did sort of make the point that you know the bartender was lazy bartender made a mistake  d was you know not paying attention and i continue to maintain that you know whenever we have these hearings and management of these companies are in front of us that at least  management has to own up that they're the people that hire these folks and train them and support them and police them but to you know say hey just bought gender not office brings a little hollow with me so you know in this case direct question is where is the disconnect and the answer is we don't know and you know we had this discussion at past hearings on other projects and whose responsibility is it i was to figure out a system that works do we need to work together is it is it is it more policing is it more training is it more what have you but i don't want to be in the position to tell them where the disconnect is if they don't know where it is i was quite offended when the argument of economics came up and to be told that the day of closing the three days cost four hundred dollars to five hundred dollars i was very surprised it came up because i know people and i'm sure other people know people that you know a mother would pay that price in a heartbeat to get their kids and you know i think that i would i would end up there it's not our responsibility to find out where that disconnect is if maybe they need to buy tenders or three buy tenders or somebody to look over somebody's shoulder but it's not working in the exact same story that we just heard tonight it was a repeat of what happened a year ago it was almost verbatim the same thing that happened and i don't see any change coming a year from now because we're going to be in the same boat i was really hoping that they say they're implementing something else so they're restructuring or they're investing in something but it was blame the bartender even brought up she was you know a boyfriend or we asked them what they do we ask for detail on the the pre meal shark they give us a piece of paper and say these are all the things that we're doing it almost seems like once they leave th premium the uniform jack whatever you want to call it it's all bets are off people are on the floor doing doing their own thing they need to solve police are out on the floor at the point of sale they can't do it in a vacuum and for them just to say this is this is what we do and we're just going to use a piece of paper over a train train train it's not working you know when you come back a second time and in a year  you know that they talked about you know hurting the other staff members no one involved that but you know what sometimes it takes a little pain to get the message across own plans this is what we do before you know this is what we do but the thing is it's a law that you can't under twenty one hundred twenty one and you're supposed to ask for id when someone looks like they're under twenty one and that's that goes for everybody you know all the establishment and it wasn't done and it's all reskin you to do is follow the law that's all we're asking you to do with us for that  at's all arrests and it obviously wasn't a sunni i know you know when i look at these examples of pre meal discussions that happen you know again you just wonder what could be done differently to somehow you know just reemphasize somehow wake up the people who are hearing the same message over and over again you know for their five shifts a week or however many shifts a week and you know it really i keep going to you know a self compliance check i don't know how often managers who are present are actually if they see someone who they think looks under thirty do they just double check ever there just has to be some other way of self patrolling that would heighten employee awareness and that and there has to be consequences if that self compliance check is failed internally and i wanted to ask if you could comment do you have any thoughts based on what you've heard this evening of you know what any suggestions for improvement unfortunately if i could come up with a good suggestions i would put it out on the market and be a millionaire hopefully  unfortunately as much as i think the operators of our facilities are serious people they are trying to do the best it goes back to just repetition i know that picture place team is in the process if they have not done it already about having their own compliance checks and i know going back to the late one nine s they actually the other like a license holders in the community actually formed a support group profiles for ok and they themselves besides having meetings amongst themselves to talk about issues i brought in speakers in fact judge winslow he was sitting at the right of the bench came over to one of our morning meetings over at the age of america and all the people that howard licenses in the community were there to listen to what he had to say and that type of unity and dependence on one another so that they're all on the same page and doing their own compliance  proper identification and i think you know as much as you have the difficult decisions in terms of assessing appropriate punishment to bring about change we've also so they can better you so that you love to get a much faster pace and it's almost the same thing about the management team they have to be able to help one another and my concern is i do not want the town of foxborough do become a mecca for under age drinking kids come in i'm sure they have an app for that you know this is where you go even john mitchell referred to it this is where in his day there mccain i'm not sure if he knew that this was a second violation because he was alluding to the maximum penalty of being a suspension just never knows this is the second violation they were here except a year ago suspension of three to ten days to consider also an option of looking at liquor closing hours you said that we could put a stipulation on that the well could we do two things could we stall readers don't think they've done today and that they  rules and regulations but in your in your opinion those actions reasonable would they be considered to be capricious those those would seem to be resolved in these circumstances because they are part and parcel of the violation that's involved here it's not it's an it's not an issue for example of just just as an example over service a question is the issue is proper service to an individual of age to require reader sue ensure an individual the patron of the customer is of so it's part and parcel it's related to the underlying nature of the violations that are involved in these circumstances with this particular lace that it went outside of the written second violation sanctions i don't think so i think it was agreed just that you can't ask for a license and what could have happened could have been but i think it's i think if we look site second violation suspension of the license in three to ten days i'm not interested of closing them early eleven o'clock i don't know what they will do that their business from eleven to twelve or eleven to one doesn't seem to be the issue the fact is that they just not asking for the id when someone comes in so i would make a motion to the board to suspend the license for ten days in accordance to with item number two on the second violation  i think where they were only issued a letter of reprimand on the first violation and obviously this is a second violation within the year  help the police department do more frequent checks and require i do i do machine existence where money goes in it can be spent for specific purpose because usually money goes into the general fund and has to come back out to the town meeting which kind of controls the purse strings so that would be the only potential caution i guess i would have on on that issue but i think i think compliance is is an issue yes you should be at the taxpayer's expense right should be on the violators  done as if it were true for the time of the action in the next budget cycle which would be the annual tell me that you could actually then appropriate some of those same funds or create a fund right where that money could be appropriated from for the use of that purpose  i know we have had that situation in the past couple of years ago we did something similar to that it just raises some concerns to me in terms of you know we have guidelines we don't discuss monetary penalties as part of that the other piece i would add also is massachusetts general laws do limit with when a town finds a particular person limit by state law is three hundred dollars per fence so there would be a cafe pursuant to that particular one it was to be used for a police department for further training which the irony was they were doing their job and went to further training and i voted against it there and i would vote against that here because i don't think it's our purview to have them spend money on their own training in how to run their business or even you know require them to put up money do so card scanners and we've been through this before you know only works if it's turned on but it's not up to us to tell them how to run their business it's up to the last to put penalties so they change their way to doing things and i think the more days speaks a little more volume then having a card reader that may or may not even get plugged in and see where you're coming from david but i have been through this a couple years ago and i just it's a uni yeah i would be i would be looking at ten day suspension i would not be interested in asking for a fine or any you know monetary i  expensive ok well i think maybe i would go along with requiring a scanner but if we did that does that mean what about the other license holders and that i saw that could could actually change their culture all right so i'd go with the ten days and then the requirement with the scanner with the hope that the new manager would be you know i agree that you know it didn't seem like there were  changes in what was done from the prior year but i think that again this the self compliance piece i think once that goes into effect with the pitcher placed group assuming that does go into effect i think that will be helpful to all of the businesses that participate i find that i believe that ten  i think you know a penalty for a business especially a high end restaurant five days will be a significant impact to them i think also as part of the discussion  about what days are we going to require any particular day of the week for this penalty i would just ask the board you know if he would reconsider ten five if we  somewhere in the middle at seven if that would be considered but again they are a highly regulated business they know they get into this they know what they're getting into they know if they fail compliance checks they know what the penalties are going to be and they all signed up for this so i think in the  given that they only got a letter of reprimand last year i'm willing to go so and but honestly if the board was drifting towards ten i would join them we think that seven da suspension with that many days i'd like to suggest that be over a period of three months as opposed to two that we have set for the last just giving again consideration to the business whatever functions they may have going on that this is a you know busy time of year but also i think you know another way of looking at it it does reinforce the punishment over a longer period of time and the appetite for that you know it's yeah it's a busy time of year it's a busy time of year for everything else but if they just asked for that license they wouldn't be  having i mean if this didn't happen a year ago and have the exact same thing happen and have us told that it was an investment issue or they didn't want to do the scanner and a year later  they were worrying about the financial implications because an attorney had said between fairly the business i'm sorry to go back to the fact that if a kid goes in there and drinks and spills out onto the it would be looking at this at a completely different light and you know i can take it a little easier when someone's over served or something else happened that they don't have control over anything i i don't i put this at the top of the list of  any other suggestions seven days scan are required fifteen it's just i'm a little cautious of trying to tell somebody how to run the business a little more this is what's going to happen and and hopefully they'll see that and they'll buy five scanners and three bodyguards who knows but i don't have enough ability to know if a scanner will even work i've heard testimony from other places saying they don't use a scanner because nobody looks violation speaks a lot louder and a lot more effective than a scanner are we better off just saying you need to guard everybody who orders a drink right again and so we own it at that  point where we are giving them a business requirement to do when something goes wrong they said well look we you know obviously you know they're not they're not doing a lot on the wrong yeah and there's i don't think there's a right or wrong answer ok so seven days to be served within sixty days including two weekend  days now we're going to let the establishment choose the days or shall we choose the days i'd suggest that we left the business choose the days that i think we've done that it's a restaurant they don't have functions maybe but at least i think they they can do a better job figure out which days and us seven day suspension has to be served within sixty days of the final notification and of those seven days at least two of those days have to be weekend days being either a friday or mentioned just to make the board aware as well and since the last hearing of the board where i received two inquiries from two establishment who had questioned who had concerns about the dates of serving their penalties which they had already in writing we did receive one across today i'm still waiting for the other one but it's possible that those both those requests will be before you what the next meeting on the sixteenth as well thank you this is the same establishment to establishment which was two different styles