fact that on the summer of thirteen this court ruled against us on our appeal of the fifteen we call the permanent injunction issued by the district court and the impact that that has here today  briefing in this case was not completed at the time of war on fifteen week well let me ask you right even before that decision came out in december you didn't request oral argument in this case i understand you didn't request it in the other case even though you saw it on bon as i can say in hindsight we should we probably should have it certainly would have been a proper course it's not just the whole point of this is to get to the supreme court which is nothing i mean there's nothing wrong with preserving issues to get to the supreme court th that's not the only reason because we do think we disagree that the current state of the laws is sufficiently seven to make the constitution out of these laws completely out of the question  legitimate state interest in protection of maternal health in protecting unborn life and promoting respect for life and promoting respect for life and regulate the medical profession now you say it's a regulation not a that our decision in december different panel said that the fifteen week law was a ban and you say it's just a regulation is to time and manner does that mean mississippi could pass a law saying you can't get an abortion before or after four weeks into a pregnancy or i think you would have to look at each law i think you have to look at each legislative act as it is passed i believe that  that's the that's what due process farms but the most significant point i think is that this law would be a law that would not be permissible well mississippi's admitting privileges law which the effect of which would have been to close the only  preventing abortion after fifteen weeks would would shut down all the clinics because there wouldn't be you know something you don't even realize that the pregnant women can go to an abortion clinic in that time with that if it had that same effect on shutting down might have the effect of closing the state's only twenty so it's not controlling but that is one situation that's one case where this court held that there was a new birth is caused by one of mississippi's law supreme court explicitly confront this balancing in k c we don't know all the whole point of case after that is after a certain point in time then you can have that balancing but before then it's just a absolute you cannot have any sort of band at all as the whole point of mississippi laws just basically change the date that the supreme court has set for you to acknowledge you think this report presents wrong and you have absolutely every right to seek search but what you have  the fetus will survive to tar so this law protects the very unborn lives that have a ninety five to ninety eight percent chance of coming becoming full to our children you had rule against us on all points but we think that the serious reservations you expressed in you know you would have preferred to which i understand sir you would have preferred to when i understand what you are i'm a lawyer i would like to win but  reservations that you expressed about the approach taken by this report we think were enough to show that it was an abuse of discretion not to least consider the state's interest and how this law it dances that what's your best case for the proposition that the district had no choice but they had to accept the evidence even though the supreme court precedent would seem to require a particular result on the merits because as courts must consider those or even the court ultimately rejects those matters those are the state's evidence refuses to consider is evidence nonetheless we think the court should allow development of a record that state from ever presenting evidence of how the laws advances the state's interest we think the court needs to say that directly rather by implication of course this court has recognized another abortion cases that  it to be then an abortion after fifteen weeks unconstitutional because it's a ban on abortion or viability the court then deny the state's requests for rehearing on bond and just last week and here today the state has agreed that that decision control activity to the extent the state's argument is our gang activity is the better standard than five believe that argument is foreclosed by supreme court precedent which has drawn the line at viability and and the reason the line has has a reasonable likelihood of sustained survival independent from the woman survival that the state that could come in presumably and carry on that is not true at all at the point at which the fetus may have cardiac activity do argument in the supreme court and if he did the way here and said that before liability is for the woman and not the state to weigh the various facts and interests that the and make the ultimate decision unless the panel has additional that the district court applied here this on june december th excuse me the same day that the panel released its decision in j one the six circuit decided to take the case on and judge will casey change the game to be sure to join if the state of mississippi said no one will ever get an abortion in this state period that would be unconstitutional on or that would be subject to this i'm sorry that would be like the sojourner t case where this standing issue other than that i don't see out your medical is going to implicate this well john mattick medical is going to speak to how the undue burden test should be applied how it should be considered and certainly every word of every abortion cases from the supr that the clinic can represent the views of women on that issue president ford has long said if you're talking about a ban women who are going to a clinic to get an abortion obviously have an interest aligned with the clinic in wanting to allow maybe someone you know that they have different views on how fetal relation be disposed whereas here i mean that the longstanding presumption by the supreme court is there is the identity of interest between a clinic and the