made please the court i want to symbolically stand up on this podium and shout i filed this case in new york state supreme court that's where i wanted the case that's where i was familiar with the rules and that fact i believe hovers around all of the other issues in this case the defendants remove this case to this court automatically with different rules different procedures different e c f filing requirements and then they not only for lack of a better term screw up the e c f filing rules of this court they fail to correct these errors and i can i ask you something which i'm having trouble understanding you spent a lot of time as i read your brief saying that the district court and correct me if i'm misunderstanding that the district court should not have entertain the pelleas motion to compel arbitration given that it was not properly filed on the district court on the electronic docket but where was the w the prejudice i don't see the prejudice where was the prejudice iran and didn't didn't you at the end of the day ultimately file a response in opposition to the motion yes i did your honor and i was not aware of these errors that occurred until i filed my appeal and then i personally came to this court on several occasions so in your in your just so i'm clear in your opposition to the motion below did you  you that it was improperly filed and thus should not be considered your honor in all candor i didn't even find out till nine months later till i came here to perfect my appeal so you are correct your honor it did not affect me it did not hurt me it did not prejudice me however when i came to this honorable court to file my appeal and the clerk told me on multiple occasions that their motion for dismissal was not properly e you mr air attack us cannot make it part of your record therefore you can't argue from that i don't you're saying that and again if i'm misunderstanding you know you're exactly on so far you're saying that the motion to compel arbitration was filed the defectively and therefore the attached exhibits including the relevant contracts should not have been considered below your your honor that's a back up argument and in all candor again you're honest if i say that then what it is what is it that we're supposed to consider how can we consider anything your honor on the merits of this i believe i should win however based upon the research that i've done and the e c f filing errors in the case law i have found in that regard and the appellate mistakes that they have made i believe i should also be winning on a technicality because the e c f filing was wrong you are absolutely correct that in the lower court i was not prejudiced i didn't even know they made an e c f filing error until nine months later i came to recover and retrieve the docket so i could file an appeal and then wanted to move to main arguments since this is a back up thank you your honor i do believe the though that they are bound to follow the e c f filing rules of the court that they themselves shows and i believe they're trying to say it's a harmless mistake just so that to be very clear my argument is very very brief there are three different era tax parties in this case my uncle manny or emanuel or attack us was a ninety year old blind maker of the will and i'm the executor of his will and i'm john r attackers the third era taxes alexander ever attack us who works for the appellant first financial he was their stock broker power of attorney trustee tax advisor beneficiary of a will and a trust and someone who i had to have alleged in the complaint to have taken stolen or misappropriated hundreds of thousands of dollars and he submitted an affidavit in support of their motion saying yes our uncle was blind but he wasn't totally blind and i would have it that he's completely conflicted he has a fight do shiri obligation to emanuel or attack us into the will into the trust into his accounts and now because he's conflicted by its own employer and asked to give an affidavit he's their main witness in support of th but i will say to get right to your point your honor about the underlying facts of this case i think there's no dispute here that they say when you open the account the opening of the account contract said this is subject to arbitration and the arbitration agreement is going to follow in the mail in a few days and we have documentation and records in the case that they sent my ninety year old blind uncle the arbitration agreement a few days later by regular mail that he never agreed to never signed off on yes now you're getting to the question the original agreement a question is under new york law is the fact that the original agreement spoke of arbitration enough to constitute a contract to arbitra i think you've you've walked into this fundamental issue in this case there is no meeting of the minds on the specific arbitration language it doesn't follow until it's a regularly mails have to  be so so i'm interested in this question because does it have to be that this had to be a meeting of the minds on the specific arbitration language war is it enough that you sign something understanding that you are signing a contract that has an arbitration agreement the binds you to arbitration which vend the arbitrators would decide that right i'm going to wander around that don't don't wander answer the question i want to come i want to come back to it and so my question i believe that the equities in this case that you have to look at the entire global picture of equities it's a matter of what our law is and what new york law contract is as to when an the agreement to arbitrate is not there then it is up to a court to say there has not been an agreement to arbitrate if it is uncertain it is up to the court to decide and whether of a district court decided that or not is a question because it did speak to it but if equities ip nothing to do with that because the arbitrator's can be just as equitable perhaps more equitable than we are i believe the courts in new york state say that when you do have an arbitration provision you better write it very specifically you better be very cautious about it you better set it out in detail you better let the person know what they've gotten into what if  believe that the new reports is there a citation generally my research has indicated that these arbitration provisions i know this i want some new york case that says that look there was and was actually signed to in given that was not your honor the only way i can answer that without knowing all of the laws in the case law on that point is by saying hypothetically what if the arbitration provision said if you lose arbitration you have to give us your firstborn son and daughter how can you be subject to something that follows later on that that suits it's not contractually binding and also i don't i want to say this the maker of the contract is this large corporation they drafted the language they had their procedures my uncle signed something he was blind you can see the signatures never come close to the line and they want you to say that his nephew explained it to him explained arbitration explain documents would be coming in the mail and they'd hand someone a form and they signed the form in under the circumstances i'm sorry to say your honor i apologize for not having the case law i i throw myself on the mercy of the court to know that there is case law that overall the context of this case is that they did not follow their own procedures they hand the customer something that says we're going to bind you later on to a whole bunch of things that come in the mail later on i think one thing i'm not i'm not clear about as i understood you to be challenging the i believe i challenge that i believe i set out i had a plethora of objections to the entirety of the circumstances of my uncle being exploited his money being told and not by the appellant by by their employee will tell you later good morning your honor may it please the court my name is jonathan the airman and i'm here on behalf of pelleas your honor the supreme court in this court for more than fifty years have consistently favored a policy of enforcing arbitration agree or very is an arbitration agreement and the question that i want to know is did the district court find that the arbitrator that the mention of arbitration we've details to follow now that is a question basically of new york contract law and i don't know that the district court found that so we could do one of three things we can send it back to the district court and say make a finding on this we can say on the basis of what we know this is enough or not enough or what was what the district court was asked to look at by appellate appellant as the chief correctly identified below cifelli attacked the contract as a whole the validity of the contract he certainly did yes or and as he did here spent a great deal of time talking about that but ultimately the question is did he also in the middle of all this other stuff which would not go to  issue also raise of it issue adequately because he tells us of it he did and then goes on and talks about all the other stuff but the good one can understand perhaps why the district cour didn't specifically answer of that question if that question was asked and then many other things but if the question was asked then we have a right to have an answer to it and this we can give you answer in your honor let me tell you what the with the evidence below the record below in the record before this court shows there are two arbitration there are two contracts the mr r attack assigned to not this mr talk us but the account holder in two thousand and eight in two thousand and ten there is no argument below or argument here that the two thousand and eight agreement is invalid and in the two end in both agreements the two thousand and eight and two thousand and ten agreement in both agreements the following language is found it says i further knowledge that i have read and understand the bre dispute arbitration clause located on page seven in paragraph thirty five of the cash account agreement section of the customer  agreed to resolve any disputes arising out of my account by arbitration when he signed that what did he have is there any evidence about what he and he had the this account agreement your honor which is supplemental appendix page thirty three and nothing more than that he did not have the later documentation of what arbitration was which he nunda list signed that he arbitrate regardless of whether he saw was misled or whatever about anything else that is correct your honor additionally the us about new york state law on the law the circuit in the case that we sided packet in one case the the court held that the signatory is presumed to be balanced by the terms of another document increase specifically incorporated by reference in the agreement that that party signed and i would submit to your honor that's exactly the situation here even if he says he saw it in correct your honor that every case didn't involve that i mean you can sign said that if the document to be incorporated by reference is clearly referenced in the agreement that you sign then that is sufficient for you to be bound by that and because the agreements that mr our attackers signed both in two thousand and eight in two thousand  specifically referenced the page and line number of the subsequent customer information brochure that provided additional information about the arbitration i would submit that he is what on by the innocence rationale for the practice if it is a practice it's a great question your honor and i finish my star what is the rationale for the practice of sending the brochure us afterwards why not have the brochure it's available at the time  that the person is considering whether to sign so your honor in hope that's still a great question it is still a great question in this scenario your honor you have we have two different parties we have the clearing firm and the introducing firm and i know this court is familiar with the difference between the clearing firm and the introducing firm in this instance the clearing walk us through it sure in the traditional large wire houses merrill lynch goldman sachs u b s they have both the front office and the back office in other words i think of it like a car dealership you're on or you go and you meet the sales person but when you're actually consummated the deal you go on the backs back office and you sign the paperwork not you you want but in for smaller broker dealers for smaller firms that do not have the capability of printing out account statements and don't have the capital to custody customer accounts they have to contract with what are called clearing firms in this case it is south with securities now known as hilltop securities because of the smaller introducing firms like first financial cannot and do not want to have the burden of creating their own account documents that meet the requirements of the c the stock exchange and now finra they were lined the clearing firms to provide to them stock account agreements and other opening documents for all of the variety of services that the firms revive  introducing firm continues with their customers in this case in two thousand in two thousand and ten the introducing firm in this case first financial provides the account opening documents to the customer the customer signs and then that goes to the clearing firm the clearing firm assigns an account number and let's see introducing firm no that we've opened the account number we've opened the account on behalf of your customer and we are sending out to your customer all of the other required information why do you ask the person you say that they have received what they have yet received so yeah i understand the procedure and the case would look like them or not because i don't care now but what is before us is an odd situation we have a person is saying i am bound because you have to see some things which i haven't seen that that i don't quite see the russian now for doing that i mean i understand the two step thing but i don't see the rationale for asking him to sign and say something which isn't in your other i can't explain that right now i can tell you as i understand it even if we were to discard the brochures there still would be a valid agreement that's correct your honor because it's a language because of the language that are provid i further acknowledge that i have read and understand the predisposed arbitration clause located on page seven in paragraph thirty five of the cash account agreement section of the customer information brochure and agreed to resolve any disputes ar ising out of my account by arbitration but the first part is not true because they haven't read it and so you are saying that the second clause i agree to  arbitration even vote follows a statement which is not so who are that's correct your honor i would submit that in this case however the new york new york law would would support a fine in the customer information brochures even received after the fact would also support arbitration have we have no we have no information about new york law and the district court in making its fin s didn't ask for briefing a new york law or any date to your pillow and you know it may be that new york law is as clear as you say but how can you ask us of the first to your first point i don't think the judge force address it in her order because it was not properly before the court the taxes to the validity of the two thousand and ten agreement before the district i think it interprets new york law i don't know if it's decisive in this case your honor i don't think i have that in front of me but i can i can certainly look at that and submit anything ninety one  can certainly take a look at that your honor i would also well past my time i don't have an answer any other questions a pan of might have thank you thank you we've grilled you very heavily thank you for honors i believe that if it affirms the lower court this court would be making a finding adverse to the customer to the little guy to up elderly blind gentleman in spite of the fact that they're admitting to you that they engage in some bad practice in spite of the fact that they're admitting you could you answer me one question yes or when and you retained that argument and i want to know where in your argument to the district court did you say something which would have alerted the district court in some way one page contract should have been read to my uncle and it should have said at the bottom of it this has been read to this man because he has a vision impairment or is blind i made that what you it's the best answer i've got your honor it's the best answer because i do not recall every point i made in the brief i felt very very frustrated by one fundamental principle which is it appears that everyone involved in the legal system from the top to the very bottom says arbitration send it off there when when it's just send it off we are bound by the supreme court  my esteemed colleague this fine gentleman said i believe can sum up the entire argument your honors i really can't explain that right now that was his answer to the question and i believe that that's paramount to this entire proceeding thank you thank you thank you both for your arguments the court will reserve decision the final