procedures from the conference room if there is an emergency we can either go out for the way we came or we can exit through these two doors here but we should all meet in the south parking lot which is right behind me held at the police station second floor community room at nine hundred next time on the agenda interest oh and yeah it's come to my attention that our law firm m s k attorneys has a conflict of interest with this particular projects i'm going to have to recuse myself and seeing as it's the only item on the agenda i think i'm going to find my way out there because you don't have to wait  at the masterplan you know a year and a half ago it's just good good i stop you right there because i'm having you know i must be having a brain failure i don't remember six multi with are always six multifamily somehow in my mind there were two eighty foot high holy family buildings and that was it but no no we always had vision for the master plan there were six footprints that we had provided that actually aren't aren't too dissimilar to well ok i mean no one else was having my problem so i also remember what you saw i also remember two huge buildings that's what we were  but you're right later stages it became yeah i think maybe what you're thinking of is the the massing that we've shown you that was you know you go those were the buildings that so you know as we discussed the master plan level we were the underlying zoning allowed for four hundred fifty eight overall units one hundred eighteen of which are included in the first phase the residential neighborhood which left three hundred forty remaining available for use and so in the current plan we're showing three hundred twenty two multifamily apartments across the six buildings and a combination of four stories over a podium base or so over a park you know for months a year and a half two years ago at this point so it's going to have a residential neighborhood that segues into you know higher density multifamily and again realizing the the underlying density of the overall which primarily is our twelve zoned there are three zones that encompass this but it's primarily our twelve so this gets us pretty close to realizing the full density when you were in we discussed the possibility of you flexibility to swap commercial space for residential units no it was really the the not meeting the full three hundred forty available units is really it's a current site plan that's you know it's somewhat limited by the site conditions you're built into a hillside there's only so much parking you can realize we have  plan that again is four stories over a podium base and three stories over a podium is depending on the building whereas originally we had talked about five and four stories over a podium base so you know there is some potential where you know maybe if the at the board feels that it's appropriate we could look at going higher with the buildings we thought that the plan that we're proposing now allows for a nice transition we you know had some pretty extensive conversations with with staff about the transition coming from the particularly on the southwest side of kennedy as you approach the kemble intersection and kind of how you transition from some of those two story condominium structures if there's a three story lancaster but it's pushed all of it back from the road so you know it's primarily wind ridge on the east side of the road how you transition from that to a three story over podium structure and then we build a little bit as we get closer that campbell section group thank you so the eighteen units you're not going to come back in the future is when we had originally submitted this we had said approximately three hundred twenty two units you know staff recommended we more or less approximate a more specific you know what i would like to suggest is that you know we're still in the only sketch plan application and will continue to refine our plans going forward so we'd like the opportunity  ahead of our projected velocity in terms of sales we started our marketing and sales a little bit behind when we originally anticipated because of you know there was a lot of site work was a pretty brutal winter so we really started marketing heavily last march so i think their perception from the buying public has been very positive and i think that the neighbors have also received it well since they've seen what we've been putting up don't we have a time when there's or isn't there a standard time frame between the granting o for completion of final approval if you want to say it was eight i think originally it was five and the push to have a longer just based on market conditions i don't you know i don't see that happening at this point but you never know what happens two just to be clear so where we are in terms of the construction those those three cul de sac streets as you've you climb the hill we have we've released the two lower streets and we're also building the townhome so if you have the for sale product so it was always intice a period that well would be staggered it would be running concurrent with the build out of the but you're you have enough confidence in the market so you're not worried about your sales are now you know we're feeling signalized intersections so this climbs the hill that's two brothers drive there which then connects on the right there pretty far along here as well so this is the phase that we're talking about right now which was included in that original master plan there's six subdivided commercial slash mumbai family lots there again trying to realize the higher density that is the architecture and how they enter the system to lead to have that view because it leads me to something that my wife told me to be concerned i remember being impressed with the you know the quantity of recreation in green space she had here but here's the question you have an eight year old kid on the top floor of your most remote fought multifamily project i'll find out i have to go to find a place to play ball to play ball or to recreate the play ball let's say to play pool i don't know where the closest no community ball field is not a form and how about playground facilities put you through all these in that that kind of formalized park that there is playground facilities we've actually spectum out with the city improving with the city and that's so there is actually apparatus there and so are just kind of clarified so there's a there's a retaining wall on the the east side of that just forms that football there and it's going to rustic staircase that climbs up there but right in front of there is the playground apparatus so i think i think a third of a mile here i'm channeling jennifer koch i think a third of a mile is again i don't know who you think is going to live here but let's assume it's families with little kids  a thirty mile is a long truck for a housewife with a six year old and a four year old who wants to get to the playground so i guess my question is what's the potential well they would  area for a little more air you know they look pretty tight and it could be so there's a proposed outdoor facility for attendance at the top of the hill which is substantially closer which would include a pool way i mean i would suggest that a third of a mile probably isn't too far to be going particularly since there's nothing else anywhere in the vicinity over the years it's been built out for this you see given a scarcity that should be grateful well i think i would be even now that's just just jennifer cold all right well i mean we have that with jennifer and her community and she has a point of got out no we actually had spoke with her a great length about this project in she agreed and actually walk in all the time well i think there's also you know there's there's land that is immediately adjacent to that is it's still open and there's opportunity for other recreational facilities there's also a pool which is probably four to five hundred feet from the furthest apartment and that building will also have you know all sorts of tenant amenities that we listed in the application you know speaking from the perspective of someone with a three year old i much prefer the idea of a pool to a swing set my kid would love a pool and then she has if she has a swing so that's an outdoor pool you know i would i would also suggest that the you know the demographics of the residential community i mean we designed it to appeal to a broad demographic broad buying demographic price point and also kind of in the age range and yet we're seeing that play out the way we have played it is sort of an organic mix where you have young professionals you have young families with little kids families with kids in elementary school some better in high school and then you have a lot of empty nesters i would suggest that you're probably going to see more children in residential single family in town on neighborhood than you probably are going to see in the the apartments let's not say there are going to be any kids but it is probably more likely that you'd see more kids there which would be closer to the  sense so any other comments on that front acquiescence is what we support the residential spaces it's you know again i would say it's a subordinate use to the residential uses it could be in any one of the buildings but in reality it's a many that supporting all of them it's a more efficient way to use it it's a better use of the land  the second building that's a nonresidential is just a commercial building we are allowed up to forty five thousand square feet of commercial space is much smaller again there are slight restrictions and you know this could be a variety of things it could be a leasing office it could be a small office space you know potentially you know as as things progress with the land of element regulation overall maybe there's a coffee shop or something like that that's an amenity that supports you know having this number residence there but i think the question really comes down to more the tenant amenities space on the top of the hillside how that's looked at by the city i think the staff had you know we had suggested one way to look at it saf and suggested another way to look at it i don't know if you guys want to sponsor staff wants to problem because you could have multiple principal structures on one lot in a few days so you don't need to be an accessory structure it does however need to be considered accessory use because all the other definitions that it could fall under are not allowed in the zoning district so we've included the definition of accessory use and if the board feels that appropriate to consider for the purposes of this definition the p m t of the law rather than the actual well i think that there is the building's not one hundred percent planned out but the height can and can go up if the setback were different and so i think you know if you have a lot of time there is a lot of  know this use you know if you look at it and you may smirk at this but if you look at all farm road there are three existing pools with pool structures on individual residences this is amenity that's the same as those it's just being offered to more residents and it's it's so the the fifth comment really comes down to the height issue you know there's a thirty five foot height restriction or limitation in this area obviously we're not proposing thirty five foot buildings which is consistent with what we've always said in order to achieve the underlying density we have to go vertical it's better better land use honestly to go vertical and actually during the masterplan phase you know the board pushed us to say well how are you going to realize the zoning we've provided some elevations and some renderings again there are conceptual at this point but i think they're they're pretty representative of what the plan is kind of the overall style that first plan shows you where the pictures are  taken if you just scroll back up and i'll show you like you know each view is labeled so you can kind of see where the perspectives are coming from where those little red cones are so the first one is that red cone on the right skewed me on the  top right and those two and then the second one will be the one to its left so this is looking straight up two brothers drive off of kennedy so this is essentially standing on the rec path on the west side of the street looking up the hill and the the gray sky that gray kind of it's that's sort of a placeholder for this potential commercial building so you know we don't have any architecture for that but again it could be a leasing office it could be you know it could be our office space it could be  office space to someone else could be a coffee shop eventually so this is the view here is as you're driving north on kennedy and so this is showing on the right side of the photo a three stor building over a podium base so that you can see there that would be parking structure down where the cursor is and then you have three stories of residential above it and again that was in attempt to create a little bit of transition you can see from the architecture were sort of trying to break down the massing a little bit different color palettes across the building different materials you know trying to create some sort of just massing differentiation and then on the other side so on the north side of two brothers drive that is a four story residential structure over a podium base so kind of gives you a feel for how those two area interact these are these are not designs for the buildings it's just placeholders for the design no i would say you know this is this is the direction that the architecture is headed in well says a lot let me put it this way there's a lot of mess collectively it's a lot of mayors control it covers a lot of land these buildings are not beautiful beauty given th beauty is in the eye of the be old there are these buildings are not beautiful at least in my opinion it doesn't count toward the vote it's not going to stop me from so whether they do or don't comply with the regulations come up some architecture i mean you know we're we're less boxy more height variety taller one place less tall another place a little more complicated maybe a pitched roof here and there  as a design because it's not going to be in conflict or  notice this is a rendering looking from old far o'brian farm road so this is the road that's entirely townhomes duplexes and approaching a three story building on the you know so for for example when you look from the top which we're going to get to a couple renderings i would be interested i mean so if you could describe as we go through these what's the maximum height of these between the house and the road ok and does that sort of hide the gradient change that looks like it's occurring there or is that it would go you know down they will go down the hedge will go down the hill long the side of the house and i don't have that plan here but and also i mean all of that would get looked at there's going to be an extensive landscaping requirement as part of this decision and so that would certainly be part of it just you know for reference all of the homes on the existing for they're really oriented east west because there it is is a pretty dense neighborhood so they're proximate to one another so you're not really designing to have a lot of windows pointing to the next  over because you know you're twelve feet a proper far from the next house so while you know there you are kind of budding right up against that it's not oriented in that way and if you know i encourage any of you that want to come out for a tour show you an actually works really well they're flooded with natural light but it's again it's east west light as opposed to north south l but in that instance on the left we did use that very roof height to sort of allowed that transition into the fourth story but i guess i would just say that it were knowledge and have some work to do to try to make that who is mr honey locust so yet specific trees i mean they can it's not a big deal to amend the plan if a landscape architect feels that they're not perfect but johnny you're referencing you may want to think about those species just just because you may want something higher and broader to buffer that because that's a big change but  so this gives you a feel for the scale of that ten of the many building which again is placeholder protection but also you know the scale of the buildings from really from old farmer this is this is the view that i thought you know it's not going to be long i mean in terms of life times before those trees or are much told those are the old ones and actually i mean if you you know if you had gone up there and we show this previously if you want up there prior to us you know starting to  road sort of the highest single family road as you're coming around the corner to head back down towards kennedy and so that's a three storey building and here is like a two story building because of the piracy going around the corner the one thing i would also say you know this doesn't apply to the broader community but to the public that has come through our sales center people that have been perspective purchasers and people that have actually purchased we have been very consistent on communicating you know what the next phase of development is and we have a we have a bird's eye view of the overall development with six large and there are actually large new buildings were posing showing exactly where they're going the proximity to them and the overall scale of them so it's not as though folks don't know this is coming we want to be very clear no improve frankly for you know undeveloped land body clichy i mean in this location i mean i honestly think they're a little could we get rid of maybe one building and do five believe i'm only half kidding i mean you've got a you've got a parking density problem right that's really what's driving the  mean it's not to say that we you know there can be some adjustments made and maybe one building or two buildings get higher and so you create a little bit more site plan space and you keep the the unit count roughly the same you're probably not going to ramp up your density considerably higher and like i said you know would like to pick up a couple more units and that might be some tweaks really what we're kind of reacting to is you know this is higher than anything around it so we're trying to be a little bit sensitive and provide transition into something more and i have been a bunch of these neighborhoods fairly recently because my daughter was out looking for her in wisconsin and they look like this on the backside of them with there will be a fitness place and a and i appreciate that and again i think that you know we're not stopping here you know that's the message we'll communicate will we not to plan this first section we're already working on on the balance of the land but the plan is that you have these different different styles of housing and different amenities different commercial spaces that are supporting the different styles of of architecture and living style so ideally over time you get a much more organic feel to the neighborhood as opposed to just saying you know it's fifty five and over it's just a young professional neighborhood or whatever so you can get everybody coming interacting a true community will be along voice for not doing i don't think your lo so the the next question is the piece standards so i think there's a few things here want to which is you know the height comes into it the one thing that i do want to point  out which is kind of in the preamble to getting into the different comments on peter's standards is is the point about the traffic study so when we when we proposed the initial master plan and then i was we proceeded through sketch preliminary and final plot with one hundred eighteen units we had one traffic study that encompassed the entire build out of the full master plan of this existing master plan sort of four hundred fifty eight residential units plus up to forty five square feet of commercial space and if you recall you know we spent a lot of time actually going back and forth on that i believe there was even a third party engineer i think was actually in the states and because we permitted this through back to fifty as well items traffic circulation but that's true in connectivity and green spaces and you know it was our understanding that the green space that we're providing we're constituting the entire green space for this portion of the master plan again long term and it's probably only going to how much longer before back here presenting something new to you but it is to have a path network throughout the entire site and to have additional green spaces but for the purposes of this we believe that there is enough green space and i wasn't suggesting that i was there to be i'm not suggesting that the overall green space concept is inadequate in any way i mean as a percentage of the total if you're only thinking about it numerically behind us you know behind shaw's unit you know what i'm talking about there for parkway here well nobody thought much about that that it didn't get much consideration and we're looking at those families there and they are hard pressed in exactly the way i was describing the argument is far a park his down the street it's on what street of you can go down the federal park and get plenty of green space but you have it's just not so easy for observably for families with young children to manage that particularly in tough weather you know but in any event for a mother with a stroller with stroller h kids and grabbing another one by the hand to get probably not more than a third of a mile down the road to federal park and across which street not tech great just think of squeeze something in for those mall for those relevant for those multifamily things just to see if there's anything useful you can do stuff whether any of the points on that the open space green space i agree with frank if you can find some spaces to make so good a little pocket pocket is little things for little kids you know with yeah i think that that's i think that that's certainly part of the goal so you know we haven't engaged the landscape architect yet but i think that's a step that certainly abou plat will have all that hashed out as well as how it connects you might remember the stormwater pond area that's closer it does have some green space there's a community garden that's next to that and there's also a series of picnic tables and things that are programmed around that area and actually does look pretty nice we built it last year and i've got some photos of it before that thing all turned into a mud puddle this winter that we could share as part of the next permit to see guess i'm going to feel for yet if you also recall from the master plan process one of the things that we requested were granted to the master plan permit was the ability to propose to use it was is this is a done site and it's a it's a big project so you're going to have a significant landscaping requirement on a pretty dense say plan and so we've made the request to conditionally to propose to you guys can we take some of that landscaping budget if we saw some amenities you know if it's a prevailing or something like that  with your pool area one way or another pretty easily so great so the eight point actually concerns a little bit of that the turn and then the space which is the particular the parking the head in parking as you go around the bend on two brothers drive as you head down towards kennedy right the i think there's eight spaces to the left so to the to the south of the building you know i think those are actually in the existing permit you know doesn't mean that it can't be amended if we find a better la we don't need to define it for them i think there's i think there's a lot of opportunity america you can do a better better layout and outcomes that i think we can work  know i have a suggestion which is that we don't just mumble our way out of this period with that somebody said well let me let me do it i mean we close just you know in th formal hearing and does not result in a binding decision there will be an opportunity for public questions after the board completes there are still discussed of the project members of the public are welcome our courage to ask questions or provide feedback at this very early stage of replication please direct we start working on these things and in four weeks you know we have something else that we'd like to run by you at that point would we then be filing a new sketch plan application and noticing it in order to attend and then might make sense to say and continue for four weeks and at that point if we haven't had anything else come up in trying to sort of accommodate the concerns brought up that we could conclude at  where the amenities space parking locations are i think it's just a bit  the the fifth was problematic for some of the names is that correct ok so the applicant is fine on march nineteenth withholding it then and so more some of the neighbors and