asked to change some language in the civically on you'll see that on the first page there's a couple of changes to the whereas if they're really if you recall last october we accepted the report but we did not prove the report it's a subtle difference we accepted the report but there are a lot of recommendations in the report that are pretty sweeping that would have zeerust and so we want to make clear that we accepted we didn't find any of the recommendations unacceptable but we weren't quite ready to see everything every single recommendation that was in the report immediately implemented and then the second piece was in paragraph two the original one said the manager shall have authority to address the select work in trustees approve recommendations and again we sort of  there's another thing that really did grima what my powers are but i had no knowledge that there was a little bit of confusion and any of these rude reviews process is and next steps would certainly have to come to b endeavors with the departments that are not yet consolidated obviously the person rack there's fire department there are libraries this week this may be a template for future conversation i don't think we really came to a conclusion and i don't see a change to the paragraph so i would like to know either at this point or at the end will redundantly other changes just review with both boards whether comparable five year term things be separated but the budget process if we're separating i'm assuming that that means we're returning the village probably if we're not going to keep it the existing where needed public works in the matter existing at the time of the termination were separating services or functions there may be a budget budgetary aspect of that which would require the cost of public works for the village to be separated from the town budget and add it back into the mil so that would require a vote so i think you can predict the future and i don't know if that would happen but it i think we can say just a quick phrase like and as approved by voters as necessary or as warranted or something january to put together we mourn we we have public hearings all you do all of the all the things that we do to get the body ready for town the is there any concern about having to we need to have any language in there that says you have to have several different abilities ok you can leave things as is as of the day of the agreement but that means as all the things that are done to day to day step which is we don't like the agreement really much at all where we can all hope and redo it or we don't like this piece let's change that piece and so you have those different steps sort of contained within the freedom of the language of the three so total change we need as much time in to the next point in here trying to figure out say october first of october first i think that's all and then so by october first of any here we need to know the other sure to drop here is that there's the town vote could we say we have to go to a vote of the town vote is on a different day the than the village  on yes the original agreement is stated and july one twenty eight you two are the parties to that agreement  of treat right now july wine is new year's day nothing changes it's just different here you're both in agreement that you want do you agree with to continue to go you're both in agreement that you're working on the language assuming excuse in assuming that in the interim between july one twenty eighteen and twenty twenty three should either point wish to make changes it can be brought up and discussed bring up anything that related to your task which is merger and becoming one community i think the other side you were missed if you didn't give you the opportunity address an issue any issue in anything that you're doing together whether it's in this agreement in a department you know policy in procedure be remiss to not want to have a discussion think here's the i think in five years we can complete this work this studies and the proposals after that i don't think there's any more work on the staff young part it's a political decision and i i think you should cross that bridge five years from now and decide if you still need that clause or not and i think after five years the agreement could sunset it could it could  a town wide since there's a lot of confusion as to what town east indies contacts and that way were crystal clear that there would be a town why both the village residents would be invited to as well something back within say week and then redistributed well in advance of the next meeting or six at the table at the next meeting because if the next one it's like third week of july  is it the written policy of the board or a tradition that says you can't do this my understanding verse is that since at a town meeting you're proving  what they're really only talking about the total number but you're talking about a life and it would be at our peril to not take your input is yours erasing but is only that number that you can change that that's the traditional answer this is it statutorily prohibited or is this policy decision made by the board and once that you know it's not written down anywhere it's just a tradition agree with that so we're not there yet and we're going to have to hopefully get there but we've been on this public works consolidation for a number of years now and it's disgusting that tell meeting for those that intended it we walk budgetary issue for both the village and town our budget process is open to the public at all times and we have to have public hearings before the budget gets to you again you mean there are every year regardless of what we're talking about there are multiple meetings where the public can come and hear what we're doing and talk about it and in this particular case because it was something unusual that we were doing we wanted to educate the public as much as possible and both boards took the opportunity to do public outreach and you might not you might remember that some select board members showed up at basketball games with a table and and i hand out with the information and there was a lot of public outreach and there  lot of discussion of it in the essex reporter but that was extra outreach because it was an unusual thing for doing but every single budget process has multiple hearings and multiple opportunities for the public so yes we have a public participation issue in that it's very very low for lower than most towns in the entire state but you know we're addressing it within all the legal means that we have to be is that when it comes to vote there's going to be a significant number it just doesn't know and is going to vote against it so i would suggest that you work there trying to figure out definite impressions of the words the select words impressions and staff there was also a document staff's definitions and we reviewed all of them together and these definitions here are an a and in many cases we reviewed all of the definitions and said that one by this is this particularly perfect let's use that in most cases it's it's an amalgam of multiple people's definitions and we didn't want to get super prescript we just wanted to you know find the appropriate definitions for the terms as they relate to this conversation of consolidation so that's it that's what we did if you have any questions or want to know we arrived at a particular ones we can try to explain that one or two of them required three of them four of them required multiple will sometimes the word has more than one meaning so four words in this plus residents but under that we want to emphasize all of us at the table need to be very specific when we're using the word to make sure that when you're talking about whatever it is you're talking about whether it's staff have in any big undertaking where you're going to have you know reorganization or creation of something new and there's multiple participants from different perspectives it's really a good idea to identify any potential pitfalls in terms of defining things because you don't want to get deep into a conversation and realize that this person is talking about one thing this person is talking about something please different but they're both using the same or so any big process like this should have a common language and so these were the words that the trustees the select board in the staff identified as the most important vocabulary of this conversation comes up consolidation so as well as maintaining or improving the quality of service delivery i always get nervous when i see that because it's frequently interpreted to mean no lessening of services is there i mean i think that looking we're looking at consolidation we also need to need to consider what we're going to stop doing with this definition doesn't allow for that if you interpret this to say we have to have the same level so you can still have quality services you can still maintain quality services but do fewer of them but the way this is frequently interpreted the way i've seen it done before the ball with the record governance discussion always came up that we can't take anything away from it but i really really think that they were doing ourselves a disservice if we don't also look at things that we want to stop doing or that don't make sense to do in the context of a consolidation good the other answer i would have to that is when you're thinking about that phrase you have to look at the definition of it appropriate level of services which is a separate definition but it's related and is up to the community about you know what they expect what they need they want what they're willing to pay for just you can say that the whole the whole concept of it's very vigorous it's very subjective and for us to quantify what's direction but examination is more about when you're together how does it work how does that and not changing policy to walk and how we do it as long as the service different policies and service levels and have conversations and give directions that's how i look at whether we're together or separate you should always work things out how we're doing maybe maybe there's one less sidewalk in every street you know but that for our understanding that we talk about consolidation here's what we've seen and if we need something different with whatever the phrase we're going to work maybe we all just you can be it just it's been my experience as i said when i was on the i was beholden in the right study committee that there that that phrase was in there and it was frequently referred to as we can't stop doing anything that we're currently doing today and i i i do not agree that that that we should have that phrase in there that we need to just because we've always done it that done here we need to continue doing every service that we provide today it's just my my i would strip that i would strike that phrase completely as well as maintaining or improving quality of service delivery we we addressed low level of services in the prior definition i don't think it gets to a specific service that we would not be able to stop or she we needed to and one thing we need to  i think we need to know something about service to mean in quality and here and so maybe reference appropriate level of services in the consolidation so this way what can then compose an alternate option would be just to say as well as maintaining quality of what you know period of performance of some service levels of service of the roads quality is an important aspect of this one of the reasons why we're doing this is to maintain a long break but i think if you don't see equality of what i think you're getting i think we're hearing through different perspectives your you wrote it from the respect it doesn't really and i think what your way is written is is to say the intent here is that yes we may change a lot of things we may change structures in how things are done but overall we're going to maintain that generally love lowball the view that the average citizen records goals or whatever and so there was no way no discussion about stopping anything that's why and that's i mean i understand all the words are all the words can you do this that's why we were doing this right because there's words the persons who make up a body for the purpose of administering a set policy an exercise authority i do have to the electorate doesn't the structure of said persons also isn't that also part of governance because it's here that the news that you're next ok transparency it says is the ability of people groups and organizations outside the government to obtain complete accurate timely information of the activities of the government i think if we inside the government also official yes so you but you're the government but you're saying you know that access yourself i did nothing i did not say i don't have access to myself i just want to make sure that i've not had there's no barriers to my ac i'll tell you all year i understand what you are saying and the pastor had this song village politicians and folks who would like to try to you know charge people to go to the library but it has been a longstanding policy that once and we get a lot more hits showing up than who is sell records where they give a little bit of a priority or they get a break in service to families within the village but families outside the village in the in the town still have access to those programs or they may have to pay a little bit more well that's what i mean i live outside the lease and i have no problem paying for services provided by those who fail i think what the problem one might run saying a little bit for example planning communities and all that in the village we have our own planning and community development department in the mill we paid an entirely for that in the village of we also tiredly by our within the village but we also contribute to the town's capital but i think it's those kinds of things where you hear when you hear village village people talking about tax equity yes that's the real guts that we're getting here is that we're late it's it's deliberately unspecific because for example it could be all of the knowledge staff and town staff are reporting to a single unified manager the public works staff in the knowledge of the town are reporting to their individual managers but at some point they're going to report to one manager at some point it's possible that these two more is will be one more and it will be one of the already so we wanted to not comprehensive they are you know there's multiple meanings in multiple contexts and and so meanings and the purpose of these definitions was to help these two words communicate clearly to each other and because we have had trouble in the past misinterpreting each other's words and using the same words for different meanings so initially the purpose of these definitions to help us communicate more clearly it will definitely be helpful if as jerry suggested we publish those definitions for sure but i would not say that they are the end all and be all of meaning for this conversation and over time as we become working versus with them in the give evan goals we have to give them to him in a time when he can actually achieve those goals and i did notice that there was a wonderful list of goals and i'm wondering if we could just pick something where you think is that a possibility and we were going to probably talk to the select work tonight during sort of if we get to the point was so open discussion about if someone they would like to join with us in having a kind of a provisional meeting with the manager to begin the and so that is something that we anticipate getting getting hugo i think whether that's actually going to be her goal of the manager is something that the board would have to decide it's possible but i think that's where we are right now kind of for the sort of board members who running in any way shape or form within the next six months and therefore i would suggest since we have to do pulls together we do things that are achievable and are is the smart goals and john room i appreciate the understanding to extend the twenty thousand deadline for stablish in defining and prioritizing goals and performance objectives until august first second  where we where we left off last  outside the village being exit trying to execute the village charter is potentially extending religious funds that might not be acceptable under general statutes they just can't vote that you can't just have probably the if you really get a solid answer would probably be significant legal research on her part probably the part of another lawyer and they and they may get even know the answer because it's probably unprecedented so it might that dissolving the village and town charters means you have to you've got tens of millions of dollars worth of property streets that you have to figure out where is new charter you're going to move this to and that's the work that we're about is trying to figure all this stuff out just no way we can accomplish that but the idea that the prospect before us is that we were going to spend the next three four years while it ministration is trying to consolidate or align services  that we were going to try to solve this this overarching problem and but at the same time each this network has to keep running it executing its charter is found charter the trustees have to keep executing the bills charter and then we have to keep having a joint meetings like this one and it seems like that could potentially be an exhausting schedule to keep of the next four years i think with the idea of there as a way of us seeing if we can all come together and maybe the company meeting lives and i know that you talk to the village attorney and you talk c b l c t to gain i think an even more knowledgeable source of information is not to mention that secretary of state's office and i would like to propose that we i would be much happier with will basically just stay intact and will slowly dismember the village and new pieces of the village into the general and that's consolidation that's not with the school districts did they created a new entity and both sides moved all their if we don't have clarity we could be wait a second or that's not what i thought so maybe we want to make sure that we have some clarity on this is the fundamental question what is it that we're doing we are do we think that we're creating a new chartered community and we're going to move everything into that new charge of unity or do we think we're anywhere basically trying to figure out how to take all the stuff that's in the village move it into the town does anyone have thoughts about this he did not and i feel extremely strongly that village are the experts in that district but every one of us at large and every thing that's town why if there is an issue with the geraghty or some other village entity the former trustees still trustees whatever they're call votes on that issue when the outside the town outside the village burning ordinance or something else that right now has nowhere to administer it comes up there will be five people from outside the village who for the first time in under twenty five years can actually has an opening in september i really hope you will call far and wide and have whatever expert you can find here i'm delighted if i'm driving back from vacation i don't want to not have an attorney here just to be clear there this is it this is something that's really important to do you want to do  at the last meeting i had suggested that there are enough there's an alternative way to possibly do this that i don't know if it would be legal or not which is why you see the expertise is the the state legislature gives municipalities the ability to contract with other municipalities to provide services so if we form a union mini a school district between the town and the believed there would be some and she can say to all of that there would be some special rules about consolidating lockers but she would keep to look into more but on the on the municipal district she said why would you want to do that and i don't x together is a single a single entity with special circumstances of course to address representation text in all those kind of things as a temporary measure so that you could have that single or scenario without a new charter i give if it's possible and if you go to work at all the details i think you'd have to do i think that would be a question for the attorneys and i would want to to get to your point i mean i think we want to was hoping we would come up with specifically for that i'm really concerned about the amount of work we're putting on the staff and we don't really until very recently use the tool of subcommittees because we're small boards but when we're two boards together it's more feasible it would be awesome to have the l c t come here and the secretary of state's office come here and have a public forum with questions that we can all answer perhaps there could be said committee that they will be welcome but just sort of shifted to make sure that it's not we're not saying you set everything up force and it ultimately we need more years and we need an expert we're the ones who figure out who we call and we bring them with you that we don't say and go get us go fight to somebody because i don't think we need to start with our personal attorney our village in town attorneys yet let's go to the secretary of state and start with them instead because they have the most intimate knowledge of the things we're discussing and that's free we can go sneak an appointment there there's multiple experts in municipal law we can go sit and talk for hours and get the answers to questions that board members had time explore options get our warnings find out everything that we're should and shouldn't be doing and then bring it really what is so fundamental to what why we're doing this and i know you've raised the issue of representation for people outside the village and i mean the question is you know i  village like and don't like and what they think but i have to say i don't have a sense of what folks outside the village and you've raised this issue so i just rode out there as an observation for you guys to wrestle with but maybe down the road  i'm not crazy about it i were going to have ourselves when we started so and and so i'm i'm i'm a little concerned i guess now that you brought this up about voting to form this committee if we're going to have s because we've done a lot and his group have a lot to do too to further of line what we've done so as much as i want to start paying taxes on services that are make a suggestion we hold the july meeting to do the business that we all just piped up about we skip the august meeting let the governance committee do their research and report in september