hypothetical one about with uncertain standards with no no identification of the issues that will be relegated to this ancillary receiving and the fact that what is needed all the demonstration that there really is that we mis the benefits of a class action don't really change because the questions are necessarily individually made as we do this yes if the only issue in this case is the reason of not only but that the issue is reasonable notice of the bill there's not an issue it's not that you paid the reasonable amount of your own there are many individual cases across the entire class where upon close examination there might be an instance where one would work through discovering that in fact the be i take it that that class could be defined that way by this one in a million you don't know about right now he could be excluded and you could have a class you are just to be clear i believe in class to be properly sort of like here under any theory but we know you can ar we also submitted an expert affidavit which details this in atlanta that's in the record zero one two eighty nine we submitted surveys we submitted desk books that are used by practice to set rates the one thing the show is dramatic is substantial variation amongst and between providers and what they believe is an appropriate medical it's ok i ask you this please you're ok you determine the amount of would have bill would be reasonable by reasonable you use statistical or computer formula to come up with that number ninety percent ninety percent of everybody below the ninety five percent true but not not entirely true ok what the recommendation is  took the position that we have our own expert who did his own survey who did everything else and the reasonable out is ninety five percentile could they not proceed under that as a class action as opposed to here's my bill pa cases in which the courts wall and apply on what is a reasonable what is a usual customary medical expense that's what the courts are looking at and that's the policy grounds from our policy promises to pay what is consistent with the case law any trial fair trial this and fair trial these claims the contract that complies with due process must address the individual battles which the supreme court which the case was st determining whether that promise was satisfied were choir's individual evidence and backed by what was the car's condition before what was the car condition afterwards is it different it requires evidence it may require testimony assume that what the defendant is doing is taking all of the l or this truth from similar doctors in this county and determine what's the usual history yep that envision the trial in this case is to mark an exhibit with your client's bill and you've carried your burden of proof and now they say they must now come forward and show that their experts are met a date is  wonder how you don't have to take on in your case in chief using your own expert or your own analysis of their data to say it's wrong and i should have been paid more for well i did say t certification orders that the trial judges did the central focus it seems to be and there are verses as they say here's the bill it's reasonable that's enough for me and you don't make any other show are the judge it doesn't acknowledge any other showing in the that is central to the trial court's determination of a class what does that do to that certification were saying to determine reasonableness in a bill normally has to have been paid for you have to have testimony that it's reasonable that's the individual doctor and we go away all right out there and we just say you can't use that bill to prove reasonable nice and that to me is a lynchpin of how they certified these classes those cases  seems like you could prove reasonable in this one and two ways you could take the individual doctor and say here's my overheard this is what i've been charging for thirty years ok small plane tickets are you come in with your own expert and say i've done this by going to expert in medical billing field and got a ph d in it they were going to church got me in the world right now medicare medicaid everywhere else and this is the reasonable amount of the bill and then maybe you go with a class action but i don't see anything in these certifications doesn't apply the definition reasonable