none the next item is a public comment period for items not on the agenda are there any members of the public here who would like to address a topic that is not on our agenda this evening hearing none the next is action on consent year in the middle of the year we do an update to our work program we usually have a few tasks that have kind of been asked for that have come into the work program or some changes or there may also be a couple  times that i hauled out so in the document the big document i'm not going to walk through it line by line because i care about you too much but there's so if there are any questions on that please let me know and you'll see  in the revised memo we have a few financial tweaks as we were just adjusting some dollars different than what your document says so it's a few thousand dollars in different tasks and the overall budget so i guess first we will have the m p o vote with respect to the maybe or just meant to the u p w p work plan for a further discussion right it was unanimous first municipality that has chosen to do this they were quite extensively with melanie on this and now that the plans been adopted we're able to do it against the standards that the department of public service puts out to determine that it does  or make a motion well my first comment is thanks for all your help and support in getting through this it was interesting that one point of controversy was actually about energy efficiency the select board included a sentence which was quite controversial among some of the planning commission but the voters as a whole approved that time plan so it was an interesting political exercise  case study so thanks for supporting getting to this so i guess i'd ask you in a motion to approve the richmond plan as presented second name and by approval  would mean authorization for me to sign the resolution that's included in the package which makes all of the necessary findings for research and is their second any further discussion possible from the moment that we include a confirmation of their local planning process yes that's in compass within the resolution and anything more one of the next item on the agenda the clean water advisory committee membership guidelines recommendation so there's a memo in your packet you'll remember i'm going to say it was maybe back in the spring or was it the fall off sometime in twenty eighteen yeah there was a discussion yeah well it was right october  at this table of and we adjusted the the quack membership as a board we then asked them to come up with some more guidelines i think they these were some suggestions that were  clean water advisory committee and so this is just coming back to you two for board approval of these guidelines for future non minister  members that was merely you know i was asked the same question because by design these organizations their entire mission is to lobby for water quality so i don't understand how this is how that last one works so maybe you're thinking about a particular organization i'm not sure about this or that was better resolution other than they'd know it when they saw it yes i think you can speak for the for at least one of the people who was that voted i thought four was covered with him one i haven't looked at it john s point of view but that i think that still still sort of applies if you're a lobbyist or near your primary focus is watersheds and from on the need on a fall under under the first of those three of those four categories for lack of a better word and don expressed it pretty well that he didn't think there's any point in limiting the membership and having that fourth one in there as sort of  negative to perhaps keep the membership down wasn't necessary now is my understanding that these are guidelines so it's stuff that is take into account as the quack would evaluate and ultimately the commission would evaluate whether a particular correct members they would only be recommending to the board a member so these are some guidelines for the clean water advisory committee so there's still kind of a double stream happening so we are so ok i mean and i was wondering so if you're a member of the clean member advisory board or voting member we don't have one voting members except for yeah and that was another topic that they they kind of flirted with addressing and then they suddenly from and just decided to approve these four guidelines because that could have been part of the solution would be maybe they're not voting they didn't  recommended these four guidelines i respect the committee's process so that the primary guideline is that they're interested in watershed well and i think number two is and three are both important in that they're trying to have organizations that are actually actively partnering with allergies and furthering or water quality project lobbying can be a dirty word if you want to look at it that way but it's also just a process of what people do these organizations in iraq speaking against them i support them but their whole mission is to lobby for water quality so if their primary that's the distinction yes you can be an advocate without being a lot of b s right and i think the term here probably ties into basically the regulations regarding when you have to register as a lobbyist that is you are lobbying i can go down and testified more with that if that's the interpretation of somebody is registered as a lobbyist but the problem is as you as you well know that work nonprofit organization chain still has a you hear me ok i think it's something to take into account if you had if you know so whether a group is overtly political or somewhat political that will get thrown into the pot with everything else and they'll evaluate it and make their recommendation based on and if it doesn't work well then will test the quack with coming up with better lines or better guidelines and a better acronym next step is the commission on act two fifty the next fifty years and its recommendation is going to be that's true of ceremonies for this just give a little bit of an overview of some of the key points that are made in two proposed legislation one is from the active fifty commission the other is from the administration's propose well we'll talk about this again at the end but essentially what we've got going on is an ad hoc review committee of the board members so this is just an overview that ad hoc committee is going to work for the next two weeks on proposed recommendations for the anybody to chime in a long way sharon very works tons and tons and tons on this is probably pretty well aware of everything and anybody else who's got thoughts please please chime in i really just read through the stuff today this is the most boring presentation lots of words sorry about that only twelve slides and we will see maps that will be the highlight ok so  i didn't have the nineteen appendix with but the commission worked on this quite a bit they did a whole lot of public engagement b p a was pretty active lots of other advisors to the commission were pretty active in getting input to them and so the report summarizes some data points and then goes into recommendations on changes in all areas of the of the so these are some of their findings from the data part of it and it's pretty interesting so we've got some environmental problems still but one big component that kept coming up quite a bit when this was first in acted in one nine hundred seventy there really was not much other environmental regulation at all now we are in a very different environment both  so one important thing i think at least from my hope when we went into this is that there would be some clarifications but we would also  clarifications in terms of what this regulation should be protecting but also where development should happen and i think the latter half of that is lacking from my own opinion again anybody trying to so i think some of the good that's that's in here there is greater emphasis on the importance of regional and local plans the commission proposed bill does indicate that regional plans should be approved in order to come into play at the active fifty perspective as most of you know regional plans are approved by anybody other than the r p c boards themselves with the exception of the enhanced energy designation which is a new a new process so we'll talk about that a little bit so currently in most of our region active fifty is triggered meaning a development has to go to act two fifty if commercial industrial development is on a parcel ten acres or greater or if you're doing a housing development of ten units or more there's a whole bunch of other triggers that kick you in as well but those are sort of  resources and if your proposed development is in one of those natural resource areas then you go to act to fifty the other thought about that is that we would also identify areas where we want to see growth to happen and you wouldn't have to go back to fifty in those areas there is a get into it a little bit more there's a concept of an enhanced designation which plays that second role but we'll talk about that in a little bit that there is a permit release provision so this is centrally means if you have a property that had to get an extra fifty permit the very first time it happened and let's say you're in a growth center and that and if you're doing a change or the new development that you want to do on that lot no longer meet the threshold or the triggers for at two fifty you no longer have to just go to active fifty because the property at some time in its history had to go at two fifty that's kind of the the general concept here is to is to try to bring some coordination and some consolidation between the active fifty permit and here they are permits so some initial concerns the decrease jur really really small limited geographically areas and there's really no accommodation for areas plan for growth so our map that's up on the room to the l everything on that map outside of the green areas in our plan are areas planned for growth the i'll show you this on a map later but the red areas if you can distinguish on that map are some of those state designations and then some of those yellow areas are the village designations but much much smaller area than what we plan for here in our  region so the proposed legislation has the regional plan approval so again this is proposing that if our regional plan has weight in act two fifty it's because it gets approved and the approval body is the vermont environmental review board which this bill proposes is this or replaces the natural natural resource resources board which we have now that that has had some thoughts about this and we've got some concerns about whether that's  right board to approve our plan and ultimately i think we'd really want a lot of collaboration in that process of figuring out how the plans get approved and some some fair representation on the so the state has been and are has been reviewing developments in river court orders so just super super quick a flood plain is the area where a river goes up floods takes up an area this way river corridors acknowledges that rivers move and shift and evolve over time so it's more of the horizontal area that the river needs these maps have been mapped by they have not adjusted that map data and so this proposed legislation really solidify is that they're looking at recorders we're not opposed to it but they've got to be using the right data before a project and it will have that mitigation regime that we currently use with ever cultural soils there's also going to be new sub criteria within criterion eight for forest walk  fragmentation in habitat fragmentation and both of those like likewise will have a mitigation fee component which is going to require whatever the board ends up being called if this were to pass to probably get rules regarding that as well on the energy piece there's currently an energy conservation under their skirt lee and energy conservation criteria and they're also adding energy efficiency to and obviously there's a there's a cottage industry a project sizing tonight it triggers in the current act two fifty that's why we you know that's why we've got seventy five percent of the growth not being covered by active fifty is there any discussion about i'm assuming that the resource space triggers now for coverage are designed to lower the percentage of yeah has anybody given that is there any discussion about the size of the administrative apparatus and the timing and i'm imagining i'm imaging chris is staffing up at his shop and things like that i mean every ball this will be i mean ok ok but this would contemplate i mean i think when the environmental board was was replaced or transformed into the natural resources board and they stopped doing at two fifty  but also these other review functions would require ramping that back up significantly another issue that that creates i was on the environmental board in the mid two thousand and the happenstance that the day after i was appointed pretty much the legislature started talking about getting rid of the environmental board is purely a coincidence but back then one of the conundrums was if the environmental board is hearing actually fifty appeals are supposed to be an objective quasi judicial body yet the environmental more to administer and supervise just for commissions and provide them with advice and guidance as they deal with permits you couldn't really do that you could advise them on a particular application if you're going to be judging it later and that was one of the benefits of breaking that into the core because it allowed a freer conversation to take place and i think that's one of the unintended consequences of if you move the appellate function back to the board i think that that either is going to limit their ability to provide advice to district commissions with respect to pending applications review that going to include the impact during construction or just the long term impact of whatever the development is it does not it does not limit it to any particular phase the one thing that mean you know we're talking about having some crew get some turn around in a month and make a decisions about what we think the position should be and what we are input should be on the legislation ok this is an enormously complex issue there's a lot of things that we're not going to know about it so how and how are we reasonably going to be able to put forth a set of recommendations in a month i don't think it's going to be as there may be some basic concepts i mean this is as i envision the task force there's going to be some be some guiding principles that we'll bring to the table but other than that i agree i don't i would be shocked if if anything twenty fourteen for those of you who are here and remember we had a permit reform committee provide some sort of a pretty overview policy statements it's about a two page document and i envision we would come up with seventy six pages of the oldest legislation and it's a moving target it's going to be lots of changes to it but i think jeff it's important that the commission get involved and and jurisdiction and dropping it down to what projects are more than one acre if you're in a rural and working lands area which is defined as any area that is not an existing supplement or critical resource area so to me that's kind of most everything in there and i think we're going to have even though there's an opportunity on the enhanced as the nation to be exempted from to fifty i i think that's all right let me just get through a few more of these slides we're we're talking about most of it already so we can get you here pretty quick so so here's the concept a change in the jurisdiction this is the first part of what kirk just was mentioning rural and and working lands and the critical resource areas i'm going to show you a map in the second of what the critical resource areas look like for our county and there's some room for no so this is essentially the critical resource area as mt for our region so there's this is very difficult to see and i expect you to see it but just trying to give you a sense overall of what what the areas are what the overall areas that are essentially the concept is no matter what development you're doing in these areas you're going to go back to fifty that's the idea again some of that's not quite work down it's not clear if it's going to be like two lot subdivision has to go but there's this is the general concept so if you see a little bit this the  purple are the steep slopes and it's an enormous data set so this we might lose this map as we go here but there are are inch circles around the interchanges on the interstate so  proposed bill adds a three thousand foot buffer around the interchanges with development within those areas would go to act two fifty and last year in an existing settlement that area that's not well defined or or mapped and where other things just very quickly this shows elevation over two thousand feet again that's a proposed change right now it regulates over twenty five hundred feet this shows are on here and mapped but they are not in the critical resource area they're just being added to the legislation as a new area to regulate recorders steep slopes over twenty five hundred over two thousand feet wetlands thank you that's so that it is truly a critical resource area so just for that real quick   so that's showing under here i turned on the state designations so they're kind of hard to see but you see those areas the blue is right in burlington you see  junction and so it's a little easier to see those over here on their own so these are the state designations you see the orange villages out further east and then our g centers are the blue is the neighborhood development areas so just again these are small small  yes ok let me just pick back up here three more so this is sharon mentioned the existing settlement areas not well defined they are bringing back the concept of the capability and development maps these were part of the original active fifty legislation they basically are intended to be a plant like we know them and maps that explain where you should develop and where you should develop so if this happens and it helps bring consistency and we've got an ability to influence that these could be helpful the proposed bill does require consultation with the r p c's prior to completion of the update i think you'd be better if it was much earlier in the process and that might be intended but that's definitely the wording  hairpieces i don't think municipalities are listed and then the idea is that once these maps are developed like they were back earlier when legislation first started that they actually stay updated along the way so other components just really quick we don't need to get into this into much detail but how recreation trails are dealt with an active fifty today is very confusing this bill proposes to clarify that there's some act to agriculture and forced exemptions worked out and clarified and here already talked about the two thousand from twenty five hundred feet talked about interchange areas there are lots in here again about how and are her manson actually fifty sort of play together there is an addition which i just wanted to point out for our region because we do have some impaired waters there is a presumption that there's no presumption if you get an a in our permit to discharge into a paired water it doesn't just mean you're ok to work through that there's a people understand that means lay members of the district commission would be making determinations about storm water and water quality and would not have to defer in any way to the this is not in the proposed build because it doesn't require legislative change but there's a concept in this in the summary report i believe to reactivate the development cabinet so this is an idea that at the administrative level there would be much more coordination and organization between all the permits that one would need so that's the idea we don't need to go into that too much detail right now unless you want to add anything cheryl  to then enhanced designation this is what we talked about so far so this is essentially the really the kind of one avenue for  for lack of better phrase getting out of active fifty review if you already do a lot of the stuff at the local level the bar is kind of high in some circumstances i think and again the geographies are pretty limited i talked about this already but this is essentially the next steps for u i was kind of struck that the commission didn't really look at the larger context of this like act two fifty makes a lot of sense to me in the context that it came about we were in a high growth period you know after i b m of the interstate opened you know in the sixty's and seventy's and it was trying to get control that municipalities didn't have the regulations they do today but i guess because i just came from another couple meetings where as you know hearing things about our growth rate what's happening in the entire state like there are things you know which is that today's circumstance and context for this i mean this and i started reading the report i got kind of got frustrated because it is starting from the assumption that were in kind of the same place we were nine hundred seventy and the same thing of high growth and sprawl of things are the things we need to get control of and i'm not saying we should never draw as i'm just saying not sure that we couldn't have used this opportunity to also address our current situation which is that we are not growing as a state with you know i mean there's been some population growth in genting county but it's basically been offset by population decline in other counties that extends well to employment as well so i'm not sure how of this is helping than be frustrated but well i know that in the findings that they had as sort of the foundation that leads into their various recommendations what they were doing a lot of as they were taking data points hundred seventy and now saying how much things have increased or decreased which seemed like a big number but there was no effort at comparing that to anything so it might have been the slowest rate of growth in the country or the fastest rate of growth so you had for instance since one thousand nine hundred seventy vermont's per capita income adjusted for inflation has nearly tripled i'm not sure what that has to do with act two fifty except and i don't know if triple there's a lot or a little for fifty years for months raking among us states for per capita annual income rose from thirty three to nineteen that's good but if but it's sort of stands alone from us population has grown by nearly half and its workforce by more than half that is reflective of the past not the current you know in accordance with what you're saying charlie and then vermont's unemployment rate has dropped from eight point seven percent in one thousand nine hundred six to two point eight percent in august twenty eighth which suggest and that's you know that's separate it was less at the beginning of the report talking about a player rates are as low now as they were in the late sixty's but i think it's going to show as the you know we have all this new development because we have all these jobs coming in with  the relevance wasn't clearly vermont's rate of land development has substantially exceeded its rate of population growth with land development growing at a rate of from two point five to six times its population growth since hundred two and i don't know if if if that is in terms of grand list value or what it is so land coverage ok land coverage  vermont is experiencing significant creation of small parcels now we're going to pick a type period two thousand and four to two thousand and sixteen eight thousand six hundred forty five new parcels between zero and ten acres in size were created in the state i have no idea what that means other than a thousand six hundred forty five new players like a lot of big number so there was that there was a lot of this back and it it was you know it i also can say that the act two fifty regime has felt as if it's been shunted to the side over the years part of it is because as more and more property is subject to act to fifty there's less property to become subject to act fifty all of these sort of high profile energy projects were sent over to the public utility commission for review appeals were taken away and i and people who work with an ak to fifty feel very strongly and very passionately about their mission to protect vermont's environment and this is very much an effort by them to reassert the active fifty as sort of a leader in in dealing with all kinds of development one of the other jurisdictional changes that wasn't mentioned one of the options they have in their proposed legislation is that energy projects above two thousand feet would be sobre tack to fifty so along with p v c they're contemplating that window so there's a lot there's a lot of moving pieces here and it is and every legislator hears from constituents on both sides of the issue a lot of them will have very personal stories that they're going to bend their legislators ear about and i fully expect that what will eventually come out of this to look very little like the start but as was mentioned we want to be in the process as early as we can not to be drafting legislation or to be you know you know getting down into the minutia of this but to really consistent with our two thousand and fourteen policy statement really set forth some guiding principles based upon the realities of shit and county in our member municipalities that we would like to see dealt with either to the extent they are dealt with be supportive of it or to the extent they are advocates for them being more clearly addressed like how you deal with affordable the r p c as a planing organization and not as an organization representing our member municipalities or trying to make it so that they don't do something like all of a sudden we have to put i sort of a guidance what we did with the twenty fourteen statement and to the extent we can align our principles with that i think it's a continuation of a message that we've delivered over the years with respect to permit reform which has been talked about every biennium but not a whole heck of a lot has been done they threw in new nine l and stuff like that but it and i would i would really like the ad hoc committee to spend a little time figuring out how we're going to interface with our member being a spell and he's on this so that we're not doing something that they're going to do themselves or that we can do something that maybe can help them do things that they wouldn't ordinarily be able to do and so in a world where it's better to not just have one voice but have a lot of them have to be ordinated it just seems to me that it just seems to me that if we don't interface with our member municipalities and their staffs were missing a really good opportunity to leverage what we're doing and to make it more effective and if i could just kind of add to that i mean i think will be most effective when it's there's more people behind us right whether it's the municipalit environmental community and the business community right i mean there's a there's a is us middle spot here that works and we spend a bunch of time when we do our plans trying to come up with the right balance so i think you know furthering our plan they had all over the state and i just i'm curious were they really listening or were they telling people what they wanted what they wanted to do or what was the sense of those  i'm just at a point of curiosity because it might tell us a little bit about a how we approach and b how much we do because i don't know if we've got enough resources to just go beat her head against the wall and  not i think that the report will just leave it the curtain g i c to do the report reflects the fact that they heard issues and concerns that were raised how much what they heard ultimately led to what they recommended you would have to ask them after you know putting sodium pentothal to nothing but i think that sort of the issues that were raised in the to ask the question i just you know i i'd love to participate in public policy discussions but only if we feel like we have a chance of actually affecting it otherwise we should do what we need to do to be a presence and have a i've presence there and that kind of thing but if they're not going to listen to us we should do a lot and just wait for our opportunity to work with somebody to get make sure that the point of view is heard but if this is something where they're really talking about doing something formative where we have can have a contribution to it where we can make it work effectively and the chief the objectives that we as an organisation and our members what i'm all for going in with all fours and have an ad hoc committee is and having things come to the board every month if it needs to because this is this is really important particularly if it's going to cover more than twenty five percent of  development it's really important to her to tell the political dynamic right now jeff because the committees just formed and reformed and you particularly the house is new committee chairs and leadership and i don't have a sense  hopefully you know of time we get your next couple of sets of you know how quick is this trying to move are they trying these are they look at this is a two year process or are they trying to get it done and you know kind of the feeling that i was giving you know with regina sa mother some good but there's also a lot of issues and you know starting to get worried about ok is this somehow on some kind of track that you know unless you can stop a locomotive it's where they're not going to be terribly  really basic because you've got a lot of new committee members and so they're not hit the ground running on this and to their credit you know they are they're starting slow so it's not it doesn't strike of course as can you know change without notice at any time but at this point it does seem that they understand the the the ramifications of this how every change over here has three or four you know impacts over here that different parts of the state are going to be affected different ways by different parts of it so it appears to me that they're not going to rush to judgment on this whether or not rushing to judgment means they're also open to change unless you've been through active fifty it's really hard to describe the somebody what it's like to go through  and it's not really as different so much as it's more so it's almost like a companion and the the commissions bill describes enhanced designation and then the administration really describes how you would go about doing that and what you have to do to get go from there directly to the supreme court versus and so you're not adding an extra step you're just changing  but i mean across a judicial board there's a lot more informal encourages participate so this impetus is facing to a much greater extent of the judicial proceedings does in the judicial proceedings can be very intimidating and i've spent dozens of hours before the old environmental board and everybody is welcome to express their views you know even when they're not qualified to do it in many respects so i mean i'm i can be i can be persuaded both ways so you make facts matter more than just verbal testimony understand this and the bars testimony and if you want to see a lengthy non human being friendly process go to a utility proceeding before the p c some time and so that's still there done that saturday so that's the model that they're looking at is a more professional labe or but you know that from my perspective a a a somebody acting in their own capacity without the benefit of a lawyer is not necessarily going to be any better off in front of a p c like environmental review board as compared to if you execute the cause of judicial proceeding the criteria for that allows people to judicial proceeding you actually discourage participation because it's intimidating and if i think if you can strike some balance between the two you could get the benefit of having the diverse opinion on everything and getting everything expressed versus allowing everything in the kitchen sink in versus just allowing the professional arguers to have their say because they're important local citizens and people should have the ability to express their views without having to hire for can where well well that's true you know but if you look at the criteria more and more of them are technical you know you're talking about you know and hours of the time and are having a map of force blocks and that's going to be a basically that's going to create that whole issue you've got all of the water quality issues and air pollution issues and those things there are certain areas like aesthetics and things like that where you do gain the benefit of a lay boards perspective but then if we're talking about well let's make sure that there's architects engineers and so on on these boards to deal with the technical issues well are those the people we want making a set of decisions so there's a lot i mean there's no if there was a perfect model that would have been arrived at a long time ago and there's this is also the position that they took regarding the appeals changed at their last vote they literally had recommended sticking with the current situation until their last meeting add a quick question for regina i haven't seen the administration's annex yet but is it fair to say that it's going to elaborate on the intent of the summary that we have seen where this notion of expanded exist or enhanced as ignition providing an alternative pathway to compliance it's not a raising of the thresholds it's an alternative enforcement mechanism of all the same criteria that would be adjudicated at the local level fifty yeah well it would work like the designations do now as a municipality you have to go to the downtown board and prove that your regulations do everything they have to do for the base designations and then also address all the activity criteria right but on a project basis not just in planning for the designated area i mean i'm thinking in terms of you know we have this framework of you know the end of the day are you making it easier to do smart growth than her do sprawl and fragment should be the filter we're looking at this early and ten so i think it is but but my point was going to be around the current perverse incentives you have where you create a higher stress hold a higher standard for development that falls under act to fifty jurisdiction than you do for development that does not fall under active fifty jurisdiction and that drives the cottage industry that jeff describes about how do you avoid jurisdiction at all costs if at all possible because you don't want to say build to a different energy code than the rest of the state or have additional costs imposed in terms of climate mitigation than the rest of development in the state you make it you make it economically disincentive ised for a project to fall under act two fifty if there's any way to design a project that would fall to fifty so it's a perverse incentive and to the extent that the new improved act to fifty might touch just about every development in the state well hey that's all of the perverse incentive problem so that's one way to look at this but it  reading of this is that it's not clear whether you're exempted from back to fifty or you're just required to have a bunch of new conditions on your local permit to touch on but yet it is true that the municipality is going to the table and saying in this area we are meeting all of this and so although actually some of them actually say you have to prove that you regulations are are getting to that level of standard throughout the whole town that's probably from a local they just had a lot of them whether anybody knows but in the process of doing this did anybody develop a timeline of all the additional and or permits that are needed they had addressed some of the criteria that were originally in act two fifty and so a timeline of what those permits that you know that are now required and you know so you kind of have this this i think especially from laypeople to understand because oftentimes we people refer are referring to meeting actually fifty permits would be really they're talking about everything else and so understanding when weapons permits became a but so many projects that were permitted originally you know didn't have to comply with any of the regulations that we have today and so you know and those are that if there's any changes in the on site within an it further look at all those smiling happy faces all right nothing like an actor fifty here well thank you very much and the task force is going to meet a couple times before the next monthly meeting as luck would have it i will not be here at every meeting so mike here will be shepherding the discussion in february bring us back to montreal bring back montreal next next item executive director of four so just a few items first i want to have you know welcome amy urban with a who's a stand up somebody her new business office associate so you'll be seeing her every month and the last she joined us so week and a half ago two weeks and thank him for all the service to our p c and wish him well and in that work in the four to working with him in that role and thanks you gave him to us and sorry we took  fifty you may have heard about that need other one that i'm paying some attention to at this early stage is around water quality funding which is again another topic that we've talked about here repeatedly   for this fix the rest purpose of requiring towns to band together if they can or want to to work on projects that are non regulatory in nature so right the towns are already required to do quite a projects so what these stream buffer planting are really more work with watershed associations and conservation districts and those sorts of things into the well i think there's really no appreciation now on all of the projects but really who we really need to be engaging and working with the private landowners so it feels like that list of tasks that you know have potentially been identified but you know it's just or with people get and just for context so my sense in talking to secretary more is that she's coming to a greater understanding about what needs to be done to get comply with the owners talking to her and why she's proposing this is really because she's getting a sense that it's not ten percent that is outside those permits is probably maybe twenty percent of what needs to happen is outside those permits and so she's trying to figure out a way to push that work more i think there may be more direct and simpler ways and then creating another level of municipal government so we'll we'll have some of those conversations so those are the couple big things and happy to answer any questions as we go sure we'll have more updates as we continue along here so that's all and all right various committee reports the minutes are in the