the question is raised whether or not discussion ensued i'm quoting from these minutes a good discussion ensued regarding what additional information would be needed and in father incidents could be brought into this investigation so they talked about the incident in january of two thousand and two in now the question is can you bring in other incidents ms rouer reported that in making a recommendation th because the very next sentence is in response it is reported that over the past two years there have been some surgical judgements and question however they were investigated more than five or six years ago he said other cases evaluated by the surgery  understood what they were talking about so then when it got to the hearing before the the a fair hearing of the panel at that point in doubt cursive etc asking him questions about what happened the first question was so much your husband you never had it issues with regard to patient care on your record here in twenty years so the question is is there anything on your record he responds and we didn't mention my record i got  is you know this procedure are we talking about this will record i think what they're talking about i believe it's clear from the context is there there is a long to do file down doctors believe that differing views different responsibilities even though we may feel so in the field there you are asking for trouble but huge trouble comes up i mean first of all his testimony the testimony we're just talking about was just bawling ultimately the decision here was a surgical decision and needed the intention of the surgeon and i didn't come in really sure i dropped the ball for this concern but you know what i'm telling you this will never happen again if that happened if that phil's testimony and you look at the minutes which is in the record no one nineteen nineteen if you look at that and you can see that he is going through at the time is the question that as they a well just future recollection i don't care what the record shows you never had any and dr doses i remember there was a question about the money going to see if you the local patient the patient didn't well there was no problem but so nurses church that came in and i testified that sometimes there's village advantage seizure and there was no group wasn't any action taken doctor per se and there's never been any problems with patients here and the was mentioned at some point earlier in the record and that is part of what he gets a chance to respond to with regard to if i don't and when they gave him the option you want to have a rehearing to discuss this further or do you want to have  adopt that they can modify it and they chose it essentially but you've got a situation where there was no new information that came out of the fair hearing panel except perhaps to this issue of credibility so so  briefs in arguments talking about the fear of panel both the ultimate decision here comes from the board of directors and there's literally no evidence whatsoever that has been submitted indicated that the board's decision makers  surgeon so if there's a monetary change apparently did mike give something to do with the procedures around the neck or something but while he's there there's no indication there's no testimony that he did anything out of  years or more resenting medical professionals i believe many cases of harm to patients could have been avoided by the diligent use of the hospital's disciplinary process i think good deal more good who is very appropriate about it in terms of the historical context because it was told to characterize it from the very beginning talking about proffering there was no factory show but the point is that if you want to bring in something you would have to be reasonably related to the would be the culmination of the series of events that led to the medical staff to conclude that the petition was poor performance of the level of acceptability she responds in her argument in her brief that points out that the surgery incident and there was a previous recommendation made for rehabilitation in that incident we didn't have the time to research is there early enough to to reopen that case if you will what we did have evidence clear and so is now is a history that we have done