is used as a concern the f c c is earlier orders on that point and after reaching their conclusion and he went through the statutory and alistair's noting you know he lamented that clarity did not jump off a cage of it's some point between the actual identification of the number and the production of that number there is some storage that has to occur in jumps you noted that he hinted and the other thing that he noted in his opinion i think was  doesn't it modify telephone numbers to be called your it's your if you store produce telephone numbers to be called using a random the numbers are to be called using a random or sequence of number i mean i don't understand how you can produce the number but and then not necessarily have already stored it but why is it or what is i don't know what's what is or do it all  be implicated there but i don't i don't think that that is the chase and what you're looking at i think is the last an antecedent i think clearly we want to look at how is any court to really address this issue in the language that is used to define an automatic telephone balance system in the statute is far from perfect it is clearly ambiguous i believe it is as  early word to say the least the problem with the way that the th circuit and the th circuit tried to correct this problem is by using rules proper for what is proper grammar to try and interpret what is clearly improper grammar and i believe in its and in both court the now and says we see the problems that have arisen with their interpretation when they say that using a random number generator applies to not just the produce function because i don't think there's any question that using a random or sequential number generator can apply to how telephone numbers are in fact produced but then they save them both court that said sequential number generator also applies to how those numbers are stored and your honor asked the question well how is the number stored using a random or sequential number generator we still don't have an answer to that question and in fact that that satisfies the statute yes the statute would have put would apply to any system that has the capacity to store telephone numbers and then automatically telephone numbers it's not just the fact that it can store numbers and then and also down numbers because i know that there is a lot of questions and concerns that this that of reading is interpreted as but that's why i'm advocating that it could apply to smartphones but i think we're there determine that capacity does not apply just to the current actual capacity of the system but it would apply to the potential capacity that could be i guess that in that system could have the to be able to perform such as and i know like for example i phones with a big concern that an i phone could have the potential capacity to have some kind of application downloaded to it that could then cause it to function as an article or would that even if your i phone doesn't have that pass the at the time it could stored somewhere separately like i'm sorry let me go back for a nd so you're saying that a smartphone would not qualify because it can't automatically dial the numbers then yes although they can store them but i can dialing or going to someone like go going to your phone and say i want to call jim finding jim like in jim and then calling jim that's not automatic that actually human intervention and i think that's where the human intervention does list to an auto dialer or but they've already they've already intervened by calling that we're th day we why isn't that enough human intervention to say that's not what was intended here by congress because both both the nd circuit and the th circuit have addressed that issue and that there has to be some human intervention at some point whether turning on a machine or clicking send to not dial to send to one person because i want to call jim now i'm done  call kelly let me call kelly it's here are hundreds of numbers or thousands of phone numbers then i'm going to call hundreds of thousands of phone numbers under that and that's what that will congress was trying to prevent the ability for somebody to do that to say i to download i want to buy a list of every telephone number in cincinnati and i'm going to put that all that list into my system and i'm going to start calling a child rethink a person who is your point is well taken but what if i'm a company and i have borrowers and some of them are doing calling and it happens to be you know thousands of borrowers that are doing when i put all of their numbers and i call them and i i make it easier on my customer service people so they don't have to punch in the numbers every time so the machine doesn't work me but i'm still using a criteria which is are you doing when are you ninety days to england sixty days thirty days i don't know what i'm doing i'm just that's the that's this one person and you are saying i'm calling them at this time when the call connects i'm there i'm there on the phone versus the other scenario where you have all one hundred or one thousand link with borrowers you put the phone number you put that list into the complaints of all dead air because the system was calling people people would answer their phone and then there's nobody there and that that's not the case where if you use a smart phone and they called call jim call betty you're there on the phone because you decided i want to call this person at the time versus an a t m which just calls hundreds or thousands of people at an at a time and if they connect and hopefully there's someone that's available to take that call that an order for suppose you you had a fall within that provision you know i think if you're just looking at the the language there is a possibility that something like that could be if that is the capacity of it at the time but there's also some other case law in the i believe it was in the northern district of illinois that addressed this issue a little bit that that this law wasn't intended for families you know people calling their families going to friends calling their wings that's not what this law is not meant for event that's not what it was and read that should why this was to be applied to what we see at issue here where someone says i have however many doing when borrowers i'm just going to put put there the list of the legal borrowers into the system and the system we're going to call them if they can act hopefully i have someone who's available to take that call hopefully but if not it's just going to keep calling and calling and calling and that's what congress is trying to prevent with the pca fact i believe senator holding one of the sponsors gave mentioned about how these call keep ringing and ringing and ringing wake people up in the morning force the elderly out of bed interrupt them when they're having dinner so most or you just want to just rip just throw your phone across the room to get the call the stop is this constantly is this constant calls the congress is trying to i guess the problem that they were trying to address with the p c v a and that was that what they did there was a that's true but there was also some idea that they were generating random numbers and calling and that was the problem with bothering people with solicitations that they never signed up for they never agreed to they're just getting random numbers i mean i take it it would be ok if he had decided so they just have a one hundred you know whatever ten thousand names they divide him a you know five hundred they give them to customer service people they sit at a phone and they just go through the sequence dial them all them physically sit there and dial them all themselves and if the borrower is there they talk to him they leave a message whatever that would be ok i assume does that would be ok that that is what it is one of hers and if they just have a machine that makes it easier to just dial the number for the person sitting at the desk that makes it not ok correct and if they're just wrong they have to just run through the list and dialing until it possibly connects with someone and then connect that person to to call someone who owes a debt to the government not by generating a random or sequential number hoping that the person one who they can who answered that call one owes a debt to admit yeah you found me i owe the government money  mentioned the i guess the generating random numbers that's the production aspect of it so that a c s covers two types of equipment one that stores numbers in automatically dollars those nd one that produces these numbers with these number generators and then di or would it only invalidate the government except sol i would that obviously would depend on who you who you ask i think whenever it's been brought to an any district or circuit court any district or circuit court said that that government backed that exemption is basically from the rest of the statute is that portion being invalidated but the entire statute as a whole has not be validated i think there's another another argument from another side that says given that new exception which was problems don't get me wrong here but you're the reading of the century would be store telephone numbers to be called and would stop there st store and then produce telephone numbers to be called and then the phrase using a random or sequential number generator that entire thing would be would cover produces only and just seems very just an and not necessarily just produce something those existed and then use the language was very specific perhaps or there was really you don't own it till two thousand and three the f c c never took the position that dialing from a stored list violated the and it wasn't until the technology changed in two thousand and three that the f c c was looking at a situation where the statute didn't capture the change in technology and then where you think there are regulatory authority to try to  stores numbers and i'm driving down the road down to cincinnati to argument where the six circuit it and i put on my do not disturb master for anyone and that then automatically goes out that turns my smartphone to the person who's calling me i'm sending a text it is dialing for my system automatically has there been a case that his helmet is a provision of the random number generation it applies to both terms simply calling from a stored last which is what my text message would be simply a response from the stored west is not enough there has to be rand