good evening we're glad to have you with us on this first full day of spring yes spring it's come and it's going to happen and now we're glad glad that you have taken time out of your busy life to join us this evening we said we'd like to start with a there are more here we have a core of thank you sir will now do a couple things that we have done for decades will start with the aid company prayer led by our colleague dave extra and after that we will join in the pledge of allegiance we'd love it if you would join us by standing gives life to all the world hear me i need your strength and wisdom let me walk in beauty and make my eyes ever hold the red and purple sunset make my hands respect the things you have made in my you are sharp  hear your voice make me wise so that i made understand things you have taught my people that we will learn the lessons you have hidden in every leaf and rock that we remain calm strong in the face of all that comes towards me help me from compassion without empathy overwhelming me a six trait not to be greater than my brother but to fight my greatest enemy myself make me always ready to come to you with clean hands and straight stands one nation under god indivisible with liberty  all thank you we will now go on with the consent agenda which is a list of items that council will handle with one vote and make one decision on that perhaps you came here to talk about one of the items that is listed on the agenda that appears in the consented and that if that's the case at the end of the reading of the consent agenda we have often it up for you to come forward give us your name and address and which item you would like pulled from the consented genda and then we will excuse the absence of council member bird item for c to accept and file executing oaths of office from various boards in commissions item twelve b rentals on a t u properties as recommended by planning commission with final adoption at the april eighteenth two thousand eight hundred city council regular meeting item twelve b two and seventeen b to accept in place on first reading proposed text amendments to establish a comprehensive short term rental program for owner occupied and non owner occupied short term rentals and commercial p u d n p r d p r d districts with final adoption at the april eighteenth two thousand eight hundred city council regular meeting the sections to amend or thirty nine dash four hundred five point one thirty nine dash for a five point two thirty nine dash ninety five thirty nine dash one one five thirty nine dash one twenty seven thirty nine dash one forty one thirty nine dash one sixty six thirty nine dash three zero one fourteen dash four point six fourteen two fourteen dash four point thirty two and fourteen dash four point thirty four point one item twelve b three and seventeen c to accept in place on first proposed text amendments to section thirty nine dash two sections to include short term rental types as recommended by planning commission with file adoption april eighteenth two thousand and eighteen regular city council meeting item twelve before and seventeen d to accept in place on first reading proposed tax amendments to chapter thirty nine of the city code to create a pilot non owner occupied short term rental program in proposed text amendments to a chapter fourteen housing to create a pilot non owner occupied short term relief program with final adoption at the april eighteenth two thousand and eighteen council regular meeting item twelve you one point one two approved participation in the state of michigan joint purchasing program for road salt for the two thousand and eighteen and one thousand season at the moments listed in the submitted report i am twelve e two two point one and seventeen easy to accept in place on first reading a proposed tax amendment to section twenty six dash one to differentiate public public lodging house from short term rentals with final dobson at the april eighteenth two thousand and eighteen regular council meeting i do twelve a three point one to approve the moran park lighting project completed by hofmann electric  the amount of seventeen thousand eight hundred dollars to be funded by the missile capital improvement fun item twelve e four point one to declare a surplus of bikes bicycles acquired by the police division with donations to be made to seventy times seven and also listed in property room dot com for disposal and sale item twelve east six point two two approve the bid submitted by whole land ia outdoors to install bark mulch at various locations on seventh eighth and ninth street and river avenue at a cost of ninety six hundred in two thousand and eighteen and ten thousand and eighty one in two thousand and nineteen for a total cost of nine hundred thousand six hundred eighty one dollars i don't twelve the six point three two approved amendment excuse me to approve an agreement with the art of a county department of public health to launch the prescription for health program at the holland farmer's market for the two thousand eight hundred season subject to approval as deformed by the city attorney item twelve six point four to accept a grant from the holland zealand community foundation in the amount twenty thousand dollars for holl civic center place and instructed staff to follow through with all associated grant requirements and that the clerk and mayor signed the grant agreement subject to approval as to form by the city attorney item twelve to eighty one thousand dollars contingent on the sale of the f o p property to the same buyer item twelve six point six to reschedule the april fourth two thousand and eighteen regular city council meeting wednesday april eleventh two thousand eight hundred five thirty pm in the training room at holland city hall thank you sir perhaps one of those items you came here to talk about if that's the case please make your way to the podium and give us your name and address and which i had him you would like taken off that consented and seeing that in the audience council does anyone have an item to take off of forget the quiet giants among us that serve the public and are often unrequited in their pay their volunteers among us and we would like to take a little time tonight to recognize with the national service recognition day those people that work with us in the good samaritan ministries and american or throughout our community so i would ask that those who are here from that organization please make your way to the podium and i'll come out there to read this proclamation proclamation than i read completely but where as service to others is a hallmark of the american character and central to how we meet our challenges the nation's cities counties tribal governments are increasingly turning to national service and volunteer ism as a cost effective strategy to meet their needs national service expands economic opportunity by creating more sustainable resilient communities and providing education career skills and leadership abilities to those who serve and where as american or and senior corps participants address the most pressing challenges facing our communities for educating students for jobs for the twenty first century to fighting the opioid epidemic to responding to natural disasters to supporting veterans and military families participants serve in more than fifty thousand locations across the country bolstering the civic neighborhood and faith based organizations that are so vital to our economic and social well being and where as national service participants increase the impact of the organizations they serve both through their direct service and by managing millions of additional volunteers and whereas good samaritan ministries has engaged the hauen community for over fourteen years in collaborative efforts to improve services for disadvantaged youth throughout the faith in youth partnership in america corps program america core members at various partners sites providing mentoring program for under served middle and high school youth through alternative suspension programs in school mentoring sessions and after school group programs focused on academics life skills the arts community service and where is in the how when community since two thousand and four america are members served more than two  and so ported more than with more than fifteen hundred volunteers we had six american or members currently serve more than eighty students at holland high school neighbors plus pillar site and step up although paid it within our city last year more than one hundred and seventy students were mentored with fifty three percent demonstrating improved engagement based on student and teacher surveys and more than two hundred thirty volunteers provided over fourteen hundred hours of service whereas the corporation for national and community service shares a priority with local leaders nationwide to engage citizens improve lives and strengthen communities and is joining with the national league of cities the national association of counties cities of service and local leaders across the country for national service recognition day april three twenty eighteen now therefore i nancy tibor mayor of the city of holland michigan to hear by proclaim tuesday april three twenty eighteen as national service record record recognition day in the city of holland and i encourage all of holland to recognize the passage of impact of national service in our community to thank those serve and to find ways to give back to our community thank you so much all of you for being here we have lifted jake ups who's the director of good sam ministries and would you like to introduce our other that it is something that's happening all the time when you realize thank you all the strength that you're weaving into the community that we will reap as a community long term so thank you so much thanks for taking the time to be here and for giving back right out of college where you yeah your first year and you have a degree and you're choosing to spend this time to help build a better world that is very inspiring thank you so american or volunteer as well for two years one of those years with good samaritan ministries and so i i understand first first hand the cost and sacrifice that it means to serve in your roles and so just know that right for something from somebody time but thank you for what you do you are transforming our community so thank you thank you thank you well you know this that's very great next we have public comment and that is a time when the microphone is open for anyone to speak about whatever's on your heart or counsel i'm sorry yes oh sorry i forgot the written petition i get so wound up raw could you explain to us about the written petition placed yes i'd be glad to and the agenda item eight there is a petition petition really serves two purposes one is for the neighbors communicate concerns they have about the scope of the project but secondly under our charter it also serves as a as a trigger to require an increase majority vote on the project under the charter there's i sort of want them into three stages of the project in terms of what comes before council one is plans and specs are brought in estimated mounts are brought to you through the city manager's office  or through one of the departments under the city manager for your review and you decide whether to go forward with the project if the decisions go forward the project then there's a public hearing of necessity determining whether the project's necessary and then the next step if you go forward with that is an assessment roll hearing that would happen later on a few months later the impact of the petition is to require a two thirds vote at the hearing on the ceci to go forward with the project so be require six votes of council threshold that's required very good thank you any discussion know there's so proposal before council at this time now as i understand the process here there will be an informational meeting tomorrow night at the holland heights school i believe it's at six thirty  where information be exchanged with the neighbors and then the streets department will bring a proposal before council i believe at the april twenty eighth meeting march i'm starting at the wrong light march twenty eighth meeting  for councils first review and then requesting that the public hearing be scheduled for april eighteenth a protein that would be the hearing on and whether that for the project is a necessity or not vote and that's where the two thirds vote requirement will lie great thank you and good when yeah any other questions or comments could you call the roll oh yes mike just a reminder that yes in fact tomorrow evening at home in high school at six thirty i don't know that the room has been determined yet but i have been promised that it's going to be much more accessible than the meeting that we had in january the room is going to be larger looking forward to the discussion have had a number of e mails number of concerned citizens which is fantastic  and looking forward to the presentation and the feedback that we get from that we've had some good feedback and i'm sure we're going to have more which is the way the democratic process works so public comment and this is the time when you can come forward to the mouth to the podium give us your name and address and you may speak for five minutes addressing the council about whatever is on your heart is the green light is go the yellow light means you have one minute left and the red light means your five minutes are up and as mike and ron has said there is a meeting tomorrow to talk through hope avenue and all the aspects of that project will have the staff there to address particular questions this is not a time for a discussion back and forth but it is a time for open communication so if you would like to address council about this whatever issue is on your mind you are more than welcome to do that but the expectation is not a conversation it's just presentational and tomorrow will be more of a conversation and working through things so that podium is now many secrets are meant to i hope college students i live on campus i just wanted to take a moment to commend you for your proclamation and for recognizing the service that happens as in this community i'm from a small town in kansas where the commute or community matters a lot and since i've been here i've been involved in a lot of service and i wanted to take a moment to recognize what it takes to be so the to give charity to be serviceable and charitable you have to give more than what you are you have to give so much of yourself that it makes you emotional and it hurts sometimes and it's so much different from giving it to the point that like when you when you give a homeless person five dollars you don't do that to feel anything do receive anything but at the same time you feel horrible because that's not something that you can help i mean you can by giving the money but it's not your fault and while that money does help them you don't know what's going to happen to them and it's the same way with any form of service so i want to commend you for the proclamation and i want to commend the people who are involved in all the service activities for everything that they've done because i know what that means and what that takes and i know how heartbreaking it is to be in that position him sean from chef container i just wanted to let you guys know that it was sixteen years ago about the same time that we talked to you guys about a project pride day some of you were part of it some of you probably don't even remember it but it's hard to believe that this is my fourth time in from a council with a agreement and i just wanted to let you know that our employees are honored to be a part of the city of holland they take great pride in everything that they do they can't even begin to tell you how they love their job so i just wanted to thank you for that i also wanted to let you know that over sixteen years we've developed many programs  that we've improved on we started a program that i think it's very unique in our world the refuse world recycling world and we're always looking for improvement so the next agreement that's in front of you tonight has a lot of improvements that could be made the world will change over the next five years so i'm sure the communication is going to be very large but i just want to do thank you more for the opportunity and for being a part of the good evening i'm dan sort of like i live at one sixty hope avenue i live in the north end of the project hope avenue where it's going to be reconstructed this summer so we've learned thank you for receiving the sign petitions today actually since last or friday the ninth that we've had two more petitions actually signed in command so i don't know when it's appropriate to some of those we can submit those to the city sports office again so that would bring it up to thirty of the i think by charter it's forty others forty six privately on parcels there's forty seven parcels ones public by the school in the city but thank you for the explanation very much with the dates because we not heard any of those dates as a community and some of the issues that we've had as neighbors on hope avenue is the deep lack of communication from the city on this project that's been thrown around with  of dollars being charged to each of us and thank you again for your interest in this project we would love nothing more than to see a repaved street with improved drainage and repairs to the existing infrastructure that exists out there we hope you'll agree with us that hope avenue does not need to be reclassified as a major street i explained that earlier that i rarely ever see that in my career as a professional engineer that community would actually reclassify a local street to a major street unless they're anticipating federal monies to reconstruct the road i understand the city's been discussing this project for at least ten years and ever since the floodings in two thousand and eight and two thousand and nine so over the past ten years it's i wish there was some time to communicate with the residents about the desires of the over the city and i think there was a big failure  communication there to receive input from the residents who would be most affected by this project as of last friday one of the communications were received from the city explain that they weren't sure that the storm sewer would actually work in the design because otherwise it might affect the sanitary sewer on that being one of the first things that would be constructed it would assume that they would have been worked out by now maybe months or years ago not days or weeks ahead of construction that we were informed would start right after to have time and again the communication has left a large vacuum for you know misinformation potentially and we hope that that process does improve with future reconstruction projects especially those that would involve an assessment district i also ask that the city does not apply a cookie cutter approach to their streets not every street is would deserve the same treatment in the same with the same everything in in the city's own policies whether it be the complete streets policy or the special assessment policy does allow a lot of breathing room and allow specific unique characteristics to be taken into consideration we don't feel any of those unique characteristics were taken into consideration with the first draft that we saw back in january weeding to months to receive answers to questions to be strung along for six seven weeks or eight weeks  with you'll get them soon you'll get next week they're under review it was very frustrating so again i hope that process approved improves in the future for other residents so again we we're just sensible design and hope avenue when that pro project is brought to you sounds like march twenty eighth for the to approve the plans and specs in the it and the estimates as sensible design that is such a that addresses the specific drainage problems that have been identified road surface issues and sidewalk deficiencies without saddling future generations and hope avenue residents with large costs and the necessary infrastructure to be maintained forevermore thank you  my name is nancy honor i live it to six five hope avenue i first heard about this project when the hound sentinel published it and back in november at that time i wrote an email to city asking what the scope was basically i was told don't worry about it we'll let you know three weeks later when the design firm was hired i sent another one asking for scope i again was told don't worry about it we'll let you know i agree with everything dan has stated he's kind of been our spokesman for this project so in the absence of time i really just want to follow up on the study that we did mr truth the way you asked about the sidewalks and i have this for you i sent an e mail  january twenty eighth with photographs and account of what needed to be repaired for sidewalks so i'll give this to you now but pursuant to your request a mixture jason has it tomorrow night at the meeting as well ok oh  upstairs a little earlier was that the city has a debt that they have to pay off over a period of time i know you can save a little money avenue because we really like the neighborhood feel that we have there we don't want to be reclassified as a major street we don't feel that we need a sidewalk on the west side because there's very little traffic on the sidewalk on the east side and we really don't want the bike lanes because it's going to widen the street and i talked a little earlier about covering up green space with concrete or blacktop or whatever the case may be and we don't feel it's in the best interest of the neighborhood do that and i think we're fairly united in that i don't know for unanimous we could run a poll of all the people that are here from hope i don't know if you'd like to but we really ask that you would consider this carefully and do the right thing for our neighborhood we don't know all about the engineering studies and what's coming in the future we just know that we'd like the project to be limited so we asked you to do that thank you c my name is gary backman in a rather large interest on the corner of pulp and sixteenth street and i'm really concerned i think about two things the children in the holland high school and the increased traffic that would take place if this was a major street with curbs and gutters and all the thrills i i think it's a time where money can be saved and the project could be a real enhancement to the value of the property speaking as a realtor i have never been an appraiser but i would not add any value to a person's home on that street knowing that there was all of this work done underneath the street that doesn't even exist the  improvements as long as it has good water in the sewer it has gas in the street and the street is a nice looking street and i don't know about drainage problems but that's what a buyer would be looking for so holland michigan i live in chicago now but holland michigan is just one great city and people are responsible here and they listen to other people and i pray that you will listen to all the people who make the petition and do the right thing now if i may i'd like to ask all the people from all avenues just the stand up for a moment you are here for this cause and there are more that couldn't make it but we appreciate your help thank you good evening again my name is jason perkins and i live at two twenty hope avenue as i stated earlier in the meeting up stair up stairs we have been living in our house for about five months as a brand new house that we built for habitat for humanity my wife and i ruth we have four children aged eight down to ten months and we moved into this house we are super excited to have a home where we can raise our children and a neighborhood that is safe and quiet and for us personally it was kind of a it was a big hit for us to learn of the scope of this project whereas we just moved off of a very busy city street thinking that we're moving into a neighborhood those quiet and a little more safe and a little bit more low key to discover that the city wants to transform this street into a major city is kind of concerned i mean and even even to the point where it would actually cause me to consider whether or not we were going to stay in this house for the long term so i would just ask the council and everyone else to just carefully consider this i know sometimes things look good on paper but when the reality of how it affects the people is not taken into consideration some things can kind of go right so i just ask that you really take careful consideration for our concerns that's all of the same things thank it's supposed to look more like a street well one of the biggest problems i have of the street people from meyers eating is a cut through so we have speeding cars already coming down the street as it is to add more traffic it's not something that i want to see we bought the house that we live in because it's a smaller side street neighborhood feel where we get a litter of kids just go out and run around ride the bikes if the initial prasco for the project was to be done we lose a third of our front yard and we won't be able let our kids play in the fray or any more so our conversations went to hollowing going to be here to you how quick can we sell our house it's would be disaster the neighborhood especially removing all the trees the old trees the tall ones it's not the neighborhoods that we bought and you couldn't convince me to buy a house and street we looked at those houses we looked at houses in areas like it that's too busy not going to let my nine year old my twelve year old play the front yard with their three year old or sitting on the porch on a major street and we lose about a third of our front yard it's it's not worth it does so we strongly suggest that you would get the neighborhood what it is we didn't buy a house on a major street with sidewalks and bike lanes we have a one lane driveway we park two cars in it back to back over the driveway so you put in bike lanes where you parking the bike lanes in our front yard or of the sidewalk the other complaint i have is we've heard rumors that they're going to fix the street and google searches didn't tell me anything i had to google it came up with no information and we didn't find out the full scope of it until we started getting e mails from neighbors the impression i got was that it was trying to get steamrolled through as quick as possible as quietly as possible and i think you asking us to pay for it but it's kind of you trying make this picture and you want us to pay for it and i'm not really willing to pay for something that i don't think our neighborhood needs so i just really as you take a good look at what the neighborhood is in that what you think it should be  hello my name is scott meehan and bird and we are on the apartment building at three pts of and six hope avenue and that's six unit apartment building that we bought about four years ago and i was surprised when they talked about this project first of all that it was it was so short notice on it and then the lack of information about the project to start with  and had we known i but i was surprised by the project because when we purchased the building i thought i was already buying the property on it and that proved roadway i'd never expected you know something of this scope to go in  and so you know the cost is considerable and in a way i'm here representing the six families that live in in the building you know and you know we we do try to i think we provide some affordable housing for them and indirectly this is going to affect those six families as well because as our costs increase with this new assessment that will affect them as well but i wasn't even planning to come here i mean that's the way it is in business i guess but hearing of the neighbors and their opposition to you know the widening of the street and the removal of the trees and just really how it will affect the neighborhood and really hear more for them tonight just to support them and and help in that way thank you thank you thank  good evening my name is robin baker i live on eight fifteen birch drive thank you for the opportunity to comment on the proposed plan to expand and in appropriately reclassify hope avenue as a major street i reading a statement written by my brother christopher prince he owns a property on the west corner of hope have a new and pop hard drive where we both grew up and it's been a family property for over sixty years christopher unfortunately could not be here tonight you have received a petition signed by over half of the homeowners in the proposed hope avenue assessment district it didn't need to reach this point had the city plan simply addressed what the neighbors need and have asked for better storm drainage sidewalk repairs and roadway resurfacing you would not have received this petition you would not have received the many letters emails and phone communications residents have sent to the council if the city had not had involved residents of holland heights early in the planning for this project these residents might not have felt the need to express their concerns now last week the city did provide a limited response to some of the questions residents of the neighborhood have and i know they appreciate the city's scheduling a second neighborhood meeting tomorrow night to address issues i hope this meeting will be an opportunity for actual dialogue i hope that the city will listen to what the people whose lives most will be affected by the work one that i also hope the city decides to amend the project in a way that reflects the current in significant use particularly on my block of hope avenue relative to far busier streets in the area what is done needs to be more in keeping with what residents think will preserve the more peaceful character of their neighborhood the goal both for the immediate neighborhood and the city should be to reinforce the importance of sustainable planning in holland i've heard the city's sustainability framework which i understand was not considered during the development of this project described as more of a process than a plan and that's right it should not be a set of rules but rather a guide to the way we think about how projects like the whole new project affect the way people want to live where they do with this in mind i will close by emphasizing how real the negative impacts of the proposed changes will be for the property where i grew up and plan to retire i understand and this earlier was conveyed to the council via e mail including photographs that the city plans to remove as many as five trees and t long hedges on my property alone in addition to eliminating an important buffer between my corner lot and the road the change seriously would have altered the garden that my our mother spent many years creating loving these actions would not be sustainable green or at all a desirable result from my perspective i respectfully request that the city reconsider its plans for this project and allow the necessary time to get it right thank you very much thirty seven years two years we spend grand rapids we didn't know our neighbors in grand rapids this this is unique this is kind of special so we have a group of people all come together trying to get something done and i kind of sounds like holland to me his cousins like how it works which is neat so i hope this means something to all of you as well i hope you take a seriously and always say more your time i look forward to discussing it tomorrow night thank you fiscally conservative so when we were looking to purchase our first home we bought a duplex and you know i you know we live comfortably but my mom stayed home my wife's mom stayed at home so with two kids another one on the way it's going to be kind of tight and when we bought a home we bought the duplex  with the goal of eventually saving enough money to move out and then run it out and the idea of having a short term rental just seem really awesome because we could have family come up and stay with us because we can't afford a big house so like said not going to be a dead horse but we just we bought it with the intention to do it and  i don't know what has been discussed about short term rentals but to me it just kind of seemed like a no brainer and good for everyone so all i know swing by my house and talk to me if you want she is the very first woman prosecutor in allegheny county history two other things that are going on are sheriff frank baker has started a program in response to some of the tragic school shootings across the country where he is asking higher road deputies when they are between calls to go to our our schools and our rural county and make themselves visible  so that people are reassured that particularly the staff and students are reassured that we are paying attention to that very important issue it was speaking of the sheriff  you may have read that he has concluded the first agreement with one of our cities to provide the sheriff's department be the city police agency for the city of saugatuck officially on july first perhaps a little earlier as i said is the first one in our county to have that kind of regional focus but it expands a program that we've had for at least the last ten years where local units can contract with the sheriff's finance director and our county administrator and several other local units we have been working to restore some of the money lost with the personal property tax calculations that the state has  mysteriously changed over the last couple of years you all know the tremendous impact of the city's budget on the county's budget i think counties budget we were expecting a check in the area of about seven hundred fifty thousand dollars we received forty five thousand dollars this mirrored in a number of other local units for example of the city of plane well had to wreak was or asked to return money from last year personal property tax  reimbursement the city about sego faces about twenty five percent of their total budget loss and even us a number of our townships which don't have a lot of commercial industrial property which the industrial i which the personal property tax was have seen significant losses seen in fillmore township lost two thousand dollars this year and as we know the promises made in two thousand and sixteen when the personal property tax repeal was on the ballot is that we would be made we local governments who have made whole for a social services like police fire and emergency services so but glad to be working with with jim and because i'm on the board of the michigan association of counties i've also  brought this to the attention of the association we're trying to get some restored of language through the legislature in june of this year so that least we're not permanently cripple but more importantly changing the formula so that it's easily understood should be transparent so that our finest directors and ministers can understand and give us the advice as elected officials what to expect in future years finally i know i'm in the last minute where by what you highlight last week thursday and friday we held a tourism conference with michigan state university's extension service the impact of tourism in michigan is remarkable last in two thousand and sixteen alone one hundred in one thousand million yes million people came to the state of michigan and our job there get they're coming here our job is to get them to visit us and spend their dollars here of course michigan at this point good take any questions at your at your direction thank you jim lee appreciate your letting us know what's going on in allegan and keeping that communication open your involvement in so many different places anyone have any questions evening even marin counsel ken freestone eight forty five easy street i just live three homes off of hope avenue so the hope avenue project is something that affects my neighborhood and i wanted to start with actually something that a fell w colleague of some of yours and mine at the time when i was on council joe haldeman said about a street when we really did that project about i think about eight or nine years ago when a street was rebuilt and infrastructure was reconstruct lot of things were reconstructed joe said if you build it like a rifle people will drive like a bullet and when we looked at the plans what was proposed for hope avenue is kind of what it looks like building it like a rifle people drive  bull i want to point out a couple of things that are that you have done as council and as the city has done just recently with like been royalty avenue where you put in traffic calming techniques and mechanisms in place for safe pedestrian crossing over to common park and to slow the traffic down a little bit so you've actually increased some traffic calming in some places where we've seen some very high traffic and high speeds and those are some great safety mechanisms the city and the makah area watershed meke tare coordinating council and number of organizations held a conference last year on green infrastructure storm water management and green infrastructure in general and a number of staff from the city and regional engineers and other entities participated in that and it looks like in this particular project with hope avenue that none of that was considered none of that was none no one even talked about green infrastructure or any ways to solve some of the issues that we might have or that are being talked about with storm water management through green infrastructure we have lots of great examples of how we can implement those best practices and improve the look of the community improve the storm water management and retain the character of many neighborhood many of the parts of this neighborhood we also have the state ability framework which who was put together by the sustainability committee this really was not consulted when we look at what the plan looks like there's a lot of questions that go unanswered and i think this is an opportunity to address it now and also it means that any projects you're looking at down the road we should be looking at that sustainability framework and answering those questions and we should start with people first and that's where some of the communications that the neighbors have talked about that we should be talking about this now for the projects in the future but we should be going to the neighborhood and seeing what presenting the goals for the road projects but also asking what do the neighbors want there's some great ideas we have engineers that live in there we have biology professors that live on our street we have construction managers that live there so these people understand and they have a lot of great ideas we also have initiatives going on where we're addressing and embracing and interview in surveying for our tree canopy and how do we increase that in this particular case we might want to look at ways that we don't eliminate our tree canopy and we actually look at the value of the trees for their natural features and also their aesthetic features of the neighborhood so i would like to see if there is an opportunity to really address some of the things going on with this particular project have a little time to talk to the neighbors and also i guess i want to one clarification on the march twenty eighth meeting that's a study session right so there really wouldn't wouldn't be a need would there be decisions made at that study session or will they part just want to make sure that everyone understood that what that what that scenario is like so take a little time talk to the neighbors if you haven't been out there go look at that neighborhood and also think  entities that are on that street you've got a lot of residents of course you have whole nights elementary school holidays christian reform church and you have a lot of local pedestrian traffic going on there i don't think you want to increase the speeds or increase the traffic in an area like that for safety reasons and for the you of the homes and the value of the character of the neighborhood so please take a little time to think this through very carefully and hopefully some of you will be able attend the meeting tomorrow hi my name is paul decwriter i'm at one forty nine west thirty seventh street in holland and i'd like to talk about short term rentals tonight sell first of all i just want to say thank you to council we have taken up a lot of council time talking about short term rentals and you guys have been very attentive to us and spent a lot of time thinking about it a lot of you went out to a lot of our houses to check them out and see what short term rentals are all about and that just shows me a lot of effort on your parts and i really appreciate that how you listen to us and i've done a lot of research on your own on your own time i know you've been looking on the internet and what are the pros and cons of short term rentals and i appreciate all the work to spend put into it so far by you and planning commission to short term rentals i just want to talk a little bit about my thoughts on  am i really like short term rentals our family travels and we do it we always look for short term rentals you know before they existed we would go on vacation and it's honestly kind of the worst part of a cation you on vacation we have a family of five you try to get in a hotel room and it just part that you always dread what's going to be like in the hotel you know it's just always a bad experience we switched to short term rentals and it's been a wonderful thing you know we go there and you get high quality facilities we've always had good experience you interact with the owners you get a good idea what the areas like what the house is like you get a full kitchen you can cook your own meals there it's really just changed the whole experience for us we really appreciate it helps with people of dietary needs they can't always go out to eat you can cook in your own full kitchen and we supply pots and pans and most of them do it's really helpful i appreciate just the city how it's a great city all of the neighborhoods i think are the best part when i go to a different city and i love to get into the neighborhoods and meet people and you go to the neighborhood you meet neighbors and you've sat in the get an idea of what's what's the town all about you know every neighborhood i've been to and how and it's great our neighborhood we're going to short term rental that's operates in a homestead and we get people in there all the time it's great to meet the people and where are you coming from what are you doing here it's great to meet people in the neighborhood my houses the neighbors love it they're all in favor of what they'd like to see people come in and now see what they're up to interact with them it's really neat  so i think just for tourism it just it just lets the tourist see the best part of holland be in the neighborhoods and it really just turns a good vacation i think into a great vacation finish and that housing experience so how do we get to  a high quality people they like to engage with their neighbors they are good for our community they come they want to see what happens all about and we just want to give them the best taste that we can so there's been a lot of great work done at the planning commission level i think we're really close on the proposal they've kind of put a proposal forward i think the pilot is a really a great idea i think we're on the right track there my thought is that it's a little bit too limited they limited to certain  sections of town and you know we've had in the past there's been about ten of us do on the short term rentals in the past the proposed area only includes one of those houses that have run it in the past so i think if we did a pilot in the proposed section it's not really going to have a lot of experience grounding him is going to buy a house for this to your pilot program and turn it into a short term rental i think we got to encompass some of them that have already been operating in the past come on board and offer our is up for the couple  pilot period there in just the regular section of holland close to downtown but not quite in the proposed area then i think you're going to get a lot of people that would do it again for the short period to get a good taste of what short term rentals wrong about  the pilot period would be helpful so i think limiting the scope is prudent it's a good idea let's limit the quantity but the scope let's just expanded out to all of the city hall and that would be helpful so i just encourage you guys to allow the pilot program within all the city limits and give it a good trial it's only two years just let it go and see we're going to be back again if it doesn't work two years and it's done and then we can just put the thing to bed and say it's it doesn't work out but i think urge everybody to give it a try it's a limited time limit the quantity and you get a good experience and good feedback from you what it would look like long term thank you thank you anyone  elaine paige i have a property at five thirty two central avenue and which is a short term rental first off i just want to thank you guys for working with us this has been a long process  e wonder if you're hiring because i've been coming here for four and a half years now it's the my short term rental has just been a joy and as most of you know people out here won't now but it was my home before i was married and i poured a lot of heart and soul into the home and i didn't want to sell it and listed it with the city hall and thought i was doing everything according to the rules and i would think city hall knew i was doing something wrong a lot people didn't even know that this was you know not a feasible situation but it's been a joy i mean that it's just been such a blast to do short term rentals the people i've met my neighbors bake brownies for rental you know the people that come to rent that recently i've had to turn away as paul mentioned to people for a swim meet and might have been the same  family weddings family reunions all that kind of stuff where people want to join and be together where they can put the kids to bed and then you know sit around the kitchen table and have a few drinks and play cards or something and there's a patio out back and you can grill and they really kind of get the essence of what holland is you can walk downtown a lot of the businesses and they spend a lot of money downtown holland so i'm not going to reiterate what paul said because i could just say ditto because we all are in agreement on that but even bob and pat ellen boss who are on the dutch colonial and whenever they had somebody that wanted just to stay for like a week they didn't want them for a week they want to for a shorter term and so we had a good relationship but since then i've had i've had to turn away you know several people but i would ask city council to relook at the pilot program i'm glad that we're to that point but to reconsider including you know the entire city because as paul mentioned there's only one property that's included in that the overlay program and to allow new short term rental properties in that really haven't had any experience in holland and maybe they're coming from outside the city limits who don't really have a vested interest in the city of holland i think that would be a detriment to the program and i really would encourage you to do you one more inclusive of all the areas and just give people a real flavor of what the city hounds about so i do appreciate all your time you know this has been on the table for many years so i hope we can come to an agreement and move forward with that with that we will close the public hearing thank you and i do really appreciate your willingness to come to a meeting your willingness to speak and now that's not an easy thing to do it's kind of an imposing situation and to speak your heart and to and also to do it in such a a civil reasonable way i think this type of presentation and conversation depend interaction is one that people from a lot of other places would love to experience so i know this is a difficult issue any know a lot of these things are  very hard about this proposed project but through all of that we just really appreciate and respect your willingness to stay within a system that doesn't always include the emotion you wanted to have so thank you so much for all of your input and for saying with us in this process and we'll see you again tomorrow night privately so thank you ok we are now move on to reports good evening madam mayor city council members so the planning review committee was stablished back in may and their first meeting due to some  tiers we have we the committee developed tier one wishes to keep as it is that was the greatest amount of information or i'm sorry of properties hundred thirty two out of one hundred sixty information the committee worked on is kind of like the lowing fruit are thirteen properties three of which are developing as is or are recommended as developed developable as is i'll talk just a little bit on that in one moment and then there's the tear three which are considered the catalyst projects and for those these are primarily those those properties that are located in downtown but also surrounding the airport destroyed it this is the large map of all of these properties where the yellow  standards they have utilities and there's certain options as to as to what to do with them at this point those three properties that again are  west thirty sixth street four twenty eight northbound us thirty one and one ninety six east sixteenth street i should mention that there have been a couple of calls about that property because the adjacent home is now for sale  so within this this there is a little bit of of urgency for the city manager's office to take this report up and to begin perhaps looking at assessments because that would increase for proposals that are these would be primarily for nonprofit organizations throughout the city or and or working with developers  and this is an example of what that is also what the city would like to gain from that site also another recommendation from the committee was to develop property information briefs for those properties that are not necessarily a substantial for instance for twenty eight northbound us thirty one there is some work that would need to be done on this property but but there are several different options which are discussed in the recommendation  have the this area quickly three properties again these are the catalysts properties that the committee recommends further analysis be  downtown sites and also really looking at the parking lots and how they interconnect with each other and how there is potential perhaps for development along with with keeping the parking then this goes through what basically everything that i just said the only other added one would be that the committee recommends the proceeds of the property sells for all to hear two and three properties be put into number ging needs fund to be used in the future as council sees fit for council priorities thank you thank you jenna any questions or comments legally to one group or the other or what's the legal belief of b p debbie is that the public works is that a separate entity it is a department of the city of hama special department because it has some special charter status but all of the property of the b p w is city of holland property it's our title or the name of the city of ok now static ated to you use and there are some special provisions in the charter that might affect the use of the property but the city of holland own property ok so there's so you do we have titles are always pieces title in the city of holland somewhere or there is a do we have to really survey them and go through a process or is it already been done complaint the planning commission sex in the proposed text amendments to create and then owner occupied short term rental pilot program jim is back for that thank you sure thing so i'm going to skip well i'm going to just present this first slide and then skip to the last slide which is the owner occupied short term rental pilot program section  just as a quick recap there are four different types of short term rentals owner occupied with is already been approved by council has been recommended by planning commission and i see to go forward and has been the recommendations are for just cleaning up of the process for the the program they have also been recommended by planning commission in the neighborhood improvement committee and our have been accepted for first reading by you today for final adoption on april eighteenth the types that have not yet been approved by councils the tulip time that was recommended by planning commission and you just accepted it for first reading and now we get to the last one which is the not owner occupied in residential zone districts which house of member jay peters took off of the so first of all what they came to the planning commission and they decided that they felt better instead of having it in all of the residential zone districts which is what was first proposed i suggested for an overlay district this was brought to them by a charge by city council on november first for staff to develop a program to present it to plenty commission for a recommendation staff did they have staff working on it really look to how how to best package it to look at putting it in with the long term rental program which has been very much well developed and very much well executed for the last several years here in the city and that's where the chapter fourteen comes along and so the thought in terms of the the the pilot program the non owner occupied short term rentals and residential is for the primary regulations to be in chapter fourteen which is the housing chapter in a new section division of that chapter so this is the the map of the overlay district that was developed by planning commission where the thought was by planning commission that it would be a short walk from downtown down to fourteenth street and through years to twenty five short term rentals in those boundaries and then five hundred foot buffer so going back to the map here these circles represent that those buffers so randomly picked a property and put a buffer around at the black line represents a five hundred foot buffer and the red one of thousand foot just for comparisons and then the planning commission discussed many different options in terms of the boundary on the west side of the site of the city saying that the often tourists do want to be near the lake and in this respect consider several different options and chose this one to incorporate the the majority of of that area thank you are there any questions  sure well had i not pulled it off and we just had accepted the agenda this whole thing would go away and i've had we've had way too much fun in discussions over this that let that die so unceremoniously so i could live that have we're talking about air b n b we're talking about your b o as we're talking about twenty five percent of all the lodging that has taken place in the united states in the last twelve months has taken place in an air b n b mr story was here talking about tourism having grown up in this area i've come to appreciate this rather unique jaeger feel we have between hope college downtown highland central city neighborhoods or parks and that is a geography where these kinds of things we tend to pop up in fact nine of the ten that we know exist or have existed and have done some business but have had to get out of the business because we don't allow them in fact have kind of sprung up in this area rather organically so i think i just i think that we have so we're sewed divided on this thing  there's a lot of people who think it's a really good idea and there are some what jim it concerns i think on the part of some of my colleagues about what might happen but the fact the matter is we don't know what i do know is we've had ten or so of those things operating of the short term rentals with people coming staying over the last few years and having attended true public hearings which more than fifty people spoke different events to call it twenty five but each one not one person got up to that mike and said this is the worst thing on the planet these are bad bad for the city my neighbors are having a fit the neighborhood burning down none of that is happening what i did here were businesses come to the mike and say you know for us like a business like uniform color when they bring in say a vice president who doesn't preening for a week or ten days at a time they really appreciated having a few of the short term rentals available to them so that those people could stay in that type of lodging because it's more it's better than stand out a us thirty one economy watch type things in a sea of parking lot they like to be able to walk downtown it's good it's just good stuff they like it i heard churches come to the microphone pastors saying you know we like this because when we bring in people from the church and we'd rather have them stay in this housing environment he's better for them they enjoy that i heard lots of people from the community say you know my mother in law my mother lives at freedom village when i come and visit with three kids we can stay at freedom village but we really like staying in a couple of these in these but preface and they speak specifically about some of these few here b and b s are the short term roles we have so i i use them twenty five percent of everybody that went to bed tonight in america sleeping is the ping in one of these things doesn't necessarily mean it's good for holiday but i do believe the twenty five well regulated well run short term rentals do does and will provide some options to people who have come to the microphone in good faith saying we really want these things and not  jeopardize and the benefits far far outweigh any type of negative things that we have that's the glory of the pilot let's find out let's find out i have a pretty strong sense that i'll be amazed if we get to twenty five of these things  in a two year period of time so far of the air be in the short term rentals that we have for owner occupied there's been three signed up so far since we've allowed this over a last little months and months and months where i'm struggling is the rationale at the planning commission and the net and the neighborhood improvement committee have done some phenomenal work and i want to thank them for that we've house spent a lot of time trying to figure this out and i think we up and ground zero just as many people think it's a good idea just many people it's a bad idea where i'm struggling is this overlay program that we've come up with  eight or nine of the ten or so of these things that we know exist have already been invested we know do are operating in an environment where we've had absolutely no problems so i i'm sure i  don't i'm struggling with what's been recommended here so when i'm done talking before this conversation is over i would like to entertain an idea that we do everything that the planning commission is reckoned as has given to us in the form of a pilot they didn't recommend it it was ford for can't make up their mind again i think that's rational for a good idea to try this thing but what i want to suggest that we do this where they are now where those investments are where so many people have come to appreciate the work that's actually being done in a few of these things and call it in our traditional neighborhood in our one and our two and let the market determine where these things go if i had any concerns about wow where are these going to go what's going to happen i think we would have known by now i think we would have had some pretty good notions that these things are good  this sharing economy is not going away and i think this is only a tip to do twenty five of these things i think it is a smart smart thing you know we have four thousand four hundred rental units in this taking twenty five they're already taken out of these pot these homes have already been invested too much in much a sense that they'll never be affordable housing because if the investments are already there i think i'm hoping that we can we can find a way to let to let holland be part of a global economy and do a few of these things to meet the needs of what people have made pretty clear to me and i think others there's a real demand for these i think i want to i have no doubt that our staff is able to operate these things and i've no doubt in the little people that i know that we've already got ten people running these things we've got another it's if ten more people come forward i think there's there's elements of the program that they their investments require that they do a great job or people won't stay they're just kind of the self governing so i'll shut up i let my colleagues talk but before this is over i want to make a motion that we amend the recommendation here and expand the area to where we might allow twenty five of these things to kind of evolve organically rather than dictate where they go where we don't have them right now so and the difficulties that your hair went on i thought well what what's what you're doing makes perfect sense should be that hard to fix and you know it's probably just a from can our system you know we're all tweaking what get it fixed up and what was improvement everybody who's put effort into this it's it's been a long and drawn out affair a lot of effort sometimes almost literally blood sweat and tears but into it and not always with a lot of acceptance and their way you don't get a job thanks for your work in the course of the conversation or the right year or two that we've been talking about this a number of concerns have been voiced about allowing short term rentals in the our traditional neighborhoods  and i appreciate those concerns nobody wants to have a neighborhood that is deteriorating or is negative negatively affected we put effort over the years in trying to counter that with different but i sincerely believe that the existence of short term rentals is not going to pose those problems where we're not of south cave in our grand haven immediately from access where people are going to be right or something distinctive about who we are and and rather jay has particularly that stuff very well what i have difficulty in when it comes to decision making is and to my way of thinking that too was the beauty of the pilot program we don't know we have no history we can't point to any data that says well if this happens this is going to happen if we allow these these things that we're this but worst case scenario for doesn't work it doesn't work at least we know that may be again worst case scenario as we wind up with twenty properties maybe we would still have to operate that way i don't know things very very well i think a trial program is a good way to approach this to find out if it's going to work or not i think not trying it robs us of an opportunity of something that could be extremely valuable to this community in terms of tourism in terms of assistance and support or business community to police it atmosphere here and just in serving the needs of the community themselves there's all kinds of situations where people eat short term housing for one reason or another of this could fit that it just makes sense to be to do this and i would agree with expanding the area that these are allowed in as well look at  an important issue so i'm glad you pulled it off now i'm probably the unique person up here that gets frustrated by all this stuff because you know we didn't take it off but when we vote you know a couple weeks on the the owner occupied piece to well got to mean i don't understand why we don't have these everywhere and just one pop up and then people tell me around here we need to have some rules and i'm like sure but you know at this is the worst thing in the world and i'm just like i don't agree and at the same at the same token i think what's so why i am not scared about it is because of what we sat here for an hour listening to about hope avenue is people's investment in their neighborhoods and you know in what's going on and how they communicate with each other and they're plugged in the fear that they all this in these neighborhoods are going to go away isn't going to happen because these people love to live here it's not like they're going to say well i am a sell my house to move away and all these investors are going to come in and build it up but forgetting all that because to me this is you know for getting the outcome side on the policy side what the challenges is saying hey only in these spaces are we going to try this as a pilot and i asked a question last week ok well when i think of a pilot it's hey here's what we're going to do here's what we're going to measure and then if we get these results then we're going to figure out a way to roll it out everywhere else and i haven't understood well what are we measuring how we can know if it works or not and then the other the other piece included in that is kind of this like it's either going to work or it's not and i don't think it's a zero sum kind of a thing i think it's work it might work differently in different places than a dozen other spots within the city but it's not probably going to be as black and white as yes there are good or no other bad i  can i can pretty much bet you we're going to have a neighborhood where one of these goes up and it's a negative experience oh well let's learn from it and move on i mean that happens with rentals all the time long term it happens with homeowners trust me i get e mails all the time about you know my neighbor snuck over the fence to cut something off and i got socks you know you know people don't like who lives next door to them sometimes ok well that that's part of how it works you know we have a ton of other rules and regulations in place when people are worried about you know we're go a bachelor party i'm like look buddy i don't know about you but when i was looking for that west twenty ninth street by jefferson wasn't the place i was looking around a house out you know it's not that that's not the crazy place to go and if it is we've got five hundred other rules that the police department can use to  go after that stuff including the number of cars you can have in your your driveway when you can park overnight on the street j knows that well and so i think that's where i said we've got a lot of other things in place to prevent this from getting out of  control and so the fear of well that's going to turn into all this stuff i just don't think it is and if i'm wrong address it at that point because i think there's other things we could do but it's almost disingenuous in my opinion for us to have a pilot because we really don't it's more hey let's just try this so that people stop bringing it up because we've been talking about it for four and a half years you know which look cannot you see the public process roll out it's inefficient and that's put that part of it's on purpose  but there's a lot of people to consider you know in the process and so to me i still don't think and they have as we look forward to jay's point and i'm a little younger than everybody up here i don't know if you knew that but i think these are going to be used more and i think they're going to use different than we even know what they are and that the point was brought up earlier hey we try to do all the right stuff because nobody even knew what this was because it didn't exist fifteen twenty years ago it did it just wasn't regulated the same way and you couldn't go on a on a web site to do it and so that that's where for me it's going to continue to evolve and we've got to continue to evolve at the same time i would bet yeah sure we need to have some things in place of the bottom doesn't fall out but i think we have those already in a lot of places so you want to move it to a couple places i want to use the city limits as the other the border let's do a pile and see what happens and that's not going to happen and i get that but i  just i want to make that point you know clear because to me i think hey let's try it let's see what happens in let's go from there versus hey if you move into this neighborhood then you can use your house this way but if you're in this neighborhood you can't i mean the last point i make is i think if you own your home and it's owner occupied home i have no clue why the city needs to come to my house and do an inspection and check up all it's my house not my colleagues agree with me that's fine but i'm just you know we'll talk about it different seniority rank has its privileges probably in that i'm going to apologize right off the bat i've made my opinions known in the past in my opinions have not it is not because of what you have done with your places i'm sure they're absolutely beautiful i don't need to come and see him that's not the issue with me just hope you're here and that brian you brought up a very important question which i think the planning commission in the neighborhood improvement commission committee also had is they did not see the criteria which this was going to be evaluated  if i was reading the reports correctly i tend to share your concern in that i have a problem why have a pilot if you don't have any matrix or criteria that measure things by  i'm just a tad bit confused here and these may be rhetorical questions but i guess i'd like some answers did we ban all short term rentals in the city  holland i don't think so that is the discussion i'm hearing tonight is that we don't have any anyplace we do i'm in school this is a business brian asked why these have to be inspected you bring in john q public into a private residence you're bringing them into a business if this was a hotel if this was a bed and breakfast everybody's got the rules and regulations you're trying to protect the public that is one of our main functions the budget health safety and welfare of the public that's that's what we're all about brain you're you're exactly right i don't agree with i am probably second to you and second a tad whiteman personal property rights champion but i also have to understand i also have to take into consideration the larger scope of the ramifications of the decisions that we make is the world going to fall apart more than likely not is short term rental a bad thing in and of itself you know we've proven that you know our districts that we have that we've allowed to have for quite some time now the concern is the specific business like atmosphere that we're allowing to come into our neighborhoods and if i'm reading this correctly with a little bit less regulation inspection whatever you want to call it then other business entities have have i think i've been pretty consistent on that we've got the hotels we've got this we've got that it's a business i'm sorry i didn't matter which way you want to dice it slice it it's a business we have short term rentals i believe if i understood mr peters correctly there's only three new ones show me the need i don't see the need if you're going to tell me this is you build them they will come ok i've used that a couple of times on sidewalks and it's worked you build them they start walking on the sidewalks  i wish i could say the same thing but on street parking but that's a whole different discussion so that with all due respect to the to the owners of these properties and to my colleagues i'm just i cannot support this at this time two major reasons first of all show me the need second of all tell me why this is america is going to be sleeping tonight near b and b as well i think you meant to say twenty five percent of tourism will be sleeping there b and b so it's quite considerably less of america's going to be sleeping there b and b s to me but we keep talking about how this is roll business or benefit business and i want to know how it's going to benefit the homeowner living in the residential area they've made an investment their property as well and we keep talking about how it's going best then it's going to help the  investor but the property owner itself bought in a residential neighborhood for a purpose or a reason and we all know what those reasons are right community you know being with the neighborhood kids playing with one another and allowing for randomly having homes being purchased up for the purpose of run two and running them out short term like a business i don't think is appropriate we have zoning for a purpose we also talk about your b m b's being very popular across the nation i gree they are only sure communities and downtown shopping areas high traffic areas huge tourist areas yes but certainly not in residential areas concern about a pilot program you're right was it clearly outlined what the that would be i think the nick had decided there was going to be some measurements or performance standards regarding the evaluation of whether this program was going well or not but my real concern about the pilot program is the legal challenges that will face i really believe that if we find out this doesn't work and or let's say we decide we want to leave it specifically to these restricted areas and others come knocking on the door demanding that we expand this throughout the city it's going to create some legal challenges and we've had that discussion as a board  see i really think this is going to take away from now affordable housing that are available it's already difficult for people coming to holland who want to live in how to find a home that they can only afford but that's even available it's very difficult and we're going to take that mark up very quickly with people who want to invest as has been suggested purchase and a vest and become a business person inside residential neighborhoods again i just think that we we are allowing it to happen and we're not saying no i applaud that we're having these types of the saudis and inside the city where we have tourism we have we're living w i love all that but to be in a residential neighborhoods i think there's there's a point there's a line in the sand that we all have to draw and say we're starting to get into areas where business already in the should not be in residential neighborhoods so thank you favor i waffled a few times i've talked to a lot of people but i'll go back to the premise that i support this is a pilot program i think it should be said he why over the last couple weeks i was gone have to florida talked to a lot of people down there in fact there was a couple from empire michigan down there which is near traverse city apparently and i asked them about rentals short term rentals and they said oh yeah we don't like those we don't we're fraid of them referred there's well have you had any problems noah but we don't like them but we're down in florida and what are they doing they're using real by owner down there so it's ok down there but i don't want to did but we have used them in charleston and washington d c and florida a lot of places see if harlen we've also expanded our thinking we've been willing to try them the little many homes on sixteenth street reached said let's try something different i think that looks like a pretty neat thing down there i don't think maybe the long term outcome is not there yet but it looks like we  need to try that we went into the three buildings we will allow them to build like a small unit in their backyard so we've kind of said from the let's try that i think that's worked out pretty well so either you can try new things or you can not trying new things and i think probably as i've been on city council longer been more willing to try things i think what i originally started and i don't think we've learned that and i think that your time goes on you find the world is not going to come to an end you've got to try new things that's what progress is about being futuristic if it doesn't work we will back pedal if this isn't work at home with heights we we will figure this out we will figure this out for washington school we will figure this out for how and how it's we'll figure it out for short term rentals as well i think we should give it a try i think it's a reasonable idea we sat on this for a very long time and it's time to to make a decision and i think we ha saw i've been a huge advocate of affordable housing i mean that's that's something that's near and dear to my heart i've you know been gauged with a lot of the population that that's in need of affordable housing so i know the the reality of some of those issues and challenges and but when it comes to this this pilot program i mean i do feel that there is an opportunity here that i don't think we should or should miss and feels like you know some of the homes some of the property owners and i feel like you know i definitely don't want to miss an opportunity to try this out and i do understand kind of the the concern with the risk of allowing these things to pop up everywhere and regulated i feel like this approach is a place to start and i would also agree that i think the lowest risk is is in expanding citywide to encompass some of these properties that have already been operating right that they know how to do this i have but i think a commitment to the city i think clued them in those initial twenty five probably pulls the lowest risk for investment right for other investors coming in and not knowing what their what their intent is other than to make money off of these things i guess that's that's about it for me thank you  not this is definitely something that commission and the neighborhood improvement committee struggled with and certainly felt that there needed to be some concrete metrics in in the program worked into the program something n terms of of letting council know what has happened in terms of nuisance issues if there's been any you know reports complaints cetera many of foresman issues that have occurred with us a lot about well we have some type of a metric can we say you know so if ten if there's ten complaints that means that it's not successful or if there's five complains then then that means that it's unsuccessful and we went back and forth with that and where we left off was really that the planning commission and the neighborhood improvement committee felt that that would be best be done by counsel as to  really determine those those hard numbers but certainly they were for that and and like i said struggled a lot with those with how do we really determine success now just  in the purpose statement of the the pilot there are there are issues in terms of saying that that the purpose of the pilot is to test to balance the needs of those who are for it and those that are against it in a smaller kind of test tube capacity and in that there are statements such as that it would lot about maybe making those as the actual determination as to whether or not it succeeded if there was some type of a metric that could determine how much economic value the short term rentals  received and what not i was just handed the so the neighborhood improvement committee members specifically they said to develop a valuation metrics that directly address the items listed in the purpose statement including balancing needs thank you needs contributing to the local economy providing homeowners an opportunity to hold property in difficult economic circumstances holding property as an investment maintaining the character of neighborhoods controlling the density of short term rentals maintaining affordable housing options and addressing nuisance concerns and i recall madam mayor as the planning commission rhymes with hero and how is our last or more affordable than in two thousand and to i mean to say that this is driving that is ridiculous and to to measure that in some way of the houses are less affordable trust meeting about seven i made a comment about eleventh twelfth and thirteenth street and i was instantly reprimanded by council colleagues who spoke very highly of what those neighborhoods used to look like  the hope college neighborhood as being family neighborhoods nothing to do with the short term runnels that caused the change in those neighborhoods so that's were for me i'm going to have a problem saying hey houses are less affordable because we have short term runnels i'm also going to struggle saying you know when you say well what are you doing for the homeowner well if i was or less affordable that means that their house is worth more i think we just get it is really great area what we're trying to evaluate things that really aren't in our purview you know we're there's just a lot of other stuff that gets thrown in there and that that's why for me trying to understand well what does it mean if they're more successful i think we can repeat this one schools you know in terms of you know what schools haven't you know they've gotten better they haven't whatever that thing we're going to measure around schools you know i'd like to understand that better and how we're going to isolate the impact of short term runnels and that's why i get back to the point of saying geez we probably can't measure this stuff in any different way than sitting for an hour listening to public comment from neighbors saying you're ruining my neighborhood wow geez let's listen to that and then say hey we should probably figure something out at that point and so that's why i'm a proponent saying hey let's let's put them in places and then let people come tell us hey there's a problem sweet instead of us in hey let's go find a solution to a problem that hasn't come up yet we spend a lot of time doing  happens and then we'll fix it but let's not try to overregulate it to the point where susy's got a roller skates out there in jimmy's got his bike out there gee i guess it was a failure let's not go that way weeks we're talking about occupy we're allowing this to occur and we haven't even really if i waited what we're doing already going back to performance measurements now my new you suggest in two thousand zero that's because in two thousand and ten people were following the rules and they would have ten ten people aren't following the rules if they're in residential neighborhoods right because we have not allowed not owner occupied in residential areas so if they're doing i plan and a master plan we work very hard on approving adopting and we've given leverage to that and we've adjusted to that by passing ordinances we're allowing certain things to to to  go into certain areas and now we're talking about residential areas specifically i think we need to be very cautious and judicious about doing this if you move ahead with it i agree with mr councilman we definitely have some criteria but we've talked about that as policy as this board is we need to adopt a policy that we can start as a board reviewing what we're doing or passing the zoning and these rules and regulations and all these things that we're doing we need to have a policy or a process to where we can buy we work with our performances and use it so we're not over regulating it if you're on to raise your hand if you can do a short term rental in your house like in your neighborhood on this council i don't think any of us on a council are despotic to do this because yeah well then how is that not over regulated the nine of us couldn't write a console or house to someone to do it s t r like the people that live right next door to us couldn't do it  well you know i mean you guys want to me to come here in full of form out into as other work but that's a side point well that's what that's also to me is i have an issue with that that we're going to say well took time to do whatever they want and we're going to just you know no regulation required you can just run your house out for two weeks because people are here to look at some flowers that to me i promise that because you know i do it is just not consistent with us saying because to mike's point it's about health safety well mr why isn't about how safe you want us for those two weeks now i don't want to give the idea of then trying to regulate those two weeks but the that's that's what that's where to me it's just a consistency issue going back to a policy level pushed back by the planning saying how to provide oversight for that very very difficult road to window so they were going to pass a two week window or allow that during our high tourist during a special time in holland or we're not equal or exceed those of surrounding townships of interesting goal there are other things in there but if my goal is to measure whether these enterprises or we're getting really crazy with this you know and we do have a second regional office too so right just to remind us well it's not an easy issue that's why it's taken this long and everyone is not agreed and that that's why i think and the neighborhood improvement committee which is a group of volunteers dedicated to improving community and the city voted against this and the planning commission continued to vote against it and could only get a four four vote to even recommend an overlay after they were told to do that so people that are not getting paid to die they just care about the welfare of neighborhoods and and the success of highland as a city are not agreed that this is a great idea putting it in residential zones and as has been said we have the potential for a lot of short term rentals in holland today every single house could be an owner occupied short term rental house every day all year lot every neighborhood commercial district every highway commercial district every p u g every others of those type of zones are now ok for short term rentals it is not only ten short term rentals that we have in the city of highland it's at least triple that so it is something that will grow like wildfire  ninety percent it has grown by ninety percent in the state of michigan in one year and the profits for those who did short term rentals in traverse city last year were four point three eight million four point three eight million dollars short term rental people made in traverse city last year it is very lucrative super profitable you can make so much money very easily and gorgeous neighborhoods in very tender residential zones it's so attractive who cannot do it who doesn't want to do it the problem is for me is i feel like what is a neighborhood why do you buy a house why do you live in a neighborhood and you as a homeowner have an axe level of expectation about where you move and you go there to look at the house you look around you talk to the neighbors you get a feel for that area and you get a sense of do i want to raise my family here is this going to be the kind of place i want to raise my family and we just heard from all those people i'm hoping avenue about that process and how they made that decision and what their expectations were when they got that property and located their family there they made a contract with the council we elected you on council to protect that investment in our neighborhood of what we want about a city that we love and we trust you to make decisions that will continue to make this a neighborhood i want to be in in a city that i love and that's the heart of it for me it is very hard for me to break that trust and the thing that comes to my mind is this quote from a sixteen hundreds play that says heaven has no rage like love to hatred turned nor hell a fury like a woman scorned and i think when you buy a house and you move to a neighborhood it is love decision you have a relationship with your neighborhood and you expect to love that and to enjoy living there and when that contract is broken it is it turns to hatred and you know we just heard from people that felt that contract was somewhat broken about their neighborhood how do they feel about that it's not a happy deal and if you start multiplying that through the through the neighborhoods in residential districts in the city you will have a problem i think we'll have a problem with the trust in the council in the trust and how we do things here and really we have zoning in cities too to do that same kind of thing zoning is not about our house zoning is about all the houses around us so that we know when we buy into a residential zone it will be residential around us till the commercial district starts we did not buy that house expecting a motel next door and then another motel three or four doors down and maybe another motel in the next block and i as we have gone over helping the city develop one of the main things we wanted to do was encourage owner occupancy because we felt there's a higher level of responsibility toward neighborhood and that's not only in holland that's every where in lockwood who came here from as a developer from all over the world made those same statements you want to help owner occupancy but when it's so lucrative when you can move out and go live on a lake and rent out your little house and make thousands of dollars a month why would you stay there and those are choices that people are making in places these are not fear stories these are all based on real experiences in real cities that have had difficult situations in retaining the trust with their council about how they're going to develop their community and how they're going to retain that sense of neighborhood you could feel every single person that came here tonight came here because they love this city they love their neighborhood they want to invest with their people in their neighborhood they want to keep it good and make it better howland is and is a great city because it is willing to be entrepreneurial we love new ideas we love doing new things but we don't want to be cavalier about it the only case that has held up in the courts about short term rentals in controlling it from a city municipal perspective was in i believe was a township where they said they could not have short term rentals in residential zones and air b n b took them to court and it held up because it was through all of the residential zones there hasn't been a case where it tested allowing some and still being able to control that because number whatever is one more and why can't that one more have equal rights to the rest so they're i'm sure there will be legal challenges because money is involved and money is a huge force in today's world so do you have a motion would like to move we do maybe you need to help me with this but i would like to move that we have centrally to do what the pilot suggested except expanded to the true residential one and residential ordinance that didn't get a recommendation in favor of it by the planning commission and was recommended against by the neighborhood improvement commission so if you just adapt the recommendation and it's that so the the motion should be to adapt or be the motion should be to place the draft ordinance on for a first reading then once that's been seconded i think to accomplish what you were just asking about would be a motion to amend  to allow the non o an occupy short term rentals i think you said in any residential zone district or in the city and then there's one other thing i would suggest we have blanks in the chapter fourteen sections on an end date in two thousand and twenty pick a date for an end date for your motion to amend as well ok so the first step is a motion to place the  draft ordinance on for first reading so moved support the second step there would be a motion to amend allowed in any residential zone district and to set it and date we need to see that vote on that motion that we just keep going here need to do about and to of if you vote on the motion then you're done ok if we want to do an amendment you got to move to it maybe i'd like to move an amendment that we instead of doing it where we've recommended certain overly districts i would recommend we do it to the r t r one in our two so and i would recommend that that two year period that two year pilot and two years after  board members that are here that we're seeing the support the rationale the overlay zones the motion now just placed on that we're voting to the entire city all residential so hopefully that's clear to everybody paula do you have any distance between things today or is it just all the ones that are already doing it or fails and you're back to the original motion that would be to adopt the draft ordinance that you have before us as it is in there could be another motion to a man but not the same and then this you just voted down ok so do you have any more questions about this amendment and motion that hasn't been voted on yet yes press one point of the and this is just a put on first reading if this would pass as well yeah the one of the first potion is do a man once that's done then you vote on the amended motion and that would be to place it on for first reading is to go forward with adapting this proposed ordinance and a draft ordinance i i guess draft is a better word because it's not proposed by the agencies ok by that if you want to go forward or adapted the draft ordinance with the amendment the first step is to vote for the motion to amend second motion second is to then vote to approve the amended motion that helps but i first read that puts it on for first reading correct again that the second final reading at the end to make that actually the policy correct so first we have to vote to agree to this amended motion  term rentals throughout the entire residential area and ignore the overlay district tim could you please call the roll kersti yes left yes corben no ok so that has passed and now we need a vote to put it on first reading is that you saying to put it on for first reading by the way i should also suggest that you know when we get to the first reading and section seventeen one of the things that we need to do is is  scheduled for a public hearing at the next regular meeting because we are expanding it well beyond what there was a public hearing on so there should be a public hearing before council the council can adapt it with amendments can schedule a hearing but because for you know the lion's share of residential districts that was not before the planning commission so it would need to do a public hearing but that we would take that up when we get the item seventeen ok so everyone clear enough are voting on this time to put this on first hearing yes so now if this was to fail it's done yes did i just ask him or if you have family households so that's kind of what we're talking about there what you see before you is kind of the breakdown of the bids received we went out for bid for my dates here real quick we went out for bid on january twenty fifth and bids were opened on february nineteenth we had a total of four bids returned and one bit of no bid that and hope it is reflects primarily what's currently established at the city as far as our core program so refuse and recycling as they're mandated by city ordinance we put an emphasis on education and outreach focusing on recycling and increasing diversion from landfill so trying to get as much out of landfill as possible and then our core programs everything from yard waste all the way down to project pride and some additional mandates that were new to this are if he were the requirement of completion of a waste characterization study the development of route sheets to be able to programs such as composting so as we had a breakdown you can see here the overview of those bits received as we break down the cost for over the life they've presented the bit that's most in line with our goals as well as city ordinance and with the added benefit of being lowest cost so with the rest of these hollers th require additional investment in resources like recycling containers we open up this bid specifically not mandating the single pass approach because we want to get is an exhaustive had extensive review of what services are out there and what those cost would be and we were able to do that and present it to you in this review so we have a holistic approach so we know how our system as it currently stands stacks up to what is available out there just in summary and year one investment for recycling taters those to the tune of about four hundred thousand dollars so again with chef they offer our current system in the single pass recycling bag or yellow bag recycling program so with that being said we think it's pretty c r they came in with the lowest bid in that would be our recommendation to council so ok great thank you aaron any questions or comments for  this may look simple and easy but it has not been it's a bit of a very long complicated process and the simplicity is just because we've had talked about it a lot and work through a lot and the staff has been all over that so why did you i say something  you started this process a long time ago well over here and unite had some discussions early on and i am by no way shape or form an expert in trash hauling but i do happen to know something about recycling which is very near and dear to my heart so we're going to be holding chef even tighter to the fire and whatever happens down the  line on the recycling side because that's you know we talked about sustainability we talked about a number of those things that's where we're headed the reports that you're going to be getting back and things like that should reflect the residential not combined but the residential portions of the recycling and the tonnage and so on and so forth so thank you very much for listening thank you very much for your diligence on this this was a tough one and it was time it is i mean we don't want to get comfortable we've had  far as i'm concerned we've had a very good process some bumps and bruises along the way get her nose bumped and we learn just like has been talked about many times tonight already hopefully we don't make those same mistakes and i don't think we have i don't think we will in the future but it has been a learning process and i think we're going to have a great outcome in reducing the landfill getting our numbers up  as far as recycling goes and hopefully even expanding it i hope to get in the multi families hope to convince people in the multi families that we don't have right now get it to be a way of life don't even think twice about it kenyans bottles plastics look at them in the recycling don't even think twice about it and with technology coming up maybe even get a little bit deeper into the basics so my blathering on here at nine thirty at night thanks to you yes you did thank you very much thank you to the participants that did this it's that one of the necessities of life that we have to have is for us as we talked about earlier the health safety and welfare of the city you put a lot of blood sweat and tears into this and we're looking forward to smooth transition and business picking up that's my plan for the night time to go home i don't know where you are you'll get all that easy because the funniest thing you said all that was when you said your conversations with aaron because those were not the conversations a couple times you were late in doing so you did a great job you i just like to follow up on just a couple points there so the waste to emphasize the focus on increasing recycling the waste characterization study is critical in that because it does take kind of to a two pr  identify additional avenues to increase diversion and if that next kind of step is typically looking at composting and identifying whether that's a viable program if it works for the community we'll have those numbers looking at our waste stream that goes to landfill the say we can divert x but we're hoping to also expand into or hopefully identify other alternatives and expand explore what options are out there whether it's companies like terra cycle or whoever else bring out to you all know that that will make it no for the public that the whole customer service aspect of this is going back to the b b debbie and we think that that's a tremendous thing too i really like it too because i'm going to get aaron and danielle back actually doing part of their job so right now they invest a big part of their time doing customer service calls we've got other things for them to do so for with aaron really want to be able to get him to the point of working the educational aspect of this took mike talking about sustainability and indeed getting those recycling rates up and getting in the schools and really kind of putting an educational program on steroids in seeing what we can do so that's that's one thing we just simply have not had the time to do because we're we're in the trenches just doing the programming so really looking forward to a july one when to get these people back and we can serve us in some really new and innovative things and you know work in a program yes that bess is eight zero but a peaceful place that was thank you air and could you tell us about gifts please tim i think that will be well received as well city managers office is pleased to report the following gifts parks and recreation digraph nature center land improvements and fundraising void could teary cough and one hundred dollars community human relations department hall and youth connections program your six michael and judy vischer twenty five dollars it's recommended these donations be accepted with appreciation expression of gratitude be forwarded to said i won't be said here in this chair any longer so i just want to take this opportunity and it's pretty easy now because there's most of europe here i don't have to but if you have or so to say thanks to counsel for really you know putting your trust in  and your confidence in me to do this job and it means a lot to me that you leave all of that much of you put me in this position so hopefully i was able to accomplish a few things i really wanted it was it's been a great opportunity for me to work with a lot of people city hall that i that i hadn't had that experience of the police department the one i need to go on the record and say i was i was part of the probably the strangest most inefficient meeting that i have ever been part of my entire career all all of us were you know the workers comp you know next or turn and but i think after a while he he he was just kind of toying with us and he picked up on it and every time he would the same at matt he looked up and in this kind of laughing  i won't be the official interim city manager but i'm going to be there with him and heath and will will tag team the budget and we'll figure it out because he's going to be on the job for a whopping two days so i don't think he's going to be able to grasp the entire budget in thanks thanks thank you now we really really appreciate your willingness to not do this once but twice in less than a year and no one would've predicted those things but i do really think the city has been served well by having people with different perspectives and different gifts in different positions through the through this all this transition i think it is really honed a lot of things and and helped us in ways that the same person may not have so i distrust that whole process and bringing you in from a whole different world that is very systematized and doesn't have a lot of choices and there's a real black and a real why don't we are there and coming into this world i think is great for all of all of us and i they as you said it's such an amazing leadership team that you can step out of one chair and into another and back into that other chair and everybody's good with that so we realize that this has been a huge personal sacrifice for you matt i know you don't say that but i saw those bleary eyes that the beginning with the team the pages of everything it was really a huge ask and top of everything you left on a street to come up here and you did all of it like a soldier like but you know with excellence and dedication and heart and and with a smile you know that's it's an amazing amazing leader so we are very grateful but this was a that the leadership team really was the the back wall behind this whole thing you know leaned out a lot of people so everybody was part of that leadership team a little part has mazing staff do a great job and without them this the strains my initial transition this would would not be successful so really the with a lot of the credit belongs to them as well and they have really had a year  you know and amazing amazing way that everybody has galvanized you could either all break up or really get stronger together and i see you know i just see great things that happen this year with everybody stepping up with that same leadership caring in shoulder to shoulder like this is going to get even better and we're going to make it happen and they have so we couldn't ask for anything more in the city thank you so much so we are actually within forty five days of the first day or two of time is that amazing hardly seems like it but it is coming and probably most kids are saying it's a week and a half to spring break that's all that matters  they're there are little till it's coming up and now we will all get together and celebrate great things in the city and that's so nobody does spring like holland michigan so we appreciate all the volunteers and everybody that's preparing in the tulip time in their new office it's wonderful if you get a chance to go it's right next behind readers world there go down the beautiful little brick path and it's all in glass it's beautiful to look time headquarters now so that's a great start for them too so a great things happening now we need communications from council members i think there are some boards and commissions people like well yes there you must be  i would like to make a motion to appoint brooke anderson to the bone in its lead to the board of appeals for her first term said term expiring june thirtieth the twenty twenty also to appoint daniel sorich to the board of appeals for a partial term said term expiring june thirtieth of twenty nineteen but that in  and to motion resolutions from council members anyone have anything now and then we need to go to a motion for the proposed pilot program that is now becoming citywide and the announcement of a public hearing as well do you want to wear that for i bet j would like to place that ok that the prior action placed on the agenda for first reading now you've got to decide whether to accept  it for a straight answer the motion would be to accept it for first reading and to direct the city clerk to notice out a public hearing on the ordinance says as ben did for a while of whatever date you choose but a protein be in the next business motion passes five three thank you sir now we need one more motion motion to adjourn move back to three supported by peters thank you for tuning in or listening or coming in