each be responsible for keeping track of your own time the clerk will alert the last twenty minutes or so you may see are which are not the lower court decision while the decision was wrong in several significant ways the question for this court is fundamentally are the commission's findings of fact  certificate was simply a reasonable in other words the commission found that the applicants proposed project is what needs to be implies the plan has the projections and in the business case that a presence as well  public use this turns on the question of whether rocco will offer his friend's mission facilities for use by the public without undue discrimination the commission found the answer to this is yes and  should not substitute its judgment for that of the commission and this regrettably what happened in the public court it's well established that the commission's decision is are needed only supported by substantial evidence which and the rule that we would hope you would extract from this these cases and it's the right rule is that the most significant factor is whether you did so only holds itself out as a to get a for the war and the case is that if we didn't get a certificate and the subject stay quiet regulation we're going through six counts we have to get so only for land use or whatever their particular local my question is and maybe even mr price or mr reagan can take a stab at it some would certainly say that this project seems of this point to be highly speculative and filled with many uncertainties in contingencies  and my specific question is does if we believe that to be the case that there is uncertainty speculation contingencies does they had entered into or calculus on whether or not  him that you can't fill this line in correspondingly don't raise the money to build it you can't forsee i still haven't addressed justice birth question and but what i just said goes to that of public until the first is whether rock island line can said or public use of the statute requires and the second is whether rock allan can claim to own control operate or manage property used or to be used to both questions is no but before talking about each i think it's worth taking a step back and reflecting on the nature of public until the regulation in illinois for a moment public utilities have special powers under the law that set them the power comes with responsibilities and one responsibilities an obligation to devote your property to public use rather than just to maximize your own problems now rock island didn't need to be a public utility to  transmission line in the way they didn't need to be but they chose to try to become one and the reason we said that has a lot to do with you bill of the two if not actually condemn property at least use the the prospect of eminent domain for public use and there are three points i'd like to make about this the first is that this is an issue of law that should be decided novo by the sport of you heard the i c c counsel talk about substantial evidence and so forth but the facts here are undisputed there's no without discrimination and without delay rather than permission according to the company's own wishes and that is from the highland dairy case and it's also requested in the current statutory language of a that one of the one the public utilities  select which of the auction bitterest we're going to do business with well that's that's a private company decided to do business with based on its own wishes its own priorities its own profit maximizing interests and that's inconsistent with what a public utility do customers may then resell power to the general public but that is not sufficient to establish public use either in the mississippi river case if you look at the box the city river was on the twenty industrial customers but it was also selling to twenty three wholesale gas and a two to two  would then resell gas to the general public and the fact that it was doing that was not sufficient to make it a public utility because the question is who is the public with buying from you and are you willing to sell to a number of the public  context it's the same sanctuary worse as the constitutional text and that shouldn't be surprising given the mostly fish between what a public utility can do in terms of exercising in a domain and in cases like the southwest illinois development authority case in two thousand what we're going to do is we have to find him out of the past and we're going to have an option and we're going to write that order up residence based on certain criteria that serve our purposes and we're going to pick the ones who win and the ones who win  who don't have to live in the dark i mean that would be outrageous and completely inconsistent with what the public utilities obligations are but that is the essential position they're taking about what public use leaves and i don't think the word should head down the road of accepting that notion of presented that companies not believe the companies that want to use the pipeline were allowed to use the pipeline so there was no question in that case that the pipeline was persian service to anyone who wanted to use it in this case again the contra purpose of all rates you may select the people who promote your profit maximizing interests little was different not discrimination in illinois means you can't distinguish between two customers who are of the same type you can't say i'm going to give capacity that's one way of handling it and the second with handling it is that you immediately make a commitment to expand your wire your capacity so that you can actually serve up when he needs it and i think in connection with this iraq alan has never said that that if we have any left overs will serve the general public without and i just want to point out that that is not that is not sufficient to have public until the status to say well our goal is to sell out through the folks that we s control operate a managed property use were to be used in connection with electricity transmission justice thomas just about uncertainties and i think this is an important point rock island to be a public balance various interests or the interests of the public at large the interests of landowners who are going to be under a cloud of uncertainty until a project goes forward doesn't go forward and the interests of private developers and that balance is struc century said that an entity that now or hereafter may own property use or to be and the may so there was a possibility that it would be used in such a in a in a particular way well the general assembly removed that may it eliminated to what they call the market test of transmission customers contracting for sufficient service in other words until rockefeller could be sure that it would make a sufficient profit from this to make it worth going forward and that is not the way a public until it in his public utility responds to a proposed project is a tad the issue here is that you need to be a push project that makes a commitment to go forward and that's what rock island has always refused to do well to finish what i started and leave time for my co counsel the public utilities have special powers buses special obligations that suck them apart from ordinary businesses and they don't get to choose their customers that's i think the bottom line theme that that i like t mention and the other interviewers down got it at the end of the day we have to win something here for me if i understood mr price correctly he said the car discrimination under illinois law may be different than under the federal energy