good afternoon ladies and gentlemen the committee on veterans affairs subcommittee on economic opportunity hearing on pending legislation will come to order i would like to call to the attention of the subcommittee the fact that the honorable john carter of texas i was asked to submit a written statement for the hearing record on behalf of his constituent mrs rebecca no appointer if there's no objection i ask for unanimous consent that her statement be entered for the record hearing no objection so entered today we have eight bills before us that seek to authorize the v a to make a grant to the united states a limpet committee to provide and develop activities for service members and veterans with physical disabilities allow military service members to terminate certain contracts when called to active duty service or order to change permanent duties signed meant require the v to develop an d o d to distribute a compact disc of benefits information to service members preparing to depart from the military amend the service member civil relief act to allow military spouse to claim the same state as a service member in regards to state and taxes and voter registration and reauthorize the servicemembers occupational conversion and training act of one thousand nine hundred two some of you might recall that on february thirteenth of this year we conducted a hearing on expiring programs in this hearing received recommendations on ways to improve on the programs and expand on veterans rights one such recommendation came from mr matthew tully of tele and wrinkly l l c who specializes in law under the uniform services employment and reemployment rights act also known as the sara kelly brought up an example of how a service member who had sought injunctive relief from his employer but the court denied his request mr tell you recommended that the subcommittee consider amending usera to allow service members such as the one who is cited to ensure equitable relief is available to you sara victims when the courts decide it's appropriate i share the concerns expressed by mr tele and recently introduced h r sixty two twenty five injunctive relief for veterans act of two thousand and eight this bill i'm entitled thirty eight by changing may to shall and it is our expectation that more courts will use this remedy when deemed appropriate that equitable relief is warranted this legislation is a step in the right direction to providing greater protections and safeguards to those you have answered the call to duty second bill that i recently introduced as h r sixty two twenty four the pilot college work study programs for veterans act of two thousand and eight this bill contains similar language that i propose in h r fifty six eighty four the veterans education improvement act of two thousand and eight which would improve an existing educational entitlements for veterans h r sixty two twenty four would direct the secretary of the department of veterans affairs to conduct a five year pilot project to expand on existing work study activities for veterans currently veterans who qualify for work study would be limited to working on v a related work my bill would allow those veterans the option of working in academic departments and student services this change would put them at par with students who qualify for a work study privet position under programs not administered by the v a furthermore this bill would conform to existing pay go rules by funding this pilot program from discretionary appropriations i look forward to working with ranking member both men and other members of the subcommittee to discussing these two legislative proposals and those being considered today's including h r sixty two twenty one a bill that will close a possible loophole in the eyes disabled veterans business contracting and acquisition programs this is something that we've introduced together and again i appreciate better suited to today's job market this is a worthy goal and i support it and commend our colleague from vermont for bringing this issue before us there are several ways to offer retrying and i would like to blore madam chair and with mr welch whether or not it would be more effective to reauthorize mark to take several smart concepts and use them to expand existing on the job training apprenticeship programs for recently discharged veterans and those are past their eligibility for g i benefits given the current awareness of education and training for veterans we may have an opportunity here to put more veterans into good jobs i know that you share those goals madam chair and i look forward to work with you and mr welch and our colleagues on the committee to make that happen i yield back thank you mr both men i'd like to welcome our pallas testifying before the subcommittee today joining us as our full committee chairman the honorable mr bob filner of california the honorable of the last grain of california the honorable dennis cardoza also of california the honorable john carter of texas and the like to live in california o the texas california rivalry here and the honorable peter welch of vermont one of the smaller less populated states well represented here on the subcommittee all of your full written statements will be made part of the hearing record and we welcome all of you to the subcommittee and thank you for the bills that you've introduced that we're considering today chairman filner you're recognized thank you madam chair and i certainly thank you in your ranking member mr bozeman for the leadership you have shown over the last year and a half we've been an incredibly productive incisive subcommittee and we preach hate everything that you guys have done and i'd like to spend just been a few minutes on h r forty two fifty five the united states a program act of two thousand and seven for many service members and veterans who have been severely injured from service to our country their rehabilitation can be a disheartening experience many become concerned about having the same quality of life if that they had prior to their injuries programs administered by the us olympic committee the u s o c paralympic military program can enhance and improve the quality of life for these men and women by introducing them to an active lifestyle while they heal from their wounds today the  o c programs have been providing support for severely injured military service members and veterans since two thousand and three introducing them to adaptive sports techniques sport techniques these opportunities will enable our veterans to face their new physical realit continue living an active lifestyle through adaptive sports we know there that there's a growing population of veterans who have survived serious injuries that would benefit from the good work being done by the u s o c and that's why i've introduced this bill to support our heroic men and women as they transition through this very difficult phase in their lives the bill would authorize the secretary of veterans affairs to make a grant to the u s olympic committee to provide paralympic instruction competitive activities and training program development activities for service members and veterans with physical disabilities the purpose of the program is to enhance the rehab bill of patient and quality of life currently of current severely injured service members and veterans and to reduce the chance of secondary medical conditions up to now more than twelve hundred injured veterans have been introduced to paralympic sports as a result of these training programs but much more needs to be done in order to continue to provide this dynamic rehabilitative environment the sense of well being the sense of they have a future when they get involved in these kind of activities i mean it's one of those programs we visit that so move us i know move us to tears sometime to see how these men with and have overcome such injuries and as we know this war has produced a lot of very serious injuries because we know how to not only keep them alive on the battlefield but evacuate them quickly and get really superior help  well being then this program and i hope that we in the veterans administration can aid the u s olympic committee in this and i think you're going to hear more about that in later testimony but they do incredible job and when you had the opportunity to in earlier hearings before the subcommittee to hear from some of those who have benefited from these important programs and we thank you for introducing this important bill this lofgren thank you for being here at the subcommittee you're no recognized thank you so much chairwoman herseth sandlin and ranking member bosman i appreciate the opportunity to testify and behalf of the bill i've introduced the service members telecom contract relief act  this a constituent call first alerted me to this problem where service members are have been called up or dispatched to a different part of the country and they have difficulty dealing with their cell phone contract oftentimes we enter into multi year contracts when we get our phones and although many service providers have expressed policies that would allow active duty military to terminate sometimes those policies are overlooked and not every single provider has them so this bill would provide certainty it would allow members of the armed services to suspend or terminate a contract for telecommunications services when those services  no use to them because of their called active duty or an in depth involuntary extension of the period of military service or deployment overseas to locations where the services are not available you know when when to a soldier's called up the last thing they need to be worried about is their cable bill and as one mother called and told me with her son in iraq she said her son is over there risking his neck he shouldn't have to deal with a cell phone company  so i don't mean to suggest that most cell phone companies have been abusive in that in fact telecom providers have reached out to my office offering helpful suggestions for potential changes that would harmonize the bill as introduced with the communications act and have been very collaborative and i do appreciate this however i think having some certainty in this area would be important i want to clarify that the bill is narrower than age or thirty to ninety eight introduced by mr murphy of pennsylvania but i support his bill in fact i'm a co sponsor of his bill so this would be in compas that if the committee moves that bill or this is a unique issue we could move this bill silicon valley i guess is a ground zero for high tech and it's something that has caught my attention i think would be another thing we can do for our our brave men and women who are doing so much for us so i appreciate the opportunity to testify and the leadership of all of you in making sure we do the right thing for these brave americans thank you congressman's off going we appreciate that you worked with the telecom companies and other providers and appreciate your support mr murphy's bill is well we will be moving to a markup next week and be looking at different bills for consideration and look forward to hearing some of the thoughts of others that are testifying today on your bill in the hopes that we can  integrate some of the provisions of yours into a broader bill given that we've already had a hearing on mr murphy says well so we thank you for working in such a collaborative way with our colleagues and with those in the industry mr cardoza welcome to the subcommittee you now recognized thank appreciate you inviting me here today to testify on an issue that i'm sure you will agree will make life just a little bit easier for our nation's veterans madam chair i have a veterans advisory committee that i meet with regularly in my district and in these meetings veterans time and time again have told me that veterans the rank and file veterans especially are simply unaware of the benefits benefits that they are eligible for in several instances veterans have told me that upon being discharged and returning to the united states they must sit through a transitional process meeting wait for second in several instances veterans have told me that upon being discharged and returning to the u s they must sit through a transitional process meeting explaining some of their benefit programs immediately upon exiting the plane but i'm sure i'm sure you will agree that after fighting for our country and being away from loved ones for months at a time the last thing our troops have on their mind is their benefits they want to see and hug their family and their children they're tired from exhausting flight their longing to see their families waiting just beyond the gate yet this process meeting may be the only time that some veterans hear about their benefits more often than not this is a missed opportunity others have told me that in their briefings with the v a representative they only have five minutes with a dozen other veterans awaiting their five minute briefing as well the veterans receive incomplete information they are handed few pamphlets they oftentimes feel rushed and they aren't able to ask questions that they may have thought of right after they leave the meeting because of time constraints i respectfully ask the subcommittee to consider for a moment how in the world anyone can explain all the available benefits to which a veteran is entitled in five minutes let alone answer potential questions madam chair my bill h r twenty seven twenty one is quite simple it would require the secretary of the v a to issue a comprehensive cd rom to returning veterans that clearly explain the benefits to which they are entitled the cd would inform returning veterans and their families in plain english about how to access navigate the v a so that they know about all the benefits they have earned and how to go about receiving them this would provide a one stop source for veterans where they can simply pop in a cd into their computer wherever they wish to look up the information so no benefits slip through the bureaucratic cracks i understand that v a currently outlined some of the information on their websites or  information has not comprehensive however my bill requires full complete and updated information to be provided on a v a website as well however cd in my opinion is still necessary and would benefit districts like mine with larger earlier areas where access the internet may not always be reliable or in some cases even available this bill only fixes the process not the symptoms and is just one small step in the right direction to ensure our veterans who served so honorably receive the benefits they have earned but i believe that if we fix the broken informational process we are going a long way toward solving some of the benefit problems giving the troops the informational tools they need to ensure that they're actually receiving their welds benefits is the least we can do on their behalf o grateful nation thank you again for allowing me to be here and give testimony on behalf of the bill thank you mr cardoza you may be interested to know that mr both men and i recently attended a field hearing with our colleague mr donnelly in indiana in which we realized there as we did in other parts of the country and other testimony we've taken that people are falling through the cracks and getting access to information about their benefits whether they're reservists who are in smaller detachments that are now being deployed whether it's full units in the national guard in the different states and how they've handled the mobilization and certainly those that are going through the transition assistance program which is not mandatory at our active duty bases around the country so we appreciate we things to great idea we appreciate the bill and you bring forward and away as you said a step forward in the right direction of sharing information a way that it's reliable that will allow service members and their family members to go back with reliable information important to our veterans our service members and i want to thank you for all of you do for our veterans deserve as members i'm pleased to serve on the the milk on veterans affairs appropriations subcommittee we work on many of the same issues and i'm proud to work with you on we meet with me in the office here in d c say that for scenario because your husband had chosen fort hood texas as his residence the the good under the server member civil relief act and they had been transferred to the pentagon he was leave a major but she in turn could not claim for her as a residency and she had a business both in just did business and taxes and yet she was paying taxes in virginia she had to register to vote in virginia and voted for a different congressman she had to get a new driver's license and other words she was not given the same courtesy of claiming the residency of the family's choice that her h that he was given that we had given to them as a member of the service this seemed to me to not be a fair thing to happen she pointed out that she actually made more income than her major soldier did but they honored the the army and they were proud to be part of it is seems to me it seems to me that this is something that we ought to be able to fix and i think it is i think it will provide relief remember we say now and i know this is said fort hood all the time we recruit a soldier but we were  family and the vast majority of our servicemen and women today that are in our military service are married many with children and so we are now you married military and we need to provide the relief to the spouses that we give to the soldier and that is that she could should she or he should be able to choose the residency that her spouse his or her spouse shows as their as they so the family has the same residency they get their same services from the same through rational history they vote for the saying congress matters congresswoman and they have a relationship to where they choose to call home we can do this with this bill this will allow a wife to choose that place where her husband shows it helps with land titles and helps with titles to vehicles if there's a divorce those are very important that there should be a divorce in the family it helps with  registration it helps with vehicle registration and most of all it helps with income taxes vs other taxes in the states where that they have chosen to be resident this has no effect whatsoever on the rev is revenue neutral for the united states government but it is important to the revenue of the families of our soldiers sailors airmen and marines and i and i would respectfully request that this is a simple matter that will make a major difference in the last of these folks the average loss that every spouse lose makes all the move is somewhere between fifty five hundred and seven thousand seventy two hundred i believe it is dollars every every time they make a move almost ninety percent of our spouses work it's critical we give the same relief to the spouse that we give to the soldier and i would hope that you would support this this and this bill so that we can make this family united in the but i certainly agree with you that in light of whether it's the example you provided in some of the temporary assignments to people here in the pentagon but also the other moves that we know our military families make on such a frequent basis that we should be looking to simplify their lives in those transitions not the complexity of the jurisdictional issues that they face when spouses can't claim the same benefits as it relates to residency so we appreciate your testimony and sharing with us your constituents experience your concern and all of the other meeting the evidence that ms porter moved to committee thank you very much mr welch we have pending votes as you know but i think we have time to wrap up our first panel with your testimony we are glad you're here today and your recognized really appreciate it chairwoman hearses sandlin and ranking member bozeman committee we're all grateful to you in congress who you've been doing some all of us know we need to do and that's respect the service of our soldiers i'm here to testify on behalf of reauthorization of the servicemembers occupational conversion and training act and as you know that had been authorized in the one nine hundred ninety s it was to assist veterans returning home to get employment after their military careers and  it worked and expired and the question is will we reauthorize it what i think is so tremendous about this program is that it focuses on soldiers in their future because when they come back there's an enormous amount of dislocation as you know sometimes soldiers have very bad injuries they've got to contend with that and this congress with your leadership has paid a lot of attention to increasing veteran benefits particularly in the area of health care because the cost of the war has to include the cost of caring for the warrior but what soldiers want is what any other american ones and that is hope it's about getting on with the future and that's about having a job where you can feel good about showing up for work where you can pay your bills and take care of your family be a provider and what this does is recognize that these employment based programs have to be a very important component of making our soldiers have them get integrated back into into  life it was a practical program in that it worked with employers who are willing to work with veterans by reimbursing them for an eighteen month period that would allow workers to get the skills they needed to do sometimes retraining some job programming  so it's it's a practical in proven program that helps our soldiers get back into normal life in most of us normal life includes the job that we we really value so you know better than i all the compelling reasons to do what we can for our soldiers this is a program that is relatively inexpensive proven to be effective talks about the future and gives soldiers an opportunity to develop their skills in civilian life i thank you very much for the opportunity to be here before you and again applaud you for the tremendous work you've done on a bipartisan basis to help us meet our commitment to our soldiers thank you thank you mr welch for introducing this bill you're right about the proven effectiveness of the program and we look forward to working with you to ensure reauthorization with perhaps you know looking forward and seeing if there might be some changes that might be necessary i know that mr bozeman i want to visit with you as we head down to votes perhaps or now since we have a little bit of time about some of his thoughts about the reauthorization act madam chair again i'm very i appreciate you bringing this for i think it's something that we need to do i think something that we're committed to doing what we'd like to do is work with the and sure maybe have some ideas you know kind of tweaking things so i would be delighted if you know peter king had very similar legislation in another bill and has been a leader in congress as well so i'd be delighted to always look his or do you are going to wait and hopefully get this thing great thank you and thank you for your commitment to our nation service members and  resume the subcommittee hearing after the series about guys go ahead and get started i appreciate you all bearing with us the only thing that we have to do here is vote and that's one thing that we can't put off so let's go ahead and get the  second panel ranking member and thank you for allowing us to be here again i'm really going to update you a little bit on what we've been doing with the paralympic military program as you and the committee know the paralympic movement exist today because of injured veterans following world war two using sport as rehabilitation u s o c today spends more than twelve million dollars annually on paralympic programs all of these vines of course have been from private sources paralympic organizations throughout the u s spent an additional thirty million dollars at the local level to provide sports and physical activity programs for persons with physical disabilities including veterans in injured military personnel i'd like to add a little a little bit looking at some of the testimony from some of our the partner organizations that we work with i just want to clarify and maybe even assist some of their testimony what we do is not competition or just competition the priority focus of the paralympic movement to send a team to the games but ninety five percent of the participants  participate in community based paralympic programs will never go to the paralympic games our focus at the u s o c with our partners is to provide physical activity as part of rehabilitation for persons with physical disabilities and the majority  population that we touch on a daily basis will never ever see the paralympic games let me give you a couple examples of that veteran courtney clements who currently resides in chula vista calif calif was injured in mentor and i have to do this university of arkansas graduate john register u s o c launched a pilot program at fort lewis washington last week focused on providing programming and physical activity support to more than seven hundred individuals in warrior transition unit at fort lewis in collaboration with mesa parks and rec arizona disabled sports and more than eighty five athletes participated in paralympic track and field events last week in tempe arizona including fifteen injured veterans we also have developed and are implementing community sports programs that are recreational in nature supporting the facilities in augusta tampa richmond minneapolis san diego palo alto birmingham chicago availability of community based programs for injured military personnel and veterans to participate in upon their return home and that's a major concern of ours there are a lot of great events that are partners on an that people come to for a week and participate in our biggest cern in the thrust of everything we're doing and the resources that are forty to fifty five would provide for veterans is to make sure that their programs existing in their communities when they go home that's the major emphasis to what we're trying to develop ensuring that community programs and paralympic mentors are available to veterans upon returning home and those programs are not at the a facility as i'm going to read you a direct quote from a paralympic mentor  family or friends to play basketball is the hospital our programs are focused on creating programs in the community and we see ourselves as an extension of the department of veteran affairs and other entities the department of defense to support injured military personnel with community programs when i say we it's not just the u s olympic committee it's organizations like parks and rec association which has six thousand programs and communities all over the united states it's organizations like the da be in the p v a that we collectively will be efficient from a cost perspective and most importantly more effective in reaching more people i thank you for the opportunity to speak in front of you today and available for any questions that you may have  invoked at this panel let me start by saying that after twenty years in washington i still consider russellville arkansas home with my family and friends there my name is bobby frank and i serve as executive vice president of i the wireless association we are proud to count among our vast membership wireless carriers equipment manufacturers and applications developers that collectively provide amazingly innovative products and services that keep americans connected in their day to day needs let me first make one point very clear c g i is wireless carriers already allow members of the u s armed forces facing military deployment to terminate a contract based wireless service without penalty additionally many of our carriers have taken steps to create special military programs that allow service members to suspend service so they may retain their phone numbers upon their return while c t a and our highly competitive industry generally oppose government mandates and an f to combat  reports of contract problems with the point service members c g i his board of directors charged us to actively support federal legislation allowing our service members to terminate wireless contracts without penalty when they are deployed abroad or to a location that does not support the service from that particular carrier we do have three suggestions for the legislation to improve h r thirty seven eighty six first the bill should be amended to make sure the definitions of covered services conform to the definitions in the communications act this will hopefully eliminate any potential confusion about what is or is not covered by the legislation second we propose a clarification of the bill's provisions on proration to better reflect the way that wireless service is both purchased and used by accommodating the way our billing systems work  will help keep the cost of wireless service continuing to decline for all users thirdly we believe any fines should be kept at no more than ten thousand dollars and that such penalties should be  in cases where there is a knowing and i repeated violation of the law these suggestions are consistent with the recommendations we offered this subcommittee at your april hearing on congressman patrick murphy bill h r thirty two ninety eight we are pleased to report that congressman murphy has incorporated our suggestions into a revised version of his legislation we are also happy to report and i think congresswoman lofgren mentioned on the earlier panel that we've been working closely with both her and her staff and hope to achieve the same outcome with respect to the bill before the committee today h r thirty seven eighty six final let me just share that the wireless industry he recognizes the sacrifice and dedication of the members of our u s armed forces and we are pleased to work toward enactment of appropriate legislation to benefit servicemen and servicewomen facing military deployment in fact c g i and its member companies are hopeful that this committee as well as this congress can address this legislation just as soon as possible i thank you for this opportunity alec ford any questions you may have thank you very address that how many current partners do you have that help provide ongoing programs at the community level our focus is to have seventy five paralympic sport clubs created by the end of this year where the focus in those communities is participation it's participation in physical activity we're working with the national recreation parks association we're working with paralympic organizations we have more than forty three signed up are ready we'll be in seventy five communities by the end of this year but the absolute emphasis you don't get to elite paralympic sport just by just by joining a participation club it's very important we understand that research shows physical activity for persons with physical disabilities does some very important things like reduce stress reduce depression re self esteem things very important to veterans coming home from a very difficult environment we're very focused on creating participation programs and this is the most important piece participation programs at the community level that they can go to every day not or not drive eight hours to go participate in a physical activity with their friends and family but in their backyard in their community that they go home to that's our primary focus in the majority of those programs or in the community so we see ourselves very strongly participating in programs is some people are going to have more athletic talent than others very much aware of that because i never had the opportunity to make an olympic team but we have six veterans right now that will serve veterans of the iraq or afghanistan campaign that will represent this country again our team sizes about two hundred five but ninety percent of the population that we deal with on a daily basis a limp or paralympic in terms of athletes will never participate in the olympic and paralympic games the majority the programs at the community level are participatory and noted in the da be comments to exclude the word competitive our programs at the community level our participation in focused on physical activity only a very few raise up to that level of being able to represent this country at the olympics or but when they do it's a great story for this country it's great to hear about a veteran like courtney clements succeed not only in participation in sports but also in employment in education forty to fifty five  what would be the impact on your organization when it when i talk about our organization in our programs i'm talking about collaboration with organizations like the paralympic organizations around the country those dollars would specifically be focused on veterans to support develop and train which is extremely cost efficient i mean you think about talk with congressman sandlin about this rural community in south dakota got to go in and develop a program would not make a fission sense from a cost perspective or participation perspective it if it was for one veteran what if we can go train a parks and rec in a rural area to support that better and they already have existing programming they have existing buildings what we're doing is providing the training and the ongoing technical assistance to allow communities all over the country to expand program focused on veterans we could significantly increase the number of people participating in physical activity on a daily basis and there's a great need in that country for that is there anything we can do to help  recently injured veteran sir everything you have been doing has been outstanding and our role as been in collaboration with numerous other organizations the greatest need right now is there's a great lack of programming around the country there's a lot of great events but events last a week and then somebody goes home and what we want to make sure and we see this all the time you you're familiar with our paralympic military sport can people come to the olympic training center and have the greatest week of their life fifty or one hundred people what we're most concerned about is one hundred people go home to their hundred communities around this country is there a program there for them to participate in because it's our understanding and yours more so that's when bad things start happen when you get back to your home community and the resources of the programming isn't there at the local level to immediately integrate you that's our primary focus with what we're trying to do with the paralympic military program and h r forty two fifty five would allow matching dollars to support the dollars we and other organizations are investing men and women you know are they're concentrating on something else concentrating on a go i think it really does play an important part of the healing process and then again something you know that can be a lifelong thing that they can pursue well i know employment's important for veterans that the people that are driving this program for us are veterans very good thank you very much mr franklin how does the wireless industry inform not only their employees but the service members about the policy to not charge cancellation fees when the service members deployed if congress made this policy in the law do you believe this will reduce the instance or we have the same problems we have now i do believe that this will help reduce i think the fact that congress is taking up this legislation and addressing it will go a long ways to help us make sure that all service members know that the policies and in the case of the bill passes the law will state that this is what should happen we do a lot our companies do a lot of training of their customer service employees but when you have two hundred sixty million subscribers and tens of thousands of customer service reps i'm not here to say mistakes don't happen but i think that with the policies in place and with congress paying attention to this it is my hope that all service members recognize this availability for good are you aware of any the last couple years with this type of thing we have and verified reports we have certainly heard but have not been able to verify the fact that some service members have had difficulty getting out of their contracts but it's certainly as i said before it's not the policy of the companies and as i said in response to your first question i think the fact that you all are looking at this and helping publicize the fact that these policies are exists for most of the carriers in this country that it will certainly help the service members currently how long does a service member how long are they able to reserve their phone number and is that policy is it adequate or does that need to be extended or i think i'd like to get back on the technical answer to this because it has to do with how long a company can pool a number that's not being used in service so there are specific rules that our companies must follow the f c c has the north american numbering administrator has that we must follow so i'd like to get back to the committee on the answer to that to make sure  i do know and i'm proud that many of our member companies have on their own an issue a good service member policies to allow them to suspend the question is for how long and when it comes to how long we can suspend our hands may be tied by another agency for good i'm going to turn things over to mr hall they do want to thank you and the committee probably will have a couple more questions in writing that we'd like but i do want to thank you for your openness and willingness to you know to work with us on this to make sure that these men and women as they are deployed you know i've got enough to hassle with and we all agree with this i know that you agree with this and  the people that are you know out in the field you know working starving the veterans agree that they've got enough hassle without dealing with this so thank you very much absolutely you mr bozeman and i regret missing your testimony but maybe to ask you a couple questions anyway i didn't have the opportunity to read it and i'll just briefly ask  and forgive me if these questions have already been asked mr frank franklin which bills you think would better serve our service members the law current bill or the murphy bill we  support of both bills assuming that the suggestions on how to improve both both bills are taken and we're really agnostic to both of those bills we assume that you all will need to make that decision i know that the  madam chairman herseth sandlin mentioned in her opening statement that there might be a way to pull those bills together and we would be supportive of either or both however you would like to do it assuming that the suggestions we made were incorporated and how long does it take how long a time lapses when a service member requests to terminate a contract before that contract is actually terminated i think that in most cases it can be done very quickly again each each company has in some cases multiple billing systems and it could technically be a difference of whether what part of the country you live in depending on what billing system that that company is using to answer with great specificity but the policy of the industry and of the companies is that once they receive the orders or copy of the orders from the servicemen and women showing that they're being deployed or moving to an area that doesn't have service by that particular company then the policy is for them to terminate that contract mr franklin how many of the telecoms have international service to your knowledge are you estimate well international service plans are offered by many of the companies but that doesn't necessarily mean that they have the facilities in another country like ours in iraq for instance correct or afghanistan correct even more difficult but they may have partnerships with wireless carriers internationally in fact they do many of them do offer a national plans perhaps not in every part of the world where the servicemen and women are and that's why we do have these policies to let them out of the contract and i assume that there's work or discussion going on about changing the contract or exchanging it for one that would allow such locations that service exists but allow the service member to transfer their remainder of their contract to one that covers that area and allows communication with home in the case of transferring their contract to another provider i'm not sure that would work but certainly if they want to take up service with a u s provider that does have a relationship or service with somebody that provides service where they're being deployed that option exists absolutely the impact is on the movement not so much are going to sation we we have implemented a strategy to provide programming for veterans and communities all over the united states in the communities that return home to and we're doing that in partnership with numerous organizations like the national recreation and parks association paralympic organizations the p v a and others so the impact would be on increasing significantly the ability to reach more better and in their home very cost efficient programming because all the programs i just mentioned are investing their own resources to provide that support to veterans right now in america just to give you an example of physical disability twenty one million americans have a physical disability in the united states less than ten percent of them participate in daily physical activity our goal with h r forty two fifty five is to increase significantly the number of veterans that return home and can participate in daily community programs in their local community can the u s o c military paralympic program survive without federal assistance we've survived and with private investment and with our partnerships with those organizations we can grow exponentially by having an investment to match the investment of all the organizations we're working with we can reach more veterans and that's the bottom line but yes we will survive we'll continue on we're moving on with or without any federal support but my point to you is that with an investment to match the private investment that already exist estimated more than forty two to sports programs that that's where you get your efficiency by we've identified communities that already have programs we've also identified numerous communities that don't the role is to provide training and technical assistance and an example at a rural area to create a specific program in a rural area is not efficient to work in collaboration with the parks and rec that already has buildings and staff and provide them the equipment and the expertise to serve that maybe one veteran in a rural area is very efficient and that's our focus with what we're trying to do working with established programs today as well as identifying markets that don't have an i'll give you an example in colorado springs colorado there is not a comprehensive program to serve injured military personnel or veterans will have want to stablish with the city of laura springs by the end of this year i don't have any questions again i thank you for being here the we were just talking the only frustration is that you know we've got these guys gone some of them are playing golf and just the next and my frustration is going out and playing with them and then just getting but that's good sir i mean both of the obviously that's a great story for us to tell america and that's an important part of what we do not just for veterans but for all americans to to say that i can come back from iraq like courtney clemens did i can go back to school i can i can pursue a new career and i can be involved in physical activity which as we talked about earlier he can run a little bit faster than i can well thank you very much for the work that you do and and for your advice and counsel to this committee and this panel is now excused thank you and have a wonderful afternoon we now invite panel three of the witness table participating on our third panel is mr kerry baker associate national legislative director of disabled american veterans mr joseph sharp deputy director of national economic commission for the american legion mr richard daley associate legislation director for the paralyzed veterans of america devi to present this testimony on various bills before the subcommittee today thirty seven eighty six sixty seventy and sixty two twenty four are all outside the scope of d e v s mission we nonetheless have no format that explains benefits for which veterans are eligible under the last ministry by the secretary this legislation would improve services and is therefore deserving of d v support the information contained on such a disc should be all inclusive in regards to v a benefits and military benefits considering the lack of effect of outreach in relation to older groups of veterans congress should consider whether this type of information should be disseminated to older groups in addition to just charging members of the d b presented testimony in the house but rooms affairs subcommittee on disability assistance and memorial affairs on may twenty second two thousand and eight were guarding the issue of outreach in that hearing the d e v outlined serious flaws in outreach efforts in relation to older groups of veterans severely disabled veterans and adaptive alpine and nordic skiing and provide an introduction to other adaptive activities and sports the winter sports clinic provides profoundly disabled veterans opportunities for self development and  challenge participants have an opportunity to develop sports skills and take part in a variety of workshops this event involved efforts in rehabilitation adaptive sports should be noted that the winter sports clinic  the purely for rehabilitative purposes and is in no way competitive in nature as written has the potential to change that something that both oppose many disabled veterans that participate in the winter sports clinic have never before attempted such sports activities bringing a competitive atmosphere into that clinic we believe would do more harm than good this bill is obviously well intended and therefore d v does not wish to stand in its way however we also cannot allow unintended consequences to occur that may jeopardize the two decades of success in helping to rehabilitate severely disabled veterans that the winter sports clinic has achieved for rather than opposing this legislation to be amended to exclude competitive contract to comply with the contracting goals and preferences for small business concerns owned or controlled by veterans supports this legislation h r sixty two twenty five would amend the law relating to equable relief with respect to a state or private employer this legislation could have direct effect on service connected disabled veterans because many obtain employment due to their service connected disability those same individuals have enforceable rights of employment or reemployment when those rights are violated the victims of such a violation should not be subject to the whims of discretion the courts some courts may choose to abuse the d v s therefore supports this legislation r sixty to seventy two would authorize discretionary appropriations to carry out the service members occupational conversion and training act of one thousand nine hundred two under this law the secretary of defense is required to carry out a program to assist eligible persons in taining employment through participation in programs of significant training for employment and stable and permanent positions service member separated in voluntarily who have service related disability rated at thirty percent or more are among those affected therefore the d e v supports this bill as chairman and members of the subcommittee i appreciate this opportunity to share the views of the american legion on a couple of benefits related legislative initiatives brought before us today the first being h r sixty to seventy two reauthorization act of two thousand and eight year over two hundred fifty thousand service members are discharged from the armed services these former service personnel are actively seeking either employment with the  continuation of formal of occasional education smocked zero was developed as a transitional two designed to provide job training and employment to eligible veterans discharged after august one thousand nine hundred ninety when created smocked was the only federal job training program available strictly for veterans and the only federal job training program specifically designed for the use by state veterans employment personnel to assist veterans with various to employment smocked is unique job earning program because it is successful it has successfully returned veterans to the civilian work force them american legion strongly endorses this bill the other bill they were very concerned with this h r sixty two twenty one that are in own small business protection and clarification act the american legion to use small businesses as the engine that keeps the american economy on track it is the driving force behind america's past economic growth and will continue to be the major factor as we move forward into the twenty first century the american legion supported legislation in the past that sought to add service connected disabled veterans to the list so specified small business categories receiving three percent set aside despite an act in the public law one o six that is fifty the better an entrepreneurship and small business about women act of  intended to assist the in reaching those new goals by ensuring that every contract up be considered for a veteran service disable on company mr chairman this concludes my testimony i appreciate the opportunity to present the american legion's views on this important timely topic and i welcome any question you may have to thank you thank you very much mr sharp and we will get back to questions after the other witnesses mr daly you are not recognized province representative all ranking member bozeman like to thank you for the opportunity to share our views on the proposed legislation written comments are submitted for the record i will limit my remarks to the time limited to starting with the written comments verbal has changed from the written comments submitted is because  well we have previously mentioned cern's about h r forty two fifty five in recent days we've had the opportunity to talk with different committees dav as well as with mr you from the paralympics we see this potential expanding relationship between the v a and the u s o c as an opportunity to benefit disabled veterans furthermore we look forward to working with paralympics to address our concerns about the impact of this new relationship on longstanding partnerships that we and other veterans service organizations had developed with the v a to support sports and recreation programs for disabled veterans we are encouraged that satisfactory solutions to our concerns may be achieved r six to two for the pilot college work study programs far veterans act as we stated in testimony on similar legislation earlier this year p v a supports the provisions of h r six to two for the pilot college work study programs act this legislation would create a five year pilot program for on campus work study positions that may include would work in academic departments such as tutoring research assistants teaching assistants leva systems and other services including financial aid and share admission just about any position that's available on the campus will be included in this program we believe that the work study program can be very beneficial for many students and training act program our program similar to that in the hearing last october smocked it was established during the downsizing of the military for veterans discharge after august a person  ninety this program was a cooperative venture between department of defense they funded it and the apartment of labor and the v a is considered one of the better programs to serve transitioning military veterans program provided assistance in the form of reimbursements to employers to provide training for veterans that lead to permanent employment the program was also included funds for assessment for training programs far supportive services for the trainees the disabled veterans outreach program specialist and the local veterans employment representatives staff that's on the state level develop the employment training programs the veterans eligible for this assistance where those with military occupations that were not transferable those that were on apply for long periods of time or those that have a thirty percent or greater disability the smog the program we think would be a real benefit it because it would give the state employment workers something to go out to the manufacturers and employers and say i have something to talk to you about federal government going to help you with training new new employees i think it's a  situation a similar program would help the men and women transitioning today the many men and women and the reserves and the guard members who are reentering the workforce thank you for this opportunity and i'm available a number of important pieces of legislation in regard to h r twenty seven twenty one mr garza has is on the right track and that denial of knowledge of benefits services and and earned rights is tantamount to denial of those services benefits and and rights that earned by virtue of military service the we would suggest instead of locking the be a in or d o d into a cd rom our experience in working with young troops at walter reed and elsewhere is that more portable it is and the more cool it is the more they're likely to hang on to it and right now at the tap program they get all this paper and most of it never makes it back home if you get my memory stick that also doubles as a key chain and it looked sharp they'll keep that and that plugs into any computer and i had accomplishes the same task with having those  sites as well as the information that is contained in federal benefits for veterans and their families booklet that is updated every year based on changes by the congress and in regulation incidentally it even here at the flagship at walter reed every time i go down there i take the most current version about thirty of them with me and that's i go down several times a month the young people still have outdated versions of it no matter how much v a in the o d s where they have the most current information they don't and so those things are all gone but when i put in the extras on the table and they're all gone when i come back the next week so getting good information out we can't do too much of that it really needs to be done the second bill is thirty seven eighty six the cell phones the v a s for that the one thing that we would urge you to be very cautious of is watering down this bill by inserting the word knowingly that word knowingly was inserted in the veterans preference act veterans economic opportunity act employment opportunity act and it is basically gutted that act for any enforcement in enforcement of veteran's preference in federal employment and same thing is true when people say the contract will be immediately terminated as of what date as of the date of the orders are supplied or as the date of the end of the billing period that may be anywhere from thirty to ninety days those things need i would suggest to be pinned down to make sure that the act really accomplishes the protection you're seeking r sixty seventy anything that we can do to assist the spouses and families of those who are deployed overseas we should do and this is one of the very minimum things that can be accomplished then what few things that has no cost but should be done it's six two to one on regard to sub contracting i hope that the committee staff and the and the members will work with us or a number of problems with sub contracting that need to be addressed this is only one and the whole intent of one and as for sixty one having to do it be a pick your mate needs to be significantly tightened up if i may suggest particularly when it comes to sub contracting and  in specifically it needs to be locked in the black letter law at the information on who prime contractors are sub contracting with cannot in any manner shape or form be considered private information or proprietary information and denied to the congress and to the veterans advocates it's public money and we have a right to know how much money is being spent with what company and therefore we haven't been able to track the sub contracting on any of the major primes in any agency including v a in regard to federal work study just to ensure that there's no match this can only help and we would encourage is you can call it a pilot program but it needs to go nationwide and one of the reasons that program works and works well as the money follows the veteran where he or she can get a placement that is going to be kind gruet with their course of study and advance their future career in regard to sixty five in terms of injun relief in most cases i think we need to look to tax relief for those few employers who are bearing the cost of this war along with those who are being mobilized and serving and we need to look to incentives more but at the same time we need to tighten up the stick and and mr says sandland deserves great credit for in the deuce in this bill to prove sanctions and particularly injunctive relief in regard to governmental institutions one of the worst violators of userra is state and local and county governments all across the nation in regard to the paralympics we share with one caucus always fully support this bill and that is that it is specifically written in either to the black letter law or into the committee report that everything that is done with this program be congressman and complimentary and not in any way deleterious to the current went to games or to the wheelchair games currently under operation by v last but by no means least has to do is six to seven to and i thank mr welch for i do sing this legislation it is much needed tool and the only thing i can suggest though is that we change the name of it to warrior opportunity  conversion something other than shwe that is that you dish word that means something unclean and in certain parts of the country it met was met with ridicule by employers and being from new york you know exactly what i mean mr holland i was when you first got smart that through that acronym came out of nowhere and it didn't help us let's put it that way market the program but it's an important program and in this room in one thousand nine hundred two i testified on behalf of what became the emergency veterans job training act which essentially was the same program and that later the emergency was dropped later in the eighty's and i became the veterans job training act and then that expired and then due to the military conversion  downsizing subsequent to the cold war in the first gulf war we got the service members through and and we did get that renewed several years later but we didn't get any funding for it and therefore the program died this program particularly w used in conjunction with the opportunity tax credit for disabled vets that mister that mr rangle got through ways and means in two thousand and six december two thousand  proved to be very important marketing tools that can be used by disabled veteran outreach program workers l v ers and others for the record since labor has not publicized these two documents implementing that debbie o t c for disabled vets which is a very important tool i would with permission of the chair submit these to be included with the record so at least the congress can start to do what department of labor is not doing last but not in no means least i would be remiss if i didn't say that u  senior representative from the veterans employment and training service of the united states department of labor here this afternoon to listen to what could be the essential tool that their people will pick up and use out in the field in order to get jobs for those young men and women returning it sounds like we're somewhat angry at this lack of diligence and it's lack of passion for the job to be done it's because it's justifiable i've gone over time and i thank you very much f i'm not going to go into the exact answer but it's not something you want to say in front of your mom do you believe mr weidmann that under h r twenty seven twenty one a cd with a better veterans inside information is a good way to bridge the outreach gap between receivers and senders that are also double as data six which would enable the veteran to not only download or open up files that are in storage on the device but also connect directly to  more i realize what find out what works including and gifts that we give them and it needs to be cool it needs to be portable and particularly those in the combat arms they like things that they can carry with them that's why i suggested that in addition to that electronic device you do something that is a tri fold or a quad fold card that it cut the same size as a credit card they can stick in their wallet if you give that to them at the transition assistance program or at the military hospital where they're recuperating from loans they'll take that and stick it in their wallet and you have all the key links in the websites of all the agencies on there and they'll pull it out when they need it they're never going to find that that t that is five by by eleven they're never going to find a thick book light but this they will find in a pull it out of their wallet or they'll use the electronic device right mr daley does that with that address your concern about veterans from rural in course the we have the the veterans one stop locations where that they can go for information the more information we give them the better absolutely and sir do you believe that  formalizes their agreements or work with us o c that the v a will no longer support the national veterans wheelchair games or other similar events that was a concern that after talking with mr you know that's not his twenty seven twenty one are that the v a is not conducting outreach efforts to older groups of veterans and you suggest disseminating this information to this group do you think a compact just is not the most effective tool for this population and what would you suggest for instance is this generation of veterans going to benefit from electronic media like a cd or what a pamphlet or reading material be more effective i think th that is makes i mean some of them are going to benefit some obviously aren't that computer later in this that certainly not the catch all answer to the older group i believe the testimony we presented back in may on the older vets address some laws that are currently in existence that congress has implemented in past years that is meant to address older vets the v a just hasn't complied with that's one avenue you did the this information or in written format room for improvement or would you suggest another name also that's not an issue for us but it is a concern that we do have a training program tha minutes thank you mr chairman again i appreciate the testimony today we would like perhaps to submit some questions as a come up as we work with these things as always i appreciate your testimony you really give us some good thoughts as to the different areas on the paralympic committee you know we've got some a little difference of opinion but i think all of us  agree that you know the primary thing that we're trying to do with all of these things is to serve the you know the entire population and you know that mange guys that are you know just wanting to play pickup all the way up to you know competing  things you know about trying to you know get the information out you know what's the most valuable to of doing that i agree you know and that might change so we might want to look at maybe  working with the author about maybe giving a range or something but again working with you guys working with everybody to try and figure out how we can get the information out that's a challenge and i've been to many tap programs and stuff and i think the the want to there i don't have any doubts in my mind it's just difficult when you're dealing with people that are sometimes seriously injured sometimes or home and i've been to the ceremonies when they come out and you know they're there they've got their mind seeing a kid you know sometimes that they've never seen before so you know you're just the whole gamut but trying to use the technology that we've got you know to get the message out and then so that they can keep it and more importantly have somebody you know have something to allow for somebody you're allowing the future to to get the information so again thank you all very much for your for your testimony taking the town be here could you elaborate on that please again our biggest concern is that with any training program back to the service members are given the skills that will help them for today's economy and many cases many of the training programs that are currently in existence do not do that employers are looking elsewhere for skilled employees and there's no need for that and there's no need for them to have to look overseas so we feel that our veterans should be trained with all up to date technology that that will meet today's demands and place in the future so that's the kind of training program we're looking for and under h r sixty two twenty four you state that veterans should be permitted to participate to be a work study students in federal agencies do you propose that veterans be given internships at federal agencies yes and do you think that the requirement stated under h r sixty two twenty one should be extended to all decide whether he or she would like to compete it would be beneficial if we had both competitive and recreational noncompetitive programs available i completely agree with that  probably clarify something after speaking with during the break as well as listening to a statement i mean there is a chance we might be mistaken misinterpreting the intent of the legislation and we only want to make sure that the winter sports clinic and snow ass doesn't become a competitive environment because that is literally the first time a lot of people get on some of these devices and it's strictly rehabilitation and it's not to say that this law wouldn't promote some competitive nature elsewhere d that run that program and maybe they get together and work out you know any differences or make a better understanding of the intent of the law but i don't want to give that impression any competitive nature in the in the whole arena thanks for the clarification i say that you know the same thing applies to children too to non veterans that you know that there are some people who by temperament take well to competition and thrive in it and there are others who like to just compete against themselves if you will or try to get pleasure and and improve their performance in whatever sport it is adaptive or not so i think the whole having the whole range being available  seems like a good thing to me mr bozeman to you have any more questions well thank you to our third panel for testifying before the subcommittee thank you for your patience and your continued dedication to our nation's veterans and you are now excused and we invite our fourth panels to the witness table joining us on the fourth panel is mr pett ago associate deputy undersecretary for policy and program management for the u s department of veterans of veterans affairs accompanied by diane hartman director of national programs and special events for the u s department of veterans affairs welcome thank you for being here thank you for i'm pleased to be here today to provide the department of veterans affairs views on pending legislation accompanying me as diane hartmann director of national programs and special events the a a still reviewing h r sixty two twenty one sixty two twenty five and sixty to seventy two and will provide views on those bills in a subsequent views a letter h r twenty seven twenty one would require v a to develop and the secretary of defense to distribute to members of the armed forces upon their discharge or release from active duty a compact disc containing information that v a determines what help veterans that information would include the benefits for which veterans may be eligible under the laws administered by a comprehensive explanation of how to apply for benefits and a list of all v a facilities the bill would also require v a and d o d to maintain an internet website with information clearly explaining v a benefits and other things v supports this bill it would clearly enhance v a s already regular us outreach and information dissemination efforts h r thirty seven eighty six the service members contract relief act and h r sixty seventy the military spouses residency relief act if enacted would affect service members there for v a defers to the department defense regarding the merits of these bills h r forty two fifty five the united states olympic committee paralympic program act of two thousand and seven would authorize v a to make a grant to the u s olympic committee to plan develop manage and implement the paralympic program for veterans and members of the armed forces it also would require v a to inform all veterans with physical disabilities of the paralympic program encourage their participation and require that v a ensure access to an appropriate use of facilities by program participants v bill because it is unnecessary would divert funds intended for veterans care to non veterans and would benefit only a limited number of veterans v a has an established office of national programs and special events that oversees highly successful and well attended national rehabilitative programs for disabled veterans this office works with the u s o c to help elite level athletes compete in their paralympic programs that office currently oversees for national events the national disabled veterans wonder sports clinic the national veterans wheelchair games the national veterans golden age games and the national veterans creative arts festival also a pilot summer sports clinic scheduled for later this year in san diego california is specifically designed for veterans with serious disabilities each year thousands of disabled veterans have the opportunity for self development to participation in these events among other things the bill would require be a to notify and encourage participation of catastrophic lee injured veterans many of whom would not be able to participate in these events v a currently allows the u s o c to distribute materials about the paralympic program at any of the a's offices of national programs and special events additional notification is unnecessary although we applaud the u s o sees efforts to bring more veterans into their elite athletic competitions we believe v a s events are much more suited to providing the services veterans need the a's goal is to introduce sports and other recreation to disabled veterans and make it a part of their daily lives  existing partnership with the u s o c allows those who rise to elite athletic performance to take their training to the next level through the u s o c paralympic program we are in the process of estimating the costs that would be associated with enact this bill and will provide them for the record h r sixty two twenty four the pilot collar work study programs for veterans act of two thousand and eight would require the v a to conduct a five year pilot project to test the feasibility and advisability of expanding the scope of certain work study related activities to include work study positions available on site at educational institutions that these positions in the program may include those in academic department and in student services the bill would require v a personnel to supervise veterans in these positions while v a supports the principle of exploring possible expansion of the work study allowances under the current statute we do not support this bill because the activities now described in that section relate primarily to activities that support v a s mission of services and assistance to veterans and their dependents whereas the types of activities proposed would not relate to that mission in addition v a supervision of the work study participants would be administratively burdensome given the range of activities that would be involved throughout the university this concludes my statement mr hall i would be happy to entertain any five in the report from the office of the expected inspector general for v a it seems that v a makes purchases for the department of defense yet the v a has a memorandum of agreement with the department of the army to the army do purchases for the why is that mr hall i'm not at all familiar with that issue but i would be happy to try to get your response for the record thank you that you can add that to the package of  things you're sending us under h r sixty two twenty four you state that it would be administratively burdensome for the v a to supervise work study participants as outlined in the bill could the v a delegate  supervisory duties to the university i believe that would be a possibility we do have some programs that we had minister where we do delegate responsibility and if if given the statutory authority to do that i think that that would be an improvement to that proposal is the office of national programs and special events a permanent office i'm mr hall i'm going to ask you this dianne hartmann to  respond to that question put your button on the please thank you sir the office of national programs and special events was formed in two thousand line it is a permanent office th hartman and what's the current budget speech i'm sorry the budget budget of the office of national programs and special events right now the budget is four point six million dollars that includes the operational costs of the events as well as staff thank you and lastly i would ask you mr had a go first of all thank you for taking part in a roundtable discussion on outreach and regarding h r twenty seven twenty one i would assume and encourage you to as you develop this concept of a whether it's a compact disk or a memory stick or whatever device seems to be the most widely accepted among our veterans and different age groups to coordinate with the outreach effort that we discussed with the council and to make it as holistic as possible i'm sure you're thinking that way but i just wanted to mention that because some of us in this room maybe weren't at the roundtable discussion and that's all the questions i have turn out to member bozeman for his question thank you chairman first of all thank you all so much for your hard work for veterans and we really do appreciate you mr pedagog on this hartmann for all that you do i'm a resistance at the v a medical center level defending recreational therapy programs please describe who has overall responsibility for the recreational therapy program and is there a budget line item for the program and  think earlier we heard testimony to the fact that when you actually go out and talk to these men and women you know there's a problem in the sense i don't want to they don't want to be at the hospital you know their whole lot for that kind of situation open playing basketball or or whatever they're doing so can you address that for me yes i can first of all the recreation therapy program in the is part of patient care service which is  national programs office is separate from that originally all of our rec our national program started in rec therapy and they were separated separated and elevated to a higher level as far as the  shot yes sir they are well on the national offices but our planning staff is around the country because our events move from one location one medical center to another year to year so i have staff in the field that i constantly working we usually work three programs a year as far as the question about the difficulty of staff getting to these programs that that's true about eight years ago it was very difficult rex therapists and caregivers as well as veterans to have funding to get to these events and once this program was elevated there was quite a bit of policy developed and consistency put together among the programs so that these programs would be recognized as part of medical care and part of rick's therapy that our veterans who were attending would be given caregivers when necessary to go with them and those caregivers would be given official travel and administrative leave there still are issues that the funding to get the participants as well as the v a staff to these programs is not always part of the budget of the medical center a lot of the money is fundraised at a local level and a lot of the money that gets to participate there are rates by our service organizations ok can you i guess i would really like to know you know what kind of money that we're talking about individuals you know and the chairman addressed it you know there's there's individuals that want to exercise and compete at all different levels but i really do think part of the you know part of the healing process part of the rehabilitation this stuff really can be very very important you know for certain individuals not not necessarily for everybody although there probably is something you know something for everybody if we can find that the ability to actually access it you know israel important not being pleased because it seems like you know my experience is just got a little bit better you know in some locations but i'd like to know you know what again what kind of money that we're talking about and so how would you address you know the problem the criticism of you know people not wanting to be in the you know that shedding  all the time that the guy that gets out of the hospital you know wants to see that i mean i understand i don't believe that i'm the appropriate person to address that i do not have a clinical background so be inappropriate for me to say that as an observer truly non clinician there i see very positive aspects just from the first time someone's an artist to a new activity or sport to when they're the end of the day after they've had a lesson but if that if that were a concern you know if you are if you are able to say this is a positive thing that clinicians told you that would you agree that we're not funding that like we should based on if it was a very positive thing yes i would i think that that the recreation therapy paragraph is at the could absolutely benefit and our veterans would definitely benefit by  disheartened about the non competitive programs and special events if you're not the person describe them or if you are if you are you would you do that a little bit and if not maybe you could send us a summary of what they are because i mean it's if it's a separate budget that the office of national programs a special events has and i'm curious about the statement that it would benefit only a limited number of veterans i think if it were structured as we see it being structured in considering the number of serious injuries that we're seeing annoying fraternities today be good to have these kinds of recreational and or competitive programs available to as many as possible so i'll be happy to try to clarify that competitive noncompetitive we have two programs now our winter sports clinic and our summer sports clinic which are noncompetitive there clinics there are an introduction to sports and leisure activities the winter sports of course having the key basis around winner activities in the summer will be summer sports in addition to those two components of both summer and winter we also introduce the leisure activities which are activities that the veterans can take home and do that they don't need a mountain for such as i'll just have scuba diving or trap shooting or rock lining those types of things where that they can go home to their local community and doing cycling kayaking for the summer games they don't have to have an ocean to kayak or to do cycling so dench additionally will do golf which we have a lot of programs so those are the noncompetitive the wheelchair games the golden age games and the creative arts festival are all competitive they're competitive locally where through their recreation therapy programs they're introduced to these activities and then the therapists work with them and of course we have the organizations like p v a who have the local chapters who do a lot of local programs for the veterans to get involved and to learn i mean to really develop the competitive skills then they come to the national program to compete in the national program with our partnership through the paralympics we've been able to identify some veterans that have the elite level potential and they have gone on to both the paralympic military program and as mr humor said this year we have six veterans who are part of the paralympic team four of those individuals actually rehabbed at the end medical centers and were introduced to sports through our rec therapists and participated our national programs think the concept is extremely supported by the i and especially by i know my staff the concept because we have no way of knowing where the funding will come from we have to assume that it's going to come from existing dollars and therefore we strongly feel that if we're going to put the existing dollars in to rex therapy it should be with within v a s programs that exist already instead of out into the community therefore more veterans would be able to benefit by the money thank you and just lastly could i ask you if you have a rough number of disabled veterans who are taking advantage of these programs and approximately what percentage that might be the total number of disabled veterans i can tell you that this past year at the national events we had sixteen thousand thirty eight veterans i do not know the percentage versus the number of disabled veterans but i'll be happy to find thank you for the work that you're doing and protest to find before the subcommittee today it's very important that we in congress continue to re evaluate existing laws and review legislative proposals so that we may provide our men and women in uniform our veterans and their dependents the benefits and safeguards that they need to reenter integrate back to civilian life this hearing has provided us with good feedback and i look forward forward to continuing this important dialogue again thank you for your patience and the work that you do thank you to all of our panelists were participating in today's legislative hearing this hearing now s