morning your honors david ross on behalf of the petitioner we have two attorneys here tonight lewis gordon and myself i will be arguing the issue of change circumstances mr gordon will be arguing the issues legislation has to be passed when we talk about change circumstances this is something that we have to look at on a continuous basis that's why multi is so important in this case when this this court decided multi it's specifically found that just because it's the same situation with regard to the government in power doesn't mean that you can't have changed circumstances because of the intensity of what has happened and that is exactly what has transpired in this case we have an individual who has converted to christianity he was a muslim he is now asked to return to a country that has only recently elected the most radical president in the history of this country mr ahmadinejad the government of the united states has called this country an access of evil potentially we may even have an attack on nuclear facilities and the government presupposes to say that there is no sufficient changed circumstances to justify granting this person at the very minimum because you're surely not suggesting  that that the question of iran's nuclear capability is somehow related to your client though technically it is because it shows the intensity of what is transpiring what they're willing to do i mean if we're looking at a country that's willing to kill hundreds of thousands of people what's killing one person mean nothing and in fact it has a history more recently of torturing and killing anybody that it doesn't like there is no due process and iran there isn't a person live today except perhaps a situation is different than for example when we had ayatollah khomeini much more different in the last five years five years ago the president of iran mr mohammed hard to me was actually considered to be a more moderate person and people thought there was going to be a change in the government but in the last two years and especially this year madina job has recently come out and said the holocaust has not occurred we're going to bomb israel the united states is the most horrific terrible country in the world and will do everything we can to stop american imperialism and this is only happened in the last couple of weeks you just have to pick up a newspaper and see this how extreme the country has become not changed circumstances twice the time in terms of your argument assuming that i would go along with you and say that it was bad before and it's worse now what's the relevant time of the changed circumstances around for purposes of the case now in front of us what the circumstances are today or the circumstances when the b i a made a decision that the change circumstances weren't enough that is that is a point that is well taken when the b look at the continuity of what is happening and you see that there is an evolution and then amorphous us you don't look at something at a particular point in time you look at it as it evolves and that's what happened a multi multi was a cop to christian most important change circumstances across the conversion of christianity there is to say had your client not converted to christianity the claim he has now here of death simply wouldn't exist what do i do with that but given  that it was his change that's at least as much as important to the consequence he hears and any change in iran five years ago that probably would have been a better argument but today anybody who has lived in the united states has become so westernized has developed the mors and character that is essential to this country's function those people are now ostracized and put in a situation of such great suspicion in iran that even people who have not converted just regulars just think that his mere presence in the united states then has is the it is the circumstance that will cause his persecution of his return to iran the westernization i situation was so bad he actually went to england to study i think the record will show that he did not flee iraq he went to england to study and for that reason he really didn't have in his mind at that that he was a very other man when he went to england and  just so we understand for he never received any residency in england because had always been has been an issue but let me ask you this is there a certain order of removal that's been filed in this case there has not been an order of ordered to leave the united states within a certain time if you failed to depart there was an alternative order so an absence there is an order but it was a failure to depart by the date set by the director  district director and no date was ever set so he's not in violation technically of any of of any order by the i j a one thousand nine hundred or well the government has argued that there should be no state of removal and this court initially sued the government told him right that is correct your honor so he's still here rightfully your honor you asked about jurisdiction with regard to jurisdiction we have a final b i a decision which is why we're here to i'm asking you all kinds of questions so don't try to weave in one and with the other not going to get you anywhere but per say i have not seen a final order of remove a large deportation because the way the judge crafted it in the exclusion proceeding was that she said if you fail to depart for and within the time set which is correct there will be an alternate order of exclusion and i have not ask you this why did he surrender his passport when i believe this part of the change of venue his case started down in blasting that he should have been a but what do we know about i read representations of this not trying to figure out what do we know one how do we know what the his state is in britain in great britain had his time passport and timely return i mean i read that he was going to be entitled to some sort of permanent citizen daughter and that we believe that where this court court to order a notice to appear to be issued in his case he could then have a hearing on cancellation every move and asylum and then it just would have the opportunity to cross examine him on you know if there was a due process violation in the initial proceeding in which his passport and i'm assuming that this is right the government can say yes or no he was wired as part of that process to turn over his passport he didn't do it just because here you're better custody and then i am they required him to do it if there's a due process violation and they're requiring him to hand it over and then to a substantial document they refuse or fail to hand it back to him that's a pretty lousy remember for a due process violation that he gets to apply for a cancellation removal under the current standard he may well fail that that is to say the extraordinary and unusual hardship necessary to show for a cancellation this point because he has not i'm still i'm still a little puzzled here as to why you filed a petition for his corpus when he is not under any order and he's not in custody it was this that was this an effort to try and force the government to do something and it's curious but it that you're trying to force the government to do something because of course you're drawing attention to a client who isn't under any order to leave the united states he's seeking a solution to this issue  there's there is we don't know of any other legal remedy to solve this problem that's why we i do realize this question a little bit outside the record have you have you tried if you tried seeking for example a private bill you've been through any political career m with our agreements with countries around the world you will see under two forty one b that there are specific provisions and when a petition not trying to make a big point bad that it just appears that he came from england and there's always new dispute that he came from england no ok we do not and it would appear then that england could taken back but it won't take him back well united states and attempted to retrieve his passport from the immigration and naturalization service at that time the service was unable to locate his administrative file or his passport  voluntary departure time was extended until such time that the service was able to locate his file and or his passport england hasn't improved over the last sixteen years  well that would be really nice if we could compelling them to do that but i don't think we're going to issue a written mandamus to do that let me ask you then asked why did he handle over his passport i do not know is it customary that he would be in this circumstance you heard what opposing counsel said but i do not know whether the imams asked him to hand over his passport i said that he did but i don't know so much so too and i'm asking you what is the custom you know you tell him you don't confess i do not know independently of any case directly comparable to this one in the sense of the cited case law where and i'm assuming that this is right and you so far don't appear to have any information to dispute it i assume that he did not as a result of their having lost he has suffered it appears from the record we have in front of us a substantial hardship because he is no longer able to return to great britain to the status he enjoyed there that strikes me as not only wrong i can't find a case on point but perhaps this maybe is going to be the case that strikes me as a violation of due process when and if it is a violation of limitations even the constitutional claims wrong that occurred presumably in nine hundred ninety you know this strikes me as if this is the way we do justice in this country there's something seriously wrong here i from from great britain to take him back no you know if the united states wishes to negotiate something we want to have our state department talk to their foreign secretary in trying to arrange something then perhaps you could do that but i haven't seen any efforts in the record to suggest that we've done anything other at the same time counsel there is there was no there was no actual departure date ever given to him he has been and he has been nothing but neglected since nine hundred ninety it's hard to fault him when he's not under an order for failing to come forward to do something and as i can tell from the question that i posed to two opposing counsel i'm puzzled as to why they filed a hideous corpus claim here when you don't have the body literally there's nobody there that is  put him back in a position as near as maybe you know you may get some bad lot of this case or else it this way or they just sort of maybe it's a really good law you don't like very much  situation where you take a passport from somebody coming into the united states and then lose that we don't have you don't have any kind of rules of address this kind of situation do you and forty one we remove people every day with i cannot answer that question i know that they have numerous cases that are and priorities within themselves only apparently he would have been removed previously  which may include of course defending the board's decision but ordinarily you ask a client ok like where are we with this we have not done that in this case he was ordered  that as far as i can tell the government would prefer to pretend that this man does not exist and that from indications so far they would prefer to allow him to live out his natural life running a restaurant in long beach without any papers whatsoever in a permanent state or states along as he lives in a state of limbo is that basically what we're looking at if you have if you get what you want you know your honor i can what are we looking at  i would say that if we get what we want which we should and that this individual has to motions to reopen based on the solemn but as i think i think the government would be well advised to go to our mediation unit and see if you can work this one out i know that you don't have any rules for that and that's exactly i think a good time for the government to realize when it's time to compromise when you don't have rules that are clearly applied to a situation like this you might take that message back to people in washington yes there's a big deal wonderful program for sixty