thank you and good evening everybody today is november twentieth tuesday and welcome to foxborough as board of selectmen meeting you go through the agenda briefly that we have force a public hearing scheduled for today first on that seven o'clock it's a liquor violation for waxy o'connors at seven fifteen the school department going to present one of the remaining actually the remaining word out of the turf field for the december eleventh meeting eight o'clock we have a public airing a l violation for the c b s scene restaurant patriots place in eight thirty there's a public hearing continued for the fox berm andren located at three sixty nine central street at nine o'clock with the fourth public hearing for the bluefin ok so the seven o'clock public hearing before we discuss or read into the record notice is here by given that the board of selectmen will conduct a public hearing on tuesday november twentieth two thousand and twelve at seven p m in the town hall meeting room forty south street foxboro massachusetts pursuant to its licensing authority in accordance with massachusetts general laws annotated chapter one thirty eight sections twenty three sixty four and sixty seven and all amendments there to the purpose of the hearing will be to review and discuss information concerning alleged violations of chapter one thirty eight that occurred at the waxy o'connor's one twenty one main st foxboro massachusetts all interested parties are invited to attend again if you recall at our last hearing we asked we continued we add anything for citizens input table be easy if everybody hear you if you do speak so my understanding is you invited us here because this is a joint community and school department project sponsored by the school committee for the one article for the december special town meeting so this is i think you know by now i think you've talked about a couple of times but  just to give the public a review this started about four years ago with the turf subcommittee wasn't started by the school department so they started a community group fund raising long story short she can give you a longer story but they secured an n grassroots grant of two hundred thousand dollars and then they start fund raising with the economy kind of oneself a little bit so what has happened in very recent history is that the church subcommittee approached the school department to see if we were interested in partnering with them to bring the project forward and this is obviously a project of mutual interest so they were the community group once a community feel to be used by all different groups in the community on the school side our primary interest was if we don't have an on site it facility so as everybody knows it's historically since the high school was built forty years ago that the most of the effort xico has over the herne middle school still so i think it was kind of a joint interest and pursue it as such so the school committee is sponsoring the war and article for the december special town meeting and we've been working with the town finance folks to pursue different funding options and different funding options that have been put forward the school committee got behind one option and now things have changed a little bit so we take the guidance from town and last night at our school committee meeting with the new possible oh i know the funding they also voted to keep continue forward with that so that's kind of it in a nutshell and i think more the this projects started as deb said about four years ago and it was pretty much a grassroots and it was a bunch of coaches that we're dealing with the youth sports that they got together in the parents and what's happened over the years is you've got a sport like soccer or that used to be one season is now is two and three seasons you've got lacrosse where it used to be nonexistent three and even four seasons and if you look at some of the young programs each age level have two or three or four teams deep now in boys and girls so from just a very simple reasoning that there's just not enough fields in foxborough in foxborough over time has fallen behind some of the surrounding towns in keeping up with the number of fields and  certainly you know only one of the few communities that don't have a turf in one of the only communities that don't have a field at the high school so putting that all together we started a five zero one three c a nonprofit group as dep said we  raised money over time we initially came to the board of selectmen and said you know before we bring this forward is this something that the board would be interested in at that time i think we had visions of raising a million dollars but i think our first mailer went out  just before the holidays when everything dumped and we're almost embarrassed to send it out and we certainly didn't reach out to the businesses because it was dire straits at the time but nonetheless we raised we we went to the selectmen went to the school committee and said should we go forward we got their blessing because it would be on school property we solicited the one organization with the help of the n f l with the help of robert kraft with our two hundred thousand dollars grant at the same time we're reaching out small fundraisers we had with football tournaments and we had a band playing all different stuff we raised about sixty thousand dollars and then we also got what we called in kind donations for instance tree tech is going to clear the trees at no cost and then we put a price tag on that so when you add up all the bits and pieces in all the soft cos my profession what i do during the day is i'm a civil engineer and i have for years been designing it for a lot of schools around that's what i do for a living so i said i  would add those services to the mix peter gleick could doesn't have really kids in the program anymore said he would do the same thing as a civil engineer so add up those pieces it's about four hundred thirty thousand dollars worth of cash grants in in kind soft costs that we're going to put towards this couldn't get quite to the price tag so we went to the school and said well can we put it together as a community project now when we first started the project we looked at where we could put the want to eliminate a field because we don't do in this additional field and if it takes place over another field you don't get as much benefit from that so that was a big consideration destruction during construction to the neighbors of the  and the overall cost so he has done the location of the high school came out number one and mostly talking to the high school that as dempsey it's the only school around that doesn't have a field that the high school in you know for the athletes but people that want to go out and use it the track and all that stuff it just made sense it saves the issue of bussing kids from the high school to to the different fields so the matter how we looked at it always came back to the high school that was so when we got the grant we had planned for it to be behind the high school in front of the school the more that school looked at it it makes sense to go in the back for some reason but it makes more sense to go in the front for other reasons because if it's going to be a community feel you have access in the front of the baseball field you have access from the i go school you have access to access at the high school it's kind of a central location if you want to walk out of the cities jewellers or grab a sandwich or something that's a little more amenable than having it way in the back going in the back also brought up other concerns of those of the one way in but that will brought in the back with sidewalks and stuff as undersized utilities to will be the turf field and lighting we're showing the track and we're showing the bleachers and that's really just a master plan lesson we want to do is put something in there and then years later or whatever someone gets the ability to put between the practice fields you're going to accommodate high school football high school field hockey tennis is still there in the beauty of this field is it's an additional field so the high school  still have to play where they're playing at the turn because they don't have the bleachers and the accommodations for that so they would stay there across the stay at pace and sort of plays out and back there but this is an additional one so if you look at the youth sports consists of a four letter program i think because foxboro didn't go in that direction to get a nice maintenance program for the school that's a positive the negative if you don't get the benefit of federal state programs to the athletic field so that's kind i think you i think you all know that basically the original intent or hope was that there would be funding available for not only the town hall project but the turf field that wouldn't require  you know additional taxation of debt or you know debt inclusion or anything of that nature the after and randy can speak to this as well obviously after kind of projecting out the next three years looking at the revenue sources we have what we do have some sources that are already in excess of potentially a budget requirements not enough to cover these two projects and so that's you know a shortfall that we can't deal with in the same way as we originally thought would come to us as jim said of this is about four hundred thirty thousand that comes through in kind or donations that are out there plus the n f l grant which does go away in the spring if we don't make a move going forward the option that basically was then played out  was that while the high school project has the balance of its funds in excess just excess of a million dollars currently it could be used on a high school renovation of existing feel s as long as it's still undone under the high school project and not dissimilar to what we did when we did the or we rebuilt the bleachers the field and track the same time we did here under the same kind of funding source which also was not part of the original project but obviously was a community need at the time and we were also fortunate to have the excess funds to be able to do it during the project beyond that the school committee voted in agree last night that they would come up with another seventy five thousand out of revolving accounts  building rental account that we have it will obviously pretty much drain that account at this point because we use sixty two thousand towards the track in this right but you know we're comfortable we can move forward with our budgets with that seventy five  and then discussing with randy the options from the town side it would require the last hundred twenty five thousand to come from the overlay sir plus and by putting that all together we come up with the million six that's needed to put this project  together we admit this is a phase one is jim said phase two if and when it were to happen is another million there's another million eight to put in the bleachers the track and everything else that would go along with that the concessions the  press box but at least even a face to doesn't happen phase one does provide ample amount of additional time i don't want to turf field it gives our kids the opportunity who are playing out her fields in neighboring communities to practice on a turf field which they don't have today so if they're going to go and play in canton a football game they could practice on our on the turf field that we would have at our place of the prior to that game  at least get some experience on it so we think this is a doable plan but again what we have said in the school committee has said quite loudly last night is that this article going forward basically will be five thousand and that's how the funding source so we're laying it all out making it very crystal clear to the taxpayers where all the sources of funds are coming from the fact that phase one does what it does and phase two would do you know another portion of it if if would happen down in the future so i think at this point we're trying to put everything on the table is absolutely to our minds nothing that's you know the taxpayers won't know about if they vote to go forward with this and as i said whether phase two happens or doesn't happen field and you know the softball field yes and sports in this parking so the baseball field softball field would be taken one year ok and right now there's a gravel area that's know at least concept or something if someone wanted to get a snack or a lot of times these admissions or one of the questions you know what you put this in what is it cost to maintain it a lot of times have adult women soccer men soccer and you want to get with to probably you know also trying it out but basically we're looking at the four hundred thirty between donations in kind of services and the n f l grant we're looking at a million dollars that's the current balance on the project which the town has already bonded and appropriated seventy five thousand from one of the schools the schools building revolving account and the balance which is one hundred twenty five thousand to come from the high school for additional alterations basically in the fields right then you have seventy plus thousand dollars from a evolving account right internally we have a revolving account that when we write our facilities you know the balance of that is what basically we are using to put towards a field as well so to be clear that one hundred twenty five thousand would be article six because he thinks he's jim every year we quote required by state law to reserve a portion of taxation for two things for tax exemptions that this town has granted historically to it for a variety of different categories of folks who qualify for tax exemptions and then we also are required to maintain an amount to cover any abatements that people apply for with regards to you know just means to their taxes so we're required to annually you know reduce how much we make available for budgets by this overlay amount typically for us it runs about four hundred forty thousand half of that to be for exemptions half of that for overlay but as time moves on we settle tax cases because this is typically usually you know tax cases out there that we have to reserve for whether they're the state utility of state filings of the state on by public utilities or locally and then as time goes on these cases get settled and the amounts that are left in the overlay can be released by the board of assessors and then for we appropriation a town meeting and so typically we scraped the script out overlay each year if we felt that we had there was enough in there would still be source for you to capital or are operating uses such as that so how much if you take the hundred twenty five thousand have to be remain for prior years if he has a current year amount for prior years after accounting for  for plus another seventy five thousand that we had within that number that we would put forward towards next year's capital budget because we were looking to take two hundred thousand out this year that i had identified i think we could take two hundred out put towards capital to show in addition to the six seventy five thousand for else is the school department behind this there's at the school committee i mean both i mean we have to both i did i mean it's i mean i understood that this was not a priority for the school department i think yet are not last night but at the previous school committee me i think something was misconstrued so i'm going to explain it as it was said that that isn't is not true but it's taken a little bit out of context so i'm going to explain it the way we explained it a couple weeks ago which is this started as a community organization and they came to the school department to see if we would help to school department i'm saying administration and school committee we are one so will we come forward to help support a community based projects so this is a little bit unusual usually what any project is sponsored by one entity and one entity alone so that's not the case here so community project has been going on for a few years there at the point where they  make it go forward or not because of the rules in the n f l really came to the school committee and said would we be willing to support the project going forward it kind of joined together so that's really what's happened without the time frame of the n f l grant which only goes until may of this coming spring it and what we said was in an ideal world if we were to have proposed this project originally meaning coming originating with our idea it would have been certainly better to work on our budget for f y fourteen at that pass at the main town meeting have capital improvement you know plans solidified which usually occurs in february or march and have some idea of when we're moving forward with the barrel project and then we would probably then be you know working on this but that is not the way it happened so we didn't originate this project so we're we're supporting another timeline that was created by the community group so in and what we said was in an ideal world that would be the order if we were originating this project ourselves but we're not so it is what it is this is the time frame the community is going to decide if they want to support it or not if they if they have interest in going forward and not which is why some of the money is coming from the school project some is coming from the capital overlay so this is a joint project this is not the schools asking for another hundred twenty five thousand to finish an idea we just thought been an idea that the community has to been trying to accomplish for four years so that is why it is going to for a town meeting and because it is a joint community and school project so it will be used by town youth groups by the recreation department by adult leagues in addition to the schools where only one group is going to be using this field so we certainly had interest when they came to us because it meets any we have for an on site facility the surface being probably secondary for us whether it's t grass was secondary to having an on site facility but the surface certainly does matter to us because right now being one of the few that doesn't have a turf field when our teams compete elsewhere in their own turf there's two reasons why that puts our kids at a disadvantage number one is competitively because they're not used to the surface they have to get used to it so we often when kids are going forward in terms of a play or something you know really important we play we head space on someone else's turf field to allow our kids to have an opportunity to see what the surface feels like part of the ball move a little bit differently how do you have to adjust differently it can also and this is not the first downs but it should be the first thing with it could be a safety issue because kids are playing on a surface the not used to and i'm not the athlete either and i certainly haven't played anything on turf but that is what occurs when the surfaces are different and so for us having an onsite facility is first but also giving our kids the opportunity to practice and play right now it might be just practice but for some teams that will be also play is very important so this was a joint effort that started with the community four years old it's either going to move for whatever it is and that's why it's going to tell me for so that the community can decide if they want it or not so the school department has certainly partnered with the churches of people because we have a mutual interest but it's a mutual interest with the entire town not just with a few people it's for youth groups wrecked apartment but felt for a while so there is going to be a group that oversees the use of this field so that we all kind of get a piece of the field and the time and how that's going to work and how we're all going to work cooperatively to be able to schedule the use of the field so it's not a high school field as a community feel and that's one of the reasons why the behind the high school didn't quite end up the the right location because from a high school perspective that would invite with us because it's right there but from a community perspective it's not that excessive oh it is hidden but some people had concerns about safety being in an isolated area so for the school side front or back would work great because we need and i think facility but for the community purpose with accessibility being able to access from the i go from the booth the high school that really turned out to have the best interests of the entire town in mind so that's where we are using australia i mean i also attended the advisory committee meetings in there there have been a lot of questions coming up and i've spoken to jim personally about this and and my question is and i mean i understand i understand the need for it i understand the desire to have a tr i understand that but what i have a real had time with is why it has to be at the high school and not at the her so that because at the her and you have all you would be doing was replacing the field you have the bleachers in place you have the commentary box in place you have the lights in place and and one of the questions that the advisory committee put  this a need or want and that's that's a good question i mean do we need a field or do we want a field and specifically do we need a feel for the high school or do we want it at the high school and in my mind it's a lot more expensive and to the taxpayers if we put it at the high school rather than putting it there her in school and if the whole idea here is just to provide a turf field for the kids to play on then i don't see why the added costs of going up to the high school i mean it be very very nice to have a campus  but i just you know you let me just say i got you just wonder in these economic times and believe me when i begin to going to get in the state a that we have had in the past i mean that the money isn't there i mean it's our you know so i mean i think we have to be in plus you know we have other things you have other properties the school that's in charge of that you have the barrel school i mean i heard the taylor has to do things you know have things come in and those are things that are coming up and so my my question is what's your priority i mean is the turf field a priority or is it just something that would be very nice to have ok well i think i answered the question about the priority but i think a couple of things that are important points locate the possible locations that you saw was originated years ago by the choice of group schools had nothing to do that the consideration of the possible locations around town pace and i guess was in the running for a while i don't know we were involved in that  the if the turf subgroup would come to the school department or school committee and us to say would we partner with them to just simply replace the surface after your home school i can tell you i'm speaking for myself we have been less inclined to  to partner with them for a couple of reasons number one our main problem is that we don't have an onsite facility and kids and teams are traveling over there for practice sometimes by us sometimes they have to get their own transportation you know it is an issue so our interest was the onsite facility to say that we're going to get behind something that just with a different surface of the herne doesn't meet the primary need of the high school secondly we certainly wouldn't be talking about point and alex try to explain very briefly those funds that are left over the mint million dollars high school project proceeds as a bond proceeds that we received and we borrowed under state statute a twenty year purpose statute everything that you is under a specific statute that has a purpose life so a bar for the high school we borrowed under a twenty year purpose life statute at athletic facilities are considered under state statutes fifteen year purpose li purpose of bonding and then there's another statute in those statutes that say you cannot take one proceeds that you borrowed for a purpose life of x and then reappropriate them for a project that has a purpose life of less than x and that's what we would have here is you can't take twenty year what is necessary to your money and then go to town meeting and we appropriate them for a fifteen year project as defined by state statute so it's not it's not an option to use these funds for and other year purpose you know either for you can use are two things something that is within the four corners of the authorizing article for the high school project which was being proposed here is or for any other twenty year purpose which would be and even any other building that we would know the other side of that is so if we then were to let's say move it over to the air you're looking at about a million dollar proposition to build just interview we have about two hundred fifty thousand in  thousand but really if you accept if you if we're supporting that we're supporting the project correct that so that's all where we are voting on whether we support this and that right right one question the million dollars you know that you were originally well first off i think what you describe in terms of if we had if we had the approach that we wanted to take in terms of doing the analysis that would be the order that we would not be going to town meeting on this right now that we would be doing that working to really about uniting the proposal let's say there was never any trips up committee for us for years and we suddenly thought about this it wouldn't be what we go with now right december because that's not the natural order of things right when it comes to the budget cycle and that's what we meant by that right and so what i'm trying to understand is if there is a way for us to have the natural order of things happen in any way shape or form here because say this million dollars how long can you not a how can i long can you hold onto it so that we take the time so that we can explain to the taxpayer ok these are our priorities we have the town hall the the tailor and the turf field those are all priorities for the town what's it going to cost everybody the entire community and we don't know that right now and that's my concern about supporting it the way it's laid out and you know i would hope that those are still our priorities so we don't lose the value that has been given in kind or offered as a donation certainly we risk losing the n f l piece but everything else still stands can we still move forward with that not so sure everything else does still stick you would have to explain debbie you've also got services provided by other companies and going is there a barbie would be attracted at that point in time i think if this thing goes belly up at this point time i think it's the end of it and i think it's not support i think it's the end of it i think everybody goes around so the way i think it will be supported i think i believe it will be supported up to town meeting what i'm saying is we can't we support this through the regular process but and while we risk the n f l piece going through the logical process that we typically do go through the just to get to the cost on the burled self and to be eligible for the taylor therefore is years behind that and wish to go forward to we're talking if you're talking about the normal cycle and you want to put it in the order of those type of things we're talking about potential probably five to six years from now and that's what the community wants to do one again we're not the ones making the judgment here we're basically giving the community offer and saying this is what you know we can do as a as a community this is how we can do it you're for it we're behind it it we understand we put it for even but even knowing like all of the combined needs that are there though coming up with a plan to roll it out why would you have to hold the turf field up for five years analysis cost you know figure out what the issues major issues are a waste of them we've only done the first round of broad we're not even through the and the national investigation so i mean of a number i want to throw is going to cost at this point we've isolated what the issues are so we're starting to pull that not the way it is this is a community feel i can tell you that we're not going to put forward a project that affects all the other you know groups in town on our own i mean that this that is not that is not what it what is going on so this is a community project that we have come forward and agreed to support jointly so you know it doesn't it's like when i said the idea work with the natural cycle but it is an hour cycle that we're talking about here so this is not the school's suddenly taking something and moving it up the line it's just not it's a community effort and we're here to support it because the alternative one would have would have been to say no you know we're not going to work collaboratively with groups in town and with the other agencies departments in town that want this field that is not the way we are we always do so to that and to the detriment i guess of how people are perceiving this we are in partnership with the town and always have been and always will be so when  community group that's worked this hard comes forward and says what do you think do you have mutual interest in this we are a collaborative group so we said yes we'll come forward so you know that's the way it is in the town i don't see anybody who could fault that can we we need to i'm still very confused as to one main thing we have heard last year there was about a million and a half left over from the school innovation project now we're talking a million dollars well if this f my only concern here is that we hear a fifteen year life for a capital asset that's going to be used and the monies can only be used for a twenty year life so i don't understand how this money can somehow be renegotiated when the town has never even voted to have this project that this project was you on the agenda you ran you were going to direct we answer that question right now short answer the only time when the issue comes up a tween this being baratunde you know twenty year purpose life is when you have to reappropriate it but if you're renovating assets you know within the scope of the article that was voted at town meeting that that aspect has not come into play certainly there were assets that were renovated within the high school the don't you know all have twenty year life or longer but that's the perp because on average that's the that's the purpose of life for know for the assets or renovated you know on average that that is the the life that's the statute references but you just can't reappropriate it for something that's less than that but you can use it within the context of what was  for other things that might be considered lesser purposeless thank you ok because my children i think this is very comparable to when the library came forward nasa money from town meeting to go through a planning process and then they went to the grand process and they ended up getting a significant grant was it six million dollars about three points five one six ok back in the day and nobody ever thought that was going to come to fruition and that proved came forward another great volunteer group in the town of four well the talents built on volunteerism as you can see in this room and they got the support of the t overwhelmingly for all the effort and hard working basically got hop the money this project may not be hop the money but it's similar to what they were or twenty six percent of rand you probably have that exact number for me don't you oh i think it's an asset to the community i think it's been oh oh i'm time common now i never gave much thought about artificial tribe because back when i played ball and there was nothing there was such a thing conservative every year but it's time to catch up a little bit and my point my point of view the other thing is in answering to your journey i think jimmy in the explained that if we put it at the your home school we're losing a field is gaining a field and and i kind of find it very odd that we don't have a football field to high school i think in the future the infrastructure will follow by another great group of volunteers that have come forward i also think that the also the infrastructure at the or her there will be dated someone that will be needing quite a bit of attention those bleachers only sort of five for so many years then they have to be totally inspected  find they feel they have to be condemned and rebuilt so that that's going to fall in line with this in the future i think i like the location of the high school now that clearly explained to me what's going to be done i think the school the pa is trying to use the assets they've got a town meeting in the same school and that's exactly what they're doing i also think that the town will support this i think it will probably be field and then to be bossed up to st it's getting a little old new to be some long term cost savings in transportation and i just think it's something that i really strongly support and i hope people who come over tell me you support so  and i hope moves forward and i think one hundred twenty five dollars in dollars it's all it's going to come out of town on top of the cost i agree there's other money that could be used for other projects but you know it one small step right now because we can't take any big steps so obviously we can't do a million dollar bills we've been trying to do was go through a small step here a small thing and then we'll move forward to do things because you know there will be more money times will get better they have to take a motion so i very long before that karma was filled with bags and boxes and and people and just everybody wanted to help we probably had three thousand dollars worth of gift full that should be arriving in toms river in about an hour because this stuck in traffic right now but it just brought back a lot to me  and i know we've gone through some rocky roads in the past year but i think that the healing has begun in this town and that regardless where you stood on certain issues that came up this brought the time back together again and it really was overwhelming and i personally like to thank everybody for that contributed in any way and those folks down there are truly truly appreciate of anything that they get if you get a chance to watch the video that chris long but together and the photographs from down chris long that long drive all the way down there after that and i think what struck me was you know i was kind of concerned it was just going to be a going to your closet and get all your old crap and bring it over but a lot of people and i know a lot of they don't have a lot  and they were bringing they bought gift cards they bought a lot of new stuff that was their name out of the pocket yeah gleanings everything and anything you can imagine these these folks were thinking of them one lady had gone to venice to pick up tackle because we had mentioned jacqueline jackal grills and there was four people in line of benny's getting charcoal so she didn't even wasn't able to get charcoal there but it rang a bell with people and you know another public hearing scheduled with that lorraine notices here by given that the board of selectmen will conduct a public hearing on tuesday nov twentieth two thousand and twelve at eight p m in the town hall meeting room forty south street foxboro massachusetts pursuant to its licensing authority in accordance with massachusetts general laws annotated chapter one thirty eight sections twenty three sixty four and sixty seven and all amendments there to the purpose of the hearing will be to review and discuss information concerning alleged violations of chapter one thirty eight that occurred at the c b s scene restaurant two hundred patriot place facts from massachusetts all interested parties are invited to attend thank you  upcoming compliance check and also an article was written in the fox reporter on september thirtieth august thirtieth both the letter and the newspaper article outline the chat changes that we're going to under the watchful eye of an undercover police officer from a different apartment they underage operative went to a bar the bar it c b s seen three bartenders where there were watching the football game not paying attention to her i don't believe there's any other patrons in bar she then went over to the where the bartenders were and asked for a bud light one of the bottom has asked went over to the draft section asked if she wanted a smaller tall and then poured her a bud light draft which he then proceeded to give to her in place in the bar in front of her and then went back to watching the game thank you and just for the record if you could just introduce yourself  boy wasn't paying attention or was distracted or frankly may not have been given a whole lot and it was very very frustrating what they've done what they're going to do again and they have zero tolerance for violations this expression when i was in the navy there was an expression you can make something foolproof but you can't make a sailor proof and i think if this is the end i think all of us who have been in destructive or they get lazy or they just don't care yeah i think that this is what happened here this is not it's clearly not institutional neglect i don't believe it was just a neglect of one individual and unfortunately the are a big draw up there so this is not just you know just a formality this is something that is going to cost them some some rather so i think that you know under under  contrition of the of the licensee but also the plan going forward and we thought the recommendation in the green was a good one would recommend the accepted thank you open up for the god manager would you like to say anything i want to c govern everything would open up for the discussion with the board in just so you know this is a public hearing so we will listen to people if they want to speak from the audience following the discussion i think that you came in before us when you came over as the new manager cracked i think that we explained how important it is and that i probably didn't want to see you sitting up in this year unless you were going to you know the ropes or something it's it's going to earning i understand that you know you want to do the  yeah and i guess at the direction of our attorney and and the chief of police as the town manager i accept that so as just i'm disappointed obviously  and i note that you do go by these procedures and then everybody signs it and when they sign it they can we send it to you you know what i mean there's certain things that just you know take the time i mean you know i've seen the mean just a question so with the letter of reprimand does that mean if there were to be a future violation that's considered the second well you don't know it's definitely a violation it's not there's another violation would be the second third whatever number it is annoying and plus the the rollback is a quiz that really equivalent of a day when you take the all right thank you thank you for taking the steps that you have  eight in conjunction i mean the chief oversaw the purchase of the stand that we have it is not that us the technologies that we are considering we are using what we currently have while we are considering the implementation of something brought up the showcase live in that's the question that i had and they basically said they'd get back to us we had another establishment that was a great idea and they want to head in but the technology and then the stand  much more that it it's human error in but having a scanner gives a lot of comfort that that human error does not happen as frequently and i voted i think i voted against when they said they wouldn't do the scanner and i get to be honest with you i don't know if it was cost or liability or training but i think i would want to insist on using the scanner you have it you know the money they spending on attorneys and so that was let out i mean the other thing about a scanner is that the plus side is a labor saving device when people come through and they can just show the scanner so people and the like in the old days don't want to close so they use it when it's when it's practica security and you get the entrance so it's not something you can just put at the bar as a mobile unit put it there and then the bartender just simply goes over scans it is mobile but you still would have  fax i mean it's just different areas it makes it it's a complicated past to be used at the door that's why we're investigating what else exists and what might be more beneficial moving forward but in the interim we will put  current technology that we pass so this is the first year so first violation according to the fox bros rules and regs on the liquor love letter of reprimand and or suspension up to three days or both and optional with liquor closing hours of eleven and maybe the manager can correct us but what i would think of as this slow and nights during the course of a week to clean the monday and tuesday and i did he had a statement about i think football games and things and i would suspect by eleven o'clock football games are pretty is very serious about enforcement and wants to see realistic punishment as a deterrent and a message to other bar owners that this will be taken seriously  dollars that's a fairly significant cost and then there will be a loss of revenue in those particularly on the two football game nights so you know you're not what you've been doing is a day frankly we thought and uncontested if there was a violation that's a first violation provided the bar learns from that lesson and has no further incidence great that's the whole point so the idea isn't to issue punitive punishment it's not to be harsh it's to make sure the lesson is driven home and to be sure that it's on the record and there's no no opportunity to contest that a b c see that way strike one is on the record no contest that's the important thing frankly i have a little you know you look at the regulations it's a it's a suspension to three days a closing early for ten days closing on a tuesday night doesn't sound like much of a hardship and granted you don't want to you know go overboard but i thursday night where it was a night that happened during a football game is a little more important than a tuesday night or even a saturday night would send a little bit more of a message  the buyer in the saturday but the the there is but there are there's also and you know it is a special also of like the restaurant and there's a restaurant in that so that that this isn't just this is but it definitely sounds like it was better than thursday and it is a busy time we're shopping so i mean i we can we can pontificate over what day it's going to be all night long but i think to just you know speed things along i think and more discussion i'd like to have more discussion on saturday because i think tuesday just you have a motion already don't you know no motion yet and i just don't see the sense i'm doing on a tuesday and i don't you know to go in a direction where it's over punishment i don't think you're going to get there by morning a tuesday to a saturday and i just keep going back to the letter was sent you know the person that was there looks like she's a young teenager doesn't get any simpler than that you know i really don't so that's almost laughable so you know going to a saturday verse a tuesday i don't think it's a hardship what about fears and what one of one of the issue you did a five day on barlow's protest because it was in the nature of the second offense now granted they were just outside the window but it was the border got it is the second because it was and i was a time for on the  showcase life and because they don't have they're not a bar that a restaurant the only open when they're having lunch and you know you couldn't pick a date because you picked a date then they simply wouldn't schedule of function and night  sanction would be meaningless so what you're settled on was you meant you left one function at the discretion of the chief and he had them close an hour early which is a substantial loss of revenue because you're talking a good sized crowd for that the maximum amount of time of the function then you'd closed and i were early on new years i mean which again is a substantial cost because presumably it's a special opening night for them and there will be a substantial main thrust of serving the alcohol they've been through training they understand the situation and they've reviewed it many times and based on the destructions etc that happened that particular night it was a mistake article was published in the fox report or a line in that a complaint was we conduct in the near future and during this compliance check the underage operative would be used in a massachusetts valid id for under twenty one driver's license which clearly states their subjects date of birth and also the date that they turned twenty one and then i to question the under a job would have entered the manner in approximately four four fifteen pm went to the bar the bartender asked if he could help her she produce it and she asked for be a yes for identification she producer under twenty one identification the button to look at it brought it over to a light to look at it further the telephone rang he answered it of the phone then went over and handed the id back to the operative asked if she wanted a bud light and what she can from it she did he then took a bullet from the cooler opened it and placed it in front of her and walked away short time later was a mistake made violation occurred there was a fairly quick recognition that there was a problem with the bartender came back and removed the beer now there is a violation no doubt about it but  clearly recognition made in a very fast manner and the situation remedied so i think was our collective opinion that a harsh punishment something on the order of what you just meted out to  scene it's probably not justified in fairness in the sake of consistency so you know i think we would think in thinking initially about a day and frankly it seems more like a night would be more appropriate given  the discussion that you just had something like that i think a day to deprive the business of they have both a very i feel lunch business with liquor and dinner and to deprive both  would i think be demonstrably harsher than what you did just did it's business as a ten year clean record so something like a night and i'm i'm speaking off the cuff i don't want to speak for the chief so i think you should hear from it as well because we haven't had a chance to go over this one establishment of a burnt from the experience and moving forward we've got something now on the record that does raise the stakes for she can i just so i can put it in perspective when someone says we've been in business for five years or ten years in never had an issue you know the know what you have if you have an issue unless you've been tested how often do you test a business that such as this year early at all at least yearly of the facilities you know during their operation ok so if someone comes in say we've been in business for ten years roughly they've been tested could be ten times i don't know knowledge of the specific numbers but  to close to study with families close on six well you know so you know something like that that sent the message and you know it is you know serves the purpose of denying know also so well they don't just like all of them they don't have to cause it just can't sell like a correct sort of right so i'm and i'm assuming now a letter of reprimand yes that so you can get it to go and you don't  to cover the cost of the police officer and juries involved to the town not to appeal to the a b c c and to take a look at a survey suspension on of selectmen will conduct a public hearing on tuesday november twentieth two thousand and twelve at nine p m in the town hall meeting room forty south street foxboro massachusetts soon to its licensing authority in accordance with massachusetts general laws annotated chapter one thirty eight sections twenty three sixty four and sixty seven and all amendments there to the purpose of the hearing will be to review and discuss information concerning alleged violations of chapter one thirty eight that occurred at the  which time the bottom to went over to the cash register printed up a receipt came back over to her and at that time he requested her identification which she produced yesterday she was twenty one she stated that she was not at the time he took away the beer and told he did not serve and it was sort of new news indicated that once again you get a situation where there was a definitive mistake made no disputing on but fairly quick recognition in this case and so once again i think in fairness and in the sake of consistency a standard packet of the terminations along with a suspension of short duration would be the appropriate and consistent application of the board's policy if i may comment by way of explanation not what by way of excuse what happened was that when the young woman came in and sat down at the bar there had been another young woman sitting in that exact seat for some time period before the bartender had reported when questioned afterwards that initially he thought it was the same person in it for those of us who have ever worked as a bartender your tendency when you're behind the bar is you're looking at the bar to see whether or not there's a drink in front of someone if you know that you've got a patron who's been there and you see there isn't a drink there the question gets asked what can i get you he was when he keyed the transaction into the register and turned around that he first realized this is not the same woman that was sitting there before and asked for the identification obviously the procedures kicked in he was able to recognize that she should be carted was and caught the fact that she was under age and took the beer back unfortunate potentially unfortunate for him because he was fired he was otherwise a good employee and an asset to the operation of the restaurant but zero tolerance as the as it must be and i can report to you that the bass pro shops because bluefin lounge is part of the best pro shops takes this very seriously i've had communications with folks from corporate headquarters on all the way on down everybody's taking a close are keeping a close eye on this to make sure that things are responded to correctly in addition i can report to the board that in addition to terminations of the parties or a number of other steps have taken place mr camerata who's been in the business for forty years and is absolutely mortified that for the first time in forty years there's a violation i suggested to him that yes there's no start over again but another forty years might be able to a longer career than he's in a in but while i make light of that it is not insignificant that this is a forty year experience that he brings to in front of the board and again it's it's  it's not the high hotbed for underage drinking it was an unfortunate human error misjudgment what have you they have they have also altered their practices it was before that if they thought someone was thirty or under they would ask for identification they've now increased that to thirty five not in the impracticality i'm not sure what the difference is between somebody who's thirty and thirty five but i think it makes the point particularly to the folks who work there that this is even more important in addition to that instead of just asking for identification personnel will will ask how old are you and then also ask for identification and i think that that's a that's an enhancement that will reap benefits because it's kind of like what they do with security at airports just when you have that conversation if somebody is going to live simply by giving an i d that's it's easy to hide behind that but if you've also got t verbalize the lie i think that's a much more difficult scenario so i think that that will help greatly in ensuring that mistakes don't happen again mr cameron has also attended the seminar conducted by safe id check  following this to just get the latest and greatest on what's going on and this area the practice is always been to have their folks tip certified now can continue so we find ourselves very willing to accept that there's a violation here and i know that that's important for the town and it's important for my clients as well to to just step up and said that they accepted this there's a violation obviously the recently and it's unfortunate that there's this run of violations and it's unfortunate we find ourselves here this a first violation for the bluefin and and obviously a first violation for the manager who's been in the business for forty years  we will accept a disposition similar to the one that just occurred before us and no need to reinvent the wheel would offer up tuesday december the fourth from six p m to closing the revenue from the below friend relationship to the bass pro shops store is minimal but we're talking about probably minimal revenue store you know look come into that you know i don't have i don't have the data to be able to tell you i don't come in sense tells me that as far as against the store revenue it's probably de minimus i will say however that the bluefin that well we have the operations manager for the store here the the restaurant itself is independently run if you will it's part of bass pro shops but it's run separate and distinct from the store it falls under the umbrella of the operations manager who believe they are they have to account to corporate themselves they have their own entity so while it doesn't seem like a lot they're also not serving a lot they're not generating a lot of revenue so any loss of revenue is significant to their operation just so it's a kind of a zero in discussion make a motion amenity for people who are there shopping so six to closing is essentially depriving them of the democrat for a night that's basically what the effect of this is whether it's an hour earlier that's what i want it should be like five i in the rain an hour earlier but i would suggest to you that given the fact that we're offering december the fourth and this is the height of the probably one of the biggest shopping times where they have more volume of people in the store that  effectively to want to half hours there is probably in excess of what the last restaurant would experience from their four hours of not having increased christmas shopping crowds and so forth so i think that that is not in it is not insignificant that they will lose those hours and that the net result is that they will be punished pretty harshly and as i've already assured you they take this very seriously i've got i've talked with folks from corporate on down everybody in the pecking order has had a piece of this and they're paying attention think i think that we should go with that the six o'clock so close and only for the fact that you know it's called the bluefin lounge when it's you know folks might go in there just to have a drink and maybe a little something and that they might you know have a drink while they're still in the middle a shop and whereas the mandarin you know they could go in there and actually you know he can still stay open for food which i don't know that these motion may second a further discussion i'm just going to not support it because i think there should be an additional hour to make it more consistent because the other situation they also recognized immediately that h words you know i just think in terms of impact feel like there's a little bit more put on them