pointed out recently counsel should have been put on some kind of notice that maybe there's something more going on going on here isn't there a presumption that the lawyer perform his duties that he's a presumption of the other litigation decisions so there wasn't a decision that was made the defendant when he was representing himself did not want to withdraw his plea and which makes common sense because it's  addressing your problem was building in motion to reduce some and if that conversation takes place let's just say it did take place for the purposes of my question he says no i just want them to reconsider my sentence and if she has reviewed the reporter proceedings of the guilty plea as the certificate indicates she's got to know it's a negotiated plea so why does she do something there i don't want to see unprofessional but it doesn't make any sense when you know more she must know the only way to get around this issue is to move to withdraw the plea so if he only wants to consider a sentence why does she ask the judge to withdraw because she can't do professionally what she he wants her to do the filing of the pleading requirement is not jurisdictional the you know you can this court has jurisdiction to consider the appeal from what you may be characterized as a proper motion but this in these cases and so that we know that the defendant was given the opportunity to follow the right emotion through counsel well going back to herrera that's when the final conclusion was that the certificate is what we look at it unless there's something not proper or something we don't look back at the record necessarily so what what should be on this certificate other than what's here from litigation that it's going on and on and on and and we need it says what most of the cases say but it creates two b if what you're saying is that when a council walks in on a on a defendant whether they know the person or not whether the attorney has personal knowledge of the proceedings or not there should always be a conversation out  what happened if the guilty plea where does that conversation only come up based upon the allegations in the procedure pleading i'm a little confused as to that because you're saying if you look at this the the allegations clearly it talks about the other driver or the black box things of that nature which might even pack could he have been proven guilty beyond a reasonable doubt or so do we we look at they ask or do we just always tell the tourney's when you walk into negotiate the exact terms of the ten year cap it's clear from the factual statement that there were two passengers in the defendant's vehicle and they were born willing to testify that he had been driving and he had been drinking there with breathalyzer tests so his actual likelihood of being successful in the trial would be very very well why should that be our concern because our concern should be the boss i don't particularly think what the defendant monitor didn't want the lawyer is that in order to get his intentions considered both at the trial court and on appeal he has to avenue of procedure is to file a motion withdraw illegally but i believe this is only inferred from the record that he didn't want to call for that so now we have a defense counsel who has a client who has filed motion to present his claims so she has carefully deconstructed way around the facts that she's getting her clients and i'm just relieved hearing on his motion to reconsider  well i think that you know she has been for him a very effective advocate and she's just been unsuccessful and we're in fact both of them who are alleged there's a motion to withdraw and a motion to reconsider sentence so we know that those are the issues that are being raised in the proceed motion we mean