and chooses not to see him that access still must be permitted on a mandatory basis because the client or his client or the fund cannot very fundamental oh and i interrupt you for one moment now at this point when this attorney arrives there was am am i incorrect advised him when she spoke to him that she was aware that in attorney had been there representing him and did he want to speak to her in light of that correct ok now this other lawyer is from a different he's not from that age that way and what you heard from the defen know i think that there's a lot more information that can go i mean why not have there's a lot of speculation that could surrounded this particular case and you've got the speculation throughout your brief as to what m confession was voluntary we have to take all of the circumstances into consideration that only this stuff with the lawyers but the statements that the defendant admitted having may with respect to his attitude toward the crime so defendant first of all it seems like if you go with what the judge kind of clue did the defendant didn't want to be the center of this was the defendant didn't want to be the one person stuck with this murder all by  he was there with multiple people and he didn't want to be the guy to fall back to the traditional fall guy for this murder he wanted some blame to be shifted to others and that's not an unreasonable you know here and there is also the possibility that it patiently defendants are overcome with guilt and they actually do want to confess so i mean i think that that's kind of part of the picture that the judge was  smoking and you know i don't know whether that's the point being if there were certain factual conclusive the court seemed to based on everything if heard so is it possible if you if you accept the fact that the defendant on and why would he want to necessarily go immediately back to view of tourney when he's on the trail of of getting the confession you know he's at the moment he made choose to go with police because of this kind of concern or that kind of concern generally in the area of police kind of pressure whether actual or are simply existing in the air as an issue of state due process we're not hamstringing the police when there is a lawyer at the station at four thirty ready to see that play and in fact well th telling her bad boy the defendant didn't want us that's correct and that's what the judge accepted as true the judge stated in his findings there is a reasonable explanation why the second attorney wasn't allowed to speak to mr bowers and that was on his own notion that just cable is one thing too why not make sure that if he's at the station it's axis but the problem is the credibility issue it's not as i mean couldn't couldn't there be a presumption well if you haven't got a confession many believe the first forty eight hours maybe the presumption is that he's being he's being he's under duress defendant just not raising in any way shape or the constitutional question i think it was appropriate for house will determine what the proper issues are and i would be happy to defend her in effect the house claim on a post conviction ok let's look at the he wanted to know what the caliber of the questions were he wanted to the police to know that he didn't want to get me to kill anybody innocent that he wasn't the true bad guy out there this is a defendant who wanted to talk to get his story out he didn't agree with the warrior because he feels terrible about what happened said he would be like an asshole to keep it all of self p j told detectives he wanted to keep talking so they would understand that may mean was the real bad guy out there p j states some and as for the macaulay question a caller requires that he be informed that his lawyer is present for him to speak with and we complied but there he was informed that the lawyer was there that's the finding of the judge and there is nothing credible in this record to call that into question as a matter of well the question is whether back credibility call should be viewed with closer scrutiny than credibility credibility time when the when the attorney is there so that the policeman knows i'm close to getting it out of him now if i tell him that the attorney is there it's going to distract you and god knows if he's ever going to want to talk again and of course he for both of you i should say this right now that the briefs that you prepared were able briefs and that a lawyer in this case has met all of our expectations but also you get the last word going to squelch quite a large percentage of the confessions that the police stop paying and it's not something you have to do when the attorney is head is off this even if it's all of this is a half a block away