would be any public monies coming at this other than seventy five percent fewer but i had trouble explaining to him what more he could possibly offer but above and beyond this letter so he offered to come in and him from the board specifically if there is more you'd like to see than this letter that was available two weeks ago you know at this point it looks like he'd have to front you over twenty five percent of the fletcher fines it says that closing you will pay us x amount of money and then that check passes over the you know the lawyers do their thing and i check goes from one hand to the other and you know i've done a few closings as assumed it doesn't seem to  yeah doesn't work for me so we're we have with next step and then you know when you're waiting to hear what response from them yeah pretty much sat was hey can you give us an idea of how can we sign these and then move along to get price of the house the value of the house you know that the big check at the end i guess i will still come to us but there was a reassuring language in there that that can happen within ten days but that's for two hundred thousand so i think one thousand from fema and fourteen goes on to fletcher and we retain the seven and if we if we pump the money on the transactions so this whole proposition is based  last year we need all the money up front or to leave and then we get it back later that is it the how much later is the outcome so so we're fronting twenty eight not certain yes but we know we're going to get to twenty one again i'm sorry yeah skip dinner tonight and i'm having trouble following oh no it's not it's hard to follow i mean him but we'd be out they give us the paperwork saying well we'll give you twenty down the road just like they did with the other give us twenty one down the road yeah seventy five percent or home at the end of this he still will use the town seven thousand worth of demolition here last when it is gone and the house the big check for two hundred thousand for the house comes in from fema if that's what he gets one hundred  course nothing against you or you as a person always always there make sure we're covering the towns behind it we never get stuck with i feel not the force of it would be your intention but we've got to treat everything that way because we're going to be there and so we're kind of talking about this having that twenty one the demolition of twenty eight there are seven left and we don't like it stuck with a seven we haven't heard from the team in a while about how this all works none of us have done anything like this before it has never happened our town before when you say seven left you mean statewide or no i'm we know you want to go along there so i wish we had more news for you but we had it just fine i just yeah i was just curious to know all i was i didn't know if there were some hang ups going on you know on there and so i was i was getting a little nervous  into demolition people yeah i think any and he informal don't solve anything right yet and he got yourself an idea of how the cost would be to yeah exactly and that's and that's that's i guess my biggest concern going forward  is trying to nail down you know hopefully whatever contractor we get won't go over this sort of magic number hell for any of us involved but i have had luck on connecting with a resource they expressed interest that they didn't think they could do it right away salvage so that's that's an option and they do anything like fix the hole too they can do the equipment anything is really just a part make what they want i think they take all the materials but i imagine there's there's going to have to be somewhere where we fill in the holes well are there before us yesterday the i don't think there's any question ripley for meets the criteria for amount of profit organization it seems to me that falls to whether the real question is whether we meet the criteria of why that requires if it it seems to me if we make if if it seems to you to be a reasonable a reasonable case there's nothing lost in going to the state and a lot to be gained for for both well written those others i've dealt with them and you can talk to a lot of different people and get a different opinion but i think i think our troop rotation is the correct one but ask awesome say a few words sure again i do hope you  that maple leaf form was not entitled to the statutory exemption because it had a health related purpose and for the reasons i have set out in the letter i th fletcher farm case is not something i think that anyone wants to be relying on terribly heavily it's it's an old case it's a nine hundred seventy nine case it's one of the shorter remote supreme court decisions it really doesn't explain  its understanding of the statute it really seems to have been decided on the basis of the fact that the the property owner who was applying for the application just haven't submitted enough evidence about what they did at their property and because they had failed to meet their a property is a health facility that is not entitled to the exemption and one was is the plan parent good case which i explained and that's that it was the planned parenthood office in burlington and the court went into a very detailed very complex discussion trying to figure out what the in the legislature intended when it talked about a health facility not to being examined and decided that what they really meant was health had to do with medical procedures and diagnostic procedures and looking at what planned parenthood did at its burlington facility had decided that based on both square footage and on patient visits  the the vast majority of what they did at that facility was counseling and therapy and not medical procedures surgery surgical procedures or diagnostic procedures and therefore it was not a health facility and was entitle to the property tax exemption and then him the m c h feed medical center hospital vermont case which was decided in  nine again the hospital just to make common sense reading of the word sounds like a health related facility of the court decided for purposes of this statute it was not  a health related facility because there are other sections of the statute that specifically referred to hospitals as being exempt including their counseling and therapeutic functions  guess that those are really the points i want to leave you with is the fletcher form case really isn't solid precedent for judging what make believe form goes on its property and based on the two cases that do go into detail and discuss the law and its intention the planned parenthood in the m c h be cases based on the the the facts the bill presented in his application oh well how the property is used what patients are there and how the property is used it really doesn't qualify as a health facility and therefore is entitled to the statutory property tax exemption  that we're i think we would have been in this position a couple of years ago but the fact is that last december we changed our medical model to one that is that there's not rely on medical staff we're not providing the same kind of medical services that we were a year ago and i think our position will be the same because they were but they were there was a much greater amount of money and space sometimes being spent on medical actual medical services then than there were now but we the state funds about seventy five percent of our patients and they were not willing so we we want to what's called now a clinically managed model which where basically people or if they need to be clear cleared before they come to us there's still some medical services being provided but as you see in the application it's about about two percent of the space that make belief is devoted to that and it's a little bit like point two eight percent of the time so it's it's pretty clear that the bulk of our property here is by plaintiff's own statements of therapeutic community residence which is defined under cites the statute includes the statute now i don't think there's any dispute that maple leaf farmers licenses and therapeutic community residents and the court did say is pure the properties being used for health or recreational purposes the property is by plaintiff's own statements of therapeutic community residence no it's a short case  so i'd i'm not persuaded to that this is not precedent when the court says it is clear that the property is used for health or a creational purposes and by plaintiff some because implying next sentence the property here is by plaintiff's own statements of therapeutic community residence no the plaintiff fail to meet its burden to show that it was not a health food facility that's true on the record below  but it seems to me clear that under fletcher farm a thirty community residence is a health facility for purposes of thirty eight thirty two so c as for planned parenthood my reading of planned parenthood is significantly different they do indeed discuss that to meis the like only  interpretation set forth by the taxpayer planned parenthood and accepted by the trial court is both reasonable and consistent with the meaning of the statute as a whole referring to thirty and thirty two subsequent and here's what the taxpayer contended that the court accepted the quote i just gave the taxpayer contains the contents of the plain meaning of the word health issues in the statute we first principly to a condition of being free from disease or injury under this approach activities related to the prevention of pregnancy would not be considered healthy activities because they are not directed primarily at preventing or curing disease or physical injury i would never suggest the pregnancy was  the court clearly saw it distinction pregnancy is not disease and preventing it is not preventing injury or disease so that's what the case turned on was whether pregnancy handing of birth control pills and prescribing and planned parenthood in this case did for ninety five percent of the security so the question is whether the activity at maple leaf farm under planned parenthood is director primarily of preventing or curing disease or physical injury at least physical injury   here's what the national institutes of health put allegiance he says quote drug addiction what is drug addiction addiction is a chronic often relapsing bring disease that causes compulsive drug seeking and use despite harmful consequences to the addicted individual to those around him or her although the initial decision to take drugs is voluntary for most people the brain changes that occur over time that several change that pattern and as they say it chronic and often relapsing bring to seize alcoholism which you also tree is also addressed by the n h and has a medical diagnosis of its alcohol use disorder to do and i can just refer you to page six twenty three of that decision what they really had to do which reconcile the specific exemption for hospitals so stated in thirty thirty two six with the exception to all of that in thirty eight thirty two seven and what they said i don't have it here on page six twenty three they actually got to their decision the object was to not reach an absurd or rational result how do you reconcile pieces of the statute that is presented as a conflict and you obviously don't construe them to be absurd because as you know as a matter of law the legislature is deemed not to do anything of cert we'll just leave that one on the table but that's what they were doing there they weren't opining on whether what the meaning is under thirty eight thirty two subsets of health or recreational facility they were reconciling that with the specific exemption for hospitals in the immediately preceding so section of the statute so as not  if they couldn't imagine in that case if they could imagine that the legislature intended to gag decades and decades old tax exemption which is still a law they didn't race that section six the gave hospitals the exemption they could also and i don't think they did they could also set the specific controls in general so the specific exemption for hospital controls a general statement but often recreational  pointed to this exemption it's an exception to exception which will throw the the accepted accepted people back into being tax exempt again but that's the buildings they also exempted skating rinks you can almost see the lobbyist walking the hallway on those two things but i certainly don't think that was intended to and in c h would support me and this was intended to create the absurdity of saying earlier in thirty eight thirty two subsequent that you don't get the tax break without a vote if you use primarily for health purposes and then turn around and say yes you do because it would be an off just one question are you open to all comers regardless of ability to pay were open we well there are limits to what we can do we offer a scholarship program within our means so we do offer services to people who do it would we do not have the ability to pay us we don't do that in a limited way or we'd be out of business but were paid by through medicaid through a grant for the uninsured from the state private insurance and private pay and we have a small as i said to t on not exactly like that but we do certainly offer thousands of the tens of thousands of dollars of free care  repeatedly refers to the open to all comers regardless of ability to pay standard to define a charitable organization who i conclude i can't play with my own personal position is never expressed this to the board before my reading of the application you submitted referring to your doing clinical treatment in the thirty two to some for them and it seems to me that just as this has gone to a town vote in the past a change in her from medical treatment to clinical treatment never your house or this is every town this is your business i understand that but my job is to be a steward of all the tax dollars in round numbers here forty fifty thousand dollars is kind of what if you're not if you're not tactics down to something that could go towards the town's infrastructure and so why i brought this up for a town discussion last time and put it on the ballot is because i was always i didn't think many people knew  help you know that this situation you know i think you know they voted i think every five years for the exemption for for you guys up there for it was in ninety nine and it was the last one i think there's a subsequent after that but i don't know how many people are usually aware of that not many people go to town meetings so it was it was a good time to discuss what the relationship was with to hertz's and with mabel the farm you know you kind of i think austin and i think you mentioned think it's up to us to put it on the ballot i think it's up to you to get it on the ballot and appeal to the townspeople and convince them that oh oh why the you know arm you know select board and it didn't mean i'm not i'm not sure what that understanding was but again that puts such a responsibility on the three of us saying hey this is this is this should be on it and i'm not convinced that it that it should be you know term that you guys should go back with our comments and look at them and see if you have a good rebuttal to him and maybe there's a way we can proceed because the town this is a hard place with that and you budget and with the local budgets we have to increase our grand list and reduce our costs and dollars so everything's on the table you know that's where we stand used to be that you would deal with the listers in the board of civil authority they set the grand list they made the determination of exemptions and it was really done on the local level but with the state wide education towns face the rest of the will second guess that can have bad consequences and i've had the same experience the states are very reluctant to take a position one way or the other so towns are forced to make decisions at their risk that way but i i put it recently sentenced with with another nonprofit that the states understanding that they have to be a little more helpful in helping towns get through these decisions and i actually ga guideline for how to get stuff on the ballot petition to share books that's just business but i'm really upset that i was told that it would be put on the ballot nobody said i had to collect signatures i would work on this for the last four months i knew i had to cut signatures for this signatures so i did let's discuss that too i mean that's all our discussion here i hear you and i know you send us your paper i need to collect it how many do i need cher guys now for the ground freezes in do you have those type a no parking danger it is not something we have to buy pretty on would see but you can't we can't put two there it didn't work we need them every it's going to work crazy but it's just such a problem in and it'll be a bigger season up there than we've ever seen before so if you can and i in your room yeah sure you've got the revised version which includes stuff from last time yeah we talked about but all that and i had a long chat with sarah we went through all our points some of them she agreed yes actually covered elsewhere so on and others i talked in and the one thing that did come up which is not in my draft and i like sears i easily get closer to the ramp with their van you know their hydraulic van and then when the person is no longer with us they'll pull that off and put it back the way it was do they need an excess so here is what this this is madness there has to be a way through this what syria has suggested is language to this effect i'm quoting and be put in the permit section where you just say you permit not required  exceed three months on a case by case basis it also takes care of construction people you know the actual driveways going to be able to hear it but the only place you can get in that huge excavator to make the basement whole is over here you know that kind of thing conversation with the underhill jericho fire department whose standards actually come from the national fire protection so she can do may come up i learned that the only one vehicle is not one of the big ones that has four wheel drive the rest of the two will drive to give me a radius and he gave me their slope requirement and here's what charlie said about the dealer be the underhill jericho fire department has a stricter road policy than our regulations we routinely if not automatically lateral to my tree house and call that a driveway and if i can get them back you know if i can get the fire truck there and i can get the propane truck there and i burn up in my tree house it's my business and who are you to town to tell me what my job was supposed to be like i want to hide to my house i want to do this to my house i want it and i have a rebuttal because at some point you're going to sell your tree house and the next person is not to be able to get the public services they're expecting or you're going to need fuel in your tree house and those sold by the fur department the we were just chatting it up plan a so you know you don't want your tanker truck at twenty six thousand pounds or whatever it is sliding off the driveway in the middle of winter because it's too narrow a radius and i said and i said let never meant mind the propane guy from patterson he said it's happened they had a propane truck not make it up to try a winter drive we slide off that which place to place becomes a mortgage of all because people want to know that or if you keep quiet about it then you've got a hidden defect and all hell breaks loose of it happens duty to war and all that kind of good stuff and therefore you feel it's the town's responsibility who i guess who go i mean it's there for us the town's respons the statute that gives us the authority is israel on the level of title eighteen section eleven eleven and it says the purpose of this authority is safety it doesn't mention personal autonomy or back to the land  or not that difficult to meet you know i mean if you're building inside a mob so you're going to have problems with them but if you're building in normal place you know it's straightforward interesting mr rogers here last time we met said what is faced into their mountainous you know so look to space in which i have a buy machine is ten percent mo twelve percent for fifty feet either is ten  stop yet there is one other thing i did there that you should know that differs slightly from last time we have said an access permits good for one here and people want it longer than that in five years for suggested because the d r v takes a long here's what i did i said it's good for three years unless it goes to the d r v in which case five years ok does that work ok otherwise pretty much are you sure you are you comfortable with getting into those boards and getting feedback whatever you know listen to their feedback you get feedback we can add yes towards it if somebody knows this too far out on the road in there's a character on up the hill and they were to go out around it and they were to catch a shoulder that leg or that day that was the one that was against us or if it ever comes up you know i know you got some time here but at the same time you are making a plan that is nice to show if there's any way to lower the cost but if you can ever get a number on it it think it's a good idea to rebuild it what that costs and i'd be interested  be what it's going to be to do the right amount of mileage in a given period period of years to get everything for gravel roads and highways paved roads those numbers do come with a particular segment be so so we've all come up with this plan based on getting more on top of a road in a six year period you know i mean that's that's kind of what we're looking at here is very expensive to get on top of our roads in a six year period you know do we do this planet do we say well let's make a what i mean i also don't think we can go twenty four inches down we don't have the money i just don't see how this is going to fly next year because of the legislature has a lot on its plate for the education fund and i don't think they have the will of the way to change anything so we're probably looking at ten percent increases on the education side i know we should we shouldn't be looking at that but we have to look at how much capacity our citizens are able all that often i'm happy to do that we as a group need to gauge what we think we want to go to the voters with do we want to go with that expensive fix it fast plan or the keep the key and in this with this this has been kicking the can down the road flat or two percent this year or we say hey happy new year taxes are up fifteen percent and we're going to fix it all in six years which do you want to see as a taxpayer not as  number three spend it all all but we're not doing less work i think even if we do anything we're going to do more work than we have been in the past next year like digging ditches and doing all that stuff i mean i mean i big fixed are going to require shipping in twenty years the ten one will last ten years so you you want to because if we ship in every ten years discussing this twenty dollars or twenty twenty dollars every twenty years the other one is going to cost us sixty dollars for twenty here is what the actual tax effect is i know what i paid in town taxes last year i got that just for check for fifteen but i don't know what this means in terms of an increment to bad not you know calling flatly internet wasn't all those calls it was it was people been here a long time with big pickup trucks and complaining about the road so it's kind of what i have you know did but but we can't go there w and the way people budget is you want people flatland last year or something like that right and you basically look at what these numbers need to be to not raise taxes and we can also look at that number that's just a numbers game and then you're left with  and then you know what with this stupid target percentage increase and then we start shopping at the number that we use of the school board if we just ask the business manager tell us what it takes to reduce the budget by one the number that level francis will thing and then we will say we have eighty thousand and then places you get a quarter mile and a half or whatever and then we know that's what we're doing and then we can plug that back into the plan which we should go to the voters with mike plan say hey so in fifty years your road might be really good or actually they won't be any better they're going to be how they are for the next fifty years with a plan or a release people know then this is how we came to know you're going to have the same probably roads you have now because you can't afford know we have a point we have a plan on going out now and how long it's going to take if you mean he's not even i think we'll be doing so little that point you never have a plan of catching up they'll never be right but that's a good understanding  there under the understanding it's not permanent i think you know that would be particularly temporary temporary temporary you know they sign off on that and therefore something like this you can go and do that so on that conversation are we all come through with letting  the end there in there is of course public meetings on those articles too so everybody can talk about the different issues so there's an educational period for those that are interest like to make a motion to accept six pm to say october twenty eighth two thousand and fourteen slick board meeting that is just pause for a second  the movers property line i think i can give you this see you yes seventy four showed you should be approved to be seventy one standard of the voters so this is very directly for me put the words in your mouth like the voters are asking for something to be brought back they're asking to have a put on the ballot next time and not being asked for mr young to put it on the ballot but asking us agree now what i said to him tonight is you'll put it on the ballot we're taking that back it's all my fault i started the last meeting not that i was here to do what i do the same way i mean i felt the same way i did i thought that i was hoping that caused by putting out there but as we all read this tonight we feel that it is our duty to put down their correct right right i think that's a fair reading of the poll so i am happy to reach out to bill if you guys are violent and i think you'd appreciate it coming from you i  this game today the jericho select board like to meet with the underhill jericho fire department and they reckon that we do the meet with them at the same time to talk about but not least here falls the engineering firm that did the study for the for the three structures in voice of forty one hundred eighty five and no where to put we didn't vote on this where they're coming from rochester probably travel take tea our fellows invoice for the hydraulic studies on the road corporate rudimental road for a total of four thousand one hundred eighty five dollars out of the select means contingency for second