hi this is bill safer your host of hidden treasures and welcome to another episode this is w c c a t v coming to you from its studios and downtown wester it's visible on cable in hellos to some of our viewers hello to julie's but a milk bar in paxton i met julie she's a sweet woman who makes the most delicious and phenomenal cookies of any shape of form you can think of with icing her cookies have a sale at new takes at the barn and paxton owned by linda could stop less who has been a guest on this show two times you can get a double treat by visiting new t x at the bon and buy a delicious cookie when you leave so you'll have a double fun it's really great to go there hello to bob's barber shop at eleven o four pleasant street a tatic square and were star bob simone of it is the owner and has been at this location for a long time fantastic haircuts at very reasonable second oldest business and was to after the hardware store that recently closed so i like to say oh hello kristen schaal the owner and staff amanda brad you can take you all your framing needs to and it's worth a visit i also want to say hello to two audience members who are viewing the show today child's death because they areon who is on the board of w c c a t v as a mom i and produces and will be producing the show and also chad lowe who's assistant to mike with his homing pigeons ok now i'm going to introduce my very special guest mike leavitt detail and he's going to tell us and answer questions about homing pigeons a lot of things aren't known about homing pigeons and people think that they were you know we stay set up trap park and bring them home but it's totally different and mike thank you for coming thank you for having me you're welcome now this is interesting because we have some homing pigeons that we're going to show the audience a little later and mike said that he can hold them so you'll get to look at them and you'll see that totally different from regular pigeons now what is a homing pigeon basically it's a it's a pigeon designed to to be released into you can send messages with the basically they they have a home and they know where they live and they're that if you and you make them happy in their home they'll return oh ok now how much do they cost i understand there's a big variation yeah there is i mean you can get you can get some pigeons like your just basic common pigeon if you would buy off a breeder you know for twenty to fifty dollars but they can range anywhere from like the pedigree ones for their their parents won races or shows those can range anywhere from one thousand to ten thousand dollars for ten thousand you know how it's amazing and so there's money to be made then with homing pigeons but a lot of people just do it for the hobby right or does everybody race them not everybody racism but a lot of people get into the racing because there is a lot of money in racing that i think would be fun yeah and can you keep them at your home yes that's where i have my you have my coop outside of my house that's where most people have them and like mike who can hold up to about two hundred pigeons but i have right now currently about thirty five thirty five pigeons and that was my next question should you have more than one for the have to do to get it to go from another place back home scientifically there's they've been trying to figure out why no one pigeons returned home and some scientists said that they were found a chemical in their nose which is the same kind of chemical that i mean in their beak which would be the same kind of chemical that being a compass to determine you know north south but it's no really way to be sure exactly why they do what they do to return home and how they know but to get him to return home you have and you buy them as young and then you keep them you know a chair in your coop and you kind of you don't let him out for a couple weeks you kind of let him see the area in feel it out and then after a couple weeks to have him you kind of let him out on their own and they won't take off they'll just fly to roof or fly around into a tree real quick and just check out the area they do that for about a week before they actually the start flying for about forty five minutes to an hour in circles around your property and then they'll fly right back in the cell then this settled into their coat yeah now say for example if you wanted one to go from your home to my home how do you do that you'd have to train him at both places you'd have to train him at my house and that that's his home a lot  know and you have to train your house as well that's takes a lot more training than training them just to be no one location oh so i'm so you could take that pigeon basically up to new hampshire right and let it go and it will come back home yes they'll come back to my house  i have heard that they've tracked some homing pigeons going as far as a thousand miles or more yet and find their way home it's amazing you know some mice are a documentary about some like they don't really know exactly how they navigate i've heard what you like you mention about the bee and some think they use the magnetic field of the earth yeah there's a lot of arrow series but they don't know exactly know because and it's really amazing because i'm lucky if i can find my way to  supermarket never mind you know thousand miles away are they different varieties of homing pigeons yeah there is there is is many is more there's more breeds and there are breeds of dogs is really yeah there's hundreds of different kinds of pigeons now could you explain about the difference between a homing pigeon and a regular pigeon homing pigeon will is a domesticated pigeon that will basically live to be about ages of fifteen years old and a regular street pigeon they'll live to age like five years old at the most because there's so many more dangers out there form they don't eat correctly they don't parasites right so they're not their cousins but they're not the same breed no they're far from now are they raise most of the homing pigeons that you see domestically raise through the generations in other words someone just doesn't didn't go out and trap a homing right  meant the pigeons i have in their family line you will never find anywhere back as far as you can go where they were living as on the street you know as a wild pigeon all their family members have been pedigree have been you know through through times like the a k c for a dog you know the pedigree of the papers right basically and now you said you were a member of a club i believe yeah so there are homing pigeon clubs or  vary from you know english trumpeters pigeons to german pigeons all different kinds where the in h p a which is what i belong to it's just homing pigeons that do the racing and do they have any clubs in massachusetts any small clubs are those the yet they have some clubs every almost every state has their own little club but they all belong to one big club oh yeah it's almost like the sportsman there's individual sports and clubs and they all belong to the west the county le right now if you if you need information and you have a question can you contact by computer one of those big clubs to get information like what my pigeons doing this or is it sick or things like  that mainly the fact that you want to go online they don't really answer any any of that kind of stuff they're more asking like to ask them the quiet of questions like when your races are in to get bands because you have to be in your pigeon right in order to get into the races and so that a race would be basically a lot they have a youngster's race in for young birds like this year's birds and then they have an old timers race which is for the older birds and the both they were kind of the same way everybody meets up at a certain area and they all release their pigeons at one time and then at home on your coop you have a clock and your pigeon would fly home and go into the coop and it would transfer on to the clock on the timer and it would tell you how long it would from point a to point b and they calculate that for where people live and how many miles away they are to see whose bird was the fastest and then you can win your prize and so people bet on the pigeons like  so so there's money to be made as well and some of the pigeons i understand like we're talking about could be quite valuable almost like you said ten thousand dollars for something for more or more so just like a horse if a horse keeps on winning and winning and winning in the pigeon keeps winning and winning and winning and their offspring become more valuable because they're the they're the champion sire right like osiris like that just like dogs if you have a number one german shepherd who goes to a dog show and wins first prize every year that his his offspring is going to be worth more than the dog that came in third place every year now when pigeons when the race is depictions when because of their specific breed but do they all have an equal chance they all have a basically equal chance per say it's all in the training and what how often you train them how much exercise you get just like with anything you know the more time you put into it the more you're going to get out right made birds four or five times a day and i gave up my job and did that then you know it would be lucrative for me to do it but i'm just kind i just do it for a score yeah you know so but that's what most people do it for and  it's a little known segment of keeping birds you know you hear people having parents and love birds and finches and all that stuff but homing pigeons are unique because they're out of the cage they're actually finding a target they're also being ok could you put it on yank that spot he's a little known i see a little nervous because but he's a he's a known as a black eagle that's beautiful color now that sheen on the feathers which is almost changes color is that natural for these type of the yes yes they have their feathers are oily somewhat oily nothing that you can see but there if you would like chop water on them it would be dried off because you know that they do all that white stuff and they can't get wet and hold them down and what type is that again this is a black eagle homing pigeon wow now what would one like that cost that's experience this one his his actually his mother won for first prize races and i actually got this from a very very good close older friend and i got a really good deal on this bird but usually he would probably go for about five anywhere from five hundred six hundred dollars around there oh ok and thank you that's beautiful bird and now we have another one portuguese pigeon and they always this variety of pigeon always looks like this yes yes yes yes they have one other ones where the fulbright english as this as you see the little thing over his head they call it and they would have feathers across his feet along the bottom of the feet now this one seems a little more gentle yeah these are show these are more of a show bird these are not reasons to fly for for speed these are just for show oh wow and but they are still under the homing pigeon no this is very this is the n p a this is the national pigeon association oh ok these wouldn't race these would just go to the beauty shows moral as they are mad i mean you could see the toft and everything yeah they call that actually the trust that's what that critical part of world war one and world war two and this is the fact of using homing pigeons to deliver messages that were critical to winning the war or losing the war and could you tell it saved one hundred ninety four troops and delivered a message to them and there were three pigeons sent and they that were and they were fired upon by germans but there were three pensions pigeon sent the first two were shot down and killed and the third amy she was sent he was sent over in shot through the through the breast through the wing and had its foot hanging off by just the tendon and still deliver the message while getting fired upon going through about twenty five miles of field getting fired so the message came across and the men were saved yes and that pigeon i know they would reward the pigeons with a medal did this one receive a medal yes yes he did it not sure how to i went through a couple of american pigeons they went through basic training with me and what ticks no but they they were invaluable to the army and i want to ask you a couple a question that we want i'm sorry that one pigeon though is it the smithsonian still now today and it's stuff that people so anybody could go see if you have no interest only and see it it's stuff that there was a couple of i heard of a pigeon i don't know the name but i just happened to read the story about a pigeon that also delivered in world war one a message to general pershing who was black jack person was the commander in chief of the war and despite terrible odds it also got shot flame guerre like i was saying before you could put a slice of bologna around the neck and they don't know what they're having but it's a great a on and to the country who owns them yet they'll go through anything to get home just to get home they'll do anything they the homing pigeons you know every hobby has memorabilia from time immemorial going back and i did read that the homing pigeons have been around since the ancient romans yes things in princes used to have a it was very rare for a like a common man to have one so they were the things of royalty yes i did read about some pigeons in india that would relay message from the sultan who was the king to the princes and the other his subordinates in the different places all by pigeon even had special mosques one pigeon would go to only one mosque another want to go to a different one so the right people could get the right messages i mean astounding and all through this time they had it and there was one said it's a three thousand years old the sport of homing pigeons that's remarkable now the memorabilia that comes with them i understand could be worth a lot of money  like could you talk about some of the pouch is in capsules and timing devices i mean it was they have a very very very were a lot of money really yeah the older ones yes even the new ones if i want to buy a new clock they're about twelve hundred dollars so so it would be possible for someone to see one for sale at a yard sale or flea market with the own and not really knowing you know what it is i've seen that i've seen people selling it it's not sure what this is and ended up being and stuff like that like an old pigeon timer and that's something now the harnesses and the capsules that they carry the messages and have you seen any of those just on line i've never actually seen any myself like held them or anything but i understand if you find them and it says in the thousand dollars you just you know how often you going to find a homing pigeon harness or a carrier or something like that now could you explain about what you mentioned banding yeah what other numbers on there it's serial numbers for this bird and this bird only so if somebody found delaware it could get back to you yes you would call you would get a hold of n p a online they would run its number and they would know it belongs to me now if they're in delaware and they just took the pigeon and put it up in the air would have find its way back to you or that's too far that's far i mean it's a possibility but i mean because it does have its instinct to go home it's a possibility but survivor survivor skills  has yeah oh yeah because it's used to eat me feeding them every day so to survive on its own it's not going to go down and get a worm you know its own that's like the domestic cats you know if they're not a barn cat they don't rush mice they don't know what to do right that's why it's first objective when you release it and it's not here it's home is to go home i got to go he knows that i was very poorly is his food his friends his wife his kids you know just like us and do they get mad when the in laws come over for thanksgiving  now homing pigeons you mention food homing pigeons need special food yes they do yes there's a special food it's actually called pigeon food browns makes a great pigeon feed that i use so it's not like bird seed you see now have you let's see oh yeah this is a question i want to ask you do you know about the maximum weight that they can carry i mean i know they carry messages but i've heard they've even  used to carry drugs yeah those are the pigeons i want on the bad side but how much you think they could carry i know no one knows exactly but i mean i would say i i would say up to about ten to twelve ounces maybe right he's not a bald eagle flying right little pigeon but i i was so you have you heard if you heard about it was news to me that they used for drugs yes it's a place i've heard of that i've heard that i've heard even on  the street corners back in the day where the mobs would use them and they would attach their drugs to if the police would come in they'd throw the bird in the air the bourbon fly home with their drugs and they would have nothing on him so they going to get in trouble so if the pigeon did something wrong to the mob break their wings probably now say for example you want to breed them is that an easy process or is that a common process yeah yeah that goes along with  raising them is the breeding like sometimes he'll if you're try if you're into the racing or if you're into the show it breeding works both ways because you'd want to fast mom with a fast add in you could put them both together and after a couple days of being stuck in the same so you put them in a separate game with them in a cage together alone and you know to shut the door so the whole guy from new jersey doesn't get in on the action right exactly but like with so pigeons there you'd want see if you want you know like this one's a cross between a portuguese and english some people do that and they'll take this beautiful english tumbler and this english tumbler but they both have one has a beautiful crest one has beautiful feet feathers so they'll breed them and hope to get one with both of the good yes do they do they make an actual nest or do they use part of the cage as the nest if you take they need some kind of nesting they'll they'll literally if you let him out to fly the father if he knows that babies are coming hilde try to find grass or hay nearby or if usually i'll just take them put in my coop i would just throw a little hay on the floor and he'll build the nest for the wow of the mother you know he builds he constructs the nest the male now i understand that when pigeons are newly born or very young the mothers feed them with something called pigeon milk or yes it comes out of their like this now you know yeah so they digest food and basically regurgitate it up for the babies the father does the same thing the father and the mother both milk the child that's amazing now it's funny because i have heard the term pigeon milk years ago i never knew what it meant i looked for some achaz but they haven't to hatching is about seventeen days and then after hatching tell five weeks after it hatches that five weeks old it's ready to start it's going to have full feathers it's going to be starting to want to go out and fly that's pretty quick yes five weeks now does the father and mother go out to find bugs or do they use the feeder you have they used to feed that so they're so used to that now would you how would you recognized you know in the wintertime with the climate can you still keep them outside yes they actually prefer the cold to the heat they'd rather have grilling season in the hot season yes so you can keep them in their coops that you face on the outside ye negative degree weather out i mean typically you want three walls in a screen wall in this kind of new england you want four walls in and in a row so that is a protection right there right everything else they can handle right is on their four walls and a roof or three walls at the least and a roof there that's great now how many did you say you have i have thirty five thirty five and some eggs so that's great well mike we're coming to the end of the show you see how fast it goes yes  like to thank you very much for coming and incubation period having me we learned a lot today i hope our viewers learned a lot about homing pigeons and maybe you'll see some memorabilia at a yard sale in flea market maybe you'll even want to get into the hobby if you have any questions from mike you can send them in care of the station once again this is bill safer in a host of hidden treasures that you see see a t v in western massachusetts go out and find a