ask her family or some of them could be here tonight so this was the evening we selected and i'd like to read that and and then the family would like to make some comments and then we'll vote on the resolution so it's a resolution recognizing and honoring the service of city council patricia you nowhere whereas the and one who was known for her deep devotion to the community and where as councillor no acts serve the people of south hurling to in various elected and appointed capacities for twenty three years and whereas during those years council no acts or five years on the city south burlington city council and whereas during her service on the city council council in nowhere presided as chair for over a year and whereas council on the pension advisory committee for five years and where as councillor no act represented the city council and the city of south burlington on the burlington international airport commission for three years and where is councillor no x serves the state of vermont for four years as an appointee of governor james douglas to the vermont environmental board and whereas councillor know accept the state of vermont for two years as an throwing to rotary club receiving the prestigious paul harris award for outstanding community service and where is counselor no act was awarded the hometown hero award for outstanding  volunteer service by the united way of vermont and where is counselor know x server in the leadership capacity at the local state and national levels for the business and professional women's organization as well as chairing and orchestrating the vermont job expo for nineteen years and where as councillor no act served on the boards of vermont the red cross the vermont epilepsy association and as a member of the nominating committee of vermont girl scouts and where as counselor no x server on a multitude of boards foundations committees and organizations associated with the financial services profession and received numerous honesty hard work determination dedication and loyalty to her community and to her colleagues now therefore let it be resolved that on behalf of the residents of the city of self burlington the city council does hereby recognize and extends its deepest appreciation for count so no x server us and dedication to the residents of the city of self burlington whose lives are the better for her years of service and that counts so nowhere exemplified the commitment to volunteer isn't that leads to making a true difference in the community and let it be further resolved that we the members of council recognize and honor early cully no act for her come right or her grit her sense of for her hard work and for all she did as a team member with us for the betterment of our in its entirety in the minutes of this meeting of the self for only ten city council april sixteenth twenty eighteen and the recognition of council no acts services will be prominently displayed in the city her passing it happened way too soon she was a friend a colleague and a wonderful member of the council we certainly disagreed on different issues but we could always we always knew that at the end of the day we still could move on and deal with additional topics and not have a residual difference get in the way of really making so many decisions there were important for the city we will very much mister and we mourn her passing are there any other comments my mother as your resolution points out was an exemplary public servant and woman credible grace and class and environment that was not often conducive to doing so and i just wanted to be known that i find the timing of your vote to join when you ski in burlington in the f thirty five completely undermines anything that you have said in the previous moments and i find these actions extremely disingenuous on behalf of my mother i know that if this situation were reversed and she were still the chair of this council she would never choose to set the agenda the way that you have this evening that is all well i'm very sorry you feel that way it was not him and intention an agenda is intentional well i'm very it's a very conscious decision so i think it's something that you need  well it was not meant to demean your mother in any way so i'm sorry you feel that way and you meant to honor my mother you would have opened it to a public vote as they did in other cities and you would honor the people of this town and th city the way that she would have wanted to well we will have a hearing on that tonight and there will be comments are you saying that there was potential for a  haven't received that kind of and that's not our intention to see it's really to pass a resolution to support and join to other communities so to it so that three or four of you will decide for the entire community something that other cities were allowed to vote upon but i guess we can argue or discuss what a vote is for on something we've had numerous resolutions and actions and public hearings that have allowed us to understand the sentiment of the community we've had people running against different council members on that very issue and we did not get elected so i think that's is a way you can judge the communities some support of individuals actions or  which really prompt i just like to say i know i would not support this resolution on the f thirty five and i just want to say that my experience with all councillors have been very respectful and i think it's just an unfortunate circumstance of timing as to why it's being considered for that being the case i agree it is very unfortunate that it's tonight when pat's being honored but i just want to say my experience with every council on this body has been has been respectful beyond and if for some reason the doors are blocked and back out into the hallway and out to the front of the building and hide on to the parking lot somebody should stay in the building tom and i will be responsible for ensuring th don't for a gender review additions deletions or changes in order of the agenda items are there any i have one item two thousand and twelve for seventeen items seventeen discussion ok so seeing no other agenda items for a change five comments and questions from the public not related to the agenda some of the telephone contact information that inside so i gladly answer any questions it's really the same as last year's or the exception of the update of the child care and daycare cent hazardous materials information is a was in here is just a sample of what they look like they're always a year behind which makes it difficult sometimes but generally speaking so that you folks know there's always any facility that we go to there's always a copy of that information right inside the door for us all the emergency information relative to what chemicals and so forth are used in a building so that some of the more important stuff and we know that's always up toda versus stuff that's a year old but that's just how the reporting process goes in the state it's not very timely so i gladly answer any question that anybody has as you know this has to be approved by this board that authorized t city manager to sign it on his on your behalf and then we send it into the centralized collection point which is the c c r p c are there any questions how do we test this plant is there some sort of an annual test for sections of it every year well the interesting piece of it it's called a plan but it's really a template it's not such a plan that it's this is what we're going to do list every possible thing in there and it's  more of a prompt than it is a plan tell tells us who to call we obviously know who to call but this is a statewide template so  we do test certain portions of it we frequently train on portions of this all the police officers all the firefighters you mess people are trained and reviewed annually on  incident command systems and so forth the chair and the city manager and system city manager all taking me i c s training as we've offered it and so we get to answer your question we have to have well as the school department numbers that are in there and so forth you have shelter managers red cross and so forth but maybe i should do that but i just you know if you put data in a document you think it's real you severe power outage on heinsberg road and i don't want to say i know it by heart but i know that i need to get ahold of the school and i need to get all the david young right away and i picked up the phone called david young i didn't have to look at a plan or anything i know exactly what his phone number was and how to get a hold of him at two o'clock in the morning so we're fortunate that though we may be a big city we still have some small city characteristics about it and and so we pretty often know those people all these are just this this document is really a whole lot of reminders that are really good i guess when when the ceiling is coming down around you and you need to remember what to do this kind of process your way through it is there a standardized format for a contact list that each of the key you know leaders in the city has to have on their phone for every other this is just these are the numbers or get this that's what this in large part is let me but do you to have the same phone numbers emergency phone numbers for everybody that you need to reach that place the key numbers in this plan that are in your phone today that honestly i've never compared to the city manager but i suspect he has pretty much the same ones that i do know all of this city department heads are in my phone the school district ok which is so and i'm pretty confident that kevin's are the same way so i took the two years ago maybe it was really really interesting and and the school department participates in the training as well do they not they do they didn't that they did not that that certainly day and a little deep one thing i got out of it is that there there's a plan but given it depends upon the emergency and who the person in charge is there's a whole sort of question in process to really determine who ought to be the person in charge and it isn't necessarily like the city manager or say the superintendent it depends on what or the police chief for the fire chief really depends on what the emergency is and how they figure out what the the best  line of command is and so that's one part of the training which is really interesting i think it isn't necessarily what you think but it that's a statewide or a national platform  so i think they know what they're talking about it was impressive do me that the city really follow that and did the training and recognize that it varies and people were really comfortable with that when the police chief doesn't necessarily want to be in charge if it's if there's a better person to really make the decisions and clued the police when the how they needed it there was a training favre please signify by saying i i i thank you thank you chief it's not a problem but to see you as always and we will thank you very much ok i have seven is the council consider our request to add the penny for paths validate and the obvious ballot this initiative is proposing to establish a small long term funding stream with the purpose of closing the into a safe place in pedestrian infrastructure that connects neighborhoods schools parks city center places of business and public transportation as well as the paths of our neighboring cities and towns so specifically what problems we're trying to solve there's a lot of information on this slide you have a package that you've probably reviewed so i'm just going to hit on the two key points here we're trying to close the gap we have a lot of great infrastructure in south burlington but we also have a lot of gaps between that infrastructure and put ourselves on a path for a more strategic approach to building a truly likeable walkable city so historically we've of taken a more opportunistic developer centric approach where specific projects have come up and we've included bike in desperate infrastructure in those projects and that's really cost effectively growing our infrastructure we asked him some very sharp from the city however we think this is stained funding source will help kind of put us on more of a strategic growth path that aligns with the city prairi s more efficient use of our infrastructure maker community safer more dynamic in our city more cohesive in crucial the device can pedestrian community really wants to move forward trying to pull think that's crucial as well why now we know that the city has a lot of priorities and so we feel like this is kind of the heart of our presentation tonight city center there's a lot of work that's gone into it is going into the city center we feel like this proposal fits perfectly with that it helps connect the city of self production of residents to the downtown region and we think will help realize the strategic vision for the city second prioritising are economically and physically vulnerable citizens extrapolated from the us census data we've estimated that almost one system is going to be based on usage except g p s technology they're going to be data mining those bikes try to understand where they're being used you really feel like now is the time to connect and to close those gaps in south growing to make sure that the data suggests that you know moving forward south burlington should be a significant share of those additional hopes need the weather to cooperate to absolutely no argument here some of them will be at assessed and in the final point we have here is let's not get left behind we have significant investments in surrounding communities in two point in history and infrastructure this slide shows some of the key the south and work that they're doing which we'll continue to do to drive by q pedestrian traffic rate to our doorstep additionally an exciting new project is the and then lastly in this one is kind of in the works now when you ski is moving forward with about forty million dollars in infrastructure proposals to revitalize the main street corridor or completely redo the infrastructure that's on the ground these connectors in green are things that are already but you didn't plan for two thousand and eighteen and then the teal is stuff that's being planned  in the south burlington infrastructure specifically and then this is an other gaps that have been identified with local communities and over emotion for other communities around  can see there's a lot of work going on around us and a lot of work there that is needed and i just ask you if you go back to that picture it looks like most of the gaps are in self rolling to is that because we have a very active impaired committee and they've identified them and when you ski perhaps has not or so so i think that there there are some significant gaps in south so this is the end of the burlington bike path which comes in south burlington on weensy parkway and for anybody who knows this area on the east side of route seven we have a spectacular path however  t street this is looking south into shelter and looking north into south going to and for anybody who's ever biked on this street you know which section of the road i'd rather be you know to and have you noticed that the plows have already script up half the lines on the new route to your constructed road yet even though those roads those lines were like you know they they created they they they dug down well but then they put those a one on so yeah we've got a question  with this with this ballot initiative and the average impact to sell their annual him here here we go spear street and so just some of the things that are on this map this is giving you a sense for what we're looking at when we were prioritizing projects in addition to being we came here couple  years ago maybe over a year ago to talk about just the work that we've done to get feedback from residents but on this map showing existing infrastructure so we have the right path here in orange sidewalks and blue and there's a little bit of a trail system like it rocks and some other spaces but we want to really have stand out in this map is where some of those gaps are think we've talked about or showed this one in a slide already where there's a ga necessarily know how many people are in those multifamily it might just be a building or sometimes it's town homes but it does give you the sense of these are the connections that i think you would asked us at our last meeting to get a sense of the household impact and so this is how we did i think it's graphically very good we looked at a one mile buffer from each one of these segments to see how many people are within that one mile buffer and when you look at that other party a packet that says household impact that's where that number comes from either like you know twenty three percent of the community is within one mile of that  and i think that was possible yes crosswalks thank you for sharing that so the little yellow ones are cross walks they're obviously the ones that are shown here i think there's ten of them are the ones that we're going to find as being  high priority sites that some might be crosswalks some might be just also looking at the intersection improvements as well i think for instance the one that's in down here our friends were growed needs more than just example getting the word out through different media sources as well as working with a lot of our local organizations and in committees the energy committee really been working closely with leveraging their experience on these types of initiatives to try to make sure that if we are all are successful so so we do have a strategy for rolling this out but another key point for this slide is there's a lot of work here between now  correct that doesn't need to occur with our budget question traditionally tony to date i don't think so it does not you could put it on the mean time i think the august ballot has some issues associated with of everything and that's you know and and so you know geographically if you want to be able to get from a to b through you know non motorized means ma years and funded a number of projects with that like the path along webster of others those are the ones i can think of off the top of my head but it multiple communities are being very targeted investments is  or and also for matching monies on we figured that you know for example we could get used two hundred fifty thousand a year in debt service who could raise two point one million dollars and in the market just  drop numbers so we have the money to move forward with closing some of these gaps but always looking to leverage and take advantage of either developers working to close those gaps like the ones on spear stream we know that going towards julieann that whole neighborhood made me end up being constructed i don't know exactly the status of it today but that developer hopefully will we can work with them to help close that gap between the u s forest service building and swim stream for instance so the committee wholeheartedly wants to leverage this money  prove it and it's relatively cheap do it now and get the sure package and then these people could use it until we get the money to pay the captain's voice that several times to us and we want to work with just hold on just that very thing you get enough people in the room so we can figure out  is there a quick and dirty way to get it done where you don't have to go to the north grid do it right the first time but sometimes to the first time to be done a certain way and in then you'll have something it's useful for the two years it takes before you get the magic green before you get to percentage of money that we spend on school being in engineering and what's left to actually construct the past and i totally agree attempt i rather or higher i'd rather hire somebody cut tire guy with a backhoe and tell them that they don't mile long hold eight feet wide and eight inches deep and fill a full sure track and so we have something and pay for the eventually rather than spending half of the money we get out engineering because that's what the grant requires and i know it just i  don't my own committee could take a look at the relative value of just spending if if the voters were jury the one sound on just calling something like that rather than been using it to apply for grants they've done we've got a major developer in this room who's looking at his i pad right now my guess is that when he builds a bike path or a sidewalk he's not spending half of his money on engineering and sculpting it for like ten years or is it for ever or so we're certainly interested in hearing the council's recommendations on that from our discussions internally have been a pos you know maybe one set for one year would pay for a whole bunch of it and i don't know i think that just would be kind of interesting to know what we have that we could possibly do in a shorter time period a lot of yeah it goes right to no circle we on the right away there used to be a road there because that was all going to be developed i mean there's another place where man i know we have that right away because i asked about it but i think would be interesting to know what right away so we have that we could potentially address this way that would give a very picture in terms of so what could we do with ten years of one cent that with all the formal scoping and everything that's like tele drop that pathway i don't know how long that was it wasn't very long but it was two hundred thousand dollars  running out of time so all of just to close with the tempering remark one first of all i'm a strong supporter of the submarine for council twice and i strongly believe that is recreation for the community glue that connect every corner of the city so i'm fully supportive of committing the resources to approve our walkways to tim's point earlier i don't think the august is necessary if this is going to go on the july nineteenth tax bill so i'm not seeing a pressing time or look reason to get   dogs and cats as well as an exemption and the exemption language taking any land use that was a permitted use in a specified zoning district and having that be a function of the or ours as well as some business owners in the community about the hours for the care and control of dogs and cats and in the current currently warned the timing when that would be considered a public nuisance as well as it's now currently warned that the language for the exemption of noise from a permitted use in a political zoning district of the city's land development regulations provided it compl with the regulations pacific performance standards for that district the concept behind the exemption is our ordinances typically are about regulating behavior behavior of individuals and different property owners are land of element regulations that are over the legislative body there is the planning commission they regulate land use with approval from the city council the concept being that if we're well so that's that's what's currently wanted and i guess with that preface i would recommend opening over here all right so i entertain a motion to the way to open a public hearing on the noise ordinance normal thing and moved second all in favor we are now in a public hearing are there comments from the public concerning this these ordinance changes them i'm christine to but i was here i was here last time i guess i just wanted to get clarification was the first part are we still talking about the time change to the noise ordinance or has that been resolved  from animals my concern was that if that is indeed considered a nuisance noise is a nuisance twenty four hours a day depending on what your needs are and where you are if you happen to work the night shift in your home during the day  the dogs barking during the day could be a problem if you're working out in your yard if you have a young infant i'm not sure why it would be less of a nuisance during the day than it would be at night and so we talked a little bit about that last time and so i'm concerned about limiting particularly since the noise ordinance you know we were talking last time about the trash ordinance it was to make the to make it more restrictive in terms of the nuisance noise this makes it more permissive and so i'm i'm a little confused as to as to why that might be in terms of the the exception from herman did use my concern about that is that at this point in time it's my knowledge is that there isn't hasn't been an establishment of buffer zones what kind of barriers would be necessary to try to contain that noise where the experts in new ways park but you're doing your best to contain that noise i don't think any of that's in place i also don't think there's anything in place after something's permitted to determine whether it actually complies with whatever the intention might be and there is for all other issues i know by counter plants and checks your lighting in your side but i don't think there's anything in place routinely where they check to make sure that the sound is within limits that it should be so without that being in place i'm concerned that if you make an exact exception that you may be opening the door to up to a lot of noise that is potentially bothersome to neighbors at this point the other thing i would say is that residence and myself included with  business we've purchased a property with a noise ordinance in place that's been in place for many many years so we bought it assuming that would be in place the other irony is that with this noise ordinance i am obligated to comply with the noise ordinance yet i won't benefit from it and this business doesn't necessarily have to comply with it yet they will benefit from me having to comply with it so it seems a bit contradictory at this point in time where if you have a business that can buy its permit exams it seems that they are getting a benefit that other residents are or the other way to look at it is that residents in the land that is near this sort of perm business won't share in the same benefits that all other south burlington residents benefit from with this noise ordinance they don't get that benefit i tracked the new ways the noise from the business next next to me for about two weeks at the end of march following our last meeting what i found was on a daily basis there was a minimum of thirty minutes of parking and a maximum of hours of parking this was  windows closed and so to me that's problematic if i were to open my windows i wouldn't be able to conduct my business regularly because this noise is intermittent it's unpredictable dave and it can go on for varying periods of time so i'm concerned that if because it has a permit they can now violate the noise ordinance it really impacts my business as well as the houses nearby  and i understand that the idea is to move this away from the noise ordinance to the to the planning to your ministry of officer to enforce it but what i want to say about that is i' been they've been in business for about eighteen months if i were to log how many hours of barking and whining i have listened to it's been over a thousand hours it takes a long time understanding for the process of the administrative officer to follow through and make any changes or any kind of whatever consequences there are it isn't a fast process so it could take months and i do understand that ray has heard the barking and he has sent out a letter but i'm also told that it could take months before anything really happens so i guess i ask you to consider very carefully whether you want to make an exception because of what it might mean is that people are listening to nuisance noises for long periods of time without the ability to have an and does it does a great job but he's one person he works from eight to four if these businesses are in violation after that he needs to hear the noise and self is what he told me so if this noise for occurs when he's not working i'm not sure how that will work so i just ask you to consider it carefully i do have audio tape of the of the barking if any of you are interested in hearing it i have taped it from inside my office it might give you a good idea of what i  i listen to it my colleagues listen to on a regular basis if you would like to hear that i'm happy to forward that to you if it would help in making your decision that's what i would like to hear ok so i will use it best if i the quality of minutes i've recorded on my phone it's ok i'm not an acoustic engineer and i recorded it when i could when i wasn't busy working but i do have a variety of recordings that i can try to not just ask you in terms of noise with your windows open closed or closed either one i spent a little time sitting outside and i heard him within about half an hour or two dogs barking what i found more into the industrial part oh really big trucks and they're very loud and i'm just curious if that's if you would consider that a noise i have aisle ation is right now because it was louder than the dogs now it's  to be honest with you that doesn't bother me that's more background noise it's more of a steady pace it i mean i used to be on dorset street so when i was on tour says st i heard the fire engines in that i mean there's all sorts of noises there that kind of noise never never actually bothered me this noise something about the character of it and the duration and the frequency of it is is there something about it that's more bothersome so i do hear some of those noises but they really feel sort of fade in the background and they don't i don't consider human ear ears and your psychology of hearing gets used to things that are background noise is right so the engine is a continuous same r p m usually if it changes that's fine tire noise but when it's  and they're all different frequency groups that's a kind of thing that can distribute that's of the characteristic characterization of it because i think i kind of know the different barks and whines by heart you know they're all like different sounds and and and so there's this whole chorus it all depends so if any of the neighbors the people who who live there have a dog do you are you concerned about their dogs not concerned about a typical neighborhood  barking we have that in my neighborhood and this is it's just by that and if it was just short bursts and not as often i don't think it would be problematic it just can go on and it's so unpredictable sometimes it's just a little bit barking and it 's no big deal and sometimes it goes on for hours and it's really hard to after a while it's it's it just gets just gets bothersome but is it in terms of the trucks tim this was i'm not talking was trying to listen to get a sense of like you know many of you went over to j c park to try to get a sense of really what is this dog barking i was just trying to find out if me because i think people have different levels of can be annoyed differently or with different noises and you know i found the trucks being far louder and not sure and when when did you go up we moved in may of two thousand and sixteen we've been there almost two years so we were there before the b ground before i didn't know they were going in there and my second question i realize that you don't mind divulge but has this impacted your business absolutely absolutely i have clients often stop in the middle of session and make comments it's disruptive it kind of it should lose your train of thought and i have colleagues routinely come to me expressing their concern about it again it impacts the work we work with i mean i couldn't imagine two businesses that could have been more incompatible in terms of being next as we do psychotherapy with clients who are traumatized having sort of a steady background which is pretty essential but even aside from that even if that wasn't the case it is very destructive and a kind of gets on your nerves and i have to say just for the record i love dogs it's not that isn't the issue it's the noise just sort of if you think about any background noise it just every now and then it just keeps playing then it can go on and it's with the windows closed with the windows closed with the windows open and sometimes i try it just to see i can actually because i might have to get up in the middle of session and close it and that that is disruptive i even recording it i found that i had to stop after a couple weeks because it was just taking too much time to record how often the dogs were barking and how much they were barking and i tried to rate it i tried to be very scientific about it but it became like another job because it was so frequent and so disruptive and i thought i had enough data to do for me to feel ok this is a problem i can say one other question do you have a white noise machine that's what i'm going to have you know i have a i have an air filter in my office that i only use to i don't feel like i should always have to have the windows close and i think as i said last time you know we're small business owners i work in the yard myself and anytime i work in the are not where my my ear buds because it's just it's again that noise is just too much and it's not the background noise it's it's it's the irregular b it's that it's the dogs barking and whining and sometimes the shouting of the people trying to control the dogs were barking  any question i have questions about the snow hold on my smell with the haulers just myers had a good conversation with him about trash collection and the little bit about how other municipalities i don't know where we are with this current ordinance i don't see the changes being proposed in the document before us i feel like i've lost track of where what purpose specific proposals right and i was looking for them too and i maybe you can yeah i think am but they have one difference is they don't necessarily restrict trash dollars from collecting before seven am just residential zz after seven so burlington allows commercial pick ups of trash at six am as long as they thirty am and that's dessa commercial you know this and they're using a huge dumpster and dumping it like this in it's bang bang bang coming up the hill so that's where those instances where even though it will might be six am there you know there that would still be banned so if they were to violate that see what happens i mean right now i don't know how many complaints the city actually gets about trash from noise or noise from trash others and i don't think it was actually solicitors until we asked for it's all i ask for in front  got a lot of feed ok i got over thirty e mails about it and only a couple people didn't think it was a problem most or what else thought it was a problem so i think if we give people the opportunity to say but the seven am and then see where the sewer goes from there in the sense that you've got to complain about it being prior to seven in order to get some action to right so either you call the holler and say stay to my neighborhood until seven am and if that has worked and you call ray doesn't work you come here and complain right and then we bring the haulers in and say why do you keep coming into these residential areas before the time it's in the noise ordinance right what do we have to do issue you a ticket which would be glad to do right because this is a quality of life and life issue that people have been dealing with for a long time and you understand that the nuance that i'm describing made me understand it but it's like so if you have a purely commercial area but that it says seventy m in there's nobody around to complain about it i don't think it's an issue but if you have a residential area and it's seven am and people are like upset about it they're going to complain in which case then someone's got to take some action of your and it still pretty certain sound levels before seven am but they explicitly stated no trash pickups in ca if it said residential trash pick up between eight and seven am but still make sure the ordinance leaks to the limitation of noises that scholars would still be mandated to stay under before seven am that would allow them to still do commercial operation of any of these above sets instrument devices or vehicles collett causing said noise in such a manner as to be plainly audible at a distance of fifty feet from the building structural vehicle from which it was emanates shall be prima fashioned evidence of a and that's between the hours of eight of midnight and eight it is also in the first class of that they catch all anything that is fifty feet away shall be deemed  with regard to a permit it use that creates objectionable noise because of noise frequency aids does it contradict the performance standards it reads noise from a permitted use and an applicable and zoning district of the city's land development regulations provided it complies with the regulations specific parm performance standards for that district so there still is a condition that it complies with what you've just read so if it's it must it's exams if it  complies with the specific performance standards for it just so if it does not comply then does it fall under are arguably this would still apply this with the exemption would still apply even if it doesn't arguably it would still be considered a nuisance ok if it did not comply with the specific performance though and those are the performance standards for both presidential commercial stuff so when you say fifty feet away a bit any time is it the forty five for residential and sixty for commercial or is it just you can hear it i guess i'd rather not get too deep into an interpretation of our performance standards leave that to what we could potentially be appealing future future litigation  interpret these regulation the problem we have is that we have been allowed to use that generates noise and there's no standard that that's a meal the ours that is able to distinguish it is it being a noise if i interpret that correctly building were totally enclosed in their walls on it i don't think it would be an issue but since it's an outside clear ia in this offense it tends to probably echo off the building and head towards the stone associates that's that's part of the problem so the question is how do you reconcile the approved use in that zoning district right where there's probably a print not of quite the right performance standard because i don't know how the fifty feet applies there because there's more than fifty feet between the two businesses so is that a question where we need the planning commission to refine that to come up with some acceptance performance standards within certain districts for certain use you know in general because there are probably other uses that could generate venue that looks to have it outside and then they have a summer stage you know for a beautiful wedding with a tent and they blare the music across a meadow towards a huge residential area which actually went underwood as well so i mean that  actually could have the like house say they were talking about that they could've been a problem in your neighborhood right yes there was some proposed businesses that would have blasted music possibly with a cider mill right so just because you have an approved use doesn't mean that it shouldn't have develop some standards do you apply them retroactively i mean that's a real conundrum we've got it going business to going businesses next to each other and they fifty foot strip between our neighborhood and this building we were never notified as a budding landowners so as a developer even though we're putting in fifty houses here we never knew the building was going up i was equally as surprised that i learned it was it was here i think they put it use here that should not go where it is where we are i think part of the problem is all the complaints that we've logged in both christine and i to s going nowhere because they're telling us they can't do anything because they can only ticket the owner of the dog not the owner of the facility which seems ridiculous so there's this constant struggle of we're complaining nothing's getting done and then we hear that the ordinance is going to be changed to you know only nighttime hours and i think there's some clarification that's happened here that that's not really the case is my understanding but i remember going through the planning commission minutes when this building was approved because i was curious about the process and the noise was discussed the deer be did their due diligence and talked about the money this year be at the time what was stated in template may remember this it was stated let's approve it will let's approve it it will be an enforcement issue i'm paraphrasing obviously but that that that concerns me that it was stated that it was going to be enforcement issue and there's no enfor that development will be plainly audible fifty feet away does he want the same in foresman applied to him that he's advocating free permitted use that is final and binding that was granted the right that was discussed you can't just do it based on change the whole point of this change is to have one vehicle for enforced and that's planning and zoning for permit uses that's the only logical way you can have any sort of o drive me nuts and maybe that'll drive you but maybe that will bother you the whole point is when you have a zoning hearing and zoning process you fall within a very specific process and procedure for regulation and the point of this change is to ensure that a business owner that got their permit that is operating in accordance with their permit perfectly in accordance with their permit is regulated consistently and fairly under the zoning regulations that  just want to clarify that and second of all you know to say that nothing's being done is completely inaccurate i sent a letter to last week to your counsel return in south burlington who rely on them to take care of their trusted family members i've heard remember several of them and you shouldn't because there's rumors right now that you're all trying to shut them down and then right well i don't think that term purpose but well that's what's been said to collaterally attacking the permit and we're having this discussion tonight that's not appropriate i don't mean to be aggressive about it but my clients livelihoods being attacked by one person who doesn't like that's not the right venue and they're trying to make changes that apparently with some additional yeah  that happy tails is willing to and that's one of his other on the table and that's one of his only provision and that's low point of the change you're asking tonight because you can't have a dual track system from working with one person that should be i work with that person i meet their up or maybe move that seriously as because people can hear me start again please you or i were my name's carol have i worked with highly traumatized people use hypnosis and am d r mindfulness all of these things that require a certain amount of calm and quiet trucks do not bother my clients but they do every once in a while say to me how do you tolerate that barking all day so i'm not i'm getting it from my clients not from me i'm getting it from my clients it's not true that only one person is complaining all respect due but there are many of us in the practice complaining  i'm very surprised that the it's also concerned me because i am a resident of south burlington so that this went through zoning and was permitted turns me just as a resident of south burlington there's an industrial park right across the street that would have been a perfect location for this kind of business where it would not have bothered the residential area at all so it's it is a larger issue of what zoning is doing and then how they are thinking about us as a community however i think the law as it stated would help us we're here because the law has been changed and the laws being changed instead of the address the problem being addressed so i don't think we address the problem by changing the law the ordinance says that there needs to be quiet during the day we don't we don't resolve that that's like changing the levels of chemicals in the water because there are too many we don't change how many chemicals can be and what if we do something about what's in the water so if there are issues here there are many things that we've talked about that we talk about the other meetings that can help the wall should be higher there should be other acoustical things going on we should be arguing about changing the law when the issue is changing the structure so i find the noise disconcerting clients find it disconcerting and i would appreciate if the business i don't want them to that are out of business that would be very devastating for them i want them to do something about the noise and i think there are things that can be done by changing the law is absolutely absurd there is a new believe there is no responsibility your  for your business to do anything to protect you put a screen of you know think evergreens to you know i disagree with the gentleman who just  e i believe we were permeated before they were permitted and i'm not a lawyer so but no i don't think it's our job to put up a wall the wall that they put up is inadequate it's only i can look over the wall the wall for soundproofing i was in construction for thirteen years the wall for soundproofing needs to be high it can be done there are things that can be done that would be helpful although i think we have a an ordinance that limit the height of of fences there was recently reduced less it's been around the police station i think that chain link fence is a little higher but my understanding is that they've already solved that by saying it only can be whoever hired can be but so that may not be an option that unfortunate oakland changing a law then changing a law about sound ordinance and the entire community well you know the concern i have is risky to i have clients who are very sensitive to the fact that there are dogs that are in distress and then somebody comes out and screams at them that's not the way to handle dogs they should know that so ok thank you yes please come up to the table and give us your name crane's i'm actually not a resident of south burlington but i live in williston but i have been taking my dog to have details for about a year now i think we  very fortunately discovered them and i cannot believe that there is a dog in distress in this facility i have an eighteen pound little terrier who jumps out  skin with joy to go to that place she would not go there if there was any kind of mistreatment and she she cannot wait it's hysterical to watch or they are awesome people they love their animals and i know they're concerned about noise but like a j said is this the place to be taking care i don't know about all of the permits and everything and i do know that they are functioning as their permits allow is what i've been told i understand that they did have their permit before the neighbors had theirs so i'm just here to support happy tails thank you we love them and actually my our dog pretty much was my husband's therapist she saved his life after a dramatic brain injury so there's a lot to be said about the dogs tails and when the discussion was about the ordinances in town i didn't think it was appropriate for me to get out i live in burlington just by south burlington  facility that i have researched that i have experienced our dog also just jumps for joy going comes home happy i have spent lots of time there i've recommended happy tales to a number of people who have had other experiences and we all come back and say these are the most involved caring people that we've ever experienced and the amount of time and attention they have given to putting together this extraordinary place is amazing and i do feel that the question that you asked whose responsibility it seems like that's something that could be shared responsibility but it is not just one it is not one place so just as here determining everything the question about incredibly loud incredibly loud i have three hundred kids that come into my facility and i can tell you that they probably said the same thing about my business going forward we were able to operate it was something that you know you mentioned earlier that people get accustomed to whatever noises that they may have over a period of time and never heard what was going on and less kids from another day care what passed in the dogs or outside in the dogs went absolutely crazy i chose not to send my dog to that daycare watching and listening in and observing what went on in there and i didn't a whole lot of research in all this and was extremely happy to come across happy tails i work with a job trainer outside the facility i've been able to talk with them they follow through with the instruction they're very aware are they dogs experts i can't give them that title but they treat dogs respectfully they treat their employees respectfully the dogs appreciate being there on the flipside of that i can also say that i have spent time in the other business that has been up here and i have never been a client that has heard anything that has been a distraction to me coming from that other business so i feel like i can speak on both sides and  that when i was a client in that other business it wasn't a distraction to me but i'm extremely happy with the care and there would never be to stress that would come from the employees to the dogs that happy tails band school for the marching band next to the institute for migraine headaches having these two business was kind of next to each other you know our position isn't that dog we're not trying to get somebody else to go out of business we understand that we need to be able to work together here so i'm trying to you know i'm looking at like what's going on here and we're still to the point where you know if we go up with a lovell or two is what's happening a nuisance is someone in their business in their office with their windows closed two hundred seventy feet away from another business listening to dogs barking for hours you know your thought about like the dog breaks from the truck yeah but that's for like thirty seconds you know we are endorsing street for ten years you know and there's fire trucks that go by and there's road noise that goes by but it happens you know it just flies overhead and it's noise that happens for five seconds or ten seconds or fifteen seconds you know i'm sitting here and go i have this trash hauling thing how long do these guys make noise for is it a minute or two once or twice a week we're listening to dogs barking you know in an office with windows closed two hundred seventy feet away for hours at times some days some days it's not so that mean there is something they can do to make it to mitigate it to make it better it's not like the dogs are just barking eight hours a day twelve hours a day every single day some days are better than others so i know there are maybe there's the people that are working there maybe it's the dogs or certain days i'm not really sure i don't work in that building so i'm not there every day i'm just owner of the building i see this is mean to me if two dogs are barking and they're creating a nuisance this should be handled under the place and one hand with the trash haulers were trying to figure out how can we you know enforce it better how can we make this all kind of work almost me maybe making it tighter so that everybody is happier because people are complaining that it's noisy whereas what we're trying to do here is actually make it more open so that more noise can be acceptable and saying well if it's creating in nuisance why do we want to make it more acceptable i think we just have to sort of sit there and define it and say ok i mean if the dogs are happy and live here they're happy i really am and i have no ill will against that business but that doesn't overcome the fact that we can still hear dogs barking all day long two hundred seventy feet away with our windows closed i mean the fact is a fact you can hear it whether the dogs are happy or not i'm not going to go there i'm semi judgement about how well they want their business i'm glad people are happy there and taken their dogs there there has to be some way to look at this and go what can we do what can what can they do they're creating the nuisance it's not really our responsibility to have to put up bushes or shrubs or a lot to block the noise and build a wall around our place to protect us from the people that are creating the nuisance they have put a wall up maybe it is too high or too or whatever it might be but i can tell you when i stand in my wife's office and i look out the  window looking right over the top of the fence because the land slopes down from where the building is to where the fence is i can see the bottom of the window the bottom window sill that's about three feet off the ground from from the building so here you've got a building that's got a wall it's probably fifteen feet high at least plus the roof and you've got a fence that's eight feet high but it starts five feet below the building so the fence only covering you know you talked about how the sound hits the building an imbalance is off over the fence maybe there's a way they can build a taller wall there to block that sound maybe the dogs can be inside more and maybe somebody just has to be outside and monitoring the dogs and if there are out there barking for long periods of time that somebody does something about it i understand they have a permit to run their business you know construction companies bran building and i know they have construction equipment and know that someday they'll be done and every day the trucks are out there making noises that are bothering people in our building for you know for long periods of time if you're going to go through and make it ok for dogs barking like that and for us to have to listen to that we have a permit to run our business to and when we you know we bought the property i think in july of two thousand and fifteen we didn't move into may of twenty sixteen but when we bought that property and started making all the plans to build a building there was a noise ordinance there that that protected us from having to deal with stuff like that as it keeps the noise ordinance there in force the noise ordinance rather than making it difficult right now and part of the problem is with the with the police department you've got this excellent law enforcement agency out there that are feeling torn a little bit here because here you got a company that was issued a permit to run a business that has dogs barking but yet they're creating there they're also working the noise ordinance at the same time so what do they do you know you know there has to be some clear clear rules in there in the noise ordinance describing like ok yet if you're violating the noise ordinance regardless of what your building permit is if people are complaining about in the in the middle of the police can then issue a ticket or a summons or whatever it is that they do but it should be the police department perhaps it's in forcing it you've got some conflict here but it's clearly it's clearly making a nuisance we actually even thought about you know we like it there brad built our house our building for us we're really happy with it and amazed residential neighborhood we were talking about how nice it would be actually to live that close to work you know up so our grad you know i i can't even consider i can't imagine you know waking up in the morning you know wanting it what set my dad to have my cup of coffee and having to listen to fifteen dogs barking even if it's three or four hundred feet away you know if the trash guys came by led all right and now they're gone you know it's the duration of it you know it just and you don't know when it's going to be on or not going to be you know so i'll just throw that out to everybody to ponder and to think about if you have any more questions for think you but i just want to let you know my thoughts thank you very other questions i guess i'd recommend coming out of the public hearing and you know either making a firman of vote to approve the proposed amendments as for po or some guidance as to how they should be changed and if if you vote to not approve the amendments as proposed then it would not need to be warned for a new new hearing endless you want then i still want to keep it quiet i have residence that i'm advocating for as well i just i'm i see haulers i want to find a middle ground where they can still do commercial service while still keeping it quiet but i'm supportive of the seventy m that's what burlington has i just i feel like in a residential area be restricted at the residence said it's affecting them they would have to stay below the no it's levels i would look to burlington how they're doing it but again i would be more interested to talk about the issue that so many people have come to speak to us about tonight in the trash hauler which is a larger would also want to step back from all of this if there's no time pressure so that we could do a better see more sophisticated and thorough comparison of neighbor municipalities and the noise ordinances look i know you've been doing my job but i'm feeling of a little lost in all of our different options of how we compare pm and seven am in residential areas see d c eight is that not regulating in commercial areas right with the rest of the noise ordinance in burlington regulates commercial areas that you can't make noises about certain levels but it's not explicitly say you can't collect trash if you do it relatively quietly without complaint does that make sense but i think  so this second issue then did you have a i don't we don't need the conversation would all say is i'd love to ask you a couple of questions in executive session i love to be transparent and all that but since a lawyer came down and i just had a couple of questions about what we can and can't express regarding land use as a life i'm not ready to support this language as it is the three of you are still a b but i want to talk to injure or ask you a couple of questions and executive session of our legal exposure agree all right  not point we will not approve the we have that amendment that we're offering and we'll have a third second hearing or it's for the forty second hearing  have that conversation on the seventh ok thank you very much  mind is possible climates of public officers to fill recent vacancies in the city council airport commission and pat i understand standing is that we have only one appointment to make agreed upon at this point and that is airport commission the pac and the city council replacement is still pending for discussion yes but we were there was a process and i thought we should discuss that as a process to make sure everyone is on board i thought we were already there but that's changed  you know i don't know i just i think we need to have that conversation and tonight is not the night to see you but raises concerns for me memory what we agreed upon i hear a counselor having a problem with with that is there a possibility having a conversation right now april sixteenth twenty eighteen and going to i don't know i'm possible appointments we have a motion so i just want to say a couple things i am happy with the process and the i can't speak for pat but i think pat would support this candidate and i would just want to say again this council all every single member has been very respectful in this entire process with past passing and with the appointment the selection of this person so served and i'm going to make a motion because i don't think puppet object to either of them and they're this is the best representation the city could have so i'm going to move that helen really represents the south burlington city on the airport of you know is land use and transportation planning organization that represents all the communities into the county we are a federally doesn't and metropolitan plan your decision which is a lot of words that we don't really need to pay attention to except what's nice about it is we get federal planning money transportation planning dollars now we're able to make available to this camp the community center in county through an application process so burlington requested us to do this study  and regarding the conversation previously about funding projects with federal versus nonfederal money you know we think that the federal money is really well suited to complex projects with which this certainly is so s just nations as well as numerous prior studies that have been completed studies in planes at the local regional and state levels we included several forms of community outreach including two separate public community workshops as well as two separate public employ tools on my surveys and numerous meetings with local stakeholders including our residential neighbors of adjacent property owners and business owners agencies and committees we developed and evaluated numerous alternatives and tonight we existing bridge to wills road is highlighted in red that crosses interstate eighty nine at exhibit fourteen to the north we see sheraton holiday inn out of the western or are you again immersed in vermont and medical center to the south we see the symbols plaza or hill residential development and some other residential neighborhoods on the southeast we see the university mall and to the west we see city center the existing interchange was designed to move a high volume of the more bugles at a high rate of speed and this segment of us route to that crosses interstate eighty nine at exit fourteen is the highest volume road that is not an interstate in the state of vermont where is that stuff from because i've heard that going to which source the sure so that's based on the a t t the average annual daily traffic  so all road segments in the state system are recorded for each year an annual average daily traffic volume and so that's based on the date that's available and bicycle facilities out there today including sidewalk across walks that cross the high speed ramps as well as paved asshole share views paths adjacent to the sidewalk in the regal travel way as well as the curb with the on the sidewalk there is little little room for snow storage and the existing conditions do create on comfortable conditions for bicycles and  trians and most of the green is gone at this point i mean this is a photo from a while  crash locations so this was an evaluation of a five year period and a high pressure location is determined when there is either a road we segment or your section that expect that i has at least one crash each year over the course of five years and so based on that most of the the area of the study area that crosses the interchange here are  included as high pressure early in the in the study there was a survey questionnaire that was a minister for capturing input by existing users and particular bicycles and pedestrians so this was made available often they do and whether or not there ever deterred from crossing this this stream deterred from traveling to destinations on the other side of the bridge and it was made three hundred responses and a lot of comments on user experience is all that is documented in the final report for the third question are those the only two options sometimes the never i believe i believe for that question i believe those are the two options i guess that adds up doesn't  the first community workshop presented the existing conditions and received a great deal of public input both from attendees who spoke in front of everybody as well as through the crowd was organized into a handful of different focus groups and so each focus group had described and they documented their concerns as well as ideas and suggestions for solutions at this location they also are ranked in order in order order of importance different factors we could see being shown as as the greatest and they discussed a number of goals short term and long term solution the project team developed what's known as a purpose and needs statement this is an element of of federal transportation planning projects as well as the district project process where  winds really the reasons of why we would go after one of these projects and it highlighted you know the most important elements and serves as a guideline for evaluating  the different parts of the different possible alternatives through the course of the project process person needs damon was approved by the city of south burlington planning commission in january of twenty seventeen on public input existing conditions person the statement the project team developed a number of alternatives for consideration including four different short term alternatives and nine different alternatives that were longer term here we see a me tricks that we use as a protein team to evaluate those alternatives against the purpose and need we can see for projects standing out in green and those were determined to best meet the purpose and need and they were then carried forward for further importing consideration those alternatives that are shown in yellow do not fully meet the purpose and need however they may be potentially be recommended to be scoped separately as separate projects or included as other future projects in this area so that that includes some some other  so this brought us to our final four alternatives that were considered this does not include the result turn of number one the do nothing alternative where nothing would be done that's clearly does not meet the person in need however that do nothing alternative was carried throughout the evaluation to serve as a baseline for comparison of briefly describe these four final four alternatives and the upper left  turn to which crosses over the clover leaves just south of us route to by way of three separate bridge structures and  existing shared use path at oriel i mean birds of the southwest interchange as well as potential connections to and through the university mall in the upper right we have alternative three which is a shorter single span bridge that crosses interstate eighty nine just south of the existing exit ramps is connected by way of power would be connected by way of elevated structure in shared passes back up to us route two as well as connections to existing sure pathing portal neighborhood and again potential connections to and through use in more areas around the world here we see two potential stations one located in the jughandle west of the interchange and the other on located near the holiday inn this available twenty four seven compared with some of the alternatives some of the other authors in the lower right hand corner we see what we are told he can only bridge which basically at the second level meets the american and did americans with disabilities act the e t a guidelines this would keep keep users of it close to the existing mainline however it would also include all of a lot of construction a lot of structure and if there are work to be future changes to the interchange that could pose some risks in terms of maintaining that specific to those alternatives were had ballot cars and were able to rent the alternatives as well as provide specific comments to that after this workshop  separated from traffic it also showed priorities of different factors involved in the decision making process with c t clearly being the highest priority so that brought us down so being based on based on our there review and in addition to those public meetings we also had numerous meetings with stakeholders as i mentioned beginning including neighbors property owners as well as committees and and and we also met with the staged agency of vermont how we met with individuals from different sections from the agency to discuss so here's shows a little bit more detail of all turns to that crosses the claw relieve just south of the existing bridge it doesn't include three separate bridges crossing the ramps and the interstate those bridges would be connected with a large amount of fill within the clover leaves excuse me there but we do see the connections up to the main line there as well as potential connections to the existing path already deal and down to and through diversity mall and possibly an hour to market street or garden street this is alternative three and this involves a short single span bridge that crosses the interstate eighty nine just south of the existing ramps for the exit it would small again to market street or garden street it is a single span bridge it does have a lower cost and you would also be able to be remain in place during and after any potential future construction of the reconstruction of the interchange although there are no current plans for that it is possible out twenty thirty years invited and paid committee they provided their recommendations their input on this project and they also found that alternatives two or three would be the best to move forward expressing that they best accommodate the majority of active trying to push an on motorised traffic as well as important future city center development and they also emphasize the importance to connect two wills and route through ordeal and street from university mall based on all of the input and feedback evaluation cost considerations existing and future plans uses and potential future developments as well as  potential travel routes we recommend that the council consider making improving and russians will prove alternative three as a preferred alternative for the alignment and that would include our clearly defining what type of bridge would be built i include in your approaches on either end of that bridge and connections to  and potential connections to or hill and university mall longer list of options include some options on the northern side including a bridge including a tunnel some of the considerations that that led us to focus on the south side or some of the  and and future plans and facilities like you mentioned on the south side those roads and my second and i think it three questions is what is what would be the life span of or knowing that this is going to take some time when take some time to be to go through the design process and to to get the construction to be built we would expect this bridge to not very far distant from this bridge ok so my question is is clearly it's a cystic i saw on the on line report and i think i read it correctly  was that was a big eye opening moment i also had a question though because you had said it in the short term there was and i had heard this and in a prior meeting that i had attended i was unable to alternatives that were a value were developed and evaluated during the course of this project including on road improvements to existing by school facilities and so those in the report we we identified that they do not fully meet the purpose and need because primarily because they will serve not the full range of bicycle there are others of a wider breadth of users that still would not be comfortable enough with that solution it's human and so we recommend that those types of solutions be considered and scope separately and could potentially be developed in the short term and supplement a longer trial alternative that would address the needs of  a greater breath of all users of abilities all ages because just having my own supply case of vertigo and having family members who have vertigo going over the interstate over a bridge so i trust the engineers and stan tech and all of that that also might induce some discomfort and stress and that that is a consideration that that will be you know taken into account and your movement forward in the design process so you know there's a separate bridge and that those considerations will be addressed during the during the design process for the separate something i imagine that we as a committee should think about is does this option also mean i went to a couple of the meetings and there was certainly conversation about having the the pedestrian pathway large enough to hustle comedy like a bus right is that still part of the conversation or is that how you price it out or and so think three is probably the most pragmatic solution to the problem for moving people you know on four wheels right of the road over the interstate for that's what it's about in the safest manner and it probably would be fairly ascetic because you would have your own bridge setback and far away from the mean bridge and the design process will probably learn some quality to it that people will appreciate  wouldn't but i might wait a couple years but you know i mean so in terms of you know the millions of dollars that you might spend there might be some much cheaper alternative but it depends on technology and you know  comment was that you said the item three was cheaper than item two i'm curious how much cheaper but i guess it doesn't really matter because this is going to take decades to build so is substantially less expensive based on their complexity that i mean they will both  you know incur costs but and they will both incur substantial costs for traffic management during construction the traffic the cost for traffic management alone are also substantially higher so and i think one of the things from turning to i didn't immediately think about buying him out of the meeting is that bridge would have to be high enough about the existing road rage to be able to cross the ramp so that would be quite a big structure we don't have any concerns with negotiating or working with the you know for that access and to dumping all the bikers in there yet the general manager was one of the stakeholders that we met with and certainly the prior owners were very positive towards the idea of a bridge and we'll see what happens in the future you so we'd need a i would entertain an emotion to prove alternative three is the preferred alternative for the i eighty nine exit fourteen pedestrian bicycle crossing improvement project  second and i will just encourage the interim to see how it works right ok are there any comments from the audience on this topic  have printed out copies but i would note that we fail to identify three typos so when we get to the  motion if we do the first correction is in the fifth fifth whereas and it inserts according to the final united states air force and the first line there are all technical grammatical the second is under the eight whereas eight on this page one bullet one there was  an additional and they are the will eliminate that and then the third technical change would be on page three least from my copy of the page three  and it's the six whereas on that page and the very end of it it says a mishap rate zero point eight three over its lifetime and it should be  well this is a resolution that i brought forward and i understand and appreciate the timing to the no act family is not ideal i think as tom had pointed out sometimes you can't organize things with situations that happen in life or death in this case so this is not meant to be an affront to the former counselor pat this is a resolution that i feel very strongly is really supported by the community of s burlington much of the language in this in the detail comes from several resolutions that this council has passed over time so the content and information and facts included in the resolution are items that this council has voted upon several times so it's familiar to us and it is something that the majority of the council it was not unanimous in fact i think all of those vote for three two but they do reflect the majority work of this council over  a number of years there clearly are a number of people in the audience who would like to speak on this and i'd like to limit that to about half an hour and two minutes  i will time you so if there are comments that people would like to make we'd be welcome to hear them and i think maybe we should hear those first and then have a council discussion or we can do it either way i don't care just when we have discussion first ok i mean i don't i don't think so i'm going to be brief if you let's not go over so i support the resolution because to me that we have passed several resolutions on the council that have had to deal with noise from the airport that has impacted the you know removal of homes on the airport property the number one cause of noise has caused the d l to go up is because of the f sixteen and the block fifty two engine right and it's been said that there are thirty five is going to be allowed or in some way than that point and with all due respect to the guard at the base and everything that they do the one way to try and solve the problem of the f a a continuing to want to purchase homes and raise them at the airport which affects the amount of housing we give to our workforce this remove the point source the noise the point source th noise is that plane so i think it's a very pragmatic thing to do to say why can't you replace the mission with another airplane i think that's a very simple request to make and i think that we've seen other communities to make the same request and it's been voted on in burlington and it passed and that's all i'm going to say because to me it's pretty simple and so my vote on this is simply on behalf of the community around the airport to stop the destruction of homes by bringing in another mission that replaces the thirty five or something else i think that's a very simple way to try to resolve the issue and i know a lot people don't agree but my goal in mind is to try and preserve the housing and preserve the quality of life in the mirror and that's the only reason why i would support this i'm not against the f thirty five per se there's a spectrum of people that have different beliefs on there are people that are adamant against that weapon system there are people that are just adamant against the norms and there are people that are kind of in between then there's all the other people the other side but the point is that the objective and the goal is to try and preserve that neighborhood as much as possible and this is one way that we can try and do it and we've tried and we've had a collection of resolutions that we've passed and some will argue that they've had no effect but some will say that maybe we are starting to have an effect on the airport and the f a a and if that's true great and i say let's and when you ski later when the draft yes was issued in two thousand and twelve and i wasn't on the council at that time i read with consternation the data indicating a fifty percent increase in the number of homes that would fall on a stone around the airport deemed incompatible with residential use rising from one thousand eight hundred to twenty nine hundred homes are over sixty six hundred people over the six years since i have only become more convinced that the f thirty five is incompatible with a densely populated residential area this remains the case in spite of the federal judge's verdict last year as history has shown has shown us with the suffrage and civil rights movements for instance because something is legal does not mean that it is necessarily right south burlington residents are deeply patriotic many have served with valor in the military or provided to direct support his family members friends business owners and taxpayers as a community we are civic minded and actively invested in the democratic process our democracy is in trying to in our city charter and in the vermont and u s constitutions which our military members only swear to uphold at the same time south burlington residents subject to if not the noise than the impacts of the noise and the noise compatibility programs which have been decimating our affordable housing stock putting the future of one of our three elementary schools in jeopardy and overall disrupting the peace of mind and quality of life of many who reside here we have the policies of two federal agencies that work here in south burlington mayor weinberger of burlington has stated and restated his desire to stop the buyout program and pursue other mitigation programs the regional director of the f a a however has stated that other than home acquisition no noise mitigation exists to lessen the impact of these high powered jets it is a hobson's choice from the perspective of of us living here in south burlington there is no wind wind with the f thirty five which forces me to consider my responsibility to protect the rights the economic assets and the future wellbeing and prosperity of south burlington residents which is also prescribed by our comprehensive plan in spite of the wishes of the burlington mayor we here in south burlington have to consider the likelihood that the f thirty five will trigger the same mechanism that brought us the home acquisition program to begin with our residents will rightfully demand federal relocation assistance thus leading to the demolition of hundreds more houses on top of the two hundred that we that we have or will soon have lost and these are for our workers the lack of affordable workforce housing has reached the crisis point in our region and state people and particularly people who are responsible for ensuring the well being of our community have to look at the big picture there are few alternatives for our workers to relocate and so burlington for this reason many go to communities north east or south of us further away from public transportation and job centers the drift outward increases the number of cars on our roads and our schools lose families with children incurring further costs additionally since chickening county is the center of economic activity in the state we need housing not only for the people who work here but also for those workers whom our businesses wish to recruit studies show that the lack of available affordable housing in south burlington and elsewhere is the number one factor that is hampering our economy due to slow slow growth in our workforce the lack of available affordable housing causes our grandchildren to move elsewhere and perspective recruits to decline job offers the workforce shortage is real and measurable and it is a big problem today is not yesterday we have to look at the facts now and use their best judgment based on those well beyond who was here first the question we need to ask is what should the region's priorities be in order for our economic future to be bright and county is the economic engine of the state today given all we know the f thirty five are not compatible with our economic priorities a federal policy decision that leads to another federal level decision to fund the demolition of homes that serve our workforce and are in short supply is short sighted and therefore unwise fortunately the seeming predicament does not leave us with another win lose situation the air force has stated on a number of occasions that there are other options other flying and even combat missions are available with no loss of federal dollars in emergency responders airport no loss of personnel maybe even an increase and certainly no loss of the base any suggestion that the base will go away is pa false the air force has stated so and except excerpt from the air force's brief submitted in federal court last year and this is a lawsuit to which we knew it was a full party in south burlington joined as states the following there could have been any number of reasonable alternatives available to the air force and how to configure burlington and quote furthermore one of the options the c one thirty from its noise and safety profile to the jobs it brings provides the win win that our state our nation the local and state economy and the residents of the city and region need some people may wonder why politicians disagree on the conclusion to be derived from all of these factors or maybe not politicians often disagree that is in the nature of representative democracy we are a diverse viewpoints and opinions just as the public is and that is that it should be the goal ultimately to the benefit of the public is a full airing of views in order to strike a balance between valid priorities and concerns pat nowhere provided that on this council and we grieve for a loss i keep in mind and not least of all in honor of her contributions to this six years long discussion and debate that we have taken up again tonight we had honest passionate differences however i believe and i do respect pat and her position on the other hand there is the question of vested interests securing votes from constituencies corporate donations or some other political gain or pump promise of advancement and i will not take the time to highlight all the facts uncovered through the fine investigative journalism performed by many news outlets the new york times the wall street journal bloomberg news the boston globe including the reporting by jasper craven of the vermont digger suffice it to say i am happy that burlington voters have shown more sense than has our congressional delegation it is also fortunate that i am free to say so i am not bound by promises and beholden to no one and nothing other than my own conscience and i'm accountable only to the residents of south burlington every day we start anew in order to uphold the democratic principles on which this country was founded it takes a lot of work and there is much work to be done the fact that petitioners had to go to the burlington voters in order for them to have a say instruct the local governing body that oversees the operations at the airport speaks to the failure of the democratic process in this basing decision we shall see if their efforts and the burlington city council six to three decision to heed the will of the voters lead to a needed correction furthermore taxation or any form of hardship without representation goes against our basic american democratic principles we fought a war over the fact that south burlington the community that has sacrificed and will continue to sacrifice the most and that stands to benefit the most from the economic benefits of an airport provides has no say over this basing decision or airport improvement plans that directly impact our city is to put it simply un american some have argued to me that it is unconstitutional again there is much work to be done we have learned about the f thirty five problems over the past six years this decision is not just about the residents living around the airport whom the basing decision has already coming so i had a long and short form going to give you the short form because i know i think i see where things are going and where we are tonight noises tough i mean you saw that a lot of you were here for the conversation about the the dogs at the  residence out there we've had conversations about dog parks there's no one right solution but i just think it's very important that we're clear in what we're doing this resolution is against the f thirty five so if i just i heard a comment that i'm not against the f thirty five this is to cancel it so as long as we clearly recognize that that's what this that resolution is doing i think we need to make a couple of wording changes and i'm going to make a quick statement the short or the short version on what that is i don't believe this resolution focuses our attention or energy where it needs to be burlington as i asked the question the question goes to the secretary of the air force there's no need for us to divide or citizenry citizenry again and ask the very same question we'll hear the answer is there an alternative mission or not very simple burlington mayor miro one burger released a statement last week listing the multiple reasons why he still strongly supports the basing of the f thirty five at the burlington airport or federal delegation of representatives sanders leahy welch recently asserted their support for the basing of the f thirty five suburban international airport or governor strongly supports the bas f thirty five these elected leaders and their staffs have studied this issue exhaustedly and come to the responsible conclusion that the f thirty five are good for vermont the united states air force has come to the same conclusion i have studied this issue but admittedly with a lot less time to do so and no staff support and i agree with all of them the f thirty five are good for mot they're good for the region and they're good for self any advocacy for this military base in decision is rooted in a benevolent desire to grow opportunities strengthen the economy and do our part to protect our great nation the macroeconomic benefit of a robust and prestigious fighter jet mission for the green mountain boys is compelling enough for our elected leaders to support this federal military resource is also compelling enough for me to oppose this resolution and to again state my support for the basing of the f thirty five at the burlington international airport i am proud our green mountain boys were awarded this prestigious mission this council in this community have been torn by this question on too many occasions it is improper for this council to take action a hurried or paid manner i'm really glad we're going to hear from comments tonight the argument that all that is needed to have been said is false on its premise because people want to be heard i don't think we need to take action tonight i think the public needs to be heard the public wants to be heard the public have a right to be heard if i was trying to stop the f thirty five and i was in on this council i would bring forward this resolution i just strongly implore this i counsel to do it the right way let's have a public hearing this week i'm free all right announce it let people come and be heard i think it would be wrong to consider this attack this action without time for people to speak the dop topic demands of an official public hearing announced and warned duly to take action in this man would just be inconsistent with previously stated principles of the council process matters the public matters i think we need to look the public in the eye all the public on both sides of this issue and then announce meeting when we act on contentious issues i saw governor scott do that recently and it's the right thing to do if this council feels this resolution holds merit and i strongly believe that i strongly believe we must hold an official public hearing and listen to what the people say before we act on it and should this council still feel that we need to take action on this i have two recommendations on how the wording of just the be it resolves i've got some issue with the where as clauses but i would strongly recommend that the wording of the be it first be a result state that the city council itself burlington and not the entire city i think that's a better representation of the what this action does is for you to consider i'm going to vote no matter how this is framed but i think it would be a better wording change for you to say the city council south burlington and not the would you want to say and not the entire city but to qualify the council and not the city and i would also just like burlington did i would recommend you change the word from cancel to replace they too i don't think any of you want to cancel the mission of the guard the first whereas clauses says you support the mission of the guard and that was a key point i went to that meeting as well watched it on tape i think changing that word from counsel to replace still accomplishes your same thing while staying true to the message that i've heard each of you say that you support the men and women of the vermont or national guard those are my two recommendations i can't support this resolution in its current form but if you wanted something from better wording that i think would be less i think would be more consistent with the statements i've heard you all say i would encourage you to add the qualifier counsel and also change cancel to replace ok thank you is there any conversation on times to suggest if you want to do that now sure i would say that i believe that it  is standard that we say city presentations and i think that the rest resolve clauses pick up those spirit and the will of the burlington voters so that's where they sit on those and i don't think that it puts the mission into jeopardy city so at this point i would like to open it up to the public i will limit your comments to two minutes so we can pare that a maximum number of people to speak if there are some and who would like to you can guess would you come up and state your name please  my name is lonnie raven and i live in south burlington and i work as a land use planner and i have to say if this was anything other than a plane sponsored by the us air force and our congressional delegation nobody would stand for any kind of industry that would have this kind of impact on so many people i've worked as a land use plan or on the issue of affordable housing and it just seems insane to me that we're willing to a race not really a race but it's really negatively affect thousands of houses a majority of the city of we new ski i mean it's insane it's crazy as well as almost all of south burlington affordable housing is it just makes no sense whatsoever and i personally am not on the flight path so i'm not speaking for myself but i have a daughter who again needs affordable housing her friends need affordable housing they when they go to the airport area the airport neighborhood they know they're buying substandard housing the the the information that the people who are against this particular mission of the f thirty five a coming to burlington reading the air force material the air force material say that these houses will not be habitable i'm not making this up nobody's making that claim except for the air force so i believe that bit i live in burlington now and is really proud to vote for cancelling the f thirty five and i'm really proud of this group for considering this again i know it's been many years and many layers of of working people have worked so hard on this and people keep saying well it's a done deal it's happening they're coming next year and i feel like you know decisions can be changed based on new information and it is time to to really step up and step up strongly you know as a as a city in south burlington i know when as he's looking at it again tonight and burlington obviously voted strongly in favor of canceling and i'm proud of us for doing that i think it's hard to take something that's this contentious and look at it again and again and again and i think it's going to be time after you pass this i hope you will tonight that that we go to leahy and bernie and peter welsh and and talk to them from a place of community members from from all of the affected communities here and talk to them about than the evidence the one piece i wanted to highlight which i think you brought up how much was great was the the c one thirty which which has been put forward as an alternative alternate mission does provide more jobs it requires a minimum of three crew members that that aircraft the f thirty five and the f sixteen that we have now just use one crewmember the pilot and so choosing something like the c one thirty which would have a minimum triple the number of crew members does increase jobs and the f thirty five doesn't add any jobs to our area but but the  one thirty could so that's one of many many reasons i think about safety i think it can and i support the resolution thanks thank you very  yes i'm john rouer a retired emergency physician recently doing occupational medicine which involves the study of health of noise and its effect on health and so forth and i hear a wise decisions being made about the economic impact especially with affordable housing for workers and so forth but i haven't heard anybody on either side mention the health effects of this plane the f a a does not buy these homes for fun or for any economic reason it's because all vailable medical evidence is agreed upon that this damages people's health this increases the rate of heart attacks strokes it delays learning in children all kinds of cognitive effects i bicycle past the airport on my way to say michaels and i teach conflict resolution and when those planes go over i stop and look at them they're kind of need to look at but i can hear i can't do anything else really with those it would that really slow we hugged her than an hour's worth of testimony about dogs bothering people at forty to fifty to maybe sixty decibels over an hour as being terribly annoying we're talking about sixty five decibels per hour over large areas if they have thirty five comes here thirty three thousand homes that's a lot of health damage and nobody on the other side seems to talk about it so i just want to speak up for patients that way the second point about health and is the mission of the guard is to protect vermonters i understand that if we were in danger of attack by fighter planes as we were pearl harbor the f thirty five to me would make some sense i'm firmly against this plane on any  isn't the dangers we face anymore it's i c b m s with nuclear missiles on them it's cruise missiles with nuclear missiles on its terrorism and its nationalist asters that are going to harm for mine yet thirty five does not allow the guard to protect us from any of those things and if the mission of the my name is julie masuda i'm a recent graduate of you v m and i live and work in burlington almost any spare time i have had over the past three months has gone into preventing the f thirty five from coming to our area contrary to popular belief this is not out of some malicious desire to put the vermont air national guard out of business rather it is a desire to do the very job itself is always set out to do i want to protect the monsters the f thirty five with its deafening noise would do the exact opposite and that is the crux of why this resolution must pass it may be true for some folks that the infamous burlington ballot and subsequent resolution came down to a question of whether or not voters quote unquote supported the guard but that was never the real question for me i want to know if we as burlington know tony and cared enough about the health safety and prosperity of our neighbors and south burlington iowa new ski to protect them from the impacts of an f thirty five facing call me unpatriotic i don't care i do care about you my neighbors admittedly i used to be on the fence about the whole issue i didn't think the status quo could change i didn't think the f thirty five would be that different from the f sixteen s and i kind of like the sound of freedom bumper stickers but once i took the time to do my own research to delve deep into the issue and all of its implications i realized i could not possibly support the spacing a lot of semi accurate information is being put out but the fine print is often left out entirely for example i have heard arguments that over eighty million dollars is going into upgrading the airport this is true but what i w conveniently left out is the fact that only about five million of that is going toward the f thirty five if those who have regrettably become my opposition bring you facts please ask for the whole story jobs with the year occurred and this is about retention and i've been doing this for twenty some odd years went through the whole i b m and global foundries transition and it was not easy and we took down probably eight thousand jobs during that time period the this resolution we could lose the guard so there is no guarantee mission here period  don't know where the c one thirty came but we've got about as much chance of getting a c one thirty as we do getting the space shuttle so burlington's resolution was debated there was a lot of time that people could see it either you're for it or against it but i would encourage you to remove the word care salacious because that really is asking for a total and a commission here for the for  they say the best as as has already been reported the best way to solve the problem of noise is to remove the houses that doesn't sound very good and nobody nobody not even the last speaker has argued that the f thirty five is good for the children in our city they're not saying this is going to help them now it's the us air force that's the most authoritative on this and the environmental impact statement on page twenty nine and c thirty gives what the air force has to say i've just read some of some of it several studies suggest that aircraft noise can affect the academic performance short school children this is the air force evidence exists that suggests that chronic exposure to high aircraft noise levels can impair learning what we're reading scores tasks involving central processing and language comprehension such as reading attention problem solving and memory appear to be the most affected by enormous chronic exposure a first in second grade children to aircraft noise can result in reading defects and impaired speech percept sion more difficulty solving cognitive problems puzzle solving and attentive attentiveness poor reading comprehension and insult elective cognitive impairments there's more this awareness has led the world health organization and the north atlantic treaty organization nato working group to conclude the daycare scanner centers and schools should not be located near major sources of noise look the right word is cancelled we don't really follow they will provide some my name is fred cupboard i'm a south burlington resident and i just wanted to talk on two issues we haven't talked about tonight that all relate to statistics and the concept of fat tail risk if you're not familiar with that fat tail risk is on a probability distribution where you have a low probability of something happening but the impact can be humongous i think the two thousand and seven  financial crash we two things we haven't talked about is statistically from the air force is e i a s if i've interpreted correctly and i think i have  the air force predicts that in the next five to ten years we will have to do three class amish taps i think the threshold for that is two million bucks we're talking about a crash or a blown engine while taking off like happened in florida with the eighth or with the third at thirty five in the next five to ten years god forbid that it doesn't go down in the most likely spot statistically which is off the north end nuclear first strike target think you're ashima and we're not talking about the neighborhood near the airport we're talking about the risk of decimation to a big chunk of the county  you think that's farfetched think about what is going on and the statements being made in our national level people are talking about how our federal government is disintegrating in terms of the values we formed it that we're changing the person on the white house we're talking about worse possibly in syria korea if that happens how do they do respond respond possibly over to take out the first responders on the job is to train f thirty five pilots to go over the pole and drop a nuclear bomb on a nuclear first strike on other countries or to be the first responders we will have for not already store nuclear bombs here because you  learn from i think the lessons of the burlington city council when they phrased their ballot item it was determined to be very misleading to voters so when you talk about wanting to support burlington city council who spoke the will of the people i think there's a fair question that they really didn't know what the will of the people was and so i would also encourage you to have a legitimate public hearing on this topic you allowed the people speaking on the noise resolution earlier this evening to speak without limit and it was properly aired as a public hearing we didn't get that opportunity so there is not a transparent message from city council about really wanting to hear the voice of the people so i hope that you will not rush to vote on this the c evening but will take the time and invite the public to a legitimate public hearing to get everyone to speak to this to this issue and give you the input that you need i also want to just make the point i wish i could have checked with somebody but it is my recollection that these planes these jets when they take off will only be heard for six minutes a day so it's not like the poor people who are next to the dog park that have to listen to dog barks you know dogs barking all day long i have two dogs they bark a lot i love them but if i had to be listening to hours of that noise it would be a distraction talking about six minutes a day of the snow ice so please legitimate public thank you yes carmen think my name is carmen sargent and i live in that neighborhood i didn't come here really intending to speak tonight but i haven't heard anybody speaking for the people in the neighborhood except some people on the city council i've lived there for forty five years nearly forty six it's been a very disheartening experience to watch my neighborhood crumble in be taken up by  airport millions of dollars invested in buying up home when the airport is profiting from that yet they can't find money to build a sound barrier around the perimeter of the airport where's the justification for all of that we've had hearing after hearing this is been going on for as long as i've been involved in it for as long as it's been open to the public and we need to have a concrete resolution from the city council saying that they support me as a resident of this neighborhood and as a long term resident of south burlington and we're not against the guard what we are for is livability schools and having a community where you can function with other people around you without being drowned out by loud noise bring on the this whatever plane they can that's quieter and i'll be happy i'm in my house for the long term because it's my residence i have a daughter with a disability who lives with me the house has been made excessive bill i can't afford to do that again but i would like that on the record that some people just can't move when people tell me that will move i can't i just can't do that so please do what's right for us people are speaking for the business community but i'm just a small person speaking for my community so i think you can appreciate where you're d conservation and i listen to them know at family bring up the point that this has been brought forward to the voters of south burlington i would say that this started in two thousand so we've had nine years of opportunity to no kidding gauge what the people south burlington fake and we haven't done that for this council hasn't done it what i do see is that eleven thousand names were put on a petition in three weeks in support of the f thirty five all in south carolina to me that's a pretty big h of what the voters say so i would just caution that when we use the words they are speaking for the people please present the data please show that to be true the point i'd like to bring up is here a resolution i just read it tonight talks about the c one thirty and i don't know has anyone heard a c one thirty has a new one lived underneath one thirty flight path they fly for three hours at a time they fly lower they fly slower runway one one nine that is right over south burlington would be open to continuous pattern noise so reading your resolution it doesn't read like a significant amount of research was done by that i would encourage you to become educated on that for you for thank you city council after city council meeting resolution after resolution house for another public hearing that's outrageous there's been enough time spent on to solve proceed with i've heard false wins repeated here again by the business community number one that the tangle close if we don't get thirty five that's pure hogwash it's disingenuous it's just close second point about the misleading ballot on the burlington vote that also is ridiculous i don't know if you poll seen it  people of burlington through front porch form and many other ways you know the venue's over a four week period so by the time there was a vote they knew what that ballot meant so don't hi my name is doris bed and chair i do volunteer work in south burlington just repeat one thing i said it pearlington meeting a while ago that i've done my own research and something i found recently that i didn't know before is that the threshold of pain for noise is rated at one hundred t sixteen flies at one hundred fifteen decibel so at a thousand feet over when you ski pratt and whitney makes the engine for the f thirty five they say in afterburner which it's estimated they'll fly afterburner about five percent at the time here in burlington they are capable of a hundred and forty nine de anyone else yes good evening my name is tricia gust of cern and i am a south burlington resident and it's been interesting i haven't been keeping track of this whole process of the last several years because i've been busy trying to raise a young child and keep up with was caught up with the schools and everything  so this is recently i've been more actively reading and learning and different viewpoints learn about tom's viewpoint through his facebook page to it this afternoon and catching up tonight with all your viewpoints and to me it's  state but have lived here about twenty two years i think of a county drive to me i stayed here after going to you v m for quality of life and since i had a child have a child a thirteen year old quality of life is really my age fifty five it's like that's really what life is all about relationships quality of life community and a positive healthy community we heard from so many people tonight all that health issues that this thing could cause certainly i'm sure there are business opportunities but we're smart enough in south burlington and come up with other business opportunities that are healthier people have listed it you know if a crate if it crashes i'm outta here i mean i think we all have health issues and just from the toxins and that we have to deal with every day so different than twenty thirty forty fifty years ago so i just encourage you to think about quality of life and what you wanted as far as quality of life and the community you want to live in and how healthy this place has changed in twenty two years my daughter she saw these trees come down in the last what two weeks market street can you drive even in burlington out here you know it's not south burlington but she's like  trees gone this is like one week my whole views gone we want to live like this i mean i don't i want quality of life i want nature i want good relationships i want good schools and when i'm you know to be able to feel good every day thank you very much  for anyone else if not i did get it text from general craig and i would like to read it i called him he was out of the country i guess  because i didn't price him of this and he said good morning hon thank you for the voice mail last week unfortunately i'm out of the country and can't respond personally i'm disappointed by the council resolution but not surprised based on your comments at the burlington city council few weeks ago i'm still hopeful that one day the communities will work together instead of against but i thought that five years ago unfortunately we can't move forward constructively please know that the men and women of the air guard continue to train and prepare for their current future mission regardless of these distractions it's hard on them and their families to see and hear this unnecessary debate especially after the decision was made they are professionals and will do their job jobs but it's not without unnecessary stress these resolutions in no way support the vermont air guard and it's my job to keep us focused on the future mission and to be ready for the first aircraft arrival if short few months thank you for your time steve if there is no more no other comments or issues raised i would entertain a motion for approval if there is any with the four so as it is today it says and this is a result all right the n b a result the bottom is his number one cancer the basin and two instead provided the aircraft is comparable one one statement you know one result of the resolutions with this and say cancel the basing and instead provided me to replace that replace the f thirty five with an aircraft as compatible and because you could replace it that way my understanding is that the city council really didn't pass with that language in the resolution clause they passed the wording from the ballot item in the whereas clauses and then in the wording of the resolves they very consciously chose the word replace because they manner and i would say of the ike august fourteenth meeting but to your point that the bridge of voters stated that there just wasn't the resolution that was passed by the council and so our voters have not endorsed that language and that i'm aware ten when the first public meeting was held and to to just as a speech even you know come back to the point is we don't own an upgrade this airport i understand there are i agree with you there yeah and so if the people who own and there their representative government representative government  are contacts we're working with russia we can work out there was peace on this i would just say that word cancel contradicts the first whereas cos of this resolution if you read the first whereas clause that state's south burlington values the women and men of the vermont national guard ind orse is their mission to protect the citizens of vermont their current mission is the f thirty five i just think replace makes a lot more sense and is consistent with what i've heard but the flying this just in any further discussion no i'll just say that i think we've taken the temperature of the community repeatedly and if i just go back to june of two thousand eight hundred i think it was there was at least two meetings here and then a public hearing and talk a little school where many many many people testified so i don't think we really need to have another public hearing on this for this resolution this the city of burlington did and i think for the if we wish to have and i think we do have a positive impact with our standing in solidarity then it really needs to  happen sooner rather than later and i think that really precludes having a public referendum and as you and i have argued this before we think very differently about having  depending on referendum as a guidance for our decision making it can be helpful at times but it also really slows down the process and can and i remember back when we were debating in the legislature in the state that we in two different sessions the rights amendment was the tipping point and polygynous later did pass and vote in favor minimum but then it had by the process to amend the u s constitution it had to go to the public and the amount of money and people that came in from other parts of this country to change that vote could take your breath away so i think plane you talk about referendums you need to know there are consequences that where a we are part time representatives getting paid something that's not even worth mentioning because it's very small amount of political yeah all i'm saying is i think it's slightly different and we want direct democracy with our local representatives of such local issues  hearing where this council is going with this i just want to make one of their statement that i jump past and i say this because i talk to people i will have coffee with any of you i think i've had coffee with half of the people in this room and i i appreciate that and i see this role as a community listener and i want to hear from people what i've heard from people since this is come up you know i just want to relay this concern i didn't anticipate and seeing an increasing public concern with the direction this council is taking and i would say that some have said we've acted too quickly on the library lease some of said we acted petulantly and i checked the definition that term i think it's appropriate how many that we have to impetuously in closing the dog park i'm also hearing a lot of people talking about us acting too sacred of leon real estate deals and we're go i'm not saying this i'm saying these are the things i'm hearing and i'm just concerned that if we act tonight if we don't schedule a public hearing for tuesday night or wednesday night and do this the right way i just think it continues to degrade not my confidence i'm no where we're all coming from but the public's confidence so i think the right thing to do is the public comment tonight people were not told that they would have time to speak you're going to pass it pass it you get it done this week but just do it the right way that's my last statement and you have your of your opinions and i guess i would just counter it was on the agenda with consideration and possible improvement and every other time we have had that at least one i've shared i have had that on the agenda we've allowed for public comment and i did tonight i know i said to you i didn't think we really needed it because we've had five public hearings and multiple conversations that were very public we've had several elections with people who opposed the f thirty five hundred gotten reelected so you know but first second to that scene none will go back to the original so we have a motion before if there is no further debate on favorably signified by saying i item twelve announcements and city managers report and he was huge in oregon response of research on growth rates in the cities and how sometimes growth is not good for communities and how positive of large growth rates are well for lead with increased rates of poverty and lower thermal gas but they're going to increase the fixed cost rates by four percent the overall projected cost decrease would be about a fifth sixteen percent decrease but the fixed cos increases will then go on until they have another increase so if the price of gas goes up two things happen right your part of your fix fixed cost billing is tied to your natural gas usage so that goes up plus than the regular fixed  is by day and that goes up so i said please restrict them from four percent to one point eight percent because obviously the book as this is a pro personal opinion doesn't know how to manage manage money well in view of what happened with a whole edison pipeline and you know so many the effects of depression and anxiety and in teams in the possibility of suicide it is very powerful and i recommend you watch it if you'd like to but i don't have a link for you to look at i have a link in my email i could send it to you later if you'd like mozart festival is not going to be in the south burlington for any of the dates this summer so i did contact michael de brass key and if i'm happy to get to talk about this at another time i i just  i'm i'm wondering you know if there should be some more consideration to on his part or our part together together to see if it could work in some way so i just  got a sense that it was more to do with the process of being included on the edge you know the schedule concerts that it was it was change of subject but i want to mention one thing during that i forgot to do i've heard from about five or eight markets actual school parents very concerned with the library plan so i think we i think we've done a good we are documentation of our presentation is i believe clear but i  think we need to do or a better job of promoting what that new plan the configuration looks like i've heard concerns about where rick market fits into the library plan and really that you know too well and i've had conversations with individuals with the library board and they are interested and willing to really help to communicate to share the vision and plan what they are what's holding them back i think at this point in the land swap and knowing actually exactly where the library here center  before they launch the conversation with the public so and potentially i think we need to have more conversations with the  well the i have a steering committee meeting about you know your visions for city hall earth or city center and bring them into the loop a little bit more publicize it so that families could attend perhaps perhaps i mean we certainly have had lots of conversations with them so and we've there isn't a connection and kevin and i are going to me with  elizabeth and david to try to tease out what are the real issues about this land swap and their concerns around having the library so close to the school because i think the messages they have given are concerning to parents that's the thing and like to that the library design was that the children section was right on the first floor and i thought how appropriate when you're a neighbor to a k through five school to have that children's section and only the children's section maybe the periodicals out there too i can't recall  but the seniors are on the first floor too yeah yeah but the fiction nonfiction in the teens and tweens are of stairs and i just i thought it was a really sensitive configuration given the placement citing of it so i would welcome that discussion because as a parent of a first grader i would love to have that library within walking distance from her school to be able to go i mean i'm happy to take her to the mall and we do go to the mall and we went over here before to the community library but it's a place she loves going to too and working with us to find the parcels that we want including you know where when and if we need the parking garage not if but when we need a parking garage and all of those kinds of issues so but clearly there was some a lack of understanding or communication or i don't know we're going to try to get to the bottom of this because it seems us went to either the calling hours for pat or the service i went to both and so that was sort of the sad part of the last two weeks it was a point i did i did there's several things i do want to report on tonight i did get a complete the briefing from tom from his appearance before the school board on the matter related to the land swap and i think are going to have a meeting i think it's on friday with david and elizabeth to learn more in the meantime i think it's prudent to begin a design effort to seek modifications of the building so that it actually fits on our property such that we do not need to have any land swap at all still retaining all the features that we want such as the children's library on the first floor senior center and so on but design it in such a way that it simply fits on our property fortunately a lot of the work that was done on the design was around the program's understanding what the public wanted and  that tomorrow we are happy to report that the i was informed that we have received we've been approved for the university of vermont medical center community health improve pay him grand oh no at the grand oh i'm sorry i'm sorry friend for our mental health think oh well for me everything yeah there are some restrictions on there are some restrictions on it that i have to understand but we were i was in actual money arrives but i think it's probably a july july to june brant and it's and you can if it's renewable so go for i think every year so does that offset any of the community charges or could i need to understand from from them what what the restriction they can just offset ours yeah find that out i have to talk to the to the grant manager this week now with all the utility everything all the design features are at the trans there's a ten day period of time during which they review the plan sets and pull down the federal money at which time we will be cleared to go out to kids so that should be in the next ten days and we have already notified the companies who we will be sending big documents out to that they are coming in so that would go out immediately would give them one month turnaround time and then probably a week to choose and to refine the contract and a of the approval the contract comes back to you for a final say and then we're going on so it looks like it's going to coincide with with the end of the school  session but we're we're still expecting it to be within the next two weeks after school zone so probably by the end of june they'll be construction going on we'll be planning a groundbreaking ceremony that you know there are so many so many people who've been involved in this over the many years clearing of congressional delegation and former members of the council so soon as we get a good day together we will get that out of the and to brief them on what the plan is and get their input on what needs to be going on inside and then the law and i are also appearing wednesday night at the c c r p c to give a probably fifteen minute presentation on the status of cit so that's when i got oh ok thank you and then reports from committee assignments we have none at this point ok all right consented genda now we did have an  h yeah i think if that really reflects what he said because he had it written down thinking that's fine i mean we all do that we want to make sure our thoughts are clear  business we do not have any items help from the consented genda number seventeen it is a possible second session this labor relations agreements with employees and real