lives his attorney told him an appeal would be a waste of time and money but under rowe consultation is only relevant if the defendant's wishes are clearly expressed on the record and here defend it clearly alleges that he wanted to appeal a reasonable effort to discover the defendant's wishes there's nothing in this record to show a consultation as defined by roe there's no advice to explain why the attorney believed an appeal would be a waste of money and there was wishes except that he wished to appeal therefore and or row reversal is required and moreover even if this is construed as a consultation the record shows that dorian understood his attorney's response that it was a prediction about the court's ultimate ruling not a refusal in fact this case is very similar to people versus i birds in edwards the defendant pled guilty was it mohnish device right to appeal and then there was no direct appeal filed four months later after sentencing he filed a post conviction alleging that he had asked his attorney to appeal and his attorney said on what grounds and the attorney where dorian guilty in exchange for a cap of twenty years imprisonment expecting that his attorney was going to make some sort of argument for a lower sentence instead his attorney essentially conceded that its twenty year sentence was appropriate  the attorney also didn't challenge the students argument that dorian was exaggerating his substance abuse issues and it's also noteworthy that a child court failed to properly at minus where there was no mention of the state's right and the attorney responded it would be a waste of time and money because he had to file a motion with promptly you have to throw everything out and start completely over and the attorney told him it would be a waste of time to follow motion or drop motion to reduce your satin would be a waste of time and money that's not what the procedure would be the court had just previously and this the conversation happened right the sentencing in the court previously and yet we previously year if your opinion with there be a different result if he had just limited his request to an appeal is so i want to file an appeal i don't know you know how how much detail defend it would have needed in order to understand that well what if he said what i want to do is  because i don't like my sentence i wish it was less what do i need to do and i want you to do that for me is that the same thing as saying i want to feel i fight with the results i want to know what my legal rights are i want you to appeal and ask you to appeal or reduce my sentence i want you now to tell me or i want you to do it without telling me stay and if you don't like this sentence and you want to appeal we're going to have to withdraw friday but draw your own way and that would be a waste of time the cause or would be bad this is a lay person who is actually a teenager he's not going to know the difference between you know a motion to reconsider i would motion to withdraw our security assistance he just wanted to appeal and even if it's the case that you wanted to kill because because my other main point is that this is a first stage p c so much of the state's argument is making improper facts actually finding at this point we have to go liberally construed version of what we have in the record which what we have in the record