agenda feel friendly an agenda on the back if you're curious as to what's on tonight and you know we would ask if you could if you were here to speak about something that is on the agenda of the cheer pulled off until we get there but this is an opportunity if there is something that some loon speak the council about it's investment you put into it specifically rick seasons greetings of the course of not just the week or two that they see the activity but the entire year and how much effort and energy you put into that for over a decade to make that possible and it is one of those visual cornerstones that people think of you know we were just sort of conference today speaking about vibrancy and we know ski and talk about something that really denotes and marcos and a life community that event has meant so much  great and so folks then the twentieth and twenty first she said for the current break and picking pumpkins coming up soon to you oh ok great so quite a few updates and heads up tonight so just to start when it's good had i think a really wonderful week seven days it's been a real pleasure and a source of pride for me to be the manager and in a week that we've had so much recognition across the state for the things happening here so just to take those off quickly i'm hopeful that most of you have seen these but obviously today there were i counted twelve people at i don't hear jerky keynote speech at lunch so thank you so much for sharing your story with us and we depend on i'm sure others will talk about as lot as well there is also a team of young leaders there from when he high school that was really lovely to see as funders we hosted a team from the agency of commerce and community development agency of natural resources and department of environmental conservation as well as u s d a focusing on our main street revitalization project and the funding we've really proceed for that to date the governor and his staff is headed to a new ski school district with an opportunity zone briefing meeting with about twenty five people in attendance interested parties developers state officials people looking to figure out how to use that tax opportunity for investment and their twin craft also hosted a session with the governors cabinet as well so it's great and then last friday we have the full groundbreaking of two sixty eight east allen which is a true mixed income on the lawsuit about spinner and parking as we work through next steps to come to hopefully a litigation settlement by the end of november burlington airport held their first stakeholders meeting as part of their master plan process last week as well be two more meetings similar meetings throughout the process and they have committed to publicizing those really focused on what is the next twenty or thirty years of the airport look like and how do we articulate vision that then can be implemented over a couple of years and i did talk about governance and they also had lots of conversations about some logistical changes they could make at the actual facility and the ridership the anticipate over the get this wrong really focused on how the professionals in our city who serve alcohol prevent negative situations for people in the bar so specifically around training for  preventing another assault things so thank you for the chief uber for taking the lead on that and our state partners as well and then we have two project teams working with our middle school with two different middle school teams right now so with the journey team ran i are working with them it's three classrooms of six and seventh graders on a lot to the future of a lot to park and what that could look like and then paul and heather and i are working with the nexus team on a storytelling commission and the public is invited to attend mike monti erhard brian kernighan eric hoekstra well i'll be here giving us guidance on housing policies a specific tools we're looking at what they can achieve what challenges are and some things we should be thinking about as we look at those policy options so again that's next tuesday night here from six to eight this hearing c c r p c is also hosting the next convening of the housing commission housing committee members throughout chittenden county they have a whole hell of a series of these conversations over the last year or so this one will be on monday october twenty ninth and will specifically focus on  housing trust funds and how those are functioning and all of our communities how we can best leverage them and then last thing on the housing front is v h f a another housing partners are hosting the statewide housing conference on november thirteenth and fourteenth and burlington can go v h f a website for more information on that this year they're specifically focusing on municipal tool so if anyone is interested please let me know if we have a training we can use municipal training budget money for that absolute people are interested in attending and then for the fun stuff we have a bunch of fun events coming up this wednesday night will be our last when you see wednesday of the season featuring tender bellies here in the rotary come out  side too and that's kind of going to be the next big thing coming up in addition to those conversations are going to support their next discussions on inclusionary zoning as well so christine that into that as well so if you have your fortunes by all means and then i just want take a second and know that in our next meeting we will also be finding an opportunity for council in the city to tibbets cap to somebody who serve the community city was kind of waiting for everything we got a letter today that's the official stepping down letter from the legislators who will be taking action i'm sure that claim has a great sin off the next stage of his life but closure watching at home surely the city would not be worth is without all of your efforts time and dedication to this community in decades of sometimes think list service that required a lot of time investment you see klim on the street make sure to give him a yes i also attended the housing commission meeting just some small things as they the discussion around the place of our next also included like monitoring and accountability which i think is important to this is something that they have looked at as well as a discussion about trying to work from the framework of incentives versus barriers when it comes to the moment and then assess said the repeal so you were working is to pull the public hearing in after that public hearing you can decide to move it forward to approval or consider other changes  time this is essentially this this is a rule that globally has inspired some legal conversation from the outside and there were questions about whether or not it was  really an operational benefit to have this ordinance on the book or not and how useful it was first was the potential quite frankly whether or not it was number one natively impacting people's ability to  about their lives and free until they're minerva number two whether or not it was frankly worth the potential legal headache in addition to that and whether or not there was enough cause to keep the rule in the book and what we heard back was essentially take it easy on people who are visiting the pumpkins just because this rules off of the  i know this is out of order but just want to say to the did a great job of history close your bouncy house party on saturday that was great good job next up is joining county you have the regional plan vitality of municipal or the structure of the house and the safe healthy connected people so that we can streamline the master plan update to more closely aligned with what the city's vision is so it's it's taking a little bit of work but we are fittin each of the required sections into that framework really what that's going to allow us to do is that more specifically be able to to react to different different topics that come up or  so we are making good progress and i think we're expected to have a complete draft probably around the end of this month for the initial review and completing the review that drafting the new found person in time for the planning commission to hold their required public issues that are being expressed but we do have a lot of conversations going on the community and city so certainly there's that groups working through things who try to stay consistent with all of those other conversations that will surely when we get to the end of it be some threads to tire together and tweak around better region i think i've done a really great job of building off all those other the work that's been done previously and it's sort of the tenor of where the vision is right now so  too directive and they've done a good job of staying out of operational weeds and operational this is what we're going to do exactly versus it being this aspirational the aspirational document you know one of the one of the  one of the pieces that we're working on now is the implementation program which is really trying to talk together all all the specific tasks that we hope to to accomplish with the russian people to take over the next eight years or six years as we work through to the overall document as well specific statutory requirements for for a pattern where you can update a master plan in the process that it takes we're trying to leave the detail the specific project detail to these other studies so that so that they can be updated they can be updated when it's when it really seems appropriate and when it's timely for those of things to occur and not have to focus on this this whole i don't see congress of this cumbersome statutory process  those plans and other documents will get updated at some point during the during the span of this of this master is a shared story a shared vision of who they are and i think that there is because we have that articulated the planning commission is reviewing that language or of the strategic vision and you know checking in on that this was a doctrine put together  thousand and fifteen is that still are can are these still are community values is they're just it's the need to be made but the strategic advantage of having that set of goal statements so ingrained in the work we do already in continuing on in this master plan perhaps with modernization or further detail i think is a huge comeon vantage and something that other communities quite honestly struggle to articulate and so i think while you know nothing's ever perfect it's it's pretty close to who we are and who we want to be and aligning the masterplan to that is going to be a real strength of this clan and it's continuing those public conversations that that have been happening in the commissions and in community dinners and  they will merge and then just as a reminder one of the advantages of going to civic class is that they are an off the shelf municipal government website product so they have systems in place that have been tested and proven municipalities across the country and regular updates that we have regular access to through our contract with them so hopefully this process while it's a big overhaul now will be easily updated over the years of the contract find somebody who has information that's going on the community counter or the name of the department person you might want to contact a few get an issue she want to learn don't licenses or do all that  businesses in the united states they represent ninety nine point seven percent of all businesses with employees in the united states are responsible for sixty five point nine percent of the net new jobs created from two thousand and two thousand and seventeen were no small businesses  encourages them to shop small yearlong and worse seventy three percent of consumers reported loose shops small independently owned retailers and restaurants or small business saturday did so their friends and family and where is the most reported reason for consumers who are or data shop and dine that small and ability on saturday was to support their community sixty four percent and where as with the remarks were to local businesses that create jobs boost your local economy and preserve our communities and where as advocacy groups as well as the public and private sector organizations across the country endorse the saturday after thanksgiving a small business saturday therefore i said mer when you ski from i do hereby proclaim november the twenty fourth two thousand and eighteen a small business saturday and urged the residents of our community in the communities across the country to sports small businesses and mergers and small business saturday and throughout the year i can do so by proclamation only with the support of the city council so with entertain in motion rehearse the resolution forward with this project now the team has come to the position that we really do need to do up on anticipation of the earliest we could bond for this would be with the winter bond issuance in january which means that next month we would have to be setting the total amount of what to bond so are we going to raise the three hundred thousand our challenge is given to the fundraising committee your hero grant applications following this are we going to get that if we wait until july for the summer bond issu between now and and july while still being reimbursed by the bond so if you remember the buy resolution you signed it was a bond and reimbursement resolutions allows us to pay ourselves back for costs we incur before we heard that the intention of the council was to continue on the schedule to enable the pool to open as the public understood in order to do that we need to keep moving forward with engineering so we are so the risk we take as the manager said is that three hundred thousand dollars cost for this if for whatever reason we decided not to go forward with construction the construction element of this project and this contract would go away  wouldn't have incurred those costs so while we would have to pay the debt service on it for the life of the band we obviously would have to pay for the construction cost of this contract that's what i was just  that they just kept using the word lump sum which was interesting to me instead of stage progress payments sort of the last task ok but are they going to ask it to me look is the amount you're going to pay for that face ok and i guess just in the course of this too i think for this file you don't know how those expenditures are going to use so that they can also use that as a benchmark to help them understand when decisions and file triggers really need to be pulled i think would be hopeful anywhere what's the total amount in one month or so took to get a bond closing in january we have to file the application in november so we'd have to know in a month the total amount we were going to bond  so there and you're right this is a question for you all in theory we can bond we have authorization to fund the entire amount in january i think it's my perception is that it's a hard community left to go back to the fund raising committee and get a guaranteed dollar amount from them in the next month and we won't know about this grant application you're about to hear next so the question is we could ban that full amount that with the information we know now we decentralize on the full amount in december and january knowing in november what the number was for we can go through this process and no more definitively in may for the july bond issuance what that actual number will be but you're right christine in theory that is a that is a policy question for you all of do you want to go forward with or winterbottom to in which case we likely wouldn't need to do this ban the bond so the impression i had after we discussed this last month is that we had reached some consensus that that dollar amount would i can't remember exactly what it was going to as certain items like clear misled and stuff that those were contingent upon fund raising and we would not mind for that but that is a city of nation if that is something that we pakistan says then i think we do have an idea of what the i do think that given some of the other balls in the euro that if it's not an old relives or a administrative burden from a functional asked him point that paying the three to five thousand dollars to keep that flexibility is worth it  because there are still a lot of unknown balls in there and two projects merging together and frankly we've had one really in depth conversation in regards to how the staged implementation of projects would look mainstream conjunction with the pool and that sort of one of the global financial picture and how we my staff were staged that tax impact over that this is you were in there and i don't like throwing three to five thousand dollars away but i'm concerned that if we make a commitment there could be something that backfires up in doing so  bond for the hundred fifty thousand that we wouldn't need if the brand comes through would be significantly more than three  i don't have the big sheet from the last presentation this is from the promotional material slide that we used  st birthing to christine's point then we just walked through at three point four and cored nation with the potential three hundred thousand plus would be you right i think we're just trying to view is there the three point five eight two was about engineering and then the additional three hundred plus thousand was going to come from the community fund raising rate so that the three point four to five point eight why we chose to go this route this is not worth the ages out this is work that once invested upon could be used for the project a year from now two years from now so that i transfer of all aging work to me at some point ages out but d i would just say here but about this being like doesn't age out if there was a further discussion around like the beatles themselves concurrent with that conversation and we also have some value engineering done basically said what would it take to rebuild the similar structure without the same type of components are being proposed namely a slide and some other things we basically look at those and said ok if we if we remove those items we can get it back down to a little bit more before a ball or so we go down the three point five million so the three point nine million there's been a group that expressed interest in fund raising so there's been a conversation back and forth well how much should raise so we said we were moving these kind of valuation your items you guys want and those back in to get back to sleep three point nine million dollars here's your fundraising goal which was three hundred sixty thousand dollars somewhere around there so we turned back to them and said here's your goal good luck and we're committing at this point in time to building the structure with the engineering removed like the  is a federal pass through opportunity that at this point settles through every two years now with the state or hot through the department of parks forests and for grecian so interesting lou this is one of the major funding sources ten thousand dollars to i think the high watermark was two hundred sixty thousand dollars so it's really all over the world realistically the number of projects funded enough for years that exceed one hundred thousand dollars pre scan or more clear you know we talked about the dog park ultimately we decided bought go for that right because for the money we would have got that's a big commitment for a long time so you can just import call out great and good has a conflict to actually see the question so this has definitely funded number of swimming pools over the last forty years unfortunately the list just has through the project title so it doesn't get into the nitty gritty about did it fall on the sly bathhouse or whatever twenty budget and tomorrow the department hands get their individual budgets and start working on it before that happens we want to come to you and see if you would be willing to accept some f y twenty budget calls and our key questions this is in the memo outlined for you to consider tonight is our will what is the council's tax rate goal for f y twenty what are your priority areas to fund given that we need to identify cuts to reach your tax  goals what are your pretty priority areas for service reductions and are there any new initiatives or programs that you'd like us to consider as we delve the budget related to these questions is our recommendation at the operations budget be  belts outside of consideration of any in any tax rate in creases we might be seeing a result of the capital capital projects as we've talked about through those bond goods in preparation for this discussion we put together some data for you about what our current municipal tax rate is and how it's increased over the last couple of years as well as what tax free impacts mean so just a reminder in f y nineteen which we're currently in  other economic factors cause running quite high right now so we're anticipating a two point eight percent increase being built into the budget which has a value of one hundred thirty two thousand for the f y twenty budget so that's not great news that's you know almost three and a half percent increase unto itself better news is there we got very good news about our health insurance increases our projections right now are showing only a two point five percent increase which if you've tracked off a trance increases over the last couple of years we've been seeing eight percent increases come percent increases nine percent he says so two point five is great news and calculates to only thirteen thousand dollars increased based on our current commitment to the community outreach team which is was an ad last year at this current year that we're in and was is proving very successful there are a couple of other white twenty budget ads that we perceive and need for  capital and operational investment we need to make to stand up that new entity and the other is any potential local staffing changes we will need to see given that we will no longer have dispatchers sitting here twenty four  bring them into the rental registry fold and then as last year we built a can salary contingency into the budget and anticipate doing that again this year below in the next three sections of your memo we've pulled it out other areas  potential funding that we've heard in conversations over the last year or other conversations we're having internally and i'm happy to tick through those read them and then other items we with the idea of hopefully is a net neutral but it is that it will absolutely be net neutral to the tax rate it will still be a public buy a vote that we will have to consider as part of the town meeting the alities will allocate dollars to trust funds and either seed money or to demonstrate a complete commitment so that's what is meant there we have some concerns as a staff team about taking  on main st paul a parking garage general see ip improvements in our capacity especially if we are going to leverage significant state and federal dollars and have to do great reporting with our capacity to do that between public works finance we also sadly are losing our very part time accounting clerk so there might be some to make america more pretend position we're better able to retain me make some sense to expand that role to do some of this grant monitor any monitoring if we're running you know multimillion dollar c a p projects all at the same time our camera system and server system a city wide is very dated and needs replacement we anticipate that downtown new scheme will be coming in with an additional funding request we have had a conversation between staff team and council about how engagement and breaking down barriers to participation in the council and commissions so we were brainstorming ideas of how we do that and if there are financial implications for example we've talked about realigning the commission meeting structure to be the same  in providing dinner and child care and that would come with a bit budget had other communities i've worked in have considered have purchased technology for the council right now you are using technology but it is your own technology so that may be perceived as a as a barrier to entry for somebody who wanted to serve in a council role and of course we're having a conversation about increase training for the commission counsel the fire department  having it conversation with the state as well as going through training for themselves about planning to review so right now we contract for the state provides building plans review after projects are locally permitted for build it presuming regulations so then once we finish it gets transferred over to the state there are communities that do that internally with their own folks and as we become as we continue to develop and continue our professionalization that is something we may want to think about pulling back into the city the fire chief is looking at an assistance to firefighters grant which is similar to a cops grant where you can get funding to support higher staffing as you know we continue to make it work but i struggle with the reality that we are not a full time fire department and have folks who are solely on call to us responding there are difficult hours of the day to cover specifically the work day when most of our firefighters are often other communities responding and is there a way we could build the capacity to provide that coverage we are looking at a shift in our insuring the f s a benefit which would have a tough hundred dollar cost it would be solely for the purposes of approved customer service to our employees  superintendent of schools and i and christine and south have been having a conversation about communication and how we best leverage the school newsletter which goes into every mailbox in the city to communicate about what we're doing in talking with the superintendent about that that certainly is a very important tool in our community to get the message out about what's happening and if we're going to be using it as a city newsletter in conjunction with a school newsletter could we contribute some amount to making that happen every month currently we do not  and then we currently budget are two thousand dollars a year for trees service and maintenance we're actually spending more than that and we have seen this year with john's leadership a number of pretty problem trees that have resulted in emergency treatment needed as opposed to kind of regular maintenance that may have prevented that so really believing the urban canopy is important and needing to budget some money for that so those are our current considerations for at standpoint because i do think that we're going to probably you know having to have a conversation about how that could play into more of a long term debt service on some of these large capital projects  do those i'm out and that's that's something i think is you know we can have a conversation obviously on the fly but i think what would be interesting to hear back i mean the hard part is that that's what addresses things when they come up in opportunities so i think it would be good for us to have that conversation about what a reasonable structure of now might be  of i think it's the shift in thinking that we've done in the last couple of years from you allocate out the fund balance to becomes the savings account for the things that emerge you know the massive roof leaks for example or a branch you know often grants will come with me at math requirements that we don't actively budget because they're not purely operational they're onetime costs so leaving ourselves some ability to have be  that savings account i think is valuable beyond just that cash on hand you know ensuring that we have enough to make payroll per couple months there's that i think it might be interesting to throw back in that conversation potentially if that reduction somehow gives us some operational revenue breathing room by reducing debt service on long term debt i could never do it i could never spend that money on operational costs in good conscience i think that's just fiscally wrong on an annual basis i could see the potential investing some of it towards a capital project that then reduces the city's long term debt service obligation but i don't want to have that conversation without us having time to really think through ok if you're going to do that or think about doing that we would recommend at least leaving this behind those dollars so it's not sustain operations for this year and that seems pretty reflective of this document to our first for a the total concentration and we were kind of like one to two percent ish going into it but i think guidance this year was a lot more important in needed necessary budget was basically on the staff do everything that you're doing to the best of your ability keep that intact in the budget while proposing a budget that's a net zero back to the taxpayers so what we then did was we created a list of items that were this is what we had to remove to get to that budget and we would decide are we going to research the wording of those items or the staff would bring back you know the things we've discussed previously about what might be added to the budget so there were a number of things over those years that were cut out cut down say that you know we really took a sc  so that's how we ended up getting there you know the discussion has always been there were bleeding rock at this point though you know that now it's and there's no more padding to cut out in so that when there is just natural inflation or increases in things there's nothing else to there's nothing else to slice there's nothing else to get out we can't war you know the ten thousand dollars it's actually used you know in office supplies that are on the actually using two thousand like six like that's too high and that's a number i'm not comfortable with obviously we have a lot more work to do with mainstream all but i want to present position where we're already talking about six percent for operational cost be a tax rate and perhaps likely to fees would be newly charged to w h a would cover that increased operations having said that it is quite a significant and in our community so i cassady standpoint going to be in a position to be as reactive and open to new requests as we have in the past and that anything more than one seeking funding from the city should be aware of that and think of creative solutions you know on that day that's you know i look at the downtown this your last you know sidewalk he hasn't changed how long you know and that's  again we're talking about one percent increase who are being mindful of what we're passing on to our business owners but that's that's maybe an alternative methodology of addressing that issue  program cuts and i because of respond items that we've decided to move forward with i think i've been pretty consistent in saying that from my perspective as we went through those upon considerable amount to our community with the resources that we have and i think that no i would not feel comfortable restricting those resources stewards of the public and the impact that this has on people's wall damaging between a half a percent increase and point eight percent increase if that changes significantly we'll come back to you and say we have morrow i don't believe it will but we will certainly call that out of that becomes a reality but this was very helpful and you know of the others things that i would i would like to just hang back towards us just to ensure that you know we don't let our hands up the hook is that you know this council also needs to we need e we're going to have more of those decisions and opportunities to move forward with potential revenue sources for revenue generating tax stabilizing projects in the future and that we need to be really mindful that as we move into those discussions we are dealing with the financial reality that you know to keep up with growth just the growth in basic service provision we've got to be prepared to be about four percent per year which if you do the math on you know what you need from a just a growth standpoint in your grand less ten thousand per million and if you're a four percent to two hundred thousand dollars doesn't take too much math to say about twenty million dollars in growth every year in your in your green less to satisfy that that need so i just play that as a backdrop to this conversation too is you know being budget is just a number of that we used to try to support the vision right that's being done in the strategic the strategic goals so absolutely you know that's it's it's in the process for a reason and you know we of have tweaked each and every years to go along i don't think anybody thinks we found this perfect balance with interactions with the commission or with the structure works great frankly so i think you know they try to be thoughtful and this year schedule and trying  i wrote this just taking from our conversation what we did not do you know really very intentionally is go to staff and build up to a combined policy or schedule and th thinking there was that the potential target change process the content and then the outreach efforts those things are going to feed into what the timeline should feasibly be in should be done perhaps in consultation either with this body if we're going to continue to own the issue or potentially by a committee that should vet that with staff closely and thoughtfully and not have it be just a schedule or policy that's just implemented based off of a deadline on that there should be an exchange there or staff can say hey we need to do this this this and this is part of that and they can also overlay whatever goals we've given them of the community are goin us and we can come up with a more or a more complete schedule so i just want to flag that that this is from a policy perspective either so the of the main bins of decision criteria that are put out with these potential  proposed and charge up to include direct whether or not that includes consideration of voter checklist protections or any other items in an auction to open the church to our broader review of other operational or political structure items so this is  administer right now recommended parties that would take those items on schedule public information sessions and forums and formally gauge the school district for feedback informally gauge basically work plan to be developed the thinking here was if there is a committee path that this body decides to hands off to then at least during the off with a target outline would be ideal  usually when you establish committee you try to give them hey this is what you would like you to do in the timeline we would like to do it in and then they get an opportunity to say hey you gave us this list of stuff you want us to do we think that's reasonable or not we think we can get it done then or not and so that's the that's what the time my options were so i think i was trying to get to the point of at least getting some instruction on this in terms of next step phases of their feedback on especially the first item which is the structure of it i think we could move relatively expeditiously it's the council's desire to either start repairing things come back here for the council being the operational paulson development body or posting for a potential committee so the document goes through a couple different options around of those want to just talk through each one with a new start up with the church change process options first make sense last time i thought i heard room watching it too that there might be ok so in terms of the composition of the committee are we comfortable with the full proposal there in terms of what that might look like for composition being the joint committee being offered participation to the school and in the other composition comments in regards to what looks like paid to councillors on their members of councils we've done it multiple ways we've done target outreach and brought specific individuals in because we thought they brought particular recruited people on the committees because we thought that they brought a particular  perspective or keep ability to a community that was specialized sometimes we've done that through public with public posting sometimes we have sometimes we just said we're just going to like the community these are the people who can be on it and that's what this other times we've opened it up to a public process that anybody can apply for the position you know but here are the qualifications and then we're going to make a decision based on qualifications i think it's just important if you're going to applications for those things that's i think and i'm open to hearing what others here to say i think because this issue is pretty focused pretty specific and i think based on what i heard last minute we'd all be interested in  commission that might be your first good brainstorming committee for the two of them to put together some ideas after the kind that would be fun and that would be something with us is actually that's exactly how we look at the city is why i sort of disagree i agree with the step of having you know the two council representatives brainstorm what it is that we're looking for but i think given the sensitivity of the issue and the broad impact it would be nice to open this up to anyone who wants to apply with with some clarity i like we're going to have preference  i mean i think we can use really only this this summary is the posting to explain to people like what's going on with this committee will actually do it i them i hear all i hear what you're saying i think counselor six something to the the effect of you know council members expressions are consider how the city could move the issue forward being a key in terms of the school prior to making that public posting i think it would be good to offer it to the school which has had no communication on this since our last meeting haven't reached out any way shape or form didn't feel off rose really to do so so we're going to offer that to the school are there any thoughts about any we can still pull those other individuals and should you know no clue how the school district does the council have a commitment to moving forward with a committee as well all should the school district not  we spent about twelve twelve fourteen thousand dollars in legal fees on the i think it was twelve or fourteen thousand dollars in legal fees i bring that up because it gives you an idea of how much back and forth there is with saying hey this is what the committee is trying to achieve pass that to the attorney and say can you please put this into trouble and opening up the entire charter and having it reviewed it is that is a thing with that being said i think that there have been some items that defied the from our operational base as you who have narrow that scope and say we're not going to the whole thing we're going to address some of those operational so i have a list of things i would like to change operationally in the charter i think it is very much incumbent on you all to define the parameters of this this is really for the purposes of a public process around all president voting then that is a very different process than having a community conversation about governance and who we are and how our city operates you know just to say a little more about what's up with just saying the charter commissions i've worked on before it is an intense process because there are between the commissions the staff and the legal counsel you go through a process of saying what are what's here value as a community where you trying to achieve  governance then the consultant often goes back and looks at how do other car charters achieve what you're trying to accomplish those options back and narrows down to what's the language in the term so it's kind of a  practice going from communities to best practice to live with your charter that's a that's a very different process than what you are talking about the things i specifically i don't if i just know what city operations would like to see this isn't about what the community may want to see from the values perspective you've heard he said like to take the word citizen out of the charter i think it's a misnomer of how we're doing business attorney refers to our volunteer fire department which we don't have we have a paid on call department as we try and modernize and professionalize that department i think right which clarity helps our charter also and similarly in the professionalization vein our charter calls out that the manager is the personnel director the manager will always have hiring and firing authority so that doesn't the need to hold that title with the manager i think the manager should be able to delegate out that you don't still holding the hiring and firing power i think that would again build up  those are very operational in the weeds want evenings those may not be the thing you know if you think about i think the way the mayor outlined this is about process next step outreach timeline is a good way to think about and if you're committed to moving quickly to march part about what we're doing right some people say well this time while i'm getting into march is the most important thing to me checking on their responses are the most important thing to me and some people think why i think it's most important the process and content is the most is done and then we back into what the timeline originals like understood there's going to be very opinions so yeah i do think that the next question would possible speed you can potentially open up the posting and try to have recommendations for a committee but next time you could also take the two weeks have you know how the person go off give people a chance to files applications choose choose the composition of the committee and the next but the council liaison's and the him potentially have work back from the school district as well  needed to we could we could pull a special you know a special meeting in response to the need i think it would need to be very limited and very you know these are the things that have trouble you know wrapping up perfectly here is that because that's has been such a big issue i do feel slightly conflicted on land that she's not here to be part of the selection process not because i have name particular inclination that she would or wouldn't want to be part of the body but she did you know express interest in the committee or i do know that i mean we do have you know we all have lives too but we do have these still some meetings that a certain time we've got to make decisions other council and so i think you'd be really include important to include people who had more distributions with moving it forward from the november time why so that we can have representation on the committee so i think you know i'm fine if how it's really  is going to do your work and any documents i have i would just ask that that group particularly in writing the post for the for the positions i mean the way that i've been thinking about this is kind of as a continuation of questions we've already raised and that is an item in this package is there so can we agree that those are those of the two limiting things at this juncture that if there are any other items that arise during the review that we would like that body to bring those back to council before chasing them down the road too far back so those are the two just that include the citizen change that has been discussed or bring it back to you i do think that that was included in the list of things that was that was addressed i mean that was proposed in the what's missing in outreach efforts instead of us going through each one in our if if completed will these satisfy the council in terms of efforts and energy to engage the community other it between now and the end of january we will also be doing public outreach and for public hearings on the budget a bond vote per garage potentially the master plan charter and housing policy grants that's a lot of community outreach so we may want to think about how we tell that story to make some friends between those things are i think the means can get really tired  yeah giving you know more here back maybe from the school district two in terms of feedback from the process and with this is all of you share this document with them and say of i think it's so first off i understand that we do need to give them guidance and timeline but i don't want to be in a situation again where we have expressed support for a certain date and then we find ourselves not ready to move forward with that and then we have a lot of folks feeling gjelten about it and i would be very i would not be in support of committing to option one for the timeline also given all the other things that are going on that jesse just mentioned and frankly more towards option four like i would like to give them a timeline of why we would like to see where you are at this date with this information or you know can you get through this by the states and then from there with the expectation that like if we have  resolved everything we need to if we have not had all the public outreach we need to that this could extend further the time commitment is very contingent upon this so if somebody asks what is the time commitment if if you were to say option one harm fast and that's it they better volunteer manager the one thing you don't want to do is not you know not continue to push them or give them opportunities to engage so i could see if it continues on for a long time people follow it off and then we've got to go back to revive the committee and so i just worry about that process i think there's ample time but also i don't i right now this is something that a lot of committee member earth community members even are really in tune to that engaged with we all heard from people from different perspectives on th using that date as a time line for work is ok as long as we are very clearly communicating that we have not committed to putting this on the town the ballot that we are investigating the action to for my perspective would be to convey to them that we are open to having you know the march ballot to have them look at the schedule and give us the i wa you know there can be no middle to member before you get that response that i think you could be valuable for the committee to really come up with the work play and you know what really yeah and we need to find out getting feedback from committee members is being able to share with them here these are the items that we need we want you to investigate this is the time to do so because of the public hearing scheduling so just so i'm clear what we're hoping to move forward with how it will be in point on is sometime this week put out the posting for the commission members for the next council meeting bring potentially appointments yes yes in the dish if it's not too much trouble you know sometimes those are live streaming looking for paul but he's usually the point person on those com intent to actually interview candidates and if so we should really blossom time like next week and get the posting out tomorrow for applications due on tuesday to schedule interviews on thursday of next it any further than that i think the important piece you know when it comes to public recognition of the fact is to say to him know that you know this is a process that we're all hearing to i can guarantee you with a thousand percent certainty that there will be somebody who will smooth out the cation who like it so it will be upset about that and wall have preferred that there be some additional public process  think you guys have to take ownership of those give live interviews or anything like that would be i would think we would want to limit the impact of staff as much as possible wall you know that there's actually a thing