but they're both the commission else place called a challenge the breadth of the subject matter classification you get the forty eight grand treated as a separate class of good overall margin with respect to paper so there was no separate ruling made in issuing a separate dumping margin with respect to forty eight gram paper versus dumping morally and as i understand it he didn't object to that he didn't say well wait a second meeting the underlying data supports you have separate treatments here and let's not wrap this all up into one margins for the fifty five grand and the forty eight grand since you can't have it both ways if you're getting a much lower margin close date factored in the naked dumping margin for the forty eight gram paper so you're getting the six point five percent number is much more worth than what the number would be if it were only examining five fifty five grand paper so you can get the six point five percent number as applied to both later on you would have had to seems appeal it right then and there  single joint treatment of the two isn't appropriate you should at least issue two separate dumping margins for each of the separate goods but we're not going to argue we are arguing that there should have to sever margins no because you want to get the six point five percent number for the fifty five grand paper so you don't want to argue two separate margins because the margin it would actually apply to fifty five grand paper is much much higher all the margins on eleven fifty one other than the one you pointed me to for forty future was just the opposite cloris this is becoming more popular in the market right well doesn't that mean additional only rash one shot then you'll be out of just dumping is in the record that the i p c c has before the proceedings conducted by commerce so the question then becomes whether some in your think you're going to dispute it and say i don't think i think that's what the record clearly shows so he's got a really compelling set of facts i guess but i was hoping to or use that is if we decide that way in this case the problem becomes there might best skiing for you in the industry and for the regulators here to do a sophisticated economic analysis see what is the product that's really being sold in the marketplace and then look at the dumping margin is retracted because the as mr farron seems to think will happen would it be appropriate for the i t c to reverse the and now all they do fit the classification but the little market sophistication and analyzing these goods which show there's no dumping margin for the bulk of the material it would be eternally unsophisticated  where there would be competition why would why would commerce blind itself close its eyes to the fact that near east this underlying data maybe it's not a someone stands in your shoes and there are twenty out extend a class and for one of them something on a printout she was a negative margin we're now saying the i t c has to do a separate behind the scenes analysis with regard to every single one of them that that it's apples to apples but usually in most cases the entire tradition doesn't turn on to huge lead different trends on two different products now if the i own says there is a hugely different trade on this road product in five other products there's not that trend on it's fair game for the other side to say the entire class that l t debbie p paper didn't say for fifty five and it said it made a holding there was dumping across the entire class and came up with the weighted average and so aren't i going to have to ask the i t c to go behind that to go behind commerce in every instance this would've been a much easier case i guess if there was some way you could have argued some class or something about the commerce determination as your would have loved to have done for the re asking me to find to agree with you that there is no record evidence to support the idea that forty grand paper was dumped and my problem with that is that's not an amorous held and you just told me that's not what the i t c is supposed to do either so why shouldn't you had repealed that fact no matter how blatantly wrong it is and we might all be able to see it why shouldn't you have been appealed that fact finding directly from commerce it's your closing counsel