resident live at unity lane i prepared a statement today i would like to read her excellent i sit here before the select board today to address the centerline rumble strips on north williston road in light of the who are memo and in conjunction with the select boards vote tonight to adopt the m u t cd which is the manual for the utilization of traffic control devices i am asking this like court to take action and repave northwestern road from uni lane extending approximately zero point two five miles north bound i believe you've all received a copy of the horror memo in the agenda packet for tonight the war memo states that the contractor hired to install the rumble strips did exactly as the west india intended meanwhile the fact stands that the document that went through due process the documentation the wilston duty submitted to the select board does not have rumble strips starting approximately in the same location in which they are now installed the wilston d o d explains that this misunderstanding is simply a distortion on their map they will list in the o t did not inform the public they intended to install room strips at this location and a public that is misled cannot have informed debate the letter further states that citizen's opinions aren't always consistent with best design practices for safer roads at the last meeting i did not issue my opinion i pointed out the simple fact that rumble strip installation was not done according to publicly available prints or to the aristide recommendation wilson d o t has highlighted safety to defend its actions in response to their safety claim i defer to the federal highway agencies best practices and the manual for utilization of traffic control devices these documents demonstrate that the wilston duty's actions have actually reduced safety on this road segment particularly for  bicyclists this is an opposition with the select board's desire to make northwest and road a safer bike corridor furthermore the federal highway agency's best practices are intended to prevent an installation in this exact location the federal highway agency would consider this road to be an unwarranted public news public disturbance since the d o t states the only remedy is repaving northwest and road i remain optimistic that the select board will take immediate corrective action prior to the close of two thousand and eighteen paving season bullet points that i want to bring up here in regards to safety they these are the key points that came out of my research and a center line rumble strips there are two important definitions the first is the location of the road the location of the road extends from unity lane zero point two five miles north bound that would be the segment that we are discussing the second is the curve within that segment of road which is defined as a sharp curve it was designed to excuse me i had extremely tired i haven't slept well in a month or so on my speech isn't great the sharp curve is referenced in the whore memo he defines it as a sharp curve and it's further supported by the federal highway agencies geometric design standards for roadways the key points about center line rumble strips each point that i give will be cited i unfortunately was unable to print enough memos for everyone i centerline rumble strips any rumble strip that does not go into the line of travel is a launch a juvenile rumble strip so the manual contains no provisions regarding the design or placement of longitudinal rumble strips the reason they do not include requirements for these rumble strips is because there is still debate within the f h w a if rumble strips are a legitimate form of traffic control furthermore they have not made a determination on whether or not they are even effective traffic control devices an claim the duty has to the efficacy of rumble strips as traffic controlling or calming devices is not supported by the federal highway agency r s g s presentations have all stated that rumble strips have no effect on vehicle say for bikes and pedestrians the f h to be way states and i quote it effectively moves vehicles closer to the bicyclists who may be traveling on the outer edge of the lane is recommended agencies maintain at least fourteen feet of pavement be on the edge of the centerline rumble where the vehicles and bicycles are expected to share northwestern road is a designated by corridor r s g and the c c r p c that you can county regional planning commission both state the road needs to be widened to improve bike safety outside of very specific types of accident prevention the f h to be weight does not make any claim that centerline rumble strips make roads safer the accident history study at the sharp curve location in northwestern road did not demonstrate a history of crashes that could have been prevented with centerline rumble strips the f h to view a does not believe that centerline rumble strips are appropriate for narrow pavement regardless of bike traffic north williston road meets the minimum road with standard for collector roads it was also again deemed by our s g and c c r p c to be too narrow both groups should jest a wider road the f h to be away which is the federal highway agency states that agencies should discontinue rumble strips in the vicinity of intersections and major driveways note peterson lane is in the center of this sharp curve rumble strips are not discontinued for this intersection the f h w a states that placing cent on rumble strips in tight horizontal curves requires additional consideration horizontal caricatured can produce additional incidental contact and associated noise with the rumble strips due to drivers intentionally cutting the curve short this is especially true where the operating speeds do not correlate with the super elevation which is if the road is banked or not and as we all know this curve is not banked or withers percentage of large vehicles is high  the states that corners with high volumes of large vehicles such as dump trucks care should be taken and i quote care should be taken when installing centerline rumble strips encouraged roadways as their tire size and weight causes considerable noise and they are often forced off track around sharp curvature the federal highway agency points to states that prohibit the installation of rumble strips on moderate to sharp curves that are in the vicinity of any residences there are three residents in the vicinity of the sharp curve the whore memo is certs the fact that the strips are now in place and acting as intended was that would suggest they are in the right location but the f h give you a contradicts this claimant states multiple times that sharp curve installations do not improve safety and only serve to generate nuisance noise as cars intentionally cut the  curve proposal does not demonstrate rumble strips are warranted in this exact location of peterson lane it omits rumble strips from this location their final presentation states clearly rumble strips have not been shown to reduce speeds the wilston duty staff map that they made publicly available also omits rubble strips in this location the paperwork without the rumble strips receive the slack board votes the f h a presentation continues studies have and quote studies have shown that when rumble strips x and approximately six hundred fifty feet prior to residential urban areas the noise impacts are tolerable at a distance of sixteen hundred feet the noise generated from rumble strips is negligible note this implies that a distance less than six hundred fifty feet from installed rumble strips the noise impact is intolerable there are three homes within six hundred fifty feet of the sharp corner installation the sound is designed to carry long distances with strong penetration power the f h to the way describes how the design of rumble strips is disturbing to residents they provide best practices to avoid unnecessary noise by not following these best practices the willesden to untolerable noise that is designed specifically to wake up and alert drowsy people this harms local residents sleep quality and as we are all aware of the research including that of the national institute of health that correlate it correlates poor sleep with cardiovascular disease to impair me in response to stroke alzheimer's and other health issues as i said i will forward more in depth analysis to the select board after this meeting i have not had sufficient time to finalize the documents since i realized the core response went online in the meantime r s g and the c c r p c warn the select for the installation of traffic calming measures that are not warranted or backed by independent study opens the ton of fullest and to lawsuits and liabilities had a representative at the meeting who seemed to be aware of this fact the duty employee even reiterated this warning back to the select board the duty actions have reduced safety they do not get here to publish standards r s g hire the company that videotape hired themselves not one that i've hired to do an independent study but this company that the deity hired clearly published finding showing rumble strips at this location are not warranted the duties actions have created a liability for the town of williston i'm aware that this like board is sympathetic to my situation on february twentieth this very group question the cost benefit analysis very important aspect and should be considered however citizens opinions aren't always consistent with best design practices for safe roads i've listed the facts it's not my opinion the rumble strips are not at  approved traffic control devices the federal highway agency and our s g state they will decrease and bicyclists bicyclists safety b f h w a suggest discontinuing the use of rumble strips for any one of the following reasons six hundred fifty feet from residence in sharp curves in front of intersections on narrow roads and in any curve that experiences large vehicle traffic all these reasons combine describe exactly what this section of north williston road near peterson lane is t provided misleading information to the public they implement the traffic control devices at a location without public debate or select board approval it is clear the willesden d o t did not follow best practices approved by the federal highway agency wilston d o t ignored the the expert advice of the team they hired i assert that the wilson d o t needs to remedy this con safe public nuisance prior to the close of the two thousand and eighteen paving season you this is a copy of what i read like i said i have not been able to formalize my final document i did email this to our s g a email me back saying that i captured their justice really looks at the person holistically and not just of the crime and you know as people you know are complex humans and it allows people to be held accountable to their community in a way that i think promotes in the counseling program a v m ok and i have just finished my school counseling to be but still working towards my mental health degree and we are working with the burlington and school district and looking at their start of practices in their public schools and looking at how effective they've been and helping them flush out a little bit ok so i get so your focus sing on on the on the bridges goes when i heard the u t m research team i was curious if you v m had a program that looks at restored of justice not specifically i just misinterpret there are aspects of the u v in community that are looking more at restoring justice for sure yeah i was it for me for the questions it's a great of talks about how we can come together and create more you know movable towns and connective towns and engage community partners so i come from that aspect of wanting to just engage community partners and have more connected towns and when i moved here a year ago i moved here because of all the parks and all the wonderful rec programs and how everything is connected i came from underhill and it's it's disconnected i mean program so could you just maybe spend a second saying what you love about it and maybe what you have discovered that you think could use some work i really enjoy like the comprehensive programs that they have  comprehensive list of things to offer very easy troops they have adult they have aging population and they have the under generation a lot of youth programs as for what i would grow with that i feel like there's a lot of wonderful free community resources that i couldn't help happen to you just within my knowledge of being in a self management program and knowing wh other resources are out there with my working with community partners in my current role and my job so feeling i could help connect that a little bit more to see what we can offer wilson and what other programs out there thank you lead applicant for our the c d p vermont community development program grant application for the old north end community center at the st josephs the old st joseph school in burlington we actually applied in janet december january  they considered it in june we were not funded the three hundred thousand that we requested but they encouraged us to come back partly the reason we weren't funded was because we hadn't gotten close enough to our fundraising goal our goal is t point two million we had raised one point three when we met with them we're now one point seven and the net the board hearing will be in november although the application is due in september so will be that much closer to feeling really good about it we're here to ask if you would on reapply and questions from the board regarding the project maybe to eric just is it basically just to reapplying with the same forms a new dates that we did project itself is still the same if by the time they consider the next one you might be i think they're look very very close that's what that's what my fundraising folks are telling me they have great confiden basically the most significant changes have been to condense the background information in the plan as was requested so in several sections  so in under local regulations i took out a whole section where i'm just describing the by a lot of regulations related to the rural residential district and instead of just citing that information i just make a rough on page seventeen sections title geology and natural communities are combined into a single section titled features of ecological significance and this new section basically takes information from the recent ecological report that was completed by the remote land trust when they did their assessment of the property in twenty seventeen and cut out the section titled rare the plan and then the section up land wildlife habitat has also been condensed and then other other oh yeah and then let's see the project backgrounds three paragraphs were deleted just after the educational uses subsection because they repeat information presented elsewhere so i  believe those are all the areas where the plan's been condensed other changes made notably on page nine under the administration of the catamount community forest  the committee has made a write a strong recommendation to appoint a standalone committee to oversee the management of the catamount community forest when discussing this with the conservation commission they expressed that it would be overly burdensome for the conservation commission to be the sole manager of the catamount community forest  and that it would hinder their ability to get other work done if they had this responsibility because it is pretty pretty big having a standalone committee would also  on this or this so i get that i get the point about the conservation commission is hesitant to take on this responsibility and i also get the point that when i first read this as like wait why not the conservation commission i don't get it we have other public we have other conserved land that allow recreation activities on it but it doesn't have its own separate board but you explain it from a workload standpoint it is a valid point that just to have conservation you know orientated folks people are appointed to be on the conservation commission because permit of the conservation of use maybe that isn't the most appropriate group to oversee this community forest what does what do you envision or what does the committee envision as the make up of this committee i mean how many people who would who would be sought to be on it that type of thing and i think that the the make up of this current committee i think at the outset we we tried to have multiple stakeholder groups represented and they are or they were represented however i think this committee could be a little more balanced have more balanced representation and might and probably should be smaller like limited to seven or balanced but sm e perhaps somebody from the planning commission if one of you wanted to sit on the committee that would be great you know so town committees and then a more what make up of it yeah when do you envision this being done so i think you know soon after the town acquires property would make sense happen idea of the time scale now do we know with the funding situation is the financing issue or an update actually i may have it was in the manager report i think they're about sixty thousand short is it  a very close at the moment came where we use that there's a number of different ways that she may be able to come up with the money and it's optimistic that that will happen there's a number of other things  impacting us but that could easily affect the closing date on the property so i tried to get a date for today and she said it was she or her she said she hopes to do it by i have the closing before the end of this hunting we received some public comment from vermont fish and wildlife staff who felt that the language in in c in the last paragraph was somewhat misleading and  offensive pages that is on page thirty four so basically the language dealing with the ratio of hunters in the state to game warden and you know just just conjecture about their ability to you know enforce hunting regulations that that was objectionable to member of the you know that section too much and then in the action schedule some items were added by request a and c so an action item was added at the request of vermont fish and wildlife to begin monitoring the deer winter area under the guidance of fish and wildlife department and then also by request of vermont land trust and action to say year one instead of twenty thousand year to instead of twenty nineteen just in case you know just to give the town more flexibility depending on when the closing actually happen other questions from you and me for any attempt to get any further public input we have not done anything other than post it on the website we are open to any direction you might have for us make greater efforts to publicize that it's posted so we're you know we're open to some direction maybe we can ask eric as our local television specialist town cheerleader can what would you suggest to do there to get to get the word out because you know you want to get some involvement and get feedback  and you know perhaps it could be more like just asking what it is that that that the residents or the public wants you know in the future like what what kinds of that would be great if you would do that you know so i am still disappointed we didn't embrace some of the other activities but i understand we're still open to looking at those in the future so that's why i want to see public input some process or one of the things it's disappointing is how little public input we get sometimes for big activities this is the biggest acquisition the town has done is that terry quite a bit talking about this for two years a property here so so i think you are you looking for more public input before we know i have to go this is kind of for the future because you know to start getting public input you know is because as i think melinda stated last time it is a stagnant thing right this is just a starting point no it's a it's a living document so perhaps if the permanent committee is established that might be on something i have to get the committee formed and figure out what we wanted to do small amount of time i think that's one of the lessons we learned his you know good and bad you know congratulations to them for getting this far but that was a he taught us asked i done basically we were interested in speed we talk about traffic calming can be for multiple purposes but the issue brought to us was this concern about speeding in the neighborhood our task was to assess the the magnitude of the problem and propose alternative solutions this is the area that we're considering we have mountain view road at the north end route to wilson wrote the south can see it's a connection between mountain view and route to my past for some people when they're they're having trouble traveling north south on two way and so in addition to looking at speeds we did take a peek to see if in fact there's a lot fairly generous you're in a parking stall the parking stalls probably eight feet wide so you can imagine thirty feet you could have three in four cars going down that road so that much space makes a driver feel what we saw a couple numbers here each location the new chamberlayne at the south end and what's at the north there's the average speeds we observed in here the eighty fifth percentile speeds typically when you're setting us a speed  limit you work with the eighty fifth percentile speed you know some people are going to go over the speed i'm just just a fact of life you deal with it is i for the eighty fifth percentile fifteen percent people be scofflaws to live with that try to satisfy the eighty five percent so we would like to see this number of match up with the speed limit of twenty five miles per hour as you can see with thirty three thirty four thirty two were were well over the designated speed limit even the average speeds came in above the speed limit in and out of that neighborhood the kind of area circled in blue where blue we count rooftops for a map and say well can we know how many trips a day or two trips in our household generates so we can count the houses and estimate how many people should be coming in and out of the circle by county neither and we compared it to when we found out that generally the number of cars coming into the neighborhood matches the number that we would expect due to the number of houses that are there  actual number ending was a little bit higher so we would estimate you know ten to twenty vehicles maybe or are sneaking through on the day that we did our survey which we think was a typical day but there could be days when something's happening on two way where it's a lot worse other days it may be better but this isn't one day this was used to sing one day survey yes now we were out there a multiple days doing different things other counts just field observations watching  the principal focus of the study again we're looking mostly at speeds but we just wanted to get an idea of what was going on from a cut through perspective and we we kind of saw this is not a major issue there are just people passing through but it's not the dominant flow traffic planes being used as a major thoroughfare it doesn't seem to be you know  so after looking at the speed data we've basically held a community meeting to see what solutions might make sense the concern being i can put some ideas on on the table that may be very effective but i'm not driving through it every day it's the residents who live there they have to deal with it so what may seem like a good idea to terms of slowing down traffic may be a bad idea if you have to drive over yourself every day or have to live next to it and there's maybe there's some noise associated with that treatment such as a speed bump vehicles going over the bump pool will make a little bit of noise you just speed humps a little different there but so we wanted to put ideas out from the community and let them react them knowing that we don't have all the answers that the answer for one neighborhood would be different for another so we let let them give us something back and we put a couple of options on the table in front of them and to be honest the first one showing you the speed hump was actually at the preferred strategy for the neighborhood residents that came to speak to us and we had had a very good turnout of so twenty five thirty people so it was a well attended meeting and we were we were impressed that were against in front of or around where the speed homes were being proposed yes yes we had the conversation with people you know would you want this in find a house in the city by all means it was it was very not that everyone's go let's do this let's let's not let the noise whatever issues stand in the way so speed up was what was preferred we did you know offer them what they call a speed cushion looks like a speed through for the fire truck and get through not have to slow down if they're in a hurry or chicanes where you build and the road these these little islands that forces you around and it makes basically makes it a one way road for a short segment so traffic cas possibly from the cut a clear coming the other way very effective but also inconvenient the center median is another way to slow things down by diverting the traffic left or right as opposed to a hump that makes you go up and down the idea is just the driver making feel uncomfortable going too fast another quick curve extension just kind of narrow the road people told us that on occasions they would park on the street even though they have a two car driveway and garage they'd park on the street make it a little narrower their kids are out playing that day they want to help slow the traffic down this this is sort of a permanent solution in that same vein and even the speed feedback might be and the cost what it might cost the town to implement some of those things so again we try to explain the community to the positives than negatives the trade offs and they surrounded around the idea of  and then the issue was ok how many and where and based on their feedback we put together this sort of i thought our recommended approach as opposed to a plan again we haven't nailed down the exact locations those of a lot more  work would have to happen to do that you don't want to put it obviously in front of someone's driveway or next to a driveway if there's a catch basin that's collecting storm water you need to know where that is the speed humps can function as a dam and reste restrict the flow of water along the street so there's details that need to be ironed out but conceptually what we're suggesting is on the straightaway sections where we've where we've documented higher speeds to look at to speed h and spacing optimally is about five hundred feet you don't want to go much longer than that on you don't want to get too much narrow in that the other thing to consider is we've got a stop sign at one end and this is this is you know you'll be here just open orientation we've got the traffic circle we've got another stop sign we're going to drive comes in and of course stop sign again up and this and you think those things are traffic calming devices as well you've got to come to a stop sign are certainly going to slow down so the spacing of these we kind of as speed humps as well and when you do the a v five hundred feet we think we can make two humps work on this section two humps would work on the straightaway section on brennan which drive and again ironing out the details on this could move forward and would be responsive to the community com mance in the data that we have on hand now there's a third section here with the speed home shown which is a little different in the context of we didn't have any speed data for that segment so we can't say with any certainty that people are speeding or not but the people who came to the meeting were adamant that there were issues there as well and felt that there should be a consideration for doing something at the northern end of brennan which drive again we're we're working with your public works towards a policy that says you know we'll look at these issues but no action until there's there's proof or there's evidence so our sentiment is that's a possibility but there needs to be another speed survey done to determine where there's a real issue out there we would move forward with that but if you were again i think you can get you know within five hundred feet or one other couple of speed humps and that would effectively slow traffic on that last little straightaway straightaway has no residences or if that's next to the bri it is and it was interesting because i as i mentioned i actually sat there and did the car out of the mountain view and was looking over my shoulder at what was going on at the ball field you know traffic was moving pretty quick profile and  then a couple of ball games were starting and people were first filled the parking lot that's there and then they spilled over onto the street and there was enough on street parking that people were going through there very slowly actually can see you there looking for parking space or just concerned about the cars being on the road kids getting in and out of cars so the activity itself tended to slow traffic down when you wanted to move slowly when there was no ballgame people maybe driving faster then again you don't have kids in the in the area as well supposed to be used for traffic calming what he meant to say was that you know by them being there they're defacto you know they're made people stop so they're calling traffic but you should not use stop signs for traffic calming device and those aren't proposed stop signs though those are what are out there today because the personally warranted for other purposes to make the intersections operate safely feet wide traffic was over thirty miles an hour residents are their cars on the street when their kids are flying on the street not routinely but some of the people came to our meeting said that they have done that on occasion but didn't see the kids were playing in the street and not in not playing in the street no but it was just the times when the kids p p l in the yard whatever in the neighborhood and they they felt they could help make traffic move slower they put their car on the are there's not that many cut through vehicles to suggest that it's outsiders who are speeding it's people who who live there and just aren't being very thoughtful and these types devices remind them to maybe be a better neighbor there were some other come in so she made about the people not as you mentioned people are not coming through the great numbers are not coming through the area and it isn't cost effective for the town to put in speed bumps to regulate something that could be regulated by themselves so well so what was there i don't have it in front of me but you know she suggested placing speed tables in upper britain would drive past the roundabout well also drive people to hang a left at the roundabout in use hanon drive as well as pushing the problem off to another street within the same neighborhood she did she did say that to me today and we've been we've heard that that we've heard that before and one of my comments to sarah today was that maybe true but i don't believe that and i'm not trying to shoot myself in the foot here but i don't believe that's going to be true in a winter time  drive but i mean it could very well happen and any time you do traffic calming somebody is not going to wake up and try to find a different way to do we know how much noise you mention they cause noise and that you're supposed to be doing over a noise is an issue it's the brain that aren't going to do that speed limit over them but certainly they can bounce their car but you don't want to go the speed limit over them i mean there's some unself burlington a short slower than the speed you know you have to go slower than the speed limit over those unless this is something different at these a speed humps which again you can you can design it for the speed limit over the one self burlington you're going to make noise the especially if you have a truck with anything in it or in our hands which ones i put most of them hands out for a long time so if you told me what street you're talking about i mean it's next to the auto dealer keep in mind and you know that the premise that people going to divert the hand and drive is again we we think these are people in the neighborhood or on these roads so if you live in the neighborhood you're most likely not going to most people are going to drive over all for speed humps you'll go over one or two and then you'll be home twenty which direction are coming from so yeah if you look at the plan and you see six speed humps and think oh my god i'm going to hit all six you might want to look for an alternate route but if you realize that no i'm only going from a to b and i'm not going all the way through the neighborhood i'm going over one or two of them make every day that's more bearable if you slow down when you get there and you don't think about taking an alternate route and the speed on speed tables are supposed to be put in so that you can do the twenty five miles an hour over there oh yeah that's them in order to keep you at twenty five miles an hour not to allow you to go now doesn't mean i'm not going to do that there's probably some that may be a little higher or whatever that you feel like you need to slow down want to keep close enough that people don't speed up in between but far enough apart so that it's not too costly to put him in bumps even though six are shown ok and analysis down the road will show whether the additional two might be warranted ok so and the cost is about fifteen eighteen thousand per speed is that yes is that i really that i just will make sure i'm reading this correctly so we're looking at sixty to eighty thousand it sounds like for the installation of these speed earlier budget when would if hypothetically were to say yes tonight or in the near future when would we be they'd be able to be installed and how would we pay for the we get a little bit better cost is that we don't dictate that they get to be here this time around this time it's a they've got to be done by november thirtieth or never ever ever for anything yeah ok that's a pretty wide but that's when it would be done i would certainly put it out as part of our regular paving to try to get a better number that we will drive to drive the cost of our asphalt number up because quite frankly they don't want to do o but if they want to have five hundred thousand dollar contract to possibility of grants being applied for for these kind of things study you've done the due diligence with the neighborhood you've gone and basically the majority or this was the most preferred option this kind of it this seems like there's no rush i mean we have to go through the whole budget process first so i mean i like the idea of maybe between t v or the media is on the run a story and  still recommending basically that we go with the report which is to do nothing through that neighborhood but to talk a little bit more about the manual for human traffic control devices again that if anything else is might be considered make sure been some suggestions about moving the stop sign from the corner village grow over to the corner of maple where it runs east to west and  if if anybody were to consider doing that certainly we did we would have to have a study done see if it even warrants a stop sign and then if it did i would also have to be realigning that intersection because it's the way it goes now mabel road was there and good cause was built into it so to make it a true t intersection it would take some work on maple road and basically split maybe one or two roads you may end up renaming  part of a road just because you don't normally have a road to goes in and makes a ninety degree bend usually you change out of the rehab we have i'm sorry but your study right now says do nothing that's what the report says to do what we have said that you know there are some you know there are some signs out there that could be used which are the share the road signs that we could put up maple road just you know let people know that there are other people that travelers know there are the people using that road there's no there's no such thing as children at play or watch out for children signs or anything like that anymore that's basically what th was just to point out that there was some consideration of this is a possible solution short term anyway to see what happens with it if we get yes i move to accept the recommendation that we share the r enforcement is another certainly but that has its limits because you can't have police officers on every street in there all day long and soon as they're gone people tend to school faster when they're not around  and certainly is an important part of an overall program so given the fact that we seem to be getting more and more of the use and i think that trend will probably continue all useful for the board to consider adopting a approach as i thought this would be an easy thing to put together and turns out it was and so easy there's a lot of different moving parts in and we already have comments from original planning which i think will be useful they not incorporated in here but what i suspect is if the board is interested in pursuing such a policy we'll take the comments from the board and begin the corporate those along with the comments we get from various other groups including regional planning  way to kind of put a river together have a how to classify these issues as they come up will be different responses that are appropriate for each issue so what we've done here to start is as rubric which defines different levels of response and they're calling us to respond to each level these tool box to box measures these larger categories and you'll see as the levels increase from other one level three different toolbox measures are so thinking this is how this process will play out residents group residents contact the town they raise an issue then staff would work to define which lot would fall into everything would start at a level one and that gives staff an opportunity decide if there is further information to gather most likely a traffic speed study then after looking at that falling in level one it would be their education and for then if that study shows you know we should take a closer look at this stuff with the side to your bump it up to level two which adds enhancement level three which adds a formal traffic calming study to stop and put together an implementation plan a situation tonight some of this education pieces may be appropriate treatment for that neighborhood to consider as well seeing as that it's an internal issue in some neighborhoods education might be beneficial for it so then when you go up to level two here you're adding enhancements as signage and kind of what we're calling temporary measures we've talked with the idea of speed humps you can get temporary speed humps as well to put them out on a trial basis get some feedback see if they're making  effect seal what the residents reaction to them is before you're formally committing a capital budget you know that multiple thousands of dollars to make that investment to see if it's going to be worthwhile over time your caviar those are not and one time yes so we're trying to think of different varying levels for this is a start we've kicked a number of ideas around because the other piece i should mention is staff would put together implementation recommendation but if residents were not amenable to that there is an appeal that mechanism we like to put in where a position to be signed by thirty percent of people in the area and for them to appeal that implementation decision to the slack board have further dialogue so i think all  of the issues those cause will point why why the past get here but let me finish so to to make sure that we we come back and analyze why we ended up with the solution we did if it's these problems and there's a certain other set of facts that oppose the facts that we were told which incented us to approve putting those those in so they're going to make sure if we come up with a policy it's a good policy  and that we don't end up with issues at the end of the day it prevents this kind of situations so that would be my feedback and that's one of the things that was hoping to accomplish with  we end up with a decision after we've gone through the various steps here it's one that the majority of people could accept and it's i mean it's not just the majority but you can't you can't create something that causes a problem for you know keeping you know may be driving people out of their homes as well and i don't know you know i'm not i'm not making a comment on the specific situation but we have to make sure that we we basically goes through the process i think bruce went through i think that he shared with us through to to do what he did with north wilson i wrote so i would say that maybe we need a little more here so  things things are going to happen wrong and i don't think a policy is going to change that fundamental fact of nature but that being said i think we should have a policy and i do one concern that i always have with things like this is you have a policy that is not specific enough and it doesn't help you have a policy that's too specific and it can be used to gum up the works when there's a obvious common sense solution point because we'd like so much input as we can get a little we get that the public feedback well i think that it is a big topic in many everything i know it's a topic in my neighborhood and we've never solved it so other than you know ugly means and that is you know people having to call the police on certain people when we speed and by the way that does solve the problem it's an comfortable thing for neighbors to do to neighbors but it actually does a problem but there that talks about how these will be paid for talks about you know there's a cost but that's all it says is there will be a cost and i wonder if there should be any thought given to paying for these after the study as we saw tonight is approved or it's been table tonight but to go to future cut the budget when there is money allocated in a future budget that race and maybe it's inappropriate to have it in this policy and i don't know the answer to that but i was looking on is going to have to be a capital budget item or is it going to be something we can do out of the operating budget and maybe the answer is we don't know you can't determine that and thus it's not part of the policy and that's a finance i just was wondering if how we're going to pay for it should be part of the so i think the consensus is that we want to continue to work on the on the plane of the policy during the course of your week so if you have any thoughts  we are using it and the promo strips are in there i wasn't aware of that i'm going to find out for sure not that i'm saying somebody isn't correct and i'm also going to find out why and if that's the case why they were put in a report that we were given to be used and i would appear that way but the but the manual for you from traffic control devices is basically the manual adopted by the state of vermont and i would and i think we concurred that needs replacing so we haven't done anything with it since then partly because it just kept falling lower on the purtiest and things are getting moved up a little bit discontinue that's the way we have it set up we don't understand right now with a whether they have an opinion on this well we back when we talk about the seven years ago they did have an opinion they were ok and then the other piece of this is the town would be responsible i mean it sounds to me like no matter what the town will be responsible for replacing that covert at the price of some ten to fifteen thousand as it sits today is not in bad shape and may be undersized in for that kind of reason it may need to be changed but it's not where i appear on the list of projects for us to go down and do we were saying we replace we would the new store more rules and all the things anyway now so the proposal isn't a permit we got to make up life when it's a two to three foot covert now depend upon who's measured but we have a permit from  if there was a problem down the road would with the town be liable and anyway because we're the ones who installed the culvert these are just things that i would want to know before we vote on this in ok it's a part of someone's driveway and i still just feel and i need to be comfortable and this will be answered as part of the site visit to ok on a non blocking night this time i said well i think we're hoping for early and they would maintain their roads and we had to maintain ours some towns some towns that's their whole highway budget  top not so bruce you recommend that you said that the coverage isn't a problem it's not going to fall apart but it's undersized for irene hundred year storm i don't know what irene is one hundred or two hundred year storm so the idea is is to replace this as a goodwill gesture to get them to agree to this is already been we will have to replace it at some point i understand if it if we weren't doing this it's not you know at the it's both that the the culvert does have to be replaced it is the town's property right now so we might as well eat that cost because we're going to have to sooner or later anyway no mess we'll put it in the same thing as discontinuing the road because the town gets fundamentally no actual benefit from having this is a town road does it does continue to expose us to liability because under my recollection is an under state statute towns  not other than that towns have a lot of sovereign immunity where they can't be sued because of governmental stuff but i says no but that being said it's a that's a very tiny thing in my analysis was the right thing to do newspaper article in the observer that may have been somewhat misleading the it's kind of leftist leaders with the feeling that you're proposing to change the time clerks position from  if we were to approve the going forward with those that would be reviewed by legal counsel i presume and then if we were to put it on the ballot for march and it was approved that allows the town to adopt it if we get a positive vote from the voters of us the last part of it everything else goes before it gets to the legislature has to have approval in order for  items to touch on here  r the day to total estimated damages twenty five thousand so will be getting about twenty three thousand back from that so that's some good news for local t also we've been approached by a different matter by of rising wireless about the possibility of leasing some space inside the steeple on the old brick church we are i've set up a meeting with the rising officials next week we're involving the old birch tourists trustees in on the discussion they've already given us the questions and concerns they have so we'll be working through that agreement they they come up with what would they pay the town and how long is the term you know i don't know the answer to the length of the turnover the preliminary number i saw it was twenty four thousand a year which is not always great  the final numbers are very favorable we ended up with just about three hundred thousand dollars more than we have budgeted and the economy continues on its current path those numbers i'm sure will continue although there are certain concerns out there a one being opening of other places like target but then some of that may be offset by internet sales it's hard to know because the state will not share that information with us they claim that's confidential proprietary information or share any specific numbers so what we what you have is what we well i've meeting with the church representative thursday so i'll have more information i have a sense of what the issue is about but i would like to wait and see what they have to say before i had it was the note i sent you terry on who's in the thing is that something we take off in the executive meeting we should take that up probably at another meeting and discuss where what we would like to know about the issue before and then we can go forward with it from there so we have the last item on the agenda is the clock to baria group of firefighters and rekha sort of information regarding that if we have questions regarding that we would need to discuss that in executive session if we don't have any questions and we're ready to for any reason then we're still negotiating and we don't want to tip our hand to the union as to what the position might be but if the board's inclined to approve it then either way the approval has to take place in public yes yes i guess i do i mean i know nobody wants to go into decade sessions we don't have to but i guess i do have some questions and i noticed jennifer is here too