well the meeting please come to order good morning everyone and happy new year the water resources committee is having its first meeting of the year today is wednesday january sixth and it's approximately four minutes after nine in the morning i'd like to thank everyone for being here crump leave because we've got some exciting work to do today i'd like to remind everyone to please put their cell phones on the mode where we won't hear it ring if it does ring i'd appreciate that so we don't have interruption during our important deliberation today i'd like to introduce them committee voting members that are here this morning i have my vice chair mike vick to reno on more and happy n come on and on they must be busy with other business this morning they are not required to be here because they're not voting members from the administration we have dave taylor the director of water supply morning agenda folks is the water availability policy better known as show me the water and it's item number is eleven the committee is in receipt of county communication fifteen dash  to nine from presiding officer pro tempore michael vick to reno transmitting the proposed bill entitled a bill for an ordinance repealing the water availability policy the purpose of the proposed bill is to repeal the show me the water law ordinance number three five zero two two thousand and seven as amended by ordinance numbers thirty thirty eight eighteen twenty eleven thirty nine thirty four twenty twelve and forty one fifty eight twenty fourteen i want to thank all of the members of the community who have either come out testify or who have submitted written testimony relating to the matter and i have got turn of testimony i i want to explain carefully what we're going to try to do today because i think there is a lot of confusion as to what we're trying to achieve today we are here today your committee to receive testimony on the item that is before the committee and the item that is before the committee is whether to repeal this ordinance or not to repeal this ord it's that simple and cut and dry do we throw out this bill and say this is bad and we don't want anything more to do with it or do we keep it now what i would like to hear from you today those of you that are participating and have got a lot of public testimony and the members have also is where they are with you want to repeal or not repeal but along with that we have received a whole lot of suggestions as to how they would like to see people would like to see the bill amended if we keep it so i want you to keep that in mind that for me number one the decision today is repeal or not repeal if we decide to repeal then it's over we repeal the whole bill it's over there's no point in trying to fix it if we're getting rid of it if we decide not to repeal then of course we need to sit here and spend the time and figure out how can we make this bill better and then we get into getting into amendments so i just want to clarify that because i've received a ton of testimony about fixing why you can't fix it if we're going to repeal it and that's the decision before the committee that is the bill that was introduced people say well it's a big factor in the lack of housing and so i'm glad mike introduced it because it has given us and this committee the opportunity to listen and we've asked everyone to please and we've invited to come in explain to the committee and so the public hears to what effect this bill has had in our community is it a good effect is it a bad effect is it a mixed effect and this with the members of this communique make a decision based on fact  information rather than i heard somewhere so that's what we've been trying to do with this so today again we really need to hear from you should we repeal this bill or should we keep the bill and if we keep the bill you probably want  consular services stay has prepared a comprehensive history of this ordinance with links so if you would like to look at that history if you e mail the water resources committee we can get back to you we have received at least six pieces of written testimony in support and fifty one pieces of testimony in opposition to the repeal now that since that time our total has risen to more than eighty testimonies that have been processed so it's been a whole lot of testimony and the committee has a big decision to make here today so again we're ready to listen to you a copy of the chapter folks it is in your binders for reference along with correspondence dated august twenty fifth with the director's first required report we're going to start public testimony and the testimony will be limited to the item on the agenda today and again i've tried to explain what that item is that them is to repeal or not to repeal if you wish to testify please sign up at the desk located in the eighth floor lobby or at one of the district offices testimonies are limited to three too we have a stablished a connection to the district offices to be fear and we will rotate through each of the sites first of all we'll start with the lead and dennis fernandez do you have anyone good morning chair county council and our community members my name is alex heller and i'm here today in support of our county council discussing sustainable water solutions before they repeal the show me the water policy east now he has received a rain nearly every day for the last two years our government can increase our island's water supply by incentivizing homeowners and developers to invest in green water catchment systems and rain gutters we should collect store and use the rain that falls on our roofs because this is this is a sustainable practice as more and more homes are taken off the water grid our government will have water resources available to invest in infrastructure for new affordable homes if our federal and state governments incentivise solar then it seems reasonable for state and county governments to incentivize rainwater catchment systems and we've heard a lot about this policy affecting it new houses being built but in my opinion i think affordable houses are not being built because the cost per square foot of construction is too high one solution to lorien the cost per square foot of construction is for  elected representatives to ask subcontractors to ways to reduce construction costs and taxpayer projects budget questions should not stop at the end of the fiscal year because our elected officials can learn how to eliminate construction inefficiencies if they asked the right questions and i learned that firsthand myself growing up the son of a landscape contractor for twenty years there are things we can do to eliminate construction costs which will reduce the cost per square foot of construction our representatives can use this feedback to inform the architects and engineers on preferred practices to reduce our construction costs for future tax fair projects good morning and happy new year to you my name is jonathan starr i'm speaking on my own behalf today some of my community service i serve on the state commission on water resource management  chair of operations committee on the at that time autonomous board of water supply the show me the water bill was a very well meeting attempt to try to come to grass with  uneven unlevel playing field where those who have control of the plantation and the successors to those people have been able to convert  agricultural water of well to large development and developers who have a lot of money to spend creating source are able to take that money and create source for large large subdivisions and inefficient type of projects and resort type of projects one of my own desires and wishes over the years i'm a property wanted to build rental housing and an affordable basis for people who work for county state federal the hospital on their salary yes that's impossible to a large extent because of the show me the water bill because it's not a project that generates so much money that it can create its own water system i feel that what we're doing now is  making it harder for the smaller local developers and the projects which are in fill and use less water i feel that if there is a bill regarding our water utilization and priority it should be prioritizing water efficient projects infill projects projects that use lower than the average use in a district and that will  help build housing for the people who live and work on maui and need that housing and will create less large lawns and golf course and resort development which are really not designed for our community thank you very much and aloha for a great two thousand and sixteen members any need to clarify the testimony mr before you before you leave i have a question yes i'd like to synthesize the conversation and i'm trying to get it to focus so what i'm i want to make sure i understood your intent i hear you saying this bill has caused these issues so then if we repeal it do you feel we need to replace it with something else or amend it or can we kind of just get to that i would like to see a strong policy that helps  to create housing and development projects that use our water resources which are precious and finite very sparingly and rewards those who build that kind of constraint other communities and states have done that and are able to be much more efficient and effective with their water resources i spent some time trying to figure out if there was an easy way to amend or modify the bill so that it would become an efficiency bill  of basically a gatekeeper of for the the powerful and and those able to afford expensive water and i wasn't able to figure out personally how to do it though it may be possible by a better mind it is complicated because there are a number of different parts and different pieces of the language and it seems that whenever i tried to find a way to change one it would affect someplace else so perhaps the best path might be to let it go and come back with a better policy if that is difficult then it should be altered but i think that's going to be very difficult thank you very much i appreciate the clarification members anybody else thank you miss water as far as amendments go i would i see that there is a great divide in the community and i'd like to see a bridge built i know in the past when affordable housing was part of projects and wasn't built and there was no way the county had to make that happen that's created some distrust as far as rip repealing this and i'd like to see a coalition of community members and developers sit down and talk it out and i'd like to see some of we desperately need affordable housing and i'd like to see that built as a project first and use what we learn from building such a project to guide the amendment's going forward i refer back to director taylor in two thousand and fourteen when we came within one day of running out of water upcountry  was that was quite an eye opening piece that was in the newspaper and so water it's not only a precious resource we all needed to live but i'm now it's a resource that i believe needs more infrastructure we have a lot of water we need more ways to to capture and i'd like to have the citizens and developers also talk about that subject and i think if we all work together we can come up with a  solution at the same time will will build a bridge to a healthier community where we're where we're all have reason to trust each other and get to know each other better and really build community here in this beautiful place where we live in kew very good morning morning happy new years thank you and they've only on speaking on for the realtors association of maui or fourteen hundred member association recommends that the council eliminate the existing county of available water availability policy at the end of the last meeting on the subject the water director david taylor explained in fact that this is not a necessary rule rather this policy grew out of the assumption that development with draining our last water resources and the pipes would soon run dry that assumption mr taylor explained with based on an extremely conservative conservative analysis of what development was proposed and what water resources remained he described themselves as not coming from that chicken little perspective to further paraphrase the water director the water director indicated we have adequate resources now not only is the existing policy unnecessary it blocks the development of housing much needed housing by targeting subdivisions though so instead of showing me to water our communities asking you show me the housing you could say that the failure to develop of ford wow saying that our of the community can afford was a failure of planning but the mellon plan clearly sets out the number of homes we will need to shelter our community at around thirty thirty thousand new homes by twenty thirty so question so the question is are we going to use the mellon plan as our north star to guide our planning principles and actions are we going to ignore the plan suggests that we need to be building about fourteen hundred homes housing units of some sort a year the plant three years old so that suggest were about three thousand units behind the curve already distance the plan with proved we're not going to make headway towards correcting that deficit by leaving in place a no unnecessary rule that essentially blocks small and medium scale housing development it's not enough this erases policy we're going to we're only going to realise the housing we need if the community starts investing in the requisite water resources and transmission it is in a serious way we have enough water for now but we don't have enough water for to handle the malyon planned and dissipates that's going to take serious focus investment why make that investment because shelter is a fundamental human need thank our eleven and i am testifying on behalf of goal maui a nonprofit entity which advocates for workforce housing for our residents as most of you know the water availability ordinance commonly known as show me the water was an acted in two thousand and seven going on one years now to repeal or revise this law could hardly be called a rush to judgment over this long period of time the county has not produced a new water source i know in central maui i know the county is working on it for instance the expansion at the treatment facility will hopefully be completed in two years if there are no challenges to it or lawsuits filed against it the replacement wells for shaft thirty three should not be considered new source  lani laws that are not working should be changed or replaced show me the water is a serious impediment to the production of workforce housing with a net increase in population of over twelve hundred people per year and a deficit of thousands of housing units accruing it's becoming almost irresponsible to allow this impediment show me the water to continue in its present form at the very least a compromise is needed actually desperately needed yesterday i emailed this committee a proposal which essentially consists of three amendments to our clarification items and the third would exempt market rate units from show me the water if the developer has executed a residential workforce housing agreement with the county i'm also proposing that the engineering report review section currently in the ordinance be retained we had we believe this is a fair and reasonable remedy that incorporates the concerns of a wide range of community interests for the more most part these proposals were actually proposed by the mayor's task force on show the water which started earlier this year your favorable consideration of our proposed amendments would be greatly appreciated so madam chair golmaal is taking the position that amendments that we can a support amendments to this ordinance show me the water we can support amendments we we wouldn't be opposed to repealing the ordinance but more importantly if this ordinance is supported by the community then we should try and improve it thank you thank you members and you need to clarify the testimony was critical of thank you for being here and thank you for your testimony  you mentioned about being part of the mayor's water and form i guess what a task force are and if i recall at our last committee meeting on reviewing the show me the water and he said yes and this was in february of last year and so we thought we would put together a various representatives from the community and and have discussions we opened it to anyone who wanted to come we had the meetings at the mayor's lounge we had four or five meetings from well first of all let me tell you who was on the committee it was  and a representative from ms bice's office and the maori to my representative actually i had initially asked irene boy to be on the committee but then she said  she was going to be moving and then i asked her to recommend a replacement for herself and she recommended michael howden so i called michael who is here today testimony many of them came from the task force the only thing that wasn't voted i mean the only thing that the taskforce did not really vote on was to retain the engineering report section the task force actually recommended that that be deleted but i'm here as cool molly and go feels that should be retained in the ordinance if you do not repeal it ok thank you for that clarification thank you thank you mr privilege any further need to clarify saying no thank you it's all too rare that a law embodied is simple common sense and in my opinion show me the water is exactly that so i am here to urge you not to tamper with it in any way please don't amend it don't repeal it you know there are plenty of good arguments for this law it took three years fourteen hearings and nine drafts to get it right in you're all aware that there's a project called mckeel a rural community that's proposed for west maui i live in where that project would go and i'm horrified by the prospect that the developers would not need to demonstrate sufficient water for the new development especially since they are proposing to draw from the same water source that supplies the existing homes on that mountainside so i'm grateful that the county had the wisdom in the foresight to create the show me the water law in the first place so i implore you to do the right thing and leave it just the way it is thank you very much members and you need to clearly i think think you  buffalo springfield something's happening here and while it is actually crystal clear the lack of affordable housing on the island is being we wielded as a potent political weapon by developers difficult to show the water they know the you legislators have to weigh in the balance competing points of view from all different parts of the community about the about economic development and one very big fight um that they can put on the scales to press down in favor of unregulated development is affordable housing and that's why it's being mixed up with the water issue they w so to believe it if their hands would not tolerate by this pesky ordinance they'd be free to build more fordable housing despite the lower profits it brings them yeah right they want to sell you on the idea that there is a direct causal relationship between this sensible regulation and the failure to build affordable housing since two thousand and seven when the ordinance was passed so this attempt to weaken the law is not h that with three thousand affordable units on the bill which is a suspiciously round number because actually the truth is that nobody knows how under built we are on the forward for housing because we don't of specifics on the amendments section one see private water systems being exempt it's all the same water comes from the same place it just seems essentially not a sensible regulation for their own benefit and to establish the link with affordable housing is actually very self serving at the expense of the rest of the community in wa followed by thomas cook  to say do not repeal the bill do not make amendments i'm not surprised that this is this was put forth to do just cancel out a bill that has  affiliates have they do have maybe a leg up on some of the other developers out there because they do have water resources which are available to them at the very least  i wish for no repeal and no amendments to this because i do not see something to add to this or change it first we're just going to cancel it out and show me the money instead of but they're not there's been nothing done to bring our new water i understand that as as soon if you repeal this bill there will be you know good lines and good work going on but there is nothing that says that the affordable housing is going to press for the first and from what i've seen in the past when affordable housing is attached to a thing yes that some of the units are built maybe but that's not a high concern of course the market value is the bigger concern and also that there's nothing really talking not getting there fordable units done to stopping process and procedure on the other market resources will be taken back to anybody that is running for reelection in the next cycle and that is what i have to say thank you for your time thank you very much members indeed need to clarify the the show me the water bill i think it's best to repeal it and the dress the bill i think that we need to address our water resources the bill that served a purpose over the last eight years my understanding when it was initially passed the formula that the water department was calculating was basically the number of meters maxed out there how much water that would use subsequently there's a more practical analysis and this is my assessment it could be incorrect that it's like how much water is actually being used and how much water resources we have i encourage the council to work with the water department to develop in the teligent modern way our water system so it's is interconnected as possible it's a safe and reliable as possible they need to be funded over a long period of time you know it's a twenty year time frame to develop upgrade and develop our water system i'd like to keep the dialogue different i mean this is about the water housing is an issue we have we have bills in ordinances and laws and i'm very supportive of us working collaboratively together i admire the gentleman earlier who encourage that it's like this what we really need to do is sit down and work together but my two cents is repeal this bill and do another clean bill rather than just out a bunch of stuff to it so thank you for the opportunity to share my opinion thank you for your efforts and your work thank you thank you very much for a clear position members and you need to clarify seeing none thank you thank our our resources and cultural landscapes i am here to urge you to reject the proposal amendments and to not repeal the show me the water bill i believe that this is just another attempt by developers and their marriage to help fast track housing projects that do not benefit your typical local person in west my alone eighty percent of the homes sold went to out of state buyers i believe that this new year that you are the council should primarily focus on holding the developers accountable with the build out of all of fordable housing projects that have in title mintz and support a moratorium on new development until the affordable housing crisis is resolved i am frustrated that the county doesn't even know how many affordable housing is currently owed as we all know  who are in dire need of affordable homes and low income housing instead of trying to amend or repeal a bill meant to protect our precious resource and a bill that supports the buildout of affordable homes how about instead you advocate for a show me the housing bill if any amendments are to be made to the show me the water bill i would like to request you to add hotel in ma developments to this bill let's instead strengthen it make it better i respect respect for the would like to offer the following solutions create legislation to amend the affordable standards how create legal shrink on housing contracts with developers support funding sources for perpetual affordable efforts like no and habitat create a workforce housing chart as to what is still current and owed what projects are dead and what projects will be difficult to get required requirements because of a lack of county legal standing i suggest you expiration dates to entitlements also the country water moratorium from one nine hundred seventy nine still affects many local families trying to survive and even keep their land for their families i'd like to elaborate on that if one of you guys are willing to ask me the question and also a careful community planning that reserves mollies limited line and residential resources for true affordable housing projects as embodied in the water available billet the policy itself is likely needed more than ever before particularly in light of the impending impacts of climate change my county is unparalleled rate of population growth and ongoing unresolved issues regarding water allocation thank you very much members and in need to clarify the testimony do we have your testimony in writing no but i'll be happy to send it i would like to receive i think you've got really good ideas in it and i'd like to look at them when i have more time absolutely can i just elaborate on one thing since i'm sorry but you know you're done in this works we ask questions so if you if you can send me that you know  has been on wait lists for water for twenty plus years and there's many local families in the cooler area especially that want to want to provide housing for their grandchildren and their children and  think one way that the county can help resolve some of the housing crisis and housing issues is to help get these families off of the wait list because these developments are coming in left generate but then you have feel so sad and upset is taking me and everything i got to be a year and minutes without expectoration so i can't promise any of them i'm deeply concerned they were even have to take time and energy here to save this ordinance the former council member michelle anderson is a distinct minority have a caving from our people and smart growth and the environment work so hard to get past alaska seems like a giant step backwards from common sense and sustainability quote unquote to repeal what she and many others worked so hard to establish as guidelines for pono use of our resources to it having now to save show me the water is just one among many issues facing now is maui that signals a love affair with spec marketed development at the expense of the true well being of this community and it's a you know with all due respect this is not development in my view rabbit devolvement and is the handwriting not on the wall here when we witness the in bed relationship between commercial tourism spending billions of dollars advertising the latest on spoiled paradise only to feed to spec market a construction in reality industry which in the end inevitably shows that spoil the paradise beyond recovery i live one block from this court house toward the valley in a sweet college cottage behind a twelve inch tall foot fence twenty five feet from its back door on the other side of which a fleet of bulldozers and other heavy equipment i've been making a rendition noise for eight months now from seven am to five pm six days a week at times literally shaking myself in my cottage and actually fracturing the foundations of some neighbor homes this fleet is prepping for the construction of one hundred thirty three two storey townhouses which with two hundred more and maulana comprise a three hundred thirty three unit project town development none of which are a designated affordable project visible by the way from the office window of council member but to reno in the realm of context i'm also aware that on february fifth one thousand nine hundred twenty fifteen m long range planning listed seventeen thousand eight hundred permits for new single multi family homes of which eleven thousand nine hundred eleven were designated committed and sixty nine hundred partially entitled again none designated affordable this devolvement in my view benefiting and profiteering from upscale new comers to mao it will translate into forty one thousand more cars two hundred four tons of thousand tons of annual carbon emission from cars alone and forty six thousand more people thereby increasing population by nearly a third of what is the thinking here i wonder so here we are trying to save show me the water pitting a dire need affordable housing against a vital vital resource freshwater and here we are with the numbers shills supporting spec market construction forever some especially friendly with the energy in and some giving misleading information with  water availability does this portrait a true commitment to water to true commitment to pono i think not indeed when considering bowing with their unique visibility among global visitors traveling here from not merely for her scenery but for something ineffable to touch as their heart has an opportunity to model perhaps more than any other place in the world how community a community could live in whole balance and wellbeing there is a way to achieve this if we haven't crossed the line of no church already and that's a moran followed by mercer chappie listens good morning good morning chair welcome back and glad to see you have not given up on the holiday attire but got to see some bright red in the otherwise drab room here this morning  excuse me as we have stated before because something occurs is it not disingenuous to claim an action is the cause because i am here to testify if a committee member is absent can we reasonably state it is because he or she does not want to hear my testimony i hope not for some time we have read and heard all the unsubstantiated claims that show me the water bill impeded the development of affordable and low cost residential projects these claims seemingly trying to confuse our concern county residents with false causality claims while ignoring elephant in the room the great recession you s the same technique used by the same entities claim the reason for the dearth of new affordable was the fifty percent requirement for them in new residential developments when they also ignored the great recessions effect on the entire economy at the time and for years and during recovery now that they have accomplished that basically reducing affordable homes from a fifty fifty split to a seventy five twenty five in favor of no affordable homes for working residents they're looking for even more do not get full of again now again the recession is basically over and development is booming again because of this overall economic change the false claims are made see we fixed that bad more and now we are building again for us once shame on you for this twice shame on us please examine the current law and read what it tells us and why it should not be repealed such as real affordable projects or exempt from the current law how can that impede affordability a project if it protects current sources of  water and a population is exploding in climate change is having greater effect let's proceed cautiously diverted stream flows are finally been rectified which can result in less water for development more types of developments are exempt under current law before you consider repeal instead of working to gut this bill where is the push to get the approved and entitle projects constructed the great recession is over why are these not being built malo thank you very much members any need to tistics but again i feel way ignoring the great recession which seemed to have stopped all development and had nothing to do with or of a development would be affected by this bill there was just no money nothing was getting buil all well thank you i guess that's your opinion but you know since since the date that it went effective we have now applications that have gone through the process just for your information a total of eight hundred seventy eight units for development included in that is four hundred eighteen affordable units and outs just been since april twenty fift realize it's a very complex situation but we are certainly strongly strongly in support of affordable homes particularly affordable rentals and you guys did give approval to one right in south m the shortage has resulted in increased home prices multiple generations of families living together such as mine in crowded conditions and a number of our residents moving away from maui entirely such as mine i commend the council for your recent work in amending the workforce housing ordinance which represents a major step towards the realization of more workforce housing in maui county a second regulatory issue in need of amendment this for the construction of new workforce housing units is the present water availability policy while i support the repeal of the water availability part policy i realize that a total repeal of this ordinance maybe maybe unlikely to occur as an alternative i support amendments to exempt residential subdivisions with the mommy county residents or workforce housing agreement from the water availability policy one of the primary hurdles in the development of workforce housing is the need to make up the difference between the cost to develop the affordable unit and the lower sales prices for the workforce housing units maoi workforce housing ordinance addresses this need by requiring that housing projects include and therefore subsidize the development of workforce housing units it is my understanding however the current water availability policy represents a significant hurdle in the development of new housing projects on maui county thus absent the development of new housing projects workforce housing units may not become a reality they will not be built and i support the amendment to exempt residential subdivisions with a maui county residential y thank you for this opportunity to be very clear madam chair i would like to see the bill that is before you today for your instructions to be repealed and then discussions take place on how we can amend the bill to make it a better bill a more palatable bill there's been a lot of discussion today about about when do you build a house  shovel ready by the mid twenty seventeen schedule for groundbreaking on january fourteenth one hundred seventy one affordable units will be built first train and then market units to follow so therefore you know if developers keep their word and do what they say they're going to do there should be no problem in the affordable housing market however that is not is the case as we well kno so we're putting our mouth where money is and although you end up losing money in the initial stages of the development we hope to make it up in the market site later on i thank you for all of hard work i thank you for your listening and i look forward to sharing your mind now on on how we as a community can become stronger it's not us and the robinson followed by tom blackburn rodrigues you repeal this ordinance when i last appeared before you i asked you to consider the repeal of fourteen point twelve for the sake of socio economic growth and diversity building sufficient infrastructure to support that growth and increasing affordable housing for the workforce today i focus on the latter issue of affordable housing affordable housing is most efficiently achieved th of affordable and market units by implementing reasonable ratios of affordable and market housing we can we can effect as i said last month more affordable housing not less as it stands it is far too difficult to consistently build one hundred percent affordable housing units or projects and it is much more difficult to find a bank to finance the construction furthermore providing this mix of market and workforce housing reduces long term maintenance costs and thus long term affordability and sustainability the benefits of these types of projects have far reaching benefits the community at large today developers have a couple of tools for creating these fordable projects one is molly county code two point six which was recently amended and state law chapter two a one h both told one h allows the governing agency to grant exemptions to developers from certain codes on a case by case basis if today a repeal is off the table we ask that you consider a revision to allow for affordable housing projects that enter into agreements pursuant to both chapter two point one six and two on age mahalo and happ i'll be in the lobby later on but today i would like to just say and by name is tom blackburn rodrigues i am a the executive consultant for go maui on the former president founding member of the holly o'malley which so far as but thirty four families in homes nonprofit organization not using any other subsidies other than their hard work and today i'm going to be testifying as an individual i'm not testifying in favor of repealing the water ordinance that may not be possible i am suggesting that it be in mended so that is not a block to building more affordable housing and meets our current conditions water estimates and economy i am testifying in support of amendments to the water availability policy that will exempt market rate units of a residential workforce housing project from the show me the water ordinance i urge this policy change because under our system of encouraging the building of a formal workforce housing we have to recognize that we expect the market rate units to subsidize the affordable units and in fact market rate homes make it possible for affordable housing to be constructed and then sold at a price that meets the qualifications of eligible families and i think we have a lot of questions to ask about what those affordable limits are and having access to the reality for mailing families that is a subject of another conversation thank you for the opportunity to testify thank you for continuing to seek ways to partner with the community and make this government a partnership not a situation of us versus them and finding enemies and pointing figures i agree that is not them against us it is we we have to keep that in front of us all the time the great recession may be over for the one percent unemployment rates are at least double or triple what is being published as we know and for the common man of the common woman the recession is not over and will last for a long long time and many people will never find jobs again get thank you for the opportunity to testify and participate with you and encourage the building of housing for local families who cannot now find decent shelter to buy or rent and live doubled up or tripled up or on the beach or outside the irani gardens on the walkway to the key hay swimming pool this is about people thank you very much and happy new year god bless you and thank you so much for the hard work that you are attempting to do today alone thank you very much tempers it members any need to clarify the testimony saying none thank you walker for a letter you let the next person come down before you head up that might help we have a traffic problem here it's encroaching the county building now a county board of water supply i am against repeal and or amendments to the water availability bill i think we really need to look at what in truth are precarious water resources not only throughout our county but the throughout the state to the effects of global warming climate change on the pale ability of water and that's that's quite real and i would i really appreciated her testimony and i think that you might want to look very carefully at what she had to say the other thing is that this is not if we really want to see workforce housing we want to see what is truly affordable housing i think we need to focus on that and we need to look at county and quite probably state partnerships in the us so that you created models such as what tom used to work with where you have land trusts where people don't own the land but the land  lease to a developer for sixty sixty five years as they do on a wall but we absolutely need to address crying needs for affordable housing and housing in general i think homelessness will become more and more pervasive problem and it's not because people aren't trying it's simply that they're kind of shut out economically i would like to comment briefly on the mayor's i asked alice of the sea and could sit in on our meetings we were quite welcome what what i think people missed and it was a quite an interesting committee to be sitting with you know very ardent resources are and that's what we really need to work with our infrastructure is way way behind the curve some of what alex had to say in terms of catchment systems and courage that kind of stuff i think is right to the point so thank you very much thank you very much my members any need for clarification thank you oh there's one i'm sorry  ok so during your tenure if you can just elaborate just a little bit if you will in regards to your folks i guess dialogue and communication with directors not just water obviously but planning it actually there seems to like like universities where you have territory and in different departments and the departments generally don't communicate and they're very  strong about what their boundaries are think in county government you don't see that kind level of energy base among the different departments who desperately need to listen to each other i mean you have  reclaimed water under environmental management for better or worse that's a great waste of water and it's poisoning our near shore waters it's killing our re chubby and everyone was saying in terms of like it's we you know and we need to come to a solution and so much so often for many of us we don't have the time to come in and participate and you really wonder if anyone's really going to listen i mean so many years she brings  really public water that he doesn't own and that e m i doesn't own and i think you need to come to resolution of those kind of problems as well thank you thank you for your participation  ryan churchill followed by train net for tado good morning morning council chair vice chair and members of the committee happy new year my name is ryan churchill and i am supporting revisions to or repealing the water availability bill i've had the opportunity to work with this bill since its passage in two thousand and seven and multiple capacities since the bill's passage i have secured over a dozen written verifications of long term reliable source from the water directors qualify for exemptions under the ordinance drilled wells pastor as of course satisfy to satisfy conditions of the ordinance and once actually appeal that decision made under the ordinance and prevailed i believe have a good understanding of the bill how it works or how it doesn't work i'm not sure what the original goals were for the ordinance but i don't think the bill has done anything beneficial either to protect water resources or to encourage more affordable housing based on my experience i believe the bill adds an unnecessary and duplicative process the state department of health water commission and p c each have rigorous approval processes in place not to mention developers need water service to make their housing product marketable developers are out there trying to build homes to sell them without water the bill adds delay to the process sometimes it takes years to get a determination from an existing water source is a long term reliable source or not we've got an example here where it took four years for the water department to respond to requests on that determination of the bill favors large developers and landowners who have the resources to develop new water sources and the bill may actually be damaging water source resources since the bill encourages the continued development of small private water systems and wells scattered all over the island versus a cohesive government managed water system and it discourages investment in maui due to the risks associated with discretionary discretions from a water director if a project has a long term reliable water source are not although i support repeal of the bill if that not will happen i also support changes to improve the functionality of the bill so we can work with it and addition to the other proposed changes you're contemplating today i suggest to propose revision be made to specifically example large subdivisions and these aren't large  subdivisions like a two acre ag lot with a house this is a large lot as defined by the county code or that lot will be subdivided in the future until into subdivision or other housing what's happening is  show me the water bill restricts subdivisions in preparation for a future subdivision and so i don't have really the time to explain the details on that but i provided a proposed modification in my testimony today hope you information from our council members than it is from departments that actually have oversight over this information i feel that the impediment is not the policy but the developer's refusal to fulfill their responsibilities as required to lot by law and thus i oppose any repeal or amendment to w r eleven our water availability policy currently landowners are required to secure bonds on their development projects to ensure funding for needed infrastructure including water so that the county is indemnified from any future liability that should legally and technically fall on the developer repeal of this policy or any amendments attempting to redefine this responsibility is a blatant pass the buck maneuver that clearly displays a contempt for county policy and further contempt for the people of maui count repealing definitions like long term or plot a reliable supply of water to shift the responsibility of ensuring such a supply for said project away from the landowner jeopardizes current water customers who would see a sharp rise in their water rates and have to deal with limited resources and higher demand in times of drought if new developments were held accountable as the policy stands the county has a responsibility to its current residents to ensure that construction projects prove sufficient infrastructure for them be for approval it's simply bad planning and management to allow the sale of lots before water sources confirm finally i want to remind you and caution you that you have a responsibility not only to consider our water use and development plan when assessing development application and plans but also to remember your legal responsibilities to adhere to the state water code and our public trust doctrine concerning this valuable resource as all has stated in their testimony that you had second of kick him off of last year private commercial gain is not a protected purpose under the public trust apartment land rights on the land rights all of the water reservations for department of homeland homelands native hawaiian traditional and customary practices these are the things that need to seriously be considered before commercial gain i strongly urge you to require these developers who are blaming the water policy is the reason for not building years worth in many units of affordable housing to show us the housing before they receive further permits to build new projects or developments there well over a thousand units there are still owed to us that have already sold market price units within those developments and we have yet to see the affordable units in them that being said i absolutely opposed to propose amendments to w r eleven as submitted by vice chair mike vic amendments forward at this point i want to clarify what you have in your bill for the ordinance to repeal three separate definitions that are currently within the water repeal the bill that's exactly what i'm doing and then amend the definition that's not have  again it's a matter of being handed a large amount of paper as we sat down this morning according to our procedures and rules so we haven't had a chance to read all but we will thank you very much thank you very much miss wallenberg we're going to take one more testify in there we're going to check with our district offices and then we're going to take our morning break thank you madam chair ellie good morning  morning aloha my name is allie and i am here as a very nervous and concerned citizen of west waco wrote in like a proof don't be nervous we're just regular folks well i'm i'm nervous because on my way home today from dropping my son off from school i was driving up west waco road and they have these beautiful occupied trees on the road and there was a people there to cut down the monkey trees and so i stopped and i said please don't cut down monkey trees and they said sorry ma'am i have my orders and so i stopped first second and i back to my vehicle  been looked around in and i saw what seemed to be a power line or i don't know exactly what kind of line it was but it was kind of close to the tree but not too close so so i went back up to the man and i said well how much would it cost to move that post like forty fifty feet back and he said well that's not why we're cutting down the tree ma'am we're cutting down the tree because the roots are going into the development and so i am here today to ask that you oppose any repeal of policy at this time and please hold the land owners accountable for their subdivisions because whoever built that subdivision should have known that these monkey trees roots are going to be there and and they should have been able to see that we're going to have to deal with this at some point in time and come up with a plan to be able to make the development and still have the monkey trees that have been there for way longer than we have and and help the water because the man told me after i said we'll once you cut down the tree the roots are still going to be there he said yeah then we're going to go over it with herbicide and we're going to kill the roots and i said wait a minute we're having a show me the water meeting bright now down at the at the courthouse and if we were concerned about our water we should be putting herbicides on the ground that gets into our water supply that poisons our water supply and developers should know this and  humans should know this and so i think it's really important that we try and figure out how we can to hold land owners accountable for protecting our water supply and this includes homeowners developers corporations farmers humans accountable for making sure we water for me and my family and for your family and for future families of this island because that's what we're all striving for is the future of maui and so of you i know that all of you know somebody and park and recs department because that's who he told me to call if you could please address the subject to the it's the repeal or not no repeal i did say  repeal of the policy at this time and i please ask that you hold the land orders accountable for taking care of their responsibility of the land that they own and making sure that  ok thank you i will probably check with you again on two we're just about done here so let us know if anyone shows up do you have anyone wishing to testify you ok thank you so i again will not tick with you until the very end but if someone shows up let us know you know how to do that thank you ok members we have reached on morning break time i'm going to ask you to please take as short a break as you need and come back so that we can reconvene we have a number of people still that want to testify and we'd like to complete all of this before noon today so we're on a short so the meeting is now in recess please get back as soon as you can coleman good morning good morning good morning council members and chair and thank you for the opportunity to testify before you this morning my name is  raised pretty much in white but for the past nineteen years more than half of my life i've lived in a to better my apartment in north key hay twelve and a half of those years have been as a single parent of four kids let me tell you if it had not been for a failed economy that tanked our housing market and my mother's misfortune of a car accident that resulted in an insurance settlement that she could give me for a down payment i would never have been able to own my own place and raise my children in the island the only island that i have ever known as my home the middle class is the backbone of our island economy they are school teachers our police officers our firefighters and medics our laborers our book keepers of which i am our mechanics and our visitor industries service providers they are not our big developers or our real estate tycoon yet in today's housing market when the middle class is already being squeezed into poverty and workforce housing is at an all time low and family homelessness is that an all time high our developers are using our meager building requirements to further push for deregulation not so that they can build more to meet the community's plan but so that they can build more without having to provide for the needs of our community we see it all the time already developers try to cut corners ask for fewer regulations to eliminate our community plans and get hauled passes for shoddy evaluations of the long term and fire mental and infrastructure impacts of their projects every possible chance they get they don't do this to reduce costs so that the community will have a lower price point they do this to lower their costs so they can make a bigger profit and when it comes to workforce housing developers start their construction projects by focusing on the expensive stuff and push the almost insignificant affordable housing requirements off to the very end sometimes not meeting those requirements at all into the tightest dense is configurations possible so it takes up the least precious space on a project plan today at a time when only twenty five percent of a project is required to meet affordable housing requirements it's no wonder our children have to leave home in search of a better life let's be clear only one house per four meant for the backbone of our island economy that's outrageous and our developers will lie to you with their bleeding heart story and say oh it's because the rules are too strict this show me the water regulation is too tough we just can't build anything because of it but i tell you show me the water is good prudent legislation exactly as it was originally written it was put in place i have one more minute please  try and keep it as sort of as you can ok it was put in place not to make it more difficult for developers but to spark responsible development that ensured adequate resources for community that taxpayers would be able to afford repealing or amending this legislation will not make your jobs easier as council members it will not suddenly cause workforce housing market to explode with affordable homes and rather it will weaken environmental protections put in place to protect our precious and limited resources please joseph cohen good morning i name is richard coleman from cola i will keep this very short and simple there's been a lot of good arguments both ways but in reality we have a very limited precious resource on this island takes years for those aquifers for the water that falls on this land to be absorbed in come through extra development is taking the water needed for the families now i urge you not to repeal or amend this bill it was hammered out it's a good bill it has been very strong in helping this island and we are just that folks where in island we are the water on maui thank you thank you very much members any need that i thought it was pretty straight up aloha and thank you for the opportunity to speak and thank you for doing such a good job i want to pre shared honor and respect your calling these meetings to review these issues and to make intelligent informed decision with all the information that's possible incorporated it is time to end the scarcity paradigm while there is local scarcity of water or at least access where in the middle of the pacific ocean there is certainly no scarcity of the long term future is very clearly about desalination is the only way the population of the earth is going to survive and so those are long range plans and need to be considered it's time to oh there is no scarcity of money there is very poor distribution as we're all aware the one percent are doing great and the ninety nine percent are suffering it's time to change that on an ongoing basis they need to pay their way and we're the ones who are footing the bill that's got to change because we don't have the money to foot the bill anymore but they do it is time to institute the abundance paradigm such as the abundance of sea water that can be converted to supply fresh water to the entire island for agriculture and anything else without even touching the aquifers it will take some intention to make that happen full gainful employment is possible with future development in sustainable ways we talk about housing for a thousand where what we need is thousand housing for ten thousand it's time to stop thinking small and to create on the footprints that already exist of housing larger developments to house more people in sustainable ways that are co operative constructed whopper of lee maintained where everyone benefits and everyone participates i'm going to list just some other issues for further consideration four hour work week is one way that you get full employment a leisure economy is the future as  delineated by buckminster fuller visionary and i offer his visions for consideration we should be visioning for seven generations plus we should be conserving irreplaceable natural resources that means the land and ag land so that we can be sustainable suppliers of our own food we should build on the current footprints up not out we should be creating win win situations where everyone wins we should build self contained we should build sustainable build redundant safety systems accept full personal responsibility by everyone involved provide opportunities respect the culture treatment and use  important issue little bit about learned from our friend its members recognize that water is a precious natural and cultural resource that must be protected preserved and managed as the public trust enough members and long time stewards of hawaii's lands waters and natural resources and are active participants in all of my we watersheds so our north members are active members and partners of all of my we watershed partnerships along with d l and are in the water department suppose it's the proposed bill and any amendments though facilitate housing affordable residential work force a market housing particularly any amendments to it's a residential subdivisions which have c agreements for workforce residential and market housing i'll just try to make for quick points the first point is that the current water policy we believe is unnecessary because my wee island has a sustainable yield of four hundred twenty seven million gallons of water a day which is more than adequate to serve molly's current and future water needs which is approximately i believe between thirty and forty million gallons per day the second point is that the water department still has even if you pass this law the water department still has the authority to regulate water they are very powerful in this respect they have the power we call it the god g power it's like the joker or the trump card they have the power to deny water meter permits with the stroke of a pen they can just say no not enough while they still have that power even if you repeal this bill and repeal that is their most powerful tool secondly they have the power to regulate water use through law rules regulations conservation which you folks of done reclamation which a gentleman had had talked about and reuse measures thirdly of the their responsibility is to develop water resources infrastructure consistent with the water use development plan i serve this corporation council four hundred two for eight years and that is the responsibility of not only the county but the but the water department to provide water and infrastructure thirdly the the county's current show me the water policy has created along with the  affordable housing policy has created a defacto man a do factorial mar tory i'm on the development of affordable housing and people have talked about that that when you build affordable housing you build it at a loss the developer takes a loss on it so the market housing helps recoup that loss that's how affordable housing works and every county has affordable housing rules and regulations that that are consistent with that  lastly we would again support any exemption if there is no repeal of this law would support any exemption for subdivisions which include a mixture of affordable housing residential workforce housing and market housing person to an agreement that is signed with the county housing agreement signed by the county and lastly i'd like to reiterate the idea posed by my football coach my former football ten eleven followed by lucy and to think that we need to inject an ecological reality check appreciate mr our colors testimony but the amount of water that we have available has been based on an estimate from quite a long time ago that is not accurate we have really no idea what our capacity is we make new wells but that doesn't make us new water our aquifers are like watermelons they can only give up so much water we can only put so many new straws or new wel geology that is below the soil so what we're talking about in terms of giving up what we have now we're not measuring the decades we are behind in the percolation of water through the geology of our islands to get back into the aquifer and replenish it so each time that groundwater level goes down that the table deplete itself we are also behind the game we have no aggressive programs to improve the capacity of  better able to capture water naturally and that means removing invasive species that means increase of native forest cover reforesting right parian areas along oliver gulches and streams so that we increase infiltration it means better capture every time we build more there's more cement there's less water capture less water percolation overall there's a larger picture we have to look at the last time i looked there were over twenty one thousand homes permitted for build in mali not just affordable housing but all housing many of them they're on the books for twenty years or more if they're fifteen years old or as one of the testifier said let's take them off the books but that means we also have to look at not just the formal housing not just the proposed elements that are coming up but all the twenty one thousand that haven't been built and that's a whole lot of other water in fairness tara farmers have to go through a permit process requires them to measure the press city of the stream spend years in  cases to get an allocation why don't we do that measure what we have first before we also do this for development so i'd like to propose that we actually put ajna in the center of our decision making i really urge you to do that because when that is in good health we are also in good health in our economy is also abundant we can make economic and political decisions to either destroy or rejuvenating selves and i urge you to really consider whether taking away this show me the water bill will actually set us up in one direction or another thank you thank you members and you need to get there by seeing thank you ready to start fresh here my name is lee c n d nay i'm testifying as a private individual today i would like to suggest that we sort of start at the top of our water use and development plan is supposed to be the master blueprint for our water future ours was last updated in one thousand nine hundred two and we made a stab at it in two thousand and nine it's not done yet there's an advisory committee working now i suggest you just table this matter until that plan is complete because that's the big picture and this is like one little part of that big picture it's like it's kind of trying to put together a puzzle where you don't know what the picture supposed to look like also i hear a lot of people today calling  r let's not repeal let's just amend it so that everything with the workforce housing agreement which is virtually all residential subdivisions in maui are exempted from the bill so i mean i just want folks at home you think it's a great idea that the south is coming forward nine hundred units we shouldn't ask if they have any water we shouldn't ask to you know to show a reliable source of water the tech park is coming forward seven hundred fifty units we shouldn't ask them to show any reliable source of water why would we do that that's just like a bad idea well i think we all know that's not a bad idea that some common sense also maybe we should make sure that the ordinance it's a little unclear what kind of subdivisions are affected it doesn't particularly say that only residential subdivisions but it kind of implies that they are maybe industrial and commercial subdivisions should also be added so that you know they're doing their part to actually add to our search for water and then when we look at the the idea of working together i think that's a wonderful concept but i think that would begin with setting up a real advisory committee for this bill that includes people from all hawaiian homelands the folks that are suing the county are suing the state to get water for their terrell farms because they're you know competing with other interests those people were not represented on the task force that met before the mayor's task force so perhaps this committee could take it upon themselves to set up a real task force where people could work together and then when we look at the idea the you know this is about people with course it's about people and you're asking people to gamble with their life savings to buy a lot and if there's no assurance that that law is going to get water  you know that's a big risk to take why shouldn't the department of water supply assume its responsibility and ask those tough questions mr our caller was says they already can somehow that message didn't get out before this  ordinance was passed we had things going forward with no reliable water supply and then they strong arm the county give me those meters now because you approve my subdivision that's one of the reasons why public works was totally behind this bill they wanted that bonding authority to make sure that those water sources were built by someone's anyway to conclude i think we really need to take a realistic look here the amendments proposed i don't think  realistic the repeal doesn't leave us with anything we have no master water use in development plan let's table this matter until we have the big picture and then move forward thank you thank you mr been a member of any need to clarify sir good morning committee members i'm albert presumably tomorrow foundation and we are opposed to the proposed ordinance that would repeal the water availability policy and we ask that the committee file this communication we all want to fordable housing but do we want to for a bill housing without water what this bill is really about is allowing developers to escape the responsibility for water source development and it will not create more water it will only force the county to spend money for source development once once the lots are developed  infrastructure is put in as has happened in the past before this policy was put in place it will raise property taxes and make housing less affordable for everybody and it will risk over allocation of our water resources so somebody needs to pay for water source development and in the past the developers would put in the infrastructure and then expect the county to pay in other words that the property taxes paid for water for private developers and that's a subsidy so show me the water policy put a stop to that right now the water availability policy exempts one hundred percent affordable housing and that's a good thing we need affordable housing and we do provide water sources for one hundred percent affordable housing however current policy says that only twenty five percent of new housing needs to be affordable so that's seventy five percent it's an affordable in other words for everyone affordable house that we're letting go in there are going to be three on affordable houses built so we're subsidizing subsidizing developers by putting in water sources for an affordable houses just to get one that's an affordable and this at a time when most of our housing is known to be going to out of state by out of state buyers and that's not justifiable we should keep our water availability policy strong so all the water sources that the county provides go to affordable housing if anything the policy should be strengthened not weakened why should these requirements not apply to all uses the water availability policy was adopted during a time of drought and future climate forecasts for maui county are increasingly dry so let's not over commit or even risk overcommitting our resources at taxpayer expense just because we're not in a drought right now  and then i wanted to address one thing i talked about in my testimony last time the water availability policy requires the director the water director to review and comment on fifteen different factors and that's a good thing if that policy is repealed depending on the administration those factors may or may not be considered so it's a good thing to have them in writing to prompt people to look at those factors good morning my madam chairman and all the county council members my name is speed chase i want to say right away that i oppose the repeal or any amendments to w r eleven it's kind of hit me by surprise i just got back from traveling and considering moving off island because it's too expensive right now to buy a home i think this is audacious with all the public trust conversations we have about water a local water company i'm fiberglass and that we're even here there definitely needs to be a balance of conversation when it comes to water i don't think we're there yet as far as the developers go i actually know quite a few i was i i was right there with friends on both sides of the aisle who recent controversy i don't think that the give back component by developers is is sufficient i don't care if they say they take a loss i haven't seen i haven't seen enough community give back to you know where the any attention the word luxury since one nine hundred forty s has been just distorted it has led to an imbalance in rentals and house prices that get i understand you tell us for gather data yeah so that we can figure out so we can tell everybody what the water is inside the street ok so but i kind of confuse because you told of stream by my house that feeds my property it  is empty isn't zero while and everybody laughed you know and the earth just as lawyer said zero is good data and honestly all those rivers that he was referring to in one thousand nine hundred ninety a little can i school at eight thirty meeting that he drove out to those those rivers are still empty so the data to the data still reads zero and i just want to point that out and i just have to laugh a little bit reading some other listening to other people's testimony and this term shovel ready i think that's really to keep it short and sweet and just basically i asked you folks to please keep the bill as is intact without our repealing it or adding any amendments as i spoke the last time i came up here we really don't want to put the cart before the horse in this type of situation as we know water is a valuable resource here and i think it's finite and our organization and many other individuals community members and many former you know colleagues of yours that sat here in the council with the development of this truly value the protection of this resource in perpetuity i support affordable housing and i support locals being having the opportunity to to continue to live here including my kiki in the future but we can't build if we don't have water you know i think that's it's a simple fact it's it's important that we we look at the particular projects that have occurred under this bill and the success of that and so again i humbly ask all of you folks to think carefully as you make any decisions in regards to the show me the water bill good morning good morning good morning everybody we've heard a lot of talk this morning i want to think that that's talk of good heart that people who have taken the time to come and to have submitted written data is helpful i'm here though with the bill itself i'm also one of the members of the country  oversight contaminated water issue back from the early two thousand it was a different water director then same mayor as we have now so there is no an experienced  as after having had two or three other amendments over the years from two thousand and seven when it was passed and there was a group of ten of us who had worked very hard on that and thought that we had set some parameters together with the water department so that we wouldn't be in the buying that we are today remember that the people on the seventh floor and wonderful about helping they'll give you a desk they'll give you a binder filled with the appropriate papers to take advantage of that they're doing that with the goodness of their hearts and they have put in brackets the missions that the current phase of this is recommending i've done those brackets same page in red so they're easily identifiable one of the first things they want to get rid of is an approved engineering means a report prepared by a licensed professional engineer experienced in such fields as water resources hydro geology water supply or environmental engineering why would we want to get rid of that is the question that i'm hearing from people who have read this another one of those is a long term reliable supply of water which is a written statement and kind of the talk out there is talk is cheap show me the water like it said also that the water director ends up having permission to grant or withhold granting repeatedly in this shall not approved shall approve major suppose must be whatever all these red brackets that are in here this is the document itself now another one of those is a current incomplete title report you issued by a licensed title company showing all persons vested with record title in the land subdivided want to get rid of that  then over on the last page there is one other section that folks i just want to came and read all of those and just to let you know that the some of the comments may be less gentle th got people who are distressed people who are angry and people including this committee who are willing to point here asked this or not and then move forward i propos is lawrence carter shelley it's all good to see guys in person rather than on facebook and over the christmas holiday per your request you to kind of cut straight to the chase it's a little bit it's kind of like a double negative are you for the bill or against that you know it's like  with all due respect mr victory no i'm against your proposed bill as currently proposed it seems as though in just listening to the testimony today there's sort of three schools of thought one is just ok the show me the water bill alone or repeal it and replace it with something or amend it kind of seems like that's sort of it feels a little bit haphazard to just repeal it and then try to figure out something later you know it's like it is because the part that's one of the unintended consequences that i talked about last time i testified with the show me the water bill is it seems like it's become a cause i land planning tool and so that's the part that i think to just remove it altogether would be you know sort of just pulling the carpet out so the fact that there is you know an aspect of that i think that it needs to stay there the other part too is it's not in a vacuum and so if you know mr victorian or somebody else here decides to make amendments i think that part of the equation needs to be planning you know mr couches subcommittee or and  or the actual workforce housing ordinance itself because there's flaws in those as well so it's almost like you know this this discussion has become water versus affordable housing and oh by the way it's not affordable housing we all want affordable housing it's workforce housing so you know so workforce housing versus you know water has become this you know polarized thing and as the football coach said i think you're going to be still here or not you know we all do need to kind of come together on this but the workforce housing ordinance that also needs to be amended because there are some flaws with that as well so i'm not giving any proposals per se but i think those are just some of the things that need to be discussed should there be an amendment  the following reasons we need to protect existing residents if water is being used and is used extensively particularly the upcountry area but it could be for other parts of the island as well we want to make sure that we are not going to be further restricted drought conditions but this year we've had a lot of rain nobody's been talking about it but we have to remember that that is not the permanent situation that oftentimes we have drought situations we have people on the water meter list and i would just like to urge you to to look at that list someday and realize that thirty percent of the people on that list in the first one hundred are asking for subdivisions the next one hundred or so it's even higher percentages if those subdivisions go through and there's no protection people further down that list individual families may not be able to get their water meters for a very long time we need to make sure we have enough water and finally why in homelands in our community we have a large wind homans area at the end of the pipeline we want to make that that point homelands area has sufficient water to conclude the development of their project in addition to those comments i'd like to make some of my own separate from the cook me association one is we have something called the water use and development plan the county is obligated to complete that plan and the present plan is from one thousand nine hundred twenty six years ago the department is now in the process of developing a new plan i would urge you and this is a turn of what chip ice up first suggested she said either repeal or not repeal today i'm asking you to table this whole motion till the water used in development plan is completed that will give you information in a way to craft the proper policy this county needs to regulate housing but not just housing subdivisions golf courses hotels industrial parks malls gallons a day and we're only using thirty million what he totally ignored was the large amount that's used by private developers and in particular the logic or cultural operations which may use as much as two hundred million of that four hundred million we have to know where the water is how much is available by areas of the island by areas of the county as a second thing we should get from the respective departments a list of all of the already entitle projects for example one project may have gone through claiming to get water from let's say the the aquifer area what happens with another project came in and said we also are going to get water from that aquifer we need a cumulative numbers and so i'm asking you to request from the water apartment the housing plan and the planning department and the public works department how they're going to make sure that the already entitle projects many of them are out there will have enough water and to get those lists sent to you and i urge you to request that from those partners also other some developers who have not met their requirements who have previously been given in title months with requirements of fifty percent in the old days reduced to twenty five percent which of those developers have not just housing but also the industrial parks the golf courses the hotels and all the other users of water many of which are far greater than domestic users in people's homes that's when we'll have a final water use and development plan that's properly guiding the development of the housing and water use in our county thank you thank you very much members and you need to clarify the testimony thank you very much good thank you and happy new year to all of your jocelyn cost resident of this county my grandparents were born here my parents were born here they took me to california my grandfather raised me telling me not to return to the ryan islands that it didn't have the resources to support its own people he left here in one thousand nine hundred fifty nine you've mentioned this morning twice the date of nine hundred ninety that this action was initiated i ask you today not to repeal it but to look deeper below our ground level below are our quote for to our heart this is a very tiny spot in the middle of the ocean we do not have the resources that many of our other islands in this chain have we don't educate our public in how to save water we don't educate our developers in how to save water if we did we wouldn't still be installing that hold gallons and gallons and gallons of water in every home and business bill we need public education on how to reduce these things how to save water it's beyond just how to appropriate the use if we don't teach our public how to save our water all of this will be for not please don't repeal this bill please don't make any changes to it and tell that final proposal is made so as our other people have said we can see the whole picture please respect what we need to know as citizens here we need to know how to save our water how to make affordable housing happen there is no affordable housing left on maui the other day i drove by a fast food company that had a sign out looking for employees that  starting wage of nineteen dollars and fifty cents an hour my husband retired as a u s postmaster at sixteen dollars and twenty five cents an hour after a thirty year career twenty five years ago something in those numbers just does not compute in my head if we have to pay nineteen dollars and fifty cents an hour for a high school student to sit in a fast food window it says a lot about what we have for affordable housing and it shows our lack of water water drives this community and has for years i'm an up country cool resident i drive by our water storage open storage daily and see it almost empty even during this time of good rain please protect our water protect it from the corporate communities and cultural communities that are stealing it bring it back to those river streams for our taro farmers and for our people who really live here not the millionaires who build homes and spend four or five days a year here thank you very much i think you members any need to clarify the eight each representatives key role is to assist in the management of our resources advice in the state department of land and natural resources on a more personal note i find it to be irresponsible on the part of any elected office by the people for the people to erase good work that was mindful of not just smart girl but the preservation of hope for the ability to grow in the future for short term great gains jobs housing economic gains and other short sighted ideas should not nor should be tolerated for the sacrifice of such a precious resource such as water it should instead increase the conditions of it to better develop the growth of this resource by requiring bringing back our rain forest eradicating invasive species to protect our water shed in east m and plans to grow water instead this idea would be another loophole investors who really have no regard for we the people who call this our home to jump through and injure our delicate ecosystem any water source they provide should instead be regulated monitored and be required to be only surface the idea of digging wells to provide adequate compliance doesn't work leave it to the developed leaving it to the developer to have to provide what they that they meet their requirements through their hired consultants makes no sense this is why we're in the situation we're in now if you have the money for consultants and hired hands you can get anything you want in this county the people are the most expert you can you can get because we live here we are the canary in the mine and you don't seem to mind that we're saying enough an example of expert consultation work to gain entitlements from this very council is why they are six seventy in the words of developer and consultants there were noise no major cultural impacts they presented twenty five cultural sites with a few hundred features within jus to the action of people and the grace of the developer the property was reassessed and found it contained five hundred sites and thousands of features just in the south section alone my question is would discount council have given them the entitle mints if they knew then what we know now what more with water if you council members find you got it wrong there will be no turning back irreparable harm do you have a contingency plan for that i strongly oppose your idea and consider and consideration to repeal the show me the water law and instead request to strengthen it strengthen it with even more conditions and requirements anything less would be an insult to your employer we the tax bill that but i see thank you very much members in a need to clarify th behalf at the last water resource committee meeting i listened very carefully and with great interest to all the testimony regarding the water availability policy and today's testimony all very educational there are so many important considerations to make in the use of this precious resource but in all this and passion testimony what i learned is the fundamental basis of this ordinance was brought very clear by the comments made by the  water director at the end of last meeting and i think most people probably were gone and didn't even hear that and that was that when this policy was brought forward it was based on kind of faulty calculations we were using calculations of how much water we would have and i really shouldn't speak for the director here on what in title months there were and if everyone turned their fossett on it full full blast and so forth and that just didn't seem a good basis for making decisions i support amending or changing this policy in some way to make it work better and and address some of the concerns that have been put forward it's not possible to predict how when each untitled proud project is going to be built and how much water that project is going to utilize i live in mowing meadows mowing meadows was entitled fifty years ago there's still lots in mowing meadows that are still not developed there's still a lot of property in valley meadows that still hasn't you know you've come to its maximum use of its water but it's taken fifty years to get to that point so for us to say hey we're going to reserve water now for the next fifty years because this project is now entitled to it that just doesn't make sense to me i do believe the water director should make an annual report as to the current status of the water meters being issued in the subsequent year and the current availability of water and what he can ensure i don't think that we should make a policy that goes out fifty years down the road and says well based on these entitlements fifty years down the road we might run out of water so we're not going to give any more in total months that that is not you know sound i do agree with much of the testimony that's been given that the island needs to complete its water development plan such a plan will make clear that now he's infrastructure needs improvement and we all know that in order to do that we need money and i do think that this council should raise the cost of water meter fees dramatically as recommended by the the the director in order to pay for that infrastructure now whether we raise them across the board or whether we say we're going to waive them for affordable housing and make them much higher for these not affordable housing that's a policy decision that you guys need to make but i think that's the place where we should be working towards improving the infrastructure and the future of our of our water as opposed to just some calculation that is fundamentally flawed and it's at its foundation thank you thank you mr crilly members and i need  chair would urge you if you want to testify please sign we're trying to gauge how much we can get done this money good morning good morning council members i would like to start by reading a few places in a just received document that i believe you received this morning and it's from the office of why in affairs and in it i see that they have done a very nice critical review of the issues at hand and provided legal references that show that their position and i will read that and please bear with me hard believes that the whole sale of the repeal of the molly county water availability policy may eliminate important and beneficial county water letter they go on to say what are the state and county responsibilities to the public trust waters and who are those people that the county must answer to or protect water for and they they go through a list of people including cooley on a water users and the office i mean and the whole land homes beneficiaries and they made a point to say this does not include those products those commercial concerns for monetary gain this does not include commercial concerns for monetary gain that is not your coolie ana i have to agree with the people who have come up here to say you know i think mr victory no you brought up an issue here and what it has pointed to is that we do not have a water plan that is long overdue and going forward without this water plan i wish that you would put this energy into holding the water department and the director hold his feet to the fire to get that job done instead of taking a good law and putting all this energy into it to repeal it why not leave it in place because it has done what it was intended to do which is make sure that water is available before getting subdivision approval those bonds that are given before getting the subdivision approvals are so important because then the county is not held left holding the bag to pay for somebody's private wealth or a sub to give them water more water than is available to a subdivision that's a very important step spend your energy holding the water to what department to what they're supposed to do they're supposed to have a plan in this letter from oha they make that clear there should a better plan for mali especially with the rise in population that we are experiencing and i just have to say that in the two year report that was given i do not think that we were afforded the benefits of this policy by the by the kind of report that was given and especially for poor and homes and the the water that is first and primary given to the people of hawaiian homes that report was shameful and i wish you would hold him hold the water department to their task they're supposed to report every two years on this water availability policy and they have done a very shoddy job and now you come to take this away when it has not even been put into place so i just want to tell you that the office of point affairs believes that taking repealing this this bill is not in their in the best interests of the beneficiaries and not in the in keeping with the state and county laws thank you thank you very very much members is there any need to testify would you please come forward immediately ok i'm going to check with the new with the neighbor offices and find out if the anybody showed up did nice has anybody come to testify  heard an incredible amount of wonderful testimony today i want to think all of the testifiers those who submitted testimony as well as those that are here it's very gratifying to get this kind of response to a request for testimony it really helps the members as we have to make decisions so members let's have some discussion and then i will call on mr vick to reno and city where he wants to go miscalculating thank you chair and i believe you are aware but i have some information that i wanted to submit via open session here as our censuring law dictates to us and so i have people or if i can have staff help me to seventy two hour my fellow members sure not a problem thank you very much and so the first set of handouts members is my office had compiled just this morning from long range planning maps and it's all available online  but it is pretty much current only current through february twenty four teen of all the different projects single family multifamily timeshare slash hotel in all or different districts and it breaks down the numbers in total  committed in title projects that are out there so i thought it's a helpful reference for us as rehearing people saying that we nothing's going through and what have you on and then i have a second hand through your committee to the departments so if my me it's only five bullet points of questions that i'd like to submit on record through your committee it have to do that thank you very much so the subject is w r eleven water availability policy and i would like to request the report to be transmitted by the administration to include the following information one all previously approved entitled housing development projects from two thousand and five to present that of affordable and or workforce housing requirements including the developer's name contact information the dates of their entitlements and the development location two for each already entitled approved slash approved development project indicate the water source three for each already entitled slash approved development project how many total housing units were approved and how many units of affordable and or workforce housing units were required for for each intitled slash approved development project indicate how many of the required affordable housing and or workforce housing units have been completed and which have yet to be built and five indicate the name of any developer slash land owner who is delinquent behind in meeting their affordable slash workforce requirements so this chair is there are requests via your committee here today to department of housing human concerns public works and planning actual it's a it's a handout that actually came through his crib ellos committee but i think it's very pertinent to the subject matter and what people have been discussing all day long so i'd like to just put that into the record and into your community so we have this to her as a resource to look at and it also goes along with my role of match so point by seven very busy this morning trying to keep up with all of us but so i have maps that actually show remember our red red yellow  myself to you and it's in reference to the one of the initiators of this legislation is michelle anderson that was here not too long ago and who is still willing to be a part of the discussion as a resource person if you would allow her to be involved that way she is still willing as of this morning she was asked if you would grant that she says she's ok to be a participant as long as of course you approve  definitely consider that request and we're grateful for her you know putting herself out there ok yeah ok ok all right well that's all my submittals thank you chair thank you very much a chair would like to know the or would like everyone to know that this meeting cannot go beyond twelve fifteen because it has an appointment with a person from the big island that has to catch a plane so i can't be here all afternoon we also have a state visit at two thirty this some of the testimony was about the water used to elephant plant our staff is working on the water used to go to plan we're trying to finish it in the next six months to get something that's titled draft water use development plan to start that process of going public meetings and the board of water supply eventually to council that being said this committee has essentially been reviewing the giraffe's of chapters of the water used to ellen plan since august two thousand and one i haven't been calling them that but every time we put on one of these powerpoint presentations with these twenty year projections they all start with these policy questions they end with the same policy questions where we try to put into perspective what we talked about from a technical standpoint with the council's policy choices all of the presentations really follow that format those are essentially chapters of the water use development plan that as we do the technical work we put on presentations we walk the council through it we ask for feedback you start seeing in our budgets and in ordinances us pushing to find out you know what the limits are how much can we charge do you support this so it's a little different than what you're used to usually it's something you know this thick it's draft plan and you start with it we've been running these pieces back and forth to you literally now for four years to get feedback from us you know you finally get a draft plan what we want we've seen this before this is the direction we wanted them to go in the water use development plan could go in a lot of different directions and for us to just going back you say this is what we think and then have you not even like the foundation of it is not an effective use of anyone's time so what we've been doing is treating us our editor and as we write you know draft technical chapters we've been running them by you so although it isn't technically finished you have been briefed on it you've been voting on it in ordinances  budgets and by the time it is finished our expectation is you won't be very surprised because you've been talking about it for four years now for director taylor i guess questions of director taylor yes we had ok thank you and thank you director taylor i'm just wondering if you know that is i guess currently in title projects that are good to and i'm kind of talking like maybe call home a village ok is there other examples in our in our county the way the process works by law is that when someone comes in to pay for their water meter when they're ready for their water meter at that time the department makes a determination are we ready to commit to serve you in this water meter for ever that's always happened with or without this bill that still happens what this show me the water ordinance does is say for specific class of projects a determination like that is made at this subdivision point so there are certainly projects that at this subdivision point are hitting this bill and there are not able to go forward there are other projects that don't get triggered by this bill that as long as we are ready to make that commitment when they want their meter they will you know they can move forward at the time that's mechanically what this bill does because so i guess what this ordinance is actually right but i guess what i'm still trying to figure out so there that that process what you're seeing is it holding up someone else from moving forward you know i mean like ok they've got their solution approval they have their water allocations and everything's but they still just haven't quite put the shovel in the ground kind of stage and you know here's some other people behind them go on we're eighty we've got our finances are good but you're gone but we don't have water free where has the water department come up with more source for people and then when testifier said the whole intent of this was to put things on hold while we the county can get up to speed and up to par with more source development to take care of one's needs and that hasn't happened either so on the county's behalf department water department about half that hasn't moved forward so i think the chair over arching this bill it's not about the bill it's a lot of different moving parts obviously and so i think but water department has a huge huge role to play in this in fixing what people are seeing as broken around here and getting housing affordable workforce where we want to call it for local people with roofs over their heads and so i'm just trying to find out if i guess i don't know about if people are just if things are being tied up on hold and preventing these projects that we're looking to get built for moving forward and is there where that water department can you know assist miss cochran hundred understand where you coming from if you can i was homeless national whatever stirred the pot then got people to the never show up that really show up to give their money and that's fine you know yes i think for the local people i don't care what they say i do enough discussion that first and foremost i think the water using development plan which has been long overdue i mean that's been something that since i walked in we've been working on and we've had so many different changes on it we need something that is definitive that the public and the council can work with so i agree with some of the testifiers that needs to be completed never said i was in a part of the plan that needs to be done so i'm willing to madam chair and listening to everybody today my whole take on this and my my emotion and i will make a motion right now and we can discuss further my motion is  file county communication fifteen twenty twenty nine file that in other words we will not repeal doma arguments and we need to wait for the workforce i think if we all work together it's not about me it's about we it's always been about a week but now everybody's running and said well let's work together when i developers were there the other side of the fence we all now want to work together i'll hold their feet to the fire i wasn't elected here just to just to be a bump in the law i was elected here to get the job done let's all work together and get the job done thank you ok i guess everybody wants to come  and thank you chair i've not sure if this could be added to the motion on up but part of the discussion what i've heard is this water plant has been in development or talked about since hundred ninety eight and i wonder if we can put some sort of a timeframe as to when we expect the completion of this water plan so that if that should be our working document such time and here's willing to to you know look at that we'd like to have a what do you say development plan so that if we do make changes or decisions we have something to base it on and in any comments from my members m the mr victor you know who made this bill to come up with something that works but i need you know there's a great discussion here we've got both sides and we want to we don't want to just say ok we're done move it and move along we would i would like to get something amount of to discuss so thank you mr vick you know you have my assurances and i'm still you dan and i'll tell everyone here and the public that you have my sure insist that we will be working on this right after trying to bring all the parties together to see what we can come up as far as some changes within the bill but i will say that i will predicate it with with the water available realty i'm not  strongly supports that promise you know as everybody knows i'm in my final year here the council has what it carry i've been given this wonderful opportunity and i am going to stay on this and i w we are not on the road as council members to tell any director what to do but i would strongly encourage directed and written to pay attention and let's get this done i think it's for everybody's benefit and you know we've heard all this wonderful stuff about working together today i think this is something we can demonstrate that we can work together and we can come up with ideas so i am in strong support on and i was watching them on on a cock of the testimony that was being conducted today or what's most disturbing to me is that the response from the water director regarding the water used to development plan t that's the first i guess the first inception of it or ever it's ever been touch was twenty three years ago and for him to say that we've been drafting it on the floor the last four years i was not aware of that or ever was told that we were drafting the water use development plan so by far and beyond i would like to see a draft presented to this floor so that i have more of an idea our capacity is in the county and what resources we have i hate song and dance i will not tolerate it this year i want to see a water use development plan so if you could indulge me chair and  dly request the department to produce a draft or whatever draft they have i don't care i want to see it in writing thank you i don't think mr guzman and the chair will make it a priority that we get a status report on it and  it very carefully and if i have to schedule it as in general i don't i will as soon as i can also it's not on the agenda for today so we want to be a little careful about sunshine law violations but we do have emotion on the floor and if anybody else would like to speak on the motion chair will entertain that if not i'm ready to call for the vote for question ok all those in favor of the motion on the f for all of the participation and i assure you that this is not the less you heard about this matter because the tear is making it a priority as well as my base chair so without further business this meeting is