working group by the end of yes and some questioning whether we need to have four more years maybe just one on one for each or just to spread the work a little i just just curious why anyone thinks that's consolidation again these are things that we cities are ideas resubmitted so a lot of this would just be dismissing consolidating all those so they might be so i mean it is a pain there will be only two maybe three other small subcommittees so that we want them to just be two know working session to a series number of twenty fifteen so they're pretty stale there so i would have thought that we maybe could have had a it's too late now to bring it up but i guess the goal session before i my response is this letter or its goals is that we kind of are inch our uncharted territory in the sense that the trustees might also have some goals and it could be profoundly time consuming for each word to assign all of their own goals so we were trying to come up with some kind of a synthesis that's i think that was  and the rewards or earn sensitives or what have you for accomplishing past said so now but on the other aspect of that what about disciplinary action how do we treat that constraint out of all of the goals that folks submitted including the ones that you understand in my opinion the only one that is truly measurable is the first one you submitted george was which is which is  alignment of town of village policies and procedures aligning all policies and procedures would not be achievable in the remaining years liveline evan should designate a specific cohort to be aligned everything else in this document that folks submitted is with the exception of  these really excellent list which is already included in the evaluation are aspirational and someone prescriptive and more guidance i can't measure whether evan uses his g goals from that because that has already put a great deal of thought into what he thinks his war plan is going to be for the next year and perhaps we could just put two or three of those as the goals because then we can specifically say is this forty percent idea of getting feedback during the here i don't think it's fair either to worry or anybody else that you wait for the day that their valuation is and any monies associated tell them they're not it's not like also we don't work together all the time but you know that type of thing is appropriate and whether there's three five goals as long as they are so i want to tie to the main mission of what you guys are trying to achieve so with the town of the village of top priorities those should be at the top of my list and so whether it is downtown development or the as eccentric plan or we have staff in would like to make a comment on what we just discussed about the on opinions regarding governance so i'm wondering if that's going to end up in combine into work or conversation about general governance yes that said i thought that evans plan was terrific so i think that's going to change in the form so many times that i think there's i don't have a lot to say about it right now that's our you know i i agree with the lady i couldn't really tell the difference between some people sort of expressed i it doesn't refer to anyone who has special interest i think i said in my comments to you that village the village citizens of the village who are citizens of the town  hones it was contributed to by the taxpayers of the village there is not a process or arm that the town operates that village taxpayers don't contribute to and so i would say village taxpayers or your constituents who live in the village have a one hundred percent interest in everything that's happened to us and i can't really see uni's losing log or in terms of finance for singling out  some subgroup any more than i would say if we locate if you want to make me say one main street in the police department are located in the village that that gives the village people because it's their geographically located in this part of the town some kind of special interest i think really what you're talking about are people who are not currently being taxed by the village to support religious services i think that's really more accurate description of what you're saying other than that i don't really understand what you mean by a group of people who have a special or separate interested of the citizens of all citizens of the joke so i invite that was what if i wanted don't don't really know what else to say well i would say we can look to the school district for the shining example because they just merged yet they have set aside certain seats for the different geographic districts because they're very different things going on for example the bussing outside the village there every single issue and i think what we've seen over time is that actually there wasn't aids and highway tax charged only to outside the village residents for decades which the village was not paying so  that is a group of assets that were paid for by people who do not live in the village so i do think it's problematic to say some of these statements that you said because  problematic because we've had no representation it hasn't even been a year since the question was asked by members of the outside the bill is just rigged if they could somehow retain the dozens and dozens of acres the essex town school district and at that time were about to be turned over to emerge district and the town of west for all the election to retain their land assets and it passed and they retain them the village  held an election retain the park street school at least because their voters were allowed to vote on it and when i brought up the question it was shut down from many angles including my own board but also by a bit as x town school district when i believe they should have been standing up for the people who own those assets until january for until july first of last year so it's not just what is currently omitted it's a history that if you look back in time there's been a lack of representation that has been problematic and i would hope that we would be able to see not just what exists or what doesn't exist but to look back in history and to see why it fact it's been so difficult to merge and perhaps we'll see that that lack of her presentation those extra charges for high wave expenses are part of a bigger picture of a lack of representation that we can now remedy by looking we're roughly at what is and what should be and make this aspirational not just a continuation of the past because we know the past has not always been successful when it comes to talking about a minute the reason it hasn't makes sense i can bowl is we don't have equal teams in the table we just set up a happening time and time again we have these communities of what i would call lopsided representation until we have equitable representation and we understand what that means and then we make it happen you are just perpetuating everyone who doesn't pay attention that i perpetuating this imbalance that will come back to bite us because it continues to do so over time ok let me just go back by just one just for clarification as i was in the room actually back to the ninety nine his or her the date when the select were made a decision to impose the high rate tax it why did they do that because they looked at the taxes coming from the fact that the village was being taxed to support purchase build plow that paved all of the town roads outside of the village and the town was contributing zero dollars to do anything of that nature inside zero the village was contributing approximately half of the town's capital that repairs all the roads pay for the town was contributing no no dollar pain in the microsoft and it will lecture the fact that some of us might also own apple stock does not diminish or in any way prevent us from from if you're if you own microsoft from participating in microsoft  talking about that's the essence and the substance of what we're trying to get at in so i think it's important to to to say let's let's get ahead let's get on the business of working but i think saying bringing in some of the groups that the charter would not do the does not recognise and that's the the village charter certainly would recognise i don't think that's appropriate and just to keep trying to say that i think it's it's sort of side tracking severe i think i'd rather see where we can go with this in c if we can't see it can't work this out we can if we don't put out misinformation when you say things in print like this that there are no town assets and things like that that have not been true for time and shouldn't be treated a if we were paying attention to these things i think we need to show greater awareness of the history here and talk more about how we're going to change the used to help the eleven thousand people who live outside the village want to buy into this new mission because otherwise they will be lost and they will set of their own overly district perhaps and have their own form of prestes which they're perfectly able to do that's perfectly legal the village is one hundred twenty five plus years ago if the outside the village folks have to do that maybe they will i would hate to see that happen i thought we moving together i'd rather not see another layer of government but if there's tone deafness in the boardroom to the plight of the actual majority of people living in the town over the fact that they can't get equal representation at any committee meeting where we're talking about this stuff they aren't recognized when we ask gee can our assets be retained can we have a vote so the school district doesn't get them sorry no you don't have a presentations you're not going to get representation and that's not fair to them and there's  serious and it's history of unfairness and speaking about the town outside the village as if it doesn't matter and unless we give it weight in our conversations and talk about how it doesn't matter how we're going to matter then i think in your equal representation they've got it i've done lots of tax equity stuff over time but i haven't seen any representative equity in the last five years and that's why i'm now talking on their behalf because attacks like what is happening the represent what he has not let's see if it was i thank you and i didn't mean to fight gave as i didn't it can we please just continue this conversation absolutely and we are this is the fourth street meeting i believe  we've had this conversation so can we please stop talking about what's wrong and what we wish could happen and do the work because we're actually working on it and let's just keep moving please when i see him is   i would just like to remind everybody that in evan's recommended work plan for the staff he suggests that we as a staff continue to work on the public works alignment which has to do with the highway tax because it funds rolling stock and the recommendation from the committee that reviewed the public works consolidation was that we pay attention now to the finances behind the revenue expenses behind public works and when that happens we will have a very detailed explanation about where the highway tax is coming from and where it's going but also want to remind folks that when we shifted the public works budget from the village into the town the way we offset the increase to town outside the village residence was two women a sick sense of  highway tax at the time so we used that in that we need to balance the books for both the residents in the village and the residents in the town outside the village we did not want to hit the residents outside the village with a massive tax increase so the way we solve that problem was to lower the highway taxes and so when we look at the public works consolidation in the future hopefully very soon we need to remember that there is that one percent or whatever's left where that one point one percent left that maybe something that we can use to offset increases on the town outside the village side as we even out the expenses and revenues for public works so i think that tax is very important it's a very good point because i just wanted to paid for by the village that's all the streets out here that everybody drives off we have a one hundred percent of the cost and we're not going to be proximately fifty percent of the cost for paving it makes the streets in the town outside so let's be clear about when we talk about fairness let's be really clear that we understand that there's there's different visions and different perspectives of fairness going on and i think that that was very poor when we talked about equalizing the cost  of now sharing the cost of taking care of all of the town worlds and making it all the village wanted to make sure and we were absolutely on work with the fact of reducing that highway tax and not having not having enough say good representation with things as they are but their perception is that the sunday that's just a perception that needs to be addressed and overcome so i think the charter change too you know fighting fight would be good it's going to be a lot e from the town and you know on the issue of tax i wholeheartedly agree there should be the same tax for in the village and outside the village and i think you just simply you know anything in the charter but there are state laws about i mean in the charter of birger or consolidation of there are state laws that say what you have to do with two communities need to do what they want to merge there's a process laid out th representation it seems to be antithetical to you know what you're all trying to do you moving forward working together everyone is concerned about everyone else so yes and ye to do that maybe doing that really good then later might be the way to go so that you know we could have that addressed really earlier in the process but if the charges allow you to appoint representatives that haven't been elected you know first change as to be to chart a change to make that happen and that's what you need to do recommend the first thing to be done is amend the charter make it legal representation and it's going to make everything else just flow so much more easily the agenda so that's harder to write her discuss which we least want to comment on that yeah i'd let me let me go back over that because we did i did i don't want to skip over that so everyone happy anybody any additional further believe each of us the definition is of these words it was consolidation culture governance i did a levels of service and then quite quite a few of them and reading over the the order to make sure that when we're using words which are very powerful that everybody understands what that represents so because again the whole market back in there's there's a lot of  ideas as to what these things might mean that the thought was we could have one more subcommittee to take these open if you have ideas for what the word should be that we move on and in talk about the words as they come up rather than having individuals in this group spend a lot of time trying to before him come up with even a lot of facilitating conversations and i have led some to silicon conversations and one of the most important exercises that groups do together when they're in marking out a conversation about something difficult is they define common terms so i think this is the right way to go i do think we need to define these i'd be willing to be on that subcommittee but i don't think it needs to be a very lengthy process one or two meetings and then we come back to the board with the recommend recommended definition a common definition still may not be the way that we run our lives to do ok book that said yes but we have the freedom to define these words outside of the dictionary we can define them in the context of this conversation so and i would think the goal of this can be this subcommittee would be to make those definitions relevant to this conversation so that we don't lose the cult status quo your question i like to hear you both your thoughts the i noticed in looking at them they felt there was a kind of a general some of the words were we took it upon ourselves to come up with our own definition and we put a lot of our own spin our little lot of political thoughts into it in other words we went on wi and i'd be willing i think it would be worthwhile to synthesize the interpretations of these words by each of the members of these two ports so that we're not losing the perspective of various people and word used within the definition of a particular word but i think we're like this we're doing this for us we're doing this for the public you know and we need to do it so that the public understands it so when they read that is what is what is  if i could for what mr kerry just i think randy randy i think and these comments about this turning into a radical it's entirely possible in this i'm i'm going to struggle to say this exactly the way it means but the ten of us kind of us are one thing if we invite public comment as we always do you are going to get so many different variations different than what the nine of us have come up with on i'm concerned that it's going to be come on hulu where we just continually for these words home no i'm not necessarily thinking that i think in order to move the process along i think the subcommittee needs to do their work but in some point the public is going to need to and we need to invite that but like i said mr banks may have one flavor of the word culture and there could be three or four other different ones all different than what we've the definition glossary are you defines your terms depends on what you're trying to do with them and is everyone here clear about is there an ultimate goal that we're trying my idea and it needs a lot of work was a charter change a recommendation for a charter change sooner rather than later if quick i'm sorry which would  basically former trustees and selectman but moving to a point where you would get three people from maybe from the town district three people maybe from a village district in one at large but that's a that's down the road responsibility to execute both the existing charters now why why did why one why did i suggest this idea first of all staff has said they need several years to do to do alignment  policy alignment procedural alignment correctly to do best practices and go through it carefully and do with do with the way i think we all want it done so that's several years secondly if we try to do a charter we have to understand understand and i think all of us do but it's important for everyone to understand the chargers are the glue that holds the whole communities all these communities together they enabled and as a taxing body be into t that owns the assets is to the charter designates who they are the charles everything gether and so if you is all charter you better have some place for all that stuff to go and we don't have a place for that stuff to go we're saying it's going to take several years to figure all that stuff to go but in the meantime are we going to keep meeting as to the or it's doing doing our usual two meetings per month to handle our own stuff and then also meeting once a month or whatever to as joint meetings in order to have an up temp town charter we would need twice a month we would do our regular duties and then we could also talk about all this governance stuff alignment and tax equity and representation and we could deal with it piece by piece and support all the subcommittees that might be formed it would cut staff work time and half i believe i think i'm not sure because half that i think would be significant diminishment time we could even begin to look at so we could conceivably within a year or two years have all of our bill something we've always all of us have said we should do we would have all our hopes on one day we would have won the annual meeting i'm trying to think of all the other benefits and we can get into the discussion i did want this to become the focal point of this meeting i think it's something that it's just a concept one of the throat of the or something for us to entertain the two big hurdles that i see are  anticipate there are lots of them but the two biggest ones are it would mean the rusty's suddenly are joining with a select ward next accusing the town charter the select the trustees had not been elected to a board to execute the town charter  in suddenly we would be doing that so that's a hurdle converse leave it would mean that people three people who do do not live in the village who do not pay taxes to the village who are not village citizens who currently could not serve on the village trust or trustees would suddenly be able to execute the village chart that's unprecedented so both would be this both of those things are pearls to get over but it would mean  we have to trust each other we have to take a leap into the dark we have to be really to say we're going to give this is a shock and if we both said as we did in our last meeting that we ultimately see a consolidated lord as the as the goal well let's let's see what we're let's see if that that might not work less tried calling the consolidated work and when we consolidate the board and suddenly the trustees are looking at all the things that the town these a look at like representation and suddenly legislature i like this idea i'm i'm i'm willing to give this a try and go down the road and see if we can make this work because it solves the an ending discussion of representation and by having that resolved we can then move to the topics that the town council people in the village people pay us to you i guess i'm just stuck on the ten member border because it does afford all people here to have a seat representing their geographic district at the start or almost all the all i would want to lose th i have what has need to have not large numbers if you look around in bodies like senate and houses of representatives they have district representation and everyone comes together and votes at large but they do not elect large members i think that's problematic it gives one district a chance representation within the town itself as excluding the village so it just it just gets to me after all here is just it keeps coming back to that so often it seems like it's less representation more taxes wanted to just hearken back to the g t a process which kind of stalled out recently well you're have to go maybe two years almost because there was a sort of a lack of trust because it was going to have one more of pointing members of the commission because not  concept you have to be from a specific part of the town or be the poor representing that part of the town you know there did could be situations where you have three folks from the village in the at large  before before your night you're separating ok so because your your if if if if we do with i think been proposed here maybe i'm wrong so maybe i'll ask the question when you say town district what does that mean i don't i i mean two words even when i put it up there that's ultimately what i what i would do where you go after maybe two years you have a town district and i don't know if you say a specifically a town  in that in that if you if you go to this situation where you have a so called town outside the district it has been said that there are some things that the current select board that does not does today that only affect individuals that are outside the village to you then is which would be appropriate and lawful to take the portions of the budget that are only of clyde outside the village and have those individuals only pay that so there is i'm not going to get all twisted up here because it's it it's got a lot to it's got a lot to do is really really because the what's considered today the town budget would be voted on a different by a different set of people their all time residents of course with a general town budget which includes the police for example a town inside the village and the town outside the thirty three separate budgets because the what's the how how people are from the two different districts was that because the village has things like a recreation district right now that it needs to manage it could vote as there was five people within the auspices of the council as we do here you know you can warn a five percent of what we're doing at the table every week all ten of us would be that how's business and i think that again if you can believe all would be awaiting maintain what we need to maintain until we bring everything together right this would be a temporary decisions for the village and there would be spending in policy decisions yeah i still have a mental block with that concept because in my opinion there is almost nothing if not nothing that the town votes on that the village doesn't have something to do with even if it's the budget for the town cemetery there might be someone who's lives in the village who wants to serve on the town sanitarium and i still struggle with the idea of a separate district for the town just voting on certain things for the town because the village still pays for all that so i don't want to get in the weeds now but that is i just struggling like that i  into the village to retain the right to spend their own money text itself and spend money the way they want to those outside the village have to also have to raise it if you're going to do representation that way to to go to tax themselves and spend the money that they want to to me is a single challenge with to incorporate details and is that even a thing legally might and i would rather see is one budget deal and we don't have a recreation district we have a direc apartment and we don't have a library district we have a library department so we're identical in that respect to the town so i would much rather make it less complicated and not have to have i would want to take a temporary super complicated although we have a topic about areas where experts should be hired and i think the other expert that i recommended assigns a governess expert is somebody to help us with the find somebody who can look at the  taxation structure of the and you had the revenue expenses and just say ok here are some places where you can just and here's some places where you are going to have to do something creative somebody who i don't think anybody in this room has the expertise to work with us on the finances in such a way as to establish tax equity from the mathematical standpoint so i would ask that you know what is this if we go to this first y to continue on as we are and run the can run the whole line that evidence is as proposed and as as things become a line i think there will be thin we would all have if we say we're being respectful to each other we would all look at these things and ok this is these are these are the fawcett we all have and these are all the things that we want to see a published if for so we would have that you know back