in this case all right tobias obtained in money judgment against certain defendants for breach of a loan agreement and in the money judgment the trial court awarded principal pre judgment interest costs and prejudgment attorneys fees to price then proceeded to collect the finest judgment by gauging in supplemental proceedings citations to discover in line and entitled to collect his judgment first before any other judgment creditor may collect any money so to prise proceeded to make corrections under his judgment by virtue of his citations now in this case surprise incurred a significant amount of attorney's fees collecting upon his judgment and that was primarily due in this dispersed hundreds of thousands of dollars to third parties instead of to my clients that's why there was a significant amount of post judgment attorney's fees in this case and in the attorney's post judgment fees in this case are in the ballpark of two hundred thousand dollars yes ok yes so petition for post judgment attorneys fees was pending any way a third party citation responded reported that it had about over three hundred thousand dollars available and duded to  question is is tobias's claim for potions judgment attorney's fees a separate claim from the underlying judgment of six hundred fifty six thousand some odd something but i'd say you've really hit it on the head you're out or i would say that it is under the case law and it's a claim ancillaries it's up well i would say that by being as ancillary it's not separate it's a part of the judgment and therefore it should retain the same priority but supported by the two cases in that w it well i might my submission to the court is that when the contractual rights of the parties is such that a judgment creditor is entitled to recover fees pre served and prior to people twenty third did you have any enforceable point i would say yes because the the the because we have a right to have our fees determined by the courts and when the sum of three hundred thousand dollars comes to the into the court's jurisdiction the court should adjudicate is really a claim that the judge white was w aware of but i would be existence of our feet claim and should adjudicate that claim prior to doing what he did here which is say i'm going to require that you take eighty six thousand and disperse the rest of the money to afford actually to a foreign judgment creditor who doesn't even have an illinois judgment and so the defendant weissmann i suppose i'm getting more fundamental i mean the supreme court ruled two seventy seven right to post judgment attorney's fees judgments subject to enforce them well it was that the answer to that is but it was a claim for ancillary claim for fees ancillary to our in forcible judgment and therefore since it's a part of it if it needed to it should have been and we were entitled to have it adjudicated before any fees were any monies were dispersed to take your honest  only be enough if the claim was in itself a lean upon those proceeds by reason of the two fourteen on to proceed as if their claim is separate from the six fifty six which i judgment better can avoid a citation to require a judgment creditor to spend a year and a half in collection activity and then when it comes to the day of having the judgment in forcible claim against that money that's being held the question is where's your pride work we're arguing the line of priority so i'm with you know i kind of more fundamental question it's interesting thing that kept bothering me while i was reading this thing you got a judgment for a total of six hundred fifty six thousand one hundred eighty five dollars and sixty one cents which consisted of the principle the interest and purposes of the issue of priority we submit that our claim for post judgment fees retains the same priority as our original judgment and it right because it is the claim proposed judgment send it back and now so it's white finally determine the claim that was before you and that would be all of your well i think judge wright the issue of peace remains to be determined before  court that i'm going to try to use about ten minutes or so of the at least time and that mr greenberg will have the remainder so i hope if i get too far beyond ten minutes somebody will tell me to sit down on this appeal raises a single issue and that issue to the rest of you say you know i've done your house well i think i think what happened was that we intervened in the case to express our position judge white did not rule on the validity of arlene what he did was say i determined that tobias is entitle to another eighty six thousand right that's right and judge white rejected that argument because he found as the parties all agreed that the sole remaining amount on the original judgment was a six thousand dollars plus change judge white said look i'm going to get that money and you're done your judgment l has been extinguished and there's no contest that in fact that that money was paid over let's let's get more please let's get warm one to find this sure his citation on m e m a he got  it and i think that gets to the crux of the matter and in fact by bringing this appeal i believe that mr tobias has acknowledged that it's a separate claim because the only way you get to this court is under rule three or four a day in the way you get there order of people twenty three was a final judgment on a tool for key to proceed and i believe it was and i believe it was because it awarded it actually it paid mr tobias every single penny of principal pre judgment interest and attorney's fees that he had been awarded in the original judgment in two thousand and seven and that is the judgment which forms the extent of the leaning that is created when the citation to discover assets is filed so he's paid one hundred percent deemed to be a new claim which is why you can be subject to all three or four but if you look at it look at the facts it makes perfect sense that it's a new claim it's not the same claim that mr tobias got his judgment in two thousand and seven  separate claim it is this is the subject of a separate petition it has different facts and it relates to a different time period and by the way coincidentally the time period during which dr weissman is alleged to have engaged in all this wrongful conduct that would lead to this award of two hundred  forty thousand hours it's after based on got a judgment so it is truly a fundamentally different claim it's different in the legal basis it's different in the time it's different in comparison to when greystone got its judgment in the rule three or four i think the case  is clear that a post judgment request for attorney's fees is a separate point and that's the very basis upon which to bias write his appeal in this case so i think judge hofmann hit it on the head when he said you can't have it both ways you cannot say that it's a separate claim and therefore i get to come before the appellate court under rule three or four but then when i get back to the daily center i get to argue it's the same claim so that when my week if not a penny has ever been awarded it several separate claim on it was not part of the judgment originally when they filed the citation so under section fourteen no to this this unresolved claim cannot possibly be a part of the judgment lien it was created that language of the statute it says that there's a winning for the balance due on the judgment the judgment that was and it was paid completely that's uncontested the statute does not say and by the way if you can come up with a reason to increase the amount of your judgment later on in the proceedings that you are original judgment lien will extend to those amounts if you're lucky enough to be awarded them in the future legislate legislature could have said that if it wanted to but it didn't  because there's no you know three or four you needed three or four a language so if you look at it that case is the same situation it's a claim for attorney's fees based upon the same contract that led to a judgment there was no free will for a language for the court said we cannot hear this in this case there is the last thing i want to dress because i fear i'm competing into mr greenberg's time is that the result that mr tobias requests it least in my view doesn't make any sense and it's not workable in a situation where you have more than one judgment creditor lined up to collect a judgment and this is this case is a great example as to why it doesn't work it's been over a year since mr tobias filed his feet petition for post judgment fees in the circuit court there's been no ruling as far as i know there hasn't even been an oral argument or haven't ensure hearing as to the merits of that titian i think there's been some procedural skirmishes i don't know when we're going to get a ruling could be another year could be two in the meantime what are all the other the other judgment lien creditors close to do that did they sit by and wait it and for how long a year to three and what happens in a situation when somebody is paid in full and then the next judgment lien creditor comes along and starts and forcing their judgment forces it for six months if you're collects a lot of money and then the original judgment one creditor says i have a new claim of a new ancillary claim and my claim if it's granted in the future should relate back what happens to the money that the subsequent for the extent of your balance on the judgment their judgment to this day doesn't include any fees they can pay their entire judgment and subsequent judgment when creditors are at that point title to begin enforcing their own judgment and they shouldn't have to discords money it's some point in the future the original judgment lien creditor says i thought of another claim that i kept against the defendant and one final point that i would add in terms of the timing of all this that i think your trial when you raise the we were in court before judge by on the morning of april twenty third two thousand and nine he indicated how he was going to rule he told us to go work on the language of an ordered come back in the afternoon when we came back in the afternoon it's far as i know a minute or two before the feed petition was filed and  handed up to judge white and he was told you can't rule because i just filed this the petition there's no reason even if everything that i've said is wrong here today there's no reason that that feed petition couldn't have been filed six months ago or four months ago and couldn't have been ruled upon at least  she would have been resolved and it was on it not only was it not resolved by april twenty third it's never been resolved to this day so i don't think it's appropriate to say that subsequent judgment creditors have to sit back and wait i think if counsel gets on the additional judgment tobias it will be a new debt of record it will be a new judgment he can file a new citation and get a new judgment lee and he gets in line behind everybody else that's the only way the system can work so for those reasons i would request that the april twenty third procedure it authorizes supplemental proceedings to collect judgment people order entered by judge white found that there were easy six thousand and some odd dollars left on the judgment and found it was it's the issue of whether or not there's there's post judgment interest or not i think is an issue that has to be decided before the trial court it's interesting if you look at the amended judgment that was entered in this matter he was specifically left out any claim for post judgment interest and assuming that the court knew and meant to say what it did say in that order if we don't even if there has been no determination whether or not there is a legitimate claim for post judgment interest i might say what was the argument for i mean what's the underlying argument they said that's an issue could probably be determined in the trial court but it seems that there must have been some reason to enter that type of an order leaving out the issue of of post judgment fees when the note specifically provided for the courts ordinarily you not to use the sax i'd like to point out just two other issues  we agreed to pay the full amount due under the judgment and stop the interest running as well as distribute the balance of money with mr leeds quiet we didn't mr what dr weissmann didn't want to get into the litigation after making dr weissmann the bad guy he was one of four defendants and he was the only one that paid and he satisfied the judgment in full from his fines and nobody else's runs i believe that  judge white's entry of that order was correct and in accordance with the with section two dash fourteen zero two the proceedings was for a citation the citation for was was satisfied the judgment is entered a judgment creditor begins most judgment collection proceedings and whether that proceeding will last a short time or a long time is very much as i know therefore in this case we were appearing before judge wright and numerous occasions on returns of citations issuance of rules turnover orders etc it be very impractical to request  when the collection process takes an extended period of time also that winning judge will write the ruled on the order that's appealed from there was a ruling if it came about i would say it was it was surprising that the judge ruled when he did it was not something that had been set for a hearing and we expected him to rule we simply expected that that would be briefed and taken in the ordinary course of things and judge  white was well aware of our claim for post judgment fees throughout this matter but we still we wanted a perfected when we were getting to the end of the process we also had it shown in the record a petition for indirect civil contempt which also such fees that was pending much earlier in this process and also had not been adjudicated by has not been adjudicated but that also shows what we were intending in this matter  i also want to stress that in the event tobias is not placed in this post judgement feel ward is not given the proper priority as his original judgment that's tantamount to saying you're to recover a zero on your post judgment attorney's fee award so when counsel politely says i'm a fund that's correct one of any funds was because we don't know what we don't know but i can just we know that from the record that graystone has a multimillion dollar there's also other creditors that are out there as well  i also want to point out the court that the point that your honor made as to the fact that gray stone is a foreign judgment creditor and what was it was granted leave to intervene it does not have an illinois judgment and i don't think the judge judge white had any a thursday action or authority granting it any relief whatsoever in this course and that that point is made in our briefs and finally the release that we see we would ask the court to rule here it is to reverse the order of its appeal from ordering tobias to accept a sum of money in full set settlement of his judgment full satisfaction of his judgment and then enter