return on n c i c creates reasonable suspicion to stop a vehicle where three facts about that check are true st that it was not yet complete or full nd that it didn't account for state by state discrepancies within the n c i c system and rd whether it wasn't even the actual basis for the stop in the st place and i think it's this rd factor that makes the case so maddening in that the government is trying to two lines of cases to get a favorable result of the st line that of cases where the or the police have pulled someone over for the wrong reason or for a reason that doesn't later pan out and then secondly the line of cases where they are depending upon errors from computer or or dispatch systems in order to later justify a stop i think that the essence of this case comes down to the details of the n c i c system   given their experience pursuit particularly with regard to entering out of state plates that they knew that no record return could come back in the computer system and that could simply mean that some sort of data had not been entered into retrieve the data correctly that it's not necessarily indicative that the go slow go slowly counsel because judge grass has questions about the not on file that's the st reply right and wrong nd reply is no record right correct well yeah yeah yeah they're different and they're different words does the record explain the difference in those two i don't believe so i believe that officers treated those two as functionally the same reply that is that in their world there was a valid played on file and then everything else and i don't believe that they treated those as being as being distinct and in any event neither of those two returns i think provide them with in disha that there is something illegal going on i believe that they both testified that in their experience particularly with out of state plates that was simply an indication that they need to delve further to try and find the record and both indeed both of them that it was common practice protocol indeed for them in that situation to check it a couple times and then resort to calling dispatch was was better trained at finding out of state plates it's true that both of those occurred before the stop right that is obvious the officers in the cruiser had searched on the computer two times before the lights were on right correct thank you for the timeline but i was a little confused by the time that they want to treat certain things as magic they want dogs to be magic they will computers the magic where if they keep it if they get word from a computer that something is true that they can then rely upon that and i think that the dapple ito st circuit case explains why that's why that's foolhardy even in a footnote to quote just so connors opinion in arizona vs evans where where she points out computers are a great resource to the police they should use them but they should not rely upon them blindly and that's you have your day i have misspoken you don't have that here today because the two officers in this case were never rely upon the computer to pull the car over which is again why the case is so maddening it's asking the court resolve a hypothetical situation had the officers actually relied on the counsel i don't we have many many many cases from this court in the supreme court and say that the subjective view of the officer doesn't matter it's an objective view of the situation it's  that it's true your honor i don't think the question is improperly for the court but it does ask the courts at that center and take into account things that simply didn't exist you don't have officers testifying oh i full cars over for not having a record all the time and there's not even really a fully fleshed out examination ouvre of what n c i c is because the reason in real life that they pulled the call over was because they had made a mistake previous to that in thinking that the c in this case both officers testified that they knew that the system was complicated with regard to out of state plates they knew it was to use one of my kids as terms of glitchy with regard to out of state plates they knew that there was there were problems in terms of what x expiration date so it seems that these two officers in the omagh police department writ large would understand that when you are dealing with an out of state plate particularly one  indeed actually valid that you can't simply rely upon a return of no record or were not on file that amounts counts of the arguable reasonable suspicion or something of what level do you think it is in some level of reason that you think it's never reasonable suspicion i think it is it is it is if we were to create them it is maybe alongside the hunch something that warrants warrants further investigation to get t officers that entered in the expiration of that appeared on the minnesota license plate it still would have returned a result of the record so for the court to find that and say i see a return that does not have travelers in the hands of a handful of police officers who know the trick to n c i c to enter in the next year for the expiration date as opposed to the present year and so when you have a that's that's that's a very sophisticated argument that really wasn't in the brief here right them protections i mean there minnesota is not does not border the basket but it's very close to nebraska that we have a number of people traveling through here was minnesota plates from missouri plates another another state that they indicated they've had problems with before up under reliance upon a computer system incentivizes officers to not learn the tricks to get to the to the correct counsel was their record made here because missouri has this variable deal were a number of years depends on my goodness how the car no and we again obviously in the record before the court we didn't delve much into the various nuances of misery's co educational yet i mean in general for other states that have all this weird stuff no i but i think it does underscore the point that you know when you are a local city police officer and you're dealing with a national database that you don't know where the data is input it from and you are understand the limitations of the tool you have to understand that you you personally as an officer possess an imperfect understanding of every state's corage trace and scheme you possess i mean you did the officers in this case testified they didn't know how the  apartment conducting multiple data checks using the information that was displayed on a suspect vehicles license plate the officers used to law courts and database that they are trained in using that they are familiar with and that they have found to be reliable  this officer hari on page sixteen lines fourteen and seventeen stated my partner had what is the information check of the registration on the plate via the police radio in the car so again not explicitly asked and answered in such a manner that the references have been to valid registration and what about the other thing that not on file the no record how much evidence is there about what that means or what did the district court say about either of those two phrases i understand those are the two specific phrases that came back i think it was necessarily explicitly answered in such a manner i think that the district court in already used it in such a manner that it was no record  no registration were interchangeable that's the way it was an error by the restoration and i can't resist asking the horrible question about every missouri plate even if you just came from getting it in rockport which is you know right next to of there and those states do gooders you know better missouri car could be stopped because goodness gracious we've got a system where you can't tell what the expiration date is even if you get the numbers from the vehicle people it's like reading a code about when you expiration is and how long it's good for so you could stop every missouri car and i don't know maybe true minnesota to so what do you say to that horrible oh certainly i think that the officers in this case had t it with minnesota plates now they're to beat multiple interpretations of that i would hazard a guess that these officers have encountered minnesota plates while in the brassica but they testified that they had not encountered that issue specifically with minnesota violation or matter how minor but even if we don't know that the clear does not find that there is probable cause for the traffic stop and instead eyes a reasonable suspicion standard the government would still succeed under that that standard or standard e lack of evidence the compliance for reasonable suspicion in this particular circumstance your honor i don't believe so and the reason i say that is for off vehicles to be operating on the road in particular situation the officers clearly have information that's readily visible that they can verify and based on that they found that there is no record on file with in the situation with carrying a concealed weapon and i think that the difficulty with you is why and how the officer would know who that individual was if the officer made contact individual but at least under nebraska law the individual have to immediately d disclose that they had it and still carry a weapon the officer seen just a also i think th the other surrounding factors would be necessary to have d it determine whether or not that officers resources and was sufficient to stop that individual to investigate further because that the d reason for my question gets back to the it good this distinguishing factor that the court recognized the st circuit recognized in that case in situations where it's just reasonable suspicion that someone standing on the street or in situations where someone the officers knew that individual had a valid warrant i think this situation more into that that's an area where the officers had permitted reasons for a better violation of the law was occurring and again my answer would still be that noncompliance or c check that's not necessary for the officers to stop the vehicle certainly one way to short one check of the vehicle registration on n c i c would be sufficient to warrant stopping the vehicles the nd check just adds to that reasonable suspicion and the rd database check coming back from the information channel by dispatch occurred prior to making contact with the individuals mister han on this corner which is similar to temporary it will take was quote on like any indiana registration take that the officer who stopped the vehicle had ever seen here there is no evidence that iran goes minnesota license plate was off like any other minnesota license plate i understand that but if you just keep read the next two lines dosser harney also says that he had never had any problem with any minnesota plates in the past and they volunteered that misery is a huge problem  the judge bennett said you know but at the end of the day what i keep coming back to is pretty pretty straightforward to me i sit there and i look at the officers run twice the plate they've come back that there's some problem with that i think they're trying to say th if it's not coming back as i just heard i've checked a lot maybe minnesota is one of those states like missouri where you have to enter the number so it's clear that they weren't stopping the car for that reason it's clear that they did no always wrong or was right only about half the time it would come at some point were were the local defense bar might say that we know when you when you call in to you know darryl the dispatcher and he's wrong half the time or he provides improper information at some point you have to start understanding you need to do more digging before you can start pulling cars over and i think that's what the testimony about the n c i c system conveys to the court is that these officers know that it's an imperfect system they don't really know where the data comes from they are imperfect in their abilities treat the data and know that they are on notice that with regard to out of state plates at least not on the brass the plates that there at times can be problems getting to the truth of the matter which is whether or not the car is properly registered or not and so you know again we're operating in a hypothetical world where these are where these officers are actually pulling the car over for there to register properly but in this situation there has to ok thank you all for your argument to the cork case number one thousand and twenty united states person anthony handle and case number twenty dash one thousand and twenty three united states for his car are submitted for decision by the court