welcome to the early bird breakfast of the michigan west coast chamber of commerce my name is john fliss i'm the director of marketing at use e m and i'd like to thank you for having me here great morning it's already been very interesting always wondered what six o'clock in the morning looks like and so i was able discover today being in the creative field this is definitely an early bird breakfast for me first off we'd like to thank all the sponsors that make today possible first national bank of michigan first sponsoring the precocity time and a thank you to our early bird sponsor good morning everyone i'm shannon birchall with tax us h r we're proud supporter and sponsor of the west coast chamber of commerce i'm thrilled to be here and really look forward to a great panel discussion first before we get started i just want to share a few things with you about x yes h r we are local company we're an employee owned company which is unique and we've been operating in the west michigan area for almost thirty years and i've been fortunate to be part of exodus h r for seventeen years and we i slide going here we have we offer three service units operating as a single age our solution in the market all of our h r solutions are focused on attraction retention and development of west michigan talent our first service unit is human resources competitiveness and culture the second service unit of our business is insurance advisors offering best in class medical benefits with a full service support model surrounding the offering and finally our staffing divisions which in this region focus on professional placements and skilled manufacturing placement asked kind of what keeps me going you know people are often surprised that i've been there seventeen years and i get asked you know why a one company for seventeen years aren't you curious about doing something now in the why is pretty simple for me i truly believe that the solutions that we offer employers here and the employees here impact and improve the quality of lives for those individual employees for their families and the communities that we serve so for me that's the why and there's a couple impacts stats up here and i think the one that i want to share today in the most proud of is an helping three thousand people in our area find permanent employment so that's the impact up here that i'm most proud of in that our team is most proud of we truly have a community based model many of you may not have heard of x t s h r until this morning we have a strong presence in the greater hall and in zealand area and what that looks like is we're helping small to mid sized businesses in this area in a few different ways tell attraction on board in planning for the future in succession planning retention strategies in turn recruitment and management through our talent health program offering employee benefits and employee employer education within benefits and project base and comprehensive h so thank you for the time this morning i hope you learned a little bit about x t s h r and i look forward to a great panel discussion today so thanks for your time thank you shannon now we're going to go to the fun a very fun portion the door prize today's door prize is brought to you by i do what kent insurance agency and the amount is fifty three dollars and sixty five cents in west coast cash why fifty three dollars and sixty five cents it's a mystery you're going to have to ask them to find out why and to do this since this is our last one for the summer we're going to have a little fun give me one moment here i have to get into the mind set here brought  sure today have enough to last about three weeks so i'd like everybody to stand up if you will please write come on get up and we're going to kick off th coast chamber to share some updates everyone i've got five quick updates for you the first is that the chamber's office in zealand has relocated we've moved up the street we're now at forty seven east main avenue right on the main drag right through downtown zealand we call it our ours eland innovation place it's open all day long every single day for member use we have a keypad on the back door if you're interested in signing up for it we have fourteen chairs and they're in this beautiful studio space you get a co from us we program it for the hours you need that building you go in and out as you need and it just is great working space for our members it's been very very popular and if you're interested just go on our website under meeting rental space free of charge and we'd love to see zealand next thing next month a month from today we want to invite you to our holiday office instead of early birds you know we don't do early birds in july and august we're going to do a summer coffee in our beautiful new holland space so that will be seven thirty a m on tuesday july eleventh hope you can us then third reminder golf outing the following morning july twelfth this year replaying at the ravine see should have information in your inbox if you need more information to see a chamber staff member would love to see a golfing number four our beautiful new business directories arrived last week friday they're in the mail to you but take one today we're very proud of this i want to see a special thank you to all the advertisers this is a listing of all of our thirteen hundred chamber members as well as information about our chamber and our community and finally today many of you each month fill out a survey following the early bird breakfast and we ask you how we can improve the breakfast and continually we here i come to early bird breakfast to make connections and to do networking and can we continue the networking after th breakfast so today we're going to do is when the panel is done jason i'm going to ask you to lead our superintendents out first to the side for your area we're all going to exit that way and creative dining has a range today for it to have coffee out here in the foyer afterwards for anyone who wants to mingle with our superintendents and stay and do additional networking and we're also doing this because this room needs to be turned over immediately creative dining has a huge event in here right after us so we're going to let them come in through the back doors all of us are going to exit through the side and that will give you some time to do some additional networking so with that enjoy today's program have a great summer and we'll see you in our office a month from today thank you school district or business cards like this long and he's going to intro and moderate our panel of superintendence take it away business to our region keep growing you help spread the word about innovative programs and partnerships and you play an active role in continued growth for students in our community find out how you can support doing more together doing more together dot org so thank you so much for having me here this morning it is my pleasure to moderate this panel which honestly does not need to be moderated because as you'll see they work so well together and there are such a group of people but i'm going to  this makes me feel more like donny here so i like this standing up aspect of it so this is nice so anyways thanks for being here this morning and i'm glad i get to referee this discussion keep you guys in check nights as i said before this is a great group as you saw within the video at the beginning we all work really well together and i think this is pretty unique to this side of the state to kick us off shannon can you talk a little bit about you know what is this collaboration like between all of the people on the stage and kind of how is that unique in the state first of all go first of all thank you so much for letting us all be here today j c asked how this is unique i would say probably in the state it's probably not unique to have a panel of people up here talking about education in a community but we actually get together and do this a lot and it's not when there's an audience in the room we do this to collaborate with each other to figure out what's best for the students in our school districts we also collaborate with community members and in businesses locally to figure out what's best for our kids coming out of school how we can benefit those businesses in those businesses reciprocate that with fantastic support of our schools well but i guess what i would say is unique about this in particular given the the world we live in and the way we all we're all competitive by nature is individuals and the way schools are these days that's competitive too and i'm not going to get into that too much but the fact that this group of people goes into each other's districts goes into each other's schools we invite each other into our districts and it's not just to show off everybody's got things that they do well that they want to show to each other we all do that but we also bring each other in when we've got an issue that we're trying to solve and in my case black river a few years ago we had instructional rounds over there and i was concerned with how we're diversifying how we're delivering our education to all learners invited all these people in and it seem they want observed in classrooms saw exactly what we do at black river came back with some nice feedback for us both in what we do well but then also on what they said hey shani know you guys could probably do this better and here's some training that you could maybe do that was incredibly helpful and that's a really amazing thing to have we'll call them traditional public school districts here none of the districts around here are traditional and have a faith based school and then a k twelve charter school all doing that together is unique and probably unheard of in any other place so today jim can we get your perspective on that as well you have a little bit of a kind of perspective it's not that you don't all work and the business side of things but jim you're specifically a c f o how does that collaboration kind of working together look from your perspective  similar to the superintendents the c f o get together monthly and we are always looking for ways to be more efficient more effective in our goal is to get more resources in the classroom so just one example and we've come up with hundreds of ways we work together one example is probably for two ten years now we've had a self insured pool for health insurance that has grown to over one hundred million dollars annually in premiums and what we did several years ago was we came together as entities challenge better superintendents to to lower health insurance costs and so we came up with a self insured pool with one of the leaders in that years ago and now we've got over fifty entities throughout the state and really west michigan was a leader in that without taking lean and now we've got schools we've got the city of zealand is in that so it's a cross government in the goal is to save taxpayers money and give benefits to employees that are affordable and also will help us retain employees knox so obviously we have a wide range of schools and school types up here lots of different programs it's really important that we're obviously working together because we all now we have to when milling resources we have to when knowing time we only have a certain i brian what's the step that we have how much time do we have a students on sorry i'm not put on the spot rights area so a simple thing  i often ask individuals and this actually came from karen mcphee who was a former superintendent of ottawa and i had to double check her math just to make sure but the question is from the time that a child is born the time that they graduate from high school what percentage of their life they spend in school and most people will say forty percent forty five percent sixty thirty it's actually eight percent of their time so from zero to five not all students are in any form of formal education at five years old to begin we're in school one hundred eighty five days a year six hours a day so collectively the education of our students is just not us up here it's the entire community we had them eight percent of the time and certainly we have to maximize that eight percent but that's a huge responsibility for the community to ensure that we're creating a talent pipeline to serve all of your diverse each and every year danka chalk a little bit about how important is it for our students to be able to learn live and work with students that might not look the same as themselves and be a part of different programs that do  that that's a huge important factor for us to consider in planning out education because as we equip our students they not only need to succeed in the world as it looks today but in the world as it will be you know i think the  kindergartners from this year are going to retire in the year what twenty seventy two or something like that right so how are we preparing them for what the world is going to look like at that time it was a depressing  so when you when we think about what is to come the most recent census data in the u s had about twenty million over a little over twenty million people age five years old or younger in the united states and over fifty percent of those are minorities and so i know that even in this holland zealand area we are seeing changing demographics certainly in that's racially ethnically but there's other factors as well and our job as educators is to help equip students to thrive in that world not only in the jobs that they do but as husbands and wives and civically engaged citizens and all of that kind of thing and certainly there's content area knowledge that can help with that but there are the skills of empathy listening and discerning and all of that kind of stuff that will make them relationally more successful as well and that's going to help thrive in business that's going to help thrive just as a general member of the community in their families and things like that too so it's something definitely that we talk about and work on together and it's nice to have resources of people who are dedicated toward that and because it does take us out of our comfort zones collectively when the world around us is changing but to be able to recognize that embrace it and move forward positively is a good thing yeah absolutely so i don't want to go on a downer no but it's not all sunshine and rainbows and unicorns we all know in school and  not even up here bryan sorry not to put not to this one your way brian sorry what keeps you there's probably a lot that keeps you up at night but what keeps you up at night related to education in school and running your district well fortunately it's not projected to have eight inches of snow tomorrow morning so that's one way in which we collaborate thanks to kelly usually starts about quarter to four in the morning and then we're all deciding whether or not to have school but on a more serious note i think the same thing that keeps me up  night keeps you up at night as well and that is development and being able to employ talented people in our industry certainly that's a shortage that we're all facing right now every one of us faced shortages this past spring and winter where we were unable to have substitute teachers to cover in classrooms and you're scrambling every day ten years ago eighty percent of the substitute teachers were teacher candidates looking to get their foot in the door into a classroom today about eighty percent of teacher substitutes are moms who have gone back to work and the average age of forty three that's coupled with the fact that since two thousand and ten we've seen a sharp decline in individuals going into teacher preparation institutions michigan state's teacher ed program  down thirty five percent university michigan's program is down forty percent we were producing thirty thousand teacher candidates in our state in two thousand and ten were just under ten thousand today so when we think about a talent pipeline to support the needs that you have we have a talent pipeline shortage and being able to have qualified individuals in the classroom an expression you talk about things like math and science and biology when you talk about a more diverse and globalized economy as we see an increase in second language learners those that have bilingual education specialty areas like autism and emotionally impaired all of these are significantly shortage areas for teacher preparation institutions and so i wonder what it's going to be like three to five years from now when we're already experience a substitute teacher shortage what does that mean for professionals in the classroom and i think that's that can be a good and bad problem right the good problem is that we've had a rapidly growing economy we're growing where although competing for the same talent this is also couple with the fact that i don't want to share my age too much but thirty years ago when i was a high school student going to college i could go out in my summer jobs average nine to ten dollars an hour thirty years later we're at nine to ten dollars an hour for summer jobs i was able to go to central and make enough money in that one summer to pay for my first year of college now the college costs are tripled or almost quadrupled since that time so teacher candidates are leaving if they can get out in four years on average with thirty eight thousand dollars in debt they're going to be accepting jobs where their annual salary is less than what their college debt is at three hundred fifty dollars a month the next ten years so as we're all growing and as we're all competing for the same talent those that have talent maybe driving towards those jobs are going to pay for their college debt and quality of life so i think while we have this growing economy we're also having and all we're competing now for that same talent and i'm really concerned what that looks like in our schools in the future because we need to create that talent pipeline for you therefore we need tailor in our classrooms that makes sense does anyone how do other people feel about that talent shortage issue is anyone else experiencing that as well or is this kind of a i mean am i getting nods or any other comments ok unfair you know just to expand on that because you'll hear data in the state of michigan that there are also a fair number of qualified certified teachers out there who are not working in the profession some of that is simply the  mismatch between what their credentials are and what our staffing needs might be there might be a pool of candidates with an elementary general education sort of certificate allows them to teach in a cave five classroom i need a high school physics teacher those are completely different sets and i can tell you from one year to the next there might be one physics grad in the entire state of michigan who is choosing education remember they could be an engineer so for all of you engineers out there th must ask for people being hired sorry about that and it was so to a couple with that problem of you know not enough teachers having a talent shortage within the education field the way that we're teaching and helping students learn is changing i mean the way the classroom looks and the lots of cases doesn't look the same as a dead five years three years even a couple years ago david could you talk a little bit about what that change looks like from your perspective and kind what we're expecting teachers to deal with in the classroom sure and jason frames that as a struggle and it is but it's a big that's the exciting part i think about what we're able to do today and i think as we look at the districts across the board up here we are all changing the way that we're working what we used to do and the system that was built was built in industrial age it was you were put in school and the date of your manufacture of the day your birth and you were just kind of put through year by year and every year you're supposed to grow and you're ready for the next thing not individuals ation that's mass production in that there's there there was use this term loosely acceptable loss in that we were ok that eighty five percent of kids graduated school because that there was some place for them to go if they didn't make it through with their diploma that isn't the case anymore that isn't an option and so the game is changed on our teachers as they're in the middle of doing what they were trained to do they came to teaching to teach the way that they learned and it worked for them and now in the middle of this we're shifting things and saying we have to deliver on the promise of all kids and to meet the needs of all kids that are at the vellum mentally different places and that looks really really different inside of our school buildings and that's even hard for some of our parents for some of you sitting in this room to say when we change something or we put our kit york kids into an environment that doesn't look like what you remember you have an s t d that mister it was an amnesia of what you used to have before right and so you think well it worked for me it should work for them they're not entering the same place in space that you entered our i entered in so we have to do things differently so we're at a time when i get to get in front of people like you we ask for your permission for us to allow school to look different for us to individual eyes for us to personalize to put them into into learning situations that aren't canned in a textbook but are authentic and engaging and are out in the spaces and places that you work we don't need all the time more money we need options and access to the experiences that you give your employees in this problem that you're trying to solve because our kids can do the same thing and that really and goldens them and engages them in processes and deeper level thinking that we can't do with a textbook and the environment needs to change one of the things that i think all of us would advocate for is that you know we have we have haves and have nots and we and we have to kind of level that playing field we also in the current system and the system that we're trying to leave we only give credit for things that happen between four cinder block walls in a controlled environment our kids learn informally all the time and they get no credit for that none because it didn't happen inside of our institute and so one of the things that you start to see from a lot of us is we're taking learning outside of the classroom we're trying to extend that day we're trying to find places where kids are demonstrating mastery and application of content and skills in context out in the real world and i think that's a game changer for us but it it really is all of us having school look different and at times we need your permission for that to be ok we need the community's parents permission for it to look different and not put us back in that box of what we used to know and what school used to look like so it's an exciting time but it is difficult for us to build that bridge in imagine and paint a picture of what's possible when all we know is that institution and education that's been around for one hundred plus years yes so dave brings up a anyways so you know we all have been through k twelve system we all know what we should look like what it should look like or what we've experienced but it looks drastically different does anyone else have a further comment on that or anything else they'd like to add to dave kind of comment or do you all agree with kind of what dave said and kind of yes you're all striving for that sort of a look do you have something i was just going to say it's absolutely true that most of the jobs that are do current students will hold in their lives have not been invented yet and so that's what we're trying to prepare them for there is a percentage that will be jobs that exist today but like i said remember twenty seven do something whatever that people are going to retire what is the world going to look like that it's going to be run by robots oftentimes it's not money that we need from businesses or the community it's your partnership it's your your experiences your essentially being a part of our systems and you know you're part of our systems already we collaborate in lots of ways not only amongst each other here on the stage but with community partnerships with businesses and that happens across the board even at the youngest ages of our kids calicut you talk a little bit about kind of what those partnerships look like and how businesses and organizations are helping even our youngest learners and in fact if you can't tell us we get along so well and it in the system kind pushes us to be adversarial because it's a competitive system and you know in your world too that you're competitive with each other in similar businesses but you still share and compare you know maybe not the inner trade secrets but most of it and we do the same and i can tell by the questions that are coming i know the passions of each of these folks on the stage and who to talk to about each particular topic and i think a lot of your questions i can feel the energy and each answer because i know that's where their passion is and that's what we try to share on our end we try to work so hard on these business partnerships and one that you keyed in on is is ready for school and a number of us have taken turns on that board i'm on that now and i hope i get to stay that's under the direction of dr donna lowery she's a medical doctor leading ready for school but kids who get ahead stay ahead and kids who start behind tend to stay behind and it cost twice as much to catch them up so we put as much as we can in that early interventions to get ahead and stay ahead so they do some work that helps push students towards accessing preschool and we all have preschool programs but it's also teaching the value of preschool and so are kids before we were around forty five percent of students in our area were ready to start kindergarten they raise that to sixty three very quickly their guide is to get up to at least seventy five now we've even tracked which neighborhoods do not see the value in preschool we're trying to get into those neighborhoods so it's not just in our school districts in our buildings you come to us we're going out to them and with the help of that organization it's happening the other one is the reading now network and really with the direction of representative price and represent garcia and you may not know that we had the educational leadership right here in west michigan so a lot of the good things that are happening are coming right from a spring locally but that put the spotlight on reading and we know that kids who read early on will stay way ahead of their classmates and kids who get behind almost always will stay behind in special educator nation does cost twice as much to catch them up so we try to keep kids away from special education so what happened there was we know that test scores are a direct correlation with poverty so you might say well that's cool districts got high test scores they must be awesome well maybe not they're probably pretty good but maybe not awesome and that school over there my going to say have low test scores they must be really struggling they might be awesome test scores are a correlation of poverty rates in your community the great schools are the ones that if your tests or your poverty rate say your test scores should be here but you are scoring here that's the great school so we found five great schools in west michigan on the direction and that was through pete haines through the intermediate school district and i can tell you that our intermediate school district is here to serve the locals they are not the leader do it this way it's what can we do for you it's really a magical system and so what's happened is we've what we came and visited those five schools and said what are you doing that's so amazing and so zealand had woodbridge elementary and they wanted to do this in a number of our schools and they went and visited and they're now putting those practices in place in woodridge and scores are skyrocketing just simple things and that's kyle mayor who's the leader and curriculum at the iowa city and so now we have sold many districts from around the state visiting zealand schools what are you doing in woodbridge in were sharing that with all of the so those are the partnerships and that's all connected through the businesses that are supporting it it's really classroom libraries is the magical tool there are a lot of a lot of things that have to do with the curriculum in the way were mentoring and reading with kids but if you have grade level of appropriate things to read that you like to read that's the magic of getting a student to read so businesses are helping us build those libraries that's awesome so you mentioned something i'm sorry like i'm in a debbie downer with today so like i'm really like taken that there the whole time good luck with the us you mentioned something beginning about the fact that we really do live in a competitive environment and we all get along we all have these meetings were share ideas share resources things like that but we still do live in a choice environment where if i live in a certain community use or neighborhood i can choose to send my student somewhere else that's not my local school or my local school district pete could you talk a little bit about how that a fax sorry to put you on the spot without one how does that affect the kind of the culture and the climate and kind of how we operate as local school districts thanks jason for giving me that you're always clear last year you wanting to work until twenty seventy two not really i was not not looking for to that choice and i do appreciate the opportunity choice is a good thing and i think everyone in this room and everyone on this stage would agree that when a parent makes a conscious and deliberate choice about what site can be the best provider of educational services for their child that's a good thing because we know when a parent is engaged that's one of those factors that is is just not get out of the park to know that we'll get achievement and we've got great choices across this county i will tell you in places when you ask that question about choice immediately competition is where we go we're business leaders in the room you understand competition competition is also a good thing in most places competition drives reform competition drives quality because those who can't provide the quality of venture to go out of business that doesn't happen in our schools and i just have to be absolutely clear with you competition isn't driving improvement in our schools collaboration is but that's a conscious decision that our schools have taken to work together to say we understand we are in a competitive market we do compete for the same resources and those resources come in the form of children in the funds that follow them but that's not going to drive quality if we're not dropping our guard long enough to learn from each other and that's why you heard you've heard it over and over today this room they work together and when something is working well in one school we don't keep trade secrets any longer we've decided we have a kind of a higher moral code that says we've got to share those those secrets and we can do better we also need to know that competition might not work the same in our profession because all the factors are we really don't we don't compete on a level playing field and that's not a complaint that's not an excuse just know that these school systems operate a little bit as apples and oranges from time to time our funding streams are different the expectations are different some of us can be selective in terms of enrollment our traditional publics have the ability to levy dollars to build their facilities but our charters don't are non publics you're kind of on your own in counting a lot of philanthropy so it's not a level playing field another area that is a significant burden and i and i know you're hearing about this our pension costs michigan's public school employees retirement system is a significant financial commitment on the part of our traditional public schools and i need you to understand this today the struggles in that system in those pressures are not the result of anything done by people on the stage public schools are not in control of their own pension system and i will tell you the financial struggles that we're facing are more about assumptions and commitments and contributions made over the last several decades so it is important to know that most of the pressures we face are coming from outside this group has chosen to look past those things because we've got kids in front of us right now and they need the very best that we can provide i'm thankful to be here in the ottawa area and when you look at these these gentlemen sitting beside me sometimes it's a little intimidating they're pretty sharp but it's good to serve here that i answer that didn't did i dodge the competition thing affected i was solid those well done well done so before we turn you over to the wild and get a couple of questions from the audience is there anything that you'd want this illustrious group to know before we ask any questions from them anything that you think is i would love it if they walked out knowing this i think i would just ask that you know as we look at a lot of the research that out here and i'm going to i don't want to date the room but i'm going to part of what we're working with are with parents who are from have been raised and in an environment in which we're losing the lack we're losing authority we're losing parents as an authority figure and we're not having that so when there's a lack of authority inside of our school systems our kids get that authority but it comes from their peers and not from their parents and so while i've said before we were not here to put our hands out and ask for money i think one of the things that i would ask for and i think these guys would agree with me is we need mentor ship we need you to come in and connect with our kids and to help provide authority where parents are because we can't sit and have those we can it's difficult to have some of those conversations with parents to say i understand that what you think you're doing for your child is the right thing and you're doing it out of a place of love but you're setting yourself and your child up for failure because we have parents today that want to be friends that want to say i'm empowering my child to make this decision when they're not developmentally capable of making that decision for themselves and while my friend has that or my friend does that i can't tell you the number of times as parents i've had to say to my nine and eleven year old but i'm not their parent and you're not going to have that because you're not ready for it you're not ready for that device you're not ready for unfettered access to the internet you're not ready developmentally ready for those things so i had to take a minute to kind of to ask for that help and that mentorship we need you in the positions that you're in and your employees to connect in a deeper way with their kids so their kids see more people working in the real world with all of the different things that you have to offer in the skills that you bring to the table in the experiences that you have that's a really important piece that we're losing in this generation of kids where we have that sometimes kids raising kids and there's this belief that we want to be their friend and we want our kid to feel good about themselves but in that we remove all of the struggle and the struggle is a gift and we take that away when we won't be that authority figure or that that parent that they look up to and we look to be that side by side friend because in that void to be filled in is being filled by other kids their age that don't have the skill set or the development to appropriate to help the propane is to help them make good decisions case if i can add one thing to we talked about significant ways in which your partner as a community one of the things that many of you are aware of you've been following what the united way has done with allison affordable housing that's a significant issue facing one of our families we have choice that's driven by parents want to be very engaged we have choice of students are moving from district a district three or four times a school year because of affordable housing and what that looks like as poverty has increased in all of our schools across the region as much as ten to fifteen percent a year that really challenges our resources and it's create a new need for our schools and that school based community mental health being able to work with families to provide those services onsite in the schools so many of us have school nurses in our schools already some of us have departments of health and human services but mental health i think and behavioral challenges that we're seeing in the classroom as a new piece that none of us are facing five years ago so we are working with the iowa state to bring a model that's in place and can't county with a can't social services network into some of our local base schools to provide that onsite mental health support we're looking for partners to help fund those programs to bring those services directly to our kids to help them be successful our professional staff development is focused now  trauma informed communities if you don't know what that is come see us outside the room all that we'd love to educate you about that in addition to teaching teachers how to teach reading effectively we're teaching them how to work with trauma children who are coming to our classrooms each and every day and that's the time is now done while i was with you right until that last little question there it will impact us certainly we know that the people enter this profession for different reasons and they might enter professions they don't they don't get into this profession to get rich but some we hope are looking at their future and our understanding what their benefits might be in the long term those things have changed already they've changed for the people that are sitting on the stage  might not know that because all we hear about is that the cost is going up but also people people have been have already been hurt to some degree we need to make sure that we don't write bad checks we need to not make promises that we we can't we can't deliver on later on so i don't want to be hiring new teachers telling them these are the things you can anticipate after after a full career and then pull the rug out from underneath them i'm not at all convinced we can't do a good job and provide a quality benefit that isn't a traditional pension we know that most of the rest of the world has switched to a four a one k model and i think that can be structured well i think probably a change does need to happen we see to make sure it's well thought out and it's built upon reasonable assumptions that's what got us in this mess bad assumptions as a reminder they're going to be out in the coffee area right over there for additional questions connecting things like that after the events of please feel free to go up that way afterwards jane and you come back up or ok so thank you and we'll be able to meet you