discussion is and will be for us in brazil and around the world i would like to invite the other panelists that will be joining us in this panel where we will be talking about the motivation projects they are developing to develop iot the united states is also another country that's been working on that direction we also have the case example of what's happening in europe so countries getting together so there are many different things happening around the world it's even hard to follow and track keep track of everything that's happening so there is an important discussion for us here to understand one how the landscape is shaping up around the world what china is doing what brazil is doing and more importantly what we could be doing together as well because many of the challenges that we are facing each one of the regions are common challenges that we will have to face not only in our devine individual countries but doing the last few years is very impressive so i think we have a lot to share here as if we could take five minutes to give a brief introduction of what we've been doing i will follow up with some specific questions okay so there are other government officials that will not be happy because may they could feel that they are losing some kind of power and that's what we aim to do with the the the the national  but i believe that we will talk more about that right now i'm just giving the the flow of the process that happened that took place inside took charge six months ago and i was joking that  so we will have a lot of room to play for the next six months so i'm very excited to take some insights here that could help me to design and to rethink other policies thank you impact that we would have with our clients that was our sole sole purpose since that founding we have done a ton of work with our colleagues in mgi jonathan is here in the audience  we put out a bunch of thought pieces on what iot could do for the global economy not only just for the private sector also for the public sector as well so with that foundation we have done  lots of work all around all around the globe especially looking at ways in which i ot could massively improve productivity productivity not just for the the private sector players were also for the public sector players as well so that's sort of the background of where we are now and we often ask in the forms like this things questions like why iot and what do you mean by iot for us iot really means a way to take physical things in the world physical things could be anything he could it could be this mic here it could be a camera there it could be a car walking or driving by and connecting that physical world with the digital world by collecting lots and lots of data that's one part of  iot is and taking those insights and making better decisions really driving different actions and better actions to drive productivity to drive better to b drive better economic impact for example for our public sector or private sector clients we work with so that's kind of how we think about iot broadly speaking now the last thing i'd like to cover in my opening remarks is what are the kinds of things we as public sector and private sector partnership could do to drive better value through iot there are a few things that would come to mind  some of these are from the scarves that we have on our backs were trying to drive impact and some of these are just the things that we've always thought should be addressed so let me give you a couple of examples the first and foremost  standards and interoperability of being able to share data share data across companies together between public domain and private domain we made a ton of progress in different regions of the world that still remains to be an area where more progress can be made more progress can be made and i think that is where that's where you know forms like this in discussions like this could you know move the cause forward and then find ways in which we could we could make progress on that the second area that we always get also get quite a bit of it's not so much peanuts cars in the back anxiety is we do a lot of work with their clients both public sector and private sector one thing we always always find as a big challenge is talent capability building and talent it's always been in in any in any revolution that isn't in this part of the industry industrial revolution talent being able to faster develop in deploy talent it's always been a very very big part of how and where you could drive impact so that's again at the forum like this we should cyber security again these are i'm sure you've all heard and seen in the last you know a few weeks about you know all the privacy debates we have in the us but broadly speaking privacy in in cyber security or the areas in which they're also somewhat how schools you learn on the other needs not just about how people learn individuals learn but also how schools itself can learn across many many departments so based on that basic principle we are physically at least our president manufacturing side so we literally host the so called digital capability center also literally co hosted with mckenzie that being one of the first asian based teaching center for learning how to deploy io technology in manufacturing grounds obviously that grounds goes both physically in specific factories also goes into the very large scale supply chain in general now on specifically that as a framework or thinking framework that properly not only understand the future of technology technology that doesn't exist today but also have a global perspective that's why we literally create a so called international relationship director whizzing this department usually most education department wizzing department wise they don't have this kind of function so so one function is actually going out around the world inviting students to physically come to shanghai and work in our digital capability center to try out very very different things so we literally for for anybody here wants to physically make anything we have connections to local of manufacturers as well with we have all kinds of manufacturing facilities from lazing casting iron aluminum and and silver so by the way anyone who want to make jewelry we can make it for you developing new policies and also we're developing new policies regarding blockchain worthy computing so that we actually allow and try to encourage factory to start using modern trustworthy computing technology such as blockchain to actually make the entire factory floor as it as a interactive trading floor for people need resources to share in combined resource on a very dynamic level so there are many many new ideas that's currently coming out i think i'll save it for later i'll enablers for that success to happen so we heard professor benjamin to talk about for example they keep a building the talent so i just wanted to hear from you what are the challenges from your perspective the whole in technology in the in the region in the inlet in america and we want to keep that position and but the discussions are taking place in two are clearly stating that machine to machine communication must have a different legal framework than the person to machine interactions  steps that the communication the machine communication should have and this is just the challenge the the main challenge after overcoming this we are hoping to to so they are not just paying for the this they are maintaining the platform in the government we only have access to it we will have full access we will input information but  will keep us in a tight spot always having to answer because it's what government should do government should always answer to society all the time so i believe that it will make us you know i couldn't say insights and driving impact i was wondering if you could share with us your views as you're traveling around the world what are the good references that you could share of public private partnerships and the case examples that are driving the most impact and why they are doing so yeah so the in the area of public and private partnerships the way we would  one it's probably one good example and i think as i said it's still work in progress and i don't think we would say that there are really proven out examples out there from a smart city standpoint that are driving the ultimate value yet but but there are some really good progress that's been made globally another aspect in terms of other areas there are i don't know if there are public private base that they would need for improving safety you know it's a very big deal in mining and also to improving productivity in a very significant way you could use sensors to instrument a lot of the equipment that goes in the mines those sensors would require some sort of a local area network in you know in a lot of these mines you may not have a good cell coverage either because they are underground or because of other reasons it's just because of the sheer location you may not get as much as much coverage for the connectivity in those situations we actually seen some either local local public bodies or networks and to drive connectivity that would ultimately drive value for the mining clients that would be another good example of how where we've seen some interesting you know an interesting collaboration let me also touch on one more thing that is where we would like to see more collaboration is in areas where you know for example agriculture in smart forming engineered forming and there lots of other  if you are a large former in the u s you have you know a several pieces of high capital intensive equipment that you own now the question becomes ones that equipment get sold to you from one of the big equipment manufacturers that equipment generates a lot of data the big question is who is going to own that data is that data owned by the oem so it did owned by the farmer because  already paid for the machine the lots of debates around you know the past contract versus the future contracts and and where would government come out on this and so there are a few things like that where perhaps patricia to your question we have not seen a lot of progress yet you know we could see some progress and similarly in a broad area of you know i've mentioned this in my opening remarks the broad area of standard setting is also an area that you know we don't think we've quite seen the evolution yet and i think that's another area that we would you know hopefully see a lot more evolution as we go forward thanks a lot  for the present and a follow up question of that if you could share a little bit your ideas on how we could hopefully work on a partnership between china and brazil to form more talents in brazil because this is one of the main level but in this case i i want to race one important in my opinion a theory that completely throw away the general perception that the economy economical success over the last let's say thirty years globally the vast change came from any super smart government policy maneuver it's actually as one specific thing happened in the late completely copyright free to be distributed across the world allowing any factory to basically attain this super sophisticated operating system allowing any number of activities in processes to interact and being machine to machine governed by some law but this law is written by engineer and this law enabled quick replication of manufacturing capabilities across the world not just china but also vietnam america taiwan korea etc etc because of this quick replication of capability that china and many other places were able to quickly replicate the production techniques and success of regularity across multiple layers the society including organizing people so effectively the rule the law the code that regulates between human human machi machine machine and human has actually been made free and this regularity became very replicable already in s and that's i believe that's primary reason for why we're seeing such a lens like shi and based on that simple fact the two previous speakers very beautifully articulated first of all we on a microscopic level we have to have machine understandable code to manage activities that different time scale from nanoseconds to hours even for years then later we talked about smart city we talked about factories and mining sites those things are a mess of scotty scale that we have different subsystems and sub organizations to interact with each other on a certain level however in the field of data not only on a microscopic mesoscopic but also on a macroscopic meaning international level the data would not stop at these boundaries it will specifically internet of things technology is so much relevant to public policy because now we are not only living with human sitting right next to us we're literally living with data that is everywhere and that power and that implication is so deep that's much more than economical much more than technological but it is actually in some ways even we can talk about spiritual in consciousness in that consciousness that goes across border goes in for a long period called very very vast amount of spaces that understanding is i believe that how the law that there were the the policymakers were talking about and also the technologies that we're talking about must be able to engage in in and understand and therefore that's why we need to have a new kind of school that basically consume and also basically digest this information so we can produce a very different way of talking about technology and also inserting policies that you'd like to make any questions general has a single five year policy plan all plans are submitted on the five year cycle so we including professors in universities we basically live roughly speaking on the cycle so then every five years well basically in that previous two years was gathered together in various forms similar to this that we'll be talking to each other talking about what were we set up for the next five years big goal and then we'll be writing up the same and then every five years the central government will basically set up a huge sets of proposal selection and granting process and then the whole process that the whole industry as long as the academics goes along with this kind of psycho planning obviously this is not new in china as you can imagine this came from the original soviet union kind of a central planning cycle and is still being done today so that's on the highest level that's the case but i actually did prepare a set of slides but basically specifically talking about this in a sense that not only planning in five year cycle is relevant but also things especially new technology that's pop up from the from from the from everywhere from the grassroot also has infusion so then in that case the key opportunity for chinese government to to adopt ors also allowed them to happen including the most most obvious situation was blocking bitcoin activities recently popped up that there are so many layers of communication going on at different level so put it simply i actually constantly make fun of i myself and that the chinese people in general i say the chinese people is no more a kind of one point six one point five billion people kind of population is actually one entity connected by this thing called we chat so we are actually which happiest right so so so we're just can't distributed life form that to recover a very large space so effectively but you know which we chatting each other that we are we are talking to each other on a very very frequent level obviously information that could be fake news that say that that but you have so many people using as such a fre high frequency is likely to be filter out obviously in this short cycle we cannot talk about planning purely using wechat but we chat definitely has very powerful communication and information filtering powers well thank you very much for this wonderful stardom very pleased that the aygo is a super graduate in playing this leadership role around the digital economy in brazil and i think everyone for making the long journey you  d sort of by implication to some preferences that you are going to embed in the policy framework free flow of data for example respect for privacy and security but  s you know mindful of where regulation or approaches could go to inhibit innovation that was sort of the implication of some of your remarks and i think have you alluded to the fact that one of the things you focus on a standard thinking about what are the standards so i wonder if venket could take us a little further into that standard discussion of sort of what are the benchmarks that you think in the design of systems you have to be careful of if you want to be mindful of security but you don't and privacy you know but you don't want to inhibit innovation four thousand years what change it was our software in the last three hundred years we apply the software of the scientific method and we started to use it's a product of what society is doing for a while and the legislators think eh that's a good rule for everyone to follow so let's written it down and it's going to be a rule and innovation is the opposite of is what society is doing for a long time and things hey i should change that i have ways to make it better to make it more efficient so the very concept of a regulation is opposed to the yes who owns the data and what if and is just a big but it's something that i i thought and i've been thinking since that the last week but what if we don't have to own data if data becomes low income people currency because today poor people low income people have access to facebook whatsapp twitter search  search engines as google or bing or yahoo and they pay with their data so what if in the future poor people could have more access to knowledge more access to fiscal goods paying with their data so if i try to regulate now not knowing what's what lies ahead i could be blocking technology  legal framework on data protection and data flow regulation yeah thank you very much iago the question on standards let me me perhaps do a paint a picture on two different ways me define the problem and then perhaps we'll give you at least our emerging view on how this problem could get solved so the problem with standards right now as we speak is  speaking from our own experience in the past few years when we go and work with any of the private sector clients we spend enormous amount of time just to get the data and clean the data and then find a why is there why is it that that we're spending so much time in collecting data it's because there is no one standard way in which you like the data first gets generated and then there's one hundred and one standard way that that there actually gets  know pre personal computer era where we're all kinds of standards we had you know at some count twenty three or thirty eight depending on how you count different operating systems out there that kind of you know they were trying to promote their own their own way of doing computing either mini computer based or a personal computer based computing we're sort of in the same space in iot we have so many different ways we can either generate their and collect data and and and put them into data lakes and you know things like that and several of the established companies and startups are trying to solve the problem as well that's the problem now going forward we do see some interesting evolution   we probably won't see globally one or two systems that would have one or two stand it that would prevail but we do see by sector you know for example you take healthcare the needs of health care in terms of data generation they're a collection in their dissemination could be quite different from my previous example of mining so we do see either a sector by sector or a sub sector by sector some level of evolution of standards that would happen lot more work to be done and this is an area that you know there could be some publicprivate sector partnerships and if the partnerships could be sector by sector there could be some interesting partnerships in health care area could be public public's a private sector with some proactive policies in the you know from the public sector we can go a long way slowly over time took over become the dominant data protocol allowing all data to somehow carry over on over wire and now wireless and then in one thousand nine hundred and ninety five tim berners lee created this thing called world wide web in the actually obviously is laid by thirty years because internet was ip then world wide web but now the last ten years or the last two three years there was another way of coming up which is called the blocking data standards  universally has one common global digital clock called by ten minutes resolution block by block that everything can be somehow cryptographically in coated with one  any specific one organization and specifically as of what we know bitcoin or sokka blockchain community when it comes to any so called that standardization there were all kinds of fights maybe we should have them  talk about international standards and and then then by having some kind of international standards or specifically in the data world there cannot be any non international standards there is no data in format currently on the internet it could be localized i think at least they will be difficult so so in that case if i think that's again where interdisciplinarity comes in very powerfully icing engineers are not trying to take meetings or to run meetings and also we are not trained to be policy makers but on the other hand we have policy makers and business leaders here i think that's probably the best opportunity for us to really make iot or data format becoming a discipline of we can quickly reach some kind of consensus on how to build better common and dominant data formats thanks a lot professor we had i will take just let's take the two questions and then take the opport for the last six years in a brazilian foreign service here in new york with where as an educational aid and i'm working indirectly to see why university through the schwartzman scholars program so and i guess this is the first warm monday morning in many months s it seems like a dream i have two questions and probably i'll retouch about some of these things that you said first probably to tiago and related to both are related to education the first one is how do we educate governments and more specifically i wanted you two to talk a little bit about you know the last four years specifically since the the very exciting moment of the markussi feud internachi and how how has it been with everything that is going on in brazil how has it been to to communicate it not only from a point of view of negotiating with government and negotiating with this new government that is there particularly in this year you've mentioned a little bit about you know the the perspective of changing the heads of ministr starting the end of this year but more than in terms of negotiation in a policy sector but how do you educate governments on topics that are quite not known for most government officials right when we talk about productivity  government these are beautiful things but government officials are not necessarily worried about that and in their priority and the second question and more perhaps to venca and benjamine is it's a very broad question about how do we develop talent or how do we think about youth and education and i wanted you to talk about one partner perhaps venca talking about partnerships between governments or even mckinsey and universities and if you benjamin  extend a little bit about any pedagogical reform right how not only are we thinking about forming the engineers to be more of politicians and be more prepared but how do we form students coming out of tsinghua on having both the technical skills but also the political skills to be leaders and interpreters of of necessary changes and in those views well thank you thank you let me just take the second question okay so because we need to close this panel and we will have so let me suggest the following because jaguar needs to leave he has another panel and we need to close this one okay okay concern on the security issue and that goes back to the new legal framework that you're talking about is how to protect the public in this huge transformation that is occurring you talk about a new legal standards in effect we use the old legal standard when thiago talked about agreement people who get on this have to agree the agreements are made by groups of lawyers who understand the intricacies of the on the existing legal system and it's not because people don't have patience it's that because they cannot possibly understand these legal documents who is going to protect them from getting to the point that know they agree to get on and then you ask the question who owns the data who owns what they agree to and this question of ownership makes me think back in terms of the industrial revolution before we decided who owned what a small group of people owned all of the factories and left the people sitting looking for jobs this created this great inequality that we have how do we reach a point now of including the best interests of the people when in effect we have governments brazil china the united states most of the world who focus on the interests of business primarily we have no representation of the people and i'm sitting here as an anthropologist who works with people who are mostly poor and say how do you protect them i mean i can go on one example in brazil is this you talk about cryptocurrency the people of the p invented a currency to enable them to function and it is being taken over by a bunch of statisticians and mathematicians and using it as the basis for what we know of much about final file financialization as a gambling device how do we get to protect the people it's a question i'd like to iago needs to go to another panel he's gonna come back after that and we have this event going up with you for today so these questions were very important very big i don't expect that our panel speakers here close and to the first question education it may sound that i've given up but i didn't you do not educate government you educate society and society elect government that were made then we will have the rest of the day to address  he'll be back he'll be back to us that is a big unlock the the the countries and the societies that figure out a way to develop talent there are lots of lots of history  there are models like that that we do believe that would need to be adopted broadly broadly across different geographies in different countries with the sole purpose of  revolution would create an areas where you will have massive amounts of shortage of talent and i think that's an area again going back to our earlier remarks that's an area where public and private partnership could go a long long way and rethinking about your curriculums rethinking about subject areas rethinking about what would drive productivity in the broader economy leveraging all the we talked about this morning that so many things are moving so fast that we need a way to learn faster but learn faster not meaning that we learn the same subject with shorter time we have we are faster in terms of constantly knowing that we need to learn and consequences before it happens and the profit the possibility in your head may come out to be bad or good consequences then you have free will to choose so this process of thinking at the speed and with the capability of of things that we will be able to learn so much faster than any of our previous generations and we'll be able to see through possibility in so many different directions then any of our prior  has been able to do so that's is is going to change the way we actually engage and also conduct our existing curriculum we need to teach in different kind of sciences different kind of statistics extreme statistics like later a professor that's grouped how are we talking about so we need to totally branch out to different areas of fundamental sciences they're actually both easy for people to do and teach at early age and also at continuously a ages so how can we literally have d printers in cipa for example so you can make any of internationalize gadgets that suppose technological events and also internet enabled so so so rule roles and capabilities in schools will change and that's roughly what i call extreme learning process thank you thanks a lot professor i would like to thank you all for being here today and opening this event with us i just would like to highlight that in this first session we discussed we started talking about internet or things we talked about government role we talked about the collaboration between public and private sector but we ended up talking about how  talk about internet of things it's very common that we can't talk about values it's very common that we end up talking about these critical questions about how inequality will shape up with this new world i