absolute zero point to have some performance taking place in chicago of less of more than consequential nature whereas you have depositions discovery taking place in in  illinois in addition to the fact that though you had all of the preparations eric and the litigation taking place in the offices here in addition to the fact that you had part of the negotiations for and the other is the specific we're talking now about a specific right the general would be involved the question of whether they were doing business on a steady basis you have a presence here i don't know how much time is going to respond on that but at least as of this country what accessed that database they did it via the internet whether it was maintained here in chicago or in philadelphia at the main office of the law forever didn't really matter i don't really see the accessing of the internet  while you have your debt you have to go to the meeting where you're sitting in east chicago and the attorneys are sitting in chicago and yet you're both on big plasma screens in i def a nation so that it appears like you're real both in the same room and you're having a chat about the issues in the case is this subtly influencing the courts when we look at the lawyers that we're he did receive your east new jersey rather than east chicago issues you have a place in the long term jurisdiction consideration even though it's a matter of opinion i don't know how significant this point but it does because really if you look at the older cases the cases that you and i were probably when we were young lawyers and had more here it was darker the inconvenience of the mischief i mean a lot of the cases that came to the supreme court came out of an attempt by one party to terrorists the other party by selecting the venue and making it is inconvenient is possible causing them all kinds of money and extra expense because of their choice and for free that's really reduced dramatically the state so that contacts may have a slightly different meaning today than it did even twenty five or thirty years ago in the case of burger king well if we're talking  is it is oppressive for you in two thousand and ten as it might have been in one nine hundred eighty  it's almost a little difficult to accept the notion that if you're seeking out and you actually employ a law firm from another state to do work for you that you would never even in vision be hailed the illinois  of their fire they simply do this in a vacuum i mean i'm being a little bit unrealistic here you're acting as if the lawyers are doing things without their clients how do they get their work done without the active participant participation  argue with this minimal contact argument and find our long arm statute which is similar and almost identical to every long time statute country you're going to have to stress the denial of due process uphill climb that i think you think the east chicago is going to be denied due process by having to be hailed in two illinois courts just as they would have the same problem it seems to me  know with indiana if the roles were reversed what's your best due process activity for saying that your client has been deprived of due process by this lawsuit being filed in i would submit to you that the reasonable us best bring you a bit of concern about and a bit of a balance and i'm not saying that it's a it's a contest between the order operation in upstate maine mom and pop and for some reason you were foolish enough to hire  a law firm in the city of chicago to do some collection work for you and they did a couple of minor collection things they collected a couple of debts and you realized out of their work for you you realize he nine dollars collection and then they sue you in cook county alleging all kinds of stuff and asking for a hundred thousand dollars trial time trial i'm going to name you're the little guy oh you're the you're the mail order guy and now you have to get on a bus because you can't afford an airplane ticket and you have to take the greyhound all the way to chicago there's a there's a commercial norbit that's what we have services here what does this render our money and i mean so i ask if you have something like that but the services will ren here and i that's what it's about i work for c n n money i mean so i'm just saying you've got these services that were rendered and you back dispute over the money for those services but you know i would there was a meeting by chance there was a convention is chicago or someone other more appropriate location of the american bar association and a lawyer for target you know when generally speaking we prefer that people sue people were the defendants located i knew it would mean it would have been a great inconvenience for you to go to lake county indiana well and on the clear cross the country or even clear across state lines in order to be hailed into a cook county court when it would have been just as convenient for you to file your lawsuit that certain municipalities are  that sort of language in the statute and example let's say it's a small suburban community in southern california it's far away from here if you can possibly get without being in the ocean and the city i'm out of dispute contacts and her continual reaching had throughout she would have your relationship in which they initiated that relationship they wanted an illinois law firm and you went from the very beginning all the way t a person travels outside their state to seek assistance precisely wish to hear they travel into illinois to seek the assistance of mormon laws that if they were going to lodge a complaint against that service provider here what we have in fighting an indiana town infighting in illinois law firm to solicit business in india where the made mention five meetings over a two and a half year period where there was five million dollars in fees jet he had four cases pending in another jurisdiction so i guess the question then was the due process argument is is it reasonabl it was a really oh i'm not believe me i'm not saying that there's not communication between the morgan was lawyers and the city of the chicago i would suggest you get the the case will be taken under the advice well