good morning this hearing will now come to order to welcome today's hearing in title setting new courses for polar weather satellites and earth observation of this is a familiar topic to this committee two thousand and three there have been seven hearings before the science and technology committee or various subcommittees on the subject of the national the national poll or orbiting operational environmental satellite system mercifully there is an and the department of defense would continue to receive daily data necessary for civilian and military weather forecasting needs in the two thousand and three hearing the life cycle calls for impose in march two thousand and three budget was six point one billion dollars with the first of six satellites expect to be launched in two thousand and nine in last year's hearing the lifecycle cost estimate had grown to at least fourteen point nine billion was intended approaches only for satellites with a first has undoubtedly been snakebit at least we thought we knew the snake that bit the real problem appeared to be the program was crippled by management structure that delayed decisions at critical moments the try agent the management board imposed satellite at all at that hearing we were told that one agency should be put in charge of managing the program either d o d or or no one did take responsibility for intervening to rescue the drifting program but instead of putting one of those two agencies in charge of s t p adopted the solomonic solution of cutting the program into satellites flying in orders to collect early morning observations were developed and launched by  with their newly christened defense weather satellite system know it would do the same thing with their renamed joint polar satellite system to collect observations in the afternoon no it would operate all the satellites while in orbit and would reach to receive store and share the data with this decision has removed the block over which we have been stumbling in the last few years the snake that appears to have bitten this program repeatedly  that is not all it will be required to guarantee success there was a reason for having a single program in the first place in the split in splitting the problem into may simply create to progress with the same old problems there player reasons to keep attention fix the lea programs for example even though we now have clarity about what agency is responsible for which mission this clarity apparently comes of the cost of delay and confusion about which instruments will be flown to which satellite and  n will the satellite launch there's a contractor the still has continue or if the old impose program sub contractors with instruments in various states of development what is to be the fate of those work efforts and when will those decisions be made our other discussion today grows out of the experience our experience with imposed back in two thousand and six all the climate sensors being prepared to follow and impose were removed if we  to if we anticipate having to deal with climate change or i'm sure dr brown would say the possibility of climate change for decades to come how can we eliminate a need for knowing how well we're doing it has been clear that this is sation was ill fall through and would have to be reversed without those sensors or similar capabilities are ability to strengthen our earth observation networks as a whole will be compromised we asked g a o to examine the current state of the strategy rather necessary climate data answers that we don't have one at least not a comprehensive strategy that is a subject that we hope the administration witnesses can discuss today we have spent almost six billion dollars already on the imposed program that the original projected cost of the whole program there is not a single completed satellite to show for that time and money we do have however two signs that read now under new management i know it is the hope of everyone here that the new management for the now two agencies to promote programs will be the solution to what is a impose induced global warming so anyway thank you mr chairman i want to welcome our witnesses here today at this important hearing and to thank you for your participation this is the committee's first hearing on the joint polish satellite system but the seventh time we've looked in the previous program the imposed program national poll orbiting operational environmental satellite system imposed was originally planned to create synergies in cost savings by combining the defen satellite program with within the department of defense and the polar orbit orbiting environmental satellite system at no zero instead the program doubling costs from from six to four satellites degraded  capabilities and its schedule slipped six years now fifteen years later we are back where we started at last year's here and i ask questions how do we get here and where do we go from here my question today is where are we going to ministration announced plans to restructure the program last winter but as mr power points out in his testimony but quote because neither agency has finalize plans for  acquisition the full impact of o s t p decision on the expected cost schedule and capabilities is unknown unquote until we receive this information we can fully review this new program while it is understandable that it will take time to restructure and ministration consult with congress and with this committee in particular given its history with the program i look forward to working with the administration and with the chairman as we move forward as i said at last year's hearing every american is impacted by this program where they know it or not it is our responsibility to ensure that the farmers fisherman war fighters and everyday commuters continue to receive weather and climate information but we must not forget to be good stewards of the taxpayers money and root out waste inefficiency  abbott is the associate director of the energy and environment division in the office of science and technology policy ms abbott directed the task force established by dr john holdren director of o s t p to evaluate changes in the management of the  the changes that will be needed to bring nasa into the program mr gill clinger is the director of the space and intelligence office providing  oversight for all department of defense space and intelligence programs within the office of the undersecretary of defense for acquisition technology and logistics mr clinger is currently elaborating what changes if any the odi plans to make  for polar weather satellite coverage in the wake of the station to transfer responsibility for acquiring mourning over morning orbit satellites to d o d and then finally mr david palmer is the director of information five minutes for your spoken testimony or written testimony will be included in the record for the hearing when you have all completed your spoken testimony will begin we will begin with questions and each member will have five minutes to question the panel it is a practice   do you swear to tell the truth and nothing but the truth the record should reflect that all of the witnesses took the oath i should say for purposes of understanding the flow there is a likelihood that we will be called for but it's at an a appreciate the opportunity to appear today to discuss the decision to restructure the m post program and the administration's efforts to improve capabilities firth observations as you mr chairman noted the end post program was created sixteen years ago t two combined civil and military operational weather satellite capabilities that would provide global weather coverage storm tracking and climate monitoring requirements the tri agency construct of the m post program was intended to integrate the talent technology and resources of the agencies into a single converged operational system d o d was responsible for major program acquisitions and contract administration no earth was responsible for satellite operations and nasa was responsible for developing new technologies in spite of this vision of coordination and efficiency and in spite of multiple attempts to improve its effort execution the program has consistently been behind schedule over budget and under performing at the request of dr holdren assistant to the president for science and technology i convened an executive office of the president task force on this matter starting in august two thousand and nine with participation from the office of management and budget and the national security council working closely with the three agencies the task force performed a thorough analysis of the program its content cost projections budgeting acquisition issues and related management options the task force found that the major challenge event pose was its structure jointly funding and executing common ground on a single program with a single common platform and a uniform set of instruments this is because the three agencies have different technical objectives acquisition procedures engineering and management philosophies risk tolerance and approaches to managing budget adjustments these differences lead to continue developmental challenges as collating costs and increasing risk and consultation with the agencies the e o p leadership decided to disaggregate management of the satellite programs by prizzi's proceeding with separately managed positions the key elements of the restructured program will retain the observational requirements of the end post program however no and d o d will be responsible for meeting these requirements through their assigned orbits no with nasa acting as a acquisition agent will be responsible for the afternoon orbit d o d will be responsible for the early morning orbit the european organization for exploitation meteorological satellites will continue to a provide observations in the midmorning orbit the agencies will continue to partner in those areas that have been successful in the past such as a shared ground system the no a portion of the start restructured program is called the joint polar satellite system the d o d portion will be called the defense weather satellite system this structure is codified in the sector guidelines in the national space policy released yesterday the program restructure accomplishes the following goals first it reduces the risk of schedule slips and cost increases by clarifying acquisition authorities second it allows each agency to manage its program within its own agency culture and environment cert it  accountability responsibility and authority for each orbit fourth it allows for greater government control over the development process since that retrains strategic coordination across the civil and defense programs and six it aligns with proven acquisition centers i want to be clear we're not canceling the program but merely restructuring the procurements to put the program on a pathway to success taking maximum advantage of government expertise will be using all of the taxpayer funded investments for the future satellite programs the decision is supported by the long history of reviews called for by the congress and the agencies as well as independent reviews of the program plans for continuity of another of a number of earth observations from space have been tied to and post at one point or another in the program's history with a no n post decision by scientists the administration is focusing on the broader issue of the development of a comprehensive strategy for earth observations we're working internationally through the group of earth observations toward the development of an integrated earth observing system with leadership in the u s provided by the agencies through the u s group on earth observation in addition the substantial increases in funding as part of the president's proposed f y eleven budget for nasa's or sciences program will be used to address this the pressing issues related to the nation's climate research and monitoring capabilities and climate data continuity and the administration will be drawing on the analysis of the us geo as a first but very first significant step and the development of a comprehensive strategy for thought servatius in conclusion oh s t p will continue to play an important role in coordinating interagency c satellite observation policy successfully restructuring the end post program and ensuring continuity of weather and climate data has been a high priority for the administration's leadership team we will continue to meet regularly with noah nasa and d o d to ensure a smooth transition of the program to meet the nation's need for weather forecasting storm tracking and climate monitoring i look forward to working with the committee as we move the end post program on a path way to success and as we move forward with a broader national strategy for  i'll be pleased to try to answer any questions that you may have chairman miller ranking member brown and distinguished members and committee of the members and staff of the committee i have to appreciate the opportunity to testify in front of you today i've been working closely with secretary locke and under secretaries of chengde go to ensure the continuity of the critical weather and satellite data that this nation needs as has been highlighted here by the opening statements it was imperative that a decision be made to address the acquisition challenges facing the end post program as follow on programs and pose the joint polar satellite system or j p s s will address our requirements to provide global environmental data and support our mission since the admissions administration's decision to restructure the program now has taken several steps to ensure that there's uninterrupted reliable weather and climate data we have established a transition team including members from the department of commerce snow and nasa with participation of the department of defense we've made significant progress moving forward including defining the organizational structure and beginning the process of locating and staffing the j p s s office know and nasa are assuring that we have high performing teams working on the program and in particular lever gene and placement of the civil workforce that we have at the integrated program office today concurrent with these activities we've already we've also moved forward to ensure that the end pose requirements for the afternoon orbit are appropriately translated into program level requirements for j p s s the integrated program office oversight has been reassigned to the air force space and missile system center we have a no a senior engineer with significant experience  that's been assigned to work with the center for close coordination the i p o has issued guidance and outlining priorities for work stoppage and in particular ensuring that we maintain and pose preparatory project n p p cost and schedule as a top priority due to delays in the end post program it's been necessary to repurpose the end post the n p p satellite from a research mission to an operational satellite all the instruments have been  delivered for integration onto the n p p east satellite and no is supporting nasa as efforts for launch of this satellite the j p s afternoon or a bit will maintain observations that were planned for and pose in the afternoon or that we anticipate that nasa will soon manage control of the sensor acquisitions in early fiscal year two thousand and eleven no will continue the development and fielding of the ground system network that was to support and pose in its users the president's budget provides adequate resources to support now as efforts for completing the development of the ground system which will be used by both d o d and now for both the morning and afternoon orbits as i've mentioned continuity of data as a top priority and the basis for all of our considerations after careful analysis of technical cost scheduling programatic chris with input and advice from nasa no one has decided to appear a clone of the n p p spacecraft bus to support the j p s allow us to meet our launch readiness state in two thousand and fourteen and minimize the potential of an observation gap we're still working with nasa and d o d regarding the spacecraft decisions for the second spacecraft that will support a twenty seventeen launch readiness  during this transition phase our ability to make final decisions are still coupled with the department of defense due to d o d s decision making timeline on the spacecraft bus a level uncertainty still exists regarding the resolution of the northrop contract until the contract is resolved now i know it will continue to be exposed to additional per curiam and scheduling costs risk i would like to briefly address the two g g a o reports that are subject to this hearing no agrees with the recommendations in both reports and i would be remiss if i didn't acknowledge the tremendous effort of o s t p has undertaken over the years to address the importance of continuing critical space brace climate observations with respect to the re the g a o report released at this hearing addressing risks that jeopardize contineu of weather and climate data we appreciate the perspectives of the g a o professionals in their regular reviews of the end post program every project the report provides recommendations to both the secretaries of defense and commerce and now agrees with all recommendations in this report and conclusion now appreciates the committee's continued interest in the success of the agency's satellite programs it's widely acknowledge satellites are very complicated and difficult systems to design build and operate however now was acting quickly to support the feb first two thousand and ten decision to restructure this program and i too would be happy to answer any questions you may have nation's ability to make important weather and climate measurements nasa's role will be to manage the acquisition and integration of the j p s s program elements on behalf of noah as the nation's civil space agency nasa is fully prepared to support g p s s nasa and more specifically nasa goddard space flight center has over forty years of experience developing large scale operational space systems for nella nasa goddard developed the first operational weather satellite tyros one launched in  one and has continued to support no through development and deployment of the geostationary operational environmental satellites and the polar orbiting environmental satellites further nasa has decades of experience developing in supporting system research satellites many of these capabilities service prototypes for operational missions such as the aqua satellite launched in two thousand and two that demonstrate the capabilities intended for g p s s at present nasa is developing the n post preparatory project n p p to serve as a gap filler for the afternoon orbiting weather satellites i must emphasize that n t p was originally intended to be a risk reduction mission for the end post provided instrument so the lifetime and data to me so the lifetime and data delivery requirements are not the same as for j p s s however the experience that nasa and goddard have obtained working with the end post program and its contractors on have provided considerable knowledge of the critical systems required for j p s s therefore the acquisition of j p s s while a large task is extremely well aligned with the existing capabilities and experience of goddard the j p s s program at goddard will lead integration across all of the elements of j p s s to ensure delivery of the required data products for weather and climate this activity include spacecraft ground systems and instruments including the critical visible infrared imaging radio  cross track infrared sound or advanced technology microwave sound or an ozone mapping and profiling suite of instruments all three agencies remain committed to a partnership that preserves and enhance of the nation's weather and climate measurement capabilities the three agencies have established a joint team to transition the imposed contracts and activities to the responsible agencies with as little disruption as possible and we expect to have contracts or contract modifications in place by early fiscal year two thousand and eleven nasa is working with noah to establish a high caliber team of experienced personnel to implement j p s s the team will be a combination of nasa no employees with six significant experience and acquisition space flight development and earth remote sensing for nasa in particular the j p s p s program team will be composed of personnel from n p p as well as members from the successful hubble space telescope servicing mission for the lunar reconnaissance or iter solar dynamics of the orbiter and three launch goes and series of geostationary satellites and missions last i would like to report that all of the instruments for n p p have been delivered for integration with  spacecraft including the imposed provided rears and chris instruments with now a full complement of instruments we are beginning testing with the ground system and in to support a launch date of late two thousand and eleven in summary nas committed to a successful g p s s program nasa will build on its long relationship supporting know in our experience with operational and research earth observation satellites to minimize data gaps and provide the nation with the critical aabs operational observations observation capability needs once again thank you for the opportunity to testify today i appreciate the support of congress in this committee and would be pleased to answer any questions thank you i believe we can get the testimony in will be called but during it but we have fifteen minutes which really turns out to be twenty five minutes i at least so we can we can complete the testimony that i suspect will break the you will be at ease and w our questions mr clinger for five minutes mr chairman dr brown members of the subcommittee i'm honored to appear before you today to discuss the department of defense's role in ensuring continuity of the nation's environmental monitoring mission in light of the restructuring the national polar orbiting operational environmental satellite system program as the director of the space and intelligence office for the undersecretary of defense for acquisition technology and logistics i'm pleased to join my colleagues here at the table today i think our presence here today reflects our collective commitment to continue to work together to meet our nation's weather needs and that's certainly the defense department's position the environmental monitoring mission serves a critical role in day to day weather forecasting and provides critical support for nearly all defense and national security or security users so i share your concern learns about preserving continuity of environmental data for all users in this regard i'm pleased to report that the department of defense in close coordination with our inner agency partners has made considerable progress in executing the administration's direction to restructure and pose and to continue to pursue capabilities needed to meet the nation's environmental monitoring needs since receiving the e o p direction the under secretary of defense for acquisitions technology and logistics has chaired three defense acquisition board reviews to assess follow on options and acquisition approaches to address d o d responsibilities under the restructure and ensure transition of former  elements to the appropriate acquisition agencies at a minimum the d o d program designated the defense weather satellite system or d w s s will be available for launch in two thousand and eighteen and will meet or exceed defense  meteorological satellite program or d m s p legacy performance while ensuring mission continuity in the early morning orbit the d o d is deliberately studying available options to ensure that we strike the right balance of cost performance and technical risk while staying within current budgetary constraints to meet the on orbit timeline required the d o d will leverage technology and previous investments in the end pose program the d w s s and j p s s programs will share a common ground system based on that design friend pose under the restructure ground system development is a no one nasa responsibility no will operate d o d satellites on a reimbursable basis as it does today for the defense department with respect to d m s p additionally the visible infrared image or radiometers suite or veers and space environmental monitor and pose sam and are prominent in our plans for use on the d w s s program the air force is also developing an implementation plan addressing the most appropriate microwave sensor and satellite bus to meet d o d requirements and the attended procurement strategy further the procurement strategy will seek to maximize the government's investment and then pose it will focus on the best mix of cost technical risk and capability and where a political support know is j p s s program we plan to finalize our procurement strategy not later than august tenth of this year whether observation and forecasting has greatly improved over the last four decades due in large part to space based environmental sensing global high resolution measurements of atmospheric temperature density and humidity populate mathematical models for weather prediction our war fighters need accurate time sensitive weather data as a key enabler for maneuver planning weapons employment and intelligence collection d w s s will continue to provide critical global environmental information to effectively employ military capabilities and aid in the protection of national resources thank you for your time today and i look forward to answering any questions that you may have mr blair did not use all of his time outstanding mr pounder for five minutes chairman miller ranking member brown and members of the subcommittee we appreciate the opportunity to testify in th disbanding of the end post program in our broader report on the need for a long term strategy for climate and space weather observations first and pose when the task force led by the white house's office of science and technology policy decide in february of this year to disband the end post program and go back to separate satellite acquisitions for nolan d o d many of you this is fixing the problem is our report being released today points out we are far from fixing the problem first both no s programs are not completely defined nor the detailed costs and launch schedules although to their credit last week both no and d o d announce the key sensors they plan to pursue in their separate acquisitions transition risks are significant these include loss of key staff supporting the other agencies requirements and litigate costs near term budgetary challenges are also a major issue as the agencies are continuing work on and pose while starting their new programs in addition their slowing work because contractor terminations liability payments and other litigation costs are still unknown because of this we are recommending that no one d o d expedite decisions on the capabilities of the separate satellite acquisitions in the associated costs and launch schedules and to effect of really manage the transition risks in addition to the major issues in addition the major issues that lead to and poses failures are still relevant to the new programs and either no nasa or d o d should lose sight of these these include technical complexity specifically the viers instrument plan for the first j p s s satellite is high risk contractor and sub contractor oversight performance should be a major focus area as should rigorous program management in addition an executive level oversight structure still needs to be defined for the new programs finally the agencies can't repeat the past for it inner agency coordination that plagued and pose no one nasa will need to work together effectively on the new civilian satellite acquisition failing to effectively manage these transition risks and the separate satellite acquisitions could result in the combined programs costing more than n posts in addition further launch delays are likely to jeopardize the continuity of weather and climate data of particular concern is keeping the demonstration satellite known as n p p on schedule as it is to replace the final operational pose that is expected to reach the end of its lifespan at the end of two thousand and twelve all indications are that n p p will slip further than the nine months indicated in our report turning to the larger data continuity issue in two thousand and six when the imposed program was restructured several in space weather instruments were removed to save costs knowing that these could be addressed later or on other satellites this complicated an already chaotic approach to our nation's long term environmental satellite observations there is no overall strategy to ensure continuity of climate space weather observations despite the fact that for over a decade federal agencies and the climate community at large have clamored for one interesting lee a white house sponsored inner agency working group has worked on a short term strategy and is even drafted a report that identifies and prioritize these climate observations this could form the basis for a long term strategy that ensures our nation adequately monitors the earth's atmosphere oceans land and space environments as we heard this morning from plans to work on this strategy in summary mr chairman no one deity need to define and effectively manage their separate satellite acquisitions now that impose has been disbanded but in the near term the transition risk need to be effectively managed once the scope of the respective programs are agreed to any additional gaps and environmental observations will need to be addressed in the strategic planning efforts currently being led by us t p mr chairman this concludes my statement  i'll wait longer than i usually would for an objection that i without objection so granted so this this the topic of this hearing is not really one of the partisan fault lines in american politics and the republican staff does not object to our are going forward so we will go forward but  but the solution of having no i have one satellite with the afternoon orbit in deity having its own satellite for the morning orbit felt a little like a kindergarten teacher sending one child to two children to different corners because i can't stop arguing and we do need you all to get along with you need to get data from no i know what needs to get get the data from  and we need to make sure that you all play nice in the future mr clinger what plans does duty have to work with no one to make sure they get the data that they needed to make sure that you get the data from nowhere that they have that you need mr chairman i think it's not just plans that we have we actually have an ongoing interaction right now with both know and nasa start with one point we're going to continue the relationship we've had but i mentioned in my opening statement with respect to ground operations the ground system in the on orbit operation is the defense department will be dependent just as it has been know for the ground system and for the operations day to day operations as we are with our current generation defense meteorological satellite program  but looking forward one of the reasons we are moving very deliberately within the defense department is to ensure that we do not take an action unilaterally that inadvertently places any of no or nasa's equities and specifically the n p p program in a disadvantage position so everything that we are doing with respect to the defense weather satellite system is measured and assessed not just through the lenses that we would normally use on the d o d only satellite system which would be defense and or intelligence equities but in fact we thoroughly ensure first within the department that we're not going to do something that has disadvantages one of our civil partners whether that's in terms of thinking through what we want to do in the morning morbid but absolutely with respect to what changes we end up making if any to the existing contract so we and no one nasa in my view are we're very comfortable with the arrangement we're moving into we have literally again decades worth of history and cooperating with the department defense and sharing meterological data we work closely with the air force i personally stablished a working relationship with general sheridan who's the director of satellite missile command out in california that will have oversight of defense weather satellite system and we've been talking back and forth as has mary keyset my director of our satellite line office so i think that we have this experience doing that as we have a lot of commonality among our users for sharing of data there we work closely through the office of federal coordinator for meteorology as a central focus for coordinating requirements and things like that so i'm quite comfortable moving forward  decision through to an endpoint and i would add that all along from the beginning of the task forces operations until reaching a decision the communication and coordination across the agency says been extraordinarily good we've had a lot we've had a lot of difficult moments in which we've had to deal with some some issues that are hard to decide but in fact the cooperation has been quite good and we have been able to negotiate through a lot of challenging moments and i think at the end of the day we've got a program going forward that it that is consistent with where the visions of the agencies and their particular program send it  said that there are still challenges and uncertain to use in a polar satellite program what is your take on the importance of agency cooperation and what must be done to address  so it's it's great that we're mr cleaners making comics who want to work together i think the key thing moving forward is if you look at the first satellites that are planned the no a satellite j p s s is almost identical to n p p i mean that's the plan and when you look at the initial plan for do you do you clearly see their requirements when you look at the microwave sensing capabilities the same instrument that mr klinger mentioned it i think it would be very important as they go forward with the four satellites that there's a sharing of the sensors that will be included so that the different agencies requirements are considered that was clearly one of the transition risks that we mentioned in our report that taking into consideration the other agencies requirements is still vital moving forward mr power you testified that we still do not have a comprehensive plan strategy for climate observation what is who is who is your who do you who is it that you think should be in charge of developing that comprehensive power policy that comprehensive plan how should we go forward to make sure that we correct that deficiency i think there's been some initial steps through the office of science technology policy there's an interagency working group and they've put together some initial plans that lay out  climate observations that we need to ensure that there's continuity i think there's seventeen key observations that they're focused on and i think the key going forward is that o s t p continues to exercise that leadership role so that we have the appropriate interagency coordination those considerations of the seventeen priority areas into real priorities aligned with budgets aligned with agency cooperation and coordination and developing a strategy from that just a two minute recess so i think there are members who are planning to come back of their war and i think we're going to we need to check on their status if not we'll be done but we'll be in recess for a couple minutes and you all can talk among yourselves this clock and i think what i would comment on is i know and department defense i believe are both very interested in leveraging the expertise and experience and investments that the government has with north however we've made no final decisions on going forward at this point is to clear as i mentioned in my opening statement one of the things that is a priority to us  within the department also to our civil agency counterparts and partners is to maximize the degree to which we can take advantage of the investment that we've made and pows and that at the first order includes the expertise that as the prime has gained in general at the moment just offer the following that the contract right now is under the purview of the air force and its contracting officer we're still working through what the specific changes that will attend the restructuring will have and that may or may not require some renegotiation and changes to the contract i don't think as a result it's appropriate for me nor are we really ready at this point to provide those details there's no question that as the air force sorts through that in the run up to the deadline of august tenth the air force will prepare and update the acquisition strategy including the specific contract issues and those will be submitted through our office to the undersecretary dr carter and that will become clear mr pounder any observations on the need to know how to expedite issues with contractors how to resolve those well clearly i think the decision moving forward will be the size of the bus in the you know clearly with j p s s when they decide to go with an p like us but the size of the bus will drive decisions that will be a key driver going forward in terms of the amount of contract leverage m locating devices the emergency satellite communication systems and there's an assumption out there that if a mariner if aircraft goes down and that a per goes off that the authorities will be there in a very short period will know you're in trouble know where you are whatever what does happen with with the search and rescue satellite data tracking system and the  system and what's going to be the impact to the consumer on this i'd be happy to take that one i certainly agree with you sara search and rescue capabilities that our satellites provide are really a tremendous benefit to society and in particular to mariners and aviators this type of instrument we've flown for some period of time time it turns out to be a highly reliable instrument and for the most part last long after the life of other instruments on a spacecraft so today for example in the afternoon orbit we have three of these that are currently running and operational with our decision to go with an n p p like clone for the j p s s one that particular instrument won't fit on that bus however we're still searching and will be looking at whether we in fact need to fly it because of the redundancy up there and on what platform will fly that not time frame so that remains an open question now but you should not doubt our commitment to ensuring the continuity of that capability well you know i really worry about seeing that get bumped on this technology because you know when we've got a f eighteen go down the systems being depended on for pilots we we require it on american flag boats we really encourage civilian mariners to carry this and this is something that somehow the united states will will keep this umbrella protection i had the experience last year of losing being dismasted often nicaragua's my family there was assumption there that if we really really needed something we could we could flip that and with matter of hours people would know where we were and we were in trouble my biggest concern is what is the lag time now and should we be telling our consumers now that look maybe you want to go to the spot system maybe you want to invest in a private alternative because the federal government's facility is not going to have the coverage or the capability that we said it was going to have within the next couple of years congressman bilbray i'd like to assure you we will have that capability there we're committed to providing that it was part of the j p s s suite so as we make decisions going forward i don't exactly what how will fly that instrument will certainly keep this committee and you informed about that now by the with out the polar sensors which which are really the locators i mean are stationary you can tell us that somebody is in trouble but trying to figure out where they are precisely is absolutely essential in this how do we make that assurance if we're not going to have that as part of our poll our polar system it will be included in the j p s s system it's just not going to fly on the the first bus that we have announced so we have more decisions to make and we'll be making them in the months ahead about how to fly the one climate instrument that isn't flying called t c s the total solar radiance as well as search and rescue and there's a third set of instruments known as user services data collection capability so all of three of those announcements are yet to come that that that's based on an assumption that there is a budget for this that's correct and there is the president's fiscal year eleven budget includes all of the resources for that do we have a well that's a proposed budget it is a proposed budget yes so we're still in the saying and i hope that we all remember we're still operating with a proposed budget from the executive branch so all of this is still up in the it almost has appears to somebody who would be a skeptic that why would the federal government be backing off on this sensor when we're talking about the potential climate change whatever cause i think we all agree the greatest skepticism is coming from those who are saying that the impact of the the solar flares in the solar impact on the temperatures is grossly underestimated by models were operating off that to retreat from having those sensors would almost lee some of my colleagues including my my surfing buddy to the right here  to claim that there might be some cynical conspiracy to make sure those that data is not collected because it may show that the modeling have grossly underestimated the effect of solar radiation what would you say to my colleague  about that kind of perception i would like to assure you in the committee that we've not backed off from flying the sensor we will fly this sensor in this time frame the announcement that we made to fly in n p p like boss which is a smaller boss is driven by our need to avoid a gap in this afternoon or it represents the least the lowest technicals and schedule solution for us so we're still working on our exact plans for flying these three sensors that do not fit on that bus but you should not doubt our commitment to ensuring those will be flown now look i will be very frank with you is that the american people watch what's going on in washington and what's going on with the federal government there's a lot of people making a lot of promises that affect average americans personal lives their health their lifestyle their prosperity and a lot of people in of this city is telling the american people trust us we can get this done trust us we can do the job properly when we see when the american people see the handling of this proposal where you've got you know multiple jurisdictions and what looks like an absolute shambles of a strategy and implementation i mean you understand why people really do get concerned when washington expands its footprint say we're to manage personal lives of people better and don't worry about it and they sit there and say look you know you've got you've got groups like the federal government for a decade trying to do like tronic medical records and no closer now than they were ten years ago or the fact that we're talking about our satellites and look what you guys did with that you expect me to trust you with my family suture how do we tell the american people that look we can learn from our mistakes and we can move forward how can we say  that don't use this as an example of how federal government screws up what what can i tell my constituents out of this experience i think that restructure the n pose program does three things for us one is it really clarifies the acquisition responsibilities number two it allowed us to propose a budget to the congress that we think is adequate to cover what's here and the third is that allows us to align with a proven acquisition center that can bring the government expertise to bear for the oversight of this as part of that last part of it i'd like to highlight to this committee that no and nasa will use independent review team so over and above what g a o might do in this program we will use independent review teams to review our plans assess our progress we've been doing that with the goes our program will be doing that with j p s s as we move forward so we're not just allowing it to ourselves in our own oversight but we're we're seeking independent review as well thank you mr obama's organize five minutes i'd like to think my colleague for asking the questions in my name of course first of and poses going for seven billion dollars in two thousand and two to fifteen billion dollars think what could we have done with all of that extra money that brian was talking about and i guess we could have given it to goldman sachs coalitions and things like that so there's been a lot of money wasted here in washington d c a lot of money over the last couple years and i would hope that this was a limit for this way this was a try they were trying to accomplish something and they did not succeed in accomplishing what they set out to do and i think that is less of a waste than some of the money that we spent in the last eighteen months to in the name of stimulus that has gone in the pockets of wheeler dealers on wall street except for except for us but back to this when we're talking about why this failed our  how we did couldn't reach the goal that we had in mind one of those things is one of those goals the technology we needed to make the climate determinations there is a difference between climate and weather and the technology for this project between determining what weather is going to be and the whole idea of climate research was the technology needed for this climate research which i consider to be very very questionable goal in the first place was that part of the failure that we have  here no sir i don't think it was because the the there's a mission flying today that we launched several years ago called aqua that is flying sensors that are if you will the predecessors of the sensors that were selected for and pose and they're doing climate and weather measurements although it's a research mission so it's not tied into the operational stream so the technology and the for accompli and pose was going to do has been demonstrated it is flying one of those sensors has been flying for over ten years now but it was so that we're so weak that it would not be accurate to say that climate change which some of us believe is not manmade and frankly it's a phony issue but that commitment to studying that and the technology needed to do that study was not part of the reason why we went from seven to fifteen billion and have not been able to accomplish that mission i would not say that the technology was no anyone else comment on that ok and what  how much was this ok so what do we say is this is the cause that this debacle that we say it was was there in fact that were technology that we couldn't develop did we have a problem with problems here was it the launch systems that we know there was some problem here with with launch which launched systems to be able to do this or is this just a lack of when the beginning sounded like we just we had too much confidence that various bureaucracies could work together so what was the main driver of this  i'll take a cut at that and bite my colleagues or two to chime in here that i think is this committee heard last year when they did a hearing on this and heard from tom young the independent review team chair he highlighted several things one is the overall management structure and the because of the agency's missions responsibilities there and all the difficulty in being able to provide adequate oversight he also highlighted to this committee that we were developing this satellite system in a way that neither no one nasa or d o d would develop one on their own and and that in fact met that we weren't using a proven government acquisition center so we weren't a bailing ourselves of talent that we had within the federal government to provide or order so he wasn't right i mean it wasn't because it hadn't done this type of thing before and it wasn't but it wasn't the caused some problems with some of the overruns that you mentioned in with j p s s one the first no satellite that's still not out of the woods but i would directly answer your question say that every level was at fault then post there was issues with executive level oversight with the tri agency overseeing it there were issues with program management managing the program and there were issues with contractor and subcontractor oversight and performance so there was almost every layer you look at there were issues when you look back over the years with what went wrong we wish all of you success and trying to put this back together again so that that fifteen billion dollars that's been invested by the taxpayers are just going to waste so we can thank you very much for focusing on this and being very frank with us today and we will be following this project and get it done so that we can get we can salvage something out of this effort that's of value to the american people thank you very much mr  since being the one that was the most difficult is that for climate research or was that for weather forecasting i think when you look at viewers it's probably a combination of a number of things and clearly viewers on n p p the demonstration satellite that's going up but it's also being built for the first know a satellite in our report being released today we do mention that that satellite right now is high risk for that first know a satellite will that affect a launch date for the two new programs the president's fiscal year eleven budget is critical for a spin able to move forward with the j p s s program so in the event of a continuing resolution i believe we work through the administration with congress to see what our options are to be able to move forward here we're quite sensitive to the fact that this is proposed as a new program in the two thousand and eleven budget in congress hasn't made a that we get those funds to begin the deed of u s s program so we will be doing a centrally mirroring what no one does in the event of a continuing resolution which is to work through that ministration and secure the release of funds that are appropriate and i like th the two of you agree with each other that's  developing such a catalogue of the agencies got together and identified that the seven through it through looking through the lens of environmental policy requirements what are the major observations that are needed to address those policy issues and so we have a cat we we have at what is close to a catalog of needs what we don't have is the articulation of that catalog against a set of priorities and budgets and that's the next  see understand that the new j p s as program will be run out of the goddard space flight center how many positions both nasa and contractor staff do you expect let me take it backwards if you might one of the reasons that time young suggested that the program be put in acquisition center isn't because of the number of people that are on the project but because of the number of people that can support the project at goddard or at the air force's s m c we're procuring or building lots of satellites and lots of sensors and all of that technical capability with our engineering directorates and safety mission assurance directorates and and science organizations in the case of goddard come to bear to help that organization go often and achieve its goals by having the ability to to to look across many projects that are some ahead of where you're at some behind where you're at some using the same contractors you can identify issues that that an individual project that's isolated as the i p o was  wouldn't see so the fact that it's at the goddard space flight center is probably the most critical element of the program because you bring all those resources to bear to help the project succeed as far as the size of the project it would be about the size of the i p l about one hundred or so civil servants and contractors working it and the staffing is going to come from very experienced people as i mentioned in my opening statement we're bringing some of the best people from our solar dynamics observatory has built a number of satellites and will be bringing in people of that caliber or have already brought people of that caliber from nasa and know and i p o in to go off and manage this program and oversee it chairman just for the record i know people in this committee have chuckled about the whole concept but i think that we really understand how important this aspect is of the part of the suspended particulates and its effects and the ozone issue because there has been legitimate concerns raised about people considering is global dimming a factor we need to consider not and the arguments gone back and forth but just they articulate the how important this could be if global dimming is a significant issue as some have said we have to totally reverse our policies on implementation of climate change legislation because rather than looking at things like coal which should be the first operations i know that makes us the first operation shut down there may be a whole argument to reverse that decision and have it as the last c o emissions shut down because there may be major short term benefits there that helps would help to mitigate i just want to make sure the good science on this is out there and this sensing could be a critical component i just hope we keep our minds open as we develop these strategies my biggest concern i've seen as too many people are making assumptions based on one thousand nine hundred seventy concepts when there's a whole lot of new data and technology out there and this data may be critical of getting those of us in washington to rethink our entire implementation strategy and actually reversing our implementation strategies based on new data so i'm glad to hear that i think it's critical at least answer some questions and make sure reassure us that our assumptions may be making too can you to be followed up rather than have to be  budget congress has to be notified twenty five percent has to be reauthorized so how do you think this affects the  and i'm not an expert on the non mccurdy law but but i think that the restructuring that we have proposed is not over those limits and i think that the as we move forward with the d o d portion of this of this program we will have a better sense of how what the costs are going for if it does go over our congress can be informed about this and or from our calculus right now the restructuring does not constitute a breach under the none mccurdy statute nor would although our estimates are not final with respect to the funding pro file associated with the defense weather satellite system we are working within the funds that we had previously planned to use for our share of and pows so we believe that the d w s s as it moves forward would not cross any of the breech thresholds but if if for some reason there were a breach by definition we would do the necessary reporting and subsequent work for recertification does this mark a baseline there will be a new acquisition strategy for the d w s s and there will be a new acquisition program baseline that the air force will bring forward to zero s t as we as part of the definition of the new program the restructured d