well the play committee meeting of february fifth two thousand and fifteen please come back to order and members the reason i say that that we are reconvening a member meeting that started on february fifth two thousand and fifteen  mr goodman is on his way in and mr white at this time is excused also with us today by the way can we have everybody turn off your cell phones and other noisemaking devices so we can get through this without interruption we will have with us today michelle mcclain deputy planning director good morning good morning and terry jorgensen senior planner for all right we have committee analyst jordan alina good morning and me secretary terry pauline martens good morning there is no testimony today we are reconvening a recessed meeting however we do have some folks on the lanai we may have some folks on when i of ailill for resource if we have questions of them they will let us know i just want to manning the phone and watching these proceedings right now is denise fernandez from when i good morning  members were back on page four actually let me go through something first we've gotten some testimony and you may or may not have had your staff printed out but it's been put on the computer and it's on online for you to see but there's been some concerns about the process and i just want to remind folks those especially who might be watching and the members that see which is the community plan advisory committee and the l p c which is the lanai planning committee are both advisory to the planning department to come up with a community plan for the most part the planning department is the one that's responsible for coming up with this plan with the advice from the community to those two community groups if members who were here i guess everybody in the room today at least what was here for the maui i don't plan you know that what was submitted finally from the last from the general from the maui planning commission was still re ed and a lot a lot of changes were made to the maui island plan even after it came out of the two community groups i do want to say from the planning department this is one of the cleanest points we've seen come through there's not a whole lot of changes although the ones that are there are certainly controversial but the planning department went through and honored what was given to them from the which is land use we went through all the maps we were going to come back to i believe a couple of maps and we'll get that when we get into that section but right now we're into issues  strategies and they're on page nine dash nine there are no comments from the department members do you have any comments on nine dash  i i have a comment on strategy number three it says work with landowners to review mary county coach chapter nineteen point seven zero nineteen point seven zero one one i project districts and subsequent ordinances to determine if actions are needed to meet required agreements and conditions of approval i'm just pointing that out to the members of the committee and in the viewing audience that it was mentioned in testimony on one i e that there are some agreements that were made  agreements i'm sure and he's keeping an eye on in his communities keeping an eye on those cute agreements but the department is is also responsible for that so that strategy is going to come up heavily when we look at a couple those things on the map there so i want to everybody to keep that strategy in mind and also issue one strategy one on there to is conduct a comprehensive review of interim zone lands to rezone appropriately in order to implement the updated community planned land use designations that's been a source sore spot all over this county interim zoning and so hopefully planning to come up with the proper  notices and whatnot and letting bring in the land use the zoning changes here we have had a couple issues that times when people were not fully aware that their land use has had been changed so i just want to make sure we get as much notice as possible in this day and age although it's really hard we have all this stuff and still people said never saw so i'm sure the department will do the best they can so without any objection or any other comment on page nine dash nine mr full comma i wanted to ask the department and your issue for you know we've got that  religion excuse me mr obama can use your microphone a little bit and thanks and i helped develop that village makes use ordinance and what that's so we've got different types of categories that are in the code that addresses this makes use thank you mr comma there is there are some very good mixed use development components in the code relating to a certain project districts but as a freestanding  oning district they tend to be residential maybe allowing a little bit of business or business allowing a little bit of residential above the business use but one that is truly  mixed where you can have you know you'd have let's say a block that has that zoning and you could have a home on one lot of business on a nother lot intersperse like that the code doesn't currently have that kind of flexibility  it's that the mixed use is have to be combined in the same structure in the existing zoning code the exception might be in some of the project districts but for there to be one zoning  one zoning chapter that has that flexibility the way that a form based code would have i thought religion makes use pretty flexible there isn't there isn't a zoning code called village mix use there are sections in project district ordinances that are village mckew so project districts effectively have the mixed use sounding but for a property owner to say i want village makes you soon for my property that doesn't that's maybe that's a type of mixed use district it may not go as far as obviously the department's thinking as is what would be required for these and i districts but that's as far as my memory i think that's the most recent  mixed use type zoning that that there is that was implemented as i understand it based on based on the requirement in the community plants i think in who in certain areas to have service business residential they actually community planned areas s p r and there was adoption in chapter one thousand point one one of a zoning code called service business residential no if oriented communities so that being said the next page is first first thing that the department is suggesting and that is  page nine ten line thirty four to forty two delete policy seven and let me just read this because i do have plenty of questions on this one the deletion was discourage approvals especially use permits in state out cultural and rural districts unless they one accommodate public cause a public facility uses such as utility installations landfill and wastewater treatment plants whose location is determined by technical considerations to support agricultural uses three are required for the use or distribution of economic resources and not otherwise adversely affecting the environment or surrounding agriculture uses or for allow very low impact accommodations i e non permanent structures or tend to support small scale equal cultural or adventure tourism department can you let us know why you decided to pull that out this is language that has been in a number of the community plans in existing community plans and the department felt that the now we're talking about state special use permits that get approved by planning commissions there are criteria in state law for the review and consideration of those permits and by having this language it really narrows down a great area the hurry that's already provided in state law and in some cases can really but the department and the commissions in a situation where there might be a proposed use that they would like to approve  but might not be consistent with this language so rather than it being this broad statement in the community plans but those decisions happen at the planning commission level when permits come forward on that i haven't seen a problem in thirty is this on our plans to have a problem keeping it in because that language has been in prior community plan is that what this language as suggested by the department any comments from any of the members any suggestions mr holcombe a has no problem with leaving it in case we have consensus to leave it in yes ok thank you all right next page if you go down to page nine and dash eleven line seventeen wants to add a policy that the department wants to add a policy that says support adjustments to manelli and coeli project district zoning standards and development standards to facilitate project build out department sun if you look depends on where you're following if you're following that the list of changes it's in you it's page nine dash eleven line seventeen if you're looking in the book it's dash eleven and it's up there asking to add it at the bottom of page nine dash eleven so it would be policy number twelve since we didn't take out seven and the reason for that is because on the action table there is currently that statement is listed as an action and we're proposing that it be moved to a policy instead of an action  because there isn't a lead county agency for that for that item ok so you ok that makes sense comments we have consensus to leave that in what support was for other things we were looking that's the agencies on it would you still see it in the same way mr harper support mr chair i think this may be a bit different because when you're talking about adjusting project to strict zoning standards that is an item that's within the purview of the county versus a couple of the other issues that we discussed were really state functions in this case project district zoning standards could be changed they'd have to be changed by the council of course but they would perhaps have to go through the planning commission could be initiated by the planning director or the council and so it could come from a variety of areas  but in general i would see this as a county function so i don't think that the language supports necessarily a problem unless of course the council does not believe that this is a policy that it would like to have listed if it believes that  those project district standards should not be adjusted but as far as the language support i don't think it necessarily would have the problem that potentially the language dealing with state functions would be to somehow may be implying again the implication is not that big of a deal because the council would still need to approve funding for anything but if the concern in those cases was that previous state functions could be transferred to the county and increase funding i wouldn't see that as a problem here because zoning standards are are something that are within the purview and frankly the exclusive jurisdiction of the council for thinking about state land use commission standards that's different but the specifically says project district zoning standards i guess in development standards but that's generally dealing with with the county zoning level rather than the stateliness commission level  chairman thank you i members on page nine dash twelve i do number nine in the table nine point four item number nine point zero three was removed that's the one that  that you just talked about we just added in to the policy so without any objection we can take the planning commission's planning i'm sorry the planning department's suggestion to delete  that action and just to read it that was the one that says work with landowners and community stakeholders to make necessary just missed to project district zoning and development standards to facilitate a project build out so that's exactly question nine zero three that was moved to the policy relates to facilitating project build out and nine zero nine relates to  if there are outstanding conditions of zoning or other requirements that haven't been fulfilled so they do both relate to the project districts and the progress of their development one seeks to see that those developments get built out as has approved and the other wants to ensure that zoning conditions of  i think is to correct that opening the ordinance i mean i'm trying to figure out what this really means  subsequent ordinances to determine if actions are needed to meet requirements and that the lead county agency is the planning department and partners who are when i the way i see that at least the way i interpret that mr okama is that the department will work with the land orders to see if they're meeting the requirements of one thousand seven zero one seven one and if they aren't in or if there's other action needed that they will forward that to the council not so much as making anything they just need to make sure that the requirements are being met and if not how can they be met that's the way i would read it ok then we should clear that i think any resident on the island can understand that compliance for all approval conditions so we want change that will get work with landowners to review project right thing is yet fit to comply with the conditions of a pool i think this one this one is saying if there are more changes to the ordinance needed to in order to comply i don't know that this is saying that you and i will agree to it prior to approval of the zoning it should have objected then and of course this is not the empty beat that agreed to the conditions made runs with the land and they've agreed to fulfill whatever runs with the land my thing is we've already the counties agreement was would then let owner buy your runs with the land so he still for me is an outstanding issue of compliance and i don't care who owns it they have to fulfill conditions of approval period right i want to know when and how they're going to do it community wants to know when and how it's going to be done because many things that we're going to do is part of an integrated approach on the eye on it we're not going to build three housing projects one time when we could maybe have difficulty just doing a one you know it's part of a coordinated effort to get the alley where we want to be in service is employment education reasonable health care for its population of three thousand maybe three six but we won't be i mean a clinic we're not going to be a why this why bring it up cherry i greet and i think and it might be just in the way i interpret things but i think that is there but we can add something about compliance if you have if you have suggested wording we can come back to that maybe during the break you can come up back to some wording for that thank you chairman ok so we're going to see about  i can make a comment on your earlier in this chapter the committee also discussed similar language where my notes on page line are scuse me page from the previous meeting said that staff would revise that language to really make it clear that zoning conditions have to be complied with and that only council can change zoning conditions and that zoning conditions are of community plan language so i think whatever revisions are made in the action table would be consistent with that i think that's all getting to the same point  five it looks like they're pulling out permit if the zoning ordinance were if the open space zoning district in the park zoning districts were amended to allow those uses those would apply county wide that could have a pretty broad impact  there isn't that much open space zoning in the county or on the night and park zoning is also pretty specific some of those uses are permitted in the park districts and some of those uses are permitted with different levels of permits in the park districts on the night he eco cultural adventure tourism would most likely occur in the ag district and the ag zoning district already allows certain types of open land recreation with a special use permit so we just felt that that language was duplicative and also might be a little broad and members i had a a question as to why that was being pulled out so that that makes a little bit more sense but i understand what what the community is looking for the how can we is there a way to balance out what the community is looking for with what we have in our current situation the planning department could review the open space and park districts to determine if provisions should be made to permit such activities i just don't know that we want to go so far to say amend because that might not be ok might not be needed or it might not be recommended correctly so members if we change that instead of deleting that in its entirety and i think that the need for amendments to permit low impact and then leave the rest of that language in there so that when you're mentioning mr mclean we're pretty comfortable taking it out but if you want to leave if you do want to leave  amendments are needed and then to permit low impact become nine point zero four actually in the one above is going to become nine point zero three yeah but yes in the in the the book itself yes there are two point nine point zero four ok down to nine point zero eight which is nine point zero eight in the book in your your plan says revise guidelines and standards for provisions and phasing of public facilities and services for new development and that has been crossed out department comments as to why that was well the language says to revise guidelines and standards and it's not clear to us that we actually have existing guidelines and standards so to revise something that we don't  and it just it really isn't clear what the objective of that action  is i'm not sure what the intent of it is is it to ensure that infrastructure is in place before concurrent with new development coming online that that's typically established during the during the enti process so there aren't guidelines or standards for it it's part of the process already mr gunson made comment on to i mean how how that was put in or  planning commission looking to see whether that's occurring whether that correctly phased and well i know that in my committee we have an item that talks about the guidelines  standards at least development guidelines and standards is that what these are talking about as well or is this a separate issue because i'm i'm not sure what phasing of public facilities and services for new development needs and members we do have some folks who were involved in either the one eye planning commission or the sea pack available for us as a resource if anybody has a question as to why that was put in there be happy to call on them denise anybody over there willing to come up and help us determine why that was put in their own way and what they kind of mean by phasing of public facilities and services for new development the question is a number nine point zero weight it says revise guidelines and standards for provision and phasing of public facilities and services for new development and the concern was what what does that mean to the folks that put it in there because the department is unsure of what it means and i think the committee is a bit unsure of what that means as well so we would like some clarification on that the gardens in standards the architects made extra attempts in working with the senior community asking general residents of what they would like to see and how they would like to have their new senior center design  there was designed to fit you look at the multi million dollar police facility we have on the island it was designed to try and fit into the like a community so the county has definitely recent projects we can show where we've tried to build something that complements the character of the island and i think that the some of things i believe the community wants to see continue by far is the in for a new development that will be a budget very thing i would believe that the first things we would look at if anything is first responders police protection fire protecti the billet of us providing clean safe drinking water ability to take care of our solid in sewer wace those are the kind of things i think that if anything would be part of the to trying to make sure it fits within the character of let me thank you kate members any comments on that in the with the recommendation is to remove it and i'm inclined to go along with that because as mr hope comma says there's a lot of stuff that yes mr okama and also the committee will have an opportunity when we start working on the business country town guidelines and standard right that will also assist the departments in helping us maintain the character that wants to preserve and exactly right so many without any objection we will remove that as recommended ok consensus i  chapter ten now moving right along if you take a look at chapter ten it's about urban design and thankfully there's not a lot of changes in the first there's no changes at all in the first three four pages but i wanted to highlight and see if highlight what we're talking about in chapter ten and then we'll have the the department kind of go through it quick before we  go through their exit changes but essentially an important paragraph on page ten dash one under existing conditions it says in two thousand and nine the national trust for start preservation included law not a city  its list of the top ten most endangered historic sites in the united states most of the nice city original structures are still standing however in recent years some buildings both commercial and residential have been demolished and replaced with new construction also the talks about trees in it saying that the could pine cook i've been pines that were planted throughout the night you city are now mature and some are reaching the end of their lifespan some trees will have to be cut down and replaced as they age get diseased and potentially cause property damage that is one of the biggest bases for the following you know for this whole chapter so department i just wanted to highlight that to the members before we go much further department can you tell us a little bit about the philosophy behind this whole chapter and the issues and what not thank you this is  this chapter and along with the cultural archaeological resource chapter or two that were very important to the community they want to see the historical character of  i city to be preserved or restored as much as possible and and have that same character mirrored in the expansion of the lanai city area the one thing that was added between the sea pact draft going on to the planning commission draft was the urban and rural design principles that are  dash to intend three and those are to guide future growth and to get to retain the historical character and to keep a component of that is that the street is in a grid pattern and very walkable and smaller in scale and they were interested in retaining that if as the city or new areas are developed and so it also it provides for the connection between the different areas so that the community has expressed that right now they're they're very one group and so they wanted to make sure that there was connection between any expanded areas in the existing community that you take a look at those and a agree of those this is what the both the c pac and allied planning commission suggested the plan department agrees and i see no real reason to question the name of that but if you have any questions or concerns with that now's the time to bring them up if not we will continue on chairman m pretty accurately present the condition of many of our trees that were planted during the gay family era during the wrenching days when we had people like james monr corrugated roof i cannot have that happening or even a chance happening to a resident and yet we have an obvious refuses to recognize a situation that continually tells us don't cut a only thank him ok and i seem to recall looking at i think it was the council agenda that there is an item i think that you submitted regarding the county arborist that will be receiving at the next council meeting i think so point taken members all the way down if you have no questions or comments on the issues and strategies because there is agreement between the planning committee and the c pac and the planning department we can go all the way to attend five where there first is some suggested changes the first suggested changes on page ten days five line regards to the demolition by neglect type term which i understand it's sort of the same principle you know if it's creates a hazard and a danger then you're going to want to remove it but this is also a key point that's  making the area one of the most endangered historic sites so how i'm just trying to glance through issues and strategies on how that can be addressed or how would that be sort of looked at i mean because that is the charm of the area but i guess throughout time plantations are gone the homes are being you know inhabited in there obviously at the point they are so zeroes summary in here worse strategy is being looked at to implement in order to protect that type of environment thank you for the question you know there are a couple of strategies that relate to that strategy one and two ways to be that but i think you and it same to preserve but i mean if are there at the point of demolition by neglect the point where which means it is there is no chance of restoration  saving per se of the structure itself then are we to create standards that rebuild something very similar in nature you know the  is your policy decision as the policy makers it's important to consider that when we think of the you know the recent cases of the demolition  those were properties formerly owned by castle and cook and then transferred over to pull and i if you were to put in language like that that would apply to to any property not just ones owned by police and i even though there are the vast majority landowner that would also apply to a private landowner to a smaller landowner so whatever guidelines and and standards are restrictions who you want to propose that would be universal any building that's fifty years old or older does have to get reviewed by the cultural resources commission before a building permit or a demolition permit can be issued some of this was talked about also in the cultural and historic resources chapter and the c c has been very very strict with what they will allow to be demolished they really don't like to see demolition in the rare occasions where they have recommended approval of a demolition permit they've required the highest level of mitigation possible which does still allow the structure to be demolished but it requires very detailed surveying and drawings so that if that structure were to be recreated you could recreate it exactly as it was so that information is obtained you know photographs are taken architectural drawings are made so that the structure could be completely replicated if someone chooses to do that ok thank you very much and as we just stated that urge shared would that help the city become less endangered i guess of pete you know losing its historic designation of sorts or is that at least pretty you know i mean protect that doesn't mean somehow i don't know that and then replicating structures would protect would have that protection i think maintaining an existing existing is a much greater protection ok thank you department chair thank you members back to page ten dash five strategy five the old language says develop a management and replanting plan for the cook island pines throughout the city explore options for appropriate alternative tree species depending on location and site cook pines could be we planted if appropriate for that location or native or non invasive species could be used instead of develop the department says work with other agencies and others to prepare a management and we we planting plant plan i think that's  a little bit better because and in court incorporates more folks than just the department so i seem to think that that one is a better use of the language in the objection so that ok so with consensus we'll keep that the suggested changes night strategy number six it says develop a street tree planting plan for existing areas a new development distribute guidance documents for homeowners and land owners to address both new and existing landscapes that would promote the use of noninvasive drought tolerant and climate climatic zone native plants wherever possible department is suggesting new language or tweaking it a bit saying support the development of a street planned street tree plant plan for existing areas and new development encourage the use of not invasive drought tolerant and climatic zoned native plants wherever possible they do deleted distribute guidance documents for homeowners and landowners to address both new and existing landscapes that would promote the use of so department any insight on as to why getting rid of the distribute the guidance document scaping in the different climate zones so it was really just a point of like proactively distributing it it does happen during the entire process for new development that does happen already three trees our subdivision requirements and so those can be enforced through d s a through the subdivision ordinance well it's been my experience of noticing when we plant trees that people feel it's a rubbish maker you for can use that phrase after a while those trees disappear all over this island this county so maybe one is only if there are people who understand what responsibilities they may or may not have regarding those trees and other things i would think for some it's just a painting a but regarding the tree is planted in the first place right there are requirements for street trees and typically the right of way is dedicated to the county seven those do become a county responsibility to maintain and replace if the tree is diseased or needs to be removed also in the subdivision process there is a ratio of trees per lot that have to be planted and so that it then that does become the homeowners those trees yeah i for me it's more about helping to give good information to our residents or property owners on some of the responsibilities that the cool places on them that they may not be aware of that kind of my direction i'm kind of leaning to is leaving in the distribute guidance document for homeowners and landowners is there a lie just to issue to them is that why that might have been well the department of water supply has information on landscaping but in terms of spelling out what tree requirements are and whose responsibility maintenance is i don't think one document exists with all that information in it so you know i don't i don't know who would be responsible for putting that together and then sending it out ok i know that there are some in the actions and goals that there's a little discussion on that so at this point members any  comment on whether or not to accept the planning department's suggested changes  the chair has a little bit of concern on taking out the distribute guidance document but it's up to the will of the committee mr okama any  comment i can support the department's new lng report was laying it regarding support the development chairman but i think it's important that we continue our efforts to see you want to leave in the language by distribute guidance document so maybe you know i'm thinking that's part of our responsibilities to keep our residents informed really ok members and you know it's maybe a one time expense remember that mr had this would be an expense that when it comes budget time so we have to remember that but i think it's important that the homeowners know so i'm sick the chairs recommendation on this one is to leave in the distribute guidance document all that language but also change the language or says support the development of a street tree planting plan any objections to that ok  you get that mister thank you ok we want to we can take a break here pretty soon ten dash six policy number five instead of ensure that there is community engagement and input to any new development the department says encourage community manager engagement and input to any new development including expansion plans for the night you city i understand probably where you're going with that department mr okama any comments i would just make it ensured development but both for the island and i don't have a need to highlight specifically  and encourages as opposed to ensure and i can see that if for whatever reason the community doesn't want to come out for that one which i doubt that would ever happen unless ninety but if the community sides not to come out then you can't ensure that you can't drag them out if they don't want to come out but that's why encourage is better than ensure i'm sure mr hopper would be more comfortable with that line right so members this suggestion is to say encourage community engagement and input to any new development period  consensus next one number six support the coronation of major development projects in one eye city to maximize efficiency provide infrastructure and public amenities and enhance the overall character of the town as opposed to what it used to say coordinate the development of major projects mr okama any comments on the suggested changes like i certainly can see that supporting the coordination but instead of doing the actual coordination because that's not really the function of the planning department i can support it i would like it stronger but you know i understand the planning document what its intent is so i can support the recommendation chair members i would just say that whatever it should be more than just a  resources for potentially fifty lots x miles away just drag the infrastructure those are the kind of things that needs to be part of this discussion and do the coordination of services amenities infrastructure well i'm damned thing that and maybe planning correct me if i'm wrong that this one is basically saying look we've got the city so we're going to deal with the infrastructure there in thing outside of the city maybe up to the the developer to to deal with the infrastructure because i'm sure that some at least speaking from budgetary wise i'm sure that the members of this can committee are not willing to provide a lot of infrastructure for something so remote and i think this one is just talking about the town is that correct  department it sounds like the overall intent of that item was relating to the overall character of the town and mary just noted that some of the broader infrastructure coordination we just discussed in chapter nine project yeah it looks like at least according to what is on the plan and certainly to change that plan has to come through council and planning commission it's the essentially the expansion city the university area essentially that's those two big areas and that's seems to be it i mean if it's not on the plan when we pass this it has to go through a community plan and land use patterns in the lanai city are consistent and compatible with the historic design character of the night you city departments recommended removing that i could use a an explanation on that one and that policy is also in covered by policy number one and number three and so we felt that it was just redone and that there were enough policies that covered makes sense and he i'm fine with it ok members any comments consensus on removing that page six line forty seven forty eight they wanted to add a policy says continue assisting property owners to preserve and rehabilitate historic buildings in the business country town i'm assuming district you want to add that word in  their department and mr gibbs you have to identify yourself every time so don't worry about it thank you this is to get at the question that was raised earlier about what can be done to  help restore and preserve the historic buildings so this is just i think that that idea that was in the strategy ok members any concern about adding met if i don't hear any objection have worked with the property owners in the past on going through the c h p process when it is an older building even with renovation  she can effectively pre review things and then pass a recommendations on to seach p d in honolulu and really expedite the process that's great for permitting and also in the event depending on the project she has also assisted landowners i'm not sure if she's had a project on the night yet but certainly on maui with historic preservation tax credits if i may chair mary and i were just checking on adding that history and also there was discussion about preservation outside of that area was necessary as well so that the entire town was looked at in terms of its historic character make it more than the b c the district chairman i think the community should have the ability to understand if their property does get designated what the means to them what they approved was more the need to do anything to their structure always change that at a future time if it if there is seems to be an issue well i mean we're going to let the community continues to give to somebody in x and the committee goes back up as well as the public hearing by council so yes  give us comment on this whether they're looking at her for the whole community or just a component of the city well keep in mind mr obama that this was an addition by the department this was not recommended by either the that makes sense so they did talk about it in the p c t only yes ok ok so right now mr okama their language is continue assisting property owners to be very preserve and rehabilitate historic buildings in the b c t district thank you jim ok members  we're on one last page of chapter ten however this may require some discussion so i think what we'll do is we'll do our morning break and if you could be back here at ten thirty we can  with through the next couple of chapters and be ready to do some more after lunch so please be back here by ten thirty and we will continue on this meeting is now in recess with the planning committee meeting of february fifth please come back to order all right and yes just for any viewing public who has just tuned in i do know that it is february twelfth this is the resumption of a meeting from way back on february fifth all right members were on page ten dash seven and were which is the actions and goals or the actions sorry the department has suggested to removing to remove action ten point zero one and essentially that's what we just discuss they added as a policy on page ten dash six policy the one that they wanted to add so i can see why they needed to remove that any concerns or objections to that  that is almost the same as what we had it in the policy i do notice that it says implement regulatory and financial mechanisms we typically as a council don't do that except for potentially on a case by case basis so i'm fine with removing that completely but i just want to read that for the public right ten point zero six so as development adopted by ordinance specific rural and small town street design standards that would permit context sensitive street resign and maintenance of the rural  streetscapes without curbs gutters and overhead utilities as found in when the city incorporate the completed design standards into the community plan as append as an appendix and deep department of public works was the one yes this action was discussed extensively with the department of public works as part of complete streets meetings and it has been covered in chapter seven on page seven point seven dash sixteen to seven eighteen that there is discussion of complete streets and and then within that chapter the  action and so we felt that it was redundant to put it in here the question i have on complete streets but maybe we should have should have had public works up here but i believe  certainly don't have curbs gutters and potentially overhead utilities especially and as as it is found in the city my question would be would complete streets make that more of a urban and urban setting as opposed to the rural setting that they're specifically stating here no gutters no curbs and potentially no overhead lines i know there are some overhead lines but in the discussions with public works and i was participating in those but i did talk with kathleen current a lot about what was occurring and there were they were creating a separate section for the night to not have the the curb and gutter with the street so complete streets looking at  where you have multiple use so you can have where they're encouraging pedestrians and and and by travel as well as use of a street by a car so it doesn't necessarily have to and and so it would necessitate having different design standards for lanai city so my understanding is that there is going to be in the new  those ordinances and those guidelines are developed and set aside for alumni that would meet that criteria then yes that's correct so we wouldn't hurt to have that in there and i don't that's pes goes beyond the scope of this this is focused mostly on the nice city right but isn't that where they want to know curbs gutters i don't think there are mr obama are there is an issue for the county is sheet floor issues during major rain without a gutter and drainage appropriate drainage systems so part of the condition i think that the previous land owner already complied with which was the d j o when i city drainage master plan to have that be submitted to public works projects issues of flooding in in drainage d d in the complete streets and public works is making a carving out some exemptions or exceptions for the city if if we take this out of here are we losing something in miss mclean is right this is urban design but you know i just for the life of me can't see nice city being earth even though it is i'm sure it's designated urban et c we want to keep it as i'm assuming the the citizens want to keep it as rural as possible why would my block we consider a rule then two streets don't he's the urban core i mean we all look alike will get that opportunity as we formulate and write our own standard i think i write in the country town rights ordinance that is and we can get specific we can address road wits and what not and that's why for one night because all right so we're going to remove ten point zero six ten point zero seven says develop street tree planning plan use using a diversity of appropriate street tree species for existing areas and new development i believe we put that back in on page ten dash five strategy six  so i'm assuming that that because that's in the strategy we don't actually if it's in a strategy we usually have an action to that right mr jorgensen correct there's usually either a policy or an action to support the strategies and there's a policy number seven which is encourage the planning of suitable street tree species in new an existing areas and encourage the replacement of cook island pines if appropriate ok so then it's ok to come out of that mr common sense trees or your friend over there and whe any comments you're ok with taking that out there because it is mentioned in a policy current action is develop standards for street lighting that mandate dark sky shielding of lamps in order to minimize light pollution and glare explore options for early d lighting to save energy and provide more point light point like light source the department has requested to strike develop standards for street lighting that maintain mandate dark sky shielding of lamps in order to minimize light pollution and glare and i can see why they've done that because we already have an ordinance that requires that and just for as an aside that ordinance was done in two thousand and six or two thousand and seven i believe and  this year it is coming there's a grace period for everybody to get their lighting up to code this year that grace period ends so that's just an aside  sky and i'm fine with leaving explore options for l b lighting to save energy and provide a more point like light source provided of course it meets code which we're having an issue in ms cochran's committee in getting that finalized i believe i mean just there yeah so members with without objection i know in the list of changes that were made it says delete entire action ten point zero nine but in there their track changes addition they did not delete the explore options for early the lighting to save energy and provide more point like light source so i'm willing to go with the recommendations on that page department are you aware of the differences and what you've given us the one one i  list of changes that you made that i've been talking i says delete ten point zero nine altogether but in the actual track changes it's it leaves in that last sentence and i'm willing to go with that recommendation of leaving in that last sentence that lessons can be support thought sions or something to that effect because mr corey ashy did an outstanding job and took us all out there and we looked at all the different colors or renditions and you know all that technical stuff and i'm still yet to have some decisions in support and what do we want what can we use that's going to be you know happy that i was going to be happy with and we haven't found that yet but hopefully this new term more because as i've just stated we've done a lot of research and looked at the options that are out there as of now perhaps there's more that have come to the table but as for this county mr so that would be to replace explore with select options for implementing the lighting  so we will change that there is consensus that ok that's that's it for chapter ten we're on to eleven which is housing and member there's a lot of narrative and charts and what not let's have the department talk about it a little bit and then let us know what the issues were with that  thank you chair jen maiden from the planning department is going to present the house scene chapter as well as chapter twelve and thirteen ok what some of the issues were so chapter eleven is housing and focuses primarily on housing supply and affordability in the background and the issues and strategy sections  on page eleven dash two there are two charts that compare both rent and home ownership affordability based on it as defined by hud both th deepak and the planning commission really stressed the importance and the need for workforce housing as well as senior housing and we have touched a number of times on the senior housing that's proposed in the malka that was discussed quite a bit inland used as well as housing as far as any differences in this housing chapter from c pac to the planning commission there are no significant differences they both just very much stress the importance and the need for a workforce housing and senior housing members page eleven one in eleven two are in agreement that the department is in agreement with the c pac and the p c so unless you have concerns or questions we'll go straight to eleven dash three there is a paragraph on line seventeen starting on line seventeen that says last night he also has a number of transit vacation rentals and bed and breakfasts accommodations the conversion of houses to t v r s and b has reduced the inventory of housing available for residents on maui and has created some conflicts with neighbors account recently created new and revise existing regulations regarding t v r s and b and b s however those regulations address the situation  will require regulations that are tailored to the unique situation and when the department has i suggested that that line be stricken but that whole paragraph be stricken can you talk about that a little bit it seems to be self explanatory but go ahead basically the department felt that the the us short term rental home ordinance and the b and b ordinance have been refined and they have gone before the planning commission's three planning commissions and that there is an established county regulatory process for these uses and that there was no need recommendations have been transmitted back to the council so you'll have the the minutes and the recommendations of all the planning commissions including night well but we've already gone through the t v are i mean we already have s t on t our language i know there's we're we're looking in bring it up again have right and that's what i'm saying the commission just recently reviewed the bill again ok provided supplemental comments now that the ordinance has been in effect  been in effect for a little while it's back in front of the council ok members any objection to removing that mr okama you want to talk about that is german thank you i would prefer we consider before it is also the alternate source of visitor accommodation for a component that the community looks forward to any early which is the annual state game mammal or in king bird management programs which brings in a lot of cash flow to our entrepreneurialism small family business is and so at one end of the spectrum maybe some long term rental or a chance for another firm to or have a good lease on a house but at the other end it also gives us the ability to take care of our hunting season that is a  big economic boom i go tell you it certainly is when we were over there last time big signs welcome so it helps the airlines it helps the merchants it helps you know pretty much anyone that has a business on the island and so i that things would be pretty safe mclean members are we ok with that language i like it yes ok great i page eleven dash for going over to that issue five is it says he has a number of vacation rental properties including bed and breakfast that cater to hunters combine a tourists and short stay visitors but mostly do not have county permits i can see mr hopper losing more hair over that am assuming well we talk about it a little bit in the page before but for that i don't like that issue miss but if i could jump in chair  the issues are tied to the strategies and because the strategy to address that issue is as we just discussed developing vacation real regulation specific to an i e because it seems that there is agreement that that opportunity has come and that matter is before the council then we don't need to list the issue because we're not going to pursue that strategy because it's been done already about illegal and i am trying to get a good sense of how we can assist them with this issue on the island no i don't believe that there was concern expressed in the c pac or the planning commission about noncompliance i think this issue in strategy more focused on that they were saying that it's it's a bit of a cumbersome process it's a it's a it's a detailed permit to go through and that some had not pursued it because of the process and then the financial impact of going through the permit it was not it was not that they had an issue that there were permitted ones it was that the process maybe was part of the reason why people had not pursued becoming permitted to me that's not a good enough excuse not to comply you could ask him to do the one permitted  into the actions now scuse me chair yes sorry on eleven five we noticed this after we had put together the list at last policy policy number fourteen on line forty five the same as as the committee's been discussing support development a vacation rental regulation specific to the situation online not us so we would recommend that that be deleted so consensus thank you page eleven dash six item eleven point zero three basically they're saying delete that entire action which says review the county's workforce housing ordinance consider revisions to address tonight ease particular situations we've just passed the workforce housing  i believe during that time did the one i planning commission have an opportunity to look at that or is this still something that we may need to do i know i don't think we did add any specific issues issues specific to an a arment the workforce housing ordinance  in working with the community at that back in that point in time regarding workforce holes in the law and i was part of conditions of approval if my memory serves me right and i think those things and i've got to review those conditions be a lot of housing going to go in there are you suggesting that we leave it up to the council to put conditions for workforce housing in that or use the existing workforce housing ordinance right which right now  says that we have twenty five there's a twenty five percent requirement here of its own without being discriminatory going against constitutional rights but for me i don't have a problem with the private sector to ensure if possible stronger my breakfast says though and that's what they prefer sure and i agree members with if you don't have any objection i would like to hear from the resource people on their concerns with what we currently have in the workforce housing compared to what they think what kind of revisions they would be looking at and i and i i'm pretty sure that this item was already created prior to this committee i mean not this committee but this council adopting the new workforce housing changes so without objection can we hear from the resource folks ok denise did you catch that ok can we ask  whoever can step up and say what kind of revisions are they looking at that would be different from what we've done already ok and that was who was that i'm sorry ok down to eleven point zero six the department suggests that we delete review and revise building codes to allow aging in place housing adaptations department of public works as lead county agency and planning department of the chair upon further research we came to the conclusion that the existing code does not have anything that prevents aging in place so this action was unnecessary ok members consensus with believing that and then down to eleven point zero nine says develop vacation rental regulation specifically for the night we are doing that so the department has suggested leaving that whole thing any objections to that the county is department of housing and human concerns and so no partnership there and this is housing i guess for its county suggestion is to provide adequate government sponsored affordable housing so that would be just d h wouldn't wouldn't be with anybody else but my question is the next portion of that sentence where it says for a loan i e government personnel and residence  school of their preferred choice but we also have state firefighters at their core we have state transportation people with highways on the island we have county police officers county firefighters state hospital personnel this lot of government requirements on the island and for this county we provide housing for the police department in county cable services or the level of service is not where it should be ok because of housing issues so i can understand the community a community making this is a concern that i can be supported by i would say the partners would be you know the so we're going to add state agencies various state agencies as a partner but that mr molina ok great thank you right back down to eleven point eleven line one the department says assist with workshops with the community to explore different housing types and development patterns that could be utilized in an the department felt that through the master planning process and design process for these communities phrase expansions that it would be the developer who would hold these workshops and that it wouldn't be completely the onerous of the planning department but that the planning department could play it a supportive role in workshops like this ok that makes sense members consensus with leaving it as a cyst with agency housing management or planning departments and i don't know why we wouldn't put as partners a way in homes because they have their subdivision right there f and pull out because they've got already lands approved to build housing and we're there we definitely need to be there so you're saying putting in d h l as a partner and d j to see but they definitely will have impact on the expansion of the city since they already have lands approved and again these are holding workshops this talk about a workshops at this point with or adding changing language to assist with ok levon point fourteen he says explorer development of incentives promoting the use of sustainable green building and development practices they the department has suggested that language as opposed to the original language it says develop incentives promoting the use of sustainable green building and development practices department because this is in such an early stage to go so far as to say develop incentives we need to starting pretty much from scratch on this so  in terms of tracking the implementation of this action item we feel like we can explore that rather than developing those incentives you know researching or exploring rather than coming out and developing them because it could be that there are existing incentives already  so we just wanted to back up a little bit from development mr o'connor this was be something totally different from the leads concept that we're more familiar with the director it could be it could be similar to that or it could go beyond that other than recruit being ultimately recouping the savings that lead development you know there's a high upfront cost for development and you save that over time so that's the that's the incentive plus getting the certification that you stay but i think this goes beyond that maybe making it more cost efficient from the first this talks about the incentives promoting the use of sustainable so it's interesting concept and i can see exploring the development of those in incentives is and then down to eleven and eleven point fifteen determine current community housing needs and project project future population growth and housing needs based on plans for new development the department has suggested of crossing that out i can see why because that's what this whole plan is that's exactly what this whole plan is any comments from the members any objections to removing  we have in this is government governance talking about how to deal what the issues are etc take a look at some of the issues and strategies there's a history issue one is there is a history of ineffective communication between residents of the primary and the primary land issue too there are insufficient opportunities for public participation in county government councils commissions committees and boards i know we're working on that we've done it we we're doing it now with the you know it's a limited but it's least we're working on it and i know we're working on getting video after that and we've gone out there more often than i've seen this council go out so i think we're reaching out we can still improve and we're working on that we are working on the concern the issue number three is  residents are concerned that there's a lack of effective representation at all levels of government we are working on that as well we change some laws to on specific boards and commissions to require somebody from that island beyond those so those are issues that are there and we continue to work on that so without objection we'll go to page twelve dash three which is the actions right the department i'm sorry i department i stepped on your lines there you can you have anything to add to the governor's portion covered it well it just the chapter touches a bit on the unique situation as far as the island being ninety percent owned by a private entity and then the relationship you talked about and the remote community and participation in your representatives to discuss ongoing issues and potential strategies for community plan implementation that has been crossed out completely department can you talk about that because that seems like something that we would want to encourage chair we felt like that action was not necessary holds regular community meetings to discuss issues and then as far as the component that says strategies for community plan implementation if you look further down in the table action item that has become twelve point zero five provide the not you planning commission with an or else annual status reports as described community meetings in framing them of a specific project where they be the renovation of the theater or information regarding currently the adjustments at the hotels momentum and energy of being willing to inform community on a regular basis and i think it's a good thing that they're doing and you know i don't see being a requirement in a government docket if for responsible property ownership so i can support the recommendation of removing that action is ok other members so without any objection will remove that action twelve point zero zero to increase the number of posted agendas and public notices printed in multiple languages department i i'm not aware that we post any agendas or public notices in multiple languages and i that would be a tremendous undertaking as as  e council well knows we staff eight boards and commissions who we have at least a dozen meetings every month of our different boards and commissions and  for those agendas to be effectively translated and i'm not even certain what languages this would be is just a tremendous undertaking and something like that i would propose should be a county wide directive not just for the planning department for the council for any other county boards and commissions it just  goes quite far members before i call on for comment i would like to just say that yeah that seems to be if we're going to do that we're going to have to do that because if we do it if we do for one we've got to do for all in this in this case and what language is so i'm fine with removing that language but i'd like to hear from mr okama or any other members as  well i don't have a i can't support the recommendation to remove it i can also on this then what the committee is trying to get is you know information to the maximum amount of people that may have a comment or a concern about what the is being proposed in their communities but i would agree with that they were ector this needs to be countywide policy not a district policy to consider looking into that as an official request from this committee you're ok with that mr say since he would make a recommendation to refer the subject matter correct as part of the community's recommendations to congress all right and so that would be just look into multiple languages on but i just was curious how this came about what hard disk it spurred to be put in here to begin with honestly don't know i don't recall i don't know if i was out when in the meetings that it did i don't know one of the resource people but i don't recall ok yeah if if you don't mind just  that's just my question so members of objection will talk to the resource folks and see if they have any recall recollection as to what happened there ms fernande ok ok thank you members you did here and that does mr redus did bring up a good point there's two parts to this one is increase the number of posted agendas and public notices which can be done so i'm willing to leave in that portion of the language just to see  i would ask how are we supposed to increase the number of posted agendas what do we i mean i'd like to ask helpful services staff if you were told increase the number of public agendas how do you do that where do you i mean i'm not sure we're not going to meet an assessor we're not going to post the same agenda more than once i don't know how to increase the number i'm guessing that you're talking about number of copies so not just posted let's say i'm guessing it's just happening at the community center or the media is going to be at the senior center that's where they post i'm guessing that they suggest that there's posting at both locations and potentially other places around the island so that people can see that i think that's what their intent is there yeah so and i think again that would be a matter of potentially  policy in and i don't know that we can legally do that either i see mr hopper having some concerns just from the body language well for the planning department it mike was suggest maybe it's locations to but the planning department doesn't have stefan and we post all of our meeting agendas on line u as available as we can so i'm so potentially i'd think since you're right you don't have essentially you don't have a staff over there would be up to the council services staff there to coordinate something like that i would think because what happens now with the agenda is mr holcombe i do recall if there's our agendas there's our agendas there's planning commission agendas there's there's definitely a  our merchants are family merchants has boards at their stores they've been always very gracious in allowing community members post signs on their boards for another venue of public information see the comm at the school i mean i don't know what's allowed or not allowed but i don't have a problem with us train to have more information out there when we doing meetings yes not everybody is going to get the information sherman also then won't go on the county website you know there are those that actually register to receive notices email and you can check which which departments and which boards and commissions and there's a little clicker you just click on an exit and then to automatically send you  the email notices and you can i think you could get taxes i'm not sure but you can get really specific on if you just tracking one department or one border commission just click on that or if you want it all then just go down the on the list and click it on you'll get massive e mail when he says yeah and i agree but mr hall comma brings up a good point i'm not sure how many folks there are computer savvy at this point of a little bit more communication but i think that at on a case by case basis i think certainly council services is getting the message that there might be a need for a few more postings but i don't know that it right rises to the level of an action according to the comments from mr okama any comments from the rest of the committee ok thank you members almost done here twelve point seven the department has it says implement the use of social media to improve public communication and the department as requested to remove that is made it chair we recommend to delete that because that is already been implemented ok that's easy members any comments concerns mr hall comma if he were to be heard two weeks ago it was that we need to improve the delivery of information through social me a because we've had comments about difficulty accessing the department's comments regarding the community plan consideration agreed and so i guess i'm not a s and that could be council services as well as merits office lead agencies are actually council services at least for a little more more the we do have  notices i think council services is going to be the would be the lead agency on that only because more notices come from us and then a partner an agency would be the mayor's office slash the administration i'm going to say encourage the use of social media to improve public communications we do we have implemented it but we need to make it a little bit better and then the lead agency would be coun services and department of management would be the partners and the concerned with that in consensus on that ok thank you ok and i get agree with mr okama we've had some issues with this specific document so hopefully we can work on that twelve point zero nine create a night community plan implementation plan or position i believe i see that that's a specific to the let not your community plan i'm guessing you know i'll let the department go with that one chair we have a new division plan implementation division within the planning department and so that covers this action and we did not feel it was appropriate to have a specific only lanai easy community plan implementation plan or position it's it is a division within the planning department that will cover implementation of the general plan around plan community plans and i believe that implement to that division came up after this document was made or about the same time yes and the originally this action going in yes that the division was created post after that ok mr holcombe any right that gets us to the end of chapter twelve we only have chapter thirteen and some appendices left and then that and the discussion on the maps so i think this is a great time to break for lunch if we can be back here by one thirty we can get this done for the rest of the day hopefully everybody will be here i know one person has to leave it two or two thirty but i think with enough  here we can get this finished so members thank you and i hope please be back here by one thirty we are now in recess when the planning committee meeting of february fifth please come back to order all right members thank you for getting back your relatively early time we're on chapter thirteen now this is the implementation and monitoring plan and if we can have a discussion an overview from the department i would appreciate it and then we'll go on from there it's a chapter thirteen discusses the implementation and monitoring program which the bulk of it is the implementation table which is a compilation of the actions from all the chapters that you've been reviewing that implements  that are needed to implement to actualize the plans vision the goals the policies and the the primary edition in the implementation table from the action tables that you've been reviewing is the addition of effectiveness of policies and programs monitor the quality of life and allow for periodic program adjustments that's kind of an overview of the chapter as far as just that structure ok members a couple things we're going to get to in the back of this is a table and that will have the list of priorities that the community put on there keep in mind that we've changed a lot of the actions and so some of the actions will have been deleted or changed or we have added some and i'll explain to you when we get  to that how we're going to handle this section so first of all in the implementation and monitoring section page thirteen desh one the department has  added significant language to the end of paragraph two paragraph two starts off with the implementation schedule is included in this chapter and includes a description of the project or program priority timing lead in the implementation ssion agency estimated cost and potential funding sources then they added actions may be implemented by the lead county agency or by another agency such as the state or nonprofit groups and assisted by a county agency actions are identified as either party one or priority two with priority one being the highest priority identifying high priority actions helps agencies focus on implementing key actions considering time and budget constraints party to actions are still considered and porton for implementing the community plan the following questions were used to identify priority one actions one will the action address an urgent issue two is the action required for public health and safety three is the action required by legal mandate for is the action required to be event the in irretrievable loss of a resource five well the action benefit the majority of the community six will the action significantly improve the quality of life of law now you residence we need to change that at least in my part that version that says and seven is the action required for other actions to be initiated and eight is the action already funded so members those are the the changes that the department wants to make on page thirteen dash one department you want to mention talk about that are fairly self explanatory but go ahead i would just mention that the first sentence that you read that was added sentence that actions may be implemented by the league county or by another entity with the county assisting in we just wanted to clarify that because there was a number of actions in the tables that we have the county as a lead but at lead as in assisting correct i have to say to agency so that was a clarification we wanted to add and then as far as talking about the priority part is ation and the questions we just felt that adding this in this process was used when we reviewed the plan with the planning commission and these are the questions that they used to help themselves prior ties the action so we thought that it was important to include this in the text so you could see the thought process that went on ok members any question with that language ms cochran thank you and so then the last two sentences in the draft  kept it adds to what you just correct read off correct you just read in the insert the end of paragraph two everything else is still the same ok because i guess we do have some written testimony in regards to  conveying you know whatever the actions that you're stating are going to occur or they don't get revenge it or somehow some type of you know comment period or well we have to and the way this is going to work is we 're going to get through what we can today and then we're going to go back to what nike and passed completely out of committee probably at tagging on to the budget when we go over for a budget once it's that's one  section of testimony we will except of course written testimony all the way through and then once it's passed out of committee they're still going to be a council public hearing as well before it gets first reading so they'll be two more instances  both on night that people have a chance to testify and discuss this far is going back i mean the process has always been that once at least when i planning committee it gets changed by  the department not so not a lot here in this case but it gets changed by the department and then those recommendations are brought to us and we take any and all measures that we can we can accept their recommendations or not as we have done in this going through this some recommend most recommendations we accepted some we said no and some we added and some we changed so recommendations they didn't make any recommendations but we changed on our own so none of that goes through any other review process other than through us and opportunity for two public testimony and public hearing sections sometime in april with when we go over for budget ok any other comments on that all right so without any objection we're going to accept that language ok that's it for the chapter thirteen planning committee planning department changes now there's the table let's take a look at the table everybody  turn to page one of the table which is that the it says that when i community plan l p c final draft october fourteen implementation actions if you take a look at the table essentially has the actual numbers it's looks like it's  done by c i p you know it goes into c ip environment natural resources hazard mitigation i mean it goes to reach chapter and any implementing actions the descriptions you mine the descriptions may change may have changed from what we've done or may be completely gone i would like to talk to like everybody to note that there is this estimate there are estimated costs when possible and we have part of one party to and it turns out that our budget chair is also the lanai representative so i'd like to have him kind of discuss his thoughts on this the priorities in the budget and and the recommendations i think you chairman my comments it's pretty consistent what i shared with members top issues that were program services c a p requests and i for one don't plan to make any adjustments to other communities recommending i would just say that as  thirteen as an example the councilors i feel i need to make that county white perspective decisions on policy and funding at the appropriate time but use the community plans as a guidance for us to to put into perspective where the district feels it should be really in the county's financial resources so that's why i plan to approach budget mr chairman and committee members and i think that's the first way for us to deal with the community's recommendations on priority thank you thank you and members this also will be a road map for if we get into discussions or deliberations in the budget at some time not necessarily this budget because this won't have passed by then but we'll be able to look back at this when if there's conflicting needs we say when we return to the island ok yeah when we have the final draft for when we return to the island that will be taken into account so members you heard what mr okama sa his recommendation is to go with what the community says are the communities priorities and that may not be council's priority in their overall sense but if we need to choose between a couple of items at least this is what the community recommends the planning department did not make any changes have been going through this i haven't seen anything any you know something standing way out  that would warrant a priority change one small thing that i have i would ask well it depends on what we do with the land use but i would ask the  member from one that he is developing in constructing a fire in safety and rescue services facilities that manelli that was listed as a top priority is that so you're asking they're asking for a second fire station and potentially ocean rescue in my earlier discussions with the department we're looking more at a substation mr chairman at that point in time i think it's  responsible for the department to reassess make you know more current reassessment about for me until we get them on in only main station on the island staffed and equipped at the level he needs to be i will not be looking at other stations for the island ok you know my thing is you need to take the lane based first so that if and when need be you know the appropriate level of consideration for  is to leave the recommendations as is unless you have a specific really desire to change a priority on any one of these  we do have we can go right through me if not i suggest that once we get the updated version you go through one more time to see if something makes sense to change the priorities  unless you want to go through each one of these individually now i think i'm willing to take the recommendation of the representative of that island and go with the communities recommendation it's been vetted through the the community plan advisory committee when i planning commission and the planning department and nobody's this is the final version so without objection because i don't see anybody raising their hands ms cochran i do have a where in here as i've been hearing over and over from some people of the in the community that a lot of the decisions in the bigger picture buildout what have you of the plan itself had to do with perhaps the diesel plant or some other type of designated water source to accomplish all of this and so because that seems to have fallen through where is that notating in here of some kind in appendix or somewhere i don't know and states that in in chapter seven we added language to basically say if you don't have the water you are going to be able to do any and stuff might be able to point to that but we did discuss that in chapter seven to make it clear that without available water  they weren't able to do any any additional or any complete build out of this they had to have sufficient water as we went right i mean just as it relates to the implementation and monitoring of this itself not going to implement if you don't have the source for if it's possible or brackish you need type of water being needed to carry  out and so i guess until there is it's it we got it it actually the planning department added it page seven dash five line twenty five to twenty eight they added the policy support the provisions under the land us council if that basically limits them to making sure that they have enough water before doing any of these issues or implementing any of these development so mr chair whether or not a project is able to go forward is going to depend on the route regulations in place at the time for that project if they're going to be required to have water through the show me the water bill or some equivalent that's going to apply at the time  if the water source is not available and is required for a particular entitle meant such as a change in zoning that's something that the council can consider and entitling that project and say we are not going to grant the project but generally those decisions are made at the time that the entitlements  as the council's looking at a change in zoning they can evaluate the water source and development of the state land use commission is looking at the same thing they can evaluate the water source availability but generally they do not  require proof of a long term water source at the land use commission level as an example they can they can certainly ask questions and generally they could deny a project if they believe that they had not adequately shown the potential for future water source development but generally that's not something that it's going to prohibit development if prohibit the granting of entitlements and so if we're going to look at language that's going to do that i think it would you know be unprecedented in the county but i'm not sure if that's the actual intent of of the language it says adequate it doesn't specify d c i believe it says whatever  adequate sources are made but are arrived at but it's highly unusual to have if the intent is to prevent future entitlements things that's something in the change in zoning ordinance that requires an assessment and so generally those decisions are made during the entitlement process thank you and just  for the members and the body who need to refresh their memories refreshed we we did discuss the fact that most of this plan was based on having enough water through the discussion i think it still is sufficient enough to say look you can't do it unless the council wants to override you know the fact that you don't have any water i think it's this is sufficient enough to say look  we have to carefully consider the adequacy of adequacy of that water supply source and infrastructure and if if there's no water from the sound they're tapping down to their the last limits i'm sure mr hall com to be very vocal about the fact that they get they have no water so how can we support this project or whoever the representative is when this comes up of course in twenty years it still could be yes miss maclay but terrify could come at the beginning of the water section the beginning of chapter seven page seventy three it does say that the sea pact predicated their decisions on the availability of significant additional water sources the future development proposals and that's one of the section called existing conditions so that was established early on in that chapter it should be noted though that additional water sources doesn't have to be would be conservation it could be improved groundwater recharge it could be increased use of reclaimed water they're all there's a variety of ways to have increased additional potable sources so the cell i think was foremost on their minds at the time but it could come from other places as well ok i'm ok ok the other questions on the implementation section suggestion of the department is to delete appendix three point two one that you forced in washed up partners or ship list of partners as that one i force and watershed partnership no longer exists we normally don't i'm not familiar with any of the other community plans where we've listed private partnerships between landowners and other entities so but that's so i would just question whether this is the proper place for that anyway but that that is the committee's call  and conditions of approval  i'm not sure what the department is asking for on this you're saying it's incomplete and redundant with the maui county code title nine thousand listings of ordinance on the county website oh you want to delete the whole this is apparently a list not sure how it was compiled or whether or not it's comprehensive of some conditions of zoning that have been adopted by ordinance a this is not a required component of a community plan b it is an incomplete potentially an incomplete list and cannot verify the accuracy of of all of the information in here and it's it's it could be deceiving as far as putting zoning ordinances that already exist as part of a community plan the concern is that there be incomplete information is something like this wants to be you know provided to the public well first of all it's public record anyway but if there's a compilation list that could be provided to the public that's fine but my concern was putting it as part of a zoning as part of the community plan with it not as a required component and with a potentially non comprehensive or inaccurate list was potentially problematic listing all of those zoning ordinances in a community plan is an extremely odd thing i don't think i've seen it in another in any other context and that's when when the department asked me for advice on this that was the recommendation also these aren't i don't understand why these would be prior agreements there appear to be  laws basically ordinances passed by the by the county that did not appear to be you so called private agreements and things like that that were were discussed separately which again would be inappropriate for placement in a community plan because they're if you read the components of what the plan is required to contain it it's not listed there so that was the the problems that i had observed and advised with the with the department ordinances but this is supposed to be a plan it's not supposed to be a comprehensive documentation of all the pluggable land use laws that apply to the island of the i would also say that the i bring up the question ok so if this is a part of if this is one of the append a season and the landowner comes in and wants to amend say one even one little section the state's setbacks for some on built part of a project district do they then have to go amend the community plan as well and trigger the whole process and all that stuff it seems like an a lot of unnecessary regulation in order to to accommodate it what you know i mean it there may be big things that want to be public it's not necessary for these to be within the plan any comments from mr okama i can appreciate the planning director's comments chairman but on the other hand written the county not following through on complaints so i don't have a problem putting any documents somewhere to reminds the government employees that they have a job to doing complaints and follow through says that the venue then chairman i would look for another venue but the plan is predicated on those two key project districts and and to understand the currency to a you've got to understand the project district for those of us who've lived through it it's a little different but for those that having gone through it and it is going to learn through reading the documents well i don't have a problem telling them where to look for that information it would be municipal code dot com i think is where they would if this is where they're getting that information and this information is present is incomplete and redone or you know what this part may be redundant but this is incomplete is telling me what's on the books now that is that incomplete well i'm reading me under the purpose it says this list was developed in response to the sea pact members concerns about prior agreements and conditions of proof for the manelli and co l a project districts that either may not have been fulfilled or maybe currently out of compliance this list was compiled from research of historical documents and may not represent a complete record so i'm guessing the planning either the  currents that is it can give me a complete assessment of all conditions what is being complied with ongoing hasn't been or what i feel a lot better and mr  may be if we do it through and i'll get to you in in a minute mr augusten maybe if we do as a communication from this distance from this committee to the council to ask for a  compliance update and that can come to either i would think it would be this committee or maybe p i i'm not sure but to actually have that as an item to go through so would you be willing to go through that because i am concerned when when co counsel is concerned most of the time i'm concerned but i'd be willing to absolutely put in a communication saying let's go through and find out everything that's in one thousand points seven zero nineteen point seven one what the conditions were because unfortunately most of the conditions aren't put in there in the ordinance but they're not put into law so we do have to go find the conditions i'm sorry they're in the ordinance but yeah and that but they're not into the county code so we would have to do some research the department would have to do research and then compared to with what's going on but i think that's something that they can do and then that can be a whole item for this committee at some other time mr hopper and i want to note again and i did state this earlier that zoning conditions are those are ordinances adopted and passed by the council they are independent of the current and the future community plan so if there's compliance issues with that or if that they exist completely independently of the community plan right so that's that's an important distinction and whether they're listed here are not listed here  or whatever else is said in the plan if there's existing conditions or zoning those will those would be in effect independent of the of the plan or the new plan until there amended by the council right and that's that's my contention too is that it isn't part of the community plan but it is something that this committee in a different item can certainly pursue and has pursued before and different projects we do we have one coming up pretty soon is the mckenna conditions unfortunately it appears that at the time that these conditions were given they weren't required to do an annual report or any kind of compliance report at least to the council they may have to do one to the department but i'm willing to bring them up and say ok well we on all the what are the conditions and where are we as far as compliance in another item in this committee i'd be happy to do that pull it's also the community's level of chess with this county government you know as as was stated that the ordinance is stand by themselves those ordinances were vetted by the county council and they were approved to as a form by our corporation council the wording of those is very precise and you know i was not there when that the council was forming conditions so but i but having worked with the county council i know very often you're very precise with the wording of of conditions in the everything about the ordinance this is something of a i can't say that every word is exactly as the county council sad i mean i i have full confidence in the ability of planning staff at some point in the future when presented with perhaps in an foresman issue and the wording in the community plan is slightly different than what the actual ordinance says that to me that creates a lot of confusion in the community as where we're looking for i mean potentially as where we're looking for surety in the community and with the council and with enfor i would prefer that this be taken out i would be happy to compile all these ordinances into i mean they're available on the web anyway but i'd be happy to compile them all into one p d f downloadable that the community can you know put in there if they've got the capacity in their cellphones at least on their desktops and you know they can search through them and cetera and then you know i can't speak for the for the land owner but it seems like it's probably a good idea to do a compliance report and then we would review that and report to the council when you know when that matter comes up when its board she needs something to do with mister right and i thank you very much director i appreciate the offering from that the you've just proposed to thank you very much i for one thing you know less is the council as well as the penny commissions on some potential future then use i don't know why but is there anything this if you can tell us tell us the continued discussion about amending the ordinances so are you giving me one heads up that this proposed to amend the project district ordinances comma i'm not suggesting there is going to be any amends i'm not aware of any but i just know from time to time we go oh my god we we made this mistake this wasn't clear in whatever ordinance we passed we need just a little amendment and so if if such a small amendment happens to appear in one of these ordinances and even if the county council agrees with it yes that's a good thing that we should clarify we may have to send you know through the whole process and everything and i just where we're trying to make the land use easier not easier but less bureaucratic bureaucratic  potential changes and potentially a requirements and what not but it's also the chairs comment that we should through the subject matter for it through communication to council to refer a compliance to chapter nineteen point seven zero one one thousand point seven one of the maui county code and its conditions we would like a compliance report from the department you got that mr jordan for the record so the committee is recommending a referral of the subject matter relating to outstanding compliance conditions relation to chapters nineteen point seven zero one thousand point seven one correct and refer all to the thank you chair and yeah i i like where you're headed but i also like this summary here of sorts in relation to all this because i could just scan these pages and get a good idea of what the conditions were for these project district had no clue and you know the first paragraph purpose it's states also may not represent a complete record but it gives a general i nischelle draft planning commission started and so this came entirely from the long range staff in the in the planning department and it was to respond to as it says in that purpose back members often in the meeting would bring up there's agreements and we would what kind of agreements and there what we didn't know and it seemed like there were green minutes between castle and cook and the and and the residents and those who'd be not a concern of the county and then there were agreements that were related to the project district and so this was meant to be a tool to be used with the with the planning commission so that they would at least see well what it were the what were the ones that the agreements that the county might be you know have but it was it was put together just drawing off for the website and and the reason we put the sons up there in the top is we weren't sure whether we caught them all and you know there many on the web site so it so it really probably should have been separate from the copy that we gave them like it's a separate tool for them to use during the planning no more than sixty percent of existing within the area shall be cleared if the community and everybody agreed that they wanted to change at the fifty percent it would you would need an in order for that because in order to make a community plan amendment you have to have an environmental assessment so any changes if this is part of the community plan and you actually change the code which is nineteen i think that seven one seven zero you'd want the code changed to be matched to what's in this book then once you do that you have to do an environmental assessment mr turner yes this is a comment i wanted to know that i don't i mean this is clearly showing existing ordinances and giving dates if they're amended after this i don't want the implication to be in order for that amendment to be effective you would need a community plan amendment in order to change this language it's true you would have a need a community plan amendment but and i'm sorry that what i intend to the ordinances are in effect independent of the planet to me the greater concern would be that for example in the in the very beginning it has a section on multiple sections after that and you know i think the department looked at that and said well there's one section that talks about required agreements and so we're going to put that in but there's also ten other sections that are part of this ordinance and some of those do talk about requirements such as irrigation requirements and other things and that was the only concern and if there is a list compiled i would you know recommend including the actual ordinance that's on file rather than one section of that ordinance that was picked up because it seems to deal with agreements that's another concern mentioned here because that's that's one relatively small portion of a pretty comprehensive worden and switch goes over everything including permitted uses and a lot of other things and so are these documents exist and things isn't as big of a deal as trying to adopt the text as part of the pull of a plan can can be very misleading i think but i think chapter thirteen page five has an action in relation to renovate restore and preserve the brown house social hall parentheses for continued community use and so i am not familiar it was up where we have our county where we had our medium but that's the old bowling alley so i'm not sure where is and what is that because it doesn't seem to be listed in appendix five point one historic and cultural resources seems to have every of the building of some sort with historical significance with that brown house and i are not really sure what that is or where and if it should be in this listed here so it was really spoken of in chapter thirteen in action number five point zero five so that's implementation of monitoring chapter and it does say action number five point five description restore and preserve the brown house social hall and your continue community and keep in mind that we change that to it because this corresponds directly to actual action table five point one item five point zero five we say provide assistance to land order to restore and preserve the brown house which names in columns and biscuit ages somebody didn't like you loose you were terminated he lost your company house you go to you got to can you charge abilities from the market so it was a different era agree with the group that is a major and has such like historical connection to the community from its pineapple days you know whether you want to believe the global stories it in there before we go any further that's a separate issue we're still trying to determine whether or not we want to pull out that chapter so one but i want to do i will bring that up next  you know i know the can you say with some difficulty with this and it's a tough tough tough one even for me but i would tell you one of the things that can help you is that if you look at chapter fifteen and you go has no sense of history of our island somebody shoots it where is that million dollars that i can tap in as a current merchant twenty some of these goals and that is exactly what i would be asking for from the department saying here's a list of your conditions has that but not because that would be my first question is established that's part of what complainers reports right and that's exactly why i want to get that compliance report i think it's all of those discussions should be held in that in that  so members having that recommendation and coming back to the council with a request for the compliance report any objections with removing that appendix seeing none for changes is when the environmental assessment requirement would be triggered not necessarily for revisions initiated by the planning director or council ok thank you ok next page eight twenty eight which is appendix nine point four of the not you planning standards and the department is asking to delete that appendix because the new list of planning principles and standards is in chapter nine  as appendix as an appendix nine point four should be legally determined by county council at the time of zoning and should be based on studies and findings made during the entitlement process because things may have changed between the time this is printed in the time something is actually done department any further comment or mr hopper i could comment on this an executive session if you like mr chair i did that with the planning commission regarding these these the issue of deleting this in my opinion there is legal advice and legal issues potentially involved with these with this this language at this time short recess two minutes please we have any desire to do that ok all right so then the request is to delete appendix nine point four because a new list of planning principles is already in proposal until i'm convinced otherwise i don't have a problem having it remain in that document other members let me just remind everybody that in page nine dash three we have the land use planning principles and standers which talks about most of that stuff integrity in then owner and in the county these are things said to the community and the pipelines in many many meetings so i think the community's diary now nine three and reference and but this really details it out more you know this this appendix i guess there's no concerns as was stated it had been vetted through executive sessions what have you to come out with this version and seems if that's be deemed fit for public viewing and what have you not that's not true you're shaking your head no this is legal document at this point no not legal but i mean it when it gets through us it then will become legal if approved with form in legality ok right now it's not our legal purposes right right now it's not a legal document mr hopper do you have any comment i mean what maybe what i'm saying is that this page currently and the words on it are ok for all of us to sit here and read it's ok for us to discuss openly to the public so all anything that wasn't that couldn't be done this you know publicly has been omitted or whatever i was in at these executive sessions and so as m until proven otherwise it seems to be ok at this point and this is the will of planning commission and others who put it here for us to now look at so i don't see a big issue either and also feel no need to go into the executive session about it that's my comment on this page comma i just find it interesting because this is part of the existing community plan exactly it's in the current document people  mr hopper again i have legal advice that i would like to provide to the committee in executive session regarding this language it's certainly up to the committee whether or not it chooses to go into executive session and that's as far as essentially he can go with that it's the church recommendation that we follow core councils recommendation but if i get no motion then and recommendation to delete appendix nine point four based on what it says in here and what information  that i know if there is any comments about this or if there's no objection that's what we're going to do now in the one nine hundred ninety eight plan that it's has a heading of c planning standards and then there's a introductory three lines that we'd the following planning standards are specific guidelines or measures for development and design these standards are essential in clarifying the intent of the land use and town design objectives and policies and the land use map and then it is exactly as it is on the page in the current update with the exception of there was a item which reads no applications for zoning shall be filed for the one acre business slash commercial area at the police station identified as t m k four dash nine dash six four until a new police station has some built and the courthouse has been relocated the planning commission took that off as the police station has been built thank you for the questions thank you and still hearing no objections  going to be some kind of legal thing if we and that's what he wants to tell us in executive session he can't say that in open session at this i don't want to know the details of it but why i don't understand why it vetted through that community to this form to us if there is issues why did it come to us to begin with in this form because it's not a legal document at this point before this gets made when we pass it out of committee and council passes it then becomes a legal document this is and i understand that sorry mr robert but i understand that and the point is why wasn't those matters being addressed at the time to say once it gets the calls it will become legal so we shouldn't even put it there i mean that's where i'm having this kind of a hard time common sense thing happening it doesn't make sense so that's just my stand on that mispricing sure this is always difficult you know when we're being offered a legal concern and you know we're not really sure that we want to go into executive session now it might ask mr harper how complicated this issue is it's going to take  issue i can explain it in executive session but to me it is a important issue to if i was speaking with a a private client or a client i would certainly put this in i would i would keep the advice confidential and that is the gauge that i use in giving legal advice to the county and the county council as my client in this case so that's why every recommended executive session it sounds like this is a fairly simple explanation once we can get it done so based on that i will make that motion so you're moving that we don't know exactly seven percent to ninety to five yes or i think we better on the side of caution space of her concern i can appreciate and understand that concern very well i mean maybe if i place the question to mr over this week the language in the current community plan is is that any issue that is one of the issues i would like to discuss in executive session but what i weren't language is an issue all this is this is that mirrors that language so yes m recommendations to delete appendix nine fo should yes the chair entertain a motion to adopt the planning department's recommendation to delete appendix nine point four motion dice and but we still have more to go let's go on further the chair will not be recommending passing this community plan until we have that discussion because from the information i have here and i can't recommend passing this community plan out chapter fifteen we're on the maps now are planning department has come to the microphone we can hardly ok the plane department has a couple additional recommendations within the pending section ok the first is on appendix nine point two that's page eight twenty four and the language that we'd like to see in the third column where you have the heading says county zoning districts we just like to add a star or a footnote symbol and them below the table have wording as follows examples of listed signing districts are not exclusive as additional zoning categories beyond those listed may be appropriate comma or amendments may be made to the comprehensive zoning ordinance numbers and the objection to putting that making that change ok next ok the next change that the plan department would like to recommend is to appendix nine point three th the county community plan designations and this is on page a twenty six and after the first paragraph we'd like to insert a sentence the following sentence county community plan land is designations are not regulatory the following list of dozen nations provides general descriptions of types of uses  mr hopper any concerns without language no mr chair if the in intent is to specify that the zoning if it does owning controls the use of the property i think that's the the general intent of the language ok can you read that again please mr gibson yes county community plan land use designations are not regulatory the following list of dozen nations provides general descriptions of types of uses you got that mr women was not to be included in the first paragraph or to be a standalone paragraph stand alone paragraph i would think that that yes it was a study below the first paragraph as a stand alone sentence or two sentences and mr spence reason for  that i think as mr hopper iterated that the the land use maps within the community plans are intended to show they reflect existing uses but also where future land uses are going to go it's really when when the county council goes to implement the community plans it's the zoning that's regulatory so if you say hotel or you say project district and you list all the conditions those aren't really those aren't what's in the descriptions for the community plan designations it's it's the zoning as implemented by the council that's the regulation not the community plan designation and we have that language in there because we've had some real life issues with that is that correct yes that's correct i don't think we'll life issues and putting this in this plan is not going to alleviate requirements of state law for like s m a consistency it's just specifically dealing with  you know how we how these are applied and i would say people are some people are concerned that you know we're reducing regulation if these were regulatory and you have all of a sudden you have a mixed use designation on a map or we saying you can go ahead and do that i don't think so i think that what the intent of these maps should be is what are what's currently existing and what are the future land use is going to be it's not a it's not just handing out an entitlement it's one of many entitlements needed to go ahead and build something members any concerns with that in that language consensus thank you ok you know before we start with the maps let's take a afternoon break if we can i'll be back here at five after three then we can get this done in relative aced so this meeting is in protection preservation restoration needs i would like to have the committee please consider inserting at bloomfield brown house or a social hall is  historical buildings on the island and maybe also included under number eight historically ok so i would see what it's like in between clearly project district and the lanai city community it's on the border that's the bloomfield brown house also known as social hall yes and the wants to add it to item eight as well and that i think addressed your concern to this cochran is that correct ok yes so members quickly run to the maps the first few maps are just essentially for our information  i'm sure we're not experts on a lot of this so i'm guessing that we're not going to want to change certainly map a which is the the naive forests and watershed partnership and as you know in previous discussion we had a question of whether that partnership even exists anymore so if it does not exist we would prefer that it be removed from this mount it's and i know we haven't taken that out we were going to discuss that probably on  harley forest and watership partnership can we change partnership to area and just make sure that it's there because it is a watershed area and i'm thinking we we need to be aware of that is delineated under as separate legend symbol so it's the the what was or is the watershed partnership extends clear over to the dry side on the towards the northwest and so it's not just not just the watershed preserve has its own legend identity the dry land forest scrubs where there are significant quantities of native species and resources those are also identified on here the watershed partnership as what is or was a specific entity it's not identifying a particular habitat and that's what the purpose of this map would be would be to identify specific habitats or specific preserves identifying a partnership or even you know just having a red line it it would be confusing to me just going ok what is this it doesn't i don't know what it identifies if you just give it another name and that's why i'm saying it it's an area of the forest and watershed because that watershed looks like it extends down to that area as well and i mean they were doing that  guess let's ask mr holcombe while we discussed that a little bit there but can you refresh our memory as to what happened with this ok number two map three point two in these are natural resource and management areas and he comments department sixth i believe six seventh box down in the ledge in the proposed critical plant habitat u s fish and wildlife two thousand and twelve that layer has been updated so we do want to change that to the adopted layer which and change the name to just critical habitat in parentheses u s fish and wildlife two thousand and fourteen because this layer  was consolidated by the state of hawaii at the end of the year in two thousand and fourteen so they they went through with the process without you know they just consolidated the u s fish and wildlife layers into all the different species into one one big layer of the fifty you can use a mouse i believe you can use mouse two because we need you on a microphone mike sorry there's an area on on the north side of the island actually it's a small area probably i'm guessing about two hundred acres or so and it is designated in that database ok if that exists i don't see any i mean if it's designated already i don't see any reason why not to add it members ok with that yes mr and you just give us a sense of what this means well i believe there were thirty seven species of plants and animals designated and i believe that are actually in the state and i believe that unless the there's three three that are endangered and that's what they want to capture i mean in a nut shell i believe that's that's what but there's a just of volume of information that you can read in the metadata for this critical habitat i can i can get you the metadata and is this really part of what the rest of the county went and mean also we have a lot of objections from our community yet it's the same application it's the same layer but that is on the state website the office of planning that puts out updated layers of every g i s layer we we have in the state federal state etc so that periodic lee check those that website and download the latest layers and those have all been adopted mr chairman please how about this how about if i mean i understand that there's new data and that's that's a good thing to get the most current can we before this was adopted let us do some research other as to whether this is has been adopted by the u s fish and wildlife or what kind of regulatory effect this would have fine i mean the map itself wouldn't be regulatory but the i mean we want to be accurate as to its meaning and so we will get back to the committee on this particular item and i'm fine with that and so us fish and wildlife are all the light blue and i think mr holcombe mission he thought perhaps that that red oblong area where we had questions about an hour deferring at this point  had to do with them also so but it's not completely on your map i don't know my maps different viewpoint one so y always will look into that three point t three to the only change we're posing on that forty and we're going to go ahead is to remove the rock and gravel out of the ledge and corey sites because because they do not exist in our database in this particular map they exist in other on other islands and it was inadvertently left in this this map oh yeah because i don't see any right so that's just the reality of what's occurred the department those aren't depicted on this map they are not depicted in a database in the attributes but we can certainly put them on there if and i believe i know wh t what council member who comma is referring to yeah i'd rather see them on there if they actually exist they should be on the map ok members any objection to that ok and if we're going to extend them in you know really make more cool programs work and what not and i appreciate this and yeah i want to advocate for it but if that's not what we're trying to do and we have and then mr opposite well it's kind of tough because you have no jurisdiction that is state then you know let's make the decision  though if i can while they're discussing that my thought on this is if we leave it in there at least we know in discussions on what may be happening upstream or above that might affect oh look we've got a lot of coral down here maybe we don't want to we want to be a little bit more careful i would think that that would be at least for informational purposes for us to know where that stuff is  to the question was what kind of jurisdiction do we have over the for the coral reefs i believe everything the cost side of the upward wash of the waves is conservation district so and i think that turner member somewhere where i think the district goes to five miles around the island or something like that that would be under department a land of natural resources however any  land activities that would affect the near shore water would be regulated through the special management area hopper in addition the grading permit process does have a lot of erosion control measures best management practices things like that that i mean it applies whether or not there's coral involved but that's that's another example and so for me i just want to make sure that we can do our part to protect and trying to keep as best we can a healthy resources to them because for us it's critical we had testimony about substance the practices from our native for a community i think that seriously it's part of our state constitution we were cut to put that in the constitution and so i just want to make sure the and i can do its part the main thing in its native cultural practices chairman thank you thank the other comments on that map next we're on three point five sorry five point one that would be cultural historic and archeological resources the comments from the department we'll can that comments from the committee communication towers are as part of a key infrastructure like for communication purposes and would that be something that we should consider placing on the maps chairman go ahead but it's fine with me if we put some of those things on here i know that in the past like i mean maybe it maybe at this scale it doesn't matter i know there's been some security questions about those kind of critical infrastructure communication infrastructure that certain federal agency has no like you know specific things some things put on maps but i mean i don't know maybe that's that's not an issue and i just say ask the question because counties you know we're making a big push nationwide if that's something the committee would would like us to look into we can look into that county but you know it's how we were going to convince the federal government of search and support ok so you guys the members are you ok with that department we even have that information we don't currently using a chair we currently don't have in our database but i'm sure the police may have it as they do the call mr comey if you're thank you all right next map seven point two transportation existing am proposed department if you chair the only change in this map is to replace the proposed runway in the legend with airport the language of what the word airport ok are there are port path toward that smaller and called ma at one point the state had highway one thirty signs on it and they claim jurisdiction i definitely don't want it under the black legend of county as i'm going to dispute it that's all roads on the old maps you will see to us is government road and this is of course early territorial  and it's in what database as a county road this is in our kiva database as a county road so that means the public works department as well i don't i don't we do not maintain the road mr chairman right and i don't know that the county council would have had to accept that that right correct ok next road ownership i'm guessing is going to be the same seven point three and why why do we have two separate roads because you already talk about road ownership any reason why we have to separate maps ok i see the little bit differences in the map it looks like it might be a little bit overkill but that's all right about seven point four road classification and that means arterial collector local in lane and some trails and stuff anything on that map department you know changes care mistral commas outlook fairly straightforward  department i can't say mr chairman i know this was discussed extensively that the different roads were discussed extensively on the island with the sea pack and the planning commission but the exact definition i can give you i'm not sure there's that much meaning assigned to it but i'm trying to check with staff and  didn't really actively work on this but i believe what they were trying to do is show from the database the amount of traffic it would well it gives you there are different classifications of whether it's an ar l collector or a local or lame and so it's imagine this was in the database with that classification on it but we can look into it more that the fifth street and i'm interested because i have my house is on fifth street and we want to star on the map where your house is mr but i just want to know i mean you know it on my map it's listed as a local ro s so you know everything that's going to plan to be shredded into the proposed county affordable housing site the next phases of anything that hoeing home does it's all geared to come through fifth street want fish street or just from frazier avenue or maybe well fifth street has always been the not salt road between frasier island i ever knew from the time i grew up so i just wanted to know lives there seemed it their peers like it's going to be a collector because that's where all the rest of the developments going to go we can look at that mr chairman thank you and please put a star on  department no not on this map but i did want to take a second to just reiterate that some of this data is gotten lost i'll put it that way doug miller was working on the roads layer so we will talk to doug since he's back now and we'll figure out some of the stuff when our apologies for that ok public facilities and services my days of operating quarterly company that has always been a company road company room i'm guessing that's in there because of data that may be missing in the database yeah it's public works i think we can get this map squared away and view very accurate real quickly ok thank you next map is nine point one ok now we're getting into the the meat of this subject this is the state land use and these are any changes in that mr napier know there's no changes we actually proposed to delete this map with a couple of others on the basis that they were just informational and salary data or or just to make decisions map to make decisions on the community plan maps i'm fine and it says right on there that it's for planning  fine with leaving it in there unless the department has a strong objection to taking it out just again so people can take a look if the department or corporation council don't have a strong objection i'm fine with leaving it in members concerns with that chairman yes if we are going to leave it in then i would say let's make sure we get the names right or what name are we missing i don't know what is i because we're pretty sensitive about it on money so do you know what that area is called i know i know what we call it but i would i would again you know we've had the services know i would tend to agree the u s geological survey is not always correct and we're happy to change whatever we got to change  that way agree other maps are church just to be yes just a comment further is there is actually a state board on geographic names h r is section four and it states that essentially the the names recommended by the state bar are the names to be used by state and i can appreciate that very much chairman i just hope to talk to the women because we all know whether it's on our island on this island molokai there's reasons why certain places i mean after a certain way and it has significance and my thing is we need to we've agreed to reckon there is that in the transit and we just  reason to delete this is confused it's a a little bit confusing with what is ultimately going to be the community plan land use map with all the different designations it's just i think you know it's hard to kind of switch back and forth and go what is this and and everything so we're just proposing that it just be removed in some cases simpler is better and this map will change to yes it already has changed we one little piece of presidential that i'm not sure for through yet second and final reading for the change in zoning on on one yellow spot to a red spot so members any objection to a do you want to leave it in or take it out i'm fine either way with that whatever the committee in the department would like to pu ok so that map we can will definitely has to pull out i still think the state urban land use boundaries is kind of important at this point ok nine dot three moving right along county zoning and this also can i think is blown up further oh yeah the little inset right  there this one department you're asking to pull out as well that's correct any comments mr hall comma members mr holcombe and i would just sit and read a department mind this is pretty much those areas that's a good understanding on the committees part i'm i'm sorry i'm as far is a nice concern but to project districts the city the more or less existing city then while you're looking at that and i would agree with you that we need to keep this the map in the state map definitely leaves and but this one i'm fine with removing as well this is the proposed community community plan land use this is the overview map that in each you can see that there are one two three four five detailed maps that i think this one is just kind of more of like a legend unless the department has something that they want to change but we really want to get into the details on the detailed maps mr napier no no changes on this map came members any changes ok here we go nine five from zero proposed law nice city land use detail we've seen this map several times members department any comments any changes no changes proposed new members this is where if we want to make any changes this is where we're going to do it mr holcombe a it appears through all the discussion that this area here this map is pretty much what you're what everybody's a in agreement with there's not too many concerns with this is that right i'm very supportive of this  and if you want to take a look at the map nine point one which is the state land use take a look at a couple places there that are listed as state rural i mean of state urban rural a little bit of a mixed right along in that area so just keep that in the back of your mind first of all department any changes to this map that you guys are recommending no ok mr  a just before you say your thing i just wanted to remind the members that this is the area that we were reminded by several testifiers both in writing and  in online that there was a tradeoff made between the ok go ahead and develop manelli bay and leave this area alone now that being said the sea pack was at sea back  mr molina the sea pack looked at this knowing that information apparently voted eight two to leave that in did you ever get a chance to look at the vote for and oh i plan to commission mr moon i haven't been able to locate that yet ok thank you so there's been discussion by the community to to leave this in as is but quite frankly i'm a little bit concerned about the agreement that was made so mr hall comma if you have any comments on that i green and earlier company plan review as well as then land owner moving forward it's a project district proposals for the county into the community  i would see if there wasn't consensus from the community that this area would remain open natural for regular hunting fishing camping cultural practices use it was what are you willing to give back to the community the community who won the north shore and so it's a tough fund you know some of the members of the c p a or ever younger people in the regenerations but these conversations in these agreements was made with i guess what would fund all retirees who were the active employees at that time of the island so you know i was there i represented the company nor what we discuss and had a general a consensus on that everything is in  writing i understand that it's nothing maybe legally bound but this with the principles of on are doing what he's poor and all right  i didn't need ten lawyers to verify that i was a good agreement and so again nice looking at the county and the landowner to do the walk is our word good is our agreements good we're going to fulfill what we said we were going to do we have an opportunity now to build confidence back in this community from two points from the landowner standpoint and from the county standpoint and so for me  that we have a decision and it can change regarding the desalination that i'm going to take i have no problem being more conservative and saying i don't have a problem eliminating this from the maps and let them come back because one thing  one of my concerns would be the infrastructure to get there and also if these two hundred fifty acres i think it's proposed fifty homes are there expecting services what  about police services what about fire services are we expected to provide those services way the heck out there and if so then we need a road there's concern about you know who owns the road right now what condition that road is in  i know i have a lot of concerns i would like to hear from the members on this one any concerns i still have the vote that says eight to two for the  recommendation to the full council on whatever happens with this map so with that in mind putting a couple blobs on a map does not alleviate all the questions that were just asked about are there going to be services are going to be a roadway how's the roadway going to be built how's access along the shoreline going to be preserved  you know all the environmental concerns and and i mean that's just by way of information all these things are not answered if this committee puts us on the map all these questions are answered when you go when you do that yes when you go to the state land use commission when you come to this council for zoning and that zoning is reviewed by lanai he planning commission and this property is also these properties are also located within the special management area alternately decision whether to build or not to build rest with that planning commission so that just by way of information and perspective it's probably if they started tomorrow just say it probably be ten years before there was a shovel put in the ground it's just that long of a process and that detailed in answering all the questions so anywhere along the line it could fail or it may proceed i don't know i guess mr spence the question i would have is if that's if that remains on there the net is that kind of we'll see your kind of letting us know that it might be ok to be there so there would that raise expectations i could see that as well and i could also see what mr hall comment was alluding to was that they could come back and propose to amend the community plan a mostly my comments are more for your information that this is if this committee decided to leave this on the map this is not a guarantee that this is ever going to be built there's a very long road ahead and all the questions about infrastructure and fire protection and police protection and water supply and all those things those all still have yet to be   this remains on the map it's for planning purposes only it's not a guarantee that anything to be built or not is still a long way to be vetted and more meetings with the community et members any thoughts about listening and hearing from the company and what their thoughts were when putting this in yes miss crawford thank you before we go there again this reminds me of the whole the poor point master plan and it was the community for that example to not have it written drawn colored in anywhere even though it had to go through the process pretty much yet the community felt a little more confident that it will go through work itself out but it wasn't just a proposal drawn in green light on a map even though if it was just it was just a proposal guaranteed it's going to go but people felt a little more comfortable if it's meant to be and they go through the process they will and they have the avenue so i know you're conflict here too as you know we get testimony that you know we're not listening to the community when we take things out and what not or put things in that they don't want and now we get an eight to two vote that says we discussed it we discussed it with the community they want it in and yet i agree with what what you say that we heard from mr hill comment we heard from other members of the community who were back there back then and were part of that agreement saying hey and as mr obama said minnelli wouldn't be there without them giving up this and it's not has nothing to do with the comfortable that when company is ready they have the proper channels to go through in order to make it happen and to get it vetted through community and the people and things of that nature so thank you and the other chair yes i located the vote from the lanai planning commission and it's meeting on january twenty eighth twenty fourteen on the commission afforded to remove map one point six and the related projects in chapter nine the motion field with two the affirmative and three in opposition to delete the maps two excused ok thank you so it was essentially a three to t vote to leave it in ok members we're running out of time but i would like for a five minute if we can do a five minute explanation from the company to see what's going on and what their  idea is if that's without objection ok if we can have mr much more to come down and just at the podium is fine afternoon good afternoon thank you chairman as i expressed the week prior you know we don't have any firm plans to move forward this was just part of a very and if some other part or all of this was removed you still have the opportunity to come back if if in the long term you feel that it's a viable project and you've got community by and you're willing to come back and go through the whole process and we understood that i would always be available to us ok because if we do remove it out of the process it's one more layer that you have to go through i don't think it's go their rural area kind of looks like hard to say but it looks like you're going to have to do their rural area anyway so you're going to have to go through these  i think i hear from everybody is that we're fine with removing all or part of this any suggestions mr holcombe has all the whole thing or just the rural or just the resort i mean in my mind at least removing the rural is as important don't know about the resort it's twenty acres i'm not sure what significance you have more  you know for me chairman i would from my perspective i would prefer to take it off the map and i log them f  removing this map from the whole plan and the subsequent layers that might be involved are you ok with it with that kind of action  because if we remove this map you also have to take it off of the bigger map that's correct ok any objections that ok thank you members map nine point seven we're almost done this one is pretty straightforward i don't see any i mean this is what everybody has agreed to anyway for a long time mr hall chama no i think the committee is very  any changes department no changes was saying to do members no objection if you go on to the next map date thank you thank you map nine point zero eight proposed manelli land use detail n after i shared my thoughts about how i didn't want us to get back to some kind of social eco financial strata in here on our alley and again i think  energized feelings on in our community that can appreciate and that is why i've been a strong supporter of the law and i see the expansion i want one community when i understand we have money really well up for project district serve the whole island so i you know i would like the island to continue to give more comment after i was able to share my thoughts about what i didn't want to have occur back on the island and that i think we can still do a very good development and good for a local people growth for a future employees within the existing project districts and with the city expansion i think we'll be ok for the concern and i share some of them i would like to hear from the community we are going to go back there we are going to have between now and and the time we go back there we're going to have operative ample opportunity for written testimony  the chairs inclined to because it went through both the clan and planning commission and the community plan advisory committee is inclined to leave it in and have the community ask us to remove it mr holcombe is not a hundred percent sure he wants to remove it so i'm more inclined to it's easier to remove something than it is to put it back in my opinion but it's also totally up to the committee which way you want to go on this one any thoughts if not that's the chairs recommendation is to leave it in and then get some feedback from the community and i'm sure mr saw the point of view of the pool of law and then but i also hear mr hall comment to and so i yeah i'm looking forward to further dialogue from community and to get their thoughts settled in to figure mr okama you had some concerns and anything else ok thank you thank you and map nine point nine and i believe that's the last map and i think mr okama you were mentioning that you are very supportive of this but i'd like to hear from your mouth but let's first find out department you got any proposed changes no we don't care ok mr okama chairman as they say to you and thank you once again for my me to share my thoughts they didn't for me and quite quite excited about this proposal i support put on muslim his efforts in this area this is a very active component of the comments so without objection will accept that perhaps that being said thank you very much members we've gotten through this we do have several items of discussion that we still have to go through  i do have a planned committee meeting on march fifth or or somewhere around that time i am asking that we go through this one more time just real quick in that meeting march fifth with the concerns that you have and some of the things it's should be a short meeting because we've got it only a few maybe we'll do that as go through this one last quick pass on march fifth before we go out to the community and at the same time if mr obama if you can get the community to come up with more testimony and will be we will be accepting testimony both written  ok with that members please go through the stuff that we talked about i'm not sure with that we'll have a committee report quick enough we may hopefully i don't know we aren't going to have a meeting on february eighteenth i will not be here i believe there's a council meeting that day as well so our next meeting is going to be march fifth and where we'll will just go through a quick review of everything that we had left hanging so is there any comments from the committee i want to thank the department for being here through this tough plan and we will do one more and then bring it out to be really i want to thank the company for being here and i want to think the folks the resource people and i am glad that they were able to be there for when we had questions so with that members this meeting is adjourn