that's cases first beginning with frederick street then fairview avenue and then we will turn to the single rest and see cases beginning with jason road and ending with chilton following that we have a number of other items including additional preparation for town meeting updates on cushing square and potential cases a review of the agenda and we have one meeting the is mr wheeler who be recusing himself from the first case is that correct that is correct i am i live two houses away from the applicant and so yes i'll be recusing myself i will remind the board to just about if you choose to continue make sure you take the vote on that to a date certain if you close make sure you take a vote just thank you for all the processes that's all good luck tacky on a scarf or two special permits under section one point five zero point four zoning by a lot to alter a non conforming structure and to maintain the non conforming side set back ten feet allowed six point one existing and proposed in order to construct a door eight dash ten frederick street and a general residence zoning district well yeah right we will we will follow the same order as we followed in other special permit cases will begin with a a statement the applicant should she or he wish to make one followed by comments from any neighbors and other residents who wish to comment on this application and following that will turn to questions and discussion  from the board if you are going to make a comment i ask you to go to the microphone and give your name before you start if you do not go for the microphone no one who  watching on cable will be able to hear anything you say and giving your name is six really helpful in terms of getting an minutes right afterwards floor of the house in apartment we have only one basket on which is a second floor but all of our bedrooms are on the sort of floor so therefore it really is difficult for us to go downstairs to use the bathroom middle of the night we have a i have spoken to the neighbors and explain them to project and i was able to collect seven letters from seven different families around me and i brought those letters all of them feet from the you know the property line i am very happy to answer any questions and again we have the pictures and drawings here thank you very much is there anyone here who wishes to speak to this application there of proposal patients correct please to the microphone and the architect of the project these are proposed but not existing existing would be your photos now actually everything is existing except the proposed dormer which is added on to it at the top but the rest of the building is existing to remain one of the dormers it says proposed dormer that's the only addition to the building right so i'm looking at the relations of the deck on the third floor exists there all the existing  unit correct so i was right it's just they're just there that was up on the second floor bedroom and there's no access at all or correct and walls that's one of them sheets and the set that would that provides you with the information that there is a stair set of stairs going up from the first to the second floor just for that bedroom which has no other access to  i think my this is a comment not a question the if we if we look back at what town meeting wanted us to do  amendment when this my love with passed for the general residence district it was supposed to control mass control traffic control density and therefore one of the questions that we ask about every single application is does this change make it more likely that in the future this will be converted into an ongoing air b n b accessory apartment et you provide two family where there was an only one family and so on and i have looked at these plans carefully and even i who have come to be a little skeptical about people's plans cannot see that this is likely to lead to a two family house in the near future at all i mean i i don't see anybody doing it right this is not likely to lead to a three family house at any age i mean adding a kitchen adding a bathroom a laundry room and a little storage space does not look like a route to a three family joe do you know i would agree i mean to give you a nice  was common as well i think the only thing that we generally ask for and given that this is a small a get a small addition is we would certainly want assurance that any landscaping that any landscaping that dies during the course of the construction will be replaced i didn't see well if there are no other questions and no other comment since you are doing so well in formulating that would it be appropriate if we will i'm just exploring yes yes i will see if there's anyone who feels there's additional discussion needed before i ask for it which come to think of it since you're up you might as well make  thought it was it was brief jeffrey until we managed and and with that we want to move to the second of the general residence hearing seventy family and you and mister public notice notices here by given that the belmont planning board will hold a public hearing on thursday april thirteenth twenty seventeen at seven pm in the board of selectme meeting room town hall for fifty five that avenue to consider the application of geoffrey america x men for two special permits under section one point five point four of the zoning bylaw to alter a non conforming structure  to maintain the non conforming side set back ten feet allowed for four feet five inches existing in proposed in order to construct a dormer at seventy fairview avenue in the general residence zone in district thank to make a small addition to the house to add some additional space at a bathroom and we've engaged with keith miller to help us put something together that we believe is something that will enhance criteria that's outlined for the size and shape of a dormer but looking at how it would affect the streetscape and the massing on the front of the house we felt that that really wasn't the right approach for the project and i was able to convince the admins that we should take endeavor to come to the planning board and look at an option where the dorm was placed on the rear of the house to that end we try to minimize the dormer as much as possible and achieve the goals of their space right now the head they have two bedrooms upstairs neither of them meet current building code they have six foot nine and ceilings and a lot of each space so they're trying to expand on that they're not adding any better at all they're also the same as the previous applicant trying to add a bathroom up stairs so that they don't have the same issues they only have about from downstairs right now they have no intentions of ever making a b n b with the space and if there's any way they could possibly do that one of the things that we looked at was i know that we talked we met when we first met with jeffrey during  working session we talked about possibly pulling the dormer off of the side of the building we currently robert have a stack gable on the east side of the building as we're on the corner the bedroom that we've created is ten by fourteen and if we slid it in that bedroom switches down your people in two feet off the end brings it down to an eight foot wide bedroom and we're going to a lot of effort to actually make a workable bedroom where they can put a bed and be in there and not hang their heads and actually have some workable closet space so we kept it on the corner and we did that the stack able to break  lacy and they're both in support of the project they had no issues and with it right now both of the houses have windows that face each other that are five feet away or ten feet away like many of the properties in that neighborhood they're well over the setback lines that were  properties were built this storm or would basically look at their roof so it's not affecting anything that they would be looking at either so we want to kind of go over that we looked at that auction front look at options on the back side and really just trying to create this be space and bathroom space that just makes the space work better for them thank you it's does anyone in the audience comment on this a commentary in her latest authorization from the neighbor who would be looking into the window ten feet away so from the inside section i believe that the aids rate even radio yeah they're trying to get a ceiling fan in there and i have really they've been living under you for twelve years and they really don't want to live under any of any more and going from a one in twelve flat roof pitch to a three in twelve brings it way down a lot and going to a two hundred twelve is still i'm going to be a membrane roof a three though i mean even if you put a ceiling even if you get a ceiling fan in there if the neighbors don't have an issue with it i don't have an issue either for me personally i think that i wish the pitch was down a little bit but if your neighbors are fine with it and you guys can get your house i mean i guess i'd say that would be my only comment about we discussed it in the boards the so this is these are on the order of questions for my colleagues on the board so you need not to say be saying to yourself mentally is there a question in there i will you know the first is that when it is a reasonably small it is a small lock and so that the lot size of her unit is sixteen hundred ninety square feet that is substantially below anything that you could get with age even with a special permit today so i always have some concerns about  adding mass and density when we're so far below prevailing special permit standards we are also looking at extremely high side said that it's four and a half feet is that so they began adding man this is a concern one of the things that we've that may may be something when we look at the degree of nonconformity that's present you know this is certainly a higher than the pace we've just heard and just the distinction between room and bedroom is a very difficult one to enforce in practice there is out just and there an additional issue there we're also over on public and i am really skeptical about the jeffrey unless you review the calculation of the open space and keeping in mind th driveways parking areas don't count as open cities i'm really hard put to see how you get to just below sixty percent here i understand these are dormers and do not impact the be so we currently use window air conditioners and what we were thinking about doing is having heat pump type of system put in possibly with a doctor or possibly t f the dome or to the right why why did you not just go in like a man like say a landslide two feet off the other side and doing so much work because of where the chimney is so if you look at me you come up the stairs and i see i see just right there are you talking about yeah yeah and also the other reason was you know in keeping things away from the streets that's another street front on that side so because of the chimney which would limit the size of the bedroom and because of the street location we felt that this didn't impact either of those streets were that corner so we moved it to the here i'm just going to the closet space that you have in the to the left of it so the reason that closets there is essentially now right now there's an when you come around the chimney to get into that bedroom you're basically ducking under any of you know i see that and by the right by extending the dormer a little bit further that way we make it so that you can walk into the room without having to dodge the all right we'll now move to the twenty nine case and wrote notice here by given that the belmont planning board will hold a public hearing on thursday april thirteenth two thousand and seventeen at seven pm in the board of selectmen meeting room town hall four fifty five concord avenue to consider the application of engine meow for two special permits under section one point five point four of the zoning by law to alter a non conforming structure non conforming lot size in your step back in order to construct a second story on top of the home greater than thirty percent of the existing growth floor area twenty nine jason road in a single residence to use owning district these  to leave for a long time we had to loudly girls please come to the microphone and give us your name and jeffrey do you have any comments you wish to offer you go up on the second story you're going to do which ing  on top of the existing windows and that ruffle my only comment would be if the material that you were going to use to answer that question and my other question would be in the rear it looks like you have t single doors stuck together is that is that meant to be like a six foot door is that to just try to understand that just flat yeah i think it's no i understand what you're doing so my question is is that if you look at that ok if you look at the treatment of that there is there's like it's vertical executives shingle  make square that off is going to be a true gable is they're going to be an overhang those are my questions because i think you did a really nice job except for the entryway and i can understand why you want to cover the entry but the entryway kind of doesn't go with what you've done  keeping i agree i think that the house is overpowering size is fine i also wondered a little bit about some of the details of the materials and i couldn't tell and maybe you can answer this question you know whether when this is built  is it safe to assume that the windows are really going to match up and kind of the framing around the windows as it is it's drawing here i just couldn't tell if we're going to see consistency from four one to floor two or whether it'll look with a look like one complete house or based on the materials are you going to use particularly on the windows and any kind of detail around the windows whether it's going to look them my comic my only home would be just following up on more power second please feel free to chime in but i think overall it's great but i think that you need to add a lot of detail to the drawings  specify some stuff focus on your existing house it looks like you have shutters on the ground floor and i don't know if they're vinyl or if they're real but i'd love to know if if you're going to put  windows ok and what you're going to propose to casing around the windows because i imagine they're going to be cased and then if you're going to do corners like the corner boards you should call that out on the prince you should also target carlo that you're going to be doing which ingles on the p e and we should probably just maybe just clean up the front entryway a little bit ok clean up that sliding door on the back yes and then i think i could be could put my perspective  some joy you captured it for me i mean it's more details in terms of what materials are and how that will look as you run your edition almost this i'm not clear whether or not you can be changing the this is not a major issue but it i think if it is something we need to get clarity on the minor thank goodness we have passed i think that it was contemplated that if you had one floor and in less they were special circumstances of extreme of small it's small lots of people wanted to go up one story that's it that was something yeah the single residency zoning contemplated allowing people to do and that's what you've done i did want to make one comment about the  understand that one can always pick and choose amongst the neighborhood but really that has no impact on the way the board thinks of it if you we have had a number of applicants who wanted to do the calculations themselves we have many count applicants come before us who are people of great analytic and quantitative talent but you simply have to use the neighborhood as defined by the planning board you cannot choose eighty houses t and having everything tied together to reach me for a landscape plan so my suggestion would be we continue this hearing so that you can tie the package up neatly i think where we're in agreement that this is basically acceptable but we need to tie up some of the loose and would people be comfortable with that i would be yeah i think the devil's in the details so you can get the details  risky to continue with you may second with the thought that we would do this very quickly before the belmont a school hearing opened if that if you think that is realistic in terms of getting the additional see you on the second thank you and but if that proves to be impractical please let jeffrey know is here by given that the belmont planning board will hold a public hearing on thursday april thirteenth twenty seventeen at seven pm in the border selectman is meeting room town hall for fifty five concord ave to consider the application when she for a special permit under section one point five point four of the zoning bylaw to alter a non conforming structure non conforming lot size and side setbacks in order to construct a two story addition at the rear of the home for the second story on top of the family room all greater than thirty percent of the existing gross floor area at seventy two children street and a single residence see zoning district thank you and speaking for the applicant neighborhood and an understand that it hasn't been rehabilitated and some time in its due and i also definitely understand the need for the family to have more room and sympathetic to that my concern is that the proposed expansion is going to bring this house as according at least to the calculations that the applicant has submitted to the top of the total living area that if i have one brick it will bring it right up to the top right now it's it's just pulls back to the eight three which is the other corner of the actual corner of the house so these are the numbers that are on the proposed plot plan or not accurate  starts making me ask questions about how the t l a was calculated and i'm wondering whether or not another question in here is there is a porch on the first floor and there's a porch on the second floor and i wonder if those were included in t l a or not and that that that's a yes or no and then i have a like an answer to that because i have a follow up for it so so the question is where was where the are you considering those forces in the t l a or are not perhaps jeffery get jeffrey's clarification and then the yes so the it's the front side back is not change it's going to be this porches aren't considered in t l a the houses already the proposed addition will make the house quite large and if the porch is aren't included in that calculation the opportunity to enclose those porches well even more broadly expand the house and so are i would be a little bit concerned about that i guess my main concern is that this is going to be a really big house relative to the neighborhood that's all bylaws there is a list of things considered and family size is not the basis for any allowance and the application of the by law it simply is not limited that day because that's going to take off some square footage is actually going to bring your number down you're not going to lose any interior space but we're going to be more comfortable knowing that there isn't more potential interior space down the road if that was ever enclosed which you could easily be cause because in my mind it is a roof over it so to me it's easy to build walls but windows and you know if you're an architect it's it's not that difficult th my perspective and you can make it a little bit more comfortable you don't i understand that you come here you're looking to make the house bigger i totally understand that and it's always going to be a high point but i think that the at all but a future use of that space can be quite generous in terms of lending itself to log in and space for the needs met so can you give me some details of what you can use i'm not understanding storage rooms and in a two hundred you have the same the same drawing with the addition of a walk all of course storage room so you maintain and i understand you'll be doing an foundation well you could do a five foot frost while there have a foundation wall that basically becomes unusable in the basement maybe i think some members of the board a little more comfortable knowing that there isn't more yeah so i think what we're proposing would work here you'll say for the money to do it i think that would work that would work in terms of the basement but i just want to be clear here that there are there are a number of concerns the basement that easily converted into an accessory apartment is one that simply the size of it is relative to the neighborhood because again we look at these things in relation to the planning board defined neighborhood and this does push it into the top quadrant and thirdly there's just some confusion about the numbers here that we would need that we need to get go through the end of you want to come at the end what liz is talking about is where the first things that we take a look at is we look at all mass size in terms of you project it in terms of the neighborhood that's what we're talking about talk about all the neighborhood things that is joe off and talk we talk about architecture in details too to help make what you're proposing work in conformity with the neighborhood then we have issues in terms of the use of the project and as we were talking about in the basement and things and then specifically there are some details in the drawings and the building that's going to be built that we're unclear about and those need to be that the materials and that kind of things he's to be clarified and the last thing is we'd be remiss if we didn't tell you i don't see it in the document here i just might have missed at some point we're going to ask you for a landscape well yeah and that and you should know about that now rather than come back to us and not have that so you should have an existing landscape plan and you should have a landscape plan afterwards which of are proposing we suggest having seen people come to us before that you have a professional landscaper do that and my final comment as i know this is just a small thing if you notice the plans that you probably didn't see this on the plans that we had before and it's not necessary at this point the plans have been stamped these aren't stand so keep those in mind knowing and closing i just i you're obviously going to come back and from my perspective speaking just for me i think you get up you get off to a really good start i really appreciate the way you paid attention to your roof li here and you're making this building look like just a bigger version of what you have that the symmetry everything works really well you did a really nice job i think the if you listen to what was said and maybe go back and watch it again i think that you can get to where you want to be and really enhance the neighborhood the year in and certainly improve this particular house that you're living in right now but as my colleague just said chuck just big tension to the process and i and i think you can get there i don't think you're far away the last thing we want to do is a board just to discourage you from doing what you're trying to do and ultimately what you want your family  so any is what i think what we've tried to do is to go through and look at the issues where they're sunset clauses so they did it's highly likely that the town that the new town meeting members will be voting on these issues if there are any thoughts about additional issues that are very likely to come before town meeting that would be great and it is in our favorite venue the art gallery so if anyone can come that would be great right and with that let me move along to adam for prepare for the count meeting jeffrey i don't have fair to give chuck a victory lap on that one but that we wanted him to assure us that the version of the document that we received indeed it was something that he had reviewed and i don't know if there were any further nonce substandard grammatical changes you kno whether you were comfortable with whether the exclusions section page three was in your view sufficient everything everything we had we want to along with the definition that that that was because we discussed that but our thought was that we needed to be very specific in things and the exclusion it has everything that we wanted everything that we said before so we're very comfortable with that and they actually i think  it it was nice to have three attorneys who are experienced in these things working for us on this and they were very good and i think it and it is in your view clear from the language that for example an addition to a historic structure doesn't fall under  you just better not take anything down to do your this is a i mean this is very liberally in terms of what you may do to the come and they go to the i believe this begins when it goes to the the building department the building department looks at this and if it's on the list it will go to the historic district commission who will take a look at the building and will take a look at the section of the building that they are proposing to remove and then the h d c makes a determination if it is part of the historically significant part of the building or not if if it is not part of the historically significant part of the building the demolition goes ahead if it is then you then you go through the process you and it is actually fine if you take the time to look at this and if you raise if you raise questions like you just referred barbara just raised the question there those will be questions that may well come from the floor and w better to be prepared by our friends than surprised by our enemies yes yes yes yes to the part of the building that put it on the list or is it the part of the building that nobody really cares about and do they have a time frame within which they have to that yes they have to think of three days it's fairly soon  you have a house here ok then they build things on those are not historical ok ok or they may they may infringe on part of it but those we have talked about you should be able to take those down if they don't affect the historic part of the building that's what this is about and you know it's almost like it's i don't know that it's constructive in that weighed almost makes this like it's it's like these houses that are going to go on this list like almost become historic in nature because it seems like there's a good bit of however if you well if it could be taken by the historic district commission to tell most control what happens to someone's within the historic structure and that's what we mean specifically here and this is is this is part of the exclusions and this is deliberately in line with the other parts here where we're talking about you can take off the porch you can do the entryways and the whole argument that that we had on those things so what this actually means and that and the intent of this is that if you're taking off things that are not part of what's the stork you know matrix or for centuries the building character character of the building ok then those can go those can buildings being living parts of the community and we change and we specifically this exclusion cut out here is deliberately set you know telling you here's the things that aren't part of this they are part of this they are part of this you can do this and this and that so two point one is and i think to some extent the ship h sailed i mean we've had a discussion on the engine yes this infringes on the rights of private property and it does it for me the whole point of bringing it to town meeting is that we will collectively decide by a two thirds majority that the benefit to the community outweighs the rights of the individual property owners and the deaths the that's the core of this i  share your discomfort with the there is some disconnect between the the care with which the story determination was made in dating an outside expert and so on and the ability the unilateral ability of the commission to then decide some addition which is not clearly called out hypothetically in the consultant report is his start jeffery in in i can recall because i haven't looked at it in a bit but in the consultant report the  article styles and the town in various neighborhoods that are of significance but the bigger piece that she did which is what the list is based on is the development in filling out of all you know the style of the house when it was built who the ownership was additions ever made over a period of time if there were any and lays that all out and that was those forms  that it's what state that stayed within the that will give them the basis for their discussion that's going to the beginning yes yes definitely and you know again we we need to move along but i think when we when we vote this one of the things we may want to consider doing and if we want to consider doing it we should certainly discuss it with law and before him is to ask this clarifying question at town meeting so that there will be a transcript yes that you regard as the answer yet and we can also go back and take a look at what this looked like before it first went to the  something by our meeting with you we have just moved in may meeting i would really expect to see something from them at our second main meeting  yeah i wasn't i wasn't i would and my i was i was suggesting that they really need to go through the neighborhood process first and when they get that feedback and really deal with that first before i'm always can  we've had a lot of experience recently bring neighborhood meeting has a significant impact on how how successful a public hearing goes and that there could be depending on what is discussed at that hearing at that meeting can be gr later if we agree that the neighborhood meeting should proceed any presentation to the planning board then we need at the next meeting to look at our permit and lines and make sure that we have not put the yes for those it will be in the archaeology so for those who come on the twenty six you can just consider making it your second home i them six preview agenda for the next meeting i think is pretty much set my thought would be that we should start  we'll see where jasper is adjacent rather and but that then we should start with the belmont days and all because i think week before the last mean it wasn't clear how many people would come to speak on each of the two i think it's now clear there will be many more people coming to speak and bottom line and therefore we should let them come and speak right and not make them wait for half an hour forty five minutes to speak and we'll have it hear them a second yeah yeah