hello everyone and welcome to the nov twenty one twenty seventeen meeting just to clarify before we get started all the items under new business to have an asterisk those items you are able to come forward and speak on those items there will be a five minute time limit limit per person and one time at the podium during the public hearing when i specify when that time for you to come forward we do have a timer and there are three lights underneath here right ok and when it what color is the one where you have one minute left yellow ok ok when one minutes left and it will turn yellow all right calling to order an approval of the minutes for the october ten twenty seventeen meeting so moved support i was in favor both next i am communications from the audience this would be a time where you come forward to speak to something that is not listed as a public hearing on the agenda so that would be time now to come forward to speak on something that's not listed as a public hearing on the agenda hi my name is dominic class and i live at one thirty nine west twentieth and i would like to make some remarks regarding the proposed homeless shelter at one seventy three  represent a group of concerned neighbors and we've collected sixty eight signatures against this proposal and it's for a number of reasons do you want that list of signatures ok the first reason is because the attitude towards the neighbors we were brought in late into the process and when there was finally a meeting called there was clearly antagonism toward us we were called spiritually bankrupt if we disagreed with this proposal we also thought it was odd that miss gray contacted the news to announce this before we were brought into the process at all there's also been a lot of talk about not in my backyard and i find this interesting that the people who are saying this it's not in their backyard it's an ours we also find we all at that meeting would also concerned us is when miss grace said well we're not offering twenty four hour care so we might not have to get it rezoned anyway went on her facebook page for the house of lords grace she said that they will be providing twenty four hour care there's also plenty of discussions about bethany being a partner with her and from my discussions with bethany bethany was never an official partner and bethany is no longer on board with this project and so i think the neighborhood deserves some information regarding who will actually partner with house of lord's grace in addition there were a lot of questions in terms of logistics and we were not given satisfactory answers a lot of them will see or it's in the packet or it's in our byelaws and these were not presented to us as community members there's also an idea of promoting stable neighborhoods  serve at a church on the north side of holland but live on the south side of holland and i chose to live in this neighborhood because of its proximity to parks washington square walking distance to downtown the farmers market for plenty of things and when i signed up and signed my sign my mortgage it was to sign up for a certain to sign up for the neighborhood as it is with imagine fellowship as a church at the corner not a homeless shelter and i'll tell you if it was that we probably would not have bought the house and this is also kind of a personal thing because i think the neighborhood deserves some answers regarding the acquisition  property as well i served for holland classes the former owner of a mansion fellowship and was purchased for three thousand dollars in good faith that it would be a church and if you were to look at the public tax records of that property since miss grey parsons house of lords grace of purchase purchased it you will see that it is cross hands back and forth several times between an entity known as one third partnership and one third partnership has never been a part of any of these discussions either on facebook or in the newspaper or in any public hearing and so i think we deserve to have answers about their relationship especially since a very basic search shows that one third l l c took out a mortgage on the property before transferring it back to house of the lords grace i think we need some answers on these issues and so  kind of sum it up i serve at a church with a long history with a long history of serving the poor a long history of serving the underprivileged and it's needed and it's c three out of our church known as neighbors plus dedicated soley to helping those who are less fortunate and he signed the petition saying that we believe that this is a problem but this is not the solution to the problem that neighborhoods of last resort thank you very much hi there minister susan gray here from the house of lords grace and i would just like to respond to some of those issues first of all i did come to the community at the ground level i did not seek out necessarily the holland sentinel but they sought me out and we were on the ground level of making our plans and so there have been some unfortunate misrepresentations as far  as some phrase eola gee that has been left to question when there's been a direct quote that's misquoted and so forth so i will address those with anyone who would like to personally speak to me about that the twenty four hour care issue was in response to just some general discussion for instance we can offer twenty four hour care however the children are in school for a great amount of those hours there are times every weekend where the children will be at the community pool or done at a skate ministries so we can offer twenty four hour care but does that make sense we don't have to offer twenty four hour care and my response was if that changes how we address zoning then i would like to do that i'm not an attorney i don't tend you know i don't claim to analyze city ordinance as an attorney would so we're still in the state of communication with the zoning board in the planning commission as to say you know if there are zoning considerations if we are twenty four hour care what does that look like if there are a zoning considerations if we're going not twenty four hour care should we recategorize i'm coming to you and asking those questions we don't have to be written in stone one way or another so we are in very much the planning stages we do legally have to partner with a child caring excuse me a child placement agency this would be part of the licensure law for this type of residential unit so whether that is bethany christian services in the future whether that is like a some merit it is not possible for me not to go through a child placement agency this is not a residential unit that i plan on managing myself we have to have a child placement agency who would train everyone working there that would be drug tests for staff as well as for residents so this is not my expertise as far as i'm not a social worker i would not be running this residence that would be run by staff hired by bethany christian services or another child placement agency now bethany christian services did provide a letter of partnership to us they still are involved however they have stepped back because this is such a political problem here and so they have donors that they have to be responsible to and i respect that we have a small segment of donors in holland michigan and everyone knows everyone so they need to protect their interests so we've chosen to move forward after the zoning process is finished i think that's responsible i think it's ok so that shouldn't be a negative thing it's just that the policy manual at as we continue to work on that will continually change and we will submit that as things go forward as far as the collapses is concerned i still am very submits to the authorities of the hauen classes so the c r c and some of those pastors are my mentors and the church is still in existence and now we've just opened our doors as the church so we do have a church services in fact we go down to the holland missions and pick pick people up for our services and serve a meal with service so the church will continue as a church i'm not approaching zoning as a side stepping measure we can we will always keep the saying sure we'll always keep the church but we will service the homeless we will offer the homeless a church and services i'm not particularly speaking to the shelter piece just being respectful to the homeless offering a warm meal offering change of clothes and so we want to miscarry thank you anyone who like else would like to come forward for an item that is not listed as a public hearing on the agenda they can do so no that's a lot of it hi good evening my name misty cecil's and i work for the area intermediate school district i spoke with our superintendent pete haines to make sure that i could come here representing a area intermediate school i'm the homeless grant corps nater for our county and part of allegan county what i do for that job is i work with each of the school districts in our area including holland and west data to help fulfill the needs of the students that we have attending those districts part of their role as well is as the corner is i hear a lot of the stories and frustrations from each of the liaisons in each of the districts as to the biggest issue is where they're going to sleep at night for some of these students we have over a thousand students in in the two allegheny county schools that are considered homeless  holland i'm not going to give their actual homeless count but for last year out of their whole count their unaccompanied youth which would mean that there without a parent or guardian or legal guardian part of that sixteen point eight percent of their overall count of their students were actually unaccompanied so they did not have a parent or someone to go home to for west shadow of that same percentage was fourteen point six so when we think about in general hearing part of your comments earlier this afternoon about let's just find other places for them to go there are no other places for the i'm to go  to a county we do not have a shelter for teens and adam a county they're just going to say again we do not have a shelter for teens and at what county and i know that scary for some i know that's scary for some people who might live next to where the shelters going to go i've worked with barnabas ministries the last couple years to help get their shelter built that's out in the zealand holland area as well  it's frustrating because the funding isn't coming through for that either and again we don't have a place for teens to go i give a lot of credit to susan for bringing this to the forefront and finding out what the greatest need is in our community for kids that are homeless and this is it this is what we need if you think about where else with these kids go think about that for a second where else would they go some of the other shelters that we have if you're thinking well they would just go to another shelter no they do now that the other shelters the center for sorry the women's shelter for her and rescue mission does not take boys on their own and rescue mission men shelter do not take teen boys on their own so again there is no place for them to go so they end up on the streets or they end up who knows where so when we think about the fear of having this residential home for these teens the other option is that these teens are roaming the streets looking for a place to stay and that doesn't look good either and they're not safe and they're not protected and they don't have anything and they're probably not going to school because of that so i just wanted to kind of just give the perspective of from the school district i hear these stories every single day and again the biggest thing that is concerning is housing there's no as you guys know as a planning commission there's not a lot of affordable housing to begin with in this county  the closest place for teens to go is the bridge in grand rapids and just a quick thing for that effect if a teen does decide to go there and can possibly get there the schools have to pay for their transportation so that puts puts a very large burden on the schools for transporting that child back and forth to the bridge in grand rapids at this point that is their only option so i appreciate your time thank you so much thank  you moving on to the next item unfinished business and tabled items there is none new business to be one east eighth street fields fabrics rezone rough shape we'd like to put a message board to replace the current message board the new message board would like to update to a more of a digital type would not be a video type of sign or a moving type of sign only be electronic message board sign rather than the manual type that we have now we did request a very has to be able to do this but that was denied so we'd like to do it just possibly requests the possibility of moving the line over from one side of our lot to the other side of our lot so we can actually do this we don't believe that we are really part of downtown  a number of reasons one reasons that we're much closer to the city line that we are the center of city and another reason would be the sign welcoming people downtown as a block for the don't road from us and in the sea another reason would so and i'm not requesting for the whole block to be rezoned just our property which on the line of course so anyway we'd like to be able to do this and we believe it would be an improvement for the probably body and it would not and question oh yes public hearing on this item i'm sorry the next step in this is the public hearing if anyone would like to come forward on this item they can do so now be c three this particular property specifically in this area of about ten years ago because as as that designated gateway into the city and the city does have plans to increase that of parents that they gateway welcoming people into the city from this corridor the figure below is showing the twenty seventeen master plan  as you can see it was determined that that this property would be part of the central downtown whereas across the tracks would be more of an essential service area c to more like  that's just something to keep in mind and one last thing it is this did go to the downtown development authority because it is in c three and they also recommended or they recommended that it not be res yes ok just clarification i know that they have a digital sign any questions or commons discussion from commission so yes so the master plan just was approved last year and this was all assessed and analyzed and the decision was that we should have consistent signage all throughout distinct more more like downtown type development area so not have flashing lights not have neon lights not have to have the electronic more kind of keeping more of what the traditional historic nature of the downtown currently the building feels fabric that's there has a large parking lot in the front so it doesn't look like the downtown in my opinion i don't know if anyone else feels that way but it's it's quite a different lot it would have to change drastically by a different owner to look more like the downtown scene long john silver's doesn't look like don't don't that's not going to be there much thank you for your business i next item letter b site plan review for five east eighth street form friend is the applicant for their c three eighty ramp roof structure is a representative from one friend here main elevator the elevator comes down to the back to back parking lot in most residents that do drive walk out the back and if they need assistance down or something they have to take the steps down there is and there was no ramp there before but there was a five or six steps leaning coming out to the parking lot with a roof over it we presently took the roof off can get to the steps without having a slippery area and then the other the other issue that they were dealing with also was they come down the main elevator with gurneys or stretchers or whatever then they would have to wheel them through the dining room through the living room and help the front door so if anybody did pass away or if anybody did have to go to the ambulance they would always have to go through the main area in order to get through the building so what we're proposing is to this be able to use the ramp with the porch over the whole you know covered porch they don't have the problems of slipping or ice or anything like that so that's what we're proposing and the materials are similar the materials the brick is all going to be the as close as we can match the roofing was shingles on the on it before so they're going to do shingles they're going to do a maintenance free what they what they had no the door right now is very heavy bombing a lot of the a lot of the residents have a problem open the door so this would be assisted assisted door so it opens for them and they don't have to try to pull it open by themselves so all right thank you very much any questions for the applicant know ok thank you at this time this does require a public hearing which i will hold right now if anyone would like to come forward on this item is open ok i will close the public hearing discussion questions comments from commission members i work for hospice in holland so i those in favor i pose great thank you very much next item plan review for hudsonville ice cream three forty five east forty eighth street for a silo alcove an extra silo and just here to follow up any questions that don't gina had on her review of the project its record do you see the screen yes ok if you want to just speak to that addition on the gina mentioned it's about six hundred twenty six feet as far as the t v of the actual building itself and that it has the four silos that are built around it that have l codes that are serviced from the interior corridor  the same height as kind of a place holder for how high they're going to be compared to the existing building and others whom comments about some of the landscape screening there are five trees are right up against the building of which the northernmost one would need to be removed for the placement of this addition there are three evergreens that are out in the green area where we're going to be putting the  other side of the railroad tracks to the to the west you know we would be taking out those three evergreens or those want to be put a little further out in that same greer area or they want to be put to the west of the trees to be transplanted there have three new ones out there to kind of maintain the same amount of screening that's on the building right now because we're looking for some direction from you folks on what you want to see that would scream like that is ok well specifically specifically we would just need a landscape plan so you could propose now as you know something that that wasn't in the package ok so you can propose what you're thinking and then we could give you feedback but that would just be a condition of that that you know from what three like evergreens out further west of the border trees that are their own you know at least those three border trees and for acquired by you folks an additional on nine there were green tree further out and that would be the same size apologize for that note not getting taken off of the notes up above we submitted something in that got taken off the table but are you proposing any additional lighting no any other questions for the applicant right thank you at this time i will open a public hearing on this item and i will close the public hearing any questions comments or discussion from commission members develop the initial phase the five thousand square foot for kids in this research your site plan also sold as a possible future expansion we wanted to provide that for clarity and understanding that this is intended to be the initial building with a potential for future expansion dependent on market conditions and overall requirements as far as their industry the staff conducted a review of the site plan we receive review comments  around noon today and i'd like to go over those conditions that worst have least by the staff for clarification there are review letter indicates that we've got to confirm the inverter elevation of the twenty seven inch pipe outlet in first strong water from this site that will be done didn't have time this afternoon to go through and verify that secondly a working in the right way permit will be applied for and obtain before any initiation of construction par two point five square feet of landscape bed of the revised print in my apologies to jenna it was forward to mark about twenty minutes before your study session we had just completed so general you will have the revise planes in the morning we are showing bear with me as i look up the plan seven hundred twenty nine square feet of landscaping bad so that has been revised in amended to meet with his own ordnance they also required in additional canopy tree along russell court that can be tree has been added and is indicated on the landscaping plan around or to control for any inflow or contamination and be fully accessible by the city for monitoring we have also revised the location of our water service we are in we will not be in need of fire protection for this building due to the fire code provisions things like that but we will need an inch and a half water service serving building that is being relocated to an existing heating stub off the city water mean that lies in the central portion of the proposed parking lot the b p double will be conducting the tap all that is indicated on the prince a that should handle any concerns that the staff review bought up other than the need for an address the address seen will be requested once we have site plan or approval and also to keep oxman occasion fire department access we will coordinate that between the architect and the fire department the properties that are located within the airport buffer zone which let me a picture right there so everything that is within this bubble has been coming to you  dictated certainly staff goes through those reviews it makes certain even when it is coming to planning commission make certain that is interfering with the west regional i'm sorry the west michigan i have a little bit of time to making the planning commission reports it certainly will save you some time as well again just to streamline the process and make a table for staff to review and good evening my name's pete last and i'm a lamb planner with progressive a v and grand rapids michigan representing the the developer this is one tom pohlmann one of the developers for the project just a little bit of a background we were before you in a study session on october town last month to review the site plan and give you some detail on the site planning in the buildings what what we have tonight before you we've done some obviously we've hardened up the site plan and we did one slight modification  just through architectural planning we were still able to get our numbers to make the project financially work but we did remove one building and you can see that in the southeast corner of that and turn that into green space really of possible sports field or a open area just through some market research in anticipation of the fact that we're going to have a lot of families here and the numbers still work we decided that that may be most prudent to add to the to the green space that's already there i think that it's an added amenity i think to to to make that project a little more attractive so as you know this this project is phase two of of a larger p d that was approved back in two thousand and five kensington place so this is really the first real burst of activity into a different housing type in this piece and you know obviously the economy hit us pretty hard right after two thousand and five so this is sort of a reawakening and we're pretty excited about the project because it does bring some needed multifamily housing to to this part of town i don't think collen seen any real major apartment projects within the city limits for quite a while so we think that's quite positive so the the example on the screen is the architecture these are twenty four units three story buildings a combination and the colors a little different these aren't  you know your traditional what you see the more of the beige or light brown boxes but we really wanted to bring in some in some color in the in the navy blue and perhaps the brown and in a cream color for the for the  as far as the original site plan or the site plan that we did if you can maybe scroll back down to that as you know the the overall project was designed in a neo traditional fashion and in keeping with the overall theme of the development we kept those design principles intact which basically means the buildings on the street with a parking tucked behind and we saw an opportunity there to rather than have one large parking lot we reduce that to do smaller lots and then a portion of the apartments have the option of having covered parking as well and then are as you can see there's a very strong access to the east and west and north and south to a to a centrally located community building with the south facing pool volleyball court which is kind of the athletic complex and gathering spot for for the development and we thought that that would work out really well in that location so traffic always being a concern right now kensington curb cut approved in and make that connection all those utilities are going to be lying within that corridor or so as far as the attila days everything is there its size to accommodate the development and then as far storm water there's a storm water pond just to the north and a little bit to the west of this that was designed to take on the whole development so that sort of the utility story there  then landscaping i mean we follow the ordinance we'll have extensive landscaping we want some screening particularly on the on the west or on the east side of the project there are some existing evergreens there that we you know so i really it's a better option we give everybody credit for that because they tell me i can do you know it's a it's a good thing for families and it's a good thing for you know really the market you know because it of depends on the construction numbers at the end of the day and the square footage yeah oh i'm sorry square footage is roughly nine hundred square feet per unit yeah on average on average on average three bedrooms being a public hearing on this item if anyone like to come forward  and make this taller it'll still catch your voice to my name is keith friends i live in phase one of kensington place our guests are neighbors neighborhood concern isn't as much about the apartment so you could recognize the need i think we saw th second phase of the site plane coming in but there are a couple issues we face that were very small community that is not sidewalk by them building main street in the kensington place we now have the potential of hundreds of cars coming through the back door to get into that facility the opportunity to come down fifty sixth down one forty third and come into the back vs fight through the two truck stops the mcdonald's the traffic lights the overpass all of that we're going to see a huge amount of traffic crossing in front of really about seven or eight houses including kids who ride their bikes in the neighborhood moms or walk their kids in there because we do not have sidewalks completely sort biggest issue is by them being able to come all the way through we're going to see a huge change in the community which may not be for the better or again argument is not about the purpose of selves we recognize it's also going to bring potential four to five hundred additional people who will want to walk through the neighborhood because they're not going to want to walk down the street out to i'm forty they're going to come into kensington phase one so there are some issues that we know as a neighborhood that we have to say so and we're going to deal with that the biggest issue we face is the traffic we already get trucks whose g p s takes them through there but they can't get through there of course because there is no road that they ride over the curbs over the grass to try to get turned back around now they don't have to anymore they will be able to go all the way through so we would really encourage the developer to look at is there another option to find a ok or perhaps planning commission would be ok with allowing the commercial sites that will eventually come through via a later phase to be responsible for the sidewalk i was in place and quite honestly what's going here is exactly what we stood before him you guys here a long time ago and as pete so eloquently spoke with the economy and everything else it's taken a little longer than we had hoped but you know key friends and the rest of the group in there we just had in so c h a meeting a week ago in preparation for this and we're trying to assure them that what we're doing here is going to be a class operation and it's not my project it is these folks behind me but our goal is as this develops with it which was the plan of the city planning commission to begin with was to have multiple types of housing you know what i'm going to cut you short yes the public hearing is still open and if you could address carl's question and the faintest signs for no just you know what i think if the city were to allow i think it be a great idea to have no trucks out by the entrance of one forty third as well as  you know where main street will come in now i think it would have to go to the end of where the commercial lots will be because as those commercial buildings get developed there's going to need to be deliveries to those so i  will have to discuss that afterwards but i think ok all right but this is we're talking about the new entrance off of them forty right you know the entrance off of one forty th this isn't really something that that we've considered i'm sure that we could work with the developer ok in the future i think that there are they're open to something  also looking with brian why that city engineer as to what other other aspects we could do ok because the seems like a need that came up after the development was there not knowing that it could be an issue so  and i think with our natural development heading to the west with more residential single family that direction you know the other piece that that we're bringing in right now with the multifamily the young professionals  they move get a job they have a place to live they eventually get married they have children if we're keeping our development up to the west our goal is it's going to be a feeder system there and i think it will both of them hands each other with the senior housing to the north i think we're getting exactly what kensington place was designed to be originally great just for thank you for your own way of keeping track of your body right sounds good good thank you the public hearing is still open if anyone else would like to come forward on this item was jeff smith i'm from eight hundred seventy eight i'm forty which is the feed mill office which is right adjacent to main street remains she is going to go in to support this but the question and the concern we have is the traffic going and we're talking about a lot of vehicles trying to get around him for the soul i think that's that should be a huge concern for the planning commission i've seen people die in forty i don't need to see that rate my office is going to over look certainly safety will be will be a concern will be looked at fresh air many studies have been done in that quarter correct they have but just our last meeting we we discussed different options for him in terms of having a light there perhaps on all of the time bribes yeah i mean blinking for some of the time but but i can't really speak to those engineering us i'm going to continue with the public hearing at this time if anyone else would like to come forward hello my name is wilson cracked and i and the resident two want to one kensington my wife and i moved in this is actually our first home we lived in an apartment complex prior to this and personally i've lived in an property plan is proposed i must say that had we known this going into this community which our house was probably on the market for up to upwards of three months with no bids we couldn't figure out why after the inspection everything looked great if this was something that we would have known about we probably would have not gone to this community we thought this was sort of a gold mine if you will compared to a lot of areas in holland that we looked at and that it's very secluded it's very peaceful one thing that we noticed in the summer is that people families with children there are no parents around and that's not a bad thing i'm not saying that to say that parents are watching their kids but the kids were roaming freely in these neighborhoods or in this community of ours and my neighbor who just sold his home after this took place lived there for over twelve years told me gone are those days or the children of this community can roam freely because the traffic will increase there will be from what it sounds like you know maybe i can ask the developer this doesn't sound like there are there will be things you can curtail potential speed issues which i've experienced in my time living in apartment complexes and this is nothing to do with people or the people who live in apartment complex excuse me complexes i recognize the need for housing and for  for people to have a place to call home but i've experienced quite a bit in these types of complexes and i just have to admit that i'm very very concerned and not only that but this is somewhat in our backyard i'm glad someone brought up sidewalks i think that's a huge issue i'm curious to know if there will be things like speed bumps and stop signs i'm also curious to know about well that's actually something more for leasing so i won't go there on that one but i just wanted to express that i'm opposed to this not because of the people but just because of the fact that you're not only taking away the green space which i think it's somewhat interesting that yes it's great that there's one less building and there's maybe applause for adding green space but in the grand scheme of things you're taking away a lot thousands of square feet of actual green space so i may disagree with that applause but again my main concern and i think a lot of neighbors a lot of people in that community have put their houses up for sale again my neighbor who sold their home is that i think things will definitely increase as far as traffic speed i'm not necessarily opposed to the intermingling of the community or whatnot but i think maybe for the people who pay the way how will that be influenced what will it do to our value of our home our property taxes which are already very high in that area these are all just concerns that i hope  are addressed or at least brought to light for our community that we live in phase one i understand there's again the need for a phase two i get that now and it's going to be great for them i'm sure but what exactly does this do for us in phase one that's the those are my concerns thank you you thank  gena was this whole plan brought before the planning commission in the early two thousand the entire yes the entire area was it was all approved as a phased plan trying to find that all that first their first plan development plan however all of this was was approved for these phases and multifamily phase was part of that was  phase the owners of phase one zero and all that property to begin with correct ok and it's my understanding that they have now sold to the the newer developer this area for this phase ok right public hearing is still open at this time anyone else would like to compare we're hello everybody i'm scott sears i live in a seven eight bucking him so if you see the patch of dirt i'm kind of on the bottom right across from you know right about there you know right there that's where i live with my wife and my kids so i've heard a lot about how this was already approved and this was something that was brought up a long time ago and i know that you have been able to find the original plan but the original plan does not look like this the original plan has to apartment buildings a handful of quad units or condos it's very clear that it's a very very different plan and this also isn't necessarily communicated to the people who live in kensington when they're looking to purchase in kensington i didn't get that plan until after i had moved in so had i known that i would be outnumbered four to one by renters in a few years across the street from me i don't think i would have bought this house and i'll just you know i share a lot of the same concerns as wilson did and i guess just to be kind of blunt like it is the people that kind of scare me there's a stigma attached to renters renters don't own their land they don't have to care about their lands and that's that's just true that doesn't mean the people are bad or that they're going to be bad but it is a little bit scary you know that somebody tried to cook of squirrel with a blowtorch inside their living room a few years ago when i was a rent it was in a homeowner that that you know i'm i'm worried about the value of our land i'm worried that whether or not anybody's going to continue to buy houses out there i've never seen ten or nine apartment buildings go up in a townhome community and have that work or look nice you know i'm not a professional i don't know for sure but i don't know i want to make my concerns known i don't necessarily support this as i i would support the original plan because it wasn't quite so aggressively changing the community from you know a town hall community that had some rental properties for lower income to area there are one two three four five six seven per posed multifamily buildings and this was there were back in two thousand and two for what it's worth i've never seen that and i don't know if anyone else in the fight i'm sorry i don't have a units were proposed in this area before then it was one two units like actual  i will close the public hearing at this time and he discussion from commission members i guess i'm wondering is this plan public is it i'm not quite sure how accessible is this information are you talking about the original yes or the real it or to make that information known ok we're believers you know a lot if you go back to that original development plan that we proved years ago i mean there's a lot more houses to be going in there there's a lot more commercial there's a lot more i think there's some more townhouses in mean there's an assisted living kind of remember but in all three still is a book yes ok as one of the phases in the north here would be a senior  living that's why it was approved before this would be additional multi family use and then here would be commercial neighborhood commercial going out and forty  it's sort of like the kensington place masterplan in a way ok something to refer to for a design got it any other questions from commission members i'm wondering if there is any sort of planned buffer between the homes and the apartment development or screwed yes other in the street and if there is quite a bit of vegetation let me get back to that so here there's quite a lot of trees propose really throughout but but certainly a lot of that age and this includes the landscaping plan in this proposal  sir you're the third one over are there two more lots open next two y among commission members i think that also shows that you know that caller hold the larger longer which is a town also i believe that's kind of a buffer between the residential two with some tall houses which would proposed main street would run about right here have to say i actually drove through the kensington place neighborhood a few weeks ago when i had to go to hamilton to see my dentist because i live right here  downtown and yes it looks very nice in the homes look very nice but i can see the concern of the density but unfortunately yes it was brought before the planning commission what fifteen years ago you need to come to the microphone mark so the construction the construction equipment and trucks would access from m forty two ok all through the neighborhoods ok all right good yes it's hard because that's kind of i call how cities start a big area of land and then they gradually keeps getting filled up and the only person that owns the whole land presented the whole plan and the whole plan was approved and so the owner has those decisions as a private property owner underneath the city's control of course and and there can be good things to having density and a lot of people around i mean that that's kind of what urban designers are advocating for more people in an area to get a better feeling of community but it is a different feel than suburbia where nobody's there and you could just kind of wander the streets and you know i am i feel your pain that is a hard thing to lose but it isn't realistic in the context of how much land hasn't been developed and you know our own the rest of the land when a friend of mine talked about a condo complex that went changed where his house faced near where we live and all the sudden it was a big apple orchard and then it was full of kind those and it wasn't his choice but that's what happened he didn't own the land and that those are the growing pains of really a successful city but i know it doesn't it's hard to see the good in it when it's your own place and your own kids and your own patterns of living in what you expected when you bought the house those are all hard things yeah well i'm not in charge well you are part of the applicant so if you want to come forward to  one thing i forgot to say earlier and manti brings up a good point is as this grows and develops one thing we've been working with the city for a number of years several mayors several city managers is that city park there are twenty acres which could be a huge amenity and i think as more rooftops get here the need for the city to for the city to feel a need a greater need to do that i think these kinds of things are going to help that is all part of the growth out there and i think you think d next item farmland preservation arguments recommendation to city council so this is based on a presentation that linda false that had made plan a commission back act and our act over a meeting she came of discussing the purchase of development rights or p d r program and the need for foreign land preservation within  you at that time she had requested planning commission to recommend to city council to adopt a resolution in support of that of this farm land preservation program so we as staff are bringing to you a potential resolution to send to city council where the city of holland is supporting the program within the the rural areas around the city of holland though not participating in the program ourselves that would mean that that we're supportive of having more dense development in say our agricultural areas and and saving that and so so as to promote not having that development in the surrounding area has a has a smart growth type of mechanism so city council is asking for you to review this and to also give your your opinion as to why this is something that the city should adopt it so supporting this doesn't mean that we don't support having farms in the city though exactly like the farms in the city limits exactly so we would well we're saying what this resolution is saying is that if we would support outside of our city limits we supported in general and in theory but we would not be a participant within the program ok and we need a motion we need a motion and also some language as to why this is something that the city council  yes i would say that we really support this because of how we value the agricultural industry in michigan it's one of our top three ways to trumpet the state of the country wide so we want to really support farmer's market in the farm industry and we care about healthy living and the accessibility to fresh fruits and vegetables the way that we can sell to under low income people at farmer's market would not happen if we didn't have excess of all farming products in this area and so the whole farm to table movement is wonderful and people love it being able to go out and pick apples in the in the fall i mean it's amazing to be go from water to farm and hardly a drive and that is a wonderful quality of life to enjoy around here so we appreciate the farming community and we would hate for it to be pulled away and industrialized without consideration for its value and we wouldn't want too far away from the city center either right we love you know we love dogs i believe and i was ok sounds good is that good enough jenna that's wonderful farai we are all in support communications and petitions cudgelling a public hearings we do have one just and jot it down you know for short term rentals short term rentals for december do you want to schedule it or put it next month december yes ok and that would be