so let's start with the survey and i think at this point hopefully everyone's had a chance to take a look at it does that all of the open ended yeah yeah times they can claim up yeah yeah yeah that's great you know i did and i didn't put everything in there because some things can really be summarized right a couple things i sort of changed a little bit like a grocery store came up these people it wasn't being repeated by the same person over and over was lots of different people mentioned the saying that jumped out at me  somewhere where people weren't concerned so much about the rate of the development but the type of development and most of the common skewed toward something that i think is resolve but the foreign based code but no one will be referenced that specific someone with against maybe one or two people reference it positively or you know so i thought that was interesting more about the type of development and the quality of the development versus how fast or slow but we can still go through you know i shot my five foot fascinating because in reading it i said i haven't seen manage and really do which we started out as one of the reasons that i thought initially that maybe we should use that when we said do that to the public because it's too easy to look at this thing and then you know this person who's slamming former representative mark at home all right week but i think that based on the comments when people are choosing that it's about how little commercial developed the right you know i mean obviously all of take away i kind of summarized it as convenience with the character so people didn't really goodsome and they didn't see it like they wanted commercial development because they don't want to have to commute for their job or the see that we could become this big like employment industrial or the kinds of things they wanted were really just to make their own personal life as a president a little bit more convenient right restaurants grocery store right and not having to become a destination it didn't seem like let's become a destination drug shopping or is it wasn't that he there it was like let's sort of like be our nice little town and make it a little bit more convenient but don't spoil everything in the process i think that's a good interpretation of the greed of people didn't want much in the way of change  and when they did it was because they want to know the restaurant in town right which is which is like whoa cars people want to stay in town in the evening work for them for pleasure yeah those two as sort of two different slightly different like whirl arion lifestyle is the practicality and what it uses i think of uses and on tangible things whereas scenic beauty and natural resources i think of as a static and visual things and i don't really know public's addressed you know how to dress up in the town plan that we are you know we talk about the importance of affordable housing we have an obvious a car but not well and this to the discussion has come up several times since i have been here with no resolution with the question of does bringing in more business is really impact the tax talk to sandra and i asked her hands apart and she explained that the tax rate is identical for every single property and so it's really  based on market value so if you have in a current land in the so she knows she's an unbelievable we can actually we should invite her here to give us a little tauriel or i can go back and talk to her and come back and try to explain it but i'm not i wasn't finished because i we were at a time basically different sections of town are much more valuable land per acre than other sections of town but also it depends on the purpose so a residential aged care in the commercial district would be valued lower than a commercial i mean a building not  village centers that are very attractive then commercial property would potentially be worth more in that location then in other locations and the other thing a commercial property is they're not putting kids and the housing will be the same in terms of the schools because you know there's no burden to the school system saying arousing although can have the opposite effect pete if you have public services like police are and specifically use your housing ambulance and then the other time and challenges were transportation which came up also a lot in the open ended commentary from very specific recommendations to preserving our natural control right now people are confident that the town you know is going to be successful managing these things going  that you think there's a lot of do you think there's a lot of demand for people i have to get from here to there and i'm only doing it on a bike i think that's more that's my major miller with transportation there's a demand but i think people would like to i mean speaking for to think there's a potential desire for people to be able to bike to the richmond park and ride without having to i don't you know it's that's a pretty scary you know if you're not an avid know in my brother lives in a neighborhood in schaumburg that's pretty frock you know mile from the village but they put in you know a bike path or you know that connects to the sidewalk and tons of people use it in kids around the ring to school you know can get to work well i can tell you that we have ten people signed up for tomorrow's workshop to learn how to make it easier for them to commute by bike so there is an interest in significant i think people getting to school  sure i don't i don't i don't discount that no no but that there were there's a half somewhere that shows that there is easements in ways that we were trying to was another one where currently people were allowed to cross between property and i can't remember now if there are still a missing piece but i think that would be a better direction than try to use if you like trying to upset  public transit sort of fits in between a third one but it sounds like the the bus is kind of on track where they thought it would be for ridership and it's growing to really listen if there is a reference to safe routes to schools in the education section and i guess you know going back to the survey and just where we're identifying these areas that people that the larger community has identified as important what it tells me is we should be taking more time you know we don't necessarily need to say ok we need a sto going to buy the specific comments that there is definitely interest in these areas and we want to be taking time to address you know those chapters as much as you know be really thoughtful about all the different ways that we can be improving them and that they can that we can incorporate modern thinking you know the bus and you know all these o relatively new in the landscaping guy he's expanded it mattes washing whacked is relatively new and if anybody's been paying attention then they know that there's been a lot of at least conversation and money spent on trying to set the groundwork for the flats so i would look at that and not say there is no development in any of those kind of village east settings but th the average lay person makes that kind of a distinction between new and actually fielding development  that they're not really thinking like how many new buildings compared to what's new and in the village you know so there's it feels to me like there's been a few more new things kind of recently very anecdotal not data as opposed to nothing and the other thing is even though we do refer to maps i wonder if you use the palmer maple example whether people really think that's my census people don't really think the town should do their you know words you know they're somewhere it's split but everyone's kind of in the middle and the comments are really about the time shouldn't be impacting the rate just the quality and  quality and the type because it's working to preserve some open space alongside some cluster you know that was the only thing i want i wonder like if you're not going to affect are we doing like if you don't want to speed be ours says you know it has to be in harmony with the neighborhood just like this which is incredibly very specific yeah and so then you're judged by what's around here in richmond in the and here's what harmony in the neighborhood means in this neighborhood and it doesn't necessarily have anything to do with what's around you so if it's there's a thirty thousand foot warehouse but they're saying that doesn't matter what matters is x y z and then they define the specific right criteria so for each tree for each for each not neighborhood for each zone you just string theory just shows some of their so from their transitional area that goes like because it's root to not in the center but not in the oval station not quite that far i thought it was a little bit in between they really done day care to yeah they said they really want building to be residential in appearance in appearance so says similar to how the smiths first got built kind of residential and that would be one of those sort of self limiting things that you know maybe even some ways more effective than just saying you're saying because those are all businesses but they do ok right right and then when when you hear one night he was talking about how far you set things back from the road so walkable you want everything close to the road but the scenic corridor you might want things further away from the road i think as there are a lot of things that you can do that given that feeling without which for root you know that which is kind of you know that if you have one of crappy area then it's just going to get crappy or right as opposed to trying to  make and whatever somebody is definition of crappy is very subjective but so the planning commission has come up with the character of yabber in richmond and risk really something that doesn't contribute to the a static quality shouldn't be considered one defining character or something that's day care into into town you don't see any big metal buildings you see the houses that are designed the way they are what you're talking about i don't know what when the zoning was inact or when anything was built it's just what their current zoning says is that when you look at fitting in with the harmony of the neighborhood the harmony of the neighborhood is not actually what is in the neighborhood what it looks like it was  residential but we think this is the most fabulous area for agro commercial or whatever over time you can slowly change it was arranging your development as in this new idea of what the character we wanted and character of the neighborhood exam residential not more industrial and then you know the weather thing i added was from the comments that people were looking for make you know people who are interested in mixed use as opposed to just just retail data and think everybody knows exactly where the commercial district is they know exactly what they're talking about here well what i'm going to phil is being ten years on that commission they want that like let's make it fabulous and the reason why it stumps me is because i don't i don't trust i guess and in knitting my bias i don't trust that if see it if you really sat each one of those people down and said did do you want it all from jericho corners all the way to riverside all like that or do you want one or do you want space as stuart had always advocated you want space do you this is what you want in town where development has been where is the right place this is what people warrant were ever the people say it should happen it's the right place for it to happen and i find it hard to believe that it's completely validates that that location is the correct location for all of that but without that doubt i would say absolutely we should go great guns to make it one big fabulous main street between jericho corners and riverside and that's never going to happen because when village center english and it should be developed down around back by staffordshire and then along the fifteenth and that's what would fit better in with the community and that that's i think that's the support you look across the river from down behind the building of the property if people could corporate with the good news and make the news that is where you where there's plenty of land that should be residential there should be opened up for residential ship or down in riverside what would that do each user who works spock and there were some members on the commission that really were hoping it might happen that it might take place down riverside because that would be he from really helping develop that area and you know and then there were people well donna in particular really didn't want to see the commercial district because it would be an anchor and i would create more development there in to mean a critical mass right you know what i said from day one to not that it should be a fourth film center but that he it's whether it should be here or should be kind of it is it's an economic it's a services ok so then so maybe the town wants all these things do they really care where it is just there in the town they just want it somewhere where everybody think they care where things are  you know well i mean if i want to go get a hamburger do i care for it's here in the commercial district government down at riverside or if it's over here you know if you could break that restaurant up and put it in three different so that's why i doubt that's why i question if they're really saying i want this in the commercial district or they just they say i want this interrogated by i tend to think your interpretation may be corr team especially on the track to stop whatever that means a lot of people would that would be consistent with what the answers are because you where they wanted to be rural they wanted to be you the problem they want to protect natural resources and those things are in conflict with having this broad stretch of road  out scaling character and walkability and some of the other things that we just talked about so if people if if development if this is where development is  that's not right i mean they'd rather have all this stuff in a village center where it would be like a village but the way it is that what you're saying is the way the zoning is written it doesn't support great keeping it off or fifteen like it is that each other changes that we can make to the zoning that pushes the development just like john one that changes to be made in the press development you know a grocery store and to develop center is there are there changes to the zoning that can push development back off of fifteen to that area that you're talking can either to you know you know pet sounds to me to me that's the first but that's how it's set up that whatever i may have seen so you are you always have a site constraint so so what are the things that we should consider going to decide like what's the best long term plan like you were talking really not worrying about the one that's there and they can't move back not not about what's there now but what you know with the director's vision for the future i think a bit i think that i think in terms of the current commercial district that we have a problem it is a problem with that district and things when you talk about are like across the street it's all houses all those houses are in the commercial district and there are still several lots that are there and so what do not be commercial should not be commercially seller shouldn't know the residential or right but if it wasn't residential and we got houses anyway so by default it's houses so what do we do with this with this several lots are left or the other one business is being turned into apartments so it's residential the only business left is the fact you see only business left in that on that side of the road in that in the commercial district who would  on the other side of the road with us nothing's now there is the potential for commercial might industrial whatever it was still a couple of lots left on the other side of the world where something that's true where the gas station yeah i mean not actually i could put in  and is that ok or not i'm like i'm not advocating one thing or the other right i'm simply saying you know from want to encourage do we want to encourage businesses or do you want to kind of to say we're done business we're done benefit of well of keeping a commercial what's the benefit of keeping it makes us want to benefit rename it residential what i mean you know what is what is the benefit of any of those scenarios you have to look at the table  in sort of global sense in terms of retail or not was a pretty sort of hot topic there right we even allow any retail never mind size scale local chain do we allow it there's plenty of voices that say no more retail because we don't want dollar general or india or anything like that and that was one of my concerns is how much of the know retail comment i was desperate and i was like because no retail seemed like it and of to stop quick an easy way to get it to not become a village center unless we intentionally wanted to become senator kerry because i think you can't really have both you can't have open spaces separating thriving village centers and then on to retail and then a bunch of right stuff that tween i think you're right i don't necessarily agree that it should be or should be banned i don't know out i think you're absolutely right right if we continue to allow retail right it's turning into another right center and i really never be able centric at this point right but it is a center it investigate the richmond language and see if because if you you know want to be able to burble the you know but to take the bubble around a really june food can look like this use it however you want to but it needs to we all have different opinions and different mindset that seems to be one thing that we all agree on to some extent that this is a view shared that's a good thing so if there is development it should be for the businesses that are right on the road their points of entry and exit have since changed to like from behind or from the side some still have you know right on the main road you're going to now but you can get access from have agreement i mean john this is something that you've said as well but as you drive out so how do we do it if you drive up through fifteen and you look the way the road is the mail is right there in fro it's but there's an experience there's like a visceral experience that would be different if buildings are fifty feet back from the road which they are now or whatever twenty five year remember this or if there are i don't know i don't know what the right number is that it would be and if there are like lying duck along a road and you have a curb cut here you beg the transport in an interior road there it is kind of haphazard would be different than if you had to find out access activity it would retain more of a world character so it's not just blocking them out it's right which is kind of like and i mean it's it really is the most visible and loudest expression  only concern is that really this is more regulations than telling plan although i don't know is there a way to do this in the town  that the definitions of the districts i think really do need to be fleshed out more and once we've done that then i think we've got a better idea of what we're doing and then you can have in the meantime so we finish up with the survey and then do a little bit on that chapter two but i think that really makes sense for the next to me which we've had a really good discussion on this and maybe we can actually come up with definitions that that it was interesting there was a slight difference with jarkko center compared to the other restricted yeah i was going i was wondering if easier to say if your was was overrepresented which didn't come through when you know you ask people where they lived or people really do see jericho center is different i mean we used to joke we used to refer to it as the zebra don't make people don't ask me why we just as different i think it was see it as different also was wondering if that meant that we might want it treated a little bit differently might be an interesting thing to think about it is only districts could be different from the different actually riverside now really has its own zoning because of the form base code right has and that's a spin very specific right where you would be able to just pick up that code and put it in another location and by doing that we might actually make people more comfortable with other kinds of changes to the commercial district if you're that specific but if it was clear people want to go center to there's more opportunity for growth in jericho center because jericho corners has all sorts of issues with  about when we talk about the village districts in the town plan i think we do separate out the three the three but i think when we do that maybe if the next meeting let's take a little more attention to it and so the next one was about an open space fines which got less than half of people agree there were comments out you know i would agree to less than one percent records and you're saying to everyone was it skewed towards people living in jericho center right now doesn't it doesn't know looking at that it wasn't yeah but that was my first thought when i read the comments on the the village center questions skilled yes was demographics and that anything else you'd like to know would like us to know i mean that sort of thing to katherine's word map and you know like the person who answered not a you're going to give us right now we're so and then getting down to that community profile and i think we talked about this before it's just really a lot of statistics and things haven't really the you know each distribution from the last plan everything just kind of shifted up a little bit so everybody is a little bit older port and in the past i said good as it was mandatory make me i mean i definitely would go back i could find it as far back as two thousand and five  i'm not sure it's something you need to do though that much yeah so i guess i didn't make phone calls to figure out if i could find out that's that i also you know from this point for why don't we break out elementary school in the school i think that's sort of significant well actually and then what how does the data work because the heading says yeah k through four yeah so are we missing data potentially and prior yeah it's never stopped you before hear the news i mean i thought it was because there was like a big swell in elementary student population so they needed more school and then based on where you live did maybe made more sense for you to go to id compared to the jackal elementary because when i first moved here middle school where i live would have been to camel's hump because there wasn't enough room at browns river but then by the time i got here the numbers changed so then they switched it that everybody in jericho went around to over here that's why i thought id was really just it was not a you know proclamation physical location small school but on property as  so population origin so we've lost population people are moving out or dying or dying get right inflation it doesn't matter and then have we where have we changed in our order and why would that be now where the second highest compared to shore live well is that because there is nothing affordable in jericho or is that because jericho is so desirable that people who can live anywhere choose to live here and then what is it that makes it that then you think about some of the some of the goals around and the statistics i mean i appreciate that you're looking at this in so much detail i guess i just look at it and say next i'm but he was chair when i was on the r p c ok i mean you look at this and if you had a big effort to do affordable housing in ten years that number jericho should no longer be the number one or number two that's the way you impact that's how we would know which i think is really i think it's just a reason for leaving it you know i think it should be left in i'm just i guess i don't think i'm not look i'm not looking at it is deeply as you are and maybe that's wrong we've got a little bit of you know maybe you know there is there doesn't have to be as much here that we remember this when we're talking about the housing chapter where the education you can refer to it  feel score would say no but i think we this one i think when i sent it to you i said i was having a hard time finding it you did find it so here it is and i think one of the key to one of the interesting things the census now tells us are where people are working and working at home or in jericho is one of the larger sit up in seven and a half per cents of every one works from her home yeah that might be worth it to actually split because so eighty eight point six percent of our property tax revenue comes from residential property two point eight percent comes from commercial water right which wouldn't be one hundred percent but the sound of it task force has almost completed a draft and suggestions for the energy piece so i think we can afford to allocate the for two hours to getting it right which is the definition of the district