if they got into the car if they didn't get into the car i believe she said she didn't see this other person's e mail and anywhere near so that we do know that something happened and then i would agree that it was a short time period but that doesn't i don't believe i believe that they have record in the case that that they knew that that car was for i'm not entirely sure i don't think the record indicated that they ran it said of the number one of your ok i'm sorry yeah that's what i'm a little bit that's what i'm sort of friends fleshed out here today and we'll talk your colleague from the state as well because if there were information there part of the vehicle to the defendant after had you have to have a reasonable person lead to believe that a person committed an offense in order to have probable cause to arrest somebody the police may have known if we agreed that scroll and jason were the same person which and i'm not willing to get there yet but if you if you agree with that that still does not equal probable cause we have somebody who might have witnessed a murder but we don't have a weapon we don't have a person placing in there we don't have any physical evidence tying him we then him we'll say to a building so numbers is a meaningless term in today's market we do have to remember though that i've been in all its whether a reasonable person would have felt free to leave so we have to i understand th officers have to take precautions but we're taking a look at this from a reasonable person's not the officers sampling all the attention of the officers this one factor but remember the officers didn't do this in the middle of the day thank god they went to his house eleven thirty was even dressed at the time that indicates a person was not going about his business during the day they said this couldn't wait until the morning it has happened now which would lead someone to say i can't say i will show you i would  a reason or you know that well that that the facts here lead up to that you have six armed police officers in your house at six thirty at night that say i want to put you in the back of a police car and then when i get to the station i'm going to fingerprint you he's never been convicted he's not there's no indication he was a bastard on a first degree murder charge he has a relatively low experience with the criminal justice system there's no real development of what this arrest record is certainly has no prior convictions as a juvenile an adult this is somebody he was allowed to walk about the police station it wasn't allowed to say i'll come by tomorrow i'm going to get a good eight hours of sleep the night you are not in the police officers a squad of him down savings and put him in the back of a police car the police officers never told him he was free to leave he was free to walk i'm just lazy i'm tight goes both ways but we have to look at the totality of the circumstances of officers the fact that they had guns displayed the lateness of the night the fact that find it was not dressed his right was speaking strictly from either is better sitting on the couch at a late hour at night he was put in a police car he was taken to the a miranda is only necessary when the person is in custody so whether it's standard operating police procedure it's an inducement indicative of an arrest the electronic when it was started which is only necessary when a person car i think you might be in better shape than i think the car in the vin number creates a bit of a tricky as well we have to be careful about how we think about the car because dimitri dorsey said squirrel had this said it was a ford or they said it was a taxi sile chrysler so that police officers i would posit should have been looking for the car scene at the time of the murder and we don't have a match here to doris rhesus four door is a pretty significant difference so i think that to tell your honour's they saying the car is a little bit of a red herring but they do hear his car they have his car but they didn't process it they didn't at the time that they it's at the lineup twenty four hours after he was arrested or taken there is no testimony by anybody earthier going clue that would indicate that that information had been conveyed prior to the wind of itself well at separate the two issues and first put the probable cause off to the side and try to persuade us that this young man was not in fact arrested when they go to his house eleven thirty s testimony that there was no intent to arrest a friend at his home but there was no in d c up arrest there is not enough to just say officer showing up who where weapons as a normal course of their jobs is enough to say that there was an arrest there were six officers who show up at the home but only four of them go up to the second floor apartment raided to defend it and he actually in bites them into his home and invites them into his dining room the pain is never handcuffed he  cos believe i think i can stay home if i don't want to go home go away with us your honor i would say that this is really a cautionary procedure this is a homicide investigation there are multiple offices officers who show up due to the nature of this mess a geisha we don't have here is any evidence any testimony from the defendant or by way of any other witness at this motion to say that that cause a reasonable belief that he was placed under arrest time the trial court found that detective r t a goes testimony was credible he believed to testify to is testimony that it was merely a mistake to put that in the report and that that mistake was correct it later going to go by was he actually plays from the right based on the facts we have to go by defendant was not immediately arrested even when he was brought into the station he is not immediately fingerprinted and photographed as soon as he comes into the station he is take at the home bathroom he had a mac on the door you know me yeah not the best you know if you want to go one way out the out the front door you know that's one thing but he could leave and go to the bathroom unless he knocked on the door so to me you know it seems like a reasonable person in his situation might think there's no way i can just waltz i think are you on this piece i or actions that would be taken with a witness that is  however when we hear information from the witnesses who are on the scene it is fake it is a dark boxy vehicle well there was some discrepancy of whether there could have been a chrysler or a buick but probable cause does not need to be evidence that would be sufficient to convict it needs to be enough for the officers to establish more than a mere suspicion and we have several people here in a vehicle description that is somewhat similar and then we see that vehicle outside the door murder that he says that he's riding around and that another person shoots christopher while they're in the car together all of this information supports probable cause at the point that the detective knows this when he finally arri yes but this is part of the continued investigation he doesn't need to get to the point of the citing whether or not that defendant needs to be arrested at this point because he voluntarily go through that station there's never even a necessity for that judgment call if you have the individual who you want to speak to who you want to continue to investigate by way of interview volunteering to go with you to the station and dat completely negates an illegal arrest if that person is going to volunteer to go with you which is what defendant did on this evening eleven thirty at night is not in d c a loan of an illegal excuse me an illegal arrest the testimony is that defendant is the one who answers the door after day not that no one has to awaken from his sleeper pull him out of the bedroom this is a defendant who apparently was awake who said on his own that he wanted to change clothes and got dressed and decided to go with the officers and we have no information no testimony or you just very briefly your honour's on whether or not jason russell voluntarily came down to the station is the question that we're here to decide today so i just want to point that out and the fact that he was not hand patted down is not dispositive in and of itself and i would point out that there was really no real need to pat him down because he was under arrest at the time that they saw him he had asked to put