reacting to complaints of cetera et cetera what is there in the record that counters what she did and would allow us to find that she was deliberately indifferent many of them were problems with just paperwork snafus in the courts or things that were think really were over detained so i guess i'm trying to find that the policy the custom whatever it was that you say is it at the heart of this to show deliberate indifference on on her part  that there are problems but how are we to reach the point you want us to reach which is the deliberate difference i mean we've got more effective or a sufficient as you want but there was there was activity which appears to be good faith activity to get improvement back the whole purpose for instituting core was t consistently better than it had when people were just going off and do things without coordination and letting people have told him too late that's not that wasn't the driver behind th out you know get out early you know get out late you get out on the day you're supposed to get out made up i'm surprised to hear you push back on that because i thought that was sort of a point of agreement that they were trying to hit the mark and not understood or over point of fact there were many actions taken there's nothing in the record about them being severely ineffectual you know when you look at the total number of people being released check there are erroneous release figures for the years in question i don't know whether an early handle and help pass the set or i don't know whether these are i mean they're in evidence but  you make a reference to being stonewalled or something in terms of discovery did you go to the just record and say i need more discovery and you haven't asked the court to order it for you know know before you do that let me ask you this do we even have to look and class certification here if the court is correct about the liberty differences class or the let's let's stick with the well then let me ask you this this question though for those others though so does that if if the district court is incorrect on the fourteenth amendment the analysis as it applies t increase so this is a question of proposition but if there were an increase in the over detentions since two thousand and eight when that by definition so if you if you take that record and you see it coming from multiple sources by the way didn't see any at record from the government from the state saying oh those people are all wrong or it's really if the number of over detentions has increased over time and the plaintiffs and that's what they said then you know we can we can argue about whether they should be more fulsome detail whatever but it's there why isn't that  really so clear that there should no disputed fact you say it's only five people when you parse this out look it's only five people they say we've got people coming in here willing to testify that ten to twenty percent from your home those factual disputes and if they are factual disputes that they need to be sussed out his trial work it really case that that we can look at the record and say even if you accept what the that's how many people were more and then there was eighteen in two thousand and twenty seven thousand to people you know nine twenty one  supposedly suppose the testimony was there are five hundred people each of whom has called multiple occasions at different times of day and night and no one ever answers prepared to say if your system isn't working and it's not working for appreciable over people twenty percent fifty percent that's a that's a lot of people when you're processing tens of thousands a quarter that's a lot of people that their assertion they say we've got a class of people writing coming judge starr she just stark said you know there's no deliberate indifference here because they were they were trying to address problems and they have problems who are trying to address it represent deliberate indifference on the part of the state of delaware and we've got sure we have your argument on that when he finished i just suggested that i hope the state is at least paying attention you know it may not be that legal remedies for you they will you know maybe we'll get together so you know the liberty difference however that happens whether it happens or not paying attention and that instead of just saying well we think we do answer the phone somebody is actually paying attention to these things and address you know i would take some pressure off probably right ok well thanks for a well argued case and