the following podcast is produced you're sponsored by community members the content views and opinions expressed are those of the participants and do not reflect those of v m c or the town of velma b m c welcomes your comments call us at one problem that seems to have plagued velma from time immemorial involves how automobiles queue up at the belmont public schools that drop off and pick up time it doesn't make any difference which school year out from the butler to the chandlery many people who wait in those cars sit in their cars and leave their cars idling as they wait belmont safe routes to school committee believes that is not only environmentally damaging but that it is unsafe for the kids as well i have with me today two members of the safe routes to school committee erica roberts and she won we're going to talk about the anti idling efforts that they promote erica we in their cars in leave them running that's just against the law right it is a different state to state in massachusetts we have an anti idling law that's pretty specific about the time that you can idle unnecessarily there are times that obviously you do have to idle necessarily you're waiting at a stoplight for it to change you're stuck in traffic but unnecessary idling is against the law and it's even more stringent in massachusetts if you're in a school zone so the state law says that you may not idle for more than five minutes unnecessarily but if you are one hundred feet from any school including its playgrounds its athletic fields tennis courts you may not idle at all unnecessarily and what do you say then to people who say oh come on folks it is thirty degrees outside what do you expect me to do preparation is an important thing a lot of us are from new england and we know that we're going to have extreme cold and extreme hot in a year and you have to prepare for folks that it's in cold weather make sure you have coats and blankets in the car if you think you're going to be waiting for an extended period of time but also remember that the cars that we drive now are not our grandparents cars they retain the heat after you've warmed up for much longer than when you were you could probably stay in for their five minutes before you notice and same with air conditioning it will retain that as well  so i would say definitely be prepared look for shade think ahead and be aware that your car will warm up faster and called faster than your grandparents did so there's really no reason to sit around and idle it is important to be prepared and you can think about how you address when you go outside to go for a lock just even that time to go into the car just be prepared to be outside and then when you're inside in your car and start to cool down you already have a warm jacket if you have a child you can have blankets next to them that they can use as well but having a car idling to heat up or cool down it actually takes much longer if you really do need to heat it up or cool it down you can actually drive the car and they'll be much faster and also safer well my impression is in all defer to your considerably greater expertise but cut people think of the need to warm up a car and you talked about how cars retain heat in cool but they also warm up more quickly than they used to is that correct it's absolutely true the cars are designed now to start from a cold start you don't need to idle to warm up your engine they're designed for many starts and restarts over the course of the car's life so you definitely can if you think you're going to stop a good rule of thumb for more than ten seconds is turn your vehicle off and then started back up when you're ready to drive that's the way the cars were designed to operate now you know and it people will say it's modern carts don't need to be warmed up yet in fact cars made in the last twenty years twenty five years you know people have the misconception that in a cold day they need to turn their engine on leave it on for a minute or two and then they can start driving the car yet in fact that is actually worse for the car you can start the car and start driving right away and i even saw a statement from ford motor company it said if you're going to i don't know your car for more than ten seconds turn it off and then when you're ready to go started back up because it's actually bad for your car to the that iley ok let's go back to the law  for a minute being a lawyer perhaps i'm overly interested in the law but if the law says that shalt not i don't know why isn't it simply a police function to enforce that court or do the police they do the police and forces they do there there are citations as well within a school zone if you are cited by the police for idling the st offenses one hundred dollars and the nd and every subsequent offense to hand out tickets i think i think you're right and for all of us in including the safer is to school committee i do think enforcement is one aspect that would help people be more aware of it is a law however we would much rather have everyone just on board with the common sense factor that for your own safety as a driver for the health of your car for the health of your neighborhood and the kids playing at the school that it just makes sense and it's such a simple thing to do so i would rather not call the police on someone idling i would rather introduce myself make mention that this is something that we should all be practicing remind them that it's the law but yes indeed if you especially if you have commercial vehicles or anything like that that are excessively iding as a neighbor you are more than welcome to call the police they welcome it they understand the law and they will send someone down to take a look it is it easy as an individual whether you're another parent her neighbor to cap on somebodies window and say by the way you should turn your car off i could see where that could get awkward and that was the question behind the question very very difficult i can speak for myself and i'm sure she's had similar experiences it's been a mix everyone's in a rush everyone wants no one's intending to do things wrong or hurtful and so it's not fun to be called out by another parent in front of people just to kindly remind them that they need to shut their engine down when they're waiting i've had the whole bag i've had people say oh my goodness i had no idea you know i don't my car in my driveway for forty five minutes every day just to warm up i didn't know and i've had people be fairly aggressive with me to my my own business so it's  going to take a lot of messaging and practice for us all in modeling for our kids in the next generation of drivers that this is what you do you turn it off when you stop right it is i think very important to have everyone learn about how it affects our health immediately in our immediate surroundings on our neighbors i think that once we understand that just as we now are so much more convinced about the importance of buckling up most people buckle up not because it's the law but because it's as a safety issue for themselves and for their whole family and so i think that's the biggest way of motivating when we learn learn that it will protect us when we reduce idling you know gee you're an m d right you know i remember that correctly yes  let's talk about the health impacts because i think a lot of people think of my lane as an environmental protection in it is but the health impacts are are a much bigger issue it seems to me yes and that to me was the thing that just really opened my eyes as i learned more and more about it we often think that when we see a car idling when that the fumes are coming out of the tel pipes i'll just go up and dissipate and visually see it sort of spreading and then you don't see things anymore yet the fumes the toxins that come out of the tell pipe the actually invisible and they consist of carbon monoxide nitrogen oxides view sees also known as volatile organic compounds and also nano particles or micro particles that are so small invisible and these things and can talk more about it they don't disappear they they pull they hang out right around where the car is and then into its immediate neighborhood so to your neighbor's house to the plank playground to the sidewalk it's just hanging out right there so just think about all the people walking past your car being in their homes with their windows open you being in the car and the toxins going in and these are talks in that we again most people know about carbon monoxide and the dangers of that but it also causes worsening of asthma allergies heart and lung but i heard you say neighbors in there so i've been saying safety to the kids all the time but it if you live in a neighborhood close to a school then you're going to be subject to the emissions from idling cars every day you know the cumulative effect is definitely there for people that live nearby anything like that a parking lot or schools where there's a pick up and drop off for sure in and is being in the car one of my initial inclinations is to say well sure but i'm in the car you know my kids are in the car we're safe as long as we stay in the car it's just scary misconception roger because we see people do this all the time they think that if they keep the car warm for the baby that's buckled in the back in the car seat and they're idling to keep the car warm that they're doing good for their child but i think safer to school i would argue that it would better for the child to be cooler without the engine running and not be exposed to the emissions that are coming out of the tailpipe because they do get into the vehicle right even if the doors are closed the windows are up and you think there's nothing coming in and you may not smell anything it's go leak in it and because there are cracks there it's all that but all the toxins do leak in as well if you have the car running which is something that we see people doing then there's that intake and so it's constantly the air flow and so it's a lot of studies have shown that the air quality inside the car is worse than outside the car and so you're doing it because you think you're protecting you for example the baby that sleeping in the car and you don't want to wake the baby up and you want to keep the baby warm and in fact they're breathing in all that other toxins and i wanted to add to that g that the idling emissions are at a much higher concentration of these talks is than when you're actually driving your vehicle which is important to know and i'm amazing fact that i read and this came from that connecticut when your car is idling it emits twenty times more toxins than when it's driving at thirty miles per hour i couldn't believe that fact but twenty times more and why is that it's not as efficient the vehicles are going to be running and the engine isn't running as efficiently when it's idling so it's using more gas so it's also bad for the drivers wallet as well as their health of course so if you're driving the engine is burning the gas more completely more efficiently and therefore there are fewer talks and so has when your i lean more of the fuel i think this is what i just heard you say tell me if i'm wrong in when you're idling you're simply not burning as much of the gas you're it's just inefficient and so if the cars are designed that's why we have to do state emissions testing for your vehicle every year or two to be under those certain levels and when you're idling they are much much higher let's talk about electric vehicles for a minute as you each know i think that one thing i do in the town belmont is i chair the the town's energy committee and we're promoting the purchase of electric vehicles do you have concerns in electric vehicles are emission free do you have concerns about electric vehicles we're excited from to be in the mix and i think it's this is a good conversation to have because not everyone may be able to afford or own a an electric vehicle right now but turning off their engine is going to help when they're to stop idling to help with the cumin of the fact that we have in the town with the with the energy with the electric vehicles i definitely know that people are concerned how quiet they are and and for the children's safety to know when they can pass them with the emissions since they don't have any in the direct location if they're idling out a playground yes they would not have emissions coming out to the playground however the motor vehicle lost a stance that you're not supposed to leave a vehicle on attended so that would be one thing i'd make sure the electric vehicle owners knew if you still can idle and leave your vehicle down and it might be confusing to pedestrians and cyclists to see an operating vehicle even if there's no emissions is the save time to pass to cross with the lights on so i would still encourage for practice to just turn off the vehicle but you are correct that they would not be polluting into the direct environment their right for electric vehicles the mission would not be the concern the concern would be more the safety component of whether adult or a child when you're trying to cross and you see a car and the driveway and it's on it's confusing should i cross or should i wait and if you're not don't sometimes you have other cues you may see the person in the car and you see the car person the car waving and then you will cross but for a child you know it takes an another level of learning to try to figure out what to do and so for the safety of a it's better to turn off your not if you're not planning to go right away to continue though with that line of thought though you know people may also think well i have a low emissions car or i have a it's not electric car but you'll say something about low emission so it's ok to for my car died as an it and to me i think of an era where people smoked a lot and some people start and start smoking at a light cigarette and say oh this is better for me now isn't it but it's still you're creating the missions where there may be a little bit better not as bad as the car next to you but i still creating those emissions so better to just turn off and such a simple  that you said strikes me that we all have our our own little routines when we get into the car i mean hopefully we all have these but you get into the car you pull your seat belt or your shoulder harness over were taught when we did driver's ed that you buckle up you check your mirrors there's a routine that you should do sure behind you now i think we're noticing a lot of pairing especially with cell phones that's increasing this time that we've sat in the car to get started but we haven't left yet and so we've been idling so a lot of people we're seeing get in their vehicle buckle up turn the car and then let me send the last couple text messages can not supposed to text while i drive ok let me pull up the you know what name your app for navigation and set that going out find some music to put the video on for the kids in the back and now you've been sitting in your driveway for three minutes idling when i'm really trying for myself now to practice doing all those things and then the last thing i do is turn the car on before i leave and we definitely see  the opposite end to when people drive into their driveway or park to wait for their kids to come out of school their routine might be to park and then check their phone or some or make a phone call and they're checking you know a social media but they haven't powered down yet and i think there's a big link to that just and i think it's just kind of mindless it's not intentional but it's not innocuous we need to turn off the car well and i was actually thinking from the opposite direction in that the you're sitting there with your car idling and the kids jump in the car and you throw it into gear in go so there's not the interim step to force you to think for even if just a fraction of a nd to look around it's the turning the car on slows down the process and let you look around for other safety issues absolutely right totally agree and i think a lot of the schools in belmont do not have what you would formally call a rolling drop which i think is a bit what you're referring to where the cars queue up they're running and the kids come in and out with the driver staying in the seat in the supervised by someone at the school i know it was the school that my children go to there is no rolling drop off there is designated drop off parking so you come and you are supposed to turn your vehicle off and and then go so there's a little confusion there where it says drop off area people might leave their car running thinking the kids are just going to hop in but technically it's not rolling drop off at most while at most of the belmont schools and you should turn off your vehicle even if the kids are right there you know is there an anti idling campaign envelopment i'd like to think where we were anyway we are part of that ok but i do want to also add people think of the time frame of turning on the car doing all the things that we just talked about and then going as an innocuous amount of time a minute two minutes not a big deal and yet actually they're cumulative and a minute actually is a significant amount of car time idling so a minute is equivalent to three packs of cigarettes and the amount of carbon monoxide that is produced so and if you multiply at the risk of yeah if you multiply that times all the cars yes so i'd like to go share about one study if i saw that i thought was very similar to our situation here in belmont so they're noticing  that in their schools thirty cars on average will idle for about seven minutes during pick up time and in fact actually when we were walking around our school and we did a count there were thirty up it's hundreds and hundreds of packs of cigarettes that you are creating that much carbon monoxide right in your environment and then again her mental health is doesn't fly away it will pull it will hover around your playground around the school around her neighborhood and most parents will if they see a single person smoking one cigarette and someone's playground they would jump on that person and say please stop i was going to say if if there were parents standing outside of schools smoking hundreds of packs of cigarettes every day people would go nuts yes that's a term of art we're right in the us was visible i feel like if the emissions were visible and you could see the plumes and the downdraft in the pooling that happens depending on the weather and the terrain around wherever you're parked i think it would be you'd be much more mindful of it and sorry go ahead it and in some ways on a hot day it is visible or if you ever look at photographs of major cities you will see that haze hovering over the city and that's what we're talking about but thankfully it's at a lower level here but still not at all at a level that you want on a daily basis where we sleep and eat and and work and play now i'd like to change directions for a little minute for a little bit  this seems to be a health problem a safety problem an environmental problem is it a school problem do the belmont public schools have a role have they taken a rol in addressing the problems i think they've been very supportive i think like anything it's education and and bit of enforcement is the part that's harder we can get the message out but every year we have to have the message again for the incoming kindergarten families that maybe didn't get it last year you've got grandparents and nannies and neighbors driving your children you have to keep passing that on that may be the news letter from the principal of your school came through saying don't forget there's no idling in school zones in massachusetts but you have to pass that on to the drivers in your family i'm even going so far as i did with the texting thing to tell my children at a young age if you see mommy grab her phone while she's driving or anyone just mention i don't think response to have phones are and i've said the same thing about i live i said if you notice y vehicle and it's been sitting for a while you can say i'm warm enough you can turn the car off just to help from that age up to educate but i do think that safe routes to schools working with each of the individual schools it was surprising to me when i joined me on this committee that some of the school seems to be pretty far ahead in messaging and to the parents in terms of e mails and flyers on idling and other safety things and other elementary schools were not so we weren't on a consistent page some schools are playing a bit of catch up but they i think all of the teachers have the children's health and safety in mind and so they've been very supportive as well as the principals right and if you think about how uncool warmer days windows are open  at the schools as well as there is also a venting in the air intake and take so you're not safe once you enter the door if they're if you have a lot of the toxins the fumes around the school and so you know it's we have spare and speed want to do everything possible to protect and i think just a lot of it has to be about educating people saying this is not something that is safe for anyone this is easier than recycling as we talked about searching a button there turning a key you should feel good about yourself at the end of the day i just shaved five minutes off marling time today and with no skin off your own back you know it is one of the i think the simplest ways of helping the environment easier than recycling easier than buying an electric car easier than composting and all these other things that he tried to do simply to turn your car off yes a media local benefit more than ten seconds and turn it off fair enough if it is that wh i heard yes if i had been sitting more than ten seconds turn it on right and that's also supported by the the motor vehicle makers the motor vehicles i'm out of industry just based on the wear and tear on the parts is higher if you're idling than if you're operating your vehicle but i've noticed because i've been practicing dropping off a friend at their house i want to see that they got in the door safely oh i'm going to turn off my car and wait and and then put it back on see they are not in the babies that are picking them up i'm just there's times i realize that i was doing it too not just at school and it's really eye opening yet that the ten seconds will it it's because that it takes more energy for your car to run the car and i had a for ten seconds or more then the car to be turned off then to restart and so that's where the ten seconds come from but certainly as soon as you've pulled up turn the car off right away in something you just said i remember which one of you i'm sorry but it strikes me that even today i've had perhaps a mis perception because i always think of the safety and health issues as involving the elementary schools but there's no reason that this is less preschools private public headstart facilities any school and as you mentioned at the beginning a school zone is widely defined even if the adjacent property is not owned by the school but it's a playground or an athletic field that's adjacent that's all part of the school zone so try to practice this at the preschool or a drop off and the on entry school in the high school it's for everyone across the entire state right to reiterate the law says that if you are one hundred feet from any of these education facilities you may not idle unnecessarily at all but the whole state and any location you're not allowed to i don't necessarily for more than five minutes and there are doing laws and dozens of states around the country and that's because it's not just about a kid's health certainly the kids breathes more pound per pound so it will affect them more but anyone this is not good for them and especially for seniors especially for people who have respiratory issues but even if you are a healthy person going out for a jog and you're breathing in all that at a much faster rate it's not good for anyone so yes it that that  law about not idling at all does apply right around the school but good safety practice not to idle wherever you are whether you're at star market or no matter how well i would like to and we're running a little short of time but i'd like to give each of you in an opportunity to have the ability to speak directly to our listeners if you could summarize your concerns about either lean in fifteen seconds in a couple of sentences let's start with iraq and then go to g sure i think we're just reiterating what we've said before which is i feel really strongly that is a very simple thing that you should feel so good about doing for yourself for your vehicle that you invested a lot of money in and for your children in the town that we care so much about that you're going have immediate benefit from it here so much self on the back and turn off your vehicle yes and when you i had all it doesn't just affect the world but affects your immediate environment people in your car yourself the people right around your car and your neighborhood so it's not just about global environment which of course it does but our local environment great thank you eri gee it's been great fun today we are out of time i appreciate you taking the time to be here we have been speaking with erica roberts in g huang who both volunteer with belmont safe routes to school committee you've been listening to community conversations you can stream community conversations online at the b m c podcast network at belmont media dot org and you can also find community conversations on i tunes by searching for the b m c pod cast new network thank you for tuning in this week i'm your community conversations host roger colton i will talk with you again next time