good morning with the planning committee september third two thousand and fifteen please come to order my name is don coutts and chairman of the committee and before we start can i ask everybody to please turn off any noise making devices your cell phones  we have a little deal we do here in this committee and if your phone rings will ask will stop for now ask who it was and what did they want so you don't want to have that happen turn your phone off member john goodman and with us today we have the planning department of course mr bent's good morning will good morning chair and corporation council deputy corporation counsel michael hopper good morning and then our staff today is up front today's greg guarino good morning good morning and in the back is legislative analyst greg i'm sorry jordan molina morning and then pauline martin's at the compliance report for the key high school change in zoning p c thirty fifteenth annual status report now electric that's for the when a project out there by the landfill p c thirty two transit vacation rentals in plan developments and p c thirteen park zoning district comprehensive update we're going to start without objection going to start public testimony here in a minute before we start public testimony for individuals testifying in the chamber please sign up at the desk outside the chamber door if testifying from remote testimony site please sign up with the district office staff testimony will be limited to the items on the agenda today that i just mentioned and pursuant to the rules of the council each testify  will be allowed to testify for up to three minutes prior to him and i will be allowing an additional minute to conclude testimony and will be using the lighting system it's set for four minutes it will go to yellow at three minutes and read at four and please conclude your remarks at four minutes when testifying please state your name and any organization you may be representing all right so first we'll start with the folks in the chamber there have been so far t people signed up to testify first testify as isaac call followed by john good morning chair couch and members of the planning committee my name's isaac hall i'm an attorney in why luke who practice land use law for thirty five years i'm speaking in favor of the park zoning ordinance which is p c thirteen on your  agenda generally i favor the ordinance because it will facilitate the provision of more park space on an easier basis throughout the islands but specifically i'm speaking in favor of it because of its application  in mckenna at the mckenna resort as you may remember a long time ago whenever dowling was the owner of the resort and rezoned it there was a condition forty one or two i forget which which required the expansion of the park and also required the dedication of a trail down towards pool lightly and that has never come to completion discovery land now controls the resort and we've been working with them diligently and the expansion in the south for direction which is what everybody wanted is in the works and the adoption of this ordinance would make that possible on a much more quick basis and provide that additional park space quickly and that and for that reason we support that and i want to thank discovery land for working with us on that and so we hope that that park space can be provided for the benefit of the public as soon as possible through the adoption of this ordinance thank you very much a board member and vice president for the national socio economic parks and recreation officials soldiers and i'm testifying as an individual today i'm here to make some brief comments on item number  thing is clearly that different classifications set standards for each type of park and their activities in amenities that are allowed in each of these classifications the class cations also restricts the heights of structures in each of the different classes of facilities the best of was all my concern is if all the cost of case were under one parks classification where the code would prevent activity structures instead of not allowed in current he won't parks classification which is a neighborhood park be allowed in a p k three park now could from taking place in the p k one also what's with the classifications currently there is high three strict sense and also a part of the code would prevent a seventy five foot climbing wall being built a neighborhood park when the current p k one park is limit to fifteen feet in height if by chance a new proposal change moves forward i request that there would be some sort of language that refers to national standards when it comes to planning design of the various parks to a lot of property activities in the parks as per guidelines also the proper heights as set by the guidelines an excellent source would be those developed by the national recreation a park association thank you for your time thank you mr buck members any questions to the test i do have some do you have that in writing because i'd like to you could pass out to the members because i'd like to refer to some of the the items that you are so i don't have the sixteen copies but i can get the staff and th here today so let's go to the one i district office just to make sure ana are you there because i didn't think so all right members anybody else in the chambers wanted to come up and testify last chance going once ok member seeing none without objection will close public testimony ok public testimony is closed thank you ladies will be hanging up now ok here we go members first up is going to be p c twenty nine which is the annual compliance report for the change in zoning for county high school committees in receipt of general communication fifteen dash seven from katherine she superintendent state department of education submitting an annual compliance report in accordance with condition three of ordinance four one three five two thousand and fourteen relating to a change in zoning for seventy seven point one eight two acres  for the purposed key hey high school we're going to discuss this and then see what we want to do afterwards i have a feeling we're going to be for it and keep it open but let's hear what the  department has to say with us today is galen not cut the soltys development branch state department of education come on u see this is the first year into it where you are and things i do have some questions but we have to give a brief summary and then have them open up the floor to the members ok basically since the approval of the final yes in november two thousand and twelve in the petition for district boundary amendment in february thirteenth we have requested funding for phase one of the high school currently we have thirty million dollars to support the construction of irrigation wells and site infrastructure and we are the work includes archaeological monitoring plan six to seven days of monitoring and additional monitoring if needed that work is going  speak and we'll have a pretty big meeting this this month and then the rest of the monies will be requesting to hopefully site construction we are requesting additional funding over the next two years for to hopefully complete construction of phase one which will allow students to start school we have received initial d o t response to our t i a to finish our or start and finish our design phase and that is basically where we are at right now ok members any questions mr chair white there site design work and subway so the wells are part of the pre design and so in order to complete the design we need to get the results of our well work and where what is the capacities and how it will function to then complete our design so this is still part of the preplanning that we need to do in order to finish the design part of the u c requirements is that we need to get the d o t approval of our traffic study and the pedestrian route study before we can proceed so we are trying to get that done we submitted that in november last year and we just got word  that they have some issues so we are trying to get that resolved as soon as we can but we are we do have our team ready for design and so they are looking at the overall picture but we really can't move forward until we get the final approval and when does a thirty million dollars lapse the thirty million lapses in june so we have everything set to do to get moving on the infrastructure but that's really all it's going to take us to to get slight improvements and we're looking at the next two years in getting we need over one hundred million in order to get the actual school  lapses in june that's not a whole lot of time thank you thank you to your members any questions miss cochran thank you chair and thank you for being here this morning also says that comments from we have not received but to date the only thing i have received was the car comments but that was on our studies not in response to to the report ok is our public works work yes the potable water will be coming from the molly water it's just that in order to hope that the project because it's such a large area and  irrigation is needed this will be supplementing it and providing a non part of the water in order to help with irrigation so it'll be a combination of both things when it's up and running yes ok thank you very much thank you members any further questions mr victory no and i again thank you for being here i understand of all the irrigation wells but i thought there had been some talk about extensions of our recycling water to a site and i think that was the agreement in talking with the county and the mayor before but in order to get it to the site is a situation of having to get those improvements done along the highway and so in order to anticipate that or because we anticipate it won't might not be there when we are building the school that the wells are providing that other source of water and it will also be there in case there are one water source is fluctuates our understanding is that it will first serve the golf course before it gets to us and there may be some times where there may not be a water and the questions i have some thank you again for being here i noticed in your comments you said you are going to start your group groundbreaking this month  i'm taking some time this this year so it will happen maybe in october but we still need to open bids and determine what the contractor is in court and ate with them the date for getting on site so that will determine when we can have the groundbreaking ok thank you all right so we're talking still on track for the supposed to twenty twenty class of not class of twenty twenty but the first class is going in and twenty twenty the big question for that is whether we can get appropriation for the next to yours in the next two years and the reason you didn't go with  programme with it coming in phases it makes it very difficult to guarantee through their contractor that they will get the full funding unless it's there or so and we don't have a really good track record of getting funding exactly when we say we need it so it because we couldn't get the funding when we anticipated it we are now looking at design build build in order to be able to at least phase the work when we get the money so it's my understanding that  each year it really depends on what we get from the legislators i guess this past legislative session when we started with the governor we ended up with one hundred million in total c i p through our budget i think they were able to add about thirty four million to that so our whole c a p budget was that much and basically that's what we're requesting for the new school so if we don't get it on its own or at least more than get us through mr victory i have a question and you know we've seen that so much was appropriate and mr white has more knowledge in that respect but i remember we had so much money is appropriated and that set aside and is only when the governor feels fit to release it so how much do we have set aside specifically for this project we have that thirty million dollars just because i would saw we had a hundred something member there was another line funds for education and they have since not provided those for us so we now have general funds so basically they although at the legislation say i said that there was no funding told and then all of a sudden now you're telling me completely different it's the same thing really we read too and so when we requested it we were told that it was not there was such i think it's time you wrote a letter from your district and from this committee to say what the heck is going on i was going to use another word but there are cameras i want to do that but this is this is terrible because we're told i read you read i talked to the deal of people and you know this money was set aside and now you're saying all we got is thirty mi and nothing more that doesn't make me happy me neither that's why i brought this up if you're going to be ninety eight i've been very particular and just project was you know i was on the board of education and we had it set then and we got jam and i want to use the reaches but hears of the people above especially our legislators who supposedly got all this money and it's their right right ok thanks actually i'll let you go from here thank you mr victorian oh and thank you for expressing my frustration to and and send it off numbers any further questions further for the questions for the yes mr cochran thank you chair and how many total phases is this broken down into for the total bill bell well there we broke it down into phase one which will take care of the initial eight hundred students so how about half so that we can have it the thought is to have at least two houses of students which will i guess and i think we're working i'm sorry we're working with the school district to figure out whether it's going to start with just you know the lord grades or whether it would open to every grade i think that still needs to be part of that discussion but part of the concern would be that if the other monies are not following then you know we cannot anticipate that we will have another house for someone to move into and then that doesn't occur so what we really want to do is to make sure that we can do the best we can with the monies that we will have in order to service the students so that they will be able to move from one grade to the other and graduate without having to worry that there's no funding available for that next facility that they need so we look at the phase one that will allow for students to use the facilities in order to have all the components they need to graduate i guess my more general question so set aside do we have money or not is just a simple how how many phase where you know are you anticipating and hoping to get done because it looks like phase one is just within ten years you need to complete phase one and then so i'm just trying to figure out timeline wise and the more of the sports facilities so those will be brought in as we have the funding i would like to speak to being just one phase but it might be broken up just like in phase one we have phase one which is going to be the remainder of the thirty million dollars besides the well water well drilling funding so it will  it already is being broken up although we wanted phase one as one one fee so it will be however the funding is provided to us right i understand that could be a restriction for you but i guess part is the basic infrastructure backbone so that would just be i would think collectively of entire projects i mean are going to just build a road here stop ok here's a little phase one section and then you know run your sewer lines utility lines or whatever you'd think that the entire project would be built out with the infrastructure first and then you're going to add your classrooms in your sports fields or whatever he is going to had you know on top of all that is that kind of idea yes ok oh very good so it was the spicer thank you thank you very much chair i just want to say that you know every time we get into a project that involves state funding this becomes an issue i have some experience with this and i think what we're hearing here today is that it behooves every single one of us not to assume that we have anything beyond the thirty million dollars that we have and we have to make this issue we have to keep vigilant we have to stay on our legislators and the governor because you know even when money is appropriate it doesn't mean a darn thing until you get that check right because i know it's happened to me i've had the appropriation done by the legislature and then money's never released and goodbye project so we have no guarantees here and i want to thank you very much for bringing this up today because it would create awareness again that we cannot read acts but a pressure has to stay on we need this high school and it behooves every single one of us to make this a priority and continue to stir the pot and we have a legislature th coming up very soon you know it we think next year but you know it's not there we have to stay on this and we also have elections coming up and we have to make sure that we have people that are committed to this project so thank you again and thank you very much for bringing us some reality here thank you thank you hesitate to mention this when the budget chair is not here but the vice chair is here but maybe we should step up and loan the state the hundred  and high interest along get them you know get off their us yeah it's an investment in the future of our children and ok that's just blue sky thinking right system but high chip is specifically for schools so and it was developed specifically for hawaii so we're a lead sometimes you do some points because you know the parameters are more typical of being in the mainland where you have you can get materials from miles around but for us after so many miles you're only ocean so you know we don't have the same opportunity so the high chips  allows us or it was created so that you know the difficulties of being an island state were taken into account and other things maybe like natural ventilation was considered more than in you can get so many more points from air conditioning your facility than from providing natural ventilation and in order to get points a lot of people automatically go to air conditioning because you can then garner other points from the type of system you put in so it's things like that a lot of you know to develop or they created the high chips in favor of holy and the schools ok so just i guess share with the understand where we are in in mali so you know he does have it it's weather situation so what part of high chips is that they've just installed a weather station and i think it was looking lani intermediate to to help monitor the weather and try to see you know where you know how the winds go temperatures and to you they're going to use that as a basis for the school to to then help determine instead of typically you might get your temperature readings from carlucci which may not have you know the same bearing as closer to the site so with hi chips that some of the things that come into play knowing too that this is a site that is totally undeveloped without any utilities there if it's going to cost us more than our typical schools where we have developers  provide the utilities up to the street so that's another thing we'll have to provide our own driveway because there will be future development above the school what we're looking at is developing the roads so that we all create the driveway to the school and put our utilities in there but the other half of the roadway will then be turned over to the developer when they develop the upper side so that they can then put in their utilities on the other half of the road without digging up improvements that we already put in for the school so there's things like that that were already identified when we were looking at the purchase of the land so that i our agreement as well and then we are working with the utilities to to look at plans for the school to try to make a sustainable sustainable as possible to then reduce usage and  know air conditioning is a situation where we will probably have something that will provide both natural ventilation and air conditioning because we know that some days you can't live without their conditioning so that's understandable we're just trying to make it work for the school so that's something that we've challenge the design team to do and it is part of the school's requirements were very good and thank you for looking into that and again looking forward to this moving forward having said that without any objections i'd like to defer this and leave this item open so when we get there ok when we get the report next year so the site amnesty for right up next is the fifteenth and no p c thirty fifty manual status report from maui electric and the committees in receipt of general communication fifteen dash eight from sharon m suzuki president mary electric company ltd transmitting the fifteenth an status report in accordance with conditions six of ordinance two eight seven nine two thousand relating to a change in zoning for sixty five point seven acres in pool a who knew we were white where you would like i would like to discuss this report and see what happens after that so without any further ado mrs zuki can you bring you and your team up duce them to us for the record  please good morning chair coach and members of the planning committee i'm sharon says a key president of mali electric company and today joining me is matt mcniff our president of our manager of the power supply department and margaret supply engineer in our power supply department so what i'd like to do is to give you a very brief overview of our energy long range energy plans have mark give you an update on why in a property and  to talk about our give you an update on renewable energy so thank you again for the opportunity to address the fifteenth annual status three part on developing power generating needs for molly island as chair couch mentioned maui county and of course as those demands grow we need to adjust our plans accordingly and what we've heard from customers and you've probably heard from your constituents is that they want lower electric bills they want us to pursue more of a noble energy but they want more choices and how they use electricity and of course they want reliable power so last year we filed a proposed energy plan with the public utilities commission that focused on meeting those four object as that proposal did also include the need for a new generation that can be sited at the wind up property with the adoption over the past few years of energy efficiency measures by presidents and businesses and of course the changing electricity demands you know with the kind of growth and declines in the economy we have been able to defer the need for a new generation and by delaying investments in new generation we have been able to avoid passing on dollars costs to our customers so at this point i'd like to  a road the property was rezoned to heavy industrial and provides an optimum location for the future of maui's need our needs approximately half of the site is designated for conventional generation the other half for alternate research alternate energy research or projects since the property was purchased from a and b it has been leased back to  at no cost and remains in ag except for about one and a half acres it's currently being used by our transmission and distribution department for storage laydown as stated in our annual report and restated by sharon earlier to date we've been able to defer the addition of firm generation on maui and had not had to develop the way on a site beyond the storage needs i mentioned next up is matt mcnabb to top our power supply department manager to talk about some of the alternate energy resources hydro a lot of rooftop solar resources like that we currently accept about ninety percent of the wind generation that is available from the facilities that are own not paraded by and sun edison that being and while he this year we plan to install more rooftop solar than we have in any previous year and that takes us to right or we're right about twelve percent of our customers that have rooftop solar as compared to the national average of you know much less than one percent we have posted on our website a graph that actually tracks in near real time the renewal generation that is coming onto our grid for each day we also have various tools that customers can use to evaluate their options if they would be interested in stalling solar and we just submitted for approval by the public utilities commission to new purchase by arguments for utilities say it scale solar projects some of the way in a report gives the status of various other alternative energy efforts that we are involved in to bring more renewable energy to maui county thank you thank you members open up for comments questions mr victory no you know thank you again all of you for just update i think the community as well as ourselves appreciate you see each and every you know i know it's mandated but your extensive review helps us to a little better understand where we heading i guess the million dollar question and you know this is all nice  is really what's happening out there and it's probably more concerning to the public is what's happening with this merger and i guess i don't want to bring that up because that's not part of this strike you know ok however mr chair it is the overlying part of this is not you know you can't separate this whole issue and i and i want great thought of details but the point i'm having and most are not consumers and and constituents that are out there are really concerned about that and that issue this is not it doesn't mean a lot to them until we know what happens there because will they follow this plane entirely for bedo that's still to be seen and i read their report think that from our perspective next will help us to accelerate our plans and i wouldn't say that it would be done as we filed them because they have one not been approved by the commission  of course many things are changing as i mentioned you know the demand for electricity there are resources concerns about different types of resources so i think we just continually review in fact we're in the process of reviewing and you know again just for the public to understand what is going on this is a complaints report but this is good that we could feel a little confident that they could still support what you put out there so long as is approved by the commission itself and maybe i'd like to just maybe three more points to why we think that they can help us and why it is good for hawaii and for mali county so the next star has access to lower cost capital which means lower interest rates on any financing which we see as a way to help us invest in the investments that we need to make in infrastructure has to integrate more renewable energy and therefore that gets passed on to customers in terms of lower costs on their scale scale helps to bring economies of scale to price seeing and costs for us in terms of what we do for example if we standardize on the types of poles that we installed you know they could help us buy it at a lower costs and that there it is their technical expertise they've done as an example implementation of new technologies in terms of communication two way to their customers and understanding  grid we wouldn't have to reinvent that will from that perspective so they certainly have technological expertise that we can tap chair there was a mention that you're looking at two commercial level solar projects where will those be located and will they impact any of the existing circuits that are to some degree limited by the number of people that are on them i'm not sure i'm asking the question properly but i'm sure you can figure out what the answer should be sure thank you for question one will be located in key and one will be located in and they aren't dissipated to interconnect two circuits however before the public utilities commission right now we have a proposal on alternate ways to i think maybe what you're referring to is some of like the fifteen percent of peak on a circuit we have other ways we're planning on calculating the risk associated with the amount of d g penetration on the circuits you know as we continually get experience with higher and higher penetration to become more comfortable and each time i've been able to push the envelope but will either of those key headline a installations limit what expansions may be available to th and keep a residence without them i think that our i don't know if i would say that they it would limit our calculations include all of that shifted generation on any one of the circuits so it will definitely be factored  in that being said you know they plan to go through some studies that will try to mitigate any effects of the system being interconnected and what what size are we talking each of them are just under three megawat pretty good size installation and i'm just still a little concerned that the residential folks are not going to be able to expand to the same degree that they might be able to otherwise  ok it was missed by so then miss cochran thank you very much chair and thank you very much folks from acme coup for being here this morning you certainly are the item of interest this week and i'm definitely looking forward to the meeting tomorrow night i'd like to listen to what the public has to say i just have a question and it is a little bit away from that because i think you know i think there's a little confusion about exactly what is before the p u c and what is before the p u c is do we go with next or was offered don't we we're not going to get into all these other things at this point if i understand correctly what is exactly before them so i'm sorry we've been interrupted by court counsel we've got some issues with talking about next any deeper than than that so if we can stay away from i'm going away from that right ok ok sorry i was not even going there on to somebody else about it ok what i am interested in is you know we've been reading a lot about the demands that are being placed on our utilities because of the weather could you comment so i can comment you know recently there has been unusually hot and humid weather and when that occurs you know demand increases in fact you know this year we've had our highest peak or the largest demand we've ever had since at least back to two thousand and ten possible the before that so it definitely does place a demand on on us being able to provide all the power that people want but you're comfortable you're ok you've been able to handle so far we have you know we always have plans to be able to meet meet the need and you know that does include some contingencies so we always have some backup in place also i want to go back to what you know when wayne was started of course we were very concerned about building more capacity and needing more generation and whatever and then there was kind of a relaxing of that because we saw all of this alternative energy come in and my stinting know that we're going to go back to trying to get one up and going because we need to yes that is part of our plans in the future to put additional generation one ok thank you very much and thank you for keeping the lights on this cochran thank you chair and think you may go for being here this morning that it's in the report it's been noticed you know i'm just thinking at the point about hydroelectric and that's been ok i just i'm wondering if there's a kind of a summary of some sort to to look at to see because you had had three separate studies done and they all concluded the same scene it's not feasible so you folks just kind of scratch that off the list of things to look at it wouldn't i wouldn't say that we scratch it off the list we continue to have continually evaluated but in each one of the studies that we have done in the past it hasn't  although i think it has a lot of technical character sees that we would like to see we couldn't get the economics really to pencil up ok yeah i would still like to see the reasons and where things are tested or how it was tested and if there's a way  to grid integration it mentions about the battery energy energy storage system that was done and you know that whole substation was extended in order to gather more data and to come to some conclusions and allison what have you where can we see that you know i mean i always talk about battery backup so has this proven out that it's you know or needed or something that you can strive to integrate within your system so this is this project in particular was sort of a smart good pilot you know i believe it was successful the batteries that it did serve its purpose now that the now that that the demonstration or the you know the trial is over we we continually evaluate how best to use that battery you know it was  r set purpose during the trial and now we're free to use it as we can  when there's no sun out i mean you know we talk about the renewable resources are not happening when to what have you and that battery backup sturges the key thing to flip being on your search and having your electric power generated  it's it's a it's so important but i know technology is the way it is and it changes each and every day and we want to get the best product out fairer but i just think you know we need to start somewhere and improve as we go along with that if it's possible but chair i have other questions right i want to take over everything i was just curious i didn't realize that you folks are utilizing bio diesel fuel and says your i guess start up and shutdowns of the engines over in so is there any have you folks looked into maybe you lazy as the sole source yeah absolutely the bio diesel we currently use i think we've used sense two thousand and three if i'm correct two of our units for environmental reasons back in two thousand and seven we actually tested each  alternate ways to use the water that treated water you know i think one of the proposals the county had in mind was to use that water to grow a crop and then either make electricity or bio gas from that crop and that is something that we are in discussions with the county with and would be would want to proceed with should there be benefits to customers oh very good i'm glad to hear that so thank you folks for your time this morning chair thank you very much thank you members any further questions seeing done thank you folks for being here and we will see you in the probably next year thank you all  one more item before we go get our break here members are now on p c thirty two trying to vacation miles and plan developments other committees in receipt of kind of communication dash two two zero from me transmitting a proposed resolution title referring to the planning commission's a proposed bill relating to the transit of vacation rentals in planned developments the purpose of the proposed resolution is to refer to a planning commission that that bill that would be allowed to continue the uses as a permitted use but one of them and we and we had we reached out to all of them in one of them did not respond to us and that was all a low and miss cochran had some concerns about that so we put in that one item that one restriction to basically carve out we have received a letter from the a o l a loa asking that we remove i don't think we have any comment mr term ok and  let's see members i'll open it up to you mrs first yeah i think it's fair and yeah you're correct at the time we first discussed this that particular project did not have a comment  and why i heard just here and there but no official written right so i just to be safe to not add it in so years saying right now they owe you a house responded and wants to be included yes ok this action is here today ok and basically all it does is if you look on the ordinance it with the bill it will eliminate number three would says the planning and development a multifamily dollar units because all a lot has a combination of duplexes multifamily and single family and they were apparently built at the time to have trying to vacation rentals and there are so we wanted to the day asked to be included into this so any questions comments you mails or what have you in regards to this lecture that we can do not what i'll do as we'll will do our morning mid morning break and then i'll get that and when we come back we can act on it ok ok and miss cochran let me let me take back what i said i want to do this is just to send it down to the planning commission and they were going to send their i they asked if they needed to come today and i said no because it's going to go down the planning commissions that's what this is for today is not the pass the bill ok so i can still about referring yeah this is just referring it to the planning commission and what i'd like to do is refer and then in the meantime i'll get the letter from them get it to you and add it to the ok well thank you chair that's why i mean but if so happens in our fifteen minute break or whatever we get it's there and yeah yeah yeah we just know harmon adding a no no not at all not at all ok but right now i'd like to just say let's get this out to the planning commission and then at the break up find the letter for you ok ok and that's fine ok members any other questions comments ok i'm ready for to make my recommendation a motion to recommend they'd option of the proposed resolution intitled referring to the planning commission's a proposed bill relating to transit decatur minerals in plan developments and incorporating any non substantive revisions and i'm not going to file it because it's going to come back on what the record show that it's we got all seven of us here today yay seven eyes zero no us the motion passes and with that i'm not going to close a side i'm out yet we're going to go on  our mid morning break if you can be back by ten twenty i would appreciate it that we're at recess really planning committee meeting of september third two thousand and fifteen please come back to order five members staff is handing out the letter requested by ms cochran and i apologize for not having that in the  earlier all right we're now on to item p c thirteen and just to give us a heads up the committees in receipt of county communication fourteen dash three one two from  director transmitting the proposed bill untitled a bill for an ordinance amending chapter nineteen point two seven mile county code and repealing chapter nineteen point six one five relating to park districts the purpose of the proposed bill is to update the county zoning provisions trying to consolidate the two chapters into one it's more appropriate for it to be an under one hundred twenty seven we are keeping the central park as its own stand alone which is a  some very unusual or been put in some really weird positions where you want to do a use such as a skate park that's allowed only in p k three yet you only have three acres you don't have twenty five acres or minimum requirement the classic case was in where you had you have a beautiful skate park out there but we had two changes only in two a district but the lot did not meet district standards as far as that goes also you have ski ski parks could be allowed or should be allowed in other districts or others smaller lot sizes and not just in that particular district a lot of this also came about as discussions with the parks department over several years prior to going to the planning commissions and many of those issues came up we tried to find out what are they coming in for variances a lot of times it's height variances for structures and as well as you see that in the gymnasiums for their facilities as well as future plans if they would like to build larger structures there was talk at one point of doing a blaze del type structure at one point and so they wanted to have that flexibility another thing they came up with is that we also have like master greenway facilities the facility would be only ten feet wide and fifteen miles long how do you measure or meet the minimum lot requirement for that lot size so it didn't make they go in for improvements right but for new facilities one they're going to have to do and so the don't be public import for that and most of the time that facility is being imported being developed because of community demands or community input for such a facility secondly they felt that when they could they also have to come before the council and get their prop funding for that facility so again there's a lot of they felt there was a lot more checks and balances for their facilities when they come in for that so if they did i mean i know there were some issues on gun ranges or whatnot obviously you're not going to have a gun range on a two acre neighborhood park also i don't think you probably could i mean but i think that the council during his budget as well as a community would have some issues and concerns who would want to put some limitations on it also you know the reason that you know that was discussed a lot was we have areas that  park so that's one of the reasons we would want to have it i mean but it's so it's not really zoned p k one two and three i mean it's not in a p k designation so we feel that that's one of the reasons we need to have it where we've already zone something as a park we need to come in and read designated as one of the at least section three of the proposal to automatically zone those two  one this bill does not dissolve or rezone any park facility that was developed but the underlining zoning is not a park such as you have throughout  colony park dedications that were done in for residential for large residential subdivisions in which a neighborhood park of some type was developed but it's  still are three or are tours in the residential district but park facilities are open to pocket parks have been developed and there can to they'll continue to be have that underlinings only until we go back and at that time re private right now however the other caviar that where the cop parks department indicated to me and they can correct me if i'm wrong is that they they have memorandums of understanding some type  of of agreements that they do with the private landowner to one allow for the public access but also it limits the uses and the regulations and they regulated to that type of document rather than the actual zone so even though it may be a are three zoning they obviously there's a park there and they limit the hours they limit through some type of and the types of uses that go on there even though it's has a different type of zoning and the same issue would come up if it was use owned it p k one and it was held as as a private park if there would still be that underlining agreement that would limit the uses to whatever the parks department and that private land owner had and then again if the private landlord did want to come in to zone their property p k one then the council could then decide whether or just a couple of comments when with regard to the lot size when we did the interim zoning project in the late ninety's one of the things that i noticed was all of these places on our community plans that we subsequently zoned to p k one p k two p k three virtually none of them met the minimum lot size that's that to me is a problem that tells me there's something distinctly wrong with our with our zoning code you also look in this code and like in the p k one we have neighborhood centers are allowed we don't have a definition for a neighborhood center we would probably interpret it at some point to be a like a community center but those are only allowed in two and then you go to p k three community centers aren't allowed at all in year regional parts word you would want the community to gather in you know function together we don't allow community centers so that you know there's just silly things like this i mean this to me indicates a huge rewrite is necessary of this section of code and  you know some of the things are just really obvious to me and one last comment and then call it doesn't want to say but he's sitting up here in it a lot of the parks  what joe is saying about private parks if they dedicated to the county you know it still has its own standards apart from the parks zoning district so i'm really comfortable and there's quite a few of those and i'm really comfortable that those are very well controlled and regulated so thank you mr kay and then mr boyd can say welcome by the way up our stricter  chair from the park standpoint were in favor of the proposed changes from planning you know that the biggest thing from god from what i just heard as well with all the zoning and everything else is you know from what it was written in the past and a lot of cleanup a lot members you've heard the discussion the comments the opening comments from the departments i have a pretty big list of questions but i would all open it up to mr guzman first i proposing in that you know if it's a passive park or whatever it would be allowed if they are proposing to improve it with the parks department that at some point does only would have to be changed to the appropriate zoning district  which you would come before the council to decide at that point obviously they would be recommended so that's one of the things and take into consideration so in what cases in which the  assigned uses would be given p k for the golf courses or p k for and so that's one of the impetus i guess you could say whatever the properties already zoned so a residential zoning does allow park use so someone could come in for a subdivision have to dedicate a park and wouldn't need to change their zoning from residential to park in order to to have that park either dedicated to the county or set aside for private occasion so right now unless there's a resigning application for somebody to one of these park districts there wouldn't be any new districts established it be the existing district and sports ranges and so forth can i can a golf course take up a part of their their property and turn it into a skeet range which is which may be less of a residential area or does that require them to come back to parks apartment or planning to initiate change no they would be allowed to do that as a permitted use within n and i would just comment i would think the likelihood of say turning one of the holes that one of the mckenna courses certainly not in calling a poly would they even dream of turning it one of the holes into a trap ranger rifle range i just won there's much less return on that kind of thing than there would be for a golf course  but we've also had golf courses decide to close that's true but i can think of the one in  and mr chairman if yes if it's quicker to put the whole gun range thing to bed so everybody can quit worrying about that throw it into the special use category and just we don't have to discuss it anymore and everybody's concerned about gun ranges exploding all over the island which is called special use it will go through a process and will will be in line with yeah as well i'm not going to get ok mr whiting more questions mister i do want to mention that what mr hopper was talking about for instance a residential has a whole residential subdivision has a park in it there's a real close example here is why the heights the park there is actually zoned residential but it was part of the whole the whole subdivision so the question is do we want to go back and cha to park zone or is it but because that is allowed in the residential although that was my question really is what are the uses that are allowed in that type of park if it's not under one of these categories  to limit what they want to do with their with their park if it's publicly you know like joe said there's either some kind of understanding with the county of what's going to be allowed there  or it's going to be if it if it's county own you know all the c i p comes to the county council and there is determinations of what's going to be built where so i'm i'm just really not concerned that we're going to have all kinds of inappropriate uses in the middle of our neighborhoods the residential zoning section and it says use these parks and playgrounds noncommercial certain commercial amusement in refreshment sale activities may be permitted when under supervision of the government agency in charge of the park or playground so it may be inappropriate because there may not be a government agency but i mean unless that's considered permitted by the county but that's what the actual in the residential district anyway that's what's allowed on commercial ok anybody else questions mr grossman thank you the department mentioned earlier about that section of the ordinance or the code that relates to community centers on in parks that it's were where exactly is section is that is that would that income  permissions and whatnot and so that was just handed out just as this item started so that that shows you what we're repealing in this bill and then what is turning to so it can give you some comparison ok so the current bill as proposed does resolve that so yes you had right built community centers in the next basically says yes basically says in any of your parks anything zone park you can have a community center tha are right one one question i have is are there this word parks department are there any parks out there that are owned privately at this  connor ridge and beach park and actually a few more insults as well so there are a few that yes are privately owned probably maintained but open to public then the guy guess the question and i am sure the planet probably doesn't have this information out of their head is that zoned actually zone parkers are probably part of the project district or the residential zoning in all likelihood it's still zoned to residential if it was so it was basically a when they did or said division he said it to make maintain it is a private park and they had some type of agreement with the parks department that that would satisfy their  park requirement without having to dedicate it land to the county i guess that was considered acceptable to them at that time another question i have been members if you have questions is you know we would mr chairman yes we would have to look up the the exact zoning for each one of these and i have no doubt too as previously said some of these are going to be project district so that's a good question because that airport probably was there before we had any zoning codes so that could very well be as well i doubt if the zone airport down there anymore whatever we want to call it the two districts are basically park for recreation on the distinction is the other one is for golf courses primarily and ski ran s and it does allow for i mean we did we did add open land recreation outdoor recreation you know paint gun airsoft field play picnic this part of it is lighting for light structures but again as i indicated when we first i guess when i first started doing the amendments and just trying to consolidate the the  we talked with parks department more and more we talked with staff and the history of legacy all these different ones we made the changes and one of the meetings that we had with the parks department at the time was that besides lighting there was  desired at some point to build a larger facility as you always have in the go into variances for gymnasiums and for basketball arena basketball stadium gyms and stuff like that and so for the most part they say you're going to decide whether or not that that budget you know to build a a blaze del type arena is appropriate but then you're going to start going all w yeah that's the maximum i understand your concern but i don't think people are out there trying to build ten story or nine story buildings out there is held i don't think so i mean not again it's pretty rare for someone to actually zone to apply to the park district again form and so that's why it would had been a facility owned by the county in which they wanted to use it rezoned it as part of some comprehensive plan but i mini again many of our parks that we consider parks that we go to  are actually in another zoning category where a park facility is allowed but actually zoning is not in in fact it's going to when you go through some of those zoning changes for parks some of them just zoned it to park they didn't actually say park p k one even though that's probably what they meant based on the lot size and so one of the things here is to correct so that we can actually zone it into the actual zoning category that has regulations because there is comfortable we don't have anyone out there that we're going to be giving one hundred twenty foot building to it's under private ownership yeah not that i'm more of i'm pretty comfortable that there is they could turn any other miss cochran i don't think you and think you sure wait for bringing that up i was just so because you mention it in reference to relating fixture of some sort at that height level and then reading the di bad comments about the lady in the seabirds so i know the the average in regards to limon aries cut off in shielding what have you but yes part of it does has to do with the height part of it but also has to do with just when you put a any light fixture whether it's on the side of your house it creates a light this light pollution in light distraction to near shore birds you know took a look at it and we had had some discussions on whether or not we should specifically list hold or slash towers and half as a separate type of development rather than just  also as a permitted use within the park's district and and right now it's kind of i guess a gray area because on some things we would consider it a structure some people would say no a pole is not a structure but i do feel that we should profit to make it cleaner for everyone but we just listed as under the development standards charts we just list a pole slash tower you know our light pole or siren our light pole slash tower and then put in the map maximum height and then if you choose to decrease the amount of height for buildings that wouldn't impact necessarily the poles and lighting fixtures because right  or reno or something of that that magnitude but i think i would be a little more comfortable taking out building height and allowing towers and and poles and things of that height and then just any any building over the thirty five feet is just it is a special use because if if there's a if there's a desire to build a big arena that's going to go through a huge huge process and everything else as a result of the review and so i don't think making that a special use is going to be a big problem no and then they don't have to go and check to see who's got p k one  along those lines department something like war memorial fields that you know the bottom of at the bottom is the track and the football field and then you have the stands and then you have the press box with and you have the whites is that all considered one structure are they all separate structures of the stands or one structure than the how would that be interpreted i guess this far as whether it's a building  you know for the maximum height there because i'm just doing that the math the top of my head it looks like it's probably about from the field to the top of the press box probably sixty feet yeah yeah i measured from the field we measured from where that the ground in which it's on right now even though it's all kind of the same structure because the stands are are built that are built in the side of the hill sort of and then the press boxes on top of the stands and structure yeah again we would take it from the building itself and i don't think the ok i just wanted to see how it would be interpreted so that we great ball stadium same scene permit is actually built into the hillside the actual height from which it's measured for the lighting it's actually the level where the level of the top of that hill is ok and that's how the woman was originally done if you go to the other side which is what you call the same level as the field then the lights stay and the same level measured from that point if i'm correct so that's my understanding of how these were applied through the years and it would be applied in the future if you're talking building into a skill you know it was building that complex into a hill site which line and the woman while it's actually done this distorts of  treating all that you know i grieve to try to not put it next to some active pleading part one golf course so whenever civilians or human beings are consistently moving around i don't think that's a great idea alina i don't think anybody would have done that i think there's more common sense out there but it's good to me show everybody on the same beach my question here is the a plea how this is applied to our parks who have pools no one talks about that and small memorial all of these have pools now it's a little separate but there's no you know real appley google standard two pools and holiday me feeding to a community or into a park i know i just mean we should all go at the front again you know me i would come up with something new i was you weren't thinking about but it is true in almost all our parks now and i major parks we have full facilities and they're built on a doll norcross and so in the future as we build up like the regional park how would that be a political to the standards as far as pools like this if we build any more pools in public facilities or public lands i'm sorry i'm not following pools are allowed so i know they are allowed but what's that would mean bystanders you know ok like what we having right now with with someone our pools there starting to deteriorate and leave so we build we don't get i'm always on level ground and i think that's one of the questions that i that i wonder does this address and that you know does this because when i read it over i couldn't see way to just what particular topography we use i members what i'd like to do is to go through not line by line or anything like that kind of section by section then we'll go to the uses will will discuss them quickly basically on page one if anybody has any questions on that you know if you don't have questions we'll just go right on any concerns with the language and whatnot in page assume that's entirely up to you all i can say is mit central park was a very controversial park and for that reason i decided not to touchett i just said and here it is and because it was a very controversial item with iran her home the community i mean so i just didn't want to get delve into it in macomb and make a mess of it and i left it as i members is yes it was controversial when it went in it's in it's got standards it pretty much fits general park description i mean it would fit into the general park uses that sellers are in radio towers i think to sell into she would really love it if we could put some in central park but i guess then that leads to the question would remove those things be allowed without having have to come through us for an agreement yet it would have to come for an agreement we can't they can't use part facility without i would think without an easement at least i would say that's it least have to get an easement it's also in the special management area so it's not like something's just going to magically appear so i guess still the question remains does the department have an issue with us just eliminating m c p and changing it to park general park from a planning aspect no i don't think we have any big alerts we just did not because we felt it would be too controversial or would muddy the water even further if we did it on our own if the council wants to do it that would simplify the districts i think that makes it easier for everybody specific conditions that would have to be dealt with and also just as a note of what the controversy was it was basically mayor  there was just a lot going on with the whole thing but it had finally passed but i would want to look at the specific ordinance and see if there is conditions that would need to be dealt with before you we could just blanket what's the bodies i'm fine with taking it out i don't think we're going to pass it out today we're going to get everybody's concerns and changes because we're going to do something special use it and so we'll have a written and by that time by the next meeting we should know what the conditions are it's easy to find out and if if we feel like pulling it out which is would be my recommendation  and there are some issues that we can put it right back in i think i'd like to see the conditions and put forth before i make my decision on that area so until then i i don't i don't want either recommendation i don't want to leave it in i don't want to go until i  girls clubs at that time for recreational purposes for the children so it was of merit multiplicity of directions that was given by den mayor lingle to get this as a central park it was her gym to make it a one of a kind central park and new year's trails in the still trail you can walk the entire park and i think it's like three point something miles if you were to walk continually around that park or so there was a lot of pull all this out i mean it's not something that we can find and i disagree with the statement never to be done again because there are some areas where some skill some conceptual and not talking about our regional block but some sometimes words going to come out so fast conceptional me they would like to use the same premise as q polani you know we also have to air the special park for our special children ok that was all a part of this this is a really common one of a kind and we hope that some other areas in the future may do this you know so i gain i'm comfortable either way i like to see the conditions and personally i'd like to just to know that the archery range and the automobile go cart and motor bike are separate separate items so if one was going to be a special use the other would have to be made a special use as well i just want to know that those are different any of these that are listed  permitted use is obviously going to be permitted unless they're made a special use if there's additional uses that the council wants to change to special uses they should be noted going forward so that's we'll get that information if we go to page two now yes sorry cochran clarification or electric bikes motorbikes considered a motor powered i think but that fall into that category you know well on motor vehicles at least state definition motor vehicles no bikes we don't have a proper definition yet on the on  that everything looks fine and he comments concerns objections ok so we'll do that will make that change then page three to the bottom of page two all the way to pay for actually park and golf course any concerns with doing that and we separate archery and gun ranges archery is not anywhere near as intrusive ok any objections to  p k and g c thank you you confusing or i know sorry so i went on to say something yes mr iowa i guess my preference would be to keep it as peaky for just because  that yeah but that's true however there's almost no p k three except for hama and the park is the areas that have were correcting where somebody made the mistake o someone put in park rather than going through and actually saying peaky one so there's really and there's also a lot of you know like a key a where you have lands that are on the zoning map that says park so at least now they'll have a standard  t if you keep it because for just designates it's a larger park golf courses are allowed by right also but also other uses or we've added over the uses to it so tennis facility lots of others it can be something other than just the golf yes although you do say in page two you know for golf course right because that's the existing title i don't want to change too much it's still called p k for golf and it allowed i just don't like the the fact that says p k for golf course if it can have a really nose and everything else so can anybody think of a different snake for that kind of  right now you need to be you're allowed but you need a permit you know you need permission you know in a park chair corner now we do not allow archery in our parks and this is did we have a certain area that would be permitted  you can just go there and start shooting wherever you want in the park so mr hopper and of course to clarify this is your zoning ordinance which would even restrict the parks department from allowing the use but if it's if it's a county on park the county itself can restrict or require permits for whatever uses are going to be on the county property i think that should be clarified if the uses aren't allowed here then there could be a zoning issues we're dealing with just the zoning but you've got your whole separate parks ordinance which talks about the types of activities that can happen in the park which permitting you would need and the parks department itself would have the authority to determine what uses are allowed in the park even if they're permitted just like any private land owner would have the right they could still restrict the uses but in this case it would be based on that that parks ordinance so it's an important thing to note i think in general for this ordinance as well and we're talking about when you mention motorbikes and stuff like that of either but there's a moving that the special uses and i was indicating he could restrict it but that means that if you put in the special use that means the parks department would have to get a special permit from the county to do a motorbike as opposed to him just saying you can't do motorbikes unless you get a special permit so say somebody wanted to set up be at the stadium parking lot wanted to get a permit they don't nobody can just show up and set up a go cart track but they wanted to get a permit from the parks department they would but if you made that use a special use then parks department would have to then get a special use permit to set up to allow for gold carts in the parking lot for that one day on that one property and so again as both mr as mr hopper indicated big they have control over the park facility of its own by the county and even it is not owned by the county they have normally they have a limitations and access agreements for private facilities and again this wouldn't apply that those restrictions would necessarily apply to private facilities and less at the time they got dedicated for for use there was some type of restriction if there happened to be privately owned facilities that had the zoning then yes those private facilities could do the use without getting a special permit if they're listed as permitted uses but for government owned facilities  that's all correct that they would still need to get parks department permission to go on to that park and use it for that they use it so that being said back to our train gun ranges i still think as miss cochran says arrows are pretty deadly to leaving them together is fine and making them all the special use would be that i think the route that we're looking at that we're talking about ranges range not a situation where people just walk into a park and start doing target practice so you're saying leave it as a permitted use as opposed to special you have to be approved by them anyway ok and if you remember the archery set up in calmly community park was actually in the building which used to be the storage area for the parks all those golf course existing golf course facilities that have that designation would be allowed to do so those facilities as because they are privately private facilities direction concerns i'm fine with leaving it as a permitted use then with that so i do archery and the people i fear were setting up in line or rec center and then there to i know you can do this so we move the targets but you can't literally walk up and put the targets that you haven't put out your quiver arrows in your bow and start shooting i mean you can do this anywhere beach park i mean if physically you can i mean i know where you're not permitted but you a person could so  things of that nature permitted but you need to get permission of parks in order to do it so right off time in from the hall you know after school training for all the kids running around and we're not going to do it it was you know done primarily early morning when no one was even quite awake but you still had to get permission right well at the time people did not realize that they just said hayes looks like a safe  person within limits of any parks to engage in archery so you need a permit so that's in a separate code section that regulates with the allowed in county parks now again if it's a privately owned park then the zoning would be the more poor people want to go to to see what the restrictions are but we might have a whole set of you i'm sure are familiar with regulations regulating what's allowed in the parks and what you need permits for and things like that so you need a permit if you're going to do archery tournament engage in archery in order to do that you need a permit license lease or concession issued in accordance with the code in any county park right so just to be clear are you leaving it in as permitted use within the zoning categories and it will be limited in restricted by the parks department but that's where we're discussing right now i think that's the ultimate i think that's fine a ordinance says you can't discharge archery without a permit right and if we're leaving it as archery ranges i'm ok with that right that was tough the first one sure ranges and gun ranges it's good we're going to change that too and they're going to be fine because there are park restrictions to parks department restrictions already athletic arenas stadiums and tennis centers that's allowed in all three dist different districts i don't see any problem with that ok i'll just go down members if you have a objection just speak up why don't you just ask if there are any objections ok are there any objections to our page and you know that they have their own liability to do to deal with so they were going to split that try to split that out again since we said archery ranges and gun ranges just put a line in between them one can be a special and the other can't is a permitted use based on approval from the department so no to a restriction to it say in county own facilities we leave it as a as a  permitted use in county own facilities only and then we'll add in a special use private facilities so we're saying for gun ranges for gun ranges any objections to that well that is that an issue mr hopper with you know private versus public mr cherry think there are sections in the code in zoning where there is a distinction between if the facilities government owned or privately owned so i wouldn't see a problem with that we may have to work on the wording i'm not sure if it would be notes in restrictions verses just read to scribe in the use as a tree and gun ranges in publicly owned facilities listing that is  ordinance so hand i don't see a problem but we would have to work out the language i think ok is that the general intent of the committee archery and gun ranges are permitted use in public facilities change that to archery ranges and gun ranges in publicly owned facilities and then we'll put in special use will put gun ranges in private privately owned gun ranges and privately owned facilities whatever he said he's going to work out the language but basically if it's a private park and they want to put a gun range it's a special  agricultural zoning laws but let me read straightforward this is just for the ag district just for the ag district under special uses nine hundred thirty a zero point zero six  zero number age open land use recreation structures facilities which do not meet the previous section including commercial camping gun or firing ranges archery ranges skeet shooting paint ball bungee jumping  so those are already required to get a special use permit if public or private if somebody is going to open one of those facilities up in the ag district and that's probably where you're gonna see a gun range or something like that anyway out in the middle of nowhere far away from other people so and i seriously doubt somebody is going to want to change their zoning to park in order to do th it's not going to complicate a whole lot so ok so the last i understood we're ok with archery and gun ranges as being a permitted use as long as it's in a public park park because the parks department and that's just for clarification for the golf courses archery and gun ranges will be exclusively special uses or at privately owned golf course so the public private  through gymnasiums historic building structures or sites or areas of scenic interest marinas open land recreation outdoor recreation paint gun and airsoft playfields picnicking playgrounds playing courts playfields recreation educational neighborhood or community centers and facilities for public or ok what is that word if you don't know what  was this is a do want to note not only you have skeet and trap what were you were getting down there and then but also i just want to note so you know i had a time outdoor recreation includes ok so outdoor recreation anything any problems with it putting in the notes and restrictions except for hunting then we go back down to skeet and trap fields and sporting ranges what is a sporting range there's a slight difference and that's why i put all three of them just to cover my basic right but you know mason sporting ranges and i think it should say sporting clay ranges less is the range that uses something that's not made of clay clays we all know what sporting clays even though they're not made out of clay sometimes current so do we want those as a special use or is that ok at a golf course i think we would want to change it to a special use in five it facilities in private facilities again only ok next page want to turn a golf course into a campground for isn't necessarily a only a golf course it's private lands that are p k for so it should be like a slash there because you keep referring golf course golf course it's not just necessarily an off course and we have places such as wes meyer who was once a golf course and now it's just open fallow who knows what it's going to be course right now there's a some courses that got sold them it never village it's just sitting there idle so what now i'm just thinking in terms of these open lands campground could i mean there's walking trails there and things now people who are from his prison be walking their dogs i mean c i don't have a problem with adding it that would allow for that a man did know that we for the golf courses we did add play feet we wanted to open open land recreation and out the recreation as well as you know  some other activities so that people could do it so i don't have a problem campgrounds ok members any concern with that ok all right  i got they have we got a few more pages left what i'd like to do is because i know two members have to go still keep us at their forum but what i'd like to do is ask you to take a look at anybody suggested changes that agreeable mr chair white a question for the department we have this list of items that are allowed under the previous correct definitions and i'd like them to provide as a list of items that they've taken out that are not reflected in this if there are any mr although i did did you remove any restriction i don't yeah there just they we just consider that to be an assessor use that's so is there anything in this list the original list of permitted uses that has been taken out not not intentionally we  the intention was there but we will double check but the intention is to be the more permissive we added uses i mean we added like farmer's markets and all these things that are already going on either through some type of licens can make some change or do some updates also while you're is that is it the general consensus that anything with a gun does is should be should be especially use if it's on private correct privately owned property correct ok because you know like i said there's like outdoor recreation out there thing has listed you know skeet and other stuff that and hunting right so you'd want to have those uses moved to a special use fourth and if you can't make the twenty fourth meeting send me a message that you're ok an email or a letter of some sort of what changes you would like thank department and you know i just wanted to say that we thought that this might be an easy one until we got into the weeds and because of the way we're a little short staffed it  everywhere we didn't get to the really tough questions until yesterday and i want to thank the departments for coming up with the answers with these tough questions and such a short notice and we'll try and get it a little bit sooner to you than the twenty four hour notice so you appreciate your getting here and getting the questions answered at this time we will defer this item without any objection no objections and that being said that's the last item today and thank you members and we will see you on the twenty fourth i think so this meeting is