tomorrow we are waiting for one member who will be here momentarily so that i'm going to take the after i introduce the other board members i'm going to thirty five thirty seven chandler street because they are letters and so what we will do is we will do some administrative items then turn to one as soon as barbara was arrives turn to one twenty two waverly at that point mr mcgee can well rick you will leave the meeting we will through the other agenda items and we will take thirty five thirty seven chandler street last and will remove himself from the meeting prior to our taking up that so let me begin with the a couple of the administrative items  particular i don't see three and five which are the discussion of the agenda for september sixth in addition to whatever hearings we have whatever you hearings we have for special permits or whatever we carry over from this evening we will have to large topics to discuss on september  a few days before the labor day weekend so the one major item on our agenda for the twentieth will be update on pushing village the substance of that will become clearer as we get we had originally we had agreed at the last meeting that we would have a discussion with the building inspector about the process the whole process of the real relationship between the conditions attached to the special permit and the inspection process i had originally approach mr clancy about holding that this evening but we as a board wish to wish happy birthday to mr clancy mrs clancy and so we have why julie wisely moved the item to the six of september meeting  we are not going to discuss that at this meeting but what i have tried to do in the piece of paper you've just received is to outline this is not a meeting to discuss the interface with the building  this what we're going to do for the next couple minutes is talk about how we're going to discuss the question with the building inspector just to get things started i've listed three topics that are as suggested discussion points with glen clancy the first is the question of major versus minor what's a major change what's a minor change proposed for discussion is the question of whether we the coordination of special permit conditions with the inspection cycle it's not as if they wait to the hart building department doesn't wait till hope projects done and then do it inspection there is a schedule of inspections trying to understand how some of our conditions could fit into that schedule  is a second possibility for discussion and a third is at the end of the day we've said there's got to be as built plans there's got to be  compared to permit plans but compared to as permit it we don't really have a systematic process for reporting back on that so that might be another topic that we would want to discuss  jeffrey do you mean report back to the board the the the the thought would be we have a list of conditions just and when the building when the certificate of occupancy is given you presumably not presumably you you have got as town planner you have gone through a list of conditions and satisfied yourself that they have all been met and the the thought here is do we want to have a formal i am on the agenda where you report back to the board on projects as they are completed i have there's no reason to believe that this is the other only exhaustive list of topics that we could discuss with land on the six but if there if you have others there are other ideas you give them to jeffery so that we can encourage you can incorporate them ahead of time and give glenn a list of what we'll be talking about or i suppose if people have other items to discuss to suggest for discussion now that would that would be even better perhaps along the way as we have the discussion with which glen and the building inspector that perhaps there could be some process improvement changes that could help to i made my notes here close the loop of on the third day of the month scheduled for september twentieth that's the date on which the minuteman election is being held and we have been advised by the  i do not i did not mention this simply because carl is not here i did talk with him about it i have been so i have been serving as the representative of the planning board and the community preservation act but in light of the projects that are going to come before it over the next year i have talked to karl about whether he would be willing to accept appointment to that and he would it's there is a great many playgrounds and well the good thing about having volunteered for the high school building committee is it excuses you from being asked to sing about a great many other things all right then we are also had the minutes were we have three sets and i want to assure you that i am not checking my email out of a lack of interest in this current meeting which has absolutely my full attention i am checking my e mail to see if there is a communication from barbara fiasco must i want to wait to begin until barbara has arrived and therefore we will move on to the to forty two lines three the argument or the observation that i want to do x and my neighbor next door my neighbor across the street the people behind me did x does not carry much weight with the board because depending on what the neighbor did the answer is when your neighbor did x the rules were different the rules have not changed in fact because your neighbor did x maybe one of the reasons that the rules got changed but in any case the fact that you it is possible to point to someone else who has already done precisely what you want to do does not in itself carry much weight it's just the rules are different in those two just rights the second observation is the the discussion the the board when i think this is the board looks a true things when we look at a special permit we certainly listen to what the applicant says about how the space is going to be used and even though we would call that intent but we can to give much more weight to the issue of how the space could be used in intelligence circles that's called you've got intent you've got capabilities you need to put more weight on capabilities and so in general when we say that really looks like would be easy to turn into a two or three family house after the applicant has said i'm going to use it only for my family dance or if it's not we don't believe you it's that houses in belmont last along people in  hired away by silicon valley companies of the time and then they sell it in so we look not at how you plan to use the house but we look at how the house might possibly be used and that particular cut on the one who and three family or four family issue and i mention that because it's not that we do not absolutely take you at your word when you describe what you're going to do it's just that we look at how the house is like you can be used for the next fifty eighty ninety one hundred years houses in belmont last a long time right and so with those two points of introduction and understanding that you do not have your architect with you this evening i'd like to invite the applicant for pine street who obviously there was  presentation last time but if there is anything additional that you'd like to say we're happy to hear it then we will take questions from the board comments from the audience and forward we are unlikely to we will probably continue the discussion simply because there may be questions where you need your architect and it's hardly fair to he gave us good notice that he would not be available but with that we've opened forty two pine we will continue with the discussion of forty two fine and then we will move back to one twenty two waverly so one of the point i think in the last meeting it was mentioned that landscaping plants  speak a language that you might not possibly understand i reserve my comments for your architect but one general note that i make i think you will understand is that if you look at the neighborhood iran you do have the only ranch on there you're surrounded by your proved colonials if you are going to take the second story off of a ranch and you're going to make an attempt to make what seems to be like this almost like a split ranch  split level ranch i would encourage your architect to look at the possibility of as long as he's removing this roof to encourage him to look at something that would complement the neighborhood and i would be hitting the roof i see where he tries to keep his gable intact again i don't want to go above and beyond your understanding of what i'm talking about but i would love to talk to your architect because i'm not sure that you're doing to the houses doesn't have to mean anything like that it just you really just if you're going to be cutting the roof off of most of the house who leaving it looks like the roof of the garage which quite frankly don't understand why but i'm going to be taking the roof off ninety percent of the house when you take the roof off ninety percent of the house you have an opportunity to go with a roof line that would complement the existing roof lines in the neighborhood therefore enhance the neighborhood and enhance your own property so you're taking a ranch and and effectively what you're doing is this is still going to not blend in the neighborhood to me this house was built at a different time period than the houses that exist there now so you have a chance right now and this board has a chance to help you achieve something that would enhance that neighborhood by doing something with a different type of treatment and i think it would be it would behoove you to take a look at that because i think ultimately it up with a much more valuable piece of real estate than what you're proposing obviously you've got plenty of leeway to do a hip out of anything the hip roof is actually going to make the home look even smaller and not as tall so you know you've got a huge face on this you could you there's just there's an opportunity here for you guys to do something i think it would be nice if there was until next weekend and it's a question with a common time and i looked to see if there was a the house in the context of the street and then there wasn't that so if that could be included i mean i think that's a simple task nicad that in for the i would i would look at that would even call out to your point their job on the roof lines or for this proposed house as it stands and even if they made those changes that you're discussing it would even heighten the appearance of the houses not coming in and overwhelming the neighborhood actually it's fitting in nicely but there are some design question right again it's not it's like when you bought the house the way it is the ranch thrilled that you guys are doing something with it but what i don't want to see is me personally i don't want to see you do something that is going to stick out just as much as something that was maybe post war then than what you have now i mean it's i mean what you have now i think is one story it's it's not so i could be quite as uprooted as obtrusive as cherry picking you are probably the first applicants we have ever seen where actually the numbers that you have related were more unfavorable to your case than the ones britain when we did our standard calculations of how the mass would compare to the a potters our definition of a batter's was somewhat different from the ones that we could easily see where your number came from your number project in a more unfavorable light you did our calculation did so as barber says this is good news and i think again my to go back to my earlier remarks my concern is your point that to make it to fit to make a legal two family one would have to come back want to have to put in another driveway and so on and so forth is indeed the  it is a small town we live here and we're actually aware that there are numbers of illegal multifamily homes and they get this does not go to your plans it just goes to as we look as i look at the plans for the house my does this lay itself out as a two family with an additional accessory apartment in the basement really easily and because of that concern one of the one of the issues that we have not discussed as a board is was an idea i picked up at our last planning board meeting is whether we should consider since this is a single family there's no plans to make it into multiple family whether we should do the following one is we should ask that the one family restriction be recorded with the deed we had i had some discussion  with sammy baghdad about this afterwards and he felt it was quite a good idea actually the second is whether as part of the special conditions we should impose a limit on the number of electrical meters gas meters water meters that can be installed i am not whether the whether we can do that is not clear to me and i understand that there is there may be a second water meter or irrigation system and so on so we have to refine that but clearly by making it difficult and again are not talking about your house your use is a house we are talking about the use of the house for the next fifty or sixty years it's harder to cut up a house because at least with those two we can have a lot of enforcement that would probably be another topic of in to discuss with to add to our agenda of items to discuss with  n and since having a discussion with the gas company is more challenging it being a much larger organization we would have to talk with glen about whether during the water department and they'll not minas a polite we can also have a discussion with the departments about this as a general policy i think younger if i understand your intent in terms of this house we can certainly say things about how you build that but in terms of enforcement and the single family house that's a forced marriage the other thing is if you put it i mean we can certainly talk about that but i don't know if you have to with that the if you put that in the deed and the zoning changes ok then you've superceded their right to change their house with new zoning in place like if you're in a commercial and it changes and it changes to some sort of a residential we can build more things if you put out you put proviso in that that the land could not be developed as a single family house or something i think that's getting in the way of the owner property rights because i think things are going to change or if they don't change they may change in time but the put it deed restriction that's going to go through through time on this and can only be removed by a legal process i disagree fundamentally with your in that we have we clearly there's only in clearly gives us a right to control density yes that is absolutely one of the three pillars of the single rest and see zoning and to the extent that this is a tool for controlling density it seems to me there may be other objections to it but it seems to me a perfectly appropriate tool for the board to look at i think  think in terms of dent to them i think we have to clear on that if it's because if it's the amount of people who are for the structure in place because one of the things that we talk about many times in terms of projects that come to us is the density that it's going to be in the neighborhood of the density tends to be the dimensions of the building what's  all that we know from many of these houses that are quite large there are not you know ten people in those houses used you know four people in the house and so in terms of density are we talking about the number of people  we regulate that as part of the special permit process are we talking about the density of the structures in the built environment we again look at the list and you know i'm not sure how long we want to stand on this point tonight we're going to continue the hearing if you look at impact the list of impacts on the neighborhoods the number of families the discrete family units because it impacts traffic it impacts the rhythm of life it impacts no you are absolutely i think it's not the number of people in the family it is the number of families living in the yo  we should regulate that zoning talks about single family out of this and that's what it's being built well this is probably if it turns out that we cannot do it which is a with process on things and i think one of the advocates talked about how we're talking about architecture and other things we talk about architecture to diminish the impact on the neighborhood things and then we then we came  these last time the reason the issue hasn't been raised is that in terms of any of our standard measures total living area floor area ratio it cetera there is no issue so that we have sort of a nun do spinning that the size of what they're going to build in terms of total living here is acceptable within this range i don't want to put words yes absolutely that was not the intent here and some yes we will be working jeffrey will coordinate a meeting of the working group which will consist of two members of the board and geoffrey prior to our next meeting the second i was in favor i thank you very much all right and with that  avenue to consider the application of robert cowen and lauren santa to amend a previously granted special permit in order to one construct a wall to create an office space on the first floor to add a half bath in closet to the basement three change the handrails on the front and rear steps to wrought iron and the rear steps to granite and four at a copper roof over the garage entrance located at one twenty two a release street lot b three also known as one twenty waverly street and a general residence zoning district thank you does the applicant wish to any comments from those in attendance they have had a set of circumstances happen where they're now coming before the board for a special permit i don't think i don't see the difference in the i preferred the fact that the before the board again but i don't see the difference if a preview for the eventual home where it comes before the board to ask for these changes i think that more than likely what i'd like to increasing the size of the home they're not really doing in my mind much to the hope of adding that i think i see the basement in the bathtub in the basement as not you know adding more people or creating more density i see it as a convenience thing and i think that i'm hoping that they got the message that you can't come before us with one set of prints and maybe make changes without asking before you do and i think they got that i think that's why they're here but i don't think they're asking for anything extraordinary i really don't so my finish of it i think they've done are a really nice driver and handsomeness because i can remember what used to sit on the lot i really have no issues i don't think they're asking for anything extraordinary here that's my knee jerk reaction but i generally agree with that i think i would just like to add that you know for as we encourage future applicants to watch these hearings the half bath in the basement is a very case by case basis i agree with joe that in this instance i don't think it's going to add to the density of the neighborhood it would have been better to have asked permission and forgiveness for sure i think we've made that point clear but i guess the broader message to the community is that this is not sort of a license that in every yes i agree with what's been said i mean i think we've made that we've made the larger point that we wanted to m and i do think it is important to balance the equities here and you know that went up once a special permit was given in the same mind as i look at it in the same way that the builder needs to build what's in the special permit the neighborhood needs to say ok this is not what's allowed and it's shouldn't be the signal for just ongoing guerrilla warfare i was really surprised to see the police here last time i mean just seemed a little over the top and so i very much agree you know i think and the applicant made a presentation to the last time is there anything additional that you'd like to say if so please step to the microphone and introduce yourself ok i would just extend mr just comments to the landscape plan it is not clear to me that it's drawn to scale it's something your architect should look at and ensure that it just viewing the house from the public sidewalk viewing it through google earth  it would be good to have the architect look at it and the other question would be sent this is a this is a very small lot and it's a very this is a dance it's a small lot this is increasing visual density there were letters from neighbors but no letters from the neighbors directly behind you who would be the ones most impacted by this is whether some landscaping to break the con the break the part there's a lot of parking i have questions a question it would be good if your landscape if your architect could check the lot coverage and open space calculations and just give some thought to what if anything should be done to screen the and so at the last hearing initial hearing i had raised the question about what details they could provide and i saw that there's this concrete sonic tube so for those of us who have not gone to before us they have these pretty poor concrete piers and my question was to jeffrey i mean is there a standard that we're going to or that for i mean that is sufficient because i'm not my concern structural pieces were less robust for the then the two story to back that just came before so that's why i was asking that question that was a concern that i had from the previous me and also that the question that all obviously the access will be created from the third floor attic that is now being finished so there will be a door that will be going out to the porch obviously which is you know the  require depends on how you define closing the screening can be considered in closing are you for are you talking about making it for season you made it for season room you'd have does not know how you intend to use the space but if it's relevant to the question of how over the lifetime of the house faces likely to be used i am there is says storage and not notice it would be a good place for the kids and we do not have full we do not have plans for the first floor is that correct correct because this is about the deck ye terms of understanding how well this would lay out is a three family house yes it would be interesting to see what the first floor looks like now and the first floor is exactly same it's just for for the second floor and the third floor that would be very attractive and marketable etc perhaps not for this family but it's a model that would work well because i have a unit that has a kind of odd roof line inside that has like a galley kitchen there's no stove but there's a microwave and a saint in there they can work but that's something that only is in the context of these porches that building stairs to access to the three levels is you know not a big cost and somebody with a vision to do that could do it quickly because the big work has been done already right that is the three levels  building and ready to accommodate so is to the ground level and how the interior might be configured and indeed what the basement i mean this is three decks a yes but the fact that you're stacking them means they only count once the footprint correctly pressures to put right just the footprint but i would you know i would have a very hard time seeing three disks here on this or we should sort of have a sense of who we want to go with three decks of this or not and then decide on the details of that i think that's the third one and the trophy but you know that's you know that's what we decide on so this is one of those cases that i think the best of the square footage is not go for this three configuration and i don't think i would vote for any three get configuration here and i have some concern about the size of the first and second one but the so yeah that's another thing the first thing i think in my view possible because we won't interfere others privacy let me just mechanically explain smart mechanically the way the process works is that in order to in order to receive a special permit you need a super years before you could resubmit the application and i think it unlikely that you would receive a majority of votes a super majority of votes on board this evening so you may wish to withdraw the application and consider as mr clarke said you have the alternative of simply rebuilding the parks that you have that doesn't require any permit you have  the the ability to come back with a revise plan that deals with the concerns you've had this evening and what it is your choice as to whether you withdraw or whether you ask us to vote but if you ask us to vote and we vote in the negative you will not be able to come back with this plan for two years ok my math half a question say if you are only h that this application before you shows an expanded first floor and shows expanded their floor and the addition of a third for your back so if you just simply remove the dak there for that are still expanding the first and second floors and she and six feet deep the new porch bottom level is against remains fifteen by three but there is as you said we doubled the base and the middle  thirty feet you know  right i agree with that one other detail that you know much on that just occurred to me as i look at your the pictures of your house which is very dark that i would actually like to know yeah if i might be like bright white