so tonight we will have another meeting of the hauen city council it proves that it promises to be an interesting meeting or glad that you are here in person or that you are viewing on line that you have care about your community enough to think about it and stay tuned to what's going on so the seignior to start with the roll call please and as we have for many years with an opening prayer led by council member struck and followed by the pledge of allegiance please join us by standing if you are able invite you to join us in this prayer or become puno you love us here us you know what the best for all of us thank you for your presence with us tonight inspire our discussions demeanor and decisions in a week where we celebrate our country's independence to make us always aware of the cost of freedom help us to value justice to offer apply it fairly and really well those who actively garters against aggression a we raise up our colleague and brother wayne as you recovers from surgery we ask your cause and heal quickly completely with the comfort of your presence be felt by him and his family and give him renewed energy and spirit to carry on lord please let this be so  will now read the consent to jenna and i will do that for us and that is a whole list of items that we planned on handling with one vote after they are all read if however you have come here because you want to address one of those items at the end of his reading we will open it up for you to tell us which item you would like pulled off the consent to genda and then we'll handle that item in its sequence as it is listed so first of all ana could you please read the consent to jenna item four eight excuse the absence of council member com parent item four b to approve the minutes of the feb twenty fourth joint special meeting and study session march thirty study session in the june fifteenth holdings for the establishment of two industrial development districts be communications received from michigan department of natural resources regarding the resolution previously adopted by council for the establishment of a no we don't in the near as of late for investigation and inquiries into the need for special marine rules for motorised watercraft item twelve a one to approve a lot of authorization from the michigan power public agency by the how important public works general manager as part of the energy services project for approximately three point five megawatts of wind energy from here on wind  pending approval asked for by the city attorney twelve eighty two to approve increasing the how on board of public works board management and board professional annual salary structure by one point nine percent to become effective july one two thousand item twelve eighty three to approve the new job classification changes by adding a broadband services manager system specialist and regulatory compliance specialist and to eliminate one network specialist and  truck production services supervisor for the how on board the public works twelve do you want to refer claim filed against the city to the city's insurance carrier and city attorney for consideration twelve to you to approve a license application submitted by joseph baker topper a rubbish collector business known as may be joe's twelve point one two approve the mechanical and electrical inspection contract between the city and how once charger township which will allow the city to provide electrical inspection services to the city of seal on twelve eat three point one to approve a budget amendment in the amount of sixteen thousand four hundred forty one dollars and forty cents for emergency repairs made to the well at at the mater being complex center on june seventh two thousand and sixteen twelve efore point wanting to declare three city vehicles a surplus and authorized staff to dispose of all items in a manner that is most advantageous to the city twelve  four point three to approve the bid in purchase of a two thousand and seventeen ford transit van from signature ford at a total cost of twenty one thousand eight hundred forty to be paid from the centralized vehicle equipment found twelve efore point four to schedule a public hearing for the july twenty eighth two thousand and sixteen council meeting to create an industrial development district for property located at seven sixty east fortieth street twelve eve five point one two approve of federal bureau of justice assistance grant in the amount of a lot and thousand two hundred twenty five dollars to be used toward law enforcement equipment twelve point two to approve the purchase of replacement canine for public safety and the training for the dog and handler from northern michigan canine in the amount of twelve thousand from five hundred dollars with the cost to be appropriated from the special donations fund as a fiscal year seventeen budget amendment twelve  point two to approve the amended exchange agreement between the city and property used to remove any and all references to vehicle access in the alley twelve east six point three true prove the thirtieth twenty twenty six point four two approve of revokable license agreement with mack dustin's ltd doing business as but just dry dock for the installation of an awning located at forty four east eighth street twelve east six point five to approve a revokable license agreement with our j p enterprises for an installation of a projecting sign for parents lounge located at two thirty four south river avenue twelve six point seven to approve a two percent adjustment to the general group wage and salary schedule for the general group full time in year round part time a and b classified employment positions and twelve east seven point one to declare the electronics ultra nexus server as surplus and to instruct staff to dispose of it in a manner that is most advantageous to the city thank you and so that was a long list on the consent of gender perhaps one of those items was something you came to address at this meeting if that's the case please come up to the podium give us your name address and which item you would like remove from that consent agenda one council members does anyone here have an item that hanna read you'd like to remove from the consent agenda seeing nine we have a motion motion to week that has been suggested in the light of the fact that it's the twenty fifth anniversary of the americans with disabilities act which is pretty apropos in light of our thinking a t a i compliance at the civic center this  evening but this proclamation we have prepared in order to think about that whereas in july twenty fifteen people with disabilities in our supporters celebrated the twenty fifth anniversary of the american was there with disabilities act a whereas there are over fifty million people with disabilities of all ages living in communities throughout the united states and whereas the disability military community has a critical interest in issues and acted at local state and national levels that affect the integration of people within disability young and old into our communities whereas getting the disability community involved in influencing public policies is essential if these policies are to meet the real need people with disabilities to live in the community where is voting is one way for the disability community to exert their influence at local state and national elections and there are multiple efforts to develop disability coalitions around the issue of voting voting and where as right now as you see on your screen america register educate vote use your power is a national effort to encourage local and or state disability community voting conditions coalitions and where as members of the national disability rights community are organizing a national disability voter registration week for july eleventh through fifteen therefore be it resolved that the city of holland supports the growing involvement of the disability community in the political process and be it further further resolve that i as mayor on behalf of the city council and all highland residents do here by designate the week of july eleventh to  fifteen as national disability voter registration week i think that's something we don't always think about something really important that it's not easy for those with disabilities to be able to get to the polling places to be able to place their votes and i remember at one voting booth we put in a handicapped door or a handicapped button so that the gentleman there in the wheelchair was able to access the voting booth and the and so those are little things we so often take for granted that we really want to help our friends with disabilities and their ability to get registered so i will give this to anna as clerk and she will have that in her office and hopefully we can get the word out as well to help people get registered or whatever their personal situation is also we had a very special award that came to the city of highland and wondered if  it's not a spelling this is a certificate of achievement for excellence in financial reporting and this is not an easy thing to get many places never get it our finance department credit for that but my staff does an awfully good job i know you're the coach and your team won and we are really thankful for that because numbers make a big difference in how people feel about their community and how well their tax dollars are that's amazing government doesn't always get awarded you have to do above and beyond in order for people to recognize it's how we are really thankful for our our finance department also  tonight we have a great thing to celebrate in the process of working toward our civic center project we have approached different people throughout the community we know you know about the wonderful donation of jim and eileen herring for two million dollars for the civic center in naming the building after their parents his parents george and lucille herring guy and that's that was an awesome gift and we also received notification from dick hayworth and the hayworth corporation that they are generously doating donating five hundred thousand dollars in cash on a three year period beginning this coming january and along with that five hundred thousand dollars worth of pay worth furniture and design and installation for us at the civic center and so we are really grateful for the hayworth partnership through the years and you know  they are amazing people and in the city of holland there are so many that have the idea that our time and our treasures and our talents are not our own that we are given those in order to share with others and every time there is a public private partnership like this when a company steps forward to say you know we're busy with our company we're busy addressing all the all the challenges of competition and changing demographics and the difficulties in staying profitable in this world but we also care about where we live and we want to give back and so it was really an exciting thing to to get that call and to be able to make that announcement were very great grateful for their participation and we also had the announcement back on friday july first that we have been granted qualified energy conservation bonds that doesn't always trip off the tongue easily but we are very thankful for that because it means because of our energy stewardship and the proposed civic center building that we will be given three million dollars in savings because we will only have a one percent interest rate rather than the going rate three or four percent and all that money so we are very grateful to that to the state for that and it's also we're in close running and probably will have achieved one point five million in tax increment financing to help us in this entire effort with the civic center so  we want to open the public hearing after we have some presentations from staff and design people so that we understand what the civic center project really is at this point  thank you thank you mayor de boer members of the city council this is the culmination of many years of effort in discussing the need to reinvest in the civic center and create something that is appropriate for another sixty five years  this is also the culmination of an effort steffen initiated about four years ago to try to figure out how we could finance reinvestment needed given deferred maintenance so in the last several years the city council has grappled with an achievement funding mechanisms to return to a twenty years st plan we used to have to wait thirty five years to touch the streets in this year's budget you approved the plan that was just just about twenty years you've also approved funding stream for the building renovation for the fire stations which is was unknown four years ago now we have a plan and in a way to do that you've reinvested in city hall in recent years attic insulation new windows approved last fall there's painting repainting happening now that is way over my height limit using specialized equipment so there's significant reinvestment as well as in this room here there's been significant reinvestment so pool is will be reinvested in this fall after the season closes so these are some of the major projects needed in the last several years and all of them the bennett dressed the final one remaining  major is the civic center project so tonight you will hear from the design team followed by some as to how the design conceptual design evolved followed by me related to the scope that seems reasonable to optimize the building and site that's where the council coined during the budget process and then followed by the valley finance director to discuss the ways to fund this of course the public hearing but much and a resolution later after that and then later in the agenda there will be opportunity to talk about the way to to borrow funds which will be necessary to to fill the gap  and the city attorney is prepared to discuss those mechanisms that are available legally so with that i'd just like to close my initial remarks with making sure it's on the record that i live at one sixty eight west street which is due west of the civic center temps of the maid in my part to be impartial but i want anyone and everyone to know that as they hear me speak so with that i'd like to introduce greg way camp who is the project leader for the design team which involved five different professionals and this process was kicked off last year about this time given the lead gift and culminated in march with their final presentation and thank you greg for being here to make sure everyone has the same basic knowledge thank you thanks ryan in council and everybody for coming in this is really exciting because we started in this and a very cold dark snowing just after thanksgiving last last winter and really kicked up a process of listening which is really been what this has been about for us as a design team as a design process  it's a process of discovery about what what happens here what needs to happen here and so forth so for quick orientation you can see on the site there there's a little yellow box on the can a version sheet on the screen shows where the civic center site is relative to trying relative to the lake and i was that was one of most interesting things when we first are working in holland is that as i grew up in granville and had spent a lot of time out here i never really understood the relationship  downtown to the water in one thousand feet from the water at the civic center site and as that's all the work that's been done over the last several decades you know the short of this progressive march to the water and words were so much closer so that's an interesting thing just just that relationship we've never been up on the roof of the civic center the presence and proximity of the water something that's really obvious in the media so like that image so you know our process or design process i'm going to go through this is much for the benefit of some of the folks in t know you've heard all of this or much of this before i make sure that the community is is aware of our process that we are we spent a tremendous amount of time in listening mode stakeholder interviews we've probably spent six to eight weeks meeting with many many folks and we really arrived at this sort of vision statement that's on the screen before you and i can summarize it most that really came from some of the meetings with the stakeholder groups who are not from the big organizations in the big  you know the big everybody and we get through the time with their they're great and the you know all the different rec programs and stuff was great but what was really interesting to us was sort of the interaction with the folks who represented the parts of the community that aren't always recognized and they really addressed something special about the civic center that was encouraging to me was hey we don't necessarily feel welcome everywhere in this community which was a really hard thing to hear they feel like you know maybe maybe eight streets not our place or at which i think of as a visitor is a street  is everybody's place it's wonderful and i love it but but some folks are saying hey when i shop down there maybe i'm not so comfortable but you know i am comfortable it's the civic center that's our place that's my place and that was really interesting and it was really early on in the process i think was actually our first  their meaning and it was a really sort of a confrontational feel like you know so you're going to take our place and do something else with it and you're going to make it this other thing and all these wonderful things that we do here we're going to lose i just thought that was an interesting place to start from because it's a great jam and we all know about the holland holland christian games and all those things but it was the sort of smaller things that really came to the fore as something special something we needed to protect and build on and make sure that for the next years that this bill then serves all those folks particularly those folks who don't necessarily have the ability like a lot of us to just jump in a car and we'll just go to another facility or we'll just go downtown going after those we'll go there or will put our kids in a certainly you can we'll go to that it's not that big a deal yeah it's a little bit of money but you know it's our kids well not everybody can spend five hundred dollars to put their kid in a in a different program or thirteen hundred fifteen hundred we have all those conversations about what's elite and what's for everybody and the fact is  that the civic center creates opportunities for everybody to participate and sort of slices away the unnecessary things and gets to the core of what these folks want to do and they want to have after two opportunities to to recreate to get into the programs that handing his team r jeremy and ness in and be able to you know participate in things that everybody else gets to do but you know maybe they don't have the sticker on the back of the car and maybe they're not selecting the codes in the stuff but they still get to do it and that's what really came to us is that's what's precious about the civic center and that really kind of led us down this path that you'll see tonight it's been a very much a process of continual community involvement we had many many public meetings many of you are at a lot of them re cognize a lot of faces stakeholder interviews recreation programming workshop a market specific workshop one of our team members is very dedicated and is a national specialist on the market and we their concept assigned process and design iterative design process which just basically means we put up a lot of ideas you tell us what you like and you don't like and we change stuff and we come back and we seems like we keep coming back and keep changing it which is the idea but it's really about continuous budget review because we always knew from the start we had a target and we had continuous program assessment and we knew it was always going to be about purdy's in the end it's going to be about assessing what's most important to this community and so for now we had a lot of respondents who were first survey that first night the participation was a little bit limited so we put it online and got overwhelmed with and have come out of feedback which is great we had many many attendees at the stake all their interviews four hundred attendees at the  meetings on the mailing list we have a steering committee of seventeen folks seventeen folks which represented have another side that reps who they represented that were tireless in attending many many meetings and providing a constant sounding board and challenging the design team to go this direction or that direction and don't forget our goals workshops study sessions with council design trends and again a large design team these are just a list of the dates of all the different public press presentations we have i think there's about eight or nine of them there about every couple of weeks through march we had the steering committee which if we weren't doing a public meeting in here the other weeks we were typically having steering committee meeting i think we met nearly every week on average  maybe missed a few weeks around christmas and having progress sessions and study sessions so tremendous amount of feedback i you know i was feel like we've probably had more community feedback and input on this process than than any project i've done in the last ten years members constantly from day one we were constantly feeding back to the groups and i know many of those representatives were talking to the groups about hey this is what's happening there sort of a constant feedback back and forth there i was going to summarize all the articles i gave up when i got back to about february because there are so many so i don't know what else has been in the news in holland in the last three months but certainly this is you know a few different things and you know constantly talking about the big topics back in february and there was many more before that but it's exciting i think the primary point there is that it's really been a process of continual community i don't think our team has any secrets from a body we have certainly had many  conversations about the process the overall vision here is as you see this is a view of the entire civic center site and what's interesting is we can think of it as a civic center place now not just the civic center building here really integrates the farmer's market which is a crucial element in the farmer's market has always sort of existed next to the civic center there's this parking question and all these different pieces and one of the things that we learn from the community is we really want to link these two things together make them mutually supportive make them more than the sum of their parts and as you can see in the vision here we have you know the building itself extends northward to fully engage street and that engages in a way that creates interior spaces for the farmer's market pushing across to the north we have an outdoor park space that over time will create additional outdoor program activities space for the civic center we really focused on addressing that ten acres of asphalt that's out there and protecting the parking but creating sort of what we refer to as the southeast park that's going to allow for overflow parking on weekends when we need it to peak out for the farmer's market and when we don't need it we now have more active space for the neighbors to use a more pleasant space to be in and one that's more sustainable in terms of infiltration and addressing some of the site concerns there so really making a big difference with those elements as we dive in a little bit the core building improvements are about the modernization of the existing building and going to more making the farmers market which is a wonderful space it works great we had probably our most popular meeting with the farmer's market special specific public meeting we had i think two hundred people showed up and overwhelmed us in the north hall of the civic center which was fantastic we learned many things that were great and there are some small nit picky things that don't work and we're going to fix those gutters electricity stuff like that the southeast parking area really creating that green space that's useful all the time one of things we found is about ninety five percent of the time that parking lots empty five percent time it's overwhelmed we want to make sure that during that ninety five percent of the time it's more a more active more viable space that does a better job of serving the neighborhood and also focus focusing on a west market anchor that really drives these two things together so the southeast green space which is really focused on pedestrian paths and paving it's definitely something that we can park on we can use those activities when we need them for market and then we can use them otherwise we have parking trees we have drainage the west market anchor really is at the at the convergence of the civic center building where it links to that green space to the north and really focuses on creating the activity that the farmer's market right now  of peters out towards the west and we wanted to create an anchoring space where we can extend the vitality that market all the way to the building and bring them closer to the new restrooms and all those activities but also create water play and other elements so that when people are out there at the market they we can extend their time at the market and more activities and plus create more capacity for more market vendors and also have indoor market space for your own activities like we said gutters install markers and electricity and some other functional there so a more detailed list of all this ng's but like i said repairing the distant canopies creating twenty four covered market stalls which would be sixteen new markets also at all times are some vendors that really rely on having a covered space if you sell chocolate and you're out in the in the sun you're in trouble he was quite vocal and he was on the steering committee when we when we created this north hall when we expand the building to the north engage street that north hall space which is if you've been over the civic center that's that space kind of where the concession is think of that is it twice as wide as it is now and that whole north edge would be open with garage doors and sometimes it'll just open up in no feel like an indoor outdoor space and they will have all these new stalls and so folks can come in their pets inclement weather and in the wintertime that space will be an active winter market all year round so you know and so i think that this is what we sell and vegetables out in the snow so that should be fantastic but also creates indoor year on market space and it creates an indoor second a space we'll talk more about with the building completely new restrooms everybody loves to talk about the quality of the restrooms in the civic center today they were not they did not qualify as a historic improvement so we are able to rip them out and start over we're to completely new restrooms that also but they'll be accessible from just inside and just the outside so that we'll be able to have when when the market vendors show up at four in the morning they'll be able to get in the restrooms without necessarily opening the building so some simple basic security improvements there and removing some unnecessarily ballard's and some simple things that can make the site work a little better a really critical element of the site is not compliant right now not no way that we think of as universally accessible we really need to address all this and make it so that everybody regardless of age income ability can use the space with the same level of dignity as anyone else so certainly we need to improve the parking we need to improve the pedestrian linkages between the parking in the market and of course the  p the building the west market maker with the green gathering space in the water plane seating and so forth and then over time space for demonstration cooking activities that are really focused on this notion of wellness when we talk about the purpose of this building  wasn't about a really high level of fitness and competition it was more about a broader level of health and wellness for the broad community in education so these cooking activities could help folks again integrating the market with the building and the programming activists say you know hey i may be able to come here and i may be able to use my my food assistance to get double the value in the market but i don't even know how to cook some of us and my mother didn't teach me how to cook with that vegetable or this thing and this is some of the vendors can come in and can do demonstration cooking there are really working with county health organizations to to do education so we think that's a critical the market improvements a better system for the daily vendors clearly there are some things we can fix but a really important one was activating this market space much more often than wednesday morning and saturday morning those vendors don't want to come back on their days they are busy they have to grow food but we want to create additional market opportunities like a thursday night mercado or an arts performance activity so that thursday nights and friday nights and sunday afternoons we have different kinds of activities taking advantage of infrastructure we've already built you've already invested in it's wonderful we need to program it better than we have been and that also creates new opportunity for a more diverse body of vendors and you know let's recognize the diversity of holiday and make sure that the market is serving everybody will be addressing parking management to make sure that that functions well in just a few images of what things might feel like but in the evening market that's something we haven't seen in a while you know some other flash place so kids can go and get wet and this is the kind of evening kind of walking to these parks places that we want people to enjoy and that's quite a difference from some of the parking spaces that we enjoy now as it relates specifically to the  building the basics of the building have worked well for sixty years obviously many parts of it are worn many parts of it don't function well but we've heard time and again every single person we spoke to had a memory in this building you know be i graduated here a christian basketball games the hope college hope colleges games we want to completely renovate all of those functions to make them modern and functioning to today's standards that means new codes new agey access that has an impact on different things but you know some really basic things like air conditioning so that for the summer months we can now use the space there are many many opportunities to create opportunities for folks to use this building for a wedding receptions meetings  convention type activities but when you don't have air conditioning you can't guarantee that and you don't you lose people who are upgrading there but doing it in a way using districts that helps us qualify for the energy conservation bonds that were discussed earlier will be improving the quality th stage rigging and all those sorts of things lighting and sound so that the performance venue we've all enjoyed for sixty years can continue but can continue more capably you believe tours i promise you those existing would bleachers somehow are going to do something fantastic with them we're working on that those are so cool we're going to do something cool we're going to upgrade the finish is all the code improvements but when you come in it will feel very much the heart of the old space will be there but it will be modern it will be as if we built it just now  but the sort of the core of what was built will remain and you'll recognize it the normal expansion was really the primary thing that came out of the market expansion of the market opportunities with the community was looking at a more flexible  to make certain that every space that we build here is flexible and adaptable into the future so that you know we all know that you know sort of trends exist with with recreational activities we wanted to make sure that if we built a space that we didn't end up with well it's only good for one thing and so what we wanted to have is so this upper level for example we're going to take the upper level deck on the north side pick that seating out and make that floor level so that you know when you have an activity on the basketball floor if there's a basketball game going on you know other folks can be up in that space playing pick a ball or doing other activities if they're not going pick a ball they could be doing yoga it could be a public meeting just like this it could be a class a wedding reception a convention a very flexible space that we would hope is used throughout the day  we would be looking at indoor year on market space as i mentioned flexible classroom space and i can overlook bringing the building linking it to its street just imagine what it be like to be up on that balcony during the two of time parade and then over time earth top access to really see out of the water and connect downtown there we go the lobby improvement on the east side really is sort of setting it's a family room space it's a corporate reception area it's also a new front door so that when they took time buses come in and you know hundreds and thousands people come in and visit the space they really get that sort of great first impression we've talked about a level of quality as being how in quality there's a hand expectation it's not extravagant it's more of a focus on your ability and quality and an appropriate level of finish that's that's accurately representing who we are as a community and our values a flexible second floor space that also overlooks the gym overlooks the lobby space and for me use in rented out multi purpose support for things like the green room for the image you know this is the kind of space that that lobby might be when people first come in off the bus and they come in you know imagine the transformation from coming into the bathroom as we have today to coming into a space like this and into brand new facilities it's a little bit of a transformation but again it's also very functional space it's not just an empty room with a bunch of expensive furniture we think the space will be very well used to be again a place for interaction and we think it's appropriate and helpful there the demonstration kitchen idea and so forth for education everything from folks learning basic cooking skills to folks who want to interact with some of your best chefs in town to learn how to make a special those or something so some quick views of the building their new entry on the northeast corner that's really the new face of where you come into the building linking to eight street and then i view from from the west looking back the other way you can see the north pole expansion there which you can still see are sort of remnants of the previous building inside the core of it remains and ultimately the recommended project scope is facility modernization the north hall flexible space that used to reception space catering and demonstration kitchens making sure that when we have these events here we've got kitchen activities and kitchen facilities that support everything storage offices that happen in all those kinds of things the site improvements are about again making that space transform from an empty ten acres of parking to something that's really vibrant seven days a week ultimately this all comes back down to everyday use the building will be new the building will have new flexibility new opportunities new space for a chemist to occur but ultimately it's going to still serve all of the people that have been using it for the last twenty years the kind of the orphans that have no have had nowhere else to go we're going to still be here but it but be in a more capable space and that's where we are there any questions or i can sit down and we can move on to the next part of the presentation  to the next ok thank you greg welcome so i will do the next step here which is to discuss scope and what it costs you just heard about the recommended scope so what you're going to see is attaching that scope to the numbers one thing you just heard about the demonstration kitchen that was not in the recommended scope so you will not see it in these numbers you'll see it isn't as an option what that means is rather than sixteen point five million you'll see project at fifteen point one million which equals the recommended scope the actual amount of the bonding with the twelve million and you'll see how we get there so i kind of back into it by starting with the concepts of modernization and base building and optimisation and site improvements and they're all delineated here as two million seven point two million four point four million and one point five million we can come back to answer any questions about the detail in here but it does include yancey larry costs like the bonding the furniture roof upgrade east entry which is that the family room that you just saw it will come back to and the site improvements which includes that southeast park as well as the permits to the farmer's market marketplace and the water fountains at the west end so that totals fifteen point one million as the main building in sight and that equals the recommended scope how would that be funded well as mentioned earlier two million is  community fund raising continue and be related to the community service one can have an opportunity to participate and that's estimated at one hundred thousand when i leave gardens of course ended up with much more than that in terms of community support so we're thinking that's a conservative number when those numbers are subtracted from the earlier fifteen point one total we're committed scope you end up with twelve million dollars and that's what's recommended as a general obligation bond financing both to construct a parking structure as well as some other improvements related to the public infrastructure and the way that it's it's written the brownfield board in includes  the civic center place blocks so those funds over time can be used to help support the general obligation bond and we estimate that would equal one point five million and that would cover the southeast park and the market improvements as million so in summary what's before you tonight from the design team from the staff and by extension by the steering committee although many of them are here so they can speak as well during the public hearing is a fifteen point one million dollars project of which twelve million dollars is needed to support through bonds and of which ten point five million would actually accrue to the general taxpayer optional elements remain however  demonstration kitchen is could be an economic generator an incubator space there's lots of potential benefits to it yet it's recommended that that be subject to a corporate sponsor and should that emerge before the construction begins which is next february there would be no problem in building that into the plans but at this point it is not part of what's before you now there's also been discussions and later in the agenda is a memorandum of understanding draft with a tool of time which is looking who's looking for office spaces and that total is about a million four thousand square feet plus seven hundred square feet of storage and where it would be located it would be easily located second or third floor but that's up to the city council it could also be located on the first floor things are are you know evolved a little bit so but that would be covered should that happen because or by rent over time  those options total two point four million if other sponsorships came to pass if these options came to pass then the total cost of project to be seventeen point five cents we don't know that  now you're the resolution in front of you which is the action requested of you to consider at the end of the public hearing says approximately sixteen point five million and that's legal language provided by our very own city attorney so that will cover it depending on how devolves but also in that resolution it's it's it's defined is only twelve million associated with general obligation bonds so that's a fixed number that would not be exceeded i do need to know the conservation bonds produced just approved reduce the total interest by this is two to four million it's since been determined to be three million dollars in debt costs and that's based on whether it was you know a larger number or not it's a twelve million dollars giovanni so that's the three million dollars savings also as i noted in the demonstration kitchen occurs or to time would like to locate there than the total amount of the bond would change accordingly at the total taxpayer support would not so should the two time want to be part of this this resolution would need to be revised that twelve million would need to go thirteen million for example but we're not recommending that tonight because it's uncertain and i'm sure the two time board needs to be part of this as well as your discussions later tonight so in summary the twelve million dollars bond and recommended budget adjustment is before you to do the scope that you just heard i want to close with a couple of background slides these are past buildings finance and constructed by the city councils related to council approvals and they range from three million two hundred fifty eight million us and relate to buildings  hiring financial advisors and and determining the project manager determining the construction manager contract next week or possible authorizing a friends of the civic center place for that community fundraising element bond sale would happen on or about december second under that scenario there be final events in december and perhaps a final holiday how the christian game i generate sex with kickoff and construction began either general night virgin or twenty third depending on a detail we can cover later with rev and cutting july of two thousand and eighteen so it's recommended that you discuss the potential funding scope sixteen and half million is what's in the helping to spel finance the state law and has been designed so that there is a public process in accomplishing funding for projects and so that's what needs to happen there be some sort of bonds issued and  ryan and we've talked about twelve million dollars there's a table in front here and talk about that in just a minute before i do the other thing that ryan said it's very important is that we've been allocated  from the state of michigan eleven million dollars of what's called a qualified energy conservation bond this is actually a federally subsidized program that came through the stimulus act back in  thousand and eight i believe and there was an allocation of funds that were given to each state the midst of the state of michigan did not use up all of its allocation in that time period there's not a sunset on this clause so that allows the  federal government actually to pay back a portion of the interest costs to the city in the form of a qualified energy conservation bond we've met the criteria to reach that standard with this project and that's go allow us to save approximately three million dollars of interest costs are going to be borrowing money for approximately one percent which is quite a staggering low number so in essence for the way most of us would think is we're going to be borrowing money almost like that deal they advertise cars for you know it's interest free or pretty darn close so that's what we're going to be talking about and so that's going to save us an awful lot of money which means that we don't have to allocate as much money in milledge that would have to dedicate towards paying that interest portion of the debt back for the most part repaying principal over a twenty year period in front of you is how do  that ariel in front of you as a table and for those of you are really missing a chart now you have one in front of you to feel comfortable with and what this shows us is how much money the city of holland will be spending over the next several years in debt service costs and so this gray line and on the bottom is the years sixteen seventeen eighteen nineteen twenty etc the gray line shows how much we didn't do anything how much we're going to be spending about how much money a year we were spending and you'll see in in fiscal year seventeen it's about two point four million dollars in and sit in fiscal year eighteen it's two point five million this little blue line is if we were granted the call if it qualified in g conservation bonds however that's not true and you are now you know there were going to be borrowing at this level so there's as little bit of a gap between here of what we're going to have to borrow over these next three years all right and then you'll notice this great line where our existing debt falls off in one in fiscal year twenty one what that means is that we're paying some debt off right here some road bonds and so that in in fiscal twenty one we're going to be spending one point nine million now if we have our qualified energy bonds we do twelve million dollars of debt it means that we're going to be right in this range of the amount of money we're going to have to pay back in debt in fiscal twenty one and then in twenty two it's about the same but then you'll notice this chart falls right down to zero in fiscal twenty three which means we've paid off all the debt that we currently have for these kinds of infrastructure projects so what happens then is we would be paying debt right at about eight hundred thousand dollars a year in the year fiscal two thousand and three compared to what we are currently paying our own two point five million so for taxpayers the pratchett average property owner we would there would be a lower amount of money of the milage that the voters have previously offered authorized the city to to lobby the voters would actually have a lower portion dedicated towards towards debt mills or paying back money that we borrowed it's possible that we would do other projects in this period of time which would raise that number up and there has been some conversation about some recreational facilities so this sort of gives us a picture of what the debt situation looks like for the city of holland i'm going to talk about one of the options that have been discussed in a prior meeting the possibility of having the voters approve this milledge and others have the voters approve it additional milage to pay for the civic center debt and currently  we will allocate what the voters approved to the city back when we put the charter and place fifty years or more years ago and at that time voters said city hall and you're authorized to levy up to about twenty mil per year city hall doesn't levy that much so we have room where we can actually lobby morph we wanted too if if we were put this to the vote and asked for the voters to increase the amount that we could lobby for this not that we necessarily would increase the amount that we do levy but that we could levy then all properties would have to pay that debt milledge currently there's one classification of tax incentives that are not required to pay a debt milage to the city of holland and those are properties in what's called the renaissance zone renaissance zones are excluded from paying any taxes except for what's called voted debt so for the example in the schools issue debt they vote in the voters say we agree to spend i think the school milage recently was for seventy three million if i remember right we agree that we will spend seventy were authorized taxes to be raised to meet the debt service and that amount so that those properties within a renaissance zone do have to pay that all right so i may be in the weeds too far with you guys but if we did a voter approved debt there is what i believe to be about one hundred twenty four thousand dollars additional funds that could be collected or levied to properties that are currently exempt from paying any kind of debt milage currently and i will explain that the next if we issue these bonds over the next ten years on their real estate portion they would pay approximately fifty seven thousand four hundred dollars personal property taxes is a large amount of money for property taxes so in five years all of that goes away and there will be no taxes paid there is terms of personal property so the levy to that facility would no longer pay this amount of money after a five year period so the most amount of money that would be paid by that facility over a five year or the next ten years would be one hundred twenty four thousand dollars that's assuming twelve million dollars of debt in assumes that none of the personal property depreciates in the next five years which this is a very conservative estimate council did ask me to show one other piece of information and i bring this up at some risk of confusing people we had a we had this chart and you'll see that there is a difference between what we currently are levying and what we would have to levy potentially so if we were to raise the taxes and ask the voters to pay for more milage in this three year period here the question was what would that cost an average hundred thousand dollars hollis i'm assuming a fifty thousand or taxable value and that would mean just to cover that gap there that we described an average one hundred thousand dollars house would pay in the first year twenty two thousand dollars and five cents a second or seven hundred sixty five and  that's assuming no q how are we now know that we haven't it allocated the funds so if we were to pay if we were to levy additional taxes for that gap right in these three years here those properties would pay seven dollars and seventy five cents more than they currently would in two thousand and eighteen and one thousand and twenty all right so i've thrown a lot of data out there tonight we're going to be asking a counselor consider authorizing a resolution that allows us to proceed with the bonds and if so be we will be prepared next week to have some contracts  n proposals in place from our bond attorney from a financial advisor suing it going on the same because it takes a while to get all these things done me further add that we've been talking about twelve million dollars of debt certainly it's possible that if we need to add the tulip time facility there it's possible that number goes to thirteen million but for most of us i think the twelve million dollars a good number for us to be thinking about in terms of what the taxpayers will pay ryan already mentioned that of that twelve million dollars one and a half million is going to come from what's called tiff financing which means that it's a capture of money so that the milage amount which i know we're weeds with you guys but the milage amount is going to be based on about ten and a half million that's going to need about eight hundred thousand dollars milledge there to accomplish that and and that's typically point eight mills for the city o  tim we appreciate all of those presentations to give us the full picture and now we'd like to open it up for a public hearing this is the time for you to step forward and tell us what you think about this project and its scope for the city of holland you have five minutes to speak each come up to the podium and give us your name your address and then go ahead the green light means you're on the yellow light means you have one minute left and the red by means the five minutes are over this is your time to speak our time to listen so we will just be listening to each of these comments at the closing of that then it will be our time to talk in the context of what you have told us and what we need to think about in order to come to a decision tonight so we're opening the public hearing if anyone has something they would like to address council with please come to the podium at this time i can't come in not speak i'm nathan box i live at seven twenty local drive here in holland i'm a local small business owner a member of the most recent civic center steering committee a member of the two a time board of directors i've been a tour guide in holland for over twenty years and a resident for the last thirty years met america how nsel you all know how i feel about civic center project i've been here before and it's no secret that i am a strong proponent of this project as a steering committee this is the plan that we supported as a tour guide i would love to see holland have a new front porch a new living room in new bathrooms for our guests as a resident and a business owner i can tell you that this is the type of project that is community building and it will be a focal point to help attract and retain a quality workforce for holland holland is a stellar community but the civic center is an eyesore how in need this project how and wants this project one of the primary goals of the steering committee was to get this project done we didn't want to put in the hours of time and effort without results please give us those results now if i understand mr viki's numbers correctly and i just checked with them and so i think i do the proposed plan would cost a hundred thousand dollars household in the first year about seven hundred seven dollars and seventy five cents a it would decrease after that let first year that's two cents a day i'm ready to pay two cents a day the works been done the plans in place please don't delay this any longer over two cents a day thank you the name's jury to me i live it two forty four west night street city resident also the chair of the sustainability committee i too am a number of the committee and we need this project we need to take care of it get it done also i'm a proponent for the kitchen make sure we do the kitchen don't leave this out we need the kitchen so we can sustain the events that go on at the civic center please don't leave the kitchen out i'm in favor of it move forward thank you to clarify the kitchen the kit we will have the kitchen if we find a corporate sponsor at this point there is a catering kitchen included in the base building however so events could be support any other comments good evening and my name is jerry shall i live it sixteen sixty three sol shore drive now that's in park township i have to say that for the record i hope it's all right if i make some comments as an outsider looking in from that aspect but my wife and i love going downtown and holiday and even though we live in park township we spend most of our time downtown holland it's beautiful it's vibrant there are many people there on the weekends it's incredible we have an a crew incredible asset there the civic center  totally needs renovation it is an eyesore and i think what's being proposed is the perfect solution to that as far as the beauty of it and really the connection to that downtown area right there and you think about it where is a civic center leading to the newly renovated one is leading to that lake shore and i remember when i worked with soren will former city manager and al mcginn former mayor and many of you on council here today from the years two thousand and three to two thousand and eight on the heinz walkway that was just another edition of what can be done and i remember working with all of you and with the heinz corporate attorneys and management in pittsburgh saying this is the absolute right thing to do for the community and the culture of heinz to work within the communities where it does business and i can remember after those five years of finally getting that dedicated on two thousand and eight i can remember standing on that walkway and thinking and looking at colin park out there without walkway a beautiful park  and thinking gee we need to have the cruise ships coming in here we need to have a way to have more tourists come into the community and to me the civic center is one giant step down towards that lake shore and i know that that's well in the future and it's not the purpose of today but it is a key important st mentally get there we should with yes that we have on that shoreline right there we should be able to have cruise ships and more tourists clamoring to come  holland just like many other communities on the michigan lake shore we have the perfect assets right there i do know there are real issues regarding residences and local businesses and so on and  ther development but what i do know that in the way it was worked with hines and the city and the cooperation between us the where there is a will there is a way to make it a reality and so i just like to say it's such an important step toward a real vision that i've had and i'm sure many of you also have and to bring more  economic benefit to the community through queues ships and more tourists and some coming here so again i'm an outsider looking in and i'll admit that but we don't love the city us because we're an outsider who just happen to be we bought a property in one nine hundred ninety nine that happened to be available and within our means met our requirements and our means  afford to buy it and it happened to be a few blocks away from the city limits on shore drive but i just want to make those comments thank you thank you  my name is sally tapley i live at three twenty hunters one circle which is right over the fence from howland east from twenty fourth street when i grew up in holland i lived on  civic center was the focal point of interesting things to me as a child such as the harlem globetrotters can you imagine what that was like in the fifty's for us circus went to a circus  sunday evening him sayings countless basketball games and dances after football games in the winter and i bring this up because i hope that as we go forward with  civic center that we won't lose that idea that that concept that belief that this is the place for every citizen and i was so pleased to hear you say that that so many people had said that to you don't lose the ability the openness the willingness for every each people to attend so i'm here to say please vote on this please move forward we have elected you to do that on our b half i think you have heard many different voices you have amended your ideas because of this so please go for it and vote tonight and i wish and hope that you approve this project thanks thank i'm pagan grow i live at one forty five columbia avenue and i have lived in holland now for fifty eight years so i feel i've seen buildings come and i've seen long progresses in terms of getting the decisions and the realities to fruition and i also know that there have been council members and there have been many people who have been in this community who've made these things happen and holland is an unusual place and i'm proud to be a part of it and i hope that you will stand as i am sure you will in the footsteps of the people who have preceded you and i would just like to thank you all greg your team of people of the committees who have that worked so hard and all of you council people who have put so much thought and concern and you've invested for not only today but for the future thank you thank you p any other comments ok we will close the public hearing and now we will move to our discussion and when like to start the discussion about the civic center project supported by peter's ron would you like to tell us what that it's sure the city charter commits to the council the authority and responsibility to go forward with public improvements as  appropriate and to care for a public improvements that we already have such as as a civic center and so again year that is in your discretion to decide the resolution reflects that you've conducted a public hearing you receive the input from  managers office and the consultants and if adapted the resolution would then indicate that you've decided it's it's appropriate and necessary to go forward with the project as presented what will happen then besides a budget event and that was mentioned earlier what will happen then is that the city manager will then come back to you with construction plans construction management agreement and and bids from subcontractors to approve and th contracts will be put in place and the process with your approval and then the process will go forward but the resolution before you is is just a beginning step to get the ball rolling on that project and the other important thing is it does focus on the scope of the project that resolution recites that that the scope of the project is the sixteen approximately sixteen point five million dollars we don't know the exact scope of that until a few more details get flushed out but that seems to be a good place to be at right now and then the twelve million dollar bonding in addition to private contributions to finance that thank you is mike  a technical question if we have we've received some correspondence that was just delivered just to to us tonight do we need to vote to have that as part of the public record or if it's read right now would a lot of medically automatically become part of the public record i think we should have that read into the record that i think that was there one letter yes there i think that letter should be read into the public record if you would allow me than we received a letter tonight dated july sixth from a former colleague former mayor of this group bob and of us who because of a previous commitment was unable to make the meeting tonight but he wanted just to know his civic center please accept these comments as my participation renovations to the structure have been contemplated for many years and an updated facility could better meet many community needs while i continue to be generally in favor of the project there are several areas which i have questions and concerns i wonder about the wisdom of the demonstration commission kit demonstration kitchen it is clearly a big ticket item i appreciate that inclusion in the project is contingent on finding a donor for the capital cost but i also ask you to consider the long term operational cost of such a facility it seems to me that both the opportunities for use and a return on investment would be limited at best i feel that the same can be said for the development of the rooftop space on the north side of the building in a different location i might be convinced but from this site any view to lake bachata would be severely compromised by the sights sounds and smells from adjacent commercial and industrial users between the facility and the water one such major entity has a direct benefit from the use of waterborne transportation so i would expect them to remain for the city for the forseeable future i am curious about the reappearance of bleachers of bleacher seating in the auditorium bleachers are best suited for watching competitive sports or sporting events and as basketball or volleyball which seem to be declining as a use of the civic center facility further they leave much to be desired for spectator comfort and present significant challenges for s s ability i question lead for their inclusion thank you for the first of all jerry if you're looking for house in the city we can we can figure that out we'll find you and you know what but all seriousness with this project let's talk about quincy this is our first time on town so we're looking at something really really big and i was thinking about sixty five years and not to give anything away but sixty five years from now i'll be ninety if i'm still around and  just thinking about the gravity of of the decision in terms of the lasting impact beyond just sitting at this table but the people that will be in this in the future holland  so i wanted to talk a little bit about my shirt upstairs in the recession some of my thought processes were we've been engaging in the dialogue around this and do some reading and a couple of things i found kind of a framework for when you're coming into really tough decisions and a process for thinking through that so the first thing i want to do is to take the emotion out of it both the positive on the high end the frustration on the opposite ends and say let's let that subside and kind of think through from a practical and pragmatic standpoint is what we're talking about are these wise decisions and second thing is to kind of critically review your proposal and say you know where there are opportunities to improve that's been going on longer than i've been alive at this site so i think that's that's been processed through and through but again just as we're looking at kind of this proposal in front of us where there's more there's opportunity third is looking at big picture so how would this decision and this investment affect other things that we as a collective or want to invest in other goals that we that we have  positively or negatively or at all and just kind of understanding that in the context of the bigger picture you talked about recreation and the change with the space in terms of where recreation would go to mention about this project and the effect that it would would kind of become a catalyst for starting conversations about where wreckage would end up in the city because i think it's a key component you look at families and people specially use in the summer getting involved in organized sports and recreations and jeremy and he and team do an outstanding job of programming so what what effect will that have i've heard plenty of times in my short time on council about sidewalks bike paths parks other things  it will this have any effect on some of the other goals that we have and how will how would this decision in terms of fact those and then the fourth thing i think you know i'm businessman a every day but but one of the key responsibilities here that's not lost on me is the responsibility of this group to really mitigate risk and protect the downside of an investment that's this big and understanding consequences both good and bad of a decision of this magnitude what what what are we taking on from a debt standpoint how it how that would affect us how it affects taxpayers families people looking to move into the city  and so as i've been processing all of that there's a there's a lot of things when i take emotion out that make a lot of sense there's a lot of needs that are fulfilled in what's been presented there's also some things that i would agree with so i think the demonstration kitchen which i'm glad to see that that was pulled out and it's just not probably the best use of money in my opinion and and as i'm kind of asking that question so what is what is the best use of money one of the things that i want not to be lost on this group and people that took time to come here tonight is this council's already approved eleven million dollars for the building and so what we're talking about tonight is to increase on top of that to meet the goal of funding this so it's not a it's not a nothing or everything conversation tonight so you can you can rested at ease about that in terms of the lack of action that's existed in the past but i definitely have concerns from a financial standpoint about the cost per square foot that we're looking at investing in is this really the best use of space when i look at the green space element that a lot of people have talked about from a parking standpoint this isn't going to be a rec center anymore and are we holding on to components of that that are limiting us from becoming world class at other things to for thinking about recreation being a world class facility another location so not at all against what's proposed here but especially first time through and something serious i want to make sure that everyone knows that  i'm excited to hear more about that the conversations in dialogue and college are going to have but this is serious and everybody up here is taking it very seriously and are are here to act  make decisions but not to just rush into something because we feel like they other people have and so we need to and that's one of the things that's made this city great for a long time is people that have sat at this table that have said let's take a second talk about it and let's make a decision that's going to last longer than just me but that's going to have a lasting impact so that my comments and thoughts so you know thank you brian any more well i'm glad to hear the brother lin is taking this seriously because you should it's and we all should i chuckle a little bit because it reminds me of my initial days on council to when the weight of of this responsibility seems overwhelming so i appreciate your comments the other countenance from my colleagues that we talk about upstairs about you know finances and report that i've just come back from two weeks of vacation and a couple of things i noticed during that time one is when the rapture comes there's going to be a whole lot of disappointed baptists because they all think they have their first church so when they all get together and they realize that there's a whole lot of others who are thinking in the same way well there's going to be some aspiring to do that has nothing to do with this issue i just find it amusing that the other that that i found the end surprised me a little bit is that wherever we went down this two lane road from michigan city indiana to wilmington north carolina we kept seeing the signs of visit historic downtowns wherever somewhere as a bill every downtown seems to be historic i didn't know there was that much history out there so from brown county indiana to give only to north carolina used we saw these these efforts to showcase the history of communities and certainly part of the thinking was to lighten the wallets of people who come through it something that we're a little bit familiar with here as well but the other thing that we saw as we spent time in these places is that they became not just those tourist  the community you saw local folks gathering you know to have dinner a beer listen to music or just hanging out along a river or or whatever and many of them were situated very close to  to the community and and much like holland the houses were very much coastal retail area that i found very interesting because that is sort of how i view the civic center project  certainly we deal with stuff you know hard things like sewers and like trick and water and stuff that we really need that if we didn't deal with we'd be we'd be derelict in our duties but the civic center represents the other side of life of the softer if you well you know it's it's the experience of nature and art and relationships and connections  or whatever you know is it's much more about buying commodities than when that it's connections and meeting people and having a place that's a place where we all gather and that's what the civic center represents so we could talk you know as much as i appreciate the discussions of the concerns of the things that have been brought to light we could talk about this ad infinitum until the cows come home when they decide to leave again  in my opinion we've done several things we've done due diligence you just have to pay attention to the litany of experiences that was explained at the beginning of this explanation of the things that we've gone through the meetings the listening the considerations i can't recall any other project that i've witnessed or been part of as a member of council where we've got to this detail and this depth doing gauge the community to find out what it is we needed to do to not make any body mad you know just to to do what we had to do to come to the correct conclusion we've done that we've had an explanation i think of the financial side of this whether we agree at the final place or not i think tim of the finance route have done a good job of explaining what it all entails to the point where i feel confident and comfortable with operating this opportunity to the  nori where i come from you know i'm not a millionaire i pay taxes and everybody does no one wants to pay more but this is very doable it's very bearable i don't think it places an undue burden tim didn't mention another aspect of some financial things that could occur in the near future which would even make that financial picture more palatable and so for the final thing is we reach a point where we just have to do something i love listening to jerry speak because you you know he's a guy of vision and you've been inside a lot longer than you've been outside so don't feel bad about that but you know folks  o make things happen folks who are visionary which includes us there comes a point where we've talked about things we thought about things we've discerned things there is comes a point where we have to do things from my point of view or at that point not everything is well laid out there are some unknown with any project of this size or any size there are no ones and those will be hashed out and rationalize and figured out in days to come but i think you have our that the project there are for this community is one that's well managed well thought out well manageable affordable and that we can go forward and at the end of the day have something that is going to you know i will have all possessed for folks who come in and we try to get all the money from them that we can but it's also going to be a place where people of any point in life in the station life whatever their activity they want to be they can have a place to have their daughters or sons wedding reception they can have a place to fly real control airplanes they can have a place to do exercise if you like to do that kind of stuff  it will be that place that this place has always been only more usable for my kids and my grandkids and all of yours so you know it's a long way of well i don't think there's been anything we've talked about or research more than this i too was on the committee i don't think i missed too many meetings i think i listened to all the rationales we started at eleven we get to talk about twelve and we talk about opportunities and we talk about income generation and all that factoring in brings us to borrowing essentially twelve million dollars over a twenty year period for a facility that will serve this community i think i think as well as can be planned i've looked i've talked i think every single one of my colleagues on the phone more than once pulling our hair out of our head about dave your points well it's when it's easy to pay for sewers but when you pay for something that's that's warm and fuzzy and it's not warm and fuzzy for everybody else that's a tough decision there's no doubt in my mind but i've grown comfortable with the people that have been involved in the project i went to it skeptically i'm not even i don't think we hired the firm that i wanted to hire to lead us through this thing but i gained confidence in them so you know and we're pretty firm we're pretty fiscally responsible community and you look at these numbers and  i think it's in it's affordable for us dave your comments are well what nobody's going to go to bed hungry with this project yet we're committing some dollars to the long haul but when you think about what we have downtown what we've done town and what we've done downtown where we're headed downtown with a phenomenal framework that's been put in place for the last twenty five years by bill johnson and others that we've been continuing to follow and put pieces on that framework when opportunities came along i think this is the civic centers opportunity i preach the concern that some of my colleagues have about how did we get here is this smart could we do it for less are we being responsible i appreciate those sentiments and i guess peg you're right sometimes you just we're here to make decisions and this is not an easy one it should be an exciting one and i think if we get over the hump and build this dam thing i think it will be an exciting one we just got to get there and i wasn't quite sure where i was when i walked in here tonight but i've come down i think where i've been for quite some solidified in my own mind where i've been for quite a while and like brian was saying brian lenihan being new on council this is a really tough decision i've lost some sleep over this was not expecting that when i came the council so that was kind of new and  the stress of the magnitude the scope of how big this is for more than just this group of people in the people who are sitting here tonight and the people who are watching i have kids small kids and i look at this thing as a it could be a hangout place right now you know i got to think and as we say here tonight where can my kids go and hang out is there a place really for them hang out especially in the wintertime and this could be that place this could be a place where maybe the kids don't go to the same school but they could come together here and meet each other learn about each other and even more so kids may be be able to  people may be able to build relationships based on not just going to school but based on meeting their and i think that right there is a big deal being mom generational and that's something that i never thought about until just tonight and another thing we've talked about the finances and we started out the night by our finance department getting an award running twenty four is it twenty four years twenty four year story that gives me confidence and a lot of the numbers that's been presented and i really think with that kind of a track record that we can't go wrong that we can't in a sense sink the ship twenty four years in a row and may or divorce that some people don't ever get this award and we get it twenty four years in a row we have to be doing something right so i think these numbers even though it's a huge number to me and the scope of the project and everything i think with twenty four years running that gives me assurance that what we bring to the table as a community we will be fiscally responsible and taking care of what we need to do to make sure that this program and this place becomes a hub for the community and that's  right i was on the committee as well with my colleagues jay and david and mary to bore and we i feel like this building needs to happen that we need to address the demands of the city that it is the march toward the lake shore that we need to me and i've said this multiple times the civic center is the keystone for the next twenty years of downtown's development that being said i don't believe this project answers the concerns or the expectations that i had going into it and i've addressed that multiple times into what i feel is deaf ears i was at the design charette two of those sessions i was not given a pen as i was expecting i expressed my concern over the parking and that we were listening to people who do not live or reside in the city or pay taxes in the city and what we have is a plan that preserves and continues to preserve parking spaces and some of the most valuable property on our main street we continue and we insist on preserving that we had people for the preservation of public spaces as part of the charette i said next time i said should we turn this parking lot to something more interesting more active and they said no that that's not what people want and i was just stunned by that furthermore as we continued in this process my expectations of what a budget should be for this has also been misaligned with what we originally intended to seek numbers do make a difference a significant difference i do not see this building lasting additional sixty five years as the original has today and i don't believe that because this is a building that has a river running underneath it and to be frankly honest this time last year that i was fully prepared to bulldoze and raise that building for that purpose because there are better uses and more cost efficient ways to achieve what it is we want to what we want to grow here furthermore it's most likely and we've talked about this on the council in study sessions that we will most likely build new structures pleuro to replace some of the functions in the space a gym a conference center i'm convinced that these are things that we need i think the civic center can serve as a placeholder for those functions i continue to believe that i do not believe that we should be  mortgaging our future at the expense of our of other needs i've said this during study sessions my wife and i were at moran park my neighborhood park and we were just sitting there watching our kids play and she said very bluntly why is this in such bad repair and i stopped and i was it was i took it personally as a critique and i stopped and i looked and i saw sand just everywhere and i saw weeds growing out of the planter boxes and saw cracks in the playground equipment and that wasn't that was even before we found out that the tennis fields the tennis courts are in such bad repair that they will likely have to be ripped out and completely replaced we can't even play tennis there anymore i think we're spending money at the expense of other needs and we talked about this during our budgeting session that we are not in place to be spending foolishly we are not out of the weeds yet we have never been out of the weeds we are still under significant budget stress stress i mean we spent how many how many hours about a potential study on our staffing needs because we couldn't find sixty thousand dollars to pay for that i think this building works i think this building functions for what it needs to be i think it can be cleaned up i've always maintained this when i finally came around to keeping the building that we can renovate the gym that we can upgrade the age of ac system but we can upgrade the stage in the acoustics if we needed to keep bleachers we can keep the bleachers and we can upgrade those we can do some finishing polish on some of the fixtures we can redo the bathrooms and we can make code improvements we can spend close to just shy of ten million dollars total on a project achieve what we need get the functions going and not mortgage our future right now i have struggled with this a long time because i support this project so much because it's so important and yet i look at these budget numbers and they continue to change and they continue to increase and they never go down and i have a significant problem with that and i voiced that multiple times again to deaf ears so i was saying it now and i hope we can make a more wise decision on this pressure moving forward thank you brian any other comments that yeah i will probably take that much time again i think most of my thoughts on this  the cost per unit if you will still continue to struggle with the notion that our renovation is costing lease costing us significantly more than we ever anticipated i understand that there is some rationale behind it largely because we've got a largely expanded project in front of us and so apparently hybrid projects cost well in terms of the creep in terms of the scope in the scale of the project and that seems to be driving some costs here that quite frankly or i can come in behind them as we see them tonight understand some of the expansions and some of the desires and why we think we want to go after those things have asked pretty consistently for solid business models for some of these projected uses much like former mayor and of us he's letter articulated ice i have some concerns there is well as far as the  you know the long term feasibility of those projected uses one of my largest concerns is that this project if you will if i understand it as it's been presented basically transitions our rec activities out of there in five years and comes with some version of yet another building project so i'm going to expand this one even my current uses only to five years from now i have to build potentially a seven to ten million dollars project more than likely with public debt and i mean a very difficult time reconciling that knowing that again back in january this council sat near its priority a top of its priority list a reduction in the tax burden regardless of whether that's an individual tax payer a corporate tax payer the goal would be  at a minimum i think a fair interpretation would be to hold the line with our tax millage and for what it's worth you know roughly one fifth to one quarter of any given tax bill in the city is represented by debt as we know it today and as much as we're projecting the this particular slide that's in front of us isolates the civic center debt there's other debt that we will we currently have with some and most will expire at some point but i think we all know we have projects breathing down our neck again whether those are fire stations new wrecks centers whatever we need to be mindful of that the operating milledge associated with the city that's our human capital this is a business model that is very intensive not in machinery but in human capital few of which are in this room and we're thankful for i think the best chance for this council to achieve anything related to the goal established in january comes in our management of debt our human capital for the most part is going to be what it's going to be if not more because we are at historic lows with our human capital so the largest portion of our business model roughly seventy percent of it around here are in these people and we're at historic lows which means really our chance to manage toward that goal is couched in how well we manage debt i understand the states more than willing to give a level million dollars in q a b c s celebrate tim and ryan both for finding that opportunity and pursuing that opportunity just because a credit card companies willing to give me x amount of dollars doesn't automatically mean it's the right thing for me to do as an individual nor does it mean it's the right thing to do for us as a city and so i'm all for a one percent money to marty knew that he's known me long enough as most of my colleagues have but my overall concerns still remain this the scope of this project unfortunately is is far too big in my opinion i think we have a placeholder and maybe some change if you will the eleven million dollars and some change  is i believe in my mind the right project i think it's corresponding to the gifts we received in terms of the fundraising efforts to which i'm thankful and grateful for those folks to come in behind this project but i think it's incumbent upon us to look at the size of the project and match it up with what his brother lynn said the big picture so as it's recommended tonight i cannot support but i am interested in seeing if there's mike if you'd like ok i pass up such an opportunity be in the old guy does have some of his advantages twenty some odd years that i've been and we've been discussing the civic center for twenty some odd years and it was well before that i remember the building of quincy talk to put a place to hang out well in my day we hung out at the armory which is now the museum place and that's where saturday morning basketball games were pla and every once in a while if you really got lucky you went to the civic center because that was the big floor very very very many fond memories of that building i was one of the first people in probably wanting to save the structure because of those memories i know the bones are good the renovation is sorely needed and has been for a number of years and heaven forbid if we expect this building last sixty five years and don't do anything shame on us we went about twenty years too many on this one it was talked about being very difficult decision and from an outsider standpoint i can understand the wheels of government moves slowly and this particular project the wheels of stopped and rusted and we run out of oil to get him going again but the biggest difference between this and other projects that have been brought up in my mind is if you look at city hall if you look at the police department if you look at what we're going to be doing with the fire stations and the other public building there was this very specific use for those and that was for the betterment of the city from the public safety standpoint from a service organization that we haven't within here  the public safety department very specific this building doesn't fall in that there's a public need don't get me wrong but it doesn't have a specific need as other buildings did i kind of put that in a in a slightly different category i too have concerns and i was a cheerleader part of the early subcommittees that were on here and dan can remember when he first but the glass up on the east side there i'm not a i'm not a visionary i don't know nothing about art but i saw that and some of the ideas people looked at me and said were you and what did you do with mike you're getting excited about something well that glass reflection out there and some of the if you invision this you're walking toward the west toward the water you've just come from a beautiful downtown and you don't have to give it up because you've got this great big wall of glass reflecting from whence you just came and the investment that's going on in that property across the street folks that's it's as excited as i get so don't expect any more but when we're looking at approximately forty three thousand square feet that's roughly thirty thousand existing an additional eleven or twelve for and i'm going to say fifteen million because the sixteen and a half million dollar project includes a million and a half of the outside that's not the building if my math serves me correct it's been a few years since about a school but that's about three hundred forty five dollars a square that's an awful lot of money we have asked numerous times and it just blew us away when because there was a number of people that said it's got to be cheaper to to renovate than it is to build them in when we first heard the numbers i remember her dexter at the time just his jaw just about hit the floor we couldn't believe it when the numbers were presented it was actually cheaper to do the renovation than it was to build brand new at three hundred forty five dollars and ninety four cents a square i don't i don't think so we it was said that we were elected to represent the people absolutely i will not argue with that at all but we are here to represent the people from a physical standpoint that's what we are elected for one of our biggest jobs is to tackle the budget every year twenty two twenty two and some odd million dollars not coming t this is been a fantastic journey fantastic job but if i'm doing what i'm elected to do at this point my gut my heart and for lack of better terms my pocketbook can't support th do i think we need a private absolutely do we need to start a debase absolutely i said early on and i i hope to be proved wrong i've been around long enough to see some of these projects that we say yep we're going to do we're going to start here and we're going to end this and this and this and this and you know what it doesn't get done early and i was were bona let's do everything now because i know it's not going to get sometimes you have to go back and i'm hoping you're asking yourself the same question if it was my own person what would what i spend this much money when i didn't think it was right when i knew there was other comps out there had a long talk with the city manager in the mayor this afternoon i laid on where my heart was until i walked into the room tonight and i still don't know at this point exactly where i'm landing on this one but sometimes you have to go with your gut sometimes you have not sometimes at all the times you have to listen to to constituents you have to weigh out the the pros and the cons you have to weigh out the cost benefits that's what i do for a living and have been doing that for thirty five you have those numbers folks it just if this was my personal money i wouldn't feel right spending and i sure as heck don't feel comfortable spending your money that way this is not a popular decision and there's going to be some people angry at me that's why we get paid the big bucks the project doesn't need to go away and if we can do it for the original whatever the the base building in and i said and greg knows it he's heard it enough we are going to be planning for the future you make sure the core building is done and you make sure the superstructure of the infrastructure is done so that we can add these other projects on we don't need to be tearing things apart to add on if that's what we're going to do yes right i just wanted to ask you if you would wish more information on this square foot cost at five twenty i got an e mail that delineated it as differently than what was reported and greg way camp and chris ford are here tonight and they've been texting me so if you are willing i think it might be useful to get their viewpoints and their analysis as to where because mr cotton and would be more than happy to listen to this but the bare numbers are fifteen million dollars expenditure forty forty three thousand three hundred sixty feet what's different i'm not the one to ask that question there in consultation i've been the one asking the square footage cost number i think most of you would have been participating in these meetings and know that the number that i am working from comes from an e mail sent to us from the city manager on may fifth  and it was a forward to gregg and ryan from chris in this is how it reads i'll get to the square footage part of this the existing building is thirty one thousand six hundred ninety ninety five square feet without the basement and the new net the net new space bean added will be eleven thousand six hundred sixty five and my understanding is if i look at the  document that had all of the different components of construction and demolition i think the net there is on top of this because we're demo we need a significant amount of existing square footage to get to the expansions so that's where my numbers have come from and that's where my initial three hundred forty some odd dollars a square foot came from i just forwarded what i got in the way of an e mail chris could you come to a microphone thank you years one point on your math is you're basing it off for your cost per square foot and fifteen million but actually what the vote is for on thirteen point six million so if you divide that by the forty three thousand square feet it's about three hundred sixteen dollars a square foot ok than the one i'm not going to debate right now chris but the math is very fuzzy because our total project is  d five it's been established that the outside project is one point five that leaves fifteen million dollars for the building and the stuff on the inside i don't know where your thirteen is coming from that the one point four four the demonstration kitchen that they're not part of the ones that was not part of the sixty five that's over and above that would get us up to seventeen no this sixteen point five does include the one point three for us that's not what was presented i'm sorry that's not what it was in the packet seven hundred five was in there and then you presented that to me during study session of stairs that that was a line separately it's on the budget that you gave us have a copy of the chart chris the chart that we have right here main building and site elements totals fifteen point one million right that's if you take that demonstration kitchen out the optional elements are the new demonstration kitchen the second and third floor office spaces which totaled two point four million for a total of seventeen point five million right fifteen point one is that what you're working with that is exactly what you just  three sixteen three forty i mean i agree part of the problem here all along has been we haven't we've been having a moving target of what's in what's out you know it's been a type estimate there are things you know pride in a project of this type that are different then other public buildings stages sound systems that that drive that that cost up you look at the demonstration kitchen part of that is kitchen equipment you apply four hundred  thousand for a kitchen equipment over two thousand one hundred square feet that's going to drive up the cost the other thing that drives up the cost is you have a small footprint that you're taking care of the envelope so this you know levon thousand square feet edition it's been split up the devil is only covered by the eleven thousand square feet so that's i guess my explanation it's a complicated building  millionaire right yeah that's really where i get to the thirteen point six is what i look at is is constructions buildings that you're going to construct that you can look at cost per square foot  n this includes you know all the fees to find issuance cost in the typically when you talk about construction cost furniture isn't included in the cost per square foot but the math that you're using is so be careful on how you you know use the numbers thank you chris greg did you have something to  and i think i just want to summarize that the numbers you're seeing are fully loading every single potential cost which when you're considering calculations makes sense but when you want to compare it to historic pricing and other buildings those you know when you say well that was to seventy for this building or to eighty three for this building or three hundred for that building a sure they didn't and couldn't have dollars of additional state work of other projects that didn't get loaded into a building per square foot cost those square foot cost typically when you refer to their construction cost they don't include the soft costs which is an additional ten percent roughly or whatever the number is so you're seeing square foot cost loaded far in excess of what you typically hear when somebody says what what should a building cost per square foot so so obviously we have said it probably about ten times now this is not an easy decision and i guess we are not the only ones who have said that they've been generations of people now in working with the civic center question who have said this is not an easy decision and at least twice they took the notebook and put it back on the shelf and walked away from the civic center my husband and i and son in law and daughter went to daddy owes the other day for chicken and i walked in and her shell homes on's that place and and she said hi she said do you recognize me you know my name you gave me an award and i heard you were mayor so i was going to stop by the office and ask you if you remembered me like oh you look familiar hi i'm sorry and she said i'm michelle holmes and i said what was your word for hospitality and i said i'm going to go home and check your file and michelle lives in holland and she had friends that were in hurricane katrina and they asked her to take them in and she said sure so at three o'clock in the morning at family fair parking lot where shell went to meet her four friends  victims of katrina however her four friends had multiplied to fifty people and michelle was all boy so she called her dad and said dad i can feed these people and put on my house but the wider and electricity i'm going to need help with can you help me and he said sure and so she took in all those people amazing a while into the higher giving the chicken everything this gentleman came from the back with one of those keep the disease out of food hair nets over is beard it was tony your husband and tony says yeah i says i have to meet you i said well thank you i'm glad to meet you he said i gave you my vote i said tony that really means a lot let me tell you i am working really hard to do the very best job i can to serve this city that i love and its people i do not take that lightly he smiled and went back to his hard work over the oven and it that keeps ringing in my head i gave you my vote and i know that each person has that same sense of responsibility we aren't here because we chose to we are here because we bought our way here we didn't earn it with a degree it wasn't a pedigree it didn't come out of a monarchy it's part of the way things happen in this republic and in the city we call holland and there have been many generations of people that have had to make hard decisions in leading this city than royalty and his group came here and pretty desperate situation there is so much lumber you could hardly walk from one place to another the governor a year after they got here said wow that is some breed of foreigners they and such a inhospitable almost inhabitable place and they don't ask for anything except roads to sell their products amazing people they needed their canal so they dug it themselves royalty went out to preach one day after he had stepped down from leading the colony came back from grand haven on the train to see the entire city burned most of it burned everything he had done twice to so did he take the train back to grand haven and find another like front property now he stayed he became a leader again holland come back through that difficulty i was on the second round of the civic senate committee i was part of the decision that times are so hard we can't afford to do this if it's center project and the notebook  on the shelf part i guess of my decision to run for mayor was a huge desire to get this project done for the people of holland i don't have any agenda beyond serving the city of holland one person called me and threatened my political career over this and i hung up the phone thinking what political career i don't have one i just care about doing the best i can for this city and i couldn't be more proud of the huge effort that went into coming to this point today it is amazing and it really means a lot to me for greg why camp who has done projects all over the world massive amazing projects to say that this is the most robust process he has been a part of  has been because we valued public input so much and everybody had a voice and nobody controlled everything and that is huge that is a huge failure and what came out of this was that the value of what we take for granted it's like when someone gets a terminal diagnosis suddenly a normal walk is so  golden he was really hard for me to go see wayne clamp ons last night in the hospital and i think you know i i know i get it that it's not a public service building it's not what every other city has but that howland is not every other city hound is wonderful because it makes choices that will make the city better not just good enough why in the world would we do snow melt here had never been done before that was a huge risk nobody even knew how to do it it's been done in some european countries b t w was clueless why would we do something like that who doesn't say wow what a great decision now at the time it was gut wrenching to make that decision and some people came back later to say were i made the wrong decision i was on the wrong side of that one i had no idea the value that would play in this the future of the city and i think this has that potential every one of us realizes and our amazing downtown and we love it and we want to build on it and we're so glad for g d k to have that amazing vision to take over that whole block to solve that whole string of problems of hard work architecture and do something really great that fits the rest of downtown but if we do all of that and then we come to the to what we have going on now at pine and ate and what is that i mean the frankenmuth people are coming here to visit next monday i'm not taking them near the civic center the best thing is going to be is a look at a chart for what we hope to do and you can see it from the emergency room in the at the police department i don't want to walk there it's embarrassing would you take people when they come to visit you to they're your worst closet and say hey look at the future here it doesn't make sense so yeah we've been ignoring it it's something we have to address and it's really valuable and it seems to me that when you take when you really tackle it on this level when you have this many experts and you work this hard to develop the very best vision possible why would you stop at a number you stop at the very best vision for the community because how are you ever going to get those other layers done if we can never get to getting it done in the first place somebody has to step up and make the hard decision take the risk do the best for the future of the city of holland put together a place that we can be proud of that we can say come on down to the civic center and you can see the water from here think about the development possible we are bringing in three groups three convention groups in the next year all of them are going to be looking around for what's going on in holland and if we are doing anything over at the civic center lot they're all going to wonder what happened to your pattern are you guys starting to go the other direction or do you really want a future here and we kind of like to come back but where are we going to go hope is busy and there's nothing going no other space for us if you have a room in your house where everybody loves to go there every reunion that's where everybody is are you going to say let's not invest in it really just go for good enough let's just kind of fix it let's sorta do it and call that all right now we're going to see if it's really valuable connect people in this family this is going to be a great place and why are kitchens always the most valuable things to invest in a house because everybody always goes to the kitchen because everybody wants to eat at reunions and you always get your investment dollars back and i really think we're going to look back on the civic center project and say wow that was a catalyst a catalyst to future development a catalyst to the waterfront a catalyst to the g d k investment we're saying yes to no peters yes birch no no whiteman no extra yes bird yes or direct to staff come back at the next be the next study session or there could be reconsideration of but that has to come from a request by someone who voted against the resolution of the prevailing party  open a second public hearing now you've conducted their public hearing and you voted on it so i think you're really open a second public hearing tonight could be rescheduled as scheduled public hearing for revised consideration but you conduct the public hearing you could take up a revised resolution ok thank you brian i'll make a proposal for a an amendment you're going to have to coach me through this highly unlikely based on what was there a fifteen point one million dollars subtotal make that a thirteen million dollar subtotal that would result in ten million dollars bonded and a taxpayer cost general obligation of eight point five million if i'm using the same math that was incorporated for the fifteen point one million so that's half million dollars north of the twelve  this more of a substitution as you are referencing right and i think what you're trying to get a point but i'm wondering if this is since this item has already been considered and we're passing this is a new item on the agenda or is this  have the microphone on i think is a maybe a little bit on the to confuse inside to have a substitute and you know what you're really voting on it may be best to to to have that taken up then at the next meeting r different mind technical question here than if it was opened up for reconsideration in alternate words considered as part of that reconsideration that would be acceptable at this point because it's a continuation of the  reconsider and then you'd be back to the point of before the vote and then question you mind so mr lynn here's the table right now if you would resume that table or send it ever like you can to i would like to make a quincy did you want to say something no that was that i was wondering if we should if we go through that process do we debate what we're going to debate but what lynn was saying do we put that on the table now that w motion to read yet we have a motion to reconsider on the floor that seconded and the lender stand your motion to reconsider is that is that he would you're asking counsel then to go back and  reexamine the proposal that was before granting the motion for reconsideration doesn't reverse the vote but brings you back to considering what was there before and also opens up for an amendment yes mike all right in the point number two of the resolutions city managers instructed received was a mini final construction plans submitting appropriate construction as we discussed upstairs we do not have final plan so it's an arbitrary number at this point as i said earlier we started out eleven million dollars we built a building around that eleven million dollars the building expanded up to sixteen and now we're going to go back and rebuild the building basically what we have with if we approve this sixteen i'm certain too much discussion going on before any other comments for reconsideration yes ok we're back to the beginning right did you make a motion to amend or when no you couldn't make a motion to adopt a resolution that it would with changes as you desire and i think what we have to be careful of those making sure that we know what it is that we're actually proposing so so for a point of clarification in the recommendation to read the original after the step presentations in public during its recommended the city council discuss a total potential funding to go up to seventeen point five million for the civic center place that number when we talked up stairs was for a cap number when we were looking at the  the max but the critical number is in the next the following sentences which is to the bond issuance amount and then the amount the tax payers that would be supported by taxpayer and vestments i wrong in saying that now that would be accurate ok so i can leave that seventy point five million when i try and make this resolution because that number's relatively arbitrary it's the next thirteen no well that's why i'm asking you that number yes madam mayor yes prime occasion when i read the resolution or my recommendation thursday it was up to run things better language is what he  i would like to propose you're going to have to tell me with narrowing all this down so we're going to go with the sixteen point five million with the bond issuance i'm out of ten million of which eight point five million dollars will be supported by taxpayer investments reconsideration there that's what i don't know what i'm yeah i mean i guess i'm saying up to sixteen point five if you want to be a fund raising or something to close the gap that's fine but that's a lot of money that would be taxpayer to be bonded out so that the equation would result in a thirteen million dollars project the way we were talking about a fifteen point one million dollars project up to sixteen point five so if you want me to figure out the difference there we can call it to just to clarify then i think i understand what you're saying then the change in the approximately sixteen point five billion dollars to up to sixteen point five million dollars and then the item on the next page item to instead of a ban proceeds up to twelve million dollars you're talking about buying process it's up to ten grand and ok so you're taking two million off of the project however two point one  so i'm saying you've got yes with thirteen million dollars and then who determines those priorities a flight gets taken off but i mean what we're talking about and what we were talking earlier was about the bond issuance not about the building and that's what we're voting on not the building the building has not been finally designed before we came in this room tonight that's a that's a future conversation we're talking about is the finance mechanism setting a budget ok that's your motion brian's motion that makes sense right i think i understand the motion and i think it's a rather simple change to the resolution was there a second to that yet or not now that i heard ok so minus two million basically in the bonding process the project will be approximately sixteen point five you'll say up to sixteen point five and then the item number two on page two well those two items number two with the first item number two says ban proceeds up to twelve million dollars that would be changed to ban proceeds up to ten million dollars now obviously there's a bigger spread between the cap the budget and the bonding and and so maybe the project comes in less than the sixteen point five but but those are the parameters that under your your motion and then jumping down to the second paragraph number two that was in the whereas section in the now therefore section of it the instruction is still there to the city manager to come back with construction plans for the project and in construction management agreements and such contingent upon financing approval which is in there in the first place so you'd be going ahead on that basis but but limiting the bond proceeds to ten million dollars ok yes and i'm sorry clarification on the tax payers does that change from any point five million and well the way it was presented is that they'd be to one million five hundred thousand dollars in t that leaving the original context the leaving ten point five million with the revised motion it leaves eight point five million for general tax revenue funds that does need to be included correct in this amendment we gave a total before if you want to clarify that if you want to make sure that that's clear we can add that into it it's your motion still and that's not seconded so you can add to that yes that's exactly ok and so that clarification the ten million would consist of funds to be repaid with the project and a general revenue up to eight point five billion the original motion was a ten point five limit and this is an eight point five  a little bit further down the agenda as we have that question with the energy and they decide to come on board can that additional middle or million be put on  it short don't start cutting things oh yeah ok i'm just going by what we had for an eleven million project let's put the cart before the horse i do i'm just repeating what we were told before i will second the motion hey we are back from a little break thank you patient public and while the navy seals of audience who are still here thank you we are going on to public comment so there is anything that you would like to address the council about you may come to the podium give us your name address and talk for five minutes the green yellow red light rule applies one minute familiar with and that's just west of hope to have an so that everybody calm now we do a breathing exercise through the nose out the mouth we want to reset we want to reset i'm going to talk about nuts and bolts that i heard earlier i mean talking particularly about hope avenue i have a four year old grandson oliver and when he's with grandpa in the car and we come down hope avenue from sixteenth street he goes grandpa michigan adventure michigan adventure and it's like a rule coaster and that's one of the main roads into the heights they did a beautiful job a few years back fixing country club or hood this road has a nice park there behind the school that the city and school teamed up with a very very good deal beautiful park it's got school there heavy traffic during the school year but it's a disgrace the way that that road is i talk to my constant about two and a half years ago he said he was on the way in the works in a couple years to make some improvements i haven't seen anything happen yet so my two questions are where is it on the agenda and when will something happen we talk about beautiful things like the civic center improvements now all for that but we do have inner structure since i retired i got my harley for my retirement present and i've made the last couple of weeks a little challenge to ride around town checking out most of the main roads and i feel hope avenue is about number one in needing repair for me and road it's really really a disgrace i've had some friends from out of state come in and they said what's with their road but hope i haven't you can someone tell me is it ever going to get fixed it's been going on for well over ten years i've been in the white syria for cd thirty five years now i love the place but their route is a disgrace so my two questions once again is it on the agenda i heard something earlier about twenty year old something is it on the agenda is something going to happen thank you thank you andy we will yes ryan can you address his concerns yes thank you mayor members of the city council and i can't i don't know the exact page number of it's around four hundred of the budget in the five years st plan is listed it is listed  it was originally listed behind central avenue and south shore and then the gas plant moved and central avenue is done partly related to the the power plants part of the gas plant but that pushed shore back so that pushed hope avenue back if that's where it stands so the police out your schedule for next summer and that one was a higher priority not because the condition was necessarily worse it's bad too but because there's a utility line that needs replacement the water or the water breaks that are there which happen about every four to five months is another break it's closed you have to reflect that so that's that's why that one is somewhat slightly higher to discuss this at any point and we have had study sessions at any point should you wish to reconsider that logic we hope to give more help to he yeah thank you thank you randy and we hope your grandson has a little less adventure when he goes down creative child though anyone else have public comment ok we will close the public comments and we'll move on to the city clerk section of the local first education foundation request was that a part of the consent agenda even though it's called no it's for your boat that this repeat occurrence of what happened last summer it's a celebration of local merchants local first is a regional organization that supports said they've chosen washington make us celebration and this is a second year they were successful the first year and it's a limited by gates and ours and training has provided to ensure that there is no issues with alcohol yet it involves the washing of both art so it does require city council action and and i would very much value your addition if i left anything out i'm sorry it is going to be the third year for this event thank you we've never had any issues in the past two years that they've done this and we are the second location of the you've done it for the last eleven years for grand yes a resolution attached i just open the resolution here on my trusty i pad we have before you as a resolution that's the second step in the process here with the civic center place obviously the first step directed going forward with the project and direct the city manager to get the construction plans and construction contracts bring back to you for approval this resolution adele deals more with what deals with the financing aspect of it the dollar amounts would want to change to match with the other resolution and in your motion to adapt the resolution we need to address that in the whereas paragraphs that spans the first and second page  going beyond that what it directs is for the city manager to come back to you with a recommendation appointment of bond counsel and special legal counsel for the bond issue and then secondly to proceed with the preparation one motion with in i guess maybe to try makes things simpler a motion to adapt the resolution with the amendment to say up to sixteen point five million dollars and with bonds up to ten million dollars with eight point five from eight point five million from general tax revenues and one point five from proceeds s resolution it was noted that that that does not include the one million dollar projection if the took time office goes forward and so i assume in that same note would be part of the motion here as well absolutely ok peter is just fine with that yes right and i think it meets the interests of council should this be voted on and primitive that both resolutions be written in a way that meets the motions so the numbers doing is preparing a clean copy of the revised resolutions and submitting to the clerk's office and then of course you'll see those in your minutes next time and make sure that i've got that right and how can we i'm certain if we don't approve well we won't have built the project yet so what you're saying is we don't need a word this wordsmith this tonight you can be asked to form by the city attorney and we have the checks and balances within minutes to be posted at a church or day and you know you're action on the minutes is merely to correct the minutes as to reflect what you decided tonight next time saw it a joking about having built the project yet that that's not what you're debating for the minutes next time ok so moved by peter's supported by lynn and now we will have a roll call vote please santa whiteman yes yes following gifts for the mayor's office in kind donation from like mike lozano author of where city and country connect how the fallen farmer's market grew from a few vendors to a community treasure  ninety six books valued at one hundred sixty dollars a city manager's office howling your connections program received three donations one from ralph and ruby kicker in the amount of one hundred dollars rudolph in for proven for two thousand five hundred dollars in contrast in the amount of five hundred dollars parks and recreation division received a donation for the pickle ball lining of the holland heights park from animal program received two donations various donors in the amount of one hundred seventy four dollars an asylum auction that was held in february of two thousand and sixteen in the amount of nine hundred ninety five dollars civic center place project received part of the pledge from the gym in i lean hearing go for thirty six thousand five hundred dollars as part of a two million dollars pledge for the renovation of the civic center tre sixteen through june thirtieth of two thousand and sixteen for employee donations in the total amount of three hundred in one thousand dollars it is recommended that these donations be accepted with appreciation in an expression of gratitude be forwarded to said donors supported by all those in favor say aye all right opposed same side that carries what a wonderful list of kind and generous people in all different ways it is community that realizes it's more blessed to give than to receive and when i was sitting there for the fireworks on property donated by mrs collins overlooking the boardwalk granted by the heinz corporation and lancer broadcasting providing our fire works is that there is much to give thanks in holland so we are going on to communications from the city manager right doesn't clued seven hundred square feet on the ground floor i was just reading that now it sort of lost it and four thousand square feet and it's located on the second floor possibly directly attributable would be you know paid by took time however common sixpences common area expenses would just be you know covered by the city is as normal so that's the guts of it there is a response  m time executive director and and that's a suggestion that the wording be revised and number two were every one here to egg to read the office space would be approximately four thousand square feet at a location in the civic center to be determined to time would like to be considered for a main floor location if possible actual location may be determined during the design phase and i greg is still here we talked about that in one of our our meetings and there's i think there could be ways of doing both in a very satisfactory manner having it on the second floor or the ground floor but i do believe that it's probably outside of meet my wheel house to determine and probably councils at this juncture so i think that language would would be acceptable it's a it's as always is understanding that if you're not committing years to the first floor until more information is available you you know i think we probably made enough sausage for one evening but yeah it'd be great if we can keep talking and the building is breathing and moving in changing so there are a lot of things that will need to work t about this i thought what a great partnership that could be and who knows we're going to grow into i mean we need management you guys take the summer off i know you don't do anything maybe there's opportunities to work together there but all i've picked up a little meetings were in office three months out of the year however we are really an operational and visitor center hub with lots of people that come in and go and the operations  tulip time if you would come into the back room of our existing building and see how it works for us and having an it's own entrance we're moving banners for parades and water and just all the things that go around putting on events being on the second or third floor and having to move those items in and share an elevator with the five hundred thousand guests that we invite to town i think it could be problematic for  us and i think it would be difficult operationally so we would like to request some space on the first floor or a location on the first floor where we could i think operationally work feet of storage that we're talking about as we currently have three lockers over at lakewood storage where we keep over event materials that we only need for three weeks of the year so that storage that doesn't need to be on the main floor per se but i believe our offices would be best suited to the visitor by being on the main floor  and and that is there was discussion and the manager's report to you about eliminating the part about it being on the second or third floor and that could be done simply by putting a period after the word determined into a and eliminating the rest of that sub section and sorry for going on a tangent there but what what does this this being a memorandum of understanding is like a letter of intent it's an agreement to to work towards an agreement it sets a  framework for what you're going to to work towards it can be one of two things it can be a binding agreement to make another agreement which would make it in forcible or can be non binding this one provides in subsection hear section eight as i drafted it that it's not binding so basically he's just saying this is a framework that we're going to work towards but down the road it doesn't go anywhere unless we reach another agreement we're not obligated to enter into a future agreement but we're saying we we're going to work towards that end of both parties agree on what that agreement is going to be then that contract could be entered at that point in time now i think there's a important point here is at some point not too far down the road there needs to be a commitment that this is going to happen in the plans have to be there because you can have construction plans you can have a contractor working to build this project over several months and so you need to have it binding at that point and so in section five i indicated that that that once the construction plans and cost estimates are together the parties would negotiate an execute a lease in a normal form for a lease at that point that leased will then be a binding agreement between two time and the city so to to understand ok but that's helpful thank you ron do you understand brant we're looking at a twenty year term and this would be reimbursement for  the repair renovation enlargement cost of the building itself as well as the marginal cost of a traditional lease correct so it's those two things together or is it just one thing like what what it indicates is that the rent would be based on the the the marginal cost the extra cost to have an to time there plus the cost of funds and that amount would be spread over a twenty year the twenty year term of the  lease and that would correspond then also with your twenty year term of your bonds ok that answer your question not exactly i guess i would give confuses if if if were putting tool time was responsible for the construction costs of do is say you know just to pick a hypothetical number out of the air that the project's going to cost thirteen million dollars and without two of time but with two uptime involved it's going to cost fourteen million dollars years and use an interest factor that would be equivalent to the cost to fund some of the funds are at one percent then the be a one percent interest factor on that amount and then that would be amortised equal payment over would have to be equal terms of least in terms of mortgage ok rent was throwing me out there i pay rent on eighth street and i know i pay specific square footage to a very nice landlord but it i guess i was trying to understand if we were going to put building costs on top of there will be some potential operating costs that are that are expected that are going to be related to cost in incurred by so by the tool time folks it was that utilities there is what i'm calling those consumable item or they pay it separately one of the two good all right so we need to now we can vote yes we have you down here for some reason something's changed let us know and it begins here at nine and ends at four and you can hop on board any point if you want to catch up to us to share that i want to recognize happens every year as long as the county wants me to serve on a tax board that happens during the workday but they pay these text board members and i'm there anyway so i turn it back over to the city and i ask any to plant 'm supposed to you know about appointments and re appointments for the sustainability committee greg alam is going on to his first full term expiring in march of two thousand and eighteen and he carried out a partial sustainability committee from december twenty fifth teen till march twenty sixth and also like to suggest for reappointment jury to needy for the chair of the sustainability committee in his term would expire ok that's a whiteman peters combination thank you all those who favor say aye oppose same sign that carries and thank you very much one other thing there's the street performers on thursday one to eight thirty enjoy that and on saturday morning there's the mecca towel water festival at windmill island gardens which is sponsored by the mc what tower area coordinating council and also a lot of other people helped volunteer but there's activities for children project clarities involved in it too and it's a lot of fun kayaking fishing for kids under seventeen and all kinds of education about water quality so it's a an educational fun her yesterday walking with her husband and it made me think about when i first moved to holland and i worked at prince and we would have during christmas we would have lunch they've checked on the planet and they would give checks away they were big pictures as we all know they would give checks away to different nonprofit organizations one of the nonprofit organizations that stand out my mind is the wings of mercy which is another local organization nonprofit and there's a guy i worked with who does a rally racing on motorcycles and last year about this time he was riding in north carolina flying over the handlebars broca's back in three different locations the west rick and long story short was wings of mercy went to north carolina and flew him back home he's recovered you know he'll forever have all the issues that go along with a broken back but wings of mercy was there to help him in a dire situation for free to get back home from north carolina and those things have trickled down as an aside i hear and read about the guest it's not just people who have the money to give to give and i'm so grateful for a community that reaches out you know some of these gifts are they may seem small and significant at times but to be able to give a few dollars for a cause or for something that touches your heart this is really and truly a great community we live in so i personally want to say thank you to all the people who give and it's amazing every single week there's and emotions are resolutions from council members well first reading of an ordinance we handle that already ok you know me ok all right then i guess there's one thing left to