about him being selected for early retirement so so whether he was improperly passed over for promotions earlier in his career is not the force that's correct except for promotion boards which reviewed his his record lows and i just got lost again ok here's my thought i gotta figure out what the case is about i think it's about his being selected for early retirement that means it just doesn't matter to this case whether he was improperly not promoted and if i understood the answer was yes but and then i didn't word from thessaly your seventy seven every point that selected chaplains was had one catholic on it if it did not consist of admirals why should we care if it's not a promotion board you know a nation on either side like to or promotion it's unconstitutional and i mean the following thought i'm here we've got to catch me up before you finish that argument i thought the statistics show is that non eternal trickles if for instance if you look at the promotion data they wind up at the bottom and if you look at the last chart for instance in this case you  turtle and our contention is that they substituted wilkens just to keep the balance because hallmark has almost as many failures of selection as bertrand the catholic and both of them have less than two years of service remaining in fact neither of those people honor courage and appeared on the next elective early retirement board that's contrary to keeping those with the highest potential for service but the relief in terms of his retaliation because there is no evidence in the district court held the only people who can provide evidence of what happened on a strike of early retirement board where the board personnel good government has person cannot leech on the career that's in the record the neighbor's own investigation showed one person can kill chapman's korea with no accountability are we talking about promotion or the same iran it's the same system  a number of challenges the first challenge and what i take to be his principal challenge is the systemic discrimination claim in the united states navy put into evidence statistics that show that in fact in the year of his early retirement boards trying to get individuals from a wide variety of backgrounds and experiences so that they could bring those experiences to the board to have a fuller evaluation of the candidate before them but it is the same policy generally and the same consideration information or data about the systematic discrimination claim in addition to the early retirement systematic discrimination claim there is a per se challenge establishment clause challenge children with having a chaplain on a retirement board fact of furthering in this case a particular denomination i think we've shown in our brief and i'm happy to touch on the issues of the court with right that the purposes for the board as described in the rock declaration are religiously neutral they're there principally for getting a breadth of experience and the fact we've shown through the evidence concerning the retiring the retirement boards is not to promote any particular religion so you have trouble understanding how t that was very clause jurisprudence with military chaplains but as i understand it chaplains from the united states army existed and were part of the army before there was a united states could be a constitutional violation but it is absolutely clear that the board for the correction of naval records has the authority to consider retaliation claims and to provide relief i believe cites a number of cases in the supreme court case which recognize off the board for a time and if neighbor sees me for the correction of mabel records could consider and could grant relief in exactly that sort of the case yes your honor now just somebody that a recommendation to the board about whether somebody should go or st exact that's exactly right leon to do that regularly as i recall the practice exactly right your honor and these are the people who sit on those boards are fairly senior excuse me they have to be superior rank to be senior to the first that's right and so what that means among other things is they have command experience supervising others and it didn't end in an administration and so have the capacity to review the documents and the efficiency reports that they have in front of them i'd like to respond investigators evaluation that it is impossible to tell round individual wrote has some bearing it is impossible to tell what a fact an individual thought and has there is simply zero evidence in this record to show that one individual can control the fate of an individual on a retirement board or on a promotion board when asked i just like a very briefly point out that throughout this argument i've been assuming that opposing counsel may have presented evidence concerning discrimination in just to show why that has no bearing on the discrimination claim i'd like to point out that we entirely contest that suggestion we have evidence in this record again showing no statistic promotion process which accounts for what he says is discrimination but he hasn't explained what that mechanism is and i'd like to point out that the only thing we could be talking about as far as i can tell bronwyn terry withdraw from the navy because the only way to be involuntarily separated from the navy aside from disciplinary separation were being bipolar to be promoted a certain number of times and then being forced to retire that way or  selected for an early retirement board mr wilkins expert is suggesting that there's something outside of that mechanism the only thing left outside of that mechanism i'm sorry to be clear he suggests that there aren't the numbers up on the tragical protestants mechanism to explain what sort of discrimination is supposed to be going on in the background here and human genomes the data compressing different promotion of words into one year to account for what he  background discrimination the district court quite properly decided that this was not sufficient to create a genuine issue of material that any issue it was fairly described as pure speculation on mr w one person gets zero that's a max eighty and so you'll never get promoted because that one zero will always cancel out whatever else happens commander washburn's testimony is also in news people on the boards has never been presented they say that they need no experience and we asked the district court ask the government to explain why you need a catholic there as opposed to a pentecostal or special worship now the question we have asked is why do you have to have a catholic on every board what do they bring because promotions are supposed to be based on the record assignments or not based on the nomination so  see what happens in every category none of georgia goes come last and the question for in astonishment cause case is what's the message and that's why i had these charts because if you look at music what's the message of this