order we're going to take testimony today on the importance of a long term surface transportation authorization in sustaining our economic recovery  i believe that it would be an extraordinary mistake for this congress to exceed to the demands that popped up out of the white house three weeks ago  asking that we shouldn't delay changes in policy that are long overdue and needed changes in objectives changes in the organization of the department of transportation and enhanced funding for additional investment and as we all know in eighteen months the light will not be in eighteen months away i guess the rationale there is we're after the next congressional election well after the next congressional election or into the presidential election guess what it's very likely to morph from eighteen months to forty two months or probably fifty six months at that point so that for that reason alone i find this very misguided proposal you know we have put together a bill and we will know when we hear from the administration witnesses that we seem to be in sync on many policy changes that are necessary if if at the end of his testimony is that therefore we support the bill as opposed to taking a left turn and saying therefore we have to have an eighteen month alay but with like policy changes you know that that would have made more sense on the senate side barbara boxer senator boxer has insisted that the eighteen month delay be devoid of any policy changes that's what you're reporting out of her committe accountability that don't account for many of the twenty first century objectives we'd like to have in this bill or we can press ahead and it's the intention of this committee the full committee chairman the ranking members that we will  we will push ahead we recognize the short term deficiency in the trust fund and we're in discussions with our leadership about how to get us to october first but it is still our intention to go forward  difference this is what we lose if we don't pass this bill and i would hope that this is ministration and all the advocates out there and everybody who cares about the future of this country in this economy is thinking about this can we afford to walk away from six million jobs i don't think so the construction sector is the hardest hit sector in this country massive  manufacturers that provide a p the size of a new bus and of course we have transit systems that are driving obsolete buses i think there's over twenty thousand that are past their theoretical expiration date we won't make the increased investment to acquire those we won't make the made in america street cars the first ever which was unveiled by the secretary of transportation just a few weeks ago in oregon we won't do that we won't be building  light rail cars and all the spillover jobs there we won't be patching the potholes we won't be rebuilding the bridges we'll still be detouring trucks people will still be caught in traffic and they'll be told oh wait in eighteen months we might have a plan for you it's not acceptable turn to the ranking them and i thank you very much mr chairman and i would say that i certainly agree with everything you just said and not only do i agree with it i am convinced that almost all of the i'm sure that all the members of this committee and almost all the members of the houses on both sides agree with what you just said and  in their states or in their areas appreciate you calling today's hearing today's discussion will provide members of the subcommittee and others with guidance on the which path to choose a short term extension or secure authorization bill and i expect that most of our witnesses here today firmly believe that the long term authorization of the highway highway safety and transit programs will will create jobs and help improve our transportation and  structure system our investments in infrastructure investments in the future deteriorating bridges congested highways and insufficient freight movement over our nation  this country not only do that does it cost lives it cost money and it costs a lot of time we have estimates that congestion cost this country and seventy eight or eighty billion dollars a year the american society of civil engineers estimates that we need to invest two point two trillion dollars in our nation's superstructure to remain globally and even nationally competitive a short term extension will force states to delay major transportation projects due to due to a lack of predictable federal funding and we all know that any time we delay a project the cost of the project increases greatly because the cost of labor materials increase over time a six year old for zation bill will allow states to make plans and begin hiring workers for the long term projects states will be assured that funding will be available for multi projects and construction can begin with unemployment closing in on ten percent and many post people predicting it's going to go much higher we cannot afford the to delay construction projects that the the big stimulus bill was sold to the country on the on the backs of stimulus because so many people such a great majority of the people in this country support infrastructure funding  it was it was emphasized over and over again that the stimulus bill was an infrastructure bill however only somewhere between seven and eight percent of that bill was devoted to infrastructure now an area my home area of east tennessee for many many years now has been one of the most popular places to move to and help true because of that our town i'm in has been very strong stronger than most places in the country yet even in the area over the past year we've started hit pretty hard and in fact i represent five full counties and only a fourth and a fourth another county so i don't represent all that many candidates one of my county says eighteen percent unemployment another county has fourteen and a half percent unemployment and another county has ten and a half percent unemployment which is the stay there bridge for tennessee so we need we need the work that could be done and the boost to the economy that that a six year full authorization would provide i know there there were thirteen amendments filed the sub committee markup and there are several more amendments that members plan to file at the full committee we need to work through these issues to ensure that this bill will move with the support of all the members of the committee that six  year bill will provide long term economic stimulus that will create jobs and get people back to work and i support chairman oberstar and chairman de fazio as work to move a six year old for zation bill that will provide solutions to our nation's transportation challenges i look forward to hearing from the witnesses and i thank all of you for taking time out of your very busy schedules to come and be here today thank you mr chairman i thank the gentleman with that turn to see if any  i have to say that in washington state we were shocked and disappointed by the u s department of transportation's decision that was announced tuesday that washington state was receiving only point zero one two percent twelve percent or one point two percent a point zero one two percent of the sixty million dollars in the stimulus package that was directed for various systems around the country now those senator murray's efforts on our state's behalf have remedied this problem in the short term and the ole know that the situation still demands a full explanation of how the decision can be made in the first place and let me explain why that is serves over twenty three million riders per year and nearly eleven million vehicles per year which are forty two percent and seventy seven percent respectively of nation wide totals so the math frankly doesn't add up at all the d o t granted funding to several small city and county ferries that carry a couple thousand people across rivers and other bodies of water each year including one of my own district agreements island ferry seven fifty thousand dollars which represented that point zero one two percent of the sixty million dollars total but given the size of this state's washing state's ferry system and being the one of th most one of the state's most dependent upon this water borne transportation element it was a shock to us about the agree just neglect from the state us d o t so i also know for the chairman fazio that unfortunately the situation is a perfect example why i'm not sure that we can rely on the us d o t d to be trusted to make the right decisions on some of these some of these issues and highlights why why i am and others are pushing to make federal ferry dollars in the reauthorization go out through a formula however it makes me skeptical that the d o t can be relied upon to provide the committee with the appropriate assistance  developing that formula and so as we hear from our witnesses and certainly from mr keene it's look forward to hearing a few answers d o t take into account whether states transportation system is dependent  upon ferries what criteria d o t used to make the funding decisions is there something specific about washing face projects that were a problem it's my understanding that washing state submitted projects were both in economically distressed areas passing a long term surface transportation authorization and i think the implications are huge yesterday i said that the action by the senate with an eighteen month extension is a prelude to economic disaster i cannot think of any piece of legislation that's more important than a six year fully funded  transportation infrastructure bill that would help jumpstart the economy and provide jobs there's nothing under consideration there will do more to put people to work we are in a very serious situation and it's turning south as far as unemployment as far as the economic activity in this country let me say the problem is not going to go away and by putting an eighteen month band aid i think we are compounding the damage that will be done to the economy and the potential for any recovery in this country mr oberstar and i well first of all this is this is a betrayal of the of the code that we work under the congress mr de mr duncan recall we had a big a meeting with the senate and we agreed they creed and we all agreed to move forward with a bill and that the house of representatives would lead and mr  oberstar would take that lead now i work in a bipartisan fashion mr duncan did we there are some things in the bill that was passed that we didn't particularly like but we felt it was this isn't a partisan issue this is an issue that is important and vital to the country and we had to move forward so we move forward on this side of the aisle as we said we were going to do and we did it and i've never seen a chairman undermined by an administration in the thirty years i've been around this place like they hosed our chairman coming out the day that we had actually the day after we'd reached an agreement to pull the rug out from underneath him and moving forward with a long term bill now the trust fund is in crises it will go bankrupt next month the problem is not going to go away the manner in which their solution for eighteen months what you're drinkwater about twenty billion dollars a billion dollars a month to fund the trust fund and keep this going at a minimal basis is not a  solution it really will close down any long term major infrastructure projects in the country you read some of the testimony on your staff mr chairman did a good job in putting together the impact on some of the states read what country so i'm very pleased about this but i am pleased that you are holding a hearing that will deal with airing the consequences of this action and i do not intend to give up on a  bill that's the right thing to do we started it in a bipartisan manner and i hope members will support the chairman and the effort to get people working to get infrastructure being built in this country and moving a long term solution to the crises transportation faces in our nation thank you you know back to balance i think john that i going to recognize other members of opening statements but i'll just remind members we do have a panel we have a whole pile of votes coming up in the not to distant future and so i would urge members to be brief if they need to speak with that i turned to mr baird mr chairman in the interest of brevity you are right the ranking member is right and mr larson is interest of brevity also i cannot believe the short sightedness of our colleagues across the hill in doing something as silly as they did yesterday in terms of our nation's infrastructure certain air transportation and i yet even though it's becoming more and more evident the stimulus didn't work we were promised a percent unemployment we're way beyond that we were promised three and a half million jobs created we've lost two million jobs a bill has passed you know i have a bill that and this is not the answer but it's an option that would get the running cumbered stimulus money and put it into the deal to trust fund to actually create jobs and start building projects and so again i think there is a consensus that that if there's one area that we know creates jobs puts people to work helps our economy short term and long term it's transportation so i concur with what's been said about we should be moving forward and not finding excuses to delay the process  the star cory thank you mr chairman i'll be brief too much is at stake for us to simply pass our responsibility by opting for for mere extension of the current law we owe it to our constituents the american people to do work in a timely manner so as not to cause further economic disruptions there has been talk here in washington and around the country about whether there is a need for a second stimulus or further action to stimulate the economy the only additional action that is needed is for us to do that which we are supposed to already do we must pass a long term surface transportation authorization act we must do it before september thank you now you're back to balance my time thank the  california jobs jobs jobs that are ready to go and with the trust fund being in the brink of bankruptcy we need to move and we hope that everybody impresses upon our ministration the need to ensure that this dispatch you strong feelings about this so i he probably doesn't want to do an opening statement you know you know it is chairman thank you i would recognize the chair it's awfully good it's been a good day i got a good night's rest as well and when i got a ten mile bike ride this morning read all the witness statements and glad to have all of you know after i rode the bike no you can't do that in the road that dangerous  that's that's worse than using a blackberry while you're driving a car i just have this community said all the right things read your tires that is really good well prepared thought out came to the wrong conclusions it's just too bad you know what i think this administration needs and every administration in addition to or maybe in place of the council of economic advisors is a council of engineering consultants and probably mr potts would agree with that in a few others while the president is mr  and senator was campaigning for president we were sitting on a stool somewhere we were holding hearings in this committee room over two years in depth hearings understand the need the problems the shortfalls the fixes that are necessary for the future of transportation we fashion them into a bill we don't need an eighteen month learning curve i have news for the administration you're a seasoned professional you know better we're not going to wait eighteen months and there's one other witness other members of the committee have said as witnesses will testify this morning we need to move ahead now inertia is the enemy of progress and we don't have time to wait you can meet us at people who are spending forty to one hundred hours a year in traffic goods that are wasting time and route to their destination companies that are spending millions and millions of dollars in overtime charges and late delivery fees can't wait eighteen months for this crowd to make up its mind we've made up our mind we've got a bipartisan bill you need some refinements to it we're continuing to do that we'll figure out a way to finance it we just need your partnership we need a partnership of all those at this table we're going to move ahead we're not going to wait eighteen months thank you thank you m informed the chairman already told you he's read your testimony and you can bet on it he can quote it back to you in several languages and i've read your testimony and highlighted it and i'm sure other members have too so what we ask you to do because it's really boring listening to people read is summarize your most cogent and best points that you want to make that were either in your testimony or respond to something you've heard here two minutes and then we'll go on to question so with it's yes sir i will do my best thank you sir and members of committee for having us here i have four basic points that i would like to make which i think mr over star probably summarized actually better than i will so i'll be very brief the first which is there's no disagreement from us about the long term economic benefits of transportation and infrastructure investment that's an obvious unknown and important thing and so that puts us in a position where i think our goals are very similar  predictability and in particular at this moment given who the as of this committee are in the mood of the community i think there's a huge opportunity for the major reform in a way that we haven't seen for a long time and i know that these two gentlem certainly are the biggest supporters of that around here so we see that as a huge opportunity unfortunately is the pay for issue and i think that has been the biggest stumbling block in past years the struggle over this program as as the members here have lived through has been there's money in the trust fund can we spend the money in the trust fund or taxes were dedicated to this program but have ended up going elsewhere and so there have been various herculean efforts by members of this committee to assure that the taxes  appropriately should go for transportation do go to the trust fund and once in the trust fund they don't sit there with a very large balance while projects need to be funded but the monies provided are spent contemporaneously this fear is a case of a different order where the shortfall between the funding levels of been proposed here on the revenue levels that exist are quite large as as mr fazio's chart pointed out and so i think that's the principal thing that has led the administration to propose a an eighteen month extension  with the general fund dollars hopefully paid for through matters that financing ways and means committee will work out to to prevent a fall in funding in this interim period while principally the tax or director of department of transportation thank you mr chairman members of the committee it's a pleasure to be here today and i will keep my remarks short there's been quite a bit of discussion about the critical nature transportation plays in the nation's infrastructure and also in our economy and i won't belabor that point we bill believe that we need to increase the investments at all levels of government for transportation because of the critical role that transportation plays in in the lives of the american people but the second point i'd like to make is the very important point that asto believes that we need to have a predictable well funded multi year authorization measure that reinforces the existing federal state partnership to get transportation projects that represent a collaborative  solution to transportation challenges it takes time to do that and we need to have that predictable funding source in order to be able to work with all partners at the local state and federal level in order to come up with those appropriate solutions for that asto is called an authorization bill with substantial reforms many of which were also proposed in chairman james oberstar as bill nevertheless we do have some concerns with some of the details and we recognize that we are at the beginning of the process and when we look forward to working with the members of this committee to help resolve some of the concerns that our member states have but simply put a well funded six year authorizing bill that respects that essential role of the state administering and delivering the surface transportation program is critical for your state deity's and for the governors the short term funding crisis is the element you know first of all let me appreciate the the work that's going on right now to help resolve this but this is something that does keep me awake at night we have contracts going right now and we only have two weeks left to solve this issue it's critical that congress transfer an additional eight billion dollars from the general fund to help get us through this fiscal year so that we can have surety in being able to pay those contractors that are working today out on our projects funding should also be provided to assure that there's no interruption in the two thousand and twelve highway program which begins in october of this year it's our estimation that it ishbel ten to twelve billion dollars will be needed to be transferred into the highway trust fund in order to assure solvency through the end of fiscal year two thousand and ten mr chairman we urge congress to increase the trust fund the resources of the trust one can meet the short and long term investment needs of our nation thank you gentlemen with that we turn to mr david a grotty general manager of my line transit authority morgantown west virginia mr chairman mr chairman and members of the committee thank you very much for the opportunity to offer testimony today i'd like to take a couple of minutes to highlight some of the more significant local impacts of your committee's efforts and to answer any questions you might have i have three primary points and i want to share with you and emphasize this is a tenuous time for transit we have a new pending bill and it's imperative we have a new funding bill we need a new national vision for service mobility and we can't wait any longer this is a tenuous time for transit a transit paradox if you will when fuel costs insurance utilities all on the rise local funding sources are being reduced even in one of the strongest local economies in the country and morgantown west virginia west virginia universities cut their funding by sixteen percent this year another local funding source eliminated one hundred thousand dollars in support to provide ninety five thousand passenger rides last year at the same time mountain lines ridership is up forty one percent year to date this is a tenuous time for transit nine need your support so that we can plan the way forward for my service and for my community secondly a new investment bill is imperative with one hundred fifty thousand recovery money my system bought three heavy duty buses manufactured in california with fair boxes built in illinois with seats manufactured in michigan they come from all over the country we need two new buses a year it's seven hundred thousand dollars to sustain our current services recovery investment is but a beginning it needs to continue thirdly we need a new vision for surface mobility more than forty percent of my buses are past their useful life i get retired buses from other systems to expand service i would run a light duty buses with two hundred eighty thousand miles on them and they were twice their intended lifespan in the last six years mountain lions f d a investments increased thirty three percent from about four hundred thousand to seven hundred thousand dollars yet our ridership is increased one hundred ninety four percent from four hundred thousand rods to one point one million rides we serve seniors rural areas college students we even go to pittsburgh with inner city bus service currently there's very little relationship between success and investment we need a new vision will enable people a meaningful alternative to the personal auto and we can't wait any longer mr chairman and members of the committee i respectfully request you submit my written comments on the record and i look forward your questions you with that we're going to turn to mr charlie butts chief executive officer heritage construction materials and the apple is in the annapolis indiana mr chairman members of the committee good morning i'm here today as the chairman of the american road and transportation builders association and i've spent over forty years in transportation development both as an executive of the florida department of transportation and as the c e o of two national construction and materials firms and i'd like to begin by saying that were appalled by the recent calls for an actions to postpone the of a new surface transportation program invest bill until at least march of two thousand and eleven i assure you the only people who might possibly see any benefit from such a delay are right here in washington c they are certainly not in the real world that i've worked in for for decades in the real world that little a means companies like mine will not be hiring people and will not be making the extensive expensive capital and investments in materials and equipment because quite frankly there's no prospect that the market is going to turn around anytime soon without that investment and make no mistake the evidence shows the transportation construction market in this country is constricting in many states at a very critical time were not expanding to help lead the economic by creating jobs that this nation desperately needs we learned the hard way from two thousand and one to two thousand and five that the uncertainly at the federal level at a time of economic and state budget difficulty leads to an overall stagnation of national effort to deliver surface transportation improvements mr chairman we commend you and your committee for doing this job and lead in this effort we encourage the committee to continue pushing forward to enact a bill this year and i want to thank you for this opportunity to participate in this dialogue with you and other members of the committe i thank the gentleman for a very cogent and effective statement mr raman reporting executive vice president actual construction alliance to thank you chairman to fazio ranking member duncan and distinguished members of the highways and transit subcommittee on behalf of the national construction alliance better known as n c a two partnership between two of the nation's leading construction unions the operating engineers and the carpenters want to express our appreciation for the opportunity to join you today to unions the alliance represent nearly one million workers the same workers who built the nation's surface transportation system my message today is simple and straightforward the n c a to respectfully request that congress move forward with the reauthorization of the nation's surface transportation law as soon as possible the administration's proposal to extend existing legal authority for eighteen months is an acceptable and eighteen month extension in practice indefinitely postpones reauthorizing the law ensuring that to work developing this legislation is pushed into the one hundred twelfth congress german to five zero the n c a two seeks to make three main points first early signs of progress from the recovery act will quickly be dashed without long range commitment to infrastructure second the uncertainty of an eighteen month extension undermines the long range planning of major transportation projects and third there is no logical connection between the problems in the highway trust fund and an eighteen month extension of the nation's surface to surface transportation law indeed both problems call for a solution the n c a to fears that the short term injection of resources into the nation's transportation system from the passage of the american recovery and reinvestment will not have the intended result unless a longer range commitment to infrastructure spending through a timely reauthorization of the nation's transportation law is passed by the hundred eleventh congress signed into law by president obama and the good news in a small sub sector of streets and highways and bridges we've picked up sixty thousand jobs in the last two months we can't afford to lose momentum on your efforts or on the investments contained in the recovery act the policy issues are known project delivery infrastructure banks public private partnerships and livability the process is moving the train is rolling the administration needs to jump on board and engage congress n c too strongly urges a subcommittee to continue the effort to pass a surface transportation authorization as soon as possible to reject the administration's eighteen month proposed extension and separately to fix the hole in the highway trust fund mr chairman america urgently needs a robust transportation bill along the lines of what you may for thank you so much we appreciate your leadership my members thank you through your actions you put them to work and you help them sustain their families you are the most important committee here in washington we thank you german oberstar members of the subcommittee thank you for the opportunity to present testimony this morning wanted to have that opportunity on behalf of motorcoach industries an american public transportation association which a chairman the numerous and very benefits of investment in public transportation including the personal billig congestion relief environmental quality of life benefits of this critical investment brings a reference to my written testimony however today your focus is on the economic imperative of passing the surface transportation bill and rightfully so this next imperative for the jobs and economic opportunities that will create for companies such as mine and many others throughout the industry this is a new stream of long and extended supplier base any investment that the surface transportation authorization act will provide will have an immense impact on jobs and both and our economy will immediately and for many years to come as you work our way out of this economic downturn this bill provides us with one of the best vehicles for advancing economic opportunity mr chairman i have two graphics like to show the subcommittee up on the screen the first is a dire rahma of a transit bus and it shows where we source our parts to build those buses from throughout this country big communities small communities communities at risk we get parts for buses have a similar slide for rail cars investing in  equipment across the country all jobs throughout our nation we benefit from those throughout the country including little places like our plants in pema north dakota where there are only seven hundred employees and we employ over three hundred people in the community alone building buses for this nation are suppliers must wait for orders to come from us the o e m s the m c i factories alone are supplied by more than three thousand suppliers and we look at the aftermarket support for a product there are ten thousand suppliers supporting the bus industry mr chairman jobs are at stake the opportunities around a corner and i commend the committee on its dedication to completing the strong authorization bill and my colleagues and i stand ready to work with you to ensure its passage mr chairman i also like to offer to the record a letter from opt mr kane that you said in your testimony that we need a more flexible funding system now secretary la hood was attacked for proposing the possibility of a vehicle which tax secretary la hood is said that the administration is opposed to a gas tax proposed taxing oil by the barrel with the idea that some of that tax could upstream to the opec cartel the oil speculators exxon mobil could lose a little of their obscene profits and then most recently i have proposed the idea of just taxing oil speculators not headers not trucking companies not airlines not railroads not steamship companies gest financial speculators one tenth of one percent raises forty billion dollars a year and that's if we soon we drive down the price of oil dramatically because they all get out of the market like they said that would be a good thing i think but i proposed the idea of bonding by putting a construction cost inflation on the gas tax and delaying that until such time as the economy recovers so two years from today might see a penny on the gas tax i figured that that would sixty billion up front into the trust fund which is broken how much more flexible can you get give me another idea we also have the infrastructure bank which will work for some projects which provide revenue obviously won't work for transit since all transit systems in the world lose money so we've got it in there you know what more flexible you want then any other ideas give me one or does or is that just a code word for we don't want to address revenues and increase investment in the trust fund until after eighteen months and i don't know how it's going to be any easier in eighteen months when the president's up for regarding the futures small tax on futures or quarter percent or whatever the number is and that's been sent by you directly to the white house and from the comic team and i've talked to them about it and they are analyzing and the treasury department is analyzing it i know that one of the questions being analyzed is the degree to which it would change the behavior of speculate of people who trade in those contracts in one way at least which is by moving those trades offshore and therefore not well remember the provision would be that any entity or individual engaged in this trading dhamma silden the united states of america would have to pay the tax so you could start trading in bahrain but if you unless you want to move to  rain you're going to pay the tax and i don't definitely don't want to move to bahrain but what i'm saying is there is there are ways to do this there is a lot of reach plus that you might have noticed there's also interest in the european union on doing away with speculation in these markets seems to be they seem to be a lot more serious about it than we are so if you add up the e u in the united states there's not a whole heck of a lot of places to go and so on that point i know that bad idea is being looked at seriously on make sure that this question of dumb asylum is being properly factored into whatever analysis is done as to our suggestions for long term revenue i think that that's a place where the administration is sort of not quite ready to make a particular proposal and that is i think part of the motivation behind the proposed extension so we're going to put up a difficult decision for eighteen months hoping that somehow miraculously won't be a difficult decision in eighteen months like i just stated in that that a gas tax increase we have the highest unemployment in america new york times says our unemployment rate in the state of oregon when you factor in underemployed and exhausted benefits is twenty three percent and we have well over thirty percent unemployment in our construction sector now i think people in oregon would be happy to pay a tiny bit more at the pump instead of giving it to exxon mobil to see that we put more people back to work and i think people all across america would like to see that kind of investment so i think that the administration is being unnecessarily of versed and underestimating the capability of the american public understanding that when they put a little bit of money into transportation infrastructure they get a better transportation system and we get jobs real jobs you know that's that's you know i think just the administration needs to rethink rethink this strategy but let's get to the other point i agree with chairman over star red always reads as well as a guy is really good this great he's making good points and i came to the same point he did which is well now there's a wrong conclusion which seems to have been appended on by someone other than whoever wrote the testimony perhaps someone from the economic team i don't know so i guess my question is if you're confronted with  what senator boxer has proposed which is eighteen months no change in policy you're stuck with the crippling and decrepit policies of the past no reorganization none of the other things that are in our bill  we're going to come down here you're going to deal with us are you going to deal with them because us we want longer term them they just want status quo one hundred percent that is we not only forego a million jobs a year  we forego any meaningful changes in policy to deliver projects more quickly and less and less expense what i think i can say about that is that we were appreciative of the action that boxer's committee took yesterday to move forward one step on the eighteen month extension obviously our proposal also includes some reform elements there which we have talked about in broad concepts and about which we hope to speak more  but most of those concepts would be under the jurisdiction of the p w and not the subsequent referrals in the senate so it doesn't look like you're on track to getting what you want out of the united states senate you would get eighteen months status quo is that acceptable to these this administration eighteen months with no change in policy is that acceptable i don't think it's my place to try to make policy on that would i make a pause they just asking is acceptable or not how about this i don't think it's my place to is just a key point with me if we do eighteen months how many twenty four thirty six forty eight or sixty months projects will be planned with an eighteen month extension and begin construction i'd probably say zero you know looking at the last reauthorization is that we've had when they when you when with the six month extension and twelve month extension from my point of view and dealing with the contractors do we have the in highway work throughout the country it is real lag by the time you actually put a bill in place and we actually get construction going i mean we're seeing that in the recovery act right now my point was we're just starting it's just starting to kick in we're just starting to get some traction on that job creation but this delay here in this business is usual is really unfortunate i'm very disappointed in the administration's position disappointed in the what the senate did yesterday and i applaud you and your committee here for trying to put america back to work is there anybody on the panel who thinks that states are transit this trix would undertake very large scale multi year projects under an eighteen month extension and then for mr cain it's could could this is the department of transportation do a full funding grand agreement on a large transit project that was going to take say five years do you think you've got enough contingent contract authority under current funding levels our staff analysis says no basically we're going to forego those things under this eighteen month pension  yes that's actually a pertinent question that we've spent some time looking at and has come into play frankly with a very large project in the in new jersey new york area where basically everything is apparently ready to go and we have been able to sign a full funding grant agreement because of as you understand the way the commitment authority rolls forward without a long term authorization that project is still on track to proceed as quickly as it can from an engineering point of view because of a but if we do an all or agreement we work we do in eighteen months with no policy changes it's going to kind of halt that as long as you go at least a year and that will give us an additional year of commitment authority i'm allowed number of projects move forward i would say from the state side to the exclusion of every other project in america at that point because i mean our staff analysis is there's just not a lot out there with unless you get the new funding levels we're proposing in the new flexibilities we're proposing for transit within the within the congested urban areas on the larger level i would agree with that which is the problem of the new starts program one of the problems with the new start program it is it has become something for which demand wildly out places our ability to fund and so i think one of our priorities in anywhere authorization would be to try to rectify that imbalance and and create much more of a ability to fund many projects and so we'll have staff follow up with your staff but you're thinking we could squeeze in this one major project with a year extension but basically that would be it for transit rest the rest of america would wait  thank you i thank i thank you my time's expired mr duncan well thank you very much mr chairman and i won't have to ask many questions because i agree with almost everything the witnesses have said here today but i will i say this you know our founding fathers instituted two year terms for the members of the house we have to run every other year and they did that on purpose because they felt that that would put more pressure on members of the house to stay close very close to the people and i think that even they would be amazed at how accurate that prediction has become because of our good transportation system most members of the house and go home just about every weekend they spend they probably spend almost as much or more times in their more time in their district than they do here nor shinton and so i think that almost all of us in the house and really know on the close firsthand basis the needs of our communities and so because of out and have it out this year without much delay i'm fact that i think when we started this congress i think there was a tremendous desire to try to avoid it ever in every way loon two thousand and five and all of those bills that have received overwhelming support on both sides of that one of the one of several reasons but one of the very much most important reasons that i have always joyce my service on this committee and i have always treated this committee as my main committee out of the three on which i serve is because of the bipartisan or non nonpartisan nature of this committee and i think most members know that i very seldom say anything partisan i will say though that i think it's accurate to say that almost everybody on our side of that both on this committee and in the full house feel that the cap and trade bill and the half a bill that if the congress passes both those bills that those bills because of their tax increases and other costs that those bills will destroy jobs and that those are the kind of bills that maybe we could pass in boom times but not in time such as we face today but the opposite of that is this the highway bill because i don't think anybody in the house can think of another big bill that would do more to help the economy and create jobs and do things for the people in this country  i mentioned many times in hearings in this committee that i think it's very unfortunate that we have spent so many mega billions rebuilding iraq and afghanistan and even other places around the world and then we have so much trouble getting through legislation like this that is so needed in this country now let me just ask you just a couple of questions  it's you said in your testimony that if we did just a simple straight clean extension that some people are talking about in that you advocate that that that we still could do some in this intervening period so that if and when we can get a major reauthorization potentially with a large much significantly larger amount of funding that the systems by which we're determining whether we're designing projects as good as they can be designed and selecting the best projects that generate the most benefits for folks locally and in response to the national need are as robust as they can be that's and so there's a bunch of complexity that can be behind that but that's the basic idea the second an even greater focus there and so we want to undertake some some cooperative work with those folks to make sure that their capacity to really ramp up and deal with the very difficult and complicated multi modal transportation challenges in our in our larger metropolitan areas is as strong as it can be and so there will be some funding associated with that the third of which is something i think you've heard the secretary speak about which is a little communities program he believes that's really can be a great thing going forward in the federal government can be much more of a leader in that area rather than sort of following local initiatives which is a lot of what's happened until now and that's why some pedestrian infrastructure linked in with transit and transit oriented development and there's a bunch of  pronouncing that name wrong but you're here is representatives for various companies around the country would would would both of you tell me if you can a little bit more about your specific companies and  people you employ email how many people you employ what was the most ever number of people's you people you employed and him how much difference you think it would mean for your specific companies to do just the temporary extension as opposed to doing a strong solid approximately five hundred billion dollar bill mr potts well first of all we have for the first time in about over ten years have made reductions in our workforce because of lack work meaning in our our business and we've actually shut down some ragged operations because there's just no volume but we're not the only ones that have done that i was talking to the chairman of board of ass tech industries in your state yesterday and he told me that because of lack of orders they have had to reduce their workforce by twenty five percent so it's not only our business but all of the allied businesses they go along with it and in the last year the construction transportation construction industry has lost thirty seven thousand jobs across the country and one of the bigger problems that i don't think people recognize in our business are the spikes up and down and had effect in keeping our workforce in place it's hard to attract new people into this industry when they don't have assurance of stability of the the jobs supporting their families and the one thing that i think that we don't see is that now our our workforce is aging o skilled workers and trying to attract new people into the to the business it's it's hard when they see two years it's great the eastern famine and as we see it most of the hours i see it own policy agenda but this is i think is appalling when you look at the thirty seven thousand jobs that have been lost in the last year and unfortunately alone way that the back and forth rhetoric is an exercise its oversight shattering the simple fact and you pointed out a couple of the things that there's twenty two thousand fatalities every year that could be avoided if we correct some of the road problems that we have traffic congestion is causing it's a problem and the other fact is that it's affecting our competitiveness in the work in the global economy i've lobbied and worked with chairman over starr and his staff for the least the last six or seven years directly because i thought we needed a new vision in a new direction for this program the house came forward with what i think is a robust reform oriented multi year program that would stabilize coach industries we are the largest of the world manufacturer of motor coaches in north america we've been in place for seventy six years we employ about two thousand employees and in not just in pema north dakota but in places like lebanon tennessee and lo ville ohio we have so what is that in like a lot of bill seventy employees their major employer in that community we recently came out of chapter eleven restructuring i can speak with great authority the challenges of access to financing  impact on jobs and our companies split fairly equally between the private sector two or charter companies and line haul operators and the public sector for transit agencies across this country were it not for the investment in the public sector in tr right now we would have significant layoffs are a has made a significant impact on keeping jobs in our location and as we look going forward you have to understand that bus manufacturers typically run twelve to eighteen months out from when the order comes in so we build a bus w with the way that's we're already at with production schedules rail cars are two to four years out so you look at investments in new products new innovation hybrids all fuels things like that we have to look at investing money in the future and if our customers don't know what funding they're going to have how can we make investment and how can we go to the lending institutions that give us the funds we need to operate our businesses and say please give us those funds we need now to maintain the jobs to plan for the future and we don't know if they're going to have that money this is critical to the jobs of our communities we're talking about putting high tech jobs training people to build hybrid high tech buses in pema north dakota those are major investments and if we lose those people they're gonna go find other jobs and it's not easy to attract people to come back to these real at risk communities and build these types of equipment this is critical to our future innocent astri thank you well thank you very much i actually was born in lebanon tennessee but to let the let me decide take a moment since mr punch brought up the fatalities and since the main emphasis of this committee has always been safety i will tell y tell you something sort of a story about that in my district in east tennessee there was a there is a highway highway four eleven and it was known as a death trap one of the most dangerous highways in the state of tennessee so much so that people were just getting killed on that highway on a very frequent basis and my chief of staff bob griffiths his only sibling who was the quarterback of the greenback a school football team many years ago was killed on that very highway at the end of his senior year in high school fast forward from there and about thirty years later mr griffiths has a first cousin whose son was the quarterback of the greenback a school football team who at the end of his senior year was killed on that same highway through this committee we got the funds to widen that highway and turn into a four lane highway with  some turn lanes and and made that into now one of the safest highways on in the state of tennessee and i will tell you that that's what has happened through the work of this committee and the and the over this nation is this these bills saved thousands and thousands of lives as you said and i think that's something that we need to keep side of this and keep in mind as we go through this process thank you very much mr  thank the chair and i would again associate myself with your remarks you know mr chairman we are working hard to pass a health care bill but this is about the health of break on a me and i would ask  panelists i didn't think we got much help from the administration on the answer to your question earlier about how we're going to pay for this and i think it's an important question and i would i'd like to ask the rest of the panelists what their thoughts are and also the thoughts about the consequences of not paying for it which some of you've already addressed you know you don't get that it's not cost free to not do something there's a huge cost to doing nothing and what are your thoughts to the rest of the panel on how we might try to pay for this because i believe we need to move this thing forward with great vigor and urgency congressman if i may i think that the the result of us not doing anything is not going to be much except that we're going to have more seniors that are shut in we're going to have more people who can't get to doctors appointments we're going to have more people setting in congestion safety may improve because my buses will be sitting in congested roads and nobody's going to be going fast enough to create a really bad accident it's not going to make a big difference and that's what we need we need a big difference in what's going on out there in our communities and without a new vision a new funding vision and a new orientation from the federal transfer to ministration or whatever it's following agency is we're not going to see that we're not going to have that and this committee's work i think steers us in the direction that we need to go it's outlined a good framework and frankly i think we don't have any choice we need to move this forward in a couple of comments one we have consistently said that every option should be on the table to pay for it is nothing is free and to arbitrarily remove any option from the table is a negative you've got to consider every option in order to fund it but this is an investment in america and it returns a high dividend all of us in the private industry look at our return on investments that we we put and if we could get the same return only investment we put in the transportation system in this country believe me that's where we've put every dollar we have because in the return i extremely high as i pointed out while ago just the loss of life alone is costing this country two hundred seventeen billion dollars a year congestion is costing us over eighty million and worse than that we are losing ground from a competitive standpoint in the world economy and every job we create in this industry is not exported let me follow up on the point just made about congestion costing eighty billion dollars we're talking about a five hundred billion dollar bill over five years eighty billion dollars pretty close to one hundred billion dollars you don't have to do a whole lot of complex math you know one of the things about this committee is what we do is paid for unlike almost half of your committee in the congress but in highway and transit we're talking about actually paying for it and not only paying for directly but here we've got a cost savings just in the in the congestion alone that nearly pays for the price of the bill so the investment will return very generously to the american people and i don't know i'm certain all of us would say that the lives of our loved ones are literally priceless and so the congestion in time away from our families and the cost and opportunity cost of that time and i would just say the administration i don't get it i have immense respect for the president the secretary of transportation but we elected this president on a platform of change this committee under the leadership of chairman over start chairman defiles you are proposing change bold change and instead in one of the central areas of economic recovery we're getting status quo or worse so i'd like to see some change we can believe in and i would just urge this panel of witnesses to work with this committee if you have ready but to get your members to talk to their members of the house and senate and you know the great thing about the united states constitution from my perspective is article one and that's us and mr chairman the vas you and mr oberstar i fully support you in your jency to pass something and we should do so assert our authority as united states congress a legislative branch in place not too far from here called the senate needs to follow our example and we'll get this thing done thank you responses for me to give you the first of which is we made an error and the secretary has taken personal responsibility for that and taken steps that you know about to try to  as by way of explanation i think what happened in part was a result of criteria in the recovery act that are somewhat different than the criteria and the underlying scary program as you've stated well you know the seattle ferry system on which i have written i have funding the categorization of economically distressed areas that's in the recovery act i think is at the root of what may have happened here at the underlying levels of the department and it has helped  highlight for us something we had already identified as an issue which is the recovery act as a priority must be given to economically distressed areas and once we have looked into the question of under federal law and regulation and what is an economically distressed area unfortunately what we have found is that there are very specific criteria that the commerce department is elucidated may involve going in looking back at unemployment and other data that goes back twenty four months and so i think everyone here knows the economic situation in the country generally and in particular parts of the country was very very different twenty four months ago and it is now and so we both have a time lag problem where economically distressed areas are being officially identified according to the process working with the commerce department to try to come up with a better way to do a genocide the places that we believe we believe the intention of economically distressed was a good intention and we believe the message that we've been given to sort of sift for that is not perfect or trying to find a way to look at it  but i think the most important thing is that we don't disagree with your critique in fact secretary agreed with it and that's why he's trying to remedy it with the gentleman the secretaries yes i will yield secretaries analysis itself that has been standard in the class with keisha distressed areas for at least twenty five years so i suggest you go back and reconsider those matters with e you're right in terms of the time like when this recession started washing the states overall unemployment rate was well below the national average in fact but because of our dependence on trade when the recession kicked in globally we quickly caught up and now are actually ahead of the national unemployment rate so i can understand why two years ago if you look at that number you think well nothing's wrong you look at today's number it's  formula as we move as we move forward in the authorization bill and and hope that we can all learn some lessons about this as well as we move forward and develop a good formula that that's respectful of all the  systems in the country but also recognizes that there are some that are much larger and some that are much smaller much smaller than others i would recommend one one week form for the administration and set of eighteen month explain that in south carolina unemployment is over twelve percent with the third largest highs in the nation and you heard the the chairman of the committees talk about argot being the same way i don't know what but you know  construction so the secretary i don't understand the the the strategy behind the president's decision to delay the highway construction i noted in the stimulus bill only about twenty eight billion was put in there of the six hundred eighty seven billion which could have been a real ploy ploy opportunity but likely missed that and i would hope that you would encourage the other members of the ministration to become serious about dealing with the unemployment and we can do it by creating a new highway bill to be able to get people back to work another thing that i talked about this morning this but the red tape that it takes to get things moving i think in so you're one of the four hundred sixty three million has been allocated through the stimulus package only about four hundred thousand dollars have been spent because of the the red tape and i know we've got some construction folks on the panel o i think that's a common problem throughout the country there's been comments made earlier my standard assessment is once if everything stays the same the way it's been for years once  bill is passed it's anywhere from eighteen to twenty four as much as thirty months sometimes before we see the product so that also tell you that if you stand for eighteen months and get into a new program all you're doing  extending the inevitable and it's hard to make investments and in from our standpoint with that kind of time lag but you know realistically it's always been about eighteen to thirty months and it all has to do is just getting it through the process if i might respond to that sir i think on the recovery act in particular that there are figures out that there are out there that relate to sort of dollars spent in traditional that's the number of dollars that have actually been outlaid and and our view has been that that understates the current activity under way due to the recovery act particular under the highway program because of a program in which we reimburse states for expenses that they have already incurred so when we give a state a go ahead an obligation you know the right to go obligate funds for projects they start spending their money and then you know sometimes fifteen days thirty days sixty days later we get the bills and we pay them out and then the official data show that federal government having quote spend money but there's currently over five thousand projects that have been approved to proceed and where expenses are being a crude but the data of federal reimbursements are lag well behind that so if i could just follow through what we've released as a sort of a broad outline where we believe that the least for starting out that banks should be focused on transportation projects all that we would be open to projects that have elements of other infrastructure in them but transportation would be to focus on and it would be able to offer grants loans credit support other things that we have some experience with the to your program that this committee has authorized but for which we'd like to be able to do a lot more as to the specific sort of  leverage ratios or interest rates i don't think those things have quite been worked out yet and frankly that would be i think a major point of whatever debate occurs here in the senate over creating that but i don't personally when i work instead of pennsylvania we had a state infrastructure bank that was part of the program that this committee helped to create and it was of some good but frankly of too small to really have an impact on big projects and help us do some small things but that's sort of part of the vision i think of the present suppose i was trying to get a larger  the budget resolution that could be the beginnings of it and i know that the appropriations committee here in the house the other day released a chairman's mark for their subcommittee which i don't know if a reserve fund is quite the right word but said that there would be some funds in that appropriation that if the thing were authorized would be available to it for year one two billion dollars i think it's realistic to say that it's something that would need to ramp up over time so you might start smaller than you would hope to end up the prospects for authorizing such a program in gained lives saved pollution reduced all the things the administration says it claims it is wants to do and actually what we've concluded is this highway reauthorization bellus the surface transportation bill accomplishes all that stuff for a hell of a good price to be quite honest i don't know why we're pushing back for eighteen months i think we should well for lack of a better term starting to hit the gas in anybody want to lean on that please most melfi the congressman in transit with after we've done some studies on that commissions remember committees on every tax dollar invested in public transportation generates an average of six dollars an economic return every billion dollars in federal funding invested in transportation infrastructure supports thirty thousand jobs and those are green jobs green technology that but others were building a green infrastructure for this country and it's a very very clear pay back in investment sure and the point is that these are all the things that the campaign and early on in the administration they claim that they really want to do it's the opportunity misspoke or thank you congressman i mean we are in the worst recession since the great depression you would think the priorities would be to pass legislation that actually put people to work long range planning and you can do it as you've mentioned right here for pennies where the gas that maybe we need a nickel or a dime to fix the highway trust fund but six years in millions of jobs what it creates also is is the people that actually go out there and build our roads and highways for the most part the members i represent have their own health care but they've got to pay into it themselves if they don't have jobs they lose that health care and you create this other problem so the administration's got health care out there and they've got cap and trade i think they've got their priorities wrong i think first fix and reauthorize the highway bill and then take a look at those other two major issues and i hope maybe you can persuade them to do just that and it's our hope as well carney you know we run a shuttle between morgantown and pittsburgh and we put forty folks on that bus it only gets six mpg but when you put forty people on it it gets two hundred forty people miles to the gallon it only has one carbon emission engine it's not forty going back and forth i'm beginning over the last couple weeks i'm beginning to find feel a little bit naive i thought with the stimulus we're being asked to to go out there to help the minimum wage earners give them a viable alternative for transportation so that they can use their money for health care spend it in the local economy save it for their kids education so stead of buying two buses with my stimulus funds i bought three and i invested some of our local reserve funds and it i said you know this can be our contribution trances always stepped up we've always been able to help and do what we can so i thought well we'll take that extra step but now that's everyone's pulled back i'm committed i have a purchase order out there or not m but we have our purchase order out there and we'd like to see that pipeline continue we're set we're ready to go and that's what we like the direction of this committee we want to see them forward a lot to south to biblical here but don't jobs beget jobs they do thank you and what else well i try not to repeat myself but i think the it's the best return on investment we can make if you do look at the surveys that we've done in the past what's the most concern to when people talk about a delivery system talk about the impact on the economy safety and congestion you've announced congestion has been number one on this but this bill addresses each one of those and the every since the interstate highway act in the one nine hundred fifty s this country is economic engine has been our delivery system and it's time for us to take a new direction with it which this bill addresses it addresses every single area whether you're talking about energy efficiency the climate the economy jobs about stimulus funding and maybe one of you could help me address this perhaps from one of the states in pennsylvania for example i noticed that there's about seven hundred thirty million dollars of stimulus funding that's been obligated or committed but as of june thirtieth about nine million dollars had been spent on road and bridge projects that was actually spent i understand much is committed and i was just curious what is happening in some other states and i know you talk west virginia maybe want you to comment on that issue for me how quickly are you able to spend the money and i not blaming you if you're not able to do it quickly because i understand  one federal dollar you get a federal process and you know so you're using the money to resurface rose probably in the paint bridges and and that's about all you can do quickly i guess so could you perhaps help me with that  identified that we would have over twelve billion dollars worth of projects that we could commit and have all the gaited within the potential ninety day period today we we received two hundred thirteen point five million dollars in utah were relatively small states we've all get it over ninety five percent of those funds we finished two of those two of those projects are actually complete or working on close out right now and most of the projects are under construction today now there is that certain time lag where we have contractors out there working and the reimbursement requests are still lagging behind that so i think our state's member states have done has been truly remarkable in the way that they've all stepped up and been able to commit these monies as quickly as they have i think the urgency that was brought to the table from the states and from the federal highway administration they were remarkable partners in helping us get to this point it was a it was a big challenge but we feel proud about what we've been able to demonstrate that we can commit money to good projects projects that put people to work and really we talk about the immediate needs immediate crisis that we're in and the need to put people to work quickly but we shouldn't lose sight of the long term economic benefits that these projects are going to generate they are going to be assets that are going to be a benefit to this country for you know fifty to one hundred years and i believe in the long run the long term benefit of these transportation projects that's what's truly go prove as a foundation for the economy in the quality of life in this country congressman david brody our state i can't speak to the specific on the numbers on highways but i know that we did have three major projects in our three congressional districts and highways as we move forward i know that they're also working on some smaller federal highway projects because i experienced the paving on the way over here the other for transit what we did was encourage all of our members there eighteen transit systems in west virginia we encourage those folks to commit their funds to large major capital items that wouldn't require environmental reviews things like buying buses things like buying equipment so that we could get that money turned around and out the door very quickly for my part we're to shoot a purchase order march or april i believe for our nine hundred fifty thousand dollars and i know our our other urban partners have done the same thing with their transit funding they turned it around very quickly to try and be a participant in the  reauthorization of the surface transportation reauthorization the big complaint i keep hearing back home heard for years is that it's just hard to get a lot of these projects moving because of the need for process and do you think we need to engage in any type of serious reform and need to if we want to get work moving more quickly in this country this is something about which i have actually a fair amount of experience over the last ten years or so and what my experience has taught me process we have and make it work more efficiently and quicker i would say absolutely i think you meant well you as well there's things that have to do with how property is acquired if property is acquired under eminent domain how long it takes to settle with landowners  are the standards under those when i was a court reviews work and then relocation of utility lines relocation of railroad lines engineering and design practices reimbursement how quickly the contractors get reimbursed for engineering and design and wetlands permit air permit those types of permits and so the way in which i think the states that have been most successful in doing this have been by creating better relationships between environmental and transportation agencies including in some cases transportation funds being used to make sure that there are enough employees in the environmental agency so that the stack of projects in review isn't sort of sitting in the inbox that it's getting handled quickly as well as konqueror and reviews of different types of permits  but it's it's sort of laborious process where that whatever you call need to reform or process or even one i think a lot of people back home i suspect the state transportation secretary is with like to see process reform as well so let's administration the president proposed a tax cut many of us myself included felt that the money might have been better spent in terms of putting it into infrastructure development that didn't happen i supported it because i felt it was good for the country and we needed  it the stimulus plan you know when the president came out with a stimulus plan i felt that significant we larger amount and i know many of the people and committee felt that a significantly larger part should have gone to infrastructure not as much went into it as we would have liked to have seen but i will say this i was home recently and went to a dedication of well wasn't dedication but is actually groundbreaking for beginning some road construction i'm from new york we are not new york state is not spending they don't have a lot of money to spend on road construction this was strictly stimulus money and we're seeing real people going to work as a result of the stimulus money i went to a ryan bus company which is in my district saw that they have just hired a significantly larger number of people because they're getting new orders for hybrid buses those are people that would not have been working but for the fact that we are spending money on infrastructure it's something that we know and i'm not sure about all the other things that we did that the last administration in this administration did with respect to creating jobs but the one thing that i know is when we spend money on infrastructure jobs are truly created and we end up with something very good in the long term  we need to be we need to focus on this bill and we need to get this bill passed because we know from experience both long term and short term that this will create jobs i have just just one mr preservers when i talk to people in the private sector business people they always tell me when you act in congress please keep in mind that we as business people like to see long term plans because then we can structure our business plan based upon what you do do you find the same thing with respect to your planning and d o t with respect to the decisions that we make here on this committee excuse me absolutely sir it is critical for us to have some long term predictable funding some assurances of what we're going to have to do our processes do take longer than we wish they would take our customers wish we could turn around projects quicker but it takes a long time to come up with a collaborative solution that works for all the different parties that we're trying to satisfy but having that long term vision understanding where we're going as a country and then also knowing that the funding is there allows us to begin those discussions in the first place one of the things that's really critical for us in the what we manage in utah very very specifically is we want to manage public's expectations so we will not begin a significant project a large project if we do not have a way forward if we do not understand how we're going to be able to pay for it or if it's going to be something that's supportive or aligns with the goals of this nation so what this congress does is absolutely critical and how we're going to be able to move forward in the future mr bruff so you are not in your head do you agree with that absolutely it's we need to know what we can plan and especially about what we tell the public what we promise them we can't promise something we can't deliver that they will come home we have to answer for that if we keep in the pipeline the these buses that we're buying you're absolutely right the long term investment in infrastructure these are ten and twelve year pieces of equipment this is not a car we're just going to buy today and use this is going to out on the road providing public service for the next ten twelve are the way my system runs that means fifteen or twenty years it's going to be in service for a long time that's the investment that we need we can do that over time to keep those factories working we keep those thank you mr chairman i just have a couple quick questions i'll be brief as well i noticed that the that the undersecretary ken it's when you when you made your remarks at least in your written testimony you said the federal government to implement if you targeted reforms in preparation for a six year authorization when the economy begins to recover first of all i don't understand that notion that rational thinking that we're going to wait for the economy to recover before we implement targeted projects that are going to create jobs right now and that are ready to go secondly is it fair to say that the department of transportation is is balking or  rejecting the consolidation efforts that would be comprised in this reauthorization bill an answer to the second question i would say i don't think it's fair to say that we are rejecting those i think it's fair to say that we look forward to working with and all the members of this committee to try to do a lot of that type of thing we may have different points of view on individual pieces of it but i think the larger sort of theme that mr over stars laid out which is a more multi mo program a more accountable program a more consolidated simpler program are all themes that i think almost everyone agrees with and that includes i think the calls for revolution are the calls for reform and consolidation will quiet down in eighteen months i haven't heard calls for revolution i don't think calls for reform will quiet down i don't think it will at the the question of the sort of eighteen month extension i think unfortunately the key factor in that is really the shortfall between the desire for funding and the revenues to support increase that would be required to support the authorization levels called for in the proposal is certainly much larger than anything congress has even considered let alone done for since i've been paying attention to this for twenty five years and and this is a pretty bad time for something like that well i were you as with the chairman the members of this committee heard from the long cast of in the days that you've heard today that we're going to be judged by two measures by action or inaction and now is the time to act waiting another eighteen months who knows what the appetite for the country will be who knows where we will be as a nation when free allow unemployment figures to continue to skyrocket this is the time to act and we can make these long term investments that will mean all the difference for states like ohio and all these members districts the sit on this panel you know back to my time as chairman i just can't resist mr opening up self and i proposed a lot ways and tried to think out of the box on financing but even beyond that god forbid maybe we would borrow the money i think would be a better investment than the twenty bucks a week that only those who still have jobs are getting those who are unemployed or yet and i'm still in a bottle as are building a bridges or health care i t whatever that is maybe that could have been in the health bill not borrowed money in the emergency supplemental on and on and on so it seems to me we can borrow money for all sorts of stuff if you borrow money and build a bridge the last one hundred years that's a lot bill a lot better deal for someone twenty eight years from today someone's grandkid who's paying taxes to pay back that  than when granddad got the twenty bucks a week and spend it you know on a pizza so i think there's a lot of ways to get at this and you brought doug up like civility let's be flexible and maybe maybe we need to borrow the money maybe we need to bond there's a lot of things we can do anyway but that is richardson thank you mr chairman mr cannon and i apologize if i butchered your name there based upon today's committee's hearing what will your message be back to the ministration and if you could be as brief as possible my message will be that the members of the committee led by the chair and ranking member of the subcommittee in the full committee were unanimous in their have been treated more than fairly did you hear last sunday vice president biden was on one of the sunday talk shows did you hear his comments regarding the stimulus and transportation results or did you see the clips or any of the internet i saw recount things i did watch it and what was your impression you know we there has been a growing industry of pushback against the effectiveness of the stimulus  program and i think that that's something frankly that we don't disagree with what one of the big arguments when there have been past pushes for stimulus funding that has been an argument against including infrastructure investment as well you know we need to know is right now next three months six months and then structure investment takes a long and i think one of the breakthroughs that was made in the recovery act was folks understood up to the downturn it was going to be a long downturn and so investing in things that are not instantaneous but create employment and job economic benefits over six twelve eighteen twenty four months is well sized to that type of current economic situation and the fact that we're four months in and the you know the world has changed dramatically overnight i think is not really the correct focus ok if your answer could be pretty brief on my last two because i've got to get there time sorry based upon your knowledge of the various departments within the administration do you have any perception or have you guys heard who has best perform with the stimulus dollars i don't think that's something honestly i'm confident to say i'm spending a lot of hours every week working on our piece of it so i don't want paying attention to the let me is my last two minutes and to recap of why i asked you the questions that i did it seems quite clear to me and i'm going to be very frank for the record we were in a caucus meeting and i saw our chairman take a tremendous hit to push with the administration to include more funding for the reauthorization i thought he took an und hit and for the record i think our chairman was right and i think the president was clearly wrong i do not and the message i'd like for you to take back to the secretary i don't intend upon supporting any second stimulus bill the second stimulus should be the authorization of this transportation bill the vice president has acknowledged when he was asked the question what has the been the success of this bill the only one he could recites clearly was the results of the the as all the supply chain benefits as i call them iron and steel industry cement and ready mix on a gas extraction all the way down through through landscaping would like you to add to that we're all those parts are manufactured if you do that for our next hearing on the progress on the recovery act i think it would be very beneficial if we could have that not only for your company but for the other bus and rail car manufacturers it shows the wide distribution of jobs created not only at the point of delivery but in the supply chain producing those products splendid testimony just before i also want to thank not only for your testimony which i all but cheered jumped out of my chair as the point is though that there is no need for extension of current law all we need to do is plug the hole there is a gap the  end of august the trust fund is taking its goes into negative balance right week of september for trust fund will will need an infusion september eleventh a voucher from the states will total two point four billion dollars and revenues deposited treasury into the trust fund will be one point six billion that's eight hundred million dollars shortfall the week of september twenty five through the following week  vultures from the states will be two billion dollars against one point five five billion dollars that's a four hundred fifty million dollar shortfall anticipated projected revenues could be different not much probably for a one point two billion dollar shortfall if we did as as was done in zero eight make an intra governmental transfer that would keep the trust fund solvent the funds would continue to be paid out and if you did a little bit more than that sure that we go into the second week of october with a full boat the projection is that the week of october eighth voters from states will be one point six billion against revenues into the trust fund two point zero billion that's due to a curious anomaly we crafted into anticipating this in safety in two thousand and five so to do that requires only action by the ways and means committee was jurisdiction over the trust fund and take and authorize and direct and in governmental transfer from general revenues into the trust fund from those revenues that the appropriations committee over the last ten years is taken out of the trust fund to pay for disaster relief from hurricanes and floods and other earthquake and other disasters that have occurred they've taken seven point three billion dollars out of the trust fund revenues over and above the hundred million dollars that we provide annually for disaster relief through the highway trust fund so that revenue is owed to the trust fund a need needs to be repatriated that's really all we need to do need not authorize anything else we also can justify that intragovernmental transfer on the basis that the trust fund is owed eight billion chairmanship in ninety eight with them the clinton administration and then the republican majority in the house conspiring against not used her and me partnering on that bill to get the fire walls built around the trust fund so in the end to get the deal we gave up the only trust fund that does not get interest payments on revenues into the treasury only only trust in medicare process actually that goes back to december of zero seven when we first proposed working with ashton with a r t b a with a g c with the building trades and transit agencies we asked for a listing of projects that were shovel ready as the term has become but by that we define it to mean design and engineering right of way acquired e i a s completed down to final design and engineering ready to go to bit in that initial list of have five thousand eight hundred forty projects approved by state deities and four thousand ninety eight projects out to bid through the end of may that number will go up as  parr testified twenty three hundred projects under contract worth six and a half billion dollars under contract and twelve hundred projects on which work is underway that's only through the end of may that number is almost double by now maybe even more than double so i am quite certain that you have you state the o t s have a list of additional projects that are state of good repair projects projects in bring your roadways or bridge surfaces up to a usable condition and i would  like i would recommend to ash though in cooperation with federal highways with air to be able to a g c to refine on that list and get it into us because if there is going to be a second stimulus it's going to be highways or nothing else because i see i don't know of any person who can put back to work by the three hundred billion dollars tax cut i have attacked a single member was received an e mail thank you note or handshake from a constituent who said gee thanks for the tax cut they don't even know that their taxes have been cut but they do know that work is underway on highway projects and street projects bridge projects all across america and that those transit buses are being built  going to do a six year bill and we're going to need your help all of you so that we don't have to send the administration through head start to understand what we need to do for the future of transportation