twenty two dash thirty state properties l l c filed the petition for tax the heat redemption period was extended to november st of two thousand and eighteen which is within three years of seo and it no notice and large to take notice with the king county sheriff's office for service upon interesting parts of the issue the main issue in this case is interested upon diligent inquiry and effort cannot be found or served with notice in the county as provided in section and the person in actual occupancy and possession is tenant to or in possession under the owners or the parties interested in the property and service of notice upon the tenant occupant a person in possession shall be deemed service upon the owner or party's interest and july the th of two thousand and eighteen th states that there was another male at the property an adult not identified by name but who told the sheriff's deputy that he was the ex fiance of heaven and news and that she no longer resigned  nt to a court order for having for having committed a crime against the purported ex fiance the trial court's finding that the s l or conduct their own searches and the legislature was not convinced that the tax payers and expertise were sufficient to do this and for that reason they enact the public at nine the pending criminal case involving this nine years was not disclosed and searched the reason for that is that i don't companies are not charged with searching criminal databases from for information they they want to identify any possible judgments liens so that the judgment holders and or you know holders can be provided with notice and they have a right to redeem to protect their interests there's absolutely no  there's no justifiable reason the company would be charged with performing a criminal search and for that reason the trying to courts imposition  know the trial judge attached to his order sustaining the objection a printout which shows the history of the criminal case against  of the subject property correct and that transcript is not in the record  and didn't the court really consider that public records included in the criminal database of the cane county circuit clerk's office yes that's exactly but the basis for my appeal is that i believe that that finding was roads are a but isn't it a public record it is it is a public record but it is not a simple public record when you encounter a former fiance that doesn't dad i don't know trigger some obligation to step back and say well let's be sure we did serve the right and i think that is the case and in fact then there's another hurdle that you would need to overcome you aware of the case to file which versus o'bryant you know which says that the appellant has the burden to present a sufficiently complete record of the proceedings a trial to support a claim of error and in the absence of such record on appeal will be presumed that the order entered by the trial court was in conformity with the law and to keep that in mind but beyond that is that your position venture obligation was essentially just to determine what title search that the response i was living there i mean there is any there's any source anywhere by which the backfire could have ascertained and also dressed earlier in your argument you alluded to the factor acknowledge the fact that i think that somebody informed the so i mean there's a lot of things going on here that you're not faced with in the normal situation so the question is whether under the totality of the circumstances there was a lack of diligent inquiry which the trial judge did find again right and that's what you're apparently there are some references in the briefs to actual transcript pages and we're kind of curious how that might have happened civil process but it says upon diligent in crete and effort cannot be found or served with notice in the county as provided in the section  her deposition this news testified that she was residing with her sister into page county not in kane county and she could not recall the address of her sister's residence and so you know much that could be correct had she resided somewhere else and came county but as we sit here right now i salute you both know where she resigned it and i'm the only information that i have is from her and she testified that she presided with her sister in du page county in which case we couldn't even have sent the sheriff out there soon for because she didn't reside in the county ok you also indicated that your obligation to search for the tax buyers abnegation to search relates to the filing of the petition for the tax steed and that the critical point is that correct that's that's one of the information  right but if you received additional information and you did in this case from the ex husband who actually might have been the ex fiance who might only have been the father of the ok and one last issue it seems to be stated rather positively that the trial judge says trial judge had said you have to review all records that you can find including criminal records even though the fact that he said in this circumstance in kane county where these records are housed generally in the same location because they this clerk's office as is outside of courthouses i believe that you can get this information without a great deal of trouble he considered that to be something that should have been done under that what he actually database has to be searched in order to ascertain interested parties and what and what exactly is wrong with that well again i'm going going back to what department of revenue have it's pretty anyone with with an interest in this real estate is entire worlds to take notice informing them that the property taxes and when and that they can retain their interest by redeeming and that's the purpose of ordering up ordering title searches and judgment searches ok and but if you don't get it to the right person the owner the internal revenue that would be an entity but you don't get it in the right place you're not going to give them an adequate ability to redeem are you if you owe all the cats fire could do is make a diligent inquiry and i think that's that's exactly the crux of the issue here is whether the attacks were already taxed fire was not father who are both residing in her property they said certified mail directed to her which somebody science are to find and i just don't know how far or agree with you but once you're told that don't you have some obligation to keep looking no i think that that that question is actually covered by the or vs travelers case which i  public records and spends not stop your diligent search there's got to be of a point in time after which the backfire doesn't have to do anything else that the we've already ascertain record she had been kicked out of the house mr pyrex making a point maybe fifty six different times that there was a cut off time she was removed from the house maybe seven or eight months before the petition for the tax getting back to the service on the father i don't see how we can argue a substitute service abodes service she wasn't living there so i'll get a bigger boat service number one number two when the fiance receives the paperwork and forms the sheriff and the sheriff actually filed an affidavit that you no longer live there that is a human got a red flag now all the cases that i've cited in our brief indicate that you've got to do a diligent search of the diligent search certainly includes it in and that's for one of the cases talks about a probate search in other words the records of the count somebody would have just clicked on the can county clerk's office and in two seconds put in her name her name comes up and it refers to the criminal proceedings she appeared in those criminal proceedings through an attorney throughout the years period of time his name and address and telephone number and so forth were indicated i'm not indicating that he should have been served but a certain phone call to him that this is  address or telephone number and so on and so forth there was no attempt to contact her but i know that as a judge points out she was in court seven times before the tax proceeding was  gain and she could have been personally served many many many times or she could have been contacted through her sister who's address was shown in the criminal proceedings and also her attorney certainly a subsequent tax buyer or loon holder they have to be brought into the case the subsequent tax tire was everybody knew about him he was of all they had to do a search directed in fact mr burke attach but i'm appealing that particular issue and i think we've got an excellent appeal on that and last not least this is a minor point but nevertheless we know there's supposed to be absolute strict components with all of the text no half later but well after the tactician so she was out of the premises for that period of time and the depositions revealed that mr parrish took you know my party for the depositions and they all testified in the sense saying that she had been removed by the criminal court yes ok and then my other question was that at any time was the court the trial judge approached with a bystander's record no i don't think there was any reason council is opposing counsel says that you know once the tax petition for tax status filed the obligation to search for the people interested has ended while what about this new information that they received even if they didn't look into the criminal records that she doesn't live here anymore what should they have done with that you're asking myself standoff yes well she was and you know she was in the court record of the criminal proceedings as attached by the court in the case that she was in court personally everyone has to be a diligent inquiry as i do not think that the work there don't worry by the sort of saying well we didn't really have to go through that because she was living with her sister outside the county and the statute says if we can't find her in the county we could have found her seventeen different times in the county according to the court records it's in the news will be before this court and such and such a time will be before this court and such and such a time she had seventeen at least seventeen different court appearances i had another question now oh how many yet mr duff how many times after the petition for tax deeds was filed did she have court appearances i had to have that i'd say eight to sauls say that they did feed tax by or it was obligated to look at the criminal records or did he just the bills were other things that could be considered but he did write he did in fact say that they were obligated to do that and mr beer accept well that really isn't just related to cane county he was talking about all other counties wasn't he just talking about king county where these records are generally housed within the same platform the judge or a specific we're talking about the platform of king county right ok and that's where the that's where the house says that's where the criminal  and that's where she appeared in terms of your cross appeal the postage the twenty dollars or whatever the amount is i'm not saying twenty dollars is insignificant but assuming that it was not properly listed doesn't that mean the taxpayer's going to have to you know they're going to have to eat it and they can't say you haven't given us a proper redemption amount repeat them up to clear all right you said that there were certain there was a certain amount twenty dollars that was not included in that notice that redemption notice for this group is not included can the tax buyer say no we're not going to take this amount was five thousand and twenty dollars and i only tendered five thousand dollars the tax buyer couldn't say oh wait wait now it's five thousand and twenty dollars because there's twenty dollars postage i'm not going to accept that they couldn't do on the dated tax it notice itself the statutory language that's required to be in the notice states that this amount is subject to change the reason cats fire centered says you can't rely on this now because you have to get a national estimate of redemption from the county clerk's office in order to get the proper amount and that then amount is covered and really here it's the having received the initial notice the accurate figure would have from been provided to her it would have been updated by the county clerk's office one of the other grants he talked about leave holders the required even mr in mr out of dust argument he talked about the requirement of doing a probate search a probate searched is exactly the type of just said that they couldn't we could have looked at the criminal database the criminal case and seeing that this man is was required to be in court on certain days now this type of imposition on the part of the past fire is exactly the reason that or versus travellers will give way that they did it there's only so much that attacks fire to do to inform people that their taxes have been sold as if they didn't know already that their taxes the been the whole argument panix burdensome to mr barrack client to do all this terrible stuff like go to came county and search her name it just seems ludicrous to me  getting back to the st getting back to the beginning of the argument here about the boat services know about services she doesn't live there number one number two they were notified red flag notified that she doesn't live there anymore day and age and i think that case was twenty years ago certainly in this day and age to have an internet search and internet search which certainly encompass a cane county records where the property they have to do is go to change county circuit pursue purchases and defense on multiple cases on an annual basis myself ok so if you just have one case it may not be a burden but what if this is kind of your business and you do this this is how this is how your practice is structured would you have to do this on every case that you had go into the database of the particular i thank you counsel for your participation this morning we will make this matter under di's minute and we will issue a decision in due course we will now stand adjourned for today and save travel for every you're going thank you thank you