or deference to the board your honor they are the experts were arguing that in this situation that they didn't properly fire finding a generic this about my problem is with the reference to competitor use of of the the mark in the concept so what what are we supposed to do with that it's really just an absence of proof isn't well jarod's it's well known even in the definitions that more known for suits and suits and tweed suits not for shirts and sweaters there's no genius between the term cleaves in shirts and sweaters they were strokes and sweaters were made out of insert we'd like africa right there isn't evidence of some but a lot of the evidence is based on non us findings so in that doesn't necessarily mean that there are that people of the general public was going to sociate tweeds with shirts and sweaters your honor i mean i don't disagree that usually sweaters are made of tweet you know unless you live in a crazy cold environment like you know some of the european in the record just examined and find that the likes of we don't think that associates a genius or or excludes a finding of twenty three more generic term or mark bursa i mean more of a descriptive term or mot and not generically skip pretty widely known as by the public there may be a specific example here and there but those are limited to the rest of your time for a bottle yes your honor i appreciate you that showed use by competitors of tweets shirts and tweets sweaters as the kind of thing that was being offered on their websites but none of them would just say tweets they always have sure a sweater attached as if they weren't rich and eric right the the riddick cherry definitions from mary went webster in the oxford dictionary as well that show that the plural tweeds is defined by the public as clothes made out of tweed fabric and these are just a subset of clothes made out of tweed fabric and these websites show that in fact the word tweet has the same meaning when referring to sweaters and shirts but you can see that they use a twee yes based on what's in this record it appears they do that there are tweets written tweet sweaters offered to the public that's really the only evidence of that in this record is what with the examining attorney put in there was no counter vailing evidence there was in fact a mark that was granted for this that that existed for a long time right yes and and do you put any weight on the fact that that the requirements of the court to a case basically takes care of the entire argument that you call it as making about any effect that the prior registration would help but it would have some registration with respect to that question  if it had secondary meeting with respect to second emmy potentially it would yes but there is no question of secondary meaning in this particular case because a the only issue is generic miss and b the amended to try to seek based on the applicant's usage in the marketplace is necessary really an issue i don't argue we actually moved the requests to supplement a register based on the request  sorry i don't know i get that i would like to say that it's an honor to argue before this court the opposing counsel has been very professional i stand only professional your clerks court's office is fantastic this is my first experience here so i do appreciate that i do assett you fine that's the first ruling on examiner that it was descriptive of tracked based on long term usage