have any requests for just a moment please we have none no requests in the chambers will go to hot office is there anyone wishing to provide testimony but now you office is for an end is anyone wishing to provide testimony do we have connections get back to work this is the budget in france committee we should take testimony you have three minutes to give your testimony as presented on the agenda you do not have one minute to conclude as posted by the  after work to get it done on time and and the benefit was everybody did their homework everybody came in p paired and the last day we meet and you know as a person first time did something like on point of the scoring and the grading system that was given to us and if you take a look at the grading system the grading points of the top ones the pumper f take my hats off and i hope the support this it wasn't done or intended to do anything but to serve the people needed and all twelve grants that we had were people that needed is just that we came up with  connected to a communication fifteen to us one eighty one from the office of c b g they have for us a proposed resolution that is recommending of one point seven one one five one one million dollars and we have mr pontin noah joining us this morning to give us comments as well as so yeah she anus a i she who is very familiar with the c b g program yes miss corella chair thank you i'd like to disclose that i was asked to serve  was refreshing and appreciated you know for the chair i would see my experience was see that i could make a call but i whatever recommendations is coming forth came as a package and that is an individual project by project choice making that assumption members save you have an issue with my ruling you be these are we are going to continue to move manager since june eighth twenty fifteen you know it's different sitting on this side rather than on that side so please bear with me disappointing the city b g program is a flexible program that provides communities with resources to address a wide range of unique community development needs the city b g program is one of the longest continuously run programs at the united state department of housing and urban development while county has participated in the program since its inception in one nine hundred seventy four the purpose of the program is to develop viable communities by providing this in housing is suitable living environment and opportunities to expand economic opportunities principle leave for low and moderate income persons with the filing of the first resolution and the red rejection and disapproval of our second cd b g resolution the cd b g program office commence with its second thirty day or been competitive application request requirements as required by hired which stipulates only one public notice to be published in a newspaper of general circulation we also held public hearing meetings on the n as in honda and of course here in why look who we believe that this effort made a significant positive impact on the number and quality of applications received a second r p is evident by our years the recommended projects received acted via an open competitive application process and panel evaluation followed by the approval by the mare the five member evaluation and selection panel utilized for the second r p process included i have diverse group of individuals with various backgrounds and acts expertise that represented our county well they include joyce call services the open application process is that the structured grading mythology utilizing the pre evaluation success factors and scoring parameters for each application question combined with the independent evaluation five member panel established an equitable objective and credible approach for selection of projects given our stringent and comprehensive evaluation and selection system we cannot and are not able to arbitrarily select a type of project over another the funding proposal presented in this city b g resolution for your consideration and approval is based on an objective and for which i must receive our application to secure our c d b g funding is august the fifteenth two thousand and fifteen with your approval we hope to file the county's application for program year allocation for program year two thousand and fifteen thank you christians at the same twenty sixth where it expresses i think adds mr white's concerns but i'm sure it's the council's concerns because we've discussed it on the floor before about the selection process  i just find it and we and we talked about this before i find it interesting how the process went where the money needed for a homeless resource cent potentially mental health or a few other things  a fire truck took precedence over that and i know that the council's has asked the c d g department to redo its soil action criteria to put you know community service things over county quitman if at all possible has that happened since then i know you can it was really difficult for this one because you're right in the middle  improve the program as you know i'm you know i just started on june eighth and since june eighth i've been meeting with some of the nonprofit organizations the ones that have grants from  us from previous years and one of the things that we always talk about and you hear it is a time in this of spend down of the funds that we give the nonprofits and you know it's alarming when we find that some of the non profits are having a difficult time in just starting up their projects so i mean the presently reviewing the project with the grantees to ensure it at the spend on is done in done in a timely  manner you know in in may we were we didn't meet our ratio of one point five we were at one point six so it's going to be a challenge receive the one point seven and looking at the spend down from twenty four thousand because we need to spend quite a bit more than one point seven it's going to be a challenge but i'm willing  to talk with the chairman white you know ever got sort of a letter that was sent to me on june the twenty six and i are going to be awaiting from his office for that meeting ok thank you thank you dear thank you concern is there something within the notification process that you will be i just seen because i've best part of the issue of the notification to the applicants that qualify when they can start their project or start the spend down clark is that is that a concern for us as far as starting the project yes we need to respond to them with bend over there ask questions in regards to the program and when to start their project but i think you know meeting with the people that we grant monies through on a on a regular basis is you know keeping all face in their face and i'm sure you here i just quickly went through the letter that was handed out to all of us that you're speaking of to mr pantano lawyer and hopefully to discuss more with council chairman and i here it really breaks it down nicely the i guess the selection committee it's community representatives wanted more community committee what was it before compared to what it is today what was before i think was three member panel i'm sorry it was always five and we kept it at five and we added an alternate ok i mean i guess the background of the people have changed is that what was meant by adding more community type representatives thousand and four calls for a five member panel and with one alternate and it is at the discretion of the city b g manager how that panel is put together and then the panel recommends the panel members that are recommended by the manager is an approved by the mayor in the past in the past this panel has been comprised of members of the house and human concerns department primarily as well as other department personnel that me be that are relevant to the process for example it might include the planning director at the deputy it might include the finance director has his or her deputy and other departments that participate in the community development in some way and our whole intent behind that is to create a panel that has a diverse background that can complement each other in the selection or evaluation of the projects  also try to include at least one member of the community and i'm i'm going over a period of twelve years and early on also invite the council recent panels have been primarily  administration but we in this most recent panel taking into account the expressed concern of the council we selected the majority of being public members with only one one civil service employee from the housing and human concerns department thank you ok thank you and your choice to choose a council member was that the first time you had put a council member per say on this selection committee and how did you go about i guess is housing human concerns chair it would probably be the main reason i'm it was really the decision and i i'm speaking you know let me just say this in the early implementation we've and this is when i was program manager back in two thousand and three to two thousand and six we always invited the council and so i can speak to that directly in terms of years or terms after that  i'm sorry i really don't feel comfortable answering that and i'll turn this over to the council to the current manager to explain the current process i  but i did make that decision ok well thank you for that mr ponting the law and chair i don't have any further questions but i wasn't sure if you're going to see we'll start another round thank you misplaced thank you very much chair and thank you mr pontin the law and as for being here this morning i'm sorry we didn't have the opportunity to get together you know i had read your packet very carefully and had it all tab so  could discuss this with you but we didn't have that chance but i do have just a few comments i want to share one is that you know i've been involved with city b g for a long long time not since i got on  but in my previous work and i lived through that transition of city b g from brick and mortar community development projects to seeing most of the money being spent on county quitman and i've always wondered about it because my my understanding was just that city b g original idea was to eliminate slum and blight and you do that of course by going into the income neighborhoods and trying to promote projects to help better g and i was interested in the priorities that they have adopted and that they want us to do in the future and it was really interesting to see how close those priorities are to our community priorities you know they're talking about surface transportation which i know are our committee chair at that and president that's a big interest for him in a big thrust drinking water which is so aligned with what our community needs sewage and storm water management which we spent hours and hours talking about here in trying to deal with and land side parts and social infrastructure so i like these new priorities i think they really align with what our community needs but i understand in reality that our new manager just you know you just acquired this a few weeks ago and it will take time to go through a transition and change change the way we do things look at it if need be and try and reorganize and you know things take time to change takes time and it's always painful but for today i understand what is before us and  excited that the at least we had the opportunity to have a consummate on the selection committee i think that's a real plus i think that should be continued and i noticed in the material that i mentioned earlier that's talked about that you want to try start from the beginning together maybe that end products will come faster and better so i'm all for that but i am disappointed and my disappointment is i wanted to see some money to go to  the housing for seniors i thought that should have had a higher priority you know we have such a critical critical housing need in this community that we really got to step forward and try to support that in every way we can and of course i was kind of also freaked out because we have a situation in here with as best as in a senior project and we've got to get it out so that that's my only concern but i can support was before us because i realize th time constraints we have here and all the circumstances that got together in order to bring us to where we are but i think we can do a lot better going forward and i have every confidence that  you i have a couple of questions but i also like to comment on the process regardless of my participation on the selection panel  applications city b g processes and our island also had the opportunity several years back to have the head of what visit us and give us explicitly the kind of opportunities that are before us and it did include public safety facilities slash quitman needless to say housing needless to say health facilities which our community have taken advantage of as for as well as meeting the needs of the caput but he also realized too that your application is how you're judged and what's in that application is what it takes and it's done intensive to process the cd application this  it's like you need an army of experts to get it through and i guess perhaps some of the applications were not able to meet all of its required process that we were not perhaps maybe some did not score as high as we would have hoped to i'd like to also say that the  for the applications i think we were having a crash course to get it through but the end result is five members plus the alternative  member came up with the end result may not be pleasing to all but i will need to add it as a process which i think we all value because it includes community whether i wear a consummate hat or i'll do you have or a carpenter's union hat we are part of our community and our county so qualify there is the community priority plan again it's a community process they have the rich and it come to the conclusion what is it community notes as their priority no question housing no question building on the top for our public safety equipment and serving the whether it's a fire the police or ambulances and now if this is not except that because this is a new competitive application process can you tell me what kind of consequence we have as far as the can get this application to hard by august seventh we don't want to take the chance of you know something going wrong a between seven and fifteen so the drop date date is august receive their one point seven million dollars and possibly some penalties that we need to pay for the current year program and also you know joe this process because i think more and more of the concerned on our chair as well as maybe some other members of the council when it states council's view is that the intent of the c d g program is to favor community development projects over equipment purchases by county departments i would like to i know you you know we have the understanding but if we went we're going to this process good c d b g s your previous program manager or whomever could you have i don't know if i want to use that word meant manipulate but could you have manipulated the priorities so that it would just come out that it will be community development projects  plan to satisfy the information that we get through the content and it's an open process we advertise in a newspaper and one of the interesting part is that when we do very interesting when you want to take a look at the ranking you know it's my phone so if i can have staff with someone oh it's in your packet but i do have some information over here read reader's kori summary sheets regarding twelve projects see mr white you have any questions at this time not on the sheet thank you thank you chandler director office of community planning and development i'm assuming this is for region nine which hawaii is part of the fragile region nine in it mr chandler states in his first paragraph as a result all originally selected projects would no longer be eligible to apply for the twenty fifteen c d p fines because it would be viewed as a manipulation of the selection process creating an unfair funding process if the originally selected projects to are to apply and be selected again in the same program here so stating that really although we've always offered that the council it's it's the councils provocative and with full authority to reject the r f p and it's always been factored into this process since it was first implemented we have never gone down this path that's not saying that it was not allowed it was always allowed so at the time that it was first rejected and then the first our first resolution was rejected and also the second we've been with we've been in discussion with hud and especially particularly with mr chandler since february and throughout this whole process we've been engaged in dialogue with him and his advisement is was that in this third resolution although the applicants might be the same as long as the especially in the annual budget review versus county departments we are chartered to respond to corps departments that's part of our responsibility as to it hope that the nonprofit community would utilize these as their first choice of looking at funding and then the county a second a look at our departments is coming to the council first before they go outside and i will remember who has come before us at this time in one month when we we reviewed a budget so seeing that concerns here it's not so much a project it's a it's a question for mr pond to know that he mentioned something which in his and response back to me about having a hard time spending down even last years is that anybody on this list stories that where you having a problem spending down last year's list of some of the  previous statement early on in regards to meeting with each of the grantees was you know i specifically to get from them commitments under spend on hopefully by the end of the year things are within the bit proposal for the equipment well you know being here today you know i haven't had the opportunity to go molokai or even talk with the chief he regards to  and i we both went off road fire truck we had fallen to the fire department and we ran that truck for twenty something years trucks that he's experienced the uses that was gotten out of that so this particular truck in the letter from mr chair white says it's nine years old or twenty seven thousand nine hundred miles yes ok and so this is a pumper truck yes and this truck in the end we had just a perforated monies for coal and that was a big difference two different apparatuses type yes and and size and keep ability ok and you know very supportive of public and fire safety and you think you hartman and what have you it's just i would have preferred it to go through the budget and thereby alleviate this type of a dollar amount for other items that are on this list of applicants personally speaking for myself and just wondered why you folks had chosen to go this route well thank you for that question i would prefer the budget process myself  we have historically always apply through c p g and other grant processes for equipment and training and other things historically we have gone through c d g many occasions we have been the alternatives and about halfway through the grant process they have allowed us to purchase a vehicle because of the shortfalls in the process or the spending of other entities so we've come in and taken care of that for them  you know it was asked many years ago that we go through a process of trying for other means and c d g has historically been there for us and we haven't always had success but we've always applied because it is part of our responsibility to spread all those requests and as you know this process only covers a few communities and it fit fit the session you request at the this have you any comments you want to share on any of the projects either the primary or alternate projects that are before the committee this afternoon any you want to share any thoughts on any project thank you chair i  came this morning primarily to let the committee know that the community health center received a five hundred thousand dollar grant through our  department of human concerns grant process they have spent down all of that five hundred thousand dollars and primarily it was used for infrastructure and planning purposes  thoughts i wanted to use this opportunity of the committee to recognize and thank director reed for her unselfish service to the county of ma its residen but on behalf of our committee her man our branch of government we thank you for you and so for his service to the people and we will learn your retirement and we hope you make yourself available for specific projects of ma'am yes yes thank you again for years of service you know as i mentioned earlier a target date hopefully is to send the application to on august seventh understand that there is a council meeting in july and we think your consideration  you chair and i won't be supporting this measure and it's it's mostly because of my concerns partly in the you you touched on that the departments have direct access to the council during budget times and i realize that the department doesn't always get what they ask for but i've also given them quite a number of pieces of equi t my biggest concern is and this is the cd b g process in my view has been broken and i think with what agnes and joe have put together we're on the road to recovery and i'm very pleased with the direction that we're heading i'm very appreciative of the new committee make up because it's gone from all people being involved with it ministration to being members of the community and many that we we trust and many many ways and i think that's a wonderful change and it's one that i think the rest of the council  felt was appropriate because as it's been stated in this process is supposed to be and upwelling of of support from the community not from the council and not from the administration so i appreciate the changes and the direction that we're heading but my biggest challenge is that we need to change the the criteria that we're using to come to results and that in my view are to some degree misguided because they give weight to financial stability well the county's very stable because we have all the money we have everybody's money the various entities that we are trying to take care of whether it be the or a wide variety of others that are are shown on this list of applicants are asking for our assistance because they're not in the kind of shape that they can afford to do these projects without  assistance so the reason that we turned this item down and the first time around was that when we approved it last year we did so with i think pretty strong strong words to the director at the time that there's too high a percentage of equipment it's presented to us too late for us to make any changes or for them to make any changes if we turned it down so i think we also discussed the makeup of the selection committee so we've got the selection committee changed i think it's and i like the makeup of it  the reason that we brought up the equipment percentage was that in the two thousand and thirteen we were at thirty seven percent the average of the other three counties in hawaii were at nine point six percent in two thousand and fourteen their percentage of the equipment funded through c t b g dropped to seven point three at the same time ours went up to forty five so we're going in the opposite direction of the other counties so i don't know what their their proposals are in the other counties this year but in the if they've gone from nine point six to seven point three i don't know whether they're going to drop to five percent or what that percentage is going to be but we've gone from thirty seven percent to forty five percent and now sixty four percent for equipment and i have a whether it's the police it's request in this or public works or fire doesn't matter to me my concern is that we have a lot of organizations out there that absolutely need our help and this is a very appropriate way for them to apply so the more we look at just funding equipment the less we're taking care of those entities and to my feeling the less we need administration the cd b j office because if all you're doing is buying equipment  the majority of your funding it doesn't require any follow up doesn't require the time it takes to follow projects through the planning the design the construction and occupancy  other applicants are having to deal with and part of the spend down problem i think that the other agencies are are having a challenge with is because they've got to go through the county for their building permits they've got to go through the county for planning  got to go through us and we don't have a fast process for them so we're part of the spend down problem so there are a number of moving pieces here that need to be addressed i have  i have confidence in john agnes to pull it together but i still feel that the product we ended up with this time is just wrong headed these this nine hundred thousand dollars it i feel should have gone to some of the other agencies and i have no problem supporting a certain percentage of quitman but sixty four percent of the amount that's been allocated for me is just too high so i know that everyone i'm sure this measures got enough support to pass but i i don't feel that i can support it on at this time thank you so we can continue this and do what the chair would prefer the chair is going to recommend that he's open to emotion send to counsel a recommendation application with the department of housing and urban development united states of america and to the community development block grant program this is what is attached attached your june second two thousand and fifteen communication members i am not filing communications the chair is going to keep the subject open so we can nella in the future regarding adjustments on what can qualify for future consideration that's what i'm open to entity mr couch looking for the most and i do share chair white's frustrations as well i am concerned about potential penalties and you know we have a new person now running the the the thing he's he's been on this side he knows our concerns and i have faith in him that he will  the system so it works the way we were looking for it to work i just don't i don't see the sense in throwing a you know it's a message it would be a message that if we threw away that one point seven million but i'm also concerned about the penalties that potential penalties are there so while i am as frustrated as mr wait i'm just not quite as frustrated to to throw away one point seven million dollars thank you thank you and any other miss cochran thank you chair and i completely share the concerns of chairman white and really c d g for me as their reason for equipment to service the people but you know i added up the amounts the dollar amount here and we could have taken care of seven of these projects on this list you know it adds up to less than what the one pumper is capable of service enough to get all residents of the island in need of the fire service but you know the the small amount from the twenty person project to the eight person serve project they're so highly needed and as mr wade stated they have no where's to go our own county departments have us that's what we're here for and so i see a lot of these projects i mean line  old projects that are really put through a lot of families and asbestosis yeah it's an issue over there i know people firsthand have been sick by that and it's going to sit there now you know and hopefully home a whole can find some source somewhere but they're not getting that from us and i feel really hurt about that because that's what i'm here for we talk about seniors we talk about the needy we talk about the homeless yet all of these projects are going to assess that and now we're not going to put money towards it so i don't want to jeopardize the money from the feds in the c d g program i don't like all the process has occurred but again i see changes occurr so just wanted to share my thoughts thank you for thank you is placing me comments just a few brief words because unfortunately i have to leave but i think we need to vote on this and support it i would it would be awful to give up the money i totally understand the frustration but i think that we have a new crew here and i think they get the message loud and clear and we'll work with you thank you  from us which is almost here several times because it really helps to do more with or revenue to do the things that we need to do for people so even though we might object to some have windows up and improvements as far as the process however i will like i would like to stress that process as a community process have the expense of having a pump or to serve as water and personnel transporters for the rural area because you cannot turn on the water f the budget process where you know for whatever reason it's been a struggle for for quite some time for departments to end up with their equipment yes there definitely definitely we do need the resources financial resources to inoculate the nonprofits that we have there's there's no question about it  know yes if we eliminate at the pump or we probably could have served more but you also need to know that some of the applicants did not meet n my colleagues in assuring we'll just continue to improve but not to discourage not to discourage departments to apply because it's allowable unless hud and c t b g removes that opportunity or are possibility only then should not even consider applying it in my opinion thank you thank you mr wade in closing comment but i'll just i'll just close by mentioning again that you know housing is the first priority that was generated by the community and that's housing for seniors housing for homeless and and other types of housing as well the number two priority is health care facilities and health care operations and that can include equipment as well  e i believe the equipment for public safety purposes is the fourth priority so once again one when we see a result that is  placing sixty four percent of the monies on the fourth priority and and the top priority is basically left without any funding  it just tells me that we've got some some fixing to do so you know i respect the constraints of the process but i also hope that we can change the criteria so that the  priorities that are set by the community in this plan are actually going to be addressed and met not that the the money can be ok bye someone who's got financial resources so they qualify on that level they've got a great grant writer because really what it boils down to is you've got to have financial stability and you've got to have a great grant in order to get through this process and as we learned last year if you leave something out of a grant you don't qualify anymore you just you're taken out so you know i'm i'm concerned because this is not an easy process for nonprofits to deal with because they've got to do a lot of heavy lifting to compete with the department has got the resources to make all kinds of things happen so i think all of us were concerned the last couple of that we weren't getting many of the folks applying that we felt should apply i'm excited to see that you got thirteen this time around and i think that's a that's a great tribute to the work that  agnes and joe of have done so i'm and i hope it's clear that i'm not asking anyone to join me in voting no because i think this this should go forward and my vote is simply a protest that we've come up with the  junk result and i'm looking forward to moving forward thank you chair thank you now i think the committee has made their intent very clear that we and again members we will be back in budget in nine months so we remember very well forward to is regarding cornerstone environmental group c for professional services regarding the landfill gas collection well as going through maybe into july and august it is a gas collection control system and decommissioning in operations and maintenance at central maui so we determined that to be an operations project at the onset of this initially yes that was a multi year contract we took counsel's advice in concerns and that's why we've done  recertify cations and both of those one of them is completed one of them is in process now to be done before the end of f y fift for monitoring of the and it's hard to explain but it's basically you know because we have a close landfill we have these requirement to have the methane gas that's in that closed landfill be be dealt with if it doesn't if it's not dealt with then we can have you know catastrophic issues and so a requirement of that is to have contractors do evaluation monitoring and occasionally you know a need of expansion of that system and so the the majority of the contract was operational maintenance they did identify one i guess i think on a construction activity but the expansion of that landfill gas system in this control system improvement i mean a for us the norm of that kind of language is about capital yeah improvements of system the division or department just a minor clarification there we actually had initially planned on doing the actual construction activity in house marcel's well to use of a contractor that's i don't you guys do you know that's fine with me i'm trying to avoid that your department but like to other departments than say pete you purchase autos and we'll find out what it is using  appropriate but there it is standing in front of our faces so i want to avoid those kind of things because that is one of our responsibilities to hold the money accountable and it's interesting that we cannot defend the existence of structures of people taxpayers money and for this church that is unacceptable and will hold the administration accountable so gentlemen again if there is c a p components and it's a regret i'm happy to consider it and put it in the right place in the budget to give you already have standing adams on the committee agenda to eliminate couple of weeks of referral and posting requirements again i am seeing i am happy to work with you and get it in the right appropriate you may have for the resource people think thank you very much chair and thank you for bringing this contract forward just for us to get clarity on what you know you're asking and i guess i still haven't really heard from department i know we have to monitor the land fill gas and this is the whole flaring of the gas there at central landfill and so we have these contractors there  do the monetary and sort of i don't know compiling data or making sure it's you know working properly these are these outside contractors are physically on the ground here doing it yes that's correct it's not a daily task that they do but there's a quarterly reports an annual reports that have to be filed with the department of health ok and so in this this is strictly  so we don't have our county people the sistine are there to along with the monitoring we do assist as we can some of this stuff is highly technical nature so we assist as much we can with in house resources as well so part of it always getting approval from department of health on our operations and maintenance of that system as well as the decommissioning of the components of the gas collection system one that's necessary ok and so the idea of improvements and as mr to distinguish is this a c a p operations and so the project title is about improving the system and services and things of that nature so is that just for a number of the different entities that are involved in we're trying to work through that as well to make sure that that definition is understood in between council and administration in the departments as well so we're working on essentially though your question is what's going in or is it an expansion yaz the landfill grows there's additional gas collection that needs to be done so there's lines that need to be put underground that component of the construction isn't that technical it just requires some trenching in putting in of these lines so whether that c a p that actually increases what our infrastructure is valued and that's where we tend to see and not to a great extent it's more of a operations and maintenance kind of requirement we have to do so it's a gray area whether that's actually improving our or increasing the value of our infrastructure and that's where i think the definition of can be better defined as we've discussed with this with this body as project is this after a decision is made in then you make the call or this is done in concert prior to a decision regarding the capitalization in put it in the appropriate depreciation schedule i think you mr chairman we we the budget office and the permanent finance have been working on some disparities between the budgeting process and the  actual kaffir accounting and the differences in definitions and different things like that i've been working with the accounts division of the department of finance pretty long about we're coming up with you know  basically a manual that describes in detail what is a capital asset what is not a capital asset some examples what's capitalized generally you know anything over one thousand dollars capitalized than anything over five thousand dollars is depreciated but those what makes up those things that are capitalized it is kind of up determination based on you know is it you know like the divisions you've mentioned is a something that's going to be extending the useful life of if it's repair maintenance activity is it something that's going to be extending their useful life of that  beyond its normal useful life example you know is that if you have a useful life of a building and that useful life is forty years but the roof needs to be replaced after twenty years that roof  replacement even though it might be two hundred thousand dollars is actually repairs and maintenance not capital according to to the standards right according to the accounting standards but in i want to say our minds  in you know the the budget committees mines and council and in mine that's more of a capital project right because we're player replacing a roof you think that that's something related to  so even though it may be replacing the roof and saying you know ok we're going to get another twenty years out of that roof the building the original asset is still only has it's forty year useful life cycle and they have certain percentages if i s more than ten percent of the original cost then you know one of the criteria or if it extends the useful life more than twenty five percent and there's you know different different criteria there are strict standards as far as the accounting procedures but as far as the budgeting procedures that may be a different factor and so we're trying to get those two aligned and as we develop these policies and you know these standards then probably want to come back to this committee and provide a report on the work that we've been doing and how those can be integrated and a better understanding of you know what is included in the operations budget and what is included in the capital budget because that's you know a way for you guys are making terminations and decisions based on that understanding and then you know the departments to try to spend the money and finance says oh no that's an operational expense because  paint the building and you know first it was a capital that it was not a capital you know its operations and you know it went back and forth and so it's something that we definitely need to get a better handle of in a better understanding from both you know the administration side and from the council so that we can make sure we're speaking the same language and make sure that everything that needs to be capitalized is being capitalized and things that are budget appropriately can be spent by the department so you know it is an opportunity for us to learn and to have a better understanding and i want to work with you in this committee more on those kind of animals thank you and direct your bios management again member gentlemen similar to the previous contract is it was this is or is the chairs concern and especially on page two hund country for professional services if you have a number to time of performance under the last paragraph this country may be extended for three additional terms of twelve months each part of mutual agreement in writing and so i thought we had a general understanding during the budget  for f y fifteen it's pretty standard language to have the ability to extend but the concern that was brought before us and that we are addressing here is to make sure that the amount of money that's going to be expended in the fiscal other than that we've heard the message from this body and we're working it's going to take us a little time to try and get to that point but we're working on it we're looking at planned and how to get our thought of weeks engineers up to the same level as our wastewater engineers thank you and again  discussions the two before you to day we have done research of occasions and discovering funds from both of those the remaining amount of contracts as we estimated before council there were an edition about fifteen or so additional contracts some of those were very small and some of  those have been completely expended some of those though the plan remains to wait until the june invoices come from those contractors pay those which is usually in mid july or so we pay that last final june bills come through we pay those and then just income for the remaining if it's ok with you and i would appreciate it if the department could provide us with the details of what what was and cumbered and  final estimates before me right now other than the two larger contracts that we're talking about today the emir and cornerstone were still we're probably talking on the order of one hundred two i think the other question i have this one was again whether this was for the close landfills and whether get it c i pure operational expense that one of the things i notice these are under scope of work and tell you nothing other than go look somewhere else so they'll hear it comes to council as a pretty well and document that doesn't tell us much about what the actual work can my understanding is in we just directly reference the bid the r f p bid documents we don't actually attach the contracts would be extremely voluminous if you do want to request it i believe you can request it from finance holds the actual document with them so are those documents ever provided to the clerk's office or the bid of the original of the chosen contractor or that goes with the contractor ever ends up in the clerk's office and i believe i'm sorry looking up there i believe it is held with finance or with the department of foreign probably as a copy also thank you thank you thank you in the response to mr to rights questions for the community gentlemen we have this country but in the new shared actually if i might add one of the discussion topics that we've had with the vision the permanent finances that maybe that should not be maybe that should have been appropriated in operations because it's not extending the useful life of the it is actually going to be i don't want to say construction paper activity it's going to be activity on the clothes landfill doing things that are needed that are identified in those those  reports that are being provided to the bartman of health on how we need to make sure that the close landfill doesn't create health problems so you know it again in my mind i see that is as a construction project as a cia but in in accounting standards it's more of a operations and maintenance expenditure so that's i mean we may end up coming back to council with once we finalize the definitions and work with you guys on the policy of capitalization and not capitalization and what goes into the capital budget program and what goes into the operational budget because those those those are different you know whether it's appropriated in in the capital program or were this appropriate in operations budget there are things in operations but that they could capitalized and that's you know something  way the biggest you know criteria the biggest issue that we have would be if the money is borrowed if we do borrow the money if we do issue bonds for it it has to be to extend th useful life of that project it has to be actual according to the accounting definition of capital improvement standards so tense your question is specifically about these closed landfill projects that we presented in f y sixteen budget that was approved  you know those are those could be considered operations and maintenance but we've budgeted for them in a capital program this point you work with behalf so we'll work with you on that thank