recommends approval with the traditional estate in my room who are basically that the outdoor seating area show matching compliment to the building to the left of the on the screen yeah and before we're going to take about sixty percent of that and now it's just the parking space there we're going to have some trucks put in there on the side to kind of complement that this space there here on the building and there's not enough room on there for all our units the other chance of taking up that space but this is something that has to be next year obviously because you know it's a fan that needs to get you know the run on  there and if we can put it on like the side of building that it's something that can you know leak sometimes if it sideways which isn't a pretty sight so this is really the only option that it seemed like that we had to put it on this roof here in this just to put it right there up against the demise i'm on the back side so it's in from you and that's that's our space there obviously so it's you know keeping it on our side building the the circle drive side is a drive through pharmacy the loading space and in the dumpster or located in the rear there is a two aisle parking area th us and then to the south is the fifty home gas station and the car wash behind that the apple and is meeting the ceiling operations and one we've agreed to a variety of different conditions that the staff has indicated in my going to go through all of them i think one of the key components that grant did indicate was with respect to the car wash and maintenance  actually function with how the car wash would operates up but we've agreed to do sound measurements to determine ambient noise levels as well as the trim and when it runs to ensure that we're complying with that and we're going to put in a masonry location and so but we you know we intend to comply with visions of the ordinance and we've agreed to have a sound engineer measure sound i'm going to ensure compliance and me vent that there is an issue there who actually mitigate the issue  actually more we met with the fire department that is actually their preferred means of entrance into the site making that left in it so we'll be analyzed all you're carwash operation actually you enter in parallel to the property line limited grocery element that's so you'll be able to buy bread bread milk eggs some frozen foods so you can do a quick trip you know actually have a full deli not the traffic signal design and the roadway improvement plans which we intend to have submitted the end of this month back to the two to peter's township it's likely council has to approve the traffic signal plan my name's john knapp i live it one one two camper drive our property covers the two lots that the middle section directly behind this property i have a number of questions for clarification's i'd like to get on some of the details of the plan i think you commissioners have seen the comments that we have previously made on a pulmonary view of the of the plan and i will say you know we do think this is a better plan than the previous plans and a challenge but we still have some comments and concerns let me get some past some questions and clarifications that chinese can maybe help us with like a better description of the six foot vinyl fence that separates the property from the neighborhood and an explanation better of why ending at the carwash is sufficient instead of going across the entire property so he was ok so we'd like to know what is that vinyl sense what does it look like i'll state again we much prefer a solid wallet but even if it's not required it would make a much better separation the the retail building we haven't seen any description of what the roof of the building looks like whether there's then elation air conditioning and other equipment up there and what the noise and appearance issues that will cause we do look down on the old ford dealer and it's not pretty but it's just a plain roof you know not anything that's terribly ugly and we've lived with it for a long time we've been residents for approximate thirty years think there was some comments made on the car wash that the door and i like explanation on whether the blowers will be actually shut off when the exit door opens i understand from what grant said tonight they're going to put up a wall there as you exit but i would point out that if you look at this plan the ground slopes from high on the south down to the level at the very right hand the into the neighborhood so having door shut whenever those blowers are operating to us is a very important aspect and we would ask that we make sure that the doors are shut and the blowers shut off before the door allow the vehicle to exit opens  tonight you showed a picture of the back of the building with a and i'd like of would like to get a better description of the screening of the loading area i had understood when we had talked with the planning  zerkin grant that there'd be a wall there now it sounds like vinyl screening what is that and why is that not a solid wall to to when the trucks are down there on loading making noise and everything again common on the sands you know the comment was made by the giant eagle represented that over on this south and of the property to the left of the car wash it steep it's not that steep that date you can easily move up through into those woods so having a fence that goes all the way across the property to the neighborhood is is a major concern in one of the pictures shown tonight on the pictures of the building if i could just show you on this question about the can will be coming right up that the neighborhood appreciate the hours of for the car wash question then is you there is a question asked by one commissioners about the vacuums  vacuums restricted to the same hours as the car wash because at night even though they're up by the road you know the vacuum is make a lotta ugly noise when you're trying to sleep seen the action and things that happen around this facility i think this i think there's two hundred foot runway is a poor idea because planning commission force but after i'd like to see there's no reason the buses can't circle around road facilities night i'm not here to fight it but i welcome and i think it's a they did a  us my name is kevin asman and one one six kimber dr i am directly behind the car wash as it sits now now the plan itself doesn't necessarily show just how tight it is against the backfill side of mind now it's reasonably pretty fairly wooded and pretty steep but i haven't looked at it over the years a lot of that hillside has washed down under the ford dealership to pavement and we had some concerns when they do go to the cleanup and fix it if they're going to be some sort of retention or are a regrading of that so that the hillside doesn't continue to fall  our i understand about the bus stop that is going to need to be moved and other thing that we had concerns of is traffic through our neighborhood just as a point of getting on the record with the  if it becomes a problem with input we want to put the speed humps in somewhere along the line means it's already use of cut through the boys now the increased traffic especially at lunch and in the morning could  left to go up the boys road to make a left in another like rather than just come out of the exit take a left on circles and either go down and circle up the bell or corrupted kimber and you come out of i forget the name of the plan but if it comes out on voice rose above the bars call them on comes out on voice a lot of people view it as a cut through now i tend to reasonable if it's going to be more traffic our property in eliminating any potential problem at that turning lane on nineteen having lived in that neighborhood for thirty years that's the only exit to the township for that neighborhood otherwise you have to go up an exit in upper st clair so there's a lot of right turning going on out of that driveway and if you have cars using as he indicated probably using that first drive that first entrance more than the second entrance i could see a real potential for some  problems as it is right now with the lights there is that we sometimes wait seven minutes to get out of our neighborhood so it just gets clogged up it gets clogged up there and i just ask if you take another look and i don't know how you analyze that but prefer i see that that could be dangerous and dangerous spot and as we go out of it more than everyone is the people in neighborhood who are more danger now thanks whom i spoke with the property owner disaster which is next to huntington he's all for it i need the place and turning to him but i i think it would be something that for business owners there it would be beneficial for all of us if that were the case and then also you know like i said just for traffic flow in general you will possibly have you know four entrances that's going south and or we like the idea  my entire childhood in our resident there too for five years i would really like it if we could have a permanent signs placed in a corner that was that represents our neighborhood right sir from the most recent ones were made by backup i mean we prior to purchasing property we did a phase two environmental assessment of that and prior to purchasing we were comfortable with the existing environmental conditions on the property with respect to how the fueling station is going to be installed the components and all that that is all regulated by the commonwealth of pennsylvania and we're going to comply with all the requirements in that regard itself the property is owned correctly for that to say much more with respect to that other than you know we we comply with all the requirements that we are obligated to with respect to the township ordinances with respect to traffic analysis we've we're going to submit for the high occupancy permit in that regard we believe this actually is a better situation than having the site reconfigured as as indicated there with respect to kimber circle itself so the timing of the level service actually won't be degraded  crack of installing an eight foot high fence you do run into issues with wind loads and whatnot especially when it's solid as a barrier type fence and that would require parents we don't want to seek a variance for something that we're doing as an amenity that we're not required by to to do the sound studies and whatnot those elements at least they also restrict those up once as well so doing that analysis in tying into that all comes in a place that we're going to actually have measured sound to terminate ambient levels v compliance perspective just like glare and whatnot you automatically come back in force and again we tend to comply with that those provisions get left the sensor be continuous cars or maybe a car if there's an in there's no car there's a car behind it that blower will be on that's one of the reasons we've gone to modifying the condition to go through the attenuation to guarantee that we comply with the ordinance versus just the door often there are other equipment that's in there that may cause noise so it's not you know so what we're doing is complying with the code provisions to make sure that we meet that from the sun attenuation perspective that makes sense including sound dampening cants on the dryer blowers exit doors that will remain closed except one vehicles exit and a masonry wall extension did a flat sound and that design is going to be approved by a township  the applicant was so conduct a noise level study measuring the ambient noise level when the car wash is and is not in operation if noise generated during operation does not mean township regulations additional noise attenuation measure shall be required and so we're going to meet the ordinance requirements for that but we've added multiple provisions in there to see that in the event you have a situation where the second car through is going to be triggered on where the first cars leav have storm water management details and we're still working through that process cat taylor is the owner of this property it's actually two properties totaling thirty three point two seven  allowed to develop it at one point to last for a curse of the proposal before the town but this point is for forty lots forty large generates the need for open space there obligations two point eight acres the plenty planned shows three point four nine acres the lot so be half acre and larger they'll be paying traffic impact these the plan will comply with our new traffic calming regulations for as part of the woodlands development the township required that developer to put in barry and stud that street and extended the right away to the taylor property assuming at some point this property good developer that would be an inner connection the connection from the development whispering pines down to boyer road is requiring some township consideration in traffic engineering then boy row connex down here on the eastern end toward be about form the site distance down here is a lot better but the geometry of that connection from boyer to wetlands and preserve open space they're asking to use a thirty five foot building line mr van venture from partridge venture engineers will go into detail on that phasing also very important  w those are the key points so tonight is just an open discussion to hear from mr taylor's engineer as well as hear from residents at some point will for now correct the i guess it would be the western part of the property in northern part of the property on the other side of the properties of putting an existing farm and obviously in the southern side of the property about an existing try to propose a network of streets that would make it somewhat difficult for somebody to use it as a classroom or a speed race where in addition to that we've also proposed a horizontal curse that are tighter than normal o and i believe i don't want to speak for them but i think we had a pretty relatively good conversation and a productive conversation but i wanted to try to work it and this is a completely  know that we're trying to make our best effort to try on the other end of nowhere it's all right right out like well as you exit from the whispering pines plant we don't want traffic to be able to access the bow road residence for making a left turn movements out of there or even left turns in at that end of the hour he'd be about and boy or so we want to look at may be improving the that we've brought to them and i think they've already addressed several of them that did and i'm going we can deal with the rest of it  the proposed development of the property jason's the will and plan has raised some concerns and we don't wish to help the development but rather to have our voices heard the primary concerns of the safety of our neighborhood and maintain the character and perceived value of the type of development our community is and in doing that we have the following requests that we've brought to the township and to the developer we want our construction connection we want the traffic com to be addressed clear and direct adjacent about our hill school and daily traffic will probably not probably definitely will be increased through our plan once that connection is very made and we want the safety of our children to be taken into consideration there is there if one of our primary concern is the safety of our children the demarcation between the plans we hope to be defined with signage and  median or similar design which would also serve to contract as it comes in from the whispering pines to the woodlands we do have a common area on one side of that  i'm the connection but on the other side we are basically right and from what jim showed us tonight there's going to be mounting so that we do feel that there will be a division we just want to make sure that we do preserve the difference between the woodlands and whispering time the one marked and things like nineteenth we were asking for an increase because that house request equals but as we do that common area there it might be a moot point this time are the weapons as defined by our army what did common spaces you can see from and included in the design is primarily our concerns and they say we've met with it was a township and they seem to be i mean able to to working with us and we're very grateful for that and  know my name is william merrill one of five all night when i was on council one of the things that we had discussed especially as far setbacks was concerned a lot of the plans ted taylor had and things like this at that time a lot that would need a redo setback would be looked at individually especially on half acre lots i realize that this is in some areas rather steep and i especially appreciate the one eighteen seventeen sixteen there's lots of back there may not want to be real close to the woodlands and have some change and their set back but as a standard half acre lot in peter's time champ i don't really see that there's a requirement for a deviation throughout the entire plant you know there's a there's a requirement for a fifty foot setback and that was agreed upon it's not a woman's situation where a twenty five foot setback should be required not on every line so i really appreciate if you looked at that border we're looking at four hundred sixty here a t v vehicles a day coming through the town going through that may have access points but we'd like to also as well as our main access the want to drive access to butler hill township can request that because for all intensive purposes it is a direct connection to a state roadway ok now whether or three in the phase of war and sections of of the world's development so i think in going summary i think that we would request that tend not to at least get be about road carries a lot of traffic in any time that we can try to get avoid having another road connection to be bow creates less conflict creating another driveway in close proximity to where boyer connex out to be that creates problems as you know so anytime you can get an existing neighborhood to connect hope to be done we will be done reading the proposals by thursday and friday next next friday will be sitting down with michael us for and trying to side which ones which propos