prison and clear and convincing evidence with regard to the issue capacity first of all whether the state proved that is her vied in written information about alternative forms of treatment the second one was whether the doctor provide and convincing evidence about the lack of capacity in the third argument we present is whether the behavior satisfies any of the three criteria suffering threatening behavior or deterioration of ability to function and then earlier in the code section five one hundred twenty eight defines treatment as care treating and not psychotherapy so it really doesn't say if the states intrapreneur taishan is information about alternatives respond and that provides arm full information to the respond it so they know why actually the hospitals now provide information why can't one doesn't work or why medication would be the better one versus other forms of treatment and just to let you know we have a string of cases with this but now the state's attorneys at least where i practiced you offer this element as proof so they've collected there with regards to the issue  which i think is a very interesting one in this case because you know she was licensed doctor and practice so when the psychologist issues the issue of capacity she said oh dr m is not in touch with the issue of capacity specially the issue of basically the doctors they are clarifying that because she has to woo him she lacks capacity now delusions can be of course a factor in this i have clients who have delusion medication is the government's for using me medications are poor you know you know off the wall thing heard of lucian's were not in telling with regard to the medication it was her belief that she was a crime victim so you know shit of course she was israel has six factors i don't have time to go through this but she was there voluntarily we made that but she was aware that she had a choice she came over from a she she actually read about the side effects she understood about the side effects she gave a history of reactions that she had and she gave her perceived concerns about the side effects she didn't say about the benefits of the medication that was probably my fault but i didn't ask her about that but she was emphasizing to the court why she didn't want to take the medication several that she never talked to me about the side effects before and then i got her the doctor to clarify later on oh yes i said well in the petition you mentioned that that was that she mentioned to her the side effects and should oh i forgot about i think in this case it's the little bit differently usual i think the doctor had to provide i think the situation shift the burden about the passage to the respondent when it's really into state's burden to prove that they're spawn it lacks capacity in just saying that she has delusions which was her second part perfect because she doesn't believe she has delusions doesn't mean that she you know she lacks a capacity i think that stretches this issue a little far the other issue that we have is regarding whether her behavior satisfies the criteria for involuntary emission and that involuntary medication i apologize and as you well know under the illinois u s supreme court that she was harassing others and having delusions and i don't think if you look at the court cases of the precedent with deterioration of billy a function of harassing others and having to lucian's is really not sufficient it's not the level of where it should be for involuntary medication ones where it is like more harassing is when they came in participating in court where they're you know injected or they can't speak coherently you know she spoke rambling but you could understand what she was saying i think in also i mean we regret that she had a loss of her job status in the her overall status but that's not sufficient enough to do involuntary  her she was probably just be honest he didn't act with ethical staff but it was not the fact where she was hit anyone or the most egregious was she threw a book at one staff person but but that they received to be honest with ok with a certain behavior she had no tools to carry it out so it was a you know there's a good fourth district case is threatening behavior really threatening when that person has no means to carry it out there she's not going to get a knife not going to use in the hospital setting you know hopefully and so you know the thing is is that true threatening behavior when the separation i mean the practicality as well as the alternative to the proposed treatment it doesn't say that she shall advise the recipient in reading of the side effects with benefits of the treatment and alternatives to proposed t e so the doctor must advise the recipients of alternatives to the proposed treatment but unless that common means nothing then the alternatives don't have to be in wri whether the written information is for the proposed treat the proposed treatment or the alternative in any case in this particular case there were no proposed non there was medical forms of treatment had already been explored and attempted without any sign of improvement so there was no they they were considered as alternatives to the proposed treatment and in and write more age the court said that on medication treatment alternatives were appropriate for the respondents should written information also have included non medical forms of treatment well they want to procreate and that's in the record i think it is a sex trafficked medication nobody ever talked about being in it giving this woman xanax do they have to tell about the side effects of xanax no because it was not a proposed treatment the case says that he disc he discussed today he did not testify that he discussed with ever be or provided her with any written information regarding alternative medication so there was alternatives bobby f was responded own or prepare presented only with a written list of all the side effects and he received nothing about the risks benefits or alternatives nicholas for it has nothing to do with agreeing or disagreeing we've all dealt with our children and grandchildren when you say don't put your hand in a fire at the burn you and if the child refuses to listen and doesn't in any way that child can't be reasoned with it doesn't mean you disagree with whether or not the fire will burn you just can't reason with them i can reason with this court and you can agree with me or you can disagree with there's a big evidence about dr murray his alleged delusions which could satisfy the six israel factor that's on page twenty three of respondents opening brief but in her reply brief she came to stride and says that state didn't satisfy the sex israel factor and i don't think responding can have it both ways so i think what it really comes down to is we're only dealing with two israel factors on number two the person's ability to understand the available options and who had vanished and disadvantages and five if the person has received a similar treatment in the past where there's he or she can describe what happened as a result and how the effect could tell you all the facts the plan things everything that went wrong but she was literally reading from the pamphlet and she didn't mention one single thing about how they could help  i don't think that shows that she was of the able to understand the options an advantage is and this is just simply weaving i mean we all know the television commercials for any medication where they tell you the wonderful things that will happen if you take this medication and then they had a film that you can talk vaster than anybody i've ever met in my life to say it can process of this and if you just re involved in a crime this woman thinks every me and she meets has raped her rape is the most personal of crimes to a woman and to say that a woman who thinks that that man taking care of her and that man that's bringing her her meal and that male doctor i mean i'm not saying he had the actual facts of this case but just and it certainly was the order of this that she thought had raped her that woman suffering statute says alternative forms of treatment she would like the doctor to say well that was ok and slinging psychotherapy didn't work so you don't have to give the information to it that would actually water it down there but the doctor decide oh since counselling and psychotherapy didn't work we don't have to provide that written information there's a clear case to fleet up you were just the written information about non medical treatment options were not provided have physical manifestations it's physical or it could be emotional damage here this you know so here there's very little physical manifestations or physical health was fine so then we have to see whether her suffering affected her emotional health or emotional mental health and you know were games the area of her beliefs where she you are a person has a strong first amendment right to your beliefs and to your what you believe so here the state and on the state's witness did not do the nexus between why her police would cause emotional damage to work or danger to herself she i mean we conclude we can do a logical we that the eight wish would be harmful to her but here we're in voluntarily medicating someone for their beliefs and i think the state has to have that extra for clear danger to herself emotionally i know aren't being very complex and nuanced here but i think because she it's herbal it will be in the area what wings think constitute involuntary medication and i think we have to be very because suffering is so hard to figure out there's been no case precedent that affirms just on the issue of suffering alone and so it was richie featuring asian believe function or threatening behavior because i think you're going into the area of the person's it's very nebulous i've had clients who pry all the time and that's why i emphasize the physical because prior not eat because of their think that's obvious suffering but when you're getting into your belief system english i think the state which they failed to do here in may have existed but they failed to offer that nexus of why her beliefs caused her emotional damage thank you for your time i know this is a complex area especially on the issue