i'll call the case of frederick washington versus the national shipping company of saudi arabia secretary when there are now so that's very good right i resent frederick washington as a longshoreman down here in savannah he was badly hurt on the afternoon of august st two thousand and sixteen when i what's called a mafia trailer unhooked from a tractor trailer and went down four stories carrying sixty thousand dollars pounds and he has had three surgeries since then he has more than one hundred thousand dollars in medical bills and we're here to visit something that judge morton visited recently in the spring of this year which is a case involving a seaboard atlantic what's the duty of a ship here the saudi arabian national shipping company when it turns over its ship to be unloaded in this case it was foreign steel that was being i'm unloaded from the haul what's their duty when it's turned over it started way back in the early eighty's with the cynthia case and we've had lots of interpretations since then there are three duties that i think were breached here the st is a duty to turn over the equipment so that it's reasonably safe for an expert like a stevedore or a longshoreman to use safely the court came to the conclusion that this was reasonably safe stuff it was turned over this is despite the fact that it came on hooked and went down to four stories and is lucky five or six people are killed only at the last minute did somebody get on a fork lift and cut off the curb or i'm sorry the mafia trailer it or so we think there of the court was wrong in saying that the duty of turning over reasonably safe equipment was the nd thing that we're visiting here is the duty to warn the vessel or its shipping company of saudi arabia have a duty to warn the key document here which was turned over to us by  checked on each time that somebody is going to drive them off the trail or canceled don't you know of a more fundamental problem i understand that the district court ruled in one particular way with regard to the turnover claim because that of the of the problem that you're identifying the safety problem that you're identifying defeats the claim in here is i understand the evidence and this is where i am and i'm only speaking for myself i'm my question to you is what genuine issue of material fact was created in the evidence where mister manning testified that he knew immediately that there was no chain and in fact went to his stevedore supervisors to report it and that mister dotson also knew that there was no chain it was obvious to them because they had used equipment that had chains all the time what what what disputed evidence was there with regard to that evidence that was presented by the opposing side the safety hazard connex tractor to the trailer they were told that these trailers could come off when they're on a slope and that the driver each time through check to make sure that they're secure the hazard here is not only that they didn't have safety change the hazard here is that these mafia trailers have a propensity to on hook from the gooseneck manning and others who worked was that if there had been safety chains to the extent that it the mafia trailer did come off the tracks that it would have been prevented is it that becomes the testimony it is but i mean the the problem with the safety is that that's that's a guard here we they fail to pass on all these warnings here so i guess what we're saying is it's ok because this is a big deal i mean we live in  the nd fastest growing port in this country will double in size by two thousand and thirty that it's ok not to pass on any warnings that say that these mafia trailers can come on hand and you got to check the connection each time you drive this driver gets off of the my feet trailer each time he picks up a load each time he does it he's never told the safety warnings that they know about and the duty under cynthia is passed on safety warnings passed on you know good equipment that will work the safety chains are the key to they would have prevented it but they're not the sole key to why this happened to this mean that they can they're almost a stop to argue anything else because their warnings in the material they handed over to us say you've got to get off every time and check the interconnection between the mavi trailer and the gooseneck we never know that and who do you have to warn i mean that this kind of thing i struggled with the last few days reading i the case i mean frederick washington is a he's not like mister troutman he is an innocent bystander at the bottom of the hall of the ship who doesn't know anything about the warnings that say warned about the safety hazard here is that the turban are holes through gooseneck that you know they know this equipment space at the st thing that they did saudi arabian shipping company is what we're saying is we say that change didn't do it the way judge baker did here is that we're saying you don't have a duty to warn under cynthia that that's that's not the law the law is they sh it we're sitting here with a warning sheet it tells us when you pull this stuff up a ramp it's like being an underground garage or lanter miami or wherever anybody strong  port authority it's a lot and they they ascribe that benefit to us that we move this equipment these guys got to be protected they got a pass on warnings that's what cynthia sense and when you just say well  you know the safety brake didn't work here or the alarm didn't work you didn't have chains that bypasses the fact that they know on their equipment that the driver is supposed to be told to get off every time and check the connection i mean it we don't know does most of the stuff here down in savannah now they make sure that the gooseneck is wel the mafia trailer that's not what was happening here so if we say well one safety device was open and obvious it wasn't here that's not getting it here because i'm not savage in making this stuff up they handed this the document this says you gotta tell these drivers that they got to check the interconnection each time let me simple stuff you got to tell these drivers that these things are prone to come off when they're going to operate amps that's all that's happening here they're going up ramps you've got to warn the ultimate guy i mean you have safety meetings at the beginning part of washington didn't know any of this stuff i mean this guy is so different than troutman who walks among tigers i guess is what the opinion said that's what you know it was and you know this is the opening obvious test subject in student knowledge of the particular person is injured or is it objectively to what is reasonable experts stevedore would do i think it's the latter because object to redrill stevedore robot does that say because you have an open obvious defect because you don't have chains that you and you never tell the person that the this these things have a propensity to become on hand your propensity coming in when they go rams and that's ok because one of the many ways you could have protected this one chairman wasn't done you didn't tell these people that these things can come on hand you can tell them that the driver needs to get out so i mean you're looking at one of the three safety mechanisms and that's good enough obvious defect that's good enough this is the manufacture of this setup it's their equipment they wanted these longshoreman to get used they're quick because they want to get out of there that's what they're thirty six saying that you can do a half way good job of warning that passed on no warnings you can say that we don't have to tell these guys that we know that this stuff can come apart when it goes  we you guys can protect yourself i get now to check on the connection each time because we don't have safety chains i don't i don't that's not where we should be i think you know i realize too many lawsuits as too many pla are the cop thing they imports america put up all the money to treat frederick and stuff they've got a lane that's lock solid on the saying so i mean there's lots of losers when we let saudi arabia shipping company come in and don't pass on any of these problems that they know about because their safety stuff that they gave us showed what they should have done and they didn't do it i'm not going to respond i you know when i argue a jury trial i guess it sixty seven i pat things and but i've been and i believe you set a standard in this community for safety and you know we we all should be doing well the sport is a huge economic engine and a lot of people should get praise for one of the guys of the longshoreman and we should have protect them by merely asking saudi arabia's shipping company a pass on what you know it all right well thank you i know he's a very good more i just differ with him and try to get to become a u s attorney so i want to deal with him so much so i won't post and so much so far but he's a good person thank you forecaster foreshadowed the ruling that would eventually come down in the problems faced by focusing on two principle issues whether or not the absence of the safety chain was open and obvious and whether  that equipment addition to the turf or whose neck mof each combination could be used with reasonable safety to mister washington and his fellow longshoremen he does the judge baker correctly concluded that there was no material dispute over whether but there would have to be delivering some mounted on the side of that goose next to which a chain would be attached and wanted and then run down to the front bumper if you will of the mafi where another deering would be attached so there a safety chain and the important point on that is that it was readily apparent as you can see from the picture we provided in our in our group it's readily apparent to anybody operating this this target and use that combination that there was no opportunity to use safety chains again open obvious and something that can be used with reasonable safety even in the absence of safety chains i do want to address the point perhaps predicting of an eventual question from ju they point out that it is as mister savage admits it's an objective determination but what you're looking at is not that mister washington's understanding it is the negligence of the ship that's the only thing in consideration here is whether the ship was never open and obvious but that some that's not the operative consideration it is an objective standard whether it was open and obvious at all so with that said i do want to address briefly although not raised by mister savage i  beholden to address the two cases that were raised as the primary argument in the appellate brief the application of two cases the martinez case and the guilt case the hill case from the th circuit martinez so make it quick risk of unintended coupling of roll trailers especially on slopes make always sure the goose neck and rotor are coupled correctly before driving me where is that camp i mean as to whether or not we just raise the issue of chains i pay a lot of money to have excellent circuit clerk or lowers your ryan tanner who's good he put the issue in there which is if you violate to wear it out to me but you've got an interesting issue here which is if it's open obvious the chains so you hide other things that should be open and obvious if you want people you hide that the slopes are you trailer because that's what their documents say these guys don't know that what's the answer here might as we'll be waiting with bated breath where it's an open and obvious problem is that obviate your problem is that  tyco who's down here in savannah they weld together the gooseneck and the mafia trailer the reason you have the gooseneck is because you're going to hire thing the turbo tractor trailer and you have a lower thing the mafia trailer so you got to connected to it well them together that truck was being used the tyco truck right along with the other truck has it open obvious that this is not a well job where the main supplier here welcome together i agree on that on the you know it's not a concession for me to say it's open obvious i hope i tell the truth it is but you're going to got a duty to pass on warnings that these guys know the guys that don't know what they're doing thanks for your time and i can commend report for you made it even for an old guy pretty easy when you have good staff and  between he got hit over the head with a pipe and i think he's more of my heroes i said look frederick don't worry about we can take the guy's property he said i would never take the property of the old man will get it from the insurance company get a fight trying to defend somebody