individual accountability to appear and participate in and move all proceedings to do so without a provision requiring individuals in real proceedings to revive the government with an address at which that individual could be contacted which the government could then issue notice of any upcoming hearing if the individual did not provide that notice they wouldn't have to provide that address excuse me they would not receive written notice and they could remove be removed in abstention for failing to appear in this case misleading garcia complied fully with the ins requirement that she provide an address at which she could be contacted respecting her move all proceedings when she was apprehended at the border she provided the government with her home address in guatemala for her that home address was the most consistent address that she had certainly the most reliable for notice purposes notwithstanding have been complied fully with the statute the government never provided miss the nigger see it with a written notice of her upcoming hearing to which she was entitled under the statute which she provided on the form following the show cause she provided to the border patrol agent when she was apprehended at the border if a court looks to th border patrol agent that apprehended her at the border that shown on the form i two thirteen that shows the address that what she could be contacted for removal proceedings going forward so how could she be contacted statute requires only that the government that she is able to receive she's able to provide an address that was she could be contacted and the government provide a written notice that doesn't require personal service or certified mail an address that which she could have received certified mail here she provided it again to serve that accountability loop the congress intended to create and the under the the amended provisions of the i a e a and address that which she could be contacted the government could have sent her written notice of that address as it was a crack at that address as it was required to do under the statute but it failed to do that that was all that missing the garcia was required to do under the statutory provisions in place at this time but she required to update she she you know there was no need for her to up to her address because she never she never had a change of address at least for the purposes of the of of notice again the statue requires her to write an address that which she could be contacted for notice purposes her address her form to change but we have to assume that she did for purposes of argument today don't we i'm sorry but her affidavit says that she did not receive the form to change her address but we have to assume that she did ruling here makes clear that the address that she provided was a good address the only issue was whether under the statute the fact that it was a foreign address didn't satisfy the requirements so there's no question here that she receives an address the she gave an address that what she could have received delivery of a written notice from a government approval proceeding agency is not the v a has not question that on this record of your on your honor's this petition for review turns solely on the meaning of two thirty nine a one half the provision that requires a non citizen to provide the government with quote a written record of an address that was the alien may be its surrounding provisions and the practice of the agency itself having developed a whole system for the premised on this assumption that any address is sufficient so long as the government can use that address to hold the individual accountable to appear and participate in their proceedings contact them to contact them which would you say had no requirements of personal contact or certified mail this time that's correct did she go legally re so you're not sure whether you know she this is an unusual situation where she is coming and going and that sort of thing sure i mean she didn't receive proper notice of her individual and consistent with their own practice sure sure so the the agency here has developed has probably good regulations pursuant to the i a e a and has developed forms that it's used to to manage and implement removal proceedings those regulations the regulations themself certainly contemplate that an individual can be served and can be contacted a foreign address and that's a foreign address is sufficient for notice purposes you know proceedings was provided for the applicant at the most recent address on file again without limitation and they go on and on in point three seven point three two all call for for contacting the individual at their most recent address again no limitations also point out that that you are form thirty three the change of address form itself permits an individual to change his or her address with the immigration court to an address in care of another person in a country other than the united states so the forms themselves contemplate that a foreign address certainly is sufficient for notice purposes under the statute also do you want to address the hernandez case deal with issues the communication lack of communication or duty to communicate with the immigration court following service of the notice to appear but different tell us why that significant well it's significan going to contact this person and put the address on there when they don't tell over the regulation one thousand three point to fifteen d is very clear the burden is on you and there's no hiding the ball here  handed the note here it was very clear to her that her address was not on the front of it and therefore that the regular dorie duty to contact the immigration court would fall upon her to provide written notice within five days and there's no claim that she ever did so but the board did not rely on that here and just applying longstanding rules in the ministry of law where the board's decision has to fall or stand based on the reason provided  government would renew its request to remain to the board to address if necessary its conclusion that a foreign address was not an address i do we need to do that well your honor the but it's just one of the factors that you can abuse your discretion and make an error of law if there are a lot of other circumstances that would also support the decision ok so i've still unsure what you think the proper disposition of this case so now but we have a statute saying that she must provide an address where she can be contacted she her mother father in law or cousin so why is it different than their case where your your colleague did not argue this at all frankly not much of an interpretation decision under review and that's why we've asked it to be sent back so you're saying factually she had this obligation and she should have met it and she didn't need it but that's not the reason that was explained by the board and so we have to send it back to the board can now explain that if they choose to yes your honor or i mean i owe it to my client to give them an opportunity if they really want to bite on this for an address does not qualify that's what i'd be seeking then the opportunity to do that once we accept the statute is in big us there are certainly things to be said in this negotiates favor we know that notices sometimes is provided to foreign countries and we know sometimes it's fleeing her husband or a father in a foreign country coming here to seek asylum whether that's a violent asylum claim or not we the government may decide but we don't really want to send mail to the persecution his address  at the same time the board has had thirty years of working with in absentia orders and it knows what things mean when they get returned by the post office of the post office says this address doesn't exist or if the recipient refused recei or if the recipient got it that said return to sender no longer lives here we know what those mean i don't think we know what the guatemalan post office would do in any particular instance how how would we know what to do with the absentia why are these novel claims coming thirty years ago were these claims not considered before why is this now i'm not sure i have a good good answer to  that or i could say i'm sure i don't have a good answer to that obviously we have two of these cases on the same day today and we have more and we have as many of these as in the other circuit in america per judge we have  you know to night may have more total but we have less judges is and we don't have this argument and we haven't had this argument what's going on  disagree that i had not seen it before either you should notice is sometimes provided to foreign countries or you spend a little bit of that but can you flesh that out for me when there's a statute governing it's called expedited removal proceedings and that's when you come in you present yourself procedurally proper fashion to the d n a test so at the border and they have to determine whether you're in the civil war or not you know if you don't have travel documents you're not miscible other times you might have a piece of but there's indication you have a foreign conviction or something and they can't tell right away if you are admissible to united states and there's a statute providing contiguous countries i e mexico and canada we can make it go back there won't be determined whether this whether it whether to admit you and and those cases they necessarily received notice at their address and back so this is by the way this is an address where they actually are it's not an address we know when she provided her address to d h as she had no intention of going back to guatemala she was headed to new york to see out and how the proceeding cases to the distinction is based on the reason provided by the board for dismissing the appeal in the prior case the board correctly relied on the regulatory obligation and once you've got your charging document if it says on the front of the provided us address you have to contact immigration court directly no matter what conversations you had   construction issue presented under twelve twenty nine to thirty nine a one this before the government see that and harden up before the agencies have an opportunity to address it this is a novel issue that if would affect thousands of cases and we're supposed to just do this on our own without having any guidance from the b a a you have a bit of both the immigration court and the b s a where we address the issue that's presented before this court today about is the wherever it may be the address has to have some notice purposes or is it also so that you can keep up with were all these people are who have come into the country and you don't want to lose them because you're letting them out and not detaining them is it is it not just so that you asking under this statute is the is the only purpose so that you can provide them appropriate notice or is it also see you can sort of try to keep track of the people and find them if you want to go pick them up the purposes notice for a fair hearing own lee notice that certainly the agency has promulgated regulations and and requires individuals to maintain a current address as miss luna garcia is currently doing here she is in contact with the agency every ninety days at present so absolutely it's in some in many respects the address is maintained for the purposes of maintaining contact and interviewed him before and you wouldn't be able to do that i'm sorry if it was a foreign address you wouldn't be able to know where the people who you've released on their p r bonds or whatever where they are and around the country even for statistical purposes if you don't require a us address that that may be in the regulations that govern that procedure once the individual enters that enters that state of their legal proceedings here the pumpers of his address was provided no to to for the government to provide