on the agenda so anyone who would like to talk about an on agenda item has an opportunity right now saying there are not next item would be u if it was yet so move i don't even know we'd have to go back through that process but you know fire engine near around whoever if this board is approved obviously this issue was appreciated at one point along the way or the alternative would be and the thinking was that boyer was supposed to be widened sufficiently modified so that you can make a left and right out of there and so this would keep people from cooling north form warrior in coming out process on this i would say that when the plan was a bill that would have been the time to argue about that the other thing i question is that internally in the play and there are actually turns that are more critical than that particular turn so i think you're going to have problems throughout the plan as well as at the entrance when you have tractor trailers and moving vans going over the corner lots the second thing i'd like to say is that yes the intention initially in my opinion would have been a better plan to go out on to be about road and eliminate happened to have this left turn right turned sharp turn at the bottom of the hour hailed earth because of because as a matter of fact all the arguments remain mr taylor are why that would have been a better way to construct entrance because the traffic is a difficult turn there i don't disagree that it's going to be difficult for them to get in for the median i'm not sure the median or make a difference they'll probably run right over it and i just feel that given your experience approval just for it because that somewhere along the way the through site play and process where you subdivision process you prove this feature with the plans and so you probably have to go back in the at least for that particular piece modify it that way this board just can't vote to take and before we get off this subject can i ask mr zuck another question i had talked to you and made a recommendation that perhaps they want to guard rail at the end of the year with one roadway that looks out onto the farm next to there was  possible entertainment or additional features of the farmer's market beyond providing the vendors and the parking etc for the farmer's market and in since we kind of for whatever reason it stuck in our mind the amplification part trying to mind but it wasn't until we were talking about whether or not there was a possibility of changing that we realized that it actually prohibited outdoor music altogether and we had been in the process of talking with acoustic local to stick  i've owned a company called south wales music academy here and it's here in south wales area since two thousand and six and we specialize in private music lessons as well as small performing groups like the kids on broadway choral type of music and we kept my company we do lessons for guitar and brass and woodwind kind of instruments but i don't think that would be something that we would be doing out  the farmers market just the small productions of the children's broadly type things and individual musicians to play the piano or sing individually and that's what we're interested in giving back to the community the children on saturday at the broad war senior center in bridgeville and it's a typical thing that our children are taught to do to give their use their talents to give back to the community so we go to other nursing homes and hospitals and schools some of the folks who've asked are pianists and they would use like an electric keyboard and vocals it wouldn't be like a band but but they would need some kind of a graduation here among and i guess that was our point is that we have some smaller things any further discussion but i'd like to make a comment i'm going to be the meanie tonight show i don't necessarily support the idea that in music you're starting with the farmer's market and i have a lot of misgivings about the parking and what kind of traffic congestion that's going to cause you may have people coming to hear the performers instead of shop at the market which i think well might magnify the parking and truck traffic issue i think i'm glad you're trying to market i think it's a great idea i think you need to do that first and see how it impacts the neighborhood before you move on to the next step there's no one here from the neighborhood as far as to make any comments about whether or not they one way or the other about the possibility of we developed our plan thusly we had some comments and some feedback from planning commission at the last meaning we've recently updated our traffic calming features meet the required saw this we're looking to do a a wooded development the intent is not clear cut a lot will be cleared and graded  per sales of the homes and so the the development will centrally happen in two phases phase one will install the road and all the utilities as well as outlining where the tree preservation areas are and creating a few watts of the front of the development for balancing purposes of earthwork and also creating some initial sites to do some lot and as i said each lot's going to be cleared as it's built and we have a detailed grading plans for the we know what the cut and fill are for each individual lot so for instance we've got  by side lots are cut cut lots are still we've got a plan put in place so that we know somebody buys a lot well it has its x amount of cut extra material and we know that lot seventeen and eighteen are going to balance that out so we in that case we would create seventeen and eighteen we are the pads for those lots as a balancing feature we've got  will there be a homeowners association that's responsible to maintain those yes homeowners association will be responsible for maintaining landscaping managing the tree preservation area should anything one of my next question  in the body of the planning commission recommendations there's nothing that references protecting the easements is that going to be left to the homeowners association so that it would then don't encroach back into the conservation area each property as as we do the grading plans and as each individual deed is done we have specified within the record document the tree preservation area so that the homeowners will now here's the line that you can't return on the asking is that i live in one of those communities and the people don't really pay much attention to that so i was just trying to understand since we made the allowance for this sad fact that that in fact was going thing about the homeowners association documents when you write those were the people be told that the thirty five foot variances were already a variance and that there probably won't be an opportunity to request anything so they want to porch or anything like that garage versus a front facing garage there may be some reduction of impervious areas should somebody choose a house that has a front gracia versus a side place the reason i'm asking i appreciate your explanation i reluctantly agreed to this because you were promoting this right as a conservation plan broad so i would hope that everything you can possibly do to keep that concept forward would make sense and one last question the connection to be bout farms are you going to put that in place so that if a school bus goes in they can have that turning area or are you going to wait and do that i think we were directed to leave school buses to come to the bar with you yet i don't know what the plan here the intent is not have school buses come up into probably would come just for going back to the initial proof of this plan that it was operating not in compliance with the subdivision or the site plan approval but normally it's not the unsuspecting homeowner the that has the issue would be the developer begin they're not there marrows inquiry then we would have the right or somebody did in this plan you know that's a question very think with i haven't talked to mike about this but going back to the initial subdivision approval when they do not have any rights to go to encroach into that area they're in necessary that would be early recourse but who would we enforce against as to the homeowner that went into the area that's not allowed to be and sometimes we have the right to do what i think that's what it is same as doing right now under the auspices of your contrary to the approval of the plane and not a surly per home but per plan it's not it's a little unusual that what we usually see that you're in violation of a setback here in violation of one of the an issue approvals we're trying to enforce also on the record player then we would have a right to enforce their conditions i guess similar to a setback if we say you can't get so we can't get closer to your neighbor's property if you're in a conservation district  arguably we couldn't foresee your pilotage not so much of our ordinance but of the plane approval and so we would have some records i think that's what they're that would be our only recourse that i can think of and there's going to be twenty in the planning commission recommendation tries to the bulk of the sites on the skinny on the rear of the properties are cut or fill slopes for tion purposes so you are naturally going to have a buffer that is going to be somewhat prohibitive developed very clearly show the limit of the trees men and where the conservation areas are associated with that so each homeowner will have their own document that shows that as well  i'd like to make a motion to recommend approval of the ironwood plan subject to the conditions recommended by the planning commission in mystery's oak  accessing rear entrance basement driveways the market in again this is a proof several years ago in any homes has developed the parcel down below partial six fifteen with upon discussion with our neighbors and the homeowners association so to clarify the lower unit sixty one three sixty four face their neighbors across the street and then the units behind face the back of the new unit sixty one through sixty four correct and the road that your proposing for the sixty eight through sixty sixty five through sixty eight it's a driveway it's not a public road private driveway  the so you're putting parallel parking  there's an ad in the paper they had requested in the past on other properties to be able to put sensors on top of properties currently the council had previously turned down they have they've asked for two other i'm on the agenda is ordinates amending chapter fifteen of the motor vehicles and traffic right there are people who have gravel parking pads adjacent to the road what does this do to impact is this is the first section of the road i don't believe there's any there this is goes up to  on the parks and recreation board at our meeting last thursday made several recommendations to council one of which is a project proposed by our softball association first scoreboards out of the park expansion on the two full size fields one is for it's actually a phased project with the baseball association they're proposing three different improvements of the recreation center field  that includes dugouts a movement of the existing fence behind the backstop and the installation of the scoreboard and those are the two association projects that are proposed both are being funded solely by the associations and then also they did discuss an issue presented by  off leash animals and waste animal waste in the parks and they made a recommendation for and forstmann trying to have some sort of and foresman in the parks  with the signs and such that are currently there on to try and force are going to do it we do have some we do have signs and they did talk about increasing that as well unfortunately the center is not you know faces away so it's not disturbing to any of the homeowners as far as the placement of it it's going to be at the work we're actually working on a location this was my desire or trying to figure out because of the electrical lines  through there but it's going to be at the end of the field facing the buildings in some respects we don't know exactly what location that will be but it won't be on the rec centers side facing the residents for final approval of that the park place people have complained about the public works before depending on how far that visible i would want to make sure that there's no residents who are concerned about that what were they would be  in compliance with the scoreboard advertising policy that we have in place that was recently amended they had two panels for advertising and on there they had proposed to write peter's township baseball says station across the top and recreation center field across the bottom that would only be exposed if they didn't have to have advertising and the hope for that was so that it wouldn't just ordinance because the plenty there are changes that people make into the park with dogs and they can enter the park and not see one sign in the entire time they're in the park and on the trail well it says on all the park road s one which we have we have said that we were going to do more signage but unfortunately we don't believe that that's going to solve the problem because in just about every community that you go to any more or the ordinance requires a leash and people just don't follow it and as we talked about in the meeting i had our main the supervisor attend to talk about his experiences and driving through the parks the first thing you see you know when they see the yellow truck come in and grab the dog into the leash on smiling or walking and you can look in your ear and once the truck passes they take the leash right the dog is free again so they know what they're doing wrong  to try to enforce that particular order because i do think it's a safety issue as well and they talked about them both like i said what we'd like to do we're in the process of working with an eagle scout on redoing some of the signs that we'd like to redo it like our sign locations and try to condense our signs in the one location instead of having them so right out and so we have kind of like a rule signed kiosk and put everything together with and highlighting the spoke with the d p today mark and i had a conference call where found we've been trying to get permission to do the go ahead to go in to complete the public improvements and which is which comprises of finishing up  environmental regulations and requirements that were made of the prior developer as far as how that point was to be constructed and it was to be sealed in in a manner so to minimize water  going through the ground and into the the coal waste dump this town and so in our discussion they've agreed that the drawings and misters of midas proposed would not be a problem and they gave us a verbal go ahead but they will not give us a you know they're not giving any permits or would not put anything in writing and they continue to point out that there is a concern the other if there's any other parties that might challenge that you know that our action might precipitate the problem with pollution that you know that's at our risk because they're not going to give us any approvals  developers and you know we think that any action we take will have no impact on the environmental aspects of that development but i i know that's a  standpoint sends up red flags saying that hey we're not sure whatever you do up there you might be responsible for this massive environmental cleanup down below and i'm not sure anybody wants to get into that in terms of the scope so it's one of these double i here i get and i've looked at the plans and mark it looks to be really diminished in terms of putting the walking trail in the sidewalks in but if it was so much so you would think that he would just sign off and give us some sort of waiver some sort of approval they will put anything  so that's my has taishan now we want to completely want to you know we've claimed on the bottom we want to fulfill that obligation but for whatever reason we can't get that done without the d p i'm saying they're saying go ahead but do it in you're a risk we're or at least what we have an idea is in the area so that that's my only has taishan we're not i don't think it's going to be a problem i think if we have engineering controls and a before and after and some sort of writing that reflects that the only alternative would be you know some sort of consent order that maybe a court order would protect the township i'm not sure we go that far if if somebody would bring it actually gets a chance for full filling the obligations under the bond and the court orders it or we agree to a consent order i'm not sure if we get any greater protection under that award or by to the elites it's for the council's consideration that's where we are we'd like to i'd like to something from b p in writing i think like in mark we're to there's a recognition we're not going to get that i attended a meeting with us and the local office to resolve the various problems in that plan one uses of course as being one but more so the overall problem with the house and continue contingent on them having worked on with that so they did my but obviously we're not looking to transfer our liability to those particular homeowners too because there was a developer the that had the burden to put that in seemingly if we could just begin i thought it was a pretty benign request to the township made hey we just want to complete this can you do your engineering control see the we're not going to have a problem so that you don't try to get any other issues voters later they  comment when we when this happened and the homeowners association was approached about what they wanted done with the rest of the money if i understand it was a little bit of a dialogue about what they wanted there was a playground and some other things swings well i guess the point i'm trying to make is i'm not trying to transfer our life ellie but if in fact the money is in ask for because additional work needs to be done in the plan with there being any objection to giving the what we would like to do is dead they're going to have park crossing underneath sugar camp road for a maximum of one year we would like to work out an easement agreement with them or