ok before we start running the clock mr word for nagra question for you and that is that the blue brief and the joint appendix are designated as confidential i'm not sure i understand what could be confidential in the sense we're talking about claim construction that is all based on intrinsic evidence which intrinsic evidence is a public document or public and publicly accessible  documents is there any limitation on what we can discuss during this oral argument the reason that it's marked that way is not really i mean if you do with the information that you describe it as some work to do with product information that is reference limitation this time to the term dispatch which requires that the dispatch specify vehicle destinations exclusively and so what that means is that the vehicles desired destination cannot originate from anywhere other than forget where else it could come from that it can't come from the vehicles move when you know that yes that that is where this all the originated from because the way that maybe it helps to explain how the hughes product works so that puts in context what the dispute was the way and then and then the dispatch will generate this doesn't information which includes the destination of course and then sends out a whole package that right i understand some what you're more and like but a lot of grief is on the fact that it can't really be exclusive because we've got this that's host component or maybe there's a third party who designates to the dispatch where the vehicle should go so  and and you know your friend on the other side said maybe we ought to just agree to take the word exclusive out of the construction and then we'll get to what the real just is and so and am i wrong that the real question we have here is whether or not this particular concern this particular configuration which is it comes from the vehicles mobile unit the back to the server before the dispatchers sends out the information that that that's really the question of whether the claim is broad enough to cover that right and that is the question but the reason the district court had to use the word exclusively is because i think the district court felt that carving out that it can come from external sources like you described in the patent host the driver in one instance and then from third parties you know inputs from from outside the dispatch if they just report or decide well it can come from all the sources the only thing it can come from is the driver which by the way  page seventy six your friend on the other side is going to say that that what that is it is actually just storing and and memory in the that particular location once you've gotten there right  just nation which is a form of destination information even then the so i don't know i mean you can you can read this i'm sure for theory the different way but it seems like this is already where the trick is it and route and you've already got th the operator may enter the position of the particular destination based upon the position of the vehicle determined by the mobile positioning receiver the position of the destination may be stored in memory along with an identification of that destination this task can then use the actor position information for that destination in generating destination information for future trips so i don't understand how  generation doesn't your permission but there's also where that idea originates for the destination and so what happens is these other sources including here it stored in memory provided to the dispatch that is given to the dispatch then the dispatch takes other information and generate and i guess we first start off with the with with the the fact that this invention is designed to provide a time of a rival that's basically whether it's its basic function so if we look accidents road closures those factors may be made may be provided to the mobile unit from dispatch or generated locally at the vehicle now if you generate this if you generate destination information destination information or the factors that are used for destination information is generated locally and vehicle that's for us as locally at the huichol we're talking about the the mobile unit destination information so am i correct to say that that these factors can also be generated locally had a vehicle and when i'm what i'm picturing here's the truck driver to stop and say well the bridge is just profession there is not the destination information includes destinations of course but then includes waypoints average travel speeds conclude on a whole host of things the claims only require that destination information be also includes has to include the destination right like cleveland doesn't the claims do not require that now remember that the irony of all of this is in the last appeal we were had it was about waypoints and  surprise and said that the dispatch cannot specify the final destination that was excluded from the construction so that's how they read the specification previously back out reversed and now we're back in there saying well ok i'm reading the specification again and not only does the dispatch have to include the destination which of course it can but it has to do so exclusively so that's where we've been in this case the first the first time around that the last time around the district court said it couldn't generate the final destination or just await the final destination was in a way that the waypoints could be a final destination right sorry i must hurry i thought you said that these please the court let me just follow up that last question from your article malley suspects fight does have meaning as meaning specification has ordinary meaning ordinary parlance of the use of that term and now is the term we used and  sources from the patent talks about at the dispatch there's a computer and a human user can input destination information what the plans clear about is that the dispatch generates that's the nation information and or the mobile device the patent talks about that's the nation information the steam from any other type of information so the patent talks about that a vehicle operator can input information  exclusively provides destination information is there a difference between destination information and calculation of a right of time absent absolutely so let's just go back to calm three which is appendix seventy two we'll just talk about the meaning of destination information starting in column three lines i believe it will be eight my eyes are just it says volatile call on sudden destination information maybe we have no construction i want to thank all my my view is that the hand says destination information is that information generated by dispatch the disease not answering the question because i think that's true that these these li on at the bottom fifty five are the top of flight six talk about things that might be desolation information and then that they can be generated by the car but you could also argue those are factors relating to time  about calculating arrival time were relevant dispatch that the mobile unit has to use information to calculate estimated time arrival and it reports information back to the dispatch so that the dispatch can make decisions it's controlling the vehicle it's telling which where the vehicle needs to go how to get travelling whether travel conditions prior no other information impacting their trip those that's destination information those are all examples of destination information and those are that late information and that late information is communicated back to the dispatch so the dispatch can make a determination whether whether the vehicle needs to go to another destination or make calls to customers but the fundamental construct  pelleas proposed construction we still believe there's infringement and because of that that's why we believe judge starr then when it to emphasise the point hey if between between the mobile unit this batch is exclusively dispatches as destination information can be input into the controller of the dispatch and then it talks about then the discretion generates destination information there by specifying the destination why because it dispatches purpose is control and supervise vehicles it receives inputs those inputs can be the dispatcher receiving calls from customers and then that this factory inputs it into the system so that the next phase in the service calls will then be directed by the dispatch that's the point of the dispatch yes it will receive inputs but the dispatcher makes the decision of which vehicle goes where that's the whole point of the sim and when the host of doing it it's still generating the same information and sending it over the same signals in call three a talks about that if one of the host can perform the stated function of the dispatch with that which is to generate destination information and in that instance a talks about the it has a different meaning than the district court intended but we do claim constructions no vote generally unless we have extremes of evidence which i don't think we have here if we understand that the whole point of this is and we agree that this cl is talking about information not being the destination information not being inputted from the vehicle but allowing it to be inputted from the either a dispatch or a post have to spot can we come up with our ordinary meaning is as we proposed at below to the court and i think your answer to transfuse is that you that we can modify the construction to take into account what the actual implications of the construction were and the dispatch that only the dispatch can specify the destination information then there still would be no infringement right if if your construction site shows that the ahead i feel like you know we're hearing you talk about this is a fleet management patent but we're getting so far from the claims and so far from what the invention was i mean here the way the claims are written the inputs to the dispatch are not mentioned and don't matter so where the idea comes from with respect to the destination is not claimed and if it doesn't care it doesn't matter and there's examples in the patent work comes from the hoax in column three and this is important i think the answer the question that was just just raised and the language is very important here and this is in column three it says therefore it says the dispatch collects destination information from several hosts what environment i'm on line twenty and tr tell it you give you the gist that's the destination it provides a whole package of information that must include the waypoints but as judge radio is talking about it includes all these other things to determine if something is well or mean it for us to  arrival time equates to specifying destination for me right you never made that that's never been this disagreement in the case it's never been an issue is it that right does never mind the argument you never made the argument that somehow that equates to specifying destination information frank i'm not sure i understand that you didn't cite the information in columns five and six in support of your construction did you but i think we did there with that information is a claim five which is asserted in this case it's a dependent claim that talks about weather and traffic being the destination information including weather and traffic so that was asserted in this case and that's entered into the mobile unit but certainly those are different way points than what would would have been suggest children and that's not the dispatch begins to recalculate the time of arrival and how you know other things are likely to save that for the future it  of my time thank you very much yes and you asked for it well i mean i just i think the last word would be that it's really getting back to the claim language claim five and ignoring in quotes and looking at the fact that the dispatch crea outputs for the mobile unit i think that is the key to answering questions about the screen ok thank