advertising the observer reporter on january thirteenth and twentieth airing notice was placed on touch a bulletin boards the website and cable television in addition surrounding property owners were given written notification and the property was post council may take action seeding depending on the comments received at this hearing prior to accepting comments mr sylvester will make a brief statement followed by a presentation by the applicant was for those unfamiliar with this the in two thousand the year two thousand stayed daubed of act one forty one which loosened up the ability for transfer of liquor licenses within a county and part of the good evening i'm holly given i'm the attorney here in behalf of about our l l c we have doreen valentine here who is the sole member of the l l c just a little bit of information for you about our l l c is a p a limited liability company and they're looking to use this it's a restaurant like a liquor license our license number are dash one one zero four seven and they're looking to use it at three nine zero nine washington road suite two zero one here in peter's as  avenue and ten or so just a little bit of information about what they're looking to do there they don't have a name yet but it's going to be a fish taco that's the focus of the restaurant with some salad and some other food too but the main focus will be  fish tacos currently planning on being open just for dinner which would be opening at four o'clock closing at eleven sunday through thursday possibly staying open a little bit later on the weekends depending on business the restaurant plans on having approximately ninety two seats possibly outside seating if that would go through with the landlord and with the township i'm sure most of your familiar it's a commercial area where she's going into already  the restaurants planning up to a ploy to employ approximately thirty four time and part time employees and if there's any question that you have regarding the liquor license transfer that i can answer your questions about the business i'm sure miss  valentine i did have a question the site is it has a courtyard outside of it did you have a plan to have seating in the courtyard itself now ok so it would all be contained inside so the  literally no one parks there unless you have the white cat was so no one here i would go that route would not be part of this approval if they wanted to pursue that they would need to go when would you presume to possibly ok i'm hoping for may and has there been any conversation from the other tenants of the building about you coming in in that capacity i know you were there before now nobody said anything to me and t any other questions by counsel mr sylvester and what are the other businesses that are located in that world for them or well there's there's multiple businesses on different floors in the first floor same level well and just so the townships where to stay still have to file after they go through the procedure with you guys with the state and with the liquor board any children's it's labeled as schools with that two special reports they're all right this period of time is the for audience comments this is limited to five minutes for non agenda items that would be items that are not on the agenda but of anyone here that would like to speak during the public comment section saying that there is none next item on the agenda is unfinished business and that would be appointments to fill vacancies on various boards yes council table vacancies on a number of boards were the opportunity to interview as well to additional applicants have any other are standing interviews that were well that that's up to come to their there were a number of out in case that came in since the first set of interviews so there are a lot of people that have not been interviewed or we've interviewed quite a few we have and there's always a great degree of very qualified candidates voice making these decisions very difficult for members of council but that's a very good position to be  mr chairman i think that the zoning hearing board is one that we've interviewed everybody should perhaps we could dispatcher that i'd like to make a motion that we appoint to won't turn it's john basic candidate will i think we should like interview on i would agree with that i think we should give people an opportunity i think it's been very nice that so many people have stepped forward we don't always have that wonderful opportunity and we can interview people and then if we have a future openings whatley snow people going to discharge her microphone we wait until our first meeting in february most boards meet after that meeting anyhow right on the river first mcginnis the priest in charge appointed by a bishop at st david's a fiscal church i've been there for about a year and a half with me are three of the nine other board members for the farmers market that's been planning and putting it worship offering a place for community to gather peters township being kind of the community community we want to provide places for people to gather and for people to meet and interact with their neighbors as well as have the opportunity to shop for local foods and and other tatted value items so it's not just produce but it's other things we're having have a is in meats and things like that is what we are hoping to we in the planning stages of a approaching vendors we've kind of been holding off until we get through this permitting process but we have about sixty five vendors i believe that we're approaching and of those will select of those who apply will select a good kind of mixture of products so  there's not any one kind of product or type of food or item being over represented at the at the advice of the head of the planning department mr ed zwick we approached the local farms just to give them a heads up to get an idea as to how they felt about this we were able to contact the dot farm who does mostly wholesaling and while they were supportive of the project and would let us know if they ever decided to move into kind sales would let us know talked to bob who is runs the market piece of simmons farm who said that they even though they have the market way down the road would likely apply to be a part of the farmer's market and of course any of the local farmers would absolutely accept it would really be a question kern farms is another one that is in eighty four it's close by they have a market in peters township and they're going to participate in the final was trax farm we have a couple calls into two different family members  tracks farm paddy tracks and ross tracks i believe we have yet to hear back from them that i believe there was are rules and regulations and an overview of our market plan as well as a drawing of how we were planning on setting up in traffic flow and things like that presented with before the meeting there there was an update to that last wednesday i'm not sure if that was able to be sent down to believe it was the only substantive change from what you had originally received is that objection and what about traffic obviously is the biggest concern i do know that currently because of the valley brook intersection mcmurry road is seeing more traffic than it normally would and especially in that area because a lot of people use hayes road as a patient detour and so that would be a concern in my comments i do point out that you know that that there's not going be any question of whether they'll be there or not and i some kind of emergency arises so it'll be up and down each day you would you have any problem if we made the  parking along ok mcmurry road we well know we have all the parking we have on the property so we have about seventy five to one hundred spaces reserved for partners and then secondly i think the other obviously the concern is people getting in and out  since we don't have a good idea exactly of who will be there and what and we kind of have some restrictions on how large a truck you know someone can bring and we have parking set aside for that's not part of the parking i mentioned set aside for vendors  park we were hoping to reserve the green area for kind of people who want to stay if there's prepared foods for people to kind of picnic or to be there and to and to have just kind of that community gathering space and other concern is if there's rain or something like that we don't want to have any trouble with cars getting stuck or anything though if we find that there is an issue if there's an overflow or if there's that or you know we have more people than we expect coming to the market we would certainly keep that option open my specially want to have a better idea of who will be there us we've been here a long time my father before me and my grandpa for me and i talk to my doubt about it you know a little bit and we when i said that i would would attend they did call me which i thought was very nice very taken initiative to contact local farmers that was very good and considerate and i would i would be attending because i have in my opinion i have no choice but we have a market on  have a market at our farm it's been very restrictive i believe the township has been very restrictive on us that is that there's a set of rules the stick you know that i know that all the things that we have to do to sell our produce on nineteen and at our form and it's a little frustrating first the established business like me when you approve something that's just come on out set up your tents produce and that's it you know there it's a little frustrating years ago we had to pay for a police officer to be there are directing traffic all the time the traffic was backed up sometimes i'm out that's a big market it's monday wednesday and friday it is a very big market i do go to some that are at churches and some of them there's no problem no traffic problem what so i but if it is a successful one if it is a big one we have five five and a half acres of parking there and still they ended up putting a light in there pretty much for nothing but that market flew much from nothing but that so they can attract a lot of traffic in other not notated looks like the rules are pretty good at the some of them turn into have one of the things i would ask i know that you don't intend that people will just make merry we also don't intend that people will park on the grass in the park and we can't control them so you have your own grass and then you have the neighbors across the street or are we thinking that we would have any signage that says no parking or are you going to be going out there with people to move we will you know we will always have at least one of you who are members or staff members there on site i mean it kind of gives the idea that it's endorsed by the timeship and i don't mean that it isn't but i actually that was where we went with just kind of it when we talked about in our group because we wanted since there was no other kind of multimedia vendor market quite like this where we wanted the kind of prominence in the idea behind it to be something for the community i'm we're in no way we understand that is subject to approval i kind of it figured that someone would ask a question if that was of concern i was going i was prepared to kind of comment on it we're happy to call the same david farmer farmer's market or something else but we were hoping that that would be kind of part of almost like a partnership with with the the township there we deal we are very clear in the regulations that there is no liability or connection to the town that was my biggest concern and not to imply that the rather hi good evening it's nice to put some faces with some of the people that have been speaking to the last couple of weeks my name is donna hafner spencer i'm from atlanta georgia i'm not a resident here and peters township i'm here representing my mother nancy hofner who is eighty two years old and owns the property at one zero eight driftwood drive which is part of the hidden brook subdivision what we're asking for is is to request in a woman nation of the fire suppression system a cave the sprinkler system that is in her house she purchased her house in august of this year ok six months ago basically and on wednesday january eighth her sprinkler system pipes burst in the back part of her house causing severe damage and i want to first of all i want to thank the fire department because as first responders they were there they had to break into my mother's house and they did so and access the house got her dog out and started to save her possessions do want to thank them we are totally grateful to them for what they did that day on the following saturday january eleventh we had a second sprinkler break in that house and it took out the rest of the house the front part of our house her house is totally been unlivable since that was two so she has been displaced since january eighth i have been living part time in the house it has everything in and it has been moved or been destroyed and where and remediation and reconstruction at this time but in and going through all this i've just been on a mission i guess to find out now what we can do in the future so that this will not happen to my mother again we've had it happen twice within a week but with the weather systems we've even got going and now winter comes every year so that she will feel safe and feel no harm and for the other residents also in had broke that have the same systems put in i've talked to several of you about the situation and about how terrible it is for your whole house to be destroyed especially when you just got it six months ago but i've also talked to the insurance company about it and what's happening there is in the request to have the system deactivated we would not have the system torn out of the house what we're asking is to deactivate the system so that the sprinkler system would never activate and turn on i found out from the insurance company as long as we notify them that's not an issue i talk to them about if my mom's house because one of the concerns that was brought up is if we had a fire if my mom had a fire at her house and it caught the next house on fire what happens there  basically it's it's an insurance issue that goes back to determining how the fire started negligence on my mother's part and she'd have to pay for both houses if it was electrical or lightning struck or whatever some other issue it's on each insurance company so that was not an issue but that being said the insurance company the our agent is notifying the company because they insure several homes there in the area and they feel that this is now  a problem for them that they are going to reconsider carrying insurance there and hadn't broken the homes in hidden broke because of the situation because of so much damage by the sprinkler system so a system that was set up to actually suppress fire and i'm pretty sure that when i talk to the fire department there has not been one fire and the area where the system has worked or needed to be at you know turned on and that all the cases which i think there's probably about ten ten cases over the last since i guess since the plan was was built of homeowners that had instances the day following my mother's on january eighth that was when hers was i drove in from atlanta on january ninth and the fire department was there at cove court for another sprinkler system that had activated and broken and burst and caused damage and i think that was the third time for that homeowner so there's there's been several homes that have had multiples in there so what we're requesting is that we be able to leave the system in the house so future future people can future owners can activate it choose to activate it or not but our system was put in with copper piping it's been repaired the system has been repaired right now because they had to close up the walls but it has not been deactivated because right now we can't heat the house totally so there's and then with the weather it would be and that's what they told us that would be just another liability to turn of the system on again i've looked into i have a sprinkler system company actually pipes for sprinkler systems but that being said that's the system that is in the house and to change the system over to there are two two different ways to go i guess a dry system activate it with a compressor and the other system would be to add some and a freezer i guess that's like a glycerin mix ok to do that to my mother's house just to do the glycerin mix is the first estimate that i got alone was thirty seven hundred dollars to do that to really do the system and reboot it and do the glycerin which she does not wish to do and talking to you know our attorney we ask you know we can do sign a hold harmless whatever we need to do so that again we're not affecting the people around us and i don't you know that's one of the things that that was brought up in trying to think of what else that we had we had talked about there but that's pretty much it it's insurance the cost again and the cost is going to go up the hazard cost it's going to lower the values as word gets out that the sprinkler systems are failing and that's what they are they are failing to do what they were meant not to do and that you know they're supposed to be suppressing a fire and not once has that happened and instead it's causing damage that's running into like hundreds of thousands of dollars my mom's claim alone will probably be in the sixty to seventy thousand dollar range right now  house will not be completed until probably the end of february so that's what i have to look forward to and i'm here to let you know that information because i'm talking to that's the other thing in talking with most of the neighbors my mom included it's not anything that will never she was not instructed when the house was sold to her or through any other venue which and i did ask about the fire department if peters township is the one that this in their code and insist that this is in these private residences are there any instructions given for that are there any awareness programs for sprinkler programs sprinkler systems like there are for fire and like the smoke detectors there's such a big awareness program for that but when you have sprinklers there's nothing said about it just got sprinklers and most of the residents i talked to did not even were not aware that they needed to have those systems inspected on a yearly basis my mother did not know that i mean she's only had the house since august but my mom did know that what we did find out too is that the previous owners did have a leak in that same system on the second floor and it was just a small leak it was not a fire department call it was something they took care of themselves so that's the third time in one house that we've had the issue anyway that's what i'm asking for is consider is consideration that we leave the system in place but not have to activate the system and i really i did have one other question because i guess i was getting sort of mixed signals here or mixed i don't know information if it's really a code to have an actual building and additionally if they were because or even were controlled when the state adopted the uniform construction code at that time the township had one opportunity to maintain provisions that exceeded that code address sprinkler systems in single family houses it did it was removed from the back in two thousand and ten our code supersedes the caps so that's where our code comes into play we opted to keep that because that ordinance that at just earlier that ordinance which amended the building code at that time to include insulation wrapped around it and it was put in blown insulation was put blown in over the pipe the problem with the blown insulation so is it separates and if you get one cold spot in that blown insulation and your pipe happens to be there you have a problem the solution as i see it would be to do what they did it evergreen all of the systems down brought did you know that the party apartment did recommend inspections and if they were inspected the inspectors are going to see anything it's visual he's walking across the attic and check piping is as bill said in the insulation that's one of the huge problems we have with that type of insulation blown in insulation will in fact settle also with that if you have overruns whether contractors running through you have cable people you have no telephone people and things run all kinds of cables through there and anybody can get in or disturb that so that's one of the things that we've you know i haven't personally been up there good talking with the deputy he's seen some of the areas that it may take some more insulation could pretty much take care of the issues that are there and the and or freeze system would in fact help out there be one of the things it was mentioned about the car providing use bill said it was permitted by code any of the sprinkler systems in his township are designed by engineers they have to have a nice set level three which is the national institute of certified engineering and technologies these guys have to go through that it's basically a fire protection side they have to design the systems and they know the materials are permitted to put in there so those systems were put in and i will say that they're probably and a township would say two hundred to two hundred of these units have been put in probably by six or eight different contractors so pretty much they have  everything in there so that was something that you know we wanted to address that doubt was you know that was a acceptable material for the insulation there another thing that you know was mention is about the  how many times the farted part was actually there for a fire that was put out by the sprinkler system and that area we have not but we've had in the township commercialise and residentially we actually had a foreign not long ago that the fire was in a laundry room required so i'm that much of a believer in it but the problem ends up being is when they're put in they have to be protected from the elements that anything's going to freeze we had in you know the last the last  incident we had was where the last cold spell we had i think we had like twenty five different incidents with freezing that commercial buildings freezing up you had commercial domestic lines freezing up inside of it inside a heated had seven out of one hundred sixteen incidents up there we had on cove we had three of fourteen incidents there three of which were what residents yes and on anglers way we had percent effective unfortunately you have you do have situations were did you have them freezing up or mr ball you had it you're going to the country club that's been every three years you know that thing goes out you guys keep going in there and really you know put more insulation in to try to condition the space and unfortunately this is the you know the there's some of the homes up in that area are having some problems you know you really got to look at the possibility of what it's a man for isn't it and i think i'm having a difficulty i'm going to talk to the solicitor i'm having a difficult time comprehending are our authorization our ability to do something like that i mean we have a x y and z reasons and i know in those situations that we might have some ability discretion to to modify this but we're talking about something after the fact and i i have a hard time electric service be a certain type and and you know now it's you know twenty years later and they are mean we're not in the house we don't know they're doing that so you're right in this is an issue that we looked at with the manager when he brought this to our attention and i appreciate that the dilemma some of the people find themselves in terms of whether or not it was properly insulated and work properly but this board really doesn't have the ability to give any relief to the applicants they can't come in and ask you to waive a law and right now on your books under your uniform construction code was adopted by the predecessor board this board had nothing to do with it but in one thousand with ninety might  or whenever it was adopted as a manager indicated you had the ability to add that it was added probably at the recommendation of the fire department saying that with these patio homes that's the safest way to do that i don't think anyone's arguing here that it's not a safe fire suppression major there's just this unique circumstance it could happen but the they can't come back in and basically say can you waiver provision of your uniform construction code that was adopted twenty years ago because these homes were built according to that standard i think letter you are going and that was a dilemma that we had to because quite honestly when i talked to mike he said you don't even police the uniform construction code this board doesn't police that that goes to even a separate board in your township but even that i believe has the ability to go after the fact some years and waive that provision arguably you could amend if that provision is not required statewide which i don't know that it is and take it out but i don't know that we give fifteen feet comes in were additional controls or additional fire walls and glass block instruction but that's the way i was reading it but i was wondering whether or not there were some other we were initially with beryl i read that too and i raise the same question because obviously this law wasn't that wasn't their issue in there about those on speer with maria was a and there was a condition on the conditional use approval for that and counsel did granted any constructive there that are more than out the definition for a patio home shall mean a detached single family family dwelling constructed with a minimum six foot clearance separation between any adjacent unit built within a first year and the second year so these bricks were freeze bricks probably because of poor insulation and poor construction both of those breaks cost me a total of about one hundred fifty thousand dollars what cost me surance company however i will say that i decided at that point to put in antifreeze and i chose glycerin i chose a company that hartman had suggested and the total cost was somewhere right around four thousand dollars not just the cost of the glycerin but the cost of the replumbing because you have to have an expansion tank and it's got to be sufficiently large enough to handle the volume of new turf because understand glycerin is a chemical difficult water which is unusual chemical in that it doesn't expand when it freezes it expands when it heats so you really put in the expansion take in for the summer time for the wintertime however that system the suppressive system not with any freeze has maintained it's a without a problem i still worry about it but it's maintained without a problem but i want to give you some other information is long talking about statistics and money every year o are working on trying to get that that resolved so we have probably seventy three facilities all those facilities all have to be monitored on a monthly basis this monitoring is outside of the guardian system that each of us might have in our homes and we have budgeted for the year two thousand and fourteen somewhere around twelve thousand dollars that's just to monitor the situation on top of that each of us has to pay  inspection where they'll come in so we use a company called the preferred fire protection company they charge a sixty five dollars and it's a reduced rate because we have contracted with them to cover our community they will come in every year in june they'll call everybody they'll come down but they don't really test anything what they do is just turn the back over no you know which so that works for officially very very important and secondly they'll test that when the flow starts in the system it will trigger alarm to guardian which then caused the fire department so that's the extent of the inspection it's not an inspection of the piping or the capability of freezing or free so if you add it up it's about twenty thousand dollars a year that our community is charged above and beyond what other communities do not have a fire suppression system or cherished that also doesn't increase doesn't cause  into account the increase insurance as i said i had to breaks a total of one hundred fifty thousand dollars my insurance at the time was running around eleven hundred dollars a year it now runs eight hundred fifty dollars a year so you can argue well it cost i say the hundred fifty thousand dollars you sure it's covered it but it i'm paying it back year by year can i ask a question relate absolutely usually in the beginning with insurance you get a break on things like sprinklers yes smoke detectors so why is there actually a benefit in the beginning somewhere around forty or fifty dollars i mean i would take the i would give that sack easily  that all of the residents feel i mean i hear how instantly as president of the homeowners association the terrible anxiety of i'm leaving my house i'm going to florida we have a lot of snowbirds understand do the demographics of our that in the ordinance in section k it says patio homes shall install fire suppression pursue pression systems in accordance with thirteen d and thirteen or it doesn't williams has been telling you i really dislike these systems i've been a resident as one of the early ones in preston wood and i have no problems with my suppression system except a constant work we leave our house every year for at least a month maybe more two days from now we're going to be gone for two months sop and i'm worried sick about the system malfunctioning and blowing up and having a fracture and i have people coming in once a week to inspected and to look at the house and make sure that there's no water flowing and so on so forth but it's i can't describe to you the concern the constant worry and i'm not a big worry of what i worry about my my how much and i worry about the damage that this stuff can cost when it breaks and and like john said that's my principal concern but the worry the anxiety and we all have that since the cost to comply with this standard is that at least twenty thousand dollars in preston would as well we're sixty five units we have a monitoring fee we have inspection i lunched off john's contractor and we're paying sixty five dollars a unit also it's not a requirement peters township but it's  but whatever and then we had this cost i have at least three hundred dollars probably on average a year because invariably there's a valve that's wrong there's a fitting that needs to be restarted or redone and so on in the it's and i want to make sure it's done i don't want a new lease of the system so so it has to get done on top of that so we're spending twenty one thousand dollars each that's three hundred twenty five dollars a  the basis for this standard and i didn't know we're beyond the state requirements but that's something worth while knowing but but i would ask this board to identify and publish to all of us the cost benefit ratio that underlies this standard surely we didn't just arbitrarily impose this change if just for the fun of it there's got to be some statistics that you either have it or you don't happen you either turn it on you don't turn it on or you do it on a temporary basis i want some x number of months but primarily simply make it it's the individual homeowners option if he has a system installed to operate that system or not thanks will move the search nearer anyone in this section would like to speak oh you've already spoken you get your opportunity again anyone anglers way a couple instances play into effect here on anglers way there was a significant amount of damage in that home what we require is that these homes be monitored and when they are monitored that they call the fire department first party calling the homeowner the home owner that was the way it angers way he was in florida at the time has a long system had gone off when the break had occurred and had called him instead of the fire department prior because of prior instances of cooking false alarms set off by the smoke detector so on and so forth so because of this break occurring and the phone call being made to the homeowner in florida he had his brother check out the problem two hours later the sprinkler systems flow roughly thirteen gallons a minute thirteen gallons a minute at two hours time when you open up the front door there's going to be a significant amount of damage so one instance like angle of weight probably isn't the instance that we want to bring up because of the fact of the sprinkler system had activated it would have called the fire department and we could have been there within five minutes time rather than two hours and reduce that amount of damage significantly so there were there were there were others you know were there are others and the gentleman from preston what the worry in  the constant fear is a good word of being out of town and having one of these systems go off is something that should be resolved by the system being monitored if they're properly monitored as your mother's home once they saw the results of the fire department being there in a very timely manner we estimated somewhere around the sixty eighth minute more by the time the were dispatched and ready to go  a lot of times when we do have the snowboards in these residents these type of homes they go down south and one of the things that they do is reduce the heat in their homes by reducing the heat we're obviously counteracting  insulation that's there and the steps that are meant to be so a lot of it comes with education as well to educate the residents to spend some time with them something to consider in a resale p systems had to be installed and tatty comes is there a similar is there a companion ordinance in the township that if someone does not have an operational sprinkler system for example if there were a fire and there sprinkler system did not operate would they be the oh yes hi mom anyway i want to say hi to my mother she's watching anyway one of the things that the fire department thought up and that was their quick response that's the other thing that i did ask if they have why would we have the need i guess for this type of fire sprinkler suppressant sister fire suppressant system if and i can understand if you live far out need it that response time but their time that they respond is so quick that i don't see where you need that system to be activated you should have that choice to have it activated or not and right now like i said my mom is probably resting more peacefully not because she's not in our house but because the system is not activated can activate it right now and and that's my other question is legally if we have this system it is installed it is there and if we go i had to have guardian monitor everything else and i don't feel that system up what happens to my mother what happens to her what happens to what happens just in the future if she chooses right now the system's off and it has to be shut off so she decides not to follow up with i think if they decide not to turn it back on to leave the system in place and not turn it off i think that was the question asked by one of the councilman in terms of what happens in terms of is it a violation shouldn't have to live in your own house in fear of your house and crop but i think everybody gets that i think the problem you're having taking your conversation to these two is that they suppress far for a living right they see the cost benefit i completely opposite of how you see this because the benefit that they see is to save lives save people and while there is that potential disaster scene convenience they see that as an offset so when you raise those questions i think i can see into  trained to know that these are protective and not russet and basically what they told me when i first talked to them was that the system was put into the system is there to allow the occupants to get out not because i said isn't there for it to just say you know life property limb you know whatever and basically i was told that it is there to suppress the fire so that the occupants can exit and this is in patio homes and i said basically my mom could step out of her window or out and  minutes i had probably thirty two thousand dollars worth of damage so i and again i'm not you know again i'm not i don't want to say anything about like again the life you know the life of someone i'm not comparing that but back to my question so basically if if we chose not to activate that system then at some point somebody would inspect or know that it was not being monitored is that what you're saying at all and mother would be fined or what i just need to know going forward  again that was the same question that we've gone over ok but that's exactly as individuals talked before about how they would monitor how they would make sure that that system is function as required by law and that you have that in place that is a condition of your final walking to permit the fact that your mother can occupy the residence now if they find out that there's no longer fits the arkansas requirement they have the ability to revoke to whether they do i don't know it's not a function of my office but of the inspector's office how they find down for your neighbor's houses and you didn't disclose that fact to you know if you would if you this is closer to your insurance company you know you'd have to pay the claim higher to check with them and that's exactly what they set as long as they are notified if she was negligent and the cause of her fire then caught other people's houses on fire yes if the fire was caused by some other means electrical lightning hit her building and the other house  in terms of going to a fire that has some sprinkler suppression and the reason these particular units are equipped with that is also to protect them so if for some reason they are not notified and they're going into something thinking there is pressure to not there's an issue with their li but what do we do about the lost value because that's the other thing that's what's going to happen within value of the house in this area now well let's hope that this is the suppression system that they're properly insulated that the homeowners can work with everybody to make sure that doesn't there's a uniform construction code board i think you have when you're when you're building the builder has the ability at times to go to that particular panel and ask a waiver of certain requirements if they can show and prove that they have other features that are are making the similar protections and i've not seen it used that often and i'm not sure if you can ever go back retroactively and it's been our curiosity that to can we retroactively change a law that your structures are under typically your builder would have went to the board and said we don't want to put sprinklers in because of some of the reasons and concerns but we've put in additional windows in additional escapes or so maybe i don't want to let a man i know i already talk to her but that that's the recourse this board doesn't have deal with that code that's just going forward not for the ones already people have built them as we have relied on them they were probably built with certain fashion even they discussed before the other conditional use for different properties where the board was concerned about the spacing is going to require by acting on something that they could create a liability to and we also have our fire department testifying they believe these are necessary and they're in place and it's hard for this board to lay down that rule and fulfill their obligation to protect the public health safety welfare albeit all these arbitrary costs no one else is paid just because a board made a bad decision back then and we have higher than the state level requirement in this time i think we're suffering for that now our homes  not attached which most patio homes are attached or there are groups ok too that's what you have done an evergreen we don't have that don't know how the whole of the nearest unit is part of the johns every other one is twenty four or not the uniform construction code board has the ability to the they're the ones that have the ability to grant a waiver for that code section then it would have to come back probably to this board because we'd have to modify i think was part of the site plan approved would mean it's pretty far down the road and i'm not sure retroactively some decade plus or whatever the time period might be is feasible but there is nothing this board can vote on tonight so kate we now take their time is there something we can do in the future again what i looked at and i'm not sure the answer is whether the commercial code board has the ability to give a retroactive wave they have the ability to give a proactive waiver but i'm not sure because it's never really happens well can we look into it since we are in this can and you can in fact i can't prejudge a decision of that board but i mean arguably you can make application to that board whether they would you know how they would go i don't know i think it's the uniform construction  fire department and our manager and look at this whole big picture and see if there are options that we could present to the council to the residents we just don't have enough time to figure this all out i think they've presented such a negative is spent when they do not work is becomes a huge problem and i think the reason they're not working is not just of the systematic to the fact you have a system i can see the fire departments point of view ok i understand that but it should be my right to decide whether i want to have that system this far is ok i'm not getting much benefit of it as john said you're giving fifty dollars maybe less and you that have common property is that correct county home shall mean attach single family dwelling constructed with a minimum six foot clear separation between any adjacent unit built within a condominium project where common ownership of the land exists common ownership of the land correct so that means if we were to take and separate those into separate sections where i to i maintain my own property i would not be a patio home requirements and i'm sure i'm sure they said six four and i'm sure there were talking about when patio homes first started they were these were patio this was just another potential condition put on in different development that was vacated when they moved the further apart again the fire department the professionals in the room as to whether they think it is something that is good or bad that's not what i'm asking and what i'm asking is if i were if we were to go and as a as a homeowner and as a professionals to review the situation to do a little bit more research and come back we'll have another opportunity to address the situation again we're not going to solve it unfortunately tonight  it will we have a very good staff as we all know so let him do their jobs and come back with us and see where we can add this to another direction and so your point well taken if you did all that you're saying i wouldn't be under the legal to go in with thirty five foot front step back as opposed to a fifth as you know or may not know in our zoning ordinance we in section three or four we allow for council to make a decision to allow a thirty five foot and in addition if overall earth disturbance can be significantly reduced shall have the authority to allow a thirty five foot front set back subject to a planning commission recommendation which they did look at this proposal at their january sixteenth meeting did recommend that we go with the thirty five foot setback with the condition that you are with the state plane and include a conservation or tree preservation based on the proposed limits of disturbance utilizing a thirty five foot front set back morning and as you'll see tonight and they're pretty patient they're trying to do something unique here with this property that was one of the reasons why the plane commission did pointed out we do have and as you can see in the picture that had been previously up we have a wooden site here and one of the things that we talked about first and foremost whenever we decided to look at developing this site was how can we do this a little different than everything else and what's what's one of the biggest things that's different within the township that we can do and what we realized was we have this wooded natural resource on the property so when we started laying out the project laying out the property itself we worked with the grades to minimize as much of the impacts in terms of cotton field and we also wanted to prepare a plan that would allow us to really create wooded logs the intent of this is not to go in and clear cut the intent of this is not to go in and cut a giant swath this is just going to stay open for the duration until all the houses are built what we're proposing here is for it's essentially it's a single phase but the erosion control the grading aspect of it will happen in two phases the initial phase of development will cut in the can balance the earth work in that first step the idea being we get the rude way and we get the infrastructure in we create essentially a number of just pads there are going to remain wooden intil the property itself selves and then wall so in as i said with the process of balancing cotton fill we're also going to create a few pads to build some spec houses and start the development  so as lot twelve gets bought purchased we do the earth work for that we also create the pads then for sixteen and seventeen and kind of do that throughout the process again the idea being minimise the disturbance to the areas we've created some conservation easements in that area as well to maintain but then we started looking at the plans in we had discussions with ed in terms of the fifty foot versus the thirty five and we were we decided that we wanted to look at this in terms of both ideas we really want to go with the thirty five again it allows us to pull everything forward and being that this property has some slope to it we've got high side lots and lowside lots now obviously the closer we are to the road the route is basically a balance point so the further i have to go we have to take that house back on the high side lot the more we're cutting the further we got go on the low side the more we're filling so we did two green plants to say plans laid everything out got our limits of disturbance and we established a few numbers and then for the tree removal area the difference in tree removal between a fifty foot setback and a thirty five foot setback is approximately three point three acres on a seventeen plus acre site well in about eighteen percent of the site that we're retaining in trees the limits of grieving we save about we're going from approximately eleven point two five acres to about ten point three so we're just under an acre less in area of grading from a cotton field standpoint by going to a thirty foot we create a condition where our maximum fill slope is two feet lower and our maximum cut is two feet less so we save a little bit of elevation where we're cutting condition sometimes we're chasing down the hill so that that two feet in difference of elevation of film can really be substantial i can point out a lot three in particular i know jewish where we can either have a tree line back here or in the phils look almost comes back down to the road it's not in under will situation but it's not an ideal situation again we're you know the side from your pittsburgh box that's been going in in the township we want to add a lot of green initiatives to this project figured you're going to spend the money on that project you might just muscle have a square footage point that with the minimum grades for roods we couldn't achieve it without a massive amount of cut in we would definitely lose we just end up with a clear cut so to your point about the school bus however we have discussed that and we variance throughout the plan drive it you're also talking about giving people homes that they can design and they can be high end so theoretically by command and i don't really want my house at thirty five feet tree preservation easement right we do have an easement plan that we are preparing with the land of element plan so once we have decision from this evening we will be adding that tree preservation to that so every lot will have a tree preservation easement so for instance just just to throw out an example so we have everything's thirty five foot and somebody says you know what i'd like my  little further back they do have limits to the extent that they can push that house back because of the easement and what they can what the homeowner basically has the decision to do then is to decide to what extent did they want to incur the cost of gaining extra land we've got everything laid out our limit of construction is based on standard construction slopes however we're not talking about huge elevations of cotton field so one thing that a homeowner might have as an option being that they do have this limited area on their property to build in if they want to push their house back a little bit but don't want to lose backyard space what they might do is utilize some kind of a wall system instead or they might choose to upgrade to a wall system maybe a tiered wall system or some kind of an engineering wall that might allow them to prepared i hesitate to say conceptual because it's not very it's not really consider we've created a greeting for each lot based on the roof agreed where the most ideal location for a driveway is going to be and where that building and globe is going to sit based on the setback at the time of home purchase we will be fine tuning every lot for the building permit process and as that occurs that sri easement will be on every page so as we fine tune everything and we show the fine greeting of the house and the actual yard that's to and how the driveway and everything's going to interact at that final step that will be done with that tree preservation easement in place you know the idea that you're describing sounds kind of interesting and exciting and i i if i understand what you're saying is you're going to be as the developer working in concert with the home seller to work with the buyer to describe where elevation work in which placement of garage i mean are you talking about the conversation up front with what the developers doing doesn't always translate to what is actually sold to a homeowner who is then faced with a driveway they can't turn around and you obviously have a lot of space  storm owner manager an area it is very shallow stormwater management has been handled throughout the process or throughout the the site we really made a lot of effort to do a very low impact design the state b m p was in requirements they really are leaning towards this effort to maintain water in small pockets around the site it's a more natural sense of how water you know you look at any site you've got little low spots little pockets here and there where when it rains you might get a six inch depression that fills up with water over you know the next day it drains out your directly introducing that water into the water sure where all is so we've we've made all that effort here so that through this storm water management design process i was able to make this very small it seems large because i've got a small intake area to allow some minor ponding and then a swale that connects allows some increased time of discharge down to the final control area again it's i believe the design has four to one side slopes it's very shallow made to really blend in as much as possible and we are proposing a landscape entrance to the whispering pines is going and i'm a little unclear as to how much of the land you own paid you thought at all about widening that and so that there would be some other way  into the book other plane and the road first of all is a curve coming down hill and i just wonder was there any plan or are you thinking at all about doing anything to try to i mean why haven't we talked about  so subject to any conditions that were placed on  when i agree with what you're saying mr lewis that there's been a number of things proposed in the conference a plan that would challenge us to look outside the box i think if we proceed to give approval to this you would have to appreciate that you're going to be under intense scrutiny as far as how well this actually plays out as well planning and everybody else involved in monitoring how it goes so you know you may be the test case the guinea pigs  handoff relative to signals we have two signals that were we're talking about making modifications on the first one is that macmurray in ninet initially came in from a resident and so we had our engineer look at it and reviewed it with hand art and basically that it is simply switch and the which which side street term the resident came up with this  was probably about eighty percent and as of friday i'm not sure where we're at today and then we had a second five hundred tons of water we started out the week with about seven hundred tons in the two  and then we sold one thousand gallons of salt yes and we probably will be if after this last quarter we probably are very close and i don't know that they're asking us to be part of the class action suit they want to know they're asking us to be able to to use our contract in the building the question of counselors do we want to just accept that or do you would you like us to go out and get multiple proposals from engineering firms resource officer i presume that the contracts being renewed since he's already they or did they want to modify and expanded contract  we can put that under number two which is joint sure duffers sounds good and then not necessarily next agenda but a future agenda shake called has a police initiative for collaboration we're already involved in the star program but there's a new initiative that scoped out that's looking a joint investigation with the collaborated police departments if you could perhaps get the chief to give us a little bit information about that and whether it'll impact the fees we pay or how that m