home good morning the policy and intergovernmental affairs committee will come to order at this time i'd like to ask everyone to please ci and my mind still somewhere else but i'm here this morning physically so give me a break and make sure i get it together before the end of the morning for my district offices let's start with our  and just before we go on we found something that could difficulties with our regular phone so we've been forced to use cell phones and so if it's not coming out real clear and loud please excuse us we're trying our best let's go on to our district office in good morning and also on from our molokai office are you there you before we start i would like to open the floor for testimony we only have one item today and it's called the communication fifteen to five four from counsel chair relating to the state of hawa share of trends accommodation tax revenue as the state the purpose of the resolution is to urge the state to enact legislation providing a counties with their seeing share of changing a comedy tax revenue as the state i would like to begin with taking public testimony at this time that's the money will be limited to decide i'm in this item only if you want to sign up eating in the district offices please do so and let us know we'll be checking with you shortly and anyone in the gallery who wants to sign up please sign up on the at the desk on the eighth floor outside in the lobby testimony would limited just three minutes two and a half minutes the yellow light will go on and three minutes to read light will stop blinking i will then ask you to conclude please state your name and who every you will be representing a step this connection with our county of honolulu council council big island council we are all in agreement and we're all at the state legislature working with the document that was created by the state functioning group that was commissioned by the state legislature to break away and create something different is going to create a lot of controversy at the state legislation already is now this working group worked for two years and it has been a very very good and the membership to what for compromises to be able to work with something that we could present to the state legislature and document what this is is everyone getting together and working together if we break that and we don't present a solid front for the state legislature we're opening up a whole can of worms for us and already the state legislators the senator we were talking to the money committee are talking about instead of the percentage that we're getting now bring it down to nineteen percent using an eighty one thousand formula the the discussion is around a lot of different things because the total budget that the state provides for the counties is eighty one percent and we provide about nineteen percent of the study shows that if we get into this realm of nit picking on the mccalla tease even though the statistics for a specific county may show a better or worse condition and not be unified we're going to have a real challenge is the state legislature this year now that being said when we look at the overall goal of what our county years it's to be able to get most of the projects funded that we need in the county and many of them are state funded bridges roads our hospital even though we do transit transmission transitioning we're still doing a lot a lot on state legislature still has to pay for a lot of it so when you take the total of all the different programs of the state is providing for us and you look at the overall statistics about eighty one percent and i think mostly county gets more than its share judging from all the roads that are being fixed the harbors that are being fixed and a lot of the other things that are going on property acquisitions etc if you upset the apple cart over a small percentage of our income which is a t t versus the overall budget that the state provides for us when what i'd like to do is just say please do not pass this let's go unified at the state legislature let's work to compromise and that's work as a team at the state legislature thank you if you would wait mr mayor the see if there's any question any questions for the mayor himself working functioning group their results and to back them unilaterally again we've had a lot of discussion among ourselves each county could do better or worse depending on the county but as a compromise we're all working together in this and that's the front that we're going to take the position we're all taking that we support the working group ok not that that is of concern to me because you know as a legislator of ourselves when we get opposing viewpoints of people that we think we better pay attention to it makes it very difficult for us to decide and that's exactly what's happening at the state legislature right now we have sitting kind of honolulu council council the big island council all the mirrors the visitors industry we're all working together on the scene push the only group that's not this morricone council is putting up a different number and that's creating confusion at the state legislature did they can take advantage of to say well maybe we shouldn't be working with this working group let's look at some different numbers and our fear is that they'll go to the nineteen percent rather than go where we are right now with the working group which gives us a plus ok thank you very much i have another question b the proposal of the working group eight sec now we this council is taking it different direction or at least some of the members have started on a different direction so i want that corrected saying so the only body that is causing the problem thank you thank you mr mayor at this time i don't see anyone else wishing to testify in the gallery and i don't have any other notices so can we check with our district offices mr wynn require you check with the district offices for me  presentation to preach it mr chair thank you chair and i think it's important to clarify that the the position that this resolution takes is supporting a change in the distribution and increase in the distribution of t h c to the counties but to but to say that there are there's only one idea at the  legislature that it's all going to go in the in the direction of taking care of the working groups recommendation is is really kind of silly because there are as many different things coming up in this legislature as there usually  different positions from the nineteen percent eighty one split to increasing the t h c tax to thirteen percent and giving the counties half the state half there's all kinds of versions going out there so to have a difference of opinion between the mayors and and other councils i don't think is a bad thing because it shows that there are different perspectives  and i think the working group did some great research the challenge that i have with some of their numbers is that they're there including special funds such as highways and  airports harbors etc if you if you just look at general fund items i think the county spend more to support the visitors than than the state does there's also a concern that the from the legislators that the working group didn't look at what they hadn't intended for the working group to look at legislature and so there's at least one other council that is considering supporting the same thing that were part of that i'm presenting today so i'd just like to get through that before we start in the presentation and this says dates back because i had a meeting in december itzhak did support this position so it ended up going with the mayors and that's one i chose not to to support that because i think it's important in some cases that we go down with a unified message but also an additional opinion so the way the way this needs to be looked at is that there is unity at this funny level but i'm coming in and suggesting that a higher number would be fair and is justifiable for the county's so with that the issue here for me is that the revenue in two thousand and nine when the economy turned downwards and the state lost nine point eight percent of its revenues and the t t was increased by the two points over a two year period to help them balance their budget and in two thousand and ten the state revenues began to increase again but remain below two thousand and eight levels and in two thousand and eleven twelve th t t distributions to the county were capped at ninety three million  this time county property values were in significant decline and property tax revenues were eroding to put in perspective the nine percent drop in in our ninety eight percent drop in state revenues was followed in ensue in years by the property values on maui falling by about twenty percent to twenty five percent and that's of course that's our economic base county tax base which is our property values had taken a significant downturn in the years following the economic downturn whereas the state today revenues have rebounded by thirty four point four percent or nearly one point eight billion dollars over two thousand and ten and that's provided them a cumulative increase in revenues from two thousand and ten to fifteen of six point eight billion dollars where the counties today were up eight point eight percent to four hundred twenty two million and property values remain four point five billion dollars lower than in two thousand and ten and the majority of that is in the neighbor islands however the we have lost significant ground from a revenue standpoint so even with the hundred twenty two million dollars again the cumulative revenue over that same five year period to the state generated six point eight billion dollars more the counties collected thirty one point five million percent county remains nineteen point four percent down awake eight point one percent down and co i county seven point six percent down and what has happened with the th t the two percent increase and the caps have the effect of increasing the state's take from eight point three million dollars in two thousand seven to nearly two hundred five million in two thousand and fifteen and that the net result of the caps is that the counties are losing approximately eighty five million dollars annually to put that in perspective in one nine hundred ninety seven when the total t h c collection was one hundred twenty six million one hundred one point three million came to the counties and six point three to the state  by two thousand and seven the t h c collections had grown to two hundred twenty four million and the counties received one hundred one point eight and by two thousand and fifteen with the two percent increase collections had increased to four hundred twenty one million with the county's getting one hundred three and now the state getting two hundred five million and to look at where the state is now the projected revenues projected general fund revenues for fiscal year two thousand and seventeen in the governor's budget are project seven point one billion dollars in general fund revenue that is that represents increases over the prior years of five hundred forty seven million over fiscal year sixteen which is the year we're in now it's an increase of eight hundred twenty five million over fiscal year two thousand and fifteen or thirteen percent increase and a one point so comparing the share increases since two thousand and seven between the state in the county the state has taken one hundred ninety six million and given the counties an increase of two point two million or two point two percent and while the counties have not received a fair share of the t t the cost related to public safety services have gone up significantly for the four police departments fiscal year two thousand and fifteen reflects a ninety three point three million dollar increase over two thousand and seven before fire departments represented sixty four million dollar increase and the four parks apartments to reflect a sixteen million dollar increase over two thousand and seven for a total of one hundred seventy million dollars of added expense to the counties for just these three departments while receiving just a two percent increase or two million dollars more from the state county's got well that's what i just said and who's covering that cost you because by the state not transfer in the share of the visitors  generated tax to the counties the state is requiring the counties to generate that my through residence of each county as opposed to using the t eighty and this is one of kit's graphics to help make the point taxes on lodging establishment that includes sales tax in our case excise tax occupancy tax special district taxes and and so forth the state of hawaii provides nearly the lowest percentage in lodging taxes on all of the receives twenty point four percent the neighbor islands receive seventeen point one percent compared to our peers actually forty eight out of one hundred fifty received twenty five percent or more to put to put it in perspective if you go to disneyland and stand a hotel there's no state tax there's no state excise tax charge and there's no of state lodging tax you pay a twelve percent lodging tax but that's a tax levied by the city of anaheim so the entire tax anywhere you go in california the entire lodging tax so which is hundred fiftieth well it's providence rhode island so i went and looked up the distribution of taxes generated from lodging in the state of rhode island and they have a one percent tax that goes specifically to the to the town in which it's generated then they have a five percent tax on lodging that goes to this but the state turns around and provides of a total of twenty point four million dollars you can see at the bottom they distribute thirty four percent to regional tourism districts not as that's for marketing it provides to the providence warwick convention and visitors bureau ten percent and the rhode island convention center authority one point six percent so they provide a larger share of the of the tax to marketing and service you know the visitors and then the municipalities as you can see receive seven point four million dollars and the state of rhode island receives out of the total tax on lodging three point six million dollars which is less than half or actually the it's a third of what the total is it goes to the same county so the state gets thirty three percent of the share that goes between the two and the county gets sixty seven percent so it's a significant difference between the recommendation for forty five for the counties and fifty five for the state of the working group came and after looking out at the city of warwick which is one of the cities it's on the list there i noticed that they also get a a state aid in the amount of forty two million well the t t is the only state aid that we get coming back to the counties so forty two million dollars is about nineteen almost twenty percent of the total but they collected real property tax so on top of their real property tax from the state they get paid and equal to about twenty percent of their property tax load if that was applied to maui our equivalent would be about forty nine to fifty million  the how much do our peers get in the hundred fifty cities the average tax it goes to municipalities is nine point one five points out of the thirteen point four eight on the right hand side of the sheet on the top and the state gets four point three three in hawaii we get two point two six percent and the state is keeping almost eleven percent eleven points out of the thirteen so current legislation and we're at one hundred three million added to the one hundred eighty two million dollars of g d p that is generated just by lodging establishment how much should the counties get well if if you were to if we were to ask for a fifty percent share of the total t v revenue it would result in a in a two hundred ten million dollar amount going to each county that would increase us to four point six per cent of the thirteen point two five which is still significantly lower than what the remaining peers get across the country the state would end up with three hundred ninety two million if you look at where we would be under the original the pre cap distribution to the counties was forty four point eight percent of the t eighty total so that would have been the one hundred eighty eight million figure that you see there on the left column and the amount that the working group is proposing and these these are all numbers that you see at the top they're all based on so the working group proposal would put us at one hundred thirty eight million based on getting two thousand and fifteen numbers so my position is that at a minimum the county share the t t should be fifty percent of total to eighty collections and state continues to say that you know we they can't give us back an e t a to you without them getting something in return but if we were under the original calculation of the t t which was ninety five percent of the first five percent of  eighty counties share would be two hundred sixteen million dollars now so as partners in hawaii's governance it's our position that the state shouldn't feel like they are giving it away but rather that they're returning it or giving it back to the counties that for which the for which would support us providing essential services to our residents and visitors and again the main point is that by not sharing a visitor generated tax they're forcing us to push off the cost of visitor related services onto our resident tax payers so with that chair i'm happy to take any questions or i don't know whether you want to have the resolution read it in its entirety but i think most of the information that is in the resolution which by the way we've provided a new a new version of the resolution this morning which incorporates the majority of the information that has please urging the legislature to provide the counties with the same share of transience accommodations tax revenue as the state where as since one thousand nine hundred seven the state of hawaii has had a tax upon room revenues derived from transients accommodations returned to the counties under a statutorily the stablished formula and the state retaining five percent for administrative purposes and where as if the distribution to the counties were still based on the same calculation the county share would amount to two hundred sixteen million dollars at current revenue levels and where as the state subsequently diminished the county share of cat cat revenue at various times for multiple purposes such as revenue being redirected to the county convention convention center and the tourism special fund respectively and where as after allocations to the hawaii convention center and the tourism special fund the county share of revenues was adjusted to forty four point eight percent of the total which would amount to one hundred eighty eight million dollars if calculated under current revenues and where as the legislature dramatically re allocated tax revenue beginning in two thousand and nine to help balance the state budget due to the economic downturn and where as the state began the process of increasing the tab arbitrarily capping the county's share to help balance its budget but offered no assistance as the counties also experienced economic hardship in the ensuing years and where as maui counties property values which form the economic base for the county's tax revenue dropped nearly twenty five percent during the economic downturn and where as since nine cents to two thousand and seven the state's tatt revenue increased by one hundred ninety six point six million dollars or two thousand three hundred sixty three percent while the county's tatt revenue increased by only two point two million dollars or two point two percent and whereas during the same period the counties have hundred seventy million dollars in cost increases in fire police and park services and where as a civil beat article entitled should counties get bigger share of hotel tax revenue reported the following on december thirtieth two thousand and fifteen the state has hauled in record amounts of tax revenue over the past few years by limiting the county's allocation without the cap the counties would have seen millions of additional dollars as the tourism industry has grown and where as tax revenue for fiscal year two thousand and sixteen is expected to be about two hundred fifty million dollars and where as the counties use tax revenue to cover  four hundred fifty million you should do all i just want to do is sorry chair where as tax revenue for fiscal year two thousand and sixteen is expected to be about four hundred fifty million dollars and where as the counties use ta revenue to cover a portion of their visitor related expenditures as they bear significant responsibility for providing an array of services and infrastructure necessary to support of vibrant visitor industry and where as the vast in equity in tax revenue distribution between the state and the counties has resulted in the cost of the tourist related expenses being unfairly passed on to county residents and where as according to the two thousand fifteen h v s lodging tax report usa which surveyed one hundred fifty cities counties and special districts thirty five missing municipalities received one hundred percent of revenue from taxes on lodging one hundred  twenty seven receive fifty percent or more and one hundred forty eight receive at least twenty five percent and whereas the four hawaii counties which would rank one hundred fiftieth percent  cent of revenue from taxes on lodging if included in the report and where as the state county functions working group created by act one seventy four two thousand and fourteen to study tax revenue distribution issued its final report in december two thousand and fifteen and where as the working groups final report recommended one about one hundred thirteen million dollars of tax revenue be allocated to four states special purposes the hawaii convention center the tourist tourism special fund the turtle bay conservation easement and the special land development fund and to the remaining cat revenue fifty five percent be allocated to the state and forty five percent shared by the counties without the imposition of an arbitrary cap and where as history and they support a more appropriate and equitable distribution with the state and the counties each getting equal allocations of tap revenue and where as within the when the general excise tax is also taken into account the state currently provides a mere seventeen percent of overall lodging related revenue to the counties and where as the state has adequate resources to make the adjustment because general fund revenues for fiscal year two thousand seventeen are projected to be more than seven point one billion dollars and where as revenues have increased year over year amounting to five hundred forty seven million dollars over fiscal year two thousand and sixteen or eight point three percent eight hundred twenty five million dollars over fiscal year two thousand and fifteen or thirteen point one percent and one point one billion dollars over fiscal year two thousand and fourteen or nineteen point two percent now therefore be it resolved by the county by the council of the county of maui the number one that it recommends the state county functions working group for its research that commands the state county functions working group or its research and deliberations to that it supports a portion of the working groups findings including the elimination of the arbitrary cap on the distribution of transience commendations tax revenue to the counties three that it does not support the recommended distribution in the working groups final report for that it urges the state legislature to enact legislation providing the counties with a fifty percent share of total tax revenue and with the state retaining responsibility to fun the hawaii convention center the tourism special fund the turtle bay conservation easement and the special land development fun out of the state share tatt revenue five that an equal split of cat revenue between the state and the counties would be more consistent with the tax history and purpose more fairness for county taxpayers and promote a viable sustainable it's the stain a bowl visitor industry and six that certified copies of this resolution be transmitted to the honorable david governor state of hawaii the honorable shann s two  three lieutenant governor state of hawaii the honorable ronald the president what a state senator the honorable joseph am suki speaker hawaii state house of representatives members of the hawaii state senate as far as the working group and that's where the change came we were set to go on a similar proposal however a sec decided to go on just the reaction and if you understand how a check works and restore know where if one county does not agree then the whole proposal dies for the sake of keeping continuity and being able to work it through the legislature i voted yes even though i had reservations on it so you all know that i did say yes to the working groups proposal only because it was needed to move it on these are now our proposals which i concur with and i believe another county is looking very diligently as bringing this forward also but at this time this is a proposal being brought forth by and so that just so that we are clear and how this is all working out i don't want misconceptions that we're turning around and changing our mind we never did however the way our system is set up if one no everything dies there at that point so for continuity purposes and giving a chance so that the working group proposal would be brought forward i said yes to the whole proposal at that point in time and as back in december i missed the white was as a united front hasn't always worked that's correct especially when there are so many different so many different various proposals that are floating around in the capital it's important to maybe think about a higher number depending on where you want to end up and is the way i totally agree and just so that the public and the members are clear that how this process has evolved  disappoint i just want that clarification you know it's something difficult at times in which the white knows i've said there at times wanting to not be supportive of something but knowing that once i seen those two to that proposal it all dies and then we have to either rehash it or it week the next year and something to put it to move things along and so with that being said we are going to focus on this resolution today  still confused earlier when i mentioned aids being in support of the groups that work in groups proposal you corrected it and so now i am really confused about what you mean had to do what you had to do even though you like the us yes so it's still incorrect to say that it's camp isn't age sec is in charge is in support of the working groups yes ok so there i just want to be sure because you know i am your alternate and i am really afraid that i get put in this position and i'm not sure what the hell is going on because i'm not privy to all these conversations that are going on well don't know me we say this when i heard you say to they mentioned it it had not been happening and it was not successful and they were very excited about us getting together i think most of us know that ok so we don't have a whole lot of experience in going together and he can tell you that that is a very successful thing because they represent all the counties you know the more options you give legislators to play one group against the other the harder it is and the easier for them to have an excuse and say what you can is couldn't get it together so you know what do you expect us to do so you know i still have that niggling thing about to get going there with too many choices because they can use them against us whereas if we're one we're one but anyway what i'm hearing and i am talking to legislators and i have my relationships with them for many many years and what i'm hearing is if you guys want the t eighty what are you going to do about the chair and when you look at these numbers and i think chair white for bringing these numbers up into our attention you get i can you get outraged because the whole idea is to charge visitors for the use of our services that we have here in the county and while fifty percent is i think is a good compromise because it used to be ninety five percent i understand where all of this is coming from the issue is when you talk to the legislators over there they do bring up the  ged and they also say well you know if you guys don't if you don't like that why don't you know just raise your taxes or if you need the money raise your taxes and they may say well but you money so we don't need to give it to you i don't know how to combat that you know there's nine of us here we go and we talk to the folks but that's nine of us  against the rest of the state essentially we have six reps and three senators and they can push all they want and they've got to get a majority behind them and i don't know how to do that i certainly would be willing to you know put us all in there and talk to as many as we can to say let's let's look at this and let's be a little bit more fair thanks going to have to be in the court of public opinion these numbers have to get out and you know when we start working with numbers and spreadsheets and whatnot it's always really dry and people don't eyes gloss over so we have to figure out a way to get this out to especially the people in the wahoo to put pressure on their of state legislators saying hey look city and county is losing out as well so i'm i'm i like the idea i'm not sure how effective it's going to be but it's better than not sitting around and doing nothing but we have to discuss everything and they keep every time i talk to somebody over there they keep saying well what are you guys doing on the g t what are you guys doing on the g you know they look at us they like to pick and choose as to what we're working on and what we're not working on and i think it's just egregious that they're they're reaping that much benefit from our visitors here on maui and not get giving back so we can keep the roads up and and the parks up especially so it's it's a toss up i like the idea but how effective is it going to be i don't know this county is overly generous to providing the kind of services that is basically outsourced to help make this a healthier community but and this allows the equal opportunity for us to to take care of the needs of our visitors and not having to penalize all of our our that at least on our be have been and yes we want to be i think we're united in the sense by looking at we want our fair share we also thank mr white mention have to pay that percentage all of us whereby t a t is the visitor is contributing to their fair share so that we can provide me for once that we have different perspectives and i think everyone has some valid points that each member made so i appreciate that because there are many ways to look at this rubin you or taxation just or should we just rule over because there seems to be a consensus of doing it one way but for me the test first is some very good work but then again i look at the makeup of the task force and yes judge a cool boy is a person every now and integrity well let's be honest but if you do sherry which is dependent upon a state legislatures appropriate to function so i'm sure the justice had to take into account certain realities of political and fiscal delegation from the state level and i'm sure he was aware of there regarding this though i you know for me members i don't need to look at the g t because i can say to anybody in this state to our sister counties of us that you know that this county has exercised fiscal discipline for decades prescription medications that they were acquired we responded because we had the money to respond from our a fiscal discipline now i'm being told you know just up the counties where in lake you you may responsibility to make sure our base can afford the continued growth and i'm not happy with the projections of state officials on what they expect us from our relation to go to meet their financial numbers help develop greater and more domestic economic development activities and who is the biggest beneficiary of that but the county the state to excise tax increased collections that's th into the state of hawaii you know so for me to cheer and i don't have a problem fighting for our tax base on this issue and doing it alone if we have to but i have faith in our our fellow colleagues on the other counties i watch this see the new numbers and every day we would my colleagues we need to educate and share this move this information accurately and fairly across as many venues as possible because i believe of the residents find out what is truly happening it's not going to be hard for the legislature to make a call because the people will speak up and again you know maybe  subsidize them one more time that is unfair and so for me i'm happy to push just a little are happy to walk but i was because yeah those people would like to get some indication but i think part of their current leanings from their leadership is because of what they are understand the numbers to be and what they understand the history to be and not necessary it's the same story his we know it to be and that is one of the issues like education as you well aware so thank you for any meat but if you gave my comments from this is what i feel very strongly about this county's position and why today we one one point that mr couch made that we got ninety five percent of the tax it's correct to say that we got ninety five percent when the tax was initiated was a total of five percent but it wouldn't be an appropriate to say that we got ninety five we should get ninety five percent of what we you know what we have in revenue today but you know the other thing that i think is is really driving this discussion for me is that  it's clear to me that the state wants to continue to take all the revenues from the revenue increases for the t t and that's clear in a number of ways as a shared in there and the presentation in one nine hundred ninety seven we got one hundred one hundred point three million dollars and we now get one hundred three so over the last eighteen years the state has taken nearly all the increases in t eighty in addition to that the proposed budget for this year shows the for the next ten years the plan is to continue to take all the increase in t generated that's not the working groups position but that is the the governor's budget position so to say that this is you know that we're not dollars a year in t h c we get back less than twenty five million so the purpose of this gen this resolution is simply to push a little harder than the than the working group number is and i think it's important as well because this is the first time that we've had information from other municipalities as to how the botching taxes are shared and we are way way way behind our fears on the mainland and i realize that there are and there are expenses that the state bears in hawaii that are borne by counties across the nation  but i've been doing some additional research and i'm not not prepared to share that at this point but it will be really eye opening as to what some of those realities are and that where maybe not so different as the state legislature would like us to think we are so i would urge everyone to support this resolution just to give us the option of presenting  t another of indian wear the t a t discussion i should have to thank you thank you it's very interesting to listen to the various perspectives in the room when we still cover mention that it is good to have differences but i would like to start out first of all on the united front issue three years ago when there was discussion of eliminating first of all the beach liability we went united down to the legislature and got an extension so i disagree that it doesn't work because it was a united front t got a little different portion but we got more not less but more so united what are you going your own on that still makes a big difference we have  wide organization every well the testing thing like they could have variations have differences sometimes very broad and many times more closely aligned as far as their needs are concerned so that makes it really difficult when you walk in and those gentlemen and ladies down there in that little castle called the state legislature are extremely extremely well versed in divide and conquer is but at the same time there's a lot of division that we can take advantage of at the state legislature as well because there are people that are that are not wanted to do anything they want to keep all the t h d for themselves that's correct so so i'm just trying to make the point that i still believe unity in some of these big issues are very important and that's a this is one of trying to bring across in some of the big issues maybe not every issue but in this case i believe it is let me cover the g t the reason for the half a percent is partly to allow the counties to have this opportunity to tax people but it was also the attorney general's opinion that if you offer  which you're doing a can for the next continuation of the real system you must offer it to all the counties and i did verify that mr white the attorney general did say you must offer it to all counties so being that being said about it and we're one of the few that that's absolutely silent on the issue and my answer to them has been i still don't feel we should tax our local people for services that better serve our visitors  pay their fair share and that's my belief and i'm not changing one in that respect but it is being used as a tool against us and so let's be realistic also the key here is they want to give that directly to transportation doesn't allow us to use it for anything else but transportation for some counties that would be very beneficial and probably for us to a degree but i don't and austere and we've done such a good job the state many times says oh you could do such a good job you don't need any money and that's not fair because we have needs here just as great as any our property values have appreciated and when they appreciate we just don't feel like taxing our people more when they are really in essence they're paying more for the same as they were last year but because of the appreciation we can duction ok so what i want to do at this point i'm going to take a quick break because it's almost ten thirty and i want to give you know that some of this information me and we'll get state wide it i am very very appreciative of the work that archer has done on this it shows the hours and hours and hours that he has spent doing research and i really appreciate that this is really good solid information and it's you know almost irrefutable because it's all there and taken from records so i want to think it works really really hard to get this kind of stuff and i agree that education is really important i'm just sorry that we didn't do a better job of educating our colleagues and we might have a different position going in but that's the way it is is difficult because we're on different things and only get together once a month and you know there's not a whole lot of time to spend because everybody's trying to do the job that they have to do before they go to a second after the great success very difficult but you know one of the things i hear in talking to just seders and i heard it a lot when i went down as chair was in talking to them to kind of look at you and say what do you want us to be the bad guy we don't want to be the bad guy we want you to be big guy and so you come to the state and you simply you do it you raise the taxes and so then we become the bad guys so it's kind of who gets to be the bad guy i think who gets to raise the taxes and so that's a discussion all the time which brings up the idea of the g t and them wanting or giving us the opportunity to raise then we become the bad guys and them and last thing i'm going to say about that is i would like to see us have at least one meeting on it not because i'm in favor of it but i think that it would allow the residents of my economy and the voters an opportunity to come and express their feelings about it and of course as the nine decision makers will decide well we may decide not to take a position but i think that having the opportunity to listen to what our people think about whether it's a good or bad idea would put us in a much more at vintage position than not having any action at all the other thing is you know we can go to the legislature with all of this information and we can go wherever we want with it the problem is leverage do we have to make them do it you know you need some leverage and i don't think we have a whole lot of leverage over the state and yes information is power and i think the more people see this the more people are going to realize that the state is taking a lot more then they should but the question is how do we use this and what kind of leverage do we have to make them pay attention to them over to our information but you know as the morning goes on i have decided and it's been a struggle for me because i have this idea of i'd like to see us all go together and not present options because i think options are used against us but i understand the power of information so i am going to support this out of committee with reservations and i also hope that we will at least have one meeting on the d t to allow our people to talk about it and be able to tell the state yes we did have a meeting and this is what our people thought but this is where we are so cheer and like to think you very much this is not an easy subject whenever we get into money it's always difficult but it's been an exciting morning thank you again we have never strayed from controversy or issues that need to be discussed and i think one of the things i've been very proud in the nine years that we've been here is that we pick up items that are very difficult but  sport of the food discussion the component of expenses because that is one of the arguments why we need reliable sufficient revenues is to take care of our expenses one that unfortunately you know the state has a lot more c d n it should have been my perspective especially on collective bargaining and part of their i would see heart hidden is just because they've put themselves in a corner regarding their own needs to fund their portions of their contracts to meet their own obligations and so you know for me mr chairman as he was brought up at one of the eight s represent the county's best interest as if because to finances from the expense point of view we always seem to in any talk about the revenue say but you know the nine of us have to make hard decisions on the boat revenues in expenses and i just think that we need to keep reminding the state because of their mentality to toured said their four votes on the contrary they basically driving  all the counties requirements for minimum increases in texas just to meet required collective bargaining requirements and so you're sure that it's stats another reason why i feel we need to get our fish because a lot of the decisions we did we have very little input and yet we take the brunt of those requirements including obligations of benefits thank you chip thank you any other comments  base for taxation which is the property values was so significant that we had to be the bad guys for over a period of time by increasing taxes so to say that you know we shy away from increasing taxes is simply not true we've increased the effective tax rates on on real property by about twenty five point eight percent in the last five or six years so we have been the bad guys and as you say we we don't shy away from doing and doing sometimes the hard decisions that come with this job so t always going after what is your fair share in whatever area we were talking about we saw a problem because of the idea of collective bargaining i think we've talked about that on many occasions in this chamber and we want the public to understand it's real difficult when each county has one vote right that's four votes in the state at five we almost lose every time before we even get out of the the  e and it goes for everything because even with the h s t and the department of education it's the same prep process so it becomes a real difficult you know challenge to to be fair when they have all the cards to play it because also difficult because they tend to use and this is something that i want the public to understand the idea of judiciary and our schools will come a can attest to this back in one hundred sixty four when they made these changes our forefathers had had the foresight to understand that the schools and the judiciary in some of the counties could not or would not be able to be supported by the text based at that time and at that time it was really agriculture if i'm correct mr o'connor and yet the to be based in a walk who was not only agriculture but it was visitor industry hospitality industry and the military which is a big chunk that we here in my county don't see because we don't have any military operations in this county or what we have or we have a very and that's one of the issues that sometimes the public feels to understand is that the military is a big big supporter of our tax base they spend a lot of money in this state and without them we would really be in a world of hurt so that's why it's very difficult and sometimes very very important that we support our military not only for what they do and give us all the opportunities we have here to enjoy the freedoms we have but really the tax base that has really helped this state continue to move forward and they're wonderful people a lot of them end up retiring i have a lot of friends that are retired here in my county from the military so all of that being said it's a big picture mr white can attest that we met in a priva with the governor and his representative a number of council members and went over a number of issues about the t t but it brought in itself to the whole picture and i think one of the things that it came across and i'd be wrong you correct me if i'm white that it's time the county and state start to look in certain areas where we need to work as one instead of individually and i think ruled as one of the issues that was brought up you know that right now time it's time we look at everything we do and the governor in his rep said that they'd be more than happy to work with us and bring the legislature in and really let's look at it as an entire new paradigm this is a new age we've got to look to work together and change where we can change put together what we can and i think transportation would be one of the first areas i'd like to look at but there's others but going back to what we today and you know i you know it's kind of like ships off but comes right back it really comes down to the t t and it's very important that we support the idea that what we do here today is really just getting the state to with that being said i can support this resolution i think there's much more work to be done and i hope the public understands that when we do this we're doing this as a united front we're not doing this as just money count this proposal yes this is my way counties proposal but we support our sister counties we all need to start working together whether it's collective bargaining whether it's the ability to invest our money switch has brought up a number of times in the counties the opportunity to invest way they feel more apt to get returns better suited for them as to keep us safe profile you know something that a foldable of investments is safe so there's a number of issues that we need to continue to deal with but today i'd like to make my recommendation and my recommendation is urging i like  you find things such as the convention center you find things like they're special fun and they're that you know it's things that make me it makes me question the wisdom of our state though i cannot even recall a year where the convention center came close to breakin even and and i hope i'm wrong but in my recollection cannot remember that facility briefed me and so from a business perspective comes a point where do we want to keep paying for something that needs to be subsidized on an annual basis or do something else with the property and put your our investment where we may feel has a better return such as a little stadium and the of that area to have infrastructure green vestment if the government is serious about developing a lava as part of his corrections direction but also the need then to beef up the big money for that will be made of which we just have that easement questions why are we spending that kind of money for those things move could have put it in our hospitals health care and our schools  so i bring that up sharing that you know we need to also question the state on some of their decisions and the justification of why they feel the need to t t to pay for all these white elephants that keep taxpayers and that producing the outcomes that we expect because one thing i know and you know people i'm not satisfied with status quo it's not good enough that's what i get it ain't good enough as our challenge is to make it better without breaking the bank and that is something i can look and be supportive of this this morning thank you think it was  come i want to say that you know you have to be correct why couldn't they have done like what we what they did it leave poor point bye bye and we're thankful for the state's effort that forty million dollars did get us that two hundred plus acres which now is on the d l and are in they still working on that i know that's off the subject again but it relates to ma we because it's a land that we could utilize given control and that's another thing a number of legislators have told me to my face is that in many cases they would prefer the county taking care of some of these issues all i'm asking them is make sure the revenue comes with it we don't just want the opportunity to take care we'd like to have the revenues that are derived from that or that we can produce revenue off of it so that's one of the other issues that i hear a lot at the legislature that they feel confident that their counties can do a better job that sometimes if state agencies however i want to make sure funding no more unfunded mandates that's that's a killer i mean we've had that for so many years let's not have unfunded mandates give us the responsibility but give us some tax revenue or give us the ability to raise revenue to support that issue with that particular piece of property or whatever with discussing here so like yo yos are classic example from that point b of the on the heritage that those numbers to at least the other councils so they can educate their population as to what's really going on that is a huge thing and if we can get that if we can encourage that education that might be able to turn the tide you know it's the whole thing but if i flaps and swing somewhere eventually there's going to be a hurricane somewhere down the line we've got to start now and get that you know that wind blowing and get the numbers out there and so that they can put pressure on their state legislatures because that's where it's going to happen and it is especially city and county they've got to put pressure on their own legislators because that's where they all are so hopefully we can work on some sort of education so thank you chair way of bringing this up i believe this will go to the rest of the consuls after this in fact someone who have received very to coach you know but the key here is we got to start the ball here and in let it let the ball start rolling unless we take the first step but journey cannot begin so with that being said so i want to thank all of you mr what you have to be actually like to have to thank you and to members thank you and again we've never shied away from taking on the issues that need to be taking on and at this time i would like to see thank you to all and i hope that you know up close with this note i hope the bronco nation is very happy and to carolina there's always next year but that being said this meaning of the policy and into government affairs committee