are pretty much i think the case is fairly much brief i don't have a whole lot to add to what is in the briefs i had trouble finding what the what makes the  i agree that under the jurors if it's excusable basically you get a break on the deadline and predicate set up court because of as well you could have checked but you are first of all if you if you look at the record there's nothing in the record if you look at everything that the appellee indicates he did there was no real good the first time that even a poem of knowledge of which there's no proof of service nothing in the record was july i mean june the seventh which used at least eleven or twelve days after the int time had expired so in other words the court mailed out the notice of entry judgment on may twenty sixth which was the fourteenth day after the court energising that the defendant pelly i should say any case the first time he actually claimed he gave me notice which he says he mailed and i don't say he didn't mail i say it was my office didn't receive it was eleven days after that didn't consider any work done by anyone else everyone else that did work in this case got paid it's interesting that my office was even receiving notices from the court and from their fans are regular basis up until december tenth after that nothing else sent to my office now bottom line is you know if we ignore the shaft and examine the grain with this court stated the last time this case was here then and if we get down to what what's real bottom line is the work with the notice was late nothing came in was until after the deadline had passed t he did say that but there's no he didn't he never mentioned anything about there being a settlement he never mentioned anything about there being an entry of judgment or and sat on may seventeenth he couldn't have said that to explanation of why what problem is that we had different mailman our mail would go across the street to how the authority and vice versa or it just wasn't coming our regular basis and we just didn't get it all the time we didn't get that piece of mail further on  as noticed there was no notice if not of those you look at the record there's no counsel says that he did this or e mailed me that affects me that there's no proof of service about him on this fax there's a cover sheet that has the printout from the he gave me his billing statements if you want to get these to me the information then the judge says that's enough so it was reasonable check the docket to see  mean i think that there is one rule requires the judgment to be served upon you well no rule specifically requires it but that's one of the things that whether or not i receive that can we take the consideration it's a nine days later is when you should have received a notice that the notice would have been mailed good morning renee well i think you hit on a key issue i'm not sure at this point whether mr taylor is denying having received the five seventeen facts for which there's a make a couple things simpler force there's a procedure we have an alaskan i don't know if there's anything like this in california you tell me that you filed something in the case giving notice that you have a wino on the basis you have something like that here actually familiar with the exact procedure for filing a lien and obviously that creates contractual rights that mr taylor has and i do want to turn to that point because in fact what we're doing here is we're dancing around an elephant there's an elephant in this room that elephant is that mr taylor represented to the court in seeking to enlarge time i didn't know i didn't know well in fact he did know well know what he knew that the case was wrapping up as far as i can tell you don't have evidence in the record to show oldest of the entry of judgment was served on taylor on such and such a date and he failed to file within fourteen days of that day so what mr taylor did no you're on you're correct he didn't have  taking his word he didn't have a notice of entry of judgment in his hand because it didn't arrive by the mail now mr taylor has gone to great lengths to meeting half of the dozen decorations saying my name i don't mind i don't never arrives i never get my mail i know  anybody's going to believe that your mail never arise but i don't think anyone's going to believe that your mail always arrives properly either i invite the court to look at the declaration said mr taylor submitted which which state that among other things this was all well known problem all kinds of actions ha been taken to address that oftentimes the mail was dropping personal mail at home there's not a week that goes by that i don't write missed the livered on a couple letters and drop them back in the outgoing mail and  which i assume it is then is it reasonable for mr taylor to set knowing as of with the date he filed his lien march twenty second the case is settling as of may thirteenth the date that mr storch and tells him the case is settling we're doing the fees thing if you want to get your fees you need to submit and let me tell you the city doesn't want to pay your fees ok so between march twenty second when he clearly don't was that there has been a settlement congress he goes to great lengths to say to the court i haven't been receiving service the district court made a mistake and took me off group a service list so i don't know what's going on or did did did mr rolnick know on may seventeenth that the judgment had been  did not because if it had not been mailed out by the clerk at that point i thought the judgment was entered without without principal counsel knowing correct it's not until they got to take till they got alerted and that was mailed on may twenty sixth or got maybe got mailed on the twenty seventh or twentieth or twenty ninth right here and so what happens here is mr taylor knows on march twenty second that there's been a settlement conference that there is a settlement in the works  by he takes no action for seven weeks other than following the notice of lien on may twenty second march twenty second then on may thirteenth mr sorkin tells him we're standing the case we're doing up our forty you just said that he did steadily he does nothing for seven weeks other than file the notice of link on may thirteenth mr sorkin says the case is settling we're doing fees you'll be intitled the fees if you submit them you should know that the city is opposing that you're not hitting on exactly what bothers me what bothers me is the notion that a lawyer should come in every morning and call over to the courthouse and prevail upon it clerk go pick out the docket sheet for a particular case and tell tell him whether judgment is entered that seems like an unreasonable burden since case i would agree with that your honor if those were the facts before us that mr mr taylor had had omitted to make a call one morning basis settle all the time without judgment being entered the difficult way that they settle as a yet stipulation for dismissal correct your honor although if that were the case none of these discussions could have occurred how could there have been a discussion between mr disorder that when i was in practice we hardly ever settled cases with entry of judgment we usually settle them stipulations for dismissal and we always tried to deal with counsel and replaced counsel in working out the terms of the dismissal the discussions that mr taylor himself relates relate to  a duty that the city would have to pay him fees the letter from mr rolnick on may seventeenth says if you want your fees were we're doing a process the process that's being described there is cleve have filed for his fee at that time with his motion have been denied because it was on right there being no judgment as yet he would have had to seek in and large amount of time based on excusable neglect and under those facts i mean if he had filed for his fees if he had a motion for attorney's fees when he was given notice that the case was settling with a motion have been denied because it was surely no there was no judgment yet it depends which time you're talking about he was he was you better get this to me immediately because time is running we're on the clock or it's important was really not to get it to where i am a lawyer who was saying you better get it to me what was important was to file a motion in court  he had a meeting confer first on a local rule he never met and confer he had a meeting confer under the northern district local rules there will be to meet and confer sessions to review that never happened he never responded after may thirteenth he does nothing  for three weeks until june seventh this is this is not a situation where he didn't pick up the phone on tuesday morning and call the court to see if the order had and the judgment had entered on monday this is a case where we're talking about seven weeks between march twenty second and may thirteenth we're talking about no action again for three weeks until june seventh no action for three weeks again until june twenty eighth when his when mr stuart again calls him and says hey there's a judgment and then and city certainly didn't have a great deal of motivation to have mr taylor file these this request for fees on time and mr starke it might well have thought that there wasn't great motivation on his part as  for providing him with notice i could see that in the abstract mr taylor testifies in his own declaration that mr sorkin tells him on may thirteenth you better get on your stick because the city doesn't want to give you fees obviously they're not going to want to give you free money that they're willing to pay your costs by the way but they are going to dispute having to pay your fees so mr sorkin is actually very cooperative mr sorkin takes additional action to make sure the gets taken care of it's mr taylor who disappears from sight maybe he thinks his lean protects his rights i don't know i will say that the standard under alaska pipeline is not is not one of sitting back and waiting for your mail to c it's that once the clerk has entered judgment you we have a duty of diligence to find out what does diligence mean i agree with your honor that it doesn't mean repeatedly checking doing everything within one's power but it certainly means more than this and i will point out that in terms of the application of the equitable factors looking at the motion that mr taylor ultimately files he misstates the legal standard to the court he says this is about not receiving mail  myth a whole bunch of declarations about not receiving that it's not about not receiving mail it's about what date judgment was entered he pretends or maybe hadn't researched will fifty four but he pretends that's not even the issue in wa entering the judgment mr taylor never presented his fees his costs they come in afterwards there are enormous which which is in the record so i guess i can say that pretty this isn't the size of the fee the judge wants to decide whether to consider the fee would then consider how much but if the city had known that mr taylor was going to submit fees of this amount perhaps it wouldn't even have have gone through the settlement process there is prejudice there but i will say that prejudice is only one of the think there's a clear duty i think that the standard of reasonable diligence is a standard that applies here i don't think he met that standard i don't think there's a clear ear or error in judge james this decision and i don't think that judge jenkins abused his discretion in making the finding he made judge james specifically cites the factors and goes through them and makes her finding and judge jane can see goes through them again and makes his finding and i said simply i think that that is clearly within his own discretion thank you specifically he didn't do that the work was done by my office the time was extended for the councils to work this out and back they didn't work out their attorney's fees until after i had submitted my court the real reason for the court is that makes make the parties whole i'm just here to get done for the work that i did i'm not trying to get anything go no one's prejudiced scouse that there is no prejudice there i didn't get noticed delay and i think fairness would say