good morning the meeting of the policy intergovernmental affairs committee will now come to order before we get started i would like to ask everyone to turn their cell phones off or put it on silent there  be carry forward in the chamber and thank you because i'm reminding myself right now to turn off key and there we go ok thank you very much for your cooperation i'd like to introduce the that's a question but congratulations and thank you for being back and i hope every you get a speedy recovery because i know how it is to be a little disabled to our lovely young lady from  arrive from the administration first cooperation council mystic good morning our invaluable staff miss came william brink our legislative analysts and our wonderful committee secretary we'll check with our district offices to make sure they're all connected because we were having some technical problems dysmorphia and that's why we were a little bit late we started at nine or four from our own office don no no dawn good morning are you there closely there's a couple that are not on the exact side that is on the mall we call to yen and we will discuss both separately and as we go if i think we cover an area we're well in one area i mean one like in the eight sec package when we come over to my we if we got to discuss it again i'd like to try to limit dad because i think we should cover it all under one package so i just want to make sure we get that clear has hired someone to do public relations for us and this is practice meeting is so important because on our september twenty sixth two thousand and sixteen executive committee we are hoping to form we need what i call our aid package for this upcoming legislative that are different we will discuss them well and more then those that are very similar or identical find me we have a lot to get through today so i would like to get started with public testimony if there is no objections thank you very much again public testimony will be limited to the agenda items to be so please state clearly which and then engender item that you are referring to you will be limited to three minutes two and a half minutes they like the yellow light will come on and at the three minute mark the red light will start blinking i will ask you at that point to conclude one final statement and the final statement is no longer than two sentences while i ask you also to state your name and organization that you are representing so we will start with those that are signed up in the chamber for testimony this will require you on the first testifier in the chamber and who is right after that person good morning i'm testifying on a three two and the reason i'm testifying is the dollar amount that we are proposing to create a tax on is really too low at seven hundred thousand dollars for a home you're talking about actually a very modest home here in hawaii  you're talking about as far as properties on this island that are seven hundred thousand dollars or less are in all of maui county for that matter you're talking about one hundred ninety five homes in this entire county right now and while one percent might not seem like a very not not homes total homes that are for sale they're currently for sale so while one percent might not seem like a big deal i think you need to actually consider raising that dollar amount and doing it on more expensive homes luxury homes that the people that actually live and work here aren't going to be able to purchase not that a seven hundred thousand dollar home is easy to purchase by any means but i think that we need to reconsider that amount  applied early cochrane on trying to create more funds for affordable housing here but i think we need to look at that a little more closely  i think the real thing that we need to consider here is not so much the affordable housing but people not being able to afford housing and that's a more of a matter of income levels and i think a lot of that passage do with underemployment by people and that's a matter of legislation that's currently out there you've got a lot of people that have to work two or three part time jobs because currently there is legislation on the books that does not make it conducive for employers to hire people full time and give them a livable wage you'll see that in both legislation whereas people that would like to own restaurants have to have food food trucks instead of having restaurants you see that with people having to  you know maybe their schoolteacher by day they're cleaning vacation rentals in their spare time and i think they were put in a band aid on something that's really a bigger problem being here i'm curious if you feel that the seven hundred is too low what do you think is appropriate my personal opinion would be good if you're going to levy a tax like this that it needs to discourage people that are coming from the mainland that are buying homes that we would prefer our residents to own and so it needs to be considered a luxury i mean so that might be two million dollars maybe it's five million dollars out you know that exact amount but that's something that we need to look at if you look at places like bermuda for example there are homes there where they tax people coming from the outside at a much higher amount than the local populace and allows people that live there to buy a home for two or three hundred thousand dollars where someone coming there for the tax breaks and as a tax haven to own a home are going to pay five million dollars so you know we need to put our people first and this isn't doing it we totally agree with you thank you thank you for your i've always felt that the state law misconstrued the councils of county councils as administrators boards and treats them like a ministry of boards when they should be treated like legislatures and giving the capacities the reason resolve that issue until you get to that i find what's important for the first step is to then find the important to go and sin state constitution requires that and it's like since like seventy eight i has kind of gotten resistant to this whole idea of you can this go to the command's tax every time the last time this was really seriously push was about two years ago with a lobby of a commission and they made a real attempt to use new conveyance tax as well and has legs and if it's got the right coalition underneath of it it will actually get somewheres and it really will have an impact on housing because the one place where government needs to really have an impact on housing is to get out of the way and this is one of those bills where you get  ahead michael good morning to victory no and a committee members mike doran for the key a community association first we'd like to commend the council for allowing citizens access to all the background out on line much beyond the basic agenda this really reduces the challenges for unpaid volunteers to or for informed testimony big help to everybody and we really appreciate that on the two items this morning overall we believe this package these packages of legislature requests offered by our county legislators to our state ones have merit and while it is our understanding or you can do is make a request as the decision is made by them as volunteer community advocates we believe there is value in offering import to decision makers that's why we appear at this podium so often so this morning we're only going we dress just one item and that item ten which is appears nearly verbatim in both both items the regional district boundary amendment our concern is that mass land you larry land use changes to often lead to poor planing decisions which may or for entitlements to large landowners we do not believe it is an overstatement to say our area was poorly planned or is one professional point of phrase unplanned a portion of this was caused by taking segment in areas with vastly very characteristics in topography and infrastructure access ignored and simply zoned for the sake of expedienc one result of this manner of so called planning was filling in building in wetlands thus when heavy rain storms in cooler cause cause so and debris field mass surges of water to rush down our cultures without the natural filtering system to hole in cleanse the water the chi is inundated with this mess turn turning brown and choking our remaining coral reef system further we believe this proposal would weaken if approved as it is by the state ledge the decision making of the state land use commission k c a still strongly recalls it was this commission which halted a poorly planned and seemingly illegal huge commercial development by a mainland developer which was strongly appointed by the king supported by the county in mr in straight county administration preventing what now appears would have potentially been a catastrophic build out of a wrong project in a wrong location the way i read the changes that are requested says that if we count he came up with a general plan we have urban growth boundaries where we say this is where we have planned urban growth that it makes sense to say ok eliminate that layer of bureaucracy because the council and the county and the community of all said this is where we want to urban growth boundaries so you're saying that you still don't want that level removed sic something that have the spate over turns what the community in the council wants well it's always difficult to say why what does the community want i know we've run into that you know it's like one who says you speak for the community well everybody else wants to step up and help us we're all in tears so it's very difficult to say just different segments of the community we try and look at the environmental issues and we see the big challenges that we face and that's our fear that taking a great big chunk of land and saying it's ok to do this it's sure it's tedious to go through them one by one but we feel that's the better of the two decision to have to be made ok thank you chair if you any other questions for the testifier seen on you at this time i'd like to check with the district offices before we  thank you ladies let's proceed in the chamber mr william brinkley's yes thank you chair the next person signed up to testify is albert pres albert will be followed by lucien to me this testimony was pretty he's thrown together based on what i could see i would like to say that first of all that we are in support of the proposed bill allocating two hundred fifty thousand dollars to the counties to identify important eggplants we've seen on a walk through the loss of some of the most prime agricultural lands the whole pili encouraged developments and this proposed funding will help the same thing to be avoidable here on maui i also wanted to testify in support of inclusion of a bill to increase  revenue for each county's affordable housing fund through a one percent conveyance tax a lot of the comments that i hear when it comes to affordable housing assumes that the market is going to be our our savior and i think that the market is actually proving that it's not if we look at our current affordable housing policy one out of four homes that the market provides is required to be quote unquote affordable and only half of those are actually affordable for people who make normal amounts of money so we're talking about one out of eight i think that this this type of a bill that would allow the some of that conveyance tax to go into affordable housing would allow the county to take the bull by the horns and start producing its own affordable housing i don't think we can rely on the market the market is producing really expensive homes and while they are not for local people so the other thing that i wanted to talk about was the there's a bill having to do it a land use commission and this actually goes up it goes into two different items one is allowing the counties to petition the state land use commission for regional district months after adoption of general plan updates this is a slight revision the previous house bill twenty six seventeen was requiring that the general plan  go be submitted to the land use commission the counties sorry the land use commission is already strapped to deal with the number of cases that it gets if they start having to deal with all the general plan amendments from all the counties they're not going be able to put the amount of time that they need to to represent the state interests they have some constitutional and statutory duties to represent the state and they would be unable to do enough detail because of the sheer volume also there are elements of the general plans of the counties that consist of policy statements that are not express in land use maps and it would be inappropriate for the land use commission to be put in the position of having the ability to be county policy statements and their deliberations and this goes back to i think the assumption behind this portion of the bill is that the market if we just get the government out of the way the market is going to solve the problem i have big to differ i think that if we would throw the barn doors open and just let the market work we have all these people coming here from all over the place who have way more money than our people do and we need to we need to look at some non market solutions because otherwise the current exodus of working families is going to  continue a second portion of that proposed amendment would provide the land use commission with other options besides just changing the designation back to what it was before in case there isn't compliance  this is something that we would support reverting back to the previous land use may not always be the most appropriate mechanism for addressing violations but there needs to be something right now the land  commission basically isn't enforcing it's leaving it up to the county and the county depending on the administration may take it seriously or not so i believe that this proposed amendment offers a solution an charlie chair committee chair and committee members i'm in a and i'm testifying as a private individual today but i have to say for folks listening at home what we're talking about today is a legislative package that the counties each county sends over to the legislature and every year the counties all try to come up with some common things they can get behind and hopefully some of these bills will pass and these are supposed to be the best ideas that are coming from our counties well this is a wonderful process i want to address a couple of things today in specific number one the bill that a lot the portion that a lot of people are talking about which is number ten on your on your list and that is the idea that once we have a community plan or a general plan that has been approved of course it is then just the next step we should just save time and allow the land use commission which normally looks at a case by case over whether this was a good idea to approve these projects for urbanisation we just have them do like a regional view and kind of take a stab at just changing everything once because that will save time for developers i have to say i was the n g o s appointed representative to a state task force for a year and a half on improving the land use commission i represented all the non governmental agencies in the six organizations in the state of hawaii i was a vote of one i was usually out voted but this was one of the key proposals that was brought up and the reason it was brought up was for all those good reasons mr couch mentioned that gee we've already made these decisions everyone's agreed and so we should just move forward and save time and support affordable housing and make everything efficient well that would be great if the decisions that were made in the general plan were really sound planning decisions but i think many of us that served on the general plan advisory committee the planning commission and reviewed these things know that when they get to the rubber meets the road at the cons these big planning decisions what's in the urban what's not in the urban are political decisions they're not planning decisions in fact i can tell you that if you look at the matrix at the planning department prepared to guide the planning commission an back and said if with development meets these criteria it is the right place to urbanize there were places that didn't meet that at all that are in our urban growth boundaries right now and we're we're never even discussed by jeep or the planning commission so to say that these places now have been vetted and so that they should be automatically reclassified as urban land with without an in depth second look at the land use commission that really is not a sound idea and i hope people at home will understand what i'm talking about because the way of having two layers of things just like having two bodies in the legislature is you get that second look which is part of our democracy and maybe it takes a little bit longer but it's an important part especially when there's so much pressure to make political decisions when these plans are finally adopted and  you know the this has been in the in the package for years and years i mean but the reality of it is that it is not really based on sound planning and lots of bad things happen when you don't get that second look and realize that is there any can you conclude please yes i can that is you that this is a process that needs careful consideration thank you thank you questions for the testifier see none thank you very much good morning counsel my name's lawrence concho speaking on behalf of myself i'm going to be speaking to item number nine the conveyance tax i've been a broker for sixteen years  i've lobbied at the capitol for years now on conveyance tax we at the real realtors association of maui have been studying affordable housing for about four years now so i kind of feel like i'm an expert in this particular item to me i would look at this first of all just i'll go on the record by saying i'm against this particular proposal i think that just throwing money at something isn't necessarily the  answer according to the charter the county sets aside two percent of the budget for horrible housing if i do some rough math that's fourteen to fifteen million dollars a year that we've already set aside for affordable housing how well are we using that particular money right  the conveyance tax is kind of looked at as this cash cow of like going it sounds really nice to say hey listen let's tax these mainland peep bowl to put affordable housing for for our local residents but unfortunately that's not necessarily how this works tax if you look at the seven hundred thousand dollar mark if you do just basic rough math at today's interest rates that's about twenty eight hundred dollars a month that's what rent is for a three or four bedroom house on maui to think this is some rich person's house it just doesn't fly that's not you know the math doesn't doesn't make it so you know that's that's one aspect of this also just the logistics of it the conveyance tax is actually pa by the seller this proposal has this particular piece being paid by the buyer so even logistically that's kind of a challenge  sorry it is as a couple other people said you know it is monday here after a long weekend of kind of what is tuesday isn't it sorry see that's how far off i am also the other part too is to call this temporary there's no such thing as a temporary tax the conveyance act itself was originally supposed to be a temporary tax and it's now you know we're now with it years and years later so anyways i just think there's some fatal flaws to the premise behind it even though it's very well say fourteen to fifteen million is generated here and now we can see from our affordable housing fund that i just you and i how did you come to that if we have a seven hundred thousand dollar budget seven hundred million dollars budget two percent is property what you call certified amount that is so let's say it's two hundred million dollars and the two percent would come up with the two hundred million and whatever the amount is of the sort of fight tax is what we do right  is a seven hundred thousand dollars house with ten percent down it should about six hundred thirty thousand dollars of mortgage at three and a half percent is between twenty and twenty nine hundred dollars a month ok but that doesn't have a specific relationship to the one percent well seven hundred thousand dollars is that where it starts right that's because of her saying seven hundred thousand dollars is rich mainland people coming in i'm just trying to say wait is seven hundred thousand dollars local people or not and even when i go to the residential home this what is the study that was done with which the realtors so say she actually gave you know we gave the money or the  stats for that is it feels as though the seven hundred thousand dollars number of a sort of arbitrarily picked it's more like the median or the average home price it's actually higher than that if you take the entire state  so is to say in my mind that you know the proposal is seven hundred thousand so i said ok all right how much is a home worth or how much does it cost somebody you know that to me twenty hundred dollars a month is that's the fireman that's the you know nurse that's the bartender that's the local person ok so though you're not making this direct relationship between the the one percent cost and the total mortgage no no no  ok no i mean that's that's the total cost that's going to raise the total cost of purchase but i'm just trying to say ok in my mind i was saying like ok who is it that can afford seven hundred thousand our house it's like well if you have two income family which is what most of us are that's unfortunately you know i mean it's just above what the gap is in affordable housing you know the tonight six unfortunately it's almost almost affordable thank you thank you and the other questions with this the fire morning everybody rosemary robinson concerned citizen heard from a lot of concerns that dozens over the weekend that three and a half days off gave us a chance to be out there more than we ordinarily would be and he brings me this morning to dry to your attention what happened on sunday morning when people or at home but the sun was out some thank god we were no longer around in that weather threat and the maui news had a thought for today don't leave inference is to be drawn when evidence can be produced and part of what lucianne was just talking about she mentioned that we need to be aware of political motives rather than necessarily good government motives that motivate people to say what they're going to say so thank you for having said that i certainly and to us that was the end and i certainly endorse what our newspaper is telling us where's the evidence because if people are going to just say things without being able to back it up something's wrong with that system that we just cover that we had documents that were left for a quarter of a century with no signatures on them where was the showing of that meeting ever having taken place you couldn't answer that when people were asking so it's a valid question i'm sure and i would like to draw your attention to page of today's agenda item eight and it's a recommendation for including in the legislative package from heading over to the state to allow persons with disabilities to indicate their identification cards what they are disability is people are going to want to know does that mean allow or  so the verb in there is allow you might want to have not must put in parentheses afterwards so that's going to be in the record because there are people who are afraid their health issues being page five also that same issue in the item is on twelve and i don't know anybody who isn't in favor and the public at large in having greater sun in the sunshine we've heard that for so long in the way this one is written it says a bill actually leading to community meetings i certainly would be in favor and i think so would a bot of people be in favor of having our county council members being able to be there to attend and that's the group that this is written in  see you out there in attendance making sure that this is not a case of speaking which quickly becomes a politic so you might want to take a look at that verb and they are and make sure word allow and must i was just trying to follow there are people who receive a diagnosis where even their families don't know about it they don't want t have to be in a record right so certainly in terms of its effect but maybe effectively not shared a room so to watch the marriage that goes in and that  to allow that yeah but not for the whole world to know ok so thank you so in i guess in just that you are in favor of the current language then to allow writing it doesn't applaud you for bringing several of these items forth there are a number of very very good ideas on your agenda and i would just meet quickly indorse a number of them as being very very progressive and  greenidge issues of or traffic or whatever it is and we have speakers it hold most as what allows in a cetera and it's wonderful when we see council members in the audience there just to learn and i would hope that the state legislature will allow you to it would seem that this time and to be a violation of such a law would allow you to attend those means you're not decision makers you're not even discussing the idea you're listening and learning from the community which is exactly the role the council members should have and so i hope that you forcefully try to press that on each of the legislators and lobby along with your colleagues in the other islands to get that  but there's one item on the agenda that i would like to speak against each of the agendas that i would like to speak against and that's that number ten regarding the interaction between the county and the state lead use commission this is one of the most dangerous piece of legislation if it were not acted and i strongly urge you to drop this from both of the two agendas because i think it has some implications that are very very serious let me go through some of these as you know i broadly stating do the general plan the german plan is never an item that's not in transition we always have new community plans being developed we had the plan that took as we know almost a decade from the time it was developed by the  try to get to it what stage is the general plan going to go to the state land use commission at the end of each community plan just pick a date of can we have things in our community plans in our general plans there are more than twenty years old they were approved in community plans twenty years ago and they may not be relevant today if they were to go forth the state land use commission it would be very awkward for them to start approving wholesale things that really probably if we looked at it today we would not want to we would not want them to be given entitlements one of the problems with the whole entitlement process is that once they given you can take them away and you know that you had problems you said you know we titled something twenty years ago with that's not the best thing now there's another developer has come along compl allows you know this or that let me give one example of something that's in a community plan that we all agreed should be the and that's the area that spencer pushed for theory that everybody agreed the whe plan it was never once spoken of really favorably except by maybe the landowner your council did not approve it it's still in the community plan that's part of our general plan and it would go to the legislature got to go to the state land use commission as a as something though it's in our community as a general plan and it might get passed even though i think the council the planning commission the plain department certainly is not in favor of it so we have to be very careful that we give this broad brush approach of sending things to the state land use commission this is the quote this is the question of timing what stage would it go forth another thing conditions the conditions that we put on each time a developer goes to the state land use commission once recommended by the council and over the planning commission and by the department staff and it's looked at very carefully and these are sometimes very large parcels like a y a y ali for example or a bully who or some of the other big ones are out there and we put conditions on that because that particular demands conditions well that's not in our community plans necessarily it's not in the general plan but it might be very specific to that particular project i would hate the state land use commission to giving blanket urbanisation a rural classification to a piece of land it should have very parcel and it's a very effective way of making sure that our community is best served rather than just a blanket set of conditions there's also a bargaining issue developers in the past i'm going to go back to the late departed condition i want to condition so we get a water pipeline built through central maui i want to get a condition that he did later on also to get access to the east stream so the country could get its water he also that deals partially he got for maybe some land that they didn't need anymore so he could get affordable housing built for members of our community that kind of debating would be able to go on it would be giving blanket conditions there and there are many many other examples was put into our general plan and subsequently when it went to the state lands commission that one parcel the planning director came down himself and said we do not want this item because that there are of traffic concerns and other issues so doing blanket the proposals is not the way we should be going and i would urge you strongly please take this one idea package of both at the county level and endorsing it at the state level it is not the best way to go for play it's not planning it's law at all condition and it would be difficult for the county to name all its conditions all its all reservations on a project if we're doing blanket type zoning and so it would be much better if we did it by looking at the project in a particular project not all smaller projects under fifteen acres you folks and all so you don't talk about the large ones where there's a large piece of land with a land owner may be able to make conditions may be able to give land to the county for housing let's say why ali has some some afford a house at the county will would presumably build and that was because when the business park went through the conditions were put on there to allow that affordable housing to go go in not on the business park area that the target is now located but rather in the wiley project so these things can be done but if we do blanket that those conditions will be able to handle each project and its unique things and lastly i would add to that is that the general plan is very often done as a place over a twenty year period i would hate to see that growth boundary which is intended to be a twenty year sort of parameter a guideline for the community plans all the sudden be filled in before the community plans even have a chance to make some decisions so there's this some real issues out there and time is just bad legislation to do it that way and i think the present system you know it may be slow it may have occasionally cause headaches for the developers i think is the best interest the community to do it piece by piece ok and the other part was and maybe it's some of the language in the in the legislation you talked about where it says the general plan which the community bank is part of and you gave the amount to which is a really council where we want our urban growth to be and where we don't want to be right so if we change that language to talk about growth boundaries around we book because we have rolled growth boundaries as well we have the two growth boundaries which i think are very good pieces of legislation that we we say this is where you can and this is where you can so are the intent at least i think when we talked about this a while back was that where we have our urban growth boundaries in the maui island plan or the general plan that's where we would do the district  whatever all this and some things get make it reclassified as urban a rural prematurely before the infrastructure is ready right now we know how difficult it is to get any state money to build a highway from liner to central mali and yet there's all kinds of the plan with those goals boundaries you're looking at a twenty year plan i would hate in the first five years all the sudden somebody says ok it's in the growth bodies let's reclassify it it's just not it's premature and in fact after eighteen years we may say hey you know that really prematurely reclassified because you can't take it back that's the problem if you can the county could then say you know hey we jumped ahead too far we prematurely designate that we don't have the infrastructure to bring water to we don't have the  is there anyone wishing to testify is there anyone wishing to testify that has not testified in the chamber seen the one rushing to the podium i will with no objection pool's public testimony thank you and we will to take all those testifiers became disappointing they brought up a lot of good issues and a good ideas again this is a package that we need to understand if we don't get it completed or don't get out of this committee by the sixteen to the full council it won't meet the legislative caught off for eight sec and so if you want revisions will changes we need to really work hard in getting it done so that we can move it forward and if you something that doesn't make it out of here then it will make it to next year and i'm trying my best as well as all of you know mispriced and i only have two and a half months and we're moving things along but more importantly i think these are of items that have sat there and i really believe a concentrated effort by eight sec and some of the changes that we're proposing we will be able to accomplish some of these items and make them reality so we'll see what happens you know there's only seeing and if you try you'll never know the results so moving right along he executive board i'm going to be very honest with you i think some of that will be whittled down and we may end up with three or four of what i call the top items but the other ones will be available should those items come up is part of our package really so it makes as it makes it easier for us to testify send representatives to testify and in our legislators know that we're concerned about that so it doesn't mean all ten will be there at the after it's kind of a revolving and see what we can accomplish each and every year so i just saw you understand mr culch it's not that we're going to get all ten done this year or you know in other counties have brought similar items to the  table so we're going to try to combine them so that if all the counties agree on for example the lifting of the cap on ph d and all that and then that's going to be beach liability is another one maybe sunshine important eggplants let's see what comes what rises what good deals saying let's see what what rises to the top and then we go from there ok so let's start out with i don't number one which is the first resolution has gone through a number of changes may i please ask you to refer to the one dated september first two thousand and sixteen and that's was approving of the inclusion of the two thousand and seventeen date of associ  e without limitation to the numbers of participants and to be exempt from limited meaning constraints in paul's by section ninety two dash three point one of the state's sunshine law ok so that are attending that there's no limitation right now we have a way for more of our school one of us have to then they have to leave only for is allowed and then a report has to be me i'm not objecting to the report but i'm objecting the fact that if mr is attending the meeting that they are allowed to sit there they are allowed to ascertain that information their love to hear what the community has to say and then come back and makes it easier when we're sitting here in these chambers to make decisions first i'm supportive of it as long as you know we had some sort of thing where we could go if there are more than four if there's a we have a  video in a minutes of the meeting and whatnot is that does that this is portion make us exempt from all those requirements well this is why this is this is what the inten examples from the from the requirement yes video yes ok yes because it says notwithstanding section ninety two dash three point one b of this chapter which isn't anywhere in the bill so i'm trying to look up and see what that says  next thank you chair yes i am i'm in support of this and we've been talking about this over and over and so on i i it information but this is we're looking to also be interactive and speak at these is that what are you following me yes i mean i think we put that in there because i thought it's different that's different ok knew ok i got it ok thank you know i i'm good ok thank you very much and i think we took that out because again we were there to gather information not to participate in that respect the real question i have with dad would be when somebody turns this image the way what do you think of that idea and then we get into a real challenge because you know the best answer to that point is we're not here to speak with you to gather information but you know how some people might think that in an offensive manner but i guess like everything else there's no perfect we all we're trying our best by so thank you very much chair i'm in full support of this you know i've been trying since i got here to get this thing through and i'm really happy that it finally making it to the package again and with the revision i think it's good but you know i'm really worried because every time this goes to the just nature it runs into this brick wall and the brick wall is there people like common cause and the league of women voters shame on us come to speak against it they have been able to modify it to make it almost unworkable with this nonsense about minutes  could either do it here or we could do it at it but somewhere it would be good to invite those people continuously speak against this bill and try to phone know what is their problem and could we convince them to cooperate with us collaborator do whatever it is they have to do to help us but there seems to be this mis understanding of what we're trying to do we want to be present to learn and i think they were there saying this is the with not to be transparent to violate its own trent lott and i don't know how to make that clear so that we can take it away so anyway we'll get it we should try again but i think maybe some meeting of women of the league of women voters and the others that have opposed this to sit down with them one on one on one basis and hear what they have to see and see if there's some happy medium or some common ground we can come to that we will be allowed to participate i think their biggest challenge has always been what is a community meeting if you're talking put on by our cooler community association community association or community association define with that but what about a developer who does that you know puts on our community meeting court yeah you know i mean that's that's been there they're pushed back you know and i understand that so it's it's not easy but let's see what we can do i and again i will be meeting in october and november with them so hopefully distal be something that we can resolve before we get to that point but the other side of going is they've been pretty pretty stern about where they stand and maybe it's time we beat down the wall for because if somebody is that interested they should attend the meeting but i do believe that we should add to this proposed segment open to the public because it's not clear to some of these that the media is are open to the public and i think if we make it very clear that we are only asking for the ability to go to educational informational and community meetings that are open to the public then i think we should be able to do it without videotaping or or providing minutes when we spoke to the office of information practices believe it was before last year session they said well you can meet it now you just have to videotape and and and provide minutes and we you know we gave some objection to that they said well but no one's tested it no it's even used that you know that that ability and so we have done that now and it and i think we can we can say that it's not it's a lot of effort for the very little actual result because again if somebody is interested in knowing what happened in the meeting which needs to also be addressed as well thank you chuck and i think that can be inclusive in that you know yes mr white those are just a question for staff when we had that meeting that was videotaped i'd like to know whether we had a new requests for that video staff do you know if we had any request the minutes that were generated i do not i could try and find out ok we'll try to find out before the close of today's meeting we'll check with downstairs and  see what we come up with the thank you chair yes i really did all my colleagues and i like what mr white mentioned about community meetings open to the public and hopefully this be a first step where we can be more fully engage with our community dangerous city there and like you said to me ask you or what's what's your thought so too we just swallow to be more participatory you know and i think this is what we're trying real hard to do in this so if you allow me and the staff to include open to the public and i know there's a couple of places we could put that yes m that's that's one thing it would be community meetings open to the public where i think we would think that's where mr white was going with that but i'm not sure you know we can add that you know that could be inclusive i think community means open to the public and i think that would be very simple to add and would have no real substantial change would that miss whimpering and where would you like i would add ko even though it's you know it's a conference that's opened for us i believe that's open to the public but i believe eight sak is open to the public that is correct you know i'm not sure we should just focus on  that statement of open to the public somehow someway along with all of the packages self so i understand what you want your coming but i do make a by i do agree mr culture in one sense sometimes when you go to different things that are open to the public where we should be in good shape and the other question that i'd like a staff to take a look at is whether or not the requirement for videotaping and and  keeping minutes is in the statute or whether that's in the rules or just an interpretation from a y p because i don't i don't yeah i don't see it in the statute no statue it's not there oh yes it is  is yes it is ok mr chair yeah in ninety two and that's why i asked about this not withstanding section ninety two dash three point one b that's exactly where it is and it says so my question for notwithstanding section two ninety two dash three point one b of this chapter h five page five of the bill the bill itself is only three number four do you have a copy of the new bill four meetings described in subsection e the limitation on number of attendees shall not apply to members of the county council and section ninety two dash one dash three point one b is the whole thing saying that we can do it but we have to have minutes we have to have a video we have to have make the video tape at the next regular meeting there's a long list of things that we have to do so is this saying we still got to do that and there's just no limit of the numbers i am not sure why that's in there and what is required of us just from your question and reading and i don't have progress all of you can attend but i would still think you'd have to comply with ninety two dash three point one b ok thank you that you know the other concern i ha at the other board meeting the disability alliance we obtain from all i p a waiver of the videotape requirement and all that was required for that was a simple email and then we received a waiver signed by shell park within twenty four hours so we did not b t o tape it and we were able to do it without that requirement on with regard to the intention of the proposed bill and the idea is that  the limitation on the number of attendees that would that currently exist under the informational meeting subsection he would be lifted and that is all it would in fact the idea is that the requirements for videotaping that adhered to the limit in meeting a provision under ninety two dash three point one b would not be affected so the idea is that informational meetings could be attended by any number of members and under this provision and they would not have to comply with the video are our separate the one in ninety dash three point one b is as a guest so the council members attending that are attending as guests of a host and the requirements under that provision are such that there must be a lot of cordon nation before hand and with the host into t and the host into the sea has to comply with certain requirements and the council members attending also have to require out comply with certain requirements for example the videotape requirement unless they obtain a waiver from a y p in the current proposed bill it applies to a different section of the sunshine law and that section simply has to do with informational meetings these in these meetings council members can attend right now in a number that is less than a quorum but no coordination has to be affected and the requirements of videotaped cetera are not present so th of council members attending and that is section ninety two dash two point five permitted interactions for revising subsection easy to make all community meetings open to the public i think there's no harm in that i'm however in revising subsection e you'll be affecting  our board attendees not just council members so you'll be a ticket would this bill would change the nature of all community meetings so i don't really see any difference in there or any harm in that however i just wanted to make the committee aware that this would affect more than just the council members of attending a community meeting it would affect all board members attending  any question as to that last statement seen on i would like to make my recommendation package a bill in enabling council members to freely in ten community meetings and i won't repeat that for the rest of the day ok moving right along second item will be state bill attach with resolution with resolution as as exhibit a in title a bill for an act relating to the trendy accommodation back taxes excuse me the purpose of the proposed bill is predictable allocation of the balance of the trends in accommodation tax revenues between the state and counties and for flexibility to the tourism special fund state and counties in the that we saw last term or the last session i should say so i hope that we're able to move this forward and do so effectively this this time around thank you i think part of the plan bringing forward is to take a very hard and strong stand this time start out from start out the start of the gates with a strong proposal so that them legislature knows that we mean business and we really really need their assistance  in full support let's get what we should get thank you i'm in support of this also so thank you for bringing it forward thank you mr couch thank you mr chair and i fully support this just eight sec that all this changing around and moving of the different funds is that something that we have been discussing yes ok yeah right that's what we're trying to bring forward what we've been discussing here so that we know where we're at right thank you and let me remind everyone with a billion dollar surplus we you can you might not on or sorry i have nothing further to that thank you very much any more discussion if not i'd like to make my recommendation recommendation that you would like to entertain a motion to adopt  revised proposed resolution entitle approving for inclusion in the two thousand and seventeen hawaii state association of counties legislative package a bill to enable calm oh wait that's the wrong one i was reading the wrong white i'd just like to point out that just to remind everybody once again that generates approximately one hundred thirty million dollars a year we get back just twenty three point four million so i think what we're asking for is a very appropriate very necessary i think one of the things that may have kept the legislation legislature from acting this past time around was that the question of the counties adopting the neighbor island counties adopting the half a percent excise tax was on still on the table and it was it didn't expire until after session with pal so hopefully they will see that we've not taken the that option and they'll consider this a little bit more seriously and i think it's also important to point out that that from the point about eighteen years ago when we got about one hundred million dollars to eighty out of two hundred twenty six million the total is now grown to projected for this fiscal year of about four hundred fifty billion and we've gone from one hundred million to one hundred two million and the state has taken the balance so i think it's it's appropriate it's timely and should eight eyes and one excuse moving right along the comediennes you receive of correspondence dated august twenty ninth two thousand and sixteen from e a proposed state bill the proposed resolution as exhibit entitled a bill for an act relating to the identification cards for persons with disabilities the purpose of the proposed you or your discussion we thank you very much chair for bringing this up in this on the for the check package and we're not we're not all new to this idea i believe i've presented this before and you know it's it is an elective it is to the person with a disability to choose whether they would like it notated or not but it had definitely has its pluses for our enforcement people to know things that are physically shown you know the disability of sorts and they have some wonderful testimony in fever from late  inforce me agency and others and just that he's seen incidents where people were i guess aggressively arrested because it seemed they were be you know not be participating and all that but it was just due to the fact that they perhaps could not understand what was being asked of them what have you so i think this is an important tool for everyone including the families and the people who are affecting there but negatively just by the sheer nature that things aren't physically shown as a disability so thereby it can be helpful having it stated on an last year and again we all agreed that for emergency personnel as well as our law enforcement and other people it is good if they choose to put it on the i d we know what we dealing with and i know because i was in security for many years and there were incidents where an individual was having a seizure or other things and we had no idea what we needed to work with and so that became real difficult and then if you don't have a family member of someone there to address it ought to tell us what was going on it even made it more difficult so i'm all for in favor of this i think the state needs to recognize this in the colony needs to recognize this but again it's a choice it's not mandated it's their choice whether you want to allow it or saw we could follow up on that again you know it's something that i like to see us try one more time but again i agree with you why don't you know if we should try it again it just might be helpful to find out why it failed to see if there's a seen on i would like to make my recommendation recommendation that you would like to entertain a motion for inclusion in the two thousand and seventeen h association of counties legislative package a state bill to allow certain government records to be shared among council members with no we where no commitment relating to the vault on the mat the proposals resolution as exhibit a entitled a bill for an act relating to government records the purpose of the proposed bill is to allow certain government records to be shared among council members were no commitment to vote on the matter is made or sought again the purpose of this was really we have lots of times had amendments and other forms of communication we'd like to share with our council members but we're not allowed and what i'd like to do is see if somehow we could change where records could be or communication could be sent to mr bison mr white not seeking any  commitment for fault but really for informational purposes that this is what the purpose of this our transmitter would be is for informational purposes and  will make it easier instead of waiting to the meeting then passing out take a break review it then come back and then discuss it at least in your mind you have an idea of what the purpose of the arm in main or resolution or whatever it might be at that point in time so that was the whole rationale behind of this proposals change and i will open the flop and i'll start with you ms spicer because you've been a little into clean volved in this area also here i want to give my support i think it's really really important you know sometimes when we sit down it would be a lot better in easier and get through it faster if we had the opportunity to review it and kind of think about it so i think it's a practical way to facilitate faster in easier consideration of matters thank you mr carroll do you have anything you'd like to add mr white how would this be different than what we're able to do now with posting because we've gotten approval from oh i p two to provide this kind of documentation at the time of posting and then one more time before the meeting i think our challenge in the past was having to deal with new information that we only received after the meeting started but i think we've solved this one if i'm not mistaken not that no but i'm not sure that i don't and i don't i don't think so michael i mean great you know let me just finish ok great not that every committee is using that ability but we have the ability to transmit if this is if this is referring to items that are being transmitted by a member who is not the chair of the committee that i can see that but i think we need to identify it as such  at least make it make it clear that this is outside the approval we've already received ok ok well let's hang on to that thought then we will all  out yeah i'm trying to distinguish between the two differences what is allowed right now for us to be at the posting and sunshine versus what this is what this maybe you can explain it further does what is it different from what we're allowed to have process today as and what would expand to the culture been chomping at the beach to do  come up with something well first of all it's it's not it is for any board just to be to be clear it's not just the council it's any board or commission right because it talks about a member of a board looking at ninety two f twelve there's a lot of government official government documents that not a not a lot of times w want to send any of that back and forth but i can understand when you know we sort of have it as mr white said but we really don't but there are sometimes on one something comes to us that we want to send to members of the committee we have to wait either till two days before or posting but it's something that would help the members of the committee do their due diligence i think this will allow us a little bit more leeway on that because it says there's no committee everybody into a vote you know asked is being sought and no additional discussion other than a statement describing the record  issue related to the government records shall be included in transmetal so this gives us a little more flexibility we can do it whenever as opposed to specific times so i win the support of it thank you and i think and i'm just going to go back to your statement it would be any member so let's say you were to ascertain something that you wanted to share in regards to a certain item without a commitment that information could be transmitted to the council members i think this is what we're looking for a we are able to do that through the chair of the committee now posting in the two days prior so but this would expand that expand yes yeah i think that's what we're trying to do  committee you have you've got for new information dates coming up for the committees at any given time you know during the posting of agenda and the actual committee day you're allowed to day before that the meeting itself or a car or whatever and i can transfer it to the the chair and then the chair can transfer but you know sometimes that interaction takes a while to do that can be passed on because it's for information  i really believe and i don't know where this one is going to watch i'm going to be very honest but i really believe some things we hindered because we wait and i know we've made some improvements so i thank you very much we have come a long way since the haiti but he still  leaves us some time short and then we have to wait to the meeting starts and then pass whatever changes and then sometimes you have to take a break and digesting come back and you're saying oh well if we had known this before maybe would you know a lot of things happen  again so long it's just fact like ms cochran has has mentioned information based on fact to the germane legislation i think that's what we're trying to accomplish just like span what we have right now but i appreciate th chair and i understand that there is that need it's just that those are the kinds of things that are really tough to get past the league of women voters and so on you know well i guess when there's somebody to try now i greet you sometimes you need it may not fly but at least this is an attempt to get declassification mr good's going do you have anything you'd like to add when you have the first section here i don't really understand the distinction between what is allowed currently because we're allowed currently to have two members discuss any matter that's correct and that's what it's saying here that that in the first part two members can discuss and then keeps going further and emulates what we're allowed in any way so i can't figure out where in the reza or in the bill itself is the distinction like what are you expanding i understand what the other colleagues are saying but it doesn't it's not clear enough for me i mean where is the exact expansion from what we're allowed to do right now ok again as stated earlier any in you  for example come up with something online some constituents give you some facts that you want to share and to mars the meeting you can go ahead at that point in time and share it with the rest of the council because again it's not a commitment or request for hold or support it is with the facts germane to the item to be discussed and that's that's what i'm that's what this is all about expanding what we really have because right now we have it at my posting and two days out so what if it's the day before i guess that's what i'm asking but i always thought we were allowed to do it as long as it's there but you can't do it for every council member because that's yet six or two days mister you've been listening to the discussion do you see any challenges with what we're discussing expansion is this intended to serve all of this is again you need to look at section they need to twelve which again i don't have in front of me and i guess the communication discovered is a government record not some letter from you know whoever so you know you've got to make a distinction what are you covering it's a government record required to be disclosed this statute so again  not sure what the intent is i'm sure you guys will figure it out ok mr yet charge i just would agree with corporation council that you know what i'm reading this without explanation i don't i don't understand it so if possibly we could put in more it's distinguishing language to direct their reader of what is what is exactly is the expansion of our i guess our rights or the abilities to you know this is just more clear language i i get a little bit lost in the forest when i when i'm let me put it this way i will defer this matter until i get it i can maybe bring some clarification and they may be not included in a check back initially life sometimes will be i think but i gained my whole idea was so that if something germane informational factual was to come up and needed to be transmitted to all council members they wouldn't have to go through the process especially if it was just not two days out after posting in different issues like that so usual with no consumption building permit information rosters of person holding licenses a bunch of other rules of procedure final opinions nothing about as mr khushi said a letter coming in from  constituent with some facts except for maybe number fifteen which says information collected and maintained for the purpose of making information available to the general public so if if some body from the general public wants to tell the committee anybody can give any member of the board may provide other members of the board any government record so it's not one on one the one on one that was concerned is just saying that fine with you differing as well if you're not comfortable i'm not going to push something longer there we're not comfortable with so if you're not then i would defer this matter an objection ok and i'll take a quick break to let everyone take their needs and be back in five minutes state association of county legislative package a state to include automatic voter registration for applicants for for a driver's license and state identification cards mr chair oh from me jones meaning a proposed resolution in title approving for inclusion in the two thousand and seventeen hawaii state association of counties legislative package a state be able to allow representation of each county participate to participate as a non voting member in bargaining unit negotiation the purpose of the proposed resolution is to improve for inclusion in the two thousand and seventeen eight sec legi representation of each county council to be present as a non voting participant in negotiations for relative bargaining units mister white you were instrumental in this area and i would like to call upon you first thank you chair is the is working additional bills  in respect to negotiations for collective bargaining i should say i think they're looking for us to bring something down i don't know of any other councils that are working on something like this but they all angry when at our meeting  last month they were very much in tune to us being at the table when these bargaining units are in the go shooting so that we have a better understanding on what the items are being brought forward when they reach our table right but i think the there are several other concerns such as the number of votes that the state has with respect to shop or firefighters agreements they have no general fund exposure to either was or they have firefighters at the airport but they're paid for by special funds out of landing fees so i think this is this is certainly one of them i was just wondering whether we had anything else in the works and i believe the core council was going to be taking a look at it as well you know i think to answer your question this is a first step and i thought that this is what really what i had i thought we wanted to have representation first and foremost at the table so that we understood what was going on as far as the number of bolts and all of the other issues that would be and i'll be honest i did not put that in because before i in the deal seeing you take one baby step at a time i did want to take a quantum leap and get everything thrown out the door i feel like this would be maybe the first step for us to really get a better understanding of what's going on and to be at the table to know what's going on and having a representative from each council there and then you know we could look at other issues such as the number of bullets and other collective bargaining challenges that we've faced now if you wan and bring it up and that's fine with me too well the reason the reason i'm interested in in those two agreements is that and the vote count i should say is that my recollection is th we have the same set of circumstances this time that we had during the last ago shapes and there was an announcement of a significant surplus at the state level and that was used to generate funding generate approval of the arbitration award in some of the contracts that the state has no exposure to so using a state surplus to to generate approval of arbitrated agreements or arbitrated decisions on county funded county funded positions just didn't seem right to me and i think that's something that we can we can probably make somewhat clear although our success with the th t doesn't necessarily  looking for ways in which we can be participating at the at the table which this bill does but i think we need to also be looking at some other other items and we never know what might might pass but i think it's it's worth a shot because we have the same set of circumstances this this time around with the big surplus at the state level driving could drive some arbitration awards thank you very i i got the message and i think what i was trying to do is take one step at a dying but i understand what you're seeing maybe we need to add more to the step yeah i think what i would like that i would like to have have corp council system with what they feel we should be targeting as you know what items we should target over a period of time and possibly better you know what corporation council as far as what they would feel it something that what the priorities would be in this respect you mentioned a time frame within which these need to get in the sack pack n you know i've been pushing the other counties to get theirs in then so i would hate to be the example that i don't want to be but i know what you're saying you know and not much because again i would say we have to have something to gather my october so the november we can really have our package ready to go out when selections are done we'll know what we need and who we're going to be dealing with so i don't i did that would be my morals limited time frame if you want to use that in the reason i would like to take some time developing this part of the package it especially because i think it's it is a critical item and i think it's important that we provide the  scope of the challenge with collective bargaining because the if the state is not helping us control costs on one hand and is not helping provide additional revenue through the t t it puts the counties in a really really tough position because as you recall when we were presenting the t t last  year we had gotten a two point two million dollar increase over an eight year period and during that same time frame the cost for the four counties to operate just police fire and parks and increased by one hundred seventy million dollars so again they're they're not can helping us control costs and they're not giving us additional revenue so they're putting us in a position of having to go back to our own in and we can you know come up with something more relevant and enough probably not make the ha deadline well let's see what happens from that point yes mister brightside ok thank you very much i don't want to muddy this too much because i will defer but in the process of looking at what we're going to bring back i don't want us to forget that we had a big issue here and should not and should the council members not be put on this employer group because for whatever it doesn't fly with the issue of confidentiality that i would like to have it just because there seems to be a misunderstanding and somewhere in this revision if we're going to do it i want to make sure that you know the negotiations that are going on can be shared with councils in executive session i think that should be clear and that's a good example of part of our discussion that i think has to be dealt with because you know it's ambiguous and so everybody says well we cannot do it can we ever can do it right well i i believe what they were seen in open session it could not be i know i don't think they ever said we couldn't going to executive session and discuss it no they did they refused to tell us even in executive session i don't recall that they d that they signed a confidentiality that's really where they couldn't and that they couldn't tell so we have to somehow allow for that agreement not to include us either by state statu or change the agreement kind of thing correct i think that's a really very critical item because they won't tell us anything nothing and you know they're sure there have also gone so far as  refused to tell us things after the fact after the agreements are in place they won't tell us things as i find that to be really concerning because at that point it's public record and our own management side is not sharing information with us as funders as i just reiterate that i asked for a copy of the  arbitration award and i was told i couldn't have it and so you know we decided to make it a foyer request which we can do as a private citizen how is it that the bring that up but i understand where you're going to fight with dissent and so with that in mind again let's see what i can work a week or preaching calls and come up with something more inclusive food all these different items but i don't know how much i mean if you start throwing out a lot of it in there i'm not sure what the you know the i think the challenges that we're facing in fourteen new congress to the end of this year and we're facing a significant  expenses because the state has such a large surplus so that just means that once again we're going to have exposure to the potential of public unions getting significantly this matter mr chair before we go too far is there are you going to be able to get something back to us to get to there because i think because we have those fourteen agreements this year that we need to really try and get something in at this legislation even if it's just this for now and then we can add on to it later i've i'm real concerned that we won't get anything for this aids that package and it by then by the time where we get something in those fourteen negotiations will be done  chair i'd like to think that we can get something done by the time i need to vote on it and i think i agree with mr couch we have to get it done this year and i think we should if the other counties are waiting for us to provide something i say we we do our best to do so and i think missed by so i can attest to that was the general feeling we brought it up they were said will you take the lead and  back to us that's correct yeah so you know even if it takes something special we better do it because if we miss this we miss and and it's important enough to hear that i would be more than happy to schedule a special meeting just for this oh thank you i'm talking about cal somebody i'm sure you would do so yes i would be just as to do something and so long as all the members are willing to be there i got no problem i guess again i'm trying to move this along because i think this is so very important and i'm going to i'm happy to see we've taken the lead other counties have just kind of sit back and they're not looking at us to think that leadership so i want to make sure we get something appropriate ok bill attach to paul's resolution as exhibit a in a bill for an act we believe it relating to voting the purpose of the proposed bill is to include automatic voter registration for applicants for  mentioned that he would he would love to see an automatic voter registration the new norm across america and i think it's just following you know making voting more accessible and convenient for the people i think are walk in voting in malians have  been very convenient for there are working you know working in community there's been some states who haven't i guess or givens are ready incorporated this and they've added fifteen more eligible citizens to their voting rules and for every one person who declined to opt out california vermont and west virginia are also passing this automatic bridge gratian laws and twenty other states are also considering this so it kind of falls into place also i guess with a representative in the introduction of his bill that created the same day voter registration concept and that seems to be quite useful for people and overall government has stated that the costs will decrease increases for accuracy and security will improve and will curb the potential for for odd so these are to me some very key positive points in this action here today so i'm looking for some support  thirty thousand volt so i don't see the problem has been registration at this point as much as getting people to out to vote and even the same day voting as misting and former governor abercrombie signed into law it did not seem to have changed that and we were law but the rest of the state was in much better and so and i'm not knocking what you're saying i think it's something that in time will you know will be an easier way for people to register to vote  mind it's not the real challenge is getting people out to vote and why aren't defaulting you know we've done it walk in mailing i mean we've done everything we could to make it convenient and still we fall very short and i'm disheartened in that respect i am very disheartened in that respect so i will open the floor up to discussion mr white thank you chair the question i had was whether it's possible to get a state id if you're not a resident or a driver's license or another resident i don't know that you can but i'm just wondering if there's any i guess i would actually i studied just have that because if you get a if you get registered to vote by getting a state a state id but you don't live here i've heard of people getting a seat id that don't live here just i just i think that's a clarification we would need to have before i would be comfortable supporting that i generally agree that we should be registering as many people as we can but just a question mr cochran might have  citizens eligible citizens but how do i guess the question is how if if part time residents are getting a state id and register to vote here how are we going to have personal knowledge of people who live here part time they're part time residents and they want to go to the county golf course so they get their own driver's license from hawaii get a whole wasted id so that they can qualify for resident rates and  i am totally in support of registering people and i'm having them a lot of them to vote but i don't want to mix up our statistics any more than they already are i mean this is the big fat mess of you know who lives there who doesn't who's entitle to these benefits and i don't know if this is another open situation if we could somehow get them to where did they live here that would help but we don't know and it gets messy because they probably  in some type or residence see proof that you are literally literally here and have residence here and are of your kind i don't know about that electric bill and all that because i know of people and i want to say that make sure that if it is necessary if more is needed that's fine if not you know obviously we're not going to spend more money than we have to but we need to you know the whole thing was i think to really incentivize to the state that we're willing were committed we want your commitment so we can get this job i don't appreciate providing in other words saying that we have to appropriate matching funds i can see that whatever legal term the possibilities we can provide the matching funds that we want th next two fiscal years and we'll move the rest if that will get it done let's get it done that again i don't know about the other man but ok so i don't know if you have any other questions member white thank you chair i agree with mr bello because the important ag land issue is essentially without providing funding is another unfunded mandate from the state and if they're not going to mechanism that once the counties there are required to do incentive programs first before the monies can be allocated so i think a lot of times when we go in to request the funding the state would have an argument to say look you haven't even started on your incentive program so i've been you know this when mr relevant brought this forward i had met with the planning department to see where they were on the status of that and they weren't moving either so we all need to be on the same page if we're going to be asking for the two hundred fifty thousand we need to be on board and and ready to go on our and and you know like i said in the statute itself this chair yes you would also need to change page three of the bill the actual bill line delete the sentence this starts on line three chick next one is the committee's receipt of correspondence dated august thirtieth two thousand and sixteen from next five years mr cochran thank you chair and we had quite a few testifiers this morning in reference to this particular item and i had a chance to discuss a little bit about their concerns as in think the number the seven hundred thousand dollars they felt was too low and it was discussed a million would probably be first off they'd think this is to fail no matter what but to give it a fighting chance to raise that amount of the seven hundred thousand upwards and so i am willing to just bump it clear to a million right now i guess the discussion over on all who is that you know a million they're even debating whether million is a luxury number there so we are trying to push this through that island and i think if that's going to give it a fighting chance then i'm willing to go there i think something would be better than nothing so overall this would you know ten thousand dollars taxation on a million dollar unit and you know for us here on maui that's  definitely we can define it as luxury so the seven hundred thousand came from actually a state study that showed the price of mainlanders purchasing homes at least the starting rate was over seven hundred it was around seventy eighty six average price for mainland people i'm sorry foreigners foreign buyers and then mainland buyers dropped to six hundred twelve thousand and then our local people four hundred seventy seven thousand so that's where i grab that seven hundred thousand number but you know if we want to make sure we're going to clear any local buyer from being caught in that net it was so to speak that i willing to push that threshold up to the million dollar bracket at this time that was one of the main i think issues that our testifiers how this morning so i want to just kind of cut to the chase as we're trying to do here before noon to  point so that's one of my suggestions if that could work for people and again this is just something better than nothing in my eyes to put money in all the counties coffers in order to address the housing situation which it's just one prong of the bigger picture as we all know and just see work goes thank you thank you mr schorr you heard the proposal to change from seven hundred thousand to one million is there any objection to making that change first and foremost mr koch they miss chair that it says for properties but  talked to some of our local families that have been here for a while that have there been very for a very very long time that have stuff land on the ocean their land is worth twelve million dollars is that but their house is not not even worse over a bunch so the concern i would have would be would it be the value of the building or the value of the whole property i would have some concern with the exactly what you're referring to so i just brought that up for conversation ok so your real quick i have a explanation or comment to mr couch is concerned so it's  the person actually so this isn't like an ongoing real property tax type of taxation it's when buyer of mean the seller and it's so it's kind of the burden on the buyer the person who's a question or a miss cochran knows the answer to this is there any thing in the bill that would require the state to send the money back to the generating county  yeah i would just let me i can't point out exactly what page five line three thank you mr couch ok yeah thank you for inquiring because that's super important value per se not so much i mean i guess we're finding that things are a lot of times it is that offshore outside whatever multiple own home by people at this time it will just never be able to get the rest of this than i you know and with the idea that we're talking about a special meeting to bring this back what i would as i will be sending out a call for certain day with in three hours what he need to get done so that was my plan with your permission and we will be polling and i hope all of you can make it make yourself available because i'd like to get not only those that are not completed but those that we deferred and as well as the molly package and those changes can be made to the my package for those that have been completed with a check back each so with no objections i will defer the remaining items on the agenda and we will be getting back to all of you very shortly as far as a special meeting to try to get this completed and if you have any other information you'd like to share please forward it to the committee secretary we need for the next meeting i think it might be appropriate to ask if there if there are members that have information they need for this last item  there are a number of comments made and the fact that they need another by that you know another option or opportunity to question things at the state land  commission it might be appropriate for us to have some information from planning department as to exactly how many times projects come up for review whether it's at this you know at the state land use planning commission or at the council  obviously everything goes through the council for a zoning if not community plan and that island plan so i mean my understanding is this does not do anything for his own name just simply makes the it just simply leaves out what i believe about a year and a half process you know the state land use commission being the planning director and make sure that we get that yes mr culch thank you mr chair and in regards to some of the testimony in there if there if you can figure out language in there in section b page  for that talks about our urban growth and rural growth boundaries that's what we're trying to discuss not just in general the general plan because the testifiers correct general plan is kind of in flux all the time with the community plan so if in section the there we can talk about our urban growth and world growth boundaries that would be more specific  we're trying to do get to the correct page page for line twelve and i can work with you and maybe if you work with the planning director as to how to