the town staff have been negotiating me an exclusive license agreement with the catamount family center for the town forest property for almost a year without seeking in any input or approval from the select board trees also mentioned that the committee to make recommendations for the town property forest has yet to make those recommendations paragraph if i could just amend that to say it says ted can enjoy that feedback from residents has been received which is true i think i said that though in my section as well so i just wanted to add my name to that that we've all gotten feedback on the property and the rights the town seems to be giving away so just it just ted kenny terry's it rich or however you want to add mea about halfway down a sentence that reads per information from the state to my hand farm property is not permitted ball and the town ball field behind town hall potentially can be permitted and i wondered if saw it's time for public comment if anyone has any issues that i'd like to bring up tonight you are on the agenda are not on the agenda this is not opportunity time for do no hands raised and then move on to board interviews and appointments so tonight we have two people who are interested in the position of town constable fran studdard and mike moran if you'd both  ok my name is brand standard and i have lived in willesden for nearly thirty years and really haven't been a participant except for a regular voter and when i saw this on front porch form i was moved by it because i'm doing a lot more work with community development facilitation moderation of groups and i still would like to get a better sense of that's what i was interested in serving the town and by the way thank you is so nice to get some faces and names together for for me having lived here for a long time and been very as as i say mainly voting and occasionally com town meeting but that's that's really my story i'm i'm fascinated by the job i also just one other thing i also i am a television producer by the way i am i have been in media production for a long time so this is a switch but i've worked for the wharton family foundation for the last five years mainly doing community development work and seeing how towns work and how towns can get stronger through a process that they use and i've been intrigued by that so that's also my interest and in towns the boards that i've been and i apologize for my if my resume wasn't really about this job in particular but i've been on a lot of boards as well but most of those are out of burlington or statewide so i have not been involved in government  here very open and interested in your questions thank you my name is mike moore and i'm also here interested in learning more about the constant role people who need to be served also to help follow up with dog licensing dog engine but also to provide some presence during your meetings as well so those are things that  would be necessarily required attend all public meetings of that ok well thank you so my background is that little different i have worked in the private sector primarily  many different industries almost always in leadership roles for large projects large numbers of staff people who are usually highly challenge the types of projects that i manage of the last ten years been implementation projects for hospital organizations electronic health care projects and most of what i do is helping people deal with stress helping people solve problems helping people achieve what has to be achieved for the organizations in i'm a mentor consultant who's large health care organizations so i also have been owner of a retail business for a number of years in to i'm a veteran army reserve six years to see what else i can bring in general you know the feedback i get the feedback that people get about me is that i am a good problem solver calming encouraging type of person which is something i've had to develop over the many years of working with people who are thrown into roles that they maybe not really fully understood for example with like like healthcare systems a lot of the people who are asked to be the technical resources on these projects are nurses grad techs other people from the health care sciences that are asked to become technical in nature and configure and develop these systems and most of them very quickly will become overwhelmed because it's something they've never done before and i thought a little bit like the difference between taking care of patients as patients tend to come in and go poorly quickly but these projects are like i've had people describe his death marches you know they go on for two to five years and this is very different so i've had a lot of experience helping people deal with that getting them prepared for it and have been very successful so i'm hoping that i can bring that calming problem solving skills  d start off with nobody else so based on what eric shared about the roles of the constable i guess maybe just mike to you i don't know if i'm sorry i was also aware of those basic roles and i've talked to other people and they're a little bit different in each camp of course so she and i and i actually tried to get in touch with she fully just to see if he had but maybe it's just purely your decision you know in many different areas so i'm sure either of you would serve surfing but what of of those responsibilities kind of drew draws you to the job or well i think the boy has been a believer in the law and so when i saw that i thought it would be a great way to to get involved without being a policeman which is very different role being patrolmen and so it seemed like it was a great opportunity to meet people in the legal field without it being the my background does support me very strongly so that's where the truck for me serving papers brought up what's that really mean and is that somebody who has resisted someone else perhaps serving papers i'm not sure i've done some diversity training in other training there's there's just that was intriguing and a little i wonder what that really entails and what it just be me and is that appropriate and it brought up some very interesting questions but i was intrigued by that and what i'm just personally might learn from what that is about registering dogs doesn't really sound compelling but it sounds like it's something that might need to happen in some towns when i saw that in some the constable destroy starbucks that that's not me so if that is part of the job that would be me but it doesn't sound like that is here and being a presence at a public meeting is something i'm very comfortable with and and dealing with people that are having difficulties are disruptive i too am glad i heard what the position taled i wasn't sure that helps it leads me to wonder if the position is going to involve dealing with difficult situations serving somebody a paper that might be something along the lines of an addiction notice or you know some i don't know what else i can come up with that they are not going to be receptive to receiving it maybe they're angry to start with that type of thing with the dog issue i assume it's not really about registering dogs that would probably happen downstairs but it's it's more the it's more  want to take on so a little bit along the trees this question of why are you interested in taking on and how would you deal with it from the first conflict which is first i was fully expecting that we serve papers to people that a good percentage of i'm not going to be welcoming those papers flat talk them through it try to help me understand the situation is not personal but it's important that the papers be served it's important they have the papers those types of discussion is what's appropriate behavior who they can talk to the need to pursue the you know the basis of why they're getting papers and kind of move it out of the i'm just angry and to give them options for what to do but i fully believe that there is the possibility in today's world that things could actually only go in the direction that you would plan if the news we see  today is telling us anything it's that things are changing certain places that never had to worry about that before so i had no expectation that whatever happened but i i think it's a smart idea to have someone who's a citizen and not an officer serve papers or our or come to a situation it might be that an officer needs to be outside i'm not sure but i think listening talking to people understanding what their situation is first i think they would be aware that yes you're you're there to serve papers but let's let's talk about what's happened and options if there if there are any certainly he would like to talk about that so my tact would be to talk to this person as someone who is probably in some troubles and what's what's going on with that and what these papers might mean and what some options might be that's how i would handle it it doesn't scare me i think if i feel that there would be an insecure time i might want one other person also with me i mean that's something that that would have to be judged quickly but i'm i'm i'm not concerned about that because of other difficult situations that i've been a part of or handle but i'm also aware that things can escalate you just never know what my next question actually is going to be a question for the whole group and i for some reason it falls on my shoulders that i asked this of all candidates it's a conflict of interest question but my question probably is is this a really this position is so unique does it really makes sense that there would be potential conflicts of interest and i was going to say if you know somebody i wanted to add on to your conversation here kind of i would be could end up putting yourself in all kinds of positions you may not want to be in witness who knows what else so i would just say you don't but if i see get in to doing that it's you know thank you i'm sorry you may not be happy about this but here you go and your d it really basic one is how do you recognize it for this one seems quite simple and but what would you do about it certainly if i knew someone that i was asked to serve papers i think i would consult with someone who does this does this make sense i know this person i think someone else should do it and i would i would consult with either this office and or someone else who has recommended or or or maybe joy because she's a lawyer and knows how these things should should be handled properly i assume that the sheriff's office would be something we could lean on if we ran into a conflict of interest that was a next door neighbor or someone that you just felt it was appropriate  i was i was going to say i think either candidate could probably do the job and i get the impression fran that you you you are expanding and i had the same thoughts actually even though i'm not an attorney that joy i have about having the discussion of these things because my take is is probably not part of the real or mediation or anything in terms of serving papers so but i would encourage you you know if you don't get this particular petition positioned to continue trying to work with the town because we could use all the volunteers and and that we can get for sure that i'd be happy to appoint either candidate or i think we're very application we have an application from the skill polk bar and rick perhaps you start up with the representatives from the organization of the moment say other than restaurant and the kismet place building we are looking to get our first class license so we can serve beer and wine with our food and it's kind of complete the whole restaurant picture as simple as that you have to talk a little bit about the outside surface ok so we have some picnic table set up with some tables and we just want to have outdoor seating area for the people who are drinking right so we will have stuff and weekend evenings we'll have somebody out there cleaning off tables and stuff that brings the drinks from inside to outside and back and forth trans are in a lot of bring alcohol up themselves there is talk with the landlord of having a service window so have a window that goes right out into that section from our kitchen with the questions from the board could you could i understood why you did i hear you say that you're only planning on serving alcohol on saturdays and sundays no it would be a would be a seven days a  week i was using it as an example for the outdoor space just to you know somewhere you can sit outdoors and and just enjoy yourselves here in town and not have to go to you know places in burlington are just looking to have a little bit outdoor seating for people is what course our biggest concern is either serving under age folks or somebody who shouldn't be served any more alcohol and so my question is more about the training what type or training will either you or your area us five and a half years ago and i just said refresher course myself under the regular state guidelines we would then be authorized to train and gave the state licensed d l c programs to our staff they would only be licensed within the confines of our building even if they work somewhere else with a part time job it would work that way so just following the regular state regulations of you know i doing every customer being really aware of that and then having people somebody would always be on site who is certified yes and that would be that extended length class and i'm sure you're familiar with the state like you can get it basically a d v d and we could all sit in this room together and watch and that would count as being d l c certified there is an extended and person class that you can take through the state with a licensed official that i think they do and darlington at the place department that's a class we both talk that's the one that we would have any managerial staff take they do all sorts of pass around think i so right now there's three picnic tables and we have three to talk tables together picnic tables are going to go and we're going to have a total of about seven to top tables so we have four more that we're going to order yeah absolutely and i believe it has to be made yeah yeah yeah yeah i mean over here it like if you're had fifteen or twenty people outside in and you're not enough waitstaff going back and forth be able to keep an eye on what was happening and there are security cameras with video and sound inside the building that actually our access like show that area if there was ever any concerns or anything like that in front of william that's where it is it's right on the front sidewalk of the building so the only access to would be from the kids restaurant oh two into the area and then back through the kids but i'm just wondering for the well  an outside the building kind of what it sounds like you're going to have a lot of people many more much more seating than you have inside maybe two or three times as much as you're going to a lot of people out there and can people come and go outdoor seating area just there is it so and it's roped off it's not really roped off from people getting into it from anywhere because they could come from well we could have some you know signs for scale customers only is basically you know be like a roped off section on church street across from the restaurant you know it's only for those patrons of that restaurant so the would be you know our seating area for our restaurant i understand what you're saying and i i don't know what the rules are feels because many times we have we see we ask whether it's connected and you basically can't get into that area unless you're coming you know from inside the restaurant you know well i  going into it a similar situation where as you could only purchase the alcohol like it can only be purchased at one single point of sale system which would be inside the building so you could walk into the restaurant order your drink and someone would follow you out with it similar to the way that if you're sitting in the outer seating at grazers you could walk into that and sit down at a table but a server would have to serve you out so is that a maybe i misunderstood is that the way it works you have to go inside to buy the  accessory to the primary abuses in the building number two and after i kept i have not been approved as part of this cycle so i would strongly recommend that you come in and talk to us in the planning office before you go too much further with your question i think you need to come into our office and have a conversation with this other wise you may think everything is all i can dory and it's not so what i'm hearing tonight doesn't square with my understanding  back i wonder if you're going to go away from the scheduled public hearing for about five minutes and do the investment policy report that beckett's he promises to be short and going to listen five minutes or so so thank you for my me to come in to these been a long time since we've done an actual report investment activities report and that's primarily because there hasn't been any investment activity for years when the interest rates really get zero interest rates have you know in the last several months have really started actually increasing and becoming worthwhile so hundred ninety actually with a few updates in two thousand and nine the this policy here more reflects today's day and age there are a few things that have been taken away now accounts we don't use now accounts and anymore and just terminology here in there essentially it is the same policy that we've had right along where you know  how we invest funds what's what's allowable funds and all of these take into consideration kind of the prudent man philosophy it's being very prudent with our funds we're not going to go into stocks and bonds and high risk anything actually it's what it would be prudent person do with their own funds and that that's been our policy right along we do also and where we invest funds we try to go back and we started this we had no choice but to stay within the state of vermont has for as basic as banking had to be it wasn't much into state banking  on and but we try to stay local as much as possible was first and then regional and then branch out beyond reach our regional and to do that there's got to be some really good rigs and we do we are actually using great eastern management for which i am out for a couple c v s that we have now one point seven five percent which one w amount of that it would take to collateralize all our accounts within them which is the repurchasing on that on a daily basis of bylaw amendments that covers not all but most chapters of the bylaws many of these changes are relatively minor some of them are the correction of typographical errors the correction and replacement one second has to do with accessory sales for food and beverage manufacturers and we had some discussion about this the last time i was here what's been proposed is to expand the amount of floor area the maximum on a floor area that one of these manufacturers distributors would be able to have for their excess resales and then the other that was of substance had to on the national or the state registers of his store historic structures in order to be able to be considered to be historic that in a nutshell is what's in front of you any discussion or questions for can on this so can what do you think about the of the narrowness of the store definition  it was to prevent new people building new barns and places where maybe we didn't want well number one the d r p specifically requested the language that in this a they specifically requested they did not want to have to be in a position to judge between dueling historic preservation is and we had a protracted debate here in this very room between two very well qualified and well spoken historic preservation is each in a post to the other and it's you know sometimes said to be meetings there are different points of view that are aired but this was one where the piece said they didn't they really didn't want to have to be in that position to make that determination you know in the case of you know the handy bar it's a bar  t had collapsed and was rebuilt and regardless of what the historic value of the architecture is it was rebuilt and it was rebuilt it's now more than twice the size of whatever easily was so it sort of begs the question as to whether what's standing here today on the ground it's very nice looking structure i've seen it numerous times driving and riding by there but it does sort of beg the question as to whether or not it would meet that criteria of his stor when the language was put in the by law to allow these banquet facilities sort of things we basically tagged it on to some existing language that was already in the via walk having to do with you could definite stuart varney into housing and it would be it would allow you to have a different housing type then you would otherwise be allowed to have in this zoning district in dealing with the question of the event facilities we kind of put it as part of this and so that language was drafted some time ago we also got some import from the state historic folks who said that there's also this criteria specific criteria for when you do a renovation of a historic structure and has to meet these criteria and these criteria are all promulgated by you know the state requirements are an expression of what the federal requirements are so in all of these discussions both with the d or b and our discussion with the state historic people what we're trying to do is make sure that what we have in our regulations is essentially in sync with all of those other things and we don't get too far feel i would make the comment as far as you know the town does have an historical and architectural advisory committee it's worth noting though that that board doesn't have any decision making authority it's a recommending body it's not at the siting body so any recommendation that they make goes to the  house to see the wisdom of their recommendation just like the planning commission planning commission comes to you with recommendations and you have to censure the agree with their recommendation in order for that to take take effect so so i would go back to my original comment that the therapy said very in phatic leave that they they did not want to have to be in that position to make that determination they would rather that determination be made by true  experts this is a little bit and don't read anything into this i'm just exploring but it's the concept of it is the it's you know the designated this is not the right word but a state or federal list does that become too onerous of a bar to achieve for what is for the intended use which is that wedding aspect of it and i don't know if i expressed that well judging from happening and i guess my question sometimes i do my best thinking when i'm talking i guess my question is along the lines of what is the significance of the historic barns for that use the banquet facility whether it's on a list type historic barn versus some other type of historic criteria might be the way to put that fully understanding if i was the d b i would not want to be in the position of having to say this board is historic this but it's not i mean i fully understand that and being an engineer myself i like clear cut did anyway i don't think i have if you wanted to a definition of what is considered a historic bar in the state and nationalists have to find that so now you're saying you want to define it by something else but you already had the answer to your post you know what i'm saying is is different than that what i'm have doubled and moved it to an entirely different place i have to agree i mean it may have some historic elements to it but it is certainly not what the original structure was that would have been on the list so let me give you an example when we built our i understand the moving in the moving is one where i might agree you've lost the historically has been covering the fight but but but let me give you another example what about i'm going to use example of in my personal case building a house and we we built a house that was designed to architectural standards that are the old historic connor home and we did that because we really liked that look what i'm getting at is and we believe it's a very pretty house because of its its architectural details of historic architectural details so i guess my question is if somebody were to build a barn that had appropriate architectural detail such as that it can't be historic obviously but it has all appearance its characteristics of a historic barn why would that considered historic or not kind of bringing up maybe a different way because i think i know what you're getting and i think i've heard the input from the community why are we trying to limit the ability of people who don't have it stored burns from you know making extra money or creating banquets or weddings of their farms if they have a nice bar i guess i don't  have to remind me why is historic why is that meaningful boy why do we care it seems like we're we're saying if you kept your bar for some miracle over the last two hundred years you're burnt was able to stand and not need rebuilding through some you can no hold weapons which has nothing to do with historical arms but that i can figure out but versus another farmer who's had to rebuild it and you know i don't think farmers are getting rich environment from the last i heard about the prices and they look at this resource this barn as a way that i can make ends meet why are we limiting can you remind me to sure so first of all in the area see that the agricultur approval to do residential development and you have to go through a sometimes long and arduous process to get approval there may be open space requirements all kinds of things but either then in this narrow definition of the adaptive reuse of historic structure we would not allow an event facility to be built in the areas edi it's completely contrary to the intent and purpose of th zoning district so so there's some language in the buy a lawn which was designed to allow somebody who had an historic barn to be able to to adapt it to some other use other than being what we think of as the typical uses of a barn adapting it to residential uses those are not the typical uses you would expect of a barn having a dance hall and music and catering etc those are not the customary uses you would expect to have in a bar and one of the concerns when this originally was taken up by the planning commission a few years ago is that we were concerned about there being a proliferation of these things throughout the town and we have fielded questions in the planning office periodically from folks who would like nothing better than a calm in and buy up a little ten acre piece i haven't and go and plop down some modern event facility so that's the other side that's the you know part of the consideration for having a definition that has some boundaries to it which is that we we have some some very specific things that we say we either we want that we don't want in the agricultural residential zoning district and if it is a core part of the town's land use plan as expressed in the town plan and then consequently in our zoning regulations and thank you so i understand it's still historic basically have to be a commercial zoning district that allows the use but they could make a structure they could make it look like a barn if they wanted to and i think it had the same setting as maybe understood but it were not prohibiting that currently ten percent of the floor area up to a maximum of a thousand square feet yes yes and i believe what was proposed was what a pity after fifteen hundred poultry species on a residential lot under the current size not just chickens a question for the board to consider and this is to what degree would like to regulate the broader keeping of poultry on residential lots under an acre and town initial staff work as looking to see if there were different standards for health and keep of say turkeys or decent posts of chickens in the ordinance as structures and things are mindful of chickens another option would be to this case or laying the poultry there is a process going to be take place it would need to go back to the planning commission at that point for comment from the planning commission and then go back to the board we checked with the town attorney last week and the board would have the option it could separate the issues here if the board was comfortable with the other pieces of the byelaw amendment relating to breweries and farms the board could move to adopt those pieces but that exclude the sections pertaining to poultry at that point the board leaders and they are at a future meeting could suggest can make language changes for the poultry section to go back to the planning commission for comment after that comments receive a new public hearing people warned at that point and it could be in collection of amendments so essentially you're just sort of setting it aside you're not deciding on that issue tonight you're continuing that to some point into the future and then you can decide on whatever whatever issues that you you're ready to decide on tonight and and then if there is a change proposed change to what the planning commission has drafted at that point you would need to send it back to the planning commission but just setting it aside wouldn't necessarily trigger that consider as a as a policy if because you know our discussion that eric and i have was just as simply a question of whether or not you're ready to move to take action on that issue and in if you are that's great but i think as eric said so we don't actually going turkeys to i'm sorry because of the definition we would have inadvertently been allowing ducks and turkeys as well as chickens if we even went there and i see so it's really just an observation and your own  portions of the town's available sewer capacity that will be available for allocation touring the upcoming fiscal year this is an annual process at the select boarding gauges and it's preceded by an analysis of the amount of capacity we have data pertaining to flows projects i develop and proposals and projects that are in the pipeline etc and and then there's a proposal for how much literally how many gallons per day of circuit passes should be placed in various criteria for potential allocation during the upcoming   hopefully you've heard me say i think the process we use with attachment a is a very good process it's a very robust process might my problem is that when we had that hope used that wanted to get an allocation under the encourage specific development i just have real trouble with that not real trouble but i just have  an issue with that and so that's i have an issue with how attachment he deals with that specific category had nothing to do with whether that not had nothing to do that particular use it was a show some sort of a unique characteristic that furthers the town plan and i just really couldn't see it with that use or no more so than some uses that we probably wouldn't have given an allocation under such as  retail so that's that's my problem and so on my can draw on them is do i vote against it because of this this one issue or a relatively small one or go and vote against it because even though i have this section two so i don't think that this was discussed at the previous like word meaning but i think there was some kind of a general well i thought several of us thought five years was better but i have ect maybe a procedural question so one of the problems i guess i have with the way we're proceeding here is that we provide feedback and some portion of the changes get made and then we get the thing we get the license agreement back and some portion of them are changed and i hear melinda using words like the remaining requests for change and i don't think they're embodied in the current document at all so we haven't kind of gone through all the issues that were brought up and i think i sense i tend to list you terry as are chair kind of indicating the zeer is i think we need to focus on but in lieu of that it feels like this process is going to go on for a very long board member but trying to come up with a way that we can make this go faster agree on so one of the things we didn't do up front that is set down a set of policies that the select board approved for to negotiate and grima to right because we started in the ocean agreement before we got the committee input or set down any in fact i go back and i read the  the forest committee chaired or and i'm actually flabbergasted as now we ended up here because the forest committee turned talks about make recommendations in the paint make recommendations for  and then we have a lightning conclude and i thought if the select work could go off and agree on what policies we wanted to see reflected in the agreement it would at least give me some direction in court actually wanted to have like you had in their original m m u that evidently was never signed but from my from what from talking to the cademy member family center v p they were certainly running town's fiscal responsibility because that's one of the seems one of the snags as well in the town's oversight of the provider in caretaker and come up with it i don't know if the the rest of the board is willing to go there or not but it seems like unless we set down some policy that we want reflected in the license we're going to go back and forth and so we've been through the document a couple or three times and we've had some comments and some of those two things if you want to have changed in the document which were accomplished and we have a list know some of the things that staff to attorneys i've gone through it statement by statement and there's a ton of stuff in there that i don't think reflects the town's best interest so from an ownership perspective from a you know from  from the town investing six hundred thousand dollars in the property interest so and again we heard your comments on that that well actually we haven't gotten we actually haven't gone through them all actually have provided them but i kind of expected the telling staff to to do something with them we did provide them to the town staff as i mentioned in the last meeting we had but very little of it made its way into the agreement and in really get a response on the other comments i mean the first one and the one that ted brought up at the last meeting was the exclusive license to the property very first thing we mentioned that that wasn't i mean do we i mean we can i guess we could that's why it seems like it if it's left to interpretation like that maybe we should go through each and every statement and look at you know what we agree and disagree on because it doesn't feel like the you know we're actually getting to all the points i mean you talk terry when when through it three times but it just came to some people's attention that we were giving this exclusive lease to the property to somebody else not of the town right so in not just the trail system but the entire property so  necessary to go through this one more or less line by line to find out whether there's agreement among a majority of board with members  so and the alternative way and that is to come up with started and make copies but to come up with a set of policies that we want to see reflected in the license so we don't have to go through the fifty pages or however many pages  retreat but it seems like we're missing this kind of process right because having this coming to the end of the year of negotiation certainly is going to be upsetting to the people who have been doing it for a year but it's equally upsetting to somebody who's draft in agreement and then you start going through it and pulling things out making recommendations and editing it so i mean you've got to start somewhere an offer from with that agreement being so i would only say just to having been in business i can't go out you know and in my position create an agreement with another company without having some boundaries and guidelines i work in right sure i'm allowed to sign for you know so many million dollars i'm allowed to do those and you know i can't give away you know i can't give away things that i don't have the ability to give away i think the same thing and in the town staff's situation they gave away things have no power that's up to us we haven't voted on it yet so fraser all recommendations are not exactly right i was just talking about the process we go through to make it so that when it comes to us we have some that reflects what we would interesting thing is i think there are significant things that i want to talk about think about and and maybe change maybe not but the other thing is that you know this   that we're having and the town has some negotiating power it has some influence but it doesn't have total power and it doesn't need to think worry about its influence because if this doesn't have to necessarily happen and you know like in any negotiation i go back to when i was on the school board negotiating with the teachers union you know you're here you're talking about a base increase to salary but you're also talking about health care benefits and you're also talking about vacation time and it's all merged into one final agreement and people might not agree with this or that specific but it's an entire agreement and this is part not entirely but this is part of the entire deal that does not necessarily have to happen the momentum is that it will happen i think it will i think it everybody wants it happens all very likely that it will but you know a lot of unpredictable things happen in these situations it doesn't necessarily have to happen so i've been i've been reviewing this in the mind of that you know nobody has to finally agree with us we don't have total power to tell the you know the sellers this is the thing that we want the licensing agreement and if you don't agree to it well too bad because they can walk away and absolutely and so i mean that's that's a thing what i would recommend though is it would it make sense for us to review  your policy statements and your line by line issues but perhaps by way of either in addition to the minutes so that everybody can see them in the republic grabs that would be  this is like making sausage and it's not me who's never pretty you know and it's you know and it's also very time consuming and i don't know that this meeting is going to be a time to go through it  you know what are the what's the foundation of what kind of agreement want to have and i think the foundation of the agreement is based on the him oh you know which is you know three of us agree with that and we're all fine but i don't agree with the currents in that sense and say that again i said the current the current so but my interpretation and i'm sure i'll be corrected if you think otherwise my interpretation of the way they've been working so far is that the town is acquiring this property for the purposes of continuing the catamount outdoor center you know with the exception of allowing pedestrians on the land but but basically buying it for the camera that was kind of the if you read them oh yeah that was kind of the onus of the town doesn't have the ability to manage the property it's already overwhelmed and there's a bunch of words in there about those kinds of things doesn't have the funds and therefore our goal is to is to the whole idea of coming up with policies is to make this process easier mean we can go line by line which is fine with me too i don't think it would take more than an hour but just coming up with those things that we want to see added the agreement you know tones ownership rights what rights are we willing to give up and give to a care provider program provider or fiscal responsibility and the oversight and it seems like struggling with this is seems to me to be a balancing act and what i mean by that is we have a license agreement and what the town which and what the town should expect if you will or maybe can  expect when to purchase this land versus on the other side is it's as ted said you know the other party can just walk away and losing this i don't know what to call losing the deal and i guess my point is that the license agreement may not may not be the ideal license agreement that we would all like to live with if we were buying a town force let's say from a different owner or different place in town or what have you but we've got to be careful here because in the sense that if we demand too much and in our own yielding in those demands we may very well never see how that can amount be having any sort of town ownership and i just want to be careful as we move ahead that we aren't losing sight that  on the other hand i don't want our ownership of the land to be so restricted that is it tom just yeah i look at it as looking out for the residents and so i thought if we could there's five of us right we come in we look at these things and say this is what we'd want and there's five that i've come up with any new people more experienced maybe have different sets of items or can add to the list but it seems like everything that we want out of this agreement is embodied kind of in that  are you folks also did this agreement start with that sort of i don't know how you start an agreement per se but did this agreement start with you know just some core ideas that  language that one side of proposed and the other side of the provisions are all pretty much standard purposes when i say privilege of being the the general categories negotiations and typically negotiations when you're done both sides are unhappy with their both parties to be recently comfortable with the result regardless of their level of happiness so that's you know it developed and as we were negotiating we also said that clearly this is subject to review and approval by the selectors and that was clear all along and we reached an impasse at one point because of the five year term we struck hard and then we had a meeting with jim and some of the conservation easement and of the license so that we didn't get to two weeks before closing after the trust of public lands spending hundreds of thousands of dollars and staff time and survey and title and environmental and all the other  costs with this project and then not having a license agreement worked out between the town and their family center and have to kill the project after we'd spent a lot of time so we wanted a shorter term time your review i know you said you've said before forgive me that i forgot what issue and to subpoena closing date for this well we had we had hoped to close by the end of june this summer and i think at that at this time that's an impossibility are you looking at closing this summer at some point or you don't we'd love to i know it's contingent on licensing but i mean with the rest of it yeah i know there's definitely lots of other moving pieces that we need to wrap up but i would hope that we can close  by september on the on on the other pieces that we should have handled has a full agenda for other bunch of issues coming up in later this month may fifteenth meeting is jam packed the meetings in june well these one packed the other one maybe not so much but i still think that it might make sense to reserve some time and i mean by time t from order for us to really do this justice i think rick has suggested and they agree a special meeting to do just this would be in order for us to do in the a twenty second perhaps have once again i'm not sure how to respond so i think we can move on that and and we'll try to resolve all these things on the twenty second will in the meantime we'll get the information from rick that we are looking forward to and going there because we're also to me looking at the management plan yes it's purchased so so we have a copy of the draft purchase and sale agreement it's a little bit helpful to have folks thoughts beforehand about what they like don't like about the agreement it might be the same about the management plan if you have concerns about the management plan you know let people know beforehand not to and so if people want them they contact you and what i'm suggesting is if you have a list of things you can send them make sure they're part of the package that's available to both the public and to the to her question so he has some questions and i think we're going to have she's here but i was going to suggest that we meet the staff meet with her you think there's a some basic misunderstandings a couple points know i think that there will be certainly some things that there's a huge disagreement on so you know i'm sure that stuff is not going to change your mind on some of the points you make but there are some issues that i think there may be a little bit of misunderstand we can clarify those then you can certainly communicate on the issues that you on feel are unresolved or want to make a point on to this like w just other curiosity or i'm trying to think of the fifty consecutive days when somebody gets a building or they're applying for a building permit zoning permit what is the what is the w understand so somebody who has let's say one point eight six acres in the medium density of the grid medium density residential but you know that part of town would they be able to have more than six chickens correct it would fall under the jurisdiction the organs that point would be it would be governed by anything in the bylaws as the say the bylaws then asked for further comment as well as this is right and they i change it to read preventative measures must be taken to restrict access and then just going along with i'd ever at the other table i'm just looking for thirty square foot maximum for property to that's that's kind of where this is going i mean obviously i think i've made it pretty clear i think this is a horrible idea but for so many reasons i think it's just not a good idea in such a small area and that's talking with a lot of professionals who go this is not a good is and then you're going to end up with taxes whenever the right wants to come in because they see your cute little package you look like a great snack those are things i worry about and if you've got four houses each with six chickens they can be an awful lot of stuff that's coming in and i would jump to the next section but i'll just bring up going to now i see that the amount of waste you can have this three twenty gallon containers where it was one before so like that is in the potential snow compost whatever if somebody has been doing this you could check raising chickens is that's a media lately there's an art form to it and i guess that's what i'm concerned about here is what we're opening ourselves up to with a scene which seems like a great idea that long term but the problem is that and the other thing to think about guys is one twenty gallon container is not enough for sixty six chickens for any length of time so i can see where this is not a very feasible thing the feedback from the other towns who do this like south burlington or i've reviewed their ordinances and put these together and there's a thing going to this level of detail in places like wearing if we got an early telling us we're crazy to go pursue this you know we're having so many problems book and this is in the did a very well i mean oftentimes these things start is great school projects that once the projects of any interest isn't there that's my fear that and because the public is not been adequately educated to what can go wrong if you mishandle those chickens in the spread of diseases and everything else you'd be better off doing this in cooperation with a farm somewhere and if you have six houses in a row that decide they all want their six chickens that's thirty six chickens and the way this is written but another however many gallons of chicken  you can't tell one house i'm sorry you can't have it because we gave three to the others you can't you can't meet your parents that way because then you've got a whole discrimination thing so you have to look at that if everybody decides they want to do this you have to look at the end result not just the one or two people that might want to do it but you can't leave you we there's nothing in here limiting rate the number of houses in a row or no i'm just trying to understand which are so i would agree erica the three containers  chip in knows what he's doing he's incredibly good at this stuff and i consider him an expert at it most other people that's a whole learning curve that i don't know that i want to see happening in the middle of the town that's me that's my two cents let me try to think this through so right now you can have any volume of food composting essentially that you want as long as it complies but if you had i have to composters you know that's what i need and that's for a family of three right now i assume that's going to exceed three times twenty gallon containers  i'm just i'm just exploring how would that be different than somebody who has chicken manure and they're trying to you know manage it the best way i don't know what the best way to you know they might choose to manage it they might compost it they might i don't know what if you could do without proper if you don't have somebody doing it the smell is going to be horrible not to mention the flies and everything else i'm worried about the person who doesn't know what to do and they create a nuisance and then you start having all kinds of issues and because premiers are so long to stop they say just i'm sorry i just don't think the middle of town is where you should be doing this kind of an activity composting i think that that's a whole different discussion to question differently and i'm don't read anything into this i'm just exploring a little bit it's permissible to have for instance six cats six dogs six my understanding of things that he says hoop you need at least you're close to six chickens so that's going to be more like the number somebody agrees to do it they're going to do it it's pretty few and far between somebody has more than one or two dogs and i think dogs do not create as much waste as chickens and they don't create the same issues i think there are there are apples and oranges  cats or six dogs or whatever else choose to live in the same and if there was an issue with that then we would have the authority to hold hearings on it and pass an ordinance and deal with it but that doesn't seem to be an issue making the assumption maybe it's a bad assumption something's working right from other towns south burlington being more and maybe it would be good to get some feedback to find out whether they have any issues with this ordinance whether comparable it's not well listed of course but you know we like them too but i can speak to some colleagues and none of the three comes a listers i guess with you know i think that probably the twenty gallons was modeled weeks ago that there was a state regulation regarding storage of manure you might want to check on that as well other factors throwing as we do have a compost has a relatively large scale compost facility located right here in town that i guess is an outlet for this material for you to  say i put this to one day and that would be called out and be the violation notice put in  that section and then i've added language here is if a public health nuisance issue is not corrected with in the day put in the town would have to the worried issue dependent the civil penalty up to the maximum that amount allowed under the ordinance started here with the day limits with other feedback i had from the board to expedite this process and these are red lines here so for them one of the other things i'm the concern also tied to a concern from joy was this idea that we were going to force or try to provide some education on this process that they shouldn't be taking this lightly that you know the inherent health risks and the processes and procedures can force people to be s but when a person comes in to apply for a permit they should get some education materials at that time you can't force a person to read them or apply them but at least you can give them the opportunity to learn i put the hearing should be held in twenty days just thinking logically for the time when it came in and when the export me maybe coming up people should know that they're getting it and even that fifty i wouldn't be in favor of going higher but i think that it does send something of a message that what about fifty in twenty five fifty initial twenty five or new or  greens but there's not nearly as much involved with your dog as there is with the chickens and the things that you're getting into like the goo and balls of waste and everything else i guess  i'm just not not seeing where the responsibilities that come with chickens might be that different than the responsibilities that come with owning another type of the salmonella that alone should be enough to and every health person tell you know bacterial type infections and pick up in your dog then you can from chickens and other animals so dogs are more expensive because you have to go through the vaccination process to make sure that you're sure of the date of the release of the rabies shots  dog but not as much as some people appear to want to be their feeling should be when i've heard the possibility of putting a fifty dollars fee for the initial permit to leave in the renewal attendance they have to do it passionately one thing fresh eggs from their own chickens still looks like we have two things that need to be adjusted before we actually send this to a public hearing  getting the most recent maybe there was a sudden rush of outlook and say well i don't know the reasoning but in any case that is an issue that will work around it will we have to get them some preliminary training and do some of the field training before they go to the academy and then they go they  is the board's agenda for may fifteenth was so i told the district we could really do it then but the problem is if we move it to the first meeting in june then the board really doesn't have time if it's not going to prove it to that night to think about it and vote on it later so you're kind of forced into either taking action or or or that it is that ok with you that's the question that isn't then we may have to schedule either add this to this special meeting on may twenty second or have a special meeting for it just this so that's the problem and that's actually something i prefer when possible sure i'm raising this because this would not allow for that on the other hand typically the board does approve it the same night that it's presented but i don't want to i didn't want want to make that assumption so is that ok to do that yeah i think it is i think having this on the special meeting that meeting is going to be jammed as it is and it's going to hurt address briefly if we have an opening up for the d or b alternative and john then soon assume used to serve on the d r b as express interest in that position i'm speaking with playing department staff it's it's very helpful to have someone in that alternate role was really with the processes of the d r v on that there need to be called upon to sit in and full of a quorum for those meetings staff as compared to bring that recommendation forward from the point at the next board meeting about interviewing him as well but i'd like time limit on it a short time limit there's a reason why we wouldn't because it's not like we have twenty applicants for every position we have a couple no but interestingly enough we seem to be having at least it's too good  there is there any other business before you go into executive session like this one thing we're now assigning the warrant i notice with there was an expenditure on the brennan born yes  i know we there's been historical discussion about that should we save the pond as it were saving the wheat so i guess mike my quote and maybe just did address this at a later meeting but two things i'd be interested in is what is the kurds sort of thinking of what's the best thing to do with the borneo how to what kind of meat and should it be getting next it's you know puts the what's the future of the bar i don't have an the repairs are pretty minimal and i struggle with that too you know but since we haven't decided to just tear down my day i said white will invest a tiny bit more money d out of our budget at that time which is what we're using i think right now to do the the repairs on that part of the reason to save it was because of the the the picture the joint inside the barn if you read the free press article a few weeks ago you'll find that there are several barns in williston that have exactly that type of joint one of them a situation where there's a couple others in town that have it as well so