for the list without administrative due process now to be clear there are instances where once an individual's hired there are there can be discretionary decisions made regarding background but only actually not at the very best it might be clear here in the fact that the law that's there regarding the standard as applied to the facts didn't occur here there's no findings there's a background investigation that occur but there's no allegation of the law forbidding the municipal code as it stands to any findings of fact so what's the standard of review there has to be a standard of review counsel in reality you can say there was no here and you can see there was an unfair hearing an incomplete hearing no findings but there was a clear i would argue there was no hearing before the or where  opportunity to have a full hearing evan entry hearing regarding the this that charges against him whatever happens to be whether it's some sort of honesty issue or even you know whatever that case you look at  own examination he was under the age of thirty five the way he was thirty two he ended up there on that particular list so at that point he had a legal interest he had a legal interest in making sure that in the event that they were going to remove him from further job consideration they beam or that there be some sort of due process that would occur to relieve them otherwise the whole point of the actually asking for a it's of be reversed or made so that there can be a complete record for the reviewing body to to look at  as has been there is no standard because there is no standard it's good that there are no findings of fact and when there's no findings of fact really in assets there is no record i know that we have the background investigation here able to make a determination of whether something was against the madness we do whatever it is that they're alleging there whether it's bad moral character or whether it's some personal habit that  perhaps maybe there's a standard that hasn't even been communicated at this point i don't know all we know is what the illinois statutes allow for what the guidelines are and there is a there isn't due process  send it back for the board to have a new hearing yes or no yes i am based m m u hearing they would make the determination presumably yes you're gets a yes or no question no one else was missing from the hearing the ability for my why to be able to cross examine it and determine what was going to come in this out as it was not there we don't know what happened in the supreme court you would try to find your answers to what happened when we don't know what happened with the board all we know is that there was a decision was rescinded there were meeting minutes is the board brings the evidence to the forefront of what that is and he's given an opportunity to prevent to present his own evidence or if there is testimony to cross examine whatever seventeen which deals with syrians related to discipline or promotion of full time employees after they have been appointed and after perplexed by that but nevertheless getting back to the threshold question that you're going to have to answer here at some point this morning is what specific findings were made here for us to review but what was the basis for their decision the basis for their review with with all due respect because it's in the record does not necessarily mean that that's a finding in other words if the board says because of background information because of a background check to me that's a conclusion if b if they said because of your background check and we found no use just as percs announces your prior clear say you're late all the time that's the reason you didn't do well on the polygraph but they don't tell you the other here we really didn't we saw you saying that if the board needs to find that you were being removed from the eligibility list based on the evidence presented our question has to be what  to determine that the higher this event background information is fairly substantial based on comments made by previous employers do you agree that if the board did consider this incident that took place in taken to consideration along with all the other materials that were there won't put you into the statute appears that you could not make your decision based upon that correct on the improper incident or these other factors could they justified probably did they justify it we don't know and were dancing around the issue but it didn't goes back to whether or not  employment situation he does not have the right to due process here in but the situation  to among other things a background check but they have no moral right all they have is your expectancy of position bay are no more rights than you would have as a provision or police officer because we had issues with whatever it might be that arguably not excluded circuit court could have looked at that and said that's a proper basis appeal to now but we all knowing whether it was an improper basis or a proper basis that they hung their hand on how do we sit in judgment of that or yeah there are considerations where they the letter and said we don't know but at this point the record shows you why why is it our obligation to search the record to support your position but again you don't really have since the record we potential insist that the board we live in that you have other negative things that you pointed out some of these comments from the other employers that they couldn't legitimately hunger had but we don't know if they relied  decision and it is our job been to review the record yes so we really didn't need to produce them we just reviewed the record and if we find independently that there was a basis proper evidence proper information whatever to support the board's finding that's the end of the scenario if on the other hand we search the record and find that there was not sufficient information we reverse us research whether or not we file greece or not but the producer file  work habits punctuality should there be standards for everything and give still went to what are you saying what are you what do you expect to find what's a sufficient standard that's those he would have met any of those five that means that we don't know we don't know what the you can find it's a back you don't know