anyway so we did hear some comments and we tried to incorporate your comments from the last session into our presentation and we'll be very interested to hear what else you would like us to include in the third session that we're going to have in because we can spend you know like hours discussing all these different programs and plans but we're going to just touch upon the briefly the major responsibilities n p r responsibilities of this board which is the metropolitan transportation plan our long range about the national highway system we're going to be talking today about performance measures and you know avoiding on the targets so that is all in fuel business and in the has to do with transportation in the county planning in the county that uses federal funding and the quorum you ask barbara so they're basically to have a quorum you have to have thirteen of the twenty four votes but in order to actually members excluding the transportation lines so the trans is not included in this that causes a quorum the majority of that and for a for any municipal plan in the planning process only municipal rail business disabled you can see them all here but you want to know that we don't have all thirty one people coming to every monthly meeting especially in those interest areas of the bottom there it's kind of some other sub element plans i think we kind of consider part of the medical the overall plan but very they may not be on the same schedule so they may come up in interim years responsible for voting on than indio and we briefly touched on those in there in the introduction that's our metropolitan transportation plan here in t p our transportation improvement plan or  more level just to our annual work work program is the actual projects that we are set to undertake in a given fiscal year and then we have our public participation plan that doesn't have to be updated on a regular interval but it is something we strive to keep rather current in our last version was adopted in twenty fourteen and this is just a diagram that's kind of letting you know how each of these documents talk to each other our public participation plan being a large overarching thing that dictates how we communicate these documents to the public and when you have  from there then surely getting funded and constructed and last thing i'm going to touch upon is just a little more detail on our long range or metropolitan  make our system to be in intermodal system that will accommodate us well i'm going to the future studies that we've the m t p and that these are projects that are to be constructed over a four year time period so it's a list of actual projects that will be back to be constructed in that time period it's based on real money that we expect to levels from two thousand and nine to present and what you can see the green are airport projects their products are listed in the tickets for information purposes and we don't control over those but the point of this chart is really just to show that it does vary a life year here and that's because it's if i die i am a group of projects that are trying to move into construction so you know averages about fifty million dollars per year in the programming will spending  coverts x sixteen improvements a whole variety of projects and laugh when i'm going to make it is so there is a tip talking about that there's also a step in the state transportation improvement program those are federal documents that are required by the federal government and they are planning documents that lay out the money to be spent over that time period there's also the state capital program and i think from the state perspective that's kind of a more important than their stamp because that's what they're actually spending money on so our projects have to be in the capital program and they have to be in the ten years are there any overlap between tip and step that the tip is wholly incorporated into the stand oh every one of the regulations require that so when so a lot of people we have a lot of confusion about that sometimes of something from the tip and people say we have to get it in the and the projects ultimately towards construction the process itself it's one of those things that is sort of always happening at some level usually from it's a late november we'll send out our solicitation to everyone in the county and say we are developing our work program for next year what are the ideas that you have for your town we also solicit projects from nami to support partners to help the city again achieve those identified goals and is kind of a review within that says you know how is this further a strategy or action of the plan so that's kind of the cross walk you know to kind of say oh this is going to accomplish x y z so that's how we kind of connect the planning document to the programming application right we try to it's not only think of it as a competitive grant program it's not it's based on the funny that we have available to help projects take a little bit longer sooner than others so we're able to reallocate some funds as as needed to help keep projects moving or jason mentioned our public participation plan as sort of that large you know proactive really continuous open collaborative we want people to know about what we're doing we want to hear from them on how we can do what we're doing better and there's different levels of the project they're working on for example a rewrite in twenty fourteen we are using the spectrum of engagement which came from a national public participation organisation we thought that well it would help us determine what levels of engagement we want to do depending on the type of project for example if we are just putting stuff on the calendar our website for putting out a newsletter that's just for facing stuff right that's we're just informing the public about what we're doing if we're going to move up the ladder a little bit different ways to reach out to them some different ways that we want to hear feedback from them not everyone can come to a meeting on tuesday wednesday at seven o'clock to lock them up and listen different ways to take advantage of the technology this there meet people where they are  c we really don't have many of the and power level projects i see those as more of them to support projects this is really a citizen led effort on west collaborative is sort of lockstep with our process  but now we're at this point where we can use that information and really go up in price who drives that process is there somebody in charge of each project that then drives down through those that well depending on the type of project right you can have implement your plan right right exactly these are so i'm just running high you're high you put is everything moved together and it's all even or can somebody comes in and says there's still an animal called locally manage so those projects once they get into the program they move forward so ok that that does is your question yeah put up but i'm taking a note that maybe we should delve into how a project actually becomes work that we're doing here the example you might ask go through yes yes or get would be happy to do that next time in your thinking on along those lines but i want to hear from you if you haven't and i'm also interesting that you know i remember there was a time in georgia may remember this because you've been involved in this organization a long time as as mike and andy and injury issues here i remember we used to have to borrow the city of burlington so white we had so many people that would come to the january meeting and talk about putting a project on or  b we always had we always had a situation where it felt like a feeding frenzy ok and then we had to learn how to say no to about forty percent of the projects that got suggested but i don't see that anymore  fundamental partly because we did a fundamental shift in how we do the people we don't want people to come up with wish lists we want to come in with real people and we also because it's central to anything that we do that the municipality be on board we wanted them to bring that to their municipality and see if that means palin is on board with us doing it and so i thought it was going worse i think that that kind of change in process we went from you know not getting it all and looking at what they want to do in their municipality and prioritizing it so i think it's made that whole process hopefully more effective but at least more efficient but we actually lose the creativity of some of the citizens when they when they dream up still we still get that input but a lot of it is in writing now jeff so we're getting a lot of comments via e mail that we share with the municipalities and their staff for them to think about like hey do you get three suggestions from a resident of y give an opportunity to members of the public to comment on items that do not appear on the agenda are there any members of the public who would like to make such a comment at this time  so does anybody wish to remove any items from the consent agenda during their motion i  with it's an agenda and second now we have a presentation with respect to transportation survey results that peter will introduce us so a little bit of background on this particular project we have now almost twenty years problem with the first one in two thousand so you won't see comparisons to that but the last three and two got things to go well for the most recent one we asked the same questions and got responses from good sample size that we can extrapolate ask second thing i want to and this is building off of what peter just said is what i am not going to show you here are the facts rather what i'm going to show you here are people perceptions of the facts this is what people perceive so if you see a number and you think hey that's not technically true this is what people are perceiving things to be so keep that in mind this is the public's view of the public and what we're going to do here is we're going to  little bit to the side that's ok we're going to go through the methodology real quick we use then we're talking a system wide results from there we're going to talk about the strengths and weaknesses by each of the four major votes and votes in your cold county transportation system of the four major modes with binding and driving walking bicycling and remote transit public transportation they were going to talk about the importance of possible improvements how people perceive valves and wrap it up with some initial conclusions we came to from the results ok we did a survey of five hundred residents of the county residents were mail it in a random sampling of residents were mailed an invitation to participate lines what we did to ensure that people didn't fill out a survey multiple times or what's become too common these days posted on social media as all the friends can fill it out is we putting any password the week the results to make sure the results are representative of the entire county now as far as the transportation people are using this is what people use most often those are the numbers from green to the left and what people would use in the past month not surprisingly driving is not what the majority of people drive in fact eighty four percent of people say the driving is the most transportation they use most often and interestingly enough sixteen percent of people said that they use afaik transportation your lips and more so than that sixteen percent we have thirty five percent of eighteen to thirty four year olds who say they've used that pace for her patients somewhere in the past now one other number we wanted to know more because it lines up with other numbers that we've seen is that there's been a slight drop in g m t usage it's down to twelve percent reporting versus sixteen percent in two thousand and twelve  which if you've seen any statistics come out of the amount transferred over the past couple years you see that rogers has gone down marginal what he did in those your special commuter transportation the three or four percent numbers you see is used most often is very much in line with analysis the from here we asked people to rate their satisfaction with shipment kind of transportation system overall so keep in mind this rating it's countywide were gross of whether you live right in the middle of burlington or if you live   improvements in people's attitudes toward bicycling and it's also supported by positive results we're seeing back from green mountain france and from walking those seem to be largely carrying all of the driving numbers which are a little bit lower now this next year i'm going to take a minute on this isn't even really a chart it's more private explain some of the charts you're about to see what we did is we asked people to rate how satisfied they were individually with your four major modes read not transit bicycling walking and driving and then we have people a series of activities within each of those cattle and how satisfied they are with each of those that are being the more satisfied if you're in a sea of the following charts the more satisfied somebody was with an satisfied with it and it has a significant impact and that is that is one of your strengths you do well at this with agencies i work with i do tell them interesting little to focus on the top left these are things that have a significant impact on satisfaction but you're not doing as well or it's as if you were not satisfied it's a weakness this is an area you should focus on now in all that being said i'm not saying you don't focus on anything that falls for the bottom of the chart it's not that these are not important it's just that they're not key drivers they are not the key drivers that are driving people satisfaction and the first example of this is we asked people to rate or most overall and you'll notice in the top right corner of the sea walking people are satisfied walking now when we talk about satisfied walking we're talking about satisfied walking countywide and it has a significant impact on people's overall satisfaction with the air from walking in fact  this is brought up in our discussions i was thinking about this i looked into it we talked about satisfaction city residents eighty seven percent of city residents are satisfied with walking in the area compared to seventy seven percent of suburban or rural residen other numbers to focus on here driving driving is a flip side driving is probably the areas we need to have a very large impact on people satisfaction but your ratings are not as high right green mountain transit kind of grabs in the middle it does have a significant impact on people's attitudes but whether it's a weakness or strength it's right on the line where you can find one or the other the fourth that's very interesting is bicycling people satisfaction in bicycling has been improving over the past twelve years i'm just becoming more and more more important to people now first and i know there's a lot of stuff here solved save you some trouble and focus on the key attributes number one attribute as far as driving goes people perceive driving as safe and it has a significant impact on people's overall satisfaction your weaknesses in terms of driving or the conditions of the roads and bridges in the area and neighborhood streets as well in addition traffic discussion we've had about how yeah they noticed that work in the area one comment is when you do work in an area you bring your attention to look so i didn't realize that with problems like salt construction that's a possibility mind you that's also interesting it's a little bit odd because all of these things are appearing on the top of this chart meaning all of these have an impact on people's satisfaction with green mountain trails that these bases were asked of everybody whether or not you are part of that twelve percent of people who ride green mountain transit three percent who brag regularly everybody was asked what actual reason you satisfied with and b and they said people are satisfied generally satisfied with the system it does have a significant impact on people's overall satisfaction with your transportation system as a whole but people having a little time trouble separating things out as to what's really important to them versus what's not if we were able to measure this among drive among riders i'm sure we'd see a much greater spread  weaknesses of the system getting me to where a b to b when i need to get there and it's reliability i do a number of studies with transit agencies throughout the country and these are always the key attributes it's on time we've seen also some down some improvement in the number of sidewalks and these are sidewalks both of people we have both in people's neighborhoods and throughout the county but it's still you numbers are better than the war but they're not high enough now bicycling what i meant to do before about three month transit how these things are all clustering together we're seeing we're seeing even more that with bicycling where people bicycling isn't as important as other things are driving to really like the idea of bicycling but they can again separate out what are the key attributes one area you have to a great deal of improvement all that being said is the number of bike racks in two thousand and twelve only forty two after weeks after we had people rate different attributes we then started talking about the difference that haitian initiatives what's important to people what's not important people and we did a thing we did literally dozens of different possible initiatives and these initiatives  from highway initiatives to safety initiatives to preserving your current of the structure after we ask people about all these initiatives we then after people say of all of these different groups of initiatives we've been talking about what  hundred points and divide them up to what you would give the most weight what's the most important far and away the number one thing for people was preserving the condition of what the issue of the roads bridges sidewalks that number since two thousand hundred study is not only the number one thing for people is that in the number one thing for people now as i said we asked people to rate dozens of dozens of different possible improvements we're not going to sit here and go through all this today i could probably get through my ten pm try so instead what we're going to do is hit our key things the things that people really felt are most important first of those as we said preserving existing facilities people are already within that group is fixing bridges that are poor condition you remember earlier how poorly  it shows up here again paving roads preserving bridges those things are not only hire people to list of importance they've been trending upwards terms of people's portals again perceived importance to people  and we talked about the importance of expanding public transportation services and facilities real time information there's been a huge increase in the interest in looking and receiving realtime bus information a lot of agencies around the country are facing the same issue and attempting to deal with the same issues so you are hardly unique in this regard to people's interest or having to having to tackle this issue even though safety and green mountain transit is remembrance of performing very well in terms of safety blighted shelters are definitely a safety thing i hate if you have somebody with a like a lighted shelter or not people are more apt to not say yes interesting as well  seen a decrease in the number of those who consider having public transit express transit available to market ride lots to be essential for new people consider transportation public transit to park ride lots of the important not nearly as many considered to be essential as happened look express routes so i think fewer people are saying oh this is an important thing we need to add to people recognizing we have a pretty robust system in place so that's why we're seeing them what we think is the reason for their downward trend in the number of with have a coherent explanation for why that might have dropped from thirty five to twenty three river certainly has been development in downtown areas into it centers so maybe people perceive that as having been to address to some extent o roads and even then you only have a little over forty percent of people who consider it to be very impor now the next couple slides on our community the next slide we're going to talk about commuter benefits we asked people both what is available to them where they work and if it's available you can manage it what just by the way does not so the frequency with which they do things only they take advantage of it is not the most interesting number we see on here there's all those who work in places that offer telecommuting we're seeing that thirty seven percent of people currently work in a place that offers telecommuting that's up  six percent in two thousand and twelve and only thirty seven percent of people who work in a place that offers telecommuting you've got twenty nine percent of people who take advantage of telephone so they telecommute some amount in that could be once a month they could be five days a week the twenty nine percent again is up from sixteen percent in two thousand and twelve the other big numbers you see here free and subsidize parking that shouldn't be a surprise and you do see a slight increase in the amount of people who both receive and take advantage of  trips they currently take rather they're using the internet for shopping bills or for work that's seventy six percent is up from sixty one percent in two thousand and twelve and fifty seven percent in two thousand and six so people are definitely rather than going to the brick and mortar stores they're shopping online revenue work to telecommute support for ten tax increases it's increased since two thousand and twelve now when it comes to currently if you look at people who strongly agree vs strongly disagree that they would work increasing gas taxes to pay for highway transit bicycle and sidewalk projects combined twenty five percent strongly agree with that versus twenty eight percent strongly disagree with that why that's interesting if you start reading just go highway projects resident twenty five percent agree twenty percent disagree and drop to fifteen percent strongly agree thirty three percent strongly disagree so you going from twenty five twenty eight percent to fifteen and thirty three percent so if you add in the transit bicycling a sidewalk projects you're much more likely to get people's  not going highway all our inclusion first talking about walking walking is a strength eighty percent of people are satisfied with walking within shipman county as a whole there are opportunities for you approve providing enough sidewalks in improving condition of those sidewalks leveraging the number of people who can currently walk to work or school or to other places walkability now the flip side of that is driving that's all that's a weakness of the area reducing traffic congestion condition in traffic just now when we talk about public transportation there is an opportunity here there are a lot of people who don't ride but it definitely improves people's perception of the transportation system that it's there  runs well drop or too nice for improvement on time performance provide efficient connections operate when eden where a mode of transportation is only good to me if it can get me where i need to go when i need to get there and interestingly providing mor bicycling is an area to watch fifty nine percent of people are satisfied but it's up front i believe it was fifty percent in two thousand and twelve your opportunities to improve there i separated these out making bicycles safer children versus leaving bicycling safer teens and adults because obviously those are two somewhat separate she's having enough separated bypass improving the condition of bike paths and providing enough bike racks which is an airy sort of repeal approve that the behavior we're trying to change transportation and it's you know things like having some form of better reliability more service to my town more hours or so i can infer that from this i mean something more pointed about what would it take to get you out of your single i'm thinking in my mind kind of like something rather different different and it's awfully hard to think of the more valuable to to talk about the more heavily populated part of the county but what we do  the cost of gas it's not practical to go into that premise of raising the price of gas because in these rural communities when you go up the northeast kingdom they don't have the opportunity to get on g m t and get so close and get to do that cars are necessary evil in the state so we'll look statewide and then the other thing is i'd like to hear from outside shouldn't county how they feel about that stuff traveling through it to people either new york they're taking you know coming here for work that foundries people from other counties washington kind of the will county as a i think the state has some sort of public opinion survey that they've done sometimes i don't know if there's another one coming up or just did one in twenty sixteen and we usually do it similar to what you do in advance  trying to do to address i just think we'll look bigger picture here beyond beyond this i can also mention the trans is at the beginning stages of that statewide public transit policy plan which i'm managing for them and we're about to do a larger public outreach component will be a meeting hosted at c c r a p c at the end of november and we're going to be doing statewide online survey there's going be a lot of material about that's asking people for their policy priorities and for specific things that can be done to encourage people to use public transportation so we're going to be using social media a lot to get the word out for that and certainly work with your p c s to get as much public engagement as we can on this issue it's not going to be i will get that out if we have it already in our newsletter and other ways that i think would be really interesting is people's perception of infrastructure condition versus what we actually know that your perception is consistent with the actual data on that subject how it looks not have it actually this bridge over here is a great example in the news people perceive it as being really bad because the railing is crumbling and falling apart but when you actually look at the structural condition of the bridge it's in point we can certainly look at community the one thing we need to be careful of we have enough residents suburban city suburban rural to be able to walk out on their own cases where we try looking at some numbers we do just work and not within a specific favor of the motion say i i oppose have it thank you very much since we're unanimous we don't get a recall correct we every year look at the do and policy of looking at the employment cost index i think it's for new england so it's kind of the cost of local government employees  and how that goes up and it's been typically going up you know two plus percent or something and so you if you look at the table attached to this memo you'll see the two point three increase and how that breaks out for your on the far right there's a column that says fiscal year nineteen if it's funny sent change does that change include both the annual changes to the grandest value and the two point three percent increase that's right so that is the total net change including both grand those changes and the proposed percentage increase and what would result right yes so  simple two point three everybody would go up two point three but if you can see here that you know there's a few towns burlington south burlington and willesden that had six town had much higher than average gramma's growth so there's are going up over three percent or two to three four percent and there are even some towns that are going down because their gravest growth was so much lower than the average in the in the county so any discussion is there this is a sources but is there a uses for these funds issue does this just go into the regular pretty close to two hundred thousand dollars of this goes to matching m p o spending so the staff work that we do the work is the vast majority of this the rest may go to questions comments so i think they kind of tried to give a heads up last month i think there is a commission on that to fifty call in the next fifty years that the legislature formed in two thousand and seventeen they are producing a report december fifteenth twenty eighteen i think look at sharon occasionally i think you're part of the advisors to that process and so the notion and we've had some discussion of the executive committee about this was that we probably should have a committee that's kind of prepared to start looking at what that commission recommends and be able to provide feedback to the legislature as appropriate and maybe maybe find it maybe just in christe james i hear but i'm pretty sure he did so i guess the question is there anybody else that really is dying to dive into the subject or even if they're not  way to get to know what we do than serve on a committee because we're a committee organization and this is not you know the old title and be a member of any club that accept me as a member this if somebody becomes interested in participating please let us know there's always going to be the opportunity participate either informally or as a as a member of the committee they presented at the your prior meeting the d c has been working with our r p c the and residents as well as other our pc's upstream watershed groups and other individuals crafting to the water quality and increased amount of funding and especially because of link champlain phosphorus issues with the whole issue that i talked about last time of the t m t how and tracking these improvements and using the bas plans as a vehicle by which the t m deals are to be achieved so again a very comprehensive document saw the last meeting and walk through the various elements of the plan addition of course into providing input into the plan which we've done to stop level and through our clean water advisory committee we're now at the the primary so the purpose of the end of state is to deliver a letter to d c on the conformance of the basin plan with the regional plan so this draft here was work through the clean about clean water advisory committee and the executive committee also looked at it and as noted in the memo both the committees recommended adoption of the others so i won't go into detail but i will hit the highlights here so the first page just gives you that chart we just get the highlights of what changed getting in page two what we really do is just highlight ok there's the basin plan top objectives and strategies which i outlined and what goals and strategies in our egos plan do they link do they link to so as you can see many of the strategies page to page three and in do and into four they link oftentimes to our street our strategy number three which is improving the safety water quality and habitat of our rivers streams what lands in the lakes in each watershed with with quite a lot of detail and there's some linkage as well to plan which is another significant portion of our county we have a loyal base in the northern portion when you ski base in the central and southern and then what's called the direct to lake small streams  and on a way to categorize co benefits similar to the t b i process so hazard mitigation or transportation improvements so you fix a major bridge that carries a lot of traffic you know at the same time you aid the water quality and stop the roge and so that adds a benefit we do make a a pretty strong statement number two that some strategies are more important than others if if phosphorous is really the goal in the is staring us in the face for these next twenty some years then then the plan should really say that so yes invasive as a concern we don't want to forget about it but if if if we really have this eight hundred pound gorilla in the room let's let's note the fact that a hundred pound gorilla and recognise that some strategies are more important than others and then comments regarding you know some some realism or how many of these projects are really going to be done in the next five years with additional recommendation and three continued emphasis on also some funds for project development risk as i mentioned there's well over a thousand projects in the watershed projects database there's a lot of projects that have been identified but have not been visited by an engineer or a river scientists who are checking in with the landowner like would you even want somebody to plant trees next to the stream or fix this culvert or move destro or whatever so and then lastly a strong a strong emphasis on page five and six on the need to recognise that spending millions of dollars at a rate of roughly you know forty five million dollars a tonne to get that one ton of phosphorus out of our sewer plants is not really cost effective  and so there needs to be a recognition of that that's yes improvements upgrades improve maintenance graduate upgrades yes can certainly be helpful but if we're going to if we're going to focus to growth in the areas with our services with our waste water and we need we need to recognize that they're causing requiring significant expenditures of of funding just to chase another ton of phosphorus when you could much better spend that money somewhere else to get to get the best bang for the book and so that's how the letter concludes and as i say will make some minor staff comments on formatting or other additional recommendations but this is the letter which you guys adopt will be transmitted to the secretary tomorrow and on the table on page five there's a list of various sectors compassed by the natural resources sector so what kind of i mean only so is there going to be another iteration that's going to be put out for comment or is there this when you decide what you're going to do that that's what the end thing is going to be ok and there's not a process either so what they do typically in this response in the service summaries is they go through the comments and they either will point out how it was already addressed changes that have been made to further address it or why they don't think i know james this is this is more this isn't yes this is a little bit different because this is a big ticket item going forward and so that's why i was asking have seen some mentions of the news about that there are a few things that are p c staff were involved with we had a meeting with secretary flay and there was another meeting with a bunch of the commerce leadership in we do ski  the commissioner of the department of public service met with us to talk about the energy planning work so it was kind of nice for the bring the state agency leadership up to the judge and the county and have some good conversations and from what i c looks like based on the snapshot surveys that brooks do that is ticking back down so kind of watching that still and then on the flip side that the affordable housing goal we should be a two hundred eighty zero ohms were at one hundred ninety one so not quite meeting that twenty percent of the percent of the new units being permanently affordable and at the bottom is kind of a call for more housing local housing trust funds full funding for ph the b and zoning changes and other things that we've been working this pallet so also credit to regina i don't think this is on here but there's doesn't have the nonprofit management but it has the financial restrictions yeah fifteen to twenty five percent of the units in a private project at a time so the mall had a higher target self imposed the majority of worst workforce housing projects that are privately developed fall into the lower requirement of fifteen percent don't get a certificate of occupancy until you demonstrate that you've offered them and there's a process where you have to offer the units first or make them known that they're available to champlain housing trust so that they  formal application but so they've been taken in but out of the trick vehicles and energy efficiency so i think they all report back to the legislature on electric vehicles july so it were kind of at least monitoring and maybe you know offer some comments since we spent all that work on energy planning over the last year and a half so just so you're aware of that you know anything we submit to them will be consistent with the plan that we calendar on the back of the agenda you'll see december eleventh seven thirty to nine am traitors to full style old double tree but still traitor dukes where we share with the bankers less guess not this year emma has worked very hard to make sure we're not sharing our breakfast not that there's anything wrong with sherry but i think was a little hard for inside out on the legislators and it was hard for them to pick and choose  so you can put that on calorie then you know i think we have some topics that we have been kind of routinely talking to them about you know whether it's kind of the water quality issues in funding housing  transportation about segment probably one thing i want to make sure they're at least aware of and maybe talk about is that eighty dollars and study which will be starting up in twenty nineteen is going to be a big deal for  us and then of course what comes out of the active fifty commission which we won't know by that practice but kind of a heads up that we have an interest in providing them some input on the other and the other things that you think we should be addressing with our legislators at that breakfast coffers things like that so we can get remind them was going to look at that we do have we have presented them some of you know kind of are our part of the state's economy picture you could review that quickly again or at least have a handout on outside of church and county and so there's been a lot of focus on that and i think the whole focus should also be emphasized which is yes and in the meantime you know don't kill the golden goose here you've got one area that's that's generating growth in generating revenues for all of your state programs so we need to continue to encourage responsible economic growth inch and county while the rest of the state strategize is how to get them out of them out as far as growth goes mr chair i'm believing that there has been inflection point which has moved in the negative direction because of trouble with some of our economic drivers and northwest from  and so it may be worthwhile to point out to them that we haven't had the best last year so layoffs in higher education we've got some right sizing at some of our major manufacturers and those types of things and i think if you look at the trend data it's not a pretty picture point that you just can't assume that it's always going to be there without which it is i believe starting to have a statewide impact and then the last s is just you'll see at the back is what we have for the upcoming meetings so just at the call that attach to your packet or various committee for two that go back to the old days when you could cut across you know we have not had to be honest with you we really have not really got involved with the site planning aspect of this because we're commenting you know a  couple minutes before midnight on these projects that particular project will leads to you right now you have patrick jim in guterson and there's a little parking area that sticks in and they're going to be filling in there with a new basketball court events that is is going to have the same seating capacity as the current patrick gym but it's going to be an upgrade in facilities and they're going to share some some sweets or whatever at the top and then the existing patrick gym is going to be more multi use space but so that project is really limited to the footprint of that project and was within they have a global parking requirement that they have to stay with it so that it's with that we did ask some questions about is this going to increase the capacity of the facility and was i going to create any traffic in back so we did have some back and forth of that but that was the issue