i may have totally wrong case in mind but it's every member of this one is about a child molester and sexual assault and the likelihood that a lawyer filing something seems so low i wonder what it would have been successful seem so low that i wonder if there was any prejudice yes you actually this particular individual is not a child molester was convicted of the sixty seven point six miles from which is annoying or molesting a child hi to a kid every afternoon when he's walking home from school that could be the case or any of those factors have not been litigated in this case before the immigration judge the government has the burden under the modify categorical approach to establish but there's no knowing that hasn't been done reasonably likely to be granted like them nineteen year olds with fifteen year old girlfriends and some like cases where relief was highly unlikely to be granted like nineteen year olds with four year olds yes  and so that's what i don't understand the first petitioners argument that he thought his application had everything that it needed he knew that he didn't get his record back he requested it three months before so again had his counsel even submitted the application on time it still would i would think the client would think his lawyers are going to take care what needs to be taken care of my clients did not hound me about whether i was complying with discovery deadlines and getting the right documents filed and i would have told them quit wasting my time if they had i don't understand that part of your argument the other part i don't understand and i'm telling you just so you can educate me so i do understand it is the  council may be in part to blame the record reflects at the response it was granted a fair opportunity to meet his responsibility and he does not argue that he contacted the immigration court to notify the immigration judge of any difficulties now it's a trial judge those calls were not put through to me we don't take calls behind lawyers backs about how the clients think their warriors should be doing this and that and in the state supreme court in the state district court it was the same way they just expect a certain amount of nagging annoying phone calls from clients specially out of the jail and they ignore me tell me where you got a lawyer i don't understand i think that's what your point of meant by saying there's no mechanism i don't understand what the guy is supposed to do once he puts it in the hands of a ward well i'm not sure that he was supposed to contact the court to complain about his lawyer he had actually met with second counsel s having difficulty getting the documents or getting in touch with this council or having a problem in any way meeting the two and a half year deadline to apply for the waiver to let the court know that perhaps you know what he did now i'm not sure how that immigration judge two and a half years earlier requests of the documents and he knew that he had to have them two weeks before his hearing and he knew that he didn't have them i think it was incumbent upon him to notify his counsel who he had met with that i have not received the documents necessary to go forward his second counsel is the one who explained that he didn't listen to the tape of the first immigration proceeding and tell them morning up and that's when his second counsel realized that they were late with the application however he hasn't submitted any was not a requirement  bit as my questions to you are based on a background of knowing the rules and the district court where i was and others that i'm aware of which is once a person's represented by counsel he cannot file anything his lawyer files half filing papers that's how you know to fight judges of desires and demands to information and whatnot  and you don't get to just walk into court and say judge i have something to say and i know i'm trying to figure out are the rules different immigration courts or somebody to actually physically contact the judge i am not aware of any i and again i don't think we're dealing with situation where this petitioner needed to notify the immigration judge that he was having problems with his attorney this was the second attorney who he had met with and so it's not a function of him not being able to communicate with his an attorney if he should have notified his attorney that he didn't have the documents necessary to accompany his application for relief and in that situation then this petitioner could have notified his counsel on the counsel could then have requested from the court either an extension to gather the documents or notify the court that there was a problem