concern whether the spam x product automatically associates a disposable email address that was created by the product once it's washed with a  question is properly framed and then answer should have been that once the spanish program is activated does that program associate an alias with disposable e mail address with a alias email the domain of the web page is automatically captured in fact a spam mix of pains the the web pages of domain it happens when the program is launched without requiring the user to determine or manually enter that web pages simply pops up on the screen the alias the web pages domain are automatically brought into a relationship and that's what the the district court defined associate to mean to bring into relationship parties or agreement about that and that happens the time that we have a create address for the for the spam ex pro graham and the contemplated for eighty one patent describes exactly that process is illustrated in exhibit six to the green declaration which was offered in support of click views emotionalism or georgia or non infringement the spam expressed specifically identifies the website parsing the web page that's associated with the entity that's making the request so without the automatic association to the web page the program is going to go no further and the users optional ability later in the in the stream actually both products do this to make changes to the domain name or to add manually add more than one to me but don't change the automatic association dollar simply an option but  the one or more than one logical construct that college nat and resume from both address resonated dresses up in this one the term website is an obstruction and we have actual testimony from the inventor in this case mr macintosh from page one ninety eight he describes it from a computer scientist point of view what we're talking about when we talk about a domain or a website is a collection of web pages so when comes it refers to the fact that you've got an automatic association with a web page or more than one web page the abstraction here is that a website is simply a collection of these web pages the web page that the user is looking at when they were quest to provide an e mail address is made is what kicks off both of these programs the programs going to shade unless you're looking at a web page that's  page all right so when we when we talk about this obstruction what are we doing we that and we dedicate the use of either a program to an entity what you're trying to do is you're trying to respond to an entity that is is hosting this this web page and is asking for an email address you're trying to dedicate an alias e mail address a disposable e mail address that that  entity will then respond to so that you were actual e mail address isn't cluttered up well that that process of automatically associating with the web page or the main site whatever it might be it programs in the same manner reforming the same function and coming to the same result both literally and by the doctrine of equivalence are associating with the web page and whether it gives its par i understand the way the two systems work suppose that just to take a an example i'm real life and i click on two expedient dot com and i'm interested in a number of transactions in the course of of it's sitting that site and several of the different pages that i this that each request a and e mail address from me if i understand spam x crackly that will create a different email i'm sorry spanish will create a single email address for the entire domain and each time i'm e mail address for each of those pages correct if it actually does not necessarily have to do that for each of those addresses it what it does is the patented product of forty one product well will identify and par careful here to make sure the various crimes the patented system correctly now your assertion is that the patent system doesn't necessarily create different email addresses for each web just where they end up that is do they end up creating a single domain related to new e mail address or did they create and it does it create an e mail address that specific to each web page my understanding of the invention was that it did the latter and you're telling you now know it as the former one of your honored that the in fact the invention creates an alias e mail address that will will attach to each of the specific web pages that are enemies in each of those addresses different at each of those addresses can be different but it also can it can attach to the to the broader web domain because has the entity that's making the initial request is the entity that is associated with the web page that first made that request so if it's made multiple times your honor in relation to what you're asking and this by the way separate one is that there's a separate e mail address for each web page that makes the request as that is i don't know is it a different alias web page the unique to each one of the web pages associated with each web page yes and i know the end of the the send email messages to the user and addressing each targeted web page so it's a separate e mail address for each web page so and that web page is dedicated to that alias and the actions of the web pages is dedicated to the entity the the actual wording of the patent is that  an association is made automatically that is dedicated for use by an entity that has so see a web page all right and that the automatic application of it happens without additional user input or intervention the program is locked and the analogy that was made in college now about the automatic association is just that once the program is launched and on either either competing product you click create have an additional feature which permits that to be automatically populate that field automatically with regard to all web pages in the same domain yes but that doesn't defeat the limitation at all because according to college not and according to tate access and others it can the word dedicated to an entity can mean one entity or more than one entity in the same in the same manner that a web site hosts multiple web pages by definition it has to if i could return to the question that you and i were discussing a moment ago  different new e mail address to each web page is principly column tim blinds twenty eight through looks like about thirty seven or which says that the converse even the e mail forwarding address requests so forth the system determines if an email forwarding address r t exists in the user's account that is associated with the web page address the u r l right just for your  in the email forwarding address if the such and email forwarding address does not exist in the database the database server creates a new standard for ingress that is automatically associated with the web page address l and assigns properties to the mail forwarding address which suggests to me at least maybe i'm not reading this correctly suggests to me that if the system does not find a and email address that it's specific to that u r l then it creates a new one why isn't that the correct reading of that passage specificity with regard to this but or perhaps even lack of proper terminology in usage when you are attaching the we are automatically associating i want a hotel in burley and it so happens i don't think this is really the way expedia works but it so happens that each of them requests my email address they want your email address and they want to  determine whether you have already i know dozens automatically whether you have already associated an alias email address with that particular world or weapon ok i have never visited expedient before so one create three email addresses for me or one i put my understanding of the system is the the forty one system will look at the u r l and determine by and again for matters of technical i think this is a matter of of technical concern that illustrates why perhaps summary judgment on this aspect of the claim limitations an appropriate i'm with by that that the email address which attaches to the entities dedicated for use by the entity would apply to the entity to the domain that is associated with the entity and while the forty one patent allows more specificity that the actual process and we just start right from the beginning mr block and see if you get the same answer to my expedient question that mr chamberlain and i had a whole long presentation but i would be more than happy now you know  if there is there product creates three separate emails couple forwarding email addresses ok now it's you know of that ok i thought that would probably be your short answer now for the slightly longer version right mr chamberlain said immediately before he said down that you disagree with with respect to the way he got to the conclusion that the forty one patent is during any internet session where a user is viewing a web page that's important then include a prompt for an email address in method of creating a forwarding an email forwarding address to said user now web pages was defined in the martin determination as a single web page which may be part of a larger body known as a website so based on the claims the forty one patent will create a  in a car i could be wrong on this but assuming your are set in each domain each website it for each location is asking for a nother for an email address under sin spa it will be the same email you can use the same email you don't have to you don't even have to use an associated email will get to spam x in a second but it's one domain it's one disposable in mail for all the whole domain where you can choose to do that for for the forty one pan it's a different email address which is put into a fold so that you can have one for actually one strike that it's a different email address for every web page as part of that website which is unique to each one of those pages exactly and because of that it's a spam x is not the forty one pounds it's not infringing on the patent on a really good use  that domain so if you use a domain it will it doesn't go to the web page you can choose to use multiple where i'd disposable email addresses for the same domain or you could use that for one disposable or forwarding email address at issue but but the systems don't work the same if i did what is the difference and at that point the difference is how this how the email the house spam excretes the disposable email address how how it is the steps that are taken for that this is this association aspect and whether or not it's automatic is separate the application merely opens up that website the user must launch the application for spam x the user must choose to create an email address they must either accept default or complete a questionnaire the user must  accept the creation of the email and then only then is the disposable email address associated with a with the provided information on necessarily the domain or even or anything else it's just to provide information you don't have to use spam ics it's not about creating this disposable email for for web pages it's for creating disposable e mail for anyone who asks for e mail address whether you're joining a bar association they're asking for  address whether friends want an email address or associate or whether a website want a domain request in the information it's not the focus is not on domain it's on the creation of this web of this if this disposable you know address it's a different it's a different focus for the system there's there's nothing really automatic here because you have to put in the fields or accept the fields it's a different it's entirely automatically associated are those words directed to plain one setting up this arrangement or does the automatically associate refer to the kind of situation that exists after wasn't as clear as it should have been let me ask you let me ask you try and automatically associate assume for the moment that someone has what does automatically associate referred to does it refer to the process does it exist in the process of creating in forty one an email forwarding address ok or does or automatically associated referred to the email address being automatically associated after one has a stablished the for an address under the patent the formerly need all the steps go together it's the creation that the email  created with regard to that the the forwarding e mail is created with regard to that where it looked in looking at it i mean i was raised as a unique email for his restless and for the user that  or will be automatically associated with said web page example in a lot of that in other words after you've said earth this forwarding address that goes to the target email address if you go back to the website at no point in their initial brief to the ever challenge that the definition of associate found with an associated on unnecessary automatic with the definite amount of the associated with this is this this is litigation this is appeal by ambush if we had if this was addressed previously we could have dealt with humanity college minutes and how to materials that kind of book by putting it in their reply papers and not including the marking papers so there can be an analysis of what actually was argued bloat and the determination by the court it's completely inappropriate just just as an emphasis or to demonstrate why this was not even an issue until the requirement as a college it was never cited to the below or in the initial brief the argument presented in the reply is therefore raised for the first time the action the the the markham determination order is not in the event them to the initial brief and in fact the record on appeal contains none of them are concerned missions it's just  wrote this application or this attempt to apply culture that to to the term is something that is really i believe an attempt to challenge the martin's term are you referring to that there they said previously there's no claim construction challenge now they are challenged exactly and this is not the first time they did this interview in their new shop or read their race for the first time  we might be i would like to point out to the court that immaterial college not dealt with the term automatic defining but merely upholding the definition of the term as once initiated the function want without the user interaction spandex doesn't create a disposable e mail without user interaction and spanish doesn't associate or doesn't even put in a definition until the user authorized it therefore the automatic undercliff collegian it doesn't now there is another issue here that has not been addressed and that is the dedicated  a females can be dedicated for multiple site a means that the user can it can dedicate this for any sate it wants it does any any website it wants any domain it wants it's not one particular website only by the website the website itself is also free to a so to disseminate that and other people can use this problem is what is it in the looking at the claim again back to claim one where the source said email forwarding address being dedicated for google website or web page and it's the same email address isn't still that your address dedicated for use by only one web only one domain then that that it didn't get any further mean soley exclusive it will been maybe it's the judge who go further that didn't say solely and exclusively for use by just one definition was solely and exclusively for use correct that says ok this is only for use could there not be some other purpose well email is limited to the use of the disposable him out for so many exclusively for that web page that website actually not web page hispanics at the web page that website then the answer is this doesn't apply because spam x in no way limits the use of that disposable in mail for anything now if we're looking at it as what about this the party that you've the web page the domain the domain there is no limitation that the web page that the domain use that disposable e mail only for themselves to contact the use it th there is no limitation on their abilities to disseminate it so if you look at it from any standpoint there is no soul in exclusively or dedication by spammers it's just doesn't exist it's not a  being dedicated for use by an entity associated with said web page not cover the case assuming let's assume the entity in question is expedia not the particular web page but expedia and expedia is associated with all the web pages in the domain therefore why doesn't this language being dedicated produced by expediency which is associated with the particular web page what but isn't that cover that sort of case the language because if i understand your question because there is nothing in hispanics which limits expedia to use it just by itself was a considered a domain determination well expedia or google or yahoo have is a domain that has multiple web sites and web pages within that domain that's right under the forty one pat needs one of the websites i would have a different and unique email address exactly it would be courts claim construction and application the term automatically is contrary to control are you perhaps challenging claim perhaps were not perhaps it should have more artfully or or the email address and here is the application and this is what college net is relevant to without additional user input or interaction of the time of the association other words the fields are being it in college no the fields were being automatically input when you when you hit the button that said you know insert all of the information on the on the college applications same is true with regard to the spam exploded in the forty one path and the association is automatically made whether it's made through your or domain and your are hit on exactly what the limitation is and why this isn't infringing product it dedicates the alias email address for use plan entity not play a web an entity that is associated with the web kate so what the forty one patent does is it the limitation is that you associate the alias email address with the entity that is associated with the web page to determine the entity the process that both products go through is that all all web pages of the same domain ar presumed to be associated with the same entity and it is the forty one patent the u r l determines the entity the patent uses the u r l and then in practice all web pages at the same domain are generally part of the same entity in response to your honor's question was it three or one let's assume that that the forty one pattern contemplates than three separate alias email addresses for each of those separate web pages if in fact they are separate within expedia or within probably your whatever the fact that as just show all pointed out that spam next might be used or recycled the same email address dedicated to that entity that's associated with each web page still infringes they are they can use one were more than one because it is dedicated to the entity it's the entity not the web page that that is the subject of the limitation of the path it's the entity to focus on the entity and we've explained that your honor and pages eight through twelve the reply i don't think that that's hitting after the bell at all that simply explaining in response to arguments that are