employment tax credit to self employment tax has not been credited against the employment tax of western management or vice versa   it's partially inaccurate your honor for this reason the ninety five credit of the self employment tax was of course for a full year the government's ad that claim that self employment tax credit against your personal income tax was for the first quarter only the first quarter of one thousand nine hundred five is here involved the government says one hundred percent goes against the first quarter my argument here is even if the court adopts that in the personal case we had tax court memo nineteenth two thousand and one sixty the government pro rated that one for each it not correct that there was no evidence that you didn't get a credit against the income that when we argued it here the last time yes your honor and now there was a credit made against the personal income tax for the self employment tax that is i mean anything that's not what the mandate required to be a credit against the employment tax against that right right and then i'm arguing additionally that the hundred percent penalty the i paid personally should also be a credit because sixty five twenty one opened the door and today i stand  if the court will allow me i'm going to send the twenty eight j on the weekend with that citation that case was a closely held company and it held that the credits were applied to the individuals by directed payment and it's an entire folk art opinion probably the most comprehensive case ever written on these presents back and forth ye one it's the title one that involves income tax in title two and title twenty four involves employment tax it also held that regardless of the statutes the government via longstanding policy tax credit that i didn't agree to again that's what the the money is paid for is to get a pension and you and it's an elective idea as if you have to qualify so that's  has some teeth to it for the reason that this didn't allow these issues of to come up as to how the government credited against the income tax whether it should be one half or one fourth each quarter again social security stuff employment taxes paid for a full year i don't think that should be given at any quarter for the reason that it's determined at the end of the year hypothetically a cut of lost money in the last  should probably be sent back to determine what credit or what depending on what the court's issue is here i do not want to retreat from the fact the statute only allows for self employment that maybe the court doesn't agree with me they can only take self employment employment taxes whether or not there was an income tax credit to me personally doesn't defeat the sixty five twenty one creditor i came to this case only recently but i am clearly billed under a lot of the case principle by the prior decisions and seems that you're asking me against sir individual liability resulting from the alter ego determination but now it seems that you're appealing saying you seeing a credit should have been applied against western corporate li and whether even if i thought you were right i don't see how i have the power to give you what you're asking for because the park court explicitly decided that issuance of the reunion was limited soley to deciding whether you personally could get allow a counter claim by the government requiring me to pay western managements taxes that's what the judgment against us individuals is on a counter claim were in effect made us a guarant of western management tax which was a code or claim some health filed after our readers know before but i guess this is my point the prior panel had all of this information and none the less concluded alter egos of western management so i think the court this court has ample authority to say look that didn't exist because of creditors i meant me and therefore individually i don't know the judgment of against happy to take a look at it when he gets a new citation to that i think as it's clear this morning that the only one issue that the case was sent back for was to see if the capacitors had received any credit for the amount that they claimed on their ninety four ninety five tax returns and self employment taxes and i think the evidence that the government submitted showed that consistent with all the other cases that had been before the ni deficiencies in income tax for one thousand nine hundred four thousand nine hundred ninety five so he never paid any self employment tax for those years so when you look at sixty five twenty one and it talks about basically offsetting the self employment tax against that the worker has paid versus what the corporation would be due he hasn't paid anything so there's nothing there for him to reduce he's gotten full marie right she said that we never paid any self employment tax we paid every year self employment tax with our individual returns so of for for ever we paid self employment tax so i think she misspoke i'm not trying to argue with what you said but i think she meant that the western management had paid its employment tax it's not return then after an audit the government with over objection gave a but also has a partial credit against the income tax definitely we paid also the argument is that i was an employee this is ancient history but judge foley who agreed in the direction case said that since i was to be the president of the corporation that made me an employee you never held that a president had to be in the business of being a president in order to have self employment or in order to have wage income that's ancient history and restrung to straighten out the record it was solely because i'm dependent as a solo attorney obviously on the income i earn in order to the company to complain which is it to me of an independent contractor i apologize it's kind of ancient history that's not before this court but i do want to make the point western management always paid income tax on the income that it paid and earned and then the government paid so the fact of saying it was fate has been paid two or three times i think that the government has eighty thousand dollars more of my money than it ever collected it's been over collected that much