five star part with the meaning up there they reopen or what happens during the reopen her time and that's really the fact pattern isn't absolutely right i absolutely agree the question here is what does the meaning of and it's the most contorted view of negotiation i've ever seen he used those magic words yes and that's probably a lucky thing because quite frankly most of his opinion had to do with impasse which is not refer to an agreement at all and i give that you argue later that it should have been submitted arbitration if they agreed that they would submit the file whether there was a violation correct i think the grievance was everyone agreed to grievance was or were trouble but the question is one there is no provision in the ca that was violated remember the words the terms of the collective bargaining agreement before this court only specified wage rates until july thirty one two thousand collective bargaining agreement which is different than a broad arbitration clause generally and why is that because the supreme court has laid down a specific standard and it involves situations like this where the arbitrator dispenses his that's that we were to view what the word beings and the word negotiation is it is a term of art that has been as a need and he said this is the most toward definition of negotiations i have ever heard the negotiation process a give and take it's a fascinating process ended when he found out they never allowed the employer never allowed the negotiations process to really look forward were to pick up steam to see where they could reach some type of common ground so he found there was no negotiation  to the arbitrator was written down and was taken to the arbitrator and both parties attended that's exactly what happened in the citgo case and virtually every arbitration there is a question presented that doesn't mean that the arbitrator resolved that defense and that's exactly what your honor brings up an excellent point if there had been or ruling that it was our retrieval we would have then immediately appeal that there was no such ruling until one is before your honor's and it's important judge martine absolutely correct if you look at what the arbitrator did here he injected his own fairness rationality goes off on this long discussion your arse about the no strike clause that has no absolutely no application to this case the union also obtained a no walkout provision in the very same article twelve so there was no unfairness and if you're owners look at this award this is exactly what the third circuit has been teaching the district courts in cases like the two pennsylvania power cases and the cigar case that when you have this situation is here and it does not present their commercial arbitration situation you don't have that in commercial interest that's why i'm saying now before we can see the problem here and the fact that it gives the in no ability to leverage on its side heightens the interest of an arbitrator again the negotiation process and the fact that it should proceed with give and take so it can get to a result of the wages as compared to having you implemented unilaterally every just wage which then they cannot strike they cannot strike of your own or is touching upon the fairness rationale that your trade a perceived but why doesn't doesn't it even more so then come within the concept of i am concerned about the negotiation process because i think your honor just what is precisely to the federal labor a lot of determination at the heart of this case and why the district court's opinion must be healthier if you have a decision such as this that honest face showed the unfairness that was perceived by the arbitrator that could have been negotiated by the union at the negotiating table and he will allow that decision to be and for the worse simply because the could the question presented always refers to the collective already agreement so urged the union to return to the bargaining table they refused to negotiate any further and that next to definition and then they wanted information from that one discovery from you that you are refusing to give we gave them all the financial and the contract w