sign up in the lobby you'll have about two and a half minutes to testify to the limited items on the agenda please state your name and organization in which you represent before we began i'll go ahead and check in long and involved process and both of the citizens and county representatives i think everybody i want to just state that i'm in favor of a r seven with a couple of small but very important and impactful changes even though the b section wasn't part of this bill under permitted uses in section one thousand and thirty a zero five zero of the code i happened to notice a change that i'm hopeful was accidental that needs to be returned to its original wording if you would turn to the very bottom of page five under the new numbers eleven a the county code originally stated that you could have a b and b on ag land if you produced a thirty five thousand dollars of gross sales of agricultural products or at the top of page six that you complied with eleven b or eleven c for some reason unknown those two oars are bracketed which completely changes the meaning of the code by stating that you have to make thirty five thousand dollars in ag sales and meet all of the other criteria this change was not in alignment with the intent of this bill change and i request that you strike that change and restore the original reading the us making it that it currently reads in the proposed bill quote all food must be prepared and served on the premises unquote this would mean that in order to meet health department standards every farm serving banana bread would have to have a commission commercial kitchen onsite which is both cost prohibitive and unreasonable i suggest that this be changed to something like all foods must be prepared in accordance with the department of health and thus we would all be able to rent or go use commercial  commercial kitchens off site to prepare our food so that we could serve it on the premises thank you so much for supporting agricultural mowing and paying attention to these very important changes but you need to follow up questions only thing that's my concern was the same thing was the kitchen because i do added value products and i talk to the board of health and they would like to be informed with this kind of stuff so you know that because of having to have a kitchen on farm would be really hard on people they have to get a commercial kitchen instead of doing it on their property and to go and get a permit and build a kitchen you grease traps it costs you like  good afternoon council members my name is bill greenleaf and partner greenleaf family farms i'm happy to see family farms because our youngest son is moving back to maui to become a farmer also  i support our seven and i also represent away farmers union here the maui chapters and we support the a r seven with the two concerns that have been mentioned i'd like to really thank the  council agriculture became industrialized in the fifty's and as it happened we lost a lot of our infrastructure and now as we start to see even medium sized farms twenty five acres and more starting to redevelop here this this legislation is going to be paving the road to make people more successful i believe it will lead to jobs and i believe that will lead to a more successful agricultural sector from our so thank you very much i strongly support this stands and farmers markets in the agricultural district the committee is in receipt of the following number one county communication thirteen dash eighty five from council member ellie cochrane transmitting a proposed resolution to refer to the planning commission is a propose bill really two roadside stands and farmers markets in the agricultural district number two correspondents dated december eleventh two thousand and fourteen from the planning director transmitting the recommendations from the planning commissions and the proposed bill referred to the planning commissions by resolution fourteen dash forty entitled referring to the ny planning commission as a proposed bill to amend section one thousand point zero four point zero four zero and chapter nineteen  three zero a county code pertaining to commercial agriculture structures in the ira cultural district adopted on april fourth two thousand and fourteen number three correspondence dated june twenty second two thousand and fifteen from the department of cooperation council transmitting a revised proposed bill entitled the bill for an ordinance amending title nineteen county code to allow commercial agricultural structures and agricultural district the purpose of the revised proposed bill is  allow as successor uses and special uses within the county agricultural district commercial agricultural structures for the selling and aggregate the selling of agricultural products including value added agricultural products subject to the appropriate restrictions and standards the committee may consider whether to recommend passage of the revised proposed bills on first reading with or without further revisions the committee may also consider the filing of county communications thirteen dash eighty five and other related actions members this committee has worked very hard on this this this this ordinance or this proposed bill this is actually the seventh committee meeting  this in this committee and it started two years ago more than two years ago and has gone through vetting of the ag working group for six months and in addition to that went to the planning commissions for additional input and there after was worked on with my office as well as the planning department she finally get to the revisions that we have today as well as going through  corporation counsel and puts and signing office as to form and legality yesterday i received further comments from the planning department which i have incorporated into the markup version of the proposed bill approved by corporation counsel counsel which the staff has handed out to you i'm not sure if they have they done so ok can you do that at this point  get you out i'm already ok so you'll see that there's a marked up version as well as a clean version incorporating the markups so at this time i would like to call on the planning department to give comments on the additional markups we will i know it's very difficult enters of figuring out what has been changed thus far so why don't we go through ok you'll that do you have that yes ok so if we turn to page two you can see that the first suggestion or amendment would be the definition of agricultural products staff and the planning department has inserted  after i read this and its agricultural products stands means a building structure or place that is partially enclosed by walls at least twenty five percent open to the outside when in operation so they're in there just adding the words when operation and can you can the department explain the intent behind that so that they can close up when they're not in operation and secure whatever items they might have a very simple explanation so you can see the change that was incorporated in the clean version that has been handed out to you and that's been already changed so going on to the other amendments or other suggested changes would be on page two same page mr checks yes are we assuming that we're going to approve this or are you asking whether or not we're going to approve each change or do you want to wait till the end and ok ok we can we can we can just curious get a without objections would you without objections you approve of the the the changes of being when in operation or object seen no objections carried so so amended so the number looking on page two and we're going to look at the definition of farmer's market means either now you look at the second paragraph or you can see that there  adding retail in front of sale so the sentence would read a building or structure managed by a single producer who leases space or stalls for the display and direct  explain that that's just a clarification that it's intended that these are retail transactions rather than wholesale transaction said we felt it clarified the intent that these are in the district there's already as an accessory use wholesale and distribution as a different type of accessory agricultural use but because of for example the size limitations from these structures it it's trying to to narrow down what they're intended for ok and i don't know if this happens but i can see where you know somebody might have  to be behind the farmer's market stall or store would that be allowed in like i said i don't know if that happens but i can see that something like that could ha this makes more of a distinction for us in terms of enforcement verses and again what's allowed in the ag district about manufacturing and wholesale and distribution which are allowed ok don't it to us it it just helped to further define what the intent of these structures are is for you know one to one transaction on the premises rather than wholesaling that's all i guess the the intent and the way i look at it is that this ordinance was initially intended for that one on one sale sure and if they want to do the whole sale which is already allowed but i just want to see the flip side to make sure that there's it's still safe to do you know something like that ok ok so our members without any objections we were so i'm looking up the definitions above where you have agricultural products stand and then you have agriculture retail structure and so that's is breaking it down to scene it's only retail so i'm just seems so there's a retail structure what that means in and  retail sales not wholesale sales i mean a farmer's market as you would generally picture it isn't a large facility where you're doing wholesale transactions individual egg producers can do wholesaling on their property but at a farmer's market where there's one property owner who leases out stalls or or a tables or spaces in a tent for people that's not intended to be a wholesaling operation that's intended to be a retail operation so that's why we were wanting to put the clear vacation for farmers markets for those to just be those small one on one transactions their same vendors at a farmer's market can do wholesaling back at their property where they grow or produce their products the farmer's market is intended to be a smaller one on one type transaction and with the logo items even more so with that you know that that's intended to just supplement the agricultural products that are being sold that's not intended and looks like when they're using the that type of language retail and so i mean i don't really see the distinction but it's something that if the department  requesting to have been there mr callan thank you and this is more for legislative intent if somebody needs to go to the minutes i think it should be allowed to do  wholesale if if because you have one person running the farm and one urson doing the selling and their customer comes up so i understand what the department wants and and generally at a farmer's market that's what you want i just want to you know i don't think we need to change the language but if we can throw legislative intent in there with the department have any objections if we don't use that language retail and then you would know in the in the department what that means well if the council wants farmers markets to allow wholesale then and food items and the department is requesting an amendment to to delete the word not and add neither and then  delete their word or and add the word no more so it would read as follows the other food item item means a food item that is neither an agricultural product grown raised or caught in the county nor a value added product that was produced using our culture products grown rays are caught in a way department it's just moving forward to the next composer and then it would be on page six of the markup and this is in regards to one of the test s i believe miss hogan had mentioned that there was an unintended deletion of an oar so we are going to be putting the or back at the top of the page where we see that without any objections yes mr couch mr chair it looks like you also in moving forward to page seven of the mark up version we have on the bottom of the page there on commercial agriculture structures nineteen point three zero eight point zero seven a section a and incorporating that last sentence into the first sentence so it will read as follows starting with the top of the title a requirements commercial agriculture structures are subject to the following requirements and restrictions number one commercial agricultural structures and they sell agricultural products or value added products that are not grown raised caught or produce on on the lot that commercial agriculture structures are located on so long as an active agriculture operation is present on the lot where that commercial agriculture structure is located subsection b didn't add any clarity and made it a little bit more confusing so just to compress all of that into one paragraph made it more readable and more enforceable ok so go ahead and move on in terms of the adding the language the commercial agricultural structures to that section one thousand point three zero point zero seven t and also deleting the subject subsection and then incorporating the last sentence with the first sentence so is there any objections to that no  thank you that actually kind of carries on mr chair she mentioned that they got rid of part b and it looks like they're adding number three yes so we're also on the next clarity to the section it basically said that egg products have to be grown on the lot where egg products are ground and that we didn't think we needed does everybody understand that that you can have a commercial our cost structure on the land on the agricultural property and operated as long as property is in production with agriculture so that's what that first portion means ok moving forward to the next amendment and it books is  number two on page eight and it appears that the department is requesting the deletion of proof of implemented  so it's just reworking that whole sentence so it would be it would read as follows number two a farm plan implementation implementation shall be required before the commercial our cultural structure commences operation is that correct department yes that's absolutely correct i'm the concern was that the way it was worded that proof of an implemented farm plan we don't receive proof of an implemented farm plan we go out and look for ourselves to see that the farm plan has been implemented so we just wanted to phrase that procedurally how we how we actually do it so if an operation already has a farm plan that's implemented we just go and check existing approved farm plans that are implemented they won't have to do a new one maybe they need to tweak it if they've made changes to it but it's not asking for to form plans or anything like that just a single farmer and  clean version is verified and the other one is back to the one we had before you have a number three here within a retail structure other feet items food items and logo item sh occupying more then no more than forty nine percent of the total floor area but it never i don't see were made it into the all but that's that's actually if you mr couch if you follow the line here i guess it was drawn version doesn't have all the markups right i want to show you what has changed since the last revision so and so when will this be the last reviews yes yes because it's gone through the corporation council and  process and make sure everything's clean so i think that it's an acceptable way to do it i mean obviously they want to type out red line but we understand that you know things work in committee sometimes there's changes that happen last minute and so they're going to need to be they're going to need to go through our process for approval before we can get a revised approved bill so so for now we're ok i think we've got your counsel services staff to help with this as well approved already it's these sort of red line changes that we did are new to us that our office hasn't seen yet and so i haven't gone over all of these yet but it does not seem to be a huge amount such that it would be not possible to pass this out today and i think that's the committees will if we do see a problem that could perhaps be fixed at first reading we could look at that or you know hopefully non substantive changes would be all that would be required prior to our   there's a farm plan implementation requirement or a verification of the property is that the bill is really intended for those who are really doing agriculture not those who are have agricultural lands and then putting on these structures just to sell and make money that it's really intended for those persons that are really actively engaged in agriculture so therefore the  plan requirement and those who are already doing i because you're already have a farm plan so moving forward without any objections for the amendments in section two would be all farmers markets show operate only during daylight hours and the department is requesting a dilution of the wording and the shall not operate on parcels less than five acres so department thank you chair the existing language in the ag district is for farmers markets that farmer's market shall not operate on parcels of less than ten acres so the original proposal was to reduce that down to five acres but then when we were looking at farmers markets plus these other types of commercial ag structures we felt that there wasn't really a reason for farmers markets to be restricted to only larger personals when the retail ag structures in the ag food establishments could be conducted on parcels of any size so if there was to be a maximum size or scuse me a minimum size then that should apply to all of the structures but if the purpose is to allow these different bag operators all this flexibility in these different options then we didn't feel that and then this bill reduced it to five acres and now the department is saying you know what let the smallest so big krige be allowed to have farmer's market it's so that's what the deletion is on the five acres without any objections can we actually eat that language ok thank you and as joe joe keeps pointing out they have to have active agricultural operation going on so that's still required even if it's a within an agricultural retail structure other food items and logo items shot occupy no more than forty nine percent of the total floor area now this is just so we're deleting that language and moving that way in which to section d and numbering yet three and that's pacifically for structure or clarity i believe department yes because on page nine the items listed on page nine apply to all commercial ag structures and because that one was specific only to ag retail structures we thought it was more appropriate for it to be just under the ag retail structure standards so without any objections members would you we will move that of the total floor area what that means is the the other foods or the logo items when it's being displayed or sold can only can only be forty nine percent of the total floor area so the forty nine percent is something that can be changed by this committee but could be twenty five percent thirty percent is just something that is there to be vetted through so if the department has any comments on forty nine percent yes thank you we do feel that forty nine percent might be a little on the high side even though that means that it's a minority of the floor area that's not being used for other agricultural products forty nine percent still seems pretty pretty generous to me we batted around thirty three percent and we batted around twenty five percent and we talked with the chair about it a little bit today and just thought well this is this is really a big policy call for the council to make as to how much area should be used for local items and other things like that to mr coffey famous chair i'm willing to go to twenty five percent because but let me ask you how this would be interpreted if you have a thousand  five hundred square feet of floor space or three hundred words in there i forget what the minimum with five hundred square feet are for space and so we say twenty five percent which is going to be one hundred twenty five square feet of floor space but then they can have shells and go up  space for other items and logo items is there any any objections to that agricultural business comes from value added products and i'm open seven days a week eight hours a day and i sell plants in my nursery all day long but the thing that allows me to hire employees and pay taxes and insurance are the value added products so i just encourage you to consider this carefully research or just a massive richard yes mitchell you do you have a percentage you would like to suggest i like the forty nine percent i do i don't i don't have a problem with the forty nine percent you know i think twenty five percent is is low i mean my you know selection of t shirts alone could take up a big section of you know i mean just things like that take up space you know so i'm not you know i'm all for having ag in the ag space but i think that you've got to consider how we pay for our ability to have these retail structures would you would you consider twenty five and forty  what if we were forty percent i would be happy with anything above twenty five you know i'm looking for happy medium right right yeah i'm not trying but i'm listening to it is and i'm saying  happy medium thirty five forty you of that nature would you be comfortable with i mean let me just paint a picture because not all agricultural retail spaces are fruits and vegetables which tourists can buy sometimes the actual plants and i have a plant nursery and all of my visitors who come cannot buy any of my plants and not all of them the locals do the locals do but the tourists cannot because they can't take them with them and so the only way and i don't want to charge them an entrance fee because i'm providing a service and i'm trying to have the spirit of aloha consequently the only way that i can finance having employees in there and all the other amazing expenses that come along with this is to sell value added products and so if i had to reduce that to you know this this amazingly small space it would be amazingly hard to stay fine ended trying to digest it just to clarify the percentage that we're because i just try to find a medium dead not leaving them holding what i call a real stick you know model we want to make this as workable as possible and again was that your movie in a couple two three years we're going to sit down and review it i mean  i hope that's part of this whole thing is that this whole plan is to take a review ever after three years or something like i've always suggested i will be making that i mean when proposal leader i like to see this reviewed because i don't i don't like getting going and staying leaving something go and then we find there's a problem five years later and he's shocked as you so model to make those changes but forty percent would be my suggestion and i'll wait to see what the members have to see me as the department is forty percent again this is a policy call for the council to make we wanted to raise the question that we felt that forty nine percent while still a minority still seemed high but it's purely a policy call and as if there's a percentage that's great that's something we can enforce it's clear the operators know that it's a clear number so that's a policy call we defer to the to the council on that so later on that we're clearly talking about other food yeah i think mr victory no for bringing up that figure i thought mr couch is number was too low and so i'm i'm happy i am ok at forty nine also but i guess i understand we don't want the ball it's not ball but it's becoming over half and in you know produce whatever agricultural products but i understand i heard ms hogan and the others so i'm supportive of the forty forty percent scott yes thank you very much as a non voting man member i'd like to weigh in because i will vote eventually initially of course like you are talking you know i was thinking about egg and how that needs to be the majority but you know this is reality and reality is that small business is having a hell of a time and when i listen to them they are they are dealing with it they're dealing with expenses they're dealing with marketing to dealing with everything and other grueling is not it ok it sounds good so without objections we will amend it to forty percent thank you members moving on to the next section here  it would be under the agricultural food establishment on page eight of the markup of the department is requesting to alleviate to the wording and served on the premises as well as to leaving the planning to the planning director shall have the disk oppression to allow an exemption to this sub section and adding the words deleting those that those that language and adding the words starting with the last word of per prepared in accordance with the state department of health rules and regulations to read as follows the to all food must be prepared in accordance with the state department of health rules and regulations a department the original language of all food must be prepared and served on the premises we could imagine situations where some food might be prepared offsite or some things might just be prepped offsite and then brought and finished and served on the premises suggests dining on the premise is which it is the next amendment  or it's not just something that's packaged to be taken away and we felt that those things were were unnecessarily restrictive as long as food is prepared in accordance with state department of health requirements we can be a bit prepared offsite or on site and it doesn't have to be served on site it can be packaged and sold but not not serve served on site suggests consumption on site and we didn't know that that i can envision i think there might be instances i have to bring in tons of caterers and and whatnot and have this big huge party but i'm not sure if that's ok or not or how you want to if this opens that door for that department looking back at the definition of egg food establishment  prepares and serves food at retail using ag products grown raised or caught in the county and value added products that were produced using ag products grown in hawaii so if it's a big catered event that's all maui in hawaii and products ok that's a good thing for hawaii culture it's very true also the restriction on on egg food establishments they're limited to a thousand square feet in total floor area and that includes seating and dining area under the definition of total floor area so it would be it could only be a thousand square feet anything more than a thousand square feet and yeah especially use permit sure so i don't i'm fine with that and i think i brought this up before in the last meeting what about things that she when you do the cooking for instance cinnamon i don't think we go cinnamon here on the in the state or things that the g use some of the spices or whatever can that be i mean it wouldn't be banned by this would it but i think that that would fold into a value added product ok so you want it now a coffee with cinnamon th correct that would be fine i just want to make sure that that's allowable you know we're not going to have our inspectors going out there doing understandable sampling of where things came from ok thank you  you know you get the just so ok then then then the department is also requesting the deletion of number three which is ether three the agricultural food establishment must have a dining area that is used primarily for the consumption of food and activities that are incidental to the consumption of food department thank you chair yes again we felt that takeout would the verification so this section deals with the registration of these agricultural structures and so when they register with the department there are certain owner lessee or licensee of the lot on which the proposed commercial agriculture structure is located if the producer is the last cd or licensee the authorization of the owner also be provided a lessee or licensee must have a lease with a minimum duration of they says five years but i'm requesting one year for the portion of the lot that the structure is on or will be located on and the reason i'm asking for this amendment members is that in speaking with a lot of the agricultural primers that are leasing there are lads a lot of them are saying that they sometimes they're just not being able to get a five year lease and a lot of times it's just a one year lease so i am requesting it to be converted to a one year lease instead of a five year lease there's no objection mr victory no and i understand what you're saying and i like the idea but i don't want to put it in this way i'd like to see got a twenty year they got you know he had twenty you make it one year in my mind and you correct me for all michelle it kind of limits to one year and now i'd rather have it where to whatever the  of vailable because there are some that goal month to month or even get one year i know some and now that they were and from the alexander boy it's month to month we still xander will tell you that it's month to month so how do verify i mean a minimum time that's a policy issue for the i mean for the council i mean if you do not want to want to require a long term commitment it's more than a month to month lease but this shows a duration of at least one year  in a lease that's up to the council which you want to see i mean if you want to see that before allowing this type of use then that's that's up to the council originally was five years one years being proposed and so i think that is at the discretion of the of the body and  group i think mr walters are was saying that this was there to prevent carpetbaggers coming in and renting the land just for a short period of time and then making their money and taking so the five year lease thing came up and that's where it came and then as time progressed i hear more hey i only have a one year lease and so now we're at this stage where you're saying well why don't we just say a lease  and so i would ask the members do they have any objections if we just delete the one year or the five year lease language and just put a lessee or licensee must have a that that will go ahead and be amended ok thank you moving forward on page nine we we have deleted a number the letter i and we have moved that to section d three as i mentioned earlier so that language is still there is this is just a clarification in moving moving that section to in a different section so is there no objections to that thank you thank you members so moving on to the parking requirements that are standard in the county and all that we are doing on page ten is adding commercial agricultural structures within the parking lot and it says and we're adding some language to entirety as amended one ok so commercial agriculture structures as defined in section one thousand point three zero point zero seven two of this title one parking space for every two hundred square feet  floor area of building or for farmer's market one parking space for every two hundred square feet of the retail floor space provided that the minimum should be two parking spaces for provided that sort of further provided for agricultural food establishments that's another structure the parking requirements  provisions department thank you chair we asked for the clarification because there might be instances where a farmer's market isn't actually in a building it might be under a tenner it might just be tables and so we wanted to clarify that the same ratio would apply to farmers markets just specifying that it's the retail area of the farmer's market if it's you know if it's not in a building section number four and incorporating that language in the letter b so it shall read as follows  b letter b the planning director or in the case of the island of lanai and the line i planning commission may waive order for up to fifty percent of the required parking for commercial agricultural structures as defined in section one thousand point three zero point zero seven two of this title and that's just grammar looks like it's a correct department yes chair thank you the previous for ag products stand and we felt that it should just be consistent with the same percentage for all of the commercial egg structures so rather than the thirty percent being under the  revisions from the department that was submitted yesterday we can go through the clean version which has all of the p incorporated in at this point does any of the members have questions about the clean version that has all the amendments incorporated berzerk in there in the parking ordinance in chapter nineteen point three six eight and on page fourteen of the bill we're working on today it already has that provision for the lanai planning commission so that's existing in the law right now that the planning director for fall and i would have to be the planning commission will waive the deferral for a couple of types of uses only and so we're proposing to add the commercial leg structures as another type of use it's eligible for that waiver and we were just following along with that same  was just curious why it's hitting the east specifically and how that came about and i just wondered if it was that to do with or you know another remote area of this county type thing so  that the parking ordinances we haven't really changed except for added to our culture shock church with and the parking ordinance which is required anyway bill i do realize that in their commission reports that they mentioned that they were worried about size and we did put in to address the size restriction which would be three hundred square feet for agricultural road and a one thousand square feet is the limit for all the other structures if anything more than one thousand square feet then they need  a special use permit and aside from that these structures are required exclude excuse me excluding the roadside stands which are three hundred square feet and last the other ones the  building these agricultural structures are really legitimate farmers and they're actually producing produce on their land so i understand and i've addressed those issues in here and i'm not sure if they still feel the same but if their their requests their wishes you know because they have a real different take on everything and they live in it and i mean they don't live different as they just live in a different environment that they want things a certain way that doesn't would have to look at that i mean this is the first i've heard of something like this i'm not really prepared to make a recommendation without looking at the whole bill so i suppose it's possible if it's been done in the past not necessarily  recommended best practices with respect to legislation but has it has been done before so i suppose it's possible but i don't have a suggested language off the cuff right now donor to do that  because again unregulated is not what i want to i want to allow so but again i want to give them the flexibility so that would be my only request is that these communities are they still choose to opt out that they come back to us like they have in other of the commissions i don't have enough from the constituents to basically ban them from a blanket not being able to avail of all of these different type of  four different structures that will be allowed on ag lands and you know granted that you're only allowed two of them on one hundred k it's still this production of being able to be in active and active agriculture and having a diverse income you know i i think that's that's part of it and when they do come if we get enough support we can always come in and amend it to try to exclude them at have have a lot of roadside stands already operating on the highway and i think there should be some regulations some regulation at the same time to eliminate them but also some people in a position where they're not able to avail and so this because it they don't want to be doing something outside the limits of the law so i think you know i understand his his desire but i think it really does require a little more discussion i think would be good for him to take this back to his community and see if there's something they can they can live with because i think we do have a responsibility to provide structure for the department if we're going to expect them to take on the responsibilities of enforcement right thank you and you know the requirement in this ordinance is that even if you're three hundred square foot roadside stand you still got  register and it's just about being able to find out you know how many do we have out there and hina so everybody doesn't like regulations and things like that but i think serve a purpose when you're dealing with health issues and traffic issues and so forth and so members i'd like to see if i can pass this out today and work on it and i think the next time it'll get will eventually go to the fore councils and i think in a month but at that point we would have enough time to get some input from mr carroll's district but at this time i'd like to entertain a motion to recommend revisions made by the committee and finally in the county communications thirteen dash eighty five in any non substantive changes share so most moved by i cochran saying known by mr victory no any further discussion no i really do respect mr couch and and what he does for in the planning the committee but it is difficult work very much is so and i appreciate your work thank you very much staff and the ag working group thank you for the vetting and