contract simply lays out all the legal details as to how the contract will be handled and settled in terms of the confirmation we would do to execute  leave like you said it's typically a little bit cheaper there you go you run the risk but there's a lot of congestion between the two locations and you end pay a fixed price for that what you're speaking of is more of a power option and with that you would pay the premium upfront for the ability to say in this case no i don't want to buy that five cent power it's at his her way to quantify what the insurance value of the head well if it's not quite insurance because this is a product you're absolutely going to use every day every hour right now you're using the power that you've hedged in at some point in the past for delivery  factor and i can go buy gas for four dollars therefore i locked in a two dollar  ability to potentially sell it next week next month next year forty five fifty sixty dollars and the behind you see they might be doing gas options and maybe doing a whole lot of different yeah it's typically you can buy power in around the clock which means you get the same quantity of megawatts every hour of every day if you buy five megawatts around the clock you're going to get five megawatts deliver more during the peak hours per day less on weekends and even less overnight even within that she your loaded typically eight am or nine am is less than it is at noon time and it's probably less than it is tool clock depending on the time of the year it might dip down between three and four o'clock people start coming home at five o'clock six o'clock lights come on the air conditioning comes on your load goes back up in the winter all the lights in town come it during the the shoulder hours whether it's eighty three or eighty seven i think that's more of an academic exercise because you don't know what your loads going to be in our fourteen on june twenty a what they call load following coming from x where they specifically go out and instead of saying i want this many megawatts in this block or in this month and more or less each month they'll pay the supplier to twenty five percent of the total would pass on that information to the supplier and they would provide that for megawatt it's a financial transaction in reality but you would get twenty five percent of exactly twenty five percent of the power delivered and at that again is an inch there's an insurance premium built into that because rather than saying hey we want to buy five megawatts if you say i want twenty five percent you know the supplier is taking ten to fifteen percent more people so you're guaranteeing then that your pain ten fifteen percent insurance premium for something that may not you may not use so or even longer that two to pursue a strategy of eighty five percent hedging might entail additional payments of about ten to fifteen percent for power as opposed to pure spot market purchases but you avoid the risk of price spikes no no if we were to engage in use load following contracts that provided precisely a percentage of your load every hour you would pay you would expect to pay ten to fifteen percent more than the contract price for just buying h the shape of blocks that matched your forecast low mem buying all of this in the future there's comparing spot market prices with forward contracting prices is really comparing apples and oranges because one is is like saying i'd like to buy ten shares of i b m today at this price or i'll wait till twenty twenty one in buy ten shares of i b m you don't know what the price you could pay you could buy an option that says i'll buy up today you you then at some point in the future can say yes this was a good trade or not a good job but that's different than say but the risk is come twenty twenty one you have to be willing to bear that pain because in this case it's in the purchase of stock you could elect not to buy it in the case of purchase new electricity there's no choice to not buy it understood i mean but say going to a totally unhedged portfolio maybe such as in our midst changing operations that is not reasonable to consider it but presumably if you pursued that as an alternative you would only do it because there was an expectation that paint spot price would give you some savings but of course you have to have some reserves against adverse price movements correct you'd need significant reserves because as we saw a couple of winters ago power that you had locked in for january february in the eighty dollars per megawatt hour range turned out to cost to two and a half times that and  corrects to that but the market will not quickly correct gas pipeline shortages or constraints that drive the price of gas up to ten twelve fifteen dollars typically oh i'm sorry something about that the you can buy delivered gas on an annual average probably five dollars and fifty cents a deck of them which correlates to roughly thirty five forty dollars megawatt hour depending on the particulars of each power plant some are more efficient some are less but if you buy just gas for january you're probably going to pay seven or eight dollars and that's today if you want to lock in gas to be delivered for january or february of this year in pretty much the same for the next two or three years if you wait till january fourteenth when it's twenty two below zero for the third day in a row gas might cost eighty dollars to get it delivered here and the power plant that could be on the margin is paying eighty dollars and turning around sitting for me to run i need to get six hundred dollars a megawatt hour if you've got it your open position would potentially be subjected to that kind of  own generation company like exelon they own generation the next their energy they own seabrooke they own generation and there are companies morgan stanley for instance i don't believe they own the celica bank they call on the power from a power plant but they they don't physically own structures and crews operating power plants like that so it could be either your ok and energy new england your company works for buyer and seller or trader we don't profit in any way shape or form from that type of activity we don't engage in it we're simply a municipal we formed a consulting company when the market deregulated in ninety eight  we will bring it up to follow up on that or have we worked with suppliers and producers and generators and developers and when we see an opportunity or they bring an opportunity having the municipal in massachusetts sort of aggregated together it is a nice thing because developers look for good credit when going to parties in there's nothing better than the municipal and creative suppliers look for opportunities to sell power to larger groups and some rather than smaller groups but we've added all of those things internally against the market and share that information readily with all the the portfolio mix of the power a little bit so when you said before that we take power from the grid i take it that means that in some sense the electricity that you're buying reflects the percentage composition of the generation available to new england so of the x percent gas and y percent solar and so forth whatever you're buying in a sense replicates that that's a fact  the extent that you have a standard or just value and that's typically what most suppliers provide however you have contracts with the spruce mountain w project with saddleback ridge wind project with the miller hydro run of river hydro project up in maine each of those projects belmont is specifically getting new gen solar project there's a couple of solar farms open west central mass in which you guys have a small stake so you win those facilities produce electricity you get credit for that and you get what's called a renewable energy certificate that goes along with that and that's how you can prove that your power is produced or a portion of your power is produced from a specific so i've always well i have not yet fully absorbed how to think about our i have think about rex but suppose there was a given amount of generation capacity that was let's say gas powered and then there was another a fixed amount of capacity that was renewable of some kind if the gas powered generation and the renewable generation is fully subscribed region wide then if one municipality increases the chair of renewable that would be at the expense of another municipality that would have to take less is that right if if the capacity is fixed if the capacity were fixed that's true but there are always new projects being developed particularly in the renewable space it's a it's an ever growing supply so if belmont for example wanted to increase its share of renewable energy in a way that could be document that i guess directs or something like that how would you go about it to to also be sure that this increase in renewable supply for belmont was coming from new capacity and not simply redistributing somebody else's rock and forcing them back to gas that's a good question and that's precisely be part of the thought process behind the spruce mountain project and the saddleback ridge project in which belmont participates  the developer approached energy new england and said we know you have relationships with a number of municipal zz we like their credit we like the fact that banks like their credit and if you think  disney arrangement where we can develop a project and sell the energy for the capacity in the ranks to your plan we negotiated a tentative contract structure showed to all the municipal zz that we deal with and even some that are local customers that we have longstanding consulting agreements with and we came up with a nuff interest to get into negotiate deep negotiation with the supplier and hammer out a contract that said ok for your twenty three m project each of these municipal zz decided to participate commit to a long term fifteen or twenty year agreement to power the purchase the power from that plant you go off and build it you where all the development risk you where all the construction risk you were all the permitting risk when you have that plant producing energy you have a contract that says each of these muties will buy x percent of the output from that plant at a predetermined price that was a those were two power plants or generating facilities that had never existed until five years ago when two years ago so that's absolutely virgin power if you will but as that mean in the future  mud not just dominant wanted to increase its share of renewable power but i would think of it as a social increase in renewable power so the region as a whole is actually generating more renewable and not just reallocating from utility to another this i mean that belmont would have to get involved in in projects would have to repeat of the get involved in projects of that sort in the future if you wanted to ensure that the pie was ever growing from every perspective interest yes otherwise if wellesley says oh we don't care to participate anymore in the saddleback bridge project energy knowing when can you help us find somebody who will take our share of that contract and show we could go out and find a another participant to take on their obligation but no more wind would be created no more wind power would be generated in wind wind that contract price for each of those project is fixed for the life of your contract for the next fifteen twenty years when you get a win each megawatt is produced you pay the contract price in addition to getting the electrical benefit you get the renewable energy certificate and you also get a small piece of crap capacity credit from that plant what you do with w you monetize or retire that will have an impact on your power supply in aggregate but it doesn't change your contract price with the supplier or the developer  that there's an economic decision and certainly to be considered a few years ago rex mass class one racks which is what the wind farms produce were worth on the order of up to sixty five dollars each so let's say your wind project cost ninety nine dollars for each megawatt of electricity you sent this supplier a check for ninety nine dollars you received your electricity and you receive your rent you could sell that wrecked for up to five dollars therefore your net power cost was on the order of thirty five dollars a megawatt hour your contract price hasn't changed the rock market has changed and today those same wrecks are worth ten to fifteen dollars so even if you sold them now your net power cost from for delivered energy would be on the order of eighty five dollars or even a half cents whereas a few years ago it was on the order of or find a developer willing to work with you folks and hammer out some contractors to do that for you presumably it sounded like the price would be you know the pricing would be the and pricing was very similar to the us but in the market at the time rex were twenty five to thirty dollars so that was a conscious decision by the participating municipal zz where is six or seven years ago the thought was oh rex are sixty dollars therefore power will be three now four cents and yet all things being equal now it's rex or fifteen twenty maybe twenty five dollars for the foreseeable future therefore powers more on the seven and a half eights and maybe i have sand range right that it's cheaper to retire the rx now than it would have been five years ago six years ago you get less there's less of a financial impact your bottom line to doing that yes yes yes and an alternative way to green up your portfolio would simply be a go to go out and buy racks those are certificates that say a power plant has produced a green for more political wind particularly wind power plant has produced a megawatt of electricity the owner of that power plant didn't consume that electricity  and he but he owns the rights to that environmental certificate and he or she is willing to sell that and you can buy those difficulties from them and effectively that gives you the right to say of and with so i do repeat myself but to to really understand what's going on with the rock market the types of transactions you just described are certainly financial transactions but they don't necessarily they don't necessarily result in a net change in the amount of brain power produced is that right does just the purchasing of rex yes yes that's correct that right now some wind farm is producing the window electricity the developer or the owner of the financial owner of the rack the legal owner of the rack is the person who's entitle to say i used that megawatt of electricity and it was from that specific power plant and therefore i can certify with this certificate that it's green but but suppose wellesley was the sole owner of that facility and  image or any change in the amount of green power that's produced the same that's correct now that it would change the marketplace for the racks increasing the price you know it very well drive them up in remember not everybody who produces power consumes it the power purchase agreement is for power at four cents five cents six cents eight cents a kilowatt but all you're buying is the electricity well i mean doesn't the developer retains that solar rack and the developer then does what he feels is best retiring it or selling it for a few hundred bucks you paid him unless you're willing to pay twenty two cents a kilowatt for the contract rate for every mego by every kilowatt that's produced from that plant then the developer will we've discussed with a number of municipalities as an opportunity to do a ten year purchase from the seabrook power that doesn't change the amount of nuclear power that will be produced from that station over those ten years what it does is it provides price surety to the power purchase agreement off takers and municipalities and it provide level of revenue surety to the power plant what that what with that next era has said they will certify that the power through emissions free energy certificate called in effect they will provide those effects to the purchase of the off takers stating that you are buying carbon free so that sort of in connection with the  category of renewable energy there's class one class to waste energy class two non way standard g solar different grades of solar or categories of solar depending on their time frame of development  nuclear does not meet the massachusetts class one at a gori of renewable energy suited however as the rule was originally put forth in order to have those power purchase agreements from a nuclear facility count against your or provide credit for meeting the competitive of the clean energy standard requirements you would have had to have and that contract existing before i believe it was september of twenty fourteen as the news came out about the proposed standard going out in june of this year and say oh i want to buy some nuclear and have that count toward satisfying that standard as it turns out the municipalities were exempted from meeting those standards  even if the muni's are exempt in december suggest that it's a pretty fair bet that over time in one shape or form or another there will be some if not a position put forth by the muni's you know aggregation that you know d p we don't want to be part of that requirement but we volunteer to do this and it may be similar or parallel  but the muni the municipal light plants have some different operating constraints than the investor owned utilities investor owned utilities only by power for their known customer base six to twelve months in advance so they they don't have any contracts with anybody to deliver power in twenty twenty four twenty twenty eight they have no price surety which is say tomorrow hey you guys need to meet this standard by two thousand and twenty it would or twenty eighteen even it would radically affect how you manage your portfolio your supply portfolio in the very short run you might have to  liquidate the existing positions which may or may not be profitable and in the current market you would have to potentially liquidity long term contracts that has a cost to it so i think he's likely to turn out as either the muni's are going to be in together and sort of put forth a here's a framework that we'd like to work toward in the next five ten fifteen twenty thirty years in order to remain exempt from government oversight or detailed government oversight or  toward that same on a voluntary basis that same clean energy standard abs and a lot of people you know feel that that would be an equitable thing with a reasonable amount of risk from an energy supply perspective you're doing pretty well and we've your power supply costs off the top my head for this year are to say up a little bit under five cents a kilowatt electricity only anything beyond that is capacity market transmission costs local distribution costs and the like playin if they had the same exact portfolio as you yes but they don't your load shape is different then wellesley's is different than kong or does different than ingham's so by definition  it's almost like saying a house all of five people should have the same grocery bill is a household of four people because it's one household so if it's not white you can't say perfectly it's apples to apples  they may decide to do a power purchase on july eighteenth for five years where is the money either opted not to participate in something around that time frame or you opted for a three year term or nine years which would in your portfolio so just in that regard there's a car purchase cost here yeah anybody else wants hour basis and you know that's only seven and a half mil difference but when you multiply times six hundred kilowatt hours which is a typical household it's about four dollars and fifty cents difference per month so is there anything that you can add as to what i mean you manage both muni's and i understand there's different it's different situations load shapes is there anything other than that that would contribute to the to the difference we run into a little bit of an organizational problem with the other twenty one muni's who say how come they got eight or ten megawatts in the early fifteen megawatts for for the rest of us i want and so what we do in those situations is typically suggest that we split between all the participants that want to participate in the project we then say everybody gets a relatively equal percent of either the pie in aggregate or your load share and we typically don't advocate for these projects that you do any one project to a huge percentage of your power we do know that there are opportunities now to buy wind at less than eight cents that carries racks but that's from an existing wind that either has been in operation for a number opportunity doesn't net change the environmental generation it will resources so the fact that concord costs are a little bit less than us is that in any way suggest that maybe we have a possibility of a downside over time or is it i would have to look i mean all of the things being things being equal yes you should because forward pricing i'm not saying you'll get to concords level because relatively they should be heading in the same direction if they were to choose to do proportionately the same things you guys want to do grid power right now as i said probably shaped for your load in the five cent per kilowatt range that would drive there your seven point six and number down if you decide to buy racks or do more green and that's in the ten that will drive your price up and maybe call good says we don't want to do that maybe concord is going to go out and buy a record contract for they're willing to lock in the price of rex for ten years and let's just say that's a twenty five dollars so they're willing to pay twenty five dollars today for a rack that you could buy for fifteen dollars they'll pay that same twenty five dollars ten years from now where you guys might be buying sixty two dollars ten years from now so it's those sort of multi year long term decisions that can either thing up in price movement or stabilize it depending on how you want to look you can lock in less than five cents probably on around the clock basis probably in the low force and keep ours probably closer to five cents but that's you can block that in today of percent for ten years so it would give you a great deal of price stability if the current prices let's say five cents just to pick a number i take it that that number would escalate over the contract term from thank you know it's fixed it's a license for the life of the hijackings on how you structure the contract right now if we went out we could say let's say prices forty dollars for the eighteen forty one for nine hundred forty two forty three let's just say it goes up by we want to do a ten year deal we could structure it such that it would be increasing by a dollar per year which is how your miller hydro contract work or we could structure it at forty five dollars or forty four dollars as a level payment as a little payment throughout the term inferi you're paying up a little bit upfront but on the backend compared to a net present value same contract you'd be getting a bargain if you struck you that way in years five to ten without that's current pricing so i guess i don't know how long our current contracts have to run because we were locked in are we hear any fair amount of that information is just right here this shows you your positions and through tw on the first page your morgan stanley contract those big purple ones are but at the top currently in two thousand and seventeen you're getting about twenty percent of your power supply under that contract in twenty eighteen you get about thirteen percent of your projected power supply from that contract and then you have no obligation to next step scuse me to morgan stanley after that spruce mountain wind the little white sliver or gray sliver you're going to have that for another thirteen years i believe shell energy and a similar to the morgan stanley contract those are done in two years and those are two different provide three percent three point one percent of your load and given the accuracy of anybody's load forecast trying to send this to say so i'm looking at the lines that zero and it looks like in two thousand and nineteen morgan stanley goes to zero correct shell energy goes to zero yes but then everything else remains roughly constant out at least two thousand and twenty two that's correct so does that mean that in terms of adjusting our portfolio the sum of morgan stanley plus shell which currently is about twenty three or twenty three and a little bit more but that's how much is in pla morgan stanley's twenty percent this year but in shell is twenty six so you probably forty five percent but of these contracts are we locked into these contracts so we we also are using morgan stanley and shell in two thousand and eighteen e for the year you're about sixty one point seven percent called sixty percent of total expected consumption as a price so a fixed price associated with whether your load is a little higher or a little lower than the projection means your sixty three or five percent or a fifty eight percentage sign i mean we restate this differently so it has sixty one point seven percent for two thousand and eighteen that's unhedged no that's had sixty one sorry hedged yes so and if the goal that if the target was eighty five percent hedged that saying that we should put on roughly time that's correct ok so obviously for twenty eight thousand we'd like to handle that in the next month or two before the start of the calendar year for twenty one thousand we'd like to do a piece of that now again we typically don't recommend that anybody does a fifty percent or forty five percent purchase for their entire power supply need at one time it's sort of  cost average well if yeah it's dollar cost averaging and and in this environment where power prices are in the four cent range we've certainly been more aggressive or a number of movies have been more aggressive taking a longer term locking in that kind of price because the relative downside as i said earlier spot prices may go to twenty dollars during some periods on average it's not going to be there and to buy a forward product you're never going to get it at that point in the twenty's it's always almost always going to be in the thirty's so it for two thousand and eighteen  just to return to the sixty one point seven percent it's again staying with an eighty five percent hedged target it sounds like we would like t twenty three percent of the portfolio give or take if that's correct then those hedges will be put on not all of once but over some period of time know that size ahead we probably do in one shot and then it's over twenty three percent headrest but say done in one transaction then how long would that contract run that that would be a new contract in two thousand and eighteen that's correct and that's a decision we've made with krag and the power purchase that you buy for twenty eighteen would only apply to twenty eighteen but when we're out contracting for twenty eighteen we might also want to buy what equates to ten percent or fifteen percent for twenty thousand and ten percent for twenty twenty and twenty one and twenty two all at one time and we can structure that so the pricing is fixed by a year for one for the quantity purchased or we could blended together and say you have a five year purchase of twenty three percent ten percent eight percent six percent five percent sort of jamul the pricing together all the megawatts together dollar cost average that and say oh instead of the average price for all of those megawatts is forty four dollars as opposed to saying it's forty two dollars forty four dollars forty six dollars forty seven dollars and forty eight dollars  we do we can structure that the way typically most folks like to just say oh i have one price for that power transaction and it's five years with varying volumes by year but there's nothing that would prevent us from saying give us different pricing per year so in some of that depends on the size of the transaction is if we go out to a supplier and we wholesale power supply us or trade or just say well that's of interest to me let me sharpen my pencil as best i can and simply the administrative cost and his and her in the traders and his ways transactional benefit if we aggregate a bunch of years together and maybe we're going to do twenty let's say we do twenty five percent of your portfolio which turns out to be thirty thousand megawatt hours for twenty eighteen and then we say we want to do twenty percent for twenty nine hundred eighteen there's another twenty five thousand megawatt hours and we want to do fifteen percent for twenty twenty and ten percent for the other users now we're presenting each trading shop with an opportunity to problem but on the same token i would be reticent to say let's go out and buy three percent of your power for twenty twenty two it's almost mean you've got three percent for free or you paid one hundred dollars for three now they're going to bring any more pressure to you but yeah i'm conscious a time a little bit here i don't know maybe some more questions but can you just run down quickly what the our portfolio is now you've talked about morgan stanley that's a slice of the system it sounds like spruce mountain that contract looks like it continues for another nineteen years another fifteen years shell energy that's just that's also a slice of the system that that short term to and fifteen year p p a and how what's the is there a megawatt associated with that you know there were two six megawatt solar farms developed and i don't know off the top of my head whether you have point seven point seventy percent of your portfolio i don't know if you're in for a meg or two of that project ok but the next era rise and that is a transaction th it in may of twenty twenty five but what is it it's a it was originally designed to be a slice of a particular power plant the rhode island state and i believe it's rhode island state energy power plant the next their own and what we were trying to do was to get at some efficiencies of the market by saying rather than our supplier saying i will provide you five megawatts every hour guaranteed at some price if this was a way for them the municipalities to say well geez power prices go up and down with the price of gas why don't we effectively buy a piece of a power plant and then the price of power that we get from that plant will vary with the price of gas and on top of that you could then fix your do what you do for gas power what you do there was a floating gas price and it was originally designed as an option so you could precisely do as we were discussing earlier she's today i can buy power from the grid more cheaply than i could produce it from this theoretical power plant and we'd say we don't want to buy that power of next era we're going to buy power in the spot market over the course of time the market changed and the opportunity to turn that option into a fixed price contract at about thirteen dollars below market presented itself we each municipality the opportunity to say whether they wanted to stay with the floating structure or turn it into a fixed price fracture and to achieve everything we'd like to buy we'd like to lock in the price of power today that's thirteen dollars below where we could otherwise buy it if we were to buy power today so that turned into a fixed price contract so well is there a particular power and i'm sorry who is your particular power plant now that we're talking about we're talking now we're talking about a grid power y stuff with the public power from the st lawrence river that's right ok so you talked about the purchase the possible purchase of nuclear ten year contract and i guess in other words they don't control the fuel supply in fuel being wind or high river river water so those contracts are typically done in a  produce form you agree that they show you often to most often they'll show you a history not so much by hour but by month hydro in maine produces more in march april may than they do june july and august so we can shave relatively shape that and price it appropriately to say well on an average year you'll get more in april may june or march april may less in june july august a little more in september maybe some more in october november will put a price to each month to give it in relative value because you may get less megawatts in january but they may be wor eighty dollars out of which you're getting twice as many megawatts in meg but there were thirty dollars we do all the math on that and say the average price of a megawatt from that power plant for the next five years should be forty two by forty eight by fifty one dollars whatever it is based on generating history of the power point it's location on the grid though that's become less and less of an issue because as i said earlier the grid is much more robust there's much less congestion so pricing throughout the grid is pretty much similar so we'll take that and so we know the price of grid power around the clock is like i said roughly forty dollars in the hydro she says it's forty four dollars against the full projection then you know the cost of buying green power in that of twenty five dollars even though this quarter right now today there were ten to fifteen last quarter i sold some for sixteen to eighteen two years ago it's all over fifty in four years ago i behind all the municipal support that went into building the total of fifty five megawatts of wind that are existing and the can modern projects another thirty two  megawatts i believe that's coming on line building new generation new for new of old generators and letting the old ones go out of business letting all yeah letting old renewables absolutely does not letting those guys go out of business absolutely doesn't el don't produce class one racks they produce rocks that are worth a buck if they have to rely purely on the spot market pricing because municipalities or other entities to enter into fixed price long term contracts with them absolutely so a lot of business is already they can't they can't take the variability in pricing either they have mortgage payments they have ongoing operating costs if they're getting paid more absolutely if it fell in p we're energy price we're to go to twenty cents or twenty dollars a megawatt hour on a consistent basis our plants even is from class one generating facilities so that there's five million class one racks produced in new england in a year if you buy them and you buy them and you sell them it doesn't matter as long as the five million are created unless you individually want to say i'm the green guy that just he just uses that grid power and it is so it's a bit of ticks in depending on what your ultimate goal is if you think that the class one racks are being discarded and not used in not valued in therefore we're not supporting new generation being built then it's a different argument than saying you know there's only five million of them available somebody is already buying them from the producers because the producers aren't going to let them go to waste they're going to monetize them as best they can so it's a matter of did he buy em did you buy and did wealthy buy and getting a buy in the belmont if there's only five million available you start driving up the price because maybe you'll pay fifty in new zero god neuer to pay fifty two but unless there's a standard that you must comply with at some point the economics take over and people say let's to pay fifty let them pay fifty  i'm not paying more than that but i don't care because there's only five million and they've all been retired if you want pacifically say we're creating a situation where we're supporting new first developer of the first developer would not likely have built the affordable housing if he didn't say right well that there bill that and yet this other valuable manami i was against and clearly places like plate muni's around because you don't retire virtually any racks but that's not to say that ten percent of your portfolio coming from wind farms solar and hydro without the investment that you make in those projects that they wouldn't have been built or will they wouldn't cissp be sustainably running today it seems to me the most that a socially valuable thing belmont could do is to be a participant in new renewable capacity in the future and not because there's always projects on the margins and the wreck market i assume was developed to facilitate the development of additional projects recognizing that there will be in for marginal projects that will just trade but what counts is having new projects come online in a belmont could be a direct participant in that that would be a very useful thing and i can't disagree with that statement energy new england deals depend directly with the delay plan manager on making these decisions what sort of power what tenure of purchase how much for each get a meeting of the like or divisor committee together before if ever before the light board if you know there's any value in that i mean i understand i mean coming from where i'm coming from in the old days you just wanted to put portfolio together to me to be at least cost in terms of dollars and cents the environment has changed here and you are i'm sure you're well aware of that absolutely so even though there may not be a legal obligation for us to invest in a more green to purchase racks or purchase green power i think it sounds like to me the will of the community is that that's the direction we're going so to have options to look at that include really glad yet again regarding numbers as i said i would expect a great power purchase to fill in your remaining twenty three percent under five cents if you wanted that to be from a class one resource that's probably going to be on the order of seventy eight cents in a class one of well or not because like you said the more you buy the better the price yeah will be if you you have to find the ace sort of specialized resource that's willing to sell again the wind farms are intermittent so they can't say i can deliver you ten megawatts on june eighteenth at ten am on lets you buy one hundred megawatts from them then they can almost guarantee that they'll be at least enough wind to produce stand it but that i would rely on you yeah exactly so there are a couple of different contracts structures  we're actually looking at a contract structure where we could do we could marry someone run of river hydro with wind and if they find a developer or a supplier who's got a large portfolio of both wind and hydro so that they could say you could approach them or we could approach them and say i'd like to buy five megawatts around the clock primarily of when you need to i wanted out of x wind farm and they'd say ok you whenever you're getting up to five megawatts of wind if it's more than five megawatts out of the farm you'll get five if it's less than five will supplement that with some run of river developers and they that's going to take six months to get them to get their teeth around how to structure that contract and determine whether they have the ability within your portfolio to do something like  could be something for two thousand and nineteen absolute specially you know if a five cent power is potentially for two thousand and eighteen lows or costs a little bit maybe then you can invest in something that's a little bit of maybe we can play around  you try and just i know it's been nine o'clock and i recognize the time the terms of the our contracts are those public or private so the only people that know or rd municipal light plant not to ask anything about specifics of that but you can see how they've listed all their plant projects you don't you had nothing to do with that either i'm going to tell you that building reserves or the gaming scheduling charges because i'm pretty sure that that's not they didn't pay fourteen and a half cents for every on average every day that what they bought it from the ok i guarantee you that confidential or not well they do it is they they seem to do it there yeah yeah yeah this is a public document so and that's my point i mean  take is we generally work within some sort of agreed guidelines the eighty five percent number if there are other muni's that are seventy five percent some or ninety five percent  so when you you know with regard to what would it cost to do more green if you got to tell us what would it be to get us to retire racks of to get to x percent or we're happy retiring class three racks to get to x or we want a fifty fifty mix to get the next percent or something along those lines we like no we don't like  get them out of the marketplace it gives you the legal right to say we don't want to use ten percent of the power we supplied to our customers was absolutely produced from a green facility and nobody else in the england can claim those megawatts going back to my that original example if there were five million megawatts megawatt hours of green energy produced and you bought all of those racks of just overflowing with gas you bought all of those racks and nobody else in new england could say we are a green community we have some green power supply belmont could  so roughly five years from the refreshed ten years from the troop study so we're at this point looking to undertake a new cost of service study you just what were purchasing with where what our rates are today and see if those of for us and we fully expect to have a much more long term detailed conversation with the boards and most likely the public to look ok there's nothing on that we can keep moving here to let me let me just say my question a long as been exactly what it is that we want out of the study that sort of defining what it is the we're getting and i think right now well that's it's real money that's all it was not right i question whether it's really twenty dollars because of the twenty dollars was calculated back in an era when lots of people used the manual system to be down to four people who could be much more for that but that that would cover the cost or again about twenty dollars a month if we had a go i mean really really greg did i hear you suggest that we might wait to see what the experiences were the water meters before making your decision on this i think that back isn't a an unfair idea yes we've been wrestling with this well over a year already and we've we've kind of taken that tact we're just looking out and trying to be as proactive as possible through you know we've we've been trying to work with these customers for well over a year  show you're the next one as well yes and this was clearly this one is just purely for conversation at this point but we're being approached we have one customer for sure and we're it's always been well discussed you put solar on your roof you want to put a battery in your home to use the power that you locked for in the daylight hours and use it at night time exact service so we're starting to to receive those requests we stall batteries and the issue that we're really looking at here is we do not have a policy that so we're looking now at the engineering behind these batteries work all day you know well i just wrote all the early nos is it and maybe i'm way off base with what some of that but i think that where these are going to start to come come into fruition here probably just need to give them some really serious now we've got the one request for looking at it for looking to the engineering it's behind the meter i have a hard time saying that we should not allow these a very hard time saying that so inspector would would have inspected it probably told hey by the way this is what you have here similar to a generator we want to make sure that we are our utility workers protected on the lines if there's ever a backbeat so but get to feeding on to the lines so batteries are really the same thing and they are right just a different technology but they could possibly back in the lines or looks like there's some electronic equipment in there that that does the the job question is really right now as we have customers at least one and several more from what i'm told looking to do this really see no reason to prevent it but do we put it in a palsy that's ok for beginning with that you know i would expect the most of these customers if not all of them will strictly want to serve their residents off the grid with these batteries so i don't forsee it to be  we certainly don't want to be viewed in the light of being obstructionist of any sort as far as preventing customers from bringing the first technology on again it's you know we will do as much research shouldn't allow it or we don't have all the that exists today then we can simply say it's behind the meter and really sounds like there are two separate issues one is just the kind of an engineering consideration to make sure that it's safe it doesn't have to back their back feet on the line and secondly since there is the possibility i suppose for an inter and we're just you know using example as a residential home there are commercial businesses and we're talking one little while back well you have a unique you will truck bed full of batteries and but the back of the the practical of how george his recommendation would work in practice for certain committees and it could well be that george could revise this memo in the future when he gets feedback from other groups also but i think for the time being we should abide by whatever he said and us as the third time and have this discussion sitting on various committees so no i mean that or just post  if it doesn't see what else we can do but it is really hard to find alternate dates because you'll be meeting before the next