what is it what is a public trial in other words if there's any restrictions on the number of people on one side or the other is it a violation of  is the judge required to ask the parties how many how many spectators or how many people interested in your case you are going to be present for the trial your concern they had the judge just broken more detail about the security issues the practical concerns about how many jurors there were in the building et developed record would you have the same kind of objections is it we just talking about what kind of findings the judge made  so certainly if this is i this is a case with a great deal interest in the community certainly if a huge number of people came and there were just no seats and fire marshall was concerned about how many people were in the room certainly  would you agree that the judge could make some kind of findings as to how that would be managed so what should the judge have done here so you just it is that the case where there was an objection made and that the court rejected it a finding that in fact this was not an open trial that it was closed even though four members of the public were allowed before we get to the rest of what the trial court should have done record that is before the part you are as me i do need to clear out so it's very difficult to piece together this record because of the way the jury selection went in piecing together the record i took a look at and reviewing for argument i took i went back and looked at was that on the st day the judge brought in at least fifty six potential jurors and he had divided the panel into two days on the nd day that was entirely separate kennels six jurors and so there were more than fifty six jurors on the st day have reviewed the case i notice the errors but it ultimately the record shows that there was a very large jury pool and i want to clear up things on what we do know from the record and we don't think it touches on a lot of just the media was excluded and faxed the record strongly suggest me was not excluded ms the media had requested extended media coverage before trial long before trial and had been present right the proceedings and there's no indication in the record otherwise and that is actually or ensures that jurors testify or witnesses testify truthfully and ensures that the participants of the trial do not are acting with good neutrality and the seriousness that our justice system standard the spartan faster explain that the presence of the public and especially the press in and of itself make sense of the trial is not closed that those are the there were at least about twenty people there we don't know how many more we don't know the system teaches our circle of so there's people for defendant there's people for the victim they had been there throughout the trial so the judge was well aware of who w they approach this problem of where there's no objection in their own jurisprudence talking about structural error and certainly in illinois we have expressly states itself that the remedy for a violation of the public trial right should be proportionate to the actual case of the actual violations expressed lee says that we don't want to give one false to defendant issue read the record and the judge says i deny your request because i spoke earlier that the discretion that the court has in dealing with an issue such as this is so much of this flexibility