believe that that will be for all well that's it wasn't presented just as an issue and with respect to the minority preference question in conoco i understand it wasn't the glory of but the only place i saw any reference other than in the facts to the argument with respect to the applicability of waiver or the merits of the minority preference was in  footnote on page fifty to fifty one which i question whether that raises the question of the minority preference the validity of the minority preference of the validity of the waiver with respect to the minority preference for back i should probably know this because we had several of these cases but i'm still a little unclear exactly how one goes about it in your view properly i couldn't go down to the to the lot my local gas station and ask for either regular high test diesel or military rate i mean that it presumably the only people buying military grade in the united states is th to rise but that's but isn't that where you have to start doing some constructive determination of price another well let's go back to tell me how it is that the agreed upon instead i'm trying to get at tell me what is the mechanism by which that market value is calculated what in this case we would advise that is appropriately calculated by glass which is isis which talks to people every day what are you offering what is the agreed upon price but presumably the people that it talks to with respect to military grade fuel is the already great dispute over well i guess you know what i'm wearing but what i'm having trouble with and don't worry about your time because we're pestering you with questions will give you enough time to make your argument but if we if we have what is the market value of a tank you know a sherman tank well you know it's it's what the government happens to pay for sherman tanks under contracts with the providers of tanks it isn't you can't go out and find a market for sherman tanks so i am having trouble seeing why that there is a and easily ascertain market price for the particular product that's at issue here against which to say well the pm clearly doesn't establish market pressures it's a construct put together with with several different components that don't doesn't reflect the actual may not vary in even in direct proportion i think it's a nice example set out in in the briefs here about how the price of fuel can go actually down in two different markets and the average price can go up pm index work to the government's advantage there were other times it seemed to work in the contractors had been it should certainly and it has has a component a a price the price of fuel and what's much i just want to go back to where we started kind of which is going to play in the rain not the waiver assuming that we accept that you properly raise the issue of the equal protection application in the free then you're left with and other cases it seems like at least some of the cases that was the reason why the person didn't didn't raise it in the time now or at least that the person was not aware of what was going on in the preferences in the auction or whatever it was in a particular case until some later point in time and here that's not the case correct as the factual matter and your client knew what was going on on the small business fact that the contractor didn't know about this at the get go and so i thought that was arguably distinguishable from our case here in the bar that's correct there is a difference i don't think that distinction holds up for purposes of  there was a disclosure price which resulted in a lower price and the argument made and it succeeded was let's go back to my first press before the improper revelation ri kind of sensible damages determination it feels like something that cries now for a determination at the outset through an injunctive action are protesting so that the maine we don't know how many other people were bitter i mean there was no assurance if we agree with your assertion about a violation of equal protection in the that aside and we think the price should have been bumped up higher how to be fair here since you basically taken all of your time with questions is there any point that you would like to make quickly they haven't had an opportunity to make in response to the questions and then i have to move on to  considerably over and you should feel free to take i think we would we have about fifteen minutes extra from mr burt right so if you need the time in fairness we'll offer to you but you should not feel a from what is the government's position on whether or not that would know with the fish and to preserve that issue for appeal can you give me kind of working maybe simplified version of what you see as the principle differences between the way the pm is constructed and the way s plats numbers are constructed because i mean one of the problems that we have in dealing with this is that if you don't have a really neat careered notion of what you're dealing with here it's really hard to assess differences among these and and i'm still somewhat in the blue as to exactly how those three sets of numbers are put together are not exactly how in the dollars and cents and