prisons facility in florence colorado when we filed this appeal of his sentence it was done so  maybe you have haven't thought about it have a different way we can go about it and look at it but i did it just seem to me that we were pretty well bound by grammar in these other  it kind of boil down to least in my mind is if mr larson's crime or any crimes of sexual abuse of a minor or statutory rape is a per se violation or per maybe a district judge would agree with you maybe not in terms of the overall scheme of things is this a case in which there should be a limited reading and first step we sentencing under and marina booker or are mandatory or advisory was something the judge this is no way to predict at that point and in general our practice has been that most of these cases are getting a limited is from our perspective i don't think we have waived the application of booker's at least with mention the impact of booker specifically in reply brief we did not seek a limited remain  that is a remedy that we would certainly welcome the issue as we see it is whether or not all sex crimes or per se crimes of violence and so this pay or even apply anymore produced from our perspective i think the court at the sentencing hearing has to have something other than a pre sentence evaluation to say this is the prior conviction and therefore it is a per se crime of violence in this case there was no evidence resubmission to the district court upon which the court can even i suppose started taking her analysis because there's nothing there and that gives me i guess to ok if there's something submitted really required to be submitted to the courts the judgment or something in addition to that it's a per se violation doesn't matter if there's any faster evidence submitted at all it is one of the circles not appropriate wherein the court can review the record and make a determination whether or not had the district court known of its ability to apart from the guidelines and ram a line it would have here were kind of a violence so to speak of a different nature i think we all agree it's a different degree so it's not excusable but it's of a different degree so i guess the question would be how could we know if one comes from the guidelines and given a free rein to do what makes sense but consider the guidelines how do we know they might do something different well i would suggest reiner and i guess what's that you know i assume i'm just wondering here is a read there's me i'm not sure i can comfortably say that it would come out the same although there is it probably would rather stand your honor i think my comment there would be richard some of the tension among structures in this and other circuits as to whether or not they were going to categorize it as per se credit and if we do look let's stop there because i m m i've had some trouble with say we're going to stand back because now he's got discretion but if the judge are you saying his comments would indicate that he agrees that it's a crime violence even though the station he's going to have the force that has to go briefs and this morning we asked the question of counsel should we go forward unless we see an absolute expression formally from mr larson that practically however i would suggest that should the court be inclined to have a limited remain and that once it's back before this record i think mr larsen at that point would have the ability or i don't want to i