order so much meeting the regular council meeting of monday june twenty third two thousand and fourteen roll call please mr next item on the agenda would be audience comments this is a portion of the agenda in which a member of the audience can come up and speak on a non agenda item which would be an item that's not on the agenda do we have anybody that would like new business is the consent agenda the purpose of the consent to jeddah is to improve the efficiency of our meeting and to avoid having people wait for items that apparently require little or no discussion these will be acted with self sewerage planning module approval for two on large systems sewer systems for two proposed temp plus acre lots on johnston and thomas roads and finally number three finally your renewal of the winner made its agreement for the target to do snow removal on selected state roads mr chairman i'd like item number two to be removed from the consented tender and i'd like to cary's seven zero so now we'll discuss art of number two the reason i wanted this removed mr chairman we've had a lot of issues reported recently about poverty damage to the runoff and flooding and other issues and i wanted to clarify a but the reason i asked is because we had these issues with adjacent properties and my concern was that there be a corrective plan in place if something occurred and it was unclear to me that that was what was going to happen and al a giant eagle for a special permit for acoustic live music friday through sunday from to work from nine pm july fourth through september thirtieth at the market district express twenty eight forty  live music on our outdoor patio in our market district express location on friday saturday and sunday from the time of four o'clock at night tonight am i this would run from july fourth to september thirtieth i would be a mixture of either individual is it sunday also the calendar shows sunday year would be friday saturday sunday and the times you're saying or forty nine would that be the same for every day that would be the same for every day what is your misery either guitar or typically what i do is i invest in property so that i can make a living with my wife and one of the properties that we've invested in happens to be on camera drive and it's up behind  the market and i think everybody realizes that sound travels straight up it doesn't go down it goes up and since we're behind place we're going to have to contend with the music now it wouldn't be so bad but i need to try to rent displace and giant eagle shouldn't have the right to infringe upon my business and bill and he's by doing this with this outdoor  music and especially since it requires a special exemption i keep my business within the means and within the rules and the waltz of what we're supposed to do and i don't ask for special things zale can tell you that i think but it's just going to hurt my business if somebody comes to rent the place and there's music going on the first thing is they're going to say does this happen all the time or why do you think it would be car cruising anywhere where there's a close residential area there's always always the talk about the residents trying to shop a car cruised on cars or music no matter how low but no matter what type there's always somebody who's not going to like and i know that if i were looking to rent the place and i come down the driveway and i heard music going on the for first thing i'd say is this goes on all the time no i don't think i want to live here so they don't have the right to hurt my business because they want to special exemption actually where i feel appreciated  my name is john adams i live at one one two cambridge drive we've been there for thirty years we live directly behind the center of the giant eagle properties first thing i'd like to say and i'm going to pass out you speak yours both at the dance station and at the also the pharmacy and others and very clearly in response back from the township was the giant he will  not be permitted to use outside speakers for music advertised except for they are right now using speakers on this patio and we are hearing them in our backyard and  there were there are a number of other things that have gone on where we were told when they were seeking approval they said they do this they do that thing such as they do attics or space twelve feet onto the car wash building so the doors  shot while the cars were in it even a current they shut the door but they had blowers right at the end of the car wash so the doors are open and the blowers are going yet you have approximately by mine measurement about fifteen to twenty feet when you enter the building with nothing so they didn't follow through they put twelve feet on the building but they didn't do us any good we put up with a lot already we have the beat beat beat going on all the time at four forty in the morning this is the kind of noise we have had wants and i think there are a whole bunch of other neighbors here who will say the same thing we are right adjacent to this property they did not put a very good vegetation barrier they put up is worthless because it's dying because they put it behind the fence we like the fence but the vegetation should have been in front of it to absorb the sound they tore out a lot of vegetation that was there that would have been much better for us  very adamantly against having outdoor live music and our speakers should be turned off in that area to comply with what the township told us would be the requirements if you have proof for them you will zach and then we'll have the battle of the bands between music at vizag as in music at giant eagle express so you will find i think there are a bunch of other neighbors here who will say the same thing we do not want music in our neighborhood shut because it was december i could hear the christmas carols and not line up to sing along with them in my kitchen ok they sit down in a hole in it all goes right up both sides the hill like any empathy it are and i thought ok it's one day all right we'll roll with it and just like music and they had their doors wide open and it was in our house actually still pictures on the wall and tour enough fuss was made that that was shut down consider their neighbors their fact right up to a residential neighborhood and everything goes on on their travels right up the hill you know whether it's the lights whether it's noise the last thing we need is more noise than the hillside and we have to hear whether we want to or not just curious when the car dealership was there did you have any noise at all that you know really didn't bother us except for the high lights that were up on you know like like eighty's carol was not well enough to come tonight but i have a letter of a note from her could i read it sure is not a right i carol does well i'm against music of any kind being played at market district express i live at zero four cambridge drive and am against him and jane and i manage jason neighbor to the market is tricky express i would have come to the meeting in person but i'm not feeling well and have decided to stay home my stanley is also against any music being claimed we have lived at one hundred four camper drive for forty years and feel that this is a gross invasion of our privacy their house is about fifty yards from this patio so it's we're not talking fields away we're talking right next door and i think you heard the neighbors talk about the noises that we've heard we've only complained about the very worst of the noises it's part of living there but again we're asking you not to add to that and i understand that you feel like or you think that the noise on nineteen makes more noise than the music because i heard you say that i would have my regular goes up to the t foremost coffee shoppers worst place opened by blood or well good for but but i would agree with you maybe between five and six on friday nights that the traffic on one thousand makes a lot of noise but later on and also on sundays it's quiet we can sit up there and enjoy our outdoor patios in not as nice as it was prior to the job you go express but they don't usually have to live reason to back up the constant  on as much on that we can and again we're just asking you please don't do that it doesn't seem necessary to make their business successful  was there any discussion mr column about closing in part of the patio we're trying to keep the music more contained you know canopies or sometimes no closure here we're in the process of about two weeks out from installing canopies around the then they're going to run the risk of getting drowned out by ninety so they're going to have to meet in the middle and i sort of amplification is certainly going to go across the open side of that parking lot and right up to our houses i don't see  my my consistent point in these meetings has been just please respect their business and our lives there you know try to keep that line is definite as you can you know we understand their business they're in the make money this may help them make money fine and then they can put the music on the inside you know it's mr knapp said my music should be my choice not can find the ones that are not further discussion i had three questions if you would mind no normal mr so are the senators on these homes twenty five feet yet i don't have any recollection of approving that but ok is there going to be a all know very narrow in twisting is there any plan to create any kind of widening at the entrances for the buses to swing in order for them to come back out on the sugar camp you know should camp is adequate for the traffic that's projected to move in and out of this neighborhood see i understand the word adequate and i guess that's what's worrying me because we have a lot of roads that are adequate and then when it comes down to them being used in traffic flowing past and you know it's just i'm just wondering if we were taking any look at whether something could be done to make the entrances a little bit more easy for entrance and exit we can look at that and make sure the radius which i am confident they are will comedy school bus traffic another question not for tonight but for a future we probably need to have a conversation about sugar camp and where it ends over by tracks because that we would and that we have been discussing that in our meetings in engineering meetings in that that intersection is in union township but i think we need to get together with the union at some point discuss that intersection i think that would be a good then no one's really sure whether or not charging the township for use is going to be a problem they're just trying to switch the burden on to this poor and i just wanna make sure the border stands in the for the short time it doesn't seem to be the issue but down the road of four years from now someone says we should have been paying all along in a brain action because of the indemnification i want to make sure what i don't know what the monthly bill would look like are you the yearly bill on the on the buildings is it going to be a potential hundred thousand dollar liability  years is it worth the risk or not pay because it's your citizens are ultimately pain one way or whether you pay the bill or comes to the authority is it all shades out of the way we look at the map but the way it was written i'm not sure just what the potential risk would be canceled and looking at the buildings probably in this complex the building that gets the most usage from sewage and water usage standpoint would be the library because of the number  those are the kinds of on there you're looking probably between all of them you're probably looking at a few thousand dollars a year twenty years gloria but i i have a different perspective on this and if i could just share in my opinion the library based on documentation that you find is the library and nonexempt nonprofit and one day potentially be exempt from that in the language that you pad why should my fee be more when there are people not paying their face so from my perspective i think we need the time she needs to standardize and just bite the bullet and make the agreement to pay whatever they have to pay that would be my pain and if we could get the library exempt that would be good the but i don't know if it's even a blip that little bit of a year but it would be it would make more sense if we did ok cross the word because then the taxpayers in that district would be subsidizing right this but see your comments about sharing equipment and using quote me and that it's a little bit concerning too because unless that offer is extended to the alternate sanitary authority i think we need to be careful  i mean the authority and i'm concerned because authorities are a different entity unto themselves and i don't profess to know one hundred percent the most regulations but we know that we've had issues in the past when we tried to we need sure but i think the bigger issue the border just kind of ferret it out is that should we be doing the be any of this anyway my point i think we ought to pay our bills it's an emotion  the low bid would be from peter caruso and sons were both alternatively thirty two thousand and six forty five our budget for the amount was thirty two thousand i would point out  same budget category we had a playground project with was significantly get about thirty thousand or twenty six thousand less than budget so we can still do this with stay within the overall budget of that category there's a bill for that now for ninety four thousand dollars and you just send a check for thirty one thousand dollars for the new ls it's the best life support want to put an ad in the paper and or brochure for the county convention last year we did a half page at three dollars five cents for and then the other thing is they have a draft resolution i don't know if you want that to be considered our agenda or you don't want to we've reported before the other car companies going out and basically cutting all the trees out of their hundreds were right away for the transmission line they've been through peter's wood park and they're working their way out of township some years ago when they first the first time they came to do cutting under the power lines they'd waited a few years they would wire meant that they'd take trees out from under power lines to prevent terrorists from getting to their power lines fair and that we give consideration all the various state of aspects that are mandated on us including the veterans preference that so we we looked at the issue and  how it's being handled elsewhere you want to you know unfortunately some of the communities we don't have civil service but we've been working on a proposed policy and procedures for hiring that we feel will address the issues and give us the ability to hire the most qualified people and i'm going to apologise summarize it this is this is something that's been new lives in other locations seeder that allows us to have a to be sure that we're hiring qualified individuals at the same time complying with the mandates of the state particularly with regard to veterans preference so the purpose of veterans preference act is intended to give a preference but at the same time to ensure that the candidate that is hired is a qualified candidate so that on the top of the packet in just for your information this is so what when we look at this what we need to be able to do within our procedures is to regardless of what the position is is to establish a testing  we can identify a pool of qualified candidates and we do this routinely in our firing already for police officers firefighters public works employees we have a testing process we go through it results in the creation of a pool that pool is deemed to be qualified and then based upon that we check someone's whether they qualify for veterans preference and we if they do we hire that person of the pool if not we hired the best application of that pool so one of the things that occurs with the veterans preference is that you're not necessarily hiring the best candidate but you're hiring a qualified candidate where we have run into a problem in the past in this is going to become very critical to the township given the fact that remember a lot of turnover in a ministry of employees in the near future particularly to parkhead and boys with retirement s coming up that we need to have in place a process that allows us to be sure the the that we create a pool of qualified candidates from which we're choosing people so what you have behind this yellow she is a detail hiring policy that we intend in the future to come due to you and ask you to adopt we're still in the process of reviewing this but in the meantime is my point we have a number of positions that we need to be hiring for right now so we want to go ahead and seat on the bases as though that policy was in place this yellow sheet on top is the cliff notes  version of what that procedure says the first thing we're going to do is anytime we go out to hire we're going to pull up the job description review that job description in the manager's office and the department head for that position to make sure that the job description still matches the what it is we're asking both in terms of what the responsibilities of the job are but also key key job functions and minimum qualifications all positions because there are there public positions will be advertised and what we do based upon the position is the term in the appropriate venue for advertising so they all show up on our website but in addition to that some are advertised in the paper s and then based upon the position we will sit down to make a determination about what is the best testing procedure that makes sense so for instance inside public works department right now if you were to apply for a job as a laborer you would be similar testing exists and each of those testing procedures is unique to the position that we're hiring for an administrative employee probably a physical agility test and a skills test may not be something that makes any sense but on the other side oral interviews can be graded applications can be graded it may well be that we want to do it in a point that assessment exam so one of the things we do then is the create this test than administer this test the test or minister for the purpose of determining the top three candidates and by definition what we're saying is you've got to get into the pool of three to be determined to be qualified so by counsel to determine the preference for who you would hire and it would be that pool of three that would still be subject to the veterans records act the thing about the act is that you've got to realize that it's really kind of unique is that the act applies to all levels of positions whether it is of labor or a police officer or a firefighter a secretary and apartment head or the manager's position so all positions are subject to this and one of the things that might well lose to it is a unique problem a second class townships and homer communities that were second class township is that in a lot of other  classifications just like the state as a civil service process those we dissipate these have a civil service process close townships do not so you have to come up with something that kind of mimics what a civil service applications are being taken from external candidates and in turn again to date the the one exception of the veterans per for intact in terms of building a position is that if you would promote so that like for instance within the police department if you had a captain in the police department in the chief or to leave and you were not accepting applications you could move the captain into the chief's position if you open those applications up to the world and colluding allowing the captain to apply veteran's preference would come in in the play in the end and the captain could not be appointed to the visitation even if he was the most qualified if there was a veteran who was qualified who would apply the definition that you method that we're proposing has not been tested anywhere other than other municipalities and where we've also seen it is in state universities use this meth who will be developing tests that you propose to have these days it would be some of them are tests that we have used for expensive periods of time so for instance the physical  the saying you're relying on existing document and testing with some of it exams some of it for instance the test that is a minister within the public works department is actually one that was developed information about all protected classes from our applications so we don't ask questions or reveal age we don't where you get we don't do that but what we were also going to do is remove the question that asked whether or not you're a veteran or asking for veterans preference so that we don't know that up front so that we don't we wouldn't do this so we don't get accused of using that as a piece of every nation for eliminating somebody from consideration so at the maybe you can do that and people disclose protected information all the time so i think that's the other thing is that you don't know is whether or not he he or she is asking for be here for a while and you want the best in the best or sense it and i think because you can at the same time meeting a good public policy objective providing opportunities for veterans of the same time make sure that the them you know butler or other places that would like to attend there are a lot of townships here or exactly the same places we are thinking about exactly the same things that we're thinking about and i  three school board members to work with us on that and i just want to know if counsel wanted to also have represented as participating in the committee and looking at that  to be reconstructed in two thousand and fifteen and the matter that i wanted to bring up is related to that because i've gotten comments from a number of residents along the nation road about the excessive speeding and the danger of the traffic volume and now they're concerned that once the bridge and of course it's not built yet or anything but once it's pale and they're still ain't in and everybody has to stop and start again they're afraid that the speed will become worse now i talked about this with mr sylvester once before and he indicated because it's a state road we have very limited ability to do anything however the residents in that area are very close to the road many of their driveways you have to back out into t get out of their driveways it's a hazard it's a major hazard and i think that as the township representatives we need to figure out a way to talk to the state about it and i'd like to see if we could perhaps have a dialogue with our state representatives or penn daughter whoever and i wondered if you could possibly give some insight mr sylvester as to how we could go down to to work to try to get the speed limits reduced stand or get some different si