with district court also exchange that it is required under the rules can extend the period at that time not just under the local rules but also under federal rule forty five which allows time here is to be extended based that supreme court case will teach is us that when there's a rule based deadline that's not jurisdictional and it's something that can be waived by they'll decide it's going to be but if it's a it's a inflexible bar correct correct but when it statutorily based bill it no matter district court might want to extend something it can't do it because congress has said that the deadline and that's it then this records can't faced with an attempt to rejuvenate an extinguished way to appeal here we're dealing with an effort to file a motion for reconsideration which everybody has to concede fell outside the thirty day appeal itself you had thirty days to appeal and you did not file an appeal within those thirty days correct that's correct isn't that exactly what's positive in here when it says we're not faced with an attempt to district may reopen the time to file an appeal for a period of fourteen days the district court misled the lawyer terribly instead i'll give you seventeen days in the will had to be quite surprised when after the exactly what the so what the court did was extended a jurisdictional limit it could not do that and that's what about the senate race because there is no statutory limit on the time period in which the district court can allow a motion it's final on the thirtieth date right correct ok but you say you can come back on the thirty fifth day after everybody would agree that it was final on that very day and say you know what we'd like to  n a criminal case and it absolutely does not what he really does is it creates a thirty day default period where there is no applicable rule and the supreme court said that explicitly over and over in brow circumstance where a motion for reconsideration has been asked which would have you filing the motion excuse me an extension was requested which would have you filing a motion for reconsideration out the outside of the statutory three yes i can i  well and what happened in our group she was the appeals court it was a direct appeal to the supreme courts of the appeals it was a district court situation who kills court granted a extra time to see reconsideration and middle while the actually the appellant there the petitioner on social rory actually more time i think fifty eight days or something like that he filed fifty two days and the supreme court said no this is dismissed we have a extinguished an attempt to rejuvenate in the extinguished appeal so my only point here is that we're not dealing with a clean slate silly in fact talks about the foot sides of a single coin in other instead of the district court in which case entering were dealing with government or time if the government had filed a motion for reconsideration on that they the twenty seven or twenty nine then time to appeal run well known via vehicle of a regional variation motion filed after thirty days to come into title consideration two years later i don't know whatever that doesn't matter that's a discussion of the district court but what read really to me all in order to correct this apparent you know infrequent despite my my colleague's representations as to what maybe never gets reported but when you look at the not convinced that that these issues have been cited in here only if you look at this as though you were coming to it with a clean slate then i would just hear honor's that what is needed here is a bright line of have a little bit of a on it until the thirty one has the right to appeal extinguished it does not matter when the district court rules on it matters when it's filed so you could have you know if that thirty days is not self executing on the hypothetical i just gave him why would it be self executing in cases like this where the district court specifically do even more time because there's past the statutory thirty so thirty one period to file reconsideration motion does not have an effect on the appeal period it governs the reconsideration proceedings and i do i do need to pause rogers and point out th a don't people turns on this but if you look at this record it's quite clear that any district court did not the motion was filed with the government was a motion to continue trial suppression was ordered a motion it was nothing about extend time to reconsider or anything else is the reason they want to continue trial was their response and were considered either appeal or perhaps motion yes so then there's a telephone conference which is not a record then there's an order saying i'm granting the continuance of the and that's extraordinary the supreme court went out i would i would venture a little bit on not a limb but it extended the in trade into a jurisdictional territory when it meant when it said it  it were you know to extend the appeal period so i don't think you know there's any issues here of you know the government the government being hamstrung they had attention for before outlet if it fought if the government thought it needed more time here and instead i think it it took a course they however however often is taken here in this office is i would suggest  don't know that we don't have we have a docket sheep that shows petition granted and takes they were filed we don't have the underlying paper so show what was going on there we don't know the details of this fifteen year old case but never result in a published decision from the supreme court seems to be pretty definitive response to a response that is it's stated in a case in which there was not a timely most of the reconsideration at any time doesn't seem to be bothered by that all it said it asked to be concluded that a motion browder said the opposite of what they both say clearly it's very timely motion for reconsideration in the period and they timeliness is defined by whatever rules in existence and if there is no rule the a different time here there's not just a look rule but also federal rule of criminal procedure forty five which says the district court on its own motion or on the parties motion make then the time for filing under a local  why don't you ask for a transcript of the argument we would like to go back around in the circle some more time ok so thanks very much