this is actually a special meeting tonight november tenth two thousand and fourteen we are honored to be joined by the board of selectmen which will be joining us closer to the seven thirty hour so we have a joint meeting tonight but we're going to begin school committee only here at seven o'clock we have a teaching and learning highlight a new program that this is going to introduce us to with some visitors are going to join us and then at seven thirty we will be joined in joint meeting by the board of selectmen for  review and a discussion first look at the fiscal year two thousand and sixteen revenue forecast in the budget and then also a new idea of joint maintenance budget approach between the municipal side of the town  so an interesting new night tonight and i want to thank everyone for joining we have two members of our committee who are absent tonight the one who be joining us we think in a little while the other is unavailable but we do have a quorum so we'll get underway and it's nice to see already again second week in a row as much as i like to see i'm glad we don't do this week but we do have some some good agenda items tonight and  i know i didn't mention this but as always i'll entertain any visitors that are here that would like to be recognized prior to our published agenda we don't have any coming to the table we do have four members of the board of selectmen here already it's nice to see them and  ron brownstein name correctly you have k and mr jerry craig here to speak to you a little bit more in depth than i can about project contemporary competitiveness competitiveness or p c c as it is known which is often in partnership with stonehill college the region aided in southeastern massachusetts forty seven years ago and there are currently twenty four member districts so dr gerhard can certainly give us a little bit more background about how this started but to update you to where we are currently this summer i was invited to come to a meeting at stonehill about p c c because they were thinking of extending the offer of membership to other districts other than those who  typically been members in the past so i was really interested it is where i met jared craig and he is the professional actor that's been here at the high school helping out with our drummer in theater program thank you so we have sort of dual interests at the time and he's a graduate of p c c so we can speak to it as a student when he was in high school but i think just to give you a general in you know introduction to people watching at home who don't have the memo in front of them that was quite detailed p project contemporary competitiveness really offers high school students incoming ninth tenth and eleventh graders the opportunity to go to stone hill in the summer for an advanced studies program six weeks aeration and they stay there and live there during the week and go home on weekends and it offers so many different classes that are pretty exciting and while we were there in the summer p c c was ongoing so you could see the activity that was happening all of the students there and basically so what we're here tonight is to hear a little c what the benefits are for our district i am recommending that we join p c c as a member district and there is a fee it's a dollars per student in your district want to be up front about that and there are some there are many benefits to it that we can discuss it was developed by school superintendents one thousand nine hundred sixty eight it was a federal grant and it was designed to provide opportunities at the time for gifted and talented students this is the forty eighth year this coming summer and it's an opportunity for us to formally extend an invitation to foxborough to join the twenty four school districts p c c it's primarily a leadership program for high ability nine ten ten eleven to create and i'd like to deviate just a moment i've been associated with the program for thirty years twenty years as a school superintendent the board of directors is made up of school superintendents and i've been the executive director for ten years two years ago my wife and i were involved in a very serious head on collision and i woke up in the hospital with a marvelous nurse to ask me how i was feeling and i said i was ok too i got hit by this car and she said that accident recommended an attorney so i walked into the attorney's office and i had never met anyone there and the woman came over unsaid she said i recognize your name i'm a graduate of c take care then i had to get to a chiropractor and i'm i'm on the table and i'm being stretched and going through great pain and the accident you need an attorney and you have to go to a chiropractor i suggest p c c we offer thirty six courses in the morning and that's thirty six courses range from american sign language to architecture to aviation to china and america to france ixion submarines science psychology sociology we offer new courses every summer we have forty college students from across the country who provide supervision for all our students the program is very very well supervised and they are there twenty four hours they stay with the students from the time they come in monday morning until they leave on friday afternoon and we have twenty one thousand the law at this point over those years we've had astronauts brian duffy we've had actresses eva that and we've had leaders in the senate the house everyone that has been associated with p c c has said it changed their life and i truly believe at this point and they've guaranteed us fifteen students this summer we had three last summer and then we had over forty that visited the program and if you become a member of p c c they're going to offer you an opportunity to have a sister school exchange program where your high school students could spend a week in china and have an exchange from china students here and i just met lee chen this morning for lunch and he indicated that he would like me to offer that to you as another incentive to join p also p c c in stone hill in my discussion with the stern help people we will offer foxborough full scholarship that would be twenty to ninety five it's less than four hundred dollars a week was a full scholarship that you could use any way you like you could use it for one student or you could divided up among as many students as he liked that would be your funding and we'd like to offer that to you the other incentive if you will the p c c program for the summer that you would be formally involved in begins june twenty eighth which is essentially the next fiscal year so there would be no administrative cost superintendents banalities indicated until the next fiscal year because we've already concluded this current summer that's what i wanted to share with you and i know that you're on a limited time schedule and we very very much appreciate the opportunity to come and speak with you jared what this what opportunities provide for students we you know that's different so if you guys want to come up while gerrard's do a good thing and have some input afterward so great thank you i just want to thank everyone for taking time to hear about this program that is very near and dear to my heart just give you a little bit of background about who i am is i am the founding president of the newly formed p c c along organization my wife and i and a few of our friends started this at the beginning of this year really because we're so excited about this program we want more students to hear about it's we want to fund scholarships for kids who are having trouble financially who can't afford to go that's one of our main priorities reaching out to parents and creating a strong alumni network so one of the benefits is that fox persons would then become a part of this strong alumni network that dr greer has alluded to in his many interactions and in his life i am a fox my resident my wife and i moved here about a year ago  before this was even in the works and often talk a bit more about that later i do have two children who you know a big consideration was the school system and foxboro is known academically as has a great reputation and  we are very excited that our kids will be going i guess to this high school which is fun to think about and i'm actually currently has as mrs bailey said directing a dollhouse down the hall with mikhail and it opens next week thursday friday saturday if years and i've been a master teacher of the theory class there for the last two years and plan to go back this year i credit p c c as being the thing that has had the single greatest impact on my life and in a positive way overwhelmingly positive i feel like it allows p c students to dream any dream that they want and get them closer to making that dream a reality for me i dream to be a professional actor and i was well aware from my parents as one of the most difficult paths to choose for a career and i had people there telling me that i could do it and giving me the faith and confidence that i needed to pursue a pretty illustrious dream and i went on to have a very competitive career i had been acting freshly the last seven years i'm going to do a play in france for the next two months actually and i went to an acting conservatory at b u and i'm still continuing to pursue that career when it coincides with family life so it it is something i've had a good deal of success with and i do credit a lot of it to c it really accelerated my path of personal self discovery the friends i made a piece you see accentuate the best parts of myself it creates an atmosphere that allows good students to become great people not just academically but it  broadens horizons in many different ways that that we can talk more specifically about if you're interested in the program i think happens at the perfect time for students for me as an eighth grader i was a little shy pretty timid and really overwhelmed by the prospect of going to a high school where they would be seniors who could drive and and you know i was finally become the oldest person in the school in eighth grade i was going back to being the youngest again i wasn't sure what the dichotomy would be and throughout those six weeks that first summer i really knew that everything was going to be ok because we had these college age proctors telling us we're good people telling us that you know they believe in us and that to me i just took everything that they were saying to heart and flourished in high school after became the cornerstone of my career and were things that were instilled in me at this program now as a parent it's incredibly important to me that my two kids grow up and go to this program i'm sure that because of the ties that i have that i'll be able to  get them into this program when they're old enough to go that's that's not really what i'm concerned about why i think i would like foxworth to join for my personal reasons and for my students is the peace that i can provide is what my wife and i experience from being at district schools i met my wife at p c c by the because this program was so near and dear to our hearts and one thing that that we felt was important to the p c c experience is going back to the high school after these these two summers and then our friends both of us are seeing her we really use that as a springboard to support each other's goals ideas and dreams and her friends all did it my friends all did it in two separate into separate schools and it really launched just the next level so i'm confident that i could provide this program for my students but  i'm asking for the school committee to help in providing this whole experience with the community at large and i hope that you guys will will consider this very seriously i think that the students who attend this program ten to have a tendency to flock to get through their high school career because it's an intensely emotional bonding experience i mean if you can just imagine being in a room not in a room but you know putting a bunch of kids together with college kids who seem cool and exciting and have this life experience and them telling you that you're a cool and exciting individual as an eighth or ninth grader it's incredibly intoxicating and so we found that those groups tend to sort of stick together and make lifelong friends i actually spoke to my p c roommate earlier today from ninth grade and not because of this meeting and we were just emailing back and forth and like i i'm going to bring this up tonight because it's just it's just a great example of how these friends are lifel proud of what we've done in just the short time that we've existed so because of all of these reasons that i've given to you earlier that my wife and i really want to give back to the program that change your life so we decided to form the p c alumni organization with fewer friends so it's in our first year we've a tremendous amount of excitement from alumni people are are hearing about it through word of mouth because we haven't officially public publicized yet because we're trying to roll up a big campaign in january and people are contacting us now asking how they can get involved so we know of at least eight alumni who are our age who live in foxboro and are willing to write testimonials to any and all of you on behalf of this program i didn't want to come on too strong in and seemed like we were you know trying to create a coup so i have them on speed dial if you couple that met working on this program to one of the goals of our organization is to create a strong alumni network and ideally your stews would be open to that we see it being like a like a social networking group where if mcallister looking at a certain college and she can search the database and see that an alumni went there who's willing to be contacted that she could then reach out and say is this something that i could i could be interested in this my focus and that she would have this personal touch from someone who believes in this program  and who now know is the type of student she is just based on the fact that she went to p c c we have many successful alumni who are willing to reach down and help those students who are treading the same paths that they did so i hope that you see the value in this program and have i really hope that you have this district join p c to create future alumni for fox for so just to conclude as a resident of fox for an apparent a future fox first school district children i want to wholeheartedly urge foxborough school committee to join the twenty four member districts that are already members of the project contemporary hear briefly from the principals although i have a sense that there's not a lot of selling required but people have fleas so i just have to say that i went to when my korean was sending his daughter to p c c why we did not belong in terms of the experience if they happen we're looking at the opportunities to enrich their lives that course offerings that they have and the experience too become part of something that different from  foxborough it did change her life she's in eleventh grade now she went two years ago and she had the opportunity to go away from home for the first time it was only twelve miles but she developed some independent planning and poise maturity and sophistication as well as a group of friends that she connects with today and she probably will continue to do that so i think that  in an enrichment sense which is where we're looking for and a personal sense for personal development i think that it's something that i've seen through mark's experience with his daughter as something that's quite positive and in her life very reasonably priced and something that fits our ideals so i'm really happy that we're here together talking about something that could be  i've also known jared and many students from across the state for many years more than i really want to count and i can tell you that there are two things that always seem to bring a connection to many of them one is their connection to student council if they were heavily involved there and the other is the p c c part of it so not only is it enrichment which was mentioned about the classes but the connections in the interconnections of the students make really across the same tire state and that those connections still there and the other offerings that are there as well the keynote speakers that come in and the other social activities that also take place just really allow this program to be kind of the full book and i i see it really truly is a win win for our students another opportunity for them to be able to to go after some dreams or to further pursue some things that maybe we have on a limited basis in our school but here you could be focusing on for six weeks every day in that just the one year requirement that you have already pay for the next fiscal year so you're century paying for the summer that you've already enjoyed right i understand but if we did it for a year and we found that we only had a handful of students or none then we wouldn't we do it with something that we should reassess yes and my other question is what is the application process would it be open to all of our students would they have to be recommended by  teachers and i'm assuming that the tuition would be paid by family it's individuals yes it's definitely it's a family trees it's something that i don't know if any in of europe it's a family with you know my kids went to a college ecology kadam which is a different organization but it's for because you know i don't think it's an accident that the word competitive is in the is in the title because i think this does give our kids a competitive advantage in terms of other students and and also the global connection character recommendation from the guidance counselor and to teachers ok ok run the related question i'm going to ask is is there a limit per district there's a quota per district we haven't really been forcing that quota over the past several years so i would say for a school district your size the quote is around fifteen to twenty students but we're flexible on that if we were fortunate enough and you were to exceed that number i just hire more proctors and so you haven't had the experience of turning people away it sounds like i have not in the past year or two so there's there is room there but normally it would be fifteen twenty cities are you know i didn't mean interrupt you know that was that he answered that question and we were able middleborough to add some students beyond our quota in a couple of years there knowing for example how our senior project has ramped i can picture this potentially i mean i went to summer conflicts and priorities but i just want to know what our cash is if there is it sounds like there's not a cap but we work together on space exactly ok and when we think about you know sometimes that the cost is something that we're always looking at for families and it is that full six week program you can't break that down you go for that entire time but when you do find out what the tuition is it four hundred dollars for room and board for those less than for that time  they can go wherever they want on their own so this might be really good option for students who want to do something that speaks to their interest at that level and we do provide presentations and workshops if you would like  lumni that are already here we can easily arrange that in order to provide an opportunity to get the publicity i think an informational evening meeting for parents would be we'd be more than happy to do that and we it really would be something had to be convenient for parents to come and find a little more especially since it does require boarding during the week that's it's definitely a step up in terms of what some parents might be thinking  twenty four hours and we keep them busy i was just to say that i think this is a great opportunity for an age group that centered around i remember my freshman like incoming freshm sometimes into the senior start applying for colleges like early action early in the fall and preparing the summer but if you're an incoming freshman or software where you really don't have much going on over the summer you know you might not my peers for two or maybe if you don't have anything going on and you hear about this program i feel personally like i would jump on it if it's something that i can make explored something i couldn't do in school or something i might not do normally and be able to be with the new group of people it's a great seem to be a great opportunity to reach out like step outside of that box like that box where you are like maybe like get out of your country comfort zone meet new people and make friendships i like last a lifetime and that sounds like and personally like i would  no go for it so timing wise it looks like the deadline for receipt of applications is friday february sixth from the material so this is something that was you last year it was just this year's i'm looking at the thousand and fifteen pound oh yeah i'm sorry so sorry this is the one you updated if you are what if we if we were to join we need to get moving on and the information way and the application given that the holiday and r the if i mike we have a meeting of the c c guidance counselors this friday then you would be more than welcome to send in here guidance people and at that time we distribute the catalogs and the application forms so we haven't started our own process yet so you're perfectly right on target to come into the program and debbie and diana your thought as we would start informational fly at underneath my mom right over it's right in the middle so i am very pleased with the presentation and as always with the opportunity to expand our educational opportunities beyond the four walls of the school so i want to applaud the superintendent and the staff for bringing this forward i also personally like the relative low cost and what makes me feel comfortable about adding an incremental cost to our budget personally is knowing that we're running under have been and there are our best projections well it's really in the school year that will continue to to under run our current budget so you wouldn't see in this year a point so if you will see it right in the december budget we present for f y sixteen point so i know i'm comfortable and it does sound like a program that would give us a lot of bang for our dollar per student you're right and the other thing i like to was i like how it expands our curriculum offerings for those students who are in the enrichment and challenge area yeah i mean these are career and lifestyle choices as jared talked about i think the more those we can offer in today's educational environment the better and schools are only trending towards more and more of that so we certainly don't offer aviation science here we do have kids that are interested in that  so many of the classes that really stood out for me so i was very happy to be in by the summer to come to find out information and to be invited to consider doing so would anyone like to make a motion at this point i would like to make a motion that we if i did request the board to approve foxborough pending approval of the school committee and they have done that so year in all great  master's personal association but also has a terrific background of management as well so we are very pleased to have her aboard and i was i couldn't help but think the other day we were sitting on the table and we had  home away from home i guess and as i talked about at the beginning of the evening the purpose of the joint meeting us is twofold first to review and discuss the outlook for fiscal year sixteen revenue forecast and budget mr scholars who is does a great job for distribute the consolidated documents and i realize it's cool side it's a pulmonary document and it pretty much is it that on the town side as well will distribute those just before the holidays for holiday reading  selectmen as required by town by law it's required that we need a review of political balance budget with the board the first their first meeting in february so we will do that as we always do and  then by then we will have completed our all of our internal reviews and made any adjustments that we need to make and then we'll have to go into the capital part of the budget process and we'll need as richard fishley do the first saturday in march to have all the departments present their capital requests it's a pretty efficient process the c h p committee actually ranks reviews and votes their recommendation that day so we can and present them back to the board of selectmen pfizer committee and of course back to school committee as well right after that and then things pretty much finalized and settle out with revenue or any minor adjustments we have to make in the month of march and then we'll bring fo a final recommendation of targeting the first week in april to the board of selectmen so they can make their recommendations buys or committee make their final recommendations right after that and then it's up to the races to the printer and  review the draft advisory committee budget review scheduled this is the traditional schedule where we need to have every wednesday night in january in the first wednesday in february starting public safety public works culture recreation services general government and the public schools although the idea's been floated this year that potentially we might take a page out of the cow process and hold meetings on on a saturday or two to make this process more efficient that's still to be determined by the advisory committee and obviously would need to be by and you know from the school committee on the house and it's a will that if that changes or and it does have to do with our surplus but it's one we have been telling mother about for the last three years since let's jump right into it this is the f y sixteen executive summary for the general fund operating revenue and really just preliminary estimates on on the expense side because nobody has submitted any formal budget requests what the way i'll walk you through this is what this is this is summarizing on the know what's projected to change in terms of revenue from this year to next them below that we have our fixed costs was traditionally here in foxborough we we pay those bills first so to speak it's our insurance is our debt driven mostly by assumed health insurance and pension assessment increases and i'll speak about those in a minute so therefore that is projected to leave us a net increase available for operating budgets about one point nine seven million and the preliminary budget estimates  but there's no these are just really just placeholders so nobody should put a lot of stock in them this is not the school's number and it's not the miss one number either randy seasoning you and bill prefer us to whole questions or you want to just go along the way or a long ways so i just as we get first first glimpse of preliminary numbers i know that the town is always appreciative of the selectmen in the committee being sensitive and conservative to our the way we budget with your guidance and bills gu cues comment on those percentages are these percentage increases in terms of revenue and fixed cost of these you know ballpark there's nothing crazy different here these are these are pretty pretty average i'm a little  unhappy with the fixed cost increase because we just want through a cycle it's projected to be a five point four percent increase was when you know revenue and projected increase about four point six percent expenses are matched you know with that net net with our really driven by the fact that we've we've made so many changes many policy decisions that the board has made the partnership that we've had with the out of the school administration on on a new health insurance agreements and i'll just call for what it is and cautio n and we've we've had the benefit of that for the last last three years and or at the end of that at that this point has been a lot of change absorbed by employees and retirees at this point that's not to say there there isn't some more opportunities to con but at this point i think we've sort of water in doubt not totally and so i'm expecting that the health expense trend natural trend you know may start to kick in and we may instead of looking at flat insurance premiums or declining or modestly increasing we may be looking at something like seven and a half percent or something like that which is an estimate and any point they get shaved off of that is worth about sixty thousand so that's a big number see if they're about four hundred  three thousand assume you know an increase for that that's you know for the town of foxborough that's that's a big number out of you know what's available and then the other piece is it is pension that's driving that fixed cost percentage i'm estimating about a two hundred ninety one thousand dollars increase in the pension assessment and that's from norfolk county pension which covers about an equal amount of employees in the minuscule side and and on the school side it's the non you know teachers our retirement you know the state as you know picks up the the mass most teachers retirement share of the town share for that but the reason for the increase that i'm projecting here but it was a very substantial increases past year it was the about four hundred sixty thousand is that the no for county retirement board is continues to pursue a very aggressive funding schedule and it's only there current plan and it may change you know in the near term but they haven't released any new plans yet the current plan is to continue to become even more aggressive but a fine point on that this year  are funding and as is every other town that's participating nineteen point seven percent of salary so ninety percent of eligible salary you know for these group of pensioners that they would go for county either accruing their in fiscal nineteen or it starts to come down so it's a very aggressive schedule by four county and my personal opinion and i'm just going to speak for myself that there is little bit too aggressive and  certainly would encourage bossy makers to reach out to the board over go for county in and i'll just break it down to real simple terms in two thousand and four two thousand and eight or in fiscal two funding date out to twenty forty based on a lot of you know rational thinking and thought process and into it actually it's the actuary from norfolk county mr dan sherman who was one of the thought leaders with the legislature and help them architect that to push any forty but rather than do that nor for county actually pulled the funding schedule in four years to twenty twenty two which caused a big spike in in our assessments and everybody's asking for the no four county which is tends to be in my perspective their pattern to be a little bit too aggressive in the funding so it's currently been brought back to twenty thirty one but not with the state is at this point in time so there's an that's that's a conservative estimate but really a middle of the road realistic estimate we won't get the where with maya as you know which is a group of about one hundred fifty one towns and typically they'll release their range of percentage a premium changes to the number of communities a range at the m m a meeting in january and a range not necessarily your percentage increase but because we have a different cycle we renew september one as opposed to july one you know our numbers typically comes in a couple months after that but we still look for guy at least we have a range that we know or within at that point in their there is worth about sixty thousand so what percent is that this represents seven and a half percent which we've been enjoying zeroes are relatively close to zero is because of all the changes that we've made and that in at the board has supported as well so it's a it's a more traditional increase we've had double digit increases prior to starting on this plan to you know attack the rising cost of health insurance and you'll see that number  talk to us because if you think about that from a two year perspective here we just put on the table most eight hundred thousand dollars of increased pension costs recurring recurring and if the if we don't get them to ease off on it like the state has this is going to chew us up worse than the potentially health insurance has exacted going through the process so i think they really need to come in and defend the stance they're taking and there's no really no harm or fall if they push this the schedule out a little bit  to make it so that other communities i can't believe would be the only ones thinking about this but i really think that's that's the bigger question here and there's control over that so we have a position as to what we've accomplished but it will be twenty thirty what you know what is a reasonable position and i'm not aware that they talk of that back but even if you think about even a couple years would be significantly i mean could mean almost no increase next year the a reduction in your in the funding that you but certainly could slow the clock so just to capture on bill suggestion lorraine would it make sense perhaps for you to reach out and for us to come to one of your meetings invite them to what i would  it is seen that as well exactly and that's the that's the balancing act which you know certainly i don't think this group here is is kick the can down the road kind of group certainly our what we've been doing with is not that however with the extreme shifts that happened in the market have accelerated and so therefore increased dramatically pension the pension assessment going back five years ago and still at that run rate and then higher than than the state the last several years it a minimum but it requires some explanation as to why we need to be as aggressive but did not use for the operating budgets however we did use them for one time expenses like the capital budget putting into stabilization and things like that and one of the goals that we have been working on in and doing that was to cry to try to create some room within the operating budget to fund the town hall project without a debt exclusion to squeeze that debt service into the operating budget without it being such a tight fit and so that was one of the motivations to try to create that room that room is still there and as we get down to local receipts i explain where we're looking to create it again and then estimate that i worked on with the building commissioner in the chief assessor they're the ones who are our closest to the activity in town and the timing of things some of it's you know art and science because you never know when the permits going to you know going to get hold of the archives is going to get permits finally got to be given all of the growth captured but they have an incredible track right just this past year we were looking for it was eight hundred two thousand in growth which is a big number for us in  fifteen and it turns out it's eight hundred thirty eight thousand preliminarily certified to the klein is certified this month so that and they've done really well with the big numbers as well in the past we've had big development so they've got a good track record so i have confidence every year we assume our budget which is about two hundred thirteen thousand and then we assume a two hundred fifty thousand dollar deficit and so last year we spent three hundred seventy two thousand so i guess i'm going with the fifty and we'll see what the weather brings and we'll just state at this point in time i'm assuming in essence relatively flat state aid or that you know i have a detail break out in that other document that that you have a chair will be going over what you have as a reference or break it up by line and w adjust this when the new governor releases their budget proposal and they actually get an extra couple of weeks the new governor so we probably won't see this number until early mid february not late january like we'd like you usually do so i mean it's an adjustment you make there proposing that we increase our use of local receipts by about six hundred fifty four thousand russians while still talk our getting on an increased free cash recharge one million nine hundred fifty thousand what is that mean so as i think most of you know a bit of all the budget process know that you know we don't budget the town doesn't budget all of its local receipts every year it budgets in such a way in order to regenerate  free cash so we look for local receipts to come in higher than what we budgets are going to spend every penny because we actually need that recharge in the next year to fund the operating budget and the capital budget we typically rely on about two million dollars if you cash every year which we've generated and in the prior year good news is right now we're sitting we just had our spreecast certified that just under five point two million which means we roll forward three point two million we generated the two million would have been another two point three but the state was a late payer on some things and so they won't give us credit for things that we have a deficit the account waiting for the states like three hundred thousand who have been even higher so sort where we typically target a recharge or an under budgeting if you will of local receipts by a million and a half and five hundred thousand comes in from other areas on the spend on budgets balance sheet changes etc this is this is the area to create the cushion in f y sixteen in order to begin to pay the debt service assume debt service including townhall in f y seventeen and eighteen so what i've done is are recommending we target a recharge of a million one hundred fifty thousand so to preserve one hundred fifty thousand but it still results in a significant increase in the use of local receipts about eight point seven percent based on current estimates and that's being driven by a few things and actually very fortunate we've we've have some very positive trends in local receipts in four major areas motor vehicle excise tax it has been on a five year climb it's been sustained i'm assuming modest we hit the bottom line so most people excise tax the hotel motel excise tax has been increasing nicely for us as well again on an upward trend for the last five years as you know we increase that back several years ago the meals tax is also continued on an upward trend and not rising as fast but it's already in a you know a new big new number you know relatively new number for us you know between eight nine hundred thousand again we had about one hundred thousand in unsettled contracts so it's a little distorted so it's really only one hundred eighty seven thousand dollars increase you know these are one of the areas where you can move up and down over the years to balance the budget to put it in perspective when times are tough we might put two million of free cash into the operating budget and then as times improve you know we'll talk a lot back and try to get it back to about a million which is about where we were so we're still in very good shape there  hundred thousand dollar increase in ambulance receipts towards the operating budget this program run by the fire department is an incredible success story i think we talked about this before they really self funding everything their self funding all their capital  assuming that they'll be twenty thousand dollars in private funding for the library somebody's hours trial that they're doing this year the beyond books capital fund generously funded by the sunday i was program this year privately  because of the trial and the commitment was that in the trial year he would be on them but if it succeeded you know that would be put back into the budget so that's the other change that we already we already talked about the other major changes top revenue on the bottom and in summary f y fifteen and sixteen reflects balance budgets are the forecast for fiscal seventeen of eighteen if we're talking about that  include assumed included death again for the town hall and that's projected to add an estimated five hundred sixty eight thousand and five hundred fifty six thousand in debt service respectively so and as you can see the deficit here these are projected deficits nationally we will go to town meeting with the with objective deficit but this is where it looks at this point one hundred forty one thousand and seventeen nine hundred sixty five thousand and eighteen i believe those are manageable numbers because there are many moving parts certainly at the end of the day this group around this table has the as the authority to you know to ensure that we will wind up with a with a balanced budget so that doesn't i'm not concerned about that because there are areas for operating budgets that's why eighteen all things being equal you know there are other revenue opportunities out there that you know haven't been factored into this a major developments that may happen that are not part of this plane yet because they're just too far off would be that would not be the right approach here we need to set this up for success and that's usually the way it's the way it comes in but we did see some things happen before we can send these revenue estimates up like let's see the governor's new budget for  you know for next year and see if we're on a different trajectory and see some other major development in the town of at that in let's see if the solar project come to fruition and you know dropped a big number out of our operating expenses so there are opportunities  level is obviously we have the operating budgets and we have capital budgets so what i've just done here is i've listed in summarize it a high level of three pages of the latest five year capital plan and put it into a major category henri's and laid that out as well for the next four years i conclude in this year so you can see you know the relative amounts of the dollars and the fact that at that's i'm not necessarily advocating here for that level of use of free cash for all of these capital needs to c a p committee does a great job reviewing what's what's a critical priority what's important priority and what could be deferred you know it especially in the next two years it'll be important probably not to you know eat in as deeply into our free cash reserves as i'm showing here million nine a million  eight because the the better free cash reserve number that we have in the balance sheet probably that it will do in the bond markets with our next the next offering but we certainly have the resources on the capital side to you know to it to address   in the major building renovation line is obviously the assumed amount of funding for the town hall project the other amounts in there assume the the estimated  numbers for the and these abilities studies and the assumption here is that you know when the next one of those projects goes forward and you know we suspect it will some point that that wouldn't have  a dampening effect on on the outlook because the assumption would be is that that would be in exclude that prog sectors like all the school projects have so it would have its own dedicated funding source i don't think we could put two building projects a little over a million dollars of that was done within the budget process too so that's happening right because of a technicality right so let's try to get it i did have your piece of it if you can fit a piece in it yeah i appreciate and i'm not surprised but i appreciate that you include some idea of the borough i'm a tailor down the road we don't know when we don't we haven't talked at this table you know recently about any pending immediacy to those projects and yet we know they're out there at some point so i appreciate that you've got them you know in the thought process and no one surprised when we get to that point so we know it we know it's coming it's just a matter of when what we claim we want the plan for those things are made i can tell you just from the conversations we've had just just this point obviously you know we're going to be able to talk about that i just figure out how to  i'm obviously the number is easy because it stays the same but what services that we could look at that you would cut to make it level budget i mean if it did wouldn't that would be for me to say i mean those are policy decision sions that would be between town manager and your board and the superintendent and the school committee but you can see what the number is that would be talking about here if we're looking to expand the total expense side including quote testing well i think it's there's where the dialogue there look back a few years ago and it it's disappeared off of and i don't know if it was ever on the projected milestone counter but i want to point the selectmen had met with the advisory committee and  we talked about that it was an open forum you know maybe a couple handful of people it was on a saturday you know a nice discussion with the school committee for the i know you have your thoughts on it the selectmen of the advisory of the finance committee  maybe the c h p committee because some of the things we're hearing you know bringing in capital improvement thought process into one place for all of the town offices you know recreation police fire school  know if you look at the c i p the five year projection that was in on there before ok at some level if you look at what's on the c i p thought process in the past it's heavy on school fire police but not so much in the town so if we put that on there all these little moving pieces would be nice to have a dialogue rather than we may end up at the same place as his level service if you if you look at page eight here the other  p committee meets and reviews in paradise every year so it's a moving target but i think that the school number is been relatively stable and it's really the building costs that ultimately drive the big fluctuations you know discussion i think for many reasons but just to dismiss the discussion of what would it take to have level budget and i know that it could be you know substantial cuts but i don't want to be just so dismissive that we don't have that dialogue and i i think there is a benefit to having the advisory the finance committee weigh in on at the school committee so collectively we have some strength in a direction rather than saying this is what we've done in and i'm pointing to you and i know you don't make the relatively easy it's how do you get to the numbers a real is the real challenge and i think that's where you could spend days or weeks talking about that what that means but it's good to have a conversation what the number is so people understand what it means and policymakers that two boards you know sitting around the state want to know there's some other policy making boards that it you know not not represented here and why every trustees are you know planning board but it's from my perspective it's these two boards who recommend service levels and if that's something you know if the service levels are that these two boards want to recommend is dramatically lower than what we have here than that conversation you know for these board stands and you know my two cents about the advisory committee is that at their record there they're making a vote on what what the policy makers are recommending so i don't know that i would include them but  understand the question it's just could just have a dialogue because it's you know what that means because it because if you don't know what the number is you can't have it you can't understand you know what the conversation was while raising taxes because there's a two point seven million dollars difference in the what that number is and that's why we're raising the two and a half percent in taxes each year and it represents the following issues that if we if we didn't have that this is what would happen so it's sound so bad two point seven by itself songs with a hack are we going to find that money or that when you start to start to break it down i mean there is the reality is is that the vast majority overwhelming majority of the projected increase in spend is contractual so you know contractual salaries so because of that and the natural increases and other cause other expenses i believe to to have that theoretical discussion you are talking about service cuts and you know cutting back in certain areas perhaps saying that's right or wrong i'm just i think that's the practical reality of it i think that randi was in it like in two thousand and one where there there was that huge drop in  that two thousand and three two thousand and four thousand young yeah and then you we actually ended up having to cut like a twenty five position get it several positions got on school side on the municipal side and then and it took several years you know to kind of go back to that effect if i could add it in i think it's it is a good exercise to do once in a while but having done life the reality is a sixty million dollars budget about twenty three million dollars of that is fixed do your expenses i mean in the buildings you know the health insurance and stuff health insurance of the one of the few things that could fluctuate minor when you reduce staffing obviously you reduce health insurance just to a small degree ople say we're up is that services that service pension will all stay where they are so the only the only outcome that would ever be in that exercise is the number of staff that you're going to cut to drop back down to sixty percent of the the doc total dollars is actually salary and that you've got i'm not disagreeing it's a good i've also been doing budgets on the private side and if i had that mentality on the private side would be out of business so it is not we're not going back in the numbers in financial healthy discussion oh yeah i like your business i like your some type of a dialogue rather than saying well it's all contractual if it was contractual three or four years ago we wouldn't have adjusted the health insurance that we did and we wouldn't have taken the money and put it because it's never been done before or not so you see where i'm getting at but absolutely so every one of these the approach that we have and the feedback we get is that people are are pleased with the balance right now but i think we would be doing our jobs as either bored if we didn't ask the question so i mean i think the last twenty minute discussion is valuable personally i would want to see us put a lot of time into exploring both options i think that be a fair amount of unnecessary time that isn't likely in light of what brandy's presented as an outlook but does it merit potentially some further thought i i mean i think you economically are compelling and this a problem to be solved in the town and i'm i'm just not hearing that right now so i mean i think randi does a really good job in my experience having been here the last seven years and participating in the budget forecasts that the townsite does your particular he always forecast conservatively and it makes it easy for us to live within that because we know it's a conservative estimate so we know we're going to be in the ballpark without getting into too much trouble and it  hasn't gone wrong yet so i think that that that i don't hear a compelling reason for not going for with a level service but in providing what we already do with given that we are conservative we do look at every line item in really try to decide if we need that or not and we have been known to not increase some line items if we feel we can make do in some areas so i'm not hearing the compelling reason for us deciding to what they're for but i think the point is that it is a board decision if that's something you wanted to engage in that would be fine and if i was sitting in your position representing the school and the students i would actually say the same thing from my position taking a perspective looking at that plus the rest of the town looking at the taxes looking at the services for the whole town could we do so without some other stuff irrespective of the school and and what your purview is maybe we could you know maybe maybe you know we looked at the urging i thought that was successful we saved a lot of money but we wouldn't have done that unless someone said let's try something different so you know i think ok so i was going to add to my no i think we've had this conversation couple years ago  i think one of the ingredients at least that we're discussing here that is ultimately going to have the same sort of effect is my attempting to put all the debt service for the town hall within the levy limit i mean think i think a manageable pressure but it definitely will be a pressure that we will be putting you know on ourselves and we have been doing it as i said over the last three years we've had between four or five hundred thousand which we normally would have committed to the process for operating we didn't get trying to engineer this and then this is what we were i'm recommending doing the same thing here by raising the target for free cash recharge it all over receipts by four fifty thousand right there so there is downward pressure being being brought to bear and i think our free cash balance reflects that as well their reserves are you know back at you know close to all time highs again i think if i could just follow up meeting last week that the the payment plan if you will for the town hall already puts a similar type of pressure on the school budget the way you're talking from what you're talking about and we're on board with that we've had lots of conversations about it we certainly you know are going to cooperate relationship with the towns and i think we've accepted that downward pressure for the general good of the now but it's already asking something on the school side that is is very similar to what you're suggesting the discussion be and i want you know we already know that and we're already on board with that so i just want to make sure people understand that that's already a pressure on the school budget so jim made a comment about the d p w innovation should we use that as a segue to maybe talk about joint maintenance perfect thank you randy for the overview know and it is as a little bit of a background check on this trip so you realize this is obviously not something we're just dreaming up right now trying to figure out how to put in place for about the last year i've been using the operations manager for the school department as well as some of the media staff to work within a number of the time facilities they have been obviously at the public safety been at the library and learned every operation within that library during the time frame you know they've three but they gave me a feel for how much you know what the effort needs to be when you really do this right and i think the thing to point the bill may which is is really the real sounding board here is that the schools for years now i've had a good plan and when we did have those cutbacks that's one of the areas we did cut back and that was our custodial inmate and staff back then it took years to get that back in place but we also had a downturn in our building so it was it was very obvious just before michael o'leary came on with the conditions of the schools were in and so that was probably seven eight years ago plus not ten probably ten years that he was here so right about that time i went out and i we started we brought it back up and you know i think the the effort that really needs to go in is a to all the buildings it's not something you and as you can tell when you walk around these buildings that we're looking at everything every day so that means you have to have two things that you're really into willing to support and this is sometimes hard really in especially in economic downturns and that is maintenance doesn't go away so you have to be able to keep the budget against me and intact if you look at that is always the first thing you're going to pull this is never going to work anyway doesn't matter how much you put out it because in those downturn years the buildings will go down quickly and to bring back russia a lot more so that's just you know kind of a prelude to where we're going with this with the schools that had one facilities manager who is basically responsible for not only of maintenance within the facilities one that for the most part probably ninety percent of the time is felt it's not on our athletic side and that is because of all the fields that we manage and all the inside things all of the set up and break down and all that on a daily basis all year round except for during the you look at square footage but again you can you can tell that they've done a good job within this within the facilities you know floors are clean on a regular basis you know everything lights and they're taking care on a daily basis so you know we know what the mix basically needs to be based on square footage and  seems to be working fairly well again if you look back when this when the last real recession thing in the two thousand and three and four stage we lost a few custodians and it was very apparent within the middle school and high school especially which is the highest traffic you're the i'm sorry will be fifty five members of the under fourteen right now the council on aging is about forty three hundred recreation has a number of facilities obviously they have the one here on south street and they have a number of who are on mill street with the two buildings that they read  use as well as a number of these small they call cottages but they're the really glorified sheds i guess still have to be maintained memorial hall just under two thousand square feet so you have about ninety seven thousand and th excludes the d p w and water department facilities and the only reason we're schooling those at this point is for the most part they do manage their own facilities with their own staff they obviously have you know people that have those types of skills within them and you couldn't get if we didn't do the work so yes that would be also in the group of buildings but what makes this a little bit more challenging is you can see you have more building facilities in different locations maybe not the square footage but it's it's much spread out there's actually even another building that we're kind of drawing with and because no one really seems to know who has control over it and that's the press school and that's also another problem that we're going to need to address because it's it's really in tough shape so but you know at this point those that would be to you know the need to hire someone going to fix something that they don't see the object or you know like i said if it was a broken stairway or door yes they could go and fix that that would be issues and so you know again you're adding all about one hundred thousand square feet to this mix to go forward with what we're proposing is that in order to do this and this would be following the same model that we founded with the i q department a few years ago and that basically was to consolidate one position to that on the person to go out and service and fix p c the round it was the town network issues that whole thing and that worked that model actually has worked very well force over the over the last seven years or five maybe ago so i think i think we know the model works so what we're saying is basically the same model we would we would basically give the operations manager a little bit of assistance you know financially for the amount of work we're asking to take and we would give  work and get more out of him what i've also kind of seen since i've been here and i think tony you saw and i share the same thing is it's nice when you can have two two man teams because a lot of times you're sending somebody out  work it might be you know other things that you really want from a safety point of view picking and lifting things that type of thing you don't want to be some are going to just think you got to do the job and end up you know our workers comp so you know my thing would be to create two two man teams that different than the i t side but because we had something in house already on the i t side is basically to create or go out and purchase school dude or similar software package that the name is misleading cafeteria i have a sink that's leaking over a town hall i have the ball a lot they all come in automatically to the operations manager who basically can then assign them out and it's a whole tracking system so that the beauty of this type of system and we would definitely have to do this now with  going up in a building or there's constantly a problem with something in one building and in the track we're going to create for you pretty quickly says ok we've got to address this on a grander scale to get rid of that item to make sure it doesn't just keep coming back to us and costing us money because obviously every time we send somebody out to do work you know that's a dollar factor to us so so we would recommend doing that now i'm actually i just finished getting quotes out of stuff and i'm going to try one more time to go through my own as part of their rebate or  basically the way we did the i decided same way we would do this is the staff is actually hired and part of the fog the high school or the school of art and staffing but what we do is we journal entry through to the town budget the allocated cost r it's really important that you don't use it and it interferes with an asset management tool so you can identify expected useful life for many years for life and any time the replacement is done for a major component that will extend remaining useful off basically from from scratch now's the time to implement that rather than playing catch up with the system that you have really had in place real you know this this is a number of models one of the models that i'm recommending would purchase up front is called pm direct and pm direct obviously is preventive maintenance direct but nor to have that you have to build all of your quitman requirements throughout the district which is in itself very time consuming because you have to go through every building and and recognise every air handler every heating system every you know major component that way but again to your point then you what you've done is you've gone through it who's the manufacturer what's the you know what was the date of purchase what's the model number what are they so when something goes wrong with that you also have all that information right from your right and then back out to the field to find  reasons obviously i have to do my reporting to the state school expenses which are very separate from what what really does actually really support some of mine by giving me the numbers at the townsite is actually doing on our behalf that i have to include but because of the way the state laws are written our numbers are very different there are certain things that the rate i get you don't get so we have to keep our financial very separate in this whole process and it's the only one really way that this it will work very similar to what we're doing with id so again no difference there what we're saying is on from the from the payroll side of it if you will there would be the three pieces that we talked about in stipends and the maintenance staff in the actual repair meet and supply lines there would be a mirrored budget on the town side as to what there is on the school side not dollar wise but near is farthest types of lines so contracted services as an example you all know we go out to big once a year for our electoral services our elevator services plumbing services all that we do that wants it once a year to have that but so obviously when i'm calling in for a major heating thing i have a vendor i can always already go to because we've got through that process but i have a line item that i can charge it in school budget similarly we have one on the t if it's a matter of one of my guys going to replace a belt place a motor that that's one thing but when you get into the bigger things you're not going to have that level of staff onboard it nor do you want to pay to have that level staff sitting there all day because that really does not cost effective pleasure just your bil hundred years old constantly and thank god the town is really supportive you know upgrading our facilities to good facilities that are easy to maintain so we would have you know he ran he would have to build up a budget in part of that would be also consolidation we don't have on the school side a budget by school building for you know gas or utilities we don't have a one by school even though we track everything that way we know obviously where the cross are but if i'm doing the same grampa contracted services we have a single contractor services line depending on where the needs are in the district during the year is where that money is spent so one year may be very heavy at the taylor school because we ran into a huge border problem we have to read address that we just had one of the borough where we lost costs almost ten thousand dollars well if i had only allocated x amount of dollars to burn x amount to taylor next month i would not be able to handle that was so we lump it all in and then we basically deal with the issues as they come and kind of priorities  might run to something at town hall next year you might run into something you know that are a little bit larger items and you normally would do but you have the flexibility to work leading out into the individual budgets everybody thinks they have something to grab that really isn't what that's what this was before it's  budget one ninety two i mean a simple building it's the town hall building budget we also have on the joint public safety building budget so for starters what we're intending to do is put those two together and then take all of the other items that are listed here lector it natural gas contract services etc from all of the other municipal budgets and extract them and put them into the same budget so we have the same same model so that will be a  change this year for our budgeting but you know we will work closely with the department heads to make sure that we bisect these lines it needs to be looked into because maybe they've contracted services isn't just about the building it's century which is where it should be an by opinion is that we hire the palm heads too to run operations we don't have them to run the buildings they really should be in the business because a lot of them are experts we need to have people that really understand those costs and so that so we can actually be flexible in th we just had to cancel that was what exactly what we did you know i will tell you that the true test of that was when they were sitting in my office and the and my radio to my my my heating system failed in my office but the phone call the director of facilities he it's actually worked already as i said on the smaller scale that we've tried just to get a feel for how this would work again we have all those contracts are in place we have all these vendors were already used and i'll be honest with you we were very fortunate with getting t his his you know pocket full of vendors as i'd like to look at is just incredible some of the guys he's pulled out there in the pricing that they've given us to do excellent work you know it is good but now it's like if you would leverage that same group of vendors i mean you  something so and again it's not somebody trying to find or figure it out it's somebody's story dealing with them and on the other five hundred forty thousand i think it's safe to say the townsite departments are to have a relationship with tony because he's going all they have to do all this stuff right now and i think bill's earlier point this is going to more formalized an informal let me turn that we've had that actually has worked twice well and that we all support but if it does formalize it instead of just leaving it to everyone's goodwill and question and that is because all of your built the only time different so for us very simple and i think staff members that are out doing five or twenty thousand square feet they all have set duties and know exactly what they're doing and we know exactly what they're supposed to be  your side you've got like in one instance you have somebody who is outsourcing it another is it you have somebody that's inside someplace you have some it's temporary you know you you or i mean part time so you've got like a hodgepodge of of of solutions to a problem which may not be your best thing you also have the same problem we have and that is during snowstorms you need to have sidewalks that are clear and safe so having staff on board for us is streaming important now the reason our model works is our staff knows in the contract that got public buildings need to be open and when you go to outside sources like one has done having some to come and actually shovel the sidewalk or move snow if it's not going to be as easy so i think what you know we've talked about and this is one thing that we haven't gone far enough to really understand i think if it ends up being in house which would be my suggestion that you know again the operations manager would be the one who would be over that as far as the the management and hiring of staff and also keeping him involved with the training side but it would be a totally different group than the microscope is just like i mean it's not like i mean it's i mean it's going to be one group this will be two different groups because they have to go between buildings so you basically want to create some sort of a team process maybe a two or three person unit that basically has a van and vehicles that can move around and they could go from building to building to building and deal with it and that could give you a very clean approach were right now they're all just trying to muddle through and get through a process the the other side of having a custodial staff that way again is you'd have those three when you need them to go around to sidewalks as well as a group i don't know if it's three i don't know if it's two and if it's four i don't know what the the amount the townsite is paying at we need to kind of pull all that in and then you need to go by hand because now you've got the library trustees who have certain say over their buildings and things like that's going to have to is going to be a little bit of talk here i'm going to say go out on a limb here i think th library trustees will buy into the main is thing because they've already we've been doing a former ready for a year and i think they need it jerry can be the first one to tell you he doesn't like it he loves to build a plane look at the that he thinks that thing on a computer but when it goes bad it goes better he doesn't want to be  all those buildings i don't personally feel that but i don't see the number so i don't know i mean the first step and this will obviously evolve as we socialize as we are and it is to just like a name it's paul the name is because expenses into this one department is to pull custodial staffing dollars and also put those into the to the same budget as well that's not changing how the service is delivered but at least at that aggregates all the dollars that are available makes decision making easier but what's really important to this discussion is that right now there are individual custodians showing up doing their work but they're not getting receiving any consistent direction for your program to you know clean up a building you can run is one want to so you could put three there for exactly the reason that model works as it is if you think about it it's the public version of a private business who matches exactly what if you exactly what they do you have a very good friend that runs a very large outside sourcing things and been doing a lot of community but the biggest problem those communities are facing is that when they are the three keep people come into the building and they're done in two hours and  you have a problem there i think you take it all so and he's the first one to admit that but a lot of communities think that they're saving money on it and yes they hard to a degree i think this goes back to the whole cost concept thing if you looking for the cheapest dollars that's the potential way to do it if you're looking for a reason thing where you can control the entire environment and make sure everything stays to a certain point then that doesn't always work for you with your sources and i think that you know we're all familiar with outsourcing in a million different ways whether it's the phone call you take from a from another country or whatever it doesn't always do the thing that you want to do best and i think so again once we know what the costs are and we know what the programs you want to be i think bill is putting  between you do that these stores can last forever and we don't do that and you get what we've had some of the older buildings on the downside and it's very board you do it right we have we have our suppliers come in and train or our staff we have meetings for that that they'll come in it'll show me how to do the different stripping techniques the different equipment we can buy form to use to write the lifting things we obviously bring my engine do you know safety stuff because one of the biggest issues that you face with this level staffing is backs  you know strains and pulls and stuff like that so you have to teach them yet you that regularly so we do do that and i think again whoever was in on the towns i would just be included in those type of programs to make sure that we kept everybody up to the same level and and obviously were successful with already started working maintenance hopefully in the southern area and it's obviously incredibly efficient for the department heads that are trying to manage these buildings and it's in the best interest tax for the taxpayers  you didn't need the selectmen to consider any action tonight just take the sundered buys from you know this to be well i guess the thing that that i'm not sure the process but i think it's the both boards would we never did a formal agreement under the i t side it's wor different manner now so if the c h p is voting on this in may is there an opportunity to get this done well before that to adjust the c h p thought process because if you look at the c h p and get roger hill you've got you know the both of is it think  and problem solving troubleshooting me that's correct but that's what shows that's what the c h p is all about right the budget items are those maintenance items i can address that because i feel i know that i would say that probably your fiscal seventeen budget will be will be more reflective of that approach because sixteen we need to put the program in place for us and then we need to have to go through an evaluation of all of facilities and i mean obviously town halls a different issue we're going to deal with that hopefully at on the seventeenth but do adopt a a program or system that basically can start to categorize everything for about five years ago the school that had a group come in and actually do an assessment on all five buildings and that's really what we've been the way it was built and the equipment stuff is slightly worse than taylor so we've been using that as a priority in our map as to how we're moving forward and everything's been kind of sitting and that you know when you come in and you do this analysis to today's point will know the age of every roof that's out there will have the age of every piece of equipment that's out there will have you know i actually in the schools i have this i have gone back about twelve years and i've taken every major project that we've done in any single building and i've got a who did and when they were done what the cost was with that because that starts to put into a priority you'll know when pavements going to start to go you know when you know he other issues are going to start to show up and we would do the same thing obviously for the whole town sites and now you're really looking at a master program for all buildings and all needs within those buildings so to your point of c i key thing yes we might do a consolidated thing where we want to come in and do three routes because we can get all the same time get a better price you can do it and we know they're all in the same relative timeframe to need to be done we might be looking at  know we only have one parking lot issue in the next couple years it could be a dollar one but clearly get out and see ip we do everything on a three to five year thing and see it be as it is so being able to pre scheduled that stuff out would give everybody a lot more confidence in fact if you're looking at these projects