it please the court good morning my name is paula parent of the law firm of tavenner and baron here in richmond virginia i am appearing this morning as court to sign him a kiss counsel after having started my legal career at the fourth circuit staff counsel's office it is good to be back before this court as a friend of the court it's especially good to be back as a friend of this court because i'm likely not making any friends at the court that i currently spend over ninety percent of my time practicing before specifically upon leaving the four circuits employed almost twenty five years ago i was fortunate to be able to clerk for the honorable done so tice the chief judge of the united states bankruptcy court for the eastern district going directly to the point of thirteen twenty six that does say that a chapter thirteen debtors first payment shall be made within a certain period of time or hearing i think no i don't think the hospital question ok absolutely your honor in connection with the bankruptcy code section thirteen zero seven of the bankruptcy code specifically provides that a bankruptcy case upon notice and opportunity may be dismissed but the isn't that the question because i mean if if they can and then i would imagine we would presume the validity of the rule so who is there are necessary in compatibility  well your honor if the rule is requiring that dismissal be made immediately upon certification and there is nothing more before after certification i don't believe that the local rule can be compatible with either thirteen out of seven  congress has provided some insight as to what it meant in requiring notice and a hearing and specifically one or two doesn't say that hearing is required every time it says such opportunity for a hearing as is appropriate in the particular circumstances are talking about you're going to notice or there is not know what are we what's your response me well your honor in this instance the certification was made on a friday january thirteenth tuesday the court entered the dismissal order so action by a certain period no your honor it does not and i believe that's one of the major issues that is a problem with the local rule thirty seven day as well as the practice of dismissing cases by certification be filed prior to the certification was fat and there was a notice of service yes ma'am was there it was the dead are aware that that was about to occur your honor based on the record it does not appear that the doctor was aware it appears that the  court and an opportunity for the court to have the their ability to consider that objection before deciding what to do in own the only whole matter respond then the district court may decide that summary judgment matter without calling you into the courtroom you and you see the parallel in bankruptcy been absolutely on i think it's very very someone i think  this to the side of the case but i'm interested in your answer to that what if the court said the bad the court said our local rule we know we have to have a hearing but we delegate that to the clerk of court would that be a sufficient hearing arm of the bankruptcy code i know that's not the issue in this case but i'm sorry i'm what you think hearing me now your honor because you think that hearing hearing honor i was trying to one stay true to the assignment of what i understood to be appellate argument on a meal but secondly i didn't believe that it was necessary because i think from thirteen  issues specifically under the fourteenth amendment and in connection with that as as your honor her well aware the supreme court has spoken loud and clear in connection in connection with mine and that also has the the concept of whether if there was notice with sufficient opportunity so the due process argument follows on the heels of arguments that already made in connection with thirteen zero seven and one zero five but as this court has has indicated in connection with the of certain parties and after notice rehearing or within the commas they have to be read together is in those circumstances that notice and hearing is required and if the record shows i certainly filed a motion to dismiss giving notice and hearing it never got hurt or the filing fee hasn't been completed an administrative order resent or no one has ever suggested that if the do doesn't pay a filing fee the court champ dismissed the chase and what's happened here is upon certification that they did make the first  required by thirteen twenty six the court has seen fit to my local rule to say we will dismiss those they haven't applied with the rules the chase will be dismissed and it did but what the problem that i'm having with that argument is such and day on the bankruptcy courts docket one of hamill's one hundred other cases your case will be dismissed for this reason hearing a set you know conduct yourself as you deem i think the problem and the difficulty here is that the bankruptcy didn't schedule a hearing on the motion to dismiss or february ninth to sponsors to be filed at least five days assume that the bankruptcy court was telling me that there would be as it said that there would be hearing on a motion to dismiss and that responses could be filed i would not assume that the bankruptcy court could but your question was is there an argument made that i went to the remedies yes i'm happy to address that argument question and want a bankruptcy court schedule such hearing on a motion to dismiss and allow for the filing of responses compliant with the bankruptcy code how does that not rescind her subsequent dismissal prior to the scheduled hearing that would provide notice and an opportunity to be heard inconsistent i don't believe they're mutually exclusive remedies for example my question was how does that not rinder feasts subsequent dismissal without compliance with the bankruptcy code only scheduled hearing on a motion to dismiss with responses how does that not render the subsequent order of dismissal prior to the scheduled question it's actually right and i believe his daughter had actual notice and i also believe that better by not attending the creditors meeting where those were announced there would be hearings on a motion to dismiss in a bankruptcy context gives them actual notice of what might subsequently occur in a different bankruptcy proceeding experience is the best teacher so your answer is there isn't any i believe that's notice i can't fouled a year ago suing ford motor company and you went through the process and you knew what happened and then you had you found another case against di against a ford dealer and somebody filed summary judgment you would say asking you about that it doesn't make sense that once you've had an experience in bankruptcy court then oh the rules and requirements don't apply anymore argues much of the facts of this chase series of cases with this i was simply making the point that she knew about the rule quite frankly i don't want to hear there but i don't even understand that argument we don't we don't have meetings bankruptcy judges come in here and offend their rules of all of us we look at their rules in light of the law in applications as you say in specific cases or we would i don't want to get on that point again with you but i don't want to stand where we stand up and go i'm here and i get the benefit of the application of a rule i get that benefit but if you don't like it take to do understand trying desperately to distract us from the rule that the l and only you have the responsibility to defend and uphold way the commas are placed upon request of a party in interest and after the us trustee i requested it in a separate pleading gave notice and hearing that this was just report to the court your honors question though about with different pleadings is that misleading to the debtor i do agree that's a fair point with various mailings especially what this was represent pari they can be confusing but the rules do allow for exclusive remedies on different tracks relief stays that sort of thing and it's up to the de construction is reviewed in connection with thirteen zero seven thirteen zero seven the world thirty seven date is not income forms with thirteen zero seven they can't be reconciled even if this court were to say that this was done under one o five and there's much distinction being made here about the judge did at the court that it's under one of five it's important to note that even want to go five requires notice and an opportunity that was first determined by the  first circuit and then this court in the castle the castle case that didn't specifically deal with thirteen zero seven but it dealt with seven o seven and a one hundred five in on that case the court or circuit bankruptcy judge absolutely has the authority to do it under one of five and apply seven o seven rules but in citing and the basis for that authority this court cited the case of entering a hammer in campers is a fifth circuit case and when you go to look at the fifth circuit case fifth circuit case did deal with section one zero five looking at section thirteen so you can't i don't feel like the chapter thirteen trusty athlete here can just say well judge thirteen zero seven doesn't matter notice an opportunity doesn't matter because this was done source fanti by the bankruptcy judge under one o five i first don't believe that premises accurate as your honor his point as your honor has indicated in questioning but nonetheless even if that's where we alternately got five still requires that there be notice and an opportunity to disruption of bankruptcy cases and these bankruptcy cases are regularly dismissed and we need to dismiss bankruptcy cases when people have to use the rules absolutely i don't disagree with that now any way shape or form but we must do that specific cases about the bankruptcy who absolutely are honor i know that is the best in large measure how we speak to them absolutely your honor and they are wonderful people and they are here to uphold the rules and i'm confident that they will at their local if you're on the phone to look at look at law and rules different people can do that judges and just great apparel can disagree but everybody judges understand sort of how the rules are set what we have to follow actual we're told we have to follow all the panels and the u s supreme court that's what we're told and that's what we do it don't meet with us individually and but to just have a hearing new make a determination they have been hearing we'll sit down and we look at  absolutely and i'm confident that they are offended by it they might disagree with it but they understand how this goes down but absolutely honorable i've never met a bankruptcy judge or a district court judge that likes to be overturned on appeal but nonetheless that has ever made any judge allowed to be overturned on problematic because it's in contravention of thirteen zero seven one zero five and due process and there is absolutely opportunity for this court to provide guidance to the eastern district of virginia and i'm confident that a modification will be thank you thank you very much sparing i know that your court appointed yes and we would like to express the appreciation of the court for your service that you have