pushed my name is alan armstrong i represent the tesco area airport authority and the friends have to tesco airport authority and other petitioners in this matter i want to focus my time on the salient and significant issues in this case and that is the fact that this case is governed by barn one the subject aeronautical studies conclude to propose structures would exceed the obstruction standards that's contained in title fourteen code of federal regulation fourteen c f r part seventy seven they they go on to say have or the for example if one of our air knock em out of operations per day d would be affected this would indicate regular and continuing activity that's a significant done no matter what the type of operation there's no traffic count they didn't count it in bottlenecks their sworn test my guess in a way that that they wouldn't they are that they are they were going to have to fly differently than they already have to do to get around the other turbines that's what they said jettison the record for that makes sense asking you what you said on route that's the language you emphasize now in syria if they were taking off from an airport here in washington d c every mile the air mile they fly between washington d c and the school airport would be route to that airport and so the fact that something is more north wouldn't change the fact that it's on route to that airport so i'm trying to understand how we know that these turbines are on route to the airport in a way that the existing turbines but maybe a bit more north are not they're both part of the route to the airport clearly area north and northwest between three to nine miles of the airport will be occupied by this winter of three t airport traffic pattern it is where before we get to significant i ask this this clutter i think there's there's no dispute that these turbines create clutter on the radar that's right your honor is quieter an schooled in this area can you explain to him that it isn't a physical effect and so it's just that they pick them up like they would an airplane and so it reports it onto the radar then that's right my understanding i am also not schooled in this area but my understanding is that  instrument procedure and there is an effect there but again we're looking at why flight every twenty two dollars days now for the instrument flight will suffice what we care about there it's important is saying which the tweeting the airplanes that are in the airport traffic pattern airspace that is you know a couple miles before the rim a couple miles after i decide that the airplanes can circle at the airspace there are no win airspace that's correctly being used or that we use even with this if this larger runway were ever built and if we talk about planes that are en route right these winter mines are less than there's there's no data in the records showing that there are actually airplanes flying over that area of the intervention the area you're i can see at a six hundred and it and this this point about something that is less than four hundred and ninety nine feet is and tesco let go into going to have an effect on the route airspace because of the why isn't requiring a change in altitude that is insure your five hundred feet over these wind turbines a change in altitude or route are going to be now required to fly higher than they might like you for coming in for them coming in to land at this airport the argument that the f a a should have checked this particular flight path is something that i at all or below one thousand feet which would be the only place they would have to do that but if you look at the way these regulations are back up is just medals and when you say we don't have data does that mean we looked in there zero or does that mean to go five hundred feet over these turbines we just don't know one way or the other yet of course as you want to print it out if you can see it's a six hundred there are a lot of wind turbines right here in this area this is right back and just talk about why it doesn't matter here right because the handbook at sixty eight cd that talks about andrew flights talks about obstructions that are l four hundred and ninety nine feet all of these wind turbines are less than four hundred and ninety nine feet when you're taking off from tesla you have to have it within visual flight rules like you have to be able to see the ground usually for at least a one thousand feet right which is how these things come together and six hundred and eighty three see where you should be able to fly right over the years you should be able to fly high enough to be go really is with your visual for these turbines would they or are these turbines causing them to make a change in their what and then if it does then we need to know whether there's significant volume there and that's what you told me we don't know where that number four hundred and ninety nine feet which is the point where it actually starts looking more carefully at a structure that hunts from the intersection and is visibility rules you would have to have a have to acquire the data as to how many planes were flying over there spectrum are less than four hundred and ninety nine feet is that what you're saying yeah i'm not totally sure what what he thinks that means i read it but because these are less than four hundred and ninety nine feet they're not going to present a yet not be i don't get why this is they can be within five hundred feet of a structure and a whole bunch of new structures were put up just three miles north of the airport and so that's what that's that's a data question that we don't have here i'm just asking about whether the they're required to be five hundred feet above these turbines absolutely you're i five hundred feet above i mean quare the terrans before the turbines were there they weren't required  i understand that explanation but i don't i'm just talking about a handbook here that says if there's a change to altitude that's in effect adverse effect  one thing that is a change in altitude is that you've got to be five hundred feet over any structure so when new structures are put up where there was say nothing before about a field you're going to have to change where you're flying because now you've got to be five hundred feet on top of however tall that structure is which you would have had to do before and so to know we've got an adverse effect and no weather significant i think when you know how many planes are having to do this and that's when you say we or have quit as a secular ations into the record they have put information into the record and what they have not put into the record is that people are actually flying over this area they haven't submitted any evidence from anybody using this airport say i normally fly here where these men try to going to be built at less than a one thousand feet i do it every day right because that's what we're looking at not just the occasionally enslave but as you know and because the agency had considered that data so we don't have data like that and they they put in the right the information they put in the record they don't have anybody saying that this is part of their regular flight path that they know how to play that flies over this that's all ok well thank you the case