the next case this morning is number five deaths twenty deaths there two hundred and seventy seven order of education of roxana community school district versus regional board of school trustees of madison county are going for the apology board of education of roxana community school district is robert jack staff arguing for the apple lease jayne sharon has serious catherine smith are going for the apple a regional board of school trustees of madison county is william school and each side will have fifteen minutes for their argument the  also have five minutes for rebuttal the apple e's will be splitting their time please not only the clerk is permitted to record these proceedings interest and whole child factors and only be considered by the regional or after the property owners show that there was a significant direct educational benefit for some holden to attend  on two thousand and sixteen the statute which provides regional warrants with guidance on how to approach boundary changes through detachment underwent fundamental change regional courts are not supplied with very specific guidance on how to address the various factors and most importantly regional or turn now directed to follow what specific order to make thirty terminations the only school code sections with the school district legislature wanted each one of those things individually to have to be in place you know they phrased it poorly in being in there it seems to me like the goal of this statute section was to make sure that when someone is trying to annex out of one dist school district into another the two districts are relatively the same before the school report cards come into play doesn't mean that they have to be exactly the same so if you could talk to us a little bit about the ear and what how you get around that i would appreciate i don't know really you're on her h around it i'm embracing the word damned high i don't know what else to say i actually agree that it has to be read as written and it includes a word and a legislative history suggests that they want the school districts to be similar before you consider the school report cards and the legislature has said you make you shall consider the school report cards the operative word i believe has only half right and then you go through the checklist only if there is no more than a three percent difference in the minority out there there's in this case there's more than three percent in the minority there's more than three percent millo income but there is less than three percent in english learners so how and how if you're embracing that and suggesting that all three things need to be three has to be in place you have to be three percent or lower in minority you must be three percent or lower in the winter and that's consistent with the legislative and the school districts be similar so in our situation whether there is no more than a three percent difference in the minority populations you could stop right there because you have to have three percent or less in all three in order for the legislature consider a school district similar in order for the regional board to utilize the school report cards so ironically ironically the regional board an initially agree with for the board members if you look at the agenda and we discussed this in orientation the statute was amended a few years ago to indicate that we could not use school report cards yes there was more than three percent  cards in so much because they show the difference between the two but on the face of all it does a stamp was between the two districts is more than three percent and so on that's the reason why we mark them as an exhibit so the record is clear that we will not be considering those because of the three percent difference which is so on the report cards so exhibit some will be admitted for that during executive session while in deliberation the statute does not apply since there was not a three percent difference and all three categories must be rejected our threshold argument is clear and simple if you is there any evidence that major outside of what was in the school report cards that was presented by the houses here no your honor it is our position that clearly the evidence that was provided by the that personal preference is insufficient or a detachment the has presented basically two witnesses themselves their testimony during really track closely to the arguments raised as th was roxanna through its superintendent an assistant superintendent that didn't talk about the educational programs curricular school facilities and now and which actually supported roxanna schools so it is our position that the plaintiffs he's never provided any relevant evidence regarding educational programs curricular school facilities or technology to carry their burden of proof to show that there would be a significant direct educational benefit to hold an average of all schools parent roxanna schools and again under the current version of the statute regional boards are not directed follow very specific order to make them do germination under seventy six internments there would be a significant direct educational benefit to the petitioners children if the change in boundaries were allowed prior to this change and while regional court simultaneously waited several for them to determine whether or not to more law does not allow the regional war to school report cards unless the minority low income and english partner populations or some are that he has no more than a three percent it's clearly evident that the remaining evidence does not support my experience was not entirely unique but it is somewhat ok and is that there's we should we should in any way to get into both of the districts when the when admissibility of the school report cards again i believe that mr jackson accurately recorded what's transcript said and what was what my statements at the beginning of the board hearing when we addressed our saying his objection to the admissibility of the school report cards however i need to point out i am the attorney for the school for the original board of school trustees exhibits and accept them or reject them as they deem appropriate according to a majority vote of the of the reason ward so i believe his reliance roxana's reliance on my statements is entirely meant misplaced in his truly a red herring clearly before we went the board went into executive session the record clearly reflects that i made the statement to the board that this was a close call requires that the for that they are only excluded if all three of the conditions are met that is more than three percent of minority low income and  any statute that lists a series of conditions that the legislature intended that all three of the conditions all of the conditions be met before interpretation of the use of and here and it requires before that statute is that will that all three of those conditions are met clearly the school report cards show that only two of the three conditions are met and that there was not a three percent difference in the status of the english learners between the districts and therefore the school report cards could be admitted and considered by the board i want to point i believe that are not acceptable and in accordance with what the supreme court has laid down and it really is as as i think was pointed out under questioning  admitted those school report cards again why are the school report cards important here because they do provide a factual basis for the bo course the school report cards show away the significant difference in dating lease language arts the math proficiency in the graduation rates as cited in my brief and if you review the school report thirty you can see that senator review here is is clear it's not that the justices or the court would come to a different conclusion if they were reviewing this matter a new do you know that's not the standard the standard here is whether or not these differences support are sufficient to support the man if this weight of the evidence standard the board's determination whether or not once these school report cards were admitted whether or not they support the board's determination to resist even if again educational benefit that's a different standard then that comes into play at that point in time and that's that's the manifest way to the evidence then it's our position that that those three metrics do support the birds determination on an issue considered the way they were that the community of interest and whole trial factors do you not come into play because st we have to determine if we determine that the school report cards were the only basis for suggesting or finding that there was a significant direct educational benefit for the hassy child if that were the only thing i'm not suggesting that is but if that were the only since i'm cutting into your house and bank you yeah i believe a smith would be more familiar with with with that i believe that evidence is is not just limited to the community of interest in and counsellors may please the court my name is kathy smith and i'm here on behalf of jay and sharon has the the petitioner's jane and sharon are the parents of an eleven year old boy named holden has he's now in the  typical time when they're entering junior high and that's when the boys and the students get more involved in all of the extracurricular activities and sports that the school that they found out that their house actually sits in roxanna they own two pieces of property adjacent to each other and their house it's on the piece that's in the right thing in a school district and the adjoining lot next to them that they own is in the edwardsville school district so the testimony at the regional court hearing that was presented by jay and sharon has the show that they're very active  parents very active in the edwardsville community they participate in all of their son's activities and he's obviously a very active participating in soccer and baseball and basketball and j  issue of the school report cards and there's a statute that passed said that the regional boards can't consider the school report cards unless there's a direct educational benefit that was found land alternative the regional board found in the alternative that they would have made the same decision if they wouldn't have considered the school report cards so it's based on what based on the issue of you know holden's involved in the community community of interest there's a direct educational benefit on that student that had i known that supreme court cases because they found th it does i it can become circular but if we rely on the supreme court cases there's also golf wheeler bowman jonesborough they find that there's the direct educational benefit to the student where it's broadly interpreted and it's found where a student can next and identifies with a particular community and where his natural community center is that will increase the student's participati school and extra current particular activities and increases the student's participation so the direct education more of a whole child factor the supreme court was considering i'm i'm reading straight from the cases and the cases there are cases that say you cannot consider the whole child factors without st finding the direct educational benefit those are the  i'm backing up i'm backing it up and sure i think obviously there's the whole child and community of interest factors but i know that that's not the issue here because that's obvious the issue is whether there's a direct educational benefit to holden so that we would grant a petition and but what we're i guess i guess the problem i'm having with that position is that we are instructed by the new and revised statute that we should not consider those things first to the original who are they have to consider whether there's an educational benefit st and foremost and then if there is then they consider the well i think then we have to read the carver case the carver case says how do you determine whether is a direct educational benefit for the student to  that where the child and i i know what make sounds circular but where the child maintains this community of interest and where his community is been focused that is the going to be in factor into whether there's a direct educational benefit the child is going to be more active to likely to protests may in extracurricular activities so there will be a direct educational benefit where the student has ties to that community and has a long term longstanding interest in that community the court found in carver therefore there's a direct educational benefit and granting  but i don't think that shepherd deals the much with the educational benefit of the child rule i think that's i think we're getting caught up in this school report cards issue so so based on what you just said with and i mean the car i think the carver case is very important says that the judiciary shouldn't be treated as a super school board the regional board should be counted on to address the statutes and the law and even the regional board in their five page single spaced decision decided in the alternative as mr schoolie said that the board made it clear that even if the school report cards weren't considered they found that based on these community interest factors and the season holden's strong involvement in the community it would be in his best interest to allow him to continue to attend school ok yeah and so i mean when it's to find the direct educational benefit st which i think we've done here if you've done that then you can also bring in the community of interest and whole child factors and oh in a in a few years ago there was a statute passed that had to do with whether original board can also consider school report cards our board that they arrive at the same decision whether or not the school report cards were admitted into evidence so i'd like to back up and say methodically in order to decide whether a petition and action be granted we need to decide what is in the no benefit of the student and in order to do that you won't find another case that talks about any other way to find out whether relocating that student will have a direct educational benefit on that student aside from we have carver golf wheeler bowman jonesboro they talk about these community of interest factors and whether the natural community center of the child is in that new school district and what's in the best interests of the student and i think here it's obvious that there's a direct educational benefit for him to continue to attend school and hundreds well let me ask you one last question  direct educational benefits although i think it's important to also point out that the has he never introduced the school report cards and did not argue the information contained therein supported the finding that there was a significant direct educational benefit that's because the parties during this proceeding thought that the school report cards were not born in the image of evidence as the the school report cards shall be considered and again only if there is no more than a three percent difference in the minority low income and english one or student population that's what it says we're not trying to get all three to exclude them we need all three to include them the legislature has said in order to save this in order to consider school report cards the school districts must be considered similar they are considered some are right or wrong the statue because if they are similar they will have no more than three percent