the subcommittee will come to order and take a moment of personal privilege to acknowledge the family of mr at kelley who in this business is considered family many of us gathered after nine eleven in our respective positions members of this committee gathered as members of the select committee on homeland security many of us were there from the start and mr kelly comfortably retired having served as part of the excellence of corporate america decided to render that if you will for another day and accepted the call to become part of the fighting men and women who serve in the department of homeland security we owe him an enormous debt of gratitude for his service i was privileged to join my colleagues chairman to dent full ranking commenee person in mr king to send a letter of sympathy and was additionally privileged to rise to the floor of the house to be able to give him the tribute that he deserves as an american hero i'd like to have if i indulge with unanimous consent to have his family stand at this time so that they might be acknowledged by all of  i believe it's mrs kelly it kelly sister and niece who are present with us today thank you also very much for your presence here the subcommittee is meeting today to receive testimony on t s a is inadvertent disclosure of security information related to airports our witness will help us to assess what transpired and lay the groundwork for ensuring that this never happens again remember the title of this hearing is has the a breached its breach jeopardize national security an examination of what happened and why that is out tasks and that is our duty to protect the homeland and the way to do that is to determine what and why and to say never again i now recognize myself for an opening statement and before i do that we will have aired a film that has been presented previously on early christmas present to the kinds of people who are trafficked in this kind of secret information some of the compromised information is just routine common sense not to cheer for design law enforcement officer may be cleared without undergoing s the only early christmas present the terrorists will get will be the resolve of the men and women of the department of homeland security the president of the united states and the men and women of the united states congress that is why we are here today to ensure that going forward in this holiday season we have the opportunity to cure quickly the unfortunate and that's a mistake that has been made and so i hope as we proceed in this hearing we will hear that steps are being taken to ensure the safety of the families who will be beginning their families during what i hope will be a very happy holiday season we're here today as well to discuss last week's revelation that a t s a manual containing sensitive security information was posted by t s a on the internet without proper technical safeguards as a result sensitive information about our airports and screening policies were made available for the world to see my colleagues and i were alarmed by this development as it sent shock waves across capitol hill this subcommittee takes its oversight of t s a very seriously after all t s a was constructed to help protect the american people from the very type of events that transpired on september eleventh two thousand and one when events such as last week's are made public becomes all too clear that more must be done and that he is famous keep his eye on the ball and that's also be assured that contractors of wiring types are again vetted trained question queried and if necessary be part of the inquisition because the security of america is paramount today we'll be evaluating how this happened the security ramifications of this misstep and how we're going to avoid simul lapses in the future and as well to ensure that those missteps if they can be characterized as such are do not in fact jeopardize the national security of the american people before we go further let me be clear that although this was a serious breach in the management of sensitive information i have been assured by t s a that additional personnel and procedures been put in place at airports across the country to ensure the safety of the traveling public in essence terrorists watch out any terrorist group or individual wishing to exploit the situation should be aware and be ware that the united states will continue to use all available resources to protect the flying public during this busy holiday see even the american people should know that it is safe to fly along with the courtesies that we expect to be offered by the transportation security administration officers we do expect for them to do their duty last week chairman thompson and sent a letter to t s a urging a third party review of this incident i am happy to learn the secretary in the apollo tunnel responded and requested that the inspector general investigate take over completely and provide recommendations regarding this incident i look forward to a quick and immediate response in addition i commend t s a for taking steps in response to this incident for example i have been informed by t s a that five people have been placed on administrative leave this subcommittee however also needs assurance that t s a is reviewing its processes for handling and posting of sensitive security information and making a full inventory search of all of the staff around these issues and ensuring that this is not permeated beyond the five that were engaged in this unfortunate set of circumstances questions we have include who's in t s a is management who n t s b is management is ultimately responsible for this process is there a manual for training employees on how to post such information what is the role of contract employees in the handling and disseminating of sensitive security what new steps are being put in place to vet those individuals on their training their instincts their knowledge and as well of their ability to adhere to rules and safety precautions and is there sufficient training for contract employees i would also like to know how broadly contract employees are solicited and how far is the reach and are we using small minority owned businesses are we using the same ones over and over again therefore committing the same mistakes over and over again one of the lessons make clear by this incident is that t s a needs permanent effective leadership our witness today acting administrator zis has led t s a during a very active year and we thank her for her service but the person nominated by the president to lead t erroll southers has had his confirmation held up in the senate let me be very clear we understand the duties and the constitutional privileges of the senate advise and consent but what they are engaging in in a partisan one sided approach is jeopardizing the security of the american people we need action on his nomination immediately and i hope all stakeholders will also call for his swift confirmation  kelley managed t s a is cargo screening program and testified before this subcommittee just this past march and was an incredibly dedicated individual and a consummate professional who left retirement as i said after september eleventh attacks in order to work on behalf of our nation's homeland security efforts many in the industry said that he reform the industry he made leaps and bounds of change and outstanding contributions to the security of employees but after last week's announcement about the disclosure and unfortunately other incidences i think we can all agree that t s a can do better and that is why we are here today after a complete analysis of this incident we will determine how to make the agency and its employees perform better and give the american people more confidence in the t s a i am considering legislate that will help provide a firewall over the issuance and receive additional testimony if necessary hearing no objection it is so or that the chair now recognizes the ranking member the gentleman from pennsylvania mr dan who by the way joined us in his sympathies for mr kelly but i also note that mr kelly has come from his region if not his particular district mr dent you now recognize for the opening statement thank you madam chair and i too want to add my my condolences and sympathies to the  kelly family was a wonderful public servant served department of homeland security so well in this nation so well are our sympathies and i'm speaking not only on my might make my behalf but on behalf of the entire committee in expressing our condolences to his wife and his sister rosemary and i believe his niece elizabeth is here as well so again from all of us are told condolences again thanks madam chair and one thing to i know the family has a strong connection to northeastern pennsylvania like ariel and very special place for the family situation t s a is mistake has undoubtedly weaken our aviation security while we have many layers in our aviation security process sees some of those layers have been exposed have to having the aviation security screening management standard operating procedures posted on a public web site for the past nine months i agree with comments made last week from the federal forstmann officers association which stated quote air marshals and t s o's probably shoulder considerable risk by to include their statement without objection so ordered as terrible as it as a very public nature in which t s a is mistake was disclosed i'm pleased that we know the mistake was actually made and that the doc accidentally released and now t s a has an opportunity to learn from that mistake the question is will that mr city's i'm confident the t s a will while i understand it people make mistakes my review of this incident over the course of the past week has led me to one simple conclusion this is not the failure of an individual but rather that of failure of a system an individual and t s a s s i review office failed to comply with national security agency's processes for electronically  finally management fail to ask why it was necessary to post a security related document online for a contract and failed to consider viable alternatives on his second day in office president obama said quote transparency in the rule of will be the touchstones of this presidency close quote why then after more than a week of phone calls e mails letters and in person request this committee still not have the most recent version of the standard operating procedures section one fourteen are two of title forty nine united states code specifically states that designating a document as sensitive security information but does not authorize information to be withheld from a committee of congress author to have the information so the code says and while i appreciate my letter to this receipt is insisting she provide the committee document and again i ask unanimous consent to introduce that letter into the record section so on it thank you in the end you know a lot of things went wrong but a lot of things are now going right i understand t s a is taking some risk mitigation measures and has taken some immediate commonsense actions to prevent any further disclosures i would hope to the extent possible you could highlight some of these during your testimony to say afternoon  finally to those who we posted this security information on the internet you should share in the blame should security be reached as a result of this disclosure in the future i would ask that you please please use the whistleblower continue to believe that the men and women of t s a including yourself and your staff are giving your best efforts to improve the security the traveling public and while the accidental disclosure was certainly a disappointing in the lack of transparency provided by this administration is frustrating i am committed to working with you to improve the transportation security administration the services provided to our traveling public and with that back the balance of my time i thank the gentleman for i'd also like to take the opportunity to express my condolences to the family as well as his t s a colleagues who were here it was a dedicated public servant and his efforts in the cargo security will never be forgotten there's no doubt that the events that transpired last week raised several questions about t s a has operational procedures and practices and handling sensitive information perhaps more importantly this incident also raises concerns about the security of our entire transportation system no actions legislation or press statements can undo the disclosure of this information however we can learn from this incident and move forward with security measures that in shua sensitive information will not be made available to the public  vents from last week serve as a reminder of how critical it is to have accountability at the department of homeland security and i think it was the right decision for secretary on the politics to request that d h asked inspector general began an investigation of this incident the review an investigation by the inspector general is an important first step in learning the details that will be essential in helping t s a improve procedures for handling and posting sensitive material however as i've said before to get t s a to improve its operational performance in our program areas and at all levels of management it is essential that t have permanent effective leadership the president has nominated those to be t s a administrator and i think we've waited long enough for this confirmation has law enforcement background and operational experience will be essential in improving t s a and strengthening homeland security efforts will strong leadership in its place searches disease less likely to happen nevertheless today's hearing provides us in congress with an opportunity to express our concerns and hear from t s a about what it plans to do and i'm sure that we will meet follow up briefings and perhaps another hearing to review the back to the chairman of full committee and let me also express my appreciation for the astuteness and the detail of which the committee with you as chair and the staff has taken to securing the  homeland i think this committee reflects that and your cooperation and agreement with the subcommittees intent to hold a hearing is much appreciated and again thank you very much for your leadership i wish to recognize i think other members of the subcommittee reminded that on the committee rules opening statements may be submitted for the record our witness today miss gale rosies is the acting administrator of t s a and as i indicated previously we are grateful for her service her long standing service as acting administrator mr aziz oversees a workforce of fifty thousand people and the security operations of four hundred fifty federalized airports throughout the us it as well as the federal security regime for highways railroads ports and mass transit systems this rosies was one of the six original federal executives handpicked in two thousand and two to bill t s a and let me say that deserves a commendation and we thank you for that on jeopardy of service without objection the witness for state will be inserted in the record i now asked ms for his eighty's to summarize her statement for five minutes you recognize for five minutes good afternoon chairwoman jackson lee ranking member did and chairman thompson and distinguished members of the subcommittee first of all i want to thank you for recognizing the services of kelly and his family he was truly one of our heroes and t appreciate your giving me the opportunity today to speak with you about the recent web site posting of an improperly redacted version of a management standard operating procedure or a soapie on a federal web site i regret this occurred and take full responsibility for this mistake our response was swift decisive and comprehensive because our priority first and foremost is the safety the traveling public i want to reassure all members of this committee and to the traveling public that our aviation system is strong and the passengers will fly safely this holiday season and every day because of the layered security system we have in place from cutting edge new technology to retraining our entire workforce to the implementation of new security programs we have evolved and substantially strengthen security in the year and a half since this document was drafted on sunday december sixth i became aware that the screening management s o p was posted to the federal business opportunities website without having the sensitive security information or s properly redacted the document was an attachment to a screening partnership program contract solicitation we took immediate action i convened a teleconference with t s a senior executives and we notify d h s headquarters on sunday night also on sunday when night we removed the document from the government web site within hours thanks to prompt work by the general services administration i then directed t is office of inspection to immediately begin a review of what happened and how and that review has since been passed on to the d h s inspector general our security operations office conducted an operational assessment of any potential vulnerabilities that this disclosure may have caused and out of an abundance of caution we quickly put mitigation measures in place to close any potential gaps i directed an audit of sensitive information posted both internally and externally to be conducted by the chief information officer we consulted with our federal and law enforcement partners and stakeholders throughout the aviation domain and all have been tremendously supportive there have been numerous and significant changes in our evolving security program that are not contained in the may two thousand and eight version of this s o b as a point of reference this document provides instructions on who and what needs to be screened it does not include the specific procedures used by our transportation security officers to screen members of the traveling public today says twelve other standard operating procedures including the ones that cover an officer's screening procedures remain secure the strength of our dynamic security system is in our own people o technology our stakeholder partnerships and our multilayered and complex protocols we take this matter very seriously and look forward to the inspector general's report our response to their recommendations will also be swift we will hold individuals accountable as appropriate at this time five g s a employees have been placed on administrative leave pending that's an outcome of the continued investigation this is been a critical incident for t s a and we have managed it as such from an exhaustive internal review we will emerge with stronger internal document control measures for all employees we will strengthen the electronic processes we use for sharing information and most importantly we will continue to evolve our security programs in light of intelligence and our own testing and training regime to ensure the ongoing security of the system in closing i want to  assure members of this committee the traveling public and our partners that our nation's aviation system is strong we have closed any potential gaps and we will continue to apply measures that enhance our complex security system i am happy to answer your questions and and discuss any sensitive material in the closed session to follow thank you of the members will be recognized in the order of which they have arrived day's thank you for the initial steps that have been taking me just as one pointed question because when we started this unfortunate incident and a lot of hysteria was created both in terms of the media reporting it really looked devastating tell me what level of participation now is the id how much how comprehensive  investigation madam chairwoman they are specifically looking at what happened who was involved how did it happen and what measures and recommendations can they make to t so that it does not happen again they are looking at both papers and they are doing an extensive forensics on the technology looking at the electronic transmission of the documents on the  p did you indicate that members could have individual classified a confidential briefings on the new procedures yes ma'am we have offered and we will can to offer as we go through this process briefings to any of the members or their staff on the current s o p s that is in place across the aviation system so that the members can get a full understanding and appreciation of the fact that  many systems improvements have been put in place since that version in two thousand and eight was drafted what is your best assessment of whether or not the lives of americans are now presently at jeopardy or in jeopardy because of information that is already disseminated what we're speaking of here is a pullback of what occurred and an investigation of why but now that information has been disseminated where are we with respect to  security as relates to the traveling public madam chairwoman the system is very strong and i am very confident in saying that for several reasons first of all there were six version or updates to the document that was released that had very significant changes to the way we conduct the screening procedures secondly this was a management standard operating procedure in other words it had a lot of checklist of what to do to start the day at the checkpoint it did not have a lot of sensitive security information on how to actually do certain procedures at the checkpoint that being said i appreciate the  gravity and the significance with which people regarded this but we knew in our immediate reaction was to begin to do a line by line review of that document compare it to measures in place today and frankly even with the confidence we had out of an abundance of caution we immediately took some additional measures which we do any time we get information that says let's put an end i'll set of measures in place in order to be that much more confident in the system is it safe to say that you have changed the review procedures and is it also saying i'm asking several questions that one so you might want to make note  the reviews or the process that administers the s s i meaning of the document prior to making the document available to the general public who review those procedures is it safe to say that as the public is traveling that there are new schemes and procedures that no one knows about and lastly let me just hold this up this is an example of the kinds of cards that were displayed some others dealt with law enforcement officers who need to have a confidentiality in privacy the question is should we begin to change all of these i in order to ensure the safety of those who are in the service of their government madam chairwoman let me answer your questions and make sure that i have i am fully responding to your several questions first of all with respect to the review  procedures there were several things we did we began our information information protection oversight board which is a board we established several years ago to look at incidents like this we also i i asked that even though s o p s be treated in their entirety as s s i i asked that we just hold and not release any other s o p s until we could get a complete review of what what was had been released and what the circumstances were i also directed the office of acquisition to look at all of their current and recent postings corporate your missile a cetaceans and take down any that had any other relevant s s i or  information and to make sure that they looked completely at those which to the best of my knowledge we had no other we put in a number of measures mitigation measures that are part of the flexible flexibilities that we have across the system and federal security directors on monday morning were directed to implement some of those other flexible provisions so that we would ensure the safety of the traveling public i'd like to specifically  describe the idea that you show and although you know we take full responsibility and we're not at all pleased that this document was released those i d s in the document are photocopies and i just want to assure you and the traveling public and our law enforcement partners there are other aspects to those identifications and credentials that have security features to them and we have extensive procedures in place to validate the authenticity of persons traveling through that represent themselves as law enforcement officers in fact some of those improvements we've made have been at the direct urging of this committee thank administration would embrace a spirit of transparency the day after gratian president stated quote transparency in the rule of law will be the touchstones of this presidency close quote are you familiar was section one fourteen or  authorizes t s a to prescribe regulations prohibiting the disclosure of sensitive security information can you please explain your interpretation of the congressional exemption included in section one fourteen or to  exercise the absolute operational security over all of these and my commitment to you once we are through the traveling holiday season i will come back and i will talk with you in the leadership of this committee about how to make all of that information available to you and in the meantime we will sit and give briefings to any members of their staff that requested on this document specific i certainly appreciate the t s a provided my staff about an hour briefing on the differences between these two documents and think it was about an hour the latest version of the document but i want to make sure that i'm clear that i would be clear that i still would like to have a hard copy of the document for a thorough review provided why is why is this different the only reason this is different right now is in the immediate aftermath of this incident i was very concerned to maintain the tightest controls over the current version because it does have very significant changes to what was released and i just wanted to take the absolute measures to protect that information and that's why hard copy wouldn't be presented but we were very very willing to provide the information and actually websites not have any authority to ask non government or non fights to take it down and what action the c s a intend to take against those who are riposte in this sense a document that should not be in the in the public domain well right now there really isn't any authoritative action we can take honestly persons that have posted it i would you know hope that out of their patriotic sense of duty to you know their fellow countrymen they would as i yield to chairman thomas and let me be very clear administrator is a is that there is a view by the majority and i appreciate the comments of the ranking member that we want to see the inspector general's work completed  before any public distribution of these items the fop in particular because there is concern about the impact on national security i would encourage members to take full advantage of the personal review of documents but we ask you to urgently move forward as our ranking members indicated and we are going to be following this through the holiday season and into the beginning of the year and now i'm pleased to yield five minutes to the when this particular posting went up on the way and when they found out about it yes sir it went up in march of two thousand and nine it was part of a solicitation for the s p p program and it came to my attention in senior leadership attention on sunday december sixth in the early evening so this this particular item was in the public domain from march until december yes or well i guess one of my concerns is you said you took swift decisive in comprehensive action that's after you found out correct so before that it was and wherever i get one of the can you explain to the committed the protocols for putting items on the way or yes sir it's at least through the acquisition process there are two approaches when we post prepared in actions one is to when we have any kind of sensitive information one is to post it to the secure side of the g s a said bizarre site which means that it is password protected or otherwise secured the other is solicitations get posted to fed unsecured side this particular solicitation got posted on their unsecured side and then was not properly redacted and the there are other ways that we also will give potential vendors the opportunity to look at s s i information in particular in actions we might have a physical reading room where we invite the vendors in and then they can look at that any s s i material in a little reading  i can't really comment because of the i g s due diligence on determining exactly who did what posting there was a contractor under work for under the s office at the time a contract company under contract to the s s i office while we have a contractor in the s s office contractors small contracts like that often just provide clerical support sometimes they provide research support sometimes they provide some technical wrist support they are not people that are making the decisions on the technical aspects of the job in terms of like are they required to have clearances yes or they are did all these employees in question here have clearances that i cannot answer specifically but but during the scope of the i g review we will know exactly what clearances everybody did have in this particular people involved you've already suspended five people yes or i would hope that part of your review would have looked at whether or not these clearances  part of the ids review they will determine if it was confined to just these five or if in fact there are more people who are responsible for their or for the committed is  point of information how do we find out about this how did t s a find about this posting i found out from a blogger notifying our bl team the t s a blog team and a blogger who frequently blogs on tss blog called and sent an e mail to one of our bloggers and pointed it out and that that followed a chain of events of my being notified of it so th particular software that was used to do the redacting is that a t s a approved software any any of the software on to say computers are approved by our chief information officer  that chief information officer understand that it could be on redacted on aware that will be part of what we learn in the i g review exactly which software what version of the software and what version was on the various computers that actually touched this document so we don't know i do not know yet i would take it you talked to the chief information officer ye and they are going through and looking at all of the versions of the software on t s a computers now and they're going through that inventory right now with the goal being that we will ultimately have the same software on all computers and be on redacted yes sir there is have we made that software available to everyone who's doing posting on the way up for t s a yes sir we have and we are going back and making sure that everybody who is using that software is properly trained and knows again how to properly use that software and if i can add had this software been properly used it would have worked on this document so we're making sure that everybody who deals with s s i information and you just told me you don't know which software you me the software in use the software that our c i a o uses today unauthorized if that and our government whether be accidental or carelessness can make such a mistake is posting such oncet information on a website i'm very concerned about them very concerned the fact that t s a post the standard operating procedures that the federal government with this incident may have inadvertently helped those that we don't want to see is information terrorists others do their homework for them so to speak and i'm very concerned about so let me if i may i will have a number of questions here and they get right to my questions but miss received a receipt as thank you for your testimony today but let me first of all ask you kind of following up on the chairman's questions on redaction how often does the t s a post redacted standard operating procedures on the internet and what's the purpose of that sir this was the first time that we had ever posted a standard operating procedure for a procurement solicitation and it was done specifically for that particular meant for companies to compete for privatizing airports in the state of montana let me follow up on that that answer because mark my next question be why would t s a post any of it's standard operating procedures whether be sensitive or not and i understand that some of this document may have been i mean the entire document may not have been security sensitive but where there were parts that the general public we didn't want to see why would you post anything why would you give anyone the opportunity to learn anything about t procedures in the in the course of that particular solicitation any vendors will have to be able to prove that they can provide the security procedures at those airports and so they needed to know what kind of requirements we would have at checkpoints for them to be able to demonstrate their qualification to be a qualified vendor to be considered for this contract beyond that one of the questions that the is asking is why why did we take the steps that we did and they're reviewing that decision in terms of why was it posted follow up on this question again what is the purpose of posting this white  a post this on the internet what's the purpose of the the purpose was for a procurement action and it is not something that we post routinely it was for a specific particular man action that this particular s o p was posted you're doing business we have immediately mediately directive the office of acquisition to not post any s o p s like this and what we will review with the general services administration is ensuring that if we ever do have to post solicitations again say for the technology purchases that we're doing that we contain any s s i information we will verify that that is in a secure environment on their secure web site we're also looking at other measures physically inviting potential vendors in to look at material as opposed to doing any postings at all and i appreciate that answer let me kind of follow up a little bit on what the chairman was talking about as far as redacting the sensitive documents and i think that's very offices that have s s i information there is a designated individual who is trained to properly redact the materials and the chief information officer puts out the  instructions on how to properly redact information based upon the the technology that is on each individual disk and computer that process now we are going back and reviewing both as part of the  review in terms of how did this actually happen and then now what r c i all is also doing is making sure that the same software for redacting is on all is based on what's happened here do you believe that our aviation security has been compromised or weakened because of this incident no sir i do not  would have been what you just said no matter what yes or i believe that our system is very strong no no no i mean body but even if it weren't that that would be the answer and i don't i mean you  set here in front of you know the t v cameras that system has been compromised i believe that the system is very strong and it was not compromised as a of i'm not sure you can answer my questions here in public but i know because when i get for a perhaps when we get into the closed session i can i can answer and give you more examples that's why i'm i'm confident in our system  generally whether it's science or the elegy or after apology or epidemiology we all build on what what was  so it seems to me that any new versions were built on older versions am i right about that yes  and that's true but that the bulk of that information is not s s i information it's a checklist it's routine standard procedures who actually won the contract ok it sounds like we've been called a vote and the questions that i have based on what you're saying i'm not sure i want to answer i mean i don't think you'll answer it in front of everybody else in the first place and answer what i want to ask you because then i get frustrated because you you you you can't answer and on top of that appreciate you not answering it i thank the gentleman and the gentleman is correct if we are prepared to go into executive session we are called for a vote and then to continue for a period of time i do want to ask the administrator on her time  circumstances here we see the number of members but we do want to pose that question to you what is your time circumstance please you know probably man to woman i've got to be out of here by about four fifty four fifteen graciously accepting him but we're going to members first  mr mr himes is recognized thank you madam chair quick couple of quick questions first i share my colleagues concern obviously with this disclosure of sensitive information of course no organization doesn't make mistakes the measure of an organization is how well you learn from your mistakes and it sounds like you've taken a fairly aggressive approach to that  here's a slightly off the wall question but one that i think is important we know that through a couple of different mechanisms this information is now in the public domain are you or is anybody looking to see who has download it and has it on their web site non government non yes web sites we do know that thank you no i'm just intrigued by the possibility that you might cross check a list of those end users not just usually marked with some degree of classification sometimes each paragraph is actually indicated some level of classification do you follow a similar protocol on a on a hard copy would would would s s i be always indicated as such yes or it if appropriately marked the s s i document would be marked and the pages would have a header in a folder on them that said it's s s i information and not having seen the s s i that was disclosed was that in fact appropriately marked as such no sir it was not and that was part of the problem so the failure was one of marking and redact and reed acting ok do you have a sense for what your overall rate of compliance is with respect to marking appropriately your your your documents well sir the we do a number of self assessments as part of our s s i program and we do those routinely we also had a very extensive review by g a o at the end of two thousand and seven who actually gave very good marks very good agreed to t s a for how we do our program office addresses s s i ok thank you a yield back the balance of my time i think the gentleman from connecticut then like to now recognize mr bill rock as for five minutes yeah go ahead and ask my questions during the executive session manager thank you but that is not particularly relevant to our request for this document we are separate and equal branch of government responsible for overseeing t s a activities and i'm frustrated by the unwillingness to provide us a date certain for representatives with this doctor i think it's only appropriate and i'd rather not do it if i had a date certain i would not ask for this resolution but failing that spread that issue upon the record this gentleman in timmins finished his i know is when i first begin the engagement and took it over from our office of inspection they said they wanted to have it done in a matter of a couple of weeks so that they started that you know earlier right after they started in on number ni i am aware that the chairman of the full committee has authority to move forward and it would seem mr dent that you would raise that question with the chairman of the full committee and i think that would be the appropriate next step and not a resolution of inquiry i might also say it is ironic that i would use the term leaks because obviously we've had a breach but there have been many many members of the house and the senate that have asked for this document and there's no doubt this is a high profile document but i'll job is to ensure that there are no further leaks equaling breaches so i would ask that you ask the chairman of the full committee is the first step but more importantly i would say that i'd like this rosie's to come back in the next twenty four hours if she can be in touch with the secretary and the i g to get a more definitive i know answering today may be difficult but i would think the inspector general be open to the fact that this is urgent misted then has indicated urgent there is  a suggestion of a resolution of n korea which i think is premature but even so that shows the urgency of the matter and we need to in essence respond to that so i would suggest that the  first response for mr dent and his colleagues is a request to the chairman of the full committee mr thomson and then i would want to have the additional information for out subcommittee as to the time that you would receive this document i would quite happily with for all the emotion for the resolution of the inquiry i do feel that the inspector general investigation is irrelevant to our request for that particular document as i've said reconciliation or a moment that we can reconsider let me quickly and i think there are one and two members that are going to be here i'm continuing the hearing because of the time constraints that mr is eighty's so anyone is interested in the  in the going forward on the executive session may need to hurry back because the first vote let me just to proceed assume all members have gone forward i will  or have disposed of in another manner and i do need to get a correct interpretation were some of these individuals contract employees madam chairwoman at the time in march of zero nine the one of the individuals was a contractor but he is now a t s a employee and he is one of the five t s a employees that is on administrative leave do you believe that any actions by these employees was intentional i would have to wait for the i g report but my honest assessment is no but you i think this was an accident your honest assessment is no but you do not know i don't know for sure until the i g gives this report and one of the employees was a contractor and you were representing to this committee that that individual is now employed but are you also representing that that individual went through the normal security checks  if he was hired as a t s a employee he would have had a background check what do we learn from the idea or not the idea but the actual happening of this incident occurring in march of two thousand and nine and this was exposed in the last three weeks what do we learn from that i and as well you answer that question can you comprehend the  disappointment that we have in that issue madam chairwoman i think there's a number of things that we learned from this and are learning from this are that we definitely need better process place and tighter controls on how we handle sensitive information and in the in the in the size of t s a as large of an organization it is where this information is shared across the organization we're going to have to make sure that we have designated personnel who are properly managing and managing this information and treating it in the manner in which it should be we need to make sure that our personnel are trained and really truly understand if there is a lesson that the entire t s a organization has learned in this it shows that you know the accident or the mistake of one or a few can tremendously impact the whole agency and our credibility with the american public and so we're taking it very very seriously and i think that our our frontline officers our fams our inspectors r t s those are very much aware of their responsibility now because  document like this has been put out there so i think they'll be a number of lessons that we will learn and i also think that there's technology solutions that hopefully will come from the i g report about the right technology to use the right versions to use when reacting information let me say that i will recess this committee and keeping in mind your schedule we will return quickly but my intent is to write legislation first of all  with a great deal of respect for the reliance of this government overall not just part of the homeland security on contract employees from blackwater employees to a number of others it is clear that there needs to be standards utilized for the hiring retaining and utilizing of contract employee yes it'll be my thought it'll be my legislative initiative to and says that contract employees not because as i was listening to the chairman if this is unique technology that ultimately will prevent redacting from showing up again on a web site then i don't want random individuals having access to that because then you can be exploited so i will introduce legislation in the early part of the year to establish that criteria and we will also have to find a better pathway of informing the members of this house and senate and i would imagine in the white house on issues of breach of security with that this hearing remains in recess we may start back  n with a brief open session but we'll then go into the executive session thank you this hearing is now in recess the explanation as to whether or not we had a different software in march of two thousand and nine and we now have a different software in december of two thousand in dealing with this particular issue madam chairwoman i can't answer that question with any specificity because i do not know and that is what the i g s forensics team is looking at as they're looking at all of the computers that were used by people in this  i cannot answer that that will be part of the i d f review do you have information and if you said it before if you could say it again that the policies of dealing with s s i have now changed is there a review process of several individuals that are now as we speak looking at the sensitive security information and making  a paper trail decision meaning that you will know who made the decision on what goes on to the web yes and that that's really give you a couple of answers to that first of all our procedures for how s s i information is handled internally is part of our review and our lessons learned we will look again at those procedures the s s i office maintains  very detailed records of how they look at the documents and then how the documents are passed forward to other offices the acquisition office is also looking at their their procedures and then most importantly the i our chief information officer is looking at both the technology that should be used across the whole agency in handling redacted material we have actually asked the a the n s a to come in and help us ensure give us a certification that any tool we use for redact material electronically will meet their certification standards so we're taking that added measure as you as you do that you are going to have written criteria some roadmap to go forward on the handling of these materials so that we can assure the american people that this will not happen again we will do an exhaustive review and i commit to you that we will make sure we have procedures in writing that we train the appropriate personnel and that we raise every employee's awareness about the importance of handling s s i material appropriately and as i indicated  with respect to contractors is there any determination that contractors would be outside the realm of sensitive security materials no madam chairwoman right now i believe that we do have some contractors that handle assign material but if they do they are subject to the exact same procedures that any employee in handling s s i is subject to but i frankly believe that we should leave  materials to employees of homeland security i know that this government has become very dependent in many areas and some areas it's very effective i have no problem with who builds our highways and bridges it may be very difficult for the government to engage in construction but i certainly have concerns about the use of non government employees in the handling of sensitive security information and i'm going to raise that with the department i'm raising it with you like you to raise it with your team and we'll have to come to some resolution on that because there is a little reprimand i believe under the circumstances for a contract employee who is getting paid by tax dollars but then is unfortunately in a breach such as this which we have that determine whether or  not it was intentional certainly i i appreciate your representation at the level that it was that and the final question before we enter into this session the individuals that you were dealing with that at the mid level and a one night believe is it a senior management level but i could have i'd have to confirm all for all five of them i know that that one the high the highest level one was at a senior management level it's a