planning commission meeting feb twenty eighth nine o five a m is now called to order you will start the morning with public turn off your cell phones or courtesy just as we get the list we will start public testimony if anyone wishes to tap into my anger at this time you may do so and any agenda item if you testify at this point you will not be able to testify again later when the agenda item is call so you can either testify now or pass until the agenda item so the first name on our list this morning is ra when the call up is gets a problem there are some losses to there are also money from the government most not too much and i know that if my because i presented my return testimony i want to make sure that all of you read my rita interests the money is much better than my public speaking testimony i get nervous ok flowers and dragon for is so delicious we are happy that we live close to an organic dragon fruit farm we also know that they grow organic lettuce in their haiku farm and when the weather's good and the crops are doing well they always share their fresh organic produce with us and other neighbors it is so great that we have good neighbors like christo mary we know farming is a hard business for a farmer she survives long term it is so helpful if they can have the diversified income we are in support of their efforts to apply for  conditional use to allow short term rental i've known crystal for over twelve years i have only been on the island for through years at that time i was actually passionate about people in caring years i saw that transcend in different parts of her life and work specifically and the farming  found friends with her and visited her her dragon fruit farm and her farm in haiku and i must say the food is delicious so much so it wasn't until i visited her that it inspired me to have my own personal garden six raise garden beds understanding the importance of feeding your family sharing with friends about community those are important for for maui and hawaii i didn't understand a lot about farming there are compelling stories that were passed down to me from my family coming in and the self being sharecroppers and the things they needed to do when it was harvest time not having enough help the weather different a sities but they did what they needed to do with other resources to bring in income for their family and working together we have my husband and i have ag property and haiku and which we have fruit and vegetables and well the specifically the fruit where we share and try to bring moneys back into the community and i hope that through this process that they're going through that if you're able to to receive the are there permit here to say that my husband and i fully support their efforts to apply an up tick in the special permit to diversify their incomes for farming on maui which helps maui hawaii and transcends to is step up to the microphone and and i've been to the dragon fruit company many times also their farm up and west side and as has been said here and everybody knows that farming is the most important job on earth pretty much set aside for mom because it's a food to eat and farmers are mothers to take their baby plants and grow them t added to that is the weather that could just ruin a harvest all at one time and they do need extra money to to help keep it farming and that's the most important thing for out islands and maui is farming we that's our history and now we can grow healthy stuff instead of sugar for the world and if if we think ahead and take the next ten years to clean up the land and be wise and long term thinking about that it would be so much better to have people lie and larry  doing farming here and to be able to have enough to do to send frozen and chill and dry foods to the mainland by sharing containers so the freight will be better and we can bring in fresh money in to the state i think that's a very good future rather than using the land for condos all the way donna whatever and and subdivisions and so on and so forth which is a quick fast moneymaker but in the long run i think we would be better off and that would facilitate our tourist industry more because people would much better like to drive fast growing things instead of built  know normally provide you with paper copies to with our secretary carolyn gone i was just a little nervous but everything seems to be working ok completed in two thousand and fourteen you may be wondering why when she came through the first time to get the conditional permit she didn't come in for this at the same time and i even asked her about that and at the time when she had projected her financials for the business and for the farming she didn't think that she needed it given the numbers that she was looking at it wasn't until after the permit was issued she started trying to run the special events and realized she really wasn't getting any bookings in the booking she was getting was very small not bringing in a lot of money so she started to look for other ways and this is one of the ways i do believe it's rented now to contractors who will be finishing up with a project that they have a not too long and moving on to their next project their next location so they're not sure how many of you were here for the existing permit the planning commission did see it as in twenty fifteen it didn't make it to the county council in february twenty sixt about a year ago and that's when the original permits became effective those permits allow special events up to fifty gas two times a month early at eight o'clock there's no amplified sound allowed she is allowed one large event a year that's not a money making operation it's more about promoting farming and she does have to have a professional event planner there's many more physicians as you know from reviewing these they're included in the exhibits in the staff report to you and then i included with the very first one was her request which is what i explained a little bit earlier she's just not quite making the income that she thought originally so just as a reminder we're looking at poco more specifically the maccie subdivision to the left these are the large lots you can see the think there but you can see the lot up on the screen we have the site plan and you can see with the green circle is where the special event area is and then up there where the red is  is is where the farm to building is two bedroom it's just under a thousand square feet you can see it again circled in red on the right that i'm drawing them talking about today you can see where the special events are held there that's what the house structure got its own separate driveway that's up at the top you can see that the front and then here are some pictures of the interior two bedrooms there is a lafayette up stairs but it would just be the two bedrooms front the dragon fruit farm if you recall its largest dragon should farm in the country it's about fifteen acres got lots of different varieties of the dragon fruit over twenty five hundred but she's also been diversifying into other crops and i know she's recently planted quite a bit of it and a lot of the pie is going on that are a good commercial crop for her banana as there is pineapple on there as well soursop they're starting to plants and these are just some overview of the entire farm itself when the county council looked at the original permit they did actually come out to the site and take a look and they did make comments that it's quite a large farm and there's a lot of agriculture going on these are the dragons fruit plants themselves right there is one that's blooming she's got different staking methods that she's been and different propagation that that that she's been trying that's what different looks like the pineapple and this is just gives you a little bit of example of what she's producing so they just did a segment on living eight oh wait that was state wide where they came in i don't remember the name of the two t v personalities but they came in they did quite a nice segment on it i didn't want to show you the video i thought it would take along so here's some pictures of it and then terms of back to planning there were no comments from the state office of planning and that's who reviews these applications there were two letters of protest from neighbors but i'd almost call them letters of concern there in your staff report you saw them they just really didn't want it to become a party house so i talked with one of the neighbors that we had explained what the condition would be you felt pretty comfortable with  he just wants to make sure that we're able to enforce if it does get noisy up there and i did explain that we have that ability we have an entire force but the nath and a dedicated person right for that area there were also eighteen letters of support total i'm sorry they came to you today i got that she had been collecting them all and then gave them all to me at once so they're on your desk as well as her responses to her neighbors are also in front of you well that's the end of the presentation in that if you have any questions on here as well as the hi good morning my name is don boucher a and i am the operations manager at the maui dragon fruit farm and i know other people have talked about it but we're actually doing really good up there the fruit is starting to come in but as you know it really is hard to make enough money from just farming to pay for everything and that's why we've tried diversifying we try doing these events but what happened with that is if you have to end your event at eight o'clock and you can't have any amplified music it's just really hard you know we're competing with the big hotels for these events so places and other places that aren't permitted for these events and so we really haven't been able to generate any substantial revenue to help us keep the farm going and to help us progress with the farm we actually would like to plant more stuff and do more ag up there but we need money to do that and so that's why we're trying to do the short term vacation rental because that way we can hopefully make enough money to keep going and to get this business to be profitable and as you can see we've gotten at least eight news we were featured on the travel channel last year so not only are we providing food for maui and actually last year we ship to walk to some of our dragon fruit but we're also providing exposure both in a state and nationally that benefits our visitor industry because we you know we do but then we also have visitors come up people are very interested in organic farming they're interested in farming on maui and dragon fruit and the different tropical fruits when you come from kansas for ohio or texas and you think pineapples gone trees it's really neat to be able to come in and i think it'd be really nice for people to come and actually be able to stay on the organic farm great people want that there's a real niche for that so that's kind of why we're asking for it i don't think it's going to adversely impact the neighborhood there's plenty of vacation rentals poco already as i'm sure you're aware and that's it that's all i have to say thank you any questions thank you anyone else wishing to testify this time  morning that's it that's it yeah i don't know that or thank you for that and based on the magnitude of your operation it looks like a large but i hawaii you're at the furthest that i know and i think one of your request was to supplement your dragon food because you were of the you know income coming in and request everybody told me you know you got to start a new business three years you know by eight years i have been making money off this work for somebody who works for the marriott i would have it not no money but i'm not going to go back i mean for me as for life i told people i was trying to feel what solo so the end result is the gift shop is basically not to supplement your dragon food are separate into a little the problem is that we have an image of the visitors to steer to the farm to  though i came under this commission after yours got approved i think this commission is always pro agriculture and noticed the commission helped you with the but the gift shop permit which i think is pretty rare and the also help you with an event permit which as we know sometimes has two hundred people testifying about this and now we're going to go for a third step and you want to do to allow your t v are and it's all to hope your sold and and also do you have a you also say that you have said living inside that that unit correctly right now some construction people you also have the lease for that person that's that's been staying there too or have you been renting that i'll be legally  i now know what it needs from my farm to work because the last time you came here your plan was was incorrect because you're back you're asking for something else so now is what's to tell us that this plan is going to work if we have another occasion went on top of the hill which is not made for a vacation rentals it's made for farmers like you write a bed and breakfast maybe i could see because you're on the farm you have workers bed and breakfast you have some people come in during the harvest time but you having a vacation rental with the gift shop ok totally understand your concern if you haven't been to my reaffirm you'll see how much money to keep step going to make you just going to see it the reality we have that you and i have ten people stand by the ones we want to  because a plant always a hat five years ahead sally good morning crystal i appreciate your passion and i actually appreciate the fact that you actually really are a farmer because we get lots of people through here it's like i  mean i can recall one application the where they had you know some some orange trees planted along their driveway and that was their ag plan quote unquote and they were calling themselves a farmer so your real farmer so i really appreciate that but my question is you know you had your projections as far as what you thought the events were going to bring in and so now you're also going a little bit shooting into the dark with you know your vacation  rental so my question is what's going to be the difference between what you can rent that out for long term and what you project you think you're going to get doing a vacation rental so it's not if you can as you say you have a plan what you know what sort of is that plan for your chin and just like because well you know as commissioner robinson said we want to help farmers but it's like you know maybe the best thing for you is to leave it long term you know and not that not that i need to i have not around when i'm optimistic and that you know and i just don't want do something not permitted so if i do have the option of a few non traumatic short term procedure so i have to option like this two month i have no income but i'm keep going because i planned it five years ago you for this have a lot i'm going to do that's why i'm still alive and well i mean seriously a plan plan plan and i have this option and would if you get locked down to get what you going to do the next forty five days that's the problem when i have that is i'm happy but it will i don't have i don't know what to do i mean hopefully that's all we diversify diversify geographically it's a couple of like trees here are a couple of tangerines and that's it landscaping how long do you estimate it would pick for the  it doesn't because first of all you have to dumb proper second it really broke don't break so now we're trying the metal method so i was to give an example the first the pie and yet doesn't mean the ones are going to be successful in doing them people de haan learned the business you have a successful lettuce business you feed a lot of people in mali and you're stuck on this dragon fruit i hope you succeed in it but at some point you're coming to us to to subsidize your your wish to grow a certain product when you flourish at another product it's business you're running a business and hopefully yours if this doesn't work you realize that these don't come to us back again to help subsidize your will to have your your your wish because you do something well you're doing it well for a long time and you've had a cost will count and i hope you realize that you're successful farmer but maybe not dragon fruit so please don't don't don't bid everything on just one thing because you are successful and don't let something bring so there is two permits that we have we're doing with the state special use permit which you have authority over where recommending that you approve the amendment to the state special use permit we're recommending an additional eighteen conditions most of them that near the short term mental conditions that would make the permit having a total of forty one conditions on it for the conditional permit we're recommending that you recommend approval of the amendment to the county council and again we've mirrored the exact same conditions for that one so in consideration of the foregoing the planning department recommends that the commission adopt the planning department's report and recommendations prepared for today's hearing february twentieth twenty seventeen as your findings of fact conclusion of law and recommendation and authorize the director of planning to transmit said recommendation to the council for the conditional permit and then transmit to the applicant approval of the state land use special permit dragon fruit has not been something that has been proven to be productive and i think from this five years kind of shows that maybe dragon food is not the route to go and by supplementing it with the gift shop and now a short term randall i don't think is the answer to this particular requests so consequently i'm not in favor of  year as as the mover of the motion i obviously support this and for me you know there's a couple of reservations that i do have you know as commissioner robinson had said you know are we going to get every single farmer sewing up to say like listen i want you guys to supplement my farming operation i'm not a successful entrepreneur so i'm not going to give advice as far as what i think that they should do or not there's other people that are successful entrepreneurs that i think that  you know i heed their words very closely and i listen to that but the other side of this is you know we want people to do things right and we want people to become legal right and that's the one thing that i think when i look at this particular application it's someone that actually really does farm it someone that says you know what i could have probably done a vacation rental and not you know been one of those people catch me if you can we've got plenty of those on the island she's saying hey listen you know i want the opportunity to do this if i can if it doesn't work and guess what i'm putting a long term tenant back in there so you know if what we really want is people to come forward and do things the right way and then i think that we you know at least for me i want to personally reward that and i want to say ok you know what yeah i'm on board i you know i don't know if dragon for it's going to work or not but you know i think that it leaves the opposition striving to do the right thing and i feel that she's genuinely trying to do the right thing and so you know obviously i support the motion that as i said earlier i think this particular applicant is a true farmer and is working at it as best that she can exploring a new niche product which maybe if it catches on i guess to probably thought sucker bird was crazy at one point but if it catches on you know there's there's the opportunity to fulfill the market  that might be successful we've given transfer vacation rental permits to a lot of people a lot of money that had beautiful facilities that they built as quote unquote far but welling's but it was never intended to be a farm dorling for farmers to live in it was intended to be a trance and occasional we probably are setting up people that are trying to farm for failure by designing subdivisions two acres fifteen acres to compete against thirty six thousand acre farm stat may grow lettuce among other things and just totally wipe you out if you're a false small farmer trying to work i think pursuing a niche market is probably a boutique market is probably the way to go if you can succeed i don't know that she can but i think of all of the people that we've supported with in agricultural subdivisions this is the one that we should try to support i don't know that it will succeed the facility is not as pretty as the ones that the multimillionaire us can throw up but i wish a success if we're talking about a market for something like that anyway the motion is to approve as recommended by staff and that's for both of those in favor these say i again just going to go right into the power point i think it's the easiest way to tell the story of this permanent ok so i'm going to go ahead and do the first half and then the farm manager is going to take over the farming portion now introduce him when we get to that part so we're looking out anyway and you can see where that is a little bit closer church exactly the prop this is an unusual property in which it's three parcels that make up a showing up on the screen right now it has twelve wholesale accounts and a weekly farmer's market and you can see on the bottom where they sell to local restaurants local grocery stores it is running commercial active  short term i don't know part of it is coming in just for the middle section and just for that area that's circled there there's to do and there's five bedrooms i'm going to go through and show you the property and then i'm going to go into a little more about what existing permits  of why we're here today it's a little unusual so this is as you enter the property in poland in the orchard is mostly to the right as you come up to the driveway you see the one two alan lots of parking however there is a garage that does have p v on top of it you have a pathway you come up to the fern inside this is one of the dwellings that's got to this particular dwelling has two bedrooms so should the bathroom area here are some of the outside and then we move to the other three bedroom farm doing here the bedroom it's here is a site plan the color doesn't come out so great but the area to the left is the farming operation the rectangular right here  there is some farming going on here but it was just easier to show you these are the dwellings for the the rental i'm going to have jonathan go through he's the farm manager he's going to go through talk a little bit about the farming and then i'll come to talk about the existing permits sustainable agriculture systems and implementation university minnesota graduate in two thousand and nine and i thought i was coming here for a couple of months tell some of my biggest dreams of finding opportunities to participate in agriculture contribute to the food positive to the future and therefore you know education and empowering people has always been sort of my first mission and i think that the food that we grow and there's a lot of it brought sort of an example of tea from my gardens this morning is almost like a by product that's really just helping us pursue the mission of education and helping to really facilitate this renaissance of young people that want to be farmers overcome obstacles to getting  pullets that are going to start laying in about sixty days i've really tried to create a holistic system that allows our birds to both contribute sort of their most amazing get to the rest of the farm which is their manure and the fertility that's back into our soil but also to really permit them to exhibit their natural behaviors a incorporated system called politike management irritation or grazing through to you know just live a healthier life and have a healthier diet and consequently a healthier it's you'll see a lot of pictures of it this is our bullet cage so when i started dale chicks i basically our our goal with our chickens is not to raise birds for meat primarily for eggs however chickens don't lay well forever so we every year get new pullets and then we slaughter our retired layers just for personal consumption about once a year also suffer and constantly getting new birds and this is where we keep the young poets we call it our breeder house so we keep the dale chicks under heat lamps  grazing basically a way of concentrating your animals into paddocks and and moving them in a way that ensures they always have access to a green ground and forage to scratch i really tried to stack as many functions into the system as possible and construction of the barn really empowered me to to do that the barn has frontage on all four paddocks so before i had about sixty hands and every time i wanted to move somewhere it was this sort of fiasco of always having to build little temporary fences and walls escaping and not having a solid system and now with the barn it's as easy as going in at night closing one door and opening a new door and boom all of a sudden the chickens have access to a new past year living fence post so praising around an orchard and there's really an amazing symbiosis that occurs with having animals grazing around drops you know they provide this very slow positing of fertilizer in the form of their  e but they also you know reduce the orchard management on their own because they eat pasts and produce the weeds all on their own as the inside of the barn really designed it from the ground up with a sort of ease of use in mind at the very and right across from there is you can see a big door the other end of the buildings about eight feet off the ground so we can back the truck up every six weeks we mean all the litter to bring it over  we compost over fire gardens which we'll see a lot more pictures of next the roofs are on hinges so basically the whole floor can clear out it's really easy to clean and we put in fresh litter every six weeks and it's really cool because it just sweep right out the back end of the building and fall right into the back of a pickup truck which reduces our work a whole lot and you can see the four different doors are two of them two of them would be around the right that go out to each paddocks and rotating my birds it's closing  that humans and chickens for that matter can't really digester get a lot of nutritional benefit from it so it really encourage a lot more broadly ground cover to sort of to grow and in the  things that are really going to provide a healthy diet for the birds to supplement the certified organic feed costs which are tremendous i mean when i had chickens on the mainland the same bag of feed cost you know sixteen dollars organic feed for fifty pounds costs thirty five dollars here so the more that we can feed them something that is locally produced and allow them to forage for bugs and broadleaf around covers it really helps our bottom line in terms of production and sales we have fruit trees are really growing all over the property so you know the math kind of shows like here's the s t r and here's the farm it's it's somewhat like that but it's also the whole properties it's really integrated in terms of our agricultural as we have been and as all over the property you really mature coconut grove you probably have twenty twenty five metre coconuts so we harvest and market on the property as well so it's a very diversified system you know i planted  about forty new fruit trees in this small you know i don't know exactly what the ridge of the pastor is maybe three quarter acre pasture and so far we just got our first grapefruits in three years we've  gotten probably got three hundred pounds of meyer lemons in the third production year and maybe one hundred pounds of limes and that you know once we started foraging the chickens in the orchard have use no supplemental fertilizers of any kind  all that production does comes from the natural fertility that occurs from the animals grazing on the in the orchard some more pictures of paddocks and a fence system different angles more of the fruit trees and again i v's this is a navel orange on the left and on the right that's that one is a  some are no those actually on the left those are giant little acquire a really unique kind of little quiet got the seeds from a friend of mine on the big island and they're really thriving there on the right that's one of our very first grapefruits another view of the barn and again we're about halfway through the installation of a p v system and one of our main visions for the barn was made in an extremely multifaceted facility and increasing our you know our commitment to being a carbon negative property through photovoltaics as well as our you know organic farming methods both contribute to that and p v installation is half completed on this fire and what we have already completed p v systems garden so i say we run and very multifaceted education has always been sort of my biggest mission on this property this is a cottage garden this is one where my internes are free to experiment her internship program is a twelve week immersion experience in organic farming project you know sort of commercial production practices permaculture design as well as agro apology and community living which really creates sort of a holistic experience  think and i hope and i strive to use to empower people to create and live in a more sustainable way hopefully hopefully contribute to a more sustainable island and more sustainable  planet but this is just sort of their personal garden to experiment and we have five of these concrete grades on the whole farm operation and we're just a certified organic c c o m we have about two point eight acres that is our official organic acreage and i really tried to the internship program to demonstrate a wide variety of practices some of our gardens are more interns who are coming to our program because they want to homestead or they want to create a subsistence farm but aren't going to invest a lot in machinery and tools and create a big commercial capital operation so we try to demonstrate the method several enable them to do that with nothing more than a twenty dollars garden fork but then we also have access to a small tractor still do almost entirely and where we are right it's sort of the cusp of that like you know three acres or so which is about the point at which  and is really just trying to demonstrate methods that anybody can do anybody can anybody without a lot of money can come very internship program and feel empowered that no matter where they go in life they'll be able to pick up a garden fork and and  food this is grace garden so we have everything from forty five foot to ninety foot long straight beds this is something we maintain both by hand and occasionally with the use of a small tractor i have a tractor from my old on a farm that i bring over and and trying to demonstrate for those folks coming to our program who really do see themselves as commercial farmers small scale organic farmers one day this is you know us trying to demonstrate practices that are more machine driven and that will enable them to get into commercial production this is just freshly planted with wind chili peppers which is another one of our main target crops in addition to  and they want to do an audit so they're going to pull a random invoice out of my receipt book and they're going to say ok sold you know sixty pounds of kale tamanna foods show me the records that demonstrate the bed that you harvested it from this is l g eleven l keeping process and having you know labels on every single bet on the farm is part of how we organize their seed house so this is where we do all of our seed production we're actually in the design phase right now of an improved facility that will allow us to do both a little bit of greenhouse production enable us to get some cucumbers into the ground even into a low where we get awesome and rot and powdery mildew and all sorts of diseases that come to those crops and human environment but also improved seed starting facilities so both we can grow more successful starts but also so that we can diversify into into a little bit of selling started organic plants at our booth farmer's market these are some pie as we just planted and this is export i just harvested my nine thousand pound of tumeric this year that i'm distributing right now in about nine major cities on the mainland as well as we get three thousand pounds of tumeric last year alcoholic who it was all distributed here on  i so continuing local distribution and really trying as much as possible to contribute to the food security of our island but also really trying to find any way creative ways to increase the financial security for farmers because you know everything that i learned in school is really coming to life now that sustainability is a triple bottom line it's like a three legged stool the entire human sustainability you need to have  a work life balance that doesn't try if you totally crazy you need to make living wages you need financial security but you also need you know environmental sustainability so if any one of those legs that still is removed the environmental leg human leg or the financial leg the whole stool flaps and you know two americas really inspired me and recognizing this this really amazing time with the perfect growing climate it's a tropical crop that is becoming extremely popular because of its medicinal potential mentoring program that i participate in i'm a mentor for the farmers unions program farmer training program and we use how they host say to demonstrate our practices and help your new farmers become familiar with  this is my business partner in the human business sylvia we're watching this is one of our first crops that came out of the ground this is back in november and just just pas november we keep you know right now we have four behind us on the property as well both to provide pollination services for all of our fruit trees produce a little bit of honey but also uses an educated fool and really recognize that we're in a very special place in the world to keep bees right now maui and quiet australia are some of the only three islands in the world laughs with out of a row of destructor might and so you know fingers crossed it never america to really struggle it's really a blessing that we can keep this sort of stock alive here and i work with commercial beekeeper impala who's a queen rare and businesses here in queens and distributing them across north america for all of the dieter's that need to wean often times every spring in order to keep their cool healthy this is our booth at the farmer's market tonight in terms manny and andrea you can really see sort of the diversity in the bounty actually right across from the lettuce farm every every saturday at the country farmers market and i really really admire everything north america on methods of holistic beekeeping natural beekeeping the products industry and also breeding for resistance to the for oh my it all came to our then there's outside experts that we bring in as much as we can and really try to use the facility in a way promotes the sharing of knowledge and the empowerment of new farmers and and everybody that wants to contribute something to creating a healthier it's building compost i joke with my friends that half my job is just shoveling chicken poop it's only actually about ten percent of my job have to be very careful keeping a contract to grant a good friend of mine great beekeeper lives here and while it does a lot of the care of our our hives nowadays and on the right of his name i'm blanking on his name he runs an amazing commercial aviary in new england where he's really pioneered methods of pesticide free breeding of bees to be resistant to the fur which is just one of the most incredible contributions and most incredible examples of how holistic methods can combat real problems and real diseases in real pasts in an organic way that doesn't require any poisons on the land or in our has permits that cover all three parcels the current permits they allow ag education back in two thousand and five you actually needed a permit to do that though things have changed that allows workshops wellness retreats overnight accommodations for students and teachers the problem the department was having down and zoning was the overnight accommodations with students and teachers how do you quantify that what do you do if someone comes for an afternoon class does that count does it not applicant for this this particular property a bunch of just do the short term ronald then we don't have to micromanage all of your overnight accommodation and get records of whether or not it's a student or a person i will tell you the applicant was reluctant because she sees a stigma associated with it she doesn't want that to take away from what her real main focus is made allows her the opportunity if she wants to in between having students or teachers on the property she can just rent it to the general public i don't actually know if she well i know she only wants people on the property that are interested in learning about farming but it does help the department when it comes to enforcement it's makes our job a lot easier if you agree with granting the permit you will see actually the n c p is up for renewal and it does come back to you so on march twentieth i'll bring that permit back to you specifically so in terms of this this short term rental home permit there were no comments from the sta of planning there were no protests from anyone even though it went in the newspaper it went well actually it's an s u p so went out for notice twice to all the neighbors and then there were four letters of support from the various neighbors so that concludes our presentation we can open it up to questions now thank you first we'll see if there's anyone here that would like to testify at this time on the  that's what started it is the question became when is it a student and how long of a class to they have to take so even though they were allowed to have overnight accommodations and they were offering classes gardening classes with  few a few meetings ago were it turned out fine i'm sorry about that i didn't get the i don't have that for you and it was a little unusual because they were operating under a permit ok and the next question is as far as our numbers go with short term vacation now there's another one that shows the short term rental home that this there was anyway there's no other sort terminals right in the immediate area there are two that are within about four miles if i put it in  ok the closest short term rental home is three miles away there are forty two operations in pa your haiku in the cap is eighty eight so this considered one of two it's considered one because it's one t m there's nothing in opposition no emission or selling them so genie just for clarification i know that you know you went to this as your an indication because it just seems to be the you know the cleanest way of doing it what would the other option be if we didn't go this way i mean just to have it on the table just to know ok now i think what we would end up having to do is maybe have them submit a list of other gas and what program they were associated with and the dates they were there we've done that in the past with other permits i did that with my leg up with their special events to make sure they were complying and then it became a real chore for the department to do that and would they have to submit that only reason i ask is because my neighbor had a couple of plants thirty years ago it was the first certified plants project to use the state of hawaii a lot gave me one of them and i managed to kill it this black know how often do you have the classes were students come down for any type of training like they say the education program is really diverse so i have an immersion experience a twelve week program we run a four times a year start a january april july and october and we have an orientation week with classes five days a week and then continuing for the remaining eleven weeks we have a three to experts we can bring in and say create a four week and her year this is pretty normal for us to host whole weekend workshops that are open to the public anything like that char production and i've done whole weekend workshops on worm   maybe laurie remembers the total cap and say probably forty five forty five people and save fifty percent of them were flying in from the mainland and fifty boyd yeah sure and it's actually something that should the short term mental home ever come back to you for amendments again it could be a suggestion so how that bill was written originally it was modeled after the bed and breakfast ordinance and that ordinance states that the permit is attached to the property and then it a tree it applies the cap to the property so the cap is two to bombings and six bedrooms i admit it makes it confusing but that's how council decided they wanted to do it so you can actually have a permit that covers two different ads and it does make it hard sometimes it's so so if you had three dwellings on a property would you get to permits or you would have to have three because i mean we did one for seventeen you know in lima so that's all in all yes so that was unusual because those were c p r into individual law so they were allowed to come in t j yeah yeah so you they would not be allowed to  up to come for a conditional permit franks and whether or not that would be supported i don't know but the max that anybody can come in for six bedrooms under two separate welling so the department is recommending approval with the standard short term rental home conditions now we're only seeing the state special use permit today so that we have the six conditions that go along with that when the department issues the short term rental home all those conditions that you're familiar with will also go on they're not going to redo the six i think you're pretty familiar with them so the planning to apartment recommends of the commission adopt the reported recommendation prepared for today's recommendation twenty twenty if they're not allowed to come in for three years michelle permits you to be just one year with this last round of amendments that went before the county council the council made it an initial period of three years between you and crystal you guys have kind of set the bar as far as you know farmers trying to you know quote unquote farmers trying to show up here and saying that they're farmers i think having you guys back to back is really sort of you know  first dragon fruit farm i think this fits you know that same sort of criteria that i expressed for them project history current on july twenty fifth two thousand and sixteen prior to submitting the pressure use application to the planning department the consultant held a community meeting at the haiku community center the public hearing was a recommendation request by the planning department to the applicant on september first two thousand and sixteen the applicant mailed a notice of application to owners and recorded leases within five hundred feet of the subject property notifying them of the applicant's intent to file the county special use application with the county and january sixth two thousand and seventeen the mount county planning department received a letter notifying the partment of a federal shot clock ruling final determination deadline show report as exhibit number six i'd also like to know at this time that the shot clock ruling is showing too rushed the review process and i'd like to note that because we're moving as fast as we can we don't sit on the permits in the planning department and we give them due process but under normal conditions we would not have scheduled this agenda item at this time on january eleventh two thousand seven hundred forty eight days prior to the hearing the m county planning department mailed a notice to the applicant and appropriate state and county agencies notifying them of the scheduled ny planning commission public hearing february twenty eighth two thousand and seventeen and january twentieth two thousand and seventeen and location map to all owners and recorded leases within five hundred feet of the civic property described in the application and notifying them of the scheduled hearing date time place by certified mail and january thirt thousand and seventeen feb sixth two thousand and seventeen and february thirteenth two thousand and two thousand and seventeen applicants schedule published notice and a location map in the maui news once a week for three consecutive weeks prior to the date of the hearing on january twenty seventh tina notice a public hearing on the application was published in the mountain news by the maui county planning department and at this time i'd like to step away from the microphone from the consultant time to discuss the project further with you and serenely questions think the planning department for their help with this application as sort of an initial matter i realize that the shot clock invocation so abbreviated the appear to time that we had to to work with the sixty five foot model pine telecommunications facility him on a pine is a pole with a single main mast and with pine like branches will be providing a broadband and voice service in addition to the g p s and is really intended to greatly increase the capacity and also the coverage there in this area there and the homeowners i stated that they can graze cattle there again in the future the proposed development here would have any effect on the on the cattle  outside of that sort of opening in the road there there is such sort of consistent hedges and changes and topography that the actual visibility of the proposed tower would really be minimized by locating here's a site plan one thing that you can note from this site plan is that the tower is located nearly six hundred feet back from the road is a five hundred seventy three feet to be precise we also considered looking at some different spots within the parcel potentially moving it further to the to the west but because of the change in elevation there you can see from the contour lines it wasn't really feasible it would have we would have to make the tower taller to keep the same coverage objectives so that was why we stuck there i mean that and the setbacks were basically meant that sort of had to be in the middle of that area towards the back you can see sort of close up of the of the plan you can see that there will be you know the tower in the middle with the with the antenna as towards the top left of the compound you'll see that there is going to be a generator the generator  cycles on about once every two weeks usually on a monday during weekdays and it runs for about twenty minutes so it's on noise impact is really pretty pretty low it would be on it would be running full time if there was a prolonged power outage to ensure continuity of service and then the rest of the compound will just be a gravel gravel base along with it being a gravel access road here's a sort of preliminary landscaping that we had designed this is a number of i think it was our revive that was specified to surround the compound there will be a six foot chain link fence with privacy  slots so that people can't really see enter animals and don't go home and there will be the landscaping around it that will be shielding it as noted in the staff report they called for additional  native screening in the landscaping plan and we're happy to to buy that and we all as the skies later will be working further and developing the landscape plan so here's the elevation you can see that it's you know has the fake pine branches on there the actual density of the branches can be adjusted to match whatever the surrounding foliage is so sometimes like  trees they make it really dense but then you know that doesn't really match with like the kinds of pine trees so we would suggest that whatever whatever density of foliage they go for match the trees that are going to be planted nearby to screen it the other issues this is a sixty five feet and this was deemed to be the minimum that we could get away with in this location to still meet our coverage in capacity objectives initially we to address their concerns about visual impact we went back to the drawing board and realized that we could get away with sixty five it wouldn't the coverage wouldn't be as good as we would have gotten from a ninety five but we were we'd rather have  the community happy rather than have no tower so that's why it's sixty five now here's a photo simulation of what the tower would look like directly in front of it from this depiction doesn't show any of the trees that we've discussed with the county more in the next slide that this is the sort of the view plane in which it's most prominent and sort of does nakedly standing there so planting the trees on either side of them in sort of a natural random formation around them am cory shafer on my network performance engineer a for verizon wireless so today i'm just going to be talking about the technical needs in that the reason why and why we need to build the cell site so if you see here this is the existing coverage coming from our which is pretty far away you can see the green areas are mostly good coverage but there are quite a few blue and darker blue areas in all the terrain down by the proposed site towers and such a large area that it's covering this is our poorest performing cell site out of hundreds statewide so we really need this for my coverage and a capacity perspective this is also not only has the highest in any sector and the state it has some of the slowest throughput so people try to use their phone and they don't get the network speeds to do those things they need to do  so this is the proposed site coverage so you can see it's zoomed in a tiny bit but the area where we have solid red yellow reliable in building coverage is expanded  also the the most important part of this is that that entire area covered by this will be taken all those years or be taken off the existing site so it will improve coverage for users in this area but also the very large number of users that are already site getting them off of that cell site will help it perform better of what we call signal to noise ratio and that's basically the quality of the signal so it where the signal is read you have fast and reliable service without dropping calls and you can understand what people are saying when you point lots of cell sites  to and area they actually interfere with each other and the places where those cells i tand off have low signal quality so we have degraded service and low quality so this is just a kind of explain why do we need to be close to the users because it's commonly brought up why don't you move it two miles away if you move it two miles away the signal doesn't degrade as it gets to the customer so it doesn't work for them there and it also results in this poor signal quality which i'm trying to show visually here obviously very important for our customers just for the normal services that they use calling non emergency calls and broadband services so we get asked a lot about compliance but we comply with all  the most common question we get are related to exposure so the f c c has very strict technical requirements for what they call m p e maximum permissible exposure and we have strict requirements that we have to fall guidelines we have to fall within in order to build a site and maintain our license so if we were to violate the power settings if we were to build a cell site too close to your users where the general population can get we'd be jeopardizing our license which is the soul of the sole source of our business so we treat compliance of arisan extremely seriously now we always comply with all the f c c requirements  also for certain cell sites most of this mostly happens at rooftops where there are users closer to the antenna as we employ a third party technical agencies to go on actually measure to make sure that we're in compliance to make sure that we would never find out about half of a lack of compliance from the f c c we always send our own third party to go out and do that so yeah and then just to talk about you know broadband services how important these are to the community both a huge number of people there was a report recently that showed more people were interested in having broadband service good wireless service at their house than the quality of the school i personally would not agree with that but their phones are very important to them as you can tell so bringing broadband to the community allows people to start businesses allows them to do you know much more creative things if they have the service at where they live and where they work so if you guys have any questions about what broadband services are please let me know that this would support regular voice calling text messaging all data services that you have sent to in addition to the nine one one emergency certain notification services for tsunami and all the emergency area service service i think that covers the technical aspect of having questions and test them afterwards as well areas with the most dropped calls and with the proposed additional sirens that could be added to the edge of the area could greatly enhance the public safety infrastructure in this area even for people who may have enough coverage to say for example place a phone call if they don't have any one of the they can call or they don't speak english and they you know they know the second we will call and get directions but without you know i'm data or g p s to use their phone to you know pull google maps to point them in the right direction or i'm you know let them know they're taking the wrong trail they're not really going to know where to go so that's just one of the added benefits of the public safety side and that we have here one final in that we have some statistics about how how much people are using their phones in particular the demand for data has just been rising through and through the roof  you know i i i think like a lot of people don't do a lot of high data activity on my phone other than like sending pictures of my cat to my friends and family but you know a lot of people especially younger people they do use you know really like they watch videos on you tube and do the kinds of things that actually drain away from the ability of everyone to use data it's really sort of a finite resource coming out of i didn't come here for this item but but just find it interesting to learn about this and can attest that when i'm out there in the haiku area i calls drop quite often so there's there's definitely a need for this and i hope i  hope that others see the need for this but i do want to point out that there are before you for a state special use permit because this is in the agricultural district and they have to get this permit to allow this used to take place in the agricultural district the evaluation that you're going to perform isn't whether or not there is a need or whether the you should favor verizon over eighteen t s or sprint cell towers but what is the impact of this on the show rounding properties just as you  use that same criteria to evaluate the short term reynolds that we have here and we don't see an audience of people concerned about this this tower and the impact that it would that would make directly to them and i'm here just as a member of the public to say i think it would make a positive impact for me so i would urge you to pass this thank you  don't want to put the police communications fire communications the a mass communications at risk so please make sure you do insist on be with the border and ok i understand the slight better than i do have a question for the director though this invoking of the shot clock from the california permit streamlining act and the planner said this actually wouldn't be before us had they they develop regulations that say while they can require discretionary permits they have a limited amount of time in order to get those those applications in front of decision makers otherwise  so there's a requirement that it be delayed but if the process if it was if it was our normal process it probably would have taken a couple months comes up so then just see i thought i heard you say your presentation that you're in vocation of the shot clock or a wasn't to hurry the department so then what was your intent i think i said it was not meant to abbreviate there i review or two and there would be less collaboration work and a discussion of the matter with the department if it was intended to and this is corey shafer on my network performance engineer for horizon so it's my understanding that civil defense has their own way to signal the sirens to turn them on and they use the verizon wireless network as a backup for that  so if the siren was malfunctioning that would have nothing to do with our network our network as a backup way to connect to those sirens is my understanding so to trigger the siren if there is a tsunami you have to tell the siren to turn on you can and that's communicated to the the bright colors aren't great on here but there are the red and orange are going to be very reliable coverage where it's going to work even if you go inside a building the bright green should work well outside and sometimes inside and when you get into the blue  it's iffy outside and not going to work inside so it's you know it's a it all it all depends on the structures around you the amount of trees around you those all those lines you see where do you see like a dark blue line that's a valley where the the signal can't get into the valley so this is done with a computer that you put in the antenna design and then on a power how high it's going to be and it simulates how the coverage will be because we know the that you have a generator others will have commercial power and ninety nine hopefully a hundred percent of the time the commercial power will be operating and will have no use for the generator of the generator has a routine run every two or three weeks to make sure it's still running because you don't want to test it the day the power goes out so if it had a fault on one of those routine runs we'd get it repaired so it was ready in the event that the commercial power did go out but it will be a commercial power  generator on we have a generator contractor that would fill it up regularly based on the amount that it's run and it has gauges and we can communicate with it and figure out stuff like that  find that out for you and get you an answer it will push coverage down on a highway but as you can see nowhere near so nothing in the white area nothing in the area that is correct yet the map is going to be pretty accurate with regard  highway from a wireless perspective would require hundreds and hundreds of nodes and a price tag and probably fifty hundred million dollars range up you know we'd love to do it  and maybe then the network of the future will have coverage on the on a highway it is a very challenging area because of the terrain and the inability so if you have like a mountain in mountainous terrain like that if you can get away from it and point back about the location of the radiation coming out of the systems in proximity to people absolutely i have no problems with this particular location because it's in the middle of a pasture absolutely concerned when i see it  say that that's a great question so antennas that we use directional antennas almost six most of the time we use six an eight foot antenna so on an eight foot antenna at seven hundred megahertz our primary frequency here the we call the vertical beamwidth would be about eight degrees that's where the power is you know if the power going out is sixty watts about four degrees down and four degrees up so eight degrees beamwidth you'll have at those points the sixty degree the sixty watts of power will be at thirty watts and as you as you move out that ten a pattern gets constricted so we we send the vast majority the energy straight out because that's where the users are out in front of us you know the cell site goes for half a mile or miles so we want to focus the coverage out that way very little of the energy goes down so that's the primary reason why so as a general rule of thumb about every foot of space you go below the antenna is equivalent to about ten feet of space in front of it so if you were five feet below an antenna it be about equivalent to be about fifty feet in front of it just as a rule of thumb because of the way a telecom worker so i'm up on these rooftops all the time and i wear our monitoring device it would go off when i hit that hundred percent level where the f c c says this is not safe our network all modern wireless networks are quite low power we want to be as close to the users as possible so it works well and the the phones are so small the batteries are so small that they're low power and you need to communicate both ways you can't send a really strong signal out because this thing needs to get the same signal back so it can't be much more powerful than this essentially so as a rule of thumb a couple meters is is safe but it all depends on the type of antenna the amount of power so those specifics the exact antenna gain  antenna the power into that antenna are all designed site by site and when we do a rooftop build we model the energy that will come out of there and we make sure it's safe anywhere we're above the f c c requirements we physically have to put up barriers and then so we do that as a simulation before and then afterwards we pay a third party to go back out and ensure the barriers are in the right spots so we make sure that the simulation matches the real world the stuff you know r f seems complicated to people but we've you know electrons in years have been dealing with this stuff for over one hundred years so it's complicated but it's not rocket science so we can figure out where that area is very reliably  and if there were ever a situation where you didn't we basically don't have situations where the bill doesn't match the simulation if we did we'd have to you know make adjustments to the power or take the site down but luckily our engineer for the state of hawaii you have two questions for your first question is what phone do you have i'm required by my company to carry an i phone i like all phones  its power or we actually what's the thinking behind that yeah we actually try to be more robust than that so we have four hours of on site battery backup because when the electricity goes out the generator can't kick on fast enough to keep the c power plant running so we have batteries there that will last us about four hours that would also give us time in the rare event that our you know bi weekly generator tank didn't catch a generator problem and we generated and take on we get four hours to get out there so we do have portable generators that we can cart out and event that something like that happen if that once a commercial power goes out in the batteries the generator kicks on it should have enough fuel for a few days and we have priority fueling contracts with  vendors on island who can basically in event of an emergency we'll get fuel before a lot of other folks because we've paid in advance for those fueling contracts so we have people that are designated to go around the island and refill the generators during those emergencies so hopefully what happened with katrina won't happen here if there's a are filler you guys will hopefully get to keep on keeping those antennas up and as long as we have a little slower plug and we can see those things yeah absolutely yeah yeah the power is it tends to not be the biggest problem when it comes to emergencies or you know situ emergency it's usually situations what we tend to have happen a little more often is the connection to the cell site can go down so if a tree falls on a piece of fiber optic cable even though the cell site has power if it doesn't also have a connection back to our switch that can be a problem in itself and mr castro the generator is there a   that transition voltage isn't fast enough that they keep the equipment running that's why we have the batteries so the bridges the trees were located i think on a different person and we couldn't have it be closer to the trees without getting into the setbacks the property line construction and i'd like to go over a few of those major project specific conditions with you at this time if that's ok we spoke earlier about mitigating the visual impact of the intent of and that's going to start with to camouflage of the pine tree pine tree camouflage and number eight on the project specific conditions is the economy of a landscape in irrigation screenplay and should be submitted with the preliminary compliance or poor and the purpose of the plan is to mitigate the visual impact the sixty five foot tower from the view plane of adjacent neighbors and from the view plane a scene from cuckoo road as represented by the applicant said plans to show a minimum of seven field stock size cook island pines in a grove planting staggering cluster of sufficient size and growth characteristics so as to obscure the perimeter chain link fence and the sixty five foot tower from view within three years of being planted with temporary geisha until the trees are established which would be ninety days after being installed the department show landscape planting ninety days after being installed landscape plants should be maintained in a healthy and thriving condition for the life of the project upon the terminations of the tower the use of the subject property will be returned to its original condition including the removal of the tower and all associated equipment as represented by the applicant the property owner can decide whether or not the trees and other landscaping will remain on site if the property owner decides that the trees are to remain in the property owner assume full responsibility of the trees and if the property owner decides to have the trees removed the apple can remove the trees by standard level cut and stump growing the procedures with back number fourteen of the project specific condition states the department of land and natural resources state historic preservation division should be notified via facsimile are upon the onset and completion of the proposed undertaking number fifteen states that in the event of historic resources including human skeletal remains structure remains cultural deposits or lava tubes identified during construction activities all work shall cease in the immediate vicinity of the fine the historic preservation division that we can show me the recommendations on the best practice guide as it relates to reducing interference with the money county public safety radio system as recommended by the federal communications comm and finally number twenty four the project specific conditions is that as represented by the applicant the resident of the dwelling located on the property should be provided written notice of the monthly maintenance inspections or any work on the tower associated equipment at least civil fines for violations of typos twelve fourteen sixteen nineteen and twenty of the are there any further questions for the department this time on the last one you read ask if two weeks notice to appear the power to do that there is scheduled monthly visits to upkeep of the generator and so we're recommending that they give the lease  or the owner whoever staying in the property written notice two weeks prior to that visit so they don't show up on site i guess my question is if there's a problem with the power of the service they're going to have to wait two change this condition you can so that's clear but in a merge into the situation i would think they would have immediate access and i would that under the terms of the lease with the landowner it spells out those kinds of access issues so we put it on the terms of access are explicitly addressed in the lease both for emergency and for routine maintenance  and other not for others i i'm unfamiliar with this lease in particular but typically for emergency there's no there's no notice but for like if they were going to do any modification something where they'd be there for more than an hour then they would give notice to approve the department's recommendation but amending condition twenty four to words it's instead of it saying at least two weeks prior i think it just say as per the lease agreement discussion i assume that if i did make a motion to approve as recommend date as recommended but with the change of instead of at least two weeks prior say as per the lease so we planning program administrators here today also as this project commenced in november of last year and i happened to be and tokyo and consequently had no idea that we would be hearing it now in february however clinton is here to answer questions as well as i am i'm going to provide a brief overview of why we're here again today and the applicant john dunbar of the maui adventure bill of will be doing a presentation so that everyone will be up to date and then they'll be public testimony and we'll be discussing this project just points of matter the first public hearing on this project was held on november seventh of two thousand and sixteen that date start the clock running of hundred twenty days so we are at the limit today folks so this today we really if a decision cannot be made today as it has been deferred twice on the seventh of november on the twenty second of november should this decision today be deferred due to lack of an ability to get an affirmative or negative vote of five people then one hundred twenty days will expire and the permit will be deemed approved it so that being the case and the project that we have before us today is a request from john dunbar for a bed and breakfast home permit and a state land use commission specially used then so we have two kinds of permits we're going to be talking about today the first is the b and b and the trigger for the public hearing for the b and b is that there is one b and b within five hundred feet so this is different from the short in which there could be two within five hundred feet to be in the last bill has after if there is more than one within five hundred feet and the planning commission will hear this side so that's the trigger for the b and b hearings the second is that we're in a and you're very familiar that with any bed and breakfast or short term home an egg requires a state land use commission special use permit just to know the applicant does have an approved farm plan farm plan two thousand and sixteen double zero two seven it was approved and mr your sheet myself and a representative from ziad did go out to the property on october seventeenth two thousand and sixteen to look over the property try to get a sense of what was going on there the applicant is requesting approval of a five bedroom b and b mr dunbar has agreed to grant is being be a guest rooms however no more than for  one time of course because he has to be on property during the time that it is operating as of course i mentioned state land use district is a it is outside of any growth boundaries of the lots in general there are currently are thirty eight permitted b n b homes in the region out of a total cap possible of eighty eight the immediate area around this applicant does not have any approved short term melanomas however but there is one bed and breakfast operation adjacent to the criteria for review of the bed and breakfast are outlined in the staff report from page eight to page twelve it's important that we look at for these being the number and distance of the subject parcel to other permitted being the homes number and substance of protests for the b and b home application balanced with the letters of support there have been letters that have been written by a number of neighbors expressing their concern i believe there is some of these ladies and gentlemen are in the audience today existing or past complaints about rental operations on the property adherents with government requirements and so we look at this in the  situation and that will be your mission today to staff and the applicant how they can successfully operate such an operation second off the state land use commission's special perm to give for the members good afternoon director chair and members of this commission and to the honors that have come with me on this matter thank you very much for your patience with the last two hearings and time spent here on this  for the sake of mr castro who was not at the last hearing i'd like to go over this and also to reiterate my position with regard to the application and hopefully emphasize my status as  a person competent to run the b and b i would like to say briefly really quickly believe it was the last hearing a prior to that the first hearing it was an issue brought up and i certainly wanted to ensure that mr hudson understands that i had no time i wanted to give him the sense that i do not respect police officers or that i have a problem with that i am i'm very supportive they've been central to the community and i have actually supported officers with  duty opportunities and as mr donohue have made some criticism but in the proper venue at the police commission meeting i believe with mr don he was there also so i just wanted to clear the air on that and ensure that you i might start with giving you an idea on the context of this with respect to the name now he adventure below it is an opportunity for people to experience not just pleasant accommodations in a country in a residential ag area but to the opportunity to participate in some of the activities that are available on the island and doing referrals to those to give these local operators business and at the same time actually extend their stay which they wouldn't necessarily financially be able to do that in a hotel so home sharing i think worldwide has become a very acceptable in promising means of giving people from all walks of life in neighborhoods in culture is an opportunity to share in our dicey really seem to hit the point in the last two presentations with his support of the b and b and i appreciate the other members in their comments to get to a point where we can have an understanding of where i am and where you might be with us and if you have any questions of course at any time during this please let me know but i think the important thing is the catch all the safety valve so if there are some issues with regard to neighbors and there are i know that and believe me please i trying to accommodate the neighbors the best as possible and in fact i must add the cabbie up there with with the b and b operation the property will improve in appearance i've had a lot responsibilities they are not just my own with the property but taking care of people and i have long term there and i continue i will continue to have long term and that would support the idea that you can have both b and b and long term in the same and have the interaction between them but in terms of accommodating the concerns of the individuals one was brought up was cars parked in the neighborhood and across the street from one of the neighbors who's been my neighbor for over twenty years and that will actually disappear because you'll see in the plan that the parking is basically out of sight of that property so all the cars that are in front of that property would certainly be moved there's another issue was brought up is a boat this on the property doesn't belong to me at the brawns two gentlemen you'll see in one of the submissions from the neighbor that there was some remark that he has cancer please i want to correct that i never said that i don't believe he does hopefully he doesn't he's an older gentleman i took his  and a couple years ago with the understanding that he would remove it or sell it the sale is pending on it so that is one of the issues that was brought up and it may be a site to people but i've even proposed at one point using that as a reference but ok this is one of the betters that came in prior to the last hearing of number twenty second this is my next door neighbor mr aachen aka he's supportive of this he's seen a lot come and go in the neighborhood i believe he was one of the first property owners has believed he had eight children there and many grandchildren living there also so there are a lot of young people in the neighborhood and i've known the family for the whole time i've been there twenty eight years and so he has his support about it as is my next door neighbor mr nelson and i inserted these last time because there was some remark made about my being dishonorably discharged i can assure you that the records make it clear that i was was honorably discharged and there was some other issues brought up and again i'm sensitive to the neighbors it's important i don't want to live in a neighborhood where people are i'm sure nobody does that people feel resentment toward them and i think i've demonstrated that the majority with the exception of a few people that have some matters of concern that i i think i hope i've addressed but will see  cannot afford to stay at a hotel so they go out in the community and they're here for a longer period of time there's more spending and there's more interaction with the community and i think it's a wonderful opportunity for maui to have people who are culturally immersed with them for longer periods of time and  again this also emphasizes what i'm talking about the commitment the professionalism the managerial skills and flexibility which i believe i have with regard to this operation we have had on the form continuous activities i have a banana farm it was visited by the maui planners and i produce dehydrated bananas and those are sent out primarily to friends in the mainland but i've been doing this for many many years  and we do the fresh frozen dehydrated and eventually would like to have permission from the health department to provide smoothies for the guests using the bananas from the farm we also feel that this is an opportunity for people to learn about ag in maui in hawaii and what's going on here you heard crystal's testimony this morning i have to say i know her personally and her brother there but they're definitely dedicated farmers and her dad has a news fantastic and this is where i'd like to interject that beyond my participation in farmer markets and in selling my produce there i've spent many hours at the farmer's market selling bananas and dehydrated bananas and the  concern is for most people to go up there you get up at four or five in the morning and go up there and spend many hours for a couple hundred dollars and sometimes it's not worth your time and it's one day actually one morning hour out of the week that they're able to to to bring this up with such great enthusiasm and love for their products and really dedicate some are worn out i've seen and they've been doing this for so many years that i took the initiative a couple years ago to speak with some property owners concerning use of their land even a lease if it could be obtained to open a farmers market have ten acres or more and i had some success with one property owner and i can even give you his name paul  hundred fifty acres on that side and spoke with him about utilizing the land at least ten acres of it for farmer's market would provide parking for all the people going to it as we know it's a wonderful market upcountry but it's on four acres it's in a parking lot my concept would include the opportunity for people to participate in each of the commercial kitchen where they could have their goods for five days a week or even seven days a week and this is something that should really be looked at in  and here's the banana patch five hundred plus it takes a lot of maintenance telling you with that and then harvesting them cleaning them in the hydrating freezing them this is one of the permit exempt structures on the property that's been used for banana processing it doesn't have electricity or water yet but we hope to go through that legal process to get it so that it can be done with bananas as many people know here and coconuts rats can accumulate they they nest up in the banana plant so anything that can be and it's actually proven that it's sustainable buildings that are now using bamboo and some come from vietnam but we have ample here now to work for that and i've shown teaching you how to use the bamboo for lean tos and survival and that sort of thing but for at least several different varieties and it's amazing to see the difference of them and how they roll over time and one gentleman has told us that's the crop for mowing was many of a couple of plants if you can and the coconut trees you met the young lady and her mother are still on the property and they're doing quite well and with the healing process and then use the coconuts for their sustenance a lot of what's growing this is growing dramatically discarding is now about three and again back to the the the land owners in this neighborhood there are a few new owners but generally people have been there for quite some time and there's limited agricultural use it's more in some regard residential and people are tending to their families and really for some people two acres is not a lot to do the farming operation but some of them do use it for that this is the field which i refer to is designated as the parking area or the  street we rarely used to have five years was built to steve but there is parking beyond those cylinders and that's what all changed with the b and b operation this is when it's up up in shape and as we was mentioned during the  r presentation the rain has been horrendous so getting a tractor out annoying has been very very tough so these are some views of the property in different angles  seventeen years and there's one of those the indian isee entry to it so as you can see another thing about this particular unit is it's quite secluded and people like to be able to feel a home away from home and where you can find  t in a hotel environment it's something you can get with a b and b in in the privacy it goes throughout and this is really not visible to any of the neighbors other than the roof painted is going to be great again we've heard that before so many of it's all going to be repainted and a new roof on it and you know with the kind of income people have things have to be done piecemeal one step to know this is an older structure this is the cottage i also built this put the floor in and some stuff has to be stamped sanded again but it's a lot of upkeep of people like old structures laws are kept clean and in good order and affected had a neighbor stay in there for different reasons but they stayed overnight and there's a bathroom this is another room inside the house where there are one two three rooms and then outside attached room that stay there and there were two kids are now seven years old but the other part of it is they're veteran friends of mine and i've indicated that i would like to have some veterans come over there and i recently had someone say they would support that idea that tunes coming for a vacation and even kids some of the kids from the deceased father so to speak and i have fun taking people out on adventures even to other islands in the p these are some of the reviews that have come forward from those time that i was in the spin well over a year now so i just wanted to bring this up and show that things can operate in a church the committee to look hopes were to either painted but now with the pending sale you know mama's fish house has a couple of those so they don't look so bad when they're dressed up and this is again the front property property where the parking has been much easier for the long term tenants and i have those names would like to have those people long term i know that was an issue some of them look like real cars people come and visit and they stay for the day or overnight to visit taun and i don't see any problem component and animals planning commission needs to see the possible legal ramifications of this particular person were to be legally operating has been breakfast the cistercian says have accelerated since the last hearing as a mail box has been vandalized are ohana for arised on christmas eve and just three days ago one of our laying hens was killed by a dog owned by one of the construction workers the remodelling existing b m b a two twelve alcool way resulting in a citation to him by the responding animal control officer there would be more transit activity will continue to increase in terrorizing of the that very beginning of your testimony i have made a comment are wasn't sure what it was it was a question i said that i asked if i heard that the property have been inspected i was wondering if that was verified by the commission the property had been inspected guarding his tax statements income as it does say on the website have never met mr dunbar before in fact i don't know what he looked like until today and so i also think that that you know in past communities what happens when someone is interested in doing something like this of a magnitude is they have sometimes a conversation with neighbors first but i don't know this neighbor although he is closest to me your own closest to him in proximity you know i think about  that when school lets out there are very little kids walking down the middle of the street and on the side because there are no sidewalks like little ducks you know everybody in the community knows what time the kids everybody who lives there knows who has a deaf cat you know everybody you know is you know who rides their horses up and down the street to exercise them and my concern is just in the idea of a five bedroom and a street of eighteen houses that is potentially two people in each bedroom and that's ten possibly ten people and that's five cars of not long term property about fourteen years ago i had to really understand what it meant to live on this street because it's a very quiet cul de sac street with two shorter cul de sac streets so you know you have to really take care so my concern you know is really about the community and that this particular size and magnitude and the position of it is more than the community can bear  you know also i was surprised to hear it just now in testimony that there are also long term possibly long term tenants in addition to the vacation rental so i'm not quite sure i think my letter speaks for itself in terms of my concerns it is hard to believe that this property has been inspected there has been an abandoned both on the front for a long time and various other things but i think that you know obviously this isn't a farm we've seen farmers today i don't have any i don't have a philosophical issue with rentals long term rentals vacation rentals i simply ask you to consider th these things are not secluded and can't be the main structures can be seen from the street i am the closest physical proximity neighbor and in the past there have been a lot of issues  i would certainly not want to revisit that again but again my biggest concern is for the community and so i ask you to consider it in terms of how small this community is how large this b and b would be and the context of this community and their responsibility for our community it's also the last thing is you know i'm i'm not political i don't know anything about politics and i didn't realise what i had originally talked to the planner i said because i was not here you know i just got here and i said ok so the first time the hearing to have a consensus on the second time it didn't have a consensus so does this just go on and on you know forever and he said no if there isn't a consensus on the third time it just happens you know that seems counterintuitive to me if there isn't a consensus that means there's a problem but if this is the way it is and this is where we're at i ask you to please consider that the fate of our community is in your hands and thank you very much any for about a year and then i come back every year for a month to two months to do work on the property and just retired and moved here a month ago but i bet on my peace quiet and tranquility something i haven't been privy to for twenty years are we to be denied a ball right of the pursuit of happiness and peace i would like to eliminate an the septa fuge on this matter most to dunbar is not a farmer he does not have a farm promoting health and education as he professes he has only three palm trees i myself have over purpose for operating a b m v is pure greed for mr dunbar the noise traffic and congestion of a five bedroom b m b next two or three bedroom b and b will change the dynamics of the neighborhood and the future of my small go that these properties that directly across from my property my whole property from one end to the other is across the street from to bring cation rentals or b i already experienced noice living directly across the street from him as recently as two weeks ago i'm awake in the night with a rival's trunk spinning closed and opened and shut loud talking and laughing people generally having a good time mr astrue when they arrive in paradise i submitted current protocols of john virus property that i took just a couple of weeks ago these photos are just a glimpse of the maintain and rundown property that neighbors are forced to look at every day not only is  detrimental as a property values it also harbors and want to pass and disease carrying rats a place to reproduce his banana patch a small i came from the bananas as i had an account mauling a banana patch farm twenty five years ago i also gave him the three coconut palms because he had no landscaping the apparent abandoned cheering boat has been parked in the street for over eight years it has been tagged by a maori police department months ago and has now been removed when addressing the move by the county who came by on three different occasions mr dunbar celebrated by putting flags all around the boat as in the flags at a put on used car lots and proceeded to give  mr dunbar says he's sensitive to his neighbors but he always gives me the finger and uses that i'm becoming language towards me as he has since i've lived there why is this even being considered the majority of property on hasn't tenants in our community we are outraged that this b m b is even considered in lieu of the fact that mary police department opposes the issue of a permit i humbly ask commission to consider his neighbors in the future of arkansas our community and might go fly many of the kids come over to pet the code send they also come over to see the chickens i have spoken with many mothers and i have asked them to write a letter these are tenants they don't want to get involved they don't want to stir up trouble but they're not in favor of a b and b that's all i have to say thank you for your time and energy i hope you all had a good holiday and merry christmas and a happy new comments of of the neighbors to be somewhat curious because here for a legend this property the size of this property does not seem to impinge on neighbors zones of privacy or or or basis i have seen the guests on the property and have spent time in both of the structures and find them to be continually under improvement and repair plus with the years that i've known mr dunbar and observed this property it has been under continuous improvement and and improvement in many ways both on the exterior and the interior of the buildings i've met with the guests and talk to them and they are happy to be in an area that is in the country and surrounded by plants grow both the commercial side of growing and this neighborhood seems to be expansive where the bodies of the property are already even see the buildings that are on the property together from one building it's hard to see the other so the physical layout of mr dunbar's property seems to militate against any suggestions of noise or confusion with neighbors and as far as my discussions with the people who live there they seem to be the tour people of education and of good standing in life who become interested not to party or to make noise but to really enjoy the beauty of knowledge while rural atmosphere and the time that they spend their most guests are gone and and enjoy touring the island come back to the bed and breakfast for the evening and for their for their sleeping accommodations as far as complaints from neighbors i have the only complain have received from a neighbor was from this lady here about my testimony here last time where she came into the parking lot and told me that for an old man i should not have lied about they had no property that many times reporter friend had to pull her away from me because of her agitated condition behavior otherwise i just wanted to let you know that people have agendas when they testify and if they have they have an interest  talk to some of the people that stay there yes or have winds that winds like just as of recently i mean was the last time that you you kind of hung out with him and talked to these these people that stayed there i would say was it has been several months because i'm a very busy individual myself i'm a practicing lawyer here in maui and my weekends are open and that's when the time i spend visiting with john and and having it exposure to his guests but you say we it's been within the last couple of months that yes structure there and i identified that is one of the permit exempt structures that the office says it was inspected when actually four or five people come out i showed them walking through that so that it's so you want  i made an effort during the rains to get it moved with the truck and get it back onto my property and the issue again to reiterate is that the trailer is rusted on in trailers for boats are very expensive for five thousand looked at it and the police department i was very respectful with the police when they came i've always commended police officers for their work and professionalism when the opportunity arises and this was one instance where they came they got a call and they said it was  us call and so i don't know who to even go and approach and say where the boat you know is what the situation is and i didn't i've never met miss some bronco before so i don't quite i took this photo yes of the bo it seemed like the police department put on a sticker yes abandon it correct contact the police the pot but absolute let them know that this particular property should be removed from the all property no i never contacted them i don't know so the neighbor did i don't know who is anonymous but yes i had contact with the police and the abandoned vehicles department and the the engineering department to verify where the property line was and spoke with mr good and got it all clarified so it's on my property and it's there any issue with it is not anything to do with it being an illegal on the road but the reason why i asked that question yes was originally you had put on my statement the neighbors together and so forth and it seemed like this particular neighborhood is very much concerned about this this someone i never met or she hasn't been around and i've spoken with her tenants and i've asked them questions about the letter and they knew nothing about it and had no objection to me all the tenets of mr broad you didn't pursue it with the police department to get it removed haps absolutely did  pursue to have it removed and all this would have been a type private cotto company that is contracted by abandoned vehicles apartment and they come to remove it they did come and i said ok hold off i'll get it off the street if it's on if it's in a place it needs to be so i moved it back on to my property to do was extended out into the ten foot joan ok thank you i have  know i have a question for her the permit in question has came up the few times how many permit it structures are on the property and how many permit exam which i'm assuming means there are two hundred square feet or i was there on saturday night or not with my good self and not with your stuff no i've been quite busy in fact the properties been prepared for the inspection and unfortunately it was dr didn't show up so that's the next step which w comply with the conditions there but in terms of marketing my products i haven't done that but the products are being made the frozen bananas than to hide your bananas and i have many people that i send those to and i give them to on the property locations and coconut and there's a lot there's a little recoil and then there's the big vegetable farms and kamani trees which are growing wonderfully now and and and oranges are just so it's all spread out here in  area where they can expand and increase the numbers of i was kind of following this kind of selling question of farming situation right so your total plan itself or the farm is basically by that pretty much all i've been in a writer and that's the emphasis on it and there were some comments earlier about not doing it i have an entire i can provide to the planning part in the whole plan this can work out for a year  banana processing facility that young people would be able to participate in all the way to the packaging and know what it's like a cottage industry is like to process agricultural fruit on the farm it's a wonderful opportunity for all the way from the harvesting cleaning and processing the bananas to the hydrating them and taking them out putting packages so that's something i've developed over the years in addition to my efforts in fact i met with the property owner in san francisco in half a size the importance of  farmer's market in maui and one that operates more than just in the morning and it has an opportunity for people to have a commercial kitchen on it i've spoken with the health department what the requirements are so with their land the operation could go into effect in a month and have people being able to sell their produce and encouraging ag and i appreciate that this commission does put emphasis on ag use and put your proposal is your farmers flock that is not on your property is no of projection for income on the banana is such a primary product that you have it's made it's minimal it's two acres it says you twenty five percent i just found that i'm just i'm just saying that based upon the fact that this is a farming community community yes how much of it do you expect to generate from this product itself well if the proposed b and b operation continues  i'm able to get also in conjunction with the help permit we could make banana bread and smoothies from one store process that requires that they help from it but even raul there are a lot consumed on the property just with the long term so you know today we've had to farms come before us that i even mentioned on the record have set the bar however before us now is someone that has an approved farm plan you know we can get into you know do they meet the same bar or not for the sake of making our decision is it is that threshold enough to say they've got a farm planned there now farm check that off the then i think we're going to frame it on on what your decision making right here is because i mean if you look at your criteria for a bed and breakfast required to preserve our group for agricultural use so if that doesn't help you just let me know i guess it so that now i've got a question for excuse me we're looking in the in the application itself one of the checklists items with a checklist of what needs to be submitted for a bed and breakfast that if you're in the state agricultural and when she's done and has done and you look on page three of your court and it says second paragraph down the property hasn't implemented form plan and gives the number that was approved by zoning in a month and when we say something is implemented that means we have gone out and inspected it make sure it has been implemented involves a total area of forty nine thousand square feet for a lot coverage of fifty five point nine almost fifty six percent of  meeting their requirement when implemented form point well according to what we've said the south we can meet so yeah and that's why i guess i just wanted to try to get clarity because as mr zero likes to point out to me sometimes is i need to make decisions that if challenged you know a man or woman in a black robe will have to see why i made those decisions and so i'm trying to just say ok can i use is this discretionary you know can i make a decision based on this you know or not and that's just kind of what i'm trying to wrap my head around and any is one of the question is what happens if we approve one of these permits and not the other way and i know that anyways i'm just i'm sorry that maybe i'm going out another bunny trail that just doesn't really matter but just curious if we split them and one got approved and not the other  first person and he would be both to enable to operate for the for the purposes of the record you would want as state on the record why you believe the application meets the criteria for one of the permits and then also a for the record why it doesn't meet the criteria for the second so i think you would have to really differentiate between the two i guess that's why i was pursuing the farm plan because if it's a bridge where it sounds like the purposeful are requesting this point and breakfast is to generate income rather than correct rather than having it complementary to what the people are coming to see whatever kind of products you have on your farm it's open and i don't think it would be something that would attract a lot of people come to your place unless they just want a friend well there are people that come to the island with with children and would like to have their children learn about the local produce and how it's handled and going to the markets and i know many people go to the market in the get you know inspired to come back and grow their own and i just purchased seeds there on saturday for the for the well as the director said quoting the plan are you meet the minimum requirement  for the bed and breakfast for the reasons stated in the department's report today for the meeting dated since november seventh and november twenty second and then of course today the twenty eighth of march that being said  feb sorry that being said the conditions are standard conditions of the bed and breakfast with the exception of the one i mentioned number eighteen which has required in the applicant to do a full a two thousand and eighteen this is a difference from other b and b permits the department either administratively has the ability to grant from one to three years commission also equally has the ability to grant from one to three years when they so feel that in a specific case that it may or perhaps a higher level of review over that year and in this case because there have been some concerns that apartment would be recommending that this permit would be valid for one year from today with the associated eighteen conditions the second permit would be the land use commission's desh will use permit this one concerns the agricultural operations again we would be requesting a modification and condition number one that would parallel the timing  be good for one year so that would be that the state land use commission as should be should tell feb twenty eighth two thousand and eighteen and with the associated seven conditions importantly that the farm plan would remain implemented during this generation that being said those would be the two recommendations of google for one year for the bed and breakfast and the state land use commission special permit applications complete by the director or to the closing of the public hearing on the application which in this case the public hearing was closed back in november november seventh so if i could yes and so i guess the question that i am posing to myself right now is rather than it just being approved by acclamation is there additional conditions that say the three of us that voted against this could put in there to say ok if it had this then i could approve it you know rather than it because if we don't do anything then it's getting approved just as it sits so is there something that you know say ok if we add something does it become palatable and i don't have the answer in my own brain right now but i'm sort of posing the question to try to come to a resolve rather than just being you know passed because you know we're s motion to approve both permits as stated by the department with the following amendment february twenty eighth next year march march first ok so big march first two thousand and eighteen subject to further time extension by the planning comfortable with the presentation of the structure to be represented as a structure that was defective as far as to concern for the general upkeep and maintenance of the property seem to fish from my perspective of there was a propane tank that was inside of the facility where it shouldn't have been could have exploded  applicant has numerous incidents with the police reflecting all occurrences that happened with tenets that were on the property  that resulted in by us from my perspective that doesn't reflect on a safe environment to invite visitors from wherever that have no knowledge of any of this history o i know he's had honorable service to our country and on on that side you know part of me says that we should give them a break and let him try on the other hand  been so many incidences with the police and with the neighbors that i am uncomfortable with and trusting the safety of visitors in the future that know nothing about the person that's why i find it difficult to support and i'll be voting against bush for their discussion mr and sally yeah i find it kind of ironic that you know i guess the three of us that voted against it i'm now but the maker of the motion for it  d i've said on the record here before that don't let perfect get in the way of really good i don't think that this is really good but it's kind of i feel sort of backed into a corner that this is kind of what i need to do right now i agree with everything that commissioner dani has said that i have a lot of reservations about this however it will be with reluctance that i vote in favor of it just because i feel as though we need to pass this rather than have it be approved by acclamat discussion i'd like to make a play on then my reservations about the permit is is mirrors some of mr hay danis is the safety of the gas stay there even though we're going to go as far as have a home inspector inspect the homes i'm concerned whether the septic system cess pool electrical connections the water lines whether there's added water whether it's possible water was the correct lines you know there's a lot of things that go into a building permit then just the structure itself it's a triggers a lot of other issues cesspools are no longer required just the sheer make up of it makes me very uncomfortable forecast so i just wanted to add my my comments thank  they have no knowledge of deficiencies they have no knowledge of dangers the main occur on your property that may be obvious to you but not just the somebody that's unfamiliar with proper it's an extremely high level of of that needs to be exercised in order to protect you from liability if anyone gets hurt or injured in the future from my perspective if a navy seal were to be operating my b and b i will feel as comfortable as a teddy bear in somebody's spit i should be be protected from whatever might happen i'm concerned with this particular application because people that have been at the property before have come back they burglarized the property there's been fights you yourself have been involved in assaulting somebody that was in your home hole whether you deserve to have your pragmatic stand in reviewing the comments that you provided to us little things to meet  trigger red flag the fact that you claim in terms of how you present your your comments the fact that you refer to your neighbors as file which i  one of your comments really bob and i guess time will tell whether the commission has made the right decision this particular case  so from that perspective good luck team and that there were no will shall be heard by the commission and not and not allow the director to to do that or no information so they have come up with the information and they would like to present it to the commission  is it possible i still i had two other questions that were put into my head is it still possible to ask those questions of them or is it kind of like that window is closed holdings you can you can ask for the ok so for the record the first question i have is of the current landscape that's there if any of the that current landscape is going to remain as part of their site plan and if i get that you know the seed they go tag certain trees or whatever it is like this one is not you know you leave this one l it is is any of the landscaping going to stay and if they can kind of demarcate that to us the other part is because they talked about drilling down and doing what they called mining there was a couple of the testif that talked about how there's fresh water that goes through there and goes into the bay if they have done any sort of geological study that shows that they know if that's true and where that is so also chair if i could make a motion to amend our commission rules now that the go ahead just procedur even then what you would probably want we would probably want to get from that's discussion is an opportunity for the plan department and the legal side to get together and maybe get you guys some draft language bring them back to you go and then we'll have a discussion and then we'll talk about trying to bring some kind of sample language that you very soon you know kind of going to so we have a direction to start drafting and that will bring that draft back to you and then you can ok