to them and ask them to make that connection you don't give your ip address knowing when to use one of these mobile applications it just happens they recorded they could use it for the sake of the exchange of information between the two parties on that one occasion without having to to record a plus when you when you're applying with a tech you're already there on the internet and you just trigger the use of the application on your used to get the location yes just yet but but i thought uncovering or did gave the location well to that's a difference right i don't think sort of you're on it because you know you still would have to have if you were the police applying to some sort of registry or a list or an index to see ok the number fifty eight c and zones x one where instead you have to go to and once i find that out and over occasion oh the same as when you go to the service provider with an ip address you say oh i know i know where that comes from i go to that provider like sprinter front here or meant to pass cable whatever well yes it's through your do some of that application with respect to location data in carpenter even if you didn't make a call you would stand still could be said i'm a signal that would to post and all they need to do is track the application and go to get the records from it and now we have several different physical locations that that person went to not just the phone calls that he made or what they did while they were on the application have the address of the motel at which he stated which they were able to confirm with when they went there so it's beyond just a generalized what you're connected to it's a more precise and there are date and times associated with each one of those connections so that somebody with a mobile phone could be moving around in different locations and you're going to be able to get those who don't know you know you're on you get the ip address i'm not sure i understand the question you know i assume that there is that there is a way maybe involves going through the telephone company i don't know but a way to know the address of the telephone that was called the number of which shows up on the pen register it just is just one more step on the type of phone we're talking about is really more tuned to a mobile personal it doesn't necessarily involve the use of a telephone number at all it's a direct international i realize that you will you are talking about different references from merely a telephone number right but those references are in your view significant because of where they lead and the need to telephone number in the pen register is significant because of that the service providers actually capturing an ip address where you're making an internet well issue and how can you how can you say that the person who's making the telephone call almost by definition doesn't know who the pen register was and place  but they you know is using the telephone number in the one they were the course of his activities but the person who is using the computer is using the computer in the course of his normal activities he's not or we know that those any more than the that was not part of the evidence here but i can tell the court that i don't view that they are capturing and recording it for posterity i think those are two separate ac any more than you then you know what the telephone company  have five years yet and so why should we decide those this question about when because we've got it we've got to wait until he's actually on supervised release at map point we've got to wait for a probation officer to and fifth amendment rights so why should we decide this in a vacuum before we have an actual case particularly when we know the district court has a continuous power of supervision over wouldn't know that there was one until we understood what our son was being asked what use was being made of the answer i think you are even threatened sanctions are enough to trigger the right and it certainly is here because it's certainly testimonial it's compelled but refusal to answer a question ah we'll all be held against one but if one doesn't answer that you know whatever the answer it is could be mr jevons in a separate criminal case right as against any of those questions is true mission of the treatment not revocation of the supervised release right but then the terminations is the basis for the recreation and that's been more has happened your others have pointed out very much like a phone number and a pen register where you can identify a number and the ip address is critical and so the courts have found this most recently worked out the second circuit that ip address is basically the phone number by which an internet service company provides information to its user and so it's a voluntary request by the user to seek information from the application sanford their public life i and i've used their ip address to communicate with tech and received information from cake that was voluntary on his part the ip address that provided to the government they then had to go find out which internet service provider was assigned that ip address contact that internet service provider find out the company or individual at least that investigation that indicates that he was in fact at the hotel at that time and similarly so that's very different than current because the phone is assigned to the person who's being searched correct and you have this exhaustive and carpenter emphasizes over and over again that the that you see you with c s i was that it was a comprehensive chronicle of a person information that was problematic and carpenter and even if he accessed kick numerous numerous times that the that has never been the buying of of information has never been the basis work and there's no basis to revisit it now the question is whether this particular defendant's lu intellectual functioning somehow provides a basis for the court to with respect to the treatment and then he says that substantially increases the likelihood of revocation and therefore from that combination of things you could say that the contract itself is imposing a burden from the getgo does your be addressed that issue i believe that it is and i think that that the just the issue of whether the assertion of the right would be  the defendant supervised release and and turn it into treatment certainly may be a factor but i think that there are you would have to can you have to speculate as to w answer on the terminations of creep but now i'm talking about the effect of terminations of the treatment come on the trauma of supervised release that's not something you would normally expect to find in the preachment comprende that's something requirement in the sense of resulting in a new criminal charge but it is seen in fact a threat of heavy up or a possibility of heavy  believe that the warning is given in the sense that it is part of the conditions of supervised release which are which the defendant is instructed on so that the defendant is aware of the consequences of failure to complete show how much of a consequence you're at risk of because from the perspective of the person who is subject to the condition if there is a song but i instance when i'm asked the question i have to think gee if i assert my just remember right the response to that question i'm jeopardizing the revocation reaches the due process problem so although it's not automatic as an example i'm giving from a constitutional perspective why is it not just as problematic as well i would say that it's no different to what you're positing is no different in the polygraph context than it is in a simple meeting between the probation officer and t supervisor eat the supervisee has an obligation to answer twice questions truthfully and if they refuse to do so then that could kick off a series of events that could lead to revocation so i think it may be an argument for requiring warnings then in conferences with a probation officer but i'm not sure that it answers a judge question well i suppose it depends on the nature of the one thing that you are that you're proposing because there are warnings and the record is clear on this that the defendant is provided with a warning at the required to take a maintenance polygraph in the initial test time and determined by my c b c clinician and my probation officer i understand it and violations of this contract move result in suspension or terminations from the program are no fifth amendment considerations discussed in the contract there's nothing to minute warning of the nature of the manager given to a person who's taking a polygraph exam they're told to understand this is voluntary on of course it's not because they're compelled to