good evening a hush falls off of the crowd as we have a civil discourse the saving that's what our hope is and that is our plan we're really glad that you took time out of the seedling to share it with us tonight and we will whiteman and then we'll have the pledge of allegiance if you would be able to stand with us at this time please pray with me dear lord we thank you for this day and we think you for a blessing in the privilege is to call holland west michigan home generations of residents  have felt your hand in your providence on this community and we we pray that that continues and we just pray lord tonight as we conduct the business of the city that you would give us clear minds give us clear eyes may we see things as you see them and let that guide our decision making process let it guide the temperament in which we discuss things among each other the lord that we would have our neighbors and our friends in mind as we seek to make the best decisions possible we pray for your continued blessing on the city hall and in those that call home we thank you for those that protect us and keep us we pray these things in jesus name thank you tad will now continue with the reading of the consented gentlemen that is a list of items that at the end of reading those we will work to approve those as a body of items by the council if however one of those items is something that you came here specifically to address then we will get up after and i reads that list for you to come forward give us your name and address and which i them you would like pulled from the consented genda and then we will handle that item in its sequence as it appears in the agenda so ana could you please read that list for us to approve the minutes of the act over two thousand and sixteen regular council meeting  for rehabilitation of a right to give man holes in the sanitary collection system pending approval last a form by the city attorney and to authorize approval a ten percent contingency of sixteen thousand one hundred two associated with these contracts twelve eighty six to declare various items a surplus to be donated auctioned off or sold since they have no longer met how on board a public works department needs i did a twelve a seven to approve a professional service agreement with item twelve eighty eight to approve a contract with vantage point solutions in the total amount of eighty five thousand eight hundred to move forward with broadband infrastructure deployment in the downtown area pending approval asked a form by the city attorney item twelve and seventeen eight to accept and place on first reading of ordinances an amendment to rezone three sixty three sixty three seventy two three seventy six in three eighty was sixteenth street from the sea one neighborhood commercial district to the p u d land unit development district of final adoption for the november second two thousand and sixteen regular council meeting item twelve c one to approve and daimler in waiver of liability agreement with the city of grand rapids in conjunction with disuse about the how and apartment of public safety is motorcycle during a motor officer training problem october nineteenth to november second two thousand and sixteen in exchange the grand rapids waste a permit is waiving the one thousand five hundred dollars fee for one officer in the ten the motor officer training hosted by the grand rapids police department item twelve do you want to accept me for a claim filed against the city to the city's insurance carrier and city attorney for consideration item twelve b two to adopt a resolution approving the sixteen neighborhood enterprise certificates for the washington school project at the south side of eleventh street east a maple i am twelve one point one two approve three tree planting project a twin lakes nursery in the amount of forty nine thousand eight hundred five with funds to be provided from contingencies within the main street reconstruction project budget item twelve four point one to declare a surplus bicycles acquired by the police division with donations to be made to seventy times seven and also listed in property room dot com for disposal and sale i don't point to try to prove the purchase of a fo falcon asphalt recycler and happy trailer at a cost of twenty three thousand eight hundred eleven and to amend the centralized equipment and vehicle maintenance fund budget to facilitate this purchase purchase  five point one to accept a grant in the amount of three hundred dollars from the outer county health department for the u tobacco compliance tax items twelve east six point two to approve or lease renewal with capital equipment l l c for the parking lot seven c as recommended by the downtown development authority subject to city attorney approval east six point three to approve the appointment of christie done to the da board term to expire in two thousand and twenty and film on your p s board term expires twenty december of two thousand and eighteen as recommended by the city manager and i am twelve east six point four two approved use of a sustainability grid as recommended by sustainability committee as  year trial period thank you emma so perhaps one of those items or something you came to particularly addressed tonight if that's the case please come to the podium give us your name and address and which item you would like removed from that list of consent agenda items looks like we're ok in the audience council members is there any item that you would like remove from the consent list twenty five years of the community kitchen that's something that probably not everybody stops and think is so out a quarter of a century is a long time and that represents a lot of dedication and commitment from many people day in day out over all that time and marc tucker is definitely one of the big people involved in all of that and he started at community action house of eck in one thousand nine hundred three as a resource manager and a volunteer coordinator then he became the associate director of community action house back in one thousand nine hundred nine and then the executive director back in two thousand and three it was mark who led the effort to develop the mecca tower resource center which was the first of a three agency resource center afeard in our community he also led the effort to come to start the community action houses general store which is another great idea and he led a community action houses empowerment institute which is a great program that empowers people inspires communities so that they can have access to community abundance and opportunity and a positive development and hope and i've been at their graduations that is a that is a great program that helps people discover what they're good at and be inspired to get be a part of the community and give back and so we wanted to recognize that all of that effort with a proclamation which i will read at this time where is the community kitchen a ministry of western theological seminary and community action house opened its stores in one nine hundred ninety with the purpose of providing hot nutritious meal every day to everyone regardless of their circumstances and where as the community kitchen is not only a place to have basic needs met but also a place for people to come together to foster community and a sense of belonging and support and whereas for the past twenty five years the community kitchen has provided free meals and as to create a safe and welcoming environment year round for those in need of community and food and whereas during those twenty five years local volunteers donors and staff of weston theological seminary and the community action house have work side by side to build the quiet good thing that the community kitchen has a ban from its very start whereas community kitchens cer over seventy five thousand meals per year and provides over one hundred and thirty thousand hours of volunteer service all on the campus of the seminary now i there for nancy de boer mayor of the city of highland and behalf of the city council do hereby honor the community kitchen and this twenty fifth anniversary year and wonder mark if you would come forward to the podium there are so many things that happened by a plea and effectively in the city of holland it is really great when there's an anniversary and it helps us pause and say thank you and i used to sit with you on the parks and rec board way back when and i started to get in touch with what was going on at the community action house and and all that you have done through that and the empowerment institute has been a great way to help people find who they are and how they can be a part of the world and i just appreciate your creativity your dedication your kindness and now you are the leader that inspires such great leaders under he so thank you mark and thank you for all you've done for th thanks like to say thank you to everyone this is obviously a very much a community effort i think you know it's close to three hundred volunteers a year we try to figure out that comes from around twenty five churches in the audience here we have jim who is our cook earl layman who is a graduate of the western some a few years back has been there for twenty four years he organizes the  wonderful to work with the presidents that have been there have fully supported tim brown at this point time and the other person sitting in our audience with us tonight is john boorman who is our social director and salt but we really appreciate the recognition that you're providing to the seminary in i can say on behalf of the people eat there thank you thank you and i think the sensitive way that the facility is set up with people meeting people is just gives people such dignity as they arrive and and are unfolded as w it's a great effort so we have a special order of the day with our public hearings the first one about eight street in columbia avenue snow melt improvements ryan could you talk to us about that that presentation white good evening madam mayor and council members tonight before you are three different snow melt construction assessment action items like to just point out these are  as we've discussed in the past there's two different components to the snow melt program there's an initial one time construction assessment that occurs when we initially construct the improvement  and then on an annual basis after that there's an assessment that goes along with that so these first three items here a b and c cover the construction assessments and i'll be columbia ave i believe we have a a map of these areas what was basically accomplished in getting this construction project took place primarily last year we're bringing it on line this year with the with the new power plant a portion of h street that shaded in the light blue was  melt was added underneath that road as a part of the project and then all of the dark blue sidewalk areas there were also added as part of that a street project the the original assessment roll that was presented back during the hearing of necessity on april fifteenth two thousand and fifteen was two hundred forty eight thousand seven hundred thirty nine dollars  that assessment roll has been reduced slightly as we go to final this out to two hundred forty three thousand seven hundred ten dollars primarily having to do with a change in ownership and how we calculate the assessments with one of the properties in particular so before you tonight is a recommendation to approve a resolution to finalize the role the construction role for that project ok thank you brian so we' to open up for public comments is there anyone in the audience who came to speak to this issue nine well close those public comments and open for discussion with the counsel any comments from we have a visual for night street as well again similar color scheme but this project only dealt with new snow melt improvements on the sidewalk and so again all those areas hearing occurred back in may may for twenty sixteen the original assessment amount was two hundred sixty five thousand three hundred one dollars and fifteen cents that as we go to finalize things that gone up slightly to two hundred sixty seven thousand two hundred five dollars and sixty six having primarily to do with some utility company to manifolds that we had to get around some utilities with so pretty minor overall in the grand scheme of things and again there's a resolution a recommendation to adopt a resolution ok thank you brian so we will open that for public comments as well this is a public hearing any comments we will move and close the public comment period and go open to and moving on the central avenue snow melt improvements brian yes ok my eyes out the the construction assessments here first central avenue this is actually a fairly extensive project  spans two different slides here but again same kind of a color scheme here the green areas where we're existing snow melt not part of the assessment district the blue again  snow melted sidewalk areas associated with the central avenue project one of the things here that's worth pointing out with regard to the construction assessments  when we look at central avenue south of twelfth street that's where the heart of how a donation comes into play there and so i think it's worth noting again those properties on the  side of central avenue south of twelfth street are part of that heart of holland donation with the construction assessments the the original public hearing for this was back to the most recent one there was a couple of hearings there initially the last one took place on june seventeenth twenty fifteen and that's where the heart of how and donate donation was introduced at that r recommendation is to approve the assessment roll finalize the assessment roll for the construction assessments associated with central thank you brian it's a often for another public hearing is there anyone here who came to address that issue around one hundred right now it actually is i'm not being from what i understand not being built right now but when i will be built it would be a brown one hundred dollars a year and but my problem is assessing people that just live on that area because there's going to be a lot of people in the neighborhood that will use that walk just plain walkers joggers people in that complete neighborhood are going to use it they're going to use our approaches because they'll be ice free they'll walk from the street up through here and just  assess the owners on that street i think is is just not fair i know in the wintertime the city snowplows don't really plow the sidewalks very cleanly they're always slippery always leaves a couple of inches of ice and snow on it and it's hard to walk and so people walk in the street in they right now they do use you drive in freeways just to get on  for this project and that's pretty much it ok thank you sir thank you for letting me speak sure absolutely anyone else like to address this issue  thank you well close the public hearing for this part and open for comments from counsel do we have motion we approve move by hook step supported by white men  your comments are very well taken i think i would just like to clarify that this particular item that we're looking at right here the dress is only the construction costs in other words the cost of putting the pipes in the bricks  in the ground that doesn't address the assessment process which come up couple items farther down the agenda i think our memories are good enough that will recall here  those were covered by the heart of holland contribution we had donations from people that were willing to private individuals paid for your installation of snow at your rental in america excuse me we can't have a conversation mike if you want something you know i'm just going to say if you're going to if you're going to have a conversation you come to up to the mikes or we can't nobody at home can hear what you're saying because you're speaking from your seat  brian what would the cost be for the installation of snow melt at this gentleman's rental property i don't have the exact figure but it's usually about a quarter of that magnitude higher than what the all of them  so everybody downtown all the people that live above businesses downtown and people that have businesses downtown pay an assessment every year in order for them to have snow melt interrupt you but sure in a private individual right and people that live there also pay because they have an apartment downtown they also pay a part of it and they also paid half of the installation of the snow good thing really just real avenues not a wealthy street right we understand and it was a decision that came to council the donation came to us we've had a series of public hearings but i know it's hard to stay you know you don't think oh today they might put in snow melt on go to a council meeting i understand that so it is it is something that came up quickly we didn't know the half million dollars was going to be coming with the offer and we were in a period of transition i think we had three different mayors through this process so we haven't landed here in putting this through the middle of the city i think that june seventeenth i believe one of two thousand and fifteen in this room there was a public hearing on this so that was well over a year ago and there was fourteen or fifteen individuals who spoke about this matter and the city council made this within four hundred feet of a public parking lot and generally within the area bounded by fifth street on the north columbia avenue on the east and eleventh street on the south and pine avenue on the west properties are  assessed under a base formula of difference where footage rates and the amount assessed for this year is will generate two hundred six thousand two hundred eighty nine dollars and seventy one cents and will apply to one hundred fifty properties thank you amy so we are opening this up for a public hearing if anyone has come here to address what amy just explained please come to the podium give us your name and address and what you would like to say seeing seeing that ana could you call that i we go into the downtown principal shopping district assessment raul pay me again thank you the principal shopping assessment role is dedicated to enhancing downtown howland as a whole by actively promoting seventeen assessment it's one hundred seventy properties hundred seventy five properties excuse me and will generate one hundred eighty thousand seven hundred sixty two dollars and seventeen cents in revenue and we're asking that city council adopt a resolution approvingly principle shopping district final assessment will thank you amy so this is another public hearing if anyone came here to address the principal shopping district assessment for downtown please step to the podium and give us your name and address and what you would like to say seeing men will close the public hearing for that move to council we have a motion motion no doubt recommendation support supported by bird any discussion yes mike just one thing madam mayor want to thank the downtown merchants for this is come up every year for a number of years parking and free specifically for the thing that we just did they paid for this so we help commuters out there for a number of years that's greatly appreciated the principal shopping district assessment for the fund raising for the events that happened downtown they all play a part in that as well as the next item on board so i want to thank the me and the group specifically the downtown merchants for making this all possible for all of us actually it's right the downtown property owners pay a property tax like everybody else then they pay an assessment so that we have free parking then they pay another assessment so that they can host parties for us as a part of their marketing effort downtown and then they pay so that we can have melted snow on the sidewalks so we can enjoy in the winter so that we get a lot of benefits in our downtown from our very we are the model city as a result so on the second floor you pay all of those things yes thank you so and could you please call the roll yes whiteman abberations assessment for downtown businesses amy the snow melt assessment is for the operating and maintaining of the downtown snow system this year the assessment cover  six hundred thousand three hundred seventeen square feet and the assessment amount is two hundred forty four thousand one hundred fourteen dollars and forty four cents this year it does include twenty five properties that were on central avenue that council decided on october five to change how they were going to be assessed those twenty five properties are assessed only on their driveway approaches and they  will the sidewalk square footage will be handled by the heart of holland donation fund for the next three winters so we're i'm sorry go ahead ok we were recommending that city council adopt discussion there are four properties that are on central avenue that are not part of the heart of holland donation one of those is a residential property so in your packet is a letter from that property and that program to request that that their assessment not be levied given that they do not have a driveway when unlike some of the other property owners in which the driveway apron is included at forty two cents a square foot so that the city council upstairs discuss this matter and and discussed also the a potential motion to recognize that fact and i have a draft motion here when you're ready it's been worded to accomplish that outcome thank you ryan so this is a public hearing for that last item if you came here to talk about that please come to the podium give us your name and address and what you would like to say about that john myers it was seventeenth street i came just to say thank you because i came to the study session and i had a hardcopy they gave to you guys because i want to make sure that my voice was h and that study sessions for some of them do a study session and that was fascinating and that sentence probably puts me in a particular type of under the category but it was really interesting watching the new folks kind of flush out the issue and i heard my voice in that and i heard other people's voices in that and i know we're not done because this is just for the next three years right everything's going to be figured out what's the what's it it's one year it's one year ok this isn't and ok so we're kind of god bless you john that many people would do that that appreciate your voice of reason and know it's personal for you so it's hard to be reasonable when it's personal and that that takes a big man to do that thank you just as we had talked about all these assessments so every year we make this assessment decision this is a new area of assessment and so it is it has been and new frontier for us to try to figure out how to do this in an equitable way in and also in relation to the heart of holland donation so their generosity was to span five years and at this point we make a decision one year at a time we accepted their gift for the five years and we're going to see how we can make it work the best we can in regards to everyone that we need to consider we haven't finalized the decision for this year but we're pretty close to it and then we're going to have a study session where we really work hard to develop the policy for the rest of those four years left and be at a letter i received at this time property owners in this area will not be assessed for the snowmelt in the adjacent sidewalk for at least three winters normal procedure for council to take on basically the previous five items and this one are something that we have to do from a business perspective every year so that's why the mayor says that we we are taking this up one year at a time because we always do ok but the reality is the motion that we had a couple weeks ago and the reason we received that letter was because what was on the table took that guests and in essence did the our best to calculate the math for those three years based so next year it may be the full assessment and i i don't think so we just have to work it out for sure but i don't think you're going to be changing in what you have to pay but we are our gift runs out earlier than they anticipated they wanted it to go for five years but that was assessing you more every year sell where trying to balance that out and that's why we need seems like you're heading and you're a direction one comment is that property owners weren't really given an opportunity opt out of this you know there was a discussion year and a half ago about it but we didn't vote  so it wasn't really an opportunity to say no i don't want this kind of i know it was a kind of all or nothing situation but we should bear that might to some of the homeowners don't want  park township resident but i'm here as the building and grounds chair of fourteenth street christian reformed church and thinking about some of the comments a little bit earlier reminded me my wife and i just got back from a thirty six hundred mile road trip taking us through southern missouri southern illinois oklahoma kansas nebraska iowa and one of the things that we commented to each other as we were writing on was that  see a recurring theme in so many many of those towns and cities that's the boarded up empty downtowns that are shuttered or full of antique stores and i hope there's going to like no fence and a n it leads us to each time we drive back into holland we are so fortunate to be in this town and we're very grateful for the benefactors that we've had over the years it's a fantastic story and i love to tell it when i'm out meeting with people and i meet people in these other towns we have a sidewalk that melts snow can you believe it and they can't usually but but having said that at fourteenth street we've got the largest piece of property over twenty five hundred square feet and as we tracked this process of discussions of multiple meetings getting to the driveway the approach is obviously very beneficial for us because smoke snow melt along the street is a nice to have no question about it it's nice to have it is that essential no we didn't ask for it but again we're grateful to have it  but some of the impacts as we look at this maybe as a cost benefit type of situation at fourteenth street we went through the rules we have about five percent of our membership that will walk in on a sunday on that route that's a pretty small portion of our membership we've got three driveways fourteenth street fifteenth street and central avenue sixty to seventy five percent of our traffic comes in off from those two approaches as opposed to central avenue our snowplow budget is fifteen hundred dollars per year and prior to having the assessments changed we were looking at the thousand dollar a year plus for the ops and maintenance figures so that's a huge chunk as compared with our snowplowing and i think it takes our guy about three minutes to carve out the the driveway access there and we have volunteers that snow blow the sidewalks on the streets so we're not saving any money there either so just to have that perspective of it's appreciated it's nice to have but there are perhaps are some limited benefits there and then another concern that we have more on that community park type of idea is we have a lot of people that feel the need to park in our parking lot we don't have no parking signs we kind of view it as a common grace sort of thing but i can anticipate people as they do coming downtown parking and taking their walks and i anticipate some walks with dogs up and down and i think we'll be seeing people parking in the parking lot which is ok except when it snows and we have to get the plows in and there's cars in the parking lot etc or our own folks have a hard time finding a parking spot small things perhaps but i thought it would be good for you folks to hear those ideas and comments then lastly as was referenced a little bit earlier this is the first time we're going into the community areas so i wonder what type of evaluation method do we have did we take a baseline of the number of people that walk up and down the streets and to see now two winners later we have a twenty five percent increase in the number of people or is it just well it's there and it must be good so i wonder if there are some ways to evaluate the effectiveness particularly since it's all a lot of money that was spent on the project and if we consider going into all the residential areas that might be some things to think about so thank you for that and i appreciate your time thank you c c caring about the community and your service for the church as  anything back at all and i'm just wondering what kind of a back charge you're going to go to receive riley for dumping one cubic yard of asphalt down into a manhole now i told recent riley they had seven days they prepared that manhole cover was off the hole but they get put the cover back on and get paving in by four or five o'clock at night they finally got allen all peeved and eyes have been supper at five o'clock at night and i hear all these weeks i spoke to your spouse on saturday morning and our transportation director is here can also direct speak directly mr haskins if you'd like to move along or hear from us cable drive and they've got a twenty four foot roadway and they have a gutter and a storm system running there we have no storm gutters at all the water runs for two three blocks down or and there's two manhole down or one of us high and dry in the grass and the other was over on the high side of the road and we have school buses coming down there and we've probably got eight or ten kids we've got three doctors or one doctor got five children and we have one of the biggest school buses to come down that road and it's only one hundred feet wide and when you got to landscapers trucks parked out in a roadway you can't even turn in a day allen drive like why have we after forty five years not been able to get a road this would know when they turned the curves in office out of shore drive they city free of charge they don't charge anything for this they take care of the lines between the road in the sidewalk and i for one use my own cost water seat fertilizer to keep a look nice we never you thing for that as far as i know i don't know but i just wanted to mention that we do things for you too and don't ask for any money you just consider that as well ok thank you and i you know i like to do it too so it's not a criticism like keep it looking nice it's great to have responsible people live in a city it makes all the difference thank you any other public comment ok we will close the public comment public hearing part thank you do we have emotion procedure i think it would be cleanest to have a motion to adapt the recommendation on the assessment and then once that motion is made seconded then a motion to amend that motion would be an order ok i'll move to adopt the resolution thank you mr attorney i was there for the discussion earlier this evening but i have an e mail from from mr bagley that that summarizes his thoughts on what the amendment should  read and i'll just read it here the the amendment would read that the city of howland pay the snow melt assessment for the residential property at two sixty seven central avenue at a cost of three hundred thirty one dollars eighteen cents and that the city of howard make a transfer in the amount of two thousand dollars to the stone that fund in fiscal year two thousand and seventeen to make up the difference between the amount specialists asked to property owners for still not operating cost in the area south of twelve st also known as the heart of holland area to be consistent with the memorandum of understanding between the city of holland and the heart of holland donors and it's your motion believe in a second for that word for that particular motion ok supported by truthfully i write any more comments about that motion yes yes i've got a couple of things to say maybe a little bit of history first on this whole snow melt thing down central avenue started several years ago we're rolling out the movie energy plan a part of that plan included the notion of district heating and we talked about that we thought well he had no there might be some customers for that and where would be the best place to run the district heating pipe of we're going to do it and by golly it was down central avenue could potentially serve customers at the hospital ly school every commons fault it's just the way things go sort of put back the social overdue street reconstruction project by the two years or so we talked about we talked about it we looked at it we juggle numbers while the short of it is we came to the conclusion that running the pipes in the ground the transmission pipes and distribution pipes of those orange things that you see the inside work now the bricks of all that cover that cost and a portion of that gift would cover up question of what was assumed would be the operational assessment to folks living along that stretch of central avenue the assumption was based on a model that's been used in the downtown area for years since we've had snow melt seems to make sense nobody really got too upset about it nobody out about it was a path of least resistance so it was sort of a normal   a consideration that came to us last year quite frankly in the very next hectic throes of trying to get this project going and keeping it on time and not making life too difficult for our director of transportation and city engineers there was something about that method of assessing that didn't seem quite right but we really have the time to go in depth and think about  said well we'll do the project when and we've got time to think about it later on next year we make the assessment so there is now and we've come out with this assessment benefit all of those unknowns that are part of the the level that we're kind of dealing with here but we came up with a couple of weeks ago it was an attempt again or rather hasty what i have to admit but an attempt at trying to find some equality in parity in this whole situation it seems is all i have a year if you have a driveway and the snow melted and you don't have to  go to say nobody's going to have to shovel because it gets like icebergs sometimes but if it at least e g eases the burden of getting rid of the snow in your driveway that's just a be a pretty easily  ed direct benefit to homeowners so it seemed reasonable to say well we can assess that home i don't think anybody would get too upset about that the rest of it the sidewalk portion of it or even example i live on central to eighty thousand nine hundred street where the wrong side of the streets all the stuff is on the other side because i would have probably you know took my garden hose up to that right down my driveway but thing yes and i'm quite certain that this winter she will just traipse across the street on the snow belt and walk to work being very happy which is a direct benefit to me  but i think it assessed for any of that stuff right i think of the bill says you have to pay this much or this is what we're going to pay but i am benny from in my household is benefiting from it so all of that to say to try to illustrate the dilemma that we're facing in trying to figure out what's the best way to us what's the value of this snow melt at a different kind of setting is precisely downtown but when it goes down central avenue or if it should go down you know columbia avenue or into some other residential area what's the what's the value and to whom does a value affect the most or who is affected by that so what i've been trying to push for and frankly i'm getting sick of hearing myself talk about it is that we as a group we look into this more deliberately more in depth to figure out as best we can what what a fair assessment policy looks like when this goes into a residential neighborhood i don't know if it will anymore if this will be the only experience quite frankly i have no idea what that final price going to look like i wouldn't promise anyone that you'll never be assessed if you're ever residential property owner they will never be assessed for the operational costs of stuff out because i don't know that and i can't promise it but  i'm not comfortable in my own mind using the old paradigm in a new situation and i think we have to figure that out and that's what we're promising to you that we will figure out us a little more incentive to make a decision one quickly and you could help her by means of if you like but so that's kind of where at it's almost like making soup blindfolded you know you're pretty sure the costs on rental properties are most often passed on they're not absorbed and they certainly are absorbed by homeowners so i mean as comfortable as i can be i guess at this point with where we're at with us we will struggle with it more you can count on it and i'm hopeful that relatively confident that we're going to come up with a solution that will be p understand the amendment i guess so in essence what we're talking about in the amendment is the single residential property to the east of centennial park and leaving the assessment as it was two weeks ago but also taking an additional two thousand dollars from the snowmelt fund to kind of true up to the spirit of the heart of how and agreement i think the amendment says we take two thousand in front of city fines to add to the five thousand from heart of holland f correct the intent of the heart of howard as i understand it contribution and nischelle he was assuming this assessment you know the homeowners would be assessed a certain rate and the thought was their contribution would cover half of that assessment for a period of five years they felt the five years would be a period of time that i guess we could assess what the impact of what it was going to be but the intent of how the hard part contribution was to go a duration of five years at half the cost of what came out two weeks ago or whenever it was that we amended the policy was that there was a given amount that the heart of holland contribution was comprised of twenty five thousand dollars out so whether that was used up in three years or five years didn't seem to be no big deal but as it turns out  in order to honor the intent of the heart of holland contribution we're talking about job of looking at the five year period but as the mayor said we revisit this assessment situation every year so this amendment essentially deals with a one year period and that two thousand dollars make up the shortfall that we would experience today if you did in in so what i wanted to get at was effectively two weeks ago what we did is we three years versus five years driveways being the homeowners responsibility sidewalk being the heart holland portion really the math came out almost  identical and so where i struggle with the amendment he is in i understand that we're trying to match spirit and intent but effectively what we're doing now is we're saying we're going to match that spirit and intent for five years and so really what we're doing to some degree is making a five year decision and commitment to that spirit and intent and so that that's where i struggle with it a bit i thought what we did two weeks ago was actually a really to your credit creative way to to kind of take that residential feedback that you all have shared melded into our sau and deliver something that takes that voice into consideration meshes it into this annual process and does a pretty good job of honoring that spirit and intent because that is if it to some degree a fixed dollar amount of that gift if i understood things correctly a couple weeks ago so i understand the merits of the amendment but truth be told i'm going to struggle to support  for the a national assessment played out to approximately five years so when we got the feedback from the neighbors we had to readjust the assessment the same money runs out in three years yes but we're examining the property owners from a portion of what we were assessing so we do what we did in effect two weeks ago we say that the residential property owners will bear the burden of their driveway approach portion of the assessment and then the gift if you will would cover the sidewalk that's on the map played out and so effectively what we're doing is is to have the money for three years to be able to do that are ordinance in our policies only allow us to do it here in time yes that's we have these annual assessments we are going to have a discussion bertie eloquently about the future of this assessment and you know how it plays out if we extend this into other neighborhoods so we don't have this one off conversation every time yes but no i do not fully support that future conversation i mean i've been saying that for a year that we need to figure this out so i'm not disagreeing with you what i'm saying is mathematically speaking we're within dollars if you will of the actual carry cost whether it's if we revert back to the five year approach the original proposal for the five year approach was it was fifty percent of the driveway approach fifty percent of the sidewalk what we said two weeks ago was that the sidewalk will be carried differently and that the driveway approach would be carried by the resident residence effectively get to some degree a little bit better financial bargain in the deal and so with the same roughly twenty five thousand dollars again and  so i understand the spirit and intent i understand will be right back here taking up these six same items next year but if i'm affectively committing to the spirit and intent of a five year part of holland gift tonight that also means that next year i'll have to make that same commitment because that's what the spirit and intent was but i think really the spirit and intent was the heart of how and gift is to mitigate the cost for those folks on that cordle which in stats the highest level spirit and intent which is still doing yeah no i i'm not arguing that point that's why i'm saying i like the three year over over the five year because what i'm able to do is marry that together with the freshest of feedback from that residential area and mitigate some costs for those folks as well so so in holland we also have the joy of including the philanthropic  in the conversation so we need to take that into account as we consider our discussion before we get to next year so we want to talk about what does that mean step it at three years with concrete or do we go we figure out a way that to help with the last two years because of the heart of holland gift i think in giving half a million dollars and presenting a plan with the intent to support people in the area for five years it's it's important for us to and we've talked about cooperation between the city the nonprofit people like habitat for humanity that are working on central avenue the number of other organizations that are nonprofits that are helping to make this area more stable plus we're getting this donations so i think we have to rebuilding to put our our share into it as a city as well for the common good of everyone when i look back historically sixteenth street in central levels a very important location we had to bond bake shop there we had both ends dry goods stuff shop we had smith's drug drugstore there you know a lot of people over the years who looked on central avenue the i get my grandmother live there so i know the area pretty well we also are talking about we didn't really talk about the greenhouse part that was part of this project either good or bad we kind of are moving ahead in that particular direction so i think i feel badly that i don't like the part that we're having the central avenue people pay big bucks or even small bucks because i think they are not people who can easily afford that particular thing they need to buy for their kids they need prescriptions to buy for their kinds of things their social security check is going to go up probably one percent next year so this is this is a hurting group so i think we have to be sensitive to this neighborhood what can we do to add to this neighborhood and i think if we can cover this for a period of five years will see the benefits we're going to see the property values where people want to come to holland with a snow melt and as dave lives on the wrong side of the street here on the east side those people are going to want that snow melt if they can get affordable price so i think this is could be a really leap wonderful leap frog opportunity rather than a negative here if we look at it from a positive standpoint rather than a negative we've got a ways to go on that but we've got two three years to see if we can work it out so i think it's going to work out i had real doubts about first but i think we're going to be good with it so i think dave for being really innovative here to get this thing moving and i support the demy property as well so thank you ok thank you wayne and the other candidates so i believe we're at the end of the public hearing in the comments from counsel and we now have a motion amended yes yes yes peter's yes burch no lean yes madam mayor yes motion passes seven yes t before we call the roll on the show that motion to i'm very empathetic to the conversation especially around central avenue quincy and myself born on  the time that you know this kind of all got put into place and so kind of coming in now and kind of assessing where we're at in this process we've heard a lot of conversation about when you have more dialogue around how we're going to approach this going forward  and that's kind of where when i look at this i think our conversation is less about central avenue even though that's where we're at right now but more heat how are we going to approach melt in residential neighborhoods and one of the things you're hearing tonight and probably have heard kind of throughout the process here especially is assessments have become real things is involving community people that are in those neighborhoods and kind of doing some of this homework on the front end and i think that's part of what this council's going to be charged with in our conversations as we're looking strategically into the neighborhoods we're going if we're going if we should put in places and understanding kind of the whole picture of when we make this decision who's in effect how does it  affect those individuals and what are the costs were the real costs and really kind of doing the due diligence of understanding and you know wanted it eight to twenty five on wednesday night a lot of people have a lot of things going on and most of them aren't here and so we've got to kind of be the voice and listening to and reaching out involving people in the community when we're talking about something like melting snow on streets and sidewalks in residential neighborhoods and kind of where that puts us from a in the competitive landscape of wanting to get people to move here keeping people that are already living here you know one of the things we talk about is potential for increased home value so it's great i'm going to sell my house to get it in the meantime i've got to pay and so if i can't do that if i'm struggling for my cash flow standpoint it didn't help or hurt and so kind of understanding the bigger picture in this conversation and what we want to go strategically and doing the homework on the front end so i think that's a that's exciting conversation and just want everybody to know that's kind of where you know we're going to be pushing next steps in that in this of installation was borne by the hired of highland so each house should have paid between five and ten thousand dollars to have an amenity like this installed in front of your house and driveway  the church should have been assessed thirty nine thousand dollars and the church would have paid sixty percent of that which would have been twenty three thousand four hundred dollars to have that installed all the downtown businesses paid half of installation first snow melt wherever it occurred so the heart of holland paid for all of that and i know it's an amenity many did no ask for some did not want and so i do think it will help us to live with this for a year no one could have anticipated the wild success of snow melt down town many thought it was a foolish decision and after it was installed and it was used for a while no one could get enough of it everyone wanted more and we ran that t by capacity on our use of snow melt and that was our number one value when we moved the power plant was we had to keep snow melt because it is a huge value a signature city and so the whole group of people that got together the vast community meetings that was their number one value keep snow melt and grow it and so now with this new power plant we do have five times the capacity we had before for snow melt and that tells us we need to figure out what we want to do when we want to do it how we want to do it and these are amazingly wonderful problems to have in a wonderful city and so we appreciate all of you coming and talking it's true and helping us to see things from different perspectives and that is the world of democracy and when we do it with civility and respect it helps all of us be a better community so we appreciate your input so we're moving on now to public comment if you came here to talk about anything that is not later on the agenda for the evening you are welcome to come to the podium give us your name and address you have five green light keep going yellow light one minute red light it's over so if you would like to talk come on forward we can afford all that cost in the snowplows run over and ship the brick in the next bring her back and they're trying to repair the thing so the problem i see they just got to planting trees in that south shore business district and the trees right now are barely hanging always occur because of the area that they planted and there's only maybe three feet hudler start criminal trees in the next three or four years one or start hanging over in the highways i don't know where the engineering department is but i think fabia have left people watering flowers in a flower boxes downtown and then on islands and on a corners and hire some more engineers and we would probably have the problems we're having in a street scape and all the other problems that we're having especially on a cost in the end of charge backs that you have probably we don't even know about this being hidden and discussed if your private meetings  we have brick is because it works much better with snow melt we tried with cement and it wasn't as effective when you have to stand between the bricks it works much better and you can also fix the snow melt much easier so i'm not an engineer but i believe them when they tell me that you know it and i can remember when they started to snow melt and they were breaking up the concrete in front of the store downtown and i was dropping down into the basement and damaging a probably because they didn't realize that the basement stuck out under the sidewalks so i know a little bit about what i've been around here few years and let me say this joy one other item you've got a deputy working here for you and paralysis should have been elevated to the top job a long time ago she certainly has earned it revels last year in the street was being tore up you know some residents were able to put in a sewer new sewer line to the street well lo and behold my sewer it was connected to the neighbors city drawings show i had my own sewer city's mistake or engineers mistake i made a complaint to the city and they say they're not responsible for it because they provided the permit to let the the worker contractor put in the new line and apparently he open holes he shoved this in he didn't know there was a why i connected the drawing showed i had my own suddenly the sword was cut off both tenants had to move out for two weeks last rant they lost a home for two weeks they had to go somewhere else in had to pay to have the mind my whole driveway because the sewer line was under the driveway it to the neighbors i had to pay to have that dug up new sewer put in and  new cement done over that no no why is it not the city's responsibility to provide these accurate drawings so this doesn't happen  we don't have a dialogue but that's all right i want you to consider that thank you sir all right another problem at a nice handmade fence in curved painted in front of the house it was damaged when they  drew the groundwater out of the you know to do that new storm sewer one of their vehicles backed into it they went over the curb sidewalk back into the fence broke it and made a complaint ridden you know one of these written complaints and again so he says not a responsibility you have to go to the contractor don't you hire the contractors isn't that your responsibility my comment is so wildly different that i wanted to make sure that everything else was and the first time my name is kim to play court i live at one twenty seven was twenty third street i am a published author with his shut book group i am an international speaker but what i'm here today about is my orphan care advocacy it has led me on a very wild ride all the way to washington d c on working groups regarding orphan care legislation and it has also led to the creation of a five all one c three here in holland michigan that works exclusively with vulnerable children and orphan children in the russian sector of the odessa blast the country of ukraine i am still a little jet lag so i hope that i'm talking clearly enough for everybody i just returned from there heart is about three things nourished hearts is about prevention visitation in transition our goal is to prevent the number of children that are entering orphanages to visit them while they are there and help encourage life skills and ethics training and then also to provide transitional care for when at the age of fourteen through sixteen they asked to leave the orphanage and try to make a living on their own we have done that in a pretty systematic way for as young as we are just being over a year old what we have decided to do is to work through the evangelical churches of the odessa blast the odessa old blasters bordered by the danube river and the black sea when you stand on the shoreline of odessa you see crimea across the sea this is the first time i've seen so many soldiers and tanks when i was there working for two weeks they are definitely getting ready for  something it was the ukrainian army that i saw another russian but it is it all blasts that it enjoys a very rich russian history many of the families there are very proud to be ukrainian but many of their family members are still living in the country of russia it's a very difficult position to be in as you can imagine they still hold orphans and vulnerable children as lower class citizens just to give you some idea of the extent of this problem point to one point two one of the population of the country of ukraine is orphaned here in our foster care system those eligible for adoption are point zero three just to put that into perspective point two one point zero three so the the war situation there everything that's been going on with the falling of the money it was seven point five when i first started going to ukraine in two thousand and three it is now twenty six to one  everything about it has escalated a number of people from the donbass area that are fighting with the different russian special forces have moved into the odessa so i've gotten firsthand account from many of these and many of the newly orphaned what we're trying to do through prevention is a center for vulnerable children these are the children of sex trade workers hiv tuberculosis infected families and they are mostly single parent or living with a grandparent and what we are doing is taking them in after school we are giving them a snack we are giving them tutoring they meet with a doctor or nurse and dentist they meet with different therapists if needed they are given organized play a social worker sessions a hot nutritious meal before they go home at six o'clock and we do this seven days a week through the local event a local church transition we have sending over seventeen different groups are part of a coalition there that are going to carry orphanages we are servicing approximately six thousand children  year olds who have been asked to leave the orphanages with the family i have brought some gifts since the president of ukraine is also the c e o of a chocolate company i thought you might enjoy some of the chocolate from his company so if if people are interested in learning more about your ministry and being involved in helping these children how do they get a hold of you cam it's kind of hard not to find know your efforts were birthed from your own difficult experience in attempting to adapt your son and having to stay an entire year in the ukraine till they were willing for you to go home with him they said we'd never get him home but after fighting for a year we did wow and then to turn that hurt in your own life into ministry to gun thank you thank you  yes yes it's hard to make you any sweeter jay but i will try ok we're going to go on to the exclusive agreement for the potential redevelopment of the parking lot seven c ryan now we go to joel associated with the downtown area that you determined in the that we should consult with that's been the subject of a lot of public conversations there have been some correspondence that you received there is a letter of intent that is in your agend should you wish to proceed which would indicate that the city would not market the property it does include a five thousand dollars payment associated with purchasing the appraisal for the property and the final deliverable  or who's here tonight burton katzman would need to provide are the six five items shown here regarding whether or not it meets the other cities plans and expectations no loss of parking there would only be greater parking the city under this letter intent in your packet would reserve rights to reject any na proposals from the developer to proceed not proceed negotiate for get out the sale of the property the only expectation of the city is to not market the as well as the developer here who can speak to that or as you wish thank you ryan so do we have a motion to open discussion i'm sorry no i think there's the really key piece here to communicate to the public in the community is don't really city's not taking any risk your own when i tie ourselves to a commitment when i i think that's that's the piece this just crystal clear yes brian i think it's imperative when a respected and seemingly  someone who comes into our city with with the best interest of mine in particular a developer that sees opportunity in our city we see that as a good sign we should see that as a potential a testimonial of where we are and potentially where we're going so in a lot of ways i look at this situation not as  o downside to any local developer i think we respect everyone who's come here and want to do work here people who live here and develop already but to have someone new come in  again is validation of what we're doing and i want to make sure that that's clear and that's heard and very eager to see how this developer approaches this particular property  this is an unexpected turn of events for a property that no we did not have out for sale but again if someone does find value in something and finds opportunity in it through business  and can make our city grow we only have two ways to grow it's remember that out or up and if we can grow up or someone can help us do that i may see a great opportunity or the amount to fifty parks and recreation and to get from the grace of this couple church women's groups in the amount of twenty five dollars it is recommended that these donations be accepted with appreciation in an expression of gratitude our oppose same side wonderful thank you so much and thank you community amazing place now we are going on to the possible scope of changes for the improve civic center brian thank you have mayor i want to invite craig away camp here who is most familiar with this project who has some slides and as you know the entryway is what he's going to focus on given some earlier conversation with deferring some of the outside work as shown on this slide those items would be funded as and should finances support just so this whole conversation centers around really where we've been all along the civic center project which is always been about priorities and establishing them so the whole point of the conversation here is we have the complete vision for the project that was established i think we have been going through many conversations throughout the summer about where to start there hasn't been much conversation about how far to go to with a vision we always want to complete the vision about what to do first and when so we have been working diligently on fundraising for the summer but we now have a hard deadline that does engineer to use provide the required certifications for us to be qualified and we need to establish a building footprint in a certain volume so that's what's driving this conversation tonight there is  great confidence that we qualify that you know the initial calculations were within the context of the concept plans where they stand or are going to work but now we need to kind of put a hard stop on that and say these are the lines and the insurers have to do the really hard calculations to prove it to the point where they can put their stamp in the center of their livelihood online saying this will do what we think it will do and that allows us to move forward with the process which he has asked me to save us potentially several million dollars i don't know the exact number but if potential of the three million or something in that neighborhood so what i'd like to show you tonight is our best effort as a design team to present to you what we think is the is kind of the the  to move forward with the building and get the cutesy rolling so to orient everybody eighth street this to the top the current entry to the building is right here there's the gym which you would all recognize  and so there are serious of there's really no changes to anything in the program it's really a question of which parts and pieces of the program that we've been discussing for many months are we are suggesting move forward with so i want to describe those as we have the one story northwest expansion here which will be office space we have renovated toilet rooms and service service bases storage that is needed we have the catering kitchen and those elements all the renovations to the gym that we've talked about the north pole expansion which is two floors which gives us to two very functional new floors expand its base for the market and so forth and then the and then the new toilet rooms out here and then the new lobby expansion which we've had all along and the question in large part of the priorit that mouse hopefully and then you see those dots of the columns holding that up and that's an intentional design process to help create shading in different things to reduce heat gain which is all part of our energy conservation approach so the second floor of what we're what this would be is where we are proposing to go with the full two story height of that east side and there was a lot of conversation earlier about is that a story and a half or is it two stories the reason i recommend that we push forward with this is as we settle along with we will implement this vision no matter how long it takes it's not a question of of the dollars it's more a question of when and where the parties in this case once you build your east hall you are never going to change it ok so if you build it at a story and a half it would be fifty or sixty years before you ever contemplated changing that so this is one of those decision points where it seemed quite important to council that we have the story facade which is important which gives us some additional space and now is the time to make that call because if you go lower you want i can imagine a scenario in the future where you tear that off and go back up versus for example and in contrast of that we are designing the north hall expansion to one day have the interesting ok with this or so what we have here is a comparison of the before the one and a half stories that we talked about and what we're proposing to do so the one and a half stories as you can see here so again you've got the jam and we're talking primarily about this entry  this is a smaller this is another approach to meaning live out of the smaller lobby and versus the larger lobby so it's a much more functional space so in this case it's wanted to have stories high and in this case it's a full two stor so that's hopefully understandable as we look at this these are existing sections and i'm going to try to zoom in to make this a little easier to see that for clarification while he's getting ready the the vision included something that was a lobby more than what you saw and then to achieve every deuced the ten million dollars bond there is a smaller lobby and your decision tonight is if you proceed forward do you want to do the lobby that will be recommended or do you want to do the southeast park improvements and the site improvements either can ball and tide has a question and while we're working here right i want to make sure i understand what you said something in the middle i got the impression that there was just the one design of the east lobby in this design so you're saying there's a third right i'll do this by timeframe in march and we received a presentation and that presentation always included a a lobby that was larger than lobby to somewhere in the middle and you'll see that the hype is somewhere in the middle and the way to the ceiling is somewhere in the middle but yet is more akin to where you began in march they're calling in tech nine one one here we go perfect explained so we're going to jump up from from this and look at the second floor and so what you see in the second floor is we have the expansion on the north hall as we have along with a balcony that connects this area to the upper floor toilet rooms and then this is an oper volume about that space so see that understandably so moving right along to what does that look like this is is a pretty good representation of that two full two story height and so you can see how it interacts with the existing building that's existing upper portion of the building now everything you see here is on there this is the corner where we have the vertical circulation to get you all the way to the top so there's no questions there this is another view from kind of street view if you're walking down to the farmer's market which you would see so beautiful two story elevation there it is again as you can see you can actually see into the space you can actually see some  existing well you might even still see the civic center tax that's been there for sixty years which i think would be a really cool thing to have and then this is a view from the northwest looking down a street this is that one story office expansion this is the two story north pole expansion and that's the corner again the primary entry in vertical circulation there and the questions about anything so and then another street level view of from again from the northwest so there's no questions without a go back to the comparisons  twenty additional stalls inside the building in the wintertime so i wouldn't count the doors as a stall i think there are just entry points entry points thank you and other questions on this for a good comparison ok can i come back and  reduced how do we bring it down and cost making the smaller a much less functional space this is a dramatically more functional space as it relates the goals from the vision as we jump to this and i can zoom in now this is the existing section so this is if we magically cut a slice of the building so this is the current building when you walk into the doors now you come in trying to do this with its abilities or to see ok in there you walk up the front door you're in the space and these are where the offices are right here and then you're kind of in the space underneath the seating and you walk into the gym over here if you're not used to looking these maybe it's all confusing but basically the restrooms and things are better in this area here so that's the existing the smaller version that we talked about paul that so here is that existing wall again you can see that line carries out so the smaller version kept all of that and we came out just a little bit and we have a story and a half light and in general it's a much smaller space and then what we're proposing to do now which is very nearly the entire vision is to go the full two storey high we have a balcony that links at this angle floor remains and then you have a much much more functional space this lobby space i think is is quite comparable to the space and at the jack miller we've been talking about that the height of vision here it's a very gracious space in terms of function and use and in the context of being able lease that space for functions and so on so hopefully that is helpful to see the difference between the concepts so existing sort of the sort of minimum approach and then this is sort of the kind of a really nice guy and compromise the one additional thing that we the only thing we don't have from the full vision is leveling this upper additional i think that six hundred thousand dollars to level that floor and do what we did in the north we simply don't have a path within any of the existing budgets that concept also brought your facade up to the top of the existing could you come to a microphone dan because people can't hear y yes there was a time when we investigated that as a study if i recall correctly that would have been part of the original i think we were at a twenty four million dollars project at that time when we set it all in i think even as of the version that was i think upwards of the sixteen and a half million if i'm remembering the number correctly that was still at this height of a of a lobby that was early february when a very early concepts where you are talking about compromise and i think this was a compromise from the i just get to resent cool ideas you get to go all right so photographic memory there mike so what you see here this was this was the sort of reduced story and a half right and that's kind of where we were in july as a snapshot as to how might we do that i think nobody was particularly excited about that and here is that what that interior space would feel like you know rather small here is where we are today what we're recommending today two stories and we get almost all the way to the top and then when you go inside it's a much more gracious space and you do get that that sort of color and which i love in a much more gracious space so that is where we are today and i guess as a recommendation as a design team we think this is a good approach to leave it there for questions thank you greg thanks for walking through with all of this with us any questions mike just and i think brian attempted to do this and he probably did it pretty well but i just want to do this one more time that the original scope of the project that we had before us which we gave you directed to do a couple of months ago was with everything all of the parks the building in this shape so on and so forth unfortunately at this point we've fallen just a little bit short of the fundraiser with the director of the council did back in july about the maximum budget and so on and so forth it's come to a point now that we have to do this or do this the do this right now is doing the building the do the other is minimizing the building and doing some outside work the park up in the corner and so on and so forth pretty pretty close to an absolute he says basically you know we're talking about a million million and a quarter some here one way or the other so we have to because of the energy grants you have to have the footprint down we have to say this is the way it's going to be yes ok perfect if i might that at this point i know we haven't got a motion on the table but you're looking for discussion so i'm going to give you my synopsis on it i said right from the beginning because of the unknown and i think the world of bill johnson and you guys with the design i have not got a design bone in my brain i just know what i'd like to see i also look at it what i see is the practical i understand the concept of wanting to put the park in and all this other stuff but i also see that there are some plans some discussions some dream some whatever you want to call it for us to continue to move westward toward the water what aid street is going to be like when that market goes on we don't know i would prefer that we stick our money into the building right now get that done as greg said if we don't do it now it's probably never going to happen it would be a foolish move to throw money away i feel the same way about the park in the in that upper corner because we don't have a total vision of water from lincoln avenue all the way down to the water that stretch of eighth street may change to me that would be thrown over a million and a quarter away understanding that there are some some of that money was to do some of the provisions for the canopies and and things for the farmer's market i think we're doing a pretty good compromise here we had asked to have indoor market space work competition that we're not compromising except for the absolute top floor it's going out to the sidewalk line exactly where we want to go the facade is going to be able to reflect which is what caught my eye originally reflect the downtown as you're walking toward that we're going to get a double downtown it's going to get big i remember some people saying why do we want this great big box sitting here tear it down put green space there  move out of the water this is a fantastic response to that this is going to add to the enhancement it's going to add to the draw it's going to add to the draw a billet if you will to get us downtown my vote is going to be putting our money right now into the building get it done and we'll do the outside when the time comes thank you mike any other comments  when you review for us the cost of the two story one that you have in front of what's the basic price tag we're talking about that the total price is still the twelve point seven five authorized enjoy  you no indictment on your designs or what you presented but i've always been a south east kind of softening park guy and unfortunately not only are we trading that out but in my opinion we're it appears we're moving it down the priority list some totally get mike's point i can understand both sides of it for me tonight it really boils down to yes or no on that trade off i'm a no largely because i liked the idea of doing something in that southeast corner and still prefer that  knowing that each and every thing that you showed us there in that progression makes sense to me i think it's something that you can be proud of we can be proud of as a community and i think every last aspect of it honors as best as possible not only the process that you guys i should for us but quite frankly also you know the the always present financial constraints if you will so totally get it beginning of this progeny preceded this site and facility and i felt from the beginning we've been sure we had been shortchanging that that idea that sad that we have to finish the building we have to proceed with the building we have to do the building in a way that people will actually say what have they done to this place my could mention there is a concerted effort to march toward the lake and i'll reiterate what i've said the past that i see the civic center property as a whole as the keystone in that effort and without it there will be no march toward it the the lakefront i remain resolute in my opinion that we have to do something to address the parking lots but today is not that day it will be another day and we will who dressing it as we bring in additional private support i do believe very much that private support can bring us into a very strong  and very urban environment for this space and really value our main street property for for what it is an engager community in a really valuable way so i'm eager to see this move forward thank you greg for your here i do believe that the other elements here the way i'm skipping around the corner with your proposed park in the north west carr i guess it would  be i think are important to develop a sense of place here that reflects the diversity of our community if you go downtown and hang out by the water feature by the new hotel you know there's holland reflected in that space and i think those kind of considerations are important in the how we populate this new thing that we're going to do here and make sure that it does  provide a comfortable space for everybody because i think that landscape in those elements that we're putting on a temporary hiatus to partially represent that effort the lingering fear i had to guess as we went through this through the summer and so forth was that we would end up with an extraordinarily mediocre project that i feared that because  i think we needed a place a building issue that i honored the citizens of this city who were going to be paying for it honored the spirit in which we do things in this town either t those who are donating funds that we have one one group or folks who are putting their family name on this and it's important every member what it is that we're praying for them to identify their family with as well  as corporate sponsors and hopefully others who will step forward as well so those are important they saw remember i can be very comfortable with what i'm seeing here because i think oh i have personally i pray with you know this coming have ram why gave me this good news i want to share it at loud and clear october twenty sixth place course i took over thirty one final chorus central and state thank you brian thank you the contractors thank you city council thank you and for the community all their patience next street is two way now two weeks ago i indicated it was going to be happening as part of a traffic calming effort and i believe the traffic calming is indeed the case we did have some concerns about the length of the wait at night street as you proceed east on one street and i would just advise folks that that is something that is under we're watching it under some review i'm confident there is some sort of tweaks should it continue to be a problem but we suggest that since it is a traffic calming effort that if traffic is trying to proceed through downtown this might be the time to do this reestablish alternate routes that work better in getting two points east if if they don't have business downtown that might be a one possible solution that anyone can consider on any given day i'd like to see more things one is about the farmer's market recruitment it is important that we have a replacement position  there feedback you've received some you've had some conversations about having a short term non profit independent contractor operate the market with the proposals that we reviewed a long story i won't go into right now we do not have one that we can show for the our efforts so i would like to suggest that this is my plan and if it's something you want to have a study session on we can happily defer it until until a study session but to increase the hourly rate thanks currently paid there from twenty one dollars to something more in the mid twenty's which would relate well with some other positions a city has an offer that on  is an advertisement with the understanding that anyone that is chosen to be interviewed knows that this is a short term arrangement it could evolve into something much bigger or it could you know change to be before i proceed you know just let me know now or after the meeting the next item is the flow of work has been going on going and has been proceeding well the budget is twenty five thousand the believe it's money reserves from the way the vehicle would look when it's wrapped surplus to hose what we had talked about and if there's no other thoughts on that then that's what we'll proceed with we're hoping to get as much in place before the next parade which is i think early in december or early november so matt is anything you like to add especially about the timetable no we would let obviously like to get moving we only have really what about six seven weeks left  we've been working diligently with the mechanics of the transportation center and how this is all going to work dale and barry out there have been a great help along with the rest of the communications team so we think this this process while obviously who's the city manager that it's under budget is going to make us prou d as well as you see here we got daylight screens these are or spectrum is l g they like screens they can be seen seen in the bright sunlight those will be playing videos could be interaction with folks in a parade or wherever we're at and the idea being here that we have not only a float that we can pull in whatever parades we we choose to it will also provide a vehicle that we can take to other events outside of the parades so we'll be able to park the vehicle therapy screens show with the wonderful videos that we make all over the place it does include adios will be able to play some music as well so we think this is a good way to go and we want to get cracking on it because i  i would like to have this all put together by the pretty lights just so we didn't drag it out anymore matt graciously took the the challenge and i think he's going to make it we have the trailer the trailer is going to be  nancy and i don't see eye to eye on some things we did finally come together on this whole deal need to i mean that this was worlds apart and we came to a compromise i've been pretty happy and it was because of staff with their  imagination that was able to bring this all together but i think you're going to like the end product it's going to have some sustainability to it because we're going to be able to change the dynamics for the parades matts already talking like he had said a couple of times the vehicle itself is going to be used for more than just pulling the float it's going to be there in essence utility vehicle for moving the electronics and the media presentations around so i'm glad that we waited i'm not buy that we waited i'm glad that we have come out with the design that we have very simplistic and we're going to have something again and we love the snowplows remember that cable t v and one day i know that if you have yeah that was a challenge he met that one he can do a flow it's been a great team effort and it has been a real creative answer that i don't think would have a year ago because this is kind of been a support group for a while talking about the south work lead to be at this point and i do think it's going to support the video message that that the city has also do we need to vote on this as it's budgeted i don't see a need to have just wanted your information i think if you needed more conversation we wrap it up the next day session ok i think we're good are you done with your comments or ok then on to communications from the mayor we have a appointment of cindy's solo for the teen court advisory board for her you love and term wow eleven terms that's an awesome america in bloom we have our source of coolness here the coolest downtown award which we get the outstanding achievement award for environmental efforts twenty sixteen and the gorgeous five bloom award which we have been given every year and trying to figure out how to move that so that sign lines up there we go which is wonderful the coolest downtown award is going to be going to sit at the c v and probably the environmental till we figure that out the parks and rec will get the five bloom award if you would like to stop by to see those it is wonderful to be recognized on a national level for all the hard work that people do around here and the national award for environmental efforts is something that very many cities would like to get and to get that on a countrywide basis is is a real honor and that's the second time we have been given that and of course who doesn't want to be the coolest town downtown in the united states will take that any day we're grateful also we have the twenty sixteen in year old community event for the sustainability institute there's an unplugged up cycle and upgrade event thursday october twenty seventh from five thirty to seven thirty at the outdoor discovery center that should be fun for the family digraph is doing a fun thing for how we met and royalty farm that will be friday the twenty eighth from five to seven thirty so bring your kids out there for a lot of fun in the real and sister of our country then how will we make ours i have i received a letter from  boy in town asking if we could change trick or treat to monday because i mean change it to saturday so he could have a sleep over after trick or treating and he wanted a letter back so he does have a letter in the mail and it was it was great that he took the time to carefully write that whole letter and address the envelope and wonderful parents teaching their child to take his message  to the government and ask if you would like to have a change i did have to explain to him that this was announced a year ago it's in the city calendar but you can go downtown on saturday and there's free trick or treating between ten and noon and then you could have a party with your friends for lunch or have them stay till overnight so and then monday is going to be the official trick or treating day for holland from six between six and eight so shut your lights off at eight if you'd like and that's should be the end of that we hope everybody needs to behave and then we have our eyes on the prize rally for our new georgetown university have prizes and all kinds of things as we go on in our energy prize competition so come on down and party with us and then living sustainability living sustainably is having another event and november fifteen  i didn't know i could recycle that so if you want to learn about that come on down in any way we have for more information and get back to us i also wanted to mention in the newspaper i think it was yesterday they had a special little insert about the seven over seventy and one of the people that is being honored at that event tomorrow night at the hound area arts council is a face that many of you would recognize here on council is former mayor yes so he will be one of the seven over seventy will be honored this thursday between five and seven so that's a great event sponsored by i think rest haven and core committee recognizes people so that that's an honor for him and we're glad that he can be recognized in that way so that is it for me do we have to do anything else with these ordinances or do we handle the eveready ok great so i guess we are down to a final motion