appeal stage and so i was really having trouble figuring out how he had exhausted any of his in his favor of these on the claims that you now want to bring so maybe you could just take me through that claim that was whether it alerted officials to the nature of the dispute that's at stake you follow what the requirements are the president with the form of us and that's how i read it and so here we have a question what actions you want to take to correct the situation it's my understanding that mr new you know it's believed that he was complaining of the search by saying what authority was there for this the way you might get angry and say to someone hey what gives you the right to do that you know that's not right i want to staff to notify he describes the search that is clearly objecting still here so i think i'd have to be a pretty dense prison official to think that the only thing he wants out of this is just give me a copy of the or cite their legal authority it's more about alerting prison officials to the nature of the dispute and providing some way to resolve it and clearly he was complaining about being searched and i think that even though it's not another point in the record where he had actually complained before the search because he wins that it was going to happen and he filed it he essentially asking why this was going to be the case but it does put him in a the appeals process within the prison that's an aside i think that there is it's almost certainly true that there's a difference between whether prison officials act intentionally to thwart his pursuit of administrative remedies and they don't but not only is there evidence here that they did act intentionally to thwart his pursuit there's also an authority that even if they were just making statements even if they were simply incompetent that at some level that also excuses m i can do is sort of work by analogy but this kind of looks like a discovery request and it's not an available response as a defense to a failure to comply with the discover a quest well i gave you the wrong document but i didn't do it on purpose when you had in your possession the right documents you know you're supposed to provide the right documents so i'm trying to figure out whether intentional misleading or inadvertent or sleeping is relevant and by analogy discovery this kind of says this looks like discovery and hold it against him in the sense of taking him with a failure to comply with the procedural requirements based upon their improper response whether deliberate or not i think based on the record here i don't know what i was deliberate or not might i could have my suspicions well i think there's evidence that it's not if not deliberate well complaint regarding the strip search to tell him that his administrative complaint was being denied and that he was being fired from his just terrible presence there's further evidence that officer smith attempted to intimidate him from filing further comp and it wouldn't have created any burden on present administration any additional burden for them to say take it to the next level take it to the central office not here and time's running start i want to make sure i get to the next point  reason why the supreme court in value searched because not because the officers had something bad in their heads that they had it in for the motorist but because they can't just choose somebody who they feel like she's saying well you can't do that for a traffic s conclusion but according to him the only purpose was to harrison this morning yes right i think the question isn't whether there's a legitimate thing a logical interest in searching a prisoner at some point the question is whether there's a legitimate  have taken you over your time let's hear from the government but we'll give you a chance to respond it please the court adrian brown on behalf of the officer defendant from the united states attorney's office your honor just the key issue in this case to start with is whether or not district court was correct in terminating that facts for the president to believe that he still pursuing that fourth amendment issue which they answered in the speciate you know somebody reading this sequence can't really be under any great allusions he doesn't like what the prisoner following we're going from a nine to a tender we live in the way you would have liked him to or we would have liked him to because we wouldn't be here today that was the case but the give him the wrong citation and part of the bell has focuses on the justifications for initiating a search it seems to me he had a reason to want to know what is the foundation here and working under one of the rules then why here and from there then pursue his his course and in the clear yes your honor an create and that's where i get back to griffin because in griffin what's required is for them to provide enough facts for them to answer the response well he did provide enough facts for kerry angus officer angus to answer the response was taken by four where he says unfairly he could have provided that in the fifty nine and he did not he did not complain about where the search occurred and he did not complain about how the search occurred and i'm sure the purpose of the answer you're just giving me you're assuming that t they don't know what's in the b p a now and i don't believe they didn't act that way they simply want to answer his response because mr angus had answered why he was concerned about the search she says that he talks to this officer that that about the complaint he said t construe you know his words here he forfeited or gave up everything about the fourth amendment was only interested in have point on to see the program statement but he had no concerns the on that you never raise it again and in fact the facts show on the record that he was interested in the law he was in essence acting on behalf of all these other people on his work detail to find out what rule was allowing officers to do this but what i would like to turn to is is because i know i'm running out of time here is that i correctly that the twenty c f r five fifty two point one one inmate returning from an outside detail certainly meets that criteria in your all of the returning inmates could have been searched and the circumstances of this case  only evidence we have your honor smart taken taking place before is that under the under the program statement they are to be conducted on a periodic basis so that's not evidence that they actually have been conducted and the reason i'm asking that question is i'm looking at the program the institution that's not the issue but then it says examples of other situations requiring visual searches include conducting periodic visual searches of inmates returning from outside work details so one of the question is what is an outside work detail does it mean from outside the prison or does it could it mean for one part of the prison facility to another because he's housed in a minimum security he works in the medium security but if this regulation means that outside work detail includes what he is doing that means that they should have been doing these searches all along because the regulation says required and i see no evidence in the record that they've been doing this routinely your honor which leads me to think well maybe this isn't an outside work detail within the meaning of the regulation so what am i supposed to do with this if i know i'm over time so i l the question is does that violate the fourth amendment in miami the answer is yes or no or i don't know and it would violate the fourth amendment but i don't believe that's what happens here i believe what happened here that's what new year's  and that but after angus interview interviewed after dumping as well in fact i interviewed after duncan and he said that he was following post orders and he chose to make it fair by allowing inmates to choose a number and remember there were only four and however we do not believe there is because the judge akins determination that it was understood that in these returning from an outside work detail meet this criteria of there being a reasonable belief of contraband  and and meet new years would have the burden of proof to determine that in fact it was for some other reason he did not present enough evidence on the record to show that there was a retaliatory reason why the subjective views of the o was the sole reason why he kicked them out then that could be a cause of concern for the fourth amendment i don't believe that's the issue here i don't believe the subjective reasoning is at issue here because there was a reasonable belief for contraband to being concealed it was a legitimate in a logical were going to get strip searched unless he was told to stop by his peers and so because of that that's the legitimate penna logical interest that's involved and judge you can find the fact that there was a reasonable belief to believe that contraband could have been concealed based on so i think that the criticism that these initial grievances by mr new notes were inadequate to alert the prison to the nature of the claim just because they didn't repeat the search or state that it was officer that were his problem and that the prison officials weren't responding to them i mean he just sort of kept asking for higher ranking he said that he he asked for a ladder or a permanent step and he didn't ask for treatment or he didn't even but i would want to bring out is simply that not only is there no evidence that prison engaged in routine search is on return from this kind of work and therefore have been defining it as an outside work to take all along in that you're you know you like to file legal papers you like to speak up about your rights or worse you know what if somebody said i wanted to search you because of you know your race or your religion and certainly we  not routinely conducted in finding thank you very much thank both sides very interesting case and good arguments on both sides before i let you go though i would like to say one thing which is which i customarily say the perkins firm took his case on