at this time we would like to take public testimony on any agenda item and please remember to limit your testimony to three minutes if you have not been able to conclude in three minutes you'll be given an additional thirty seconds if you're still not finished after everyone has had a chance to testify will be given an additional two minutes to conclude your testimony and we have a number of agenda items on the number of items on the agenda today so if you have specific comments on a particular agenda item and you're able to stay through the agenda to that item please make your comments at that time and with that being said we'd like to open up public testimony to anyone who would like to testify on any agenda item he's come up to the microphone state your name in the agenda item that you're testifying if anyone would like to testify please come for before me you know do we go by the order that we signed in no anyone can testify no but if you're going to testify in a specific agenda item and you can stay for that agenda item then you can testify at that time was located behind a stall what i know about the hotel is not a whole month whole bunch because as cool i know for east then we would come to town big deal back in the day to go shopping but we always knew that there was a hotel behind some to point to told me that there was another hotel above shop in and i remember there was a balcony kind of deal above pop in all the tiles used to hang out on the balcony but i didn't know there was a hotel but the concept of having a hotel in downtown kind of guy is not a new one so i would think that should bash any her this morning she said i could use her name in my testimony she her mom used to back back in the sixty's the fifty's i believe and the hotel was essentially for overnighters so business people would stay overnight families that were on a budget that was their exact words that were on a budget would use a hotel and i would like to think that the water project would serve the same purpose as far as being this it's not a huge project i know when you hear the word hotel it's it brings about negativity i get it but it's not it's an eight room hotel six thing people would be roaming the streets of conflict max occupancy we would like to see them ok would like to encourage the economy you would be hiring them is the water we hiring for five people to run the place that's four or five people that can stay i'm sick and tired of hearing  he fixed the sea meant sidewalk in front of his property if everybody did that wouldn't that be nice and you go around town who's responsible for this the nobody's passing the buck cement sidewalk in front of the property i think this is kind of as far as the public bathroom he wants to put in a public bathroom first i told him by either you all or you really really nice there are bathrooms in town i think the state department or the state building they have a bathroom i used to go to kilometers surely rollins has wanted children but you know you have to patronize the place i think i actually know because i would just go to s this is sensitive and sensible development is nothing i don't think i would be years standing to support a project that was detrimental and destructive to let alone to create you know com projects like this we can harness that energy to fight maybe we can save our people so they can live healthier lives and thank you thank you very much remember you can testify on each individual agenda item as it comes up just please come to the microphone and state your name and the agenda item that you're testifying on my name is jean ferguson and i operate friendly farm we do the sour dip sourdough bread sales it saturday market and i thought against the project water project i just have questions  are one of the vendors that sell our bread along that area of the sidewalk on that property and just wondering what the future would what it means for our future i know they suggested moving us on the opposite side of the walk sidewalk in between the sidewalk in the street i'm not sure how that will work out there's only so much room there there's quite a few vendors so i just have a lot of questions of what or what it means yeah i just at the end i just wanted to know so now you set up in that area you're on mr waters property right now that's correct and there's no agreement for you to be there we just pay a monthly fee or or weekly but we usually are there every week so we pay by the month and that's directly to the auto i presume so way oh ok all right thank you thank you very much anyone else like to testify ok last call all right so close public testimony and move on to the next agenda item i don't know or see turn this over to  item letter d approval of the minutes of the april twelfth two thousand and seventeen meeting would entertain a motion for approval we've got a motion by lawrence and second by was a jo any discussion all in favor these raise your right hand one my understanding is that that item is time sensitive and i'm kind of worried that we might not get to it by the end of the meeting today so i would like to consider moving that up somewhere with approval by all of the members of the commission we can amend the agenda for that agenda item so if you would like to make a motion to amend the agenda let's do it in that matter  i'm i'm happy to suggest that we take it after item easy one before item if so only issue that i would see with that is we do have item number one and two and three are scheduled public hearings so as not to interrupt the forward motion of those applications if we would need to make sure that we at least begin those public hearings as we have in the past with other with other movement that the three items on four section f public hearings they were all required notice in the newspaper so there was some expense that all the applicants had to go through if we don't start the public hearing on those three then don't have to re notice so i just wanted to throw that out there for your consideration when you guys decide whether you want to move up at m g two after but it's up to you day deadline to submit the commission's recommendation to the council is august twenty fourth thank you so we would have to take action at today's meeting or the following so we do have the money from the twenty third that are scheduled meetings that we could pick this up so those are options concerning the ordinance i believe it would speed up the process i also believe that because it's such a critical and important subject  for many people in this community i remember our own thing don't put off tomorrow what you can do today so we've already had a few meetings canceled believe that three hearing projects are time sensitive but i would just really encourage us all to take up the ordinance before we consideration when discussing this bill so you don't really need to testify again if you've already done so but we don't want to exclude you from testifying today q so is there a motion one to three opposed gives a six and we have stenson so we would have the first time you heard this so i have you know i tried my hardest to get that in and so i just want to move on with the agenda if people can look at the record in the tapes of my efforts to try to address this resolution that's why i voted to just continue on ok so the motion fails we will continue the agenda and as it is chair yes can staff please explain to this commission what will have been if no decision or recommendation on this ordinance comes from this commission that will be final like any other resolution that is the council could move forward if they choose to every day as has happened in the past if they really want your recommendation th ok thank you created and we've taken up enough time on this so let's move forward with the agenda so we can get to all of the agenda items today so move forward with agenda item communication mr jr i'm sorry pardon me mr coelho one can say whole director department of parks and recreation requesting a special management area a minor permit in order to abandon the existing cesspool connected to the properties public restroom and to and before he comes up i just want to note that they have been working with deal in our all c c l because it is in conservation district and part of their requirement was to come through this process before they finish up the rest of their application but i'll turn the time over to mr moore so he can continue the presentation thank  good morning i'm brain tomorrow with c b s engineering and civil said have you all been given copies of the construction plans civil going to pass out a few copies of the i believe it's exhibit four in the package that was previously distributed to us on this is the second we met with you all about four months ago to discuss their own elite you project which is similar to this one the deal with this one is going to be the same as own elite you were going to aband the existing cesspool the difference with this one is that the department of parks and recreation has requested that we install a new septic tank and reopen this comfort station and the park we have received a permit from the department of health to do the septic system we also have an archaeological monitoring plan that is conditionally approved pending your approval and this last set of revisions that we've submitted there will this so if you all have any questions who would like to testify on this particular agenda item we have no open that up for public testimony just this item only and there's also a lot of burial cultural person going to be really important we definitely need bathrooms down there and it's totally supported if that's what we're talking about bathroom but again besides that  ocean from the septic tank system i think the consultant will last a consultant to go over that when he gives his testimony so i'm sure he'll be able to answer those questions during his presentation but yeah i think there's go some kind of negative impacts in this conservation district and i want to know what if there are alternatives to the septic tank the county or considered what alternatives  besides a septic tank we get any answers or we don't get any answers or get the answers during the during the presentation this is a public testimony at this point or one of the good examples of what you do next to the ocean ok thank you and would anyone else like to testify in this particular item i mean like thank you was wondering a ball if something is uncovered during the process of construction what happens to it so if that falls and it says that the monitoring consultant will temporarily curie all recovered materials in their laboratory space except for human remains and associated burial items which remain at the site until a permanent more suitable curation identifying the land owners may request to curie  all recovered materials once analysis has been completed so in the process of as if we recover any type of artifacts besides e knows of that still alive but two more more likely to not you have to do your research and this is where that what the state goes by you have to go and find out who the people are from the original awardees on down and who the descendants are because more likely than not they are the descendants and anything that's brought up should be returned to them or should be put put back with remains that should not be inside a trailer a box or even acid free paper bags you know none of that should be happening they should be left to their rightful inheritance in other words leave them alone and they shouldn't be moved anywhere else that's their rightful inheritance is there any other questions i have a question because i am concerned about it yeah so being that  this project because as it stands this is the land owner may request to curie all recovered materials so if the landowner doesn't request because for myself i'm i'm concerned about the monitors and their training as far as archaeology is and i'm particular about who is put on there and i don't think they should just put anybody who just has some paperwork you know i think that issues had to be somebody who's experienced and they should be be very respectful there's protocol involved here once you reveal that evy to the sunlight it's it's a sin according to our whole muslim ummah or religion and so on which we abide by still we believe in that and in the police or ancestors and we know that messing with evy or if i'm to put conditions on to this project in or on i'm just thinking how we can resolve the so maybe after on the site we can have a discussion if there's a bully or because i would like i don't know how many already because of development and permits and stuff going that was part of the reason that when i was so special because that was where a large population was and there's evie all the over the place over need to think about lori is to the guy and the putting back and when is that going to happen and how are they being treated when they're out should they be removed i say no ok any other questions ok that will go ahead and close public testimony for this item and we'll continue on with the presentation by the  consultant yes it's true to address the questions there will there will definitely be a monitor on site at all times as stated in the archeological monitoring plan that actually states that there will be one monitor for each piece of equipment which in this case there is only going to be one piece of equipment but he will remain on site at all times until the project is completed as for the effects of the new septic tank what we're doing here is abandoning the existing cesspool so this is actually an improvement in the area where as existing there is a cess pool that is not monitored in is not currently up to code this will install a septic tank and a leach field about a five hundred square foot leach field which will bring everything up to code and will be an improvement as far as other options this project is coming from higher up it's coming from the environmental protection agency and the two options that they have given us are to install this septic tank with either a leach field or a seepage pit and we have done the calculations and we believe that the leach field is the best option it's a much shallower way of distributing the waste water keeps it far away from the water table spreads it out that's what we believe is the best option for that answers your question so i think if you have the questions can ask the question after outside of the meeting have been offline conversation right now we're in the testimony from the consultant and what impacts one of the negative impacts on the river in the ocean and is their own alternative to a septic tank and have compost toilets been considered and hopes a company can show leadership by coming up with alternative ways to put in bathroom so specifically for the composting toilet that in this case is not approved by the e p a so that's not an option that we can pursue we've done those in the past and we can get those approved by the department of health but as far as going a step up to the e p a that's not an option the effects that it's going to have i guess and that's what that's what i was trying to answer it's simply going to reverse the effects so where is the cess pool was what's causing the water to go deeper and it wasn't monitored and it could get through that dirt this is going to put the water in a sealed septic tank it's going to be an improvement that there will be some grading where  we remove to drop the septic tank in but we're dropping it in over the existing cess pool and then we'll be filling that back up so as far as any runoff damage to the rivers ocean anything like that there shouldn't be any better i think you should be no no negative impacts that's correct thanks brian and thank you for taking the time to explain that short don't see that being an issue that he would like to be there and the monitoring will be done by an archaeologist somewhere scientific consultants and do you have any other organization that will be monitoring that as well besides not at the present time thank you mean other questions distribution after the septic is where we have the options of doing a leach field or a seepage essentially this is a leach field is twenty feet by twenty seven feet and it only sits about four feet below the ground at its deepest point the seepage pit would be a much more concentrated potentially an eight foot diameter hole that went much deeper into the ground so instead of a widespread shallow field it would be a very deep concentrated hole to distribute the waste water why is that you his is part of a mitigation of something that we're not a world not particularly sure how to answer that i just know that this came from at the department on the mainland this would be a five hundred gallon tank but the twelve hundred fifty gallon is what is readily accessible ottawa who now we most weiland so that's typically the tank that we go with because it is the cheapest as far as what's actually sized for the project that's the least field which is the five hundred forty it's size for five hundred forty gallons so the tank is a little bit bigger than it needs to be but it's for sure the cheapest option and can more than handle the amount of waste water that will be coming through so what would be the capacity per toilet that i could have or got capacity now because there's just one female and one service by department of health standards five restrooms or five bedrooms so the potential to add more restrooms is there with this installation yes absolutely think so for the recommendation so in consideration of the foregoing determination and somy minor permit is required for the proposed action pursuant to the after manchin the department recommends approval the estimated miner permit subject to the following conditions that number one that the project shall require that work be in accordance with the c d f engineering site plan c ten submitted on september fourteenth two thousand and sixteen and representation is made to the department number two the best management practices shall be implemented number three that the archaeological monitoring plan shall be implemented on a qualified archaeological monitor shall be present during all activities in order to document any start properties which may be encountered and to provide mitigation measures as necessary a number for the other projects shall be initiated by july thirty first twenty one thousand and shall be completed within one year of said initiation and that the full compliance with all the other applicable governmental requirements shall be rendered in consideration of the foregoing the department recommends that the moral cuyp planning commission adopt the department report prepared for the state's july twelve twenty seventeen meeting but its for july twenty six today's meeting as its findings of facts conclusions of law and decisions in order and to authorize the director planning to transmit said decisions in order on behalf of the commission so i'll just change the july twelfth and put it to today's date this like the ok with the condition that we have the mr huhne a peace organization available for that project while there during their project that the project of the water tank i mean the septic so we're asking i had asked brandon if it would be a problem if you guys would be there why they're digging that yeah i know that's an additional what's the best day and what not the cheapest but what's the best you know and i've i've you know if they pay me to same amount as the archaeologist i'll be do my time is it is just as important and so  comes down to protecting our equipment and and making sure that they're protected appropriately and with the respect that that it's deserved  and so that means all kinds of stuff we're going to be talking about negotiating actually most likely with the with the people who's putting up the county or wherever that is what i you know as far as or as far as the repository so good ok what i'm trying to do is put a motion here together ok so i guess would i have to amend my piece organization to be an additional cultural monitor if he should accept because at this time they cannot determine whether or not they will accept it if they should accept and it's been seconded by lor members i've heard only one testify are in favor of the bathrooms and that's what i was going to want to know do the people  facility then the next as the fire had questions which i think were answered so for me it's all about what is the community down there want if they want bathrooms i think we should give them bathrooms that work in function and are safe and clean and that's all i got to say along i will not be voting in favor of the motion but i did want to discuss it and i think for me at this point in time it doesn't seem that the county has done enough due diligence on its part to reach out to members of the community and that also from the culture perspective we don't have a culture  has western thought all philosophies so i think it's unfair to ask mr hahn to be at this time to provide that  oversight instead i would say that the archaeological monitoring plan that was submitted by the county is in my opinion inadequate and that it needs to be worked on and i could be very specific to the county as to what we would like to see if this is the fur and brought that to us and i'm happy to offer up that let's see no further discussion all in favor of the motion to approve the s m a adopt the department's recommendation and report and as the families organization to be available for the project for monitoring should they accept only favor raise your right hand seven in favor any opposed one opposed laura buchanan so the motion passes thank you very much thank and i asked him the question on the side whether there's going to be any impacts and so we're going to take a short break thank you very much we're going to recess the meeting five minutes when we reconvene the meeting thank you so we're going to make an exception if there are no objections from the commissioners would like to make an exception to allow two more people to give their testimony on their previous item they had a desire to ask some questions and also inform the community about certain things are there any objections from the commission no objections from me  this is testimony not a question and answer session and each testify will be given three minutes no objections at the judy would you please come up and share something clear you raise your children how to do it and you will never depart from it that's the way i was raised in this way or raise my children to you have to love what's around you love good and do good that's why racing and that's the way i am god each person might like he is the provider of every one of us he is the one of the gives us the birth of life so much things drugs all that be killing themselves that is really something that we can really look into so something like this will drive somebody off and will do what we do go ahead you have three minutes to give your testimony we reopened it on the previous item for cutting off mid sentence last time there was a request there was a bathroom break request so ok ok thank you very much appreciated ok so we're going to close the public testimony that we reopen and right now we are on agenda item and if there are no objections from the commissioners if we could take the public hearing for item f one and f two at the same time there are four different permits but it's the same project so it's for mr stanley water requesting which i read this correctly public hearing from mr stanley water requesting county special use permit for the water commercial building and also requesting a special management area use permit for the water commercial building and hotel do want to separate motions made for the two separate items of course thank you for clarifying that ok so this time we're going to open up the public hearing for agenda item f number one mr stanley water requesting a county special use permit for the water commercial building in order to operate an eight bedroom transit vacation rental in the business country town district at fifty six  water requesting a special management area use permit for the water commercial building and hotel the commercial retail and transit vacation rental building and related improvements in the business country town business district at fifty six  three zero zero two zero eight one kind of a guy i little more guy s m one two zero one three zero zero zero three civil lopez staff planner we did have a request from one public testifier who has a previous engagement and he'd like to testify so this time i'd like to open up the public hearing and as mr shawn ellis to come up and testify please knows you know and we don't even have a rehab that's rule rehab where you know we can hold the people and then teach him hopeful get off the drugs because i just lost on fri and left last month who is a classmate of mine at age forty one who hanged himself and he was on drugs and i don't look to see his name because that that's not coming to all your meetings  i heard you say you know put it up to the public right now what we're doing is shawn ok we open it because just because he had somewhere he had to be we want to go through the presentation because a presentation is going to have some information that might help to answer questions for the public testimony so if it if it's ok with you if we could you want to share rufus said ok we'll do palmer and then after after palmer then what we're going to do is we're going to have the presentation and then we'll have the testimony after that is that ok with the commissioner's ok i yes or go ahead today please please state your name here my name is palmer inaki and i'm actually know we have many reasons and the reason for me personally is we've been coming to the media as well and i feel you do not represent us well you do not stand for molokai you do not stand for us our people oh i know and you definitely don't love us you know because we come here every time we protest and we tell you we don't want this we don't like this we really don't want that you know but it seems to me when i watch and i see i sit there in the chair and i look at you and you seem to be the instigator to all of these people here that stands on the paddle and you seem to know swindle folks here and there that's what i see and that's what i've been watching all this time so we as a community stand we want you missed the chairperson to be boehmer if you want to get a hold of council after the meeting and have an off line conversation about about your requests and how to handle that thank you thank you thank you chair i'm civil up is the planner planner on the project as in one twenty thirteen zero zero three and twenty seventeen zero zero three so we do have the in fact i'll just bring mr luigi up because he has a presentation and then i'll conclude with that thank you thank you very much this is just the foundation of the building as the second of the parking so to conclude i just want to inform the commission of the packet the report that you received so the report that you  is as of july fifth twenty seventeen when the report was submitted and we had new information from the consultant july nineteenth so you do have hearing and hear from the public and then that their information will help us to begin our deliberations so anyone like to testify on this project please come forward and remember state the mali planning the commissioners everybody is trying to move comical chi town out from the lowlands that's my understanding so are of course our fire department has left  department you know because it is a harbor town and we know it's a harbor town however we also know that there's a transition to try to move the town a little bit further up or back so we already evacuating people when there's tsunamis and stuff and so that's kind of my concern about the population how is our our beautiful town going to continue to grow we all do love our town it's our town and so that's just what i want to share is only because i've been you know hearing the county council guys talk a lot about pete could you please come back is a question from commissioner kelly actually basically i just want to ask you from my own record are you for or against this project but i don't think i can answer that i think i would rather have something more a little bit more thought like my brothers were saying i'd like to see more focus on  our island and our islands needs not accommodating people we haven't yet met i'd rather take care of the ones that we already know that are here and those needs we talked about drugs we talk about all kinds of stuff that's going to impact the town will be a real concern on population and do we have enough restrooms to even have enough of that kind stuff again infrastructure is concerned so if you were to ask me and my for a hotel or against a hotel i can't really say you know the fire lane is right there i'm not sure how coal's how much of the fire department i don't know any of that but anyway like i say i do know that there's always been a talk about moving the town and within forty years when we're all dead and not here they hope that most of the tower will be away carefully i've been involved in a lot of planning on this island and nobody has ever requested a hotel in conoco that i don't we have areas that we've designated for hotels i don't know if we have problems filling up the hotel that we have to go build another one my wife keeps telling me that the town is getting too crowded she don't know anybody in the supermarket anymore  who want to do things that are going to be beneficial to his community so i'm really against outsiders coming year and making this kind of major impact on our lives on what corey thank you these commissioners thank you for being here today my name is daniel in law i work in the gallery gallaher building right next to this law and i've been there since two thousand and seven so that's ten years few months in the back parking lot of the gallagher area to find out how many cancer causing p c b eason toxic heavy metals are in the soil back there today as we speak this morning i drove into that back parking lot and the back half of the parking lot is taped off with caution tape it looks like a crime scene and so what they're doing now what they've been doing since you guys ok that is the sound of drilling every day shallow wells ok i feel like my health and safety has been compromised i have in the ten years i've been working there seen dust flying everywhere flying right into the air air vents for the air conditioning of the whole area and the people that were that attend the saturday markets the dust devils that fly through that place is incredible and we don't even know yet how much the c b s and toxic heavy metals in the soil already the county and state could be looking at a lawsuit you know i feel like my health and safety has been compromised now you guys are going to talk about digging breaking ground when the results haven't even come in from what's happening right now to find out what's going on  it's not even about me i'm looking at my son these children that are coughing and they're not sick ok please help protect our community ok don't put a lawsuit on the commission the county and the state and the developers and everybody else because we don't know what that soil has leached the water the ground they're putting shallow wells we need we need more information on what's going on there before any of this should be allowed to move forward we thank you right now because i visit people who are sick and dying on this island because of cancer the list goes on and on it was there my friends it was in a tumor in my dear ex husband's back we had a biopsy done on it it was in his back we need to have this t doing this trying to help us they don't know what they're putting their lives on the line when they come to this island because it's a compelling need it with all kinds of stuff so i s do when you find out or if you find out the levels are so high that you can't take to the soil out here because that's what they're going to have to do you have to dig it up put it on a barge to take it out here you know if they can't they're going to cap it so i'm saying people get ready for that to happen if it dies answers and the questions and for one thing i noticed it did not mention that at one time and this either was when i was really young or prior to that it was a service station it's planned it's not written in there that it was a service station at one time also just going to town and the stores or even the back of the bank area the parking is so limited and i noticed they mentioned parking inherit thirteen parking spaces i don't see where it's going to be but i cannot imagine that only  thirteen spaces would be necessary for a place like this to exist where really fighting for parking in town as it is i think that would be a problem a hotel in town that makes no sense to me i know once upon a time there were hotels that were adjoining with the infrastructure that is there but it has since been blocked off and is just stores  so i am like how they talked about having places that are zone for hotels i think they should take advantage of that and not make it right smack in town i don't think it's necessary again they jump on board with the drainage we don't have the drainage system in comic i town they've been working on a drainage system and trying to have it come out to the ocean and get our approvals from the canoe shafts that are on the beach side and i didn't even give thought to what comes down with the drainage i was just thinking water but there's a lot more that comes down in the drainage and so right now the drainage that started i can't even see how long ago it was is just because in the ground with grills on the pot that fills up just like cups because they go nowhere so this would be adding to that also and i would jump on board with the dust that we've been feasting in town alone so i don't know i think there's a lot of things that we need to consider i don't know if they didn't fund this place on having this you know i didn't have much time to even look into it but i did take the time to look through the plan and there was a lot of things that were not addressed and as life are here along with my children and my grandchildren you know i feel that our planning when you leave the net and appreciate what you have i need to share that had be being checked on or you guys on the ball or bar there is something really really important to us if you're going to do something or you want to say something that you know what make sure you got your story right and this is why i come to see i'll post it i'll post it because why my life my grandchildren and my great grandchildren and the future to come the generations to come i'm not going to be along but the thing is that we prepare for them yes they're in life so i just wanted to share that with you thank you so i came upon this planned here with mr watling and he was saying if it was very important to him he should have been here at least we could have he knew who he was who he is and that he could hear we can hear his side and he could have heard our side to basically is just a small little area small very small could have build a playground there we could have build a nice art museum there or even a nice eatery for people that are selling food for the swap meet our farmers market we are always thinking about development and what happens here is that we forget changes we have a lot of people that come with new ideas and they want to change more i and then we forget that the people that live here when these new changes occur and it doesn't do well they leave and guess who has to clean up their mess as the people that live here on wall cry ok so we had mess again unemployment then you have hotel or shore you have all these development and then you forget that they leave because they make their money they call the meat their money and then they leave and then the people here have to pick up and then they have to start all over but we forget to introduce our self so these developers are these people to forget to introduce who i am because they have a choice to come back and have the choice to stay but i don't want our band the people that were here they leave to come back i got a new principal she wants to make changes but she forgot to enter self introduce hersel to the community and that's what's happening we forget the new developers are coming and it's destroying our use our our people or i can see here i just seen something that wasn't appropriate and we just want to live with still no traffic no mcdonald's no big major corporation we're just simple people china make ends meet with what we have development is not in our core because if it was i wouldn't have to i and majority of those people that are coming wouldn't move here think about that this building how long will it stay and when he leave and made his corner money who's going to fix that you didn't ask my kids that are going to be here two years from two to generations from now i didn't ask them that i agree to have they don't see it and serving a clear community need i don't think it's necessary think it's a necessary development even though it will create five to eight jobs or something like that it's going to displace numerous vendor is at the swap meet and those are jobs to they're the smallest of small businesses and small business is the lifeblood of our community not seven brick and mortar store fronts they just need a place to park their tents and their people and sell their stuff which is what that area serves us now so i'm just worried about the future for the vendors that are going to be displaced there and water i'm worried about the water problem in the current two thousand and one and the latest update of the community plan and the latest draw to it does cite water  as being a problem and the u s g s studies legal cases that states current and future demand for water exceeds sustainable the pli so i just think we need to be really careful and cautious about any future development that contributes to that problem the water problem i do see this project as being a pet project for people with whimsical ideas and money to back it up money  see the ideas through i don't i just don't see it being something that's necessary and i think that there are better uses for that space than a hotel ok thank you very much see we're going to close the public hearing on this item we're also going to take a brief five minute recess so this item is this meeting is in recess for five minutes think you reconvene the meeting them ok planning commission for july twenty sixth two thousand and seventeen so we've concluded the presentation from the department in the i'm sorry we've concluded the public hearing the fire situation i know there is a hydrant across the street as well as down the street from there but and i know in the report they say that it's fine they're not going to be able to turn all three or two of the hydrogen is on at the same time and base my experience knowing that through a fire department they concluded because when you do that and a pipeline is only so big then your pressure goes down she's going to get less water from the two horses but yet they report that sufficient water is available and so my question is ok any other questions yes john i have questions ok i notice on the response a lot of the responses in the packet that we have used very speculative language instead of definitive language words like is not expected to adversely there are no anticipated rather than be more direct is that purpose fall or is that because we don't know  molokai electric area and i know it stretched all the way back to the parking lot you know in the back where where the thomas trade center or whatever you call it now is located because these the store all the transformers has but that area where he was i'm not sure because i remember seeing the site where the tanks are about not sure for sure that it was out there but based on the  that they will do an investigation samples so twenty sixteen zero zero four that as someone refers to the primary property which the art are doing right now which you see on the covering of there and some equipment that's being done at this moment so that that number of four s m sixteen four is regarding that property so as someone twenty sixteen zero zero three is regarding the abiding properties which does include mr wattles property around that surrounding property so it's that whole block saw what is anticipated yeah it's an anticipated project if they deem that to any sixteen zero zero four project does find that had their findings true that they are some type of contamination if that they find the findings to be true they will move forward with their investigation for twenty sixteen zero zero three so it's all i had any type of contract with those people using his property not ok thank you ok any other questions schematics that was presented in your presentation today which is the engineering part i was kind of wondering why the engineering part was an included in our paraphernalia for the report it would have been a concern for me because that's all the questions i have a have a traffic i have a ball drainage that type of  l so i had that type of questions and because of that for myself until i get the schematics i cannot move forward on approving this  that the community plan that has yet to be approved over the next ten years does strongly recommend in for the culti to look at other options out of the flood zone and sea level rise so that is heavily repeated in the draft plan that the community council committee is so knowing that we don't have all the people work that we should have for this size of this project i don't know all i would in the interest of time for this commission i would like for this commission to deferred this project and i can work with the staff planner to see what information we would need for when this thing comes back to us for approval wardle i don't know whether he want to continue all i don't know i know he was pretty upset the first time i can imagine you know if you want to defer the whole thing and we in the paper  report here it actually does have the preliminary drainage report the talks about the drainage of the site the surrounding areas how the water will be contained on the property so what page is that on the pages aren't numbered but it's toward the back of the page it's about the back maybe twenty fifteen pages from the back fifteen pieces of paper from the back if that from the applicant or the applicants before the apple complex on page two item for existing drainage conditions so we know that the existing drainage conditions are inadequate because it says there are no saw it goes on and i don't find that says that the flood rate map of september was september twenty five two thousand and nine i believe that that has been upped the even because we're depending on the navy much date the increase in runoff from a fifty year one hour storm generated from the project site saw i would have thought that it would have been a one hundred year calculation instead of the fifty year calculation because of the size of the project thus well the county required really does the requirement by the culture we'll every single business in town we did in the past through the year i'm over here parking area and conveyed to perforate it pipes the perforated pipes will be sized at a minimum to accommodate the increase in runoff from the fifty or one hour storm generated from the project site so when i read th i would normally turn to the engineering schematics and i would look where that is since you have to contain all the runoff it within your project site and this is not adding to the kind of yes i need to know where that is how th that's why we never get to the tropic so public works that comment and i don't see the comments in here but the traffic was addressed by department of public works engineering division and they suggested preliminary that the traffic assessment report will come in during the building permit phase of the project and to adjust the traffic of the current situation  will actually alleviate traffic that you see now because all of the swap meet will be gone because the building will be there and so the new parking that will be installed will compensate for all of the offsite parking that occurs now just for a future in the community plan a cultural park is designated as the economic activity where swap meet farmer's market that that would be the host of what our current area is and so it's fortunate that the vendors can do what they do right now because mr watt open up his his property to do such things so that was a huge benefit for the island but now having for him that wanting to put this hotel is that we want to relocate where the plan was already design that park would be that designated area ok and i would respectfully disagree with that the vendors are the only issue for congestion because if there's no parking in it backs up all the way to roll in service station and i've been included in that traffic multiple times in times that did not have vendors in so they this is go alleviate this congestion right here is because those that will be coming in to the hotel the ingress will be off you come park park park reverse it's a one way and you come out to m and allowing traffic to floor utilizing the county road within that area even more soul because i'm assuming if that's an eagerness you're going to have to remove one stall where his where holes trucks are part in order for visibility and us just the way it works and i haven't seen how that looks either and then in reference to the perforated pipes and the kitchen and bass in where is that in reference to the parking stalls on that plan is my car parking on it or not the motions will be separate it does mention the applicant offering up a bathroom for public use but it does not say that the the bathroom will  in an area that is not zoned to accommodate that that's correct ok soul being familiar with the rules and regulations in chapter e requirements with a special use permit or is that a given it's not clearly worded  here let me kind of go back so i can give you a little historical events so i apologize if i haven't done that in the beginning so i could carry through the timeline of this application so this application was submitted to the department back in tw thirteen and so there was a i was not the planner at that time so it was the previous panel before me that had this project so they had events from twenty thirteen four years to now they had a lot of different changes that occurred one of the currents of the changes were that in twenty fourteen the country time business district was amended the ordinance was amended and soul when he submitted the estimate he also in a conditional permit doing twenty thirteen in twenty fourteen council passed the amended country town business district ordinance to include a transit accommodations as one to twelve bedrooms but at that time it was never brought to our attention until we actually had it as a public hearing for a conditional permit and so with this permit got pooled and we require that the part man requested that the applicant come use permit because it does not fit as a hotel category if you look at nineteen point one five point zero five zero under conditional uses which states that a hotel needs to come in for a conditional permit it's under nineteen point one five point zero three zero as especially use so that is when the applicant needed to retract their conditional permit and come in for a county special use permit to fulfill those requirements of such and so he to today he has filled the use as a transit vacation renters between want to twelve bedrooms which conclude the guidelines of the country town business district and we in your report page other other regulations and governmental other governmental approve the country town business district based upon the guidelines of the and i don't know if they don't want to add anything to that district so it requires a special use permit train jailbreak ation mentos up to twelve bedrooms is listed as a special use and only during the country tom business district approval subject to the approval is that they have to go through an approval of the landscaping and parking plant so that is when the parking and the landscaping would get administrative i think it's a matter of fairness if other people have to be subjected when we using conditional use permit and special use permits in areas that are not appropriately for the use because we're going to use or conditional use permit as part of the conditions in the special use or conditional use permit do you think the applicant would be ok with adopting  the requirements within chapter nineteen for the uses of the short term rentals or chance and i would tell you what parts of it i like i like that i have that there's somebody twenty four seven that i can call if i have an issue with any of the guest in your hotel i like that somebody has to be available to respond i think that takes the onus off of the police to respond notification signage all of that just the regular stuff it's not a real big deal but if we require other people the same requirement if you i say if this is no matter or let the people involved what to do like you say put a sign just plain water and water is fine but if you maybe every reason the studio but if you think we have to have a message on a site twenty four hour a day i don't know what that there will be a number to call yes absolutely  i also was concerned about the length of the special use permit i understand that significant capital improvement funds are going to be poured into this project  mitigated or closed and i know that there were gas stations there that were closed as well as in kind of the kind they are imports so i was kind of worried about that when you start to you might have this big saw on page three it's the paragraph down below under a description of the property number one it says that the applicant and his wife purchased a vacant property on december fifth two thousand and six prior to this for the subject property had been sitting vacant since approximately nine hundred ninety one at which time a fire destroyed their previous napa auto parts store building post fire work was limited to clearing of the resulting in debris and when the department of health came in they stated that the fire kind of killed off the surface and subsurface well thank you for pointing that all i did see net and then right after that i rolled saw what happened to the contaminated soil soul that's why i say they give you a mr watt of credit for trying to pull off one project in comicbook i really do i am concerned about sea level ri information that is not completely true on the economic uses it says that since the closing of honey in an old hotel the mengal mean there have been no lodging options in as within that district within that area much i would like to also include about the those that actually will be staying there and what the purpose it served for at the time of mr wattles application we had the ferry system working and the idea was those that come off the ferry for businesses and those family related that they can just walk into a convenience to walk to town do their business do what they have to do and go back so the convenience was when he did that was for that that ferry option so that those that come in by plane because an airport are so far to go to rent a car in a vehicle it was much much easier for them coming off the ferry to come town and do town come into town and stay in town do their business and then stay there and then leave and so that was part of his original application and within his assessment report c p twenty seventeen zero zero zero three the planning department finds that the proposed use meets the criteria for issuance of a county special use permit the use would be in harmony with the area where structure is located further the propose this approved by the planning director number three talks about liability insurance and number four is the shall develop the property in substantial compliance with  zero point zero three zero of them are we county cold that the full compliance with all applicable governmental requirements shall be rendered that the county special use permit conditions shall be enforced pursuant to the provisions of chapter nineteen point five three zero and thousand point five three zero point zero three zero as amended and the rules for administrators procedures and civil fines for violations and for the  in consideration of the foregoing the planning department recommends that the planning commission the planning departments report and recommendation prepared for the july twenty sixth twenty seven thousand meeting as the findings of facts conclusions of law and would anyone like to make a motion and adopt the report as presented ok so we have a motion to approve the recommendations and accept the report for the special used permit for the water building michael drew second let's have some discussion is there any discussion immediate area use permit and then the recommendation says to use permit shall be valid until july thirty first twenty twenty seven that is ten years i would like for then that we get to review if there's been issues if the planning director is approving then we don't know it we don't see it and then number three is all of the liability stuff and i wanted some clarification on the liability it says stanley wada and its successors and permitted a sign that would mean that everybody that is renting a commercial space or staying in the room shall exercise reasonable due care to third parties or i'm sorry  and permitted a sign that is his successor is an ownership or management and so it wouldn't apply to renters individual units it's if he sells it and then the requirements from the short term rental and transit vacation rentals i didn't think to bring it with me today would you have that available and would you have any recommendations from there that would perhaps put more oversight over the project besides having a contact person available twenty four seven you want or there's nothing inserted regarding any time extension there after we have regular verbiage that yes we do and it's usually through to department but i know some permit would have some very big and there would either be time extension in front of the commission or a time extension made through the director so are you requesting commissioner conditions that are on the recommended conditions on a short term mental in response to what in regards to limited liability no i'm just saying that we have a hotel we have an eight bedroom hotel it's not like the ritz carlton where you going to have one front this walking we don't even know how this operation is we don't know how they renting the rooms i don't know who's providing oversight for these people we've had one pice the fi it is seeing that he has concerns that it's going to turn into a hub for late night time activities  just seeing if we have more oversight or a little bit more structure it would be more palatable for me to say we we're running the hotel ok so there has to be some oversight that's not clearly delineated within the recommendations so i think to move forward to if we can move this forward do you have a specific recommendation of oversight that you'd like to as a condition and amend the motion that's why i was asking for  example condition seven under the short term rental i mean i can state for example that the permit holders shall provide photographic evidence that a two square foot sign is displayed along the main axis rolled identifying the name of of the permit number and the name of the manager the manager's twenty four hour telephone number and the words of the department of planning zoning administration and if i spent division then the phone number eight zero eight two seven zero seven two five three will be posted prior to starting operations or within thirty calendar days from the date of the date of this the approval letter other specific conditions include that the house rules shall be prominently displayed in that the wedding and shall be included in the rental agreement which shall be signed by each registered  guess no parties or group gatherings other than registered guest shellac or that short to run the show not operate when the manager is not accessible i mean i don't know which we've got twenty twenty three conditions so going off of this about the designation of a manager someone who you can that it says here statement of this it needed managers  business and residential address telephone numbers managers can your debt any change in a manager's address or telephone number you need to convey their and that that should be accessible to all guests and neighbors and county agencies and then it goes on to say three a e number one i just want to repeat that you want to add you want to add number one the time extension including just five years down to ten years then you want to add conditions number nineteen point six five point zero three zero d number three eggs number one and number two bedrooms so that's the mean this project already and it says i'm looking at page fourteen of the of the project of the application especially as per michelle comply with the criteria stablish for permit and the nineteen point six five what so ready to answer my question and i think one of the things to note too is the short term rental rules apply to residential rezoned properties this is a property that zoned business country town and this is a special use that is allowed within this country town with a special use permit so it would seem curious to require conditions for residential use own property for a special use within a property is own business country town chair i don't believe that statement to be true thank you i believe that the short term rental up lights to interim zoning as use if the conditions are reasonably conceived to mitigate the impacts emanating from the proposed so the commission is feel free to impose conditions if it's going to m so would you like to make a recommendation for an amendment to the motion lorry so we can get that on record and everyone can understand exactly where we are you chair it can be a friendly amendment on this you want to vote on the original motion but for the amendment would be to approve with a special use permit with the conditions we and also to the verbiage out of nineteen point six five point zero three zero which provide oversight that is almost the same as any short term rent to that a manager or does it need would be available twenty four seven should there be any issues with the property and so on and so forth mention with regard to the short term rental home bill nine hundred sixty five with regard to the term manager it's a specific type of person and sold the manager in the short term her home rental billing is basically an immediate adult family member of the permit holder or and or an individual with an active state of hawaii real estate life and soul just so it's clear are you saying you want to manage or as described in the short term home run a bill or could it be just the manager of the whole tell all or or wal mart and or manager of the hotel thank you for that question they would be number two just a manager or designated manager of the property i understand i think what i'm looking for is a point in time when this planning commission can review the project but you bring up a great point that i meant to mention earlier is the construction phase of this hotel i don't think anybody in the community wants to see black people or boarded barriers in town for an extended length of tying so i would hope that the owner if he's ready to build and he's got all these permits that that construction phase would be done within  ok i mean that's fine with me  also head mentioned not according to the one thousand point six point zero three but a manager that would be available twenty four seven if there is any issues that he would be clearly label d appropriately how it stated in the eighteen point six five point zero three is a clear to everybody clear on where we are yes and i would just note that so it will be actually a total of eight instead of five so the current conditions are five so what that man did version will be eight conditions including the manager number seven which pertains to the accessibility of the manager and number eight to ensure that the manager is compliance manager to ensure compliance with the state department of health regulations and applicable laws and regulations so i just number six number seven number eight  all in favor of the motion as amended please raise your right hand the motion michael drew and lawrence to sue a in opposition i abstain i'm sorry i recused from voting so the motion to amend the motion carries by five t five and any opposed to the amended motion michael drew and lawrence lists i recuse myself from voting so the most and carries by five to two so let's move on to the special management area use permit recommendations please can i stare at your chair is that ok so the economy planning department recommends the approval of the applicants request for special management area use permit subject to the following conditions that number one that to the satisfaction of the department of planning construction of the proposed project shall be initiated by july thirty twenty first twenty  initiation of construction shall be determined as construction of on site and or off site improvements issuance of a foundation permit and initiation of construction of the foundation or issuance of a building permit and initiation of building construction or whichever comes first so evidence of the initiation of question shall be submitted to the department prior to the date listed immediately above we have a total of six hundred conditions and a total of one two three four five six six projects specific conditions if you want me to read them all that's the standard condition starting with one then you go page four five and six and everybody have the recommendations in front of them anybody not have it ok do we need civil to read it into the record or are you reading it in front of you i don't need to read it into the record it's kind of this project within the time frame will require unfinished portions of the project to obtain a new as it may permit why is required unfinished portions of the project to obtain a new a semi permit in the speak to her question but i'll because there's a time limit because sometimes and i am i think quick to me be can correct me if i'm wrong is sometimes you planning commission's approving a semi permanent and they don't start construction for a long time  things have might have changed in the meantime and an environment or whatever may have changed and the impacts may be greater later on then when the permit was initially approved so i think that's why   they would only have to come in for only portions that were not completed in that time frame gets a check to make sure that there's no impact on the change conditions let's just make a hypothetical that it took them twenty years to start construction in the twenty years things might have changed and things that you were abused when decimate permit was initially approved could have changed and you might have to think about additional and you know there's a little time limit and opportunity to a review of things have changed in the future under chapter twenty five they have a whole list of best of management practices so that was that would be what they would have to comply with and so this section actually came up a based on number five condition number five so condition number five they would have to do a preliminary compliance report so within that complaint compliance report all finals would be reported within this report based on the conditions and where they're at  or so we would have to do that based upon during the compliance report so they will have a preliminary and a final compliance report what about after a complaint to board enough that a construction here year or two down  upon the results of the investigation and so there will be an aside inspection and in so that will be doing the preliminary compliance you put what you at your adds or to that question would be that will come into the final compliance report preservation said that the historic historic properties are not affected on this property because of prior because of prior what had occurred prior to this project with the napa store or auto part building ok thank you well i appreciate their feedback but i don't usually agree with ship so i would like to have that maybe we can add that into either ok there is a motion to amend the motion for a number seven that an archaeological monitor be present when any ground altering activity beneath two feet is occurring i second that motion and that motion to amend the motion seconded by xavier require any further discussion all in favor of the motion raise your right hand one two three four five six it is unanimous and i recuse myself from voting on this item so the motion has a further discussion all in favor of the motion to the amended motion to approve razor write him four five six the motion unanimous in favor and i recuse myself so the motion carries thank you very much thank you so i will thank you mr miller and for being here congratulations on your approval ok we're going to take a short recess mr chair i have to let each issue with taking a recess ok does anyone else have i didn't give it think as long as we have coral whatever needs to go and use the restroom or whatever can do ok if everyone if anyone needs to into the agenda item is mr james garland requesting a county special used permit in order to change the existing use from commercial office to living quarters in the business country town business district at nine hundred would like to declare a potential conflict of interest on this is i present for four months a consulting services for mr luigi minera because of that i will be recusing myself from voting on this matter so what we're going to do here is we'll take the presentation from and the applicant then we'll take public testimony or and they will open the public hearing and we'll go from there so please proceed so  use permit to convert a seven hundred fifty square feet existing multiple commercial unit to accommodate living quarters on approximately one point five five seven acres of land at molly t district nine hundred seventy so the lot size is basically one point five five seven acres there's two existing buildings on that property will look at existing buildings and specifically focus on the project area so the living quarters is the state land use is actually bulls urban and a community plan is business commercial and so the project assessment report has been prepared in support of an application to do interior renovations of an approximately seven hundred fifty square foot portion of the existing building to accommodate living quarters for the caretaker of the property located in that they'll be annoyed stare alterations and no changes to the existing infrastructure so the reason why it's in front of you today under chapter nine point one one thousand point one five meaning that when i say permit it uses that means it is actually allowed under the under the b c country tom business district number twenty one and twenty two that that it's allowed to have multifamily dwellings duplexes bungalow courts except number twenty to come by combinations of dwelling units with other permit a principal uses in the same building except for a moral  saw the calming key is the reason why it's here is because it's except for more so this use this change where they want to change office space into live a living being is permitted everywhere except for moral  that you're looking at the building number tool which was on the far north side which is not being proposed anything so it'll stay in a seam so you have like the salvation army you have a virally store you have a furniture store you can really see that i think you have the a to service centers and so this is the actual propose living space and the existing floor plan so currently right now we do have the school located on the left side of the building the building closest to the highway so all you have all a school occupying  about sixty percent of the entire building so you have all of the highway area and then you've got the hallways so they have one two three spaces and they also utilizes the bathroom the hall where they have a core door and a porch and then as you venture more into the existing building then you have office spaces you actually have one two three four five office spaces that are not being utilize and so that specific those office spaces are actually they're requesting to convert those office spaces into a living room a kitchen and a one bedroom with a bathroom and shower and a walk in closet in order to get into the bathroom area so the rest of the school will stay the same it just some of the pictures so as you're coming up to collide highway you can see the building on your right and the first thing you notice is a school area this is coming the frontage as you turn into and as you turn into the building looking north east at the building and then looking north west at the building so this will be on the west portion of the existing building where the living quarters will be held and this is looking at the existing building one with the variety store the furniture so you're looking from their view looking to the proposed building and this is the exhibit existing building one way you have all of those stores and the service centers and in another area looking actually there regularly at the living quarters are the proposed living quarters more parking and you see on the left side you've got the existing building number one and this is the exiting sort of coming out side on the of the property  just more and more pictures and so the reason why they want to convert that office space into a living space is because they they felt they needed more than just a twenty four hour surveillance they needed actual caretakers to take care of the whole property itself and instead of having surveillance cameras they would rather put somebody physically there being able to live on the property and manage the property more more carefully and with safety and whatnot and that's it for the presentation i don't know if mr my narrow want to add but that's all in our presentation here you want to add anything garland would you want to add anything at this time or you want to wait ok ok ok so at this time we're going to open up the public hearing for this particular agenda item so if anyone would like to give public testimony and the community came really strong and said no and this group said yes and then everybody got pissed off and started organizing and then i missed that meeting and then the last meeting i came to was a long meeting and only thing i remember is the chairperson saying some statements that were actually not true against the project that they just okayed this is second time where nobody's listening to the community as long as you sign the papers and you dot your i's and t's the process allows you to have it without a community  it or not so what you're going to see this one probably going to be the same thing no matter what we see as a community you know we've got one person that's an expert in making sure all the paperwork is ok and on the board we you know the community is very what this community is a is a community that fights back even though we come in his room and we lose because we don't have the vote when you go out the door he's going to be facing all kinds of stuff outside the door to try to get his project through and this group i don't know if people keep coming or we're just going to just sit a hell with this process it just doesn't work for us there's some people on here that understand the community concerned with the about these quarters being changed from office space to living quarters so i'm not sure if they know about it or if they did know about ip sure someone would be here to give some kind of testimony so i guess i would have to agree you should be deferred until i mean i think we should have some representation from the people impacted me personally i'm more concerned with issues on the east side of then he got into some my friends became we got a and they want to that they all hold players they thought that maybe they can movie in they can get a manager in the players to secure the dow and whatever happened in the place they were building the repair sure that that was on the record no thank you it sounds like a good thing that they want to you know put surveillance on the property to watch over their interests i would back that but sometimes the thing that makes me feel in my now is that it's just a foot in the door and so it's kind of just a red warning light just going being being being it might go more than that and it will start from that so i'm not accusing or seeing anything i'm just saying that from listening from the back as to what this is being proposed i don't want to regret not seeing anything that we approve this and then it just escalate because of the safety issues here you guys don't understand the safety issues here the health issues here and what i want to know are you guys going to take responsibility when the stock comes up and people get sick i just had to bring this up because i just i'm just in shock she was going to school so i hope you guys take responsibility when the results come back from this contamination just thinking that if every up every business that we being commercial would ask for living quarters i mean i just feel that didn't make sense to me but i totally opposed to it i think it would just open other opportunities for future business says i'm not even quite sure what this is but all i understood was it was for a school and it seemed like they're moving from a school to something else and i wanted to make sure that the zoning was appropriate the other thing is i so sorry again i missed it so since i missed it i also heard that you folks had passed  hotel i'm a little bit disappointed i felt that in the past the hotels were not present in town it was away from town and unless unless the hotels are fully you know utilize that i can see that being and you know it's sort of like wonder why they're under the bridge but you know should something come up again i hope you got to reconsider thank thank you very much any questions on the commission ok next testif noise and i just want to express to you what's going on where i come from i come from or who i live right below the stairway to heaven and thirty years ago it's been closed and it's been closed all this time and you folks have a beautiful island here and when people first came to stairway to heaven no one it's closed to them it's like there's no boundaries you know they've pollute the area they don't take out the rubbish and then they also assault all the homeowners i'm one of them i've been assaulted my dogs have been killed but when you bring in something new to your community and you don't keep it within the culture the social impact and  the the like if you're only thinking about the land owner and you're not thinking about the people who live here things will change drastically and thirty years ago when i first bought my home it was brand new beautiful top of a mountain i didn't think the on june second they be having rescues going on you know well the fire department is in a man fell off the mountain they're also in stairway to heaven rescuing two people at the cost of taxpayers we have people fall off the mountain because they're doing you know photos of themselves we had suicides one june twenty sixth they fall off in the land right on that path that goes to the stairway to the heaven and one just this past saturday but the rescues fall on the taxpayers now the people who come here they're europeans they come from all over the world and they don't bring their money they want to come to places like this where they can go hiking in your mountains and fall off your mountain in sue you or gold to your beautiful ocean or fish up all your fish or take take take but they don't pay tax payers price the they're not homeowners so when you open up and you develop and then slowly it evolves into something new what once was a portion of it is preservation land in a portion of it is what you got for different colors on there but the people don't want to see social impact the environmental impact you know all of this you can't undo as you look forward i want you to think about when you make these subtle changes and making it residential the not what happened to happen to your beautiful island because they come from different cultures they don't have respect for land they don't have respect for the i know and they don't have common decency our state has this law it says any time you go someplace that says government property no trespassing that means nobody can go there they totally disregard that and then every time someone gets rescued  or the people as well is going to pay fifteen thousand dollars per head per person because the fire department does not charge because they are afraid people won't call in so you have all these beautiful mountains here all of these things all the changes you make you're going to have an influx of people that will be tired of all wahoo because there's too much traffic over there and they're going to come over here mama your place for the hawaiian people like us we come over here we spend our money we stay in your places you know and we clean we come here and we clean up so you know for local people believe me local people get tired of my get tired of oahu and they'll come over here and we'll spend our money and all islands as we all do the more look at it we enjoyed today is because my ancestors lived a law that was beyond paper they live law where your word was good enough the resources that were here was taking care of by abiding to that rule what was the end product what was end game it was for their future generation it was for the fear that they would never meet in this life we have not abided by that law that meaning has been changed by different people to mean different things so that their own desire can be fulfilled this is no different we're not the only people in this room my ancestors are here they cannot speak to you but i can't my own will you know that i will never meet our here when you and i leave this life what is it that we have left for them because michael pointed out when they left this life hundreds of years later there was water there were fish ponds there were many many many things and it is because of simple greed that all that has changed we like to pretend that we are educated let me give you a definition of education an educated person is a person who knows the colonizers way very well and can identify things that they need to identify so that they can help the this is nothing to do with discrimination this has to do with every single person who steps foot on this island has that end in mind not for here now not for when i get old and i go to a rest home but seven generations down the line you better make sure your decisions are correct you and i me think that the laws  written in the books are the only way of life when words on paper supersede relationships and the way of life for people th we need to make just the changes because your word to me is as good as a stack of contracts and my word to you should be that  i cannot tell you what the future will bring for any one of us but i can tell you unless we personally deep down inside each and every one of us determine for ourselves if the end mixed up the community  there's anyone on the commission have questions for civil or luigi or mrs gartman i have questions yes john yes no there were some concerns that i just i have a share the same concerns about school if they've been notified if they know about this i have concerns about being in to being a rental property which you stated for the record that this will never be a rental property so i just want to know if and did you receive any correspondence back from any of the neighbors is it in or civil not here in support or not supporting the department has not received any support are no support to the neighbors and those that were notified thank you so your answer to your second question which refers to i know you had a second question too  that i'm just concerned about this is supposed to be a living quarters to improve the area i was concerned number one about the school but i wanted to be false information that the school is getting kicked out i want to know that the school is not getting kicked out and  if we had any correspondence from the school in favor or not in favor of this project which we haven't and i'm worried about the creek bridge of everybody else's concern where this becomes a rental property or short m applicable regulations as such with the commission wanting to put any specific conditions on this perm just wish it was in the timeline because it does show that this property went through already one community to a min so now we're looking at us to show you i do not share and they've been nothing but helpful to them as well as other members of the community so if it's not going to be a short term rental they're not coming back in to do other things we can say right now with other i think this might well be concerns with this from now until we get to if anybody else doesn't have questions just the timeline i wanted in full disclosure for this commission to know that this property has already been i'm in through the community plan community plan is business commercial and what you're referring to is county zoning has always been i don't you probably want to more likely look what is the county's zoning because under county zoning it's business country town district and for business country town district it allows educational research trade and personal skills facilities and learning centers within the one thousand point one five country town business district point zero two zero as permitted use but i glad you brought that up because as your moral code planner it's very hard to have no criteria based upon except for moral cry so you'll see this throughout chapter nineteen the only plan i would have to differentiate that and utilize that would be your moral planner to understand what does the moral community in regards to the fine except for a moral other than that we are the applicant is subjected to the county special use permit and the one thousand point one five point zero one zero procedures policies and procedures which does not clearly define what except for more is until the more planning in the planning departments report to the more planning commission on july twenty sixth twenty seventeen docket number c p twenty seventeen slash zero zero zero to the planning department finds that the propose use meets the criteria for issuance use permit the proposed use will be similar in character to permitted and special uses and consistent with the unique character identity and needs of the country town and that are not that detrimental to the welfare of the surrounded area further the proposed use is not that your mental to the public interests convenience and its welfare so the mali planning department recommends approval based upon the following standard conditions under the  one through seven being one being that the county species permit shall be valid for five years until july thirty first twenty twenty two further the county special use permit conditions will be enforced pursuant to the provisions of chapter nineteen point five three zero and nineteen point five three zero point zero three zero of the molly county code as amended in one nine hundred eighty in consideration of the foregoing the planning department recommends that the climate planning commission the planning departments report and recommendations p paired for the july twenty sixth twenty seventeen meeting as a findings of fact conclusions of law and decisions on order and authorize that the rector planning to the said written decision in order on behalf of the planning commission thank you to except the recommendations of the planning commission of the plan a department and amend condition number one the permit may be extended by the notice it's a public hearing but there's a but then there's a public meeting was before the multi plane a commission so we need to determine which of those you want do you want to be a public hearing where there has to be the thirty day notice of neighbors than five hundred feet that type of public hearing or do you want it just to be placed on the agenda to be heard by the planning commission to be placed on you know why because it has the director you taking the exemption away from him and he's saying you may require the planning commission instead of the planning director and strike the last sentence and condition and were to replace planning to rector with them ok planning commission is that correct that would be correct so moved and we have a second for the amendment i second chair ok any discussion so all in favor of the motion to amend the motion please raise everyone for being here for the particular agenda item the next item on our agenda is i don't number g unfinished business mr williams spence planning to rector transmitting council resolution seventeen to seventy four referring to the  commission a proposed bill to amend the comprehensive zoning ordinance relating to short term rental homes of more crime the public hearing was conducted on june fourteenth two thousand and seventeen public testimony was received at the june two twenty eight two thousand and seventeen meeting the matter was deferred by the commission at the june fourteenth two thousand and seventeen and june twenty eighth two thousand and seventeen meetings the planning department received the council resolution on april twenty sixth two thousand and seventeen the one hundred twenty day deadline to submit the commission's recommendation to the council is august twenty fourth two thousand and seventeen i think we should agree with laurie at some point we move this forward it's my intention to move this forward as it was presented to us so i would just express my support for this and i would be voting once of the vote comes up i'll be voting in favor of the the resolution as it was presented to us so the planning committee on my county council is proceeding with their community plan up the so they meant on july seventh and the recently met on july twentieth and this is just  informational purposes so so you know where the community plan up the is at in regards to short term mental is a short term and took out so they had an action and i guess it's based upon march twenty four twenty sixteen testimonies during the march twenty fourth twenty six the planning commission where the dop did the more quite community planned up the so what had happened during the planning committee council meeting was that i guess there are some inserts and so the committee plan it has a new revisions in there chapters and one chapter on page sixty r s or s t r each is sol i wanted to provide the commission with the up the as far as short to rentals and how the council the planning committee is going up all having these inserts within the community plan update and as of today those revisions and in that community plan update and i will pass over the papers so just to be clear those those inserts to the community know so it is just a proposal right now and part of as the currently what they're looking at as revisions it has not been adopted but for your information as to where the community plan update is and where you're at right now with the resolution seven hundred seventy four and ct consul can clarify or distinguish the resolution versus what's in the community plan update and it has not been adopted yet but there should be consistency  so the matter before us today is the resolution that was brought forth by council member covello to establish a cap on the number of short term rentals on more guy with the numbers of fifteen on the east and ten in central and fifteen on the west is that correct yes and the revisions were made on may twenty sixth twenty seventeen that the planning committee had these revisions made within the community plan up the which is still going through the process ok so they are anticipating by the end of the september so what should happen if we make a recommendation that is inconsistent with what the planning committee is working on right now should they adopt this before the the doctor community plan before the law changes or if the law changes before the community plan is adopted in all of that how does that  in a very very long time so i'm unsure as to when they will adopt this if the numbers that passed will remain that way they can still be in discussion and the numbers can change during their discussion with regard to what you have in front of you you do have like you that august twenty fourth two thousand and seven to provide the council with your recommendations and and basically like simple set everything does have to be consistent but you can tell the council what you folks would recommend what you folks want in the short term home run a bell talk to nineteen point six five when the planning commission is considering the granting of a permit it shall also consider the applicable community plan and so you have to look at the community plan and look at it  as you know there is a limit and that something for you to consider and the grounds for denial of the community so at this point i would say you know the plan has not been adopted we don't know if it's going to have that insert in there or not or if the numbers are going to change like civil said it might be december or longer that they adopt it so i would suggest that you discuss and deliberate on the resolution in front recommendation on this resolution and this proposed bill they are not the end all of this bill they are the recommend recommending body to the council so the council will look at what their recommendation is and consider in their discussion when they're deliberating on the bill themselves you also have the opportunity to call into the pump for meetings in the planning committee meetings to also will testify in public with regard to how you feel about this bill so  whatever happens today is not the end of this the final vote is with the county council i don't know if i answered your question but to me and just to give you a timeline where the planning committees that s on july twentieth they review chapter six to nine august third there will be reviewing chapter nine through twelve including the maps and king is looking forward to bringing it back to the community for their public hearing hopefully in september and they want to kind of wrap it up so december that they came up the new community plan great thank you very much so looking at the clock here we have exactly thirty minutes before the meeting most conclude it's four o'clock it was concluded four thirty and we i would like to take public testimony on this i don't we've already had the public hearing on this item and please ever anyone if you like to come to a public testimony on this and you feel that you could add something if you testified before that's great we already have that we've considered it if you like to add something new and different that you haven't given us before that we'd like to hear that as well so we're going the families were here and we were i wasn't there but the one before that i know that they had given simple paperwork that we have been diligent in the meeting and working on we love  hungry if you're not lazy you'll never go hungry there's the ocean and you know i go how come these people live so long over a year and the old folks would say over you're on molokai you can die of old age or while you'll die of a heart attack that's how that and they use all say that but i'm coming here because monday our lawyer i am at an imports meant stage my husband and i we entered a lawsuit in one thousand nine hundred two it ended in two thousand and two we are in an enforcement stage right now and it includes the state of hawaii and it includes the county and our case has even gone to the ninth circuit and they have given their all pinions also our lawyers name is andrew springer he's out of  he used to work for n h l c he doesn't anymore but he has been retained and he is our attorney as a family and we won our case we were forced into a settlement and so now all the government agencies and us all have to deal with this in forstmann the good thing is you know when i put in there about fifty percent owner where eighty percent owner myself and my sister and ninety percent owner and one hundred percent owner on the rest of the lands we have plenty of descendants but the old folks funneled it down and for some reason maybe they wait for a child to be born that would come to and see it for what it is it's beautiful we're concerned about its changing but people by the mountains and the men no longer can go hunting when the shorelines and they don't know who they are i look and i can tell who's that boy that boy belongs to these people  that boy belongs to that person and now this is what we're talking about social impact social impact when i have your bring in strangers in here who don't have that same aloha for the i know who understand it like i said as time goes on they'll be less places for us to be whole lying to be who we are to see our sights and this is why when we made our recommendations we said us bali no you know why you can go to europe you can go to any other country they value there they value their history so much it's a bit in practice you will see the people the people are the host the people take care now that's not what's happening here america has not been good to us and if we continue to think like americans and forget about being who we are here on it is unique like all the people talked about you never go hungry and like i said it's so unique i have a few things i wanted to do again our main thing of contest i talk to my lawyer again because we were supposed to meet on monday he couldn't come in  got really sick got canceled which was great for me but then this meeting got called and when i asked him are we going to affect each other because i don't want to get into another lawsuit i don't want these guys back here to get into a lawsuit i know that's why i said it so much burdens don't put the burden on the people it's not fair think about us we will live in a tent before we give up our lands we pay our taxes before we give up our lands if you don't pay taxes they will come armed i call that extortion you may own it our lands come from the king they really do and it's totally clear i'm proud to say that and we live on the beach i'm proud to say t and so from the mountain to the sea and we won our case law nikita it was against a private individual and the state of hawaii and the supreme court ruled we are dominant because they ruled on the constitution the constitution is in favor of the cannot kamali in our rights i was forced to settle that settlement with gary gallaher i was forced to the table because we were winning and the state of hawaii individual state of hawaii and gary gallaher were the two individuals who were fighting to me gary was nothing the state was everything so when we get a ruling as a whole lion as a kind of kamali that says we are dominant and everybody else is subservient that's pretty awesome so of course we have a hard time in forcing something like that because nobody wants us hawaiians to be over the americans my god who could ever think such a thing to me this is a what this is not the united states it is not america it is what you this island is molokai when we came here i knew i was born to come here that's why i ended up with all the interest my great grandmother i was the last child she named and she was fighting for the lands and so i'm here and i believe that they live through us we have like i said i have a lot of grandchildren and old enough to have great grandchildren they're entitled to the beautiful ocean and the beautiful mountains and they're entitled to live a whole y in life so a native cannot kamali lifestyle it's so humble and i just thank the lord it's so humble and like i said if you're not lazy you never go hungry over here and main thing you pay taxes taxes death and trouble anywhere i wasn't sure but i think i needed to i think that's a marvin gaye said taxes death and trouble but anyway i wanted to give wasn't sure if i should pass this on again to just let you folks know that we do plan to continue to intervene on seventeen dash seventy four because it will change our island and it's not ok change a lot of people would say that is a beautiful place let's keep it that way i'm sorry i have a really bad problem with you mr chairman because you are in conflict you are a developer and you are directly in front of us blatantly working against us and i'm sorry i have to say that but i got to be true to my now and myself there were one of the young men that was before the meeting and this planning commission and the man walked of your commissioners walked off that night that man wasn't punching his fists that man was trying not to cry i didn't look in his eyes but my husband did that man was crying and you thought and everybody thought he was being but he was trying to do was hold back the social impact and all the tears because that man was kicked out of halachah ready his family lost their lands are ready in and so this is why i'm saying backside like to do the hunting up there so the men are going for rites of passage i say that is that the kind if they're seventeen lehmkuhl if they're over forty caught a cop because when you know i mean rites of passage you don't know where you're going but i never steal your sent their children here to learn to be good leaders i'm going to wrap it up and like i said i'm still signing this in for the contested case and again you guys know incorporation council are lawyers name is andrew springer and  the last time this resolution was brought before the commission testifiers made it clear that a cap is desired one that is supported by community members of the twenty two thousand fires eight oppose the bill seven support an amendment to lessen the cap six ask for a temporary ban on the s t fourteenth i too would prefer this to be done right not just expeditiously for the following reasons i cannot support this resolution one concerning to permit s t r a to operations could be considered spot zoning the special zoning of one parcel that has a detrimental effect on neighbors and the community at large to without an impact study for completed first went on and unable to fully understand the cumulative impact the proposed cap would have on the island three as thier ages are affecting native hawaiian traditional customary rates which the county  obligated to protect for the adoption of this bill before the county council has completed the community plan process is premature and five it would be more prudent to wait for the adoption of the community plan because it also proposes a traditional land use overlay which would help the county up hold its obligation to protect native hawaiians should a customer in rights while zoning regulates the land in whole districts spot zoning makes an exception for a parcel within a larger districts zoning allows the use beneficial to the property owner but detrimental to the neighbors to general general land use plan or to the community at large it's considered the antithesis of planning development since the proposed use is either inconsistent with the surrounding uses or does not conform to the comprehensive plan as your h are beneficial to the property owner but as you have heard from many residents they have undermined the preexisting rights and uses on the neighbors and to the community at large residents have cited instances where high concentrations of  changes the character of the neighborhood jeopardize their safety and infringe on their quality of life a cap cannot be accurately turman if we have no idea what the effect will be on working people the housing inventory residential communities and our hospitality industry county and state agencies are obligated to protect protect traditional customary rights to the extent feasible and to balance the interests of property owners and what i know this is codified under the state constitution article twelve dash that and h r as one dash one and and in case law approval of permit applications and favorable recommendation of this resolution is premature the council is currently reviewing the community plan and to support adoption this december twenty seventh team the traditional land use overlay was proposed to and resources including subsistence religious spiritual and ceremonial purposes in conclusion this commission should recommend an impact study before a cap is the term and support the efforts of stricter enforcement in the meantime council member help to include in this  good job fernando ok thank you did you graduate from richardson law school i did indeed i do have a degree in law i do have a degree in law  specializing in native hawaiian right laws and environmental well i'm glad somebody else besides me realize is that what the county is doing is illegal thank you h thank you very much any questions ok next community understanding where they're coming from is going to be critical so what is happening in the one community right now is all of the lies that we were taught when we were going to school that this government the educational system and last month at the national education conference in the mainland this information i'm going to give you know is going to be taught in all of the schools so what happened was first of all everybody agrees that there was an all the fuel and nobody knew what that meant there was an overthrow of whatever body agrees it was a document that the thing that was documented there was a lie was that there was what is going to be what is happening now is that there is going to be an international commission of inquiry that is going to be held in hawaii from the court of arbitration all of those truths are going to be presented to this court so what you need to understand is what is happening in the hawaiian community is that they don't believe that you guys have any power whatsoever that the state of and that the united states government place and in a few months whatever these hearings come up with which is actually the truth about whether or not this is america or whether this is the kingdom of hawaii and this is going to have a major impact but then you can begin to understand the frustrations that we have that we come here as a community and we say norm and you say yes and we come back and we say norm and then you say yes  again this is not going to work because you don't understand what is happening in the white community so i just wanted to let you know whether you believe me or not is not the point i'm just telling you what is going on in the community in the white community mix you know their needs these seizures on how to pass and you know we don't get a chance to know what's happening we don't get a chance and the first thing i know  reactionary type of thing something happens you react you know not thinking and so i had to after reading it i had to point out some inaccuracy  judge to use some reports that were incomplete and even a report that i was the authority and culturally and and it was incomplete and it was inaccurate seven thousand and seventy four and there's only one percent we're the one percenters you know got quijano lance and so we're very proud and we will fight to the end you know and so this this right here the so that's where these cap numbers came from and i don't know how they relate or how relevant the are to the districts that they are applied to and so i think there needs to be a little bit more done on this on this resolution before anything is even done we're against the resolution or who is against the resolution we want we don't want nor not only caps we want it stopped and we want the permits that were given out and so called grandfathered to be rescinded we want them rescinded we don't we do not believe that this is the lifestyle short term vacation rentals you know and that kind of stuff that's the make money people place ok so there's a limited amount of economics for a limited amount of people you know so i don't think that this is good for the community right now we need to work on it we need to work on it if you want to come up with a resolution against what's these realtors all real bringing in a certain class of people that don't care about taxis finds blah blah blah blah blah blah they got you for four lawyers all via the day care what they needed to make what they want done over a year that doesn't go along with what was what's here and what we believe in and so on you know i protests strongly  ok let me explain to the ones who don't who first are brought in by rich people to work their land and they're allowed to live on their land for free they're not allowed to they're not fed they're not paid and they're but they're brought over here we don't know who the hell these people ten miles wide thirty two miles long you know so let's think about that to thirty two miles long and ten miles wide at its widest and that's called all papa not much room when you see him when i and you go so there's not much in between to develop yeah and that's besides the water problem ok that's besides the water problem we can't have too many straws in awkward for ok but that's what's happening with this development this type of development and then to have somebody who is supposed to represent us come up with something like this she needs to work with us she hasn't gotten back with us i don't and i think this should be deferred until she gets back with us and we meet with her because the language and the numbers and the testimonies and the reports you have they're inaccurate evening thank you so we're at four thirty you just give us one moment please so we've got ten more minutes which is a hard stop if we have not completed our public testimony by then then we will bring this matter up on the future agenda and continue where we left off go we're getting to the end of our meeting we're in public testimony right now if we want out of time at our meeting then we will recess and reconvene as into a later day that were done at four thirty you know the planning department staff must leave at four thirty i feel that because d v r is in s t r applications are coming at a such a quick three that we need to start from occurring as quickly as possible and i don't know which will happen first so please d for any further applications until this matter is settled as stated in our east end policy statement we need a community do not want any types of business concurring in our neighborhoods we are oversaturated in all and why little neighborhoods on the east end there are nine permitted six pending and the reason why i say this i agreed to some of the  want is to have more applications being given out a permanent men man who took mandatory i'm against the development of tourist related accommodations a business subsequently subsequently change the social infrastructure of the area and so i know that we gave lots of testimony and there were lots of testimony for hundred seventy four and there was also a few testimonies that were opposed to it that wanted to defer it back to the plan and but with the planning we've been here for ten years waiting for a plan and we haven't are we going to wait another ten years to get a plan and then in the meantime everybody's going to open up their vacation rentals so what i'm saying is now is to stop it stop it let it in year to date i appreciate your time thank you  before i would prefer not to have any i live in a i may live in town where there may be illegal ones around i am a homeowner and i do not appreciate having people that i do not know i don't think they go through the same kind of rhythm or rude that they do with long term renters where if you are a predator that would be known to everyone that was is within the community so i get in with the short term renters they come in we don't know anything about them and i'm not quite sure but i'm assuming that it raises our our property taxes i know for sure it's taken a lot of homes that used to be rented to long term renters off the market so now there is a lot of people who are houseless and there are a lot of our young ones that cannot afford and they have qualified for section eight which for most parts they are forced to move up to mount a law and then when something does become available they can move down to town  so our people the reason why we do not have a lot of what the cattle categorizes homeless but they're basically house less is because with the goodness of of the hearts of those who are  ohana we take them in and we housed them so there's not a lot of them that would be normally on the streets and i would really encourage you guys to be our voice you guys are our voice and  when we come up and we take the time in our day like it was mentioned earlier you know we would appreciate the meetings to be in the evening because right now it's summer so i'm a substitute teacher i can come but during the months when it is not summer months we are working when you guys are in session so we cannot come and speak in person so i really would like for you guys to be our voice and make us proud of your decisions so that when we do say no to something that you guys take into consideration why we say in order to it more deeply instead of just voting against us thank you important the most important thing that for me it came out of that meeting was she actually came out with the resolution and she never actually came before that when i community to discuss anything about the resolution and any cap form when i because i mean i'm not sure why she never came but i guess she thought at the time it discuss anything home another thing or another important thing that came out of that meeting was there are fifteen proposed or proposed proposal for  person already owns a how you know all sells it a min the new owners want to come in and make it a short term rental you know or an owner that already you know all or is a short term vacation rental and then sells it to another woman that just wants to turn it into a house and then later on doesn't want to doesn't want to live there but then once  down but actually just the same or you know things like that it's just allowing outsiders to come buy a property in on it and then this turns it into late you know not if there's no other testimony ok we've got a quick here and like two or three minutes just like a lot more you know whole i guess i was really busy today simple i never have a chance for you share a lot of the things that i was thinking about and stuff so i guess the first thing would be the timing is really bad holding them in the middle of the day i know we've heard that over and over again but we still want to bring it up can you state your name or did you and i did it on their own my hearing loss by any way for agriculture and culture activities it's an essay me area and so you need a special permit so i know it's come up before like for instance neighborhood store needs to reapply every year to get  plan it does not mesh with the policies that been written and sold by continuing to approve applications you guys are going directly against the word of the law that you're supposed to follow so to me i don't see how we can continue to move forward by passing more and more we need a moratorium until we can decide what is the appropriate reason it means for different communities those the communities own does come martial have less proposed in the resolution than the air that zoned for agriculture and conservation so something's wrong with the numbers so what we want i mean so the numbers are a problem we want to rescind the existing ones we want to have a moratorium on all short term vacation rentals until we can get this issue resolved especially when you have conflict of interests on the board so i don't see how risk continue to operate so to me i think we're breaking some kind of law by just continue to operate when our presidents chairperson he's in conflict of interest or you guys just build houses and salamon rent them and stuff like that i mean because our community really concerned that this lifestyle has been there forever we're brought up that this is a little children were trying to teach our children and grandchildren these things and and the people there supports the supposed to be listening to the voice of the community is making they season is that are directly in conflict with the letter of the law with the with the intentions of the community so i don't see how we continue to operate is just a big old facade of lots of what's most to be a planning process because you guys aren't following the process and you're not listening to the community and then you make of volte when he's forty two but we don't have koran picos two people are in conflict and one vacant so to me four out of six is a quorum but i guess that's not all the last eight it anyway and really frustrated with the whole process the timing the continue to not listen to the voice of the community and to not follow the letter of the what you brought to us this is your interpretation do you want to carry so you made a decision for us no you made a decision in the sense that we have put fifty caps to who came up with that with fifty all fourteen or tertius or whatever number and say we're going to put a cap and if you break it to the community commercial cultural traditional customer yes this is the mohini from all over the world comes mister no objections we will defer this item and the rest of the agenda items until next meeting many objections ok this meeting is