good afternoon and welcome to the economic development energy our culture and recreation committee i'm don gives me the chair of the community before we begin may i ask anyone in the audience to please turn off their cell phones or put it in silence mood i'm going to introduce our members that we have today our committee secretary i'm going to go ahead and check in with our district offices currently members side believe is closed today so i'll check in with the office mr fernandez are you there council know of a concern i have with the flies that are in the park and the health danger that they propose in baldwin park which i use that a lot of flies if you put food especially meat or salad flies will swarm all for it and i believe the flies are there primarily because of dog and human feces that are in the jungle or the woods surrounding the park parking lot i'd like to see the restrooms open twenty four hours you have a restroom there it's opens it seven and closes at eight opens it eight and closes at seven and  you also have a portable potty right next to it which is always a law i think that if you could open that up to the public it would be better and you might consider following the lead of other countries like japan and not supply toilet tissue paper to the public where everybody just brings their own and i think that could cut down on some of the think rangers that work there they try their best but i'd like to see actually i believe the rangers should be cut back and just have the supervisors and have them work with  instead of having three or four rangers for this whole area of why would have turned maybe twenty to twenty five in turns that would work with the supervisor and the insurance could be their internal chip for for credit they would get for like from the city college work together with the college kids that want to get credit for their police science degree and they could help the supervisor as more like eyes out there to see the situation but the problem with the rangers today is it's very dangerous for one ranger to go into a situation without seven i should have been researching going down to see what the draft is yeah i'd like to make a comment if i could that if you can make the communication more transparent to the public instead of just having these wishing to testify ok thank you thank you ladies without objections members i'm going to close public testimony  thirteen point zero four eight of the maui county code relating to the parks and recreation facilities and amend sections six point zero four point zero nine zero of the maui county code really and animal control officers  committees in receipt of county communication fifteen dash two three seven from the budget director transmitting a proposed bill entitled a bill for ordinance repealing chapter thirteen point zero for maui county code and establishing a new chapter thirteen point zero four eight of the maui county code relating to parks and recreation facilities and amending section six point zero four point zero nine zero of the maui county code really into animal control officers the purpose of the proposed  proposed bill which represents a total reconstructing of maui county code provisions dealing with the regulation and management of the county parks and recreation facilities including the permitting process restrictions on park usage operating policies and the management of program fines and the bill is stamped as draft and it appears to be a structure for structure and working process so it hasn't been approved for the bill and the present and introduction of the bill from the parks department today we have the deputy director of the parks department ms savage who will present the  being proposed and then also be able to go into a little bit more detail into the definitions and article one so to start off with this process began about two and a half years ago a combination caring from the public some of the concerns with the permitting process and internally within the department also looking at some of the areas that there had been maybe just again just differences are opportunities to make improvements in different in different areas so over the past two and a half years there's been a significant amount of review both through focus groups community meetings individual meetings with the different permitted leagues in organizations  as well as just internally within the department and other county departments to try to look at what are different ways that we can try to have a system that is maybe a little bit clearer with updated language that's appropriate for the types of permits so again the focus for this really started with the permitting process and making improvements for that the more and more review that was done looking at the permits the more it kind of led to other sections within this chapter of the code prohibitions and other language that just hadn't been updated for many many years and so it eventually led into the concept that this would be a much cleaner and well put together transition if it was instead of trying to rewrite and retool a lot of words in a lot of different places that it would be cleaner to just repeal the entire chapter and rewrite the entire chapter and so that's what you'll see is the document before you there is a comparison document that has been provided which hopefully will provide us with enough clarity to really be able to work through piece by piece the first section that you have in front of you is only for article one the general provisions so this is not the entire the entire chapter thirteen point zero four a that the remaining portion of that will be transmitted to the commenee within the next before the end of next week so it will provide additional time to review the discussion points that will get to kind of as we move through the chapter to kind of tie this into how these changes impact the overall permitting process and i know these are items that through the last few budget cycles we've talked about the changes needed in the permitting process there's also been a new permitting software system that's been implemented within the department and we're now working on taking some of the online capabilities of that a little bit further working on some pilot projects that we can use for the pal's registration program that we're going to test out for this winter session that we can hopefully implement for the summer session as well as looking at online requests coming in through the system and then credit card processing as well so those are all different components that as we try to make improvements to the overall permitting process that's kind of one aspect of it the other is there's been a significant amount of staff training and really focus on shifting to a very customer service focus where the most significant impact for the community lies is is in the administrative rules and so i'm talking through kind of the process that we're going through now with the chair we've identified that as a department we'd like to come back to this committee with the administrative rules when we get to that portion as well normally administrative rules would just go through a public hearing process but we understand that this would be the first time that there's ever been administrative rules for the entire permitting process and that there's just a lot of information that we'd want to make sure is communicated really clearly with the public and the education that goes along with any changes or enhancements that may be made throughout that process and so our goal would be is that after the cold revisions we're able to make adjustments and finalization to the administrative rules process and then we would come back through this committee to also vet and discuss those prior to when those would be posted for the public hearing process i also just want to make note that in addition to these specific code revisions there's not a lot of changes made to the core component that's the last article in this chapter thirteen point zero four a the only religion was the definition so we took all the definitions up to the very beginning of the chapter instead of having definitions in multiple places and then there's just a few minor probably maybe six six words or so that were changed just to be consistent with the language in the rest of the document  department anticipates that again once we get through these code revisions then we would be talking specifically about core and again becoming back to this body with adjustments in changes to that process as well as craft fair rules there's an administrative rule processed for craft fairs and because there's a separate set of administrative rules that again would be a topic that we would handle as kind of a separate concept again after we get members you have me questions for the intro as mr couch thank you mr chair question i would have to begin with is different to supporting administrative rules any reason why we wouldn't put them in the ordinance because ordinance has a little bit more public scrutiny and you can find them online it's better and ministry to rule you have to look at the ordinance and then say what the rules are so are there things that could be put in the ordinance that instead of the ministry to rules department thank you chair there was there has been a lot of discussion about that with where do we draw the line between the policy that should be within the code verses the department's processes and procedures that would normally be housed in administrative rules and the flexibility was kind of the one piece that came up in expected with permits permits are very based on you know the culture and kind of what society dictates at the time and so we'd want to be able to really have that review process every year that if there was terminology that changed because of technology that we could go through the public hearing process  know and within thirty days you can make those kinds of changes so it's really just more of the idea that if we have a really strong policy direction kind of as the umbrella with the code and then by having the administrative rules that really go more to the  specific details then it would allow just for the system to work a little bit more collectively that if there was massive changes that needed to be made we'd have to go through both the administrative rules and the code revisions but it would give the department the flexibility to make sure that the permitting system is meeting the community needs and have a little bit more of a quicker turnaround time for those types of changes thank you mr turner thank you and thank you for same line would you say that there are some administrative rules especially in the area and this is what i was leading towards is areas of major violations that we could have that in the code where there is more stability and easier for us to go or county to go after people for major violations like major vandalism and that's what i'm kind of leading towards you know not every administrator fo don't want to get into that but when there are areas where we've had grave concerns you know what we you know if there's something we can add to the uninsured and make sure that that is in force and there is some real teacher that somebody does it it's not an administrative room it's part of the ordinance so i guess that's my question we discussed this in and we'll bring it up at a later date i'm not going to discuss it today but you know what i've been concerned about some of the major issues if chair but i think having those types of things definitely in in the cold are what's going to provide for that in force ability of our men as we move into article six in article seven there is a significant amount of work done with corporation counsel prosecutors office even checking things through n p t to really say where are some of the issues we're having now and maybe some issues that we can see coming up in the future and is the language that we can be putting in our tightening up in in the code currently so that we do have the ability to make sure that we're able to enforce those things and make some additions or at that point do you know that's where when we get to that section  just remind the members that this is the department's presentation so we have four discretion to do what we do is our job is for policymaking so we definitely make amendments and changes this is just an intro this is the you know i just received this comparison document yesterday so it's something that i think we need to just have the department presented to have an opportunity to defer this today review what they've presented welcome back at the next minute and work on it line by line if need be to make for some of the changes but again this is an intro of the comparison document that on the left hand side is the proposed language on the right hand side is the existing thirteen zero four a and in the red on the existing is what's being deleted from the existing there's a lot of language that's being deleted a lot of new language expression when it comes to the definitions but there's also just the movement of certain things so there may be language that in the existing code is located in one section and as we went through and wrote this we tried to really look at what's kind of the most logical process for a lot of this information to be provided in and so you'll find that things may not be new or different languages just that it's located in a different location and so as we go through that you'll find that there are sections that may be referenced in more than one place in the existing just so that we can show where those where those changes took place so moving into the second page and again this is just so overview of the article one which is the general provisions the first item that was added in thirteen zero four a point zero one zero is just the purpose having a purpose of the chapter and the purpose is in the interest of preserving and protecting county parks and recreational facilities and their recreational cultural environmental social educational historical and economic benefit to the community this chapter establishes policies and procedures regarding the use of parks and recreational facilit moving into the next section thirteen zero four a zero to zero a click ability in scope this was something that was is contained in the existing in the proposed deal just see minor changes adding of this title in point a and point c just changing from person to individual and that was a change you'll see consistently throughout the entire the entire proposed document  moving on to the next page you'll also see an inclusion of item d under a possibility in scope which just is the director of the director's authorized representative shell implement and administer the provisions of this chapter and as we move into the next section thirteen zero four zero three zero this is primarily where we're going to see the majority of the new information contained in this is the definition section and so what we did is we took their word definitions that were listed separately in the chorus section we've added all of those into the front so that all the definitions are contained at the beginning of the chapter and of the title thirteen document and so  we kind of move through these again a lot of these words are being added in because these were areas where there was a lot of confusion or misunderstanding between the public and the department when it came to the process and a lot of times again these are going to be words that on a on a permit ing level we're using this language every day and we're using it to communicate to the public how to maneuver through the process and so we wanted to make sure that there was really clear definitions for these so that we all understood same definition and we can all reference to the same definition as we move through that process so at the seed things again eighty a just adding a definition of just go through an overview so that they kind of know what they're looking at when they when they go back to their offices and review it and i think  can kind of turn to the next page and i'll just kind of highlight some of the ones that are maybe more like a little bit more significant business again was also one that came from quora and there  existing definition that was slightly adjusted business location camp or camping cigars cigarette you'll see a little bit later on that there was also to devise that was added in commercial activity commercial ocean recreation activity definitions community center consuming of intoxicating liquor  county definition county property department department equipment department sponsored this would be one kind of terminology that we'd like to like to change previously in the code it's are currently in the code it's referred to as county co sponsored activity and so just changing that terminology to department sponsored and the reason for this is there's a lot of different sponsorships that can be provided for different activities from each of the separate departments as well as just from more of an overall administrative level and so just making sure that there's clarification sometimes the public gets confused with who's sponsoring an event and what does that mean and going through the department permitting process sponsorship means something different than if a different department is necessarily sponsoring or running a program and so this would just by the office of economic development department of housing and human concerns has some department sponsored events office of the mayor has sponsored events and so yeah those are just be a few of the most often examples that we deal with and there their definition of sponsorship is across the board there's no real definition of sponsorship and so what this language is is defining what the parks department sponsorship means correct because the department sponsorship is connected to a permit that's being issued which means that the events taking place on parks property ok so that's the trigger basically it has to be on the parks property to be sponsored by the parks department that's correct ok mr obama understand the director's response and i appreciat that just for me chairman i will see when it comes to sponsorships i think it should be within the parameters set by the council i don't i don't need ten departments coming up with ten different community kind of strangling strangling the community to be able to put forth so i think the fact that we've always had county co sponsored activity or whatever t proceed so they're moving into designated by arcs are recreational facilities definition for director and dog dog park both have existed previously in just some minor changes for consistency the addition of electronic smoking device definition it's like changes to the definition of equipment it's just some language that we are requesting to remove in that definition exclusive use defining what that is and the reason the exclusive use definition comes into play is that oftentimes when permits are given then it's giving a group or an organization exclusive use of society so just making sure that dot is defined with when there is exclusive use and when it's not an exclusive use so you'll see non exclusive use also defined later on or you talk about ever ties in with theory or maybe we should reference chapter sixteen point two six i think for the different that's unsigned because otherwise we could get messed up there but on this page talking about removing equal quitman except any device convention requires an operating license or permit from the state of hawaii division of boating recreation or from the united states coast guard why are you removing that more pull out some of the specific comments about each of these if we need to but i think it was just as we went through the definitions and looked at it we didn't see the necessity for having this called out specifically you know th department equipment our equipment can mean any of the tangible tangible business property and didn't see the reason to identify any any exceptions ok more general sports  proceed thank you chair so again moving through we have an additional definition for exclusive use as we get to the fees section this is one that we expanded a little bent on before or in the existing code there's a definition for fees but we wanted to separate some of the different types of fees that exist within the permitting system and so you'll see underneath fee an application fee a cancellation fee a permit fee and a registration fee and so just as a general overview you know the difference between the four of application would application fee would be a nonrefundable fee charged to process a permit application  and that would be something that's paid at the very very beginning when an application is received at this point in time there are no application fees in the department of parks and recreation but there has been extensive discussion about if there is a need for this for some of the the larger or the more significant permits where there is quite a bit of review and analysis that goes into the paperwork that comes in from the very beginning and so as we were making the definitions it was thought appropriate to go ahead and add this in at that point in time the cancellation fee again is a forfeiture of the deposits for failure to provide timely notice of cancellation or for failure to use any issued permit and as we get a little bit later into article three we'll be able to see a time table that identifies what that cancellation schedule would look like for each of the different permanent permit types the permit fee non refundable fee required prior to issuance of any permit authorizing the use of parks and recreational facilities and all permit fees must be paid by the applicant and again as we get into article thirteen there's a table that again references the timeframes for when fees would need to be paid in conjunction with each of the different permit types and then the final fee type would be a registration fee and this anomaly fundable fee required to participate in program services or instructional classes operated by the department so this is more of a fee that's based on someone signing up for a specific program or activity that they're paying for in an individual or group basis so again we just looked at this is this is a good you know the word he's oftentimes can mean a lot of different things in different situations so i just wanted to create that clarification on the different types of fees and so then they can be referenced more specifically on when they're appropriate to be incorporated and when they're not having a definition for fund raising activity definition fri gymnasium intoxicating liquor law enforcement officer having definitions for league and then again league is another one that was thought to be better clarified if it broke up into the different types of leagues because this is a huge part of our permitting process whether it's the youth leagues the senior leagues the a t l leagues or other community leagues that are ran so to kind of give an overview of each of these the general definition of a league could be an organized group of teen compete against each other over a period of thirty days or vulgar and the different types of league the first is community league leagues that are organized by an individual or organization which may assess dues registration or participation fees confirmed by the director to be used solely to offset operating expenses such as insurance officiating and permit fees community leagues shall obtain a general use permit issued by the department next we have the department league which would be a league organized and operated by the department which does not assess registration or participation fees so at this point in time the two examples of department leagues would be the men who get molly which is league for both boys and girls that runs from six to eight grade and there's no registration fees for that and the other example is the mcauley league which is really softball league that  those right recreational way it's not a highly competitive league rate and you know what i'm looking at is this community could you explain i'm sorry chair please before we go any further fair so the community league would be there's a lot of leagues that run that are maybe organized by an individual or an organization and they're assessed currently what are considered like type three fees so they're running it because there was a lot of leagues that the department used to be able to run that because maybe there's not enough operations money or the department can't afford to fully subsidizes many of the leagues is they've ran there's been individuals in the community they've gotten together to say we can run this  was trying to get my finger on that one ok good i got it i got it thank you so much as we continue into the partnership leak which would again leagues organized by youth senior or americans with disabilities a organizations which just as dues registration or participation fees confirmed by the director to be used solely to offset operating expenses such as equipment insurance officiating and permit fees partnership leagues shall obtain a general use permit issued by the department and again these are primarily are a social little league bronco league those types of non profit primarily nonprofit organizations that run a lot of the youth youth senior and eighty eight leagues throughout the county and then the final one would be the recreation league which would be a league that still organized by the department but it would assess registration or participation fees that would be used solely to offset operating expenses such as equipment officiating and expenses through the recreational program fund these fees for each of these recreational leagues were approved in this  last fiscal years budget and so what it was is there's a fee for the type of activity per game and this would allow for the department to be able to go back to offering more leagues but we would be able to be recovering the minimal costs that would go into just providing scorekeepers on pirating and the equipment that's needed specifically for that activity and so this would be that type of league it would still be organized by the department but there'd be registration fees that would be assessed per team or per individual  harmon right now there are no examples of this specifically so this would be this came up because we did have a lot of individuals and concerns from different leagues that maybe we used to offer a certain program where there's a need for us certainly to exist but perhaps we don't have enough money in our operating budget to cover all the costs of operating it and so what we did is we went through and looked at what are the costs if we were to have officials you know that we needed to have vendors for scorekeepers or the specific equipment and we broke it down on a cost per game so that we would have the ability to say as an example we're going to run a adult softball league for two months out of out of the year we're going to run in all of the districts and there's going to be twelve games per team we'll be able to take that that we calculated times twelve and then that would give us what the per team registration fee would be and then we would still be covering the insurance through because it would be a county program through us and oftentimes for leagues that can be sometimes the difficulty is who's who's providing the insurance and as parks and recreation i mean that's that's what we want to be able to provide more people opportunities to recreate in one way or the other so we just saw this is a new vehicle that we could explore where we're not asking for more burden on the general fund to cover the cost but we can run programs more of an  think you chair so as you move through again after that we have a definition for league schedule new definition for non exclusive use definition for non profit definition for park or parks definition for patron and again this is a definition that was moved from out of for the core definitions were into the main definitions definition for permit and again this is a combination of the definition that existed in court as well as the overall department definition for permit and combining it in just to have one definition of permit for the entire department  definition for camping permanent commercial ocean recreational activity corps a permanent community class permit and as we move into these different definitions of permit you'll see what's being deleted is the types with the numbers so currently the department permitting system is a type one a type two type two c c type two are type three type four and type five  and that has been a major point of confusion again both with the public and with the department and so what we've what we're proposing is to have actual names for those different permits and so we would instead of the type to see c have a community class permit it's not going to change the essence of the community class just calling it a community permit instead of a type two c c permit the type  three permit is what we would propose to be called the general use permit and again this general use permit is almost kind of like the catch all there's a lot that falls into this category whether it's a lot of the leagues any of the completely free activities and events that don't assess any types of donations registration or participation fees as well as the majority of the community center rentals all fall into what would what we're proposing would be the general use permit after that it's followed by the government permit which would replace what is the existing type one perm for special events permanent and the special events permit would in compass what is currently the type for and the type five permit the difference between the two types for permanent is pulled by a nonprofit a type five permanent is an individual organization that's not a nonprofit entity and i think as we as we move further through this there is also the budget amendment that was transferred in conjunction with this because these language vocabulary changes would also need to be reflected on the current rates and structure and so as you look at that you're able to see how there's not a change in any of the dollar fee amounts the people that are running activities now under the existing system would still be charged the same fees structure through the proposed system it's just a change in the vocabulary in the terminology as to the different types of permits that are being issued as we continue through we have the definition of permit t or permit  holder definition for personal mobility device recreational facility definition for rules smoker smoking definition for tobacco products definition for tournaments vendor a visiting swim team and youth center and so as looking through the next sections you'll see that really the only two definitions that are completely being deleted language and terminology wise type two and type two are definitions exists in the existing code those would be combined and covered in the definition for department sponsored so without them being explicitly stated they're just inclusive of that definition and again on the the budget amendment you're able to see how those fit into that rates in fee schedule and then the definition from co rules was another definition that would just be deleted so that concludes as far as the definitions changes with the definitions again a lot of the additional definitions are based on terminology that's used very regularly in the permitting process just wanting to have that clarity so that everybody's functioning off of the same definitions or all playing by the same rules when it comes to applying permit rules and definitions you move down into again through the existing we identified thirteen or four zero three zero which is the county co sponsored activity so this section a is something that is being proposed to be deleted and not be included in the in the proposed this section a though does fall into what the definition of department sponsored would be  and as you move into section b thirteen zero four zero three zero this is something that will is being moved into the article three the proposed article three and so again as we get to article three this language again will be shown in that comparison document so we're just looking at moving it into a section that pertains specifically to the permits and will be moving into that one very shortly so again just to show that based on how the existing code is written this is where it would come up after the definitions it's not that we're deleting all of this language it's just that it's moving to a different section so as we move into the proposed thirteen zero for a zero four zero the operating policy we'd be looking at just adding a general policy statement  and this combines some of in the existing thirteen zero four article three what's considered the operating policy so again it's shifting what's currently in the existing article three operating policy moving that up into the article one general provisions and and naming out operating policy there so you'll see the similarities between the hours of the operating policy and a general policy so it's still identifies unless otherwise permitted by the director all parks and recreational facilities shall be open to the public on an exclusive first come first serve basis during designated hours established by the director the opening and closing hours for each park and recreational facility shall be posted there in any exclusive use or choir's a permit and then under that general policy we have what would be two exceptions so the first exception would be a closed area and again this is being pulled from the operating policy in the existing code  thirteen zero four zero six zero under closed areas and that would identify closed areas any park or recreational facility or section there of may be close to the public by the director at any time when the director find such to be reasonably unnecessary for the maintenance of property or for the protection health safety or welfare of the public closed areas shall be reported pursuant to subsection thirteen zero four a zero five zero b and we'll get into that reporting section in just a moment the other exception to that would be restricted facilities and so these would be community centers or facilities which was choir special  maintenance and so this is based on the facilities that again it's a first first come first come first serve basis but it's based on a permit that has to be issued such as a community center permit that has to be issued where there is keys issued for the facility and so that's where that would fit into that restricted facilities category next under that we have the see the director's authority  section which is the director's authority the director shall determine whether events or activities are compatible with the purpose for which any park or recreational facility was designed and so all of those three would fit into again what's the proposed operating policy for the for the process under the next section you'll see thirteen zero for a zero five zero which is the reporting section and so in this we have a which is the annual reporting and this is something that currently exists with the permitting process that we have right now so again it's just kind of reconfiguring and actually calling out a section where we identify what is the reporting that should be taking place so annual reporting on or before july fifteenth of each year the director shall transmit to the council a list of all department sponsored activities whether revenue generating or non revenue generating an any activities extending beyond five consecutive days which have taken place between july first and june thirtieth of the previous fiscal year these reports jalan clued the purpose of each event or activity the reason for the department sponsorship the organization or entity that conducted the activity the period of time over which the activity took place the location of the activity and a breakdown of events distinguishing those free to the public or requiring admission charges and so again you'll see that a lot of this isn't new or additional language it's language that's currently in the existing and it's listed under currently what's the thirteen zero four zero three zero county co sponsored activity section the next component some of which is being proposed is section b which would be special reporting and this would identify that important finding that an area should be closed for maintenance of property or for the protection of health safety or welfare of the public pursuant to section thirteen zero four zero four zero the directors shall state in writing the reason for the closing of the park or recreational facility and showed transmit such resistance to the council within ten days from the date of closing upon request of the council the director shall file by weekly status reports with the council outlining the current status of the problem within the park or recreational facility and any actions taken to minimize those problems effectiveness of actions taken and any proposed future actions contemplated to be taken until such time as the park or recreational facility is real and what this special reporting section again there's pieces of this that exist in the existing code but we wanted there to make sure that there's just that follow up and recently we've had a series whether it's because of repair and maintenance purposes where there have been facilities that are closed and we know that everyone receives those phone calls and so that's what again just be a mechanism to ensure that the administration the department and the council all have that information to be able to communicate to the public what's going on with facilities throughout the county area the final section in the general provisions article one is the thirteen zero four a zero six zero arrow and this would be a newly proposed program fund and this would run in conjunction with the additional rates and fees that were added in the fiscal year sixteen rates and fees again as we talked about the recreational leagues this would be the specific fees that are collected so that they can go into this fund and the department can then use those monies to directly pay for the costs of running that program as opposed to the money's going into the general fund and then being reallocated back into the department so this would be there is an established uncreated fund to be known as the recreational program fund fees collected pursuant to this section as set forth in the annual budget ordinance shall be deposited in the recreational program fund shall be deemed appropriated upon receipt and may be expended for purposes relating to the operation of recreational leagues by the department so again this would allow for if we were running a softball league and we collected a registration fee from  all the different participating teams but once that money goes in we can use those monies to directly write the checks for the officials or the scorekeepers or if there's specific equipment that needs to be provided in order for that so the recreational program fund and the recreational leagues are are a concept that this point don't exist right now if we run a program in house the department pays for all of the vendors to do the the score keeping or we do it with staff as much as we possibly can if there's any equipment needs all of that comes out of our operating budget and what we're identifying is that there's leagues that the department used to run that we cannot afford to run and so this is a concept being proposed that would allow for us to offer more recreational programs at very affordable registration fees to the community users but then it's not the the general fund subsidy of our operating budget that's bearing the complete burden of of the cost of being able to run the program ok thank you hum i'm sorry mr hall com chairman very quickly some of my ears that i would like us in the future to have a more discussion  will sell only what we allow in our facilities because i expect to get revenues from companies to have the privilege of serving only their product within our property so it would be  p and we would be open possible would like us to at least if we're going to set up a colony code in this chapter that maybe this might be the right vehicle to set up korean rights and concessions because it is something that would make sense they review it and see if it's a potential revenue source to lessen the impact on general fund so again i would say we need to look at vendor or vendor uganda definition think and i appreciate i think for me the one thing i would add as number seven is the financial report for that event yeah that's a good one yeah right behind and to if someone is making tremendous amount of money off the facility i'd like to know and see if that was fair and what we provided and what they got in return so i would have that would be required hundred their term net right they would we would require them to that what is being collected right now for the different fees for the  league's chair as far as the the outside leagues would we would have to go and we could put together some of that information to be able to show what the external leagues that are receiving facility permits from us what they're charging versus  what we would be able to charge but at this point again because this fund doesn't exist even though the the the fun doesn't exist so we have implemented any programs that would specifically be this recreational league i do know that there's interest up country there used to be adult softball league that run up there and that's a that's a program that we've received a lot of feedback that we would like to start back up again in east but again it's just one of those we're waiting to see if we would be able to use those registration fee revenues to be able to support that because we know we don't have the money in the operations budget to be able to cover all those costs but you know the department's open to if it's testing it out and identifying maybe some projected costs for the first you know maybe six months worth of leagues that we'd like to try out and then working that through a budget appropriation and then if it is something that works out in those numbers add up then looking at at this direction i think that would be different to p p steps and just basically test it out first and i think mr o so primarily with the leagues it's things like yeah bases if there's the talk department actually used to run a lot of different leagues volleyball leagues basketball leagues boxing all series of different things and basically they provided all the equipment that was necessary to be able to run those leagues so with boxing we had a boxing ring with the basketball we provide the referees we provide the all of the management that went to put together the people who are to run the league and to keep track of  different teams as to who was on it all the specifics that you need to run a league that's the kind of support to the county had the county actually organize everything and put it all together can come up with something because like i mentioned earlier our county sponsored can be quite involved at more than one department and depending what the event or the activity is so far in a rural area it may not necessarily be in a ballpark but it may be held where it makes sense and it's still county saw one size does not fit all my i think i've mentioned that to you before so i appreciate us being able to dissect this before we try and make something conclusive also i think the at least i can see because of my own experience that i appreciate the focus on customer service that's a matter i think with a lot of our employees but what's going to come from your department as we're applying all these changes i hope you feel it would have something in mind to have a conversation have a dialogue with the community like mayors there are programs that been there forever it's also all it goes into the same organization and these are all volunteers who put in and put on the different events or or what have you and all these changes that come about just have massive confusion  deputy director says that and sometimes your own staff at the permitting process don't fully understand why all these changes so then there's massive confusion saw i think it's important before we you know cement everything that the community have an input saw because malls everything that we do our community so the conversation to me or at least a dialogue or presentation some sort of format to include community i could appreciate that because you did mention that you centers any county facility has grown exponentially through the years and you can almost you can at almost use any of our community centers on any given night because somebody is there eating and so we have to make some changes and i think this is important and change has growing pains to so i think i agreed mrs greville of that we got to make sure that when we do this we do it in a systematic manner and we work at it but that's had no notes later and i think that's something that will address as we get closer to the bottom line and this is we need to digest and i want to those i mean even though i did go over this there's an even more extensive ideas i think the other thing i'd like to make sure that we don't forget is the fees we need to  propre fees appropriately for the various venues i think that something very important if it's a baby party for a family that's one fee and i think we've always try to do that if it's a political fundraiser that's another if it's a commercial  entity that's another and making sure we have the rate feed structure in there i think that's really going to be pivotal and i think that will cover a little bit later and finally was the chair i want to thank you and the department for this extensive review i think long overdue something it needs to to move forward and i will support in every way possible and work with us and that the department because our parks are a gem of these islands where you're like mr our car our car and myself in the macaulay side of the world or your daughter who's on the beautiful side of the world and doing very well in golf they are golf courses are softball fields are volleyball but i don't care what i have to be in good condition so that our children they were products of these fields these these gyms these facilities they actually used them and so now we want to make sure that others have that same opportunity and that's why i know that the i want to make sure that  we can push this along because you know you don't want people want to give you something getting turned off because you make it so hard for them to give you something and i think mary you agree with me on that one so anyone should too much or any thank you much to cheer  activities are compatible with the purpose for which any park or recreational facility was designed i have some concerns with that one in that it leaves it only on the director because i i seem to recall when i was on working on the ninth floor there were some times when a group of us thought this this event would be a good event and the director said no i don't like it so therefore you're not going to have it and there had to be some major discussions and i think there was an overturning so i am a little concerned about that i don't know how we can rephrase it i understand what the intent is but there has to be forward i think this is not the time to get into ad i think we are trying to just keep general i mean that's my take on this and that's getting very specific and i've been there i understand what you're saying just like with my son said there is things we need to work on but i think it falls right back here in future me thank you very much for putting me on the record because then it would have been had to restart from the next meeting but will put those issues that you've presented in a letter for follow up for the department and then so when they come back and present article one again they will have something at least formulated to address some of those issues and i guess start working on article one after that i would expect that they department would on that same day present article to review and then we will com back again at the next meeting and go into more detail article two and that's how we'll get through the entire week half of the chapter and review discuss in detail the next meeting review the next article discussed in detail in the next so that we can break it up so it's not one long meeting tobacco products so i'm not sure how medical marijuana works i don't know if those kind of people are allowed to smoke in public places or has that was a good point so because really focusing on tobacco and e type you know smoke yeah i just wasn't sure if that needed to be as it's becoming more prevalent in other you know states and wasn't sure how much it's going to take on in our county so that's a good head of the the ball but i do see people they try and beat the system by not being on the high tide in the county spots and they're smoking cigarettes and marijuana just in the shoreline so they're in literally in the water drinking and smoking  to animal control officers so is that what you're supposed to be discussing here today to we haven't gotten to that ok so we're just going to we will get to it it's it's quite a long chapter so it will piecemeal this so that we don't get turned down on it but it's a long time coming and i have to commend the department for working on it i know that we've been they've been working on it for the last couple years now the last two and a half years so i think it's a good thing to at least take a look at it and review then the chapter and it is somewhat our kids so you know we're going to try to get through this new process this new revisions the best that we can ok break before we start the next item ok here are committee show now to reconvene members and turning your attention to the next item on the agenda to the committees in receipt of the following county communication eleven dash three or four from the director of parks and recreation tr ting to propose resolutions intitled authorizing the continued operation of a parking lot concession by the friends of incorporated pursuant to the first amendment to lease dated may first two thousand and three and authorizing the continued operation of a parking lot concession by their friends and incorporated pursuant to the first amendment two license dated may first two thousand and three the purpose of the proposed resolution is to allow the friends of excuse me to continue the operation of the parking lot concessions on the properties least identified for real property tax purposes as tax mat key to four dash six dash zero zero seven seven friends zero zero one and licensed under identified real property tax the map key print t por and zero three six and correspondence dated oct sixth two thousand and fifteen from the department of corp councillor relating to the operation of the parking lot concessions members last month we we started our review of the friends scuse me operation of the parking lot concessions located on operate properties leased from the county by the nonprofit and the parking concessions is that is an incidental use of the lease of the premises to restore and preserve the ponds and we will be examining the restoration a later as the connection with a separate item that was recently referred to this community as forty two but today as we continue our review specifically for the concession of the parking lot i would like to remind the rim members that the amendments to the lease state that if the if not approved by the maui county council such incidents use shall not be permitted to reference that specific law on the record again  as item number ten of the lease and license the use of the premise is that the licensee shall use or allow the premises here by license to be used solely to restore and preserve and as an incidental use they're there to for the first three years of the licensed term licensee shall be temporarily permitted to operate a parking concession on the premises  proceeds of which be used by licensee for restoration and preservation purposes such into the incidental use to the op to operate the parking concession shall be reviewed and in its discretion approved by the county council by separate resolution at the end of the first three years and then every five years there after during the term of the license if not approved by the county council such incidental use shall not be permitted so we are we're back on that same discussion previously we had that the last meeting a number of questions came up which i posed by three letters to the department of corp council the executive director of friends blossom for tara and the president of the board of directors of the friends faulkner the letters members are in  binder to begin with i would like to go through our lease introduce on the floor blossom for tierra the executive director of the friends yesterday we receive some responses from the letter that i addressed to their friends unfortunately their responses came late we had sent out the letters of the requests for certain documents and financial data month and a half ago and we've just received some of them yesterday and i guess sprinkles of those came in today via e mail so i apologize wasn't able to review all of the information that came before or came to me and that quick of time but what we did supply was some of the documents that was provided for us yesterday tira on the responses to my letter so members that would be in the in your binder were dated september twenty second the request that the chair made i know that are dated september twenty second first of all i'd like to apologize for the delay in getting our documents to you in a timely manner unfortunately when we got that letter we were already out of the office where w out for the whole week did not get into back into the office until the twenty eighth and right after that i got sick so we are i think we finally got all the documents he requested to the council services  revenue will come to print on a monthly basis paid in quarterly payments that's one and we also include the item my spreadsheet indicating our revenue collected from the parking lot and so based on some of the questions that you raised mr chair one regarding the income expenses allocated between friends and will include first i think i want to get something made clear here of the costs for the maintenance of the site and the parking lot we do have some cost that we incur in the maintenance of the parking lot such as the utility bills water bills and so i mean  segregated so we have one bank account set up under clause we have a bank account set up for friends i'm a caller and we have two different set of signatory parties that are started for both of the accounts so  and these functions are provided by myself and the site maintenance person on an probable that i have right now and tell i have a full grasp of all the documents that were submitted but i had noticed just on a review of the contract the profit organization receives that correct yes but cannot not the fall revenue no question of it ok why is that wh that took place established a minimum payment system where it's actually seventy percent i would have the revenue derived from the parking lot with a minimum base of fifteen thousand four hundred dollars a month so our minim so they then determine how much to give as a donation to france that is correct ok after a board meeting i believe it's quarterly yeah so when i go back in the what you submitted yesterday but tax the income tax documents the income tax returns of the profit side going back from two thousand and nine to two thousand fourteen it appears as on the donations side it goes from six thousand from one year donated to the friends to like nine thousand and then two thousand and fourteen eighteen thousand and there's a lot of different expenses there's heat there's a huge amount of expenses that's indicated on contribution benefits and there's a lot of different other expenses for equipment supplies if this is a shell company that was supposed to be a pass through why is it have so many different expenses it should be the parent company which is friends that has more expenses but it seems like all of it's getting expanded on the profit side and then there's little amount of revenues that were generated from i mean the revenues that were generated from the parking lot which is about one hundred forty four thousand estimated per year is being doing it all down to six  thousand eight hundred thousand that's actually given to the friends while the lease agreement says that all revenues you know are granted union business expenses but from one hundred and thirty six dollars in one year to donating that money to six thousand to the friends i can explain that just by you know i don't i don't have any other documents that i've actually reviewed maybe i words his charitable contribution yeah so you're saying that the the the profit company which is supposed to be the subsidiary of france how you guys are set up is that the profit company makes contract with diamond and then diamond pays a rant of forty forty six dollars in the profit company collects it and then according to the documents the board of the profit company then makes a determination of how much money to don't need to france the lease says that with the revenues in the lease and license of the current t v tween you in france between the county in france is that the revenues are supposed to go for restoration purposes only so i don't know why the other i mean it's just a substantial amount of business expenses being exhausted by the the profit side and then very little going over to the friends so i  need in some further assistance in accounting because i don't have a real grasp of the documents before me but that's all what i can deduct in such a short period of time i would  can't get all of these to have the documents piecemealed to me and have my staff try to put it together is very difficult i think we need some professional assistance but i'm open to some and i realize it's the last meeting but i think you know if september twenty second was your requests and and perhaps then maybe that can put forward that we give the friends of the time frame to be able to outsource you know usually you have to have some financial statement profession me if that lets you want or some kind of management audit so i'm trying to understand what is the problem with a nonprofit having a subsidiary for profit there's there's nothing really wrong with it it's just how the according to what they're green it was the friends with the county was that the revenues of the parking lot or were to be used specifically for the purpose of restoration or trying to track the money or did it go i mean work how is it being spent and the where and in this is cursory i could be wrong you know i didn't really have that much time to review but just based on off of the tax returns off the profit side it looks as though there's a lot of business expenses from the profit side and the board according to the audit of two thousand and thirteen the board of the pro determines how much to give to the front to the friend side and my understanding from the two thousand and ten audit it was supposed to be a shell  subsidiary was a pass through company which was to avoid some of the tax consequences but there's so much that business expenses on the profit side that it's leaving little or almost very minimal amount to the fur inside for the restoration purposes and i need to know if that's verifiable or i mean correct but that's what i see right now and i apologize if i am wrong i haven't had enough time to review everything but i i know that watson has been working very hard in defeat and very diligently did supply us the documents and i guess they're there on their side been they've gone through a lot of different struggles in keeping the documents saint i have been trying to get his information for the last several months so  yeah i believe mr obama we did give them five hundred thousand for the restoration last couple budget here but that's what i don't see maybe we should just change how we are approaching this and make this a budget consideration and terminate this parking agreement chair of the department standpoint you know dobby something that would be coming from a council thing if it was a straight up where we take the parking lot and then into the same process of leasing it out or if it's i thought friends were supposed to take care of the pond and apparently the parking lot covers the pond so how do you you know that you're supposed to be restoring the pond but yet the parking lot is on the pond and that also is a cash revenue source for the profit side so what is the incentive to i don't know i point mr couch thank you mr chair and i have some history on this one because i worked on it again when i was on the name floor very early on the intent was to lease them the parking lot they could raise funds to work on the restoration first thing was to move the parking lot to further because part of the pond was in the parking lot so that was the first thing in a it's my understanding that they were having some issues with salvation army because that's the property there are some property concerned i believe they were in the intention was eventually to buy the salvation army's part because i think that's part of it as well but anyway that being said that was the intent and yes the funds were supposed to be to for friends of to restore the  pond my question here today is who are the employees of this k or k versus who are the employees of friends of ok so we have a site maintenance then you have i provide ten percent of my time for management ok now that's a question i would have for either accountants or lawyers or anything is having a nonprofit had also had the for profit so i'm not sure how that works if you can that's fine so i'm not sure of those numbers are correct because when i came on board and twenty thirteen there was a balance left i was about one hundred sixty eight thousand dollars that we turned back to and maybe our financial folks the analysts can maybe go through and see what's going on i'm not sure i want to spend funds yet to do any kind of about it unless we can have a little bit more time to look at it with our staffs  me ask the department who has the oversight of the of the concession is that the parks department and do you have annual reports of how the concession is being operated because i did read request documents and i didn't receive anything from the department chair no we have no records on the concession from as far as from a caller we work with them but we personnel receive the reports which is what i was go miss you wouldn't reference i notice they have a financial and auditors report for june twenty thirty two twenty  mentions andy subsidiary so i i think we we have before us information that i can work with bill that involves where the subsidiary is actually passing passing through the money the way that i looked at it was like ok let's look at the federal income tax and see exactly how much is being donated from the pro d to to the friend side my question was it we have to go back to what is our assignment our assignments to review the lease and the concession and whether the language that was provided in the lease and license that the revenues that were to be generated from the parking lot is to be used specifically for the restoration and all granted we could probably give some leeway for some business expenses for the pass through company which was supposedly created to run the parking lot but if you look at the income taxes there's a substantial amount of business expenses from that company so i guess we've got to get back to what mr comma said is this something that is achieving the goal that we set out for in the council did in the past and according to mr couch his historical perspective his yard this this money was supposed to be generated for restoration not for computers and all that other business expenses that were in the income tax so i'm not sure what you know what this council wants to do with it but i would like to ask the finance department if they could assist since since the parks department doesn't have any previous documentation on oversight of this concession can you lend your assistance to review these documents that were presented and see whether there in conformity the numbers are in conformity with the objective of the lease and white since that we are so are assigned to review and what is before us this committee is approving whether they can continue to have this concession or not professional audit but for for our you know for being acquitted in reviewing these documents kick you and your assistance in the finance department to assist in sure ok if given right in the middle of our care for so we need some time to do that we can't obviously just crop everything we have our auditors in town etc so if we are forgiven a proper amount of completely agree that we need to look at the real fundamentals of this which is is it fulfilling the mission this license and is it written to is it  there's something going on here and share a totally disagree and have even howard this audit or whatever compiling the information and paperwork done in house i want a third party outside entity doing this audit because unfortunately i've had had meetings with the partment marin clue did and things aren't panning out are not going to say untrustworthy i'm not going to say it but i'm just saying i think we're due an outside independent set i is to look through all this paperwork because as and i look through it and i tell you i got twenty two years worth of information on this to piece it together it's quite an undertaking i don't think you'd be fair or what have you to put upon department of finance among says he said he's trying to put together care for and what have you so i think  deserves its own set of eyes as an independent also auditor i have a trillion zillion questions i'm not going to go there but that is my in a nutshell comment in regards to  the juncture we're in on the subject matter thank you thank you when i reviewed the two thousand and thirteen audit he indicated that some of the walking tour is it is part of the expenses for f l and but i can't determine whether the revenues that were transferred from the profit side to four am for the purpose of restoration whether that money was being used for that tour tour side or the educational side because if we're looking at clearly the language the strict language that's in the lease and license it's for the purpose of restoration and i might need a corporation counsel's opinion whether the walking tour and all the educational part falls under restoration are not those are some questions i had just on the surface because i haven't had an opportunity to review all of it but i see where you're coming from a member cochrane i'd like to have a better consensus of whether the numbers feel this there's a need to organize this or how the an audit an auditor independent auditor organize all the documents mr college took us to chair and my comments were that if we can have our our own internal coun services staff take a look at it first before we expend the money i do i would like to have somebody look at it and if that doesn't work then i would go to the outside auditor that being said i'm just i'm very concerned about you  in one of your questions in your october sixth letter i'm concerned the whole reporting you know section ten use of premises basically says that the first three years  it shall be reviewed and in its discretion approved by the maori county council by separate resolution at the end of the first three years and then every five years thereafter i don't know that the council has seen any report who's responsible for getting the report if it's something that the council is needs to poke somebody then that's fine i need to see that but normally that doesn't happen normally it's either whoever has the lease which i believe is the department of finances so opposed to come up and say oh your three years is up take a look at this so i'm a little concerned that we haven't had any of these reports at all i kind of when i looked at that i kind of put it in the same context of you know when developers have conditions and they have to put in those you know there is requirements for them to put in reports i would say the burden is on the licensee to submit reports because just like developers it's in their condition for them to submit reports it's not us as a county go chase down development this is this language is in their license and lease that they're there is every three years or every annually sorry annually reports to be submitted and according to the department of parks there are no reports to be fought i am a little bit be founded and dumbfounded or whatever the language mr chair what you say that and i understand that usually if that's the case there are consequences if they don't do that here in the response back from corporations counsel yes from corporation counsel it says the lack of review by counsel at the doesn't need three and five year markers does not automatically negate the lease or license that matter was not on the council of denver for review at the designated review periods it is merely an oversight and we can go to a breach by fall i think that's more than  a breach i mean a merely an oversight maybe it's not clear in the lease who is supposed to do this initiate the three in five years thing and maybe that's why grant report to the parks and recreation department since the execution of the license in the lease that grant report requires us to submit financial statements minutes of the board means as well as a layout on what our activities and propose activities are going to be so i'm not sure what reporting you're talking about let's get to department so the question i was asked was the concession report is out was asked if we had a backup of talking about i think with that being said there's always been that gap of has it been so it was it's and then again with the cultural aspect of it you know we always question that turn around to go back to that so we do have certain things but for the concession part of it as i'm trying to track where the money is being spent because according to the license and least the money that's been generated from the parking lot is supposed to be going to restoration of the audience and the documents that i have before me does not give me a clear picture on how that money is being spent for the restoration purposes and that's why i need a little bit of professional help to to identify what mon committee to get the reports as if it's supposed to come to council and they were complete oversight still receiving reports from from the departments also i think of as well as a complete financial audit separating the actual therefore and the subsidiary and the organizational structure so that we can understand what's allowed under the nonprofit rulings and the i r s i think we need to have some sort of explanation for the non profit and the you know i started again like i said i started in two thousand and thirteen and a lot of the issues that are coming forward that you're bringing forward we are experiencing in office and trying to get to them in a timely manner is running into problems since it's just me i don't know what is proper to be covered under as opposed to friends who look but it appears that there are there may be legitimate expenses at that level will that reduce the taxable income so they whatever is appropriate is probably ok there's little doubt in my mind that those expenses although they're there lodged under the  profit section are focused on the restoration because that's what the whole organization's focus is whether they've been as effective as all of us would like them to god is that is another question issues that have been around for quite some time so i think it's i think it's important that we get to the bottom of where the money is being collected how it's being spent i think mr okama brings up  an interesting perspective and because it in looking at this eleven twenty thirty thousand dollars or a little bit more than thirty thousand dollars is actually being paid out in taxes so instead of the county collecting it from diamond written and diamond parking in which case it wouldn't be taxed at all there would be if there be thirty thousand dollars more that could go towards this function so i think this is an appropriate thing to take a look at i would caution everybody that while this parking lot is a is a function mean and revenue generating entity now once the restoration starts parking lot a good portion of the parking lot goes away because part of mccool island is under the parking lot so it's you know this is a we're going to have to transition to a a allocation to them for the purposes of restoration at some point anyway so you know again i think it's it's good that we take a look back but at some point we have to start taking a look forward to in reality a big point that i've got a big big job to do you know they've been trying and sometimes not so successfully to get things done they've had challenges from other members of the community they've had challenges of a variety of things but we as the council have a responsibility to figure out with the administration what way forward is the best way because it's been languishing for twenty years you know i don't think it's anything that any of us can be proud of but we need to use whatever information we've got now and plot an appropriate way forward and i don't know that we know exactly what that way forward is right now but but we hope i hope that at some point we can get a good focus on how best to achieve the restoration because we're a long or a long way from being where we need to be right thank you so if we're looking at the long term goals right it's whether we really don't i mean maybe we shouldn't just approve this and just start thinking about how we're going to appropriate certain monies just for restoration and then exploit you if and maybe just you know to rid of this whole parking lot concession and i mean that's what i'm hearing is like we should start planning ahead in looking whether there's a different avenue of appropriations or that you know this is just my sense but the chair the the restoration in my view is best done through a nonprofit because they're not subjected to the the the same level of you know  county is subjected to so therefore there's there's probably less time and expense it's going to go and do it if it's done through a nonprofit but you know we've got to get going i agree mr couch yeah i agree with mr white i mean you know we mentioned that the part of the pond is under the parking lot i still that there's maybe things been discovered since then that there's an ability to move the parking lot so that you can still grow because a we need parking in that area right mr cochran there's we kind of need parking in that area and then be it's a way to get revenue for the organization so i still think we should look into the possibility of moving that parking lot if it doesn't encroach upon the ponder the restoration project process that way we don't am going to go ahead and is called on ari again one just refocus on is this the right entity to be carrying out this mission and what it's been built to do but what i'd like to ask of this committee is can we do a site inspection i'd like all of you to go and walk this land and go and see the condition that it's in and think back when it was initiated organize in p whether and how far it's come where the lack of you folks make that determination with your own eyes in your own spirit because that's what i think is needed we can the land and get a tour you know maybe maybe experience the small you know walking tour that they make a profit on you know and see how it works i don't know just a recommended i don't know if that's maybe maybe if we can get a consensus then we can do that and looking and appreciate all the comments from the members we should be looking for but my thing is if we allow them to currently go as they have over the last x amount of years of long will it take of this type of funding for the restoration to really reach completion twenty years twenty five years is that a reasonable expectation for the county our resources as well as their native point community if we want things to achieve it a certain did a point in time and give it the integrity and the respect he deserves then i think we need to look at how we're going to help it reach to completion date at a more reasonable time then if we need for the county to take back his assets and find budgeting from a certain perspective then let's be open to that because i would tell you if you look back because i was sitting on the council where was the county's financial position in two thousand two thousand and two it's it wasn't as good as it is today are county to allow us not to look at more ways to finance things this is one of what colony didn't have cash to cash in that time and era we had big debts we borrowed the hell out of our credit cards and we should carry over savings but we did in short a smoking screen of the debt time so change and this may not have necessary flow in if our financial profit and loss sheets was a lot better than what it was then so i give you a different perspective with the historical component that this so we did at that point in time on the those situations the team we have the opportunity to look at now  different options and i think we can expedite and help this project go for and complete it sooner because i think it's something worthy for us to help and get completed soon at then leave the chairman and so i just appreciate you letting me share those few words thank you i think you're on point there and i think everyone and that had spoken tribute to the discussion has very good points and the i think we're on the same page in trying to make sure that the ultimate goal is to make sure that restoration is completed and maybe you know when this will this type of methodology of funding the restoration was done at a time or as mr obama said that the county didn't have the cash flow maybe it's time for us to take a different perspective in and see whether this is not the right vehicle to fund the restoration maybe it's a because i feel that there's a lot of focus on the revenue of this parking lot when i know there's a much bigger bigger sums of money that can be gotten outside of our little town outside of the state outside of this country even this is an internationally renowned spot it is been documented and shown and when dr christian clear was here he had to hire a p r person to keep up with all the stuff they had to address internationally project you know all that sort of died away and it's you know kind of an idol in a sense so i think there's room for revitalizing and getting it out fear and garnering outside interests to fund it and i think this body of count this county can reach out and as you get assisted by people of this nature so i you know i think just keep focusing on parking operating a parking lot i don't think we have to so maybe it's you know it's time to look at other funds that miss cochran is talking about coming from outside you know foundations and so forth simply won't come because they won't contribute to a county funded project if it's a county managed project if it's managed by a nonprofit and they will provide funding to assist in them with the completion and the end of the focus of the project and i you know i agree we need to we can't be focused on the parking lot a lot and we need to focus on the fact that we've got a difficult amount of work that has to be done we're in the process of doing the archeological inventory survey i don't know where we are with parking lot i care about the fence because we're doing work in the area of the very very sensitive area and if we don't put the park parking lot we'll put the fence up and we're not and we're not doing our job to protect the integrity of the site so i i would like us to move beyond the parking and focus on what it what it is that we need to do to accomplish the goal of restoration and get moving i know that you referred to our committee item forty two which is the restoration but that is separate item so right now we're we're tasks are charged to just best type of vehicle to to be used for appropriations for the restoration or not and if it's not and we have a plan we've developed a plan to replace this type of finding then i'm open to hearing that plan because you know i will put this to a vote right now and as long as we have of a forward plan and how we're going to appropriate monies for the restoration so that we can a forward plan and if that four plan looks good we have an audit any way we can look at it to see if that's viable or not we can still have made that decision to allow them for a temporary time w would have to wait another five years to review the concession again because it's every five years where we review under the license and lease so really this is the time for really talking about you know that that's make that ford plan and how we're going to appropriate or do away with the concession this is the time now because we have to wait another five years to review the concession but anyways i'm going to without any other questions to parking lot concession in the revenue derived from that one of the reasons why it would not be a good idea for the county to do an annual appropriations to the friends because it's government dollars and government dollars chase away private dollars the way it's set up right now and i like i said i just came in i'm only been there for two years but from a grant writing perspective and profit perspective you need the private dollars in order to be able to attract public dollars ok so right now at the going rate that we are currently getting revenue from the parking lot concession right this past year was barely enough to cover the cost of the ai yes correct ok the international community is very well aware of the existence of the not come for it because nobody went back and talk to them so this past year we've made contact with sacred sites international they're going to come for another visit this past month i met with several national foundation's seeking support for hawaii so they are now back on line i am trying to figure out how i'm going to be able to write out my grants and get them out into the community by the end of the year so that we can start getting some of this money into our project by next year the fencing is been delayed according to the mayor's office we may not see the parents in until probably the first quarter of next year which means nothing happens until after march which kind of gives us a good time frame for the planning services because once the archaeology work and we can move in immediately to start and finish off what they what we are attempting to do starting next year is not just excavate but actually restore inspection so that we can start working i understand the frustration not only of the county council and its administration but the community as a whole that it's too long or any it's been too long and we need to figure out a way to get to move dirt at mobile or let him in a timely manner so that we can continue to build the support that we need for that project to completion  i'm perfectly capable a resume the fines necessary to do that and i have been consulting with experts in the field in archaeology and i answer apology not just a clicker as well as museums and what we need to put in place in order to start work i think that the friends of michael are ready to proceed we have identified our experts that we are going to bring on site as soon as we start but i need to be able to a proposal for a management audit i will wait for you to send me the specifics that you want covered in that audit and we'll get that going right away in addition to that i can also submit a comprehensive report on the plan that we put together to move that forward to a county council and come back to you and do a presentation and commit to doing follow up meetings and reviews with the council more thing can you give us an update on the fence or why it's not able to get done until first quarter of next year i will have to follow up on that that came from that was an administration of the fifty but they're putting up the bid again and the business came in way too high of the fifty thousand does not even cover you know part of it so as far as that's what the delay is right now i see well we maybe it's their history or civics classes academy junior and senior class has to come and work with us on site the issue is that we have to make sure that they're fully trained in the work that needs to be done it's not just going with shovels or wood toothbrushes i was right you saw we have built in training component into the program we're turning the project into a program because we need to start training our people our young people for this kind of work so yes that is part of our plan and i am going to be talking to the new chancellor at u h m