effect of i don't understand why we don't trust the circulator the circulator signature for all of the names on the sheet and so just compare the circulators signature with the notary public is a test of two is that board ok i do agree that it's the statute that controls here and what the districts are doing in front of the board was that they do that exactly that if they compare the signatures are more petition to the signature on the registration card and to make a and it's ludicrous to think that a school board wouldn't consider future children and i say that from a position of being a baby boomer and as i was going through grade school schools were being built to accommodate us and now that the  school age population is collapsing they're being torn down school boards have to consider future children and in this case the future children they could have been considering with the children who really pre k the children of some of the here petitioners who so you're not saying that they couldn't meet if there's detachment they could go either way they'd have to go to the current and next school districts or ect so what we have here in the evidence that was two high schools in particular they were using allegedly the same data and they came with vastly different opinions how does that reconcile i believe you are the doctor  english classes in kids to go and there are six sections of freshman english and will work there still is similarly one course reflected in the in the catalog one freshman english course offered but several sections wh in trouble and if this if this detachment occurs they're going to have to cut staff which will cut classes for the rest of the children remaining it may well be that the school is going to have to cut find places to cut that in that particular be the ones that cause the problem the loss of those three there are problems in doing it to the school system but that's not the discussion here today now one of the issues with respect to curriculum is that i think that the test scores are higher in the hinsdale area the area schools in wasn't testified to that most of the children a large percentage of those children these private tutors based upon their ability to pay for the time to go isn't that something that you should look at and determine the difference in test where the testimony came from the fellow who does the trumpet private trumpet lessons and he said he saw as he was in private homes you saw tutors coming in and going out i don't know that having a tutor means that they had a mother provided by the school to help the child as opposed to the child is in academic trouble because the child is not getting the help with the internet individualized help that he needs in the classroom i don't know that the presence or absence of tutors would make a difference here there are students in the district eighty six attention they're getting from their teachers in school or their parents or their parents but they have to but it affects the test scores ultimately and that's what we're really the performance scores because that's what the world looks now when we look at education the performance this request well we argue that because it's a balance or there isn't any appreciable difference in the curriculum and the facilities and ultimately the finances congress as we look to the general welfare of the children the benefit to the welfare of the believe of course it's all about money for us i think if you listen to their argument it's all about money for them and they're talking about the loss of finances to them that they will need for money that came about by in this case and that the committee of ten needs to support this litigation to support the petition and to support now they're going through this circuit court in the appellate court it's net sheep as you well know so the sun is that were placed in some homeowners minds were homeowners consent and the senate said we support it with the dollars and with a downer sign and that was the intention for that was to let people know this family has contributed to our effort please help us remarks i noticed that she suggested that the board read the clarion case something i'm relatively familiar with isn't there a problem the way this hearing and many other hearings are run this one is the one in particular where you invite public comment but yet you give it absolutely no shift but how do you disregard it you have twenty people stand testifying to certain things how does the human brain disregard it we know juries don't necessarily disregard all that we tell them too and in fact there are studies that think judges who are supposed to disregard it don't do it so how do we expect out of this board to have disregarded this public i think that the record here tells you what the how to destroy what they say what they did you know what i'm getting at is that if you look at how many people provide public comment the greater weight of that public comment was provided by people who supported districts i want my children to go here because they have better opportunities well perhaps in this case we work in the boardroom but the board was guided by counsel and perhaps counsel made it clear as he did so in many of these hearings that that kind of it would not be that the board of review considered and so there's no credibility determination that they may that you're not in the same position to make the same one who was really good as presented that and you the signatures were valid and the actual evidence for example yesterday the true color saying if they is but now this is was the judge or and so it was some judge or doctor or something of that nature i don't recall them fast pacific of the differences but i don't recall that particular example where the changes in significant were the contention was purely negative and there was no reason to address it on review no obviously you did raise it you did raise it we raised the issue i presented no actual evidence of th some of the differences of the so is a critical i want to point out initially the finding of the board is that the curriculum and the saudis are the same they're comparable so there's no educational benefit because you're receiving essentially the same educational benefit no matter whether you grant educational benefit that was provided by the national forces and i think council on his way to say that she's just comparing the forces telling how many are here versus how many are there and i think dr shields who has a lot of experience education in developing the only other decision the trainer he raises about test scores at the outset i point out that the regional poor didn't make a finding that the tests for showing educational benefit that's a creation of the petitioners and the only evidence in the record with respect to task force was that of dr sh krause who was the principal of high school and dr phil says you got to look at a lot of different things when you're considering test scores and one of them is the social economic status of the students who are taking the test or whether they're leaving the district will go high school has twenty seven percent  more low income students then still central that's a significant number they have is almost seven percent more transitory students don't roll over cry school are on the central high school that's a significant number and in her opinion she was saying i think the number should be greater given the economic disparities of these kids and that the only evidence in the record with respect to test scores something nightmares you can answer here we have three percent higher state english as a second language students as well so you know we also often offer more shelter classes to help those students along because that's our student population so there's no finding that test scores get an educational benefit and frankly the only evidence of the writer is that the test scores don't necessarily show that there's a better education  inappropriate comparison because you're comparing apples and oranges and so i think that the writers of a substantial period if there is an increase in travel time and there's an increase in the hazards of that younger drivers are going to be confronting such as more intersections and more relish traffic and things of that nature i would then have it then maybe significantly inclement weather is theory of danger when the kids are on the bus to little brook that they would be on longer than sixty minutes which i think is a kind of a landmark time one of the areas that i think really needs some addressing the clarification of the financial lucian's the regional word in these findings that the financial evidence of the injecting school districts was flawed so that the financial testimony given was uncontroverted that any further cuts would have to come from programs and staff both dr carol and dr evans testified at length as to the in addition to their core croll grams where they have twenty four full time certified teachers they have approximately fifty full time certified staff they testified that any further cuts were going to have to come from programs in staff in dr curl testify that might fit those additional things that benefit of the serious step to him and to the remaining students in that district so what how did they explain how it was flawed or they just use their flawed and therefore skewed they just used that term and then really the only th reserves stated on page one they omitted to tell you that the testimony was it was on page four of the same financial reports the money was there it was also explained on contradicted that really wasn't a full two million of reserves because the district sells tax into suppression warrants it had borrowed money by selling tax once that had to be repaid that here was one million seven hundred fifty thousand so that that moon the attending the public schools the remaining students that were referenced in the testimony from the timber trails subdivision were in private school and in response to the question you asked earlier when the question was raised about the choice that the petitioners testified to what their what they actually were saying was they one of the choices whether they were going to keep their kids in private school or they might send them to the public school but they did not commit that they were going to send them to the public school with this detachment for granted but the bottom line is that if this attachment were granted the overwhelming testimony of the parents of the kids actually affected those kids in school was that they did not want to change they like the s nobody contradicted that at all and it's not because of the cost per student but the cost per student is then is weighed against the the taxes you pay for the real estate taxes primarily in fact the testimony was that the cost per student really is and is a non issue here because the students are spread across several grades so if you take one student out of a class the cost of operating that class doesn't change we still have the teacher we still have the building we still have all the bussing plus we have everything that's there taking that one student now doesn't save us anything so in the house that the student lived in goes off of your tax revenues that assessed value to lose those you have to look at the district and its actual budget which was on contradicted here but in fact if if if we had a district with huge surpluses maybe four hundred thousand doesn't mean much but in the district our size were  numbers that are in six figures like that where we may be looking at cutting up to ten staff and these programs that affect those kids remaining in med school it's a huge it's a huge deficit for should we look at zero or should anyone look at the percentage that four hundred thousand to the total budget or do we just look at the four hundred thousand and what it means i think you can look at the percentage but i think that's less meaningful and i think that's what the reference was in carver  actually healthy it considering where you are today and here we are on the mall school districts are the day where the state's been holding back on state t v where we know you these are going down if you look at that the number  anything to do with our standard if you does it i mean if they were asked you to do or any attorneys in the case ask the court to do something by way of back fine or by way of relieving evidence that they don't been tonight close to two million with million nine now do we want this district for and it is going to suffer here is self inflicted and i say that because in twenty two year before this hearing district forty eight retired two million dollars in debt principal they need to do that with discretionary decision which they do with their money but they are facing this detachment there is not such a big decision well again they need the decision they didn't do it i mean we look at a lot of decisions like this in divorce cases where you changed your circumstance because you were getting a divorce there is nothing in this record indicates that sokrates did this because they were onerous going on i'm not suggesting they did it because