step up identify yourselves remember this is not a microphone this is a record device so you'll have to keep your voices up in order to compete with the traffic on the south street how much of that plastic bag was outside of the pocket when the officer observed according to officer mom's testimony she saw two to three inches of plastic that was outside of the pocket indulge in the contraband the other simply as a means of caring yes then it can be used so why should carrying it you know be comparable to want it or why should why should we require such a high showing for when it's just a means of keeping everything together as opposed to actually using the kind of i think that all of that we should maintain a high standard with regard to plastic bags in particular because they're used so often and because  on the significance of the fact that this passenger sitting in the car made a snide remark to the police officer are you concerned at all whether or not that gave rise to power because for  remark but it wasn't it was basically just a summary of the evidence and in the court denied a motion to us i did ask your point to follow cases to find the plastic bags alone are not immediately incriminating they can be used for many a legitimate purposes  my best case is people versus hilts and in that case based on the totality of the circumstances which included the early morning hours the presence of a unique plastic bag and offices previous law enforcement experience  the court held that officers had probable cause to search the car where defendant was a passenger when the car was pulled over for having expired license plates and the officer saw not it piece of plastic bag on the floor the no stick with the bag in time and you know that's correct so when it comes to the plumber the peach know it could not fit in his five pants pocket it's it's two bars and there was no bowls there was just fruiting two to three inches of the plastic that just the top when it comes to the seeds that's correct but but again when we look at the facts of this is two am after a model was driving her squad car west out on f ten when she observed defendant who's the passenger driving northbound on menard she sees defendant for a large hand out of the car window and that's when she stops the scar as she approaches on the passenger side intending to cite connection officer remodelled testified to the scene like some type of large can she says it may have been some type of garbage bag she knew the defendant was littering and that's what made her approach the vehicle  h the questionnaires what made her pull the plastic out of his pocket that's because it's the truth in two to three inches and also was based on her firearm foresman experience and she testifies that she more law enforcement experience than some of the other cases where we have even n people versus washington that officer testified that he had three hundred prior chaotic space arrests and here we have officer with three hundred to four hundred fourteen years on the we would be looking for to uphold the officers experience this permitted the sort of seizure to occur right that that type of specific testimony is helpful that however based on the specific testimony definitely would have been helpful but based on her point based on your she never testified that she had not encountered these bad she did she does have thirteen years on the fourth and  hours that it was two am that defendant threw a large hand out of the window in plain view of the police then the defendant also had a slight response when questioned about throwing out the sludge hand and also up two to three inches of the bag and based on her prior law enforcement experience she thought it contained drugs and she took it out also the incriminating nature of this bag was immediately apparent to the police officer and lawfully in the place that falls under the first prong here the the facts are different the officer is actually in the place where she where she sees the object he cause of the littering that took place so the facts are different is still does that point three grams of heroin out of the same pocket in another clear not a plastic bag so we have a saw that shows that this is the way that narcotics are package also in denying defendants motion to reconsider the court