appointment in light of that i would actually like to move that to be with our charter change executive sessions because we will very likely end up since it's a personal matter tha and we're also losing zack who is not here tonight he's been working but you've seen him out on past meetings he's been working with ever creation's program he's a spearhead basketball a lot of programming at the library this summer for young people always willing to kind of jump expertise they will be fairing missed on our team bunch of other updates for you so i shared with you the recent communication from the a c l u about our pin handling or mince wanted to touch base on that as you know section six point fourteen of our women's talks about aggressive panhandling and if there is interest from the council i bring forward for at a future meeting repeal of that section of the ordinance from staff perspective it's not something we've been forced over the last couple of years and we're comfortable with considering it's considering taking it off the record so generally seeing some support i'll put that on a future agenda we have a number of new businesses in town we heard from working as you know on updating their noise exposure map with the f thirty five data that's why it demonstrates where we will see the impact and when and thirty five arrive next september they have indicated that they will release that updated map in december the tentatively right now are planning a public hearing at the airport around that map and december fifth much more information forthcoming about this and we will try to promote it i am really encouraging them to have that public hearing after they've released the maps of people know the impact on these key before that public hearing and then assuming that process moves forward the map and the noise compatibility program application which is what kind of mitigation sound medication techniques will be used will go to the f a a in the spring for approval there's all sorts of timelines associated with approval and funding will be able to be requested the following year this means that if when new skis affected  and if the sound mitigation funds are approved by the f a a the soon as we could have access to that is fall of twenty twenty which obviously doing the math is the year after the f thirty five come having said that it is a big advantage to us that they that the airport fast track to the empty of the noise exposure meant they had not previously been intending to do that which meant even if we were impacted we wouldn't have access to those boats so more to come out but i want to put on your radar that likely early december there will be some significant public process around what are potential exposure maybe therefore is also starting a new master planning process they issued a master plan about five years ago they're up much like we do they have a regional master playing committee made up of people from all over communities that i plan to attend and if anyone else is interested in attending certainly encourage you to reach out  the building so all four families were displaced last night three are now back in the residence three units are back in ones out the one we hope to be returning in about a week and they're currently being put up by like the landlord in a  hotel while there's no official cause determined we do believe that it was caused by inappropriately disposed of smoking material so cigarette butts which makes this the third fire in about a year that is started that way about fifty thousand dollars worth of property damage so we are intending to start some public education with people around properly disposing of cigarettes to try and prevent that teacher so heads up that that will be coming  p next wednesday night at the september twelfth at six of the clocke at the law which is a public meeting on actually fifty two fifty has been going around the state collecting feedback on the future of that state legislation so people are interested in development patterns around act two fifty please consider attending i believe eric and i will be attending and then tomorrow is our second to last when you ski wednesday  service as the chair of the commission and i assume that when the commission returns that some type of they will be voting on what that leadership position looks like for them other than that when you see community purse ship city housing authority who are in an effort to engage the entity more broadly in regards to in involvement with the city connections there and working together  i want to express my extreme disappointment and frustration with the way the a c l u actually handle their nose to new skin regards to the issue i do look forward to seeing us address it in a public meeting council based on some suggestions that came up at the last public works meeting and just some ideas that i have had about how we can be more effective saluting getting into that leadership and i had a meeting with we're open up first for questions comments concerns from council you know one one thing that we've had discussions about here before is what types of content resolutions the council wants to see on a i was thinking about with this resolution  somewhere often voting on things there well so far since i've been here voting on things to bring to a public vote later or like taking on resolutions for example f thirty five thing that i have some historical foundation in the community opinions about it and so like saying this resolution here i don't actually have any contacts on how other residents feel about this issue and so i'm a little uncomfortable with like the council of taking this stance without having any background i think to your point set about how i think this fits into like your point about the kinds of issues that we want to see  this is like an issue that's really big obviously world rule level that i don't feel like and are the direct connection to what we can do as a council like for the city  s we have a lot of issues that we need to confront as a city and concerned about our focus be directed toward making more political statements that i actually you know they grieve with some of the concerns and issues and potentially it's a place for the vermont legislature to grapple with this type of a resolution but it just doesn't feel like the work that we should be doing i absolutely understand it here where people are coming from but i also don't worry that it will take an exorbitant amount of time for us to move through these as they come up on issues that really do have a big impact think there is something about power in numbers and i think more importantly it's his really a statement to take if you can name to our children and our next generation this is a really important issue for us to consider in this world you know stance against war and the infrastructure that perpetuates war i think is important and important for kids to to see adults sticking their neck out on an issue that could be controversial but i do i do support it and i think it's an important place that we should get behind it and say that this is important for concerns of the city of the new city residents and i fully appreciate that this is something that's felt very strongly by a residence and individuals in the community it is not to me within the the city from a from a general perspective in terms of business and i share the concern that it can serve the something that actually becomes quite frankly and i don't know that causes disagreement offices and legislators and i certainly think that there's a real place for that for people that's the way that they want issues that they want to address but when it comes to we're sitting at this table i feel strongly like from a content perspective it's important to stay really focused on the things that we controls the city in the outcomes that we can actually take on the community in a very direct way i think that closure and will be held on for lack of a better term it's a virtual firing range but it also a corporate deescalation and judgment and training for police officers or parades a basic firearm skills being able to work on some things that where all the officers could actually participate in this call i included a couple of pages in my program for you it's called life and it's basically implementing communications assessment and a community police academy and i think this will be a really good tool for people to experience what it's like to be in the shoes of the police officer so scar lives i think just to underline a point the chief may i think they're really manager of the system not only is bringing in how some of our ability to do professional development but also framing firearm professional development within the just for full disclosure to you i know it's in the back to bush probably voices that the jacaranda stuff covers eleven thousand three hundred seventy five dollars and the remaining ten thousand nine hundred twenty six dollars i plan on one and again just to underline a point i think bin advantage of credit combination of the simulator and that had training especially in done in conjunction with the three communities is that officers all sorts speaking the same language  so when they're deployed for your mutual aid on a scene they're all speaking the same language they know the prioritization of deescalation etc so i think that that's in that resource sharing aid approach has an advantage for all of our re change specific things within the scenario you know who the perpetrator is race all different kinds of things we can change based on how the officers are responding to the scenario there's a little treat of options november on all citizens or all resident or non citizen voting after your approval that time i met with cancer companies he referred to earlier to really understand the intent that he was looking for on behalf of the council so there were three different things articulated one was the intent to allow any resident eighteen or older to vote in municipal elections including city and school money votes budget votes on votes as well as actual track changes version of the charter that would incorporate those three intense fear consideration and this is what ultimately would be moved forward to the voters if you so choose obviously after discussion  the second document is those places where citizen appears in the charter where we would recommend just changing nap word to resident and then the third because it came up is a memo from the city attorney about provide any legal guidance just as a reminder the process would be tonight to discuss the actual language if you choose to move it forward at the next council meeting we would bring forward the actual documents to be voted on for placement on to the ballot and then there would be a two public hearing process before the ballot was finalized once he would take them the last thing i'll say is we're happy to answer any questions now or hear any discussion if you do want to have a discussion about potential liability that we may open ourselves up to we would ask that that conversation be held in executive session so i would is to ensure that the council is a body feels like it is those three points act accurately represent the council's intent in regards to the schools for outcomes and i'm speaking to first as a memorandum concerning the trip the change in the remark constitution so maybe we can just take that issue first from the mementoes standpoint so as i was looking at this issue one  one big issue that popped out at me was what effect does the provision in the from our constitution on this on this proposal because it does affect the strategy that the city council may want to adopt depending on how  gives to any person the in years of age who was also a citizen of the united states and a resident of the state the bill will be to vote in the election state so the question is does that constitutional provision apply to case of vermont supreme court has directly addressed the question of whether this apology has the power in the face of the mine constitutional provision to open up its local voting item is placed on the ballot it is subject to challenge by a resident of the city on the grounds that it's unconstitutional and that could occur at any step of the process either before the vote at the that is carried over to the beginning of the next place and him it must be approved by both houses of the legislature that point and then present it to the voters of the state for up and that process can be as well and i'm wondering that because if i'm right that plays into the calculus in the legislature two terms of how far they're going to time they can spend exploring the issue and whether or not it can be a stumbling block i hadn't really thought about that but  be understanding there might also not be one because this is doesn't the constitution extend their right to vote to citizens but it isn't anywhere prohibit non citizens from voting certainly the information that he shared was favorable to the conclusion that the constitutional commission does not govern in the civil watch it and just to be clear are of their legal conclusion it's only that it's not not yeah the fact that this particular constitutional provision was amended too many years ago to authorize persons who were not eighteen would not from my own perspective it was decided at a time when the statutes underlined the constitutional provision had did not require citizenship and in fact the legislature after that constitutional provision was in activity in twenty eight had the opportunity to revisit reenact the statutes relating to qualifications to vote and had not changed those qualifications so and now the supreme court in the woodcock case sort of pointed that there is evidence of intent of the legislature  the in the case we have today there is now a state statute that mirrors the constitution so that book at the statutory level and at the constitutional level there is a citizenship require the legislature has carte blanche to create a municipal government as you wish because it's purely a creature of the legislature it's an argument i don't know  cover the cost usual piece the proposed amendment and the city charter and then the elimination of the word citizen in the charter will stop at each of those three points and we'll stop curse can see folks have questions in regards to memorandum concerning the potential charter change in the constitution change that's what that does what i did not do in the in the instructions i had from you folks was to actually include in the proposed amendment was specific amendments to remove the word citizen from other are not a lot of instances that mean militarily speaking there are a lot of influences of the use three of them that's all but i think critically that there's no place where we're  other points running into issues with the words isn't being changed in other words i'm trying to think about what was there in the phone call practical impact that could be instantly noticed so in terms of so we were citizen other places in the turner it's really around engagement to a set of events it's actually i would argue can correct the way it's written now and we're not asking for any citizenship proof as you engage with the city yeah i think there is  the post in front of me does have at least one other consequence if in city government it does well now open the door for non citizens also to serve as city council members or as mayor   there are it i suppose it does raise the question as is in your official rules when you have to interact with the federal government whether that may have some impact if you were not a citizen of thought through that either but there i think that somewhat should be given to those sorts of those sorts of considerations just so good point was but in seriousness i think it does raise the question of whether the body wants to reach out to the school in what manner i think it's advisable at this juncture that we gave them in that conversation and asked that they think it under consideration right feedback because just as a reminder we are moving up the timeline does not have a lot of we go for those things in terms of th meeting or a special meaning that you call within the next two weeks you must vote to put forward specific language to balance and then there are two public hearings and which that mind which is discussed taken the voters oath on the voters both does reference the state of vermont and its super quick i just really quickly do solemnly swear for that whenever you give your voter suffrage touching any matters that concerns the state of vermont you will do so do it so as in your we were limiting access to to the list i want to understand the philosophy behind including that in this change that occurs from your conversation eric the his intent was to protect our voter check list without and i think from an operational standpoint what is going to happen is we are in the city clerk's office is going to be required to keep to voter registration so there's going to be a state of vermont voter registration list and in municipal election put a registration it's and i think there is some concern that if one is successful then we will essentially be creating a list of non citizens in our essentially correct yeah i mean i certainly have some questions as to how we want twenty eight is going to work on its own because it really first two ways is statewide voter checklist and says nothing about multiplicity of purposes and they have to attest that they're not the when the one twenty eight was i don't remember the bill number but it when i was in discussion the idea one is to create some additional to make one request for they still could if they wanted to go through the process make a public records request to every single municipality in vermont get it cobbled together themselves but they couldn't get the larger statewide will reject the so i think the intent really wa significant once again it is not just an exemplary thing that's a solution that's found a problem but this is a whole nother issue because there are a lot of really  are we doing extensive background checks on request or i am not trying to make light of that i'm just again pointing out what how much room for what i think so right now we're we consider are better check with the public record it's incredibly important we do that as well to build a protections around list folder checklist so that it cannot be weaponized where we are now putting community members in harm's way  specifically related to immigration status i don't think there's well solution at large there's no reference to one twenty eight immigration status no but the larger question of if the feds request something to to provide yes i guess what i'm just is i don't i don't think that we're experts on that given the fact that there's the that we received very new kitchen from the attorney general's office that there is not agreement that our hashing this out and having this conversation so i know i'm going to need to read more on it and think about it not going to try to make a decision on it at first cut through stress and bifurcated the two for the next  days well i will figure that out in the i think i think what other municipalities are relying on the states blanket one twenty eight there were  name st is currently mannerly i know that's a great question i think currently under the law registration system somebody can move here tomorrow and as long as they do they know  so i think it's dumb to sign with an intent to state it's currently have residency is the line for voting but there are like forty six different residency or resident descriptions across the statute in general depending on where you're talking about one one homage just for comparison contrast i do have a copy of the draft mom purely her charter change it does not contain any of the provisions supporting act to satisfy him or herself that the person is a legal resident of the united states obviously for citizens can present a social security in the majority stray she can be challenged as well can it not i mean that's i mean even on the titians here you can affirmation when they register to vote they swear we refer that you know that list of things is true and if they're not telling the truth on that they are committing voter registration fraud and perjury itself and so i that's my right and that's so that's i think that would be challenging for us to try to integrate in in that in that case subsection d if within the west of things that are protected if that should include i'm not remembering the exact technical sorry driver privilege cards as and that's just the standard  oh in my last question there are two does this allow from an interest rate of standpoint somebody who is using a regular state of the motherhood or registration form to be registered to be in both on the state and federal checklist as well as the state and federal i mean so it's but i think the operational and again this is a challenge of moving this process quickly as we we've had conversations about this but there's a difference between what the charter and an operational station plan operationally how we've talked about it is citizens would fill out the first state of vermont voter registration form and create the state of vermont voter registration list using that all resident of the non citizen border restrictions that make it clear now with that being said i think it was the thing itself whether citizen was an important component of that or not i can remember but i'm just applying that conversation that we can look ok i think the way that i'm taking this then is there worse and there is not significant language issues i think remembering number two back and number two number  two the voter checklist protection piece i think there were some questions of and i think the school is the most immediate leading one right and then i think there are a number of we would be bringing before you is why anguage that you feel comfortable moving forward to the voters to start that public hearing process and are there specific things you want from us either to change on these documents in advance of putting together those documents or other information you want us to prioritize figuring out in the next two weeks before you're ready to take that so i think the number one is to me that the school of fish number two is number two i think needs to be we need to be able to extract that is my opinion need to be able to easily extract th and i think for the best of our ability and you know we went into the poll also this time i think whatever i think of the operational overview the best that we can give for next time would be would be but whatever we can come up with you you can get the machines programmed to count our support ballots we just couldn't have those same items on the statewide ballot but l not think it's appropriate to limit those public discourse around this current meetings and call that a public hearing call that public engagement on this issue that falls far short i think so i'm just interested in i problem with that is that the next meeting as we move on through forward and language so there's not really there's not really a window for that sort of her before this money has to take that i don't know if there's there isn't and i don't have an answer for ok and what's going to occur in the next two weeks there's nothing scheduled well i don't think anything can occur unless this body decides something can occur so i don't think it's appropriate for individuals to go out and do an agent process until we've had a conversation about that process that's that's why i think that's the agreement that we made  that is generally the procedures that you passed at the beginning of the year that's generally what everybody signs up for just being really wants and so that's what we're doing right that has that has not necessarily been this particular groups and more on all fronts from a stylistic perspective so i think there's opportunity for or it's a short window so if there's something front porch floor or where letting people know that at the next meeting this question is going to be discussed and doing the residents that courtesy to them know that this conversation know why it's happening why you know we're in an expedited downturn that people want to show up to the meeting their way and it's not a limited number of people that for some reason  is what's being talked about but we're proactively saying this is a big deal we've got a nice it's a big deal and we would like your participation and come into this meeting because it's your only chance to do it before we take action and put it on the ballot it makes sense to me like to ask you to do a spokesperson i would like you to come from the city officially but this is something we haven't decided as a council one direction or moving forward and i think it informative to residents and explain things and help them get information gather enough information to be able to make informed decisions that's what the goals of those communications are and i'm sorry i got lost somewhere for people in terms of how the city communicates and what the intent of communication coming directly from the city is but that's what it's for and that's what i've been asked to do for the last four years is try to do that share my own personal perspectives on things plus times i'd love to and if you asked me on the street i'll be happy to share those but generally when you guys make a decision and it's the job of  happy to just because this is such a touchscreen issue will provide an opportunity for individual feedback just as a reminder we can share things like that you can share something like that you can individual listen something back to me from a common respect their concerns perspective but you can't reply at all because then it becomes a conversation and that's the of mean off questions comments concerns from the public council very good the other thing that we did over we did place in here and personally i think this is what you're referencing your it is an opportunity for the city to have an executive session with her attorney related to the implications of church change from our i think ramifications the end point and i'm going to just ask is it i think it's good for people to hear what concerns might exist from liability standpoint f minder that's a personnel issue personal matter the selection of the counsel no decisions get made in executive session anything that requires a vote comes back out from public though and it's discussed hopefully prior to rate impact so table two is the full scope all in the tax rate does increase not equally over time because when debt service picks up so debt service picks up at a point in the future after you've taken the money occurring in the future after grant or low interest loan has been realized so what's presented in the very bottom line is the tax rate increase that we would see each year that cumulated up to the tax rate that's on the property tax increase line so for example in f y twenty the property tax increase is point zero two one for a two percent increase so there are going to jump into your discussion but there are a universe of things between so table two is essentially the worst case scenario if you tell us to go now with everything all of this is the impact table three is the value engineering of the cool and the freezing of main street and we can talk to you about what that means and in detail these are i just need to be really clear these are models it is there are other options in the middle we just try to give you two options and i think one of the hard things sitting in your chair over the next couple of months and years ago this is we can build model well the goal is really to see what information is necessary needed for us to start to formally real decisions guidance and direction for staff we've brought for the last nine neurons providing comprehensive updates on the two models susan was in that meeting to marry the two conversations so we could have a holistic budget directional conversation so this is our opportunity to have pieces of that conjuration i of the show guidelines perpetual plant construction site up and down main street is what people had in mind when they approved the project either that or what that the customer experience spring of twenty one might be at the end of the twenty construction we don't have a huge amount of legal time on that schedule so if that is something you want to move forward on we need to be moving into a final design on th from john jump in here but my understanding is we even if we do a phased approach we need to move the whole project as close to final design as we can somebody know where pipes are going you can't design a water system without knowing where the underground utilities are going over time so we would need to advance that section of the work in advance of the construction phase that i think we don't have quite the same you know in the next two months we need to be approving that contract but i think before a town meeting if we really want to stay on the schedule we would need to be moving based or not face that work needs to happen and again i'm trying to understand how we can help make decisions that are going to happen irrespective of the specific pathname we pack in a timely manner that doesn't waste construction season or whatever was going to rush into to a decision point where we don't necessarily have all the information that would be saying it another way back to you is two and one point are you going to be comfortable enough that both of these are going to happen to some degree but there are financial models that work to some degree and then you feel comfortable authorizing us to move to final design  and that's what we've been trying to do with these models is give you some options of how those revenue streams and expense streams could nine up to to provid despite the fact that there was a lot of conversation in the lead up to the bummer about the value of those young features i i think when we're looking at i'd like to share my take away from the meaning that we had actually done so looking at this phase approach there were a couple of important factors they came up on one is that you know we have the significant funding for this water work that we really need to do anyway and it's the utility we're going streetscape in that we don't have money for yet phasing out in like delaying that actually gives more time to court namely utilities like it's probably not going to feasible that we could set that work because we have to work with them and negotiate on that the planning and stuff and also the funding and then there's also like to the point that john made about potentially doing this work in the having it ripped up as developments coming and having it sounded like an having the full plan set out can be used as a guideline for development so that you know if somebody doesn't really mean streets then we can be telling them like this is what you need to put in for a sidewalk or a tre developers to fund that as they're building up right now the obligation is if a developer digs up a sidewalk to put in a foundation they were please replace as it is so they replace what's there so we're asking them to replace at a but part of the main street project from the beginning was the because the community has said that the court orders are where we want to see density part of the very are to entry for developers is that we are moderniz the utilities and creating you know improve streetscape where they will want to develop improved projects and if we put that cost back on them then we're not realizing that very mean i think it's i think it's we're trying to accomplish both ends and i think i think it's going to i think it's going to have a pretty negative effect personally on the main street to really understand the implications of that i do think that we're all going to have to be willing to compromise quite a bit and we're probably not all about the way it ends up and that one of the projects may be a year long earlier and as hard as that may be for either a business that's on main street projects on a slightly different trajectory than they would often lead from a skilling's you know i just think that that's important from my perspective as we come to the time in peace so what i'm hearing is going for with both which means on us for next steps is to bring forward architecture engineering contracts for both projects for the full thing knowing that phases may stay on the shelf  engineering firms to think about so looking in more detail about what phasing options would be and bringing those back to  so again just to set the schedule or set the table here at the last meeting we had a conversation about schedules for possible consideration of our placement ordinance inclusionary zoning affordable housing trust fund  structure you asked us to come back with an integrated schedule on those two things and comments on our follow housing series eric and i attended the housing commission meeting on monday and fitted with them this this  schedule of these concepts we had put together and they made some changes based on their process and how they would like to hear from experts as they're developing to also it's in front of you is that integrated schedule between now and you potentially adopting policies in february and the concept of this car housing series and the big change tonight is that the housing commission will be inviting experts to their next to housing commission meetings to guide their work as they're thinking about specific tools and will have a lion kind of all in special meeting or in the housing commission planning commission counsel in the public about these tools in general th so really we would love your blessing on this process tonight the only thing i would add is that the discussion of the housing commission focused mostly on on the fact that they were more interested in getting some support as they develop the regulations the drafts rather than having work rather than being the  host more of those and gauging opportunities with their regular meetings zone they felt to be more beneficial the day have you actually in the room of the day to have a conversation with directly rather than have having somebody show up speak and then and then leave while they figure out how to issues the have been the touch point your shoes page about the goal of the replacement on them so the discussion that we had was that the the replacement ordinance would address any housing and then the inclusionary ordinance would address affordable housing ok so that if we were to do it as just a replacement ordinance without inclusionary then we were looking at affordability replacement but since we're also talking about the inclusionary component thank you and then i had one like to suggest possible speakers including the person who wrote the thing recommendations that i think is useful into the background and i'd also we're going to hear from the development community or private property owners i would encourage somebody from the vermont formal housing coalition to be advice as well just to  we've had these special outreaches or the bond votes and i feel like we should be doing more outreach in general just updating community members on what we're doing and like a monthly basis say so when ideal would be you know we have the schools that are now i don't i don't think that's far reaching enough i think we should probably have multiple avenues to get to more people  i know there are some other like random ideas about potential is that rich but i think what's important is that we are being more proactive in sharing what we are doing and also approaching it as like policy that we have about communications at the same time having that conversation because in that policy lead we talk about for example all things like the school newsletter writer school newsletter from a venue standpoint we're ready for that to be really blunt and it's going to tell you that if you put in sort of your personal opinions in there that's on it's for right it's really a very good counsel update i think that's really important because we're really talking about the council round robin that worked pretty well so we're recommending the same process to sneer as well but would love feedback from the council of there are other things they would make you want to see so in the memo attached and we don't need to decide this today really we can just have a conversation and approve it at the next meeting is the process that has you having the budget goal setting session at your october first meeting us working on building a budget october november bringing back the final management budget and beginning of december walking meeting by meeting three content areas in the city for a month approved budget at the end of january and then we've also outlined what the staff internally will do if we follow that structure the big and then finally as we think about this realignment of commissions and pulling the commissions out of operations and to policy not specifically giving them a role in the budget approval process which we quite frankly did not do uniformly last year so in order to kind of maintain expectations of the commission's want to be very clear about that going into this year's process so that's why i want your feedback on i'm happy to either feel feedback now or given that it's nine thirty leave and bring that back to just because i think that's we're going to need and i think this is what we're going around about some specialized opportunities for conversations given some of the things that are focus i think even if we just put on the books and space or souls in a way that tries to lead us reach i think if we just have that one meeting brought her on this is inside that's ideal so do you want me and so i agree i think that is going to be very challenging so just telling your audience and we can set we can go back and look at calendar so an option would be to have to grab that the second monday in december so they have three meetings in december and four in january and another option is set to have a week in january where we do two meetings a week or have a thursday meeting the first week in january when we and i just i think the other thing maybe christine and we can talk about is location you know just in the past we tried to move them to places where like the stuff was i think it was a fun experiment i think it w meeting historically this council has liked to review the policy positions the league is putting forward and comments on how you know directs the vote essentially so i've included then hearing your packet last year that is no longer here some components that may still be but it's also a different body to break but yeah because i know just looking at this there are a lot of things that are those really technical