under eastenders for wetland protection in coachmen into wetlands and buffer areas is generally discourage growing sea point one point one i've seen one point one indicates wetlands and buffer zones both of which show construction in them for including the building parking and trash dumpster area now it's my understanding that these were changes ministre to flee without a public input  my concerns are that with the way this is being built and the way the driveways are constructed that when they plow the snow all that snow is going to end up in go wetly is basically right behind my back yard money mom's back yard we're currently dealing with water problems because of the construction market street where the wetland was interrupted fifteen years ago whenever that was and i'm expecting that this business is going to exasperate that i don't pin going east and up to the driveway of the that we're that they're planning on using the market street rises about seventy inches that's an approximate that's using a hand level just to get these also standing in market street and looking onto the existing driveways it rises almost  sixty six inches something somewhere in that vicinity making it about an eleven foot differential of change now i'm wondering how much fill is planned down at lot for we're all be looking at instead of nice trees i'll be looking at walls that are i don't help all told how tall they are i know that up it at the last condo that to keep them as open space and development value reduce them from their development value to their agricultural value for the purpose of keeping all of these lands and open has to say yes you know this this many t d s exist on these lands yes you can use them in this way on these lands and yes they'll be there after the transaction of the property and that you know everything is basically as you think it's going to be so that's sort of one piece of it and then another piece of it is on a lot which is on the right hand side there there's already a substantial portion that t d r sold and sent from it meaning that the wind has affected we has an easement from the city defined in the application but additionally to that so looking at the existing t d r s that have already been sent off but the entire project we would look for the same recommendation to city council but if there are opportunities for fealty to take the  ways as outlined which is not which is basically just saying there's not going to be any odd restrictions applied specifically to these properties that would be outside of what we already understand and so that's kind of in one bucket and then the other bucket would be  recommending to the city council for the conservation side of things that the easement that the city has through the t d r s that have already been sent that we can have the vermont land trust basically supplant that so the city would revoke its easement on those lands with a simultaneous conservation from the remotely interest the whole reason for that is because the way that vermont land trust does conservation projects is you need to be under their property back in twenty nine two thousand and two thousand and ten and i think essentially the request from the parties including the vermont land trust had been in order to  be clear to their funding partners including ron housing conservation board and the natural and r c s that they those partners wanted a little bit more of a formal acknowledgement of how many t d r s there are in order to pursue their funding so while it is essentially a knowledge min of what the regulation land trust partners had requested that there be a little bit higher more formal statement of that in order for them to be providing the substantial funds towards the conservation so at the time back in two thousand nine thousand and ten the the sense was that the the the organization best suited to do that would be the d r b even though tonight unusual is so paul i understand that it is unusual and it's something that i would personally support but what i'm having a little trouble with is what is the authority for us to take that action well so these so that there's two different questions so the authority to state the number of t d r s is essentially as the stewards of the regulations if somebody were to be say doing a development proposal that that the board in  findings often determines x number of x amount of density was allowed x number of units were proposed so it's sort of in line with a statement of this is the maximum number of t r s in existence here so that that's where we drew the authority from the second half of it which is the request to recommend to the council or regarding the sort of supplanting of the conservation role of the  s the the concurrence of the city attorney and of my interests attorney was that since the since the regulations are the purview of the r be it would be appropriate to have the dealer be make a recommendation that you are finding the this that the vermont land trust method of conservation is  to the cities and then it's ultimately the council's decision to do so so that's the thank you both those i don't want to stop something that appears to have broad support but i am concerned and i think frank would be what we would be doing especially with the first test that you mention paul is issuing something call opinion and i don't believe that is a quasi judicial board we have the authority to issue advisory opinions but that's maybe something that could be taken up with the city  attorney give other comments i just want to make clear that kind of the amendments to the application unless there are other so that what the one amendment that i already mentioned which is that assuming that recommendation goes through that would be they sent yes yeah if they were transferred to another if they moved from their current location yes and the board would be saying that they're making the same recommendation as now with the current t v s that have already been s same what we did i guess this request is coming from the perspective of we don't want we don't want to have to come back here to do the same thing exact same request when r c s has certain deadline and applications of mine so we just are foreseen if we have  any situation where this exact same thing is coming up can we just it's the it's the same request so could we have the same recommendation in agreement now does it make sense for the conditions that would be proposed to be different  supersede the existing conservation restrictions would also be consistent with how they are nine point thirteen see if they were applied to other portions  so there is one other and went to the language that i actually need help with because i don't understand it so i need you guys to tell me what this means so our attorney took a look at this and if you look at under the decision item for b currently it says the number of available development rates on each parcel will not be affected by sale of the parcels unless the sale explicitly includes conditions affecting the development rates honestly i don't even know exactly what that means so what what our attorney said  thinks would make more sense for it to say is so the number of variable development rates on each person will not be affected by the sale of the parcels unless the seo explicitly for sees the development r as part of the conservation sale or process as a creed to buy the applicant so that makes sense to anyone here i only got the first sentence so it's and so starting with unless unless the sale explicitly for goes the development rights as part of the conservation sale or process as agreed to by as agreed to by the africa and i think i asked what the rationale was for this change and he said that it  last but you know explicitly for goes so goes the development rights as part of the conservation sale or process as agreed to by the applicant here he would like to play with the affected by the sale of a parcel because what if the feel of a parcel said we're selling you the part of what we're keeping the development rights so we wanted to have a clause in there saying unless something funny happens with pertaining board go ahead and i guess i want my recommendation would be that if you would like the city turning to look at this the first question is really just a question of fear of your this one sounds like you may have an additional question following it so if that was the case i'd recommend that you continue your next meeting if there's an open question here ok we will continue to get these  what you're saying what the first question was what are the dates that the interest would actually conserve the land so it's conservation tends to be like a multi year process from the point of transaction usually this is a unique scenario where a collection of partners have had to act pretty quickly to purchase the land and then go through a conservation process to conserve the entire property we're looking at a multi year process i can't give you specific dates because i don't think i don't know them i don't think anyone knows them quite yet so i would see this if you want back to that original map i would see it in a sort of phased process where a would probably be the first to be conserved followed by a c and b is the likely scenario would be in place as of the time of the closing of the properties where we would be working with you know remotely interest and other folks to go ahead with that conservation process so that would be happening really as soon as possible but it's part of it  it dear bees approval here and recommendation to the city council so this actually this decision is has a heavy impact on the conservation of the property and then your second question is what what's going to happen with the land in terms of land use after the fact so it will be under explicit like sustainable agriculture practices for the lack of better words there so you'd be seen effectively organic farming whether it was certified or not we should also be that that's possible maybe with someone else that put in an offer and it's hasn't happened with us so our conservation strategy thus far has not failed just to be clear thank you property see here th this is for conservation director our number one goal is to conserve as much of the land as possible what we have to do is basically recognize there's a development value and there's an agricultural value and how do we fill that gap in our number one strategy is through development activities adjacent to streams rivers wetlands all those kinds of things i assert so yes those would those would as well apply there is  some differentiation between how local regulations apply to development versus agriculture because if agriculture in the state of vermont is exempt from local regulations and they fall state regulations  discussions from the d r v about continuing trail access but that's a that would be dependent upon ownership transfer right now the property has not been sold to the foreign entity but that's in comments we are going to ask the members of the public please to show that microphone appear and speaking to the microphone so that the person on the phone can see and hear you clearly and before you speak prevented by yourselves very where it within the land development regulations the project sits in the three branches of government we are the judicial branch and we do not have the power to change the land development regulations so we simply have to say do it does the project do the projects that come forward to us fit within the l d r the legislative branch that sets the l d r's consults is the planning commission and the city council so we simply have to abide by all the r s as they exist now so if you have comments that help it's helpful if you keep your comments to things that we have and so then when we get into public comment because we had extensive unlimited public comment last time we're going to limit public comment to two minutes per person this time and we're going to ask that if you have something to say that's already been said and stronger into this article and other papers you forgot ten issues that have been covered so if you have one of these comments to pete simply say wetlands meaning to traffic me to i'm also concerned about wildlife so because we heard a lot about the last time so we don't need to hear about them when they have been there on the record in sketch plan again you can come back and make the same comments there more extensively to get them on the record so you know just dad and if you don't have the opportunity to speak or don't want to speak tonight or think of something that you didn't say we read every single letter that comes to us we will honestly do it every single one of us so please feel free to submit comments in writing in addition to working and didn't get instead of very good so so the project the project site is seventy two acres but it actually involves the current number of units of poles a total of one hundred thirty four and a half acres because we need to purchase we look at the total development and you can see that yes we are developing all our units but we are creating and preserving a lot of open space in fact of the hundred thirty four and a half acres that are involved that will end up with ninety four opening or seventy percent of the project will be dedicated open space that will contribute to the open space plan itself around ten only approximate thirty percent of the par included no that would include so when you add the comparisons together the hundred it comes up one hundred thirty four and a half acres of seventy percent or seventy percent or ninety four of the acres well and  this is how the density is moved from one area to another ok continue that's really all we have just a few minor changes right great so i will read ok we understand what you're saying you're just like become an despite your bad self service i see what you're saying mark and i agree it connecting the green space in the west yes he likes the sounds connection from the green space here all the way through it street is there's just no way to get to dorset no we're talking we're talking with the state and the army corps in order to get this wetland crossing approved but that would basically just take us to this property line and we don't control either of these two properties at this point time we have no way to get across and no connection to the south you know correct you know correction to the south you know r this is not a binding form of the skit this is a sketch plan but let's get a sense of the board do we agree or disagree that waiver should  from ten feet to five feet is ok or bad i personally would like to see more space set back because it will create more of a village feel more of a neighborhood feel which is the purpose of who can type sprawl development and so on but i am a fan and then the other  it's so those comments have already been made and so it would be a waste of our time all of our time to restate that ten minutes that some people took the eight minutes that other people too body is a judicial body we hear the evidence and sketch plans it's non binding and so we hear evidence and once we've heard that wildlife is a concern we agreed you many of pesticides safety traffic pollutants changing the character of the neighborhood the fabric of south growing to so to your point if you would like to take two minutes and say that again i can't stop you but i would request that those points have already been made and we will have if the application goes forward we will have to enter in final plat at which you can say those again so please raise your hand again to find yourself and come up to the m reason we moved is because he was ruined new jersey and every little piece of land that could be developed was developed and just not really a lot of is not a great place to live and so i have that perspective to bring in i guess i just kind of urge you as you consider this application i know you should consider already a few of the points that dan self made in his letter but if i can take some of my two minutes just to repeat them so dan points out that  are discretionary you don't have to provide all the density that it can bring and i just urge you to exercise that discretion in a way which preserves the character of this neighborhood and preserves addresses all the issues that i know that you just went through quickly so that so that south burlington doesn't doesn't become new jersey honestly it breaks my heart having just moved here and seeing this right next door broke my kid's heart when they when they heard about it and if i can just make an emotional plea to exercise discretion in a way which preserve the character as much as possible i was nominated to go through this letter on behalf of our attorney who couldn't be here tonight but i think you address the open point so i  now put my clock here so i don't waste my time or yours a lot of the things that were discussed tonight that we were asked not to repeat are critical to me and i think very important to the community i spoke to my father today and he reminded me of the town talking to be dissolved the house i grew up in the property value increased and increased as a community grew and then stop play today it's worth what it was fifteen years ago who's going to want to buy a twenty five year old house when every house in south bronx is twenty five years old or thirty or forty or fifty what you're doing to the community is not the surface to us it's not helping us building everything just because you can and they're not going to keep going up in value that the just knocks and i've seen you matt i know what side you're on and what you i feel like the d r p it's protocol in that period period i don't think that you're doing it in a bad way or i think you doing it that way i don't think you're doing or maliciously if i think this is what you believe and i'm telling you the key meet does not agree been to a d r be meeting this is all new i'm trying to educate myself and what surprised me was when you said you're in the wrong meeting you're in the wrong room to everybody and i thought oh i really don't understand this process so i've been reading the plan and trying to do all of these things and relying on a lawyer who knows more and i'd like to go back to latter on page two the third paragraph just so that you could tell me if that is your understanding as he has presented it to his clients which is when he says that l d r nine point one three c one two which provides that if certain criteria are met the d r b may approve all or a portion of an applicant's requested t d r based density in other words the d r b may not must not not should but may approve all some or none of the requested t d r density increase is he correct may is an output so if a property for a variety of reasons is there's all sorts of things that regulate the development or property the presence of wetlands the maximum height of buildings the types of buildings etc etc where are the requirements for for open space streets all those kinds of things where those things lead to a property having a certain total number of dwelling units then that is the number of t d r s that the board transfers that is not automatically necessarily always the absolute maximum i don't believe in this case for instance the african is even seeking the maximum so that's where the may is the board has interpreted that as being that's an output of all of the standards that determine the  appropriateness for housing and or other development on a particular site but it's not a discretionary decision of it's own it's an output of all the other standards that come through but i do confirm that in the l d r as it says the development of the board may approve repudiate application nine thirteenth's one yes may approve a puti application and in section two if the conditions of ninety nine for three r b has some discretion here been when you said you're in the wrong room there's nothing we can do sort of our hands are tied we just we listen to staff's interpretation or explanation of the l d r s and that's it but it sounds like there's a range it could be one point two units or if you do the offsets it could be four units it could be up to eight but there is discretion is there not are  so to defend my fellow board member frank was not here who made that comment perhaps that was a bit too abrupt what he meant was i think what frank meant was was talking about whether or not you can have development here or not have development here that's decided by the political mission in the land development regulations what we're doing here is trying to determine whether or not that can fit whether more densities of the purchase of t d yours makes sense in this location right we cannot deny development because the land development regulations allow for it right so what we're trying to do quantity and what we're trying to do is get the best possible project approved if it can be approved right but this is just sketch so what happens after sketches we provide feedback to the applicant the applicant can take that feedback not just from us but from all of you because this is if beginning of the process here for us they're getting feedback from us they're getting feedback from you they have to then go back to the books before they come up with the preliminary plat and come up with the design that they're going to propose ways they'll be under oath and they have to explain exactly what they're going to do if we approve that if it goes to final plat then you have the opportunity as has happened in other developments in south burlington norcross vermont which you have the opportunity to  object to our decision whatever that decision is as the applicant has the opportunity to object to our decision in environmental court and that can go to supreme court there are several stages in the process we're just in the beginning here affordable housing the developers are focusing on more expensive housing in rural areas more profitable and they don't make a lot of money when they sell affordable housing so it's contrary to the city plan the city plan is in conflict with us so we recommend that all development until the city plan gets reviewed should cease and they should review the plan because the plan is out of whack right now ok that's number one ok who is running this town sounds like the developers are running this town not the people not the homeowners i can assure you if you had to vote the homeowners versus the  people that are trying to develop this town fill all the land up with houses and pack i'm in they would lose they're not the town is not representing what the people want in this town they want to preserve development with nature and they're filling all the the remaining land that's available in south burlington with as many houses they can put in and everybody seems to be going along with it like it's no big deal ok traffic is a big town homes and schoolhouse villa how they're going to get out of their driveway during rush hour ok and then you can have to have a traffic light and you're going to have cars packed up there trying to get on doors from old farm road and the other way and spirit street which is already hard a lot of traffic you have people trying to get out there so what's going to happen we talked about this all the side streets all the shortcuts all the residential communities pinnacle they'll four sisters are going to be short cuts so cars are going to want to get in line to get on who's going to get killed who's going to get hurt is that when we finally recognizes traffic problems you have to wait till something happens there's definitely to be a traffic problem with all those cars pouring out known for a road and i should not be ignored by the planning commission smaller and i believe it was planning and zoning that encouraged it to him to enlarge so i only point out that it can be smaller and the developers actually brought something smaller and i'd appreciate it being smaller old schoolhouse road i want to just focus and not on the whole scale of this project but really scale ability in terms of sensibility and rationality and particularly what struck me about this proposal was the four big structures along no wind farm and i don't think i understand quite yet how big those structures are how many units i heard three four to five units in each structure so sixteen to twenty units that little spit of land is in the flood plain next to the wetland i don't know how you're going to build those structures i don't know if they have basements i don't know if you're going to bring in extra feel i can tell you this they're going to cash shadows on no wind farm and it's going to be it's going to be really an interesting transition for people whether it's bikers runners or people even cars be coming down one farm and besides seeing the two roads coming into no one firm but to see these structures within fifteen feet of the road right away is that it's like it doesn't make any sense so what i'd like t least ask you to consider or you may is really use some sensibility i i witnessed actually just now a discussion about connecting the green spaces with mark and actually i saw some discretion and some nonsense said yes you can do that so you're making some judgments i'm just saying in terms of this little microcosm of this development those are just completely out of whack and it's has struck me i haven't heard anyone on the  you some sense ability other than it's just the number of units we can put on this piece of property it that piece that little piece there just is so it's so out of whack with what what this really should be in terms one farm and i just want to just put that out there to consider that the second piece even as you drive down the butler farm and you have the development in the back is you've got homes hi i'm louise hammond i'm also a client of day access and i've been a resident self appointed for about twenty years and i'm also a member of the south burlington land trust and i'm a land of butter last time i reported about the eighty six eighty four different species of birds fly me to on everything that's been said so far but i wanted to just point out last time i mentioned that there were four hundred and forty homes for sale and shit  county that was the july seventeenth meeting and one hundred and twelve of those homes were in south burlington as of six o'clock today there are now four hundred forty two homes for sale in tuning county down and i spoke with a realtor and she told me they've only sold two properties since march two properties in six months and they're going to build and build and build they have a handful of deposits on others  so you know i'm all for the open spaces i'm not only against this but any development in south burlington because as i mentioned the first time you're changing the feel of this town of south burlington and you know this looks a whole lot different than it did last time i don't know why they didn't put the houses on every spot like it was before just to show that they reduced it by three is not even a big deal you know and yes about the wildlife you cannot build another deer you can't make another bird once you clear all those trees and you pave over all their homes it's extinguished and it's too late it is too late for o'brian farm that's a big mess but it's not too late for this and i think we really need to hear what the residents are saying and yeah on the comprehensive plan they projected eighteen thousand by year two thousand and twenty five and we're already at  thousand seven years early and i know that's just your guideline but it's way off so you know it's it's just a mess because we don't need it there are more homes for sale in south burlington than any other town and the prices can't be two minutes already it's not to never let it praises of the homestead or for sale if you go on realtor dot com or zillow the prices are all being reduced on houses that are for sale  and cindy bernhard i live in the old school house yes to everything else and the other paper i just had a couple quick points first of all i agree with this gentleman over here less would be more i think for all of  us it's crazy that it's gotten to home ever many units it is now would be great if it could be forty fifty if we have to have development forty fifty that are really quality and well sculpt emplaced and just it would make so much more sense what my what peter was talking about with the multifamily units that go along dorset right along mill in farm also in addition to that if you look at the plant the detached detached garage is that go along with that so you've got a lot of that's a lot of buildings to look at in a very small piece of land and it just the aesthetics of that make me my head spin and it would seem like there that whole piece could be rethought particularly about the multifamily units i was here at the last me and i remember the discussion about how wonderful the views would be from this particular development and i think that just from a practical standpoint as you drive down nolan farm if you tried image what it would be like to still see camel's hump over all the rooftops i think that would be a very i  not quite sure that's taken into consideration to this gentleman's point about the two road are going to exit off into no one farm i'm not sure it's a three tenths of a mile four tenths of a mile space that that's in that is a lot of cars coming out you wonder about the back up into the development itself then you think about old school house the traffic that exists now that's going on no wind farm right now it seems to me if you  extrapolate this forward that the quality of the pedestrian's view or experience of going along on farm would be akin to what science which street now yes there's a bike path there while there's a lot of traffic and it's not exactly a quality experience i know i always look forward to getting out of that part of the loop and going back to normal farm because it's quieter thank you very much hi allison just moved here week ago with my husband andrew my family i just want to say that i'm living under boxes and i literally can't believe i packed up my family after twenty years to move to this beautiful state to now have to face this right next to my house it's very disheartening for me as a mother and i'm just very concerned about the safety of my children i'm assuming that there must be a bus stop somewhere i know in farm road where my children are and other people's children of course are going to be waiting for the bus already this winter there was an accident coming from door spear street to dorset coming around the bend by my house a young lady had an icy patch and crashed into our fence so i'm assuming with an increase in traffic there's going to be an increase in danger to children waiting outside on the bus amongst all the other things and makes me very sad i never thought i would see this in vermont and i really hope that you consider all the beautiful space in the wildlife and traffic and safety and children when you make your decision thank you there my name is the me soul ski and i agree with what everyone has agreed with you because i am from bucks county pennsylvania and what they have done to that is a disgrace and i don't think anybody in this room once that to happen here but i came before this board about a year ago and asked why is the density equation different for the southeast quadrant that it includes the wetlands when  relating to density i was told at that meeting that you were going to look into it so i'm curious did you ok so i came and sat here and asked this board and i think paul answered my question why is the density in the southeast quadrant the equation different from from other parts of south burlington and why are wetlands included in that land it's considered part of the density calculation one clarification it's the same rule across the entire city so it does it's the same application throughout the entire city yes as a clarification how are some other communities to calculate it differently but in south burlington whether it's the southeast quadrant or any other part of the city it's part of that calculation and that's been i guess i'm a nation in the rules of the planning commission and the city council but that was supposed to be addressed some answer was supposed to be found at why do include the wetlands my other question about the traffic i know you're not allowed to say traffic but who pays for the study the developer so would i suggest that they pay for it but you select that whoever does the study because obviously if they're paying they're going to get the result that they want so in the other think i think that we can do is we hold the technical review traffic study or any other formal study that's done so i appreciate your comment agree with your comment that due diligence needs to be done the done but if they're paying and they're choosing then if it's not as bad we have every done but so so again the applicant has a traffic study done the board has the authority to have a third independent body review that to confirm for the board's completely independent review as to whether they agree with the concrete how many times have you gone to that third party review most large actually and the other thing is i'm wondering what is your goal is your goal to put a house or a building on every square inch in south burlington would certainly seem so every time you drive down the road there's another thank you very much in response to that the planning commission the comprehensive plan the l d r of maps that have been worked on for decades every five years they're updated there's a lot of citizen bike over there so i am concerned about the traffic but how do you see this ins make their wishes concerns her yeah if you wanted to change the plan change the plan development regulations you would talk to the city council you talk to the planning commission and if you wanted to say no more houses never more never built in south burlington that would be the forum where you would have that you would have other people saying we need more affordable housing or we need more open space and we need more bike paths and the planning commission i used to serve on the planning commission that on a plane filled so i was went through the process of of hearing from and never saw him play commission him but i understand the process of hearing the concerns from the public trying to incorporate that the town plan yet achieve the overall goals of the town so the goal is to build every you know square inch that you can hear is a goal to increase still has a tremendous opportunity to effect change online developing regulations through the planning commission through the city council and if the project that they view doesn't meet the standards that we've set to appeal to the environmental corps or the supreme court very much where do you get the equation changed the planning planning commission  to the point of are we going to put a house on every square inch of south burlington very green spaces in this plan are the areas that are intended to remain open to the city has purchased the development rights among land trust has purchased development rights for many of yakkers here they are waiting for development for developers to come along and purchase them from them because they are cash out of pocket the city is cash out of pocket the first gentleman who was here describing the extinction extinguish of the development rights that means that somebody has to kiss those funds goodbye and it simply rolls into our tax burden and which may be fine for a lot of people here but it's rough on a lot of people who aren't here so the green areas are the areas that are intended to be preserved forever the orange areas are to be developed at four units per acre the brown areas tan brown areas are to be developed at eight units per acre and that little red area is a highly dense residential area as i understand it paul mo selling but we were we doing we're focusing on rural development and we're not on houses that are not but i understand your comment completely but again if you want to focus the southeast quadrant if you want to preserve the southeast quadrant if you don't want any more development of southeast quadr odds i'm wondering how you what criteria you're going to use to decide whether to use your description in favor of the hundreds of people who are opposed to this development this is the three people who are sitting here what criteria will you use to decide how to use your discretion so paul described it earlier in michael i'm sorry area but there is a brown part of the area where they can put eight units per acre and so the plan that they've come forward does meet the criteria for  regulations and they have to meet all of those conditions in there and if they do those are the criteria that we will use to say will we allow this t d r s to be transferred trip and i got out to their part of the country part of our city that we were parking when this is paradise out here and i got to know inform road and i went they can't they aren't really i am assuming and i could be wrong because i don't usually come to these meetings up close they go to city council regularly but dare begin planning commission are new things to me however i am assuming that this is the group that i should hold responsible for that horrible mess it's called the bryan farms and it is absolutely an outrage and you are about to do the same thing here and so i will need that if you're going to do this go back to what he was talking about maybe sixty properties do something about the green space that's nice clean space that's trying to convince us that screamed bass and i would also add a comment because i'm sipping hopefully new committee where the dogs are going to be is there a dog park in there is there a place that they can be away from the wildlife so you don't scare the deer and you don't secure the turkeys in you don't scare the birds and you don't have the neighbors screaming at you about the dogs in their backyard but that's it we've talked about the kids we've talked about the cars we talked about not enough space between houses we also need to talk about the dogs but i called you responsible for o'bryan beg you not to let that happen in this city that i've only been here twenty years but it's home for me and i am in plenty naturally occurring retirement community i'm here and i plan to leave here in maybe twenty years in a box and so i would ask you to not ruin something that i have come to love and to really think about what we've already done with that one project and let us not my name is zero dark president of the south burlington land trust the last lady who spoke was wonderful she said she said it all what i would like is actually requested or maybe since these folks have  mapmakers at their at their just discretion it would be very helpful to me to see an overlay almost like two maps where the transparency or something it could fall down over  that would show me what portions of this are the brown eight units per acre portion or shins are the four per acre portion and which portion is the natural resource kind of an overlay on this so i can just kind of see how this lies on the land and then also indicate that overlay where the stream runs and burned note that our own map revised just two years ago does speak to the fact that there's a five hundred five hundred year flood plain rate down through the middle of this somewhere and that's what i want to know kind of right where it is and also endangered species are noted on our own map revised two years ago so you know that just doesn't bode well in addition to the other things that have been said about wildlife and w i think all of us watched the water spread across this field in other locations this spring when it was so wet course we don't have that condition right now but we did a few months ago thank you encourage open space preservation scenic view and natural resource protection wildlife habitat preservation continued agriculture and well planned residential use in the area the city known as the southeast quadrant of the natural features visual in our character and scenic view syracuse offered in this area have long been recognized as a very special and unique resources in the city and worthy of protection and then you spend the rest of the chapter describing how you have destroyed it it in this document that you have to go by in your first paragraph you're charged with preserving this in a comprehensive plan you can read over and over how we want to preserve our world spaces in the city prepared an open space plan back in two thousand  that talked about preservation of the of the exact area we're talking about developing the people want to develop the people want to preserve it if you took a vote for the people who would vote to preserve the  spaces we've taken surveys in the past the people overwhelmingly say the preservation of our open spaces our book in the top two priorities for our city quality schools is generally number one and preserving both really in an emergency and so it is sad that we have to hire a lawyer right on our behalf to protect what this town should be protecting strongly and i'm not alone i mean it's not like something that each individual of us is coming up with this ideas we do have good arguments embodying arguments that we've put on your hands to make an informed decision in not people that we are as strongly against this  i'm obviously on live all over everything that everyone's repeated again and again and again i mean i've seen a lot of that out there so i have to do a little bit different perspective probably than most people in this room and the reason why is in the early fifty's my parents bought a house on dorset lane which was the little dirt road where the you go into the university  obviously i grew up here and i also worked for the city for forty seven years i have a little bit understanding of what's what's happening to the city and i've seen it firsthand are as lee and you know i i understand they make rules and of people following them it's kind of like the speed limit on the road and i understand that it's a shame on where we're going because you know i think in a very ne in on that point the public it is possible with the help of the board and technical review which is very important to make changes to preliminary sketch plan for example if you look at the golf course originally they proposed building homes next to butler farms and for a variety of reasons one because the neighbors didn't like it too because there's a lot of wetlands there that they were built there so i encourage the public to continue their input with you in a respectful basis and courage to go see make extensive use of technical review because the current plan explained to the planning commission last week because a place like butler farm in a creek village we had the deposit distinction in the negative distinction of being the first strong want to utility in this state and this with climate change going on could become another liability for this city and i'm not saying it is but i'm saying we need to be very careful given what's going on right to change in july this past last month with the hottest low temperature on record eighty degrees i think on july second so you know that's on one hand in the other and our shields myself we live here we walk here all the time it may flood already beyond the five hundred year level so i'm not well it could have been theirs but now it's only that it seems very obvious the city government not even the developer even the whole sixteen homes so it's the city and worth the citizens and  changing the mix of houses that we had so at that point have we hired a hard to do it world to help us go forward with a greater mix of housing so we have more diverse housing types and just single family before seeing another yet another project i am a native from our i was born here i've been raised here i've seen all the changes to our area and i just appeal to your sensibilities in terms of the scale i don't envy the position you are in i don't envy the position that we as neighbors as a walker i came in then like in south b because of the traffic the only quality it's really disheartening o'brian as the woman said it's a travesty that's disgusting to the eyes and so