everybody tonight is tuesday october sixteenth welcome to the foxboro board selectmen meeting i go over the agenda briefly at seven o'clock will start off with citizens input we've asked at seventy five town council mr gilman to come in to talk about the open meeting law with respect to the state of negotiating committee at seven fifteen we have a special guest invensys for boards presentation i should say a public presentation a seven thirty we do have a public hearing an application for the m i a s the massachusetts into law athletic association thank you at seven forty five a second public hearing on a liquor license violation of fusion  five on one of five washington street at eight fifteen another public airing an application for a wine and wal mart restaurant license for asian ginger formerly the friendly's restaurant at seventy central street at eight thirty  we're going to have a discussion on the health care changes by the new legislation that just went through nine o'clock going to have a discussion with the town manager on setting the date for a special time meeting in the warrant closing date nine ten chairmans update and at nine twenty will enter into executive session to discuss real property negotiations and have a few action item lists so when do you want to if anyone is here for citizens input we just ask that you come up to the microphone and introduce yourself a name and address for the record we also are hearing from the public everywhere i go well what is the plan look like they saw at eighteen months ago they haven't seen it since they're wondering what the package is now how we're going to proceed a advisory last year spoke about the of the problem with the surplus funds they didn't want to get into this again if you look at the timeframe from the december eleventh town meeting you won't have bids by the annual town meeting kevin reported dad and general open discussion relative to all of the options and there are many of them you have killed a plan a plan b is the only option eight million and nothing but that isn't really the only option it is not the most  cost effective buy three million and it's not the most space efficient by some twenty two thousand square feet of area when the building the material i'll be giving you as a take off space by space area by area and compares the plants so i'll leave it at this that see evening because i know mark wants to go and listen to the debate we can debate here you know but i'll give you these i hope you will look at the most you have my phone number give me a call i'd be happy just discuss it with you individually or collectively i thank you thank you to anyone else for under citizens input so this is a discussion the board knows on the stadium negotiating ploy that was put together a committee and how it relates to the open meeting law that thanks  discussed with the board and had concerns that we may have questions whether or not during the process we've created a subcommittee which would be subject to the open meeting law and all the other versions applicable to the parties i talked about the issue with with kevin and we thought the safest approach would be to discuss and i would the attorney general to make sure that whatever we did was something that they could conversation it's my recommendation that we do the following that the board rescind your vote creating the committee that the group that was appointed the reason for that is that once you get above it would you get to two or more persons and it's the slug one that's doing the creation of the committee the argument could be made that that union's not having any authority to enter into agreements one can still make the argument that that group is nevertheless a subcommittee we can get to the same place if you were to rescind your vote and a one person as the negotiating person for the time on these issues a person should not be a selectman because a member of the boyd appointed by the board it's your board at the end of the day that has the authority to enter into any agreement if we reach it would not be advisable for the person that you appoint certainly has the power to then that person selects such other members of the time as he needs in order to help the negotiations frankly if it gets to the same place if you appoint and i'm my recommendation as you point to the time manager he understands your wishes i understand your wishes with if we if we format the group that way it will be it will look the same will actually function the same but with that those persons can report back and that won't be a problem that will not be a subcommittee that group will continue not to have the authority to so that's my recommendation that you draft to something if you want to see it that you you rescind your vote that you appoint one person that person should understand what your wishes are and that group that negotiates will not have the authority to enter into agreements will report back to this board will report to the water and sewer commission has their interest report this of the person you appoint and those persons that help them will not be subject to the open negotiate in the open body public body with a company that's private and we just can't talk amongst ourselves so we went in that direction so it's a complicated process and then the fact that the  revised open meeting laws came into effect i think we're we're being asked to look at this because we're being cautious that we don't in the right direction so we don't go too far and then find out that we did something to the detriment of the of the  process and i don't know if we want to vote on this tonight or just take it under advisement billets talk about it with the board because this is not yet another decision that's going to i start to is do an open session on the board completely what's wrong with this whole board being part of the whole process with the public being part of the whole process i don't see anything into there's a point where you start talking about signage or whole real property whatever what's the difference frankly and i don't i mean i understand the frustration in government of of wanting to serve the public interest in the in an open session you know frankly it's been my experience that it's very hard to conduct  under those circumstances i don't i don't know how you can as a board express your our bottom line what you want without doing it in private and it's as simple as that there will come times during negotiations where there will be discussion of what you're willing to accept and what you're not the board needs to and that's just the nature of the beast it's a real problem i get it it's a real problem in government in town government that you so i'm all for having as much in open session nothing that i've suggested preclude you from doing shooting team with the talent you know the town manager at the time strong tommy john what has changed in the laws exactly that i don't know that there has been a change in the law i don't know how that group was constituted and you could very well have just not been challenged on it i just don't i can tell you today the safest way to do it is the way until he had to do it you know simply because you know the challenge as i mean it wasn't so not all of it but much of this board's discussions about what you're going to do can be in open session but the negotiations i'm solves ought to be carried out by you my suggestion is kevin the timi points he knows what you want to do and whatever is appropriate for for public session by this board you can certainly continue to do  that just a question this letter that was written to the attorney general twelfth yes they going to respond in writing well that they will but the person who will be doing that will give us a general response but i that's who i spoke with today and this is in response to my what of my conversation today was a response to that letter yes so what brought all this out who asked this question i did instructed you to but i had a number of board members that had called or written me about if the subcommittee was on the open meeting law and i couldn't answer that question but again i talked actually that meeting were not reason being we weren't treating it as such and so if it was you don't want to negotiate and have a continuing open meeting love violation which then somebody complains about and we all have egg on our face of i got the first question from dick and i started talking we cancel the negotiations tonight at five o'clock until you had a chance a for dick to talk to the a j talk to you have you also you know intrigued by the question but i mean i was definitely concerned about it i think you know part of it is it's not just because a second selection was appointed not to join it it's the approach that's being taken that dictates that and that's what started concerning me  my what i don't quite understand though how having a negotiator who then appoints potentially the same people public body therefore his creation of the team to help him doesn't create a subcommittee because he's not a committee when you do it you are a committee when you appoint persons you're creating a subcommittee that's different so close in our purpose though that what we're doing as it's like i think is close enough to the boards like that it's hard for me to understand the separation between or how this no longer becomes a it's created by a public body it's a subcommittee of the public body when it's created by person who is not a public body it's not a subcommittee you are a committee he  opinions you're going to get an advisory from the a j not exactly written opinion it's general counsel advice but it would also give us some time to think about this because this is the first thing i mean this is new to me and i think i'd just like to be able to think about it i do my best thinking late at night and i don't see any hope in waiting till the next meeting before we make a decision  we don't understand it any more this is just an absurd situation that the a g in the legislature has created for public officials at the local level it was absurd having said that sorry for the editorial comment but i you know i used to understand the open meaning law and i could guide my boyhood i can't guide you in one have to ask a lawyer and he has asked the attorney general you know we have these and crazy hair splitting sorts of opinions to go through this is really exasperating i don't particularly care how we get this effort moving because if you would appoint me or you to point deck if that's what has to happen and that makes sense to you would turn right around and put the same four people together that we currently have appointed two members boies selectman mark in the rain town council myself and no one else and that's that unless we decide collectively we want other experts brought into the to the fray and that will be a collective effort as far as i'm concerned so if that's what it takes to get us moving on the negotiations fine if your boy is comfortable with that fine then let's get it going the end of the day it's so much i feel like it's one nine hundred seventy three and we're in paris and we're talking about the shape of the table instead of talking about how to bring good things to fruition i am still optimistic that we can get a good deal with the craft organization that will benefit the community in a very substantial financial way and will benefit that business entity our biggest corporate partner but we can't get that done if we can't get to the table and get the discussions going right so why don't we and bear in mind we and i'm i hesitate to tell you this but i have to tell you i'm not doing my job we are up against the clock if we wait two weeks to make this decision i'm not saying you got to make it tonight but maybe we need another special meeting because if you don't make this is a solution for two weeks we can't negotiate if we can't go shoot for two weeks later tonight you're going to talk the date for the town meeting i'm presuming from conversations of the department heads and individuals on the board that we're looking at the summer two weeks from now we will be there then into november i'm so thirtieth of october tom meeting would at that point be only five or six or seven weeks away the warrant would have to be ready approximately two weeks after the thirtieth which would give us two weeks the negotiate wait on a second sacking so motion made to rick just to reconsider the vote that was taken the initial vote the way that it was on the twenty other son event so there was a second vote for the two selectman yeah that's ok it was seconded any more discussion it was it would have been in violation of the open meeting license it doesn't look like we have a choice we don't guide them at least and to do that much we don't have a choice motion made second any further discussion i was in favor of five to nothing ca knock something that we're rushing for anybody ourselves for that's something that's going to mean a february a separate tell meaning if we get to that point this is not something that we're going to try and knuckle down now is the time this is not there so with the board agree so let me help you out then for once i get to give you some good news in that case if you're going to have a special in february because my comments earlier were predicated on the reality that mansfield and norton want to know from us if we are in or out of that sewer district in the month of january and mansfield has said clearly if the answer to that question is anything but yes they will go forward without us if you're going to have a time meeting in february then two things happen number one that's close enough to january they're not going to risk not having us and so there's certainly weight and secondly you don't need a town meeting in december is all to really no reason to have a town meeting because this subject matter to you this is what's driving this town meeting all the other one articles potentially none of them justify the calling of a special town meeting except these and the timeliness of these is because of mansfield imposing the requirement that we've got to give them an answer by approaching with general they're having their town government to appropriate their bond for the treatment plan edition you know told them very soon so that's the nature of what's driving all this but we can we to february that's not a problem but you don't need a down this road two years ago where we had a special town meeting i think was in the end of february and it just made it absolutely impossible for us to get ready for the annual town meeting and all the other one articles that came along the agreement that we had with you at that time was that we would not do that again that we would if you're going to a special town meeting it would be in december and then the next town meeting out would be the annual town meeting in may that's what we would ask his water and sewer close to wrapping all this up in a month is going to make the difference i don't see that happening the in a miniscule agreement is characterized as about ninety five ninety six percent there is just very few details l so we're very close to the point where we can say that the terms and conditions creating the district are now pretty much wrapped up the piece that isn't is the financing now mansfield is hopeful that they're going to put the financing into place this month so they have a number of businesses that are telling them if they can't begin to livermore sewerage in three to five years those businesses are already their business planning horizon is already looking out that far and it's only mansfield they will leave the town and these are large businesses i don't want to say who obviously but they're large businesses so mansfield it is being driven to associated with the more towns you bring in but mansfield does not have the luxury of waiting past a certain point i don't know that we should be tied yeah really this is the same discussion we have every six months every year with me and feel that a few weeks is not going to make or break that same old discussion was they say february is not a problem but if you're following the advisory committee and the process that they've been struggling with for the last couple years well i'm trying to answer your question so if you're saying that february doesn't work for that reason and i certainly understand that and the summer is obviously too soon this is just inconceivable that we could get it done  february those a proposal me do this because this topic is a topic of discussion later in the night of the war datta khel sure so let's talk about it talking we have events just coming up but we also have a seven thirty that we need to open and continue it for a little bit  and i think during that if we can continue the discussion on the open meeting law can you stay around until nine o'clock course the board of selectmen acting as a local licensing authority pursuant to mass general law chapter one forty section one hundred one and section one hundred three a in chapter one thirty six section four town of foxborough revised general bylaws article five section six and also stadium rules and regulations will conduct a public hearing on tuesday october sixteenth two thousand and twelve beginning at seven thirty p m in the andrew mallard jr meeting room where he sells street to review the application submitted by m p s l l c for the two thousand and eleven and my high school super bowls all events are proposed for gillette stadium all applications for these events are on file at the office of the selectmen all interested parties are welcome to are and touch talk past our present and most certainly our future so consider for a moment the first day of school everyone putting their best foot forward not so easy for families a bit down on their luck getting assistance through the fire for discretionary funds but just imagine the uplift that came for the children in those families when wearing brand new backpacks so full of age appropriate supplies donation of scientific calculators for students and they collected surplus workable electronics that were converted to cash and donated to the discretionary fund now we had eight teams of students over eight weeks to students learn project planning problem solving and project execution that went so far beyond science those were life lessons it will benefit those students the rest of their days  volunteers of their own era with bright landscaping providing the most of volunteers went down beautified the grounds of the senior center and then they headed out into the community to pre selected homes of retirees are others that had needs maybe it was to remove broken limbs rake the leaves fix up the window boxes but none for went to whatever the need they were they had to do it but hell thoughtful that they of families that they would call a relative to inform them of what they were doing so that somebody wouldn't get concerned that a bunch of people showed up at mom and dad yard instead of doing work and they didn't know what was going on and that project  the leaves continue to fall the birthday in a box the regular birthday wishes program takes care of children and shelters but there are other children living in other safe environments that can accommodate the group activity so they packed birthday boxes for one family all the fixings to bake a cake decorate it all of the decorations table way out table cloth party has candles decorations a b ana and even presents for the child and that family employees throughout the company donated materials to fill all the boxes and the invensys volunteers pack them up and certainly that would be a birthday celebration to be remembered for a long time anxious to explore the world around them the fifth graders are in school quickly signed up for the lunch and then program business lunches stagger lee and fox from and the volunteers made presentations over lunch sex topics as bicycle engineering bridge instructor building communicating around the globe video games and they even get into beekeeping students the most attentive for their questions but the one recurring question was when will you can back and do this again history was well served by this program as well the volunteers brought their talent and their tools into memorial hall went down in the basement of stone basement and literally built a room all enclosed with the ceiling all the wiring in the lights this would provide for the historic a commission very very valuable work space and storage space and that area has since been climate controlled for preservation meanwhile other volunteers rub stay is standing hundreds of pages of the fight for company transmitters in the town archives to make them more assessable to researchers they're filled with stories and company activity people profiles significant but think of what that meant to other volunteers working with scouts working with recreation during the summer who use that and think of the pages in the memory book of those kids who would camp altea much as my generation had  scotland and here we have it again for other generations the relay for life provided an opportunity to celebrate the lives of loved ones who have battled cancer on to the memory of those who lost their life to the disease and raise money for the american cancer society toward a cure members raise seven thousand seven hundred sixty four dollars received the silver team award had a barbecue in the evening and several maintained a vigil through of the night invensys whole reach also included something for the engineers of tomorrow and students who may consider engineering where you can with the high school faculty volunteers to help with the lesson ideas and making presentations of the class subjects included scotians on the engineering related disciplines of the automation field discussion of the overall value of engineering degrees and specific examples of engineering thinking applied to problem solving may be like being a but that class has already graduated several engineering students but no matter what path any of these students would take they share a critical common need and that is managing their credit again the volunteers that forward the credit for life a bright training via role playing in such life decision answer areas as buying a car insurance money alone running an or food clothes they're all going to do it and the list goes on proper financial management will put them on solid ground when first starting out in his training that will help them the rest of their days students interest in science and technology is also encouraged by invensys volunteers partnership of first an organization designed to inspire young people's interest in science and technology in northeastern university's neutron program  to enable him to participate in the end you'll be tone blitz with and for the younger students interested in another branch of science with the help of six laptops donated by invensys students could bit but invensys employees also actively support greater boston food bank donating food and fun sufficient to provide four thousand one hundred eighteen meals support for the invensys branch of the haka mogwai is ongoing and  children's programs in their effort to prevent child abuse so that all the children under ikea will be safe so invensys recognition we have so much to be thankful for unfortunately john eva couldn't be here but he had the u al overall responsibility of bringing the program forward but he served his company well and he's serious community well and much as other industrial leaders of the a but the volunteers who but decided to support her in this program have every reason to feel good about their efforts but we also must make note of the representatives of the various organizations in town departments the teachers and school administrators and members of the business community who are also part of this far reaching effort they made a difference in going tributed so much to our sense of community thank you thank you jackie and as i look history of invensys past and present and that's what you do and you see it every day and these are the people that you work with and it just keeps giving and giving so it's very nice to you know last time i saw you jack it was at the immemorial hollow you took me into the basement  bunch of invensys people doing all the you know the storage also it's you're out in the community and that's i think we're mostly important work happens so i said i was going to say much but if you want to add to this from the board thank you i'm filling in for john and what i can say is you know about half of the company and the employees were were very proud and happy the relationship that we have both with the towel in the community and i think it's a win win  situation we get something back as individuals and as one of the people that volunteered it was one of the most rewarding things i've done in the last couple of years and i was very proud and happy to represent the company and help the community say more than thank you to jack for stepping in and eloquently outlining what you've done what you may not know is this isn't the first time this is in my recent memory this is the third time around that you guys come out at least once a truck twice a year and i know that you're on e bay has made a point of saying that this is going to be sustainable but it's going to be going on for a long time and that you're gonna go back to the folks a company which was always being a huge part of community and that's what you get the building back on and as a resident and as a board director i couldn't be more grateful and especially i've wanted to have them with this myself and i have an employee so anything you do for us is notice is here by given that the board of selectmen will conduct a public hearing on tuesday october sixteenth two thousand and twelve at seven forty five p m in the town hall meeting room forty south street foxboro massachusetts pursuant to its licensing a accordance with massachusetts general laws annotated chapter one thirty eight sections twenty three sixty four and sixty seven and all amendments there to the purpose of the hearing will be to review and discuss information concerning alleged violations of chapter one thirty eight that occurred at the fusion five one zero five washington street washington foxboro massachusetts all interested parties are invited to attend good evening lewis casts for the town you know  on the ice in question that the violation did occur he's willing to take responsibility for the violations i went along with him the child's policy on fine progressive punishment and he has no prior record planned event i can summarize the reports for you if you'd like to hear what happened before we do that though we have another public hearing that we extended first round if you can stick around oh i'm sorry i conclude approximately nine p m with six football games during the days of the twelve different communities that will come in and out of foxboro during the day as made attendance is roughly seventeen thousand five hundred there is tailgating permitted on the on the day the parking lots would open at eight am so an hour before the first game and i would would close no later than two hours after the last game but typically that's not an issue after that last game people leary was was appreciative of the efforts over the years to separate the the individuals i believe chief at feel that we would be operating under a level two operation this is the last one and this is the last correct your guess on is that it's a contract that you know it is a great three year agreement so this is the last of this this third year which is the sixth year of the overall relationship now we can go back to the fusion because i'm forty five hearing that was open for fusion five it's like two days but my understanding of excessive meant is when you get before the board you realize look i did something wrong and i'm in trouble i'm not going to do it again so i will be before the board again that we consider that we a three day suspension but we consider it the third that's is that i wouldn't i wouldn't do that but i got five i think  the record for an establishment which has in the past operated for years and been had no problems whatsoever so what we're hoping to do is to get this offense on the record now if you were to determine these are three offenses first of all separate offenses suit and i'm not trying to talk you out of doing a full blown hearing but you would have to go through it tonight and you're probably looking at three four five hours probably continuous on another date so what do i think counsel i recommending is that you have a voluntary admission of a first offense by a business has been very clean and that hopefully they are going to learn your lesson and they will not be before you again also i think you have seen boys do this in the past up on the wrong end or something else that would think about is putting on a day shift so it's not something that she's you know there at time you know when i look at the sanctions for violations that we have certainly the two you know we have in our rigs that for the purpose of counting a violation if it is found that multiple violations occurred within a single business that would be counted as a single violation so it's along the lines of what we have in our ranks and with it being the high end you know how you end of year for the first violation i the low end of the second violation is what the three days is so i think it's a decent compromise just my suggestion just i'm just trying to go by history and we take it pretty seriously here it's obvious and you know i have to tell you i was just wondering if you've taken advantage of some of that the courses that just chief has put on you know i'm not saying you know you probably get a good idea about that of the woman that but she's killers like that even during the day i certainly don't want someone to be walking out you know driving out our new one when we have a lot of traffic out there either so i would suggest that you take advantage of some of the programs that the chief has for all your employees and just going back to history we've had i was what i want and i'm not bringing that up and i and i understand but i just don't want to set a precedence either and i believe that we may have already so i just want to you know i don't know about three days i you know i you know their first offense and if and they threw it back in my face and and challenge that and didn't agree to that and i'm now we have this little consumer this client that saying you know i'll take the three days right after that i just it's admirable to say the least and that should be noted in our discussion i think it's a night and very also but the other thing it doesn't cause precedence and i was because we did not come up with this this was brought to because he's never been before you before ok i guess the temptation here is say well look there are really two events or so it's a second offense the problem with that is he he hasn't been before you and received a warning or receive first offense because it's too about it's ok it has anything like this had to happened in the past where two consecutive days there's been two separate offenses i've seen this happen hundreds of times in other places i haven't been there long enough to see that yeah officers came in and she put it on the bar not knowing that she probably had just done the right out so you know there is no no alcohol on the bar after hours but that the second day there was there was nobody inside of the bar when the police officers came  it just so happened that once you pull that out of the ice you put it on top of them and obviously when they come in to feel it's very cold because it was on ice the whole you know probably for now i said to get you to a hearing stage but when making food police would have testified to it looked in the window and they as chairman just to make it clear sir if the board chose to treat this is three separate offenses would most assuredly do them so if the board decides to give you a break i wouldn't be here before the board trying to do the testimony in terms to say that there isn't guilt that is the whole point of giving you a break it made it be done with it and if the board decides this is appropriate and frankly the board has given you a break based on a good past record that's the point fact in one discussion what does does this mean also now all the time that's exactly how this was how this occurred on two separate nights very closely apart by the way they're weak about you know discussion from the board anyone from the audience  to accept the plea by the defensive as go right to second violation level so the first violation says a letter of reprimand and or suspension up to three days or both so the letter of reprimand is not needed no letter reprimand would suspension of the twelve thirteenth or fourteenth of november of two thousand and twelve think the citizens of the community you know the board is very appreciative the fact that our offices are being extremely vigilant on these little licenses and as the board knows there are number of additional violation hearings that are pending before you in the next few weeks and so they're doing the job for the public out there and they deserve a pat on the back for the good work well said thank you fifteen right in that public airing for the application for  for the board of selectmen of the town of foxborough acting as the local licensing authority pursuant to mass general lodge after one thirty eight will conduct a public hearing on tuesday october sixteenth two thousand and twelve at eight fifteen p in the town hall meeting room forty south street foxboro massachusetts on application for a new annual wine in malt restaurant license for asian ginger incorporated doing business says asian ginger seventy central st massachusetts photo three five manager leisure one chen the premises approximately two thousand one hundred square feet of floor space kitchen and dining area front entrance rear exit from kitchen and exit leading from the dining area all interested persons are invited to attend the hearing so again i would probably suggest that she gets with the chief of police he does these classes that so that you can see if  be giving you a false idea that's kind of want to get into i just want to be sure that you don't serve somebody that is not of age or over so obviously over serve some time but i don't think that is the possibility i so you just saw how obviously we take this very seriously and this town and you know that the gentleman before you just gave up his license for three days so he's going to lose that income for three days and you know november is a pretty busy busy month people love to give all the after you know shopping and things sell we do take it pretty serious so it's something you want to you know keep on and keep your employees on to make sure that that's you know i noticed the safe serve in the tips training in the packet so i'm sure that you understand what our expectation is and again going linda all  public safety is our number one priority and we make sure there's never any over serving or false i d s getting past you i know it's getting more and more difficult  just be very careful if the board grant you this i strongly urge you to be very young kids do try to go to the asian restaurants more than others that the layout of the of the building or tables with chairs around it so you go in there to eat there's no bar set up so someone would come in just to sit and have a drink without food since if i was to come in there and just want to drink instead of the bar i don't see a bar at the on the floor plan there's a sushi just so nice to see by now but you don't cater to patrons coming in there just for a drink there would be dinner or lunch yeah although there are certain steps that must be taken you're going to i'm going to do you have been briefed on a separate night on what all those are tonight comes the decision do you want to in fact take that step the chairman shop steward president whatever title of all eight or nine i'm sorry of the municipal and school labor unions have been notified and i know some of them are here looking into the audience counsel is here to answer any questions at the board may have concerning technicalities of the law and what the process is lou is here from my our insurance collaborative to answer what the changes are in health insurance he's got some exhibits and we don't have to go through the mad and nauseum because they're on that many changes but this is an opportunity for the board to fully understand this and for the members of the bargaining units to ask you questions or state their concerns make their comment whatever they like so it's really a matter of what the board's pleasure is in terms of what you'd like may be one counsel to just give you a quick overview or something i don't know anyone doesn't object from the board i think it's probably appropriate we have a few minutes and we've heard it before little sure but yesterday freshness and so the people here think that's a good idea this allows you to make changes to health insurance following a very nontraditional model typically you would have to go through traditional bargaining and to the public sector bargain while this is a this is a more of a process than it is traditional by getting there was a bargain incompetent to do it but at the end of the process it's really the town's decision as to what they want to do you're at the very early stages in that in order to take advantage of the process and get involved in the process you have to take a vote to adopt the process and that's what's before you this evening following that the next knows where to go out to your insurance advisory committee which is made up of representatives of you different labor unions town schools etc all of this dave in terms of cost implications cost savings premiums savings changes in the insurance plans would all be so would all be shared with that insurance advisory committee over a ten day period would be a meeting to discuss those changes ultimately what it means for employees is that they can expect to see their co pays and deductibles be increased but only to the level of the general insurance commission plans the so called g i c that's as far as you can go and the benefit to employees besides resulting in either premium savings out right or of premium growth you're obligated to establish a mitigation fund that's made up of twenty five percent of the total savings and one of the one of the things that you do have to buy a get in is how the employees would like to see that money made available to employees it essentially it is their money and how with whether it's going to be to offset co pays to establish health savings account whatever that's a process that takes place in the in this in this buying process at all takes place with something called the public employee committee which is made up of representatives of all unions the public employee committee acts based on a weighted vote so it's proportional to how many members of the union are involved probably here and quatro is in most communities your largest union is probably a teacher union the process unlike traditional bargaining it's the statute requires it to take place so i'm a very quick period of time you are shooting here to make really in a nutshell so tonight you're just voting to say we want to adopt that process and start down that path the unions have been given notice that tonight's the vote and and here to witness the vote comment it will open up if there's anyone from the public that has a comment or direction towards the board before i make that decision of going on with health insurance over the past few years but i just wanted to kind of give up a stark a perspective of where how we got to where we are today with respect to the town employees and i will have to cooperate make some changes  back in two thousand and eleven i was actually two thousand and ten when we made the initial switch to my a plan and these figures are right from group benefit strategies sheets the town's consultant provided to us that initial switch to the maya plan the town resulted in a four hundred three thousand dollars savings for that one particular move the second move was a change in retirees contribution rate which resulted in an estimated one hundred forty thousand dollars savings next change this past year was co pay increases which were agreed to by the unions implemented by the town and her again the group benefits strategy sheet for three hundred forty two thousand dollars savings  a couple unknowns that we have some of you may know and some don't know the town that has been a subscriber to what's the federal government calls the early retiree reinsurance program and as we've been receiving funds for the past several years my understanding and that's good until two thousand and fourteen to help offset costs of the insurance provided to early retirees between the age of fifty five and sixty five what that amount currently the town's taken and i don't know i've heard estimates between forty and fifty thousand dollars another change that the town encouraged employees to make this year was those are old and i believe the p p o plan the blue cross blue choice plan to make the switch to the h m o blue plan which is cheaper thus resulting in more savings to the town conservatively at least by the figures i have in the papers provided to the insurance advisory committee members we're talking a million dollars in savings in the past two years million dollars in savings to the town no savings to the employees absolutely we've seen a decrease in the i guess the rise in the premiums we've also made changes in our co pays has been increasing poco peace and more out of pocket expenses and i guess the question i have tonight and other represent of the committee i've talked with is why do we feel the need that well why does the town feel the need to do this i mean if you saw the headline in the chronicle today it was pretty funny that fox was awash in money all of a sudden  certainly i take that for face value but i the town of easton back in january the selectmen took a vote to not adopt the statute they felt that they could achieve savings through the collective normal collective bargaining process that they currently enjoy with their units they felt the relationship was good enough that any cost savings achieved otherwise could be done through the normal means i guess my question maybe kevin can answer a looking answer is what are the anticipated savings if we miss for the coming  dollars to every employee who wanted to be reimbursed admittedly some police didn't do that but if they wanted to there was no reason for any imported be hopefully affected and that's why we were able because that's we were we said look we don't want to hurt people but we can save a lot of money for the employees in the town and so we did so here the numbers the  we just finished an education program we'll always through this is in the various work places through the health care on my own and blue cross it indicated to the town that ninety six percent of all the expenditures that were made under the point of service plan last year were made in network meaning of all the employees at woodbine at point of service plan they were probably thinking they needed it and they really didn't ninety six percent of that money was wasted so there's a very substantial premium increase between a pos plan a p p o point and an h m o we offer all of them so we did a heavy educational effort and i'm very pleased two thousand and the employees who reenrolled themselves enjoyed a substantial savings of about a quarter of that and that was twenty four families in ten individuals and their total savings would have been a lot of magnitude twenty grand sell that was a lot of money that those employees saved in the town saved as well that's what i call a win win because the employees their coverage and their benefits were changed at all the only thing that loss was the ability to go on a network and sell for fur and frankly since ninety nine percent of all the doctors in the women are in the network unless they want to go see that one percent of doctors that aren't they will pay for something that they didn't need and so the education of was very successful now surreal when when this current change would result in and lou is prepared to take you through the chart which shows what the changes on would result in a savings to the town employees combined of seven hundred five thousand employees savings would be approximately a quarter of that permanently the town savings would be approximately seventy five percent of that permanently but in the first year of the savings an additional twenty five percent or another would fifty fifty goes back to the employees and what i do if the board would opt us is i would sit down with an employee committee that the statute requires and i would say to them how would you like your fifty percent of the savings so we're talking a very large amount of money here and the employees would indicate how  like to do it very common and certainly not the only way we can do it but very common is the set up health reimbursement accounts so that employees that are harmed if you will that have to pay these higher co pays basically don't pay them they get reimbursed and that's that's a way that was seeing across the state most of the cities and towns about one hundred cities in towns that have already done this but a third of the state and the vast majority have set up those h o ses a few have given a premium holiday so the set of employees and you can have back this money in the form of don't pay health insurance but you're going to share for a month so that's a choice the employees make but that's the numbers roughly about three quarters of million and in the initial year that split between the parties the so i can this is been broken down randy was working with lisa and they brought the stone into into it and an enormous amount of detail which we will share with the insurance advisory committee so that they can verify the figures themselves and also tell us how they like this money distribute it and one of the questions i think they've had was  this give us these change in the health regulations if we go into this process does it give us tools to get to the same and point vers not doing this to try to negotiate the way that the unions have been negotiated in the past in other words take advantage of this can we get the same result without doing this you can negotiate this disease changes in which case it being the nature of negotiations you will pay something for the reason the legislature passed this was because the cost of health insurance not just for our employees and i'm one of the employees on it but for all employees that are covered by health insurance through both town city and private sector plans health care costs are spiraling in an astronomical rate i think for them in the process of chapter one fifty t the binding statute made it so difficult to introduce change that the legislature found the rate of change that you could collectively bargain to be impractical with respect to the amount of change you could introduce in order to dampen the effect of the increase was so slow that cities in towns have gone from where fifteen years ago ten eleven percent of our growth budget with health insurance and now are all approaching eight percent that is a not sustainable curve moreover in cities and towns in massachusetts and a few other states it's not like common anymore still offer employee retired employee health insurance on a fifty fifty basis now that's something that is absolutely gone in the private sector it's on heard of government continues to do it and we call it opened and it's a seventy five million dollar liability for us so the legislature seeing that landscape said we're going to have to give cities and towns a more effective and much faster way to reduce the curve in other words the escalation of health care costs so they gave us this tool and what they said was that that is in towns can adopt a plan which is equal to the most heavily enroll g i c group insurance plan of the state workers plan and lots of cities and towns are in a shifting and other we're just taking dollars changing benefits putting it on the backs of employees and saving the town money all the changes that we've introduced to this point have been done on the basis of holding the employees harmless this is a this is of these changes and little can go over them with they are fairly modest they're not dramatic changes i think if the unions would like we can hold employers harmless and we can probably do it with these sorts of savings dollars we could probably do it for quite a few years because the amount we're going to save is probably substantially more than one two or even three years of the car shift to the employees so we can do we can hold most of them harmless who experience these but frankly as one employee i count my blessings that we have a benefit plan that's as rich as this imports public sector health insurance benefit plans are far richer than you'll find in the private sector it's not even a close comparison and i have health insurance for when i retire i look for that someday so i think it's the case that those of us who are covered by these plans have to accept the reality that we have to step up and do a little more in the way of co pays and deductibles in order to keep the very rich benefit structure that we've got and so that's why i recommend this to you and admittedly not in any way hiding that some people are going to be affected by this in terms of paying more money hopefully we can hold them harmless for a while and the last time i was up here before the board we had gone two years without a meeting so that being said and i appreciate kevin's explanation because it goes a long way to me being able to bring this information back to my members you know since i've got notice of the meeting my phone has been ringing off the hook with legitimate concerns from our guys and what's happening now what are they taking away now you know how much more out of pocket am i going to have to pay now one of the biggest concerns with the the benchmark g i c plan is an out of pocket upfront two hundred fifty dollars deductible for individuals and seven hundred fifty dollars for a family plan that's before you go see any dark the and for members of  twenty two i can't really meet with the unions and discuss this until i find out where you're gone so it's kind of you know i'm kind of on the horns of a dilemma who do i talk is worse information information i mean well it is get everybody meeting right now so whatever you say to me is going out so well let me finish the time let me the changes are pretty universally understood by bargaining and assistance is received huge publicity so it's this is not going to be a i don't think it's going to come as a surprise to anybody because everyone understands what the g i c most enroll plan looks like but the dilemma is i can't kind of sit down with the unions and presume you're going to approve this i've got to find out from somebody for it and so i just we decided at the last meeting to come back to you to find out if you're interested in pursuing us i'm very happy to sit with the unions because my normal way of doing business is to be very communicative and with the bargaining units on the town side with whom i've had dealings i think they will tell university i've been extremely can communicative about what's coming and for months now it's you know with the bargaining unit members and they've done it of your own the chamber i've been very upfront with them about what's coming in general terms and so is very good awareness of what's at stake in terms of sitting down and going through it in detail sure i'm happy to do that if that's something the board would like  i just you know when i hear dave said that the insurgents group has met in over a year now that concerns me especially with you know this changes you know we've been thinking of changes in  insurance for a few months now and then some while i think that's what i was reacting to not that i want to just sit without but i think that you owe the group of insurance folks that are a committee are not ok so i mean is that something that you know that the next step in the process and it's required is that kevin sent a notice to the insurance advisory committee for a meeting we might do there's nothing wrong with that necessarily or you voted and then i sit in tell them this is what the board has done and here's the changes whichever way you'd like to do it  it's kind of the you know when i met with you before and discussed this you laid the process out is the next step being to meet with you and so that's what i'm doing now if you would like me to meet with the bargaining units and go through the happy to do that but whatever you'd like whatever your pleasures but this isn't a process that you're creating this is something that this is because this aligned in statute and it's been well publicized and been out there for a while we're implementing something that was set up by somebody else so you're not educating him on this they should already know that based on what's out there well i know that the larger unions in town mass teachers i a f f all know about this because they've all done their own seminars on it i've talked to their representatives they all know what's coming some of the smaller units may not and in fact i talked to the president of custodial unit at the school last week because he's not affiliated with a larger unit and i kind of went through as much as i knew and then i said please come tonight we're going to you know have more information for you and you know so i gave him as much as i had who was able to get this to me this week the comparison chart so some of the smaller units may not be that from what i would have but the larger units this is common knowledge everyone knows this is in play it's already been done in a third of the cities and towns in massachusetts so not a surprise  y discussion from the board games i just always wary of legislation passed down by the state sometimes  opinion to legislators would be more apt to be going after more legislation that would control the cost of health insurance through the companies that handle to use multimillion dollar bonuses to people that are working for these you know companies and it's really not comfortable with this at all right thank you so just wanted to clarify so for this scenario it's reported that there would be a don't think is going to happen then the savings would be smaller than seventy five but it rates went up on september one than the savings would be increased beyond the seventy five by whatever percent rates go up and what's the average of rate of health insurance taken away everything and i understand what you're saying cam and the talent cost co pays but their rate went up when trying to say you rate of the health insurance for the town went up five point five percent that was for the overall my hundred thirty accounts and my advice for when i have a three percent increase indicated we introduced the co pay changes negotiated it held employees harmless and that dropped the to a zero so good no rate increase this year of being brought under control it's hopeful that with the new legislation passed by the governor this year with several months moving towards a global payment type of approach we'll be able to get the providers to agree to a certain rate of increase that they can live with for a certain amount of time so that right now we're all we're all subject to a health care system where providers bill based upon the number of services they can bill they get paid more if they do more if that's the goal wouldn't that it's the season i don't know but we're the first state to try that try to live within a certain global budget the goal by two thousand and thirteen two thousand and fourteen is to cap the rate of increase can you can fund a mitigator and find up to twenty five percent of the total savings you don't have to do twenty five percent but most communities are doing twenty five percent please get twenty five percent of the savings off the top because they pay twenty five percent of the cost of the remaining seventy five percent we save twenty five percent of that has to be put into a mitigation fund which is then used for whatever the employees would like it used for so in essence numbers a little bit different but in essence the first year savings are split fifty fifty for all intensive purposes more or less and then as you go to the second year the tax payers get the full benefit of the seventy five percent savings the employees get the full benefit of the twenty five agree to that one no the unions don't have to agree the committee that has a representative of each union has to agree on how the money the twenty five percent savings gets spent the night first year by majority vote of the committee community member will be representing them unions rights only one union one but they don't have to agree to the we're in it to implement was done in the process but that process that they need to rea they need to agree to it period they don't agree to the change that's that's strictly the board prerogative but when the cat when the savings is calculated the employee committee decides how they want to spend that money and they are the only ones who have that praga and they do it by majority vote one representative of each bargaining unit in the state retirees association assigns a retiree from the town of foxborough who is a retiree rep and i have to meet with them and have this dialogue so basically the bigger family would be affected the most if it's called a increase the biggest fan these affected the most when you say on average because multiple people in the family covered by that the family plan more percentage chance of that one of those children or a spouse right so then if you raised the rate  pass the burden over more of a payment but that's equal across the board so you know i'm saying everybody's rates stay the same family rate would stay the same of those four kids ten kids twelve cause that's correct i mean biggest hit that's why i'm saying if that was a lot of decisive part of why i would vote for this would be if that was to occur because i wouldn't want a logic being hurt more than a small it's just  it's clear mark in the interest of full disclosure i choice not choice i was the employee choice but the whole concept the group insurance is i'm sick this year and i got to use a lot of health insurance and you're not put your pain the same premium so you're helping me out and maybe next year change when you have this money in a minute geisha fund potentially doing exactly the reverse and employees that have to decide instead of taken my share as an employee a family or an individual this year of that savings and everybody gets the exact same amount and it's gone i have to make a conscious decision i'm going to let that money a little bit of which is mine go to other people who need it maybe i need it maybe i don't so that's a decision employees are going to make just saying i'm going is your pay seven hundred fifty thousand dollars and a year that's a thousand dollars be pretax ation toward your family or whatever they're making fifty sixty grand yeah it's a big hit yeah it's  would vote and i don't i would vote in favor of giving it to the families who need it who are going to be adversely affected as long as it's they're so that they're affected as little as possible but again because just because that seems to me the right thing to do when i hear which is sane but again that's a decisions the unions have to make where i've been involved in the process the unions have done a very good job of that because the easiest way to pass up the savings would say everybody gets a two week or a month premium holiday and you know that's easy as everything is done but in most places the unions have come and asked for we want something where they can sustain it for longer that can be directed towards those of feeling that the biggest hit but to be  correct me if i'm wrong the premium is federally deductible if you don't take their premium if you if you take away a month's premium you lost a deduction federally so if you take in the cold of making that co pay or deductible part of an account that can be done on on a on a tax free basis marched out of the doctor but when we say deductible we're not talking tax deduction we're talking deductible from the payment that the insurance plan makes so if an insurance plan would pay x amount of dollars for x amount of things that the doctor will means you're paying seven fifty off the top give you an example let's say for example you walk into the emergency room and you give your name that happens every story seven hundred fifty bucks but a fantasy x rays and suppose in the office under this plan if that's the first service you've had in a plain year and you year is nine of one hundred thirty wonderful years and you're an individual person you pay the first two fifty out of that one thousand dollars bill and then you pay one hundred dollars a doctor for the emergency room and that's all it and that's all you pay for that emergency it is there any way you can set a one to one night one saturday afternoon seminar to explain this through so that when the unions do go and they have to make a choice how they were how they want to deal with it it could be an informed choice i mean so everyone will have information going in to the time when they have to make a decision usually what we do is what the law requires and what everybody else is doing is we meet with the leadership of the union no that doesn't have to be one person we can meet with five there's no practical way for us to meet with a thousand people who get a thousand employees plus we've got retirees there's no way we can do that so we meet with the leadership of the union and i could be two three four five people  and we brief them with the trainers are we give them the changes and then they go and brief their people and they decide how they want what they want to bring back to the committee that's what i'm talking about is before the selectmen make  so that everybody is clear because i want to gild the lily here and need anybody astray but this is all about as employees are going to pay a lot more money potentially for their health insurance in the form of co pays the doctor bills that are going to increase premium is going to go down now there's an if we don't do this then premium will go up well employers will pay more for the twenty five percent sure we will explain this in great detail so everybody knows exactly what it is do not expect an employee to call you and say thank you they are not going to do that they're going to call and are going to tell you why they don't like this obviously so you just you just should understand that we're going to do we will be happy to do that job but it is not going to make your vote any easier because no one is going to say thank you for this now cept maybe the taxpayer when someone calls i can say did you attend the seminar if you didn't attend some and i did you talk to someone who did attend the seminar and the board is like when we'll make a decision on and i'm sure we'll attend a seminar too and also we try to we will make an informed decision it's up to the people to go back to their new unions if i mean if we decide to do this then they can make it or not for a decision on their individual unions i just want every i just want to know that everybody had the opportunity to learn if you learned good you can make an at if we've got to take time to educate and all that stuff but that was given said at the end of the day it's coming back to the table and we have we have time it's not like it's not like i mean we have to september first you know what we actually know you have a budget deal and we will be writing the budget in four weeks i need to know the reason this is coming in now anyway because you said to bring it back tonight b because i have to write a budget in four weeks i have to know if their budgets going to balance or not this is a major part of the budget balancer that's why i'm bringing i said to me was you know what but you know i just need that i'm glad that you brought up that i brought up half an hour ago because earlier i heard the answer was like leave got till july now we're being told by cabin that basically this pot is going to be in the budget so or not maybe we don't have time well the reason i brought it up because that's  have and that's mandated by the process the next step in the process is the insurance advisory committee gets a presentation that explains the city the changes the savings the mitigation all of that is required by the statute  requires a committee to be formed not the insurance advisory committee another committee that secondary but the first is the insurance of agree that right is now is goes to them and now the second the second committee doesn't exist until we send a letter saying you're thinking of doing this then the unions write back to me and they say this is the person who will be on the second committee what are called will the public employee committee follow employee committee as it stands right now i don't have a public employee committee that doesn't yet exist i can go back and talk to the insurers advisory committee and i'm happy to do that but that does not have a representative of every bargaining unit on it it has seven people on it we have nine bargaining units plus retirees and i see only has seven people and frankly attendance has done very poor some people and look at all of them very faithful and very participatory and other unions you know have just not shown any interest i'll bet they'll be very interested when we post this meeting so i will go dialogue with the i see and i would talk to however many other leadership in unions folks would like to dialogue but i'm i'm just going to tell the board so that you understand you are going to get i don't know why anyone in their right mind who's going to be affected by this is going to do anything but call you up and say please don't do this it's going to cost me money i engage right now going back which is fine if you want just ackwards to say let's send it out to the unions to say it's coming vetted out come back to us and they will say ok for the sec now go ahead it just seems like we're going back to go forward since we already had that affects people greatly and doesn't need you know it's my neighbor's most things and he's more than one and an executive session because this is a great effect on people so that's why i was saying you know we had a fifteen minute discussion one night maybe a half anybody got that number yeah it's a small amounts much smaller very very small amount that are projected by the way if it gives you any comfort you can go through the process and you can make the changes to the extent of the so called benchmark plans it gives you the ability to do that if alternately you're wrong comfortable going that far you can go less than that for so to give you the ability and it puts a ceiling where you can you can do that but you can't you don't have the leverage of going that far without adopting this evening and starting that process you always have the ability to back off or frankly if you get in the midst of some discussions at some point time maybe they'll be a that's what i was asking to give you the ability to go to the make the changes to the extent that the benchmark plans have changed and but ultimately at the end of the day you have the ability to do it in your discretion you don't have to do it just give you the ability  to engage the process to change health insurance benefits under mass and a lot there are to be twenty one through twenty three just engage the process so if the process is we do the full extent of what the state legislation allows union and it comes back to is that what we're looking for or are we just looking for having kevin meet with the union reps and then what do we wait for feedback it just seems i don't want to get into a process where it's going to be months and it's you  know i don't know what direction where i think we should go into this because we know that we don't have to go to the full limit that allows the communication to happen we can take our time but it allows us to prepare the budget the well let me put it this way like you know a parent is unlikely that any employee is going to say thank you however there is a three quarter million dollar savings involved in this for the taxpayers it is the case that that three quarter million dollars saving is achieved because employees will pay more for their insurance now again speaking as an employee is it or any of these particularly onerous or overbearing or incredibly costly well if the pens i guess on who you are and how much you make but at the end of the day if you do not contemporize your health plan i e you do not change it all the time and remember the thousands of people have voluntarily enrolled in who are in the g i c the state plan so at the end of the day i would submit to both employers and to you either contemporize the plan i e change the benefits to to at least begin moving in the direction of where the private sectors are or premiums are going to go up astronomically at the end of the day the insurance company's going to get the exact same amount of dollars out of you they're going to get whatever you've been your benefit plan design is time is how much utilization there is plus administration that's how it works so we have a very very benefit rich plans we have extremely benefit which plans anyone will tell you that who understands anything about the industry and the reason is because prior to this law we couldn't bargain for change very effectively we had to do it through one fifty and it doesn't work frankly very well i know we could debate that but in my opinion it doesn't that's why the legislature finally said ok we're going to give you this tool to let you do it unilaterally not in bargaining so we'll talk a little confused about what you want but i will certainly talk to the unions and explain it but i don't think you should hold out any hope that after that explanation the situation's going to change are you going to get even more people calling you is telling i don't like this conversation could end a long time ago if i had read that engage in the process of making plan design changes were ultimately you can dictate doesn't mean you have to dictate them you could have a it does it does require a dialogue with the insurance advisor committee in the public employee during that dialogue often what happens is different approaches are discussed but it ultimately it gives you the ability to dictate the changes to the extent of the g i c plans that's what you're doing here but to get to the i a c and tell them what you have in mind to get to the public employee committee and have that process this is the step to take dow to get that process going now that's clear  i think i need to move it to the next meeting i know we have with full schedule but it's not the public import i wanted so for understanding of the the math involved that i need to get to myself and figure out and  reaching out to sue certain other people to figure out just some advice if you were both just down you're going to lose a year then we just table it well i'm just saying if you vote this down this is to study it further but if you take a vote not to adopt the statute then you may lose the ability effect of next september first to make the changes which are going to save the seven hundred fifty we've ever started health insurance discussions and we've always been accused of i don't want to use the word cues but always you know had to push you know which we're now starting almost a year in advance for the employees for everybody this is a good thing not a bad thing to start this early and if we push it out further then it's this happens again i just want to say we're very fortunate to be able to start the process as soon as possible and i would ask that you would think in terms of that when you're making a decision so under the discussion if we do vote this down it is going to push it back a year if lease is what you say and we're starting early if we want to vote on that motion  if it fails and it is a motion to reconsider and we take a few weeks or a couple meetings that we reach out well if there isn't a consensus on the board to move on this tonight i would suggest to the board the motion be would motion and second be withdrawn to take some time to think about it i had already planned listen i talked today about getting an insurance advisory committee meeting put together but frankly given the poor attendance we've had i needed the catalyst to be able to say to the i d c look this is serious we need you to come we need to pay attention we need a dialogue with you we need to find out what you think of this so i daresay whatever you do tonight when we call in i see meeting we're going to get good attendance because people understand i would stay in play here to go wake up and i saw you decide you need a little more time to think about this too one more time but you know i thought this was settled frankly so you know we've been randy and i have been already we're well into the fiscal fourteen budget and starting to do numbers and this is a gigantic moving piece of that budget so if you defeat this tonight your fiscal fourteen budget just got thrown out of whack to the tune of three quarters of a million dollars folks now i will not go defeat it will probably i will probably take your advice and i do have one question now when you see the last we haven't met very frequently and i grew apart when we met last year was numbers there we all knew this would be coming i did tell my members that something was coming i didn't get the deductible part right and i guess my own personal fear out of this is i know there's that mitigation fund for that first year and that's very admirable but when the money runs out what happens then to those people who are accessing you know the insurance at a higher amount because they're sick of their families second that's my greatest fear we are public employees we have given up the opportunity to go and make our personal fortunes whether people actually make it or not it is debatable to serve the public and that is that sacrifice that we are making financially to serve the public that we always hope that we are benefited in some way shape or form and obviously with increased cost that is deteriorating over time the retirees benefits were taken away and so forth and this is really obviously up to you i don't know how i feel regarding the us in one sense the insurance advisory committee has only advisory really we have no actual authority that we could that whatever we wish it means absolutely nothing the public employee committee at least has some authority to engage in conversation at least all the members would be represented all the associations and unions would be represented to meet with you it really comes down to my opinion is a trust of you as a selectman to listen to the p c if you choose you know if there is a disagreement from the p c directed towards you by engaging in this you have the authority to ignore it that's how i'm understanding this and choose to adopt this fully that's correct ye ok however if you do engage in this then at least you'll hear a representation from all the p c on what the unions feel would be best for everybody we can go back to the c all we want i don't think anything is going to be beneficial to that because it hasn't been at all anyway so you would say you think the best thing for us to do is go ahead and get in that way the new this legislation takes that away from me which is the legislation job and puts it in your hands so really it's coming down to how do you feel about listening to the membership the p c and their of valuations upon what changes should be made that's how i view it well stated my to change the role you were not held to go to the max you're also not held to limited mitigation fund you could you could agree alternately to do a mitigation fund beyond the twenty five percent they can only make you do twenty five percent so you still do have some options open down the line but i think hinting to get you would do well to he's correct on this ultimately if you decide that it's going to be twenty five percent and you're going to go to the max it's your decision yeah you can you can do that but it's a discretionary decision prior model you had no ability to do that you'd be bargaining for months and saxony months over  yet at the end of the day you know that this process is s'posed to be compressed let's cut to the chase let's get the mitigation fund and i know that's not forth yet right but it's a heavily heavily intensive information process no one is going to say i don't understand after this is done because if they don't give you the option that is a break elation that says everything that has to be in the notice and the regulation is a page long so everybody's going to understand it they may not agree with it they certainly a majority but i wouldn't want to play the voted down and then reconsider you might be subject then to someone saying this is not the type of thing that you can reconsider is that you know the statutes designed to say yay or nay engage in the time that we have some control over what we do mandated i mean it's really insurance advisory committee with all the the data laid out and then you have to go to the public employee committee same crisis and there is a negotiation of the public employee committee is how is the mitigation fund to be spent frankly you can negotiate as to whether you want to do the twenty five percent but i think it's pretty apparent that the town going to do the twenty five percent so that's how is that money going to be spent they basically can dictate th  motion was made to engage in the process any more discussion of those in favor of those opposed for the one cares in my view no way listen very close with dad caught personnel that this board or any negotiating committee is going to be ready for december special town meeting  on any kind of amendment or article from the patriot place or hotels or whatever there's just not up time and i've been down sitting here for too many years now to try and think it's go happen it's not going to happen especially of i'm part of it so i think we need to think of us some time if you see no need to go budgetary no if you're feeling there's enough to have a special in december you know i'd rather have her when she want ones then one thirty two to midnight and carried over like we do year ago or the next night or it's up to you they're not all that expensive friday with two or three thousand dollar expenses somewhere in that range to go back to a town meeting so give me also to the business if we can get rid of a lot of the smaller ones to deal more adequately with the one in may that helps when you weren't up in may a lot yeah so i would pose that we do have the town meeting december way that we think about the eleventh set the date well it's really up to you because if you go in the traditional monday then the number of days in december really staff and come up with to say the eleventh seeming like the best date and everybody seemed to agree that was that was a pretty good date it's your regular meeting night so you know  anymore and i would but it did bring up you know and we've talked about this many times i've seen young folks out there that would like to attend a time meeting and seem to not be able to and i know i'm going to you know oh at the sports world this or that for the kids but you know i mean we're pretty well run machine town and i think that if we got mean you know i'm just hearing from the seniors and there are a lot of the voters that you know won't be able to drive at night time or something then well let's try to figure something out so that we can get them out there i do remember those discussions  people but also i mean can't you can you ask your kids to give you a ride to town town meeting can you ask me to donate i know i don't have any kids so sometimes i had parents and i used to i use i think they complain sometimes not the drive it's the late hour right if you if you finish and at midnight you look at the people and physically people just can't stay there late and that's when it's worse for the elderly so you sometimes do do it and i think that's now that all that that whole thing it's now you know the sixteenth of october so you're not going to be able to keep don't want open very long or you're going to have some very unhappy outcome members you know a lot of happy selectman to whatever everybody thought you know right well we've got quite a few worn out of goals and right now they are really up in here and i would be scared to death to try to close in two weeks because i think you'll end up with half the topics that you need on there because we just don't have time to pull together i would say we need at least what i mean you're writing a lot of these dicks so three nice you know you know i would close it if you can get your publication done by mid no mid november and know that the warrant closing day is the deadline for citizens petitions that's all it is but it's you're not our day is not bind you from putting something in the one the practical closing date which always occurs after the literal one is what is the appetite of the advisory committee for how much time they reasonably need and with thanksgiving week in there and a report that has to be delivered to  prior but we know that very often the report to his prayer is not one hundred percent of war not a goal think only ever is but we'd like to get as many as we can you know you're probably one week into october would be a fair compromise you know they've the friday of the first week of october november i mean of them so i don't get as many years back and it gives us three weeks to pull together whatever we got and what we got we got you know i mean i'm was don't even say hold a space because if you go the first week in november what that means is the next meeting i'm putting a complete warrant in front of you now that means you probably want to time for you know that the topic  that night to get a post that the next day it's got to go to the i've come right out here you know i can't because i've got an endless number of articles that i know perfectly well i'm not going to be ready and so i can give you this giant you know you can appease everybody so that's why i try not to anymore you just going to give it people don't have the articles ready i mean every year say to people kind of all want to get a clear road approved by the town you know if you just missed your quota  also i mean all due respect to the outcome we were meeting every single week because we got all the liquor violation right and we've got a full agenda i'm sure something's going to give so we're going to have to give a push back to all the other stuff that we have on here so it's going to be is how do we get the information out to the public to say the meeting is called the war datta khel process is closed on if it's october thirtieth it basically goes out by the camera there is time one process well we don't have many citizens articles i believe the process that another town uses to notify the citizens including the board members of warren articles over things is prudent at the very least this needs to be a better communication it's working well put in the calling hearsay when's the deadline i mean that's pretty unlikely now if i'm just somebody who has some idea of a big idea about it and doesn't take the time i more involved thank goodness with with them got with time never meant and they don't now so they don't even might not know where to look so are it if you have a suggestion we'd like me to put it i'll be happy to i have   to recap you've you've already voted to negotiate that you've done all it's happening here is that we're changing the format of the establishment of the group to do that  on because i've advised you that in bundles of caution that the way we formulated the first place could be subject to violation when you know so are you doing this next is the chair is appointing somebody whether your point will understand where your wishes are it's that simple and you wrote a motion i did the reservation was really about and i left out who you appoint i still am not clear on how this change selection process makes us no longer subject to open ok i'm not sure i just don't feel comfortable that it passes the smell test well because i feel like it's the same process in the same direction going on want after i make the motion and if you want to continue if you don't mind i move to appoint kevin pecos to meet with the group with representatives of the craft or organization cayle from time to time for the purpose of conducting negotiations with the calle said person appoint you shall not have the authority to enter into any agreement with the cat graphical shall periodic report back to the board of selectmen and shall keep the board of and i think anyone that would come in and look at the four people sitting down across the table from craft organization concerned how does that the purpose of the know that's where it came from is in the attorney general won't answer your letter in writing it was said he'll give us a generic advisory opinion but not specific to us do it earlier said that you would take their response and put it on letterhead to the i will do that and i'm not i'm not playing a game you know put it in writing and will do it but it's it's a quandary but one board member  got a couple meetings that we just had that stuff that happened at the school committee last year that everyone's looking at this and going to direction and i think five steps back on the wrong direction right now you're smiling you know but the only reason i'm smiling is because i've had the consul has been sitting here now for four four hours and he's told us the same thing they told us three hours ago is that he's spoken to the a g s office i'm going by what town council is advis has made the motion honestly i don't i hate i just you know what you don't you don't have to always agree but you better trust your journey money comes in yeah that's how i feel just went through a process of several meetings and it was the wrong way to go to that's that's what i'm saying i don't want to make the same mistake twice i think having to go backwards again i think i i still i'm still a strong advocate  now do i see that as necessarily a bad thing here's what i see exactly what dick said earlier we're them having a negotiation this sensitive and a public meeting is impossible because there are things i will not say them  mark in the rain as members of the bargain team we have one session you were told that you would not have heard in a public session most assuredly you know what i'm talking about because it is the nature of business that they will not disclose in public certain things that will harm their business interests in so having a discussion about the things that are on their terms sheet which is a public document and having it in public and having the expectation that you are going to have a full and rich discussion is not a rational thought it cannot happen so i would propose there was an alternative we negotiate in public if we get to a subject matter the public position would be destructive to so you can't very well say we can't go into executive session to protect the public's interest when the people you know go shopping with the people you're protecting it from so there will be no circumstances that i can think of under which you will be able to go into executive session the negotiating committee but there are subjects which can be dealt with either directly by council to their council or by the town manager to their staff i am not constrained by the open meeting law town council is not constrained by the open meeting law moreover he's protected by privilege got counsel privilege so we can have those sensitive conversations of the problem is i don't honestly know how in the heck i can report back to council can report back to an executive session under privilege but he can't report  privilege a topic which is not one of the eight executive session topics so we have quite a dilemma here i guess when i'm telling you i don't have an easy way to fix this for you the a g doesn't have an easy way to fix for you and so it comes down to this either we're going to do it in public with the way we've been doing it with all the warts that that's got  got some advantages because the public knows what we're doing for better or for worse or you want to have the process motion i guess and that's kind of your choice and it's not a it's not an elegant one dick i don't know if i misstated it but i think that this you get into it so i'm not surprised by this i think it's respectfully not that difficult lorraine just concerned that you don't have it in on paper because of how i am viewing this i think as a work around that is my concern and so if the a g s advice advisory was presented to you in paper would you feel safe would you feel better i'll give you my opinion and then at least we'll have the ability to get it started ok if that meets with the board's approval yes then what i would suggest to the board you do we currently have a negotiating session set up for next tuesday night if by tuesday night we either do not have the opinion from the a g or once having received it any of you still have misgivings we will cancel  will communicate with him put it back on the agenda for the thirtieth and you can discuss it again pride of the conduct of any further negotiations just make one of that seem fair to us just one other comment though i mean in terms of feel like it's another piece of the puzzle that cause me concern to begin with that but here's here's how that is a slippery slope so let's say you're discussing local licenses and at that point it becomes a very cumbersome question who are we in whose interest is it for us to not reveal that conversation the people with whom were  probably not in this case is the would be criminal who were trying to change the security to prevent from doing bad things so in that case you probably could go into executive session ironically with the people you negotiating with but different case in point you're having a negotiation and the subject comes up about the sale of real real properties the billboards or something of the the rights to the billboards now in that case the party for you know whose interest that is to not disclose the information to is the people on the other side of the table graph that is asian you can't go into exact recession because you've got can't talk to the very people that you need to keep the information from worked around but if this is what the board wants then we'll just have to accept that difficulty on the other hand if you come down on the side of we want to pretty free hand to be able to keep these negotiations  and confidential until they're ready to come to the board publicly then i think you get the opinion from dickie get the pin from the a g pass this motion that he's described and we rely on the agee's letter that in fact this is not a work around this is in fact their will for how you do it if you want to do it though so there's a motion made that probably has to be amended for the condition of getting in writing or not that committee was subject to the open meeting law town council gave you the opinion that yes it was and so i think first of all undoing that doing away with that committee just because it's subject open meeting last sends a bad message second of all i think the fact that you're going back to the purpose you have yet to look at what the purpose of the open meeting lara steps to protect the citizens of fox bar or any of the towns in the state so that we know the citizens know what's going on the people's business is done publicly in open meetings in front of the people it's extremely troubling to a citizen to hear the town council not the selectmen is coun the town council telling you how to form a new group that is exactly the same but somehow through sleight of hand it's no longer subject to the open meeting law so that you can have your negotiating committee and it's not transparent we the citizens of fox power are entitled to transparency i would encourage strongly to go back reinstate the negotiating committee hold you negotiations or discussions in public under the open meeting law i strongly disagree with the town manager the open meeting law unable is you to discuss negotiating strategies privately in executive session you are in correct ok i believe you can you know i also think you need to understand that you can get an opinion from the attorney general that this new committee somehow passes muster and is not subject to the open meeting law even the attorney first of all the town council second of all the attorney general are not the final arbitrators on what is subject to the open meeting on massachusetts it's the s j c and i can tell you now with one hundred percent certainty that if a sham committee is put together that is the exact same as the negotiating committee will take it all the way up this transparency is this to africa and if there were a way to be transparent with everybody but the craft organization that be great we can't transparency i mean if you say everything in public and the craft organization listens ve minutes go out eventually at the end so it's not like we're information never go out to the public i agree with most of what was just said there except i do agree that these have to be done in executive session some of this has to be done in executive session because of because it's it's it's the nature of it yeah there are going to be public but during the negotiation that has to be executive or we all get around the table and i don't know what happens but my experience the negotiation has to be done smuggled in and brought out to the public i don't know  fact is the first meeting is going to explode and i'm going to be picking up the pieces the boy is going to pick up the pieces what's going to expose the fact that there's two selectman in a meeting that i like mach's idea take you so it's right let's take us right out of it and ha because let's face it we're not in the average time this is not the average issue everybody is hyper sensitized it's because of the cashier i don't think realistically there's any real choice but to resistant and and upset about it so i think it's going to have to be in public and if that means renegotiating his folks here my little bit i don't mind if people are upset about it if they're upset with ours because it's folks and all of the pointed boards are covered by the open meetings law you have paid professional staff either you send the paper fresh and the staff to do this kind of stuff and report back or if you if you're dealing with an issue where you feel strongly that you need to personally be there then you need to do it personally and you can i would take any offense by that we understand that around politics a long time we get it so take possession of it we do  open session it'll be a little bit harder but there's pros and cons to each and frankly some listener of the conversation i think it we have to come down on the side of public disclosure it's not going to be easy but i don't think we can do it any other way really don't not available i'll just let you know to start thinking about another date you'll have to do it at the next meeting and if it is available you want to get it well yeah that's a good idea motion to make it tell meeting at seven thirty pm the eleventh of december at the high school if that is not available then we will make it for the twelfth at seven thirty p m at the high school