committee on natural resources of come to order committee is meeting today for the consideration of fourteen bales the ranking member of my south reached an agreement to dismantle the seventy's measures via the requests they are as follows h r fifty four seventy nine h r four eight eight eight r thirty seven eighty five h r forty one ninety five h r fifty four ninety four h r fifty one fifty two and h r fifty one ninety four unless the ranking member has any opening remarks we will proceed directly to the other bills at hand and pass them recognize a general from new mexico for five minutes for the purpose of explain his bill and commending him for brain is to our attention we've discussed this a number of times personally and i appreciate his leadership on this issue thank you very much mr chairman i introduced the heart  after meeting with several housing directors from new mexico's blows where i learned about the onerous process for securing a long term lease on indian trust land we all know how important homeownership is to healthy communities and the last thing the federal government should do is stand in the way of families ready and willing to buy a house nady families buy a house go through the same process as everyone else they find a house they like they work with their bank to gain approval for a mortgage and they make an offer to the sell but before these families can close on the sale they need approval from the bureau of indian affairs to lease the land that the house is built on that approval can sometimes take between six months and two years and intolerable delay for most buyers and for most lenders the seller is rarely able to wait two years to sell their house banks are often unable to hold a mortgage approval for anywhere near that long i know that there are many families who would prefer to stay and raise their children in the communities  the reservations where their families have lived for generations but instead of move to nearby cities because they want to own a home family shouldn't be forced to make such an important decision based on how many months or years it will take a federal bureaucracy to approve a mortgage on tribal land many tribes are ready have a lease approval process through their tribal government that approves land leases before they're sent to the for those tribes that want the authority and the responsibility for making final leasing decisions at the tribal level the hearth act would give them the option of doing so our nation is home to a vast diversity of tribes and federal policy should really reflect that diversity the hearth act will allow tribes to exercise greater control over their lands and eliminate bureaucratic delays that stand in the way of homeownership in tribal communities i want to thank you mr chairman and to the entire committee for considering this bill today and i want to thank my colleagues for their support thank you  ranking member thank you mr chairman thank you for scheduling h r twenty five twenty three today i am pleased to support this bill to attract private investment in jobs indian reservations by removing onerous red trade tape from tribal surface leasing of their tribal healing lands i understand a gentleman from new mexico introduced this bill in response to a petition from the national american indian housing council while the provisions of the bill are strictly voluntary  nature i firmly believe that tribes which do choose to assume more control over lease their lands will find that the long term rewards outweigh the risk and responsibility of acquiring more autonomy from the bureau of indian affairs having said this is a term i am concerned with the main amendment in the nature of a substitute that was filed and this is not only inconsistent with the goals of the hearth act is not supported by the national american indian housing council the very group that asked this legislation indian long term leasing act that would eliminate the need for secretarial pool or certain leases on indian lands this is similar to authority that currently exists for the navajo nation further the memory requires a secretary to approve travel regulations which must include certain environmental review provisions these provisions are modeled after those contained in travel energy resource agreements and acted as part of the two thousand and five interview policy act they call for the identification and evaluation of environmental effects identification i propose mitigation measures public comment travel responses to public comment travel capability to carry out environmental review process and travel oversight in addition and similar to the two thousand and five energy policy act the substitute would insure a continuation of the united states trust responsibility to indian tribes the federal government however would not be liable to any party for a term  r twenty five twenty three is a bill that will enjoy bipartisan support and create economic economic alk opportunity and jobs in indian country it removes a lot of federal red tape from indian tribes that want to  mineral development but this amendment appears to go in the opposite direction and i fear this bill might i don't not only lose support of members it will remove the incentives that private investors need to do business in country two days ago mr chairman you and i received a letter from the national american indian housing council an organization that works closely with the gentleman from new mexico to introduce this bill h r twenty five twenty three and i ask unanimous consent that that letter be entered into the record the letter states in part and i quote should the committee adopt alternative language to h r twenty five twenty three that would render the hearth back in effective the and i h c and its members would be obliged to withdraw our support of the set of the senate committee approved bill her letter dated july twenty eighth two thousand and ten indicates the council wants this committee to dop with the senate committee has just adopted the n s c for us today is substantially different it imposes new layers of environmental rules on indian tribes is inconsistent with the goals of what the sponsor introduced i understand the n s a s model after the tribal energy resources agreements and that's that's important also called terrorists that were authorized in title five of the energy policy act of two thousand and five the language for the terror is inappropriate to use in this context because indian mineral leasing such as coal mines oil and gas leasing is a totally different bodily body of law the hard fact that the bill we're considering today twenty five twenty three on the other hand governs surface leasing by tribes for a variety of business and private activities everything from housing to stores and businesses so i would hope that my my friend the chairman from west virginia would reconsider his amendment because when you put regulations that deal with mining on surface land that adds to my and from my point of view a whole lot more impediments if you will to to the private simply contrary to what i think the heart it was all about nagin the distinction is between surface and mineral rights and i think that's a very distinct and distinct difference so is that a you'll back my time and i would argue against  them are expressed that there are ready complying with the new language because it's it's it's not really new for them it's just a matter of complied with the regulations that are already in place there have been some tribes that have expressed concerns and i'd be more than willing to continue to work with you on this language as we move for your back my time any other member from the standpoint of moving forward and trying to resolve this in a mutually agreeable way we will not stand in a way with that because the work was terrible and i just i would just mention to i hope that we can get these concerns worked out at this time however i do recognize him for five minutes for the purpose of explaining his bill they mr chairman again i want to thank you for bringing this bill up for consideration today h r forty three forty seven would amend title four of the indian self determination and education assistance act to provide for for negotiations between tribes and the bureau of indian affairs as they see greater control over programs affecting their people the self governance approach was born in the reduce the micro managing of federal tribes tribal programs and allowed tribes to set their own priorities granting a tribal nation the ability to decide how funds will be spent for the benefit of their people as a fundamental principle of respecting tribal sovereignty and self determination and the year two thousand the congress worked with tribal leaders to enact similar reforms for the self governance program at the indian health services  parity between the two titles currently tribes are forced to operate under two different standards the bill i have introduced would align rules to those we applied to i s n two thousand h r forty three forty seven would clarify how tribes may participate and self governance and what funds and programs are eligible for self governance administration the bill what's that uniform rules for negotiate appeal procedures and the  clear payment and audit structures that facilitate travel control and responsibility the bill will not add any federal costs rather way expect it will generate considerable savings as it will streamline federal government oversight and operations tribal leaders have long been seeking this change in law and i am proud of sponsor this legislation to further that effort again i'm grateful to the committee for considering this bill today and i'd like to encourage my colleagues to tribes the department and the congressional staff of both the house and the senate ranking in and the chairman specifically the substitute addresses the major concerns identified by the department when they testified in front of this committee including a negotiated compromise on language related to the construction projects and a compromise allowing tribes to utilize a prudent investment standard and their attempts to stretch each precious dollar it strikes the three nonbeing demonstration projects that were included in the bill as introduced it preserves secretarial discretion as to whether the department will choose to negotiate a nine program it also adds clarifying language to protect environmental and cultural compliance requirements for the department bureaus and it modifies the requirement that the department identify funding shortfalls and their budget request to instead simply direct them to send a report to congress in addition to these changes the amendment as protections for direct service program funding to ensure funding is continued for those tribes who choose not to enter self governance programs most importantly it preserves critical updates needed to bring parity and negotiations between the department and the tribes making the process more in line with title five and at this bipartisan bill has strong support from the tribal community reconsider is laid on the table the next time from consideration is h r four four one six the great age the great ape conservation reauthorization amendments sponsored by the john california mission george miller  to the pending measure at this time however i do recognize him for five minutes explain the purpose of his bill mr miller thank you mr chairman for including this legislation and on today's committee markup agenda as members of this committee know the gra es conservation fund is one of the several multinational national species conservation funds administered by the fish and wildlife service programs focus on the most critically endangered wild species around the world they are cost effective and have been requesting funding for each of these multinational species programs today all of the world's great ape species our closest genetic cousins in the animal kingdom are disappearing at a rapid rate these rare primates are vulnerable to habitat loss poaching for bush illegal logging war another human threat the great conservation program is a key part of the american involvement in many high conflict high poverty parts of the world the fish and wildlife service works with usa conservation organizations in the field local governments and citizens to spur economic development a way that promotes great survival over the last decade projects supported by grants awarded from the great program have provided seed money for critical programs working on preventing infectious disease transmission law enforcement building economic stability conservation education safeguarding habitat and much more as we have heard from witnesses at the subcommittee hearing the great program funding has been directly responsible for service was able to bring twenty million dollars in matching in kind funds the leverage of this program has been very very successful with other entities around the world as dr jane goodall said in her statement in support of the bill the great conservation amendment the legislation would reauthorize the great apes conservation program for another five years with a gradual annual increases in the authorize funding from five point five million and in two thousand and eleven to seven point five million in two thousand and fifteen increasing these authorization levels for this oversubscribed program reflects a demonstrated need to pent up demand in the field these funding levels also build from the aggregate amount that the congress provided in the annual appropriations to fund great apes conservation this is a very very cost effective program as we heard in the hearings before this committee that leverage is the u s investment to bring serious private and international funding into the fields the model that the modest increases in the opposition funding level is appropriate considering the conservation imperative it will allow for multi year grants in addition to the annual grass provided in the project for an effective long term conservation strategy for graves and habitat it creates an excellence in gr conservation award program to recognize individuals and local communities who have protected and conserve the great apes this provision was recommended by the fish and wildlife service to recognize the many wildlife law enforcement officers in africa and asia who go above and beyond the call of duty and several who have made the ultimate sacrifice and have been killed for their efforts and it would require the secretary to convene a panel of experts including experts from foreign states every five years to make recommendations on conservation plan or strategies to ensure this program remains accountable effective and responsible to the highest conservation needs and i would urge my colleagues to support the men in the nature of a substitute for this question on name and any othe authorized at five million dollars a year but under twenty five million dollars over a five year period as introduced in this bill that authorization level goes up to seven and a half million dollars a year thirty two point five million dollars over five years this is simply freezes at twenty five million and five million dollars per year i think in light of where we are fiscally in this country this amendment makes eminently good sense it's it demonstrates albeit a very small small level our concern about the rising the national debt and deficits that we're running every year and i might note that even the even maybe i emphasize even even saying it should be at five million dollars a year and if that if that elicits any of those i'll be happy to be the one to be the be the one to offer this but that's what the memo does is freezes spending at the current levels back my time this is a program that is very successful not only successful in terms of the impact it has had on the preservation and protect the great ape species across the world but it's also been very successful in the amount of private and other monies that have come to the program to be matched to expand the reach of this program we're talking about at the end of the day program a seven and a half million dollars control otherwise that's war that's the economics of these regions but what this program has done is it's establish local areas of protection of habitat and the species themselves  this kind of matching effort i think we're on the right track it tells us that the integrity of the program has been maintained we're putting in an oversight panel to with that with people from the range states levels so that they don't have to try to steal money from other other funds to meet the mandate and the needs of this program so i would hope i appreciate the fiscal situation we're in but let's let's not pretend like the difference between five million and seven and a half million over five years is about that it's about that problem and when these species are gone they are gone you don't get to come back and because we stopped doesn't mean that the war stopped because we stopped doesn't mean the cross border raiding party stopped because we stopped doesn't mean that the poaching stops where these where these local law enforcement and game officials give up their lines i've been out on the front line with those with those individuals i remember seeing around a campfire maybe three thirty four o'clock in the morning and asking them what do you do when you see a poacher and they said we shoot them took my breath away and i said well why do you do that because if they see us they will shoot us and i said why am i sitting around a campfire with these guys but the fact of the matter is that the extent to which they have to go to try to protect these great species that are under threat not from one another not necessarily from nature but from mankind directly assaults whether the elephants or the apes or the big cats the fact of the matter is they're under assault from the human population on this on this planet and this is this is a lifeline that we throw to them and it's been successful and it's oversubscribed and they need increases with all of this excess the trend is going the wrong way for the preservation of the of the great apes i would hope that we would reject this amendment and recognize the need and the success of this program thank you m crisis simply level funding this program for the next five years since it is inception eleven years old the highest amount ever requested for a single fiscal year for the great ape conservation on has been two million it will be efforts to not only level fun of the species conservation laws but to reduce them in the future this is why i introduced a bill that extends the authorization the appropriation for the marines will conservation on for an additional the country by designated a national scenic area it would establish a red rock national scenic area for the purposes of restricting land exchanges involving national forest land within the scenic area and to managing guidelines that limit how restrictive this designation can become are put into the legislation unfortunately this bill is silent on everything but the prohibition of land exchanges as was given in testimony before this committee by some who live down there that this approach has morphed into a tool of illegally facilitated obstruction and delay of infrastructure needs of communities on all kinds of levels and we have precedent for this from coast to coast national scenic areas have been used to inhibit infrastructure development everything is from road construction cutting timber on private property are for a two three as it is currently written basically an open invitation to lawsuits and bureaucratic overreach and hopefully others will be offering amendments here shortly to address certain problems and try and actually make this into a meaningful bill  for the members wish discussion purported purpose of this bill is obviously to bar land within the national forest land in this proposed designated area now obviously putting aside the fact that a forest management plan would essentially already do that i don't know i do not actually oppose this particular objective however whether intentional or not this legislation does create a mechanism for third party individuals or groups to block potential projects through lawsuits so my amendment simply say that nothing in this act creates a private cause of action in any federal state or tribal court not prohibit those types of judicial redress but it does not use this legislation as that potential underlying cause for  roads power lines even operations on private property being overly cautious and there may be a few misguided souls who do i would simply point out that there is one group in arizona the center for biological  obviously i appreciate the gentleman from arizona as acceptance of the last amendment i will be interested to see which microphone you'll be using on this particular amendment mr chairman this amendment ensures the transportation of water projects can be built within the national scene specifically that water and transportation projects can be built within the scenic area currently the bill states that roads can be repaired and maintained but once again is silent on whether new ones can be construct constructed this is a dangerous situation as was brought out in the testimony we had when we had the hearing on this bill city of sedona has a surrounding areas that are basically land blocked by the national forest and there are limited evacuation routes in case of a  catastrophic forest fire that would be there such as the one that forced the evacuation of nearby flagstaff last month taking away the ability to build other roads or new roads and transportation routes under the guise of conservation is wrong for be donated almost all the lands that are targeted for acquisition that are held in private hands are owned by extremely wealthy conservation groups that have deep pockets indeed they are in much better financial shape than the government t tries to fund these national parks national monuments these lands are not in danger of being developed in any way shape or form the park service testified that if acquisition of these lands where the cost would be upwards of ten million dollars which is  property owners instead we have in this amendment that would propose a property owner who wants to sell or trade his land to the national park service from doing so the private owners involved in the current round of additions have been would commemorate the important role of the cult family in the history of heart and across the united states with the invention and production of the work as well as other precision armaments the legislation has broad popular support the  congressional delegation the governor the connecticut commission on culture and tourism and the state trust for historic preservation of all voiced their support it should be noted this bill will have all the secretary of interior to establish a national park service only after several important additions have been met including the acquisition by donations of sufficient land to constitute a manageable park unit at the appropriate time i will offer an amendment in the nature r this is one of the bills that i would very much like to see in acted for two primary reasons one a great deal of respect for the sponsor of this particular bill that i have and second the state of connecticut actually has  point property owned by the federal government i would very much like to see more of connecticut on by the federal government so they have a better understanding of what it's like to have federal land in their states however this has some problems developing with this particular piece of legislation it went through the proper process by having a study done and unfortunately even though we're trying to represent or honor the cult family who made their reputation by the innovations in management manufacturing there is a very little precision in this piece of legislation there are so many unresolved issues that were identified by the park service there where they were unable to conclude that this proposal is at all in fact they couldn't determine which parts of the site would at any stage at minimum or maximum be able to be managed by them for example one would think that being able to go to the factory where the cult arms were made should be a very good plus unfortunately there is no commitment that visitors would ever be permitted internal access into the cult firearms factory building as it currently exists it would be wonderful to visit the historic home of samuel unfortunately it's a private residence going condo that's why the report simply said this park potential park would be problematic this committee has demonstrated its willingness in the past to put the cart before the horse this is a situation this time where no one really knows who owns the car or who owns the horse or if they will ever be connected together i would like nothing more than to see this reality unfortunately if you go through the process we have gone through the process and the park service said this shouldn't the department of interior the technical corrections include referencing the correct department of interior map as well as the national park system instead of service changes direct the secretary of interior to fully review the financial resources various partners involved with the proposed park and ensure adequate funding before the establishment of the park finally authorizes the appropriation of not more than ten million for the establishment of this park  reported to the house of representatives as a manner without objection motion to reconsider is laid on the table next time for consideration is h r fifty three eighty eight and the ought to expand the boundaries of the national for sponsored by the gentleman from new mexico mr central new mexico stretching north to south through the sandia and manzano mountains this national forest demonstrates the value of preserving wild places near urban and suburban areas former senator pete domenici led the effort to create the men's on a mountain hundred seventy seven and the people of central new mexico benefited tremendously from this rugged landscape ever since the manzana wilderness study area is approximately a thousand acres just south east of the city of albuquerque is currently managed by the bureau of land management although it is isolated from all other b l m parcels the deb usa is bordered on two sides by the manzano mountain wilderness which managed which is managed by the forest service and is a logical addition to the wilderness area to allow the area to be managed by one agency as a single wilderness area the men zano is our favorite destination for hunters from the albuquerque area and the surrounding towns and the mountain range is an important part of the rio grande a flyway f migrating birds each spring and fall this wilderness addition will protect an important part of the western slope of the man's autos and preserve this area for future generations hunters and hikers thank you for your consideration of this legislation and i asked the committee support makes changes to respond to concerns from several local land grant communities in new mexico specifically the amendment remove the quest section of the bill including the land acquisition authority and access provision these provisions applied only to the press the sponsor of this bill has asked for more time to work with the constituents to addressing their concerns on these sections however the sub t hire pack animals and retrieve game but that's expensive too expensive for most americans country and like many countries throughout the world has a long history of hunting not just for the privileged few but for the common individual as well and this helps the hunting agree that there are plenty of back country areas where we'll cards are appropriate however i am actually very familiar with the landscape i'm actually one of the few people who's been there because it is so difficult to access one of the only primary trails that is still maintained actually requires you to go up and over the months from the other side to get there there are no trails there is no there are no roads there are no way and it's very steep in a rugged country it is not the kind of country where you could actually use a wheeled cart so i am going to oppose this amendment game retrieval can be done the old fashioned way i bought  constituent from my district ask for wheeled access for game carts in this area simply because they are not something that you can basically use within the area so i would yell back and ask my colleagues  all of the stories when hunters get together about how far they went into the wilderness how big the game was a day shot and how many hours they struggled forty five fifty sixty degree slopes t carry that out this is going to break a bond between fathers and sons and daughters and grand grandfathers and grandmothers about this how tired they were when they got home this is this is a part of american culture that should not be denied i myself carry thompson's boonen crocket up the hill because we couldn't get there we didn't have a wheeled cart it was too steep and i just hate to think that i would lose that story somewhere because they wouldn't know what we were talking about when my granddaughter go out and and hunt as they have they had to carry their antelopes back i just think this is a real salt on on american culture in the grand tradition of stories plenty of experience in education this is the taking out the underpinnings if people know the cards were available then you'll know you just won't have that credibility and this is an important part of that experience  with generally is recognized thank you mr chairman and thank you for your continued leadership on the abandoned mine lands program as you well know the successful implementation of a mail is of the most importance to wyoming and several other states for years the states were shut out by a federal government to maintain to death grip on money that was intended for and owed to the state in two thousand and six a bipartisan buy camera coalition pried loose that grip and the result is meant great things for states and coal miners alike with that in mind i would like to ask the chairman a couple of questions about h r five four seven nine does the legislation river basin and the appalachian basin did indeed come together in two thousand and six to pass landmark zero six amendments and nothing in the pending bill would change that framework with the exception of including the one nine hundred seventy four u m w  pension fund as a recipient of funds not necessary for any other current obligations i think the chairman for that clear articulation of the intended effects of the bill i further asked the chairman if he is committed to opposing any attempts by congress or the administration to five four seven nine as a means to alter the terms of the two thousand and six agreement with regard to either certified  years rising from approximately seven hundred dollars anywhere from one hundred thirty three hundred annually for many of the older fixed income folks will be devastating a particular concern is the lack of in accordance with the chairs prior announcement we do have a roll call vote on the house for a minute so we'll recess until the conclusion of those two votes on the house floor come back here and vote recess committee on natural resources or resume it sitting under the chairs  mr holt mr bishop now any other members not recorded if not corporate board both sides of the out as well as a status for their cooperation and work today and the passage of all the bills that we consider the committee is a