thank you good evening everybody today it is tuesday november thirteenth and welcome to foxborough as board of selectmen meeting i'll go over the agenda briefly starting at seven o'clock we have citizens input at seven o five will give a chairman's update at seven ten we have a scheduled public hearing on the tax classification hearing at seven forty we have a brief discussion about the national grid situation at seven fifty five we have a request for the time user fee waiver for the two thousand and twelve my a football super bowl held at gillette stadium at eight fifteen we have it going to go over the special town meeting warrant review in at nine fifteen we're going to enter into executive session for the purpose of negotiations with non union personnel and then we have seven or eight action items in a couple of things that jumped off quickly the last minute as well so  ok we'll have citizens important second before we get there was one item that kind of slipped by the selectmen last week typically when there's an eagle scout which is a very big deal gets their have a certificate that lorraine would want to present to him would you like to come up so i had the pleasure of attending the eagle scout ceremony for tim smith he did a fantastic project working with mike johns and i'm just going to read the official citation to you because it describes the project this is an official citation from the board of selectmen the board of selectmen on the cation of this eagle court of honor commends timothy smith troop thirty two boy scouts of america in achieving the highest rank of eagle scout recognition is given to timothy smith whose eagle scout project was to ensure that the burial sites of all veterans at the rock hill cemetery in foxboro had been maintained to reflect the respect due those who have served their country we would like to express our sincere appreciation for the hours of time you have spent organizing this endeavor along with the assistance of foxborough as veterans agent michael johns and other volunteers by making sure that all flags and service medallions were placed at each grave site and that it information for each serviceman buried in the it seems like we've been meeting every week an inkling i think we have been meeting every week but there's been a lot of a lot a lot that's been going on in foxboro just a quick note on veterans day i want to give a special thank you to the veterans department and the veterans committee  the veterans and families that came on saturday the volunteers in the scouts led by jack ought to let for their hard work for a very special veterans day it was a powerful tribute and finishing off with reese freshman's from the do little home was very appreciated so if you were able to get out there was a couple hours well worth it thank you for inviting the board of selectmen we enjoyed it another quick veterans day outreach robert kraft of the craft group and the massachusetts rolling thunder who marked the first time in history of a professional sports team that left a seat permanently on occupied in recognition of the many soldiers who are prison and prisoners of war is missing in action so there's a black seat above the stadium south end zone that were remained permanently empty and marked by a plaque recognizing the sacrifices of the p o w am i it was very well done and very meaningful and i thank you for this unprecedented step that happened in foxborough quick note about the elections often when things go well you don't hear anything when things go bad we hear a lot of stuff we didn't hear anything over the elections but i want to say thank you to the town hall staff and especially bob cutler who spent an extraordinary amount of time i think he showed up before five in the morning he was there to well after midnight and we had a lot of people that came you know went very smoothly so again when you don't hear things it's not because things aren't happening but it was very well done hurricane irene just a quick thanks to i keep saying irene sandy still have areas that the may had from last year the for the time people the volunteers the police the fire the veteran's services there's too many to name but there's a lot that happened over the last year from irene and again it was kind of quiet we were less involved because i think the people that grouped up from last year did it did an outstanding job so even though we were you know people probably remember the fact you know when they lost electricity and when they got it back it was a minor inconvenience to some of the other places south of here new jersey new york but again thank you and i think it was a good year to kind of put into practice some of the stuff that we learned from last year so it is getting better and on that note linda do want to meant something about what you're working on last saturday on the common it's operation sandy from mass will be up there nine o'clock to  it's not a situation where you just clean out your closet and give your old clothes because i think in greenland you are going to bring warm coats and things like that if you can just mock them in the bags and now that it's you know a woman size medium or if it's at a child's you know six x or something just so that you know once we're divided and not because of a certain families that are looking for certain things so once we get down they'll be easier for those boats that that receive us stuff so perfect and help and if you want to not all the stores are up and ready down there and some of them we don't have on them but there's a whole list if you want to operation sandy from mass the facebook page has a listing they add this flies everywhere appreciated to quick last items town meeting we have been under sumber eleventh and has been over the last couple years discussions about moving it to a saturday and we just can't move it to a saturday because there's social issues in scheduling issues and it's a town charter issue so there's big steps to move but i spoke to frank's plane axes in the back at some point we like to have him come in and talk to us he's got some good insights some things that he didn't even think about the right after the elections the holidays we'll take a serious look at the pros and cons of moving a town meeting to a saturday big picture so you get some of the senior citizens and people that are not typically able to stay till midnight on a monday night  be fresh fresh and early on a saturday the flip side a lot of people that can make the night can't make the mornings on the weekends with kids and stuff so i think it's a good discussion to have and i put that if it's all right with the board on the agenda right after the holidays  lastly i got one notice in the citizens of puts not turning into you know requests for money and stuff but there was one notice that i was asked to read that kind of makes sense folks who are major football cheerleaders they competed over the last couple weeks and the last competition was saturday in springfield they made it to the big tournaments in florida in the beginning of december i think december third so it's a huge feat for them they all work hard that's the good news the bad news is the  airfare and the accommodations on short notice in the holidays some of the parents are struggling so they asked me if i could just kind of do a little reach out if you want to find more about it check in with the foxboro midget football if you want to send a small donation or a large donation  box for seventy nine foxman foxborough midget football over in the foxboro post office so that's it for my going on and on we have a public hearing schedule so if we can read that into finance director to review property valuations and the total values of all property subject to taxation in each of the four classes of real property as defined by law the board of selectmen will vote on the adoption of a residential factor and then determine within prescribed limits calculated by the department of revenue what percentage of the tax burden is to be borne by each property class the board of assessors chief assessor and the finance director will provide information and data rel relevant to making these policy decisions including the fiscal effect of the available all eternity lives all interested persons are encouraged to attend the hearing and will have the right to provide oral and written comments or suggestions or select in foxboro massachusetts thank you great thank you i just want to briefly review again a purpose so it's very very clear not that it wasn't with the notice but that the purpose of the of the hearing here is to review property evaluations of the property class is subject to subject taxation and to decide whether or not to maintain a split tax rate eliminate the split or modify the split and that would result that results in shifting the burden between residential and business classes of property hence the terminology classification hearing it's that the burden is shifted based on the class of property that's taxed and in the context of that the hearing here is its required annual touchstone along the way to having the town's tax rates set and ultimately approved by the apartment of revenue once the classification decision is made by this board detailed documentation is forward to department of revenue for final review and assuming everything is in order and we've already been told that are and is in order i was looking to receive a quick approval you talk about with decision you might want to make so flipping through the executive summary page one the fiscal thirteen tax levy itself is increasing by one point eight five million or five point zero seven percent and to break down that increase comprised of three components two point three percent or eight hundred thirty six thousand as allowed by prop two and a half is two point three percent because the base includes  exclusion and you can't increase that exclusion so that's what the math works out to two point three percent one point three four percent or four hundred eighty nine thousand is increase in the tax levy related to excluded debt primarily related to the renovation project this is the first year with the debt service you know hits full force it's not the full amount of the first year's library debt service because we've been advertising you know some debt excluded debt as well so but the net increase to date exclude excluded taxes for ninety nine thousand so the total increase on preexisting property is three point six four percent or one point three two million and then we've had a relatively good year as far as new growth taxes added to the levy so that adds another one point four three percent to this increase in the levy or five hundred twenty one thousand and just an important point to make it's some folks made on understand that  the levy is the levy at this one point five million or five percent increase a policy change on tax or a policy decision on tax rate does not change the amount of taxes that are collected on the tax rate policy sixteenth consecutive year however it's important outfox there is no general overrides built into the levy whereas ten out of the area communities have an average additional general ride levy capacity of over four point one million as far as values which is what we're really here to focus on the f y thirteen total taxable property value relatively flat and only increased in total by twenty eight basis points average single residential values including condominiums increased by seventeen basis points average commercial industrial values the primary segment of the business values are essentially they increased by sixty basis points are essentially the same as single family residential  the average single family property value including condominiums increased in f y thirteen by six hundred one dollars to three hundred sixty four point five thousand the average single family property value excluding condos decreased thirteen by eight hundred eighty dollars to three hundred seventy five thousand nine hundred the residential class a property in total seventy four point two three percent of all property value which has been about the average for the prior two years give or take the remaining twenty four twenty five point seven seven a property values associated with business classes commercial industrial personal property over the last three years rez residential property has increased from a low of seventy two point eight percent of the total value or share to seventy four point two three percent down a little bit from last year which is important as we'll discuss in a bit this shift results in the continuing trend of more the tax burden if a single rate falling on residential tax payers than business tax payers over last year the board of selectmen equalize this trend by splitting the tax rate which had the effect of maintaining the prior split of the tax burden the prior split being the revalu twenty ten which is which is a clean year for the town revaluation completed as well as that's when the vast majority of all the new major growth in town from route one just in a green fox for a large major apartment complexes was was captured so that was that for us that's our that's our benchmark year on the tax impact to all residential taxpayers and fiscal thirteen resulting from this three year trend in value shifting away from business tax payers is seventy seven rate itself again this is the decision that the board makes so rather than get into multi scenarios or just not here i'd describe to assuming no split tax rate then the tax rate per thousand in assessed value will increase by seven percent or ninety six cents for residential classes and would decrease by one point one percent for business classes a property over seven hundred basis points assuming a single rate then over the last ten years the tax rate would have increased in total by ninety five cents from thirty nine hundred forty four hundred sixty nine so basically this would be the whole the whole increase for residential assuming the current split was maintained the residential tax rate would increase by sixty five cents as opposed to ninety six fourteen thirty eight and business rate would increase by seventy one cents to fifteen fifty seven in a couple come back to rate for lee as far as the tax bill assuming a single tax rate average single family tax including condominiums would increase by seven point one seven percent or three hundred fifty eight dollars the five thousand and three fifty for every single family tax excluding condos would increase by six point seven four percent to three hundred fifty nine dollars to five thousand and five twenty three the last ten years average residential tax bill would have increased by eight hundred sixteen dollars or one hundred eighty two dollars a year the average commercial tax would decline under the single rate by fifty basis points or one hundred forty seven dollars to twenty four thousand six hundred three the average industrial tax would decline by one point six two percent one hundred fifty five dollars to one thousand nine hundred forty seven and the average personal property tax would increase five  five percent one hundred seventeen dollars to twenty three zero three the reason why is seeing a different movement with personal property a couple things going on there one is there's been uprooting of personal property accounts slightly fewer accounts but we captured significant amount of new growth from particularly from to personal property the biggest to personal property tax payers in town for rise and mass electric so you have what you have going on there is a slightly smaller number of accounts but a big increase in the value from two average sync single family tax including condominiums would increase by four point nine one percent of two hundred forty five dollars the average single family tax or excluding condos would increase by four point four nine two hundred thirty two dollars and the ten year average increase would have been seven hundred three dollars one hundred seventy three hundred seventy dollars the average commercial tax would increase under the maintain the current split by five point three six percent or thirteen hundred thirty one dollars to twenty six thousand and fifty one  average industrial tax would increase by four point two percent of hundred eleven dollars the average person probably tax would increase by eleven point six percent to two hundred fifty five dollars if the if in f y thirteen assuming a single tax rate the top twelve taxpayers would comprise sixteen point two nine percent or six point two three million of the tax levy that's a top twelve the remaining business tax payers will comprise twelve point three three percent or four point seven the tax levy so about  almost eleven million between all of the business tax payers as far as area community comparisons the best day that we have is for fiscal twelve but i think it's important to understand you know how do we look compared to other towns and this is some of the most solid  data that the department revenant compiles which is on what they call want to one class a single family homes excluding condos fox rose fiscal twelve total valuation of one point six billion of single family property is fifteen point three percent less compared to the average of the fifteen area communities that surround us ten of the fifteen towns and higher total valuations of oxborough and it's that's largely a function of the number of parcels we have fewer parcels about sixteen point three percent fewer parcels than the area communities twelve of the fifteen thousand it's a large amount of single family parcels and our average single family valuation of three hundred seventy seven thousand and twelve is thirty five basis points higher than the average of the fifty american news but where it was solidly in the middle same thing with the average single family tax bill of five thousand one seventy four is three point six percent less than the average but again where that's still puts us right squarely in the middle with the surrounding towns nine of the fifteen area communities have adopted a split tax rate residential being lower lower than business in fiscal twelve and the attleboro because they just brought it back last year and they sort of they're waiting back you know slightly less than us but every all the other communities that have it around us have have a shift that shift shifts more to business than in fact we're currently does but everybody's got their own reasons for for doing that as far as shifting the f y thirteen tax burden from residential to business the board has the option what it's like mint has the option annually to maintain the single tax rate or establish a split tax rate cision that you make every year shifts of up to seventeen point three six percent of the tax burden can be approved by the board a couple of examples a small shift of zero point three five percent would reduce the average residential tax bill by seventeen dollars fifty eight cents and increase business tax by ninety seven point four five if the we chose a factor that was chosen last year two point zero eight percent shift which is close approximation what it was last year was a change from  that which shifts one hundred eight one hundred nine dollars away from residential and increase business tax by five hundred seventy one last year was shifted was one hundred two dollars away from residential result in a five hundred forty two dollars increase on average for business classes in the in the in the increases you know go on go on from there and i believe the board in one sense is at this time is this prepared to make a recommendation thank you i thank you randi the board of assesses we met last week and after going over all the information that was submitted to us we have know we came in for the first time in history of foxborough and recommended a split and at the time we recommended a two point zero eight percent split from the tax burden from business to residential this year what we have record what we're going to recommend to you is a smaller split we're going to recommend a one point four two percent split of the splitting the tax burden again from residential to business numbers that you see here this is if the current split was maintained so this would be the two point zero eight percent if we carried that into today and if you could see in the residential column there the average tax would increase four point nine one percent  you go down to commercial and you have a five point three six percent increase industrial four point two eight percent increase and personal property eleven point six six percent increase so again page four is carrying the two point eight percent split into two today if you look on page five this is if you decided that you wanted to go back to a one one split and as you look at this these numbers here you see the residential goes up seven point one percent seven point one seven percent commercial drops point five nine percent industrial drops one point six two percent and personal property that still increases again five point three five percent but i randy explain to why that number is skewed so high and then you go to page six in the stage six is the actual one point four two percent split so you we will again we went back not to reiterate everything randy it's talked about but you go back to the fiscal year two thousand and ten and again that was when we did the  and you know everything was every property was looked at every value was looked at and we you know very comfortable with all the information we had there and that's when we found that there was a huge disparity between the commercial business  values and the residential and we also found out at that time that you know the stated come in prior to that and basically told us that our commercial values were too low so we had to bring some of those up but there was a huge disparity there and that's wh came in and recommended that split so we figured during our meeting that you know to try to keep that burden the same is that what we approved last year was to come down again to that one point four two percent and as you look at the numbers here you see residential that build there would go up five point six four percent commercial go up three point four seven percent industrial up two point four percent personal property will go up nine point six five percent and again if you want to go over to page eight you can see where all those numbers kind of come together and they make sense and you'll see where the tax burden shift is so if you look at page eight again if you look across the columns and you see the the percentage totals of the values there so you have residential for fiscal year two thousand and ten seventy two point eight and then you go over to you know and thirteen you can see you know that the residential is picking up more of the share there but if you bring it back over all the way to the right that the one point four two percent shift comes down to in the middle underneath the shaded bar you see the tax levy lenat limit times the one point four two percent and you see the tax burden shift this is the actual shift from residential over to commercial industrial so if you look right below that you'll see the average residential tax reduction seventy five point three two that is if we didn't go back to if you didn't do a split this year there's a lot of numbers here  that but you know that's really how we came to that all that conclusion we did and again we voted to keep the split rate again this year but we looked at again just trying to keep the parity with the the tax burden shift from last year and just carrying that over into this year so again so would be the one point four two percent that we've recommended obviously you can decide whatever you want to do with that aspect of it ok without using the numbers and percentages and had a brief discussion with you earlier in the week a very layman's term so people can understand it what happened last year with respect to the valuations when going up one going down in what you what the recommendation was last year what you try to achieve just so we have some context to last year and then moving ashore last year again so last year was a revalue evaluation year and i mean twenty ten sorry so when we captured all that new information and it was you know that was really in depth if you understand the revalue there's a company comes and looks at every single piece of property throughout the whole town and they came up with the value that they came up with also it again and at that time we found that if you had carried a one one split the commercial values commercial industrial values dropped significantly as you can imagine in foxboro a common expense approach for commercial and business properties so it's not just what the building was built for it's all about you know in you know income and expenses and as you well know that you know over the last four or five years the values and you know businesses haven't been that great so all of a sudden all those numbers start dropping well you know every time you raise your hand a town meeting if you want to raise money that's that number has to be raised and has to be raised no matter what the values are and so on the businesses dropped would happen in the residential residential now has to capture more of that value so now there was a huge gap there so that's when we brought it down we brought the two point zero percent two point zero eight percent in a kind of level that off a little bit obviously they both went up but you want to had a huge drop in the commercial industrial last year they would have actually got a lower increase in the residential when i got a huge increase it was significant so that's when we came in last year with that split so again so now moving forward as you can see if you decided that you even wanted to go down back to the one once but that's a huge gap again i think it's just it was just looking at feathering it and just keeping that your side before the board gets into the discussion if you would this is a public hearing and over the last really the last couple months we kept mentioning to people if you had input this was coming up  contact the board members is there anyone here tonight that wanted to speak on the split rate versus the nonsupport rate seeing on the open up for the board for discussion  allows us to have a dialogue back and forth under discussion assessed for four hundred five dollars and no appraiser three hundred sixty four thousand is taking a huge lopsided on that i'm sure everybody here knows how much your property values drop it's close to thirty percent in the town forgetable on average a lot of people can't even take advantage of the reef i took a lower interest rates because their values a saw assessed low and they bought at a since it's market driven you have no control that's my love you have to use that market value from that period that's how it is your buddies some day and generally for us so what what and situation of the house but only you know what we do is we don't decide what the value is we have to support what the market's telling us the value is right so i had a statement to us and they say listen here are three comparable again they have to give somewhat less what you would get with an appraisal you have no direct correct if they give us comparable is that show that we would without a doubt look at that and reassess the value there's no question about it but some people come in and you know they have a two the appraisal was thirty thousand dollars higher so it's all relative so i mean it's all relative everybody's on the same but it's all going to go in two years from now are you going to go buy the appraisal yeah but it was the same thing back in two thousand and three four and five when everything shooting skyrocket right we were in two thousand and five looking at values from two thousand and three that was fifty thousand to sixty two year yeah yeah yeah we've had people come in with appraisals and what they'll do is they'll hire appraisal to value their property in their day you know two years ago ok and they'll look at their day in the same thing that honda does you just look at the sales for that calendar year and it has to be a twelve month calendar year we need twelve months of sales so they'll come in with that we have it all the time people come in and i just got my house refinanced my house isn't worth that we can use it because that value is from two calendar years ago so that that's why i want to clarify that that was a question has been asked and you're going to get but it would be based on two years ago that actually goes out in the field consulate she's always out in the field you know doing on site inspections you know somebody can come to the office and ask you know and constantly making appointments going out and reviewing and then comparing to the sales database that that she has in the systems we have that we have to maintain that so so i mean our chief says here does it this is her profession she i think she does a bang up job and in responding to challenges to value we welcome that as a step for want the values to be as tight as possible to make that the equity the burden is equitable as possible and so she was very capable of doing that certainly residential side so basically the audience is a lot of people's questions  kind of specify clear it's not based on today's market so because when people tell me that you probably had just talking about values in foxborough today are slowly climb coming back i don't see  for a lot of people question and it was something that we were going to talk about at the end i think is perfect for this is the all of the the the property information all the cards that we have in the assessor's office is going online by the end of the county and the county yes or so that you will everybody in town now be able to go online and see their property and their neighbor's property because that's not a secret and you can see where your house value is compared to everybody else's and if you see a huge discrepancy you see that you know there's a show and an extra bathroom that you don't have or an extra bedroom and if you have an four bedroom house and you're only being attacked and assessor's office if you want to come in and tell us a that too that's fine too but that's something that's going to really help really tighten up all the values in town because we are aware are there i think where comfortably at the ninety percentile right now with our with with the the abatements that we've got over the last two years and we found some discrepancies and it's all being fixed and it's there the data is very very good now we're very confident to put it out there will probably do is assume the you know we're finally moving out of the stone age here with providing this this information publicly so it probably would look to do a dog and pony you know to show it's very brief and in january and then we would invite people to go online when it's available to look at it and please come in if you have you know to the board assessor's office if you have a question about your value ok for for business classes of property so therefore the burden if you maintain the current split the burden would then be a little bit more disproportionate than the target the board of assesses as a stablish so what they're doing is they're acknowledging the fact that the business values in total have edged up a little bit so with a split tax rate it's appropriate with the same logic that was used last year to feather back the split to acknowledge the increase in the share burden now yes so what what the board has done and they took the liberty of evaluating going back to the zero which we had last year keeping what we have this year is a two point eight differential that we voted last year or in effect splitting it in the middle in lowering to one point four the disparity between the businesses in the in the residential so our options are we could pick a b or c or do none of the above and something can be whatever you want  no split to ship except in and there are a couple of towns i'm not suggesting that are a couple towns actually do that i think that that's shift all the way around it was towns don't have a lot of businesses and indeed actually know it nor does one know which is they go all the way wh wanted if that if the board there's a lot of information here if you didn't get a chance to go through it we could put it off to the next meeting which is we get a full agenda next tuesday but we could come in early for this if you need more time to discussion the message i've been getting is that the commercial property owners i think they took a big hit not only with that with the tax increase but also in the last few years you've been increasing fees you know i mean they've taken a lot of hits plus the economy is not good so and i think when a town and it's always printed in the in the books when the town lissa split tax rate i think that sends a message to prospective businesses that are looking at places to move into and if you have a split rate that does that send a message will you know what maybe they're not as business friendly as this town over here that doesn't have a split taxing so that's my concern and i'm concerned about the the business owners in town who live in  mean the amount of tax revenue coming into the town is not going to change so it's not like we'd be getting more but with a split tax we would be getting less with just a non split tax but i'm concerned about the message and i'm concerned about the hit that the local businesses are taking i think the flipside to that i mean what we saw last year was because the anomaly in the economy you know in the despair in the business is going down relatively quickly in the residential as much as the shift went to the businesses a little bit the spike didn't hit the residential as much and i think if it went the other way you would have heard you would have here heard a loud scream from the residential and taxes one way up so i think we would try to buffer it so in my eyes we either you know if we want to get back to that zero and there's a lot of merit to that i mean because when one drop with the other residents go doing that to the residents is going to take a you know i understand that but we're also we're also becoming known in the area as you can read in the newspapers is that nine friendly non is clear clearly last year when you have debt exclusions for commercial you know the library that possibly the new town hall some turf fields the high school any interest in the school systems they don't have an age i mean maybe public safety courses on property but they have no voice at the table they don't get the vote i love to know what the percentage of people that all probably don't have the voice  and corporations and you know because it's hard to find out as well as you have all the personal property right well i'm just wondering what that is but my point is they don't have a voice at the table i think what you can say mark is that your point is is correct generally the business interests in most communities are not represented in terms of having a voice and a vote on that at times political process proportion at home homeowners basically one hundred percent are eligible to vote whereas some percent of business owners are not and so it's always the case is that this is a there's an inequity there and that's that's a true fact no i don't think we can tell you exactly what the numbers are but i think we can say with a fair degree of precision that all one of businesses don't have a voice and home buyer tax and that's the case and it's not fair that's unfortunate but that's and the value of the town if the value of the town is high the business is high so it's i think you know i think if i make sure and i think the interesting point you make mark is that this community on like a lot of communities i mean let's face it predominantly the businesses don't vote homeowners do so in a lot of communities boards are selecting elected representatives find it very easy politically to transfer that tax burden from homeowners to the businesses and that's  around us i think many many split tax rate because it's an easy decision to make i think it's a wonderful comment about foxborough in particular above the boards of assessors and the board of selectmen who jointly make this decision that you resisted that temptation for many many years and this was the very first year that you have a split the rate you have transferred that type of burden on businesses because i think you correctly adjudged that that's not good business practice is not a good way to make friends in the business community and the only reason we finally did it this year was because the proportion of shift in values that occurred and it was just a logical decision but the fact of the boarders you know the assessors are recommending at least on doing h split that was done last year if not i'm doing it all together and the fact that you're having this debate and making the point you're making i think really shows that this is a politically mature community where we think hard about our partnership with the business of i think again going back to the original reason why this was actually done for the first time and using that as a starting point the easy thing would have been to leave it that way having recognized i guess the commercial values are inching up word in the right direction and making that adjustment shows that it is the town's intent to get back to a single tax rate it's not our intention to take advantage of businesses forever or you know we were trying to avoid a spike in a situation that was going to affect you know seventy five percent of the taxpayers for the town which are the residential tax payers so i think by addressing that spike last year we did the right thing and now coming back towards that neutral place again the board of assessors i feel is recommending the right thing and again you know i think what you said jim to that the businesses do utilize the services of the town so you know i don't feel like there's an inequity there and when you look at the other choices that other towns have made downtown businesses everybody hits in for donations about things so the downtown businesses really do contribute that extra to the community you know so i  mean i really have i really have a hard time put no you know not making it to me just a single tax rate so that it's clear i mean i just especially in these economic times so you guys had a lot of discussion on the going back to the zero differential the fifty fifty you know and as the businesses came up and the tax burden came down but not all the way but that would do the residential you had a lot of discussion on that s have lost to hear us yeah yeah and you thought the reason you didn't recommend that because the residential hit would be well anyways you just look at that right now yeah that's a huge hit for residential and just go from where we were where we are today back know recognize you after we did it last year my thoughts were i think in this because i felt like you know all the other years that i did i always said you know it should be you know you know we shouldn't do that so i listen to you guys i listen to randy about the situation that we are in and made that decision that way and i think that we wouldn't be looking at such a it might be nine o'clock probably i don't remember i know nine years i've been on the border as many ten eleven i don't know you know about him but never ever what i ever thought that i would be sitting in front of you saying we're going to go out there and never never i know my brother didn't talk to me say that we have the protect is of venice and you know that's basically the board of assessors do we just make sure that everybody's got you know pain what you know they're they're supposed to be paying and everything and that's all we really do you just look at the numbers that way you have to take everything out of it from the outside and all the other you know things pushing on you just look at it what's right and what's wrong when you're looking at those numbers and last year was just i think it did make the right decision last year because it was really by our off the board really shouldn't be itself coming online doodle probably two and a half overrides the proportion of shift in values where the homeowner residential is going to take a big adjustment a bigger share it was a situation that cried out to give some relief to the homeowner it just was so i don't think you should feel badly about that it was a logical decision and i think you know it was made with a great deal of consternation and then we talked about it but it was an eminently logical decision now what i think is being said to the board is that market shift is beginning to correct the amount of new taxation coming online due to over rising waters lessening dollars deficit to the operation budget you were talking about you know layoffs and and take the teachers were saying oh we have fifty layoffs of the parents in the p t o and came back to was and then we took this is what was happening in my world ok so maybe it wasn't yours it was mine and then people around town were really past a lot of people really mad at us and i we had to take those a bigger hit i took last year in a lot of things second biggest that's for sure but  know it was a big adjustment for this community and then at the end of the year we had a chance to give back another four hundred three thousand dollars and adjusted back a little bit and we did and we kept the money we want to keep the money and budget so i don't know why it got very confusing at the end and here we are again we have the same conversation and we're projected to have extra income this year on the operating budget in that i'm wrong so to pieces spending you know estimates and ready to estimates all that's i think it's important for the board understand the total amount of taxes we're going to raise i e how many employees we can have how much money we can spend is not affected whatsoever by this decision in front of it and i think of it this way the pie has this big whatever you decide tonight the pie is identically the same size we're going to raise the exact amount of taxes either way the only decision before you tonight is proportionately who pays what part of the of the tax burden does the residential home pay a little more or less and to the extent they pay a little more a little less business personally with what i think we all was too many people and this board was because of that decision wasn't until after the fact when i was caught and there was there was other discussions about you know found money so to  speak things that i think they're too to my recollection and yeah but anyway what i was trying to say was you know we're looking at this as you know the townspeople are going to take this huge hit this year and they're to take this year just because we made that decision last year that's why it looks so much worse than it actually would be if we if we stay you know if we went back right  of think about how much more the residents would have paid if we didn't do that last year so it would have a larger hit last year as much as the you know i'm saying i think that's what she's asking was seven percent this year if they didn't do it last year what would it be that would have to look at that but it was a significant hit last year if you didn't split it last year and i could have been and the average business tax rate was actually going down you know a couple points and the presidential race was hundred dollars per average homeowner converse lee what i'm saying george you shift out i'm getting complaints at the table your voice is just keeps coming up can you just hold it i will recognize you once we finish this discussion anybody  think you know this is reality we're in reality now and again i think you're right here with the way it always been done we walked in to go single right and i was young of the scotch and i think i'm not going to say we blindsided you because i walked into that meeting not realiz was going into that meeting that we were going to single right too but i think what you've set up to move forward i think i think i speak for the board that this works and i think that it's a it gives a better communication you know that you're not  us but i looked at your board and you've got a lot of longevity in a lot of years in a lot of business families so for you guys to say it was a split rate it was a little comfort in that because you would have done it unless it had a lot of merit and i think that's why i think we voted so fast this year i think we have absorbed a year of you know there was some bit angry businesses as you said linda i'm not sure if we haven't heard from many residents to say thank you that they could use the extra hundred dollars that they saved on not sure if people even realize but sitting at this table today the political if you want to call it the ramifications of a business coming in in the treated different in the residential even though it's one hundred dollars it's a huge ripple effect it has a stop businesses you know we just had a huge growth you know forecasts is improving you know in the next couple of years in the other towns are doing it and now the other towns are starting to go back a little bit so i don't think we're doing anything that was not well if there's such thing as an industry standard i think you're being proactive  you might just want to make sure the board has the right number in front of them in terms of what the decision means to the average homeowner but it sounds like in order to gushing looking at you're given on page six from reading this correctly if the board votes to essentially but if we go to the split they're not saving seventy five there is increasing seventy five so i just want the board to have the flavor the percentages sound big but the dollars that we're dealing with for savings one way or the other for the ho the dollars here so if the board decides to undo the whole thing we're not talking massive shift on the homeowner you know that's not the case and i just think it's important to understand the dollars a i thought i heard things said that this is a massive shift to some over seven percent increase in residential taxes on average which adds up to how many dollars for an average homeowner  which is why they're recommending doing roughly half that on doing if you will do it half of what would last for ever with a goal in mind that if the market values continue to go is there going next year you do the same thing and we'll be back to status quo but this is absolutely one of those discussions need to have sorry but i understand the process and you're educating both everybody here the people because part of our job is to educate people wanted what decisions were making that we would have to validate it l closing it i was in favor of motion carries five to zero to close it more discussion i mean educated is different yeah i mean many tech is moving and that's great it's a huge building or that is you know no longer empty you know this is some other stuff on the horizon hopefully that pan out in town and things and i think that would be great you know tightening ever tightening department revenue standards i think you know inspection fifty percent of all property you know after fifty percent have to be visited so it will have yet another you know benchmark year for the town you know where two thousand and like two thousand and ten you know so it's going to be a great litmus test i think to see you know right but you missed along the way what's changed that would you know that we're not seeing that people are coming forward with capturing so you know it will be very interesting to see you know how that shifts things next year with the board consider and i know we don't have the numbers for these i was gone i thought confidence to the businesses that were moving them back in the right direction it's not as much of an increase on the residential it's a little nicer story to say for a business that's coming in that with you know maybe it's a two year so it's it's a fifty two large seventy four percent savings compared to a single rate for the residential on average and then for the business it's two hundred eighty five dollars eighty it's you vote the residential factor and he does the column just to the left of that which is point nine eight nine five eight four you see that one before the fourth line up what line down no not produce a bike it would be this the one point zero four percent in the fact would be point nine eight nine five eight for you would you would know that factor that's what the board sanctioned was actually nine eight six one one t factor of point nine eight nine five eight four with the tax person percent shift at one point zero four percent motion made second ok any more discussion questions all those in favor of those opposed motion carries for does it for the one think you know i don't have that scenario if you just sign but i'll  you know we've had a lot of the special meetings all of last the two songs last year in this year and i got to say i'm pretty confident that foxboro did everything that we could do with respect to the d p w with respect to our  coordination our emergency preparedness but at the end of the day we were standing there with their hands in our pockets waiting for a national grid to fix something in primarily you know some of the stuff was in foxborough the majority was foxborough and it just keeps coming back to the most in the national union loop that the people i'm talking to outside of national grid they used to work for national grid it's an issue and it's not being addressed as quickly as it should be it's into antiquated it's problematic fix us so i asked marcy reed to come tonight and i asked bob russell who is a customer manager in our li on tom kaufman and they respectfully said no and i don't have a problem with them saying no because they were in the middle of a nor'easter that came up and what mars he was saying you know a lot more can get accomplished in a small group to find out what the issues are and move it along rather than in front of the microphones and cameras could people can speak freely off the cameras and that's fine so i don't want to turn it into a well if you don't come we're going to you know beat our chests again and go to the newspaper but at the same time  i do want those meetings to happen i don't want to forget about it because it'll come either again in the winter or next year but is there somebody that wants to sit with marcy in that group and representatives probably kevin  and more chief hatfield from the fire department and ask the questions what is the issue with the union movement get some answers and then do a follow up with the d p because i thought it was effective last year linda went i went and we testify the you and honestly i think that was a big factor in the big fines that were levied will we get any of that money most likely not because it's going to get going someplace else but i'm prepared to go with a letter from the slackman again saying nice try it was better service nice people in ash agreed they sat with us but it was ineffective in the big picture because you look at mansfield you look at walpole you look at random everyone around us had an easier time than fox boro so somewhere there's a switch i don't know if needs to be a new switch or better wires but put some pressure on national grid through the d p u and put it on record that we just want happy at this  significant power outage issues problem of the mass so we've got it really out front my suggestion of the board is you don't lose the momentum that we've gained in and you have some sort of a discussion about it what do you do it privately with the national grid you do it publicly here with europe and with the legislators most certainly through the d p you process again by filing a letter expressing your concerns whatever it is you decide to do i think if we drive that issue the union loop we're going to be well served in the future it's the only key weakness left i give national good credit they did a lot of good tree work this summer and trees wasn't the problem this time we had a field that wasn't you know a big problem it was in line crews they had the line crews here they responded there's a little gap at one point within an hour so they flooded the town with a line crews so i think we turned the corner in a big way and they deserve some credit for what they improved on the key thing is this union loop that big box it's not something they're going to do willingly it's something we're going to have to press the issue on with our neighboring communities because we're not the only ones affected five out of two all sections of th was making a suggestion that you know thank you to national grid if they want to meet with us fine but take a proactive step maybe draft a letter to the department of public utilities and saying we have a formal complaint this is the third you know by the me about the the huge fine that the state put on national grid that money went right back into the state coffers that money was not designated for fixing the union loop so that did absolutely nothing for far us it just cost national grid the money that they should have been used forced upon them to fix the you know loop so that would be something that you know when you go to the d p you discussions i mean lay that one out you know part of the process on the fines before it was them the money there was no other vehicle for it to come back to the ratepayers but they did talk about kind of like when you're on  at the tarmac at the airport and you sitting there for six hours that money comes directly back to you with respect to paying for your ticket or giving you a voucher or a reduction it doesn't get back to the airlines so they did talk about that as a next step so i'm benefit of getting this in front of the d p it helps that next step anyways so kevin can you if they're right with the board draft up a letter and basically the foxboro residents have lost out again on monetary the fridge raters the daycare all that stuff we're not getting any further comfort that this is being addressed outside of foxborough and you know ask them what they can do for us so you can suggest m that we have council draft a formal complaint literally as we did last time to the d p you to be entered into the record to proceed if we can't bring suit ourselves we can make a complaint ourselves we make a complaint to d p you it really goes to the attorney general who is the only part that can actually enter into that action against them but will be on the record and then the follow up is if one of you wants to testify to that letter then you get to do it or town council myself if you're not available but it's more effective coming from an elected official frankly and that's a good way to get our notes on the record ok so we'll that we'll have the attorney do that and then i'll also reach back out to marcy saying it was the wish of the board we're going to have direction but still offer if she things well i understand that wayne drive they were told oh they can't get get the electricity back because you need for crews to do it right with it and it wound up one guy did it when they finally got the the truck back one guy  and again time just doing his job but you know i when i left here was a pretty good feeling about you know whether in the storm it was not the case you know we definitely i now you know i thank everybody the public officials and everything but i did get a couple calls from folks that and called the d p w about you know getting some trees out of the way because  was you know still without power and then the trees came down because of the snow and then they were concerned of like they haven't been down there plowing so you know if they can just do a little bit better with the roads the some of the side roads you know there was one little sweep down this road and there was senior citizens living there you know two neighbors had called left a message with  whole town made which of course takes hours then it was already melting and so making additional power issues was really questionable if it was a proper expenditure of the public's money but they know it was listen you know you knew it was going to mean i'm a weather man but i know it's going to freeze over night and you know trying to ice and then you got a problem with you know seeing is out there and you know i don't know channel seventeen a five day no right or you know they knew before we know that you know we were going to get hit i guess because time i got home i be able i believe got to my house and i can see in the snow it took me almost an hour to get up my driveway and not that you know my driveway is not the town strong character however getting you know going grid the next thing on the agenda was the quest for the town user fee waiver for the maya two thousand and twelve football super bowls at gillette stadium is a representatives from my usual thank you please to get our expertise and richard served as assistant principal that force roy school for a number of years as a result of that down and most recently as principal of medway high school so he's been aboard since  how comprehensive you'd like this presentation we did have the benefit of a lengthy debate and presentation last year  meetings as well as presenting to the materials that didn't happen this year not by a negligence like hope and i hope that's not the case for the you think it's just that we weren't asked for that and  but we certainly wanted to get back before you because the requesters is very important to us this would be the sixth year or consecutively that we're asking you to consider waiving context ok and also provide the rationale why we could use this consideration sure but the strong version of who we are is basically we are a nonprofit educational association with know level playing field for students we sponsor all high school tournaments boys and girls in thirty four different sports and we are very active and aggressive in terms of promoting the benefits of participation through an educationally based interscholastic educational curriculum and that curriculum consists of basically five pillars and which are good specifically the wellness coaching education sportsmanship community service and student leadership and those of the the values that we tried to teach using the vehicle of interscholastic athletic to us student athletes we have a most a quarter of a million student athletes boys and girls that do participate in our association visa vi our tournaments structure which is significant in terms of number and number of western then we go on to state tournament play we have a significant tournaments budget and that is as high as three point five million dollars in the number of events as i mentioned of all news now in terms of revenue biggest assets come in the form of just three tournaments football ice hockey and basketball in there as many as twenty three tournaments beyond that that have to be subsidized by those revenues we happened to have  a wonderful opportunity not only for the experience that i soon athletes have a choice stadium but in terms of if you would call it a business relationship is one in which  we're in a situation where yes we do write anticipated budgets and what we expect annually from revenues but it's always unpredictable that might sound a little bit askew in terms of a business plan but i say that because we are at the mercy of the weather for example sand the area is already negatively impacted us and what i mean by that if you were going to put on a tax you wouldn't get a dime because we wouldn't have the event and we wouldn't be able to use gillette stadium so those are all potential eventual situations so weather is a major concern from it's always an annual you can three different seasons so that anticipated money as is true that i'd say it that way but you never know another major fight is what we would community like foxboro and their program gets in a postseason tournaments their community is extremely supportive but they could be planning as a charter school where there's no community i mean all and so you're only get the benefit of one community in terms of potential revenue another challenge is we have a tremendous thrust in terms of  or harvard university or a song or was the sign from you know it doesn't matter if they're exactly the same but with the evolution of those programs in doing equity across the board we have those that many more opportunities exists and and consequently on the dollars have to follow and with respect to girls boards they are and they are not generating as much ink that that isn't meant to be a negative comment that just means i'm trying to fill in the picture about why we need these kind of dollars and yes we get them from a super bowl football or a basketball to gatton or  so strongly in the benefits of that there's a patient in the opportunities for them to learn life lessons through participation so it's a young it's we are out there beating the bush is to find the best friend use clearly the find the best deals and clearly advocate where we can save a dollar or in these type of forms for the for what i shared with you  make a dollar to take care of subsidizing all the others and it's not only tournaments that we're subsidizing we're subsidizing all of our students service programs which have suffered because of state and federal grants that are just totally ceased so our curriculum which i shared with you on has not stopped or diminished in terms of what we roll out to our kids in school but at the same time it project that's correct that's correct as one put out if a clear ok so are you planning if you had your druthers to stay on to springfield is next on the horizon to get the western part of the state is that our membership our assembly voted on a new football plan which was markedly different from what we have now for example we have nineteen super bowls now statewide are all over the place we only play six at gillette but they vote that actually went in the favor of a change would mean that they're only going to be six super bowls next year the goal is just i've always i've voted for every year that they've come to us and it doesn't really cost sound anything the folks that do come and go to our local businesses as well so it you know we should support it and the crafts give what they give you know the stadium has to pass that minimum anyway so  face seven cents per ticket and we get that because they don't pay real estate taxes so what that is is that's revenue to the town and i've done some calculations in saying  seven cents from the ticket prices the town would realize forty one thousand nine hundred ninety dollars and my can smile concern is that there is no tailgat so the kraft organization has a concession stands so they're going to make money in the concession stands and then also they donating the stadium to you so they're going to do that as a charitable right on and also three thousand dollars per year in membership so if we give you this waiver the only people who are not getting a benefit actually of the good people of foxborough the taxpayers of foxboro and that's  to generate revenue which i've been i think pretty clear about that they come down to three big sports some opportunities but they cover all the these own many nations of major dollars and  l benefits from all those as well but the situation we have with gillette stadium it's different from some other venue that use the town receives fees the the user fee goes to the town far our revenue far our revenue it's part of our revenue that the town should be that that the town gets and what you're doing if we eliminate this fee where limiting forty one thousand nine hundred ninety dollars putting a burden on the tax i'm talking about taxpayers of the town of foxborough the deal we have with the stadium is we get two dollars and forty seven cents of every bill i'm sure you remember that i have voted against this waiver for the past two years again the reasoning being that i think it's approximately fifty fifty  in real impact to our bottom line that i think right now especially given the potential with the move of the soccer term you know soccer out of gillette to a different venue  that would have a tremendous impact on our revenue stream so i don't think that again this is the year to consider foregoing fifty thousand dollars of income i think we need to be that money away quite frankly i think the other thing is you know i agree with jenny in that this is impacting the taxpayers you know in potentially another venue i don't know that other stadium situations where there are these events happen would have that type of agreement that the town where that particular venue is is forgoing tax revenue as part of that situation if an entity donates the use of their stadium or facility that's it unless they have a payment in lieu of taxes agreement with their particular city or or town but i think  again in the situation our tax payers end up subsidizing every other town it's participation in addition to what our regular dues are by giving up our revenue so again it's just another reason why i would not support this waiver i think that you know the stadium would be paying paying this fee to us just how we get our income and i don't think we should change that so the season we're actually giving the waiver to the stadium correct right and that's been my objection along is that we are waving a taxpayer's taxes to the town foxborough no one has ever waived my were any percentage of my stream yet can you hold off i'd just rather go to the border calculate that so if you look at it that way there is money that's left on the table from the town that when i getting in granted you don't get that issue with other times because they don't have that but i also look at it that when i looked at this last year i looked at what our costs would be as a town so the police service if they were called the fire and i understand that the patriots out of their pocket to pay for the police they pay for the fire and they pay for ten percent on top of that so there's no cost to the time other than the ticket you can argue that there's a potential benefit to the time because we do have the meals tax which there is money coming at the time when someone buys something at the stadium or any restaurant in town when this agreement with the town was put it put together on the ticket prices in the estimation of events and payment move taxes didn't have the turf field so at the time it was i don't think this was an issue before because i don't think they let anyone play on the grass there because it was only for the stadium now we have this of the football games from the college we have the additional soccer games we have the the maya and all the concerts because there is turf so i think we are taking in more than we  anticipated on the payment of taxes and it's business if we can take in more for whatever deal was signed maybe that comes out you know that's a win for for us on that side but nonetheless there is a benefit to that you know the  crafts you know when people say you know no one's giving me a break on my taxes and i agree it would be nice to get that but over the last year when we had some massive power outages you know and th were lights given to us for the use of the intersections in their generators and their electricians paid for by the craft organization to hook up the generators you know we have the option of saying no thank you that's a tax burden that we have to give to the people always say thank you that we'll take that that charity it will take that donation and we do so it is you know on one side you can make a legal argument and you can make the argument that you know tickets times two dollars is that in is owed to us but at the other side time then you get to say you can't have it both ways so i think this is you know if the craft organization was making a ton of money off it in you know but they're there it's something that for six years that they've asked us on the six year to say no and not recognize the benefits that it has to grow that area which benefits everybody i've always supported the  waiver and i think it will this year that was the board of kevin did you have something to add before the chairman i speak for the chief financial officer and i'm your chief executive officer we are  again opposed to this and would make that recommendation of the board i won't belabor the the completely complex argument but i will focus on two points first  correctly identified the central issue if it were the case that the stadium paid taxes this request could not come before you it would be unlawful in the state of massachusetts because of something in the state payment in lieu of taxes a pilot this money is in essence tax money is simply not called that this is common with a wooden is ations towns do it with colleges they do it with all sorts of organizations but make no mistake this is not anything other than the people's money this is money which is paid instead of taxes and when i add the total volume of revenue paid from the stadium is a tiny fraction of what the taxes would be if it were assessed according to our normal methodology so we are already taking a substantial reduction in what the stadium would pay if it were taxed in a normal manner now my comments have no reflection on m i a i know there's been conversations in the past about the beautiful place that they have and i i will say that these two judge well this gentleman has been wonderful and forthcoming he gave us substantial financial information last year to show exactly where this fits in my is funding program and all sorts of information and i very much appreciated that because it removed any don't whatsoever in any of our minds i think concerning them the margins with which are my deals in terms of funding its operation but at the end of the day it is not any different than any other not for profit charity it is a not for profit corporation which happens to the liver quality services to the youth in foxborough but m i a does not deliver quality service disproportionately to the youth of foxboro it doesn't deliver quality services any differently than it does any other community which is a member of it as we learned last year fox o alone contributes this forty to fifty thousand dollars annually no other community in the state of massachusetts makes a similar contribution anywhere near that volume i would feel a lot better frankly if this decision were put in front of the voters at a town meeting which is what would have to happen if this wasn't pilot money it would have to go to a town meeting and the taxpayers would have to decide in the meeting if the value received was worth the dollars being requested because that is the law in the commonwealth that is what the at the eight amendment requires and i have been associated with many nonprofit organizations at the live it services to communities and which asked for money and which had to go to a town meeting and justify that money in the form of an appropriation and authorization by the voters whether or not they would grant that money we are called police averting the legal process in the state only because and this is my second point there is a gray area in the nature of the pilot payment is counsel  year when the n e a demesne amendment to the constitution was written it did not presume pilot payments it presumed the people's money was taxes and so the aaa does not clearly identify pilot money is being subject to it so there's no case law on it and no plain language but counsel close his letter to you saying the following we consulted with the department of revenue division of local services which advises municipalities on matters of state finances on my tongue council at the time i spoke with kathleen cleary the chief of the bureau of missile finance law as we work through the issue she agreed that we had done a fine all the could not predict which way a court would rule if one were to decide the issue however because it is not certain the conservative position to take would be to not grant the waiver you have granted that waiver for five successive years the tax payers of fox put have now contributed somewhere between two hundred and two hundred fifty thousand dollars again and so this means that no matter whether we grant you a waiver a don't grant you the waiver with my figure came with two hundred four thousand dollars you're going to keep all the all the revenue from the tickets you in my way because you not get it's not we're not giving you in my aid the waiver on the on the money we're giving the kraft organization because you are right so it doesn't make any differen for seventeen thousand tickets times twelve dollars two hundred four thousand dollars you're going to keep two hundred four thousand dollars you get all the money from the ticket revenue right so so so are not granting the waiver is not going to diminish what you make on the on the twenty one year still the ticket sales you're going to you're going to receive all the money from the ticket sales so if we don't grant you that if the waiver is not grant we have a partnership with the crowds and the intent by all means is that we have it's necessary because of the relationship but what's on the table is that we are event that they allow us to have can be exempt from that i mean the whole disproportionate i mean there's not a ticket sold in july stadium ever for any event it's anywhere near twelve dollars so so the same two for a section that's twenty five percent of of it's taken from the take it you know some tickets their tickets go up to two hundred fifty dollars for concerts or in the like that so but but it's it's the event and it's what they do for us or they would never be sending us all of the money they would be the way they do their your contract with gillette stadium it's in the contract that you made with gillette stadium that you would apply for this waiver so that the stadium doesn't have to pay the two thousand and five the seven cents per ticket that's hundred four thousand dollars but that's not the case all that money is going to go for the children so you are not going to lose any revenue but the town of foxborough is going to you lose revenue if we grant you this waiver and that's been going on for six years and i don't you know i mean it this is i thought the waiver was granted to you the fact that the way was granted to the stadium is  from everybody get through opinion and as far as i mean that the legal letters we've you know there's been people that have flip flop on those presented both different sides depending on the year and it is a gray area if you say you know there's no legal precedence and there's no predictability we've been down that road before it's not a gray area if the two if if the two thousand and five the seven cents would be paid directly from the stadium if that's not a gray area in the event the ticket price the town of foxborough is supposed to get two dollars and five the seven cents then if they're honest we're not we're not if if we don't grant this waiver m i a is not going to be out money they aren't going to be out money you're going to cents per ticket because it comes from the stadium and i think what would happen was that the craft organization is donating the services donating the stadium and they would donate they would pay that on their behalf so at the end of the day you're getting the same amount of revenue if we don't grant the waiver you still get the same amount of revenue the craft organization would pay that seventeen times to write in there are they can also deduct anything they give to  that is claiming this sort of charity from public dollars and even though it's not taxation as a general fund receives if it is not holy the language is wholly publicly controlled and with private schools  having participation on this board it is not wholly publicly controlled and therefore in my opinion based on the former town council opinion i believe this is an illegal in my opinion and a legal granting of a waiver that aside the second point is just sort of a general or practical if if i had a son who was playing in a high school super bowl a was being asked to pay the number two dollars and fifty five cents extra on my two i wasn't wouldn't hesitate at all i would pay one hundred times that number to see my son play in a high school super bowl that you let state so i think we're not talking about what's coming out of a guy's pocket other than the people but the friends the parents in the friends and the family of these children that are playing in this very important event i don't think any of them would think twice about paying an extra two fifty five i just my only statement as is you know here we go again you know and my problem is that i understand the frustrations with everybody but i from what i i just i would like to see as move on and possibly mend some fences it's nothing that we haven't done already for the past five years it's the last year that we're doing it it does bring you know as i mentioned it does bring things into the town to the other businesses within the town i'm not taking something out of someone's pocket yes lorraine you know the desire could go out of town but they have committed to us that one point one million dollars every every godless and and again maybe we should start keeping better track of what some of our businesses do  for us not just the craft organization but some leeway if we can afford to do that i think we should just get a really frustrated in this point i understand that but i think you know everyone does charitable things and it's and i don't think that's really the issue i think the issue is much smaller it is a tax issue and that's  t i'm focusing on and you know again if my is going to be able to recognize the revenue that they expect from that you know i think that's going to happen i think we should be looking at keeping our contribution in line with the rest of the state no one else in the state contributes fifty thousand dollars a year to my own notes and the state has a stadium in that tiny that there's only thirty two in the whole  get into the town meeting warrant article franks plain do you want to come up and you've been here the whole night to talk about your son action i ok if we could yeah so i want to do that well here and if that's what you're waiting for there's an item on the action items it is the fourth item down a request to continue the public hearing for from november twentieth which is next tuesday to a future date regarding the liquor violations that were actually o'connor's well actually o'connor's was one of the three we had three last week we're going to do three on the twentieth  plus the one that didn't come with an attorney so we got four scheduled to take this off they agenda to a different date to january eighth looks like the letter the potential on this one to the seriousness of prior violations whose is for a lengthy hearing i would say two three four hours not all around the possibility looking at your agendas between now and the special town meeting you just don't have that block of time unless you know we're going to have a special meeting on a different night or endure the possibility of an extremely late meeting which i think everybody agrees we don't do good decision making after ten o'clock ok so the request to extend the hearing from the twentieth to january at do you know what time it was f and i would suggest the board because you have to go to date in time certain i'd suggest you go to seven thirty because that gives you time to get through other what may be more urgent matters and still have time for  could be a lengthy hearing motion motion to continue the hearing from november twenty ninth two thousand and twelve to january eighth at seven thirty two thousand and thirteen for wax he's mass  regarding the alleged liquor license violation notion that second i think i can by mark for the discussion i just want a quick discussion with this was our it was already in the paper to be advertised for next week was already in the  i just had a question you said this you don't think there's a possibility it could be sold say did what would happen to but it would everything be moot if it were to be sold via you know with the violations be no because you have to transfer you have to approve the new owner so you can hold a hearing before you approve a new one or however ok the board could legally decide since as new people involved that you're not going to have the harry i really on to the licensing authority i mean it doesn't happen right you have you still have the requirement to open the hearing on the eighth so if you had a request for a new warner for transfer of ownership you can act on that until you act on the hearing so you have to do that but obviously if you have that request pending then you might make a different decision on the hearing that's all going to be in front of you well if it sells it would be a lot of you know we don't know regular items special town meeting warrant review in the packet is i think it's the same warrant that we proved you go over to the advisory committee on october thirtieth yes that was  the board doesn't need to take a lot of time tonight all we want to do tonight is have you take a position on the ones that are sort of obvious because some of these you actually have a legal obligation on the favor and others you've already voted and so it's sort of go through them quickly identify those take motions on the ones that you can and then a den of five for me which ones you want people to come in and speak to on and have a little more involved discussion so i get that all scheduled  one you've already signed ok we're funding you're required under one fifty eight to take a position of recommendation so that covers article one and three those are the two contracts have already been signed but they were those are the two that you recall were pending the night of town meeting and we declined that back washroom in may and it back on now ok two is not yet done so to do wouldn't be any position appropriate on two but one and three you have to take a position of a one just so i think you know we did vote for that you're right it's on the agenda for the advisory committee and some of us have been going to this i'm going to go as well if it gets to the point where the advisory committee says there's big issues we can always bring it back and revisit it right ok and i think you know i plan on going tomorrow night i just seems like we're all showing up at some of these meetings and maybe we should post that with them and i was not forty eight i was by going to be with them so we don't sit together i just publicly when i state that yeah you know ok i remember you can appear to mean and you can speak personally but you can confer amongst yourselves and i mean i think we've been you know right right out you know naturally have gotten a call because i get yeah cause a lot of you know opening line everything that's article six is the turf field that hold off on that as well but on that article seven  e employee organ donor you know that's the law that allows we actually have a school employee do that this past year which would have brought the issue up and there's a statute that allows the town to give any employee who donates an organ thirty days off without impacting their vacation a sick time or whatever so that they can recover from the donation and it was suggested to me frankly i don't remember who i dropped it on the fold of fatah meeting and just put it on when it came up  the paperwork with the attorney general this is now a statutory commission because the other one really had no legal basis to it it was just an ad hoc committee appointed by you authorized to appoint by tom meeting this gives a formal authority under the law but it's still just an advisory commission four five seven eight nine through twelve and thirteen do could we come back and revisit it i didn't get it because this is what happens a lot is you know we get up to the podium and i know i voted for some of them but then once i have you know they've done their homework and i get more educated on it i sit there have you had the meetings with those votes i mean you know we're still putting the information we have to put together was jogging at that so we're waiting through trying to put it together hoping to meet with i'm not going to the more information that i was reading about and i'm just you know i'm i'm i'd like to be able to go to that meeting because i like to get wanted to get it on and they are late afternoon and because it's employees and so well if it's late afternoon yeah approves as want to get this straight magazine i was reading it and that approves but the legislation it approves the process to go forward for us to begin having the discussion with the unions not with the changes will be and what will be the dispensation of the savings and if they want to make an alternative proposal they can do that patriots home games for just sunday the eleventh eighteenth sixteenth and thirtieth but isn't the game on the eighteenth schedule to follow locke and the eleventh is done the eighteenth moved to for the sixteenth is at eight twenty p m and not that one the second part of the same letter says also we would like to request an extension to december thirty first liquor license this is not a request to serve alcohol to a later time but only to remain open until two a m moreover you have a hearing pending here is i think you're right so i would certainly urge the board to not take action on this request until you have the hearing on the the alleged violation next week otherwise you potentially acting in an inconsistent manner given a prior hearing and decision you made last week and you're awake he said one of the three of us i don't know establishment and in point of fact during the compliance checks they did fine so there is no reason for the board to take any action other than approve this if you wish or not so can you explain to me if they're not going to be serving alcohol laughing all at one thirty drinks off the table at one fifty five that would be your regulation it's extension so they are going to be serving alcohol after their allotted time a that's because usually they start serving alcohol at twelve thirty eight right twelve thirty they stop serving at twelve thirty drinks off the table five minutes before closing that's your regulation right so if you let them stay up until two yeah we're ordinarily drinks would stop being served at twelve thirty yeah and drinks off the table that twelve fifty five yeah it would just advance everything by an hour but this saying that they aren't going to serve alcohol i i think you have to clarify that because under the statute if you allow them to open i think that right comes with it to serve alcohol not be if you know limited time yeah right so i think if your intent is if their yes this is their annual is that you know these road races again more and more you know and it's great because we have great let's go by when we're going to close down a road for an extended period of time we need to make sure no road closing yeah and that was discussed but if i don't wait about three months ago you publicly promised that on all future road races so just a reminder to the board because it was a very emotional issue you know we worked hard on it and we and the term and that we could do that it takes a little more work in a few more details to do it because of crossings but that's up to the race organizers to figure that out and having it were people can get out of the drivers for two or three hours at a doesn't bother us you know they say it's only football players also and bike riders i had to throw in moniker is back from the fox verge a c's asking for permission to hang holiday banners around the common