morning your honor my name is david cooper i'm pro bono amicus counsel on behalf of the petitioners and i'd like to reserve two minutes of my time for rebuffed this case concerns claims for asylum and withholding of removal for the board of immigration appeals  ethnic chinese in indonesia asking a question to begin the timely application or the timely claim for asylum i guess it's a big issue right here in this particular case and i didn't see it in the opening brief our way through but no your honor i think there are a few reasons there are two reasons for that the first is that there has been every opportunity to br bit of law that says if you don't put it in your opening ready for a thorough that's true although this court has made exceptions in certain cases and much exception you come under i think there are i think there are two i think there are too many that's i think that's certainly more quality just like this when we're talking about an asylum case where there's been full briefing on the issue and therefore no prejudice i mean i think in a case where the where the government through the senate back were truly had no opportunity to raise an issue then even clients may have known or not known and so we've got all kinds of facts underneath and ramadan those list does undisputed facts and application of law to hundreds feuded facts here we have disputed facts seems to me then we don't have jurisdiction even if you did raise it in your opening race i don't think that's right nest think the reason is because the i a e a did not properly address to change the country conditions issue and whether or not they actually addressed it is a question of law not a question of disputed fact so the first point is that the actions of the i fail to properly address the issue that to be the end of the story this court should not be deciding to change country conditions issue in the first instance fact i can suggest that you knew about it a certain time and didn't file of any year there from then you don't make it and so when you knew or when you should have known or when you could have come to a then i gave you your if you this application was based on minor incidents of harassment and discrimination and the generalized state of civil unrest in indonesia the immigration judge affirmed by the board and timing of this application was untimely and not excused by changed circumstances and additionally den whatever was they were arguing that what i think the agreement that what we're doing i think it could lead to that conclusion yes tronic but i think also in the context of this case at the time when you think yahoo address didn't you know had on the ninety eight and then determines that the petitioners did not file their application within a reasonable period of time following those strange circumstances and make a further determination at the petitioners fail to establish any changed circumstances between one thousand nine hundred eighty eight and the two thousand and two filing of their application hundred and two thousand and two which would excuse that four year delay but again your honors i think that the marriage determination is sufficient on which to deny the instant petition for review because boy's underlying decision in this case so although there are time limits considerations in regards to this is the time a nation that doesn't necessarily and an excuse the fact that these are an exhausted before the agency petitioner should go before the agency with a motion for protections in this case and i just threw a motion to reopen or motion to reconsider filed with the board raising these intervening cases and that should be the avenue that they pursue here but in any event but tensions have never raised an argument remotely analogous to the disfavor group cannot establish are to past present future and or well founded fear of persecution as your honor noted during petitions presentation the focus at this point is on the well founded fear determination and petitioners claim on this point is basically an undefined stated claims of asylum based