i'll just ask you to say your name long more made a few comments underneath the media saying that i don't represent ninety percent of the black community and why i came unfortunately she's my hair is because i wanted to ask if she thinks she represents ninety percent of the black community and if there's anyone who represents and there's millions of us and the us ninety percent of the black community i thought as a representative that that was extremely and extremely inappropriate comment to make as someone who is supposed to at least be a voice for others and i would like to see that something is done i would like to an apology and i would like to see where her head was at with that i've literally only spoken to her and life a few times so i don't know how she can make such claims and again it's unfortunate that she's in my hair but i did see a piece that she sent out to the racial justice coalition charging that you know some groups were not me but other groups were saying that she had i mean what they were saying was defamation of character was demonizing and it was strange it was strange because that's the very thing that she signed on to regarding her own people group regarding a black woman so i want her to be able to be accountable as we're all growing in the public atmosphere and in a private atmosphere o first so that she can she can go home because she's been she's been waiting i like to introduce i didn't want to you can still be great from there but this is kayla donahue she is a full time opioid data analyst she is under right so i guess i'm just really excited to be here in working on this project and learning more about the appeared crisis happy to be working with the police department and exploring some police state that can be really useful i think in combating some of this public health work and public safety work that we're doing together and here is a resource that people have questions or want to look at different outcomes happy to be here for the community yeah i think one of the things we're seeing is that when we started this initiative over two years ago we had i was just saying this to kill today we had no no data but i mean we had a very we knew at the end of the year we did many people had died that was pretty much the extent of our understanding and i know the department of health had a repository of data that the average layperson didn't want to find in police departments didn't know how to make sense of it now i think with but with sam the prior analyst we got a very very solid so we've been looking at crime rates like related to some of those include like increased burglary prostitution things along those lines we've been looking at those and comparing them to it related crimes like drug possession or overdose we have data from the hospital they share the emergency department encounters so we have those numbers and then we also have their disposition so where they're going when they leave the emergency department we have some data from the hubs and county hall brother and the spokes and the areas that we have a date on how many people are requesting services how long it's taking them to get services things like gaps and new data that we need and then hopefully doing some more kind of studies so we have like ourselves that group that meets are you familiar with all of that perfect so kind of seeing if we can  more into that and try to predict who's going to end up in the subset group before they're there try to be a little more proactive about who are reaching out to maybe even following those you know following those individuals and back tracing to see where a good intervention points could have been and you know trying to do that for the new generations coming into this lot a lot of projects talked about even looking at how this is impacting first responders and police so how showing up at an overdose scene is going to influence the end of age of all looking at some of the clinical data with the clinician here for the first first responders things yeah and by way of invite maybe laura can remind me or we'll do it when an e mail blast we always welcome to come to the community stat meetings if you haven't been to one yet i think it's pretty interesting maybe can play hooky from work or school or home life it's this thursday from eight thirty to eleven is that right two and a half hours eight thirty to eleven and contours it's every with some exceptions  every last thursday the month when it is not open to the press because we have very candid meetings involved like agencies accounting for the some of the decisions they make including our own but it is open to community like leader so to speak and stakeholders which is the police commission for sure so if you want to remind you you remind me because a blast on an invite to them if you can't make it this month because it's in two days three days you can always come to any of these and i think it will be helpful to see our work in community stat on the oprah crisis was recently noticed by the viewer institute of justice it's a criminal justice reform group that just looks at innovative ways of doing policing it's based out of your city but it's got offices in other places in the country they sent up a film crew and they reported the writing of three thousand word feature on our work they interviewed kayla at length it's basically about  this is well that what's become clear you know we've been down to like i mentioned down to johns hopkins and u penn and johns john j in new york and talk at the center for naval analyses so there's a lot of like talking heads but i think what's become clear is the evidence shows that  means if you've been orphaned suboxone on methadone any things you can really really clear to us i mean people have known it since two thousand and twelve we're just looking at research today like the studies are six seven eight years old we're looking at a very compelling study that says even without counseling the psychosocial support medicine alone significantly reduces dependence and overdose i don't know if you want to talk about that really briefly if you could just say that's right but you know  it can increase retention into treatment and it can increase the likelihood of somebody going into further treatment and then you know there's other research to this as in the long term in order to really assess the trauma and sort of the underlying reasons why people started using opioids that counseling and other support of services are really needed for a long term recovery but in the short term in the short term the study that we were looking at earlier was pacifically the first twelve weeks no counseling no job training or nothing they had ninety two they ended up at the twelve weeks being over seventy percent completely opioid abstinent just having gotten the drug whereas the control group was zero percent opioid abstinence they were still using so with this means for us kind of want to bring it up with caylee here and during the chief's update is that one of the jobs of the burlington police department is to assist the city in a proper population level as far as  city and county goes response to the o p s crisis and so one of the things we've come to see is that we want to advocate for the greater availability of the medicine right now the way to get it is to enter into a spoke or a hub there's still about a three week wait is that right to get into a hobby even when your spoke even when you're when you want it right now but in those three weeks studies show if we just gave people the people in orphan started dosing him on it would have good effects immediately so we're exploring i'm like the prelude prescribe rather than just what way well if you if people take too much of it for instance that's methadone really is susceptible to that it's very hard to overdose you can't overdo anything's possible i'm sure they'll find some scientific it's virtually impossible to overdose on people who are overdosed but become disconnected from reality i don't know if that's the case so much with with the known you're going to overdose on it i mean buprenorphine so the idea overdose is practically zero on it so it's it's not the two as a scale was alluding to it's not about long term recovery it's about stabilizing a population reducing mortality reducing overdose probability and for most people if you've been orphan in your in your arm so you it's toast for to your needs and your are you can't divert it or sell it on the black market you have to come back and get a new prescription it's just there for thirty days that will be a game changer everybody says but right now it's a thousand dollars a shot so it's a wealthy person's option so it's kind of where we're going conceptually with with opioids is towards the medicine abstinence works ten percent of the time just saying go find jesus doesn't doesn't we're exploring that and we have research partners who are interested in at least helping the one a little bit like folks at johns hopkins a little like if you need you know without having a grant in place if you need some technical assistance just getting a program like the set up would be happy to help so started on a three day prescription have been our friend with a follow up assessment within twenty four hours so the idea would be that you know some people got even our friend the day that they're presenting in the evidence room with an overdose and then the next day they would assessed for treatment so that hopefully will go well we'll see how it plays out during their trial period but i think they're looking to get at least thirty people and roles and then they'll conclude the study after that if and if it goes well they'll be prolonging not and i think that will become the standard of care so we'll see how that all goes but they do have some plans in place i know dr parklane is working on you know if somebody says great i want to go into treatment and they're ready to go and after that the hospital is going to find a way to make sure they're getting before in between like before they get into the hub for example in three weeks and stuff so they're trying to fill in one of those gaps and there's a lot of moving pieces hopefully getting i would be oids i'm sorry kid i don't know to highlight what you're saying the emergency department the pilot if you ask the doctors who implemented it it's a result of community we asked them for data every month of what happens when you show up at the emergency department and the number one outcome of showing up  overdose i mean after reversal the number one follow up is nothing like ninety percent percent of the time it's just hey you're still addicted you've got some the locks on your lot go hole in the second most frequent outcome is you die in the e r so after showing that for months and months the doctors will like listen we've got to do something that's not that there's an either neither of those outcomes is optimal so they're starting this pilot where you get people are often at the e r three days but with that with i presume they can take the first one there if you want to do it and then you get an appointment with a psychiatrist to get into treatment so that's a that's again that's some of the work i know we talk a lot about other things in policing but this is one of the we don't have a health department the city so that you know it's no secret the city relies on the police department to help out with this and we've been diving headlong into it so it's like you have trick appointment well the hospital intends to give you a psychiatric appointment within seventy two hours last i heard and i just heard this morning actually getting i think our number one priority was reducing the wait list which we've done which is great so now we're moving with that is getting treatment on demand and reducing the wait time so that is something that's on the radar and i need area  that we've identified already is faster assessments more trained people to do assessments in at more avenues and then more people who have kind of a navigator role who know how to navigate the system know how to complete the assessments and then o to anyplace it refers you to treatment they would they would give you an appointment immediately for about three weeks from now so you're not waiting for the appointment but you're waiting to go to the appointments so there's a definition problem here but we're going to get to the lot of that you would as soon as i say something you talked about a new program where someone from the department and someone from the fire emergency you were going out to houses yeah that's been that's happened about three times the last time we did it so that's not uncommon for our over those numbers go up and down and we had like in in the summer we had a month where there is only one or two overdoses the entire month so we've had three since that started one the person was very lukewarm the other one we foster you can you tell them this is mike warren he's the detective bureau lieutenant and he will be the the training in a mr asian officer starting in april so he has some business tonight but if it's his first meeting which of first meeting right so anyway so that's quite well what you could say i mean you had data on him he every time he gets out he just goes right back to committing burglaries so it's vexing so the point is is that we've only had two or three but maybe just two of these responses  and that person she called us back and said yeah thank you for leaving the stuff i know why i wasn't around but i heard my friends dove out the window so that's something you select depending on the nature of the go if you overdose we go we just gut most people apparently reverse overdoses themselves with with nor can or they go direct to the hospital we only get involved when there's a police call of an overdose and we know that it happened and there's only been two maybe candid not a bad thing but it's not like we've saved anyone because of it i know you're probably going to go yeah i'm working on an evaluation tool for that program as well so that we can actually look at it in regards to a safe response team and see if it's worthwhile to do or if there are things that we can change to improve it very nice to meet ya i think he's like did you catch the guy that went out the back window but it wasn't doing anything wrong sort of trying to divert your back window so to finish up with the chief's report we took delivery of the emergency response vehicle that we spent a lot of time talking about with that knowledge thing really well built vehicle very very high quality construction selected zein did the design work on it it looks stunning and so we're ready to roll it out properly no pun intended we're going to keep it at streets undercover not certainly just you know because if i'd parked it here or there people say what the heck is that thing in the officers aren't trying to drive it yet it hasn't been filled with equipment yet we haven't certified cops on the various tools so i want to do that in a fairly organized manner hopefully by the community barbecue just so we can show it to the public there and have a press conference but it did i get i took my my wife to see it i say our babies in the nursery let's go visit it so we go to d p w but it's an exciting thing i think it's you know considering that it would take to the vermont state police like at least how only just they would take the tactical team to get to the burlington like an hour and you know and they have a very force oriented approach we don't want to wait that long and we want to be able to make sure that the police work is done in a way that we can abide by so this thing even if it's just sitting there in the lot which is not our intention and we like to be out rolling it would take a few minutes to get all of this good equipment to the scene and cops you know how to use it so hopefully that 's a long line i mean it's a really durable chassis so what i don't want is for the truck to always be at the at the precinct at the station house and then cops have to get to the scene see it's a crisis and then get back in the cars and go get the truck and bring the truck back i worry that things on phone pretty quickly and i worry that they'll just be biased towards a let's just solve it with what we have so we have adequate staffing which should be i'm just making up a number but it's about me like half the time or two thirds of the time i like officers to be on patrol in the truck so they can handle police business but if it's not a full size fire apparatus i mean it's bigger it's bigger than an ambulance but it's smaller than a fire truck and i say bigger the name is not much bigger just a bit longer i think the  like for argument's sake the box in the back of the ambulance is about the same size of the cargo body but unlike an ambulance those four doors incident two just to give you like a visual you'll see it soon enough so then if it's out there going the cops are there with it and they bring it with them to the emergency i mean that's the model in  many larger cities and i want to see the extent to which we can have that model here thing we can expect to see it being just driven around right now just responding to emerge right right so that right i mean yes that's right with the expectation that the equipment is all there on the roll right there's been more than one occasion where cops could have benefited from equipment and either took a while to get there or they said you know i don't have it with me so let's just try to solve the people driving the officers that are driving at though i if they they engaged in what they otherwise would be engaged in if this vehicle was yeah they're one thing they can they can engage in pursuits with the vehicle and when they had lights and sirens they can't you know they can't barrel to an incident but they can they can still do police work and you know they're still there are regular patrol officers but they receive training on the equipment and in the truck and also the plan is for them to also have you know crisis negotiation and and hostage negotiation training as well so it's about knowing how to operate the truck maintain the equipment use the equipment to be trained in the escalation and about we took we solicited volunteers and i think about thirty so about half of our over half of our patrol force requested to be qualified to drive a vehicle not just drive it but to you know to be the person who can do it and it's not a swat i mean there is like their helmets in the back we discussed this but it's not the whole thing is as far as lethal weapons go i mean the be the same the maybe two additional firearms on the truck more than what two cops in a cruiser would have now like that have a sidearm and a rifle he would have a sidearm rifle and a shock on so it's not for each so it's not like a weapons  armored and you can't fight from it i mean are you worried that is there a concern about it being used like on the level where we you know we all talked about it when you know early on about what i was going to look like an impression in the community was going to be and i guess i was under the impression that it would be more used in moments where it was needed and not day to day driving around town as part of like just another cruiser except it's this you know rather larger right here go but now i'm hearing that that may not be you know i mean i sorry if that was i think i don't you might what i recall i mean yeah i mean i've been but it's a clear that the intent when we have adequate staffing is to always have it on the road and that's just to minimize the number one create the expectation that we used to make sure that it gets there in time to use it and to make sure officers understand that this is equipment that should be brought to the scene immediately and to not have to have them like they could create a perimeter because there's a barricaded suspect then two offer the leave this perimeter and go back and get the truck and then come back here that may be the case if we're short step if we have enough people to just have a truck to begin with i'd like them to bring it with them to the crisis rather than have to go back and get it yeah launcher and there's no it's power tools and ballistic shields and you know we talked about that yeah i mean i again i just think that we were we've all including yourself was sensitive to how the defense is going to respond to this so i think the more visible it is on a day to day basis may translate into it being more acceptable or it may want you know right so that it could be this idea that folks get used to it but what what what what i feel about this is that people demand like rapid ineffective deescalation and isolation and containment and it's not that's not just verbal that requires that the cities with with adequate budget to feel like a real deescalation program and isolation containment for mentally ill people and barricaded people people in crisis fugitives and suspects and all that like you know have these apparatus and they have them deployed quickly or on the road that they drive around in them and the driving around part notwithstanding what i'm trying to say is that is that when to meet these demands we have this a quick minutes i find it in congress that burlington would say we demand this this in this in this but then when professionals bring that about we don't want to see what it looks like right i don't and it is a matter of not seeing what looks like it's just i think it's more a question of what its function was and i guess i guess i had the impression that it was it was it was meant to be something that could go and serve the safety of officers had crises and that it was not going to be just another vehicle to drive around town and sort of and do your normal policing work and it sounds like that that's it filming there is adequate status either way the idea is that in two offices a being a no or an officer being in a cruiser and driving around here she will now be in this larger vehicle driving around right and it makes it a much more visible object i mean i think there is a crisis in the north then and people see this vehicle there and people pulling equipment i mean it makes complete sense if they're just seeing a drive through their neighborhood they may start to wonder well you know what what if we become if this if this is the norm and i and i didn't understand that it was going to be more what do we become well i mean it would appear it and i haven't seen it yet and that's why we are concerned about the size of it but it's not a city that had a good it's a larger much larger police vehicle and i don't know what people will view of it that's one of our cars they'll be a lot of different things people will view of it but you know i'm you know bear in mind that i severed our relationship with the department defense because i don't believe in the over militarization of policing but i also don't believe in him out saying he said this i may be talking about people who are harsher critics of this something like the escalation to us that we just sprinkle on things like we do a physical job or seconds count i mean the reason why you know we acknowledge that seconds count in this in the expectations count of having the equipment there immediately matters and so on and some trying to split that i'm looking at the best practice i guess what i'm trying to say is having this on the roll with the level of staffing that we have and it would stay at the station house in cases where we just didn't have enough staffing to me like a minimum cruiser patrol requirement and put it out because it requires two cops if you have like five cars working that night i wouldn't have like to win this thing and then another three for the whole city but if you have seven or eight or nine cops it would make sense and so  have to see i mean i'm not i'm not insensitive to your concerns because they're real i just think we need to at least give the community an opportunity to understand what the vehicle is and what it represents and why we have it and and  and let them you know react to that and express opinions right and that seems to me the keys is getting out there and letting people see it and see what it's for yeah worry that it's going to somehow infringe upon their rights like it's just a writ large it highlights a tension in america right yeah i mean again i guess i'm reacting only not what i expected but what i guess i understood it was going to be used more on a case by case need as opposed to becoming another sort of right right all of you another patrol vehicle that we were going to use more or less on a daily basis i did not understand that i that's where you're getting better with our numbers would you say that that an incident occurs in this city on some you know historical basis in which we would want that vehicle present i think twice a month i think there's a cases where there's a burglary with an open door and you don't to put an officer in there you want to put a robot and we had a barricaded once every three to five weeks we get somebody sorry barricaded in in a location  and then we've also like you know a few times a year we get called to help folks in other jurisdictions as well so y i mean there are other concerns like using too much gas putting too much wear and tear on the platform but again like i'm curious  i want to come to understand how reasonable it is to say we're going to not so for me it's clear that getting there quickly is better so question is why i want to get there slowly more slowly or with more time when we don't have to because having it out there would offend some sensibilities and in a way that like in a way that's that's that is reasonable that's a genuine like if it's just the people who always harbor these feelings no matter what now they're seeing it and they're harboring it against this vehicle that's less of a procedure our process by which i mean the truck will not do certain things like if there's you know if i'm driving out by st i'm going twenty miles an hour over the speed limit and i'm going to get pulled over by and look back and see this large vehicle that's going to be somewhat more intimidating than that and police already i hope not i mean i don't want the car to get in i just want what it's you know the role that it will be used in other than its primary role which is to support these difficult moments that you know going to certain like very low stakes routine calls were it was like you said i mean it did a car stop it would block traffic so yeah so i mean i guess what we'll develop a procedure for it yes or no course that's right don thank you that's a that's a valid point it's important bring up on the heels of the pretty much covers everything i was just going to say stephanie said we know the economics professor released a statewide car stop data study just just th that will ask us to look at burlington only analyses and where we're ready to talk about a bunch of those not necessary i mean we can't at this meeting but by between this meeting in the next i think this will be in the press and we'll have some results to report the most important of which is that we did twenty seventeen analyses of all for twenty sixteen and twenty seventeen the results of our searches when we decide to search a vehicle don't vary across race we get about eighty percent  the argument is that you know that can show maybe they're using things other than just the evidence to make decisions for instance on if you look at some earlier traffic raise data we were less successful surgery seventeen it's pretty much across the united states two years running now so it's not the new way it's not a permanent thing but it's not like a year or a blip it's two years of searches and  for it which i was reading tonight just got released she calls this type of disparate outcome the gold standard of an indication of bias and so i'm not saying we just attacked it to like deprive people of the gold standard i think i agree with her that it is an important to really talk to officers about what it meant and and i think we really carefully of the last few years walked officers through the the intuitive appeal of this measure i mean it makes a lot of sense it's the one you can niggle about what drivers are on the road in state out of state how many black drivers are really on the road but when you know the race of the driver and he or she stopped in front of you and you search them or not it's a very unambiguous outcome so i think it's promising the still other disparities but by way of the chief's update this may come to light the next few weeks again as a top of the discussion that's all i got thanks i don't know chief this is a probate and they asked about the regional dispatch update is that are we can do it during commission question or maybe if you had any information oh so region dispatch passed so what that means is that every town in the county except for sh will become part of a regional authority with the task of forming a plan and it and executing that plan to bring about regional dispatches that make sense so it's not that people can still opt out nothing set in stone but there is now regional authority that will move towards regional dispatch a meeting with our dispatchers privately tomorrow their concern is that they weren't included in the process up to this point at all and the advice of the consultant was that in the attorneys who advised the city were that this was a that discussing the terms of work at that point would affect and in effect be a labor negotiation that the city wasn't authorized to have it still to be candid it really alienated the dispatcher's and they worry about their pay their benefits their job security some of them i think just don't want change others have very legitimate procedural questions about how it would work so ultimately the fire chief is the person responsible for the program he's basically the program manager the project manager but nonetheless the dispatchers work for this police department and i've been meeting with a few of them personally privately but a meeting with all of them in this room tomorrow well anyone who wants to come to to make sure that going forward now that the regional authorities in place and it's a weird thing right if they're working with the regional authority then it's not a labor negotiation because they don't have power to conduct a labor negotiation with the dispatchers it's but like policy in planning but if they were to have that very same conversation with steve locke as a representative of the city then it's a defacto labor negotiations so i just want to make sure that they have the right voice in this process going forward because ultimately they'll know how to make it work and i don't want them to just throw sand in the motor because they're afraid of change i want them to make a dispatch system that keeps cops safer than the present one gets there faster it's fire resources they're faster and it's a fair good place for dispatchers to work and that's that's where we are so  east this time you know we look at a lot of different laura like vary the city was they looked at all sorts of locations i really like the feel of having it in the street in a fairly narrow street just so it feels like this like a festival you feel like wow not that he thought compliments were necessary we're just bringing this up academically we have not made any progress on that but one of the reasons why is we didn't have an analyst and not caleb but in the stats and we'll meet next time hopefully is i need to take the day off but she handles that and she gives me a heads up on any complaint of note we haven't got and if it's anything there we've got somebody complaining that we weren't responding to traffic tickets that were submitted strafford conditions parking conditions submitted to see quick fix on weekends but that's because we don't monitor see quick fix on the weekends like as policy but no so i wish i had a more certain answer for you but this is my answer like whenever there's a serious is a local progressive leader and he ran for city council i met with him one of his worries is that folks don't trust the police enough to come and make certain complaints and or trust that if we make them buy  online that will follow up so one of the things i'd like to propose to him i don't know if someone here will actually physically want to be a volunteer he represents certain constituencies in the t q l g b t q community as well as just you know the progressive caucus generally if anybody would want to from the commission just say to reach out to mr winkleman and say if you know someone who wants to make a complaint you can let us know about like you know you can i read like you can say let me know about it i'll walk through you put it online i'll make sure the chief accounts for it we are serious like you know i believe cops do good work so i have i think we should be open about this and if they're doing bad work i want to know right so his concern was that some folks especially transgender folks  trust the process at all and if that's true in this misconduct out there i want them to come forward so maybe by having an on police bridge in the form of a commissioner would be helpful on roff and he wants to volunteer to do that  thought check with her but she's really good at that yes that's about it every month right so i'd like i do like to have her do that because i think she's got such a good way welcoming feedback he had a question that i understand cheap burkas if he was selected well you know and there's this really weird process he was selected sorry supper and then he was selected to be the chief of the south burlington police department now starting in july as a deputy chief in the become the actual chief next january so he's got you know a four months to stew and then six months to apprentice and then he'll be the chief but i mean i  felt like i said a little credit for mentorship i found him to be a great deputy chief of police in one of my right hand people in a big way and i'm proud of them i wish each day i love working with them and i think there's a great job but all have a copy of the movie with the update ok we also have copies of the original directive as it went by way back so i'm not sure because it's my first meeting i'm not sure how much you are all aware of the directive and how it play out but originally directive d d fourteen encompassed both the digital image and audio and video and it had the body one camera all all together as one directive and the folks that were looking at the bo worn camera directive decided that there were needed to be some separation between the two because the body worn camera directive was most likely going to have to be revisited on a very regular basis just due to legislative changes and other policy changes that may happen whereas the digital image audio video section is most likely not going to be so felt that that needed to kind of a stand alone directive so the body worn camera directive i think you folks it was february twentieth that you reviewed and adopted that as standalone directive which is now d d fourteen point one so it's its own standalone and then d d fourteen point t demitted digital imaging audio video other than body one camera and that may be the one that you folks have a copy of and basically it's all the same information that was contained within d d fourteen as it relates  to taking photographs taking audio recorded statements from individuals during investigations there are some subtle changes some things that really didn't apply now that we have digital photos rather than making copies of  actual photographs things like that but very subtle changes we also took out the show the portion that talked about mug shots mug shots is actually referred to in another directive we have  directive that talks about procedures involving arrests so arrest processing procedures a mug shots were actually probably being compassed within that directive but that's a directive that will happen in the future the mug shot section is currently covered in d six so it is still referenced but that was removed from this the other parts that were removed from this and the thirty five millimeter stuff that irony are spoken about so most of it's it has already been reviewed in the original d d fourteen that you have all looked at i think previously so there aren't any significant changes to that c fourteen february of thirteen was when that earlier version ok so we personally wouldn't necessarily have seen that yet and i think yeah i mean that was that was in january of thirteen at the commission look at that ok time because they had pulled the the part out about body worn camera i think they feel the they felt that it was appropriate to just continue using it under the new directive but then have the police commission review it and at the next meeting so officers started to fall to using their body camera to capture that sworn statement but then when detectives would follow up on those higher level crimes they would have immediate access to the body camera footage and so what was happening was some of these important interviews were getting lost for a period of time before they were available for that investigation so we've already started to director officers to during yeah to use audio recorder so this just puts that in words on paper  so aside from that there's no real you know they're words without you know without permission but you know if we're you know talking to one of the building or something like that we can turn it on record it i just i couldn't think of it and i'm sure you can tell me one but i couldn't think of a situation where it would be a good idea to record so speaking with a witness and so apparently that's what you do well so let's have a look for instance there's a non sworn statement and that's something that you know you talk about here it's just hey what happened today have evidence we're not altering the evidence itself or we're going to make a copy of it i think that's something that if someone was doing something the first time maybe they make a mistake there and while it may be an innocent mistake we would be destroying evidence on the case a public records request oftentimes we have to retract audio statements so it's just making it clear that we must be making those redactions from not an original audio recording but from a copy so there are many times where we may want to the court may ask us to take just a portion of an audio and send that to them and we may just take a clip out of a long recording and send that in so it speaks to that and then the other one you know when we're investigating a homicide or sexual assault that's the other part that's bold and i mean that's there's some law you know that cited there that gives direction that's an important thing we don't want to say case you know another instance in our directives we will not fire warning shots since the b to b c the bodywork camera directive was put in place on the twentieth so we have been operating under that but i think just for formality we're looking for the approval of commission we had a briefing on uva ems drone program here where they use drones to do things like searches or to respond to fires for example and the university of vermont put police officers in a scene not conduct surveillance for say but a case that was really compelling was a woman was in her car she was suicidal that she was parked next to a guy in a tractor trailer and he was afraid to leave because she was waving a gun around the police didn't want to get too close so they just monitor with the drone until they realize she was like literally falling asleep or going conscious and then and then the rescue the guy moved in and you know we don't feel like you know drones are very very sensitive and if effects of the ironies that any regular person sort of speak can just do anything they want basically with a job but if you're a government you have a lot of regulations and then there's the suspicion of what's government to do with it you know it's they're going to do surveillance they can invade people's privacy but we're interested in pursuing  maybe as needed having em or you with you v m that if there's a crisis we're looking for a missing child or there's a critical incident we could we could some contractor services which i think is a good way they're not going to come out like help us do surveillance on people second story windows  as part of an a more you or something but before going any further at this you see where this comes into number nine i wanted them to actually brief the commission in the public on the use of drones in burlington by them and what they've done with the state police and with the state government and then at least it would broach the topic it would level so that we could have a discussion about what's appropriate for our city if anything so there's no plans right now to just acquire on drones but i do i hate to think that if there's someone missing in one of our parks or forested area or if there's like literally you know we're looking for somebody off the shore that we couldn't deploy something on by you know to help look for them so that's kind of maybe have darla come in  get a lot of attendance if i said it's going to be a commission meeting on drones in the uk you know looking ok so i wonder if we should put that it would be good if we don't lose sight of that for a minute you're meeting yeah we were talking about doing that sooner because i remember a month i've been working on trying to get the yes funding and then i think was a month ago we had c c t v here saying that they had got some money and rachel was hearing that everybody was happy and you know and i noticed jim is back and i assume jim is here as part of the city t v are ok i don't know if he was part of the back of the peace and justice center doing it again and we had lost that momentum when i went back to c c t v i said i'm glad we got funding and they said no we didn't we're just that it was this that they had picked it up so they have picked it up but being ok ok thanks jeff appreciate anything else i'm meeting a vicious dog hearing here issuing a an amended order that should be coming out any day in response to some feedback we got from the parties after the order issued to be coming out  right and then in terms of the agenda we dreamed moved that director but i think it otherwise is pretty similar do we need an executive session yeah if you don't mind