on tuesday may first two thousand and twelve the cyclons meeting welcome to the high school we have just two items on the agenda this evening the first is a review of the town manager's billboard memo followed by an executive session which is scheduled just to review some executive session minutes like to start with the pledge of allegiance and ask  is the word no after a meeting we had in march f x p a part of the craft organization filed a lawsuit against the town we have now settled they have dropped that lawsuit they have dropped their request for the legal fees etc and i had asked the town manager if he would prepare a memo for the board so we could understand the events that led up to that lawsuit so  the reason for the meeting tonight is the discuss the advice that the town manager provided to the board of selectmen that led to the lawsuit filed by f f x p which is across the town in our own substantial legal fees i asked the town manager prepare a document explaining  his role immediately leading up to the f x p lawsuit resulting from the events of march thirteenth the town manager prepared a fifteen page report covering information a lot of which had nothing to do with the events of march thirteenth and the subsequent legal action and in doing so i in my view wasted much of the two weeks it took him to write the report he refers to exhaustive research in there but he did not take the time to talk to the patriot place review committee the patriot place mitigation committee or review the websites of those committees all of those provided information and instance the town manager was going to spend half his report on the history it seems that those would have been places to start with i also believe that the report contains numerous errors personal opinions which are contrary to actual facts and raises questions about actions throughout the process i prepared a memorandum to the town manager on the board which i'll give them the c evening and i'll send an electronic copy as well to the town so they can post that as a public document however tonight i want to limit my questions to the actions and statements surrounding the events in march that were not answered in the report and relates specifically to the legal action that was taken  so kevin i'd ask you to answer the questions as concisely as accurately as possible in the first question is for you under as the chief become an officer under mass general law when does the big the legal bid process actually is at what point did the bid become wives if you will correct such that we could not have a dialogue with potential bidders correct  my understanding of the bid law and through conversations with the inspector general's chief counsel which were not personal one on one they were through town council specifically through that at that point communication between potential bidders in the town is prohibited because it would constitute collusion and part of the bid process requires the signing of an anti collusion statement by all  ok and so regarding the first i have be when would you say that date was i wouldn't have any idea i'd have to look at the file would you you know the date that you actually filed the advertising etc well in this case we hired a consultant and we had special counsel and they really handled all the bidding directly with the want to sue a board and i was only very direct control i may consult with a border committee if it's a projection is being done on their behalf but in this case the want to school board since they really control this they pretty much control the entirety of the bidding process my special program and council really handled oleson my role was very very peripheral so this folder is all the material related to that bid and as i think you can see getting specific with respect to what think you'll see in a minute if you just allow me to ask my questions where i'm going and when did the first i have to be close again those days are in the memo so i have martin i gift in my notes is that approximately correct is what i'm surviving march fifth in my nose is that i think that's the date for the first bit opening on the first i have great courage by so that's when that bid process would end when you open all of those gates yeah ok that's what i thought and did anyone bid in that first round i was away in florida on military duty as i think the board is aware but it was reported to me that there were all of the potential bidders we had a very very active pretty big conference where we had a lot of interest in a lot of folks that showed up nobody apparently they all declined to bid and when the consultant called them to ask why they declined they all indicated the bid minimums they felt were too high and were too represented too much risk for them to be able to accept that amount of exposure financially to bit correct ok so now the week we currently have a second bee in process correct correct and as i understand it and that that request for advertising there has to bid went out approximately march twenty eighth could be and sounds about right what is the close date do you know off d riginal close date was in april but sort of indicative might have been may actually i'm not sure but kind of indicative about how this process works i got a copy i'm extending that bid to june second time believe and now i'm the chief procurement officer this is supposed to be much document i never made a decision to extend that bid and when i them i expressed my surprise and said who authorized this and i'm still i'm presuming the want to sue boyd authorized it but i know i didn't and that's sort of indicative a way this of the way this whole process has not always been directly hands on this one and indeed extending the bid for over a month without anyone even talk to me about it kind of illustrates that and did you ever determine who it was that took your authority and extended it without your approval well it's not really taking my authority i think that might be a harsh characterization what the process should have been is i want to sue board presumably if they wanted to extend it would have a dialogue with special counsel of the consultant and special counsel the consultant would give me a call and say hey i'm going to extend the bid for a period of time and i'm sure there was some very good reason for wanting to do so i don't happen to know what it is but i'm sure there's a very good reason and then i would say yeah sure that sounds fine and by the way what's the reason for extending it and i would then approve it none of that happened now i'm not saying that there's anything whatever wrong with that it's perfectly legal for it to be extended but i am saying that the ordinary dialogue that i'm might have expected would happen didn't happen so i didn't even know was extended right so one of the things that i'm trying to understand is the first diet be closed on the fifth when you open the bids and there was nothing there when the consultant in town council yes i did mean you being you when the town when the town opened them up and  then we had a meeting on march thirteenth a board selected meeting which is what the whole purpose of this was and sometime subsequent to that the board of water and sewer commission is authorized and i have to be to will call it and your report you indicate that you talk to town council and then it's some point within the next day or two it went on for advertising and so what i'm trying to understand is we have a period of time where i have the one is over i have b two is not started yet what do you call that period in the middle well i don't know what you call it because there is no clear distinction if you look in chapter thirty b you're not going to find anything quite so neat as you might like where it says the period where collusion with potential bidders cannot take place i will tell you this i have read the boatman's religiously that the inspector general issues and i'm aware of the fact that even prior to writing a bid if you have a discussion with a bit or about the contents of that bid and indeed some communities actually have on very very technical because they have the the a vendor write the bit that  is considered absolute conclude collusion so there are cases where collusion occurs in appropriate dialogue with potential bidders before an art of p is even written let alone issued so it's a very grey area and generally what the i g advises communities is number one if the town is going to issue and i have be it knows that it it's going to go through a process where he's going to issue  out recently when a potential bitter for the town's refuse collection contract came to a meeting and i refused to have a discussion with him because i know he intends to bed the bid document isn't written at that point wasn't yet written but i indicated that i was not going to get into a discussion publicly because had i done so that gentleman would have effect of lee disbarred himself from bidding he would have ruled himself in collusion and would have been allowed to bid and since it's a town's person and i know he's hopeful the disappear in a contract i wouldn't let him do that similarly in this case that you're talking about when the water sewer commission very in the immediate days following march fifth there were telephone conversations and text i was i think as the board they were very active from florida still doing time work in my off time for military duty and i had extensive conversations with special yeah i think it was very clear that the growing consensus was that we were going to reassure the eye of p we were going to eliminate the bid minimum with or significantly reduce them and mike indicated to me that that was most assuredly  the recommendation of the consultant the recommendation of special counsel and was in fact the going to be decided by the want to school board at some point and i never did know exactly when they decided it so at the moment where those conversations are taking place and i have knowledge that and i have bee is going to be reissued basically my understanding of thirty day is that as soon as i have knowledge of that document is going to be bid further contact with potential bidders is prohibited all right because you do see in your report that following the public discussion of that march thirteenth the board of selectmen of the water sewer board held a lengthy executive session the minutes are not yet released and you issued so i was just a little used because in one paragraph you said they indicated their intent the next paragraph you're saying you've talked to attorney hoffman telling it was authorized i was just confused was it or was it not in your mind authorize when you had a conversation with attorney hoffman my understanding from the executive session that night and again since this board has not yet released those minutes hopefully it will be later this evening so i have to be a little cautious in vote or not you were already on the record is supporting the issuance of the i have the to the board didn't feel any need to change its vote and the next morning when i called rod it was for them to say to him have the meeting last night  want to sue board indicated they going to reissue so you can reissue and i had a couple of the questions form and that's all laid out in the memo or specifically what i asked them and i guess the part that's that's confusing in i have notes here from the march thirteenth board of selectmen you indicated that agenda of the board of selectmen are not open to anyone who wants to be in time is open to that you're typically in dialogue with the office i said that's correct you then said at no time during the discussion meaning you discussed between you and i  did we talk about that there would be representatives from an organization that is a bit or on the invitation for bit of thirty b process obviously we didn't talk about it and neither one of us knew you then say because we're right in the middle of and were about to embark on again and we would be having a public discussion with the bid process i have to protest these gushy the strongest possible terms is absolutely injurious to the town's interest i am speaking of the cheaper term an officer of the community was given the responsibility of conducting the thirty bidding process in cooperation with water and sewer i will say that this discussion of the subject matter is that is if this discussion continues is absolutely harmful to the town's interest and is not just my opinion is the opinion of town council so part of what's confusing to me as a board member is i know when the first process closed i know when the second process began and during that meeting of the thirteenth you're saying we're in the middle of a process and yet we know there's a start date in an end date so it's very unclear to me as to whether or not how bright those lines are and that's particularly concerning because  almost during that same time for instance there's a there's an if you did a series of interviews one of them in the boston business journal you talk about the town of foxborough was ordered by the mass inspector general's office to publicly bid the article later on says that when they checked with the office of the inspector general they not issued an opinion that you had to do it there was comments in the paper about you were hoping that the craft group would just bid and just win the bid and solve the issues and so what i'm struggl with is that you were able to say in this process two newspapers that you would hope that they would bid if they would bid the problem would go away and yet they wrote multiple letters to you to the town indicating concerns they had with the process and yet those were not discussed those were not released but then you could say to the bidders because they read the newspapers etc that you would hope and what's concerning to me on that  if you take a look at it at almost the same time there was a release of minutes from a former selectman and also some e mails and e mail from your c f o the c f o wrote you an email detailing his concerns with the bidding process and he's referring to pre buy first bid and he's saying that he was ethically and legally troubled if the done fairly favor the kraft group over other potential bidders for the add management rights the structure of the r p in this way smacks of bid rigging he also won the bid structure had the potential to be as damaging to the town's reputation as the former house because seldom maisie's alleged contract scheme was damaging to the state so what i'm trying to just understand is we have a very structured process it has beginnings it has ends and you felt comfortable having discussions with the newspaper you felt having those conversations were ok and i'm trying to understand when you gave us that strong advice not to let them speak because they could poison the well when you were already sharing with people and sharing articles in the newspaper and questions have been raised already by the chief financial officer regarding the whole process with hindsight now and the fact that in the meeting on march thirteenth you read the earlier the march fifth letter would you advise differently  so you still contend that you think it was pretty black and white and that you played no role in what eventually resulted in a lawsuit because their civil rights and their will and their ability to speak were withheld a judge orde us to allow them to speak and we had to pay a lot of legal fees you don't see any responsibility for that at all i think you just asked me a several part question maybe i'd be better if you broke it down because i can't get a simple answer  withdraw the question given i think it's clear let me ask you if there's anyone else on the board that has some questions that they would like to ask you mark  present if you ever had a dialogue and want to have a couple meetings at the stadium in the go sharing sessions with representatives of the craft group and i had regular fairly regular meetings i would say about maybe once or twice a month there were balls with one of their attorneys john to excel i would say in terms of total meetings with representatives of the craft group over the course of september two thousand and t he sent us a memo that went to everybody that said these discussions because there's ongoing business with the craft organization and because of labor employment laws they should not be conducted this is should not have been submitted unless it's an executive session would you let me respond to that if would jim i had called town council to ask him specifically about a comment that was in in kevin's report he indicated that i directed the attorneys to do something and that was not my recollection when i talked to town council he indicated to me that that was not his recollection either and that  said to me was his recollection and that he had shared that with kevin in the cabinet indicated i kept detail notes and i'm not going to change and so i asked him if he would at least share with the board his recollection of that meeting he indicated to me that he was concerned because he didn't want to have the patriots the crafter organization f x p whatever be concerned so he wrote an email to f x p asking them if he could address this question they said to him that they thought it was important since so much of this whole issue was out in the public to begin with that if he believes the record needs to be corrected he should correct the record so the patriots  p gave him permission i believe on sunday or monday morning in order to do that and this was his memo trying to write what you know his recollection of a meeting that happened months and months and months and months ago as he indicated at least to the public that he did not feel directed to do anything i did make a comment that said i'm not a lawyer so the lawyers will have to work through that he indicated very clearly that he thought what the craft organization was asking for was an appropriate the chief or a german officer agree with him we took a break we came back out we said we're not going to discuss that and as he says in his memo the crafter organization dropped that request and that issue went away what's clear is that  i do not have the ability to direct the patriots the f x peace attorney to do anything mr mr pecos can meet with him regularly but i didn't and i couldn't and i couldn't direct in the do anything and our town council made it clear that he didn't feel directed nor did he do any follow up work as a result of that so i was asking him to clarify because the word direct was not what i recollected and it's not what town council recollected i'm not being critical i'm just saying meetings that in months and months and months ago that meeting happen to be a helps i have copies of town councils memo here and i also have copies of my negotiating session notes with bill bill for the board and i think somewhat contrary to what you just said  think you'll find generally very close consistency between what town council reports and what my notes indicate and i'd be very happy to share those with the board right now and you can take a  so yeah you know and then i talked to a little bit about this earlier the reason for this meeting mark was in in that meeting i was in right in the rain when they were not in that meeting and i was hoping this wouldn't get too he said she said which i thought this is going to get to you know this we step back a little bit this billboard issue has been going on since one thousand and ninety nine really earlier than  there you know kevin's coming here two years in september when kevin came in here it was a little bit of a controversy he wasn't a full you know animas vote or so we gave them don't pass a whole slew of goals and objectives forty or so goals and objectives and gave them the charge to just go ahead and do that in the midst of that we've had some severe power outages we've got the casino issue all of this stuff that's going on in this questioning that's going on it's appropriate but not at this table this perhaps should be at his review which we're in the middle of doing right now the billboard issue i'm a little bit confused and i've been going to a lot of the executive sessions it started out as a water and sewer issue and then they asked the for a select mean to get involved because it turned into a little bit of a wishy washy gray area where things were morphing out of that that wasn't under their jurisdiction it was more the board of selectmen so they asked if we could sit in on some of the joint meetings with him actually we had put in our goals and objectives and he wanted to go through them yes reached out to the water and sewer to see how we could help them deal with the sewer issue across town correct and early on in those discussions it was it was we were made aware as a board that they were not going to take the f x peer of the craft organization up one building the sewage treatment plant and if we really wanted the cash so that's how we got so it in and that's where as a little gray between sometimes they stepped out sometimes we stepped in and i went back and forth for you know i've been on the board coming up two years and it's been pretty consistent at that level now you know there's quite a few people that say you know that the town didn't fulfill their obligation by voting the source of the cross on obligated other people say they absolutely are obligated because it was on power points and it was the whole  mitigation and then there's as other thing that you know i'm not saying anything that hasn't been released but the social contract with everyone thought they were going to get it and now we get nothing it's part of our master plan of growth it's an important thing so at that time there was a list that came ahead it came to us and i think this was kind of the crux of the stuff that you guys are had that meeting about it was a dozen ten or so items on ten items and i looked at the list and i said  some of these are good ideas for instance there's an idea that maybe some of the money went to this route one beautification idea where the businesses would pay into money to beautify some of what norwood did they spent a lot of money on street sidewalks in the polls and it kind of beautified the area and people wanted to invest in it and i thought that was a great idea some of the items really we're not in our jurisdiction you know i was against the meals tax they had said would we be against the meals tax but really that was a citizens petition were all one vote so we had five votes out of the two hundred people so that was something that was you know nice try but we really out of our bounds route one bridge would be support think consistently been saying would support business development some of the things were brought in anxiety they wanted more liquor licenses and again nothing that is not out of executive session initially said you know we don't even want to address that now as part of this sewer thing maybe it has merit you know people talking about a bowling alley with a liquor license well maybe that's better than a bar i think generally we said we'll talk about it when the time and some of the issues like the no connection into sewer i think we all kind of just said it's not the right thing to do all right so at that point when kevin came on board my understanding between the water and sewer in the selectmen the negotiation with the kraft organization to put it bluntly from my perspective it was kind of a free for all lot of people were talking to a lot of different people to try to put our arms around that we delegated kevin who came in under the strong town manager's act which hadn't been tested before we said well kevin will be the point person nobody talks into the negotiation so we're not having ten different people and then you're going to go with kevin as a representative so at those meetings we weren't part of it i've got to say there's nothing that i've seen that you have done to indicate that you're going to go out and say skirt the law or you know of backhanded get something that's not good for the town where i see a board right now the lawsuits been lifted there's a whole bunch of stuff that we're trying to deal with and i don't want to put things under the you know ignore things but to have this inquiry up here on something that's passed i think is better left trying to focus on the billboard thing and how we can get moved past it now a couple weeks ago and stop me if you if you think i'm saying too much and i called up larry and i called up some of the other board members and i said you know between the stuff that's been in the paper you know kevin the bozo comments that didn't set well with me the in the newspaper stuff we had trader joe's coming we had the casino that was brawler over everything  nothing was getting done so i suggested that i would call up robert kraft and sit with them and show my concern that the town's not moving forward very quickly the craft organization certainly is not going we've got this lawsuit in if you understand what the lawsuit is when they sue the town they sue everybody individually so i got home and my name in my home address that was in the herald so that didn't sit very well so i asked linda to sit with me we called up robert and we went in so robert sat there in jonathan sat and dan murphy came in for the five of us and really my suggestion was what i think this board is looking to do is find out what's in the best interests of the town period craft organization as a private group they're trying to find out what's in the bench or move forward with what's in the best interests of the craft as a private to make money period if we can meet somewhere in the middle as has the past boards as has the past developments where we both can mutually benefit each other i think that's what we want to get and we had some good discussions at the end of that discussion robert said he was going to drop the lawsuit he appreciated us coming it's not his business to sue his business partners and this is what it is it's a business partner ship it's not a friendship it's not sure not invited over his house for for dinner is not mine it's not friendship it's business and if we can understand each other better we can move forward what i'm concerned about now is this thing is lingering the lawsuits drop kevin you've been you've done some great things and you've done some not so great things and that's going to come up in your review it came up in your last review and it's going to keep coming up i'm not sure we're going to get with this meeting by going back and forth and saying whose fault it was when i really think the people that have been watching the show over the last couple months need some direction and need some positive forward thoughts rather than keep going back you know i'm thrilled that the lawsuit in discussion i had was please don't drop the lawsuit if it's quid pro quo or you feel like your rights are violated and it's not addressed so i think we're all in a good position to move forward i am very uncomfortable because this bid process is still out there where you want to call the you know rick r f p or what have you we still waiting for the other ones to come back all of this discussion could come back and hurt the town as it could be you know part of this memo that kevin wrote it was under the feeling that we were going to fire him i don't know how you got that idea but that was in the paper so i don't know if this memo that you wrote was self preservation and that's why it's hundreds of pages long i was expecting a quick two page memo but it went into depth it was insulting to larry  larry's going to push back lorraine sitting there quietly but elections next week i don't know where this is all going and i'd rather have it moving forward than try to pick it apart and go backwards and jim here's where i was coming from you didn't hear me take paragraph by paragraph and go back through the last two years what i was trying to focus in on is a bid process started and ended and then it started and ended in some place in the middle there we had a border selective meeting in our chief experiment officer made some very strong advice and threats and said that if we didn't stop it right away he would not be held accountable for what happened well then they filed a lawsuit and what i'm trying to figure out is we've spent we will have spent a whole lot of money with our own town council on this whole process and we have to understand if the town manager needs additional training on on on being a chief became an officer or if in fact we need advice we do these kinds of things i think we need to do a lessons learned so what i was trying to do was ask in ascertain from him when the first one started when the first one ended when the second one started one the second one ended because right in the middle of that timeframe is the march meeting and what was with difficult for me to try to understand is while kevin is out with the newspaper giving all sorts of stories and information about things he's not allowing them to say anything and i was concerned on behalf of the town that if there if he's aware of information that says i'm not going to give you the permits for the signs or i don't think this is the signs are on your property except for that all that information should go to all the bidders because of all the bidders don't have all the information then what could happen is they could feel as though i see a hand lorraine of the vacant feel as though that they don't have all the information so what i was trying to understand is kevin felt comfortable saying whatever he wanted when every wanted to whoever he wanted to but in the middle of this process when they came to say something to the board of selectmen it was it was a post i was just trying to we want to avoid going forward these kinds of issues whether it be with the trash people or anybody else that we're going to go out to bid on we want to make sure that we've got this why it's all i was focusing on was that one meeting wasn't going back through all the other inaccuracies that i thought when i was just trying to how do we make sure going forward we do that correct and i don't disagree with that on this particular issue over a dozen years you know i could read these one hundred times and still not be clear so i can understand when there's a bid process out and we all wanted it to be a positive experience we wanted the craft organization we didn't want to go out to bid we wanted them to be able to wrap it out so i think between hoping that the first bid process that they would be in the six second bid process i can now they're back like so but pete they did send a letter of march fifth which which you can't get i'm not trying to split hairs jim and i'm not trying to go through the fifteen pages i want to make sure that we get this straight so we're not wasting legal fees going forward  know what i really think that jim is trying to emphasize here though is that we have been advised by counsel to conduct these discussions in executive session  he writes preliminarily i have recommended and continue to do so now that written reports about a year old disagreement between the craft organization not be conducted and mr harrington pecos not be conducted outside of an executive session in this manner in view of the unfinished business with the craft organization and the extensive attorney client privilege issues and in view of potential labor employment law issues so i think that what jim correct me if i him i think this is the concern i have for continuing this discussion where counsel has advised us not to have this discussion in public fifty page document that's out there already and to not be able to respond to some things doesn't seem are able to have this discussion and in an executive session if if necessary i think it's very important for us to consider paul duran's his recommendation to us and i would feel very concerned on the town's behalf that this would not be for the public this would not be for the good of the town if we continue this discussion li to reiterate what you just said larry about that that i don't know when the ranters had advised us other than today that we shouldn't have this discussion in public i don't know kevin did he reach out to you prior did i'm sorry did duran's his reach out to you prior to this evening stating that we shouldn't have this meeting publicly if so when about two issues of potential litigation that could emanate one from facts that are revealed in my memo concerning the graft group and the original memorandum of agreement concerning the billboards and that could be a source of litigation and he wants to have a meeting with the board to discuss that he's also concerned i think that the board not cross any lines and be unfair to days since larry i think spoke with him concerning having this meeting you know paul has expressed his concern to me and to larry about about the town's interest and whether this is the best way we can serve it having this discussion because i'm sorry lorraine i know that mark had made this motion now over over a month ago so  paul and rod review your fifteen page memo and provide you feedback did either one of them put anything to you in writing at that time urging you not to release that memo as a public document rather either do it through attorney client privilege or do it as part of executive session i don't believe they did that i can recall there were quite a few emails exchanged and i'd have to go back and i mean you can see the palm material so i have to go back and look at it but i don't recall him saying that  no when i talked to paul i got the distinct impression that the town manager is correct that while paul looked at this fifteen page memo he didn't i didn't get the impression that he thought that he said in fact in fact kevin and i had talked about that so the board knows and once the lawsuit was settled kevin felt and i agreed with them that it was difficult to do in executive session because we're dealing with a lawsuit with a lawsuit was dropped so therefore he did his or his report public and i didn't disagree with them it was reviewed by town council signed off on by town council not signed off is literally signed off but they reviewed it and when i talked to town council they didn't dispute that they reviewed it and they had a conversation about some things in the report so what is disturbing to me about town council is that he didn't give the advice to kevin before the fifteen page report was dropped in the public he didn't give them the advice before it went to all the newspapers he didn't give the advice before it appeared in the newspapers and then when i called him on that particular item the initial conversation wasn't one of concern about executive privilege so to speak his concern was i'm still negotiating with the craft organization a number of things and i wouldn't want to offend them anyway in any way so i said to him well why don't you ask them and if they're offended then we will just drop it and he went to the craft organization and they gave him permission in an e mail because he sent me a copy of the email to do it so now now he's coming with this one at four o'clock or whatever it was this afternoon and it's worded much stronger than in the the verbal conversations he and i had or the conversations i think that kevin had with them agenda i just want to point out that you know paul also states that his legal recommendations to have this discussion and in executive session were denied we have not discussed this so we have not discussed this what i wanted t was who denied him because who is he when he what he said to me i think it was probably yesterday is that he hesitated correcting the record in public and he would like to do that in executive session and i said to him i thought it was unfair to have someone write what he wrote in a report would you have a different recollection and you or i can't correct the record publicly and i said i want the record corrected publicly paul if you disagree with me and you think if you felt i directed you to do something then you want to say that but if you if you believe what you told me in that you didn't feel directed and that the  other tourney wasn't directed and that there was a comment made about i'm not a lawyer you guys work through the legal stuff and we moved on to other things i said i think it ought to be corrected because i think there was an intentional effort if you read the fifteen page report throughout the two years there's lots of comments from lorraine or paul or jim or linda or some from mark as well none of that's in there the only takes comments to me and i think that you all saw the comments  phil henderson is here in the audience tonight people that have clearly argued and said that some of the quote backs that are in the page in the report aren't correct and so i didn't want the public to think that what's in there is gospel and it's correct when you have people like bob hickey or you have people like phil henderson who will who could offer that is incorrect but i don't want to get all of that tonight when i really want to just focus in on is between the two bids in our meeting our meeting by refusing to let them speak and you go back and watch the transcript or you can look at the meeting itself the advice was so strong the chairman had no choice but to not let them speak and as a result of that from the look of what the was on the agenda the only other thing is in the executive sessions yeah town managers indicated those don't have to be done tonight you know we can't do those here this is a third time we can't exactly session minutes outside the room i think i'd support that because and also i am not a lawyer larry or anybody knows that i really think this could get to a point where it could be liable to the town if we continue it i think the best thing we can hope for is to continue in executive session the future i really sincerely believe that i think there's been some wrongs i believe there's been you know  some i wouldn't say maybe i would say they were right maybe some miscommunication maybe because you know like you said people have been all over this the all conquering divided been in place for so long and it's still going on with other issues where you have so many people prying into so many other people and then say he said she said he you know it just gets so confusing i don't think anything can structure is going to be done in open session because if we start saying kevin you did this wrong and you should be liable for some silly thing you know then he's going to say you know what you just landed me in public and next thing you know we're going to have a  lawsuit on hands where i think we need to do is an executive session therefore we can work all our problems in executive session i think it's very unfortunate that this has to happen on the dawn of a new election i think it's very important  and i think the people understand that that you don't agree with what was said and unfortunately to try and bang this out in the fight tonight fist athirst and get into a real  problematic situation for the town in the future is not going to help the future board whether it be the present board that we have here now or the future brother could be coming down a week from today  could change dramatically but i hope that from an educational standpoint from an accountability standpoint you're taking an executive session you go through the issues parcel through what's true and what isn't true and you'll decide collectively were the additional training coaching or accountability needs to be so that's what i was hoping was going to get discussed this evening i don't know about any fisticuffs or one on ones or anything like that mark and i'm pretty sure there won't happen  but there is accountability and transparency is very important this document has already been this document was before we even discussed it as a board this was out in the newspaper along with other things well in the newspaper but again i tried to make it very clear that i don't think it's right folks going to the newspaper and certain things and stating certain things kevin obviously you know i was upset about the bozo the clown wouldn't come in here you know that really hurt me i love this town and a lot of other people do too and and anybody who should be privileged to to be tommy and you love this town i can tell it you try it you've been here long enough you know if you just say that i think it was out of frustration and i think that's what happens to a lot of people you know just try to think about that you know lorraine you know again you know going to the newspaper and accusing us of you know secret meetings or that we were going to fire kevin  had not i knew nothing about that so when you stated i don't know if other people talking about it but you haven't heard it well i haven't i didn't have discussions about that so i was hoping this evening what we could do is take this that is a public document now and correct it and make sure that it's it's amended to what we believe is correct now i guess if we have to wait for another two weeks to do that as a board i guess i'm willing to do that but that's all i think this was supposed to be i really i don't know why we had to get we had to again move our home to this big location i don't i don't understand that but you know this is becom just too much and i and i don't think that it should become you you know putting kevin on the spot larry that i think we just need to question him on some of the things that we saw that were inconsistent with what we believe that's all i just his e mail today it will and i just don't want to cause to tell any more but i wouldn't it be different if this was if if we were if we had this in executive session where it started then that's when we would amend it but unfortunately that's not when this came out this didn't come out in executive session this came out publicly first so i just i don't i don't understand so now we're going to because you know i'll say this because many a wise person has always told me while it was in the boston globe it must be true just because the boston globe or the herald or any other newspaper wrote some does not mean what the person has said and we've all talked long on the war we all know that's exactly why i'm not going to base a decision on the board by a piece a newspaper because we've all been down the line that's exactly why i don't talk to very few people because your say something they misconstrued exactly that nelson who you don't know for a fact that that