suggest that mr snyder was acting as a service or for the defendants with respect to the closing and servicing of the loans of the joneses and the victims of the other homeowners victimized by the does not define service or in the terms of anything other than the actual conduct in performing these tasks that is exactly what mr snyder did in this case and it meets the definition of service are under arrest as well as a debt the definition of the lender stage it's under common law and for me to be able to explain that your honor i would like to be able to briefly describe the the the ponzi scheme that's at issue here the story begins with the equity slide down discount program that mr snyder ran from his mortgage brokerage company o p s them mr snyder was a license mortgage broker operating for almost twenty years his mailing address with post office box one forty four in operating for that long mr snyder had a substantial business relationship with th contractual relationship we know that that this is a relationship was quite substantial one hundred seventy eight times suntrust for example provided the funds that were then later converted by mr snyder into the it into the equity side down program and if that's what i need that i think i would like your honour's to understand mr snyder described the program in a letter to the homeowners and that all regulations require our sun trust mortgage to disclose this information to you within three business days of receipt of your loan your loan from personal financial management personal financial management wasn't a lender call personal financial manager personal financial management a lender it also said the third paragraph this letter should you have any questions regarding the color of the enclosed information and then close your permission is the truth in lending disclosure and also the service and transfer disclosures please contact personal financial management so what this letter does is in the origination process it closed  now we have mr snyder and his brokerage company that's not a lender being closed with the mantle of authority by of lender as part of this this loan process so what mr snyder says is i will arrange to convert prepayment of principle right up front called the wrap payment and these prepayments were substantial they were between twenty five and thirty percent of the loan balances off and the joneses in fact paid seventy thousand payment and what mr snyder did in the second step of this closing of this won't was he showed the let the bar with documents showing them that those prepayments because you're participating in this program we will be maintaining the servicing of your wow ok and then what he did is that them documents for them to fill out so that he could carry out these d there is obviously doing something different than what an ordinary more servicer does right well to the extent that he's retaining the money and not paying it right so i would hope that services generally abide by t responsibilities but there is no no it's not just up but you know i mean he you know created this different mechanism gave the borrower a different loan right i would say no your honor i said there's only one loan there's only one assuming a person can become a service or you know without being appointed by the by the mortgage he even assuming that could happen  he was collecting the principal and interest payments on the only loans that there were there were only one there was only one low and paying principal and interest on the only loans there were no the fact that he was collecting the wrong a math the fact that he did they sign two separate documents if they sign something with the original lender and did they then sign a document that has a mortgage with mr snyder yes they did and i was so there are we don't know prior to having just any discovery taking place what the lender actually know but i will tell you what we do now we know that the finding wonders and or provided money multiple m i'm i asked you what the joneses signs in the joneses signed first a mortgage with the lender capital l in the briefs yes and then they signed a mortgage without the knowledge of the lender i think that the definitions of rest to provide for that the bench reality but i would also say we don't rely only on rest though we rely on basic common law which although we have not had discovery on this so required that he not retain any interest in the lives including services but nevertheless for one hundred seventy eight plus loans suntrust that we know whether or not they thought that was odd do we know whether or not they ever discussed the smiter we don't know any of those things what we do know is that is sufficient red flag to put some trust at least on notice that we're doing is paying substantially less on the mortgage loans they had with our clients and they were doing that for so if you missed the schneiders equity rap product as a result  preliminary injunction before judge judge every day they didn't make the required payments of us they dug that hole deeper recognizing the jones predicament and recognizing the fact that there was a putative class out there who was arguably not honoring their legitimate commitments pursuant to our loan documents judge giles spent an extraordinary amount of time on this matter exploring every aspect of the plaintiff's case he held by oral arguments on this agape plaintiff every opportunity to get it right there original complaint filed in state court of our loans contending our loans are void it brings a fraud task they eventually file an amended complaint and a second amended complaint completely recasting the case first they started it by accusing argument on the twenty fourth of october you know you a month before they filed their second amended complaint said to them quote you should take whatever time you really need to make sure that you've included everything that you want to include and that you excised that which you don't want to ride on this merryweather responded to judge sheil saying we would take a very good hard look at the facts now what happened here they ended up the point i want to make is they had access to those thirty eight plaintiffs they had access to those files one of their counsel mr cain before judge giles and the november nineteen zero seven and were these checks in the amount required under the mortgages the checks from mr schneider as a general amount as a general matter were in the amount required under the mortgage yes that however servicing and make somebody a service or even if the somebody doesn't have a statement by the lender that you he is amount per month on the mortgage than the mortgage provided no that was not wrong so if if the mortgage provided you pay five hundred twelve dollars a month the bank was getting five hundred a correct if that fact does not turn mr schneider into a service or because that's not the term that the statute used a service or again is the entity that received from the borrower the schedule periodic payment mortgage with us clients the genders have to pay a set amount per month right kraft i don't know how much that was that's but then it was five hundred twelve dollars why are they their equity rap agreement nice they were pain schneider eight hundred ninety seven dollars and one cent a month pursuant to their mortgage loan documents with they were obligated to pay twelve hundred three dollars and forty eight cents a month so they sent the lesser amount to mr schneider mr schneider then added on and sent a full amount to us now  not receiving the twelve hundred three dollars and forty eight cents he was getting a lower amount a lower amount he was getting wasn't called for by our loan documents it was called for by his separate documents with service was our loan so what you have to look at is what are the terms of our loan and let me show you five reference documents ron if you look and there's no dispute about the authenticity of these of these page thirteen forty that document is labeled mortgage note and that is the documents that jones is executed i'm sure what page was that thirteen forty ok glass the document the jones is executed three days later it's also in the amount of one hundred ninety thousand dollars but this document requires payments of eight hundred six dollars and forty four cents so what would happen is the joneses would i mean i was a payment of what eight hundred  six dollars and forty four cents so what would happen is the joneses would make the payments of eight hundred dollars and forty four cents they were and they would make that payment to schneider they were not most certainly there's no there were maybe two separate transactions but not a second loan well it did the joneses received a second check so they speak for one hundred nineteen thousand dollars no no in that sense it was not alone but it was a separate exactly and for instance that the prior page in the appendix thirteen thirty nine is what snyder termed the federal loan disclosure and it's a truth in lending disclosure for his hundred nineteen thousand dollars transaction there is a separate but the joneses would operate and would make their payments to schneider not pursuant to our documents because if they were following our documents they would be making the higher pay payment the twelve ninety six forty six i referenced from page six ninety three of the record they instead were making the lower payment paul for page thirteen forty of the record which the second subsequent document they entered into with with things about that number one i think that goes the agency point because there's simply nothing in the language of that that says simply because we receive a payment from him in any amount that makes him our service and let me give you an example i could leave here today and set up an automatic bill payment with my back saying i'm the first of the month pay my mortgage company the full amount of i don't think anybody would say that when my bank starts doing that to my mortgage company my bank is automatically became my service so i could leave here today allegations and statements and their allegations and their statements to judge giles for plainly that the bar was chose to deal with might say well he could have yes but again it's important they sought out schneider they started dealing with schneider as their broker they didn't have to do that there's no allegation that we referred them to schneider or said you must deal with snyder in order to get a loan from us consistent with that up until they filed this their briefs in this court they repeatedly referenced in all their complaints and repeatedly stated before judge giles that the bar was were ignorant of had no idea we existed repeatedly they they said that mr farina at the time twenty seven oral argument on page three twenty three states the joneses never had any contact with and bank a month later mr cain page by fifty four the record says the farmers never dealt directly with the lenders i could go on and on really make statements like that and in fact that the specter the payments your honour's what happened is and again this is in their complaint and they also can see did this at the second subsequent closing when they entered into the schneider documents schneider direct them we didn't direct them schneider directed them and they signed document i think his name signed they signed documents at his request requiring us to send all of their statements ten ninety eight forms except for a to him and can't leave this courtroom and make myself this court's agent i just can't do it the court would need to do something that would allow either verbal ear by conduct a third party to consider me the court's age did snyder not only paid all of the principal and interest on the loans he also received all of the communications from the lenders on the loans and received it either through you know that the direction of the borrower may i show you the  direction that he's speaking up your honor that's at the in the appendix of page six only and then the next page six ten there are this was this was the clever part of the scheme this was how snyder usurped the servicing role he had the borrowers bill out this blank change of address directing that all of the correspondents be sent to a post office box in only pennsylvania on every single solitary loan for fifteen years a post office box the same post office box of the broker so that this is not merely that a bill paying service with making the payments this was that all the communication  are coming to their brokers address a post office hocks highly suspicious connel in that snyder provided amortization schedules snyder provided the bars with the ten ninety eight snyder did everything that any normal person would believe a service or was doing and i think if your honour's look closely at rest there is nothing within that statute that would it hold him you a service or that collects he was not licensed to be a lender he had no money he gave no money all he did was take money he was not a lender even though suntrust cloten with that mantle in correspondence to the