good evening glad to see you here on this coming out of the rainy evening i guess april showers bring may flowers i'm not sure what november showers bring hopefully that saves us from some snow i don't know or maybe we're just going to have a now we're going to do a couple things that we have done for decades and we'll start with an opening prayer led by our colleague council member hoekstra and then after that we'll have the pledge of allegiance we will do that standing if you care to join us do s so inclined i invite you to join in this prayer lord we acknowledge your presence here as we begin our counsel me but your mercy and grace and guide our spirits in your intended purposes for creation frame our thoughts  actions as we gather a renewed council of us to be servants for this community direct us to be vigilant to those things necessary inspire us with vision creativity in those things possible in a power thank you dave now we'll move onto the consented and that is the list of items that we plan on handling in balk at the end of the reading so we will have one vote to consider all of those items but perhaps you came here this evening because you  really interested in one of those items if that's the case at the end of the reading of the full extent consent agenda i will open it up for people to come to the podium give us your name and address and which item you would like taken off the consent agenda and then that item will appear as it does in the sequence on your agenda and will handle it then so will start with the consent agenda read by tim buckley please thank you bear the boar item for  b to approve the minutes of the november first regular meeting and november eighth two thousand and seventeen special and study sessions item four see to accept and file executed oaths of office from various boards and commissions item twelve eighty one to approve a data sharing agreement with the state of michigan for participation in the governor's twenty first century infrastructure asset management pilot program as approved by the city attorney item twelve eighty two to approve the h p b p w s january two thousand eight hundred schedule of fees and charges and industrial pretreatment program fees item twelve eighty three to approve an additional delay of six months until july first two thousand and eighteen before implementing the terms of the rate schedule to transfer adversely impacted rate b customers to rate m item twelve c one and four d to accept and place on first reading ordinance amendment minors in possession of alcohol with final adoption at the december sixth two thousand and seventeen regular council meeting item twelve d one to refer a claim filed against the city to the city's insurance carrier and city attorney for consideration i don't twelve e four point one two accept the quarterly investment report for the first quarter of the fiscal year july through september two thousand and seventeen as presented item twelve point one two accept a grant from the office of highway safety planning in the amount of sixteen thousand eight hundred fifty four for extra patrols for drunk driving and seat belt and force mint within ottawa county item twelve easy five point two to approve the holland allocation of the burn justin's burn justice assistance grant in the amount of thirty three thousand six hundred dollars to support the cost of the three public safety officers assigned we met and the local budget for the grant to be considered as part of the fiscal year two thousand and seventeen eighteen budget subject to approval was to form by the city attorney item twelve a six point two to a resolution to approve the murders the service credit purchase request for firefighter in mt joseph ruiz item twelve e's six point three two approve the revised join agreement with the national insurance services for a long term disability insurance subject to approval as to form by the city attorney item twelve east seven point one two to approve submitted by com tech in the amount of twenty four thousand eight hundred ninety two dollars for upgrades to the security and access system at the holland police facility item twelve e seven point two to declare as surplus various technology services items and direct staff to have them recycled thank you tim so perhaps one of those items is of special interest to you if so please make your way to the podium and give us your name and address and which item you would like taken off that consent agenda so we can address it separately for you seeing none will close that anyone from counsel want to take anything off consent move on to some special recognitions the city of highland of the honored in a couple ways one is from the road runner friendly community we have some people here to talk about that would you care to come forward think it is ben and barry and you have a couple friends with you only when friends coming the other one's a little timid i think it's ok but as you said my name is ben burry i am the president of the holland running club i'm also on the board of directors with me here is heather boswell she is the our treasurer and also on the board of directors for the holland running club a little bit of background about the holland running club we are a nonprofit organization gotter corporation in october of two thousand and thirteen and have quickly grown we started our first year with one hundred members we're now at one hundred eighty members and have close to eight hundred followers through social media and such you may have seen numerous us out around town and every time i think i've know every runner in town i see another group of runners that i don't know and i get to know them so  think we do a lot of special things with the community we organize a st patrick's day race every year or have just started doing that within the last couple years and plan to continue that we do a number of things with the city as well now what we have come here with you today is a program that was introduced to us last year through the road runners club of america which is our parent affiliation and we they had a program called the runner friendly community so late about the r c a they were founded in the one nine hundred fifty s and their mission is to champion the development of community based running clubs and events to serve runners of all ages and abilities in pursuit of health and condition so we are the local entity that is carrying out that that vision here locally so annually they provide the opportunity to showcase how communities across the country support the sport of running and we took the opportunity to showcase the city of holland the city of holland was accepted based on a number of features a few of these being the five miles of that wonderful snow melt that is out there that attracts so many of us expression in the winter months the numerous parks and pathways that offer water fountains the adoption of complete streets that ensure safety for pedestrian runners including recent features such as additional pedestrian crossing lights and strategic curb bump outs the city policies to ensure that city works city sidewalks are well maintained throughout the city and the local government entities like the holland police department that support race event organization and safety so these numerous these features are too numerous to  list but they're all important because they are the features that seed and grow programs supporting not only physical but the whole well being of our residents here two of our partners that support of the say application are shining examples of this the first being the sports run camp which is offering a bi annual formal training program for runners runners of all experience levels and the second one being pathways arbor circles total track quest a prevention based mentoring program for boys in thirty fifth grade to encourage health and wellness while preventing high risk behaviors through physical activity and training through running so it's the decisions that this council and city leadership make that  help foster this community within a community and ben and i here on behalf of the holland running club membership would like to ask for your continued support to support infrastructure and policy that support the sports  we sincerely thank you for your commitment and your work that has built this community that we are proud to be showcasing as our r c a runner friendly community today well thank you thank you so much we appreciate your advocacy and what that took a bit of work heather so we have a plaque here that we'd like to present to the city for display and hopefully then the city as well as other visitors convention bureaus i would hope utilize this sort of award as a marketing tool for the city as well i think it would bode bode well for tourism in such that you know you come into town and find a local running group i know when i go visit other communities i may look up on the internet and find a local community say hey let's go run and we would more than welcome any visitor to come into town and run with us at any given time so that's great thank you so much you i can't wait until we get the funding and make a bet tunnel in me to even the energy park and windmill and gardens to do that circle around the park and through the tunnel and then around wi think it's a beautiful well this is yeah this is gorgeous the runner friendly community that wonderful thank you so much and it's not just about the activity of running of course that's healthy but the relationships is really what a lot of what people seek and that is great to have just groups of people getting healthy together and it really builds the connectivity that we want throughout the community and so we have healthy relationships healthy people and a really welcoming community so we really appreciate all that you do connecting people so thanks and thanks for putting us on the map with this is something we really are proud of thank you for coming in tonight and thank you ryan caton for all your advocacy in this running club i know are one of the one of the founding members and definitely a very dedicated runner and we appreciate all that you have done for the running community and allen to thank you so we now are working with the global trade magazine and we have someone to talk about that tonight gregg no ok i'm going to talk about it the global trade organization magazine rated holland as one of the top places for global trade in the best small market category which is wonderful they said in the article that well course it's nicknamed the tulip cities so it is one of the most beautiful towns in the united states but it's also very well rated for its business because it's because the cost of doing business is relatively low in holland we have huge enthusiasm with our driving business development people and it's a great place one of the best to start a business according to wallet hub and we're also one of the best to raise a family they said and for all of those reasons highland was honored as one of america's best cities for global trade in the best small market category so that is a wonderful honor for holland to have as well it's in the global trade magazine so we did not apply for that it just happened so that's really wonderful so moving on to public comment this is a time when anyone in the audience to can step forward to address council about whatever is on your heart or you need to give us your name and address and you have five minutes to speak they're a little lights green means go yellow means one minute left and blue and blue red means you're done five minutes are up so if anyone have would like to address council make your way to the front and you can start district as i'm sure most of you know daniel garcia has decided that she's going to seek the senate seat that it's going to be vacated by our own week off that will leave a hole i'm intending to i have already filed and will be running for that seat i've been the county treasurer for the last ten years prior to that i was a township supervisor for zoom township for just about six and part of that i was a banker for eighteen years so those financial things that i've learned as well as the the public service stuff that i've had a chance to to again i think are the things that really could have allowed me to go to lansing be able to be of service there but i think i think the somebody has asked me bred what are the issues that you've got and why would you do this and the answer is i don't really have an issue or issues what i really believe i think we need is we need somebody in lansing who understands and has been on their local boards in our local communities who understands that local government is where most of the work gets done and that's where people get served that's how we how we make a difference and so we just need to make sure that our laws that are being written actually favor local governments the funding favors local governments it's not at a state level so that's really my purpose in trying to go there and i'd be happy to answer questions any time i did place a card at your seats tonight you may get ahold of me using the e mail or the phone number on that and thank you very much thank you brad thanks for coming in anyone else like to come  running for office is as brad said there will be seats vacated in the two thousand and eighteen election i am running for the state senate seat i serve this community and other communities for six years as your state representative and i feel that we it was a great experience for me it was an honor to serve and i feel like we accomplished a great deal but i cut my teeth right here in this building as a city councilman mr robinson is and ron are the only ones left that i actively with that i worked with all of you have come since i left mike replaced me so he's been here a while too but i had a great experience in lansing and i love serving this community it's been some thirty years now that i've worked in this community at some level and wish to go back and serve you more i think bret is right that local perspective is necessary of making sure that the funding is brought back to a local community because i believe that it is spent here better than we can spend it in lansing and i said that years ago when i ran for the state house so i do have a small agenda and that's create more jobs and sustainable jobs and to keep those jobs here in michigan when i started ten years ago i went to lansing we had a whole different economic outlook here in michigan it was not good and i spent two years in the minority but when we took majority in two thousand and ten things did change and i think we will all agree that michigan is far better off  from that first term of rick snyder and when i was able to serve my four years of majority so i hope to bring that perspective back of creating jobs state ability in our economy and bring that if it back to our local citizens so thank you very much i'm going to give a few brochures to the city manager primarily because my cell number is on it and i would encourage you to give me a call and love to have coffee i want to hear what's important to you and for the t v audience i will say my phone number it's eight three six zero four zero two i don't want to tell you as much what i'm going to do is listen to you as to what is important to the community so thank you thank you anyone else care to address council the oh sorry parking deck agreement you skipped over that sorry ok we need to talk about the parking deck would you like to talk about that right yes thank you would do that well a few months ago the  entered into an agreement with g d k to arrange for the construction of a parking deck along night street between river and pine part of the parking deck will be on property owned by the city part of the parking deck will be on property that is currently owned by g t k and the picture in front of you shows the city property in green the g d k property outlined in orange and that's roughly the footprint the orange line and the roughly the footprint of the parking  deck we set up a procedure to to make this work better by conveying the city's property to g d k in january of next year of two thousand and eighteen of them going forward with construction and then sometime in the fall of but not later than december one they would be complete and convey it back to the whole property back to the city the orange outlined property back to the city in return for payment of i believe is six million seven hundred thousand dollars approximately that at least and and then the city would have a parking deck g t k would have some parking spots that they would lease and pay taxes on a it would help facilitate the parking needs and in the area well as g t k is developing the area to the north of this parking lot location they came to the start earlier desired to start early on that under the original agreement they would not have been able to start until mid january they want to get started to soon as possible doing infrastructure of the work that they need to do at the ground level and below and so we've put together an agreement that will protect the city's interests and seen this go forward but also allowed judy k to get going we described the type of work that they will be able to do under the what we call the early start agreement and provided some protection options in there for the city to make sure that this goes ahead properly and so we recommend approval of the early start agreement greet any other comments from coun it's exciting when construction people want to start early that means good thing good things are happening there they're getting good interest and their project and yes that speaks well for eighth street so do we have a motion supported by byrd any other comments could you call the roll please tim yes garcia yes  sui yes we are to bore yes motion passes eight zero thank you sir moving on to transportation services in the hope avenue reconstruction we have brian white resolution resolutions now that's was going to be for ok resolution to modify the city charter to set the nominating petition and that is what ron wanted to talk about next i think i'm nominated to talk about that thank you they're under our city charter that was adapted in i think the one nine hundred fifty s it provides that petitions for nominated petitions for the city's elections have to be filed by the six monday before the election before the primary election and then we have an ordinance on the books that provides for petitions filed by the six monday before the election a little bit of a conflict there but then state law is adapt different deadline and that is one that we need to follow and so the statute that requires a different deadline allows us to adopt a resolution allows the city to adopt a resolution to set that deadline consistent with the statute and that's what you have before us the deadline by statute that would be adapting is four pm on the fifteenth tuesday before the add your primary election also to address concern that anybody that looks at our charter or ordinances would see different dates and might be confused about when those petitions have to be filed the resolution provides an item for statewide date and it's always going to be the fifteenth tuesday at four o'clock correct no matter where you are in the state you know that now ok and so we recommend the adoption of this resolution all right thank you ron any more discussion or questions f transportation director brian what could you please take us to h  on the the screen before you are the limits of that project basically from sixteenth street to drive there's also a piece of pop up drive that's going to get some work that will entail a stormwater connection so that portion of papad drive won't get a complete reconstruct would just be a utility connection that occurs there so a couple of things with regard to hope avenue this will entail an assessment so for those folks who may be viewing at home you will be receiving some correspondence in the mail from us about a public meeting upcoming  we expect that to occur possibly in the middle part of december or january after the new year where we'll go ahead and have some preliminary information for you some base maps and  take him put on you know the local conditions of what everyone is experiencing out there will also share with you the plenty information about the assessment roll and things like that so  hope avenue is currently a shoulder section street it doesn't have carbon gutters it doesn't have storm sewer associated with it at least not in its entirety and with this project it will be a complete reconstruct in those improvements will be part of that part of that project so hence the assessment there the recommendation before you tonight is for the city to hire a consultant to assist with engineering and construction administration we went out and sought proposals we received four back in the low cost proposal from paradigm design and the amount of  hundred fifty eight thousand six hundred dollars is what we're recommending approval for tonight and those costs would be funded through the street improvement reserve fund and so that's what we're recommending tonight thank you brian any questions right do we have a motion most definitely motion to approve recommendation forward supported by any more discussion there is celebration there is and will be yes we are excited about hope for hope bhavna thank you for all your work could you call the roll please motion passes eight zero thank you sir then we need to have gifts from the management ministry of services reports city managers offices police resent the following gift parks and recreation to graphic nature center susan ladd fifty dollars bend and judy smith fifty dollars sally il john trust a thousand dollars a community neighborhood services downtown development authority jane basco one hundred dollars it's recommended these gifts these donations be accepted with appreciation expression of gratitude before descent donors thank you tim motion a report from the city manager can you tell us about the civic center greg how did you know it was going to do i think i can just let me you received it your last study session met bent i can give you an update on the construction of the civic center let me to courses into the details of what's going on underground and all those types of things that he sees on a daily basis as he inspects that project i am working towards the  exteriors where if you drive by the project now and even pull in the parking lot and take a look at what's going on you'll see almost all of the steel up perhaps it is all up at this point now so you get a great feel for the overall footprint of the building and you'll see significant changes of course from the former civic center building this here's a photo of the scaffolding around the elevator shaft that's going up at the north east corner of the building slide beneath some work already things are different than what you're seeing on these particular slides that he showed you i think just a week ago certainly this is different this is on the east side of the building where you can see the the  block walls to the left on the slide and some of the steel on the right that shows the new entrance way the new lobby area i think this is a much better view of that and again there's this rough over the east portion over the left part of the slide is on now as is a steel along the right part of the slide the north side of the building so i think just significant changes that show that construction is definitely underway the new shape of the building is underway the new civic center board which you have appointed will have its first meeting on monday so they have received their meeting packets and they're ready to go so so you know this is a for feeling great about where we're at with this project about the sense that we're getting of the scope of the project what it might look like at the end when you think about the glass it's going to go on the east end of the north on the north end and on that northeast corridor and also of course very excited about the civic center board beginning its work talking about event management and booking policies on rates and excuse me so we can begin taking our reservations for use of the building so be happy to answer any questions for you right now thank you ok thank you and that's it for your comments credited for my comments today all right thank you so much and i'm looking for my sheet for the appointments i'm supposed to have a listen oh wilson who's going to be a member of the international relations board and she will be serving for one they tell me june june twenty twenty ok so i need approval for her for that serving till june two thousand and twenty she's replacing a person that has left so could we have a motion to that effect support supported by two or three we all those in favor say aye right opposed same side that carries thank you and also wanted to let people know there's an open house this thursday in city hall if you want to talk about downtown and traffic patterns we've been doing some studying over the last probably year or so and so we're looking at how to route traffic and what will work best we would love to have your input at back in so th will be this thursday from five to seven in council chambers here and we'll have brian white from transportation here and probably representatives of the mexico area coordinating council as well who've been apart of this whole study so it's a pretty comprehensive study we'd like to have as much input as we could at that so come on down and then there will be a parade of lights which is a favorite in the area and that will be a week from tuesday the twenty eighth of november that's at seven o'clock it starts on the east the eastern end of downtown and moves it to the civic center where we have a final program there so we'd love to have you come our walk as a part of the parade put all kinds of real godly light up things and that just fits in great for that event and there's a lot of a lot of trucks and lot of kids and decorated dogs and everything so come on down and then the first of december in council chambers again we'll have an open house for the holidays please come on down and enjoy that it's from ten in the morning till one thirty am we'll have coffee and cookies and it's just a time to get together and enjoy the holidays so if you would like to come on down and see the christmas tree the big christmas tree that they always set up and so the haul in the decorations should be up by then too so enough to have the more people the better so come on down and make some connections with people that you can get to just a friendly reminder for the community as we know the seasons are passing and one of those rites of passage is there are the annual leaf pick up it is winding down in fact it will be done this coming sunday the nineteenth from that point  you can put your leaves out to the curb leaves only no branches out to the curb the city will come and pick them up and one final sweet and that will be commencing on monday the twentieth they've already made a few passes  around there are still a lot of leaves on the trees and we're hoping that this cold spell that we get all the sudden there are miraculously going to come down this weekend the rain that they're predicting will be here and everybody will be able to get the stuff out on the curb so keep it away from the hydrant keep it away from poles keep it away from other obstructions makes it a whole lot easier to pick up we thank the city crews for this service this is actually a great recycling program because we grind these up and a lot of your black dirt for your tool beds are made of leaves so great recycling project so nineteenth this coming sunday is the last day monday is the day they start picking them up so get those leaves out on the they love your disney description of this weekend's weather hopefully that works any other communications from council members yes david first of all i like to welcome the two new members on that you experience of the same thing and that is that as a group you can imagine when you get nine people together here who come from different places and experience life in different ways and have differences of opinions and world views that to try to get some a consensus or just to get people together to talk to each other is a major undertaking and to accomplish it in any functional way is is quite an accomplishment and we may needs to do that quite regularly but not without moments of friction and i think we can all think of times when in those moments when we're talking about something that that we have a particular affinity for a passion our disagreement with something else that we all try to keep a calm demeanor but passions be what they are they sometimes we just a point so elevated to volumes and speech and i think the method of operation that we've come to live by is that we can disagree without being disagreeable and we can yell and scream at each other and i think we've thrown things very often but at the end of the day of the final analysis when we leave the room we still love each other and respect each other and we can go on to another day of disagree or agree and somehow managing to accomplish quite a bit  so it's good for me to to think about that and be reminded of the fact that as we go through our about her duties and approach the different tessa we have a lot of work to do this year and the next couple of years to remember to remember and recognize that we have value as human beings and and working together in the knowledge each other self worth brings us to a point of functionality that isn't always realized in political groups like this joy i think you could probably a test or a few things where you've seen things like slim workable so i just offer that bit of history here and a goal i guess for us and then the next year or two to read remember how we work how we work well who we are and how we value each other because we've got we really have no time to waste in petty stuff so that's it for another year thank  help ok then we are moving to any other motions or resolutions you know has waned well they've given us a great speech here and i'm not trying to shake the in holland from hope college and roberta of horror of was the executive director of the latin american united for progress in holland came to the city council on two different occasions asking us if we would be willing to send letters of support concerning dhaka and i brought it up last stash and i thought that was something that we should do so i would like to throw that out to the group i know we typically do not support government questions like this but i really see that this is not a republican or democratic thing it's an issue concerning young adults that live in our community go to our schools work here are on sports teams they get driver's license they are part of the community and i believe that they are entitled to see at least some thoughts so what i'm proposing us to think about is letters to be sent to respectfully request you were urgent action on the deferred action of childhood arrivals daca executive order due to expire on march five two thousand eight hundred please support a clean dream legislation we recognize that the young people currently benefiting from are in the united states due to decision is not on their own over time they have become valued members ever community contribute to the media and long term welfare of our community and as stewards of the welfare of our community we call on you as local federal representatives to exercise your authority and influence to provide continued legal presence of our area's daca beneficiaries we look to you to exercise leadership at behalf of our valued members of our community thank you for your attention to this most important and pressing matter and i would hope that i guess i'm making a recommendation that we as a council support that and as many of the council members would like to sign it i would appreciate that you know some people have said well we can also another separately well that's true and i have done that but i think there's something to be said about a group action when they look back at washington school when they were interested in building a park they developed a neighborhood that came as a group and i think that was important when there was a question of common park and parking or traffic problems they came with the group wasn't just one person so there is a benefit when you have a group and i think if we are a city we can be a group and i think we can have more influence than in still since the sun and other letters if we wish to and i would encourage other people in our community who have the feelings of this to do so but i would have been i'm going to ask the city council to support this recommendation  think there's a lot of people in our community that are impacted by this i think you're on the right track wayne i've seen numerous letters from representative hazing and i know he's talked to the city and talking has gotten us a letter that basically says he doesn't support it what i see here is politics my fear is that nothing will happen and it will go away you're specifically asking for a clean dream  think that might have some politics attached to it i don't know exactly what that means but a letter i would hope that all of us would sign a law this table would be something that says please mr all our other federal officials who have been in who are in a position to to make a difference here is make sure you support the notion of getting all your colleagues in one place and doing something before this thing expires because that's where i fear politics is going to rear its head and nothing will happen if we have to say clean dream act you might have some of us up here saying i don't know that's too much politics for me i don't know the answer the question i know i would gladly sign a letter to mr hayes the good and all of the other elected officials you've referenced here saying please make sure you do something to help this situation between now and march fifth two  eighteen i mean i'd be happy to sign that letter my fear is you it is steeped it's steeped in politics it's tragedy twenty five twenty eight percent of our community is hispanic and i would like to think that they've ever been a time where we could as one group support this group in this way this would be a pretty important thing to do so thank you for making it happen and bringing it  idea that i don't support us because i absolutely one hundred percent think we need to address daca i am we have a friend he was married we knew and those kids taught us kids in sunday school you know they came over to the house they were family friends their kids played with our kids i hung out with him my wife hung  her and long story short he went through a long process of being jailed and then he was deported i seen the ramifications of that now his son and his daughter are constantly in trouble not just in trouble with lower level but they're in trouble with the law now that would have never been the case if he was home and i understand the threat of haven't families torn apart now where i struggled with this was we talked up stairs and regard to do we as a council sign this document or do we as individuals sign this document and the argument was from my point of view was setting a preceden for other people to come and say as a council support this as a council support that and i'm really torn right now i want to sign this as a group i absolutely will send out letters and i absolutely will make phone calls i want to make that perfectly clear and i don't know if we would be setting a precedent for that but at the same time it's if there is an opportunity to change that ideal or to stand up for solving this is that opportunity in this is that  it really sucks when families get torn apart period that that's just it and i cannot even come close to remotely imagining if one of my children were taken from me for any reason and i would hate for someone to go through that and like i said when i seen my friend taken from his family it was a pretty sight and it hasn't been a pretty sight because that family is comments like i said it up stairs and i'm going to say it again council has and mr trump burns alluded to it council has not taken stands on things of of such we've got to remember that we were elected by the citizens of the city holland and as a board we would be speaking for the whole of the city we cannot comfortably at this point be it right or wrong be it agree or not we cannot comfortably say that we are speaking for all the citizens that we represent and i think that's the policy issue i'm sorry it is not a policy yet we're going to have be having discussion about this but at this point especially you know there's two things on here mr conference first of all i think is mr peters said  the clean i have no idea what that means this is a draft letter it's not a finished product is regardless of my personal beliefs on this i would not be able to support signing this letter in its present form i think mr peters had a very valuable i don't want to water this down it is an extremely important issue fully understand that mr peter had a very reasonable compromise i believe to make a statement that would be not politically charged that something has to be done it cannot just sit on i could probably get behind something of that nature what is on its present state because of the past practice and because of potential precedent being set here besides my personal beliefs i would not be able to i do think everybody here agrees that we don't want children suffering we know when families broken up and we think that this is a problem and it needs a resolution it's not our job to make it it's the federal level that will be addressing this and as mike said we really try to stay local with what we do and how we do it and where i'm nonpartizan group that tries to serve the people the best we can right here but as everyone has said the there's a large contingent of the people that are suffering because of lack of action about this the whole it's really the whole immigration issue that again we don't control so the i guess the difference of opinion is what's the most effective way to address the federal level but if we could set up a meeting with them and address these concerns and have a longer conversation than a petition i think we could make a much more  impassioned plea with that and i would really like to pursue something like that in in this context so what would you like us we'll have to have a vote on what we've had a motion and a second publicly or as a group one so i understand the hesitance taking a step in that direction brother mike i think i would i would depart from your thinking here i don't think there's ever a time where we will speak for the whole city you know that we're you look to to represent particular wards and hopefully the  of the welfare of the city but it will be a cold day somewhere when we absolutely speak for every voice in the city completely i think what our rich charge is to   i don't think that we're here just to act on the most but i enter generic issues there are points in time in history where i think it it does us to speak on behalf of our citizens and there are times when we should just shut up you know where that line falls i guess is i'm not exactly sure  suggested upstairs a perhaps it's a case by case basis that we make that decision on but you know if you look through history i know that when i get e mails or phone calls about a particular issue i pay more attention especially when there's a whole bunch of them and as opposed to somebody approaches me a church charter or downtown or whatever  or someone and maybe i shouldn't put so much leverage on the you know the stature of one person against another but if someone whom i respect talks to be about something  you but i love you man ok i think there is something to be said that when a message comes from a group like this as opposed to individual communications that collectively that message carries a bit more important i think speaking to this issue in this way we're not asking for anything the surly partisan as far as i can see we're simply asking for our representatives to do something do something that will benefit them the citizens that we know the benefit that they have innately and the benefit that they offer this community firsthand so i think what we're requesting is not a reasonable of them i don't think it goes across as too many lines on my behalf and i know others will have a differences of opinion and i respect that but i think there's you know as  in the bird say there's a time for every season or season for everything or over the goes there's a time for everything i have there are times to speak up particularly with the welfare of our members our citizens at state so i would in this you are all in support and recognize that this is something that needs to be addressed so i don't think that's that's a question i think i would also with dave be willing to sign the draft as is however signature i think it's fine at the end of the day and maybe this letter and i was maybe the result of this letter is going to be another one in return right and that's and that's about all all the impact that it's going to have but i do think that it makes a statement for our citizens and to our citizens that that we are in support that we hear their challenges and we are listening can and that we are willing to do some thinking that and i think this letters is somewhere to start but there's probably more that we have to do maybe we facilitate because of our influence have an opportunity to set the table where there is some dialogue i think directly with representatives that otherwise would not happen and so are we able to facilitate those conversations or the spaces where that can actually happen in speaking about this i'm probably the one board member who walked in today at five thirty on the phone talking to a state representative and hopeful having a meeting with congressional members about this very issue but when i walked into the room and in my packet i didn't have this letter and it's the first time i was it exposed to this particular letter and i don't agree with all the language presented but  percents maybe cleaning up some of this letter a little bit i could i could support it i think it's important for all of us to be standing up as leaders for the people our community across the board and i support this and i would love to see a letter as counsel garcias just mention all assigning and having an opportunity as i mentioned up stairs for us to delay a week or two into another study shows session to clean this up so that we can all all sign it and make sure that we're comfortable with what we're signing i think is imperative but to have six members sign this document and not all all of us like that just doesn't make sense to me so i would support maybe amendment to this if th case or delaying until we can get the language so necessary for all of us to sign thank you scott i would be very happy to have scott or anyone else make an amendment to this love to do that as a group yes i love not just myself but i would love to have the input of everyone on this board to make sure that everybody was called with or in which it's being presented i don't see that everybody is comfortable with the language it's being presented perhaps we can postpone so that's a motion to postpone do we have to act on the last motion first motion to postpone takes precedence ok to second the very act on it so we have a motion to postpone by wayne do we have a second for that study session and then we'll vote on it the sixth of december correct ok now do we need to vote and there postpone it that second and i need a vote on the motion to postpone ok and we can do a voice for it what about all those in favor say  oppose same sign that carries thank you any other motions or resolutions from council scene and we will now after this meeting council will be going into a closed session to review settlement strategy for pending litigation there will be action to follow that close session and also review of our legal opinion so we need now to adjourn this thank you so mayor just one other thing you have a point also what will be going upstairs in a closed session the one item that we are going to be asking you to take action and we'll take action upstairs so we will come back down here good clarification thank you