it please the court my name is robert carlin represent appellate toba nick this appeal is about claim construction how to construe the phrase where in the end a body is administered locally drug in the same disease state that all marker was discussing and modeling in their experiments the but as to what administered locally means according to feel more for specification the borders required to use it and if you look at the old market specification where it describes how to use the drug it gives a long  intravenous injection or infusion by inhalation or trans nasal so it doesn't really say what locally means they're saying what do you do what do you do with the andersen declaration  but that substantial evidence is borel in intravenous methods are necessarily systemic administration interest eco an epidural are normally considered localized message and i would like to hold up my forearm to represent the spinal g which is very presented by my coat sleeve to put it to administer at the dura look means to put it on the dura on my shirt between my to sleep that's why this is considered a localized method locally so isn't that your problem that homogenic is it ministered adjacent to the to the roof and has the injury as opposed to on top of that particular room no it's the because the molecule was affected that way it was evidently a localized method in that if you give the drug in an ordinary systemic way it doesn't have this effect but if you inject it near the back relieve the back pain and he did use from this that the higher concentration there was having an effect so he called that localized administration but he didn't ignore means in the anatomic the severity which you defines as within ten centimeters i would think ten centimeters about four inches right which yes this is on the clubs was talking about that the anatomy when omar got to anything that really implies local he said epidural which was you know not specific enough according to market and so they went to this series to experiment to interpret what local in this mean this experiment is a model of the disease it's a laboratory experiment proof of concept but the claims are toward this laboratory experiment the claims covered ceratin and that's and so you have it's a model of the same but in fact it doesn't ever offer its own claim construction and its breeds and i didn't hear a claim construction being offered during oral argument but the fact that the one of the key words is local right that is correct locally is all over the next application that is correct your and your path and does disclose a variety of terms in dozens it also say locally as opposed to systemic it does your honor but what has happened here is instead of to bennett offering a clean construction to you they have said whatever it means it must in compas what's disclosed in our specification that's what they've done in this case this is the same argument that they made before the board and in board at before the board what they did was they argued that the perry spinal disclosures and and they that since plexus all were local methods of delivery the trip to answer your question what they've done in their specification is referred to lowball but they describe systemic methods that that's true and so it seems to me that the the real technical question that we're dealing with here is how how and how do the expert testimony absolutely and appropriately so what they did in terms of claim construction after deciding where they had to look at was done to determine the word moakley in adjacent so let me let me let me see if describes local administration for example in the series two experiments it mimics the t n f inhibitor when actually nucleus propulsive and apply that to the nerves so is directly at the spot that could be adjacent but if you're looking for a definition of adjacent that's a term that's described in the to been expressed occasion that's not what the claim says the claim says local administration if you look for adjacent and what does adjacent mean you have to go to the to been expressed vacation and any time to panic talks about a term of proximity such as adjacent or in the proximate area or localized it describes it in terms of methods that are systemic that require the drug to be transported to the area where it's needed to act for example if you look at the to been expressive occasion and i'm citing to the appendix version and it's a four twenty six through four seventy one the appendix has about four different copies of to been expressed occasion but that's where the one i will  to if you go to page two of the specification at appendix eight hundred twenty eight talks about localized administration says localized administration for the treatment of localized clinical disorders has many clinical advantages over the use of conventional systemic treatment locally administered medication after delivery diffuses through local capital aries the newest arterial in the lymphatic action to reach the atomic site of papyrology with the board found was that was an indication that it was not at the site where the nucleus propulsive was acting on the nerve roots but somewhere other than that and therefore it was systemic not local administration as we have said from the beginning of the interference to binik is used the word local in a way that is not understood by those of ordinary skill in the arm the board agreed with this dr anderson every and the dictionary different mechanisms that the board relied on to support its current construction theories with us and all marker specification interpretation other examples of this where they have used words a proximity to define adjacent or local is found on page eight when page eight they talk about lines three through five anatomically localized administration involving curie spinal uses and then it goes on and talks about subcutaneous intra centimeters that's like a marathon away in terms of medicine for local administration to get a drug ten centimeters across the body and say that you are giving it locally it also says there like it did on page two so as to allow the therapeutic molecules of consideration here in to reach the spine so you deliver the drug it has you now reliance on it is abandon its arguments and the interference except for this one sentence it says this one sentence must fall within the scope of the claims and it's the sentence that at lines three to four on page twelve that says in another preferred environment injection of the therapeutic molecule to the anatomic area adjacent to the discreation is accomplished by epidural injection well the fourth considered the sentence and dealt with it in break detail in pages twenty two and twenty three of the decision and we epidural alone does not need local because of it it's not far away it can be very far away in fact if you look at the decision the board considered the testimony  expert dr richardson dr richardson said almost epidural deliveries are through a cattle injection that's at the bottom of the spine to use mr hall's that model here that's down here patent describes this this is this is clear from all markers perspective on the claim construction issue to bennett has not offered you an alternative construction they have only said whatever the claim means are disclosure must fall within it and when those who say are disclosure are talking about this sense so when we get to the issue of written description they are they want you to really weigh the evidence of the experts in find for them that's not your job i want to substantial evidence burden they need to show why the why the board's opinion is not supported by substantial evidence as you pointed out dr anderson has quite a lot of testimony in the decision cited that supports the adjacent to the this carnation that's exactly the point if you look at the nesting of this disclosure within all of these preferred in body ments to binik uses that area nation in the context of a subject cheney is injection which everyone agrees a systemic so when they say adjacent to that doesn't mean at the site at all again every time they use proximity words they expand that out to encompass systemic methods that's when you cannot rely on just area adjacent to because they apply  about interim nasal administration is also a form of localized anatomic administration and then it says it shares the above advantages with kerry spinal administration and has the additional advantage of delivering the biologic to the area upper nasal passages directly adjacent to the brain so again it uses that directly adjacent term but it delivers here at the nose for s not because epidural injections can be anywhere from the top added with the word adjacent again adjacent to the herniated disk adjacent to the herniated disk does not mean at the spot where the nucleus for pulses in contact with with the nerve and we know that because they say the same thing about subcutaneous you can't get to that spot through a subject anus injection