to the community and also approval of the wastewater treatment plant generator boiler placement the electrical contractor fortune of that work which is really for me as the projects are even approved any questions from council regards to th any questions or concerns from the public procedures and the recommendations from the secretary of state ok so next up is sitting up there thank you quite a few of these tonight first i want to start by celebrating 'll be bringing that recommendation to your next regular council meeting we're really excited it's got great responses and it will be a big service improvement to modernize the city's site if you were driving down john rusher for bringing that to us we have a lot of events coming up in the next couple of weeks before a next council meeting so wednesday night at six thirty at the senior center is the annual volunteer appreciation dinner we look forward to seeing many people there held at the river walk on saturday as well and then when you see the farmer's market it kicks off its annual season on sunday this coming sunday from ten to the city is co sponsoring you ski portion of discover a jazz fest this year thanks to craig mitchell and his amazing work so that will run from june first through june tenth will be a whole series of events happening both in rotary park and in restaurants  package for employees we anticipate the completion of the transition to happen in september where it's quite a lengthy process to move everyone over and we have a couple we talked last time also trainings for just briefly bratz we've been seeing a lot of communication from port farm about rats please remember the city cannot do work on private property so to the extent that you are finding rats on your property we recommend that you think about how to limit the nesting opportunities and food opportunities for them be in consultation with pest control if that's necessary do think about options that are best for you we would encourage you to look at your homeowners insurance policies often homeowner interest policies will call cover so think about that but what you really want to make sure of is that there aren't good places for rats to nest on your property and that your trash compost is in sealed that we have started marking that album weaver street and it is it looks aggressive and it's starting to get a lot of attention i want to remind everyone that that is a pilot project that was a result of a lot of conversation during the mainstream finalization project strongly from the cybil community that they were interested in a cycle track a two way track so we are piloting that for ten days only and we were really with the idea of putting something out there for the kmita respond to will be lots of opportunities to provide feedback on the people like work don't like through online surgery opportunities directly with staff as well as our partners motion on that effort and we can talk more about that now or who helps bring the message of what's needed from planning commission to those groups and help them bring the information back that's going to go into the play and so i think you'll see members of the planning commission being dispersed and some of those other meetings and that's the thinking and reasoning behind that so trying to create that great communication connection as we move into the clearing process so ok so with that i think we'll turn back towards our regular i commissioners we're thrilled to have been involved in this always district is a municipality we created because of x seventy eight to implements always management mandates that were legislated by the state of vermont and function much like the school or water district one hundred fifty six thousand people and over six thousand businesses we are governed by a board of commissioners who  our mission is to reduce and manage the solid waste generated within the district and environmentally sound offish and effective and economical manner because only employ just over fifty employees i mean five main departments instruction finance to present just a very high level thirty thousand foot view of the budget and then i would like to open it up for questions and comments and concerns i did make note of two issues that were just spoken about so i  will touch on those as well in a general fund we are budgeting revenues in the amount of eleven million one hundred thirty one thousand five hundred sixty one dollars we are budgeting expenses in the amount of ten million five hundred ninety seven thousand six hundred thirteen dollars and we are looking at a very heavy capital year this year we're looking to spend approximately one million seven hundred fifty five thousand dollars and i'll talk about more what the bulk of that is and that is well we are not proposing any increases to the salaries management fee that will be made at twenty seven dollars a ton we are also not proposing any increases at this time to the trash fees at the drop off centers nor are we recommend any municipal assessments such as any pro capita fees so facility we raise the in district meeting the chignon county rate from twenty one dollars a time to twenty five dollars a time and then we raise the out of district feed fifty dollars and that is in direct relation to what is happening in who deals in mix paper has seen reading his drop not even just drop it we were receiving approximately seventy five dollars a tonne maybe in revenue last august and we're now paying fifty seven something to consider as well hops but it does not it does not say in law that you must back out so make sure that everyone knows that there are some some options but that did stay in place with a push back also to july would twenty twenty was the requirement that haulers offer the service they don't have to actually provide it but they do at this point will have to offer it starting july one twenty twenty i don't make sense from people that need to keep it out of the practices how to compass in the backyard we've done a lot of work with urban composting as well as far as people who do live in urban areas there are some adjustments that you might want to make to your bins so we can talk about that as well a host of technical assistance so we are board approved the budget to go out to you all on april twenty fifth so from there it's forty five days that a member committees have to either approve the budget as presented or centers a little more than we normally might in the hopes that we will be able to put money into the stabilization fund and maintain that rate for several years which we did so we knew that we would have any a while more than we needed put that money in the stabilization it takes more water bottles to make a cue now than it did ten years ago almost one half times because the the water bottles and and other packaging is becoming thinner and lighter so there's a lot more  the weight is the same so even though the weight is staying the same we're handling a lot more material and the trash my work asked me this every month why are the numbers going up and it can be any number reduce our exposure there we need to have maybe some fix at cafes you know on a regular basis to get people back in the habit of fixing things so we need to dig into those numbers a bit more and see if it really is just related to consumer confidence i essentially what we've done in the past and we just recently went through this with the farmer's market we had people reach out to the downtown association about the bus stop restaurant and also about the possibility of using champlain the restrooms but they step off is that near the great wall and at the v f w where a ceremony and barbecue will follow city council is invited to participate in the parade in the theory money and barbecue as well we review the application on february twenty first we've been part of that i'm involved enough of c c r p c in the planning process here i think it's important that we develop some other people with that knowledge and have a different and simply technically proficient voice at the table think abby really brings that  on the activity the pool put together with community feedback their recommendation for what they want to see remains the poor think many of you in the room were involved in that process in november of twenty seventeen we got reproval to spend ninety thousand dollars on balance to do the politically engineering to bring that vision of what the community want to see in a pool star into technical details and really understand from an engineering perspective what that was going to cost to the community that was clear engineering it was originally presented to the services commission the pool committee over the this past winter and then brought to the council in april and then again or in march first and then again and able as a result of follow up questions so tonight raise here again to present some answers to questions council had at the last discussion and lay out the next step i think just as a reaction to some commentary we've heard and i want to be clear that the council in their last several meetings has asked us to look at cost per item of the pool and that was really to understand  scale back the project from the community vision perspective we're just trying to understand the full cost of that project and what are those revenue triggers are our pulls we could make to make this affordable project  so i will start with the overview and then we talk through the answers to the questions asked spend per table study thank you and also to see a big crowd here tonight it's making me realize i maybe didn't need to get a babysitter actually there's a lot of small citizens which is very cool to see so he has as a just he said the memo that went out to council it was in response to some fairly detailed questions that came out of the second follow up meeting back at the beginning of april so i think  flow works for you kind of walk through those responses and then kind of questions flow from there so i think the first the first piece that kind of came up in the context there just to refresh memories at that meeting a presented believe  five different potential models for what that pool financially could look like one being as presented from the preliminary engineering just without touching it and then with several tiers of fund raising or outside funding attached to th at that meeting people did ask the council table for some more details looks you know if you were to take and i know this term was not a popular one but for lack of a better one sort of luxury items or items that in the perspective of the group could be funders more easily out of the pool money that's going to be impacted by the tax or impact tax rate what would that look like so that was the exercise that i went through here basically going through and looking at items that would not have a significant long term capital costs of things that would come over time and of costing us more money and also than items that didn't have direct health or safety implications so we talked a lot about the u v filter for instance number one i don't think that's of safety pieces that the engineers can have with their so as we looked through that there were a few tweaks that we made to the model also based on some recommendations some sign and those on of them will dive into kind of the impacts bottom line tax so we did look at revenues christine asked us to kind of take a harder look at that number we had been as we shared throughout the process presenting a pretty conservative revenue number i think it's fair to say we're basically just taking the numbers that we've raised in revenue from years we've just carried that little revenue number as a conservative approach in response to the feedback we got we went back and did adjust that up so we added fifty percent onto the revenues that we expect to bring in again i still think that's a pretty conservative number based on what we've seen in other pools but that was based on taking what had been the rates for entry and kind of raising those up to me or what we actually saw at the  if you look at the chart in your memo the proposed numbers are very very similar to what roland's new pool is charging and that represented about a fifty percent increase so we did scale that number up so any questions of talk in the first presented about how that feature would actually add in the need for additional staffing so despite the fact that in some of these proposals the slide is kind of taken out of the tax impact budget because we expect that would be a pretty desirable fund raising i don't i didn't scale back staffing accordingly so i think to jesse the earlier point in the conversation about pulling some of those things out of the budget wasn't to say we're not going to have a slide we're not going to have this or that it was just to say let's think about those as something we could raise funds for in a different way so it caps the staffing or the operational costs static so that when we have a really successful fund raising effort or we're ready to stuff that all so so with all those things said just to kind of flash back to the original proposal that we worked with the engineers to come up with the total project cost was three point nine one three million dollars  soup to nuts operating and capital that would have met a roughly an eight cent tax increase and an annual impact of about one hundred eighty four dollars two in the year one i've been using year one because that will likely be the highest impact year as the debt service gets paid over time that that number comes down with the exception of a few years in the model where there's capital investments i think it's like years seven fourteen and twenty there's pretty big capital investments so in comparing that number to the numbers that came back when we did some domineering with watson and samson that led to about a three point five two million dollar project  about a seven point six impacts and an annual tax impact of one hundred seventy one dollars and change so quite a bit off the top in terms of the project cost but in terms of the annual tax impact ended up being about thirteen bucks bigger than the next step was to take some of the recommended items off that list that we talked about at the last meeting and sort of model out what that would look like so we were able to get the total project construction cost down to the three point nine three million about a seven point one cent tax increase and that would equate to an annual impact on an average home which for us about ten and twenty five thousand dollars in value on a new impact on the tax rate would be  hundred fifty nine dollars and seventy seven cents so scaling you know point seven million off the top of that project equates to you know roughly a twenty five or twenty five dollar annual impact on the tax bill for that average home and the pas there that's a lot of numbers and math and whatnot and see if there are questions or thoughts i think it's important for folks who may have a fall of the entire thread of this conversation you know to recognize that during the process we try not to set up any barriers to the full committee and terms of putting forth a proposal that they thought best serve the community in terms of taking feedback and also not just from a functional standpoint but also from a potential revenue standpoint which was something that was brought up several times during the presentation of the us and science and engineering as well  exist where the pace of grants exist pools just don't work the same way as traditional infrastructure they just don't there's not as much there's not as much in the financial tools available for them so we're really looking at the tax the financial impact of this through fundraising and that's that's the conversation of we've really been trying to figure out the nice balance of is what's the baseline pool that still functions the way that we think it needs to for the community while also potentially itemizing some of these items that maybe are one hundred percent necessary right war the slide for example that or discussion right now and whether or not those could be attached to some fundraising efforts that's a signal a question and then you after we get past the conversation about what the pool cost or a seam in the thing there's the operation of it in this just looks very different than our last pool in terms of come help us program up who but from what we've seen so far the grants that we've found to be available are in the context of the you know almost a four million dollar project not going to move the needle a huge distance so yeah i think that's correct and with the modeling we can see the increase of fifty percent historical cetera this doesn't get close to aligning with what was still the number from the main   who are here we were looking at a pool in waterville maine similarly sized community but i think as a few folks here point out also some pretty notable differences in terms of demographics sort of peripheral community too i think watervill itself is about twice as big as when you ski but the surrounding area is very stark there's not as much around it so i think we've got a smaller city nested in a bigger region so it's a little bit apples to oranges their annual  operating revenue coming in the door was about eighty thousand dollars we are budgeting here for about ten so again i think as you said throughout that is that that is a very conservative number but i would much rather be surprised in a positive direction than a negative one i don't want to go in and fleet and say we're bringing ninety thousand dollars a year in revenue and have it be twenty i druther say we're going to have ten or fifteen and have it be thirty i just think as we look at best and try to be responsible stewards of we have we've been using the three year one marker is just sort of a way to capture a snapshot of how the comparative but we've modeled all those different versions out over the full twenty year cycle of the pool so again as i mentioned there are a few years throughout that where are pretty significant capital investments that are that are tacked that relate to the specific facility that was designed so we are we are planning for those out into the future so again you'll see the sort of the impact kind of do a little bit of you  so the recommended value engineering deductions those came from the engineers that is correct yes but some of them are not replicated in deductions per council so i'm just wondering why that is because it seems to me that the deductions for council discussion could be additive to the recommended by engineering deductions so there's quite a just yes i think the most notable examples of that are related to that sort of long term cost impact so there were a few in particular finishes that we in modeling the sort of the council recommended model opted to keep in that the value engineer had pulled out and those again were more finished decisions i believe largely related to the roof and the facade that in talking to the engineer would have added useful life to the time in response to what i was hearing from you all last time we haven't kept those in so these are despite the fact that they were recommended by the engineer eliminating them would have an impact on these li somebody who has multiple children you know i think you know you'd season as a forty five dollars this is an attainable for a lot of our community members that you know somebody has multiple children that family pass rate of one hundred twenty dollars an hour i just you know i personally know some families where that would not be doable so i'm wondering if there's been any thought to financial hardship waiver or awesome sort of subsidy model for those families you know especially since a lot of families where that taking is an answer oh yes that was a great question eric thank you so looking at spam and i think point well taken i think as we look at a lot of the user ship out the pool certainly there is a desire to have a sensitivity to cost  u know certainly a lot of the users of the poor kids many from families with lots of children and four dollars what seems small isolation hands up all the time so definitely point well taken i think a couple things there one is that looking at the rutland pool which says here not to believe has a similar demographic to us here and really being mindful about trying to mirror those rates was a consideration again they've seen  they've seen a lot of interest in their pool with those rates on board so i think we'll kind of give them a year or two thankfully their head of us a little bit so they can get paid for us i think the other thing too is departmental a for us a community service is american to this came up a bit during the budget process the season two you were really trying to look at how do we balance the need to generate revenue in our programming to keep the wheels on and keep new programs coming and serve people with a sensitivity to the very unique demographics we have here so i think the short answer is your question yes we thought about it the longer answer is we've not done of deep dive on it yet in relation specifically to this program  we've definitely taken a deeper dive on a lot of our other programs and so i think we've got some models out there that we could we could explore but again i think we've we've tried to really approach this with a sensitivity and not you know i think i think what i did want to do is sort of in response to the water bill pool which had eighty thousand dollars in revenue just going turn the knob until we got to eighty thousand and say we've we've had a success because then again we're going to price out a lot of our users so and i know i mean i think  it's a little tricky to know until the door opens on day one how that cost is going to play and certainly we do a little bit more research on that before if we get to that point but that's why it's as proposed here i think example of water bill and there is one other poor who not can remember where it was somewhere in the northeast that mark was using quite a lot as we're modeling things out and so we've we've definitely done some comparatives with other facilities rather than i think from a demographic perspective specific schedule based on other communities oh yeah i would much rather have one a lot of with what we know the needs are in our community and i'm not saying i'm unhappy with the rates or fees or where they are apt but i personally would like to see some sort of accessible process by which families who really can't make those fees work have some sort of either subsidy or personal and that's kind of where i'm coming from  resident rate there i don't recall exactly but that's exciting we're a little bit below where essex was with their nonresident rates but i can i can take a peek at that but like jesse said i think over time we'll have opportunities to sort of flesh th i think but yes indeed there is a lot of interest in the community to have a competition type pool that would allow for swim team and i think beyond not just basic kind of making sure there's a rectangle that needs those specs on the ground  they're the only other real additional piece was a storage closet that was out on so the building itself is not really necessarily a lot different because of the need to post meets or have some stuff going on there sw this in a different turn i had it you know we were seeing this huge report on quite a while ago and i had more time to look into this and was it looking at like the geotechnical report in there and the information about like what's underneath all you know so there's a big piece in there about there being like clay and still sitting under there and not being able to say with certainty that creating like a new footprint and these new structures or stresses on the ground are going to have stabilisation issues over time i think there's a recommendation in there to do it deeper boring to check for where it is further down or groundwater and i wonder like it did that additional study happened how confident is the engineering firm that we can change this will print is happening mirrors in these two different structure is adding additional or even to say if we have a slide like additional weight there there we're not going to see further problems when we have historically really struggled to maintain the existing pool yeah so first and foremost i am not an engineer any variety geotechnical in particular so take this with a grain of salt in talking in and sort of erector set it in place here it's a much later structure than a traditional concrete pool so i think from a to in response to that concern that was one step that we took and not would require less intensive concrete footings and whatnot underneath i guess the other thing i'd say there is it's a little hard to know it's too late to start digging in the ground where you're running to and so we did a lot of work with the engineer to look at the geo tech there  you know based on the conversations i've had with them over the course of that three four month process they have a pretty good degree of confidence that we're going to be fine i think if we started to go for like an eater a ten foot death then you start to get into some of those more concerning soil types but i think if we stay at that six i think it's six whipped up that competition level dropped from their estimations we're in pretty good shape i think one of the issues that we had with the structural integrity of the pool actually related more to the line or so behind the liner of the hole was it was a cinder block structure and there are a bunch of little cracks in the liner the chemical as water was getting out through that and actually eating away the concrete so anyone who remembers go into the pool you could put in some places pushed the wall you know as much as two feet and that was less to do with a lot of it's less to do with the geotechnical issues and more to do with the fact the concrete had just gotten chewed up by chemicals doesn't you know this vision things happen before we think about cost and the actual technical pieces of putting something together and i continue to hear like outside of these meetings i  the pool reopened and i wonder like how we have gone from like potentially could we not only use the existing you know kind of say that the existing then obviously need to replace the langer of this land or whatever is underneath  pool it was pretty clear at that point that what was there was in pretty rough shape so i think the building itself certainly could have been me put a new code and got gotten used to i think the pool structure itself was pretty degraded we have a filtration a comical system that will no longer working we had a filtration system that was actually a pretty significant health and safety risk it was subtree and that structure was caving on itself i think we were down to i think one and a half of the four filters actually working so so yes we probably could have but i think you would have been looking at a price tag that would have been pretty comparable to what we're talking about here to go in and yank everything out and sort of put it all back together again because there wasn't much in the actual pool that was super salvageable per the act per the recommendations of the engineer so in the other discussion point after reviewing those that we have some sort of strategic vision exam i was sending money trying to fix something that had just been essentially condemns an engineer nine to two point eight million dollars into that structure we have no assurances we do not have the same level of assurance that we're going to get a an outcome that's going to have the the on of what this proposal should have that was you know the conversation i really remember when it was you know it was it was condemned is there anything you can do to fix it in the feedback from them was that's throwing good money replacing what was there versus costing out the community's vision i think the direction we got in this was before my time but the direction we got was doing the peevishly process understand what was needed and then do the pulmonary engineering based on i think it was i think you brought this to us before like you call it a bare bones scenario which i believe was replacing just the existing pool i think that's right and i mean the other stuff and like looking back at those numbers between the debt service and the operational fees it's like one hundred sixty grand a year difference and so one of the other things that i've heard about you know bringing the slide bringing these additional facilities is that there is room for increase revenue but the revenue is not going to offset try to use the buzzer beeper thing as little as possible to folks who just try to keep your comments to the two to three minute range and that's greatly appreciated and gives everybody a chance to speak so if somebody starts have voted upon for the sake of people working on it that we think is got a good chance because it reflects the will of the community packs so we're we're trying very hard i think to be responsible as we can with people's tax dollars and there's never going to be total agreement about what it essential versus nonessential i don't want something like this is just not so we've tried our best with that the other piece that all just also put back is from the very beginning there's been a long dialogue in this community about fundraising the city cannot do fundraising that's not an activity we can engage in our fund raising is coming to voters and saying hey this is what we're proposing in terms of tax rates in other this community a lot of people reached into their wallets and gave five dollars twenty five dollars some people more right to help make that a possibility and some of that is for financial reasons some of that is also for buying and to turn back to the community and the folks who are most excited about this to say what what relief could you provide on some of these items that maybe some residents wouldn't agree are essential and i guess i'm trying to paraphrase why we put those mean this people will yes and so i just want to make sure that we are considering multiple people here doing their due diligence and i think the other thing is quite frankly five and it's just something for me from enjoying the experience you probably the better success rate of actually fundraising for it something that people connect to differently that's that was the thinking along those lines yes ma'am i will we did that very very successful doing that three quarters of the way down we then find out that that's a committee was now going to kind of me a lot of the members felt that they weren't qualified to be on the fundraising committee to raise their hand to be honest we've spent the last nine months trying to recruit you know what we said in conversations with the full committee or no fundraising committee is going to make the construction of a functional functional facility dependent on fundraising that's not a good way to do things straight so we said basically opinions on what's essential versus not essential right you know you ask but on items that in going through the list we said could the pool be created with or without the side of the answer is yes you know we thought about it and said ok this is something we say to people hey this is an opportunity for us to make this you know all last less of the fiscal ask if there's a real desire for the specific feature we're not we're not going with you that you probably got lots of feedback of the important people but our job again is try to create a been closed and we finally got any information to my way of thinking i want to know what is the city's share of this pool it is i'm a new civil pool was not probably home so what is your responsibility to the pool i mean you can expect the fund raising committing to come up with three million dollars for eight or one million whatever that's just not feasible so what is the city's responsibility i mean  you want to put a bundle she loved to the people and do you know if you want this pool would you be willing to pay more taxes for that and if that is the case i personally feel that this bond issue should have gone before the mainstream structure because we were you know in two thousand and sixteen is when the pool closed and there wasn't a whole lot of stuff going on and she said the first meeting with november of seventeen that's over a year before anything was is is not saying hey we two point six million dollars from fundraising to combine the three cities looking at on this proposal for example between three point two nine three some three point three almost million dollars and three point nine million dollars price tag again the question has been how do you what we asked the head of this meeting was bringing us back sort of scaled back options in terms of features are there any features that could potentially be removed and those are the types of items we were turning back again towards potential fund raising efforts to say hey for we end up at a place where we've got to get this down as low as possible this could be a possible fundraising opportunity no point here we tried with a number and say tonight discussing looking at the back and to see anything and i guess i would say that we've had pretty pointed conversations about the timing of the main street vote versus the pool and there were deadlines there that the main street projects that were non negotiable and there was work on this project that i think you know people had different points of view about the timing but the timing of the main street project w fixed in terms of eligibility for certain funding opportunity this is been a more interactive conversation and terms of once we got the preliminary engineering origin it looks like an eight cent tax rate crease i think that cost some of us to say that's a big ask we also know we have a lot of their capital projects on the horizon are there opportunities to refine what this looks like to be consistent with the community vision because you know my belief is people will on a cool in this community if if the visioning process in the visioning process in no way contemplated tax rate impact really it was that it was a very creative you know what is it that we want right we're now in the position of saying you know what is it that our community is willing to pay for and six months ago they were  at the fund raising committee felt like the cool committee felt like the fund raising millions of dollars was possible so you know we've tried to give that process some time to flesh out and see is that possible because if we're going to the community for a bond which is i think we're more pointed and now the question and you know what's the amount that we're going to vote on for and when and that's that's where we are  but it's not for lack of you know interest it's it's really trying to do the diligence required to both respond to the community's interests and having a pool and having it meet certain needs or look a part of the discussion tonight is to see how close these things were and this is really information requests coming back to council so what are there yet in terms of being able to say hey is everybody hold us around one of these specific numbers  will feel about this whole components components being as attractive or contingent upon something other than the these funds so i would say that's probably it at least a meeting or two away in terms of discussions  want i want to point back to something that was stated though several times your main street project in that we've been doing the gateway studies for eight plus years we've been doing the gateway work and vision process for eight plus years we had to start from scratch in this process and go back out to the communion ask if they want to that was not we did this from a municipal standpoint and it was the fairly standard timeline and it's really frustrating especially i know you have if you're somebody who has that sweet spot of having somebody of that age in your family that would really go are you sort of the poor i know which frustrated terms of times but i do think that that's a delicate comparison because you need to recognize that the main street conversation was tied into a bunch of different strategic planning conversations that go way back we just didn't have the luxury of the pool we we knew it was limping along but there was never there was never the same energy put back the issues never been about the poor it is a very good a year now what we're looking at is three different tiers of potential funding and want to include you know we had a discussion about how can we get this down to  jeopardy and functionality would be the smartest thing to do from a professional perspective and then we have the full on all that's just the way it was because so the difference is the almost three point nine million the recommendations for the engineers three has been around one set that's around what we've been asking for and there's a lot of variation in the go to person two percent we had some years that's point seven percent so what that is is it's that difference is a typical for your budget cycle increasing outlets too we just encourage people that from an information perspective please come to primary sources when it comes to putting information out or we're asking questions to you know you know the old never along so this is the public opportunity the chance to nudge that will steer the conversation in a way that you think best reflects what is that you're interested in and it's you can go through in our seats you just can't  synthesize that with the financial information available in the larger context of what else are we doing in the city we're going to have in the next conversation which is about sort of the global walk friends of community services because that's something else we asked about so many here from rain a second about hey we're thinking about this large investment this what does this do potentially other program offerings and what what does that look like from your capability to do global programming outside of  a slash school there is a sequential list of meetings with documentation that was submitted to council there this meeting is not there yet but that's the first thing on my agenda tomorrow morning so that gives you from like  various add on the pieces why for example the slide there were discussions of oh what that slide should be should it be simplified into the conclusion was person who uses pools the serial entry is very attractive because it would allow me to get in a number easily and into a depth that i could feel comfortable the pool is equally important in my mind because we have a high school swim team that really needs a good all of the swim experience so that they can excel as competitors for others i'm very concerned that we're talking about the difference between you know thirty dollars between you know one model them and the next more low especially when i look at the fact that the main street project has yet to come in with any kind of value of the features that you were discussing as potential for the love of a nation or a shifting into a from various remote by an independent receiving that information america's new decision being made in econ this is this is again another opportunity for us to discuss it we're moving the ball forward these things don't get done in one meeting or two meetings it's saying we've heard the last time you gave us information  think concise as possible get gives the monetary now list out the different items that are being discussed on short of providing illustrated versions of it with long budgets i think is a pretty concise way of relaying the information that's available  of that's around about iraq it will be eight point two or seven point eight somewhere in there but it's about one one please about one percent on the tax rate here and that's a pleasant change over time so but i understand people are showing up now we're seeing one one and looking at this that one moment in time that that it can feel it can feel that way there is a very deliberate discussion in this pool being done in a way that says sequential but not competitive in other words we're going to have enough information to make potential a decision on both that's possible and that's that's  it's very specified in language so there's really no time there is this i mean we have got officially two meetings and quite frankly for other issues where we've come up against timelines if you know this body has to have a special meaning  we've we've done that we've made that work before so you know that's that's kind of the next piece of this conversation it's number one what it is what do you want to be if that's what it is number two do you want  impact the start of the construction cycle so so the short answer is no if we were to wait until november we remain on schedule to have the same construction started because of the season is here tearing drawings we need to go through permitting and then we need to build out the work so it's about heres worth of work so either that starts in september to end the construction it's so that process would be done the fall kind of more global purview around human service work in the city so within the nano here there are a few bigger projects that we've had pretty advance conversations about so sort of similar kind of talk on type projects that are here i wan these in preference over the pool it's just again in response to a question is posed from counseling to say here's some other things on our horizon as we think about the work we're doing it's let's put those in the can touch on the x as we're thinking about a cost impact here so  you know certainly one big project that i think probably folks have some memory of in recent years is looking at the library city hall and police department conversation at the brand center so we had a price tag on that projects from a few years mike's campus that was at the time specked out as a two million dollar project that was now six seven years ago so i suspect that that number has changed but those were projects that we had some engineering work done on and had numbers for  you know i do think there brian center just in general is one that's out there that we know as a facility sort of capital investment is in need and i think we've talked at length with this body about just the sort of relative lack of capital resources for purse facilities that's not an area where there's been sort of consistent investment over time i think the more recent councils have allocated some funding in capital which has been much appreciated but i think looking at the system and the needs of those facilities over time i think that will to keep them up to snuff and improving that will require some more capital investments we haven't done a lot of a deep dive there to say it's going to be telling you ten million dollars here five thousand dollars here in the new water fountain or new bench here but those are because park related conversations i think are out there certainly to to kind of just have on the radar and then jumping up and down here but you know because a council question the other piece that i modeled here is this some different operating scenarios again not suggesting any one of these necessarily as the top pick or the top need but just as a comparative to the operating component of the council model pool and of being about eighty three thousand dollars annually just that's the cost to run the thing not the cost to build it and finance it and then there's some comparatives here you know  parts are full time employee at the library fully benefited runs about fifty seven thousand dollars annually so as a comparative you know when there's a rock stop here roughly forty five thousand dollars annually for full time  we've talked at length about the brands that are budget gap and the fact that that's been shifted into the general fund now so that's at the moment projecting as things stabilize to be about a thirty thousand dollar a new one cocked on the tax rate so that a few other pieces here that we've modeled out for consideration largely related to stocking i think as we look at growth as a department that's really the area where we are most most constrained to grow at this point  their specific questions are things here that you would like some details on the target keep that are pretty high level just to compare you know bottom line numbers across questions comments concerns of you know i would understand some of you saying leave the library i kind of cut that one out mentally i think it's right to keep it in the larger context from there should spencer standpoint but we're looking at investment in particular areas of the city while there's a reparation component to the city that's really like a pool boy in the street that's an investment in public safety i'm sure the library yasin that all those other places so they were that i think some of these other same art so i think one of the items here is replacing the good ones and that ends it landry like do we have thoughts about when that really would need to happen or is this all pretty malleable at the moment it's pretty valuable i mean so i think that's really a priority conversation for you all none of this is one that we are currently actively working on that the question we were trying to or the answer we were trying to put forth is if you're asking us how we how what with the pull conversation what are other conversations that could be again kind of tyrus point on the horizon in the future this is the list of those conversations we are not actively working on any of these final design permanent getting out the work of building up the construction so that would have us wrapping up that project in august twenty ninth and then the question for the contractor is are they going year construction site also face start april of twenty twenty that's the concern the twenty twenty construction season the twenty twenty one construction season depending how things go even there opens of the end of twenty twenty one or opens in the spring of twenty twenty two expedite the process but one thing i'll say is they've not used does a lot of the northeast i think there's a little bit of looking at that and figuring out procedurally how best to get the footing set and they want to make sure they do that right so that it doesn't stir shift around bucket around so  so again i think it's safe and of twenty one getting twenty two is a pretty realistic and safe timeframe to get this call i just want to be clear that we're all on the same page sure of her and you could have a you could ever direction after a conversation is going to happen to say hey you know we're all feeling pretty good about option three and move forward that could be better not be the issue and just be make public feedback comes in a lot of different forms and opportunities you know i think the whole idea of this beautiful democracy we have heard is that your public officials are watching listening trying to gauge feedback and trying to make the any way shape or form it's it's when there's question marks in the things we just are and we like to just say hey try to reach out to a primary source on that in the city if you want detailed updates about where things are traded that information they're actually all meetings are warm on there and with with the warnings comes a link to where you can find the genders all the documents associated with the meetings including minutes from past so each time we do a public  a counselor i will see if there's any reflections in regards to the conversation tonight or directional standpoint in terms of what folks would like to see next if there's any gaps in terms of information that we feel like we need in order conversation we move outside appreciate that think you this minute i don't feel at this point that adding new layers in levels of analysis is useful i think we need to make a decision about when they're versus value engineered options of the middle ground or the whole kit and caboodle so it be good to hear from folks in terms of their their priorities but i'm hopeful that we can make a decision in the first or second meeting in june that has this warning of over i guess that's where  come back is these three options again i think it would be good if we could just step through them to the comment back there in terms of exactly what they are just from a presentation standpoint and then decide if i  there is really need additional information needed i mean i think that's a pretty simple produce simple number and just keep in the financial analysis there in front of people in the clarification we can drive through probably perspective a new timeline pieces i think that's the one you know nothing that i heard tonight that if there's any clarification need to add around that it would be appreciated and i do think it would be helpful to try to to still treat actions and yet really clear and you know do is take some of the information to me sort of boil it down to sort of three snapshots and say that's largely what's being considered here's what that means right i don't know what if it's possible that have that document of fund raising relationship is fund raising was not the city's idea and never has been it's always been something that was actively said to us is there is capacity for those there's interest and energy around  this and i think that's a that's a really important staple sequel as we move forward and as a result of these conversations i think tonight's the first time we're hearing that there is really as a council formula that there is really not a lot of confidence around capacity to do that which i think if we if that's honestly where that effort stands is really critical information for us as we make a decision between the last of those components because you know it says to me basically if we want those things to be done we're going to have to do  authority to start moving forward on mechanics of it you have to again come back and vote for a budget in the spring in march and then includes this tax capacity in that budget so i just want to flag that for folks  certain from a strategic level we have now passed that point from our decision making standpoint you know again if the numbers were thrown around in the past by people saying that there is fundraising to pass to do it like a million dollars couple hundred thousand dollars these are not numbers that we asked for these are numbers that we were given and told so without any kind of demonstrated progress on that we're at a point now where we have to context but it was we had a great conversation and i mean you see about how and if the project goes forward how to try and work together on messaging getting information out of communications and supporting the business community as it was forward we want to be sure to have those conversations fix method order this is something that came out of the public hearings on alternatives that we heard very clearly from people don't just tell us that you're going to study bike on we want to see it in the i don't just want to commend you because another some time quick reactions to it taking place right now we're being so quick to respond and demonstrate to the public that we're responding to those concerns because that's what we asked so thank you for doing that so great or get a sense of like what this can look like on main street so the data collection for weaver will be there for traffic counts mukul traffic comes traffic speeds before and after you get a sense of you know and look at the number of flakes actually using it so in we realize you know it's it would be a new facility so there is a factor there of you know people trying you know so it would be we plane a cycle track on an engineering drawing but to see it on the road is very different so we're also trying to understand just operationally is this engineer planned actually feasible on street you know obviously y one question really and it's not either of those activities but just in terms of managing our timeline and our schedule if we're going to receive the complete financing package in august one of the points of discussion we had early on was the need to address our housing  nooses and i know that that in itself is a body of work that has kind of lines associated with it so i see it listed under other efforts but there's a lot of other efforts and i'm just wondering from your perspective how you see that process the dealing with this decision point in august so i probably shouldn't call that something else the reason it's called other and committed to not losing sight of that but i also so i'm just trying to get a realistic picture so i think the i guess all the answer one way and then ask heather to weigh in as well staff person for that question we have heard loud and clear from the council that to make this decision in august or later in the fall says a lot of information that's going to be flying out you that part of that you require that guidance to make that decision that the housing commission is the policy extension arm of your council so your direction to them of gives some targets and ideas the one that is the direction commission for that public hearing with it with a recommendation from you then it moves forward we are not going to be able to adopt new ordinances by august but i don't think that that prohibits the does the policy decision being here's one we prioritized and why because often it's not that the there are the policies that are being done ok so then how do we move from high level policy recommendations from coming from the housing commission to this council to ordinance review you know rewrite is underway because one thing that i'm interested and is sending a very clear message to the development community that they're looking at properties on main street what are the expectations not a you know at a high level policy goal but here's what that means in terms of an ordinance and here's the timeframe that we can expect so that construction doesn't begin and we still don't have you know whatever the ordinance modifications are going to be in place just  so you you have your perspective of what was asked for i have my perspective i didn't expect that the ordinances would be in place as of august but i expected to be very clear about this is the direction that we're going and this is the timeline in which we expect  adopt this whatever changes we're going to we're going to recommend or we're going to approve it it's not a high level policy discussion it's a very concrete set of recommendations around targets and what ordinance changes are necessary in order to achieve those targets but i don't see what the i don't see what value we gain from having high level sort of abstract policy discussions in terms of informing the decision of whether or not to move forward with the project so i think we clearly have different views of  what where the housing discussion going to be by the time we decided alternately whether to move forward with the main street project so the thing that comes from the housing commission stops first at the planning commission  so it's not that there's not a direct line here i think from my perspective and i guess i would challenge all of us to maybe go back and watch those tapes again and watch the conversation  the table to create this hour it's not in the course of providing this to try to send some kind of message to the development community that has a specific agenda to it it's to say here's our housing our own goals and these are the levers we think we can hope to get there and it's not that we voted all the sudden everything changes and if we haven't passed every policy associated with trying to reach the goals that we think those policies will create  is going to happen that sure time i just i think we need to be really clear about there are women have another meeting where we've set realistic expectations on staff in terms of what's feasible to bring forward so this is would i would encourage you to take the time to look through the packages and look at what the housing commission's study and you may be doing in the on some that work next time and then a way would be helpful for everybody to understand the work that's being completed there and i would i want to begin i would again ask everybody to maybe go back and look at some of those conversations about what what we asked staff to do and bring forward meetings and i also know that there's a process to trying to say these are the exact policies that we're going to have that require more deliberate conversation than we can try to force them to squeeze into two and a half months three conversation i think housing in this community and how we stay affordable is the conversation we are going to be having for the next five or ten years i don't think any of this is we come forward with a recommendation we put for ordinance and the next month that we're done with fixed housing i think this is something that it is a process that's going to be iterative and look different across our community and different neighborhoods i think looking so we might want to think a little strategically about what that looks like along main street to address some concerns and then what that looks like more broadly in the community and i guess in my mind how i was interpreted in that is if we can come to agreement on targets which is not only required what i've heard is required for the main street project but it's also required as part of the master planning process and then how we activate those targets on a very specific part of our city i e the gateway zoning code that is a that is a a bite at the citywide housing conversation but i think it's i very hesitant to be able to say we are going to be able to i think we really need to look at this piecemeal and not we're going to fix a portable housing or fix our value as a community around housing in the next two months or six months or nine months or a year i think it's i think these you know in communities that are being successful and growing and have a real identity about who they are these are conversations that go on for years and i think it's important to give ourselves time to have those conversations so i think again in my mind committing to bringing those targets forward what those targets look like and then develop and which is the data that others put together for the next housing commission and then what are the policy levers that we would poll to incentivize different levels of development and then look at that specifically through the lens of main street is something that we could put forward in august but to put forward a comprehensive plan about housing i just don't think that's feasible or in the best interest of the city and i wasn't talking about a plan for housing i was talking about the gateway zoning ordinance that we have been talking about for ever since we adopted it there are questions about whether or not the incentive program is going to work and so you know i'm not going to go back and watch the tapes because i know because they forgot what my intent was in the concerns that i raised and those i think need to wondering when that's going to