first item appearing on the agenda is the approval of the minutes of the regular council meeting of october fourteenth two thousand and thirteen the movie for it we have a motion in a second is there any further reports there are none ok audience comments this is the point in the agenda where any member of the public in the audience can speak for up to five minutes on a non agenda item to anyone in the audience who would like to speak to a non agenda item one observer state your name where you live i used the road daily i am on the paved and that we had turned over in the time and at that point when we turned it over it was great since we've turned it over  just assume everything would stay the rest of the road would stay open as it has been since we've both bullets since we've lived there and i used the road daily my son bus stop is at the end of this road every day so every my son's bus stops at the end of this driveway every day never involved any of us on the paved the end of blayne whether it should or should not be installed should we do this or should not do th not sure what the gentleman's name is i know is couple kids newer to the neighborhood when i mean newer within the last five years what was the reason given for the game there is never any well i mean i guess the question i was getting at is that if it's all our recorded plan then everybody in the plant has the right to use that rug and i don't think they have the right to use it so that  alluding to obviously the legal position that these individuals would have against the people to block the road the question becomes what can the township do about it because if it's recorded and they have rights typically on a private road they would police their own rights in court with the d with the prescriptive easement claim so the question becomes and i think correctly from rome this semester but this plan was basically put together think in the fifty's or sixty's if we were to do this plan today doors because the understanding was in the township approved did we approved it with the streets open the question is what happened back then i don't know and that was my only has it in see i agreed that these individuals would have  by way of your deed by way of just a prescriptive right that you purchased in the eve used for so long and they've left it open for so long but i understand you're coming here not the so you don't have to expend the funds and go to court to get this looking for the township so that is somewhat of a dilemma because we typically don't involve ourselves with private roads however we recognise at least i do and i think the board as well that the public safety aspect of this there is obviously juggling you know not much input the house an ambulance around the fire department access this when the fence is there and i don't even think about the school bus stop that you just brought up as well but i just know in maybe the township could weigh in on this well but again in my mind a plan was approved with the understanding that these roads would be open and if it was today it's if we approve this five years ago then why would say absolutely not they can't do it because there was never done sure there was a traffic study first just an understanding  was a huge boulder that the property owners placed there to prevent people from going through and nobody nobody found objectionable so there was never any action but we also had a similar situation on club here where it's very are involved in that plan which presumably all have rights to use that were there around the plant and some of them i think even mentioned it in the deed that i i find it very distasteful that somebody would take it upon themselves to inconvenience everybody else because they thought that somebody couldn't use their room i would like to see how many houses are from where the  not have agreed with them because the gates rate in front of the his driveway so his driveway still has access down to no other i mean there's one house that's on the dirt road branch which initial question was turn would be do we write them or tell them you need to come down and if they don't respond then can we probably we probably do have standing at least enough to raise a claim to the court that it's a public safety issue and clearly because it's a private road this you know we have a private road this issue comes up once in a while is usually not that many people affected and it's usually not people that live there or just someone that has traversed that route you know thirty years in the engine block so there's some prescriptive rights but we clearly have a at least a legitimate claim for in the township go forward if the board once we could attempt to do so i i think the first course of action just tell them this because it's an emergency situation is a risk  year residence of the years complainants and very well that was probably the safest course mr ball because if for some reason they find the towns it doesn't understand because it is a private road issue than the individuals would be there to champion their discussion so i can really i don't really know why the other than i think his background in civil engineering working on plans and being on the comprehensive plan steering committee as a developer or part of his well his company that he used to work for her hill they did the lakeview square project where juneau growers other than that he was not worked on any other project in the township he works now for scope of knowledge about some of the things that planning would be dealing with was not on the planning commission but you know it would be my preference to nominate franco's or for that position the commission planning comprehensive planning commission and i think there's always a benefit to have people who have different perspectives i'm not sure that i would serve and went to every one of the like  reason i don't know what the rationale was i push it when mr lewis speculated on wasn't speculation i sat there through the meeting in the man was very articulate i was impressed with this knowledge of the community both in the of interviews on the peter's cable channel to raise awareness of the programs we have the need for coaches those types of things and you know to promote sportsmanship work with the speed bumps that we're installing that's addressing some of us do you all see that the parking on the grass problem has diminished i know that it seems like in some areas it stopped but there are still a significant number of people the movement of the speed bump was down at the cross walk by feel five and then they moved all the way to the top of the hill i mean are you at the top of the hill and then they got a clear shot all the way to we're almost done through the parking lot to get here that you had an issue with where they moved at what was happening it was in the middle the road and when there wasn't a lot of traffic they were s parking lot right and when there's a transition practices there's people backing up there's people pulling forward there's there's a lot of things you know a lot of activity there so it's it is dangerous for walkers bikers joggers it seems like of all time and we need a i also like to note that your service to this community goes way way beyond your outstanding service on parker you are also involved in the baseball program president of baseball sushi and i know how much time you put into that  it there is other options as well as for different types of specialty services which you know when we look at it we just didn't feel that that was worth the cost i know that there's a number of people in the audience  make a nice pickup for recycling for some time correct yes and i also know that when my son zachary who's the big environmental us in our house  doing it on the second one or the next one or maybe the one after that but eventually we will be going to the canonised collection and it just seems to me that the opportunity to present soft right now possibility of getting  bed cost of these things don't ever get any cheaper i just think environmentally from our e q the board recommendation and just a long term benefit for for the  car just like a base for the garbage can touch right now there are locations in town where it truly does drop off it so if you're on the edge of the road and it drops off and you can that would be something we have to work with all our work out so this is more premium to do this so part of the cost that that you see in the waste management bid is the cost of those cars so when we gave you the bids we wanted to give you what the most expensive comparison would be so that everybody understood that but if in fact you we do receive a grant for these the in the last year it's actually a couple cheaper to do it my  collection and so i would say in terms of cost it's kind of like a wash it which way you go from the township standpoint the benefit is what other communities have experienced is a tremendous increase in the volume of material recycled and the reason why we should care about that outside of the fact that some people do consider that an environmental and we don't care about well it's an end but if you don't care about it from the standpoint it's an environmental bonus the reason why you care about it is the when you go to dispose of that garbage you're paying that tipping fee at the landfill when so every pound of garbage that you can get out and recycle is something you don't pay for to dispose of so long ron and i'm not telling you you're going to see it in this contract but in the long run the county is going to have a situation where your pain last because you're supposed to place and this was exactly the experience you just are way down in those tiny dues you're all showing up with recycled materials so i would have to agree that the majority of the people in peter's seem to feel that the existing recycling bin is too small and many of them have either purchased another one or purchased the sticker so that they could use some other sort of container so i think that we're all in agreement that we need a bigger recycling the people i've talked to in knowing it would be better or are glad to hear it has wheels and it has a lid but i'm kind of on the same thing with kerry i'm i'm trying to understand from a cost perspective whether or not this is the best thing to do based on what you're saying we don't actually gain money from the recycl and then oh we don't benefit the recycling when it goes to do you do but i don't want to use that as a self employed because we have a well we receive a performance grant based upon the amount of that we recycle that performance at its peak probably was close to eight thousand dollars last year it was thirty nine thousand dollars in a contract that was worth a million dollars that's peanuts that's peanuts and you know it is that forty thousand dollars a year you go down to yes but that would so instead of paying fifty dollars for that car you'd be buying it for five and there is a possibility depending on how things work out the billions of discussion we're having with the solicitor you may be able to buy that for three dollars and thirty two cents depending  out and get rid of those bins one and the other thing just so we're all in the same understanding the state of pennsylvania had pretty much stopped funding purchase of these cars we've offered a novel explanation of why we should do this with evidence the fact that it doesn't brew the quantities of recycling the southwestern pennsylvania the e p a has bought our our explanation and our documentation and has recommended it to harrisburg that we find that now every application that came out of southwest the e p a last year that was that was sent to harrisburg was costs if if i would assume that our current the current prices are based on our current challenge garbage so they were only if we did this deal and recyclables seven i can't tell you one what basis they put their numbers together whether what their assumptions were i can't tell you where you are yet and we would not i don't think mike or i could ever recommend the would be a much simpler disco it would be you're right knew we might it's a ten dollar never to hear it's nine dollars and nine like eighty six cents which is some percentage of the total so i mean is going to come to all of us at some point in time so that mean i don't think we can ever we're not going to get away from that it's just when it's going to come so you know seems like this this great it's a good nd it's not i realize that but i'm thinking that by having the award today that will become a much easier thing to do so with i i think the ones that are going over there are  have room in their or flimsy bins especially knowing that to rain that it would render them non recyclable so i actually think that our in our amount of recyclables would increase significantly and that some of the waste or some of the recycle stream that's going into the dumpsters now will be ending up in these these larger dumpsters i think it's also  wheeled even though it's flat and it might be too large for them to pick up again i could see that i could take a razor knife or or whatever just open up the lid and i can stuff the cardboard in that would be able to be recycled so i think  also the best predictor of the future is what's happened in the past and that can be taken a look at is that about the shale or in pine pine township the way that they have  small step in being able to see and address mr looses comments concerning the buy ability of of a bin being able to be used for garbage collection we're now starting one step just starting with recyclables not doing the manual collection of the regular garbage one could perhaps envision in the future we're going to go to mechanize collection of of the regular garbage and i think by starting starting small starting can see pacifically with recyclable goods it's going to be a good learning exercise for the township to get used to and that's so that's and thank you very much thank you for the idea the one piece that we left out of the whole thing that is the good news of this regardless of what calvin decides to do the the bill to residence based upon either one of these bill beers for next year will not be going up so would either if we get them the grant or not the recognized collection doesn't start until two hours and fifteen so next year we  into the long term accountability for all of the stuff goes to the environment so let's just take that into consideration as well can always be found money i comment waste management just thank you council name is ryan sally with waste management just want to talk about a couple of the issues you guys brought up and if you any questions for me in addition to the talking about the cost of the first year with the containers  that's a question you get and want when you switch over to the automated systems the benefit is at the end of the five years you would own the container so the first year you go to that type of a contract or you switch over to automated you have the cost of the containers and getting them delivered all the residents that's as part of our bid going into your next bid you would already own the container so all of that cost we've got associate with bind and liver and would all be at that point the only cost you have in your bid is i would assume that you probably want to put in something else in there were you'd make up we'd still cover the small cans you have now once that gets filled everything else goes into the trash stream the more options you get people to recycle the better participation you're going to get historically when we used to have to divide your recycle supplies plastics nobody wanted to deal with it when we want to single stream where you mix everything together your participation went up a lot i'm sure you've talked a lot of the other boroughs it's already made this change in the townships and the see i'm thirty three percent increase your first year on some of doubled in years two and three so i think it's a what i wanted to say was i'm here on behalf of john the gore and i'm in a different line of business so i was here we were we to take notes and relieve them back to john so i feel more comfortable if i could do so and then share any information with john the ability to at future paid if the towns you chose to award other services that were that are part of this bid so for instance there is collection of  on the top and some mechanize thing just arose it into the you know the big truck and it gets down to the little factory or wherever they do it on have a while and then you know lo and behold there's the paint thinner paint the reason is that you know she carpenter project manager for geo kinetics the reason we need to use explosives in certain parts is for lack going into the residential areas with our energy in order to get our client the best product we can we need to to the world we're doing is just building lane pictures up by top of each other we're just sticking to just the rows we're not getting a diversity of pictures this is why we need to do it basically if you think of it is a digital camera with digital cameras first came out they were real little pictures it was a good picture but it was a great now they've got these sixteen megapixel cameras and you get really sharp image really good that's what we're trying to give with the application we spent a lot of time putting together an ordinance that requested a lot of things and as far as i can tell it provided everything that we've asked and i think that by staying on the major road right now because these six holes are all waiting on we had virtually nothing else to do for the driller so we released and we will bring the drillers back a week to week and a half before the recording crew gets here so that you was to walk out there you would know what you're looking for you're not going to find it we this is what we do for a living ok it we're very safe we have a company out there to patrol all of the roads wherever we have charges in the ground we have myself in a couple of the guys patrol the roads during the day so there's someone out there all the time patrolling watching this stuff example the closest one would be about seven hundred twenty two feet the one house it's up here on the top you go from there to charge you're looking at thousand feet  application for lasting seismic testing back so to clarify mr sylvester you made a statement that they went out for trucks in the neighborhood developments and things like that however there would be if we approve this part of it people moving through the residential properties where they have made arrangements to do so we've got good we don't have any control over them and you know we're there there are a number i don't know how many you've gotten down but i know we've got a number people call in and  information on that or the people that place these monitors or they employ e s of geo kinetics yes or and and it's part of your hiring process do two three four if it fails three fo america the next item would be a resolution accepting the store water management detention facility in the old trail plant face fifteen this is a plan that we've already i agree with gary that something needs done imo this is also a question i threw out to a lot of the people in my area since i live off of our hill and people all grieve that something has to be done because it even though there hasn't been an accident it's just sheer dumb luck that i well i know but i'm saying that when there's been a few but it's not then what you would think given the volume most of the people smugglers here excited about the idea of a starship stop signs for the four way right now some people are not so wild about the traffic light because of course it's a warm or wall area but definitely everyone wants to stop so i think we need to begin the process and start stop signs and potentially ask whether we could get traction for the is a day care center looking at the corner of galilee in water d m where we've proved office condos at one point we've proved townhomes at another point in which if we change the zoning for that so it will be residential yes and they have a long way to go in terms of meeting all the requirements parking they have to move the sanitary sewer line and you know that's not going to be easy so we may see this project we may not have been dealing with the owners of that colonial modern furniture they took a major hit during the july ten storm so we've been somewhat lenient with them and they think we've gone far enough with them and i maybe not the next meeting but one of the upcoming before the end of the year we talk about the barrels and just start maybe get some discussion about where the process is and what we might be able to do when we might be able