welcome to the select committee on energy independence and global warming for generations now america's universities national laboratories and innovative companies have fueled the technology breakthroughs that have put america in the lead and kept japan europe and other economic competitors in the rearview mirror america's ability to combine innovative brains with can do brawn has meant higher standards of living a huge middle class and increased economic opportunity for millions of our citizens this is our competitive advantage this is what makes our country mecca for entrepreneurs and ambitious workers the world over our technology incubators are still pumping out the innovations but our entrepreneurs and workers are increasingly being blown off the road governments around the world recognize the opportunity of the clean energy economy and are seizing it the world will need to invest twenty six  that is trillion with a t over the next two decades in order to meet our energy needs developing the clean technologies to serve that market is the scientific challenge of the generation harnessing the industrial might to manufacture those technologies and market them to the world is the economic opportunity of the generation last year i went to china  with mister sensenbrenner and with the speaker and we viewed the wind turbines spilling out of factories i returned home warning of these economic missiles pointed at the heart of the u s economy today the clean energy investment auditors are here to share the dismal scorecard twice as much money was invested in clean energy in china as was invested in the united states last year a decade ago china made one percent of the world's solar panels today it makes nearly half of them the fifteen dollars billion worth of solar panels china exported last year was more valuable than america's corn beef and chicken exports combined china is no longer coming they are here they ate our lunch and they are moving on to our dinner and china is not alone germany japan south korea and other countries recognize that dominating the one dollar trillion market of tomorrow requires foresight and public investment today they are throwing the kitchen sink of policies at clean energy renewable energy requirements financing assistance tax incentives government procurements carbon pollution limits here in the u s the longest term federal incentive for clean energy expires in two years senate republicans have steadfastly stood in the way of any and all long term policies to support the manufacture and deployment of clean energy in this country it is notable that we have entrepreneurs willing to invest in u s clean manufacturing at all in such an unpredictable environment some of china's clean energy incentives may be illegal violations of international trade agreements feeling that the future of america's clean energy sector is under threat the united steelworkers union recently submitted a petition to the u s trade representative the case alleges that has used hundreds of billions of dollars in subsidies and other illegal trade practices to undermine foreign competitors and dominate the sector i am very concerned about china's use of unfair trade practices to bolster the competitiveness of its industries and i urge prompt action to address violations found through the u s trade representative's investigation but we must not move forward recklessly on this trade dispute with china in the end competition is good competition is one of the chief reasons that the price of a solar panel has fallen by half in the last two years competition will ultimately make solar energy competitive with grid electricity in this decade but this competition must be fair it must allow american workers to play on the field it must make it possible for us to export these technologies to other countries especially to china and that is why the u s trade rep must do the job that is necessary in order to protect american workers so if we do not act decisively to provide the long term and short term incentives to make america the best place to invest clean energy dollars someone else will so let's get real we will trade our addiction to middle eastern oil with an addiction to asian or european clean energy technologies from the manhattan project to the apollo program to medical research to the internet government investments have and will continue to make america the place where the next great technological breakthroughs happen the only question that remains is whether american industry and workers will ride this technological wave the stakes could not be if we mandate that electric companies use wind energy it will drive private investment into the wind sector of course it will what investor wouldn't want a guaranteed market if we mandate that everyone drives cars with square tires we will drive investment there too but that doesn't mean that we should choosing winners and losers doesn't work europe proved as much with regard to clean energy investment in europe government subsidies drove investment toward renewable energy sources that investment and all associated jobs dried up as soon as the subsidies lapsed just a few years ago president obama held spain as the model for encouraging investment in solar energy today spanish unemployment is over twenty percent is that really the model we want to follow europe proved that jobs associated with clean energy investment will last only as long as the government pays for them democrats couldn't get cap and tax through congress so now they are trying to circumvent voters and accomplish the same thing through the epa their argument that if we don't force investors to spend their money here will spend it abroad is wrong the reality is that the technologies the democrats want to mandate will drive the cost of our energy up which will drive more manufacturing jobs overseas given the choice between one forcing investment toward today's political darlings or two supporting sustainable market tested businesses i am going to choose the latter every time during the coming months the american economy will be at the mercy of several environmental regulations from the obama administration these regulations will not generate jobs they will generate significant costs for the businesses that create jobs epa's endangerment finding which would allow the epa to regulate greenhouse gas emissions is the most widely followed and probably the most onerous example unless congress stops it these regulations will put epa in charge of the u s economy epa would target more than one point three million commercial sources which the epa defines to include office buildings small businesses schools churches prisons and similar structures  estimates that an endangerment finding that doesn't include legally suspect tailoring rules would cost small entities more than fifty five dollars billion the heritage foundation says that it would lead to seven dollars trillion with that under the endangerment finding the epa was going to have to regulate in a command and control way which will probably generate even more uncertainty this is not the only economic threat posed by the obama administrat n the president is proposing tax increases on energy as a part of his latest fifty dollars billion stimulus plan one expert estimates that these new energy taxes would cost over one hundred and fifty four thousand jobs regulations boiler mact these regulations will set emission standards for hazardous air pollutants the council of industrial boiler owners released a study last week that showed exactly be threatened with regulations like these the entire american economy is threatened with unemployment hovering around ten percent america does not need more job killing regulations america needs congress to focus on creating jobs and economic growth in our economic system it is private investors who take risks financial success is the potential reward if investors believe that renewable energy sources are the future then i encourage them to invest in these markets it is not however in america's interests to mitigate investor risk by guaranteeing them a market it makes sense that a democratic congress that responded to our economic collapse by socializing losses will now seek to shift the risk of investing from private businesses to the government in today's hearing the majority is effectively arguing th government should bet on winners and losers so investors do not have to the model is backwards and reflects a fundamental disagreement on american capitalism while i will gladly work with democrats to lower taxes  other disincentives for investment i cannot support a model that i believe is at odds with how our economy works i thank the chairman and yield back the balance of my time the chairman i thank the gentleman the chair recognize the gentleman glass tubes that are twisted which helps in reducing the amount of energy needed about seventy five percent less energy requires a lot of hand labor and that hand labor of course is infinitely cheaper in china so a unique american invention is now being manufactured almost exclusively in china and all of the people in needed and it is my hope that this hearing this morning will allow some additional information to be brought forth that will inspire the great ingenuity that has made america what it is  is the chief executive of bloomberg new energy finance he is an experienced venture capitalist and entrepreneur who has helped build more than twenty five companies we welcome you when you feel comfortable please policymakers understand the economics of clean energy i built a team of one hundred and forty experts around the world before we were bought at the end of last year by bloomberg the financial information provider i will divide my remarks into two sections jobs policy and international competition if we can move to the first slide as you can see from my first slide global investment in new forms of clean energy surged from under fifty billion in two thousand and four to over one hundred and seventy dollars billion just four years later these figures exclude traditional forms of lower carbon energy large scale hydro natural gas and nuclear though i would be the first to agree that the will play a significant role in the energy system of the future in two thousand and nine the volume of investment dropped by seven percent to one hundred and sixty two dollars billion as the sector was hit by the financial crisis at one point valuations of clean energy stocks were down from their peak by around seventy percent before recovering some of their losses it is worth noting that they are still double what they were in two thousand and three a compound return over the last seven years of just under ten percent per annum the impact of the crisis on the industry could have been worse and it will be tempting to think that the green stimulus programs around the world were the major factor in staving off disaster however although we identified a total of one hundred and eighty four dollars billion of such funds allocated for clean energy alone the fact is that in two thousand and nine only nine percent of it reached companies and projects in need the world's providers of concessionary finance the ifc european investment bank brazil's bnds and so on were much quicker in responding to the crisis increasing their lending from just seven dollars billion in two thousand and seven to twenty one billion in two thousand and nine the role of these multinational institutions and development banks has often been overlooked and these figures do not include the chinese banks their provision of cheap finance to manufacturers and developers has been a major factor in driving surging investment there by two thousand and nine china is absorbing nearly three times the level of clean energy investment as the u k the or spain in just the past five months the china development bank has provided twenty seven dollars billion in concessionary finance to chinese wind and solar companies china's leaders have supported the sector not only by providing cheap finance but also by creating domestic demand on a grand scale setting local content rules maintaining tariffs on foreign imports as well as of course maintaining undervalued currency before we become too pessimistic about the state of clean energy in the u s we should recall that it remains by far the world's leading venue for investment even in clean energy technologies s companies spend more as a percentage of revenue on research and the u s stock markets continue to attract public offerings from companies around the world however there is no question that the period two thousand and seven to two thousand  saw asia take over from the americas as the number two region of the world for clean energy investment and when we compile the figures for two thousand and ten we will see that asia has eclipsed europe to take a global lead now if i might turn my attention briefly to the question of u s policy those who deride the u s for inaction are not correct not only do thirty states have clean energy portfolio standards but there are also significant national programs such as the renewable fuel standard increasingly thousand and ten what is missing is the sort of consistent policy framework that has driven the development of clean energy first in denmark germany and spain then china and now the other major economies in two thousand and eight the south korean president mister lee myung bak presented a plan to cut the country's carbon emissions by thirty percent from business as usual without jeopardizing growth the korean government will be investing two percent of gross domestic product over the next five years and leading korean industrial companies have responded by announcing investments of over eighty dollars billion between now and two thousand and twenty contrast this with the u s where the industry's production and investment tax credits have in the past been allowed to expire every two years a highly effective arra program may not get extended and in california proposition twenty three is targeting the repeal of a two alone amongst the major economies u s negotiators had to make a commitment under the copenhagen accord to cut carbon emissions without national legislation in place to deliver it it was winston churchill who said the americans will always do the right thing once they have exhausted all the alternatives i have no doubt that the u s will at some point wake up to the strategic necessity and growth opportunity offered by a shift to clean energy i only hope other countries will not in the meantime have established an unassailable industrial lead many thanks for your patience in listening to me the chairman thank you very much our next witness is doctor viswanathan he is a general partner at new enterprise associates where he focuses on energy and growth equity investments we thank you for being here doctor whenever you feel comfortable please enture capital firm in the country with eleven dollars billion under management through our thirty years of history we have funded over six hundred and fifty companies and have had over one hundred and sixty of them go public our fifty largest companies have created over sixty five  revenues and have created hundreds of thousands of jobs in this country today we have a global footprint with offices in india and china and roughly twenty percent of our committed capital targeted at emerging markets in the past the u s vc industry has played a pivotal role in developing industries such as biotechnology computing medical devices semiconductors telecommunications and the internet we deploy our capital in rapidly expanding companies which have the highest potential for long term economic growth and job creation according to the national venture capital association u vc backed company revenue has equated to more than twenty two percent of u s gdp and over the past three years alone vc backed companies have accounted for three times more job creation than the private sector taken as a whole today the energy technology industry represents one of the most compelling investment opportunities in the history of venture capital i serve as the co head of our energy practice overseeing more than thirty portfolio companies here in the u s that have raised a total of two dollars billion in capital our portfolio includes investments in sectors such as solar wind nuclear advanced battery smart grids electric vehicles and energy efficient building materials regarding the current u s clean tech landscape the u s has long been the home of great innovation in clean energy technology which continues to present a compelling opportunity for both entrepreneurs and venture capitalists though the u s continues to be the home of the world's best clean energy innovation the u s has lost its leadership to china japan and germany in clean energy manufacturing deployment and is challenged and threatened by emerging economies such as india south korea malaysia and the philippines i can say that from first hand knowledge as i spend about a third of my time in asia trying to understand how these economies are doing what they are doing in clean energy these nations have outpaced the u s in recruiting incenting and developing domestic manufacture of solar wind and battery technology we are not the market leader in producing and supplying this high growth industry and have ceded our historic leadership in manufacturing of these key technologies to other nations as one example the u s market share for solar manufacturing has fallen from forty five percent in the mid s to roughly five percent today prior to the recovery act this paradigm of developing innovative technology in the u s and exporting manufacturing to poor nations has been driven primarily by a significant imbalance between u s and foreign tax policies and incentives contrary to popular belief low labor costs have not been the most important variable in this equation up front manufacturers incentives long term tax holidays and end market incentives have been frequently as important if not more important variables influencing u s companies as to where they should establish their manufacturing facilities incentives from foreign nations have often totaled as much as forty or fifty percent of the costs of a new manufacturing project in addition healthy demand side incentives such as national renewable energy standards feed in tariffs and direct government loans and tax credits for the deployment of clean energy technology have made relocating u s manufacturing facilit overseas even more attractive without competitive incentives for companies to stay in the u s this nation's best manufacturers have had no choice but to look overseas to remain competitive in their industries the result has been a loss of both direct and indirect jobs a loss of intellectual property and a loss of economic growth here in the u s for one of the fastest growing global industries of the st century in describing this trend i must remind the committee that venture capitalists and entrepreneurs are by definition optimists i believe the u s can be a leader in clean energy manufacturing  deployment and i have witnessed this firsthand we are not giving up on the american entrepreneur and i hope you won't either i am grateful to this committee and the current administration for recognizing the need to level the playing field for u s clean energy manufacturers with the help of the tax policies and incentives put forth  this nation's best energy technology companies are expanding their domestic capacity reopening and retrofitting closed factories rehiring and retraining new workers and rebuilding local economies depressed by the great recession one of the most important policies in restoring american three states and was oversubscribed with requests of over eight dollars billion in projects four of our most promising companies were awarded this credit and were able to expand manufacturing here in the u s creating jobs thanks to your efforts in the recovery act one of these companies was one of our companies they were able to expand their solar manufacturing from thirty three megawatts to one hundred and seventy megawatts in norcross georgia hiring an additional sixty workers and creating more than one hundred construction jobs in an economically suppressed suburb of atlanta this congress has put forth very important legislation which puts a price on carbon putting a price on carbon by definition will reduce risk for all energy markets decreasing the cost of capital and increasing investment in renewable energy we believe this is an important policy for the u s to continue to attract capital to fuel the energy needs of our st century economy growing a strong domestic clean energy manufacturing industry requires competitive supply and demand side incentives and policies in order for the u s to be truly energy independent in a world with clean cheap renewable energy we need to reinvigorate our manufacturing base we can't substitute our dependence on foreign oil with batteries solar cells or wind turbines made overseas as i have discussed one of the most important pieces of the recovery act was the section c advanced manufacturers tax credit in addition demand side incentives such as the one thousand six hundred and three grant program for clean energy deployment have been critical to sustaining a healthy clean energy economy for u s manufacturers we need to make these tax credits permanent and refundable as put forth by members of this congress in addition we need focus on scaling up and commercializing this country's best technologies through public private partnerships countries such as germany japan and china have all dedicated funds to scale up the commercialization of their technologies we also need an effective national renewable electricity standard and energy efficiency standard with an incentive system for utilities to move forward without delay today thirty states have already adopted statewide renewable energy standards but those policies are at risk should the federal government fail to act with certainty to adopt a national standard in closing we have never seen a greater site wind power and small scale wind farms typically less than twenty megawatts but could be as large as one hundred megawatts locally connected to the distribution voltage close to the load our products and people are focused on making nordic windpower a leader in this segment our proven two bladed technology provides for less weight higher reliability ease of installation and operation and most of all the lowest cost of energy compared to traditional designs our story is about technology that was born in sweden a company that was started in the u k and today we are a u s corporation focused on a very interesting and growing segment within our domestic w business we formed the company in late two thousand and seven as a u k limited corporation we have headquarters in berkley california an assembly facility in pocatello idaho and an engineering unit in the u k last year we incorporated nordic's parent in the u s as a delaware corporation we employ approximately forty people that is double what we had at the start of this year and we will double our employment again within the next  there are many more people employed within our supply and installation partner chain each of our one megawatt wind turbines provides enough clean electricity for the annual consumption of two hundred and fifty to three hundred american homes and reduces three hundred tons of co emissions we acquired the turbine technology in sweden which was the result of a long term rd prototype program which was sponsored by the swedish government universities and private entities at a cost of about seventy five million we have invested well over ten dollars million in further improving that technology for local market needs since late two thousand and seven we have completed three rounds of financing from venture capitalists in the u s the u k and europe for a total committed capital investment of about fifty eight dollars million we are the beneficiaries of two recovery act provisions in july two thousand and nine the company windpower and for our future development and it gives us the wherewithal to create jobs invest in the supply chain invest in tooling to become more efficient and to offset some of our technology development costs it is a loan we have to pay it back to date we have not closed on this loan but we are working diligently with the doe to expedite the closing of the loan which as i said is critical to our development it is our view that this program enterprises like ourselves we are also the recipient of three dollars million in advanced energy manufacturing tax credits the c program that doctor viswanathan mentioned this money will be used to expand and re equip our manufacturing facility this incentive will have a positive impact on our cash flow in the future when we have a tax liability my point is to date we have not deployed one dollar of the recovery act provisions but we intend to and are grateful for the awards that we have regarding our location decisions when we started in two thousand and seven we determined that there were three principal markets the u s europe and china  china was saturated with nearly one hundred domestic suppliers and jvs that are competing predominantly on low cost and low margin and secondarily on quality and reliability this market could be especially challenging for an  entry foreign company like ourselves we saw limited opportunities for new entrants into the slower growing european on shore wind markets thus the strength of the u s market's growth and potential for success was an obvious entry point for nordic windpower and in particular the community wind sector which was relatively unaddressed by the major wind turbine manufacturers the company is in the process of establishing and relocating to a new center of u s operations in the mid west wind belt we expect that employment at that new location will increase to two hundred and fifty over the next five years and will require at least eighteen dollars million in investment to say the least wind turbine manufacturing is capital intensive where significant amounts of cash can be tied up in the supply chain for working capital and in equipment to manufacture these units as such at an early stage company like ours a large emphasis is on near term  cash value of incentives being offered at the local state and federal level we started to deliver and install wind turbines this year and we expect to deliver and service over one hundred wind turbines over the next two years totaling nearly one hundred and dollars million in sales revenue our five year plan includes new product introductions and shipments of more than seven hundred and fifty units we will deliver and install our sixth n one thousand wind turbine this year at fort  and installed in a project in latin america with the made in america stamp of quality on them in closing i would like to provide some recommendations if i may  the opportunity to provide testimony on the global clean energy race in my role in the assessment management division of deutsche bank i coordinate a research team that looks at the investment opportunities that climate change and associated clean energy technologies offer around the world since we in asset management started issuing educational white papers on these themes in two thousand and seven the basis of our investment thesis has been demographic pressures on resources and environmental externalities as identified from scientific sources combined with energy security and economic opportunity which has led to government policy response at all levels creating new technologies and industries as companies respond as we sit here today the u s federal and indeed state governments are at a crucial cross road in their policy stance on clean energy whether to take action to deepen and extend policies or will they fall behind other countries around the world the stakes are high in terms of energy security new jobs and industries and the climate  s context policy at federal state and local levels are all important this year in the united states has been a challenging one for those looking to invest in these new clean energy industries on a longer term basis uncertainty abounds at the federal level given political complexities there has been no energy or climate bill passed out of the senate to complement the comprehensive approach taken by the house of representatives in passing the american clean energy and security act that directly tackled climate issues and provided significant funding to clean energy and energy efficiency at the same time the most comprehensive climate and clean energy provisions of any state are under threat from california's proposition twenty three which seeks to suspend the state's global warming solutions act and would have a significant impact working for investors as an asset manager these uncertainties are discouraging to capital deployment in the u s in the long term we have formulated a simple but fundamental framework for assessing regulatory environments around the world certainty refers to knowing that incentives are financeable in tech terms tlc should result in a lower cost of capital for projects while still delivering a fair and market related return to capital for instance i believe that u s renewable policies could include more elements of tlc state level renewable portfolio standards set targets for near deployment however in most cases these do not have enforcement measures nor penalties to ensure they are financed renewable energy projects have therefore relied much in the short on the complementary investment tax credit and production tax credit equity programs to get financed due to lack of longevity this has produced an on off pattern in renewable deployment since the financial crisis the tax equity market has not been strong and so the american recovery and reinvestment act of two thousand and nine introduced the section one thousand six hundred and three treasury cash grant this indeed has been successful in generating projects in the past year especially when combined with the advanced energy manufacturing tax credit countries embodying tlc in their climate and energy policies and achieving capital deployment as a german bank we have knowledge of the german experience in particular in a recent paper we looked at the major elements of a strong policy regime in the passage of the tlc however that is clearly open to a great deal of debate in the senate a number of bills have been proposed indeed even without a carbon market a comprehensive and strong national renewable  opportunity to testify and share our perspective i applaud the committee's commitment to addressing these important energy and climate issues this is not just a matter of good policy for the united states but it is a global movement happening that is creating economic activity in a race to chairman let me apologize to the panel i have two other committee hearings that started at ten o'clock homeland security and financial services one is here and one is in another building so i apologize this is but large chinese windmills are selling for about six hundred and eighty five dollars per megawatt of capacity in the united states it is about eight hundred and twenty five dollars megawatt of capacity so the chinese are able to sell it infinitely cheaper that is probably because of and they probably violate some wto rules but in addition to that they are getting government backed loans to do the work and when you combine that and they are doing land deals there is a chance that china could suffer the same fate that hit us in december of two thousand and seven at the beginning of the recession which is the collapse of the real estate market so their plants are connected to land deals and the government is backing the loans do we have to wait on a potential collapse do you think  chinese economy before we have a chance to catch up or is there something that we can do to not only catch up but to supersede the chinese although a large amount the majority of our parts are sourced here in the united states a fair amount of the value is today imported that was the result of a very constrained local market here in terms of the supply chain in two thousand and eight and two thousand and nine when we had a installed however we have also seen that it is more than just the product it is the process and the people behind that products and how these products are serviced over the twenty years that they are expected to operate amounts of taxpayer dollars at this time because we need to concentrate on reducing or eliminating the deficit so every discussion that surfaces is going to have that as a they see the need they see china forging ahead korea is about to start europe and actually do see the need to take action and then the issue that you raised specifically around the deficit is one that i think one can deal with because i think th are ways of designing policy that don't just require checks to be written by either federal or state governments so renewable portfolio standards if they had the appropriate teeth would actually achieve a lot of that it is not necessary just to incentivize just to pay money for the good energy you can actually mandate a volume and then let the market decide how to fulfill that but if you go that route then it does say if i were in your shoes and discussing it with these other folks is that it comes down to a few things it comes down to job creation global competitiveness and energy independence if we have these incentives jobs will be created here if you don't have these incentives for sure they are going to be created elsewhere here is what the frightening scenario is and i can say this from traveling in asia these economies they have speed and capital and scale and they exercising that in the manufacturing side now that they are getting leadership positions on the downstream part of these clean energy technologies they are doing something that we hadn't anticipated them doing and they are going upstream and they are starting to innovate once they start innovating then bulwark our strength our fortress which we have had for hundreds of years which is innovation starts getting compromised so i think with while the short term is obviously to focus on the deficit i would encourage everyone to start thinking about intermediate and longer term because that trend empirical data suggests it is happening it is happening in solar it is happening in wind it is happening in batteries it is happening in electric vehicles so that is the fear that my partners in our industry face when we look at these to decide where it wants to spend and tax within that balance as it brings the deficit down and how important it feels that being on the front end of the clean energy race really in terms of its long term competitiveness so it is a question of priorities and  that this is a strong priority i think the second point bringing up what michael said was that there are different ways to construct incentive programs some run through the budget some run directly into the rate pay base and essentially a lot of the european  deploying say solar against coal but of course what we the wider debate is what are the externalities what are the real costs of those technologies of those fuel sources and that is when of course it gets more difficult because we are talking about would like to say is that we hear a lot about how this is just a lot of subsidies and keeping the market going when it should just be doing it itself i think the point is that we particularly see these as would like to call them incentives to scale essentially these are new industries scaling up every new industry really big industry you go look at history gets some help from government when it is scaling generally and so we know fossil fuel industries around the world by the way have between three and five hundred billion in subsidies which is calculated by the iea so it is not a level playing field anyway and secondly what i would say to you is if you think about it what we are trying to do is incentivize the scale are now reflecting then we are going to see grid parity against the fossil fuels within three to five years maximum so we keep talking about oh always subsidized no these are incentives to scale to develop industries to make the clean economy work and you are right at the end of the day the next five years i think the next five years are very crucial because grid parity is sort of coming as these industries build and during that process have you incentivized your own that you might want to and i think that i would probably start by talking about the risk to the u s economy is not going to be defined by the odd program here or there and a few billion more or less of this or that grant program or loan guarantee the issue that really is at stake here is whether the u s is going to be a price taker on energy in its economy for the next two has happened as u s oil has depleted and imports have gone up and up the u s is a price taker on energy and this has been at the root of a number of different episodes of economic instability which actually destroyed enormous numbers of jobs along the way and it is because the u s is a price taker on energy fundamentally now you move to these technologies and i think and the analysis that we do and my fellow panel members will confirm that these energy technologies will become cheaper in the long term than fossil fuels and so the u s has an opportunity so the world will shift to these technologies it won't be fast we are talking decade than about the desirability of doing that and the evidence that perhaps could contribute to that is evidence around the economics of this stuff the last five years has been very unusual because first of all the amount of demand that suddenly arrived in the industry overwhelmed the supply chain from two thousand and four through to two thousand and eight the price of clean energy went up not down the long term history is it comes down there is an experience curve this stuff is driven by developing technology developing logistics developing supply chain developing skills developing financing mechanisms and so on and the price comes down and the last two years we have seen that really we seen the costs come down in a way that has caught up with those trends and i think that when you start to delve into the fact that you have fossil fuels getting more expensive and you have fossil fuels causing accidents like what we have seen the tragedy in the gulf coast that we just all lived through and then you contrast that with the costs coming down and you can provide data on that this is something that yields to analysis then i think that maybe the debate moves on from whether we have this program  that and is this just tax and spend or is this just a subsidy and will it just stop and the fact that spain's solar program blew up because it was poorly constructed spain's wind program certainly didn't and germany's so program didn't and china's solar and wind program certainly didn't and brazilian ethanol programs certainly didn't there are plenty of examples one can bring to bear that back up this thesis that this is the future of the energy industry and america really needs to get into the  and your answers have helped to lay out the challenge for america and a couple of you mentioned this challenge to ab thirty two in california you mentioned that there is now an attempt to repeal the clean energy laws of california and therein lies our challenge because that attempt to repeal the clean energy laws in california is being financed by the koch brothers tesoro and by valero three companies with oil refineries in texas so texas is financing texas refineries are financing an effort to repeal california clean energy laws and so  talk about what is at stake in california in terms of this battle over ab thirty two and what it represents if that law is actually repealed by these oil refineries in the united states  california's other green laws but essentially everyone would assume that that would put a very major stop on the clean and green development in california and i think as was pointed out the signal effect figure out why they would be opposed to it the oil refining industry clearly has a stake in putting an end to this clean energy revolution not all of them there are some that are willing to make the transition but these three companies are clearly intending on keeping us dependent upon imported oil on the one hand and not putting in place a domestic policy that challenges chin terms of the manufacturing of the new technologies that inevitably are going to be deployed here in the united states if for no other reason than states have put on the books their own laws that are going to require renewable which is the underpinnings of a lot of these technologies has grown up it used to be science projects in universities we spun them out of universities we helped scale them and guess what happened that happened three to five years ago in that period of time you had an economic meltdown you had capital that  fled the system you had china with their commitment and resolve take over and so you keep getting body blows and this is yet another one so this really doesn't help us at all in what we are trying to do which is take these technologies which have actually come of age and this is when you want to press fast forward and get into that next level you know these negative incentives can be disastrous mister markey do any of the rest of you wish  i think one aspect of this which is that even with money from oil companies it wouldn't be threatening there would be no chance of success if they were not tapping into a strain of concern and skepticism amongst a proportion of the population and so i think having except that it would be catastrophic it is something that definitely will set the industry back considerably perhaps some thoughts on  what could be done to create a protection against that because i think that the debate has become too much about subsidies or not mister markey just so i can say this you know the koch brothers also finance tea activities and it does tap into something that is quite deep because seventy percent of tea party members do not believe in evolution so to the extent to which they don't believe in evolution and they don't believe in clean energy i guess they are tapping into something the question is are they tapping into anything that is valid scientifically and if they pour millions of dollars into that effort do they drive an ultimate result that is completely at odds with everything that we know scientifically and technologically that we should be advancing as a strategy in our country so i understand what you are saying that you are tapping into something but i just want to define debate on those issues then while you are looking at the people who are reflecting what they are reading what they are hearing the questions that are raised you have to understand that it all goes back to these oil refiners that are financing these efforts and not necessarily to advance the goals of denial of evolution but rather to use those people as a way of then killing things that they believe might interfere with their own economic objectives which is the continuation of massive importation of oil into the united states from the middle east that they have the opportunity to refine so i don't think again that is a complex formula i think every american every thinking american  you know there are new supreme court decisions that actually allow for a masking of who is financing much of what is going to be going on in america so you have almost the worst case scenario you know where the people who have an which they have the opportunity to refine and to spew it out into the atmosphere so i just want to make it clear that the political terrain is not such that it makes it transparently easy for the voter to understand in fact w one could try to develop to oppose that the money that is being spent on the repeal campaign and that is california's technology community  also those who people need to understand that this is the way to create jobs and wealth and prosperity so to counter this idea that all it is is about increasing taxes and giving away money to technologies th electrical system more broadly because if we are going to integrate these large quantities of clean energy then there are all sorts of other industries particularly around telecoms and information technology who are going to benefit enormously and to a certain extent they are sitting on the sidelines and not getting involved in the discussion and i think that the people in california and elsewhere don't necessarily understand just how many jobs are required if we start building out the grid and we start integrating these technologies very broadly into our lives we saw what happened with the internet which again it was funded originally through government spending the development of it it then went viral in the economy and it created hundreds of thousands and then millions of jobs in very unpredictable ways ways that could not have been predicted when the first  appropriations were made to experiment with or to build out the first implementations so i think there is a constituency that needs to be educated as a counterweight to those who suggest that we should do nothing and simply cut taxes and walk away from this problem bill number one was to create an eighteen inch satellite dish industry which the cable industry opposed because they didn't want the competition but that put pressure on the cable industry to deploy even greater capacity second was moving over two hundred megahertz of and ninety three that created the third fourth fifth and sixth cellphone license in the united states they all went digital and went to under ten cents a minute the two incumbents who for this purpose would be the oil anticipatable not in terms of what they actually do but with this incredible additional broadband yeah we are going to create a couple of million new jobs that was my strategy back in the s i knew what i wanted to accomplish but you needed new public policies because the incumbent two companies weren't going to move rapidly in that direction it is always good to have a monopoly or duopoly in any marketplace you can divvy it up fifty percent apiece which is a good business if you can get it so  we need to do the same thing here and we need to do the public education that explains how these new jobs are going to be created for a new economy and of course they are going to be created but they will in china they are going to be created but they will in germany they are going to be created but they will be in other parts of the world and we will inevitably wind up importing them into our country that is our challenge so i have a chart here that i would like you each to comment upon  y lower in terms of its costs and they project that by the year two thousand and twenty it will be at the cost of coal if not sooner mister fulton and others have pointed that out it could be sooner and that once you hit the cost of coal it could almost by two thousand and twenty because of the developing world and their need to install new energy technologies could become seven percent of all electricity generation in the planet now again you have to have a little bit of vision here on this subject because when we were basically moving over the spectrum for the third fourth fifth and sixth cellphone license our goal was of course not just to lower the price here in america but to create a new global industry who would think that in two thousand and ten there would be cellphones in villages of africa and asia and south america that would be the markets well you first have to have a policy that develops the products that can then open up these markets and these countries could jump the wire line revolution and go right to cellphones which is what happened well the same thing can happen here with photovoltaics you don't have to build out that entire electricity grid so that is kind of the vision do any of you want to comment on this is professor emanuel sachs at mit he is the guy who developed the technology that was used by evergreen because we are not paying you to get off the curve we are paying you to get on the curve and that is why i call them incentives of scale there is a strong signal this is a temporary incentive to get to scale get your costs down and they try to influence the direction of the electricity once something reaches seven percent of global electricity production that is a great economic opportunity and it will only grow as each year goes by and right now in your opinion you know we have a program in place that will keep these companies here in the united states given the fact here is the interesting thing that last year forty five percent of the solar technology in the world was produced in china and they exported ninety five percent of it they did not deploy it in china they exported ninety five percent of it so this gets to the u s trade representative this gets to what the steelworkers are talking about this gets to whether or not we have an aggressive enough across the board strategy to make sure that we are protecting our own potential domestic production capacity here so that it winds up with americans with one of our favorite charts you are exactly right it is moore's law for photovoltaics it is the fundamental thesis on which we invest in solar which is a significant portion of our portfolio the point i would make is you are exactly right basically we are very close to grid parity very close being the next few years if we have the right incentives we will get there in the u s and we are at that stage when this is where the incentives kick in it is in the labs it is going into deployment if we don't have those incentives what will happen is you will have lines coming from all of those points and they are going to go to different countries china taiwan korea and that is what is scary having said that this chart if you show it to our competitors globally largely in the united states so here we are the innovators creating these huge technological breakthrough historical moments and the other countries are taking note of it putting in place policies some of them protectionist so that they can capture the opportunity that we created out of our universities mister viswanathan and to build on what mister fulton said and also a response to mister cleaver's question the incentives we are not saying is permanent  there were huge subsidies that had to be built into the system in order to build an electricity grid in the united states especially out to rural america it was subsidized it was largely subsidized by urban americans taking care of suburban and rural americans in telecommunications there was a huge subsidy program so we could have a telecommunications program in the united states and it was largely subsidized by urban americans who subsidized suburban and rural americans so they could have the same phone service that those in the cities had but it was a huge multi multibillion dollar subsidy that still continues to this day by the way still continues the subsidy  f rural america for telecommunications for example so i think people are kidding themselves if they think there hasn't been an ongoing industrial policy in the united states to ensure that the electricity the solar i mean crocodile tears come down from in many instances the very companies that got subsidized to be created in the way that the telecommunications companies didn't want a third fourth fifth and six license to be put out there in the same way that the existing companies are saying why would we want broadband we already have a monopoly we already have all the customers that exist in america why would we want other independent companies and hundreds of them moved into this space once we had this broadband revolution why would we want those people in as well so we have to work it through in order to explain to the american people that there are millions of jobs here that we can create in the united states because technology always triumphs technology always triumphs this is going to happen it is only a question of whether we as a country are going to start out where we are going to be forced to wind up anyway in terms of the importation of these technologies into our country or the development the creation of the jobs here in the united states that will then export them to other countries in the world that is the only question not whether or not there is a moore's law in solar there is are we going to have a plan to capture it here for our country  yes i was just going to say that similar laws were applied in the wind business as well if you wind the clocks back thirty years you see a similar curve we took advantage at least in the early part of this past decade of the scale that was a majority and the way you need to get a majority is we have hearings like this we have a big public debate so to a certain extent this california referendum is a great opportunity for us as well let's have this debate let's see where california wants to be parity with the retail price of electricity so in italy you get to the point where if you want to put an air conditioning unit in you should generate the electricity from photovoltaic on your own roof california perhaps a few years this is without subsidy is very sunny at fort huachuca arizona it is very sunny in florida or those ads are going to start to run again where a bad day in florida in winter is when one cloud goes by so they advertise all the sun there and there is a lot more sun there than in italy or germany  in oil from opec to refine all that sun in texas it is going to be scary every day you go out and you have to put on sun protection and you are an oil refiner in texas it has got to be a little bit you have to be a little bit apprehensive not only about your own its full blown market based form that no longer needs subsidies in five or ten years because you have now created a complete market for it do you agree with that mister liebreich well it should be scary because the combination of percent of all of the oil which we consume in america goes into gasoline tanks that these oil refiners have a stake in making sure we don't have a plug in hybrid and an all electric vehicle revolution because they could be using solar and wind generated electricity to power these vehicles and tell opec we don't need their oil any more than we need their sand but that wouldn't require oil to be imported from these countries into  refiners in america and reduce our dependence upon imported oil change our national security status in terms of where we import this oil from and the funding that we give to these countries and other countries so there is a huge national security element that goes to the creation of a domestic renewable energy industry that then is providing the lower cost electricity for the plug in hybrids and all electric vehicles that we are using liebreich indeed i saw an interview with the saudi oil minister who was asked about alternative energy and whether he considers the drive towards clean energy as a threat and his response was to say no we are absolutely happy for it to happen because it will never in any country that would have some insight into the power of solar and wind but they continue to finance in fact questions about climate change and questions about the need to move in this direction as well although they could be the leaders in fact  in the development of that technology but they are not unlike their oil refining brethren here in texas that is going to try to slow down this domestic revolution mister liebreich could i if i may comment on one other aspect of this global race which this raises and that is there is a caveat around how we go for those manufacturing jobs and if you go back to the analogy of the telecom industry which was an enormously successful industry and created jobs through your efforts and the efforts of others in creating the frameworks we do import almost all of our mobile phones the manufacturing is not generally domestic u s but the license the technology the value add very much is and we have an analogous situation where those innovations many of which were here in the u s are in a lot of the technology that is coming out of china and other parts of the world so i would just urge caution about seeing success as whether we manufacture cells in the u s yes or no because  shows just how integrated the supply chain the technology licensing the financing the search for talent managerial talent and so on it is very very integrated and the number one challenge for the shift to clean energy is to keep going down that curve which requires all countries to be progressing and playing to their strengths and so i think particularly given the drum beat  allow us with our very low cost workforce to manufacture it and together we will save the world you coming up with the ideas we with making the products and by the way in order to ensure that that is the case engage in protectionist activity and subsidies that are questionable under world trade organization rules in order to create that beachhead of manufacturing capacity in our country that then makes it very difficult for you to compete so we clearly don't want to be left as uncle sucker here investing in all the research and then not seeing the jobs in america in its fair proportion to what it should represent given the there is no reason and to just build on what you said earlier just take a page out of the semiconductor industry the innovation was done here intel some of the greatest companies are here they have outsourced manufacturing to the fabs in china and taiwan we have ceded nothing in mister fulton you contributed to a report published earlier this month that looked at the claims made by global warming skeptics regarding the fundamental science of climate change first of all why did deutsche bank decide to put out that doing their best at innovating we have a private equity group as well so we are trying to do our best everyone is but at the end of the day unless we have i am afraid to go back to this tlc structure then  adequate flows that you are going to need to really get there so i think at the moment a lot of us are saying okay let's see how policy goes in america in particular in the next few months i think it is a very important signal  liebreich i have a slide that i would like to put up for a moment i don't believe that you used this one during your presentation but i think it is a very interesting one if we can get it up on the screen here could you explain briefly what we are looking at i think this is the one that says that u s wind manufacturing supply is projected to ramp up to fourteen thousand to fifteen zero megawatts per year over the next couple of years but projected demand falls way short of that could you put that up on the screen pl thousand and eight here in the u s and into two thousand and nine and of course the build rate drops away sometime after the financing activity what we are seeing in the u s is that over the longer period  from two thousand and five through till two thousand and eight two thousand and nine was that demand outstripped supply there are a number of reasons for this there are only two domestic manufacturers ge and a smaller company supply and the supply was partly held back by the lack of what my colleague mark fulton would call tlc the fact that the production tax credit for wind expired every two years meant that companies were reluctant to the european companies principally were reluctant to invest here in the u s in order to meet that demand because there was so much uncertainty about the use of those assets what is happening now is that there is substantial new investment and you can see on this chart who is doing the investing now you can see ge in dark blue and clipper at the top in light blue but the expansion in capacity is coming from overcapacity which is very good news for the cost of turbines which are coming down we produced the wind turbine price index and we are seeing turbine prices coming down already by around twenty percent from their peaks in system now has a collateral consequence in terms of now receiving financing for something that obviously has seen a reduction in the overall cost of producing this new technology mister liebreich well i don't think i mentioned derivatives i just want everyone when you say the catastrophe we know the catastrophe is that unfortunately around the world people were buying derivatives packed with all kinds of very poorly structured investment vehicles that were not well understood by the global investment community that unfortunately has come back to haunt all other industries as well and i am not sure tea party activists fully understand that counterparties actually don't have a stake in policing the derivatives global marketplace since the ceos of most of these companies who produced the derivatives don't even understand what a derivative is except that it was a center of economic profit for them but ultimately the bubble bust and it is having an impact in other economic areas as well i only say just to point out i was the chairman over wall street for fourteen years as well so i bring that knowledge in as well as telecom from the s just to add it in as an extra factor of what the consequences are of turning a blind eye to things that were completely r and so that is why there is such a focus on programs like the cash grants because it is impossible otherwise to get the same level of projects financed some projects will get financed but there is a chunk that will not happen without the continuance of some of these programs here in the u s and what we are seeing here in terms of the dotted line that you see on the chart which is the line of demand that program where there is a policy that is established combined within the financing programs that are put in place that help to facilitate the installation of the renewable energy sources that  an information provider so we don't that have used that approach but certainly the industry and our clients would be one hundred percent behind the push for transparency and longevity mis peers across the globe in china they have multiple of these incentives they have a stimulus for clean energy they have a renewable energy standard they have a feed in tariff they have an energy development fund all of these things are going to be very very helpful as we build that clean tech your firm is still putting up billions of dollars in the clean energy sector why is that if you see all these pessimistic signs on the road as well why are you still investing so many new billions of dollars into the viswanathan well that is a very good question there are two ways to answer it because we fundamentally believe in all of the things you said in terms of your chart having said that if all of these stop you will see investment dry up from our community because we cannot do it ourselves management can you give us some context here what mister parker was talking about this is testimony ultimately before the united states senate as they were trying to pass a climate and clean energy bill that ultimately was stopped by i hate to say it but it is basically the oil senators from oklahoma and the coal senators from kentucky the republicans that basically just stop it over there so again we continue to have this tension that exist say that is just fact in terms of capital deployment again i think the point is that particularly in the longer term where is capital going to go in the next five to ten years and unless the united states has this policy package and structure that is going to encourage that flow it is not going to take place the chairman it is not going to take place now i understand that none of you are international trade lawyers but i would like to get your views on the united steelworkers petition to the u s trade representative regarding china's violations of trade rules in the clean energy sector as i mentioned in my testimony i believe that we very much need a climate of intense darwinian paranoia inducing competition in the renewable energy sector so that we can drive down the cost of each of these technologies as quickly as possible but if china is violating international trade laws our domestic workers and domestic industry as a whole are put at an obvious disadvantage i would like to ask each of you how important trade law and obviously would make the point that we have to wait and see what is determined in that situation i would make one comment about china's policy it is very comprehensive we have heard from other participants they yes my knowledge on the situation isn't entirely what it should be what you would like to have but i think there is a relationship we discussed some of it here earlier between technology development manufacturing the financing of likewise i suspect that chinese manufacturers are going to find it easier to export to some of the other markets where their technology might be more appropriate so their technology is not technology and chinese wind technology might well be happening elsewhere in the world i think in terms of the case if you look at some of those elements it will be very difficult without knowing without claiming to be a lawyer very difficult to  in terms of cheap loans and so on it is hard to distinguish some of those programs from some of the programs here one element of what china is doing gives me great cause for economic concern and that  grid we are not going to have a smart grid without rare earth minerals so i think that we should be prioritizing ensuring that there is a global and open market for these minerals perhaps over some of the  so that other countries have the capacity to participate in this global competition because the denial of access to the rare materials makes it impossible really for a level playing field to be creat the department of energy is actually considering loan guarantees for u s rare earth production which is something that i also think is very important that we begin to recognize that as something that should be specially focused upon in terms of rare earth minerals here in the united states and the extent to which we are also financing that development as well mister liebreich could you put the recovery act in context for us a little bit how important was that legislation last february of two that we are seeing now the caveat the small part of the answer is that there was actually a period where the industry was actually waiting because they were waiting for that act to be  because we are trying to talk to all of these people that mister liebreich says if they get all the information you know in a digestible form they will make the right decision but part of our responsibility is to be the translators out of the world of experts think an aggressive renewable industry standard in terms of its ambition and also in terms of its penalties for non achievement could be the single most important long term factor in the development of the market here in the u s but i do say that it has to be ambitious not something that is easily achieved the good things in life tend to be hard to achieve and if it doesn't spur changes in can't simply pay the penalty and go on with business as usual that in place over a long period setting a long term target would be very important the single critical thing that has to happen whether it is through a fe that are being financed and that are producing the technologies know that they will be able to sell and get revenues here in the u s not just that it will be cheap just to open a factory but there is somebody to sell the products from so i think it is critically important the states have shown great leadership in moving ahead with their own renewable energy standards as i mentioned thirty states have got some sort of standard and a national standard which builds on language my language actually that created a fifteen percent renewable electricity standard by the year two thousand and twenty in the united states for all fifty states not for thirty states and another five percent that would have to be extracted by the utilities  new energy efficiencies in the way in which they generate electricity so it would be twenty percent by two thousand and twenty would that meet your standard for challenging the system mister liebreich it would most certainly help there is no question my own view is if you look at license i wasn't going to predict that everyone would have two devices in their pocket by two thousand and ten and children would have their own little devices as well that they could be walking around with but i kind of have confidence that technology and once you set this larger goal actually it will probably be exceeded as long as you set something that was reasonable that people will go over it anyway that is just the way i view it given my experience in the cable satellite and telecom sector  that is where american public policy is right now trapped over in the senate with a minority of senators coming from and representing the perspective of oil and coal from kentucky and oklahoma kind of denying the rest of this country this revolution while we were still funding in this bill by the way sixty dollars billion for carbon capture and sequestration research development and deployment sixty billion dollars in the bill so that older industries could move along as well as part of this clean energy revolution so it wasn't as though it was just all one side it was going to be a comprehensive all of the above strategy so we are going to wrap up the hearing right here and we are going to ask each o you to give us the one minute you want the american public to remember from your presentation as we go forward on this clean energy debate here in the united states we are going to go in reverse order of the original  transparency longevity and certainty in policy structures is crucial to creating a new clean and green energy sector which will stand the united states in great stead in the long run and in doing that at the moment there is a lot of discussion about national renewable electricity standards about extending the incentives coming out of the stimulus package and all of these should be looked at very carefully at the moment because this is a critical moment the united states we will require some support we have very supportive customers and investors but support in the way of real near term cash based incentives like a refundable  been the hallmark of the united states for decades and it has led to the creation of massive industries resulting in millions of jobs that spilled over into clean tech which we are very excited about having said that we risk losing that competitiveness based on the commitment and resolve of a lot of would like to highlight the world is undertaking this shift to a lower carbon energy future this is not something that is debatable this is something that is happening maybe in the earlier stages but it is happening that shift will be enormously profound it will echo not just through the energy industry but through the sorts of housing the sorts of transportation all industries will be impacted by the shift to lower carbon energy and so doing it will create an enormous wealth of new technologies a wealth of new jobs and a wealth of new wealth and i think that the u s is at a pivotal point where it has to decide whether it is going to be a price taker for the next century on energy or whether it is going to be a price giver whether it is going to be leading that revolution or accepting the technologies from other players that is what is at stake then finally saving and that is that if you see what is happening in the world in terms of the trends in clean energy then inevitably you conclude that it is riskier to invest in fossil fuels than it is to invest in clean energy the perception still is the other way around but the perception is incorrect the chairman thank you mister liebreich thank each of you for your very important testimony because we are at a critical juncture in this clean energy debate for the last several years the opponents of dealing with climate change have said well what is china going to do we shouldn't do anything until china moves well china is moving china has targeted this sector china has a plan the united states needs a plan when the united states has a plan the united states wins if the united states does not have a plan we are going to lose that chart will have china germany india country after country ahead of us in terms of capturing the full economic benefits of this clean energy revolution so we really don't have a choice to use this analogy that is the telecommunications sector the united states government had to invest in we had to put up the money initially when al gore was talking about the internet we actually had to pass a bill here in congress in one thousand nine hundred and ninety one to take darpanet and to turn it into the internet that is what he was talking about it was privatized but it was a public sector investment to create it not only here but globally it was a plan which the united states had and because we had a plan and because we then it was deployed here in the united states more rapidly more quickly than in other parts of the world because then the development of the ancillary ideas would be here as well we need a similar plan here in  the energy sector the rest of the world is moving if america put a plan in place which is what the waxman markey bill was a green energy bank a renewable electricity standard a fifty percent improvement in the  efficiency of all new buildings by two thousand and sixteen a dramatic increase in the appliance efficiency standards in our country it would incentivize our own country to make the breakthroughs sixty billion dollars in carbon capture and sequest n for research development and deployment we would be the leader we would be exporting we would be the price maker not the price taker we would be telling the rest of the world here it is if you want it let's have a negotiation over how we share it with you instead we are now confronted with real plans some of them borderline legal that have been put in place in other countries so that they are able to get the lion's share so i agree with all of you we need a national renewable electricity standard we have to put on the books on a permanent basis these incentives the tax the loans the other programs so that over a period of time we create the industries then we can pull away the incentives because they have reached grid parity then they don't need the government anymore they are off and running and our private sector has been the winner so in the same way that we deployed telephone service across america we deployed electricity service across the country we invested in the internet in the early years with government money you can then pull away you don't have to do it any longer because those people who want to be millionaires and billionaires move in and they are going to move a lot faster than the government would ever move whoever makes that breakthrough in photovoltaic will become the wealthiest person on the planet they will dwarf bill gates they will d other billionaires that is a lot of electricity for a lot of people around the planet it is a race to be the wealthiest person on the planet we have to have a strategy so the names come from the united states that is our goal some of them are sitting at this table and that is who they want to be the people who ultimately from the planning from the financing then make this stuff and get rich that is what it should be all about right now pelosi's goal is to create a whole new generation of millionaires and billionaires in our country and what we are going to need is the venture capital the banking industry the technology sector to get into this fight they have to get on the playing field we cannot have texas oil refineries defining the fight we need these other industries that are the beneficiaries we need the future billionaires to get into this the people who believe in the technology sector  so that we have a level playing field politically because we are quite confident that our vision is correct let me just say again it is not that we leave behind coal that we leave behind oil because we make the investment in them as well to ensure that they become cleaner set of technologies as well we need all of the above that is what our plan has to be and then america will win looking over its shoulder at number two and three in the world thank you all so  much for your participation today i have a report and a letter on clean energy investment prepared by the accounting firm of ernst young that i would like to put into the record without objection and