in that when you look at the economic the economic development information you see here one of the focuses i had was was about growing getting educator going to be in charge of business and industry and these cottage industries etc that they're from there if we give it opportunity for more people first that they're they're the owners of the businesses here they're the ones that are the managers they're the ones they're not just laborers ok and i think that's critical for our community to maintain its people power and maintain an economy that really represents with that said i just want to say that i know that chapter nine is not on tonight's agenda but in reference to chapter five there's a lot of education issues that address all of the policy all of them many of the policies issues policies and actions with regards to education it wasn't just you're going to see a lot of things in chapter five that talk about all these things we want to do but we all know this and go back to you know educational initiatives to train up our workforce to get people capable of meeting those needs in our community so if you see that lacking in and in general but even as you're seeing here there's a bit i am so proud of the testimonies coming out of our more community and the efforts that have been made to kill organize them and i think one of the most powerful things you'll see is that r c pac lacked it and effective ability to reach our entire community on a time because we are meeting in a central location people are funneling to us but the fact that these meetings are taking place and people are talking about real issues in all these different local i think you're going to see some radical statistical  reliability and the commonality of the issues that are coming up more white and that's an to be fascinating i think for you guys to see as this process unfolds and when that happens when you know the same issues this concern among why is the same issue because i can speak to their because i live there and i want to disrespect monologue but when you see the same issue come up in monologue for example the reliability of that happening in two places is is you know it's real so hopefully it will spark more people in our community come really validate this venue participate in this process because it's critical for the input so thank you you anymore public testimony and chapter five ok yeah i guess so nobody seems to know at this point so public us money i think you ok so in light of all the documentation that we've been given and i was very fortunate to get the  inclusions and document early so i was able to read it but i think there are a lot of things that pertain to the this two chapters we talked about today and as well as one two and three that  be best if we all went back and looked at it and made recommendations that we could just kind of go on in and stuff but there are couple that i think we can meet today so i'd like to make a motion on page five dash three and amendment to policy number three it says to support the development of agriculture and value added agricultural products i just would like to include and support traditional family family wife systems second discussion so just to be clear with other commissioners so when we talk about the development of agriculture and value based added products we just want to maintain that there are different types of cultural and traditional family ways of growing crops waterways very different with growing things compared to the filipino community so being sensitive that inclusive in our economic development portion of our policies and goals that in addition to supporting development of agricultural and added sorry value added agricultural products that i meant for large scale agriculture that we recognize traditional family types of businesses small farms cultural consumption for cultural type cropping for families and homes i don't think it's excluding anything it's just including the opportunity we have a motion in favor under two add in an action item five point one six that states support the use of traditional hawaiian farming systems and the growth of traditional hawaiian crops support the use of traditional hawaiian farming systems and the growth of traditional hawaiian crop maybe greg can kind of comment to it if you want to on the c pac side but as i read through the document especially on this economic development side there's very little that economics to traditional farming and so i just wanted to make sure that on action items there was always a very clear support because that's our community's desire and today was a very good example of that that traditional pipes and family pipes of  of of cultural crops and and farms and aquaculture and all those kinds of things are very important and they're an important aspect of the underlying economics in terms of economics and so it may not be something that on a national scale can be measured by dollar value but is indeed something that is measured by significant value to the people continue to live here subsistence and all of those kind of things i think it's important to now add on that in our actions we actively supporting our whole culture and a lot of the lands you know i grew up really understanding that the success of our on the flourishing of our people was based on what could be grown there what was appropriate to be grown there different families type of right down to what are we in the type of crops that we have saw so i'm not trying to discount or eliminate anybody but i think this is really important to note that more locally is a hawaiian island and it is the whole sculpture is holy and so is supporting traditional hawaiian farming in systems in the growth of traditional hawaiian crops is important jan before you go i want to get my in and ok so on page five one of the economic development section line fourteen i'd like to add this and as follows in molokai and then on december two thousand monsanto purchases a wine research so my my reasoning for this is that i wanted to get the record straight and what the seatback at down so ok we have a motion in a second discussion just to keep with the format here we've got we've identified fact that we don't have an educated workforce for a skilled workforce it's called out it's an issue and then  policies number two support improvements in education training programs internships but the five point one four seems kind of we support workforce development efforts to help improve the economy and that's just  suggest we i mean do it and then you move over to the action table at five point one four it's just it's kind of weak just to support workforce development efforts to help improve economy can we be more and are they going to do want to go to college or they want to go someplace else and take on another challenge in life well we have them here and there are children where we can still have them wanting to stay home teach them a trade give them something solid in high school so that maybe we can put some more teeth in here well can we add one thing this may or may not help marshall but there are other actions on the table that relate to what you're talking about if you  back and rob is also here you can ask him this question so what is your friend who is on page five five action item five point one two says which developed regulations are going to discourage investors from making county regulations are exclusive to the county as a whole and specific things that just naturally discourage any type of investment in an existing business or say one example and later on in the plan we address how to get updated so it's not just necessarily soley for outside investment he would be for investment of our local businesses as well ok stevenson from my back and i concur with what greg has said that was the intent of it and i think we also need to be careful when we talk about investment and who's going to invest and who's not going to invest because there are there is a lot of investment opportunities that come from off island and like it or not we are part of the united states we're all protected under the constitution united states constitution the state of hawaii so we can't really try to pick and choose who might invest or look at regulations that might favor local as opposed to someone from outside so it was basically to take a look and see what things are problematic to prevent people from coming in here and investing in building a commercial building for rental for retail for building affordable housing projects for people coming in investing in a home that they might be able to for an affordable thank you so i think you guys this in addition to their comments or just wanted to say that i respect your opinions but i disagree that we cannot make our own rules i think is the way it is and continues to be a place that it is because we make our own and this community plan document is a plan that the community has for itself whether it complies with national standards national statistics whatever i mean the fact that we don't have corporation council over here to let us know whether or not we abiding by the laws of the land i mean or the chose not to be able to come or for whatever reason they're not here we question that also so to me this is a free for all i mean ultimately when this commission makes a recommendation to the council we making it totally on our own and i hope the commissioners realize that that we haven't had any legal advice so in people stand up and tell us what is legal in the united states of america and all these kinds of stuff we just have volunteer citizens of this community that want to do the right thing and saw who is going to be held accountable when we submit a document to the county council that has issues in there that somebody can pick up in a contested court hearing or is that the plan so i mean i just pull the no questions because because i sitting here giving up my time because i love my community you guys sitting here giving up the did the same thing but without the presence of legal counsel documenting and being noted that there are questions and all the things that we discussing and it being on public record to say that that was our that was a legal procedure that you did it plenty of things we did today and it wasn't a right now we taking full total responsibility for due diligence that the information we use to make decisions better be accurate because there is nobody here to be responsible for the choices that we are making arm with that being said on the positive side it opens up that you guys can tell us anything you want and we can decide anything that this community wants to do because this is our community plan and we should not be afraid all or did by any laws of anybody else's land because if they wanted us to comply by by their laws then they would have been here to advise us what laws those were that we were breaking saw the duly noted but i just want to say that when we ask these questions that i was i don't want anybody testimony or anything we say to dictate what people want to say to us about the extent by which you can put in your comment go back to chapter five for one minute before nancy talks didn't say anything about adding the subsistence economy under f yeah yeah no i just just simply the one line thirty five seventeen continued support  number that particular that particular policy on page five dish for was not a policy that i presented personally so that came from the group but i know there was a lot of discussion  and that our pursuit towards having abundance for the not just not just subsistence and sustainability but working towards abundance and so from that in this particular chapter you can see that those two areas were targeted member i'm sensitive to how venison or any of our natural resources would be used for economic use that could have any detrimental effect on our community so i have really no other comment than that i believe that the intent as i recall that is to support the discussion sort of talk about supporting the discussion we're looking at what type of economic activities could we utilize the a resources in to them that were identified were in venice and there are many more so that discussion could change over time into adding or removing any particular item but it was a support to try to find economic activity it  wasn't intended to say we're going to develop an industry based on venice and n p r it was just to support the discussion  i just don't i don't agree that we should ever look at natural resources in its abundance and commercialize on there i think you open the doorway to all kinds of different  possibilities of then then then you can have people you know by i mean not to target deer because i'm not talking about any specific but but what if decided to just going g and so they made the place that every single all the deer ended up going to west then and there was nothing else work people on the rest of the island to hunt freely and to eat so that's  that's a really radical view but i still think that using our natural resources and putting it in a document of this type as the desire of the community to even discuss what we can do in our bond is the truth is we don't we don't have abundance of anything we don't even know what kinds of abundance we have on this island and so to discuss those things right now i think is premature what we should discuss is how do we culled of the the richness of what we have and and move forward to preserve that for future generations favor with unanimous so if nobody has anything else on chapter five then you go few minutes left if anybody's got anything else on previous chapters or just wants to share their m planning will say that this is a long range planning document when if it's mostly he uses is going to be for current planning and so i concur with those members of the planning commission that question why our current planning representatives are typically here whether that's clayton whether that's our current plan or and why why that is in cork council because this document will be used to make decisions with respect to things that are zoning came up and it was to temporarily put us in places and look at planning considerations until we figured out the right answer to the question is it putting us on the right when used as a nation zoning and other things i don't believe that's been adequately done since that was started and as i've stated before more bad planning doesn't fix bad planning so i'm all for pressing the reset button and i really believe that this document because of the quality of the work that was put in by our planners by the seat back members by yourselves by a community that there are powerful questions that are asked in this document and that the answers of those questions whether they're from the policies policies or actions once those questions are answered we have the tools to make informed decisions so when our government takes action we don't violate we we can demonstrate that we have we have we have  the rational basis test and that we've met the requirements and are due process of law for community input and really what our committee wants to do if we start making decisions and we were advisory body you guys are a decision making body and while you're making recommendations here this document will come back where you make decisions and we may have to make sure that when you guys make those decisions that you're well informed and so i'm not specifically talking about any one chapter  talking about all of them i believe that dot is the key to success of this document right now that when those questions are answered maybe you know in the future you guys i believe are going to be tasked with making the same methodology of decisions you currently ma considering i'll probably get on the same soapbox for other people who don't get to hear it over and over again but i feel it's very dangerous that we think this document is complete even when you send it to council of council approves it and all you to do is go to chapter ten and look at all the things that are purposed to be the questions that are asked that are purpose to be answered so thank you i actually would like to comment on great comment because i read through the minutes of the meeting last time and i know you and i know you've been concerned about and it's important which is why i want to comment  ore due diligence gets thrown around a lot and people need to really understand the threshold level of what that means because due diligence in a court room means one thing due diligence when a teacher gets a paper means another and due diligence here means a different thing so i suspect that there's a concern actually means a lot to me because it means that you think this document should mean something i take issue when you say this is bad planning i think what you need to keep in mind is the context of a community plan i will tell you and i hope this alleviate some of your concerns first of all you've got a current planner sitting right here simple lopez who does have a county shirt and she is the most p and does review planning permits but i do want you to know because this is important and this is going to be important as we move to every single community plan that's going to get done we sit down with the staffs of zoning and current as we come up with this document i want you to know that jeff that clayton that the planners particular who are talking about the community and have gone through this entire document i will tell you that as i have been prepping my staff to do the west maui community plan looking and lessons learned from here and so forth jeff jack and clayton and kurt and many of these planners told me i said how do you use the community plant there's a lot of concern that there's that their silos that there's not connects that what they're busting their you know what's on is not going to be used in the future when they get permits when there's zoning when there's an implementation and again you're looking at plans written i know you've heard it before to point b before the plan but they said when they go through applications and permits and so forth they literally take the community plan open it up and look at the policies the policies i'm just telling you this is they look at the policies and in many cases they can recite these policies off the top of their heads so this community plan will be used and is known by the current planners i'm saying that now with regard to core counsel i have been passing along a request every single time you guys have asked i know you as a county employee understand resources and so forth so i'm going to repeat to you that i'm sure things you've heard and that is the amount of funding available for poor counsel to come over here i will tell you that will has asked quite honestly it's up to the how to court counsel thompson because i want to be helpful i don't want to make excuses rachelle thompson who is the lead core council on the community plan and which i think is great because she's very familiar with your permits and so forth those types of issues and we'll be here on february twenty fifth and what we've been told again and again and again and i have so many notes that i have a parking i mean a box court counsel questions with regard to public acts with access with a card of public trust doctrine there are a lot of issues that came up tonight what we've been told is if you have a legal question then we can answer that so i just gone ahead and written these things and preparing them out of court counsel say please be prepared to answer the following concerns by the community i will tell you they're going to be home for every twenty fifth which is going to be huge to answer the big thousand five thousand pound white elephant that's mixed use that's really important and community plan land use does ignitions versus zoning bring it on seriously they will be here to answer in person those questions so i just i take issue with bad planning i don't think this has been bad planning i think it's been very good planning i think what see pack did was phenomenal it was a hugely vetted document i think with the planning commission is attempting to do is very very you know everybody's input is is very we really appreciate it but i am telling you this document will be used and is used and has been used by the planners in current as well as zoning so my intent is not to throw you know rocks and glass houses here and say that would your efforts are as bad what i'm saying is that if we don't make sure that what we're doing is that we're not going to be able to make the best decisions and that's all this community  of really meaningful input from our community to come up with the information that will result in a really that's all i'm talking about and if i was a member of this community first not a county employee member if i can see that and that's that's the reason behind the legal side is the core council is not with the c pac good but even for us i mean we don't want to waste your time with our c pac efforts right so if we would have been you know had some you know maybe more background we could have made some better decisions that would have made your time more efficient but the challenges you guys are regulatory body you guys are going to make those decisions so that's my intent and i appreciate you saying that some of those resources will be here because when they are built trust whether they were whether we ask them a question or not you know if someone has a question and we can make sure that this community trust this process then that document becomes real and if it's not real to this community we're going to be sitting here ten years from now having the same discussion so thank you tell us what you like what we didn't do ok so this future meeting all of what is march march what is the last march ten supports all comments in the later date letter dated eleven twelve fifteen we also support holding evening meetings and at least one meeting on the east and and then there was a request for information about the  i don't know when exactly the beneficiary comment which is basically walter's testimony whether written or oral and then at this meeting submitted written testimony so i guess that's how that's going and then suggestion to a column that links the relationship between policies and actions there's a rewording request for the fast fact about the first bullet point population demographics i'm sorry one  subdivision of agricultural homes to a lot there was never a moratorium on the subdivision of residential lots it's actually limiting the subdivision of lots is water availability because of the show me the water bill all over the island to free up some housing and other areas the island we do support that there is a lack of representation and government it's tough when you're a small island with a small population to get represent taishan and government their cultural resources and traditions we do support introducing the traditional those are the main ones we know there's a few others but that if there is an appropriate place to include those as part of the sort of the values on this island we would support th and opportunities again the subsistence economy that's been talked a lot of about and we do support that discussion future we support the statement  goes along the lines of in order to know where you're going you have to be able to look back at where you have been i was searching for that alone and i couldn't find it today but i'm going to keep looking vision statement we would support a separate workshop with community participation if there's going to be revisions of the vision statement and we know there side by side at this point and then natural heritage and  resources out the term traditional ecological knowledge and courage and support research these are policies that studies water quality invasive species and circulation issues around the co way it is now and chapter three support watershed there were some policies that were removed that we support reinstating watershed or resource management and and then heritage resources we discussed this and we do support the removal of the ship site location from the culture resources map as recommended by long range division and ship to the culture resources planner and shipped in as approved by the commission identification protection of archeological and culturally significant sites prior to and during construction there may be other policies that can achieve this but again emphasizing to focus on coastal dune grading and unpermitted grading and feeling of well and by requiring that all grading and and i actually have to leave because my right here if you have any questions otherwise no questions ok plans you have the old one and then you have like striking red marks or something that clearly at some point you guys were you able to develop a list of themes that were changed on the two thousand and one plan internally i know that every single time we had changes throughout the process those documents were put up with the strike marks through it so i'm sure this pack members probably have a mountain like this of documents will strike marks for your purposes on the plan commission what's being has been sent to you is each time we go through a chapter like what you receive in the probably in your packet from tonight you'll have these strikeouts so you'll have this entire document you know like you have chapter four in chapter five with all the additions and strikeouts and so forth but hands are are straight bolts from what the but there's nothing from the original two thousand and one plan couple of those meetings and i know that all of the maps that we're seeing right now they weren't able to see in its entirety so i was just wondering if if there was a comparative to the two thousand and one plan that we could look at  were viewed because what happened was when we went through all the meetings and there were changes we marked all the changes plus it was reflected in the notes but more accurately physically in their copies and i know that they received a document the head every single strikeout including the maps and then we had added to additional meetings so they could see the document as a whole with all the changes through the process that was done including the maps that also included the maps and then we had another meeting with like the clean whole document so i know through the various notes on top they've had all these strike outs of member court and the only reason i mean one of the most important reasons i was asking is the  so i was just wondering if there was a way that we could and you know if it's too much of a hassle and it's ok we'll just sit here and go through the process but what if there was a way to get what was originally on the two thousand and one if  you if the planning department had done it what was there compared to what changes were made by maybe we could get a better story and then to include that we were never given the eastern policy statement and it's been a hot topic and a eastern policy statement is in your existing plan so if you go online and you click on the ninety i can't remember what your off the top of my head but the existing and the eastern policy statement i think is exhibit d but it's in so you should know as a plus question as a commission member you should know your existing plan and in your existing plan has that used in policy i know my existing plans in there i know but it's not in here that's because it hasn't been voted on this is what we're end policy plan including included in our community plan we are looking at a document that is supposed to go forward there has been numerous community testimonies that see it they want it in the community is not going to have enough make sure we have the correct version your thoughts on trying to do is which version i want to make sure we have what you're talking about which right now is in your existing community and there has been tons of testimony version you took excerpts from the com ty plan and put it into that you took out excerpts from the east and community policy statement and you put it in here i can't figure out where it is i maybe can see here and there where it is but it doesn't clearly say that it was an excerpt from there are reviewing officially now because what this doesn't include it in its original form so is it my understanding that if we wanted to we couldn't bring it back we can only vote on whatever to se approved ok you can you can bring it back you can bring it back and as a matter of fact you can bring it back in the planning commission you can say i want the existing used in policy statement in this plan you can do that but alternately it's the county council and understand that but i understand that but i'm just saying that we were handed one whole one whole binder full of things that we're supposed to review and from last meaning to all the community meetings i've been to since we  got here again tonight the east in policy statement has been on hot topic so will it would just be good to have it included that's all i also want to make a note that when you plan but you don't clearly define where it is it's hard to distinguish that you actually took it out of there and if it was taken out of context have a question of staff when the council when we're finished with this and what the council receives is it going to be are they going to have the original what was approved by and what changes we incorporated are going to have it after the changes that we've made without knowing what the pac original one was that's my question so really good question so the whole point of putting together a community plan is many people a voice throughout these meetings is to have a document that the community represents the community as a whole so what we are doing in this process is not to give the county county council three different drafts a planning document that went through say pac and our comment to people like greg and robert and so forth was you know if you there are issues that you still are not happy with that you want change that you want highlighted make sure you conduct planning commission meetings in the planning commissioners understand where you're coming from and why you did what you did it's an evolving process as your community plan so to answer your question the county council we'll get one plan that has been vetted through the sea pac and then vetted through the planning commission now through the county council process you can again and this is what's happening with one i e you can attend county council meetings and provide public testimony and say i want that eastern policy statement in year or i want you know and so there is a process for that as well so that but it's one cultural resources we talk to people that have an expertise in cultural resources and make decisions appropriately and work on those decisions collaboratively and i know that you folks will make some decisions that perhaps the sea pack may have made some other decisions but this is an independent review process from one body to the next and i respect what i respect all the decisions you folks made but i just wanted to give some perspective that just as before making decisions about disaster preparedness you talk with disaster prepared preparedness professionals just as we talk about infrastructure you work with those types of folks one of the things that one of the decisions that was made today was to remove venison and hunting from the community plan and just in discussions about utilizing those things and i would think it would be useful thing to possibly before making those types of this is a consult with those people who are actually in that business and who those decisions might affect and see if there may be a way to come to some sort of a middle ground where you can accomplish the intent of what you're trying to accomplish but still not adversely affect those people who may be adversely affected by a decision like that so thank you very much for your time  other people who are involved in the business of taking natural resources that belong to everybody on the island and turning it into a commercial venture are the ones you're speaking to what we have heard through this process not just from here but from several folks and from my own heart when you take a natural resource that belongs to everybody and you say it's now mine and i'm going to use it as a commercial enterprise this is not just the spirit i feel on this island but i've heard not just from one source and we're not just up here capriciously making that decision i can appreciate that and i completely appreciate that and i would just add to that you know perhaps maybe we need to define terms of what is a natural resource because there's also water that people are using for commercial enterprise there's also land the people using from a commercial enterprise there's also the ocean there's also the wind there's the sun and so i think maybe if we define terms before having that conversation it might lead to a more useful result thank you we requested some of us to have meetings in that particular respective community that was not made possible for whatever excuses that we received why that wasn't going to happen with subsequently rather time and in that process in running in a time we realize exactly what you said that in the difference in the versions of the current plan that you guys that we have in place now versus this new to point b reference plan it was very difficult to figure out what changes have been made and what couple from where it was it was a it  causes a lot of inefficiency in our time but those of us who did the homework try to pull that off if you look in on page fourteen which is not on your agenda you're going to find the appendices that six three six four  a motion that was made to even have a reference to an policy statement in our plan we submitted that's how bad it got and so what you see here is a subquery a description that's what this policy statement got relegated to input was brought up by some our members to also consider central which i have no issue with i think that's good however there are not plans that currently exist for central or west so it's very descriptions and so the things that i want to talk about right now that supports what commissioner is talking about identifying the changes between the two thousand and one plan and the february two thousand and fifteen draft may have been difficult or interested parties because there was or because there was too or has knowledge no easily assessable information provided about the changes for instance there was no re defined version clearly indicating the differences between the and no list of changes provided to see pac or the public identifying much less analyzing the changes were extremely time consuming the difficulties in reviewing the changes me obscured issues of potential concern and inhibited or deterred commons in certain instances as an example portions of the east policy statement appendix d of two thousand and one plan were incorporated into the two thousand and fifteen drafts in various sections how without searching the two thousand and fifteen draps for each individual policy or paragraph it is impossible to identify what the eastend policy statement were retained and which were not met exhibits were incomplete until the final stages of the draft where the community plan and development process the draft maps provided in february of two thousand and fifteen did not include or did not contain maps six point two six point three and six point four or the proposed community plan land use maps for west central and east respectively these maps were eventually included in the october two thousand and fifteen and november two thousand and fifteen drought maps even though such a land use designation maps were intended to be developed with community input the public had little time to review and comment on the maps prior prior to the sea packs final meeting unsure of the exact dates when the maps were made public however if they were available on october first the  listed on the maps the public would just three weeks to review and comment on the maps before the final meeting of october twenty two two thousand and as discussed in the previous section would have greatly increased the meaningful in us a public participation and input opportunities thank you very much thank you i think that's going to wrap it up for today