with the niece of one of our stories here well lisa sent us our revenue officer lisa's niece hails from the john fuller school in north conway new hampshire and this gentleman flat stanley is visiting with us  to see if local government and hampshire is the same as local government in massachusetts so flat stanley will be visiting during the duration of the meeting in this especially looking forward to the liquor hearing and unusual events like that he also want to extend you warm treasurer and then our appointed revenue officer for our town her elected in a point pointed service span twenty three years and she certainly left a mark on many people in town the number of years in her dedication a side bar was a key position in our as our town transitioned our systems into the computer era contrary to current systems of instant data and e mail communication barbara's family remembered as a person that took the time to work with people listen to this specific situations and when encountering delicate situation regarding people that struggled in town she took it upon herself to find a way to make it work without embarrassment and with compassion and people appreciated the skill that dedication you may have heard that we lower the flag at half mast in the her service on saturday and something that is not done very often in unless there is a military significance when we asked our veterans officer michael johns if this could be done by his unhesitating response was that barbara was in the heart of many of the veterans in town had personal relations with them during her service and he did not hesitate for a minute so if we could buy our heads for recognition of bob or jermaine as i thought to go out to her family for a thank you very much just a couple quick updates of some of the things that are coming invensys mark's been talking to representative investors and you can see us many of you know it is the foxboro company a long time business  partner for over one hundred years and if you remember last summer we had recognized them for their community service there they want to come in to talk to us about business opportunities in town and where they're at and where the future is and i think it's good news so mark's been spending some time and i think we're going to put them on our february fifth agenda that it is yes which is the next hearing another quick update tried down chamber of commerce there's a meeting thursday morning at eight o'clock and that this is kind of the business representation of foxborough mansfield and norton and they want to assist us in kind of the sewer expansion on the on the tri town partnership that we're trying to do so if you're available if you're any board leaders that want to say that it's a good opportunity to meet with the businesses i know lee is as in the area who is the town engineer in mansfield going to give a presentation so hopefully gets us on the same page close at a town meeting when we have to you know that was something that came in front of us a meeting so ago and there's been a lot of discussion when something like a proposal comes from it came in front of us from d p w director and town manager and it was presented as a concept and it was in kind of cooperation with the lions club and if you know the lions club a very well respected community group that's done a lot of good work in town so what i'm asking is let's let is let it go through the process the  historic commission is going to be meeting to discuss it on monday night and then we have it on our agenda also the following tuesday i think of february fifth pencilled and so you know and i know there's a lot of opinions out there but let's just let it run the process and you know we gave our opinion it may come back saying the polls will make a comeback different it may not come back at all but just bear with us and that's the process and i think it i think it's a good process  one other item i wanted to discuss i was approached by some of the representatives from the if you want to call in the victims from the allegations of sheehan from a decade as many decades ago and the concern is it's been kind of silent again on the town we've been wrapped up in a lot of different issues on the board of selectmen stable but i want to assure them that i am speaking frequently with the police chief and i think what the status is right now is the kind of going through around to the treatment shaking a little bit with all the press and people may be more comfortable to speak so it is it is still going forward and we are in contact with the district attorney in working through the investigation mark and i were invited to sit in on a session later on this week with the victims in we graciously said that would be fine to hear it first hand in let them know that we are still working on it  think it may have been in the paper but just after the new years the board of selectmen in cooperation with kevin pecos who drafted up a town policy which we did not have before in cooperation with the chief and district attorney in town council reviewed it so we are implementing a town wide policy for town employees and it takes a gray out of who when and how things are reported and that wasn't in effect before i know it effect with the school systems but not a regular town hall employee so it is specifically recreation and things on that side so we are taking it seriously and it is still moving forward i don't think i want to talk about the family unit exact if you recall this is something that we've been trying to get going for quite some time and at the time manages act is something that's specific to  not specific to all of the towns we hired kevin under this time managers act and he's implementing the strong time managers act and i think it surprised a few people of far reaching reach that the town manager has sole arenas put it committee together and she'll be presenting that at our february twenty sixth meeting and he wants been a minute just to get up to what to expect yeah plan on having panel discussion that will include some members of the original town government study group who will provide us with a history of how we brought that special legislation forward and the background to that and then also we'll have an attorney at least one attorney and an acting strong town manager also participating in the discussion and i'd like if the members of the board if you could send me any questions and so if everyone could send me their questions in advance i could compile them and send them out to the participants the panel participants other they have vans and take it from there in just a couple thank you for a couple other items that are coming up in the next couple hearings and next month or so next week we're going to be talking about the annual time meeting there's an edit meeting with a time moderator and the chairman of the advisory committee to talk about how we can work more effectively maybe at ta meetings i'll bring that information back as well and i think the topic is going to be do we leave well enough alone or discuss moving tommy to a saturday and i think we've probably got all input  much as we're going to get up to this point self well we'll figure out what we're going to do with the next meeting on that with the state gaming commission is coming on february twenty sixth we've got confirmation coming at seven thirty and other things capital budget annual town meeting warrant review disabilities commission in the revolution schedule so going to be packed over the next couple couple weeks so right that's it for the update and well actually i jumped right into that citizens input is anyone that wants to come to the microphone and say anything ok back on track being just a vote seven fifteen sheet you want to present on the leaving everyone team in the grant was a result of deputy chief john chandler actually being in a meeting we've been having monthly safety meetings and maya who is our insurance carrier is always offering to provide different types of services training as well as the potential of grants to enhance the safety in the operation of town departments deputy chief chandler approach me after a conversation with jeff sienna who is our safety rep that it's with us on a regular basis whether we should pursue to get additional portable breath testing machines given the volume of people that we're dealing with a time set gillette stadium about it's encouraging him to do so when it first jeff or reported he wasn't sure whether it would fall under the guidelines but  john drafted some additional information for them to consider and as a result we were able to obtain five additional portable breath testing machines why that is important is it now allows us rather than just having a few machines available where the people are actually processed and booked we have preliminary testing stations at the wagons where people are brought to to try  encourage them if indeed they're not impaired to take the portable broadcast which would give us a more scientific method of determining whether they are in capacity so i borrowed one  john hannah who manages our rough testing equipment was just in the process of verifying that these are up to standard and allowed me to have one just to see the it's a newest model that they have and more importantly with each breath test were required by the state office of alcohol testing to maintain the test results on every test that's given on the machine john was telling me the test results of some of our clients on sunday received nif ikoyi higher than the norm although crowd behavior was exceptional given the size of the sixty eight thousand fans are there again things went very well again trying to make sure that the tao leverage is our capacity by utilising grants free trade at the end of the month we're having the driver simulator into the public safety building i know that both myself and chief hatfield will be having different staff members go through both a classroom exercise as well as the driver simulator again to improve skills make officers and firemen more aware of driving dangers and hopefully reduce the not to look a gift horse in the mouth but you know we've gone through this on other grants that we've got and that is free in the five of them are free the training in the personnel and all the stuff it costs over time to run that they're actually no we're required to maintain officers to have alcohol training updates and fact within the past two weeks we had five officers whose certifications would have expired at the end of two thousand and twelve and they attended a regional training that was given right over on the poncho street at the regional academy that's still running their truck we have an officer an in service training this week and for the balance of their schedule have wanted to offer cers autonomy the only type overtime is occurred if we have to back fill someone's shift because they are detail to attend  are so significant and is that she says it took a couple times to convince them the fun this is because this now gives us the capability to be a lot more sure when we bring people into custody right out there at the point of arrest that they're over the legal limit we can't do that without these portable units it gives us a much higher level of protection from liability lawsuits where people would claim that they were grabbed than they were really drunk  initial inclination was not to fund but after john did some more work and some of us spoke to them personally they saw the value of this in terms of reducing planes potential for false arrest violation and then i'm a very happy to fund them if these prevent one civil rights climb that is the massive savings of the town so we're very enthusiastic about having he's what would you consider the as a reading of point one all of a reading of point five or below there's no presumption fact the presumption is that you're not impaired and you'd be free to go  between the higher than point five and less appoint one then you could use the standard sobriety test to further make a determination whether the person was impaired but that would be up to the officers judge whether the key thing we don't ordinarily just pick on somebody that's walking it's their behavior while they're walking or the inability to walk that brings the minutes from january eight mitigation so i just wanted to have a sentence and inserted that the original public safety mitigation patriot place did not include a large venue like toby keith's and that th we have a taxicab license for one taxi resignation with thanks to debbie she had you know in her group here the letter is just his personal commitments with working in family and little onerous right now fortune to accept with gratitude motion made second further discussion was in favor jim and also in a letter to peter on behalf of the board sixteen with regrets and i just tell the board that had occasion to work with the road commission on a number of occasions on different things and has been an outstanding leader for them on an absolutely fantastic job and he's going to be missed no doubt about it and he has done a fantastic just right for the clarification when i said except with gratitude with gratitude for a service and here is regret that  and i know this it's been in this year when other races does not look like they're closing in i think in the past of the different races time manager form of government the town of foxborough in accordance with the vote of article eight of december eleventh two thousand and twelve and this is a letter that ice i need to sign but article eight of the special time meeting on the under summer eleventh fall both decided not to try specials in the spring were that came to us just last week they were by giving us the time to go to the annual which is better because it gives us time you communicate the finance plan to the public make sure all fourth most in the canceling of town meeting on march fourth so again for the discussion there was one item that was an easement that was with respect to the library but there that they can that's not going to put them in a precarious situation i think getting anything back from them but i did talk to dick gilman telephones we've been dealing with them as well as i would apartment heads which would include jerry to ask if any of the proposed articles and get two minutes here not on the fire department he's why don't we invite the special town council to the table before we reopen the hearing recommended and has a strong background like a licensing law so we welcome him hopefully who our resident expert special council on liquor will be back with us for hearings in the future but brian notice is here by given that the board of selectmen will conduct a public hearing on tuesday november twentieth two thousand and twelve at seven p m in the town hall meeting room forty south street foxboro massachusetts pursuant to its licensing authority in accordance with massachusetts general laws annotated chapter one thirty eight section twenty three sixty four and sixty seven and all amendments there to the fairness of the hearing will be to review and discuss information concerning alleged violations of chapter one thirty eight that occurred at the wax counsel swear in anyone who will be a potential witness then sergeant noonan will read into the record the police reports or the board is aware of what it is you're dealing with while he's doing now i will hand you all the previous reports of materials regarding this meeting the prior violations that we actually use the outcomes which i know you're all familiar with but that and the current police report in one of the police report is read into the record counsel for the town council for waxes myself have been engaging in a series of discussions over the course of the last two three weeks and counsel for waxes would like to present the board with a settlement offer to see if this is something the board is interested in if it is or some small variation thereon then the board would accept it without any further evidence proceedings of the hearing and the document would be signed this is a national written settlement offer on the other hand of the board is not accepting of the offer then you would go on to a full of adventure hearing where you would take evidence offer the opportunity for counsel the cross examine town witnesses present witnesses relaxes give special counsel the opportunity to cross examine waxes witnesses  d you would at that time have to decide if you want to proceed with that tonight which would mean essentially replacing vattel would most of the rest of your gender if not all of it would have to schedule after another night or alternatively scheduling the hearing continuing it tonight and scheduling this hearing to a later date and then going forward with the rest of the business you have schedule tonight the hope and clearly the way we've structured the agenda for tonight is that the board will find a settlement offer to be acceptable or close enough that was some small negotiation if you can close greenman calling got in this sort of the settlement it has to be acceptable to both parties it's offered but you know it's not an offer to do with it what you want it's an offer here's what we'll accept and the efficacy of that is that you impose a sanction as is offered without having to worry about an c appeal and all that we've done many many of these and on the other hand you've also done full blown hearing so so again the procedure is councils where the witnesses the report will be read into the record as attorney frank will make an offer to the board just larger picture and on our agenda reeve got a few items but i don't see anything that's critical in here they can't be pushed to another week there's nothing time sensitive with the exception i just don't know under executive session and labor negotiations where we can do those very late or put them off to a different we you know there's one we have to do this evening because i have a bargaining session on wednesday and i need to dialogue with the board again notifying all the liquor establishment sort of common compliance check would be conducted both the letter and the newspaper article gave notice that during this compliance check that the underage operatives would be entering their stablished with a valid underage idea which clearly indicates that they are under age twenty one we notified them let them know so and gave them enough time to adjust with their staff and adapt any issues that they may have try to conduct in the compliance check i read the structure police department general order in regards to alcohol compliance checks with a den of occasion with the under age operative in the undercover stone police officer that assisted during this operation  each item of the general always read and both the under age operative and the police officer stated they understood what their goal was the main objective of reading the instructions to make sure that they understood that their goal their job was not to trick owners of new management and the staff consider the violation seriously taking it such a major change however has been the firing of the manager gordon hyde oh i  think most individuals here know he was the one time manager here it was also the regional manager he was fired right around the time of the incident who he has wife were also part owners under the new management and the operation of the restaurant owners really want to emphasize the food they want a restaurant they want quality food a new cook was actually hired approximately a year ago and they can be bringing on another cook were trained more on the registers cooking area and the serving area they're going to be relocated so they can keep an eye on patrons and so on a recording of trouble will be available they've recommended changes as to how things are operated just so for the board knows this clearly staff is on friday and saturday nights sundays of the patriots game or any other special occasion police chief a number of times the health agent for you board number of town manager another town employee to get a real understanding of the issues that are involved and were involved in the past all the restaurants the business as well as their companies and families and are committed to making changes here and one of those at the high bar high parcel that the expectations are higher in different than previously there were over twelve reports especially early on in two thousand and twelve there was only one so they really tried to improve the violation that happened and september bill was a violation committed to making the changes in talking with the town manager and town council who got this violation and we talked about a proposed settlement we went through a lot of things again we agreed to the finding of violation of serving alcohol beverage to a person under the age of twenty one we will not appeal a violation we'll make a gift to the top covering all costs with regard to legal fees and police or actually improved the written policy they have with regard to the use of the scanner and the criteria for requesting identification from the patrons and possibly a month utley agreement signed will provide that  outlined as their proposed settlement terms sort of the order that the settlement agreement goes this is very similar to the settled and agreement the board entered with black seas in may of two thousand and eleven again  would be agreeing to a finding of a violation and agreeing not to appeal that finding agreeing to a pro sixteen day suspension of the license covering the towns and costs associated investigation stipulation they would maintain their existing electronic scanner and come up with an updated set of procedures for using that scanner and for the criteria by which i've just dumbfounded it took a while to get a group of say regrouped or whatever but i could see the writing was on the wall going forward and we had to make meetings issues that come up and all the groups just like any probably we're not a chamber of this small family run place where we'd like to go into the communities outside of the bigger cities and suburbs where it's parking where people have to drive so it's just not common lot of places that have over serve and we will cut people off or and we do take training and tips certification in different states quite seriously  i would rather have had this here in fact in november to do this in gather from a business point of view and from the company we made a decision that we're going to have to hire somebody new which happened to be joe who's whatever early close and i was the life and death of our friday and saturday night business no bar could survive without that we're still here so to relate that try to make some type of impact on a community competition going to be close the public hearing until you've done that and decided if you're interested in us for not just in case there's public comment you would want to preclude that if the board is going to go shoot the terms once you get to the point where it's clear you've either negotiated the terms were you not going to be successful then this would be the time when you don't actually want to conduct the full blown public hearing so you can't do that if you've already closed it and we can discuss it amongst ourselves bill it's probably wise at this point where as kevin says it is a public hearings here because anyone in the public that would like to come up to the microphone and state their opinion or last file ation to retrain and the sort of things was that completed last time was that lip service i don't know if we have any way of knowing that or not and the other question i haven't know they're working on foxboro i listen to the story we've been frequenting the pub for quite some time and i do have to agree that in the early days we were we were going to the wacky o'connor it was more of a night club kind of an older crowd we didn't really want to go there with new management and i see the changes changing the menu the venue it's doing a lot more for foxborough i'd definitely go after agree with what frank has to say those one question that was proposed was discuss it amongst ourselves and if we've got a more questions we can kind of compile them and get them all answered at once so my think the president is if we're interested in new management isn't this changed the whole significance of the feline no violations everything the man that was in charge of the restaurant is no longer know it associated with the restaurant culture within it especially if they want to run a very responsible family community oriented restaurant and not how it was run previously as told you no i i think you had a right it was shipped here for a while and violation occurred at same time because of it or not because it doesn't matter but it did occur but the overall ownership is still the same so not the case had there not been a change of manager had there not been a change of stockholders had there not been all of the other things put into place and this would have been a fourth  the steps that have been taken here it appears that the ownership is making a sincere effort to impose on themselves with their own for a very substantial penalty to und and frankly i would say i would suggest to the board that it's one of two things if you are of a mind that if the charges if true and you don't know yet if they are because i would be determined after a full hearing but if you have a mind that if the charges were for the d deserve another chance and this would be absolutely the last chance for them settlement agreement structured like this is a very strong full offer this is a strong offer is a sixteen day penalty with many many other conditions and frankly when you're putting on the record for a third violation or is this case the fourth one i wish and it doesn't really matter where there's a ten day suspension or three hundred days suspension whatever it is if th agreement that would be no contest of the suspension is on the record irrespective of how long the suspension is if there is another event after this within the two year window maybe or by i won't provide three years you've got one mile ation from a b c see that will age it will toll in about two months off the three year window you get to others at this board conducted fourteen fifteen months ago during your file those will stay on the record for another year and a half or more so basically if you decide that you're going to give this establishment a new management another chance you're basically saying to them if there were any incidents in roughly or about the next two years you're out of business and if there aren't welcome back to the community will be going to be a good responsible contributing corporate citizen that's basically the choice before you thanks if if there's an attitude or if it's people are receptive to work towards this negotiated settlement then let's get that off the table first if people are not willing to do it for whatever reason i mean that's the quote of the brian it's has some of the same all i would suggest is that if there is an inclination of the board to suspend rather than revoke you consider doing the space the suspension through the settlement agreement where you have a licensee agreeing not to appeal and licensee coming forward with proposals as to what they're willing to do isn't it much easier road for you to go down if you're more inclined to consider revocation you probably would want to  do that on your around there so we're not going to agree to that what i would add with regard to a full blown over injury hearing you have the attorney for the applicant and the applicant i'm sorry the licensee stipulating before you that they a discussion of past violations which are on record in terms of how that would enter into your decision making but again if the board is inclined to suspend rather than revoke i suggest that you had that discussion through the settlement agreement proposal which would be much easier for you to go down make us if we give them another chance to we have to by law to give the next opportunity just somebody else's it created a whole nother open door of going to five the sort of stand up for i don't believe so i mean the thing to keep in mind is the board has broad discretion when granting modifying suspending revoking licenses for very broad discretion and your own regulations you give yourself guidelines with respect to sanctions you're not bound to them their guidelines and so i think you would retain the freedom to make decisions as you see fit each license is different each licensee is different and each set of circumstances is different so that they would want to share i would consider suspension instead of revocation and suggest that we go in that direction i think the changes that have been made that have been made  significant very different from the last discussion we had when the axes was in front of us and i think  the suggestions really indicate a commitment on their part to do things differently so i'm surprised to hear myself saying this but i am leaning towards a discussion of suspension you know problem in the past with not understanding the laws of foxborough on i don't think that the the people that now are operating the business should suffer the degree of consequence that we could put down just come up from florida so he wasn't aware of the whole sensitive you situation i think used to the world right there for enterprise here my sought for this too but i would be inclined to try and work with these people one more time anywhere else i just had a question when it was stated that the employee was fired for this violation when you mean fired does that mean never ever to be rehired  revoking the licenses it's not just these folks that are here tonight it's you know the waiters and waitresses and and the cooks to happen the thing that i do want to stay as frank is you have done  almost fought with the officer basically about the statement that was given and i'm i don't appreciate that i don't appreciate the fact that john and management team basically sat here and and didn't say anything and left it up to the lawyer to say everything i appreciate your statement this evening market i did hear this several months ago about we were getting new and new menu to come in and nothing's going to change around and i personally have been in the so i don't know what's changed i mean asli management has changed and you know how seriously we take it and  words have got to take it as serious as a heart attack no disrespect on that but this is this is hard but i feel a little better probably because of the way that frank presented it in that you actually came and spoke to me that it helps the cause and so i think i'd be in the the police in the fire you know the public safety people do they feel that there there's been an obvious change in the in the way business is conducted up there and are they satisfied with the facility others are not it will decrease and incidents that are occurring which were radically escalating the last time this particular facility was before the board to me it's evident that there's a better good faith effort on the part of the new management team to manage the facility and to try and bring about some significant changes you i've got a couple thoughts i mean for the two and a half years or so that i've been here we've spent a tremendous amount of time on y axes regulations were completely revamp and if you look at the regulations says for us first violation letter of reprimand etc second violation suspension third violation suspension fourth violation revocation of license each step that we went through with axes we said this is your first violation we take it seriously this is your second violation take it seriously i truly wish attorney's plane was involved before the eleventh hour what i do recall as i recall attorney fines were not being forthcoming being a base of denying it in violation went from one to two from two to three and now is no three a in three b and three c it goes to violation what i'm concerned about is all the other little stabs meant that we have when we continue to say one more we're getting close to the fourth one more getting closer the fourth three strikes you're going on to the fourth then we get to the fourth and no matter who the applicant or who the establishment is of course are going to come to us and say we're revamping we learned the hard way  we get it now what are you going to say when there's an issue next week and nothing changed because you know i know businesses flow down a little bit and they're changing but when when we go through the efforts and the police go through the efforts and they hire people outside to kind of police it we've done everything we can to work with them and we're still getting this i mean if you look at this packet this operative looks like she's sixteen she sits at the bar they give her a beer if you remember when we went through all the other issues not too long ago they released pulled it back where they were they recognized it i don't think they're any closer to getting it today than they were you know back in june july and august i really don't and i think you know how many times we're going to say one more and now we're going on to the fifth violation and one of those violations from the state is going to drop off so if something happens again we're not even close to the fourth again so again it is that  you know my point is we've said it before and we said it before we really have in my opinion i'm just you know i've been down i've been to this dance a couple times now with the same establishment and we've given them you know take it as serious as a heart attack we're serious about this we've written new regulations you've got three strikes in the fourth when you're out we're at the out and i just don't see you know as much as i'd like to see any business succeed i think the detriments of giving them a fifth try on this it's just it's too it's too much too to take a chance in my opinion i'm just i'm not considering any type of settlement on this at this point i think that if the  only changes that were made were started at the level of firing that employee i would be feeling the same way as you but i think because there's been a significant change in the management and partial change in ownership that you know to me those are serious steps that were taken to turn around a situation that none of those had not been taken before so i guess i'm just asking that consideration be given to that these are guidelines we could have some day unfortunately find ourselves in a situation where first violation is going to mean revocation because of the seriousness of it i think that there are guidelines to help us with these decisions but  this is a serious as all the other violations i just think that the steps taken indicate a commitment on their part that this will not happen again because it can't happen again it was a very difficult time it was very difficult it was a loss my mistake was just respect for the board the police it was very difficult to be part of and it was a lot of pushing and shoving back and i don't feel that this time around i've feel a new presence that you know it's time we're not going to we're not constructive i can feel positively that just is going to happen again i just have to go my gut feeling on that and i respect everything you say jim because exactly how i figured i'd be coming here firing like you know what enough to not that's it and i think what i stated best at six in mean she's been more severe than any of us when it comes to you know violations and the attorney you said to us that we are on our god lives we can approach anybody's afford any issues me that if somebody comes in that we can treat them as a  fourth and rather kate or we can you know move forward again and i'm going to go with it on this to this time around that's it and i'm not saying you know this is it i'm in a cave you had a big speech in the threats i just think i think they get it i think you'll be a and asset to the community and sort of a detriment i think is it's going to go one more chance with me on this and dollar me down guys because if it goes that way because it's i have to listen to the people we all sit here and we all have to listen to the constituents in this town no matter how we vote we're going to get some nasty phone calls tomorrow whether it's positive for you or against you quoted people in the community come up to me don't make a come back here again because i really don't want to hea violation and that it can that be in the settlement happens in to anything happening just to make the first like men in the public feel little better about this that we are taking this seriously you you know the establishment is taking it seriously it's a very different kind of a violation obviously much much more egregious so you're going lines are meant to be precisely what they say guidelines he would not bound by them and a b c c would look at them  's always useful to keep in mind that i guess my question is if you're looking to put a condition on this settlement that says one more in we can revoke it if they decline if they their feeling is not to do that looking for so let's say let's say next saturday there was a alleged violation they would turn your local license into the talent and told the public airing we're not just it's not just lip service i mean we are definitely definitely serious about what happens on going forward i mean i wasn't on the board the last time around but it seems to me the biggest problem that we exhale con is head was its management mr hyde and that it seems from what i've heard what i've read he let a lot of things happen which were  lawful in many ways he's not in the picture anymore and it seems like as frank said the culture has changed and i would like to give them the benefit of the doubt that that the culture has changed and but i also want assurances from them and i want the public to be assured that if anything happens again that's it the benefit of the doubt is absolutely gone law all the time but the only reason i would caution you against that number one no bar owner or councils are going to agree that because they're putting their head in a noose they're saying we agree that our license is gone if there's any kind of a violation without knowing what kind of a violation it was and they always want the right to come before you and argue that there's mitigating circumstances which you should consider or not provoke from your point of view i would also suggest that you don't want that kind of agreement on licensing matters because the law presumes that for each and every violation you're going to give a public hearing you're going to look at the facts and if you make a decision so picture this six months from now we do know other compliance check once again when actually serves a minor if there's a last chance in this theoretically it's revoked immediately with the benefit of a hearing that goes on board has to consider suspension as opposed to revocation i would advise that you continue to do so in the context of self agreements i think that's in the board's interest as well where the board needs to make a vote now no you can continue discussing continue seek additional penalties against the licensee including further suspension or revocation of the license so in that fashion through this agreement they're already on a tighter leash than other licensees in town in that in addition to the normal laws of the have to comply with in any conditions in the license they have this additional agreement they have to comply with in terms of training maintaining the electronic scanner coming in giving you periodic reports of violation of one of those provisions they're already agreeing that they recognize that might result in further suspension or revocation so it's it's there they have been using the noose now jobs i like the tighter leash they're already on a tighter leas the town and a donation towards a beneficiary beneficial or group like mad or sad and that not a line if it's what the place in sea is going to agree to through a settlement agree well i would tend to amend the settlement agreement to ten thousand dollars restitution to the town to help and further and police training  provision when we give them the bill is probably in the range of two thousand maybe a little more but might around there so that's not a ten thousand dollar offer to the board that  the offer to the board to cover council fees and our expenses the rosses is probably worth somewhere between two and three thousand was way less than ten thousand just so you can also bushing understand you have no authority to impose fines and fees and things like that in fact you're on very families are just us counsel you know he just gave me an answer kevin's dot's why directed him to answer the question she said to me exactly that i can say anything that they tend to agree with correct you can since this is a settlement agreement that the licensee will be agreeing to you if through that under the terms of the agreement they were green to make the gifts stated and the amount total in ten thousand for public safety five thousand to mad or sad but a total of top pick teen ten thousand public safety five thousand things how i feel about it is i'd rather have them take the money that they have and spend it on the training i'd like to know a little bit more about the s endorsed by the chief it's a id scanner detection it has sixty security checks i know one of the things that mr brown had asked was how we used it it's actually pretty simple you slide it  and they know what they're doing that everyone is pretty comfortable i mean basically the way that we use it is monday through wednesday and maybe sunday if the patriots on playing basically everyone on staff has been tipped certified it's on file so as far as a standard id if it's not a duplicate of it's not out of state we just take the idea we feel pretty confident that the staff is trained and that if someone comes with a nod of state id we use the machine obviously for thursday night friday night saturday night we set it up front for the busy nights but we really don't have a problem now with out of state i d s before the policy was to forms of backup i d but it's kind of been eliminated with the machine incident didn't happen on the weekend you know it happened on a thursday i mean yes just as you know another thing mr brown it said the policies that were in place last time before i think i  may be the oldest employee there now and when they're hearing went on before i never saw it but gordon did come in and kind to say this is what we have to do and there was a policy put in place all the employees had to sign it but there's really no policing and when the man in charge is kind of setting the tone for what's going on a kind of trickles down but yeah it was just we made a mistake is what it comes down to and  where there was a regular there and he does hang out with a bunch of people he called someone over it was a really good employee of ours the situation you do something to a million times she saw and can use or you kill the merits of this was something going on and these are your tests are high and you can't show off yet i wanted to know about the scanner and i just feel that i would rather have them take that money and spend it on you know making their improvements that they costs are pretty low you know pretty well below the ten thousand dollars there's still significant gift to the town that could be used for public safety training so you know i am comfortable with the ten thousand dollars because i want the balance to go to public safety and i'm not interested in an additional ten plus five just the first t on that so if the board's intent is to provide some money for police department training my suggestion is just make it a gift of whatever amount you want and just have a different for police department training and don't try to split off pieces of it because frankly at the end of the day if the end of the day it's all the same but you know if it's intent to provide training to the p d which is always very very helpful to just make it a set amount police department training and that's easy to administer otherwise you're going to have to have them doesn't know what each piece of that's for is a gift so that it goes to those purposes because they've got a legal right to describe with a gift is going you obviously so i would suggest lorraine into a scene to do that it's what it yeah you want to piece to go to the legal fee and you want to say it's two thousand and that's going to go into the general it would exceed that it might by a little bit but you know i can't give you the percent the precise amount sitting here i just got to mention the irony of this yes we're putting money in a fund to train the police and have i was sitting home watching this and i had talked to jim and i've talked to linda quite a bit about this i was one and i'm not sure if you were here the last time but i was one of the passionate there was another mother very passionate about the last violation and when i first heard about this violation i was that's it i got to go what i see tonight happening here is i see you've come in and you pummeled yourself and you've basically put yourself out there to the board and to the town and i applaud the police department for doing their job as jim just  said so i have to disagree with you mark i don't think that you need to give them money for training i'm sorry i think this is becoming very complicated and that's why i got up through close on and got here i think frank has presented it the last meeting that we sat here there was not one person on the side of wax he's apologized for their behavior because the attorney would not allow anyone to do that so i think you've done a wonderful job presenting i think you have an awful lot of if i've got it all right in my head there are an awful lot of conditions on this over and above a sixteen day suspension  and you know how i feel about this we've talked a lot about this from my aspect you've done what you needed to do you fire gordon high which was he was a huge problem  and everybody in this room knows that you have hired a new manager you're putting in you're changing it from a perspective of my nephews and my nieces as if it's the place to go to a party it's the place to go and drink and over drink and i had said that the last time i was here and there were underage drinking going there was underage drinking going in there before now we're catching it  me i'm not sitting there and i'm not getting the phone calls you're getting the phone calls from me when just getting the phone calls from me but from my perspective of where i was then to where i am now i see a total difference in the attitude of the owners the management the attorney and i'm for me frank's putting himself on the line by representing them because he lives in this town and he has he's going to have to put up with it and i just think it's getting hopeful kate it is so convoluted all we're going to take ten thousand and put ten thousand here in five thousand there they have nooses around the neck not one there's multiple nooses around their neck and if i understand correctly what our attorney said i know you want it written they're not going to wear greta it the next violation they're gone they're not going to agree to that nobody that knows anything about the law would agree to that but you have the ability within the guidelines that lorraine and the chief have gone through and dave brown and that whole committee that if something happens again you come back you have another hearing and then the five of you can say you're gone that's my perspective and i wasn't really sure i was waffling about people not having jobs and losing money and they just don't care they don't care about the town they don't care that just want to make their money i don't see that happening this time and maybe that's just me maybe because i'm not feeling good i don't know but i just had to come up because i knew you knew where i stood and i had to come up and give you my opinion and i just this whole money thing now you in five minutes five minutes that's how long it took me to get here you've gone from ten thousand and five thousand to eight thousand and two i'm like  just i think you need to look at it on the merits of what has been given for a settlement and then it can be written and i don't know i'm assuming it can be written that next hearing the probability will be there that there will be no more chances as jenny said not necessarily saying that this is going to be it but there's a probability that that's going to happen so i'm going t five minutes go back home and hopefully you will get it straightened out and i hope to god that you know the board goes and gives you another chance you're welcome thank you gary thanks for coming out and more importantly thank you for dressing  and i said already have a good night guilt if you will is in the documents i've already agreed to them all i would suggest is you if you can come to an agreement with the licensee as your final part of your motion to accept the agreement whatever you come up with you vote a finding of a violation because the greens are stipulate that the board found a violation of serving i am a person to the age of twenty one and i have the bisons the agrees that the board made that finding and that they will so in the past we've had written ones but does someone want to make a motion that there has been violations and that we as a point of fact that end as part of the settlement agreement want me durham one motion yes really because you can't reach a finding of fact until you've had a hearing the only way of making a finding of fact is pursuant to the settlement agreement that's a tiny but externally important distinction maybe we should agreement come to terms with the licensee vote on whether or not you want the agreement part of that motion make the finding as part of the terms of the settlement agreement a violation so to that end there are seventeen agreement attorneys plan other any other pending violations that are at the state that we're not aware of i mean there riyadh that issue last time where there was a parallel path they were dealing with violations at the sta and to make a statement with a mission to accept a statement mission of the violation on said date o opposed to both the settlement agreement that ship has sailed so looks like we're going in that direction and i would support this i guess and solitary with the board and a request  actually a hope that this business is successful and can kind of turn its way in command attorneys plan for jumping in and i think you have put your neck out on this one that they would you realize it because you're us when it came to the deep research on this project the town asset review committee was appointed by the board of selectmen to look at ways to potentially monetize our assets that currently aren't generating any tax revenues in our meeting when we first started looking at this project we were looking both at the sale of assets from from the standpoint that we could get funds that could be used for defraying costs of any future capital projects such as you know we've been talking about schools the town hall renovation all those major capital projects that are coming up so we knew that these assets could potentially generate additional tax revenues so in addition to getting the funds from the sale the assets the ongoing tax revenues going forward from the development of some of these assets could in the long run improve our revenue stream ultimately town meeting approval of expenditures is required so any funds that would be obtained by say selling these assets in order for them to be spent approval what we worked on was first coming up with a process of refreshing all of the data that had been compiled asli there was a committee in place called the land review committee mark served on it i think for a period of time and  they had come forward with a very large list of properties to be looked at and they included properties that were controlled by water and sewer by conservation and so we first we had to figure out how we were going to do this so we decided to use the munis system of the vision system from assessor's office to identify the list of actionable properties there are about two hundred eighty of them covering twenty six hundred acres and during that review we actually found that there were pretty thirty parcels that were not listed or not found yes so as we went through these lists we also removed any of the open space residential development is that correct or the o s r d parcels any control by the schools water and conservation they were removed from the list in addition we looked at tax lien properties these were reviewed and photographed gary white house and randy scholars went out and photographed all of the properties that fell into this category to catalog them we have a package there on the on the table that shows photographs and matches them to the map and these properties included eleven nonresidential parcels there were thirteen parcels that were considered lands of low value and they were to build a bull lots identified eight fell into the category of foreclosure attacks possession and twenty seven were actually residential properties that fell into this category for a total of sixty one properties that we're viewed now the tax type of properties have liens that are perfected at the registry of deeds nineteen of those have actually had foreclosure initiated upon them and when that happened that resulted in approximately four hundred thousand dollars in tax payments as a result of in the taking that first step so that was very positive we talked about the textile possession list at that time and tried to narrow it down eventually we ended up looking at what are the low hanging fruit that we can pick off of these lists to look at for possible sale we did get approval from the board of selectmen to fund the deed research and also perform an appraisal of the fire station which i also have on the desk there and the deed research was performed by james cupola who is the town tax title attorney our short list of recommended properties to consider for sale the fire station which was appraised without sewer value appraised was four hundred seventy thousand dollars we also  recommend twenty one market street which is the former funeral home care explain road was brought forward as a request private request also pine acres road which is a landlocked parcel was also requested for us to take a look at and we wanted to discuss again camp lincoln hill the oak street five form a lots there total estimated value of these properties based  appraisal from a couple years ago is approximately one point six eight million dollars another property that we have discussed in our meetings is the auditorium located over on pace and road on the old state hospital property supported by water and sewer commissioners and the planning board the planning board i spoke with them i spoke with kevin one felt they had taken a vote in the past to support this and i've asked that i come before them to talk to them again about it for a more current vote on that conservation commission opposes the sale ultimately tell meeting approval to sell the oak street lots is required there was a vote taken back in one thousand nine hundred seventy four regarding these oak street properties the town voted to purchase them for recreation and conservation use and  d not place them under chapter forty but so that that's really a question i think in terms of research in related to that vote kevin is speaking with our town had walked that same property they actually found a threatened species on the property last weekend which was very exciting it's a white marble cell mander marble salamander out shows the layout of those five blocks and you can see off the back of the property there are some oval shapes down the depressions those are all wetlands back there and  the salamanders were walking around i guess swimming around in there at this time so that is certainly being that it's an indeed a threatened species that is certainly something that would have to be taken into consideration whatever development did go on in that area the auditorium on pacing road we also discussed we would have to get go for special legislation to request approval to sell this property and again within our group the discussion was such that we thought there would be definite interest by the developer for that property so we did want to pursue that next time proposals provided that information to our group and we voted five zero to support the seacoast group as the auctioneer group and they have more than twenty years of experience in this field and they've auction properties for a number of towns norton bill rekha sells perry sandwich and westboro part of the proposal involves a buyer's premium that premium covers all of the town's costs related to this auction but is paid by the buyer so there is no cost impact to the town and that's a certain percentage that's negotiated on top of the sale price of the asset zico scruple also develop the marketing plan they would notify arbiters and ensure that all legal requirements are met so that we can have a good auction of these properties so the next step really are to work with the group to update the tax lien property list take a look at that again see where we are now we're a couple of years later since we've compiled that list revisit update the possible foreclosure list to see if there are any properties out there that now fall into this category funding for it's here to study of market street property we want to look at that since it was a funeral home to make sure that there haven't been any problems with hazardous waste before we would put that up for auction so that buyers would know what they were getting into and then we would need to develop warrant articles for special legislation for the order tourism sale and ultimately oak street properties is our is our hope and that's it more stuff at home mike i'm telling you because i was heavily involved in jaycee's way back when and michael for it really had pressed to get that that building sell i now that it is deemed to be only used for the same type of venue that it was in the past which was for recreation non profit so i'd like to see is there the legislation yes so that's why i would take legislation to change that so if there is a document someplace if we can cough that up or something i'd be interested in that as well as just being a j c and all of the history that goes on with the old saint i know it's under the recreation board right now but you know again it has history and  the fire station itself i didn't know where you folks had reached out to the planning board now the yes thanks historical committee on that actually no we didn't on the fire station i did go before the planning board and talked about you know wanted to get some ideas that they had in terms of uses for that and we talked about the whole master plan process and waiting to see how that evolved in an when the time came for auction of the property to take into consideration what came out of the master plan what the desires were to see in that location basically those two pieces of property as soon as possible of auction and somehow use some of that you know marks on that money to investigate other situations planning board is focusing its master plan on the downtown area and that's their single highest priority and i think is going indicated i think everybody feels that the right action is to wait till the master plan is done which should be later this spring early summer see what they recommend for the fire station and the whole area and be sure that whatever sale we do is consistent with those goals because that plan about a half an inch of stuff that was given to me this weekend on marble santa's manners salamanders what i'm hoping is that there's a compromise in there that we can arrive at fairly soon which allows some part of our property sale to go forward and everybody basically you know gives a little and we've and we do it's good for the town so i'm hoping as a compromise in there i frankly would hate to see it come down to a war tom meeting because then some is going to lose and somebody's going to win and i don't know who that is but just strikes me that's not the right way for town government to work you know we should all work together see if we have the compromise think it's on them so we're not bonanni things tonight she's is there a way you can put a covenant on that lot that it can't be used for a future access to that it's sold at auction to the property behind it would you open up for a large amount of development if that was possible because that's a key way to get into twenty acres or so that i could you know otherwise only unlock at this point and i wouldn't if it could be detrimental to the town to have some another huge development and that area did i mean can you put some kind of covenant on it before selling it as a lot not to exceed going into the backfield but say you could put whatever conditions on it you want you can of done sales want to hear from the planning board on that from some of the consensus was that this sale was going to create doubt and we didn't want that to happen very easy to put a deed restriction on it before the sale very easy but i think what it's in the evaluation i hundred fifty thousand that's more in line of the form and then the piece that's going to open up the other stuff so that you know they were wetlands back there too in the not that lot souls that the town inherited one was the auditorium one was a line new building they had a stipulation to be used for recreational type purposes we had a discussion with the border of  the cost of rehabilitating those two buildings this extensive amount of money given our track record as a town taking care of our existing buildings we thought the likelihood of us being able to do that we talked with them  about the need for them to quote sign off on that they have in fact sent a letter to the previous board of selectmen saying that they weren't interested in that and that the town needed to take control of that and do with it as it may i'm sure you can get that back if you can't find that document i'm sure they will be happy to resubmit it the laundry building is it is a different  animal there's a lot of stuff there it is going to folks that will have interest in that the town or the director but it is because landlocked so we haven't really as a group talked about that the piece of cat path the hoses that went in there did not go on under site plan review that is a private road great steps are going to have to be taken for that become a publicly accepted road that area sense that project started and the determination was made by him which you would have to obviously get verified but we were told that for future development to go down there it would have to go through site plan review which means bringing that road to standards and making it accessible by the properties behind it so that particular property is going to be very tricky for the town manager and group to tiptoe through because of the history of that project and i'll keep walking by things since you're up there on the parcel the landlocked between cranberry pine in cross street looks involved in the lincoln hill project way back and we voted at that time this is probably two thousand and why no so we thought it was a good is providing whatever protection would be needed to protect the wells and stuff at that time and we did not support of full fledged development at that time you know nor do we know they are not a different possible on this so we have a possible looking at to auction off the pine acres cranberry and crossed in the plan but hasn't looked at th remember but then individual came in here one night and chatted with the about it and we explained it was being looked after by committee are you confusing it with the bill buckley senior property that was behind his house yes i am that's the one that know it has a lot of history but the fire station in the the roberts behind it i looked at it briefly but it's heating it's like eating sorry four hundred seventy thousand is good for a year i mean that value but it has no sewer that was with no price doubles what consideration is that in that schedule on the next steps to develop timing for the auction i think we'd have to get through do we have to bring see that done and have dollar with a point of board about what you know what do people in the community want with respect to those properties because the sale can guide can you know you can structure the sale so tightly that you can produce exactly what you want from a wire on the property or you can just sell it and then it's catch as catch can and there's also the sewer issue which is the border where we're making great progress on and i would say as early as july potentially we could officer on those properties which greatly enhance their valleys so a lot of things have to come together i don't see where any auction is imminent in the next three or four months because he wants a good chunk of property so we can attract the really big crowd because that gets a lot of excitement a lot of being for the town and i don't see enough property coming together in the next three or four months that we're going to be able to move on so i think well i think commission is looking at and aside from the salamander if you take the five four may in in give access it was was is there still access to the back even with these  now what i had read on the history of this in the in the early seventy seventy four it was voted and it was recommended by the recreation and conservation that would be open space and they even think that i go had his hands in this man through a clerical error it doesn't show up on the deed as open space even though the town voted it so you know i envision this conservation commission and records going to look at it and give their two cents if it moves forward the bigger picture went to town meeting voters something for open space even though it was a clerical error in that there's no eyes on the dots on the i's and t s for one voter to say i'm buying this for open space and then to change it without going back to the voters or correcting that you know is that i get well meaning anyway you have to go back to town meeting for one of two things either to properly put it under conservation and or recreation protection under the statute is a very specific way that has to be done which is why it wasn't recorded because it wasn't done properly or you have to go back to town meeting for permission to sell it what i think is going to happen and what i'm very hopeful that we're going to work some compromises out here so some very important natural assets i e the marble salamander habitat could be preserved and while maybe we don't get the  subset of it you know i do think there's some compromising it needs to happen here for the good of the community and that dialogues going back right way at the end of the day you know nobody's going to win if only one party wins for just not close not going to work because then i some minutes from back in one nine hundred seventy four when there actually is a sentence here that mr fox outlined history the property since offered for sale he was a selectman at the time and said it was the town will want full use of the property after a few years this was being discussed in context of the j c the state j c group running the camp buildings that are at the front so i think i would interpret that to mean because this is how i would want to i would interpret that to mean that you know the intent was to have it for recreation or conservation purposes is why it was purchase but not to be managed under chapter forty it was never stated that way it was we're going to buy this so that we can use it we're using it for recreation for now we want it back at some point that's how i interpret these minutes from seventy f yeah but i also read all the documents i read the letters even you know the minutes and all that and basically said open space is diminishing people are developing we want to protect it it was seventy thousand dollars and it was more for open space passive recreation you know there are buildings out there but if i was back in the seventy's that in raise my hand to vote to put five houses not to say it's a bad thing if we can come up with a compromise and look they talked about it in the minutes that  yeah they talked about the development but said that would hurt the ability to do the recreation piece for the camp so that's why i know and i think that's they went through that exercise and said he would rather have it open i mean this is a dialogue that  public come for this but he just come to the microphone and produce yourself i'm judy johnson i'm on the conservation commission i just wanted to comment on the you know the finding of the mar salamander this is a threatened species and the state of massachusetts and it is protected under the endangered species act massachusetts endangered species act so with that kind of a permeating requirements through the state for any type of activity with then five hundred to a thousand meters of this fertile pool that goes way over oak street o the other side and it also would require to do anything there you'd have to do a pretty extensive study with experts to determine how the salamanders are moving around  salamanders use the vernal pool for breeding but they live in the uplands and so you'd have to determine how the salamanders are moving into the pool how critical these these terrestrial habitats are around the pool and did these studies can take years a couple couple years and that's a requirement under the under the state the endangered species act so i just wanted to caution you that it's not it's not just the conservation commission there are other laws that are involved here aside from the wetland protection act also you know the conservation commission is opposed to this these you know not to cut you off to do the conservation commission vote on this yes yes voted on this proposal where they voted on it yes they took a vote at a at a meeting and it was a majority of the board that were opposed to the sale of the oak street property did not feel it was excess to surplus to our needs  there is an article ninety seven which protects open space and saying that this property was purchased for the purpose of open space and recreation we feel as though the article night it should article ninety seven should apply to this property as such you would have to go through a process that involves a majority vote from the commission two thirds vote of town meeting to sell the land a special act of the state legislation to be able to access the property and there's also a no net loss polity policy so it would have to be nice to have some other land to swap of equal value so i just thought i'd bring those points up you know those issues are all being researched ok as we speak and i so i don't want to be contradictory but i think julie has a perspective on it which from a factual legal point of view may or may not be correct we're still researching that article ninety seven protection is not yet the massachusetts and put it under conservation protection if you will and conduct active recreation on the same parcel of land you have to subdivide it and you have to indicate which is which in this case what appeared happened is that there was a vote to conduct recreation and conservation purposes neither statute was stated no subdivision plan was shown so what you really have is a is a likely a fatally flawed vote in terms of what was the intent of the voters was it one possible explanation i've read all the documents newspaper reports etc was that in talk to a number of people from my collection one possible explanation is that the back land was to be conservation and the front land was to be recreation i e the camp was to be rehabbed and run and it appears that's what the intent was before they ever got to the point where the camp funds were requested to rehab the camp which would have been very minimal in those days a lengthy period of time passed for reasons i can't find the camp was not rehabilitated  recreation went on to have greater interest in the property near the near the state park and and opened up you know a fairly extensive program there  pool and in the property of about the school and never exercised anything any real plans over on oak street most of that fell into disrepair a lot of the buildings were raised a number of years ago the to the left are condemned so you can't even rehab the buildings anymore so what are we left foot a very very unclear picture in terms of what the voters wanted  legally fatally flawed vote which is why i say and i'm i have requested a legal opinion so we'll have that soon and i've given town council all the background information pulling everything from conservation commission  soon we'll have a legal opinion i think will give us a little clarity but irrespective of what everyone hopes or thinks it one thing is abundantly clear it's got to go back to a town meeting for a vote if the intent is to put it under conservation protection and if the intent is to allow some part of it to be used that also has to be voted by con com which is why i continue to say i suspect there's a compromise in here i don't quite yet see it but i think the risk because i don't want to have the risk that people representing what they'd like to see happen you know try to do something definitive and other interests aren't accommodated that would be a shame ok so it sounds like point seven million this is almost half of it so there's a lot of work to be done there is in the listing on the of the day of the state list of species mobile cell mentors is a huge event because so one of the other well i will say this that there's quite a range of what's going to happen i will say this actually it is not the case that the state has automatic jurisdiction over five hundred or a thousand foot buffer under the statute there is indeed we're looking to to retrofit a mall and expand it for slots there's legislation specific to if a development is going into a town next to you or a town that's going to impact you what the ramifications the mitigation and all those and this isn't just this isn't a money grab saying somebody's going to do it if they do in plainville what do we get i think we need to look at what the development is and look at the think when i think impacts you know wanted two or three or five years but also ten twenty thirty years because this whatever is going to go in if it ends up in plainville may expand it may bring businesses away from foxborough traffic impact and all that stuff so at the very least the first step i wanted the gaming commission to commune front of our board to explain the regulations explain what an abiding impact of community is and what our rights are so i've got a john from the mass gaming commission committed to february twenty sixth at seven thirty he's going to come in and explain the gaming commission in approach and hopefully we can get a relationship going with what we need to do next and i would say yes and put a committee together and it was my intent to form a tonight until we know what the scope of the commitment in action is but think about who would be on that committee you know tracy and chris expressed some interest i don't know if any any other people but would hire our own consultants to look at that and see what our impact may be that things that we haven't thought about and then be in a better position to say if and when it goes forward where in the equation and if and have come forward fill it out so that when we do have the twenty meeting on the twenty seventh what is it why some of us are five or twenty six every twenty six that's the deadline to try and get on the committee and then we can have people come forward in the next meeting and into the interviews and have a committee formed and said you know prolong it i agree with all that other than i wouldn't put a deadline of the twenty six i think people need to hear what it's all about and see if they're interested in then you know this just a question for the board because some folks are calling us and we didn't know what to do would it make sense to the board very awful nooner stablish you know a new committee i haven't been here with you since we've had a new one but well the boards of work for will actually write down what it is that the board wants the committee to do i e noticed charge rather than appoint a committee and then sort of sort of loose and goodness knows what's go end up happening and so it's just a way for the board to be a little more focused my question for the board is if you were interested in doing that when you want the charge to be in place before you started asking for volunteers because right now the volunteers don't that's my opinion anybody could well what do we speak to the family commission we may have a better idea of what they're expecting and then we may it may be beneficial to maybe seek someone in the community that maybe not a volunteer you know but maybe after hearing with the game commission is saying we may say you know what i think such and such a person with his business background or is some kind of background might be a good good hunk of us live that it's just going to affect us but it will affect the entire town as they're going to drive it up here you know ok how's it going to affect somebody on the beach street well just like in the morning when we leave spruce street to come up here if it's seven fifteen or so you're going to hit traffic from high school so you take the back roads if you know you went through the country roads and and that's kind of where spur street is but it's going to happen if somebody is going to rule on in this something at the stadium then they might cut down beach street to go through the center of town so with this whole thing if it goes in a plane ridge will affect the entire town so putting a committee together i think it would be good to have people from all sections of the town on the committee because you know like i said people always will find a shortcut to any place they go you know the thing is find out how far down the road from the gaming commission and we can you know study study yeah so and you know a few questions they've got to cover the town costs for any of the surveys traffic studies any of that you know it's right on point you know and i look i mean you first inclination is traffic so you know study what the level of service a is in a back road and if it business from everywhere and if the starting to pull businesses from patriot place you know that they're going to go there instead that i think is a another living to look at say plain ridge does get it who knows who's going to get it what happens five six seven years down the road if they're doing incredibly well gamble and commissions everything's going good they play marriage want you know open up a full blown casino you kno there is one you know casino for each region well you can't if the slot machine is the slot pilot is going to go into one of those regions so they wouldn't have liked to casinos in that region the legislation it wasn't hope i didn't scare any of you guys with a package of data that i gave you five down one of the things that we have found is spent about five years maybe a little over five years since the fire department even looked at their fees structures and started to determine where we are we sit when looking at the area and looking at the region and so on and so on in the whole process of starting to look at our numbers i reached out to no four county fire chiefs to say what's everybody doing for permit fees and it was we're not the only community it's hasn't updated our fees in a while and so i end up getting tasked by you know for county chiefs to also do an analysis for all the fire chiefs so what right now i've got about seventy percent of the data in and i'm not looking for you folks to you know make a vote or anything like that i got all this data i feel it's important for us to to look at our fees i think it would be very important for me to hear from the selectmen hear from the ad com to give the town manager and myself some of their insight and that's why in my cover letter to the town manager i had suggested getting a small committee to gather to look at this data kind of look at where we sit in the immigrant city average that's one of the reports that i showed you and then there was one i gave you some recommendations after deputy chief bagley and i started this kind of looking at a little bit some of the areas that other towns are really a pretty consistent i made some ideas and recommendations but again it's all in draft as you notice i made very clear i put draft on  because i really do feel it's important that i get some feedback from you folks from the ad com so that the town manager and i can make a final recommendation to the full board  the couple and most of the board we did this with all the other departments actually two years ago and we did whatever reason we didn't do the fire department all the other departments have already gone through this  time we have somewhere around a couple hundred businesses tied directly into the master box now if you weren't tied into the master box you would have to buy that same service a merchant salami d p somebody like that you couldn't buy the service that we offer because you have to go to the intermediary who then after they get your column verified then calls public safety so this is actually the penultimate service this is not available in the private market in the private market we're suggesting a two hundred dollars annual fee in the private market you pay much more than that for an inferior service i e a t p whatever because they've still got a call us with this service it's direct to the fire department microwave system we told the businesses that we would not charge a fee it's now been seven years so whatever it is that the business had to do to accommodate that has been long ago amortized to the extent that we do not charge a fee because this is an expensive system to operate we are putting this on the backs of the homeowner who is getting no value but is paying for it and the business owner who's getting all the value i e doesn't have to go buy a private service and gets better service than they could anyways they're getting it essentially for free so if it's the board intent if it's the board's intent they have this be a tax payer funded service which we offer you know to a small number of businesses at no cost that's fine that's a that's a decision you you are certainly within your rights to make but i think it's just the right a perfect having i'm sorry it's interesting way to put saying is that if the board wants to make a decision to leave it paid by the taxpayers so that a couple hundred businesses can get a very very nice service on there's nothing wrong with that that's your decision but i see this is an equity question which is i don't think that's fair frankly where those businesses require you to get so is that it was a mutual agreement to make the change yes but the businesses were required to do that i can't really answer that question it was before my time the businesses were quite right so it's not like it was a requirement that costs the businesses quietly by the town that costs additional money for the businesses and no it wasn't a requirement but this is what i'm told it was a mutual agreement between the businesses and the town to make the change because the quadrille cable you know modeled on the polls was very unreliable was microwave is very reliable so there was a mutually beneficial decision made to make the change and yes it cost a ton quite a bit of money to do that microwave panel and it cost the businesses something i don't know what to make the retrofit on there and that's now seven years old so the question well it's pretty close to that but again my one point with this whole thing was it's very difficult for everybody just to swallow it without really looking at it and i think it's very important that we analyze it that's why we are very one of the very few communities that don't have that as part of my fee structure but i think we have to do some research i think we have to get this is a community decision yes i am the fire chief and i set this discussion with you folks but i think it would be clearly non responsive by me and if i don't lease sit down with a very small committee with the town manager look at it all of the information i have to make a determination where we need to go as a community and then to you folks for the final vote but it i don't think sitting here right now and debating that there's a lot of data here right now is a healthy thing i think it would be best to that it's not right at the lay another year but sit down with a small group made up of you folks town manager myself and and make a determination and they come forward with a final recommendation to the annual training which cost a ton about fifteen dollars is a reported to at the time the expectation when we agreed to that was that we would find a revenue to offset that cost this is the revenue this is exactly what we had in mind so this is not exactly value neutral because if i do i'm in the middle i've got two weeks to present a balanced budget to the outcome in my goal is not to present a balanced budget it's already  goal is to create again the four hundred thousand dollars buffer roughly that we have last year now this is ten percent of that buffer if it's the will of the board not to do this that's fine but i just need to have some sort of timely indication because if not this then i've got to find out forty somewhere else in the budget because i've still got that cost in there that i've gone off set so i just i just want to differ with hodge i'm not saying you get to decide tonight but i don't think this is something we need to take a year because basically if the board takes more than a couple weeks you've made a decision and which is no for this fiscal year which means i have to find that money elsewhere in the budget so i want to board understand that implication so if i cut something you don't say to me hey why didn't you tell us that you were going to do that so i want to have that because i look at the kind of the big picture and i did go through these numbers but in general terms it looks like you saying look we haven't done a fee adjustment of five years this is average of all their fees and then you say where are we in front of where we with respect to the average and you've got some kind of anomalies you got like quincy in there which we don't compare to but right got other ones that were there's nothing that you've done that has brought it down to the average ok everything that is shown on here has increased sometimes two three even four times higher than the average right ok when i know exactly which areas are talking about in it's i mean it's almost the majority of them but when you set fee anytown set fees they cover the cost of what it cost you to do this it's not to make money  these it's what are we doing we just trying to why even bother looking at the average if you're just going to do that anyways because nothing went down right in there's no rhyme and reason to even trying to come close to the average right on the ones that we already had set i didn't feel it was important or that we should tell you to touch those the ones that you're talking about there like that are the the high number ones are usually dealing with inspections of multiple units and one of the things that i looked at when when and i'll give you i let me find one real work well let me give you an example here is the number of permits to ok small company inspections yeah six more units you went from fifty dollars right the average was one hundred seventy nine and you went to two hundred dollars so that's a factor of four and you only write two of them in the reason why i did that is if you looked at once they had actually some of them like ice hadn't updated their their fees in a while were all flat line just like we were  the one said have updated their had started looking at like for example we did fifty dollars for a single unit for an inspection and the ones that the community state started looking at multiple units instead of just keeping them all at fifty they actually started multiplying each unit by fifty and that's why some of them come up with these huge numbers when you looked at them because they are talking about multiple units five or six units gave lot larger number because it wasn't flat line like what we used to do for fifty dollars so i absolutely know what you're talking about in that was why when i sit down with the small committee i can justify all this and do that but i clearly respect what the town manager saying because he's got his budget here that's why i was trying to come up with some type of plan for a fast track to digest this information give you guys the ability to look at it and give me some feedback because i didn't i also didn't just look at quincy i looked at a lot of the other communities that have started to change the way that they were thinking and how they were  structures based of what the other communities were doing the only thing i wish i would have done and i do is some of these fees that you see haven't been changed like us for five or six years and of course the ones that you see that are much higher i want to just finalize theirs in the last probably year year and a half and so the other ones i see that that all step is really stem out there was all dealing with installation of underground or removal of underground tanks and anything that dealt with removing of tanks that had substances like oil that was it's considered a hazardous materials it's all of their fees were different than ours  and that's why you know we went through a lot of them you see a lot of them that we put that we are in a it's because we feel that the deputy chief does it as part of his normal duties and so we didn't just start going through this hastily i just looked at the ones that seemed to be kind of all of us to me that i felt that we would want to discuss because a lot of them i didn't even want to bring up because i just feel it's it's not where they for us to even stand and at it because i looked at how many that we do and in the year and it it just didn't make any sense so for instance in a yes that's fine brush and burning we've never had the fright on that in your twenty five hundred dollars so five dollars right  a costly agency of the fire department twenty five hundred dollars you'd be amazed how many calls that we go out on burning permits to break up or disappear or neutralize disputes between neighbors i mean a lot and so we don't charge anything so we're doing a lot of service there and i you know i think everybody loves to keep their yards clean and burn brush but it does add a lot of  s we thought we were being reasonable i just think that the one thing that kevin have brought up is that i am also in agreement with his thought process that the businesses have gotten  no charges no fees for seven years and i think that that time window whatever their investment was this is been done again that's my my thought i'd like to have more discussion on it  but i definitely feel that that that kind of money would cover the training aspect and the training that we're talking about is the training that's necessary to protect these properties you know one thing is that and we just talked about it a minute ago not too long ago public safety and training it's very critical for us to be able to train our first responders our firefighters and paramedics to be able to handle and manage every aspect of our community and that's businesses and residential and all of that and that's one area of our our operating budget that that needs some some assistance and so i think i get and i appreciat i'm looking at this and when i went through it the vast majority is well above the average right and we did and that's what scares me right and again i think i think if you look at the the number of permits that we're talking about they're not that large but making money deputy bagley and he's probably spending eighty percent of his job managing this this is a huge aspect of his position and you hear his voice on the radio sometimes point is there's a deputy fire chief in every one of these other towns doing the exact same thing yes and they're charging a lot less than what we were proprietors in there's these are huge increase and there's also a lot of communities that are charging for every aspect  the thirty communities we looked at only eleven of them even charged for it out of those eleven where higher than all but three the reason why we came up with that is that that again the communities i just started to look at  that mansfield being full wind they just went to two hundred north for just one two one eighty five if i'm not mistaken so a lot of the communities have broken it down in a different manner some of them are connecting to the max to master box there's like three different categories that they were using and i guess if you add them all up there above two hundred i just focused on one ok but  i would encourage if there's a member of the board that like to sit down with us again we i do believe and i agree with with the town manager we would have to fast track some some dialogue so that he can present that in their appropriate manner for his budget  but i definitely feel we need to at least address some of these to not addressed any of these i feel it's not right it's been well over five years and i feel we need to look at  it's making not just adding to the cost of wanting to do believe business invites brown and it just you know it screams and i just you know had i known you know whatever kevin we were talking about previously that we'll try to fight we will find that money someplace else maybe if i had known before that you know that i increase just increased fees on somebody on fun folks that i might not  i just you know i think it needs time to go through i mean i went through the numbers and that was my first reaction was just like you john is wow you know we're going up on this and some day i guess i would like to know where my tax dollars actually go down that's what i'd like to know where exactly i'm money is going towards you know i said yes we'll take a good bye and then we'll come back at the next five minute a dollar fee increase back in two thousand and ten we did that and then after that we do some sort of inflation offset every year we didn't do something anything last year this i don't have been exact percent but i'm looking at it and three six fifteen cent increase on a three fifty base and twenty five's increase on a seven dollar base looks like about two and a half percent sold well from tough that's really got that number in one year yes  the restaurant seventy dollars we went up five hundred dollars for the very simple reason we are having tremendous issues with our pouring establishments and they are quite frankly costing the taxpayers a fortune you've we've had seven compliance hearings in the last few months as just a small part of what those establishment surpassing us so frankly i and probably save us a fortune to give up i wouldn't say  on top of that everyone that has come in with a violation has paid all of our attorney fees right no they've only paid yet they paid the fee for the attorney to represent the town and they pay the overtime for the dozens and dozens of charges and thousands of hours of time and over time happening to the forest proby day because of liquor in bars and i'm not this isn't the stadium ok this is the bars we're trying to put some numbers together on it we've started this study i have something for you in february and in march and what we know is it's in the hundreds of thousands here what i said hundreds of thousands what it's costing us so i thought of five hundred tons of fee increase for the third e twenty something bars we have you know pouring established as i should say because  not all large service bars some of them are very small and if you were simply the law doesn't give you a way to say a small establishment will pay a smaller fee the largest dollars and if there was i do it trust me but you know you get toby keith paying the same as tastings in the jug and thickly different places but the law doesn't let me do anything else so so this if this is not patriots place issue this is everywhere else any idea what the other towns are charging for the hall you know when do any survey read this is done strictly on the basis of you know i mean i could have suggested to go to the max on all these fees i don't have been off the top of my head what it is but i do know that the tax payers of foxborough paying a lot of money to keep for liquor related problems and the thought just struck me that it's you know time to capture some money on the on behalf of the taxpayers five hundred dollars apiece is not going to bring in a lot of money for the town you know maybe i don't know ten fifteen thousand something like that yeah so we're not talking a gigantic sum of money here but it is certainly something to help offset was becoming a significant issue now as i say we're putting together some very specific numbers to put in front of you at some point i don't have them yet and it's a large project and it's going to take a month or more to finish but i just had a meeting on friday and we'll get in there but it's up to you folks i mean i i put the issue in front of you and you decide what you want to do so you know i think good night feel pretty strongly that what's going on right now is well everything that goes on the general fund gets used by all town boards committees commissions and departments ok so that's one of the proposals i have in the budget for you this year just out a new police officer now there isn't a direct correlation here because this money doesn't pay but a fraction of the offices cost and for any benefits so that's not the idea the idea is to try to recapture from the it a little more revenue to office and stead of you know that the average homeowner in foxborough doesn't get any benefit necessarily from the fact that restaurant a serves liquor and has forty five so yeah but that business gets enormous benefit from it i e tremendous income so the thought process is very simple it's an equity question the same as with the fire alarm why should the taxpayers build a bird now that no there isn't a law that lets us recoup one hundred percent of that cost is no so we're saying what is it thirty five hundred i mean frankly five hundred dollars in three thousand i'm sorry franklin three thousand dollars per drinking establishment times all of them is a sum vastly less than what it costs us to provide police protection to those same twenty plus  talking like ten or fifteen towns yeah it's a heck it's a simple question but i know it's just one thing that you've got to do it all it's time constraints it's a simple question but it's always a hard thing to get a simple answer from another town so  went when you when we get questioned by one of the establishment that you know why you're doing this we want to be able to say well this is the same mansfield's judging are you know i mean you have to give us some in and it sort of kind of sound like you're not going to prove it no no actually it's not very welcoming i mean i think a beer and wine establishment has a bigger different set up for all call ice and that would be one thing i would bring up he had the experience we've vaca keep going and going because i guess we can do the survey i just really would would respectfully ask the board it is a fair amount of work and i would sounds like it isn't put is probably going to be three to four hours of somebody stime i don't know  someone comes up to me i want to be able to say this is this is the honest celso you know for the last two years you know we've gone through all the salaries of town hall and in adjusted it compared to all the surrounding towns we went through all the building inspector fees adjusted up the surrounding towns but doing it with the fire we're doing it with this at some point is there any efficiency to all the training we're doing other putting together that something can stay the same and not go up and it's getting to the point where i'm very frustrated that the easy answer is because we've got to balance the budget we're going to go through this shopping list and do the math and come up with something that's that's what i'm feeling  having this is one way to address it if this is not the way the board wants to address it all you need is for you to tell me kev that's not the way and i look at the you know many many many other alternatives i'm looking at but and unlike the other ones i can execute or not those this one requires you to decide so i need the board to decide and you don't have to do it tonight but it's something that i need the board to give me an indication on in the next couple weeks because a part of that budget over there i think  and this particular one if your answer is that costs were increasing at five hundred dollars times x amount of stablish means we're doing that because it's cost us this months because of x y z over the last exactly i was doing it then we can say at least we're covering the costs well you know it's not covering a caution not even close to it but by and get five hundred dollars we're just covering that little bit more of the cost that's all we're doing we're not the cost for police service at the so there's no way this fee can amortize that full cost but what we're trying to do is get a little bit more of it paid for by the people that are benefiting profiting from the problem it seemed like a fair you know question to put before you and if the answer is no an answer is no i understand but it's a i think you know i thought it was a good question to put in front of you and see what the responses because it's one of those many ideas that we've got for ways to help balance his budget so and how much they're costing the taxpayers in the hallways is a gigantic effort because you have to go through thousands of data sets to get struck that because we don't keep the records the way we could you have a nice run helping him with that and then  i've got an intern and that's all he's doing and then i get a second one coming on board next week i hope who's going to jump in on that and help and we have a second effort which is to look at all the injury on duty that we have because remember a lot of our officers are getting into you know scuffles and we've had some very serious injuries with offices all for a long time and we feel sixty to seventy percent of their shift with overtime when you take all that and that's another in turn effort that's going on right now when you take all and you put it together is a very very big number but the interns are already working on that so yeah first place i want here is you know try to pull an intern off something for you know a few hours and put them on this and i would get to this information ok that's it for the about an hour and a half behind on the regular agenda thing else before we vote to go into executive session for labor negotiations so we did our act