morning ladies and gentlemen we have six cases before the court today only three of which are being argued the other three have been in the submitted for the court's consideration on the of the three that are being argued of those three we start with case number one five two zero seven six schlumberger tech chalmers a technology corp versus the united states  for your honor it's a particular proper form that's that's the definition that was cited by the court cited by both parties explanatory notes state that shaping is to form as nearly quick to point out that the court failed to recognize that the opposite shaped and in fact read into into the definition shaping the requirement for precision because again the statute does not have such a requirement the statute merely says fired after shaping go argue well and in fact though it's like what's significant here is that somebody actually has specifications they created these specifications so that's ok they dictated that it was all right you know to have a certain size and in fact the industry that they serve wants those size twenty forty forty seventy these are very small measurements it's like and so if you're looking at these very very small problems it's again they are shaped in terms of rounds mysteriously because they have the highest values on the sorting a quality control quality assurance process and in fact some birthdays all sort sorted for work for shape or for size or for size only for certain well it could be for shape as well because you know there are in manufacturing processes it is possible importation of pelletised iron ore across the great lakes is importation ceramics no it's not your honor and that that's a that's a very interesting point because because here we need to consider the entire process to the entire process of manufacture so or and the big get before the ship it but it that just be a preparatory step in order to extract the metal or for transportation purposes in this case we have a ceramic which is in or gannet nonmetallic shaped and fired and that's three of those things are undisputed it's inorganic it's not a matter of it has been fired so the only question is whether or not it's been shaped and when you have specifications like which slumbers day has they specif so on the shaping point in concluding that these particular products are not shaped isn't that a factual conclusion to which we are supposed to give deference there in this particular case the party stipulated to all  so your honor no we submit that that you have all the facts before you which are stipulated there are specifications they are they are brought is whether a product is shaped now there's two different issues one is how you define shaping under the merely just articles you know or commodities are going to manufacture articles and for technical use ceramic crafts sure amec where is your laboratory chemical or other technical uses  rts jars similar articles about find used for the convenience or packing of good suppose the record said grinding balls are as you know as close as humanly possible to spears that would roll smoothly then this wouldn't be so similar what does the record tell us about grand sometimes i don't know how often you know in the same kind of or that is used here but there is a i think stipulation fifty three says a small edition of these dope and to the  that the particular or used here doesn't have as much of that to dope and as is desirable for the increased hardness and whatever because they wouldn't be adding it otherwise i assume too from the  interested in i think part of the judge while it's question is the extent to which those of the addition of the dope and and in particular is their natural mineral or that contains the same level of these dope and either one as results in this material from adding the dope at in the grinding milling process could you find this composition elsewhere in the ground i don't know and that i don't know is it possible probably possible but what happens here is in order to achieve the correct chemistry it's because these are naturally occurring you will land forces from various parts of the mine or from other sources in order to achieve explanatory notes just for twenty secs say that it may remain normal to the metallurgical under street so long as it does not alter the chemical composition of the basic compound and if you're telling us you can mix orange from different things and you come up with that composition and then it doesn't alter it except for your honor that this provision chapter twenty six provides for aluminum naturally occurring as your honor twenty but if you could find exactly the same mixture as reis find in the ground maybe by mixing two different veins exactly what mixing it in grinding down into powder it's a can that's a manufacturing stuff that's not coming directly out of the ground there's an artificial manufacturing stuff there so you're not taking that as a limited or coming out of the ground which is what we're talking about in terms when so how i mean how do we explain in some sense ordinary english in some sense it's shaped maybe not a shaped as other things how do we get some questions or a couple of ways your honor i think and this was this was sort of the debate that we had in the proceeding below as well if i throw up a piece of pottery on the floor and it breaks into shards of each of those charts as a shape and my throwing it on the floor was the process by which we achieved that shape right so there's more so if there's more here you want something within a certain range of chips and you go through a process to get it into that range that's different from whatever the heck results when you throw the battery on the floor why is that not shaping just not as much within the range allows for one hundred percent of the government's response to that aspect and that's by design right i mean you you allow it to happen one hundred percent deviation you say as long as it's within this range it can be a really broad range but it's still got to be manufacturing process that that's used with respect to these programs makes it at least difficult if not impossible to to extract usable aluminum metals from the proxy i think it does but i want the of the way i understand the doping is that you're essentially sweetening the raw material and i thought the or the idea of mixing mixing or from different things was that it may be that in a particular batch when you do that has leaves idea originally argued that by type of stuff in the post dope and material it's no different from what you can find in the ground that i'm not remembering the point about the extent of the two docus which i guess we're not allowed to name which makes it a little bit hard to talk about it here but that the relative proportion of the it at the dock he found that you can't do it at the dock i don't i'm not aware of any way that you could do it ok his problem was that as you might expect customs of mr ability metals even if it's intended for non the logical purposes which we can see and then goes on to say that the headings don't cover minerals that have been submitted to process is not normal to the think the court may have i have to go back and look at the precise language of the court used but i think he said quote altered in a slight way the composition of the particular batch of the source or i'm not sure that that's accurate though it may be it may have altered the relative proportion of ingredients in the source material but i think to me that's different than altering the composition the composition remains the same i think as as a matter of pure chemistry if you're talking about the addition of of impurities or naturally occurring substances that are already there i don't and you haven't disputed here that the portion of the chapter sixty nine definition of it or description the talks about making something from a fine powder applies here i'm sorry ron i'm not sure i understand question so if you look a to understating the description the source i guess the version that we're given doesn't really say but i think it's in the general note the distance manufacturing process that we're talking about a paragraph a comprises the following sha even smaller in size if all the starting stuff was point three millimeters and by going through the granulation you get particles in smaller size that doesn't sound like powder to me but then there's another stipulation forty five or something that says it is powder it's just that the individual particles in the powder can have this apparently very great range so you haven't disputed that even though some of the particles in the range can be larger than the product that you're trying to get out of it that we're still within the powder restriction well i think here's what i'd say about that your honor i think to the extent of this a reference to power external constraint a mold or oppressor a dial or whatever however it is that you're going to use it to create the precise shape and the precise size that you want to make your lab where or you're your whatever ceramic article you're looking for made the difference here ok in order to try attempt to answer your question if there is a change in the chemistry of life they're fired because it's not simply tell us a nation process that occurs because in this in this manufacturing mineral phases contain it and i'm not going to say exactly what elements are it's like but that's so in the terms of transforming it there is a transformation of dr carty were there blending it now it's it's unlikely that you would find something exactly like that in nature and they just go ahead and take it if it's that things are manufactured they want certain properties somebody has is very specific you've perhaps so i think your time's up ok so thank you very much