before i look at one of these cases at the statistics about an immigration judge and this is interesting this is judge king yes right she has an answer on or her denial rate is about thirty percent the national rate against the previous council before the so well then when i hear you argue that the immigration judge turned a blind eye right and that might make more sense when you had a judge who smugglers good if we adopt your theory of this case could any person smuggled in from say mexico or guatemala states to to evade the law and to sell you know an illegal way and when he got caught yet all the sudden he says that he has a political opinion against the very activity that he participated in and we think that  that borders on frivolous actually it simply is not supported by the evidence of the record what rises to the standards for asylum withholding or even can't really why would the united states government want to spend their cooperating informant into a country where there's some probability he might be killed because he's here illegally you broke the law and he has no basis to be here we don't think that the evidence supports the conclusion that he'd be likely to be killed because we don't think that there is any evidence that  well he certainly doesn't have any valid claim for asylum the people that are interested in him i think they focus primarily on care ok let's look at cat so if you had a situation where there five the members of an al qaeda sleeper cell running into an attack inside the united states and he wants to stay here because if he returned to saudi arabia afghanistan pakistan wherever he would be killed because they would know that he testified against the people in the sleeper cell the country would send him back that's a different situation because that person i staying in the united states providing evidence about terrorism as fast as what this guy with that didn't he provide help yeah about one single smuggling operation he doesn't open hit the wind gusts as a consequence if it's just one smuggler of human beings versus a terrorist sleeper cell that's different i don't think that it's that simple but we would say that there's no provision in the law that would excuse that would excuse the deportation based on providing criminal criminal evidence i mean to find that reason for my hypothetical yes i mean and what is that reason the reason airport in new york and that but that's all he knows about and how we got into the country how they sneak him into the country that's always going to testify well i think it's only the you know i think that there are other statutes relating the terrorist that would make it very difficult for us to release him or is not required and awareness is required in other words she had knowledge that there is some lesser quantum of knowledge required to which the that you would ignore to show after yes but when she talks about the specificity i think what was talking about was the fact that there was nothing in the record to show that this particular individual the petitioner here in would have any probability of being it's the it's not correct to force the petitioner to prove that the in this case brazilian government would turn a blind eye to this particular possible or if returned no i misspoke your honor i think that he would have to show it's not the brazilian government looking at him it's whether he would be would be likely to be tortured and i think i misunderstood the point i think yes you know you can't show that the brazilian government he wouldn't need to show the brazilian government would specifically ignore him but to even get there you have to show that she specifically exhaust his remedies with respect to the police he didn't report these threats that he had even given that the government had granted a lot of this happened while he was in the united states but he really hasn't shown that the brazilian government would be an interested in protecting him it's all speculation we think and i think that the evidence compels the conclusion that he is more likely than not to be tortured for evidence of threats to his family after he says there's evidence of this i've now learned that my family's been threatened in brazil is there any contrary evidence yes it's evidence from a man named carlos who said if you rat us out i live in san francisco and i can find you and i'm going to hurt you and to my knowledge that hasn't happened so i don't think that i don't margaret i think that there's a splash linkage between the attacks on the family in brazil so this could have to do with what goes on in brazil because it shows the reach and effectiveness in the willingness of these people to hurt and not support the crime the fact that he wasn't hurt here you know that there is somebody that the criminal enterprise in brazil can reach out to to do harm what because that's resistant to a group that the government is not willing or able to control that's exactly what it is it's a political opinion she said i don't want to be part of your group i don't believe in your politics i'm not going to give you money well here's a guy saying that you know i took part in your in your criminal enterprise and you hurt me so all of a sudden now i'm i'm politically opposed to the crime that i participated in i think i don't think that i think it's very different your honor may be different in terms of the type of statement made but how's it differen theoretically because you have a group allegedly that the brazilian government is unable or unwilling to control and he said i i'm expressing this and maybe we testimony but if he says i'm expressing an anti mafia now i just think that's very self serving i don't know if you could make the same you can make the same argument i guess and other criminal enterprise was suppose he was caught participating in drug smuggling and he as a result of that conviction he's now deportable and he testifies against his his  native country threaten them you know that it's out and he says one i can't appoint me because i manifested a political opinion by part by testifying against my fellow dope dealers we think that it's it's it's a stretch is the concept of political probability of him being killed it wasn't really an issue with the court he was found to be credible by that and you know government's bringing up this argument now but also how he's different from other people who are smuggling and this is the smuggling