access parking area this is at two sixty seven route one seventeen that's in the agricultural district in the last years of request by robert in june but b and jennifer to state statute participation consists of offering through oral or written testimony evidence or a statement of concern related to the subject of the proceedings so i tell you all of this because if there were to be an appeal of anything we do tonight  what we would make a determination understood person status that's part of the appeal process but we do want to make sure that we'll participate and to that end there is a sign actually going around so if you're here to participate in any of the hearings please sign  know what you're here for just ok so that's one of the ways i think this is a quote is a judicial hearing which means that everyone who wants to participate must be sworn in so what i'll do is read the oath so we so we need to tell we did you know so it was worn for tonight and so i understand that you're requesting a continuance to a date certain ok so this is all new to everyone i just heard about it so so the applicant here has requested us to continue so they can get everything ready and but that's up to the board whether we just continue it with them at this moment or don't so and that we've they've proposed that we continue to that our next twenty fifth of so demurred and that it's still ok for the applicant all those in favor so what we've done is continue to so the hearing is officially remaining open as it was warned this evening but it is going to pick up where we're going at this point and now on the twenty fifth is there anyone here from the public who wishes to make a comment or concern on this application tonight ok they'll be another opportunity to do that on the on the trails parking area at two sixty seventy one seventy was here to represent that great you want to come up along the new ski river on their newly acquired fe farm property as the chairman of the trails committee we've been working with chuck to determine a parking area that would be reasonable to accommodate  folks who want to come and use the trail to walk come with dogs and otherwise enjoy the property there was an issue with the there's a pull off that was designated as being  the best for that type of use although it didn't meet agency transportation requirements nor did it meet the safety requirements and  carrying capacity requirements that we would've liked to have seen it's a really steep grade there was some concern about people having difficulty getting out into traffic coming around the corner and one seventeen  the point at which it became obvious that the current configuration was going to be problematic we were encouraged to work with mike to try to come up with a redesign  that would require an engineer to assess and come up with a alternate design for that parking lot so we are here tonight to seek approval for the design that mike has provided the i believe the approval of the site design is also contingent on having received the agency of transportation permit which we have which we have across those fields or what they need to agricultural fields down below along this route of gravel road that disappears off the sheet as john said this approach is really steep and there are a couple places where you are right as you look at the drawing where cars do pull off and park and maybe go down and fish or something in the river but it's very informal and very ill defined and extremely steep so the design that we've come up with for this is to start at the entrance connection to one seventeen hundred feet or so to the essex side to the west commune off the highway square make a turn and then come down again to the same area where cars presently come in this allows us some more length to work with and thereby we can get the grid coming down in here a lot more reasonable and then there would be six parking spaces in the area perpendicular spaces coming in off the access  driveway if you will and then in addition we're clearly a little connection at the bottom of the driveway to connect into sharks present every cultural road so that he can use this new entrance to come into this farm equipment and then make a right hand turn and proceed down to his fields then the green line that you see on my drawing here is a cross section through the and then the parking area taper to match up to the original grid on the right hand side a cross section of the dash line above is the grade of the existing ground now and that is about a sixteen percent slope the proposed grade across the parking lot is about ten percent grade so i mean it's steep places steep terrain so we can't make it really flat but w grade and then flattening out the bottom to nearly  them i can put it off i don't know if it is oh very good sure i had something to point with well  the six parking spaces which are perpendicular spaces like that as to the parking lot is the line this line look in here a little back up space and then access continuity for shut down into shields speaking about serves this area here which would be a little pond if we can provide some relief so we've got a small cove or running underneath the we're putting in a roll of while ox who has syria so that us cars come up out of here after dark which is conceivable their lights will shine in the faces of on so i just i have one question to start with i know you're doing some stronger management here at this with the size of this proposed building of our road and stuff x ok so that happens sometimes and there's a subdivision they'll do an a and b in the different lines and then once one gets developed they'll change it from a or b to an actual one with one address and then it'll ok so so it sounds to me like the answer to the question that is that it's not unusual for there to be two sections with the same number painted and that was every probably this is probably a good opportunity doing this doing getting the same plan approved town crew would take it on as a summer project nobody has made the decision so we don't really know what cost implication there would be at this point i think it's safe to say if the town crew build it would cost less than couldn't just reuse the existing parking area instead of making a new one as they didn't need six cars but at the beginning john had mentioned that the current parking area in addition to being a little small is also too steep he was too steep and it didn't really need  that was really the driver that i think are want for being able to continue to have that be the dozen new parking areas to to meet sharks desire to have that be the point at which people of the only appropriate option space maybe it would accommodate a school bus just  really trucks going to be ok with this farm equipment because he can come on down go down into the field do what he has to do and he's coming out forward instead of being put in there backwards so one of those short school buses th spouses and it's at sixty three brown strace road we had sketch plan back on may eighth its eight hundred sixty three acre parcel currently no structures on one hundred sixty three acres proposed private road directly directly from brown's trace lots lots six is a common lot lot seven and eight are large single family  twelve sheets of a twelve step plan with more details is that and we talked about these at sketch plan we reduce the lower section by one we previously had six plans cutting limits have been added to the plans the rural forest district forestry district zone line was corrected we had it we had it at the wrong location foot wide road for the large price shows pullouts three hundred foot intervals calls for to be fourteen foot wide minimum also calls for a maximum slope to meet your driveway standard the private road right away has is fifty feet wide which doesn't meet your requirements comes drops off of brown strace at two percent slow for about the first hundred feet transitions to a long percent positive slow and then the section between the lower meadow in the upper meadow there is a about one hundred fifty foot section of ninety percent and then it transitions back to a positive one percent slope all the section one percent is below your ten percent max the other discussion at sketch was the buffer from the south property line we are calling for a fifty five foot setback the lots of along the property line here so this line and lots themselves have a twenty  yard setback and we talked about that sketch but it's a no build zone so there is seventy five feet being proposed we're not requesting a waiver there there was discussion about design you know of the road way and stormwater that's the biggest component of these plans with the shared driveway the lower road in lots do not trigger the need for state stormwater permit but when combined with the upgrade of the driveway and lot seven and eight there is over an acre of impervious and the design has been designed per the state standards essentially on a private road you have shallow swills there's a couple stone check dams where the steeper section in it goes to a shallow infiltration swale just off the brown straits again the road drops from brown straight so it precludes any water going out onto the ground straight stretch of in addition to state requirements you have to accommodate for all of the impervious when you're over an acre so there's similar swales above both of whom are on lots seven but or so she added with a roadway to control runoff treatment control runoff and all that's been designed per the state standards we did submit calculations on that but and we have s the state for that permit as well as a construction general permit for erosion control to the state did you want me to go further get into the staff notes talks about the development and to standard building lots with open space a lot just want to make clear that lot nine is not part of the closed open space lot nine is a common wood l for the bees so it's not you know it's not proposed for development but it's not the same as a lot  seven on page two i just wanted to comment again as they did at sketch that yes this design was laid out to kind of fit into the existing open areas  the there's a nice change of elevation from the lower metal to the upper metal so it was a conscious decision not to propose anything in the lower meadow as far as housing save that wo tree line in between the lower middle and upper men meadow and basically tuck the houses in that upper meadow the only tree cutting to occur is going to be the m flow for propose a lot three and propose  does come is proposed to come off of that existing driveway to the south side of the parcel they have a perspective purchaser for a lot three already and that's what want we did discuss the potential for a lot three at sketch to have dual frontage but because they have a buyer in mind for a lot three they don't want any connection to the cul de sac so that's i didn't have any other things that i needed to go over on sheet two on chief three in the dimensional requirements talks about lots one two and three falling short of the seventy five foot five for again i think we did increase that setback of the lot lines by five feet but between the fifty five feet from the southerly property line to the back of lots one two and three plus the twenty five or the twenty foot rear yard setback you do have the seventy five foot buffer to any building which is the regulation requirement is no building on the lot layout i kind of already went over the changes there and then kind of summarizes it in the second half of the lot layout as far as we do feel that we've been sensitive t land forms and the open areas the other place they didn't mention so the other place that there's a tree cutting is the envelope again these are both fringe impacts down  lot three it's a fringe impact to where the would start all the white area and what i gave to you is open with the exception of portion you can see the tree line cutting through the low the tan house on so it's a fringe impact for that also were well below the density for the parcel the access meets the town requirements it's designed to the town public work standard however we understand that the select board is not taking over roadways it's still designed as a public roadway on page four we understand that there and assuming it be a condition we need to obtain a access permit from highway department that would follow approval from you folks on the last line of the second paragraph eight and nine should change to lot seven and eight and i also noticed on our sheet one that it has to change to seven so i said it again says the driveway proposes to lots seven eight verse as eight and nine that was the former layout when we had the additional lot down below so that should read seven and eight instead of eight nine at the bottom of that page it talks about three quire meant for three percent maximum it's a maximum three percent slope away from the main road and we propose a two percent slope away from the main road on on on page five the access to lot one through search meet requirements for a private route actually meets the requirements for a public  utilities the half way down on page five it talks about private roads can be either paved or unpaved and we have proposed that the first hundred feet of this rather than have it on paved in entirety that the first hundred feet be paved so that there is not tracking out on two grounds traceroute on the road design it is twenty two foot wide it does have the two foot shoulders so there is a total base of twenty six feet there on the bottom of page five one through lots one through six should be changed to one through five  six was is was eliminated since getcha plan on page six on the cul de sac we did discuss all of this and we did have a letter from the fire department at sketch  in which they said they were ok with the cul de sac radius so we have a fifty foot radius which is actually too big but it is less than the sixty foot that is mentioned in at least one part of new regulations standard is forty five but a school bus anything can go around this without doing any multiple maneuvers snowplow anything can make it around that  all of the i didn't really go over it but all of the septic designs in and drilled wells are on the plan all the drilled wells are on their individual lots and all of the septic with the exception of lot three are on their individual lots lot three with the tree line and such has an easement on lot to all those all the systems down below that one lots one through five i received a copy of an email today from harry shopman to john provided to me and basically saying that he's ok with the road but to clarify some of his comments that you starting with the road that it looks like it serves for that's correct because lot three does come off of the private drive so he's stating that he's good with that he states that the gravel base shall be a minimum of eighteen inches or twelve inches as i said we've designed as per the public works which is eighteen inches so exceeds that the slope appears to be nine percent there's only one hundred fifty feet of the road that's nine percent but yes the maximum slope is nine percent private road though th for a driveway story he says at the end the talk about the radius so that was talked about before it does it's the standard for almost every other town in chipping county is forty five foot but we still have fifty foot here so it's it's more than large enough for any emergency vehicle snowplow the last sentence of his comments were in regards to the drive he says road but it's a driveway leads up to the two houses that actually has the last section exceeds ten percent the standard for driveway is fifteen percent in jericho and the last section of this  basically the part that's on lot a lot is to be no more than fifteen percent of the native that's pretty much the native grade that's there and it's stated on sheet one minimum fourteen feet wide maximum fifteen percent slope so we do meters fourteen feet we do have pull outs which he doesn't mention here but they were mentioned at sketch but i did want to point out that there is that last section and that's all part of the storm there's check dams and there's still transfer during construction and that leads to that upper storm area that's on the westerly side of bloody i'm sorry lot that's all i have should be sixty is your reason that it's this or if the the fifty feet is allowed in your regulations so that's what we had gone with and that's the same as we had a sketch so i did not bring the regulations with me but i do know that it whether there's a discrepancy in your regs i don't know but i know that fifteen feet is  back and a good portion sixty percent of the road is up against open space anyway undeveloped so do i understand so i think i understand there is actually proposed in a final final way this is proposed to be three curb cuts feeding into this subdivided parcels right there is currently to curb cuts on the parcel body just a woods road that went up there so that that existed and the driveway on the south side exists it provides access to the blue a lot that has a nice men across this  parcel up in the woods that's a camp on that one so those two are existing i think that's the reason that the three year supported that have been supported to date at the staff level  her who's going to be responsible for th thoroughly and it seemed like a nice project so i'm in support of it just want to be on record more than necessarily  i wonder how many of the board members are familiar with that parcel and whether or not they would consider a site visit or already done so pardon me i don't know where projects more or less require that the whole project be built at once because of of economies transporting materials and so forth maybe just to give the  the wildlife time to adjust to having to move elsewhere in order to cross brown straits with a big consideration of freezing in the project rather than building it all in once and that's all i have for right now so just to reiterate get the board thinks it might be worth taking a steady visit to the parcel given that the scope of the parts of the project on the lane property you know animals i think will just very well find myself in a pain some of that property in the past i'm very familiar with it and i think it should go does that cover already engineered for the amount of water that the impervious new purse services generate all right so let's go back then and cover the questions that we have in here and see so i guess one of the questions he is though is sixty three acre parcel by the most conservative calculation twelve homes could go on the parcel by another calculation it's pushing twenty and we're proposing seven homes but the main reason that the buggies purchase this parcel is for themselves the house location for bob on lot seven is on a nice plateau and the house location for g d is tucked into the edge of the woods so it's by their choice and it meets all your regulations and you know we're at worst case we are just over fifty percent of the density allowed so the other way of looking at this is if twelve lots were proposed there would be seven lots and that back metal area and there'd be a couple more houses so there might be houses down where the gentleman mention but there would still be that house where g d wants it so i guess the short answer is it's where the buggies why they purchased the parcel and where they'd like to to have their homes districts is measured as a buffer from the streams depending on what order stream it is and quite honestly we don't have any resources in our office that definitively say what order stream these from an r that give you a sense of where on the property the most sensitive habitat is and maybe dave how you could see that that's not really where the houses very well the biggest thing is is that the houses are clustered at least the five houses are clustered in that front area and then yes you have two houses in on those large lots i can tell you as a lifelong deer hunter that those two lots are not going to bother the deer at all as far as construction dearlove construction they will be in there during the construction the phasing will occur the phasing one occur with construction but the phasing will occur because the houses are custom houses that are going to be sold as buyers come along so there will be phasing of the actual impact which is people  you know they have one house a list here and one can hear you know they're not even basically it's picking up the areas that are wooded and not wooded so there is the fringe impact on on live eight so it might get just into whole parcel and sold this to the buggies he was in about a year and a half year ago when off three acres from parcel of this water course here the last few times i've been out there you can walk across a tennis shoes i don't know if it's completely dry now because i haven't been out there a lot but during the spring during snow melt and heavy rains you do have a steep put wooded hill side that portion of it comes down through this water course so it's answer the gentleman's question we have calculated engineered colver that is going to seem like it's hugely oversize except for that few days of the year where it's necessary so we have we've proposed an article over so that there's better migration for small animals and we've called for it to be set below the base of the existing channel so that the bottom of the channel will be set and not culver but it's we are culver proposes less basically you get more capacity it's formed better to cheap three yes three it's fifty seven inch wide by thirty eight inch high corrugated metal pipe arch and that is going to replace the existing thirty six inch color that's there the other thing that the the arch coal will do is again it forms better to the channel that's there so when you have a circular colver in a gravelly environment you have you're susceptible to water wanting to go to either side of the circular colder so by going to the arch culver and dropping it down a little bit it will prevent issues that you are buyers and or owners on what's seven eight and three at present what's and so your interest you would have to say constructing the road access and doing arts three seven eight essentially immediately there are other reasons no no there's no plan to delay on those but but what about the rest of the market what's the what's your anticipation of the pace of it's it's really market driven at that point for what would be lots one two four and five lot seven is the biggest push junebug the want to get building i'm not sure j d can elaborate i don't know that you could lot one two four five would be done it once and it needs to be done it once and it needs to be stabilized as one project so but are there buyers for one to four or five in other words if you anticipate doing that to recap lot seven first the lot the road serving a lot one two four and five next spring and lot eight likely two years down the road ok thanks that's the answer to that was the question question is what's the and what's the impact on mr buddha's use of the existing right of way when we you know there's another some other house on that lower  across to the other question that he had was the commonly and so that is the back of lots one two and three and this continuous area around is part of plot seven which is common and we felt that that was better for a couple reasons one if you took these lot lines down now you have three owners of that land we just individual owners with a common land it legal documents yep and on page eight section five point seven law three has the benefit of an existing twenty five foot right away named police and lane as depicted on the plan law three shelby solely responsible for maintenance repair placement of police and lane including snow removal and shells received no contribution from other unit owners association off property users may be obligated to contribute state law not sure what that means sure it's an attorney's term but the intent there was a follow up to mr buddha's question at sketch plan is that the other question he asked is i believe as part of the highway access requirement which is in the staff notes that j t and bob may need to upgrade the width of that driveway to fourteen feet until the lot three access because all right we're still working through the questions that came up let's see here as we thing attorneys and the surveyor review show that they don't have so i think it's their opinion that they do so there's nothing found there were they have title  was a title search done and there is no right of way in the land records that corresponds to what the one described in this comment from casts applicants is the title search minus the surveyor also did search and did not did not find case so we have just to sort of set this aside we have this testimony a comment i guess i'll say they came in a public comment on this application and we have testimony as to what the present state of those rights away are so  so we fix what was a very loose document the document mr brunow had legal rights along here the actual route was located the actual road goes there so we are providing him with the program and this portion is getting extinguished given a ridge and now the proposed plan for reporting that shows the new right of way about the old one it shows both because the old one and the porch that last portion with me sane so right here since is referenced in this group the legal documents there's not the draft deeds have not been drafted but they are referenced throughout the  the legal document just as a hold out that section five point seven for because one of the questions is about lot nine i guess i'm curious about how you're going to you know how it's going to be you really nice if i mean if it's truly not supposed to be developed and it's truly like a lot for me syrup and in forestry and you guys are going to live there it makes sense that there would be restrictive covenants sums are put in that the actually so there isn't anything mission all that i mean it's not proposed as a building lot if it ever was they would have to be back before you but that's not the intent and they they are pursuing courage and so on that that lot to do you feel like you have the information you need about landscaping and lighting that's proposed from the plans or did you lie to us a just to summarize that quickly well i do notice that what's what's proposed blank yes so we have the proposed street trees at the regular intervals along the whole road but the bigger point is the design and that we are maintaining the tree line not proposing anything in the front maintaining the tree line between the lower meadow in the upper meadow and then just have the minimal tree cutting for lot three of the part of the envelope for lottie so we didn't feel which i'm not familiar with are you looking for something you can do that against your conditioning and that's probably carry over from a different town so it's a picture that we like but that no i don't believe that other things that could be potential until it so you know it's funny because there is a random section of the regulations that requires the select order to approve street details and then that approval is supposed to be  fifty and there is apparently a conflict in the regulations on that side if it's a public works that has sixty eight years owning reg subdivision rights that have fifty supports that because let me point one point one talks about design as joe said for the public works and but i don't have the entire regs with me  end up going to the site or discussion that way and then new school is the attorneys just have to write that language into the deeds it's it's by default but lot nine again that used to be part of the building law used to be part of g e s life so that was something we did on our own because their intent is to have the current use and to use it as such so it gives the two of them continued ownership it was never it was never part of common land just wanted you to just get that in the record while thinking was open ok i mean it's confusing this whole thing is supposed to be a beauty you know and whatever right to it so the point is that the status of the retail i've just looked this up because it affects something that i'm doing and i think the number is four or more locks on private road as to me the sixty foot right of way towns that i don't know exactly where to it says he said regarding the driveway since he was made aware of it tonight says he would propose things for say what he would propose would be to used east side says right now it says he would propose would be to use was too radical mistakes that's that's pretty good pretty record ok thank you anything else folks i just saw something that i don't know if it's something we corrected they were talking about this is on the  seventh second paragraph about a replacement area but they're not really specifying it whether it's like this to a replacement being permanent for their well and i don't know if that was just something that wasn't didn't the replacement areas are just a replacement need ok so all those in favor of accepting the minutes as amended for publication please say i will post minutes or approve th