morning your honour's good morning may it please the court my name is jacob brooks i represent a better way for b p a now as this case involves a fairly simple question namely who submitted a freedom of information act request to the bonneville power administration and the reason for that question is similarly sparely straightforward whoever submitted that request has standing to bring this lawsuit and upon review of this foyer request that was submitted it's clear that miss bramlett was acting on behalf of a better way and submitting this request to you i ask you this so the case at this point is just about attorneys fe to brief and the other question i have i don't know how it will come out but one thing i wonder is once the motion to dismiss was filed so either the complaint either that either she she has standing because she filed it or the b p a better way has standing because she filed it on there be correct yes so why didn't you then file a complaint in her name following the dismissal so one way or the other one of the others of these would be the appropriate point right and so the records were yes i assume that your client it was concerned in filling out the form that it not be considered seeking the records for commercial use because the the this is that b p s website like many other agencies makes it clear that commercial requesters are unlikely to be granted fee waiver whereas someone making this request for noncommercial purposes whether their member the media the public interest group or whatever or more likely to be granted these fee waivers and the at the action is filed and the response of the government is to move to dismiss point in relation to relating back to the original complaint that was filed that point going to court and say look at the this whole process was set in motion by m brantley she clearly identified who she was acting on behalf of all related to all of the communication between the agency and the person seeking the documents was addressed to her hat that her ways address correct yes yes it was sense of better ways p o box why not add or is a plaintiff i believe the indication from the agency was that they would oppose any her i believe that was along the lines of what the agency was arguing and at the time you know it it was clear to us that we wouldn't be able to in the complaints and  about somebody objecting to the introduction of evidence or that an objection to evidence or making a point would not be overcome we would not be in business too  long i certainly understand your honor and you know a larger point for better way also is the fact that they regularly submit these for every quest and regularly utilize this form in the exact same way than th and you know it's clearly a problem of the form is not without faults is your opponents going to find out who used to say they regularly do this but i guess it's not resulted in a lawsuit for request as we pointed out she entered her name into the name box and the organization into the organization box and you know that was a big ambitious to saying you know i don't know how else she would file or fill out this form and make it clear that it was being done on behalf of a better way from b p a and i would like to briefly address the fee waiver classification issue at the bottom as well your honor  i think two points here or point keep in mind you know one type of request or identified here is solely for the purpose of determining fees not the identity of the requestor it's forward to determining the type of earth the person  whether they are entitled to the waiver three of these four options are clear that they're not for commercial use you know they end with the phrase not for commuter commercial use the one that doesn't is the one that the b grantley should have filled out when she was if she's trying to indicate you doing this on behalf of a better way which is affiliated with a private corporation and seeking information for the use in the company's business clearly that's indicates a commercial use just by reason that process of elimination by itself and he does say here under the fee waiver yes i have technical advisers to help disseminate the information to our members so then you'd have to say well what memories are you talking about the only members that reasonably could be talked about would be a better way for b p a correct yes and you know i know that that's not the clearest expression of acting on behalf of corporation but still it does give the indication that she was doing this on behalf of the organization that she filled out she's no lawyers no no you are she is not lawyer i will reserve the rest of my time unless runners have any additional doesn't this is not in the in the record so i have to freelance a little bit here but the public corporation is a corporation which the shares are traded publicly they don't matter whether it will there's private corporations that are commercial for profit corporations you don't have to be like you don't have to be public now so but if you're doing business in the normal sense i don't think nonprofit organizations think they're doing  if you look at the page eighteen of our answer in brief your honor ok am i say to a number of cases these are not federal cases but they do indicate that business is not nestle conneaut only commercial or for profit activities but also mean any regular activity that occupies one's time and attention with or without direct profit motive i also cite the corpus jurist akun them and the washington revised code in which this was incorporated for the proposition that corporations may be organized under this chapter for any lawful purpose or purposes and that the defining characteristic of a washed a nonprofit corporation is that no part of the income is distributable to its members directors or officers another washington code provision you if if you check the business section does that change in terms of what you get for free no no your honor this is this is what i think is getting lost here there is  opportunity in this form to explain further the purpose for which you are seeking the records and there is indeed a specific field for describing elaborating on whether it is for a commercial or noncommercial purpose saying it's not for commercial purposes then she says it could either be private or it could be no profit right i mean the difficulty is your form doesn't really fit the normal lingo and so she says in here of technical advisors to disseminate the information to our members doesn't that mean that she's talking about the organization listed here a better way for b p a for her i mean perhaps you are but more directly she states very clearly that she is seeking the records as an individual seeking information for personal use and not for commercial use but that's true isn't it whether she's a representative of the better way or if she were even individually she neither one is seeking it for commercial use are they would you agree the way i read that your honor is if i say that i'm an individual seeking something for personal use i'm seeking it in my individual capacity for my use i'm not seeking on behalf of an entity a corporation a third party for their use i'm seeing it for my use and that's what she states very directly what's in it purpose you know right underneath on this form you put your name and i take it whoever you are and whoever you're representing you have to put a name in there correct i don't think you have to put a name there no your honor i think that that is a field that is that is optional but i think that if we had this if we could look at this form online we could know for sure because mandatory box boxes or asterisk that's not picked up on the copy that we have so i could not swear to that what's the purpose of the right after e mail organization what's the purpose of that line well you know it's sandwiched between an e mail address and it's not asking where it is i'm asking what the purpose of it is so i think i'm trying to describe that you're i think it's part of the mailing address in other words if she wants the mail that to a center a better way for b p a that's where they're going to be mailed if she wants to mail it home she can leave that blank and they'll be mailed to her home but if she's identifying where she is and where she wants them to go to that's why that's there and indeed all of the exchange between your client him is a brantly was at the address of better way correct i think that that's as i said the efficiency of this process is is that as she is listed here it's lifted off electronically and that's the way it's going to be addressed to them so long to produce the documents i don't have that information your honor i was not involved in this process but i think if i were reading the record i gleaned that there was a fair amount of material was being requested here and and at one point she was told that the information would be provided this was after a year or so again your honor i know i could only speculate i was then it was delayed you know why it was delayed again i do not know your honor and that prompted the lawsuit to produce the documents which were produced even only correct again that that may be your honor i don't know those facts is there any way to get have an foia request process other than using this form yes you can and it's the only requirement is the be in writing you could write a letter drive letter to send an e mail and if a letter came from cheryl brantley on the stationery of the people for a better way what would be the result well i think the other thing that's being missed here is that the form is not the end for you to say it would still be a problem or that would be different i would see if there's an ambiguity there would be a dialogue your honor ok i think the part what happened here is the fact that she identified herself as an individual for her own personal use did not state further discussion between b p and her as to who she was roofed question for why what was the purpose in order to determine what the fee structure would be but she tells you in the form why she's after this information let me suggest your form literally put her between a rock and a hard spot because either she fills out the chooses the blank she did as an individual and clearly she did not intend to be getting it for her individual capacity or she lesser of the evils because it wasn't her it wasn't the correct choice lesser of the evils because of the ambiguity of number three not knowing whether it would be treated as a commercial use or a noncommercial use and of course by negative  it is a commercial use because the other three are expressly stated as not for for noncommercial purposes but i think that supposed talk explanation your honor what would have happened is is that they would have looked at the specific box for fee in fee waivers where you specifically discuss what the reasons are that you are obtaining the records and whether specifically it is for commercial or noncommercial use she indicates here that it's not for commercial use then the fees structure she would not have to pay the fees that commercial use request would have to pay unless they determined somehow otherwise that that was a misrepresentation of facts so your argument as i understand it is that her explanation is pos that they were dealing with ms brantley as an individual requester and then her attorney got involved and they were dealing with with her attorney at that point but there's nothing that indicates that there was any misunderstanding and on their part about what the nature of the request was they considered to be they considered her from beginning to end to being an individual request  you i will be very brief your honour's the main issue i just want to dress is this name an organization box that's at the top of the form on record the excerpt record picked sixteen there's a blank form as as  of the name or organization on page seventeen of their brief they say that she should have either identified a better way for p p a or cheryl brantley on behalf of a better way for b p a within this name box which seems a bit nonsensical when you have the organization   that the he at all times considered her to be the requestor an individual requester so am i to assume then that the records were when they were produced they were produced directly to her and not to some other ent e i believe it was addressed the same way all other correspondence was address which was cheryl brantley a better way for b p a at their mailing address you know for the questions thank you all right thank you thank  the argument today a better way for b p a versus b p a is needed