this walgreens might be compatible one place is the kukui mall with the old movie theater there's lots of vacant space there that would be appropriate another place of the new cross t hey town center which is designed specifically with buildings the size in it when we talk to walgreen's about this they told us they weren't interested in other sites they want to be across the street from longs so they can take the business away from them this is what they've done on other places on the island and we've seen it on the mainland as the model is to move in next to existing drug stores and take their business let me leave leave you with just one question and that is do we want to let the marketing policy of a large mainland company determine what are the look and feel like or do we want to use direction of our community plan to determine the future of our town thank you the questions for place president of the my lai of unity associates going to highlight written testimony submitted this commission earlier as well as to the state department of health regarding the demolition structure landfill and i'll be talking about what we actually have a permit copy of the permit that we that we have our community has been urging the closure of this landfill for more than ten years now for a variety of the end of this year possibly as soon as may this morning however i'm not here to discuss what mr freeman is saying but what the legally binding words in the proposed permit extension or s the proposed renewal of the permit as written would allow the landfill to continue operating for up to another two years and it would even enable further surreptitious upward i did just its accordingly we are urging this commission we have already approached the department of health to oppose the following conditions on it regardless of whatever might have been discussed elsewhere may be discussed here this morning the final height of one hundred seventy six feet above new sea level should be clearly do fin as it refers to a single point a contour line but the uniform height of a flat table land we think it ought to be specified in the permit especially this in any form should not be accepted at the landfill appearance and must be screened in buffer to minimize its environmental impacts on neighboring properties including the proposed my lai a plantation affordable housing project directly across the highway from the facility currently  landfill is generally tidy in appearance only when the operators are requesting permit renewals or other concessions from county or state officials as they are now sure was beautiful this morning let's see what it looks like a week from now finally elevation control points have to be surveyed at least annually and not every two years it's currently proposed keep in mind that satellite imagery and other tech analogies now afford a means for the independent remote monitoring of the celebrations thank you i'll conclude groundwater monitoring results must also be furnished reports have been especially difficult to obtain so in conclusion landfill operators and county officials have now had more than ten years to locate and secure an alternative site that were incorrect enlighten us where will this waste be disposed of after the landfill closes surely it's not going to go into the central maui landfill so we shouldn't be penalized normile you large for the failure of these people to act in a responsible and timely manner therefore please consider these requested conditions they just mentioned and also in a written testimony that they get  good morning like grand ole commissioner's happy new year mahalo for your continued diligence service to the maori community at this vital commission i'm speaking for the key hay community association an item d one as we testified previously we find a proposed land use changes at this location for a walgreens retail establishment to be unacceptable this location is no where a kin to the new valley l are able to repeatedly testify we remind you that this body as well as the department said no to prior request for change from residential to commercial for watts immediately north of nice just on the other side of no who can i previously however if you want persuaded to accept it in spite of the k c egg and the immediate neighbors opposition we have prepared a list of thirteen required conditions which we ask you to consider to at least have a more reasonable and palatable business located here the same list was offered to walgreen's representatives in twenty fifth teen now we had submitted the list  a male and i realize now that everyone doesn't have a list so i think it would be appropriate for me to read a whole bunch of things that you don't have reference to however another testifier will be when when they testify at the time of the item will hand out that list and i think it would be more appropriate for to discuss them at that time for me to try and rip them through i don't think  is opposed to the proposed walgreen's as presented in november fifteenth required conditions for a key you need to support the war going so we're saying please don't allow this think the people here what if that's your decision please consider the proposed conditions and we have thirteen of them and again i misconstrued i thought you would have them in your hand when we submitted them last friday but on the off the future to bring copy and  forty one forty two and forty three we support europe we support the efforts for the zone changed but walgreen's there we support the project because it would be very useful for  president to have a access to a pharmacy and store on the makai side of sulky road pharmacy with a drive through also a nice feature we like the thought of a building at the location curtailed the amount of dust swirling in two of my property and surrounding area at night  back of the property is dark and sometimes for this spot for homeless people to set up camp we feel like building the area where security will curtail this presence and make the item for you today is a public hearing for a time extension now the first question would be well why is this a public hearing so that would beg the question to talk about a little bit about the history of this matter which is arises extension reason however that it's a public hearing today is that if we go back in history the original state land use commission special permit was approved by the commission in ninety five on march thirteenth of ninety eight a correction notice was served that there was a expiration of violation of expiration consequently the applicant had to file a new application and on april twenty seventh one thousand nine hundred community association on behalf of its members filed a petition to intervene to contest the granting of the special sir mitt and the planning commission granted intervention and there was a contested case hearing so the rules state that if there was a contest a case during the past then we have to have a public hearing on the time extension so that brings us up to today the proposal by the maori demolition and construction landfill is relatively straightforward that's to have a two year time extension for the landfill  that would be proposed condition number one would read the land use commission special use permit shall be valid until february first two thousand and eighteen that being a two year extension from the current expiration of two thousand and sixteen subject to further extension by the commission upon timely pressed for an extension filed as in ninety days prior to expiration just to give you a little bit more history mr dury frampton will be doing a powerpoint presentation bringing a members up to date  however the applicant did ask originally for a three year time extension and after speaking with the applicant and finding some of their possible expiration dates we felt that a two year would be more appropriate the reasoning behind that was that they've estimated the date the last day that the landfill gates would be open to the public and this is an estimation based on filling rates would be may eighteenth two thousand sixteen so indeed it's not long from now however then there are a lot of efforts that have to be put forth in order to close the landfill with regards to complying with the department of health permit that's another important thing t functioning here in tandem one of the department of health permits that said goes into grief in excruciating detail on operations of the landfill the other is the permit today which is the state land use commission  permit that allowing this operation to be an unusual but a reasonable operation in an agricultural zone some of the members may wonder why are we back again because didn't we see this relatively recently and in fact march ten final corrected landfill sites for this project declaratory ruling is a process by which the planning commission looked at the records and then they determine what the planning commission at the time of approval was indeed approving the final ruling for the declaratory ruling was that the the planning commission on march tenth two thousand and fifteen conducted a hearing and declared that final elevation heights but the landfill were set forth in the closure plan dated december two thousand and fourteen attached to the decision in order so there is indeed a very specific outline closure plan that is in exhibit eight of your exhibit eight that shows that the final closure high would have a finish closure height of one hundred seventy six feet above mean sea level which was the intention when the planning commission issued the s u p two ninety eight zero zero zero five so the issue of the final closure hides have been settled the landfill was reopened continued operations and so now we are dealing with the request for a time extension  that essentially brings us up to date the state department of health offered no comments other than the timeframes presented by the applicant you seem appropriate the maui county department of environmental management  comments are found in the staff report they are aware that this is probably going to close sometime in the purse half of two thousand and sixteen and indeed that offers a big challenge to the county but of course that's not what we're here today to look at that will be a issue for the future but they are aware that it will be critical to coordinate where the see in the landfill is going to go somewhere else on the island so that agency review is deemed appropriate as the other conditions of hoover were not deemed to be changing it's just time extension this is not a request for a high increase this is not a request for an increase in the size of the landfill this is the request for a two year extension to finish it up close it according to the requirements of the department of health and then to leave that matter behind  lot they are consulting thank you kurt for a very concise summary of this project that has a very long history of facilities been in operation since one thousand nine hundred six and it's nearing completion the last time extension was in two thousand and six to give it to the spot he gave a ten year time period for the landfill and it was pretty darn close to estimating when the facility would be filled we're estimating the facility will be filled to capacity sometime in the middle of this year the planning department has informed us that not only does the accepting a voice need to be under the sessions permit but the actual closure when you come in and you hear the final closure plan establish a final drainage which will take could take anywhere from six to eight months that closure activities they need to be covered under the special permit as well and so we asked for two years to allow for a little cushion not knowing the variations of the construction industry which are sickle and and that's the main reason actually so this is this is a summary again we're requesting a two year time extension for two fil this gives a background of the actual permit requests that were we submitted we originally asked for three years but based on the latest estimate we shorten that up to two years we are comfortable requesting just two years and then for the commissioners that weren't here saw that there was a need for handling construction of demolition waste and you know at the time the e p a was promulgating rules for landfills a lot of the landfills up to that point time didn't have liners in  them they weren't really regulated as much but there was became a big push federally to control landfills and and just the whole waste stream in hawaii the adopted procedures for struction demolition landfill permit about four or five months before mr pickwick came up with this idea both independently by the way anyway so that stated why adopted these rules for seanie landfills mr decoy went through the process and establish this through the department of health as well as coming to this body that the the planning waste material oh and i know i want to just mention construction and demolition landfill as a name implies takes just a segment of the waste stream it doesn't take all of the minutes a police it takes mostly inert materials the drywall lumber  concrete sperm construction site so it's a segment of the waste stream that the landfill guys dn they don't like taking it in their plant still it's it's a different complexion it's different stuff they just much prefer the construction of the malaysian we should go somewhere else so here was a opportunity that a private company chick decoyed as he's known as he owned to quit trucking so he started this with his wife and not a dime of county money was spent in terms of starting this up and handling this but it serves a very important function for the community terms of handling waste so again it was the first landfill on maui that had a had a liner it was all designed by engineers this shows looking back up outta the machine down there at the bottom you know rolling out the material that was a cushion over the plastic liner that's showing more early shots of the construction phase installing a line or so and then this fast forward to last year in march this was the revised plan the updated closure plan that was approved mr ray bling from model i mention that he'd like to see a very defined plan very defined limits in terms of what the final shape of the thing's going to be this is it these lines are ten foot contours that shows the perimeter of the landfill as well as the fill and that top line is one hundred seventy six feet so you are going to have slopes up to a very  and terms of a profile this is what if you took a cross section through the pit and just look at the elevation this is just one portion of it when they're going to basically does fill the pit have slopes on the side and slopes on the bottom and  they'll be closed up there they think they'll reach that final closure plan to reach the capacitor that final closure plan by the middle of the year as we mentioned these are just some photos this was taken last year in march  looking over the facility towards kide that's the facility right there most of the facility is buffered by vegetation so you can't see it so i took this photo where you have like a windows to see over the facility that was in march last  they're going to have some additional closure material on it this is just looking down the highway here's a facility that you can kind of portly live here but once you are adjacent to the facility you have wonderful views of the pacific ocean in the key a shoreline for another mile all the way to land this is taken yesterday looking towards way luke right before you would take the turn off the key acres that parking lot the commuter parking lot so you can just see the top of the landfill there that's at its highest point minus a couple feet of film that will come in in a in when they're when they're all done with everything  gentlemen from all i mentioned the neat and orderly appearance it's really because they've finished active fill in this area and they have to have an intermediate layer cover to keep things down and they will be completely filling this it'll be grassed over  and it will look like a mound on the side of the road basically i know it was a mention about having accurate elevation control point points this is a two thousand and thirteen aerial survey they recently taken one in two thousand and fifteen i think they might have taken wanted they did take one in two thousand and fourteen so they are taking fly over surveys to get accurate data of the facility so that they can comply with this closure plan and  they also use handheld g p s devices to get the accurate measurements of where the are right now so we're fairly confident that they can construct this as if they will construct it as shown in this plan these are just shots of other landfills showing this is essential mowing lines although it's forty acres and it's about eighty feet i just showing the shape of the slopes with the flat copse that's that's a lot like what we're doing there's over while the landfill and here's the like the landfill all these much bigger than at this time we'll open it up for public testimony on the denied him and he would like to practice time please come forth equate on behalf of alexander involving a little bit of history behind why i run a quarry over a hundred lulu for about ten years mining about a million and a half tons of rock uli for the construction industry and we were governed by the bureau of mines now the bureau of mines came out took a look at this facility that was left unmanned and the sides were kept caving in because it is the center is proper and we were notified over it alexander involved in that we had to do something to fill this otherwise they'd be substantial planked because people were getting in doing target practice and it was collapsing behind him and at one point i understand a guy did get very down under it but he had friends share the mouth and then along went back so we were faced with a dilemma i reached out to good fellow brothers and good fellow brothers estimated it would cost alexander involving at that time in one thousand nine hundred four dollars eight hundred and fifty thousand dollars to fill so we look for alternative and it is quite was the alternative it did do things it took over the last twenty years it's taken over a million million and a half tons that would have gone to the landfill and the landfill would ha d to sort it out all of the materials that were extraneous to what they could use and create a create a real problem for them the second they were of note is that there was a about a thirty or forty dollar differential between the the courts charge and the charge at the city and county therefore the contracting association where the beneficiaries of tremendous savings in the billions over the last twenty years i think the the the courts have been very very responsible in doing their doing their job the real challenge today is what do you put another sea in the landfill there are no properties over the last seven or eight months as an independent consultant i have been trying to find land working with the county working with alexander  we want to continue serving the public which is what they've been doing for twenty years so with that in mind i'll leave by my comments if you have any questions i have i've received reports over the last twenty the county have now a plan and mission is acting as the authority for this state special use permit and may indeed prove imposed protective comments and conditions as necessary and the green papers of the staff report  you find the twenty three conditions they continue from the last time extension the change to the conditions would be condition number one and the date of the video for this permit with the intel feb first two thousand and thirteen that being the case the mag county planning department does recommend approval of this state land use commission special permit subject to the twenty three conditions in consideration of the foregoing the recommendation is that the commission adopt the probably will be able to explain and i'm not sure whether we had anyone here in the process of getting their extension from the state department of health this is the  permit so i didn't make copies very one but i can certainly give this to you if you'd like to look at it now can you point to one that you think would be interested in as far as i know this just goes into permits may receive segregate store clean concrete and contaminated paris and non ferrous metals so it goes into the well just from the paragraph highlighting construction of maintenance of the facility how it's how the leach out is to be collected what the something base measurements are and then goes into acceptance criteria what can be accepted there the operation of the landfill odor control that are controlled that to control waste disposal concrete metal recycling surface water management leitch eight management ground water monitoring the closure and coast closure requirements which of course would be a football to this about when the applicant has to have their intent to close what they have to do with different types of soil closer construction engineering document record grass as one of the items occurred mention was the requirement for the immediate cover you know the six inches of daily fill once it's closed they'll go through the steps well they'll go follow the steps that department help outlines but they'll start fairly soon after they've taken the last load they'll start coming and they have a lot of stock material that's there on site right now and they'll start coming in and implementing the closure so they'll cap and then they'll cap it and it will be some limbo correct ok all right thank you for the question there yeah although these were forty acre footprints and thirty five acre foot footprints and seventy or eighty feet well you know where we got you know on most the majority of the northern perimeter fifteen feet of golf and it's only actual  apologize but can you please clarify where are we today with the height as an estimate six inches away from snow we're about three feet away i believe that what they've been taking the trash up to about one hundred seventy three feet above sea level and height is one hundred seventy six so they've allowed themselves about three feet of of closure material along this portion of the facility and that portion of the facility where they are currently active right now shot was from by this parking lot here looking that way and most of that is all at one seventy three right now and where they're filling is back here there's some remaining space on the backside of the property so that's where the active fill is going to now in this general city and they'll  up to the one seventy three a level that it the rest of the facilities that now that it showed pictures of and then the bring in the cover material to finish it off at no higher than one seventy six from mom from from ground level what is the what is the height difference from the one seventy six i know somebody local so yes so it varies because the ground is sloping so at the top of appearance about the journey grade is about a hundred sixty feet so it's about a sixteen foot height difference and down at the lower section there's a bank here that's around one fifty cent's but twenty five feet and then the the sides of the pit go actually pretty low so it is at the lowest point of the pit right down here it's about a forty foot height from here to here but the remainder of the twenty feet my question for you is if we don't have a another landfill what's what's stopping us for asking for a permit to fill it up to make a fool place instead of it being a  so the c it's a good question the sea follows the shape of the original pit and that but that's what the military created then he basically got the permit to feel that they were considering an expansion in this area the plan department has determined that one of the things you need to do is an environmental impact statement because the state law has changed since then and you landfills now require compliance with chapter three forty three apartments opinion was that would be a significant expansion and you would have to comply with the new rules that's one of the items and there's a number of other factors i think that has made it unrealistic for them to expand that  there in the material here it passes and they're going to close it off but they have to have the permit going in till they close it off right now they only have until the you coming before this committee again and asking for another extension is another time extension that we wouldn't finish filling and completing and be very low then have to be some swing in the construction industry where waste would stop coming in at the rates that have been they've been coming  so that's the only thing that i could see realistically if for some reason everything came to a halt and there were no more construction and demolition waste and it is cyclical but i can't imagine that the estimated six months would end up a whole nother years at at the rate that we're going to now but it isn't so i'd like to say one hundred percent no but i can't because i can't promise you that the construction industry won't stop in the next six months what are the odds of that very very low i'm sorry for not giving you a play catcher in the community i think you've been patient everybody's been patient and they understand the need for this and then just in the future need for another please like this but i want to be at least somewhat assured that this particular item will come back up again but you're seeing that that's you can't do that i can give you ninety nine point eight percent sure thank you typical uses of are you asking for what are you asking what the typical uses of landfill sites are just you know would they generally stay open space you can't put buildings on it right you know there might be some settling that the owner has to or the operator has to monitor the facility to make sure that there's no like erosion if there if for some reason the drainage pattern search eating away at the facility they've got to come in and patch it up and fix to run off a cliff down the road so it's really low key passive open space i think some of them have been used for recreational passive recreational type things maybe golf courses and that type of stuff but small yeah so the plan for the future is just it leave it natural and i would defer to the land owner you know it's going to be it if you look at the master plan community that was a life plan for wildlife that was part of going to be part of the call of course we've taken that up with the women and working with the be covered we had a state the permit was only for that particular ports the three acres that you're speaking of is adjacent to it and actually my personal opinion is my personal opinion is that we should be allowed to continue to fill it up so you have you don't have this cavity but to point out why you can't speak about it is because the original site is only fourteen point i ne and the three acres is outside of the original water health permit and permits issue up to this point we would be glad to work with the county of poly if t if the process you could have a gap to finish and no place to go and that is what the i think the counties can say so that's the comments from the the future of this site and other sites with landfills are we looking for four landfills over where we're looking for another place to find this once this stops when they fill up on the one seventy six or but i know that they are always looking for you know to preserve the capacity for landfills simple maui landfill i'm not sure how much additional capacity they have em o understanding again i'm i'm not speaking and i understand that the carbon is kind of what happened here with but with the military is is in your estimation is that it easier than going through a straight flat land there's any landfill operator asked to observe those as well as requirements from the easiest it is a very it's not an easy kind of operation operating this facility over the last twenty years i think it's done a tremendous service to the community in terms of diverting material that would otherwise go to the landfill i think they were ahead of their time in terms of trying to address the environmental concerns for our land bill for the rules where he didn't and that's a credit to the way that they operate i know there's controversy over the high and i know that there's concerns about you but i think it's been done in a manner that's least back to the community and has provided a genuine service  in six months when it's full we essentially will be up the creek without a paddle and construction demolition material at that point is going to go ahead and part central soul someone needs to start thinking about alternate for the future and if that alternative site you know if additional sixty i don't know whether the landowner is willing to pursue that but i for one would be open something like that if it were but i just wanted to express appreciation for what they've done and taking the time to plan for the phil cover material so it would not exceed one hundred seventy six feet and for the timing that it takes in order to properly close it's it concerns me that we're going to run out of the landfill soon and two years i don't know why why we brought the three down to two i mean i could give them five years to close it doesn't matter once they fill up they have to follow the from the department but this is this one has an awful lot of conditions and i think these conditions are good and i think that if everybody were aware of all of the conditions that are that are placed upon this this perm this community above the ground or below the surface this is a if everybody had this type of information i think it would be easy to make application that came in for an expansion and if you look at the current planning law which is vastly different from the time of the original permit for this  it has become much more onerous in fact i believe it requires environmental impact statement you move right to the fall he i asked a process that can take a while for something like this to yours  there's also some cases are corporate counsel at that time was reviewing that when you go up in height on a landfill from that which was originally approved that trigger c a s process i believe in on a lulu and a couple of cases it would appear that that would be an issue that we would have to look into so the applicants and the planning department had a lot of discussions about in consideration that we're bucking against a fifteen acre maximum for this body to review if we expand it out now we go to the state land use commission move outside of this body you'll be reviewing it but then the state land use commission is they're going to be the final authority again a legal process that is much more complex there are the concerns that have been in the history with a contested case hearing that perhaps aren't as evident from just a brief discussion today so that's why the apartment with the review of the with the applicants felt that two years appropriate in getting this landfill this project concluded in a way that we management it is very concerned i've talked to them about what's going to happen it will be to fire into the central valley landfill that that's the only solution but that's where we are project and we need something to get it if the applicant was to reevaluate his options and say six months and he would want to apply and go through this arduous process would that be available to him currently if this motion passes just application  an application is always available to someone to come in we would then have to evaluate it on the merits of the case they could have they could apply for it and then the process would go out and on and on the on the etc i don't think is the way to address that if if this permit is due to extend technically in just over two weeks this permit expires that means technically years three years versus two years it could be a motion made for three year extension i don't think that provides any impetus any simulation for the applicant to go through the process of doing the environmental to make a motion to extend this permit for twenty five months the proposed a series is located in cooler at four for four colossal road the owners taught in deborah priests all have owned the point five acre portion of a lot for nine years the dwelling a kitchen a dining room that opens into the living room a study house bathroom master bedroom with bathroom laundry room and covered look nice there's a corridor that connects to the garage storage area that would not be forget for guests use guess would be able to park on the paved driveway leading up to the enclosed garage operation of a century will be compatible with the agricultural character of the area the dwelling is surrounded by the goats and pigs are raised and sold for me crops on say consist of of a condo and papaya in addition to their active there's active beekeeping on site and the african has been working with the company she eventually sell honey and other medicinal by products undeveloped pasture land makes it difficult to see and or hear anything from neighboring properties to the south east and west there's agricultural  thank you hold your heavenly the agriculture that we have on the property presently is best way to describe it diversified diversify because that's what we need to do in order to maintain any type of financial credibility to the agricultural for a sure it's a difficult game out there when we were first getting into it had  and do anything and everything you take and that's exactly what we've been doing the goats definitely is a good viable business and has been profitable easy to the financial commitment to putting up your fence is too great to really do that we've only been able to do a limited area which i keep close to my workshop so that we can kind of keep an eye on it have had good luck recently because it's been so wet the deer been away and over the last couple of years we've been growing more landscape products have been growing over here in cola trees we've been able to sell those t landscapers for insulation in the area like growing the native plants just seems like the right thing to do for that area and they do well there he is a little bit slow i'd love it if we could find some faster growing ones but it's getting there you start this high and two years later you hear it again yeah that's but but they're going so it's been working out really that's the gist of it never really handles all the  livestock operation of it i just kind of keep my eye on the ball as far as he plants going to keep things cooking on that side of it and because i'm a contractor as well i have connections within the windscreen community wormy will sell those access for when the nannies have their babies and their you know goat meat is very popular and i work with a couple other farmers that actually sell them the goat we usually can sell each baby go after  six months to a year from between one hundred eighty five dollars to two hundred twenty five dollars and sometimes if you have a really good believe that way more profitable we usually feed them and there's a lot even especially since there's been a lot of grass all of that that's the main thing we also have about six beehives we've had a lot of honey in the past and some of those have died but we're getting more we're we're learning how to do that better and they're really booming right now that kind of helps the other things and with just the other things that we want to farm the bees are always helpful whether we can sell the honey or we just help them with our with their other other trees and stuff and we've tried to fix we've had pigs and not as much luck with pigs but most people know and we have a couple horses so the horses are more you know they it's kind of intermingled the animals all like each other they can all hang out with each other so that's kind of mostly for the fight for financial results and most of t  since then my dad passed away all six years ago now so my mom only comes out here and she stays out here six months a year it makes it near impossible to do any type of long term runs off with the ohana unit so we just decided to use it as a short term rental because you can't get anyone to commit for six months and leave for six months and come back for six just doesn't work well so it seems like a natural use for it is using it is for short term thing if you thank you planning commission adopt the planning department's report and recommendation prepared for the january twelfth two thousand and sixteen meeting as its findings of fact conclusion of law and decision in order and to authorize the director of planning to transmit said condominium i start seventy acres broke got off and sold the ice to another individual it just made it possible for us to manage our mortgage for the rest of it much as they like to visit but haven't really set up a formal plan for a percentage but the visitors like horses and like baby goats actively become involved know going out and i mean deborah's really easy with the horses as far as if you want to take a little ride around or what have you the most the time they usually just go and play with the baby goats maybe not as recently as previously but i'm very familiar with and thank you for the opportunity to present the finally and we do have a powerpoint presentations all go through that and if is the district manager for the whole why we also have a store manager here from line a the architect is here to talk about some design changes that we've made as a result of comments from the urban design review board in the bill raul unfortunately is not able to attend due to illness his doctor did not allow him to fly from honolulu so we do have traffic related questions he is standing by i can call him or female with him and get back to your today with the questions and then also we have our cultural impact assessment consultant and that project and then i'll get into the final in the changes that have been made or is as a result of comments and then we'll conclude so walgreens on maui has three stores now they also operate t  over seven hundred employees and employed statewide walgreens does by many goods from local vendors and listed here are some more specific maui vendors that they buy goods and serv goods from and provide shelf space for what range is an active participant in the community sending volunteers to many maui events and also making many charitable charitable contributions to primarily health related type of charities and organizations this is the key center where the c v s long story is and there are five parcels that we're considering for the site x is currently on the site is a craft fair operated so mcdonald's has over here this is the craft fair that's on one of the parcels go to the next slide and this is the corner of south key hay road and no hole kind of street this way the craft fair back over here mcdonald says over here is a large gravel parking lot here and those are the residential zone parcels that are not being used for business uses just for parking this is another look at the gravel parking lot with  operation over here this is a view of our neighborhood if you look up here this is the residential property directly adjacent to the west and i took this picture just we've we've tried to contact him we've tried to e mail addresses and phone numbers and he has not responded back to us but we did want to talk to him specifically about walgreens next to his property we have also have talked to several of the other neighbors along no hook i street and community residents to where in the state land his district urban district the key here a community plan designates all of the five parcels as the commercial however as i mentioned before the zoning this one parcel is owned for be to commercial uses these other parcels  residential or in a special management area so we will be back in front of you if the goes forward to talk about a special management area use permit major approvals necessary for this project are the environmental assessment which we're here for today special management area use permit changing zoning for the residential parcels and us special flood hazard area development permit which derren could talk about a little bit warm when we talk about drainage so i just wanted to summarize some of the main points about the process and then talk about some of the main changes that have taken a place since the draft to the finally the public comment period on the draftee a was from may twenty third to june twenty second two thousand and fifteen during that review period we did go to the neighbor sorry the urban design review board received comments from them which you guys have also received we received or we were here on the  june ninth and we received many comments at that time that we've responded to the finally a dozen corporator response all the letters and all of our responses to the letter we've made some extensive changes to the as a result of the comments and also extends of changes to the design of the project the planning commission hearing were here today june twelfth and the planning department recommendation to you is to  archaeological assessment which has been reviewed and accepted by historic preservation division and historic preservation has determined last year even in our comments that there are no his start properties or no start properties will be affected by the project  an archeological monitoring plan has been prepared and will be implemented if construction goes forward cultural impact assessment has been prepared flora and fauna surveys been prepared there are no endangered are threatened species we've also received a determination from the core cocoa of engineers that there are no wetlands on the property traffic impact analysis the report shows that traffic impacts can be mitigated and we have some  so to summarize the changes there are three main topic areas we've had major comments on and these are not only from the urban design review board in the planning commission but also from the community as well these are the  comments we received from the planning commission if you recall from that last hearing we did have a lot of public testimony and i believe that the planning commission took a lot of public comments to heart and incorporated those comments in the planning commission letter so five summarizing the planning commission comments and changes they embody many of the community concerns so i kind of hitting on both topics at one time so  wall in landscaping on the sides on the residential sides of the property we can talk about that we did have a consideration of moving the loading dock closer to mcdonald's and consider moving t building location closer to south erode but i think it graphically it's easier to understand these you can move on to the next light so this is the previous plan and on this plan we proposed widen south here road we also proposed lightening no chi street to provide a left turn and a right turn lane out currently in the hawkeye streets two lanes only one one in each direction and we had a driveway entrance on this side it was or able to eliminate that access so the only access point would be from south to here road but in addition we have a true connection with mcdonald's on the side listing on this one for a minute  there were questions about perhaps moving the building closer to south here road and you know the prime consideration for walgreens here is a feeling of safety and security for their customers what i understand is that the average customer for a lot greens is a middle aged woman a somebody that wants to be able to park their car and know that there's parking available and know that there's ice on the street to see them as they enter and exit the building if we move the parking in the back we actually thought that number one it doesn't provide this secure environment that most customers are looking for number two there could actually be more disruption to this especially adjacent neighboring property with with more cars coming and going right now there's a drive through proposed rate here and  the activity of the drive through would be far less than you know customers coming and going all the time another another concern or another question that the planning commission had and also community was could we flip the building right now the entrances raid here on this corner there's a loading dock area proposed back here we did consider flipping the building so that the entrance would be here the loading dock would be closer to mcdonald's you could show that so this would be the plan with the entrance over here and so we've moved the building down a little bit farther and we would have parking in this area more parking in this area than we have now and the loading dock area would be here we actually did a lot of it did a lot of coordination with the current operations here on maui there's three stores on maui and what i learned was that on the loading dock there's one container truck delivery per week so the large container truck are very minimal they do not idle their cars when they when they unload the container they do not store the containers on the site and then also there's eighty five to six mauler deliveries per day and this would be a chip guy the beverage guy and these are smaller kind of probably gasoline powered vehicles that are not large container trucks i guess if you can go back to the other side jeff our good our architect well talk more about the design changes what i what i want to do point out on this site if you go back one more and on this site we were talking about more of a square boxy building you go to the next slide what we've done is we've put a dicky style roof around the entire perimeter of the building and what this does is it lowers the scale of the building it's more in tune with other buildings and commercial developments along south cyrano for example has had a has a similar type of roof but it has a shake shingle it's not a green  roof it's also we believe more in scale with the residential character of the neighborhood a total height now we're talking about is twenty five feet six inches before we had some design features that rough about thirty eight feet on the entry feature so we have lowered the scale of the building dramatically at twenty five six were less than what could be built in the residential district the residential district  and just for comparison purposes to our stores proposed to be fourteen thousand five hundred fifty square feet and that's the untaught total footprint of the building for comparison purposes long's is about twenty nine thousand square feet so long as it's about twice as big as what we're proposing long's does how about twenty four thousand square feet retail area on the ground floor and they have about five thousand square feet in a loft area for their offices on the second floor today and tom is already elaborated of some of the design changes but back in june we presented this particular option to you it was more of a vertical design concept is about thirty eight feet sibley thirty seven just depending on the variation in the psych grade in these particular elements here here here at center those are up at elevations twenty five feet twenty seven feet it had virtually no roof but we were incorporating awnings over the storefront areas and kind of a specific tower like elements which kind design feature or character along south a road to the next one now what you see today is a much lower profile store this particular height here is at about twenty five feet there again that's about a thirteen foot drop in the original proposed design the base building height is at twenty five six the fact is that double sloping of territorial dick it does create the illusion of a roof element that's much lower in the sky and certainly much more consistent with the adjoining neighborhood homes and residential designs a lot of the materials are the same ok so this was the previous design very kind of two dimensional very vertical the next one now as you see it today you'll see that it's significantly has a lot of kind of that architectural element very consistent again with neighborhood design standards we've actually added a little bit more store front right in here we've created a much more simplified and much lower the previous materials for split face e m e two we had last year we had been year basis we've actually now in this particular scheme incorporated some architectural siting there again bringing some that architectural the north facing side now you can see the scale is just simply much different today with those sloping roof elements here much more use tower type elements here this is the previous west elevation this is the side of the building that has the drive through pharmacy on it very vertical there was character in terms of  that being the entry right there to the store and once again we've incorporated even in this particular case we can't see it here but we have cited sighting elements up here and of course and sighting elements over here as well so when you look at this particular elevation here i think it becomes more evident that we listen to you we listen to the board members going to the community and you know there was that feeling that it simply just from a character standpoint didn't fit in with the neighborhood and we may some clearly dramatic changes trying to bring that residential kind of design into the building and something that really blending well with the adjacent properties having said that i think we'll move on to drainage public as well as of the the project people itself and one of the challenging problems of this particular site the walgreens has selected is the fact that there is a preexisting flooding condition and  of the questions or the principal focus of the questions that came from the planning commission were really about how can we deal with this specific problem and that in a way that's the possibly possibly comes on the hill it's that coastal plain much like if you were to take a bucket of water and dump it on your kitchen table it doesn't go shriek it spreads out and it basically floods the floods of the surrounding area where you dropped  is basically all the areas females identified as being subject to flooding because of the open runoff coming down the hill so what we've got is a site where the water that's flooding is really coming down the side of the mountain and creating  the street cuts bagnall the across the the walgreen site and out the other side on its way to the ocean so that's existing condition existing parking lot contributes a little bit to it but it's you know gravel parking lot of the great summer but not a lot into the water that is going to be generated by the development itself will be captured and held on site by a large retention basin that will be put on the floor in there  so great improvements that really held on site there's really no none of the water from the developed site really goes on to the neighbor's orginally the the magnitude of offsite runoff that's coming on the side of holocaust so great we can hold it on site we have no chance of holding it on site again it's hundreds of times what the rate of the so the best we can do in this particular case is continue to pass it through so it continues to come in in the runoff unfortunately all of these options either prove unworkable unaffordable when the case of something like the flood barriers created other other unacceptable drainage impacts and so could not be a ploy so effectively what that means is we've come full circle back to the original drainage concept which remains largely the the current the so we're talking about a storm water retention basin on site which is fairly large it actually handles three a public a process did allow for public comments and also agency comments by any commission comments or it is under review board comments the finally includes all comments received and all of our written responses more steps to go this final here not an approval of the process project actually i would say that despite only a probably represents let's say the worst case scenario and that if anything was changed or are made smaller not larger or or there would be less impacts and what's talked about in this final year  the planning department has recommended to find z obviously we agree with this recommendation  talk about various conditions that may be imposed on the project of the project also has to go to the county council for a zone change which would you would provide recommendations to the county coun which could include conditions also and then we're back at the planning commission for the final approval of the estimate use permit after zone change would be approved and if you could go to that just on the next flight ed you want to bring up something i didn't bring about about you know whole christ so this is the current site plan and no milk i street just proposed to be left as it is which is one lane and one lane have proposed eliminating the driveway here but we also did talk to public works and typically public works requires certain site improvements when you do such a project such as this which which could include widening the street dedicating areas and that's why we originally went with the wider street because we wanted to satisfy public works concerns also curbs gutters sidewalks what we heard was that the community like the rural character of no hawkeye street so currently on this site plan we do not propose widening the increasing pavement with we we could just grass an area we could set it aside for future dedication and if the county want to improve it later we could put a sidewalk we didn't we didn't include a sidewalk here but if that's the commission's desire we could do that  but we did not proposed the full range of improvements that public works would normally require and we're looking for a direction from this commission from the council on what what's would be appropriate in that area hello i'm randy wagner and i'm an architect and the resident who lives within five hundred feet of the proposed fault and i also am a board member of the key a community association and on their design review and many things so i passed out a document that i'd like you all the whole lot right now and basically  i've been involved in this project since the very first day when walgreen's came to see the design review committee at which time they said if you don't like us we'll go away and we were very naive at that time and we said we'll listen but now we wish they would go away personally because we are oppose for two reasons the first is that as a neighbor and just a resident i live with the flooding and if you turn to the second page you'll see the picture of the way the neighborhood has looked twice in the last five years and you'll see on the lower photograph the site after a little rain in august it clearly is has been a holding area it was previously a wetland that was illegally filled so the army corps found that it was not a wetland now but it was a wetland previously since i lived there it was built and i saw it fill and that land was mitigated by a lot of wetland somewhere else that's not in the region it's not adjacent so it doesn't wetland that they mitigated it with doesn't help our flooding anyway  so we oppose it for that reason but also the key a community plan and states which we've had since i've lived in that neighborhood for almost twenty years that limited commercial services to neighborhood business uses or other low key business activities with the residential scale on those properties which are but single family residences residential areas and that's on the second page that's an excerpt from the behave mckenna community plant walgreens has responded in many ways trying to do that however the size of the building is critical a fifteen or fourteen thousand or five hundred fifty or whatever fourteen thousand four hundred fifty square foot building is not residential scale and since hundred eight there have been no buildings built adjacent to residential areas in key hay that are of that scale we've had the vet clinic we've had a nursery we've had the the aloha marketplace shot there are a lot of examples of businesses that have been built adjacent to residential but they are not of this scale so what we propose we've written to walgreens and shown them a plan which is on the last page or not the last page because the last few pages are the petition of neighbors but oh shoot then when i want to ask many questions ok so we made a list of conditions and the primary one is that the store be smaller ten thousand eight hundred square foot which is a format that walgreen uses and we've also redrawn the site plan to show the building if you look at that page you'll see the building close to the street because we'd like to have a street neighborhood you know a street front kind of environment and with a much greater retention area shown so because they are in a position to contribute to greater attention even though it is above and beyond the requirements and we know it won't solve the problem if the presentation and i know this board considers many things the one thing i would like you to consider very carefully would be the traffic in that area obviously this a walgreens is a high volume store just as mcdonald's is next door and it's the left turns you know it's the left turn into mcdonald's this is a left turn out of mcdonald's i go there quite often it's a mass today ok i just hope that comprehensive lee when this project goes that not just the walgreens is considered but the mcdonald's is considered and the longs across the street is considered in all those different ways i just think that that this is an opportunity to improve the traffic there instead of just just office is located in honolulu and we currently have seven warehouses throughout the state island group employee over one hundred mill for residents walgreens is one of our larger customers they're go work with and export many of the product lines that we carry some which are made a noise i believe the opening of an additional location in here will be a positive for our company and the island of maui it will help ensure that our maui team continues the good paying jobs and possibly might be the catalyst for us to hire another four part person on behalf of the island group and myself we're in support of the new wall street st my name is mary jo and i'm an employee of walgreens line i support the key hay project because walgreens offers employee opportunities for advancement i started as a cashier but i had an interest in pharmacy tech although i did not have any pharmacy background walgreens was a willing to change me and even offered to send me to classes so that i could take the pharmacy technician board at that moment i knew that i was in the right company identify all of their opportunities this time to become one of the store  not only because it will add sustainable employment to this county but also because it provides excellent benefits personally for me one of the benefits was my ability to come home and work as you guys may know many local students go to the mainland to seek higher education and you know come back you know with hopes to return the favor to the community that other students who i graduated with in colorado i was the only one able to find a position here at home to work while going to kid will provide that opportunity for another another student another recent graduate to go into work at home with their families so i ask that you have these approved the thank you you christians for just fire association it is not that we are against business or trying to you know shut things down completely what what the concept here is i think is wrapped up into one word or can be wrapped up into one word and that is residential residential residential the size of this project is just not reasonable for our small key a community in that particular area you know they the zoning changes are are going to be huge it is going to impact the community so we did some research and we did find that walgreens is capable of doing smaller stores and were encouraged that we could meet with them and understand what they were trying to do but we wanted them to understand our concerns and needs as well so again we were encouraged and i think that they've addressed some of the aspects that we were concerned about and that the planning department was concerned about but size matters so i really think that we need to consider this on a smaller scale and provide conditions and i know that this is about the fun see but we don't get a lot of opportunities to express what we need to so we found we find it important to come today and give you guys the heads up size is the issue and that we are going to be requesting conditions we have submitted the conditions to you through mike moore and i believe you all receive them i don't need to go into them in great detail right now but these are the issues and again i just i would and with size matters and this needs to be a smaller project in order for us to support this and for the community to support it there is a lot of resistance to this and if the size you mention you do some research about the size of stores or any of those research in the state of hawaii or that you know the ones that came up there wasn't any that let me start over sorry about that there wasn't any information that i could find specifically about hawaii during the period of time that i was using to research this the information i found was for just in general smaller communities nationwide so and i'm happy to do more research on just the what you stores but i do know that they have been targeting the longs drugs and you know specifically looking to go directly in a in a location across from lungs drugs so that that's part of their their plan we understand it again we're not anti business it's just business we would just like it to be in scale with the with the residential community  hole in the ground run off to i went over there with a shovel on to the proposed area that they're going to do and they did bring in a lot of gravel there making it all the parking lot back there right now but even then a few holes and the shallowest one eleven inches for free standing water the deepest one with sixteen inches free standing water now you know that is because the color of the ground changes the smell from the stagnant water that is continuously there appears so it is standing solid so them digging of the there's nothing so that's all i was need to bring up i just could not understand where this is going with everybody when all you have to do is go out there and dig a hole that's what they did on my property in order to find out if i could build a home on it or not i and they did find a small portion at sixteen inches on the back corner of my property i can't build there these it's from eleven to sixteen inches is all water there so i don't understand that at all so it done yes we actually did notice that on the last meeting but the question i have for you is you know what it was i thought a little tight at the time there it doesn't matter how i say low tide it doesn't change and that's and you can tell that by the ground because it's fresh water setting on top of the seawater that's what we have there are not sea water we have fresh water we have it and some of the neighborhood takes advantage of that the state or the county has taken advantage of by having wild fall through there and feeding off of that fresh water and and watering everything around but it is continuous fresh water that's the their attention sorry that's the retention of the land it doesn't go up and down we we have provided a copy to each of the department of water supply also able to actually fill the site so that the entire site is an average is higher than can we reach the building specifically to meet what has requirements but the site has to be kept low enough that the water just like water that comes in from regulatory track the requirements for studying runoff impact from the site itself department of public works has a set of criteria that we normally use which is like a fifty year storm number in this particular case because of the size of the site that impact is is looked at as well so my concern is is that i know you're designing so little pass through right now from all the pictures this the site flow it looks like it actually kind of retains that water as it comes into the site yeah the chair and the detention basin that you have designed is it going to handle what is detained there currently or will that just in other little spot near the intersection of erode an all cash tree where the water typically ponds the retention basin that will be providing will be in a different location but also be able to retain water on site the net effect of  improvements in the been done for development will ensure that there's no the situation is made worse by development that's not to say we're curing the the flooding problem and are able to prevent large great job in all the project people addressing the design the aesthetics i would just encourage you that as you're going through actually designing the infrastructure is that you try to take some of the water coming into the property  drains what the street the street takes the drainage puts it into a drainage way and it ends up wherever it's supposed to and right in this particular case it sounds like the opposite the street where longs and mcdonald's are we aren't able to tie into that just them and elsewhere along the way there really isn't a conventional underground storm drain system that takes it to a larger base in the off site facility or to the ocean would see in most typical urban areas so what we're really left with is an area that has no inherent drainage infrastructure all that also has to go somewhere and although w what would happen to the water it go back out to the street well that that corner in this corner of the site is low enough that if we're actually able to build up with that kind of look at that's the situation actually in this idea of putting up a flood barrier builds up on the barrier builds up and that's what we do to the adjoining lands on the higher side of the barrier so that's that's one of the problems with adjusting elevations on the site it is difficult to do that without creating this it up natural water course it's not a natural water course in the sense that like a gully is there's a low spot in iraq where water comes across the street the subdivision the one side and the columns to the other side kind that is basically very broad and very shallow as a result of that so really it won't be holding more than about two feet of water at any time and really will pick it up to the maximum limit and down to the balance of the water table so we're not we're not counting four feet were roughly the top would be roughly about four on the water it will be roughly what to look at yet the irrigation studies show that we didn't have two feet to go below yeah actually to do any calculations for adjustment to where the retention basin would be sixteen inches or fourteen inches actually we took a closer look at that slot in the thing that was from his off the last time was there was up there was a  that's one of the big books  you know what figure it is on top of the the drawing your five in the top and the vertical scale running from zero  training now so so is if my understand his you have to accept you have to accept all the water of that square foot is that you're generating plus the and you have a difference of usage from from being horus and collect in say point seven to where you guys are like a higher level of water not because it's asphalt it doesn't and the water seeps through right just so i direct i think and understand what you're describing so the based on the type of method declaration method that you're describing a rational form of we are obligated to take at least what was i guess the the regulation for development requires that we take at least the water that we generate above and beyond what is already sent bunch but in this particular case because there is a we recognize there is a flood hazard we go beyond that we basically hold everything we generate on site so what gets sent down if if there were no  actually use the basin to hold everything we generate the problem but the problem with flooding in the area though isn't because that parking lot is generating water it's because we've got you know once more miles sending water into us offset each other because you come in at seven eight i think i follow what you're what your questions asking about so the female lead regulations require that we  develop the site in the way that creates the rise in the flood water surface mining departments method of doing that for that particular situation because there's a there's a lack of a certain designation life you know is to  one is south key here wrote fees for that is a project that had been i believe started when my director was director the first time but it never was never drainage improvements for the local area drainage improvements along south key road and then as i've mentioned before we had the south drainage master plan contracted out we did receive the draft copy of the plan so that's currently under review in our department right now and in it it does provide recommendations for offsite drainage whether it you know and we were looking at the tension beasts and upstream but i think and i did want to mention that there is a local area project that we're looking into that would help address some of those drainage concern walgreens is that with urban reviews recommendations you guys do that on your own we did not go back to her because i knew you board but we incorporated their comments in that design we could go back to them if you like but is i noticed you took some recommendations into hand what's holding us back from the recommendation besides perceive this even though showing that middle aged women want to have a parking lot in front of street instead of you mention safety for middle aged women they don't want is they don't want us on the street i never heard that before but i'm taking your word that you have some study somewhere walgreens can definitely support that right that's their customer base you know that people want to feel safe when they enter the store especially at night when it's dark they don't want to go to the back of the store where there's not a lot of surveillance or eyes on the street so that's that's one of the reasons for the store and parking lot in the front is if the community is asking for street that move up to the to the street because i just wanted women all the women and a lot of the men to are asking to do it to the street which is also i assume your customers is what's holding you back from thinking about that or are having that as an option  i don't want to foreclose any design review or design changes at this point i want to i want to think about the e is kind of let's say in the largest in a worst case let's say worst case scenario or the the most that we could talk  think if you move the store site around on the site the e a a is still valid because it still talks about the general impacts of the project larry i don't know if you can address the street issue a little bit better than i can larry adler from walgreens the issue of convenience and safety is one that was brought up already the other issue in this particular site is if you move that store to the front i think we'd have a real hard time putting a drive through and on the back side you end up having to kind of do a u turn and then where is the parking going to go i think we're we're pretty tight here for that kind of approach but there are the other basic business operations that it usually are a major concern is that we want people to feel like this is a convenient place to come in and park and see where they're going to be and go back to their cars and that's one thing the other thing here i think if you if you moved everything up i don't know where how we would get that drive through circulation with not just losing a whole bunch of we could lose some parking  we can't lose all  so the drive through the question was it wise to drive through or drive through the important for us to provide you know people picking up prescription to are either sick don't want to come in  store be coughing and be sick on everybody or whatever don't feel like walking into the store elderly people disabled people who can drive in easily get their prescriptions and also in mothers and families with children asking what what's the reason for the drive so i think it's the drive through and the convenient the safety factor the reasons why we would be opposed to pulling it off to the streets and i think that we've tried to do some landscaping elements with the meandering sidewalks and stuff to kind of create more of a feel of that being more than just the streets i walk and go and molly loni we worked a little bit  citizen things that you know we can also talk about further as we continue if we continue in the process that we can talk about those things building making it more residential in the height is actually lower than the height of my house so i can appreciate what you went through in order to achieve that from the original thirty residents and that's definitely something we've talked about you know we're trying to take the small steps together to kind of you know last time we came we were told we didn't really want to touch it so it's kind of what we show but you know we'll  developing it you know with all the comments as as we move forward and i appreciate your comment about the design obviously that was the design teams work but you know we're trying to be you know i know i know we're a mainland company but we're trying to be locally employments and a local store and a local pharmacy for the community so that's the intention not just from the architecture that you can see but i i know that there was  speaking towards the competition of your competitor across the street i have no problem with that in fact i think it's fantastic that people are going to have an option especially if if you're cheaper and you know and you are more efficient and all those things and you guys you guys thrive for you and good for the people because they chose you so to me that's enough competition is good but with with the community wanting to you know with you with them saying and then we got yesterday and my department also is with those if you could if you could one touch on the size of the of the building which was brought up today sure and then if you do have a chance maybe see if any of those recommendations on that list that they that they did that you guys go ahead and agree with or kind of see that it might be possible to just let me let you know on this one and then very can address store size because he's much more familiar with walgreens bottle and  what they need economically but when i look at the list and i did get to the questions are you stemberg and if i go through the list there's thirteen on the last i see a lot more yes is in check off the list that yes we can do this and these are these are far and i mean we're talking off the top of my head we're talking about more landscaping yes we can do without a sidewalk or no hook i st yes we can do out there is a concern about reducing parking over obviously were responsive i hope you can see that or you didn't find yourself oh i'm sorry larry and i hope you can see that we're trying to be responsive to the comments of not only the commission but the  community so yes i think it's a kind of a work in progress and we'll go through it as far as the store side goes there's a certain metric you know i'm not the analytics guy but there's a certain amount of lineal foot we have in the store certain retail space a certain number of department that makes the sales projections viable if you add on that the constraints of just being in maui  we need a certain size stockroom in order to store what we need because we do only get shipments every once a week and we don't have a distribution center not only in maui but we don't have a distribution center and why so the stores need to be a certain size on this is no bigger than our average stores in fact it's pretty much our standard model but the stores that were being referenced as smaller stores deplete those are urban stores very high fo traffic that can offset some of the restrictions that you are some of the restrictions that you would have on a smaller footprint also if you're in an urban environment where it's mostly foot traffic like in san francisco or something the products and the product sizes you know mostly people are buying rolls of paper towels or toilet paper they're buying a different subset of category a product so the size really it doesn't matter to us as well it's very important that we have that size retail space in order to make the lineal footage you know i think the retail actual area of the store that you would shop would be like ten thousand square feet and the rest of it is is the stock room and all the offices and stuff that go along with operating a store so in order to make it viable from a sales perspective that's what's driving that square footage of still that answer the question earlier question programs can you comment on that not sure how you want public works to comment on that i really don't know and i don't know what you will as far as improving that area from drainage master plan that we have currently in traffic we are embarking on a solid smally traffic plan that will assess all these different areas in addition to maka mcclary as well so you know it very well could be that there may be some suggested improvements as part of that study it's but in the meantime with what the applicant has been has proposed that that left turn lane you know for both sides that i think that will that will help because you  an opportunity to make a storage lane you know if someone's trying to make a left out of the property they you know they can use that as a refuge lane as they cross over onto the  mention about the the rapid flushing beacons and yes they have been very effective in a lot of high traffic traffic areas so we're looking at because they're so popular now everyone's asking for that instead of speed tables so we need to develop a policy and see where these areas where these flashing beacons are most effective because they are pretty costly but i think in time i mean if that's a suggestion that the community has putting in those rapid flashing beacons that's something that we should the department would need to assess and work with the developer and if you and if you did did you guys come to a conclusion together i have not spoken to him i'm not sure of their own good i know it depends on where you dig a hole on the property because the site appears flat but it does have variations surface i didn't quite understand his reference to the comparison of case that it kind of explained to me but the high water table is or is a concern and i think what by the time of construction we should probably should have more investigation done determine where exactly that water table is so we'll have more information on exactly where to say at this point i think we've got enough to learn or information to kind of frame the concept from a workable concept but certainly going forward i think it's probably sensible to investigate to make sure that our assumptions are all on track the other thing mr domingo mentioned was i guess because we're so close to the water table and we're going to be excavating pretty much down to the water table being a neighbor he didn't want that open i guess mushy ground left open so i my intent was to talk to tom and the if you are landscaping guys to see if there might be something we can propose that would make certain that that pond is not unpleasant to live with by the neighbors so that that discussion hasn't happened yet but that's accommodate the falling need to accommodate those who were building on today might change that i don't think it would make a significant difference because fundamentally the concept is still the same we just have to work through the details of how we finally i hudson that i did go back to our chief engineer and made mention of the kind of concerns that had been brought up before the commission broken for lunch  he is no we still we don't i think these are areas that are still in conceptual design and that will continue to need to be firmed up as you move towards construction or as you move towards a change in zoning and the estimate process at this point the the staff the silk comfortable in the issuance of the fonzie and feel that we can sorry we can work with the the project consultant and with the applicant in developing maybe specific best management practices or even conditions should the commission proceed to move forward with this project i mean we're looking at enhance the m p s new even new regulation we're looking at storm water quality in addition to drainage so those are things that do not just stop after the issuance of the final as the project develops we still do additional reviews on this this but at this point  the department of public works does support the issuance of the funds as recommended by the planning department to me i'm i'm satisfied that the potential impacts have been disclosed and all that with with additional permitting for the estimated zoning you know some of those things will be fine tune ultimately it comes down to the engineers and public works they're really kind of augured about this kind of thing they're not going to issue trading permit for other permit until they're completely don't i understand that there's a concern over drainage i also understand that the applicant has addressed the train age concern to the extent that they're legally circumstances i do appreciate the response that they've given to to the commission's concerns and the public's concerns about the appearance and the massiveness of the building and from my perspective that's been drastically reduced and it has an entirely different sense a plate when you look at the building and it's much more pleasant than what was there before it is very the resources of our county and that's that's where voters will be limited to appreciate the comments from public works made it very clear for me but there are some things that i'd like to address even before we get to the vote future that water is going to be down there and i cannot see using portable water food to landscape that doesn't make no sense alternate water sources shouldn't just be over there's enough water we're just going to take it water is a very very limited resource and everybody should be required to get both of those sources of water and be in a good neighbor somebody should contact water running through his property and that doesn't mean we contacted everybody in the neighborhood so we sort of contacted him this is not one of the hello i'm so and so we're going to be impacting your life because of public works  and i haven't seen anything expanded besides just this this lot of where this this model water's going to go regardless of it doesn't matter if they made the water or not but they're changing the floor the natural water is changing the flow from three lots i mean talk about a possible nightmare and i don't feel comfortable saying that there's no significant impact when we don't we know this and it's it would be great if the neighbor was talked to have great if we did a study if we could if we had alternatives that you know we could do this or that if it does impact it but i haven't seen the formation saying that this person is not going to be impacted negatively thank you but i would feel a lot more comfortable if i'm allowed to i'm a formula to we all got to go but i'd like to see that this for myself and see the hypes i have two different testimony seems the height of the waters the drainage and i never been on the street on the side i don't know how it affects that that they certainly commission are doing but are we asking the applicant if we just bring it are we ready are we at requesting the applicant to come back with more information on do we tell them that at this point i think they have items on there but i don't  e proposed project was unacceptable it's not for the key a community association to say whether a project is acceptable or not acceptable to discuss which this commission decides on its own what is acceptable and unacceptable from our perspective and to have a letter outlining requirements for the project i also thought was overstepping if anything it's a recommendation to the planning commission of suggestions that a field would be appropriate for the project and it shouldn't be dictating one way or another what private property rights exist for a specific piece of property you know it's urbanized it's community planned business it's not so owned yet because disowning hasn't followed the community but those are processes that respect the private property rights of the owner of the proper and i think we need to understand those rights and their ability  have a significant impact so in the right answer to your question showing that there will be no impact the only questions hanging make sure they take their bases contact the neighbors not on the doors do due diligence and then come back so it is not in my opinion and we're all entitle to our opinion in my opinion it's not a simple matter of numbers there's not enough commissioners here i want to clear my mind that there's not going to be an impact i think i would be comfortable if i did have more information with but the impact of that neighbor and the drainage my thought is even when we had the first time just came neighbor there's also where the community plan they wanted to help us move the store storefront to start a walking community we have other plans in that area that's going there and i hope that i love what they did  design because other design was it was not a static at all i think i commend them on that but i think moving it forward it could also be something that committee wants and i didn't take association is telling us what to do because i think sincere enough to know that you know that we listen to them because they're part of the community but they were autonomous in our decision making with that it's great that a group of community because it's a recommendation says that we don't want this project but if this project does go forward please look at these other things and they didn't just give one or two they give a bunch of and if a business is going to survive in a community based on these people protesting i would as a business you would want it to you know be one with the community it's not you know it's not a hospital it's not a police station it's you know it's a story that you know that that those want to cross the street and they can choose from i'm not a i'm not against this project i'm not for this project i just want to make sure like set of funds we have to make sure that it doesn't impact the neighbors the petition that we had over doesn't have people from the street right next to it so that's a significant not to sign a petition we had one person on the other side for it us a couple employees i think with maybe with the added time milk if a developer has a little more time to to handle this fonzie and we can move this forward and again they're asking us to take away three residential lots put in a commercial enterprise with housing is the way it is with meters public awareness sometimes you do your don't contact me ever and you can't get them to respond you can send them certified letters they can receive they don't write anything back they don't call you they don't nothing you can do is do your part and if this gentleman you know they've already tried to contact you if he doesn't good afternoon and happy new year sure of all members of the mind finding commission before you probably pretty familiar this is the fourth time that this item has come before this commission because of the i don't have a presentation i don't believe the opposite has one unless you really want one then i believe you have something prepared i don't want to get into the details of this project i'm sure you folks are all familiar like i said this is the fourth time it has come before you  this item was heard there were seven members present one member how to abstain from voting which left six voting members and the full was split forty two and based on that we are the commission deferred this to a later date with the hope that there curly there is one hundred twenty day deadline as you folks are aware and that would be feb twenty fourth so if no decision is made on for every twenty four then there's an automatic approval so at the point that out so with that let me hand it off to the town for some priest comment thank you for we move forward i want to get the commission on with danny said is there a body in agreement with that that we on their ongoing agricultural efforts at their farm as as danny said were were before the commission for the actually the fifth time when we consider the decision in order that went before this commission as well and i just want to point out that these folks made their application back in two thousand and twelve as soon as the ordinance became possible to make applications and they've never operated since that time unlike some of the applicants for have been for you as danny has stated in the past this application has met all the requirements for short term rental home permit and the applicants have responded to all objections that that have been raised and made changes to ensure that their use of the short term rental would never impact their neighbors in any way and the permit conditions that come along with this ensure that is well that that as long as they're complying with the permit conditions that that they're being held to their neighbors they're not going to see they're not going to hear they're not going to smell anything from from the use as a short term rental i'm hopeful that we could receive an approval from this commission today and even if some of the commissioners cannot support the application i asked that they might consider allowing this to permit to be granted even without their express focus i have my presentation that i gave before if anyone vacations who would be the manager of the property when it when it's used is the case rental again i do want to stress that this is the epstein's home it will continue to be the epstein's home even should this permit be granted and they have folks that would rent it it will still continue to be their full time residents and then they move out some rent and then they move back in that's the program that's that's in place right now thank you thank you rental home permit subject to twenty three conditions thank you thank you commissioners question can't get to it any other way except by helicopter sixty three recenter the impact for immediate residents that are next it is particular site are impacted permanent by the wall that it created between their homes which is thirteen feet high and is now completely sealed blocking off trade winds view of the four adjacent neighbors that originally  the commission can approve this particular short run it but it would do so without delay and on that basis i would suggest that you for this item until you get more members present if you meadows do we get for that act the council to make that decision director i'll have to double check the record but this is i believe this is not a part of now we've had those it's a subdivision most of the commissioners were present at second meeting there was a vote to deny that there was a new commissioner present that had not for had not reviewed the entire record so prior to coming back in february  and if you have questions regarding that or is gina slammers fair this is for you to acknowledge receipt you may decide whether to waive your review or just allow me t group they spent twenty fifteen updating the plans and they are ready to go as soon as they can get the approval they can lock in their financing and submit a no building plans for the building permit the question recommendation in this particular case how it works is that the department is intending to approve the two year but we bring it to you so you acknowledge receipt and then you have the choice to waive their purview and which we but then go ahead and grant the two years or if you want to review yes so in it are about sixty pages that describe the original permit what the plans were what the updated plans are and then any kind of milestones or actions along the way is included in here so so with these plans it doesn't trigger anything new it's just adjusting of the building itself just today today's action is just to allow them to more years to finish construction