united states has gone way overboard in making a big federal crime of an offense to the state that is not a federal matter at all it's not federal business and it would not qualify under mail fraud and so the united states got creative and as the jury found it were helping the truck school owner to pass someone qualified candidates who were applying for driver's licenses now the wrongful conduct of which mr turton was convicted has nothing to do with identity fraud it not involve any anyone per courting to be were to make somebody else somebody who they're not the identification function to a driver's license is the coors kid but in terms of mr turton participation in that process it's a peripheral it's circuit and way you are brought now a lot of other people were charged too but now it's isn't it an identification document produced without lawful authority that means it doesn't have to be classic identity e the meaning of the word produces  it may but to the extent that that word produces is unclear what it's referring to production of what well production of an identification so my question  identification function of that document he was complete he was fulfilling its purpose he was not turton point of view israel had nothing to do with identification especially in the sense well the wrongful cons up that he was convicted of had nothing to do with identification and there is nothing improper about the identification function in terms of this process of identifying the individuals who would prefer to identify well your honor and that is one potential way to read the statute but it is a broad reading of a broad construction of the statute which is not her miss himself am i in violation of this that she would it would not be clear because for one thing there's no profit in that makes that clear and this  is is not proper in statutory construction there is another issue well there are issues another issue was well is wrong or mention mr churchill was among the most vulnerable of our citizens and he got sent to an incredibly harsh environment to the government shows that that's about one hundred dollars per instance and if he was that all forty five instances are appropriate to penalize mr terje for which we do not agree with that either but if you are taking it in that light then forty five dollars times one hundred dollars is four thousand five hundred dollars another technician and the lesson was actually reported that she was actually paid by gill were her heart in his truck schools  but it is also worth pointing out your own or that again emphasizing that there is no evidence before the jury that mr church and accepted received a bribe of any  confidential operatives karr had to pay gail five thousand dollars an order to obtain her project and commercial license now that's not a clearly erroneous fact found by the sentencing corps when dealing with evaluations specific offense characteristic and based on other facts the licenses were worth at least five thousand dollars and as it does seem like the only mor detail what happened with a nother corrupt truck school that's also part of the indictment but separate and different charges and in those paragraphs a talks about f b i confidential informants having to pay the price requested there which was five thousand dollars for fraudulent leaper care and licenses this is not to dispute that there is a range but five thousand dollars is definitely supported by the facts in the record and unlike other cases it's unique tied to the expectation of what a fraudulent commercial license holder could expect in return gill charged five thousand dollars for suman she car's license and he had noted at the time that he was increasing his rate and that it was tied to the same dia that a license holder could expect to earn five thousand dollars for one month or so worth of work and surely individuals who are going on to all th trouble to get those licenses were expecting to use them for a longer than a month period so here the five thousand dollars valuation seems to fit well with then this type of case which is unique it is a multi year conspiracy with dozens of bribe payments being made to a leader who then in turn uses corrupt d m v employees like church and to pass his students on tests they didn't pass so that they can in fact get you're presenting any direct evidence of mr turgeon and so receive brian at trial your honor yes your honor on trial the evidence produced was circumstantial evidence which is sufficient there were four to five his fraudulent updates to necessary test or that his students needed in order to obtain their licenses and at the time the court was considering them as gil had already pleaded guilty it's accounts to which was in the p s are unknown to the judge at the time and all the p s r s in the eastern district were talking about conspiracies the status of other individuals is known to the judge as well now turning to miss fons argument with respect  n the substantive charges the indictment properly allege that church and had knowingly produced an identification document without lawful authority the statute defines both identification documents and false identification documents differently her argument turns exclusively on this idea about false identification documents but the government has never shied away from the fact that the individuals who are applying for these licenses were who they said they were in fact they were trying to get what would be perceived as real licenses out in the public to anyone else who was viewing and and unpublished decision and two thousand and seventeen another panel of this court did honor that as as antonius a love testified as did others from the d m v there are several requisite steps that needed to be taken to produce the document itself there were several qualifications that had to be satisfied and those were a series of tests and as soon as those tests were satisfied and a white i testified that the computers would talk to each other and so once the final test had been updated fraudulent only there would be a message that was sent from the computer at the terminal  in a stand up to the one year in sacramento now and it would say this person has satisfy their requirements their license is ready to produce produce then and send it out in the mail and so his steps were wired and order to cause the production of the licenses ross said early in early human this case is unique and that's the reason why statute to reconstruction needs to be applauded under the rule of len team at issue of which mr church's conduct was the tiniest part of yes it was material but it was the tiniest part of anybody involved did not go to the identification function at all also that he was convicted of did not and years beyond months that's another typical example of the government