one and that's the whole point of luzon is to give counsel an opportunity to respond and you can see here you didn't give him that because you filed the you sent the affidavit assuming that's what it contained on the spot on the same day too late one how do we know this was a tactical in other words we don't give them an opportunity to respond by filing on the last date i mean that sounds like i could be a sharp practice i'm not accusing anybody of anything but if we if we accept your answer here then invites other counsel to wait until the date of the hearing that acts the charges to the lawyer who finds out but probably by the time the lawyer reads of the hearing is gone and then you get counsel to come in and either in somehow and evidentiary information my wife my schedule another hearing how do you do that i'm the lawyer all of a sudden i get this affidavit accusing me of ineffective assistance of you turn the whole process into motion into a shambles if you run it this way that's why noticed is proper notice notice doesn't work unless there's a regular opportunity to respond that's the whole point of this notification is to give somebody a regular opportunity to respond and you also an opportunity to respond to the response and otherwise you're telling us well just throw it up in the air but you know  into a mishmash and that's a bad idea unless there's some on the list or some honest excuse for not being able to file that information to send that affidavit in time i think  but you also as soon as you have mentioned that there's been a fraud you also have to comply with matter of lozada that's a that's a that's a problem so give me the the exact dates i know the date on which the notice w immigration consultants and attorneys that spanned the representation from one thousand nine hundred seven all the way up to march two thousand and two when the motion is finally filed because their motion failed to satisfy any of the regulatory exceptions it requires the seriousness of the interpreter and before the immigration judge he made very clear on the record by asking each of them individually if they were in complete agreement with their attorneys the decision to withdraw that asylum application  circumstances the second exception is a motion to reapply for asylum based on a change country conditions and the country persecution that does not apply here because when they finally get to the board of the new they claim that approximately five months after the immigration judge entered the order in march of ninety seven they contacted a couple of russian speaking one as an attorney and two were consultants all three of them advised them that was a big extensions of that date grant you by the agency they were informed immigration court that they could have requested an extension of the voluntary departure period and you'd buy them if you don't leave by that date or the date that's extended you've got an eligible for certain forms of discretionary leave including adjustment of status should they try to receive when they filed a motion to reopen and become ineligible for those forms early for at that time it was five years from the day of the decision now it's ten years under under