this is the time the place for the meeting of the board of the fields for the city of holland we are here to consider applications for variances and or special exceptions this board must try to interpret each application as it relates to the ordinance this board is not empowered to resolve nor take any action that could be considered rezoning applications do need to meet a number of crucial tests in order to be granted you've answered a number of those questions in your applications and we'll go through them again tonight there is a procedure guide available we do ask that you come to the microphone to speak in that you state your name and address for the record we typically hear the etiquette first followed by those in support of the application we then hear from those opposed to the application after that we will close the public hearing in deliberate you're welcome to stay for those deliberations but there is no opportunity for further public comment if you don't elect to stay in find out what we do tonight you may call city hall after eight thirty tomorrow morning to find out what we did share and we have the first application please you back ramona drives sixteen point twenty seven z and shippers construction l l c is requesting a special exception to construction to construct a six foot addition to a home at fifty five he ramona drive that is closer than eight in the required twenty five foot rear yard setback but which is a long or and within the established that created by the existing house zoning board of appeals may approve this application if certain conditions construction around right yeah we're asking to build a six foot addition on the lake side of this house the reason one of the reasons that this is necessary this property used to be two different lots two fifty two foot lots bordering our base in the lake when they combined the two lots that change the front yard or the change the back yard if it was the existing or that original l shaped lot the lake would have been the backyard and what is now the back yard would have been a side yard so that's where the house was position on the property like it was so with that being the case that it changed the back yard change we're asking for this this variance so that we can construct that on the lake side if you did would ask that you would consider gran nobody else go ahead and close the public hearing with pleasure the board existing neighborhood and then i believe there is one in two stories a believe this is a one and a half story that meets a character and it will have a positive or no impact on the joint property sixteen point twenty eight see rick rad schieffer builder l l c is requesting a special exception to construct a second four addition to our home at thirteen forty five b if you drive it is closer than five point eight feet from the required seven foot side yard setback but which isn't long or in the established created by the existing house the zoning board of appeals me approve this application if certain conditions are met k anyone here to speak in support of the sceptic anyone here to speak for the sap location at all for or against that to her no all right we can do that the other thing is that and again this doesn't happen very often but sometimes people don't show up and they're mixed up on the time or or the place and in the past it's been sort of common practice to just table the table to the next meeting and that would be best to do that with the hearing open as well all right fair enough i never said my to my closing the but would here would that change if the board felt and looking at this regardless of question at can't that this could be approved if you have enough information to approve it you could do a motion to approve based on the application looks pretty straightforward to me looks pretty clean the may as well not pay to table something that i personally don't have any questions for an african i don't know either does anyone know is there a requirement that there be an applicant there really isn't a requirement is a lot of i actually don't have all the information you need or you have questions that need to be answered and then you so have someone here to answer those but if you've got everything you need in the application you can go ahead and vote on that based on the application my take is that they provide is very clean very thorough and what's being asked of us conforms to the strict rules that were guided by we're not making up a rezoning this fits within that conformity and in looking at the property the only approve support ok motion by the end we're in support by libby this time just to make the record i think we did cause the very real ok so let's close the public hearing it go thank you right it's a long and existing side setback the use of the building is conforming encroachment is in character with the existing neighborhood we're only talking about sixteen inches here to thirty west fifteenth street sixteen point twenty nine benito in him there are requesting a special exemption to install a four foot fence closer to the side yard property line along the side street then is permitted at two thirty west fifteenth street the zoning board of appeals me approve this application of certain conditions are met thirty nine dash eleven thirty nine dash one eighty five f thirty line so where you see the x's and i'm sorry for the professional drawing but this is the best we can do so so the crosshatch portion in the front yard is not what you're after you're only so why don't you tell us what you're trying to do here and then i got a couple questions for yes we moved in the neighborhood lived in this house since april and since living there we purchased a puppy and moved into this beautiful home in hopes to start a family as we've lived in the neighborhood and living on the corner lot we have noticed a few things first and foremost we notice that it's a busy busy corner it's a busy lot and so one of the reasons why we wan fence in the first place is just to create some privacy for not only our family and for our dog but also for the safety of our neighborhood and for us as well not only that  we also would like just to create more of a space for us it's a busy lot and the more it's a it's a small lot so the more space that we have to our own the better for us we recognize that we are asking for a twelve inch increase in the fence and that's just for a couple questions i might have that are you planning on putting the fence right along the sidewalk or back from the sidewalk in no way back from the sidewalk and i do know that there are requirements for from the city and i do not have those requirements but we plan to to meet the requirements from the city well it's you know it's our impression that if it's three foot there's zero setback that is correct so really the only requirement we're looking at a site line issue well you know how far would you need to go back to have four foot just to meet  currently i don't know if any of you have driven past the house but there are about eight foot kind of eight foot brush and in the spring and summer just so you know where we're coming from on a three foot fence versus a four foot fence when you're sitting in your average car and your eyes are about three and a half feet above the ground and so if you make the fence shorter than that you can see over the top of the fences taller than that you know you guys sell the house somebody else moves in has an economy car or something like that you know we've we've got a look yes it's nice for you what's it going to be long term as well and so all right so your want to move it back from the sidewalk some distance that that number would be helpful and we look at it we can either come up with that tonight or  interested in yeah well that's where we're day and put the squiggly line you would need to come here and so you know obviously you're here that's unacceptable ok fine you know understand all right you want  to bring the the fenceline off your driveway by a bit as well correct the most important thing for us is is the is the privacy and so we would be willing to work with the board to make sure that we can come up with a reasonable change all right so so the things that are going to be of concern for us is maintaining some sort of a sight line from your driveway down the sidewalk and so that that may end up be in you know chop the quarter off the fence there and put it at a forty five angle or something look at it to help with that ok yeah again we'd be willing to work with the board and i don't know we would probably need to discuss this my wife and i  if we said that we would want to push this push this off would we have to wait another month to get it approved by the board or could we yes you normally the fourth thursday of the month or so you know if you want to put this thing in between now and the end of the year yeah we've got a problem with need to figure it out tonight but it would be a problem right if you're not interested in getting this in before the ground freezes we've got plenty of time to work with yeah i think our goal was to get it done before the ground freezes you know what you're going to be doing the next week and so even if we work through this there's no obligation for you to go for obviously it's your property so maybe it makes sense to keep talking to give you a sense of what we're thinking because we dealt with this issue just last month ok and i forget what our sight line but that's not off the draw that's a diagonal line right so we don't really have the numbers but i think it was mentioned that that there are number of communities that have a distance requirement of  fifteen feet or twenty five feet not fifteen feet back from the sidewalk so that be a line up from the sidewalk up the edge of the driveway to point fifteen and then the other way along the sidewalk from the edge of the driveway i  be a picket fence and so you will be able to see through the fence and my wife just texted me and she said that there is a zero distance from the sidewalk that's what we have for ok so you're looking to put it whatever you know i before you actually enter it with your car i hear you on that end and that's the purpose of me stating that the fence will be see through it won't be completely a privacy fence  yes so my my take on that is that it's still not sufficient ok even though it's a picket fence and you can see there you're still blocking a proximately fifty percent of the sea and so i still i still think that it's important to distance and i'd personally i don't think that it would change the character of your fence so much i'm just curious as to how many feet are we are cutting off and if yes so that  from the from where it says six that kind of window you know the bay window there that you have the bay window to the sidewalk i would say it's even less than you and me  how many cars can you park nose to tail between your garage and your two sidewalk to two so you can get too deep in front of the garage yes that side by side no only side by side we can do side by side ok front to back one one that ok fine so that tells us it's about fifteen feet your garage off the sidewalk and you know maybe ten feet or so for the the house to the sidewalks so are you saying that if we are willing to budge on that angle for the fence then you would approve i for i think as we deduce this if we're going to go above the three feet if it's three feet you don't have to be here but if when you go above the feet the three feet we're trying to figure out what sight line keeps everyone safe on the sidewalk in those driving on washington avenue and i think the standard feeling is ok you  put a right angle fence in there to create that sightline i don't know that there's any other options that we've considered you mentioned the spacing on the picket fence but if it's squared off you're still looking through two fences so it's possible it's driveway is a one way road and has a yeah washington avenue there is actually less of a concern than the sidewalk ok so very good maintaining very pretty we've seen worse i guess just my concern with doing the angle of the artist so small and just choppy already i feel like so that kind of that i don't know how many of you saw the yard but it just is really really you know what about the sight line of forty two inches maybe that's not a compromise the fence forty two from for you just something to consider if you're working with the less distance for the coming out portions of this driveway if you allowed a fence that was forty two inches was but i think three nephew we consider to be the sight line for a car would give them a little more than three but not quite for some to consider he said we do consider the line for cars or is it a standard as as the actual sensei asked a standard now there you know there's just there's a secondary and there's another possible way of changing this and that is to make both sides of that triangle fifteen feet instead of which is the standard is fifteen and twenty five make that triangle smaller so it has less of an impact on you was fifteen up from the back of the sidewalk and fifteen down washington avenue from the driveway that still four foot fence if the boarders interested in that is it possible that seems like the two options are to guess at the thirty six inches that you suggested or we're going to according to the forty two inches you suggested or the angle is it possible we approve this and two conditions that either or and then and then a to choose but well as a as a separate an aside i don't think we debated whether or not forty two was be appreciated especially because we aren't sure where that would look like a steady well ok so let me let me if i can speak about that matter my feeling is that there is this a standard of a three foot fence which you're allowed to put anywhere you're asking for it to a higher fence which in a sense makes the situation more dangerous for people on the sidewalk because of that and so i think strongest thing of the board can do is to make that triangle put that triangle in because it would it would control those vehicles that are below forty two inches and above forty two inches and it would i think you still get quite a large yard with that fence at that point my own feeling i've been i've been to your property a couple of times looking at this so i think that it i think that it's a stronger position up for us to go with that site triangle solution because you're guaranteeing that the car will be able to look up the sidewalk before interest the pedestrian space on i mean you look up to look up the sidewalk before you actually cars entering into this space and i'm thinking in the early mornings people kid's going to school you know you're in a rush to get to work there's all kinds of things that happen at that moment and so i just think it's safety is a pretty important factor you're living right in the city there are schools around you and so that's what i think about that corner you know go straight line down to thirty six at the corner well but we're containing a dog right oh he'll be fine i think three feet would be fine for the dog thing or would be better yeah  but i had thought of that too to ask if you know along the side i mean we didn't want to push in and ask for a privacy fence but i didn't know if you did like a privacy fence along the side until you got to that point and then did a shorter angle down yet of the disorder fence from well i think it would be important to have it from there in that last fifteen feet it would be important that in a static decision up to the homeowner but from a sightline i'm satisfied with that because really we're just trying to get over that or under that three foot or under mark for that fifteen by fifteen corner well so what i'm sort of something in the board coming to alignment here on is we don't have any issues with a four foot fence except in the fifteen foot by fifteen foot triangle and the would that be the southwest corner of the backyard and we'd really like to keep that in three foot in so so long as they come in fifteen foot fifteen feet they can either do a four foot on the diagonal there or keep it square but keep it three foot  in just for clarity sake we can do a three foot fence around the whole thing if statically it's not yeah if we if we give you permission for four foot ok you can do anything less than that right no into it and now i just got confused they've got this this fence go on the sidewalk they're ok if we give them a variance that says that they can go and put a four foot fence there along the sidewalk then they could put a less than four foot fence if they so desire that's correct in the location that you approve correct but if they're looking for i thought i misunderstood then i thought they said that what if we just decide to put a three foot fence up anywhere we can that yeah not a lot and that is permi on the board with that all right very good thanks thank you anyone else to speak in favor of this i support all right so we got a motion by livy support by van we are findings of fact we have a certificate of appropriateness issued by the historic commission  sure four to washington avenue sixteen point thirty c chris r drink owner of the brew merchant is requesting a variance from the building code to allow the construction of a four foot opening in a party while exterior law or openings are not allowed to construction board of appeals me approve this application if certain conditions are met m b c two thousand and twelve sections seven zero six point one point in washington square in holland here and what i'm currently looking to do or wanting to do is expand our current footprint into the adjacent property we are currently in for four to washington and we have a lease agreement with four thirty eight washington of the freaky trust and i want to put an opening between the two units to be able to use those spaces ok so what's what's the peculiarities that prevents you from doing this right now i don't only their property ok right now i'm under lease ok both of them if i own the properties and it wouldn't be any issue with opening it up all rights to they are both leases i do  have approval from both current owners to do this all right both are very very supportive ok what type of opening are you wanting to put in there i know my plan i have a four foot opening that was one of the other things i want to discuss was  possibility of a six foot opening a six foot opening i realize that we have to have a two hour fire reading between the two but so there might be some options and trade offs there because we want to be able to close it off specifically for getting somewhere ceremonies private events corporate events that you know i saw how how are you how are these two spaces going to be used and then just keep using our current space as the brewpub and the other space our intent is to use it for the corporate events and by the receptions and that kind of thing birthday parties we get a lot of requests for birthday party as well so so the intent there then would be that this door could be open or will normally be closed when seen normally closed except for when we have  so we're going to have to put some sort of fire door in there yes to our rating right if you want it to be propped open or that we're going to need some sort of automatic closure on it or that yes if there's a if there's any kind of a of fire that it would have a handicap access and then we are going to add a front door there really is not a front door there so to be a matter of how the elevation plato so so your intent would be to have both front and rear access in the unlikely event that you at some point ceased to lease the properties and that there's no objection to returning it to a fire line no no objections whatsoever and if they did have to do that with the current  the other questions from the board know questions or comments from you nothing ok there you go thank you all right thanks all right i will ask the empty chair is there any chair here to speak in favor or oppose seeing none are closed the public hearing with pleasure the board i move we have proof ok what well and one quick second here the the applicant is asking for six feet though do we have any issues with notic  and that they acknowledge that they have to restore the opening it restored so i want to be remove the opening restore the wall of fire wall if the property ceases to be occupied by the same ten and you know  dock that happens the tenants gone and the owners are left with the property and i think to be fair that the owners knowledge they would have to do it then ok in writing all right go ahead mike someone and that would otherwise constrain the ability for the business to expand i believe there is an alternate requirement to the code that would fulfill the intent of the code in there would be implementing a fired or  of course in courts with all the set standards and there's nothing in this variance that is so general recurrent that it would make this amendment to we need to maintain two exits on each property in ingress egress i think one in the front one in the back of each on the requirement that in writing the owner's consent to a six foot opening and that the owner's also at least signature acknowledge there it must be restored if it's no longer occupied by the existing tenant and th also a separate condition in and of itself that it must be restored of it's no longer occupied by the applicant one question that you want to make that specific to this applicant or do i say if it ceases to be next i think we knocked out all the unfinished business last month we've got some minutes to approve anyone want to make a motion to approve them as amended or are there further amendments needed i like a motion to prove as amended ok any support any objections to that otherwise i'd be looking for a motion to