i think it is because it's a business to these people and they don't really give the medical attention to the dogs that they need but now pennsylvania has passed a law that these puppy mills have to have a vet check the dogs at least once a year and of course the female dog is the most abused because every time she comes in the season which is like every six months they breed her and she has puppies and as you know that's very hard on her system and  the calcium in the vitamins and everything like that so as a result she is in very poor health the female dog if the males aren't performing properly they just basically euthanize correct if they cannot sell them which a lot of them don't they just really just want to be rid of them because at that point they're not a profit to the kennel they have to pay to feed them and things like that and they won't they'll just get rid of however they get rid of them and some some of these probably bills are worse than others yes and it  seems that the the pennsylvania ohio kentucky or some of the biggest the west virginia some of the biggest offenders in the puppy mill business yet in our own state of pennsylvania the lancaster is the worst and what's the reason for the jets it's a business it's a very profitable business because everybody wants a puppy cute and fluffy and if the demand for the puppies was not there some of these mills would shut that because they couldn't afford to stay in business and i think we're finding a little bit more of that happening the other abuse is the dog stores where they sell the dogs and the puppies that has really backed off a lot because people are finding out what is going on there and they're making these people shut down by not supporting them well i think you're being delicate there i'm not going to be so delicate these states that i mentioned are known for have and poppin those run by the amish and you know they're they're basically just possessions livestock exactly and you know there's i take issue with a lot of that i've actually done sort of amount of research into that and the abuse is incredible and then the black that is even worse yes and we see the results of that you see it all the time and you know what do you do about it you know i know in my research that when these abuse places that are really been doing it for a lot of long time and brought to the forefront they close down and just relocate to another location and it's always in the hills somewhere where you're out of the beaten track and and away from everything that's true and it's really basically one person from each state goes around and checks on all these places that's another thing our state is fairly good about that we have the department of agriculture which is the agency that would go in and check on these situations but there aren't enough agents and there again it's a money issue because the state is not going to pay all these agents to do this because of course it has to be in the budget and things like that so as a result the animals do suffer because there's no one there to talk for them so we as consumers can basically refused to support not buying these dogs from the from the stores that sell them from puppy mills that's basically absolutely absolutely there are so many dogs and rescue so many of the past the people owners turning because now they can't afford to keep them times are hard and for whatever reason we just took in several with the same situation and we found them very very nice dogs but people can't keep them because of the economy whether it's the economy there sometimes you bring a dog home to dozens and we're going to talk about this in a little more depth doesn't fit the family right or your living situation or you have to leave your home and go to an apartment and a partner doesn't accept animals your becomes sick and you can't take care of the dogs and these are over the years that i've known you and work with you these are the stories we've heard repeatedly you know it's really nothing new it's the same same reasons over and over again  so let's talk about just what happens when you want to rescue a dog and bring it into your family and that's basically you rescue and then the new owners rescue and so how do you choose a dog ok we take our dogs in and they go into foster homes like if you were my foster home you take the dog and you would tell me where using the dog should go after a period of time you know his habits you know if he's partially potty trained if not if he's a maybe if he likes children if he likes other dogs if he likes cats or not if you have cat and you tell me what kind of family to look for people call me and say i want to dog immediately i take an application over the phone i find out everything about them that i can their lifestyle their work are it's their family their pets everything and then i'll say i think this dog would suit you better than and the dog you called on so so you base that on what whole large the family is how many kids some dogs on that along with kids correct i mean that's that's a fact some kids don't get along with the hogs right so you take that into consideration absolutely what about the size of a yard we the best thing is a fenced yard absolutely best but we do adopt the people that don't have fenced yard because what i do i do ask for references i call their vet their groom or a neighbor or whoever they give me as a reference and i do call these people we reserve the right to do a home check which we physically go to the home and see if everything they have told us is as they told us then we have the whole family come and if they have any pets they bring the pet to to the foster home we sit down we talk to them more in depth we see if the pets get along and then we make a decision after that whether or not that dog is going to work for them and certain breeds because you do with a lot of pure breeds bred dogs yes not just mutts and certain certain dogs have characteristics  that can be an issue sometimes you know my knowledge was about jack russells they're very hyper dogs i had a gentleman call me on a jack russell and he said i'd like to have a jack russell and i said do you know anything about the dog well no but the dog on frasier was very cute and i'd like to have one like him so i said let me tell you about the breed so i did i spent some time talking to him and when i was done he said you're right that is not the dog for me i mean they're very hyper they jump like crazy one eight hours a day you them and then you know german shepherds nice dog but and call these beautiful dogs but they require a lot of exercise and a lot of a lot of movement yes and if you can donate the time basically don't walk to murder you know you should have a dog like the other thing is there harry a lot of people can't get a shedding dog because no kids and family members have allergies so i get a lot of people that will call and say they want a low to no shed or a hyper elegy any dog now there is no thing as a hyper elgin the dog let's make that statement up front you have a dog that is less likely to cause a reaction but everyone will tell you no such dog exists like that poodles schnauzers should too sometimes cockers will be good because they are groomed and they don't shed a lot of hair and sometime you have fur and sometimes you have hair so we like to remain in the undercoat you're talking about us as of the what we see on the surface right now but we always give everybody at least a two week trial period so that they can work through any problems with the dog and see if it's going to fit into the family we keep in touch and if at any time they don't think it's going to work they bring the animal back to us well you know when when you gave me zac and so to look at you they were pretty sick and you said see what you could do with them and you know they still your heart and you know once you get them you get you really can't give them up and so i acquire tekken so but over many months period many times i could say hey jessica getting that back i remember you telling me he was a tough one but he was tough because he was so abused i mean literally he if you put your hand near him he coward and ran right and that was my first experience with a dog the did that and it took him ten months to wag his tail and it actually took him a couple years to feel comfortable around anybody you know that he was going to be beaten anymore or you know whatever you know so sometimes it does take some time to work through these things i mean even even his potty training was really difficult and then as you do it of course you can't yell at him you can't you know do all these things that they say you do because he was so tempted and it took a while but this dog became a super dog you know you can see how gentle he is and how you know loving he is right because now he has trust and and he knows he he belongs somewhere and i would imagine what some of the odds you get from some of these places that's a common it's very it's a very tough situation because we don't have a lot of things that we can work with as far as a foster home or a facility or people helping us with the training and stuff we simply have to go on our experience and as you know carol has kept several of the the hard to place dogs and they have really been a problem but what do you do with them you either have them euthanized or you work with them to the point of maybe turning them around and it does it does it take some time to the time most of the time there are always a few that are the exception to the rule and i have to really give her a star because she works with a dog she really really does care all that but most of the times the dogs do turn around they're wonderful dogs but it takes time patience and a lot of work on your part yeah you know so if i came to you and i said i wanted a german shepherd and you had one but it didn't for the family would you allow me to drop that you know and i'm very careful about that because i'm putting the dog into another situation that's not going to work for the dog so he has to readjust constantly so you're better off to take a little bit more time up front interview check up things go look and just see what you can do and then the dog has more of a chance of having a permanent home so where do you get most your dogs from i do take them out of different shelters especially high kill shelters owner tourney and like you mentioned people that have to go into nursing homes or no longer can take the dog to a retirement home with them or recently took in a diabetic food or she sang with me because people aren't going to work with a diabetic that no way that's a difficult it takes a certain person to be able to do that right there's no question about it right and she would have to be there to give her shots as you know you have to be there to give them medication now so we also do take dogs from i don't take so much from puppy mills anymore as several breeders and i'm now working with they do retire their dogs younger which we've actually worked with them and got them to see that is better for the dog of we retired the dog younger than i can place it in a wonderful home so i've got those contacts but actually over the years i used to take just about anything but it's come down to the smaller dogs well because they're easier for you to find a home for that plus people now are calling and saying well i had a bigger dog when i was younger but now that i'm a little bit older i want to smaller dog up to so many pounds or this kind of a criteria i need to have so we look at all that and they do it doesn't work you know well you know i was raised with toxins my whole family was there every every uncle had  l so if you can get one but bit of a advice on adopting a dog what would that be go to your computer go to breed rescue or breed you know the breed you can go under and you can find any kind of dog because there's rescue agencies for every breed yes but on the computer you could find you could go in on new york breed and you can find everything about the yorkie that you need to know and you could say well not that dog might work for me or not but a lot of people don't know their breeds they don't know the characteristics of the dog they don't know that some dogs are herding dogs they're not going to really work for you unless you give them a job to do my job the golden retriever same way they go to they have to be doing something constantly so some and even smaller dogs like the corgi the corgi is actually a herding dog and people don't really think of that little stubby like a dog as a hurting of what actually  actually when it started it was a bigger dog now we have that big thing with boxes demand people said i want a little dog that i can carry in my purse so they bred  being mostly white but that brings some difficulties most of them are born blind and deaf and usually use and eyes as a result of that you know zack is has a sight a little bit arty hearing though and  you know doctors are normally black and tan black red you know that was pretty much a standard color and i started doing all all the breeding to get different coats right and now they are the most varied coat but for the healthiest are not the healthiest dogs a result and that happens with every breed every breed because people demand something different they want a small dog a teeny teeny dog because they see it on t v yes now we're into the designer dogs which they are crossing a lot of breeds to get something else which i don't totally agree with because you're building good and bad into that dog and so you cross a lab and a standard poodle how do you know that gone from are going to shed the best you can hope for is fifty fifty that's it wow that they perfect example of that lot of those dogs are born deaf yeah but you can work with that a lot of people do and they have a wonderful dog but it's got to be a certain situation much it would be much better to have a fenced in yard if you had a adept dog or a blind dog i think you have to think about if you had a number of children let's say for a good idea to have a dog depends on the dog depends on the parents that's why i like everybody to come because i can see if the parents really discipline the kids if they take care or whether the kids are rowdy if it's a real bad situation i just tell the people i just don't think this dog's in the work for you because a dog would get aggressive after a while because the kids would pick on it and you know bull tail is yours jason whatever dog has to have down time to just like the able and you have to have one it's going to be high energy knowledge jack russell my fit in there but that might be too much they have it but you have to look at that same way with  older people they think they want to dog until you start to talk to them and you tell them what's involved oh well i don't want to have to take it out late at night or i don't have to get up early in the morning and feed it well then you don't want a dog i don't want to go out in right get your dog to go out in the right for the snow exactly when it's raining and open up the door to look at it like you want to go out there so you have to ask a lot of questions and you have to really let them tell you and you can hear a lot that's why i don't put an application on the internet i would rather talk to those people because i can hear a lot of things in their voice in what they tell me and talking to their vet and things like that you know they will say whether they take care of their animals or not so you get more of a feel and then when they come and you actually meet them that's the deciding factors right there besides your own home you have to foster homes yes you could always use more hostile which would explain exactly what happens in a foster home and lost your home as a family that has agreed to take in the animal and work with that i provide the food and the vet all the vet things i take care of but they mostly work with animals start to potty train them right away train them to walk on a leash make sure that they get along with the other dogs because most of my in the two homes i have they do have multiple pets so that's not a problem but then they tell me whether they think the dog would be good with children or an older person or just exactly what to look for but they do really what i call the grunt work they get in their and i do all that kind of thing and when they're sick they take care of them and i guess i talk to everybody i do the interviewing i do the checking and then i do the final so you can always use someone to help you have fathers or and it's a nice way of having a dog but not dog a forever home where he has a family where he can really blossom yeah and they do they just need love that's that's that's that's that's really the key of it all they want and they want they want to and you know it's amazing the change in their personalities when when that happens yes and i'll have people say well i adopted that dog but it just lays there i said please you have two weeks that dogs going to change you're not going to believe i had a lady called me today she said that they're going to leave the cable sometimes it takes a little longer and sometimes it's almost immediately it all depends on the dog but they know they know that they're in a home and they know that they're loved and fed well when i when i took tucker from you i only took him for to see what his personality was that i thought somebody i knew someone that wanted a little do i brought him he was afraid and i know he was an abused i don't think i was integrated very well with people and i brought him to my house and my niece was with me and she we were sitting out in the yard on the patio and he was in her lap but he was leery of me and i was standing there with the other dogs and this dog after years i think he was and cassius left for about twenty minutes and he jumped off her lap randomly asked me to pick him up and started smothering me with stopped this like it was you know legs arms face wherever you could find flesh he was kissing and i said finally said ok you're going to stay stop kissing me and he like immediately stopped it was like not this massive kissing thing you know he was telling me that he wanted to be a part of that family and super dog you know even after that paralyzed him he's still super dog does and doesn't let that get to him right but yeah it's amazing it's amazing what these dogs want so how can i become a foster not not me personally how can i make i already have a foster dog for just you thought i was a foster home how how how can somebody become a foster well they need to call me and then i interview them and i'll go check their home and just see if that it's a possibility because not everybody that wants to be can be either a lot of things involved in it yeah and one of the biggest things is having a fenced in yard for yes that always  and i see one of them is training an older dog can you teach an old dog new tricks yes yeah you actually can yes you can but there again you need patience you need time to do it and everything you do in life involves a little bit of work but yes you can train yeah yeah we're i haven't read this book and we're definitely i'm definitely not recommending it because i haven't read it and i don't know what it's what his technique is because a lot of training techniques that you have to question you know i  lot that's a big thing and everything calms right big back sometimes that's lacking right but besides angels for animals what the what and there are trainers out here we've had some on the show you know peter's township is has a wonderful program for the rex center  so when you can actually have help and in getting your dog to be more family friendly or community friendly i can't tell you how much time i spend on the phone working through other people's problems with their animals yeah ninety percent of the time it works if they do what i tell them to do and it isn't all that hard now but you know it's like anything else is like when you buy you train a kid you do it and you do it and you do it same thing with the law you have to be consistent take  out the same door taken to the same spot hours are important the same times during the day when you think about it we operate on routines correct and we win when we mess up our routine just travel sometimes your whole routine is messed up and everything is messed up with you you know your circadian rhythm everything is the same thing with a dog exactly you know don't feed them on time to see their reaction you know that they know when it's coming time the thing time and they're ready they're ready to eat right so when you when you get them on a schedule they function better oh yes you know and we do too oh yeah absolutely because angels for animals are there are other other groups of the that you work with or the that you are aware of that really have we have a lot of small  rescues in this area and out of the area in different states in one so we start to talk to each other then we all keep in touch if there is a gentleman and a high oh he works for the shelter over there and i've taken quite a few animals for me from him but they do use a nice so when he gets close to that he knows i take the smaller dogs in fact this summer we met him and we picked up several dogs and he brought one along with him that he hadn't told me about and carol was with me that day and he said they're going to euthanize is bob because he as i came and told me in the ear not all that is a thickening of the ear or maybe he's had a problem with the year before but it was the outer part of the year that was just a little bit thicker and i said they're going to use the nicest arm for that and i looked at carol she says no we're take it that dog and one of the other dogs that we got it was a big old mix got a home together and the lady said they are fantastic she wanted two dogs but we let her take one dog at a time and then we had let her take the two and it worked it worked they are they're doing great well you know exactly as ollie were were a pair there they were together and when you have a person like that you insisted that they go to the same hall yes we've had a number of dogs and you know the pair goes years ago when i rescued od'ing crinkles they were from the same letter and a pair and that rescuer was insistent to these dogs cannot be split up and it actually works to your favor because these these dogs are bonded right and they their security is being there together and it's amazing when i got zack as only he was having having surgery yes you know and they do better as when they have a companion because they're company for each other they don't get into as much mischief normally as they would if they were on their own because they're looking for something to do where they have another animal to play with at work and if you are you know wanting a certain breed there's a there's almost an underground railroad across this country for every particular breed and you can the internet you can get on and and search and they actually transport these animals from california from from everywhere  to get you your this dog thank so do some research and you know get on the internet and look talk to jesse jesse could you some help just you know we're coming to an end of the show right now so i would want to give you a plug for your harmony singers tell us very quickly what that is and what we're going to show group in the south wales area they do a big show at the end of april our ad about hope our community center and the charity this year is me awesome because you can use every penny you can help to do the good work that you do for the end yes i want to thank you for coming back on let's talk healthy pets and i actually want to thank you for zac even though i wanted to choke you for a few months there