violation seven forty five will have a public hearing for dimitri's red snapper alleged alcohol violation eight thirty p m will have a public hearing for the lafayette house alleged alcohol violation and nine fifteen public hearing for the renaissance evening tonight there's another evening planned parks merely a week from now and then a third session three weeks from now there are four license holders who are scheduled to be heard tonight in the notice that was provided to each of those license holders who was a suggestion that they could contact my office to discuss than the nature of the proceeding to schedule before your board i did in fact hear from o board i do expect that each of the series is going to proceed on an agreed statement of facts that is i've heard from each of the license holders that there is no dispute as to the happening  therefore it considerably shortens that the nature of the hearing it's not a disputed hearing will have facts provided by such a newnan by way of a summary as to each of the violations as to each license holder each of the license holder as well will have an opportunity to address the board with their their  own their own issues or concerns or any remedies that they have to take in themselves so each will have the opportunity following that you will be the board's opportunity to deliberat on a proper disposition of each of these alleged violations and you can do that immediately following that each of the hearings or you could take the hearing under advisement and decide at some later time what the appropriate disposition would be that that will be your choice but in this instance and i do believe that by the way each of the license holders each of the schedule hearings though at different times tonight are all here now because of the nature of this public hearing one that does not include any testimony or evidence from other members of the public so long as each of the license holders is willing to agree to proceed even in advance of the scheduled time we can we can move right through them so with that i would call to the table  generally we found out apartment orders on conducting a compliance check with the valid and authentic dedication will we do as we have the under age operative go through the rules and regulations that are spelled out clearly and explain to him we have a plainclothes undercover officer watch the interaction between the under age operative and the establishment staff during this operation the under age operative would go in with his valid true and authentic massachusetts protocol license which clearly indicates that he's under age twenty one and actually spells out in red lettering that he is underage twenty one and tells the date that he will turn twenty one in this case he turns twenty one in two thousand sixteen and you supplied monies to purchase alcohol with ok and did you say that you have an undercover officer in the establishment the same time either within the establishment or within eye view from outside the establishment ok and you position yourself somewhere idea of where is that in a close proximity to the establishment ok is is your up if here tonight he has you could you point out  he's pointed out the operative's name is mr marin ellie under age twenty one and how does this operation proceed generally from them once the operative enters the establishment  thousand and fourteen a line in a series of goals that we had for the year as well as also advising them throughout the year we would be conducting an alcohol compliance check out was also an article written in the august twenty eighth two thousand and fourteen fox reporter outline and again our goal is to combat underage drinking including compliance checks and this operation was conducted on what day thursday september twenty fifth concludes that the background information i think at this time would be appropriate to call the first license david to repeat the public hearing notice accordance with massachusetts general was in the tate in chapter one thirty eight sections twenty three sixty four in sixty seven in all amendments there to the purpose of the hearing be to review and discuss information concerning alleged presented his true valid and authentic massachusetts driver's license which is a vertical driver's license that represents him being under age twenty one producer to the bartender the bartender looked at it returned it back to him and then it should be yes and what would happen next we left the area and i made contact with one of by the time i tried to get back to that which was closed to make contact with the owner the next day and advised him of the violation i don't know why it happened it should not happened it was a mistake big huge mistake and it won't happen and we have a new thing that we put together a jail that i don't have a lot of employees have like for part time by attendance and five part time way to says this is my solution all of your raw stuff is to be certified yes so these rules are posted in employees have to sign off on them yes how often do you review the rules with them they are happy they have to sign it every single yeah and actually the rules one through three i believe on the sheet have been enforced since we have been open he's going to be the one while christine is going to teach that first class that's on my before he's going to have to teach the rest of them which i figure that's what he should do and i don't know what else to say thank license and we feel that we've become a very strong part of this community and many different aspects and i please i hope you take that into consideration the other questions from comments was it was a thursday night was with respect to capacity was it it was a quiet night was it  for patriot came days and for all that's really the only time or open or not open for contests but we do have a tip certified doorman specifically just for that and every single person i aidid would be the harm of carting everybody regardless of age to take the guessing right out of it we actually did do that at the beginning and because now i'd say ninety five percent of our customers are regulars regulars meaning that they are there three four times a week five times a week with their families for dinner and so on and that respect  you know i mean that would cause me if i were behind by that would cause me to take notice and the fact that the and i can't stress enough of an under aged under twenty one license is a veritable license it's very easy to spot that it's a verdict that it's an under twenty one and the fact that it was handed to the by a tender paid no attention the beer was given anyway or decide by way of disposition this particular matter i should say that this license holder as well as the others to come to light we've found have no prior history with respect to alleged if the testimony is over we would close that we can poison we please make a finding and then we could make a recommendation yeah i mean the way that these are schedule tonight we've got seven seven forty five and eight thirty three so there's this  that i don't know i have i have a set thing in my mind maybe it'll change listening to the other three following how this can happen in what our process is but i don't i don't have a strong preference if we want to close it in deliberate and come to conclusion conclusion and then move on to the next one i'm fine with that or wait till the end i'm ok with that david just in terms of keeping each one of these isolated is that something we should consider in terms of dealing with them if they want to hear that they are their own facts each one of them may vary and in some respects you certainly have the right to consider the facts of each case individually the point i made earlier is that simply that they they all come to you has agreed that the violation of as occurred and no prior history so only in that respect well i'm afraid that if you hear them all and deliberate at the end though bleed into one another although they're pretty similar  we can do the deliberations and such that i certainly am not going to let them bleed into each other they're going to be still fresh in my mind but i like to deliberate at the end i guess and one other thing we do have a public input component to this is one of the other ones we had of someone in the audience who want to say something so i don't know if anyone's here to to do that but that should happen individually you know that at the end deville that's not normally a component of a disciplinary hearing under section thirty four which is where this proceeding is is held that the license holder has the right to address the board  it's not the same and unfortunately as a as a hearing the issue a license where the you know the issue of public good is before your board and this is purely an issue of discipline that's between the board in the license holder ok i appreciate that but i think correct me if i'm wrong had we not have we not done that on all the other ones that we've done over the past several years if you say not that we shouldn't do it then that's fine but i think we are i don't know what the practices but no most want t the second part then we have to vote on the facts whether or not you can find a violation correct yes in other words we've heard the testimony but before we close it we make a motion which all i can tell you is that it it's been agreed that each one of these ok i'm not being confrontational but i know the other ones that we've had have been agreed and i remember making motions to that point i don't want to get to the point where we we put conditions on something and then we've never voted that there was an actual violation but i don't so you see this we have to have a motion to accept the facts as presented to us and that we agree it was a vote i think the motion that has to be a motion so now we can close the hearing yes so now i make a motion to close the hearing on chicken finn flynn's alleged liquor violation i'll second that again all those in favor we can move to the next hearing it's high school media center at one twenty south street tracks from mass pursuant to its licensing authority in accordance with massa to just general laws in the tate it chapter one thirty eight sections twenty three sixty four in sixty seven in all amendments there put it in front of them the rage operative at no time did the bartender asked for identification short time later after taking possession of the beer the underage operative asked to cash out at which time he proceeded to pay for the beer received change in a receipt  all this this transaction was seen by a undercover plain clothes officer and was the receipt recovered in this manner it was was there anything the owner of dmitri's and we agree to the facts as presented by the police department there is no dispute what happened and there is no dispute what happened was wrong i'm not sure if you remember this took control of the license several years ago and of significant cost well of over and above what a normal license would go for these days just because of the issues with the tosh that problem but nonetheless he understands both the value of license he understands what had to have happened was wrong he understands the responsibility goes whipple license accordingly he has discussed this with the bartender who did serve the under age operative and that her shifts have been cut down from five to two and that's not as a disciplinary measure it is more of a measure of basically letting her have more time to rest and be alert on the job and function as is one should expect they have further firms basically a card everyone policy as it was discussed or submitted by the police department done a vacation was not asked for we understand that the problem with that and we're taking steps to make sure it doesn't happen again additionally even though the restaurant staff in its entirety had been certified back in june tenth but twenty fourteen with these stop training personnel changes over fairly often in the industry they are scheduling again entire recertification of everyone who works in the restaurant basically forthwith as soon as they can schedule a class again all the employees will be required to basically recertif grant no one is disputing what happened steps are being actively taken to make sure does not happen again and we would like the board's consideration of those when you deliberate as to what happened the only possible request that we would have is after a period the board feels appropriate whether it's a year or two years if in fact there are no further violations because this is a one time finance we would ask that you consider expunging the  that you're aware that each you mentioned that you go through turnover as a stick you know yes pretty standard to the industry you're aware that not want to but this morning for the entire wait staff is the only thing we do it's just we are not simply going to make sure that new employees are trained but rather the entire staff people if they have been trained  know the type of patron that comes to your spouse when is it you have many patrons that are twenty one to twenty five i mean the appearance of just for now is that an unusual event to see someone that every single day i scream is too late for me i know that there's a lot of turnover in the restaurant industry but notice was sent out i believe in january that compliance checks like this were going to happen during the year was everyone on your staff were never any problem  now still there but no there so i guess the question is why why did she not card somebody that came in that looked as young as i was and i don't party tenders instructed to just card people who were looking a certain age or was your policy to ask for id for all patrons who came in because you're changed it now do you have any signs up for your employees reminding them of the requirements you do have both safe because the financial and the free to sign one  licensing authority in accordance with massachusetts general laws in the tate it chapter one thirty eight sections twenty three sixty four and sixty seven in all and then minutes there to the purpose of the hearing will be three of you and discuss information relative to the lafayette house on september twenty fifth two thousand and fourteen well conduct an underage compliant check in all the license establishments under age operative enter the lafayette restaurant of rational eight or nine p m made its way to the bar had time he received a receipt made payment and left the box was this transaction observed by either of you were one of your colleagues there was a plainclothes guy and you said that there was a recovery of a receipt made in this case and there's no recovery the under age operative left the bar of that time nothing no further questions for officer noonan alice members of the it was the was that you are busy at the time or was this i didn't make it inside so it was a thursday night it will be this or no it's actually at a public hearing but it was not busy because i looked on my cameras ok so there was a box and now wasn't distracted whether the bar was busy or was i'm busy there's no excuse because one officer noonan called me the next day i won't repeat what i said to her and i fired or immediately i didn't even let her finish talking i says you're fired and i says furthermore if you go to work somewhere else i will find out where that is and i will call that owner to tell them what you did in my business and furthermore i suggested to special counsel that the town should consider arresting the bartenders because here's the issue she can't she serve a minor let's say your child walks in there she serve and he's involved in the acts and afterwards i think we all have a problem at that point also they know they're going to get fired by me and weren't fired like four people in twenty two years so it's pretty cut and dry that now my business which i wasn't there i was a public meeting she could steal money from me she knows she's gone and i or you have a disgruntled employee who's going to give their notice and they know it's a sting can they do it and they there's no repr kushan you don't see her here today is far as notifying the employees i do notify am i actually when we get a letter from the town we make a copy of it we attach it to every paycheck we make a copy of the letter post ploy bulletin board highlight it and we reiterate it for some reason i don't know why we did not get this last letter but that is still not an excuse i actually liked it when the police officer used to walk into the bar and say here you go ron you know just want to give you a heads up be on the ball because the employees then go why was he here your there's a sting operation going to be going on in the next three months and you'll get a copy of this letter really drives it home when that blue shirt standing in your building and we have a standard policy i have a couple of them one if they're under thirty card i'm if they come in later in the evening i don't care how old they are find out why they're coming in because i always say no one gets out of bed at nine o'clock at night and takes a shower and comes to lafayette house that's why on game day if it's a night game and it's an eight twenty game we close it eight thirty because there's nothing good going to happen when those people come out of that stadium and there is no excuse for and i will not tolerate that she was that was her first bartending job but what was interesting out of it was she's forty nine years old and she had just taken time off you know couple months or a month earlier to take her daughter to college who was not twenty one and i says just think there's somebody out there now potentially servant your daughter s you know that i mean we know all our customers i mean and it's obvious when somebody walks in you know that i mean even during the day if someone walks in and i don't recognize  i get suspicious you know there's more issues than just you know illegal drinking you know they might be going to rob you know there's all kinds of issues so i'm we're always on the awareness of it  and that's all i have to say to saying this she didn't receive somehow didn't receive yeah you know you can't blame the police department you know post office it could it but a new postman might have got stuck up with another i hope but you've been around a long time  so campbell trends already been in to get that on done and i don't wait forty five days i tell me it's condition employment i give them fourteen you know i don't want some way they're forty five days and then say oh well y forgot about it so make me to do it on line or do it in a class you think daniel training is enough i don't have employee turnover has much as you know maybe some other places i think with with those letters and the training it does help i mean my wife is very rarely there and i made her get tips certified is what i have said or everyone has to be to survive in front of the house you know how do you how do you determine who's thirty years old and was that gentleman right there is obviously not thirty years old and anybody who thinks he's thirty years old is an idiot and that's literally what i told her so do you think that policy is good enough it is with people who can think that's why i fired her because she can't think or act like i'm not going to give her a second chance after officer newman called me it was very clear what she did what would be the harm of carting everybody i would say to you in my business probably ninety nine percent of the people are fifty years old that's what even makes it more obvious that he's under age i mean my son's twenty if he's in it when he's in there he stands out like a sore thumb that gentleman there stands out like a sore thumb one he's not known to the stablish mitt until he's under age he's not even close to twenty one i mean i  you know sometimes we do we have a funeral coalition so you get a mixed audience of people in there that normally aren't in your business and very obvious who's not twenty one old don't allow it thank you so i'll make a motion finding the fact that the employee at the lafayette house served alcohol to a minor as outlined in the letter stated october dated sixty seven and all amendments that the purpose of the hearing will be to invite you in discuss information concerning alleged violations of chapter one thirty eight that occurred at the renaissance hotel at peyton place twenty eight pages place a client of my firm i own and i think five other hotels for all the hotels in the commonwealth and some you know other jurisdictions to my knowledge they've never had a you thank you first i would like to publicly apologize to the board on behalf of our ownership in the management of the renaissance hotel for failing to recent compliance for conducted on september twenty fifth as i indicated to my entire team at that time and you know all of the work accomplished since opening in may of two thousand and nine was immediately compromised when we let our guard down and allowed this to occur every member of the team here is well aware of the impact this has on our ownership in their business our page really a patriot place partners as well as our standing in this community i would like it is time to briefly summarize for you the measures we m  acted as well as those that are in pos s for the the property to continually address our management responsibility with regard to the night of the twenty fifth upon learning of the infraction approximately eleven thirty p m the restaurant manager alerted myself scott williams the assistant manager and a coke of the food beverage director either through email or a phone call which is our pota call with if something happens  the bartending question that evening that served the guest was a merely notified of the infraction they were explained what this situation was and following our company guidelines was suspended immediately and then employment was terminated in due process per our company's zero tolerance policy that is in place for all our hotels the food and beverage manager on duty that evening was documented for lack of oversight during the time frame of this is that the management team is required to always be present on the floor during peak service times in the outlets and their responsibility we guarding the management is very clear over the span of the following two days of the incident two mandates were enacted per my direction first all beverage service staff was scheduled for mandatory alcohol awareness week training that took place on tuesday october seventh this is conducted by mike tips training classes that took place on october fourteenth for all our beverage service associates all staff per our company is required and must be to certified and we acquired all to be immediately we certified due to this incident taking place in addition we currently have an event day policy to check all i d s for all guests and we've changed that to every require as of september twenty sixth i did check for any and all guests requesting alcohols service that is i was zero tolerance policy in place also daily stand ups we have alcohol awareness session that is conducted with all our staff for every shift every day in recapping this was and has been extremely frustrating and certainly an embarrassment for me and the hotel management staff since opening in two thousand and nine we have been very successful in the management of our beverage licensing guidelines we took significant pride as a team each time a compliance check happen and we correctly identify the individual and did not serve them the entire management service team was devastated when the single incident based on the poor judgment and decision making by one individual erased five years of one hundred percent cohesive and focused disappear difficult to race we will however continue to be diligent i was sponsibility for the privilege of serving alcohol to beverages in this location we are fully committed to continue this to as for larp aeration of the future and believe that the measures put in place now and are concentrated efforts daily will ensure that we are responsible and compliant in operation of a business with the town foxborough i thank you for your time and i appreciate any and all considerations these things are inevitable absolutely we it's part of the daily conversation and it has been i've been on the property sense october of two thousand and twelve has been as it has been my f and b director and we're both a proponent of intense you know you mentioned daily shift awareness how do you communicate that to your to your staff how was that communicated the the ship shift manager either on duty and many times vic the food beverage director is there as well they go over what the what the the rule is we check every id we look for not only the birth date but we look for the expiration date as well since this is happened we've found i believe two incidences where the identification that we had was the correct birth date but not the right issue and state so it was it was an old i d s so we go over that every day and  we're just as intense as we as we can be everything every single day the message back to the staff is very clear thank you with the information that you just just gave us and in your daily  evening we're not typically to be busy on a thursday night we go through periods her reply was just i thought he was one of the the members of a company that we have in our hotel a lot she said she thought he she recognized him as one of the attendees who had been in the hotel before and obviously was not so it was a busy read rather busy thursday evening it's close to not too many people that typically do not i think at that particular time we've got a few extra people and at the time there was a rush i was not there at the time but it was a short period of the busy but typically thursday night isn't overwhelmed as what a friday or saturday and it was just a poor decision making a move on that person's part and you i'll ask a similar question that i asked earlier also so in addition to all of the pre shift conversations at the workstations where the bar tenders or service go to are there any signs or reminders that the help yes i is posted that we have to check for for everybody who is forty wonder if they blew look at that and the postings are on every bulletin board that we have in the back area of the back of the house area so i feel that we we do do a lot to to make it aware to everybody and unfortunately this this individual made a bad decision along had this individual been employed by this individual been about two years actually she was one of our bar's supervisors which again put more of an impact on us this individual has had a great record for the two years that she's been there and when we told her she didn't have a job she knew exactly why and we've had that in front of us before and we've we've been told no because of expense we've said no because we've been told no because it jams up the system some places have done it but if it's a little sporadic depending management staff and his management staff has been extremely diligent so that that's one of the reasons they didn't consider machine incorporated dva renaissance hotel a patriot place served alcohol to minor as outlined in the letter dated to the board october twenty eighth two thousand and fourteen and board accept the findings of the letter as presented thank you thank you and which we have a copy of that there are there's a section that talks about the range of reasonable disciplinary actions to consider and i was wondering if you could run through these with us short a reprimand in any of these cases where there is no history of them of any other violations three days up to the i'm sorry up to three days right that has been consistent all along here in the town of foxboro in addition to that with some consultation with the town manager and with the chief of police there were has been also discussion of other  options and in these instances and one which i think you've already heard briefly from the manager of the lafayette house where it's it's quite clear from the from the law that it's a strict liability statute that is if this delivery or sale of alcohol to an underage person there is exposure to criminal liability we have suggested to the the town manager  to police it with the cooperation of the norfolk county district attorney's office that if there is a complaint for criminal liability sought against the individual there could be a greater sense of accountability on the part of servers who undertake the irresponsible action of serving a person under age twenty one we could make that recommendation it will be up to the foxboro police and ultimately the district attorney's office if they will continue to pursue that that we have you know but i would judgment is that it's a strict liability statute there is criminal responsibility for personal sale and delivery to an underage person that's independent of these proceedings independent of these proceedings where there's clear evidence of delivery there there there is a very serious criminal penalty by statute in addition to that we and direct mail to all license holders i think with respect to at least those that do word noncompliant in addition to all license holders a nother spacek conducted by the by the expense of those license holders so if if the board's interested that in part is is our recommendation if you're ready to deliberate as i said earlier operating and would set in accordance with section twelve of chapter one thirty eight must be the subject of a separately noticed hearing as to the public need for each decrease so this would mean if if we chose to have reduced the liquor change the look at closing us would have to have a separate hearing and that the some afraid to say that that's a little bit of a technicality ok in that operating hours is subject to a different section of the statue then the disciplinary action the you operating under tonight the the operating hours is is is a matter for your consideration for the public good it  sanction violations you know optional here and quote with a separate hearing you know it's wording to that effect just so that everybody knows yes about th special occasions like patriots games new year's eve is that the same situation it is under section twelve again you have the opportunity to make a judgment of what is in the public interest keeping in mind safety economy and other concerns your board might have that's entirely within your discretion in really not a matter of of discipline that you have before you tonight they attorney to look at in the past we've had a situation where we're reviewing a local violation from a foxboro operation and they've been in front of us concurrently there's been a situation where the state also had a violation against the establishment in the left hand didn't know what the right hand was doing and i think it's set up that way do we have any indication that all of these establishment are not under review right now from a team that's working in the community has always provided me information of their activities and more importantly when there's been a violation he's also made me aware of it you know so that my staff  cognizant about it so i haven't heard of anybody independently i saw chief inspector mahoney earlier this week and we've had full conversations about some of the operations both that they've done in cooperation with us in the country western show as well as recently had people doing it inspection of gillette stadium so he hasn't ok has what we know about any of these facilities having any problems thank you so i wish i had asked that question when the owners were up here but is it maybe unusual but i know everybody still in the audience could i ask if that's the case somebody would come forward and say they are under review by the state that we're not knowing about it right now fine i think i unilaterally from these establishment start the operators but the employees of me where i would consider to be egregious decisions for a cavalier attitude towards a serving alcohol and that may or may not have a reflection on the owners of these establishments but the fact that nine establishment failed this compliance check in one night is disturbing and they didn't even get to all the establishment in town so the you see a pattern and that's that's my worry is that you know while these may have been the first violations that you know the sting actually produced clearly other violations may have taken place the sting doesn't pick up so it's the is the fact do within the community to maybe schedule up so that we would have a higher percentage of challenges so to speak and not have i believe it was thirteen nineteen businesses that were open during the time of these compliance checks that would certainly be on our radar and i think without our role like a regulations under the penalty phase i think we had some already as to a mandatory look back within a certain time frame as i recall because within the last two years we rewrote the look a regulation so this proves all of the the committee we had good input from the licensees themselves to try and make them as clear as possible both for them to follow and more importantly for us to that have forced them and you know it really strikes me that you know back when we were working on those regulations we talked about just how to collaborate with the businesses to try and always maintain this high standard that everyone is we know is striving for and you know maybe this is a time to reconvene a group to you know talk about can there be additional training in terms of doing internal stings things like that you know to just continue to an enhanced awareness of not enough for the employees going back to the communities past we actually had a group that developed through a result of compliance checks that we did in the ninety's they call themselves foxboro rod was certainly evolved you know not quite in my age bracket but he certainly you know was an active member as were other establishments in town and they at times did conduct the all so called stinks and had an underage person and we had both red and green cards that they would give out green bean you know they were challenged and asked for id and read they were failed and at the next meeting after that event you know there might have been some red faces if they didn't pass out amongst their own peers and that's something that in a discussion with a couple of the people that had contacted me  was discussed there's nothing that prevents them from helping one another be successful so that their staffers aware of it had as mr deluca said in future compliance checks i've had a conversation at awaiting a reply from the district attorney's office that perhaps will go that one step further so that the individual that makes set sail has a personal consequence and stead of just slowing it off to the license holder that man may not have had anything to do with that transaction and has been doing the right things in terms of the mandated training the reviews you know prior to show you know just talking about this important issue you david if we were to actually go in that direction of criminal prosecution is that something that would need to be written into the regulations or is that just totally independent of the liquor license regulations that you can initiate that and the district attorney's office to pursue that application process and then put it before those authorities to determine whether or not there's reason to pursue it would be a for that that action that i would i would assume that the district attorney's office would would it would accept that as as a as a good running start on on pursuing a complaint and so that would be  part of that i thanked him for violations that would be noted and that you know the information would be sent up further right with the with a request or recommendation to pursue a criminal matter  chile but the most compelling piece of that that situation is that is the point that that ron had made earlier was and is that the person who actually made the mistake is really not even here right and i t's really no credibility for that other than the fact that it was possible because it was issued or get suspended for some of the work and you hear how hard the business owners are working to keep this in compliance so it's it's definitely an  a recommendation is to is for the imposition of a one day suspension as each of these violators but that it be held in abeyance for a period of six months to a year and during that time that the police would would do an unannounce is your suggestion that say at approximately six months that there be a report from the people who fall into this category that just you know demonstrates what actions have been taken and yes and so we would have another hearing at that into the hearing process would always say anything to this position which you hear would be considered as well ok so we agree that those unannounced inspections in the police department is on board with that those will take place within the six months it's always been that way so thank you for making our job a little bit easier so we're not second guessing the process i've had bad experiences with holding things in i f you do better then it goes away because we're dealing with other situations where they're coming back again after different violations i looked at you know and i know some of these managers and a very good people and they're very good in the community and it's a situation where sometimes you're only as good as your staff and i think the staff let the people down so it doesn't take me any pleasure in getting on a soapbox in talking about you know children in keeping the roads safe i think we've done that before and we keep coming back to the same place i look at the first violation of a letter of reprimand in a suspension of three days or both and i would i was and i would like  command a letter of reprimand in a three day suspension and if they do better i don't i don't have a lot of interest in having people come back to the board to let us know how they're doing with the new rules and regulations i i'm past that right now i want to three day suspension i don't see it with any any happiness because i know these people but at some point someone's going to say enough enough if you can't ask for a license you can't do your job it falls on somebody else to say what is it going to take for you to do the job and i think a three day suspension chances of them coming back with whatever rules that they have not working again it's a lot better if there is some hard punishment and that's what i'm going to recommend to this board that we do with three day suspension i'm not in the business of which days are good in which days or not for business they can you know they can pick them in shoes that they want but i'm going to recommend a three day suspension in a letter of reprimand held in abeyance jim and i was i was actually going to suggest a sign on the bar that says we apologize for the inconvenience but we will card everybody and if we don't let my manager know because it feels like i'm babysitting and again i know these people and it's not coming down on the owners but what is going to get you know i've heard you know it's great two people were fired and i don't know the people but you know that severe you two people weren't people run businesses different differently but i'm looking at it taking the personal side out of it we've got first violations second one violation third violation with that was put together by a group of people including the chief has spent a lot of time on this in nowhere and here i says well here's a violation but we give them a second chance we'll hold it for six months and then through that before in it didn't work so close and it happened to be a time when they normally closed in the middle of winter anyway it really didn't have much teeth in it i'm with you on the suspension side i'm not sure if three days is the appropriate amount the thing is we are and i said this earlier the fact that nine establishment failed in one night and the other there was a number of a style which was a warning and visited and i wonder had they been visited would we have twelve failures i think it's time to put some teeth in the penalties i don't know i don't mean to be you know cruel but the fact is we've we've given a lot of what was a reprimand and  operators don't train their employees in a lot of cases it was a huge employee's bad judgment but ultimately management is responsible for so well are we to do discuss the amount of suspension but i am agreeable that a suspension is warranted there's obviously a disconnect between the education and the training and what's being filtered down to the to the line staff does forty two liquor licenses in this town which is a wrist they they have no value it'll happen again so i think we need to send a message on a thursday and that was done purposely to make sure that there there there was no confusion and i just cannot get over first of all not asking that not asking for license are if the license was provided that license was a vertical license five different from a horizontal license or even a over twenty one so in my art the license wasn't even asked for it's just a complete negligence on the part of the service letter of reprimand definitely and but i do think the i do think a three i think a three day suspension is i can live with that i was i was hoping for at least a minimum of one day but i was open to up to three and i think if any of the board members are on that same page i go along with that because this is this is very serious and we had it was last year there were four this she had the one now and i mean when is the message going to get out you know it's not like this was the first time they did the sting they've done the stings in previous years only they savage men should be expecting it first of all they should be just following the laws anyway and asking for id and if it's not a proper id they shouldn't be serv so i am ok with the three day suspension letter of reprimand and three day suspension thank you david i just want to clarify in chief so at this point the three recommendations that were provided to us initially by you criminal charges are an actual you know we could actually do that at this point initiate that are you saying well that's it's you unfortunately don't control whether or not understand the frustration of the board you know where we find ourselves in the this position especially this year with so many of these violations happening my concern is you know i sit here and i listen to how  strongly the management works how hard the management works to keep their businesses in compliance and my concern is that you know these are obviously not what they want to have happen and i think sending the message to the owners we're kind of missing the mark it's the employees i think that have to be brought up to that same level of accountability and again i think making that request to have that considered for criminal prosecution is to me i think a better way to send a message as to how serious th takes this i believe that each business in this case this is their first violation many of them you know have no history at all maybe there's one twenty years ago for one of them i'm just concerned that we i have to balance our expectation of accountability with what's the reality that the biggest business owners are could i could be open to one day suspension but you know initiating that chris colonel the request for criminal prosecution and you know i think the different ways that each of the businesses handle their business in terms of whether or not they keep those employees on that's the they have established their level of risk tolerance and so if it if another  staying occurs and they have another problem that's a whole different story so well lorraine when when these owners are granted a license by this board they and then they've been in this business for a long time they know the responsibilities of that license innocently the responsibility to select and train employees is borne by them right now occasionally they'll be an outlier and occasionally they'll be an employee that shuts the brain off but but ultimately you know while the employee if it was that egregious that it warranted  investigation by the police to see if there was a crime committed by serving you know we're here to determine whether or not the establishment trained or selected their employees properly and in all these cases the fact that the the attitude of looking that's why i think i would be open to it one day suspension but again i don't want to ignore the fact that we have to hold the employee who's going to put the employer in this risky position that they will be concerns me a little bit is it is interesting in two we have not heard before in the third part is i haven't met any of these by ten as we hearing it second and third hand that's not on and that's not under our control we can make a recommendation to the district attorney the police chief are going to pass it but i don't have a lot of faith that it's going to actually get to court and it is going to be because i just don't know it's an interesting concept i wish i had known about it earlier from last instances but i don't want to hang my hat on saying oh we're going to be tough and we're going to make recommendations for criminal prosecution and then by eight thirty tomorrow morning we get letters from all over their attorney saying it's not possible because of statute x y and z so  that information would have been nice to have so i can think about it so i don't want to go in that direction and gets satisfaction that it's going to happen and then lose sight of the fact of the things that we do have control over i think it's a come i'm viewing it as a combination you know a suspension up until this point you know again we've always had these options we have typically for the first infraction issued so but you know i look at i try to look at these individual but i also look at the context of the community and you know five years ago was different than it is now and two years from now you know we're talking about getting more liquor licenses this is this these rules unwritten regulations were written not too long ago which were a lot different than what was there a few years ago and things have changed even in the last year or so i just keep going back to the if something happened in we didn't do anything that's in our control to address it on a community wide basis how do you answer that when someone gets killed and you know an eighteen year old kid drives out and kill somebody and we're sitting there arguing about well which piece of paperwork can we do and not do i think the suspension when they leave this room is going to change their business to the better from a community perspective and again i don't take pleasure in it and i and excuse me they said yes i know i don't like this i don't like sitting here in judgment but this is our job in this is what we were given by that group that you were sitting on this is these are our options and there's nothing in here that says a band that actually says the board may modify suspend revoke or cancel a license and h what recommend recommending you know when people come before us foreign new license are a change of manager despoiled always says now remember the with we have very with very strict about licensing and we we will hold you to a standard well we really have not been holding them to the standard if you don't know home to a standard then you do for the first of reprimand and up to three days for a suspension that's a standard and i think in and it's not like this is the first time we've done this this is a yearly sting that we do and the restaurants and bars have been here for a while they know they know what's coming because they get a letter saying it's coming so what's the point just as does the boy would ignore the fact that the bartenders ignored the rules and regulations of the town in of the state you have to be twenty one to drink you have to show id you have to have a verb a horizontal id to be over twenty one a vertical to be under twenty one i i don't know what's so hard about that and that's why i agree that it's time the board of selectmen actually set does what it says it's going to do it's going to be strict in its interpretation of the regulations in regard to violations that's a geisha it certainly would be a firmer position to take if it were part of your regulations but as with with any potential criminal violation there needn't be a regulation that would justify the pursuit of a criminal complaint so the answer your question sure it could be a matter that you would request be brought forward examined and so really i pursued invited range of options that you have in the table before you i think as a as an action the board perhaps you could ask for support on option one option two option three and see and to see w a recommendation given that the i would say monday tuesday and wednesday would not have much of an impact i would suggest having thursday friday saturday was another option and i think this would go a little bit too would be to have subsequent friday nights but i'm going to make a recommendation that we choose a day at a time in the calendar for thursday friday saturday night suspension any other co think and i even though i made the motion three days is a hefty i don't think anybody came in here expecting three days it is a and in fact it is a business change they going to have to make is he going to have to serve food without alcohol and some people may just turn around and not come in i'm ok with having them pick the days as a transition into what i think is a harsh penalty and maybe maybe one day on the weekend i think we have to be  the option that they were going to go through why that's why if it if the operator gets to choose the date generally they're going to they're going to choose the date was going to has the least amount of impact on the business correct but there's three dates on this so y occurred on this is a thursday night you know i would suggest that it be a thursday night again and to their choice if they have functions already in place so we wouldn't want to try to resolve this particular issue is if they come back to us with what they would suggest again not prejudicing their right of appeal because they still would have a right of appeal but if they come back to us with  they think is is reasonable for a three day suspension your board could consider it and then make a determination and would need to make a determination on each of the individual license holders so could we suggest a we make a motion to as part of the violation phase to recompute to require a three day suspension of sale of all alcohol plus a letter of reprimand three days to be held three days to be agreed to by the board with a recommendation from the license holder in those three days shall be held prior to night there will be the matter to take up as well whether or not you will issue a stay once you do set the dates the board will need to decide whether or not it will agree to a stay of the imposition of a of the suspension itself given right to your time to pursue the appeal can you explain that in every in every instance where you would issue a suspension there's a right of a appeal or hearing before the to go into effect imminently typically the a b c c doesn't have the ability to hear that appeal within the first say thirty sixty or even ninety days  so it's incumbent upon the license holder to make a request to your board whether or not you would consider a stay of that penalty during the time the appeal is pending days but soon within a written with five years with a written see the relief right written the session so whatever action comes out of the eighteenth will be put into full of a lot of the with an issue to the to the various license holders and they would have five days do we need to make any further individual motions or no i think i once we've we've got some advice from license holder if they choose to do to provide us with that information then now you can go about