fifty day rule and if based on the the entries it was time to the t to ensure that whatever that december twenty seventh entry was if it could possibly trigger based on the one hundred fifty day rule he would be timely and so this is why it's our position that there's just no way to to to view of the facts as to have this not be a timely appeal is it a practice here for for lawyers to ask the trial judge t for so whenever the crazy happens you have at least that that you can count on us ok let me go into one of the bit of craziness why isn't this moot we've got a wonderful situation here where our consent judgment is entered million dollars against him so i guess assuming that the insurance company's going to be on the hook for that million dollars why isn't that the end of this man he's been sent to a judgment against the money arises because there was an assignment of all his right there's an entry of summary judgment so i wasn't moot because a court entered summary judgment before he denied the motion for substitution as looked so there is technically an adverse decision in this case with regard to the insurance coverage but the only  but only the opinion we don't have a separate order at that time there still has been a separate order this in a separate order by operation of law ok so but there's a summary judgment opinion y now that there is no coverage which we believe is a rome yes because it was entered at the time the court had no such managers to question because there was no case and controversy the sign that simon was was entered into september tenth at that point in time unless of the court had lee realize he was not to be able to defend the case he entered into a valid assignment a consent judgment this happens all the time in the virgin islands these types of agreements and he said ok mr nurse this is your assignment this is your consent judgment you court denied the motion to intervene a substitute the only other alternative was a dismissal he did not proceed to adjudicate the matter on the merits and to the extent he did that that's erroneous he had no jurisdiction it was supposed to be dismissed as  is only worth something if lloyds and or an insurance carrier remain somehow all right that's an easy well yeah yeah yeah i guess so you got to keep the carrier somehow no not as one and it may be raised at some point in the proceedings i would fully expect and this is where the carrier and this is why the this the fact that summary judgment was entered when the court had no jurisdiction becomes important to have it reversed because if you don't have jurisdiction over somebody over something and the person who has all the interests x a come in and you don't allow them to you your only alternative was to say there is no longer any jurisdiction it's over call that a get your claims elsewhere that was not done this is why this appeal has to be taken so that we can have a summary judgment ruling off the record that's any more questions i will see from my it's over if you believe them we don't believe it's archived could you speak into the microphone but that's about it if we don't believe that the timing is correct of when nails time lost any but certainly they just told you the nails time didn't have standing and under assignment does not grant what she says i believe it is the entry of the consent judgment but just based on their own admissions at the moment they are saying that nails time had no interest in this case as of september october so why are so why is no time here the reality is is that there are two duties in the sermons contractor jurors know from your own cases caterers defense and indemnification we were litigating indemnification because defense was already being provided on a reservation of rights in that continues because the whole issue is their coverage so that does continue until december twenty seventh two thousand and thirteen no matter what anybody says but the reality is one such determination is made in december to twenty seven two thousand and thirteen there is the duty of terminating the defense you can't just terminated offense because a good faith obligation provide a good effects so it's not the lawyers can look at the guy and say we're not on pay anymore he's go look and say well you're going to tell your client either he's going to start paying you or you have to substitute in that requires the kittenish judge the defense the defense is independent of lawyers is provided as a separate mechanism under the insurance policy there's an effort of certain events that have to occur in an ongoing litigation to terminate a defense in this case the terminations was nails time who was directing the your own insured so when you do a defense you have an obligation to give an independent defense counsel who is controlled by the insured well obviously the counsel has an ethical obligation to do correct defense but it's the insured and the counsel together lloyd's is not telling them hey don't do what i am me hey divers so you have to deal with the defense separately so the controversy continues against nails or between nails time eloise until the defense is terminated if it turns out the kittenish judge was very clear about the consent judgment they said that the signing by the nails time meant nothing it was that it was going to require stipulated motion by both counsel and that's in the exhibit a to my brief you will see the order from the kitchen or struggle before she would enter a consent judgment which is in accord with international have to look at nails time and say lawyers are going to pay for the city more you have to get a new council substitute get core permission or they have to terminate the case by consent judgment or going to try it what happens you get terminated by consent judgment that signature on that may seventh document which is an exhibit a my brief is our defense counsel is defense counsel that was paid for nails time so there was a continuing controversy until that happened at that point the defense terminated all issues between lloyd's and nails time terminated if you take them at their word that nails time had no interest in this case as of september tenth or eleventh when the assignment was signed it's a pretty big problem because in their own motion to substitute which is in the cited in my brief and it's in the appendix they specifically said there is an ongoing defense with i am easing a mediation to occur you can have a good faith mediation of both parties are on the same side already you can ask lawyers to come in and paid money to good faith mediation if nails time a kitten or his interests were already settled there would be no mediation that would be a collusive or fraud that's actually true so i mean if you look at what they themselves said of their own motion they don't even believe that the assignment terminated times of position in this case moreover rule twenty five says right on its face that you don't have to take the transfer into the case it's up to the judge's discretion in this case as your honor pointed out there was already a controversy that continued that is is there coverage even kit s has to know if there is coverage so there is already existing controversy is going to continue that controversy ended december twenty seventh two thousand and thirteen what remained with these other issues we submit the nails time had no standing to  the boys didn't have any of them they had five and the other side found that objection to the magistrate's view that the answer counter claims and third party claim were untimely and that objection was still pending and in fact that's the second part of this we don't believe this appeals timely at all no matter what you think of the december twenty seventh two thousand and thirteen judgment one thing we all agree that on march twentieth two thousand and fourteen this case was over every single issue had been resolved every single quarter had been  when the final order was done that's march twentieth two thousand and fourteen they have thirty days the appeal is filed june twenty fifth two thousand and fourteen ninety six days later so we have two things going on here one is our position that neil's time never had standing to file an appeal period moot march twentieth two thousand and fourteen or the date of the consent judgment may twenty first two thousand and fourteen and became moot before the appeal started that's why we say that nails time had no standing to file the appeal the appeal was untimely and that there wouldn't be the remedy would not be to vacate anything that case was over whether they liked the results or not whether they like the orders or not one thing we all know is that the insurance policy doesn't cover the claim that's not even remotely suggested in this appellate brief by nails time everybody can see that it's pretty clear whatever you want to call the december twenty seventh two thousand and thirteen order the reality is it resolve the current position at that time it's important to know december twenty seventh two thousand and thirteen there were no other claims pending in this case nothing say the judge with the declaratory relief is granted and that's what this did whether we like the form of it or not if there are any questions i'm happy to answer them thank you thank you thank you so there seems to be confusion between when there's nothing left to resolve and want to separate document has to be entered so your appellate rights are triggered when that separate document that separate judgment is entered that's different than there is nothing else the result you cannot tax the failure to enter a separate document against the person whose appellate rights would be resolved good would not  to final appeal were that there was nothing in march and march twenty seventh was was there anything further to do there at on march twenty seventh no there was nothing further to do except for the court to enter a separate document as required  fifty eight there has never been a separate document enter here for summary judgment motions are required to have separate judgments that has never been done your appellate rights cannot be triggered unless there is a separate document the separate document if you were to do that then that would mean that the separate document rule would be would be no one void you have to enter a separate judgment that has that still has not been done even the march twentieth opinion there was no separate document was an amended opinion an order there was never a separate judgment and entered in this case so for purposes purposes of appeal whether or not in march twenty there was nothing left to be decided that has nothing to do with the requirement to enter a separate judgment only upon entry of separate judgement are appellate rights triggered that's that's that's the way the rules are that's with analysis goes and you cannot harm the person with a poet rights would be triggered in terms of to this dec action there actually has to be a controversy when mr libby assigned his rights under the policy there was no longer any controversy between lloyd's and illegal here and the direct action makes it alternative is alternative the failure of the court to exercise it the intervention if you don't intervene you have to dismiss those are your options and the court didn't do either he feel to substitute intervene and this mess and the don't let them in you dismiss and then purcell then boys will have to refile against the actual person there's only one person he could actually substitute i guess his interest too and i was nervous because he had a litigation going going on in the in the shortened other case and so you have to substitute and if you didn't do that you have to dismiss and that's why we're here to have the district court do what it should have done to begin with w nothing so if you then let you in you have to dismiss that's the whole point that's that's exactly why you are required to dismiss because all these other procedural problems come in if the real person is not in the litigation you have to