so there is a primitive injunction in place currently requiring carmel to videotape traffic stops and that did not occur in this instance that that was not a why not go to the district court that's in administ it in hindsight that would have been a better course of action and dressing that specific issue aren't particularly interested in this allocation of power between the state and local governments ok and if you were speeding whether violated a state law or a city ordinance you're still that termination if a district if if a police officer had enough information to convince the state trial judge that you were in fact speeding then it would seem too hard to for  that the officer did not have probable cause to believe you were speeding which would justify the stop i just get your point judge but with all due respect using that logic wouldn't that undermine reversal of convictions altogether you're not challenging the conviction here you're challenging at best you haven't said it yet you might be able to challenge the stop in a claim against the individual officer but if he had probable cause to stop you the case is there's no there's no merit to that it and i have an acquittal in a later criminal case does not undermine probable cause for the original arrest and in this acquittal was not on the merits yes judge so what are we doing here so why understanding was that because these issues were spazzed issues and i in that kill expected to prevail and i think that if if you interpret it as such what a side earlier i really question how we look at the criminal cases where the judgment is reversed that that mean that that so i can still contend that  so i think if you look at the allegations you what the officers testimony and the conflicting testimony that the officer gave there are serious questions i think that the jury could have come to a substantially different conclusion than the judge of the bench trial came that the should be spigot given opportunity to advance to the point of summary judgment proceedings or discovery so we can look into this further what's the speed limit now i believe this feeling now is forty miles an hour forty i believe that is the case i have not been to either section recently saw that i did when how fast people go now days why i really question that that i could have been doing the speed through carmel or use that some my testimony that i was not going thirty five miles an hour indicates that i was probably going faster the speed limit which is again  to plaintive with punitive is being sought not available and enforcement of the video injunction being part of a separate injunction in the us procedure as to how to do that if that were too an issue is american certainly including the court of appeals finding that this was a twenty mile an hour speed limit during construction and having been acknowledged that that was in fact the case and what let me just throw a hypothetical  let's let's bury the facts a little bit here where there is a traffic stop and the plaintiff argues that occurred without probable cause and alleges let's say racial motivation on the part of  the police officer plaintiff been wins that ticket case in state court i assume that you'd be able to bring such a claim in federal court right before for a fourth amendment deprivation pointed out plaintiff did not develop and advocate a federal claim sufficiently and then when we see the appellate brief in the reply brief we see a number of waivers of issues and here now we are argument with the two things that are being requested punitive damages and the video injunction so there's it hasn't been sufficiently developed his complaint does talk about you know out of county license plate and such but the objective standard here for the court would be if an officer detects someone speeding and here we have a trial court that so finds that would indeed be probable cause that would be a sufficient clane outside of th stop was premised on my out of county plates and crackles resident helpless and the officers comments during that stop reinforced that again that that is one of the reasons why