good afternoon ladies and gentlemen the committee on veterans affairs subcommittee on economic opportunity hearing on pending legislation will come to order for those of you that monitor this committee's activities more closely you know it's a very bipartisan subcommittee and the ranking member has a number of other responsibilities today in other committees as well as on the floor and so he has asked me to begin the subcommittee hearing in his absence he will join us as soon as possible but i would also like to ask unanimous consent to allow counsel to pose questions to the witnesses on the third and fourth panel seeing no objection so ordered i would also like to call attention to the fact that the cellular telephone industry association the wireless association the disabled american veterans of asked to submit written statements for the hearing record if there is no objection i ask unanimous consent that their statement be entered for the record hearing objections so entered today we have thirteen bills before us that seek to protect our nation's veterans from possible foreclosure and financial burdens incurred while serving one's country update v a housing construction guidelines expanded to cation programs while meeting the current retention needs of the armed forces strengthen employment and reemployment rights for returning service members and veterans and minimize receipt of his among incarcerated veterans according to a congressional research service report updated january twenty fifth two thousand and eight quote the original g i bill provided up to five hundred dollars annually for education expenses this is the equivalent of an estimated five thousand eight hundred ninety dollars in two thousand and seven dollars an additional fifty dollars was provided monthly for living expenses in one nine hundred forty four which is equivalent to five hundred eighty nine dollars monthly or five thousand three hundred one dollars annually in two thousand and seven dollars thus the total education benefit including the living allowance in one nine hundred forty four would have been worth eleven thousand one hundred ninety one dollars annually or one thousand two hundred forty three dollars monthly in two thousand and seven dollars unquote keeping this historic perspective in mind i along with ranking member bozeman of introduced h r fifty six eighty four the veterans education improvement act which seeks to address the educational needs of our brave men and women in uniform this bipartisan bill is the product of numerous hearings held by our subcommittee since the beginning of the hundred tenth congress which allowed for close evaluation of the montgomery g i bill and input from veterans service organizations education leaders government agencies and other policy expert r fifty six eighty four would help address current m t i the shortfalls along with other important improvements including substantially increasing the amount of basic education assistance for veterans equal to the average cost of the tuitions at a four year public college or university provides veterans with a monthly cost of living stipend and extends the time limitation for use of education benefits from ten years to fifteen years more fully accommodating the transition from military to civilian life i would like to add that h r fifty six eighty four includes unique provisions that allow the overall assistance to be used for business courses preparatory courses for exams and to repay federal student loans dramatically expands the opportunity for service members to enroll for the benefits even if they're beyond the initial opportunity for automatic enrollment provides increased funding for state approving agencies an important partner administering the benefits with rewards veterans for their service by eliminating their educational entitlements from being considered  income when applying for federal financial aid increases on the job training and dependent education benefits eighty five percent supplements reporting fees given to colleges and universities creates a five year pilot program to expand work study programs for veterans increases the v a s full time employees by one hundred fifty to help administer the new requirement to provide funding for updating systems and rearrange is the advance pay process to prevent any breaks and benefits h r fifty six eighty four one of the many bills we're considering today provides specific improvements in adjustments meant to make it easier not harder for veterans to access the education benefits they've earned following their service and contribute to the overall national economy in addition this bill will make changes with minimal disruption of the current v a system and to the beneficiary veterans education improvement act is a well crafted bill that provides the v a the resources to administer the new changes to update and improve the m t i be to better reflect today's world and ensure that today's that trends have the resources they need to continue or begin their education when they return from service i appreciate the support of many of today's witnesses for this bill that addresses necessary changes to veterans education benefits i and also joining us on the first panel is the honorable tara rodriguez all of whom are with members of the committee all of the written statements will be entered into the hearing record but will begin with chairman filner be recognized that updates the educational benefits as you have proposed look at the housing program as i will speak to today and also the guard and reserve units to participate in the g i bill to a much greater extent than they are now allowed to do so i think we we are moving along on a major effort to to do something that had such an impact on our society in  four the original g i bill let me just talk about another part of that original bill and that's the home loan program that so many  of the veterans after world war two were able to take advantage of at a hearing in my district we had both active duty and veterans testifying along with the v a experts in this area and mortgage brokers and lenders from the area and based on that testimony and the and how we saw the program as really being not very relevant to the to the not only the current crisis but it probably was irrelevant before then in terms of its loan values in terms of the equity requirements in terms of the refinancing caps in terms of the fees that were imposed so we want to update to make it relevant to the veteran right now one bill i had though i wanted to make sure that we took some quick action on and that is h r forty eight eighty three which prevents foreclosure on active duty personnel we have had anecdotal testimony of young people coming back and finding that they were in fact going to lose their home soon after their tour was over that is unacceptable in this situation active duty should not have to face that consequence and what we have done in h r forty eight eighty three is prevent any foreclosure for at least after for at least a year after they return from active duty sort of a complement to your bill that you just described in terms of updating the home loan program of the veteran's administration it increases the maximum home loan guarantee to six hundred twenty five thousand dollars decreases the equity requirements to refinance a home loan requires the v a secretary to review and streamline the process of using a guaranteed home loan to purchase a condominium right now condominiums are subject to a great deal of regulation and red tape and it's hard to finance a condominium through the veteran's administration we want to reduce the home loan funding fees to one percent extended just of a rate mortgage demonstration project for the year twenty thousand eight hundred sixty in the so called hybrid adjustable rate mortgage demonstration project of two thousand and twelve and provide a yearly adjustment of the v a home loan to read match the consumer price index as i say there are many people in my district but of course around the country millions  facing the prospect of foreclosures the values of the home following and they are not able given the restrictions of the program to use that at all no matter what their situation is and  to that they may be qualified for but to make use of a program that was meant to give them some loan guarantee what we do in h r forty eight eighty four is to is to make that possible for veterans in  situation that we find ourselves today but even without the crisis to make it fit the twenty first century in addition have a bill h r forty eighty nine to be codified the so called reprogram the reserve education assistance program entitlements that provide now up to thirty six months of education benefits to certain members of the reserve forces who are called ordered to active duty service in response to war a national emergency without going into details now  it allows for far more flexibility support and and help for those who are in the reserves who have given so much of their life time to to active duty  again your words are appreciated you're right i have worked hard when he was the chairman of the committee when i was ranking member and in this congress to address the issues of equity or national guardsmen and women and reservists and i would explain that the purpose of your bill that we introduced in a bipartisan way purposely did not include those provisions although i believe chairman filner may have been referring to work that i've been undertaking with council to work in fashion a separate bill for garnering service that would be entirely within the jurisdiction of the armed services committee we wanted to avoid joint was for all for a number of reasons as it related to increasing basic pay the basic benefit in the montgomery g i bill as well as include a number of the very unique provisions that our bill includes that we uncovered during the series of hearings that we've had with this subcommittee but i certainly share your sentiment  and i think all of us do on the subcommittee as well as our colleagues on the full committee of trying to undertake something in a more comprehensive way if that is going to be possible but we want to make sure that depending on which which track the train is on that we have a lot of different options on the table if the comprehensive approach is indeed the track we're on then i think we're all in agreement that we want to make sure your efforts as well as other efforts of those on the sub committee are brought together and i know we're all working good faith with the leadership on the respect that based on our hard work here in the veterans affairs committee however i'm not sure that that's the track it will be and i hope so and we have a great working relationship with people on the armed services committee undertook some of this work even in the defense authorization act of last year so again i appreciate your sentiment i know how hard you've been forth the other member of my committee conferee on the farm bill so he's over doing that so we appreciate you madam chair and working with us and i want to compliment the guys that are administration advises contractors constructing or renovating housing for disabled veterans i was extremely moved by last june hearing in testimony before this subcommittee because the specially adapt housing there is little doubt that funding levels of a level to the individual disabled veterans to have their home adjusted to meet their needs is too low my bill does not address that particular issue rather gonzales president of the founders of homes for our troops pointed out in the hearing that servicemen and women with injuries would have killed them in previous wars are now living to see another day and or in need of much if not all of the guidance in the pamphlet is still applicable today he indicated i feel that it focuses too much on veterans who find themselves in wheelchairs with  or blindness the guide was last updated in one nine hundred seventy eight by comparison the current army corps of engineers housing design guide is dated nine hundred ninety four and that of the air force of two thousand and four the time has dignity of which they have sacrificed proposed a bill that the secretary of veterans affairs update the guide at least six years on a six year basis basically that does what the bill does allow guide rather than a definitive set of requirements should be just looked at as a guide to help out not one that as a definitive set of requirements after consulting with several of the preparing for this basis contractors actually derive the plans based on each veteran's home and in the family and i would hope that if the committee considers my bill in the future markup that such language is made clear opportunity and benefits act of two thousand and seven jobs act my colleagues i think this bill is an important step in helping our veterans gainful employment when retiring from the service when warriors return home from combat and uphill battle for many service members the transition from active duty to veteran status and returning to a full meaningful civilian life is daunting fraught with many challenging obstacles and bureaucratic barriers many times servicemen and women require job training for entirely new careers although statistics show that eventually veterans in general enjoy a favorable employment rate in the nation's job market many find it difficult to compete successfully in the labor market that's why for over a decade the federal government has provided job training benefits to veterans through the department of veterans affairs and the department of labor the mission statement for the department of labor climate and training service program quote provide veterans and transitioning service members with the resources and services to succeed in the twenty first century workforce by maximizing their employment opportunities protecting their employment rights and meeting labor market demands with qualified veterans today additionally the department of labor offers service members leaving the military with a service connected disability the disabled transition assistance program this includes a three day workshop plus additional hours of individual struction to help determine their job readiness an address a special needs however this is a democrat program offered to all transitioning disabled veterans across the nation this three day program is valuable support but it only provides general employment information and at no time addresses specific needs of the community in which the veteran lives and serves unfortunately this means that frequently there is a void of information on local labor market conditions that result in veterans using their benefits to train for jobs that don't exist in their own communities mr jeffrey ask you as director of the marion county veterans service center in my hometown of ocala florida he has said many veterans have used their federal job training benefits for information technology career training however  little demand for professionals and veterans often are advised to move to orlando where there are many more opportunities for them upon finally getting settled back into civilian life it is frustrating and unfortunate to say the least to be forced to prove one more time and move your family to an unknown city i'm concerned about and i believe my colleagues i have an solutions currently there is a maze of websites with confusing and sometimes out of date information on employment conditions by legislation would provide better information to veterans on their local job market needs the vege job direct the secretary of veterans affairs and the secretary of labor to conduct joint study on the great employment needs in various job markets around the united states and post the results on the website these results would then be updated to reflect the current and possible changing needs in the local job market with this tool veterans could plug in their zip code simply plug in their zip code and see a list of the occupations that are most within their commuting area and subsequently use a federal job training most effectively as a farmer labor already has the infrastructure in place for this kind of research so this is a practical low cost solution in fact the congressional budget office as unofficial score this proposal as having significant costs in significant costs for immeasurable benefit to our veterans furthermore the vege job act has brought bought a bipartisan support has been doors by many veterans organizations including the american legion veterans of foreign war the blind veterans of america b i look forward to working with you and the ranking member on passing this bill thank you mr stearns and thank you for taking time out of your schedule to join us today to speak to your important bill  and certainly the efforts that you make on the full committee and on other subcommittees to address employment needs and other needs to make the disruption in their lives during that transition as small as possible and certainly mr both i have been working on the subcommittee in testimony that we've taken that addressed some of the issues that you're trying to get at your bill and again we appreciate the introduction of it and the opportunity to hear from you directly today thank you i would now like to invite the second panel to the witness table joining us on our second panel witness our other colleagues and it includes the honorable john yarmuth robin hayes and the honorable artur davis as well as honorable patrick has been implemented over the last three years we are here today because there is tremendous level of success to a national scale we could provide hope for thousands of men and women who returned after years of serving their country in my hometown of kentucky richard waddell returned home ten percent disabled and suffering from post traumatic stress disorder honorably discharged after nine years service in the national guard army and marines had no job no support and a family of its ranks return to prison the success of this program is extraordinary success and the men and women who serve our country would not only be counterproductive but would also send the message that our veterans matter when our country thank you for the opportunity to be here the committee on issue that impacts our national guardsman today i'm proud to stand before the committee of a critical piece of legislation national guard employment protection act of two thousand happy to co sponsor this bill with jason altmire from pennsylvania this district is one of the highest percentages of guard and reservists serving in the country and from minnesota who is the highest ranking member of the guard serving in the united states congress right now it would be inconceivable madam chairwoman to think any single one of us that any employer in this country terminate someone because he or she served america it would be inconceivable to any of us in this room that any employer in this country would decline to promote someone to cause someone to suffer an adverse condition of employment because he or she serve this country  conceivable as it is to us as illegal as it is under current law it happens we give the committee some numbers to put this in perspective between october first one thousand nine hundred six in june thirtieth two thousand and five ten thousand sixty one complaints were filed with the department of labor by guards and reservists alleging that exactly what i just described happened to them of places business around this country about seventy percent of those individuals actually didn't even file a lawsuit weren't aware of their protections under the law of the law was so weak that it was not worth their while worth the while council we do have a federal statute mr hayes reference that it's called userra it's a good statute but in many ways it does not have to guard and reservists who file suit under this statute are doomed to a second class kind of litigation status they're limited substantially on the damages they can collect if a judge finds that they've been fired because of their status as a guard or reservist right now the judge does not have the authority to even put them back at work they can't get punitive damages as many individuals do to after being wrongfully discriminated against and they face a variety of other procedural hurdles well this bill thirty three ninety three seeks to give us the usera that our country deserves and our guardsmen and reservists deserve matlab specific provisions important laid this bill would expand the availability of the damages that are available without getting into too much technical lawyer talk today right now guard and reserve members often can't get compensatory damages only limited circumstances can they get those damages this bill would make the damages automatic a less an employer can show a good faith reliance on the law that would bring guardsmen and reservists in law all of the kinds of them plummet against around the country our bill would provide punitive damages and the worst and most agree just cases of discrimination that's what the law normally provides when african americans or women or other individuals believe that they've been discriminated against because of their status and their employer is an especially bad case of pender they can get unitive damages this bill would allow the same opportunity for guards and reservists this bill would hold state governments accountable it might amaze us that any entity funded by taxpayers would practice discrimination against our citizen soldiers but some do for various reasons right now they're exempt from you say we would hold them accountable we also would allow plaintiffs when they win these cases to get attorneys  that the lawyers in the room recognize as a practical matter it's tough to get good lawyers to bring employment discrimination cases they know they will have a chance to recover the cost of their labor because sometimes the damages awards are enough to compensate them and simply by saying this there have been six hundred thousand individuals who've been called up to serve this country since we were attacked on september eleventh one point in two thousand and five twenty eight percent of the soldiers in theater were members of the guard and reserve sometimes the numbers of even got higher than that these individuals who constitute the best citizen soldier force on god's earth deserve the strongest level of protection we can give them and they ought not be second class litigants and then in court and i thank the committee for us consideration thank you mr  thirty two ninety eight the twenty first century servicemembers protection act to thank the members of the committee staff for your continued great work i'd also like to ask him again to grant permission for letters for this bill written by the veterans of foreign wars soon after my election to congress a friend of mine captain john gross a jag attorney who does legal assistance work with one hundred first airborne division the screaming eagles contacted me to let me know about a growing problem that many of the police service members are currently facing explain to me that many of the soldiers he worked with have had their credit report staff during their deployments over issues concerning their contracts with telephone or internet service providers this jag attorney was able to put one of his own contracts on hold during his appointment or to do so he was forced to pay a costly fee looking into this further i also discovered that some financial institutions were slow or unwilling to reduce service members interest rates during their deployments even though these creditors are already required by law i learned that one service members and their families ran into problems with service providers and creditors they not only had to deal with the strain of the ploy but also face repeated harassment by collection agencies we owe the men and women of our armed forces better than this for decades the soldiers and sailors already back and a successor the service members civil relief act have provided crucial financial protection for today's troops the twenty first century servicemembers protection act expands the s t r a to cover service contracts such as cell phones utilities cable television or enter net access similar to provisions that currently exist for residential and automobile leases this legislation will allow troops with the plane with orders to more easily terminate or suspend their service contract with alfie or penalty currently creditors who fouts reduce interest rates by notification from a soldier with a point orders faced no specific penalty another prison version of my bill would add a pet only to those creditors who refused to reduce interest rates at or they are already required to do so under s t r a as a veteran of the united states army in the war in iraq i know how important it is that our troops be able to focus on accomplishing their mission and coming home safely without worrying about their credit rating or whether bill collectors are honestly harassing their families since this bill's introduction my staff and i have worked with the industries that will be affected by this legislation and doing so we have developed a compromise language i believe maintains the intent of the bill as introduced well leave alleviating the concerns of the companies that will be affected by the passage of this legislation notably we have adjusted the penalties remove imprisonment and made the size of any civil damages more reasonably tied to the size of a violation it is with great hope that the committee will adopt this revised language in the bill when the bill moves to markup we're eyes that there will still be a few adjustments that can be made to the language of the bill and my staff and i are eagle eager to work with the committee and do what it takes to get these protections and acted into law as soon as possible this is not a democratic or republican issue this is what this is about doing what is right for our troops that i would like to again thank you madame chairwoman and the ranking member as well as carson hall give me the opportunity to speak today and i'm happy to answer any questions they may have thank you very much you mr murphy for your military service to the country and for introducing this important bill i want to thank all three of you for taking the time to testify here we've appreciated your insights and we appreciate your hard work and dedication to our nation's  i know like to invite three to the witness table joining us on our third panel of witnesses today we have mr ronald chamar an assistant director of the economic commission to the american legion mr justin brown legislative associate of national legislative service for the veterans of foreign wars in the united states mr richard daley associate legislative director for the paralyzed veterans of america mr patrick campbell legislative director for the iraq afghanistan veterans of america and colonel robert norton deputy director of relations for the military officers association of america welcome to the subcommittee not sure when the next set of votes will be  called but we do have one panel after another panel after you and so in the interest of time and respect to all the palace today i'd like to ask you to limit your testimony to five minutes and i know that we have a lot of wrote the first draft the servicemen's readjustment act of one thousand nine hundred four changed the course of american history generation of heroes was able to join the middle class home ownership earn higher education and live the american dream or famously known as the g i bill it was hailed by many as the greatest piece of legislation ever as generations pass and memories of the g i bill benefits were so drastically reduced that many veterans declined or denied even the opportunity to participate in the program veterans today have the luxury of attending school without also holding a job and many colleges are completely out of reach simply due to financial barriers the time to change history is once again upon us no longer can we continue to call each piece of legislation in the one hundred tenth congress a g i bill a true g i bill in congress is such benefits as housing employment job counseling and training health care and education for veterans these are the true tools for a seamless transition from warrior back to citizen also accounts for the operational force of today's hundred thirty one thousand reserve forces there activated in support of the global war on terror on h r four hundred eighty three the american legion supports legislation this legislation would greatly assist those veterans are deployed to a combat  zone a little time to successfully transition from the military to the civilian sector it's unfair to expect service members to construct a fighting the battle overseas and they simultaneously attend to all the personal matters at home moreover veterans have a positive track record of following through with payments during the fourth quarter of two thousand and seven only two point eight three percent of homeowners using the v a s loan guarantee program were seriously delinquent this is much lower when compared to six percent of f h a mortgages and a whopping fourteen point four percent for the subprime mortgages and i'll discuss pending legislation to amend the v a loan guarantee program the american legion supports elimination of the v a home loan funding petition congress to appropriate funding to sustain the v a home loan program when the funding fees eliminated program no longer serves the intent of helping veterans afford a home eighty percent of all v a home loan participants must pay the current funding in some aspects of funny if you make the v a home loan program less beneficial than the standard private loan this has had a negative effect on many veterans who choose not to participate in this highly beneficial program and loan or originations have been declining a long overdue remedy to the refinancing was needed in order to strengthen the loan guarantee program the law should be amended to your move the ten percent equity requirement are eligible for support of specially adapted housing but they're not taking advantage of it right now these veterans could request adoptive housing at any time studies required every six years update plans and specifications are not the proper solution rather update the publication have continuous oversight and cost updates of veterans congress and interested parties would better serve the community eight hundred pound gorilla in the room is the housing crisis affecting veterans the national alliance to end homeless reports that nine hundred thirty thousand veterans pay more than fifty percent of their income towards housing renting or owning a home and testify before your subcommittee economists lenders realtors and other experts painted a bleak outlook for the future and terms of veterans defaulting and for closing on their homes if a veteran loses his or her job has a financial emergency or some other factor leading to delinquency nearly one million veterans could lose could be close to losing their homes in conclusion american legion appreciate opportunity to present its views on programs that affect veterans service members and their families an anonymous author once wrote betterness someone who at one point their life what a blank check made payable to the united states of america for them out up to and including my life that is honor and there are way too many people in this country who no longer understand it we believe that the subcommittee does understand american legion thank you madam chairwoman and members of the subcommittee this concludes my testimony i'll be happy answer any questions you may have thank members of the subcommittee paralyzed veterans of america would like to thank you today for the opportunity to testify on various pending legislation we appreciate the subcommittees focus on such a broad range of issues in the interest of time i will limit comments to just a few of the bills while the rest of them are submitted for the record on h r five six six four specially adapted housing dva supports the intent of h r five six six four we have serious concerns with the language of the bill and it is as it is written the legislation specifically calls for the v a to regularly update specially adapted housing plans and specifications to the veterans by the v a the v a is not responsible for providing plans and specifications to the veterans who are  for the specially adapted housing grant it provides assistance to the veterans through the application of ideas presented in the handbook for design specially adapted housing  twenty six thirteen we believe that the language of the bill should read the secretary of state the handbook for design at least once every six years the update should include considerations for new and unique disabilities to include vision impairment impairments specifically by limb amputation are some of these serious burn situations that we are having now in the war on terror the v a was fortunate to participate in the hearings held last year regarding application of specially adapted housing grant we are well aware of the unique challenges faced by many of the veterans with complex disabilities incurred while serving in the war on terror however it is important to understand that the basic accessibility concepts and the v a pamphlet twenty six thirteen are not outdated as implied during that hearing if there is a fault it is that the it seems to be basically centered around wheelchair accessibility but wheelchair accessibility is is basically the pamphlet centers around a lot of universal design concepts that are good for a lot of disabilities furthermore the accessibility recommended in the  suggested twenty six thirteen actually exceeds america's with disabilities act recommendations as well as fair housing accessibility guidelines with the that thought in mind supports the legislation if the nine enter the vocational rehabilitation program beginning with the year two thousand and eight we believe that the critical to the reintegration of severely disabled veterans into civilian life the primary mission of the r n a program is to veterans with service connected disability all the necessary services and assistance to achieve maximum independent in daily living and to maximize extent feasible to become employable and obtain and maintain suitable employment in fact p v a places such importance on vocational rehabilitation that last year we designed our own vocational rehabilitation program to further support that at the v a is currently doing it the concept of the program is to with the spinal cord injured disability vocational rehabilitation counseling soon in their rehabilitation process is beneficial for the veteran partnership employment whatever they would seem appropriate i know when we were researching the background on this bill there seemed to be a difference of opinion among the staff as to whether they were currently authorized introduced h r fifty sixty four is an approach that is manageable and affordable veterans will get between seventeen thousand and eighteen thousand per school year not counting other federal aid and v a will not be required to retool its system veterans education improvement act with a substantial increases in the level of education benefits and innovative lot of acacias a chapter thirty veterans across the country to see a considerable improvement in their education benefits we thank the chair woman and this committee for their hard work creating this bill and we look forward to working with you to make sure that this bill is the best bill it can be with as we have thirteen dollars we try to get to what recommendations we feel would be good additions to th reward veterans for going to challenging themselves the genius behind the original one thousand nine hundred four g i bill was that it challenge veterans to be all they could be by rewarding them rewarding those who challenge themselves and then tended better and more expensive schools however under this proposal a veteran under this proposed benefit a veteran attending a community college enroll merica will pocket be pocketing almost seven thousand dollars while other veterans will still need to take out loans or to work to see their education paid for if you look at my testimony on page two you'll see how the current benefit proposed in this program has broken out between four different schools south technical and your  state university arkansas my school california berkeley and notre dame went to the distinguished members went to now i'm the first a met when i was wrong when i originally read that i thought the five hundred dollars benefit the monthly stipend w going to be starting right away because it's not starting for two years you actually need to subtract forty five hundred dollars from the amount that i have given so we put a little adjustment if you attend southeast technical under the current bill for the next two years you only have getting two thousand three hundred fifty dollars more than you would need to go to south these technical if you were to go to university arkansas this bill would would like to see that five hundred dollars right away and just included in the original benefit there's no reason to make it a monthly stipend just make it part of the initial entry if you still want to wait two years we encourage you to not make it a monthly stipend but increase the benefit in two years because otherwise you're going to get in a situation that reserve asari they're not going to be able to get this benefit or worry that they're not going to be able to get this of it because the way it's structured right now says that those people taking under this chapter and because reservist take under chapter sixteen a seven different chapter it would exclude them from this bill also for many veterans  just laid out for many veterans attending schools and high cost urban areas this benefit will cover the will not cover the full cost of an education it will not cost cover any of the schools of the university of california campuses nor fourteen of the such challenge themselves by creating a situation credit to a set amount for fairly the average tuition costs at a public university this one sure every public university is within reach for our servicemen and women and that the benefit will challenge those to be the best they can be  lastly i have is concerned that this bill does not have a mechanism for keeping the benefit up with the rising cost of education by looking at the second chart of my testimony on page three you will see that in ten years we'll be in the same situation we are right now wh universities will be the only type of benefit of ailill the veterans who depend on their g i bill benefits to pay for school i have a recommends linking yearly increases of education benefits to be based on the rising cost of education as tracked by the department of education and not on opportunity to appear before you today on behalf of the military officers association of america listening to patrick i just want to honor for me personally to work with the distinguished young american veteran and a number of the other folks at this table patrick has been a tireless advocate for the g i bill representing the brave young men and women who have served in iraq and afghanistan and we really appreciate the work that he and his colleagues and i have done on the g i bill in a hearing before this subcommittee madam chairwoman in january i stated that my top two priorities for the g i bill this year are first to raise rates to cover at least the average cost of a public college education and second to authorize reservists to earn g i bill benefits for multiple tours of active duty we are very pleased to see that h r fifty four your bill addresses the first priority and then the upgrades in h fifty four are substantial we thank you madam chairwoman and ranking member bozeman for the bill and we support our second priority however permitting reservists to accrue benefits as they serve on active duty is not addressed in h r fifty six eighty four however i was very encouraged to hear you and chairman filner and the full committee ranking member talking about the need for what mr bill you called an equity fix in this regard and the fact that you share that sentiment that we need to do more for our reserve warriors and for that reason moa strongly supports as a first step passage of chairman filner h r forty eight eighty nine to integrate the operational reserve g i bill into title thirty eight when general petraeus completed his testimony before congress last week the president announced that the army rotations to iraq and afghanistan will be reduced to twelve months going forward that can only mean that there will be more deployments of guard and reserve units if the army is going to be able to sustain operations in both countries for the indefinite future it can only do that through increased deployments and call ups of our guard and reserve troops they are bearing a bigger share of the operational load and that will only increase in the future they should not be denied credit for all of their active duty service the principle on this issue is quite simple same service same battlefield same benefits mo also strongly supports legislation to improve financial protections for our troops under the service members civil relief act h r thirty two ninety eight would allow a service member who receives a permanent change of station or deployment order to terminate a cellphone or similar personal services contract without financial penalty chairman filner is h r forty eight eighty three would protect a returning service member for one year from a mortgage foreclosure or property seizure action urges the subcommittee to endorse both measures mo and our colleagues in the military coalition also strongly support h r thirty three ninety three to strengthen reemployment rights protections for our activated troops under the uniform services employment and reemployment rights act in addition we recommend the subcommittee adopt legislation to assign one federal agency the responsibility to track and report both formal and informal claims under the userra as recommended by the g a o i want to close madam chairwoman by offering a few remarks on what we see as an historic opportunity before this subcommittee and the congress i met the author of the g i bill named for him  late montgomery on a number of occasions early this decade mr montgomery spoke at the first press conference of the partnership for veterans education giving his endorsement of a new total force g i bill that would match benefits to the average cost of a public college education today there is a rising tide in both chambers to do the right thing on the g i bill this year and of course you and your fellow colleagues on the subcommittee we're talking about that at the beginning of this hearing there are different approaches to that goal but it is a goal that more and more lawmakers are recognizing and embracing in both the house and senate we at moa fervently hope that members of this subcommittee and the entire congress will be able to look back with enormous pride years from now on their work today on the g i bill as with the great world war two g i bill and the g i bill that mr montgomery's name and which helped the fragile all volunteer force experiment to succeed we believe this is a rare moment to make a new g i bill for a new century and a new force a better g i bill will be an engine for quality recruiting and a sound investment not only well first i'd like to say madam chairwoman that while inside baseball the issue of jurisdiction is a real one the issue of mandatory spending is a real one but the fact of the matter is  officials said before your subcommittee in january that he sees no objection from the department in moving the reserves bill the operational g i bill under chapter seven title over here to  to limit our options in making improvements and so i would hope that you would all keep us apprised as your work with other key members both on the house armed services and the  because we are always assisted enormously by your efforts those of us on this committee when we know that working alongside with us are making inroads with committees that have  jurisdiction as of today the jurisdiction that we wish we had today mr brown do you care to also address this question we have been working with members of the house armed services committee but not with the staff i know i've talked about this before we've been dealing directly with members talking about the need for having this we have not approached the staff directly reserve guard issues but we have not actively talk well let me just before moving on to some other questions you know a lot of so what we've been working on outside of the formal committee hearing process is also sort of inside baseball in keeping all of our strategic options open in getting this objective achieved and so while i understand the concern that the bill under consideration today that mr both and i introduced does not include some of the provisions that you would ultimately like to see enacted it doesn't include provisions i would ultimately like to see enacted and again mr both and i as you know i think have been pretty loud advocates for addressing the equity issue and working with our colleagues both here in the house and in the senate  however i think that one could make the argument that if we can get momentum behind this bill that will improve our position to make the case that we also have to address the equity issue for guard and reserve if we move this bill because then you have a greater gap if you don't do so so i just want to lay that so you understand sort of my thinking to try to keep all options on the table as we continue these these rather onerous negotiations with a lot of different players not only in our chamber but over in the senate mr campbell in your testimony i just want to make sure that i'm clear that we can get on the same page with regard to facts and where we know what source is everyone's using you state that the average cost of a public school education is seventeen thousand three thirty six a year and we had contacted us to part of education who informed us that for the oh seven zero eight school years tuitions fees were six thousand one hundred five room and board for tuitions these were six thousand one hundred five room and board seven thousand four hundred four for a total of thirteen thousand five eighty nine and that information comes from the college board annually updated trends in college pricing use the same one but the next page where it talks about the same exact document using but there is actually a miscellaneous expenses that needs talk about the total cost of education not just to wish and room and board the next page says that the total cost  then you have just misaligned expenses and so what i normally like to do when i reference the total cost of education i look at what people can apply for in terms of financial aid because the department of education authorizes a student up to a certain amount with the you know i'm interested in exploring this further with you and interested in what your fellow panelists would think about this but you know part of what we've tried to do on the subcommittee as well as make sure that veterans have a lot of no i definitely agree that you need to compare apples to apples and not four year universities like berkeley university arkansas are not for everyone if you look at my testimony in two thousand rand study and came out and they realized that ninety percent of veterans go to  college while thirty eight percent of all students usually a two year colleges so what we're talking about is most people end up going to two year colleges for their first two years and then try to transfer now that does not to six thousand dollars i'd say eighty percent of the people are never going to get anywhere near that six thousand dollars but for those people who are making decisions can i go to a tougher school can i go to a tougher school or versus can i go to a tougher school and exact timeframe while in service but i think inherent in your point there is assuming that one of the veterans has an economic background either before going into the service or while in service or other members of his or her family that have the wherewithal to make up the difference intuition veterans able to go to do you can able to go to wait for they should be able to go and not have to take out a full seventeen thousand dollar loan to cover the difference at the g i bill will pay for regardless of where they come from their economic status you're you're going further mr chairman you're saying that it needs to be you're going further than i think mr campbell was going in that you think it should be the full cost of tuition of the veterans choice right in similar to the world war two g i bill for veterans you go to harvard but i want to go to south dakota south dakota i understand what you're saying there although in my my opening statement i looked at the two thousand and seven i cited a recent report that compared the dollar amount in two thousand and seven dollars what the original g i bill was now i know we want to do some things on th committee that are directly in our jurisdiction but we also have the issue of the rising cost of tuition at private universities as well as public colleges and universities and we're trying to grapple with that issue to hear what you're saying and we have seen even a modification of senator webb bill as it relates to the average cost and my concern with that is then you're going to have the possibility of veterans maybe going to california schools and south dakota schools based on the overall amount of what benefit they can reach so you know there are unintended consequences with all of this you know i think i don't know if everyone do all the palace are you advocating that as a top priority that we cover the cost of full tuition of the college or university of the veterans  benchmarking the benefit so that it pays you year after year after year with with the cost of education that way in a sense you kind of overcome the debate because you're you have a single standard and you're able to match that standard year after year as you indicated as measured by the department of education's data i think that would be a great way for example for recruiters to basically market if you will the g i bill inflation adjustment some of the figures that you cite in your some of the testimony that was submitted assumes there would be no congressional intervention to make up for that in but your budget times obviously but we certainly appreciate the point you're making specially as it relates to giving young men and women who may be considering entering the service to give those recruiters some more concrete information within the law that it's always going to keep pace rather than wondering at what point it's a basic fallacy to equate the quality of education with the cost of education certainly the elite universities in this country offer a first rate education but there are certainly lots of state support institutions you know you could take any of the major universities university of michigan cal cal system are already as wonderful shows that provide a first rate education so i think making an argument based on the cost of an education is just inappropriate do each of your organizations at the at this time the v f w does support fifty six eighty four however it is not our favored bill in regards to education we believe that there does need to be and it needs to be based on a system that is relevant to the entirety of the country and the different geographic regions and the cotton different costs of education paralyzed veterans of america we would support some of the things in fifty six eighty four but the the reduced fee of fifty dollars a month for the for the easy one or two to put in that's still a lot of money and there was not a cost for the world war two veteran to go or the vietnam era veteran to go they didn't have to put in money to be part of the program so that's one thing that we we would oppose about the program of course we started i want to see the guard and reserve included in any program that's another issue they haven't taken a position on this as i testified we supported h r fifty six eighty four thank you now mr brink we haven't looked into the technical side of that at this point in time if i had to speak on behalf of organization i'd say we prefer the office of special coun but that's just me shooting off the consular we don't have a position on that but possibly the department of justice could take it over that's some of the talk among some of the veterans ok if if there was a bill floating around out there that the department of veterans affairs would essentially cause the v a to  administer have to administer the bill for the benefit program in a manner that would cause a significant increase in the backlog of claims processing for education benefits would you support that bill system would you still support such a bill the american legion would we would support the bill if it passes tomorrow it takes a year to get the benefit on line it's going to take a year from six months when i was going to get a year from a year from now has agreed to co sponsor the bill and so similar concerns that you are asking us about and raising apparently have been addressed to the chairman of the senate veterans affairs committee satisfaction so we think  r thirty to ninety eight could influence providers in the future to adopt stricter policies for a new applicant i've been waiting for someone to ask me this question and i mean i phone and i had the entire fourteen months i was on deployment about fifteen dollars a month so that i could keep my service on the promise that when i got home i would get you know i'd be able to turn on my service days before hurricane rita was about to hit i was with the louisiana national guard so getting a phone wasn't just about me being able to talk to my family was about we had to evacuate in a day and a half and my family didn't know if i was going to be ok and so you know what i couldn't understand is while i was fighting with them they kept coming up with these rules that my father was originally on the account and because the account was made on my father's account and not mine i was therefore denied any protections on the service members  relief so that even if i had wanted to cancel the contract right there they said oh you don't even have that right and i was like i've been a customer with you guys for three naff years i've been paying my phone and now your time you know it took seven months for me to get this resolved complaint and the love to my mouth was we do not have adequate protections for service members dealing with service contracts and saying a veteran needs to be able to know that they can go away keep their phone number and keep their service and not have to pay because if you cancel the contract you're fine but if you try to keep the contract there will there are no protections whatsoever at that point for you  specifically it's modeled after the on noise cell phone service members act that was passed a couple years ago that has been quite successful in illinois basically it allows you to spend services and that's basically it gives you that right right now you don't have that right so therefore the cell phone companies or the service providers can decide the circumstances in which that will happen and also deals directly with the making contracts on behalf of not just making contracts mr laurie here updates you so you can know how much time you may have to be doing other business either on cell phones or or being away from the committee hearing room for a time but i thank you for your patience and in light of that we may have some additional follow up questions that want to submit to you in writing but i appreciate your your testimony your service to the country to our nation's veterans and your willingness to come together to address thirteen different bills not all of which address all the same topics but we do want to move on a number of these bills in your insights are important to us in a more formal setting in addition to all of the work that has been undertaken with you with the committee staff on both sides of the aisle so i thank you for your testimony today and we'll just take a short recess and then we'll come back and and begin our fourth panel thank you all right thank you for indulging the congressional voting schedule sorry to keep you waiting but we do want to make use of the twenty minutes or so that we may have before i headed back for another vote to hear from our witnesses on the fourth panel today  participating we have the honorable charles to fill us assent secretary for veterans employment and training service in the u s department of labor mr thomas bush principal director of manpower and personnel for the u s department of defense dr curtis gilroy director of pension policy session policy office of the undersecretary of defense for personnel and readiness u s department of defense and mr keith pentago associate deputy undersecretary for policy and program management for the u s department of veteran thousand and seven for the two thousand and six two thousand and sixteen the national projections data that they produce are provided to the state workforce agencies in the state also collect labor market information themselves  that what we have here is an accessibility presentation issue and we would be very pleased to work with the committee on on how to work this out so we make this stuff absolutely available h r thirty three ninety three is the improvement to veterans employment rights act the bill would make a number of very very significant changes to the enforcement and the remedy for give the courts discretion to award twenty thousand dollars liquidated damages authorize the court to award punitive damages that are essentially unlimited states would also be required  to waive their sovereign immunity under the eleven men to the constitution we're concerned that we haven't had time a sufficient amount of time to study all the impact that the changes to this law would have and these are far reaching changes we believe there's a further issue we need to discuss these changes with our enforcement partners is not clear also the impact that these changes would have on the hiring of veterans please go into a little bit more detail during the question this proposal we just need to understand from the department of defense under what circumstances the exemptions would take place because the bill does not make that entirely clear but having said that there are certain types of airport security dut y border patrol duty absolutely make sense to be counted or not counted in the five year limit so i think the thing here and i think they would agree is that the exclusions from the five year limit have to be well defined in order to preserve the intent which is to preserve non career military service h r thirty four sixty seven a second chance for america's veterans which program most of these services could be provided through the act that the president signed earlier last week in fact what we have done is we've been working closely with the department of labor unit that's actually large part to the support of congress recognize banded role the reserve components are flying in national events and have been very generous with the pay an additional benefits are now available available to members of the national guard and reserve in their family some of the bills being considered by the committee today would continue that support for national guard and reserve members and i will focus my remarks on those bills that directly affect the guard and reserve h forty eight eighty nine the guard and reserves are fighting to act of two thousand and eight as currently drafted would reinstate the retention aspects of the reserve education assistance program yet would rec program and title thirty eight as i have previously testified that apartment does not support placing what would again become a military force management program under the administration of the department of veterans affairs therefore the department does not support h r forty eight eighty nine two bills would amend the servicemembers civil relief act h r thirty two eighty nine in h r forty eight eighty three although the department is preparing a formal letter for the committee on those bills i can report that the department generally supports both bills in fact h r forty eight eighty three which would extend the post service limitation on the sale foreclosure in seizure of property from ninety days to one year is a recommendation included in the final report from the commission on the national guard and reserves in appears to have broad support within the department regarding h r thirty two eighty nine the twenty first century servicemembers protection act that apartment views latter is likely to offer several recommendations regarding regarding the rights of service members to bring action in their own name and to strengthen the protections proposed in the bill two bills would amend the uniform services employment in re employment rights although there is under the purview of the department of labor offers the following comment h r thirty seven eighty nine would provide a limited exclusion of the five year usera limit for national guard members who perform certain federally funded duties while we think it may be appropriate to provide such an exclusion we need to work with our partners at the department of three ninety three the reserve access to justice act of two thousand and seven would allow courts to award punitive damages in cases of an employer who willfully fails to comply with  while this may be appropriate appropriate in some isolated cases we are concerned with the chilling effect this may have on all employers as i previously stated congress in particular this committee has been very supportive of the guard and reserve i would like to thank you for your unwavering support of the one point three million members of the national guard and reserve my remarks and i look forward to answering your question discuss how we might enhance the educational benefits of our service members and our veterans as before i will limit my remarks to the effects of any proposed legislative initiatives to the active duty force specifically i will limit my remarks to h r fifty six eighty four that you madam chair and ranking member bozeman have sponsored now there are some very very attractive features to this bill and there is much that the department of defense value and i personally congratulate both of you and your staff for carefully crafting a very unique piece of legislation i have six points to make regarding that legislation your bill increases the basic benefit from about eleven hundred dollars a month to fourteen fifty the average cost of a public four year institution and also the value of the so called tipping point about which we spoke in previous hearings at which the benefit may begin to have a negative effect on our attention the department supports this increase your bill also adds a five hundred dollars a month stipend for living expenses for full time students and some less for part time students although this is a little bit more generous than we would like we did we do support some level of increase and perhaps we can work with the committee on what that number might be your bill permits number three your bill permits members to use their g i bill benefits to pay off their student loans we best and veterans who apply for other financial aid would not be required to support the value or the monies received from the montgomery g i bill benefits as income we also like that your bill does not eliminate the twelve hundred member but there really isn't any need since it is not a deterrent or enrollment as we have seen in the past today and consistently ninety seven percent of new recruits already sign up for participation in the my gummy g i bill under the current situation but what your bill does is allow them to pay it over a two year period we also support you on this your bill gives veterans more time to use their benefit point number five fifteen years instead of ten years we support you on that although less generous than the senate bill twenty two house cousin fifty seven forty your bill addresses all of the significant issues as we see them it is much simpler and straightforward to implement since it is an amendment to the current n g i bill and title thirty eight compared to us twenty two is far less costly and does not add to the bureaucracy it does not create and not necessary strain on rec tension no one feature of educational benefits that is not included in your bill but is a priority as it turns out for this administration is transferability of benefits for all service members to spouses and children transferability we feel is important in a volunteer force where families also serve as you know half of our force is in fact cost of transferability of benefit well with regard with regard to your first question the services particularly the army has been asking for transfer of benefits for some  time and it has been on their top a list of items which they believe the soldiers in the field really wanted other services also feel strongly about it and the president announced in his state of the union of course this past january that it was very important to him as well we see that also be service as an important issue to be sure but we hear it from the field as the senior leaders go out and talk to troops in theater so that is a reason why it was included the president as it seems to be becoming more and more of an issue of concern to service members and i don't doubt that because i've talked to a number of  members back home you may have heard me say this previously a friend of mine i graduated high school with if he could transfer some of those benefits to his three daughters or even to his wife for her to get her graduate degree he would more than readily do  that i'm interested in pursuing that although i do know that there are some vs those that are concerned about moving this now over some of the other priorities and we've been working but if we could maintain an open dialogue as it relates to estimated cost of that as as it relates to transferring the whole benefit versus you know again some people don't like incremental ism but i prefer action or inaction and some results over none so i would just encourage you to maintain a dialogue as you work with secretary gates and others in each of the branches and i do actually have some follow up questions i want to pose in writing to both you and mr pett ago i know mr brink has some questions we're going to submit those in writing because you've been waiting a long time i would come back if you had the time to stay but i've been protesting your patience with how long this has taken with the interruption vote but i do have to scoot so thank you for your testimony your insights on these many bills that we're considering and one of the things that i wanted to ask and wish i had the time to is on this the issue of the guard and reserve equity you know i appreciate the d o d being supportive of the bill mr bozeman i have introduced but if that were to move and actually get signed into law we've actually exacerbated the gap as mr bill your pointed out and so you know i would like to get your thought given where the percentage is currently and where it might end up if we don't make some other changes to garner their benefits that will be pursuing that with you as well but thank you for your service to our nation's service members to our nation's veterans for working so closely with us and with our staff here in the committee and we'll look forward to seeing you again thank you