subcommittee on europe will come to water i want to first apologize to assistant secretary gordon for keeping you and also to all the members of the public and interested parties democracy at times can be less than convenient i do apologize with the assistant secretaries agreement or consent i'm going to begin and then we're going to take another ten minute break roughly to finish this round of votes and then we should have all the time that we need and i thank you very much i first want to welcome and thank assistant secretary of state for europe and eurasia phil gordon for testifying we have looked forward to this for several months now and we are thrilled that you are here i'm especially pleased that president obama and secretary clinton have chosen an assistant secretary with your extraordinary background and experience i'm highly confident that you will represent the united states in the highest capacity and will further america's national interests and strategic partnerships in europe and in eurasia today's hearing comes at a historic juncture for the united states and our european allies as we face a myriad of difficult issues including a global economic crisis accelerated global climate change a resurgent russia instability in afghanistan and pakistan and the possibility of a nuclear armed  europe and on its borders there are many challenges for american and european policymakers including resolving frozen conflicts rising nationalism and right wing extremism energy security and significant backsliding by a number of nations in the areas of political judicial and economic reforms the good news is according to recent polling data that european public opinion has embraced president obama's message of renewed american engagement and partnership the president's outreach to europe at the g twenty in london nato sixtieth anniversary summit and u s meetings in prague has laid the groundwork for deeper collaboration between the united states and our transatlantic allies unfortunately however greater european public support has not necessarily translated fully into policy successes that benefit the welfare and security of both sides of the atlantic that president obama and the new administration are going to be successful in addressing issues such as global nonproliferation middle east peace stability and security in iraq pakistan and afghanistan and iran's nuclear program then we will need a stronger commitment from our european and international partners given the far reaching foreign policy agenda of the obama administration we are eager to learn more about your efforts mr secretary and those of the administration to strengthen historic trans atlantic relations and to build stronger economic political and security links with our nato and the u s allies it is essential that the administration continue to work with willing partners in eastern europe in the  as those nations struggle with democratic reforms and push for greater engagement and inclusion into transatlantic institutions such as the e u and nato i want to applaud vice president biden for his statement during his recent trip to the balkans that the quote obama biden administration will sustain and reenergize the longstanding american commitment to a europe that is whole free and at peace and quot also want to highlight the extraordinary efforts of the president and secretary state for reaching out to our ally turkey and for their efforts to resolve the ongoing cyprus and nagorno karabakh conflict turkey is a key partner in afghanistan pakistan iraq in the middle east and president obama's vision of a model partnership must be further fleshed out the president april trip to turkey was historic was successful quite so and i implore implore the administration to continue to support us rationed as the president so strongly did armenian turkish reconciliation and work with congress to combat terrorism there is no greater challenge facing the united states and europe than our relations with russia i strongly support the administration's efforts to reach out to russia to hit the reset button and work with president medvedev and prime minister putin on critical issues such as the start treaty iran and north korea and it is also essential that we be realistic in pleo ride about the true intentions actions and interests of the crown secretary clinton stated during a town hall meeting recently quote europe is our essential partner and quote i couldn't agree with her more and i look forward to working very closely with you secretary gordon over the next couple of months and years to strengthen the transatlantic alliance if mr gallagher were here i would invite him at this time to make his opening remarks he may be coming after the other two votes so i will wait to do that and probably the best thing to do at this point i know we have a french delegation of members of the parliament that i would like to welcome are four members of the french parliament that i believe are sitting in the front row want to welcome you gentlemen and i apologize to you for the delay i'm sure the french parliament has no such delays  t we very welcome very much welcome your presence here mr assistant secretary there is about two and a half minutes left with this we could start but then i'd have to leave in the middle of your presentation so i'd rather not do that so i could just beg everyone's patience just for another little bit of time i think at this point we will just adjourn for a short period and then there'll be two more votes and then i will be back here and hopefully others as well thank you for your accommodation want to call the europe subcommittee back into session i want to again thank everyone for their patience at this time i'd like to introduce our witness for today's hearing dr philip gordon is currently serving as the assistant secretary of state for european and your asian affairs prior to this appointment from two thousand to two thousand and nine dr gordon was a senior fellow at the brookings institution in washington where he focused on a wide range of european and u foreign policy issues prior to joining brookings he served as director for european affairs at the n s c under president clinton where he played a key role in developing and coordinating nato policy in the run up to the alliance's fiftieth anniversary summit dr gordon has held numerous teaching and really research positions and he is a prolific writer on international relations and foreign policy issues and has been a frequent contributor to major publications such as the new york times washington post international herald tribune in the financial times dr gordon there are many many issues and so what naturally we ask people to limit their comments to five minutes but  given the wide length of topics please take the time that you need i'm hoping that other members will come in as the votes actually stop and i thank you so much for your time your presence and your patience please thank you mr chairman let me start by thanking you first for your words in your introductory statement and to you and all the members of the committee for giving me the opportunity to talk to you about the mom administration's policies and priorities in europe and our strategies to further the transatlantic relationship let me just begin by saying that president obama secretary clinton and i are all deeply committed to reinvigorating and deepening the traditional relationships of confidence and trust that we share with europe i am convinced that europe is eager to reciprocate and increase the breadth of our close relationship which is based on shared values and during commitment to democracy transparency accountability respect for human rights and the rule of law mr chairman i submitted a much more detailed statement for the record you'll see by at length in detail indeed what a comprehensive agenda we have what i'd like to do here if i might is just underscore three of our broad priorities in the categories of issues i think we'll deal with and then we can come back if that's alright with you to any of the details in the written statement there are three main categories for our priorities first is how we engage with europe on global challenges second is how we work towards a europe that is more whole free democratic and at peace and then finally how we work to have a renewed relationship with russia and i'll just offer a couple of words about each of those if i might on the question of engaging with europe on global challenges it is a reality that many of our european partners are among the most prosperous democratic and military capable countries in the world therefore our european allies working with our european allies both multilaterally and bilaterally will remain critical to our success in tackling the many serious global challenges that we base together united states cooperate with europe on literally all of the most important challenges  just naming a few restoring growth and confidence in the world financial system fighting poverty in pandemic disease supporting operations ongoing operations in afghanistan and iraq countering terrorism and nuclear proliferation promoting energy security combating climate change advancing peace in the middle east promoting human rights combating trafficking in persons the list is long and i could name others the point however is that there is not a single one of those issues on which we are not better off when we are working closely with our european friends and i would be happy during the hearing to talk about the ways in which we are working to enhance that cooperation to strengthen our own interests the second category of issue i would mention is how we promote a europe that is more democratic more whole more free and more peaceful and stable which is another important administration priority extending stability security and prosperity and democracy to all of europe and eurasia this is been an objective of all u s presidents since world war two both democratic and republican which is to say working with europe to realize this joint  that the openness of western institutions like the un nato to the countries of central and eastern europe has been simply put the most successful democrat democratization strategy in history and it has brought peace stability and prosperity to millions and the administration strongly believes that this process must continue in promoting such a europe and while working the united and the o s c we will strongly support the sovereignty and independence of all european states including those that emerged out of the former soviet union such as georgia ukraine and moldova with congress's continued support we will continue foreign assistance programs in europe and eurasia to nurture democratic and economic progress in the still fragile reformers and to promote their integration in euro atlantic institutions looking to the southeast i would like to say as you did in your opening statement mr chairman that we support turkey's aspirations for membership in the european union as turkey advances reforms that will make an even stronger partner in a better neighbor we are engaged energetically to support efforts by turkey and armenia to normalize relations and efforts by armenia and azerbaijan to settle the conflict in the box as you may know i just myself returned from a trip to the region just a few weeks after being confirmed i felt it was important to go to the region to signal our support for those countries and to do what we can to  promote the historic processes that are going on we also support the negotiations toward the settlement cyprus and vigorously promote diversification of european energy supplies we will continue to develop our relationship with the central europeans who are now core members of nato and e u and increasingly important global partners we will show renewed leadership in the balkans where more than a decade after my western interventions the forces of democracy openness in mid air and it is still struggle against backward looking at nationalism and  intolerance and let me add finally in this category that we will engage the countries of europe to help those still living survivors of the holocaust to achieve some belated justice the upcoming conference on the holocaust their assets in prague i know is a subject that the subcommittee be looking at on thursday this week and that will up for us the opportunity to do so let me finally mention the third broad category of how we're trying to work more successfully with europe which is our renewed relationship with russia the president made clear the obama administration is committed to reinvigorate our relations with russia and look forward to building a relationship based on respect and mutual cooperation when president  medvedev met in london in april they agreed to work together on a variety of issues including reducing strategic nuclear weapons and enhancing nuclear security and cooperating on issues such as counterterrorism afghanistan counter narcotics iran north korea the which we have revived and will also meet in core food and of course the summit where the presidents will meet in july we look forward to that to those discussions but i also end to the opportunity of strengthening relations with russia but i also want to make clear that at the same time that we reinvigorate our relations with russia we will not abandon our principles or ignore concerns about democracy and human rights while we look forward to a more cooperative partnership with russia we have no illusions that this will be easy or that we will not continue to have differences russia's decision yesterday at the un to block extension of the un observer mission in georgia is a clear example of such differences differences united states will not recognize the russian sphere of influence the united states will also continue to support the the sovereignty and territorial integrity of russia's neighbors in conclusion then mr chairman united states and europe share the important responsibility of leading the international effort to address our most pressing global challenges we also share core values which is a strong foundations we work together on our global agenda of advancing their core values as well as security prosperity and stability to the entire european continent and the world mr chairman and all of the members of the committee i'm our european partners have proven to be some of our more lasting and committed allies stretching back to the birth of our nation from our own battle for independence the barbary coast in the war wars of the cold war we have cooperated with european nations to make the challenges we face domestically and around the world and now as we are in the midst of a global crisis and region to face new challenges in afghanistan and pakistan never before have we need european cooperation combating global warming the dwindling of energy supplies and also improving and enhancing all of our partnerships in europe and neighboring countries particularly with russia as mr gordon mentioned and certainly with china and they merge and economies of india and mr chairman given the scope of this hearing then the within the breadth of our interactions with the whole of europe i doubt that we will have the time to delve into many of the challenges lay before us but i look forward to dealing in a few specific ones special interests and your thoughts and concerning how we can develop a more workable meaningful relationship with russia i think russia holds the key not just to europe but for so many things that we need to enhance peace and security around the globe global warming cooperation in terms of nuclear nonproliferation so many critical issues and i think that russia certainly plays a very important role in that as well as  something better than cap and trade and i hope that we get to because you know it seems to me that europe is finding out that there are some real challenges with cap and trade and we in america i think are about to find out that it's here is hard to pass something like that especially a massive tax increase in the midst of a recession the wall street trading scheme that would make a wall street traders blush i think after what we've been through and that punishes american manufacturing but there's something better there's an opportunity here to win that falls apart to pursue something different which is basically a revenue neutral tax  involves reducing taxes on payroll and then an equal amount imposing a tax on carbon dioxide so that's not a tax increase of any sort it's a simply attack swap revenue neutral so you move from taxing wages and income in industry in the payroll tax you take that tax away and you put a tax on carbon dioxide and what it does is it changes the economics of alternative technologies and also of importance to our friends in other countries would be border adjustable so that this bill we've got pending would could be removed the tax would be removed  export and imposed on imports it may be something that from what we hear from american european friends may actually be very similar to a vat in that way something that they have a great deal of experience with and we think that it's it's b t o compliant unlike the current cap and trade bill which as i understand it is a per se violation of to give away free allocations eighty five percent of  something that i think that we can work together with our european friends especially to to to bring about real change in our economies and address the challenge ahead of us so thank you mr chairman for the afternoon speak about that thank you s approach to russia i was wondering with maybe a bit of specificity if you could talk about the areas that are of potential contention between the united states and russia as well as the areas that are of potential strategic cooperation and what role will the administration seek with our european allies as we engage russia in that regard and with  azerbaijan in the context of the engagement between turkey and armenia there are obviously certain sensitivities with respect to azerbaijan i think the secretary very ably when the azerbaijan foreign minister visited washington talked about the strategic importance of azerbaijan i'd like to ask you what steps the administration is taking to bolster the american relationship with azerbaijan what steps are we taking to navigate the course of the engagement between turkey and armenia so that azerbaijan comes out a winner as well and very specifically you may be aware chairman both of those are very important topics and i appreciate the opportunity to address them let me begin with russia because it is indeed central to our european policy the president came into office in very early on made clear that we wanted to put the difficulties in recriminations we have recently had with russia behind us to the extent possible the previous years had seen a serious deterioration in our relationship with russia and the president's view was that this was unfortunate because we really do share a number of common interests and we are better off if we can work constructively with russia and you asked about some of the areas we're better off and we get russian cooperation on afghanistan iran nuclear  world economy climate change european security and so on so he proposed that we try and the word is may be overused now but try to reset the relationship with russia and see if we can change the tone in the substance of the relationship and that's what we're trying to do we had very constructive discussions with russian president medvedev in london in april and he looks forward to resuming those in july but there's a second part of the way the administration thin about the issue that i want to make equally clear that even as we seek to have a more constructive relationship with russia for all the reasons i just said we will not do that at the price of our principles  interests and friends and that is to say as the vice president made very clear early on at the munich security conference that there are certain principles that go along with this we don't recognize any privilege fear of influence for russia in europe democratic european countries have the right to join the alliances that they want to join without any third country having a veto and specifically we will not recognize the breakaway regions of south this idea and  abkhazia and i think just to make clear that just this week we demonstrated that we will not pay any price in order to have a more constructive relationship with russia over the issue of georgia we stood firmly behind our principles at the un during the discussions of the follow on mission follow on un mission in in in abkhazia part of georgia and we're not simply prepared to concede that principle to the russians in the name of a better relationship and i could give you other examples of how whether it's nato enlargement or others we will stand by our friends and and by our principles that said i think there still is an opportunity for a more constructive relationship with russia and and  you asked which areas are in the issue of cooperate possible cooperation and which possible confrontation the reality is both in each of the areas i gave we can go one way or another and what we're trying to do is make sure that that we cooperate on all of those rather than the opposite if i might address the question of azerbaijan which is also very important and as i said only a couple of weeks into my own tenure in office i decided to go to armenia and azerbaijan and georgia because it seemed to me that of all the many challenges we face in this vast region there are some serious opportunities there and you talked about what they what they are you have two parallel but separate tracks going on a turkey armenia normalization reconciliation process that we do think is quite potentially historic where the two countries have agreed on a framework for normalizing their relations that would include opening the border which has been closed for far too long which would establish diplomatic relations and would provide commissions in key areas including history and we encourage that process and we support it we have said that it is an independent process and believe that it should move forward regardless of whatever else is happening in europe or anywhere else because both countries would benefit that said it is nonetheless the case that at the same time negotiations on the go in a car box are going on between armenia and azerbaijan and that is part of the context in which the region moves forward and we're encouraging that process as well so  again our view is that these are separate tracks that are moving forward at different speeds but we are engaged vigorously on both because if both were to cde it really would be a historic opportunity for the region from which all three of those countries would benefit thank you very much direct talks are taking place under the un framework what is the u s government doing to encourage the turkish government to embrace this framework what final  solution you have indeed well described the administration's approach and the administration's aspired outcome present to the two sides on the island have been talking directly to each other since last september which is a good thing and they've been doing so under u n auspices and we have said from the start that we are prepared to be helpful as we can present it looks like the top of the direct talks  are going on regularly and the u n is being helpful and we will support that process if a more direct role would ultimately be useful we would be prepared to consider that and we have directly engage with both sides including the turkish government to make clear that that is our view as you describe it the outcome should be a by zone or by communal federation with a single sovereignty and we make that clear to our turkish counterparts consistently when we talk about the issue of cyprus settlement just as i described it regarding armenia as a by john in turkey a cyprus settlement would also be win win both sides would significantly benefit from a political settlement and we'll be actively engaged to achieve it getting back to russia on the visit by the president in july are you concerned at all the expectations may be too high meeting with russia and terms of what we can accomplish expectation should indeed be realistic we're not going to go from a very contentious relationship with russia where the united states and russia have had significant disagreements about about european security about missile defense about nato enlargement about other regional issues too on which we agree on all of those things so i appreciate the spirit of your question expectations should be kept in check particularly because as i said we're not prepared to pay any price for a successful summit  or a better relationship with russia we'll stand by our principles and our interests but what i do think there is there are opportunities for not just a successful summit but for concrete results from that successful summit and we're looking at areas in which we can do that we welcome the russian government's offer of providing transit for assistance including lethal assistance to afghanistan that again as an example of the thing that's in our common interest to stabilize afghanistan is in russia in russia's interest it's in our interest if they're prepared to help us with that that's a good thing and we welcome it we welcome russia's cooperation on the issue of containing nuclear proliferation to iran we are talking seriously about strategic nuclear arms reductions in a follow on to the start agreement and believe that that is also in our mutual interest and that we can move that ball forward at the summit in july we're talking about economic relations between the two countries and possibly russia's eventual b t o membership so while keeping expectations in check i would also want to underscore that that there are some real prospects for progress and we'll do all our all we can to achieve them thank you very much expressed by your predecessor dan fried actually testified in front of this committee that he was in communication with the georgian officials the night before the invasion  asked them to move cautiously and do not do not launch a military offensive they ignored him i don't know if i really want to stand by that friend states in terms of some sort of military engagement so while i appreciate standing on principles and i think we should do that worldwide by the way whether it's made east whether it's a whether it's it implicates china whether it implicates the principles that we're known for human rights due process we ought to consider those very very seriously whether it implicate those who are our friends as well as those with whom we have a contentious relationship get a comment sure i appreciate your your thoughts on that we have said that whatever the origins of the war in georgia last summer and whatever the actions of the georgian government they didn't justify the russian invasion of georgia dismember ship of georgia use of for degree of use of for  justify the subsequent violations of the ceasefire agreement that russia reached with the european union under the french presidency mr secretary with all due respect do you think that the georgians have any culpability or responsibility in terms of what occurred in august of last year but as i said the origins of the war can and have been and should be debated and in bed well what's your opinion about the argument that in a war i opinion about the origins of the war is that  president saakashvili may well have fallen into a trap that he shouldn't have the international community wasn't the united states and the international community was unsuccessful in persuading him not to fall into that trap so what you're suggesting is that is a trap that was intentionally led by i certainly think there were provocations that that is that george's use of force in going into skin valise certainly didn't occur in a vacuum just out of the blue and the desire to use force there were provocations on both sides there were certainly provocations coming from the south santee inside and let me be clear i would have strongly i would have done everything i could to avoid seeing the georgian that if they fall into a trap and locates american national security interests that we should be very wary of whom we chum around with in that particular region and it would appear listening to your testimony that at least in your opening statements that there appears to be no responsibility and no culpability on the part of the shack is usually regime a regime that has a what happened in terms of the closing of the media outlets protests peaceful protesters were assaulted by security forces what i suggest is a more balanced  view without just simply ignoring the responsibility of the shock of the government i appreciate that if i'll just if i might address both of those points on the first again i would say that  whatever the origins of the conflict last summer they didn't justify russia's disproportionate use of force nor the recognition of the two breakaway regions a recognition that has simply not been supported and the international community i think only nicaragua has joined russia in recognizing those two breakaway regions and the rest of the world has stood firmly behind the principle of territorial integrity which is the principle i said that the united states also stands firmly behind there's not a military solution to those breakaway regions that's clear but it is also inappropriate for russia unilaterally to have recognize them and also to fail to implement the cease fire agreements which require russia to bring its forces back to the positions that they were prior to the outbreak of conflict something that russia signed up to do and has not yet don nor has it allowed the full humanitarian assistance to go in on your second point about democracy in georgia i also went to georgia to pay close attention to that issue there have been massive protests throughout the country in recent months i think on the whole the georgian government has shown significant and appropriate restraint in dealing with those protests we have encouraged them to do that we welcome the fact that they of the republic of cyprus has been argued by approximately forty three thousand turkish troops can you comment on how the u s can use its close relationship with turkey to commence it to remove the disproportionate and necessary number of troops from cyprus thereby removing a major hurdle on its path of a session to the you and secondly i'm convinced that the government of turkey continues to prosecute journalists and highest appeals court his trials expected to resume this year for his remarks about the armenian genocide and light of turkey's continued prosecution of intellectuals who express themselves what steps w you outline with the turkish government to ensure greater freedom of press press and expression in turkey thank you thank you both of those questions on the first as described earlier we have a very clear cyprus type of cyprus settlement in mind that would be about as i know by communal federal aeration single sovereignty in any it's for the parties to decide exactly how that comes out in terms of  territory and refugee return and troops and the militarization but in any imaginable cyprus plan that i've seen and that the parties are discussing discussing it would also involve a significant reduction in in outside forces on the island including turkish forces so again the path to the outcome that you describe which is a reduction of of the turkish military presence in cyprus is a cyprus settlement and that's why we're so engaged and so keen to have one that would bring about the outcome that that you referred to and it would benefit both sides and in so many ways as for freedom of expression in turkey an article three zero on i can say the united states everywhere is a strong and the obama administration is a strong proponent of freedom of expression freedom of the media freedom of the press free societ turkey took some steps last year to revise article three zero on of its penal code that made it more difficult to have political prosecutions that was an important step forward it would do well to continue down that path and allow for more freedom of expression and we have a constant dialogue with the turkish government about these issues and we'll continue to make that view clear thank you thank you thank you mr mcmahon thank you mr chairman and thank you for convening this very important and interesting committee subcommittee meeting and thank you dr gordon for being with us today i just want to add my voice to those who are very concerned about the situation in cyprus and see it as as very important to the people of cyprus that it gets resolved but also for those of us who want to see turkey become a full partner in europe part of the e u certainly i see it as a major stumbling block because as long as there are all those troops in cyprus as long as there is not a recognition there that there should be one federation and not no reference to the republic of northern cyprus which we've heard too even sometimes from from from the american government i think will we be able to get that done so when i hear you say that you kind of have an attitude that we want to see that get this done but i don't quite hear that america sees that as the imperative that it needs to be so that we then can say with one voice yes turkey should go into the e u but he can't until this situation gets resolved so i guess my question is what is the administration doing to  and you're right that cyprus has to solve it itself but i'm sure i should hear from our government that this is a step for us then to say get turkey into  u absolutely and that let me say quite clearly this administration is strongly engaged towards just that goal the secretary has had this discussion with her counterpart the cypriot foreign minister with their turkish counterparts in the present of course of both traveled to turkey and they have made clear that we see real opportunities in cyprus this year with the parties talking directly to each other and that it's a strong united states interest to get a deal on cyprus done as soon as possible you mentioned it as an obstacle to turkey's accession to the and we agree with that a cyprus settlement would be a major step forward in opening up the door the door to  turkey that's that's a further reason that we that we support it that's why the greek government supports it it would be good for turkey good for cyprus and good for the e u so we will be very closely engaged and as i say the secretar personally very interested in this and it's been too long it shouldn't wait any longer this year would be a good time to have a cyprus settlement and i think you said it but it's it's clear i think that the administration and the secretary see this as a very as and as a very important issue and one that they will press in the immediate future absolutely and then assuming assume that were to happen and there would to be withdrawal resolved favorably what other impediments do you see and how can america help to remove those impediments that's an important question thank you i'll be trying it's a real challenge i think as a general proposition it's fair to say there is enlargement fatigue in the european union not just towards turkey by especially in the context of an economic crisis countries and populations are not terribly enthusiastic about bringing in new members that's unfortunate but i think it is it is a reality it's a particular challenge towards turkey which is a country some seventy million geographically further away a majority muslim country that  faces some skepticism among european populations but we continue to make the case that the incentive of european union membership for turkey has been an normal incentive towards the type of turkey that europe would like to have as a neighbor and ultimately as a member more more democratic turkey a freer turkey a more stable turkey and one that could contribute strategically economically culturally in so many ways to the european union that discussion we've had for years will continue to happen and as the president has said we know we're not members of the this is not up to us but as friends of europeans we are able to talk about these strategic issues in common interest and we'll continue to make the case as to why that would benefit europe i think thank you for your forthrightness in being with us today and  thank you this time i want to recognize the former chairman and now the ranking member of the subcommittee mr gallagher i think the former ranking member and then out the chairman of this committee for and i apologize to all of you for being a little tardy unfortunately one of the things we can't make more around here more time and i appreciate you giving me the opportunity as chairman and thank you for holding this oversight hearing today on the transatlantic relationship i'd also like to welcome dr gordon the recent appointed assistant secretary of state for europe in your asian affairs at the state department thank you for being here there are many areas i'd like to focus on regarding u s european relations however in the limited amount of time today i'd like to focus just on a couple areas first i'm very concerned about the situation in bosnia we are now fourteen years after the dayton accords instead of improvements in the political situation we're seeing little progress in creating a more unified multi ethnic society second in kosovo i see very little evidence that the serbian enclave in the north is willing to cede authority to the central government in fact every briefing i've received indicates that the services who are living in kosovo conduct their day to day lives as if they were being governed from belgrade instead of pristina i'd also like to hear dr gordon's analysis on the situation in both bosnia and kosovo and the strategy of our government in conjunction with the europeans to build a more stable future in these two countries if we do not make progress in bosnia or kosovo i believe there's a real danger of renewed violence in that entire region and addition i'd like to touch upon the situation in cyprus i know that there was some references i was walking in but having been a member to travel to cyprus it's one of those areas it's less travel in some of the other places in the world and i visited that country less than two years ago and strongly support negotiations between the greek cypriot and turkish cypriot leaders as they work to reach a settlement regarding the future of the island  i was pleased to see that in his written statement dr gordon reiterated the administration's support for the negotiations however there have been questions raised as to whether turkey is helping to facilitate  agreement or is actually straining mr talent's ability to reach common ground on specific issues with the greek cypriot counterpart i hope we can explore this in future during the question and answer period which  i i want to try to prepare myself to engage in those areas where i believe we can have a partnership with russia i think it's critical that we find areas of common interests that we can work together on and i want to get your comments on each one of them i believe a nuclear nonproliferation  area that we can work on and most paramount what that is the situation in iran and the situation in north korea now in many respects russia has as much to win or lose from this situation as we do so how can we engage in that what is it ministrations position on that what must we be prepared what kinds of questions do we need to get answers for in terms of russia and iran russia and north korea and how can we get russia to play a more definitive and positive role in helping us those are the two most critical areas of nuclear nonproliferation stop north korea and stop iran that's the first part of my question iran and north korea and and what and what degree can the two of us work together to disarm these two nations from their nuclear weapons capacity if i'm male answer that right now and maybe we'll have a nonproliferation cooperation with russia as it is a is a priority for this administration one of the reasons that we're trying to create a broader and more trusting general relationship with russia is so that we can work together on issues like the one you mentioned the the fact is and it's regrettable in many ways in recent years russia has appeared to view relations with us as a zero sum game if it's good for us they must be against it  and if it's good for them it won't be good for us and we see things differently and you give an example of how this should be good for both of us a nuclear armed north korea means potential for  destruction getting in the hands of people who could harm us and people could harm russia that's even more true of iran that iran is a lot closer to russia than it is to us and russia would be equally threatened by a nuclear armed iran and i think russia's leaders kno that so the question is how do we maximize cooperation as i said one is just to have a better overall relationship with russia so they don't see again for us as a loss for them but more specifically  we have been prepared to talk seriously with the russians about how they could be involved in containing a nuclear proliferation in iran let me ask you this but my time is coming i want to get my last part of this question and in an effort to get russia to deal more positively and more meaningfully with us on these two very critical issues of north korea and iran what role could the missile defense system possibilities that we have on the table in our plan of placing them in the check in the public play into this what is it ministrations thought on this is that an area of no touchability are we speaking how strong is think in our positions there and how do we play the missile defense shield situation that we've got one going into last in california to take care of north korean missiles this was there for iran's is that in play thank you for raising that important issue which comes up a lot on the missile defense plans let me say this the administration is reviewing the plans that existed to put intercept in poland and the radar in the czech republic and the president has said there is a ballistic missile threat there is a nuclear threat and a missile defense is will make us and our allies safer we'll deploy them but he wants to take a serious look at whether the system works whether it's cost effective and whether it's the best way to protect ourselves and our allies in terms and that review is ongoing and we'll see where it comes out in terms of the link with  there is one but but in that in the opposite direction i would say that is to say the president has said if we can prevent that the greater success we have been preventing iran from developing nuclear weapons and ballistic missiles the less there is a need for a missile defense system in europe it's just sort of a logical conclusion that the point of the missile defense system is to protect against an iranian nuclear and ballistic missile threat if that threat and the need for the only the member nations of nato and what they bring to the table but the cooperation hopefully with the european union to help on the civilian side on some of the respect to the building of the civilian part of the equation it must take place in that part of the world secondly we just got back from a nato trip where we went to sweden sweden is becoming president as you know in july and we were in finland then and norway oslo at the nato conference but we went to the other countries to discuss the north issue and i wondered what  actively encouraging the europeans to do more on the civilian side in afghanistan and pakistan just as we are at the nato summit our allies stepped forward with modest military contributions including some three thousand troops  to help get through the elections but there were not significant added military contributions which you know as well as i do are are very difficult to get from from europeans and therefore all the more we are encouraging them to do what they can the civilian side because we know that there's not a muslim military solution that's going to stand in pakistan and this is a special priority of special representative holbrooke who's working on the afghanistan pakistan issue  europeans are there's a pakistan pledging conference this week and we have been strongly encouraging our european allies to get more engaged there and do what they can because we have also reached the conclusion that you can't solve afghanistan unless you sell pakistan and that requires a lot of assistance and we have said to them we understand their constraints and what you can do in the military side but it's in our common interest that you do more on the civil side and we hope that they that they will  the high north you're right to draw attention to it it has been overlooked but it's something i think we are going to have to start paying more attention to nato as you know it's had a couple of recent conferences on the subject the new secretary general comes from a northern country with a long history of involvement and and we agree with you that we're going to have to pay attention to that emerging issue it's not just a security issue but it's an energy issue and because it's an energy issue it's a security brief in view of that but i would like to get back to that issue of kosovo and and bosnia and the strategy that you see that that  bosnia we're not satisfied with the situation in bosnia fourteen years after dayton i think an honest assessment would conclude that bosnia is not just not moving forward in the way that we would like but has actually taken some steps backward the vice president recently took a trip to bosnia because we wanted to show that we are engaged we're paying attention but he was very clear with his bosnian counterparts on all sides that they need to get beyond this ethnic nationalism that is dividing the country and bring serious risks to stability throughout the region we stand by the dayton agreement with the agreement of the parties it can be tweaked in the can make constitutional political progress but there needs to remain a single bosnia and we just won't recognize any attempts to break away from that single bosnia but at the same time there are entities that the constitution recognizes and those need to remain it is a serious challenge but we are trying to bolster the high representative that stems from the dayton peace accords i think that over time i talked about e u enlargement fatigue there was there was a bit of international bosnia fatigue as well people felt well the is over we don't have to pay much attention anymore and i think the high represented didn't get the political backing that he needed to keep bosnia on the right track and we're going to try to bolster that and stand firm behind the the dayton constitution highlighted the challenges in kosovo they're there and i wouldn't deny them for a minute but i would say you know if we pause a year i think yesterday after the adoption of the kosovo's constitution for a first year that country has done pretty well it's now been recognized by some sixty countries around the world including most of the europeans was voted in to i m f membership a couple of weeks ago the world bank recently voted as well it's gradually acquiring its place in the international community and we stand by and the vice president went there as well to underscore that you're right that in the north of the country ethnic serbs still seem reluctant to buy into  s independence but let me be clear that we cannot accept the idea of partition we think that's a route that if you started to travel down in the north of kosovo it would just never stop in the balkans so  we are doing everything that we can to support kosovo and hope that over time its citizens in the north will realize that their home is in kosovo and kosovo is going to be a place where people of any  parties in the cyprus dispute are tough negotiators and turkey while not a direct party as is included in that category they like everyone will have to make some compromises if there is going to be a settlement and as i've said before we have this discussion with them on a regular basis and i will continue to have it and to make clear that all sides are going to have to compromise for there to be a settlement but if there is a settlement all sides would benefit including in the in the case of turkey where a big obstacle to turkey's e u aspirations would be removed thank you doctor and thanks for sharing thank you m thank you very much chairman number of questions beginning with with russia earlier this year with some fanfare the administration talked about the reset button although i think we got the translation  enumerated what you thought the areas in which we could move forward on with this new approach what do you think we should be looking for in terms of the next six months or twelve months to determine russia and ferrety in terms of iranian nuclear issue and that would have to be near the top of the list to see russia cooperating with us on such a critical issue where they can play such a critical role is something that we'll be very much looking for without cooperation on that issue that's clearly going to be a significant blow to the cooperative relationship we'd like to see afghanistan pakistan is another place where russia can make a positive contribution and it's a priority for the administration strategic arms control is another because we have a real prospect to do something in our mutual interest are they going to be working with us constructively in that area that will be another test case but i think i could go on for some time of examples where there that will be indicators of whether they're also interested in a better relationship with us in your sense in the meetings that have taken place both with the president and secretary of state so far in in the visits to europe i know we're not calling it a war on terrorism anymore but  what to what degree do you think the europeans you talk about bosnia fatigue you talk about fatigue with regards to afghanistan that they continue to sense that the threat i mean the bombings in spain and in london is continuing to be a source of concern among european countries something that we all have to be very conscious of and cautious about losing sight of the degree of threat that's out there and when weeks and months go by without a terrorist attack it's easy for populations to lose sight of it and and i'm sure that applies to europe as well but you gave a you gave the best possible reasons why why that that shouldn't happen and we have a good dialogue with europeans on on terrorism i think we're on the same page what do you gauge   on nato responsibility and we talk about afghanistan and we look at the problems that concern the problems with poppy production and eradication that's an area that directly goes into europe what where do you think nato can play a greater role in that effort nato is gradually in the beginning afghanistan nato and all outside forces were highly reluctant to get involved in the drug issue if it's dangerous it's hard to have success because you end up often displacing it rather than eradicating it but over time i think we and our nato allies in afghanistan have realized that it's too central part of the challenge we face to ignore and gradually nato has gotten more aggressive in targeting the labs that make the drug you think it's gone beyond reluctance at this point no need to be honest there's still reluctant reluctance to let me move over we talked of going full circle here back to to russia and the sanctions were trying to deal with iran it's my understanding that france's oil price total hesitated regarding its investment in iran but the state owned china national petroleum corporation took total spot of about a four point seven billion dollar contract in addition to that we're told that royal dutch shell of dutch and british origins and rest of spain i've offered new proposals for initiative of iran's major gas production in the gulf and with the iranian government how do we make work if our allies are not on the same page have underscored exactly the reason why this is global challenge where we need all of our partners and not just some that's all we are all the time from oil companies in certain countries that if we pull out someone else will go in  and that's why it's not i would actually say that we in the europeans are pretty unified in terms of the financial investment consequences that iran should pay for failing to cooperate on the nuclear weapons issue but if we don't get china and russia to cooperate as military forces to try to protect those folks has been limited do you think we're going to get the kind of what we need in sudan from our european allies i can make a prediction on that i can only say it's a it's a priority  d i began this by talking about how we need europe to be a global partner and that's a that's a good area where they can show global responsibility alongside us thank you very much mr cha ramifications although i suspect in fact the far greater than any of us realize as we sit here now the rightfully points out what would seem to be some of the divisions not withstanding all of the ambitions there is a division when it comes at times to contractual relationships and in the context of the president very ably at least at this  the navigating between his commitment to a policy of engagement which many of us and i certainly do support very strongly and at the same time of course pointing out the need for a legitimate election and a review and standing up for people's voting rights and their human rights and the like there's almost complete unanimous support in europe for the president's engagement policy but what worries me is once we get beyond engagement should it not result in the type of iranian behavior that we would wish what kind of commitment do you foresee at this point in terms of the next step should they be required are our european allies in your view considering the next level of options that may hopefully not but may be required  in a position to seriously contemplate autonomous sanctions against iran outside of the un if the ability to develop that framework within the u n does not exist and what impact do you think the election in iran is having in europe and just totally aside from that if you could maybe just point out or make a comment with respect to the green and i understand that was made this monday between the european union and the united back to montana mo and the day the detainees if you wish to comment on that which i think is a very important development i'd like to give you the time to do that  thank you mr chairman those are challenging important questions i'll comment on both on iran i think we made enormous progress over the years in coming together towards a more unified u s and european view i think that  by taking the lead in some ways on the talks with iran about the nuclear program the three process that you mentioned europeans have developed a sense of responsibility on the issue and i think increasingly got on the same page of as us in making clear to the iranians that on one hand we are open to a better relationship and to bring iran in the international community on the other if they refuse to give up their nuclear weapons programs then there would be consequences and i think we have seen a significant cutting back not just in terms of the u n resolutions and u n sanctions but a significant cutting back in financing from european countries for iran and in terms of european investment in the iranian energy sector you asked the challenging question will they be prepared to take the next step if we don't have success in this and i can only say mr chairman that that is what we are working constantly and i think the answer is yes i think europeans understand that if we allow we collectively the international community allow iran to develop a nuclear weapon then whatever is left of the international nonproliferation regime is dead that other countries would follow suit and when they think it through they understand that proliferation throughout the middle east in the goal is not in their interest and they understand and i think they are following the leadership of the obama admin on this score to make clear to iran we're ready for talks we'll talk about anything we'll hold out the prospect of of bringing iran back in the international community but there has to be a serious price to pay i do think we in the europeans are significantly on the same page on that issue i said already that getting russia and china and india and others on board will be will be critical as well you're right to draw attention to the importance of the e u us agreement that you statement on guantanamo that was a prerequisite in many ways for getting the europeans to help with the closure of the prison on  guantanamo they've been calling for it for a long time the bomb administration said it would do so and clearly a path to being able to close the prison would be for europe to take some of the detainees countries would only do that when there was a framework among them  which is understandable so that was given open borders in europe it would be understandable that some countries would want to accept i wouldn't want their neighbors to accept detainees with open borders so that agreement is an important step but i think we also have to recognise the reality that the europeans have said that their willingness to accept detainees will be influenced in part by our own and they have made clear that it's hard for them to explain to their populations why they should take detainees if they even if they want to help with the closure of the base if the americans aren't prepared to do so as well seems like a fair position to let you guests from france here and i wish to acknowledge their presence the hearing this morning was on the issue of detainees doing a series of hearings which tended our gratitude to from the european union we understand the difficulty dealing with publics we all elected members of this body but we do c no longer really applying to the issues of the day and i think you would welcome that development if i might i'd also like to thank you for your comments about those countries have been helping with detainees and it  is i would also like to express my appreciation to those who have done so and simply to add that the italian prime minister berlusconi was here yesterday announced that italy would also take three friends had previously taken one and said it would consider others  we appreciate those efforts because this is a common endeavor so that we can work together to to close the prison thank you and i'm sure that that expression of gratitude coming from the white house is joined by all members of your take advantage of the gordons wisdom here i want to go back to as i made to rush a bit here what what is your understanding of russia and the closure of the base in man now how do you view that i mean as we getting mixed signals on what is the what is the real deal on russia's role in closing that very critical military base that supplies our troops in afghanistan with their supplies i mean can you explain their role and how that ministration views it and if the united states has some strategy for come dealing with that situation because if that base is close where do we go how do we feed our troops how do we get the supplies to them and again good questions i don't have any independent confirmable information about what went on with the back and forth over the over the manassas airbase we would have liked to continue to use it for the reasons that you say the government explained that it wanted to close it that did coincide with the russian foreign assistance package but nobody has ever stated a linkage between the two things and where we're left to deal with the reality the situation which is that the government denied access to the base it is useful but not absolutely indispensable our military has other means of of of getting what it needs to afghanistan but obviously we would have preferred to be able to continue to use the base why do you think they did that what was their point what point were they trying to make by putting pressure on the close at base well again i don't want to speculate about that because i just don't know and you know we don't even want to say explicitly that this is a russian decision the government told us we couldn't use the base anymore and we have to respect that ok now let me ask you about europe and the almost nearly virtual monopoly that russia now is beginning to have on energy supplying energy particularly gas into european countries and apparently there seems to be a split decision here and i'm wondering how the united states deals with that or do you agree that there are some countries in europe who have view a more tolerant role of dealing with russia of the their energy situation and then there are others who say this is bad stuff here particularly like let the waning estonia's some of the more closer ones in and what what really intrigues me about this is here is russia probably the largest natural gas reserves of any place else on the planet with a staggering weak economy that it seems the main if they seems to me that they tend to use their energy prowess as a political tool is that a fair assessment and how do we respond to that and what is the feeling in europe going forward i think it is a fair assessment and i think our response needs to be focused on the enhancing diversification of of energy supplies across europe it's not a healthy situation for countries to be dependent on other countries for energy because that risk making them politically dependent as well and you alluded to that and there is a correlation between countries political dependence and view sort of russia and their energy dependence this is of course particularly true for gas where you need pipelines and you can't diversify simply by having ships come in from somewhere else so we are very keen to promote energy diversification in europe i think the europeans have been sometimes slow in coming to the conclusion this is necessary the secretary appointed dick morningstar to be a special coordinator for an energy because this is such a priority for us in the clinton administration he was very successful in promoting energy diversification then and he's very much focused on helping do so now so that we're not in a position that you just described man just one quick question and in my last question i do want to get a clearer understanding i asked you about iran and north korea these are the russian we kind of dealt with iran but i didn't get your response to north korea in your assessment what is your assessment of russia's feeling that north korea presents a threat to them because a threat is a threat but it really doesn't really become a threat until it threatens you and so does russia see north korea's getting nuclear weapons threat to russia i think they do they voted along with us and other members went along i'm pleased to say that they did they didn't hesitate to cooperate with us on an issue where we have a common interest and that's a good example of the places that we can cooperate in our common interest great thank you dr appreciate it thank you  that hearing just on on one issue if i may the visa waiver program i believe last year we welcome seven new european countries into the visa waiver program which i think gained a good strength of of proper goodwill with those countries and we benefit mutually both sides of the atlantic understanding that it is not just the state department but also homeland security and others that play a very significant role in this process i just want to put in a special plug greece which has gone through an arduous process and we would serve greek american relations quite well if we can figure out a way to allow greece into this program quickly and in a broader sense my understanding is at the end of the month the waiver provision that is provided in the bill expires which would make it more difficult for tunji such as poland and bulgaria and roumania in croatia to ultimately take advantage of the ways of the visa waiver program and i'm wondering if the administration has any plans on asking for an extension of that waiver so that the expansion of the program might go forth and in a more successful fashion in the future i'm not sure of the answer to your second question i think that group of countries that you mentioned is not yet on the verge of meeting the criteria and that is very i would want to say on the first though the importance of getting greece in the program we share your view greece has gone through an arduous process and we appreciate that and it has made progress and i think we're getting close we now have the agreements necessary in place they still have to be ratified in greece an american review t m s to go out there but i think that we're coming near the end of this arduous process and we would very much welcome that it would be good for greece and greek american business ties and cultural ties and we will celebrate the day when greece is finished this process and can join hopefully we can celebrate now things that would be nice dr gordon thank you very much for your time your testimony i think is greatly appreciated by all the members and we very much look forward to months and years of working with you thank you very much