in deciding the withholding of removal case the correct standard is in barajas romero versus lynch where they held that withholding of removal only requires the persecution be based on a reason rather than the higher standard of a central reason in this on account of his religion or you were arguing that being persecuted on account of religious tattoos we have to separate arguments one of them would be the particular social group that was under an individuals that had religious tattoos that were  perceived to be gang related and then also the religious persecution because one wanted to which one do you want to start with we can start with the religious ritual learn that this person before you do that the house of which argument was made before the board  well were both of them made before the board i think so there was more concentration obviously on the particular social group the immigration judge kind of dismissed the religious persecution i wasn't the attorney for that case catholic identity and because he venerated the virgin mary and so he was being singled out by the game because of his religious tattoos he describes an incident in his individual hearing where one of the marketing members said fact that he was being singled out and targeted because of these religious tattoos five again right but but if you're going to if you're going to focus on religion and you've got to tell us this being persecuted because he's catholic now he may not be catholic but if you had a but if you had a tattoo of the of the virgin of guadalupe then somebody might perceive him to be catholic but is he being persecuted because he is catholic well in part yes we think that the and who is he being persecuted by both the gangs and the police the police whether persecuting him because of his religious tests are perceived to be gang related and that really has nothing to do with being catholic doesn't well we would argue judge that it does have nothing to do because he should be able to wear these tattoos openly in public without hiding them because it's central to his identity as a catholic he had mentioned that he got the tattoo because he was catholic because he revealed the virgin mary and therefore that with that aspect but if in living or killing them because they think that they are gang related they're not persecuting him because he is cattle part of the record actually indicates that that he was in fact persecuted by the government i'm not sure if i found that yeah he does say that he testified that he every time he was arrested by by the government officials was or will he was arrested on several occasions and he indicated that he actually went to jail he wasn't released until his grandparents came to release him and there was no because of his yes he said that that's the reason that he was lying  that he has a religious or i understand that their religious but if they're in it and if it's as he says they're an indication of gang affiliation then the police might be picking him up because they suspect him of being a gang member but that's not that's not persecuting him because he's ha position is that he's being persecuted because of these religious tattoos and therefore it's religious persecute because he can't openly wear these religious tattoos he has a high that he made he had some testimony about how he couldn't find work he had to go ask you first of all follow up question on page one one all seven lines five he said last time line three for the police to pay me several times question for what reasons because they picked me up thinking i was a gang member too evidence of gang affiliation that's what the gangs he says that's what the gangs have taken it for that's right we think that would be so that has nothing to do with being catholic well it has something to do with being catholic just because he's wearing religious tech to his right but if he's getting any tattoos because what he c that we know right he might just have you might just have tattoos having catholic tattoos doesn't mean that you're catholic but there was testimony about that they asked him what do these tattoos represent to you and it's because i'm catholic the right but that doesn't have but if there's no evidence council as you've admitted there is no evidence social distinctions and so immutability would have go would go to his identity as catholic his religious tattoos particularly would be that the boundaries of being religious such as not just regular tattoo a social a protected ground and three whether he established that it is more likely than not that he will be tortured upon his return to honduras under the convention against torture kat the answer to all three of those issues page one sixty six of the record he did mention that he has religious texts so it was part of the record before the agency and when the immigration judge the i j a referred to the tattoos he said he never made mention in this testimony of any problem that he experienced in honduras doing due to his religion catholicism he did not impress the court as a part of the just person or that he would hold himself out as a his hearing where the tech two zero located and what the tech tools were made of including tattoos that were not religious as well so the immigration judge in looking at the weather he had a clear probability of persecution on account of a protected ground said that catholicism was not one of the protected grounds here and they he also said that it was not that he did not show sufficiently that he said that the gang member felt was asking him whether the tattoos were a symbol of a rival gang but they were really the gang members were targeting the nexus here isn't the gang members were targeting this petition or because they wanted to recruit and there's a long line of cases census levels are tiago and rica's resists are just a really long line of book publishing and published case that say that recruitment is not sufficient to show that it's on account of a protected ground and here there's two protected grounds he did check off on his asylum application religion is one of the protected grounds and particular  was catholic because his tattoos showed a possibility that he would be catholic the catholic country and they didn't target him his catholicism they were doing their job they thought he was a gang member this testimony on page one twenty eight he was detained by the police and home during so they could see if he was a gang member quote not to be violent with me or her so their concern was that he was a gang member their concern not that he was catholic or that his tattoos showed the possibility or the perception that he was cool what evidence in the record is there to support the notion that religious tattoos are a sign of gang  affiliation there is really not enough evidence to compel a contrary conclusion i'm just asking what evidence there is that all he in his testimony he says that he had on his chest praying hands when he said he was approached by a gang member equipped with that or because he was tattooed not because they were religious tattoos yes it could have is that also is that it would also be consistent with the way that the police treated him that because he was tattooed that they suspect he might be gang affiliated without knowing which gang it might be yes your honor i mean and fact that yes that is we have two different gangs that he identified here the maras and then the m s t thirteen is that correct and and we don't have any evidence that that the that either for recruitment and in his own words because he was young he was male and he was poor so those are not had nothing to do with tattoos possibly the tattoos were you know a concern for the gang member who approached him they didn't want to they wanted to make sure he wasn't a member of a rival gang and the police wanted to make sure he wasn't a gang member at all he claimed he was not a gang member former gang member or in the record but having a tattoo of the virgin of guadalupe particularly as to his religious texts he did say what his tattoos arietta marijuana leaf he had the words maria honest anger he did present that to the immigration judge but he never really clearly made any connection and the board of the board expressed that the board said that he had not articulated a particular social group to the immigration judge and that's on page three the board went on to say that however even if the group were properly before us the applicant has not established that the group is cognize a ball and went on to say that it was not overbroad it lacked the requisite particularity to be a particular so before the board it does not matter but to judge mendoza's question it wasn't fully fleshed out before the immigration judge but the immigration judge did refer to the possibility that religion