evening everyone welcome tonight's city council meeting we are in regular session tonight and have an agenda that's in the back of the room if you'd like to grab a copy of it before we begin however we do a few preliminary items first of which is to call the rol our hats their wise and loving father i just lost my prayer wise a loving father thank you for your many an abundant blessings thank you for life itself for the measure of health we need to fill our callings for sustenance and for friendship thank you for the ability to be involved in this useful work thank you for the freedom to embrace you or the freedom to reject you thank you for loving us either way in the scriptures you said that citizens ought to obey the governing authorities since you have established those very authorities for peace and order and justice therefore please be with us assembled counsel tonight and guide us graciously grant us the wisdom to govern a sense of welfare for justice cooperation or honest disagreement and especially personal peace we pray for the agenda set before us tonight please all thank you brian there are copies of this evening's agenda as i mentioned before in the rear of the room they can be picked up on the rack or if you have some sort of mobile device tonight or you're watching this meeting from somewhere other than in council chambers you can go to the city  dot com go to the calendar page pull up tonight's meeting and you can not only see the agenda but also the all the background material that council has reviewed prior to this evening's meeting and that information is always out there you will note that there are a variety of items placed on the agenda that have an asterisk next to them and these are what we call our consent items we deem them to be routine or they've been previously discussed by counsel our intention tonight is to handle them all with one motion one vote collectively regardless of where they show up on the particular agenda this evening  you may not think however they're so routine in fact you might be here for that particular item tonight once we have a reading of what is on consent anyone from the audience may step forward to the podium and microphone remove an item from consent and will take it in its ordinary course or members of council may go ahead and remove any number of items from the consent of gender and i would you please read forrest what is presently on consent item eleven eight to accept and file executed oaths of office item fourteen b one to refer filed against the city to the city's insurance carrier and city attorney for consideration item fourteen one point one to adopt a resolution and declare a surplus properties identified as twenty nine west sixteenth street in the amount of eighteen thousand fifty five dollars and seventy five cents and forty four forty eight new in the amount of eight thousand six hundred forty two dollars and ninety six cents plus additional carrying costs incurred by the county and city is identified in the purchase agreements and to approve the sale of said properties to three sixty neighborhood organizations a michigan nonprofit corporation subject to approval as to form by the city attorney item fourteen five point three to approve  being for the projecting sign at fifty east eighth street and at the mayor and deputy city clerk be authorized to execute the agreement on behalf of the city item fourteen be five point five two approve the purchase of the city sourced a request management system at an upfront cost of two thousand dollars in an annual hosting maintenance fee of six thousand for the public safety police division to allow citizens to log request of public safety issues by email or phone item fourteen a five point six to declare a surplus two hundred eighty eight medal event chairs at window island gardens that their sale be authorized based on the purchase proposal received and at the funds from the sale be applied to the purchase of three hundred molded resin cheers from p s furniture in the total amount of nine thousand six hundred eighty four dollars all right that is presently on the consent agenda would anyone care to remove an item  yes white men yes yes clump earned yes mayor daley yes motion passes ok thank you takes us down to item ten which is adoption board an adoption of ordinances and we have a variety of proposed amendments to the  housing maintenance code and other sections of our ordinance code city it's a i'm sorry mr city manager and thank you mayor members of the city council this follows up on your first reading of these three ordinance amendments on the july eleventh meeting i will hasten to say that there has been an amendment associated with chapter twenty seven pertaining to recycling licensing so any motion tonight should include the fact that it's an amendment and meant that ordinance  be through after that pertain to due process the process notations there very similar to ordinances we have elsewhere in the code and there's really no substantial changes moving back to chapter fourteen pertaining to housing the neighborhood advisory committee was appointed by city council a little over a year ago their report was received by council in the last several months one of their charges was to look at our programs pertaining to housing and make bold new suggestions and those are being acted upon one of those suggestions has led to a review of some of the standards pertaining to repairs in our housing stock and the suggestion that we adopt international property maintenance code language pertaining to workman like repairs so that definition is in your  ordinance for your adoption tonight section fourteen dash four point six page seventeen of your electronic report the the other changes are somewhat housekeeping for example the definition of family is listed elsewhere and it's only ordinance in short form it's six unrelated individuals and chapter fourteen has been made to reference that definition in certain cases  the name of the department was updated and a number of other updates with that i want to go back to work on like for a second we have a series of pictures here that shows the community and council as we look seventeen the new definition for a workman like in that section would read as follows executed in a skilled manner e g generally plumb level square in line and damaged and without marred adjacent work so examples of this that the neighborhood advisory committee was concerned about are being shown on the screen here and as i said i want not go through all of them but enough so you can get the picture i think up pause there and answer any questions cindy minutes here who represents the department who can answer questions as well and an all right then this requires a public hearing in the public hearing is now open for comment on this council rules are pretty relatively simple always requires you step forward to the microphone and state your name and residential address for the record and you can have up to five minutes to here i'm going to be referring to the holland set know of thursday july twenty sixth two thousand and twelve page eighty three the headline article and the title of this article is changes to housing code would demand work when workman like repairs and i'd like to take about in the middle of this article and say the code changes are in line with the international property maintenance code that is prepared by the international code council massaged and said a group of municipal and business leaders primarily from the united states i'd like to point out two things here this is taken from some code f municipal and business leaders primarily from the united states not to point out two things one it's leaders and i don't think i think there's a lack of leadership here the second thing is from the united states and the united states kind of a control freak country and we like to say that we know better than everybody else what i'd like to point out is the title workman like repairs hopefully we're progressing to a stage where we watch for gender issues th like repairs i know plenty of women who are in the trades now i work construction for twenty seven years and they would be offended by this i think half the population would be offended by this title workman like repairs and if we put this stuff in to work ordinance our codes i don't think it would be proper for the modern society i think we have to work on it some ordinance a little bit to refine this particular point where it's work person like repairs i think it's important to have the population of the united states we're talking about gender issues and in this council with different groups of people coming up here we say we get it you know we just don't have to rewrite the laws because we're already protected et cetera et cetera i don't think we are because if nobody notices the other day  we still aren't updated i think some people maybe have to go to some gender sensitivity classes and understand what's what change really means in america besides what mr obama told us there's you know it's a simple thing how could  e this kind of a group or these leaders in the united states the second point i'd like to make is referring to a little bit further paragraph or can't enforce this is out of the article and it was by the news reporter  what can be enforced is different and renel an owner occupied homes massage them and said rental property are inspected so that workman like requirements can be enforced for the interior of the home as well some of the only ways the interior can be addressed on an owner occupied home is if a complaint comes from the police department for issues such as hoarding or from child protective services massaged and said interior rules would require pluck proper flooring and walls instead of plywood covering holes the point i'd like to make out of this is you know i'm going to repeat this again the police department can supposedly find a citizen for hoarding well what does it do to me if i grow a garden in the city which i do and i want to preserve some of my stuff for the winter to eat is it not hoarding if a homeless person goes past my house and says you have to pepsi's there and i have none are you and according to what it looks like inside tries to push on a council is that we should continue to allow our police to do this i don't agree with this this is this is really un american this is i would suggest before you vote yes on this article or on this proposal today that you read a book it's at the library it's about three years old it's called nothing to empty the envy you are nothing to envy by barbara d m i c k it's a kind of a nice short book it's about how north korea started out in the one nine hundred fifty s above south korea and what happened because the control freaks took over in north korea and not tell them what to do inside of their houses it's not a good thing council it's a very anti american thing you would you would vote for here if you didn't dress up some of these issues you should think about what you're doing here this is not american this is a school the castle doctrine the castle doctrine is one of our most important rules in this country that's what makes this different so each individual family can and can teaches kids the way he wants to send them to the  schools they want to attend what activities and sports they want to it's very important castle doctrine is very important you can have the police come into your house and tell your hording that's insane got about thirty seconds thank you thank you please think about a public not just ok thank you the public hearing is still open ok close the public hearing on this and is there any motion which i believe as recommended at least is to adopt the amended proposal for the amended mayor what i would recommend we have three chapters that we hear we probably ought to proceed with a motion to adopt the amendments under chapter fourteen then proceed to nineteen and then chapter twenty seven as  really had my preference you know i would address these where the largest concerns lie and that is you know somewhere within you know the the rental language if you will  outside of owner occupied because it seems to me at least in the brief discussion we had upstairs it is many times it is not foreseen nuisance issues and some of these these process so we're doing some inspection there and things are coming to light from a health safety and welfare perspective you know my preference would be to see language specific to those two areas i will say i  generally and i know there's a few others that lean pretty heavily toward you know the individual property owner and their rights and what goes along with owning a home and leave the  reasonable you know considering some of the things that we see on the screen i know we don't necessarily drive around the city looking for photos and trying to trying things out but i think you could probably drive through most any given neighborhood city right now and see some of our properties that are are starting to get toward that that state where the health and safety issues are representing themselves not just for the owners themselves but as we talked about  you know whether it be a post man or somebody they're there for a service aspect there's concerns there so you know i i might actually find myself supporting these things tonight which is pretty unusual  up on things in reference to the workman like reference in the ordinance proposed i have a little bit of experience with that term in my business and cabinet making  it's not unusual to run across any contracts and work agreements and so forth the basically it's used as a description of a lot of cases basic minimal level of quality standards there are some well in some cases it's debatable whether workman like it is really a high level of craftsmanship and and it's depending on who you talk to one craftsman will laugh at it and say that's terrible but at least to a consumer it's and assurance of a certain level of quality to be expected and i think that's the spirit in which it's being used in this instance to the expectation is that you know it may not be taj mahal but it's not going to be duct tape on a window you know so it isn't unusual in the real world you know the world to run into those kinds of descriptions so and as far as the term itself we may have to revisit that to make it gender correct some point but at least for the last fifty years or so it's it's been used  me like if you have a business you want to call it you want it to be an honest business you may not go through every little detail of how that business does its transactions or writes its documents or whatever but overall you want an honest business and this i think is a reference to an honest structure that it may not be that beautiful or whatever but if you step on that step it's going to hold you if you look out that window you'll be able to see and so it's just i'm not a craftsman but i would say that that's kind of how i see it and it seems like it's a reasonable way to not have to have tiny little ordinances for every possible thing that goes into building a house or structure so it makes a lot of sense and it is an international code and it's accepted by the other municipalities in the area so it seems very reasonable to me and i'm ok with workman like i have no problem with that and  bringing up a couple of points here at the workman like thing i when it was first introduced i actually e mailed ryan in here and i said well what's this and i looked it up and it goes back to i think seventeen thirty six and it's a term that comes only from england so it's been around it's generally historical way of doing it perhaps it could be changed but it seems like everybody sort of knows what that means and it is as david says maybe it needs to be updated and it's sort of not be opposed to that there always a debate between personal rights and the you know what's good for the common good and i think that's a structure and a poll and a push that we all need to look at and and i think that you know most of the time i'm going to be for the rights of the individual i think when you think of how and i was talking earlier is that we have an awful lot of homes that are sixty seventy eighty ninety one hundred years old and many of them are at the tipping point and they need some fixing up they need some reinforcement they need some really tender loving care and if we are serious about an energy policy to maintain these homes and make them in or g fish and they've got to be cosmetically and curb appeal ok as well they're they're not worthy of maintaining in the next five or ten years so i think we're at a really crucial point to really look at these seriously and to try to maintain them and keep their  value i think people who rent certainly entitled to a good solid home if they're going to be paying big dollars for rental and it would seem to me to the advantage of pretty much everyone to do work for that com that she was quoted on in the paper and i think there is a misimpression that are the city and specs every home or isn't they you know inspection of owner occupied property and i think it's worthwhile for us to mention that the only two areas that we engage in a regular routine it's inspection are rental dwellings vacant in abandoned structures these are typically been structures that have abandoned been abandoned through the foreclosure process so those are really the only two types of structures we get into on a regular scheduled basis under the ordinance owner occupied which i think many of the comments were alysa did tonight are only inspected  only involved when there is a complaint driven basis for the inspection in other words we do not have a ordinance code in the city that requires once every ten years twenty years or whatever for your home to be inspected by the city if it is owner occupied if it's rented it is subject to inspection and i think it is fair to say that since we have adopted our rental registration ordinance we have seen a significant improvement in the overall housing stock of this city as it relates to rental properties and they can and abandon has really been a really an economic consequence of the foreclosure process that we have gotten into where people have left homes banks have foreclosed on homes and left them abandoned so you know the the point tonight about the the tipping point is a valid one we continue to look at and that the you know how can we appropriately observing private property rights you know respect those private property rights but again  something that's for the health safety and welfare of not only the residents there but also the community in general and other comments like and generally i would go along with the more toward the personal property rights the only comment i made up stairs and i'm going to make it again is i want to caution us we're starting to walk a fine line i agree with what i see intent of what we're trying to do but in our definition of workman we're getting very very subjective i think they use the the analogy of what is art to one person is not an art to another person oh workmanship to one person is not and cindy has tried to define workmanship as best she can but we're walking that fine line and i'd hate to see it go on the other side of it i understand the intent i will be supporting this but let's be very very cautious as we move forward with that type of subjectivity anything else just two or three comments i guess one just a reiteration that this comes from the model code that has been adopted many other places throughout the country including township just north of the bridge to the ed the idea of workmanship as a standard has already been in place for a good number of years in holland township the second thing is that as to this issue of workman work person work womanlike we've changed our nomenclature on a variety of things workman's comp is now workers comp chairman is now chair person or the chair apparently has not yet made its way to work the workman like if you look in the dictionaries it remains workman like and work person like is really not at all  used at all in any sort of dictionary or any sort of trend translation so perhaps some day not yet please call  and you wish to take that one as well  now and then just the ok process consideration so looking at chapter nineteen that is there emotion but hoekstra supported by divorce the discussion on this particular chapter garbage comments on this one simply to license reference recycling collars the same as trash haulers and it with a little bit of difference the large ones over a hundred thousand tons are regulated by state the state so there's no five copper will drive in zealand and i have a question on organise twenty seven because i'm recycler here in the city and i just need a little more clarification if i could and i'm sorry that i am out of order but i don't mean to be you know where you're not out of or you're perfectly in order not a problem i need some clarification concerning section twenty seven through twenty four license required that no person in the first stanza here is no person shall engage in the business of collecting or disposing rubbish or recycling tiriel and in other words what does that mean does that mean that if i have a refrigerator in the back of my pickup truck and i want to make a profit off it by taking to patent office does that mean i have to get a license to do so or if a not for profit has an opportunity to have a paper gate or make a profit off the newspapers i up recyclables do we have to have a license for that is that what this ordinance is for just need some closure i will turn to the city attorney on this or else and he is think that she's given thought to the scope of the approaching the issue really is this recycling ends up in a driveway or front yard sandy yes good evening mr mayor council think you meant to seventy river avenue the impetus for implementing this ordinance change came from several issues where we had people collecting recycling materials for resale and collecting them either in their driveway or their garage or their trailer at their home and not meeting the same requirements that we have for a rubbish haul or even though the materials are very similar in the problems that we had with rubbish very similar we also have situations in some commercial areas where the recycle containers especially for paper and cardboard are not covered and and up blowing around papers in a parking lot behind a commercial business or outside of a commercial business and that really was the impetus for implementing these changes just to put these haulers all in the same level as the rubbish haulers and hold them to the same standards i think in response to the gentleman's question the question is when are you in business i mean that that is really you know going to be a factually based question you know if you're at a location if you do i have a website those are all the kinds of criteria that we would typically look at if you know you're holding yourself out as a person that will pick up  this type of material those who'd be all be business characteristics ok so as to the particular question about if it's for for example a nonprofit entity what would know if it's for a nonprofit entity and they are collecting and picking up materials for the purpose of recycling then yes they would have to have the license just the same as if they were coming to your house to pick up your rubbish and recycle iraq mission your garbage and to bring it to the landfill there's really no difference it's the same kind of issue the same kind of collection problem in the same kind of  materials falling out of a truck or to hold on one second ok well you know specific to the paper gators there's one literally across the parking lot from my office and just for clarity's those i don't believe i don't think those units are in essence a function of that business or track as much as something that is proprietary to another business on site at that location for pickup purposes and you know a great tent for the sake of recycling and whatnot so am i hearing you say that the paper gator for instance because it seems to be commercial in nature probably already under the auspices of a larger recycler are going to be i guess that and then specific to your question about the mission just a bit of clarity there in this would be more directed at are you guys now engaged in recycling or is the pick up and hauling if you will for a refrigerator more to do with the donation and then just the donation part of it right which i don't know how that would fit in here but that that's a question that i think is really worth investigating here's another a number of groups that do that and it seems a worthwhile exercise for donation purposes where a homeowner wants to do that rather than throw that under recycling because it seems to be recycle you know do we do they have to have the you know just a little more clarification do we have to have a license for that is it is it possible that if i mind that the express purpose of resale would not be recycled but your paper collections you do not if i understand correctly you do not go out and pick up papers you allow place you allow people to come and drop those off rec they donate t favor of tabling to our next regular scheduled meeting please say i i oppose the same the matter is tabled for a couple of weeks thank you and i'm sure they'll be if you would like to leave contact information with the city manager city clerk i'm sure we can have someone bring him some dialogue and communication and think about the issues raised great thank you very much all right that takes us then to communications from the and members of the audience may have to five minutes to address council and we will now clear the public for the communications period do recycling for the home rescue mission among other charities in the town i also had questions about the amendment if that would apply to local businesses local schools  all the people that do kind of do these collection drives i think what you're trying to do with the amendment is great i think you're right we shouldn't be having people kind of stockpile recycling in their driveway i just think that the way that the men is worded it gets really confusing for the people that are in the recycling industry now you know for example i work with pine creek elementary west out a public school district and they do recycling for the rescue mission but they're also for companies like terrorist like zero income for new and so you know what we have to you know regularly a school with a license i personally am a for profit business but do not make any money off of the recycling i'm basically just a collection point so what i need to have a license in order to do that the whole thing was just very kind of confusing and i think it doesn't necessarily apply to the bigger issue at hand which would be quote unquote stockpiling recycling in driveways so i guess it just you know if there's any assistance that myself that tree huggers you know who is a pretty large recycler in the area along with at the rescue mission we have a number of other people we could put you in touch with if there's a way that we could formulate this with you to maybe rework the wording a little bit if you wouldn't mind again giving contact info to someone  in the city of island we're here tonight to discuss a petition that was submitted the other day involving the closure of my son's car next door reliable sports i don't want to go too there was a group of people of all nationalities that lived across a large body of water from us that came here for the purpose of getting away from tyranny oppression to over taxation and here we are hundreds of years later well that group of people turned out to be what we call now the united states where we are today hundreds of years later the people of this country face more or less the same situation that those poor people did back in the day they're faced with overtaxation overregulation and to the point where the mole like many of the men meet here on other issues just this evening people are confused about what ordinances apply to them and what they're trying to do if ordinances are even necessary if if there isn't already something on the books that can adequately address the issue why create new ordinances we we're at a point where we're creating laws regulations and policies and rules and regulations to the point where people are just straight  confused you know nathan he has been interviewed by radio stations t v stations all across the country from san diego and los angeles to california to all of all throughout california cities new york florida he's had a skype interview and canada and they all say the same thing they all feel the same thing that they're like overregulation should we move to the city about eight months ago after doing some research and according to the paper that my wife wrote about it the city hall and at that time was raided number two as far as being the safest city in the country and and we assumed that it had a very great educational system you know since we've been here we we agree with that that that type of rating i think we holland is a very beautiful safe community to live with a very vibrant very well close knit  it's but in and in the schools are well equipped with computers all the gadgets of today's technology and bought an elementary middle school high school but it's not providing the children the opportunities that they really need you know on one hand we're providing all these electronic gadgets and we're telling them to get out there and be productive and you need to be productive early because  global economy now we need to every younger people out there doing more now than we did pass but now you are on the other hand we're creating ordinances and rules and policies that detract from that that that say the other the other the other way they say no you can't do that so it does not make common sense to promote to the students  middle school specially if that are really the they need to learn early excel early because it's going to be competitive and and then turn around and create ordinances are i in a way that deters them from pursuing what they're being taught that only by the schools but by the parents and and some cases elected officials will make these speeches if that's important  then after not hearing back from her we assume that it was safer and to set up a reliable ford and now operate his summer job as i thought sellers and bicycle  why but we're very problem and and i'm sure he's not the only one there's others out there but we need to adopt it and we need to shift our policies from being source as stifling as they a that are out by plane you know the attorney for the young people who get into the business if they want to pursue whether it's something i thought i was selling some crafts that he was very young at the time and he went on develop what is now considered amway he saw a local gentleman but he again was a young person with a vision a dream took one product and turn it into the empire that is today the ordinances that specifically the c three commercial district ordinance it really needs to be looked at by the city council to see if there's a way to reinterpret it in a way that people like me think and do the things that they want to do that are not a threat to the existing brick and mortar operations and nathan's faith that a recent poll was that's not the type of message i think is this is a good time to our young people and it's unfair to them and they're not and the nathan's case is not competing with the brick and mortar people the eight restaurants that this an upscale they're mostly put on the upscale restaurants are charging you try to get a long shot over there for less than eight or nine dollars the average person that works down here works in a shoe store or a candy store they don't make big bucks they don't they can't afford those lunches every day they need help turn it up and they have the right to they have the right to choose they shouldn't have to be stuck having to go to just those to the restaurant or take the time spend the gas to get back o thirty one and have one of the mcdonald's or other franchise available for a cheaper lunch nathan was in no way a threat to the existing business of russ trucks in this particular district he area that he's trying to get into again i think needs to go back to a study because it's not about just resigning that particular area it's about protecting the youth as much as he says this particular  there to protect the restaurant for the existing brick and mortar restaurants we need to develop regulations or ordinances that protect you and allow them the freedom that they have a right to pursue for their futures because nathan and others like them are our future leaders those are the people that are going to be in charge ten twenty years from now and you don't want to husband worked and it was enough i mean from now he's been working to support the family then had to have a change to where the the wife had to work to help support the family now it's to the point where  unfortunately in some situations children have to help to support and fortunately in our situation that wouldn't be the case for a long time that have children that want to have businesses in the area specifically this particular district like there was a young girl that does to get to go on a street next to a coffee shop i don't want to use the phrase that tape recorded but i don't want to draw on it unnecessary attention to her but she doesn't move every time you know she's under the ordinance the way i read it she needs a peddler's license and this girl doesn't know i don't know if she has one or not because i'm not out to cause her any harm i want to see her be as productive as his name but if she did is it does have a   the things that they want to pursue and which children and again and just to wrap it up i would just hope that the city council table this put it under study anyone else care to address coun pretty me again good evening glencross think two eighty four and a half air makes a ave i'd like to speak to the issue of the family i was just up here i'd like the city council sometime in the future to look at this part of the ordinance because it  affects the the vote that was taken just a little while ago the it couldn't it talks it speaks of monopolies america is supposed to be a country of free enterprise monopolies are supposed to be un american the way the ordinance is written is there's a monopoly downtown for the business owners down there and the suggestions have been made because they pay taxes for snow melt and stuff like that that they deserve these extra favors well monopolies  gang mentality type things just because they have suit and ties and they call themselves business people doesn't mean that they're not a gang because they are again and i'd like you to look at this that maybe to allow stuff like this to be part of the downtown as opposed to just the suit and tie gang over the business owners down there i'm asking you to do this as leaders mayor dykstra said that my last talk up here that work like was ok because work man was in the dictionary and that made it good and so we should follow we're supposed to be leaders here we're not supposed to be followers here we're supposed to be the changers the movers the shakers that's what holland is we're supposed to be the hot city we're supposed to be the you're supposed to be the leaders not the followers what's an addiction are you supposed to be ahead and push the progress that's why we go for person is supposed to woman or man i ask you to look at soreness in the future to try and allow for this you know in america in a democracy that's what we have here folks we have a republic again read that book if you like north korea or iran go ahead move there and see what see what you're um you voted on today because that's the direction you voted right thank you i'm not here to boss him around or to yell at your anything like that i just want to look at a guy that started out here in holland michigan at thirteen and i had my dad went down the gully off shore drive and gathered bittersweet and i sold it to everybody on the corner of ninth and or eighth street and college avenue the sports shop there in the middle of the winter my son grew up and he he he dug in the same valley and got definitions and sold them on the corner now back to me i came back to how i moved away when i was a kid and came back to home and i ran a business here for thirty two years so as motivations when i was thirteen and made a difference my son today has  business and i am concerned about america's a free enterprise society and i want the army for that to protect it and my son i stood by his side he's in another community but i stood there while he was already his inventories were and he was going to open his business and he told he was told that day you have to have a special permit you're going to sell fish hooks it's not except i was there when he was disappointed and on some of this stuff has got to change we're in tough times and the america's going to get back to its feet we've got to start looking at these layers of rules and regulations let's let's talk about free enterprise that i'm all about protecting downtown it's beautiful it's worth protecting what the talk tonight about the neighborhoods i'm a fireman in the city how it's changed my life thirty six years i've gone in house fires it's changed because of some of the ordinances about picking up the standards of the courts but there's layers and layers of things that need to be paged through and we've got to change some of this stuff we've got to get back to our feet we've got to get young men like this to dream and he he's our future and we can't stifle we've got to make room for them too and if it's about competition maybe the guy downtown is going to learn to step it up a little bit i mean my son's in a business he's talked about he worries about things in my philosophy is don't worry about the competition to be the competition and work hard so that you're out there and you're doing the best job and maybe you'll get the attention you'll be successful same thing here let's not be protecting everybody and putting other people out of business let's go for free enterprise and let's get this country back on its feet thank you right we will close the item twelve and let us make a couple of comments obviously this particular matter has drawn a certain amount of interest not just locally but beyond and let me just give a couple of statements and explanations perhaps and a bit of the history as to why the ordinance is the way it is right now which is not to say it will remain that way forever twenty plus years ago there was a mall that moved toward holland and decided to build in holland and this is that a period in time in this community not unlike many communities where when a mall came to town  typically meant the the the core of the downtown was hollowed out and there were a lot of businesses that shut down and moved out toward where the mall was etc etc and there was very sincere thread about that in fact the writing of stores didn't in fact move out in that direction there were a group of community leaders entrepreneurs even who decided that they were not willing to allow to happen to down town hall and what happened to most communities and so they got together and decided to do something about it and part of what they did was they well they did more than a few things but one of the things that they did was they decided to make the downtown a place that would be a destination for people to go as opposed to the area of last resort so one of the things they did is at the time they were parking meters all over downtown holland like you find in most every urban setting grand rapids detroit smaller cities parking meters paid parking in holland you don't find a single spot of paid parking and that's because the downtown property owners and businesses entrepreneurs decided that they would cover the cost they would pay annual  that for the public parking was free like it was at big box stores another thing they decided to do was to create a variety of interesting streetscapes hard scapes landscapes benches bike racks brick sidewalks planters flowers and they also decided to include a variety of activities and events that would draw people to to the downtown so christmas celebrations and hands decorations at christmas thursday night street performers series girlfriends weekend events groove walk concerts downtown all sorts of things that create an atmosphere for people to want to come to our downtown in the the last thing that they did is they decided that in a northern climate like michigan where we get one hundred inches of snow annually it would make some sense to try some revolutionary technology and run miles and miles of hot water tubing underneath the streets and sidewalks so that when it was snow everywhere else in michigan it was bone dry in downtown holland all of these things that they have done come at a cost to them come at a substantial cost to them and these costs are born them in addition to the regular property taxes that they pay and these additional costs ranged from the for the smallest of businesses in the hundreds of dollars especially those who don't have a site walked snow melted sidewalk in front of them into the thousands of dollars for other downtown businesses and you know what it was incredibly successful you will not find certainly in michigan and you will probably not find many places in the country a twelve month northern climate small city downtown anything like what you see here i would encourage anyone who is watching via television that they might want to consider being in holland at some time on thursday night over the next month i dare say you won't find much like it anywhere else in the country i would encourage folks to come to downtown holland in mid december when the snow is falling everywhere else and i would dare say you won't find anything like it in most places so it's been successful in fact it's been so successful that the inverse has happened in holland which has typically happened in most other places the downtown is booming and the area with the shopping mall a struggle now success breeds success and there's been some comments by a particular blogger who i think indicated she'd been to town once and said we have a lovely little downtown with eight restaurants the facts are really obnoxious little things and that number is triple that it's twenty five ish now and as we speak in the next few months there will be three additional restaurants that come to downtown and they come because of its success now given that these businesses these property owners pay additional costs above and beyond their ordinary tax bill they asked that the success of this space not be infringed upon by those who don't choose to share in the cost of maintaining the attractiveness of the space so as a result for many years we have had in this zoning district this downtown zoning district a restriction on the ability of food carts and food wagons here other commercial districts in holland there is no such restriction the only spot in downtown the downtown hollander is the only spot where such carts are not allowed presently and that is in large measure because of essentially the free rider effect in the concern about the creation and the the people who create and fund and maintain the space that is so attractive in essence having others come and take on that space because of its success without contributing to the costs of creating maintaining a handsome now that's how we're here today that's how we got here and obviously no one up here i don't think anyone in their right mind would suggest that nathan should be anything but encouraged he and i have spoken on multiple occasions for many months and i don't think there's any question that i've encouraged him everybody he's talked to has encouraged him and i think that  know free enterprise is a wonderful thing it's a great thing it's the backbone of this country it's a backbone of a free country anywhere but this these are the reasons why in this particular zone district at present these kinds of carts are not allowed and i would also say that nathan has not been the first to want to open a cart like this and every year it's a spot again because of it attractive nature people think this would be a great place to have a mobile food cart like this and they've been all told the same thing excellent idea just not in this space times change and it's entirely possible that we will see a changing attitude toward these kinds of carts you go back a few years and generally speaking most communities if not all really had a very dim view of mobile food carts even those communities where you have parking meters or you don't have substantial additional assessments to pay for activities you know it's even food network shows about food carts for going to six so i don't think it's entirely inconceivable that there will be some discussion about bits perhaps modification or perhaps changing the the rules on this or you know coming up with a system that might allow some sort of food vendors to come into place but the issue presently is one that is  long standing and is so because of the enhanced assessment nature of this particular area now in particular i don't wish to rehash all the particular details i would only say this nathan quite successfully operated his food cart at one of our city parks during tulip time and i think you sold a bunch of hotdogs i hope  did and it went off great since this whole event has erupted i have talked with nathan i followed up with an e mail and told him a couple of things one that we would be more than happy to find him assist him in finding a spot outside of this downtown zone district to have his cart and find him a good and successful spot to spot to do so i've also indicated that currently some of our highly attended city events things like the tuesday night holland american legion band concerts wednesday noon kids concerts in some of our city parks have not been presently served by food vendors and much like tulip time go ahead and go for it i've suggested i've told him if he wants the spot he can have it so obviously we want to encourage not only nathan but others like him who would choose to strike out on their own and one final thing and then i'll close this is a community that has long been known for its support of both private enterprise and the business community this is also a community that has long been known for having a steady stream of entrepreneurs some of what are now our largest and most successful companies much like the discussion earlier of amway starting out in a in a bath tub started out in garages and small warehouses and have since become the household names that we know places like herman miller and johnson controls formerly prince or gentex or other places like that hayworth so we are a very supportive people when it comes to free enterprise were very supportive people when it comes to entrepreneurism we just have relatively straightforward rules in particular related to this zoning district at this particular time not right we've been talking about the municipal stadium and the ownership structure for the stadium and improvements at the stadium over the course of a number of city council meetings so you're quite familiar with it hopefully those watching are at least  in order to ensure that football games for home and public and for hope college continue at this facility for many years to come you declared the property a surplus authorized us to seek bids for the sale we said a minimum bid price based on an appraisal that we had done for the site one bid was submitted it was submitted by hope college in the amount of nine hundred twenty four thousand three hundred fifty dollars which was a minimum bid that we requested since that time we have had this survey of the land completed it was not complete at the time we went out with the r f p and we had something like ten point four one acres noted in the r f p for sale after the survey was completed it's actually about ten point three three acres so we're suggesting that that price be adjusted to nine hundred fifty to one hundred fifty two thousand three hundred fifty dollars or reduction of two thousand there are a number of things that we need to do yet to make sure that we have a document completed for you a buy sell agreement with hope college completed we are not complete with those various items in order to present it to you this evening for approval so what we'd like to do is just present this as an update for you here's where we're at with the project we have received a bit we received less than a week ago so we still want to iron out those final details bring this to you for your consideration at the august fifteen city council meeting ok thank you we are getting out of the stadium business but yet maintaining a good deal for the public school system motion to accept this is information please  authority milledge language ballot renewal approval i can't believe it's been this long already but back in may two thousand and eight there was a vote on the creation of an airport authority and giving the authority of those member units with any authority the authorization to levy up to a tenth of a mil to support the authority well that milage expires this year december two thousand and twelve and the west michigan airport authority which is comprised of year period in their asking that this be placed on the november sixth two thousand and twelve ballot so this is a straight renewal of the terms are the same as what was approved by the voters in those three units back in may of two thousand and eight there aren't any changes in that regard this is set up a little different than some other authorities like it set up different than like max for example in terms of how the vote occurs and how the votes counted in the it with the airport authority each of the three units the member units are the ones that levy the millage not the authority youth already asked the three units to levy that milledge on their behalf and with the air port authority it set up the language is that the city of holland voters must approve it and also other governmental units that their total taxable value equals or exceeds that of the city of holland saw the voters in parked but the voters in the city of zealand would also have to approve it to continue the thory the way it has been operating for the last four and a half years so that's what's being proposed again it's the same as what we've had in the past this tenth of a mill just to give you a perspective in the city of holland looking at the average residential property in the city of holland would pay five dollars to support the airport authority i can tell you a couple primarily primary benefits of the airport authority over the years number one has been to have these area governmental units at the same table collaborating on this important economic development asset and the airport serves as an important part of the economic infrastructure in this community whether it be roads whether it be tax base whether it be other things in place and cent of that we have to encourage business in this global market today the airport certainly plays a large role in supporting economic development activities so those have been two of the primary benefits of the airport we are asking the city of zealand next week and par township next week as well to place this item to adopt a resolution that will place this item on the november sixth ballot in this evening the airport authority board is asking the same from you greg could you just briefly indicate why if the five year milledge expires in may why are we seeking renewal in november actually to good question actually expires december thirty one two thousand and twelve so rather than going out the logical discussion to begin with the board will just go out in may of two thousand and thirteen will be on that same schedule as you know it's five years from may two thousand and eight but actually the milage levy expires on december thirty one the two cities cost for that will be borne by the local governmental units the airport authority has assumed since it will be the only item on the ballot for couple of governmental units for sure in may of two thousand and thirteen they would have to pick up the entire cost of that so the cost to the taxpayers just to have the election on the airport authority milledge could be in the range of thirty five thousand to fifty thousand dollars the board did not think that that was a wise thing to do at that time they thought they'd go on the november two thousand and twelve for you but i'm not as wise as you yeah something like that how much of a wise guy or something well i guess when i went to school five years five years made i'm a how do we get to the point where we were putting ourselves five months here i don't understand it you know maybe i don't know and if you want to do that at the legal the valid question when it went out to the voters had an expiration date based upon a calendar year so even though the vote was take them in may the expiration date on it continued until december thirty one two thousand and twelve so what we're zealand through this fiscal year through december twelfth or excuse me december third one two thousand and twelve they will have collected five years of that tenth of a mill from its tax from those tax payers i think that the biggest reason is that the authority didn't want to use tax dollars to basically pay for an election you know i don't fully understand that i just i didn't get the concept if we were good through may but we ran out in december some of the good short change your five months well no one is we have to look at this as available levy dates cities levy in the summer townships levy and in the december tax bill so greg is absolutely correct the milage is approved by the voters created five years of a city leverage levy in the summer and the township levy in december so the vote that was taken and mischel a created five years of levy we would not have the additional five months doesn't get us anywhere because we don't levy between the time frame of january one through may that's ok now that makes more sense thank you ok good and leave it to andy all right and the other question is i mean study session sister city manager thank you the time has come in the work that the board of public works has done to have the community review information generated called a sustainable return on  report by h c r corporation pertaining to power generation options this report will be presented to the community at a special meeting the board of public works is called for wednesday august eighth the city council isn't voided invited to jointly participate in that meeting as well as members of the sustainability committee the wrap committee and other interested citizens so that will be at six o'clock wednesday august eighth  virtue of that meeting being scheduled it's recommended the city council hereby add this is a special joint study session with the board of public works at six p m at the hayworth center two twenty five college avenue further it is recommended that the city council tentatively plan on a priest study session and a possible regular but shortened study session at five pm however there are no agenda items yet for this study sessions so should that remain the case then with your permission we will cancel the given eighteen hours notice and you would simply have only the six o'clock meeting to attend that night if there are city session items council knows about now that haven't come to our attention wednesday august eighth six pm hayworth in conference center it'll be the unveiling of the sustainable return on investment report that we've been talking about for many many months public is invited of course will not be the only time this is discussed i'm convinced in the future will be the first of a multitude of discussions on it but certainly be sure to be there if you have an interest in this topic all in favor sorry please and i call that rol in fifteen communications from the city manager i have not mr mayor i was afraid you were going to say that because that means i have to get to my pages sixteen a b and c to the appointments first from the from me this evening i have an appointment to place before you have several a favor to the vacant position on the community pool authority expires july thirty one twenty sixteen also to re appointments the first being paul to a second term in the board of public works board expiring july thirty one twenty sixteen and also re appointment of maybe rivera to a second term in the human rights or relations commission expiring july thirty first of twenty fifteen and i would ask for your consideration of these items to prove these appointments and reappointed so moved by ho do enjoy and appreciate communications we receive from the public city of holland dot com is a great spot to find out how to get in contact with each and every one of us email addresses telephone numbers those sorts of things also on the city's website you can find an abundance of great information about what we're doing what we're looking at the materials we review in preparation for our various meetings as well as a lot of the major discussion items that will be upcoming relating to for example the community energy planning process as well as our power generation decisions so check us out at city of holland dot com and also you might want to look at the board of public works website one thing i didn't say as we were talking about the hot dog and mobile food vendor issue  is that it seems to me that it is not entirely unlikely that members of both the p s d the principal shopping board district principal shopping district board and perhaps at some point a plank commission or someone like that may end up looking at this issue i don't think anyone has specifically put them on any agenda but those would seem to me at least to be the two spots at which it would be most likely that this issue could be potentially looked at and have some discussion about so for the would folks and whoever else from the media stuck in the room you got yourself a scoop on that one i guess is their communication from members of council this evening of course of course it's a shameless plug time you get a whole lot more faith than i do but supposed to be eighty four and sunny perfect day for gathering out in the park allan park this year is kind of new and improved in years past the the twenty years prior to this this is the twenty first national night out that we've done we've done it on monday night because we've had a standing commitment at the park called the legion band well this year the twenty first year the committee get together with a legion band and said hey why don't we do this together national night out is tuesday night let's work it out so the new and improved national lead out aug seventh tuesday night alan parker from five to seven  and then stick around because the legion band and we got a taste of them last night excellent is going to be performing from seven thirty about an hour i guess and then there are some neighborhood parties that can go around from that point national night out is designed to heighten crime and drug prevention awareness generate support for and participate in local anti crime programs strengthen neighborhood spirit and police community partnerships and send a message to criminals letting them know that neighborhoods are organized and fighting back last year there was approximately fifteen thousand communities over the united states and canada the fifty states territories military bases with over thirty seven million people involved in this it would be fantastic last night there was a great turnout for  the american legion band typically the national night out draws a very big crowd let's not let that down and then afterwards go back to your own communities or communities well their neighborhoods or community go back to your own neighborhoods turn your porch light port all right time for me to stop talking turn your porch lights on get out to know your neighbors a little ice cream social in your neighborhood there that's what this is all about so i'd like to see everybody out there tuesday night collin park five to seven and stick around for the american legion band after that excellent thank you mike other communications from members of council tonight nancy another exciting thing going on right now is the america in bloom judges that are in town we met them last night out at allen park with the american legion band concert and as mike said that was just a norman rockwell evening it was just beautiful out there with the music and all different ages and types of people enjoying that the beautiful space that's called collin park and the the water out there was just awesome and they that was their first introduction their first taste of holland so that was awesome and today and tomorrow they will be touring the city checking us out for how we score in six different areas for the american bloom competition and we're hoping that we will score very well like last  year and sue are the names of the two judges i don't remember their last names at is from kansas and sue is from chicago so thank you very much so we're so glad that they are here and they seem to really enjoy being here so we're glad to have all american american blue and judges in town other communications from count so i think we may talk about the same thing or two go ahead though your packet a recommendation that an individual be appointed as one community member at large identities aided by counsel just hold on once i completely screwed that up i only did sixteen and i forgot b and c so storm this week because it just like last year with our first go around it holland in bloom we had a storm right before they arrived last year and of course this year we had a storm right before they arrived again we did have some limbs down and at this time keep in mind that the ability of people to bring downed branches and limbs and set them alongside the street for the city pick up city to pick up is limited to any of the trees in the public right of way so for lack of a better understanding trees between the sidewalk and the street if the limbs fell from their humane leave them for the city crews to pick up if they fell on private property at this particular point because of the limited amount of storm damage we are not issuing a broad scale ability to have the city pick up those limbs however keep in mind that there is the project pride coupons that can be received by members of our community of citizens residents of holland and if you have questions about that i might suggest you call the city manager's office at three five five thirteen ten or you can find out information about project pride in the city's website wood brings me also to the issue of burning and with the amount of rain in the cooler temperatures we've had i forgot to mention that as indicated on the city's website the burning band that had been in place for about a month has been lifted so fires bonfires kind of things in controlled containers are still are now allowed again but just make sure you look at the rules regarding those things as well but the burn ban has been lifted all right then that takes me back to the appointments of sixteen b and i don't know how i could have possibly missed this but we have a variety of appointments the holland youth advisory corps council  tight julie armstrong eleventh grader at holland high connor capers eleventh grade at helen christian tyler parsons eleventh grade at west ottawa and lindsay trim mary eleventh grade at west ottawa those terms expire june thirtieth two thousand and thirteen when we have  ziegler twelfth grader at west ottawa then we are there we go then we are happy to have the following students selected for appointments as holland youth advisory council students on the youth on boards programme to various boards and commissions youth advisory council students youth on boards programmes with their terms expiring of june thirtieth twenty thirteen connor boss of the airport authority a senior in holland hi matthew ziegler west michigan airport authority senior at west ottawa  a downtown development authority senior at holland high aerial henry tatum downtown development authority a junior at black river alyssa ariano international relations commission a senior black river alina cho i r c senior holland high and charlie colin for the makah towel area express transit authority a senior at west out of a high school i placed those items before you for your consideration and hopeful of approval supported by the mayor pro tem all in favor please say i oppose the same that passes and then finally eleven or sixteen c we have the community member appointment to the holland community energy steering plan committee which is comprised of the city manager board of public works general manager assistant city manager board of public works business services director and a community member and we have before us greg holcomb a community member a longstanding community member and very active community member who we would like to have placed as the community member on the steering committee and i would ask for your consideration of that please move i wite been supported by de boer is there discussion all in favor please say aye and he opposed thank you all right have two people that have gone off sort of when you will be as tender her resignation to the appeals board effective july thirty one t alan as hughes has just completed his second term on the appeals board effective july thirty one twenty twelve and we are requesting the point  alan as hughes to an open alternate position on the board term to expire july thirty one twenty fifteen he you have heard the motion by the mayor pro tem is their support for it or recorded by hoekstra is there any discussion on favre please say i post the same that passes any final communications from council or staff this evening nancy if anybody wants background information and the two judges and pictures of the container contests winters sort and supported by peter is there any discussion all in favor please say aye i oppose the same we stand adjourned good evening