good evening welcome to the christmas season here at the last meeting in december actually the last meeting in twenty seventeen for house and city council and we feel really grateful to see that all those that are in the audience not all of you are here in person some of you are watching on line but we are looking at a long group of very capable people in the back row there and maybe talking about them in a moment when you first want to start though with the roll call for the evening the border here thank you sir now will do a couple things that we have done for decades in this in these chambers we start with an opening prayer that will be led by our colleague council member hoekstra and after that we'll have the pledge of allegiance we would love it if you would like to stand with us for those two items already creator of all things we ask for your blessing enjoy things as we begin this in the season when we celebrate the things that reflect who you are love peace reconciliation community because always mindful of opportunities to embody what we sing about power us to bring peace on earth to all we ask you in your presence will be felt among families who will be missing members this holiday because it was your service we give thanks for those who sacrifice for well me man i pledge allegiance to the play of the united states of america and to the republic for which it stands one nation under god indivisible with liberty and justice for  i thank you dave we appreciate that now we're moving on to the consented genda and that is the list of items that we will all handle with one vote but perhaps you came to talk about one of the items on that consent agenda if that's the case at the end of the reading of the consent to gender we will open up the meeting and you may come forward give us your name and address and the item you'd like taken off consent and then we will handle it as it appears in accept i in for b to approve the minutes of the december six regular meeting december eleventh a special joint meeting in december thirteenth two thousand and seventeen special and study session item for c to accept and file executed also of office from various boards and commissions item twelve b two and seventeen a to accept in place and first reading the rezoning  request of the one nine hundred ninety one m forty cite from the pew d planned unit development district to the c two highway commercial district with final adoption schedule for the january third two thousand and eighteen council meeting item twelve c one and seventeen b to accept and place on first reading ordinance amendments to chapters two three four six seven eight thirteen fourteen sixteen seventeen twenty twenty one a twenty two twenty five twenty seven twenty nine thirty two thirty three thirty four and thirty six with final reading in adoption on january third two thousand and eighteen twelve c two and seventeen see to accept in place on first reading ordinance amendments to allow the sale of bottled water in prepackaged snacks the bleachers along eighth street and then royalty avenue with final adoption at the january third two thousand eight hundred council meeting item twelve the one point one to adopt the standard resolution to approve contract number seventeen dash five for eight for the sixty fourth street realignment project and to approve the updated budget for the project with funds provided by the st department street improvement funds item twelve easy one point two two approve a baseline environmental assessment submittal form in support of the sixty fourth street relocation project item twelve a four point one to accept the october two thousand and seventeen monthly financial reports as presented item twelve efore point three two a point extending the professional services contract with a j gallagher one additional year until june thirtieth two thousand and nineteen that the terms and services for the holland energy park be approved and described as contained in the a authorize the treasure to waive interest and penalties when taxes are paid for personal property formerly owned by transform fitness in the amount of two thousand and forty six dollars and seventy three cents item twelve six point two two proven agreement with kevin na vasya of west michigan snow works first or move all of the snow that the city halls away from various parking lots and stores at collin park and then rolled the farm thank you tim now perhaps one of those items you learned to handle you are going to speak to that item at the meeting tonight if that's the case please make your way to the podium give us your name and address and the item you would like removed from the consented genda seeing many move to council anything council would like to take off consent mike we're to bore yes motion passes eat zero thank you sir and now we are ready for the real event that all these people came for this evening in appreciation for a great accomplishment this year i hear it is the very first time in the history of holland public schools to have this honor that the virus city boys soccer team in the twenty seventeen state champions that is amazing i'm going to come to the podium could bring that massive charo feel about the size of the state of michigan you stand here and then all the team please wind up so we can get some pictures with everybody you know as a soccer team that intervened was that flight fifty seven during nine eleven it was a soccer team that stepped forward to save  save the united states save the buildings in washington d c and went against the terrorists and you guys look like the kind of person to help people we really are this is a great great group and we're really excited about your accomplishment this the sigmond says the city of holland michigan celebrates year dedication and outstanding performance on the soccer field year team record of nineteen five and to nineteen wins five losses and to tie demonstrates your willingness gill level and ability to work together as one in representing how in high school and the spirit of the city of holland we thank you for your dedication and also this team doesn't just win on the field they pursue things in their other time to help people i was told that you guys worked with christian and you supported nets in africa helping kids over there be able to play soccer right you also helped with  initiative to be a jersey's to indonesia they must be playing soccer and needed help to and then there was the initiative helping staff member david best in his health concerns and supporting him and his family that was really local and all of those initiatives show heart as well as an ability to play a game on the field and those kind of values are the kind that really make our community so so proud of you and to have a team like that representing us and winning at the state level is really a wonderful thing and we're so grateful to be able to have you come down tonight for this and we also have something for the gentleman who coaches you something good happen for him this year as well right yes citing my income and a forward here we have an award for you in recognition of your outstanding service to the community because you are the twenty seventeen division to sack or coach of the that is great so the city of holland michigan celebrates your dedication and outstanding performance with the howlin high school boys soccer team leading to your award of twenty seventeen division to soccer coach of the year your efforts helped create a safer place for the citizens of michigan to live work and play your hard work and commitment help to maximize livability in the city of holland we thank you for your service in leading all these men who will be future leaders and their leaders today in our community and we thank you so much for that thank you greg  yes and i wondered if you guys would be willing to just kind of walk around and you can shake hands with each of the council members just in a line they would love to be able to say congratulations personally thank you gentleman thank you really when people say they see red it's in an expression of anger but we see red we're really glad and we're really excited about your accomplishments and keep being leaders in the community we really are grateful for the example that you have ok now we are moving to our unfinished business we need a motion to remove to from the table the resolution for the supporting of the out of a county farm land preservation initiative so moved  talked about this a couple of times you have a request from what county to support the resolution for the county farm land preservation program we do have individuals here that would be happy to provide additional information to you if you'd like that and we also have some slides or two it's totally up to you since we've talked about it a couple of times but we're here we're ready if you i need that right what does the council want y david i know that we've talked about this a fair amount of presentations made to us but i think for the benefit of those watching it general public are a little bit better awareness of what we're talking about maybe prudent have a  good evening mayor city council members the resolution before you is to support the farmland preservation program witches model what county initiative whereby they work with different villages townships cities that are interested in preserving farmland and they help the farmers with program came to the planning commission and presented on what the program is an ass for the city of holland support in in the sense of that it is important to our community although where we are now actually looking to preserve our farm land we do have farm markets where we can get cheap or low or i should say less expensive fresh fruit foods fruits and vegetables specially and provide them for our lower income residents as well as as really all  incomes having those farm lands so close to the city of holland allows us to be able to do that and so we're looking for a resolution to just support the program again it would not be to preserve farmland in our city because we believe in the planning commission believes that that that that that land should really be used more to be developed because would be able to to preserve their farmland if they so desired to do so through their comprehensive plans and sue knight we do have linda fall said here as well as paul  director of ottawa county planning division thank you jen so what is the pleasure of council we need a motion to get this discussion rolling we did we got it yeah so yeah i mean isn't is there not a motion that you should have the motion on the table so the motion we had the motion to remove it from the table do we do we need a motion to approve it to run my recollection was we didn't have a motion and last time when it was tabled so we need a motion  and then we'll discuss it i would move to approve right indefinitely which i don't believe limits discussion we would have to get a second to that but if we if we seconded but still we can still discuss that before we call vote on that a statement since we have really no property within the city limits of this with the fact whatever agricultural area there is is not not going to be affected by this decision at  developed into additional residential lots which pretty much surround this feel already and i thought to myself how often has this scenario play i'm looking at been repeated around the country and i think the reason that this issue is an issue is because of the tension on the property owners particularly farmers not all of whom are multimillionaires and you know have thousands and thousands of acres there's a lot of smaller farmers who have inherited their farms have been passed on from one generation to another not all but certainly anyone who is in that position who is maybe looking at retirement or what to do with with their property the tension of additional value from a development point of view or perspective is very enticing and you can't really blame anyone for you know cash in it if you will to their best advantage on the home what they own unfortunately those detrimental part of that which  group think or for things that we consider the agricultural aspect of the viability of agricultural activity ongoing as a sustainable activity does affect us because we're all the stuff and eventually all because our grout one way or another is you know we process it turn it into other things that don't look like stuff that comes on the ground half the time but it is an important part of our life  so you know we can argue whether it's our responsibility our our purview to two of ourselves i don't know but the importance of that to all of us i think at least varies  the opportunity gives us the opportunity to make a statement about its value to us and you know the final analysis it is a matter of choice farmers are forced into this there are a lot of properties of this point that are involved  it but you know again you know i talk a lot about speaking to values and voicing what our values are and i think this is another one of those opportunities so i've got a vote in favor of it just on that basis thank you  any of their comments and discussion yes wayne this is a really tough area for me to think about obviously farmers and farm land farming is a way of life it's hard work in these days you need to be sophisticated you need to be knowledgeable the quality of the source of our food supply is certainly an important kind of thing in the city of holland i can remember th coyer farm maybe some of you remember those on west thirty second street with that was developed i remember the dirt farm which is now the west middle school used to pick strawberries there i think probably then roll t farm is the only farm that we really have in the city and we've been able to preserve that i think we have to be careful when we talk about preservation however when we think about the green house and we went with historical designation on that and sometimes when you do things like that it becomes difficult to change so if you're careful on that particular thing city of hama and what have we done with our own land we have taken the american legion golf course and we've been we just there was no real big herat let's not turn this into condominiums we basically supported that head car developing the industrial park to the south the energy part kind of thing we've used land industrial parks etc so we have talked to one side of the game and in another side of the game the still there so i think we have to be very careful of how we  we tell and dictate how other people should use their land it seems to me that the markets will be have a supply and demand quality on this and certainly we all love food in we love  products and farm products city of holland i don't think we really have a leg to stand on the world tells other people exactly how to lose that use their land because of the think we have really even touched the issue ourselves so that's i'll have to to do we have a ruling on yes you're absolutely right motion to postpone indefinitely allows debate to continue on whether to postpone and merits of the underlying  a motion to postpone that to a specific date on the other hand cuts off the day of the debate on the merits but only allows debate on whether to postpone elect make a motion to postpone indefinitely  question is is i understand this this is a voluntary thing for the for the landowner to do it is not anything mandatory it is what they are simply doing is saying is is there is a pool of money that they will approach and say we will transfer or give up the right to develop our farm into something else for a payment now rather than a potential so it is a purely voluntary type of activity on the farm it is not farmers basis landowners basis it's not any coercion on anybody's part for doing this it is a way of maintaining open space maintaining farmland throughout the county that is that is to be understood that it is a voluntary program on and it's farmers simply approaching being approaching the fund to do this so in that regards i mean i think it's worth taking a look at i mean farmers are interested in doing it as a way that they want to protect or serve their farm for the future they have a very strong feeling for their farmland and they look at this as a way of doing that what i understand is some of the background of this is is the reason for doing this is for holland as a support for the other communities in the ottawa county area that one of the main town cities and in ottawa county is supporting this program and that's what i understand is the reason for it is is simply as a as a show of support that this is a good program this is may not affect holland i thought why are we even talking about this it's kind of like sounds kind of you know like a nothing kind of issue but i grew up on a ranch and farming in wyoming not well here wyoming state and i started thing about during the week and my older brother in that up with our place and now is handing it down to his son who is not showing a lot of intent lot of value in that in that history of ours and probably is going to end up selling it ok and so i started thinking about the generational thing because i've made a note to myself here perpetuity covers a lot of generations it covers a lot of eventualities it covers a lot of generational land rights if my nephew decides to sell my brother was in some kind of agreement like this then i am basically my brother is basically set saying to his nephew sorry you don't have a right to do with what i was going to give you as you know also and that reaches down a long way that kind of bothers me about it the other thing that bothers me about it is kind of a philosophical thing  it kind of assumes that development is a bad thing you know like i'd i don't know specifically what golf course you're talking about or whatever but but it's a good example you know it development is not necessarily a bad thing sometimes development needs land for good reasons and again perpetuity is a long time to deny development and then the last thing is that i really felt awful thing is i'm not sure how much it would apply but still green but i have this thing in the back of my mind that hit me during the meeting last week was kind of a central planning kind of tw my brain like kind of like a second hand way of pushing development into a centralized place because if you deny the land to spread which is again assuming that's  bad then basically you're taking the philosophical position that it's better to centralize people into a more confined area and so that kind of buyer so i don't know if it has of any value but that's kind of i i just kind of have some concerns about it specialist for out of a county and i've been doing this for fifteen months and i really believe in what i do i live in the city hall and i've served on city council and i understand property rights and personal property rights and development i've been on the planning commission this program is voluntary it takes away no one's property rights if there's a death in the family and the farmer are to die the family can go back and get out of the contract if the farmer becomes disabled and is low no longer able to farm this property they can also get out of the contract we do see it's for ever for ever as a long time but we also know that you know look at what's happened across you know the world that we've got countries like venezuela that they're now importing their food and so i would hope that because we've put a lot of investment in the infrastructure for the farmers market and the city hall and has a terrific farmer's market that we would support our farmers and support the bigger picture of out of a county and what the county's vision is to support our ors to be the small businesses that they are and let them know that it's not just the tech companies who are concerned about or the marketing companies who are concerned about what we're concerned about that small farmer who works up on blair and us thirty one where you go to pick your blueberries that says a lot i know that it may not affect any properties within the city but philosophically you are making a statement the city of holland is the largest municipality in ottawa county pretty soon i think township will overtake you but right now you're you're in the lead so i think you a philosophical statement to make your by supporting this to say to farmers that you are small businesses and we support you and it is a choice that a farmer happens they're not forced into this it is a voluntary program and auto company will be here with services along with michigan farm bureau and the michigan michigan state university's extension service and other services such as acre ag tac that will help farmers to bring their new ideas forth into our community and their new inventions so your it's a philosophical decision that you have to make it's not a law that you're an acting it's a resolution so i hope that i can ask for your support in making this resolution a statement for the farmers of out of a county thank you thank you linda yes bright is it appropriate to ask a question to windows and she was when the presented to us originally or would it be better to address a question to you more work or pointing staff or gr to the blueberry farm that you mentioned on blair in thirty one what what jurisdiction is that is a township it is the address is holland for nine four two four i believe it's time time too so if we were to endorse participate in the program correct so it's not contingent on us being involved for against taking any action for their participation to occur correct ok that's thank you any other questions that i can answer for anyone the conversation about what is or responsibility and staying kind of within our lane of what's within our purview and for me it doesn't require support to be enact for those areas to participate because none of the land we're talking about is within the city it does require wherever those farms are at for their jurisdictional group to pass  and so for me it's you know what i think we're stepping outside of our bounds of supporting or not supporting by way of taking a vote and that so by pushing for supporting this indefinitely is there a strategy by which we just going to leave this hanging out there forever or is there do it with game here as or beyond i mean we can achieve right now the discussion and debate on whether this is appropriate or not  we'd be taking a stance that we don't support it so you hopefully you hope we do realize an opportunity to vote yes or no you know the question that you are correct yes so should we so the way i michigan is very significant in its agriculture fact i think and far as our economy goes in the state of michigan it's manufacturing agriculture tourism so agriculture is actually bigger and i do accompany is probably one of the most significant every cultural producing counties in michigan for sure i don't know that i think what what this is is an attempt to get at a governess structure we have in michigan that makes it very difficult to sustain any kind of land use sustainably for the long term with all the townships we have in all cities and all the eighty three counties times thirty six kind of ships twelve hundred townships all with their own voting authority to determine how their six mile by six mile box is going to be developed and planned  if we do this piecemeal with will preserve this farm and this farm and this farm and they're not contingent i think in the long term not in the next not in our lifetimes certainly not years not like  is you get to a point where you have to start thinking generationally mistake the michigan is a very special thing and i do agree that land use and how we've done it where one of the most sprawled out badly used land you states in a so if we're serious about this really does have no impact on the city how and but i think all the county is asking us to do is say help us tell the story show some support because we're trying to make sure that five and ten and twenty and fifty and a hundred years from now we have enough contiguous farmland figured out in the states so it still produces the food and the agricultural economy that we have here i think that's that's all they're asking us to do so i don't see it as a land use land rates thing i think it is i'm trying to help and again i would say holland has nothing to say about this can you also go to the you have to be just a minutes a pallet here can you go to other organizations like would it be great if the makah tell area coordinating cultural embrace this thing because that's a bigger geography at least at the local level what is your twenty twenty some states so far in michigan to have that have done this that that have created a fund where you can actually preserve farm when there's only twenty six counties excuse me in the state of michigan that done this shift few other townships and things like that so it seems like you're on the front end it's taken a long time to get this far to tell this story and just by the discussion we're having here it's a story i think that the state has to do a far better job of telling it it's not just farming it's not just concentrating instead people in central cities it's about smart land use for the our region our state our country in the world long term that's really what we're talking about fifty one hundred two hundred years out so think we're making this this way too difficult i think this is a very novel thing my only observation would be that i wish we could tell the story more quickly and more effectively about the global perspective of this and the non threatening way that it is at the local level it is voluntary maps don't seem to do it very well but it i you know i support this i think it's probably one of the smartest things we can do but again the resolution from the city how and what does it mean absolutely nothing except one more piece of the pie to say to a growing list of people who understand land use land rights fragmented planning fragmented government we have in michigan that's the story that to me is as much while woman through this whole thing and i applaud you for for it being out there and  quick here and i prefer jay what your just said there wasn't too many years ago however that the united states government paid farmers not to grow crops it was called idle acres is because we had too many crops and we had too much corn we had too much we had several cultures a really tricky kind of thing if you have a bumper crop you have fruit rotting you have you can't afford to pick it if you have a thin year it goes really up it's a very very tricky kind of thing and i don't begin to to understand it i don't have the qualifications there are people who are a lot smarter than i ever would be to decide about agriculture and i just think it's kind of silly for me to make a decision about what somebody should do with their farm not knowing all those details so i just think i'm not qualified to really make that decision don't think were asked to make their decision it's up to the farmer to decide to participate if a farmer doesn't want that's there's no reason to think that any mine would do it just in that you understand ok yes well so to be honest i kind of been back and forth all night i mean that i thought i had my decision made but so i've appreciated all of your comments giving me some different perspectives and ways wasted that what their positions were because because we don't have that that farmland it doesn't write the implications of our support don't really affect our properties i think and in conversations about regional approaches to housing i begin to wonder what the implications could be in preserving land that ultimately could be beneficial in conversations with housing development  so yeah i guess i say that still still not knowing what which side of the fence i'm on entirely and hopefully i'll have a better sense as we go through mike roll thank you very much the late bob just a moment for me you helped immensely i mean certain vacillating on this personal property rights has always been a big been a big advocate of that i do understand this is one hundred percent voluntary that's not the question what you just said however helped me in the fact that i understand what ryan said last week he said two weeks ago he seemed to begin tonight it's not the philosophical land use it's not this is the philosophical question here is what is how which you just said if we had more townships and we were not the leader because i'm afraid that because we don't have any skin in the game and we go ahead and pass this big brother's fist is coming down and the other townships better do it now i would rather see the leadership come from the people that have the skin in the game and linda has talked about some of the townships that are out there and i think bolton in some of the ones on the northern edge that have already taken the stance but the park townships and the holland townships and zealand townships and ones that are a little bit closer to the ones that are a little bit larger if they were already in there i would probably change my mind but the neutral stance seems to be the best so that we are not coming down here and heavy handed now can this be brought sometime in the future possibly a different type of question possibly but i would like to see actually some leadership from those that physically have some skin in the game here before i vote in the affirmative at this point so you wrote your advocating for neutrality in perpetuity well and so might that that's why for me bringing this motion because once that happens we don't need to they don't they don't need our support and it's already happened and so that's kind of for me what i'm saying those townships should be able to decide and the people elected to represent those townships should be able to decide and vote to endorse this  because they know their area better and i think i believe correct me if i'm wrong but the county commissioners supported it so i mean ottawa county has supported it so we have representation from the city that's on our what county commissioner i mean there's somebody that is representing portions of the city at that level and so that's where for me again it's just a question of what to me this is like the least controversial thing it's just what's our role because we get plenty of things that are more controversial or that can be more that can create a little bit more conversation around this table now where we've said you know what that's outside of our purview and so we're not going to bring it to this point this issue got to a spot where we're talking about it around this table and so that's where i'm saying i think we got a little bit in front of ourselves  the other comments so would you like to vote on brian's suggestion do we need that ron yes you need to vote  which means if we change our minds we could bring it up again yes just at the right everybody clear on that right thank you that passes neutral thank you moving on to public comment this is a time when you can come and address city council about whatever it is a sign your mind to make just approach the podium give us your name and address you would have five minutes to speak green light is go yellow light means one more minute and a red light means your five minutes are up and you when interested doesn't look it we're going to close public comment back and we'll move and to our planning commission no adaption of ordinances the proposed airport protection zone text amendments who's going to speak to that i can summarize this that you think you jenna can correct me for anything i might mistake perfect and so this is a second reading an ordinance that really just streams line streamlines the review process for site plans developments near the airport within it's thirty two hundred feet of the main runway and twenty five hundred feet of the future cross one runway so the way it has worked is that the airport and or the airport authority board makes a recommendation to the planning commission once a site plan is received it's referred to the airport authority for comment and recommendation to the planning commission depending on the timing of those meetings that can take an extended period of time and some of these  site plans so far they're relatively minor so it's more of a ministry of title the really basically administrative type reviews because when you're port authority receives them they look at height requirements they look at things that really are not subjective at all so what this does is it streamlines a process these reviews and approvals would be handled administratively rand rather than running them through the commission or the authority board so it should it much quicker i think for those looking to develop near the airport and i think eliminate some of the timing in the process it's really not necessary so there's a second reading it's a recommendation coming to you from the planning commission just an amplification break i'm sure just so very very minor correction which is that is it's recommending to go to to not go to the planning commission but that it would still go to the certainly if you have next ok perfect so as you can see in your monitor on the top right hand corner this property in question has is own c three which is the red  transportation center and just as you enter into where fields fair parks is that's the property in question you're welcome so this property fields fabrics is currently zone c three in the master planning process this past march it was determined by the city that it to be a central downtown area therefore keeping it with with c three which is central business district c two is highway commercial and like i said is just right on the other side of the tracks there feel fabrics would like to get a electronic sign if we can switch to great so this is a  representation of that where it says see what's new so they would like to modify from their traditional reader board manual reader board to this electronic sign they went to th appeals to request a variance to do that however they were denied because it did not meet the criteria of a variance they are now coming to they came to the planning commission an out here to city council  to get a rezoning of the property from the c three central business district to see to commercial highway district in orders for them to be able to to have this  electronics so the planning commission recommended not to approve it as as well as the downtown development authority because it is it was determined as determined as a gateway into the downtown area and want and we want and the planning commission would like to preserve the c three property the c three lands and  discussed in session to come back to the planning commission and see if that might be something that's possible in terms of the sign just keeping in mind though however that that it would be something that would unfortunately i don't have on we go up to yeah so as you can see from the picture in figure one we are just west of the river track i can tell you that raid across the street down a little bit is the priority how health building that is up to built up to the sidewalk line mark would you like to add anything about the that's all zone c three right now so immediately adjacent to the field fabric property you have the old long john silver's property that's being redeveloped into another restaurant use and then you have  of the annex parking lot for the the train people so that entire area is own c three right now on the west side of the railroad spur there so you know a number of years ago to the c two district i mean we really were looking at the railroad spur is going to be in the natural kind of dividing line in that area between c two and c three so areas east of of the railroad spur there are still zone see to that so that includes the hope imports as well as the things that cause x the hot dog place and then of a lighter color there waiting would be to see three yes just west of the tracks and everything yes so some of the blue there the late blue that is own the big wide open open space there it's in the blue it's probably zoned inductor education  what's being put in front of us is we should change the zoning because they want to put a sign up and it's like why can't we just figure how they can put the sign up without us having to change zoning because for the process piece i struggle with saying hey let's change how things are zoned based on what signs people are requesting versus we have things on the way we want them and there's a nuance of hey we want to selectric sign because i think to me it's like at electric sign great changing zoning for science is you know i think that's where then we start  that's bad that's in my opinion that becomes a bad process so it's nothing to do with the sign or the request because to me it's like like i said put a sign up but this process led them to having to come to us to say ok we've tried to do all this we can't for whatever reason we need to change the zone so what i'm asking is how the heck do we make it so we don't need to change a zone and they can just put up an electric sign because that just seems like a really simple solution to a pretty simple problem and i understand it's way more complex than that but when i put myself in their position it's like we've been here for a long time these are good people it's you know it's a cool biz where i got my  rocking in may again you know year three looking good but you know it's like they just want to put a sign up because you know what's terrible is going out there in january in the snow where they don't have snow melt down there and having to change this more key you know it's like the that's what's frustrating as we say it's really frustrating i understand why they're frustrated but with all that said i want to make sure that we're doing good process in how we we solve the problem for them so i asking for how do we do this in a way that we don't need to totally change what it's zoned and yet we can kind of get to the solution that we need which is that they can put a sign on i think mark has a suggestion to that effect that he started talking about upstairs sure probably the best way to go in about this would be i mean if you're inclined to mean you could you could accept the planning commission recommendation that  rezoning request but part of the better way to look at this is to is to ask the planning commission to look at a potential text amendment to the c three signage requirements there and then they could start  process of looking into potentially making a change and then we could look at it this kind of the far eastern reaches of the downtown area and we could probably come up with a rationale for maybe allowing signage of this type i mean if that's if that's something the planning your city council will like planning commission to look into we can certainly do that so but i think a text amendment is the is the better way to go about this process than using the big clu proposed rezoning and then if that is accomplished then then the planning department can go forward with looking at a text and then dealing with sides so we just assume that's going to be communicated we don't have to make a separate resolution to that effect you could but i think they have a message and would follow through on it right well so yes david well couple of things we could more formally make that request at the end of the physical layout resembles much more of your highway commercial situation than it does any sort of downtown commercial footprint so i gotta say i'm sorry that feels forever since had to go to such ends and i commend them for following the rules in doing this and i'm sorry that there a at this point to go frustration but in a way in these sort of front tear areas of you know where this road downtown areas buddy up against are fringe areas you  extent of non city properties there's got to be a way to to be a little bit more flexible having some of these things that are going to help their businesses but you know like i said i think i s you know we don't want a times where sort of scenario down to our advice you got a flashy electronic sign i do find it ironic that would roll walking up and down the still melted streets in those not electronic environments oh scott has a question or thought i think i've been that the last plane commission but the mayor and i are on the plane commission and we lack a little bit more clarity that we've to the planning commission what her desires are i think upstairs we have talked about east of lincoln avenue making sure that it was the proper location to look we're asking for this text amendment so that something additional one make sure we clarify in this resolution so they understand exactly what we're looking at and we need that for the better part of the communications or the board i'm i'm even more inclined to go further in saying the north side of a street just west of the tracks considering this specific location because remember what i s upstairs which you do in this area you've got the whole court or so if i can be that specific if we want to give an address and i'm sorry i don't have that off the top of my head but or put the property parcel number in there whatever you want to do so that it's specific to this site that would be an amendment to the amendment amended again to adopt the recommendation to deny this the rezoning request second part of that amendment is to go to back to planning commission for text amendment to allow the electronic sign in this specific parcel david has a question or statement ok at the risk of i recall a statement you made up stairs about being cautious about spies you know i am challenging you in the can i sway does this what we're suggesting being that specific is that a kid into a spot zoning the reason i ask that mike is because there is a couple of vacant properties at least one vacant property that i'm looking at that might serious saying this works for this property the way it's laid out and it's justifiable because of how far back the business is in you don't want other businesses to build to that pattern  ordinances and you want to give us a little speed dial on that one iran yes certainly we have a number of amendments for you that it will amend the the  island city code various chapters starting with chapter two and going through chapter thirty six with a few not included in there is listed in the agenda and basically it's all clean up things where references are made to changed and i see it as only highlighted in the one for chapter two and so as discussed upstairs i think the best practice here would be to have a motion to adopt but then have it have a motion do we need a voice vote on that yes ok all of us in favor say aye right same sign that carries us to january three then with fact thank you ron all right moving on to the designation of the freedom of information act coordinator and designee it did we approve the motion to extend up the recommendation i thought we improve the vote the postponing until january the third is the motion to adopt the centralized handling of information requests from the city the deputy city clerk was the person designated to be the foil cordon here in a resolution adopted in two thousand and fifteen at this point contemplate that in the future if there is a deputy city clerk with that person would be a dex of me of the clerk as well to handle for your requests make sense thank you any further discussion on that  opposing sign that carries all right thank you moving on to the to the time festival requesting to closing of tenth street and the alcohol permit who will present that to me just give you summary  you discuss this at the study session and at the pre council here this evening two of time like to hold a new event on may thirteenth two thousand and eighteen at it's mother's day and they talked about an event that would take place in centennial park and along with that event part of it they would they're asking to close a portion of tenth street in between river and central so that they could serve alcohol event and also food carts at that location as well so before you i think you need to talk about the closing of ten street and also the serving of alcohol and what we're asking you tonight is not to approve these formally but to approve this in concept and then authorized to allow time to proceed with the applications because our staff these applications have to go through our staff or comment we have not had time to do that yet and so we would shoot for the january three meeting with you to have to submit those applications if you gave us the go ahead into a time to go ahead this evening so rescue just approve this consider this in concept and author of the  proceeding with preparing applications thank you greg gwen is here as well for she's been here patiently meeting after meeting is there any questions yes yes so what's the pleasure of counsel yes mike but i'm going to make a motion here that we separate these three actually separate into three whole that i'm rethinking this separated into different categories the first my recommendation or my my motion would be too except in concept the event itself in centennial park in the reason why we even a talk about this is because it says the city council shall not allow the sale possession and consumption of beer and wine at collin park then brok park a small number of park prospect park or centennial park so i'm asking that because it doesn't say after that unless approved by us so is it just walk through kind of the why won't the special request is coming to us and if we're able to do without changing that first or if it would require us to change that policy you you would not have to change that and what you're reading from is is the ordinance section twenty two ten that governs the possession sale possession consumption of alcohol on public property and the ordinance prohibits in those five parks it allows the city manager to issue permits for certain other locations without coming to you first and then it indicates that for all other locations that the application has to be approved by council first and then the manager can issue the permit and tenth street is one of those in the last category that have to come to you for resolution so it comes to you with really for approval to be able to sell and possess and consume alcohol in ten street during this event that would be the particular  issue we can do that with out with it with a resolution without amending the ordinance because ten street is outside the park one of the tricky things though is that the event organizers what to take great care to make sure people don't leave tenth street and go in to the park because once they cross the sidewalk into the park it's a misdemeanor to possess and consume alcohol in the park and a further can we do have a graphic that we can put up  and while that's a point up so if the request were not pretense period but fortunately a park would they be able to make him a can even make that request or based on the way this is written you can't even really make that request they can make the all they want but you would be precluded from approving it unless you have ended  spirit industry etc so they have a lot to lose on this particular item i'd like to go back just for a second and talk about the concept of mother's day however it's a traditional a very special day for mothers and grandmothers for many people it's a very enjoyable day to have time with those people and for others it may be a very hurtful time because of broken relationships or people passing away so it has a lot of a lot of feelings and a lot of other people it was started it has kind of interesting history because it was it was started sort of by a lady by the name of anna jarvis and she was really interested in supporting women especially who had lost sons in the war probably the civil war around the early one thousand nine hundred six it was started a methodist church there was a component of the christian temperance unit supporting that and actually the person whose was named after anna jarvis was really very unhappy the way things turned out because it ended up being supported by card industries and candy people and kind of really lost the meaning along the way so i think we have to think about a little historical thing here about what does bothers day can't imagine my taking my mother downtown for wine or beer was a different time i'm not saying that's a bad thing or we can't do that now because things change and they always do but for a lot of people there's a lot of history and a lot of tradition involved on it that they might not be as supportive of this and i think that's something to at least think about when we were pondering these carnations were given out red carnations were given to women who were to mothers who were still living in white ones were given as a remembrance for those who have passed on so there's a lot of tradition here and before we move ahead with new traditions i think we have to sometimes reflect about the past and where we've been and how it is that important or not important so let's be really careful in thought it's not going to be a surprise on my vote tonight i've been extremely consistent when i respect the heck of it you know that you just in his bryan mr lynn has said many times we made we had much debate over the five parts that we kept out of the up a whole frame and there was a specific reason for that no matter what my personal beliefs are no matter what my personal feelings are i have seen the results we need to if we're going to make a decision we need to stick by that decision we make an awful lot of sausage up here and this is one i hope we don't turn into that because we've made the sausage on this one a couple years back i think this event and i applaud tulip time and gwen for their creativity to have yet another day to extend to people that stick around hopefully they go to church in the morning hopefully th come to the park and enjoy some festive times and festive family time some good food in the park afterwards food trucks on the street i am not going to be drawn in by the monetary side of this i'm sorry i cannot be that's that's the excuse i'm sorry not an excuse that's the reason we for the sidewalk cafes for alcohol here alcohol there look at the money it's bringing in well is that money worth it in some cases i personally don't think so so i will be again consistent on this and voting against this portion of it i hope you all i wish you all the success for the event that goes on in the park i hope there's an awful lot of mothers and families that come out of there but this just does not rub me correct when you're trying to be in you know we're trying to make a family friendly event here but we're segregating people that want to have a glass of beer or whatever from their families in essence poisoning because of some hazing going on senseless absolutely senseless i'm not a good man i've said it many times folks don't misunderstand me i'm not a teetotaler i don't i don't judge people that drink i've never never done that you've also never seen me vote against an existing permit my stance has been the public areas that the city is responsible  for i cannot in good conscious seeing what's happening out there in these this this young man really really touched me today the responsibility there to taking for their actions especially in this specific vein where alcohol was is the respect for women alcohol clouds the judgment so on and so forth i'm not going to preach here but it touched me even deeper than it has in the past and just reinforced my belief as a responsible citizen as a responsible person on this council decision maker that i do not want to put the city in that vein i cannot in good conscious do that i simply can so no surprise i will not be supporting that portion of this recommendation thanks mike you know as i think the mother's day another group of people that find mother's day very difficult are women who are infertile and couples who deal with infertility  the joy and excitement of a baby is taken from them or it's never been theirs or having a stillborn or all of those kind of things come back to people at around mother's day and i think one of the best things that you can do for women and mother's day is to be together as a family whoever's there for the couples to be together for the extended family to be together for the kids to be together i think that's one of the best feelings  for mother's day or grandma and anything like this that can split a family so that somebody that doesn't want to do arts and crafts can go over and  have some drinks and enjoy their time alone without the family is kind of works against the deeper joy of the of the goal of the event and you know i understand the finances of it but if it's i would love to see an attempt at doing it with out the alcohol to see whether that could also be very successful even if we didn't have that part of it and it does it feels like we are going one stepping one told over the line in order to stay within our policy and just you know like the child that tries that one little step to see if they're really going to get in trouble or not and i know we can do it i i appreciate all the comments that we've had and this is obviously not a cavalier decision and we have huge respect for tulip time and the success of it and the way it has expanded in the way it has reached i was just talking to somebody today in her mid twent and her respect for at that variety that's been a part of the thing of tulip time and you know i think i hear it right from her that it's it's really been doing a great job so as mike said we're not saying anything against two time we feel a different kind of responsibility about this and some of us do i don't know what the vote is but anyone else have anything to say yet right just very quickly because  for me what well i think the concern is is you know one foot the other way at the park it's not allowed and i think that i did talk to one about this before where this wasn't a policy that was written before i was alive ironically it was something that's written since i've been on council and we spent a lot of time talking about what parks should be included what shouldn't and so for me it's more about the spirit of what we discussed in that process of protecting some of these parks to be alcohol free now whether that means family friendly to you or not it you know that's that's up to you and in your interpretation but it was just the idea of these parks were going to be alcohol free and there was a lot of discussion amongst us on should which one should it be where should it be i think any kenyans play rolling right now thinking am i going to have to rewrite this for a fifty third time and so that to me is really more the spirit here is well yes it's one tenth street it's that versus should be allowed on all the streets around centennial park if we're going to say centennial park is going to be alcohol free so that that's more my issue with it from that side of it completely sympathetic to all the other challenges and i would encourage you if possible to look at another one of our fine parks that does allow alcohol and if that's an option to serve it there because i wholeheartedly support that but on this specific request that i just want to explain why because it will be the only time that i i guess i guess i look at this a little differently i would say that there's a reason why we're here to make decisions based on once in a while things change to time his head i think  the challenge in the last few years finding ways to remain relevant and be all the great things you can be to lots and lots of people other than just going to gardeners in the first graders who like i did walk down the street got a candy apple for three days it's not that i mean i don't i'm not going to sit here and predict how all the people who are going to be visiting how in may from all of the state like to spend their mother's day that is not my choice to do that i don't think that's our job maybe we should have thought about centennial park being a place where we could have alcohol because it is right in the middle of our town probably one of the most likely places where it would be a good spot to do that so this isn't just a city holiday with a bunch of mothers and fathers and third graders sure the vsam of that there's all kinds of things they can do in the park as i understand this programming there might be some people here from all over the country all over the state trying to build this reputation for this i think there's probably plenty of mothers who would like to come here and be there with their kids and do something that kids are thirty three and thirty four years old and they're from milwaukee wisconsin and they want to grab a sandwich or one of those things and on have a glass of wine in a beautiful day in this beautiful park not too sure i share all the the judgment that comes with who's going to be here and how they're going to spend their time when they're here to at times i have no problem with it i think being flexible i respect the fact that at one time we said notice in telling a park i think we have the right to say all right something came up with philip that something came up that we didn't anticipate something's different and we have the right to do it and the next time it comes up we have the right to say no and la i'm ok with any other candidates i can think of a few mothers who would probably all pretty clear to both of you generally fall on the side of allowing things and believing that people have a responsibility and an ability to police themselves understanding that for many alcohol  i had reservations about say yes to this and it has i think it a lot to do with with my brother brian was talking about there's something different about this space and probably part of the reason that we excluded this parcel has a lot to do with the special nature of it it's the such a part of the community it's the place where i think at one time at least people had the i had a reason that was more logical because i make me feel better but about all i got on this is that allowing alcohol at an event in this space for one reason or another just doesn't feel right to me and i was surprised by that is probably right and this too may be the only time that this happens but  support the idea of the event there the idea of having trucks there is pretty cool but introducing that other element of beer and wine of this day in this space for this  honesty anybody else scott it does seem that the rules were passed protect certain areas of the city and these are those protected areas and it's probably our duty responsibility to look at these areas that we protected for a reason and say we have a judgment call the make here we're just across the street or just in the lane of traffic now obviously we allow that replication board debate a lot through other parts of the city but this seems to be if you will a little bit of a protective space for a community of everyone and so i'm just not inclined to support having alcohol on the fringes of the space that we've protected for a purpose or reason and we have logic behind it so i toil with that because i know we want to have opportunities for people to come  different things i'm just not sure this is the place some other place within the city might be more appropriate but i'm just not sure this area is the most logical place to do this thank route this is definitely nothing new it sounds like it's been set up in a few a few times now but in for me i'd say the first priority is that has everything to do or my my vote for no would be has everything to do with proximity to the park and kind of the attempt to circumvent a decision that was made by a council preceding my time with it to protect that park and that space and thought yeah sidestepping that just doesn't feel right at this time thanks scott i think of a need to about ten of the services my six seven songbirds i thank you i said i'm going to reflect back some of the things that you guys have said there's a reason i'm not on council because i'm not as eloquent as some of been and i really am sincerely saying that i mean that so i'm going to try to do this even though some of it is what you've already done because i i guess i want to lend my support to what some of you said ok the mother's day thing really does bother me as well and i'll tell you why i grew up with an alcohol abusing father i can remember as a child waiting while my mom went into a bar to try to find my dad and so for me to make a statement like this to others i mean to let let their husbands go behind the fence for a few minutes is just to be very strong pathetic and i'm not saying that from someone who because as it went on i my dad in my early adulthood and so then i have that reason as well because i've been on that side and i don't want to i don't want to see that in my downtown i don't want to be around it anymore even if it is behind a fence go into the bar i don't you know i can't stop that close the door and do your thing but in public with who knows what kind of composite makeup of families out there experiencing what we have no idea it's not our right all that being said i didn't mean to get into it that much i can store member the first time the first beer tent was authorized it took time and the argument was it's just and now we find ourselves here so i know it's an old argument the slippery slope but i'm sorry there are really slippery slopes and i'm not comfortable with that either and then of course and this is the cynical side of me is the money thing knowing what you just now know from where i'm coming from and where some of my money went in my early years trying to justify an event like this because it brings in money is offensive to me if you can't entertain families without alcohol then there's got to be something wrong with your creativity  there's got to be ways to do it without that i think i got or i did have it actually have a question to because i i don't understand what approved and concept means so that thank you refuse then sixteen eleven highland ave holland i appreciate the reference to the mother's day i brought along an old hymn book we used to sing at the mission and fellows would come forward for an altar call without even an altar call being issued because it brings such conviction so we cut out using it with thought it was an unfair emotional challenge but here with him meet mother in the memories of mother my mother's bible my mother's prayers mother knows mother's prayers now if i were pastor of central avenue or within five hundred feet of the park i would get a gospel brass band and play those songs but anyway another little book that i have is sponsored by many companies including a beer company on him forty and it's for the allegan county sheriff's department and they list twenty reasons why you shouldn't drink and i subbed in the schools i've done this for twenty five years and they have wonderful temperance messages and i hesitate to say this because they want to wipe out those books than after i said that but they give wonderful reasons and i feel the city council by allowing alcohol anywhere is really fighting not city hall but the police department the school system and the churches as well as parents but i'll just read five reasons one of the twenty here are most popular drug it's a depressant that slows down the brain's ability to think and make decisions which to have assigned if you think you won't drink if you drink you can't think the first drug sampled by most children is usually alcohol in beer or wine the younger one starts or the younger they start drinking the more likely they're to drink more heavily drink stronger drinks and develop a drinking drug problem later on the average child has seen more than one hundred thousand ads proclaiming the appeal of alcohol use before that child becomes a teenager and because alcohol is socially acceptable people forget that too much of it can be potent and dead thank you very much thank you  sandra houston sixteen eleven highland i'm the other half and i didn't i came here to pick up mail i didn't come here to speak i don't have anything written a couple months ago i was asked to volunteer to take someone in a wheelchair up and down eighth street so they could get out so they could see what it's all about be downtown get a new view from the nursing home i don't shop i don't shop downtown so that's me but i walked this man pushed this man up and down the street and i was so discouraged i would tell him this is a store that has cuckoo clocks this is a store and as i walked there there were so many places about call it made me sick i felt so bad i went home and of course i have written articles about alcohol before but i thought what is happening here and one of the articles i wrote a long time ago was what is holland known for as a tool of time or as an alcohol and to see on mother's day even tool of time around the park and i commend those who spoke that it's on the edge i just can't picture it i just can't as some of you know we worked at the mission and for fourteen years and we had those we had to deal with real alcohol problems and the effects of that and so i am just one hundred percent against this i would hate to see it spread more it's already on eighth street and it's it's terrible so it's my opinion thank you thank you just read the motion yeah they voted as i understand it is to accept and concept the serving of alcohol on tenth street know we already voted in the other so this is strictly the alcohol question and ten straight books  no peters garcia no linen no corben no where to bore no an actual application it was before you this evening i think it was a matter of getting a read on your feelings about this before they went through the application process it was routed to all of our staff and it would take you know a couple of weeks at least before it would come back to you so this was to get a reading on that and so that's the concept versus an actual application because yeah because it was a pretty good discussion and there is considerable  reaction and so we didn't want to invest all the staff time if the overall sense council was not to pursue thank you all right brian why does you talk about either red parkway as director of transportation thank you right good evening madam mayor good evening council members item before you tonight has to do with the formal step of bringing a newly constructed street into our street network otherwise known as again a few years back the initial piece of ita red parkway was built that's the road that you see there with the cul de sac that butts up to that red box there and then more recently this road was brought through the apple thank you brian any other questions or discussion by counsel well you know just real quick this little section here is going to be a great improvement as are you that some of you may remember that a number of people living along the street were having difficulty getting on the max bus and also problems with sidewalks so as a city takes this over i'm hoping that we can improve on that for disability people and older people who need transportation and clear sidewalks so i think it's a great great thing thank you wayne dave did you have something i was just heard a move that we adopt the recommended resolution  any other discussion yes mike just a remembrance here that it is important for city staff to get involved with roads such as this from the get go especially if there's any chance at all that they're going to be turned over to the public because we could get some substandard roads and all the sudden we have to stick a lot of money into it because somebody decided that they're going to turn it over so thank you very much for being in front of this one impact on apple avenue it's going to be there always has been but i think there's some improvements as m thank you now are moving to fiscal services in purchasing with the finance financial odd it for fiscal year twenty seventeen who does that look at mr wagner to handle easily think it's under fiscal services financial information and came up with what they call a clean and unqualified opinion which doesn't mean they're not qualified to make an opinion but it means that it is not qualified with any negative comments and  so they gave this good marks on that audit it shows the city's financial reports are consistent with what the finance department says they are supposed to be and so that's really what they're testing they also checked on internal controls and things of that nature to ensure that we have got good practices and so i'm happy to report at our last study session the audit was presented to council prior to that on monday the eleventh of december there was an audit committee meeting which consists of members of a couple members of the board in a couple of hours of the city council and all those groups were reviewed and accepted and so tonight we're asking council to accept a financial audit for fiscal year two thousand and seventeen let me just i just just a quick comment here that so to make that report and i think you've heard similar reports over the years and then you make motions and you accept them as information and you know express appreciation of finance office for their work all that is really warranted and i think it's really a real advantage for us to be able to do that every year because if those audit's don't come in is as well as what these were used to hear your whole conversation is different about just about everything you do because then you're focused on how do we get our fiscal house in order and that impacts a lot of your business we don't have to have that conversation around here where we talk about being fiscally responsible here's a great example of that and just give a lot of credit to our finance office for doing what they do  and enabling us to have conversations about other things and you know feeling good about how our family finances are handled each year so it's on me to come absolutely that's that's what the public does is trust us with their money right and their property taxes and expect us to be good stewards of it and we may decide where to spend it or how to spend it but we would as greg just said have any of those decisions if it was not handled in a clean unqualified way which is the weirdest word that they could pick in our to do world but anyway but it is a wonderful thing and the this says that our funds are handled with have we have a sound financial condition because of the way our funds are handled and we have ever since hundred ninety two which is almost like a quarter of a century every single year we have national certification of achievement for axle ends in financial reporting that is an amazing thing and only like ten percent of the towns and villages and cities in the state of michigan have that certification right i'm not sure it's ten percent it's probably less than that but it's it's  lot of little funds over there we've added authorities and we've added all kinds of things over the years how many separate accounts are there in your department tim do you know off the top of your head i really don't know when we conver software a few years back i think we converted about fifty three hundred account numbers so there's lots of transactions in each of those numbers while you know that kind of goes beyond the checkbook wow thank you it's such a little word and then there's no way there is no huge trophy for that and but it is that essence of what we do and it's the integrity of that department that gives all  of us the solid footing on which to do what we do for the city so very grateful yes mike to being part of the audit committee along with the mr lim we got the pleasure sitting through the presentation i can't say enough about the staff both the city and the b p w all the years that i've been on the audit committee all the years that we've had that in all the presentations that i've gone through even with  predecessor in the bigger challenge is with the federal government changes on a yearly basis the gaspe rules i think they just they're trying to prove their existence so they go get a dart board and start throwing darts up there well we're going to change this one i'm going to change that one and i'm just trying to keep up with those things the auditors bring them to our attention it's up to these guys to implemented and make sure that the reporting processes get done in a timely manner and fashion that the federal government requires so my hats off i respect you guys for that part of the audit committee is to to make sure that we're getting the proper things proper reports and asking the proper questions and we don't take that lightly but staff makes it a whole lot easier to sew in both like i said both the city and the in the b to be commended as the auditor say every year easiest group to work with they take an awful lot of time they're here for about five weeks and then they come back again because they also audit a lot of or other thank you we appreciate my good friend serving on that on this committee for us also thank you very much and the other comments so we are accepting this is information of fees and charges we have that explain please yes each year the city staff assembles a rather thick document that identifies all the fees and charges for the various departments in the various locations at the city it includes a number of information information items so that if a person were to come in and need to pay a fee of some sort there be some sort of standard reference point that says this is the point in time or the city council approve this and here is what that number is here is that the amount is and so that document is then prepared it's but on the internet it is available for those members of the public who are interested in that sort of will include things like what do you charge for building permits and what do we charge for an application for a brownfield plan or to not read talk about an uneasy certificate or to minute so it includes all those kinds of things as well as a host of other things including how much the finance charges department charges for our fiscal services to the max and to the airport and other things so it's a very comprehensive document it's it's hundred some pages long i believe short it's pretty much what it has been there's been some changes in the cemetery fees structure we've looked at other communities nearby and look at what other cemeteries are charged and try to standardize those there will be an increase to the w gardens entrance fees from nine dollars to ten year ten dollars next year and the majority of the charges are fairly minor and inconsequential the one thing that is still left to be determined somewhat is fees for the civic center and that will be amended at another time but to for the most part it's very comparable to what we paid or what citizens would have paid in last year in prior years so i'm recommending support of this recommendation thank you tend that shows a property that developer has asked the city to approve a neighborhood enterprise zone certificate back in august of sixteen the council approved a neighborhood enterprise zone district which in compass the entire block from just just west of of river avenue between eighth and ninth street which we also refer to as a d d k block as everyone knows i think in town that's been under construction for some time the first project first building at forty four east eighth street was the construction of a new building there and colorful prove the certificates for the for the residential properties in that building these certificates allow for a reduction in taxes to be paid on those properties for a period of ten years seven years it's going to be fifty percent of the average millage rate in the state of michigan which is somewhere in the twenty two mil range and then in years eight nine in ten  it's phased in i believe it's twenty five percent fifty percent seventy five percent of full cost and so tonight the request for the developer is for a certificate to be approved for the property located at sixty west eighth street that building is going to be a four story structure with twenty one apartments and levels two three and four and those apartments will receive a reduction in taxes for the period of time as described in the other scenarios it is expected that other properties as the development moves westward will request the same kind of thing in this case it will be a single certificate requested because there is a single owner of all those properties in the case of forty four he states st there were i believe six seven certificates requested six for the condos on the upper floor and one for the other apartments in that structure so the request of council tonight is to approve this resolution that authorizes the certificates for a certificate for sixty s a st when the building is completed the certificate will be submitted to the state and the ultimate leave the state grants the approved thank you tim we have a motion  part of the confusion the challenge we've had with any z's or you know different incentives in abatements that we have as tools as kind of how much are we given away and what are we getting in return and just trying to understand all that as we manage them individually in totality they have a fact and thanks to one of those gadsby rules that we talked about earlier for all of you which i'm sure you've come across to page one hundred five of the published two thousand and seventeen fiscal report but i'm not certain if it's the same on the electronic copy but while you're spending all the time i'm certain you are in that one of the things that i thought caught my eye is we the frequency of any z's that come up but  in terms of the dollar amount that actually effects so it makes up less than one percent of the amount of money that the city's portion in incentives and abatements that we've offered and so will be able to see in two thousand eighteen says you know financial version is ok how is it number changed and what portion it makes up and so it's actually it'll be a nice tool even though there's a lot of work that goes into capturing that information for us to be able to understand when we  individual piece like this how does that fit into the total amount of money that we're investing by not collecting and so i just think it's a it's a good thing for us as we're going forward and looking at these opportunities in the future of having a good understanding of what that actual dollar amount is and how it affects you know our ability to pay for things because then the day we do have to pay for stuff so it's really understand what with the developments so that they are getting a fair shake as well as a basis of this community so i hope attempts to i'm sure he will stay on top of that along with everyone else so just a heads up on that thank you wayne and the other comments this is only for half of the taxes they will be paying since the new construction they would do pay had the taxes and the other half will be going to the construction of the parking deck and after the seven years it starts ratcheting up for what they pay back to the city crack ten that's correct so all of these properties in that g d cable lock are in what's or retain all the taxes paid on the properties in that district and then those properties are for a larger going to be used to either reimburse the developer or in this case it will be used to  reimburse the debt on the parking deck which we plan on issuing next year so in the region we have with the developer is that the debt service gets paid first if there are surplus funds left over after that debt service amount is paid then developer gets reimbursed accordingly so the amazing thing about this particular development is that the taxes paid in that area will be actually used to help pay down the cost of yes and certainly it's no there's no question that the residents of those properties will benefit but certainly the shoppers as well and so there's still a mutual value for all of the users in that area thank you yes peter's here to bore yes motion passes eight zero wonderful now we go to management and ministry to services could you please tell us about the gifts that came in recently t nature center exhibits the lugar's family foundation two thousand seven hundred thirty dollars to the parks and recreation windmill island gardens michael and darla van heuvelen tribute to sarah simmons one hundred fifty they captured their hearts and they wrote in requesting a d v d about the history of the windmill and some how that got i don't know lost or misfiled or whatever and sarah  across that e mail communicated with them sent of her own money the copy of the d v d to this couple and they were just so impressed with the way that she cared about them and the kind of service that she gave them that they asked to be able to donate to the windmill in her honor so that's really customer service with a capital c are great grateful for that communications from the city manager  i think that's pretty some pretty interesting views of our little town that most of us don't get to see often so with that also it's as is our custom this time of year we were preparing a brochure for our yearly accomplishments we've also got a video which i'd like to show  that's great there that is the way to communicate today if it was fast action short and have a keeps people riveted we're always assessing how better to communicate with the public and i we appreciate all that the communication the marketing department does for us and helping us see the city in a fresh way thank you so communications from the mayor i'd just like to second greg's motion hoping that you have a wonderful holiday season with your family and friends and that you have an opportunity to appreciate the people around you i saw something on t v recently and whose father had been in pearl harbor and  he had gotten in trouble the night before and so he ended up in the brig they call that on one of the ships the ship that was right next to the arizona on that sunday morning and the bombs hit and he somehow was out on the deck and he saw these six guys on the edge with all the flames behind them and no way to escape and so he started throwing a rope over repeatedly till it finally made it and those six men were saved and there was a person that wrote a history of the bombing of the earth sauna on that morning in pearl harbor and they said some guy threw this rope across and didn't really know who it was and  but eventually it historians in ohio recorded this woman's father on tape saying yeah he saw i had seen that book and he said yeah i'm that  guy who threw that robe over and yes those six men were able to be saved and i guess there were two people that still survived and therefore they had the signatures of witnesses that made it possible for her her father to be honored in the white house with a medal and she said when i heard my dad's voice on that recording he'd been gone for nineteen years and i heard his voice she said it just affected me so deeply and the fact that he was finally recognized for that heroic act on that day and that it was confirmed just meant the world to me and as i thought about that i thought too about the conversations that we have around christmas with family and friends and so many times we get in the business of it all and the end wrapping of everything and the crowd management and what broke next in who did bring what and all the things that happened and we just kind of get through the holidays and i would i was thinking you know one year my brother said to me can you record dad talking about his past jobs and just have a conversation with him and record that and i did not do it and he passed away a few years ago and i can't tell you what i would do for that video for that tape now and i didn't take that opportunity and so i mean using this opportunity to challenge all of us to ask those questions to figure out something you might want to ask somebody in your family that you might not think of in the business of that event to think of it before you go so that when you leave you leave with something of deep value that will be important  years coming in the years later so anyway have a wonderful holiday and i hope you have a really special deep time with the people that are important to you communications from council members yes mike i'd like to thank you all so a very merry christmas to everyone in a very successful and joyous twenty eight we have a lot of big things coming up in the city so i'm looking forward to  at i really want to say is there was some some paying it forward if you will by our public safety officers here in last couple of weeks or they did a stint at one or two of the quality carwashes shout out to them quality carwash also for their donation and their generosity but our officers pumped gas and they said it was amazing some people didn't need the money they didn't need the gas so they gave them the donation so that they could help somebody else the community policing philosophy the spirit of giving spirit of brotherhood was alive and well they also did a stand that big b big because waverly i believe it was there there excuse me they said that the expressions on some people's faces when they see the officers out there pumping the gas or handing them their drink first of all you really know how to make that coffee that i just asked for but just the the the expressions they said were just just well worth everything that they did so the generosity of this community by the businesses the where with all of the police department how in public safety to be able to go out and show that brotherly love  the community involvement that we have this time of year especially is is very much needed in very much appreciated by a number of people out there so thank you to all those involved th and their comments and emotions are resolutions seeing that we had that first reading of the ordinance seventeen be we took off the agenda do we need to do something special about that