it is nine all four charts for the little delay in starting but before i start let me see we have a couple of issues to the first of all our policy is not operational today we have right in front of me swilling bring three cell phones they reacted to our district offices so we will do the best we can for communicating with our district offices during the course of the meeting especially in the area of public testimony our apologies for the problems they've been working on since early this morning and just could not get it fixed we are very sorry about that but we will do the best we can before we start the meeting and talking about cell phones and noise making devices i'd like to want if they would please turn off their cell phones or put it on a non noisy noise making modem i'd appreciate it the crown will be followed in the chamber at this time i'd morning at this time i'm going to make a quick check to see if we can how well our communication with the district offices will be using the cell phone let me start with our office  can you hear me yes we can thank you and i think that may be the best we can do ladies and gentlemen so we will proceed from there on the need for a man is from on a night off is denise can you hear me purpose of the resolution is to form a nine member special committee for term of one hundred eighty days selected by the council chair to consider the merits of county manager form of governance for the county of manager form of government so i would like this at this time to start public testimony if there's no objections against you please sign up if you're interested in testifying outside in the lobby of the eighth floor testimony will be limited to three minutes at doing a half minutes the light will turn yellow and on the third mean it on when it turns three minutes as you see the light will start blinking red please state your name and name's gregory evans i'm the chair of the cost of government commission and i just wanted to testify as i go over it regarding the establishment of a special committee on the establishing a council manager form of government  this is as many of you know is a topic that we've chosen ourselves to investigate at the request of county council and the mayor it's an important topic and it has a lot of a lot of variables to it as we've gotten into the research for our own investigation we found that there are even more facets to this than we originally anticipated and we applaud any effort to think that the council or anybody wants to make to look into it because it deserves  a lot of focus and attention to that end i would support the the extended time frame and the  eleven member commission i would as well recommended the the membership of that that board of that commission or a special committee excuse me be considered carefully and that those members would be a good representative representative sample from our county i did notice the recommendations did not include any additionally as we dig in the cost of government committee into this topic we will we've we've already realized our own limitations as a volunteer board  that there are going to be a few areas that we can focus on in many areas that we cannot and there's our timeframes it's looking like won't overlap as much as originally as we originally anticipated we would welcome ourselves as a reference for ourselves as a reference for offering areas that this this committee could investigate beginning to happen and researching and we would we would welcome any and we've we are beginning to decide which areas we are going to and investigate specifically it's clear it's become abundantly clear that it's a big enough topic that we will not be able to offer a comprehensive and i think that was that was obvious from the beginning but we want to offer a meaningful report that focuses on several different aspects of this this change and how long have you been doing this it was  i'm kind of interested i'm hearing what you're saying and i'm very i support the idea that you know this is not play an easy thing to do what kind of a timeframe have you given yourselves when do you hope to complete whatever you're going to try to do we would like depending on the content and what what you know what we get into that it's not a hard deadline that's our that's our goal thank you very much and i think it's kind of ambitious but that's just me it certainly are areas that we're obviously not selecting but are still important and we can die and we can contribute to this special committee by offering you know that as well i'm sure it whatever information you can dig up will be hopeful is it is our charter and so that's where we'll be focused ok and you would be actually drafted legislation you would just be simply writing a report no yeah it would be a report based on our finding the efficiency and effectiveness of this change in our you know what we are opinion as a committee as a board it is and it wouldn't be again it wouldn't cover the whole scope because that's not something that we can realistically do but it will be it will be what we believe to be the key several of the most important aspects of it ok and i think all of us here have appreciated many of the reports that have come out of the cost of government we appreciate and thank you mr ever for the work you're doing so i have you folks come to the point where you can look at existing municipalities it already incorporates this type of program but the ones that have kind of transition committee to evaluate this from every angle it's such an important topic that we would we would love to work together actually thank you very much there was a trick next just to fire diana custer followed and come to town and speak about this with you myself i am representing myself but as an educated community member because i am retired state and county employee county employee as i worked as a scientist  police department so i worked within the system and i as i have also worked with this is time to train career change which i started that project in two thousand and ten so that's been five years now so i think that gives me some insight into how to help this county improve as well as increasing affected and quality of work we also need to think about increasing accountability and oversight which i have found in my work seems to be lacking now the department i worked in the police department has accountability you know because there is a commission the commission hires the police chief and the police department is accountable to that commission so accountability is very important i note on that in las vegas they have a commission managing the police commission so really what we're dealing with here is how do we choose the most effective and accountable leadership for our community and anyone who says that one individual is not that important has never worked for a fabulous leader nor have they worked for a poor leader because a leader is important very important in this instance is incredibly important because we have an appointment of department heads this is probably for me the area most passionate about because when you read the charter you will see that there is really little experience required from our department heads and they shift with the wind the  elected official and then if you go and you look at the campaign contributions to the elected officials you start to get a look into how much money it costs to get one of those positions anywhere from ten to fifteen thousand dollar donations to the mayor from department heads with very little qualifications so that is an area where it becomes critical mass when you look at changing the system the first question is is this system going to what are the what are the pieces to the puzzle that will make this a complete and beneficial change which comes into the power of appointing and the job just of department heads when i first started my project and helping animal and i'm testifying just on my own not on behalf of any organization i'd just like to share my money not i think a lot of the community the paper has done a good job so  brought both of them i'm here because of this and then i hear the buzz around town for the last few months about this county manager position actually chair victory no i'm here because of you because i watch the t v and all of this and how i observe you getting it done attitude as does the counsel you and the council members have a lot in your plate right now and when members are eager to listen but also get the item moving so the process of the resolution resolution can be made along not just sit in committee for this and that reason but still inputs would still be allowed  on this to move it in a timely manner not one year saw always i do agree with hundred eighty days beginning on the date of the adoption i feel it allows enough time the one political position to make sense for our community now and having nine committee members with a broad range of knowledge for this position i feel is also great less than three council members makes sense to me as it allows again more committee members from the community and it would ensure that the appointed county manager would have professional high standards as far as who or how to pick yes we still are a small community and we take care of each other by sharing and showing that we know all what local values are you can be born and raised here and you still don't know what local values are so it's us as a community to show all this new county manager position are a lot personally i feel this is just on the side that it's important also to open this position for applicants outside of hawaii so some of our people who've had to move away in order to get a good job or education it will allow them a chance to apply and move back home so i'm glad i came to the just because of what i've been seeing so i encourage let's adopt the original resolution and let the folks of maui county decide with their vote in two thousand and sixteen the  my name is paul caley pone i am the vice chair of the casa government commission i'm here to talk a little bit about the process the cost of government commission went through and we were asked to investigate this topic by chairman mike white and absolutely fine with the establishment of a special committee we had a couple of questions for the chairman which we sent in a letter to him one of the reasons for this letter is because we wanted to avoid the duplication of effort between the two committees ourselves cause the governor commission and the special committee that was to be created for example reasons investigating the exact same topics was was of concern to us it was also a concern that potentially we would be asking the same people the same questions if there was bodies were looking at exactly the same topics and we were concerned with the possibility that if both committees were looking at the exact same topics with little to no coordination between the two that there may be confusion in the results that would then come especially if there was a difference in methodology in coming to recommendations and if there was different ways in which they went about looking at these kinds of things these are all issues expressed in our meetings to his staff or troy hashimoto who attends our meetings as well as to him in a letter we received a response from chairman white which did our very little to clearly delineate those tasks however despite those things we went forward with our own investigation and circulated to all of the council members on the topics that we were going to be looking into we then found that there was this debate going on with the being around the extension of the committee from one hundred eighty two three hundred sixty five days as well as an expansion of the committee members from nine to investigations and that indeed the special committee could then base a lot of their recommendations off of the work that we are trying to do already there are however some issues that we had with the resolution as propose reno the primary one being that as we go through public testimony from individuals one of their concerns continually is that there is a there's too close of a connection between businesses and the elected officials and because of that there are concerns that on our side that if there was explicit business executives and hospitality exacted on this commission it would essentially be the same thing or at least have the perception that there was a close connection between the two despite these things the cost of government commission will continue to go on with our investigation clearly delineating exactly what we're going to be looking at and sharing that with the council members as well as the council as well as the county merril office as needed i would like to stipulate to the council members  abilities i think that we as a committee have the make up we have an outline and we have the expertise can you conclude i want to thank you guesser the expertise to provide a very high quality academic research based evidence based report and recommendations that can be gathered from an independent source which is what our counsel what our commission is thank you thank you questions for the testifying misapply so thank you very much chair and thank for being here this morning you mentioned that there might be some concern about business executives and officials being too close and that's made the propose makeup of this special committee did you have concerns o ther concerns about the makeup mr evans already mentioned one which you as to have someone from a past merrill body be included in that as well and ultimately what we to perform a useful and appropriate recommendations for not just the council but also for the mayor's office as well as the public thank you very much for the questions for the testifier i have one and i thank you and again mine just like mr whites are really template resolutions that we will be working on and maybe changes can be made in fact nothing's in stone i never intended it to be that these are suggestions that the community brought to me because it has been all about business oriented business oriented we want a professional business manager that's our county manager ideas together and then come up with a suggestion is that what you're referring to i think a collaborative effort between the two committees is ultimately what we want yes you know we want there to be dialogue and want there to be an openness and transparency to our process as much as possible because i see that as being the key to eliminating any conflicts in the recommendations that we don't give or if there are differences of opinion that they can be stipulated in very open and a very transparent way too to everyone inevitably there are going to be things that we disagree with there are things that everybody disagrees with but as long as we're open and clear about what method we're using in coming to our recommendations we can discuss them in some meaningful way thank you and you know what i want also thank you for young gentlemen in our community and that really i know all  don't go there you know young enough to be my son so that's what i really thank you for being a part of this process because again i would what i would wish that more young people would take ownership this is your future we're talking about not so much  but their future your future and so thank you very very much for being in any other questions yes you're still white thank you and thank you mr coulibaly for being willing to have the cost of government commissioned work in an believe i see new leadership may be may be going to a very positive direction so i look forward to your offer to work and advisory capacity with the committee should be formed so thank you very much for being here something about the independence the the supposed independence of the of the dog objections yes i think one of the one of the main things about the cost of government commission is something that i really enjoy about it is that it is the appointment to the the commission itself is one that goes through both the m and the council we are a body that largely existed before this topic even came up prior to chairman white's letter we were not planning on investigating this topic at all and it was only at the be has been a great resource to us because the county auditor puts very strong import on his independence as something and he advises us and she's also a very good one too to keep us in line when there is something  offices to see if there's any testifiers that may want to testify mr joyner good morning good morning aloha joyner standing at this podium for more than three decades and branches of government the and executive the legislative and the judicial and i feel that this proposal to replace the mayor with a non elected official is not in agreement with that principle there's always been a conflict between the mayor and the council i go back to the days of animal to virus and remember conflicts particularly with linda lingle legal  threw rocks and threw rocks or conflicts with everybody i never saw the man come up with a single proposal to fix anything but he got reelected over and over and over everybody department heads volunteered every weekend they led by example it was incredible that we had charmaine and charmaine in our cover over both lost the election because they were stuck in a if you do and damned if you don't situation which was no win and both lost so in our back i would like to speak very loudly that i want to keep i think there should be an elected official that everybody in the county has an opportunity to have a say for who the mayor is ok but you're ok with the one of these commissions if you want to waste the money wishing to testify thank you denise on the denise is there anyone wishing to testify you and we'll check a little bit later because we have right now signed up twenty two testifiers so we will check maybe in about ten testifiers will back to our district offices at this time i'd like to call on mr jim to take away my vote for the mayor to manage the value of my vote by fifty percent on the basis that the dollar is more valuable it's kind of a fence so the whole subject myself  't need to be discussed but it will if you take up as serious to the proposition before you which is that we should contemplate because of the failed executive performances  remove all of responsibility from that performance excluding your own failed ok performance so if you're failed we replace this failure by your failure so that's wonderful and doesn't leave me encouraged because my vote same power as another one named allen our isn't that a kick in the pants so this is what is at issue so i don't even i think it needs to be considered seriously by this body one of the things that cues me to this is the notion that complexity of this process of governance for our community is just too great for this process to continue ok well twenty odd of the thirty this nonsense well it's because of superiority high and solve sabir we're sitting in my walled community then i can see that we don't bury this crap we don't need these guys getting paid off and all the kind you guys don't have any integrity because i know what the common good is i've got my millions and i've succeeded so i know what the common good is and the  stay the way it should with fifty percent less or at the same level and you are going to even deal with this question it's ridiculous on its face so you've got the costs of government commission doing whatever you want to do you gotta remember to err is human and you've got more important fish to fry coming up this next term with an election why why because  interesting of the follow up to jim smith and they delay on speaking as an individual citizen as a political scientist and as a member of the two thousand and twelve charter commission the person who made the motion that more professional more efficient more effective form of government what i'm not open to is a rush to judgment that because the former government reportedly works so well in other mainland communities that incapable folks went out of their way to make the introductions happen without first studying the potential impacts the rest is history just because the government comes under the general rubric of county very unique cultures on each as a comparison of apples to make such a proposal if the council's actions always on the record to the county manager system fail yes they do just ask the voters a bell california or the communities that where  legislative bodies repeatedly fire their managers every six months at the journalist eyeball of the adage if your mother tell that she loves you check it out what it proposes a complete take so we continue to be in favor of going forward stablish in a blue really blue ribbon committee on this matter if such a special committee is approved which we expect then the details can determine potential successful outcome we are in favor of allowing this term to extend up to six months and not expanding it to a full year as it is our understanding that once the special committee concludes there will still be continued to scrushy and evaluation by this committee and put from the cost of government commission continuous community input and then finally back to the council on the process extend for years before the voters can cast a ballot please do not deny the voters this opportunity if they decide to change would be beneficial should we not proceed quickly to reap the benefit conversely if not beneficial let the government move on to the business of the community we asked the committee to widen the potential scope of who would be qualified to serve here the restrictions in the proposed resolution could deny any qualified individual  on a county manager system of governance whilst wildstar excuse me why starting a many even even all who have been known for the three council members we feel that is kind of redundant since the committee findings would go back to the council for making final determination so having three council members on on this committee  making the decision to recommend to the council what to do that's when we come up with the term redundant casey is making plans for our first community meeting of the new year on january nineteenth twenty sixteen establishing a balanced balance for further discussion to examine this very issue as our way of stimulating interest and discussion among our members and guests  know less i state otherwise they are all speaking on their behalf great michael good morning chair victory and all members of the committee thank you for the opportunity to speak on this item today i am michael toronto residents speaking as an individual the concept of restructuring our county government is most interesting and should be given ample security and study before any decisions are made that will alter the way government functions today my biggest concern is that we avoid getting in a hurry to make changes just for sake of change the idea that just because it works in another jurisdiction it will work here in it county too would be a wrong path to follow we have our at our disposal a mechanism already in place here in the county to establish a special committee that could be formed that would be dedicated to study this concept i'm talking about the method that is used to select members of our most important boards and commissions interested and not citizens would be afforded the opportunity to submit their applications with their qualifications to this body for consideration to serve in this capacity i envision a committee of no more than nine or eleven members that will serve as long as necessary to fully vet this concept and provide expert recommendations to the county council and through the administration i cannot stress enough that the idea of restructuring our county government these herbs all the time possible to provide us with a truly workable system that will serve all of the residents of maui and i e i thank know me i am a resident i have been a resident of way for fourteen years twenty one years as a visitor i'm a writer and author my story with many people  the also on the subject of our government i often say if it makes sense on my way we do the opposite and i have an open mind on whether we need a colony manager however i must say that i think we would benefit from from fresh thinking from people who know what a park goes who know what a good park is you know what good infrastructure is and who know what good government i think that it's been said that bringing in an outsider perhaps someone from the mainland is not a good idea because they don't know where i'm always and this often happens in where general managers are brought in from the mainland and they don't have a clue and they have no one to advise them on our cultural ways is going to be overcome with the county manager who has a good advisor who can talk to them about my ways mr white friend was absent more managerial experience victor reno once a committee to complete the study in a year even though six months is more than enough time to review in my opinion this topic this is not  complicated some testifiers have said it's complicated it's complex there are many places in this country that have county or city or village managers that's a that's a area of experience a lot of experience and would not be too difficult up into that experience we need independent thinkers on this committee who are open minded analytical and have good communication skills when i was on the maui county health care task force appointed by speakers say i was an independent voice and i was able to secure as paul james brown my name is mark i provided the clerk with the copy of the i b m study that i've referenced in an e mail to all of you so that you'll have that at your disposal by the way norman i served on the same task force and in the period of four and the committee was entirely composed of citizens and we banged it out i think a much more complex tasks than that which this committee will face now i'm not diminishing the complexity  as nor mentioned this is a well established former government that's been around for one hundred years and it is deployed in multiple jurisdictions across the country and consequently and i should say that there are experts who are willing and able to come in and provide information to this committee to bring people up to speed as to what some of the pitfalls are what some of the advantages are and to help guide that work quite quickly of variation in the fish and sea performance of the top one hundred cities in america and it determined that geography was not the guiding issue is not demographics it came down to quality of management and it concluded explicitly that the county manager form of government is ten percent more effective now if you apply that to our budgets you couldn't can quickly conclude that there are literally billions of dollars as stake in the future if we stay with the current system versus go to a new system secondly with regard to the constituency of the committee i highly recommend that it be composed only of citizens and not members of the county council or the administration you know the people do a pretty darn good job and the people are the ones who you trust under the charter with the charter commission and they work for free they work really hard they do a great job in effect what you're asking here is to form a charter commission offline to address  single issue there's also the question of political ambition of some of the members of the council either for themselves or for others and that can cast a pall over the work this group and i think it should be removed and as norm pointed out there is a significant role for this council in formulating the committee and you valuating the results when it comes back so you have a huge role to play but i would say not a role to play on the committee thank you very much thank you very much appreciate that any questions for this to fire thank you next testifier is mr paul james brown and followed by nelly woods brown i live in ma mr chair and members of the committee thank you for this opportunity to share my thoughts with you about this resolution to establish a committee to draft and initiative to change our charter to allow for the council to hire a professional experienced manager to operate the county organization to support the resolution as submitted by council chair white the change of the amount of days from one hundred eighty to three hundred sixty five to push this effort past the deadline in july occluding this effort from getting on the twenty sixteen ballot if god can create the earth and all living things in six days surely we can form a committee and draft an initiative to change government in six months i an english major i am not i neither an accountant or a math whiz however i was able to find some rather compelling information in about sixty minutes i thought well let's look at counties with similar total budgets and see what that yields and then let's look at counties with similar populations and see what their budgets are i thought what state has similar economy to ours tourist based many retirees with year round warm climate who florida seemed an obvious choice so i look at counties with those budgets or population characteristics who have county manager structures manatee florida comes up that was the closest to our budget there is five hundred seventy seven million dollars with an additional ninety one thousand nine hundred one million dollars  paid however their population is more than twice incidentally their administrative salary and wages were one point nine million dollars which included the entire budget of the county commissioners and the county manager and then i found two counties with similar size populations who have county manager forms of government charlotte county one hundred sixty two thousand people with a budget of six hundred forty three point two million dollars and in this  and benefits of one point one nine million and staff incidentally charlotte county operates departments such as health and library done by the state here santa rosa florida one hundred sixty one thousand people has a total budget of seventy three million dollars with administrative salary and wages and fridges at one hundred and eighty one thousand dollars for two people you all know what our budget is and what our administrators salaries and wages are so i don't need to do a comparison here suffice to say that if an english major could come up with this data in sixty minutes the special committee which such combined expertise meeting twice a month for six months will certainly be able to do it even better i understand there are several professional organizations who can offer expertise to them as we plan for the transition of the members of this committee to pass the resolution that was referred to this committee by the council and recommend its adoption at the next possible council meeting the citizens of been waiting for this opportunity since one thousand nine hundred sixty four when i was a freshman in high school charter commission after charter commission had recommended this change the time you know thank you conclude thank you very much and thank you for your enthusiasm and you good morning chair victory no in committee members i know woods and i was a member of the west maui charter working group whose task was to review the existing county charter to determine if there were areas that needed changes or updates we issued our final report in late two thousand and ten posted online at west maui charter dot org and sent it to the charter commission it was formed in two thousand and eleven our proposal number two was to change the structure of county government to that of a county manager a ceremonial mayor as a non voting chairman of the county council this concept goes all the way back to the first charter commission in one thousand nine hundred sixty four the third charter commission in one thousand nine hundred seventy five also reviewed a similar proposal which was supported by mayor elmer covello who stated the adoption of the city manager form of government would ensure high quality talent for the chief executive position within the county as well as removing the position from undue political influence carollo stands in history as the only county mayor to support this change this concept has been a topic of discussion for more than fifty years now and it has always been the people of maui county who continue to push for better government and who are still waiting for those they have elected to give them the opportunity to vote on their future we live in an information age the materials needed to intelligently assess if a change is appropriate are readily available if the committee recommends a governance structure change it needs to get on the twenty sixteen ballot so that if passed there is a two year window to prepare for the transition at the end of may or allen our account was the current term if it doesn't get on the twenty sixteen ballot that delay could the taxpayers more than a quarter of a billion dollars in lost efficiency over the four years to go for government services is to be transparent effect responsive to the needs of the residents it is your job to deliver on that goal regardless of any effect on your personal ambitions perception is how each of us views any given action by an individual or group please ask yourselves how requiring that the committee members appointed must each fit a pigeonhole and stead of just looking for a broad spectrum of education and experience and those who are willing to serve will be perceived by your constituents i urge you all to support the creation of this committee as originally presented in mike white's resolution mahalo for all your efforts on our behalf and i hope your legacy is that you were the ones with the vision to give maui county voters mr hyde's recommendation that the makeup of the council or the committee be citizens and anyone from the administration our council because they believe that they will have a chance to weigh in the later and nine community ma'am that would be my preference the truth is i am a pretty much lower level colony employee that had a chance to run for office and that experience showed me that running a campaign and actually doing the job were planning to do the job are two completely different beings you kin throw the didn't know the most people you can be popular but that doesn't really prepare you for the job you're campaigning for and requirement to be have nothing to do with being the boss of two thousand and five hundred employees or administering and implementing a five hundred million dollar budget and things like dealing with our trash or providing water shouldn't be political it's basic necessities that can be done by someone who has the training experience to i feel that there was so much we and so much back and forth and so much political vendetta is omar whatever you know that it was really a disservice to our future generations when we had the money and the resources to fix problems people were just being paid in and you know political and being a parent of young children who will grow up and live here i think we need to do better for them and we need to do better for them now and i'm not seeing this because i think that the mean their models i better i think that if we study their models and then fit them to on us we can do it better for ourselves not by copying the mainland and i realize it's a complex subject but i have faith that we can do it because we are smart we have our own university here now and if we choose correctly the best possible  a victory no members of the committee i'm speaking as an individual and i strongly support the formation of this committee and a careful examination of the alternatives for the county if appropriate the preparation of a draft resolution they could be placed in front of the voters next november oh my like to speak to a number comments that have been made either here in the papers or in the commissions that have i think been highly romeo's the cost of government commission at its meeting in september i had the administration tell them that there's no possible way we could afford to do something like this because it have to pay a county manager seven hundred fifty thousand dollars to do the equivalent this is a report by the international city county managers association which is the largest organization that's looking at  manager city manager types of structures extensive research lots of scientific data their background i'm a scientist i look at reports i look at data what they i have shown in this report in a nice little table in page five this came out this year in july is that for the jurisdictions are saudis you know in the one hundred to two hundred fifty thousand population range the average city chief administrative officer makes two hundred eight thousand dollars in the counties the average makes one hundred sixty seven thousand dollars this is not much more than we pay now and if you simply look at the amount that gets put into all of various had minute to trade of support positions we more than have enough in the ministry of budget to be able to do this so it is not an excess cost there's the comments been made repeatedly and interesting enough i keep hearing from several different people but there's one hundred forty different things we'd have to compare there are there are two there is a current strong mayor structure and there is this proposed county manager structure there's a lot of little variations inside the structures themselves have been extensively studied the i c m a neko which cou been president of in c l the national city league league of cities have all looked at this and all of them support the concept of showing how strong management comes when you have managers who are in place who are professional who are not replaced at every turn over election there all along with most of the rest of the upper management there the mount of money that's lost during those types of transitions have been covered in a number of reports that show that when you replace an employee a regular level employee it's going to cost you one hundred fifty percent of their salary in the first year they've got to be brought up to speed training and affective  and finally i would say away eke out he is undergoing the same process as we speak it's an opportunity for our committee our county to be working with accountant co why i county talking to experts bringing in experts sharing our resources of the money spent on this process would be most effective and as a final note let me say to mr smith you can't have an elected mayor it would just concern american veteran and he noted veteran participated in my call dan went thank you for your services sir thank you chair i've been asking around about this particular issue for a while and with the most advantage i see of having a county manager is to bring the fiscal responsibility of how the money's being spent  clearly in favor of having this on the ballot in two thousand and sixteen i don't care whether it's a seven member committee a nine member committee or a fifteen member committee personally i think a few more  responsible fits management within the government however i also believe that we cannot negate the power completely mayor we still have to have somebody besides the person who is in charge of running the county to go to the state and to lobby for what the state needs because he is would be a would be l elected representative of the people there should be a way between seven nine eleven fifteen people to come up with a decent proposal that will carry this into the future this county into the future without taking away the mayor having a mayor have any influence on what's going on but the main part of this issue should be the fiscal responsibility of how we spend six hundred twenty million dollars a year which we all know is going to go up and all i would i don't believe i have the educational experience for this commission pragmatism but i don't think i've got a chance of getting there my strongest advice on this whole thing is don't kick the can down the road on the twenty sixteen ballot thank you thank you michael member of the west working charter commission and then a member of the charter commission and it's so nice to see many of the people from the charter commission here today we don't get together very often we had a great time and and say that very seriously in that you've heard a lot of testimony this morning pro and con the charter commission that i was on i think is a wonderful working model for how this committee could operate it was a charter commission brought together by the mayor and the council representative of people all across the county we had a number of very complex issue that we had to take on and we took them on and we did it in a fairly rapid period of time and we did that because we were focused we divided up the tasks we brought the information back to committee and we worked through the process did we have disagreements you better believe it we had a lot of disagreements but we all learned a lot from each other and we did something that at the beginning none of us thought we c do and that was come up with a fairly large number of resolutions to go on the ballot and the majority of those resolutions got passed and they got passed because we did our job and we did it well we put the information together we presented it to the members of the community we went out had meetings took testimony brought it back to compiled it and did our task this co could do that very same thing and it could do it it could do it in a relatively shorter period of time then going three hundred sixty five days i really believe that the other thing i want to emphasize is i've heard a lot of people say well if it's not broken let's not fix it you know i just i don't get that you go to the doctor every year for a physical i hope you bring your car to have a tune up or to have it looked at if you're on the farm you make sure that your equipment is working you don't wait until the tractor stops in the middle of the  to me the idea of doing something proactive it's proactive maintenance i don't know what the committee is going to come up with i don't know that it's going to say this is what you ought to do in terms of keeping the mayor this is what you ought to do in terms of county manager but the idea of looking at something periodic lee is terribly important and virtually all institutions in this country do that we have evaluation of academic programs we have a valuation of businesses there's no reason why we can't take a look at this and not be frightened by it which in some ways is what i think people  are apt it's like oh well if we do this everything is going to change maybe it will maybe it won't but if we look at it it can change in a very positive structured organized fashion which is how decisions ought to be made that's what i got for you to you for and i want to thank you for giving me this opportunity of appearing here today this is a really really big deal the fact that it's been around since  thousand for and i'm a retired educator a lot of you know that when i used to teach in the classroom i would always tell my students if something keeps coming back up over and over and over again maybe that's a clue some complete your testimony and by the way when you keep repeating this issue and finding the same result they call that insanity ok i know that's what you were leading to so i wanted to cut you off with a very very much thank you flora you know i  admired what you doing and i think the people that have you worked with you and others you know my my whole take and what i feel and we'll talk more about it is really to get some expertise on it so it can be changed in effect will find a version of what we all propose we will work at it you know but i agree with your last statement that we should periodic look at all aspects of government and just like we do in business and when you fail to do that that's when you feel to be effective good morning my name is sad schaffer because of the three minute thing which i'm not very good at going to read this but i'm hoping that you'll have some i can the folks in questions from you have a little little  if there was a county manager with this council what would it mean to you all personally and so i made a couple of points under the present system in order to talk to staff or department head you must get permission of the mayor's office that's a memo this would go away under a county manager it would expedite problem solving and a lemonade stonewalling when that be nice under the current system where the nine member council elected at large can adopt a policy and the mayor elected by the same electorate can override that policy by ignoring it or not enforcing will and the frustration council feels when people like me come here and blame you for not enforcing a resolution or not addressing a problem when it really is beyond your control that will be over the buck will stop here county government policy would be adopted by the council and carried out by county manager a team effort i have watched department heads and dept deputies disrespect this council many times including vicious personal attacks from the speaker's podium as well as staff table with no pushback from the administration this would stop the department heads would serve at the pleasure of the council and the county manager excepted policy of the county manager would require that all personnel  when they disrespect you they are disrespecting every person who cast their vote for you corporate council would look would work directly for the council there would be no need for with a little diversion because between the manager and the council would be the attorney said the attorney is yours currently  cast in the mayor the one exception had a heavily financed campaign opponent and still won i guess i'm going to have to quit and i hate it i think this  manager type well it was interesting it was your perspective of in the city we had in in my city the city of thousand oaks we had the mayor rotated among the council members their elected the council was elected a mayor and a vice mayor was selected within the council and that rotated every year so every council member was mayor the city next door to simi valley had an elected mayor and the only thing different oh absolutely i had a manager's and interestingly enough those county managers i keep hearing this saying about contracts in your stack with interesting the county manager in both instances didn't have contracts until the council and and the board of supervisors insisted because they were so good they were filled to the other counties were trying to nab our manager and so we were we said we want to put you under contract so that we don't have to worry was the manager selected by the council for them here but it's different than actually there's there are there are i don't want to call them employment agencies but their executive search agencies they wouldn't do nothing but government officials and they would screen down give us a pool as citizens committee would do the reviewing the manager had the final pick the final three and then they were interviewed by the council and the council made the decision so it was it was it was very it was very hands on resolutions here whether you support either or both of those i actually i support and chairman mights i think it said it's straightforward i think when you give somebody three hundred sixty five days that is a log of time that is a long long time and i think this committee i someone said was planning to meet twice a month i would think this committee with me very often and i'm here is an individual i live upcountry and i have already put a lot of thought and a lot of effort into this because it's not so much that we just have a broken system it's just that there'd seem to be better ways out there and and it's not any personality i'm seeing problems from people i know within departments and such that just don't get it addressed properly because the structure is one that makes it hard it hamstrings everybody it hamstrings the council and it hamstrings the mayor and it does all the staff it's also very depressing thing to staff to know that no matter how good they are they're never going to be the top of the heap because they're not in a place to be a political appointee but i've digressed in all of my funder for everything i plan and saying has been said and quite often said better than i was going to say  thing that has become obvious is the time frame is to me way extended i even find one hundred eighty days to be too far out i think that a committee that's dedicated citizens that have the time not a committee made up of people who may not have the time that kind of delays things just because they can't be available and not to anybody's intention something to be very careful of because there needs to be community input because there are obviously all these cops excuse me permutations i think that to me ninety days maybe one hundred twenty days would be enough time to get something back to the consul in a format it's ready to go out to the citizenship of the community it's whole because they're going to be looking at all of those little issues can we have an elected mayor with different kinds of duties can prescribed the qualifications needed for places we know that the general time for turnover would be absolutely ample because it takes someplace between seven and twelve months to make that adjustment between i'm a oral and the county manager form of government it's happened other places over and over again there's also been some question and i do want to address this missing other things is that we don't really have a check and balance now and we don't have a need for that same kind of tripe are we are not making treaties we are not raising arms this is a county we have basic services to address so our primary thing has to be in addressing who is making sure we get our water  i thank you for letting me address you i'm just speaking as a citizen involved in concerned about our county literally i've only been thinking about this for five weeks and it came up at a party someone was discussing having  change in the way that we run i was against it when i first started talking about it i'm here actually now in favor of it and a lot of that has to do with implementation of the public will you know what the people want to do we actually that and the public confidence in our government you know from the federal level down to the state and to the county is not hot i mean it's reflected in our voter turnout you know people here one the majority of people who voted but they haven't won a majority of people in the county and why is that i don't know but it's a serious question the funds that we have in the county are approved by the council that's often ignored by the mayor there are things that have been approved that are not done funds that have been allocated that are not dispersed is that effective government i don't think so that's what we see that's what i see the we've been talking about with this council having had another study by another gentleman in that group it's common i mean it's not a surprise i don't think anybody here is surprised that that occurs why is that happening i mean can't we get this in a more organized fashion and you know i kind of like the fact that we're sitting here talking about it without having made a decision and i'm assuming that a decision hasn't been made and the comments about increasing our amount of time from one hundred eighty days to three sixty five i think is valid in some instances instances people who are inside the game know that you can run the clock you know in the military they call it slow w is that what we're trying to do here or do we really want to decision there are very few people who have expertise to running hundreds of million dollar business there is an established governmental studies program for the people who are learning how to do that it's not their money it's our money so they should be fighting our views and how do we get those views expressed through this council and possibly through the county manager the mayor is a separate position we express our vote there but i don't know any mayor in any kerry who has the expertise to run a coalition of polity the expertise to run a hundred million dollar corporation the personnel expertise to hire a qualified person they rely on the coalitions they rely on people and patronage and that's not what we're talking about here i think we're trying to find an effective way to serve the people and to serve the kids we're in a position now where things are getting dire global climate change is coming you know the people who are running for office don't always care so please you know help us out and serve us as we try to serve you thank  i came down at the beginning of last week went through the binder the materials on this topic this morning came down again on friday and that binder had had a number of additional inclusions in there and so we've had people out in the community who have indeed submitted paperwork for this so that's encouraging and this morning when i was listening to all of the folks everybody who could well i'm convinced testified we had more than twice as many people who testified in favor of looking into the change their view we don't do this right here right now and last week  mayor was here for all of us to listen to and he was dealing with a topic and several times he said this is not new and so we're dealing with the same thing i heard all these states this morning way back when people were dealing should we be dealing with a different style of government so one more time this is not new and i wasn't here in sixty four so i can't deal with that but i've been here since eighty two and have seen lots of changes and lots of things that i think there's still room for change and one thing is when we look at all of those w s when we're going to take any action and then the how are we going to do that the first one of those w we so often hear a person's name and that person like the rest of us could be dead tomorrow so when we're going to be taking actions we need to do that in my opinion with why why would we take a change why would we continue and there were people here this morning that had a foot in both of those worlds especially about the timing issue on there i think there's merit to that night as to whether or not we should look into a change in approach and when we read that resolution is it was and it talks about looking at different types this is not an either or and i remember testimony having been given  here before within the past month about we don't want to throw out the baby with the bathwater so excluding people right away i think is not a good idea we also don't want people drowning in the fluid surrounding that baby and there if we need to clean up some of those surrounding issues we need to do it now ok so it talks in here in this resolution about eliminating duplication overlapping of services i'd like to think everybody would agree with that it talks about planning coordinating consensus building and just making certainly our county auditor who was a long time in being a county auditor  about the commission wanting to go after is something that's not new it's a need and so i'm encouraging everybody to make sure they do follow this carefully i have served at various times of seven different county boards of commissions committees of various kinds over the years and so i come to you hoping that we can continue operating very effectively and i'm pleased to see that the resolution that mr  that a task force be set up and i'm hoping that today you will pass a resolution setting up a body that will look at the arter that we have conceived the amendments should be made to go a long line of a county manager position i have two suggestions to general suggestions that i'd like to change and i like you take out if you can the green sheet of paper which i passed out earlier i'm very strongly another four or five years if we do that by putting it on may sixteenth that we approximate the time when the council is finished up its budget process and you will be able to focus on this very important issue among all the other issues that you've delayed at that time you'll have them three months till early august to put something on the ballot if you so sees fit if the committee recommends that to you and so i strongly urge you to make the substitution put the on the first thing for a term of three sixty five delete that and on the two thousand sixteen ballot or until september thirtieth whichever comes first and the reason for that is that after they submit their report may sixteenth you may want to refer back to them certain questions that you have  itself and several people said it should not include council members of members administration i'm going to offer this is a something please for thought today and that is with regard to the members of the out of that page we have the three council members that you can consider and i'll teacup of committee where council members will be involved so that's one of those that i could make a change or request a change in time for that you know you'll have the day right now one of my suggestion would have been that the chair of the  long break i'm going to give you to eleven fifteen and i know some of you we've received testimony and this oh by the way i would also like with your permission to include all written and e mail testimony that we received with no to thank you very much and so at this time i want to give everyone to eleven fifteen try to be back by eleven fifteen that's twenty five minutes and if you want to you have these different reports that was submitted then take some time to review them because we range of testimony i want to think all of you for your your thoughts and your assistance in helping us to the members my agenda for today to go to twelve o'clock noon will have a basic discussion the two proposals and there are templates there are just resolution proposals so we can take either zero or or change and make a completely different one if you feel like or amend the two proposals that are on the table the two resolutions still be able to use them as resource people so i want to thank them for their assistance in this matter so with no further do i would like to call upon mr white because i want mr white to give an i have an but i stood at people isn't even as of yesterday at church asking me what this is all about and i said did you go on online to lead one lead i don't have internet yet but i don't do that kind of stuff that's up to you  that the general public has a good idea on what these resolutions me please if you don't mind thank you chair the resolution is entitle establishing a special committee on county governance where as the residents of my county expect their elected officials to strive to operate the county government at the highest level of efficiency and professionalism and as stated in the preamble to the county's governing document the revised charter of the policy of the county to promote economy efficiency and improved service in the transaction of the public business in the legislative and executive branches of the county by number one limiting expenditures to the lowest amount consistent with that sufficient performance of essential services activities and functions number two eliminating duplications and overlapping services activities and functions number three consolidating services activities and functions of a similar nature and number four a policy in services activities and functions not necessary to be efficient conduct of government and whereas the maoi county general plan emphasizes the importance of striving for good governance and whereas the countywide policy at page seventy eight establishes the goal for government services to be quote transparent effective efficient and responsive to the needs of the residents and quote with the objective to quote strengthen governmental planning coordination consensus building and decision making and quote and where as and implementing action associated with the good governance goals in the county wide policy plan is to quote evaluate and if necessary recommend modifications to the county charter that could result in a possible change to the form of governance for our county and quote and where as the quote two thousand and eleven dash two thousand and twelve county charter commission revised the final report to the county clerk june twenty fifth two thousand and twelve and quote at page thirty nine stated quote to thoroughly review the structure of the county of maui government research other models of county government governments and prepare a report and quote and where as as used in this resolution c county manager form of government and quote refers to any form of governance and which a professional manager is appointed to oversee a municipalities administrative operations and implement policies as stablished by the municipalities elect the legislative body including forms of government sometimes known as council manager and city manager and whereas since one nine hundred sixty nine now a county has had a council mayor form of government and whereas according to the summer two thousand and thirteen edition of the harvard law and policy review the most common form of municipal government in the united states is the county manager form of government and where as an accounting manager form of government the county manager usually has extensive professional expertise and the relevant advanced degree such as a masters of public administration are masters administration and where as a june two thousand and fifteen research report by the national association of counties entitled quote an overview of county administration and quote concluded a county manager for government can promote efficiency quote ensure counties provide quality services to their residents and quote and quote keep counties resilient in the face of unexpected changes and quote and whereas where as charter section fourteen dash one one provides charter and then months may be initiated by resolution of the council adopted after two readings and passed by a vote of six or more council members and whereas the council from time to time has established special committees to provide guidance on specific policy issues and where as the council would benefit from the guidance of such a special committee and the nature of a blue ribbon commission composed of the steamed community leaders on the questions of a whether the council should initiate a charter and then to establish a county manager form of government and b if so how the charter and then that should be structured now therefore resolved by the council of the county of maui that the special committee and county governance special committee is a stablished from the date of this resolution's adoption for a term of one hundred eighty days that the objective of the special committee is to consider and make a written recommendations to the council on whether the charter should be amended to establish a county manager form of government and if so how the form should be structured that for procedural and largest tickle purposes the special committee sho generally function as if it were a standing committee of the council and subject to the rules of the council that the special committee number four at the special committee should be made available for use by the special oh no that the council chamber should be made available for use by the special committee members that the council chairs shall select the membership of the special committee and in selecting the membership the council chair shall give consideration to geographic and other forms of diversity existing among nowi county's residents and appoint voting members as indicated in section six number six that the special committee shall be composed of nine voting members who are maori county residents such as the following a current or former elected officials at the county state or federal level be current or former officers of the county of mally including four former members of the charter commission or c members of the public with special expertise interest or experience and municipal governance public administration or business administration and seven certified copies of this resolution be transmitted to the mayor the council chair the corporation elected officials to strive to operate the county government at the highest level of efficiency and professionalism and as stated in the preamble to the county county's governing document thirty five charter of the county of maui one nine hundred eighty three as amended charter the people of the county of now i wish to secure the benefits of the best possible form of county government and whereas charter section three dash nine states and this is the same where as it is declared to be the policy of the county to promote economy efficiency and improve service and the transaction of the public business in the legislative and executive branches of the county by number one limiting expenditures to the lowest amount consistent with the efficient performance of essential services activities and functions number two eliminating duplication and overlapping of services activities and functions number three consolidating services activities and functions  similar nature number for a policy and services activities and functions not necessary to the efficient conduct of government and quote where as the maui county general plan emphasizes the importance of striving for good governance and where as the county wide policy page seventy eight establishes the goal for government services to be quote transparent effective efficient and responsive to the needs of residents and quote with the objective to quote strengthen government planning coordination consensus building and decision making  and whereas the implementing action associated with the good governance schools in the county wall county wide policy plan is to quote evaluate and if necessary recommend modifications to the county charter that could result in a possible to the form of governance from our county end quote and where as the quote two thousand and eleven two thousand and twelve now a county charter commission revised a final report to the county cork june twenty fifth two thousand and twelve and quote at page thirty nine stated quote the commission recommends that a task force be established to thoroughly review the structure of the county of maui government research other models of county governments and prepare a report and quote an where as as used in this resolution quote county manager form of government end quote refers to any form of government in which a professional manager has appointed to oversee and minister parodies administrative operations and implement policies established by the municipalities elect of a legislative body including forms of government sometimes known as council manager and city manager and whereas since nine nine now a county has had a council mayor form of government and no charter commission has since proposed a celtic manager form of government and whereas changing from a council mayor form of government government would require and then that's to the charter and where as charter section fourteen dash one and one provides charter and then there may be initiated by resolution of the council adopted after two readings and by a vote of six or more council members and whereas the council would benefit from the guidance of such a committee in the nature of a blue ribbon commission composed of the steamed community leaders on the questions of a whether the council should initiate a charter and then it to establish a county manager form of government and b if so how the charter and then it should be structured now therefore much of that was the same be it resolved by the council of the county of maui number one that the special committee on county governance is established from the date of this resolution's adoption pre term of three hundred sixty five days number two that the the objectives of the special committee a consider whether establishing the county manager form of government from our county would suggest improve the management and operation of county government and be written recommendations to the council on whether the charter should be amended to establish a care manager form of government and if so how the form should be structured number three out for procedural and law just tickle purposes but not for membership or other purposes the special committee s generally function as if it were a standing committee of the council and subject to the rules of the council number four that the special committee show regularly meet in the council chamber and when feasible at other public location blank the business executive blank the business executive blank hospitality business executive playing g hospitality business executive plank age profit organization executive blank community member with considerable professional experience with the now a county government blank j community member with considerable experience working for or with trade unions blank and k community member with considerable knowledge of county governance history playing number six but the special committee shall retain a facilitator to organize manage and facilitate committee functions understand the differences there were a lot of similarities to just a few so if you then be differences i would like to give mr white council chair white an opportunity to go over his proposal and if time allows i will do ninety not then we'll move you come back from lunch so cheer white i give you the floor i think it's fair to make this simple i think as some of the test fires pointed out the differences in the two resolutions are not significant there when there are obviously items that will want to discuss in more detail as large as the timing and and the the listing of members but i think i'm comfortable moving forward using must end up with a recommendation of a charter amendment and my intent and from the reading of yours i think your intent did say that we want to committee that is going to do a very thoughtful broad and thorough review of what the options are as far as the various models out there whether we have a mayor that is a mayor and a county manager or whether we stick with a mayor form my interest is just simply to have a thorough and exhaustive review of what the options are i don't think it's appropriate for us to to simply sit here and say you must come up with the charter amendment because that assumes that the county manager form is better for maui than the other and we're we're making that assumption now instead of later so i i'm comfortable moving ahead with with just forming the discussion around your resolution so the both of you and i both you and i agree that the the intent is to evaluate and determine whether an amendment to the charter is appropriate and i think that's the that's a question that should be left to the committee not me as a terminations by that they feel this should be a citizen committee and should not include the any number of council members i think that's something that's worth discussing and so with that i you know i'm comfortable movi hard document that we would like to make sure we send out to get it done in a very precise but a timeframe where good solid discussion is done by all because i don't want to venture into i don't want since i don't want our seniors i don't want any one segment to feel like they were not listened to and that they were there because it impacts everyone it's not just me it's not just us it's everyone and do we need to look at it i agree w hundred percent it's time and we should do it on a regular basis maybe get the child a commission to do it more often maybe have something special i don't know i don't want to go any further than that and i would rather not be bunty for keating from here and give my members an people you said you want to make sure that everybody can be able to participate i would like to see that one section change to walk by walk the motor districts or seven more districts one from each district then again i have no prejudgment as far as what i put out there again was the expertise necessary in some of these areas so i'd have no problem so long as those would be inclusive that bills bills go there we what have opportunity for some of these people to serve because it's very important we're talking the systemic final change in how we govern and it's business it's all predicated around the business aspect so i wanted that to be a part of it so i have no qualms in your suggestion and again will will will will go through this right now and then after this afternoon when we come back we can really get down into already and find some of the real changes that we want to introduce initial i have no problems again i appreciate what you're saying we can move along again like mr white said on my we had quite piers we're putting in only because we wanted something expertise in that or not to say it is not community members who have expertise but some of the thank you very much chair this is a very very important thing that we're discussing today and i think that it you know really deserves a lot of thought because we are essentially hearing people talk about restructuring in government and that's a big deal but we condy is over one hundred years old and what we have in spite of the fact that it has issues it has worked we do live in the best county in the entire country and we are fiscally in good shape and i think we do an excellent job we didn't get to be the best in the world by accident so i don't want to you know be very very negative this i do want to see that i am always open to evaluation i think evaluation is essential if you want to do better or you want to look at your strengths and weaknesses it's very good as you go forward and so therefore i think the look is good i don't want to say that i think it's really great there we're starting this discussion off today with this feeling of cooperation and i want to think for you know quickly stating proposals it's interesting as i'm listening to a member of weight my first reaction when i saw your your proposal with the three council members was i didn't want to see us to be a part of this committee you know i had a long long couple of discussions this week yesterday one for almost an hour in what i kept hearing was we want to remove politics i'm very sorry folks but i'm think i'm the oldest person on this floor and we're not going to remove politics from government ok let's get real it just isn't going to happen it'll be in a different form and it will be exercised in different as to what kind of politics and where the power goes but it is not going to remove politics i can tell you that i feel really good on working on this because it was alleged this morning ok some of us might be acting from political ambition i am very glad to see i have no political ambition or anything i'm running for is the border at the end of next year so maybe i can have some time off but i am a third generation ma when my family came here in eight hundred seventy eight we are very vested in our community we spend a lot of time and service in our community and i want it to be the best it can be this halloween i was very privileged to open facebook and see three of my great grandchildren and i am very concerned about what is going to be like for them i'm worried they're not going be able to live here so obviously we can do better even though we're doing ok so let's take a look i agree that i would like to see this committee and i don't care whether it's nine or eleven i think nine is functional we manage the council with nine i'd like to see district representation i think it's very important i'd like to see that at least one seat is given to  and if we're going to replace three council members maybe we replace those with three people from the community associations where we have people that are very involved in community and know what's going on and maybe can represent groups and go back and facilitate meetings with them i would like to see all of us have the opportunity and it's possible if we see nine council members each council member appoint one person and let's see what we come up with if we've got a good broad we need to have some qualifications for who these people should be i think they should have been here a while they need to have experience i'd like to see community experience and also community involvement you know if you haven't paid any attention to what is going on i think you're going to have a really hard time trying to suggest change the other thing i want to see is a very close relationship with the cost of government commission we charted charted them and said go do this we sent them a letter and said please work on this idea and because we did it and they're doing it i think it would be insulting to give them a key role and to coordinate our meetings with them we are only at the first step year and i have a whole bunch of colleagues i know that have similar thoughts so i'll be quiet for you're back on and that one hundred eighty year three hundred sixty five days thing too i personally would like to see i have every faith that this committee can get their work done in a very efficient and thorough manner and get it on th upcoming ballot personally that was my initial thought and i would like to see that happen also definitely incorporate the cost of government's hard work they've been put into this already but wondering where the work of our county auditor fits in also with this because they are charged with looking at efficiencies you know of our existing government and departments and what have you so i think and i and i heard cause the government does dialogue with our daughter but for sure some out have their presence and participation in this but i know this is just the beginning of our discussion this morning you know to be really thorough and secondly again this is not my document or mr white's document it's going to be our document transformed into what i we hope this tas d a lot of the testimony was all very heartfelt and very good one of the testifier said put it succinctly in that you know if you go to the doctor once a year maybe take your car in to get it ma but take a look at take a look at something that may not be broken but you know let's see if we're to go first on the right course it's been mentioned by a lot of testifiers that this is been discussed in several different commissions before i have the minutes of the original charter commission and it was definitely discussed and definitely pointed towards the mare system we have now  but that doesn't mean it's not the right for us at this point i do too would like to see if we can get it on the next ballot twenty sixteen but you know what i'm not at  the expense of doing a rush job and potentially missing things so if it doesn't it doesn't mean that you have to wait for twenty twenty two you could still do it in twenty eighteen in in a year or two just changeover you don't have to change over at the end of somebody's term so you know there is there is that concern  you know when we get down into the nitty gritty of this it is going to be if there is going to be a recommendation to change the charter that it is a huge change i mean it's not just a couple of sections in the charter it's a lot of the charter changes so i noticed in both of these resolutions need neither one of them talk about that language this commission this commission committee special committee i guess we're going to call it is that are the charges to actually make the charter language change proposal if they're going to introduce that for charter amendment yes so maybe we need to put that in the be it resolved to make sure that that is part of their thing not just to say do we do we  we not need this change because not only does the charter have to change we also have to get some h r s to change i did a little looking and there is a long list of h r s that you know talk about mayor but there are several things that specifically say the mayor has special powers so there are things that we have to do there too so there's a lot of stuff it's a lot of moving pieces i would love chamber should be made available yes it should be made available but i would strongly encourage more intimate and more you know like the committee room maybe downstairs or other places so that people can both the audience and the people and can be close and can discuss as opposed to this is really formal even in this informal committees set up this is awfully formal in here and we want this to be a little bit more given to back and county for me i think the one hundred eighty should work former member of the charter commission we did we were faced with about one hundred twenty five proposals initially think that once you have the task force or whatever you want to call that this committee is just concentrating and focusing on the governance of our our county and what sort of structure we wish to present and we don't know anything conclusive whether it's going to be on a ballot are not depending what what's going to be recommend appreciate that kind of representation if we're going to permit council members and if we look at cost effective perhaps council members from our district can dollars efficiency kind of report what it good to have another committee member to do something comparative because i think that's the one thing we're looking at as far as efficiency so it is a big paradigm shift for us to even consider something like this so it's a serious  and i come from the all school of the executive branch the legislative branch and you know this is like a while but i can appreciate the dialogue and the opportunity to have this discussion and in respond to those that may support such changes structure or may not support it so i think so i've been offered a dialogue with the committee would would be most helpful i would still say today that i still believe it is more appropriate for this committee to be recommending to the electorate considerations of confirmation considerations allow the council to go and appropriate financing we wouldn't have been able to but we did i think the council needs to step up working coordination with the county auditor and making sure that we have the  i can call on one hand how many pounds one has arthur ace providing all of its various part of our financial and if you do share responsibilities as a branch so before we start looking at the ministry i would say let's look at ourselves and make sure we are performing at the level that the community and the constituency also expects at this point in time i would have asked the committee that because i'm not convinced the guardian a county manager and i've seen a lot of different counties in my last year as the head of an equal and i'm not convinced that that's the right way for us to go it's the pending up on each unique situation you have counties that have no responsibility of roads no responsibility schools we don't have schools anymore we did but we still have route others have hospitals we don't state as that no but i would see this to put in for us to consider but department of management department of finance we've heard the main ones water i rather deal with any elected mayor that i can bleed out in four years then there would be a manager that would come to me with either a civil service protection or some other protection because what makes that assurance give me that woman is going to be properly administered with from that type of position i don't take for granted anything w being political chairman it's a problem when you try to drive partisanship in the way of a good judgment but being political is part of democracy it's there we need to use it testimony that was given by some of the former or prior elected officials that said that in their jurisdictions they the use different hyper a type of forms of government i'm interested to see how that those structures work and i'm very open to you know making things more efficient it seems politics will always be part of the government but i think that this county has taken steps in the past to do away with some forms of politics specifically on the council by making it nonpartisan you know one point you know there was very difficult to get things passed out because either you're a democrat or you're republican so being a forefront in that type of you know structure and revamping the system i think we did away with a lot of that  you know internal politics i think the next level is are we being more efficient can we be more efficient across the board on the administration side i know no other way of governing aside from the  r for you know i took office at a time where i got elected took office in january february we had a post office instead and then from there on we've got we had the member of we couldn't from experience as a a new legislator i would like to study and see if there's other ways i truly believe that mr okama has a good point in terms of allowing the council to vet through those who are appointed as director i did put forth last year or right before maybe a year and a half ago ordinance or a charter amend for allowing the council to terminate counsel and that didn't get far i have another amendment to the charter that was basically they have to provide background and resumes in full on qualifications to be a director or  the head prosecuting attorney that didn't go anywhere so i think mr comment is have a point we've got to step it up you know if we want to make things happen we also as a  think this is one one good way of opening the door to investigate other forms of government whether it will work or not i would like to study it and i'm open to it so thank you all i have a couple  questions on the amendments well let's not cover that you know what i want to ask everyone if you when you come back at one thirty if you have ideas amendments you want to bring forward i would have no qualms at that point to say that to take them in mansion questions and changes we can work off it i will say that we will start working off of mine because mr white and i have searched that will be the starting point but it can take any radiation did you perform that you want as a ten after twelve and i want to give everybody some chance to get relaxed in and get some food in and be ready for this afternoon i want to say that i want to thank the again the public i don't think every council member that is here today for the been very interesting and i think we're all wanting one thing plater government wherever and however we can find it is that correct mr guzman thank you so with no objections i will take a recess  the meeting of the policy and intergovernmental affairs committee will reconvene i hope all of you had a great lunch and were greeted to get rolling before we started i have had  put on the television off to our to my right to your left depending where you're sitting and we try to make the fonts as large as possible so for all the foreigner in the gallery i'm trying our best to make it as large as possible i agreed with the culture maybe next budget session we should have one more television off to my left for your right to wherever you're sitting so that no matter which side of the column so you see you can read it again as one testified on one testify or mentioned that he was able to go james brown he mentioned that he could get on the computer in sixty minutes find all for many answers off too many we having such a hard time getting engineers remember the word engineers and we're bringing them in we're giving them bonuses we were given housing allowance we were giving on moving costs to bring them here top notch engineers from the and the vast majority we did six months to a year salt by two years and moved back to number of regions one i heard wives were not happy comfortable had a hard time adapting and they had a hard time adapting to the local culture and the local environment they fall past a while that they could get a better job back there and they went right back still you know there is something to be said about opening it up but i think somebody also mentioned about opening up so that local talent that is in the main in might want to come back and we want them to come back but let's be careful how much we open it up too because once to get here and let me be very honest it's not an easy lifestyle to adapt to not everybody does and thought was very interesting that coming here and adapting to our lifestyle is not always easy and it has nothing to do with attitudes it's that has nothing to do with culture it has nothing to do with their heart it's a lifestyle  expense of living here in maui county or living in a state of why did anyone see last night the news report that number one cost of living in the united states number one not number two number one and we were expensive much more expensive than the number two i think was dishy columbia and then new york and there was a couple all normal someplace in maine breach bridgeport or something i forget connecticut well connecticut you would not i apologize but you know it was very eye opening to see that and the cost of utilities the cost of gas the cost of food unbelievable so again those who live here and we struggle to live here and we try to make ends meet here someone coming in may have a more difficult time understanding all of those dynamics not to see it's good to see it's bad but we want to put all the facts on the table ok so w forward one was mister carroll suggestion about all district representatives and two at large i've been i've been good at and we're going to go through this very soon you know but these numbers time frame i haven't changed or the floor for discussion whether we want to move to make any governance change or not and i think that's what the question is that his question have the conversation ok but i want to limit the discussion for the next half an hour because i want to move way i think it's i think it's appropriate for us to have the conversation as i said earlier i think the committee that is form can come up with a recommendation or  not but i think it's important for us to have the have a review so i would i support moving forward thinking which to goes on yes i would support moving forward and  what you wanted just to do yeah you know this is the suggestion about every district having a representative i get very specific on it too but ok all right so from what i can feel right now let's have the discussion and move on ok first of all districts yes full one from each district well i got specifics what every district would be presented ok so i went with the council districts as the predication on what districts i was going to be asking for so that's what from those districts and have the community make the choice who are going to put on there and try to get a community of people who are of different strings and also represented in the differ think two things that i have concern but this one is who will make their choice and secondly is i would not like to see put political candidates on this committee absolutely not like today i asked mr white at the meeting a month ago almost asked to bring forward some names so i was hoping everybody came prepared with something so that's what i meant plenty of names just got a in my when i make my decision i'm going to ask the person first before i put out so i've asked most of the people but i'm not there yet and i have actually everybody in washington is are we each nominating one and everybody voting on it and then go to the next outside for an independent study you know almost like what they have here in these international counties and city management association report and so i'm not sure how in doubt for what experiences will be among those members of this slate but hopefully they would at least we put in some provisions to allow them to work with other agencies  the facts in that data i don't want them spinning their wheels and making this more of a political fight as opposed to a data fax you know presented tape because it's really we're asking them to present facts and presentation or their recommendation based off of what you know so they're going to need to have some type of ability to engage with finders or an agency that can collect the data so i'm not sure where you want to go with this chair but i would like to see more professional not that i'm saying that people out there are not professional but there are agencies and institutions to actually do these type of studies that are independent and i agree with you and some of the agencies that have been brought up today that are international council with exact title they come in with expertise then we can sit down and listen and understand what they're talking about so it would not be limited to this is just the committee and then from there let them take it from there let's give them some direction but let them decide which way they would like to go so i agree with you you know we need to professionalism in this whole thing that's why i'm also very wanting very much to put a facilitator who has no teaching on what the matters are but to keep the meetings moving on and make sure that we follow what needs to be done and that professional facilitator on undoes is conductor of the meeting and that's all that person to us so that's about talk about a little bit more in depth but right now i want to just to see if my having day levin members of representing every district into a large wooden converse more or less what you would like to see as far as the media is concerned there's more to be discussed mr guzman so are you ok with that just to set up well i can get a reserve because i don't know what their criteria is  the i'm reasonably comfortable with it and i would also just to add to what you mentioned the thought was that all council members would be non voting members of the committee so that when the people come in from my a or other resource people that we can go and attend without any kind of sunshine laws by lation and i would also suggest as you just mentioned that we make the all the members of the casa government commission not voting members as well so that they can come in and take part and get the same exposure as the committee members and then the council members no i have no problem with that do you any of you have a problem with what mr way has suggested in what we're suggesting as adding all of us non voting members and also the cost to government as non voting members so that they can attend any of the special presentations brought in by the outside groups so that we have a better understanding what's going on thank you very much chair i have no problem with you know the involvement i just want to make sure that if this is going to be a citizen community citizen ribbon committee that's what it is and you know as non voting members and we attend our meetings where we're not voting members our members are very generous and courteous about letting us speak and you know participating i just want to make sure that we don't dominate the meetings absolutely thank you very much the way will make sure that they do stories that mr carroll you raise your hand this matter when we get to the area of whether we should incorporate that or not so my question is you know for the sake of movement and to get this i would like to entertain questions any other questions there's a coach i'd like to have a little bit more discussion with mr khushi on this if we're actual members of that committee then there's that and this committee i believe is supposed to go by the rules of the council is this committee going to be under the sunshine laws well that the the action will be with this body on charter amendments regardless where the recommendation comes from but i'm concerned about the makeup of this this so called standing committee because your council rules that definitely don't they're subject to the ethics and is subject to liabilities and responsibilities and you have to cover them in case they get hurt or attending these meetings said that as long as we waive the rules of the council then there's not a there's not a problem before me such a committee and i believe under robert's rules special committees can be formed by the body and whether they  one on housing or and so you know there were i believe our staff found five different committees that were formed virtually the same way they were doing this so  know make us better understand what's going on and i don't want to get hung up on one issue right does very second and if for any reason it would make it more expedient and more proper to take those two out i have no problem with taking them out what i'm saying and from what i've been told and what i understand that as non voting members we can just be there to understand and hear what goes on when these special presentations  made and that's what i was told and quorum was not an issue and missed by some brought up of i think of the point is very important that this is for in the doing this is for the process of education correct not going in and you know imposing our will on the on the committee so i am assuming that the be eventual chair of this committee would ok we're we're done you guys have had you guys can testify but we're happy to have you there for educational purposes but not not get involved in the process and like i also like the matter of non voting voting members in attendance for educational purposes you have a different take on this so would you like to express your take on this mr rauch a better way to introduce yourself david thank  background there was a time i think throughout the late ninety's most notably when the council had a habit of creating special committees be council level or sub committees at the committee level to study various issues in most cases those bodies were composed of both council members and members of the public and they were council one difference perhaps between now and then currently every action it's done by a council that has any substance is done by ordinance or resolution so in  that area there was action that was done and based county communications which are just letters basically that the council would review and sign off on so you know i think it may be accurate that corporation council didn't have it kasian to sign off on a resolution for instance establishing a standing committee for the council back in that era because no resolution was presented it again the action was taken in a different format just approving a piece of correspondence a letter that we label account a communication that was presented to the council's consideration and again at the committee level the subcommittees were deemed to be purely creatures of the committee so that was never sent up to the council for approval so again there was no resolution that would have pretty been presented to the corporation council for approval and i don't recall objections at that time to the nature of having an advisory committee that was again composed of both counts members and members of the public and having that entity  typically will have a corporation council and a staff member where's all that coming from thank you mr chair well we we haven't budgeted for an effective ten standing committee in office and council services but we would take on the responsibility of ensuring compliance with the sunshine law and other old laws and provide the research list to just call secretarial clerical system so we would  have to find the money somewhere in the legislative budget and we haven't done an estimate on exactly what that would cost but i don't believe that would be to such a degree that we couldn't afford to do we just have to defer certain expenditures for budget matters maybe told the next fiscal year if we had to take on the responsibility of staff in a new comm services and we're also under the a b c limitation so i think if we're going to do this somebody be better be working on a budget amendment thank you the slightest bit concerned but i'm comfortable that we have the ability to establish special committees with the waiver the rules i think we have the ability to make those six that council members may participate as non voting members of this special committee so we have consensus to that consensus and number seven mr chair i mean what's the sense i am having you know while i like participation and i think we all want to go and i think most of us will go because you know this is a big deal it is a big deal i'm like you know you're either at the table or on the menu so i like to go educational process i don't think we'll be moving around from county combine into our lives that's where we want representation from neighboring districts once we get it done and then we go out we would never the proposal comes and then that we different i don't think we need to escort them at that point in time because we've they've come up with their propulsion we haven't decided yet to india the thing is we're going to be broadcasting all of this because i think that's very essential and i think ready to make the final proposal i can do that also so i leave it open mr white and just for clarification i think it's i don't know if i'm you going to get close  i'm pretty damn close to my intent for putting this in is to allow us to attend and be sitting in the in the gallery and same thing with the cost of government commission members so that we can hear the presentations it's not to be on the floor participate in it's not i don't want this to be construed as i was happy to find travel for eighteen extra people to either venue should we choose to go with the committee so it may be simpler if we don't do it and we could you know those of us who want to attend can attend we just write the requisite report and the cost of government can do the same thing i don't want to make this any more difficult than necessary so you know i'm i'm happy to withdraw my motion and we just simply if we if more than five  we could be read a report or we're on the same thing where the cost of government commission missed by so i think it just to prolong this a little bit more you know you can really get into semantics when you do this kind of what you call  scripting but anyway i think the word participate you know like mr white in my mind i don't mind at all of everybody going but kind of sitting in the in the gallery listening and not a great table you know kind of participating in everything that's with this correspondence from the from mr wong of cooperation council because the recommendation is for us to do establish a take as opposed to setting up this special committee so where do i want this to go i don't know all because yeah you've got two legal sides of it but the end result is  s you do specific question with the verbiage that has been put up on the board we strictly ten not participate but at ten would this fall more into the lines of what we've been discussing as far as being there but not being a part of we're there for educational purposes specifically and  i was going at a higher level in that if this whole resolution goes through as you know as we must and we did we form this committee and we staff it with our staff you and to all of you this is my recommendation i'd like to delete six and seven entirely and just see if you want to you can you don't you don't i don't think i'm going to make a big issue of it and so with my facilitate the committee functions and again to me this is really important to keep the whole ball moving i've been a part of those i've seen and done very well especially when you get a professional on knows what she  for clarification yes i think it might be appropriate to leave that as they may in case there's somebody that gets name to the committee that has those skills we don't need to but i also want somebody who's named to the com voting member right non voting member or or somebody so you're not saying that this is got to be a paid position but i do we have to give some money for somebody if they're professional i believe they're mean mr white to be so they can move things along i hope you understand what i'm trying to get to is very important other than that one of the paedo not be i hope we can find somebody to help us but if not maybe something that's reasonable and whatever and we could set limits on how much and whatever you know i don't have a problem with a recommendation i think i would just be more comfortable with using the word me and sort of shell well again the mead then maybe turn lead on to having somebody else do it and not be the question is was that was when should we have the words shall retaining non voting facilitate it organize manage and facilitate the committee meeting for me there's we could facilitate and move it along i don't why expedient but you go ahead mr guzman you know the where the way i read it is that you shall retain yes right yes are we discussing i mean i know this is a council committee but you know there is a and ministration has twenty five hundred employees that might have some information that would be very important so is it are because if you haven't really worked in this it's interesting the perception public has about how old government works and it's not a very favorable one i'd like to have both sides you know i want somebody to say without a mar this would happen with america this happens this but at the piven head you know they bring real life experience so we definitely want to have some people who have done this i don't know if we necessarily want to have people that are actively employed right now because then you might have conflicts but you know people that have served in no i think are a good idea before i get here yes we need criteria but i've been seeing here as the fellow i believe really trying to digest the letter especially from mr khushi and his comments and kind of getting back to standard standing committee versus a tag and i think in the general sense can we still get the outcome of what we're looking you know out of this standing committee out of t i guess the question the million dollar question can we get the same results with it teague versus a special committee and so i'm going to give you the opportunity to address that because we've discussed about i want to give you the opportunity to address it the reason i don't favor a tig is a it's my understanding that it can only be made up of council members and that the deep public participation would be limited to them being called in as a resource people final decision so let somebody challenge a recommendation because that is then going to come back to the council the council is going to massage it the way we always massage things and that's when the final decision will be made until then it's a recommendation and nothing more we're getting are not over something i don't think it is terribly worrisome how many how many times of actions have been challenged and when and when the rules if we waive our rules that mob or robert's rules prevail and we can move ahead and form a special committee with or without council members and i had put down for three hundred sixty five i was interested in what mr meir put forward a couple of words but open to discussion you know i think to make sure whatever is done is given enough time to do it right if a facility here can move this along and get it and you get on the ballot for which someone i want right away i got no problem with that and it ain't me personally baby it's days and that we add a clause that says that that deadline can be extended by counsel in the form of a resolution implied i mean if you want to i'm not going to put it in that's just what i stated on the record what my motion is if you want to make an amendment to my motion i got a second by mr couch i think the next procedure further discussion and is there any further discussion to make an amendment to my motion i would just point out that he will be in budget session in a lot of this whole month of april and the number four to read as follows that the special committee shall regularly meet at a public location or at public locations period not when feasible or anything else you want to call public locations as public locations could be the public library could be the public whatever anything is designated as public but leaving in and other public creations on yeah it's as maui more so that the special committee shall regularly me at public locations on ny excuse me do you need to add something where it can be broadcast sometimes is that was my second comment if were in budget all this time a cock is going to received i think i've already we do and on my feelings about this and i think these meetings have to be broadcast i don't care whether they taped and broadcast later or a live broadcast but they have me recorded so the public can watch like the way it's presented right there yes i think it can be covered like this but we need to have this in the minutes i wanted recorded ok so day when we check back we can see this was the deal ok no no that's our lot wanted to make sure that it was put in there that it has to be we courted and or televised or broadcast because we agreed to that very early in the process and i want that change  in addition to maui it can be interpreted has to lead to an equally on all three islands and i know you had mentioned that once the recommendation is is  to take it to the other islands for budgetary standpoint i think i would be more comfortable if we said that public locations and broadcast shall be made available should the districts that they would be just like to try to commission that they would be afforded the opportunity to come in and be a part of the meeting but the interactive communication would be those who want to testify on any particular subject matter and that's where i was trying to go with that particular point yes mr culture thank you and i kind of want this on the record so that if somebody goes back and challenges my concern with broadcast shall be made available is that if  for whatever reason i can't be there does that mean then we have to provide video crew and sound and then have the tape sent to or the disc sent to or i want to be very careful that we're not if they can't show up in the meetings council whereas here you know if they can show up or something happens we just move on and work and do our work anyway so that  and we want to spend some money i think we've agreed upon that but to what extent maybe you're the big issue right so yeah i'd like to as a point of personal if they can we take our afternoon break and while we're on it maybe staff can come up with only if you like to move to number four and five to read as follows that this special committee shall regularly meet at public locations throughout the county and number five that each special committee meeting  cast and the recording shall be made available to the public within two days of the meeting i second mr chair with a copy out that we remember everything below because that would have changed number five of the old number five  contract and whoever does the recording generally can get it done within minutes so as far as who reinforces it that's i mean who enforces it now it's one of those things that  restricting ourselves if a cop who can't show up or something happens with the cable are we do we have to cancel the beating that's my only concern mr bush ls you answered a question i'm sorry our own budget yet come down from our own budget see a most were asking for additional money ok any more questions in this area are all those in favor of number four and five as presented signify by help an awful lot doesn't it my most favorite subject matter again ladies and gentlemen and the viewing audience i really believe we need and i think i've heard this time in time out from others some expertise in some areas so they're weak in not we can be comfortable in under knowing that these people have a good concept of what trying to transpire i want the general public to be involved but i want somebody who understands maybe business dynamics the industry construction unions i try to put all of those out there but i'm not i don't want to be very specific something to do with tree farming which big part of our community all these other issues should have expertise in this area and some of our people the people that we are looking to bring up or open for discussion and i'll start with  what kind of expertise would you you know do you have any suggestions i like mystic carol's list i think it's very very important and it whoever we appoint to these committees to this committee is committed and has the is going to show up at that meeting so you know i notice that we have serious problems with clothes and so if you take this on i hope that you are going to be there ninety nine percent of the time because we are talking about a timetable and far and i think you know the the whole culture aspect to all of our and that's where it comes in that people from the area that are familiar  with different aspects but you know i hate to think that the whole mayan culture needs to be incorporated in decision making here too and kept at the forefront  among business and the hospitality nonprofit and all the other things that have been mentioned thus far so that wasn't really listed here originally but i think you know just to have someone with that kind of knowledge to that background is going to be helpful pretty much agree with everybody i want to your i think we need people who's been invested in the community for a long time you know we came from a board of supervisors structure in the sixty's so we have a sense of governance they went to the charter for i would say before we said look you know possible options to change the question should  be what are you trying to change and why what is driving this at this point in time i wasn't brought up two years ago four years ago before there was this class multiple times but he made for made it to where he had to be on the for me it was brought up of satisfaction of various levels of government that's true but i think we should note that while the federal government has a twenty percent approval rating state government criteria i'd also like to add numbers see in this or whites which would create as the members of the public with special expertise interests or experience in municipal governments public administration or business administration not going to put a spot as number six expertise i think we're covering about every base that there is on my way so i'm i'm fine and i think that that was my ultimate goal is to cover every piece that should make sure that know if you get somebody from hano who's a farmer we get a farmer because we can't lose the agricultural expert of our community so i go culture has to be a part of it is still a big part of our community and i don't want to lead that last so again not number six of mr white's proposal says that the special committee showed we composed of change to eleven voting members who are them our county residents such as the following a former elected officials at the county state or federal level be former officers of the county of maui including former members of the charter commission or see members of the public with special expertise the interest or experience in minutes of poor governance public administration or business that the special committee shall be composed to be leavened voting members who are maui county residents such as the following a former elected officials at the county state or federal level be former officers of the county of maui including former members of the charter commission or see members of the public with special expertise interest or experience in municipal governance public administration or business administration with membership seats allotted to each of the voting districts forget why we're trying to you know have to say prince cool he'll create a local government during the territory or days and that's what we're based up and outs because the local local the people themselves the community have to have their voice in there so it can have all the expertise but if you don't have the they're not zero or the part that really will speak on behalf of the community and maybe because i come from the rural area but am i here at the same wave over all in mali it's representation of who we are you know i don't care if you came from the mainland or criteria we were all listening to this discussion we're all here and now there were the ones going to be giving the nominations and the voting rights so do we even need to put any kind of requirements of qualifications in here we all know what we're trying to get and we all have a chance to vote on it when we come up with the name so do we even need to have any of that in there was you me baby  experience in municipal governments government public administration or business administration i would like to get in there and i think what miss credibility is trying to express and it's very difficult to capture what he's talking about in words but i think we all understand that she wants to make sure that we have people that are invested in the community know the community represented community what about something like community involvement or you know experienc but we're going to come up with whatever the applicants can put in why they feel they're qualified in looking at this and if we talking about efficiency of government to meet a number one is the financial the financial data person can can do the comparative studies other than you know what i think about serving on the charter commission i don't believe you know you put in your application and those who's elected you look at what you bring to detail as far as representation of your community you know no matter how you look at it all nine of us spending years to try and define agriculture you can't define agriculture you can't define what expertise is necessary we're all here it's our responsibility to determine who those people will be and whether or not they have what we feel is their discussion in just leaving it now with this entire package the way he is and i'm sorry you know i may be a little church in point but you know you tell me go east and then now we go west and i understand i've gone with the full and i just want to make sure that you all who is going to nominate these people and eventually how is it going to be confirmed we each going to bring a couple names and we'll sit down together and discuss and approve or well what is the next step because we need to get those people well the next step after we approve this step then i can tell you what the next step will be and she what you think about that ok all right any more changes or any more on this whole aspect so the question is the way it's written now is that we would not be able to if we felt somebody had qualification was outside our district we had to a large but that preferably from your district that you feel that you'd really like to see on this and a third name that could be useful at large and or if that person comes from the district if the first two were and were out in the not acceptable i don't feel what we're to have too many problems with acceptability by all of them because i think we respect each other's opinions of people from our districts but i think that's the way i would like to do it i was going to do it on wednesday at one thirty i was going to call research this reading and ask everybody to have to have left a motion maybe we need a motion to accept this outline template for this i would be happy to make that motion provided we all get a and it'll be a shock for everybody here this but we all get a printed copy so we can see it so i know i will get you a objections i would like to defer this matter to a winge the one thirty and this chamber so that the names can be brought forth to be put in so that the final version of the resolution would be inclusive of the names we will recess until wednesday one thirty in this chamber my question is will all of you be available on wednesday because there was because of mister carroll's generosity he cancelled his meaning so that slot became a fellow bill i know i am and i would hope all of you are that you can attend because this is going to be very crucial we are at that point where we've kind of resolved most of the issues now we need the names and just a couple of other housekeeping and we can bring this forward to the council in its entirety soul can we have this do we have consensus that all of you can i be here on one third name from your district it could be used a ok you know if you want to bring three means from your district and that one could be used at large that may be another option but because if the first name is not acceptable by the group maybe we have to move to number two so i want to give you an opportunity to have