ok thank you petitioner's the young is that in this case is a young woman from el salvador and she's a stablished that she's entitled to asylum as a member of a particular social group of salvadoran women and girls and she has an alternative source who proposed as well she is similarly in title to relief under the convention against torture because the board been able to get to aggregate the harm that she's suffered at the hands of cat claim or the asylum claim i really don't want to waive the argument this court to simply decide the matter however i would point out that in her doma which i think is the case of the circuit as well several years ago in which the court remained it to consider whether it's so that it's a class of women in guatemala could be a particular social group we have a similar factual record in this case broad as women in el salvador is that does that mean that all women in el salvador would be entitled to asylum in the united states if we were to recognize that group or does that mean that that any woman in that class who feels that she's been persecuted by m s thirteen or claim besides the social grouping cognize will the applicant has to have suffered persecution or a well founded fear of persecution something that's quite well established on the record in this case and that  el salvador so that would mean that any woman who has been raped or mistreated another victim of even domestic violence might have a sound asylum claim in the united states it's possible of course that's the fact factual determination chased by chase but i'm but yes that that is a possibility now that this court has been quite clear including and perdomo that the size of the social group does not preclude it from being caught will so we have had a number of cases from this court and from other circuits indicating that gender plus nationality chan being a social group are domo the two cases issue just a few weeks ago to fill and yes or no so i'd also point out that that matter is discussed yet mohamed and his song teases discussing female genital mutilation in both of those cases there was a so i think those cases those three including these two the two new ones from august th are the keys to consider in this case i'd also point in to some detailed analysis  reynoso considering the question of whether gender plus nationality could be nice simple as a social group and remain and in the court there compared that class to a class of all left handed i'm sorry i think my mike was muted there i can't see anything indicating he's reconnecting other than that lasts as soon as i mentioned that he do so explanation why you can't use video technology but i wish you would communicate to the people back to me just as that it would be helpful if you would join the cause and use the same technology that everyone group is as mr even argues all women el salvador then how could how could you how could you fail to follow to fall into that particular social group here when she was violence sure but how many how many men are being gang raped and el salvador's any evidence on the record on that one your honor that then how then how can we say how can the government take the position that her gender was not there were the reason that she was raped or or a reason a stand to reason that she was right i think you know the know if the gang if the gang is exterminating women at any rate and then by threatening something else beatings or or something or something else then it would still be possible to say that that gender was one of the reasons for which she was for which she was raped you know but i think you know i think the population is targeted arts and you know so because of some of the things that will council if i'm going to ask you to assume from this question that that our gender was  reason why she was was what was right is does the government have a position on the possibility of a particular social group being all women and girls in el salvador specifically raised the issue that the hater of the salvadoran doctors was a bases of the torture claim but i don't see that that was addressed by the that would be illegal again isn't that something that the board gets to examine in the st instance i don't i don't think things through in this case are on their plate because you know there's this idea that rape is motivated by sexual desire and it's well established including in all levy a case cited in our brief scene that rape is a crime of violence and domination it's not primarily about sexual desire so i think to be little the harm suffered by mr and co in this case by referring to it simply as as a sex crime diminishes what she  adopts the decision of the immigration court as happens here this court sits in review both the p r i and the immigration judge's decision in this case the immigration judge was somewhat equi did indicate at one point in the in his oral decision that yes gender and that of course we say gender plus nationality but if gender could be a cognizable social group that you would conclude enco was persecuted on account of that social group that that her gender was a significant factor motivating factor to you the desire of the gangs to show domination  discovery no your honor we think that the remedy is that's a record is appropriate do you have anything in the record that reflects conversations that miss morongo had with doctors or that anything that would show that the doctors that the doctors intent i think the record shows what the doctors intended to do that they intended to restrain her because they were concerned that she may have an abortion or she think commit suicide and and what's the evidence what's the evidence for that i read her testimony yet that that is i believe so now yet that she talks about that but she's also testified that she was the data that she was the data how did she know what the motivation of the doctors was obviously well it's what she dated for five months or three months and then they went back twice a week wednesdays and saturdays yet for two for another for another two months it was using the same doctors i don't know that the record reflects that  ok so how does she know what the motivation of the doctors was during the st three months well in addition to her discussions with the hospital after the fact when they told her that she was pregnant and she asked or asked why she hadn't been told that she was pregnant that she received this answer i'd also point out that the country to receive the answer from oz ministre her a nurse and a doctor i don't recall the answer to that question  i mean if the record if the record is complete i'd have to wonder what it is that the board is supposed to do with this but this record how can it possibly find a cat claim on that record when she has no evidence of any individual doctor having said yeah we said david you in order to prevent you from having an abortion for no other reason i would appoint are you know addition to ms morocco's testimony i would point to court the country conditions and some record which is quite extensive and which the board a catholic country not not not a not a surprising development it actually is a relatively recent development it wasn't true that abortion was illegal in all instances until