the council's committee on budget and financial come to order this is their first meeting on the review of the fiscal year two thousand and sixteen budget proposal today president devices around courtesy of keeping our equipment on either vibration or off mode as posted you will have three minutes and three minutes only to give your testimony please be concise you have written testimony please submit that we shall also be happy to receive that as part of the committee's record state your name if you represent an organization as you share that with us also we shall start with the chambers and then move to our district offices to take comments for today's meeting so at this time we'll call up alex when you're ready please let's begin good morning chair county council and members of the public my name is alex howler and i'm a financial analyst i believe that the best use of our taxpayer dollars is to allocate twenty thousand dollars to hire professor larry gorman who has a ph d in finance to teach our representatives a crash course intro to finance class our representatives need to understand theories of finance such as time value of money discount rates and risk and this risk is not the risk you're thinking of as something called it a zero sum craddick risk and it could be eliminated and reduced with the diversified portfolio if our representatives understood time value of money they would know which projects to undertake and which projects to eliminate they would know how to put taxpayer dollars to best use let's our representatives so they can reduce our risk and put our state back on track you move a district thirteen mahalo thank you for your just a moonie any questions for gentleman on his testimony this morning and every night we appreciate your presence and you just wanted michelle good morning my name is michelle and the site director of cali akio in china good morning chair and good morning i'm here i don't have a speech written my purpose here today hollyhock as an organization and a vital part of the community here on mali there's no secret about our homeless population and some of the struggles that they're going through and i've spent quite a few years working with from many different you know areas and the purpose and outcomes of this organization gives tamale is vital to any and all financial support that they get is well used it goes to help the clients the outreach the people who work there to support these clients this organization is always in need and always deserving of any assistance and help their purpose is proven thank you thank you for your testimony members any questions to the gentlewoman on her testimony everyone thank you for being here thank you for ten years four years as a seal many years serving the homeless people here on my i've seen many changes and this last year has been the best year for kako with our new director in place we're moving in a positive direction with great changes in positive changes and improving of the program to be the for the best interests of the clients as well has the staff we thank you all for all the years of funding and serving serving  and i'm here to ask to continue serving in providing that financial support in order for us to continue doing what we do in servicing the homeless population here on ma we once again thank you and up to each and every one of you thank you any questions for the lady on her testimony members thank you very much to prevent beans from happening so we can move forward in life and again with new state director i believe that this place can move forward in a positive note  we're in need of financial and not only for the clients that live there now but for the clients to come in without you know financial support there no better way we could serve the people of maui and take care of the homeless that's going on there's a lot of people that come and go and it's what they do with their time there that count and i believe that with the support of their staff and our hard work as our part everybody can move forward and become something that they want to honest i came from treatment and so i was a murray covering addict and so me going into shelter i was able i've been there for about a year and a half now and being there i was able to build my recovery i have four beautiful children  they able to reunite with my children under one roof with also now my husband and i you know i got so much support from every angle that i needed help and with my life with my addiction with my parenting with just going on h patricia this is what you do this do this you know just keep me on the right track i was able to build my foundation to be able to go ok ready let's do this not now i feel confidant to the world again because i know i can make it you know with the support and help that i have got from the staff of the shelter and  you know it's not just for me i'm a person i'm a mother of child like i said for children in the shelter is there for my kids to within tutoring kids group you know there's the support my kids they get them all together interact with the kids you know i know that's what matters is the kids too just not just us adults as children and i would like to see the shelter get more funding so they can help a family like mine when i go on you know because my time's coming up and i will be moving on my own next chapter life soul you know it's good to see just families building the building reuniting building their strong strength between each other and just you know what a family needs in yeah it's just the shelter is a great place to get on your feet if you really want to take it serious and the staff are there are awesome and thank you that's not to share thank you very much  you know what i prefer mr smith this morning i just prefer to speak three minutes on the overall budget the church does intend to have a special meeting for kept good improvement projects only so i would ask if you would consider giving your comments on the c p when we bring up specifically considerations i'll continue on on the three minutes that you're allowed to me but i will i will just say for the record that consideration this is a very serious time in dysfunction if you read them all in news you have a solid waste coming back again and again all this stuff so it's important to realize that you have to understand the decades ago we started this program budget you have to understand and i'm going to submit this for the record copy from the charter commission which says basically that in fact it's a change to nine point i guess it's ten and it says basically that there was a clarification of the appropriation changes within the executive branch and initiated by the mayor and the council ok each branch should have the opportunity to propose to propose ok changes for the legislator that means you have to come through this council that means that program budgeting is not based upon our charter that means when the mayor forward and you have eighty one people eighty one people getting a notice are going to be discharged or laid off in the news that says that all right so there has to be something you guys have to get involved prosecuting attorney for people come here and cry to you there's abuse there something's going on they see they're experiencing there's nobody but they come here for the has to be within this budget some protection and i'm suggesting that there be changes made to the general budget provisions and first change would be it be changed from a general and specific restriction that the title should be changed i have written here or proposed amendment to that which would say basically any retaliation by reallocation and moving around has to come to the council for approval by resolution that's basically what it says but it takes the game and it puts it into a principle mo ok instead of a results oriented home and we need to do that because you guys got up with the brakes on this regime it's too much going on how many other departments are going through this this budget i right should be looking at the managing director our charter says basically the managing director manages the budget you shouldn't be asking god knows and a tay what's going on because they don't manage it where is he where is he and he's the one that has the policy thank you so much for your time thank you any questions for the gentleman on the testimony he has presented this morning i'm going to submit this yes we'll be happy to receive it this is me there's two two items one is this proposed amendment in the minutes and the other is just a single copy but is in the lives of many people that i've witnessed come and go in this place the time that i've been there they have many extensive programs that really help us out they help they provide the daycare that we need or the childcare that we might need they have the classes to help us with the financing and budgeting of our own of our own lives so that this way when we when we leave there and we move forward into our next phase of life that we'll be able to be successful and not repeat whatever mistakes we made that got us there to begin with if they don't have the funding that they need to keep this operation going what's going to happen to those that fall short on maui because this is really the only program that that really supports our homeless people and people that are going through these problems and without them there's really no one else for anyone to look at and that would leave a lot more people hopeless it would leave a lot more families distraught and i would hope that you would hear us and give them what they need so they can continue these operations to help the families here thank you thank you any questions for the levy on her testimony members having then thank you for being here  levy i just i'm a client and i've been there over a year and in my recovery coming from rehab and then coming to the shelter they've given me a roof over my had the capabilities of finding a great job that i've been there almost two years now and without the support and understanding of the staff and having a roof over my head i wouldn't be here today where i'm at so i just want to say thank you to the staff and to everyone that has become family there and without them i would not be the same so i think the funding and everything that can be given to them should be so thank you thank you any questions for the levy members thank you for being here this morning d today i think you guys should give them the funding you need to help many families thank you thank you for being a disappointing any questions for the levy members thank you for making the time this morning to join us richard shelter i've been there close to a year now before that i just had a very bad stroke of luck and i had nowhere to turn i didn't know where to go and somebody told me to go over there and see if i can get in over there and i went there and since i've been there they've reached out to me and they've helped me they have good programs that that help us basically our budget our finances they they help push us to to look for jobs  and get financially set and without them i probably would have still been on the streets and probably when he would be doing as well as i am today all the support and the help for the shelter is really needed and it could help a lot of people out there if you think you any questions for the gentleman on his disability thank you for making the thing to be here antoinette p there were cockroaches running around and rats up in the ceiling and the people that cared about kali ah kayla still found a place for the people that needed it the way it's advanced in the last twenty five years is just amazing and i care about it primarily because i was a child of abusive alcoholic and if we had had a place like that to go where we got people caring about us and a place to live on a regular basis it would have been the most wonderful thing in the world i just hope and i understand that some of the funding that you're concerned about is for repairing the housing you know all this money went into building what's nice is that people can come in and get help and then they can go on to a more permanent housing or you know subsidized housing and i understand that's where some of these funds need to go and god bless us if we put the money into building it and i'm sure we had federal funds involved in that too then you know we sure should take care of it because it's just a great thing i'm so proud of us for having thank you thank you any questions for the least of the value system only members thank you very much for being here next   you know they've helped me tremendously i came from prison and you know unfortunately there's not a lot of programs on maui that the  to and you know that's a structured environment for us and you know of course when we come out of prison you know it's a big shock and you know it's such a wonderful program because you know it helps you reintegrate back into society and you know i've heard a lot of you know people share so far about you know it teaches us how you know budgeting they offer you know money management  substance abuse program and i've been to a program before and i've actually learned a little bit more there than i have and another program you know  just i mean i mean like you know the daycare services they offer i've heard pretty much everybody you know say about the same thing i would like to say and it's just it's a phenomenal program it's really good the staff there is incredible they're very non judge mental you know they're willing to help and you know with all the funding and stuff you know like other people have said you know there be a lot of homeless people on the street and unfortunately molly doesn't have a lot like qana lulu has you know and pretty much that's the last place to go where you can help and learn how to pay brandon pretty much just be a productive member of society today and you know if anybody should get  i think that the shelter the resource center they could really use it you know to help more people like all of us that live there and been there and i would just like to see think you for having me come and you know speak for them it's an awesome program thank you thank you for being here this morning any questions for levy every now and thank you for long time lived here thirty six years i'm very proud to be a citizen and living here i've been on the board of the hollyhock eola almost since the day it was founded by a priest and a few other interested people i've seen a lot of changes we got one hundred thousand dollars grant at one time to start it it wasn't a grant it was a loan from the catholic church and that loan was forgiven we transitioned into an independent nonprofit in order to better serve the people that needed the services that we provided our goal and our mission is to get out of the cycle of homelessness and i'm not a historian i'm not trying to be one i would like to share some of my perception and also of what's happened in the last quarter century with this organization but seven years ago we had joel dowd write history of the first twenty five years that was documented and done professional style i believe most of you who were around at that time in the government i've seen copies of it i would i reviewed it again yesterday just to enhance my memory some of the things that come out of it in my perception is the housing department looked at what we were doing and said wow you get more bang for the buck than we know how to get they supported this the government both the executive council member side the side of it were very supportive of us and for our mission and our progress  we called it a private public organization required both sides to make it work you the county and the council allowed us to gave us a leases for our land and suggested that we do a number of buildings after we built our first resource center on private funds so built with county found the money we have over fifty buildings maybe it's more than that three sites and we treat at least one percent of the population of maui we consider them are our residents the police department will tell you crime is reduced because of it the education department will tell you that we provide a solid infrastructure in a home base for many children over half of our people are probably under the age of seventy and i'm not sure of the statistics you heard the lady talk about the health the childcare center in the all runs it our facilities are just like any other facilities they were built to meet county codes and specifications but now  just like condominiums that were built to those same specifications three minutes money is required for maintenance and upkeep we haven't been able to have that kind of money available we your testimony this morning and be sheeted over to the hot office and asked once more miss lono is there anyone wishing to provide testimony this morning no one waiting thank you mr and and is anyone wishing to provide testimony deal with and so we are making some adjustments specific regarding the budget overview from the budget director that we show scheduled that for another time in the near future and making the required for a natural responsible adults ments so we have still june tenth on or before that date where we are required by the charter to at this time our committee has scheduled sixteen deliberation meetings to review the proposed budget with appropriate departments eight district meetings throughout the county and five meetings to make decisions on what to recommend to the in the final county budget the council besides this coming may also hold up to four public hearings and two council meetings to complete its work on the budget i was just also no certification of real property tax to this chair and i curve tentatively scheduled may put twenty for the discussion on the real property tax so in advents of all the work we will all be doing i want to thank you at this time for that good hard work food in your staff's participation and let me just give you some few comments on how i am going to be reviewing any they're with tell us why they got what they got last year we for that even explain what they need for this coming fiscal year we are on zero based budgeting you don't explain it you don't justify you won't get it with the exception of office of economic development and the department of housing and human concern grants will be scheduling that separately from the rest of the respective department review the review of c i p's will be held in separate discussions from the operational budget and at this time i am currently scheduling april fourteen fifteen and sixteen for a c have also set aside april eighth at this time to review the changes changes to appendix b rates and fees and with the exception of real property tax i intend to schedule each department would propose changes to discuss their recommendations if department has been scheduled and i will try and keep us on track with the schedule as we have set for this committee when you have received copies where are you p schedules have been distributed by staff via email and as we made those adjustments we will continue to update the calendar for all the apartments as well as your staffs i am asking that all communications of any type from members to the administration on this budget proposal be directed through the committee and as we are all aware of due to the recent decision in the kind of time during the meeting for follow up and issue a compile them if we have additional questions please advise the church do an open session and i would request that you consider submitting your questions writing so we're in need of making more work to do the work i would like to remind the members that there is limiting limited time available to review and evaluate this proposal for two thousand and sixteen would ask that i would like to start on time every day if we can complete the day's requirements earlier than anticipated or planned we shall make those appropriate adjustments and retire earlier during th staff work with trying to catch up with us we should be able to assist as best we can and if you are aware of some absences i would ask if you would please share that so we can ensure a quorum to conduct the business of the committee regarding the budget details will utilize the rams their version of the propose appendix b rates and fees and we deal with that and let's see what else oh yes i will i wanted to share that each and every one of you will have an opportunity to recommend changes to the committee chair that will be proposal so we will only be dealing with two documents eventually  not within the charter will be prioritized accordingly and i would just say sure few things that the church or ask us to consider in the review of the budget nineteen it is that declared to be the policy of this county to promote economy efficiency and improve service in the transaction of public business under th nonmember to eliminating duplications and overlapping of services activity and functions consolidating services activities and for instance of similar nature and finally if we deem appropriate on cutting i would not agree with them as projections on revenues he's my opinion that this economy of ours is not where we would like it to be yet i have enough comments from the private sector that we are not at that level where we can double digit considerations and i think the business sector would support this type of budget proposal so i can tell you that i am very much going to look at the cash i'm going to be very hesitant in borrowing whatever cash i will look at priorities like unfunded liabilities debt service core requirements of core departments and other than that everything else for me is on the chopping block including projects  transfers as we've done in the pas very good this morning we will be starting with the department of finance that and again you're the first guy so you're like best case you're breaking the ice for all the other departments mr walker so we will work with you and i think at this point in time you with service both internal and external customers our general departmental goals are to provide excellent customer service to increase efficiency in operations and to be compliant with all existing laws we are comprised of  five different divisions and as you'll maybe have noticed already this budget proposal suggests that the budget office be realigned in and report to the finance department versus the mayor as it does currently but we currently have six programs our real property assessment division assesses all real property in the county and is the basis for real property tax structure our real property taxes are the largest revenue contributor to the county our accounts division pays all the all of the county bills vides all of the financial reporting the kaffir and sing a lot of which you were listening to yesterday as well as other information provides all payroll for all of the counties employees our purchasing division handles the cumin of all goods and services from the county for fire trucks to the pens we use every day they also coordinate all contracts for goods and services in the county our treasury program manages the cash flow for the county manages its investments and the issuance of its debt and also collects all of the real property taxes for that on behalf of the county at the end of the day  funding level to church will determine the level of service our various divisions can provide to both its internal and external customers  knowing that if you don't get you don't ask our our budget this year requests a number of onetime pro creation zz as well as some additional staffing among other things excluding the impact of the proposed budget office  year's budget request asks for a total finance department budget increase of about nine hundred eighty thousand or a or a nine point nine increase over last year's budget and the increase of six staff the finance department i don't believe is wasteful again i think we look for ways to be efficient to deliver  better service and i have with me today the the administrators of the various divisions within the finance department there or here were willing and able to answer any questions you may have about our department recently oh why don't you bring up who's going to speak on the administration program i will keep why don't you give us the breakdown of your a b c accounts for the administration program perspective  as far as operations we are requesting in professional services airfare transportation and registration and training fees a total of nine thousand dollars between those three that basic basic additional funding is to be used to assess the new internal control section that reports to the administration program to get up to speed as relates to internal controls we are hopeful of they'll be able be able to tend a couple of different conferences this year next fiscal year as well as potentially visit some other government entities that have these types of internal control positions within their organizations yes these type of programs like risk management your juries you read you vision this tells us nothing what kind of budget is there zero zero zero zero zero zero zero risk management has moved to corporation council therefore there's no budget amount and the apartment of finance and the treasury division has broken off into its own program and so i think we'll find their program  few pages into the people so we have still having this in this area to give us the historical data for fiscal thirteen and fourteen very good at least we know what we don't want anything in admin section members mr white are we going to be focusing on pretty picture book or the details i would rather you want to go back and forth i think the details this critical because that's where there will always sides but if we're moving to the administration program in the details i do have a question on page six dash seven halfway down the page professional services increase of three thousand dollars and the comment is additional funding to accelerate completion of a project to electronically document critical process and procedure manuals for various divisions could you explain what that this is and how long it's been going on it's in its infancy not that long we are in our new internal control section is is trying to their goal is to first within the department of finance make sure that all our policies and procedures are documented and what we want to do is put them on the website but put them in a location where they can be viewed by other people depending on their security level we want the goal is to move outside of finance once finance is completed and and assist other departments in doing the same and documenting their policies  procedures from an internal control perspective we had found a county on the mainland king county in washington actually had a really great way of doing this and we wanted to replicate it our i people weren't able to do that and i believe our internal control section found a vendor that was able to assist them in and i and i don't have that exactly but the design and implementation of that type archiving of these types of documents and that's extent of my knowledge of i can certainly get more information if you'd like it and you know how much of the sixty seven thousand dollars or i guess the new requests would be seventy thousand how much of that is for this particular program and what is the remainder of the professional services to cover most of the professional services money that we've spent to range of topics from customer service to communication how do you get along with others exciter and so it's it's basically training is just what it's for so much of the total is for the best documentation process i think it's just i don't know if they're using savings but i think it's just that three thousand dollars so you're talking of that line you have of the additional funnies to accelerate completion of the project so it indicates that  i don't have that figure i don't have that figure handy i'll get that for you ok can you tell us with a vet you are using a vendor or a consultant director walker i believe it's a consultant you know the name of the i don't have that handy i can get that yet thank you in the next line or a couple lines down there's an increase of increase in line  six to zero one airfare and transportation right what types of additional needs to do you and the director have for travel well this is really more for the internal control section i mean i that our names are listed but i  on one trip here i learned the same one this year the same when i went to last year which is the j f way this is really more for the internal control section who has identified a couple of different seminars on internal controls that is kind of mention in my opening remarks are help them get up to speed they're a brand new division and they certainly have some good ideas but going out to see how others do it and what the best practices are would be very helpful i believe ok would help if it was a little more a little clear right thank you thank you i would be lying right below professional services the lying right before professional services that's a tremendous jump considering cell phones services i've been very competitive but what is that for and it doesn't have an explanation on the second fine one but i don't know if that was the if that's just sort of been the number that's been adopted over the years and it just hasn't changed to reflect the actual that and this and all of a sudden you get a tremendous increase my question again was to i won't go any further but there's others in here that there's no substantiation as far as the explanation for change what do we have an explanation for the change if there's no substantiation put in there i guess that's my question and you know again you have a line there to put that for us to at least get a basic understanding and that's all i'm asking you know if you're going to do that we have a better understanding so i don't have to ask that question why i can't and i'm sorry if i came across a little harder a little it's frustrating because again that's just one of many if you want to be so going through the list i can but i don't want to do that but i think that's something that the apartments and when you get prepared a budget let's put the explanation let's put the rationale for what you need so that we understand what you're asking for instead of spending all this time asking you what this means so that's all i have to say for that and i'll leave it alone from there just say the other services where it says fifteen hundred in the first column on the left that's last year this current year's adopted budget the proposed is on the far right hand site correct so i'm guessing that the the forty five hundred increase was justified last year and you're doing a zero across so you're not increasing from last year's proposed budget or you know we're not that we're not we're not increasing from last year's adopted budget ok i was reading that wrong ok thank you so the question is whether we gave the right amount last year right that's what we want to know first right we don't start from the requests of how much more they want this year you have to defend why e that's why this smoking screens of continue to fiscal year fifteen budget amendments we are right now in fiscal year sixteen budget review right is ridiculous ten grand and then on the next page is for registration and training fees which is an additional eighty five hundred so that's you know over eight hundred thousand dollars worth of training after hearing our auditors yesterday i want to know the repeat i guess deficiencies a weaknesses that have been occurring are not going to and hopefully these training and you know outside learning how other municipalities operate are know affect us in a positive manner so moving from this year on out we're not going to kept these repeat weaknesses and deficiencies reoccurring so i mean it's almost twenty grand we're looking at hopefully that can be put to good use share in assisting this department in you know taking corrective action and not having to repeat again what we heard yesterday from this about this department  professional services mind i'm a little you know to your point here we're looking at how much money they need and so far this year  spent thirty four and they had twenty two thousand and cumbered says which means that they've got fifty seven thousand dollars left or eighty two percent of what we budgeted last year and we're already records of the way through the year i'm sorry that was services and so i understand they focus on training but it doesn't seem like we've been able to get around to doing as much as they had they had hoped to and then on travel they still have seventy five percent of the money left so i'd like mr walker to address the travel occurred yet you know how you know that doesn't address the the service service level professional services yeah i mean again the twenty two thousand you just you saw is just stuff we just booked to i mean i think we are hoping to spend the rest of the money by the end of the year and i guess we'll find out if we do we're talking about other types of training opportunities you know to the chairs point you need to have some specifics and if you don't know how you're going to spend it between now and the end of the year when you when you come here we need we need to have a pretty good understanding of how that money is going to be committed and if you don't have an understanding of what the commitment is for the next three months then i think we're you know we're likely to adjust the requests for next year understood and i you know i'm we're just trying to be fair would you got to be fair to us chuck and show that you understand what it is that you're planning to use the money for between now and then year with the specific i think this is very important i think is what makes our job hardest because we're doing something looking at lashes when we actually look at two years back you're looking at fourteen because you're not looking at this year we the year before and then last year we gave them so much money we don't know how much they spent i mean we have forms and we can dig up some of it but if you have seventy five percent of your budget left over which nobody and then you can't tell why you and how you going to spend it i agree with the chair what should we give you more right ok but all departments buyer beware if you want to use that term you're going to come in if you're going to expend money that you haven't at this point let us know why process today is our first day so i think it's really important that we kind of establish comfortable how we're going to go forward and i'm trying to make sure that i'm ok i hear comments about you haven't spent or you spend only so much or whatever if i can understand correctly what we have before us that is actually on the record would be second quarter expenditures because this is third quarter ends today that th will be a while until we actually had those figures recorded in some kind of report so what we're going to need is a director and our budget director and i hope he gets well really quick never wanted anybody to get recover so quickly obviously we have a poor guy here because he has so much in his head but you know we need to have that half a year and then we have a quarter that we're not going to be having and two were pretty much to the end of this because takes a while for this to be being courted so we need to have somebody who can come here and tell us about the third quarter in the fourth quarter so that we can have a better idea of what they're actually going to spend but looking at the first six months i agree is probably not that good because you only have for year and a lot of stuff could happen in the second part of the year i've experienced this myself having worked in finance for so long so i think it's legitimate i think it helps us make decisions and sometimes you know you put in ten thousand dollars and things don't go well and you don't use it maybe you use it for something else but we need to know and so i think the representatives that come have to be prepared otherwise it's going to be really hard for all of us using the same document so that we can understand each other's comments and recommendations and questions but i i totally agree with miss bice's comment that and mr victory you know that this is a very difficult process and it's made difficult because it ministration doesn't present us a forecast or they're going to end up this year they just come in and tell us what they want for next year they don't really tell us what they're using out of this year's fund so you know we're able to go in and look up some of it but it takes a lot of time to do that and that's it's unfortunate but that's that's the way the process goes and  that's that's what makes it really challenging because it's it's almost easter and this is the beginning of our easter egg hunt we must have been he that miscalculating or given the right information to make a better decision to adjust that and and we should make sure that tax base understands what they're paying for what they should expect and why we are going to approve what we are going to be recommending also requesting you as committee members to recommend whether that we should be changing the measurements gotcha all right that makes sense for us to be able to make that better decision thank you one really the salary stuff is more collective bargaining agreement stuff you will notice at the bottom we are we questing additional that is for a grants manager and a capital and fix assets analyst in the last forcing a lot it's beginning in two thousand and eleven that's as far as i went back we have had a significant finding or deficiency note noted related to the company's management timely reconciliation and accuracy of expenditure reporting for federal grants the two thousand and twelve single audit specific specifically recommended a centralized position to monitor federal program activities including compliance that the office of management and budget o m b circular a dash one three three suggests that a centralized position be established for any local government receiving federal financial assistance to oversee that government's compliance with federal program requirements additionally matrix consulting who recently completed a county zone b cost allocation plan report last year also recommended a grant manager as a way to further negotiate higher overhead rates allowable for reimbursement under grants in two thousand physical year two thousand and fourteen the county had a total of three hundred fifty eight grants of which two hundred forty eight were federal or federal passthrough grants there were reported in the single audit pages twelve through eighteen grant expenditures in physical year fourteen were approximately sixty one million dollars we believe strongly that accounting for this abstention amount of money accurately and ensuring that not only is the county being fully reimbursed for all of a political out of pocket expenditures but also that the county but also that the county is in compliance with all the reporting requirements for both single audit purposes is in our best interest and is necessary we believe that the best way to accomplish this is to take our external auditors suggestion in create a position to manage the reporting of these grant funds this position would also reach out to the various departments of the county that deal with grants to implement training and what is required from a compliance reporting perspective as well as  quarterly monitoring of the various grants in our minds the creation of this position is long overdue and we humbly ask for your support the capital and fixed asset analyst position which we would like to create  and as you know it was reported to you by external auditors in the past two physical years to completion and submission of the kaffir reports have been delayed one of the biggest contributing factors to these delays is due to the significant amount of time and resources needed to complete the construction work in progress schedules which includes detail analysis of the capital expenditures and reconciliation of the county's capital infix assets in the two thousand and fourteen single audit the auditors found a significant audit finding to the accounting for construction work in progress stating the following which is on page thirty of the single audit the condition the county in the department of water supply us prepared construction work in progress schedules to calculate the valid roll forward balance of ongoing projects and determine projects that were completed place in the service and capitalize as infrastructure we noted that projects were only properly accounted for when physical staff tracked down the respective project engineer for the contract this resulted in multiple instances where a project was not capitalized properly or timely and old projects that should have been  expensed were part of the roll forward balance from prior years the following were the conditions noted during the review a review of the construction work in progress schedules the county had a total of ninety two million in construction and project in progress carry forward from the prior year in the current year a review of the construction in progress projects of the county showed a total of three million sixteen thousand and sixty eight dollars and forty six hundred forty dollars of maintenance and repairs expenses on various projects there were included in the construction in progress balances that should have been expensed in the prior year these amounts were expensed in the current physical year again that was three million sixteen thousand six hundred forty eight dollars the department of water supply a total of thirty two point six million in construction and progress carried forward from the prior year in the current year we noted a total of nine hundred seventy thousand seven hundred  dollars of current construction in progress that should have been transferred out in capitalizes capital assets in the prior years the department of water supply will adjust these projects in the next fiscal year the effect according to the  auditor's construction work in progress was overstated while capital assets accumulated depreciation and depreciation expense were understated their recommendation the county and department watership supply s formal procedures to ensure that construction work in progress and projects placed in service are communicated timely by project engineers to the physical staff in order to properly capitalize and depreciate these assets in the appropriate accounting period the county should also established procedures to maintain and reconcile the construction and progress schedule throughout the year these procedures will also assist the county in completing the schedules required to time a close or prepare the count comprehensive annual financial report like grand revenues c a p projects are typically large dollar value projects and they can span many years and involve more complex accounting treatment in addition to water other departments like public works environmental management and parks also do large c a p projects so there are many players in the house division staff had an initial meeting on february eleventh to address the auditors findings on this particular based on these discussions the establishment of a formal policy and procedures requires a significant amount of time and resources once the policy and procedures have been developed at the time reporting and reconciliation of the spreadsheet are not a year end process rather an ongoing process route the year like the requested grant manager position in order for this implementation to be successful it requires a dedicated full time position to ensure that the procedures and policies established or be complied with by the departments and to maintain the system on a timely basis without the laying the calf or completion so that's that those are the two positions that the constitution is is asking for and i'm assuming they'll be some questions on that will be a lot of convincing for that start off with the entry schedule thirty and that's the eventual also know that you have different accounting system administrator responsibility as again last year as an example of things that i personally i participated in if they gave and leads to training sessions and to grant managers across the county and we also had some operational meetings and these are kind of on a high level and we talk about things like the super circular but implementation of that the standards how to clean for overhead and that kind of thing on a general level but the problems that the auditors were finding i think they mentioned that i yesterday also that these reports are to see for reports of the reimbursement reports things that are required only to be communicated into the grand tours which departments as an example are right now i think we had three grant managers in human concerns that are in transition and we have them all over the place now  these transitions are require a lot of retraining and they start a fight within the departments of themselves and they have these negotiations with the grand tours as far as specific or reporting requirements but then there are additional concerns i think i yesterday or the auditor had mentioned that although these apartment managers feel like only their reports  grade everything is of balance and it's flowing they're getting the money it still doesn't reconcile with the county's general ledger structure because they don't they're really understand that part the counties accounting structure and the reimbursement reporting is sort of like each grant that might be compared as to a small business it has assets and liabilities and revenues and expenses in the grant the managers are looking at these things they are pretty much and the knowledge a level of a checkbook and that's how they manage their programs exactly like the check book it's all cash on our books in the uk and the counties ledgers there are receiver bills and fund balances and transfers and overhead reimbursements and they don't get that that's the kind of thing that needs hand holding especially when there's a lot of transition within staffing at the departments and there are a lot  transition but throughout the year i think they need this kind of guidance and monitoring because the ground managers are not accountants and everybody can improve if we start learning from each other and that's what we want to do and be a house for the a so my understanding is if say what a department scuse me is requesting or drawdown from from the feds do they process their drawdown requests yes ok so and when they draw down requests is received is it received  as a revenue for your into your department and it's received so yes so it's received as a grant revenue what i'm trying to understand so say it say if it's a cost reimbursement grant and you allowed a thousand when it comes into your department it's not the department who actually inputs that so why is it a problem for that apartment as far as to understand because the checks are coming from your department and objects are being received by your department the grants people in say posing in human they request such i don't i mean everything's on line there's circular what they've got to do so i'm trying to understand what is it that when you expand and you receive that finance cannot keep up with that or i mean where does it earlier the actor department who is receiving the grant because it's every grant draw right as far as the processing that the recording of expenditures and revenues and that's not the problem because the departments all do that well the problem is we have some costs expended in june or fourteen and we don't receive the reimbursement until july that straddles the year the balancing that the auditors are looking for includes a receivables and it also includes the crew of receiver bills which the departments have no idea about so we need to have them educated and monitored i would because we can start to teach them and we are but they still make mistakes and they don't the record the receivables and these are grant departments supposed to have this responsibility because the departments are the ones that they go out they negotiate the grants they decide what kind of activity is going to be in the program how are the monies actually spent is their baby and accounting is there is to control their spending and make sure that they dot their i's and cross the t's so do you do you send  department's reports i mean do you have your print out reports that he could receive as far as what's in the system that he does not jive with with what you're looking for  are federal requirements as far as what the input online as far as whenever they're given your reports to defects or drop downs and the example and that i gave on the reactor program thirteen in the past couple weeks is mostly this problem in receiver bills so the staff from housing and human concerns was not able to identify these receivable transactions that had to be approved since of the departments they usually only record cash cash coming in cash going up but the auditors in order for them to close the books and record with the cash activity they need to see these receive bulls that are beating are recorded and the departments are not recording them and they this issue of how we doing the job description we need we need to change subjects groups in so that i marry department that is initiating the grant employ you can do what you need for finance requirements i think when you show job description no i don't think it's really the job description but as the auditors had identified is the recommendation for someone that understands the accounting needs and monitoring at  county wide level that needs to be put in place and it's not there it's so that's why the last four years of audits have the same finding that we need to have this individual that can monitor them submissive would you know one thing we are so auditors they were not able to respond yesterday was can you use a portion of the f informed on each of the grants and each of the grants were agencies state of fear have their own a negotiating stance on the reimbursement of overhead those super circulars says that there is a minimum of ten percent but that's not automatic so every agency homeland security is not a military or whatever on big comeback and they historically from other past many many decades i think of these grants that have a maturity into the state that they are in now have not really went for this kind of overhead and it's partially because the grant managers are negotiating these and you don't have a real good handle on the overhead i think that we can teach them and we need to monitor this but it's kind of limited as to how much of that we can do so the overhead is it's like a percentage allocation of direct cost it's not a specific dollar amount if we're negotiating a home grant or a section a grant it could be providing some amounts of overhead but then the overhead is applied to all kinds of stuff for a plane into the that position could it be a limited term appointment and neither one of them could could definitely say yes we you're telling us we need that we need to hire another person  so the question i would have for the department would be could this be limited term while they teach all the grant managers  you know we talk about we talk about not wanting to first of all not wanting to increase which is very understandable but at the same time we talk about all these comments you know on the on the audit report and not wanting to see them again but in order to not see them again we have to go against our other principle of not increasing the peace so is there a way we can reach a middle ground on this one or even if we start and we have excellent training and we start of a huge program everybody's monitored there's constant transition in accountants all over the county and i i would guess that this kind of turnover in a conference is about fifteen percent and that's a lot and if you can imagine fifteen percent of the sixty one million dollars of  s do you have somebody coming in who's new they can understand the grant the counting but not really all the particulars for their program and what's required if there's no other we we could start it as a pilot on now t but still i agree with the auditor's it's a long term thing so it's kind of a whole grants would allow for us to fund a position but hopefully you can find that that's the challenge we're going to ask them to review right but that would be to perform space yeah the question for me you know i when it's my turn ok yeah i just want to let you know that we'll continue the discussion but i would like to take a short break mid morning break please for everyone so requirements so ten minutes we'll be back at five to eleven program and we had believe mr coach did you finish or do you have an i question sir yeah mr chair i did finish on the grants manager position i do have some goals things but i i'll yield to the members  manager again because again that was one of the repeat deficiencies weaknesses whatever in this past audit report and i do recall you folks asking last year for this position and here we are again so i think it's due time that we decide one way or the other but i do like the idea if we can get funds the grants monies self but my question is and i'm trained to read all your description of what this person is going to be entailed to do and it looks like to collaborate with all departments so is that just in reference to their federal type grants and not so much just all grants it would be all gr ok and so this is to basically go in take over monitor and manage them or to work in conjunction with or what does that mean themselves have their own on the go sheet grant contracts and they need to maintain that and still have this role of controlling the program that's not their job for the grant the manager that's within accounts has the responsibility to provide the structure of monitoring of training then i would guess that there are of programs that are out there that should be charging for some overhead might be ten percent might be twenty percent but them i grant the managers fave really don't know how we could be looked at last year and that's what we did and really if we had a great manager that had this kind of knowledge and strategy in place on a kani white basis then those those programs are grants that have the capacity for this kind of overhead if we have a one million dollars grant there and if we got another one ten percent that's one hundred thousand dollars would  would have his compensation right back made there right well i'm just trying to make sure that somehow the appropriate grounds and the money's in expended and what have you the schedules are are on point that we don't continue to get this comment via our editors and however that's going to work out i'd like to help assist but again you know creating another e p has always been a sticking point for us and i think what i heard too was in the ifas system where like you mentioned earlier the reconciliation happens on your end but then when it gets i guess transported into the system and i don't know the ins and outs of it that's w things get sort of a law store delayed or whatever in the end result the numbers aren't jiving and so and not everyone as you say are accountants so how would this manager you know assist or you know rectify that issue that's going on i guess auditors had mentioned ifas and this sort of not working seamlessly i guess with your department of the problem out there we had out just last month was that the auditors was here and we still had this kind of unreconciled differences have to be addressed so that's why we say that actually it's supposed to be the grant that's supposed to partially because she was kind of new at this and there was another employee in there only a couple months ago and and we have a lot of these transitions and they have to be on the handheld at least  first few months and then they need to be monitored because things get so forgotten but the auditors had actually envisioned they believe is that at least quarterly other grants are reconciled other grants and they match out into a general ledger in the cap for numbers but it's not really happening because we don't even address them to the end of the year because we don't have time late to get in every quarter in a few noticed up but for the over time from the accounts our budget for the last four years have been around eighty thousand dollars a year actually eighty thousand here and the budgets been growing like that but that's because we don't have enough staff and if we had the staff if we were closing the books and reconciling every quarter another only grants but also capital assets on the cap improvement projects that is going to make the clo even more methodical and systematic and that's what the auditors are looking for and that everything is structured and planned and when they come in at the end of the year they really don't like any surprises and if we don't have the reconciliations at least quarterly they come in whoa what's this what's going on can this be done through our software  program software could provide structure that's a very good point but because other grants have so many and different agencies involved homeland security doesn't think like these other agencies or economic agencies or welfare saw the requirements so a bit different and that's why accountants are involved these software that part but the problem that the auditors are bringing up is that from the cast side it's not really jiving with the accounting books parts will accruals and we see of course and that's the part that software could help but actually i you need somebody that has that accounting now reconciling did you know did you force after last year's auditors  last year i did provide at least two training our member was like all deviants and we had so many great managers attending at the split the class is a two when you see many give  department heads feel responsible and they want to do the job so we have the budget director there so hearing the comments you share with us and the concerns from the members of this comm consider whether you should fold them into the finance area but you may not permanently as our staff yes fay don't have enough money to go around and that's why we have such a high turnover someplace else are the auditors and they made this really interesting outcome and i thought since i'm blake it was the first year that they came in and that's the first time i that he met our and would need to be at that kind of level and that's why when i answered your question about yes the software is going to help suffer is going to help but actually the complexity that the auditors are looking at is at the accounting or the c p a level and it's not that we don't know how but in order for him to close the books and close the kaffir he has to make sure all the moving parts in the financial statements are close and tie in if there's some juice in the grants it'll hold up the whole kaffir or some loose and in the projects and we have some projects that are complex but it causes a dysfunction in the audit and that's where the com that's we're going to have a hard time trying to fill that you know shoes it would be hard but that would be an accountant for which is a professional level so it would be appropriate and because  alike got maui is starting to need and the recommendations have been that we go on to the next level that is a general software for the general fully tested it yet but there could be something that could help and improve the process there right but it's not a a grant management software program right now and i didn't think it was we're just asking if tough one because we are talking about a position and we all know that you know we're not very excited about getting a whole bunch of positions because of the reasons that we all know too but i feel comfortable discussing this because in my background i've dealt with grants and i've dealt with what is required and i think i have a pretty good understanding of what the situation is here my own experience was the majority of the most grants that i had to deal with it any one time or sources of funding was like forty six and you're telling us we have three hundred fifty eight grants and many of them are federal so it kind of scares me to think that we're going to expect one super person to come in and you know take charge of three hundred fifty eight or more grants because i think they we really need to go after the grants there's no question that we need this and this is free money for get money from somebody else why not our taxpayers don't have to pay i'm going to give you my big might be my big dream and i've been talking about this for years i think we need a grants division in the county i would like to see a bunch of grand grant writers sit in seated in an office doing nothing but and they're the kind of people that you would have to be a salary to to because they have to earn a certain amount of money but then you also have incentives and i have personal experience with this and it works because you can sit people in front of a computer and they can be playing facebook but you know if you put them in front of a computer and say bring me three million four million five million twenty million and they do it and they're motivated so incentives are something that you would look at it in because it's to celebrate and i know it's innovative and i know we don't do things like this but that's a problem you know you have to have to have some payback on these things and then they work really really hard and the county would see the benefit so that's my big dream but for the small dream that we're dealing with right now i'm really concerned because you know to give somebody that responsibility of overseeing and dealing with all of this grant requirements it's a big big job so we've got to make sure that we have the right software that we have the right equipment that we have the right assistance and that you know communication is working well because you're dealing with all these different departments and each grant is unique there are rules that oversee all grants certain circulars that come out that apply to every grant like single audit requirements or you know it went twenty two those kind of things are probably old i mean i've been out of this for a while but i do know there are circulars that affect all federal grants and you have to be knowledgeable about that and it changes all the time unfortunately once you learn it you just can't forget  ongoing education because the requirements keep changing what i see but i like the whole that is the talk about how do we pay for this you know a good grants person a grants manager who really knows this business will be able to negotiate with for a good indirect cost rate better than what we have now and from that indirect cost rate which is what we get back for running the grants and what they negotiate with the federal agency a much we can get they can put their salary in there and there should not be a problem in how do we pay for it i think that for me i'd like to see us stop the debate and get somebody even if it's like a pilot or an l t a or somebody but we've got invest in somebody who's going to stay with us that has a future because if we're going to spend all this time and money train somebody  and they're going to be gone we're right back where we started so we need to find somebody who's dedicated in public service and is not looking at a step because if they are it's not going to the minute we train with them training again so we have to be careful what we put there and you know there's big rules in grants and auditors made the statement about the cash management you know i don't know if this is still the case but when i left this world you can have more than three days cash on hand and that's scary because if you have more than three days cash in hand the feds are mad at you because they say you're not supposed to draw down any more than you can spend in three days so you better know what the heck you're doing and you know there's a lots and lots of these rules that a grant manager would be aware of and would watch and would reconcile and make sure of deadlines and reports and whatever i really think that if we want to bring in this kind of money that we have to invest i don't think that you can leave this to regular finance staff they have too much going on this is very specialized very technical and so we need somebody who's a wizard it grants management and we have to put money in this but i think we need to be aware that this is a huge job that we're asking one individual to do and i'm telling you this from my own experience with forty six grants not three hundred audit there was you know that this position was long overdue you know we need someone i think having one person makes it a first only possibility for that one individual to know everything because as you said a number of times or that the various grants are very different and unique in how they're set up so one person will never know where the division whatever it might be could have all those different aspects or experts within that division to make sure all that  he's done correctly so i'm all in favor of having this is a starting point a move towards a deviation eventually i think it is really important sixty one million dollars is a lot of bread coming into this county assuming we what is the  because you and i both know when we go to nickel we have all these different grant programs that we're not even doing here in hawaii and a lot of it is because we don't have to keep ability some of it is because we don't mean nobody i've brought it back and asked certain department and they go i don't know that so i again have been a grand division which would be looking at all these changes will be looking out there for more grants to become available for specialized programs agriculture whatever it might be i think is the day has arrived and i think that is the right we need to look at it and this is one of those positions that i think i would i'd be l t a or whatever i would support i think this is something that they've asked and asked but i think it's a day of reckoning eskom and i would like to see it done so but i will say this if we give it to you and it doesn't get done by everywhere i will be after you the next year i mean not have  chair i think we've beaten this horse pretty well so i'll go back to the other position with respect to the before you sorry move on  i would just like to share it is your choose understanding of this budget that the round number of seven hundred million that's not include have been you does not grant so you know the number is a lot bigger than what some in the community would think is the right number and and that's why for me this budget is of a you for that clarification thank you mr wait to hear the question please thank you with respect to the work in progress construction in progress who does that work currently in past years it used to be of various individuals there were some from other offices or as these specialists in public works or the managing directors office of water department the problem that we have is that when the auditors com that they need this come this complete and comprehensive county wide a report that shows the status of all the projects in the past it's always been in parts of big parts so we haven't had someone with a comprehensive control every year our auditors come into our office at the end of august and they use the stay until the beginning of november the first month is a mostly expenditures and and the parts to cash transactions and the next month is the reconciliations all the accruals and the number one amount of time that we spent with the auditors on accrual in not the grants it's the capital improvement projects the last three years we've spent just above the whole month on a bunch of our staff it's not just one but the whole month just to get the thing all cleaned up so that we could move on with the kaffir when you what is the policy or the things move from construction progress to capital accounts at the completion of the project or are the or the items or are expenses moved as they're occurring or every six months or how is  it's a complex answer but i want to give you as simple as a cap it's supposed to be when the facility is usable so at completion that's the released simplistic answer the cap improvement the budget but it's not the capital ice because every year but we always spending ten or twenty a million dollars on the scene thing so it becomes almost like a common repair and maintenance and according to the gas be they have all recommended that kind of a transactions from the very beginning if not capitalize and starting to get into the complexities of the accounting but i guess my my question is do we have a we have a procedures problem with how we're dealing with it do we have a  software solution that might help with it and in these in these things have been going on for a couple of years but our staffing level is is not that different than it was a number of years ago so i'm not sure what's changed to make it necessary to bring on additional people is it training is it procedures it because these these two items kind of mirror each other with various departments involved and we've got a need for training at the department level we need obviously training at the at the finest department level always have this sixty thousand eighty thousand of of the over time year after year after year it's always been there and we switch auditor's problems though there and  it's staffing the software would help and i understand that the budget office is looking into some software that can help in the management of this area the construction and progress and project management in general one big part of it is that first question i asked this when his completion when should you be putting it into the capital asse that's one of the big problems because it's not an easy answer it's not that it's simple last year i had a long discussion a with me again who's the assistant administrator and we could not agree on a before that and we had mike white who came from sun guide and he was experiencing all the i'm sorry i he was a specialist a programmer type from sun guy then he held all kinds of jurisdiction then we asked them since you work for us you give us the answer he'd take it over and clean it all up couldn't do it too  engineering staff have some turnover and we have future projects in the police department they had off forty million dollar project out there on the key hafe facility and it's not the engineer and it stresses everybody out of yourselves including us and i don't know we need a handle on what we are looking at you for some of the recommendations that you feel from a finance my recollection with the auditors yesterday because i was particularly going crazy over their response but for you how does a department like environmental management start a capital improvement process of our green to that type of use of operational monies or who is supposed to check the contract to make sure that the monies are coming from the right accounts problem before i let mr white continue i did have requests from two members that need to attend a event that they've already made commitments for so i'm going to allow them to go and let them know i plan to minutes or so before take army day break my apologies mr lloyd now no problem the next question i have is under professional services on page six dash fourteen  we provided you with a budget of three hundred fourteen thousand eight hundred last year can you give us a rundown as to what those amounts of been spent on what kind of professional services  you're requesting a significant expansion in that ifas and a and a program to go paperless so you can let us know what the this request actually is for three distinct software start off with the easiest what is the a d p increase for the twenty thousand and eighty p before you before you get into what were your request asking what what's the three that what the amount that we provided last year for this fiscal year has been spent on three fourteen but a quarter million of that is from a d p which is the vendor that provides processing for the payroll they have a charge that is based on various i transactional rates on the input of new employees  making amendments or other processing of time sheets in the hours and exception reports so each month that's just the normal process in the for the payroll system yes ok i think we all understand yes so that's about twenty five  they had to work that down and in the middle of the project we told them to hold on because they were coming back and see that they wanted a little more for the training of other departments and we have a lot of the partners out there that she uses things like purchase orders and the vendor request slips and we were even going toward other travel forms it's kind of difficult but there were plans to make all of this all people list but the problems was with with the various departments everybody has all different kind of procedures and  the different levels of approvals so the vendor was planning this massive a train would have cost a lot of money so we're still negotiating and with that and we have some plans for that to on hold or yes it was the one that was helping us t about your grand manager requests as far as your prep for construction work in progress so if you held the hammer who would you hold accountable to making sure that procedures are in place but do we have procedures in place or departments should be meeting the requirements that your department is requiring for departments have their own up programs and they're in charge of their own missions so they have a develop their own grants and negotiated all of that from the accounting side we have this requirement with the auditors to provide the reconciliation and the balancing all of the of these reports that are related to grants and that's where there's a disconnect because it's only been really work that at the end of the year the auditors are in here in the event for this spending the month and all of these accruals that they're getting frustrated and this is really bad planning in my opinion i've tried to understand and i really appreciate you being here by the way you know i'm not an accounting accountant but you bring you bring better understanding hopefully for me anyway i guess i'm trying to understand what is the department its role i mean and you know like the construction work in progress they get it you get all the expenses maybe like after the effect after the project what do you hold accountable to meet your requirements or is it just your department that needs this kind of  that all the financial information is correct it's comprehensive it's accurate it's timely and we have all of these reports for one of the most important ones is the budget status reports because of what the council approves the budget for this project and for accounts is supposed to monitor all the spending there that provides how much it's actual versus what the councils says is appropriate so we are monitoring expenses from the point of montreal contracts and other vendor invoice as far as who's responsible for the propriety of the spending it's the departments that because these are budgets going to the departments they go out and they write the specs on the bids and then be signed the contract and that report needs to go to you and that we find a manner and in accuracy even if you had the personnel they would still have to go back to that department right couple of de estimate f y twenty fifteen estimate is zero  is that obviously it didn't come out as zero so you got that saying a lot of report after after this is why in december the report  next year olds the goal was there all but the actual will be one right ok great on page two thirty four go for item number three promoting expand use of electronic media are to archive documents and you say the the success measurement is the percent of paper document storage eliminated after all records dated after seven one fifteen  two fifteen estimate says seventy five percent and then your to sixteen seventy five percent so it seems like you're not increasing the number of documents storage eliminated or need to be the past years appropriations about one hundred to two hundred thousand now with a cool heels who is the consultant on this but it is on hold and it kind on a year to year basis that as a transactions are flowing through our claims processing fee are being scanned so if you wait six years or seven years and actually everything is going to be scanned but there's actually a better way that for other departments could go up people or so next year but that's still a depends on the training it depends on the department's choices we want to be paperless i think at the council had some indication in the past that it's a good thing ok  i have two more mr chair that page two thirty five goal six number one it says provide departments with training on fiscal accounting compliance and internal controls to improve and promote sound business practices and then you have provide quarterly department departmental training sessions and you say this looks like a new goal which is a very good goal to have and you say  right now i'm in the midst of a nine week on a course and giving in to all the county accountants on the kaffir and the training involves internal  controls what the auditors are looking into and why did look at that and how to fix a barn readings and on and on is someone we course but but that for training is one session of that training has all the departments in it the invitations that goes countywide ok might be somewhere in there the number of departments that actually attend and get trained it would be a good thing to have in the interview if you because six goal seven item number one it says maintain an employee turnover rate of less than five percent and again new goal very laudable but you say the estimate on two thousand and sixteen is twenty five percent is that twenty five percent of the five percent or right now you your goal is only a twenty five percent turnover rate that seems like a high number yeah is it twenty five percent of the five percent or i don't know i think i think we should get back to that could be a typo ok all right thank you  miss cochran thank you chair and going back into the details on sixty thirteen in regards to the overtime i know you mentioned that you know if we look at what our overtime has been and i you see the explanation additional funding to address audit findings and kaffir preparation audit findings as in the past because our goals here aren't reflecting the audit findings we were speaking of yesterday so is this talking about the past finding i think it's highly involving a mostly on the  appropriations and i think i mentioned before is that the of the bottlenecks in the past have been in grants and the c h p reconciliations is like the majority of the part where the month of november when we start to work on our adjusting journal entries as the conference call all of these across just because it's because we don't have a lot of these a quarterly reconciliations that a grant manager and the capital assets manager would be doing is compressed into november instead of spread out over the year so when we get the new people coming hopefully our partner approval of course this overtime will come down substantially ok and also in discussion with payroll and how you want to improve or the cost that has been put towards that a d p i guess program that was also in the audit findings that there's issues and they took into consideration the new transition and turnover and whatever in the system itself but that's been the kinks should be were worked out and i guess we're continuing to have i guess deficiencies in it of some sort to the extent where more monies are needed and all that so hopefully that can be adjusted here and i know just from one little example that these goals and measures are truly up to date i mean numbers are a little skewed at this point so if i would like to see goals and measures being put towards departments in relation to the audit and its weaknesses and hollow they're going to you know address them in the upcoming with goals and measures i will be looking for your other members recommendations  they're going to take it lunch break at this time before we do yes mr white just a follow up question if you don't mind on the o p s proceed is it your feeling that  that the overtime is compressed and november and into the audit time so what is your estimate of the amount of overtime that you'll be generating between now and the year from now to the end of the year ends if we if we have a bond issue that will create about forty hours of overtime on sales is it compressed effort at times it kind of depends also if there's some problems in a grant the partment and they're unable  do the reimbursement our requests and then we just have to dive in and help them so it kind of depends on that kind of stuff not what happens i'm not expecting a whole lot but grants manager has been one we've got this is the third year in a row we've come back on but the grants manager in the capital and fixed asset analysts are motives for requesting this or are selfish and self serving the fact that we don't get the information from the various departments impacts our department in our ability to provide the information that is required to be in compliance with the single audit and it you know holds up our c really it increases over time and so i guess the point i'm trying to drive home is that you know yes we want to help our other our friends in other departments but really this is to help us because we're the ones that are being impacted and and we do believe if we could get get these positions and i know you have a tough call and and appreciate that but if we could get these position we truly believe that we will be more timely in our financial reporting will be with the office of county clerk we are going to need decisions to allow the clerk to proceed since the clerk is there rect it through the charter to adopt rules for the classification and storage and destruction of all records of the county all records of the co and so we are going to make need to make some policy decisions on  what and how we are going to retain records and what should be kept for prosperity and what can be destroyed without risking importing documentation for i'm going to let mr mateo when he comes for his budget component to maybe share some thoughts on how he might want to move record management ok subject his record management forward all the counties are dealing with this it's not just an issue for us but it is part of our responsibility to assist the clerk in fulfilling his charter requirements ok thank you we shall go into recess for lunch and return it one thirty p this budget show come back to order we are in the review of the department of finance currently in the accounts division or  perspective i think you know your your knowledge and your experience and your honesty has really come up come across and we thank you for that not to say that we're going to make the big changes that we you guys ask you for but i think we've got a better understanding and i am i really am really impressed with what you've said today to us and i think the public has a better understanding so thank you very much and thank you is to walk for me also and we'll see what we need to see me from th spend some time with some grants employees that have retired from the county over lunch so when we have time we'll share that with you thank you program area which is the financial services program oh excuse me try i'm sorry we had sort of stopped at the at the grants manager and capital and fixed asset unless we hadn't six dash one three and six dash one fo so i for one have great question to you since you train to use one solution upon looking at their website you've done a lot of things for small organizations what have did then for an organization or a county of our size there's this one called one world and when we started to discuss with them we found out that they haven't actually gone up into the west coast so they just starting to reach out like those and the ones that they're working with currently are one of the smarter types who wasn't a good fit for once so lucian it's from the same our vendor from sun guard but fist we converted to a facade about the mid ninety's it's it's been fifteen twenty years now so it's about the right time for us to go up into the next  betterment and our working relationship with sun guard has been a very unprofessional they're pretty much all over the us and they serve progressive so they're going to be providing our colony with something that is customized to our in needs and i requirements or are they trying to convince us to buy something that they have and we're going to need to adjust to their program and the cost that we have in the budget includes both on the basic packages one hundred and twenty five thousand it's for the fundamental conversion but then the there's little difference it's just so that's arranged in there too we're looking to start this kind of serious discussion with them in january of two thousand and sixteen if the budget is past you know and that the one hundred twenty thousand you also have training and desperate creation is that a service that they're providing the company yeah the hundred and twenty thousand includes a lot of the basic packages and the already existing standard suffer zeeshan so they have those modules that are available for our customers they should if we wanted to pay for it was kind of things like israel we have no templates now regarding the travel orders vendor action flicks as said forms document department documentation currently and that is why you need this hundred twenty thousand  tenser your question about as far as the forms that are electronically functioning for the travel it's not it's not in our computer structure  structure that it's kind of a difficult it's not a simple approval of an invoice because it's it's linked in with things like the calculation of per deal from the flight times and that kind of thing you know it's evolved into something something a little more complex than what we expected but it looks good it's going to save the county a lot of time  and that's just the example for the travel advances does this include  he's he's in control of that security area i'm not really versed in that is there any component in this requests to take care of some of those concerns we have  no i think from jacob standpoint it's it goes in a lot the deeper it's more of a countywide structures through how the complexities are going to be and how the backups are going to run and  think members questions if not i'm going to move on to the next division and the section is just in relation to probably proper positions that are on a progressive series that will be moving up like the appraiser series that move up so that bargaining unit is the only change there's no additions to any of the no added the piece to our council i'm not sure if you want to stop there and go over to the component we talked about over the years the level of service that this body expects really dictates whether or not we would be considering any p r not i think you know that we have been trying to  maybe ramp up the enforcement areas or the exemption areas so that is maybe for your further discussion at your leisure chairman on page two thirty  is big increases in service is travel utilities can you give us some comment please tyria and that's your be category operations  mr turner that's based that's the bulk of that almost the entire amount of that is d m v ok thank you mr through anything in your division ok in the in the b section of the b account i think we have two two ads and that is to address the existing border review travel  in sixty two to thirty two hundred to allow for the funding for the board to attend these two conferences and that is the two only two ads i believe i have in the b budget and as you're chair members this is one division we have issues with various areas and one is short term rentals i'm going to look at approaching this from  standpoint and therefore one of the considerations is because this department has proven to be able to get the faint finances upon providing positions i will be considering additional inspectors short term from a taxation standpoint and that i believe is within the purview and also within the additional comments chairman i'm not sure if this body would like to or not i have a little excel spreadsheet identifying the different areas of complaints and the things  budgeted revenue that was garnered from the enforcement efforts from from the staff on a as needed basis as you know there's a lot of positions here that if there was a dedicated position there could be a lot of potential revenue for the he so returning to order we have just received a hand under the heading of real property assessment division complaints march two thousand and fourteen to march two thousand and fifteen chairman what we have here is just two different graphs one month tops is completed and on the bottom is not completed so we just tried to identify the different areas that we have been recently the counts is eighty two so basically we found eighty two that were not in compliance for additional revenue for two thousand and fifteen moving forward of a revenue of about one hundred thirty one thousand dollars and when you go across on the means it says noncompliance the second call second line is a minute improvement so what we found is two hundred eighty four parcels that had illegal structures or structures that were not on our books and that added to about ninety so we've recently used the state of hawaii database as a data sharing we have and while you had them we also use lexis nexis in finding those three hundred fifty five properties that were probably in violation or no longer were entitled to the exemption and that three hundred fifty five equates to about you know just short of seven hundred thousand dollars and that is for your information which is the best is its unbudgeted revenue for the fiscal fifteen years so we already have probably sent them a bill or back tax them for that that amount the next one down is the dollars that is also goes to a budget of revenue that is a program that is very time consuming for the division as although the ilmi identify what the use is we still need to follow up with it with the owner and that is probably why the reason is only twenty four units that are actually caught the next one down is the homeowner exemption death notification that we use in use of the obituaries and lexis nine properties for additional three hundred five thousand dollars and the last one is the delinquent homeowners as you know as people's accounts become delinquent they are no longer entitled to the home exemption and that resulted in six hundred sixty second to last line you show me about revenue per parcel that's exactly what parcel were given you like for example i go culture assessment one thousand six hundred seven dollars and eight hundred per parcel additional income yeah we just simply you're trying to get and that estimate as to how much revenue per hit and on the delinquent collections and how off of that six hundred sixty one that are delinquent how many are actually delinquent when they haven't paid or you know you're still chasing them because we can eliminate tax exemption but if they don't pay they don't pay right yes so how far we behind on that number i don't know the delinquency this may be the treasurer could probably give them this but we're just what we do is we extraction of all the accounts that are delinquent run that against our homeowner list and then from there we send the letters and then if they don't pay about two years and then we remove the exemption so ok ok very good thank you and i and i i'm has about five five point four mil outstanding so it i would agree with you chair that we should we should put our efforts into adding more employers employees into the enforcement division in your omitted i'm improvements you say there are two hundred eighty four units you found you mention un permitted structures when you got unpermitted structures how did you send something to d s a to say hey mysteria improvements i don't have it broken down but it could be either permits that maybe have been permitted and we just never picked it up never got it but i would say majority of them are probably non permitted structures we don't have anything in i'd says that you must identify two planning if this body chooses and we want to internally let give them a i don't think we would have a problem with doing that in years past when we've solved by elations and we've called before they weren't really saying to let us know because they'd be you'd be a lot of work for them so if we wanted to and we wanted to give them a means of letting them know then week we can chair would be happy to ask that that happen because you know that also will get everybody back into compliance with the permit issue and that may cause a lot more work for other departments  at least we have the departments talking to each other and we need we need to really do that the other question i had mister the homeowner exemption enforcement where it says  earning thousand seven hundred two does that include the back taxes and penalties or is that just for that this year for the home exemption and forstmann with the six hundred eighty one thousand recovered it would be all the years that we've gone back  for this category if you were not entitled to an exemption as long as we can validate the years of your noncompliance we will go back but there's also a penalty on there isn't there there is a penalty but it's like that two hundred dollar fine or misdemeanor we don't have a penalty and interest clause on the home exemption do we need to have that so to speak just all the years that we can recalculate that's all it is but i think the penalty is in a fine section on there mr meaner i think that's the only penalty section that we have in our code well would it help you  people stay in compliance if we beef that up a little bit i think the division can look at the existing language and identify whether or not we have the authority to charge the twenty dollars and we'll look at it and maybe report back if we have the means or if we don't because otherwise there's no incentive not to declare you know take away your home all manners of an exemption unless you get caught and even then you just pay the back taxes and ok nicely broken down and so you are not looking for any added bodies though for for beefing up your enforcement and correct you know we've over the years we've always done it on  time allowed us to do it we've we've always spoken to the chair and have talk in whether or not on the council wants to include or expand and i think these are you either pilot project numbers for you guys to identify whether it's worth the time or the cost for that of the e p for this revenue so that's why i'm pointing it out and it's really just body to choose whether or not they feel that this is worth it for the e p a or not ok and it looks like we possibly stand to gain five point four mil if we can vet all these possible avenues of revenue gain i think a lot of times it's two it's it's very clear as to how we handle these enforcement issues would be just as just as worthy ok very good we could definitely use that input chair i believe to assist in that manner  i guess also in your goals and increased rate of physical inspections for parcels receiving agricultural dedication and actual is at ten percent and then you're estimate for this year's seventy five percent then you want to drop back down to twenty five percent share i think what we did in the two thousand and fifteen we were trying to be optimistic that we would be doing it and that's why when i when we did this sheet it went back down to realistically with the existing bodies would probably go back down to twenty five percent because we just didn't get to it and the shows on this bottom part are not completed there's still four hundred that we didn't complete but we are trying to do that for two thousand and sixteen and we're trying to implement a program that every every six years should probably will be able to inspect it and that's just something that we're trying to figure out is do we have enough time to do all this work these or some kind of complaints is not a county code that we must do it so as of right now we're trying to do everything that we can with what we have so like i said we are  revenue should we want to go after all this and do the four hundred and make sure we need to do it then we we need to adjust our schedules either we're going to we're not going to do something to do this but first of all we've got to do whatever we can to comply with the code and whatever we have to do  as our operational goals these things are optional but there are revenue generators but it's not something that we're required to do by code i wonder if an l t a perhaps could assist just sort of bang out these numbers check it out vet it through see what comes up and then hopefully they'll be all up to par as in everything being assessed properly and then take things as they come hopefully as you know departments are speaking to each other you know things change zoning changes whatever how current they can just be on top of it from there on out kind of thing i don't know definitely we can consider that risk cochran this is one division i have less heartburn about they've performed every time they've come to us with their requests and we set the parameters pretty for the for the schedule it really lays it out for us and i'm assuming that looking at this i'm looking where the money is that what's not completed and where the money is and so do  building cost manual vendor so what we're doing is we're trying to find out of that fifteen hundred there's a lot of them on filers but so what we're trying to do is it's a lot of work to go find out and you know send out fifteen hundred letters and see we see why did not file a real property i mean all of our resident return because what we don't want to do is affect those who really make very little income and think they don't don't have to file and reject claim so we're trying to make sure that they're you know they're either not here or whatever so we're trying to use lexis nexis core logic and other vendors to identify further if we can find out if they do follow return somewhere else then would be able to reject them but as you can see you know fifteen hundred and possibly two point nine million dollars there's no doubt every day catch one of them just by doing simple research we're even finding just by using the internet we're finding people who are  longer don't live here still i mean if you just sit around and just use the internet you can there's a lot of ways to find additional revenue for those who didn't really truly not needing that jennifer to figment it makes perfect sense but if you got exemption for quite some time what if we change the code was about two years ago to tighten up the requirements how far have you is the number above what we've generated so far in the last couple of years well in the in the homely exemption enforcement area we've we've really rely on the state department of taxation  information that we give them we give them a list of all of our homeowners and they scrub it and bring it back to us what with either yes they do follow resident return they fall apart time resident or they don't file so you know from that efforts alone on the top and you can see three hundred fifty five removed for six hundred eighty nine thousand dollars so that's a strict that's a that's the first pass but we haven't done is taken all those non filers and find out what we're going to do with them because if you followed a part time return you're already  disqualified but what we were cautioning is is the people who do not file if those are truly people who make very little income and do not follow return in our in our correspondence with d is they said that it's required that everybody follow return so we just trying to do is just be careful that we're not hurting the person who really isn't limited income so we're trying to use the other means like lexus nexus and car logic to  we can simply pull out the people who do not qualify for this program and try to weed them out and then see how we're going to do with the remaining people but there's no doubt they will probably try to do is probably send out a second letter to this fifteen hundred to find out for sure if they you know deal if you're not and if so then you must follow return moving forward in order to continue to qualify for the program so there's a lot of work and what we want to do with the less than fifteen hundred people probably talk to the direct and the deputy as to how they want to move forward in handling it because it will be as a very sensitive issue for taking away home exemptions for people who really live here so that's why the caution i don't think any of us would want you to take it away from people who are actually living as you would hope to in order to make the enforcement more it more easy i guess of the word the hundred sixty nine is just one hundred sixty nine condo units right it's not it's not a condo development just unit so that number seems to be pretty low compared to what i think many of us thought was out there is there any suggestion you have with respect to making sure the folks that are in condos are paying at the right rate based on what they're doing ok chairman yeah the number appears to be low you know you're talking about twenty three condominium twenty three thousand condominium units in the county of mali and over a number of projects majority of them do comply and they do send us the annual report and there's a hand but we don't use that information to slowly change somebody's classification so what we do is we send that owner a notice asking if they do or do not and then they they self decorate whether or not they are using it for short term mentor or not so that's why the number is low but actually the numbers are a lot higher as to what the a o l is reporting different from what the owners reporting i think the chair has his own opinion on this and this is a program that only allows for condominium units to be based on use and all of the properties which are subdivided units have a different way of being classified so from a tax policy standpoint  it should be discussed whether this body feels addition be to different methods of classifying properties or should they consider maybe going to only one system where there's only one way of classifying properties like the big island and quote you homeowner is no longer living at the house because they went through bankruptcy and now the bank owns the house and so there's a lot of banks owned houses out there that are not you know are getting away with homeowners exemptions and the banks are almost getting a discount on that whole ownership of those properties how are you guys collecting that or or even if that's in your radar unless the fall should you know within thirty days what the code says is to notify the department of no longer qualifying for the exemption whether they do or not you know that's that's hard for us but you know we do try best we are relatively up to date as far as processing documents from a bureau could be in standpoint it takes us a while to get it obviously but our division is relatively caught up as as almost current as possible i would assume even in my own neighborhood there's at least four that are still four or five their bank owned and then bank owned for quite some time pretty sure they are veiling of the homeowners exaction i think it's a pot of gold and we're not really affecting homeowners we're looking at institutions and you know bank institutions that are doing away with us and if and i think that every we really get down and foresman i betcha that would bring in an would give us any additional comments that you may have please well i think one of the things chairman that's very important is to continue to support the sport the program we've used a savings in other areas a savings to users lexus nexus and c logic you know the funds for it it's relatively in an expensive and when i say inexpensive i mean maybe five to ten thousand dollars it depends on how much you're asking for but those funds  is always good to have we're kind of doing it as a you know if we have the funds will go do it kind of situation we've never been asked to put as a separate line i don't for information but that is probably the best bang for your buck years this council has given us funds of about ninety five thousand dollars to improve the the the photograph from four inch obelisks to three inch obliques and if you actually go on and look at the commissary now you look at the key area the key area is the a pilot project that we did that's already shoot shot in three and so you should be able to see the difference that funding i think that project will come up in about a year and a half i don't know if chunk of change is fifteen hundred people that do not follow returns right how much they can get to really really don't know right now we don't even know where to start because that's like a whole project for somebody and everybody's already doing something you know well that's  saying if we if we said ok let's give him a body to do this where that jail t a are not going to be one two you know we've always sided on the caution to just start with one and don't try to get too much e p a and then all of a sudden you have nothing for them to do but when we looked at the home exemption program every year we're looking at about fifty eight hundred people who either somehow don't qualify to just shake it out and so it seems like a program that continues continue time and time again i think two years ago it was like seven hundred fifty thousand next year with a five hundred thousand in one budget revenue and issue six hundred eighty one thousand every year it seems to be bringing in another you know three quarter inspections right and that's mr chair i mean i would think the rest of the my colleagues and you would agree it's well worth even just that one the homeowner's exemption foresman just three million dollars and if you're saying that that's every year a lot of that might be the same people but still that's a lot of bucks and it's well worth for in my opinion n e p but that's my other question is you have the agricultural assessment enforcements and you talk about and also in your goals about increased the rate of agricultural parcels that receive recall to use that are physically inspected ar mean i don't know if you're aware of the huge debate we have going on here is what is ag first of all but are you hiring urgency is your inspector somebody who can actually say you know i know what a farm is or some agricultural uses because in prior years prior to i know prior to me coming on the board i've heard this complaint is that some people would go to a ranch  somebody went to a ranch and there's only three sides the fields fenced off three sides because the four sides are gulch and they said well you know i doing out because you know all four sides so have you at least the drawback to that is yeah you don't see the ag but now you come in and you can value the property so i mean what do you want to preserve you know it's like i think it's easier to have an appraiser and teach them because it's not i mean or  requirements are not very hard i mean when you go there and it you can tell if it looks like a farm or not i mean honestly i mean yeah it's good to be it's good to be versed in it but it's not like it's very difficult i mean you know i sure we can take courses  etc to maybe know a little bit more but i think everybody understand what the sprinkler looks like i mean you know you me if you're going down you have plants you know have irrigation i mean that's pretty obvious so there's certain things to look for i don't see a need to be a specialist so to speak  i don't know if it's a good time to do seek out and you know try to find the cure for agriculture and you know the we have b f seventy going through and we're waiting for the working group so you know i don't know if this is a good time to jump the gun  other than waiting for that bill to come forward and see what we really want over what we're going to really need but that's just really just bodies choice of me if we want to have more people go out there that is our goal that's always been our goal but just honest this is just being honest we just didn't see it we just didn't have the bodies to see it go to follow that first and then these are the other things that we can do on a as needed basis so we just shift our attention if we need to  which is really helped us is what we did initially was we ordered the sketch verification so we did is we took every shape file of every building and we created a translated that into a shape file and ran that against the imagery from and what they did was the identify every unit omitted or do as a difference and therefore i think you look here and not complete it on the twenty three thousand emitted improvements the vendor basically came back and said there's about twenty three thousand properties there are either missing or different from the sketch that's just using the technology that was probably the forty thousand dollars cost for us and that's relatively really cheap because we can really recoup that for us so sketch did change detection is the second phase once you have your sketch layer the deets detection software will detect anything from year to year that changed as a first you need to verification and get that into a shape file and then from there you do detection we haven't done it yet that is something to be considered for this upcoming year to use the new flight that they're flying right now and about twenty five twenty percent complete on the discount imagery we would if we were to put purchase that software would take basically the imagery from two years ago and and do it against the current imagery and find out what changed that's what change detection would be and how did you arrive at the one point nine million dollar you end up with us a square footage difference i would have to defer to p t o as far as what that is but i believe what that is is they're taking all the hits all the parcels that they've identified and i'm not out revenue and by guess what she said here in comments it's one fourth of per parcel revenue above i'm not sure i think she's just taking a percentage of of of some clip of value so i'm not sure i can validate how she came up at a one point nine but i'm sure she's doing just the simple math and projected her parcel and how much a portion of would be captured because i'm not i'm not certain that all twenty three thousand are would be  irect revenues it could be like a porch out here or structures or small barn you know i don't know to the level of detail but what we did is we would we would sort them in order of importance to be omitted first because that would be a true  so i guess she didn't use that number because it would come almost eight million seven hundred sixty seven million six hundred eighty one thousand dollars if you use that same figure yeah i think i know you you kind of like not grabbing everything because you know like you say could be a porch it could be a small additional structure or two through the main house itself right but let me ask you this question does this also take into consideration large changes in the house itself because i know of structure so almost every piece that is not in our database is picked up through just four so i mean that's a huge amount twenty three thousand and probably the reason why we have two hundred eighty four on the top was just the ones that we've identified as priority and where he went wrong went out to it and the remained there are things that we still is like the to do list so you know it's just a matter of getting out there and i think with this program chairman those about that we're trying to use as we can assessments software of visiting properties every so many years we're doing a pilot project in the key area right now i think these things will catch the limited property eventually because we're going to go canvass every single parcel in that district so that is a project i don't know how long it's going to take we're kind of doing it assuming it to be every six thousand parcels every year so i don't know where we're going next it's just identifying the sun based on the existing first run is wherever we find the most omitted structures that probably be the next area that we were going to be going on to well thank you i guess like everything else you know it takes some time but like m mentioned somebody mentioned just moments ago and this is a gold mine because i mean it is just there and you not even have to you know worry about how much it's just it's there and all you need to do is make sure it's there and then you times out by whatever assessed value and that's no increase in rates knowing creasing valuation except for those who have made those changes and i believe that should be done accordingly the other one with the exemption that's a little  more that's a little tougher because they're going to look for people who have a file taxes and why and i get dated there are a lot of elderly that in the last few years of their lives in the last four five years don't file taxes you know they live there but they don't fight back as i know some right now did just to just kill file taxes because they don't think they need to file taxes anymore you know i'm sure you know that that is a fact so i think you understand and he said yeah and i think a big part of the home exemption ones that we're finding they're not  a lot of them are probably deceased and the state of hawaii i think is dead no longer disclosing that records so that's one of the problems that we're having and that's why we're trying to partner with core logic and other places is trying to find out if they have death records from other states because people only die here to other places as well so you know so what we try to do is try to get the death records from multiple places in can including international so that's something that we're trying to clean up on is asking for three additional bodies we originally got three bodies approved in the two thousand and thirteen budget came back last year and we've asked for six a got three came back last year asked for the fear remaining i was denied and so we're back again fifty percent of our our customer transactions are done in our satellite offices these three expansion request service reps one for each satellite office to act as a concierge and provide documents screening for customers at those offices one of the biggest complaints we get from our customers is they have to wait you know depending on the time of the month in the business potentially thirty forty five minutes they finally get up to the counter and they don't have what they need now we you know we have signs that tell them what they need but some people don't read that well e these requests of positions would improve customer service and would also help to reduce wait times in other words you don't having people wait there that don't need to be waiting that they don't have the stuff this position would be available additionally to assist other the other service reps at the satellite offices in processing transactions as time allowed and i think mr avila could probably and additional comments to that request good afternoon mr chair council members in addition to that the plan for that additional position and the correct amount of the transaction as stated in our goals and objectives but fifty six percent of the transact customer walk in volume occurs at the our satellites offices in ky and mark which these positions are for so and this position with them be stationed and we would modify the way would the customer floor of their office where we would delineate quick transactions and the standard transactions and this person would then be screening for documents making sure the customers have all the required documents issued a number and if there is no one waiting to pull the number could pull a quick transaction in between our queuing system is able to do that so this person would be very useful in doing and making sure that our transaction the customers when they are issued a number are able to be service that is probably one of the most frequent customer complaints that we receive at the satellite offices after they've been waiting an hour or so to be turned away or put our service representative in a situation where oh i need that oh it's in my car however five minutes later if they go out and get it they come back to be another customer that they are serving and they would interject is very awkward and when that happens and our staff try to accommodate i often results in a complaint were a customer that's being service is interrupted the other thing that is happening at the satellite offices is that during the since concerts type of help no one walking in from the street has the ability to ask for a quick question without interrupting a customer has been waiting an hour that is being service and that happens every day pretty much that puts them in that so this three positions while it we believe will take our service delivery standards and really improve it and touch a good percentage of the community at the three major satellite offices oh and we have been tracking at the service center keep in mind the service center experience is about fifty four percent of the walk ins the fifty or forty six percent fifty four percent goes the rest satellite offices on a daily basis the service center we've been tracking we turn away between thirty five and fifty customers at that service desk and there is  and i'd also like to add that we are also tracking couple of this major bill that's going moving forward at the legislature house bill thousand and seven which will receive if approved will allow undocumented immigrants to obtain a driver's license and this will become effective january first twenty sixteen and she that happened we are exposed expecting  submitted as being funded for eight months out of the twelve so that makes an effective there of october once that person comes on board if it's approved by the council we need about a five month training time training bill the other thing is beginning january twenty seventh teen we are going to be experiencing are we new will volume return for driver licensing as you know a lot of we were value level today so we need to be prepared for that otherwise we're going to have a lot of complaints we anticipate could be coming in our service desk and based upon our successes at the service center i've had calls from every other county as to how we're doing it here so they are looking they've tried it to some limited extent at the other counties and  think they're looking at it however we do need the staff in order to provide this additional service for those customers that are walking in thank you mister frist to us then why is in your online program doing a better job to take away people from working in we have online right yes mr chair we have the on line registration program that's strictly for motor vehicle registration we're currently doing i think about twelve eleven twelve percent diversion and that however they are paying for it when we get to the b accounts there are some other things we're trying to do to divert customers from service line that can be out and made it part of our philosophy is to use automation to augment our throughput of our staff so the online registration program is working a wherever there are fees involved in that  clarify that there is a bill before the legislature house bill thousand and seven that survives the crossover it's currently was heard by the senate committee i percent of the population are undocumented and if this is passed those community members that are present here will then have the ability to come into the d m v and secure apply qualify be tested to operate a motor vehicle safely on the roadways so right now information i'm receiving is a lot of those people are driving anyway we to make sure that they are tested and we want to make sure that the general driving public at least everyone driving this out on the roadway meets the minimum standards to operate that vehicle that they're operating safely on know this is going to be for regular driver license uri yeah so anyway that is before the legislature and if it doesn't pass then it will not materialize however it does we will have between now and the first of the year to do outreach to make sure we have everything in place they'll be other issues other states have already launch similar program and they'll be a lot more failures because of the language barrier they'll be other demands of our staff and we will only probably need time to explain a lot more information to those people that are coming in but bottom line i think the intent of this bill is to make sure that the person that is operating a vehicle on our roadways can safely operate that vehicle so how much increase in fees would you take to cover your three  half a million dollars of required revenue what kind of fees would you like us to look at good just well it is the driver licensing fee or current fees currently is at five dollars per year and that's forty dollars and because where would they have the regular tax base pay for a driver the driver should be paying for this fee well for for the for these additional position it's  not the primary function is not to service the should this bill come through these positions are so we're asking for is for the satellite offices to provide documents queeny answer questions at the satellite offices so if we have one hundred ten thousand licensed drivers that's how many licensed drivers we currently have in the county breaking it break it up we could formulate to see how much more we could take up the fees to absorb that i have not done that calculation which are would you need more because of this not at not at this point i think we we have our plan is we believe in cross training and if that be the case we can always cross train if the demand in row testing comes up and offer additional wrote during slower periods and manage it that way too however the  we're not asking this is for the satellites but rotors volumes probably will increase if they are three percent one hundred thousand about three three thousand about three thousand more applications would come in three thousand more rotors i don't probably will go through some of those will not pass the first time they'll cycle through there is a minimum seven they waiting period  the miners are still will still be required to undergo the driver education classes etc and so they will cycle through however i believe our examiners and we can do cross training within our staff so that we do not need to increase our drug examiner staff to accommodate that surge and just for the road testing portion lee no thank you for being here you know what i appreciate your department cross training employees because sometimes you know there's no specialists nowadays there to learn a little bit of everything i'm trying to understand what i'm hearing from you it's really to screen the clientele the customers and they come in to make sure they have all the right documents you know before they come in line and see hopes i don't have this can we do up public service some kind commercial can we have like you know at the airport the recording you know don't there's an educational process that we go through are you able to yvel up or create some sort of monitor that while they are standing in line or what have you they're saying in whatever dominant language that we need to look at  documents i mean the same thing that a screener will be doing but this would be like i'm just thinking so how we can get innovative or does that make  all that makes perfect sense we use multiple facets we encourage people to call in we have a call center we have the our web site that has a lot of information of the documents that you need we have been i have been working with the city and county they are almost ready to launch an online document through what type of document you need once that's in place the said we can create a link from our site to their site so that they can go through however those are in place now we have power point presentations in our offices but those are already waiting in line  we can certainly do p s a is however it's going to be the money involved and we keep the the number of people that we would be able to reach out to  given all that though we would say it's not just driver licensing people come in they will say oh where do i would a wife where do i sign to release this vehicle i'm going to sign it oh i have this oh they come in they want to just knew their registration we look at the the registration and the computer it says you have sorry have an outstanding citation that you have to get there so they don't get so it's a whole myriad of transactions that we have i  was under the with the understanding that the additional employees were to help with the screening of the documents so i'm thinking you have a monitor in your station or and where people are lining up and they can watch that as they're waiting and then realize they don't have all these documents and it's not a duplicate you know we are planning to put that type of information p out however it's going to require the people to still read that and a lot of times they will not understand because their circumstance or situation doesn't really fit until or match until it's really pertains to their vehicle or the transaction they're trying to to accomplish and they want they want an answer they want to be walked through they want to get a live person how do i do this and we explain write it down to them and say this is what you need to do thank you thank you after we gave you the three  people in two thousand and fourteen my recollection during budget last year we didn't quite have the stats on what kind of impact i don't think they had gone out to the well they were not yes that's correct they were not  right question first so don't answer something i'm not asking i'm wondering if i know you guys keep track of the traffic coming through in the time you know the wait times and so forth have what kinds of changes have you seen  following the deployment of those three new employees the wait times right now are very good whoever we are in their lower volume for driver license we knew the wait time still fluctuates with the surges at the end and the beginning of the month for drive motor vehicle registration so they're we're not getting complaints as far as the average waiting time our average waiting time or believe has my if my memory serves me right it's about twenty minutes twenty five to thirty minutes a little longer at the end of the month but that's the average wait time which means to get an average to attain a thirty minute thirty minute average wait time there are offices so at this point we are we are meeting that with those however we have not deployed that document imaging for this  so we're not screening and that doesn't mean that human screening at the satellites so that service we don't have in place so have those three employees gone to  satellite offices or the so they're at the satellite offices and we try to maintain that and whenever they're out right now we are sending support and relief staff from the service center to make sure that as much times as possible whenever one of those four people are on leave we send another person from staff from the service center to provide and maintain that coverage is where we're able to attain that so pretty much on a daily daily basis we find the need to send staff over to cover leaves and absences from the saddle staffing at the satellite offices ok and then on the online registration or online services you provide i'm sure it's not just registration what is the you said there you had about twelve percent of the traffic being taken care of on the web site yes we have i thought i'd believe when i asked for the stats the last time it was like twelve percent of the of the trans renewal transactions coming through on line and so at this point that is you know that is the historical number and what are we  cheaper if you use a c h or each x to fifty plus fifty cents so i believe it's three dollars i'm just going from memory but it's roughly that and those twelve percent of the transaction customers that are to what degree have you promoted that because it seems to me that if you had you if you've grown to twelve percent of the traffic but it probably won't take much time to grow it more and we may not need the people on you know on the front line in the satellite offices if we're able to shift more of that on i think there when i've spoken to the vendors and i've spoken with the other jurisdictions there think there are things that they have tried  like pay for the convenience fee but then that is a business expense that we all need to to accomplish and don't give them priorities when they come in to the to the service center to to do that  and absorb that as part of you know a cost of doing business and push it push it that way i don't know what the impact will be but the indications i've gotten is those that are transacting online are normally the customers that are preferring to do that anyway before we initiated this new legal you're going to be lucky lucky if you do divert seven percent and we're at eleven percent so we're slightly above that if we passed on the convenience fees good these three individuals that you're looking to hire when they're working a full year are going to cost us  hundred thousand dollars right rate would go up to about thirty three thirty four thousand that's true including french fringe benefits would take it up to about one hundred eighty five what is what is your current level of overtime expense and i know you may not have that handy but i'm wondering if you have the overtime expense broken down by satellite offices no we don't have overtime expense our overtime expenses is mainly due to our  business philosophy anyone at the door by four at by four at the service center we service we don't turn them away in their way we eliminated the the complaint of the windows being slammed her face that we use t experience and we got that we also have the same philosophy at the satellite offices right now if there are customers and by three thirty p m aside from written test we will the staff if we have enough people we'll continue to service them and based on that if they need to stay overtime to do close up we pay we pay that premium pay on the over time because we don't like any of us would argue with that for a survey so what roughly what is the expense of f so for the twenty five thousand through february two thousand and fifteen so if you add another twelve thirteen thousand you'd you'd have a mouth for the full year  however i was budgeted for the premium pay i have a thousand dollars left so thank you the service center that's true but thanks to the support of some additional positions we've had in years past and the continued additional training that we need to continue you know everybody needs one thing on the this bill that apparently just passed the senate last committee i have a little concern about and i don't know if you guys brought it up to the state legislature but if my wife and either way he's in here have to go get an id they have to have their marriage certificate their birth certificate and if they got a divorce a divorce or defect in order to get an id from you but now you're saying that these folks who are undocumented citizens can come get a driver's license where's where's the balance in that avila you don't need to respond to that decision make i mean have you guys brought that up to them because you're going to have to enforce that mr i'll give that a shot even though we don't know if it's going to pass yet you may as well have this discussion because the reality that may be coming in those individuals will still be required to provide some sort of identification identity and will probably start work with their consulates they need some sort of passport he need just that they are not going to be required to provide proof of lawful status such that is the big difference the ok because these are probably undocumented immigrants and so at this point yes we will be requiring but that will be part of what will need to explain to the individuals and we're walking them through because once the law passes then we're going to have to have minister that you have a lot more  differently to get a benefit so why would they pay the same free from my residence that have to fulfill every requirement we're going to have to give them more attention more time more explanation and not record all the documentation to prove identification and we're going to be the one responsible for giving the license so are we going to be protected with extra immunity i guess thank you we definitely would look further into this the exact ralph occasions of this bill but generally speaking our fees must be related to the costs incurred and if we can justify it and create a defensible position you know we'll have to look further into that thank you thank you mr cohen thank you that just hit me i do have another question  you know you say fifty six percent of the folks now go to the satellite offices and forty four percent are at the main office the question i have and i know th ratio would be maintained but did you move some of the folks you know kind of an appropriate amount of folks there or do you need to move more to the satellite since the there's less work at the service center there is just a walk in customers or the service center does a lot more my back office operations have fleet deregistration car registration dealership mailed in renewables i have my call center there have my fiscal section we have the financial responsibility section that deals with the courts in the suspensions and we have a record  so a certain person a percentage of the staff that have there is currently approved are for the back office support abortion for the front office to compare apples to apples i believe we have like fifteen fifteen service were ups at the front counter and five eight five for about fourteen thirteen at the satellites service there's the breakdown right now of those service where it's so so that's not quite real it's almost like sixty forty at the service centers so if you were to take those three positions that you're looking for and take them out of the service center and move them to the satellites how would that affect your your service there would that probably would not be been of work as can be expected because as i mentioned earlier our service center staff is the source of back up support staff when when those satellites staff go on vacation so there's that's why we send those additional staff to cover the cations leaves etc and of the cation rotation at this satellite is that only so many can take vacation at one time so we can provide that we leaf ok and  trying to work out a compromise here if there is a possibility of one so you send you need three people out of their satellite offices one in each office how many people are there are in the service center that are the relief backup folks you have four five one to know whenever we find the need to send relief to the satellites then we get complaints at the satellite offices because we have service windows that are not filled ok so so you do actually take somebody who would have been in a when you are ok and then we fill in which ever way because we don't want to really  understand that satellite office we need to maintain a certain core because if we drop it down to only two or three people then we'd have to close for lunch because it's not safe for one person to operate a satellite office by himsel don't you already close for once i know the offices are open monday through friday eight to three thirty ok oh it's the road tests in the satellite they're older so the satellites are all by direct the committee to page six twenty seven six dash twenty seven rather when i would do is i'll run through all these b accounts and then and see accounts and then you can ask all the questions at one time the d m v is asking for thirty nine thousand nine hundred forty one hundred ninety this this request will give the division necessary funds to pay for this cost in physical your sixteen the next item is under professional services three hundred thirty five thousand that this job could take two plus years with three dedicated workers we will look at utilizing staff paying over time look at hiring limited term staff and in the end it a really appear that hiring an outside vendor seen the most practical i believe the the division has gone out and gotten three quotes this wasn't just a random number pull out of thin air this was the lowest of three quotes the next would be under other the next request would be under other costs miscellaneous other costs sixty seven thousand dollars this is a pilot program to divert customers at the call to service center from the service center representatives the human the cost of the project is the fee charged for each transaction by the vendor which is approximately five dollars and thirty seven cents which would be a cost that would be borne by the division the cost for the pilot is based on twelve thousand four hundred forty transactions the service center currently does approximately thirty one thousand plus of these transactions annually the goal be to divert enough of this type of transaction so that the service reps can help others and  wait times in improving the customer experience the next request is on page all that one was as well six point two eight other costs computer software forty eight thousand five hundred sixty two dollars this request is for additional funding for the pure mint and the implementation of a virtual queuing system or customer flow management system which would allow customers to check their place in the queue and then be notified by some interval using their phone or or they could do it via their computer if they were at home it allows customers to be productive while maintaining their place in line the system would also have the ability to book specific time slots or reservations in advance for customers should we choose to do that the goal would be to specially as relates to reservation system would be able would be to book people when when things are slow but you know time certain you can come in and you will be served you know at ten o'clock to get your driver's license or whatever the cost for this is is is based on the transaction costs and the last request on page six dash thirty two is machine equipment it's twenty three thousand dollars and twenty three four hundred twenty three thousand four hundred dollars and this represents the equipment needed for the three service rep positions requested for the forms so that it's easier to retrieve maintain and improve the security if this is not approved will probably will need to accommodate  a's to project the scanning of those documents under our control for a period of three years two and half years before we moved and least expensive of those three alternatives was was this going out depends these are the older files because when we started our doc we've been we have starter document imaging project in house for a while there and we've started with the most recent files going  back and these are now the older files would probably we treat them about once we are every so often too so we need to maintain those documents because those are the permanent records we don't do this then we'll probably need to take in a commune date those at the new facility so the if i'm understanding you correctly the more recent files have already been scanned and are in electronic probably no longer are no longer active but in between some are we just don't know which is which and you have have you been given space at the new service center for the filing or so do we need to make a decision regarding records management first before we can even consider some of these things goes yes the county clerk is charged with a large portion of our records management of the county your i know what you shared we are complaint with state statute we complaint with the county sharper and the rules of policy regarding records rather old and there is a record this position committee there was formulated to formulate a record this position now this project is not to dispose of the records that i have is to change the way we retain the and how it is maintained it's not that once it's scanned i'm going to dispose of the electronic record it's going we're converting it from a manual file that if it's destroyed and gets where it's gone to an electronic format or the statute that i caught it states that once electronic i think it's ninety to thirty h r s if once it's scanned or an electronic image of a document is considered to be an original document and once you convert our manual files into an electronic image it opens up  additional efficiencies such as retrieving that document that any one of our satellite offices if you need that at the instant right now if a document is needed guess what they're going to have to call you can have to retrieve refile authenticators and scan scanning equipment for the new service representative expansion positions this doesn't this this whole authenticator and scanner equipment doesn't doesn't jive with the explanation of the duties of the service representatives the three new ones because it looks as though the propose expansion is to provide documents screening answer customer questions prior to issuing tickets to walk in customers to me that sounds like a host hostess you know someone your p r person that basically comes in and you know it directs traffic and so why do they need  passport your social security card and the authenticator basically assist her staff in ensuring that the security features of those documents are present before we accept them for you know when when they're presented so wouldn't that be done at the at the front desk instead of that that person will be women ery while this person at the satellite offices as we envision the  position will have still have a fully functional workstation there to be able to pull up and two to function and screen because there will be let's not kid ourselves this at the satellites there will be times when nobody is waiting for a number at that point are queuing system when once we modified that's the and then call  customer with a shorter transaction time in between screening documents we don't want to just have not like the service center where you're doing screening documents because of the additional volume it's interesting to syria you're actually doing another you're actually creating another desk i mean another service counter in the front that's met recently at the service center that's all y satellites well that's what that's what i'm saying is that i don't see the difference between that and a person behind the service desk the description doesn't comply with a person behind a service desk it's basically prior to receiving a ticket this is this this representative is accommodating the customers so now you're adding additional duties of scanning and authentication so to me that's just have an opportunity mr carroll any questions thank you misplace from that area because of the physical distance from the other the other locations and then looking in your the binder chair line a has that you want to drop by for ten minutes the wait time average wait time is forty we want to get to thirty two so anyways i wanted to follow up on that but also in reference to the rental for the line a satellite office itself looks like it's i guess about one fifty seven thousand per year is the actual and you're in moore of course retinue are normally goes up annually is that what the rate is at this time rental because i know we're trying to cut back on our different rental units throughout our county so just this isn't needed spot it's fairly new and it's accommodating you know a need for the worse my community which i completely appreciate and so do others but in the future i'm just wondering if we are possibly going to search out you know our area perhaps if we get an expansion of the line a police station then that area could be perhaps turned into a office area for this type or use or something to that nature just because we have land and i hate to continue to pour in rental monies into something we never end up oh only in the end so just for fun you know food for thought for the future so   what we're asking force in addition and i believe the lease in a couple of years we should be we should have an opportunity if the council and administration wish to do so main concern is i think the office will need to make sure it's functional it maintains i think that's the you've seen the office i think it's a very very nice nicely laid out office for for the community with a lot of scanning project you say it was three and your lowest bid was three hundred thirty five thousand for that's for all three years is that there was there coal to scan the quantity we estimated to be in those filing cabinets ok so that was three people for three years essentially two point something years so and when we figured it down to how many documents can be scanned  maybe cutting down the number of people and taking longer to do it and storing those in a storage facility i mean if you do the math you might be able to get lower than that i'm not  sure have you looked into something like that where you know you say ok we've got that many documents but you can do it over five years and we can store the file cabinets as long as we need them for a couple of term contracted or a combination my goal in submitting this is to reduce the number of manual files over time and as we reduce that manual time at the same time all of my offices and staff that services the customers will immediately gain the the ability to access those files on line because all of our offices are connected infrastructur can get out and different ways yes or our standard is we need multiple indexing it'll be in there by plate by then by last registered owner by and by i believe scandi is the same standard that we're using so that we can merge those scanned documents with our current scan documents by doing a cross application cory between the files if we search by then we get everything we've search by license plate we just get there and the kiosk that you're looking at for sixty seven thousand that's going to be at the new service center or the old and moved to the new this is a pilot so if it we can get it up and running before we move it certainly will be at the service center with that we also plan to do some public education as people come in and we divert from the line i'll have my staff take them is let me show you how to do it if you can recall back to when the self check in first started at the airport when you walked i remember walking in there i saw an attendant at the front of the line come in let me show you how to check can so that that's kind of the similar concept we need to educate and show people how easy it is to use that initially it'll be expensive and if this pilot is a girl i think it's a good their version of walking customers and that like mr walker said we can focus on the customers that we need to focus on and just refresh my memory how many did you think you know what percentage of your customers would be would move to those kiosk as opposed to still go in  thousand four hundred forty transactions that would be like a forty percent diversion of the walk in forty forty percent eighty percent if we if we can divert twelve thousand four hundred forty so and i'm sure you know where i'm going with this if we can divert forty percent at the main office that certainly should be able to handle that you can move three bodies over to the satellites keep in mind a and b if you can divert forty percent how about throwing a kiosk at each of the satellite satellites if if that project were if it goes we can certainly do that  however we don't know what the diversion is we still need to educate the public public we're up part of this component that we talk about briefly to there's the outside queuing where people can do appointments people can do  reservations we can we can divert with that scum certain inefficiencies that's being experienced by the other jurisdictions now like the great no shows in the resort industry mr wait a great  reservation system there will be jockeying and no show you'll lose some efficiencies however it's going to be good for the public those that are walking and if you can divert now keep in mind earlier i also said that in a  can't because our goal is we want to utilize the technologies that are available so that we can continue to increase our throughput through other means yes i think thank you mr chair and just to echo that i mean yes if this pilot program worked yes i certainly would want to expand it with your approval obviously kiosks don't get retirement benefits you know and all that good stuff so the you  know the other thing we're looking at just for your information is having them be able to pay their water bill in the kiosk having them be able to pay their refuse bill on the kiosk as well so you know that's kind of the sort of the shift is to try to automate what we can and to be an option for the customer so there will not be part of the fees that we observe it's just going to be the trend kiosk fee and each check fees that's on there this chair's a follow up to that that as an incentive to use the kiosks and a disincentive to use the service as i would think we would want to waive the fees a that's you know that's just one night we could do that we could triple the one that goes through the service and there's this many ways to get the desired but i would say if you have the we can go back to auto plates and tags the request for this year was one hundred ninety four thousand and i'm sorry the appropriation was one hundred ninety four thousand and eighty last year and you're asking for the same amount this year the actual expense last year was just seventy three thousand seven hundred so i'm wondering what your when your expenses been in that category thus far  i'm sorry page six twenty six half way down under division of motor vehicles auto plates and tags six zero zero six  that here we we did not replenish the inventory for under twenty four thousand when it was not in the seventy four thousand bered amount or are you using the new funds for that the funds i have budgeted will be for our statewide procurement and i submitted  yet do you have a sense of how many plates you order and at what cost on an average annual basis because the reason i'm asking that you have almost one hundred percent of last year for this line on and your basis for the average cost cost per pair of place for passenger b it's about five seventy five  part of this component her specialty i mean i'm just i'm just asking what the total sorry total total plate order twenty twenty seven thirty one thirty four replacements and the growing number of vanity plates that are ordered the two hundred sixty two thousand that was uncovered at the beginning of this year but all those orders come in on what the orders are because i i'm i'm seen that if you're ordering that much you've you've already got the money for that plus you've uncovered what looks like a full year already and then you're saying you're going to encumber the remainder before the end of the year when the the prior year purchase it's in cumbered isn't coming in until may so i don't you know the incumbrance game is something i'm not real pleased with but it looks to me that we  made may not need to add that hundred ninety four thousand and total but i'm going to need you guys to outline what you your project expenses and this is a much more minor one but  what's happening with janitorial services because there's i don't see any expense there at all and yet there's a request for fifteen thousand five hundred for the coming year just sit in silence and wait we got another department i would like to get into its review and we have two more divisions of this department that still owe them their opportunity to give us their comments all these expenses what about income what does that come from where does that shop believe currently the plates in the budget the appendix b is that five part should look at taking it up to five seventy five because it's costing us five veterans we don't stress veteran plate is a designated plate if you're a veteran you can fight us your d d two fourteen you qualify for that plate so that's not a small of heat right in that regard it's not a novelty purchasing at this time so mr walker and mr king bargaining unit changes for the most part there are no expansion requests b n c accounts his budget is actually going down by roughly twenty thousand because of it we had a one time appropriation and so there are no he has no expansion requests line because it looks the best of anyone that we're ever going to we're going to see this this budget season so i said wait i don't think we should thank him for waiting so long and yet no i greet the one thing that i do want to ask you mr king because you deal with this on a day to day basis and for some of us we get frustrated with the process it's not for this specific budget review session but i would appreciate if you would give the council some recommendations on how we may want to look at the state per cumana law i make revisions to make it that easier but you know comment one of the things that's going on at the legislature this year there's a house bill i think it's twelve ninety two and one council member couch brought this up the last time i was hyper regarding past performance on contracts it's real difficult issue because one of the problems with our state procurement structure is that it the goal and it's all based on the american bar association model procurement code which is i think been adopted more or less in the same by thirty or forty states and the model procurement code tries attempts to reduce eliminate all discretion from from contracting to reduce the potential for corruption and so that's good but it kind of ties our hands sometimes and so one of the issues one of the things that the this twelve ninety two is trying to do is to introduce past performance into contracts one of the big problems with that is is because there is no discretion we really have trouble we really have trouble we really can't it's really difficult for us to do successful procurements when we do make discretionary decisions like the request for proposal process there's lots of qualitative criteria and if we score somebody let's say we score contractor and six on some criteria and contractor and eight we have to defeat able to defend that so you know when there's objective criteria it's fine but there's a lot of things that are very difficult to evaluate unless it's subjective and so that's the issue that's going on a twelve ninety two but and where that bill is gone it's gone to cross over and they are basically they recognize the issues and what they're doing is it's just forming a committee to try to see if they can figure this out a little better thank you for that update on that specific bill i will ask the committee if they have any questions for mr king you do mister i do in that you know you are very cognizant of always pointing out the neko purchasing power have every discussed this with mr king on how we can use that as opposed to going i believe we've made mr king aware of the u s communities program right other things that as a member co  for the country so we use the big boys l a county the number one county cook county illinois another big one fairfax virginia and in the past us officer issue was that since the counties did not participate with the original solicitation he didn't feel that the counties were able to participate using those like agreements i had mr really sit down with the chief procurement officer and explain why he thought that was not a good reading of the current state law and not to street too far but i can see so we get covered if the seat feels that we were part of the original solicitation so now all i colonies are put on the original solicit so do we use that i was unaware that were named on their name on the solicitation then we should we could we could certainly use uses communities i have no no i'm not in bed with the western states contracting winds and i have one of the things that sure how com a mention a couple of times to me was that the state gets some kind of financial benefit from whiskey and air and air and fujioka the previous it became an administrator never admitted anything to that but the new administrator sarah allen has said that there is some kind of something i'm not sure exactly what it is so that the royalty yes so if we could use but if that's the state what do we care if we can get the royalty eg great but if we can get a cheaper price yes so so you know really boil it colonies of writer who was purchasing agreement and they purchased us communities for hawaii and fortunate well maybe forcing the biggest beneficiary of us communities purchasing agreement is not a government it is  anything else mr coach mr king anything you want to share before you leave us for the evening we appreciate your good work thank you for the opportunity to speak today and again we look forward to any chair the treasury program is made up of two sections one is the administrative which has three people in it and the other is real property tax collecting and fee collection which has six people on it  and i know you are in a hurry so i'm going to go fast there are no expansion requests in the b and c section the only expansion request is in response to a recent finding in the single audit which were reviewed yesterday which which discussed internal controls and adequate segregation of duties over miscellaneous cash receipts etc i would also point out and it's not yet published so i can't get into a bunch of detail but the legislative auditor just finished an audit of the treasury section division as well and he had a few findings which would  also help back up our request for this expansion position which is a request for an account clerk three position to assist the treasurer in carrying out various tasks for the treasury division including monitoring and booking the collection of county wide miscellaneous revenues these are revenues other than real property taxes the position would also assist in the implementation of the county wide acceptance of credit card payments through our vendor point pay would also lend support to the area of internal controls providing for segregation of duties as i mentioned will also assist in the preparation of various periodic reports including the the budget quarterly and annual reports arbitraging and other required reports from the treasury division you thank you thank you for being here so i'm looking at your goals and measurements and actuality you've you've collected ninety percent as far as real property tax collected does that include you're increasing and then the delinquent taxes is sixty percent and you're going to can you get that t wanted to be more aggressive this time we want to do more tax sales so so you don't see you eventually getting up to ninety percent just maybe half of the well twenty fourteen actual was just thirty two percent yes that's correct ok thank you this person yes because in the order there's like three hundred forty three thousand dollars not you folks don't know where that is where we came from or where it belongs or just this person going to assist us in finding out where that delinquent real property taxes also yes yes so we can a collect within one year using all our tools including cleaning the property no investment portfolio and user choose or have a big responsibilities regarding your investment portfolio is there something in writing that you can give this committee regarding the parameters of your investment policy for the investment community we have the managing director we have the budget director rectify announce that get the a director and accounting system administrator understand what are we doing with all our cash and what kind of return are we having on our short term investments and we want to be able to rank among other reasonable sized municipalities sorry mr jay i think mr walker do you know what is the range that the county looks for as for the potential returns of i would assume what three hundred million cash we have in our a less than that but i think our are i think we're we're getting upwards of a half a percent to three quarters or percent i mean and again i would i to the questions please come forward good afternoon mr chair council members the range that we're running in right now is in the sixty sixty to sixty about sixty four sixty five basis points since the beginning of this fiscal year it's run up from about fifty basis points next month we expect to be around sixty eight basis points in the month after that through the end of the year somewhere in the us you know basis points or one hundred of a percent that's correct so sixty two basis point is zero point six two percent and tell us why that is a reasonable return and you folks ok right now the one year treasury is around twenty two twenty three basis points in the two year treasuries about fifty eight basis points so we're beating the two year treasur why wouldn't we go for something better our first issue with our investments is safety to make sure that we don't lose any money the principle of the corpus has to be maintained the second is liquidity so our concern is to make sure that we can pay our bills on a monthly basis and mr chair we have about two hundred fifty million two hundred fifty five million dollars right now because we divested last year for the e u t f that is another issue that you and we can talk about that leo the difference in the size of the portfolio well my issue is more than just the size of the pot for it's the amount of return we're getting on our cash yes i understand that we've taken the portfolio which when i first came here was kind of disjointed and we the first thing we did is reestablish it so that we knew that we had return coming in every month maturities that is once we had a constant which a stabilized maturity structure then we started beginning to expand it and that's why you can see every month the increase in the yields that we're getting so there is a logic behind it sir and like the state i think the committee he's to review the investment policy and whether or not council needs to take action and place specific ordinance guidelines and what we shall invest in requirements of that investment and the reporting of those investments questions for the treasurer on any other portions of the treasury program mr victory no what type of charges that's seems like such a huge fee from a bank to destroy a pin anyway because they're like a breakdown of what for just one type of service a bank charges basically what the banks do is they give you credit for money you keep with them they pay you well almost like an interest rate but they also charge you for the number of checks that you run through them and i mean they and they sort budget and finance committees requested go back to the banks and got them to actually reduce reduce their fees but yeah i mean it's a it's a big number we have a lot of transactions and i guess i would be my best answer as is well you know i understand we have yeah but i guess we don't get the senior checking so we're guaranteed you know user and writer of service i suppose so i would you say seventy years ago this committee made a big push to work with the administration to let the banks know that if they wanted the county's business including letting us park our cash in their but the budget program you know i had asked at the beginning i don't have a lot of information on it it was above my pay grade that this was the end expected the so i need to be here and thank you for your good questions will get you the information you requested and if that leads to more information please feel free to ask and i think you'll be all available to a provided thank you for your time yeah thank you very much there is no guarantee you get what you got last year in categories starting with salaries and then b and c so with that chief why don't you start with the administration maintenance component of your budget and let's stay with category a please all right i'll budget chair and council members right we have the administration maintenance program all right that would be on page seven dash one salaries and wages for the administration maintenance program for proposed f y sixteen is one million six hundred eighty eight and four hundred two the change of and that is due to collective bargaining we changes so the whole increases from just contract requirements chief the sixteen for the most part yes and then there's also two positions that have been sent up the first one would be the secretary three and s are eighteen c and information communication systems manager so secretary three would be responsible for assisting with the deputy fire chief and his duties and the information communication system manager is to assist with our radio system mobile data mobile data terminals and our records management christians members mr victory no thank you to expensive positions elaborate a little bit more what specific job are they providing to you in the department available to utilize for paperwork and what have you and you know our department of our size throughout the county most deputies have a secretary we have been with all throughout our existence and the other position the other position is the information communication system manager that is specifically for our mobile data terminals which  we will have in all of our response vehicles their computers similar to the police and this person will work closely with the police department and their radio system see right now we're not affording them the assistance that they need for department of our size we know when there's a problem with the radios or your communication system your mobile communication system will resolve the debt for you the police department so you'll be going to them for assistance yes so now you're trying to get someone to do your specific vehicles all across the board right and also help with tying in everything that we have with the police department they've been asking us for the last five years to put in for something like this and i think the last three years we've had this come up to administration to push through because of the city's thanks and as you know n p t has lost some really really good people through retirements and taking care of their i t as well as a radio system so it's time for us to have a person that they can have a point of contact to work with our department increasing is there more paperwork and there was you know apparently we have asking about this for a long time is it getting to be more and more is it getting to be to the point where you know it's detrimental well thank you for that question yes that is the you know a department of our size only has fourteen support staff and that includes our foreign mechanics so if you're looking at clerical staff that assist us and also as we move forward in trying to take in another this is going to you know really really hinder us from moving forward let alone day to day operations so it's an integral time and really critical for us to move forward with these positions because we you know would be taking on all of that radio system as well on both of those positions just you know out of the deputy's office as well as the the radio system so thank you for that question the other part is you know this person that you're using the police department to help you with that work is that a real problem or are they able to accommodate you fairly well you have to wait their comedy to us as best as possible right now i have two people that work on overtime on their days off to help take care of the system that we have knowledge to assist them because it's not their responsibility to take care of us they already take care of the system as a whole and i think we have a really good system but you know after those two days it we've already had a person before that who did it for eight years got totally overwhelmed and and had to stop so now we had two people to fill in to help us is that whole process and i don't think it's fair to the police department and they also need someone of a point of contact that is this disposition is the zine to be a civilian so we have continuity over a long period of time and have  understanding of the systems as they change and develop and progress i get the idea thank you very much thin thank you chair and so i'm just i guess the two main questions before we really jump into anything is what happened to their credit dacian and is this assisting that because i remember one that was the big hobo with the department for years now so i just haven't heard much talk and really in regards to it and number two in these are big questions i'm chair is the merger occurring has it occurred to move forward with the kurdish process for our department and we are currently working on that we just got approval several weeks ago for that so we're finally ready to move and on the merger  there's still a lot of moving parts that we work on diligently with the parks department every two weeks and are slated for the merger to happen is july first but there's still a lot of unanswered questions and policies meeting with the unions and what have you so i'll spend a lot of time with that when we get into our ocean safety program because i do have it in our budget at this t a thank you chair hello chief thank you hello when you talk about your secretary or it's less clerical well that i know you're going to talk about oceans safety later on but well that transition include the position of secretary or clarke oh yes right now we have two positions within that program that is specifically for clerical one would be for personnel of our size and the nature of the things that we deal with there's a lot of overlap that happens i mean i have a lot of people working on overtime my personnel office saw two of the individuals that work in there are working overtime constantly and they repor directly to our business manager constant overtime have constant overtime in my office to handle all the overload of work so if those positions do not correlate and coming at the same  time it will definitely hinder our day to day operation and you know we have asked for these positions for quite some time now i believe the secretary three is going on for five years and this is the first time i think we've got it this far the other question was the the premium the other premium pay off the propose hundredth hundred thousand eight hundred eighty and the change in the amount sixty four thousand all right the change if you see in fifteen i believe on nine one one zero zero eight on page seventy six the allocation there is already too little because that was c or you know brought down from last year's requests so in other words what we're trying to do is allow our selves to get right where we need to be for the entire fiscal year you can you elaborate more in detail what do you mean you need to get right where you are this if you if you look at it in f y fourteen the actual right you know we would be one third in two thousand and fifteen so when we add the sixty four that it's generally it's always eight months you know because of the time frame to get them hired and all that so so that really would be more like yes fifty something thousand and probably more like forty or so and i fought for you expertise in this area you know right absolutely i mean you want to have some technical technology will skills yes ok ok thank you i got it thank you very much th  hold on one second to me get ok yes we did have a retirement hire that person who retired was an e m t three at the time of retirement the salaries that we put in is based on the probability of that book who will possibly get promoted so we're taking the average of what that person we get promoted from and eventually getting into that position so we're not taking at the lowest rate because we don't know who will be picked for that position so this allows us that flexibility if we have someone with thirty years that gets chosen for that position then that's the allocation that they would have that's good to your b and c categories chief for his program area small equipment under a thousand dollars so that would be the related costs for the proposed secretary three and information communication system manager positions at the amount of five thousand dollars and then we also have a change in our personal professional services decrease due to a one time appropriation to contract out updated updating the department's standard operating procedures so this is fully important doctor or absolutely you work you know it's absolutely chair you know and it's i understand it's for already so when do you feel you can get this screwy chief well we're hoping to have about ninety five percent of it done  k by the first quarter of next fiscal year so biceps october first yep i guess my my my my big questions and these are the bigger expenditures and maybe very necessary and i hope they are first of all on is the auto parts you're jumping it  asking well thank you for that question and i really appreciate that part of our budget amendment is for the shortage of two hundred forty thousand in this current year  originally asked for in this position here was two hundred thousand dollars and you know everything to do it our maintenance is all about safety and having our vehicles in apparatus and response units always ready to go all the time and when they're on the road we want them to be safe so we've asked for this type of funding throughout the years it never really gets that much right yes so in that one we are originally asked for two hundred fifteen thousand dollars this is all that made it to you again we would end up in the same situation come march of next year and we'll be back for about two hundred fifty thousand dollars for a budget amendment right now we're curtailing as much of the repair that we can afford but that puts us in a bind because we have backup units that we need to take care of we need front line units that we need to take care of and we cannot skimp on auto maintenance so i think that should be in item that you know annually we should really take a look at and keep it at at the at our request level you know and we still come and does your budget level and so you better have some greely good justification because i get i'm not knocking it i think it's important i mean i would hate to have it call out and you could be not working properly or you take you longer to get there because whatever reason and then the apparatus is not working properly when it does arrive you know that doesn't solve the problem but sure enough  that's not what i'm saying ok no no i understand and you know it's a time issue it's a lot of work for our departments a lot of work for all of you and i think if if we show up you know i mean we've set up our plan and our historical data to move forward and  this is all about maintenance i mean we're talking you fundus four million dollar truck the parts have to be a lot more than the average truck that's driving on the street so that's the issue too because we have to ship it from the main  and it i mean we don't control what breaks down to and once we start having issues of vehicles that we utilize off road we have a lot of issues especially during the summertime we find ourselves repairing that so when your vehicles what's the average age how many years of many of your vehicles specially your fire apparatus because i think that's what we look at that first of all that has met all of the front line equipment what is the average age front line equipment we got equipment for anywhere from less than a year because we just put on two new once last week thank you for that and up to about fifteen years so our replacement policy allows us to we have it time so we come in at about ten to twelve years and we start asking at that point because we started to have issues and for you know one case that the ladder truck just the right here we're going to do training next month we're going to put it online the first week of me and that goes to line we had one year when we did a multiple repairs where that truck was nine months out of a twelve month period as a front line ladder for all of our hotels all of our high rise on the west side and we spent upwards to two hundred thousand dollars keeping that thing running ok so sometimes vehicles like that take up all of our money for the whole year and doing just regular maintenance you know so we run twenty four seven three hundred sixty five so when when we make a request like this it's extremely important that we stay on top of it if not you know we've got to stop things that we basis this needs to be conducted so right now we try to do it as best as possible but it's extremely dangerous on the process that we use on the off island yeah ok we're hoping about fifteen twenty years oh yeah it's kind of a lot so it's a trailer that we move around and then it helps the water the pump provide the testing process for pumping for instance if we were doing a high rise the pump has to pump its capacity of fifteen hundred gallons per minute and we need to certify it on an annual basis that the pump actually does that yeah it's one of the criteria for the pumper truck letters and all of those as well ok thank you well and looking out that page of seven dosh eleven on the very far left corner says priority numbers and so this is you have priority thirty three for the first item fire equipment parity in twenty nine cut i put in for forty seven items for ok ones for a total of six million and a half dollars and these are reoccurring things that we've constantly put in that never made the cut so the party items are the ones that we are originally put in so there's some items missing in between those and you know from our perspective you know we sit in a room with all of my staff and all the people that work on the vehicles and all of the equipment and all those things and we try to perth ties and really on any given day anyone can take any any part of these all of this requests could be number one and it all depending on what you need that day so we do is look at what we need overall for that year and what we didn't get in the past years so the priorities stay pretty close to home we've been doing it thus far and it's just us trying to get one step ahead so you'll see a lot of things that may have made it the first time here but may have been multiple times in previous years ok thank you thank you seem to see the some forty seven items but we have two to work on right now and then real quickly in the well what are we calling this do this but binder here in the narrative yeah external factor description grant funding opportunities we've been talking i know if you've been following us a lot about grants and especially of finance having been here earlier so do you have a particular person that solely focuses on your grant  department we have a person that oversees it we have a grant team that takes a look at it that they're paid overtime to do that as well because there's a lot of work in helping maintain it and also going for it as well and we try every source that's possible and that's all thank you mr coach thank you mr chairman thank you chief for being here you know we're talking your million dollar trucks and that that are very important to your work have you thought of and i'm not sure if i brought this up last year or not but have you thought of a little bit of thinking outside the box i know you guys need to have all call medical call versus a fire you put everybody in the truck and go to that go to that call have you talked about or thought about getting a utility vehicle that can take two people with all the medical equipment needed and go to a traffic accident or go to wherever you need to go and if there is a fire and leave the rest of the guys there at the station and then if there is a fire you take the big million dollar vehicle out to that that call as opposed to driving that big truck to a fender bender or a car accident ok that's a really good question we've definitely thought of those things you folks put in a bunch of utilities for us in this year's budget that we should be getting shortly the issue is it's not the call that you're going to is the next one did you get called to so in some cases where we have multiple companies we allow that to happen because it allows us to save on maintenance and fuel and wear and tear and what have you but it's all dependent on the call so in some cases we may do that and we try to do that especially in our outer lying areas because of excess ability anyway so what normally happens is we'll take the big truck along because a lot of the equipment he's set forth in that truck and we cannot take the call as four cars only one caller called in and that's the description that central dispatch got but as the scene progress is sometimes we don't get that information because of inability by the caller or what have you or they just cannot see or whatever it is so we have to be prepared when responding to these things with all of the tools and all of the personnel at that time so in some cases yes we'll be able to do that but not in all cases we haven't come to that point yet we will be researching that and really checking on that through and through their credit nation process because that seems like it would save a lot of wear and tear on the on the big million dollar vehicle it sure does yeah yeah so in cases that we can we actually make that happen yes with the utility so thank you for that question ok thank you gravelle i don't have any questions right thank you back in ninety one that was to help with that process it's not efficient but we can do it safely the issue is when we go to off island so we go to more luckily we don't have the water so we have the water sources  issue is how do we recapture that water because it has to run for x amount of minutes at that the maximum pressure to with all the gauges to find out exactly what's being expelled by the truck so that's what meets the standard of that pump itself so we do know is we we borrow a dumptruck public works and we try to recapture that wood of wood of wood a pool a portable pool and restock that water back in so we're not wasting water we've done without it and we've been doing it you know what i call quote unquote a not so safe situation and somebody somebody gets hurt and it's too late at that point right but more importantly how effective it is without this an explanation please chief yes this sixteen thousand foot turnouts ok so the sixteen thousand for three is for the personnel that's in admin program so what that is like journey of our eternal snow is coming on the end of their shelf life which was ten years so we're little over nine years in the hall and it's a compliance issue and you going to see a huge amount in our far operations for all uniformed personnel are assigned and at one point we had two sets per person and we're trying to get back on a replacement program with that because it's compliance apparatus is within this cost and the helmets are within there too because our helmets are coming up on their shelf life as well so this is by contract we are required to provide the employees ok contractually it is the employer's job to provide the equipment necessary for their employees at the safest level possible so you know that can be looked at different ways but we run all of our all of our products and tools through all research and development process number one to meet the safety standards of that product so this would be for firefighting coats or pants or what have you they go through that process once they meet that they would go through a testing process of actually how it's used which one would benefit and give the most mobility and safety for our firefighters and then it goes through that process so we do that with all of our equipment is this a contractual requirement on the colonies part to provide the employee so then the employee gets no benefit and under their taxes them to write off their equipment and their uniforms because we're paying for everything yes so the turnout and uniforms are two different things but it's considered the personal property of the employee no it's the department's property noticed you have a request to us and we're just trying to get a good understanding of what each component is ok so members you had to turn out  so in two thousand and fifteen under auto parts we lost two hundred twenty six thousand dollars i mean one hundred twenty six thousand i'm sorry the actual we went over budget in november at one hundred forty thousand dollars so that would be eight months of holding back repairs and you know i want to tell you this when when we took over in two thousand and eight there was one of the highest priorities that the fire commission put upon us to st in up and provide the best maintenance for our vehicles as possible and that's what we did and we have sustained cuts in the last four years and trying to deal with all of that so and i know last year you folks gave us of an extra mechanic and that's helped us immensely and we've saved a ton of money not contracting out but we still have the responsibility of maintaining those vehicles to really think about that cost factor  that you know came up to you and also the item the total cost that i said that we actually need because i don't want to come in again for a budget amendment and realize that we're not trying to spend money there we we appreciate you speaking up and sharing those comments with the community thank you members anything else in this area b and b and c accounts we show glad to hear is there an ocean that's the first step in ocean safety members i had wanted us to finish fire tonight but this is our first training but i am i going to stop at half of the department's review i want us more fresh and ready for tomorrow so i'm looking at not longer that and other our message across to us regarding their priorities in their requirements but i am aware of time of what you and i are staff so that's what i'm looking at at this point in time numbers but i'm going to run this to so if you look at the training program as we progress through the three pages all of it consists of collective bargaining  agreement changes and there's a minimum order to no premium pay within that area not that it doesn't happen but  we've tried to minimize within that area the key in this is the one area that has bobby very chief yes it is sir members of you have questions regarding bobby which understanding yes it is it is part of our collective bargaining you can see in the explanation of changes members almost every single one is a bobby comment so saying that is there any questions from the members regarding so as we go through seven dash sixteen you'll see some areas that are inflationary adjustments based on the budget director's analysis  you'll see an opposite of that which is an expansion for a one time purchase of structural firefighting helmets and features with feet shields so those are the compliance issues that we talked about and the end of the the life of those helmets and in this would be part of your turnout requirements chief is that accurate on our part the total it's on sambal for firefighting is yes that would be considered that but the turnouts are specifically for the colts in pants and firefighting boots which is non station boots and then the helmets we separated it so it'd be a little bit little bit easier for us to explain victor in a christian so for knowing i guess the question i would have is what is one of these helmets cos i mean i see the full figure is that for all of the stations throughout for the helmet specifically and turn all specifically and it's for each person yet still is just for the training division just for the training division so there's a new recruits to go training  she's just in for me that is for the whole department oh so this is like three hundred helmets more or less three hundred in three or three hundred four helmets ok ok i can you know it's a problem that i think that you would appreciate having that many recruits that would like to be a firefighter yeah i means we get good choices to make absolutely and again i've always said as far as fire and police  know to keep them safe when they go out and they have to do their job i want them to have the best equipment possible for that purpose and you know i never i want to ask you you know what i'm saying but i just want to know when you say only for training i was like wow and for all the stations with the new workout programs that we utilize that encompass as well as we training these other tools that they'll need to you in and just for your knowledge majority of our stations the weights over time have been donated by either firefighters or community members so they've they've brought all of their is what m r e stands for and that's currently what the military utilizes so it has a pretty good shelf life so what we utilize that is for areas when we have our firefighters  extended calls they're allowed to have that on their truck and if they need to provide themselves some nourishment and we cannot get to them this provides us that opportunity and also when we're in situations of natural disaster and we don't have the ability to go to subway or what have you to get our guys food this sort at least of all them some nourishment up until those provisions can be made so and twenty fifteen requests it only fifteen hundred so you have your exhausted and you know we actually had our friends at the national guard give us a bunch of boxes that was getting close to x expiration and then you know we had that amount for oss and we and it went over really well so once we did that study then we said hey this is the opportunity for us to move forward and  the marine colonel gave me two packets one was turkey king and i forget the second one but the interesting thing is the colonel ate his own lunch that he brought from home  times a day right so that's like twenty seven hundred and then right in the middle of that whole process they switched to emory and let me tell you the emery's are better but not compared to anything that we eat out in our community so or at home so yeah you know it's just to sustain us during th know i was waiting for the samples but i just really don't i really and i give you the samples and the other food oh i guess my question as an expiration so you know we're seeing  out its per you know life span per se because this has to happen nationwide yes i mean we were saying just goes into the landfill or does it go back to the manufacturers and can they somehow i don't know  any purpose and we get a discount for giving back something i don't know no the only time we can utilize that is if we're giving it to another country and we've had offers know but that is a process that that all the county fire chief synesthete for chief we kind of talk about to see what we can do we've sent things to brazil as as a goodwill gesture we've all the those areas but once it exceeds that shelf life unless they have no osho or what have you been there are probably the only ones that can actually use that yeah it's really unfortunate  that's the world we live in compliance and safety right which is important but i think just you know if you know the end and side of it all and where does it actually end up and if there's a better use for it so could mean that we having now days lost a whole lot longer than before so before we see the replace this on three to five year programs now it's up to ten years so we're paying a little bit more but we get i'll whole lot more usage out of these items and we also in years past we've purchased extractors that are specifically used to clean these things for blood borne pathogens and any type of suit that's in there so we have the processes to take care of a whole lot better and ultimately keep our firefighters safe and away from getting contracting diseases and stuff like that so thank you for the question well thank you and be nice if there are some could be so the department right after the the negotiation in closing an arbitration of our collective bargaining agreement the we as the employer went into a supplemental agreement with the union to allow one hundred percent uniform allowance per to that we had seventy five percent and they had an extra set of uniforms so let me break this down as it's in the comments ok so rash guard is and for our ocean and stream rescues that we do it's high visibility orange so it distinguishes ourselves from anybody else that we have all in the public if we're going after them and it gives us high visibility in the evening time and what have you and it is also protects them from the weather the sixty shirts is duty shirts so each individual will have the six shirts and this is annually anything over the sixty shirts that they utilize has to come out of their pocket the two sets of nomex is a fire retardant type of uniform and through the process and discussion  the negotiation of this memory memorandum of understanding excuse me was that it is part of their personal protective gear because it is fire retardant that allows them an extra layer of fire protection so that's what our department has been in that process for about ten years now and we're on the forefront of that protective gear for our firefighters and that's what nomex specifically means on the uniform my shirt that i'm wearing is not no mix so i'm not allowed near a fire scene with this my pants is and my understanding is that we have one said that is no mix for the chiefs which is blue like everybody else and so we forego one pair of trousers which were no max i believe there are about one hundred in one dollars apiece and we supplemented that which shorts so we had some offset of that but we're actually saving a whole lot of money during that uniform allowance but this is for that that beginning stage of when we do the change over so this allows us the money to fit with that memorandum of agreement and what that provides the department is the ability to control how our personnel look and keep them in the king professional at all times and also very identifiable to our our chiefs the public so that gives us a lot of flexibility in how we control that for instance if a individuals to see chief i can't afford to buy any more i utilize my uniform allowance for the year i have no grounds to discipline that person because he's allowed to have twenty five percent is his he owns that or she owns that so to eliminate that  provide us with a little bit more control and con ability that's why we entered into that agreement very good chief thank you for th jacket safety vests so it is broken up the way it's broken up between you know for medical supplies and whatnot all right this one specifically we put it on a different line because this is specifically for our recruits ok so we on average we'll hire about twelve annually so this allows us to purchase those items and  assign it to those individuals so that they can do their job in training and when they get at the station if they fail the training and do not become a county firefighter everything is turned in ok in fact recycled for the next training class if it's usable and see if we have the ability to sanitize it then yes ok process i'm just trying to figure out you know if this is only for the recruits because i think when we talked about helmets the response was it was for the whole department it's only for the personnel that are assigned to that two divisions health and safety and training is there any other things that you would book in this subject six zero three four besides the required apparel and support equipment for the recruits anything else you case place in this account under medical safety supplies medical supplies is the other item in there why three turn off turn outs only thought it turned out on the other like these are for our health and safety division you see it as hazardous materials division and we have three personnel and that's all we have assign component for your department fifty yes that's so replacement what we do on an annual basis is we try to order fifty a year i think last year we only had forty but what that does is keep us current with all of the bottles and those things only last about five years as well so every year we only do fifty because we don't want to we want to have it on a cycle so that we always have bottles of vailable on all islands and this is the division that is charged with the keep maintaining and ordering that so this is the area that it comes out of so that will go you know go back and forth between operations and hazmat i mean and health and safety i'm folks utilize other departments i mean where there is public works and their equipment to assist in on fires or i don't know if you use water or you know i am not sure what obviously  the water department personnel i mean the speaking towards personnel press possibly equipment and things of that nature how does the department assist and i don't know pain like  cost fuel maintenance any kind of hazard pay out or not help assist in you know you do if you are utilizing their personnel from another department to assist in your type of work so for example if we works and we utilize their tanker trucks and bulldozers and what have you the overtime and all those things and that's why it's usually or requests from either my my staff that goes through all the rector good for those situations and of course there's an after hours protocol that we utilize so we try to utilize the colonies resources as much as possible you know it all depend on where the situation is and accessibility to the resources but yes we always that and most of the time they take care of their personnel and the cost for that we run their meals and what have you need yeah ok i've reached the point where i willing to finish today's version in a lot of the department to return tomorrow morning and we'll finish fire tomorrow morning after staying chief absolutely certain whatever time ok well members you know my thought here is i want to go through a quick initial review because we are going to make adjustments definitely and i would i would like to give the department's time an opportunity to respond to it just minutes i think that is fair and so please you know bear with me in my madness i have a plan  review i want to keep it moving forward because as i said i would like to hear the department's response to those of justice that will be making to the budget any further questions for the chair chie tomorrow morning there will be all night nice in bright and bushy tailed so thank you very much for the opportunity we'll see in the morning thank you very much members this committee meeting is adjour