the matter is but if you look at the road he's talking about the nine mile molson road it's shaped like a porsche to the top half of it let's say it's twelve o'clock at the very top of a couple of miles from the border very close to the border and at the bottom first one that went off at two forty five was it approximately say eleven o'clock on that horseshoe it would have been on the west top half of that the second one that went off at six o'clock was to the east sensor and i don't know how and indication headlights he chose to follow he turned his lights off to follow that light source the lights went off he followed and he when he got to the main road because at that point he was off the road when he got to that road be the  horse you rode he decided to head in an easterly direction based upon the fact that the other sensor to the west had not gone off he was just saying with the person had gone in that direction that sensor would have gone off  certain extent he didn't see any activity whatsoever and he ends up at the intersection of highway and that road when he would be about twenty minutes later when he approaches the intersection out and he hasn't stopped there and again it's  around six thirty in the morning he testified that it was dark the sun was rising and they were patches of fog he sees a minivan driving lawfully on a public highway there was nothing suspicious about that  assumed that that was the vehicle that may have to end on that nine mile road and we would submit that nine mile area is an area that's notorious for elian and drug smuggling however there are residences that  on that road it's very we're talking about early in the morning or the middle of the night so to speak within a few miles of the border and there's no other largely populated correct your honor the first answer when i was at two forty five if you come upon a vehicle at two forty five on that nine mile road maybe we'd have a different argument but the facts in this case are different what we have is going off again it's six and he sees the green minivan at approximately six thirty and i would submit to the court at six that it's an odd time to be on the road and many people travel on america's highways at six thirty in the morning actions that far it's dark the vehicles not marked from the front there are no lights no spotlights there's nothing to support his assumption that she may be alluding based upon the possibility that maybe she when she turned on to the dr saltz road which would not indicate she was speeding up to allude him began with a couple of assumptions piled on top of each other he stated when he called headquarters i don't know if i have a local resident in a hurry here or whether or not i've got somebody that may be trying to elude me now i would submit that one of the factors that the court to consider is whether or not an individual is trying to lose law enforcement stop without a stop and so to short circuit or short cut the the work of this court in determining the merits of the appeal out as your arms to examine whether or not the fourth member is truly implicated by the fact pattern you have before you  think went through the process of analyzing that and which is really determining his order was that the the the result of mr du bos driving up a residential dirt road a ranch road vehicle i'm still in not sure that is there is an overly persuasive controlling factor it was a minivan the officer in this case testified that he typically sees rental cars minivans s u v s so that fact is present although i don't think it's the most persuasive sadler testified specifically not seen one vehicle not one vehicle the entire time he was up by the border to include his route through the very small town of most if you want to call it a town and back down to the more  highway the the actions of the of the officer in terms of falling on the stew bossa trying to gauge reaction i think are also compelled the border patrol officer in the vehicle being behind her by the testimony of the agent she turns on river road which is struggle to against partially populated and she continues to drive through dense fog accelerating away from the office or the point that he feels takes an abrupt left turn of someone's ranch a driveway immediately does a rapid u turn to come back down toward the border patrol agents driving up as judge wally thought i would see correctly he got it wasn't a stop it wasn't a fourth amendment implicated issue however at that point the looting the e v f certainly tip the scales where we would expect nothing else of the officer to say wait wait what's going on where you headed we know what is your business so of the circumstances but there are kids on obviously quite a bit of guidance out there and you know officers are allowed to rely on experience and training as part of their rationale for deciding to