only if there's case law on all fours right it should be substantially the the effect of the proposal should be substantially similar is what the  of the difference that the authority has identified is that there's no precedent dealing with the provision that that tells the employer if you have to do this this hour of work but you can do it whenever you didn't the authority interpreted as allowing the employees to do it to do that work whenever and getting exactly perfect but at the time of their choosing well but that's that is not what the fact finder found this fact and the impasse in the ministry of woodridge that they found two things number one that this case really wasn't about when the employees that way and that the employer knows this language and did not object to the fact that the employees could do the prep work at a time of their choosing that wasn't disputed and it does about two different hours of work the record is clear that the parking defense was talking about still wants the employees to perform this preparation work at home but without community you know i find this section one day and one be very confusing it's on page ninety three from wonder if you can walk me through that because unless i understand that i don't park bench but i do it so seven and a half hours they have to be on the promise yet read the next paragraph says you were taking into account one hour preparation and you don't have to be on the premises for that so  realization and the expectation that after the day is zero after the nd half i was over you're going to be performing that you do perform an extra hour of preparation work and the record is clear that assumption that they're going to be doing one our preparation now you say it's of the end of the day what is it and one b is that that says a can't be in the morning before they go to school it can be a it  doesn't address that at all it says it doesn't address when it only says we know you're doing an extra hour of work but then the other thing is it says that the agency reserves the right to second to last sentence of one b is an exception to one that it's basically we can keep you on a particular work day which has been interpreted be an occasion we can keep you at school for certain kinds of meetings on occasion on a particular day that's been interpreted by over traders not in a regular recurring basis now we've got to remember that that the crux of th they get it they get paid a little bit more i guess for pros one for a loop business phrase that this hour and i don't know what they're talking about there are they talking about the eight hour one hour preparation good talking about the summer and a half consideration in fixing your annual compensation usually we can have you stay at school for an extra hour a day displacing on those  particular work days the compensated preparation time again for us and how does that interact with the zero dollars five cents you mentioned the not more than ten general faculty meetings and the not more than ten general faculty meetings are a permissible sub categories of activities that the employer may direct employees to do one is up to ten faculty meetings and the other is on particular work days training staff development faculty meetings correct and the particular work there's been interpreted to be not a regular ongoing basis that's correct so on a regular ongoing basis if the employer wants to say look we're going to do upgrading we're going to long term planning we need you to do committee service and we need you to be there for one or two hours after work but also the employer also has the prerogative to schedule that but in keeping with the duty day definition for purposes of the wage they have to pay extra cool right at home not time  not render this issue negotiable if if there were a savings clause that that the parties had bargained for here that made the one hour of prep time at a time of the employees choosing subject to the employer's right to require that eight hour of the duty day the preparation be done at a particular time is it your understanding that that would be legally permissible and that that would result in the problem that they have in the story so recommending the mountain that the authority prevails and you have to go back to the drawing board yes would it solve the problem as you understand it and i understand you resist their view of the laws i'm not going to hold you to any concessions because i ask you the same thing why they went on remand would the problem be resolved by simply negotiating that the preparation time that the employees may serve at a time of their choosing and is subject to the employer's right to require that their preparation be done at a particular time in other control over when the work happens and all i'm saying is ok so could they reserve the control over when that work happens with the savings is that said employees may do their prep at a time of their choosing that who work for their preparation work that the employer would say do your preparation work before dinner or do your preparation work at a particular time and that wouldn't affect how you interpret the obligations and prerogatives with respect to the after school meetings or train or what happened with your terms of this agreement what government which are paid the winter not paid what i take it that they are raising a rather formal objection hasn't really been a practical matter between the parties but it nonetheless goes to jurisdiction well my resistant to  will is that formalism telling the parties to go back and negotiate or for this formalism we're at the end of this contract is going to throw out the the the pay raises and the teachers were supposed to get for the past four years back to square one with a contract the opening next year the if the schoolteacher under one day is required to be on the premises for seven and a half hours each work  clause in the contract that says they do get some prep time built into their school bit into that so that's another so they could be under going to this they could be doing this one hour prep time before school in the morning right they can be doing it during school be when they're not involved in teaching at the school they can be doing it after they finish their teaching at the school or they could do it at home at night but they can't do it during the community superintendent testified and it's in the back on this report that the teachers spend at least an hour a day at home at home doing lesson plans grading tests dettori as a basis back in two thousand and eleven there was a federal employee pay freeze that didn't apply to these teachers because this summer is a separate stature but to make it look like they weren't getting a pay freeze they got we negotiate eight get at the same issue the judge hillard was pressing on a different way of thinking about it which is the contractor says you have to work seven and a half hours you have to have to be on the premises seven and a half hours and it says and working seven and then it says we soon you'll be working an eight hour and it says sometimes that can be on the premises for things like faculty meetings but that's the exception right and generally speaking employees can do the can do the eight the hour off armistice isn't it isn't the most reasonable reading of that scheme that the teachers are given discretion with regard to that that eight hour when they are not on the premises for things like faculty meetings that they have to scratch and not only with respect to where they work but also with respect to when they work they don't have discretion if you read three d with it the employer can say we want you to do your lesson plans and everything you are going to my sweet home we want you to do it in the school building after the nd half hour day if they do that they have to team why with the why would the employer care whether the teacher when the teacher is spending an hour a day at home grading papers whether the imply that this contract leaves to the teachers the question not just of where to work but also when to work the employer obviates our one on one thing because what deal d wants them to do is they want them to work a nine thing that's what everybody understood is everybody except the two member majority of the authority understood that  admission all above and beyond the eight hours in a plus b my my resistance to that reading is that we have a whole bargain history record with this with this fact going to report from two years from from the two contracts fully laying out what the parties intent words and how woods to operate and what the different hours and pay was war plus we have to faculty meetings or whatever right we cystic you do it immediately after the your last class we just we want that homework graded asap so you must do  description because if you look at and t you just the principal authority on which the authority relies on the provision they're expressly sad that whether the field work  employee performs work before or after visiting an alternative workplace shall be at the discretion of the field employees so actually allocating to the employees of c v a protective choice whereas in this case practically has never in this case ever expressed so it seems like the i'm the authority to correct me if i'm wrong is taking this very formal view picking up on a problem that neither pur will be paid the employer has never been interested whether that be done before dinner after dinner late at night early in the morning before going to work but the authority you know perhaps reasonabl reserves the employee's discretion as to when to perform their hour of preparation and planning and as the argument here today has continued to underscore is the petitioners view that it is only if they pay for nine hours compensation that the school can request that the president planning and preparation occur at the beginning or at the end of the school day on the work site and that's not just sign them to a faculty meeting or anything of that nature that is simply to have an hour of work performed continuously so continuously the hours and the engine direct those employees to perform that planning and preparation work at the end of the school day would require additional compensation and that is what is violent of management's rights which ar saw on the record was be employer substituting different activities for the paid prep work and saying we're going to pay you for those different activities rather work and then the we want to control when you do the prep work as such your honor and your is correct that that is part of what the agency has been arguing that they want to have more control d over exactly what tasks are assigned but that is not  gordie howe the difficulty is that the employer her lacks the ability to tell the employees when to do their prep work yes that is correct and i question why that is if neither of the parties here read the agreement that way well it contract was violated the management's rights and if they went back to the drawing board and everything else about the fact finders order were  and they said we're going to agree to all of that and we're also going to add the savings clogs to the effect that the assignment of the end of the th hour of the due date for prep work aside put aside the party's positions just read the contract if the contract is signed on on this point we've been discussing we choose when the teachers have to do the eight hours of prep work if if one interpretation makes the contract on lawful and another one makes it lawful why wouldn't you be the exact terms of any party what right is that contract but it has been the practice between these curries and undisputed assertion throughout the arguments for the agency or the authority by the agency that this allows sole discretion to the employees to determine and the question i think i have a question and it may be beyond the beyond the record in this case but the employer has an interest in managing the work yes sir and the reason that the immediately post school hour has been at issue is because the employer has other things other than property that it  require during that period yes or is it is it correct this is my understanding of the record that the employees and their representatives have never said no you can not authority here looked at what was written and in fact in a way that is very similar to the case and there are the parties that actually were accused what was kind of standard practice between police and agencies to writing but that reduction to the contract still violated we as humans right to assign work a lot of lives regardless of whether it's occasionally the practice of an agency to allow certain types of discretion and even with the changes in post here the agency may still choose to leave the discretion of the teachers from time to time when they perform their planning work but it is not permissible under the statute and authorities precedent to inscribe that into a collective bargaining agreement and you seem different to me or  interpretation both parties hold of this contract is that it is the discretion of the employees to determine when to do their planning and preparation work and all the be that as it may be i think the union disputes that reading the record but we can he work and you had pay implications basically if the implant did fifteen minutes or more of work at the primary duty station before community to an alternate duty station then call commute time would be paid whereas if they went straight to the alternative you see what you get paid for that so they're basically putting in the employee's hand you know i speak of i'm going to do work to get additional paid or not which is been that if the employer or the agency here wanted to assign the th hour of paid compensation work to be completed at the end of the work day and that that work and the only work done during that time is plenty of preparation the u says i don't have a site that i can immediately give to you for this but this is it's what was said by counsel in his argument here today and this is the crux of the argument about section three d in the contract as well as  other provisions in section one a is that because there are these other things that allow the parties to do this additional compensate compensation for in one thousand or work during the week which is actually just an eight hour control when the planning and preparation hour is conducted is not acceptable at the jacket and the linchpin of your administrative order with regard to and your opponents say this is a very big let's see the this is a very obvious error because you're quoting your quote you're treating it's a panel finding something that was just a position of one of the parties and the response to that is well it was under some you did so to me this case might come down to the question whether dot proposition was or wasn't spewed before the agency you know he hasn't been you haven't given me any great textual reason to think the contract is about when rather than where so you're the issue and so from the beginning that's why the authority addressed its decision that this was so dissimilar to prior language that it was wired that it hurt remove the ability of the panel to actually impose it and then as  is an agreement everything is relates to everything else and we can't say with titles with a bow even on the things that that's why they call a tentative agreement and therefore let's bring the whole package there's nothing what would you thought was not sent that would all the effort and time that everybody went into over the years to put this together to go back and have to renegotiate salary and everything else when this contract is about to expire with regard to the ten issue i think that that issue is a little bit more simpler than it really needs than it's really been portrayed we need to remember that there were two unfair labor practice here is here a violation of fine violation because by the time the panel decision had been issued everything else had been agreed to we were at the end of the road we had completed a contract and the agency had an obligation execute and implement the contract regardless of whether or when the employees do the do this perp work at all is we need to remember that the f l array has ruled that one that is negotiable and enforceable and that's the language that's been previously in the earlier cases that you can negotiate a cap on the number of hours you spend at school with that additional compensation that is not in dispute ok and to say that we can keep you an extra hour and that's all right that cannot be reconciled with the negotiable of the of a cap on the number of hours just take a day off during the school year that which is all subject to the employers you know the employer the employer it's the comp time the teacher doesn't have the right to take it any time they want and so come time is always subject to the principal saying y