november second from south kills on a company with a letter narrative from director where it's also see it's a proposed ordinance a letter from ford lawn authorizing the application and finally a letter from order is paying attention would you please where anyone who raises their hand and say they will offer testimony believe me my name is stephen victor i'm here with great northman who's the president south hills honda and we're here to present you the information that will lead you to make your property that we're looking to expand next we have a zone a map i think it was on a map showing washington road route nineteen and along which you can see the yellow area as they see to property within peter's township you can see that it is an irregular shaped area running parallel to route nineteen and the depth of it is typically the depth of the lot fronting the property the area of rezoning is this small one point nine four acres here that's coming out of the forest lawn property next is a photograph of washington road the forest lawn property here and the south hills on that site as it is today next the rezone area is the one point nine four acres in the north westerly corner of the forest lawn property that isn't a problem it is an area in which there are no very old sites or internments at this time it's just part of the future growth areas that had been reserved for the cemetery but the cemetery has more than ample room and they feel it would be a good thing to make this available to south wales hanta again south wales hollandaise here a not all of the forest lawn property is owned our one forest lawn also a few years back rezoned this portion of their property to see to as well next part of the reason for i should say really the main reason that we are looking for the rezoning is that the south hills honda dealership has been very successful and needs to enlarge to continue to operate at its location currently there  are three buildings on the site i want to solve central and northern end of the site what we're looking to do is go between the second and third building and build a brand new state of the our dealership in that it particular expansion that would take place is that the rear portion of the site will become used for service i point that out in that it's not going to be forced display and sales of new vehicles fortan so that is that it will have a different level of lighting everyone knows that lighting a longer one thousand nine hundred ships is brighter where you're demonstrate where you're presenting those vehicles here in the back will only be during the hours of operate basically from seven to six would be the hours of operation so that this area of the site would not have the same levels of lighting that you would in the front and again it would be accessed by a new ramp to take us down to the lower level there is a significant great change between the roof nineteen and the forest lawn property so it will ramp down and this will be at the lower level basically in the basement if you would have the new facility next then brings us back to what we're asking for again the one point nine four acres located here to expand as part of the south wales on the site any questions or on the on the photograph here you'll see the dark blue would be the area in which the dealership would be located where the new vehicles would be sold and serviced new salespeople be in there on the basement level we're looking at the service being located here so the driveway came in on the back so what we're looking at is employing a parking and service vehicle parking in the rear so what you see as right there yes yes some of that is employee parking some of it is areas slated for service vehicles but no public parking would be in be occurring or display or storage of vehicles will take place there mr victor on the slide you're sh is their service area now where is that mccain on the current currently that service occurs in three different locations i talked about the three buildings one two and three the first building service so we're able to combine those all and bring over services to the lower level you can see that there are areas and probably it's maybe hidden writing here or in here where the eccles today are stacked sometimes three four or five cars deep to get them yes it does provides additional service ehrman display area for vehicles new vehicles and used vehicles but probably in a more efficient and pleasing fashion i would point out as we did at the planning commission that in addition to this site south wales honda is currently receiving site plan approval in cecil township for an offsite facility for the stor vehicles so not all of the new vehicles will necessarily need to be stored here anymore we'll be able to store a significant number of the new vehicles off site and then a buyer can come in that look at that and then when they choose a particular vehicle but say now i wanted to end the loop as opposed to the light when we have on the showroom we can go offsite and within ten minutes have it on the have it on location of those established the boundary lines of the acquisition that we did not encroach into the area and which they could have future mausoleum growth but the area of rezoning occurred to the south the last muscly and that was in this area and my understanding is they rezoned it to have a funeral home facility and there but it was never constructed as it could be a look at the municipal zoning map  to the east northeast of the current partner facility and i'd like to point out to council that there's already existing conditions that negative impact so we deal with from the two car dealers on the east side of nineteen and that is of the noises we hear announcements on wild speakers who hear that during the day when the lights are very bright at night and they stay out all night in their very bright colors already negative impacts that we experience here and then find you and then club you kind of goes along the cemetery property as well so i guess my point is it's not just the people on grand view that don't experience if it does go further into the neighborhood and secondly i'd like to say i mean it's great that the business can expand i just think it should be done commercially soundly and it's my belief that  taking away residential land i don't think it's a positive effect on the township right now and in a broader sense you know the actions in august we know that when gas drilling does occur that there's going be a whole lot of significant for me you are also higher than these people for forty feet  allowed to return to redo the facility here will be coming back through foresight plan approval during that time the township will have full review of all the functions but probably more importantly lighty so all the lighting facilities would be replaced and we would get state of the art down lighting which is significantly different then some of the lighting that even might have gone with the act recently had acquired the dealership so he dialed it way down and it is used and but he's never had a complaint sense that there may be other dealerships along that strip that do use a louder volume but it's not it's not used part of the reason for that because we have three scattered facilities we may get service people running between any one of them so oftentimes a general call goes out for someone or a salesman with a would i would point out that the current zone in line for the sea to district comes all the way back to this point and it is that line that we have continued out of that  rezoning will not encroach any deeper than the current sea tos boundary along route one teen as it exists today so no increase has no increase be beyond the existing line as it is today ye wanted to see what it would look like what a buffer and would occur along there so we've shown on our site plan that there would be a six foot high fence surrounding all of our paved area and then in addition to that on their side of the fence would be a cabin ation of trees and shrubs to further screening that area so again that will be looked at in detail with the site plan review process but it it from a private property matter it is part of our obligation to forest lawn to install that they don't want to get it back but they've been looking at the back of our building quite honestly for was an earlier schematic and we're currently working with an architect not on the local architect but honda's national architects there made some further refinements to the drawings so when we come back again you will see face out to the cemetery itself and in fact the back side of the building is extremely plain and what they've done attracted but it's an extremely plain building the same thing with the older mo or not what we did want to do make perfectly clear to the people from forest lawn and i think we successfully did it in in that they've agreed to sell us this property and we respected the serenity that goes on when they are having a service within their facility or even when friends and relatives come to visit great sites and so we wanted to respect that and be a good neighbor with them during nap those sorts of  there are there are certain things that won't occur there because of the topographic differences the forest lawn property sits a good twenty feet below the route one thousand area so the high visibility sometimes less desirable highway commercial activities fast food banks and sector that you might see or might want to be located in a long road here will not find that area very suitable so i can't see it is turning into a highly undesirable area if it was not used for the dealership any access to there is your it it is only through our property there is no access through this through the forest circle our statement the word should be cost not coast the minutes are technically correct because counsel agreed that the poll had to be lived but i think that we directed mr sylvester that we wanted to have him pursue west ham to pay switch which anyone else please just one last thing about the reapportionment mr paul was kind enough to verbally read the proposal and counsel agreed that we would go forth with that but the verbiage that he read wasn't exactly that more we include the reapportionment statement as part of the minutes would even by the leave the final version that was approved once it was written to plainly at the motion carries seven zero the next would be the minutes from the january third two thousand and all january third with  firms one actually requested it six we sent cold we did not get any responses back from any of the firms since the last meeting two of the e p a has come out with perhaps react to an ordinance that was drafted by the township and instead of starting from scratch reacting and sort of critique it like that in a way to potentially because we have several examples that perhaps are are council run books eight fifty five the nation couple of items on my agenda this evening several meetings ago there was an item on the printed agenda dealing with the i c m a performance measure i believe it was mr sylvester who put that on the agenda to discuss i'd like to bring that up again because i think that's an issue that needs to be examined in front of you is a small two page article that i provided you because it's my understanding is some people on council may not feel it's appropriate to measure efficiency in government and  of course that maybe with one reason why our federal government isn't working too well but nonetheless i think it's important to measure efficiency in government when we had the public hearing on the budget i told you i felt that that needed to happen because it's a conscious effort to try and reasonably rein and over expenditures now given the fact that in the year two thousand and twenty we can expect to have fifty percent of the public not paying any income tax it's going to be diminished revenues for the township now of course the easy way out is just to simply increase the taxes i don't think that's appropriate because i think frankly we need a referendum that any tax increase has got to be approved on an election basis that aside i think you need to evaluate it i think a good effort to measure efficiency is not  wasted effort so please take that into consideration the other thing i provided you with is an article on license plate reading we're back to that again as you can see if you share do you care to peruse that article it talks about a private corporation which is saving all of the information for law enforcement in other words the manufacturer of these devices has decided to provide the communities that use them with off site location to store all the license plate information that they can gather well that's rank actually a loophole in the system because the police are not allowed to use these kinds of devices for a substitute to a g p s locator if anybody is following the news today the supreme court ruled on this you as a police officer can't put a g on a car an individual's car unless you have a warrant or not there is a shot from a court so i suggest that you take a look at this because the last thing i want is my information in the hands of a private corporation that can then set out and provide it to anybody and i would i would ask you to look at how efficiently our our license plate reading system is working and whether it's accomplished anything in the month that it's been in operation and whether or not we may be in a position of violet's loss given the recent supreme court decision i think that needs to be examined lastly at a question about  e the get together on they believe it was the fourth of january that you had with with the representatives to come fun not mistaken there was a quorum there now how did we get around the sunshine simply trying to get to know person who may be representing order and ok obviously my concern is that we make sure we apply the sunshine standard to as much of council business as possible because i think the public deserves that it is the law the other thing is that violating the law in any fashion either realistically or through perception leads to the public feeling that government is for lack of a better term corrupt so please keep that in mind and i thank you very much our only comment to there on that if there is any township in this area and they be the state pays more attention to the sunshine law than we do i'd like to know who it is well i hope that we're number one and i want to keep it that way thank you department professionalism inexpedient nature they conducted in my hat's off to the billing department to emilie and it was a great experience these people from the east coast they were used a lot of headaches and provide second separately that we could then remove in and and go with another bill this room once the contract is up later this year the dearborn proposal to liberty has a two year guarantee and doesn't need all our requirements they dated it modified one item that was missed and and based on the rates the monthly rate would be equivalent monthly rightly twenty five eleven and then the camel one that was a little that was what i was rushing to try to understand this afternoon from a short you'll notice on the polls will there be a short proposal for long term disability is significantly double the life they they could be any way they could provide that would be actually increased insurances and if you do that based on my quick analysis would put them at twenty seven seventeen which would be higher than the other  probably double that amount of times we have pretty experienced board each month for the past year we've discussed some major items throughout two thousand and eleven and you've received a belief from a sh a handout that kind of designate some of the different things i'm not going to go through each one of those but some of the major ones that we have discussed is the peters would project expansion project and these fields are almost complete ummer and this is been a project has been a long time coming many of the board members had the foresight and future planning and committed funds by purchasing additional property and it's finally coming to fruition so excited to see young girls on these fields start in the spring and summer with their coaches and parents and grandparents and is going be a lot of activity there the other item that we usually talk about is the lighting field project of staff members have met with the architect and also represented in the rec soccer and they're working on the design of a possible turf project and again as as we've discussed our board meetings something we feel is important it will give us more flexibility more opportunities for time for kids to use not only kids but adults by adding to the the lighting and also the turf the fact that more and more usage can be put on that field instead of shutting it down for periods of time because of where tear another one item that has been a major topic at our meetings is the background check policy and it's something that we're going to be discussing united see it's on the agenda so i don't think i want to get into that too much other than michelle has done a tremendous job during our meetings we've gone round and round what would be the best way to protect kids and the fact that she attended a national convention came back in and kind of explained what some of the other communities across country are don't want and i think she's done a very very good job of tweaking that and trying to come up with a policy we can all live with to protect our youth the recreation department  of them being this background check also occurred during follows the drainage was installed preparations were underway for new warning track one field number one and again this is an example of how when a association like the baseball so she a sion kind of spirit it with the funds but also the commitment that you gave to help support that and also the school district funds this is something that is going to protect kids that are using that field by getting a warning track in there this spring so that's something that i personally want to thank thank you for your support the recreation director and the because the photographs of the school are continuing to work very well together we feel  then this is a modest from the fact that we need to have our township and school districts working well together to share facilities many of our high school athletic teams are now for them to to continue to be successful they need the help of the recreation director and recreation program facilities and i think the same thing is true for the recreation programs they need the help of the school district one of the things i did that last fall if you can just give me a couple minutes men yourselves along with our recreation department for what you've done with eritrea but as we're going through this trip and we're passing all different types of people using it as far as ages children with their grandparents children with their families on bicycles roller blades and different things like that but what i really found was there was a there was an orange fence there that that evening it was beautiful evening and i  guess serving as part of the record i thought well ok i'll go around orange fence and i went up into that area and as i was coming up that area saw the new facility and i want to see the progress that facility and it was some that i was very very impressed with just kind of visualizing and realizing that hundreds of young ladies are going to be using that field for softball here in the in the future as early as the spring and summer but as i went past that and again it was beautiful evening in the fall and we passed a soccer field and there were hundreds of little soccer players first second third grade with moms and dads coaching and parents stand alongside one as i went past there i made a right i want pass off by our field and hope our field or or fourth fifth sixth graders with their football helmets on and dad's coaching in and right next that field was a cheerleading case and moms leading the cheerleaders and again a lot of parents to stand and standing around and visiting from the i passed the pavilion and there was probably seventy five hundred people there looked like a softball group that was having an end of the year fall program and picnic and right next to that was a an older group of girls practicing softball and on the other side of that fence was a group of first second third what i call little bubble heads that the football helmets on and they were practicing football as i went around the turn and i was overlooking the wrecks and i looked over to the left and there was a lighting piers with park there was a little league game going on and right next that field looked like there was a group of high school kids that were practicing fall ball there are probably half dozen kids using the the skateboard park bicycle skateboards and right next to that field there was a group of softball players so again as i went down the hill and i reconnected that trail as we're all going through that trial i think we all can feel ments amount of pride for what we have all done expression the use of council and the staff and what the done for the recreational needs of our community so i'd like to thank you for that and speaking for the board again we have many many more challenges as our community starts to grow and i think with the staff under the leadership  experience we have on that board and it's totally true and there are a lot of committed individuals on that board and i just want to make sure that i understand correctly what the board unanimous about turfing the field of field five's are correct yes and they understand the need in the the the benefits of turf and light basically negates the possibility of buying additional fields and developing to digital fields and you already have that field it's quite a complex and you know i've dealt through the years with with artificial turf you be representatives from the associations that night we do want to encourage them to educate themselves and to put into place a practice for their associations we don't govern them to that extent at this point now i guess if our board wanted to consider a policy that's something that i don't know if that's something that we could do but at this point we don't have anything to govern that but we are trying to get the word out there and encourage them to do something about  compliance because the step is not an easy step and it's not difficult as and physically but because of the fact that when you get your first check then you have to get a copy of that you know you have to go to the bank and get a money order you have to send it in and wait three to four weeks to get that back and you have to bring that to the parks and recreation department so that's that second step because of the fact that there's other systems out there that are one step online you don't have to leave your house you don't have to go to the bank and purchased money order and because of the fact that there are more in depth systems what the the n r p a recommends th a security verification and address trace a strip a state in criminal record check criminal or national criminal history database a sex offender registry search and they do it in a timely manner and the program that i recommend which was that coaches background is indorsed by the n r p a that does all of those things they can do it online the system is online they would be able to access it through the township website they will be able to pay with a credit card the cost the cost of the two checks that they're doing right now is ten dollars apiece so a total of twenty dollars this check would be a total of eight hundred fifty so i mean not a huge savings but they wouldn't have to pay more for the system the results come directly to the the pro with the website or let the program on my computer so they wouldn't have to mail it e mail it drop it off or anything it comes directly to me then we review their their background and add them to the list it's the same thing that we would do with the others but we don't have to wait for the paperwork to come to us it's going to be directly on the computer so it's a one step it's easy to do makes it nice for the sports associations because they don't have to paper chase makes it nice for the coaches in the volunteers because they don't have to go out of their way players yes yes and the results come back in two to four days the patch the system that we're doing right now if there's a hit on their record sometimes it comes back in a couple weeks or a week what have you usually if there's no record and the system isn't backlog it comes back pretty quickly but the second step would be like is that three to four weeks and so this would be two to four days and it would be all of it would be done michel i wanted to thank you and the board for pursuing this because i know that we're as a council very concerned about noncompliance and it seems as if you've come up with a solution that should really minimize any objection or any well in that system if the board had a felt the need to approve something for a group but the existing background checks will not go away i mean they'll be valid until their expiration date you're not going to do that now so you're going to down below it will say or other clearance programs approved by the parks and recreation board that would stay in there as an option as needed and mr chairman i had made a couple of suggestions to the document and actually sent them to m and mr sylvester before the meeting i don't know that you want to go through all of them at this time i think my understanding is that on its parking right needs to have some of our authorisation so that they can move forward and finish writing it system what i did was explain to them how to do the background checks and in till i get this actual program on my computer i didn't want to do it step by step because that haven't actually done it myself i want to get it in place and get it set up ready to go and figure out the actual step by step to be able to put it in here but i can't do that until i actually get the system on my computer and in order to do that we need to approve all this so that we would make a motion mr sylvester that we approve in through is is there or do you know if there's a future plan to actually accessed springdale here not this time that he could potentially exist just bring it just looks like a really funny shape and i wonder if you can all right the next one is a difficult question that five thirty seven appliance after this although we currently do not have additional taps allocated for this year and we we would be inclined to active by builders developers as to concerns about being able to proceed with from my perspective gentlemen i think that it's unfortunate that the d p has rendered this decision in fact i think the approval of this amendment or this revision to this proposal should be passed because it keeps intact the proposal that they're trying to move forward our failure to support that the one enhance their position it could potentially make it less positive but our approval o it won't necessarily offend the d p or cause any other issues that will allow them to propose package to be intact based on what they want to try to take forward and since we supported it initially on what i would like and there are a number of issues from what i've understood that they do intend to try to go forward and i think that that's the one of the reasons we need to support them and at least pass this so that part of the package stays intact the way they're arguing it so i'd like to make a will i would request their permission to be able to contact the d p to see what we can do about trying to get some of these taps and a larger process as well i would like to ask about that because where we have to and for poor management on the downstream community there are things that are going on in those communities that are inconsistent with the way d p is holding peter's timeship or peter's  currently making their way through the house and the senate in pennsylvania with regard to our o l and gas drilling so that we can keep ourselves on track right through this into and all people in western pennsylvania for that matter these two bills are basically two parts one one part of these bills deals with the fees that the state of pennsylvania proposes to extract from  distribution of the fees between state agencies and and counties and localities the other half of the bill which is more or less section thirty three of the bill townships with you with respect to the oil and gas industry that's when my i'm honest very many other charges local governments charged with providing for all safety and well for citizens concerns they don't have the same characteristics they don't have the same demographics we don't even have the same concerns and problems from one end of our township to the other much less across the state as far local zoning control these two bills proposed to do a number of things but no seriously in my mind it allows the attorney general to bring action against local governments if it is so limited that the local zoning ordinance  is not in compliance with the state law this makes our attorney general the attorney for the plaintiffs and which to me makes no sense at all if a local zoning ordinance is determined by the attorney general to be for permitted use it is not a not a not a condition of huge not anything else are permitted it also says that we have to allow seismic testing it says it that we cannot impose a number of restrictions one of which is on the hours of as to what specifically is good for us or not good for us as far as specific items and there are many of them but i just cited a few here they gave for photos of three hundred foot set backs from a structure for wells  ordinance and photos are significantly greater sent back and is five hundred or a thousand feet depending on which bill you're talking about as far as from from water wells and from public water supplies again that these two bills there is no consideration of a number of important things there's no consideration for the maximum well density of it specifies that you can see that there's a one well  number of acres you could have wells a number of wells in an area that far exceed the capability of that area to two to accommodate it in terms of a place like peter tatchell where we have residential properties split state issues split a state is where one person on the surface ration somebody else owns mineral rights under this condition under the law right now if you are minimal rights you have every out of a development is i think we've got a right to ask the gas developers to show us how they intend to develop where they're going to put wells where they're going to put compressor stations how they see their gathering systems and and there's also nothing in any of these plans to address shared resources lighting than to have three different companies with three different pipeline gathering systems and three different sets of right away ssion three different sets of dishes or property we went through this discussion the control always gives or to make this particular to our township it leads to uncertainty as far as land development how do we have a long range plan where we don't know where none of the benefits and what we've spent a long time working on just disappears announced updating where we are with this there are a number of us that have been very actively of elected officials from fifty different communities there a number of our council members attended where we discussed some of the same issues and i mentioned tonight we have been heavily lobbied lobbying our executive board of the pennsylvania state association of downshifts supervisors to try and ask them why they were represented is a lobbyist substantiates have not done more and have not been much more vocal and lines i don't know what he's going to do he said that he would he would give the information that we gave him to the various committee members again i  don't know what he's going to do but at least he's easy understands the problem and said he would work with us many local governments have passed resolutions opposing these bills  amendments to the senate bill if they don't do that if they if they do insist upon the amendments to the senate bill a conference committee has to be formed and the two bills go to the conference committee to hopefully work out the you know the differences and send it back to both palaces for fruitful unfortunately  suggested the fisa has and what we are suggesting to all of our legislators that we've been in contact with is that they split this bill into two pieces that they did they consider the funding part of it the fees separately from the preemption issue they can them and we have nothing to say about that is not a local issue no state issue so they need to consider that and then they then after that's done we come back and have a reasonable discussion about the preemption issue  we are continuing to lobby representatives of between the three or four of us that have been really active in this thing we probably have spoken personally to the guinness twenty or twenty five and senators unfortunately most of them do not understand the impact of these bills they don't they they really don't understand why preemption is a problem many of them have never served in local office decisively they've been extremely wishy washy and many of our representatives are hiding behind the fact that they're saying peace that she has no problem with this therefore we don't see said says no we didn't we didn't support it we asked them here touch with people and allies so you know that it's all there's a lot of activity a lot of action a lot of people are very much involved in it but it is a very serious concern and i think we need to  basis did i can you explain like what's going on years for you throughout our original intent was to build to build these all together but what we've run into particularly in the library is coming up we have a solution that is cost feasible constructable and as a result of that we decided to separate the projects from each other so that in fact we can we can move ahead in an immediate fashion to clean with the project in the in the rec center so so that we in fact can realign the a solution over here we decide to move ahead because that sounds reasonable thank you aligned rumble strips at three locations one two and three and the purpose of these are to keep people from crossing the lines a it's not a very wide street and one want to conclude it wasn't to be able to get the speed that are coming there if there are people going over the line so we're going to we're going to put the run the strips remind them where they're at as well as to install side lines that the actual edge of the field there is what will occur is you'll come to the edge of the field and then beyond the edge where the grass and will be a will be able to stand around that and then the distance between the theoretically blind areas i'm sorry i can't judge the scale what would be the between each of that say the ones on the last would be the distance between in here and feel fairly comfortable that we get a reasonably qualified contractor to install it but we've also seen that the third issue that we want to look at with the architect was what was the nature of the turf or who we want to put in traditionally with the grants the actual software association coaches or participants mark that line field they use whatever that material in the case of something like this are you going to have to have a parks and rec person do house just because of the nature of the turf is different than the grassroots little bit more and i don't say permanent but you don't you don't want to put it down and then try to get it up for it's not done correctly i mean i would have to because we're  indicated this would be for the primary use and the bigger field there would be available and we could paint lines on that that would be permanent first summer or permanent first season to accommodate an adult league or  other sports as well so what it was completely thought of when when that was designed because the fly in that to make the ball field so did the intention was to keep it so that it wasn't so congested with lines that it was unsightly and the more lines that you put in the more it takes away from the integrity of the fields so that's where we're at right now if you were given one we've also had a lot of interest from adult that actually built housing for these cats and are feeding and and you know are concerned well there's a group that issues from the goats up all people that had problems with the concession stand and the cats being around and going into the garbage and stuff and and then they're concerned about you know their interaction with the kids because there are they are very cats and not you tame cats but a dog  policies for can we get them online are they available online since then we have our we have them together now and i'm not sure if they are on line but we have one our system but we can do that  plan that was a combination plan submitted by mr over cash or as well as gateway for that we believe would meet the requirements basically says you know what type of method we're going to currently use to assess the these signs and that we will meet the mandated natural limits for replacement if we don't have that in place you know we'd be considered in violation the the act and i won't do anything that would jeopardize any liquid fuel fund there when we do only get so we're asking council to adopt the resolution we will probably come up with something issues one things we're considering we'd like to consider is the parking lot right after thomas there to the trail we'd like to close that during the construction because you know we haven't we have had issues of people backing traffic up trying to make a left turn into there and we think if we just put a sign saying no the afternoon it's not really going to work and we'd like to close that parking lot off until the construction