i mean the case for argument is eighteen one six nine seven ridge imposed versus was simply related to the delivery of targeted content unfortunately he didn't bother to look at the claims to find out how that was done for example he admitted in his order that there was prior art technology out there like cookies like ip addresses that have been used to deliver targeted content in the past either by way of a of a newspaper or a commercial and it was generalized that evolved into being able to deliver content to someone again that was an approach that was discussed after the internet came into being cookies were employed and cookies were significant because cookies attached to the user device and it was a point to point that is to say with me uses device to the particular website that was being accessed and the problem with cookies was you were able to get all sorts of personal information eligible and cookies are involved in the same process right the difference is this is much more than merely passing information  to the content provider where i am that it is not true that even if that's a clever idea yes adding an abstraction to an abstraction doesn't change the fact that the abstract as well if you say i'm adding a and you look specifically at save figure two you will see on the left side you have access devices on the right size you would have very specific devices that are required for example there is a c r server consumer relationship servers that consume release of server has to be there and it has to do certain specific things if those things are done you that's but in addition to that you also have information about location and time and it also has to be developed so for example if you are at starbucks and you go through an access point you are able at that point using this technology to recognize that you are at starbucks in washington d c at a certain time and that perhaps next door there is and in our case we developed an approach where you use the h t t p of ten and you were able to provide information the information i remember these tags are primarily for now if we go to the next one which is seven four seven that is a different technique it talks about how you develop ten x that would be useful for implementing this particular scheme and in fact what happens is you get location from the time information server you have it stored in a location where it can be encrypted provided a media outlet and if they choose they can then target you but you have to have this tagging information in order to accomplish that the some forty seven the only one of the three patents that actually claims as i understand it the inclusion of this information in the h t t p header so that that that has a degree of specificity it seems to me that for example the system and it provides sufficient detail and it talks about providing you get the demographic information is provided to the server computer in the form of user profile data and the location is provided to the server computer in the form then one of more characteristics and then you have to retrieve historic information that's also on the internet and then you have to use that information to determine how many times and locations the particular persistent identifier is in use and then once that's done then you generate that user profile based upon a stored information and then you store the user profile up as a record that has been identified that then identifies the user then used in conventional ways you know i don't understand your argument with respect to the five hundred forty three one for things one for yes or i'm having more trouble with your argument as applied to the seven forty seven because there are and that's the one that has the h t t p header in the are id goes into is gets encrypted could in theory that sounds specific to me that sounds like something that gets far beyond the generic functional sounding language that used in the claims asserted from the other path ok so one your honor is correct that that is the same for seven is the only one has the issue that you're raising but i still don't think it changes the analysis and here's why for a number of reasons one seven four seven is still obsessed is still actually directed to an abstract idea of you know transmitting user information using encryption even if that's true i sn't it doing it in a very specific way is that saying we could do this in any number of ways and the other claims don't limit the ways that can be done that we here are doing it by by taking the information technology and then maybe perhaps more importantly to your honor's question the specification makes clear that is a conventional use of the h t t p header is best vacation makes clear that h t t p h t t p headers already contain user information and they're just putting additional user information into blank space if this were secured mail and secured mail had just taking the barcode and putting on a blank space on the omlet this is just taking that same abstract idea and putting it in a blank space in the h t t p header that's already used in that very way i can point your honor to a place in a specification were talks about just the standard use of the h t t p head p requests include various content fields including headers and data fields which accommodate incremental information from the networks the a t p header is already used to add information this is just adding this is not changing in kind so i mean that an advantage of the pattern in other words what the patents the cleverness here if there is is that we've taking the technology that's already out there we don't have to make any big changes but we're exploiting a feature that hasn't again by hypothesis been exploited before and doing something that hasn't been done before by using already existing technology the the h t t p header but implementing the abstract idea which is the tagging tagging is the abstract idea this is like with column nine forty to forty two the h t t p header also includes one or more extensible fields that are essentially blank but can be used to store additional nature so it's not so unlike and cora so he points and which came out after i read brief we address it in her between j letter but in korea is different because in korea is is using the bios in a way that the bios has never been used before to improve the function of the computer itself so those are two distinct differences between what's going on here t p header which the specification makes clear it is just an ordinary conventional use of the h t t p header which is to put information about the user in it and transmit it along with the traffic like the rest the information that's already in the header to go along as a tag just to implement the abstract idea from secured mail and cora uses the bios in a way that the bios has the court concluded not been used before to include information unlike a different kind biases ever been used before this is the same kind this is using the a t p had to carry the same kind of information the h t t p header already is used to carry is not coming up with any new new way unconventional way of doing it it's just implementing the abstract idea using conventional technology so i can take secured mail and do it on internet traffic that that's it it's not so even if it is a new clever place and hasn't been put there for the new clever idea isn't enough to get you out of abstract ineligibility if all you're doing is implementing the abstract idea which tagging is it if it's new and clever probably isn't conventionally keen it was what is the conventional routine and well no no i think there's a difference between the two your honor one is like it's a new idea to tag the information secured mail could have been a new idea the barcode putting the bar codes and all that to be a new idea could be beneficial in some way but it doesn't make the use your answer be different if in fact no one had actually put this kind of information in an h t t p headers before it was sitting there unused and the patent says we've got thought that that took it out of from ineligibility to eligibility i don't think so and this is no different than that empty space in the h t t p headers but i do think it does help us that the specification makes clear that it already carries information about the user's browser in it including you know information about the user is already flowing with the traffic and there so they make an idea that they intercept and they make assertions that somehow they're rerouting the traffic but they're not running the traffic the traffic is going the same way it always goes from the user's request on conventional technology through a conventional router and that's nothing can be any router it's through the router to the content provider the traffic just goes right through that and the in the h t t p headers is traveling with that in the ordinary way and they just propose adding additional information to that header of the same ilk that's already there and that is just implementing the abstract idea on generic technology in a conventional way which is not enough to it's not enough to make it will the i mean i'm happy to answer additional questions about that we're still look you three fourteen is falling into the same category the three fourteen is is i think the abstract idea from secured mail and so all the things i said about the seven four seven patent apply to the three one four except it doesn't as your honor recognized out of the abstract world and there's nothing unconventional about it the way that they've implemented it in either i think the three one four or this i'm four seven patents so basically the whole discussion i have with you about the  they're not changing they're not changing the way the traffic goes it goes in the same exact way they're just it's just really take secured mail and take in and create some information about the sender and have it flow along with the man so targeted as to them there's it's there's nothing claim special there they don't claim to them than any of the technology they don't claim to have and then in the technology names and then so then i would say that's on that and then the three one four in the seven four seven are that they are the abstract idea from secured mail which is just taking information about the sender encrypting some information into it and then sending information in response to that and that they implement that with generic technology in conventional ways and then you know we've already had the discussion about why i think the use of using h t t p headers just the conventional use of eighty people he had or narrowing it down to a specific detail like that doesn't you were able to create a profile from the network not from the device this is all on the network side and the reason it's important is to fold one anonymity to privacy so this is all being done on the network side and it does not include personal information which again is an improvement over what had been done before and since it can only be created by the network the user is not involved in that process and using the identifier for that approach creates the system that we believe is unique you heard counsel say that this is just like using a stamp in uk it is not a bucket of arc it's not because you can't use a barcode on the internet you have to be able to track the some device in order to be able to identify what it is you want to target for then individual that simply cannot be done in a conventional way what was done about is this just software us it no it's harder in software but it's the case is no different than what happened in d d r it's no different this is a solution that allows you to market in ways it can never be done before and it's easy to say oh everybody knows marketing well that may be true but you cannot market on the internet one no one if you want to find out what a person is doing everywhere they go