so the primary issue in this case is whether the i r s reclassification of the villages fire department was lawful in particular was unlawful where there is where the iraqis had knowingly classified those as fire department in a certain manner for over fifty years with sword before suddenly reclassifying it the agent manual and it places musical fire departments into various classifications in this case it placed the villages fire department as proof for fire fighters hundred ninety s at that point the village affirmatively reached out to i am around and said you know are are are fire departments comprised of part time firefighters we don't have any full time firefighters established a fire pension fund and i am are created this crew for fire fire classification and report fire fire classification it doesn't simply say if you have a fire en five thousand and they have not established a fire pension fund doesn't there isn't one it yeah yeah there are over five thousand and they don't have a fire pension fund they fit squarely within this group or firefighter definition and then it goes on to say that governmental think so and i don't think it does because i think going back again this is decades and decades they created an exception for communities that were under five thousand at the time they came under social security and that as a reasonable exception to the requirements of the pension code that employers employees who work thousand hours from work have to dissipate and i am around the exceptions for firefighters for these particular minister howell's and they've interpreted it this way for decades and decades and decades and decades and suddenly whether it's political pressures pressures to make sure they're fun down to secure or whatever the reasons they came back without any pursue the t v reason and said aha you have a fire pension over fifty years conflicts with the statute and isn't boyd as to any municipalities that don't have fire pension funds i would agree with your stop of the same plight but i think this acts as a grandfathering cost of sorts for these communities that were regulation and light in the language of article seven and in the light of which you're entitled to do years and years of interim interpretation by the ministry of agency charged with enforcing it i think you can reach a conclusion that fire engine they anticipated that you may not have a fire engine and this is a valid session to the pension  in for fifty three years because we set up a fire department reliance on this in the words of the arm around border and they hurt our administrators are human this is a multimillion dollar will have a multimillion dollar impact on the case the village would continue his operations of having a hard time fire fire department with no fire engine but it is part time firefighters would not participate in iraq all of its other part time employees do participate in iraq if they were over a thousand dollars thank you thank you and you have the opportunity to address the city council for the trustees of the case may be cheryl sterilisation a minister of firefighters pension fund as prescribed in this article and if you go to section four one of three that defines municipalities and the city township village or incorporated town of five thousand or more but less than five hundred thousand inhabitants and the fire protection district having full time paid firefighters therefore there is two things that are necessary to be required by law under article four of the pension code to create a was in good form previously since that he meant it i feel i can explain it it does seem to indicate that it would mean you don't necessarily have to establish a fire pension fund but if you read that group for section of of their fire department there the administrators and west might have been going back and forth with department insurance as to whether or not these individuals were indeed firefighters and their full time and do they have to create a fire pension fund and west my her view is they're not firefighters they are regular employees they should be unrolled and i am so midwest mine came to our benefit review committee and we held a hearing on the full time members and i are unfit for a few committee agreed that they weren't necessarily firefighters performing fire protection duties and that they could remain enrolled and i am are after it was during this hearing they i r s discovered that was not took the position that it wasn't required by law to create a fire pension fund so  the question of whether they would require to create a fire pension fund has been something that's been an issue between must not and the department of insurance for some time and there are letters in the record  that support that what might have previously taken the position that they weren't required by law and so this when this issue came up and i are relaxed here wait a sec there actually was municipalities out there who only have part time firefighters they don't have or recently decided the same and you know you can't diminish your fear but not only yeah they look at it like this is a contract when you enter into your position as a state employee you players forget to enroll an individual and i are goes out and does an audience finds out wait a minute this is this person this employee has been working a dozen hours yet they have ben and roll their entitle to go back and have that time reported because i could i mean and i can't even begin to manage the imagine the amount of money that is due i am our af well you know our point is that west nile doesn't necessarily have to employ these individuals for a thousand hours pension fund they don't have anybody and i am r now we've got a class six with ten municipalities that are have been designated the majority of those have been rolled their part time firefighters without any question so that we believe the steps toward missions are not the village isn't going to have to write a check to iraq what happens is their employer reserves will be charged for that amount and so the rate of their contribution may be impacted their ultimate employer contribution every year is determined by impacted and it's difficult to say by how much because we don't really have those numbers now who would be and rolled told them and they affirmatively put the village firefighters into a certain patient years later we told them again this is a mistake they didn't do what they were doing they are very professional fine to administer a state statute to now hold the rug out from underneath westmont and say you know we're going to change the way we interpreted our regulation  a cost to the village no matter how you look at it if you go back retroactively it's really impairing you're right that the an expectation are right that the village and what about the firefighters working over a thousand hours that you're talking about are right that they it was not i would i don't want to use the term ignored but mistakenly they were entitled to that they were benefiting from all these years well that's another way to look at it i guess so i mean these guys all work full argument why did he go to the trouble to say when they created your group or a firefighter question cation that these are communities once upon a time under five thousand a population that kean jr agreement with the social over five thousand at the time you came under an agreement with social security what's the difference well they thought there was a difference that's why they classified the village in that manner i