there that were in a block the county at the time of the debt or filed bankruptcy or to be considered in computing the debtors nonconsensual liquidated unsecured yes for purposes of our position is that let's take this one two steps first the claim against the claim as framed by the complaint was that these very two hundred thirty one thousand dollars is i think she was claiming that she was owed this money in specie i don't think it's any different than if we're talking about a thing rather than that this was say a stock certificate and mr gra a lien against property of the estate if you are taking that position that mr grayson is still out of interest in the property and that the older it is then by placing the property in the custody of the court she effectively property into its custody to assure that there will be a finding against which the creditor can collect assuming the creditor obtains a judgment at the conclusion of the case and take this is essentially the same thing i mean clearly the same thing i mean the problem here is that we don't know what if any of the two hundred thirty thousand dollars is mr grayson or not and we don't know how much that debt is to stand on because the court hasn't made that determination but isn't that always the question in a prejudgment attached when you attach a property prior to the judgment and ultimately when the court determines that you've got to make some kind of  what portion of the money that had been used to invest in the three real estate parcels was grayson's money whether any of mr not his money was involved you know what expenses were fairly attributable to w clearly an liquidated in that sense we don't know whether or not he owes or anything at all at this point to leave once when the money was put into the of him you know we dumped it we won't know that until it isn't that different from first bank coming in with a mortgage for one hundred whatever two hundred thirty thousand dollars and here's here's our arnold secured by the deed of trust and we want prejudgment attachment of this race that we than simple contract as i mean one of the requirements would be a debt incurred by fraud which is essentially what we're talking about here and i would also suggest in answer to your honor's other question that the standard for  and superior court is far and it is to taint and attachment and she has to make the same showing big one of the requirements of a plenary injunction in washington which we're talking about here is the likelihood of prevailing on the merits in the question know what's what is in the this day is mr grayson's claim to the money and i think that's what the effect would be you would have the contingent claim that his beneficial interest in whatever this raises is to the extent the stablished by the court is i'd like to reserve the rest of my time certainly half for the years with mr graves to do that and she made a showing that he engaged in fraud with the money and then she said and here's two hundred thirty thousand that we know that he's getting from these three r big contracts will you please impound those funds until we can determine who has title i actually believe there's probably no convincing at that juncture of the trial courts and subsidies for munitions were made primarily in the b at that point is blustering what the part is that subsequently after the original order was violated and a period of time passed then the part then then the ordered list what appears in the next sort of records is simply continuing  mystic contracts that have been assigned out as security to a party and the proceeds that were being paid were being paid over to this party and so the order dealt with those pro contracts were paying off was so you're saying this was drained of a negotiated stipulations among the parties that was presented to the superior court for entry simply to the holding of the funds of the attorneys trust could be that i agree with you if i decide to mortgage my house i'm voluntarily giving the bank a security interest in my house just secure that loan but why can't why can't we declare that this kind of agreement falls under the definition of a judicial lien it's not the man or whether there's a judgment so much but the manner in which the the way that lien is created you have wings that are created under the bankruptcy code by statute mechanic's lien being a typical w agreement between the parties and then a form of order presented to the secure or to approve what the parties have agreed to do with the tag line being that the funds will be held in any further order of the court but certainly funds i can i can agree with your last statement i would have to say that i'm not really clear under the circumstances clearly there were two prior injunctive waters that were entered in this case and that is it was perhaps some civil contempt and it was that there was that there is a suggestion that there was a civil contempt motion threatened and or pending at the time the agreement was entered into so just to knock a has based upon whatever interest she had changed by virtue of the order and i think that's practically what happened and that's what the bankruptcy court will because it whole timidly held that she had a direct interest in this fund this is not a sack that it would go to church at the expense found the court found that she had an interest in those funds so it would not go to the pot to creditors there's no way you could go to the positive creditors unless that injunction that was entered in the sapir of court was water if she would receive payment added that raised at supreme clues in the trial in the bankruptcy court should that trial have been determined in her favor as it was do you have any background theory behind the bill the theory is that for people who have debts under a certain amount that there should be a more simple full proceed you are then having to go through the full organization reorganization of chapter eleven and then we had for many years the dispute whether an individual could file a chapter eleven so congress or the peers wanted to create a simplified procedure for people who did not have a significant amount of liquid a debt in truth what happens and many we find in many cases we have debtors coming in with four and five million dollars worth of debt but it's on liquid it is an unsecured which is essentially the same situation that we have in this case