is there anybody in the audience who would like to speak about anything not on the agenda tonight commission i can or step down because of some frustrations that i felt during that so i felt this commission we were mostly reactive reacting to applications to deadlines updating the land development code and i felt that one thing that we missed out on was as commissioners was really trying to educate ourselves about planning process is looking at we talked about and felt that we should really delve into a lot more i think for us to be better commissioners we need to be educated look at things differently we signed up as a prices are in flanders the last time this happened with the my last building a five corners there was a conversation about you know we probably should have brought the community more into it this time i don't see it happening either so i have a question about that watching this brilliant and has confronted the proposed development of religion square mile they've been many many public meetings and were able and willing to listen to their citizens as they had questions f so that's number one number two is i want to know what happened to the plan that came out of the show as was it a year enough to go robin or this summer planning meeting when we all went to high school and spent the day bulls but they also pretend to the vision that the citizen spent a day devising so i don't want to have to come back in a year and when this is all approved and all the buildings are built in it's too late so i have a question about that  also i have a question about walkability where we were told years ago when the mile of building and all of the traffic concerns were being discussed we went to act two fifty walkability wife and increased density were the two main reasons for allowing these developments to go through absolutely agree with increasing density we don't want more scrawl in our state walkability absolutely i've been walking this village for the last six months from one corner to the other many times the lack of crosswalks and the last respect for pedestrians in the crosswalks and the lack of sidewalks on many many side street is hollow so i would like those addressed as these projects have been considered so i don't know if they make changes this agenda or if they're separate thank you very much just read either i apologize but when you do speak tonight could you if you could just tell us where you are going to be great so i did just that as an aside also please there's a lot of folks that want to speak here tonight so can we just make sure that we try to limit our comments certain piece of information before we get into everything i'm going to ask robin to comment on the changes that have been made in the most or changes were so i think change is on the on the west side added some zoom more detail in on the overhead throw along that arc wire and remove the sidewalk along this stretch and added a solid variance with some  this particular plan i feel meets the basic basic minimum requirements for the v c district however i have i can't speak for my fellow played a commissioner others i don't feel that we've been given enough information ahead of time concerning design in terms of the definition of the design standards s and i you know i feel that if it came to a vote tonight it would not pass so you know again i can't speak for you guys but you know i am inclined to offer the opportunity to continue to the next available meeting or we can probably take a vote on it now and it will probably not pass but i'm just giving you my opinion of what will probably happen tonight and that is that we have not been afforded enough information ahead of time to make a decent decision many i get many of these things including some things to print out today we're seeing for the very first time you know in terms of what i prefer aesthetically is not necessarily what i'm trying to force on the applicant but i don't feel that this about ok let's just duck a everybody kind of hold it for just a second i don't i just want to be clear i don't want to waste everybody's time here tonight ok so this is where i'm coming from and i want to you know hear what you or we can take a vote now and probably tonight this building this building whatever that is and this building over here which is that police building was across the street from that probably i don't know how long it's been there does nothing for our town but the looks of it the shape of it yes we have two hundred year old trees which i appreciate you want your trees i love trees  we want to make sure your trees are safe but we also want somewhere for my mother who's eighty six and my father who's eighty six to be able to live and i don't have to worry that in a snowstorm i have to drive we had to town to find them get them to a hospital where they could be here in a town with their safe their stockings officers walking to stores there's fast lines to hospitals doctor's appointments and you guys are fighting over a composite board which i work at home depot which is as close as you're going to get to a brick i'm more worried about the seniors of vermont i really am i'm very worried about them very concerned about that they do not have affordable i have been fighting for two years for a place for your parents to live there is absolutely nowhere to put them that they can afford up to code and i think we're fighting a battle that is not worth fighting if we're not going to save our elderly because that's what it comes down to we're going to save our elderly or we're going to worry about it pitch on our group to match the school sorry concern about what this is going to look like however it is a rhythm within that the rest of the elite few do work sessions like colchester does where rather than keep stabbing at it with two thousand dollar architectural renderings that get thrown out the door sit with the applicant and say how can we make this work and it works very well in colchester and it's just something i'm throwing out there but i can tell you if and ironically when i look at this stuff is not the size of the building it's what the zoning gives you that you work with they're not asking for variances they're saying that's what they say i can do so  mr chairman i respect what you said and you came on strong about it maybe even think you probably lead them a little bit but the point i'm trying to make it how do we get past that and say let's do a work session and let's massage those things so you get what value that people want to see in the village center a district that's very important there are a lot of concerns and so we want to make sure that we're thorough we feel i feel that the applicant in this case had adequate want to go back to when i go by but live in vermont is the area of my life ok and i never knew there was a school house back here because again like she made the comment that you drive down here unless you are stopped in traffic you don't see the structure there and i was coming back in motion today because of the road trees there you literally have to almost drive by and in turn this way to look to see the  started you said this fifth plane and everything but then you said it wasn't the right building correct how can it fit to plan is it  at what our responsibilities are in the village center district in terms of design review my opinion is that it does not fit at this time  picayune things i'm a senior citizen i'd like to move in their own that's great so i could walk around the village not have to drive to it all the time i think maybe instead of stage it  design wise or something i mean if you could get give them a quick buck workshop this is just what we like to see and they can do that for you but i think i did elaine this a lot of seniors are looking forward to sidewalk in there that you took out and now we have a strike markings on the parking lot which is going to be a sidewalk now this is really house doesn't it make sense to have continuous sidewalks to that area rather than risking possible accident in the parking lot and the is your any green space outside it all for banks and other hazards in the parking lot the placement of the vans next to the neighbor's line i have to say it's it seems like there needs to be distance between the property line and a residential property will be headlights will be no ways there is going to be a vent from the bottom on the underground parking i mean all those think if they are going to be affordable that's great but i don't recall seeing not in the in the stats but the turning around the think that the fact that you've got all these different views there isn't such a tiny area just seems to me to be here much more scrutiny and i'm going to really hoping that that you guys are not so quick to sign off on this i think there's a lot of impact and we do need senior housing but we need smart senior because sometimes people along affordability with a subsidy from a bank or be a f a or something like that but how many people in this room know a builder that building one bedroom home there's not they don't exist so the alternative is to collectively put them together so that they are affordable and i do what creates the affordability is to collectively use the same law with the density that you granted to so i'm a builder too so i look at that i always have people coming to me saying they can go to put a cottage in my backyard a one bedroom cottage you know whether it's for someone whose spouse has passed away or do you want to live in a small house or run out the four bedroom to somebody so  depend on social security or things like that this is an alternative model solution so there's not many tools out there in the toolbox we can use to build a one bedroom home and make it affordable to all of this is the alternative problem is is one foot from the property line to park street it is illegal to do that unless you actually get your neighbor to say it's ok in this case it's the village so i'm still looking for some i believe that you've done what you can to address the residents concerns the property owners of the site i also believe  basically fits within the code except for the design aspect now my question is is it our job to tell you what we want or is it worked out here that's something  we can we can all agree on that's so you're upset with us but i'm just saying you know from our perspective this is the very first time we've seen any of this stuff so i'm just i'm just making that point  that it was more than the school roof but several feet i mean if there is an impact it would please somebody come on tell me what it is because i don't want to be guessing all this all i'm doing i was guessing what would be everybody's thinking so when we started putting a roof on this building the building groups so we thought let's keep the flat roof on it the impact is going to be last and to us with everything that's going on on this street everything's pretty flat and pretty monolithic or whatever so we thought we were kind of tying in to main street all along here you've got flat roofs on a lot of these buildings out here and you've got this wide supplies were dropped off you know that this is a transitional area i don't understand why this doesn't fit honestly s you you know i think again i keep going back to the fact that i just said you know we don't feel that we had enough information before hand to make a good decision about this  you know we felt as a commission that that the project wasn't complete when we were asked to make a decision and you know going back on some of the conversations that we've  had you know we this is too important it's the village center it's a building that's going to be around for a long long time we want this to happen but i'm not inclined to tough area because of the parking lot if you know i just there has to be a better has to be a way to improve the design a little bit to fit better with the school right there you know with all the other buildings around it and then don't forget their residences around there too there are people that live around that building so you know i mean i understand it's different kind of structure and it's not going to feel one hundred percent fit but it it's got to be something i'm not an architect it's not what i do so i can't be right i can't tell you what i'm looking for until i see it sort of thing right so john is tell you what you want for architecture but neighbors as well we're tonight to present to the planning commission a new building in our street and the site as been in the is deal family for forty years the current structure though it houses three commercial hence the village through development what instill properties is proposing i believe is a perfect fit for that this year is becoming increasingly urban by design it is a walkable downtown and this project will connect new businesses and new tenants to the existing downtown in a way to will contribute to the overall social and economic strength of the village building and screening the parking under the screening plus there's additional streaming of the parking is underneath the bill so what we try to accomplish and maybe that's really the most important thing to try to help wall understand of or have our neighbors what we're trying to do is we're trying to accomplish is to dramatically improve the sets of park street including moving the parking behind the building and we're going to bring new market rate one bedroom studio apartments studio partners to downtown we were in tennessee they're excited about living in the downtown this is just in part because of the easy access to public transportation onsite parking any benefits like indoor bike storage we are trying to continue to add to the divide to find bergen says of the village city district increase they have made a significant commitment to really upgrade and add something that will be a tremendous contribution to the downtown area and i believe that the building is consistent with the expectations that have been set forth in web development co and goes right to the need for new well designed human scale buildings that comfortably fit into our village and you're about to go and talk about their free from present as we talk about the civil and two studios and instils were it was very important that at least a parking space for each unit was available so we have provided the twenty eight plus additional parking spaces for the  about trying to do the best we can to balance the parking requirements and the village center field as far as  put chambers underneath the parking lot which you'll see but they'll collect and infiltrate the runoff and we we maximize as much of the site as we could but we were kind of bouncing elevations because the water table dictates our storm water system so we ended up also collecting some of the school property or treating all say storm water as well to sort of mitigate will be treating in our say the building really excited to share this design lead today i think  we really wanted to you know to make something that that was in keeping with the village center guidelines and criteria we think that those are really aligned with the way that we like to make  buildings and make downtown use but again we read through and we're talking about really on the concept with the with his nails and we're really happy to see that interest are really aligned here and that we we re going to have a good time making this project because it really sort of checked all the boxes on things that we like to do in making a walkable downtown and having a nice mix of uses and making for a chorus street  to we've got of a building that is really really very simple on one hand it's got a base middle top and the materials are particularly adding that urban environment but i think with the small you you know this is this is a village center it's not a giant ribbon center and we feel like this is the right scale in the right combination here other little things that really sort of contribute to on the building so we have multiple areas of activity here now but also they work together as a whole and serve bring the whole thing when you're sitting when you stand back in it all works together  and pretty much agree with with what he what he said there are no heavy anything really to add work or or differ with you on that we're going to walk around the rest of the building  here actually a step back to the five corners you can see here so that the new building here at the corner is recessed down a marker first street edge and carries this line across you know we're we're a little shorter than that building that we're holding that wine i hope that someday another building will fill in this area here and really start to define a nice street edge and you know person my model here on we're always showing all the stuff at the street all the street furnishings and trees and things that are building but i would assume the rest of the master plan fills out the rest of the law as well with the with the nice streetscape  you as you move away from the center you know closer here you know with these existing buildings i think the scale of this is not so bad you know i think the three stories the flat roof  you see a lot of this these days mixed in with more of the older more traditional two and a half story people buildings and i think it's just right now as it is and all the new contrasts  and we have this corner being helped pretty well massing at the back is a different material and again that's part of our attempt to break building up a little  all the details  well i think the discussion about public art is it is a good one i think i'd like to perhaps decoupled from this particular and there's all the area because i'd like a shot at actually getting the building right in that area before we look at a friendly thing but you know we have going but i just i was struck by one thing out of that is that for the last hundreds of years the could comment on that you're thinking of some sort of horizontal band or something along the along here well just but i'm not i'm not seeing one i'm saying i don't know what it's not there and you know something worse rake in a different material at the base like that on this one we wanted to try and do it with the openings and with which with the solid way relationship to make that distinction between the bottom here in the top  on greenery that can't handle the case you know you're you're asking a lot that's a good point considering you're not going to be able to utilize the two percent of the full t percent you know of the budget it may be a good idea just to you know well there are other forms that it could take the landscaping good you know me in the face put it in granite or something in your budget shot on stone instead landowner got it all squared away then you know we'll just comment on what's happening here and not recognise the line but as you head sort of with your view up the hill towards the  nd then it needed lee on the other side those those location that if those can be kind of beefed up that will go a long way towards addressing any issues that either project make sure they were true when when they are being honest about so in this is an issue in lots of places in the villages just fine thank you thank you terence if you want to make up your i was just going to highlight that there is currently actually do what i say they do a lot of these where i'm complaining miserably about the density they will pushing in this zone i really do appreciate that this is with what i don't call a scale with this area i is it seems optimistic that you are going to be doing the same thing that is happening at make it look like it's for we have people in apartments who don't always work during the day in our home at night they have different hours with restaurants that are open that commingling for sharing her sharing of spaces with business and and the tenants does it it seems like there's not enough spaces i'm wondering something i'm really concerned about is the creation the defacto creation of a continuation of the crescent connector that's going to go  the behind the building here and connect with this other future project which we have to acknowledge is like the elephant in the room here but there is going to be a road going to mr handy sr building that will potentially connect a lot of trees are gone there's a there's a lot of the trees that are in the picture are not there anymore i'm very very concerned that it's going to be another way to funnel traffic from this project out the back onto part terrace and it right now park terrace which was extremely dysfunctional before it's now become the defacto loading area because the loading area was waived for  this building and so we've got loading it's too narrow there's no sidewalk and i think it would be erroneous to not assume that when given the opportunity for folks to go behind and use the driveway for mr hand is building that that in fact at some point is not going to connect and just make a really terrible situation on her terrace that much worse and i just i hope you're just aware of  situation that is is going from bad to worse the commercial signs i was wondering you got in the picture of the facade this is big the big windows will there be commercial signs for the talking about the projects specifically and that's what i just mentioned ok i'm wondering where these things are going to go if they're going to be more signs attached to the building or if people are going to have signs in the windows on the loading area in the back is the i know i know that we have very different opinions i think it works great and we get the break like that it's just something it's new and it's just it's nice i don't want to sound like i'm beating a dead horse here the developer of that site should supply the parking thought spots required by the code period and not off site on site is such a disaster on park terrace and i mean that parking lot the game has on his property has relieved a lot but there is day time park people parking there not just one time day time and that tells you that the whole thing is overflowing it was miscalculated the beginning please don't do the same mistake again please it's a it's a trainwreck saint i would like to say i greatly appreciate mr stewart coming to our homes with plans and talking to all the residents i think that's very neighborly greatly appreciate it  i think the building looks great i think it kind of has a nice blend of traditional but with a modern flair i am wondering couple of things and that's green space for the tenants and you know for those that may be smokers or have pets or whatever is there a place for them to be be with this tremendous project we're losing kind of  outdoor space for the ten to deal with this many units so that's why the park and set up with this i do think there is going to be so if you look at the part of the road that goes up to the school there's a lot of green space on the other you know we do want to take into consideration some of the comments tonight in terms of work sessions i know you know a good example of something that we may i want to see if robyn can get together with some other