good afternoon the oversight hearing by the subcommittee and into the affairs will come to order the subcommittee is meeting today to hear testimony on the successes and challenges of the interagency group on insular affairs under the committee rules for g e the chairwoman myself and the ranking member minority member who could not be here today would make opening statements if any members join us and have other statements they will be included in the hearing record and a unanimous as i said this afternoon the subcommittee is meeting to hear from witnesses representing some of our us insular areas as well as officials of the department of interior and the former clinton administration the subject of our attention is in the agency group an insular affairs as many of us here know traveling to d c from islands evolves great preparation both in time and resources and the subcommittee and hope to have participation of the governors of guam the u s virgin islands american samoa and the northern mariana islands by piggybacking on the national governors association summer session which is being held in pennsylvania or was held in pencil bill pennsylvania earlier this week but to the prior commitments and some pressing business for our own governor back at home the majority of governors were not able to attend the n g a session or this hearing but written testimony has been submitted to the subcommittee and of their being here and it will be entered into the record accordingly i will leave it to our witnesses then to provide the subcommittee a more in depth johnson both recognize the existence of a policy gap in the way the federal government interacted with us insular areas chairman the logo and senator johnson who chaired the energy and natural resources committee introduced similar measures to bridge this gap in the hundred and third congress chairman dilute those legislation would have come as stablish a council an insular affairs comprised on the policy of policy level officials from all federal agencies chaired by the president's chief domestic and foreign policy advisers and assisted by staff in the president's executive office the idea was born out of this legislation and the continuing dialogue and compromise between congress the department of interior and the white house the idea was as a regional established under president clinton and reconstituted in two thousand and three by president bush is nearing its tenth anniversary as a working group the department of interior holes at least one annual meeting which coincides with the governor's traveling to d c in february as it has seasoned the idea has proven to be a regular activity of the department of interior with occasional success the subcommittee looks forward to the testimony being offered this afternoon and hopes that the interaction we have with our witnesses will s and we'll have you speak in this order resident representative of the commonwealth of the northern mariana islands the honorable people to nouriel mr douglas nominates acting deputy assistant secretary for insular affairs at the u s department of interior and mr jeffrey fower former co chair of the white house interagency group on insular affairs during the clinton administration and i now recognize mr peet to nouriel from the northern mariana islands to testify for five minutes and i would ask you to summarize your testimony and with this i'll statements the full statement will be submitted into the record you may be people of the commonwealth in the united states congress we certainly appreciate this very very important gesture and consideration on the part of congress to finally provide representation to the people  we look forward to working with this committee in improving our political relationship with the united states and we feel very confident that with the kind of cooperation and consideration provided by this committee we will definitely have a much better relationship a new beginning in our overall role as part of the american political family forgiven for these words forgotten stepchild into the mainstream where we would finally have powerful advocates on our site since its inception two eyes i have been hopeful that i could help this you know my address it critical infrastructure needs included in the if why two thousand and five appropriations act was a mandate by congress calling for the secretary of interior to develop a comprehensive coordinated  implementation program for the c n n my water system plans developed by the army corps of engineers the appropriations act conference report noted that the magnitude of the funding needs to improve the c n n my water system the report required the secretary of the interior to provide the house and senate committees on appropriations we find the implementation plan that fully utilized uncoordinated those are toward this to ensure that the goals of the plans are ach changes necessary to implement the program on a specific timetable for full completion this status was assigned to the idea which acted very quickly even though there is funding sources will identify nor funding for c n n my water system improvements were included in the following years submission by the president or included in the appropriation while water volume production has increased  appropriations made by congress and if why two thousand and four and two thousand and five budgets i can tell you of that not a drop of water from the site and water system is fordable at this point in time we cannot drink our water from the from the households provided by our government siphons water system is unhealthy causing residents to purchase expensive bottle water for drinking and cooking it also greatly increases the cost of doing business by investors i am sure everyone here remembers that their story a backbone initiative developed under the auspices of congress remember dalio generously introduced the bill to implement the plan but unfortunately the bill was derailed by a lack of o m b support in concept i believe that i use crucial to increasing the communication about  within the federal government i would like to see our next president again form the idea i would recommend that he'd include a greater involvement by the office of management and budget and finally as i recommended in the past meeting i would like very much that this group conduct its first meeting next year in one of the territories of the united states thank you very much you know i like madam chair and members of the subcommittee on insular affairs thank you for the opportunity to discuss the activities of the interagency group on insular areas or which deals with the issues of concern in the united states territories guam american samoa the u s virgin islands and the commonwealth of the northern mariana islands i would like to make a brief opening statement and submit my testimony for the record as you know secretary  personal interest in the needs and concerns of our insular areas and affiliated island communities since his trip to the pacific last summer a little over two weeks two months ago upon the departure of david cohen the secretary named to me acting deputy assistant secretary for insular affairs one reason was to have the issues of the islands manage directly out of the secretary's office since i also continue to serve as his deputy chief of staff over the last few months i have had the opportunity to travel to the virgin islands and see in a minute to see issues on the ground and visit with island leaders directly as you know the u s insular areas are uniquely beautiful and yet uniquely challenged they have limited land resources small populations and generally limited pools of experts especially in professional technical and scientific fields and because these areas are not states a number of legal issues often set a territory or all territories apart from the fifty states or from one another this has resulted in different applications of issues like minimum wage requirements customs and border regulations census enumerations trade policy and medicaid treatment to name a few on the islands the previous administration created the g i a to assist the territories with these unique challenges president bush on may two thousand and three signed executive order thirteen two ninety nine to establish the a and provide for double deliberation within the executive branch on issues of consequence to the territor the secretary of the interior serves as the chairman of the i g i a consists of the heads of the executive departments and heads of such agencies as the secretary of the interior may designate the i g i a is a  collaborative body with the task of obtaining advice and information on policy issues that the insular areas face individually and as a group since two thousand and three the i the last meeting of the g i a was in february of two thousand and eight in the secretary's conference room at the interior department secretary kempthorne chaired most of the meeting the governors of guam american samoa and   m i were present along with delegates to congress from guam and the us vi as well as the distinguished c m i washington representative executive branch agencies represented in the room in addition to interior w defense justice state homeland security labor transportation education agriculture energy h h s o m b treasury the office of the u s trade  a postal service hud small business c e q and social security administration all present expressed appreciation for the productive nature of the meeting the i g i a is intended to act as a deliberative body and does not make executive legislative or judicial decisions it does not take positions on proposed legislation or policy on behalf of the administration and cannot compel any member agency to take any action or adopt any particular position in stead the goal of the i g a is to provide a forum and mechanism for the elected leaders of the insular areas to frame issues for and participate in discussions leading to the formulation of federal policy and work with federal agencies that in turn work with them thus island leaders have a channel of communication for voicing their concerns we have always looked for ways to improve the testimony to have been invited to testify to the subcommittee which i was privileged to serve during most of my years on the committee staff and i'm delighted to do regarding the inner agency group on insular areas which i helped establish and co chaired during the clinton administration let me begin by complimenting you madam chair for this hearing the air each and see group should be a needed means for addressing problems concerning american samoa guam the northern mariana islands and our home of the u s virgin islands in establishing that president clinton noted that the situations of unincorporated territories are so sometimes different from those of the states this creates issues the issues than the range of agencies and federal issues facials have a special responsibility to consider territories issues because the areas lack the representation that a state has in the federal process regrettably the inner agency group has not fulfilled its potential during the bush administration despite the best efforts of this leadership the reason is a fundamental change that the administration made in the inner agency group originally co chaired by designees of the secretary of the in tears sure and the director of the white house office of intergovernmental affairs has reconstituted his bid is presided over by in a tear department official alone white house code leadership was an essential element of the interagency group and  reason for its establishment although interior has responsibility for relations with the areas its responsibility does not extend to programs within the jurisdiction of other agencies most issues are within the jurisdiction of other agencies agencies rarely differ on matters within their jurisdiction to other agencies many decisions are made above the agency level by the office of management and budget secretaries of the interior can sometimes overcome opposition at other agencies but cannot do so on a regular basis the issues are generally relatively small in the national and even interior contexts and as difficult to get high level attention to such matters and white house influence is often needed to move agencies and one be the inner agency group was established after the interior department failed to convince the department of justice to support application of immigration laws to the northern mariana islands and from the white house at interiors request i got the clinton administration to advocate application it also came after the president's interagency group puerto rico had a change had obtained changes in policy including some benefiting the other insular areas interior deputy assistant secretary allan stayman then convince the department of the interior to support a compromise in the earlier proposed interagency group on insular areas that involved joint interior and white house leadership interior had previously opposed white house leadership in fact the  interagency the group was established years later than it would have been otherwise due to this opposition and opposition in the senate comfortable with interior and concerned unnecessarily about jurisdiction over an interagency group with white house code leadership as the clinton administration took office members of the subcommittee including the chairs predecessor rhonda lugo delegate phelim of ingo and chairman miller had promoted executive office of the present leadership of an interagency group but were buffed by interior chairman deluca obtained a white house staff commitment to the idea of white house code leadership but the agreement was not implemented because of the senate objection the change in the inner agency group's leadership in two thousand and three came after the bush administration did not fill the position that i had held at the white house dealing with all insular areas matters greater eco's commonwealth party governor and resident commissioner short sightedly did not want it filled during my replacement would be someone whom they believed favored the statehood party in addition to my position at the inner agency group on puerto rico was not continued the inner agency group on the less populous territories continue to exist only on paper and the work it had begun languished the disengagement from puerto rican issues puerto rican officials sought has cost puerto rican a lot another consequence was the virtual elimination of white house assistance on issues of the other territories executive office of the president attention could be as cheered by statute you can also try to obtain white house involvement by asking the next president to restore white house code leadership of the inner agency group and staffing i noted this regard that chairman bingaman and senators akaka murkowski recently suggested that this administration consider white house staffing and co chairing you may run into resistance but i recommend that you press for white house involvement territories issues more successfully addressed this may be the most beneficial measure that you can initiate regarding the territories medicare requests that you include in the record a progress report of the inner agency group on insular areas issued within months of its establishment and a list of accomplishments of the inner agency group on puerto rico these documents will help members evaluate the interagency group on insular areas without white house code leadership i will be happy to answer questions friend the representative from seeing the my and of course my long time friend and certainly i consider one of the few experts that we have left when it comes to mr jeff s i wait for the questioning aspects of this matter but i do want to thank you for calling this hearing i think it's important and we need to pursue to pursue this issue a little more and hopefully statement about comparing the outcome of the interagency working group under the clinton administration not just because under the clinton administration but because it chaired by the white house and apartment as opposed to being called a chair just by interior at this point and i miss it to know you mentioned one issue at least the water issue are the issues that you felt were adequately addressed that you had taken to the interagency working group other than the water which apparently was not you know there is there was  other issue because my i marry issue madame chairperson that's always been improving the the water system something that is so basic to us because being a drama just by profession and having worked time knowing that you know we are subject to the united states public health drinking water standards we were always in violation of the standards in terms of drinking water because because of that we assistant secretary one of the biggest criticisms of the car and i did a process of this currently constructed is that it lacks its ability to effectively achieve results on behalf of the ancillary do you believe that the current idea which was set up as a deliberate body has enough clout to get federal agencies to respond to the issues and concerns but by the island no i do not the mention of my statement the reason for the creation  of the first place was to have the involvement of the white house to sure that the territories were considered as policy was developed at the highest level and be the other way around the secretary of interior can personally sometimes go to the director of o m b or sometimes personally go to the president and raise an issue secretary cannot do that every day he would not have credibility if he did he's got his own department to mind so it was recognized in the original creation of the that you needed higher level of clarity the purposes mr dominick has described of the i g i as a little different from that of the original i g i a and i think it is great that the administration has continued the i g i to the extent it has of an deliberative body and that there is communication between agencies and some issues are resolved but there are issues that cannot be resolved by communication alone among the agencies you need policy guidance from the white house you need budgetary guidance from the white house you need to be able to say to the kids to the secretary of the treasury that the president wants to have x done as opposed to the sec the secretary of another department wants to have something done so i do not think it has been as effective as it should have been and was intended to be and its current purpose is not all that the original purpose was intended to be as i have communicated with you mention the governors in your opening statement with governors and others who represent the insular as i think there is a level of dissatisfaction with the i g i a not that it has not accomplished some things but it should be accomplishing more it was meant to fill a gap in the policy process that is only partially filled and that relates to the areas in particular not having voting representation in the federal process and the full voting representation in the congress representation in the senate or electoral votes that get policy attention at the highest levels this is no criticism in particular of the current leadership of a and the army corps and the working group tried to establish essentially what was the situation there made a request in the president's two thousand and six budget of a million dollars to do that infrastructure assessment and continue to meet to try to solve that meanwhile interior itself in two thousand and five provided six point four million in two thousand and six five point six million two thousand and seven one point four million two thousand and eight two point three million specifically on the issue of possible water and site pan so i think there are accomplishments to be pointed to that doesn't mean the problem still doesn't exist and that it is a problem that we're very concerned about along with the power situation and in the c n n my it's you know in some ways they go hand in hand as you well know there are other issues that we can point to as  having some sort of success whether that's the visa waiver waiver situation or the work that's being done on the guam military buildup which of course again as another working group establish to try to coordinate between what the federal agencies are doing we've had a substantial amount of work through the i g i a related to economic development that has resulted in trade missions to the u s vi and other places to the business opportunity conferences we've held as well as other activities so there are there are some successes the point there on kava taj which has been an issue of course for many of the said often maybe there are small things in the big scheme of the federal government but it does provide an opportunity for the leaders to give us their priority list and then for us to get that in front of all the federal agencies thank you t that i think it was probably both obviously the water situation on c n n my is something interior knew about but the i g i and gave us an opportunity to have the leaders from c n n my explain that to the other federal agencies who can be helpful on the water situation the corps and other people so that the advantage there without that forum is i mean is it tough to have them return your calls or is it just easier coordination it's probably i think they'll return our calls but it probably is just more of a communication opportunity i think as others have said often too often people in the federal government don't think about the territories and of course we think about them all the time and continue to try that drumbeat of telling other people about them and so that we find that's the most valuable part of the i g i as getting these people in the same room with the leaders so that they can see these and hear about these problems firsthand mr farrell you are quite critical in your testimony and so i didn't hear that but i did read it about the i j a and what has not happened in particular do you think it's a structural problem or is it just been personalities that  haven't seen a need or was it simply when it went from one administration to another didn't have the importance in the new administration would you scrap the the organization and started a new or or just revive it i think just like it's a structural problem is not the personalities involved i think they've done the best they could within the structure that they have to operate i would not scrap the organization at all but i would go back to the original organization to have white house co chair women chip of the inner agency group you know when puerto rico obtained local self government the responsibility for issues regarding puerto rico was shifted to the white house when the other territories of achieved qui self government that to dod occur and the white house is in a position to relate to other agencies the way that an agency like interior cannot write and your testimony basically says interior plays to it's just still all meaningful activity is centered at the interior and not in the other agencies i think other agencies are meaningfully engaged by interior but what they don't get is when there are disputes between the agencies help you know to the federal initiatives to get the job done i could go on and on and talk about how bad the power situation is but i know this is not the forum to address it to madame chairperson but i do feel that that's one area where  a should be handled with respect to this critical issue i'm not talking about all issues not just basically power generation problem because it's so issue that encompasses every single aspect of our life back home thank you thank you and if i could just itself and the problems of financial management that the territories have and several in several years over several years i have some of my statements going back to two thousand and two my suggestion was that each of the agencies that send funding to the territory set aside a part of that funding to set up financial management system and over and over and over again we're in the virgin islands or on our way to setting up our own at this point but to me infrastructure is a major issue and i think that that's something that we really need the white house clout to to be brought to bear on it but a simple issue such as setting aside funding for financial the chair does not object but i see no reason why mr federal cannot come and share with us the benefit of his historical of the activities of the things that he's done for the actual areas more than anybody that i can perceive as or any objection to that well i don't know that he works for the senate but let me let me get a clarification from from the staff on and i do want to thank my good friend mr farah for giving us a real historical summary of exactly how this whole concept of an i g i came about it wasn't because of any interest in it was it was an interest towards puerto rico  and the fact that we've got four million four point four million u s citizens living in puerto rico the fact that puerto rico being a highly charged political issue because it has this potential of being a state if it ever becomes a state seven members of congress and you two new senators that's why puerto rico has always been part of the white house collaboration in making sure whatever puerto rico's future will be or has been our hopes to be this is a never ending issue that in any way or form as far as washington d c is concerned not because the senators or members of congress don't like initial areas simply because when you put it in terms of priorities in two areas it will never a high priority in the minds of the members of the congress as well as the administration so what has happened over the last thirty or forty years perhaps congress decided to authorize providing these with congressional delegates and now we have the completion of this cycle now that finally congress has said we want a congressional delegate from the commonwealth another mary and i did so there it is the picture is now completed we have five congressional delegates that will begin i don't know if this is going to run for that office come this november and i know that is very unpalatable about this hearing of what we're discussing is nonpartisan  whether republican or democrat but the point i'm making here is that that was the very reason why we have congressional delegates elected and if you really want to be realistic about the i g r here with all due respect dennis you were not there the hearings that i've attended you cited about fifteen different agencies as far as any real policy makers coming up from those departments come on let's be serious they were not policy makers and if they were good for taking notes or for whatever  wired into terms as it may may relate to that territories need totally irrelevant to another territory so i would like to suggest that maybe we can do this a little better and the fact that these congressional delegate supposed to be the mouthpiece the liaison of whatever you want to do in connection with any federal issue in washington now that cinema is in the picture i really don't see the relevance to why we should have to continue the  and the marshall administration of those funds and american some on but as to any other real policy in terms of any serious funding coming out of the interior appropriations going to this in areas i don't see it with the exception of the federated states that we're having to deal with now of right now and even in the years to come so what i'm saying madam chair is that i'm seriously question whether there's any real relevance in having the presence of an i g a the way it's currently structured it just to be totally overly cumbersome and i think that's the very essence of what we're trying to eliminate us federal layers of bureaucracy so that we could get right cut right to the chase and get results of the issues and the questions that these territories have in relation to the federal government it seems that we have a problem here even dealing with the interior department american so very unique and very different from all the other into areas we are an unincorporated an unorganized territory of the united states and ensuring interesting enough even puerto rico is an unincorporated territory of the united states so there's another gray area that we still have not really made a decision in terms of what is the future of american someone's relationship to the united states  we found from the council if we can invite mr still waited sorry i really wanted you to come and participate because i really think it's good and madam chair i want to say that this is great that we finally have this chance to told as hearing mystified that mention the whole essence of the idea is to give more clout if if it was mr farrow mr dennis that made this statement more clout to what and the fact that there are how we can better produce results of the issues affecting the ancillary i feel that now we say pan now coming into the picture maybe we should have an interagency of the good aggression of delegates regardless of party a then work together the governors directly of each area and leave in an agency would puerto rico or the white house and of course we would like to have a white house linkage in terms of what we're doing because they have a domestic assistant to the president they also have assistant to the president and other major areas and mr farrell is very familiar with so and this is what i'm suggesting here madam chair is that the way it's now structured i just don't needs i'm wasting my time being there so i think we if we want to talk about an interagency organization i see that now that site then is into the fall we've now complete the role of what congressional delegates should be doing on behalf of their territories and making sure the information or the needs are brought to the attention of the congress and that relevant federal agency so my time is up i'll wait for the second round  while we wait for the legal counsel to get back to us go ahead with my questions i think is this and secretary damage i've asked this question before too and i really have never gotten a good answer that's two part question who within the federal government has a responsibility for setting the federal policy for the territories and more fundamentally can you tell us what th federal policy is that's a very broad question madam chairman and my i believe the correct answer for that is every  federal department has its own piece of that pie i think shorthand not a non lawyers answer to that is that the secretary of the interior retains the administrative authority over the territories in the areas essentially that no other department is involved in so our piece of the pie as we have one piece and to the extent that apartment education is involved in each of the tarea territor they do their own thing hud labor etc and and so there's not a single policy point for the territory's per se as you construct the question i don't know if anyone else of the table wants to take a stab at answering are making a suggestion or if you want to make a suggestion is how the policy is going to be set because that is i have not sensed in my twelve years here overarching policy with a guide from the federal government from the white house the administration and i say to the territory so i don't know if anyone else wants to take a stab at answering that one exists before that i miss better i think that there has never been a clear consistent policy in a simplified fashion was but i don't recall that since that time there's been a comprehensive policy proposal either administratively or legislatively proposed and poli missions one of the reasons for the inner agency group was to coordinate those policies as they affect the insular areas since the air in slur is don't have the same representation that states have in the federal process to get their concerns heard and their issues attended to to the extent that there is a policy direction of it in astray ssion it isn't set by the president and his office and for that reason i think it's it's ineffective to have one agent she tried to assume that role mr dominant should think correctly described the responsibility of interior with respect to policy making in the territories and the other agencies  there has been a change in the status of the territories since since that arrangement was an act into law and it is law with respect to all of the territories in the revised organic act i believe the virgin islands and other statutes and that change is that now the insular is all are have local self government and set their own priorities and that chart their own direction prior to that time governors were appointed by the president reported to the secretary of the interior the territories had limited self government so it made sense for the secretary to be that preeminent authority the interior department was local government even in places like some awesome on now has substantial autonomy as much as the secretary may provide funding for the territory congress provided that the constitution  american samoa written under the authority of the secretary of interior can only be amended by act of cut with the approval of act of congress so there's a great deal of autonomy that the territories now have and they can relate to other agencies that in the past few decades they've been included in most federal programs at one point most of the budgetary support programatic support even on education matters or healthcare matters came through the department of interior now comes through h h s and education and so forth and that's why you need some leadership and guidance on policy and budgets within the executive office of the president and not in any particular agency interiors tried but can only do so much i would point out that it was interior mr stayman because with the senate committee staff now who came to the in the clinton administration and said let's revive this idea of policies tax policies and others that the territories we're interested in most issues are not within the jurisdiction of interior let me ask this like if he might have another line of questioning that represented in congress i know it's not for representation of the senate and what not but mr terry i'd be interested in your response to that do you think that will suffice or is it still useful productive have this body  minimum wage and other aspects that were spelled out so i feel that applying common policy to to encompass all jurisdictions maybe the would not be addressed by having a common territorial policy through reality as mr pharaoh has said earlier about the fact that now there's a provision as an amendment in the law that says that local constitution which by the way was never approved by the congress is american someone's constitution it was approved only by the secretary of the interior because of the plenary authority that the congress has under the federal constitution in one thousand twenty nine  congress to be said all judicial military to administrative authority of the islands territories just given to the president and then the president by executive order now to this to this day is given to the sector of the interior my point here executive authority of the sect of the interior and not because the congress will do it this is very weird but that's the reality that we're faced with now a classic example where the stimulus package as an example  questions raised because we don't pay federal income taxes why should these territories get the same benefit but somehow friends like charlie rangle and all the others in the house supported this effort so i i would say that i think as been stated earlier i hate to say this mr dent is a sometimes our friends in the interior department make selective decisions when they feel like getting involved with an issue they will be involved otherwise they just let the territory swim on their own to face if they can't make it that's their tough luck and i don't know if that's really what we want to achieve here as far as getting a better streamlined  procedure and how to deal with the ancillary is as i'm sure that this is not a personal attack on any of our friends who are working their darndest in the interior department to try to provide assistance to to the var fact that you have potable water issue of this is four years ago and now we have two hundred years of rain in american samoa which we could give you some of our water which is never our problem and our issue but sometimes i think this is something that i i feel  when it comes to i g i a continuance of putting some fifteen or twenty representatives of the different federal agencies all meeting there's one room with an interior department talking about some issues for only one hour then after that everybody said some things we've done but i think by and large i don't think our batting average has been very high in my humble opinion of all the things that we went through discussing about twenty different issues and only accomplishing maybe about one or two and that's not the reason why i didn't come in the february meeting by the way i think i was sick on that day ok but i really do want to say that i think it's an important issue madam chair in the coming year when we have a new administration policy assuming i get reelected i don't know if i'm still going to be around but this issue i think we need to address more seriously and hopefully w make a better structure out of because i really in my personal freedom and i'm sure it's not working and by the way as far as said earlier there was a policy that was even a policy of getting rid of the entire agency insular affairs all together and so we got some some structural challenges ahead of us and hopefully that we will continue this dialogue and see what we need to make some some good phase one items that were listed in the progress two thousand i j a progress report that you asked to be made a part of the hearing record was a question of applying us to to stickle programs in insular areas and they may be aware that we recently held a joint hearing with the subcommittee and census to raise the issue of the lack of a daily available data in the territories something that again i've raised i think every idea a that i have attended and the impact that in this case the office of insular affairs would identify to school programs such as the american community survey that did not apply in the insular and clarify the cost and other issues surrounding the application of the  areas by other issues surrounding the cation there we're talking about different forms of addresses that are used in some areas versus others that are different from the standard in the states and the complexity that that added to the process of fact gathering the different information that the local governments themselves had available so that was agreed to what i know that as well we agreed with the census bureau and an agreement that they would include information regarding puerto rico at least  in the two thousand census equally with the states i don't know what the implementation was after that after after two thousand and three when the administration changed the  inner agency group on insular is was an active for the next few years until two thousand and three so i don't think there was follow up that level there wasn't as i said my position of the white house wasn't filled so the so no one from the white house was following up with the census bureau i can't say for sure that nothing was done for the next few years but but i'm not aware of it being done and maybe the interior department is missing the puerto rico issue is about puerto rico was done we're back to square one but i think we're making some progress now on the american community survey based on the responses we got some census during our hearing one of the issues that we dealt with  was that i was the economic sense of soon the territories and the department of commerce had sent up legislation to discontinue the economic census and the territories because of the same types of issues budget was going to cost five million dollars and the difference forms of address and we successfully reversed an ad had the administration actually recall that legislation that had been submitted by the department of commerce and i think that that's an example of what i'm talking about with the need for some white house direction because when b was sympathetic to the position of commerce that this was a way to save five million dollars on a per capita basis it was going to cost a lot more to do the economic census in the territories than in the states that the white house to to push would be to go along with the five million dollars ok let me ask you a question another issue that came up in the two thousand i j progress support one of the phase two issues by island was a question of the virgin islands is led to receive a cover over of taxes on gasoline the report indicated that a working group meeting was held with the department of treasury  in february of two thousand resulting in an action plan statement that said the supreme court supreme court ruled against the v a gasoline tax claim and there has been there was no interest in the part and this is a quote there is no interest on the part of the federal government to visit this issue why let statement that the coal is fairly straight forward because this issue comes up over and over again at home can you elaborate a bit on that and they'll assess that led to the conclusion of the lack of interest in me visiting this issue i recall this more specifically because it is an issue that has come from my home territory and that has come up over the years so often and there are three elements of the analysis and there there are simple and straightforward one you stated in the question and i guess was stated in the report which was the supreme court of the united states had ruled that the virgin islands did not have a legal claim to the money  so as a matter of law that argument the territory was not valid number two the congress and the president had agreed in a couple of administrations had agreed upon legislation that limited the cover over provision of the revised organic act of the original islands which provided that federal taxes on products of the virgin islands transported to the united states and consumed in the united states would be covered into or transferred granted into the treasury of the virgin islands the congress and the president had agreed that those that would be amended to only provide to the product of rum so congress and the president  all reached this decision and the supreme court had reached this decision before there was an effort to negotiate a settlement of the virgin islands claim before the supreme court ruled and the administration at the time i was part of that decision offered to give the virgin islands thirty million dollars a year this was i believe the late sevent the virgin islands turned down that offer but subsequent to that as i said the supreme court ruled congress and the president changed the law so there is no legal basis and there was a policy decision when the provision in the third element when the provision of the all also applied to the philippines before that and the product used in puerto rico was roman the into product that was intended in the virgin islands was congress did not intend and in acting the cover over to begin with that it would apply to gasoline so because there was not rational intent in the beginning and the law was not intended to cover gasoline because the supreme court ruled that the virgin islands didn't have a valid legal claim because the congress and the president had recently determined that not only not gasoline but not only else other alcoholic beverages would not provide taxes that would be covered over there was that was the decision was made as it was one last question and then turn it over to mr farnum a bank if he has any further questions there's been discussion this afternoon about the importance of the white house involvement in the area issues being essential to showing success i'm not sure if everybody agreed to that but we've been it's less before a dozen and i tend to agree so i would ask the panel really if the believe if we were to propose putting the executive office of the president attention to territorial issues in statute would we and how to do you think the same opposition the time was meant a little bit when he proposed something the next administration you may incur encounter in the chair department that wants to keep as much responsibility in jurisdiction as can you may encounter a white house that has and or executive office of the president in the broader context that is overwhelmed with the new responsibilities it's facing and every white house wants to shift responsibility for agencies to departments so it can concentrate on what it considers priorities you  encounter likely a white house and o m b that will want to limit the staffing and budget within the executive office of the president every president has come in wanting to do that and so they will not be the actions to assume responsibilities that will require additional staffing but i still think you need to go ahead in the interests of the insular areas and the answers of the federal government dealing with the insular areas and press for i would note that the opposition that chairman delude go and counter to this concept was not so much putting this in statute although that will be an issue presidents don't like to be restricted more than they have to be and they'll try to resist that but it really was the view of the secretary of the interior in one thousand nine hundred three who is an extraordinarily capable secretary who thought that he could address and handle these issues himself and he was very successful secretary in a lot of ways and very capable but with the advice of mr stayman as i mentioned and with experience over the years by nine hundred ninety nine the secretary realized that he was not in a position to successfully lead the administration on every issue involving the territories that needed leadership and policy guidance  so i think you may have a new secretary who thinks i can do this but i think experience will tell you and you should impress not on the new administration that the change needs to be made  a group or a smaller group of the main thing is that least from my own experiences and we need to continue to have a dialogue we need to have an open channel of communication with the agencies that we feel can said before so i really do not have any major recommendations on how to structure my main concern is that we need to have the federal folks communicating with the local government as you know we authorize an economic study report through the late bureau of labor statistics that came out and both chairman miller and chairman kennedy were very critical because the report was not comprehensive enough to really tell us whether or not to justify raising the minimum wage to the fifty cent criteria that the law provided and what i want to ask you a dominant i'd like to make is as an official request because going through the legislative process is almost near impossible three months before we were out of session and september and i would very much appreciated schechter we kept to take the initiative using technical assistance funds  and come out with funding some kind of a comprehensive economic report study now as soon as possible so that we don't have to wait for another period of how many months before we come up in addressing this issue norio the problem that we're faced with and rightly so is the fact that even in our own situation the report was not comprehensive enough even though they made general statements to the effect that the economies of these territories would be affected if the fifty cent increase was to be made well lo and behold when chairwoman christian and i went to american samoa we conducted the oversight hearing and one of the first questions i asked the managers of our local to canneries were there any layoffs when we instituted a fifty cent increase he said no so if that does not encourage chairman miller and chairman kennedy says we really don't have an economic problem it's a sense of honesty and being a little more forthright in telling us exactly how this is the thing that really bothered me so much we really don't know what the economic status is of both c n n i as well as an american someone that's why we requested  the department of labor to conduct this study especially as it relates to the minimum wage issue which was never properly address so i making this is a formal request secretary dominance if you could take this issue quickly to sec for the next congress to come out next year it'll be too late and may of next year the next increase comes up and i really really well and i think this is what the congress is trying to get unfortunately your department of labor was not very  can from this and but the fact remains the fact of the matter is we still have not received a comprehensive economic report for both c m i an american and this time i would like to ask department can do this for us and you can do it administratively we can consult and find out exactly how we can go about doing it but i really think that this is something the interior department should should help us with as soon as possible and the second issue that i want to raise and i'm sorry pete i didn't mean to delay your staying here but i wanted you to hear that this is coming from from the horse's mouth and making this as an official request to our good friend your secretary dominations see if we can get some results on of course the census bureau has not been very cooperative are there in going about in conducting possible surveys and stories of whatever is necessary to give us better data and information and by the way this has been the complaint of all the a census bureau simply does not have the appropriate data information to give us a better understanding of what not only of our economic status is but just simply as it will relate to whether or not we become beneficiaries to some of these for several of federal grants programs simply because we don't have the proper information but i think my first request secretary will i really would appreciate if you could take that immediately respond to those in writing and the hearing record will be held open for ten days i also in thanking the witnesses i want to say that the personal experiences and the expertise from the standpoint of how the i g a operates internally and the history of the idea has helped us to better understand the footwear flaws may exist in the past year and a half the subcommittee is held hearings on a number of issues important to our fellow americans residing was the northern mariana islands puerto rico and my home the us or our home jeff the u s virgin islands some of our work resulted in the house considering and passing legislation addressing outstanding work claims the construction of schools the repeal of taxes final financial accountability and the extent of u s immigration laws are hearings of also build upon previous congressional efforts to resolve political status for our largest territory of puerto rico and to understand the challenges faced by u s territories in financial management accountability and implementing alternative energy diversifying economies and raising the standards of living i'm certain that we can all agree that because of the territor unique status within the american family there's a special obligation resting with the federal government to resolve issues and make policy recommendations reflect in the islands the sting circumstances this responsibility holds true for both unresolved problems of the past and challenges of the future the differences between the i ga approaches of the clinton and the bush administrations a clear and speak to the insular legacies one president has left behind and the other will soon  follow the subcommittee is interested in building upon the lessons learned from two very different approaches to leadership and what is clear to me is that the federal government should at the very least provide continuity for a group which can have a very serious impact for americans residing in the u s territories in the near future we hope to collaborate with you and other island leaders in putting together something which would offer the kind of continuity and reliability needed to move our islands forward and again i thank the witnesses and the members of the subcommittee and the staff for their work on this hearing and if there is no further business this the hearing of the