point and we decided we really needed to up our game in her mind and come to where the people are because there just aren't that many in the queue it's our production facility will still be in newport and we have a little retail shop and tast but we wanted to come to it in county and when you ski we be friends you know misery is one of our best customers and we'll bar and just feels like the right kind of place for  have him he's going to be the g m and the day to day person running the operation he's certainly putting it all together for us right now hossam and he sneak preview for what people finally walk in the door all kinds of stuff we're going to be doing we saw him and expand we'll have classes once step excuse me is public comment this is an opportunity for members of the public to just counsel about anything that's not on tonight's agenda as a reminder you can see tonight's agenda in the back we'll get to each of those issues you have opportunity to comment on those but this is our opportunity to bring anything underway working on the master plan so encourage people who are interested to come out to those meetings those are the second for thursday of the month here in the street at six thirty and then finally saturday is our urban campout this is a new event for the city this year cast taking place in caspian park feelings are encouraged to come with a ten to twenty dollars per tent with their families with morrison games and campfires and stories and for an overnight camp   three family members came here as refugees from vietnam twenty six years ago none of the family cries were thirty five people built this really beautiful amazing life in business in the community  what specific roles within rose pools that we have they're working towards so i'm sure it will all hear more from them as they're doing that work and i believe that in the future they'll likely come before us to talk about some of the work they're doing with that  what i took away from that conversation was you know how important this measure is is making a statement to our youth in our young people in our community about this issue so i really feel that you know as a coun reflected by everybody loves the neighborhood and it's been a big deal and appreciate all staff support to make it a successful vet in the past in this series sounds like two it's a great way to get around the community really positive way so thank you all here  dream sort of sunday or their float so like that so it's a great time for people come together some yeah have food talk neighbors listen to music it sounds like doing the fire department open up the this is we support it but you know it's really carry the water so thank you really appreciate it most just nice heaven and anybody that's not in the flats is anybody's welcome so it's food and fun and kids and hoops and everything just one thing to know is this is the first year that we're giving out small grants for a block party that was one of the recommendations for the economic development strategic plan and so they will be receiving a grant look at our onsite needs so what they found was our internet connection to the public works cross is not fast enough to support this technology so we're requesting the use of reserves twenty one thousand to twenty one thousand dollars to bring that connectivity to the garage the benefit this gets us one is faster connection for the professionals who work at the garage and their ability to do their work and also connects them with our staff here at city hall and gets us onto the same questions concerns from the public stretching out there you could make sure that cast a ballot but then also always has been so you can down into the clerk's office here at any point get a ballot from carol and vote and if you have an outstanding ballot make sure to return i probably getting pretty down to the wire plus the ballots had a mailed out to you and then to mail it back and get back in time as long as you got the ballot back to carol by seven pm on election day you swimming lessons and for many many years we hosted a swim team many folks in this room were involved in this swim team and many with the residents learned to swim through there through this resource in our community it was close in two thousand and sixteen due to the years of deferred maintenance we had an engineering firm come in and take a look at the current facility and it was determined that it was unsafe and so unfortunately we had to close the pool and subsequently formed a committee of staff and community members to explore options for replacing the facility that be met for many many months and designed a process for gathering community input on want to replace it i'm cool could look like what features community members play or it's not just where it could be located  and the size of the replacement facility and over three hundred ten years of the residents participated in the process there was a big event up near landry park there were opportunities for people to vote stickers down here at city hall felt were essential going into what the vision of what it could look like would be the first was of course the competition pool just because of that strong history here when you ski of having a swim team having an opportunity for  here to participate in a sports program so the competition pool was something that was really highly valued something that won't talk a little bit more about down the road as well when it comes to discussing revenue for the pool but with no idea including some sort of a sly feature essentially an attraction that's fun and that can draw a community member or draw the line when you ski patronage to the pool of people coming in from outside of a new scheme which you know for collecting or use fees for the day or memberships from outside are going to see that certainly helps in the revenue to offset the tax impact as well as in addition to the competition pool having a kiddie pool and a zero entry combination pool and we discussed the features will go into it a little bit more but essentially that zero entry pool is just something that goes from ground level and slopes down into the pool so that there isn't the need for people to use them for the stairs or railings or anything along those lines and that was highly valued by the community just because of inclusive ready for people who might have mobility issues still be able to access that pool and utilise that resource as well as new swimmers can then end up in the shallow end of the pool with a little bit more safety there so after that community process where the community kind of put together what they most valued having in a pool that same engineering firm weston and sampson was selected to kind of  work and it there was in that process they came back to the council came back to the pool committee on came back to the community services commission multiple times with updates  presentations on kind of what preliminary engineering looks like including these features and then on march nineteenth we actually received a final report of what the out looks like so once we received the report we continued to have these discussions continued to hear from community members and ultimately decided on june eighteenth to hold off on both has been the hardest primary election and then you can see the slide all the way to the right of the things so now you kind of have a roadmap of what all those features were like the vote that we took to move this to bonn there was a lot of discussion around exactly what we'd be putting on the ballot for people to vote on and because of all the work that and  legwork that had gone into that community input process that council did decide to move forward and bond for that full amount rather than a scaled back version of the pool and this is what that actually looks like when we talk dollars so so it's it authorizes us to move forward in doing so but doesn't obligate us specifically to it and also those a number you know if there are ways that's the whole kind of cost of the project vote authorizes us to bond up to that amount if which will talk about ways in which we might be able to there are ways to lower what the final cost of that project would be we don't need to continue to move forward in that  financial obligation for three point two million dollars but one of the things that we were it was really important to us was ensuring that as we move forward the boat vote we've been for that for now so that we're not in a position that we're under what they want then we all have to put our heads back together and figure out how we move forward with you know what is still standing infrastructure up there and what options might exist in regards to  cent increase in factory taxes which is estimated to be a little over one hundred eighty five dollars and out of the annual increase on a two hundred twenty five thousand dollars home it's important to note that this tax increase includes both model really estimated revenue on the low on the low end fairly consistent to what we've seen historically with the march school as eric referenced earlier the hope is that with some of these features we will dr was regularly pretty pretty well attended and i think as we're seeing issues with the beaches around town we believe that the estimates around revenue are very conservative but because we don't know what it will look like we so like we mentioned we are looking at a number of different ways to lower the tax burden for the project and the first like nicole mentioned is increased revenue so the number that was used was budgeted really conservative way we think it will bring in a lot higher amount and when we were looking at similar communities in other places if we looked at waterville maine for instance that has a pool and exists and there are a lot of similarities between the two communities the revenue that they were able to generate was much higher than what we're planning for but of course we don't want to kind of count our chickens before they hatch as well so the number was very conservative there is also an active committee that's focused on outside fundraising to help offset the cost of the build itself or to you know whatever specific mechanism is they move forward with but i do know that they are doing a lot of work to kind of bring in outside philanthropic dollars to help lower the tax impact and i do know that there are a number of them here in the room tonight so if you're on mixing and mingling after the public hearing you want to get involved and help support their efforts i'm sure that they're still looking for people to be involved in that initiative and then also we're looking as a council in the city largely as kind of examining creative financing opportunities that might lower that tax impact as well so i know one that has been tossed around as potentially looking at deferred principal payments so for instance for the first five years the city could only pay interest on the debt obligation and then slowly step up those payments to start actually paying into the principal that way it's not a sudden hit on tax impact that residency and we can kind of phase it in over time that's just one idea we don't have a sense path that we are definitely moving forward with one way or the other because obviously a lot of it depends on whether or not the bond passes but we just want the community to know that we are looking at lots of ways and kind of you know opening every door we can to analyze how we might be able to lessen the tax impact for any city residents while still moving forward the pool is going to be part of the august fourteenth primary vote at the senior center from seven am to seven pm i think we actually have another visual reminder so we can leave that slide up and take out an op ed back to you in terms lot of kids that live in my section of the community that don't have a summer camp opportunities don't have places to go and providing a safe healthy you know do a recreation space where community members and congregate build great that were about to happen we could pretty easily based on the information we already have put together a smaller proposal or any kind of a difference coming nation of things that are out there and bring that is seen as the november election so it wouldn't throw the real meaning of even cool completely off track  prior to serving on this council i served on the community service commission and a lot of work has gone into this effort to bring this to you today and i would say that there were really reflects the will or community this is what the with the information you need to make a decision about whether you think this is the right direction for the community and whether you feel that this is a project in the works and it's really a good time to ask me budgetary questions you running that conversation concurrently in think we're going to have some updates what we had said to the public seems to been forgotten a couple places but what we said is by the in the longest we're going to bring back additional details about that project right  that was stated in all the literature of the information available for folks and we're at the point where we will be bringing much more clear numbers in terms of what that project in fact looks like over time as well and then i think from  you know what you heard this presentation to there are still some decisions to be made in regards to how this financial package would still go together it's sort of very similar asked of taxpayers when you put forward a number of three point nine two million rate versus eight cents right off the bat you could say hey this is what it costs this is what should be put forward for taxpayers at the same time so i just want to point to folks that similarly i think the counselor holsten used that good example of yellow  that there cities comes around tax base and then you know the from the flexibility simply with the council's talked about before as we have a couple months to really bring in an integrated and any type of fund raising that could come in you know this is a different type of project and then look at main street with a lack of federal subsidy and additional sources of funds available to us at the same level so what that means is you know for that fund raising to come in and have an impact on what we would present to the voters in march you know we're going to have to see some movement pretty quickly i know there are several sub here who've committed to trying to help get to that point where we get it to a place where it feels feels better from a tax standpoint so in the past we have offered to subsidize and provide transportation to both the essex school former campus on the lake and the y m c a pool and we have the y m c a actually create specific swim times and offer transportation there eggs when we made the decision to close the pool we did so with an asset that was over thirty years old it had served a good long useful life and if the community gets thirty years off of this new  all that that's a reasonable expectation we can't sit here as this body is presently comprised of nor can anybody in city hall from staff or stress to speak very intelligently to what situation a few years ago the decision was whether or not we were offering a safe environment for recreation and we felt that there was not the expertise on staff to make that call and which is why we brought an engineer  to take a look and say what's wrong with this system how much is it going to cost to fix is your investment in the fix is how long can they last how long can this or the community after that the answers to all those types of questions were not good and in addition operational keeping care budget in there for the future and doing so in a professional manner that includes professionals that know they're doing not rely on members for public work staff w lot to take on but my biggest concern is you know it's over twenty years or so this is first infrastructure grows and like everything that's going to keep coming down the pike you know to  steve's point part of our thinking was that it is fulfilled out represents the community's vision it ought to be put to go in august if it's not ultimately supported and we do have some time to offer and remember the technical terms for what's used to build a pool but there were some material changes that could be you know how much they were cheaper for the actual cost of bill but i think you know i can't speak much for the other folks  but i think we do many of us will be agree with some of those specifically i felt like the amount of cost saving did not justify the amount of additional hears we could get out of the materials that were something worth investing in i don't remember the specifics of what there were but there were a number of material costs that can be scaled back or essentially cheaper so that it was still a difference in the tax rate was no greater than one cent so it wasn't a substantial difference between one model or the  your response is that the end of your term which was in rigorous or providing a sort of pool for the kids in the community i think there's also a lot of really positive benefits to providing kids within that space  so i think that would be expanded with us and in addition i think we're talking about getting community members in from outside going to ski so people in the surrounding communities for patronage which will help with their revenue having a  there was a differentiation in the past the structure to between residence and the residence you know that's set in stone obviously those are decisions you've got to make down the road of exactly what that piece structure looks like to recount if you know you have to watch some of the previous discussions we've had around us personally i feel like it's really important bill clinton that we do and we are process for families and children and don't have the financial opportunity to be able to afford that just because we want to make sure that this businesses and other entities for informal streams of income or money right you know permanent business and then turn around and say hey by the way  but as individuals as politicians sitting out here we all can make the decision whether to reach out to people or not and make asks and that's something that s what types of assets they're making you know and just the other follow up decision we have done a pretty exhaustive search of where we can find pools of additional funds even grants and things that you know there are some small ones there aren't  significant that there are not ones that have tremendous impacts in the calf i think i've seen is a hundred thousand dollars which in the three point nine million dollars project still matters but from you know from the real  for i think it's a fifty thousand dollars limit so we are looking for all of those pieces and i think the point made earlier is this bill authorizes us to bontoc to that amount but anything else we can bring in through grants or on a federal level for these kinds of projects that is just not available anymore that great landscape has shifted really dramatically since they use those funds to still be there just like there are  to what offsetting revenues can be raised for this project what offsetting revenues are we able to access from the federal government for main street projects and we're going to have some difficulty discussions i the the decision here was to say take enough to do the entire project ensure that we have the authority to do that and then back into what that final number looks like be a stock of other sources in the other type of thinking around creative finance with most of those opportunities that subject matter experts that are necessary and needed so it becomes the department head working with the finance brains angela jessy from a management perspective so there's nothing to designate a grant writer that sitting at a desk but we have you know we take you know if it's an economic development or community development grant you know how they would work on that grant probably tapping into paul or communications person and your financial person and just see from the leadership perspective each year we've been running somewhere between a penny to two pennies just in nationally or crew in costs around the city meaning keeping things all services this and that's what we've been running herself i just want to share if you are looking for more because information it was an army twenty first meeting in that package page forty two includes information on the rates information on the three different proposals that we and that's the other option rate is you know just tell us how could you can get the full moon in we could get up to budget season and not just out of no feeling but there could be a conversation about the whole the components of the project that's a possibility greedy and it's always easy to look back i want to make the really clear it's always easy to look back with with our help heads held high and forget very quickly about the financial situation the city with through for decades and extreme budget constraints and people world doing the best they could to get by so i don't want to make it sound like you know casting stones from the glass house when it comes to that but you're right and we've tried to build of this budget it or last conversation about this this is about christ pride if it saves one life from our community from the kid who fall into the river who doesn't know how to swim shame on us we need of that can provide the safety around water and all our kids should have this as an opportunity so i think when you really think about it is the price always to get information from primary resources and people in the city if you've got questions about budget stuff your neighbors probably know a lot about this but never a bad idea to run that assumption right through somebody connected to the city just to be sure our last the last time that we came with the recommendations was at the june fourth meeting of city council and i've included it in the planning commissions packet with those recommendations where to kind of bring you up to speed with where we are and if you have any questions that we have to take so  we've met twice since the last time that we've been here and we've used those meetings to really look at to the priority policy and the priority strategy that we have identified last presentation to council  i have laid that all out for you in a memo it's surprising how long it takes to discuss a single eye disease or pretty complicated issues so that's all that we got through was talking about the affordable housing replacement ordinance and just beginning to talk about an affordable housing trust fund so i have refresh your memories in the memo on the housing commission purpose and the guiding principles that we're working on her and i'm going to turn it over to the housing commission members to give their recommendation year i think you've got statements here i think the big thing would be if you want to share any philosophical underpinning with the group approach the problems in the potential solutions with and if you want to highlight any of those kind of broad think yes you're right there's you know one of us that tell you tell us what direction you think is best but if there's any specific philosophical highlights you guys want to start off with that you just i think the reason why we are able to move through what we do as quickly as we do is because we really try to rely on means because i think once you once you do get into a philosophical debate everyone seems to go off on a tangent myself included and i feel like we've done a good job reeling it in and i think that everything that we have to fight it you can point to one of the guiding principles and see ok it's obviously there isn't a deep connection there you know we are we serve in an advisory capacity to the planning commission alternately and i don't think that any of us takes our role  i feel like we are aware of our plates and we know what's above our pay grade and i feel like we have relied heavily on either the planning commission or will and also the departments to guide us when necessary and i would agree we have access to a tremendous amount of data that heather provides and i think over and over again if we go back to that  facts helpful to me answering your question requests i don't like to add that i think primarily what we're dealing with with the affordable housing replacement ordinance is dealing with our principle to something from a process perspective as well so i think it's important to know as you know write her a little off kilter here and write cycles and one of the reasons we want to have this meeting was to make sure the housing commission the planning commission the council world comfortable with the general direction of where we're going through with some of these policy recommendations i think what we want to keep in mind about tonight is are we on the right are the three kind of policy bodies on the right track not the same page about a direction and then it would this recommendation would turn over to the planning commission to actually draft an ordinance that would come back to you for that or ordinance approval process so i think it is i just want to say that to say this is the theory behind these recommendations that after a lot of looking at the data and looking at other model we're going to see things like that but this isn't the only time the planning commission or the council will look at these to provide housing to meet the needs of a diversity of social and income groups particularly for those households of low and moderate income to reduce the likelihood of displacement of current residents due to redevelopment of existing affordable housing units and to offset the loss of housing with new construction and to support retention of an adequate housing inventory in the city so frequently and housing replacement ordinances just about number of units not necessarily also about affordability so we kind of piggyback two things into one here it's not that it hasn't been done before it most certainly has but it can be one that's just about maintaining a number of units so there's an inventory and if he were doing both of those things so the housing commission went through a series of questions and took votes on which direction we felt we should go with this ordinance and so these are the recommendations were making at the planning commission moves forward with drafting an ordinance the commission recommends that it's a city wide replacement workin specific to any areas of the city we recommend that the number of units lost that will trigger the ordinance replacement is three units the reason for that is because we have a large number of duplex units in the city family units as opposed to seven percent in the m s a metropolitan statistical area of forty percent engine county so it's higher than the surrounding areas and in addition to that forty five percent of those are only occupied so that's one way that  affordable homeownership is made available people can use that rental unit to subsidize their mortgage so we certainly don't want to be sacrificing affordable home ownership in order to maintain affordable rental units and we think they're both equally important so that's why we've set that threshold that three so that would leave those duplexes units alone the commission proposes that the affordability threshold triggering the replacement requirement should be units that are affordable to household earning under eighty percent area median income and that's a household income of fifty one thousand three hundred eighty two dollars per year that will capture the broadest possible range of affordable units in the city if we had said it at a lower income it would be a narrower band that we would be preserving the next is one of those things that we saw as maybe a little bit of of the pay grade of the planning commission were recommending that there be a required to ration for maintaining affordability at that should be included in the ordinance but the planning committee commission should work together with some of our housing partners that are more familiar with what those affordability requirements are for different funding  know we don't want to set some arbitrary number of years that doesn't make sense in terms of building affordable housing  improved eighty excess ability in units classified as handicapped accessible and we talked about a bunch of other ways that they could be comparable and decided to be silent on those it was a pretty long conversation so those were the two that we  demolished there has to be advance notice to occur in time so that sets the vermont tenant handbook says a period of time so i think it's sixty days at least that they require to give notice to the tenants and so we discussed whether we should the commission recommends that the following exemptions should be incorporated into any any further exemptions that might be established by the planning commission and exemption for owner occupied multifamily properties units lost due to conversion of previously single family dwellings from a multi unit building back to a single family home property that has been ordered demolished by the city except where it is determined that the deterioration was caused by  the commission recommends providing several options for meeting the replacement requirement as follows and these are pretty common one juror used in the place where news and replace onsite replace within city limits for a fee in lieu of replacement to be paid into the affordable housing trust fund that we will discuss a little bit later the housing commission recommends as devilish in a field loop payment within the range of twenty five thousand to fifty thousand dollars for unbuilt required replacement unit and that is a low threshold fifty thousand dollars is what we look at some other comparisons of fifty thousand dollars as what portland maine uses but burlington had one that was one hundred thousand dollars for their inclusionary zoning  since that was recently evaluated as being too high and keeping people from taking that option developers from taking the option it was were recommended by an outside consultant paying lower that so we've gone with a low fee and loop  so our hope is that we can have people pay into an affordable housing trust fund and then use that in strategic interpretive ways with our partners because we're not going to be getting low income housing tax credits every year maybe every five years and so we have a good pot of money that we can use to leverage to bring in partners and use with tax credits then we may be able to build a better house dozen owner occupied multi unit properties comprised of three units or more that would trigger this ordinance so there should be some kind of relief structure housing commission recommends that the planning commission should develop a compliance monitoring structure process and frequency i began in the evaluation of the city of browning to inclusionary zoning ordinance insufficient monitoring was one of the big issues called out the commission recommends that the ordinance that new construction has to be built it just keeps the owner from selling the property without any replacement and then the housing commission recommends that stakeholder groups should be included in the development of the replacement ordinance this also ali with the when you see housing needs assessment recommendation from two thousand and sixteen and follows the evaluation of city of burlington's inclusionary zoning ordinance concerns about some of the some of the areas that have caused decreased effectiveness of the policy this would allow those to be discussed in advance so that we can kind of catch those areas by speaking with developers property owners etc so that we can come up with a useful effective policy  down because with all you guys have done a tremendous amount of work and have really evolved conversations and we have a very capable housing commission with a lot of professional  community perspectives on there that are really informed and really guy of all this is not been turned back towards either the affordable housing development community or the development community and you know all for feedback and i think that that's a really important factor and one that is extremely extremely critical because as somebody who works in the horrible housing there can tell you that go to half of my job is going into communities that have implemented well  meaning all citizens that are deterring us from being able to do our jobs and making it impossible for us to do our jobs or it's into the wall and i don't you're going to hear that very consistently from the if you will house a community that that that is always them anything and then you were talking just before the trust fund yeah i well so we had a series of questions that we were going to answer about the affordable housing trust fund recommendation but we ran out of time in our meeting because it took us quite a while to get through that first  so we did take a vote and the housing commission recommends establishment of an affordable housing trust fund so to be continued on that one zero zero also redo the intent the intent of the affordable housing trust fund is to promote create and retain affordable housing options for low and moderate income households through the distribution of grants or loans to organizations were projects that create preserve rehabilitate or replace long term affordable housing units as well as by providing grants or loans to low to moderate income first time  know who's who's tracking the number for whom this now who knows when this is supposed to be triggered those that even the very simple question we can't even answer right now so it's we're trying to get that framework in place in the we're going to have to asking the planning commission to do but i would certainly say look at the report the evaluation of burlington and part of the problem was they have i believe they have one person c d o who was charged with monitoring and they felt that that was absolutely insufficient to be doing that in addition to that person's regular job and it just wasn't happening and so they were afraid that there were a lot of units that were really slipping through the cracks that soon from a monitoring standpoint not only do you need to do it from the municipal standpoint but there's got to be some kind of read where there's an expectation that they do a certain set of things you know some some war showed where all of our subsidized housing units are in the city and they're actually pretty clumped right now they tend to be along main street very much in a park here here so there's more to be done in terms of evenly distributing that throughout the city so it's something that we've started to just touch and i think that if we are to go forward looking at him in arizona it will be based on looking at mapping and looking at areas that are currently excluding and i would say that there are some areas within our city that the zoning itself is exclusionary so yeah i think that's how we would approach it if our direction is to move forward does that answer your question the other part of your question terms of the the fee in lieu be lowered to a certain degree that is a little intentional because we need a way to grow the housing trust fund which we see as  potentially far more effective tool to grow the affordable housing than just you know helping people replace it onsite because of this ordinance you know if we have actual funds in a housing trust fund that we can leverage with nonprofit and yes i would also provide us with money for it for example the east down project is coming in that's a true mixed income development that would give us money to be able to help to subsidize a project like that so i have thirty nine units i think it's seventeen units are low income and then there are four that are for those at risk of homelessness so you know having that affordable housing trust fund can allow us to pick and choose and ensure that we are helping those sort of developments to happen and i think the reason we recommended a range was because i think we recognize it needs to sting enough but also not too much and i think that that's probably where but you know twenty five thousand may very well be at threshold that's way too low though so just to be really want to is every every dollar on there has a dollar for dollar impact on the value of the property and not the supposed value  the praised value of the property it lowers the net present value from a track lucian for rent perspective in its actual tangible value so what people firing is if there is just a straight line with a massive number placed will raise and i think so my concern with i have one very specific concern of the blue replacement and that it just it's i'm not concerned if let's say three units are being replaced right now i'm ok with a payment into a truck housing trust fund that goes toward developing affordable housing where else in the city i think when we're we start to see if you know seven eight ten above units are being replaced and then let's say a very large development this going in that's right start to get more concerned with issues in the coal mentioned in regards to kind of segregating our city by economic opportunity and so i think i don't know if it's something you talked about but if there might be any unit threshold at the other end where it really would trigger needing that replacement to be on site let's say after those ten plus units that were being replaced  they're looking to bankrupt the property don't show any way to run it down as low as they can before they can reconstruct it so this ng is just another case of saying it's is so well meaning to try to make it such a definitive thing to say that it's from a one size fits all perspective it doesn't work and it's not this is not presuppose this is in the community you go into that it's been applied with with a roof on it or without some kind of financial out the beautiful thing that we have this opportunity for our community is that we are at a scale that if you actually use our nimble size to put clothing in affordable housing or makes the most sense in the other beautiful thing that's happening right now is that all those financing mechanisms were available or incentivizing mixed income development they're pushing those nonprofit developers to find different a m r ranges within the same projects but still create this real net you know benefit of enough affordable housing units to justify the expenditures so we have that ability to it's not whether or not we're creating for one house or not it's about how to do it and i think the conversation i heard it that i want a conversation that all the data research and information that was presented to that group and talked about all indicate is that if you can put money into the hands of the public body in the city in this case and then work with those nonprofit developers to actually do targeted are we going to end up with all of that affordable housing on the gateways anyway like i feel like we don't have a way to encourage it in america very single family we have the possibility of changing knowing there if if we decide to go those are the areas that have exclusionary zone i see so that makes sense i think that's a possibility i mean obviously that's a long conversation and i do like the city wide focus good actually the place is you know we've heard concerns that we don't want to be pushing all the subsidized housing to that outskirts but it's actually all very centralized it's all in a core in the center of the city with you know a few i think just to go back to the numbers though i don't why i don't watch the emergency valve to be so excessive all that every say it's being utilized in every you know i don't know if there's a balance to find where what's the right that we're not completely stifling development entirely but that also it's not so easy that it was like yeah ok there are some money in the pot and i think community deep these are huge ideas and once there is life to the community some of them are going to work really well and others are not and i think that none of us is under the false impression that this is all the right information so there has to be a pointer reevaluation and i think we talked about that being the planning commission's call  process and we're looking at what potential streetscapes could look like and it's this amazing fun firebrand lively street and i really want to ensure that all of our community members from the writing of different economic brackets are living on that fire for the amazing representation of what could be a really cool gateway into her own city and so i do area that if we just make it so you know a bio we might not end up with clustering because we might be more specific and how and move and breathe that the the reality is though that the financial tools affordable housing is hard it's really it's really difficult it's really difficult is it numbers don't work this is it in like that perspective of it is is is futile akin is totally right from a philosophical perspective that there's also just there's numbers in trying to underwrite development and the fact remains that these projects all take a lot of subsidy like we all take a lot of subsidy  costs a lot of money to make them work at the rents that out of work all so as much as we can also create tools i would just challenge not to think in the conventional fashion of if something's missing if something's taken or changed can it not be it in a different way and format in the comedian can we not play a critter key role in that into me that's what it's about it's functionally creating opportunities to do that kind of integrated housing work while also not creating impossible environment to do also what is a good work as well in providing a range of health and that's that's really really important because you're also talking about pushing forward housing on the people who have no idea what they're doing with it and forcing them to create housing that they don't know how to manage and they don't and they don't live and it can create a very explosive environment if people don't understand how to do that so well meaning concept and idea but there's a reason why formal housing developers do for one house and development and then manage those units it's a very specific type of work it just is so i would just challenge us to open our minds when we talk to that development community and hear what their concerns about it  what kind of forecasting they can give us in terms of the types of resources that are available to create those units because when you start counting projects what their rents have to look like any number of units it changes the project and it changes the financials not drastically these units don't cash flow that's not the purpose of them and i understand that we all like to think of this big fat rich developer of that's making all these monies often multifamily development and the reality is the margins are never that war a project by one or two units rents being different can go or not and so to me i just feel really strongly that we have we have to have open minds about what type of financial tools we can bring the table to try to accomplish the and i don't know the whole basis of the project is you know tens of millions of dollars but there's a certain percentage of that project and it's coming back and free equity from the federal government because of the low income housing tax credit program we're going to get as another said maybe one of those every three years maybe five years maybe something like that so to expect that that level of development can only occur once every three to five years if there's affordable piece of property is not that's the balance that is trying to be struck here and so i think it's not we you know affordable housing is where is it is it is a goal that we're never going to be able to achieve we know based on the data we have  question is are we going to lose it or are we going to start over you know lose it in certain parts of the city that's they're not trying to crack and if you are going sers we're going to try not to but i also think that the reality is that we we will lose son in certain parts of the city and it will be relocated to other parts of the city and it may remain and i feel as though i feel as though where you know not to say that the planning commission has a big job on their hands you know but they do and we all do you know and this is this is going to need to be i think in hearing continue conversation and i think the some of the people are wanting to develop i know certain things are still moving forwards and things have stalled at work in progress so i do think we need to have a conversation about managing expectations and the reality that it's just it's just that the planning commission stalls a lot of work to do on this and the planning commission has a huge amount of work to do in the next several months around the master plan  has a very full schedule through november before master plan can steal site so i put that before you i don't have any great solutions to that you know i we ask them to pause at some point and take this up which would leave us in the position of having expired masterplan and has some implications we asked them to do more which is a lot to ask of volunteers  don't i don't know if that's true because i mean i feel like you're retired to a lot about the details numbers and mainly you know the number eight number nine but overall i think this is absolutely the right direction i think having them spend a portion of one meeting the other half a meeting of every of those to give some feedback on the direction of where this policy at least gives a sense of power to move forward on a productive fashion i think the other thing to do would be to bring back next time a report on how many permits you have active how many active conversations we have going for development so the understand the urgency of this issue and how many projects it could functionally extra meeting or an extra hour on one of their meetings that let's figure out my feedback on that months to make this like the next topic to address that's the thing for me my concern is that the shovel and shovels in the dirt that the attractiveness of the pretties and planning to redevelop them because of the project will come so i think we'll i don't know who knows it could not happen but there is the possibility that redevelopment plans could be put in motion while before reconstruction begins because the development community knows that it's going to being done or frankly to give feedback on these points not to pass an ordinance at this point in time i think we're trying to develop a suite of of solutions for a that's that's the idea and the concept also then be talking about fifteen other witnesses well and i also think that the work that housing commission is doing on these other pieces informs each other break like this is multiple pieces of policy coming into one or evidence for me personally i don't see the harm in having a delay on the line conditionally and at this stage when they could weigh in on the bigger picture  community members to pay taxes to go on to here to volunteer on our commissions to send their kids to our schools and then to have zero ability to take part in the decision making process for how their tax dollars are being spent on  of communities of san francisco as it in school the school board and the school budget elections there's a long history of non citizen voting in this country to begin with and own base what i mean the founding of our country was built on the principle of no taxation without representation i don't a strong interest in opening up the ensuring that we're making and giving opportunities for every single one of our community members that has a vested interest in their quality of life here the ability to always be a part of that process i'm also interested in this issue as well i think that the atmore status of representation and i think that there is at least one more of the missing that was big so there are a few of those kind changes what mechanism by which we consider those changes to make that decision historically the communities put together church community of council and in in citizens with that being said search and five process for opening up the church and saying what are the components in your would want to change when we if it's there's a specific policy direction from us and half that we want to forward  i feel like that's so a difficult charge to give the commission to say we're going to stablish this commission and here is what exactly we want you to do especially when it would require a lot of very specific policy expertise to do that which could also end up working in moving in a direction that as a policy body we might have had a different idea of the direction we want to go with and i think it's you i mean if we're looking at a single issue rather than a host of issues  like this it's not a lot different than the i do that like i think it's incredibly important that we do this with an immense amount of community input have to be a really participatory process solicit community input and use that to craft our policy decision moving forward and i don't think that would be dissimilar from the same way that we might have been for let's say a mean street project but i don't know if the commission would necessarily be the right way to do this so i do think it would should be treated a little bit separately and i also think the commission formed around a specific topic like this would take a lot more staff time than if we were to set it up as a ro t public input gathering process because there's staffing up the commission getting people onto that commission having that commission meet and then still having that commission do all but given like the conversation we just had about who has it we also just had that main street and they're still in the midst of the pool and all of this out of reach i feel like bringing this up right now is like any and or even just like trying to get community input having like another massive change right away for me feeling we should wait like team months or something  start this tonight and jump in there so i think that there are some timing considerations that make me feel a little bit differently and i do put a little bit more pressure which i i totally agree with that right now  concern because this needs to go before the legislature the next opportunity unless we were up all the special election to ensure that this would hit the legislature during their twenty one thousand session the only opportunity we have is the november general election if we were to wait let's say until a town meeting day then it wouldn't even likely get to the legislature until they're twenty twenty session and i also have concerns with being in their twenty twenty session because that's an election year during a presidential election where we're likely going to have a fairly hotly contested governor's race and when that happens the legislation session gets hyper political and it's very possible that this could get completely put on the back burner and neglected entirely as a result or it could become a political beat stick and utilize in a way that would be very challenging to actually very detrimental to our ability to get it passed and i think also within that to that would mean let's say they take it up in twenty twenty even if we're successful in that child much more challenging political environment it would mean that it wouldn't be until the twenty twenty town meeting today that people who were impacted by this change would be able to start voting and considering we just did mainstream we just had a pool we're going to go into a huge  budget vote in march i'm really concerned with the human impact of like feeling like i wish this had been done so much so long ago because decisions are being made that are really big and impact these community members and they already don't have the ability to weigh in on it so i just i think i feel very stressed with kicking the can further down the road and the impact that has on people actually being able to start utilizing this right that i feel like they should have access to and then within that to the other kind of timing consideration is that it looks very very certain fairly certain i mean you can't say for sure but it looks incredibly likely that molecule there is going to move forward and doing the same thing on the november confident we can get it passed on the ballot here and when it's a good think we have an amazing community that will embrace what some a lot of the things that we have already talked about and our biggest hurdles going to be in the legislature and if we're able to do this hand in hand with another community especially earth that gives us so much more political weight than if we're going alone so i guess that's kind of my pitch for you know i get the timing is challenging but i do feel like it's important to go before the november and i was able to look at logistical logistical if you're going to do a church change you have to have two public hearings one of which must be at least thirty days out from the election that you're going to have which must be warned ten days before that so there are some specific logistical constraints that we have to keep  ideas and reasoning behind that urgency and hear back from council as to whether you want to see a timeline of tensional and you want to see a response basically from staff as to what sort of to be the process downer of this meeting so if you want us to do the following no having you and i have no conversation about this if you want to do a full assessment of what this concept would require from a resource perspective not not their charter revoked but the actual process of implementing non citizens i don't think we can do that in the next two weeks given that we have a holiday in the next two weeks and a primary in the next two weeks disapproval i'm moving forward with that information around here it would be a timeline for gathering public input and when we would need to make decisions on if we want to put this on every ballot it would be here's a from my perspective feedback as to what that looks like i think will be enough information to be able to have a more informed intelligent conversation about whether they consider you know if they're still not agree since at that point in time given what we have