the first case for argument this morning is fourteen seven one one says alan first mcdonald's mr morgan whenever you're ready recipient he had he was service connected for p t s d the hearing loss he also when he was in vietnam was so real agent orange which led to prostate cancer and he was a hundred percent there's a service connected for also for prostate cancer there's enough medical evidence in this record to show that he died from the prostate cancer either related to his brain cancer or already contributed to his demise in the pit i'm sure you secretary to make shallots did thirty eight u s c five eleven and the secretary shall decide on questions of law in fact necessary to make a decision and virginia law apparently i'm a tennessee lawyer i'm not a virginia lawyer but virginia law apparently say is on a dissertation did which was the reason the more gay to turn down her time for compensation because the virginia in the veterans court had relied exclusively or predominantly on the issue of what the depth are to get that not the underlying conclusion then i guess i could see your concern that given as judge mo english and the facts are a little different as i recall right i mean in cushman that was it was one question and the one staff that everybody relied on was clearly a tainted fact here this is just one piece of the record and there's and there actually was an alternative medical right i mean so that there was a false statement in the medical record and here you're saying that perhaps and you don't even know for sure because if dr money was actually licensed in in virginia to also practice law you don't you're not limited to i mean to practice medicine you're not limited to only one state necessarily if you get authorized to practice in other states or if you're practicing in the federal facility it's possible that that time hearing you i'm sorry your honor there are the constitutional issues and race in name only at bottom this case is a challenge to the board's resolution of a complex factual issue was that she raised the question re not what specifically she was raising however if we can see that it was raised before the board the better this court stressfully exercise that discretion the veterans workers that it was arrange for the board however on page fifteen of the supplemental appendix in the veterans court's opinion it exercises discretion and it directly resolved this issue and found that that dr madhi of the death certificate was not an appropriately sign that it was a valid document so we believe in section five eleven to the reconsider listing prostate cancer on the death certificate and she said again no i refer my medical opinion so again in cushman there would be with you but that you're overstating some of your facts here which is making me a little uncomfortable like you said that the veterans court specifically found that she was authorized by the junior logic to make any such finding it just said that that was that there had been enough evidence presented for them to make that determination and you know if that if in fact it's true that there wasn't like an affirmative statement that i thought this through and i really think i'm right you're overstating the fact you're i believe on the issue when dr ramani was approached subsequently she declined she was specifically asked a list ready to ship a client period yes so she declined to change original medical and i know but the but the way you're presenting it is that she went back and rethought about it and made the prince you know profound statement that she was absolute sure she was matas medical opinion if there were a legal question about whether she was even a doctor there was a question about whether to the crisis time out because she was a tennessee doctor versus a virginia doctor or whether she even held a valid medical license could be that could be the case but that's not an issue here there's no question there's no suggestion is not a doctor not a valid doctor she's practicing for the including the cause of death was not service connected so so so the two the two critical distinctions to cushman in this case is there's no question of the substantive medical opinion on the death certificate does not reflect the finding you're telling me that you don't know the answer i don't know the answer right now court there you want that all but but that that is that's the other side point right i mean they're saying the statutory process by lation here is that the statute quite clearly requires secretary despite all the strands of law is that necessary to a decision now we can argue about whether or not it's necessary for a decision or not but given that that question was called out by the court of veterans claims it appears certificate continues to reflect the issue of serviceability leave aside to process for a moment and let's just look about that question a lot which i think is fair to be presented here i mean you've got the statutory requirements that your friend earlier that says that the secretary shall do this and so let's let's forget about the process for a second and talk about whether or not the statute was  section of the statute for the secretary to resolve that dust if it was not valid it still is not tainted evidence for the purpose that it was used it was used to do the medical opinion reflected on the death certificate that medical opinion could be on a death certificate could have been on a separate say it a been bashed to get a bobsy with a biopsy we know for sure but since we don't have a nobody knows for sure i don't understand your first statement on this record dr money is not a virginia doctor i don't see any facts i mean that says that if i thing the board and effective court saying it's not in evidence either way but i don't see that that means that we accept as a factual matter that someone found she not reporting it after everything with her name on it has a tendency one of the v a medical records she's mountain home to him so your address that's what i meant to say a by the directors every address is a tennessee international and that's what i meant to say thank