of in the chamber thank you for reminding myself about that this one i'd like to introduce the committee members that are here at this time first of all i'll start with myself to chair michael vick to reno i have the vice chair from salt mine was to don culch or and other young lady from west maui miss my chair and finally the other young lady from the and our committee secretary tammy frias i will that this time open up for public testimony we only have two items on the agenda today one of them is a presentation on cybersecurity  which i think is going to be very interesting and we've been asked to go into executive session for that presentation so we will be looking to do the cyber security presentation in executive session and then secondly we have the charter amendment that requires the council to approve all department heads so we have two items let's start with public testimony public  i don't see anyone as anyone signed up to testify in the gallery i don't see anyone so ok let's move on to our district offices good morning dawn loan all is there anyone wanting to testify e office denise is there anyone wishing to testify opportunity to come before this committee about twice a year and give you an update on the state of affairs in cybersecurity and the county's reaction and preparation for that our presentation today will include quite a few items that we'd like to only share with you in executive session so it would not really be meaningful to try and break that up today thank you came in the young lady to introduce you you're bad you're you're in trouble no ok so is there any questions in it and i guess mike my o e issue is if it's it's germane that executive actually where most of the questions will come up i will would like to go you and i'm a sherman spreads its morning are you working in consolidation or is some coordinated manner with the risk manager that is based in the department of cooperation coun focus is in slightly different area than ours so when necessary we have conversations but mostly in the technology area we take to the i think each other ok any other questions seen on then i would like to recommend a person to rule seven b of the rules of the council for today's meeting oh to prove all of mir's appointments of department directors the purpose of the proposed resolution is to put on a next general election ballot the question of county and we move all of county department directors that was a mouthful if i even tried so at this time if i hope you all have your revised two thousand and fifteen edition of the charter of the county of molly the green book i hope you all have a copy because we'll be working off of that because you know all those that i just described a moment ago you can refer to the two that so this similar to have the council consider advise and consent powers i just seen here we are five years later and with the discussion on governance support the election of a mare i believe or who are matured enough sophisticated not experienced enough to make a decision through their vote and i respect that  you don't consider them to be adequate or i mean from what in educated to not be able to make the informed decision and so under that transept of my my philosophy  elected mayor and seen the powers especially for the managing director of the director of finance in their assignment to take over the office of them or under certain situations move to the top or expand the responsibilities of the office also included in my proposal i'm members all other department heads and for me it was more of a matter of discussion with you just see if  made sense that we also look at all other directors like how the state does their directorships and basically how the seat incarnate on a little does their directorships so if placed in the proposal all other directors currently not under the charter that has advise and consent and those that are required by specific commissions or boards that have the power of a of those that are being nominated to see if they have the experience the general knowledge of governance and more importantly the bill a b to manage and direct personnel understanding the need of public finances and how far before advantages are generated and expanded i think are key ingredients of what makes those people be able to serve the county in the counties best interests these questions and if not if we need to adjust this to a certain entity or departmental body then i need to get a response from i've been more unhappy on behalf of the committee to send out a letter to him ever you feel needs to help us address this situation so with that being i'll stop it again with our vice chair and i'll just move again just like i have all morning long so the coach they miss a chair and i think mr bringing this up and for the most part i agree with him on what he's trying to do here it just makes a little bit more sense i do have a couple of questions and some concerns first i think from mr coo she's standpoint are there any state statues that may be strict us from doing that for all the department heads or we are we   you know i'm a little torn on the managing director portion because that's generally the the person who would be mares trusted individual that they want to deal with the departments with so mr chair i have a little bit of an issue with the managing director part but i understand what mr okama saying is there number two on the list so a possibility but for the rest i think it's a good idea it may help alleviate some of the issues that the people that are looking towards changing the government they may be able to be a good compromise on that at this point as we get into each different one and we might have some that we may want to do as far as the qualifications i mean where we now have a golden opportunity to see what kind of qualifications are necessary and we may want to discuss that individually but for the most part  can concur with mr all commas direction here and as i said the managing director we have to really think about that here to further discussion now and tha resumes they have all the what you call that criteria and qualification and requirements for the position and they make their recommendation and then the recommendation is done forward to the entity and you know i've been very intrigued with that idea because in many cases in corporations that's what happens especially for higher management or middle management they have these human resources or committees or professional agencies that go ahead and recommend based upon the qualifications and the requirement of the position itself and still and then done still the approval would come back to the cultural as far as that is concerned so not a little thought to be put out there just just for thinking for this is you know me so come on that's one of those that i've been bantering in my mind that you know it would then give us an opportunity to like you seeing we have all the requirements in the criteria  now instead of the me out trying to get a bunch of people may be having these professional groups saying hey i recommend reeky i recommend stacy and you know they'd recommend and then the ms can pick from dia and then the council have the final  a very good point but for me again it creates some area of confusion on what version are we really on so i think that coming is something constructive and something we might want to look jumping down the page section sixty two and bracketed zero zero emission including the corporation counsel in prosecuting attorney has is being omitted from item three and so meaning and i'm just trying to figure out meaning that these two bodies these two positions will ride with will not be terminated i fired by the police commissioners as well as the fire chief by the fire public safety commission is given the authority by charter all others i am proposing comes under the purview of the review and you know we can we can we can see you know this should be left up to the mayor and again part of the discussion we had in the past was to allow the mayor a sound flexibility of developing a team that supported his division and direction he wanted to take the county i said think we still need to give some ability of the top elected official for the executive branch to have some manner of finding a team that can support that vision that the qualified to perform on behalf of the people itself and i think that's the issue is the qualification of those that are given departmental charges and so i've left it open you know if you if members through that we don't have it currently but that's something we might we could consider i think for water supply we are required to have at least one of them to be an engineer for water department we could make it so that board of them are required to be engineers depending upon again the level of expertise the count the council feels is required in the performance of the department to carry out its duties and responsibilities but you know i leave that up to the members i mean if you want parks i think the people there would have further confidence in their government so that is part o'connor for bringing up that point also in regards to qualifications and i know mr couch touched on it but that definitely i know my office has been looking through the different departments and especially public works d v m these type like you mentioned to have certain qualifications and i think it's an extremely important thing having dealt with the departments you know and in the past several years i think but it's not here in the charter so i would like to see that added in i don't know if this document is the time in place but perhaps at another time but in regards to the hiring and firing and i understand not taking away all you know having that check and balance but then not on every level given the mere like you said some kind of control over who's in his department but for me i think mr grossman tried to push something through to make it more equal on both sides to do have a say in the fire in pursuit of a person and i see there is a conflict i mean unfortunately yeah we have concerns well who's your box you know who's who has the power to fire you and thereby you're going more citing towards that end of the you know that the issue whether it's corporation concert i mean we've had our issues different departments you know i hear from the  have that but if he enters some positive movement four times too so i'm kind of in between on that one still have to vet that one out and think it through but i do see the negative impacts also in the way the process works today but i understand so it's that's a tough one chair for me to really hone down which way i want to go you know definitely but i see there's good and and yeah i have their way out you know what would really work and all the way through and again this is just the first round of discussion you know i thought oh we're not going to get action today but it's just to get the general consensus and feeling a what resolution and if you have specific ideas or other alternatives like what i presented you know as an alternative you know where we can do and have a professional group find these qualified people and not be leaving it up to to a special point a group and i understand when we still come with scenes that you want to have your people there to share your feel your dreams and your you in business sometimes of is a be counter productive and you know move and so you know some of these departments maybe one day in the not too distant future and i don't want to stray off too far from wichita commas where the good person that person is now but i think we should all calm because he's kind of homed in on what i think a lot of us feel now we just got to kind of figure it out you know so good to me by so good thank you very much chair i'm excited that we're talking about this particularly in view of what is going on with this committee that is looking at this subject and i've been trying to pick close attention to what is going on there and if i have a meeting then i've made sure that i have watched it on a coup because i want to keep track and you know the conversation and what they're thinking i am kind of amazed as i look in the gallery that there's no one here today i really thought this would be a full gallery day because this is these are the subjects that are being tossed around and talked about big time and one of the reasons why some people feel we should have a new form of government is because they feel that they'd like to see a different way to select department heads and i think it's interesting that nobody scared but anyway we're here and so we have an opportunity  i like the idea basically i like the idea i think it's really really important can get we find qualified people to head our departments i look at what is in the charter and even what is being proposed and i'm not happy with it big as to say that you have to have three years five years in administrative capacity either in public service a private business i don't think goes far enough i think we need a little bit more in terms of qualifications you know just because i have five years in an administrative position or in public or private business does it mean that i can go down to public works and run the department or i can go to parks and rec  and run that the public because basically i don't know diddly about any of that and i really feel that you know it would be wonderful if we had people who have experience in the area in that you know subject area would hope he would have very strong role in who these department heads are and i'm sorry chair but i do not agree with you professional hiring group and i think one of the issues that comes up here is that you have qualifications and i don't have an objection with them coming to council for final confirmation having participated in confirmation here of the folks that we do confirm i found it really enlightening experience you know to sit here and have the opportunity to discuss with you know what their strengths are our fears because we've been told by the public oh we worried about this or that and so we have a chance right here on the floor to clear it up and i found it really helpful particularly in the kids as well i didn't know the uptick in step will and in many cases i didn't but by the time we were two with the interview i knew them and  felt you know really happy with them personally what i've tried to do because we do get kids department directors that we don't we don't have anything to do in their confirmation we're told they've been hired is that i have a personal time with them so that i can sit with them for a couple of hours and find out who they are and what makes them tick and i have found it really really helpful because then we establish kind of an understanding about who you are and who i am and i find it very helpful the only position that unfortunately i'm the second person to say it but i feel it i felt it when i looked at this was the managing director however in order for me to see we don't need to do that i want to make sure that the qualifications to be managing director maybe are a little more explicit so that you know we have standards and you got to meet them if you want to be the managing director in a decade i'd be happy to give the give me because i've been an executive head of been organization large organization it's been very important to me the deputy director of it because that's my go to person who is like we're joined at the hip and i would want them to implement what i want so i have a little bit of a about that but other than that i think this is something that is important i think if we deal with it that the public that is concerned about our form of government may be a little bit more reassured that you know there's better better control of who gets in the issue of terminations that's a whole other whole other situation and it might get a little dicey because of privacy issues and so i don't know i think that's something that i'd like to hear a little bit more and think about a little bit more before we say we want to be involved in too many and that's why i'm at ch nominees down to what i call the selective process you know remake where i think any clout of favoritism or even nepotism and all these other issues that come up for friends and supporters i think that some won't takes a lot of that out of the equation and that's why my suggestion was that and i will back off of that suggestion you know to keep it where i believe keep it on a professional level you know no again the man the council still make the final decisions but i've just seen they would bring up to the qualified people and they would be the ones to look at that and make sure that they were qualified so i don't know i guess there's a lot of talk i think last year some requirements for the corporation council and prosecutor's office i mean position and i did it through an ordinance but it came back in fear  if we're talking about the managing director it's positioned in the charter that if the mayor is to be out of town or is and is not present in a match interactor is the may and so the manag director is also when the mayor is here in charge of all the other departments so i truly believe that his position as acting mayor is so important that we should have that that ability to say that out by two thirds vote or a unanimous decision you man his vote on the floor he shall be removed because he could in the mayor could be off and then a managing director could be doing something completely off the wall that we need to have the authority to at least question or at least look into and how that determination whether he's appropriate for the position at that very moment in time  secondly the i believe the finance director is the third in command if the managing director is not present and the finance directors in charge of all of our finances in the entire county the importance of that position also dictates that we should have the ability by two thirds vote or unanimous vote to remove that finance director if and when that finance director has gone rogue and completely needs to be removed but yet holds his alliances to the mayor and the mayor and doesn't take steps to remove the finance director i think also corporation council although this is this resolution doesn't address it we should we too need to have that balance to avoid a shift in paradigm balance that says ok we also have that power to remove remove you if you get too if your opinions are or your allegiance gets too close to the mayor's side because by by charter the corporation counsel is supposed to be in a neutral position by being neutral position we'd therefore should have that same equal ability to remove the corporation counsel just like having two clients hiring one attorney one client can both clients either one of them can't fire the call the attorney so why not in this case we can't do that but the court the prosecuting attorney is elected throughout this state and where the only county that  appoints but the only person that can remove the prosecutor is the mayor so why are we not given the equal opportunity to remove him because we have the votes voices of the people we are elected by the people so in in and caught in for an example like i said other jurisdictions elect their prosecutor so they have the people power the people voices to elect him and to remove him but in this case the prosecutor is only or only approving him but we have no no ability to remove him so you're taking the people's power out of the mix completely and we are we represent the people so we should have equal opportunity to remove the prosecutor i'm just talking about baseline what is logical and i'm not being political blah blah blah this just makes sense for what is  in the resolution itself yeah i think that we should have the power to approve i'm not sure whether the other directors need to have that go as far as having us have that power to terminate them but these are the these are the directors that i've just mentioned that i believe that we as a council should have that power to terminate because of their impart tents and  and i think this is resolution that we all should take into consideration i don't think we're taking anything away from the elected mayor i believe the then as council our role would be to solidify the appointment by the mare and listening to testimonies from the county governance process i believe they're looking for something so that has the who qualifies who doesn't qualify for any position one applies for there's a job description and there's also what may be required for that particular job description and if we don't have a we do have the next consul should have the opportunity to have oversight over that description with the elected mayor because if we don't now th we have an h r department that we should expand their work to work on the qualification or merits to consider should should there be applicants as such i believe in management you depending on the type of work you do need at least one of your managers to have the subject matter x expertise  if it's the water department if it's engineering that needs that but more important i feel they need administrative skills and management skills because they have many supervisors under them they work with a union they work with the public and all those make our work easier especially when it comes to budget and what it what is truly required or how are we going to improve so to me  i think the qualifications is should be expanded more that we have access to it and getting back to the managing director i don't have a problem with us also  appointment from the mayor but i also feel that the process of evaluation though it may be a personnel matter since council is involved with the personnel in approving and appointing we should have access to the kind of evaluation process that is being done because often we don't know and when we have complaints from the employees themselves we're not sure if there is a process of evaluation or what have you so whatever the legal minds can work for that would be but i think too if we can an approving the qualifications if one can be developed for for us because how are we going to decide if that appointment is qualifies for that cit position i think it's important i'm not sure about we having a say as far as to fire we haven't department it does auditing we are aware of the budget that comes before us we we should be able to get quarterly or or yearly reports from the department as far as what's going on i think that's before us whether or not we should be the micromanagers i'm not sure i don't i don't think we're elected to be micro managers i think where where it left it to make sure that our policies are are followed through with each department as well as the fifty's sherry portion so i support this as as it stands perhaps you know the fact that we're including  culture something else you wanted to add i don't know how you're going to i mean how you want to wrap this meeting up or are we still going to be discussing it for a little while because i've got some thoughts as well i think that would be a good idea if that's all right with the members i think that's the best way i can approach this to be really fair because every one of you had great ideas and thoughts and you know whether you agreed to disagree with that your colleague but i think all of them but has some merit being a time sensitive i'm going to say it that way i may have to have a special meeting because of that before we get into budget or maybe right after we start budget maybe have a quick morning meeting to get that i don't know if you want to and i'm not sure if i want to do that at that point a week do we come back again me and they really have a fool opportunity to defend everything also we'll know what the governance group is and where they're at at this point you know so then will that we objections would you be amendable to that in and i can't tell you when but get your thoughts in your ideas and your suggestions and bring them forward and you're saying yes we will come but you have something else you want to add to what i just  you in the members for allowing that discussion today i think it was very healthy to have the members share thoughts on the proposal and again this proposal is to encourage this discussion chair but this i know this is not the final draft it intended to be posed to is stimulate this discussion and i would say some of the things that the members brought up i thought was very worthy that i would ask them to also consider why do we want to maintain this charter for  because i was discussions tends to lead us to go back toward a board of supervisors type of structure so is that something that we want to consider as well as on the terminations or you know actions by  the directors of of our departments we could also consider what i would call a resolution of no confidence of no confidence no company other  forms of government use that especially those that have parliaments and once they pass that usually the prime minister resigns because there's a statement of no confidence in the government that could be another way of stating councils intention but i agree with some of the earlier comments from my colleagues we don't want to get into micromanaging those are the policy makers we are and that the operations supervisors and yes we get the calls we get from employees as well as the public but i prefer that we keep very clearly that distinction between branches of government and the separation of powers because i think it's important for us to maintain that in from a discipline standpoint from a integrity of structure standpoint of governance and i would just as the members if they could keep that in consideration as we move forward thank you thank you very very much  q you've wrapped it all up and i think you have to say much more than that i think you know i appreciate what you brought forward and i appreciate every one of your comments today and again if you have specifics that you'd like to see us incorporate the next meeting whenever that may be it probably june would be the opportunity to give you some time to work on your ideas and your changes that you'd like to see us make in the in the chart and i agree with you we still come in maybe we need to revise the form of chartered and even how it's it's it's it's made up and some of the ways that we present it you know take away the form of  three and going straight to as be vice of two thousand and fifteen or as amended the latest version two thousand fifty i don't know the legal beagles like me could be able said let the legal beagles think about the wording but i think we have i am meeting this afternoon at one thirty so please don't be late those who are in that committee and with no objections i'm going to adjourn the meeting meeting adjourn