welcome to this regularly scheduled meeting of the city council whether you're here in chambers or watching from or somewhere else around the world we welcome you to our meeting let's call the role to make sure we have a forum please  with first a prayer and then the pledge of allegiance tonight i'll be leading the prayer and i'm going to do so with a book that was given to me but it was originally from my great grandfather who was a minister in the reformed church we seminary and found its way to me and after that we will say the pledge of allegiance to the flag so if you kindly rise and join us in both of these items place that which is good shall not be taken away from us cleanse our hearts of unselfish selfishness impurity and guile grant that all questions immediately before us may be made so plain that we shall have no forebodings as we make our decision vain regrets liberty and justice for all there are copies of tonight's agenda in the rear of the room in the rack in the rear of the room where you are from following along at home or have internet access you can also go to city of holland dot com go to the calendar section hit today's date you'll find not only the agenda for tonight's meeting but also the background materials that we have reviewed in preparation for tonight's meeting you'll note on that agenda whether it's online or in paper but there are a variety of items on it that are marked with an asterisk and these are items that we have on our consent agenda and the intention is to take care of all these items all together one motion one vote regardless of where they show up in the agenda and our intention is to do that shortly you may however not think these items are routine or you'd like to talk about one of these items and the process is that will first have science read for us the items that are currently markets consent and if you'd like to take one of them off of consent you could just let us know after that fact all members of council can remove items from the consent agenda as well but before we go to that let's find out what is currently on the consent agenda item five to approve the minutes of the regular meeting held on june sixth twenty twelve eleven eight to file executed oaths of office eleven b to refer to staff for study and report an application from michigan would fuels for the transfer of an existing industrial facilities exemption certificate and an application from bench or manufacturing for a new industrial facilities exemption certificate fourteen a one to accept and forward to city council the grant of utility easement for the water main installed by johnson controls near the meadow brook facility at seventy west forty eighth street pending review as to form by the city attorney fourteen eight two to reclassify board of public works wage scale eight as b m nine create a new b m eight scale and place the electric production superintendent an electric transmission and distribution superintended in the new b m eight scale fourteen eve four point one two receive and file them the may twenty twelve monthly financial reports fourteen efore to approve fiscal year two thousand and twelve year end budget amendments as proposed and authorized the finance director to make the necessary transfers and amendments fourteen four point three to approve the revised auto insurance program and lower pricing with scottsdale providing the first one million dollars in princeton providing the nine million excess auto liability at a total auto premium cost of one hundred forty thousand eight hundred ten dollars fourteen eve four point four two accept the low bid submitted by a v e i in the amount of eighty four thousand and twenty six dollars and eighty five cents for technology upgrades in the thirteen budgets point one to accept ownership of communications equipment in the amount of three thousand and twenty four dollars and forty cents purchased through adult counties two thousand and nine homeland security funding  six point two to approve the participation agreement between the municipal employees retirement system and the city for the addition of the mers for fifty seven supplemental retirement program to the city's retirement plan to request the city attorney's office to approve the agreement as to form and to approve the required resolution fourteen east six point three to approve a revokable license agreement with gena sharpness for a project at twenty one west eighth street subject to approval of the signed by the design review board and the community and neighborhood services department to direct the city attorney's office to prepare the necessary agreement with the applicant to pay the legal administration fee and to authorize the mayor and deputy clerk to execute the agreement on behalf of the city fortini six point eight to assign all of the airport land leases as described in the report to the west michigan airport authority as required by the airport ground and improvement least fourteen e s six point nine to schedule a public hearing on the requested tax abatement for adventure manufacturing twelve sixty one waverly road for wednesday july eighteenth two thousand and twelve at seven p m in the council chambers in city hall and to instruct the deputy city clerk to publish and mail the required notice fourteen east six point ten to schedule a public hearing on the requested tax abatement certificates for four michigan would fuels l l c for wednesday july and twelve at seven p m in the council chambers in city hall and to instruct the deputy city clerk to publish and mail the required notice and fourteen point eleven to request by resolution that the michigan state tax commission revoked the industrial facilities exemption certificate number twenty ten and one thirty seven for michigan wood pellets fuels l l c all right thank you that's what's currently on the consent agenda would anybody from the audience care to remove an item stampings metal prototypes they have been before you several times over the past it seems over the past year with whether its site plans for expansion or buying equipment sold for so good news for this company equipment in the value of that is estimated at nine hundred five thousand dollars so the project before you tonight at this hearing is a one million one hundred fifty five thousand dollars they anticipate creating two new jobs over the next couple of years staff is reviewed to separate cation is no objections at all and is recommending that you adopt a resolution approving the industrial facilities tax abatement certificate for a period of twelve years from the state tax commission approval date ok other questions for staff on this particular item like this requires a public hearing or council rules are pretty simple if you'd like to address council on this item all we ask is you step forward the microphone state your name and residential address for the record and you can have up to five minutes to talk with us on this item i now declared a public hearing to be open as we usually do with around the applicants come up first and make any statement he or she would wish to do  i have some additional facility for manufacturing thank you for all the abatements we've received in the past years i think our first one was on the way back in eighty four and well i don't know if this is probably the everything we buy is just major money if something breaks it's major money and with technology changing so fast you know to replace things with a lot of money so it's is abatements are certainly a big help we've been able to provide very good jobs in the two jobs that we're going to supply i'm going to guess we'll be in a sixty five to seventy five thousand dollars a year so salaries so i mean these are very well paying job so they get thank you thanks for giving us an opportunity to expand abatements those many times good to see you again like the microphone remains open if anybody would care to address council on this item here's your chance to say no when i close the public hearing in the recommendation from staff is that the abatement be approved for twelve years as stated earlier is there a motion to move by whiteman supported by for through any discussion we also appreciate roger your partnership and helping to support the public safety services in the city realize you have a business to run and investment and but we really appreciate your donation the last year or two just to support public safety that's our responsibility and a huge level for the community thanks anyone else then let me reiterate our appreciation thanks and it's nice to see you and we hope that you keep getting bigger machines which has bigger parts which mean more building and bigger machines it's a nice but vicious circle is unanimously thank you that takes all the way down to item twelve which is communications from the audience this is the opportunity for anyone or anyone from the audience to address council on any item that is not otherwise located on tonight's agenda if you're interested on a later agenda item would ask you to hold off until that point otherwise rose or council apply name and residential address for the record we have a five minutes to address council the microphone is open good evening and wel good evening everybody my name is mike munch i live at one five four nine seven one hundred thirty eight that and that's in spring like here tonight to introduce myself to you all and running for drink commissioner in the upcoming august primary election university and earned a bachelor's degree and natural resource management and i have something to offer that no other candidate for this position has and that's experience i've worked in the drain commissioner's office for almost fourteen years now through different positions within the office during that time frame so i'm familiar with every aspect of the office so once i'm elected i'll be able to hit the ground running right away i have the indorsement of the current during commissioner and i'd appreciate your support as well and work hard if i could be absolutely you can hand it right there to the assistant city manager mr much thanks for being here good luck to you as as you well know holland is somewhat unique in the state of michigan in that we straddle two counties and i think we're close to having the maximum number of allegan county residents on the council as is possible i think the only way we c have more is if the council member from your ward bob was also in allegheny county because you have counties yes so anyway but you still predominately out of a county on this council and folks at home are obviously watching so thanks for being here  phone remains open for anyone else who wishes to address coun city airport and now is going to become a regional airport for all of west michigan and secondly for the most recently the border public works for those appointments here have graciously allowed me to serve and that's my message today i want to move out of my service as you may know i have filed petitions to become a candidate for county commissioner in allegheny county and there's a number of reasons why i want to do it and it isn't about me it is about service to our residents both in the city and the three townships that make up that district or price of township he thought and ship and fillmore cou so important election in allegheny county because the number of commissioners has been reduced from i will have been to seven so who are the voters sent from district up or to be one of seven say a vocal thing card where he is the last city resident to serve on the allegheny county board of commissioners and that's more than twenty years ago yet as we heard earlier this evening the job creation and economic development that the allegheny county portion of the city of holland gives to the entire area and so i really think it's important for the county and for the city that we have strong communication between those two such a levels of government prior to coming here tonight i was listening to chance i get really that is the network news and the economic news was not that great federal reserve it is again projecting that our own appointment rate next year in the country will be eight percent and that's changing their prediction from about what seven point six percent for next year upping it to eight percent and then following that in the cheery new section was that governments have underfunded because of their own financial ability pensions for employees so in this kind of economic environment i think it's very important as we have seen with the conversion of two city airport to a regional airport authority for governments to work together and that is one of the reasons i'm running the other is the allegheny county enjoys being one of the top two either number one or number two depending upon the year agricultural leader in the state of michigan in terms of its product and its the value of its crops that are grown and shipped that is kind of essential to the problem they're growing at shipped they are not retained and converted into food processing opportunities for more employment so thus while the county has this dichotomy of a great agricultural background there are also some pockets in the county that are among the poorest in the state and that rank frankly with some of our poverty cities on the east side of the state so so economic development is another thing that i think that both the county and the city can share and move forward and finally the third point one of the reasons that i wrote in is i i think that we need a little bit more openness and transparency with our county government this council and every township board that i have been before they all meet in the evening so that citizens like myself have an opportunity past the work day to participate i think it's it's not a bad idea for county government to try out what the other local governments have found to be so successful and perhaps even have the opportunity to have the talent by so that the county government is more transparent it looks like to  be consistent going because you can't have communication between governments if the governing bodies are talking to each other either so i thank you for your time and for the four councilman who are in allegheny county like the microphone is open for anyone else who cares to address council tonight on this agenda item twelve ok we will then move on to a report from the neighborhood advisory committee which hall is i serve as staff support for the neighborhood advisory committee that is a citizen committee that's appointed by the mayor to implement the neighborhood improvement strategy and i am here tonight on their behalf questions that council may have or members of the audience may have and then we're looking for a recommendation from council to adopt this report you know let it serve as the framework for the city as we move forward with neighborhood groups and property improvement program and furthermore have the city council direct staff to begin working with the affected committees in implementing the different aspects of the report so very quickly on the screen in front of you is a diagram diagram that we current neighborhoods of choice framework the neighborhood improvement strategy starts with this idea that neighborhoods in the city of holland should be neighborhoods of choice to get recognize it and be called to it and your neighbors but in the neighborhoods of choice you have to know your neighbors you can't just go home at five go inside turn on the t v and then not interact with your neighborhood the neighborhoods of choice we really have to be you know talking to each other for neighborhoods to be neighborhoods of choice we have to have appropriate construction occurring in these neighborhoods you can have a great neighborhood where all the neighbors are talking and hanging out and getting to know each other city has to approach neighborhoods from you know an appropriate level of master planning and zoning have to have you know strong parks we have to have strong neighborhood commercial areas we need to offer you know transportation opportunities sidewalks bike paths etc the neighborhoods for it to be neighborhoods of choice have to have appropriate property management there has to be understanding that you know in my neighborhood i have to mow my grass i have to read my flower garden here and there so it doesn't look overgrown and you know unattractive and then the final you know aspect of a neighborhood of choice is a good neighbor program it says on the screen the idea of being a good neighbor you don't have to be best friends with a neighbor be respectful of your neighbor way say hi those kind of ideas is what we're talking about you know good neighbors good neighbor programs this idea again and neighborhoods of choice really is the foundation of that neighborhood improvement strategy of what you know the neighborhood advisory committee refers to when they were developing this report this roadmap report in this report there are two main recommendation one paper had groups and then the other one deals with property improvement programs the neighborhood advisory committee in developing the report look that the groups that are existing in the city right now they look at the programs that are existing in the city right now and they said you know how best can the city program that's in the city right now from this program we've seen some strong relationships with existing neighborhood groups such as heights of hope three sixty west corps and then we see other groups that are starting in different areas of the city in the community we believe that we should provide guidance and information to our neighborhood groups not just the ones that are identified as neighborhood connection groups but you know neighborhood associations condo associations we need to keep the lines of communication open the third one is we need to speak at events or speak at the events that are organized by these groups there's a lot of block parties that occur throughout the neighborhoods historically we've done a great job being at this block part specifically the public safety department we need to continue you know that action we shouldn't abandon that kind of approach and then the final one is we need to work to ensure that small funding small amounts of funding is available in the neighborhood identifies a need  can walk alongside of them and provide some kind of finding such as curb appeal projects or you know hourly cleanups there is a role for the city and helping those things move forward then we guard the property improvement programs that committee is recommending that we look at property improvement programs through two lines one is repair or replace projects and the other one would be and here projects the way to find your perry place projects is these are home improvement projects that focus on maintaining the exterior and mechanical parts of the house and has been projects will be one is a cosmetic lee and functionally enhance the home to positively affect the market ability attractiveness of that home i want to go over that again when we talk about hope you know we talk about property improvement programs we have repair and replace your furnace goes out you fix your furnace you're replacing that or you're talking about enhancement ones right now all you have is leading up to your front door what you really want is a porch that extends the entire length of your you know the front of your house that would be a major enhancement if you would add that porch that would change how that curve you know is perceived as people drive down that street repairing space projects we really focus those through our community development block grant h program this is a program that is funded through the federal department of housing and urban development through our c d g program this is offered citywide it can only assist low to moderate income people the neighborhood advisory committee is recommending that we introduce a sliding scale where the less money you make the more assistance you can receive from the city that's a change from current practice right now it's a fifty fifty program so f seven thousand dollar roof the city will give you a thirty five hundred dollars in funding you have to come up with thirty five hundred no matter where you fall in that low income bracket the committee is saying the less money you may  receive more money from the federal government with the max being fifty percent with the minimum being fifty percent so this is a change you know from their current direction the other thing that we talk about in here is th committee sees a need to put a five year lien on the property right now we've had a three year committees of the mine said if we increase that up to five years it matches some existing programs so it makes things uniform at the same time it's a bigger commitment from the homeowner and a bigger buy into the program and then the final one is c d g dollars as council knows has a lot of strings attached to it federal programs typically do an addition to those federal strings as a city over the course of the past twenty twenty five years we've attached a lot of local strings for example property taxes must be paid up to date you know everyone that's on the original mortgage must be must be willing to sign the second lien that we probably got on the property those are things that we could you know we could get very interesting we could you know help homes you know help a homeowner whose taxes may not be all may not be up to date but still needs that furnace the committee is recommending that we create some kind of program where if you don't meet one of the local requirements you can then you know appeal to the community development committee or another committee at city hall to see if you can get that kind of variance the whole idea is trying to strengthen the safety net and fill in the cracks that you know some homeowners that fell through and we've got to do enhancement projects this is a change from where we currently are where we are currently the general fund dollars they are recommending that it be focused in the central neighborhood district right now as council knows we focus our general fund dollars and the our street district the our street district goes from thirteenth street in one thousand lincoln to harrison we're looking at widening it a little bit to include the entire central neighborhood district as identified in our cities on an ordinance that would be a two down the north twenty fourth on the south fairbanks on the east and on the west we're looking at it to be incentive based only committee is recommending that it's going to be a project that really has some to it and really f x you know how that house is viewed from the street recommending that we pay fifty percent of the cost up to twenty five hundred this is a change from how we currently do it right now it can be anywhere from seven hundred fifty to fifty one hundred some projects will go up to four thousand for citing projects what we're recommending is that we take them out and buy them out of the next grant that will give us a few thousand five hundred dollars  we're recommending projects in this program would have to adhere to our own be her program guidelines that are attached to report a couple years ago the our street program in the city program through their respective committees adopted regulations that better defined expectations on architectural detail when you're accessing city funds for your programs so if you are coming to the city saying hey i need new siding on my house he said that's great you're qualified we can help you however we want to wrap the windows or we want to introduce you know fish scales on the gable or we want to put in a belt line or a skirt board along the house instead of just monolithic siding from the foundation to the top of the roof line again we introduced this idea of a five year green for this kind of a program and then we talk about the idea that some projects such as home demolition or new construction could be considered it has been projects and we should be able to partner with those kind of projects and make this funding available to those activities as well  rose colored shaded area is the heart of historic districts just through the historic districts on maps when we create some from neighborhood mats that people get an idea in the perspective of you know the expanse of this district would care to comment on this item be a good time to do it because your motion would you care to leave i guess maybe just to reiterate a couple of things that we talked about upstairs previously there are a number of organizations that have been doing many good things one of which is the our street program and when the whole war neighborhood of choice idea came about in the end the supporting document for that came about there one of the things involved in that was that a strategy would be to look at which groups are providing services within the city now which departments are doing certain things and i think it was just understanding of the group at that point was that the desire was to create of a bit more of a streamline a more effective process and in the process of accomplishing that that certain changes might be realized i mean change is part of life sometimes is a good hopefully most of the time is good sometimes it's a little challenging but i think i think we're realizing that now as part of this process moving forward and and i'm glad to see that this is before us and some excellent stuff in it i guess a point i would like to make i'm trying to make is that even though some changes are going to occur and this document even though it's fairly specific doesn't necessarily say these groups are out of business on this group is still in business i believe the intention is that  if we adopt this it is a an adoption of a framework of action and of philosophies and specific strategies and tactics or will be worked out as a  a process i'll be interacting with different groups who are involved in providing services so i hope that no group will feel ostracized or threatened necessarily by how we react to this proposal tonight but you know as an as an opportunity to you to clarify maybe make some small changes here and there but overall you know hence the services of the city provides and addresses and makes them better that's the intention of this whole playing the whole neighborhood of choice concept so i guess everybody just because things are going to to really appreciate the work of the neighborhood advisory committee in tackling how do we do neighborhoods better it's an age old problem everybody knows the city is a collection of its neighborhoods and outlets families so they've done a great job in not only thinking about negative things in neighborhoods but also how to increase the positive development in a neighborhood and maybe challenge people to do a project that enhances their home on a level they wouldn't have considered otherwise so that's a great part of the program and i'm sure that they're going to develop that more as time goes by and using the experience of the other committees that we have in the city and the staff people that have been involved in order to make this a smooth running and consolidated after it i think is the best that we can do at this time i guess you know it's the best of times and the worst of times it forces us to rethink how we do things and maybe in the long we better serve the people that we are trying to help and course the partnership with good sam good samaritan and their ministries and helping families and neighborhoods find what they're really good at  connecting people with what everybody's good at and using that to make a vibrant community is the essence of what we want our through the city so the city is not the social workers of the community and the way we've reorganized this i think everyone is in their strength area and hopefully it will be much better and help the community and an even better way so i appreciate all the work of everybody rethinking thin was close to you were in the washington district the lincoln district along filled district or whatever and with all the changes of an education etc we sometimes don't know what is our neighborhood what are the boundaries where do we live what is it going to be called and i think this is an attempt to redesign that and it's got a really positive things you know and we need to get the other groups that are working together and really promote this and i think this is a great start and i think it's a great document he six point one some against the city managers office is pleased to report of the following gifts a donation of five hundred dollars has been received from hayworth incorporated for the two thousand and twelve america in bloom national competition a donation of two thousand dollars has been received from red cottages l l c mr robert gordon and ms andrea crossman and an additional amount of up to one thousand five hundred dollars may be received prior to the end of the fiscal year for a total of thirty five hundred dollars to offset entrance fees at bow school donations totally ninety five dollars have been received in support of the adopt an animal program at the digraph nature center from lydia the river family currently kelly nancy scott and sam roberts it is recommended that these donations be accepted with appreciation credited to the appropriate accounts and an expression of gratitude to be forwarded to the donors summer that other people have stepped forward to pay for our children's entrance fee to get people out of their video machines and streets and whatever outs they might think of that may not be as good for them to be able to have exercise at the pool and meet people  a well run situation so i it's awesome to see that type of generosity coming through we may even spend a whole summer without having to charge one entrance fee for the children with this gift so that is great and also the support of the america initiative for holland in bloom for this coming year it's really thankful to have corporate partnership in that because otherwise we can't participate in showcase what howland has really done its whole time we've existed in just nice to have other people come in town and say wow you guys are doing things great and also to give us advice on how to do things better from just the investment of participating in this contest so we appreciate that kind of support as well they were else echo the comments on the pool donation there sectionally generous of these two individuals to do so and  you know on days like the past few that we've seen having a place for children to go is a very good thing and i can't imagine a better night to accept and publicly recognize this donation than tonight with that all in favor please say  project which has been in the making for some years this foreclosure is for two to say located in relation to community upgrade neighborhood upgrade and also flood plain upgrade i would like to  jody well i think ryan has basically described this to you but you know we always do welcome the opportunity to provide some enhancements to that drainage system in particular where we know we've had some problems so the acquisition of this property will allow us to first about create a green space and secondly create some flood shelving and overflow areas so that in the event of heavy rains we may be able to hold some of the water back a little bit and regulated a little better for the folks who are downstream so it will be a nice improvement certainly be able to hold more water than if there's impervious surface there as there is now ok questions  west sixteenth street thank you this is another an opportunity to improve an area and i in the neighborhood of sixteenth street i'd like to introduce phil meyer who will explain the details associated with this and affiliation with a neighborhood connections group three sixteen i thought i'd just take a brief step backwards a little bit just to give you a little framework for all of this late april or early may of every year we are notified ottawa county and allegheny county of properties that have been foreclosed upon in the prior year that become available for initially the state has first option to purchase those properties the city has a second option to purchase those the county has the third option and if none of those three acquire those properties those properties go on on to attack sales later in the summer when we get that notice we distribute the notice around  to the various departments at city hall and see if there are issues or opportunities that those particular properties provide for the city and really it has to be something with the public benefit demonstrate a public good by acquiring those properties and the city can acquire those can if the state has passed on the property and the state has it then the city has the option to pick those properties up the first one as was was just described was picked up because the city saw some opportunities for improving some of the drainage conditions in a particular neighborhood this property and the next property are two properties that we looked at and then were approached by three sixty three sixty the community organization in the sixteenth street area centered in the sixteenth street area roughly between college and central avenue in looking at their needs for their neighborhood organization they identified two properties that they thought would be a stronger community presence in the form of community center twenty nine west sixteenth street is the first of those properties is the building just east of the shell gas station on sixteenth street where the tree knows operates out of the first floor and there are two apartments on the second floor of the building they three sixty is indicated they'd like to convert that into a  into a community center over time with improvements both exteriors and interior of the building and they have provided they have asked the city to acquire it so that we can then transfer it to their organization that they have deposited with the city the asking price but the county establishes for the property that money is on deposit with the city and you have before you a resolution that  would be a resolution presented to ottawa county that request that the city receive that property all right any question for staff at this time a motion would be appropriate please report by hooks tr sport supported by the mayor pro tem like anyone from the audience you care to address this item which would be a good time to do so otherwise counsel discussion and facilitate something that might otherwise have been done through c s s a dollars are ways we engaged in the past on our budget and as a collective group we backed away from the direct funding of organizations such as this and i said when i advocated for that for budget measures that we have that that we should do we should do so and this seems to make sense to me that we would use our organizational resources done is when i look at the municipal stadium we talked about excess properties need to be bedded out and that's what is happening with that when the city purchased  the with not an intention to really do anything with it i see it as an excess property and therefore it should really be put up for a bit there may be other people besides three sixty that might be interested in it by picking someone else and excluding other people i don't feel is the correct way to do it that's why there's the process so even though and certainly three sixty would have an opportunity to bed for that at this point we don't know of anyone else that is interested in it that's not the point the point is there maybe and i think we need to go by that particular rule so i will vote no on th others i can understand that but at the same time we have a position to use our judgment in order to create the most good in the community as we see it and we realize that at this juncture we are not able to support the work  sixty in a monetary way but we do have a position that as city government have an opportunity to act as a conduit in a basically a revenue neutral situation to help them have a space that they can use to bring people together and it's not in and used to model island heights begin with a small apartment that they brought residence together and gradually more and more people dared to come and talk and be a part of a community group many possibly from situations where they had no positive social background but they began to discover that as they went to this community room and got to know each other and grew and grew it to the point that now they want a larger community facility in order to enhance the level of positive community it's being created there so it does seem reasonable that when you have people who are putting their life's work into building relationships connecting people weaving the fabric of society in a stronger way that you want to encourage them to continue to do that in our city so i i really feel like the position of government is to just celebrate those who are doing good and to punish those who are doing bad and the work of three sixty strikes me as those who are doing good and i would like to multiply it as much as we can and encourage them however we can even though we don't have much money to give them to support their work and to hope that they are amazingly successful in working with the families in that area because their success is going to be our success as the city it might be my favorite in town don't sell don't tell styles and that's one of the advantages of having this property especially on sixteenth street i'm looking at it here on the on the monitor in with three sixty does in a sense the upper floors in particular i think is very interesting the idea of activating those as livable spaces again will bring it in value to  this part of sixteenth street more people is always better so that level of investment is very good if you have seen what is being done to the antique store at the corner of central and sixteenth that is also a very encouraging property so more investment in this area is always going to be better i just hope that in the event that between us does move on somewhere else that a potential new commercial entity somehow affiliated with research can go in there and i think that will help really reinforce that commercial commercial district even more you i have some pretty good connections to the organization three sixty is within my ward in this particular property is just outside my ward by hundred feet or so so i've had the benefit of being familiar with three sixty and their work and how they operate and the effects of their presence in my neighborhood  frankly and i'm also very familiar with this commercial area i don't remember that obvious shop but i remember when the bakery was on the corner man do i miss that i fact i remember watching it burn down was a sad day you know there there is this or why you know argument i guess i'll say that many people like to engage in that's about government picking winners and losers  and i try to stay away from our human as much as possible but basically we do engage in that on a fairly regular basis part of what we do earlier this evening we picked a winner we gave a tax abatement to a company who was willing to invest in their business in this community and we say we have from that and we support even doing that and i see this action potentially as doing the same thing three sixty does not enter into a project in a half hazard manner they do it well if they gain this property they're talking about making physical improvements to the billing and i believe they'll do that well which will serve the community as well as the the current tenant and whatever happens after that i believe that there are commitment to the neighborhood and their presence is going to be a stabilizing effect not just for the residents but for the adjoining business owners as well so you know i guess i can vouch for them through my experience with them i understand wayne's point and probably as a general rule hands off is probably a better approach a lot of things take their course but when we have an opportunity to positively affect the welfare of our community and do something we're really with a little risk of the taxpayers in the process with the potential positive outcome that i least i see in this project i think it's worthwhile to do and it's a proper  course for us to take so i'm in full support of this action anyone else like it's probably the most middle of the road i've ever been at anything i can i can understand the points from both sides  my comments are not going to be made on the merits of three sixty heights of hope or any other organization i think the role fantastic and we should be doing everything we can my only concern with this and i hope to have this put on a study session in the near future is that we have some policy discussion on this i think it is when these items come up they come up very quickly we have to make some snap decisions and react very quickly so i i think it be as a group if we're going to have this policy going to have these this type of interaction of this type of investment the community that we have some sort of policy in place you know there was a couple of comments that were going to have a  community center around every corner and you know things like that i know they were said in tongue in cheek but i think it would help us all a little bit better understand our path if we had the policy in place and had some guidelines help those are the type of things that i think we should address before we get to crunch time so i'd like to see the senate agenda some study said should study session agenda sometime in the near future that we can discuss this and have some polish second property from three sixty that they have requested for you use for supporting their neighborhood organization this is for forty eight college avenue i'll say ditto in terms of the background of information that goes into it from what i said from the prior property this is a residential property however it's a bit different than the other the other was a commercial property on sixteenth this is a residential property on college avenue their intent is to use this property to those in terms that are working with their neighborhood organization or other neighborhood organizations there is the possibility that they may explore a gathering space within this building but there's a process to go through to to get approvals to do that that's not an automatic guarantee that they can do that requires on board of appeals approval and they want to use there's an existing garage not existing garage and they anticipate constructing on a larger two style garage which they'd like to incorporate there to a lending program into that facility that would be we've we've got a little more research to do and need a little more information about that particular use but our home business ordinance appears like it will allow that to occur on this property so it's a different situation this property again they have deposited that minimum the county requires which is eighty six hundred forty two dollars they've deposited that with the city so that is in hand and we will go through a process to recover any additional costs we might occur in this process they will they will cover that  again i this is a residential home i believe should be put up for a bed it's eight thousand dollars there's no reason why a family or someone would not bid on this to renovate this to keep it in a tax space it's different from the sixteenth street one which was a commercial piece which is pretty isolated this is homes on each side it's a ball park or playground right across the street it would be an ideal family home that could be renovated and again i believe that it should be put up for bed and i think that doing that is an incorrect process others right i'm kind of the weigh in on this although i'm not entirely i don't see the appeal of the renovation side of it it's one of these properties  that we discuss every once in a while that it could be removed and the property then subdivided then the neighbors giving the neighborhood or the homes on either side that's an opportunity for growth g the opportunity with this property unfortunately but i wonder if it would be prudent to ask brian to come up one of the well the primary intention of this housing is to use to house in turn so i three sixty incorporates into their programming for the neighborhood and i'm just wondering are brian would be willing to come to the podium and explain what the function of the internes are within the neighborhood and how they see them as being in trouble to what three sixty doesn't enable is would that be prudent or acceptable the the chair acquiescence or allows or whatever the official  just for the record identify yourself i'm more nice seventy four east sixteenth street thank you this particular property is actually quite unique because there are a number of really invested families and or board members who live fairly close to this property and currently some of the interns that the urban farm that grew up a farm that came out of three sixty  the director of that is having his third child and housing intern in his basement and so for for a couple years we have had some growing programs that have been able to incorporate in terms of we're talking post college interns who have a lot of assets to offer to our neighborhood to our city and are in a period of time where they're discerning their life transition and so they're not free labor they are young adults who are moving from one place to the next and may locate within our community may find city jobs or with other non profits and so for those interns to have an opportunity to interact with the families in our neighborhood they can become the homeowners that we really want to see remain in the neighborhood so different than the property on college avenue this is a way for the interns to actually be embedded in the neighborhood and to become part of the fabric of the neighborhood and as we develop in design or intern program some will be deployed in the farm some people working in construction projects that we do in the city it's going to be a very intentional program that engages them in a number of different events and community interactions so so we see it as an essential really good thing for them to be part of a residential neighborhood and in the second part of this property for years there's a community of friends and neighbors have lent ladders and wheelbarrows and different equipment most of us are storing them piles in our garages i have four kids i don't have extra space really jobs those things and we dreamed and thought about well if we could find a collective collaborative space that we could steward some of these items together we could share them and that would be ideal and so that's the other value that we see it's actually quite a large shed and if that grows we could construct it to stop the raj to do that and you know very practically one of the things that we've done a few times as we've interacted to see the staff about we violations and that sort of thing our organization said well let us in on that loop let us in when somebody has got in their second letter and let us know we can meet them maybe we know them maybe their lawn more broken maybe their spouses in the hospital and so we've come in a few times after danielle or trish is called us to help clean up trash or to gather some neighbors to mow the grass and so we could store equipment to do those sorts of things in the scratch so that's kind of our vision  can't get in it the county i was has the keys so i would imagine three or four i don't know how many bedrooms so what are our capacity for interns is growing and i think it's a great thing just had a meeting with a man from a local church who wants to partner with us and he said one of the young men that he's working with played basketball the evening before with five guys all of whom were college graduates living with their parents not sure what they were doing next so there's a there's a massive amount of young adult capital that is i think we design excellent programs to embed them in our community and to deploy them in areas of service i think it's a great opportunity you know questions for brian as long as he's up here phil you know if i could just add to that response ti there are two things that determine capacity one is there's a maximum of six unrelated individuals that can live in a house but it's also dependent on square footage so they may not have enough square footage in that house that will get them up to that six so it could conceivably be less agreed to come out because he explained much better than i could have that i think the qualitative difference between just offering this property up as a residence for anyone in for in the vision that they have i know that there was a home corps volunteer working through three sixty in this neighborhood the last couple of years his presence and the things that he was able to do in the neighborhood was really huge and he was able to make connections it was that's the same sort of and probably a broadened it kind of effect that our neighborhood lay as a city neighborhood liaison person accomplished and we're kind of lamenting the loss of  position where there's an opportunity to reproduce that in multiple in just in this neighborhood and this could serve as a model for the whole city so the reason i was trying to come up was to so that he could explain you know kind of the qualitative difference that we're looking at here rather than just being you know another property for i mean we certainly would love to have someone living there but it was a little cooler using that word a lot tonight but who edged to this opportunity i guess for this neighborhood so thank you other comments nancy i'm sure that their presence in the house will improve the value of the property that they will do what needs to be fixed and maybe make a two star graduate there was only a shadow so it will be a more marketable property if they leave and i also believe that the value of the human potential in that area will go up and people will just find a higher level of living and if we can use kids that are recently graduated in and discerning their next path their career and what better way for them to figure out what they're going to do with their lives then learning to invest in the lives of people there's no better vision that we could give  future children of this area then to give back to those around them so i the value of what they're doing is immeasurable and the mount of taxes per year just doesn't seem as important to me at this juncture so i'm sure we can revisit this in five years and and i think i don't know i really think i would feel bad if i didn't go with us and i just hate and that's see this on a roll and i know they really creative about what they're doing they're approaching the problems let's think about it let's figure out who's available whatever resources how can we do things in a different way and the synergy of that is awesome and i hope to read articles about it on national magazines some day and there's a lot of people trying to get started in it's a very very difficult thing and i think what mike said is we need a policy on this because we can't just thirty giving away every foreclosed home the eventual property owner has put money actually deposited with the city treasurer and it is in the bank accounts of the city so there would be a revenue cost neutral for the community if you go forward thank anyone else well i must say that initially i was less than hammered by this particular proposal then what i was the sixteenth street proposal for reasons that have been articulated and i think well given the kind of commercial nature of the sixteenth street runs this one being right in the heart of a neighborhood but brian i must say when i heard a bit more directly from you a few minutes ago about what you were planning and how this fits into the overall programatic vision three sixty and when i think about the good work that your organization has done and continues to do in the way that you've really partnered in many ways not just with the community but with also also working with various city departments you mentioned lawn mowing and trash pickup and i know that you know your organization has been a go to spot in your neighborhood for those kinds of issues so that you know city staff it's working with people instead of the only you know it's only tool that city government typically has is kind of the punitive type of tool and you know we get the same result working from a neighborhood perspective with with the three sixty and you know i frankly think of you know your leadership  so based on what you've talked about and knowing your organization and based upon the degree of confidence and trust i have in three sixty i'm willing to go with this i do understand and appreciate w comments and warnings and i think that for me in this particular instance it's based on the reputation and the track record that three sixty has in this neighborhood that i am comfortable going forward with this kind of proposal in this instance so you know you've convinced me on this one and we if the vote goes in a certain way you know we look forward to your continued good work here and thank you for your efforts in our city  very pressing item is going to require a lot of discussion are changing our july meeting schedule mr city attorney very brief introduction if you're just ok thank you made action members of the city council i think the reason i did not you take action tonight on the recommendation your next regular meeting would be wednesday july eleventh and that is the long and short of this agenda no folks ryan cotton has not gone to law school communications thank you mr mcveigh thank you i think since the item then sixteen communications from the mayor we would say tonight only a few things one is of course as always you know how to get ahold of us i hope if you don't it will be on the screen shortly city of holland dot com the web page for this city is chock full of information as well as all of our contact information we try to put as much as possible on that website so that you don't have to come down to city hall you don't have to wait for business hours to call people and you can hopefully find what you need on the website and of course be can't then you can contact us or contact folks at city hall and all members of council have their e mail addresses and telephone numbers there so we want to hear from you and we appreciate hearing from you we had an interesting and fun day yesterday with one of our two sort of finalists for the next four years of being president mitt romney in town so mr president obama if you were watching tonight you know the gauntlet has been throw bass and you know get it cool enjoy your neighbors enjoy the summertime here in holland that's all i've got a medication neighbors for me looking on your but you know your neighbors as well yes good point good point communications from councils and i anyone expiring in june of two thousand and fifteen and i bring that in the form of a motion can i ask a question i don't think his application was in your packet if i recall correctly correct  his name but not not the actual application which usually shows up and had so if counsel is more comfortable we can certainly get it in the next packet if councils ready to act and yes we can certainly do that as well but  just wanted to i know we've had some discussion about having more knowledge about who it is what we are appointing and wanted to note that i think it was my error in not seeing that it was in the packet so if you would prefer to see the application you can certainly take action next