so yes there is ample reason to believe moreover well what why why would your client be a den of fide as a gang member and once he participates after he goes back in gang activities he has tattoos from being here hernandez and the government has stated that mr hernandez is statement as to having a short listed and having been detained three times by the police including being held in prison for five months the government stated and it's greece that this is credible which means it must be taken as true so we know it's happened to one person what are the problem here is you've got to demonstrate more likely than not more than fifty percent and there  are things that would give me pause if i were being sent back in those circumstances and i understand what your client may not be happy about it but what is there that demonstrates more likely than not these terrible things are going to happen to him there it so they have an interest in knowing who is going to these type to clinics to have their tattoos removed there's also evidence that it takes a period of time to have one's head to move as acknowledged in cold versus hold so he would have the talk to his uncle where he was paraded through the streets with his shirt off so that people could see the tattoo and given the police officers regular practice of lifting shirts which is t examples of that for example the word indicated as did the immigration judge that the salvadoran government prosecutes and convicts police officers for excessive use of force the report doesn't state that anywhere there is no reference to prosecution or conviction of police officers for excessive use of force the board like the i j a before it fitted the police received training in constitutional law again citing the state department got this from the i j a and did not necessarily review the i g opinion for their error because it makes exactly the same mistakes and that is another indicator that the board did not actually carefully review the record evidence the fact that repeated stakes and that it never once uttered the terms death squads or social cleansing throughout the opinion and never once referred to the atrocious prison record that petitioner would go to prison jorge his uncle did not necessarily go to prison jorge lived outside of prison first for several years safely working with in a report which was published in two thousand and seven written by students at harvard and it threw out the record wherever it said it's an allegation there's no there's no there's no fact  made is that torture is an extreme concept for an act to constitute torture it must be an act causing severe physical or mental pain or suffering it must be intentionally inflicted inflicted for perscribe purposes by or at portees with gang tattoos is that what we should be looking at the evidence against you there is this is not a social group argument you know this is not we're not looking in groups when the where we are in the sense that he's saying that if you sent back there that it's more likely than nothing of the torture because he's a deportee in other words people like they've been walking around a salvador right and therefore that alone is substantial evidence to overturn that determination well i believe the one that i remember vividly is death squads and she says th board once and then went back to the immigration judge and there was another hearing on torture convention it was more evidence that immigration it's look at all that evidence came back to the board for a second time the fact that th there are several points i'd like to make and i will never to keep these as organized as possible with reference to jorge the government repeatedly says that this wasn't for his fate i believe the government even said he didn't go to prison where he spent fourteen months in prison the government states this in its brief the government says government concedes that he was tortured by the police those are the government's words they say that in  jorge did go to prison now there was a period of a few years before he went to prison but there isn't time frame on torture you don't have to be tortured within your first he has where he grew up in el salvador according to the credible testimony jonathan didn't johnson grew up in the united states he came here at the egypt night he's not el salvador and in nature he would be noticed as not fitting and he appears in numerous news article reports and when we were first allegations of death squads according to the harvard report established human rights institutions have documented the involvement happened to him that mr madrigals explanation should be credited when international and domestic human rights organizations and our own government and the congressional research service and multiple other wor twenty pages long and well over seventy five percent of it refers to things that have absolutely nothing to do with john and whereas these other reports that i've referenced are about gangs and the chain and gang members but by the police course credible reports in the absence of alternative explanations i believe have to be given weight just as they were imaginable just as his explanation was credited because there is no alternative explanation for the soaring home inside rates that these groups refer to and if i may on the u s agency for international development is also part of our government and they specifically referenced el salvador's desk wide problem commenting on institutional extrajudicial social cleansing that squads are groups that engage in social cleansing with the goal of extreme mating suspected gang members so these groups appear throughout the record