us if he was here which i don't your representatives for the when you have quarter visioning study hey so we're going to really excited part we did all the visioning in goals and whatnot and now all of our fancy engineers that we hired have come up with some alternatives we're just starting to mull through them and look at them and give them a first pass be back and we're going to have public meetings for you all to in participate and give your voice to that but we also want your input now because this is going to be like the really important time when you can change what these alternatives look like and we've got some good feedback from the local businesses which is awesome but we're here to represent residents and we haven't heard a lot from you guys so if you have any ideas or you want to know a little bit more about what these alternatives all are please come to come from the committee jacob and i will have alternatives here well table and show alternatives please come with comments for that so we can share your comments and this is really important because as you might have guessed you know a street is only so w so what are we going to put in it as a going to travel ins is going to be parking is going to be bike lanes it's going to be trees in greenbelt we have to make some choices and the north section of the street i think is probably going to be the toughest place to make those choices so please come in let us know what you think thank thank you very much we have of the other that's a wonderful community volunteers without them the city would not function so patrick doesn't have the glasses on who can't read the agenda that he's supposed to read so so just a reminder that if you ever can't make the meeting these meetings are now live streamed on you tube and the link is here if you  is good or not good good ok we are also have video videoing them over there we were also asked by an audience member who i have forgotten and they can or cannot identify themsel if they want to to remind the steering committee members as well as audience and press and presenters to give their name before they say anything because you don't know know know who we are and you don't know naturally who the presenters are so  i will introduce the steering committee members who are here all of a look at them so my name is amanda hannaford i'm in board three so i'm in ward three steering committee member and we have i am because i am in ward three as well let anybody see you so i think is that everybody is here so everybody else just feel free to enter please introduce yourself when you ask a question or an presenters please introduce yourself to the other yes so i think that's a about it oh and i has an announcement for those of you who were here last month we came up with the idea of hosting attendance rights forum because of that really productive conversation that we had here so that is on the books there's a facebook event for it there are posters though i have none of them with me today so just remember this in your mind it is feb twenty third at ten thirty am ten thirty to twelve thirty and it's here in this building so you already know where it is  building so this is just an announcement we have sample town meeting day ballots here with us tonight i believe so you can see what they're going to look like and then you can also find them on line i'm not going to read the u r l out loud oh wow it's behind here these are the sample ballots right here i recognize some of those names and then the link also for you to find this on your own isn't the agenda hi everyone so there's no state representative update so i asked if i could just have a minute during the public forum to check in with people represented to brian cina i have a very special announcement to make it's i'd like to let you know i'm valentine's day who my secret crush is i'm in love with the old northland and it's ok we're in a platonic polyamorous relationship so you can be too so seriously now that i've got your attention i want to let you all know about an event tomorrow while i look on my i devise i'm just curious is anyone feeling frustrated way the way that democracy is working in your city well tomorrow night we're going to have a little of bent over it t ninety four north when you ski and from seven thirty until eight there's going to be food by the people's kitchen and music by myself i don't know if you know that i'm a d j and d j infinit and then at eight o'clock people are going to make campaign lawn signs and then there's going to be two presentations about how to be more involved in to direct democracy so if you're interested in your freedom aren't i seven thirty please join us at two ninety four north when you ski  a community event to just gather and talk you know sort of commiserate and be constructive with our feelings and try to find ways to direct our energy so people feel empowered again and then the last thing i would just say is if anyone does have any questions about anything going on in the legislature and there is a law i'm going to have a cigarette you can come out and talk with me for ten minutes or just grab me at some point but i don't want to miss the interesting debates so i would just ask during that whole let me eat my popcorn so thank you right any other announcements while impressive so we're going to move right along to the inspector of elections introductions quick statements i believe that is next on the agenda as i don't have any classes i can't tell but yeah i think so so those who would like to inspect elections who are running make your way and the word clerk which is equally as important yes i went because i figured out last night i have been a ward clerk for twenty three years and i like to organize the polling place so that democracy can happen as smoothly as possible to empower people who come in looking lost to be able to vote and that's what i like to do so i keep doing am sarah jelen i have been doing the elections for eleven years now and i've been the word clerk for the past two and enjoy doing this i'm running unopposed this time so a man asked me to talk briefly about what we do so we start six weeks before the inspections getting our schedule ready and hopefully we have enough people we spend twelve hours running around like crazy while the polls are open and then we spend probably another five hours afterwards getting all of our counting and reporting done it's a lot of work and it's really fun and i enjoy doing it with the help of our inspectors here that along with the work clerks keep everything moving smoothly as possible and one of those people running for clerk inspect everyone my name is julia d p s sure i'm running for inspector of election for ward three the three year term i've been working toward three polls since about two thousand and eight and then for the last two elections i've been i was appointed to be an inspector of election because the post was vacant and i enjoy doing it and thanks for your support and see you at the polls in march i'm barbie alsop i have not worked at the polls yet but i am running for inspector of elections and i have the endorsement of the progressive party i have been volunteering for years for candidates around here figured it was finally time to put my feet where they belong to make sure elections are fair and all votes are fully counted i will be working the polls as an election worker in march and preparation i hope for three years as your new inspector of elections and i don't think there's any reason for you to pick either giulio or me so just go for whoever you by everyone i'm charlie g charlie janani and i'm also working for inspector of election and the only thing i really wanted to say is that people in the older thin are absolutely blessed because you've got very stable elections elections officials here and with people have worked for years and years like julia and sarah but also kid andrew sitting over here so we've had a great team for a long time and everyone is always encouraged to actually join us so if you ha any interest at all in learning how the polls operate please don't hesitate whatever ward you live in just contact the the ward clerk and we'll put you on the schedule you can learn how to how to do everything it's very complicated but it it's mostly fun you meet a lot of other people and as the day goes by you it just gets more and more busy and everyone gets involved and it's wonderful so if anyone has any interest at all in serving as a ward official there's always room and we train everyone so i hope to see you all at the polls and thank  i hope she's ok neat that was quick wonderful great candidates i still not quite sure what inspector election does but i should look that up i believe are going to move right on to the next agenda item mayor you going to do first i see a bunch of names on that lists ok and he's going to give us a rundown on some charter changes hopefully we have some questions when to try to keep it quick for the questions we have alone session tonight but if you ask a question again please just give your name if you're comfortable with that and what word you're in thank you patrick it's great to be back with you thank you thank you to all the volunteers for another spectacular meal so i'm not one hundred percent sure exactly how we're going to do this but i did just talk to amanda and before we get about item number three i did just want to touch on ballot i don't member too quickly because it's an important one as well about item number two is about maintaining city services for just the second time in eight years in order to maintain city services that the current levels we need a small increase to the property tax levy so the city is requesting with i think tend to vote of the city council we've put on a request for one half percent increase in the municipal property tax it amounts to about forty dollars a year for the average burlington homeowner and even at that if that increase were go through we're proud i think collectively that city council and the administration that if you kind of look over the last three years at the budgets that i've been responsible for we will still be below the rate of inflation over that time if this rate goes through three firefighters last year we've dramatically expanded the program in t v programming at the library we've created a whole new early learning initiative to give scholarships to  income kids ages zero to three and give expand access to high quality child care those were those the opportunity apply for the scholarships is going to roll out just in march so in quite a bit more so we're proud that we've been able to do all that through efficiencies and smart decisions and some advances in some areas and keep the rate of property tax wrote for services below the rate of inflation we hope you'll be voting yes on that question number three to dive in  know other people want to take some questions on that are number two any questions on number two wow you go good job great ok so about question number three is things but overarching the it is about implementing permit reform this is something that has been a high priority of the city council and the administration for years there was i think a unanimous city council vote three or four years ago that said we want to do this is a complicated system and many many of our residents don't get the results out of it that they hope to or get them in a timely timely manner and we think fundamentally the reason for this is not because we have bad employees we have we have strong very committed employees that work on this area and tried their best but the system itself is flied and we have three different departments that are responsible for different elements of our permitting system and you know what i'm talking about with perming is when you get when you want to put a porch on the back of your home or make some kind of other improvement to your home or small business you have to go through three different departments now to secure  core permits to do that there you have to go through the planning and zoning office through the building inspection services that d p w and through code enforcement and the core way we are trying to improve that is to first of all create a one unified permitting and inspections department a single point of accountability and all of those per now we'll be in one place there will be a permit center down on pine street and stead of having to go to multiple different locations without the city to secure a permit we're very hopeful that once we get this done a number of other improvements will flow from that there is a lot of support on the city council for this effort as i think you're going to hear from our counselors in a moment there was eleven to one vote  and we think this is going to be a major advancement for the city there are a couple other elements and i think there's a little controversy that i've heard about that that part of the change i have heard some questions about another element of it which is which flows from this change and let me just spend a minute more before heading over the make on this is we have when you if if you think as i just described we are taking the zoning element of the planning and zoning department and we're taking it out of that department and putting it in this new permanent department that leaves a smaller planning department in its wake if you will there there is a planning department that will be reduced to three people and it has raised some questions about what's the best way to organize and structure that after some back and forth the city council the plain department is going to remain its own department but here is a widespread sense that we can better coordinate the efforts of the planning department we can make the planning efforts more relevant to and successful with implementation and better coordinated with the rest of the city's efforts if the planning department becomes like every other  city department in the city and ultimately accountable to the mayor and the city council for their work right now the planning director is appointed by the planning commission and we think  not the right long term you want your elected officials who are elected in part for their vision of the future and our are respond sort of to the public you want that reflected in choices about who the planning department should be so that's that that's the core of why we've gone in the struction and why i turned over to cancer is no doubt and pine to expand on this if that's right is that we were trying to do it patrick and i want to come back to the discuss that with the mayor again ok i've been very involved with permit reform there were a couple resolutions from the council that was we're laying out the kit you know saying we we want to do this and let's go get create this one stop shop and it took a ton of work and i think the mayor did nice job describing it when i want to say is kudos to the department heads who actually gave us territory gave up authority and water to create a system that's going to work better for the people of bronx and that usually doesn't happen in organizations people try to grow their demands so there was great cooperation among the department has once they heard that you know we need to stop giving people i unintentionally kind of the go around in terms of running up and down pine street and sometimes getting different questions different answers the same question  i think this will lead to it being easier for people to make basic improvements to their homes and also more affordable in terms of a price i would just say the only thing to add is that one of the outcomes we hope is that there will be a closer review of additional ways to make it easier for parole and tony is to to make improvements to their properties through this process not today but as we get into this hope for the bia a willingness to engage around the issue of  e really to have a full permuting on putting up a fence to replace the fence that was separating your property from your neighbor's right now you need to get permits for that and that is a pretty cumbersome process do you really need to have an architect develop plans within your home to modify a room for for changing needs of your family or for excessive realty modifications it's a very involved process to the point where there are contractors who when you ask them to come work on your house and they say where you live and you tell them they say no thank you i actually don't pull permits in burlington so that's a that's not just their reputation that's not just a rumor that really does happen and we we don't we don't serve the taxpayers or burlington the residents or burlington well when that's the case we ought not to make it harder for people to change their properties to meet the evolving needs of them and their families that this is what i want to say and we're open to questions on this one because that's really why we're here i think as well patrick i am so excited about the main part of this permit reform that makes it easier and consolidates but i have to say that i'm really concerned that it's an appointed position and i'm not sure why it does it it's an appointed  position where it has been in the past the commission has recommended somebody for these for the department of public works but the commission was the i guess the person that put the name of that chair forward and i'm i'd like to know more about why  think that it should be you that appoints that now and why that changes i just frankly see that that's like ripe for corruption sure let me let me try to answer one thing in two i think i just want to clarify proud be selected by the merit like i understand in the past that has been like a person has been chosen by not just the mayor but by i know it's a new position but the equivalent of that was put forward by commissioners and not by the make sure so this is the big change really is that out of all the departments there's only one where the department head is not chosen by the mayor of all the commission seven citizens choose and supervised in the planning director reports to those seven commissioners that playing director doesn't report to the mayor at all so we're back in time bernie sanders said we have these little fiefdoms we're department head get to control the departments yet the citizens hold me accountable for those departments and i have no real authority to the point where the planning director actually said as long as that guy's america's office i'm going to do crossword puzzles for the next two years so that he doesn't get any credit for anything good happening so that was the kind of situation where department were literally autonomous fiefdoms so in the early two thousand peter preval and the city council proposed in the voters supported moving to a place where the chief elected officials the mare is accountable to the citizens and gets to actually choose the department heads hopefully through a more inclusive process but that was the the move to move all the parties in that direction with the exception of that one department planning so this is actually finishing that process so that the mayor was accountable to the citizens of burlington is actually in charge of all departments so i believe at that time though it was chosen that that it was decided that that position should not be chosen by the mayor because of the potential for corruption i don't know but i'd say corruption really i don't think that was the topic but well i'll take the word corruption out but i'll say that as at that time it's my understanding that this that was decided that we'd rather have this position because it's such a powerful position in the in the sort of creation of the city to be not appointed by the mare so this is a big diversion from a big change from that decision a long time ago if there was i think the most critical step for development of you though is the development of your board which are seven citizens and they issue permits so the planning director doesn't actually make decisions on permit applications that's done by citizens so the actual regulatory body that judicial body is the planning is the development of you bore so i would say it's i think there was a feeling that the department head in that department should be accountable to the mayor because the mayor be able to exercise undue influence over those decisions i don't know if anyone's here is on the d or b but it's really an independent the is really an independent body but your question was also it's the merits let's let him address  well i'm glad you made the last point there because i think there's some confusion about that they did that the way in which we have tried to ensure that i think what you're getting at the heart andrea is that we don't want permits to be issued as on kind of political grounds that we don't want that issuing a permit ng to be political that's a regulatory function and i think properly there are some discomfort about the idea of elected officials being able to directly control that that separation has been is maintained by this charter change because of what brian is saying the decision on permits is made by the development review board with the advice of the divine design advisory board and the conservation commission and nothing is changing about the structure of those structures similarly the planning commission has a statutory role in essentially advising the city council y authority of that independent appointed body is also being preserved by this so the that's how mindful of the concern i think you're raising about how directly we want to elected officials to be have their hands on the permeating regulatory function there remains this important separation and it is these these separate bodies that retain that power that authority thank you that makes a lot of sense and become an exception mike that the school board commission the school board i want to make sure that whoever is in that position is living in burlington and exposing themselves to their own changes especially within the charter the residency requirement will remain as it is now which is a requirement that the that certain department heads including this new one see residents of the charter also says however that the council retains the right to grant hardship exemptions and the council has taken that as a something they need to grapple with and define and that definition has continued to evolve it's written down there are very few exceptions that we that we allow people not to live in the city broke in but there are a few and it we think you know i've supported the way the councils interpret this policy and i think it's important that the city retain some flexibility in certain situations to balance that desire to have the person live right here with other things like their kids where their kids in school at the time they're hired do they have a purchase do they own a home somewhere near burlington and would it be very challenging for them for what amounts to a one year appointment to quickly uproot themselves and move in is do we want to actually require that given there are certain conditions it is the fact like brian said that you need a permit for so many different things that are that don't have any relation to public safety and so is it possible to make those changes that to to basically reduce the number of things that require a permit without making the changes that question was three or four you know basically we could vote no on this question but still have what police i really want yes that's correct that's correct because those are you know ordinances which are under you know which are adopted by the council and so you could you could still kind of deregulate and lighten up the permitt require minutes without creating the consolidated system i still think it would be the whole process will be more efficient regardless of you know you're still going to have some permits for bigger things that impact your neighbors and so forth  but they are conceptually separate and but i think it's really important that to understand that in my mind the work is not done after this charter change if it's adopted and approved by montpelier i think we really then need and i would be committed if i go back to really making sure that the ordinance committee goes on and the regulates the permitting process to kind of like enough of the load on people where it's  reasonable i'll make this really really quick because i know we're running out of time something that i this is kind of piggybacking on andrea a little bit something that i haven't heard anybody address is i don't understand why it's not possible for them to be elected positions instead of appointed by the mayor or appointed by a council i think elected an elected position would be more directly come from the people rather than arguing about who should have the power to appoint it why don't we just vote on it we do that for concern about suggesting it be done that way in that i think would do a certain degree undo the progress that culture pine was just talking about where the city moved to make moved to a structure that requires a certain level of coordination and cooperation among city departments i think we struggled when we had a situation where there were these islands that really could do their own thing and didn't have to do what what the you know what  and i think there are some some problems with that and some conflicts with that but it certainly could be done the way you're suggesting i just want to very quickly circle back to ben's because i want to just say strongly theoretically the progress i agree with you that there's lots of policy considerations and improvements that need to be considered and made they have not happened under the current system and even when great effort has been put into that and i think they're on likely to happen in the current system because again this issue that the system is so fractured no one is really responsible for the whole thing and that is the root of i think the perverseness of many elements of our perming system already bill ward who will be the presumptive new department head is talking about creating instead of multiple different permits a unified permit to go build your porch or a new kitchen or whatnot it's that kind of thinking that's going to make the system better and i don't think that will evolve without issue twenty years ago and there was concern about that and it was concern about undue influence of the city over what was meant to be an independent planning department another question where does the fire marshal fit into this fire marshal will remain part of the fire department and so there will continue to be engaged minutes from some city officials outside this corps permuting inspections department but there will be just a march will be brought under this one i'm just a partial consolidation th is in the spirit of taking nothing for granted you know from you know into perpetuity my question would be you know your mention of the be you know development review board with what would it take for that to be disbanded you know it would the director have any sort of influence over that possibly happening in the future i don't i don't know how ingrained that is you know so that makes  sense ok the review of projects by developer review board is governed by state statute so there's no one at the local level that can mess around with that are new zoning laws there's great authority for the planning director to issue permits without going to design review board it's already happened in a very bad way but that's not true everything does not go through the d r be  occlusion are talking about the form based code does all kinds of things that give great power just to the administrative authority in the planning department and they've already used that authority to our detriment the question was actually what can we do to disband the d a change in the process around code i'm sorry form base code which went through a lengthy process and it applies to a certain area of the city so maybe the america talk a little bit about it but i think we're running out of time i  just a sentence on it i mean everything steve just suggested there all authority that was given in an attempt to make some efforts move more efficiently and quickly quickly or to agree that any controversy about those decisions they are can be are appealable to the development review board the development view board retains ultimate authority and so i think name is jean bergman and i have lived in war two for a really long time with my wife wendy cool raised our two kids and i am the former senior assistant city attorney for the city of burlington after twenty years this june i retired and i would have liked to have stayed pretty retired except there is a proposal on the ballot number four that has forced me to to come out in opposition and i'm very happy i spoke a little bit at the last in p but i'm very happy to be joined by a group of  saying that already the proponents of put some pretty fancy a campaign literature they've they've produced it i don't know how it's been repealed been been distribute distributed but one of the things that they say he's carried it here so it's about to be distributed but it says here on number four which they are supporting the city will retain all current authorities the fact of the matter is that's just not true what we're doing with this proposal is turning the governments of the church street marketplace into a private entity that will control the downtown improvement district i want to say that the other thing just to sort of like this preface is that you know campaigns are tough because you've got to do soundbites the short form and i don't envy the attorneys who were drafted it my former boss but this is a very complicated  sixteen peaches right and you boil it down to it you can see it on the sample ballot to really short but it does not do justice to the injustice that the citizens of burlington are going to be faced with if we adopt this proposal they talk about a stablish a nonprofit entity to manage but they don't talk about the powers they just say describe the powers they they they don't make it clear it says here that provide a sunset provision that will automatically end the d i d after the ten years if not renewed but the fact of the matter is if the d id is not removed under this proposal the church st marketplace and its commission its public commission will be done in fact when you approve of the id if you approve it church that public entity that controls the church the marketplace will go away and it will be governed by a private entity so i've got unfortunately because i'm a lawyer i got to go through all for in words to to figure this out and i did and with it we made some changes as a result of my my comments but i've got a number of major problems with this that is joined by this committee the council at the behest of a faction of downtown businesses not all proposes to give away the democratic control over the downtown tourist district it is in our opinion an democratic power grab and i would just have to say that i wanted to understand how this thing came about so i put in the public work records request last week to find out how the advisory committee operated when it met the public notices and the minutes of the meeting because i keep hearing well this is just what the process was and it turns out that they have declared that that downtown improvement district advisory committee which was created by the city council and has a city councillor and a church marketplace representative is supposedly a not a private entity and is not open to public scrutiny that's outrageous and it indicative i think of what is is down the pike for us but the proposal the control over the management of the district to a private entity and regardless of how they're appointed and you can read in bloody detail the the initial appointment of these people veliz board fiduciary duty to that private entity not to you not to me not to any voters here even though the entire purpose of this district is public and is paid for with public tax dollars and don't let them say that well this is really a fee for private owners because you know damn well that that's going to be passed on every renter every business occupant and this is the history of the ids throughout the country the proposal privatized his control over the district size despite the fact current that deckard charter currently gives that power to the city council to people who are responsible and accountable to us the proposal gives power to this private entity to delegate the proposal gives the council the power to delegate all of its powers which would meet writing laws which would be making things legal or illegal but over the district to the entity that's insanity i let me let me let me give my bullet points unfortunately time for i understand that i get i know i got this i know there's a rebuttal in stuff i got like five pages let me just give you my bullet points that may be which which are based on be having to go in bloody detail line by line so if this is a democratic the kippah way is unnecessary they did not have to do this they did this at the behest of a faction of business people and they did not even they rushed this i came here last last month and said this was rushed they'd share this through the council thank you to councillor no del who was one of the four who opposed this i wish that we had six because then we would have seven i believe and others do that the that the passage will lead to and displacement of people and there is nothing in the in the provisions that allow the city to use any of the monies that they're going to raise to combat that so here we give this entity all this money that then causes all of these rent increases and we as taxpayers if we want to mitigate that are going to have to  pay i can you know i wish i was going to be retired because i read rather not be doing this the thing is anti union and anti worker you know that they get a privatized good pay in city jobs and they're going to allow under this proposal the right of the city to contract with the entity to perform public services in public buildings why not have this private entity take over maintenance of city hall park why not have a take over maintenance of the building or city hall these shouldn't be in there but the fact of the matter is they are in there and the only way to stop them and not by the blank check that they want you which is trust us it won't happen one more thing what i want to know i'm sorry because you've got to get you've got to get the full flavor of this otherwise this is just a small job and the last thing is that we believe that this is going to buy in fact in fort worth texas where they have one of these things there is a prohibition on folks being able to bring their own food into the plaza right because and they say the merchants nearby would appreciate your business gina we appreciate your trust me and i don't want to be rude to diminish your wonderful detailed report but the mayor i'm sure wants go point by point and keep us jean and i think he's raise some points that should be debated and aired and i appreciate the form to do it that i have to say i think almost nothing that he just told you is really fair or accurate and i will go through some of them but i think the basic technique you just heard there y there is a improvement district somewhere in the country that has turned fort worth into disneyland and thus that's what's going to happen here in burlington and i think that is up a farfetched and really misleading and kind of scaremongering way to debate this and the fundamental thing that i would put in front of you is goes back to the very first statement and what is on this card which is there is this suggestion that this is the privatization of the downtown but if you listen carefully to  he couldn't name a single public asset or a single city authority that is actually being divested to this entity it is true that the council is given ability to make decisions in the future a new structure that would expand the active management of church street the church the marketplace which is serve the city very well for thirty years and expand that active management to the entire downtown this is what your original founders of the  marketplace wanted at the beginning and are still around we can ask him bill trucks pat robinson came out the told the city council this and this is in some ways fulfilling the instinct of the job that was laid out at the beginning and i think it's going to be a very healthy thing for the future the downtown which is what this is about we face new threats in our downtown it is a wonderful place we all love it i think we're fooling ourselves if we think that it's just going to continue on as it is without continue t change and expand the way we think about it internet poses a fundamental threat to retail and downtown's we have our surrounding communities thank goodness getting their act together building walkable mixed use neighborhoods finally  even out in south burlington the suburban land they're getting their selves together and building these places that in some ways are like church street have the potential to be like burlington's downtown and they are going to take away business and vitality from us if we don't change the tools we have the and i would go back to the fact that anything that this new entity does that you don't like there will be a great ability of future city councils and people to change course correction here and that another inaccuracy is the church the nothing happens the church the marketplace unless the council is satisfied with the management structures they put in place the marketplace will continue on indefinitely until we get to a place that we feel good about this new entity so they're there that the public take a quick twenty seconds one the coalition for a little city last month looked over this agreed that this is rushed incomplete should and therefore should be you should say no and secondly have you talk if you talk and i'm really curious both our local economy and that whole area of burlington work because of regular folks who would out of work in the retail and service industry so i'm just very curious how that big portion of our population the working people were thought of as developing the standards who did or the criteria for dead and just what how the city councillors and the mayor of that in your thinking as you set the priorities and the structures in place like our working people involved in the oversight are they consciously put in there are we creating wage you know the thing wages for people in this area to be able to be part of the other sides of the benefits that just curious so i believe someplace  there is a list of who would be on the board or commission or whatever and it was like nine property owners six business owners one resident owner or something what was the to somebody that was a so and i also think this map shows just so people know what the borders are it i don't know if you can read it it's i guess that's and i don't know if this is updated one when i just found online  adoption of the who the directors are on are on pages four and five of the official copy of the ballot item and so but those are just the original ones mindful of the experience of living in burlington of working in burlington of being a property owner in burlington the idea is to straighten those experiences in the way the treasury market has strengthen the experience of all sorts of activities on the tour she marketplace the essence is try to improve that throughout the downtown so certainly the idea is that this new entity will be responsive to the needs of transferring management of the g i d s from the city council or the city to a nonprofit entity and i second question is how did this come to be on the ballot and versus something like the reconsideration of the park measure and why were those two different and how they got on the ballot great  so the first question if i think people heard the question so why why out what is being transferred here so that today there is something called the marketplace which is in some sense a department of the city the department head is  makes a lot of the century governs in oversees the marketplace and in many ways they don't have statutory power they have a lot of informal authority they weigh in and guide a lot of what happens essentially what is being transferred is that instead of having that advisory board it will be this new nonprofit board that will will over will will will serve that role that's the change that's fundamentally happening here and this new board will have not just the marketplace as it's purview but it will have that whole whole orange area why is it being organized that proposes a nonprofit as opposed to city department a lot of that comes down to that is a really fair question that is the change that's happening here there is a lot of the way in which we are proposing to do it is the way in which more than ninety five percent maybe more than ninety eight percent of these improvement districts around the country and there are hundreds of these and they've generally been deemed by academics and many professional you know many independent assessments to be successful in many many ways some of them certainly have abuses and issues that we have been trying to be mindful of but almost all of them are organized in this way with a nonprofit board this is and i will add just as having been the mayor for the last seven years there is i don't situation where you have this board that is directly responsible for the fees and has a lot of strong opinions and you have the director of the marketplace are accountable to that group and they are also accountable to the mayor and the city council who may not be in the flow of all those decisions and information and  i think it creates a lot of unnecessary tension i think having this new structure where the city is well represented with lots of members participating in these board discussions as your members and i think i think that will work better just a question so this is a five zero one c it is not that has not been determined there was an earlier draft that that that listed that that is the way in which many of these have been structured there were concerns about whether business association to give it to you and i hate to cut you off it seems like there's a lot of nebulous things and we're just about to vote on something that seems like it could be very important as the mayor stated that a lot of nebulous in this so we should probably talk to jeanne and the mayor because i'm sure they'd love to talk and we could all get i'm sorry what can we have a shawl poll and you know we don't want the mayor to feel like everything he does is because if the former first and then we got up we know everybody would probably leave so i'm gene while i'm on the ballot again just in case that seems a little weird i replace somebody special election in august so yes four months later to do this again once again running in to please vote for me anyway thank you and i'm liz curry the board three commissioner our district commissioner so we're going to talk about the budget i saw the spoiler alert earlier they put this up twice giving away our secrets  we've got a budget of sixty five million three hundred seventy eight and there's a lot of numbers up here but basically we're going to let you know that  the important things are school tax increases four point three percent for about a two hundred fifty thousand dollars average value house and  raise your rent because their taxes go up but this is for property owners who have an income if you're under ninety thousand you pay one hundred percent homestead value income base tax if you're between ninety and one hundred twenty thousand and there's kind of a graduated tax we're probably making spam out of this our legislators are probably going oh my god don't let the school commissioners explain the education fund but let's get through let's get through like if you pay your property tax your education property tax based on your income your it will go up like five dollars if you pay your education property tax based on your home for your value it will go up by about sixteen dollars a month so there is that the good news is this budget achieves a lot of goals that we have not been able to achieve over the past five years  since i've been on the board we have added about twenty one educate instructional positions in a lot of different areas including english language learning and some at the high school we're trying to go to a proficiency based learning system so that evaluating students based on their proficiency not just like testing out and go into next grade and just kind of doing the industrial school model thing so we're trying to make that transition this will actually create a position for the first time to help redesign curriculum delivery to go to a proficiency model that is also a state law requirement and this budget gives us the ability to do that so i'll just share those t things and basically what we're talking about essentially is the per pupil amount which is six something six point something percent more than it was last year and one one of the things i looked up uses and they calculate the amount that each district spends on an equalised per pupil basis and we thousand dollars per pick per pupil so it's a different figure ten thousand is the dollar yield that the state has determine and then each school district gets decide how much more or less you know they have to spend at least ten thousand dollars and then everybody else gets decide how much more in addition to that amount per pupil that's a good point that's what we're voting on that's the part and what's exciting is that five years ago when i joined the board we spend about thirteen thousand something on an equalizer per people now we're spending sixteen thousand something we want to respond to if you support the budget which will give us all these instructional positions to help on our academic achievement gap goals and our purpose and per fish and see learning goals and to put it into perspective that's the middle ground for all our so out of the two hundred fifty something school districts where about one hundred thirty seven but that's what we are currently i don't know what everybody else is going to vote for i'm to say so  budget and then you'll see all the budget data a and so we're lower we are lower per people spending per equalize per people in the equalizes key because that's the modifier that is based on the number of e l students and special ed students and students who have spend that here in burlington i mean i know that we have a late probably i or rate of i'll tell you why diverse students which is why i live here but i would love to hear from you about that so the thing about having a strong educational system that offers a lot of opportunities for kids is that it means people want to live here in our community  and you know look to the schools really as the gathering place for families that brings people together and connects families and neighborhoods and you know contributes to a robust healthy community and schools are a place where we can invest in you know healthy families healthy kids and our goal and our challenge is to direct those resources to the kids who don't have access to those opportunities and don't have you know there's an opportunity gap and it's huge and this budget will help to close the opportunity gap for one of the first times you know that i've been on the board in five years since we crashed financially and we're on the rebound thank you we have one more question we're going to wrap it up so i want to start by saying the i'm going to vote yes and support the school board because when the school budget goes down it's not a good thing and it only hurts the kids but i want to express a concern that you may not be able to address today but i think it needs to be on your mind going forward as well as on the city's consciousness which is that it's my understanding that we're about to go through a reassessment which means that our property values are going to be reassessed so all the property in burlington which hasn't been assessed in a long time out on the number technically has increased in value so that means that the percentage of tax everyone's going to be paying on property is going to go out and so someone about the potential impact of the reassessment because i was told that i should prepare for a tax increase even if we have a level funding so so that there's a whole calculation there which ten or twelve years ago the last time is rea d there was a different property tax base the basis on which the taxes were generated now there's new property there's different types of property there's been development so they will see kind of a redistribution i you know i'm sure there's like people here could explain exactly how it works but i think the idea is that the educational property tax which is different than the municipal property tax will there will be a shift so that the school tax stops caring the better the burden or the penalty associated with not reassessing which is more complicated but overall that is a totally separate company tax conversation not to be confused with  school tax conversation i think rather time for the school tax at the next meeting well we'll put you on the agenda thank you guys for being good sports about it we give you fifteen minutes ok we're going to move on to our central district city council conversation but before we do that i want to ask everyone can you all just stand up and take a big deep breath it's almost eight o'clock and i ask that our candidates come up to the stage please start thinking of questions so i'm going to go i'm going to go over the format of our city council forum again this is for central district both words two and  three we're going to start by going going down the line of candidates each candidate will have one minute opening and closing statements and then we're going to open the floor as much as possible for questions i ask you guys please to think of questions if you have an idea try to write it down  to get as concise as possible and you are free to address one of the candidates directly however each candidate will have a chance to respond to that question  t the format is up on the wall behind everybody candidates please feel free to ask qualifying or clarifying questions will allow time for that and i believe oh here we go jim is here with the time cards you'll see the sign for two minutes one minute thirty seconds and fifteen seconds so everybody say how did jim i'll also be mike running back here so if you want to get a mike to ask a question you can signal to me and i will find you and everybody and the last is so just quickly so peace peace please be polite to all the candidates please claps silently so as to not cut into the candidates time to answer the questions keep keep your questions short one minute or less please that said this can be a dialogue if you feel the candidate has not understood your question or answer your question or is pivoting from your question feel free to follow up questions can be directed to a particular candidate all candidates will have an opportunity to answer each question answers can be two to three minutes depending on the complexity of the question required candidates need to keep an eye on the time keeper hey everybody jane know dalam running as an independent and i've been on the council for some time and over time i've come to see my job as really making life better for people that i represent especially the most vulnerable and marginalised people in our community so some things i've done in the last two years i've been very very active with the janet s month family room meets right over there they're theater was was in question after they were split off from the services across the city dumpster days i got money for the dumpster days where people can dispose of their items free of charge on this on the taxpayers bill recycle environmentally and reuse household goods and finally jobs and people i got funding with other counsellors for an updated jobs and people study which is an essential first step for a true people first economic development strategy this is been a lively evening everyone my name is perry freeman thank you all for being here tonight happy valentine's day i here to introduce myself as the progressive candidate for central district city council and you know i'm running because i believe in the values of activity of fairness of really you know believing that everyone deserves a seat at the table and right now we have the reality is we have a rigged economy we're in the midst of a global climate crisis and we have a government that doesn't really represent the needs and the desires of the people and does not address those former issues so as a city councilor i would like to see two climate action to fair wages and you know fair working conditions and to really a fair and transparent and open democracy and so i really appreciate you all being here tonight at this forum we've had already a really lively evening i hope it continues to be lively and yeah i just look forward to hearing how i can ensure that your voices and the voices of all our neighbors can be heard and represented in city hall thank you so much and i was on my way in here and i saw that donald trump was about to the claire a national emergency and i am here to declare i mean it's a poll emergency and i mean that only with a slight amount of gest we have a hole in the ground in the middle of burrowing ten we've sold off borrowing to telecom to the highest bidder we have new americans struggling to feed their families in the old north and and that is not what leadership is about that is not a vision for this city that has made us exceptional and i want to see all of us come together through stronger m p s to build a city that we can all believe in we might not agree on every issue but i think we can all agree on our creed that is when we come together in groups like this we can accomplish anything thank you thank you folks for your opening statements with that we're going to open it up to the floor for mikes when you do get the mike there's a little switch on the side just push it up when you're talking in turn it off afterwards quick question inclusionary zoning i understand is a review of it just wondering your thoughts on what you see this plays into the future of the city  great question i think we certainly have issues in this city and i think what is at the heart of this question to me is how can we build more or how can we provide rather more affordable housing i don't think we are going to build our way out of this problem i don't think there is space it doesn't really matter what we do with the zoning laws we're not going to build our way out of the affordable housing crisis what we've got to look at i think to improve the process and improve the availability of folks that live in this community is to look at ways we can stabilize rent and ways that we can educate tenants about their rights  we can we can build all sorts of new new housing we can change zoning laws we can change rental laws but if we are educating people and the city should play a role in this about their rights as tenants all of that is for not and there's great programs that exist right now there's a there's a legal clinic that i'm involved with often on saturday mornings that offers this but i think the city can take a leadership role in strengthening the availability of housing for folks and i think that's what my priorities would be in terms of how do we look at zoning how do we look at availability how do we look at educating people thank you yes so i think you know inclusionary zoning is you know as dirt is saying it's a great start to figuring out this piece of the puzzle of how we're going to provide affordable housing for for folks living in the city and you know the reality is that those units which it's you know sixty percent am i it's about fifteen to twenty percent of new construction and that's only getting us really so far right when we have those units being at about eight hundred to what it is i think a thousand unit when we look at the requirement for workforce housing it's around more like five hundred dollars a month this is what is affordable so you know i'm very interested in looking at how we can continue to improve upon the inclusionary zoning policy and you know continue to sort of advance that and then beyond that i mean i think my where i've seen you know this is generally i think a question about housing and where i've seen a real  area that we can expand as a renter is just organizing as renters i very interested have talked to a lot of people around the city about like the creation of attendants union and just working towards really how we can be in a place of power as renters to come to the table and negotiate because we do really have what is kind of a you know an out of control rental market that's not affordable it's sixty percent of the city are renters and i think over half of them are rent b so this city's inclusionary zoning law requires developers with projects of more than five units to provide between fifteen and twenty five percent of those units to be affordable in a way that's defined by the law over the last year there's been an inclusionary working group that has been working hard to update the law to make it fit our current conditions in burlington and i chaired this committee and it was a mix committee of private sector nonprofit sector housing developers housing advocates and city staff and myself and we came up with a consensus proposal th got the support of everyone on that that that wide span of points of view around a proposal that i believe is going to start to bring an end to class based residential segregation that we have in the city of brawling and start to open up all of burlington's neighborhoods some of which are exclusively zoned single family housing and that is intrinsically exclusionary and it is time to bring make that change and that is not going to be easy because many people don't like that that live in these neighborhoods but it is time and if i'm go back this is something is going to be a very high priority for me the proposal that went from this group to the city council and is now with the planning commission and was discussed there this week will also i believe pump significant more resources into the housing trust fund which is where we produce deeply affordable permanently affordable housing through the third sector of social housing and that is what is going to i think in the long run  meet the needs of people who are living and really trying to make things work on very limited wages so i heard mr carter say we can't build our way out you can build your way out if you build those social perpetually affordable units we have to do that the other part of it is that if that when you have higher vacancy rates that increases tenants bargaining power with about two minutes each that seems to be about a natural medium next question please well we'll start with perry on this one ok julie they kind of took the question that i had so i guess i'll switch it up a little bit i'm curious to know what each of you plan to do to address climate change and not just sort of surface level greenwash stuff that's you know not really getting us of the goals we need to get to but what do you actually want to do on the local level about climate change that's not really being addressed state or even the national level yeah absolutely thank you julie for that question so i think in terms of climate action you know into so yeah to the point to the point of greenwashing i think in terms of transit something that to me feels like is looking at the intersection of how class and environmental issues are dealt with is really talking about how we can potentially move towards a subsidized transit system that's expansive and that also provides routes regular routes so that working people can actively use it to get to work so i think that's a big point within that and you know in terms of whether izing our buildings they think you know this is a huge aspect in terms of becoming more efficient and  that's something that we can engage with in terms of property owners and incentivizing or pushing them to do that as well and then beyond that the mcneil plan i mean this is functioning at twenty four percent efficiency i think that you know  having sustainability in our heating sector so yeah i'm not i mean i'd be curious you know what if any of those things pacific i mean to the to the greenwashing a fact i think really being sensitive to class  and looking at the intersection of class and if i want action is is where we see kind of pushing back and dismantling that aspect of green washing actually going to jane next great question ok so it's two minutes the i think number one we need to reduce our dependence on single occupancy vehicles that represents obviously a lot of consumption of fossil fuels and is also degrading our air quality i agree that improve mass transit is essential so that we need more frequent buses so that people more people will use the bus instead of driving their car that will build demand for mass transit and lead to more affordable mass transit we need to get on to that virtuous cycle and that may require some kind of initial subsidy but we should be realistic because green mountain transit this year has a an almost one million dollar deficit and its operating budget so there's some fundamental issues there around our around funding i've been a big supporter of district energy i've pushed the mayor and burlington electric about using the downtown project to add vance district energy and in fact you need large users in order to make district energy work and the downtown project could potentially be such an a major user that could make district energy work and that's very exciting finally energy efficiency in my second kind of years on the city council i was on the ordinance committee and shared it when we passed the time of sale energy efficiency ordinance that requires  apartment buildings to change ownership they're required to bring the building up to edit high energy efficiency standard it may be time to go back and revisit that standard made this done it should be higher but these are all issues that i've worked with so my summary would be been there done that if i'm reelected will keep on doing  it great great question i really haven't heard much about this i heard some some good ideas and i would say i agree with pretty much everything that was said what i would add though and i think we have a unique opportunity if you look at the data  energy efficiency in terms of bang for our buck we have limited resources as a city has in this as a state to invest in rather than investing in more robust as perhaps or more energy efficient vehicles which are all good things i think you'll get a much better return on investment in terms of real impacts on on emissions if we look at strengthening our weather a zation programs above and beyond what counselor in odell is talking about and i think at the city  level we could do a much better job educating again tenants about what's out there what's available what their rights are and so i think there's a real intersection there between economic justice and environmental justice i've rented in this in this community for a long time in many different places and i've had as a general rule pretty solid landlords but i had lots of leaky windows lots of leaky doors and we need to figure out a plug those gaps i think if we do that we're going to solve  economic justice and an environmental justice issue in one of fact of an efficient swoop i live in ward one so i'm thanking you for allowing me to even ask a question to this to gust body i know i've always had offices and clinics and so forth in this area i do a free legal clinic every saturday morning from ten to twelve and i see mainly the residents of this community that come in with real legal problems and i'll tell you what they are and i would ask the questions what are you going to do about that the main problem i see is domestic violence and that is domestic violence against women largely some men come in and they are also victims but largely it is women and it's women having other problems as well domestic violence lack of child support abuse even sexual violence and i don't see any improvement in that and i've been an attorney in this city and in this neighborhood for forty years perhaps and i don't see any real attention paid on the part of the city or indeed most people in the city to those sorry facts and the other problem that i see over and over is landlord tenant problems and the main problem that i see as a people being illegally and regardless of what council or no del says or spare perry or jared those problems only increase i don't know what is happening in this city but there certainly is an increase vixens there's a lot of in from dissin from asian to tenants they don't think they have any rights so i would like to ask you all what are you doing about those two or what will you do about the problems of violence against women in particular in all kinds of ways including financial and also what i we really doing about the fact that people poor people are losing their homes all of the time in this city that is supposed to be so just sandy thank you for all your work on behalf of people who are in tough situations in need need legal assistance on and on domestic violence i think you know it's a multi pronged response we have to have we have to  power women economically there are by through through having gender equity in wage structures just for one within the city the city can be a model employer in that regard we could do more i think that the police department does a reason is is is relatively effective at at enforcing laws against against violence that men or men or women are are committing against others against or partners i believe our place department has a pretty good record in that regard and then on just nonfictions maybe it's time to go back and look at just cause of action again that is a charge to change that would be a fight  but it always made sense to me and it's been a while since we tried  it thanks andy i think the first thing i would say is we've got to recognize that violence against women is not something that happens in faraway places and we need to recognize and not circle the wagons when it rears its ugly head here in our community and call a spade a spade and that means again acknowledging when it appears and not simply pretending that it's a problem elsewhere i think in addition to economic independence that jane talked about doing that's going to help bring this out of the shadows i think there's a real stigma  i've done pro bono legal work with women helping battered women and other organizations and in my experience there's a real stigma that women feel around this issue and i think and we as a community recognize it policy which in my view is a complete abomination and a violation of the constitutional rights of our most vulnerable victims when people's tents we were talking about that type of tenant when their tents are confiscated and thrown away their bikes confiscated i have clients that have suffered this and thrown away that is simply unacceptable that is a moral outrage at its very basis level and so i would fight for those people as a city councillor as well and continue to bring that advocacy you so much indeed for asking this question the issue of violence against women has been something i've been thinking about a lot the last few days i can't say that really a single one of my friends has not been affected in some ways by violence or abuse or harassment myself included i went to college in tech was the first college in the us to create a formalized affirmative consent policy back in the ninety's before its time way before the current wave of the me too movement i think it was shocking to me to realize as like an eighteen or nineteen year old that no one ever even taught me about consent ever literally and so i think to me it just really articulated the need to have education around consent and are a healthy and i mean i would always advocate for this to be mandatory in vermont schools to have you know mandatory consensual sexual education and sexual health and here in burlington and i really do think it's a huge part of the problem is that we have so little education around this i think  point you know economic equity is a huge aspect to you know improving violence against women specifically and then beyond that you know as a renter and i've seen a lot of friends struggle with addiction i you know i also agree that we should be pushing for a just cause of action policy and i would really yeah i would really like to organize as renters i want  to you know like i've said i've talked to a lot of friends about creating attendants union and i think that this is a really good avenue for working towards that end question i'm just wondering if you each of you could discuss the tools of municipal government that you would look at for alternatives to the property tax for funding basic city services can we just have the question repeate short could you discuss the tools of municipal government that you would look to so what do we have on the books we don't have to go to the legislature for a charter change but what can we do now to find alternatives to the property tax to fund basic city services as a good question and that's something that is important to do and that and the city and has done this over the past decades so just to frame and a little bit people what high level of services you know we've added staff to public works so that when we're so that we're doing more projects and there's more people at publix at the public works who can work with the community to help the community identify what solutions they need for their street to deal with traffic calming and so far that's just one example so people want the police officers to be in the community and on foot and really developing relations to the people these are all high quality public services but we need to pay for them in an affordable way without overly relying on the property tax the increase on this year's budget is very very modest and had i unanimous support from the city council but over time we can't just keep on increasing property taxes so one way that we in the past have done this is by by creating something called a franchise fee on utilities because the university and the medical center that that don't pay property taxes they do consume a lot of electricity and they paid franchise fees and that helps spread the burden to these large institutions we also have a gross receipts tax which is the tax on essentially the hospitality sector and so that people who visit burlington who have the who are able to rent you know kind of stay in my hotel they're paying a gross receipts tax the ghost of the city so that we can maintain city services without always going back to the property tax so those are just two examples and i think that we should i think that we had a conversation with the c e o in the mayor and there's a commitment to continuing to look for more as we move forward one idea that i liked that came out of last year's town meeting day was the i believe it was a one percent luxury tax on properties valued over five hundred thousand on the sale of that and that would have generated three hundred fifty thousand dollars and i believe that was intended the folks who put that together was intended to go potentially towards like the housing trust but you know those are just an example of but yeah i that was something that i helped work on sort of tangentially i was excited that councilor pyne brought that forward last year and that's something i would absolutely support yeah i think i agree with the sentiment and i think probably many of us do that middle class working people elderly young people trying to start families in our community are taxed  extremely high rates when compared to perhaps other places in the country and so i think if we're whatever we're going to look at first specific solutions has to target those among us who are the most fortunate and can afford to give back to a community that has given them so much and so certainly looking at luxury taxes of the type perry describe i think we could look even broader than that in terms of other large ticket items that  people that have significant disposable income purchased second cars and i'm not sure that would require a charter change or not but i think we could and some cities and states have done taxes on particular services that  folks of the higher income brackets take advantage of so say expensive legal services i'm a lawyer i probably shouldn't admit that although almost all of my work is done pro bono and i think we could look at other other services again that are going to be very strategic and and target only the highest income earners and the most wealthy among us looking at the city's relationship with the university of vermont champlain college obviously two huge economic drivers in the city two huge employers but also i think they tend to compound so our compound some of our issues that we're seeing in the  city with the quality of housing rents things like that i'm curious as they continue to increase their enrollment and intend continue to kind of expand their footprint you have you know the development on st paul that will be housing soley for sampling college students i'm curious what you all would do to ensure that they continue to be a good partner with the city and don't compound some of these issues that we're dealing with and will likely continue deal with in the future thank you absolutely thank you for that question so yes something i've heard a lot about is the character of the neighborhoods especially neighborhoods that are close to  you know in some of those streets there's maybe only one or two long term residents and so something that's interested me i was looking into this and i was reading an article about sort of what has been called like this time into fixation of the neighborhood and the ratio that was proposed in this study that i was looking at was like twenty five percent of the neighborhood is a really ideal amount of students to sort of build out a healthy character for a neighborhood and so i think this aspect of yes some of the compounding issues is the fact that like yemen champlain and you have especially is not really housing its students and a lot of that housing that there are the providing is not really affordable as well so i really would look to the city and our role to really push for them to provide student housing and student housing that's affordable so that we can kind of try to get back to that twenty five percent ratio and then beyond that you know just within those development projects and those contracted you know just make sure that those large scale developments are really taking into account the city as a whole  benefiting every day you know sort of just folks regular folks who live and work here and and  thanks the question one question i do have is i when i was in college i don't remember such an infatuation with fireworks i hear a lot of young students near where i live watching fireworks at all hours of the night so first of all i think we've got to do something about fireworks within city limits but that aside i would just recognize that what drum circles are ok fireworks no i would just recognize that that look we got to and i think we have perhaps on a pretty good job i think we could strengthen this we've got to build relationships here these universities and these colleges are a big part of what makes burlington thrive right there a big part like that sandy they're a big part of what make burlington thrive and we've got to recognize that so with with the difficulties i can put up with some fireworks because these folks these students are down here spending their money that restaurants and music venues and eateries and really making it the vibrant community that we all love on the other hand the housing issue is a crisis so the municipal emergency ok i might not have the authority to clear one just yet but i think we're in we're in crisis mode and so one of the things i think we can do if you delegation our and our use the bully pulpit to push the legislature to increase funding to higher ed so that maybe they have the more of a capacity and we could attach strings to it even the capacity to build out on campus housing and i think that's  reduce some of the problems we've talked about without risking the vibrancy that all of these wonderful students from all over the country and all over the world it's awesome bring bring to bring to the city house all of its students you v m does not and so the housing on st paul street you could see it as taking demand away from the private market although many of those students i think came from a new skin not burlington  but still that's why we want the universities and colleges to build their own housing is that it frees up the rest of the housing stock for other people i think the trinity campus up at you v m is is a is a p see because of declining numbers of high school students in the north east i'd i would be very surprised if enrollments increased dramatically at either institution but we're still at a place where where there's too much didn't demand on on the housing so i would just add one more thing which is to say that as i've been try try to find ways to connect my life on the unit that on campus to what i've done as a center because there are lots of benefits that are embedded in the federal tax code so if you don't know how to access them you don't get them like the income tax credit so there are lots of ways to build positive connections thank so actually my question is specifically for a council person nadal so you said something earlier that was not correct and i'd like to give you a chance to re answer the question you said that you thought that the burlington police department was doing a good job of addressing domestic violence and that's just not true one of my friends had the cops called on her while her boyfriend was attacking her recently and the police officer asked her in front of him if he was hurting her which i think you can probably figure out why that wasn't an effective way for them to respond to the situation that's just what that happened two weeks ago this happens over and over again and i think that relying on the police to address domestic violence is especially considering the number of police officers who commit domestic violence is a terrible idea so i'd like i'd like you to answer that question again with a little bit more thought think i'm sorry to hear about that incident i've heard i've looked at data that suggest that there are much instances of much better police response clearly you know police enforcing laws is just a one very small part of the problem of addressing the problem of domestic violence but i do think it has to be part of the problem it's a public safety and public health challenge that requires addressing it on multiple levels as i indicated in my earlier  answer thank you for bringing that up wiley you know that that statistic of i think it's you know officers are twice as look likely to be domestic abusers as a regular population it's absolutely an issue  it's something that i've had frustration with i had a just work trying to work with police departments to resolve issues of sexual violence and of us to violence is so frustrating in the u s it's just not effective i've tried to call i've tried to for friends on behalf of friends it's incredibly frustrating the only time that i actually had an effective relation interaction with police in regards to harassment of violence was when i was in iceland which has a completely way that and in so in the degree the instance that i was bringing forth was such a was so much it was amazing how much more seriously they took it compared to what i was trying to do back here in the u s years before so  i definitely see that as a as a serious concern so i appreciate yeah i don't think there's too many people and i see the marriage still here so you might be able to vote for those that have used tried to use the power of the law to enforce the civil rights and constitutional rights of ruling tony and these of the government authority and the police so might come as a surprise that that i'm actually a real supporter of many of the things that law enforcement are doing in burlington i'm thrilled when they come and knock on my door just to introduce themselves usually i'm like oh my goodness i must be doing something wrong why are you here  they're they're there to introduce themselves as part of i think this community policing approach however and i think this is really important this goes to your point we must hold law enforcement to account i think we need to strengthen oversight of the police department in this city and as a constitutional rights lawyer as a civil rights attorney it is simply unacceptable to accept anything less than a full and complete vindication of all burling tony and constitutional and civil rights these of the police authority and i think that the current oversight model is is is quite ineffective and doesn't provide sufficient checks on  authority of law enforcement look nobody likes to have law enforcement come into their home but it's really important that we have adequate oversight and i think in all honesty growing the strength of n p a's to engage in  in oversight issues and things like community policing at the neighborhood level is one way that we might look at harnessing all of your energy to help provide that check because i'm sick to go into court to argue civil rights cases  i want to go off ants and i think what i mean by that is coming up with better ways to oversee the police even though of course they're doing a difficult job day in and day out i recognize that but as citizens we've got to demand more and we as i said in the beginning together can come up with those solutions need to do everything we can and this gets back to the importance and how i approach all of these problems as a constitutional and civil rights attorney we need to do everything we can from using the courts to litigate when necessary from using the streets to march when necessary and that includes the church street market place which i certainly hope maintains itself as a public space where we can continue to march for the rights of all and advocate for the  basic principle that black lives absolutely matter and i don't mean to get angry about this but it's darn important and that's why at at bottom to me this whole conversation about the d id is so critical  because those rights are fundamental and when we're talking about black lives matter we're talking about constitutional and civil rights to autonomy to liberty to say to a living in a safe  inclusive community to be free from racial ethnic bias all those things are our constitutional principles that i hold dear and so i appreciate you bringing up that question and i think my track record of yes black lies matter as a city how can a city councilor take that into her work i think a couple different ways willis keep going with with the policing we need a strong and impartial policing policy in the city of burlington and we need an effective mechanism for overseeing that policy we've been working on fair impartial policing and we are having a conversation about the police commission there is a citizen complaint process that the police commission has set up they're strengthening it and it provides i think pretty effective oversight of incidents so if anyone is unhappy with how the police handle something i encourage you to use that citizen complaint process because the commission actually looks at the video of the incident and they ask questions about why officers did what they did and i think we need to let the system see how how it can work we have a something that's very close to a sanctuary city policy i'll put that in quotes and that's also protecting brown people and black people who are trying to just have a life that the where they can be safe from the threat of violence we need to do more on fair housing access to do away with housing discrimination that's the other area where black lives matter if you don't have the ability to choose where you can want to you can live based on your race you are being deprived of some very basic rights and we have a fair housing project i think i think we have the institutions in place we need to use them my colleague professor sticks and we know has done work on traffic stops we still have a problem with racial bias in traffic stops working on it we're not there yet but i think that we're working on you for that question yes i mean yes black eyes matter fortunately in the systems that we have currently in institutions we're just not doing enough to support folks of color so one thing that's frustrated me immensely in a lot of like the town hall meetings or around different development projects or design projects is constantly recommendation that we just increase policing in our community which is makes me wonder and we i mean as i think you know we do have we know that black and brown folks are pulled over at you know eight to ten times more than their white counterparts so it's really shocking to me to hear people say that we need to increase policing and that's going to make us more safe i don't know who that us is but i think that a lot of people like people experiencing chronic houseless ness or mental health issues are black and brown folks are not being made more safe through increased policing and i know that some of the suggestions have been made around having community policing but the research that i've done on that has shown that that is not an effective measure to reduce police brutality or unfair policing practices i've talked with a few folks about the work that some councillors have tried to do in the past to create the community oversight review board and that's kind of lost momentum and that's something that i would really like to revisit as a city councillor is how we can bring momentum back to that and then yeah yeah i think i'm trying to remember if there was any there was one more point i don't think i don't think so but those absolutely i mean it's been very frustrating it's been frustrating to watch the conversations around the mural as well so we need to do a lot in this on this topic ok thank you folks are the questions we're going to go to closing remarks and we'll start with her one minute closing remarks ok yeah thank you also much again for being here tonight and sitting out i don't even know what time it is it's past night maybe and it's really late yeah you know i really i just really appreciate all the input that i've been able to hear from all of you tonight to hear about the issues that you're concerned about and that you'd like to see addressed you know by or by your city council i've  had the opportunity to door knock pretty much every day since the caucus and talk to thousands of people across the district i think a lot of the issues that you all are bringing here tonight are being echoed by people at their doors it's also been a real opportunity to see you know to see some of those issues that i you know kind of brought up initially which is like you know the fact that we have a riddick on me so there's been men's inequity some folks talk about that there's invisible poverty but we just simply don't  organizer it's just so apparent all the time that we need to address these issues so i you know i'd really like to work towards improving these and continuing to hear your input and terms of the issues that we can address here in the city thank you i want to thank perry and jared for a great debate and all of the great questions i will i just want to talk a little bit about all the great things that are happening with the initiative the people in this room there is a lot of community based entrepreneurship going on to make life better in the old north and then downtown let's think about the old north and arts center big heavy world the old north in our business network  helping and nurturing diverse seniors i mean a lot of the i see the work of a city councillor is fostering this kind of these community organizations that are really trying to address the problems that we that we have government can't do it all but government can be a strong partner with the can with the community initiatives that are that are going on already and i think this is you know where i can bring my experience my knowledge of how city government works to really  great thanks to both of you and thanks to all of you for sitting through alongside stephanie past my bedtime so i'll be quick in this sixty seconds that i have i think jane's absolutely right that government can't do everything but what government can do and what inspirational government can do and what n p r and the like can do is set the tone and that's what my campaign all the doors i've knocked on i've talked about had great conversations with folks about is setting that tone that says burlington leads i think we're at a crossroads in this city and in this country but in burlington we have a real opportunity to reestablish ourselves as a state and national and international leader by having government not solve all the problems but set the tone by investing in people not profits not out of state corporations by protecting public assets like burlington telecom like the downtown marketplace and by maintaining a city government that is co equal branches constitutional rights and civil liberties protect and i apologize for running  on the twenty third which is next saturday i'm having a forum here on renters rights and tenants rights and landlord tenant law right in this room and it will be ten o'clock i believe i don't know if melissa is here or not but anyway it begins at ten o'clock or we'll be talking about renters rights tenants rights and landlord tenant law hope to see you all there thank you thank you we actually have two more agenda items however seeing that the time is late i think instead of having a presentation on it i may do two things one is there's still time to enter the door prize the twenty five dollar it feels feel free to come up and put your name in and instead of presenting on the ballot items does anybody have any questions for the city councilors or the mare on either ballot i had a number yeah i was just curious to know just even briefly to hear from the mayor and some of the like to read just briefly what their positions would be on those to validate him so maybe the some of the pros and cons really quick i'll just answer the personal business the business personal property is an antiquated form of taxation that only applies to burlington businesses and none of the businesses know the communities around us tax businesses in this way and it really discourages investment in equipment based businesses so if you have you know machinery that is creates a decent living wage jobs you're actually penalized so it's a i think an important modernization to our tax system that other communities have implemented and were little behind on that one and then the other one is an advisory question on the plastics issue and someone sold me recently was actually a young person very young person told me did you know there's going to be more pieces of plastic in the ocean than fish by twenty thirty so that's the type of thing that we're trying to get at we're not sure exactly how we will implement this but the idea is to deal with single use plastics perhaps i mean obviously a ban on single use plastics is is one approach and that is on the table basically agree with brian on this both of us need to the only thing i think important understand the proposal for the the the business personal property tax it's actually a terrible name because it sounds like it's about personal property is about equipment for commercial businesses it does generate a significant amount of revenue right now over a million dollars a year this phase out the way it's proposed is been set up in such a way that that will have almost no impact on existing property taxes or minimal impact on existing property taxes payers because it is phased out of an eight year period and most of the phase out happens at the end when the city's going to get an infusion of new revenues from the expiration waterfront fifth district so i think this is getting ready as brian says a manic way to tax in a way that is as painless as possible thank you and congratulations everybody still here you made it to the end we're now going to do our door prize drawing to get a volunteer to come pick the door prize ok i'm going to do it is trad friar still here thank you for coming to the n b a tonight we'll see you next month