committee on natural resources will come to order pl before the committee begins and i make my opening comments i would like to take a point of personal privilege and say happy birthday to a member of our committee who happens to be a classmate of thirty six thirty five thirty four the consolidated land energy and aquatic resources act of two thousand and nine appropriately known as the clear act for its visionary approach to putting this country on a more sustainable path for energy development on our public lands and off our coast our two party hearing begins today with vital input from the secretary of interior our good friend can salazar the administrator of the national ocean and atmospheric administration dr jane will go and government watchdogs we will continue tomorrow with a variety of stakeholder perspectives on this proposal for too long the only white interior department has measure success has been by the number of acres at least in a number of wells rather not this was being done responsibly safely effectively or with the best interest of the american people at heart it was simply an afterthought we know from detailing major flaws in a federal program are being released these reports add significantly to the massive body of investigative work done over the past twenty five years calling into question the management of the entire federal getting a fair return for the american taxpayer we have the opportunity with the current department of interior and with responsible action by this congress to ensure that the development of our nation's resources is done right the clear act  months of discussions with everyone from environmental groups the oil and gas industry is a comprehensive effort toward more responsible energy development our strategy is not one of no development the clear act is about smarter development there are those who argue that congress should get out of the way and allow federal land management open as much land as possible for drilling to them i say the bush administration tried that approach and it failed the previous administration granted every wish the industry had and what did this nation get in return an upsurge in the price of gasoline increased dependence on foreign oil a string of ethical scandals and a blind eye toward any environmental responsibility whatsoever all while the oil and gas industry raked in staggering problems doubling down on mistakes of the last eight years is not a smart way to move forward to those who argue that we need an all of the above approach to energy policy i wholeheartedly agree where i disagree however is that for far too long when it came to environmental responsibility balanced development and taxpayer protections and let me stress the last taxpayer protections the previous administration pursued a none of the above strategy the clear act will change that offshore this bill creates more comprehensive framework for siting in developing energy projects was taking into consideration the other uses and needs of the offshore environment while the existing process works well in those areas that already have oil and gas development it is poorly suited for areas where new infrastructure may be required and energy development may be possible in addition to ensuring that eco systems and crucial fishing grounds remain protected the clear act will give industry more predictable when it comes to offshore energy development the costs of doing it right are natural but the consequences of doing it wrong are disastrous we believe this approach is an important piece of a larger comprehensive ocean planning the ocean task force is considering right now that task force will issue its first recommendations this week and we expect to work closely with the ministration as it moves forward on shore this bill recognizes that we need  serious about renewable development with a comprehensive leasing program to facilitate fair access and smart rather than ad hoc projects under special permits or rights of this bill would establish the office  federal energy minerals combining the energy development work currently split between the m m s and the bureau of land management having one agency doing the lease and one agency collect the money is inefficient unnecessary complex and potentially cost the american people millions in lost royalties his new office would help simplify matters for oil and gas companies and renewable energy developers while allowing b l m to focus on its primary role as a multiple use land management agency and further the legislation would dedicate a small portion of the normal revenue generated by energy development towards fully funding the land and water conservation fund and the newly created ocean resources conservation assistance or fun through both programs we will reinvest proceeds from development into conservation this is a step towards restoring a balance to the management of our federal  not command secretary salazar is for beginning that process and certainly for taking the time to be with us today he recognizes that we need to develop these resources but he has also taken important steps to ensure that public lands containing important wildlife topic of today's hearing thirty five thirty four your legislation under the schedule set by secretary salazar is the first of many witnesses that this committee will hear over the course of the next two days this legislation needs a very careful and thorough review let me give you a few of my observations of that at a time when our nation should be focused on creating jobs and producing more energy producing energy with higher and potentially add years of delay to energy development both offshore and on federal lands in my view all of this will cost us the high energy jobs that our american economy desperately needs right now these robots impact not just oil and natural gas but also with the production of wind and solar renewable energy so it's difficult to  this legislation will result in more domestic energy production just as a waxman markey a national energy tax will drive up the cost of energy in america and send jobs overseas for a nation this bill to fail to produce more energy and it cost us jobs here in america on the other hand a republican all of the above energy plan stands in stark contrast to the democrat democratic agenda to erect obstacles and levy high taxes on more energy development that bill h r twenty eight forty six was introduced in june and is consideration is under the jurisdiction of this committee while many in washington want to pick and choose which energy jobs to create the republican all of the above plan is focused on creating all of the energy jobs that we can green jobs solar jobs when jobs jobs nuclear jobs  let me go back to say that the republican all of the above plan is focused on creating all of the energy jobs that we can green jobs solar jobs growing jobs nuclear jobs clean coal jobs with unemployment almost ten percent nationally our nation can't afford to only pursue one aspect and that's the green jobs we need to get all the jobs that we can get so i hope mr chairman that we can explore the benefits of h r twenty eight forty six in addition to a question about questions about holes legislation i know that many of my colleagues likely on both sides of the aisle will have additional matters that they wish to raise with the secretary there's a great deal that has happened during the first eight months of this new administration in today's hearing is an opportunity to talk directly with the secretary about matters under his jurisdiction at the department of interior for example there is great concern over the six months delay that has been opposed on development of the new five year lease program for offshore drilling last year president bush and the congress lifted the moratorium on offshore drilling yet in spite of the broad bipartisan support across the country for opening additional areas of drilling among the first act of this administration was to put such plans on hold for six months next monday marks the end of this six month period now the secretary will detail for us the plans for moving forward probably with a five year offshore plan at the same time that new offshore leases were being delayed other actions were taken by the department that also harmed the production of more american energy creation of american jobs oil and gas leases were suddenly withdrawn in utah and oil shale research that we create new jobs in colorado wyoming were delayed and the thirty one billion dollars and higher taxes on oil and gas production that were proposed in the president's budget i know there are members of this committee who wish to try to understand how the spoken words of this administration in support of our energy production matches up against their actions that appear contradictory to the words there is also the three billion dollars in economic stimulus funds that the department received this year i'm sure i'm a on the committee are interested in hearing how this large sum of money is being spent and how many specific jobs have been created so the interests of allowing as much you very much chairman and ranking member as well as members of the committee on both sides of the aisle democrats and republicans i work with you on many issues i know there are actually three members on this committee from my home state but today's hearing is only beginning of our conversation that will take us over the weeks and months ahead to really grasp of a new reality for the energy future united states of america and this is a good beginning i wanted my staff to be here with me today because they are not only my stuff but their leaders within the department of interior and as members will be interfacing with them in the days ahead as we craft a comprehensive energy legislation for our  solicitor she also has served as inspector general for the department of interior that's an important point to make an important factor in my selection of her to run this important part of the department because of the ethical lapses that have been a part of the department of interior over the last eight years her work as u s attorney united states attorney for the district of columbia also be helpful with us as we manage this and of the department for twenty eight year professional experience will be helpful to all of us about the country like no one else and will be helpful to us as we address the myriad of issues that come before this committee pointed to be director of the minerals management service by president obama and me  twenty years of experience in natural resource policy issues actually been a staff member here in the house including working with the house committee on natural resources he also served in the past in the solicitor's office as a lawyer in the department of message within the department of interior i wanted them to be here today i wanted them to hear from you and i want them to be part of the team as we put together the framework for energy development and those responsibilities at the department of interior we move forward  our other agencies include the u s geological survey which has a huge role with its ten thousand scientists helping us understand the realities of climate change issues like carbon sequestration biological sequestration and the like and so as we move forward in this time under the under president obama's administration we look very much forward to working with the members of congress as we tackle the difficult the thermal power of the wind and the other power of renewable energy within the department and through existing authorities that we already have and support the congress we've moved aggressively on this agenda they won't go through all the detail about some of his  and the onshore we have up to this point in time from january until now conducted twenty one leigh sales we have offered two point four million acres of land for oil and gas exploration and development just in the op shore  we have been on this bandwagon for a long time but frankly the united states of america has failed decade after decade failure is over on our need to get our independence from foreign oil secondly we need to create clean energy jobs  four quick points on the legislation which is before us before the committee this morning they raise important questions the legislation that is under consideration raises important questions both about the math the organization  the department of the interior as well as how we make sure that the united states of america collect a fair return for resources that are owned by the american taxpayer these are fundamental question the question of royalty rate last year in the gulf coast of mexico the royalty rates were raised to over eighteen percent on the onshore they have not been raised for a long time and they remain at twelve point five percent have been for a very long time the question of conventional energy as well as with respect to renewable energy those are very important questions within our department how do we best organize and how do we work with our sister agencies including the department of commerce with respect  interior of the united states of america to make more money essentially by taking product and instead of taking the royalty price for the oil that was being sold we certainly don't do that in the timber we know we don't stockpile if you will timber assets and intend to terminate the oil program and as i terminate the royalty in kind program my comment to the members of this committee is to ask you to continue to work with us as we move forward with the broader issue because other i think it is important mr chairman to recognize that those visionaries in the days of president really felt that the land and water conservation fund was being created in order to be able to give something back to the earth where taking something from the earth and yet in the time that it was operated we essentially have seen what is a broken promise to the american nation relative to the failure of of the people united states of america last year we collected twenty four billion dollars and yet just a smidgen of that gets to reinvest back into the great outdoors and a lot of water conservation on an average year and   first it is important that we get it right it is better to get it right than to get it wrong and then have to go back to the uncertainty of litigation that will give you the example of the two thousand and seven and two thousand  law and it's because of the issues that have been raised here relative to the environmental analysis was missing from those areas that are going to be impacted from oil and gas development we've got about two thousand and seven two thousand and twelve and they did and  are going on with respect to building up the energy economy and i think when you look at what's happening across the country i can tell you that in the areas that i am most familiar with if you look at the atlantic coast there is tremendous interest saying we also have the united states geological survey work with the minerals management services another agency to come up with their review of what it is that we know what it is we don't know and we're developing that information and we are still in the process own view is that when you're talking about an area that is as important as a subject area of energy and when you're talking about an area that is as large as the outer continental shelf as one point seven five billion acres of land it's important to do it do anything because there is a lot that we can do when one looks at norway and denmark and the united kingdom in the amount of energy that they currently are producing from the op short there are elements of great potential of the atlantic and let me just mention three of them the first is that the wind measurements that we have off the atlantic show that it is a much higher quality wind that we have in the offshore on the mainland of the united states and so that's what our scientists are telling us number two the way that the atlantic coast goes from the mainland it is a very shallow coast and so we believe that the kind of off shore facilities there that have been constructed in other places around the country number  and not around the country but around the world number three when you look at the energy contribution that is being made from wind energy in places like denmark it is very very significant and so that's how it is  high as forty percent of their energy coming from wind energy and i guess the fourth point i would make about the atlantic is that one of the major challenges that we face with the renewable energy congress is the question of transmission how do you get the energy from the place  he is doing the job in the department of interior dealing with a whole host of issues including i must imagine probably two thousand letters that we get from the members of congress just about every week so he has a lot a lot on his plate but thank ways and historic sites and you see this throughout the country and if we had the opportunity to make these kinds of investments i think it would be good for the economic health of our nation and of our state yesterday  secretary la hood in front of the tourism directors of the fifty states who are here in washington d c and we spoke about how the quality of life and the strength of our economy was so dependent on the opportunities that we have it is second only to agriculture in terms of that particular economy and i think you can make the same argument with respect to our states and in this nation that if we can take care of our outdoors it also is a great way in which we can create september i will be meeting with the leadership involved in these water issues in california washington pointed david haye's a deputy secretary of interior the focus on this issue i have a person on the ground trying to pull things together and at the end of the day i think that what  has happened is that california today in its water issue is suffering from the fact that it did not have the kind of attention that it should have had for the leadership to try to bring in different values that are being debated  argue for the need for additional water facilities but i think you'd have to agree that two hundred billion gallons of water would make all the difference in the world in the central valley if it hadn't been diverted for the delta smelt and while the  failure and frankly it would be a way in which we ultimately would not address the comprehensive nature of the issues that need to be addressed in the conversations that i've had with members of the california congressional delegation fifty governors we also have to recognize the territories and they have governors as well which means fifty six governors protection of preservation a very sensitive land and the need to get on the ground as quickly as possible is as you indicated in your opening how are you how are we going to mitigate that is there a way to when history looks back at this period we will have that up with the renewable energy potential of the nation on solar and wind and geothermal and much of that will occur on public lands now as we and engage  embrace that imperative it is also important for us to do it in a way that recognizes that we should not do it in a healthy way or in a lottery way where whatever comes in the door we end up taking but that we do it in a  so you raise but let me also say that you in your service in iraq which i very much admire know that this country has absolutely failed as it did in the last eight years to get us any sense of energy independence and the members of this committee will know well president nixon's timing in determining in coining the term energy independence and president carter saying that we needed to embrace energy independence with the moral imperative of war and the want to get energy independence we're going to get it done and we're going to get it done in a lot of different ways with respect to specific issues which you raise on many of those at least going forward the fact is that i don't believe that we should drill everywhere because  not every place is appropriate for us to drill we should be drilling there arches national park and canyonlands and dinosaur those are important that we need to protect the respect of the outer continental shelf when you're talking about one point five billion received is the apparently false claim that there are only seven such communication now i don't know if there is something to hide in the department but certainly the actions so far give that appearance and i would love to tell people there have been no proprieties but your department  provided no data so far to allow me to do that i'm told the department's response to another congressional office looked like this four pages of the response that was given to them everything except the address and the statement  transparency accountability provides information for citizens about whether what their government is doing and that's what we're after what the public should be able to find out and the second issue which goes directly to your question about the interdepartmental relationship and cooperation we have also asked for certain documents relating to how the department of materials working with the department of homeland security to coordinate responsibilities on our border security now these documents once again are not a trivial fishing expedition that  drug trafficking trafficking and human smuggling we have another two thousand threat assessment never been shared with us as our federal lands our national security disaster and we're hearing reports from border patrol agents that their hands improve relative to how we are leasing for oil and gas both in the ocean as well as and as well as on the onshore and we have a number of recommendations some of which are included in this bill some of which are not and we will work with the committee  the legislation does move does move forward i do agree with you very much that technology has made major changes and major opportunities that was not considered to be conceivable on a horizontal  i am very familiar with where i know that those landowners are doing different things in the terms of oil and gas production because of technology and what is being done on our public lands and so one of the things that secretary lewis and director  ve that our oceans are in and as much as they are a potential resource for renewable energy i think it's important that we take take into account the impact of whatever we happen to do and i'm grateful to hear that  follow up question as you know the georges bank off the coast of massachusetts in new england is an irreplaceable resource and i'm committed to keeping it off limits to drilling what are your thoughts so as you go forward with your planning process as to how to protect very fragile ecosystems that are that are in our oceans so we should be able to do that both with respect to the five year plan but then also with respect to particular projects because have you here as you've heard other members of the committee hear i think we're all on the same page having all of the above energy policy making sure that we're developing our oil and gas resources here as well as renewable and alternative energy sources and woman and that is that we have very little information on the atlantic and what is there and what is not and frankly we don't have that information because that information has been collected and so one of the questions that we are looking at forward i think it's important for all of us who work on this issue to keep in mind that we want to do is we want to have a government process and a government organization here that works and that works especially in the works effectively and i'll be the which are addressed in this legislation today and there will be two tracks with respect to how we move forward one will be a track that we can accomplish administratively within our department and that i can do through existing authorities then i would ask of course all members have the right to submit your questions in writing to the secretary he has been very gracious with his time today well over two hours and we appreciate it and i know that he and his dedicated staff there with him here today would be glad to respond to members questions in writing am i correct yes indeed thank you thank you and the committee will stand in recess until one o'clock which should allow the two outs on the house floor  will be sufficient to provide for not jeopardizing those species and providing adequate potential for recovery we believe that out of an abundance of caution especially in light of climate change and other things which we might not anticipate that it's critically important that we have the ability to monitor constantly and to have back those contingency actions are both rapid response actions things that could be done immediately and that would bring immediate benefits and some actions that would take longer to implement and would have benefits farther down the testimony are increasingly exponentially in particular there is a growing interest in developing renewable energy projects offshore as well as increasing the amount of oil and gas development comprehensive coastal resources but so too are many other states around the united states although i grew up in colorado my father was from south carolina and south carolina has a very vibrant  tourism industry that is dependent on the health and well being of a variety of activities in and around the coastal region the national oceanic and economic program gives us information that says that the leisure and hospitality industry of coastal counties in south carolina contributed over three billion dollars to the g d p of the state in two thousand and seven so that's just one sector of the economy and it clearly benefits significantly from having a vibrant ocean and coastal healthy ecosystem that drive a lot of the economy tremendous economic benefit to the nation and if we sum up the sum total of revenues generated by communities throughout the united states over sixty percent of the g d p of the entire nation so clearly the coastal states and territories have very significant dependence on the health of the ocean ecosystem clear authority responsibility and we would very much welcome an opportunity to work with congress to ensure that that happens until we have such a policy the and we would not want to be in a situation where there is a vacuum that is created i think in certainly our intention to move toward a situation where we information we don't have all the information that we would like to have including that i don't believe that we need to wait for all of that to come in before we begin to make decisions based on the information at work mr congressman i say first just how much i appreciate the strong leadership that you have shown on behalf of science throughout the time that you have been in congress and i have appreciated that for a long time and  continue to do so i know that you believe not only in promoting science but in using the best available science to make decisions and i obviously agree with that very much  president i think has made clear that protecting and restoring ocean and coastal environment is a high priority of this administration that's reflected in the ocean policy task force and in the  reports that we will be providing to him for the first part of our activities the task force is releasing tomorrow the administration recognizes the need to step up our efforts to protect the oceans and to have the resources to do that as a general rule the administration opposes creating new mandatory programs or converting programs that have been funded through discretionary appropriations to mandatory funding so i think that it would be in order for us to work with the committee to pretty broad picture that report is going to the president it remains to be seen exactly what he will do with it and the report will be available for public comment but it does out as alluded to in the presidential memo set up the task force the urgent need to have more comprehensive  so the task force will be making a series of recommendations that are designed to draw attention to the need to have more integration collaboration environment i think there are many examples of committees that are designed to bring different perspectives together and in the best of all cases draw on find information to help inform those decisions but where there may be legitimate differences of opinion and that's part of the political process thank you so much mr chairman i greatly appreciate your leadership on this very important issue and the areas that we have in the bill that for which we have concerns we would welcome an opportunity to work with brasco the director of national resources and environment u s government accountability office and is company by mr jeffrey malcolm the director of national resource and environment u s government accountability office for improvements in the communication in the data and in the systems so that the systems can be updated and talk to one another do both of you believe that in the clear act may help clear up coordinate and address some of these inefficiencies yes there are several areas where the bill focuses on addressing specific issues that we have raised in our i'm aware that there is a requirement for lease five years of an eight year lease but are there any other specific formants requirements on other leases or is it possible to obtain a lease and