the council's committee on budget and financial come to order this is our meeting of march twenty seventh two thousand and fifteen president today for the comm with that we shall take public testimony on any item that we have agendas for today's meeting people will have three minutes as we post on our agenda three minutes to share your thoughts with us feature name if you represented entity state that entities name for us for information and we will assist you with time green light means keep talking yellow means thirty seconds and ridge means you need to stop and please don't make me remind anyone stating that we will have from the chambers first mr chip w and if there's anyone else that way to give public testimony please make yourself in order and we shall provide you the opportunity myself to question i'd just like to add that the significance of this funding and in need of it is this afternoon at three o'clock we meeting with the director of the department of environmental management relating to the layoffs if this funding doesn't go through we're looking at layoffs of regular employees in the solid waste division whole series of discussion grievances labor complaints and charges but this is something that is really unnecessary we're talking about thirty employees that are roughly about thirty ploy sixteen percent increase and it gave just highlights one of them was identifying more money budgeted for the enhancement of this building in the rest of the campus around here than it was for water so i thought i better get down and read so did in red the  not only they had gender but the proposals that with that kind of communication number fifteen eighty seven in fifteen the eighty eight it seems is the votes are pretty obvious with what's written here and with the kind of communications themselves it says that the department of water supply department expenses waterfront fund will cover deficits to employee fringe benefits miscalculated during preparations of his school year two thousand and fifteen budget i have no idea how that goes with paid people but somehow i would have thought that that would be pretty high when the determination was made to begin with so i was caught by surprise on that everybody that i've worked with on this campus has been to me say that before so the department expenses have been supposedly addressed by falling funds it seems as though they were kiddies that didn't have to be over here they could be spent over here and vice versa and all over the place so and again i'm not part of any of that but it does say in here that they were if they had an opportunity to be able to swap from department to department the water fund a nine million four hundred eighty four point six five two source that it could put into the revenues people i'm wondering why those who are in a pocket of money and not going into what needed to be done for the water when we take a look at the facts and we are in the supposedly four hundred fifty million dollars of debt hanging over because of the debts that have been run up by noncompliance with the man with the state department of health and caring and well being not a good deal for us to be that far in debt and yet the stuff that comes out in the paper is that we're fabulous and we powerful what we've got everything going for us not according to what's in here in the documents themselves so whoever put these documents together i want to appreciate that they did do that one of the first things that i am appreciating in there is that it took less than a day to get from the author the mayor in then through his appointed directors to get to the county clerk remember we were talking about this at the beginning of the year that it took like seven days to get from the ninth floor to the seventh floor that testimony was given here too so good for the fact that we've stepped up on that because timeliness is one of the things that's very vital and that is spoken about in this documentation is being very by don't you know also sit in the front page of the paper that there were no tax i that were going up but when i went through this it's definitely an increase in tax but the super that's in order to pay for the debt the county's debt service well how did we ever get to a de service like that when we have been speaking time after time after time at this forum in and other places about the fact that you can't just disregard the federal and state requirements they are there for the sake of everybody's health not just for a county budget so if we keep our focus on the health and well being which is certainly where it ought to be and when we take a look at a year ago  twenty twelfth when bono was put into the county charter kind of pathetic that it needed to be said but it definitely needed to be said and it was said and the voters passed on it we need to be functioning with bono so all of synopsis so it doesn't go on to yes the paperwork it's only you think has a lot of information in here that would make us realize that we need to keep a very close to the on what's happening and what is being said for accuracy and the behavior of omission it's not just like a mission the stuff that's left out and if we don't keep a close eye on that we're going to miss it so when i went back charter seconds you know i would encourage you to get a hold of it and it does talk about the fact that the life of the land is perpetuated in righteousness page one good orientation i understand there's not going to be any action taken on the second hearing today great wisdom to that thank you thank you ms robinson any questions for the gentle lady on her testimony members everyone we testify thank you very much is there anyone else in the chambers wishing to provide testimony having then in the objections we show close testimony for today's meeting members will jackson thank you so ordered we show proceed with the projects under being a forty two i would ask if you require certain department representatives please make it to work to us so we can have those people contact it for the appropriate time mean to come in a tin and be able to respond to your questions or concerns so think about that and i hope bring it up in a in a few moments doesn't meet the window it's going to have to wait to be processed and this that we were going to run i'm going to run this me committee with that let's go to know you and i have worked on budget when you were the chair again the way way back and i will be able to work with you on this budget issues that we are requesting and as you have mentioned mr of budget requests and why is it a general fund request to us now in my meeting that i attended with the department of parks and  it was kind of assessed that the revenue would not be able to cover the cost for the perimeter fencing and thus the request was made through our department i am not the grants man we don't administer the grant our department so i would have to call upon the department director of that the director of parks who's in the chambers who would be able to answer questions about the gran system restoration project is a co sponsor project by the county and the corps of engineers it's not necessarily driven by either the request was initially made by the colony to engage the services of the cor fifty thousand dollars for why is this county being asked to pay for it specific you know aspects of the grant revenue that would be the director deputy director of parks but the perimeter fencing as i understand is a means to mitigate the trespassing and the vandalism that is occurring on the parcel and it is affecting the neal archaeological inventory survey work that we are trying to commence with to the respect that recently we've had to delay our field work and additional delay of two weeks because the pins were removed  by unknown persons and as a whole we feel that installation of the perimeter fencing will hinder that type of activity on authorized activity from occurring on the partial to allow us to complete the areas fieldwork and that just recently occurred i think in the last two weeks or more around there so the perimeter fencing is not required by the corps but it was supported by the corps in the discussions with the corps staff that because i made that request you know before they they made their requests in you know it was appropriate proof for the areas work to be considered in kind i'm not sure if they will consider the perimeter the director savage's joining us from the department of parks and recreation so thank you very much for joining  is the why is this being brought to us when they are given a license to garner revenue off the parking lot in order to assist in such work and why isn't there are sufficient funds to cover that thank you for the question chair and council members so the funding that has come through the revenue for the parking lot at this time has been allocated for the hiring of a maintenance person  purchasing necessary small equipment and tools trimming and removing trees an invasive brush and other clearing of debris on a continual basis throughout the area and so when this concept of having the perimeter fence be put into place came up all of the revenues were allocated and spent in the as other ways of being able to kind of maintain the areas and so that's where it came up as being something that would need to be additionally funded as a part of the project the restoration project and so this ongoing maintenance it had just this is just started i mean it's been leased in process for twenty three years so i'm just all of a sudden there's maintenance and tools needed to be bought at this point and there's you know that's just what boggles my mind is  i would think those you know assets would been there would have been there and this is been should be ongoing but i guess is that what's happening this is a newly placed type of project in this maintenance and thereby with the i guess around the corner they just simply don't have the revenue in order to build this fence yeah and i don't want to speculate i guess back to far about how money's have been expended in different areas but i do know sense blossom is come on as the executive director she's done a lot of reviewing through the funds that are available how they're spending and making some maybe different allocations to make sure that things are being maintained and so they're there has been more of a conscious effort of how can we keep this area clear and cleaned and does there need to be more you know maintenance or security or monitoring of the area and that is something that there has been more of a focused effort and more funds focused on that type of expenditures in the in the recent two and a half years and so in your  does what are the monies from that park you know supposed to be expanded for and do you have any of those kind of detailed answers as and what are we looking forward on i mean we're going to put this fence in you know to make us run smoothly and protect it but after that i mean there's so much more work to be done so how much more are we going to have to be looking at if this parking lot can only be used for you know buying some tools in maine for maintenance person so within the license agreement the use of the premise  indicates that the licensee show use or allow the premises here by a license to be used solely to restore and preserve local and the ponds of mclean ia as an end of the net proceeds of what shall be used by licensee for vacation purposes and i do i do believe it also indicates in here that there should be approval by my county council by separate resolution at the end of the first three years and then every five years thereafter during the term of the license and i do know there was a resolution that was transmitted i believe in two thousand and eleven i was unable to find what happened with that resolution as far as if there was any action taken on it at that point in time i think some of it as the project moves forward and you know budgets are created on an annual beast as to determine how the revenues are going to be expended as there's more conversation about what the future needs might be and there may be different budgeting that's looked at for those revenues are coming in so that they can cover anticipated costs similar to this in the future i just this permit or fence was an anticipated at the time that there grant amounts were i guess being budgeted for the revenue from that lease wasn't looked at at that point in time so this committee's been being told is the u s army corps is assisting in or i guess responsible for the restoration section and then restate the question i'm going to answer when does the army corps funds get kicked in so basically the army completed a draft fees feasibility and environmental assessment and that was  funded hundred percent with army corps money so it kind of already got kicked in to complete that report and the next time the army need to put up money for this project we will need to so basically what i did was provide in that march twenty fifth transmittal and estimated cost for the project to date since then i got an updated  cost unfortunately on wednesday when the transmitter was made i received an email updating the cost by tens of thousands of dollars dollars so i have to transmit an updated  cost schedule to this committee after i leave today and in there the first item the project timeline it was estimated based on the area was if a us work being completed that estimate everything is evolving around the completion of the year so whenever that is completed that report needs to be submitted to s h p t yes report that needs to be approved upon sh beauty's approval army will review and assist how that affects the final feasibility study and the barman assessment and then come out with our schedule to complete  but like i say once they weave they have a chance to review report and findings they will make a decision whether to seek approval of the funding which is to complete the feasibility report and environmental assessment so in my discussions with the army they don't have approval right as we speak to complete the feasibility report to funding we did execute a memorandum of understanding between the army and the county which was nonfinancial it was just to clarify the steps and that was executed june third tw involvement i mean having you know they're dealing with federal dollars on that level i mean is there ever what is your initial you know thought and feeling in regards to this truly happening and this pattern you know i just spoke with the army last week in preparation for this meeting and they didn't get word that they're not going to move forward with that request once the arius report is approved they haven't indicated any anything to me that they're not going to move forward with that request to their washington for the monies to complete the feasibility and then subsequently the monies to design and construct the system nothing has been so i'm going on the assumption that they're moving from there they're  about tropical road in that whole area which i know you're familiar with so this perimeter fence scene has been figured out exactly where the boundary lies on that and you know all the rest of it towards  we will make a boundary that determination will need to be made to make sure that we're not on the tropical world and we're on the side of the tropical  perimeter fence location where it's going to be will contact the church and make sure that everybody is ok with the location of the perimeter fencing we are proposing to install a man gate which is a walk mandate which is for a person to go through where the church along that church boundary so that there's access between the church and the  thank you joe can you explain to me again what the necessity of the fence is for because initially you said pins were stolen and then in the report it says protection from disturbances from i guess the archaeological site so what is it exactly is going on and why do we have to spend fifty thousand is this a permanent fencing that's going to be there after  the project is completed is something that's going to be removed there after i would like a little bit more details of the necessity of it and the permanency of it there after the project the survey pins that were put in the ground to create the baseline to document the archaeological findings when they're when and if they're found so he creates like a grid and so there's pins in the ground to establish this the and now the surveyor has to go back and put the pins in that type of disturbance is occurring and then we suspect as we start excavating doing the areas field work there's a potential for people to come in and disturb the archaeological findings also saw because of the significance we understand this site has we felt that it was appropriate to go ahead and at this time to install this perimeter fencing and the permanency question in the eco system design seen we've discussed with the army corps is all rock wall with fencing on top or that would be to keep out the predators like rodents but or just straight fencing so you know this venting could be used in the final product but it entails the army corps has made a final determination of the what the perimeter needs to be to protect the  system i cannot say if this is going to be a permanent structure they've alluded needs to have rodent control so you know i'm not sure if the fencing this type of fencing will provide that so fencing i don't feel very comfortable with the responses on the temporariness in the permanents there's no design that actually is or a permanent perimeter patrol i don't know if this is an ongoing faffed or is it one time occurrence but to spend fifty thousand on an assumption that it's going to continue i very reluctant to spend that type of money at this point unless you can clarify if the theft is happening more than once i if you if you would like i can call the archaeologist who could speak more to the type of disturbances that has occurred on the site archaeological archaeologists is in the audience ready to answer any questions of that nature if the chair would  there is a concern for the disturbance to the archaeological findings which once there once damage has occurred to the logical finding of this significance i don't think you can restore it it's once the damage is done it's done and for the whole significant this site is i think it would be worth the fifty thousand basically what we've made a determination but as to the to  how significant this site is i'm i would be more comfortable if archaeological archaeologist came down to provide that information well i guess my other point was if it's so significant maybe you should do a media campaign for the general public to advise the community that it could be in jeopardy and maybe the community will step up and protect its own have we thought about that in stead of maybe we could spend ten thousand of the fifty thousand or five thousand just for a little bit of community effort you know when you go to a residential area is there a neighborhood watches you know if this is such a significant area which i believe it is the people will step up i'm not sure i'm completely convinced at this point the priority of a fifty thousand dollars temporary fence  i believe have going educational tours of the significance of the site which i don't think the county needs to add to that type of public information but you know my personal opinion is we don't want to advertise we're finding this or finding that as we do the archaeological inventory survey because i don't i can't say who in the public would want to cause damage to the findings just for the sake of doing it so i don't necessarily want to advertise what we're finding when we're finding it that kind of campaign but i am i like i said the friends i have these educational tours i think that sufficient to express to the public not just the tourists how significant this site is and why it needs to be protected i but probably my point is not to advertise the findings but to say that there is a significant vandalism or theft occurring in a very sacred area that would very much spur the i guess the people to react in a way that i believe would cause the disturbance or the vandals to take a second look but maybe we need to i need to get more information from the archaeological project manager or something  in terms of what are these pins you i mean to me when you say pins it's these metal type pins i know and construction and i'm not sure if that's equivalent to fifty thousand so edge i support the administration's request i've been involved with the site for over twenty years and this is a very sacred site survey is far less time consuming than the review by ship the review by ship was likely to take two years if not more on this type of  s we had a very simple one that we did and and cut a poly that had absolutely no findings and we were waiting for ship approval for over eighteen months i think it was like twenty two months before we got when no findings we're talking about a very important and sacred site here and i have no problem spending fifty thousand dollars to protect the work that's being done through the past because once those pins are moved it's not the pins that are causing us the challenge it's the fact that we've got to go and redo the survey even back when we did a survey in  so wait my twenty years is way off in like twenty five years but even back in one thousand nine hundred two when we identify and the plots to dig up to do the survey one of the focuses was to try to find the edge of the island and i believe there are at least two maybe three spots where they were focused on the island itself on the edge of the island and all three were dead on you know we found the rocks that are that made up the edge of the island so to mr homos point if we're not going to protect this site by putting a security fence around the work that the going to entail then we're not doing our job and i don't think we can look to you know we didn't look to the friends of to fund a mass which i believe is about two hundred thousand and to me this is simply a critical piece to make sure that we're going to continue with yes yes is an absolutely critical piece to move this project forward and i just i have no problem i don't have any questions from a stone on the questions for the archaeologist because i think this is this is a process of been going on a long long time i'm very comfortable with the fact that if we're going to be digging things up in that area which is very sacred then we darn well better put a fence around  not you know if we were to call on security companies to watch over it instead of putting a fence it would cost us way more than fifty thousand dollars so it is a reasonable request and it's one that we need to move forward on thank proper priority at the expense and so if we're dealing with redoing a survey which would cause more expense to me that's logical to put up a fencing but for theft of just pins then it doesn't make sense but i do think chair and wait for the clarification if that is in fact true that because of the theft of pens or other disturbances a new survey would have to be done kinds of stuff and you know the bottom line is we can't be leaving those those items open for people to come in and take it's just it's part of our history tourists have gone in there and we've had recently an incident where they were taking things out unbeknownst to them but they were so i'm all for and i will support this this fifty thousand dollars for the fence but it's  twenty five thirty years it's been a long time in coming in and i've sat here listening to all of the discussion and i wait for your recommendation which the chair but i fully concur it's time to move to protect this vital area and there is and people trampoline through with them there's existing fencing but yet they can still get around and go through and whatever how are we truly going to prevent people who are just intent on vandalising and disruption of the site because eight foot chainlink people can climb over that you know i don't know why people are but it can occur so my question chair and especially the gates i mean you know i'm sure they'll have locks on  you know especially referencing the one you mentioned that's going to go between the church and the grounds so just how it's going to deter people from going in or  and access would be provided to the persons or entities that need access it's just a given a governess chainlink fence and it's six foot we considered five tall but we felt that the difference between five and six to six would would deter the people from climbing over more than the five foot would so we went with the six foot fence and it's not going to it does not have barbed wire or anything on the top i think some of the people who are on there maybe not don't like council member that do you know said don't even realize what they're disturbing but i think the fence will help put up presence of the site should not be entered into because it will be completely secured ok thank you but people are digging are they digging for the supposed artifacts or the digging for bottles because it was you know kind of a dump fill site but things of that nature are currying i've seen it and it's you know cool iana of the entity to make sure that those things are actually covered also just you know liability purposes but also it just left pits on nope you know opened up like that but  i'm really very much in support of the fence i think that we need to do everything we can to protect historical artifacts if we can and you know it's funny but there seems to be something going on as i was watching the news this morning on channel four they were commenting on the rise in property crimes and in vandalism and those kinds of things and we're seeing that here too you know i have a home in a neighborhood that's been there over forty years never known to have theft or vandalism and in the past few months we've had a whole bunch of vehicles being stolen and homes being broken and entered into and so i think yes we can you know we can monitor each other but i don't know what is going on and is it because of homelessness is it because of people needing stuff or drug or whatever it is but we seem to have this kind of a lack of respect for other people's things so i think as county has invested very heavily in this historic situation we might as well go the whole with and protect the real thing which is the possible disturbing of something important so i'll be supporting thank you  we say that but we seem to always never go to prosecution so i'm just saying there's expectations from this body we're going to enforcement and follow through for the native culture and yet the potential acts of desecration it doesn't run in the same direction means nothing because this no follow through ramification if you don't follow either the practice of law or something so i have no problem with point for august i will prosecute this extent because you're not stealing from from the whole community you seen from a culture that is worse i have low tolerance adjustments i'm not going to wait another twenty three years to continue to not see things happening that project site with the people's money so with that i will recommend moving this bill for an ordinance forward to the full council for consideration at the option so i will entertain a motion now for a bill for an ordinance i mean the in the fiscal year two thousand and fifteen budget for the county of my we as it pertains to estimated revenues less my we community plant area parks and recreation ecosystem restoration project total kepler improvement project appropriations and total appropriations ordered will move on is there any requests regarding the final one on the c a p report is there any the apartment or representatives you fulfill to put on notice so that when we bring it up we can have those people benefits by increasing care or savings in the highway fund by six hundred twenty thousand amending department of finance county way costs is increasing in fringe benefits one point four five million the creasing fringe benefit reimbursements one point four five million i mean the in section three point b point one five point he department of public works i would add ministration program highway fund one increasing contribution to general fund employee retirement system and federal insurance contributions act of fica through three hundred thirty thousand increase in contribution to general  two hundred ninety thousand for amending section three point b point one seven point b department of water supply department through all the expenses water fund increasing contributing to a general fund employee benefits eight hundred thirty thousand and amending section three point b point one seven point c decreasing department of water supply water operations water fund eight hundred and thirty seven we also have a those miscalculation which is highway funds and water funds to go to the friends benefits county wide in the department of finance i in the department of finance minister those  and department of water supply i know you have the department of water supply here but they were not included in the calculation of this it was in the budget office that had the miscalculation that's in effect so i would fringe benefit cost for public works in the same same division that were for transfer in the funds for making the adjustment to trying to get a sense of how how far off we were never had a chance to go back and look at the number so you want to know how much we budgeted just a way i just want to get a says six hundred twenty thousand is that a ten percent miscalculation or twenty percent or what what was originally budgeted for friends in this department ok so the six hundred twenty is five percent of highway fund fringe benefit yes request is for six hundred twenty thousand dollars that's like more than sixty five sixty percent off so they budgeted for i guess sixty sixty seven percent of what is actually needed yes i'm just wondering how we how we can be that far off on and again that brings up the question of what's the what's the amount of miscalculation on the one that we're having to put in one point four five million budget amendments for the current fiscal yea because i get some i'm disturbed by what they're basing the new budget on ensuring me numbers in what they're asking us to do today and month on monday of and so we will be a bear kwara for a while members and we'll do the best we can best we can so we're going to take a short recess and we'll be back at ten thirty members reconvene the budget and finance committee meeting we are on b f thirty four which is a proposed budget amendment to the fiscal year two thousand and fifteen budget regarding play fringe benefits for the department of finance public works and water supply mr white so you have a question i did get the numbers  and it looks like the increase in the department of water supply was eight hundred thirty thousand dollars or a six sixteen percent increase in public works the calculation amounts to about a thirty five percent increase over what was budgeted so it's just it's you know concerning because those should be the things that are relatively straightforward calculations and  makes me a little concerned that we may have some similar miscalculations in our upcoming budget but we'll have to wait and see he it's a really busy time during that transition so again i still very very confident that our staff at the bike office they do i think we all have a lot of confidence in that stuff know again chair of the the difference is much larger than the difference between the fringe benefit multiplier that we were using in two thousand and fourteen versus two thousand and fifteen his team to ensure that the appropriate numbers are before us for consideration chair whites would you i would appreciate it if the department could take a look at what is what the main cost drivers are in the in the increases is that is that health care you know fica is is pretty set i mean it's going to be whatever the normal fica percentage has been and it's going to go up a little bit because the wage increases but certainly not by twenty eight percent i think would be important for us  as we're moving into our budget that we have a sense of where those costs are being driven by what the costs are being driven by whether it's increased health care costs or increase of some other  a miscalculation what is i know that you may be privy to the information but i am not so i i would like to know how this occurred specifically it's such a great if we can argue for twenty minutes about fifty thousand for offense i definitely need to know what happened in this miscalculation for this amount of money that sh actual twenty thirteen fiscal year act well twenty thirteen salaries it wasn't based on what we proposed when i was in the budget office i when we calculate the friend just we base it on the the appropriation will be wrong so if we if we use twenty thirty in october it's a little bit less or done propose most of the time in the way we budget that was twenty thirty and we are now in instead of what we propose seeing as it was a little bit more then the result would be short so again i was a privileged everybody think it is that the budgets calculation but that's what i'm calculate the france benefits mystic chair is based on what we are proposing and that's the normal thing so on this particular area it was based on the actual twenty thirteen because we know what's the actual then  proposal is just an estimate ok so again i don't think there is any other ways just the way the assumption was made and that's the result of the shortage misplaced i totally understand the process used to do this job trying to do budgets and figuring out fringe benefits sadly you know it was an error i think it'll be who have us as we look at the upcoming proposals to make sure that they are correct and i agree with you that this is not the kind of big areas we want to make but it happened in my understanding is we don't have a choice we've got to pay so here we are we've got to make the salaries from two thousand and thirteen to fourteen two to account for the sixteen percent the twenty eight percent and kuma what the other one was thirty thirty three thirty five percent  with zero is no basis for the if you chop operation kill everybody starts with zero with me and they have to justify your breed dollar the on there is no such thing as last year is the base last year has no existence to this  perform i'll punish it perform will get more attention and more resources on performance is a new sheriff in town  if there's no other question the chair you know i'm not the happiest guy made my sentiments known to the rector and mr abbas but we are in a place where we need to get certain things squared away so i will entertain a motion to move forward the bill for an ordinance demand the two thousand and fifteen year budget as regards to department of finance public works and water mister director i would just say that when he goes to counsel you may want to have the appropriate departments you know billable shoot at the council meeting members are not present today if they have let me please now direct you to the f thirty five this is regarding debt service again in their request to amend the fiscal year two thousand and fifteen budget department of environmental management department of finance department of parks and recreation department of public works and department of water supply and the purpose of this bill  man the current year's budget to appropriate additional funding to the county's debt service by the following why and i meant section two estimated revenues by increasing interest and transfers three point two three seven point seven four is there a million and increasing carry over savings in one general fund two point nine seven seven three nine six million eco fun twenty nine i was in for a zero eight amending section three point b point three point b under the department of environmental management wastewater and ministration program environmental management's all the ways in ministration program solid waste management by increasing debt service six hundred eighty three thousand one hundred eighty two for a man the in section three point b point b point one zero point g department of parks and recreation away whole golf course program called fun by increasing debt service by twenty nine thousand four years or eight amending section three point  point one seven point b department of water supply departmental expenses water fund by increasing debt service one hundred fifty thousand dollars and i'm ending section three point b point one seven point six principal interest payment due june first two thousand and fifteen as and for the two thousand and fourteen issuance we also have a certification of additional revenues dated march thirteenth for appropriation are additional appropriation of six million two hundred and fifteen thousand one hundred thirty six mr chair as i have intimated to you in our meeting  savings that we have and it was a little bit too late in my part to come to you and ask for those because that deliberation was already on going to come in ask for  us about six hundred correction it was sixty eight million bond sales and we got a premium of about almost seven million premium so the we can get it in a timely manner mr chair i will answer any questions that you might have thank you very much mr white christians for the director get i should say yeah so that date that that when we made i made that decision those try to say two hundred thousand i know i know then that i will have the common ask for this debt service sickly i mean you know it's is a little bit requests members my disappointment is when we had already made the first payment when you know we should have been ready for this amendment response any questions on this mr white thank you not a question but just a comment that i would i would agree with you that this is you know if we knew back in and june or july when the was finalized that this payment was going to be moved ups into this fiscal year we could have been advised considerably earlier than march thirteenth i would agree proposal is to amend the budget by increasing carry over see remains in the general fund by two point zero one eight five zero six eight million amending section three point b point five department of  public safety by a crease seen in ministration maintenance program by three hundred fifty nine thousand and three seventy four dollars b fire rescue operation program one point seven nine nine six five two million dollars in fire prevention program for twenty six thousand and forty two additional funds will be used to cover the projected short and salary premium operations and also in campaign is a certification of additional revenues dated february nineteenth for two point one eight five zero six eight million in carry over savings requests in f y fifteen's budget and we have come to that point where we need the funding to get us to the end of june thirtieth of this year know i'd be happy to answer any questions specifically to the numbers that have been presented to you thank you very much i misplace any questions at this time and trying to remember when we were in budget and i know there was a lot of discussion about the fire department the fire department request and i remember clearly us instructing them that if they were it ran into trouble because we had concerns about the requests that they needed to come back for a budget amendment so i'm assuming that's why we're here today and if anybody can break this down a little bit more for us and tell us a little bit more about exactly you know what these needs are i'm ready to listen ninety percentile is for the salaries and we have one of those numbers that is in there is for our maintenance program which is for the maintenance of all of our vehicles the response apparatus and once it was awarded that's where we ended up and this were close to our projections really close so unlike some of the things we looked at for the year these were anticipated but we reduced it yes they were ok thank you chair thank you miss cochran thank you and i guess just following up on ms bases you stating that yes it was meant to subpoena did but yet we're just receiving it today so i mean if not have come to us sooner earlier yes our request to budget office was that that we were anticipating this it was looking that way and we have to wait for today we've i've requested information from the department on a number of financial questions and requests was made march sixth and i haven't received a response yet so i'm sure i'll be receiving it soon but i'm not ready to take action on this measure until after i had a chance to take a closer look at that i think that the reason i'm concerned is that as we all know and we discussed in last year 's budget the there's a significant amount of overtime in premium pay that drives personnel costs in this department and the increase that was established for the department in the last in the last contract and this is just a rough figure and just take the total contract  increase and divided by the number of people and hartman it shows that the increases for the fire department well exceed increases for the police department and as we all know we have a very difficult time filling positions in the police department and retaining officers where as in the fire department we have you know fourteen hundred people show up for you know a small number of openings twelve to fifteen or whatever the number might be so that you know to me this this is a there's a larger question here of managing resources and how we how we deal with contract  requirements and how we schedule our existing personnel in a way that we can we can make the best use of the resources and you know we all appreciate the work that the department does i think they do a great job and they do a lot of wonderful service but they've also include they've also enjoyed significantly higher increases over the last  four or five years and the other bargaining units by quite a margin and so you know for me while the fire department is very important and critical to our safety  sort of the guys that work in the water department because we all depend on the on the free flowing of water so are the guys in public works when we have a problem with our roadways and and drainage ditches and flooding and so on so it's difficult for me to make a decision on this request because it's a significant amount of money and you add this to the other requests we're dealing with today and we're at a point of about thirteen million dollars and so you know with all due respect to the department i'm i'm just not ready to support this request until i've had a chance to take a closer look at their numbers when i get them thank you very much salary driven except for section two of five words has provided that fifty thousand shall be for the hazard incident management team other than that everything administration maintenance program number two all right that would be item number two on i don't five fice credit to five eight eight two yeah that was the money that was provided for our all hazards incident management team  to to provide training and response in natural disasters or what have you so this this fifty thousand was the in your original those i guess they have a nexus with your bargaining agreements saluki yes and those are requirements that should have required us to increase right those are all arbitrated requirements all right thank you for the opportunity have a wonderful day thank you so bring up b f twenty three this is also another amendment to for the fiscal year two thousand and fifteen budget department of environmental management some of the waste management fund management fund by seven hundred seven zero zero zero two nine dollars i mean the section three point b point three point d as in dog bites man over environmental management solid waste and ministration program sell their waste management fund by increasing appropriations by one hundred three four years or zero dollars increasing the equivalent person now e p by one point nine dollars increasing e p a by three point zero amending section three point b point four point f department of finance county away costs by increasing appropriations for fringe  benefits by one hundred three four years or eight dollars decreasing that probation for fringe benefit reimbursements for the one thousand and seven five one dollars in decreasing the appropriation for overhead reimbursements by two nine dollars in carry over savings from the solid waste management fund also have correspondence from the budget director dated march eighteenth where he gives us a revised proposed bill and is one delete request for e p one estimated revenues from other sources laid waste management fund there in the or under this source of one point five two to one five four million dollars but the budget the rector gave me a short briefing about this request mr chair and i will bring anything that ministration unser to the budget director when he's able to come  through the year and shortly after the fiscal year started which is why we had to try to curtail services to try to save budget we are at a point where we will run out of monies before the end of the year which is why chip had testified because we i am meeting with him later on today about the potential ramifications should we not  thank you chair and thank you council members yeah i will keep it brief as well in general this is very consistent with what we've discussed with counsel and for fifteen budget deliberation phase as well as in the various documents that we gave counsel throughout the budget deliberations and various requests for information in general we have in the division have had a number of historical noncompliance areas that we've had to address over the years and have been identified over the past couple of years with an internal division audit and with that we submitted our a five fifteen budget in general what we got approved for the budget versus what we requested is basically what we're coming before you today to request to make it through the year without having to face  offs of our staff we have evaluated every option that we have before us to make other cuts that we're addressing any areas of noncompliance that we could cut and we've done so at this point we're down to it probably about mid may to beginning of june at some point is when we're going to run out of money so yeah we're before you today to basically ask for approval for this supplemental budget we did make some adjustments from the december eighth so middle as requested by the budget chair so that's the version that you have before you today so yeah like khaled said we're willing to answer any questions and be transparent as much as we can be with you if you have additional questions for detail what's being handed out to you now we don't have to go over you can read your leisure but i can of just give a quick summary of the one of the documents is the division mission statement and i'll just read it for you right now to provide public health safety and environmental protection of maui counties air land and water  effective and sustainable solid waste management practices resources and a team of dedicated and empowered employees below that is our priorities that we have in the division so this is how we make our decisions day to day number one is safety number two is regulatory compliance and environmental protection number three is resource management efficiency and building sustainability and number four is non safety non compliant related services and programs this is how we make our choices and decisions day to day basically with our budget that we have right now and where we are in fiscal year we're focusing on one in two items and what we're hoping to do is build long term sustainability with the f fifteen budget in with her if we sixteen budget and moving forward so that's that's our goal that's our mission there and that's how we make our choices day to day there may have  confusion or misunderstanding between administration and potentially counsel as to what those priorities were it is i know that that was requested from counsel in the past so that's why we provided that today also submitted you today was it's a draft sure does show the actual amount that was reduced from our budget compared to what was requested it is more on the order of probably ten to fifteen percent if you just look at our operations budget itself of what was in the four positions versus what our actual operations budget is and what those cuts and it up requiring us to do in outsourcing also there's a timeline of events for the f one fifteen budget dating back to the beginning of two thousand and fourteen when the department went over what our budget was going to  be so there's various items in there that lead us through the process of responses to counsel for information and presentations that we provided counsel and that brings us up to today's date where we have the meeting  as soon as possible to avoid the layoffs really we have no other choice and nor there are options that we have from the department or division level we have looked at just in cumbering contracts i know that's been asked before about can we just income or monies what is your actual ability to do that and our answer to that is brief it's we've looked at everything we have we have compliance related projects and issues that have been identified that are in process now we cannot stop that midstream and show that we've identified things and not address them  unable to cut any of those projects we can certainly get into more detail if you have about but if they're identified in their compliance related it's not something we can do at the division or department level to make any stoppages of those projects so that's pretty much all they have for starters and of course please look over the information we provided throughout the budget process in making the decision  but we're confident that it is justified and is needed and we've looked at other avenues for cuts and we have none so this is what we're down to at this point thank you this basically any questions for bit more questions than answers it's a pleasure but you know it seems like i've been hearing about this business of we're running out of money we're not going to have money for quite a while now and surprising that we're here at the end of march but this is where we are you know earlier we had the problem with the landfill closings and people not having their rubbish picked up and whatever and we kind of got through that with a gentleman shake of the hand you know let's keep going and in good faith let's work this out and so it's a spirit in which i'm here chair and i know it's not an easy situation i think we have to look carefully at both sides but my concern is the impact on the customers because i don't like being stopped were very go and people say well you know many people in my rubbish or how come you guys are doing this or that and so i am here to learn a little bit more about you know both sides of this and it's frightening to me there we're actually talking about layoffs because if we lay people of that's not going to make it any better it's going get worse obviously and so this seems to me like you know it's we've it's fish or cut bait time so i don't know how much more information we need to gather i don't know if but it has everything you need you know apparently he's asked for a lot of things in you know in relation to the other items on the agenda i don't know if he has them all and like everybody else i read the news we get stopped along the way and ask questions and we hear all kinds of things but i think now is the time for us to get to the heart of the matter and here here the truth so we can make a good decision thank you  the management of that area further not a lot of these places utilizing public works people their manpower but no we don't have any public works staff working in our landfills at all we do have highways department collecting refuse in hama and  whatsoever is being supplemented by public works ok and so as in equipment operators and people you're not utilizing public work services part part of the reason why we don't utilize public works equipment operators is the unique nature of the job for compact being in and operating at a landfill so it's quite specialized to have someone just come over every once in a while we found it more problematic and concerned we were concerned about safety so that's why we close  projections for closure and partial closers to become much less than they are on this chart here one of the positions that was granted by a council we had two out of the six one of them we you know within the next weeks or months the molokai partial closure should should not be one hundred percent not happening but it will decrease much more than what's on this chart however the  honorable and landfills will still be short that dedicated operators so those are two of the key positions that we do still need project we may have more than one ca there are you referring to the waste conversion project there were energy that was approved in last year's budget for a one million eighty thousand dollars in cash engineering manager so he wears a lot of hats right now but i believe one of them is done or close to being done and then to close the we have the almost done with the design part of it in which case we go services or other items but leave those part of the winter and project some of that how much was spent on professional services versus materials have to go back and look i don't have that top of my head but heart is spent on professional services right if it's part of the structure part of it meaning the c q a or the construction quality assurance part of it then yeah that's that's the only time but normally we have our design contracts or some of our design contracts i should say outside from operations budget depends on what project is ok and what's the status on the transfer station project so that is one of them that's we have a contract out just got encumbered about a month ago and so they're doing their background getting their collection of background information at this point what is that contract going to come down we haven't seen it yet and the believe we've seen it you know i'm not sure if i got the check with the other engineer but i thought that was already income or really close i mean a convert if it hasn't been ok and what's the status of the landfill berm project so the consulting engineer are still working on a report that we're going to take the department of health as basically at their opinion or support what we're would like to do and then once we get that approval then that money is for the actual implementation of whichever plan we choose or ok so the hundred twenty thousand dollars worth of consulting services a professional services don't those numbers normally come out of the cia request yes but this was something that had been identified ok but you haven't accessed any of the seven hundred fifty thousand at this point correct and they're not going to are going to spend that all before the end of the year probably not all of it  we're going to probably begin to do it and that's why we actually took out some money that we were going to propose in this year's budget or f a a sixteen's budget actually took that out because of the timing of what's happening right now ok but those those are so the hundred twenty thousand you're requesting from the heart of land or hahn a landfill berm project could or should have come out of the seven hundred fifty thousand and you would need to request monies under this new proposal for this budget amendment correct because because the as you are you know you've already got seven hundred fifty thousand dollars and the money can be used for professional services right my understanding and maybe somebody from finance or budget could answer this but my understanding is if we start to contract out of operations money that you have to continue doing then you can actually have a contract that has both operations and  p money on the same contract can somebody help us understand that when we've got seven hundred fifty thousand dollars assigned to a project why would it be started under operations as opposed to undersea ip as it was authorized and and aren't you using up available funds that can be put to other uses like salaries and wages and keeping everything open if you simply assign the monies to the seven hundred fifty that's already been allocated so again this is something that we had identified last fiscal year and needed  we felt we needed to get this done right away or as soon as possible and so that's why we had started it in f y fourteen s operations budget and you asked for c r p monies does that mean that you're going to have to do this whole project then in with operations money and you can't touch the seven hundred fifty just of the zine part of a consultation part of it so using the consultant yes that's my understanding but the seven fifty was actually proceeding with  the point i'm trying to make is that we've got a request for professional services for a project that we've already authorized seven hundred fifty thousand dollars for so in my view that hundred twenty thousand could very well of been contracted differently and charged to the c i p as opposed to taking out of operating funds that then shorts them with respect to being able to pay salaries and wages of the people that are operating the landfills and and other areas and these are cash projects not see ip so we have my calculation is seven hundred fifty thousand for the on a landfill remainder eight hundred fifty thousand for the central miami landfill improvements and one hundred fifty thousand which they say now has been been encumbered or contracted but not all these monies are going to be spent in this fiscal year so i'm i'm a little concerned that we've got all this cash sitting here only about one million seven hundred fifty thousand dollars that can be used and transferred to operations through resolution not a budget amendment the next question i have is in regards to the encumbrances and you mentioned that you can't change those because you would have to cancel contracts or you'd be putting yourself in in a lack of compliance but one of the contracts that you've been cumber and is for the convenience center and the convenience center is something that the council put back in after you guys took it out of the budget and you didn't agree with it but now you've uncovered it when in fact that could have been postponed if you were concerned about running out of money so again my concern is they have the they have money but they have begun encumbering them i look back at the  and carry over in conferences and those are for contracts that continue to you know to take care of services and so forth but what was what was in my mind a critical thing is that the incumbrances that we have now accumulated and and just so that people understand when you encumber money is not available to pay for other things and this year's encumberances if i take out the equipment because equipment is there was very little equipment in last year's budget is less than two million and this year's budget adjusting out the equipment for both years incumbrances at this point last year three point one million dollars so those are the commitments for future services and and goods to operate the landfill right now we have encumbered four point eight five million so that's a million seven hundred fifty thousand higher income rinses than we had at this point last year the chair my my concern is that you know we've we've been through this shutting down the landfill cutting off services and many of us feel it was all b s it was done for political reasons it was not done for budgetary needs because we gave them all but one hundred forty thousand dollars of a sixteen million dollar budget that's ninety nine percent of what they were what they had  requested so i'll be happy to look for through the stuff they've given us today i wish i got it a little earlier but again we have the cash in the projects that could be shifted have cash in roughly one hundred one point seven five million encumberances so we have two hundred thousand on the convenience center the incumbrances at central landfill for cover and other things of that sort are five hundred thousand dollars higher than they were last year the incumbrances four hundred and fills three hundred fifty thousand dollars higher than last year landfill one hundred fifty thousand dollars higher than last year we have a couple of contracts that i won't name the company but we have a couple of contracts that total two hundred eighty thousand dollars that were for the same first companies had contracts entered into in two thousand and twelve and two thousand and thirteen that one took about about almost a three year period to spend a total of about two hundred thousand other took about a year and a half to spend i came around the around one hundred twenty thousand dollars in those same two companies have brand new contracts that were encumbered well after they knew that they were short of money so my question is if you got two hundred a thousand dollar contract here you got a two hundred thousand dollar contract for the convenience center if you were really concerned about keeping services operating you could have held off on any one of those and made up a significant amount of the money that they're asking for today and i my sense is that there is more than enough money in encumberances there are four items that would have no impact on service of between now and the end of the year there's more than enough money there to pay for all the people that are working on our landfill and working on our refuse collection division and completely avoid layoffs without without shorting anything else and you know as you and i have discussed this is you know i actually hate to say it but this department is the department i have the highest respect for in my first term and since then it has now become one of the departments in whom i have the least amount of trust and least credibility and it may not be there they're entirely it may be they've been driven by the administration to make the calls they've made pots of money that i believe they can access and so i would i would like them to take a look at each of the items of encumbrance and explain why they can't come or some of those funds and and explain why they encumbered funds after august first knowing that they were telling us that they were going to be short of funds so if you're if you say you're going to be short of funds then you have the flexibility to encumber monies necessary to get you to the end of the year not and you can save money by not allowing those kind beyond the end of the fiscal year so i'm i look forward to working through this but i'm really kind of tired of the games th as a council pass through on the status of that if you're aware of the status chair i do believe that a proposal for a response by interested parties to the audit receive by gene for next door we secured office space and well street location for our diversion recycling amban and vehicle staff that freed up a few extra officers for actual staff that budget we have i know that my wee redevelopment agency a project where look i'm in a simple parking lot three hundred fifty thousand dollars is very interested in moving that project and the administration or mayor has regarding approval of projects versus each in sea authority itself i'm interested in this project i think it's critical to move forward and i'm going pursue this project and i'm just being upfront with everybody is to the welfare of this community and so for me it is a top priority with no if further business members