all right our next case is twenty dashed well fifty nine st george versus city at lakewood and before we get started we appreciate see you on support of these types of efforts to  provide representation out there mr christian in particular appreciate that we've had cases from your clinic in the last year or so so again i compliment your on your ability to put the program together and as i understand  park at that point mr st george might have known that there was a citizen police encounter there investigating a reported crime the officers under under bill graham and and larson right well you know whether whether he was whether he thought it was a you know again after him or you know people associated  they were worried and frightened in the middle of the night in the middle of the night that these individuals are writing on their personal property were connected with the incident that occurred earlier in the evening and in fact the  me ask you a couple of questions i just want to make sure i get to mentors are important facts and i haven't been able to discern what they are and the record of looked at the exhibit it looks like a duplex as he came out around what the shotgun when he had gone behind the truck threats to the officer and here too we see no verbal threats rather what we have is mr st george sitting in his right that residence drinking a glass of wine scrolling on the internet after you just went to dinner we know that officers have arrived on scene and we know that they have been there for over two hours trying to corroborate the good knish really reported crime but they have won no exigent circumstances and to no probable cause because after their independent investigation they interview witnesses and witnesses confirms they did not hear gunshots they searched for shell casings in the street and they did not fi is whether a reasonable officer on the scene considering the totality of the circumstances would have had probable cause to believe her life was in media danger thereby justifying the use of force remembering that officers reports that she was sexually assaulted and the sailing followed her with a gun and fired two shots one into the air and a nd after is that right i thought it was that she had said there was a less sexual officer placed up phone call reported the plaintiff is upset and settled in paranoid place over his front door looks around doesn't see anyone close the door the complaint does not say that he stepped outside at that time just  you open the door and looked around playing instead of at that point the police turning on their you know lights on the squad car at that point if they turn the lights on the squads are they could have agitated him at a point where he could still jump back inside and obtain a weapon as he did still have a rd phone call they want to remain hidden until he's out sufficiently outside of the apartment that he can't go back inside and on himself was a shocking as it is unfortunately well h and know that there's something on the record about one of the officer saying to grab him they wanted him to come outside so they could grab him but they have no basis to grab  this kind of setting i believe they were responding to a domestic violence call but the proper procedure is police should remain hidden for their safety and try to contact the plaintiffs in a neutral manner a telephone calls a neutral manner you don't want to cause the suspect to become more agitated than he already is while you're making contact as unfortunately happened last year two years ago january th seen new year's eve in castle rock where the castle rock police because it's just accepted that that scares were inside the house so you don't want to try to force yourself into their domestic domain their house until you've made a neutral contact with they're trying to do  you from a different perspective it seems to me everything they did was perfect for making plaintiff think that there were some people out there who wanted to get him and were claiming to prepare lease they said over the phone but they wouldn't show their faces do anything when he walked in front even though he didn't have a gun at that time there would be no danger in showing up at that point if he didn't darted back in the house might get a gun then perhaps they should i do again but i know we're not supposed to look at the subject of state of mind of the plaintiff and maybe we can't even base liability and claim that the officers but we can say that a reasonable officer would appreciate what they had been doing what the person in the house would likely be thinking at that point so my bottom line is what do you think the officers should have thought the person in the house would be thinking after the officers behavior calling saying come out and then not a den a find themselves when he opens the door and shows context but my question is what should the officers have thought was going on and whether well what the officer did a person in the house would be getting very paranoid about who's outside  ok let me point out part of your question i think hinges on the allegation that when the police called on the play of answer the phone call and the police say this is plain if you in the complaint says the caller the police and say someone is outside impersonating the police and threatening me with that but they're threatening that he's scared of them you think there's trouble outside and then they suggest that i am because obviously he's in a little bit of a state coming in we're coming in the plane is thought somebody is coming inside the house the place here never said we're coming in they said please come outside with nothing in your hands in response plaintiff says i how something in my hands which in context is a threat he's taunting the police and then up the next phone call he does come outside armed with a shotgun the police said come outside with nothing your hand instead he comes out arm with a shotgun a very deadly probable cause is not an element that excessive force claim under any law and the st man factor focus on the severity of the crime at issue it doesn't say there's a very the crime for which you have of a cause to make an arrest you just need reasonable grounds to suspect a crime was committed they had reasonable grounds based on the nine hundred and eleven call and the crimes that were issued back to there for example after a very severe crimes including attempted murder so the police have reasonable grounds to suspect attempted murder at the time they begin their investigation that all changes when after players is asked to come outside with nothing in his hands he comes out armed with the shotgun pumps the action the shotgun and then goes on the hunt at that point up a to trigger begins to have reasonable grounds to fear for our own safety and that fear increases as he walks closer and closer to the pickup truck the point where agent timothy hear his footsteps on the gravel she  it's live loaded and i can use it and report is you already tried using a gun against the escort earlier in the evening the police are investigating a serious crime and the man has now escalated the thing the situation a coming outside armed with a shotgun like to focus on the element of danger st there was no danger when the officers arrived on the scene i point you to page one hundred and eighty four paragraph sixteen five when the officers a bit there was no imminent threat to themselves turning instead to the he laid on his weapon immediately in fact hired to that he called the police after he'd been shot because he continued to believe that it was a police officers arriving at that store it was people coming to exact revenge because the officers practice he created the circumstances were