nt i would suggest calling it the mac or some other creative name for that room the multi generational activity center so for whatever it's worth i think that that might be attractive to more people in the community i think that as a senior center there are going to be a lot of hours when it's not used and we might as well market the fact that i mean i heard  holly reese and jennifer copeland and jennifer marie all talk about other uses for that facility so let's give it a name that's kind of catchy it doesn't have to be the mac it's just that i thought as i listened to them and somebody talked about multigenerational activities in there i thought ok well let's come forward suggest a mac you all can come up with something more creative but at least it's a concept and i think it might have broader interest to the conversation about that but i did not get the sense that anybody was sort of jumping on that concept so i thought i may come forward in actually multi generational activity center is not bad might be too much of a mouthful maybe sober work to be some center  besides our trust through the local press here judy kurtz so we're going to go on to number five announcements and deputy city managers and that will be with him  he also took a tour of the airport parkway wastewater treatment plant in this part of the clean water day in vermont and was absolutely amazed at the complexity of that system and  professionalism of the people that minister and minister to it also was amazed how by the day i could not get the smell out of my nose i think it was about here but once i take a shower it was ok that was really h wait all day long thinking that i just smelled like you know they have this room called the stink room where it comes in fresh off the pipe and they really screen it remove the you know the things that can't be tested and so that was pretty it was but it's you  you know but i don't know how long they closed down the plant that concerned me because i think it stayed down for too long because they have to separate everything you know they also notified everybody they're closing the  e hours of their staff to deal with sorting through stuff and throwing away things that shouldn't be there and you know what it takes to monitor activity there sometimes people would hang out there that probably shouldn't hang out there so this was this was on the o have my daughter clear on her room before september then reading about some serious stuff but i just watched the meeting and i just wanted to share with you i know we'll have a chance in august but since we've heard from off your  a time can i ask you because i know you put out the call for donations to the firefighters dinner you still accepting them did away maybe i would think it wasn't that good because i i always need a reminder so i should  environmental woes and i just want to chime in a little bit with regard to the soviet spaces as we look at prioritizing you know what we want to spend taxpayer money on and i really think that any investment in the future has to be an investment in our environmental health and i mean we can all say it's pointless but i think if we all do then it truly will be the end of our human species so i just i think that's something that i would add in addition to what i had said earlier about just having a building that you  know what i would say and i like this building quite a lot but i think to ask people to spend millions of dollars on a building just like this building we should stay here and we should build a nice library so i think that if we're going to you know go ahead with a plan to invest in a building and ask people for you know millions of dollars that we should really make it a building that is very special and environmentally responsible  those those two cents two weeks later or three weeks later and i think that that's basically all i have to say myself so we're going to leave it up to the  right to me so you received a memo from me about special meetings for and next week we've given judea a heads up as well so we're scheduled for a monday night meeting its third at six thirty here  this is all about facilities in city center and focus on so blue spaces twenty twenty and then wednesday at five thirty and the reason we're starting earlier is because the grand opening of city center car is from four to five that day so we figured we'd go there for those of you who can make it come back and have a quick dinner upstairs and then come downstairs for a five thirty meeting on wednesday they'll be a continuation of the monday night discussion till we're finished i prepared for monday the twentieth which is will be the next regular meeting team i'd say as soon this week as we can get them out to you in a packet ready to go we'll get them to you ok and any update on the snyder braverman and concerns about update i know justin's out this week as well so i'm not sure if that group is meeting or not but we should make sure that somebody has an update for monday ok for you  if so i told charlie we'd let them know i think we have at least one extra meeting that we can have televised would you like them both well barton she's welcome to practice on cue right she prefers to use more than one color has he been a charge for fiscal year he teen so we're trying to get that resolved i know that i think kevin announced we received a grant and i think he's met with the group to inform them that we have  yes i mean the public probably would like to know so special to me or anything else from anybody all right so we have a consent agenda here with disbursements and lots of minutes for i don't personally check what goes into that i don't know if there are changes that people had suggested i know what changes i suggested but i don't know if they ever time you suggested any changes or you made any changes that you would have wanted determine so the may twenty first minutes were unchanged just having a page through them the june fourth minutes were unchanged june fourth and june eleventh looks like that and i think that's what you said and i never say anything less is a substantive change because i learned long ago as secretary of the dorset park skating association for twenty years yeah we have country pension advisory board meeting and i missed the first one which was like the day after it was a one to the good to be able to attend this one the highlights are that you know th fees we talked about the expected rate of return and decided just to leave that alone for now and we also discussed the possibility of putting out a bid for that service for you know that the actual management of is here our director or you can imagine there are more disputes when it's warm out that not follow a trend there's more stuff happening like at the mall evolving a perspective that's just about repairing harm to heavy cream play so it's becoming more proactive settings or communities so it's getting much more and currently we have eight programs there are three staff around twenty volunteers and about maybe seven or  eight contractors to make this all happen and so what i would do is just give an update program by program and where we are and some of these there are some very new things going on so the one that we're most known for is that are started just as panels  around them longest even if it predates the official starting of the commute justice center which was in april two thousand and eleven is when we started so our first full year of data was fiscal year two thousand and twelve and we average around one hundred sixty eight cases a year they're mostly referred directly from the police department or the state's attorney's office instead of going to court we also do some cases that have been to court have been convicted and are in addition to goin court we're noticing a trend that cases are decreasing over time and that is holding up for other community centers and shit in county as well we have lots of questions why but only really speculation at this point  jazz is crime in general decreasing is it working and it's actually there are fewer people because there it does reduce recidivism so are people like they learn and they don't come back we don't know  system i think you learned i actually haven't asked me how many cases happen at the university mall and at first i was just thinking retail theft because most of the cases we work with that retail theft so i was just thinking that but then if i looked  actually looked at like how many are at the mall it turns out to be over sixty percent of the cases are at the moment but it ranged much broader some of them are simple assault some of them are check fraud some of the range of cases which much bigger than i was thinking so let's see  if you really are presentation if you need to keep cool i'm just trying to think of can i give you an example of a case that i'm familiar enough to be specific but it's not so familiar that it's identifying information  so a long time ago he was probably ten or eleven at the time and man set a fire in the dumpster where he l d so technically it's a pretty high level crime it's setting fires are said and and so part of the work we did with him is to both attend to like the potential to burn this place down was pretty high like to attend to the potential for harm but also to look with him is there some issues where he might be drawn to lighting fires and is there something that needs to be looked at so it turns out that howard center after we did some research has a program that's particularly for young people who may be drawn to lighting fires connected him with that that program and so he got like ten week therapeutic work to look at what you know what are some of the issues that might be driving this behavior is there anything to be concerned about here the long term we worked with his family his family was having some issues so we look at like both what do you need to do to repair the actual damage in this case there wasn't a lot like it was more the the fear and what could have happened but also then to look at what needs to happen so this never happens again and so with his case it was really doing some work with the family around you know does he have healthy activities to do that are safe and you know how are his relationship with friends and i guess it is really look at like the whole picture of what's going into the situation so that's one example that the panel's community members and mostly word of mouth where people talk to somebody and say this is opportunity to volunteer in the community and it's like you know it's not just saying envelopes like it's you know you actually get to work with people and have a difference in actual people's lives and sometimes we put postings on front porch form and people come to us that way as well there's been the main two strategies yeah and sometimes people just sort of like who are you what do you do and and then they're like oh ok i want to get involved we usually have four volunteers and a staff member  o conflict assistance piece members are really who love we only do like usually around seventy year one year we had twenty which was really unusual and mostly this is noise the vast majority of the time it's people struggling with in a building the noise is traveling or it's or it's it's often neighbors and most of the time these referrals come from the police where somebody is calling in saying hey can you help and the police officer says there's no crime we actually can't do anything and they refer to us and then we reach out and say you know we're not going to decide anything for you but do you want to see what you can figure out with each other and then we u she is a little bit newer programs we just started in two thousand and sixteen and there are two major ways that we work with people coming out of jail and one of them is really long term intensive support with circles of support an accountability so we usually serve only three or four people a year and we have a team of volunteers that meet with that person for the first year they're there out once a week  as a team and then as people are ready to get together one on one so it might be like we both like fishing so we're going to go fishing together so a lot of people especially people who've been in for like five or more years don't know anybody who's not involved in the criminal justice system either socially or so it's a way to connect people with peers people who are functioning in the community a healthy way to have role models and connection in the community  because it's so intensive the department of correction reserves that for people who are the highest risk every offense and try to really make that resource target the people that people are most worried about if they were your friends that the impacts would be big yes the resource navigation is more when people either don't qualify or don't need that level of support but they still need some support somebody to have a like a regular touch tone with that's just somebody you can call and say you know i am struggling at work i'm afraid i'm going to lose my job i just need someone to talk to  r so the kinds of support tend to be sometimes parenting sometimes one young man we're working with who's in college and really struggling with a math course and he's like you know how can i pass this class and can connect me with anybody sometimes you are like i don't have a job right now and i just need some clothes and we have goodwill that you're so some of it's very simple and some of it's a little bit more of a long term and how people get stuff set up sometimes people don't have a social security card don't have their purse or to pick and i can't get my documentation in order so i can get a job like that  we have had struggles getting enough referrals for this work and she asked this past year it's gotten better than we thought in the referrals and it's gotten better because we actually had more capacity than we had of that having this team is when somebody starts to get off track and starts to have behaviors that are stating risk you catch it so much earlier and so the risk of  dramatically because there's that people are isolated and alone and there's a team of people in their lives who catch is the probation officer part of your team you know but there's a policy of no secrets so there's no like anything the volunteers learn the staff person they know that they need to tell the staff person and then when it rises to the well the probation officer also becomes involved so so we have one example of what could be considered a failure because a person didn't make it the whole year i don't consider it a failure because the person was starting to have risky behaviors and we caught it and there was not another person abused as a result and that person is now back and so i actually consider that a success also as well as the people who stay out and stay and don't be offended and step long term with you or just for just one year one year is the commitment  that the offender sign up for like they say if this is voluntary so they say yes i want this and the volunteers commit for a year when things go well often people  stay together longer it's very common so victim services often are connected to our panel cases because we always reach out to whoever is impacted by a them you know how are you doing what do you need do you want to be part of the process and a newer part of this is parallel justice so they're different so the victim services the cases come to us because the offender right now the criminal justice system ties services for victims to where the offender is in the system and so parallel justice attempts to break that and just meet the needs of victims regardless of it and there is in the system for example there's  rated to access those so this it tends to be like it doesn't matter what happens the offender you get services so that justice program really did start up work starting in january through may we knew that money would end in june so we're like r e b has the money to do this start up work started being king out to victims in the end of may in and then in june contacted fifty eight victims and just proactively how are you doing sorry this happened what do you need and and then we had three different funding sources that we thought one would come through to pick up in june none of them did so we have a gap there's a grant that opens in october so we've had to put that program on pause temporarily while we figure out funding in and it's been really great to work with the police office because there's on this because they're so excited to have more to offer victims and more services so i'm excited to pick that back up we have one lead that we're following to see if we can figure out this gap from now till october first so that we can pick that back up quicker  i truly love that program and wanted to get going again and the great is one thing is no matter when it starts back up we've done the groundwork to start up and we can just pick right back up  can use this or i don't want anything and it's like they get to choose what what makes sense for them regardless of which way we work with them when things are finding that the biggest thing that most people need if they need anything is when i need to know somebody cares to i want to tell my story and if it's possible to repair what happened to me and get some reassurance that will never happen to anybody else those are every once in a while somebody will we will we haven't done this quite long enough you have but i did a couple of cases before the official start up and one person came and said you know about to go to court to ask for and it was great to be able to say you know here's some options what do you want you know these are things you cannot ask for and she decided to ask that it get written into the probation agreement that she got to talk to them so they got referred to us for our panel process and then she got to sit down and t with them and explain you know here's what the last year has been like for my family here's the impact that you've had here is like the medical implications of what happened and i got to really say like you have no idea what you caused by this one   somebody has to make a report to the police there has to be probable cause to qualify so it's one of those systems where it depends like can you access that or not and as we develop appellate justice program we a five hundred dollar deductible and that hits the back down unless somebody helps  of practice in schools is also a newer piece of the work they were doing and i work closely with john kiddo who is an independent consultants working in the past three years in her training room at the police department we've trained over six hundred or my educators and what it means to us restored practices of going to school context we just had the first training for south burlington educators in this june which is very exciting it was like just a three hour introductory  and then also schoolhouse which is based in south bronx just ahead and check your training and because of this work and how much is taking off my position just moved from thirty two hours a week to full time until i won and contracts that schools are with restorative philosophy and the feedback that we're getting is really really positive people coming in expecting people who have had dui distracted driving careless and made mention operation or  excessive speed so any kind of dangerous driving and they expect to be like i think chastise and feel humiliated and instead they have an opportunity to self reflect  justice center so it's more so they operate expression and practice being in community and relationships within that group and they've been doing that for seven or eight years they've published it so they published one book writing from n and the last program is community i like in education this is mostly by request where somebody is like we need convener for a process so it's been like for five years ago that commute justice center partnered with the city council to have a series of conversations on how is opie addition addiction and packing both crime and our community and so we had a series of patients on that in the last two years we've had twice in that period people were like we have to talk and so we can get into a large conversation for that and then a year later came back and had another conversation from what i hear from people there's a lot of interest in doing more regular and deeper conversations across it with people they don't know and people they disagree with and that those annual ones are meeting some need but there's some people who are like i really want to do this in a more regular and deeper way as well and that is part of that part but there's also been some conversations about if this is ever story of community what does that mean what would that look like what would it look like for relationships to be  is how the operates how business operates how profits operate like what would that change for things to come from a relational perspective from the ground up  and so that's been a just a conversation that has started it's very exploratory and what does this mean at this point so those are the overview of the eight really it's not a whole lot happening so when the system of community centers was put in place and when restored a process is started being used for crime in vermont i think there is understandably a little bit of like is going to work like how much risk is involved and so the way the system got put in place is with the lowest level crimes and the research shows it's actually more effective with moderate to higher level crimes where there's more victim impact because it's really the how it helps victims feel settled and healed that is the true power of it so i got put in place in the lower level and so slowly there's more conversation about can this be expanded to be more moderate high level crimes there's currently a task force just got to put in place on the state level to look at can restore good practices play a role in domestic and sexual violence and how would that be done well if that does happen and so i think that had one meeting of this task force that was  requested or approved by the legislature and so it's a very large group of people who are going to look at that question and there's been an ongoing conversation anyway in a more infor know of my things i've talked about where i think blurred really is a very possible crime that could have restored it response particularly if the offenders are juvenile or it's a first time offense the impact on victims is so big that they often don't get their needs met to explain like here's the impact you had on me by doing this and often the offenders not the ones who have made a habit of it over years and years but the ones who like really aren't thinking don't understand how high the impact is from that crime so that's one where i think it could oh that was excellent and i learned a lot and in your short time where do you study in order to be able to do all this my masters is in mediation and people come to it from all kinds of ways some from social work some from  a legal background some from criminal justice so those are the most common everyone's well counseling yeah thank you my one question was how many people go into doing all of this so there's two one eight hour one twenty hour who are like on hold for the moment and then there's three of us who are the core of it so myself the panel coordinator  probably have maybe around twenty five to thirty a team of volunteers who really make it work you know to lisa thank you very much magine this was interesting for the audience i don't know if there are any yet the way the system works is if the crime is completed in our community and people come to south burlington to commit crimes from all over the place i'm particularly at the moment everything  it works we don't have access to the data to do that so we would need funding to hire somebody to actually do that we do know the research that has been done was the university of vermont did an evaluation part of the as panels but just the part of the people who are on probation and this was part of their probation so those are the higher level fences that we work with where i think the recidivism rate is going to be higher in general and so that research showed it  corrections would have to raise through but it depends on if you're using recidivism for another arrest or conviction so that so many of the people we have are never convicted that it becomes a hard thing to track  and there's a little bit of a tricky thing about like you have a fifteen year old you don't necessarily want corrections to know about them so there's there's some a little bit of like data separation and it's also trickier on victims too and you don't necessarily victims of this and want corrections know about them either so yes so there's definitely thought about it but there's some there's some tricky things to figure out yeah yeah yeah but i'm happy to talk more in depth about here's where we've gotten stuck with it well we're very fortunate to have you lisa thank you and all of your team thank you very much and i know  city attorney i'm very thrilled to introduce our new deputy city attorney as you said then and this is kind of an introduction that needs no introduction and has been with us for her been serving the city in some capacity as a as outside counsel for the last eighteen years she has a very in depth with a specialty and planning planning and zoning and land land use regulation she was involved in jam jam golf for a large part of it for a very long time but you know we were absolutely thrilled when it went out to you know looking for someone had no idea that this kind of very pleased to have you on our team team and i think very highly of you i can imagine that i'm not alone and so i'm very just i feel very maybe at ten thirty like a billy joel song transferred to number ten the public information session and the duly warned primary elections that are related to adding one sense of the south burlington municipal tax rate and investing the accumulated funds and bike and you're sitting in good company sitting in good company and a few ok yeah so this is a part of our bonding requirement and it's just public information hearing it so within seven days before the  am right we are all in the public hearing then and did you want to add anything more to what you just want to add if there are any questions about the legal aspect i'm here for that and if there's any questions about the project itself we have by compare committee for the any questions from the public about this particular ballot item the ten years of this tax increase of one penny to be put into a reserve fund to help pay for a bond that will be on the ballot this was engineering as well as the construction not for upkeep and maintenance unless there are some major renovations diverted routes or some new infrastructure that's required and it's really i think part of the city's goal and this council school to you know be a sustainable city and to take cars off the road and i think there's also recreation and healthy bodies healthy minds but commercial safety and to make it much safer for that to happen right that there are paths in the city but because of the way they were developed very generously and very i think  know with some vision to have developments include these paths we need to connect them in order to to make a real network for people to get around so therefore for me i thought this was a bond in itself is investing the accumulated funds so this is a prayer as we accumulate money versus a bond and use the money to pay the bond back now i'm confused yes so are article two talks about incurring the bonded debt for the intice a period revenue so we you shooting to achieve a zero balance reserve and fully paid off the bonnet after the ten year period on the eleventh year whatever it is that when you take the bond out you you believe that whatever the interest rate is you'll ask for the rate because the interest rate when you take it out is going to be something expectation is most of the money like the open space fund will be used in in the short term but the payments will still remain in the long term to pay off what we borrow i think dana probably has list that she'd like to do in the committee than than what will be able to do but this will at least make a nice and it's also intended to leverage grants grant monies federal dollars that would be incoming so would be a way for a project to be ready you know yes for the matching amount sick good a good  mean there are a lot of favorite spots that need attention or just missing links you know so there's a lot of opportunity here and they've all been outlined by compared but i will say i'm glad to see that they're across walks across williston road  that's a really hard road to get across there could be more but i know that already getting these things done will be a big difference in just trying to get one possible fix question thank you no questions all right all is silent tom did you want to ask any questions before we close the public hearing leading our discussion here so this is more of a have been f y r and kind of a heads up we're currently working with the state and have been working with the state for several months now on a what we're calling a companion state has been working and through the clean water clean water state revolving loan fund to identify additional projects that can be done and one of them is a kennedy drive storm water project that's kind of been on the city's radar for a while as a as a high impact project and one of the thoughts was the way the revolving fund typically works is you need because it's a loan fund need to to follow the letter of the law you need to bond for and there needs to be a bond vote for it late in the legislative session last year they the governor signed a bill that basically says that if the project is taken in partnership with a nother project that has been bonded for like the bartlett bay project then it won't you won't need to get separate voter approval for the companion project  and so we're currently awaiting the state confirmation that this and it meets that requirement is the first project that this really come up for so there is some question whether or not it so just in case there may be something  that we're asking you to warn for a new november ballot item at the next at the august twentieth meeting when we come forward with the rest of the ballot articles at that time so there's a probably a small likelihood but wanted you to thank you for inviting us to do this presentation i would first like to acknowledge the recreation and parks committee people and staff who work here if you would  already on the agenda there is a very dedicated group of people who have requested that recreation of parks for them pickle courts they'd like to play pick ball and there is no place to play pickle ball in south burlington and but they are invited to make that request anyway and so what we're going to be looking at tonight is  h means of trying to address these kinds of requests that we simply can't fill because we don't have the facility so i'd like to just start with a power point presentation that has the our mission is to provide opportunities that it has healthy community connections community connections by providing quality active passive recreation space and programs for the community to play a role and learn and our three pillars of recreation are conservation suckle social equity health and wellness and the staff developed the list of values that you see there through a little bit of history and then hopefully to sue the first full time director from the department was hired in seventy one and all during that time there has been no formal programmable indoor space other than this very small exercise space that is located behind the offices for recreation and parks department most of the programming when we can do it is is done in other kinds of facilities where we have to schedule around other people's priorities schools  and other kinds of spaces and that is very limiting in what we can offer to the community so this is a ongoing chronic problem that i've been on this committee for ten eleven years and it's been a goal of of our committee ever since i've been on this to try to address this this longstanding need i would just say that we work in partnership sue one of the goals right up front in the comp lan is to create an affordable and community strong community creating a robust sense of place an opportunity for our residents have visitors and under that provide quality public safety ensures infrastructure health wellness and recreation services and the second part that we excerpted was from the tift district  application the three items that were included in the tip application were build a city hall including a lot of charm build a library including reading and lecture rooms and build a recreation center so all of those have been goals that have been stick accepted by city council and stated in the in the  system like that and certainly during the summer months when it's everyone's time to play and most precious times in a month where we have to have a location inside because the pop up thunderstorms the schools are very limited because they have their own and these are some of the requests that we got for programming people come to us and say they would like these kinds of things and at this point we'd love to be able to offer them but we don't have the facility that would allow these and especially we have a long winter and people like to stay active in the winter not everybody can do winter sports so it would be nice to have so i think that we have talked about these three points at numerous meetings at planning commission and first city council create program and indoor recreation facilities including appropriate office space for department staff expand support staff appropriately to meet the needs of increased indoor space and expand program offerings to better serve the community those are  overriding goals for the the department and the committee  we presented i think it was in june our summary of the n r p a standard it is a comparison of our community with other communities in this country  similar density and just some excerpts from that summary the square footage of operated buildings here at six thousand five hundred fifty square feet is well below at least seventy five percent of respondents and that is program space of all kinds and so we are in the bottom twenty five percent the bottom quarter of what we can offer in terms of indoor space the capital budget for the next five years which includes c i p projections for new facilities south burlington would still be lower than more than fifty percent of other respondents the expenditures per capita at forty two point three four south burlington is lower than almost seventy five percent of respondents and the at the time that we wrote this it was the number of full time employees at oh here we have a very cost effective solution it is a possibility of developing offices for the staff locker night i want to thank heaven and tom for working very hard time could give us a little bit more history on being able to acquire the possibility of acquiring the site for us so thank power point it is the inside so we would be looking on a facility that would support three basketball courts or three sizes of the basketball court by side and we'd really be so our recreation parks committee did adopt a resolution on august first where as the recreation and parks committee has long sought dedicated indoor recreation space for the citizens of our community and whereas the recreation parks committee in the city have engaged in numerous conversations and other methods to gather community wants needs desires and whereas these conversations surveys and requests from citizens over many years have contributed to ideas that have been taken into consideration in the current plans and whereas the recreation and parks committee and the recreation parks director will work diligently with city staff and architects to further develop the current design and plans for a new indoor recreation facility that will contain active recreation space locker rooms and recreation and parks department staff space and whereas this new indoor recreation facility concept supports the recreation and parks department and committee mission to provide opportunities that enhanced healthy community connections by providing quality active passive recreation space and programs for the community to play learn and grow and whereas the recreation and parks committee and department staff are confident that the current design plan is appropriately to sized and designed to support the amenities and programs for a community of our size and makeup and that the space is sufficient and appropriate for the future growth of our community now therefore let it be resolved that the recreation and parks committee endorses the current concept and programatic plan for a new south burlington recreation and parks department indoor recreation facility and we urge the city council to adopt the same and so i will give you this that might be beneficial for the folks that are sitting here probably don't know or may not know how it came to pass that that the champlain oil property is what is is what is falling into place to make this thing a reality we created i'm chair of the recreation foundation and we started that we're still waiting for our five zero one c three that be another few weeks i understand but we created that with the sole purpose initially of raising private money to support this project and supplement any and to funding city money etc so that money from the taxpayers would be nominal at best and then you know we kind of started thinking where might this place go and certainly we wanted it in this city center to district the most advantageous and you can take it from there as to how the champlain oil property has come to pass and  explain just briefly how that happened sure and a lot of conversation still happening with tony and brian cairns and i want to be careful but what i can say what i can say at this point bryan i think is in the process of getting married so things are on hold for a couple weeks while he's getting married and off on his honeymoon but conversations with tony and brian actually started a little over a year ago about their space we're looking for alternative and within the tiff district there might be a little less expensive than what we would pay a long market and garden street and we approached tony with the idea  and he was receptive to it he said he had been approached by a number of different enterprises looking to utilize that piece of land which as you can see from the photo with its open all the way found out the spring that they've been working very hard to sell champlain oil company and that's recently bank completed i believe as of july seventeenth now and so they are retaining the ownership of this property as well as several others locally but the majority of their assets have been sold and so we're working with them even more diligently now they're very excited about this concept and very willing to work with us as a partner and trying to come to an agreement on what deal would look like for that property i believe the intent of the office building itself is for them to retain that it's currently two stories and they have a permit and a regional permit for the building that can take that as high as four stories so one of their real estate goals is to figure out what they want to do with the rest of the building but they have contemplated us possibly utilizing the whole first floor for recreation department staff offices and additional programs space that really wouldn't be suitable for the indoor center it could be like a yoga class or jazzercise things that the room here is really too small for but could be designed into that space so those conversations are continuing and we hope that probably within the next month we'll have a final agreement with them that we can make more public the details of what that looks like the only thing i'd add to that as discussions in the recreation foundation have have moved along and that that project as most of you know has been a smashing success over the years of public private partnership so tony has done his fair share and then some for recreation in south burlington and i daresay he could get more money looking at a commercial venture for this property but but he is he's well we pay him for gas on a regular basis at all gas stations and he's extremely generous individual and wants to do what's best for the community and this is a one time opportunity to pull this off and i find it very exciting that this could finally generate the indoor recreation space that the community is needed and and it's just it's a really neat concept because the dome is so much more affordable and they've come such a long way from i mean i'm older but you know you member those those cheesy tennis domes you know if you had a snowstorm they deflated a tetra they've come a long long way they're high quality and would give us the opportunity to deliver high quality recreational facilities and services to the residents of the town for the first time and i find that very exciting which is why i'm willing to take the recreation foundation forward and raise you know we're going to look for a major donor or donors to get this thing moving and see if we can put in place pretty quickly so that's just an added piece as to why this is such a great opportunity right now and we can't afford messi and these guys have to finish putting together the deal just so the idea tonight was really to present this is a concept and  we still got a lot of work to do the the immediate short term goal for you folks is to come back to the planning commission next week so that they can see the same conceptual design for the first time and then kind of outline a process for us that would need to be followed as we have a couple of moving parts right to try to secure the deal with the wind and to work with the planning commission in terms of what might be necessary to meet the form base code and then look at the at the finance operation of the facility and i might we might say it's likely to be a convoluted type  of an arrangement as far as the land in the building in the us and and who owns what that that's everything that still has to be worked out but that is that's in process where more to come but  i know the committees very excited you know we're very excited to have something like this is an option that that we could look at so thank you for your work and i just i want to just say a couple things so i'm really excited about this right this is so i mean it's been sought after for a long time and pieces are starting to fall together it just done and i'm i'm sort of excited about the concept of an inflatable building i just make sure we don't forget our due diligence and find out what the costs are for a standard but we're building which would be steel and you know it probably have more longevity i just we need to understand what those cost comparisons are you know so i think i tying it to all of the goals that we have set out you know here on the council to mary i can tell you it's a twenty year facility the way that they're built now to put a steel structure in there would definitely increase access i mean that would not fit into the with what's being proposed within the city right now which is why we are looking at other alternatives to find out how could we still provide for some indoor recreational space but i have a steel building to call it's all good never mind i can do it one fifty by two forty is thirty six thousand bucks it's just about other words by take what i say twenty two thousand but that they're already six thousand and the steel building fit up like that right about now is about i'm going to go with fifteen dollars a square foot so thirty six just because you asked times over on the terrace probably mean if it's about five hundred forty thousand dollars the tariffs have increased the price of steel twenty five percent in the last ninety days  you know senior center city hall versus redevelopment existing and there are some properties along dorset street that are less and tyson and others because their industrial base they have been there for years and years and years and this will be an excellent example of something being a place that is you know real asset to the city so excited that we're going to go down this road because that whole sand remote dorsett cord or is used do just like wilson road is d just like the corner of fayette and shovel ribs do you know point conceptual plan that for the one building or for the both buildings the capital lease so i would just like to reiterate that there's not a final deal so this is really if we're talking about land purchases executive session stuff right now sandy we really hope to have this finalized within a month and as soon as we can share it and we will we're anxious to do that and we need to know what that final figure is to to enable us to really put the the the additional cost of this together so that whatever we can rest it's one parcel and how many here is the existing office building or that's where the brick building and the crew are his where the big black square is free and now most of that would be coming down to an area that as councilor barrett said needed development has needed to element for a while so that's something to balance in as well as having tiff country contribute thirty percent you know up the cost of public infrastructure here so that's also something for us to balance we're this is a big kitchen table for south burlington this is never no fun and games here so we're trying to make big decisions that will be palatable to the voter and that will serve us well but i i take your point it's well taken and we are interviewing tonight for that development committee so they're going to hit the ground running naked all right anything else from the public eye this is just the to interview tonight drawing up my document v m i'm a military spouse my husband is in the air guard i'm also running from her state senate pritchett in county i'm interested in being on the affordable housing committee because i worked and lived in south burlington for about ten years and by husband and i even though we both work full time have been priced out of three different places and when people retire from the base they actually leave because they can't afford the area anymore and i work with students and they get priced out when they graduate so i'd like to be a part of a community that helps to try to solve this problem t i am familiar with city council meetings i've been to a few in burlington when they did the refugees welcome so and i am on staff council you d m so i know robert's rules of order as well what type of housing do you think we are most in need of of course affordable but yeah definitely the different types of housing that you would recommend as a a young couple right well i just got a townhouse were really lucky we were able to finally get into one it's a fixer upper but i think it was two hundred thirty thousand i felt like i should have to get fixer upper at that price but it's a nice neighborhood it's right in stonehenge and i love our town house so that kind of housing if we could make it a little bit more affordable would be great  and i think we definitely need more student housing and we need i have a feeling that we're going to be having the explosion of baby boomers who are wanting to downsize so i think the students and the baby movers trying to downsize are probably going to be competing for housing in our area soon so i think in general we probably need more condos more townhouses probably not single family homes at this time it's just a theory though i have no proof that yeah have you been librarians know a lot of stuff that i know i read a lot of articles on the subject but i have no proof that baby boomers are going to do that i just know that's what my parents did and a lot of people that i work with that are retiring are downsizing from their homes and you have experience working with these various agencies you talked about the refugee resettlement program i did some work for amnesty international and like i said i'm on staff council i'm on the compensation benefits and budget committee and i'm trying to get higher wages for you via members tried to get a union but we did not get it's per staff members unfortunately  and i'm trying to join the lake champlain committee as well are you familiar with the sampling housing trust or yes yes yes i did some volunteer work for them recently and what kind of skills do you think that you would bring to this i think i'm a really good people person and i have a listening skills i have a degree in psychology and as a candidate for state senate i've been going around and door knocking and listening to voters and their main issues are clear lake champlain and affordable housing so i just think the fact that i'm willing to go around and listen to people i've worked retail and i think that retail has prepared me for government work  amount like actually this is been easier than working retail and food service i have a lot of patients with people and i do i like my psych degree definitely helps me  your interest that's what the city depends on volunteers and interest stuart mains oh i'm sorry i'm sorry oh i should announce that sorry so we likely will not be making appointments tonight so right now we are taking information and our next meeting is august twentieth and you might hear something at that point after that point all right thank you valerie thank you who's on the phone about whether or not you've attended meetings in the past or minutes and if you're aware of the meeting times schedule now i moved here a little over a year ago to be closer to my daughter who's in burlington i wondered today if i if i looked up housing committee south burlington what i would find and i think i found twenty thirteen documents about a recommendation which then laid down the committee so i guess the committee has a resurrected since then but i don't i don't know too much about right i can help you if if you go under committees meetings and agendas it will take you to a clerk base and that will take you to a list of all the agenda and the minutes it is something to get used to as any organization has so that there should be that available on line ok but the two times a month and during the workday as opposed to the evenings that's  i have a set list of questions myself so what type of housing do you think are most in need of an addition to affordable well i don't i don't know but my real interest in housing is not just that it's affordable but that it be almost community creating so instead of sort of isolated castles they are connected and people have a community where they help each other where they aren't separated from each other have you seen a neighborhood here in the city that you would offer up as  similar kind of community because i haven't been here that long but i have worked with people who live in buildings where  and skills that you would bring to the committee i like to analyze and problem solve and i have come compassion for those who have  named your questions or your questions are just right on kind of asking for all of us thank you mr maze and like i told you you will be probably discussing this at our august twentieth meeting all right have a good evening and welcome to our community over here ok so to new jersey and boston and as my son was approaching first grade i had two children four and seven my son was entering first grade before is about to enter first grade my wife and i decided that we wanted to get back to home which is south burlington and raise our children so i've been back here almost two years and we took over our family house and living with my my dad so he's making up for lost time so it's so it's great i'm back to you to and we have counsellor chitlins question about your awareness of the meeting schedule and your availability pretty airport commission was that a temporary the for good or for the for the term or what is the target even though my memory and we'll have to discuss this because i don't know that we should discuss this without helen present was that we know both communities interest me i mean obviously my background for the last twenty years has been easy ssion intimately familiar with the burlington international airport having worked there since i started in two thousand november of two thousand as a few war and then working my way up to vice president within heritage aviation  walkable really maximizing the land that's available for highest and best use and you know definitely seeing different i would say philosophies having lived in morristown new jersey basking ridge dreary jersey gloucester mass boston mass so you know definitely the different philosophies that and then having grown up in south burlington other places taken i was it was definitely opportunities for being able to empathize with and identify with all parties or all stakeholders within a certain equation is important and something i think that i can  as a newbie to town just a background i'm a very avid cyclist and runner and i have two very young children two and a half years old and six months old i do a lot of biking and running with both of them in town i live off route seven and to find safe places to take them has been  challenging so far i've found a couple of great neighborhoods and bike paths but i would love to have more i'm really excited about the pennies for paths project it's a great time to be trying to enter this committee but now i come in completely green about everything city government and everything that's been done to date and i'm excited to just learn about it and be able to contribute my other background as i'm also an e r doctor you've been there from last year's doctor yeah so i see all the consequences of having unsafe and bicycle access and i feel like that also really puts me in a good position to be able to help so no i have not attended anything and i'm completely green and given your schedule with the e r you feel comfortable going out for evening meetings do it very much as long as i know of advance the when the committee's going to meet i actually make our group schedule so i am very much able to tailor my schedule just there's like eight of them on the top of my drawers third of everything on my apparel so yes i also am an advocate for everybody being able to go out and access safe cycling and other  activities those who need it active equipment those who have strollers and bike trailers and those who are just out for a walk so very much want everyone to have that access and i think if anything folks with an cycles and lower profile recumbent bike serve even more risk of being struck sure talk about being struck you have easily know that they're you know you come at a really exciting time especially if this this vote passes tuesday  and there will be decision making to be done at that point as to what should be done and with priority and the federal grants that are available so it just thinking about your vision what would you suggest center and so just seems to me like a perfect opportunity to be connected there are a lot of the housing folks say that they are literally looking for interconnected communities and i think this really speaks to that i think it can i think of a neighborhood or community it's going to be more cohesive more amenable to neighborhood gatherings who think that if they're safe pedestrian cycling access basically what i would see is that the city wraps out sort of in spokes from that city center and then you have access from all directions to get on sort of almost any where you live  and be able to come into city center to make that easier and more safe so i think crossing seven is a big deal i think spears street needs cycling lanes on both sides i think there's probably lots of other niches and neighborhoods i haven't discovered yet that also could be used could use some more robust pathways or make some good progress if we get this book it would make some really big progress i agree i think  are a couple of spots but they are not i mean to be honest anyone turning right out of and they don't look so you have to stop you to make eye contact if you know they're there a flashing light system that senses but i strain something more than that white flashing a lot yeah i've run into lots of other cyclists and runners  and there's construction on going down there's well i think there's a lot a lot of opportunities from down there i know less about the potential around the rest of city but i think coming into the center city center project we need to have that access to city center in a  safe and outdoor and environmentally friendly way i would use out commuting by bike how would i sell it it is so hard i think the freedom the mind clearing of being able to bike a busy hour shift and the mind clearing of being able to get on my bicycle at two three four am and roll home is comparable the decompression and processing i feel the same way about running i mean getting on my shoes the next day and running through everything i did what i would do differently who i need to follow up with just to me that that mental processing time is so critical it keeps me here going on at five pm or six pm yeah i actually takes me less time to get to work at five pm or get home at five pm than it does to drive because i was my only option where i live and i can do it more quickly unlike in our city i am very little it depends on time of day  if i can stay if i can stay off of route seven i feel pretty safe just having to cross it is really i've over decades of biking and running i've learned that making eye contact with the  drivers the most important thing knowing knowing that they know that you are there i think i could feel safer there added pieces my husband's actually a bicycle mechanic it's your x and we have to have his perspective as well on sort of all the stuff he sees and you've talked a lot about our parts are there is there a picture of us kind of i we have of course the lake to poke around a little bit up there in those parks neighborhoods but i think if we could have some kind of and i don't know where i'd put it but i think if we could have some more off road opportunities trail opportunities for both pedestrians and cyclists that would be a big win for the city as well and being a whole nother be everywhere and that's and so that's one of things for the last six years that i've really enjoyed that part of being that close to burlington but also surrounding areas be able to go to dorset street or essex and you know  tom's question here i haven't been doing any of the meetings it was really something i saw a few weeks ago that i would like to learn more about i am the president of major way so i'm familiar with kind of the whole process of monthly meetings  more of that but it doesn't connecting a lot of areas i still even this point i still have to kind of navigate through neighborhoods and find my own connections and there are some streets were people still like seven i'd  feel so constrained to this this is the or the track that you're not part of traffic you're not you're not creating more traffic in ages it's incredibly liberating and that would be one of my big pushes is to really try to get people to be more aware of  commuting to work or biking as a means for commuting versus just recreational and i love recreationally but it frees up spaces downtown frees of parking it frees up just people and having to deal with that i love that idea asked being on the committee so they gave me a form to fill out and so i'm new to all this but i've been thinking about it for a while we had the beautiful dog park that opened a patch of road i was so excited because i could walk there and it was nice beautiful and gigantic so i thought about getting involved and getting on the committee and maybe just making maybe making some things happen and i do understand i feel like just from being in the dog parks  i know a lot about the legit you know like the physical environment what happens when it's a certain size and you're a lot of dogs so i feel like just from experience i i have insight to that  and it's also i've met a lot of people in the neighborhood because i i mean i live i've lived in my neighborhood for fourteen years and i don't know too many so if you don't have little kids in for you know meeting people i feel like this is one way of meeting more people in the area and also in the park you meet people and talk to neighbors more so it's a real community it's a little community there committee meet it's a new committee it's brand new and so you would really be establishing something there has been a taskforce but this is really going to be getting something off the ground here yeah been hard workers and so that leads me to my question and do you have experience writing fact sheets or grants experience writing fact sheets or grants so this would be really ok ok and how do you approach problems or issues thinking about it doing research talking to  think working as a group i feel like there are certain things certain aspects of it that that i know and then i also i also felt like south burlington has a big dog realize she was two houses down from me so you can't be too scared right right so the committee will have to figure it out so hundred hours a week but on the weekends for instance if you were to have a meeting to just have people check out a site do you think you could find time to do that kind of thing you're not traveling with your job i don't think when i was already thinking like oh maybe we need might have to do some kind of create some fund raising because they know this usually for the parks they are fund raising and what could we do and maybe we could have some kind of a bell here so we're going to take a five minute recess and come back we have some more people to interview so i'll just be a little break for our no taker but five minutes and a seventh inning stretch ten minute break as much as we try and we're here with mr outman and we're going to start with counselor chitlins question with regard to have you attended planning commission meeting have you looked at minutes are you familiar with the meeting schedule all have to get on to the charter review committee to worked out ok i know i should also say i did vote for the penny but i just found out i read it wrong i thought you guys just wanted a commission they're actually planning a development right across from my house and i've been privy to some of the things i know one of the builders who is friends with one of my friends and it's been quite interesting and i find it a whole interesting facet because my dad was a contractor and i know what he's right now i see i see a lot of all u n going on and i think being a part of the planning commission i see a more sense detail oriented or a big picture thinker oh and have you followed any of the recent planning discussions in the city so yes you have because you kennedy airport and you have the center city and only been here years it's center city or city center city square but yeah been following that and in the planning commission have you been able to catch kind of what they're working on right now and yeah i've seen some of the be have seen some of the planning commission and you know it's a lot of learning process like think the planning commission is has a little bit more of an interest just because of how they see the future and  what they plan and i think it i think it's more interesting to me what stuck out in your mind in their discussions is just how you want to look how to help people foresee what for months going to look like  maybe ten or twenty years what are your thoughts on them you know i think once they get it i think you want to really know what other people stores are but you know i want to see what people are going to do as far as you know energy conservation how we are building in the future what our carbon footprint is going to be for each individual household and how we're going to look at things and i think with technology today i think for man has a great chance of being a state on the forefront of really showing how you know communities and cities can be built in a better way and developed in a better way i've been on the planning commission for two terms and so i'm seeking a third term i'm currently vice chair of the planning commission and so i'm doing it for a while and really enjoy it i think we've got a good diverse group so  you since you know about the meetings schedule and all of that good stuff and you obviously have taken part in many discussions but what do you see as some real challenges for to you know agree on policy moving forward and you know there's i think currently you know a lot of challenges with respect to you know how we develop or if we develop an open space in the city and you know there are several proposals throughout the city for for development and you know how to do that wisely is a challenge  how do we do that wisely well you've got to you know take public input i think we've we've been pretty good about listening to public input and like i said we've got a really diverse group on the planning commission and so a lot of different experiences that people bring to the table and you know it's really just you know working through things and trying to come up with consensus on what we think is is going to work the best there have been  issues that we've become aware of and do you have recommendations for how the council's decision might make it less of a problem well you know one of the things you know to do is and you're doing it as you're interviewing people tonight is ask people what their availability is another thing is is you know tom's calling in tonight here meeting you know making it available so that people can call in remotely i'm not sure if you knew but i was actually out of state for five months and paul conner set it up with a go to meeting and i actually attended all the planning commission meetings remotely through go to meeting so you know i think know tools and technology that are available and encouraging people to use those helps with with kind of the quorum issues but we did have some unique situations as you know our chair broke both legs skiing this winter and so she was you know out of pocket for a while and you know and then you know that automatically you're down a person so that makes it all the more important for very well thank you for all that you've done over the past two terms and great well thank you for considering me for another term appreciate it secure your stamina right it's a big job you know the planning commission to big job so it was very very grateful boils down to the people like i said it's a good group to which it's good to go and enjoy it thanks thanks very much and i'm an attorney at the mcandrew in burlington i've been my wife and i moved here with our young young kids just over two years ago to south burlington we've lived in burlington o i don't think it would be very many i don't myself represent sort of a developer per se in southborough that's been in south burlington i don't really have those types of that i know that i don't myself i mean there could be sort of conflicts from i mean i've been a d n c for four years there could be other conflicts that i'm not aware of it's a thirty attorney firm so i mean what i know another another attorney in our firm is burlington and every couple weeks there's an e mail about what's coming before the board for a conflict check and so i mean i don't anticipate it being if i was on either that i would have to  it's more my my background of my skill set and interest so that's those are the two where i felt like i could be of most help to the to the city i think feel like it's important to to contribute involved at this point in my practice i've done a lot more land use work and feel like i would have that skill set to help on either of those committees how about building personal i mean i'm definitely interested in i mean i know it's been talked about with you know potential new city hall and city center like you know different people different ideas about what something should look like or should feel would you advise an applicant to the d r p if you see potential conflicts between adjacent properties i would advise the applicant if there's a potential conflict of conflict of uses or conflict of ok i mean i think the i mean i think the first idea with sort of any neighbor situation is really that it should be addressed early that i mean by the time it would actually get we could get sort of preliminary you know information before the d r b but i think once that land owner is approaching the city planning quickly you followed any of the recent planning discussions in the city and so you've talked a little bit about city center but i think you're used to yeah i mean i've seen the i mean i know there's a workless sort of what looking what's coming up for fracture so that which is large you know that there's a lot of sort of different areas that they're that they're looking at so i mean just as a citizen i mean there's a lot going on i know i mean there's you know there's there airport to airport issue city center issues i know there's you know mean generally yeah i mean i we were in a planning if i was in a planning mode you know i want you know i want to preserve our evaluate the valuable regional airports and i also want to preserve the community that's that's there around it that's been there for for decades and i think city centers will be a good thing for the city of south burlington and then i think the southeast i think we need to plan ahead for open space and and southeast quadrant does have a lot of what's what's left but out and i also believe in property rights of people who own property you know not being robbed of those so that's what a good planning process should try to accomplish is try to get both of those things done i just always background i've been on the development review board for three years i moved to south burlington five years ago i live in the cider mill neighborhood i've been vice chair of the d r b ever since tim got the was two years ago so i've been i've been the vice chair for two years just about two years my background before i moved to south burlington five years ago i lived in plainfield vermont i served as run a nonprofit trade association of businesses comprised of the energy services energy delivery thank you and you've learned a lot over these past three years so give us some insight into that i mean i could talk about particulars of course but give us some insights into some of the challenges that you see for the just the planning and zoning in general in south burlington and potentially what could make your job easier as someone who's trying to make the code fit for the applicant you know well you know one of the reasons that i made the decision to come before the city council three years ago volunteers that i think the greatest way to understand your community you know your community is to volunteer to go to these meetings as a journalist you learn stories by going to city council meetings and by planning commission and derbies and and that's more  but but everywhere is critically important for future generations for land use energy use out for community development economic development the decisions that we make in the meetings that we  seem seem boring may seem long but they're critically what we do on the development of your board every night and i'm proud to serve with the six other individuals on the board which are for a diverse background and careers but you know we're doing education we're doing mediation we're doing negotiation we're weird we're talking with applicants that are you know someone trying to put in addition on their deck to someone building a five hundred unit housing complex we're talking to a simple restaurant or doesn't know the process of how do you get an addition put onto your diner to someone that is a well skilled boy or that is challenging our basic tenets of our guard when development regulations and how to adjust in one night from one to the other i think is a challenge but it's it's it's an interesting challenge one that i enjoy partaking in the most important thing that i think the development review board  challenges it faces is is facing the question that we get from from constituents from residents who wonder you know when is is that stop or when do we take a we examine that bond some of the things that we're doing i believe that we need to preserve open space what creating more dense urban cores i really do believe in the land of elm regulations i'm proud of the management and the foresight that the people that came before me had but you know these are the questions that  citizens have to ask us and ask what's the future of self burlington how much more can we build and and these are the questions that i think that are valuable and that deserve time and i think the development of your board has really made  consistent effort to listen to the concerns of the community to remind them you know what our overall goal is and to it people sit in these chairs and they're fearful they're fearful change people or they're confused they don't understand how it happens and i think part of our responsibility is to communicate that and communicate what the broader goals of the city and the people that run the city are trying to accomplish for the good of everyone air here to live down there and a lot of people down there don't even know that up here exists right that's a truism you know when they're down there they go to springfield to do their shopping springfield mass or you know come up here  so i never combine any two or simply one of the three i would certainly combine and i would say my interests are more on the development side on the planning side than they are on  states so i've had the opportunity to work with a lot of different folks from all different backgrounds and some really fast growing communities greenville south carolina charlotte north carolina some places that have those community changes that are already present or you know looking at some challenges that i see there and how i may be able to offer some input to curb some of those before they become a self reliant and challenge so those are you know some things that interest me getting involved and you know becoming a bigger contributor to the community to in tom's question  i'm a big picture i think are but i pay attention to the details so there's a lot of times where you have to look at how a lot of different factors will affect the outcome and all those details how they affect each other with construction projects that we work on charge of the kitchens and restaurants and there's a there's always a way that anything you change will affect another part of the business or another part of the building so that's kind of a mindset that i always go into that planning stage with you know we want to move this wall was that while doing to some other you know the flow of traffic or the guest experience so there's a to function and it needs to open on time and you know pay attention of those big goals at the same time tell me about the main interest that drew you to apply to all three of these i mean you talked a little bit about the planning side but can you get more into that and you've attended a couple of planning commission meetings to perhaps yeah so i think you saw i've been a resident of south going to for about probably nine or ten years now i've lived over either way i think is a great idea and i fully support it because i would i would feel safer as a motorist if the bikers were more protected you know i feel like there's not enough protection for them i think the barriers a great idea that gives them a safe space to bike and i think it is mutually beneficial so yeah i can see how you know somebody that isn't a biker you know might be opposed to that but that's kind of the way i approach things it's not something that i'm interested in but i can see the other points of view how people are are interested in what it means to them and look past my own interests to see what's best for the community here or for a group of people i don't work from home so i do travel quite a bit for work but i am responsible for my  schedule so you know when meetings are scheduled you know they're there on the same night and so that would go into my schedule i'm just trying to get a sense of you know from your business experience how much of it was actually in the city because i mean  that with you i just was just curious you know if you have an appreciation for some the challenges that businesses run here i do because i you know i live in shop and you know i'm i frequent businesses here  and i you know i can see the you know the challenge with the diner renovation that there's there's things that i think we can we can improve both a member of the community and a business and i don't know associate i guess how does city centers development impact the business community in your view so i think it's positive i think it brings more people into the community you know i think that there are some development projects that i've seen in some of those other cities that i think remind me a little bit of the city center  and basically some ideas i think i could you know bring forward but they you know it's like at your example it's includes shopping and residential you know and it's more of a community that people  are looking to go to as a destination so the tracks that clientele of a destination but it also has people that live there and so they frequent the shops and the neighborhood and it includes green space includes  very safe pedestrian traffic but also includes you know easy expects us ability for motorists try again but i think that you know it was a different place there's there's probably some different applicants in the pool but certainly there's you know i admit there's probably people that come before you that are a little more qualified or they've been of the committee before so obviously you're doing what's best for the city near you know you're looking to fill those positions wisely certainly understand so i can appreciate that you know maybe i did make sense before and maybe i do now which is obviously my my hope i've enjoyed it i find i find it it'll actually interesting i have had to recuse myself a fair number of times over over the years which will be less so now because i've recently sold my think i bring to it an operational experience that nobody else on the board has i have i run a management company that four point three million square feet of space in five states and i've been doing property management for thirty six years so i know i bring to the board more knowledge of what actually has to happen with parking what actually has to happen with internal and external flow and so forth and that's that's the kind of thing that i tend to bring to that board it's a great board and the current configuration is wonderful  both attorneys that are on the border are interesting and and bring different points of view we have an architect who has been there forever solar finance or  you know there's a there's a there's a good good range and do you feel that that planning and zoning in general is making the work on the committee oh you know have been phenomenal i mean the code i don't mean that that was tough but i mean what i mean i think if there's one thing we could really now is that several things we could we could improve on i'm sure but but if we were if we could we if we could get together with planning the clinic commission more than once a year it would be helpful i can't tell you well every every single meeting we talk about something that our hands are tied we can't with we can't do this and often we want to often there's there are places where where a little bit of bending would make a huge amount sense but a shallow is a shallow amazin may and and we we follow those rules right down to the letter so we're pretty careful but there are you know frank open has a whole series of things that that he thinks we need to fix and i he and i don't agree on a lot of the the end results but we all and we almost always agree on the rules and i think we all agree on the rules it's the old the r s are what we live by and and and they're generally excellent it's just a few little areas that make it tricky i know came from you all and came from all from us at the same time more or less it was i wouldn't say it was my baby but it was our baby in a way i was one of the instigators of it from from the s side we've heard one of the things we've heard a lot of in a speech is how did they come to that decision you know what happens if we if we shrink the road on wilston road has anybody thought about the economic impact what happens if we if the lights aren't on on shelburne road because because we're letting every other light go out because it's cheaper what happens to business with that what if you if you add a bike lane  does that bring more business or does it hurt business so there's that there isn't in an economic impact on almost anything that this that the city council does and we talked about one or later tonight i'm not as i said t the break doing that doing those numbers may often give you a better story to tell the community if you you know i'm david i'm not against putting putting this over here i think that's a great idea for a whole lot of reasons i would tom and i were talking about it but the story would be better told if you could answer the question why there are verses on a piece of land that the city her heels and and and just saying because it's in the test is not a good enough answer because a tiff will give you thirty percent of a million five the taxes could give you all of that right back so so that's not a good enough answer we have to have the answer  so you know i think you know i'd love to be on it just because i think it's my alley i have more time for at this point and i think it's i think it's something i enjoy  doing and you tell us your vision for how this committee would work with our other standing committee and the types of projects particularly this is all this is really a question of how you where you invite us in i think at some level because how we interact with other committees is really how when we're invited to produce information and when and when that information is important you know whether it be city center or you know an economic development that he would have been great about two and a half three years ago and city center so the story was better today i'm not saying that it's not a great idea we don't with the economic impacts with enough clarity to say that yes putting it putting the library there is positive because it's going to bring x even if it's a in nor whatever you want to call direct rec center is a perfect example of us of a spot where makes sense pennies for pats actually makes sense i just came back from madison wisconsin and the their infrastructure is stunning how how great it is you get you know every roundabout you know two blocks ahead which lane you need to be  know but the the you know the bike paths there and through chicago i went right up shared road and the bike paths were phenomenal and we don't have course they have a bigger economic machine to build these things but but yeah we could be a lot better i'm sure why not like yeah thank you who's next damn them real handy oh no more dog park people now schedule but i don't know exactly when to this ok very good very good and you could tell us a little bit about your interests that's basically are you a self starter because it really our committees are there's all starters in our chinese there are people who make you know things happen and it requires you know a lot of time and and i think passion i think that's the word that was stated earlier in order kids kind of love the outdoors and love you know love nature of the environment and i think new jersey kind of loved yourself to death and you know it's just not as much outdoor space and looking at old map and you know it used to be upon my house right and i was just houses you know were useless like you know and so the kids wanted to stay inside and play computer games because there's like no where to go outside right well hopefully not as much  global tax planning for j p morgan so as you can imagine a position requires a lot of self starting very complicated issues and requires your bringing together a lot of diverse perspectives in the solve problems very difficult problems and i've been doing that for ten years of morgan for ten years before that as a kind of tax lawyer in the in the group my my educational background further up to speed on the vermont specific initiatives but you know i know green mountain power locally has to reflect programs that help me put solar on my roof and power walls in my garage and  have personal family are you not public outreach that's something that our energy committee is does regularly they are constantly communicating with the public and they've had a lot of success got it but now we have to spit using more with the car right and living there so will you know hopefully will use most of it but it's a power plant on the roof it really cracks really cracks great well as john s b b a kind of you know helped at all get that off the ground and you know a number of us had talked about you know the usefulness of helping the city see things through an economic development lands and it was great when the council responded and had a meeting and a host of us and i think that was a catalyst for the council saying yeah here i enjoy serving i wanted to make sure that the economic development committee was adequately populated when it got started i mean you know you'd hate to see well we want to have a committee of seven or nine and maybe only have four applicants that would be unfortunate you know so i want that's why other than you know having an inherent interest in economic development and wanting to promote conversation and i will say you use said through a couple of hours of me and all the interviews maybe not quite a couple of hours but you realize how everything interconnected and that there are you can achieve more by having you know collaboration good communication anticipate rather than react you can go on and on and on and on and i think economic development was a lens maybe that you know people weren't looking through with the same focus or passion as some of the other committees and groups that there are and it's not like a win lose it's you got to find ways of of adding value and i think the addition of economic development will be an asset for the city and i am interested in serving though you know if there were a dozen applicants you know the idea of serving on three committees is a little daunting i mean two is  challenging at times itself so i'm just being candid about that but i enjoyed the subject material of the committee i'm pretty invested in  challenges that our community faces and i think that i enjoy offering my thoughts and working together with people finding solutions to do thanks so i know kyra rambled a little bit more you didn't  as to yeah so any other specific questions i think i'm up for renewal on reckon parts two just ok so before you excuse me if there's an idea daughter of t to cross with the you know a statement there or i would like to do that too yes go ahead yeah  like i said i want to make sure i've you know feel that it's important that economic development gets off the ground and that the committee is adequately populated and  don't volunteer to do something without being committed to doing it it's rare when i miss any meeting for either one of the committees that we have and so if my services are desired i expect to have the same commitment with economic development even though it increases the the workload a little bit back to reckon parks i've enjoyed my service on that committee  it's i will say when i joined that committee initially i was recruited by maggie and you know i kind of the force of her personality was as responsible for recruiting me as any passion that i might have had fo reckon park specifically my you know my interests in iraq in parks is probably not as driven by i want to make sure we've got a program for this guy or that guy but you know  it's it's open space it's lance or land resource utilization it's the politics of trying to get people to agree on how resources are used to making judgments about versus wants and i think i think that i've been able to add a little bit of value we've got a great chair who you know is very passionate and  you know so her her commitment is inspiring and you know so the rest of the people including myself on our committee you know to to do our share for the benefit of discussion and just exchange there's again there's there's nothing behind this question how do you how would you respond to what mr wilkie said regarding the placement of the recreation center i think john makes a great point that  n it's actually a great opportunity i think to demonstrate to the community maybe you know maybe that we can do a level of due diligence with that i mean as a reckon party member i'm extremely committed and enthusiastic about the opportunity for an indoor recreation facility to get off the ground and find a way you know of of happening for our city and you know near the city center it's accessibility that's good but we have to be able to make an economic development and we we really shouldn't be afraid either if you know even if you can look at sort of say well you know it's don't  perfect be the enemy of good or whatever whatever you call it you know you try to do your best but that that's definitely an opportunity for us to kind of take a look at it and sometimes you even surprise yourself you know as i think as john said you know you're  the impression and so my at this point in time hey the test you know that's that's an asset here we've got thirty percent come in at us that's really the last of the people bringing people to a place that we want business this type of ok i absolutely i mean there are some  you know there are some object of metrics that you can put into the conversation and then there are some some that are more subjective in their nature that are a little hard to quantify and so you go to try to find a way of you know putting them into the conversation and you know decision making isn't always driven by one or the other there's a combination and so but i think that would be an exercise that would be u what she does and the people that she serves keep coming back to that word service you know it's if you're into serving good things will happen to you that's i tell my son and daughter that same thing  thank you two more i'm thank you both for this late evening just to keep going with energy it was kind of alphabetical so i'm sorry enough for a late evening mr parent is that how you say it timothy perrin and then tammy where are you from tammy and chicago area i grew up in lombard so i was very curious reading your background ok mr parents  life is a long term resident and we actually just bought her childhood home so things are coming full circle before that spent about a decade in burlington and then another five years in vermont so tell us about your interest in the energy committee and same similar questions about whether or not you've been aware of them you've attended a meeting you know where their their meeting schedule they could stuff for the last twelve years i've been with him on energy investment corporation we provide for renewables and energy efficiency consulting here in the state as well as internationally and the majority of my work has been on our efficiency vermont contract and i've been engaged with the city staff as well as the energy committee here in south rolling to and for the last seven or eight years helping identify and implement energy efficiency projects within city buildings street lighting wastewater treatment facilities and are looking at ways to do things in the transportation and thermal space more effectively so i've attended energy committee made meetings probably twice a year on average through the past you know know being formalized and then helping support them on a variety of projects whether it be the municipal street lighting initiative or so it's not pursuing the georgetown prize or trying to identify where the city can save some costs and or gee bills across city buildings  a lot of my rule in my day job is we're given goals and metrics and sometimes those those metrics can kind of put us at odds with perhaps path forward so our role in this business development and having an account management team is really trying to figure out what is the most effective in efficient way of being able to hit some of our energy savings cost reduction targets on behalf of our customers so there's a lot of creative problem solving and kind of active pursuit of trying to figure out new ways to be able to solve what are really challenging problems public outr you would be doing on this committee do you have background in that or just a sense of comfort with a definite sense of comfort with that for sure i view with some of the  sustainable energy policies stall that the national level the importance of community engagement being able to work together as a cohesive unit and have leaders across a community being able to inspire folks to be able to just make one simple change in their life that can lead to a real positive impact that can that can aggregate and lead to a real difference as being really incredibly important and perhaps the best pa forward in terms of being able to reach some of the states energy goals as well as more broadly of the community as a conduit for being able to engage folks being able to inspire folks and being able to educate folks as to how they can make a meaningful difference sector as well as improving things from a thermal energy side of and really trying to tackle the challenging not of sustainable transportation trying to get off of fossil of for a number of years i'm actually managing a team of five at the office and one of the members of my team is working with bob more consistently now on a project where we thank you for that it's it's made a difference in certainly are but i mean do you have any pet peeves recently you know i'd like to be able to make a difference in this one thing because it bothers me do you have any of those although it's outside of what i'm working on day day in day out  focused more on the building side of things and predominately electrical efficiency i feel like that the transportation challenge and being able to make transportation more sustainable from the from the fuel that reusing that making the switch over to electricity as opposed to running on fossil fuels the idling that happens across you know lots of parking lots and even when dropping off kids at schools that's one of those things that as has bothered me through the years i feel like that's just a tremendous waste for no direct benefit that's there and being able to encourage carpooling and ride sharing and figuring out creative ways to transport individuals and goods around the city that doesn't necessarily rely on single passenger vehicles anything was ok even though sometimes it is and that's why they have to vermont for a change of life and finally settled in south burlington and now that we've been here like i need to get back involved because that's kind of who i am and what i do so my first career i was a systems analyst so i would look at the big picture write the program and focus on the details but then is life changed and things happen i became like a community person i got involved in health and wellness i've been in the fitness industry managing a fitness center for illinois parks  district there for fifteen years and just said you know this kind of suits me it's a small community there's a lot on our plate like i should probably start getting involved so i want to play pickle ball one day because i started that in our park district and i missed it i thought i'm going to get back out there intimate saline and i said i just applied for this volunteer position not knowing that she worked here so it's a funny way how the community works here so some of the things that i only put down parks  wrecks because i thought that was my background and that would be the most suited but the other one that i thought about applying for was the bike and pedestrian you were going at the top of the list yeah ok that's something else that i've always had a passion and i taught a bunch how to safely right outside we had organized rides for five years in a row in chicago we did a women's only bike ride that raise money for a scholarship charity i haven't ridden much here because i really don't know where to go i do run a lot with a group of women and i've learned the bike path system i've learned where i don't want to be by myself but i'm not quite comfortable enough getting out on my road bike in some of the areas maybe more in the islands because it's a little a little bit less congested so everything that everybody has said tonight is like oh yeah i've experienced that i've seen that already in the few months we've been here and i just feel it's time to get involved in see how i can help use the resources that i have in the experience i that more people we got more exercise we were happier because we could put our backpack on and walk to the grocery store and it was a half mile there and a half mile back who cares you just didn't buy a gallon of milk you bought half a gallon but you actually experienced your community in a different way you saw  different things and so as we were you know kind of bouncing around here in different rentals looking for places we did end up over by barrel street and that area is so lockable we had a car and we hardly ever drove it because you can go anywhere from there so the excitement about this city send the city city center is also very exciting because being in health and wellness that's what you're goal is to get people to move and to strengthen the spirit of your community was kind of what we used in the fitness center is our kind of tagline because that's what if a community center does it brings everyone together for activities and you know the kids would do things that parents would do things and it just strengthens the people in your community makes them a little  more excited to be part of that community and i think that's ultimately what i'm gathering from reading everything is what we want to do here in south burlington so i'd like to be part of that in some capacity that's not this time it's next to you so i don't know  so i totally see the big picture but detail oriented service oriented i do have a full time job but it's flexible so days or evening meetings would probably work fine i actually have also tutor that's been another passion of mine so i actually work for a reading software company which kind of ties my service and orientation and training back into educators which are back into the community so i kind of go full circle i'm pretty much an open book if position or no takers available recreation and parks going to be are you a good note taker well so part of my responsibilities when i started working for the park district was i was instructing fitness classes and they needed someone the executive director needed someone to take notes so i started going to all the board meetings and the executive sessions and the taskforce meetings and every meeting a maginot ball and it was the recording secretary for a lot of years as we were going through some very large referendums and spending a lot of time in committees and meetings organizing all of that detail so we had everything in place for those referendum so yes maybe i could go back to that it's been a while since i've done it but i've been pretty much involved in the workings of a park district from the ground floor all the way up but you also her we don't really have a facility right now is that kind of challenge something that it would be so exciting to work on that one of the referendum referendum we worked on in our park district that we were there were seven full time employees so we were small that we all were involved in was a three point four million dollar referendum to redo our pool and it was very exciting because i'm not a pool person but it's recreation it's fitness like i was all in that and it's very exciting to be involved in something like that there's so much that you can learn from we worked with three or four other park districts to give us their insight because they had already gone through that so working throughout the community is perfect for things like that so i run usually in the morning at five am it's going to be a short night but it's getting dark now between five and six thirty i usually run i to and from work but we do need a little more walkability from some of those communities the bike paths definitely everything that's been said i mean i just it's all the same i think we're all here for the same reasons have you attended a meetings i haven't because i think i saw this like two days before the deadline i'm like oh my gosh look at this with sounds like i should get involved the timing is perfect so i haven't been to and even meetings but i've been to enough over the years i think i have a pretty good idea yeah i just a few words about mr blair he is probably the first person i met in amongst the staff yeah yeah and so i was a while ago and went in a couple times since and he's been blair resolution two thousand and eighteen relating to zoning administrative officer raymond j belair whereas the members of the south burlington city council are celebrating service of the citizens of south burlington by recognizing zoning administrative officer raymond j blair and whereas mr blair serve the people of south burlington for more than twenty eight years initially in the water department later as planning and zoning assistant and since one thousand nine hundred ninety nine as zoning administrative officer and whereas mr blair provided outstanding support expertise and guidance to the development review board for more than eighteen years and to the national natural resources committee before that and whereas in addition to serving as a city zoning administrative officer mr belair adroitly perform the duties of code enforcement officer and telecommunications officer and whereas mr belair has issued and track permits for nearly three thousand willing units in the city representing nearly a third of all of the units existing today in the city and where as in perhaps the busiest zoning office in the state of vermont mr blair has issued over seven thousand seven hundred zoning permits and thousands of certificates of compliance certificates of occupancy and sign permits he knows a lot of us and whereas mr blair has worked tirelessly on behalf of the citizens of south burlington to provide fair responsive and courteous permitting assistance and whereas mr bill there performed his duties with the highest level of integrity professionalism fairness and respect now therefore that it be resolved that on behalf of the residents of the city of south burlington the city council does here by recognize and extends its deepest appreciation for raymond j belaire service and dedication to the residents and businesses of the city all of whom are the better for his years of service and that mr b exemplify the commitment to fairness that leads to making a true difference in a community and let it be further resolved that we the members of the city council recognize and honor mr blair for his devotion to the community welcoming assistance to residents and businesses in the city and impartial implementation and enforcement of the rules and regulations adapted by this council and that it be further resolved that is happy of this resolution shall be presented to raymond j belair and that this resolution will be inserted in its entirety in the minutes of the south burlington city council meeting dated august sixth two thousand and eighteen there we are so it w nice job how did you derive the seventy seven out of the very well off it's incredible it was late but i just want to say briefly that it's been it's been not only true professional and personal pleasure to work with ray for the last ten years and one week but also just to see and witness everything that was described in there but also to see the zero point that he's received since people heard of his retirement whether it was well this year or even in the last week of people saying he's retiring and genuine which you need to take and just to think of that this is the person you're going to get permits from it's really know so i really prefer the time that he took to teach me you know that process and then educate me about certain aspects of certain applications and just bear with you know the whole process was really think next to the other business and davis already determined that we have none or the business that you did or you get a stellar job managing this this evening and even though we're an hour late it was fascinating listen everybody was so highly qualified and  my right we have the one application the rotisserie restaurant for outside consumption only committee that she wondered if we should have moved forward was the economic development committee now we heard tonight that it's not necessarily for city center would be for the rec center so i don't have a night rather than wait meeting but not appointed and they were asking ok so all in favor i all right so we are officially in executive session but can we have a motion to appoint nancy rowley to the library board of trustees