but we will reserve as to whether we will credit the substance of that argument because you are not admitted to the courts of the united states understand that so we will let you argue but honor with mr vargas appearance i suspect that the other side is going to attempt to raise issues with regard to the brazilian proceedings and their affect possibly on what goes on before this court in this appeal i'd like to start up by saying that we have jeff to the extent that the defendants attempt to introduce some new point regarding brazilian law und rule forty four point one of the federal rules of civil procedure if they are going to raise a point of foreign law we are entitled to advance notice of showing up now on the morning of an argument after having had the opportunity numerous times to brief not just on the merits but in connection with motions that have been far we don't think is adequate notice on the other hand if we don't know what he's going to argue i don't either and that's what i mean why are we discussing that right what i'd like to emphasize is this is an american judgment between two parties who consented to the application of american law and agreed to litigate in american courts and after this case it taken its full course through trial and to judgment and after the judgment itself had become final the defendants then instituted new proceedings on the same contract in a foreign country now this court does not have to look any further than country your honor the brazilian proceedings are not final and indeed my my clients have appealed the the order that the court issued there to the court of the next instan e i'm not a brazilian lawyer but my understanding is that unlike in the united states where when you go to the next level of judicial review you you only deal with questions of law and  proceeding and in fact we had a declaration that we submitted to the district court from pedro calm on which is in the record he's our client's brazilian attorney that that showed the very type of simple pleading that the court order the defendants to file to stop the brazilian case from going further and that is what we asked the court to direct the defendants to do simply dismiss the case with prejudice and brazil won't be affected but applicant or plaintiff i'm not exactly sure what the proper term is under brazilian law he has itself instituted other proceedings to enforce the judgment in brazil those are in the capital city of brasilia the defendant this country if they had assets in this country wouldn't we would have executed and we wouldn't be here today the problem is we have to take the u s judgment in force and abroad we have taken it to switzerland we have been forced in switzerland against their property and we have collected a small in force in either country so that the enforcement of our clients judgment in brazil depends a problem on the recognition of the judgment by the brazilian courts the procedure for doing that when you're the plaintiffs in the judgment holder is to go to the proceeding i don't know if they call a suit us to enforce the u s judgment i think of a student sort of on the merits and it's my understanding is it's more in the nature of examining the judgment here to determine whether the court will enforce it or not  your honor seattle totems says that that a fundamental policy of of the of the units states if it applies to the case justifies the court the district court in issuing an injunction against foreign proceedings in that case the defendant filed canadian proceedings after having them sued in federal court in seattle the seattle federal court enjoin the further proceedings in canada this case is even stronger than seattle totems seattle to have not yet come to judgment on this case and so since you haven't heard what's going to be said i haven't seen the writing you might want to say some time i am sorry i would like to say mayor michael thank you all right for enforcing foreign judgments in brazil against president citizens or companies don't sided in brazil and we have this deal the action in to two reasons are actually one the cost was i think or pardon the second reason besides the cost was the not having financial possibilities to pursue their interests here they still had so much to do there that they ended up letting th last set of appealing or anything they filed a whole new action in brazil no they failed at my knowledge i don't work for them for very long but that's my knowledge that's the only thing we can look at today ok i can add something if i may i'd like to add something on what mr donovan said he is absolutely right when he to to a compromise or if the parties have reached an agreement outside the court but it cannot be done simply by saying ok in an appeal you can't just quit there is a constitutional principle in brazil it's on the article five of the brazilian constitution not ninety eight based on liberal rights which we have which have been inspired mainly by the united states and one of these rights is that a brazilian citizen has always so for the conflict to be solved the parties have to reach an agreement so then the parties can petition carmen to the court of appeals and then the court of been brought by frightened i believe to get across are also asking for the review of one or two point i'm not their lawyer in the lawsuit but the court of appeals will judge the appeal anyway unless the parties stake the action to say ok we have reached an agreement we have an understanding and we want to dismiss in the action that they're not i know there were there were moments they didn't have any attorney there were moments did the attorneys had to resign then they were searching for all their attorney until well i'm curious about one thing you've told us and we have no way of knowing what you're talking about because we don't know the statutes of the constitution of brazil but you're saying as i understand it that a party cannot and we have an injunction telling them that they cannot pursue an action in brazil if they want to the brazilian appellate court and said we are then joined now to do this and we have to be that injunction are you saying that the court of appeal could not act on that or is that a national thing would have to resolve i have to say i must say for your information there is a judgment in the united states that is a final judgment thank you for your comments hired lawyers in switzerland when we seized their bank account there to defend that they can hire lawyers when they want to they chose not to fight this lawsuit and now are our own and they fought it right up until the very end the only point at which they didn't appear was after summary judgment had been entered against them on the issue of liability they contested with counsel right up to that point and then simply did not show up for trial on the issue of damages that was the only piece of the proceedings along which they did not have an attorney was on went to explain to the court what had happened in the district court explained how the judge was final up to explain how it was no longer subject to appeal or other review it was clear to me from participating in the hearings there that the brazilian court was not going to listen to that court was not interested in hearing the defense it had made up its mind before the case began only once it became clear to us that there was no chance of getting justice from the court could we go back to the district court and attempt to stop we were faced with a hobson's choice you're on and when you're attempting to enforce the judgment in another country obviously the first thing is to ask the court to respect the judgment only once big became clear to us that the brazilian courts would one party to a contract saying well try it first in the court in which i've agreed and then i'll go back home and i'll try it again that's just that's just not workable in the united states supreme court in the brain instead it would in force these types of agreements and it's a two way street it doesn't mean just some announced we had our brazilian lawyer prepare a very simple pleading rather obvious to the request for dismissal in the united states that would simply have dismissed the case there i honestly don't know whether that would suffice at this point now that the case has gone to the second instance but clearly something would cause we would do even mr vargas concedes that it is possible for the parties to stop the case now and the district court ordered the parties to do that we can get the paper from a brazilian learn to do it stay in for some other brazilian judgment my clients post a bond and that's that was a substantial amount of money that they had to plunk down in brazil in order to prevent the judgment from becoming executable against the wall they went forward to the second instance so what we're really talking about