we're going five i'm sorry go ahead i've emphasized with i have thought of asking to go back to the paper method but i i know what the result would be yeah i think we're down the road  either before or a little bit after three months and expiring the i b e w proof of service was motion today kate and that was unsuccessful i'm a little confused about a rule for the rules of civil procedure i just looked at it this morning and saw horror of what i'm going to last back to the fairness concept or the lack of harshness concept that martin's mentioned i think an attorney should follow the rules i think an attorney most certainly should come t i know judge grill for many years and the ally that varies from time to time his concept of fairness and i don't mean to be disrespectful but the in this case the re it wasn't that and did you do you read the rules to be that service by the court is exclusively by email i'm embarrassed to tell the court that i have not read the rules on electronic e mail but i have minimum noticed after this problem arose that i should be reading my emails were carefully that is correct  so in your pleadings so that's where people have their name address bar number and then the rule was amended to say add your email so my question to you is do you think that sufficient notice right issue basically is this local world about what you're supposed to put on your documents and it changed over time so the rule in effect when they saw it was coming down the pike just said along with your you know address and phone number of facts you should put your email on the title page of any of your documents and my question is  your view they should notice that the court would be communicating with attorneys exclusively by email and my answer is no in my case your honor west is kind enough to send me supplements to the rule and i forget when most of them it's come you may be familiar with those and that rule change was in undoubtedly in that supplement but i did not read so what do you think is the strongest basis for reversal here in your view the strongest basis for reversal here is that the specific rule on receipt of the now but as we pointed out in our brief that the rule requires an e mail address on the caption where the telephone number and the bar number and ups so is there anything you can point to where the court notified attorneys apart from saying what you should put on your title page that the old game is off and it's now an world in terms of receiving notice from for this respect to electronic notice no i think it's fair to say that most attorneys who practice in the central district know that things move along a lot faster than they used to  and that the judges issue o s c and require attorneys to show up on a much more regular basis to report on the progress of their cases that that's really what i would offer reading e mail was not a sufficient explanation for not showing up to the add to the o s c let me just look at a live from my right around the time that this rule was amended well the rule had in there that you should have put your email address on your cover sheet but soon after that the central district adopted like many courts did electronic case firing at least for certain judges and cases and  electronic case filing my reading of the rule says that they actually tell you if that judge or that case is in the electronic case filing program they actually haven't noticed something to the effect that  service of the court's orders filed by the court and designated cases for electronic filing will be served only leah the email notice of electronic filing so this case i presume was not one of those cases case it would not so the only thing that we would be holding council to is a violation of not having it on is not reading or interpret in your understanding the rule to mean that email is the only way that the court is going to communicate on the other case correct well it's a put you in a lucky position because you get to come here having really not responsible for anything situation i suppose although i'm sure your client would wish the case would go away well certainly and when we had the dismissal was entered without our knowledge at all and right the first notice we had