one thing under number seven is it talks about the public airing by law amendment growth management i also wonder if it should mention that it also talked about the industrial zone and district west it was also part of the public hearing  minor compared to the other discussion but nonetheless part of it yes absolutely it was and then under number eight did  i guess actually did i take it back it doesn't need to change its mind the way it is there's more information there i don't have to let me go over anything else but  family she had spirit or retail markups vary quite widely from the twelve useful water systems it was that's to cover maintenance of the system and long term debt or your operations would be helpful for me if you know mine is just a brief summary of what are the key drivers in the that the board looks at we have you know our top ten list of things that are going to be increasing the most are things that kind of have varied from year to year and we take a very close look at those numbers and everything has made sense but yet it's just kind of this typical things  you can't control if i'm just going to use this more as a the devil's advocate type question than it is don't don't read anything into this but our tax rate went up i think this year around two point two percent or so and i'm just if we wanted to lower the rate let's say to something like two point two percent what would you look at to do that well a bunch of their names that down the rack and bite you in the end but if you're trying to do that and so what we try and do every year is maintain a similar level of capital contribution and also take a look at what we have that we can not you know we can live without each year and try and trim back some of those which we do in the board does with and ultimately we sit and take a look at what are the things that we that we can control chemical costs you know our bill for our electrical usage rate as well as employee insurance those types of things and so what we try and do is as a board set a goal of somewhere in the three percent range to continue to maintain the level of service and that we're looking to provide both today and long term as well as balancing those increases that are i think if you probably took a look at what the increases are and you probably know similarly in your shoes you know you're not looking at a two point two percent increase in actual cost you're as of the retail markups when you when you pass that along because of the retail markups it's one point three six percent on the retail rate e good thank you is there anything new other than the capital projects you talked in here about and we know about one very well is there anything new new employees  new equipment that isn't we're not really you know we know we when it comes to when it comes to capital projects is obvious and new projects but one of the things that we try to do in when looking at the budget is the timing of projects that you see that have occurred over time and will continue to occur over the next several years is we've got debt that's falling off and so we've been trying to time our infrastructure improvements with that debt that's falling off so that we can incur similar or less than amount of debt do not impact the rates so part of our long term strategy for maintaining our infrastructure is looking at the necessary projects that we need  to work on and identify them in a timeline that matches up with our debt service so you know it's we're actually kind of going in the in the other direction of you know not necessarily adding staff or adding resources but trying to use the staff that we have now and the resources that we have put away to look at asset management programs we have to take maintenance program that for all our steel tanks we we have them under contract we have a fixed price for that contract and we know where that fits into our budget so we're not exposed to some of the hiccups and they have full main its responsibilities for those tanks that were not into hiccups of having all of a sudden put up a tank out  rehab and take a blow in our budget to deal with that we're probably going to read in there we have a new a new effort that we're undertaking of looking out of pipes from an asset management strategy we are fortunate enough not come would only have nine to ten breaks in the history in the thirty to forty something history of our system which is probably someone i've heard of but we're watching our neighbors our service systems pipes experience issues and they're slightly older than us and so it's possible that we may be in that same condition so what we're trying to do is understand that anything that we can do now for cost avoidance as well as long term infrastructure maintenance providing a level of service that we need at the minimal cost will help stabilize the budget that we're looking at so that every year when we come to you to present any kind of increase that increase is really a function of of the economics of of the year with some sort of response to what the cost of living is and the cost of services are and not some drastic change to you so that you get hit with a large a large number that no one's expecting so as much as three percent may sound daunting and it really here and you guys are in the ish range which i appreciate by the way we we do our due diligence to make sure that we are putting money aside to maintain good thank you and then my last question i don't know how to really give it a name but it's going to be it appears global foundries is doing a good job of water efficiency i'm looking at the chart you provided for in your water sales and your two thousand was a banner year in terms of water sales  decreased drastically down to about two thousand and ten ice sume a lot of that had to do with global foundries and my question really is is when you had a large user who has the good news is they've been able to significantly cut their water use but that has an impact on the rest of us because that large user is no longer buying as much water is there much of an impact of that on on us the town and our men who celebrate currently not so much but definitely back in the what was it zero five zero six seven time frame when they were dropping there was a shift and how because we are e a per gallon per thousand gallon so great so obviously if we don't have as much water cells we don't have as much revenue so a couple things that are going on is we we do have our capital reserve that is set aside hopefully for future capital but it is also there in case global does take a turn in its its usage but then obviously there would need to be a long term strategy as it did that be a short term buffer you have to take a look at a long term strategy but based on where we are today they are generally stable if you will obviously there's nothing guaranteed there's a lot of lot of unknowns over there's not a lot of talk when you talk to anybody about how their things are going but at the moment things are stable but we day unfortunately that decline they got one point in time really close to two and a half months of it right now they're about three point four million gallons day have been somewhere between three point three and three point five over the last ten years but whether you look at this chart went back to one hundred seventy three when we started  declines over the years they've they've they shifted a lot after two thousand they were gearing up to record may remember that two thousand when when vermont was one of the finalists for the expansion that went to new york but and then once the new investment was made in new york a lot of manufacturing horsepower passerby i think went to that new site and  declined if you will i kind of look at it as that chip manufacturing capability per square foot of fabric fabricator that they have over there so there they've been very  and that is it did want to make it into your into your into your summary and so the we were under rand we actually should probably put the actual totals of everything in here but we we under ran everything on the town side by about two hundred twenty five thousand dollars and we were in we were under budget you're under budget yeah yeah under budget sorry yeah under budget by two hundred twenty five we were under budget by about thirty six so as a whole we were about two hundred sixty one thousand dollars on the budget for that project that is a direct impact on what we're going to have to pay to the water district on that debt we we had a budget of i want to say it was about one point five million dollars for that project and when we put it out to bid the bid came in about two hundred sixty thousand dollars under the estimate and those were actually savings and construction costs the original project cost there was significant savings there as well because when you build a larger tank when we decided to go and double the size of the most of the infrastructure in the town is town maintained and now and most of the majority of water mains within the town early on that that's in our capital plan or long term planning and you guys take care of basically giving i really make it directly to the tanks but we have a defined location where we feed two that we own and we maintain that line and then any of the lines that are connected to that that feed residences and commercial properties are all  there's there's a plan in place to for a long term strategy for maintenance of that by the down countywide we probably own c w t will still transmission a larger mains probably fifty fifty four miles maybe ten percent if you took all the distribution systems of the other twelve water systems six hundred miles are going to be six hundred miles or so a lot of pipe a lot of hill and dale a few well engine there's a tower line which is like this no more tower only because there is no tower there anymore but that elevated storage tank was a it was a bit of a maintenance challenge given that it was it's elevated the underside would be exposed to a lot of condensation a lot of wear and tear and metal wear and tear and a lot of pain required to maintain that at a very steep price so when there was an opportunity for the town to look at additional storage we were happy to work with t jim said lower the cost per gallon by making the tank a little larger and eliminating that tank from our long term maintenance program so it was a day we were able to reduce the the capital outlay by the town and also able to reduce the long term long term management requirements of that tank which would have been spread across the entire county but wilson would have been a portion of that long term maintenance of that tank so offsetting that was it was a win win for everybody they knew they were there when they were i mean i live pretty close to that they constructed that even you could barely tell anything was going on it was a little intact same with the tower coming down i was hoping to see that actually but you know you had to get there separate budgets for doing water planning work for some of the systems that we that we serve and we are fortunate we don't have we don't have a lot of turnover we've we've had a couple  positions that have seen some turnover with some younger staff who have who haven't still stayed around but i would say that's a anomaly as a matter of fact we're actually we have three three retirements this year with jim we have john so people once they get their tender tend to stay there which we're very fortunate because we've been able to build some really good talent with our staff there serve all the champlain water district is served of our intake pump station roll water pump station in both the water treatment seventy seventy five thousand more than ten percent of the acres of their property to the catamount community forest because there are no role in current use now donating that seventeen acres to the town makes their remaining property ineligible for current use and so that would subject the pages to land use change tax be which is estimated at sixteen thousand dollars this fee is collected by the state and most of it is retained by the state with a small percentage going back to the town and this fee could be substantially reduced by v assessors estimate to roughly twenty five hundred dollars if a conservation easement was placed on the pages remaining eight acres of land in role in current use the remote land trust wouldn't hold in the smith the small so ensure protection of land next to the town forest the conservation commission discussed this on february sixth and they are recommending that the town hall the conservation easement on these eight acres both to reduce the let the land use change tax and to protect additional land to next the fort town forest and they're also requesting the select work consider using  afghans to cover any remaining land use change tax incurred by the pages would be roughly twenty five hundred dollars yeah although that that's not confirmed that was an estimate your ever or been used for that specific purpose in the past no it would i mean i guess it would be considered as a purchase of a conservation  so i think you answered my first when this was done in the past but under some different circumstances as you mentioned what is the revenue loss for the was it a dangerous it's i haven't calculated exactly but it's going to be pretty minuscule i believe reason is minuscule because it because it's in the state land use our current use program so it that reduces the taxes but it wouldn't be would it in the future would it if they took it out or if by the fact that they're donating seventeen reagan get some teenagers that this remainin eight acres would then be taxed at a much much higher rate so even though it's a it's just trying to get a feeling for what that number would be and i know they're donating the seventeen and seventeen they're donating remind me melinda is it actively part of the town forest on the words part of the trail system part of yes it is yes it will be part of the trail system so it's actually actively going to be little unclear from the east at least the original easement that i reviewed whether we actually have access as town forest users to the property for recreation because it seems like the property includes  yeah i mean he's got he's got a barn and i believe the barn would be in the in the excluded two acres and there's some solar trackers you know i think i'm not sure what else he uses the property leads me to my main question is are we creating a situation and i know they're donating or giving us land that will be part of our town for us but are we creating a situation where we're providing some preferential treatment here or there they're actually using the property right that's the eight acres is in use and feels a little bit like a farm like an egg farm and do we you know are we creating a town there's eight meaning that eight is too small to have been rolled in current use and it's correct and thus the tax increase would be it would go from whatever the tax rate was in current use to whatever the tax rate was as understanding it would be the two acre home site and then the rest would be taxed as excess land but i'm not really sure about that so and i want to say right but it couldn't be in current use any yeah x rate because again you have a homestead that's two acres and maybe other well and that's that's actually outside the a rate yeah well looks outside guys so this would be access for some other probably a low fee structure and again my question would be just are we creating a special situation that we can't defend so that's that's my concern would you see any issues with in the easement area the eight acres there's a driveway there is that you mentioned the solar trackers use of those whatever you call those who prove man's that  is there any issue with those improvements on the page property and the conservation easement no i don't i don't see any issue it's i think it's probably similar to the conservation easement on macadam own property there are certain  barn and you know a ticket booth and a parking lot and trails and as the easement is written it permits continued use of what's there it just doesn't permit  subdivision or further further development and if we do give a conservation easement to the other eight acres do week i don't understand the mechanics do we not no longer than collect the regular taxes we would give the others the six editors it wouldn't i think it would be taxed differently yet because of the differences that would create the situation a preference you know what would be preferential versus and i think the sixteen thousand you know in exchange seems like in exchange for giving the seventeen acres to the town for the town forest you know maybe that could be because that if that goes comes it no no cost to us right or one dollar right well i think i'd make it very difficult for the i don't want to speak for the pages i don't know but i could see were could make it difficult for them to feel comfortable donating the seventeen acres if they knew they were going to be hit with a sixteen thousand tax bill after they made such a you know a great donation was news oh it's not news it's just  the pages we have known about this fee and they've known that they've they you know they would be responsible for this so it's not they they're not they didn't come to ask asking for the conservation easement it's just something we thought you know it's just seemed to me that they're donating land and  i don't know i just it seems not very fair to have that cost him so much money but that's just my feeling  but the way the current use program works on the state level if they do that the remaining parcel they have left will no longer be available for current use benefit and that will cost them sixteen thousand dollars so in order to give the town seventeen acres of land they're going to be penalized by the state by sixteen thousand dollars really all we're doing is putting an easement on the rest of their property that will reduce that feast of stanley because it's a conservation easement and it's plus i think they they're interested in protecting the remaining of their property i mean they don't want to see it developed or subdivided so they have that interest as no thing right i mean they're giving seventeen acres to the town and then they're preserving from development the remaining you know and the other piece of it is there's also the read request from the conservation commission to consider the use of the to cover any remaining land  use change tax incurred by the pages and i understand that the only thing that my new question about that was is that a one time tax or is that a tax that happens on any basis the one time t our policy to normally do this to offer up these kinds of things i mean did we offer it to the pages did we talk to them about this we did ok and they did ask for it now and they did not approach us with this idea but it certainly made sense from the stuff you point to pursue that my mike when i asked the question about has the r f been used for this it was just more to see if we had a past precedents of this doesn't sound like we do know in the question becomes is this an appropriate use of the or after we concur with that was i going with this i mean one aspect of this i know the town has paid hundreds of thousands of dollars for some land to be conserved you know certainly if you're using that as as a factor in trying to make this decision you could see were would support twenty five hundred dollars to get eighty eight additional acres so yeah basically there's a description of the area of land which is necessary and then they list on page two all of the encumbrances currently on the property including wastewater number three under permit it uses which basically is going for the residents continuous single family residence with all the appropriate rights to correct and fix and maintain and then a new number for th but we don't understand the difference in tax rates or taxes that we would charge for the eight acres under the conservation easement versus what would normally be taxed that's a true statement don't don't believe that we need to answer that question tonight i think it would be wiser to answer the question about except in the east but we i think what what that what i'm hearing is there some interest in knowing what the tax implications are whether we accept the easement or not you know but if we don't accept these men what does that mean in terms of taxes but my impression is that the property isn't going to be developing yes but melinda before i answer that is is there any representations to us from leading to the next meeting and we have some more information in making a decision on this yeah the only time time sensitive thing is that  sing any town funds to yes ok relevant to like i don't see how there would be any possible preferential treatment relative to that i mean a lot of people in town have given the town conservation easements much word from it preferential treatment standpoint it just would be good information to have specially that shows there's very little tax i mean i've got to know what is the total groundless value of the properties that are subject to property taxes will stand it's more than more than two or three thousand dollars as i understand multiple hundreds of millions of dollars i'm not worried about the tax revenue being lost to the town so if that issue isn't there then the other only will only other one would be preferential treatment which again i don't consider this preferential treatment i don't either because it's taxed at what the fair market come in to talk about the bylaw amendment we discussed it at length to we see openly had the public hearing and there may be some questions the board has regarded that format and she came in on the weekend and so i said right there isn't anything of particular note in there other than we're running ahead on revenues which is a good thing and running short term expenditures in other words under budget on the expenditures of what we continue to have opening in both the police department and fire department i believe the fire department position is in the process of being filled right now and basis and right now the sales tax i believe is substantially ahead of where it was a year ago management last time one of the elements that received a lot of attention from the board and that this memo addresses is this concept in the high flyer project so these would be projects that would score so well under the revised criteria that they would be allowed to proceed through subdivision review without competing for allocation in the yearly earth management process and would not have to fit within the eighty unit per year cap that's otherwise established so this would be the only way that you could develop a residential project and we'll list and have it treated the way residential projects are treated everywhere else in the state of vermont because wilson is the only town that does both management so in trying to figure out what to recommend and about how just just how beneficial how much in service of the goals of the comprehensive plan would a project have to be to gain this exemption the planning commission recommended a finding made by the d r b that a project was going to score seventy points or better on a hundred point scale so one of the comments i heard from a board member was well gosh you know seventy's of a c minus that doesn't sound so great so keep in mind in willesden growth management thirty is a passing grade under this system thirty points minimum to get allocation at all there are actually a few exemptions from that  and the goal of the memo i prepared for you for tonight is to provide a little context about what that seventy point threshold looks like so i selected a project in each of the three allocation areas so there are separate geographic areas the growth center the remainder of the sewer service area that's not in the growth center and the ag role portion of town that's not on sewer at all and identified these are the three top scoring projects in growth management as it exists today one for each of those areas so we're talking about the cottonwood crossing project in taft corners in the growth center the north ridge project in the other sewer service area and the michael breus sub district so each of these project is the highest scoring project for its area but as i've mentioned in the draft revisions to growth management the criteria become more stringent difficult to achieve points these projects would not score as highly today under the proposed revisions as they did when they were scored by the d r v and i think most critically none of them would be high flyers as they were presented to the board and approved so all of the projects would need some kind of enhanced mint and broadly the first thing is that high flyer is set up in the draft to correlate heavily to the town's energy goals so today the standard for energy to get incentive points and growth management is energy star it's essentially understood as from almost everybody's meeting it and just kind of those are percent points in the system we go away from that to get a high flyer status you need to score at the top of your class in energy efficiency and this means all of the units meet the efficiency demat high performance elevated efficiency standard for the units themselves the project needs to generate at least three quarters of its projected energy demand on site through renewables so generally wind or solar there is an alternative to the seventy five percent on site generation that's proposed to be allowed which is four days worth of storage of demand for electricity on the site the theory behind that is if we do have a system in williston where we have wind and solar producing power you know power essentially in the absence of some kind of battery has to be consumed as it's produced and so what happens in the grid is when there's lots and lots of demand for electricity we have to go out and buy it from essentially more expensive and dirtier sources when you have battery storage when there's lots of lots of production happening like a very windy day were very sunny day there's at least some opportunity to store that energy and consume it thus consume it when you need it thus cutting the tops off those peaks of demand and not having to go as far afield to purchase the dirtier or more expensive energy so it lets you store more of your locally produced create energy keep it in the town  last from further away you know there are things out there like in the grid there are baseload power plants that are just there to kind of always provide whatever the demand is and there are peak plants that are less efficient and more expensive to run but they're really quick to turn on and so those are the kinds of things that happen across the grid as power demand goes up and down so storage it's an emerging thing you know we're seeing things like the tesla power wallets and even the use of your electric vehicle plug in overnight as storage of power when it's cheaper and there's some talk of really that smart grid of being able to feed back in so you're not making anything when you're storing it but you are allowing a much more efficient use of the greenest energy because that energy tends to be produced on an intermittent basis that doesn't align with demand so that's that's why storage is a possibility there as well so then it would all of the three projects would have to make commitments pretty much one hundred percent beyond the ones that they made in regards to energy efficiency and energy production to be high flyer projects and then each of them would also have to do something extra so in the case of cottonwood crossing this is the highest scoring project ever to go through growth management lowest ever ever eighty eight points  scored high in the current system primarily on the basis of providing the highest level of affordable housing that's incentivized in growth management so when i talk about things like the eighty percent median housing the stuff we never get  would actually provide some units in that eighty percent median category so this is a mixed use project one hundred seventy three dwellings seventy of them at one hundred twenty percent median income affordable thirty five at one hundred percent an eighteen eighty percent so that means that eighty percent of the area median income that household can afford one of those units spending no more than thirty percent of the household income on the unit so that's the standard for affordability so cottonwood will provide more in a greater diversity of affordable housing within the project than any other project ever ever has or has been proposed to in willesden nevertheless that eighty eight point score under the revised biological ups to about fifty five points and a lot of that is related to the way energy efficiency would be scored as i said to make it a high flyer you've got to do the top category for energy anyway so you could take that fifty five up to about a sixty five by doing the energy efficiency stuff that you have to nevertheless you still have to go find at least another five points in this proposed system cottonwood would need to add some sustainable transportation facilities maybe build a bus transfer center or make some publicly available electrical charge stations and within the draft there are some twenty eight of requirements so big projects have to provide more of that than small ones to get the credit for that preservation of an offsite open space parcel might be another way that in which cottonwood could get those few extra points so imagine cottonwood but much higher level of energy efficiency making seventy five percent of its power on site and doing something else in the realm of open space for sustainable transportation and you've you've got a high flyer project moving to the residential zoning district our other sewer service convert so you could you could just look at it as energy and understand right but but we do think you know if we look at the energy goals that are coming through in the comprehensive plan haven't the folks are working on next door tonight transitioning to elect pumps and electrifying more and more of residential heating is definitely a piece of the state energy goals so you know you could you could say well you know we're going to burn some wood and we're going to burn some natural gas and we're going to use  electricity but you can turn all of that into kilowatt hours in that where we'd be looking for seventy five percent of that in terms of the onsite production and storage kind of can i just ask an amateur going to come back to it later no go for it on the smarts i guess this concept i understand the concept if you're generating energy or if you are no i know somebody is building a home in the sticks and they want to be have a harder system so that if power goes out as it does sometimes in rural areas they have they're putting in like four tesla power laws i thought i mean how long that lasts are but if i understand that use but it is whole concept of putting in batteries power walls if you will to claim efficiency is is a little foreign if you don't have generation right there and you r or you have some complicated system that has that can draw  that's i guess that saves the power and at the rate or saves the energy at the right time i'm trying to figure out exactly how this makes it you know makes it makes this the housing project or the system more efficient i don't i'm i guess i'm at a loss to understand the concept here sure i understand if you're generating but i don't understand if you're not generally so maybe you're not generating but maybe there's a solar farm down the road that is  but you're not going to say you're going to how will you dump me you're going to dump energy out of these batteries and then pick it up when this this other system is generating otherwise you're just taking stuff off the grid right you're just pulling energy off the grid right so soon filling it up in kind of leaving it full and yet so there's you can you are using it there's a couple ways you can do that i mean you know the grid works best when everything's sort of all interconnected and you can't necessarily sort of name one electron you know flowing through it is absurd to say you know what in this town this is from a coal plant but what you what you can do is by having storage you can you can offset the need to kick on those those more carbon intensive sources so it may it may not be that you are offsetting the creation of you know very dirty power and in willesden because we you know we don't generate like that right but there are there are you know you you might have a battery because your project is not in a place that's good for solar and somebody else might have a solar farm but but no demand because that maybe they just decided to build a solar farm which is typically what we see you know right now we don't see a lot of these serve integrated projects where i'm going to build houses and i'm going to build panels the existing solar farms in willesden just feed into the grid and that electricity but it's a major it's a major challenge with renewables that you're making all this electricity and you're not making it in response to demand you're making it in response to the wind is blowing well the sun is shining in terms of on a on a more micro scale you're gone for the day you're off at work you're your air conditioners not running really hard but it's very very sunny out and you're making lots of electricity and you come home at night the sun's gone down your panels not making any electricity now it's lovely if that's all happening just on your home site but it works much better when it's all interconnected and so this is this is an acknowledgment of that and i think honestly just saying see you know encouraging all this green energy is great but it's even better if it comes with storage that means we actually can can use it when we need it i understand that when you generate in storage i'm just this other concept i'm not actually i'm still not very clear on it i have to because i have to think about it more and is it is it is practiced anywhere this kind of storage without up on the latest and greatest of the lead standard for example but i know there are program magic certification programs where if you want to say where a green building where a green campus leaves you know providing storage is one way of achieving some points in that in that calculation and i could see saving during one time and then you know during non peak hours and then using it during maybe during peak hours yeah and could be that gets to my question is is there a requirement for instance with the battery four days of storage in a battery that for the electric company determines when that's when that literally can go to the batteries versus when it can't because the electric company probably is the best at deciding when it's electricity they're expensive or coming from dirty sources versus cleaner sources right i think it's generally it's going to happen via pricing you know what we're seeing with the latest electrical vehicle technology is you know you go home and plug your car into the wall but you've you've told your car don't start buying electricity until it gets cheap after seven o'clock at night so it's there's a there's a market element in there so it's maybe not the power company reaching out and saying i'm not going to put anything in your battery but they're saying you know i'll put some in and if you really need to charge that right now but if you wait and wait till later it'll be cheaper here understand and the other question was is batteries i would say that the power was in some of the older home storage solutions that are coming out they actually are a great way to get a second life out of an even battery cost so electric vehicles need batteries that perform at a very high level they and  start to be maybe they're only eighty percent as good as they used to be you we're starting to see those batteries get put into power banks at generators and other places because they're still just fine for adding whole they have a whole other life when you don't need to drive down the road anymore so it's it's not entirely facetious ask about evey's so when i talked about the growth center a little bit i did want to go over the other two examples briefly  northridge is our residential example so total project i said forty dwellings to actually been knocked back to thirty nine cents then but just in in perspective of those thirteen attached units twenty seven detached single family nine affordable at one hundred percent area median income highest scoring project ever in the sewer service area outside the growth center that score was a forty four point five so to go  to high flier status a project like north ridge would need to do more to get there than a project like cottonwood you would probably need to see more affordable housing because that's that's a twenty point category in our scoring system you need you need to score or all of those the sustainable transportation component again could help maybe some even further advance neighbor neighborhood space facilities the project didn't score exactly focal points on that and this is a project that comes with a park in the pool and the pool house and things like that so there you know it's there it's just there could be more possibly building more multi use path segments and again there is a multi use path segment that's part of the site that it did receive points for maybe offering another in greater diversity of housing types so there is a diversity of housing types in there but there's not every housing type under the sun so we think of the cottonwoods and probably more of  finny crossing is the most diverse in terms of the span of housing types everything from a one bedroom apartment to a you know standalone single family home so forty four point five under the current system i get a thirty five point five under  these are as high as we've gotten and we need we what you would need to go higher to but the examples is you're trying to shows just how great these projects would have to be desirable yes to that he's trying to give you examples of what the current where they stored where they scored into the current versus what they would score under the amended and then just how much for that they need to go not only to get them like that well no no no no that's what i meant i mean he's trying to show as examples of how far these what we're good projects are some of the best of them how much more they would have to be to give it be given this preferential treatment if indeed they were to do that that's that's that's right so you know none of these would it on their own today the bar is high set higher than any of them have or have reached and you know we i think also the planning commission to speak for them you know they want this to be a very high bar but they do want it to be at least somewhat in reach that you know we would love to see some folks at least try to get their you know one hundred point scale we could just say you need to get one hundred points but we start to run into things like not every project has a path segment that needs to be built not every project has good solar exposure or for example in the ag wers where we're dealing with the bruce project which scored very high because it set aside a piece of permanently protected open space under easement by a third party so not only did they set aside open space but someone else is keep an eye on it other than the town this is this was dedicated through the model land trust  sixty point project under the system as it sits today i get fifty five if i apply the enhanced criteria there were no energy efficiency measures so the t houses that were created the potential for two houses created on this site would have to be much more efficient and then probably it looked like the other way to add something would be either to do some screening or make one of the two houses perpetually affordable at probably one hundred percent am i it's very very hard for a project that creates fewer than say ten to eling units to do anything around affordable at all because there's just not enough market stuff to to subsidize it so you know again this is a pretty great project this project resulted in you know the permanent protection of one hundred forty acres of land in  rural illust and in exchange for allowing a farmstead plus one more house on it and you know i i can remember in my early times in williston reviewing a pre application for this very parcel that placed on each of these two blocks basically one house on each corner of these two blocks and you know would have really broken it up this was a big win for the town still not a high flyer and so you'd have to see that energy efficiency and generation and some other things for this to get up there so whereas i'm sorry when i looked at this i was a little confused so all of that seventy seven sixteen seventeen and twenty three are all conserved yes and the right perry and buffer are the three and the three and four percept in the house goes where in the section called in the section called fourteen point eight five acres excluded there's a home site inside of that it's just one home site it's fairly close up to butter not road which is the the northern boundary of the site and then the other one is actually contains i believe the existing house it's labeled six acres farmstead complex and right now the part of that is one vermont land trust preserve something like this they want to make sure they're preserving something where there could be a working farm that somebody could live on so there's a dwelling unit that comes with that so the excluded is where they say that's the subdivision feel that was essentially that that was essentially the subdivision lot that was created we're done with your example i mean i think you know might buy takeaway is i'm not sure that that requiring much more than seventy points would would be feasible  somebody said at one point to me well what if everybody just comes in with high flyer projects from now on so well number one number one you have a lot of you know really very good projects but number two you know you could revisit this and you could you could decide to you know move the bar up higher because technology had gotten better but it's even even under this change that we're not highflyer concept doesn't doesn't ultimately say whether the town is going to approve that development or not it only says if you if you scored this high you can build more units than what our growth management limits are per year yes it doesn't this isn't really  creating it it's a way to get past that was eighty you need per year and the competitive cap and the fact that it only happens here which can you know can can be a challenge myself so yeah you know growth management is one chapter there are forty five other chapters in byelaw that have all kinds of down from where development can go and what it has to look like and how it gets accessed and its density and what uses are allowed and all of those other things are still play here so this is you you do all those things that are required and you do these things that are incentivized in growth management is really just a way to crease how quickly you can get your development up and running it's an insert yeah whether the develop ever happen in the first place it's an incentive in a demanding environment where say lots of other projects had already soaked up a lot of those eighty units per year or more they were soaked up over a number of years out into the future and your project just wasn't going to be feasible if you had to you know look at it it's past maybe you can't start for a couple of years because your first allocation is is way out in the future this would be a way to say well here's a way arise i would also say you know  people have asked me many times over the last ten years people who are looking at a piece of land in west and we go and explain growth management to them and they look at you and they say that's really for strict of it is there any way around that and  truth there is it nobody has ever taken it but we have a chapter in the biological specific plan which is essentially you write your own zoning district for your parcel and then you build the project that fits that district and you could somebody has asked in the past well if i wrote a specific plan could i write my district out of growth management and the answer is yeah you you could the select board would have to approve it it's a legislative act and it would be this sort of one by one sort of thing of judging the public of that development against the impact of changing the zoning this is kind of a way of getting ahead of that and saying no we know what we want out of residential development that's so so good that we'll let it not compete growth management and here it is so it's a way of making a statement instead it now instead of having a dialogue with somebody so i could repeat what i just heard a very interesting concept so because it's before us in your analysis here in fiscal thank you is this a very nice job very helpful but picking on the cut would crossing project they could come in and say we would like to pursue a specific plan just for our subdivision here's the benefits so you know town would you be willing to approve that through the specific prime process ok very and so that their estate was correct  yes and not at all assuming district bigger than cottonwood crossing but cottonwood crossing itself yeah you could write a essentially a special zoning district this is done all the time in lots of places there and when i worked in missoula there were fifty six special zoning districts in the city you know swiss cheese and then doing it that way comes with a lot of challenges it's a lot harder to maintain focus on your comprehensive plan goals on your you're dealing with sort of this demand based system i would really view something like these are members to growth management as a way of getting ahead of that and getting to say what you want long before the project is there sort of trying to negotiate with you just feel i would be remiss without pointing this out again and i'm if you will that liability there's all the benefits to this and i mean i don't get me wrong i'm not this comment is not a statement against my recognizing that but being able to go forward in a single year you could see that theoretically yes thank you director craig i would i would say that the decision to offer something like this in growth management by the planning commission in part was based on looking at the map of the growth center and realizing that there are no more parcels like cottonwood in existence in the growth center nor are there any like fifty not none the better that large that flat on constrained you know so that's a piece of that is understanding what's the what's the remaining capacity of the town what's the build out if you will of gone to high flyers you know that we've had that we've had two very high scoring projects in the growth center is good we we step over into the r c d which which is you know no slouch this is another place the towns planning for growth right we serve it with sewer we allow three units per acre and our highest scoring project  is quite a bit lower than the bar for a high flyer today and there's only so many parcels left there are quite a few but there's only so many left and i think there's an element of if if the town can encourage those remaining parcels to really fulfill the goals of the comprehensive plan via a mechanism like this it's worth it's worth trying there's nothing that could happen that could affect the services or you know tell services personally that we couldn't catch up to well so the first part is you can do all of this that you want in the context of growth management you still have to have the sewer capacity to sell and  know i if this were to pass when i when i come to the board in a little while with attachment a i would probably be recommending that if you adopt a high flier that you set aside some sort capacity to support it we could come up with a number for that only for high flyers only for high flyer just like you've done in the past for solely for affordable orders or solely for your job creation that kind of thing and  an element there of what we can only run as fast as that very real limit allows us to run and i think in terms of some of the other services you know we think about transportation emergency services ability to do all those  things this plays in with the rest of the comp plan and via why that focus is growth and development into a very limited area that's very well connected with transportation infrastructure that's arguably  less expensive an easier to serve then if we were sort of sprawling all over all over town and so the ability to serve this kind of growth is better because of where it is proposed to happen but my question is on the when you say project that being in the seventy five percent power generation or the four days is project a house or is project a cut crossing think or is it the allocation that somebody that's going for like five houses or what is it with what does that mean it would be so in the case of a cottonwood where it's a mixed use project there's there's residential and commercial going on it's the whole project so you would look for seventy five percent power generation for that whole right i mean you're talking about probably solar on every rooftop you can get it on maybe some canopies over parking lots maybe in in concert with some of that storage element would i think it would be you know a stretch of four days of power yes storage area here for the whole thing yeah so there are other elements in growth management i would draw the parallel to things like  you know providing neighborhood space providing certain design elements where you're incentivizing growth management which is all about how many dwellings you can build but when you have a mixed use project you can sort of look at well there's a green over here and it's got some commercial buildings on it but it also is useful for the people who live there in fact it's better if everybody's using it that attribute can be counted toward the scoring for the residential allocation it might also be a required element for the commercial side under  design criteria but we would look at the project as everything that's happening on that p i mean i remember back to when we first put in the eighty units a year the way how many maybe i'm just i'm tied to the past but every concern i've phrased matt's had a good answer for me and so when that's the case i don't see how i can support the man i had a bunch of questions on because i wasn't here i was in the fifth i was on in florida  so can i i guess i can abstain can i abstain from the vote then of course most of steam if there's no further discussion all those in favor of the motion say i i not that i don't agree i like what i heard but there are a bunch of questions from the the original stuff you went over on the fifth i think for me when i watched the broadcast that we had two weeks ago we had a lot of discussion ok hold a grievance hearing move on and premature public knowledge regarding the employee grievance would place the employee at a substantial disadvantage and further move to enter into executive session i had provisions of