good afternoon members thank you for being here the meeting of the housing human services and transportation committee now come to order it is one thirty two p m on thursday january twenty first twenty six corporation counsel jerry shepherd deputy corporation counsel thank you for being here also we'll have with us later when we're done that testimony we have some very expert with us today from the u s department of transportation and we'll be bringing them down later on also with us and like to express special thank you to committee secretary tammy freeze and our legislative analyst michelle yoshimura members we have a single item on the agenda today so thank you thank you ladies for individuals who will be testifying in the chamber please sign up at the desk located it in the eighth floor lobby just outside the chamber door if you will be testifying from the remote testimony locations specified on the meeting agenda please sign up with the council staff at that location testimony will be limited to the item listed on the agenda today pursuant to the the counsel each testify or will be allowed to testify for up to three minutes i don't with one minute to conclude if requests that testify please state your name and the name of chair kind council members i'm jonathan starr i'm here on my own they have today and i've been following the m p r process for a number a number of years  coming from having a feeling that when i was chair of the planning commission that a lot of the transportation decisions were being made somewhere else and kind of were falling on us from the sky and that really the selection of projects for the step not able to use tap money which i believe was supposed to be ten percent of the transportation budget but at the time seem to be being used for the reserve and that's transportation alternatives programs which kinds of projects that are kind of human human friendly rather than just moving freight and then i found out that you know from one ford future economy kamen as head of h r that handed out some photos of the advisory committee of the awful m p o and i feel listening to the discussions here on maui it people look at this as some kind of sad obligation that's being put on the county but really this is a great opportunity and looking at the workbook from the course i remember that it really is about bringing the community into the process and having the  process and transportation funding decisions being made for the benefit of the community and also for good planning principles such as reducing the amount of vehicle miles that need to be driven and making the roads and the sidewalks safer and creating just a multi modal planning process and if we are able to implement the thing right that's what we'll have on a while who there is community participation in the m p o you know i remember there's a guy randall sykes susa a community representative and he chairs the citizens advisory group which these pictures show and i went to a meeting there about fifty people and mayors conference room and honolulu holiday and it was the community and the community groups that were prioritizing what was going to go on the steps so if anyone wants to hear more about that they can ask me questions or catch me offline butt there's a great opportunity and i hope it really leads to a much better process here on maui thank you and a thank you being that we have no one else in the gallery or at the district offices would like to testify at this time if there is no objections i'd like to in the  now i'm going to call a short recess looking set up to have our resource people who are here as well as our connection with our department of transportation  nine metropolitan policy and planning organization the committee as a receipt of the following communication fifteen dash two nine four from the director of transportation transmitting the following bill to authorize the mayor to enter into an intergovernmental agreement with the state of poverty to establish the metropolitan organization to enable the county to receive federal funding for transportation planning and carry are already needing an integrated metropolitan transportation planning in accordance with twenty three united states code sections point three four and one three five and chapter two seven nine d hawaii revised statutes to correspondence data january thirteenth twenty sixteen from the chair myself of the committee to the department of the cooperation council transmitting the following our revised proposed bill entitled a bill for an ordinance amending title to metropolitan planning organization the purpose of the revised proposed bill is men titled to with the state of hawaii to fulfill federal and state transportation planning requirements relating to the mostly bunch of politicians planning organization the purpose of the revised proposed bill is to authorize the to enter into an agreement and the form attached as exhibit b to the revised proposed bill relating to the most metropolitan planning organization the committee may consider whether to recommend passage of the revised proposed bills on first reading with the without further revisions the committee may also consider the filing of county communication fifteen dash two nine four and other related action so where and where in receipt of revised proposed bills which were distributed at the start of today's meeting and it is the chair proposed bill at this time i'd like to do it again and introduce our resource personnel and i appreciate and thank you for taking the time out for making a trip here to mali to assist us and by telephone we also have from the state department of transportation highways division planning branch mr cannon that's a good chief thank you for being with us m in the chamber we have elizabeth fisher from the u s department of transportation federal highway administration and mr ralph resolve assistant division administrators with the u department of transportation federal highway administration we also have available here in the chamber as resources representatives hundred department of transportation and public works so we'll have our discussion then we'll have open up for questions and any with the state and federal resources that we have here and then we'll have questions if you have any for public's work such transportation as well and then we'll try and leave you are a vice proposed bill so at this sign members i'd like to open up t to our department thank you chair thank you for having us here today on this important matter and we're here to answer any questions and move forward wanted to let you know that this morning we were fortunate enough to have this fisher and mr result spend a great deal of time with us going through this agreement before you today and we came up with a few additional minor changes to it at whatever point you want we could discuss concert do you have any comments at this time yes i'd just like to clarify that attachment that you have my january nineteenth memo the first three pages attach there to is the first proposed bill the next thing you see is labeled exhibit one now imagine paulton planning organization comprehensive agreement that's actually in the wrong place and it is not exhibit one to that ordinance exhibit two that ordinance which is exhibit one  proposed bill with the comprehensive agreement as an exhibit to it you have one extra copy labeled exhibit one appearing four pages into my memo if you want to use that as a working copy to mark on you could you know that you could take a partner and have a full memo correct and that would be an additional copy that you don't need right that place to confuse anybody yes my january nineteenth memo should then have attached to it as a three page proposed ordinance which is the bill amending title to and right after that should be that january eighteenth two thousand and thirteen letter as exhibit  and the stuff in between the oreo filling should be not there june eighteenth two thousand and thirteen that's exhibit a to that first proposed right after that letter is the second proposed bell and attached to it so in essence to have an additional copy of the comprehensive agreement stuck in between the letter and the proposed first proposed  so last committee meeting committee you have lots of questions about the formulation i guess purpose and organization of the metropolitan planning organization if you can give us a just brief overview of the m p o i guess or or the metropolitan planning organization transportation planning and consultation coordination with the state and the local governments that are in the metropolitan area the basic basic requirement is that the metropolitan planning organization conducts transportation planning for that region in coronation with those groups they do so under a work program that they submit annually they're provided federal funding called  metropolitan planning funding to do that work and what they need to produce is a long range transportation plan that is updated every five years and then the transportation improvement program which can go out as long as five years in this case and that's basically the list of projects that you plan to use federal funds on and also anything that's regionally significant even if you don't plan to use federal funding but  basically if a project isn't on that that lists the tip list or the tip then we can authorize federal funding for that project in your area i think that's the basic summary of what state and then how does that work you guys have priority how do you do the priority listing on that and then you run me through it really quick the long madam chairman thank you for the opportunity and council members the long in the short of it is that the transportation improvement program is a project budget for the metropolitan planning area which in this case has been designated here on maui county the m p o will now do the it basically is shifting that the metropolitan planning organization rather than have it will be a more locally focused activity means it's local people at the table making the priority choices the federal government does not make prior to choices it is you through the policy board of the mowing planning organization who will make the decision through technical advice etc and you know i  get that part of it but how do you how do you then decide which projects get priority do you get all of the policy board does that the public policy board is the decision making body of the metropolitan planning organization and that's outlined in the comprehensive agreement that you have in front of you but then then at once you've created the priorities how do you then determine which island gets the next one you know we we we don't set the project priorities in this in the so use you transferred over to the step with the your tip is a prioritized list of projects in your your planning area that that is the the prioritized list that portion of the of the step so the projects on maui island will be on your tip that goes into the step in home without without any changes and then once it gets into the stiff it then gets moved further prioritize on which is this shovel ready and not right now explained by federal statute and regulation metropolitan planning organization they come as a bucket of projects that have been prioritized that have been a fight for what funds for available those buckets one from maui one for a wahoo those buckets go into the statewide step the state transportation improvement program and no one can change those lists except coming back through the metropolitan planning organization it's the local choice it's not state choice and it is definitely not federal choice it is your choice at the local level saying this is what we want this is what we have prioritized through the metropolitan planning process which is why the policy board is the decision making body that says this is what we who represent the people of this island under this body say these are the transportation projects that move forward and they go forward into the state overall state state step to thank you  is a project budget misplaced yes thank you very much dear and thank you very much it is been for being here this afternoon and for your curfew cation i think it's important that we realize that this along the lines of the amendments are we going to get copies of them i don't see them in my folder if not will do with that but the question i have  hawaii all put their stuff into the step at that point there's you know we only get one hundred eighty million dollars a year from the feds from you guys at that point there's probably billions of dollars worth of requirement though they have to be fiscally constrained so then does the maui m p o say you got to spend this much money so we are given a certain amount of money is that amount of money the same every year or is it based on what projects are ready the so part part of one of the subsequent agreements that the m p o will be working with the state on is everything is revenue forecasting so in other words that of that amount of money and so what amount of money or is the m p o going to have to program and that that's that's something that's worked out  depends on how you set it up but it's going to be at least every five years that the state the m p o agree on the revenue that's going to be programmed within this metropolitan area and that's based on it can be based  on there's there's certain funds that you know come directly to you and there's other funds that that you know are coming in through the state system and that'll be worked out by by the state the m p o well there will be direct funds now  longer going through the state yeah there are there there's a certain pot of money that sub allocated it's called the surface transportation program block grant program now it just changed the name on me and i had all my acronyms down of course congress but there is so yes there will be a certain portion of that that is is sub allocated directly to to the county and  i understand that whole part but i know the way this tip was working before is that if a cow project in maui county couldn't get off of you know we were scheduled to get the money we're going to do it for whatever reason we couldn't do it that money goes back to your group and it goes to a different island sometimes potentially that's what happens or it tries to go to a different project on maui's portion of the step but i do know of a project that it actually went to quiet after we said we really didn't want to do the project with this type of organization going on now can that still happen it depends it depends on the the funding i would say but generally yes i mean it it all this money comes to the state base and it starts with the state so any kind of reprogramming that might that might be done would be an in in connection with the state com if it's a state project it might go to another island if it's on your projects then ideally you're going to have some projects that you can move up from later years that you can bring in more light more the question i would have is seiko i says we don't want to do this project just like we did our money went to quite they said we don't want it now it's available again had a project that maui didn't want to do so the money went to co op a couple years back maybe ten fifteen years back same type of thing of quiet or the big island or even a while who has a project that they say they can't do or don't want to do chair that leads right to the question and i think mr cruz when asked as well who makes that decision on the redirect is that the m p r are we going to be told by the state we're going to take some of your money so the question basically is who actually makes the final decision when dollars need to be director is it the is it that you believe if it's going to be ted who makes that decision is it the state department of transportation or is it the federal people or is it the m p all the policy board mentioned can they clarify the difference between the state what is state and what is the local because to me that would be you know if there is a disaster on quietly that's also local so how do they reiterate that you know the state is one of the members of the policy board of the m p o so they'll be there at the table the whole time should fund should extra funds become available and projects are know the state system with federal funds the state's going to you know i have a large say and what happens there county projects with the with the money that's attributable to the area i think by and monkey wrench so this metropolitan planning is maui island only we still have more kind when i who handles that is that goes back to the state metropolitan area group  so that's even kind of a stranger because this is our county and it should be handled i don't know it should be it could be but it's not because the governor does ignited the island of maui as the metropolitan planning area part of it was in to address future land and recognition of f mention just a few moments ago that stays in place but it means that now for this island there's more focus local decision making on what is needed by this island a of the county the metropolitan planning organization is separate and distinct body from the county it is not a county agency it's not a state agency it's not a federal agency is an independent agency so th consideration off opting out and i think that this is something secretary fox and i will be talking about you know next three weeks the boat how it impacts the counties that may not have the advantage is of larger urban areas so for me i'm kind of puzzled about this whole island circle and it's interesting this is all done by the ministry of people never came to the policy bodies and ask us what we thought  especially when includes funding and my understanding is that this m p who is going to get eighty percent from the federal government and their budget goes to the federal entities for review but never comes to the locals to see if we are willing to agree to whatever we have to fund and i don't feel obligated as an appropriate under our charter to fund if i don't agree so the same that the h r s requires that we hired an executive director and we figure one staff we would be adequate to help at least at this point it's an assumption on our part and so we and that's to be determined we're not certain of what the salaries would be at this point but we're estimating tick get approximately one hundred four hundred thousand from for matching for federal funds eighty thousand yes but if you refuse well then we would be able to form the m p o follow follow h r s which requires us to hire executive director and some you you know if you didn't you can ask us to approve this and i think we need all the information some of the information particularly if we require it to and i want to bring this up so it's kind of interesting but this county to ask us for those costs another part you have is on the p p p the participation plan you force are assuming or telling me you can use the council and the councils committee to do their work and we shall serve as their policies form conductors we look at another part we're going to support services for advisory committees that the m people run and so this is the m p you can enter into supplemental agreements with the county department and this in there i'm assuming that takes council approval of those agreements understanding answers responses again council members we've mentioned the other day this is mandated by federal law and we're trying to follow federal law so what what's in the agreement that you see before you is the basis that we have to follow we do have a few things we want to change from shall to may not very substantive changes but essentially you're right these things have to occur but our focus at this point is to get the creation of the m p o so that we can follow federal law we can be compliance with federal law if we do not then the ramifications are we could lose federal money a lot of federal money you know since this was done between the mayor and to go into your boat what it used to turn the clock back and not well then i guess we would put i guess that's a probably a better question for the feds let them give you th you answer mister but that's a good to exit from this participation so i'd like to ask him if he has any further comments that he'd like to add to any of this discussion participation and i know that weekend continue to depend on on your department's support answers any question mahalo plenty have a good afternoon yes mr chair for you think you you know for me it appears to be just another layer of bureaucratic one so it's going to add cost is now going to have to pay more people to do the same job we currently doing and the release from the report meant to the counties and we worked hard to recapture that thirty percent that map to any one area and given the states additional financial support we got it back with a fast  worked hard to get this five year program and we lobbied hard to get congress to help move this forward so for me and our rule from the national standpoint of counties  it doesn't add up for me at this point in time and there's going to need to be a lot of work for me to people for into it especially if it's going to dictate how we're going to do certain things in the budget thank you i can understand your concern is what we're going to come up with the county dollars that will participate so if we have available if i understand so many millions of dollars with the twenty percent of the four hundred thousand give us leveraging opportunities to bring in these so called federal funds and if we don't formally this does that deprive us of receiving these federal cooperative and easy to wear quite so i'm real happy to find him on that end so it was relief to me i wanted him to know that thank you thank you  talked we were a little confused too we thought wow big island or not it's so we actually wrote back and said thanks but no thanks that's one of the reasons it took a while he says we had a unwind that as we learned more so case could not doubt so we had to learn to opt in and go through the process and understand more about the progress we did spend a lot of time with miss fisher  and understood that it is like an unfunded mandate we do have the opportunity receive some additional planning funds as we move forward obviously to participate in the tap mr starke talked about will be coming along as the state lines or unveils the program if you will so we have we went through a learning process too and we've also tried to make it as streamlined as possible so initially we've basically been operating on our own without executive director it's not official m p o but it's basically the same folks my deputy director mark been  sentially handling the duties as much as possible and so i was a little dismayed to see that now there's a new state law but the state will have to get a you know again how do we know i don't like those so in some ways our hands feel a little bit tight here but we do see the opportunities are moving forward with the m p o it's taken us a little while to come that realization and i'm just sharing this because of the background i've had the last few years on it and the company this comprehensive agreement does set a basic framework but there's a lot of work to be done and we did spend as most of the morning with these fine folks from the federal highways we talked about but before today but then it was my ok what next you know how do we get what are the steps you want us to see see done to get this up and running what do you see another n p l specially the small new ramp ales across the country you know where the stumbling blocks and so we did spend a lot of time today this morning talking about those next steps and i just want to give you that all review because shared with the community so again using the deck to the unfunded mandate and since we haven't been doing it and i was going to be required to do it by statute i considered it and the state constitution is something the state has to be discounted to from we had this in my committee of couple years ago and have the exact same questions why do we need this and at that time he was the president of neko and had probably opportunity may still have the opportunity potentially work with the federal government instead you know what the hawaii's unique or smaller counties like maui is unique and we might be able to get an exemption from this if that were the case if you were able to do something like that what what monies would we not get i mean we haven't had we best out on a bunch of money from being our last five six years even thousand people my thought is if he can do his magic and exempt us are we going to lose out on a lot of money that's the question who might be able to answer that you need any  response well the good news is is that there are something called federal planning funds that come to support staffing tasks activities that are requirement under federal highway it's called p l planning and under f d a it's fifty three zero three urbanized area funds that go specifically to planning and those go to metropolitan planning organization activities that's the eighty percent of what financially support making m p o operate to match comes from and it's typically comes from the participating agencies which would be public works transportation state d o t and how and it's between those three bodies that determines who puts in how much of what piece but the bottom line is eighty percent of how much money planning organization operates is paid for provided to you by the federal government and that's the shorthand i understand that you so we were still twenty percent that were the case my question is what funding from outside i mean are we talking millions of dollars project funds or whatever where we already got bus funds from a different federal mandate or not many but for different federal there are potential to potential to be out and i say potential because i haven't looked at the specific numbers to be honest specific numbers go into the metropolitan area transportation alternatives program which is on fast fact is redefined how that's taken care of addresses how the allocation to metropolitan areas is addressed for surface transportation also changed under the tent fast act how that's bottom line is if you look at fast act metropolitan planning organizations actually have an increase in dollars over twenty one and all prior pieces of legislation and as i have read it and how we staff have been briefed by our front office in d c of what the fast acts done and what changes is made and that's one of the pieces that metropolitan organizations actually get an increase in funds for regional transportation planning and projects that's in relation to metropolitan planning organizations you have those that aren't in metropolitan planning or easy actions what is the difference in level of funding out versus in i guess because we also have to pay because of this urbanization criteria we had public works has to deal with the m s four stuff as well all of a sudden we have new again unfunded i'm being told that these are unfunded mandates so i still would like to see if if mr okama can do his magic with the feds but not at a cost of oh my gosh we're going to lose the you know twelve million dollars a year for buses etc as opposed to what we have to spend on all the other stuff because of how recent the fast act is is just passed our headquarters office hasn't given us all the numbers yet so i can't i don't have a number but there  amount of of the surface transportation program block grant that is sub allocated has been increased from it was fifty percent fifty five percent so more of that money is being s the numbers yet because they haven't had a chance to conscionable so it's that the sub allocated money that is for the areas between five and two hundred thousand and it's it's not so much you would lose it you do it that's cut you won't be able to program it is more what it comes down to so that the state would be programming it like they do now twenty thirteen i mean you were behind three years it that's one of the pieces that there has been we could say some loss but since the activities have it and it's one of those gray areas the other piece is that and this is something that we've talked with staff about is project there projects for instance to do a south maui transportation study well instead of department of public works paying for it the m p o would pay for that it takes and that's so then the is shifting who gets to pay for it and where's the money coming from to pay for these kind of studies well that means it takes a load off of these guys and puts it to the m p o to make that kind of study happen  and i don't know who would be paying for that study except out of your budget in toto because i don't see it on the step which means then that would be one hundred percent county maybe some negotiation with the state but more likely entirely the county would pay for it versus the metropolitan buying organization pays for eighty percent and then the m p l and its financial partners twenty percent would come into balance so it's actually a win to have this added body because it's an extra money mr wayne thank you i think the question is whether or not we have lost project funding and and whether there is more will more project funding be available if we become an m p o versus if we do not does it does it change the the funding mechanism yes i would say no but remember the requirement is that you know we can't authorize federal funds for projects unless they're on a t home planning area because there's no tip so there so for projects not listed on a tip because there's no test then and there's no no no chip in the step from this metropolitan planning area that means there's not going to be any step fund any step projects or any any federally aided projects in this metropolitan area where obviously that isn't in the it's not on the horizon definitely you know as long as you know everybody's been working really well it's not but you know ultimately if you ask that question that's so the ultimate so if we have no change in the project funding one way or the other the only change is that we  the planning process becomes more i guess localized possibly formalized yes actually yeah definitely that that was the idea i think i'm behind what congress is doing with metropolitan planning organizations is to have that planning more at the local regional level rather than you know to bring the regions up to to more of an even footing with the state deities is the idea behind thank you thank you thank you any further questions making the decision since we're the elected representatives of the people and we are the appropriators for the people i think we can review that further with the shepherd from cooperation council shepherd trying to reread the state law i don't have any of these laws memorized and that's not something we work with on a daily basis so if you're just excuse me for a moment take a look air bagan you know if legal counsel needs time to do the appropriate under our research to give us a good response i'm happy with that about the metropolitan planning organising policy boards membership and meetings in the state law says policy board membership shall be established by a comprehensive agreement including any set applicable supplemental agreements and any bylaws and as appropriate any agreement or those bylaws that establish policy board membership may also include specifications regarding ex officio membership terms term limits of members member alternate quorums and other considerations as permitted by law and there is something that says and i don't know exactly where it is but i'm hoping i can find it that if there are participation by members of any other board in a meeting of a policy board  permit interaction group so it does comply with with the sunshine law and less than a quorum of policy board members so if we have the set up that is currently proposed and we have three with the board members who are from the council two or non voting month voting if we have that set up they can talk to each other about this planning stuff without violating the sunshine law i think we're trying to clarify who are the members right so the comprehensive agreement is required the membership is something that can be determined this is one version if you want to different version it may be something that we have to explore a little more in detail but i don't see that it's prohibited my question would be you know is that the best use of everybody's time or is a representation from the council as better use of everybody's time i don't think are asking for that opinion which is fine trying to find out who are the members  to one of the early sections into seven nine d where it talks about federal reg of federal law superseding all state and local laws number one whenever there's a question or conflict that's very important read if it's in your state will statute now yeah basically the federal regulations talk about m p o having shall consist of a local elected officials officials of public agencies that administer or operate major modes of transportation in metropolitan planning area and appropriate state transportation officials so in the draft a comprehensive agreement which you have in front of me we have all in front of us does go to that very point of having representations for this body the members of council goes to having representatives from public works d o t and state transportation and then i has also couple ex officio members of council so then that's more than a think you're covered basically your question has been addressed and is covered from our perspective from the state statutory perspective that there is a voice and that a representative from the overall council or several representatives actually by this draft conference of agreement does go to i would think serving the point  addressing the point that you're making oh and by the way county planning is also a member of that body as proposed thank you is fisher and this is an agreement because my understanding is and is to make the change or who has five council citizens are your residence chair one of the i guess one of the questions i was getting at the cap funds that mr starr was talking about those aren't available to us if we weren't you know if mr okama did is a miracle and got us out of that procure with right ok so that that's true some funding that we would be missing out on when this whole thing gets going because it it is not part of the county it's not part of the states not part of the federal funds would come through the state to the county department of transportation and then we would flow the funds through our department into the  be their own because it's their own entity technically they're supposed to be away from the county other than they have members of the of the council and and as a follow up to that you know the suggest one voting council member and two ex officio not having council members any particular reason for that and not just three voting council member so i think that came from the department ok we can change that right i this would then be a grant through department of transportation to the planning organisation there so we would do it in our the so you would come to mean it misplaced i can answer that for us you know it's not a grant pass through it's a it's basically a whole idea t by federal statute actually is required to take those federal planning funds and pass directly through them hawaii d o t directly to the metropolitan hunting organisation don't ask questions don't stop it goes directly to it because we provide all the funds directly to the state and the state passes through it's not a grant it's a pass so you go straight to the m p u yes or so the i have to come to your county budget it's not quite the way we have it set up administratively it would be in our budget the funds would come from the feds the state through our budget and so in our budget to the county so it would show the federal us but our understanding when we're going to this process the administrative function of you know our employer was kind of tied with the state and saw what a little bit different is that we were the ones pushing oyo heart and and seeing county provides find so of the twenty percent basically is that one third on that one third each i guess each each agency provides one hundred of them out for a county for our county or any person the state's going to pay about ten percent fifteen percent of people would see like fifty to sixty percent of the twenty percent that that is that yes that is what we are looking at doing their part of the reason part of there is a section about supplemental agreements and those supplement agreements will have to come in front of council because in compu come up with the other ten percent yeah supposed to be in the supplemental agreement that would which show what i guess the finances would be i would urge the counsel after everything that's been said here is to please allow us to move forward with this with the m p o and once we've done that that huge cloud will be lifted off from over our head that we could lose money got that's my big concern at this point and then allow us to work with a council and and and and the board to come up with somebody sneaker the stuff that's going to have to come to you but i just like to get the boss out of the station so that we were we were legal and that the feds won't be holding you know that that it's will be held we won't be held hostage for federal money i really urge you to do consider supporting a gas tax increase to help fund the needs of the m p o and what that will be coming from the county portion so and we and i would look forward to your comments when we hear budget on a proposed gas tax increase to pay for these things to keep your thank you any further comments or questions was one of my questions and they're ok is there any exemption i guess this is from for from a shepherd the whole sunshine law issue because three members talking about something that goes before counsel is against the we've gotten some really good questions and i think we got most of the questions answered is it your intent to try and pass this out if so i'd like to oh not today ok because i would like to at least make the suggestion that we the three council so once this committee is formed they will have the chance to get into really detail and come back and say well is this is really good and come back and if it's successful and bring forth inside that we need to sort of the need reiterate i you know although i have some concerned i think it is the right thing to do but i do want to say that i think any of the council members that are on it should be of voting members time to to meet with us i appreciate it and also of course you are mistaken that's a good team so members you know everything's been discussing i think at our next tami thank you very much and with the january twenty first twenty six thing meeting of the housing human concerns and transportation committee as knowledge here and thank you