good evening it is monday may eleventh two thousand and fifteen were you here for the water commissioner's annual customer meeting and there are handouts at the back of the room consisting of the agenda looks roughly like  the budget that looks like this and powerpoint presentation that looks like  water call quality and waste treatment capacity before we begin any comments or questions hearing none let's jump into the powerpoint thank you for coming to past year we completed the group proven project on time and on your budget that was a big project over by the water house that installed a little bit of extra larger diameter  that slowed down the water flow and allowed chlorine more time to come in contact with the water proper disinfection we repaired three water leaks at a total cost of sixteen thousand six hundred twenty two dollars we were able to reduce water and sewer delinquencies by working with the customers we got our only one tax collector involved she's got a good personality she was able to get people on payment plans we also followed up with delinquent subject trawlers we were able to close on the land for the new water storage tank that tank has been designed and permit it we hope the construction is going to be coming soon we started the preliminary work on the west maine extension we did have a very cold winter we had some freezing were able to keep service i think everything's thawed out last week the cochrane road services the sewer services thawed out and that was a pretty amazing thing to have happen to have the   we think they were fairly modest compared to some other systems many systems had well over one hundred thousand dollars in repairs this past  not realize but we're well over eighty percent complete compared to a lot of places are twenty percent so our pipes and all the new pipes we put in a lot on my p c we've insulated them anyplace where there's been concerns so the only wind it i can explain this but let's move on to the budget so there's a budget document which john for scraps of the budget in great detail and i'm wrestling jeff how we my view sleep present this to people have not seen it before so there is the handout we chanced the detailed lying items an account numbers and sort of some accounts where you see the breakdown and the power point with the bullets here is intended to give a quick overview of the highlights  so the highlights is for the proposed budget operational spending which is things like salaries repairs chemicals that sort of thing has only proposed to go up by three thousand one hundred sixty nine dollars the big increases are in the capital plans walkup water capital is increasing by seventy five thousand eight hundred eighteen dollars to fund additional reserves wastewater capital is increasing by eighty two thousand and seventy four dollars to fund additional reserves water revenue is increasing by twenty two thousand and nine dollars a big chunk of that is because of the additional fire contribution from the general fund budget and waste water revenue is increasing by eighty five thousand and eighty three dollars primarily due to added septic revenue we are proposing a two percent rate increase to the base charge and i should also know where the markets are expected to or wastewater revenues to what the rate sheet actually shows maybe you can explain that last comment so the past year aren't as a paid sewer revenue was a little bit less than what the approved rates showed it should be and we've actually been taking in more than we anticipated was the rate sheet more accurately predicted than what we thought we would get when we listed in the budget so when we look at the new rate sheet we see a different number we're just marking our budget to that number on the rate sheet so that shows an increase in sewer revenue but it's not related to the two percent rate increase or peripherally related to that question so two percent so the rate increase would be a separate issue it's only actually going to be a few thousand dollars because we agree at the last meeting that  will actually start brewing if you can not do you know anything about stone per hour when they might start operating maybe july possibly so channeling that comment by smith perhaps is something unfair is watching as they come on line and see what goes on with both flow and revenue in both directions as it were me and i did at that point  yes we need the two percent this year and if we watch it and you know two percent here is this if we look like ten thousand dollars something  yes ten thousand on the right so at that point if we find that that flow is coming in at that tend to have you drop the two percent or have a lot of funding or next minimal and now to be able to fund additional reserves over time so that the commission isn't trapped in a spot five years from now with a new twenty percent increase all at once so the commission agreed to consider a two percent increase on the base this year and if you look at it for the total amount of money it's going to give us on water it's going to be one thousand twenty seven dollars from years we probably had they were they were doing it cash accounting basis and there were never proper reserves set up but there was always several hundred thousand in the checking account right now  sort of put me on the spot trying to bring your audit not plague but i know we have about one hundred thirty eight thousand in water we're prepared to put another forty thousand in that so i think the question of what the right reserve amount is an interesting one we can look at a couple of different ways in terms of percentage of annual revenues or expenses one of the issues we have to deal with are the upcoming capital expenses the tank and east main which is kind of stacked up it's been described as shovel ready in previous discussions and that's time sensitive as we'll discuss later because of the route to paving plans from the state and so it behooves us to deal with some of those things and one of the things we've talked about is when we have to come up with some money to have some reserves to contribute to the projects as somewhere to you know maybe buying a car instead of mortgaging or financing one hundred percent of the car if you can finance a somewhat lesser amount than one hundred percent so as we see how these projects emerge that's one of the things we want to be able to talk about is ok what if we have some unexpected increases in projects and as we will discuss later unfortunately we do have some unexpected increases in the water projects water t spending more than you had budgeted and all these other projects are required things that we've had to do have come out of the reserve accounts for example the only street left to do is pleasant street all the other streets have been redone water and sewer and that and a of that came right out of the reserves this in house project actually depot street was an in house project that came out so we get very good example of essentially in our household budget we could pay cash are supposed to having to borrow for a  just please continue we were on the budget and if you want to turn to the rates for you want to walk through this budget item we have highlighted items it obviously draws people at times from the people's attention to the receipts is very slight the bulk of that twenty two thousand comes from the fire service fee from the general fund budget that was approved at town meeting if you go down to the sewer you'll notice that there's a pr substantial figure twenty seven thousand five hundred seven dollars on sewer user receipts even though that's an eight percent increase that reflects only a two percent on the base charge but we're correcting aren't as  figure because the rate sheet shows that we're going to collect more than the more than the three thirty six from last year and then where increasing aren't as a paid septic by fifty six thousand dollars again that's upon that fund to reserves we think that's a prudent change to make at this time if we don't get that septic then we don't fund the reserves so it's not going to put us in a deficit situation we'd rather use the any potential surplus cept it we get or more of our business really takes off put that money in a savings account rather than try to fund operations because if we have a shortfall you're not trying to close the gap you just cut carries the operational increases and that's primarily related to personnel charges  pledged to keep all his water and sewer department operational charges level funded and if you go down to water department capital expenses  this is where we can have some discussion we'll we're putting in an additional seventy five thousand dollars here by changing some of the prior reserves and putting some new reserves in you see we have a nice main replacement f forty seven thousand eight hundred eighteen dollars a short term capital of twenty thousand dollars distribution capital for the water lines of fourteen thousand dollars and then a general water capital reserve of fourteen thousand dollars completes the additional spending that we were looking to do more in this case the additional savings write the additional savings or that we're spending money question comment you folks have been through this before and some may not be and if we go to the next and you see the waste water department operations is the level funded waste water capital again we have some new capital reserves we're funding again east maine replacement fund which is a small amount because there is a small amount of sewer work that has to be done done on east mean that would be a very i think marginal part of  the overall project so we're talking about saving a little bit than that money will be converted into a debt payment after recently is done and we have the short term capital fun twenty thousand collection system capital fund twenty thousand wastewater capital reserve going from ten to fifty nine thousand and again that's all being funded by  and the other debt payments are fairly fix any discussions any comments and this does include that two percent on the based charge per unit in terms of process jeff have how do you want to proceed you want to do with his formal sort of motion for is shown and you can see for residential it's a little bit less than three dollars per year on water for sewer for this for this much eight dollars per user per year or so there is no proposed change at all for the meter put it in there and that's if anybody looks at the town budget i wonder where their fourteen thousand five hundred six for there is going to coming right back or of ministr i draw your attention to two pages earlier under the water department operations twenty seven eighty three four fifty the other comments or questions on proposed sixteen water sewer budget think it's time to entertain a motion to approve the budget as proposed we have a motion to have a second we have a second it was it was still so we have motion seconded any further discussion of the proposed f y sixteen water and sewer budget ok shall we move on in the agenda items to the water storage tank which i believe is slide seven in the you are talking about the had you would shown the table this table on the first page of the memo already as the highlight for the base rate correct or face charges the table and now i think we can go we have you have two different once you get past the first page on page two and three you have we have the twenty fifteen budget and then twenty sixteen right so this is what we approved last year for school year where i've modified the account per year for water and waste water for the three classes residential commercial government and schools and again when you look at the first page you will see what the aggregate differences it's really only a few thousand total for questions or comments from the commission  one question i'd have jeff at the bottom we of both pages we have the same figure of seventeen million one hundred thirteen thousand seven hundred gallons of metered water sold do we anticipate that being flat kendall any comments or thoughts on that obviously goes up or down revenue goes up or down if you're only real observation you want to deal with this is a motion also just to approve the rate spend so let's entertain a motion to approve the rates has proposed in jeff's memo of me seven so moved thank you second and that w right away with the bill that comes out in july right  for the raise in mid stream yeah you know have to wait till next year to do it if we see a good point if we're actively managing their advice given revenue know so that got us through both budget and rates does that then take us jeff to slide seven the water storage tank discussion yes so for about two years now we've been talking about replacing the water storage tank for a couple of reasons the first is that the tape is about forty five years old you know it was only designed to be twenty or twenty by your tank we do have some water pressure issues in town that the state has ordered us to correct so we embarked on a journey to replace the water tank after many meetings we decided that we would design a tank for fire protection as well as water consumption it would be in ground concrete tape at a higher elevation than the existing take to be able to get the pressure we worked up a bond estimate and that question passed in march of two thousand and fourteen for one million five hundred thousand dollars it's an in ground concrete tank designed seven hundred sixty thousand gallons we did purchase a new site one acre of ground up on jericho road across the street from the concrete tank at south for you we closed on that property last july we've fully designed it permit it the tank we went out to bid recently the bids came in higher than expected so that sort of gives us pause to say how are we going to handle that also included in that bond was the flooring contact time so we did spend some money out of that one point five million for that project also so we originally estimated the tank construction to be a million forty three thousand the low bid on the tank was one million six hundred twenty nine thousand which is five hundred eighty six thousand over budget or engineer people per job worked out some modifications under the work to yield a hundred ninety four thousand five hundred  savings so the final bid was one million four hundred thirty four thousand five hundred dollars we're going to add in the seventy thousand dollars continued seeing some other engineering costs so this this information is a little dated already but from our original budget subtract out the hundred fifty eight thousand for the chlorine project under thirty seven thousand dollars for engineering we've already done for design and construction on the flooring project and the land purchase for forty four thousand dollars under the original bond we have one million one hundred fifty seven thousand four hundred ninety eight dollars and spent so why do we need to complete how we need another hundred seventy thousand seven hundred of engineering one million five hundred four thousand of construction in contingency and there is a difference of four hundred sixty four thousand seven hundred two dollars  have in the bond and what we need to complete the project so i worked up a contingency or of a financial plan to be able to get the tank done that includes a special  statute that allows us to walk or do authorize an additional seventy five thousand dollars by way of a resolution from the jericho road project from four years ago we have an additional fifty fifty thousand that we didn't spend take from our current water reserve hundred forty thousand dollars and appropriate from fund equity next year at the end of next year one hundred ninety six thousand dollars so i'm just if we pass on sli probably one hundred twenty five thousand more than budgeted my suggestion is we lapse that to fund fund that we put that in a special reserve appropriate that fund equity next year or part of the water storage  dollar bond to increase that bond we'd need to have a special bond boat over the summer our contractors on a deadline they were going to hold their bid for sixty days and that's going to be up at the end of this month we'd never be able to keep their bid and modify that bond and make it past the thirty day appeal period for that bond to start construction this year we lose that  i think we lost that bit there be a lot of pressure to redesign the tank i'm not sure what savings you would get by resigning the tank it might be a little bit but it's impossible to tell so i think you would probably go through months and months of deciding what you want to do and then you'd lose the opportunity that you have now to build this thing and i think i showed you a way that you can build this thing by using the cash  reserves through your budget next year you may or may not increase equity by having additional revenue is what you're going to spend two hundred thousand ok so if we spend this two hundred thousand here which it looks like that we need to spend this money on that project if if we're if we miscalculate on the space by two hundred thousand we're not going to have the same ability to pay for  ways of changing this like will be about the hubcaps the formats kind of thing when we buy this car and part of the conversation was about the fairly substantial site work and you've already talked about building in some savings  but you know maybe you describe briefly the options how is it that we could achieve savings are there other alternatives to achieving savings with the new tank that we have is important if you're using your tank as a chlorine contact tank because you need to provide if you have one cell down you need to be able to provide contact time for the for the rest of the for the for the remainder during that time when you have one cell down in the case of it's nice to have the two cells because you can have one cell down and not but richmond also has a very good a very good source that for two three four five days that you might be down for any reason you can make up a bit least twice your average daily flow right now just using the word so that was the reason we could take that was about seven thousand dollars right there in concrete savings changing this this tank by changing the tank we were able to best utilize the tent at the site in a different way that turned out to be that we could change some of the slopes because of that so that saved us about fifty five thousand dollars right existing tank concrete tank to just basically taking the roof off filling it in redoing the site those other ten thousand dollars on the existing steel tank would be taken out of the project and done in some time in the future maybe that could even be done as a as purely scrap someone could come get it for nothing that had set that a value of i think ten thousand dollars in the project to buy going to the single tank we got rid of numerous valves piping patches and that was probably another forty five thousand i think and again i have that in my file but the bottom line is it came up two hundred ninety four thousand and change  we certainly you know kendall you started to say something about business this sort of supply and demand or a construction market and maybe expand on that you know everybody is very busy if you look around they're doing a water complex this year that's like a thirteen to twenty million dollars project twenty and all the contractors are busy everywhere my brother was a super and he says this is probably going to be the best year they've had ten years so they're building any projects like a water tank  lot more difficult than stick and stones as he says so a contractor will look at a water tank like there's a lot of complex things here i'm not going to do it unless i can make money so at a million dollars they'd make a little money at sixteen one point six million they'd make enough money to make it worth their while to not do some of the other easy work that they have available so it's a two hundred ten i get it if if  slope that is one of your put a tank of a certain size you have to do almost all of that anyway so there are some fixed costs so if you're over on those you don't save a whole lot by getting smaller so those are some of the things we kicked around  about getting smaller different construction you want to talk about the wire around yeah we actually looked at a couple of other manufacturers for the tank or a couple other concrete style tanks and rushmore since and the proximity to just the warnings that was the biggest issue we needed the proximity to just because if we went another thousand feet at one hundred two hundred dollars or two hundred dollars a foot say you know there's another two hundred thousand right there so is certainly a number of of discussions a number of decisions that are made along the way that unfortunately came out to the one point six to nine i again i i down every hole will say you had a fire at your house and you were not next to water in the water that shows up in the fire or from from system from size of the tank we're not going to get anywhere near the savings we would need to fill that hole the cost of the construction of the tank versus the materials used there that was one of the first things we looked at my my first reaction was ok we've talked about this a great length when we first floated the pond so i'm wrestling because i appreciate point i'm but i'm wrestling with what do diligence would look like other than what we've done what we're good to do and i don't mean as a rhetorical question i mean a the piece of it and it bigger tank was an incremental cost increase and where i feel somewhat stuck because the commission is we are under the gun if i describe to get a tank and so it's not something we can say add let's save up for five years in the ideal world we probably do something like that but if we have to do it in the next two years or so how do we move forward with doing that that site and then if we also think achieve substantial savings right and if we thought of this it's a one hundred year investment for all the users it's it will be it will present challenges we're representing and then annual payment of about it would be a huge stack of money when we think about a hundred year project and the life of the loan forty three thousand a year in the context of our budget it's significant but we have to double rates or we're talking here about the financial situation basically pay a negative interest rate so it's about i think it was a well the original project was one hundred fifty i it wasn't a good day all right we're right back out and tried to find the most that we could find and when i saw people in the room doing what i did the first day so how did we get that down we did the same it's way too much how did we get someday get more users we wouldn't want to be limited by the size of our existing tank you know we could spend slightly more with the in the next hundred years perhaps getting more users on to use more flow and help to pay for for our town contributions fire protection and commercial or business the infrastructure in richmond we have a modest now hired her and her fire protection contribution but not commercial have another discussion and it's course both financial and political whether people people willing to pay what's the role i'm not sure there's a great interest i would only observe that different towns have answered that question in different ways the we have not been received by the complete select board shall we say very well but there are ways that we can i'm no water user but i live nowhere near a fire hydrant so sensitive to both sides i'd like to hold off for a week so we'll get there are there is an issue on working out the state on the prior planning load and i'd like to be able to get that hammer down and that's forty three now so everybody should be familiar with the east main street in the village we have water and sewer water runs along both sides and the reports that a lot of those lines are are very old  substandard and we do have to design a project ready to go the agency of transportation will be reaped constructing ruutu will come into the town this year and they'll probably get to the village by next summer also what we want to do is not have accidental wind after they do all that so our design is complete green mountain engineering did this several years ago it's been permitted by the state and even more importantly we applied for priority funding under the revolving loan fund the same fund that's giving us the negative interest rate on the water tank we're in the first place to get that funding for this project also so that's pushed this project there's two things the priority list and the route to work by way of t have pushed east maine to you must do this now status just a comment despite the other recent projects and debt issuance this is the best time to complete east me because of the availability of the negative interest and the timing of the route to project so we're proposing a bond both for july fift again these main water lines are the most expensive and destructive lines in the system the reports that sixty percent of all the water leaks from the past ten years have been on these pain those are expensive repairs these lines her our largest water customer who is harrington's they have very much difficulty with the service disruption when they have water breaks on the screen currently there is only one fire hydrant out there which is not used to its due to its condition so we need to get those issues your payer dollars and cents their projected construction cost is a million seventy three thousand three hundred eighty engineering prior outstanding planning loan payments under thirty three thousand seven hundred other costs sixteen thousand seven hundred eighty this is a rough repayment plan right now we're only proposing a loan for the construction i'm thinking we really need to wrap the planning loan into that so this will change  repayment would begin in two thousand and nineteen we would get that negative interest money that's a guarantee and it's quite likely it would be an even lower rate because of our financial situation pond payments to ask question what the savings leak and repairs might be every leak on east main cost us ten thousand dollars so so what do we think we spend a year last year we were over thirty thousand we had three leaks on its main well so it's just anticipating that's an unusually bad year but that figure is close to the pieman that we're talking about yet and i would expect the number of leaks will go up once the pressure for so but then the logic here is that we're first spending you know it's like an old car you're spending a lot of money a certain point is not worth repairing anymore we're going to get a new car and you might end up actually paying less and be driving into car here before thirty thousand dollars a year to be tane it versus sixteen thousand dollars a year to replace it for a finite number of years and they were done and example would be west maine we replaced the west mainline  averaging a couple leaks on that at about six thousand dollars for repairs so that my real point here is that this there is not just a cost but there are savings that we could at least try to steps jeff you referred to revising the numbers partly because of planning grant figures so we have to get revised figures this could then be considered draft and timeline in terms of moving forward with fifteenth provided that that passes that metaphor provided that baker pleasant street lamb roy and bridge street and south bridge when you look at the conditions of those lines those are the only lines that are really bad that need to be replaced or east mean the ac lines that we be incurring significant phosphorous upgrade costs as far as the plant goes we do our last upgrade in two thousand and five we're required to have another inspection twenty year but the plants performing wonderfully we're taking a ton of sept age for making money it's in good shape as long as you keep funding the reserves so i can replace an influence or a pair generator you know nuts and bolts things and those guys tend to be in the five ten thousand hour range generally fifty hundred million that the big components of the plant were all upgraded in two thousand and five so we're pretty good shape  you may remember headed by that's that's correct we passed a two point five million dollars bond vote to do water and sewer extensions out at westmead to go to the mobile home park water commission is committed to a project that works it will not proceed if there would be negative impacts for a current system customers we continue to get negotiate with the mobile home park things looked promising but the details are a lot more complicated than what we thought  you know everybody is hopeful and nobody's frustrated at this point we're just taking our time and work through the nuts and bolts of how how it's going to get who's going to pay that the cost how much that's go be again the plan is to extend water and sewer from behind camel some middle school westward through the gateway area to the riverview moat comet's mobile home park the low income provides for a stable self self liquidating project that pays for the debt service with no outside support and will slowly start to bring additional user revenue into our small system without the park an extension of the gateway would be paid for by gateway users are substantially higher cost than the prefer there are some benefits to the mobile home care i find i don't want to understate more oberstein any deficiencies they've had with water or sewer but they have had some there are benefits to the mobile home park being on a public system that revisit what would it take to make it work and phase one or story now one of the things i've observed just thinking about our man the town itself where our minds go where the opportunities are we are really bounded by geography the combination the flood plain hills you can't really make water go off efficiently uphill so when we look around say we are potential opportunities to expand really is west mean is from what i've been able to gather the only rational opportunity for expansion so the comment how do you get more users we can sort of fill in in town to the degree we can having t proofread when they come on line using more water and septic is in many ways positive but the only way to really expand to a substantial additional number of users that we can figure out is moving out to west maine and that will either proceed or not proceed based on the sort of business model kind of pay for itself in phase two or three here any questions or comments from the public  we hope to avoid for both concepts and management challenge is not managing a hundred fifty users but manage one account just like the mobile home park does today so we have a mobile home park standard rates that is not affordable that means that i understand so the hope is we can hit a spot in between where we get additional users and international revenues that healthy and the current users and are workable to the mobile home park road if we can't make it affordable to the mobile home park residents we won't get the additional users and it will have a benefit to the current users and that point where it's somewhere between zero three water and the current rate is what we're looking at obviously reckon three one but they and rates are they able to pay our stake in the ground are starting to go see any point was it standard rates that all users pay and we said we would entertain a counter offer that we have not rece we had negotiating if they gave us a ten million dollar payment up front i guess we could give them a great rate for the next ten years or something so there you can have combinations of things of base three meter rate and you know upfront costs  from where i sit nothing's really off the table it just has to work as a business plan it has the benefit towers so part of it is the business plan what do we give up for revenue and how it has the trade off work but also when we think about what is the mission of the water sewer commission and system which as we've discussed it has been to serve the interests of the town and town residents first and se been pretty hard to figure out how to take it and we've been successful with that but our success has found a lot of success the surrounding communities as well so it's a it's a very unstable revenue and if you can find a stable to go down but it's a really good question to go into this with our eyes open because you're right the opportunity cost if we're doing something just as we talked about before you may generate additional revenue but then be losing some revenue sort of like when you talk about east maine there's a tradeoff that we have an additional cost but we may be saving some cons so to think about what the impact is on both revenue and cost is significant are we ready to move on to the capital projects and that impacts just like did take a moment to summarize some of the projects we've done past and then talk about some of the  coming up and i may have left something something some there may have been some smaller projects that you forgive me if i didn't have full history in two thousand and six we did treatment plant upgrades and that was a three million seven hundred forty thousand dollars project about ninety percent of that was forgiven and our loan repayments only three hundred forty eight thousand dollars over twenty years and we're paying for that now in two thousand and ten we did sewer lining in manholes that projects one forty five thousand nine hundred ninety nine dollars we got fifty percent forgiveness on that so repaying two hundred twenty two thousand and ninety over twenty  years fourteen thousand five hundred for the sewer system in two thousand and eleven we did jericho road that was nine hundred forty one thousand dollars over twenty years that's a front loaded project so the amount we pay back every year decreases over time in two thousand and twelve we did browns court with a five year note hers forty five thousand dollars left in three years left on the payment in two thousand and thirteen we did depots three we paid cash sixty seven thousand dollars and were about ready to do the water storage tank we did the kuoni chlorine project last year that's going to be a one million five hundred seventy five thousand dollars bond plus some cash and that's going to be repaid over thirty years that are negative interest rate future projects we have east maine and we talked about that earlier we have west mean that's a that's impossible to predict what that's going to look like that eventually we have bridge street pleasant street to kendall mentioned before those are far more than five years away i think maybe ten years or more away so in the short term it's just  screened in the water storage tank and then possibly less so if i glance at this and seems like we shouldn't start any beyond what we have stacked up any major initiatives until about twenty twenty six that would be nice we might be ready to do it with  so there are many moving pieces and i'm struck again it some of these figures are daunting until we break them down and say how do you pay them in each year and you fit them into the budget and to some degree they become manageable even though when we start talking projects that are million dollars or more it's a daunting figure so i guess i marched with you ended with a question is there predictable and i guess not yet it depends what goes in there how much money they have what they intend to feel what the usage is what the line is like it's another to be  we have some of the best drinking water in the state last year we were well within limits of our permit had no violations for the year for either water or wastewater operations richmond water resources department is proud to serve our town they do a fine job keeping the system running efficiently communicate with the public thank you kendall to reality brad and stay tuned as we consider important policy changes water and sewer capacity allocation  the first and third mondays at five thirty the town center right before every select board i will just observe that i believe the water and sewer commission used to meet once a month for an hour at six o'clock past meetings and again tonight the water tank east main and west main now considering since the brewery came in about b o d about how we consider allocations capacity we have in the system but mostly when you look up in industry a brewery is an industry they're not just another business you are required to not only build them for the water that they use in a base charge you also have to build them for the load that they put on the waste water facility an example would be a residence puts out about half a pound a waste a day a brewery can put out fifty hundred two hundred pounds of waste a day so obviously they have a lot bigger impact on the plant so the system you need to set up is determine what percentage of your treatment facility you want to be set aside residential commercial or industrial use and bill those categories appropriately so when the brewery comes in the first year we probably will be just monitoring sampling and finding out just what kind of a load they send to the plant and then next year you would determine what you would build on based on the load so they would actually have a three part build instead of a two parter so since my observation since the creamery left you know where i remember there was a day where people were sort of counting bedrooms and you know don't give up a bedroom because we're so close to capacity and then the creamery closed and we're in a very different position unexpectedly that also speaks to fairness and equity and transparency and i rate structure about who pays how much for what demand on the treatment it has all the things that started for example we're not north so when you compare richmond to normal price wise yes our rates could be considered sort of however when you consider richmond as the system and eighty helped a lot of communities we do a lot of networking so richmond is really exceptional that way and when anything is exceptional it shouldn't be the cheapest we're not the most expensive so it's still quite a bit higher than we are and all of the towns that you looked derogatory whenever i say that our rates are exorbitant i mean when you look at what the average residential and then again it's just an average the state figures you should pay one percent of your income for one one percent income for  them but what does it take to meet requirements and unfortunately you know it seems to me we have a confluence of events weather with a bunch of significant investments that all come do it about the same time you know the same time not just the washer washing machine but the refrigerator in the car approach and i'd like to be able of placing a space them out further or to have had a greater reserves that we had built up over a period of time but unfortunately we didn't so i'm really sensitive to the issue of rates we've wrestled with rate structure in my short time on the commission had we tried to be fair to everybody from people on fixed incomes to businesses  government commercial and we want to mean we're stuck with sort of the goldilocks rates how do we raise enough to keep going we don't want to build too much but we can't build two little  either i would in the ideal world our rates would be half what they are but i don't know how to do that the only way i know of of changing rates over time is to get more users time and that's why we keep him in his conversations about west main and how so when we think about impact on user is that something we should be aware of and i don't know i'm looking really it kendall and pete if there's a way to map who we think in with a new tank will experience that and is pos waiting for it to happen to be able to tell them in advance so so i'm just thinking for transparency while it may be buried in the reports that as we move forward with construction that we are communicate directly with those affected users or property owners  just so i think that trains us to the close of our agenda are there any other comments questions from the commission members of the public and the final comments or question the colors up there have we sent any shot off notices and one of the reasons i ask are those of you listening to the radio you know i'm sort of commuting listening to the radio sometimes the issues that are going on in some cities like detroit people off one of them is totally paid the other one is still off and all the rest of them we've worked out agreements to avoid shop for the ones that were shut off