welcome i like to introduce the panel on my right is judge farris he's the chief judge from hawaii on my left it's just breaker he's the chief judge from alaska so quite some variance there if you are the appellate you can reserve some time from the fifteen minutes allotted for argument and i will ask you how much time you're going to reserve when you come to the podium i will also ask you to enter deuce yourself and to tell celtic the panel whom you re present respondents get an equal amount of time but no opportunity to reserve any time fifteen minutes sometimes seems not like a sufficient period of time to argue your case but it's useful to keep a couple things in mind one is that normally we're pretty prepared we've read the briefs and so we know a little bit about the case so you don't really have to bring us up to speed the other thing is you're arguing frequently bankruptcy a lot of three bankruptcy judges so probably could skip that part we explain to us how the bankruptcy law works so my advice to people on oral argument always is the same get here important points tell us why it is you should prevail and that's that's think the key thing to talk about please call the first case conversant with my appeal i won't be redundant to the greatest extent possible other than to just briefly cover i make the appeal as a creditor in the case and while i am a what one might think  a financially quite small creditor what's important here is at least from my perspective and the reason that i mean this petition and appeal is because there was simply but i view with complete disregard for any attempt on the part of the trustee or the court there was no intellectual curiosity as to whether the claim of the senior creditor had any validity much less quantifying that the claim of the senior creditor which was bank of new york mellon is just simply not even question when there is when when that very i'm not the borrower on this loan it was inherited the property so to speak as a successor an interest and i was the owner of the property but the loan was to my father in law actually i'm sorry to my mother in law who property my intention was simply to have the facts and documents flushed out there it's very frustrating again i'm i'm a pro se appellants but  it's very frustrating because there just simply was no attention paid as to determinate any determination of what the amount or even the baseline the letter the current claim was there was considerable determine i have the docket documents produced and testimony if necessary to determine is this a valid claim and then if so what is the correct amount of that claim so that small junior creditors behind them aren't the court would sanction again i am not you are all very very conversant in bankruptcy law to me as a lay person that's very critical to me why would anybody sanction an attorney simply for saying we have a disputed de and because it's disputed we need to have that quantified and verified and document it seems like a perfectly reasonable request and again without being redundant as to my actual  that's what i asked the court to do today thank you very much thank you very much the the case is is now deemed submitted will issue an opinion and we will get it to the soonest possible thank you very much thank you