so i will call the september tenth two thousand eight hundred like board meeting to order and invite you to rise in join us in the pledge of allegiance pledge allegiance to the flag of the united states of america and to the silent or offer that would be greatly appreciated so they don't go off during the meeting ok so mr manager we have see we have an agenda addition request we do i have a request to would so be inclined we could probably move it to five c since he's already by the way and by b and this is time sensitive and that's why we're seeing it tonight and not waiting it is time sensitive and it was my fault that it and our local dealer that we use has to laugh and so if we wait a couple weeks until the next one he may not have any in stock and if we miss it the earliest we probably would get another one is posed ok most specifies here they look ok we're going to move on to the next item which is public to be heard this is a time for the public to speak to the select board on any items that are not on the agenda tonight so anyone here wishing to speak german public to be heard thank you could stick your full  so that children and walked to school funding covered by snow if it could be reminded that one business is flat out their driveways and they push  to ten hours just to do one pass and one pass often doesn't do it so they try telling me to make it perfect for the kids i think the chances are most zero well the best they can do you know the best they can do is what they were see your full name and my name is douglas whitney that was if you this was an appropriate time to add comments to what you've just mentioned i think it's for the betterment of the town in general not just for the schoolchildren that sidewalks you properly plowed into tended to i've noticed many remodelers who like to walk in the roadway when their side walks are not properly plowed which i think creates a similar hazard to school children slipping and falling and getting stuck in snow drifts i'd prefer not to hit somebody with my car when they're rock walking in the middle of the road because they can't walk on the sidewalk yeah not not all fifteen sidewalk slash path study for the section from athens drive to vermont route two eighty nine and dennis you want to introduce that he would so this is the best part of the meetings because i other staff here too and if they want to do something as well they can be it's important for the border to understand i think you all do these are scoping projects we started last october and i won't take reds greg's thunder at all we started last october and planning for two projects so this is the first one and then following this will be a hearing on the second one and we're now at a point to do for the select board of trustees because both of them to select a preferred alternative that doesn't mean they're going to get built and that's an important factor in all this because we have the money to do the scoping at this point the next stage would be to get a grant to do design then right away acquisition if it's needed and then funny construction when you see these projects they're expensive we've got to go through the normal process in the normal process if you were starting today and you are starting zine is probably somewhere between five and seven years so our next stage once the boards do decide on a preferred alternative or next step would be to go after that funding try to secure that and then we'll see where it goes from that point but we really can't go to the next step until the board chooses a preferred alternative and with that i'll keep quiet and if you can think over and i'm going to go sit  preferred alternative perhaps in detail and then and then gain any feedback or seek indorsement us as far as the background of the area this shows it's a little hard to see that it's actually is on the prior to  out of the town or out of the town plan and it extends from a long route fifteen from athens drive to from mont to eighty nine so that in a larger view you can see here on the screen the extent of it was of up is about two thirds of a mile and in yellow on each and is where there is shown  group fifteen which is which really has some different characteristics than probably on either end of it remind us just what length that is about two thirds of a mile in is done is said we're in the project definition phase of following that  process then you get into the funding in engineering so that we are looking at the issues and coming up with alternatives where we are we've been through with identifying the problem of purpose and need and we're course down to this selected all alternative after going through a public process the timeline included a couple of public meetings and initial want to local concerns then evaluating the alternatives and then presenting those to the public and then accommodate all ages and really contribute to this regional bicycle network which which would be part of as far as alternatives that we that we looked at was path again with bike lanes the existing section that's out there today is about twenty feet or so pavement so there's two twelve foot lanes and two two foot shoulders more or less it varies a little bit but generally that's that's what's out there today and if you looked at the alternatives that were considered it would be the actual widening of the roadway  on the order of about four feet to feed each side and then a five foot green buffer and then an eight or ten foot path on this on this side and actually i'm working through this with the state has a has eight and curves in project it's actually the continuation of the one that was out here that's going to continue up to fifteen and believe it's going to go all the way to the if you look at a plan of the project we look and in talking with the advisory committee we considered well should you put on your side sell side should we look at both sides and it really seemed to make most sense we started off just looking having it on the sell side when you when you focus in on it at the beginning down by fairview drive there's already an existing pretty wide chill eight foot shoulder in a five foot sidewalk  to the indian book crossing and this is where it's the house that's public closest of any of them to the roadway so we want to see how that would how that would fit how their driveway would operate  by when you when you constructed a path there and what we found is that by shifting the path out to the edge of the roadway in that area then he then that a passenger car could actually turn around in his driveway  exit on route fifteen and it would minimize any any impact to their to their operations we also looked at what would happen at the indian brook crossing and the actual colbert and indian brook is actually eventually the state will be looking at doing some of the repairs replacement as you continue up to two eighty nine the again the the shoulders widen out the view you can see can still maintain a green buffer or the eight foot path really ends up kind of where the with the grading is now it really doesn't impact a whole lot down to put in there as you got up to the  lane in widening that sidewalk and create a path in the bridge area so again relatively easily to accommodate we compared the alternatives in evaluation matrix and  i and i i guess i should say that the ten in the footpath really they're pretty similar in terms of their layout and how weight and how they fit you can see yes they can footpath is a bit wider so it does have a bit the advisory committee and the staff came up with a preferred alternative i believe you probably saw that in a written memo making a recommendation or a request for approval and that was for this shared eight foot shared use path with bike lanes as described in the scoping study and as we've described here and that would include lighting along the length of it and it would be a waste i mentioned there to be a and it would replace the five foot sidewalk period drive with an eight foot multi views path as we described and it would terminate on the east side of the vermont fifteen just where we ended up with the eight versus ten you know since you have i think we felt that it could go either way i think ten feet is what's recommended by advocates but with on road facilities and this is a location where we don't know that there is going to be like the burlington bike path so i thought the path would be appropriate in this location which is how we got to this and we also discussed lighting vs not lighting but the committee felt that future use of the past may warrant having lights on it so those are you know factors that could be changed in the future if that was the desire but the committee repaving and we haven't secured funding late restrike bit the way you have it in alternative three so we would get the bike lanes anyway that's what their plans currently show yes and this is something that the transit generally doing wherever they can they're not just doing it for this project wherever they can get a wider lane for bikes they're doing this across the state so it's a really great sort of complete streets isn't it acquirement actually to do that yeah i mean i think for paving generally it's just if they can do it without having to add right of way and i think that's always the issue with paving so if it's something that can be done easily from the drive planes from twelve to eleven feet right gets tossed off the road it's not tossed on to the walk but you have that by foot area to do it so that's that's great and it is going to ask if does this if we approve this tonight does pad grant application that the town would submit so you are you are not locked in until you actually submit some grant applications escapes the kind of movie boy or progress that demonstrates you have local support and therefore sure you may be more eligible my question deals with and i forgot to ask the dentist does either of these alternatives changed the speed limit the boss ability of a speed limit change per my feeling from having done this for a long time is there's a point where you go from rural to urban or whatever your color and in my view it is for the town that's probably either east of sand hill road  you're trying to take the road narrowing it and therefore reduce that speed so that one of the comments but many of the residents in athens drive  is you well coming westbound you're going downhill and if you were originally doing forty or forty five you're hidden your brakes just to get down to thirty five and then you go to thirty so just come and maybe the process what we're talking about lights their homes that might be impacted by the lighting along that path that you know they probably wouldn't want to shout into their property you know one thing that you would typically do is that you would about this with an eight foot wide path you could potentially do it with a couple of different pieces of equipment you could do it with a pickup truck or a slower moving plow you may not want to go all the way down to the surface per se because it's asphalt assumes could be asphalt versus concrete but yes they would add to our our mileage where the things that dennis mention is that we could also at that time also discuss with the village our operations as to who is close serve who has got the capacity to pick up this extra mileage and then one one bright spot about it is it's a straight path up and a straight path down so you're not going in and out of neighborhoods you're just going up you're making one pass you're coming down making a path here's the other thing depending on how the village in the town graded this as is a priority we may do it third you know in priorit school school routes certain other routes and then we get to this so we'd still be adding but we but when the time comes we'll look at see where we are but that is what you would be doing is adding to the is the town village line is there to have the full years yeah but they didn't show the whole road i want to see the whole workshop and point out where it is on the whole segment there was a shorter segment and showed where the lot where the line was but it didn't is there anyone in the public that would like to ask a question or make a comment on this proposal to state your name for the record please attend not at all to discuss this process brought here y have seen it i'm just a little bit concerned with the purpose of it what the need of it is because there's like four houses down the whole length the stretch and two thirds of a mile i hardly worth thinkin resources in the money or in the lighting into grading as he said about a culvert that's under there it's substantially wider than the road it is but as we all know usually that's what the state of town does anyway because you don't want to roshan right at the edge of the road you run it out there for a purpose million to build something over the top of it which causes  creates a potential for erosion i mean i drive up and down that road every day ten fifteen twenty times a day with kids and everything else maybe see half a dozen bike riders maybe a few more different human days hardly ever see a pedestrian on that side of the road we have a bike path that goes through i don't know the name of developments but for from the brickyard up through fairview up into by the unit essex and whatnot which is tied into all those routes that are all back there and come all the way from to hana first and all them other key places that i think people would want to go if they were going to walk or ride so i just don't i just don't see the purpose for it i think it's a kind of a week's resources when we're talking about now one of the other things i had was i heard somebody mention grand if the project was fully grant funded i get it i guess i'm good with it but we are all as taxpayers going to take on the burden of continuously being asked to bump the tax a little bit more because we need to still pull out a new this and do that whatever it's just something else to do to take up that the resources that are already sat in the south pretty good so it's just a concern i just don't see the purpose i don't think it's enough use for putting it it's consistent with the template to do the interconnectivity of these it was very high priority but a survey was out there for the public so this is consistent with the template and with the public's desire to make these connect but i appreciate your real i think it's a very useful project i have seen people in bicycles on that route i know it's of more direct route then the route through brickyard road countryside which to be perfectly honest there's no it's not and i'm sorry direct your call i'm sorry the recreational path that exists now is not a consistent recreational path and it goes on to sidewalks to be perfectly honest i ride a bike on that i try and get off the sidewalk into the actual roadway and every time i have to ride over a cur i have seen people walking on the side of that road people will continue to walk on the side of that road late at night as long as there are businesses in the area that are twenty four hours a day or people here in the early morning hours and it's as you've suggested a highly trafficked route where the danger to pedestrians is ok that one passes five zero thank you and while you're up there we'll move on to the next one which is approval of preferred alternative for the round fifteen sidewalk past study for the section from susie wilson road to west but the the fixing of this intersection of suzy wilson and the fifteen in this old intersection is really tied to what happens with the bike path and has to do with  funds available for this one maybe i don't know on the other issue of this one is the state delayed their class one paving in the village so they stopped at western this stuff continues so there is right i'll go quickly to the first service line in that it's really good it went through the same process with the same people and really concurrently the two together which made it a pretty efficient process  side and it ends that it will it would and currently it says you will see the road there also on the other and there are like lanes that go into the village along route both there buffered bike lanes as when they went to that the road guys what i call it they went to a three letter they went from a four lane to a three lane section and put in bike lanes on the outside so those are the but also to accommodate all all users just say on road or off road but always groups the alternatives that were considered ghettos and no action as well as looking at taking the four lane section to maintain the median but making it to lanes with of with a five way and then three was three lanes with no median the existing section that's out that shown here is that there and we're in this is where if you're looking eastward towards the village you  the right is where the devastation the tires and then you have a twenty four feet of pavement a sixteen foot which is two lanes sixteen foot median and then again two twelve away a line is it is generally about four or five feet beyond that existing sidewalk and this area should probably knows seen some evolution over the years  from initially is constructed what in the in the late sixty's as a four lane highway there wasn't much development or a few homes along it and now of course it's become developed with a lot of commercial as well as multi family housing so alternative to is as described here as with two lanes the median it was sort of the it was taking them the minimalist approach in terms of the amount of amount of construction it kept a curb t reduce it to one travel lane for the majority of it and it would maintain the median and therefore that would still require the use of the two jump handles on each end of the this section to gain access or make left turns into or out of a the properties on the north side of the so this alternative did not preclude that operation  maintained that and in that situation is being looked at as part of the intersection project that dennis alluded to in terms of how you accommodate that therefore one way to accommodate that lane that would be really a left turn only lane into the driveways on the north side and then a single lane westbound would have offered by plane that allows you to move that north side curve out from where it is today about twelve feet you end up with a white or green strip if you will a longer that side or whe wasn't vision to aac to accommodate the the off road users that the sidewalk would be widening from five to eight feet and that pretty much remains within the existing by the way to do that into a four lane section for that for that stretch so that the intersection would really operate similar to what it does today it's just it would taper down the one lane if you got away from the intersection there would be the south side of this alternative allows you to remove that existing jughandle and slip lane operation now if the intersection was done at the same time it might look a little bit different than this but it would again you you would need that jughandle operation that's there today yes  here even if you require all of it out there there's no way to get that reversed turn because you're too close to the intersection cars are trying to do that now it's also possible to do that left turn to get up more but just some more details about this when you look at the other end of it you look at westry that shows that you have it's pretty much the configuration that's out there today where you have a in that transition area for those right turners you'd you'd know you'd be indicating that you'd be crossing a bike a bike lane so you have to be aware of that and then of course it would be on the east side  today option a looks at from ethan allen drive down to suzy wilson and the there the thought was is that if if if you're going to want to be eastbound and be and additional crossings such as that susie wilson road in you you could do that you could practically put in a seven foot wide by flame facility by removing the four foot median that's out there today and putting in three eleven four lanes so what does that look like and plain view it's a little small to see but  course in the west direction it stays really what it is today and in the eastbound direction you'd have a bike lane so that you could come off the path you'd be stopped at the  and that would be a movement that would probably be for events cyclists would take that probably not your  lists and this shows what it would be at the intersection so you would just simply continue through is as as you get to the traffic signal  some of the bigger differences between them of course cost i can tell you alternative to would be primarily a cop wish it could be accomplished as a class one paving project a lot of that probably eighty percent of them are so because it's overlay in painting there's a widening of a sidewalk from five b feet but that would and as well as in terms of alternative three there's a consideration that that class one time high paving funding could be applied to alternative three as well to reduce the overall  otherwise they compare similarly and there's a proposed that could be done as the separate projects and i think we've got a great basic cable to four of them mike he thought i read somewhere that there was a distinct possibility that there would be more signaling and more lines lane changes in stuff and suzy wilson wrote subsequent to this if i read that properly don't see lines changes that i think are for you so so if i didn't if i'm to understand what you're saying then there's not going to be the possibility of other changes if this were to be accepted after it would not be changes after that at suzy wilson road and i'm familiar with the kellogg and i know what's going on down there and i know i know what the state's trying to do a night and i get it i'm more concerned about the impact on this alternative three accepting this and then having another and having more changes to suzy wilson road at that intersection  alternative what grade does it change the greed of the intersection from any you know because it's not great now does it degraded does it improve it or does it just  this particular segment of the project i know that the suzy wilson intersection work improves the intersection in and of itself does this improve the intersection grading by the state is the single to left turn right now there's close to around a little service up and it's projected out if we don't do anything basically reaches a point where you have no longer capacity at the intersection over a promise that they were a hundred percent funded and so for they follow through on that so a lot of years ago on it in our view the intersection changes the signal changes the lane changes are probably one hundred percent funded this will be  fact you get this same without the intersection being done you are adding a crossing a group fifteen that you know which button that you're crossing but that crossing would be concurrent with the left but we go back to the earliest picture in your presentation that gave the full with of the project for i'm sorry the extent on the actual road from ethan allen avenue to western extension that one so i'm wondering about the part of the portion of route fifteen to the east of the project scope here at one point correct me if i'm wrong but if you're leaving the village or heading westbound on fifteen around the fairgrounds it goes into two lanes and then you're proposing that it drops down to one lane and then reopens to two lanes at the intersection susie wilson i'm a little concerned about that bottleneck going in and then coming back alley is what is that going to do to traffic that's further east coming from the five corners area right on the left side where there's that right turn only offer fifteen that the village put in on to three years ago that's unchanged that's not going to be a factor in all that's correct the one on the west side other other wetlands on the other side of the tracks and the table of i guess it was pro pros and cons showed the the words for her were and read about the the stormwater issue i just wonder if there's more detail around is that that the funding for that or the amount of that that would cost is not included in this that's an additional thing we would have number of residents request cross walks on that stretch of road and we've been told that because it's a class one of the speed limit is a certain level and cross locks are feasibility at that point so if the speed limit is being lowered and there are residential neighborhoods there i would want to see if we could add a cross walk or two the thing you have in th have questions from the board good ok just get opening up if anybody has a short comment or question about this project if you could keep your comments brief that would be i move that the select board approved alternative three with option a is the preferred project alternative including the recommendations by staff as outlined in this document second if you want to an move forward but there's no commitment at this point right as that is said to be more public hearings and so on and opportunities for changes there's no money committed there's not even sure if we have the money court anyway but right yeah it's just a kind of moving forward saying we'll call it and that's the item we added to the agenda which is out the request of the new tracklist sidewalk so that i guess you could really take us there because we just as you go just got that in front of  one is a two thousand and one track course that we've used as a backup so that when seventeen years old one of things are going to be doing with that it's got twenty four hundred hours on it's been well used it is a quality machine and the village has it  also has a truck with which is much newer and we're going to be going through that to replace what we can see the one fittings hose intellectual connections the things that might cause us a problem there's nothing that tells us how much more useful life we have out of it it's a good backup machine but it's not a primary machine so into our intent is to keep that the problem we've had is the machine that we purchased in in two thousand and twelve on n b c it has about six hundred forty hours on it so it's about a quarter of the hours we have in the trackless last year it spent most of the winter in the maintenance shop with the vendor we had a five year warranty that we purchased for and they honored that warranty by providing us with a loaner that did work so most of the when it was in the shop that warranty is now u and the machine you can drive the machine the problem is during the winter time it lacks attraction to be able to plow the snow in once and there's a there's a there's a continuing series of issues between electrical mechanical components to get the real world drives to drive when you get into a load situation and we feel like you say it spent most last winter at the vendors trying to get it fixed the problem we have is the m v company was bought out by a  company called a e b i schmidt holding a jeep in july of this year they do manufacture equipment for airfield runways they stop manufacturing and b we requested then i'll jump to the last item and one paragraph there we have done a lot of work with there are certain vendors that we deal lot of work with on one equipment h p fairfield and viking civvies ones in you look at the last sentence of the letter they provided to us it said it says and i'll quote and he went through what they did and whether they can get or not get repair parts but in summary with all the data above and not a firm direction from n b if an opportunity presents itself to remove the n b from your fleet i would do so rats kind of specific i didn't really expect i'd get that it's as if a veteran and we didn't help them right at that we sat down and said what's your opinion on what we've got and where we go from here so we did some inquiry the m b was a relatively new this isn't really tied to the busing issue this is tied to equipment that we need to do the job so we did some scrounging and did some some phone calls and we started out as ed said there was five machines there was two and a four thirty day there was one left that we can lease it's about one hundred fifty one thousand dollars piece of equipment we can lease it for five years of the lease to own with about thirty two thousand plus or minus a year when you do the math on that because we have programmed and given you a copy of our equipment replacement plant if you go to one of the attachments the first one is our existing plan and it shows us replacing the sidewalk plow in two thousand and twenty two three years out if you flip the page we've taken that purchase out of two thousand and twenty two and started leasing it this year and through savings on some of the other vehicles that we purchased under the old plan and we'll plan didn't reflect the savings so i have to you know that's what it is but we would we're about thirty thousand to the good because the sidewalk plow expenses to buy a new one would increase over the next few years anyway just because of inflation and cost of product so we're actually somewhat better off if we were to lease it now than would be if we bought it a new one in two thousand and twenty two what that then gives us as it gives us a new machine that will be able to stand up to the winter conditions continue to try to use the n b until it fails which i have utmost confidence it will and then we'll switch to the second track which says the back up one of our problems has been that we run the sidewalk lolloping the town center we also have to run it down on super wilson road so into the winter time the circe sidewalk plow chugging down from the town the east side of the town to the west side of the town losing probably about forty five minutes in transit it doesn't go very fast our ideal situation would be to locate one of our two existing machines on the east side of town and leave the new and up in the in the upper  and drive to the machine and we were talking to bill it's about space and some other parties to try to get it heated space down to one of our other two machines in the center of town so that we can essentially provide better coverage in a shorter period of time  we would i would be coming to you for this request irrespective of the busing issue for the busing issue may require us to do more i don't i don't know yet but economically it doesn't hurt us to go ahead and do it early and gives us the equipment we need to do the job and we need i think that's it and i can tell you is we need and in order for us to continue to do that job we need a machine that we can put on the road and count on it being available to plug we you know the question probably comes up won't you have the manpower to handle two machines one of the things that's a job just being advertised right now is  position under the parks and rec department for to help out and make nits in the summer time year round position we grab that position the winter time to help us with sidewalk lawn so we would have the additional help think we have both the manpower situation taken care of and if we lease this the equipment situation for the sidewalks and the trucks and the operators the trucks are fine buy it because it's like and that's all but those towns that have it already they may want it for spare parts it was it and sell it to another town for parts at least it's an option i think where i would probably sound strange but i would like to try to get whatever use we can out of it if we can get it to be used and if we find which i think we're going to find that it's just not feasible then that's the point we start to talk to other communities about parts if we get it through another winter that's one more winter of having a backup machine because other machine we have although it's fine is still seventeen years old and that's what is the expected life of this machine and where  the head that if the m b were good we're talking about replacing that in two thousand and twenty four so that's like a lot of your life so that's what we're but we've got seventeen years on the other one's self you know at some point  time it seems strange but the price of the sidewalk plowed was about the same price as a full size pickup truck with loan weight in the same ballpark so if you reached a point where your sidewalks plo jumping back one subject i i was struggling to find a diagram to ask questions about alternative three and i missed the gun we have a number of people here who are probably here for the farm scheduling this is good to see and they were so hands for so many here ok when i i know it's eight thirty but we haven't gotten to the firearms scheduling discussion i think that could be relatively quick i hope so what i'd like to do for the sake of the public is to allow us to do that and then go to to have charlie baker up after that ok sixth actually getting into the ordinance it's a little bit more complicated than just plugging in some dates for one thing medical up a completely forgot about the tree farm so i want to point that out half of which is in the town area where just charge is allowed out that's in the village with discharge similar in my opinion to jacksonville and indeed brooke in terms of heavy recreational use and should that be brought into the conversation that we took over not too long ago the way read right now that would be in no discharge just the little fifty acre parcel up in the woods were shooting is currently allowed the way i read the ordinance right now there's no discharge  parks except for india brooke so that would be capturing that so those are just some of the little nuances that need to dig into some more so with that in mind was looking ahead and figuring out what dates are available  to plan for some of that stuff and look ahead and looking for some guidance from the board as to when you want to continue this discussion ok thank you and what i'd like to propose as we're trying to schedule lease discussions is that we kind of break it up  pieces one would be to continue the discussion of finalizing the town parcels like indian broke and saxon hill and the tree farm  let's get that settled and agree to and then keep the ordinance open and then schedule another time when we could talk about shooting ranges because that's something that we need to we need to talk about as well but i'd like to with your blessing is to split that into two so we can handle the one to completion which i think a little bit more tweaking we're kind of almost there and then for the shooting range discussion it's going to take some understanding from legal to see what is even doable if anything and what i'd like to do between now and whenever we schedule that is have you send whatever questions you think are legal needs to answer and send those to greg and greg we'll collect those and then give them to our legal counsel and when time comes for the discussion we should be in a better place to really understand what he thinks is legal versus not and then we can figure out what it is we can do if anything that ok and then further clarification we talked about wanting to have all five of us present in the room for these discussions and i think elaine you're out october one and i am now going to be out november nineteenth so we could take those two off the table since we want to have a full complement and then decide how we want to do the other discussions and yes we need to be sensitive because punning season is coming and you know we want people to be able to participate but we have to kind of balance a lot of stuff so with that let's talk about the first part when we want to have a discussion to finalize what we want to do with the town was i would say october to be the logical one if that's ok so then that leaves we need to to schedule though the one where we could do the the shooting range discussion now we need to give bill enough time i'm not sure what you guys think so how does that sound to the board with the the fifth be ok for the to start the shooting range discussion and if i understand the ordinance current is the ordinance what's permitted now is currently permitted you have not changed anything so if the select board does not adopt anything new  that's the ordinance that's currently in place and second any ordinance that you adopt you can put in effect of day into the future so as not to make anything confusing  what's going on you haven't yet and one of the things staff talked about was we we rather make it as good as we can make it and as lot less confusing as we can make it than just getting it to a date for the board of change an ordinance basically you have to accept it for the ordinance then you want a public hearing after you approve it it needs to be at least five days or seven days for that which but a little over a so going a little bit further down that road where we were we to agree on language on the fifteenth for the hunting piece how much time would we need in order to be able to get a public hearing on the schedule what i was proposing is that we just on the fifteenth figure overly finalize what we talked about with the the town parcels and leave the ordinance open so that means you don't need the public hearings yet because really we haven't adopted or accepted it keep it open until we can figure out what if anything we want to do with shooting ranges that we might want to include in the firearm sr charge ordinance and then at that time it would be i think more appropriate to say let's get all the language have a come back to us to a point where we can approve it and then schedule public hearings from there are supposed to go through two ordinance changes right in a row that makes sense i understand and i'm not sure i'm not sure i agree ok so we have the fifteenth and then would november fifth be ok to assuming we finish  the public parcels on the fifteenth assuming that's accomplished then we could look at november fifth for the shooting range now if we're not done on the fifteenth then i think we'll have to just have the same type of public we're going to invite the public to weigh and just like we did with the hunting on the public purse political play a role in that yes yes and our publicly know well have the information from legal we can discuss what we think is appropriate and as we did before we can open up to the public and certainly listen to what they have to say and based on what we hear make whatever changes we think is appropriate or not i have concerns about how long i thought we were going to keep the ranges piece more separate than the way you're laying it out now well if you're going to if we're going to do any changes to the the or consider changes to the the shooting ranges they would need to go into the fire arms ordinance the firearms discharge ordinance so and the conclusion might be that we don't want to do any change to that and then ok then we just deal with the public parcels approve the language and do the public hearings on that but that was my thought that if changes are going to be proposed to the ranges then they really would fit into november early december hello budget time hello holidays i'm just i just i want to make sure that we do this at a point in time where as many of the public can participate as  possible we're certainly not to the public hearing point yet but i would hate to delay this important discussion beyond his days i'm not i'm not saying i'm not suggesting that for a minute or you're right we need to be sensitive to that when time comes to schedule the hearings we should have that discussion you that great sort of ad that the whole place speak in the public engagement process that happened over the summer also has a lot of comments on ranges director tension back to what  a little bit as well just an operation just remind you that those comments are out there and available to in addition to that you distilled public comment for future meetings you have shown and we can vote so we're we're to get questions to a september twenty eighth the end of the  recreation or fish and wildlife wherever you feel that it's necessary but i says strongly suggest we have some expertise in the audience we are looking to have our town attorney in the audience we will certainly have staff of the people that are on the committee several people the run the committee including the police department recreation and we can see other people from fish and wildlife as yeah there was a gentleman in the audience  whatever help he could i'd say we should avail ourselves of the other comments on choosing fifteenth and nov fifth for the next  by definition it's we already moved on sorry i didn't we had motion on the table our practice is that we don't take a moment when there's a motion already on the table if it's quick  no concern for anything you start putting on the table whether for public hearings and all this other stuff in my opinion if it happens any time between at the late earliest mid october through december a lot of the people that are on the program against an ordinance change us hundreds for example we could be traveling not even available for those public areas so we're looking like you've got to keep track of that timetable to give ample opportunity for those of us who are opposed to any changes or are in the middle of hunting to be able to be available for those public regarding just to plant a seed in your minds as you're formulating your questions pertaining to shooting ranges we talked about this we talk about hunting as hunters need to target practice we would be we would be remiss in our task if we didn't practice before we went out and hunted so just be mindful of that if you could as your formulate questions and start to think about this we were hunting on the shooting but that's a big piece of it as preparation turn the clock back twenty pritchett that thank you for being patient a way to go no problem no problem good evening so i don't want to take a lot of time but happy to answer questions the first page of the report gives you some background about what the r p c is here with organization made up of the municipalities you have a seat on our board mr cars here primary rep runner is your alternate  have been doing this for many years and we mimic them both a lot of years and most of the second alternate route for the village even more comes in handy a time seth so but and we appreciate it and really  and the town has your reps have been very active in our committees just also on the finance committee and energy committees and so we really appreciate the amount of time that they invest in the organization pain in the hind quarters comes to my head i thought do appreciate and of the second page of this and the second and most of the third page kind of list out some individual projects that we worked with the town on some of which you heard about tonight can repeat any of that and i'm trying to look at some of the most of them are transportation related things because we have transportation planning funds they were able to invest in the town again with your staff a lot of work on water quality stormwater planning the new municipal road general permit that's kind of tied in to your advice for permit and i'm sure you've had other conversations here at this table about that  any questions on any of those projects or anything yes i was your first choice the end but if you're inviting questions you're so the project that you're doing or have done the past sidewalk impact ok has that report been completed in front of best answer ok thank you very much on bonnet that's partially from me not having be able to follow up on it the report's been completed it's been presented to economic development commission the planning commission i don't think you the border seen it yet there were some comments about wanting to compare it to other towns having terms of fees and concerns about having too many fees what are appropriate  fine my question is you're looking at other towns and how their fees structures are set up have you looked at the village and those this study include the village and are we comparing impact these in general across the board for the village the town somewhat it's part of the alignment thing that we're getting into these and policies and procedures  there and then the next section gets into things that are in the transportation improvement program which is kind of our regional version of a capital improvement program it's a federal requirement that we have that in place for the transfer be able to spend federal transportation dollars and so this is a list of projects they're not exactly in date order but you have a lot of projects i mean compare relative to other towns and not surprisingly your large population down but you have a lot of investments on the on the program scheduled for the coming years a couple with notes with the construction schedule to be determined and i don't i don't know a lot of specifics about you know the actual  details of some of these projects but let me know if you have any questions i can follow up and if you do i'm not sure dennis is probably updated you about many of these there are new funding issues with the circle turner projects which you know we were fortunate enough to get some of the o level because it's the c c or p c and the chip going metropolitan planning on a station that those projects automatically get incorporated in that state transportation improvement program is a measure of it's the function of so it's part of we know we sometimes talk about as n p r business right we have items that are n p o business which means that there are some representatives of the r p c that are not voting members of the metropolitan planning organization board and so we have some thing other towns a large number of projects that came out of that sort of most earnest process no surprise you're right in the middle of it and so i actually really have a lot of things program for the next few years so it's it's good not to see  contacts it that's my understanding you correctly from mr executive director and then there's going to continue it from the jerk alive to richmond next year evan this has been on the books for a really long period of time november first well as long as the hot mix plant stays up there in two know if it gets too cold they can't deliver hot or trying let's put it that way i mean they could st they will say if we were more reasonable about the covert it would have been done last year to ship moving on i'm told i don't believe that was thank you again i read for all the time you put into that the neighbor or active transportation we have a transportation survey that's coming out with the results next month and some training and intelligent transportation system sort of right if things that we work on a region wide happy to answer any questions on any of those if you have any yes sir there's been a couple of gatherings of folks interested in housing want for this fall so i think we'll end up haven't you know probably three a year or so and i think if i recollect i think one of the things that were was coming out of the last so on that topic with the affordable housing yes you're looking at all types of housing not just affordable because you want to have the whole spectrum yep well represented in available right  more than that and we're going to have a better chance of getting more of the affordable if the whole market is working better and so the thirty five hundred number is really the full market with twenty percent of that hoping to be  affordable and so you know we're not hitting the mark on the affordable numbers but we're doing pretty well in the overall supply issue which is really in my estimation we are really under supplied in our housing market and so you know it has dynamics where people have to drive an hour to commute to jobs back in china county because they can't there isn't enough supply of housing here so that was they were trying to deal with that fundamental part which obviously you know just basic supply demand we have more supply that helps hold down price you know escalation at least and then you know we can continue to build more and so twenty sixteen i think we've built over nine hundred homes in the county twenty seventeen six hundred something so on average or you were exceeding the seven hundred a year pace the last couple years i mean the total mix there's a certain ratio that we need right in the sec being looked at then to make sure that all those segments you know the yeah and it's hard to either predict or force what exactly happens you know as armchair you have housing developers and in town that  as a replacing you there apartment buildings or so we're getting a lot more rentals i would say clearly so there's definitely been a shift from maybe like the ninety's and early two thousand is where was more single family homes to more multifamily so you know i look at i go say the housing market supply is kind of rebalancing you are getting to smaller housing side household sizes and so smaller housing units and jeffy you look at the stuff as much or more than i do is a different way in so i don't really think to say what the developers are actually doing but looking at the like a needs assessment to say to have a healthy community you know you want for the housing so people can live where they were at but there's other levels too that we don't really ignore yet in a nice know what those needs are and then the developers will do what they think is never wrong for access called the filtering process and availability across the entire price spectrum is important to a market to fit to function effectively because if you don't have choices for people to move out of their first home into the next level you don't open up for the people who are moving it for me households in going into the beginning and that's that's something that happens in the recommendation phase when you understand the dynamics of the marketplace but charlie is right i mean most of the shortage in numbers has happened if you go back to the one nine hundred eighty and look at the number of people that prison every housing unit in our county and you look at the number of people for housing unit in the two thousand and ten census almost the entire shortage is because there's fewer people per unit by a very significant amount not a lot it's like about a half or six tenths of a person but when you spread it across a couple hundred thousand units you're talking real numbers and units and what's happening increasingly is that you have an empty nest couple living in a four bedroom house with love the downsize but you can't find the unit and downsize you can't find the quality that you want so we sit in four unit houses with two people when it should be dealing with six something some that you could downsize to but they want to be right near the village center and well over there is no more space for that you know and right and so we go up you know you have to go condo instead we have to change our view of the housing  be around places where we have access to transportation that increasingly you know kids don't have access to these and not on a motor car transportation and so far as much as we support c c today we still are supporting the service that the other thing is i think really interesting to me is not their fault i'm not seeing ok there's enough money to go around yet and it's also you know kind of how hiring you know first was workforce skills and like finding that right employee but then if they did then and sometimes there are often they're importing that worker in the worker trying to find a house that made sense to them and wasn't happening it's a so this isn't just housing for housing sake it's you know it's all wetted together and important to our overall economy and livability and all those transportation all those issues sorry to go on on that other town or did not vote for because they already have the nine one answering system in shelburne so it's a little more controversial there the other six towns are moving you had in there you know i would say kind of methodically working through the issues  and so they're in the process now of kind of bringing on a consultant team to help get things rolling one of the challenges of course you know you've got six towns working together no single town this is a good thing at a bad thing no single town is you know taking charge in a negative way so they're really trying to share the responsibility across the six towns so they bring in somebody from the outside to help manage and get it going so that process is underway right now so it's i would say very much in start up stage you know i would hope in a few months probably in the the mechanics of like you know the space and the equipment and things like that a big part of h r issues you know they've got six unionized work force this is talk about how are they going to rationalize are they going to come together under a new employer how long is it would it take to do that and then even just transition issues you know are we going to do one town to town start together join a  third and all the the operating procedures and things like that of because it's not just the dispatcher it's the dispatchers relationships to all the public safety personnel and you know some of their policies and procedures may be a little different town to town so we've got a dow it's it's not really internal it's a little extra real to all those public safety personnel making sure they all get more consistent so you know  so there's a lot to go through and so i can't remember but they literally have a list i can't remember now if it's if it's fifty you know items kind of on their checklist they've got to work through and so they're still very very early stages on a city so can i is there any better understanding of the investment that's going to have to be made in technical infrastructure to accomplish this and what the town's shares might be hazed now kind of a i do not think we've made a point in my updating of the numbers that we had since the spring so and again i think it was a plea of let's get some staffing responsibility years staff management responsibility to united way as a kind of more natural fit with them we didn't end up in the united way at the beginning because martha maxim was a director and she wanted to be involved more actively on the committee associated want to be both a policy advocate and the manager of the staff and so we were kind of a neutral the a facilitator to do that so that i think i would think it's we heard a new the leadership of those eileen wail and the mayor bob big you know all those folks are around the table and so i think it's really helped moving a lot of policy issues forward over the last couple years and you know things that have been you know and push things down to legislature so i think there are some big policy change things that have been moving forward you know of course that the outcomes on the ground in terms of like reducing the deaths and things you know there's a time lag to that but i think there's a lot of  reason for optimism that kind of getting a better handle on it you know and even the early discussions really led to medical center for showing more of a you know the howard center had the hub and the medicals are really worked hard with their primary physicians to get spokes so all a lot of their primary physicians are now providing treatment options in primary care settings as opposed to having to go to you know power center treatment facility so i've been pretty that organization you know that dealt with everything from transportation funding would handle things like regionals this patch and opioid setting up an implementation piece of the strategy that we have more yeah i'm still at that table with the with thoughts of transitioning off before too long kind of grew out of this conversation as you know i think the town started talking about more mental health issues that their police departments were confronting and how do we work better with howard center and and it kind of started here you know which was very opioid focus but then kind of spread to like you know there's bigger mental health issues also and so you know i'd be kind of curious if your reaction is something we should stay kind of keep a finger in or o always ask me about something that's happened at their p c and if i can answer and i can i always go to the staff and i wouldn't answer question without talking staff anyway on that but you know that's that's just an example of you know to charlie's credit we have trouble saying no when people come to us with need so we do things like regional dispatch so we do something like actually staff up something that's or you know a regional effort because there's no really no other place for it to happen right away at least it's infant i stages and then we pass it on and then when we build the bandwagon there are going to jump and also the start of it was also very clear this was not in our p c program this is a program of the health department how it works out or the medical center is something that probably was too big for us to ignore when there was no other place to do it because of the importance of the region and that all of our community i didn't i can tell you from our police departments perspective our libraries  attention and stuff the howard center has really worked well and i don't know how else to say it but it frees up our officers to be doing other things for others instead of working you know being there for a long period of time and maybe even having to arrest this person which they don't want to do they are now turning it over to howard center this the people are getting the care and attention they need freeing up or officers and and staff to be doing what they were really up to do instead of one on restored of justice center on those types of things that free us up to do what we need to do and we thank the euro going to zation for being a lead in helping sort of just give it a global view ego's players are talking about the kind of the process of the web really and the need to kind of partner and and bring partners in to different tables and understand each other's issues and how we can help each other more because nobody can do all this stuff alone and one more thing that charlie does i'm not sure he's going remember it exactly on your list but he hosts a monthly local managers luncheon where we talk topics so anything that we will you know we have a its precursors but also when we wanted to talk you know whether it was dispatch or other local issues we could ask each other or directly what are you working on those are a thing and it's great he hosts it and  till occasionally we get off topic don't forget you get invited you guys get invited a couple times a year to participate in the things the legislative thing in our annual meeting and you're more than welcome in the questions or comments organizations if this wasn't the executive director and it just made so much sense to do that because we were fifteen years where we had the m p o over here in its own office space some of the r p c and now we have an really everyone we're used what you're adding and how you still keep all these balls in the air and who followers and thanks most of them but but really is everybody working together i mean it's the community that's kind of breeding this and we work well with other  it's as well so you know we're doing a much better job than with a c c d or with our program in the flexibility they give us to some degree with our money we can do some things that need to be done  quest to for play november first as extra mile day on this request in the past couple your past few years from extra mile america that's a nonprofit organization that empowers individuals organizations and cities to go the extra mile   extra mile america that the first mile is the five thousand two hundred eighty feet that life requires us to walk every day in our jobs rosa's parents friends spouses employees and bosses in chasing chasing a following through with every one of the one hundred plus items on our every day to do this the extra mile they told us is finding the energy heart spirit to add just a little bit of extra in our effort to make someone's life special despite how tired we might be after doing everything else in life soon proclamation whereas the town of essex vermont is a community which acknowledges that a special vibrancy exists within the entire community when its individual citizens collectively go the extra mile and personal effort volunteer and whereas the town of essex is a community which encourages its citizens to maximize their personal contributions to the community by giving of themselves wholeheartedly and with total effort commitment and conviction to their individual ambitions family friends and community and whereas the town of essex is a community which chooses to shine a light on and celebrate individuals and organizations within its community who go the extra mile in order to make a difference and lift up fellow members of their community and where as the town of essex acknowledges the mission of extra mile america to create five hundred fifty extra mile cities in america and is proud to support extra mile day on november first two thousand and eighteen now therefore the town of essex select board as here by proclaim november first two thousand and eighteen to be extra mile day the select border urges each individual in the community to take time on this day to not only go the extra mile in his or her own life but to also acknowledge all of those who are inspirational in their efforts and commitment to make their organizations families community country or world a better place invisible in this town despite our passing this resolution each year once again declines for this resolution there are people here who are disenfranchised unloved lonely those with ideas that challenge establishment were just the ones who not so i would not vote for it because the where i was on not true yes and i hope something well i always thought that aspiration was you know you'll never get there you just have to keep trying three four on that committee i think it's appropriate that i report what the committee is doing to the select i still struggle with the quorum question so i mean you know but if we're saying in one  in one group in one room that she's not a select board member but in this room on the exact same topic exact same subject the content of the meeting or she's not a select board member we're considering or a select board produce minutes i mean i'm not sure what else we can do it's not warren is a select board meeting that's the issue and it's now it won't be because it doesn't need to be so i've had i've had stand your i've had people who are watching on channel seventeen call me and tell me that i'm right on that we need to move on i just wanted to give an update on the calendar elaine finished her update and then ended we can come to you with that i thank you max i just wanted a date the committee that we do some scheduling conflicts we have not held our second meeting and so we now have all our ducks in a row and i sent out an e mail today with i believe it was temper nineteenth four o'clock so this is assuming greg and evan or great or evan can make that that is when our next meeting with eighteenth i believe that's what i said to check you know how i really thought i used and i had one other item i wanted to bring up in case that's related to it's not related to governance it's something else that i'd like to appropriate as part of public sphere i would be more than happy if it would make things a little easier from the framework of understanding to offer any commentary on the governance subcommittee at the public to be heard comment and if it's even helpful go sit in the audience whatever works it's a little ridiculous yeah or it was like a solution we can i think we can all work like that so well that's a good idea ok and the other comment i wanted to make was something about gentle seventeen so i'm not your fear where but when you watch our videos our meetings on seventeen they use you tube and one of the reasons why scott is so adamant about what we do with our microphones is because not only is it for the audience to hear us but youtube does transcript complete transcripts of all of our meetings and when you watch them online you just click the three little dots on the bottom of the video and it gives you would open transcript option and then you get the whole transcript of the meeting and you also get taught you can toggle it by minute markers so i just wanted to let everyone know that there's this transcript of our meetings that exists comments on the report and the in the same vein it's not actually a topic in the reading file but the town fair is the first week in october and the early bird sign up and on the fourteenth of september this week and so i just wanted to remind folks that they'd like to go to say five dollars if you sign up this week and i would like to go i would like to ask to go on thursday i'm still not available wednesday which was the day of the annual meeting so we was like like you're still