the following first as a request by john busby for a site plan review and conditional use amendment related to the auto smith property process located five south main street in the commercial district and the second is a request by boulder  amendment let's see and then we have well we'll finish up our public business with minutes and then well as always go to do a bit of session at the end so that's the agenda for tonight i want to remind everybody that this proceeding will be conducted consistent with our do with give these rules of procedure i'll walk you through all that as we go through it so you don't really need them for tonight's meeting but if you wanted written copies of that you get that from jennifer at this point i'd like to request disclosure of any conflict of interest or any ex parte communication with board members thank you and at this point i want to read the definition of interested person or if the applicant does not own the subject property the person owning title of the property a municipality that has a plan or bylaw issue in an appeal or any minister pouty adjoining that municipality a person owning or occupying property in the immediate neighborhood of a propert persons either voters or landowners who by sign petition to the d r v allege that the decision or act of confirmed will violate even as a player by law the petitioners must designate one person to serve as the representative any department administrative subdivision of the state owning property within the minutes about and the agency of commerce and community development only statutory defined interested persons may appeal a decision of his own office or d r b if an interested person fails to make a timely appeal they bound by the office or d or b s decision or act only those interested persons who have participated in a deer be proceeding may appeal a decision were entered in that proceeding in environmental court pursuant to state statute participation consists of offering through oral or written testimony evidence or a statement of concern related to the subject of the proceeding in the case of an appeal we're not the ones who would decide whether someone was an interested party but it's we but we do take responsibility for knowing who participated so there's a sign up sheet going around so anybody who's here and especially one who wants to participate if you can make sure you've signed in so we know you were here that's just helpful for our paperwork thank you now i'm speaking of  that this is a cause i judicial hearing so everyone who wants to speak tonight has to be sworn in so i will read the oath and you just need to say i do i hereby swear that the evidence i give in the cause under consideration shall be the whole truth and nothing but the truth under the pains and penalties of perjury thank you ok so we'll start with the first applicant that's just a buddy come on you can come out and i see there's a print of this plan here for the for the benefit of the public and people have questions or need to look at it more closely as we go on we can do that what started out we'll start out with that and post it for the public all across this one  and i have a question can you talk about the number of parking spaces that you have delineated and how that relates to the regulations for the size of building well according to what jan staff comments  were based upon me with the addition with the addition of this were going to be around five thousand two hundred square feet and jen was right went in or stop comments that she need said we need between ten and thirteen spaces right now we have twelve mark spaces we have three more in the front and we do have some overflow parking right where it says existing to the towers right up here correct yes both sides of the existing garage doors for a parking lot i probably would you know continue that at least right here just a sign out just on this end for the parking lot for customers coming in early morning and night time but i  for that type of lighting on this building on the previous day every decision and the purpose of that is is it's on which side pretty much i think all the interior walls that we all insulated she rocked and everything power storage of vehicles as of now we have you know the we're still for sale vehicles and then we have you know the ones that get dropped off at night or in the morning you can you confirm what you're proposing for hours of operation are the same seven the five and saturdays seven to twelve million yeah they are going to be are allowed to be more about the business the i guess that's what i was asking is are you proposing to change that if we were to write the conditions on the new one you'd want employees so it is adequate wastewater for the for this since we're not adding any employees we're staying the same be taking care of that through the state but on since there's no increase flows there's no need to amend the waste in the current wastewater perm what we typically do as you probably know is condition that change on that permit and the state as you say christine with this in this case it's not really contentious and sometimes it's difficult it just depends y that's not sticking out beyond what is your right because oftentimes we get the questions that show only the foundation of the roof actually just past the thirty foot aren't i'll be up and be clear i haven't looked at the chair correct to see if eaves are included in this they are well it has a case and will check into the architectural designs for years we'll just so that we will be inside right just to be clear the plans that you've given us today show i see there's some sort of three nested sets of wires dotted lines and then there's the grey block one of those three extends showing us which what can we look at here  is not including or not including not including these this is his footprint i believe your footprint right of the concrete foundation joe so this is the foundation n said these are scaled elevations so we have a we have essentially testimony or you know i do a proposal for exactly what the dimensions are  project and we've had several meetings our last few weeks to discuss the project unfortunately we can't support it on doesn't mean our covenants are pretty governance for jericho least we've gotten a lot of input from neighbors that are concerned about such issues as the current currently increased traffic the cluttered appearance on t v you know how this is going to affect the expansion effect i would guess more business have to put on more employees we're concerned about water usage i don't know that's been addressed in terms of we have a finite amount of water and allocated to each of the commercial  affected by by the increased traffic and and in the summer time when the days are over and you know they're sure that there's going to be noise i mean that's just part of what a barrage does in the mix finally we're concerned that having and an auto repair business in the beginning of our adult film that could affect property values that's another issue that we've been discussing we're we're just basically but the bottom line is it doesn't they're still you know they're still a valid conditions so we have concerns that even if conditions are put on the property that they might not be  ok so i have from the from the public comment period on a question about allocation of water there's that will be part of the water of this septic and water supply if there's if there service on the property to justify how much anyone you know has been used ok so let's see and there's a there was a question about the cover and the condition on the previous approval of that storage of vehicles with their we asked about that can you clarify i know that there's two different things going on here one of them is  then for the for the vehicles that are for sale that was approved and there's i forget how many there are but there's there's a there's a lot of these are number of cars part of there for sale and then in addition to that there is covenants about how many i should say co there are conditions about how many cars can be stored outside as that right and you know what that also i know the vehicles for sale i don't know if are like the repair how many vehicles when we talk about this oh ye here the questions from the i think at this point the interest of times probably best to just put this on the record because well i don't store my car my driveway it's also display of items for sale  an item at the beginning of this hearing saving proved to be a party and as such i question whether this is properly called reading and i and i would like to know who we are dealing with there seems to be a i guess i'm trying to understand who has total yes  so can you as ok so the apple camp is bolger hello l l c so who is on who is the question is who is company right i'm not i'm not authorized to that nor do i think it's r properly warned meeting and i properly represented apple cans and there we're going to require that they that that get backed up before we do it it's a finding a fairly it's a finding of fact and it will be a finding of fact in this decision that's fine anyone anywhere any one of the four of you it's as i've just as i've just said i'm i'm we're going on the assumption that the four of you're acting as that as that name so he or any of the or all of the four of you can testify to  which is simple self help if in fact personal systems are not properly maintained they have a nuclear weapon where they have the right trespass on the property to go in and repair it and charge all of their expenses in the form of a lien against all the law and all of that is documented in all of the covenants and already i've been doing this for almost forty five years i've never seen anybody give such an awesome powerful right hand i'm not sure in retrospect why it was done but it was done and it's very tempting to  and we've battled with the tax department of state taking a very simple position you have for it says there's a fire and there's a salary and there is no buyer and there is no seller so why would somebody want to sign up for anything that is permanent in nature they're required to transfer captured even though the transfer actually turns itself does not accurately reflect either the statute or the circumstances so the deed is signed tonight to get the record which was never discussed never intend to transfer of power and authority of this board to someone by fear or to be caught between a rock and a hard place and this was agreed the best way to make everyone whole and to avoid very very serious litigation because these people's homes are under construction there's mortgages a place they need to occupy but that is the sum total the whole purpose of them is to fix one sentence in there because it's not possible to do according to one person's interpretation  i started looking at this lot in september of two thousand and ten and one of the things that i asked him who was representing the l l c was to provide the proof that there was a build of a lot that was a contention and in my  jensen on september thirtieth two thousand and ten and it's to jim carroll earlier this afternoon we discussed what would be required to construct a house unlocked one of the subdivision at thirty bolger hill the list of items is below all road all relevant conditions of the final subdivision approval will need to be met the last outstanding item is the culver and the ditching work you indicated that your contract will be doing this work submission of the insurance certificate for thirty five hundred dollars will be sufficient for and issuance of a building permit and no seals will be a shield till the physical work is complete my attorney's title search and in my deed when i was transferred to a property it does have a easement listed that gives the wind homes  agreement this year in january of this year i decided to go ahead with my building so i came into the see jennifer and filed for my permit application on january twenty seventh february second my building permit was was a third decision which she gave me a copy of and then in that same email there was a forwarded email from john's work to jim carroll stating that two more conditions had not been met one was easement needed to be executed and recorded in the town land records that was regarding condition number five and condition number eight that the copy of the agreement with the linda holmes had not been and i think that that easement was was granted to them and should be reported and would give them the rights if they were promised by the town i don't however think feel like  there's without it there could be a cloud on our title which is a serious problem for getting financing and it's just it's a it's an immediate immediate problem that's a huge concern and it and i don't know i don't understand why it's not not recorded in the us it's his tax tax issue in which case the request that jim outlined tonight will take care of that me so i have actually i'm sorry of one other thing i would like to say is my house about seventy five percent complete this point so i don't question the condition  here talks about having this agreement in place and having it be recorded in the land records of the idea being that it's then as with the land both walk at thirty three boulder hill on this one that's the so there's two of the of the permit and so i'm not clear on what ability to record is soley in the interest of the wind farms to protect themselves from someone else trying to go underneath their easement but the grand tour has done all saucepan there's two versions of the deal they can have either one or both of them one has binding arbitration and which requires an acknowledgement of binding arbitration which is perceived as being beneficial to the wind homes and w buying or treasure which it still gives them the nucular missiles so the intentions are they've gotten everything that was negotiated discussed and approved by the board it is physically in their possession it isn't a town has possession and the town clerk cannot do one work records because of the ministry of policies of the state of  texas so the sole purpose of this meeting is to remove the word that was not discussed or intended as a part of the approval of this plan everything else having to do with this point permit is in order that it's that simple and like i said before law firms these general a couple didn't buy three lots without having legal or illegal opinions confirmations in writing from the time that everything was in order and as far as i hope i have any attorney here let's just keep to what was said to me by the attorney that says that the beneficial interest that run with the wife were transferred to the windows as required by the p thirty three boulder hill land and the other land and i don't know what a beneficial interest is and i don't and i don't see anybody holding anybody hostage literally so i'm not sure if i'm i'm not sure i got a response of answer to my question  question is what's the legal status of the the future legal status of this set of declaration of provenance easements if it's not recorded here so clear that reported all of the covers all of the declaration all of the amendments everything having to do with what binds the landowners is in fact recorded the only thing that the loop homes have elected not to record is the deed that they hold in their possession lot and i'm also running close behind mr bickford and his construction and looking for occupancy pockets as well i think tonight's meeting as we've requested for the amendment it states that we're just trying to have the second sentence to look so that's what i believe this meeting should be about it just states that we're still granting him full power that's recorded enforceable power the only thing we're we're asking for his removal of the second sentence no zoning permit shall be issued until a copy of the agreement signed by the current owners of thirty bolger hill and thirty three boulder hill this recorded in the jericho land record i'm going agreement with the town attorney with this package that was recommended to you folks into our slot owners that i'm in agreement with the town attorney that the second sentence be stricken from the amendment because this will cause a huge financial burden for my family if i'm delayed moving into my house as well along with mr bickford and the other lot three owner is probably right now waiting for his building permit so tonight's meeting i would like to address what we have for the request for the amendment to strike the second son and if the second sentence can't be stricken i would like to have to work recorded everything i would not like to have i don't know what the land homes intent is by not signing but i wish not to have any leverage over my occupancy permit but i have a question about that the two of the building permits have in fact been issued so what i'm really work uncertain about is being able to get a certificate of occupancy of our towns already given to my building i already have one as well i'm in the same i don't have to say the same thing that mr bickford said i'm in the same predicament so it's  what i sign for my property for his preferred all for us owners even the town many attorneys didn't see that this was an intent to block building permits being issued i don't think that was the intent of the board or anybody else but it seems like it's come down to this situation and i think we were trying to get some clarification on this if th gotten advice from the town attorney that for his opinion legal opinion is that it's that it's there we should do this that's we asked for that we a just in case you want to see from the way we do this is for the board will take a couple of comments questions you can ask questions about the application or you can make comments about the application of the boardwalk compile them and then if you have questions we'll try to  find out the answers for them if we can in any way that an error rate comments and the comments in the questions are part of the record  there the there's a phase of things after we take public comment and we were all will be asking the applicant to respond to the questions and comments so that presentation that i would like to make you would like to go through quickly and i will try to keep it to three minutes of first of all i want to make the statement that i do not want to see the light structure and permit in the state of vermont that's required and item nine there is a regular maintained plan as to how the stormwater system will be addressed when there are problems or how it will be maintained on a regular basis both of these issues are missing from the documentation i'm not here to embarrass the town or  that issued building permits i'm also not here to to lay or hinder the construction that's going on my wife and i bought our property twenty years ago i knew mrs rivers twenty years before that this piece of property was her nest and she was always going to sell it we knew there were going to be developments there we wish to leave the builders and the construction going on to continue our concern is the water that runs off of this property and onto our land now item eight and specifically says that there will be an agreement and this is a paraphrase set of conditions that they've always agreed to now we were given a set of papers and asked to review them which we did we expected mr of a day or mr carroll to call us and sit down and discuss that document that never occurred i got a call a week ago from mr vega a to sit down we set a date however he called and said he was tied up in denver at the airport and could not come i also got a call an hour ago that he was still out of town and he is not available immediately to sit down and discuss it what i would like to have to asked that this board adjourned this hearing and give us four to six weeks to get together and put a document of an agreement together the can go forward and be signed and recorded my wife and i have a series of questions which are the last page last two pages of that document that need to be statements that need to be interjected into the documents of this hearing if we get together and have a discussion of what should be written on the piece of paper that is filed with the town and that's where i'm coming from i have had an engineer and it's in the package forty years forty years of rain coming down this hillside and gets diverted here what it has been designed as a design to now channels all of that water into a whole all out war now it comes into my property through that thirty inch holder and his washing through my property those other pictures show my in the cold when the town could put the code in place in the first picture you can see a lot of the major river out that they put in place eight years ago when i only had half a flow of water there was no problem follow that over that time since this pond has been put in when you go further down the hill you can see the serious serious erosion that's a current how do i need to wait until about a rhodesian is three feet deep and five foot wide and what would you do if you had that running across your lawn and was it and was washing out a couple of hundred feet of gravel own soil below your hillside that's my problem and that is what i'm trying to understand how to go to this association and say which needs to be fixed here is what it may cost to be fixed and it shouldn't come out of my pocket it should be used in association problem to prepare their stormwater drainage now that has not been documented in any of this and it's not at this point it's what we want to put onto the piece of paper gentlemen it's a case that as i say the reason for this in the hearing and the ask respectfully that you consider that we equally shared concerns about th ok actually counsel point out one more thing we actually seek legal counsel and that's our only legal course would be to sue the town or the pearsons we actually have no standing unless you granted talents to actually get to the root cause of the problem because we considered legal action and word form that we would actually have no standing we would have to sue the puritans and the town and then they would in turn have to sue the upslope property owners so that's another issue that this create ok so at this point i guess i'll ask the apple cans to see i don't i don't actually have a question is here i got a lot of comments  sale they were clean titles i know that there was a significant delay in developing this because of the storm water has it been to some an engineering site plan was constructed it was reviewed by the review board was it ever we have one neighbor saying that the majority of the water's going into the pond another neighbor saying that that's not the case more water is going it's a fifty fifty like before so we have two different parties thing the water's going to different ways that's a lot of owners when we purchase these lots we had to pay the expense of the construction of th storm water pond the total price for that pond is probably over thirty thousand we all paid our percentage of it so that was money right out of our pocket we've built this storm water pond it's performing the way it was engineered it's taking the storm water collecting it discharging it at a controlled rate i don't see anything going across that call for at a fast rate i see moss leaves everything i can see from the ro there is no deterioration of property right now we have other neighbors asking to have rights put on to my deed if i were asking you're asking a lot of the for lot of others if i go to sell this property and they see this long trail of litigation that could possibly go with the sale of this property i may not be able to sell this property so i'm just asking the review board was it ever determined where the water's coming this was dated may fourth two thousand and eleven with todd and can there are two questions here number one did the new boulder hill l l c development cause or significantly contribute to the rector washout number two what do we need to do to the boulder hill road drainage system to better handle high flows like we currently experience recently experience i believe todd will address the second question at the thursday  r on thursday with the select boards i want to and attempt to answer here as for the first question i believe the boulder hill l l c project did not significantly contribute to the recent problems at the rector driving the new road ditching and stormwater pond appear to have generally accomplished their objective and are there for an hour i'm sorry but there are a few problems that i feel should be corrected in that he goes on to describe those road ditches are not complete about two thirds of way up the road on the left there's a top soil pile and i'm paraphrasing or you can do this for the record and there's a new culvert near the bottom of the road which  the redirection of water that comes off the above that used to drain through the property now sheets of cross the piers and property and when i walk the property with my he said most of the properties coming from the pearsons and use correct but that is i don't know if you want do this but there was additional water coming across the pearson that was directed from and you can see the drainage if you give it you were to walk the property it's pretty clear to see where the water is flowing it is cutting channels across the road over the pearsons property it was happening then it's happened so the issue that i'm saying is what mike pointed out the issues have returned they were fixed and they're back i have no standing to go back and ask them to continue to maintain  k we're we're we're getting off the subject here and we're trying to keep running this hearing the way it's supposed to be run public comment period is closed so i vowed i don't want to get into a back and forth in an argument because it's not of any or by the professional review water does not go up hill and it does not go sideways down the facts are older hill road and we know that i said this to him is not properly maintained with a crown on the greater that is used by the pound is too large so they put the gravel on to the road to fill in the potholes to c all of that material gets put into the storm water so that is now right that was fixed with respect to the frontage of this property and a ditch as  so that's all end and that is functioning contrary to all the evidence that is allegedly there that is functioning perfectly and the issues are in contradiction state and the town engineer has reviewed it and you have the system exactly function correct the there are issues pertaining to property that the water flowed down from that adversely impacted the road in the reactor property called up and she lives probably eighty feet higher than the improvements on bo the mine eyes have already dug a diversionary dish all the way along that boundary taking water coming off the other property and dumping it into the ditch i'm told but it didn't come up that's water that's always been there it's always flowed there post development pre development but now it's the channel farther away from the loop hole property but it's being absorbed on the pearsons property which is on the south side of poachers so you've got you've got evidence and testimony that town engineer has said that directors probably caused by the mine not driveway like many driveways in the town is not and was not properly maintained it serves as a storm water f go up there right now all the work that they did post may eleventh when the wreckage washed their driveway is in fact being defeated by the big greater philly ditches back then that whole system i won't go back thirty years as to when the whole road got wiped out there are many problems up there and there are substantive correction that can be made and for at least thirty years i've brought them to the voluntarily cross their property positive in the left lane so there's work that's been done but we can't fight fiction with truth we have to have observable things that engineers can deal with this property is not creating crown is higher than the pitch of the driveway so the water goes to the sand not down the driveway either side of the rector's driveway foot was good and the driveway was higher so that it didn't act as a fool and if the town had maintained the ditches to catch the water and if it might not have maintained their culture and kept the storm water swale between their property and pearson's from building u if in fact there are some improvements it would be great if the town came to the park and contributed their share i have to ask hard to change the ditching power towards my these people own this property and the deeds have all been issued the greens have been down all the term solutions all the dialogue and all you've got really is a communication tool if you bring the so they go home are the blinders on the fact that yes what was on this piece of paper has been put on the property but they don't find my problem or the real problem which is  great expense to try to have him to design a redesign the spray i'm going to do this with my source hurry check i don't have a large amount of money and i need to find how there and design this is just a simple matter to the ministry official in terms of signing off on on protecting the opportunity of a neighbor coming back if there's an issue within the storm water line but if that is failing or asked to do is modify our previous decision and the conditions are missing so the apple cans have asked us to table a condition now asked us to yes i would i would sit down with you to to fix these problems my question to you is if all of your recommendations or all of your items that you wish to have fixed transferred to the right and deliver ok thank you so so you'll get or official you'll get a written decision from us within forty five days on the cement it will probably be quicker like i always say thank you everyone for coming thank you for your patience on the process i know it sounds restrictive but like i anyone have any