have called wraparound services and therapeutic foster care to all class members and the it was issued solely on the basis of the medicaid act the appeal and wanted to know when oral argument was and so at the present time things are informally i hold pursuant to that status conference other than the court ordered the parties to proceed and try to identify potential candidates for a special master position should the court determine what kind of a petition for the appointment of a special master should the court determine ordered to identify the components of wraparound of therapeutic foster care which the plaintiff class they were alleging were entitled to under each p s t but were not getting because they were not covered by  we presented evidence on the in opposition to the motion for a preliminary injunction that clearly refuted that these component parts that were listed in appendices and they were medicaid covered services the court not only ignored it in the order that the district court said that the state had not contested this which was inaccurate in fact when the court the court took appendices a and b from an filed a motion to joining the united states department of health and human services as sponsible party at that time we submitted a declaration by i think you're going to go with my question as to the what were supposedly the medicaid covered component services we submitted evidence to the district court that was completely ignored and and it's i mean it it's apparent from the record that it w of component parts and said that these were not medicaid covered services as such and you cannot tell they're made the end in the plan just conception of wraparound their services and what the issue here fundamentally is whether the services that are being provided should be provided through a method called wraparound and t f c which i take it is mostly providing them at home rather than at least a fusion there is an amazing amount of either if you want to be charitable specialized language you want to be unshared of all jargon  baffled about some of these definitions of what wraparound services are but when you get to the bottom of it it's either providing it in a customized integrated way at the child's home or having the services provided separately in different places in different modalities at different hospitals in different  was any single service not rendered i'm asking you whether it was a state of the evidence if you know as to whether any service that was rendered in a wraparound t f c mode was effective right we have the evidence from the declaration of reading mccabe that that the that services that should be covered under the medicaid act are covered under the medicaid act by the way we did not have much we never had a hearing on the merits there was no oral testimony we wanted for the hearing was set for october thirty first two thousand and sixteen and in the district court judge said the matter was too complicated looking as went through every category that was listed under wrap around services and therapeutic foster care and determine and said that it looks like the plaintiffs are trying to get a bundled rate but it went through basically told the court that they were the medicaid claim was their primary claim in the court never will be on the a d a s the plaintiffs really from the state's point of view never really clearly and agrees with the state's position in opposition to the motion for primary injunction and says these are not medicaid covered services as such and there we don't know what you know whether any services that you're contemplating under that are and so where this is a mandatory preliminary injunction under nineteen eighty three where the court is is ordering something that purportedly would be an entitlement to these services under medicaid and the centers for medicare and medicaid services say we can't even determine whether there's a medicaid coverage service included in these and for some we can say that there definitely are then you know that the whole legal the the services rendered in nine wraparound and nine f t c mode were ineffective as to any of the first of all we have to show that the service is medically necessary and second we have to show that the service falls that within one or more of those twenty eight categories of covered services  traditional methods such as residential treatment which is not been shown to be affected at all in treating children so part of here comes at least part of the complaint is not that the services are not being provided but the manner in which you're being provide ineffective that would a much or not as effective as it could be if it provided some other way but i think your honor i guess i need part of the argument is that the services they are providing are not effective that they are not meeting children well but isn't that in part because the court took the position that whether the treatment mislead by these children under twenty eight services not wrapped around and not t f c was not an issue of whether it was effective or not the only issue was whether the wraparound services in t f c were quote services necessary and if they were services necessary they should be rendered it may be that the twenty eight types of service which medicaid provides can never cure of these children the question is whether to the extent that they are provided they are provided effectively would be wrapped services and you know you're not interested in whether they're meeting the obligation to provide these twenty eight services individually now or just a reason for that is not really that insistence on wraparound necessary if i like to jump actually to the second part i want to talk to get a little bit about the definitions you know judge best served you know to a nutshell got to what is the definition of wraparound services you know  a policy or a human directed toward the policy institutions of this country which is legislation i don't know your honor if at the end of the day we can show it is medically necessary the services but they may be quote medically necessary and quote within the meaning of the statute really ever convert that may be to are what i said a few minutes ago nineteen state medicaid programs are providing therapeutic foster care for state medicaid programs are providing wraparound services if those other states were able to do