good evening to the twentieth meeting for city council we are glad to see the weather turning and the world waking up and the promise of to have time on the horizon has much to be grateful for in this community we call home we want to start as we have every session for a long time with the roll call an quorum mayor thank you and we also would like to start with a couple items that we have for a long time an opening prayer and that will be led away our deputy city clerk and the paralysis followed by the pledge of allegiance we would like you to join us by standing if you are able as we gather here in the herber of our safety we thank you for fellowship and family we se you will scream mouse strengthen us re store us and inspire us with your love lord fill us with your peace so that we journey and words pour out your log in grace to all we ask that our souls would catch the wind of your spirit so that we would take your promises to all the earth amen i  of america and to the republic for which it stands one nation under god indivisible with liberty and justice for al will now have and i read the consent to gender which are many items that are on this agenda that we will handle at the end with one motion one vote if however you came in order to talk about a particular item that is  stand at the end of her reading will give you an opportunity to come to the podium and take that item off and we will handle it in sequence in the meeting that so and if you could read the consent agenda please item four eight to excuse the absence of council member peters i know for b to approve the minutes of the march sixteenth and april thirteenth two thousand and sixteen regular council meeting and i don't foresee to approve the minutes of the march i said that i don't foresee to two thousand and sixteen city council meeting items twelve b two and seventeen b two except in place on first reading the proposed ordinance amendment to rezone portions of one fifty six west eleventh street in two fifty four maple avenue our traditional residential neighborhood district to the p r d plan residential development district with final adoption scheduled for the made for two thousand and sixteen sixteen sixteen city council meeting item twelve d one to approve the application submitted for the two thousand and sixteen to up time entertainment licenses item twelve d two to approve the license application submitted by jason and maria gordon and behalf of double double g taxi to operate a taxicab business in the city of holland item twelve d three to approve annual business licenses for renewal and adopt the rest associated resolution for the submittal of pool billiards licenses twelve eleven point one two approved a candidate for the city's candidates for the city's two thousand and sixteen crack seal project established a budget in the amount of fifty thousand dollars and to authorize staff to enter into a purchase order agreement with school shuler construction at a unit cost of the one dollar in thirty seven cents per pound i had an easy one point two to approve the proposed budget for the night street project with funds to be allocated as indicated and to authorize adjustments to the professional services agreement with u r s corporation in g m b accordingly i am twelve e's three point one two approve the catering contract for the two thousand and sixteen moment when the island garden season subject to approval asked of form by the city attorney item twelve eve four point one to declare various vehicles as surplus and authorized staff to discuss what was of them in a manner that is most advantageous to the city item twelve east six point two two approved phase one in phase two environmental and baseline assessment with an associates and associated survey if necessary and authorized to proceed with the sale of the city's surplus albertine property item twelve a six point three two approved a sub recipient agreement was lake shore advantage for fiscal year two thousand and seventeen to include services for both the b p w and city with the city's portion being fifty thousand dollars and the b p w portion subject to the sub portion subject to the b p w board approval subject to approval asked to form by the city attorney and that the city's portion be funded through the economic development assistance budget item twelve east six point four to adopt a resolution point five to schedule a public hearing for me for two thousand and sixteen at seven pm in the council chambers to consider the fiscal year two thousand and seventeen how an energy fund budget and to direct the clerk to publish notices as required and i twelve aesopian point one to approve an agreement with c b i telecom to provide a telecom audit for the city subject to approval asked to form by the city attorney thank you hannah so perhaps you came for one of those items and you would like to have that taken off my hours one o nine was twelve st i would like to request that item twelve be to be removed from the consent agenda thank you any other requests from the audience to take items off the agenda for their council any members want to take any items off the agenda consent thank you so we're on to special presentations and this evening we are celebrating a twenty fifth anniversary with nine one one that is an awesome system that's been here for a quarter of a century and it's an easy service to take for granted and we would love to hear a little bit about what is going on at this headquarters for our central dispatch thank you so much mr tim smith the director you've been director for how many years ten dispatch up there and i just want to get some highlights with everybody the presentation is going to be available on the city of holland website and also the information for smart nine one one for both personal and businesses will be available here too just a little background to bring everybody up to speed as a mere said on march twenty seventh we celebrated our twenty fifth year on the air for our what county central dispatch the three founding members were the city of holland who has a permanent seat on our board out of the county who has a permanent seat in grand haven so you green table as per se so we're pretty proud of what we do we are the truly the largest central despair in the state of michigan i always get into a sparring match with genesee county now that they've taken on flint but they have one township or the city of fenton that's not there so i told them when you get everybody call me we do have twenty five years on the air with that on may twenty first from eleven a m till two p m we would be having an open house at dispatch in conjunction with dispatch law enforcement fire the coast guard all the public safety entities so we certainly encourage everybody come up we've had some local businesses donate some food we're going to have the grill out there hopefully it won't catch on fire so a little bit of what we do we do dispatch for twenty one fire agencies six law enforcement agencies for medical and interact with every agency at the state local and federal level that there is that being said along with our twenty fifth anniversary we are upgrading our technology when we went on the air in one nine hundred ninety one there were no cell phones and if you're like me remember you had a rotary phone on the wall and it had a cord they got stretched out to about forty feet by the time the teenagers were done we put in a radio system in  one and we provided radio equipment to all of the public safety entities that radio system has served us very well but it's time to move on to the future our policy board in december approved replacement of our existing system to bowl eight hundred megahertz radio system it'll be a major system that's probably the best penetration in the state of michigan it will have ten different towers on it we're getting guarantees of in building coverage and what we're doing because we are milledge funded dispatch will be providing that initial equipment to all of the different agencies as we move forward so it wouldn't be a double taxation we get that milledge money to take your public safety communication  will be providing all of that out to the agencies then in the future as equipment breaks or if they want to add equipment it would be the responsibility of the agency but there will be no legacy cost coming with that system  a couple of other issues last year we handled the proximate lee one hundred six thousand true nine one one calls in and we handle a total of three hundred thirty thousand and nine or calls at dispatch or staffed twenty four seven actually rings is an eternity before rings is ten seconds when it hits our system if you're out there with an emergency i don't know if you've had to call nine one one nobody calls us when you're having a good day but you want to stanch the phone and that's what we  do we dispatched approximately one hundred thirty thousand incidents last year about ninety percent of the incidents are law enforcement based and the other ten percent are firebase which is a nature of the business are no less important issues the way that they come in and of those hundred six thousand and nine one one calls we did have eleven thousand that were either dropped or hang up calls what we do per procedure in partnership with all on force one as we follow up on every one of those calls so if we get a drop call or a hang up call we make every effort to go back and make contact with that person to resolve that we don't want to have anybody out there one of the tools are using for that is smart nine one one we can actually text out to any form and we have pretty good response rate that we resolve about twelve hundred of those hang up calls last year or so about a ten percent success rate and that saves us sending law  resources out there one of the key pieces i did want to bring is currently we can't receive inbound texting the system that we have today statewide and nationwide is based on forty year old copper wire technology so we are in the process of upgrading our phone system and hopefully by the end of this year we're going to have a solution so that people can text into nine one one certainly were for talking to you but there are incidents where people can't talk whether they're having a medical issue or they may be in a hostage situation or hiding in a closet so we are going to provide those as quickly as possible so we do a lot of work up there and love to have you come up and see the operation again we have the open house on march twenty first and i'll keep it to six minutes we have four minutes for questions and the question is for me yes you might want to mention you've only been in this new building for a short period of time  the new to the old just or the i'm sorry the old to the new yes the daylight the charm showed up for it actually our old facility was in the basement of the grand haven public safety building it's actually to be seven years june fifteenth that we're in the new building but what we did when we built the building core supporters very fiscally responsible we had saved up the funds paid cash so we don't have a bond out the geishas for milledge it's built to withstand an f four tornado and or a terrorist and it's also built to be expandable our old dispatch floor was nine hundred fifty square feet our current dispatch floor is thirty one hundred square feet but that can be expanded to eight thousand square feet if we ever get into a region of this batch position so when we started designing that and it doesn't seem that long ago but it's been several years ago we built it for expansion of board wanted a fifty plus year solution we moved in on june fifteenth two thousand and nine four days later is when we had the trench will downpour in holland we had cars floating in every direction and we built it because we didn't have enough chairs in the old building we had every chair in that building filled and people were answering phones i think there is eight inches of rain and we get on the fifth day and there are people didn't even know literally where the rooms were in the  building you never know when you're going to have those moments any other questions or comments it is wonderful to have such a rock hard system and to have coordination on that scale with everyone having the same radio system and the unable to connect that is so priceless for the service we have here and have the whole city of holland on the same county yes i'm on one is another great thing we're all one family and if people are curious about smart nine one one how do they do that they can go to smart nine one one dot com and what you can do is fill out your personal information on that if and when you call nine one one for register phone that information will show up whether it's medical information where you live where your bedrooms are at and also for businesses and how you can enter a business so that if we get an alarm or a fire will know where we have chemicals will know who the contact people are working with the agricultural community especially for farms because you can have crop areas animal areas you can have chemical areas you can have migrant housing areas so we know all of that information coming in once we get that information it pops up instantaneously to us and then we can push it out to the first responders whether it's law fire or e m s and if you want more information and dispatch again come to the open house but it's o c c our dresses one two one zero one stanton street and we encourage everybody to come out and if you get other groups you'd like to hear the long version of the presentation give me a buzz will come out we'll talk to the redevelopment of east sixty eight thanks to the initiative of the private sector so tonight you have before you a request for a p a one ninety eight tax a day vent for central ani which is hundred fifty five thousand dollars along with the demolition so the request tonight is to hold a public hearing and at the completion check amended city council adopt a resolution approving an industrial facilities tax exemption certificate for twelve years  for one thirty six east thirty six st and i believe i hear is a overhead that shows the building it's on the north south side of the street near crombie avenue and their representatives both from  tell us a little bit about what you're  asking good evening my names i do not pay and i am one of the owners of santa ana we moved into that building back in october and as many of you know that building would been vacant for about fifteen years and we have been working  pretty diligently to try to improve that space both inside and outside the majority of what we're doing in there right now is the the manufacturing and fabrication of customary or custom made wood products mostly in the co space we do a lot of cutting boards serving trays lazy susans and we have been trending more towards some of the custom furniture as well so we're starting to do that i brought some sample products if i can maybe past more later i did break tables out of that be a little inconvenient but any of you are welcome to stop in one of the things it's so important to us about being in that location is that we can start to interact with the public sector a lot more we've done probably eight or ten tours already freedom village warm friend a couple other areas and that we've had those people in walking through our facility and getting a chance to see what we do so great i can answer any questions any questions it is in regard to the new positions that are created and what sort of wage scale is paid to those folks because essentially it is a bit of a tradeoff between the public sector in the previous previous locational run manufacturers job would drive we're releasing some space we had about three three three and a half guys with some part time and now we're up to eleven with plans to get to about twenty four by eighteen months in the range of the wage structure goes everywhere from twelve eleven and a half dollars all the way up to about twenty two so you're operating well within the livable wage i thanks brian i think this is fantastic that jennifer owens who was here earlier has brought you to that to my attention and i it wasn't this was probably a month ago was entirely clear what you were doing and it is really interesting to see how this is turned from what would be appear to be kind of a cottage hobby style industry into something that's much more commercial  some custom but a lot of kind of interesting home items that are really appealing to the stores that we have downtown season home and i'm trying to find the other ones  but that's that's that's great i mean there's a desire for that in riches that local that downtown commercial district in a i think it's great that it can be these things to be crafted by hand  only two blocks away so thank you for being downtown it's my pleasure and i don't want to take a lot of your time with the story but it is it's a little bit cliche but the business did actually start in my basement workshop and then it continued to move from there and my my  partner and i refer to are sold as corporate refugees because we both left kind of the executive ranks of corporations and decided we enjoyed this more so it's a little different perspective for most people who've or in the  trade type position and because of that we've formed some alliances already with the people over korea like tech center because they love having us tell the story and explain that if you know it doesn't have to be a college path for everybody and between my partner  and i we've got three or four degrees but we're choosing to do this so anyway yes quincy i want to agree with bryan burch and i got the opportunity to start down to your place that i think it's going to make a way and go over far so i'm pretty glad you're here and doing the downtown that are happy to do it and again i have to extend an invitation to anybody wants to come in for a tour that could last anywhere from ten minutes to two hours depending on how much you want to know you know that's exciting development on sixty eight it's great variety for downtown and as brian said it's wonderful that we can actually sell it just a couple blocks away and to help people learn appreciate your investment thank you thank you can have a seat and now we are opening a public hearing so is anyone in the audience have anything to say about this request or at the p a one ninety eight ok we like to vote so like people are ready to vote and i could you call the roll please yes birch yes then yes white man  yes yes one parent yes byrd yes madam mayor yes motion passes great we'll have to add this to the list of wonderful stories about how in michigan thank you we are getting now to public oh special order no public comment anyone here in the audience who would like to come forward to talk about something then just come and give us your name address and you may speak for five minutes green light means go ahead yellow light means you have one more minute red means it's done ok i don't think leave all that complication but my name is penny shuff in this is sue frost are at my address is one to bay models holland michigan meet them and i'm at four seven zero six force ridge drive in holland and we are here representing the lake shore friends of transit and we are a ballot question committee that we just want to put on the record is in support of the max bus renewal of the millage every five years and that's coming up we think public transportation is an incredibly important part of this community that keeps it really unique and special so we're asking the public to support it may third vote yes it's a renewal once again it is not a an extra ask we just want that to be put on the public record this is an exciting year f this summer we will be close to our five million three rider and so as you go out and about in holland it started in the city of holland expanded to the township now to the city is zealand for riders i manage the holland community now center and many many of our patients every day the way that they get to their physicians office to the lab at holland hospital and to fire with your walgreens for their prescriptions is via the boss and it has ridership that is all ages all social economic and it is something that we feel very passionate about and so we hope that those and in holland township vote may third for the renewable of the millage we also i just wanted to rock we're working really closely with the disability network and that obviously the support for that is is as important as well so thank you for your time thank you thank you good evening my name is dan martin i live at one three seven three three cottage drive in grand haven michigan and i'm going to be running for out of the county circuit court judge to replace post as he retires at the end of his term so i just want to take a little bit of time to introduce myself to the mayor and the council members and other distinguished guests who are here i will not take all five minutes i promise i graduated from law school in one thousand nine hundred five and then moved to grand  michigan in one thousand nine hundred seven where i worked was called fan basically representing school districts and local units of government so most of my legal career for nearly twenty years has been here in ottawa county representing cities townships and villages i historically represented holland charter township as well as park township and i still serve as the park township attorney and so i'm running because a couple of my friends and including some of my former clients had asked me to run for judge when they saw the ad post retiring and so my intent is to continue to keep that balance on the bench that post brain somebody that has a good strong civil law background well rounded that focuses on a lot of different issues including zoning issues including civil issues labor and employment things that cities townships and villages really care about in addition to representing cities and townships i also represent school districts i'm currently with the true law firm and we represent over five hundred districts throughout the state i do a lot of work with the black river schools and special education areas we do work with the west out of the schools and the hall and public schools as well and so if it is ok with you i would like to approach and just hand out a little something for the council members good evening to marin city council members we have a planning commission has got a handful of items for you tonight so let's jump into the first one the first one is a proposed to rezone of a portion of the leaven east thirty second street from the r one one family zone to get a one family residential district to the pierre de plans residential district this is a second reading for you tonight as you can see on the screen here that the portion of property that is is up for the rezoning is really kind of internal into the block here that is north  thirty second street and east to central avenue west to college and so thirtieth street so rest haven the maple woods center is currently located right here bethany christian reformed church is located right just some additional background for this so rest haven patrons is coming forward and in also for the planning commission and is looking to get a development plan approved actually that they here and i think it might have i might have to show that yes so this is kind of a bird's eye view of the building that they're proposing to rezoned otherwise the they already had property that was a properly zoned for the building so the request is to rezone just a small portion here the planning commission has already approved the development  or approved a development plan for this building and it is contingent year rezoning i got a few slides here of some elevation plans of what the building as opposed to look like go back to the site plan here so the property owners on the north side of the proposed development on thirtieth street were really rather vocal at the planning commission level and they had some good legitimate concerns and so they ended up working with rest haven and actually came to a good a good kind fruition an understanding of how things are going to proceed with the development plan and they had some good insights and good ways and with coming up with a great kind of a screening and  fencing plan along the a property line here they also had some good suggestions that rest haven is working into reducing some noise from the age factor with the neighbors also had some concerns about a drainage in the area and those basically have all been taken care of and i believe the neighbors included or they gave to the planning commission conway one pager and we included that in in your report and just sufis it to say that that most of the neighbors are are good with the development moving forward there is a lot of sadness  that that a lot of the trees are going to be coming down because this was kind of a wood lot that lots of neighborhood kids love to have forts and stuff and so you can probably imagine that so most of the trees will be coming down and that was kind of the one sorry part of this but the good part is that there's going to be a wonderful new facility being built on that property for more seniors in the community so here again there were the specific request is to rezone the ruff i think the proof that a good compromise has been reached between rest haven and the residents is that nobody is completely satisfied but everyone seems to be reasonably ok with with the plan as you say the neighbors in the area have indicated that they're ok with the rest ivan has proposed in terms of speeding him the issues that they are raise so i just want through this whole process i commend both westhaven and the residents for being who operated with each other and you know when life is great when stuff works well this worked well so i think everyone's happy with the fact the project can move forward and life have one of the residents from brevard read a statement at the planning commission level and you were one of the people they thanked for having been involved in meeting with them day and the city staff and helping to navigate through all this and they all realize it's a change but is a change to help people that need a place to be and they way they were very gracious about that and but they also thought about what what could possibly be tweaked and rest haven did listen very well and so it really was a lesson in how conflict can be resolved in a constructive manner very inspiring any other comments ok so  mark yes this one is a text amendment that's coming to you proposed by the planning commission city council members of it the opportunity to to a dive into this on a couple occasions it has some study sessions so i am not going to get into the nuts and bolts of the so much i know that there is a some members in the in the audience who are likely going to want to speak to some particular issues to just suffer said to say that on the face of it the proposed text amendments are really the rather minor and that there's not much verbiage that goes along with them but they are to a section thirty nine dish two eighty four and if you can see the proposed ordinance the the proposed changes to subsection a and b are really kind of  housekeeping items unfortunately last year we inadvertently and accidentally deleted some of those sections which happens on occasion when  we're kind of cutting and pasting things so this really is just looking to to bring those items back on board the real kind of meat and potatoes part of this ordinance deals with  the amount of vehicles that are allowed property that is owned t r in district right now right now our ordinance has a maximum of six parked vehicles are allowed on any property in the t r n district in that's just kind of a blanket requirement and it kind of came to our attention by  somebody in the audience a bill circle that came to the planning commission voice three four months ago already and said we think that we probably will have an issue with that because this is this also would apply then to any kind of  residential use like a school like a church other things of that nature and just on the face of it that's kind of problematic because those types of uses are probably going to want to have more than  what should be the proper amount of vehicles allowed to be parked on any given property and that are in zone district lot of discussion by the planning commission sufis it to say the planning commission is recommending in ordinance change that continues to have a cap of six parked vehicles be allowed her property but just that the ordinance be clarified slight play to just say that  that would apply to any residential property that has one two three or four residential dwelling units on it so they say it's it's excluding those a non residential uses like  churches and schools so thank you not answer any questions if you have any questions i have a question  thinking of the planning commission in relation to those kind of situations you know i can understand mr circle's point of view in that if you have more than six legally more and specifically to a lot of the existing small apartment buildings like the one that you mention the parking that's there right now is legal it's legal non conforming and they will new apartments or something like that that would come on or or conversions we do have conversions on occasion so you know i think the planning commission one of the items that really kind of struck them is you know that the t r n zone district it's strictly pretty much strictly a residential zone district and it's they really want to have the good balance between you know the primarily single family homes that are in that zone district and in the number of cars that go along with that and the thought really was you know if you if you have a typical home you've got a driveway and usually driveways can accommodate three four maybe up to six cars if you start going more than that you're basically starting to to say that it's ok to have parking lots  primarily single family residential neighborhood and i think that that was kind of one of the one of the big concerns i don't brian can probably trip into in the mare is there on the planning commission but i think there was a real concern that there's there's a delicate and fine edge and you don't want to go over the edge of basically saying you know parking lots are ok to have in this to have an end zone district i think they want to say you know if we're going to we're going to err we want to be more conservative and you know i can tell you too that the planning commission if you read the report there was there were the deliberations on this of went for a couple months and the commissioners did not see eye to eye on this and there was really going to two different camps in some of the some of the commissioners did things that it might be it might be wise to allow some kind of a grandfathering for  the duplexes and stuff that for the for the homes that were grandfathered in to have to have to be allowed to have more than four unrelated people in them so there were there were probably three four commissioners that were thinking that you know we should be doing that but on the other hand there are you know they're ultimately there ended up being a majority of of commissioners that said you know while some of that may be true we really want to kind of err on the side of being conservative in not really wanting to allow the parking lots to kind of take over or potentially take over and in some of the neighborhoods where you may have a lot of doing yeah you know we need construction staff did do see in a step did do quite a bit of just eyeball surveying going around and while lot of this discussion was going on with the planning commission and we took note that there are you know we didn't find many properties at all in the entire tier and district that had more than six cars parked on a property at any given time so i mean that's kind of planning commission there was a very strong conversation on this and i i readily admit i i pushed for the men or the recommendation that is in front of us tonight and it goes back to the original intent of the planning commission had recommended on the number of unrelated individuals in the home which we subsequently grandfathered in the properties that you know we basically created this problem by grandfathering those properties and which in my opinion he still was a foolish decision on our part so that said i think the the opinion of planning commission is that we saw that the that limiting four was the best choice and in the same case you know it hearing to the character of that neighborhood or the downtown neighborhoods that  we don't want to see six to ten to twelve car shoehorned in to what is a traditional neighborhood and if you actually if you go onto google maps right now there's an exe it's an old picture but on thirteenth street the neighboring property to one of the those that were in conversation about there's currently one with five maybe six cars on a permeable surface with probably three of them on a n things but i still believe that you know having and getting this is the right thing to do is as mark said in the case of the fourplex is that we already have some of those have the adequate parking already in in place and i think we need to maintain what is the character of of an owner occupied neighborhood and in some cases you know where there's a rental has restrictions i mean i personally live behind a home that's at some point was grandfathered in the entire backyard is paved and there's ten cars back there and it's a parking lot it's ridiculous so i mean i guess i see that in my own back yard from my my bedroom window and i don't see i don't think other people should have that there either mike marts there's a couple things i caught i hope i heard you correctly so i'm i'm not going into this blind but i'm just things are going to go you said early on dave situation there that was being grandfather why is this in the different they were grandfathered because they had more than four people so where's the difference well i mean with the ones that dave was referring to they they actually have the parking on the ground right now so i mean they it is nonconforming i think with  situation that came up on thirteenth street a grandfathering never occurred so they they were they were able to legally have ten parking spaces there to take to accommodate the ten people so they yeah ok i mean i'm not i'm not following because we grandfathered more than four people your rationale with him is that it was grandfather they may have had enough i mean in dave's being very conservative we go down to our definition of unrelated they could have up to thirty two people in ok if i might finish my question ok so i guess i'm not following and i'm not you know it's just not ending up in then the subsection c that's in red plans for paving in the central neighborhood are macas a maximum of six vehicles are allowed  property that contain one for residential units this particular case i believe we just talked that they have more than four residential dwelling you or four units within this complex so again where is this different than what we've got right now ordinance and it's in red which means it's new stuff ok so i have a quick question those four places are those are those are t r n are those a commercial those are there see one and see two maybe no never mind i see it's there are two here and they are around those particular properties i believe i mean when they were built forty fifty years ago i want to say that they they had the proper zoning at that time they were zoned our five or our six when we did a wholesale rezoning ten plus years ago and we created this t r n zone district then basically rezoned the whole central neighborhood that property those properties were included in that and in zoned around knowing that they basically were were becoming not conforming properties but that decision was made to say you know we don't want those particular apartments in that location to expand you're going to be legal non conforming uses in can continue on indefinitely in the parking that goes along with that is is legal then also i think you know the situation that we're talking about on thirteenth street is much more in the present  i believe was back in two thousand and twelve two thousand and thirteen the city set up a kind of a study committee and in the whole neighborhood area there were a lot of people that were a part of kind of the study committee and they came up with a lot of the the recommendations that ultimately made their way into the ordinance requirements and one of those was this issue dealing with having a cap on the amount of parking that that is allowed in that whole neighborhood area and ultimately you know that was expanded to to go to the entire t r and area so this particular property at thirteenth street the the law at the time when it was built was you can only have six vehicles on that property so the property owner knew that they knew that they had a duplex that they were allowed to have six unrelated individuals in one unit in four in the other but they knew going into that that this parking cap was in place so they're in now you know suggesting in in advocating for that to be changed to allow them to have you know more parking on the site but you know that they never were were given a non conforming status or never were legal when it comes to park it so hopefully that well we'll have ten residents in another ten we do well in units but not enough parking that's we mean we've got ordinances all over the place that see if you've got x number of square feet you've got this you've got that you've got to have and we allow that to happen we that was allowed to happen so it's time yes yes him might you i think you just hit as close as possible to any idea or  notion of a grandfathering for what i would call the specific property that really we're talking about and so go back to your two thousand and ten eleven ish study that started to feed these things this way when did we delete the ordinance that we're now or the language that we're now placing back kind of important because if it's been deleted you're back in you're in conformity you're not in non conforming illegally use at that particular moment put those up on the screen if you will just so i guess i might offer you here i know what you just hit on as far as the square footage and the amount that could be paid that was a direct response that was a direct recommendation and a direct count we count by parking space not by car which may translate may not but for instance and i said it in the study session if we're using the square footage that was recommended out of this process as a solution to the problem that we're talking about again not all cars are built the same size with all due respect to brian's  a google earth image or whatnot i've seen the image the cars are parked illegally regardless of whether we've got this language or not we've already got that orchids that should be easily taken care of and we probably don't need this to get that accomplished if they're parked off the paved surface it's my understanding that's a ticket will that's in the city oh he's really running and so i too am concerned about the way we're going about this swipe at you mark you're doing your job in your you know you're following the process as prescribed but i suspect this will mean we can say yes to this tonight and i suspect it still won't solve the issue you know in that particular neighborhood  hard about these six cars that was adapted in in january of two thousand twelve and it indicated six cars per property of the language here is is changing that to say six cars allowed per property for properties that are wonder for residential that one before is what's being added here the six car limitation is already there in the ordinance and the other change to that is currently it refers to the whole neighborhood district yes it refers to the whole neighborhood district where this change would make your apply to the central neighborhood district that's part of the t r a district may i ask why that's all red line then making us think it's all random language if you're saying there just a portion of it was added so all of all of the stuff that you can see on the screen that's that's read that was in the ordinance you got to go down it ok you would you just want to look at the that's that's what i'm asking about whether that's that one right there yeah  now has a cap of six in here but we have reworded it in and change the format of the of this section a little bit so basically we red lined it as being entirely new although the six cap is still in there ok i'm i'm i'm sorry it doesn't make any sense you allow the man to have more than six residences you're specifically calling out here one before where is the problem and why the conflict if he's got the fees allowed to have more than four residents why can't he have more than have the proportion number of parking space to to that point if city council would like to have different language here tonight you have you have the ability to do that this is what planning commission you know deliberated on in fact is planning commission and staff we we went back through a city council minutes you know back when a lot of these ordinance changes were taking place well when you made changes to allow the grandfather g to allow us six unrelated adults versus you know just four for all new rental properties at that time we went through the minutes and said where you all kind of deliberating everything that you're deliberating now was there any any thought in discussion of what could be some of the ramifications of of allowing that not conforming but not following it through to allow people to have all of their stuff to like a car and we were unable to find anything in the record that would show that you counsel any of planning commission at that time was was thinking that far through it so it's completely a i've got to believe ron it's completely within councils ability to night if they want to if you want to have more than six park vehicles allowed per property you know the way this language is they you can you can do that tonight if you want wayne ok going back to the fore in the six a number of years ago we talked about that and we agreed to grandfather it because we had said six people went ahead and they built accordingly in this one minute so even though with it was not real popular we agreed to that in  saturno there is a picture of the house of forty two forty three east thirteenth street and i'll just pass that down there so you can get a look at it i actually walk down there the afternoon and walk to the back of that talked a couple of the young people that actually live there there is a driveway to the west and there's a driveway around the horseshoe to the east side in the parking than it is in the back part of the you part in walking back there this is a cemented in area the cars if you look at it there you don't see it from the road there is room for roughly seven or eight cars back there were i could see  seems that we allow them to legally cement that particular area in there we granted them the right to have that number of residents there and it seems reasonable to allow them to at least park their cars there it keeps cars off the road it keeps people having to walk from another parking area to their residence when we talked about going to the six actually the neighbors said they were in agreement with that they didn't really like it but they could understand with the investment and so there was basically in a neighborhood agreement that this was an ok thing so we did not necessarily have to look at the parking because we made that assumption and now this is coming up as a problem and i agree with mike that this is a reasonable kind of thing to allow that those kids to have a place to park their cars if if i can  for you i actually included some of the language at the planning commission was looking at that they feel would take care of the situation and would allow these grandfathered properties  to to be able to park or to to allow them to provide all the parking that they needed and if you'd like and if you just quickly read that for you all ok so this was a motion that the planning commission it it failed on it on a four to four vote so it wasn't moved forward but the language of read for one to four residential dwelling units a maximum of six parked vehicles are allowed on site for the first dwelling unit into the additional part to be of coals are allowed on site for the remaining dwelling units up to a maximum of eight parked vehicles per property and this last this part here no kind of gets to the what you're debating and for legal non conforming duplex properties that have more than four residents per dwelling unit the number of vehicles to be allowed to park on the property at any one time shall coincide with the number ordinances are an easy mark i understand that we've got a couple of different areas here and let me ask very specifically on this yard is he in i'm sorry is the property owner in any other violation as far as our seventy five percent of the the side yard with a fourteen foot minimum ten foot with or fifty percent of the rear yard they are in conformance with all those items yes ok so how when when do we pick and choose what part of the ordinance that we're going to enforce if he is in compliance with everything else seems to me there's a conflict here you know so we are in foreseen this six kohls allowed on that property at any given time and we've been alerted to that by complaints from neighbors and when we receive the plane the complaint we we have to go take a look at it and there have been some instances when i believe some civil infraction tickets i believe there were civil fractions rule yeah were issued so we're just we're enforcing the ordinance in those preventing him i'm sorry i'm not going to go down that way it doesn't matter this case we're looking strictly at what our ordinance says and what we're allowing to do ok favor of having cars all over the place however we have rules and regulations here that we set forth planning commission recommendation whoever that we have to follow and abide by whether we like it or not we should have thought of it before we got to it to me there's just too much conflict in here with a grandfather in the not grandfathering the maximum of six cars packed with up to four residential this man's got a six unit he's grandfathered in there to me four c of subsection c doesn't apply to this one unit the next door absolutely you know it's a conflict in and i don't how are we going enforce things if if we're talking out of both sides of or our star mom our mouth that's where my conflict  think brian lynn was next couple questions she said something earlier that i want to just make sure that got right when the property was built the rule words read a maximum of six cars per property correct so i also understand we are sand we've allowed the variance on the dwelling the number of unrelated residents but those were incorrect in pride there was actually as are two parcels there that became one is that in the way that houses on thirteen a i believe there were three parcels at one time and now there legal duplex at one time they kind of reconstructed it they lifted it up and did extensive remodel in there and so that that's a duplex there was a third home i believe in between the three homes and i believe that that was was that demo to bill and but they were not they're not allowed to build another home in filling six cars yes so the house was built with the intent of breaking one of the rules and then now coming in and saying hey we built this house we're allowed to have this many people but we can't park these cars and so we want to change rules i believe so ryan clarification about the boards and commissions and study this the planning commission reviewed this on multiple occasions and their recommendation is the same recommendations and the report that is correct has the neighborhood improvement committee consider this right there is a strategy the city council has dealing with strong neighborhoods the believe that this is consistent with the intent of council a year ago or so on the minimum of four and related individuals so i just point out that there is a multi year effort multi boot effort strategies effort to keep neighborhoods strong and not to not worry a lot about the the businesses of rentals and i will point out as noted even in the subsidy recommendation for substitute alternative that didn't get to be recreation as there is a limitation in certain insists on vehicles it's just a factor if that it wants to be in that property and i think that  think one of the things pigeonholing ourselves on with just because it's paved doesn't mean that the purpose needs to be parking so for example if somebody wants to put a basketball half basketball set up in their backyard they'd be able to do that and pave x amount of space to fall within the guidelines and park a few cars on the road but it wouldn't it wouldn't create this issue of having way too many vehicles coming in and out or perceived number of too many vehicles there's some other purposes you could put in place utilizing that paving component that wouldn't just be used for parking and that would kind of fit with our neighborhood component or single family kind of concepts so you know i think they answer your question one of the challenges is yes they check the box on a number of our ordinances and some of the rules we have in place but but they don't on all of them  you know i guess i'm from where i'm at it's where we've had other conversations about other topics that while not directly related to this have kind of gotten at the idea of really valuing our neighborhoods in the residential kind of component to those neighborhoods especially as we encroach on the whole college neighborhood area and to me while i i'm sympathetic to this specific instance some i'm also really trying to listen to what a lot of the families and neighbors are saying and be respectful of taking a chance now and saying where to put our for our kind of stance of we want to protect our neighborhoods and you know we looked at a map earlier of another neighborhood that you can see the number of non homestead rentals  n the the just changing face of some of those streets in the area and this is one of the things that while that won't directly prevented it helps women kind of the growth of some of those rental overbuilt there so they could put a boat there and maybe a camper there and that would be ok but the cars not because somebody who's actually living there there's a there's a rational kind of  thing it's we have not awful lot of people that are going to continue to do this so we kind of put a limit on it so i think there's some flexibility here that we really need to think praise placed upright lower priority in essence clean up our ordinances and streamline them so we don't have the conflicts that we're seen tonight so if we're going to talk about priorities it's probably also talk about the fact sometimes our priorities collide with one another and then with all due respect to the idea that we pigeonhole ourselves with parking on pavement if i recollect that policy discussion when we talked about square footage and how much of it quite frankly it was about grass versus concrete  and that's it and what i mean by that is the amount of green space in any given area so unfortunately if that's the case then i don't care whether it's a basketball court or not it seems to be you know how a private property owner uses that concrete that particular point if it's meeting goals green space and other things could be argued that it birch what we mean what when we when we talk who should be left to who i don't understand then forgive me no i'm saying if we have a we have in ordinance that says no more than x number of square feet on a particular parcel maybe concrete or paved space that was what cane a few years ago to this neighborhood in deference disagrees base concerns right that's what we have at my point is that we have an ordinance that says six cars that's it you can pave half of a double lot you can park six cars there that's the ordinance at as it stands that and that's it that's what planning commission was respecting the only thing that's inconsistent here is how inconsistent or consistently inconsistent we are at this table and it's frustrating that we're allowing exemptions because well they paved it already it's foolishness it's absolute foolishness for us to sit here and say well they did it so let's allow it that's not how our laws work we're cleaning up something to ensure that residences so that commercial districts churches and others aren't in noncompliance with these things that's why we're changing it we're not changing it because someone overpaid their lawn because they built something that they knew they couldn't have that's what's it that's the problem with this and then i've had this problem s it came to planning commission and i had this problem when i one of the same rants last year when we grandfathered these properties in so let's stop fooling ourselves that somehow we're doing something wrong right here the best thing we can do is stick to the ordinances the laws that are in place that respect the character of the neighborhood not because someone foolishly for their lot that's it ok i think reasonable minds can differ on your perspective as to whether six is the magic number so i mean that's what this body dies and i agree let's not fool ourselves we make sausage in this room at times and doing it tonight and that's what we're here for and so reasonable minds can differ mike with all due respect mr birch i'm not arguing the fact that we're changing rules here i'm arguing the fact that i don't see clearness in those rules and if i don't see it i was staff supposed to enforce them that's what i'm arguing if you did something illegal i'm not i'm not defending what happened over there i'm trying to understand because as i said before i am not happy with what has happened in this neighborhood in the hole in the neighborhood i've got personal experience at two seventy three said well saint house built my by grandparents we had no way to do but sell it to an investor who tore down the grudge and pave the backyard three forty lincoln avenue the same exact thing it makes me sick but if we've got the rules on the books we've got to understand that we've obviously had a problem to this point i want to make sure going forward that we don't continue this problem i need to have it ice clear crystal clear to me that we can enforce when we get questions we can without adelle come in and say we did this exactly right and this is going to cover ninety nine point nine percent we're never going to cover one hundred percent of the situations i'm not stupid enough to think that we have to be able to get up to ninety or percent but if that's all i'm saying that's why i'm questioning this i'm not defending what's happened over on thirteenth street and that's why i said i didn't want to go into the tickets for this and that that that's not my argument here that's to me in this particular situation that's an entirely different arena we need to get this ordinance cleaned up once and for all as you said we've been here too many times i don't want to come back again so we have a limit of six and the parking and someone chose to put in twelve parking place discernible number of mean if you have choose another number it's it is what it is and we will enforce whether it's sex or another number yes i mean that that's giving tools to staff  yeah i guess you know how go for police time i'm just going to call point of order if i can because there's some point we actually need to have a public hearing in myself included we kind of digressed past the question stage first out into our deliberation hold now ok is there someone from the audience that would like to speak to this you mean thank you bill circle forty two east lakewood boulevard i did send you a letter yesterday via e mail and i don't want to repeat what was in there but i do want to highlight a couple of things and then respond to a couple the issues that were brought up tonight i know i have a limited limited amount of time to do that i  think for starters just to respond to some of the questions about what happened at forty two he's thirteenth street and i don't want this to be a discussion about that issue i think there's a broader issue going on here tonight that we need to look at but but in defense of my client what happened there just for explanation when the ordinance was changed with regard to the parking restrictions it was changed the same night that the council adopted language that said the number of unrelated adults should be kept at six my personal view having attended all those meetings was that the understand would be that it be six hundred adults in six cars the numbers match up they make sense the problem is the language with regard to number of cars applies per property and the language regarding the number of adults as per unit so that it was clear that it was going to be six adults per unit i think the understanding of certainly understand my client was that was going to be six cars per unit as well and that the two were going to match this was not an effort to thumb some of their nose at the council or the city with regard to number of parking we get the same night we approved parking said you can pave up to fifty percent of your back yard that seem to be the focus it seemed clear that this would be allowing more than six cars in certain situations and that's what happened it was an attempt to somehow skirt skirt the rules or somehow and exert undue pressure on coun in any respect i think this issue is larger than forty two he's thirteen street it's larger than the whole neighborhood and i think somehow we're losing sight of that as i indicated in my letter what we're asking the council to encourage you to do is to adopt a proposal that would take into consideration the size of the property ok what we have been front of us now is a one size fits all ordinance six cars regardless of the size of the property regardless of the number of dwelling units six cars in all circumstances i don't think a one size fits all approach works particularly because as we're seeing now this is being expanded to the central neighborhood district it's not just the whole neighborhood area we're now looking south twenty fourth street west avenue this is a much larger area and what we're saying is any duplex try plex fourplex regardless of the size of the lot you get six cars period including visitors so you have a fourplex for example i mean let's say it's in the southwest corner of this area we're down in twenty fourth an odd one neighborhood somebody wants to build a fourplex that's allowed into the r t r in zone district they come in they've got a lot that six seven eight times the size of a single family home and you say don't we don't care how much space you have you get six cars period no matter what we don't care if you have visitors during the day we don't care how many people are living in the property you have a fourplex you know if you figure two adults per unit that's eight unrelated adults this isn't an issue about grandfathering the situation of these thirteen street this is about somebody new coming before you saying i have a large lot i want to build a fourplex sorry six cars and oh by the way you can't park on the street or i either we don't know where you put in we don't know where you go with your visitors that's it i mean it how does that not create a problem how do we not see that this one size fits all approach does not work and you know when we look at what's allowed in the arts here in zone district we say look single family home five thousand square feet minimum lot size if you're  multi unit property you have to be larger forty eight hundred square feet per unit if you're duplex you're double up try plex triple last fourplex quadruple up ok we're saying six cars are fine in a single family lot now we got a lot four times the size sorry still six cars we don't care that we have more adults living there six cars will carry many visitors you have six cars i just don't see how that makes sense i think we're creating problems and we're losing sight of the forest for the trees here i think we need to have a broader approach when we look at this and think let's look at the size of the property let's look at what we're trying to accomplish here and adopt an ordnance that takes that into account and that's exactly what my client has he has a double lot he has a duplex on a double l he was allowed to have ten and related adults he was allowed to have enough paving that he allowed to have twelve cars just whatever you do it on him or six cars ever show up on that property i just don't see how that makes sense so it's not just that specific property but it's a larger issue that we're looking at i just don't want to lose sight of what that larger issue is thank you thank you struggling for decades to remain maintain our homes and or neighborhood we feel that we have we feel that what we have worked for our property values and our way of life is again under assault tonight we are frightened by indications that efforts are again being made to diminish the few protections we're given under the zoning ordinance namely that an out of town landlord operating a multimillion dollar business warehousing students is trying to change the limits on park cars allowed and he's property limits that were imposed to reduce noise traffic paving demands and loss of green space as well as eliminate eyesores created by  excess of number of vehicles as members of the city council you are responsible to support protect the found the residents of the city and its neighborhoods so we call upon you to act in our best interest rather than allow for the degradation of this neighborhood five years ago following disputes that lead to a building moratorium and a careful community study the landlord in question promised to construct three reasonably size six bedroom houses that would have fit reasonably well into this neighborhood thus meeting the city's expressed desire to assure architectural compatibility and main maintain a vibrant urban neighborhoods by minimizing and mitigating negative impacts through creative site planning and design the plan would have provided adequate parking without a strong visual impact it was approved by the city agreed to by the neighbors but that was not to be following the construction of the first of the three sisters that loan or sought a property division that he knew was illegal in an attempt to secure fo additional rental rooms he did receive a building permit and proceeded to build the ten bedroom grooming monstrosity at forty two east thirteen being wall aware of the six car limit he still port far more concrete that would then what was necessary and much of that appears to have been poured beyond the limit allowed in the building permit that work was clearly ordinance of prohibition paving areas in excess of that on an adjoining properties and those on the same block sensa time despite repeated requests and warnings he has refused to enforce the six car limit on this or other properties now after he has finally been required to appear in court he has the gall to ask that his illegal behavior be approved and rewarded by removing the six car limit that he has in essence he is asking you to approve the visual blight for which he is responsible there is no shortage of available parking any student can secure a parking permit from the college for parking spaces within three blocks of the site students on many a campus would be delighted to walk a mere three blocks to reach retrieve their vehicles and there are many rental units here that provide very little parking in foreseen a six car limit would not create a hardship that warrants the continued threat to the integrity of the neighborhood it's interesting in a sad sort of way that while the city is encouraging the life here where calling upon you then to ask on behalf of the families the citizens of this neighborhood and community as we seek to convey that to as we seek to continue a vest it investing our time and resources to build a coal as coercive secure neighborhood we beg you to approve the proposal as submitted by the planning commission without changes act as if this was occurring next to your home thank you good evening i'm kristen gray from sixty east thirteenth street i know that you're concerned about tightness of the ordinances but you also seem to be concerned about the strength of our neighborhoods i know that those are two values you need to balance tonight i feel like we're the outpost we're on the corner of college and thirteenth we're surrounded by non owner occupied homes but we stay we get to know our neighbors we work to get to know the students we try to be a stabilizing force there we have students last fall that came over and picked peaches from our trees and bake pies we try to be stabilizing force in our neighborhood but there are four of us there are four owner occupied homes there that's it so i'm going to ask you to really consider the value of the neighborhood and of villas of us who choose to live there who want to remain there thank you thank you i'm dave the block i also live at sixty's thirteenth street i spent the last four years on the neighborhood prudent committee i spent twenty before that on our street during that for most of that time so yes i've worked hard to keep our core city buyable and yes i walk past fifty percent of the homes on my block have which you've defined as parking lots behind their home does not make for a residential feel for the neighborhood so i know the ordinance doesn't limit it to fifty percent of the homes on your block and have parking lots behind them and i think a four car lot would be a lot more viable than a six yes we've all grown up with two car garages with two spaces in front of them what we're talking now is six parking space parking lots behind the homes in our neighborhoods doesn't really work so well thank you any i but this would be to mr circle and i just want to know if your client has more property in the area he does he own he owns a number of homes in the area there's three homes in particular right now where they have the situation where they're they have more students than six living in the place lawfully ok so this this issue would affect those three homes he but i like to make motion support i like to move that we adopt the recommendation of planning commission of the proposed tax methods to section thirty nine dash to eight four of the zoning ordinance support moved by bridge supported by land any more discussion point yet i think we just very simplistically here students and cars the students are still going to be whatever the number is if it's ten or whatever so we're really talking about cars are x number of cars that significantly different if you're not reducing the number of clientele i have neighbors next door that have a significant number of cars on both sides of those cards suddenly disappeared like neighbors are still going to be there if they're good neighbors or bad neighbors or whatever happened to great neighbors so if you're having a problem with your neighbors those problems are still going to be there if you're not having a problem that's great but it's not the car it's not the cars it's not going to make a difference brian right to me the three individuals that shared that are some of the few left in the neighborhood  are kind of what we talked about when we looked at earlier tonight a different street where less than forty percent of the homes were homestead and we had concerns about how that happened what was one of the driving factors and how do we prevent that from time sprawling out and i heard you so to me that they're the few that have stayed in those and in these neighborhoods and i want to support him i think also the planning commission delved into that a lot of the technical components of this and understanding that it was a difficult decision they presented this to us and to me i want to support that so  that's where i'm at but all three of you thank you for sharing and you're definitely h other discussion or just briefly there's another if we ever get to it there's another item on our agenda later on that talks about some neighborhood property and part of that discussion also involves the potential for creating public space and we'll see what that discussion comes to but  i think it's important that to remember that you know even though this is very close to hope college and that's a sort of a unique living situation there one of the things that we keep talking about is how we want to make our particularly of the neighborhoods closer to the core of the city strong and vibrant and  my vote will be we've all reflection of that and i don't know if there's a significant message in the fact that the two young ladies are standing here earlier talking about the renewal of max milage you know maybe if you can't park your car are staying in the neighborhood and making it strong understanding that you know there's a place for for every sort of situation with their there needs to be here rentals as well but  important that we look out for the residents long term residents of these neighborhoods and consider their situations as well that's all i can understand the frustration with watching the remodelling of that building i just buy that after the last time we had a conversation about this property it does not reflect the character of the neighborhood i didn't realize that there had been a previous plan for three buildings that would have melted in much more recently and i mourn the loss with you i can understand why this and it's to a pain you already have every time you go by it or see it because you live there and we do really appreciate the difference a you make in your neighborhood the way that you communicate has patel eddie howland style and mentor kids that need an older person to look up to and that give beyond themselves and sacrifice for no reason other than to care for somebody else has a huge message and we really value that thank you thank you for coming tonight and not giving up hope on your neighborhood could we have a roll call please between lincoln avenue and fair banks avenue i'm all these properties are owned by college right now and they're requesting that they be rezoned from the our district to the educational district hope college is indicated they do have a demand for additional student housing they intend to be coming to the planning commission and within the next probably thirty to sixty  days with applications for us like plan reviews to have a some additional a student housing placed on some of these properties they've indicated they're going to be building on starting on the west side of the properties and i believe they're probably going to go about half of the way or so forth with properties with with the phase one development but that that is information in a review process that will be going forward with the planning because once we rezoned the work we're kind of stuck at that yeah i mean you're granting the ability for for whole college really to do any kind of use that's allowed in that zone district and you know  that's that could be student housing it could be classrooms it could be you know the broader range of things that are allowed in the district so yeah  well i guess my concern is that we these two are to me kind of tied together and i took about this a month or so ago we just heard from dave years that we're really concerned about density and  we agreed that they have a valid concern now we're going to allow hope college to take eighteen properties they've torn down all of the houses except i think maybe one perhaps to allow them to put in additional student housing who knows how many and to put in parking lots that will accommodate a huge number of vehicles so in the one hand we're trying to protect one here and we're saying no this is not a good thing but you could say ok if you do it over here i just think that we need to know what hope is planning here and have some kind of control over it they have their master plan we have our master plan and if we're in a perfect really protect those neighborhoods this is the time to do it time because once we kind of give that away then we're and i are stance on our job to review the site proposal and the commissions that are responsible than the groups but i guess that's why i'm asking just as a point of process is it prudent our part to understand what actually would be going there before we said yes you can put whatever you want there i don't know if there's going to be a representative from boko speaking here tonight or not but  you know that they have elected to not come to do a resulting in sight plan hand in hand you know many many times the applicants do do that so even though the planning commission technically approves the site plan you all get a and tension you know you can certainly ask to see plans that they have i mean if there is a i guess i'm suggesting if there's a huge concern to the point that you're going to say well you don't want to move forward with this you can always just say well hope show us what you're intending to do we at least want to see it before we do this and i don't know if you're to that point or not but that it might be rest haven situation there on third history in college where the site plan was brought to us or was done and we today changed from an r t n or r one to a p r d so it has been done and we just did that very thing tonight do we know or no yes now there is a particular thing with our planned zone districts and that's our peer district and the pierre de districts those both require that a plan a company's well i should say blanket larry cars typically we require a development plan or site plan to come in with the re that's that's the nature of having a planned zone district is is the planning commission in city council actually i mean you get to see the plan before you vote on the district they don't they're not required by law to submit a site plan along with that so i think that's that's where we're at right now  commission level and we didn't have to really deal with it my question i guess in terms of procedure i mean this goes to ron if there's enough question on the part of counsel here would it a following along dave's line there i'm i'm seeing you know i will save my comments for later of these are questions i see we have three are we have three potential outcomes tonight one a firm to deny or three to go back with director of the table this with direction to planning commission and staff to come up with some answers for us am i correct in that that's correct you can do any of those three options  does anyone else have something to say before mike shares his wonderful motion with us should guess it's up to you mr to theory i would like to make a motion in that we table this indefinitely to send back a request to planning commission for two points first of all to present to us or come up with a plan very similar to what we did with the medical mile what i'm going to call the miracle mile by the hospital and having a buffer zone and and have a plan for that buffer zone this neighborhood needs second of all and maybe secondarily to that then request of the applicant to come with a site plan before that goes i think it's far more important to come up with the the buffer plan primarily what the plans are long term for this whole surrounding area if you want specifics from eleventh street to the south the sixteenth very banks to the west and columbia to the east michigan that we knew that right along michigan with there was going to be some commercial development so and so forth there was going to be a softer buffer half a block and before it got  off the top my head was pine i believe it was that that was the main core door down that and i see the same thing happening here we've got the hard edge mark alluded to it a couple of weeks ago  u got to the beginning of the soft edge the mid block the north the the north side it all street ok and as you can see by the blue here we're starting to go east off the lincoln avenue we're starting to creep down sixt street i mean it it's it's closing in blue is bigger blue or purple whatever the color is is becoming more predominant and we're not doing anything to help stave that off we need to save the neighborhoods we need to help protect the neighborhoods that was the reason for my affirmative vote earlier you know that's that's why i voted the affirmative there i totally fully and honestly believe in that we need to come up with a plan  very similar to what we had i think joel was probably going to help with that but i don't like that plan we followed it pretty well it's worked pretty well for preserving the neighborhoods on that court or we need something like that here thanks mike that helps and just for the record and clerk if you can notice that colors pa i think what we don't think is this going to add i think what we can do additionally is for next time or when this comes back to your attention we can share with you the draft land use plan map that the planning commission is deliberating on right now we can talk about that in the precession a little bit we're at least that group is thinking we're the edges should go in this area that might that might help you up to so the master plan that is coming to planning commission does have these properties as part of the district it does yes and help colleges already person purchase the property and taken down the homeless pretty much they own all eighteen of those properties yes and to the best of our knowledge they have plans for what they are going to construct they're working out plans as we speak so they probably have a construction schedule for this summer the best i understand yes day they intend to come in they want to start construction i believe the latter part of the summer what they're intending to hopefully bring to the planning commission and maybe that will provide you with enough information in guarantees that you know what they're showing is what you like to see and  if not they might have to make some adjustments so say you have not seen any kind of site plan yet i've seen draft plans they have come in and if met with staff myself dan  have seen plans that they're working on it's their intention like i say to make application to the planning commission probably within the next thirty days for sure is they're intending to build one more kind of infill host on twelfth street that currently has ease only ok so they saw they have to come to planning commission for that but will be looking to build one there and then they're they're intending to build i believe it was three or four student housing homes in this area right in here they intend to be smaller in scale then the first phase put the village here they're not going to be as is larger in scale as those buildings and they will be smaller and height smaller in footprint  they definitely want to provide a type of housing that is going to address some of the concerns they've been hearing on the twelve street folks that there's not a big looming building that's kind of looking over into these folks backyards here and so i mean they they realize that they they need to scale the buildings to the appropriateness of the neighborhood they're also looking to have some up parking lots in here to to accommodate the students that are going to be living there as well as providing some overflow parking for a divorce right across the street so we wait i'm sorry what yes they want to use that for device overflow i believe that was part of the situation too they wanted to be able to provide some additional parking it would be so  tonight i'm surprised that there isn't somebody here it was shared with them that this was a psychic reading  more information you know i'm i'm going to be i want to you know i love that place just so i get ryan medicare point of order when a table in motion is on the table you can have discussion up into the point of enforcing what's going on not opinion and we're starting to delve into that we have the questions you're questioning so what and so forth has been supporting the reason to go into urge to have the vote on table and we cannot discuss anything further beyond that and i will show you the robert's rules if you  basically sure what do they intend to do in the we're going to be providing you with the draft master plan for this area and i believe mike you get something else too that i did not get do white men no extra just compounds yes birds yes yes birch yes then yes madam  yes motion passes seven yes one no thank you we are now down to that amendment text amendment change for alcohol and had alcohol permitted in them in relation to special events the three removed were a small number and prospect park was also and that's was added after city center parking lots to make no mistake includes those north and south of eighth street so those are the amendments made and approved an eight one vote last time the ordinance was adjusted to reflect those changes and is now before you again for your consideration and public  does anyone have any comments about this that we have talked about a bit but there's no comments is there motion you  said you would have anything they'd like to say about this in the audience i have been a strong opponent of alcohol in public property i will not change my stance tonight i had a little foretelling when this first came about and they said why don't we just open every park because it's eventually we're going to be well we're well on our way i don't think the city of holland should be in the alcohol slinging arena if we're kidding ourselves if this is an economic boom for the city the down falls far far far away any economic income that could be conceived that could be seen on this i will vietnam elian oppose this tonight and always in the future thank you thank you mike anyone else when last time i was able to get at least three parks pulled off and i know there's a lot of interest in this but i think i look at sports and i look at the the time but i think it's a mistake and don't think it's the right direction for us to go we have we used to have churches on corners and banks and we seems like we have many breweries on every park a lot i always see kids running around there i always see family events there and that's what i see a car park there's a lot of family activity there so i guess that is a nonprofit housed in chicago that's been working with the parks and recreation department to locate three successive saturday event involving jazz and they've been working with hope college faculty they initially have and they wanted to serve wine they were initially focused on when on the waterfront then they wanted to be closer to campus and thought maybe centennial park is the place we s that was not the place and in fact didn't recommend centennial park as a place for alcohol they have sense of thought about car park as being their location so i think september ninth sixteenth the twenty fourth it's not that it's not determinative for your action don't get me wrong but i did want you to know that he called yesterday to see the status of how that was percolating and he said you don't have a place yet and  will let him know tomorrow so i can recall that music faculty at a college you mentioned some of you probably know those names i don't have those notes with me but he has been adhered to or three times walked the sides we've there's but it wouldn't preclude them from being able to have an event there would just force them to come here first corrected what was part of what we were talking about here was that it doesn't need to come here every time that staff could authorize it without needing to come here and then my understanding that correctly now you're here right on target that the language in this paragraph a one here would be the locations where staff can approve with a manager can approve a permit for serving beer and wine there so they could come back with a request for a specific event at park or another location when this is exactly what we were trying to get away from if you remember the civil war muster people were sitting in the audience as we've got this plan to do this and it's worked everyplace else but he said ok you get to play in the same thing happened at that urban park the people said we got a ball team they're going to come here we've got it all planned we need your we're ok on this this is a repetitive kind of thing is the word it's we're trying to get away from it's just like the six car thing we're trying to get an ordinance that's pretty much of a number all of there might be some special cases and all due respect to ryan and working with the jazz group and who doesn't like jazz but i think quincy has brought up something that's a legitimate family thing who can remember going to family picnics reunions and and i was a kid rolling down the hill doing a lot of role is a great place for kids to be so we've got to make these decisions and then stick to them rather than an isolated all the time all over the place systems it's incredible can't believe we're doing this right you know ok tad you know just i want to clarify when are you suggesting then that maybe this this clause number three not be part guess i just wanted to be clear as to the possibility if you have something right well it occurred to me that the area in question is probably near the bandsh and i know the by law there needs to be fencing so i'm not sure if it's in spirit with council member birds not amendment whether only the bachelor it would be permitted with in college park david can try to out please you know i would do respect to brother wayne's concerns we do look for consistency but i think the structure that we have here where we do have the opportunity that section three whatever he is allows us to to look at the oddities of peculiar situations that we don't forsee that we know are out there and we're going to deal with it some way but we just don't know what they are what they look like  we can say yes or no i was here for starting about removing certain parts from the list current park was one of the ones that i initially had asked to be taken off  could lend itself to a different events of different personality so i'm pretty comfortable with the way that our structure is right now i would vote to remove it from the that's all mike now i asked why we're wasting our time and you can ask him if he's made a suggestion to pull it off but we're going to pull it off with exception be considering correct me if i'm wrong to still be considered for a possible use but it doesn't automatically go to administrative decision it comes to this body for a decision an appeal of sorts for use i'm going to refer do to goldsman bird but i heard him say take it off ice i'm sorry i got to be black and white on this one ok well then i will ask the attorney for a clarification reality the way to stay in the motion was to remove counterpart from subsection waters at paragraph one of the proposed ordinance that would just eliminate it from the list of properties where where the city manager could issue a permit without coming to council for beer and wine it would still leave the subsection three there which says any other properties and this would then fall within the other properties ok ok yeah up to this point any state park that was taken off always went to the list that should there be a specific situation it can come back to council for review and we could say yes or no  now we have an amended ordinance amended motion that quincy presented that takes cowen park off the list of possible places that the city manager has the purview to schedule alcohol related events with his and his limit of twenty four per year right so we can go with that vote and then if somebody wants to go to the level of there is a whole list that ironclad list that we can never ever bring to council to consider a particular event with to the list of properties taking collin park off the list and that could you call the roll for that please yes yes yes i need ron's help on language that would in essence remove then the four parks from a council review process haven't tabulated dollar possible public places but if there's a public place that listed in the parks you just mentioned and a one that could come to council but for the four parks we pulled out of a  to state that no events allowing the sale possession and consumption of beer and wine may be allowed for column part prospect park and rock art and i can remember the fourth one small small in the park tides motion support quincey supports that move by women supported by a parent could we have a well calm for that and i or do we need more discussion now are we are we done or do we need no no more we have to make one more and that's for you ok i believe that leaves us with a motion on the floor  yes yes white man yes motion passes seven yes one no thank you so we have the sustainability committee letter of support i read that under concern ok i didn't it there ok thank you except as information and we are accepting it ok now we're on to the i don't we that was requested to be pulled off the agenda so sorry for your long even think  we're on to the planning commission i don't for the proposed rezoning of portions of west eleventh street marker you back on thank you so much ok the planning commission has in front of you tonight a proposed first reading for the proposed a rezoning of several properties that are located well actually there are portions of two properties located at one fifty six west eleventh street and two fifty four maple avenue these properties are commonly known as the washington school district to the p r t planned residential development district so here again with this request you're going to see the rezoning request and there is a site plan that comes along with this one because it is a planned  zoning district so let me advance to the site plan here have a few details of this so there's a few portions of the property that are located here that are not subject to rezoning because they don't need to be because they can be developed under the current ordinance requirements and that's these two lots that are shown up here on tenth street or just orient you again tenth street would be a pier this is maple avenue along the west side and the eleventh street called the sec is right here so these two lots there shown on the plan are not actually a part of the and they're not part of the development plan but they're shown here on the plan on the on the same and there is also a lot down here a large double lot of levon street that will be a single family home site this is not a part of the rezoning in the development plan either so we're looking at the the main school site here along with a proposed public green space slash park in the area right north of the school of the old school and then we're looking at a four homesites four of them on right here in the three of them on tenth street those are all part of the summary of that for you and what the applicant is that is intending to do if the reasoning is successful in the development plan has been approved by the planning commission so but that approval is conditioned on your rezoning so what the developer would intend to do is knock off the both the eastern third of the school building that was a gym facility that was added on in the one nine hundred eighty s to the school building and i guess i should say also another layer of detail to this is that a portion of this whole site is located in the historic district i'm sure  you're aware of reading a lot of that in the media over the past couple months of the goings on of that so everything that's going to occur here is portions of it are in the historic district and will need seo ways some of the c e o ways have been approved for the school building here there are some final details that need to be ironed out in regards to a couple of proposed garage structures that would accommodate the housing that's looking to go on the school here ok so what is part of the proposal then the developer would be looking to renovate the school building minus the gym into eighteen  condominium units and k and then have the the garages to go along with it and some surface parking to go along with that the parking would be a believe the ratio was a two and a half parking spaces per dwelling unit so other components then as a as i've noted a little bit we have seven lots here these are going to be single family lots and those would be basically developed in accordance with the underlying r t r and district so actually i mean while we're rezoning the property the planning commission is  is basically said that the design specifics for those seven lots should basically coincide with the t r n district so and so that's what they're proposing there will be a private alley that would be service seen the seven lots here these four lots here as you can see they have no street frontage well one of the lots has frontage on maple avenue but they would be getting association the three lots to the north here a believe would be accessed off from this alley also however they do have frontage on tenth street so depending on how the developer wants to work his requirements they could potentially get a driveway often street so so that's pretty much all straightforward with that the other big component of this is the proposal for a centralized kind of open green space and the planning commission is recommending to city council obviously don't they don't have the power of the purse you all do but the planning commission is recommending that that park space be a publicly owned park and so they are recommending that city council work and i understand there's a there's a neighborhood group here in fact there might be somebody who wants to speak in a few moments to this but there's a neighborhood group working on a potential design for this park should become public  and i believe that there are some fund raising going on with that also and this may lead to a larger kind of deliberation with this group in regards to trying to convince council that it's in your best interest to to buy the property or to accept it should it be given to you as a new public park so the so the design has not been finalized with this in the way the planning commission has approved some of the conditions on the development plan is that a final design would have to be forthcoming in that they would require the site plan review procedure in the future and then there's a bunch of other smaller details that i'm not going to go into unless you want to hear them so that really is kind of it in a nutshell any questions at all mike concerning the proposed park is the parks and rex to your knowledge or the city managers  no i don't believe that the parks and rec commission has a deliberated on that at all so hearken back direction director knows about it can change he has not seen anything we've talked about the need to continue to snow plow through there in any event the sidewalk any canyon is on the planning commission so he did vote in in affirmative this request to you all i don't know you know if you can read much into that more than i mean there really is no specifics in regards to the artist simply out of respect for the commission any of their questions yes yet to questions you can you give us the size of that green spot what would be the dimensions and secondly do you have a ballpark figure as to the cost of purchasing them or eighty feet with or so give or take and probably about two hundred feet in with these are about fifty foot lots here so approximately two hundred by seven at least a first for a precedent in my time on the council of not heard that accompany a recommendation before specifically the the idea that i mean course they recommend green space all the time as to whether the city owns it or not there there was discussion you know that the school has been here for over one hundred years i believe and so there always has been a public aspect  the to the entire site there's been public open space albeit it has it's not own it wasn't on municipal a but it was public play gold and it was it was green space and it was kind of a defacto neighborhood park so the planning commission i mean recognize that there are a lot you know they received a lot of you know they they didn't receive any public input at the public hearing but certainly through the discussions the ongoing discussions that were with the historic district and just feedback that staff had received we realized that there was a vast interest by the neighborhood in wanting to retain a park here and their preference is that it be a publicly owned park you know certainly it privately owned  park could work also but as you know private parks if you know live military issues meet potentially come into play and if something happens and suddenly a private park could become really that private park that's not for use of the general public so you know the thought was really that there's always historically been a public that has been space here and that really ought kara would you be willing to come up and talk a little bit thank you mayor de boer and council we want to share with you i thank you for this opportunity to address you tonight and share with you the growing neighborhood excitement over developing washington school of green and like to draw your attention in your community and neighborhood services section of the materials you've received to a number nothing and the staff recommendation for a public green space this has been school playground since the school was built over ninety years ago and that has been enjoyed by the neighborhood in many many ways it has always been available for neighborhood use i know some of you may say they're your neighborhood since you've got column park over here you've got centennial park over here so why are you whining about more but think about it our space in the middle of our neighborhood is more intimate space in order for young moms with strollers and toddlers by the hand crossing over to call in park is a real challenge and there's nothing in call in park for particularly small children and of course we all know was intending on park is a jewel of this city it is not an activity park and so we're looking to develop washington school green to serve the neighborhood and to beautifying and provide additional function for the city the neighborhood has come together we are working with bill johnson who has produced a wonderful concept that we'll be sharing with you before too awfully long and this concept is professional it's beautiful and it's practical it will provide open green space for play a gathering space for debut hood activity and also a young children's play area the neighborhood has met once on a very short notice and we had over forty people present to brainstorm ideas and all of this to feed bill johnson's process and that was a wonderful occasion and just as soon as we get a little bit further in this process we'll be having another neighborhood meeting to finalize plans and to increase by end of hand we're really excited about what's going to happen we'll be working on fundraising and we're already working with the community foundation and we believe that everyone coming together will make this a reality we hope our steering committee to talk with each one of you council people individually so you understand what we're trying to do and so we can respond to the questions that you will certainly have so thank you very much for your consideration and we look forward to more conversation thank you carol we did neck at a price for the property civic center we've been talking about the power plant we've been talking about neighborhoods by hope college to piers the neighborhoods are significant and important and so you know perhaps you know that money could be thought  i don't want to be community that has done that actually that did come up when the civic center was proposed to be a park and we heard very clearly there are too many parks ok well i stand corrected but most people don't think love to learn more about what's going on and some of the plans here i think one of the things that we just music council to keep in mind is you know you've got a number of other locations in the city where we have similar things potentially going on and we just need to have kind of understanding of any precedent or kind of total scope so out in my mind i think about where lakeview school used to be the number residence used that property space is a a kind of impromptu dog park it seemed a perfect fit and our public schools the owners and of having to put a fence around it to live below the reasons why not but the neighbors coming said hey we want to put a park there and not all against it but just kind of saying hey what understanding is part of this kind of the scope of it what else can come from it and just being having some of that foresight to think about where are there other opportunities and then i think another thing that's a reality is is to your point when no i don't think embracing there's other than the bryansk you know clear out of a single purpose point but but there has been a number of comments from individuals about and certainly parks the quality of we've we've let things go a little bit and that's one of the things i shared a few of the last business meeting the excitement around some of the redevelopment rosa parks with private public partnership with new equipment and so just just thinking about it you know hey as much as we're doing this how does it fit within you know the total park's plan and just understand the total scope so not at all against it just advocating for more information and understanding of kind of how it fits within our total parks kind of vision and planning so yeah that this project has come to the point where has it's been a bumpy road i know but i'm grateful for all concerned for all the efforts that have gone into this i think it's a great project that won and so this neighborhood as well as the city  tremendously basic thing i want to speak to his though the matter of the green space and i know that we have much discussion yet to to do about that and there's a lot of effort that's going to go into it but i'm very i just want to say i'm very supportive of the idea having a publicly owned space there not just in terms of what it would do for it and seeing the the immediately adjacent properties i mean who wouldn't want to have a public park in their front yard that would have to be a great thing but in terms of the neighborhood itself it would be a great enhanced many of the things our recall the sort of elements that go into making a strong and viable neighborhood of what the desire to get to the point where the housing values of  most neighborhoods i in our city have a park at least in relative proximity to where most people live releaser is a place where people can lay claim to this is reminded a few minutes ago when we were talking about public versus private ownership of spaces the vote for us was being built and we were speaking with them about public access along the water which was a very important thing to us at that time and continues to be lower its property obviously being privately held was a much that we knew about but we sort of had an understanding with the owners that yeah will law allow public access  on the perimeter of a property there and that wasn't too long after the they opened for business and suddenly gates appeared him on certain occasions public access so that water was blocked i guess so i hope we have the point where we can provide that where it's no great financial burden to any given entity that the owners of the property would walk away happy and that it will be up eventually agree great project for this neighborhood in the city and that's all thanks mike yes i look forward to having some more discussions on this so i think it's of the potential for a public private partnership is fantastic mr dupree i hope i push it your willingness to work with them ladies your enthusiasm and out of respect for mr peters who unfortunately beyond for circumstances beyond his control could not be here tonight being a neighbor in also represented in that area i think we owe it to him to have some any more comments when did this project first start being talked about mark yeah yes this yeah this has been a very long process and it has tried the hard stuff money and it's working through how  but it has been amazing that you know people keep coming back and keep meeting and keep talking and it is a real testament to very deep value in highland  the idea of public private partnerships and business that cares about neighborhoods you don't find that everywhere you don't find patient developers  compromising people that are willing to listen and change plans and keep thinking and listening and working and neighborhoods they keep  accepting and being creative and and then people that really don't may not live exactly there are that are trying to work to come up with a solution to help the neighborhood and all those layers are very inspiring there are a lot of places where things could've gotten much worse and i you have my utmost in this hall whole journey and i do think that this product would be a beautiful addition to holland and it offers wonderful variety and to have  washington school redone in a way that honors its history awesome and the green in front of it beautiful i do think as brian len pointed out that the president put on a park in when neighborhoods request it without the neighborhood being financially involved could be a little bit of a dangerous direction for us as a council so i really appreciate your willingness to work together to come up with fundraising and and be able to come back to us with a figure of what that could be because it's not just buying the be developed so that kind of doubles things so thank you very much for this whole process thank you for hanging around for this whole meeting that went a bit longer than ok we are and now to the consideration of an amendment for the gate wade signs and this is it joel dies area se western staff that we receive guidance from city council in regards to the final design of the gateway signs that will be placing throughout the city will be a total of four of them that will be constructed by a local company out of grand rapids and it started various locations on the screen in front of you are three options a b and c and then now there's a screen for a fourth option this was discussed at your study session and votes the concern i have with that is that i have and i think it was discussed in study sessions wellcome which is spelled in a foreign way is a bit low to the ground in could potentially be covered by some form of greenery which is most likely to appear in some of these areas of their lives placed i'm not sure who thrilled with all of the text on there ok so are you placing a motion for design and i would move we approve design do we have a second for that i support quincy seconds that do we need along i actually like b as well however in the spirit of what we're trying to get done here i've spent at least thirty more minutes on this than i thought i would probably coming up on a couple hours so i will be just whiteman yes  madam mayor yes motion passes thank you and that there is a journey thank you very much all right we are going on to gifts let us find out how many generous people are out there once again and the city managers office is pleased to report the following gives parks and recreation for the digraph nature center projects receive one hundred dollars donation from gerald five fifty dollars from philip and mar n fifty from the been france and family parks and recreation selker a scholarship received thirteen dollars from the recreation office as an anonymous donation in twenty five from the website anonymous donation parks and recreation howling in bloom participation in america in bloom competition received one thousand dollars from a college it is recommended that these donations be accepted with appreciation and an expression of gratitude be for support them it's it's great to live in allen michigan we have communications from our city manager oh i'm so sorry we better except that how could we all those in favor  right oppose same sign they would be unanimous and i'm to communications for my city manager brian patton thank you three items for evenings the council spent looking at the budget has resulted in a powerpoint that was updated as we went it's now been updated based on what the last discussion about the to be determined items resulted in and that is on the website it's on dropbox anyone in the number of members of the public can look at it and escapes me which about the staffing study and paying for that and that the conclusion i received very shortly thereafter was the funds from the sale since that was mentioned tonight in the context of the  school property i wanted to point out to you that that has not had the reflection of the entire council but that's what that subgroup came up with a second item i went to the minority business lunch today and the city of holland got a shout out by one of the winners pastor willie watt and escape ministries was very emotionally honored for the work they've done in the community with at risk youth and all kinds of educational initiatives  that have helped people succeed in their lives and it was rewarding to have them actually share some of that credit with the city of all and i wanted to share that with you last next wednesday as a study session that's scheduled there are two items only for that study session right now one is the bike plan and the other is if the city council would like to review the first reading of the washington school ordinance that we just talked about which is sometimes the case prior to second creating so i'll be conferring with there to bore there might be other items that emerge i don't know about yet as to how to handle that study session and whether perhaps whether it would be necessary but i will just put that out there and  solidify things a little bit more since we're looking for the fundraising to be done here just a suggestion i think we talked about having a subcommittee work on something to bring back and there was discussion times eight or nine is there's just so many variables tad question if i may when you refer to the washer are you talking about the zoning change right sometimes that's looked at again in the in between now and second reading i  just i too will be traveling next week for business so i will not be here and i will tell you i was significant interest in the policy discussion around specifically the green space so if that's what you're referencing i would ask that we table that until a future study session when i can be present i know you don't always work around each other but knowing that the mayor will be gone as well i would i would make that request and i'll just say that the the rezoning the pick which is a long way from all the solutions and conclusions that you just referenced but that will be on the may fourth that second reading of the recent are there so i can ask questions via email ok those could be our most robust city manager comments we've had yet with all the discussion ok thank you communications from the mayor we have a person jenny wall who is appointed to the police community relations board she will be having a one year term to expire april twenty twenty seventeen we really appreciate her willingness to be a part of the community policing effort we have here in holland that's awesome also this saturday there's going to be an event at the museum in partnership with the board of public works for celebrating earth day at the museum and they'll have crafts that go around the earth day and science experiments they'll be a nature scavenger  and also wallet hub probably not something that we've mentioned very often but that is an organization that chose holland michigan as the best small town to start a business and i think brian you had some some connections with that you talked with them right so everyone knows that my full time job was as a public relations professional and heavily involved in the startup community happens to be someone who has bought or has started and sold several large but enterprises in holland logistics and others and it turned out great it was a very nice piece i think representative of what we want to grow here we want small businesses to grow very very large and for that to improve our economy as has happened with every very large business that employs many of our residents today it was interesting detroit radio station called to talk with me about it and she said really i thought how and was just a tourist town like oh no no come on down and when people come as tourists they often want to stay and having that message out there that holland is the best small town with which to start a small business is is just one of the highest and best messages we can have for why you wan come here to raise your family in and be a part of the community so we're very excited about that recognition and thank you brian for using your career expertise to help the city in such a great way any comments from other council members mike madam mayor i'm assuming you were looking for a motion when you put the new york jenny wall up there for the police community relations i will make that in the form of a motion to accept members yes brian very quickly i had a great opportunity this past friday evening to do a ride along with our police department in this part of just my education in the role of the council here and  it was an eye opening experience it was both educational in terms of tactical experience answer a number of diverse phone calls that had come in to the officers but also just education was interaction with our residents and the people live in the city in some instances it's positive very positive in some instances it was not so positive but one of the things that i was very proud of when i pulled into the driveway on saturday morning was how our officers handled themselves with respect and dignity and did a first class job on every phone call we received throughout the night i said some were positive and some were negative and so just encouragement to those people those individuals those officers and our entire police force to continue the work they're doing and also just to encourage colleagues here as well no number of you ride along often than others you have in the past but it was it was it was something i couldn't have done without doing it it's it's beyond just intellectual piece it's experiencing going from one phone call to the  other within a short period of time throughout the city and just seen everything real time so you know protecting and serving us a very great any other comments i guess there's one less thing we'd have to do than to have emotion