applies to a mad person now that is very important and now be a good time to insert it it has to do with our status if you as a doctor position dentist i'm sorry the  veterinarian officers and list of personnel don't qualify for this but if you are in this kind of situation and are captured you are protected by a status is known as retained status r e t a i n e d and what this means is very important two things one you are allowed to continue to practice medicine you are supposed to be allowed to continue to perform the mission for which you were trained and that is helping people who are sick and wounded and the second thing is that as soon as your services are no longer required then you are supposed to be released back to friendly forces cancer very important so the exception here is that because of this retained status you are not allowed to effect an escape attempt because of the fact that you are allowed to treat patients now the question always comes up what happens if i'm not being treated as a p o w ok there was one physician in north and during the vietnam war spent five years in a north the enemy's p o w camp he was treated as a p o w he was not allowed to treat patients obviously the geneva convention was not being followed you know we could get into this we could discuss that for hours couldn't we you know what what kind of status you find yourself in if the enemy is treating you as a p o w then your actions might be looked on a little bit differently we still have the requirement here as a med personnel to act as retain persons but this is something that is going to be an individual type thing if you ever find yourself in that situation and i basically the last part i will accept new the parole no special favors from the enemy means that we are not allowed to accept anything favor wise that would give us a better position than our comrades who find themselves in the same situation this happened a great deal in north korean p o w cambs unfortunately because of the fact that people did not have the self discipline to act properly the north koreans were able by psychological indoctrination to induce them to do things for them to act as plants within squads to give information to the enemy and this is one of the reasons why says attempts were not possible because there was a planned a nice little group of men these things happen unfortunately and it's because of the lack of training and proper discipline that came about any questions a good question major mcguire's question was by carrying a weapon and being involved in defense of maneuvers do you give up this right here under the geneva convention as long as you are involved in defensive measures with you there and the defensive weapons and sixteen rifles and forty five's are classified as defensive weapons trying to protect yourself or your patient or your medical treatment facility if you're captured while a defensive position you are still retained personnel and you fall under that geneva convention article there if as i mentioned earlier you effect a break out and in an authentic situation and get captured after that then you are not after you while in a retain status your situation you still wear the red cross yes of course the tactical commander a lot of times it depends on the situation whereby under the geneva convention of course we are supposed to display the red cross on all buildings and on personnel who are treating patients so that they can be protected in the geneva  convention the tactical commander he is not supposed to ask you to become involved in that unless of course it's that type of situation where you have to to defend yourself  ourselves that we're going to have these privileges what in fact they probably won't offer are we doing ourselves a disservice i think we would be from the standpoint that people are not trained in line what to expect one of the studies that was done after the korean conflict showed that the main reason that people had so much trouble in handling the situation was because of their ignorance of what to expect in a prisoner of war situation now depending on what kind of conflict we got into and whether the country that we were fighting was a signer of the geneva convention would probably possibly change the situation i feel it is if you know we as a country we honor it ok now the problem is if you're fighting somebody who does not honor it and and  that situation i don't know if i'm getting across what you're asking but it is the best document that we have at the present time that countries have signed as an official act and therefore they are bound legally and morally following that if they don't we get into another area here of international relations that i am not prepared to comment on standpoint we have to have laws that we commit ourselves to both in peacetime and wartime or we turn into an uncivilized society and that's about all i can comment on that right now ok let's move along article fo a long one if you just go ahead and read that quickly there can you see a point here that we would consider an exception and this goes back to our retained status now goes back to our retained says we are not officially p command situation good in the army medical department the only corps that is authorized to accept command of other p o w s is the medical service cor because we are not from that standpoint it's kind of a dual type thing under the geneva convention we still qualify as retain persons because of our admin training to administrate over a medical treatment facility but the same time we're the only branch therefore that can command and take charge of other p o w s those kind of a dual to haddad type thing but that is the exception so you as a doctor or whatever you find yourself in the situation retain status the only thing you are responsible for is whatever medical treatment facility you would have in a p o w camp regardless of rank if you have a full colonel medical corps who is there treating patients and the highest ranking officer of another branch other than the army medical department is a captain and that person is in charge this is a ranking regardless here very important point and obviously the other parts of this apply as far as giving them information obeying lawful orders and backing up those people who are in command over you all the question i'm glad you brought that up what happens if you find yourself in a situation where the enemy wants you to treat their sick and wounded also possibly even before you're allowed to treat your own what do you do what if they don't let you treat yours before they treat before you treat the if a person an enemy is sick or wounded to the point that he is not capable of performing his mission he is no longer a combat he at that point for you who are physicians here and have taken the hippocratic oath what he supposed to do for the person treating this is even been put in writing in some places in the european theater i understand it is in writing that if this situation ever occurs that personnel army medical department personnel will treat both enemy and american personnel the same way here regardless of who they are and so that's a good question i'm glad you brought that up because it happens it can happen and chances are it will happen because for the most part when you get in that kind of situation our medical personnel are trained better than some other countries and so they know we know and know that we can treat their people so i appreciate that question because it does come that they would have so much for a person to do they would not return and that is always a possibility we have to face because realizing there are not that many medical department personnel that far forward that the chances are that great capture that you know would you ever find yourself in an excess position probably not possibly not but it is a possibility anything else on that article five i think is probably the most familiar from the standpoint of the geneva convention articles and it was written into the code of conduct to reiterate our responsibility as far as what information we give the enemy to effect positive identification name rank service number and date of birth ok now just a couple of quick changes on this that have already taken place if i your hand you will cross out the word bound and put required i am bound to give the word has been changed to required and the word only has been stricken so now reads i am required to give name rank service number and date of birth and the exception here is of obviously that if you have a patient or patients there that are in need of more medical care more definitive care than you can give then you have the responsibility to give any information based on the patient's condition to the appropriate camp authorities something is a transfusion and operation  medication that you don't have obviously they need to know about the patient's condition does anyone here read commander booker's book my story thing back to was in one nine hundred sixty eight i believe when the player was captured the north koreans had the vessel they had all the intelligence gathering equipment in the thing very little was able to be destroyed yet the people were continually interrogated over and over and over again what kind of information with trying to get ok verification of what it was used for for one thing what are they used for the most part of the information that they got out of prisoners for it was it for tactical intelligence but was it for propaganda  the information they're trying to get was things like yes i was in charge or a waters yes i am an aggressor type thing we were in the wrong we shouldn't be here things like this not anything having to do with tactical intelligence but rather for propaganda purposes and several years after this a retired naval admiral wrote a book questioning this and there are a lot of thoughts being raised both pro and con reference just how much information should an american serviceman be required or allowed to give the enemy to keep himself from being tortured you know where do you draw the line some people say there's nothing wrong with this that we have a responsibility to give the enemy no information at all because anything you give us leads to possibly more and more and more as you go along and this is where the brainwashing came in on the other end of the spectrum you had the people say listen what is the use of getting american servicemen tortured when all the trying to get is information to use for propaganda for them on radio on television the guy says i did something wrong my country did something wrong and  even been suggested and i'm just giving this out as information on both sides of this continuum here that people say why don't we allow them to say anything that will keep they're from getting tortured as long as the information is not significant and then we as a country will put out to the world that these statements were made under physical or psychological duress the person is not responsible and they have our permission to say anything at the enemy uses for apply that now to a p o w situation ok our third country and the prisoner of war comes out and says oh my country of bombing hospitals or for civilian residences which  talked about now in congress there's a lot of concern over if we get ourselves in another situation to find ourselves in a situation like just how is the american serviceman going to come out he going to come out of it appeared to be a failure in north korea during the korean conflict because people were not  prepared going over a lot of information here real quickly but what i think we need to remember is that there is a code of conduct it does lay down very specific responsibilities and rules for the american servicemen these things were designed to be helpful not to be a hindrance or rather to be a help if we ever find ourselves in a situation where we need it and while we don't memorize this thing verbatim as long as we realize that we have certain responsibilities as soldiers regardless of our branch of service we'll know that the enemy cannot use this type of information against us and that's the important thing i thank you for your time and attention in class is dismissed