among those which was to fund given my druthers sixty nine billion dollars be nice downpayment yes for years and years spending bill maybe a hundred billion dollars for these ready to go projects can you speak to that we are we have been in a serious conversation about about the  of bad news and how to address it as i said it already the decline in revenues into the trust fund thirty states that won't be able to provide their full twenty percent match the stimulus in effect to running its course by the end of may and the need to sustain the jobs and sustain the investment and give states t encouragement they need to continue with longer term projects or they'll start cutting back in may or early june if that if they can't see their way to receiving the full reimbursement from the federal government so mr robey and i have talked about ways in which we could do this and i suppose it's in flux what's been reported that i've read in your column and others is generally in the ballpark of what we're talking about but the specific amount sent from where and can we get the white house on board we get the son of the border there is there some procedural way that we can move a bill that two senators kept hold up those are the issues that we have to deal with if not if we're up to the house we have had this passed already  jobs bill do you think it should be paid for we had we had a proposal that would have done exactly that but raising revenues into the highway trust fund is and isn't put off the table by the white house and the senate leadership so we have an emergency in front of us and just as we funded the war in iraq on an emergency basis is we've funded hurricanes and tornadoes in blizzards and other damage on the an emergency so we have done with the stimulus and i think that the current economic qualifies as a crisis so i have no i have no reservations about funding it through other means then then the gas tax on mr de fazio has a number of revenue raisers that he has thoughtfully work through and i call on him to respond well let me address directly your question and jim's right i sort of task me with trying to think outside the box of the traditional user fees that are assessed through taxation on truck sales and some other equipment and the gas and diesel tax and i'm not going to go into specifics i laid some of those out before there's discussions ongoing and ways and means regarding that if we were to move forward with a secure bill but more immediately to your question know there's every penny of the stimulus was bart and my concern was that some of it i thought was not going to be particularly effective in creating jobs our portion of the bill by the measure we have for jobs created versus the total number of the white house says were saved or created more than twenty five percent of the jobs came with four percent of the spending which is transportation infrastructure that's a pretty good bang for the buck so i think you know i'd be happy to try and find an offset you know i'd be happy to discuss revenues but more directly to your question i would be willing to bond or borrow this because we're talking about projects that are going to serve america for the next hundred years so you're passing a benefit along to future generations you're in hansing our productivity enhancing our productivity means we enhance revenues which means ultimately there will be pay back for these projects but if future generations benefit i can better justify saying well you know part of the taxes are pain today for some money we borrowed in zero nine to build out that and repair this transit system to buy bar at the new cars that obese operating thirty forty years from today or to rebuild the bridges the hundred and sixty thousand bridges on the federal highway system that are in need of either alteration repair or replacement those will be there  for their entire lifetime so i would be willing to go there if we have to but i'm also willing to look at offsets and i'm even willing to look at revenues that would not have a depressive effect on the economy john just mentioned  the other ideas too which is underactive diskette or consideration of jim is we've included a provision for an infrastructure bank in in our transportation bill which which could also provide  or you're facing i believe another expiration of safety lou in about two weeks are you willing to go along another extension and if you are are you willing to meet the senate on a six month extension because mr heartly has gone on the record saying short term extensions of one or two months do none of these members any good you know the is that a loaded question to those not that's fair question and you know very well that we've reported our republican leadership on the committee was to have the bill done by the by this time of year so it's apparent that the other body can't walk and chew gum at the same time it seems they can only do health care and we have to face up to that reality unfortunately it's the lowest common denominator effect in legislation so only what  can get through the senate so we will have to provide an extension of authority of current law but i want to do that within the context of an understanding  of minds with the administration and with the senate and on a longer term bill so that whatever extension we have will include a time frame with in which we would act on  characterize the administration's response so far to your request and how confident are you that there will be a significant chunk of transportation spending in this new jobs bill if not quite sure the first part of the question is respond to to this or to the six year authorization to do this there hasn't been any direct response what what we have received are sort of back door messages from persons in the white house who speak on condition non attribution and so there is some indication they realise the problem president fazio's a better read of it but that at the end of this jobs summit that there be some movement on the part of the white house toward this jobs initiative that we've described of current law the problem is the other body can't deal very very readily with change and we wouldn't want to trouble them with changes current law so  think we have to deal with what's available right here mr peres want to know given if we're gonna be moving on a jobs bill do you have any sense apprehension that that may blunt momentum towards a longer term deal that we've taken care of transportation for a while we can maybe get to that eighteen months ago i think the i think the presence of ash to zero and after the building trades sociate a general contractors the senator gravel institute people all those who are  the supply chain who at the u s chamber of commerce who are strongly supporting a six year long term authorization are argues vigorously for maintaining momentum and sustaining the thrust toward this full authorization nuance where we can ask people to keep doing the same old thing they have been doing for the last forty three years of the department of transportation we're going to transform this department and that's what this legislation does so we need to move ahead with it and know the needs are so great as a success stories of the current stimulus the for the longer term authorization we're dealing with the stimulus the state of good repair projects those and then on the shelf for years transportation departments that wanted to do but didn't have the money to another doing those if we if we can't fully fund for the next two years ago existing programs states can within that context do longer term projects capacity projects that will add lanes and change cloverleaf inter changes to diamond interchanges ice high speed access a negress and and at the same time proceed with these state of good repair projects so we get into a longer term authorization we will have reduced the portfolio of state of good repair projects can focus more on capacity needs relieving congestion locking ports moving goods faster and and and creating conditions in urban areas so the people spend less time in traffic and more time at their jobs and with their  families i wanted to know what you thought about what the recent developments between russia and china on massive infrastructure projects i wanted to know what you thought were the possibilities of the united states joining in this type of approach the reason being that they're actually the chinese are taking a trillion dollars of u s debt of worthless debt actually giving it intrinsic value by investing in such programs that are very long term as you guys were talking like there actually are russia is very much for building the trans siberian rail across the bering strai and i just wanted to know what your guys is what you guys think about this kind of a long term alliance of joining russia china and india in this kind of agreement and these types of long term agreements a the european community into that mix as well look the recession has created a new export commodity for america construction equipment the contractors who've been sidelined by the recession and by the inability of states to match their billable funds to build bigger projects has meant that not only in the private in the public sector as well they must balder equipment they're selling it on the international market to china and india and some to russia china in their stimulus has has committed nine and a half percent of gross domestic product to their stimulus initiative india has plans to build a twenty five thousand mile golden triangle  interstate quality freeway system to move people and goods wife usually in china in one thousand nine hundred eighty seven had one hundred hundred sixty eight miles of four lane interstate quality freeway today they have thirteen thousand miles in less than ten years they'll have fifty two thousand miles of six lane access controlled divided highway interstate the freeway they already have a twenty five hundred mile rail connection to in beijing and los ought to bet the last five hundred miles of which are at fourteen thousand feet altitude with oxygen pressurized railcars china has modernized thirty five of its airports extending the runways to twelve thousand five hundred feet have added six new airports and are now underway one hundred billion dollar investment in internal regional airports in the in in the interior of china the european community has a twenty year one point four trillion dollar infrastructure investment program that includes building a two thousand mile canal across the high out of europe to link to the north sea in the black sea we had override a presidential veto to pass a water resources development bill part of which is to modernize the locks on the mississippi river haven't updated since one nine hundred thirty those locks are six hundred feet long the barge tolls are twelve hundred feet long it's six hundred twenty hour round trip for barge tolls from iowa to the gulf of mexico to export our soybeans when brazil is twenty five hundred miles closer to markets and  beats as a six day sale advantage over our goods we ought to be doing all of that and that this is ministration isn't doing out of the senate isn't moving on it is a shame and that's where we stand here is what we will do our bill and while we're pleading with the american people to move ahead and do what's right for the future of this country testing one two three testing  good afternoon we apologize for the delay there was a press conference that had to be held and was delayed because of votes i want to welcome all to today's hearing especially today's panel this fourth stimulus tracking here as part of the subcommittees determination to hold itself as accountable as we hold the agencies under our jurisdiction that have received so called stimulus funds to to simultaneously boost the economy and to build and repair facilities in our country by the end of two thousand and ten all of stimulus funds must be obligated to jobs created must be documented and the efficient use of taxpayer dollars to repair and upgrade federal golding's to save energy must be assured today's hearing will address these issues as they intersect with maintaining security and maximizing trade along u s borders the american recovery and reinvestment act two thousand and nine signed into law there were seventeen provided three hundred million dollars for the general services administration to build and retrofit border stations and land ports of entry the largest funding amount at any one time a land port of entry houses the inspection facilities for legal border crossing while a border station houses the border patrol which is responsible for monitoring all border activity between the two official man ports of entry there are one hundred and sixty three border stations across seven thousand miles of border between the us borders and mexico and canada the  recovery act also provided the partner of homeland security customs and border protection for protection with an even larger amount four hundred twenty million dollars for rehabilitation and construction of it before hundred fifty million dollars appropriate to the program to the homeland security department for rehabilitation and construction needs further explanation in as much as these fines are limited to facilities along the u s canada border with seas considerably less action and facilities along the southern border the subcommittee looks forward to reviewing a general accounting office report recently requested by senator byron dorgan of north dakota on the viability of new construction of land ports of entry along the northern border there in mind that the subcommittee's tracking hearings are unique because unlike other phones in the recovery act which are distributed to states through formulas g s a economic development administration and the smithsonian are solely responsible for the ministering funds and meeting the terms themselves of the recovery act the transparency we require for g s a on progress must also be available to taxpayers who should be able to track that progress and jobs in their own jurisdiction today members of congress have indicated an interest in these programs and their own congressional districts indicate it's important the importance of this construction phase for stimulating the economy however on an average  s a reports that two billion dollars in trade takes place in the hundred sixty three borders stations across the southern and northern borders of the u s this level of economic activity a the security mission that makes this construction vital today we welcome all of those who have come forward to testify today and i'd ask the ranking member if he has any opening remarks thank you very much a stations obviously border stations are critical to our country for both security and for trade the free flow of goods and people lawfully crossing borders is crucial to promoting trade and commerce but obviously the same time of these border crossings are critical to the security of our nation so we know that enforcing this balance between trade and security is is a very difficult one with a two dollars two billion dollars in trade moving through the hundred sixty three border crossings each and every single day it's crucial to our economy because of this difficult balance we must ensure that we have the proper infrastructure in place to support this mission and the individuals who are there the stimulus for the recovery act provides t s a with three hundred million for land ports of entry and border stations and g s a has identified eight projects in its spending plan for those funds in addition the stimulus or the recovery act also provided customs and with four hundred twenty million dollars for land ports of entry within a series as the chair on which a woman just mentioned so all of the hearing today is focused on border stations i think it's important to highlight the ongoing concerns generally about the so called was being discussed and debated to try to get more money for infrastructure that we all felt would have been a good use of money and secondly to make sure that once that bill was passed whether you like it or not that there is as much accountability and ministration released updated figures on the recovery dot gov website related to the number of jobs created and saved that figure over six hundred forty thousand jobs was subsequently called into serious question following investigations by a number of news organizations the g a o and members of congress and some of the issues identified and we've all heard of before but include for example jobs that were created or saved and congressional districts that don't exist the number of jobs created in some cases seems inconsistent with the amount of funding provided some funding claimed to have saved jobs actually yet those funds went to other benefits like pay raises not to create or save jobs some jobs were supposedly saved that were never in jeopardy and i could go on and on and on and there have been extensive reports on frankly  scandalous use of some of those funds and some of the reporting of some of those funds you know if those things happen in other countries we don't call that waste we call the corruption we call it a lot of things and because it has been scandalous as the american people knows now despite the clear inaccuracy of these figures they remain on the administration's web site so here we know that they're inaccurate we know they're not true we know that they're false doesn't seem to deter so they're still on the administration's website the national unemployment rate is now over ten percent the unemployment rate in florida is now over eleven percent and some states have unemployment rates from twelve to even over fifteen percent so clearly we know that it hasn't worked particularly when the benchmark was set by the administration when they specifically said virtually and in writing that unemployment if that bill passed would not exceed a percent and that three and a half million jobs would be created in fact we know that after the bill passed we've lost about an additional two and a half million jobs and i mention that because the american people deserve deserve much better at the very least it is they deserve to have an accurate report card of how nearly a trillion dollars of their money is actually being spent is working or not working you know in particular when the web site where all these inaccuracies are on cost eighteen million dollars of stimulus money again if this happened in other countries we have words for it eighteen million dollars for a website of stimulus money meant to stimulate the economy and create jobs a website that we know now is grossly at best you know accurate and we as a representative she insists on accurate information i have stated this before i said that since before the passage of the recovery act that the priorities must be on simelane the economy and create jobs instead of seeing the unemployment rate decrease we have seen an increase and now there are obviously real question as to how many jobs have actually been created by the recovery act of those that have been claimed to be created that now we know is not true is that accurate is outright false and as we examine the specific issue of border stations today there are real questions as to whether the taxpayer in fact is getting  good return on investment while tens of millions dollars are going to small ports of entry with just three to five vehicles a day none of the funds are going to some of the busiest ports like laredo texas that sees nearly six thousand travelers and trucks daily now i understand that there may be some legislative impediments which is again if that's the case just one more reason why the bill frankly has demonstrated to be a fiasco so i hope that we can get answers today and on how many jobs have been created and how these projects were selected i look forward to hearing from the witnesses today i want to thank you all for being here once again and as i said at the beginning on the onset i particular want to thank the  and i certainly accept your your compliments of the two chairs and i should say a word about your criticism of the administration which i have course i understand i do want to make the record clear on on one or two matters that for i go into mr koori i would agree with you that the eight percent then should mark set by the administration was too high i can't understand it may have had a lot to do with the criticize that it was receiving about the cost of the stimulus in the first place and demand that they show that somehow the way they could lick this  great recession as it is now called and with one dose of stimulus despite the fact that many of us guarded that eight hundred or so billion dollars as far too little as specially because we read history we read history and learned that for example that the unemployment rate after president roosevelt had spent a great deal more money than we had  relative real money terms had declined from about twenty five percent to fifteen percent and then by one nine hundred thirty seven they were calling it his recession rather than who is recession and if i may recall history for all of us and none of us were here at the time it took world war two and massive spending to bring the united states out of the great depression and those who believe that you're going to come out of the great recession with something less than substantial government spending need to re read the history of the new deal those books are selling better than ever now i do want to correct for the record something that is raised every time we have a hearing and that is that when a contract is our ward it has almost nothing to do with when jobs come  online and money begins to flow no matter what this committee has done and it could not have done more with shovel ready projects and the rest there are laws and rules that every jurisdiction must abide by so we look forward jobs created as the jobs flow through the pipeline and it is act the end of a job that we can tell how many jobs that have have had been there even the money flows and weekly or two weekly sessions we look at the department of homeland security headquarters for example we say to you with no fear of contradiction that over about seven years they'll be thirty eight thousand jobs was somebody we can stick out a long l they will find that we are tooling up for a massive project and those jobs will not show in numbers for years from now but those acts those though though those numbers are i haven't checked everywhere but up and down and sideways and i think they are reliable if we understand  how to count jobs and above all when to count jobs i do want to say that the job accuracy figures for g s a have been conservative and well documented thus far and  inviting us to appear before you today i will discuss our land port of entry program the lp oweis and the challenges of balancing national security with the free flow of trade and travel having just opened u s facilities at the new international crossing d h s u s customs and border patrol protection excuse me for those projects the national park service owns one port and c b p owns the rest of the ports of entry as the program manager of g southern border initiative to renovate ports of entry in california nerve zone in the late one nine hundred eighty s i can attest the g s a and c b p have a long history of working together to improve the ports to increase traffic flow across the u s border while ensuring the safety of the inspectors who daily mandy's entries into the united states we continue to work closely with c b p to streamline costs and schedules as we develop deliver and maintain l p l he facilities together we have identified for actions that will have a huge impact on speeding up the delivery of alpo p o e s and to ensure that they will continue to meet c b p's mission requirements the first one is that c b p will provide prioritize new construction in modernization projects the second is the g s a will increase the use of design build contracts the third is the g s a in c b p will increase the number of standardized common l p l we components and the force the fourth is the g s a i'm sorry that some blowing in here and i'm finding it difficult to hear you it's not your fault when you speak more into the microphone i will do  that the fourth is the g s a will use indefinite delivery indefinite quantity idea i q contracts for l p o he designed services to further streamline project delivery we are using a consistent approach in l p o e pre design design and acquisition and funding of commonly used services including feasibility studies project design and special services we saw two national contracts one for architecture and engineering firms to conduct border station feasibility studies and the other to write l p o e design services together these approaches to national contracts help reduce delivery times by up to five months g s a and c b p work together on many national and regional levels most collaborate very closely to identify the highest priority projects based on c b p's needs and move forward on those lp oh he's in support of that effort your committee already authorized three c b p's top priorities for two thousand and ten the tornado guadalupe l p o e in texas the calexico west l p o in california and the matter was gale p o in maine the recovery act gave us an unprecedented and exciting opportunity to contribute to our nation's economic recovery the recovery act as ignited three hundred million dollars specifically for lp always under g s a jurisdiction and selecting projects we used to overarching criteria set forth in the legislation the ability of the project to put people back to work quickly and the ability to transform federal buildings into high performance green buildings and we work with c b p to set the priorities for these projects our decisions were made based on the shelf already ness of the projects and the availability of funds that we received through the recovery act as identified in our project plan seven l p s were selected for recovery act funding we are moving forward on these projects notably we recently broke ground on octo over twenty second two thousand  on the modernization of the mare post land port of entry in the gallus arizona this project is primarily funded by the recovery act includes the demolition and reconstruction of all facilities within america's third busiest border crossing the  be built to achieve a lead silver certification it will use electricity electricity generating photovoltaic solar panels solar powered domestic hot water and advanced lighting our goal is to provide up to twenty percent of the facilities energy from solar power produced on site and construction is expected to be completed in two thousand and fourteen the recovery act is also helping us to further our efforts to green our border crossings while we work through the highest priority projects of c b p as part of our regular capital investment program we use the u s green building council as leadership in energy and environmental design lead building ratings system at our projects at callus maine san luis to arizona at both of those facilities both of these projects are planned to achieve a gold certification with a minimum level of lead so over at several other project locations including messina new york and jackman maine are leveraging our recovery act investments and using our building in the tory including as a proving ground for bring a green building technologies materials and operating regimes we are evaluating adopting new ideas and products then analyzing and publicizing our results we are working to become the go to source for data on the environmental and economic payback of new green building systems and procedures based on smart decisions our investment will lead to the transformation of the green economy in addition to the funding we receive directly from the recovery act we are also supporting c p s recovery act initiatives c b p recovery act funds will be used to replace aging lp oweis in four states along the northern border seven projects were awarded in august fourteenth two thousand and nine using g s a id a q contract design for these projects is currently underway and scheduled for completion by the end of january two thousand and ten the recently added meda l p o is currently scheduled for award in early december and as of november twenty seventh g s a received almost eighty eight million dollars in reimburs e work authorizations from c b p this total g s a is obligated nearly fifty seven million dollars we continue to follow our aggressive schedule for awarding recovery act funded projects as of november twenty seventh g s a is obligated over one point four billion of recovery funds for federal building construction and renovation projects and has expended over eighty five million dollars of this amount we obligated seventy six million dollars and expended over thirty four million dollars for l p o e projects conclusion our land ports of entry are critical to the nation's security and its economic health it's imperative the g s a continue to provide and maintain border crossings in border inspection facilities that can most effectively and efficiently handle the increased demands of future growth of traffic and trade while still protecting america's border security we look forward to working with you and the members of the committee as we continue to deliver this important work and i welcome any questions you might have members of the subcommittee thank you for the opportunity to appear before you today today i'll discuss how c b p in partnership with u s general services administration is employing the seven hundred twenty million dollars provided by the american recovery and reinvestment act of two thousand and nine for the modernization of land ports of entry through the recovery act the b p will be able to ensure the safety and security of our nation while stimulating the national economy c b p is responsible for securing our nation's borders at and between the ports of entry while facilitating the lawful movement of goods and travelers across our nation's borders the scope of our mission is immense between the ports of entry we employ more than twenty thousand agents to secure more than five thousand miles of border between the united states and canada and mexico in addition within the ports of entry we employ more than twenty one thousand highly trained law enforcement professionals to operate three hundred twenty six land air and sea ports of entry around the united states during fiscal year two thousand and nine eleven c b p process more than three hundred sixty one million pedestrians and passengers across the borders were processed one hundred nine million conveyances and twenty five point eight million trade injuries as well in addition we examined more than five point two million containers and performed over twenty six point eight agricultural inspections as a result of these activities c b p was able to apprehend more than five hundred fifty six thousand illegal aliens attempting to enter the united states and seized more than four point five million pounds of illegal drugs in order to accomplish our mission at the ports of entry c b p relies on a multi layered foresman strategy that rests upon three integral components a highly professional workforce state of the art technology and a robust network  facilities and infrastructure since our inception in two thousand and three c b p has worked diligently to expand its qadri of law enforcement professionals and equip them with a suite of advanced screening and inspection technologies but we have continued to struggle with land port facilities that reflect missions and strategies longer no longer relevant in a post nine eleven world the funding provided through the american recovery and reinvestment act of two thousand and nine is a critical step to modernizing the lamport infrastructure that  pivotal component to our mission and the security of our nation's borders in total c b p operates one hundred sixty four land port inspection facilities of these one hundred sixty four facilities c b c actually owns forty three thirty nine located along the northern border and for along the southern border of the remaining one hundred twenty one one hundred twenty are owned by or leased by the us general services administration and the remaining one is owned by the national park service when congress appropriated the seven hundred twenty million dollars delegated for port modernization it divided the funding between c b p n g s a allocating four hundred twenty million for the modernization of c b p own facilities and three hundred million for the modernization of g s a own ports as a result b p in partnership with g s a will be able to modernize as many as thirty one port facilities along the northern and southern borders and accomplish substantial repairs and hansen said numerous others for the c b p ports in particular this effort will address challenges resulting from years of using deterioration as most of our facilities were recently constructed for decades ago with some dating back as many as seventy years to the depression era with increasing traffic and terrorist threats that our border crossing these improvements are a vital step to ensuring that c b p can confront the ever present threat to our national security while continuing to facilitate the flow of legitimate trade and travel across our nation's borders thank you for the opportunity to testify before you today and i would be happy to answer any of your questions at this time g s a stations and why this work is divided as it is who owns what and why i will i will take a stab in mr ghanem well i'm sure supplement as necessary in part it really has to do with a matter of timing many of the facilities that we own actually predate the legislation that created the universe and services administration and predate the legislation that actually created the federal buildings fund itself so in many cases there was no exchange of title  during that process and we actually retained under the legacy agencies that were ins and the u s customs service the title to those facilities those facilities actually over time have been reconstructed seven of those facilities have been reconstructed and  one of them was actually reverted to ownership by the rational services administration that the most efficient way to go about building important syllabi in the united states  working with them now to ensure that the projects that they're working with is there any functional reason for the division of labor here of this way it's always been and this phrase you're not in the business of construction generally are we actually are we ha substantial construction immaturity on our border patrol side yeah you're in the construction you're in the business of construction border patrol but generally your mission is what border enforcement you know we have a lot of concerns out here about border control when i'm i'm i'm a little concerned about that too using your mission is a matter of fact i really want you to keep your your eyes on the border that is it one of the most controversial subjects in the congress of the united states actually ownership of the ports of entry is an interesting conundrum in that twenty two and a half of the facilities themselves are owned by the private sector and that is actually an additional challenge that we have to confront is that because you couldn't lease the land that they could not buy the land were forced to lease they so much of the ownership that we have of our facilities those clues actually predate much of the rules that would have normally changed them into federal facilities so in that case we are working actively leasing arrangements a and our other federal partners to to resolve any of the issues associated with the ownership thus far as we're moving through the process and in particular a number of our private sector counterparts have been very forthright and supporting no i don't blame hearings and there is concern here about such concern for example that the administration itself bought a building that we had bought several times over in leases a building that is missed by the state department  continue to pay for building multiple times because we continue to lease buildings that will never ever be released to facilities where where this look how all these facilities are i can understand exactly what mr frazier's saying there was no reason at that particular moment to do anything but grandfather the man but over time it would be interesting to know how many times we have paid for these buildings and to wonder how many more times we are willing to pay for these buildings and if there isn't foam that are way  o proceed then to good lookin in the face of waste and just continue right along so what do you think should be done i think congressman you know certainly the a supports ownership by the federal government of all the properties that we have what are you one mr frazier i want to list of all your privately owned sites border stations or not when they were first least as well as their location will we need that within thirty days and i must tell you that in addition to my work on this committee i am a member of the homeland security  compelled to ask you whether or not there are whether there are any any security issues associated with leasing side post nine eleven today we have not encountered a security issue related to the actual leasing activity you considered what at how you were before the salamis when to con their way into the white house as a member of the homeland security committee i had not considered that they were until i saw what happened that they had pioneered a new way for al qaeda and just plain evil doers to reach the president elected officials and just plain celebrities don't worry about the barriers just pretend to be a celebrity and he will be so impressed that that's all you would take i'm asking i use the word post nine eleven whether or not it is the best practice for us to lease buildings rather than seek to own buildings that we know we will always need i'm not asking you to pay for mr fraser i'm trying to find out what is the best practice you are in the homeland security business i like your answer i think from our perspective we have found both few simple ownership and leasing to be useful in different different avenues as were what's  the relative use of these each ms which is preferable it really depends on the strategy that we're trying to employ and the size and scope of the type of inventory that we're trying to modernize and in fact in a number of instances where we do lease a private  what i'm going to do a via my own billing bad economy i'm going to give you an offer you can't refuse mr brazier they offer you can't refuse to jack up your your lease and dare you to do anything about it thus far we have not found that well you know what mr fraser i'm going to ask you to go back to border patrol which is a part of homeland security and tell them that a member of the homeland security and the chair of this committee ask them to consider  whether it is in what they would do if in fact someone took advantage of them knowing they have no place to go but where they are i believe it is your obligation to consider that even if not anything you can do about it at the moment but i am distressed to hear that post nine eleven you haven't even considered it i believe they would be within their legal rights i believe land of the kind we're talking about as gotten increasingly dear and expensive so i ask you within thirty days to tell me how border control is border patrol is considering that smaller border stations three sites in maine had from three hundred to over nine hundred thousand personal vehicles personal vehicles entries in two thousand and eight however other sites not included i'm sorry included little texas which had over six million personal vehicle entries in two thousand and eight now can you talk about how do you say developed its list of border station projects and why smaller g s a facilities seem to be given priority over larger cities with more traffic is  part of the legislation or what if you could address that it actually is part of the legislation in that the funds were limited to three hundred million dollars congressman we we work with c b p on the priorities for our projects the most important project to see b p on their list was the mare oppose the port of entry project which took out fully two hundred million of that three hundred million dollars available to land ports of entry so we work with c b p we work with the priorities of the projects that we had you know shovel ready or close to shovel ready to ensure that we worked through the list to put projects in place that would create jobs as quickly as possible and just the nature of the first project being two hundred million of the three hundred million dollars our options to other smaller projects other projects that needed funds to complete construction and designs for other projects that we knew were coming down the road very shortly and would be funded in future fiscal years so most of the  facilities along the northern border and and as a result nearly all of the recovery act funding is going to those facilities in light of this just say validate whether it should focus more on the southern borders insure a more balanced approach to to  to to station modernization or you're saying that you don't have much of a choice because the money was spent or what i mean the well i think two hundred million dollars was spent on the southern border in the first project so the quantity of projects were more in the northern border but certainly in the dollars spent  more money was spent on the southern border in the recovery act and your testimony you projected that over sixty thousand jobs yours will be created from the five point five billion g s a received under the recovery act for federal buildings you also make a that initial report show that as of october thirtieth g s a recovery act funding has created to retain seven hundred eighty direct jobs on approach approximately fifty six of those are crew are related to port of entry projects now as you know and i mentioned in my opening same last month a number of serious questions came up regarding the accuracy the job numbers on the recovery dot gov website now how do you know that these figures are accurate and what mechanisms has g s a put into place to ensure accurate reporting  e a analysis that showed that construction jobs typically you use in a factor of ninety two thousand dollars per job if you divide that into the five point five billion given to g s a that's where the sixty thousand jobs projection comes from  those are not those are job years that actually worked out very nicely with the information we receive from the recipient reporting in g s a was actively one of the most active players in the recipient reporting process we reached out to the recipients and very actively engaged them to ensure that they were hording that they were reporting accurately we provided templates for them to report so we didn't have the the situation of reporting a non existent congressional district for this trip for instance and the numbers that we got back from the recipients matched up very well with the ninety two thousand dollar figure the total number of jobs in the total amount of money that was out laid from the recipient reporting was very close to the nine hundred ninety two thousand dollar figure so we're actually quite numbers come from and you're saying no but but but the actual numbers are coming from who to you i mean are you getting it from the people who receive funding from the recovery and they're out there they're the ones who are actually counting the jobs making sure that there are real the whole recipient porting process is an expectation that the recipients of federal funds will report those those job numbers and funds and do the solo act received and he's actually seen in many cases that the has not been the case correct fortunately so so you really don't have at this stage a way to verify that other than the fact that they're you know kind of adding up with your estimates as i said congressman we reached out very proactively to the recipients to ensure that they reported accurately and we gave them a lot of those sort of basic information to make their life easier as they reported back to us and that paid off i think we got we got all but a few people reporting back we know who those people are we're actually contacting them we have contacted them and we'll continue to contact them to ensure that they report in the next go around in the end of december so we'll have those few stragglers reporting in as well are there no site visits for example to verify i mean or something like that to verify that the reports that they're giving you are actually accurate not so much in the recipient reporting process but certainly g s a is on site and all of our projects and we actively monitor who's on on our projects to ensure that the projects are running smoothly that the schedules in accuracy of information in terms of money spent is being well documented right i understand that but again you know we obviously have a have a what seems with what is a national embarrassment on and from what we can tell looks like some of the those who are doing the reporting are just not being  accurate so other than the fact that the numbers we know there's a chances are not that they're looking at the same thing they're looking at your estimates and then they're giving the numbers based on those estimates i mean there's a chance they're doing that i'm not saying that that they would be but but there's no onsite counting of and creating jobs which i'm glad to hear and number two assisting those most impacted by the recession yet it appears however that of the top twenty four c b p projects nine of them are in states with the lowest unemployment rate  at four point two percent so how did how did c b p take into consideration the state of the local economies and unemployment rates in the turning priority projects under the recovery act particular based on what those two assumptions that i just mentioned you all have the actual two governing criteria that were built into our that we actually use as part of our normal prior decision process where shovel ready nets and the ownership distinctions that were drawn within the legislation itself i will say that our current process is not designed unfettered local economies when we're looking at prioritizing these facilities in part because they're a part of a national infrastructure and we have to view them as part of a national border infrastructure we don't view them as competing between two state or local interests when we prioritize that process we actually go through and assess all of us and some of these that we operate against four categories of criteria those four categories and themselves and compass about sixty distinct data points that we use the basis of our initial needs assessment for those facilities we then use the resulting information from that assessment process to give us an initial ranking of critical needs and then we sensitize that by reaching out to our local stakeholders and operations folks who can provide us information that would not normally be collected through a national data estimate we use that then to establish our final ranking of needs and then we do what's called a project feasibility and risk assessment and that actually allows us to determine the execute ability of a project in a given fiscal year in particular with these projects we had to assess that in light of the requirements to have these funds obligated this quickly as we could into the national economy and to ensure that we could have these funds obligated not less than twenty four months or by the end of fiscal year two thousand and ten and that makes and that makes perfect sense to me but that doesn't jive with again preserving and creating jobs as a priority and assisting those most impacted by the recession and just now what you're saying makes sense on a regular day in a regular year but but if these funds were to create jobs and under again in the review it says again i may be wrong this is preserving creating jobs and assisting those most impacted by the rich by the recession those don't seem to be part of what you just mentioned right now well i think that i would draw a distinction between sending funds to the community where the actual port is located and actually benefiting those impacted by the recession of course most of the major construction into these that we have to contract with be they large or small business we'll in fact not be located in the small communities where a number of our facilities are located and so by infusing money into the construction industry in particular we view that as a way of ensuring that that industry is actually bringing on people to support these projects and move them forward in most cases we've also where we did not directly contract with small businesses we've actually asked the construction entities themselves to to reach out into the small business community as part of their sub contracting for the various associated disciplines that they will employ as part of their final construction project so while i cannot guarantee for example that all of the communities themselves that will have a port of entry project and in within their community will see  jobs increases within the confines of that community we believe that by employing the acquisition strategy that we've utilise for these facilities and we are in fact ensuring that we are reaching into the small business community and that we're reaching into the various disciplines that will ultimately be where jobs are created projects nine of them are in states with the lowest unemployment rate that clearly is not assisting those most impacted by the recession i understand where you go in but those two things don't match well i guess i guess if you look at unemployment rate by per capita per state as being the one defacto factor that you would use in assessing that kind of criteria then i wouldn't really have much of a response i'm not really trained in macro economics i can say that by employing the the acquisition jobs have been created or expected today we've created over up more than one hundred fifty jobs i think we're expecting as many as four thousand of course most of our projects right now are in their early stages they're in design which does not in fact an involved number of the labor discipline that you would normally employ as part of construction however our acquisition strategy is built on flowing design build across all of our projects so where those projects have been awarded we're expecting those contractors will begin their sub contracting plant in the next month and that part of the process will see an increase in job creation first let me ask the same question i asked about about you know you've seen also the reports the questions about the accuracy the job numbers on recovery dot gov what mcas mechanisms  p put into place and has put into place i'm sure that that the data that you're going to be receiving that you had received is accurate sure similar to the u s general services administration of course the structure of the reporting for job creation is built where the vendors themselves are the recipients of  stimulus funds are the initial report of job creation and there is a brief period of time where in the government is a afforded an opportunity to review their submission for accuracy in c b p we actually are employing independent project managers and construction managers to participate in all of our projects and who will actually be the project leads for all of these various projects and they then are also part of our reporting reviewers to review those vendor reports of course the reports we've had to date again i mentioned earlier have not seen substantial growth in job creation so most of the jobs that have been created associated these projects are really on the design side and most of our project managers actually work daily with the design teams so we're quite familiar with them and lastly the  spend plans include includes about fifty million dollars for the land port of entry whitetail montana which according to the c p p thirty day review averages five vehicles per day is it is it does that make sense to use taxpayer dollars on what for for larry that i was he doesn't have a lot of a lot of to body and what types and number of jobs you think will be created by for example that project that we know i don't know the exact figures associated with that project i'm sure that's something we could come back with the estimates associated with that individual project i can say that of course in viewing these facilities from the perspective of our dual mission of securing the border and facilitating legitimate travel and trade we view any authorised crossing as being an area where we need to ensure that the facilities in the infrastructure associated with that crossing are capable of supporting our mission and our operations so from the standpoint that we view whitetail montana as being the locus for unauthorized crossing we believe that that facility along with any other port of entry needs to be maintained at a level to ensure that it can support our operations and we don't view that is being a facility that is the port of entry for white house montana we view that as being an authorized port of entry for the united states of america as a result we must ensure that that  capable of securing the border to the same measure of security that any port of entry that is in operation today can you also mentioned in your testimony that something to the analysis was part of the process ranking project and can you talk a using in your aggregate data collection are not themselves sensitive to factors that you cannot collect as part of a national aggregate data set and i'll give you an easy example of that a number of our facilities are actually located in regions where in the border crossing is associated with large manufacturing center across the border however that happens to be regionalized and does not get counted as part of a national commodities collection set from data that we might collect from the bureau of transportation statistics or other associated sets but we can use the information from that region to inform the actual workload capacity at that facility over time and we actually reach out usually to the local stakeholders and to the operations and that region themselves to inform us as to whether or not the data that we've collected at the national level would be skewed in any way by changes in demographics associated with that locality itself and i'm driven to more if i may thank you thank you for as always being very generous you highlight in your testimony that she already projects were given priority and could you tell me how many of your projects are currently underway when you mention that most of it is now design or whatever how many of your projects are currently underway and what are the timelines for some of those projects currently we have already awarded seventeen design build projects out of the original twenty three that we identified in our first spend plan currently we're planning to award an additional eighteenth project i think mr sharon mentioned it during his original opening statement that will be awarded sometime in the next few weeks as a matter of fact and then we'll have six additional projects that were set aside specifically as small business projects those are scheduled to be awarded right now in the late february march timeframe of the seventeen projects that have already been awarded all of them are now a pproaching sixty percent design and in order to expedite the process for moving those projects through design and ultimately into construction we actually provided those vendors themselves as part of their initial submissions thirty five percent bridging documents so we have  did a portion of the design for them to ensure that they could move expeditiously into the construction phases we're expecting construction for those projects to start in the spring this fiscal year and probably in the april may timeframe depending on when the fockers of course because our construction season is restricted by the actual weather patterns on the northern border except for one project that we currently have awarded that will be in antelope well to mexico that project is actually expected to start potentially as early as march because designed been done all you need is the money to start construction so obviously that has not been the case in a lot of well from from our standpoint because of the way that we've been able to actually do the design work for these projects in advance all of these projects are now  obviously we've seen all these reports of inaccurate reporting inaccurate statements given by those who are supposed to give the information i would hope that you all are looking at that and trying to make sure that that the information that you're getting regardless of who is coming from is accurate i would love if you could get back to us with just what it is that you are doing to make sure that that those numbers are accurate regardless of who they're coming from and so that we can avoid some of those embarrassments and some of those fiascos that are taking place nationally with this money i think the taxpayers deserve at least to some extent to know that the numbers that they are having they're giving whether either good or bad are accurate numbers i would really like if you would get back to us as to what you're doing to make sure that those numbers are accurate and not just rely on them i'll tell you that they're not great people but obviously there's been some issues in the past and so let's try to try to address that now administration has ever even tried do before and that is to calculate jobs for funding by the united states government and that me and kate as well why i believe the g s a has had a far better accuracy record i indicated in my opening statement that unlike virtually every other agency do it has it is at least two steps removed it hands out the money the money goes to the states and from the state to go to the localities and somebody down there way at ground zero level has got to do the counting while they're doing the building it is far easier for humans to guarantee even you mr frazier to be accurate because you're directly responsible that is not how we do construction in this country we get we ask the states to do the construction the states in turn ask down to the lowest jurisdiction to do the construction that's called local control so for administration to have the guts to say we're still going to hold you accountable is to essentially put itself in the position of mistakes because it is so far removed from the people who would have the basic information and you know what i say keep on trying because you've s an important precedent and a precedent because it is the first of its kind almost inevitably which would almost in every produce the kind of mistakes that that we have seen and i compliment though because you are direct response directly responsible because every g s a site has somebody on the ground from the federal government nobody from the federal government is on the ground for eleanor holmes norton districts the infrastructure fund who's on the ground the people from the district of columbia or if it's a state of maryland maryland is not on the ground prince george's may be on the ground and somebody beneath prince george's may be on the ground and that's how they're counting is going on that is a very ambitious undertaking cannot possibly be done except as a practiced way of doing business and thank you for showing that the federal government at today unlike at any point in the past is willing to take on that task inventory what percentage is rented i do not know that but i'll certainly get that number for you but we prefer as you will is it not the case that overwhelmingly you own in that you can hardly cite me an instance where through this  committee has gone any prospectus for a courthouse that was other than i owned that's correct the vast majority of asking for the really i ask you for the reason that's all i'm trying to get on the record high why do we own how courthouses rather than we look we release almost everything today why don't you least courthouses in the simple answer is because we're going to own them in perpetuity and it's important to own them as you said we don't want to pay for one we security business that for the duration the united states government is always owned courthouses before nine eleven for security reasons and because it was the best real estate practice and i believe we have got to look at this notion  at this time we do not pursue least new facilities thank you very much let me ask you mr chairman about something that you know is dear to the heart recovery act we have a series of other projects as well that are using photovoltaics we have numerous roof projects as part of the recovery act and in many of those cases we're intending to add photovoltaics to the roofs as well as put arrays on the ground entry right it's an opportunity there's a large canopies on the ports of entry that lend themselves to having p v panels on them and i think we're going to use those very frequently now i'm interested in these innovative technologies particularly in light of the fact that  these investments are supposed to save energy and long run and i want to know how you know before you decide on a particular energy conservation protein that the government will say are you guaranteed to make energy savings mr fraser  gehring as a result of the energy conservation mandate of the state of stimulus funding do you guarantee that the federal government which is paying more upfront almost always in order to make these savings it's not just the recovery act congresswoman it's numerous laws and regulations that have been put in place recently to ensure that g s a in operating its buildings improves energy performance and we we really think we can guarantee that we're doing commissioning studies on on the vast majority of the projects that we have underway a lot of the the reason that some of the projects haven't you know jumped into construction is because we want to ensure through a commissioning study that our projects are using the funds to the to the maximum extent possible to improve energy performance and we're actively engaged in those those studies are wrapping up now and will translate into construction work and jobs in the coming new year  similar to the u s general services administration of course we are also subject to all of the various laws regulations and executive orders that are now in place to promote and ensure the federal government is moving to a more energy efficient framework for all of its facilities and conservation measures that are being built into the newest land ports of entry as part of our designs and ultimately into the new facilities themselves and we go through a number of activities to actually to actually rate and assess the performance of  currently we actually are conducting energy audit at a number of our locations not just the land ports of entry in fact at a number of our facilities to determine what measure of additional conservation we'll need to institute to reach the various benchmarks that have been in put into place through the various laws and regulations that are now in place and as part of our designing activity as well we go through a number of the kinds of study and analysis that mr graham referenced earlier to ensure that the designs themselves will be leed certified will provide the right measure of energy conservation and the right measure of performance as part of our new facilities and in fact if you look at the facilities that we currently operate the forty three land ports in particular that that we currently own and operate most of them are so grossly out of date that we could not retrofit them to the extent necessary to actually bring them to the level of performance that would be required under very important point to do anything with such old buildings today it almost is almost compelled not to be p wise and pound foolish in regulating them and i think you get to retrofit at a particularly opportune time because now we know we we know from the private sector who has been storming ahead cost estimates how we it was there we actually employed a couple of mechanisms that we think we're particularly beneficial one we actually developed our normal design standard into what we call design templates or design prototypes and you heard mr gurn reference that as part of his opening statement we've gone through over the last several years and working with us from the services administration a number of efforts to actually standardize the various operational components that compose a land port of entry i'll give you some easy examples of that if you look at a standard land port of entry of course you will always on entering the port see a pre primary lane and a primary lane booth where the actual officer is conducting their unfortunate operations over the years in in years past those were actually designed independently every time we had a new facility each time the design team really learned the process of what a land port of entry pre primary lane has to do and in most cases those lanes were not designed to allow us to quickly adapt the lane for new technologies over time so each time a new technology came online we actually had to expend additional resources to actually go out and modify the lane to allow it to how is the need piece of technology our current standardization effort has allowed us to develop lane components that are actually what we call plug and play lanes they actually have temporary conduit vaults that you can open when you need to install new technologies into the lane to run cabling directly into the lane closed the vault install the piece of technology and all of that without having to shut the lane down for more than two days worth of effort it's a considerable amount of time savings for us it's a considerable amount of funding savings for us and we're doing that across the port of entry and in fact we finished seven standard components that now that encompass the pre primary primary lanes in a much of the secondary inspection areas and we're now extending our r look into the actual interior of the buildings themselves to begin to standardize all of those components that says well by the end of it have buildings that will reflect elements of distinction but give them the context of the environment that they fit within that work with that but ultimately function in a standardized fashion across the northern and southern or first of all in your  work on on land ports of entry are you using the same kind of standardization process or not mister in fact c b p and they work together on these components to ensure that we are using exactly the same types of  technologies and that teaches to improve our ability to deliver i'm very pleased to hear about that you can conform or tailor the building as as appropriate but these are after all part the design guide that the courts provide which g s a obviously also worked on with the courts provides a lot of the same idea they're not as as standardized as the land ports of entry but a lot of the component me that there is a intend to move with what has i don't care how much money is authorized until sharing courthouse this is nineteen really built in until you in fact have ownership of the courthouse business the way you have ownership of the land port of entry business and until if i may say so the kind of standardization process units pray for you so well here is using corn as we are  able to proceed in l a because they have a sense of what they need that the federal government is unwilling to spend money to construct if we had began with standardization given the fact that it's l a we would have had to do things that we would not have to do in washington d c but we would have been able to begin saying this is how we do courthouses and every increment must be justified sh new criteria i think that are going to help the court and g s a ensure that our projects are properly designed to do the requirements that you believe are important to to the courthouse program we certainly will need to see the elements i've just described before proving a more courthouse in your spare their mind because there may be more courthouses coming you know that's a favorite of some members of congress i hate to hold him up because g s a is in fact who's holding them up but i just want to know how dissatisfied we have been with that program and especially with the failure to take back the program from the from the courts who even less than mr frazier and the building business but have had more to do with building know particularly if you have been able misphrased for example to come in or do i congratulate you for this it's twenty five percent under project cost what you done with the rest of the money actually as part of the development of our initial spend plan that of course reflected twenty three projects we actually scopes thirty three projects and have actually already prioritize those what were you able to do actually  rehabilitate more projects is what we're expecting to do right now with the savings we've generated with the first seventeen project awards will be an additional twenty nine are an additional five for a total of twenty nine locations and we  expecting consummate commiserate savings from the next six projects that we award assuming those savings are also generated we could do as many as four more leaving us with thirty three total design by project that's very unusual to hear from some federal  minute is this a matter of luck you know roll the dice right now then i see if i can get you to be some more luck we're experiencing savings as eight to ten percent on on average of the projects i've been working so far i'm sorry that's a rather obviously speak to the the differential itself but i can say that in part a number of the facilities where we work on are smaller and therefore less complicated as a total construction project so we were able to do a lot of the design prototyping for those facilities at the outset whereas most of the g s a facilities that we put at the top of our priority list are fairly substantial facilities that have very complicated construction designs and construction phasing associated with them and in that case it is difficult to generate the kind of savings that we  know wal mart has been such a successful company precisely because it isn't he inventing the wheel and the kind of design prototyping that you are describing is a teen although they communities obviously force them to tailor their stores as well mr garrett to what extent that is measurable as the g s a engaged in design a doesn't do a lot of prototyping on a on a total building scale we do prototyping as as we talked about earlier and components of buildings but each building is unique each building is located in a particular place each building has its own challenges in terms of site and that's not true for border patrol station we don't work on border patrol stations typically the land ports of entry program there are actually very unique aspects of land ports of entry elevation changes border patrol station i'm sorry more so than border patrol stations i believe so congressman because they are located in a particular location it's presidential directed actually internationally directed to a specific spot  and within thirty days submit to this committee whether or not you think any of it is to just say we don't find ways to parent build we're not going to be building at all the fact is if you don't build that much anymore so i'm not suggesting that you are all over the country building increasingly you leave and that's one of the the the great issues but where in fact you do build in the most from examples courthouses one would hope that we would not consider every courthouse a world unto itself that is what is given the judge's license to have ceilings that you would only have found in the nineteenth century multiple kitchens and and facilities that are heard of and are known in the federal government something almost approaching to rupture but they don't consider that way because the g s a says you can do it they figure the rules or say so so we would ask you to look at what the border patrol since it does one kind of building and normally as within thirty days indicate to us whether or not for court i'm not asking you to look at every kind of building you do but for courthouses protection how is that division decided upon and on the northern border we had anticipated well the legislation obviously dictated the split of the money i don't think that was a w it would seem mr frazier that they heard a lot of deteriorated buildings on the northern border is that it that there was a particular need of course as a g s a report g a o report coming out and that's not one we requested so there were there were folks up there on the northern border who wondered about the amount apparently i would say that for our facilities prior to the enactment of the stimulus legislation itself we have not been able to do major reconstruction of a facility that we own since we were created and probably in three decades before that so most of those facilities are in substantial state of disrepair right now i will also say and forgive me madam chairwoman  will say that i only do ports of entry but we build the fence projects as well we build border patrol stations we build air and marine operations facilities and we actually do build or do build to suit leasing out a number of other locations been a big concern of this committee and we do have one of your printer programs it's going to begin here in the district of columbia would you put on the status of friendship programs i ask that not only because this is out these people are retiring or about to retire and this is this they have good pensions certainly if they're a union gentleman and so there's every incentive to get out now so the apprenticeship program i'll speak to the g s a projects there are there is a requirement in each of the contracts for large construction projects to have an apprenticeship program so it is active and happening in each of our large construction projects as you know there's also a pre apprenticeship program that the congress authorized three million dollars for we've spent approx me two million dollars our first graduating class here in washington is happening next week congressman i understand you're going to speak at that event and i appreciate that very much we are program as well as peer pressure programs happening right now with very candidly we don't have an apprenticeship program as part of our construction projects themselves now i will say that part of our acquisition strategy what we've tried to do is expand beyond the normal pool design teams and construction firms that would normally be involved in a land port of entry project to in fact urge the growth inside the construction spec sector of an expertise associated with this type of construction land p entry construction has typically been proven to be a particularly challenging kind of project because of the number of interests involved and the various complexities of the facilities themselves so as part of our acquisition strategy we are looking to either through sub contracting or direct to small business contracting encourage the growth of both design firms and the construction disciplines themselves that are more experienced in this kind of construction activity i want to ask you to have a look at mr gerunds apprenticeship program even as it is not acceptable to have federal funds being used on a construction process project today without doing some kind of apprenticeship development on that project or not developing the workforce and the important thing about the stray sions work is done is not is not here only to lifting the time you have it's very forward looking and given the amount of work you do and you have described defense work work well beyond your own work it is inconsistent with how this is ministration has receded and not be preparing people for the work that you will be doing and i have to tell you that there will be criticism  of federal projects that are not preparing for the workforce of the future much of that workforce will be people of color and women these are people who faced intentional  nation for decades the industry has been open now for a number of decades as well but there was no government funding as there was in the one nine hundred sixty s and sevent wideout at about nine hundred eighty and what we have now is a very embarrassing construction industry it is a largely white male industry it is an industry that is that way not because of the old discrimination patterns of the past but because government funding has not been there to assist the industry much less government monitoring we are making up for that now i don't think this is ministration would want to put itself in the same bag as prior administrations which is feeding money into an almost hundred percent white male workforce and doing nothing to prepare younger people people in the very rural areas that that  you are quite good with the areas that may not be at the center or the epicenter of the project itself you don't want to be scored by that process not with this many federal funds and i must tell you  as a lawyer there is in my judgment a cause of action against the government on the title six of the civil rights act and the fourteenth amendment of the united states you cannot use government money to reinforce discriminatory patterns even if you are ask you to look at mr gerunds program and get back to us within thirty days as to whether or not you think you might create a similar apprenticeship program will be happy to appreciated final question small business plan the president has been speaking out about the failure of the banks to follow through with the job creation arm of our sector the small business sector they're dying on the vine and all of us are therefore looking to see whether with government generated funds there are small business plans that are in fact employing small business this misses and to what extent that is happening i would like each of you to describe your own small business plans if any the general services administration has a long history of encouraging the use of small business we have  project i understand the conferee act funding what with the goals how they're being met what can you tell me specifically about your small business specifically congress where we have the same goals for small business for the recovery act projects as we have for the multiple award task order contracts they had a seventy percent goal for set aside as part of the entire contract of which we would probably see thirty to forty percent set aside as part of small business in each phase so each phase design and construction would have the same goals attached to it and it has a very similar set of goals built into their idea i q's as well for all of our backup projects because we're no longer on the hundred the original legislation had a one hundred eighty day award timeline set into it for our backup projects they're no longer part of that original timeline so we're actually looking at doing more small business direct for any of those projects as we're moving forward and you said it at each phase of design phase and for the construction facts important very important very good here  we would like within thirty days to get a copy of your small business plan and of the results of that far mr gary carson we're moving into our small smaller projects were small business set asides are appropriate  right now a lot of the commissioning studies are happening in the they will result in single system projects and projects that are very appropriate for small business set aside contracts we have a number of goals that i described roughly thirty seven percent of our total is  aside for small business we expect to achieve those goals and we have a series of numbers broken down below that for various specific set asides so we're expecting to as i said achieve the same kind of performance that we have in the past with the recovery act projects and the projects now coming into fruition for construction are going to start really helping us towards achieving those goals missing misphrased got my attention met the king about the set aside for each phase one of the great complaint could we have your same for us mr frazier a copy of your small business plan the results that's far within thirty days yes thank you very much very helpful testimony we congratulate you both on your figures not withstanding the criticism in the criticism may have been well placed elsewhere but certainly both of you have reported statistics that us to be credible and we believe you are in a better position to give credible statistics because you are directly involved but we also appreciate the looks like the correct are you on schedule he has a little more time than you in spite of the fact that i don't do as much construction if that's your guarantee we are pretty good at moving the forward so we are on schedule to have all of our construction projects awarded well in advance advance of the end of two thousand and ten fiscal year twenty ten years now in congress when we have to obligate five billion dollars by the end of two thousand and ten we have five hundred million dollars that can can move into two thousand level and we are also on track to deliver about five billion dollars by the end of two thousand