that there are people that are coming across the parking lot when children are being picked up in this location it becomes dangerous with the cross traffic so they're just trying to find circulation patterns that are so three things what they're doing is they are going to have a six foot landscape along the entry out to try and prevent cars from cutting across the parking lot and they're also going to change the driver f regulations that we have and we recommend approval with no conditions for those goals this style sizes meet the regulations for angle parking as well as drive still all well above what would would be required by peter's town streets ordinance on parking lots so while the while will have less parking it's not an issue in terms of meeting the standards of the township our primary focus here is child safety we hold classes had that the education building which is the furthest billing to the to the right on  that plot plan on tuesday nights and wednesday nights and and during the winter time it's dark and we're concerned that somebody is going to get hit because one fortun parents or drivers i don't know to to all the parents but the drivers are not very respectful of staying in the proper driving lanes and so that's what we're trying to do is to control that to some degree we recognize we're never going to one hundred eight people doing what they want to do in a parking lot but anything we can do to to kind of  just driving willy nilly accost a piece of paper ground is not good in our putting in the good thing four masses one on saturday which is it's not full one it's relatively four we have three on sunday the the ten o'clock mass which is the mass that occurs when most people are taking walls or their children to be there to our sunday school classes that i held on sunday at ten but we have not we don't have fill up that parking lot under the lot this degree about actually at half furthermore i believe this kind of parking makes getting people out far easier than when you have to back out and then i'm certain there will be somebody who will think that that's something that they want to do what we're going to put in that that buffer riverstone essentially to kind of discourage to make it majority of people come from valley road into this so that makes a lot of sense that this should be the first turn in the driving into this parking lot and the accident in this parking lot of courage at separate times because it's all around built around a man schedule so people who are coming to mess are not really running into people who suddenly leaving something because we have two and a half hours between our mess it's so essentially the parking lot is empty when people come in and when they leave it's go ride the second exit out of the parking an anorak today would we have found that people are suddenly figuring out that's the better way to go because the line up we even have a after the ten o'clock man say constable down on valley group road is sr with unloading people coming down far away and so so people have figured out that it or they go straight out or they go straight out exactly are with the project the thirty seven acres as ed described it as outlined in the read the property currently has from teacher along spring the old road the property currently has a driveway her at that goes to the courtney homestead located right here on the property is a small pond approximately an acre and a half size pond on the property the north of the portion of the site is mainly lawn and meadow area and with the southern two thirds of the site is wooded forced to area through the property today there is a overhead high tension electric line running through the site in a northwest to southeast philly direction and in the southerly portion of the property there is a gas line that runs west to east through the property down to here topographically the high point is along springdale road through here it falls down to the lower fortunes of the property and then rises back up to here so we sort of have a bowl shaped area here this is the upper end of the watershed with springdale being the ridge line for the watershed so everything in this area is draining your toward the lawn and then after the pond there's a drainage way that is heading toward the south through that area we have you know she reported to point out it at this point how the front teacher along springdale road is the high point and the property is falling away in that fashion so any homes that would be constructed in this area will sit below the grade of springdale road which is important from the sewage point of view to the south of us is the south and westerly is the development called the hamlet hamlet phase one happened face to his has been constructed this photograph predates the it's construction which was done this last year phase three of five has its preliminary approval that brings the phase five street to the southern boundary line at this location for extension into the property when that occurs then also sanitary sewers and the other utilities that would be part of the phase five development would also be extended to hear the southerly portion of the property and that be probably one of the things that's obvious to you is why are we not developing the southerly end of the property with th proposed subdivision plan that we have and that is we really envision that this portion of the property topographically and sewer wise utility wise is best developed as part of an extension of phase five so we'll patiently wait this and the development we're talking about today is primarily the area here around the lake itself in order to serve that we have to look at where utilities are located we have public water along  springdale road we have sanitary sewer today at the very bottom of the hamlet and it comes up through phase two area and then the dash line shows how sanitary sewers would be extended in phases three four and five bringing it to this portion of the property given the absorption rate that the hamlet is having which is going pretty good which is a lot of watts in here we wouldn't expect that sewer to get to this point for probably another four or five years there is a sanitary sewer on the northerly side of springdale road that serves the single family homes that are on that westerly saw our northerly side of the road and do we have acquired an easement underneath through one of the yards in and under the springdale road that we then critics connect the sanitary sewer running along our frontage at this location that sanitary sewer would be a gravity sewer in that it could feed by gravity to the existing sewer system and flow out but as i pointed out earlier the home sites that would be constructed within this area would be sitting at or below the of that sewer and so how can we get access to it because of the limited number of watts that we would like to propose on here that we would think the grinder pump system would be the best so we've made application for a planning m to the peters creek sanitary authority and last monday we met with their board made a presentation and expressed to them the need for us to make this connection and to utilize  the pumps in this area their board has recommended that that would be an acceptable pattern for us to do and they've now authorized us to proceed with our planning module for that you quite well know that that's under a corrective plan and therefore it's got to go the planning modules through not only the peters creek authority but also this township claritin south park and i'm sorry i forgot discussion we talked to them about the long range needs for sewer within that area and all addressed that in a moment but having solved our immediate problem with how to provide sewage access to here we then proceeded to prepare the design plan and our proposal is to create a series of large walks along the front page of springdale lots one two three four is where the existing house is and five of those walks are anywhere in size from two to three back to two acres in size so they have nice acreage for societe with that what number six a building site down below here and having frontage along the lake we think would be a desirable building site with its driveway coming down in this fashion in a grinder pump could bring the sewage back up to the sewer it would be installing and so we have these state size locks you can see how we've taken in consideration the overhead power line in this area by putting one house on one side and one house on the other and again the within the size of these is such that a house has that substantially away from the power line itself within that area to anticipated that each one of the homes would have their own individual curb cuts out onto springdale road the pond itself located in this area we feel is  amenity that visually will be shared by everyone and therefore maybe should have access so we've created a two acre parcel here of open space that would include the pond itself the dam in this area seem to be well below you know in good shape so we don't have any fears for the safety issue associated with it and feel that this would be a very manageable feature for the six homes in the associat e as part of our discussions with the standard here yes already we talked about the future of service to the lower area and that brought in discussions on how we could take a long range approach in that when the sanitary sewer is extended as part of face five we will put in place right now a easement through all of law six and three watts five four three two one that would be in place as part of this subdivision plan so element we need to add to the documents that you have that would have this it would be a twenty foot per minute easement and a forty foot construction easement so that at any time in the future the easement rights of way would be in place right now sort of we've learned from this in that those rights of ways are not in place right now for hamlet so we don't have access to this sewage and what we wanted to do by putting the right of way in place now is that there are some neighbors to the east and west of us who are on septic systems and if any time they needed because of failure there's an inability to get every placement septic system needed access to sanitary sewers then this right it would be in place that could be utilized by either the about the neighbors or any of the water owners on our own property so that if they ever wanted at some point to transition out of grindr pumps and go back into a gravity sewer the right of way would be in place a portion of the sewer will be installed when we see the southern half of the property being developed and i talked about how the hamlet called us that could be coming to this point  that would be an easy extension of that called a sac back into the property here the end of the site for a development in here and when that's developed obviously the sanitary sewers will be constructed through that phase to area so we're really talking about is extending the sewers to this point and it would be easy extension to serve the remaining area if that future need ever took place was part of the discussion with the authority was that by putting that easement in place now whether it be two years ten years or fifty years from now that right of way would be in place and could be used by anybody because that easement would be specifically designated as a sanitary sewer easement so private individual or the story could be utilized that for extension of the sanitary sewer falls away we would anticipate that the crying or pump what wells would be at the back of the house so that the effluent from the house would go to a what well in the back and it's from the back then the sewage would be pumped to the front so to connect it to the future all you really have to do is come out of the west well and just do a lateral extension just an eight inch line just straight down the hill and each one of those and throw the  those you don't know what a grinder pump is it's basically a large garbage disposal all its function is so it just takes the house hold effluent that comes out of the sewer it's put into a wet well that what well is typically around five hundred gallons so if there's ever a power outage there's plenty of capacity there for a couple of days and i don't think anybody here is probably ever experience more than probably a few hours of power outage so there's capacity there for that if the pump ever fails for some reason it just you know they do have a life expectancy of about ten years of the system has a twenty four hour  backup system back up the providers here so even on christmas day if your pump goes out you can call trampled and they will come out and replace it so it's a pretty good system here for other is not a sceptic it is is basically a garbage disposal that takes the effluent from your house that's put into a wet well it grinds it up and through then pushes through its own grinding and pushing pushes it through a one and a half inch long line to the gravity sewer line that we've put in here so from the gravity line going to just run by gravity into the peters creek system  commonly used around likes ponds things like that where you have flat contours lot of it's in florida not as much need here in western pennsylvania because we oftentimes have flow but this is a great example of where it's factors one factor will be what will the market be as you can see we've we've decided on a market that would be two to three acre sized lot in an area where the allowed zoning is  acre so the range right now now what it may further complicate the ability to answer that is that when this area does come potentially available i'll say on line for development when hamlet comes on this misdoubt he may decide to have adopted more lenient use of cluster subdivisions something you've been talking about right now and if that's the case i would love to see a cluster development within this area of more open space associated with it and in smaller lots maybe quarter acre lots so i could only speak to the fact that this is approximately a sixteen acre parcel  so you're only going to get so much density out of a sixteen acre parcel that even bisected by the gas line so if that helps you with that as far as a street goes phase five cul de sac is located here it's in my mind in disarray that you would extend the call to sat to somewhere in here have a cul de sac at that point and then off of it t that would go to the right and you go up in a cul de sac in this way so it looks to be like it just given the shape of of where the the thing that would drive that will be when faced for of a hamlet comes in for that to be extended to here right at the moment the hamlet has a allowed to was created preliminary plan approval short of the property line in that area and you know that you and i i think we prepared a drawing that we shared with you that showed how these two co connected this way clustering all of the development on this side making all of this open space so that had some desirability but i think that's something maybe the township could influence mr hoskins on when now because it would be a lamp walked so staff made an appropriate recommendation that it be removed and that's what we've done we've made it part of what's six so that's it but it's this area that we would anticipate that would be reserved out of swat six if you would in anticipation of development  it's a simple little two lot subdivision becomes a little complicated by the fact that back in the eighty's the township approved the fruity plans one two and three which very created for a lot of long narrative drive you see to them  right here where there's two of them and there's two down here alone for a movie that's part of the play in number three there were conditions placed melt just a tad this is only a small portion of the fruit be parcel there's a large portion of the fruit the form is on this side of from the road it's all one piece of property it's bisected by for the road so we interpreted that that conditional on the probie plan number three the just address this side of the survey submitted to play in to you it's in your docket it shows seven or so additional lots being carved off the here all with access to to meredith into or from be the only there's a problem with that plan in that there's too many lights on septic we only allow it turn all of nine lines be subdivided off of the track that have septic the four that they created for the planes one two three these would be for a point before these would be five and six so they can get systems will be which is normal we know how we do we know at this stage in the game that they've been to washington county suge council they've been through the per testing we know that they've been found to be suitable for a and before they go to council they do their work through the washington county sewage council to find where these are not systems are going to be tired they're tired their systems down with an easement and then you can i don't see any reason why the plan would not be approved i don't understand the hesitancy to do the per testing through the sewage council so well i think you guys are well with cash flow this is an issue and so that your our attorney came up with this this is what is actually happening is contradictory to it at first and he told me you will have one and i talk to my turn to talk to everybody but we're just trying to close our state and get on with their lives regret we have other places because our ground is just not we can't see other undesirable there any zoning amendment requires planning commission to make recommendations council that's what we're hopefully going to do tonight this ordinance addresses three three issues first is we're deleting four sections  provisions in our zoning ordinance for companies that want to do seismic testing in townships certain criteria needs to be in place mainly we're addressing damages public property even private property there's language in there that includes that we will not allow any explosives to be detonated in the downshift for  we put some requirements in here stating a minimum fifty feet from any occupied structure we've gone for overweight vehicles we require our performance on and in the amount of five hundred thousand were the image based on the operation and we asked that the clued us the township as an additional insured for a minimum of five million and also have to indemnify township those those requirements that are listed in the ordinance will be incorporated into section six hundred number ordinance zoning ordinance which was our performance as they used permitted in all zoning districts in we just established a stair wished a few criteria to give ten acres to mine for release from many occupied structures they provide copies of the permits for the well five million dollar general coverage right that's why we've said the minimum fifty four we think that that is pretty much going to take care of any damage that would occur to unoccupied structure seems pretty tight but the one question i guess i have it's not s waves it's energy that you're pushing from drop of we get some mass and weight into the ground that's creating a ground vibration it's very similar to blast him but a much lower scale i guess correct has anybody know th two directions gives so why would you it's what i'm saying i i don't know if they're directional because you're good you're putting a force into the ground it's going to go out in all directions it correct in but under the act well some of it is to be in compliance with thirteen years hasn't yet because the next thirteen defines seismic testing as part of the definition of gas owner property in writing by us mail to personal delivery it's probably located within two hundred fifty feet of its play and energy source operations and we have a minimum of ten working days prior to the actual you're you don't know what they're doing you don't know what the levels of vibration going to be it may be nothing you may be very small but right now there's nothing there i grieve and i'm with i was hesitant to include in there the restriction on lasting because i think that we are walking a fine line i think we are getting in the operational aspects of seismic testing well again the last thing you don't i understand you say martin not getting their operations but you want to put an opportune shinin there that what they're doing is not whatever they want to do you know you want to have some restriction that you don't want to have every resident not your panic and that they're going to get damage you know on in the you know based on this vibration  i don't know the answer to that we reach is too near fifty feet being reasonable and i just can't believe somebody hasn't done some seismic readings on this this to get some energy levels because again if hundred fifty feet away from these thumpers what vibration did typically feel what level of vibration and if you knew that i think it would make you want more confident with which you got here without knowing and i don't know which you're prov that's the match we've got he certainly did not say that was the maximum i think we could raise it we just don't want to real we want to we don't want to stand out have wasit against us for being counsel with respect to the permit because it's going to be new be you guys could solve engineers you know do we want to put a fee in there plus out of pocket expenses for consultation your questions one was a follow up to the issue about protecting the property owners just as of this of thought i guess under the the five hundred thousand dollar performance bond where we say has got away without having to go to court and sue somebody go get paid my and it gives you a one month window to get it done i thought maybe you go one no sooner and one month no later than six months just give you a little bit more window to get get the work done well with those are coming out anyway insurance companies usually will mean not not it's usually a definable who your carney it's not just like anybody and everybody that's it's going to be hard to get insurance policy but something under that under mainly internal changes to the journey will express more of a restaurant sit down eating kind of thing green some parking revision so it's really some minor revisions we start seeing more activity out there and after the weekend next week there's your sanity to get back out there and start work and we begin a lot of calls from residents asking what's going on so they just went through some design changes they pulled their contractor off they got this design american planning association or do we have any contact with with the american planning association to any updates we are ok you guys you guys want to be i was just curious about that and i wonder if i have you know