the hearing of the subcommittee on immigration citizenship refugees border security and international law will come to order this is a hearing that i think is very important because it's about the duty we owe to those we asked to pay the last full measure of devotion this duty should transcend politics and partisanship and in this we can find agreement we owe no greater duty than the one we owe to the members of the armed forces and their families as we ask our troops to stand in harm's way as we send them to war our duty to our soldiers airmen and women and marines must remain paramount as they protect us we must protect them each of them is a son or daughter a husband or a wife a parent or child a brother or sister tens of thousands are immigrants countless others have spouses or other close relatives who are immigrants or ha immigration issues our duty to these brave men and women obligates us to ensure that their focus stays on their mission and on the safety and security of those they serve with we must do all we can to reduce the stresses of war on the families of these brave men and women the wives husbands children parents brothers and sisters of our soldiers agonize every minute of every day for their loved ones who stand in harm's way they do double and triple duty while their loved ones are away for our troops peace of mind about the home front is the ultimate comfort when our soldiers or their family members face immigration issues it clouds affect of activeness and their focus we must do all we can to relieve the burden of our service that our service members face last year i was privileged to meet petty officer second class eduardo gonzalez when he testified before the immigration subcommittee a united states citizen he enlisted in the u s navy in two thousand and three after graduating from high school and going on to earn an associate degree and occupational studies eduardo has been to deployed to iraq three times on ship and on sure he was married in two thousand and four to his longtime girlfriend they now have a son when they married eduardo's wife had been waiting for more than four years to get her green card what neither edwardo nor his wife realized what was that simply by getting married she would no longer be eligible to get her green card because her application was dependent on her being the single child of her mother eduardo's wife came to the us from guatemala when she was five years old she had waited for years for to process her case but she was in danger of being deported when i talked eduardo he expressed the great burden his wife's immigration difficult immigration difficulties placed upon him they were distract he told me how he constantly worried about her and how he feared that she might be deported while he was at sea or in a combat zone he worried that their child would be left without without a mother and a father another soldier whose wife arrived legally in the u s at age thirteen but overstayed her visa thereafter fear that his wife would be deported and worried that his two year old son would be in limbo while he was deployed for the third time quote i joined the army and i take pride in what i do  rodriguez said but it's hard being away and defending a country that doesn't want your family these stories real stories are happening every day the soldiers serving our nation and it's a reason why i believe we must change the law to provide immigration assistance with family members of american soldiers it would be one small measure we could do for those we asked to pay the last full measure of devotion for us i look forward to hearing from our witnesses today who can each provide us their own perspectives on the need for immigration changes for our soldiers from the perspective of a three star general who has commanded many soldiers in need of immigration help soldiers trying to navigate an immigration system that has thus far failed them and from an attorney who volunteers her time to help soldiers around the country solve their immigration cases where she can i'd like to recognize the sister of one of our witnesses airman carla rivera who is with us today  the audience ms daisy maldonado who is twelve years old has traveled all the way from tustin california to watch her sister testify and we welcome you and we hope that you enjoy your day here i'd also like to note that sergeant yolanda grove area has come all the way from north carolina with her husband and three kids to show her support at this hearing she too is experiencing the labyrinth of immigration law and has not yet found a way out thank you for being here today i would like to recognize our distinguished ranking minority member stephen king for his opening statement thank you madam chair and i want to thank the witnesses for being here today and today and for your testimony that i anticipate our nation owes a debt of gratitude  those legal permanent residents who serve in the u s armed forces the same day that we owe to citizen soldiers and sent september eleventh one hundred eleven non citizen service members have made the ultimate sacrifice and have been granted posthumous citizenship they have a special place in our hearts congress has long sought to facilitate the naturalization of non citizens serving in the armed forces in fact our immigration laws contains three special naturalization provisions just for service members the first is section three twenty eight of the immigration and nationality act which permits a permanent resident who has served honorably in the us armed forces for a year during peacetime to naturalize in the hundred eighth congress we reduced the period from three years this is in contrast to most legal permanent residents who must be in that status for five years before they can naturalized one way of respecting and appreciating service in our armed forces and second section three twenty nine of the immigration naturalization act permits an alien who has served honorably in an active duty status in the us armed forces during time of war to immediately naturalized we're now in such a time of war as of july third two thousand and two president bush officially designated the period beginning on september eleventh two thousand and one as a period of hostilities third section three twenty nine a of the immigration nationality act provides that an alien who has honorabl served in the military during a period of hostilities and died as a result can be granted posthumous citizenship if requested by their next of kin after we learn that some of the members of the military who died in combat during operation iraqi freedom were not u s citizens congress acted to i didn't hands benefits to permanent residents were service members and their families as i mentioned congress reduced the peacetime military service requirement for expedited naturalization from three years to one year we prohibited fees from being charged to service members who are applying for naturalization we required that naturalization applications interviews filing souls and ceremonies be available through through united states embassies consulates and as practicable through us military installations overseas we provided that the spouses children and parents of u s citizens who died as a result of serving an active duty status including service members granted posthumous citizenship would retain the immigration benefits available to the immediate relatives of u s citizens however this hearing is about a much different proposition it's not about easing the naturalization of u s service members and providing substantive immigration benefits to the legally present family members of service members who were killed in action rather this hearing is about whether to grant amnesty to illegal immigrants who are family members of u s service members this hearing is about whether to waive many grounds of remove ability for non citizens who are serving in who have ever served in the military and for the non citizen family members of service members including those grounds are predicated on the most serious of crimes our soldiers fighting in some cases give their lives to preserve the rule of law it seems ironic indeed that some would propose to disregard the rule military these benefits also go to most aliens who have ever served in the military no matter how short or how long ago where their periods of service and they go to wally and who are the spouses minor children adult children parents and minor siblings of service members just what grow those are way to well among them are illegal entry into the u s and the three and ten year bars to re entry for aliens who have been illegally present in the us for more than six months additionally immigration judges are given the discretionary authority away of most of their most other non terrorism related grounds including the authority to waive most criminal grounds and document fraud falsely claiming citizenship would be waived potentially as well as illegal voting as soon as how soon we forget that the abuse of discretion by liberal immigration judges force congress to remove much of their discretion in one thousand nine hundred six the salience who arrived in the u s illegally cannot be removed and can re enter the us despite having been in the u s illegally for extended periods of time immigration judges will have the ability to waive all the criminal grounds of the portability for murder gang crimes and rape on down remember these waivers apply not just to service members but to their family members and to most aliens who have ever served in the military what else does the bill do it prohibits the use of expedited removal against illegal immigrants and immigrants convicted of aggravated ag or aggregated aggravated felonies as long as they serve honorably in the military at any time it also would prevent the reinstatement of removal orders against such aliens who illegally return to the us after being removed this bill will create a perverse incentive for persons to intentionally enter the military for the express purpose o amnesty or relief from the immigration consequences of serious crimes for themselves or for their extended family members this is not what service to this country is about we do need to stand for the rule of law here i am though interested in this testimony and i do appreciate greatly the service to this country by the witnesses here and all those they represent that i'm sure i thank you know your background gentleman's time has expired i would turn now to the chairman of the full judiciary committee congressman john conyers for any statement he may have thanks chairman  national commander of the american legion mr martin konitz but we weren't able to communicate before the hearing began but it might be useful if we meet informally and see if we can work out our differences and the first person i'd like to ask to join myself and then is the ranking member steve king and if you if you if we can work out a mutual time to do this mr chairman i if i if you would yield to me i would note also that this bill has a good  bipartisan group of regional co sponsors mac born burry who is a member of the armed services committee is the lead with the public and i would hope that he would be included along with us mike pence a member of the judiciary committee as well as mike turner also a member of the armed services committee it's a good idea and london and i just thought it up with the minutes ago this is not been laying around a long time served in combat as i have it's one thing to wonder how your family is doing back home it's another thing to wonder if your government has locked up your spouse or having those kind of discussions really helps us flesh out on a tender how sequential is and i don't question the heart i just question some of the potential unintended consequences thank you thank you for that clarification  and then we need a little flexibility in the law and i think the loft legislation may cover that you know to require a person to show at the immigration office when he's in iraq and in the offices in the united states as a condition to to your wife getting the clearance is it would be funny except that it's so tragic and so if we if we really want to do this we keep a nice we get more efficient about this and then the course our colleague from texas jean greene has another bill that is not under discussion here today that also makes this a little more efficient and a little smoother and i'm proud of the witnesses that are here today and they asked that my statement be made apparent at the record without objection that so ordered i know that mr smith is not yet present but his statement will be invited should he appear later and you have the time and in order to hear from the witnesses without objection opening statements of all other members will be made part of the record we now turn to our panel is my pleasure to introduce margaret stock m stock is an attorney and a lieutenant colonel in the united states army reserve she is currently assigned as an associate professor drilling individual motor mobilization augment in the department of social sciences at the u s military academy at west point mr and ms stock earned her bachelor's degree in government at harvard radcliffe andrus doctorate at harvard law school and a master's in public administration at the john f kennedy school of government also at harvard university is a two thousand and six graduate of the army war college which awarded her a master of strategic studies degree she is a nationally recognized expert in issues related to immigration and said this is chip law and she has testified on these issues before congress in the past next i would like to introduce carla ramiele of the river rivera a native of mexico airmen were vera was brought to live in the united states as a little girl and has lived here ever since she married a u s citizen in two thousand four and later became a conditional permanent resident in march of two thousand and seven she enlisted in the navy she is currently assigned to the u s s carl vinson where she serves as an aviation boatswain's mate airman next i'm pleased  welcome captain kristine navarro captain navarro is an aircraft commander pilot assigned to the ninety first air refueling squadron at macdill air force base as a graduate of the air force academy in two thousand and two captain of o receive your commission and degree in astronautical engineering with a minor in mathematics she is currently attending texas a and m university distance learning master's degree program in industrial engineering captain navarro has a three year old son with her husband jose navarro our next witness is retired lieutenant general edward baka who is testifying on behalf of the american g i forum his military career included forty one years of distinguished service in appointment by the president the united states to the position of chief national guard bureau in this position general baka oversaw the army and the air national guard in fifty four states territories and the district of columbia gen began his military career with the new mexico national guard at the onset of the vietnam conflict he volunteered for active duty and overseas deployment and served in the republic of vietnam just a few of his numerous awards and decorations include the department of defense distinguished service medal to army distinguished service medals and the air force distinguished service medal and the legion of merit general bok as a graduate of numerous military schools has a bachelors of science degree and liberal arts in the state university of new york at almaty out any who is also awarded an honorary doctorate of law degree from new mexico state university a las cruces new mexico after retiring from active duty military service and part of forming the baka group gen consulted in both the public and private sectors and devoted his time to community service finally i would like to introduce marc's c v mr c v began his career with the american legion in one nine hundred ninety seven prior to his employment with the american legion he served in the active duty army the us army reserves and the virginia army national guard as an in for three squad leader with the virginia army national guard who was activated for service in bosnia herzegovina in one nine hundred ninety seven in two thousand and four he deployed to afghanistan for one year performing a variety of functions including providing security for afghan president hammad karzai and serving as an infantry squad leader on combat patrols  recipient of the combat in for an infantry men's badge to armed forces expeditionary models the nato medal to army achievement medals and other medals from his service he is a graduate of the settled citadel the military college of south carolina and has a jurist doctorate from george mason university school of law as i've mentioned before a hearing be can the written statements of each of the witnesses will be made part of our official record of this hearing we would ask each witness to testify for about five minutes and then we will have an opportunity to pose questions to you so may we begin with you ms stock on your testimony and thanks again for being here madam chairwoman and distinguished members of the committee i'm honored to be here today to talk with you about the field of u s citizenship and immigration law and its effect on military members veterans and their families the statements opinions and views that i will express today are my own they're not necessarily the opinions of the united states military academy the department of the army the department of defense or any other government agency for the past several months i've been volunteering with the american immigration lawyers association military assistance program a new collaborative effort between the american immigration lawyers association and the legal assistance offices of the judge advocate general's of the united states armed forces the military legal assistance offices provide free legal assistance to military members and their families including active duty reserve component and retired military personnel in order to maintain the highest level of readiness possible in the event a military members deployed recently jag attorneys in these offices have been inundated with immigration problems complex immigration problems and to resolve these cases successfully they often need the assistance and experience of immigration lawyers who've been dealing with this complex area of the law ala map this new program with the american immigration lawyers association has brought these two groups together for the first time in a dynamic partnership and as a volunteer with ala map i've been able to see the wide range of immigration problems that u s military members veterans and their families face today and i'll just mention that the military members who are present here today have all contacted ala map for assistance and i was became aware of their their issues because of that program i'm honored to be appearing as i said before you today to discuss the immigration law problems faced by members of the u s military  their families these problems are numerous and result from the fact that immigration laws an extremely complex area of the law often arbitrary and many of the laws and regulations that affect immigrants and their family members don't take into account the situation of members of the armed forces fully the u s is a global power and members of the military are deployed in more than one hundred countries around the world and while our armed forces are engaged in fighting the global war on terrorism with an enemy who speaks many languages and travels internationally and fights or forces here and at home and across the globe america's immigration laws often detract from our ability to fight that war currently many military members fighting overseas find that they have to fight their government back home as a government creates bureaucratic obstacles that impede military readiness by preventing family members from accessing benefits or getting benefits under the immigration law by refusing to allow family members into the united states altogether or even seeking to deport military members or their families it's important to emphasize and i know that many members of this committee are fully aware of the complexity of immigration law but it's important emphasize the current state of the law is dysfunctional and irrational and it only promises to get  worse as military members encounter these laws and the system they are often experiencing the same difficulties and frustrations that civilians experience they have to deal with a complex system that requires years of study to understand a system that makes it nearly impossible for many people to immigrate legally to the united states unless they can find and have the funds to hire an extremely experienced immigration lawyer these military members face the added burden that they must cope with these complexities of the immigration law while at the same time they're coping with the stresses of the military lifestyle i applaud congress for its efforts in recent years to smooth the citizenship application process for military members and i would like to note for the record that citizenship and immigration services has a very dedicated team of professionals at the  service center who've been doing everything they can to naturalize military members as fast as possible and they receive some criticism but in my view the criticism is probably undeserved because they've been working really really hard to naturalize our military members i would also note however that sometimes their efforts are stymied by other agencies that are required to name checks and process fingerprints and that sort of thing and that has caused problems for our military members congress has also made some recent changes to the law so that family members  their entitlement to continue with citizenship and green card process simply because they've gone overseas with their military family members we've had a problem in the past with that were the fact that you got deployed to germany meant that you lost your ability to naturalize as a u citizen but more needs to be done and i want to give you some examples of immigration problems that still exist and that are hurting military readiness first active duty members of the military are still being placed into removal proceedings and forced to hire private attorneys seek assistance from ala map or represent themselves while the department of homeland security is represented in removal proceedings by qualified attorneys it does not provide defense attorneys to aliens who are in removal proceedings or even u s citizens are mistakenly put into removal proceedings so you have to find a lawyer on your own and although theoretically there's a policy with the immigration customs enforcement folks that they won't try to deport active duty military that policy doesn't apply across the board to everybody in homeland security and so they've been doing that today i know that airman rivera is going to tell you more about that later so i will defer to her personal story on that front a second problem military members faces their inability to permanent legal status for their family members in a timely manner and this doesn't just affect people or unauthorized this affects legal people government processing times are slow the procedures are complex and the fees are often unaffordable for many military families we're finding a map that many military spouses can't get driver's licenses can't get social security numbers and are facing situations where their spouse is being deployed overseas by the military and they're left back home without the ability to drive without a social security number this puts tremendous strain on the family support groups on the bas which have to go and take these people around and take them to appointments and things since there's no mass transit readily available on a lot of the bases so this isn't a problem another problem military families are able to file applications for immigration benefits but sometimes they often run afoul of the complex laws through no fault of their own they move frequently notices don't reach them we're having a little technical problem with the h s where they don't recognize a p o an f p o addresses in their computer system so military family members don't get notified about things and then they lose their entitlement or become illegal because they didn't show up at an appointment or they were ordered to go overseas while application was pending when these things happened the h s will deny the applications or sometimes put them into removal proceedings we've had a number of military spouses put into removal proceedings simply because notices didn't reach them on time we have problems with fingerprints were family members have to travel more than a hundred miles just to get fingerprinted by the u s government we have problems with medical exams where military doctors are not recognized by homeland security as being allowed to do the perfunctory immigration medical exam that's required to get benefits but our worst problem right now is a problem faced by military family members who have who are out of compliance with immigration law and this is mainly due to one thousand nine hundred six changes to the immigration laws which are extraordinarily harsh they punish people who have been here illegally in the united states and leave to go get a visa overseas in some cases people have a legal status such as temporary protective status but they're barred from getting a green card so even though they have some status that allows them to be here they can't get permanent residence and then there are many military family members who are simply barred from getting green cards altogether they have no hope of getting a green card because there are no waivers to many of the violations of immigration law that they have they're involved with these laws have a particularly harsh effect on military families and force them to make a choice between abandoning their families military members have give me one case in point george who is an army soldier he serves in the critical health care field his wife was told by an immigration judge an immigration attorney working for the government that if she simply left the united states and went overseas to a consulate she would get her immigrant visa me back in six months when she went overseas to get her visa at the instruction of the immigration judge the state department told her that she was barred permanently from the u s and could never be allowed back in georgia mike and now is facing a really difficult choice yes is aside whether to join his wife  africa where she's now being forced to live or leave the military secret hardship waiver from the military to join his wife in africa or abandon her to stay in the military i offer that is just one case i know that you'll hear about others but i want to summarize by saying that president bush emphasized the important contributions of military families in the state of the union address earlier this year he lot of the contributions military families make and how they sacrifice for america it's time that we honor those sacrifices by allowing some flexibility in the immigration laws for military families this will enhance military readiness thank you very much captain rivera would be pleased to hear from you now could you turn on the microphone please good afternoon and members of the subcommittee i'm pleased to provide you an overview of my experience as an immigration immigrant to the united states my name is carlos i'm a native of mexico i was brought to live in the united states as a little girl and i've lived here ever since i married a u s citizen in two thousand and four and became a conditional permanent resident that was set to expire in two years in march of two thousand and seven i listed in the na and july of two thousand and seven i was supposed to apply to adjust my status to that of a lawful permanent resident removing the conditions while in a school in pensacola florida i went to seek help from navy legal service office central where they help me to file the i seven fifty one to adjust my status based on my marriage to a citizen this form was returned due to be posted i returned to the naval legal service office central where i was advised i could file instead and  hundred to become a naturalized citizen based on my military status may well legal services office central filed and four hundred but then reported to the u s s carl vinson in august of two thousand and seven to vince and checked on my immigrate immigration package to find out that the nebraska service center had no record of me filing and four hundred the vinson help me file a new and four hundred in december of two thousand and seven in january of two thousand and eight i was sent a notice to appear in immigration court in los angeles california due to the fact that my status was terminated because i failed to file the petition to remove the conditions based on my marriage to a us citizen my hearing date was on feb twenty eighth two thousand and nine i went to my new local legal assistance office and they will legal service office mid atlantic in norfolk virginia with their help i filed a motion to change venue to arlington virginia but the court would not rule out on that motion until the day of the hearing which required me to travel to california at the hearing i was fortunate to be represented by a pro bono counsel who had helped me filed my original paperwork for residency the council asked the judge to terminate the proceedings based on the foreman memo put out by u s immigration and customs enforcement which states that i c e should not initiate removal proceedings proceedings against military members who are eligible for naturalization under section three twenty eight or three twenty nine of the i n a despite the fact that i had and four hundred applications pending based on my military service i subjected to the terminations on the judge and the judge would provide an attorney for free and got me started toward citizenship i have an interview with the norfolk three old office for my naturalization scheduled for may twenty seventh two thousand eight hundred fully by the time my hearing in arlington carnes i will be a citizen and this nightmare will be behind me the situation has been extremely difficult for me both professionally and personally as an illness and member of the navy station on board the u s s carl vinson a carrier that frequently deployed i'm worried about letting my shipmates down and working out of my rate if left behind during deployment which would have an effect on my military career i know the ship will ensure that i make the hearing but it is difficult for them and for me i've also had to spend my own time and money traveling to los angeles for the removal hearing i'm grateful that i have had the assistance of naval legal and opportunities to find pro bono legal services to help me with this complex issue if it hadn't been for the help i would not have been able to afford legal counsel on my own thank you for your continued support thank you very much and for your service to our country captain of our would be pleased to hear from you know chairman off three members of the committee and special guest good afternoon i tend to pilot training in pensacola vance air force base and my first assignment at macdill i've been deployed three times since my commissioning an all in support of operation iraqi and enduring freedom my next deployment since september of this year for four months a statement and opinions are expressed today are not are my own and do not represent the views of the air force apartment defense or any other government agency now let me take you back to my humble beginnings and tell you about the positive impact a bill like this would have on me and my family i come from a my a family of migrant workers i grew up in a small town my husband and i were neighbors from high school graduation exceptions to the academy he was  we moved out he moved out to colorado in one thousand ninety nine to be close to me and be carter be part of what i wanted to become a pilot academics football games parades jump school and in two thousand to graduation he was there we were married two days after i graduated the academy by the justice of the peace three weeks later we found an immigration attorney to help us start drafting papers to adjust to his status after my leave was over i was back to work wat survival resistance training pilot training through military moves later he was there not just two thousand and four my son was born by then we were settled in florida and i had done what i had said to do fly  the two trips around the world in a month safety school and two deployments he was there as a loving supportive military spouse all the while we were both waiting to hear from immigration i received word from my attorney while i was deployed that on thirteen november two thousand and six we'd go to what is mexico far from my husband's consulate interview we arrived three days prior to be sure we had time to get all our paperwork in order his interview consisted of a five hour wait in line followed by a two minute question and answer period about how he'd enter the country our lawyers had warned us that his prior entry and false claim to citizenship could bar him from the country but we were confident that after four years of waiting and thousands of dollars we'd be able to move on but what you hear on television from so called experts is not the truth it's not easy to stand in line and get legal our application was denied and my husband was told he was barred forever from entering the us i flew home the next day a single parent and i flew my husband to mexico i didn't cry because i had not accepted defeat and made it a priority to find a way to get us together i would find a way we could not be possible that my husband who had never been convicted of any crimes could be barred permanently in the meantime i could take an assignment overseas for a few years while we worked out a waiver in march two thousand and seven five months later my son was diagnosed with cerebral palsy i was crushed g the cat scan two surgeries therapies and doctors appointments my husband was not there my better half my shoulder to cry on is not here i refocused my attention on my son his medical condition takes overseas assignments out of reach for us so from where in about childcare to now worrying about my next mission now that my husband is not here i carry that load alone i have accepted defeat i could not get us back together i could not find a waiver because there is no way were i don't work for one mistake or force or even a two mistake or force i maintain that throughout all of this honesty was the best policy and it would work out in our favor i don't condone my husband's actions although in the scheme of things what he did was not horrible he too comes from humble beginnings my husband is not a criminal he is worse off than the criminals even criminals can pay their debt and are afforded the opportunity to be reintegrated into society today there is no forgiveness process i do not know how to love someone and never have an opportunity to make a life am i supposed to file for divorce papers should i break up my family to comply with the law to love us to let go and i need closure and to move on it's only fair to give him permission to rebuild a life in a country he never grew up and i can imagine what it must feel like for your wife to choose country before you and then to choose your son before you i suppose i could apply for a hardship and go live in mexico but i'm an american soldier my life my family my job is here in the u s i'm proud to do my part today and i know by testifying today i can make the horrible decision i'm being forced to make to choose between has been in country i hope you do your part by passing a bill that will spare other fellow soldiers in similar situations my pain so as long as i can i'm honored to serve you in uniform thank you thank you very much general i'm not a number but i do understand and can relate to the i'm not sure how to categorize my grandparents who are arguably some of the first settlers who came to this continent from the iberian financial to what is now new mexico i believe it was called new spain then my grandparents didn't cross the border the border crossed them my maternal grandparents who live with us and helped raise me never learned the english language we spoke spanish at home and i had to go to school to learn how to speak english we spoke spanish it was our first language and my parents taught me a sense of patriotism and love of god and country that compel me to join the military and rise from the rank of private to lieutenant general only as in america is that possible and no one loves and appreciates this country more than i do i'm here because i have seen and experienced firsthand the sacrifices that members like the one sitting next to me today testifying and their families endure in the interest of gaining and maintaining the freedom that all of us as americans enjoy in life in my service my duties took me to every corner of the world i was in all seven continents and more countries than i could have ever imagined i was also fortunate in that i have been in all fifty four states at least once and all these travels made me realize one thing that i've known all my lifetime with all its war and sores and weaknesses we live in the greatest country in the world the united states of america and i'm proud to be an american i also realize that it's american service members which have made and kept this the greatest nation in the world these are men and women who have taken a solemn oath protect and defend the old oldest living democratic dr in the history of the world they subscribe to the code of conduct which first article says i am an american fighting man woman i serve in the forces that guard our country and its way of life i am prepared to give my life then most women who have taken that that sol have upheld it all have sacrificed and some made the all to sacrifice giving up their precious lives however it is not only the service member but their families also pay the price for our freedom the hardships the endure our unimaginable for those who have not experienced them unfortunately some veterans and members of our families and have not always been a port of the same rights and privileges that our constitution guarantees most citizens of our society that is why the american g i form whom i represent today exists that is why i'm here today to testify before this committee it is your responsibility as well as all of us to ensure that we are willing willing to send our troops in harm's way that they and their families are guaranteed all the benefits of our constitution to include citizenship service members have a right to expect all of us to do our part in not only supporting them but also their family members the last thing they need when they're deployed in a dangerous situation is to worry about the well being of their loved ones let me conclude chairwoman by saying once again how proud i am to be an american and to say that i'm proud of my hispanic heritage hispanic americans have answered this appear before you today present the views of the nearly three million wartime veterans who make up the american legion the american legion has been a leader in mentoring candidates for united states citizenship dating back to the beginning of the organization in  longstanding position on immigration american legion remains opposed to any great influx of legal immigrants and has called for immigration quotas to be set on a moderate and regulated numbers that enable the immigrants to be readily  family of a permanent resident alien than it is to the family of an american citizen who has served this nation with honor no special pardon no reprieve for lawlessness no exoneration for bad behavior is given to the service person or the family simply because one wear the uniform of the united states military the same should be applied to the individual or the family of the individual who lacks the status of united states citizenship laws that prohibit illegal entry or continued on lawful residency in the us exist for good reason these reasons include national security the nation's economy and the general impact of certain aliens would have upon american society the american legion continues to welcome and strongly support legal immigration into the united states one thing i did want to say is i apologize that our national commander was unable to make it here today mr conyers had mentioned that perhaps he'd like to have a meeting set up and we're more than amenable to do that our national commander travels extensively but we would love to work no offense is taken by the committee we understand there are conflicts and we'll see if we can have such a meet wonderful thank you ma'am at this point we will go to the part of our proceedings when members of the committee have an opportunity to pose questions to our witnesses before i do let me just note as i mentioned earlier that this there is a bill that's been introduced h r sixty twenty there are also several other bills in the house relating to pants and his lawyer at a sanchez who's also on the armed services committee mike turner who's also on the armed services committee and mr sylvester reyes who is chair of the house intelligence committee so it was my hope that we would show  bipartisan volatile very solid effort towards making our soldiers lives easier you do a lot for us it seems to me that we should do what's necessary for you for your families to be safe and for you to serve our country with that knowledge i would like to just note that the provision of the bill question by the ranking member and  inferentially question by mr seavey could be misunderstood in fact was changed to a waiver provision in the from an earlier draft at the suggestion of mr sensenbrenner so that it would match what is  currently the state for service in the military and here's the point according to published reports about twelve percent of kurd army recruits entered basic training this year with a special waiver for so called criminal records and what the military is doing on a case by case basis is taking a look at what the conviction is and seeing whether really it's serious or not serious and if not serious they're allowing those individuals to serve their country in the military so here's a situation where we end up in say for example you have an offense it sounds serious when you read it you know you have been  convicted of a sex offense indecent exposure but it turns out you were actually mooning somebody at your high school prom and not that i approve of that but it's a little bit different than what you might imagine by the charge itself in that circumstance the military is going to let that kid join the army and serve his country however there is no waiver for naturalization purposes so you end up with a situation where a person joins the military they're waived in for an offense that actually is not serious enough to keep them out so they can go and get shot at in iraq but they can't raise their right hand and swear allegiance to become a citizen of the united states mr c b do you think that's reasonable i think our problem is less with it waving for an active duty military person as much as the fact that this benefit would accrue to family members who might not be and so the question the question i pose you've got a defense that lets you serve lets you get shot at and risk your life prevents you from becoming a citizen do you think that's a reason this if you're asking if i think it's the same offense and if it's exact same of offense a kept was initially kept out of the military in a way ever was done so you were put in i would think that that specific incident of that same specific person should be waived to become a citizen if you're in the military and again i think that's a question right and i think again our problem is more the a cruel to a family member and we can have another discussion about those other issues but i want to get clear on that point let me turn to you captain navarro and your testimony is enormously moving first your story is the american dream i mean from humble beginnings through the academy i mean what an achievement and and how patriotic you are and then for this terrible result for you it's really it's heartbreaking to listen to i guess it's obvious to ask but would it li be easier for you if your husband were back in the united states to help you take care of your child with cerebral palsy and do your duty to your country in the air force yes man that was the whole time that we were soon we got married my  husband pretty much became the stay at home dad while we waited for immigration to do everything so that was his job as he was to stay home to let me let me turn to you colonel stock in your testimony is extensive and i read it's very interesting and i recommend that all of the testimony from all the witnesses will be posted on the subcommittee website but you talk about the ninety six act i personally have problems with much of the ninety six act i voted the ninety six act but when it comes to say a false claim of citizenship i mean that's pretty easy to do in a non bullishness way and i fact we have one of our colleagues mr go taxes who has a private bill that we introduced he introduced for a person who signed with his alien registration number that he was a u s citizen obviously it was an error he signed something his lawyer prepared for and he's permanently barred under the law unless we enact legislation before ninety six was there a possibility to show some common sense for a judge to take a look at a look at it and say this isn't reasonable this outcome isn't reasonable yes ma'am before september thirtieth one thousand nine hundred six if you made a false claim then the government could take into account the factors and possibly give you a waiver it didn't mean they had to give you a waiver but there was flexibility within the law that would allow you to possibly if you m get favorable exercise of discretion i think it's also important to point out that this false claim can simply be an allegation made in some form there doesn't have to be a conviction for this it's just somebody in the government writing down on a form that you made a false claim and you're just permanently barred for life you have no chance to refute that information you don't get to go to court and argue that this information was incorrect and it does happen inadvertently sometimes it happens on purpose but the point is you don't need a criminal conviction to be permanently barred from the united states  an awfully harsh provision of the law and it just can't be justified on principles of fairness there has to be some flexibility in the law for minor things like this let me ask you based on  your experience of the things that cause problems for soldiers you mentioned i think the false claim of citizenship issue we've just discussed the fact that soldiers aren't getting notices because they're moving and because they don't get noticed then things proceed have you come across circumstances other than his are very here where you have an american soldier doing combat in iraq and yet another arm of the u s government is moving to deport them well they get told that it's a little bit complicated they get told that they're going to be deported or that a notice to appear has been issued and normally the military scrambles with these folks and tries to get them to you know i'm not criticizing the military i'm just examining what the law to be well the interesting thing about the law is if a notice to appear is issued to you and you don't show up for your hearing then a deportation order is issued because you didn't show up for your hearing and then you get your name put into the database and you're considered to be a fugitive and the next time you get stopped for a traffic stop you get arrested and deported basically now this is a system that kicks in and this is one of the vera was very anxious to go to or hearing in california because of its military duty prevent her from going that hearing the judge would simply issue an in absentia order and then the next thing you know she ran into law enforcement for some reason she would get deported but if she never got the notice because they're not using a p a a p o boxes or because she moved from one base to another than that just circumstance which is all and on the place now theoretically she could say i didn't get notice and try to fight it but there's no lawyer given to you to do that my time has expired i'll turn now to the ranking member for his five minutes of questions thank you madam chair and i thank the witnesses for your testimony the stock just picking up where you are here are picking up with you as committee but i'd ask you generally overall is there are there crimes that you would join with me and excluding them from waivers crimes that are so agree just that they should be excluded from waiver with regard to this bill that's before well sir i think the problem with generally excluding fluting crimes is the same one that madam chairman and identified sometimes when you look at the details it turns out that the situation is not as bad as it may appear from the definition of the crime and we were talking to the waivers earlier but there's somebody who was le into the army and the press made a about it because this person had an arson convict the gentleman yield and ideal because it occurred to me i mean the military is not waiving in murder murderers into th military i mean if you have a conviction of murder they're not allowing you to enlist in the in the in the military perhaps madam chair and that i thank the gentleman i don't know that it's a misunderstanding here thinking in terms of someone who has gotten into the military then who has applied under this bill for them or their family members to have a path to citizenship say a green card and if this is a blanket permission that allows a judge to waive crimes then i think we need to build a very tight fence around that and i'm i understand your argument about the indecent exposure which i don't know that's a sex crime i don't think we actually prosecute that in my part of the country but so i'm concerned about that and rather than press for an answer that was going to go another way who would you say no to  if you were in charge of writing the immigration policy for the united states of america philosophically would you draw a line and where would you draw that line mister i would go back to the definition prior to one thousand nine hundred six of aggravated felony which states as a whole that we look at it as i think i heard come out of mr cd an overall number of people that we legally allowed to come into the united states and then i hold that has a sum of its parts that stay within the whole or is it simply the sum of its parts and if there's any component over immigration that we find that someone has a had a bad experience with that we should open that up and not be paying attention to the breadth of the whole what would your policy look like would you put a cap on the overall number of illegal immigrants coming into the united states because i don't i don't see any restraints here when i was in your testimony well first of all as far as i can tell the bill does absolutely nothing to eliminate all the family quotas for the whole entire immigration system the only thing it does is relax some of those qu certain without regard to the bill your own personal philosophy is one point three million people too many or too few would you put a cap at two million ten million would you cap it all well with regard to people in the military i think the problem you run into is we're a global military when you deploy people all around the world they do but with regard to your personal philosophy my personal philosophy is that in a global society currently our immigration quotas are too low to meet the needs of our would you set them out then mr i would set them substantially higher than what they are today because they have two million five million ten a million a year and what range would you be or would you kept them at all i think i would at least double the current quotas because to me they're artificially low they were stuck decades ago they have a half million a year pace with our population growth but you know i think the really critical point here and i'll give you an example earlier we were talking about crimes i spoke to a navy sailor last week who is serving honorably in the navy but he cannot become an american citizen and the reason he cannot become an american citizen is inconsistent then to waive the rule of law for those who have taken that oath certainly we would argue that it is and if i could real quick on your previous question about the discretion i think that the d o d when it makes a waiver someone coming in has a more i have enough faith in the d o d that they're making this they're using this discretion wisely i'm a little nervous about what an open ended waiver might be going back to the earlier discussion but certainly when you when you raise your hand and swear note before recognizing this to get here is that the number for a scientist family preference every years two hundred twenty six thousand and two two years you are recognized for five minutes thank you so much for very important to establish a record that would allow us the legislative action necessary in order to stop these things from happening in the future i mean you're obviously representative of a class of people that ne d congress to respond i will say that i find it amazing that people could come forward sense that somebody some i left or somebody to my right and they're having the immigration issue and they helped save my life and we're in combat together i don't know i don't know of the soldier ask his comrade in arms next to him kind of reminds me of my my dad he couldn't speak english but it wasn't a problem he was sent to korea as i know tens of thousands of others who could never speak the language the english language have served in the military without a problem as a matter of fact if memory serves me correctly a young man from guatemala who entered this country legally then applied on the pos pretenses saying that he was really not twenty but he was seventeen and thereby got his legal permanent residency the first thing he did was join the marines and he was the first casualty in iraq that's just happens to be the history of what goes on here so you know let's look at things not from this let's look at what it is people do and how it is they participate and then let's do the right thing based on that because i think that the law and the consequences of the law should have some relationship with what it is they supposedly did wrong so we have people that are obviously heroes in anyone's who wives are being deported whose husbands are being deported and i think that other men and women in the military might want to stand up i bet if i went back on that ship with petty officer gonzales and i went to all of the people if i went to all of the fellows fellow sailors and said what do you think we should do should we deport his wife or should we allow her to stay in the united states with petty officer going solace i bet i know what the men and women in uniform would decide instantaneously that they would do with their fellow brother i mean c'mon just think of this from a logical point of view in terms of what people would do obviously would be there but then we have a situation where let me see roosevelt said during world war two and thought said you know after this war we should make sure that all of those men and women who come back here that they're able to buy a home and go to college now we have legislation that has over three hundred sponsors here in the house to allow anybody who went to war in iraq that serves in our military that after they've served be able to go to college and we have a president of the united states who it is said i was in the national guard during the vietnam war and of vice president five different occasions  and we really think it's a terrible thing that all of these men and women have died in combat and all these tens of thousands we're going to veto that legislation so that's the kind of quandary that you find yourself we have a congress of the united states and we have an executive government who extols the virtues of those who serve in our armed forces but won't stand up to make sure that at the end of the day you get a fair shake that your family is sacrosanct we go thousands of miles away in order to establish democracy while the basic foundation of any democracy i think is the family we should do everything we can to preserve that family so i thank you all for your testimony today gentleman yield back i would turn to mr goodlatte for his question well thank you madam chairman i appreciate your holding this hearing i'd like to ask all the witnesses if in their opinion h r six twenty grants more favorable treatment to illegal aliens serving in the military than current law grants to legal residents serving in the military is stuck you want to comment on that first i'm sorry but i'm not quite sure that i understood what you're asking for grants more favorable treatment to people who are illegally in the united states serving military than grants to legal resident serving in the military no i don't believe that it does people who are legally here currently for the most part their status can obtain benefits i mean the problem we're having with illegal people is that they become illegal because the laws are so complicated and they have trouble complying with them and then they fall out of status and become illegal and then they can't get their status straightened out that's a lot of the cases that we're dealing with are people who entered legally at one point but ran afoul of the immigration  can separate the two out so neatly as everybody likes to try to do are their requirements that are relaxed for illegal aliens that are not relax for similarly situated legal residents serving in the military well i'll just throw out one thing people keep talking about they're against an amnesty but we benefit from having a relative serving in the in the active duty so i guess i would have to say if the question was whether the american legion feels it's appropriate to deport the spouse of someone serving in iraq our answer would be no but we think that could be more easily solved through something like the soldiers and sailors relief act or something of that nature the fact that this benefit is accruing to such a wide range of people in such a wide range of ways certainly makes us very very leery so in short i think it's safe to say that this benefit does accrue more rapidly at least among someone who's here legally than someone who is here don't know well i think it depends on the case because military justice is administered by commanders but there was a senator from washington who committed fraud a long time ago by joining the military he lied about his age and was allowed into the military and later on wen on to become a united states senator and i think he was not punished because it was determined that although he had lied about his age and used a false birth certificate in order to enlist in the navy at the time he went on to have a great career and serve his government and so he was not punished  commanders take into account the individual circumstances of people and their background in the equities when administering military justice so do you think it's a national security concern for foreign nationals in the country illegally to commit fraud to obtain positions in the armed forces well i do believe that anytime somebody enters the united states military there's always a security issue you need to vet people fingerprint them but the armed forces are doing that right now we check their status with homeland security we fingerprint people we run a lot of that doesn't really answer my question if they if they commit fraud to enter the military is there a national security concern well there could be again i'm  the case particularly when they're receiving the information from the get go so we clearly think it's a national security issue when this legislation provide relief for the very individuals who committed my cursory  l screen thoroughly and in terms of people that take the old my mentor the person that enlisted me came into the service and served as world war two hero korean war hero and he came in under false pretenses and that he lied about his age he was sixteen years old so and he served well and was never punished for the eventually it came out he would just wasn't given credit for that one year when between sixteen and seventeen well we certainly understand that these things have to be addressed on a case by case basis suggested but i wouldn't give a the kind of latitude to just legislation provide because it might not be just lying about your age it might be lying about some other aspect of your status then you might be for the purpose of entering the military to engage in activities that are not helpful to the military so i think we need to be very careful about that as we move this legislation forward but i think you mentioned i thank you gentleness time's expired i would recognize the gentle lady from california my colleague  remarkable that you have spent so much time taking up issues that i never even dreamed existed with immigration and i'm very appreciative for the opportunity to learn a lot more about the complications of this issue and are very appreciative that you have dedicated so much of the of your time to dealing with these issues i am a little bit  all of the witnesses some of our witnesses that are here today particularly are two members of the military who are describing to me and what i consider to be an in high esteem and we hear on a daily basis how much we support them i did know that there was a difference between some soldiers and soldiers who may our military immigration status and i just it's hard for me to internalize and to understand how it is someone could serve this country make those sacrifices and we not want to do everything that we can honor that service with citizenship i guess a case can be made that somehow they are getting something that others are not getting but if others don't have the problem of trying to keep their families together and of having been to this countries when they were babies haven't lived here attended school here and worked here and gone into the military and only then to be told at some point that not only will the military service perhaps not be honored but they may be  separated from their families they may be sent to countries that they know nothing about on and on and on it's just it's amazing to me it seems to me that  the best thing that we could do for many of these situations is to try and come up with a way that we can honor those who serve with citizenship certainly after they have demonstrated  their support for this country and their ability to serve satisfactory and in the service i feel a little bit strange that as i listened i don't there most of us don't really understand what the seventeen fifty one is and what it in four hundred is it what it three twenty eight and a three twenty nine and on and on and on but it sounds as if it's a kind of run around that nobody should have to experience so i think with all of these hearings i don't know if i have any questions i mean we have heard i guess maybe go ahead i understand that  have you discussed with your lawyer if or how your immigration status would be affected if you were to leave the united states while you were still in read move or proceedings i mean what is your are you saying about that  well thank you congressman waters i have not quite discussed what would happen if i were to leave for would to get ordered remote from the country where not really focusing right now to be honest with you however it does affect me greatly to know that that's even a possibility what if you don't if you're not able to deploy when they deploy what happened to your career i could quite possibly lose my right my what my what all the general made the yes because i think the answer is that if ms rivera is deployed outside the united states she would be under immigration law be perceived as self supporting and she would not be readmitted with her unit if she had to go she would be considered deported even though she is active duty military and i think the general waiting for you thank you very much there's a possibility if you are deployed you could be considered as just described and not allowed to come back and there's a possibility if you stay here and you don't deploy when they do that you could lose your rank is that what you said my rate which would be my job i would not be able to perform my job or more importantly i would not be able to return to the united states say we deployed to kuwait once i hit port and once i get off the ship i'm not allowed to come back you know i would do you mean if you were deployed to kuwait we'd leave you there yes ma'am that's shocking and then it would be up to that government to return me back to mexico well i suppose i have no other questions i just want to be a part of a solution the gentle way that i could i thank the general a d and i would recognize the gentleman from california then hit and run because i don't think that really adds anything to our discussion and i think that's to be lamented colonel stock as i understand some of your testimony the very beginning you suggested that we have some problem with the slowness with which there's naturalization for military members as a general rule is that correct no as a general rule the citizenship process for military personnel is going very well but we do have an ongoing problem with the f b i name checks and with the quick processing of enlistment fingerprints and not all women fingerprints don't get processed and you also mention something that sometimes they won't recognize military doctors for the physical exams at what  the homeland security only recognizes the persons that they have certified to perform medical examinations and most of the military doctors can't qualify because of the arcane rules relating to civil surgeons so they're good enough to take care of our military people good enough to do physical seems to me that's a simple thing we might be able to check one would know i'm serious that was a great we could at least say what's the nonsense here and you and i both serve on the homeland security committee it seems to me that we ought to be able to i think would be great  expedite military naturalizations we have an agreement with homeland security that they will accept military enlistment fingerprints so that sailors airmen and marines don't have to go to an application support center and have fingerprints so we have that but what's the problem well the problem is that lesson fingerprints don't get processed sometimes they take nine or ten months to process that's a military problem it's not the military it's apparently related to another federal agency outside the department of homeland security i believe it's the f dumb things for bureaucracy that ought to be taken care of and i don't think there would be any disagreement among all of those sorts of things i would hope now let me address something else and again i'm sorry that one of our largest single legalization in the history of this nation we thought it was appropriate at that time we thought it would with enforcement stop the tremendous amount of illegal immigration we  have we legalized a lot of people i'm proud of that frankly in the circumstances but it didn't have the intended effect which was to close off illegal immigration of this country so i would just say that it is important how we fashion abilit man i'm really not prepared to answer any questions on the specifics of my case but i can actually prepare something in writing for you so that i don't give you any false information or let me let me just ask anything there's been almost two years to change the law and i respect that very much and so maybe you're here to testify on that but we can ask you questions because of the thank will jeopardize your husband's case and appreciate that but as i said having been involved immigration receive his visa because of a prior in free and false claim to citizenship as we know there is no waiver no matter what the circumstances on the allegation of paul's decisions that i would rather than question  appreciate but you know it does make it difficult for us to hold hearings to try and gather information if when we have witnesses we can ask questions not asking question of anybody i'm trying to get an idea of the kind of circumstances that occur that we think we ought to take care of because as the ranking member has said this bill has a wide scope i have some sympathy for parts of the bill but the bill has a wide scope it's asking us in many cases to make wave different qualifiers including crimes when i got the original memo on the bill it included crimes such as human trafficking was to be one of the way of all offenses i thought that was one of the things we ought not to do and there are several other things so all i'm trying to do is to try and figure out stories figure out what specifically applied to the language of the bill and  for your service to our mr gohmert you have arrived i didn't see you there mr would you are you interested in asking questions then i will note that number one we thank you for your service to our country i am personally committed i can success but i can guarantee effort to try and make sure that we do the right thing when it comes to our men and women serving in the military and their families i would note that you know no bill is necessarily perfect this one may be no exception but we've worked hard to try and make sure that it is a solid rational approach i think that it is a mistake for the congress to think that they can micromanage every case because that takes a judge looking at eat the facts of each and every case to make a decision that's just one i would just no today if you're an american citizen serving in the military in iraq and you got married to a woman from another country say you married somebody from perri but you get killed in an i e d before that visas process is your widow honored no she's deported so i don't think that's the kind of america i believe in and i think there are some things we need to do to clean this up as we look forward to memorial day i hope that we can sort through i think there's been maybe some confusion on some of the details of this bill i think mr conyers idea to have a sit down session sort through the details is a good one i plan to do that in a spirit of bipartisanship and in the hopes that we can honor our military for their tremendous service to us and let me just further say to the to the two service women who are here if there's anything that we can do that i can do personally to assist either one of you  your personal situation i would very much like to do that with that we may have further questions if if so we will forward them to you and we ask that you answer them as promptly as possible the hearing record for this hearing will be open for the