page ten line one is a reference to marshall road i have no idea means i think it needs corrected mr zuck might be able to help and on page one of the three line twenty five she misstates p t for me as p t for b so i think you want to correct that if it's in the public hearing and that would be oh i found thank you  two things under five point i assess min appeals i sent this earlier to mr sylvester i asked him to clarify something so that it made more sense when they made a comment to mr curie made and one that i made and what i basically asked was that paragraph seven on page six in the minutes to page fifty one fifty five in the docket i asked that he inserted a statement in advance so that it would explain what your comment meant and what my comment meant it was related to the idea that the killer would be doing the appeal so i asked that he put in a paragraph that said the township does not intend to actively participate in residential assessments relative to the county wide reassessment but will monitor all non residential and on usual resit commercial residential says situations and inform council continue to handle those that require attention so that when your comment is missed your curie asked charge their normal rate it makes sense and then following that immediately because of the timing for appeals it was proposed that council be notified by email when a residential appeal decision warrants an appeal by township so then that leads into my comment mrs merrill has concerns i would ask those be included believes we should have a brief executive session just to go and i was real quickly all right so we would be expecting to return the five or ten minutes please  ahead and approve these we should probably look at that in our ordinance i mean why create something that we're then going to have variances about but then create a number that is legitimate and stick to that i think it's kind of ludicrous that every time someone turns around or come in for a township i'm sorry yes and the planning commission had made the recommendation i could have said subject to their recommendation but it is it has to be acceptable that the township it's not going to be in some cases what we really don't saying about this and as for it seems like we really have no idea what that expense is going to be to the township we're going to be held accountable for making corrections mitigating damage  by the end of the year last year so that's still under review but these five potential projects could very well happen and like i said the second one on the agenda here and involved this particular area with the  developer is willing to pay for the easement so it's really up to you as to what you would be seen as a reasonable number and we'd be happy to negotiate that with you as to mark's suggestion it is a three point  suggestion that we could just go to the about a property owner we have attempted to negotiate that property and that has not been successful so that is not an option for us and  he would like us to use condemnation to assist in acquiring those rights of ways that would be possible in the a body property owner and as to the m s for only a portion of the sewers going through the area we certainly can work with mark to find an area that would avoid the m s for wetland area or we'd be off we'd be able to offer our property as an  area we have plenty of opportunity areas on the property in which we could create weapons that are in the same watershed so i don't think that it's appropriate to take a rough schematic that mark has thrown out here and which he says will avoid the weapons when he really engineering solutions if there are probably well that being said but the developers representative all make a motion that we table the consideration of this issue pending the developers providing mark with a new alternatives regarding the location of this proposed lot of the language in this is very vague and you're right it seems like horsemen could be selective in terms of how punishment is i think one of the things with the vagueness of it all just on my behalf an issue that would be very severe would not obviously say for instance we started out with a written warning for the first offense and in an instance this very severe would not just if we want that we wanted the ability to be able to to attach the to the proper concerned about as well but the biggest is the lack of documentation we require certain documentation before the associations are permitted to use the fields or facilities some of those are important especially the background checks because of the fact that they're required by state law now to as well as our own policies and procedures and not getting those documents prior to the start of their season and us knowing that they're on the field are we going to be at risk and they just you know they continue to not provide that information in a timely manner sometimes you know it's the end of the season before we're getting it and there's just nothing to get them to the point of really realizing that this is something that we need now before you take the field michaud it from my opinion you and the border standing in the place to try to protect the kids and to do what you have to to make sure that whoever's involved is doing the appropriate things to the documentation is about that it's also about knowing who's participating trying to get a handle on what's positive what you know what needs to be increased or whatever and i don't find it difficult to understand that you need something in place so that you  can kind of put like consequences when people don't comply how much that happens and whether it happens every year for every group or every year for like six groups if it's happening all the time then you need something in pla and as we recall as we take in that documentation every month i report to the parks and recreation board what i've received and they can see what's up to date and what's the link went and they've been toiling for some time now about how to get these associations and compliance you know there's only so many e mails and conversations that i can have with them and you know and like i said we've called them in the board meetings and the board has had conversations with them so it was just the board trying to figure out a way to have them comply with our policies and procedures and it's typical situation many times of the transitioning of new board members you know and you know them getting their feet wet and you know but you do i made the comment before i know that these people are volunteers and i admire that they will do it so you don't want to be onerous about what you're asking them to do but again their parents and i'm sure they want their kids to be safe so you know it's really about the quality of the program and making sure that that everything is supposed to be correct and the conversation that the board had at the meeting about the level of discipline for whatever issues have a like a policy violation or what has been to that effect that they don't they want to be able to address it individually per action or infraction because of the fact that they don't want to say we have to do this because the circumstances may have been different for this is the issue and so that's why they didn't want to be too specific but i mean you can answer that john again i agree a lot of it has to do so the you know these are volunteers these are parents  community you know for many many years and it's countless hours and it's you know you do it's a double edged sword you know we don't we obviously from a protection standpoint we want to make sure we have all the do they don't know how they know we actually ask people for doing that i think it's just a lack of follow up with the board actually recommended at one point that ok let's get actual forms signed by the president of the association that they've received these documents they understand them they will pass this information along to the board and they will comply so we have a little cover sheet that goes along with all of our policies and procedures that i meet with them mean with them individually when they come on as a new president and association and then we have our alliance meetings twice a year that they all again anybody that's in attendance at those meetings the president and the other position represented signs off on them so they they know about it every socio has been informed and we have documentation to prove that it's just a matter of follow through whether or not they're an organized or just you know too busy whatever the case may be it's just i think biggest three documents that we require prior to the start of the season and we get minutes and things like that throughout the year but that doesn't prohibit them from playing on the fields but the three things that we ask for in advance is their rosters their coaches with their room you know the problem and i agree but the problem that we have there too is especially with the outdoor sports they do it anyway well i would also ask you know most of these sports are it entirely free people are playing to participate at parents are paying for the kids to participate whether it's getting uniforms or whatever they have to do if parents have committed money and then you tell the kids they can play and i'm not saying we shouldn't but i'm just there's there's some million repercussions but if you know if people know that these policies in place maybe that will be part of the impetus to be more responsive to the three things that you need  i that could be something but i think if we put the policy in place and then you go ahead and say look this policies in place come and see me before you know maybe do kind of a combination you know so i'd like to make a motion that we approve the non projects and this this is one way to hear we're they have to be thirty percent contribution of the cost of the project to to me this seems almost like an operational issue i mean for now that we've had the discussion about possibly naming different amenities i think that you do need a policy to guide it whether it's using historical or whether it's choosing people or if somebody wants to make a donation on behalf of building something that i'd like to be named after them so i think in some ways this is basically you know an operational issue we should create a policy for the event that we have this  forward that's that's my opinion i think it's kind of like housekeeping in some respects i agree with mr merrill because ultimately we have the final say anyway right the ultimate ultimately if like triple x dot com wanted to come in here and have finally going into new business really understand we had two things it would be occurring next week one is i thought a workshop to talk about deals on wheels and executive session me yes it's a building with a then this proceeding that we'd be talking about for rolling hills would have to be a public session yes this would go first which ordinance number my daughter that to an offhand i c here braeburn is the road going up to the top of the screen mcmurray is running left and right there was i guess there's been some concerns complaints some potential issues regarding people making the illegal left turns in and out at this intersection it's a it's sign for right in right out only it has a channel izing island at the bottom of the intersection with mcmurray road weeks we went out and took a look i pulled the penned p plans for  intersection when it was originally constructed one of the first things i noticed as was that the island wasn't quite constructed properly to what was on the plant the plans of pending review and approve they were kind of vague the  dimensions weren't exact on the plan and i think it originally called for somewhere between a six and eight foot shoulder in front of that island and really right now it's more like a twelve the thirteen foot shorter so that island sitting way for the back than it should be and you know i would argue that the the island should only be four foot off mcmurry road so there's a large space created there and because that island a little smaller than than i would then i think it should be people would be it's a little too easy for people to make that run around that island making projects but compared to the grand scheme of all the projects they have something like this warrant say when you call me when you're done and i'll show up and i'll take a look at it that's that's the extent usually sparking for something at this level  no that's fine please ask questions while making a presentation that is not a problem so myself and a colleague of mine we're both out there at different times making some observations taking measurements and things like that and while we're standing there were noticing people you know not it's not like every car but you know when you're standing up there for an hour and a half and you see two people do it that's telling you something's going on i think one of the things that myself and my colleague we were out in the morning to morning hours it wasn't rush hour or anything like that it did seem to  be the look like contractor vehicles truth i mean it was pickup trucks and things like that they didn't have names on it or anything but so we haven't made detailed observations of traffic all day but looking at the way that the island's laid out and just being out there for a few hours taking a look at it you could see that it's easy to make these left turns into now so what we wanted to do is we wanted to take a look at some options what can we do to try to engineer to reinforce what we're trying to do there and have people write in right out only paint markings just kind of what you see in the picture they're doubling up on some of the signs and then also putting a double yellow line going up the street there from the island so people are coming down they can see i'm supposed to be on this side of the road not that side of the road i mean theoretically i guess somebody could say i didn't really understand is that island so small i thought i could do this i thought i could do that i think was more paint marking some more signs lower cost type improvements to get the message out there also recommend since we did notice it was contractor types up there maybe getting out there and talking to some of these contractors letting them know that this has been a problem that people have complained i don't like you said we didn't put a camera out there that is one option we could do we have these traffic cameras that can sit there l resolution they look down and they can actually count cars we can actually get a number if we decide to do something here i can put a camera up before we can count how many cars are making the illegal laughs we can do something like this with the signs in the paint put the camera back out a month or two after it's installed it makes any difference and see if a low cost approach like this makes a difference also the other thing is you know put the signs out send the police out a couple days see if we get the message across that way and go for the low cost the start reconstructing that island that's where you start getting into bigger cost and now you're talking twenty thirty thousand dollars for making the island bigger and you could put medians out on mcmurry road in front of those channelized pieces where you still have the other street across the street tanglewood could still be full access but you put little medians in front of the right and right out part then you start getting into a lot of money so that's why initially i thought let's come with some sign some paint markings  some education of who's up there and who's maybe violating this and then potentially someone spot and force me to try to reinforce that a couple of the i mean i and i depends on what works dealing with the road program i don't know if you have any signed contracts or paint programs for this season if you have any if you don't have anything you know you'll be paying you became price basically on one side you know my name's doug smith and i'm a resident of drive i notice in the report well first of all appreciate the work on this that would make that intersection unique in two ways it would be the ugliest intersection  burn drive and they have the forms would like it to be a full access my understanding is this is the only limited access road we have on in mcmurtrie and so our question is are my question is any how why is that and if we're going to go through the expense of phase one and he says in his report to deface one doesn't work we'll go to phase two and i think you start in one hundred thousand dollars at phase two it seems to me the better solution is just make it a full access intersection like every other intersection in mcmur coming over the hill from the top of where that light now exists coming down the hill would not necessarily be able to stop in particular in bad weather or if there was traffic it would back up if people were trying to turn left or right out of there or come out of brave burning go black up make mari coming across traffic so if it's it was a very dangerous situation at the time and that's one of the reasons that we did not want it to go out in the first place and then it mandated that it only be right in a left and a right out from my perspective personally i think that to do something like that if you want to make that access in there now you're going to need another traffic light because personally i don't see how you're going to be able to accommodate people stopping and turning in and that's just my perspective not you know better and i was going to say i would interject and i remember reviewing this a number of years ago the full access would require turn lanes because the number of cars on mcmurry it like you said during rush hour is very high the number of people who would want to turn left into the into the development there would be high enough that it would warrant turn lanes and that's when the developer said well i'm not going to do runways and traffic lights because quite frankly if we do turn lanes i mean i mean turn lanes conservatively is probably a two hundred fifty thousand or project on mcmurray road  fully built those then now the project goes from going through a couple thousand dollars worth of signs to two hundred fifty thousand dollars for a turn two hundred thousand dollars worth of traffic lights and now you're talking you old son you have a half million dollar project going to help me understand if there are  crossovers all the way out here but doesn't go around telling people hey we're going to shut down every side street because it retroactively means you know we're talking about a change of you want to go in for a change for something new or something proposed a with issues right now at valley broken be about in that op ed on the other end be about and where it goes over to talks in there when we're looking at the volume of traffic and the fact that it gets backed up you know with a light up at that intersection and they're trying to decide whether to retrofit around a roundabout or a traffic light at be in valley because of the traffic with that never existed before we got stop signs because it was an issue so it's kind of part of the problem is that as as the development continues and things change you have to start ramping up how you manage and i think when this first started years ago as mr burke was that we just thought maybe it would be better not to go out there at all and that the developer requested the i know another concern that i think ms duigan one of the residents of braverman one of the first ones to bring this to your attention in a meeting couple months ago was the of the school kids on the right and when the bus was coming under for a call that it always unobserved  we were out in the summer so not one time school that is a concern i asked about that question because i know that the people on timberlake their children are picked up at the edge of the road too and because that's also a quarter i mean that's  get up there and turn around and i don't know what the status i would imagine as the number of children increases in the plan the school district might have to look at how better to do that whether it's go up and make the loop and i think the other issue we have to consider as far as making that and all open intersection is there's no question once the rolling hills properties develop whether it's alternately a new high school or a residential development there is no question that if we were to open that up  to support what doug smith said i don't think there's one resident in our whole development that is happy with the situation and you know we're all in a new development and we love it here but it's the one thing that drives pretty much all crazy  there is one other thing no one has talked about that i would like to just briefly mention and that's the fact that when we are getting deliveries or there are people coming to visit braeburn so new that a lot of times people don't have a there and they don't know where to go so what happens is g p s or those things and then they see the sinuses you can't turn they go up to the hill where the light is and they see the center church road on the right they think that center church is on the left however it's not it's a home there and there's a turning point and the turning lane is for the homes driveway i don't know how many times people have said to me almost to the driveway to turn in the driveway when they come out of the driveway now they are at the blind spot at the top of the home and that lane is coming off more than one of our relatives who have almost gotten a very bad accident there and it's very concerning it really is it's very concerning it's not an ideal situation at all all of us are very spurge and happy and we just feel that the having full access you my name is joshua horrid resident braver to add to tina's comments there one consideration i would like you to think about respectfully is that the development is still going on and we're we're going to double the number of homes that are there and if you force traffic to center church there's a couple of problems that i first see one that turned under center churches very shortly after this stoplight so that even though there is a turn lane i think that will start to back up and cause some issues there additionally coming out of club view drive which is our current entrance way biassed that if we do continue to restrict access there that we change the way were able to view center church coming out of that road because it's very problematic there's a huge tree there the road dips down as well so you can see traffic coming up now there's going to be more traffic coming there so we've got to find a better solution either way and i respect your decision on whatever it is but i would like some consideration as to what we're what we're dealing with right now you and right that it's it is very difficult so i can see why that would be definitely something we should try to figure out thank you signage thing that's supposed to be our and trends and i know you want all the safety things and i do too and censure you know i really don't think that it's going to make a difference a hell of beans a difference if you have eliminate some of this law going to him why i went out whether the white house whether in painting some of the lines where identifying the island a little bit better would be something i might like because of the kids standing there just to call attention to it i don't know whether that's something you know the fact that the kids are standing up there with you know the white lie line so that people are realize and they can't just cut across their i mean i don't know  will amend my emotion is i will move that we approve phase one of the signing signing and pavement markings proposal with the condition that prior to any of the any of the portions of that policy being implemented we place a camera at that intersection monitor traffic for ten days after the sign pavan markings are implemented put a camera out there for ten more days after the work and see if any difference in traffic has occurred and with the understanding that if the if it is not gotten any better we will revisit the issue and potentially remove the signs if we put up because of the signs aren't going to do anything to fix previously made as well as i'm all amendments and supplements there too and i will propose the following motion i move that we have proof phase one of the proposal regarding signing and pavement markings that prior to any of the signs or pavement markings monday would be labor day tuesday monitor traffic for three days then once the signage and payment markings are installed to the once a put that camera at the intersection and monitor traffic for  three week days to see whether there has been any decrease in the illegal left turns at the intersection i'll second that and i would also add then that if the homeowners in the community want to come back before council and ask us to remove the signs we will remove the signs that have been placed as a result of this motion and we will consider that if the results of the cameras prove that the legal left turns have not reduced is not that good i mean you could tell what kind of car it is the color but you really can't be it'll be up and pointing down it's not really it's like thirty feet near looking down on the intersection of you've got a better idea my concern is that if we put these   i would give us with more flexibility to go later in the month because i know initially some of the traffic patterns for school are different because there's a restriction on parking children off of the bus right there at that intersection so that they have to cross mcmurry road the school district concerned about thought at all residents coming back to us to ask for the science to be removed obviously they can always do that we will have the empirical data from the camera which will tell us whether or not these placement of the sign in the paper markings will have had any impact the number of illegal left turn so i will restate my motion simplifying it to state and move that we have proof h one of the proposal regarding signage and pavement markings under the condition that a camera will be placed at the intersection for three week days prior to the signs and payment markings being implemented and then for a period of three days after the signs and paving markings are implemented  markings it's specially designed for what they're doing i think previously it was a different application i guess want to be a little longer lasting a little more noticeable i think is the right word compared to the other transverse rumble strips the summary of the three months which you see there in front of you bids opened on the seventh seeds some items were removed prior to the demolition it's not the militia the board has selected a red roof for the ample theater  board is also reviewed various trash receptacles as well to be transitioned in over the next several years to the park looked at a number of options there baseball has a number of ongoing projects working with parks and rec and food few remaining issues that need to be resolved on current projects before beginning any new ones coaching we've had an individual is no longer permitted to very nice to see we had an eagle scout hall caution who proposed building a little free libraries at four sites in the park and it true entrances for those little again you should have the information on that the free books to be read at the various locations so that was that was the approved by the board we had our annual lines thinner a little disappointed at the turnout again benet as a guest speaker did a great job for us it was nice of him to volunteer they recognize that and we've talked about some ways to try to improve things for the brim prove attendance for two thousand and seventeen going forward the noncompliance policy already talked about that my only thing there would be for council to recommend what they're looking for in addition to what we proposed so that we could take it back to the board and make adjustments to the by laws of the parks and record recommended a few changes to our existing byelaws see that's on the agenda as well for later from them on torture all consulate that are made meeting to present a campaign to encourage owners to pick up after their dogs along the trail several sign designs that would be posted on a trial  recommended that we reinstate him and so we did softball we were also informed of it incidentally during a game that involved the thomas youth league where the police were actually called by one of the participants that was reported however there was no criminal activity that took place or board decided to send a letter about sportsmanship to both groups of obviously no board members were there and didn't see the incident ation is hearsay naming rights policy the only thing i would mention on that that we did look at several different policies made adjustments with that one closely mirror moon townships with a few looking at that was brought to us by resident by fair play for travel slash tournaments and that's obviously something  most organizations probably done it here too in their travel or tournament teams and i think it's very difficult to adhere to adhere to that you know our or our policy is that we that it's for the actual recreation season and travel in the tournament season is over and above i think that's probably the main sticking point i mean i know as a coach and board member for sports organizations there's always an attempt to get kids in and get in the place of course don't want you know a kid walking away because he didn't play or hardly hardly played in the game but you know when they get in the championship situations that coach everybody gets an opportunity to play different positions same amount of time to get the experience and to learn about the game the intent of the travel programs in the tournament programs is competitive and  having those kinds of qualifications on a travel or a tournaments team would would put them behind every other travel and tournaments team that they would be playing they do go out there and they play their best players it's  kind of like a preparation for school activity because that's what the schools do when you go into a school program and they don't get fair playing time and not everybody gets to play every position so that's that's the difference between the two programs  that's not something that the parks and recreation has decided that's just the way youth sports has gone but the way our bylaws are written it doesn't distinguish between the two many of the people here may know there's but i don't if you're on a recreational team is it a given that you're there on a travel timorese that is secondary commitment to a secondary cash payout it depends on the association like soccer if you're going to be on a travel team but they need a roster of x number of people player that's why they bring people on it may potentially not play at all and they get that i mean there are benefits to the players that get to be on a travel team that may not get to play in the games because they get to make it a practice with those players i mean there is a benefit you know but you have to know that you may not get playing time if you're on those teams that's at least that's how young you travel teams start actually starting i'm going to vote no because i do feel that as direct sport and i realize he's a rock the kids are still learning the game and i think at some point in time you know they still need a chance to get out there and play typically would those folks have paid for like michelle said you know these kids the the write the play on these travel teams through coach selection or trials or what have you and  weather can be a problem try to stir early to allow us to get some work done before the weather gets too hot to concrete starts causing some problems for us  last wednesday for a storm sewer contract that involves five smaller projects throughout the township some of the projects involve removal and replacement of existing deteriorating corrugated metal pipes some of the projects involve thousand dollars we worked with finishes several times over the past couple years with success on the projects so i'm going to recommend that we walk one final thing the money from this to fund this recommendation would be toward the contract in the amount of ninety seven thousand nine hundred thirty six dollars or ninety five cents  we talked about this at the workshop there would be a two day after labor day at the middle school and one question we did have one arm standing is council wants us to put so the notice out to our materials for the pipe replacing a larger pipe on the discounted property we based on our estimated cost we determined got number would be six thousand as opposed to ten  tech traffic signals and talk back and forth to each other to be part of that program and like michael said the way you do it if you reapply for the grant next year with the eighty twenty match the municipality can actually run the project from beginning to end itself instead of like michael said right now the program is and not have the money and then at some point the project will happen and you have no control over the design the cost the building