good afternoon i would like at this time the meeting of the housing human services transportation we're now come to order it is about two or one p m on thursday december seventeenth twenty fift before we begin maglis requests that we all turn off or silence our cell phones or other noisemaking devices at this time i'd like to introduce our committee members i'm your committee chair  will an excuse for today's meeting as vice chair that is by some but with us today as council member bob carroll good afternoon council member us today from the housing administration representatives there rect of housing and human concerns caroline men and alameda department of housing and human concerns and also with us is mr from the department of management keith regan our deputy ard our director for department of management and probably who will be join will be our budget director as well possibly represented from the department of planning today we're very fortunate to have with us a very important resource person i'd like introduce him at this time and from committee staff thank you renay yap committee secretary and legislative attorney thank you carla carla and acosta members we have two items on the agenda today so we're going to start with public testimony to thank you for the district office is  what we're going to thank you for individuals who will be testifying in the chamber please sign up at the desk located in the eight floor lobby just outside the chamber door if you will be testifying from the remote testimony locations supplied on the meeting agenda please sign up with the consul staff at such location testimony will be limited to the items listed on the agenda to be pursuant to the rules of the consul each testify or will be allowed to testify for up to three minutes per item with one minute to conclude if requested members as h h t dash two six building affordable homes the committee is in receipt of county communications fifteen dash two five two from council member myself relating to the matter of building affordable homes the committee may receive our presentation from the housing finance and development corporation and other resource people the committee may discuss ways in which the county may facilitate the construction of affordable homes for purposes or grants including financing options the committee may also consider the filing of county communication fifteen dash two five two and other related action today we will receive a presentation from craig he right executive director a housing finance and development corporation copies of d c dated yesterday following copy the copy of the presentation is also a copy of a handout for mr here i related to the multi family tax subsidy project an a summary of affairs committee of the hawaii association of realtors chair of the state rental housing trust fund commission ex official member of the board of directors of the housing and community development  hawaii the predecessor agency of h h f d c chair of the state tax review commission chair of the board of directors of the tax foundation of hawaii and chair of the professional ethics committee of the  from the wharton school of the university of pennsylvania a jersey doctor from the university of california hastings college of law and a master's of law in taxation from new york university he is a british sorry the mission of the h h of the sea is to increase and preserve the supply of workforce in affordable housing statewide by providing leadership tools and resources to facilitate housing development  the development or preservation of six thousand eight hundred seven housing units five thousand and seven rental units at sixty percent and below the area median income thirteen hundred foresail units from eighty to one hundred forty percent of the area median approximately forty eight hundred units for moderate income families to facilitate the development and preservation of affordable and workforce housing h h if d c has various tools and resources our development tools he may develop on behalf of the state or with an eligible developer or may assist under government assistance program in the development of housing projects which are exempt from statutes ordinances charter provisions and rules of any governmental agency relating to planning zoning construction standards for subdivisions development and improvement of land and construction of units there on i don't believe that we've done a tool one h project firm involved with the newly constructed or moderately or substantially rehabilitated project meeting a specific income limit and eligibility criteria we also have the doling unit revolving fund which may be used for the act was it real property development and construction of residential commercial and industrial properties and interim loans to developers are financing tools include who may multi family bonds which typically go with low income housing tax credits the would be called the four percent low income housing tax credits as opposed to the more competitive nine percent low income housing tax  credits we have the rental housing revolving fun which provides equity gap financing by way of low interest loans to qualified owners and developers for the film and construction acquisition or preservation mali and we administer the federal mortgage credit certificate program statewide for first time homebuyers it's a down payment form down payment assistance our plans for forty four unit affordable family rental project in prince hill for families that are below sixty percent of the area median income and the right or rights camp senior house project is a plans include three thousand three hundred thirty six units one of these is the recently started couple a loft project which kopple a which  when fully completed will in provide four hundred ninety nine family rental units three three hundred seventy five of the units are just faded to be completed by the end of fiscal year two thousand and eighteen one hundred of these units will be affordable to families at or below eighty percent of the area median income and two hundred units will be at or below one hundred forty percent of the area median income one hundred ninety nine units will be a market  rents from the school year twenty nineteen through twenty twenty one two thousand six hundred ninety four units are projected to be developed given our current resource level and production history in addition h h if he she intends to seek out development partners to add housing production to this projection through mix use development on state land and housing that is affordable in within walking distance of planned tax credit work project owner propose proposes a project to a state housing agency applies for and is awarded an allocation tax credits completes the project development and rents the project to low income tenets low income housing tax credit provides equity funding for the development cost of low income housing  typically a partner or partnership or member of a manager based l l c that owns the project to take a federal tax credit project the owner raises equity capital by syndicating the credit to an investor or group of investors  the amount of credit is based upon the amount awarded to the project the actual cost of the project credit rate announced by the i r s a percentage of buildings which are residential rental real property with me to the rent restricted test and minimum set asides for a low income occupancy compliance period the initial compliance period is fifteen years occasions sometimes are typically a land use restrictive agreement the regulatory agreement and the tax recapture for all past and future low income housing tax credits if the project fails to comply with the requirements of the internal revenue code section forty two including the set asides in retrospection so any time during the initial fifteen year compliance period under age or under state law  receive for the nine percent low income housing tax credits which is competitive they are allocated to each state based on population in two thousand and fifteen hawaii received three million two hundred sixty four thousand nine hundred ninety eight of these nine percent credits because the credits are taken over a ten year period this see quaid there's something around twenty five thirty million of equity for these projects that it's invested in that investors invest in for excuse me for the credits the four percent low income housing tax credits are allocated based on the use of private activity tax exempt bonds the state has an overall bond cap of approximately two hundred ninety six million boy it also has a state low income housing tax credit which is fifty percent of the federal low income housing tax credit our low income housing tax credits awarded they are warded through what is called a qualified allocation plan or q developer supply for low income housing tax credits through h h s dc's consolidated application consolidated application allows outlook and to apply for various other financing programs with one application this would include  one round typically in the first half of the year offers nine percent and four percent low income housing tax credits along with other financing programs run into typically in the latter half of the year offers four percent low income housing tax credits along with other financing programs that's because the nine percent credits are typically all awarded during the first round on applications are reviewed and scored by each if he sees finance and development staff utilizing the q a p recommendations for awarding low income housing tax credits and other financial resources are presented to the h h if d c board for approval and that's the conclusion of our powerpoint thank you will you do you all have the handouts in front of you in regards to the multifamily tax subsidy family of four which is four persons thirty percent of median income is twenty three thousand and ten dollars for a family of four in the county of mali sixty percent a median is forty six thousand and twenty dollars that's the typical am i used for low income housing tax credit projects then one hundred percent of area median income for a family of four is seventy six thousand seven hundred dollars and for a family of four hundred forty percent and median income it's one hundred seven thousand three hundred eighty dollars  on the next page the maximum tenant contribution for rents in the county amalia thirty percent area median income for studios four hundred thousand dollars for a one bedroom apartment is four hundred thirty one dollars for a two bedroom apartment five hundred eighteen dollars for a three bedroom apartment is for five hundred ninety eight dollars and for a four bedroom apartment is six hundred sixty seven dollars this is for people at their families at thirty percent of the area median income the sixty percent of area median income in the low income housing tax credit target rents are eight hundred five dollars more studio eight hundred sixty three dollars for a one bedroom one thousand and thirty six dollars for a two bedroom nine hundred ninety seven dollars for a three bedroom and one thousand one hundred twelve dollars for four bedroom apartment those numbers at one hundred percent area and median income the tenant contribution for studio would be one thousand three hundred forty two dollars for a one bedroom one thousand four hundred thirty eight dollars for two bedroom one thousand seven hundred twenty seven dollars for three bedroom one thousand nine hundred ninety five dollars for a four bedroom two thousand two hundred twenty five dollars at one hundred forty percent area meeting come the studio  contribution would be one thousand eight hundred seventy nine dollars one bedroom two thousand and fourteen dollars two bedroom two thousand four hundred eighteen dollars three bedroom two thousand seven hundred ninety three dollars and four four bedroom three thousand one hundred fifteen dollars where we're headed to is to show you where's how the subsidies stack up because obviously a thirty percent am i that will not cover the cost that will barely that may on is one thousand three hundred seventy seven units and fifty proof thirty to fifty percent it's one thousand four hundred two units sixty percent four hundred seven hundred  forty eight units eighty percent of am i one thousand three hundred thirty units hundred percent of am i one thousand eight hundred seven units one hundred twenty percent of e m i nine hundred fifty six units at one hundred forty percent of am i a hundred ninety units and then at market rates above one hundred forty percent six thousand two hundred four units or an estimate of thirteen thousand nine hundred ninety four units  estimated need our production through twenty twenty at this point is targeted at three hundred are known or and it's hopefully on track so you can see there's a fairly substantial need on the next page when we talk about the continuum of housing homelessness  services are breached services shelter permanent rentals this is typically handled by the department of human services state homeless dime and program federal emergency solutions federal support of housing and housing first zero to fifty percent of the area medium income is typically public housing deep rent subsidies shallow rent subsidies self help housing that's typically done by the h h f t c we handled low income housing tax credit as we stated earlier that whom a multi family revenue bond program the rental assistance revolving fun and land for affordable housing with respect to eighty to one hundred forty percent area median income that includes for sale housing mortgage assistance private rental housing and that's credit loan program that backstops the state low income housing tax credit program that offers the issue there was that he was wanted to make sure that  each dollar of credit state again state income tax that was given up at least fifty cents went to the project part of the problem back in two thousand and eight great recession was that people were not buying the state low income housing tax credits where they were buying in that state twenty cents on the dollar and so in still costing the state a dollar and we wanted to make sure that at least fifty cents of that was going to the projects so basically it was sort of a you can exchange your state credits for a loan at fifty percent based on fifty percent on dollars the good news is i suppose it's  programs not being highly used there is again a market for state low income housing tax credits but it is a backstop to the state low income housing tax credit program rental housing revolving fun is bas primary equity gap financing tool this year the past session the legislature appropriated forty million dollars for the rental housing revolving fun fiscal year ended june thirtieth this year half of the contains tax was thirty nine point five million so during that during the last twelve months the rental housing revolving fun d has been funded with approximately eighty million dollars the governor in his budget request is asking for seventy five million dollars for the rental housing revolving fun and we estimate that the rental housing revolving funds half of the convey interest acts for the current fiscal year will be we believe around thirty million dollars the rental  assistance revolving fund is a fund that provides below market interest rate interim construction loans for fordable rental housing projects and as of september thirty tw fifteen nine point two five million was set aside for interim construction loans who have a multifamily revenue bond program i think we just discussed it goes hand in hand with the four percent typically for rental and for sale affordable housing and then general excise tax exemptions or feelable for the construction costs and rents of affordable for rental and for still housing that meets certain income requirements the last sheet is probably actually the most important one it'll show you that the the  red starting in the left hand corner for let's say a safe family apartment unit costs four hundred thousand rental unit cost four hundred thousand dollars to construct it can be fine at six at sixty percent of am i with the nine percent low income housing tax credit it can be almost well you can be all totally financed with conventional mortgage and the nine percent own income housing tax credit if you go to a four percent low income housing tax credit you will you will need a conventional mortgage four percent low income housing tax credit plus equity gaps in equity gaps subsidy typically there are no house revolving fun at least from the state also to lots of cases like ma we affordable housing fun  thirty percent of am i with the four four percent low income housing tax credit what you'll see there is that you can carry very little mortgage there is the same amount of low income housing tax credit the four percent credit but the amount of equity get financing increases significantly and if you go to over sixty percent of the area median income in the next example even though the mortgage amount may go up the equity gap financing increases to the largest amount on the chart because the low income housing tax credit equity goes  away the higher you go in income like one hundred percent of am i the larger the mortgage you can the project can carry and therefore the equity get financing reduces and at one hundred forty percent of  only a small amount of equity get financing may be necessary for systems such as the general excise tax exemption and yes that concludes my presentation o who've applauded in what we call to you for a project and there's one project in key here that has an application in with us currently there that were of the that's the only project i think that's currently active  the whole in my whole project i think it was that application had been submitted earlier this year it seems one of the or you having problems our concerns and we are we are trying to focus on about ages have to see housing production housing need twenty fourteen to twenty twenty how do you project those needs i believe it was from a housing study we do these housing studies on c and i'm sure  ok so you're saying maui needs approximately fourteen thousand homes of all different ranges between now and two thousand and twenty well that's what yet that's what the study  subsidized i like to call it a former friend control but it's being subsidized by by us if we're putting the equity in your you know these equity to equity at financing and tax it equity into the project we expect them to be affordable at those income levels hopefully for the life of the project then so and therefore we have to monitor them to make sure that they're in compliance but is it just the income or is it  kind of get bumped out that have been here for a while or born and raised here that you can't take these places because people come over in and rent that is there any way to restrict it's things like that or i mean we've had that issue our way through i think to the extent that we're using federal money you know there it's so constitutional commerce clause kind of issue i don't think we can discriminate so you can't have a you have been a resident here for five years or something or the residency requirement but my understanding is that you know we've got to accept mr comedy you want me to bring the housing department down in response to your question at this time i would like i think the commune needs to know that if there's a mile we resident with a section that is a i want them to know it's like i want to know why they wouldn't get housing first before i mean land section eight to the recipient if they have a housing choice vulture section eight fall and you know the people who are on the mainland are very aware with regards to which projects have section eight vouchers or the possibility of transferring or porting their voucher so they get on the list early and often times they get party over the local so for me and money i expect our people to get the benefit because it's their money we completely agree and we've had the same concerns that were addressed by mr college it's just a matter of the order on the way as i think this episode worked on the list and this and  of the units that are being proposed mr wright i don't agree with it because that's not the type of growth i want where our local guys do the most suffering in the housing for others not our room so i get issues with the projections you their project the three hundred fifty units created mentioned is our estimate of their timetable for development of their project and the short answer is yes but we're trying to phase out of that business because it's probably more efficient to do it through the r an overall sense of being developed by department white homelands so we're trying to figure out where to go with that project with the h h l n to a certain extent with the county and most of my questions is sense as far as what it will eventually cost the resident to purchase or rent and so i ask you that because for me one of the options would be if you said you do have our council have been your agency to the project mean you know so i think you know i'm not sure exactly what the status of what the status of the project is on mr nama can we will bring that you know is not part of this i mean sub this is a broad subject but the chair has posted a specific item next on the agenda so if you're available mr her i would ask if you maybe can we could continue this discussion on the next item so the checking go on t i think my colleagues are career and most of the areas that i have concerns in housing is critical here in my county director of the state and i thank you for what you've brought forward you've made it even more i would put in for the rest of us have a better understanding and i know we need to partner up and do what we can to get housing built and in all segments of our community affordable is just one one area there is much more needed out of the social and until we get the surplus larger than the demand we're in a vicious cycle now we don't doesn't make a difference which county  and the project you want to look at that we were completed or two years ago it took a lot of effort to get it done and that was one of the drawbacks about doing one from some of the people that are involved may not want to come back because it took such a long time it was so arguers part of it is the permitting process in county our county so we need to share someone to blame for some one of problems too with that being we've got a wide variety of development tools and financing tools and wondering if to what degree there are limitations on combining development tools and financing tools or are there are there program realities with the low income housing tax credit nine percent program that that don't allow more than a certain number of combinations of tools that we may not be everything that we have a i mean we have a pretty good tool box thought with all due respect though i mean you know we try not to overstep our bones and work with the counties in terms of land use and sewing and things like that you know i don't like to say i don't it has  you know it did it it doesn't make sense to ect ect the longer it it makes more sense to act in cooperation and so we that's why we are trying maybe to let the county sort everybody working on it just to make it affordable and all the numbers together my question really was with respect to the financing tools whether there are any limitations on what can be brought to bear on any particular project typically and this is what kind of which combinations of those tools has been the most effective well that's why they think that last char project that will come with the you know one percent low income housing tax credits state and federal general excise tax exemptions i mean that's sort of that package it's not going to cook it's not very useful for creating two hundred unit project because that would take up probably all of the nine percent credit in the state for any given year will only produce one hundred fifty to two hundred units so if you're doing a two hundred unit project you can do it with a nine percent credit or you use up all the nine percent credit for the whole state  ut that puts it into perspective and you've mentioned that i mean you may have mentioned the reasons why reasons that you think well i think in our case we can expect to issues with leo well we had unfortunate it well so fortunate but you had issues with legally i mean that was supposed to do something and it didn't because of various lawsuits and things so we're trying to make the best of what we have there at this time that being said nothing much else has been moving either what's the timeframe coley you know they've been there for twenty some odd years and holding up i'm assuming it's a placeholder for three hundred fifty units that potentially somewhere else could be and it kind of looks like that's all that's available from maui and because you said it was done so that all we have on the books right now that we're we're actively talking to you know the administration and various people to try to find other we've never really run into a problem yet in terms of not having enough on cap for four percent projects is that allocated is there an allocation table between the so you know in our mission is housing super trying to see you know how much housing we can reasonably get out of that in the short run certainly but but yeah it's as you know it is seeded land it's questionable whether we can recover any additional infrastructure costs if we can't sell homesites she simple which is another problem because it ceded land  we are looking seriously exploring other alternatives would be h h l and with the county for possible rentals and are there any other state properties that you feel would days on building affordable homes that people can buy versus rent because right now we're pretty sure i mean this group at least from the comments that have been made throughout the term we're looking for more affordable rental versus single family homes at this point so people can at least get in because it's you know more bang for your buck on their what is your philosophy on that  i would say in the short run we would be focusing more on rentals and lower income rentals in the long run it's our agency's mission to kind of touch on each income level and from low income rentals to homeownership ok and along all the lines i mean for the whole reason for this for you being here in this item what can the county do to help with you guys i mean you know sounding like that there may be some pushback from the county or maybe you do need some help from the i don't know is there anything even least this council can do i think in the short run maybe like i just said we'd like to work with cody on increasing the production of affordable rentals for low income rentals on you know state colony land whatever's available  finance group are pretty text your vision is going to need is we're going to need this is since you your and your sister state agencies to help us have accurate records regarding leases and other  lands you know this deal on our big leases and things like that it would help our department every division if there's a way that we can get information on a timely and accurate basis that we can departments like land in natural resources our inspectors say well we found this on your property and they're totally unaware of what's happening on state property so for me he is we can work together for better communication and better use our record keeping in actual information flowing between the state in the county so i would ask for your assistance in this area that put us as both of us and to me so let me see what i can that needs a walk who are three four three point four percent whereas other neighbor islands or years at seven point nine percent of the population a wise and i point three of my was a five point zero one of the challenges that we have here is that we have lots of syria that have multiple families multiple units you know part of our r and d for the affordable housing is to start allowing people to have their own place to live so yes my question is how much of a commitment is this possible to the neighbor islands and specifically about with respect to the various programs that you have you see the limitations on the ability to move forward our projects if we c increases or not on the construction costs and then the final sil's and rental amounts that eventually the resident is going to have to deal with upon a completed project construct a project with his type of factors plea we're trying to add that is a fact well it's a factor but what happens quite literal i mean we're trying to address a severe housing shortage in a severe  shortage right now so we are expending resources maybe not at an optimum time in the construction cycle but you know nevertheless we do feel compelled to increase production at this time of those types of things that sort of thing in the short run we're we're trying to increase the production of low income rentals and that's probably where the greatest need is statewide so yes in spite of rising construction cost utilizing things like national guard to assist in the construction of units i can't speak for the governor on that i think i would say that while there's there there are issues with things on the federal side too with little you know of the davis bacon prevailing wages things like that you know that you know the president is going to talk about refugees and here i am already with costs that the feds in the state does not support this county and comes from our general fund of us type of additional services this county provides the community so for me you know i think we need to be very defer this matter thank you i would like to request a five minutes break in the committee of the rules of the council the committee and tends to discuss the status of the affordable housing project the committee may discuss the status of the project and consider ways in which the project may morning chair morning members want to wish you all happy holiday season thank you very much i'll keep my remarks brief but as you know we've been before this committee in the past in support of the department of housing and human concerns in this project affordable housing we were asked back and i just as a quick reminder we were asked back in october of two thousand and fourteen by the department to assist them from a technical standpoint to take a look at the project and to see if there was some way to reduce the overall cost for the for infrastructure just briefly as a reminder that the original project as it stood was approximately thirty three million dollars in infrastructure cost for the five phases that would be in the two thousand that was in two thousand and ten dollars but we had estimated that with the two point five percent escalation in costs in two thousand eight hundred dollars would be somewhere around forty million so at that time the department asked us to assist them because we do have some technical before we want to before we move forward that we did have a meeting on i where we kind of showed the the community the proposed rephrasing of the project and based on the meeting that we had we felt that we had some support from the community on that and so we did take that back and we did look at it and did some additional analysis and we presented that recommendation and unfortunately weren't able to get the funny because it actually was significant in terms of costs they ended up coming out to something like eight million dollars just for the of the structure so we're trying to try to find a way to make it work since having this project being since being asked to be a part of it from a technical standpoint given that you know we did have some other internal challenges within the department of housing human concerns we had a director that left him a new director that came on board graduations and welcome carol  and we also had a housing administration in spain in a straighter job which was unfortunately you know we lost that that individual passed away and but we do have a new housing administrator mr buddy el nido who's on board now and getting up to speed is an excellent resource and so once again we are looking for ways to reinvigorate and move this forward move try to find a way to move this project forward and one of the things in working with the department from a technical standpoint was you know how can we do it at least possible cost to the county and we came up with the idea actually carol guys came up with the idea of doing a request my affordable housing project and we're going to put it hopefully put it out to a bit and see what kind of interest that we have from developers out there in the community and based on that will take the next appropriate steps but from a department of management standpoint again we stand ready to support the department of housing and computer in concerns to a system from a technical standpoint if there is an engineering issues with this project or quite frankly any other project that they may have to help them with dealing with these kind of issues where they don't have maybe the technical resources in the house so chairman that's really kind of in a nutshell we stand ready to support the department and move forward actively putting together an r f p and by the beginning of next year we should have something out and we're very hopeful that a private developer will come in as mr hu i said more efficiently and we'll go here to answer any questions if you have any thank you committee members also with us if you have any questions for any of our department representatives as far as we have m but i will say a few things chairman this project is something that has been working on for decades with the approval of the project district's online i there are conditions of a the property owner needs to participate that would also lower the price of this project and for me at the end of the day it will be council belled make the determination on what we willing to finance and think interesting things with this project which are two agencies that will benefit from this project is department of education and the department of i hope you would consider that because i can tell you how in homes and do we really need help they don't have the people that i think understand what he needs to do to make this project work  understood the limitations of what we're doing and some of the things that we are going to have to work through so i'm going to ask the rector rayman as far as you understand with the council modify it a pool and its conditions and st was going through the file and it was also brought to my attention by mr cotter that there is a initial seven year time period with regards to certain things that need to be met we're about a year and a half away from from that window aside from that i think that we've met all the short term requirements that will serve letter was the main priority and that we did obtain aside from that i'm not aware of any other short term issues at this time so there is no need for a financial request to get those requirements completed your your division is able to perform to fulfill those requirements i have to i mean i would probably have to go back and reread the entire tornado requirements to provide a proper answer and i can't deliver that to you i'd have to double check and make sure cite from that one is that there's nothing else that you know well one thing i would ask you to do please because i feel that you know if we look at the zoning conditions the property should participate and you know i am happy to do our part from the legislative branch to road around the city is a condition of zoning that they are responsible for and for me part of this project entails a bypass road so i would agree with the administration we shouldn't be paying for that  have some comments if you don't mind i'd like him to respond but if you look at the presentation that they gave in july talking about a maybe alternative phase one  because we're looking for affordable rentals anyway is giving multifamily in there first so you have more people that can benefit or can even qualify for getting in there is that something that the community is change again so it's a yes i think the community is open to more rentals i think that for me still wants a sense of having the ability of home ownership for those that choose that path and distill the need from the community for certain players of other capacity where they would look at long term bid facilities or what not before and healthy coming i think our people are willing to make those right adjustments chair and that we understand the problem is it's hard for us to give the county a commitment by we don't know what is the county's commitment or when the units might happen for so for you to tell me how you can we need to buy a house if i have to wait five years and i don't know what the hell my employer to land owner is going to do is high for me to say i'm worried to commit to buy a horse the county would like to be well ok so that's the dilemma on the island uncertainty of what the owner is going to do own people so yeah i got some big problems on that island chairman i think this is one thing that is good for our mental health as a community i think it's a positive visible sign of the county's commitment to make things better on the island and so for overall i still see the merit of moving this project forward i understand them is issue money is money i'm one of those people but i think we can work it out and if we have some do unique things to the code and to the powers of council working with the ministry and i have faith in this county that we can make it happen chairman because we've done it in the past that we couldn't do it again for term i think we can be a very smart project can even be the private project for just enough unique things were to be on the street lights component whether it be adjustment in these streets for slowing down traffic by the what even many turn up mini collections within a subdivision this me thinks the project can do because it's a small in the area that those kind of things could work if we want to so you know yeah i'm on my soapbox i'm pushing this project because i think that's still the right thing to do and i'm going to work hard to convince the initiation and or hard to convince the profits of that and i think you got a copy of this presentation which shows the future d h l subdivision in the future deal we expansion you having seeing where that something that  the state is going to benefit from as mr okama says from the extension of the infrastructures there way that through all the different sources of funding then whatever that you guys can help contribute to that because that's part of our sticking point our sticking point is it's like seven or eight million dollars for this construction for a certain amount of fordable homes you know in a fairly low amount compared to you know what we can get our money's worth for in the infrastructure so those are any way you guys can help chip and on that or is there any sort of funding that we can get from that can say let me look in to that  i'd have to think a little bit about it and maybe in my case because we were state agency talked to the district legislators because they i mean it's listed as a future d h l subdivision  and deal with the expansion so obviously you'd benefit from all that infrastructure coming down the street yeah i mean you know it's a well it's you know as you may know it's not one state i think you know you've got these different silos but yes and it's more a question of trying to see how it might be done with with the county administration and also we know i've in this case i would have to see what has been successfully the in the rental or selling of the units recently regarding affordable projects within the state can you point to some of those projects if any  please here is something that we can see you know we might want to look at some of the good things that the project was able to accomplish actually there are some pretty good projects on the law that have been take a look at but i think my understanding is that dick goes back to a time when the d h h l had a fair amount of money and you were was able to front some of the infrastructure c increment thank you thank you thank you mr you write any any comments on this particular project that you see i would have to be like happy to discuss it further with good ministration and work with the council also talk to the district legislators circumstances change the economics of change from when the project was originally looked at our major concern is the cost benefit relationship and you know we're perfectly happy with redoing p if someone can come up with a partner over here can come up and is willing to take on the project and he thinks he can make money and get his money back on it where more than happy to give you the  opportunity in any anybody for that matter in my mind when we run and i and we were talking to the the the public there was there and we were giving statistics like between five and ten people to apply for the housing that's all they could line up council and okama does have a point you don't have a definite date but the seven million dollars factor for the infrastructure sees is a daunting number when you're looking at always a number of housing that we needed from our county fourteen thousand how much money are we going to commit for five to ten people versus the huge amount of demand that is here now i'm willing to commit some funding to be spent on an i we can cut the cost of the infrastructure so we were we were suggesting maybe finding another area closer to where infrastructure is so we can cut the cost if we can cut the costs and the cost benefit ratio would be much much easier to work with and much more comfortable but if the powers that be in the council and private sector think that they can run this project and they can make money off of it and they can do this project will do the r f p and anyone who can do it is more than welcome to try i suspect that when they look at the numbers of people that they will commit to actually printing the houses and the costs it has to go in to create this infrastructure they're going to really have to push up in their pencils to get it through but that's all we're asking is that so if anybody wants or want to take a shot at it go for it we don't we i cannot see it as filling out with the demand that we were told is there five to are vacant properties already there that ready to go to go and put in all this infrastructure is tying up huge resources for this community and it's not that we don't want to do affordable housing but affordable housing actually has to be semi affordable somebody pays that bill and people within the county of maui the taxpayers in the county of maui pay every penny of that bill so when we're collecting the money and we're using that money and expanding it we're we're responsible to make sure that we're spending it in a diligent manner and in the most brutal manner we can so again we make that offer in the r f p you're welcome to take it and run find a company that they have to recover all the money that you will be using it's on point and whether you consider a tax credit or cash out there's still a cost to the community in that those taxes have to be generated to be able to return study that i have goes back to two thousand he has there been a recent study from the market perspective as far as from the housing department or currently i could look and see if we have the numbers from the consolidated and annual action plans from two thousand and fifteen that can break down possibly that information does it include what we would call a market study i don't show that in any full and i are coming house and i would never exist the breakwater after hurricane eva would not be reconstructed because from a formula i think pans out center worked hard to get the support of his fellow senators and those in the house of reps of the to get funding for many projects in hawaii if it had to be on a cost benefit ratio would fail i can tell you we have worked hard on monday from where we were in a total line up of the nine districts as far as revenues in expenses we worked up to the number five position so one has worked hard to increase its revenues that we have second face previous years of asking for financial support because we knew we were going to come in for big ticket items and i've waited my turn to get that money and i've helped build these counties s it to be able to get that asked but also to help generate and when we have as we best frugally and responsibly and i'll be happy to go and explain to the people of this island why it is critical for the total counties benefit to support london at this t why do we use the word mo we not go away because we've proven time and time again we can't overcome by making good hard choices and this is something we cannot plan for and we've been planning and if there's not then we need to ding to is again single family somebody buying a house at this point i think a good compromise would be to start in order to justify that seven and a half million dollars for structures to see if we can do affordable rentals you can probably get one hundred one hundred fifty affordable rentals and seven and a half million dollars for the infrastructure will at least help start that project so i'm i'm that's what i heard anyway is that it sounds like he wants to buy something at this point is the r f p potentially for whatever works right now or is it for single family homes or multifamily condominium kind of stuff i don't know what that we're not we're not married to having to do it within the county so there are some years for single family homes or whatever works will create however the council wants to create the r f p to allow anyone who wants to to be able to construct this project to go ahead and try the numbers that we know we talked about to them we were exploring it within five to ten people who wanted to buy houses rental might be a little bit more i have no idea oh take a look at it but you can build if you build one hundred fifty homes and you only feel fifty slots you can have a real problem economically so the amount of units that you create has to be able to match the demand and the payback so it has to who are doing this project is going to have to match whatever the demand is with the ability to be in those units  and if they do their due diligence and they work with it we're perfectly happy to allow anyone who wants to the council will approve also i should say anyone going do it again we offer to the state if you want to the r f p that they're working on right now is to get a consultant to help them do the r f p for the actual project so part of the things everyone's talking about or should fall is consultant will help us to figure out the reason why they need a consultant right now is it's a daunting task to try and figure all of this out it's not simple as well this discussion so far as shown that but cigarette if i could make a technical comment on the low income housing tax credit program if you are going to be looking at low income rentals going to mostly tax credit rentals on night one of the requirements for a low income housing tax credit project is a market study to see that there is sufficient demand so thank you members any further there thank you now i just wanted to kind of follow up i understand where the administration is come from and mr okama too i mean all nine of us not that the we're all here right now but all nine of us have examples of you know seven and a half million dollars i mean in my district seven half billion dollars conserve a project that's going in there could be hundred fifty fifty one hundred homes and multiple multifamily and whatnot and mr y everybody has that and so the question is where in the line is this and these guys have been waiting since for five years looks like for right now  for that to be developed and they actually need to start doing some things because of the time lines in the conditions this member carol said so i'm at least this council member here is willing to help out if we can get a good you know a bigger number and ultimately if you put it because it's going to cost if we wait another five years is going to cost ten billion dollars to put that same stuff in there so i'm fine with doing building for the future there as long as we can get something going to to get them started and get them going on so yeah everybody's district has needs   is ins that they felt was to their advantage and this is where we are but again it is not then you know it's sure maybe even down to ten for purchasing but there's a large number that would like to get would impress health department standards but they've got no place else and just a family this willing to assist them their own family so to me we have a type of homelessness on the island that is deceiving game i hope i was a bit nice theory here earlier and is there new you want to make a comment but we're just about going to wrap up our discussion perhaps you can submit something in writing for us but can this sort of combine include if it makes any sense and hopefully the r of p that the administration is working to put out or come up with a different type of concept as well as the market studies so we can qualify for the different financings or bonding or wrong type that will make this our reality we need to move forward and i think i heard  a managing director and i think we're all in this together hopefully you know if we can get it resolved and i think that's the purpose of this agenda item thank you for coming over to assist us and of course administration thank you and the department of corporation council for your participation this is our last meeting for twenty fifteen and i want to