in the offices of the respond but the respondent is the union and the employees of the union are not the people to whom notice has to be given that's because they're the employees of allstate and and this is i know this and i know this is usually something that is you know quite routine but it's unusual where they respond is is a union and the union is and found the unfair labor practices right here on us is that they were representing people with with us right in the purpose of an order of the board is always to when there is a notice posting to inform those folks who were impacted by it and when the respondent as in this case is a union the order i'm looking right now at the order th administrative law judge issue actually and i'm going to as retain a forgive me i was not aware that there was a problem with the order and so what i'm doing right now is i'm taking a quick look at it your honor would like your help i think  itself and you look at paragraph two ok and i'm looking at the order in the proposed judgment is that correct i first want to make sure that it's consistent with the judge's decision the judge's order ok well i mean even if the judge ordered that the thing be posted correct no i just wanted to make that first hurdle that we didn't get it wrong in repeating what the judge's order was which is what the board has  found and so if we're good with that i'm certainly happy to look to the substance look ok he says reimburse with interest the employees i will state so forth and correct view says within notice to the employees of the union but not to the employees of allstate pay us you know six figures well use i believe that at the end of that paragraph to be w looking at yes it states that you know in the event during the pendency that the response was fun and hasn't gone out of business there's a duplication in mailing to the employees employed by all state so i see that wouldn't cover what your honor's concern is no and in fact it does say that if the respondent customarily communicate with its members by email then a notice would go my email the trouble is these people  i'm not members that's the whole point of the end for labor practice and and so the question becomes what what in this order provides reasonable assurance that the news is going to be given to the employees of the state and well i'm i guess i'm i'm not actually at this time in a position to correct what the judge's order is because legally what the judge has ordered what the board adopted there's been no exceptions to that and so therefore i thing is the the why would the up here and say that given what we the procedural posture of the case given that we have an order that the judge recommended as what should resolve the unfair labor practices and then we have a board decision adopting it because there are respondents employed i would thinking aloud if if the up my opponent would agree i don't think that the region would necessarily mean i can't bind anyone in my agency if there were it to to do a posting that would inform the employees of allstate who i mean many of them are getting back pay i mean that's one thing many of them are getting back pay in this order because they had dues taken from their paycheck that went to the union so they would be getting notice in effect by the terms of them getting back to how would they know they're entitled to back pay because if they don't know they're trying to back i know it may be that nobody i mean that's the purpose of the notices that they would be able to know they're supposed to get it and that we know how much  i do understand that sitting there standing there you're not able to do that the other problem is how do you get allstate to agree to posting the news in all states premises with well actually your honor that's a really that's a point that has made me go to for the issue that was in the al davis case was settled against all states right ok though i am thinking that and i don't know perhaps you  settlement and they would agree because perhaps it's already happened there is what i'm saying is perhaps in the settlement against the company which was sort of the the order here or the violation here was that the company and the company recognized the union it improperly should have recognized perhaps in settling i mean i i don't know the answer to that question that the the allstate posted at its place of business whatever its notice was that it had done something wrong which would have although it wouldn't necessarily sta that the union had done something wrong i just i just don't know and so to the extent you have any other question and i let us know what's in that settlement the only problem i would have with that is i have no idea if there's a confidentiality provision in that settlement i'm thinking that i don't know that the notice provision the company would have agreed to would necessarily have anything to do with what that union's obligation was i mean typically in these cases the order goes to the respondent notifying it's  lawyers and to use it it doesn't but here doesn't seem to work because of the nature of the parties maybe the sensible thing is for us to to check with the union right now since will be or can be altered or whether the concerns that that i'm expressing are obviated by the fact that the payment already went out or were some other measures i guess that fine your honor i guess one the one final thing that will emphasize which i think your honor said as well is that given the procedural posture and with regard to this motion i just want to make it clear that the summary enforcement is of obviously what the board's order incorporates only what the judges recommended order was and so at this point if there was to be if you thought there should be a broader order and we don't work it out we'd like the opportunity to at least brief the issue or give your honor some i o'clock i appreciate you both coming in i'm well aware that this thing is usually these kinds of things are usually just routinely centered sure but you know i mean this is like having a you know you know or you know a recall of a of a consumer product  posted in the corporate cafeteria i mean no one's going to know when the people who are supposed to be where the danger are are never going to find out right now lender stand it just sort of without knowing what the court had been interested in and knowing i was not able unfortunately i apologize to know exactly what the problem was and so this is not obvious and i for sure you're coming in and explaining at least what the difficulty is what the nature of the hurdle is we have to get over ok great and if you have any questions after my  pony let me know how i only thank you and to the extent that there's any confidentiality to the extent of there's any confidentiality problem you can always ask that something be filed  a car think i mean i take it you you had no need to object already in interpose any objections because this doesn't really require you to give notice to the an admitted pro hockey chafer the work you're welcome and the motion is granted what can i ask how can i help well they has have the refunds gone out there when they would not normally go out until this order was confirmed is it the union's intention to send out the refunds when the order is confirmed i think that the union is in a position where they can afford to do that but if they have the money they will clearly do that and if they don't under this order the employer allstate has to pay i don't know that it's under this particular order but the judge does in a footnote indicate that the settlement agreement makes the employer jointly and severally liable so your client my client would be the first entity to which the board would go to get repaid and if they didn't have the money he would be the employer i assume secondarily you're figuring that not going to have the money so the union's not going to all i can tell you your honor is berto few of us can write a check for a hundred some odd thousand dollars well they can even write the check for a much smaller amount so i can tell you that from personal experience thank you thank you and then we will hear i hope from from at least from the n l r b and in a couple weeks if that's convenient sure i mean if i don't know if you want to issue an order i can just tell you that sure we will get back to you with and in advance ok it may be an intractable problem i don't know but it would be good if you guys could try to solve the absolutely well we'll do it as soon as we can thank you