but the healthy pets healthy owners on their host dr ian socolovsky and i'd like to welcome back our special guest dr thomas levy m d j d we've had such extraordinary conversations with the doctor on a very topics the deal with health and the books that he's written that are so informative and i suggest that everybody order those books and read them it's their life changes for you as far as well most of health goes dr tom welcome back to healthy pets how healthy owners your book death by calcium was an eye opener for me and i've never been fond of calcium and i did supplement for a short period of time but i stopped and increased my magnesium because i felt something was wrong and after reading your book i just set everything home in such great detail in the do's and don'ts of the why isn't the why nots what's wrong with calcium well calcium of course is an element that's absolutely essential for normal bodily function unfortunately that particular fact is utilized as a reason for ingesting large amounts of it and the problem with that is you do need calcium to stay alive but above a certain amount which you need to stay alive starts to become highly toxic there's probably three important things in the body calcium iron and copper in these three elements are all essential for life and they're all essential for death you have mechanisms that the body uses when these elements get above a certain level to initiate what's called programmed cell death or a so the body can use these mechanisms normally but then when you take excesses of these and in particular calcium you increase the interest of the other oxidative stress level of the cells and if that stays chronic you get a malignant transformation and if it stays chronic b o s below a certain level you get any of the wide variety of chronic degenerative diseases but bottom line is as amazing or crazy as it may sound to some people who have always felt milk in calcium was their friend calcium in excess levels and it doesn't take a whole lot we'll talk about that to get to excess levels at access levels it's a primary cause of chronic degenerative disease and in fact and this was the really mind numbing study that came out in two thousand and thirteen in scandinavia they did a study on some nearly sixty thousand women over an eighteen year period and very clearly showed that the women who had the most calcium intake by both supplementation and dairy had two and a half times greater death rate than those with the lowest levels so are you saying we don't need supplementation with calcium by taking in pill form or from a quick form is that what you're saying absolutely there's no room at all for calcium supplement patients so where do we get the calcium that we do require for a healthy cell actually you get it from a balanced diet and by balanced i'm not including large amounts of dairy a balanced diet and maintaining a normal blood level of vitamin d if you maintain a normal blood level of vitamin d you will absorb the amount of cash in that you need from your diet but that does require a blood check and that's something we can discuss a bit later too but we're told to stay out of the sun and only make vitamin d from our skin being out in the sun's rays we do but it's a very small number of people who get enough sun at the proper latitude close enough to the tropics that they make a daily amount of vitamin d sufficient i mean there's a lot of tropical countries believe it or not we're a majority of the population that gets tested as vitamin d deficient and is that because they're covering themselves up or putting sunscreen on because we're being inundated with this philosophy of protecting ourselves from the sun because we're idiots and skin cancers all of those reasons this inadequate exposure inadequate sun and then most of the united states is above that parallel anyway it's very difficult in a large amount of the united states to get enough vitamin d from the sun even if you spent a large amount of time in the sun and then here in the pittsburgh area we're we're growing more than we are sunshine so it becomes very detrimental to you but what's the relationship with vitamin d and calcium vitamin d and calcium what we called natural antagonists the higher your magnesium goes the lower your calcium and vice versa ok magnesium acts as a natural calcium channel blocker you have channels in the cells that bring calcium into it and magnesium works to stop that along with some other nutrients and some prescription medications the one of the things though that confuses a lot of people the lay folks of the docs as well is the focus on calcium comes predominantly from a desire to treat older people usually women although men get it too with osteoporosis they say osteoporosis you have a severe kassim deficiency is that not true well the answer is yes but with an asterisk you have a severe chaos and deficiency in your bones but you don't have a severe calcium deficiency in the rest of your body and in fact the longer you have the osteoporosis the more calcium you've liberated from your bones that if it doesn't get excrete in the year and it gets deposited in correct not only does it deposit in actual rock like deposits in arteries and in tissues calcium which is ten thousand fold more concentrated outside the cell than inside the cell some starts to get inside the cell and then you really get your big time path ology because although calcium is essential for a healthy cell it has to be maintained in a very very tight normal range and when you get out of that normal range you ology and cellular disease very rapidly so we're talking about deposits in the heart actually these micro deposits of calcification you can see just about anywhere in the body we see them very commonly on x parts of the heart but it important point to remember is the so ca sion of calcification with the latency a study where they looked at nuclear magnetic resonance of prostate gland stay found that patients with prostate cancer twenty four of twenty five had micro calcifications and it's not just an association there's also a cause and effect because there's also cell studies that show you have increased calcium you have a lead in cell and when you take measures that pull calcium back out of that cell you can reverse that malignant cell back to a normal state or normal phenotype and that happens in the breast and the thyroid as well all the organs of the body calcium supplementation is not only associated with an increased risk of death it's associated with increased risk of death from all causes not just heart not just cancer all causes which indicates this is the changes taking place in all the cells of the body i wanted you to repeat that that's that's important for people now calcium supplement increases your chance of death from everything not just limited to one or two or three important diseases so and conversely things that block calcium uptake like magnesium like a prescription calcium channel blocker like long acting life at a pain these things decrease your chances of death from all causes so calcium appears to be an extremely important player and we're outside of this balance because we're magnesium deficient almost for sure yes so everything that you buy that is that is processed from milk to cottage cheese to to just processed food in general they fortified with calcium often they fortify it with vitamin d as well they don't fortify it with magnesium so so your my understanding is the vitamin d helps absorption of  sixteen point about the association put in calcium and vitamin d because for a long time they did a large number of studies where they thought they were showing that calcium decreases your chance of fracture but when you look at the studies you find that along with the casting they gave item indeed like it was one supplement rather than two and in point of fact when the vitamin d was below a certain level of supplementation there was no there was no protection against fractures and when the vitamin d was above a certain level of supplementation there was clear lesson fractures and in the very few studies that gave calcium by themselves there was no decrease in fracture in calcite with cows healthy i'm because they think they are i guess competing with milk and their milk substitute basically so they do the same thing calcium and vitamin d what do you do if you're a cereal eater what do you propose we put on your cereal actually that's a good point because you avoid milk that's number one however cream is predominantly fat which does not contain that much calcium actually has a lot more nutrition and if you have cereal and you put a little cream on it and if it's too thick you dilute it with a little bit of water you end up with something that not  not toxic it's healthy and it tastes better so when you speak of creamy thick just talking of heavy cream you can do either the heavy whipping cream or you can use the table cream and it just depends on consistency as to how much or how little water you might want to add with the table cream it's very easy to do that straight with a heavy whipping cream it's usually good add a little bit of water so some of us that have addictions ice cream i don't know anybody here present but some of the do that were ok as far as the calcium of on eating ice cream yet that's that's not a major exposure to couse you know awesome so good idea to augment what supplementation this milk of magnesia absolutely the what i call the big four supplements not only for calcium balance but for health in general are magnesium vitamin d vitamin k and vitamin c not necessarily in that order the magnesium is extremely important because it helps regulate calcium metabolism it helps to dissolve the preexisting calcium calcifications that you may have throughout your body and very impressively magnesium as a supplement by itself decreases all cause mortality which again points out its relationship to calcium because i'm telling you calcium inside your cells in excess is increasing your chance of all diseases and a supplement like magnesium that mobilizes and gets calcium out decreases your chance of death from all cause what type of health mean magnesium should we be taking it's not limited to one four but in general i recommend magic magnesium glycine eight that's what i use ok because glycine is also an amino acid that you can't really overdose on and is a good thing to supplement a large amounts so if you're taking several hundred milligrams of magnesium a day there's no point in not taking it with a glass and a i always say it's good when you're taking a supplement take a good  constipated i go into the reasons why they're constipated of course a lot i'm going to hear that because it makes dietary changes and so forth but take magnesium oxide for constipation issues and magnesium guy save for all the issues that you're it's an absolute must read it will benefit your health and your well being and it the nice thing about it is you read this book and you inform yourself and give yourself education and knowledge and you can pass it on to the people that are around you that you care and love it's a book about health we mentioned earlier doctor about calcium deposits and in organs and tissues and i hear of this quite often from people they end up having these hard rock like deposits in their breast tissue absolutely matter of fact one of the first times i became seriously interested in writing this book i had known a little bit about calcium toxicity for some years but in one thousand nine hundred seven the new england journal of medicine lead article basically read if i remember and can quote it correctly women with the highest bone density have the greatest incidence of breast cancer and you say well which women would have the highest bone density well they would be the ones that take the most calcium even though taking a lot of calcium increases bone density and the test that they do it's not good bone and you still fracture at the same rate but it also means that it's the women with the cast of acacias in their breast that have the breast cancer there are uncertain types of breast cancer you can diagnose breast cancer without seeing the micro counsel to cases so hand in glove one goes with the other of course these are outside of the cell deposits but as i mentioned earlier you normally have ten thousand fold more calcium outside the cells and inside the cells and when you start to get anough of an excess out that outside the cells that you form these deposits then the excess gets to the point where it overwhelms the mechanisms for allowing calcium inside the cell and you start to get an increase in calcium inside the cell and then you're an open door for just about any disease process depending on what tissues are affected the most so that the disease caused the calcium or the calcium in the cause of disease well that's why i mentioned in the previous segment the fact that yes there's a strong association but there's also evidence to show that it's cause and effect because when you take the excess calcium that's present in a malignant cell and there's always excess calcium in a malignant cell when you can take that calcium out you can make the cell either less malignant less prone to metastasis or even if you take enough calcium out you can bring it back to a normal cell so that very strongly we do go in both directions add it make it malignant take it away make it less malignant that is a pretty strong case for cause and effect yes so magnesium the best way to dissolve that calcium removing one of these deposits best way along with vitamin k which does the same thing by different mechanisms not the same way as magnesium but it will dissolve preexisting calcifications vitamin c in large amounts dissolves preexisting calcifications and getting your vitamin d into the normal range decreases calcifications and although i mention the fact that magnesium is a mando supplement will decrease your chance of death from all causes the same studies have been done for vitamin k and it shows that the same studies have been shown for vitamin c and it shows that in the same studies have been shown for vitamin d vitamin d is just unique because if you have too little you're going to get sick if you have too much you're going to get sick so it's the one supplement that i know of where it's absolutely essential that you supplement it at the correct amount and then document with a blood test that your level is somewhere between sixty and eighty nandigram prosy c so how often do you have to check for th not often i would say for someone who's never been supplementing vitamin d at all starting on between four and five thousand units of d c three a day is going to take a majority of those people and put them into that range but vitamin d goes up slow and it goes down slow because it's fat soluble so you start of the supplement best actually take your baseline take one of baseline to see just how well you're doing with the sun in your exposure and if you're already close to fifty then you should be taking five thousand if you take one or two so depending on what your starting point is supplement for about six months check it again see if you're high or low and needed jesmyn check it about another six months but at the point in time where you've been pretty much the same for two six months checks then you don't need to check it more than every year or two as long as you're doing it that routine is right i'm not sure that hatin on that particular amount so i had mine done three months ago and i'm in the sun all the time i hike all the time dr convertibles and cars and sunroofs and i had it checked and i take a sub five thousand milligrams every single day and i was low so  what's the mechanism of action that that i'm not producing enough vitamin d some people are tough to push up and i don't know that the mechanisms have been clearly identified but you just try to overwhelm that with more supplementation go up to seventy five taking ten thousand i use a day at that point or not but mediately concern me when there's absorption issues there's going to be no predicting just exactly how much you're going to need to take to get the level versus someone who's never had problems with the intestine so if you look at if somebody came to you and said i have calcium deposits in my breast or my thyroid and of course you just discuss how we deal with that h t you think it would take an average person to help the for this protocol this routine to dissolve those units well if they're doing everything right probably a couple years ok now it's interesting because they have to call the corner artery calcium score which has always been associated with increased chance of heart attack now they've shown that it's simply associated with increased chance of death from all causes because it's really a reflection of calcium deposition throughout your body point being if you can do the calcium coronary calcium test and if it's positive you have a number you can track you can see if your interventions over the course of four five six months are making your number lower down to a measurable then that tells you am i doing the right thing there are many different things you can do to modify these factors you minimize new exposure to toxins you take measures to mobilize old stores of toxins we may or may down a good chance to discuss all of these in some detail you identify and eliminate acute and old infections in your body very important and something i know that you're interested especially in you identify with blood testing abnormally know low levels of hormones and in particular estrogen and testosterone you do a clinical evaluation of thyroid function if that's low those three hormone levels testosterone men estrogen women you need to bring those into the normal range but the important thing here is not high normal range you just need to get them from abnormally low into the normal range in these to affect all cause mortality then there's very important as you know we've talked a lot about this you need to supplement not only with the big four that we talked about but you need to take enough vitamin c which is one of the big four to maintain high levels of anti oxidants in your body because that's one of your best protection mechanisms and finally you need to take prescription medicine correctly i say that what is correctly correctly is when you have a symptom or a problem that needs addressing that has not been resolved by all the other measures then it's a good idea to follow up if you still have high blood pressure you need to treat your high blood pressure if you have elevated blood sugar you still need to treat your elevated blood sugar so i'm not somebody that says don't do any mainstream medicine just do these things both areas have something to contribute  you know we call it vitamin d in fact it's a hormone not a vitamin and it's a basis for all the manufacture along with cholesterol of all the hormones in your body with our board and everything else so of  course with men the major concerns that we all have because we hear this if you're a male you're going to prostate cancer or prostate have a prostate issue never really because you're a male i don't know if i agree with that statement but my research tells me when i when i see someone of the prostate issue especially even cancer i see low testosterone low glued to thigh on high estrogen level and low vitamin b that's dest definitely a common constellation that you see with that and i think it's important for people that know a little bit about this issue to realize that although within the normal range testosterone can make a prostate cancer cell grow or proliferate also it's having the low testosterone in the first place is one of the major risk factors for developing the prostate cancer in the first place so it's very very important with thyroid estrogen and testosterone to not just say oh i'm not going to worry about it i'm not going to check it because these three things affect the basic cellular mechanisms and machinery of every cell in your body there couldn't be three things that are more involved in the functioning of every part of your body very a hundred thousand percent place they too are going to be back here with healthy pets healthy owners with dr thomas l that's why it's important to wash hands surfaces and fresh  welcome this is healthy pets healthy owners i'm your host dr edmund so casi and we're here with dr thomas levy m d j d and we were in a wonderful discussion on the last show regarding calcium and doctors book death by read we were discussing calcium and the effects of over calcification in the body and the damage that that it does and when you made associations with heart disease with cancer with thyroid disease and something develops kidney stones calcium based most of the time kidney stones are calcium based your most common kidney stone is calcium oxalate and of course having an excess of calcium is going to make any sort of situation for stone formation easier to do and easier to take place in easier to grow so yes and sometimes i kind of believe that the calcium actually  ere are probably dr tom two big things of impact a lot of people probably not this several but three big ones i want to talk about parkinson's alzheimer's osteoporosis  the cells and when you go to measures where you can decrease the intracellular oxidative stress you make these diseases less pronounced this is probably one of the mechanisms by which affective building up of glue to phiona levels inside the brain cells can lessen the symptomatology say of parkinson's disease so just like the rest of the body we had talked earlier about the studies that show that increased calcium consumption not only increases your chance of death very clear statistically but it increases your chance of death from all causes and certainly neurodegenerative diseases fall into that as well is take a large amount of calcium and you're going to take care of your bones well calcium is but one component of healthy bone and having calcium come out of your bones as it oxidizes which is what happens in osteoporosis is no different than smoke coming off of wood that's burning ok the smoke is not going to reconstitute the wood and the calcium is not going to reconstitute the bone that's a wonderful analogy you need to address bones because all of the important elements of bone the college in which is a very strong tensile strength protein the cross connections of the college in which makes things stronger later the different minerals that form the matrix in which this college in is embed it and then calcium all make good strong bones so just looking at the calcium as it's the not only the only important thing but the only significant thing to reconstitute bone is kind of silly and but what it does do in this causes a lot of confusion as well is taking a large amount of calcium makes the test that they monitor bones with is called the bone density test should be called a calcium density test it makes that tesco up a little bit and so everybody thinks well my number is better i've got healthier bones problem is a long statistical studies show that people that have increased in that test just to the council supplementation still have the same level of fracture they don't decrease arisen as a fracture so i make an analogy that taking calcium to increase your bone density test is like putting a fresh coat of white paint on a writing fence the fence looks better but it's going to break down just as quickly and so you're doing that the bone density test radiographs and they're saying this this basically false it's basically a false reading then well it's certainly a misleading reading i mean if you understand what the test is doing it's it's reflecting an appropriate measurement it's just being misinterpreted amazing thing is no one should diagnose with osteoporotic fracture is serious business ok an older person that fractures the bow has a high incidence of death within the following year ok so i'm not making light in any way of the consequences of fracture and it's largely because of the calcium supplementation that they have that increased chance of cancer in heart disease so so prescriptions like fosamax and boniva and so forth  as a dentist there's a massive massive association between necrotic degenerative bone disease in the jaw and those medications and you'll hear well it's a small percentage but lucky you if you're that part of that small percentage of the previous shows and i wanted to reinforce that so again would you give us that list of of four things that supplementation that we need to keep in balance the big ones and it's not just for us to pro sis but for general health as well our magnesium preferably in the form of glycine eight to six hundred milligrams a day vitamin k combined a scale one in k two generally try to take milligram amounts one to two milligrams a day then you have vitamin d in this is the one we talked about that needs to be adjusted with the blood level because it's really just as bad for you they have to do a little of it as it is they have too much of it so that means you've got to do it right and then vitamin c ok and except for the vitamin d the vitamin c the k and the magnesium are not only virtually non toxic they all decrease your chance of death from all causes doctors book death by telephone as is a wonderful book we only touched upon a few things that are in this book i would suggest that the audience look into this book buy it and read it it will educate you and keep you and he we were talking about john across us and you're working on a new book just about to come come out shortly the toxic to when you talk a little bit about the talks in two thousand though it's not readily available act actually in press right now so probably literally in one month to six weeks it will be out as you said it's the toxic tooth the subtitle is how a root canal could be making you sick and my co last out of new york who's a dentist an implant ologist well the title says it all because the title is not an exaggeration i always try to title my book so that somebody can see a large amount of the truth just in the title like we saw in death by calcium but the nature of the root canal procedure is that it cores out the nerve in the blood supply and basically without being gli swallow it inside your mouth because it's no longer the same living structure that it was before you took out the core inside of it but more importantly when you take out the nerve and the pulp in the blood supply and the connective tissue and everything that's inside that pulp you take away the physical way in which immune cells can deal with infections or toxins the immune cells the immune system is not something magical it's not something that is magically make your infections goes away it's something that needs to physically migrate and get to wherever an infection or a pathogen or an excess toxin presence is present and if it can't it can't do the job so because of this through the work of a brilliant man by the name of dr boyd haley a ph d formerly of the university of professor the chairman there w some years back when dr huggins the denis we had mentioned earlier and he analyzed over five thousand consecutive extracted root canal treated teeth one hundred percent of those teeth enormously potent toxins inside them some of them when tested against different enzymes vital to cellular metabolism in the body were up to a thousand fold more toxic than botulinum toxin which right now  modern medicine thinks is the most toxic substance known to man and for anybody that says oh well anything that comes out of your mouth is going to be infected and toxic dr haley also checked numerous teeth that were just and so people could get their braces and grow in the spaces so basically normal teeth but they had to be removed none of those teeth showed any toxins so this was clearly related to the what i call fa flawed mechanism of the root canal procedure and as the book goes into great detail over the last four to five years an enormous amount of literature has supported what a lot of us has known about the t when the when the procedure is finished you have an infected tooth and it will only evolve over time and so the the protocol is to retreat to to some other words open the tooth up remove the packing material that fills the to the see evidence of an abscess exactly right and so you have to go in and retrain again and then ultimately you may buy some time and most likely that two thirds of coming out anyway and then we have the issue with with a now a balloon space inside your jaw that's that's infected so how do we deal with that well once there's a clear abscess well first of all obviously everything i'm talking about i would never advise someone to get a root canal procedure in the first place i mean if if they have a painful tooth and it's infected it should be properly extracted and then any of the number of different things we've talked about for restoration of that space but if the root canal has been done  and there's evidence of a space well everything this done on a person should be their choice ok so i'm not telling everybody go and get all your root canals but i am telling everybody go  out educate yourself and root canals and decide for yourself whether you want this source of toxicity in your body twenty four seven and if so then you need to proceed to find a dentist who could help you out and getting welcome back to health it has helped the owners on your house doctor and so koski and right before break we were talking with dr levy about toxic to his new book that's coming out dr chronic disease is an issue  disease a degenerative someone that's in that state what protocols would you advised that they can implement to reverse that state of chronic disease while i have basically a six prong approach number one that focuses around new toxins coming into your body every day that of course is represented strongly by root canals dental toxicity and other sources of toxins so you need to identify ongoing toxin exposures and address those number two is acute and chronic infections pretty easy if you have an acute infection you know what's going on there that needs to be addressed chronic infections can be a lot more difficult to deal with there's a lot of different things chronic hepatitis lyme things like that there's also a colt infections and a lot of people aren't aware about aware of such as chronically infected tonsils people that have had root canals for a long period of time get the root canals taken out and the tonsils even though they might look good on the outside are often filled with pus they've just really been overwhelmed by the period of time they've been exposed to the excess pathogens i would never advise getting tonsils taken out as a in significant procedure it's a big deal when you're an adult but i would say for someone who's going through an overall protocol if you're not getting the response that you want to see with everything else keep this thought in mind i had my tonsils out because i was having problems not with my tonsils but other things that i thought were related and lo and behold the surgeon said they were filled with pus when they pulled them out and you were an adult there are no this is a couple years ago yes number three is to address toxins stores ok you have new toxins coming in but as we get older we have more and more toxins build up an artist shoes and there's a wide variety of key leaders as a wide variety of natural agents i would say something that doesn't get used enough that's very good for mobiliz toxins without having to get into prescription key later years or even nutrient key leaders is a regular heavy sweating as in the far infrared sun you get a y braff toxins coming out in that  manner number four as we talked about briefly earlier is try to bring into the low to mid normal range clearly abnormally low levels of testosterone for the men estrogen for the women and thyroid f either sex number five we've talked about a lot too and that's getting your supplements in balance particularly high levels of anti oxidants and the important magnesium vitamin c vitamin k in vitamin d ok also in the course of supplements very important to avoid calcium supplement taishan iron supplement for the ladies that might be concerned when i say iron iron should only be supplemented if you have a documented iron deficiency anemia if you don't have an iron deficiency anemia do not supplement iron because it's very easy to push it into toxic levels and cause a wide variety of problems and then lastly as we discussed a little bit earlier too is the appropriate use of prescription medicine i don't want anybody watching this or reading my books to think i've thrown mainstream medicine in the garbage can and i'm just interested in everything this that mainstream far from it mainstream medicine has a lot of good stuff and a lot of garbage quote unquote alternative or integrative medicine has a lot of good stuff and a lot of garbage and it's up to you or up to the practitioner to scientifically weigh everything in take out of it what you need the most and in the case of prescription medicine if you've done everything i've talked about and you still have high blood pressure it needs to be treated if you're having still having joint pain it's good to have analgesics if you're still having migraine headaches whatever the situation is do reluctant to use a prescription medication if your other interventions haven't worked for you i would i would say that it's very difficult to find someone who's integrating  traditional what we call traditional medicine and homeopathy or natural type medicine very difficult to find someone like that what you see and i found it and in my own personal circumstance you have your physician not only does want to hear or know or do what he's been taught to do or she's been taught to do natural paths aren't plentiful anywhere so when you when you look at books like the ones you have written that's my calcium and all the other ones that we that we sell on the show over the series you've integrated the medical side of it the traditional side and you integrated the natural side to it and you did it in terms of the lay person the non medical person can understand and i think it's extremely important for that to be said because there's been a lot of knowledge passed on in these books and a lot of knowledge that the average person can pick up and then apply to the well being are there any organizations that you're aware of we can find someone with your son like yourself that has a medical degree and then hasn't the knowledge and the education with the natural stuff right now the best resources that i know of or a cam the american college for the advancement of medicine that's a cam dot org a c m dot org a more generalized but reasonably overall integrative type of society is da for in the anti aging i think their world health dot net ok we have orthomolecular medicine society  orthomolecular dot com or dot org all of these are a growing organizations with increasing numbers often of traditionally trained physicians and health care practitioners but ones that are questioning the status quo and are looking for other things to bring into their practices among your peers do you see this transitioning from just traditional allopathy medicine to the in the gratian of natural medicine increasing yes yes it's increasing not rapidly but it is increasing i suspect and this is obviously strictly off the top of my head prediction based on what i've seeing but i think probably within another sixty seventy years we might see something that approaches a merging of disciplines and not so much because we have a they don't have but we have economic answers that they don't have and ultimately governments are going to have to respond to the economic pressures of delivering health care and right now health care is bankrupting everybody if vitamin c were used in all its capacity and glory i can tell you i feel no question about it it could eliminate the need for thirty forty percent of pharmaceuticals as we know it obviously anybody knows how much money the pharmaceuticals make and they know the pressure that would be brought to bear but down the road when the bill just simply cannot be paid anymore i think that pressure might bring us where we want to go unfortunately not just purely motivated but that's fine as long as we eventually arrive there toxic to what's next wow that's a good question i usually well we're doing a lot of our own research on vitamin c right now at the riordan clinic in wichita kansas we're starting up something called the vitamin c institute that we're going to be focusing on doing some primary research not just on vitamin c but on anti oxidants ok setting up educational programs not only in the states but around the world hopefully setting up our own a journal call it ascorbate and doing our best to build a good basic core of information that that there's not a lot of information out there in vitamin c already but the type of studies we're talking about can answer a lot of the questions that allopathy medicine is answering when they say well what about this how do you prove this we're going to prove it and you do an extraordinary job when  sunday talk the response that i received from people was an extraordinary and what it tells me people are waking up and they're searching for people and knowledge like yourself an extraordinary job i want to take  from for coming clear across the country to our home and passing on the information that he has for education for your health and your wellbeing doc thank you so much i want to extend an invitation any time you want to come this way you're welcome my pleasure to have be able to thank you and i'm excited to read the read the talk when it comes out and can't wait for the next because i know you're working on something else