just about to retire they were forcibly they were forced out of their home by croats and they lost everything that they had accumulated over sixty six years now  fundamental mistakes that the government has made in this case are first the government states in its response that the evidence shows that petitioners were never persecuted in the past this is incorrect the government of the petitions the petitioners testimony which extended that they were not physically or threatened or harmed before nine hundred ninety five but in july nine hundred ninety five across descended upon their village which was mostly bosnian serb and in an effort to ethnically cleanse that village they forced this family out of their home the sisters had ten minutes together their things their belongings their were able to take two bags of peace and they never return to their home now this is after a lifetime of living in that same community they lived their family had lived in that home for one hundred years which was in the historical landmark because the british and you're no longer claiming that to be a streamlining of the messages appeal constitutes a violation of due process  they weren't singled out there wasn't any evidence of personalized persecution they were like many europeans during the world war this place persons by bombing but they weren't persecuted for their political opinions individually were well your honor that is my second problem with the government's position the government says that these individuals were displaced this place is not the appropriate word here displaced or displacement happens to a population when supposed to warring factions kannan and the individuals caught in the middle have to leave in order to flee for safety and this case one faction specifically targeted se serbs that's true all serbs based upon their ethnicity which is a ground one of the five grounds for saddam doesn't go to cases require individual ised persecution to qualify under the persecution branch of the persecution or well founded fear i would disagree i think that a faith based upon an ethnicity that would be sufficient and appropriate analogy i think is let's suppose a jewish couple had fled nazi germany because they were forced from their homes prior to being placed into a concentration camp their persecution their fleeing from the home was a direct result of the nazis ethnically cleansing and religiously cleansing those exactly who was talking about persecution your position is that individual as persecution is not a requirement so i don't like the persecuted because of their membership in the ethnic group he was given a very good example of your people fleeing the nazis that would be sufficient then yes you're saying that's specifically that say that but there are many cases which state that you do not have to you do not have to suffer and and let's say there were different tribes in the country that had been war trees and that one of the tribes got into power in the government and decided to do an ethnic cleansing of the other civil strife in a civil war and just people are caught in the middle of it or or at risk from it it's clear that that isn't persecution but you're saying if they're the target of of a force in the country that governmental force they can be strong now this is not just three world war two citizens of london trying to get political asylum in the united states country they were two separate countries it's not as if the persecution occurred within the same country under the same government for control of a second it wasn't that and that example isn't specifically based on membership in a particular social group or ethnicity just the fact that they may be politically opposed to the naturist so i mean of the distinctions i can draw for that let me ask you in the time that we make you only have a couple of minutes left why can't these folks now assuming they were per humanitarian considerations you have to examine the person's family their age and their health this couple was set to retire and they have lost everything because of their ethnicity they were close to facing death had they not been lucky enough to flee and for that reason we think that it would be inhumane to return them now we think those two primary mistakes by the government that i've outlined today are compelling reasons which warrant reversal i have a minute and twenty laps to say that for rebuttal unless you have another question the west african country whose lost power and their historical opponents are in power if someone's a target and the whole group could be wiped out explain to me the government know the people who remained in the areas where the majority ethnic group was there is and controlled would not be the lines were moving around so quickly between ninety five and ninety seven now i'm not arguing that all the persons who were forced out of bosnia are eligible for release it doesn't mean that they all come to the united states either as is evident in this record the son of this family used to work for the red cross and the red cross brought him to canada and he was able to receive refugee status in canada where he still is today i'm saying that the person to naked to our shores and who discrimination as opposed to persecution we believe that these hurt my clients have specifically shown that they were that they feared persecution and that it would be inhumane to return them today