client applications in a wireless communication environment are requesting location information for a particular wireless communications device from a provider of panel of the board decided in this case is indistinguishable from what your honor just said you know that basically everything is a financial product or service and it also reads out you know i keep coming back to this it reads out both used in and practice administration or management which are important parts of the on like a p g are you know i and of course the different burdens and different decision maker apply compared to district court review so if congress is going to create something just powerful there's a tradeoff that you tradeoffs are it's time limited to eight years and it's limited only to practice administration or management of cover of a financial product or service and that's why it's so important for the court having concluded that this is part of the judicially reviewable final written decision to enforce it here and to tell the board that we would still submit that you know as in part three of the dissent in verse that this is so in excess that it still would not be from review because you know this shall we say extra hard to prohibit judicial review of something that is think that that's that is not going to change of course if the supreme court said something extraordinarily broad and i'm sure we can see that twenty a j let us talk about what the import of that decision was i'd be happy to answer any more questions about the definition i could say of just a few directed and it solves a fundamental problem of privacy this is listed right in column one of the specification a problem of privacy that has that is specific to wireless users who are all the time generating little electronic bread getting there where they are located that creates a new privacy problem and this is an improvement in the way networks work because it allows subscribers to understand that their information is being held at privately if except to the extent that they wish to have it disseminated for some useful and valuable purpose we think that that is not directed to an abstract idea and even if it were it would be a pattern here if you were to rest on something sufficiently i may please the court i would suggest that this patent the some five to patent suits in the sweet spot for the type of patent that congress was concerned about what it mission and brought into being this transitional program under section eighteen its patents that issued in the late one nine hundred ninety s into thousands that are directed to point to me any language in  any representative claim that talks about any kind of financial service or financial information or anything remotely close to what we found to be that in our other cases i think that  billing functions that what you're talking about perform at least one of automated billing functions yes and i can explain what that is in the context of figure warrant which is on any four sixty five so the client there there are there are two ways in which the client application which is element twenty four and figure one sits at the heart of of financial transactions and at the heart of a business method the one that  transaction between a subscriber and the business once you know the location information you know i may have been a little hasty in a degree in with you if anyone claim a agency you have to look at the scope of the claim and you cannot ascertain the scope of the claim without looking to the specifications and if a claim is financially neutral so to speak  counted patent application draft or can draft a a financially neutral claim that can then be read on to you know any number of of of business activities you have to turn to the scope transactions one is the the one is money that can pass in between one of the subscriber and the client application  the border relied on the client application in claim twenty five sitting at at at the heart basically financial activity so  the client application it is a proxy for a business that wants to push advertising or special offers to wireless subscribers if they're permitted to have their location information so the board looked at the client application and then turned to the scope the full scope of the patent and determined that that's basically a business where does it say anything about advertising client twenty five i don't read it quickly up the notion that oh well somebody smart that uses for financial reasons and make money it has to be in the patent but certainly in the patent rights in the specifications are you talking about that one line i mean i'm not sure talk for me i  else i can tack on a dependent claim somewhere down claim four hundred thirty six and say and by the way this invention is designed to make money and the way to make not a method to look at things it's a method that that provision where a wireless network provider or a fee will provide location information to a business so that a business can therefore can thereafter target subscribers and assign the phone now that there's two ways in which this client application according to the patent specifications sits at the heart of two different ways of  two different types of financial transactions one is the client application targeting cell phone subscribers the business storing cell phone subscribers  i don't see how we can look at eleven and twenty two and that's not the basis of court's decision well though the chain or doctrine did not do away with the doctrine of harmless error and  to look at claims that are financially neutral that don't have an express hook to a financial activity such as the exchange of money for goods and under claim twenty five and by the way i want to sell the dirt is that is that a method is that a c b m provision that gives the agency the authority to establish rules on whether to institute a proceeding of combined with section eighteen that gives the agency the  determine to implement the transitional this transitional program for review cover business by the pats that's five delegates to the agency the authority to they are assuming that they have jurisdiction over the patent involved in this case under the statute and that's the only question before us and they say they do well that's not a question of arbitrary and capricious that's a question of have they read the statute correctly or or have i missed something am i wrong about that i don't think so but the i  client applications may be service or good some good providers whose business is geographically oriented most businesses want to connect the cell phone subscribers and climb twenty five controls that  information and that exchange of information so that businesses can conduct and consummate financial transaction to sell subscribers and not according to the dependent claims that the wireless is not actually citing claim eleven or twenty two inside of the specification you will search in vain for claim eleven or twenty two anywhere in the petition mentioned by number and my friend says that a harmless error is still part of the support for you but so anyway he the agency presented with a petition saying claims eleven and twenty two are eligible but we want to institute a cover business about the review want to several other claims might well have reacted quite differently that it did what it what it thought that the claims being challenge were in fact covered business bo whether the actual challenge claims are covered this is about the claims you're my friend suggests the business of body image but if you look right before the patches if you read from at the top of column eleven you'll see that emergency services and businesses wanting to keep track of their own employees are the first