everyone like to welcome all our witnesses here this morning i guess we could leave those doors open for the a little flow through there i was going to close in but maybe we'll just leave  moment i want to thank everybody for coming this morning we look forward to the testimony and we also look forward to better understanding of the conservation of striped bass or rock fish and what the future holds for recreation and commercial sectors and how we have been able to understand the nature of the ecology for this species over the last several decades of its ongoing studies one thousand nine hundred four the atlantic striped bass was considered to be a fishery in crisis a little more than fifteen years resource has been rebuilt from historic lows of about twenty million pounds to an all time high of one in sixty million pounds i can remember as a school teacher in kent county high school on the eastern shore some of the cafeteria workers whose husbands were watermen were crushed by the moratorium and and said it was unfair and gradually as they become began to look at the rebuilding efforts and the abundance that resulted in a short time they diversified to a number of other fisheries survive and now they are more than thriving as a result of that management but it was a tough struggle in the beginning for a lot of people but as a result of everybody coming together understanding the nature of the resource and how it could be sustained for generations to come with the proper fishery management approach  it is a success story and so we're here to understand how we can continue to build on that success story since the moratorium on striped bass fishery was instituted several years ago that has been controversy about the allocation of stright best resource and whether the federal easy should be open so here's another time that we can all get together and begin to talk about this issue whether we're a commercial recreational  scientist ecologist or just people on the side looking at the this issue and wanting to make sure that the people responsible for the management which includes the federal government names in particular members of congress state management regimes local watermen fishermen association the general population assumes that the people that make decisions on this management are competent objective and informed and i think to a large extent that has happened with striped bass and i'm sure it will continue to happen the striped bass or rock fish is very important to the atlantic coast and support our earliest american settlers as we all know john smith said he could walk across chesapeake bay on striped bass and there were numerous farmers not just indians but numerous farmers that used right bas fertilizer so we will continue to learn more about the striped bass rock fish history about the interactions of striped bass with other fisheries and dare i mention menha in particular the role of striped bass in the atlantic ocean and the chesapeake bay and its ecosystem and how that ecosystem is affected by human activity whether it's water quality dissolved oxygen loss of wetlands loss of spawning habitat whatever we do generally speaking degrades the habitat for wildlife so how can we get in there and understand the nature of our activity which is building roads and schools and hospitals and shopping plazas and places were motorboat can doc and those kinds of things and how that affects  the ecosystem as far as the natural cycle of disease is concerned so there's a big we're not done i guess what i'm saying body means there's a huge amount of effort that is before us  how do we deal with the easy do we open it up that we keep it closed how do we enforce it if we keep it open is it right now for all intents and purposes a marine protected area for big fish which is a huge benefit to coast of fisheries whether it's commercial or recreation so there's a big effort ahead of us we're all very busy with a lot of different things so what it's going to take to be successful i think in this big effort is communication and consensus amongst all the varying groups so i look forward to the testimony of all the witnesses this morning and i want to thank i didn't think mr  thank you mr chairman and let me first express my thanks to you and also the chairman pombo for holding this hearing on an issue that is so important to fishermen all along the east coast but especially in my state of new jersey if you ask almost any fishermen around here and you'll soon realize that the atlantic striped bass is a fish like no other it's a fish with serious fight in it and one that can be caught in rivers and bays by serve casting and in the open ocean and on the dinner table it's an incredibly prized fish because of its delicate flaky nature texture and because of the passion fishermen feel about a striped bass that hasn't us of economic impact this one fishery is estimated to be worth more than six billion dollars annually and supports over sixty thousand jobs up and down the east coast but it's also a fish that is quite vulnerable to depletion from overfishing and other factors in fact the stock collapsed in the one nine hundred eighty s after going from fifteen million pounds in hundred seventy three to a low three point five million pounds in one thousand nine hundred three and in response to that collapse congress passed the atlantic striped bass conservation act in many states closed their commercial fisheries in one nine hundred ninety the secretary of commerce placed a moratorium on commercial harvesting of striped bass from the easy to continue these protections i've introduced h r two zero five nine a bill that would prohibit the commercial harvesting of striped bass in coastal waters and in the easy a recognition of the fact that striped bass are simply not suited for commercial harvesting and should be conserved as best as possible and that's why i was alarmed in february of two thousand and three to hear that the atlantic states marine fisheries commission voted to recommend that the easy be open again to fishing for striped bass i want to emphasize however that this decision was opposed by the majority of states and only passed after the administration's two representatives on the commission voted in favor of the proposal it's no surprise that a majority the states oppose this move because it is a risky endeavor that could easily backfire for recreational anglers who currently fish for striped bass and station drawing restrictions including tight size and bag limits opening up the easy is a puzzling move new jersey's fishermen for example are only allowed to keep two fish over twenty eight inches long a dramatic change from the one nine hundred seventy s when they could keep ten fish over eighteen inches long and the atlantic states marine fisheries commission is even prohibited anglo's from landing so called slots fish from twenty four to twenty eight inches long yet at the same time they want to greatly increase pressure on the stock it simply makes no sense anglers in my district opening up the easy would also put serious pressure on a large breeder fish that are so critical to maintaining healthy stock levels and are more likely to live in the easy names and others have said that we can avoid future collapse or other disasters in the fishery by monitoring stock levels and taking appropriate measures but we simply do not have accurate enough real time data to be able to make those kinds of management decisions reliably in my opinion and finally i'm concerned that opening up the easy to striped bass fishing could disrupt individual state management practices and create a black market for the fish this is a serious concern it would be extremely difficult for states like new jersey which regulates dry passes a game fish to enforce the regulations when boat operators could claim that fish brought in to caught in the easy and not in state waters i'm looking forward to a healthy discussion of this issue with our witnesses including dr hogarth's from nymphs and of course jim fotis i mean tom foti and jim down at freo from my home state in my district who organizations represent a large number of recreational fishermen in my home state and have a great deal of experience with this particular fish and again mr chairman thank you for holding the hearing you know i know you you were i guess in the chesapeake it's more commonly called the rockfish  to require as the states to comply with the plan it also sets up a process for conservation under this this act we have to be the federal government has to be in compliance with the national standard move all what we could do a draft environmental impact statement which would get additional comments and then we could go through the proposal through the room making process we feel like this is extremely important issue should be recognized but we will continue to work closely with that constituents the state's commission to ensure that this important issue that we have the best management of striped bass for the future so i'm in your testimony have four options three would open the easy and one is to maintain the existing moratorium do you have any idea when will the that now that doesn't mean we decided six weeks to do something that it happens we have to go through proposed rules and room i can process that will take probably a year to year and a half so in about six weeks you'll have some fundamental idea after reviewing the comments about which one of the options that you mentioned here this morning we will pursue  years as i guess to the extent that you do monitor the atlantic statement fisheries commission management of striped bass has there been any point in the last six years or seven years or so showed that they were in over fish status then there was a real evaluation of that assessment and apparently some some things were taken at of the model and then it was shown zero five that they were they continued to be a healthy stock do you know what was redone with that reassessment what was taken out of the model in order to show that it was not an you have to have taken into consideration the health of the stock being partially due to what amounts to a marine protected area in the discussion further with their summer see people before we make a joke and that the easy you would actually in an overall sense reduce that's one of the comments that came through and we've looked at ca then would you have back edge and ensure water which will make up or exceed so it's not a easy question to answer this and then but we're trying to go back to look at all of the data in making this decision and i know i'm over my time  the stock is improving the stock is rebuilding the stock will probably be rebuilt by two thousand and twelve if we didn't have to take drastic measures and we have to take the two thousand and ten other drastic measures already contained within the statute of magnusson to take into consideration the bias biology of the stock and the economic ramifications we're looking at that but it appears that from the chord changes we've had in from the way the magnusson is written that we have had ten years and we've known this and you know in many instances we have said attack harvest level that had a fifty percent or even this is a court case which general where the judge said you're proudest of the comic books because we had eighteen percent probability of rebuilding and it said that we should have at least a fifty percent if you operated a fifty percent probability the judges of it in the ten years of reading your goal would not work and that's what we're faced with we have ten years ongoing story we'll have a second around the question i don't want to go over the things that chairman already mentioned although i think there's a crucial because i had some other questions but i just got asked a couple things following up on what he said because it was so important first of all in terms of this  procedure after the two thousand and three l a next eight marine fisheries commission vote just so i understand it that was essentially a recommendation to them and so you spent the last three years looking at different options but you haven't initiated the e i a s process and the e a s would only be initiated if you were to recommend changing the status quo is that what i did it came to us in two thousand and four you missed the loan and said the recommended t believe but then when the question came up about the stock assessment we talked of and then put it on how until that issue of the condition of the stock was sort of put on hold and to address as we went out  can but i'm not at the end of the six weeks if you don't if you decided the best alternative is the status quo they wouldn't initiate any not that's but if you were to decide on something other than the status quo you'd have to initiate the process in the based on the biology of this stock and economic considerations your target i guess in the beginning based on a number of different aspects was ten years you're not going to make that based on your even th biology of some of this such that you could rebuild it within ten years if you followed through all your rebuilding plan in some stocks they mean generation time is such that you can use one and want to have time so i mean fish but when they go fishing again which would lead us to the point that we can meet the ten year rebuilding it doesn't mean that the stocks on improving that it's somewhat i know it doing this because you have to do it to cause the legal court cases and the legal and price and legal opinion that i'm receiving tell me that i have no choice but to rebuild the stock and i have three years left and the  best science we have through peer review says that we cannot meet the ten years unless we take serious reductions in the in the quote and you would not if you had your way though you wouldn't what would you do go by and have not worry about the law and you were doing what you thought was right if i had my way i would extend the rebuild in probably two years we can make it in two more years the stock is still increasing we would have a not sure the exact level of harvest but it twenty to twenty three million pounds and we would all rebuild the stock in about two thousand and twelve and that gets to the whole flexibility as it is like still to say we think it's critical to end our fishing but have flexibility and when you get to  on that just very quickly first of all i made a mistake when i said economic considerations in the rebuilding timeframe and it is the biology of the stock and not economic considerations but if the stock is no longer considered overfished species of fish that we were talking about striped bass and then we went to the summer flounder but can you tell me what and first of all i'm sorry to be late and missed your testimony so you may have already said some of this but what's the current in two thousand and three to look at reopening it and then out of some questions about the stock in two thousand and four we had a few hearings that there are some questions about the status of striped bass we put it on how and when and then this year we put out can you know be into what not overfished but you're not at your level that you should be for the rebuilt stop so that they're basically that's a chain that you look at the end of a fishing means that you've got it at a level that with time a certain time rebuild and that should be in ten years and we will not make it a current level of harvest so the what is the what is the rebuild by a less of summer flounder i don't know if you know the exact number but but you have a rebuilt biomass that you're trying to achieve by two thousand and ten and you have you know what the status of that is right now what the biomass is right now  so i guess what what kind of what i'm trying to understand we're not about fifty two percent of what they rebuilt should be fifty two percent and that i know that number but i don't with fifty two percent of that ok let me just and since we have you here bill i'm going to try to understand another another section of  written you cannot you do not have the flexibility to push it out to twenty twelve but your management plan is such that being fully rebuilt now i don't want to open up a can of worms in the hearing but let's say you had the flexibility within the rebuilding language to an understanding the biology of the stock but you had the flexibility to push just from twenty ten to twenty two well let's say that was in the statute but you also had in the statute ending overfishing in two years under the present scenario with summer flounder if you had in the statute and over fishing in two years but you had the flexibility in the rebuilding process to push this out to twenty twelve how could you say in the real world world that would work was that it did you would end the overfishing and that's part of this process let's say in the statute it said you must end overfishing in two years but for all intensive purposes is that what you have done right now with your management of summer beth have you done any kind of economic analysis if you have with some of flounder if you have to put these further restrictions in place have you done any  bass question currently recreational anglers face strong restrictions including tight size and bag limits in new jersey and many other states angus can only keep two fish over twenty eight inches long given these tight restrictions on recreational angling for currently find refuge in the easy has an instant any studies looking into the potential impacts of harvesting these larger breeders on stock health said recruitment that's one of the issues that we're looking at we look at this cruise data we have for a number year th proponents of opening the easy to striped bass fishing have claimed that if stock level showed any decline in the future monitoring requirements and management triggers an amendment six would allow for quick action if needed to ensure stock conservation but how can him speak sure this tribe best dat is accurate enough and these management techniques is sophisticated enough to ensure real time management so that we don't slide into a stock collapse once again well i think we have pretty good through the states and states are manageable as a but they have a pretty good two thousand and six approaching the threshold level under the amendment six in light of the statement why would we be considering open the easy when we're not even sure if the current level of fishing mortality is sustainable outside early that's one of th that we think we all pretty much hitting on that upper level of official mortality and that's the issue that we'll have to address with our scientists internally and discussed with the state scientists but we had points for nothing to the up limit s point for one hand so you are concerned about any increase in fish mortality i just got a couple more here mr chairman how many doctors how many dominant year classes are necessary to ensure there will be no degree  future recruitment i have to get back to you on that because i don't know for sure and i would rather not guess i have an idea but without getting back that answer ok and then i guess my last question is the national research council a recent report to congress entitled review of recreational fishery fisheries survey methods found serious flaws in the current marine recreational fisheries statistics survey and states that i quote it should be completely redesigned to improve its  effectiveness given this report in the controversies in two thousand and four over the stock assessment done by atlantic states marine fisheries caution would it make more sense to ensure our data collection and stock assessment of striped bass are accurate and agreed upon by we have the best numbers and we're looking at one of the things you asked us to go back and look at which people can do now beginning to do is look at the bias associated with the recreational and that is something we can do ok thank you thank you m of what the current conservation measures that we're using and then what would the recommendations be just to have those two i would find that helpful and i yield back mr chairman thank you but  john o'shea he's related to mr vince o'shea executive director atlantic statement fisheries commission you gentlemen thank you very much for your attendance here this morning we look forward to your testimony so that we can more fully understand the potential and some might say eminent decision making for  striped bass fishing in the easy mr foti you may begin sir always like to be first i'd like to thank the committee for basically having this hearing this opportunity to discuss  chesapeake bay that's a river delaware bay and there are baited name a few of those and sure fisheries have been greatly affected strike there has always been to dominate your fishery we close easy we guarantee the striped bass will remain most available only imagine the escalating and for some problems and cost the prospect of an expanding recreational fishing congress and senate have been considered marine protected areas for some time we have a marine protect orders for thirty million pounds in two thousand and five and thirty three million pounds in two thousand and six both of those cores were vetted approved by both organizations in two thousand and five they changed their mind of a quarter from thirty three million  for three or four weeks last year i caught two hundred pounds for the whole spring and eight hundred pounds this year last year i had the worst  triple for the recreational and the commercial fishing they were not to catch and i'll be out of business within three to five years we have a very serious problem here strongly feel that there should be a full investigation national marine fisheries and a local as to why they keep taking and taking and not giving anything back  close very close to the hearts of recreation the fishing community who played a critical role in the successful recovery of the resource consequently our membership has a significant interest in responsible management striped bass is important understand a substantial economic impact that the recreational lennox bass fishing has on atlantic states particularly in the coastal regions the atlantic striped bass recreational fishery supports a vast and diverse economic infrastructure including party and charter boat services bait and tackle shops sporting goods stores boat sales and repairs marine supply houses gas stocks marinas retail food stores restaurants and hotels as well as manufacturers of fishing boats tackling gear along the whole east coast in two thousand and three there were six point five million marine recreational anglers who spent a total of two point four billion on recreational striped bass fishing this fishery had an overall economic impact of six point six billion after multiplier effects and that supported over sixty thousand jobs additionally trips targeting black stripe account for thirty one percent of the total number of fishing trips in any given year these figures appear to be conservative but illustrate the magnitude and importance of the recreational linux drive past fishery continued angler participation in spending on marine recreational fishing is highly correlated to fishing opportunities therefore a loss of access to the stripe as a resource due to a reduced biomass will have a severe negative economic consequence this occurrence has been quantified in the context of the atlantic striped bass fishery by comparing angler expenditures during a period of stock depletion to angler expenditures during a subsequent period of stock recovery in one thousand nine hundred one as the chairman mentioned earlier when the striped bass fishery was severely depleted this resulted in the imposition of stringent management measures and a complete harvest moratorium uneasy these conservation measures measures were successful and by one nine hundred ninety five the stock was restored the number of directed recreational fishing trips for striped bass increase from about one million in one thousand nine hundred one to over seven million in one thousand nine hundred six an average increase of thirty eight percent per year angle expenditures  on trips increased from eighty five million eighty one to five hundred sixty million dollars in ninety six an average annual increase of thirty five percent in short marine recreational expenditures are a function of recreational fishing opportunities consequently lifting the harvest moratorium striped bass an easy will result in restrictive management measures as pressure on the stocks exceeds conservation targets mandated in the management plan a reduction in opportunities resultin decrease recreational expenditures with the consequent anomic impacts on our coastal communities the atlantic striped bass population along the atlantic coast has been successfully built above the top target b wrestle threshold specified in the amendment six of the atlantic striped bass plant in addition to restrictive size and bag limits the harvest moratorium easy imposed both commercial and recreational fishermen played a significant role in the face believes that it is prudent to maintain harvest restrictions on striped bass in easy and definitely fisheries managers do not have a clear understanding of disconcerting issues such as non directed by catch a striped bass in commercial fisheries and impacts of a new striped bass fishery an easy on target mortality goals set forth by amendment six of the plan the majority of information describing the structures as an easy indicates that this area is more frequented by a larger older fish component  population that amendment six seeks to protect in fact they quote establish a fishing mortality target that will result in a net increase in the abundance of aged fifteen and older striped bass in a population relative to the two thousand estimate also included in the goals and objectives in a minute six to perpetuate through cooperative interstate fishery management migratory stock of striped bass to allow commercial recreational fisheries consistent with the long term maintenance of a broad a structure a self sustaining stock and also provide for the restoration and maintenance of their get essential habitat the relative lack of larger fish in a population as a direct result of overfishing that took place prior to the management plant in addition current data indicates that fish in easy are appear to be increasing the importance of the easy as wondering grounds for older striped bass therefore allowing directed or incidental fishery necessary would be at odds with the objective of a mammoth six a final concern would be addressing existing problems with consistency between state and federal goals and objectives result regarding striped bass management of conservation current leaders no fishery management plan for striped bass in federal waters several states including new jersey pennsylvania connecticut new hampshire maine and d prohibit commercial fishing for striped bass lift an easy moratorium would require that stripe b s p land in transporting these states thereby creating a potential conflict of laws and on conclusion here based on the status of the stock bass as critical wintering habitat and feeding grounds in light of an abrupt increases in average ocean temperatures along the atlantic seaboard mr chairman i'm happy to answer any questions thank you very much mr baker welcome thank you morning mr chairman members of the committee i appreciate the opportunity to be here today and to speak my name is peter baker on the campaign director for the cape cod commercial hook fishermen's association chatham mass which is at the elbow of cape cod hopefully most of been up there in norm talking about we have about twenty five hundred members engaged in commercial fishing recreational fishing charter boat fishing and fishermen they believe that over fishing and habitat destruction are leading to the demise of the traditional near shore hook and line fishery and the coastal communities that they support we actively campaign for a healthy marine environment we take part in cooperative research public education and the promotion of community based fisheries management were members of the marine corps conservation network and the national farmers union and this year we became the first fishing organization to win noah's environmental hero award our basic premise is that the nation is best served by maintaining healthy marine fish stocks and a commercial fishing fleet to catch them for delivery to consumers my testimony today will address right bass conservation and management as i think everybody has said we see striped bass as a real success story and proof that conservation works we also believe that it's a success story that in our state of massachusetts we have a commercial fisheries that side by side with recreational fishery the commonwealth of massachusetts has decided to allow limited commercial fisheries bass it's an example of the commonwealth exercising its prerogative as a state the commercial fisheries will manage its a total allowable catch or tax base fishery shuts down when the annual catch limit is caught the fishery is hooked in line only meaning no gill netting no dragging only fish over thirty four inches can be retained in fisheries open four days a week roughly from the fourth of july until the tack is caught tack based management of the striped bass commercial fishery provides biological benefits to the stock in the form of a sustainable harvest  by setting up our fishery in such a manner massachusetts consumers can eat fresh locally caught fish during the heart of the summer tourist season where i live on cape cod and our fleet is based many restaurants highlights right basses there are seasonal special consumer on demand for the fish is high in commercial fisherman get a strong price for their fish consumers or cannot afford are not able to or do not wish to angle reported the right to eat striped bass because of this this provides a clear social benefit for the non england public because of the ensure the demise of the insurer cod fishery due to poor management the closing of the dog fish fishery due to pure politics and the poor priest productivity of the bluefin tuna fishery due to international overfishing the striped bass fishery has become an important component of the commercial season for nearshore commercial cooking line fishermen in massachusetts restaurant tours fish buyers cutting houses fishmonger supermarkets people that sell fish get an economic benefit from the availability of commercially cod striped bass in addition to the biological social and economic benefits that are well managed commercial strike bass for three provides there's also an issue of fairness as we've heard there are attempt tends to be made to make striped bass a game fish only on the entire east coast eliminating the commercial harvest we don't see any biological justification for congress to declare that states no longer have the right to have a commercial striped bass fishery we see this is a case in which the tenants of state's rights should be respected some states have decided to allocate one hundred percent of their share of the stripe grass resource to recreational anglers this is a decision of an individual state but in the commonwealth of massachusetts we have decided divide our share of the resource between anglers and commercial hookers from massachusetts has a long history of commercial fishing indeed people fish commercially here for hundreds of years before angling became a popular sport the commercial striped bass fishery is in pursuit of massachusetts for decades states to make their own decisions choosing the commercial enterprise of charter boat fishing over the commercial enterprise of commercial hook and line fishing is not the role of congress these are often the same people in the same boat using the same gear one is catching fish to sell the others catching fish to sell charters  we moving on to the issue of the easy we support the position of massachusetts division of marine fisheries in regard to opening the easy for controlled strike bass harvest and i'm going to quickly kuoppala da da di the director of our d m a three game fishing access in the easy and to preserve the regulatory approach of individual states i recommend the secretary of congress commerce defer to state regulations for striped bass management out to twelve miles within the territorial sea removing the federal harvest moratorium within the territorial sea would allow a fishery to occur in this area under regulatory limits such as size limits back one season etc set by states with the enforcement applied shoreside and fisher landed as it is now so in conclusion we oppose attempts to declare a striped bass a game fish and we support opening the easy out to twelve miles with the state rules applying out to twelve miles thank you very much  you very much mr baker mr vince morning mr chairman thank you i brought some posters with us with some information with your permission i'd like mike silver here to be able to maybe come a little bit and i'll get started good morning mr chairman and members of the committee vince o'shea executive director of the atlantic states marine fisheries commission the commission was founded in one thousand nine hundred two by the fifteen atlantic coastal states to protect and promote atlan coastal fisheries to cooperate of management and conservation thank you for the opportunity to appear today to review the health management and future of rock fish sometimes referred to as atlantic striped bass over the past two decades the recovery of striped bass has been spectacular a testament to effective in response of resources management i'd like to make three points mr chairman today the total abundance of striped bass has reached a historic high with the current warning stockpile mass of fifty five million pounds as shown on the graph in addition to this high abundance the age structure has been expanded further strengthening the reproductive capacity of the stock however we must not let the accomplishments of today blind us to the lessons of the past twenty five years ago the striped bass stock collapsed due to decades of overfishing and habitat degradation and the second chart vividly demonstrates that m chairman thanks to the unaided efforts of our member states and federal partners as well as the sacrifices of both recreational and commercial fisherman the stock was rebuilt by nine hundred ninety seven despite the successes there are some concerns some fish appear to be infected with also rate of dermatitis syndrome which causes lesions on the body it is not clear what role water quality or the stress induced by catch and release fisheries may have on this illness mycobacteria osis is another bacterial infection found in the chesapeake bay back in one nine hundred ninety seven it causes skin lesions stunted growth and scar mortality such an effect would be evident in our stock assessments so far we've not seen a significant rise in natural mortality fortunately maryland and virginia scientists or where the situation and can to continue to study this stage this issue my second point is that success requires maintenance in order to protect the progress made in recovery the commission as the bell has developed and approved amendments to the striped bass management plan as approved in two thousand and three amendment six establishes biological reference points appropriate for rebuild stock requires states to monitor the health and harvest the fish and provides a suite of triggers requiring rapid management response to increases in fishing mortality or decreases in biomass commercial fisheries are controlled through a system of quotas established by the commission that shown in figure three recreational harvest is managed by a target  has allowed expansion throughout most of the rebuilding period you can also see that in the graph mr chairman our management strategy recognizes the importance and wisdom of continuing a modest investment in monitoring the harvest and abundance of this healthy stock in order to avoid the four more costly actions needed to rebuild the collapsed fishery my third point mr chairman is we need to also look at the future proposals to implement federal regulations prohibiting commercial harvest of state fisheries raised concerns from the commission's perspective such action infringes on the sovereign rights of states to manage their natural resources within their jurisdictions ending commercial harvest of a fully recovered species raises issues of fairness and would likely discover the commercial sector from accepting conservation efforts for other species establishment of a recreational only harbors raises the public policy issue of allocating a public resource the exclusive use of the fish catching public at the expense of the fish eating public through the amendments six process the commission recommended that secretary open the easy to fishing after hearing from our technical advisers that no scientific reason exists to continue the moratorium in addition to opening the in addition opening the easy could benefit the stock by converting discards into landings thus reducing fishing mortality during public hearings on the e c issue many expressed concerns that commercial harvest would increase if the easy were open in fact commercial harvest is controlled by our states through hard quotas and would not increase looking to the future the sacrificing controls used to rebuild striped bass can serve as an example of the action needed to restore other stocks in the mid atlantic region important to your constituents we need to apply the lessons learned from striped bass to species like winter flounder fluke week fish and total logs all of which are significantly below their target levels in conclusion mr chairman the commission recognizes its stewardship responsibility and is committed to responsible management using the best available science we are grateful to you and all the members of the subcommittee for your leadership on marine fishery issues and for your continued support of our commission as we work for towards healthy self sustaining populations we're all atlantic coast i'd be happy to answer any questions you or the members might now in some cases is commercial fishermen are fishing out beyond three miles from species like blue fish and so forth and catching striped bass there discarding the striped bass because they're not allowed to keep them and later in the afternoon they come back inside state waters catch their striped bass then come in and count them so the striped bass that they would catch outside the three mile limit would be counted in the in the tag well in this case right now they're being discarded some of those are be in stead of going out for all the states that hold true for massachusetts virginia and maine florida north carolina not all of them have commercial fisheries but those who have able to retain them and bring them in but they would count against the state quota and when the state quota failed they would no longer be allowed to retain striped bass is there a potential for that quota increase as a result of opening the  want to comment to the mr chairman thank you i completely disagree with mr o'shea on this currently right now in the gulf of mexico there is a huge operation going on in fo mr saxon when he was chairman his committee held a hearing on this same issue here december twelfth i believe it was one thousand nine hundred five and i did a big investigation we were still in session yes we were yes we were yeah but anyway  what happened was looking into one of the big unfortunate problems was is that there are so many waterways so many little spots where a boat can just onload fish in a backyard once the easies open anybody fishing out there is just going to load their boats up and land i've a few more questions i got the gist of gist of that if you can and you can include that in this following question mr foti but i'd like on i'd like everybody in the panel to give a quick response to this has before proposed a plan that includes four options that you probably all seen those four options each of you give me which one of those options you would like to see mr foti i wear a couple has besides jersey coast angles association i'm on the board of directors of the american sport fishing association and i sit on the board of directors of the stripes forever all three of those organizations want status quo and not so much worry about increasing the commercial fishery even if there wasn't a law enforcement problem which we know they're going to be it's a reallocation from the historic years a groups to a new group says there's the options would you do you have a preference for one of the options that is proposing i think out of twelve miles would be a good thing you still have to cross that three mile line to get back in twelve miles and as far as enforcement goes as he said it's where you land your fish to the enforcement takes place not where you catch your fish you have to land in a state where there's not an assay process or waiting for fish to come for striped bass that i'm aware  what happens at the dock and frankly in every fishery where there's recreational commercial there's cheating we call it poaching when it's recreational and commercial we call it shack fishing but happens in every single fishery  heard you know that you have these very specific and restrictive measures measures in place for both commercial and recreational now in state waters and seven states including d c have closed the waters to all commercial striped bass fishery what you know what is your opinion how state management in the forstmann particularly in those states which have a close commercial striped bass fishery how would they be affected by opening the easy what is your response to some of these enforcement concerns see how that is necessarily going to change is open that if people don't have the quota in a state that's close to commercial fishing as it is now they're trying to run right now and if it's open in the east they whether they're not allowed to take a large commercial waters and land it and they wouldn't be allowed to do that if it was open either of the member states of atlantic commission how many supported the recommendation to open the boat prevailed as been pointed out by other witnesses here because of the vote by the fish and wildlife service in the national marine fisheries service both of which voted to open the so certainly was a close exact point from this point as you get closer to the hudson river which then is the fish they limit that those fish are not allowed to be harvest that's why there is no commercial fishery of all the hudson river and when you look at rockaway in response they have shut bother him because it's open and meanwhile now they're loading up their boats and going into their inlets and in their backyards in their coolers are going to the markets there's where exacerbates the illegal fishery that's going to happen here this is going to be a real problem and that's the real time answer for that not just well ok well the quote is a quote the grounds are going to be open the coast guard's not going to be looking at it because it's an open ground thank you mr downer frail we'll have to get vince back in the coast guard mr thank you mr chairman my position on this issue is well known i guess i don't have to state it but i just would like to say this since i've been in congress which has been twenty two  years i've watched fisheries management and i used to get all mad at people like bill for not doing their job and i spent half an hour or so with bill hogarth earlier this morning and i said bill i'm not going to holler at you anymore i used to think you didn't do your job now i think you've got an impossible job and i don't say that to be funny but it's the context within which we have to we have to deal with these issues and there are difficult decisions to make and on this on this decision the gentleman is holding up a chart here that shows the growth of the biomass kind of made me smile it was twenty two years ago when i came here and this act is now to october it'll be twenty two years old speech about groundfish collapsing in new england about striped bass collapsing along the along the east coast redfish collapsing in the gulf of mexico sea urchins on the west coast and our worries about salmon in the northwest we've got it we've got a conservation plan is working let's let's let's not tinker with it but i would like to use this opportunity to ask a question i was talking to bill hogarth this morning about summer flounder and i'd like to read a paragraph taken from our briefing paper for the hearing today as congressional action and sound state management policies of allow the striped bass population to recover a little more than fifteen years ago actually was twenty two years ago i think the resource has rebuilt from a historic low of about twenty million pounds to an all time high of one hundred sixty million pounds this rebuilding did not occur without hardships both commercial and recreational fishermen alike have endured severe harvest restrictions and closures with the hope of seeing greater benefits in the future fortunately those sacrifices appear to be paying off in the challenge ahead of managing the restored  stock here's a question could you please explain the similarities and differences between rebuilding striped bass and the problems mentioned today with regard to summer flounder and particular are there short term sacrifices different what are the stock for nine hundred thirty gentlemen and ladies were a lot different than we were in one nine hundred thirty we've lost fifty or sixty percent of the wetlands along the east coast because of over development and everything else and that's an important area for the nursery area for some of land so even if that was the realistic figure of two hundred for we would never be able to build up to the point and that's really the target we should know if the target was one hundred seventy million pounds then the quarters could be up probably in the figures about thirty thirty estimate of the recreational so we would set up realistic targets some of la the way to set a realistic target has really recovered or maybe you think it's still very fragile when we in the last couple years i've been a commissioner a lot of states as a proxy for the legislature or the governor's appointees to from  because it was concerns of big fish two years later we decided it wasn't a concert there was always a war on the precipice of basically shutting the fishery reducing the catch if we reduce the catch on the recreational sector the all the way you can do that is basically because one other comment my time's expired but i did want to thank you for having the chart for the discarded because i really had not thought about that and the issue you brought it up about disease and mortality and throwing those fish back what difference would it make where you caught them because obviously you're doing the enforcement i mean someone is doing the enforcement today when you land because of the catch number for the day  looking at this from sort of the big picture ecological view which is the way nature does nature and its design functions we go in there and we pick out this and we pick out that but that  time nature is trying to in their circle trying to balance around that one thought and we've been pretty successful with the striped bass so what do we do now we just continue what we've doing what we're doing which we know is an option so if any of you can answer one or all of these questions i know they're sort of oriented toward the agencies but i of people that are not on the agencies that is one multi species approach to management the rockfish are reading everything in their wake what can we do to begin to strike that balance with the rockfish and the bluefish small crabs man hayden whatever do we have to give an allocation  manhattan to the rockfish just like we give an allocation to the fishermen for the rock fish and the manhattan you know that's how do we deal with a multi species management plans so that rock fish are not the only fish left in the bay the other thing is do we know what level of man hayden is necessary to sustain a striped bass population and number three vince brought up this bacteria  what do we know about this bacteria bacteria osis which some scientists have discussed with me it's similar to the birkie losers only it's a fish version of it what's causing that is it related t nutrition of rock fish they're not getting enough of the right kind of food is it water quality is it to bitty causing a problem is it stress from catch and release is it warmer water days are getting warmer and if anybody looked at a map of the chesapeake bay in the summertime over the last years or so big and ox a dead zone no dissolved oxygen so multi species management of ecosystem approach what's the biomass of man hayden necessary do we know for a healthy stock of rock fish and why are they catch in this disease with the actual we talk about stocks of fish we're rebuilding striped bass to this optimum point we're building some of the land that is optimal point we're building with fish to this optimal point in nature everything is not an optimal point the same time that's what we have as we get those ten year rebuilding talks we also are not building bait up to the optimum time and because we will we do here as we manage fisherman we don't manage the environment enough read my comment earlier how can we build some of flounder up to the optimum level if we have destroyed seventy or eighty percent of the wetlands in the last eighty years not the concern here and also the water temperature striped bass of historical you have more susceptible to disease if you catch a striped bass in warm water and the air temp is above ninety degrees what tally increases by fifty percent if you catch it in cold water and salt water then it's mortality drops down to six or eight percent  all those who are into playing together thank you very much i'm going to i would like to i think like it we can reach you and get more of your response to that question but i think we're about ready for a vote so i'm going to yield to mr sloan as any further questions some causes of the fluctuating data in the stock assessments of the striped bass in the last few years  mr chairman you know one of the one of the things that i have seen a change which i think i don't think we know how many stripes are really out there now say that because i have documentation from the new jersey state legislature from turn of the century when they were they were going to put a law into effect to protect wintering striped bass in the moloko river which is in mr saxon's district in bass river because in the old days these guys used to fish would winter to the ocean temperatures are very cold the fish there was not much for job there the fish would come in the big fish would come into these rivers and estuaries and they would lay under the ice storm and of course the residents would cut holes in the ice and get them illegally so they had to protect them we've lost that we don't have the ice in the rivers anymore warmer there's all kinds of bait out there and to me it's going to become a huge in forstmann nightmare with bycatch controlling catch control and illegal fisheries the migratory pattern has changed you can you can check with people that are following these patterns from the science division mister what you'll see now is striped bass dead generally and years ago forty fifty years ago would leave the cape and come down along follow the coastline there making a dove told us that i cat last year he was fifty miles off shore last winter catching mackerel in his macro fishery and he had opened up this person to release giant striped bass the net was full of them now that is you would never heard that forty or fifty years you know i'm concerned about the economic impact if we have another collapse so maybe you want to talk about angles experience when the strike collapsed in the mid eighty's you know either the economic impact by reference to that or if you want to comment on the of reduction that was consistent with federal law and state law it's been help held constitutionally so what we allow is a bait fishery only which is about thirty million pounds of menhaden extracted from new jersey state waters now prior to that legislative passive chairman this is mind boggling the out of state boats came in to new jersey off mr sacks in long beach island and took ninety million pounds of menhaden out in two weeks the year after they were gone all the sudden lo and behold and since that time until now we have the best striped bass fishing new jersey has ever had and i'm talking to people that are in their seventies and eighties that have never seen it and they say it's only because we've got the menhaden here that's holding them back in ninety six got the same legislation got the menhaden reduction boats out kept the state vessels that were catching bait for the commercial and recreational industries intact rhode island did it regulatory working with the rhode island solar anglers and subsequent to that there was an abundance of striped bass and other predator fish back in the sound in those areas matter of fact if you look up down the coast florida south carolina and georgia have all thrown the reduction boats out of state waters as you go further up  they did a long time ago when you basically have a lot of menhaden around you have a healthy stripe and one of the reasons we have a good striped bass fishery and probably outstanding in the jersey is because we're dealing with hudson river and delaware  approach to answer the question you asked about an allocation to the different predator species that model has gone through peer review with the northeast fishery science center through the what they call the stock assessment review committee and the commission is optimistic that that's going to be a very important and useful tool for us to get out on a scientific basis some of the questions that have been raised here today  probably not the spark and flames you are looking for well we're just looking for good objective data so thank you all very much mr downer for you want to make a comment mr chairman if you wouldn't mind one final comment i have a lot of empathy or for mr newell and i agree that there are a lot of striped bass around and i would say the answer would be that the commission should look into maybe increasing the quotas within the state management that would be a better answer than just