in fact the procedural factor for the court may recognize from that discussion but i brought this appeal because the district court's procedure in assessing sections to the orders that it entered the final judgment that it entered in the series of orders over the space of just weeks and the subsequent motion for  subsequently appealed thirty days later in the course it i ordered you to pay the sanctions why is that the first time that the district court said that because the district court never said that before the district court had hearing where it assessed a motion those benefits of motion for contempt ok at that hearing for the district court order for the first time you need to pay sanctions so that final or a came out in february or two in two thousand and fourteen and we followed most of the appeal in thirty days later ok so that is the first time the court ordered me to pay twenty thousand dollars this was in the contempt receiving jetson ok but usually you typically if you've got a sanction that's been awarded typically would appeal the order of the order of the sanction not wait until contempt of contempt proceedings as a question of whether or not the issue is whether or not you paid or not paid but that's exactly my point on this appeal of the district work to do not do things right we can do better we can two weeks later the court issued another work that says manley you are liable for eight point five million dollars including that twenty thousand dollars what's missing from the second order is any mention of me any mention of coun no longer liable the after that you had a sanctions order that was quite explicit it seemed you think that that somehow was removed from the equation so why did the way i mean the way i read orders to be doing this a long time is there when you have a first door that says one thing second order addresses the exact same subject matter and change is something that the second order replaces the first or so yes i read that second  and under the duress of the threat of it if you don't there's going to be fees and costs and everything else so yes i paid it and then i was going to appeal right away guess what hanging over my head was holding open the written order that says on those other issues no means no costs the matter is now supposed to be my practice of the district court and with this court's have been issues of not fun premature notices of appeal i waited until that court added under the twenty thousand and then the final order would have come out who knows what amount that would be and then there are people so that wasn't didn't seem like a logical option to respond to that direct with any other action but this was  the context of a contemporary city right yes ok so that kind of presumes that there's already been a judgment that you're required to pay and you get contempt for a failure to enforce the judgment well targets of the sanctions it was my firm me whatever you want to call it whatever short anyone to use the court chose to use that my last name so at that hearing my partner showed up on behalf of the firm leading me that so i don't know i don't get to go call her up and say what did you mean by those two things all i can do is read the final judgment to see that my name has been removed and i presume of the under the law that i've set forth and the argument i wasn't included in the final order i don't think the sanctions were ever entered against me and if you lose that part of the district court then you come up here and you appeal it to us that's what it if you paid me paid the amount you paid you paid what was feeds quest three give us costs in supposing of the motion she disposed of the first thing at the here she said you got to pay by thirty or thirty days and because i want to see what happens i'm holding open the issue of seemed obvious to me she's obviously upset if you want your dad what's the standard here if you just watch yes it's abuse of discretion but you know clearly what i'm trying to do here is just have this court you know and say to the district court you know you're a judge you have the power of the written word and be clear and concise and in this case she was not clear and precise that she wanted me to pay i had no choice but to pay and i'm appealing that sanction there are two different entities they're both mentioned in the order and the judge uses lopping as the shorthand in her order for lobban and the law firm eclipse and there's there's still doubt about what the courts of test was it says children jointly and severally liable for this twenty thousand dollars with men so as of july twenty third twenty thirty they've been sanctioned and they owe twenty thousand dollars on august sixth two thousand and thirteen there an order for judge who are against manly incorporating the twenty thousand dollars in the other eight million dollars of liability findings of the disfavor on august twenty first twenty thirteen judgment is entered against ma believe so but i think a so what do you mean his argument you've heard this argument is going to come in is that it was in the first order but then there were subsequent orders and teen fairly read those as having dropped the twenty thousand dollars sanction against yeah yeah proceedings so it was only natural and in accordance with precedent that the judgment only reflected man but we know that mr watkins position now is not truthful and correct september eleventh two thousand and thirteen three weeks after this judgment that he now says he thinks let him off the hook he wrote a letter to the core assuring the court that he understood he had to pay and say the full amount of that twenty thousand has been placed on squarely rounds and slowly on my personal shoulders alone by my law firm and by my client no mention at all of a judge can clarify this i'm not sure would have been easy to do instead the exact opposite position that's been taken today the exact opposite and that stock read thirty four so in our papers and all we addressed in the opening partly was jurisdiction in our papers we explain why and i defect in our briefing which i apologize for as we should have cited to the court the case that was cited in this reluctance notice of appeal which is really the governing case on when you appeal a sanctions order and that sanders associ attorney who's been sanctioned can appeal that order and the holding in the federal circuit the law the federal circuit is you have to wait a final judgment it's not a collateral order unless or some unusual circumstance so his appeal w the file in august of or within thirty days of the august twenty first twenty thirteen judgment so it's not timely the court doesn't have jurisdiction but and i'm a sit down because it's really a straightforward issue what we don't got this wrong it's a twenty page sanctions or there's no question that the fines that mr lupton clearly neglected his duty and violated the law and it's deserving of sanction that's not in dispute so if the court reaches it's a really a straight forward straightforward issue grateful incompetent attorney which i'm not so on the issue of why i was sanctioned and the underlying crime that it was a thirty six deposition and the court decided you know i should have been better prepared fine the issue here is what the district court do in those orders and can we do better instead of letting council twist in the wind for nineteen months to have me pay twenty thousand dollars on a credit card right before christmas that impacts my family and my future why don't we hold district course to a standard that says be clear courts do two things courts issue injunctions telling parties you can do something or not do something in court issued judgments that were fired people to pay money well then issue a judgment that says a lot and pay money you don't even have to put a deadline on it although that's proper to by a certain time one of the court to hear it should sanctions against manly my