hello everyone and welcome to the march tenth twenty fifteen planning commission meeting tonight thank you all for coming i mean approval of the minutes for the february tenth meeting me and the february twenty fourth study session w i posed next communications from the audience anyone that would like to come forward to speak about anything that is not on the agenda tonight can come forward at the podium at this time  right next unfinished business and tabled items letter a resounding ordinance text amendments for a new section thirty nine dash seventeen point four fair housing accommodation policy city hall and planning commission is the applicant i need a motion to remove this from the table so move support in favor host all right ron if you'd like to give a brief description of this one sure thank you at your last may be my believes the last meeting at a public hearing on the proposed ordinance for accommodation it's in your package tonight along with a resolution adapting it with a rationale for adopting the resolution the proposed ordinance would add a section to the zoning code section thirty nine dash seventeen point four to deal with accommodation of handicapped persons under the federal fair housing act the statute prohibits discrimination  housing which includes discrimination caused by the impact of zoning ordinances and the goal of this ordinance is to make sure that the highland ordinance only organs does not cause the impact of discrimination  handicapped persons of course have indicated that under the statute and to get persons need to be or disabled persons need to be given the opportunity for residential living like others in a single family neighborhoods the ordinance goes through a number of sections  defined as numbers items defined it defines disabled persons to be consistent with what the federal fair housing act defines them to be it provides for a notice in assistance through the department of community and neighborhood services for assistance and in obtaining accommodation it sets a procedure before the zoning board of appeals for review of the request for accommodation describes what information needs to be submitted  some paragraph e it sets the standards for zoning boards a review and approval of accommodations or could be denial of accommodations in appropriate circumstances as a special exception under the zoning ordinance and then provides for appeal to the circuit court like other zoning board actions along with the ordinance in your package you have a resolution that gives background of of the draft of reasons or rationales that we've heard for adopting the ordinance right thank you ron this does not require a public hearing at this time as we had it at our last meeting correct correct any discussion among commission members or motions i believe it will be on the council's next agenda and i think the intent is to have at the next study session for further discussion which is on the website correct correct right alternating wednesdays so tomorrow is a study session so i believe it will be not tomorrow but in two weeks from tomorrow wonderful new next item development plan review for a new mixed use building to be located at five thirty two correction that is west sixteenth street right mark lake merrick developers l l c is the applicant i made a motion to remove this item from the table condominiums are yes ok and to perform and of the ground floor is proposed to be used for retail space i believe of the residue or the restaurant in tavern in nature so at your last meeting you did have the public hearing we discussed of the site plan and some detail and planning commission did a table that requesting additional information from the applicant  staff came up with a somewhat lengthy list of items that shared that with the developer and we have received back a lot of information from them that  addressing some of those staffing issues so i can certainly get into the staff reporting think it might be more appropriate at this time to allow the applicant to present you know the review gettings that they have been and then we can go from it it is linked a bit to the project just to the north it's under construction and has taken on even more progress since our last meeting starting to take shape with the the main townhouses facing the water right now residential kind of minium is that provide even one more diverse opportunity for housing the one certainly on lake mack tower are the most up and upper end opportunities the ones that are under construction somewhat shielding us from the high end project but also giving us a nice feeling of enclosure are those three stories that are under construction and this is sort of the triangular king pin that complements that development and gives it a little suns of its own little finishing off its construction downtown holland out to this point in terms of quality of materials so the the base of the whole building all the way around even on the east even on the south and the whilst is a is a brick which we're all familiar with down town hall and how nicely that brick teetotaling works in the city the upper portion of the building the over the residential to give a little more residential sense is going to be lapped siding clap colored aluminum on the on the base a lot of glass because of the restaurant especially on that north elevation and quite a bit of that will be operable in that we can bring dining out to that  north portion and to the east portion of the building he's pushing the building will be adjacent to the park like a link that goes up to the north up to the lake tower which is we're eager to interact with the park department and those responsible for the landscaping of that and integrating it into our east section b the stairway in between allowing all connected accessibility to those kind of indians and yeah so that's a fun show your project where there is gun a little feedback on what we want of traffic heading west and sixteen so what we were after is doing a significant angled welcoming portion of that and that corner of the building and repeating something similar on the northwest side that's what we see with our relatively tower like angled structures there somewhat like the one of the buildings downtown parag i think is maybe i think there are sixteen total including the four in the garage ok not a reason why i don't know that we've included it up to this point but certainly we be open to that as a discussion i don't know part of the well my question is going to be are the two lots going to a joint well the there is a foot and a half or foot difference between the two so i think that's what marvin was getting whether we're leaving to keep that from happening mall my question of beef you know car traffic i talked about this earlier at the study session that my concern is is that i don't personally like to be going to social village and seeing all these signs all over in front of j p in the coffee shop and margarita's parking for customers only and i know jackie's is going to have to do that when you build this project which i'm glad to see happening in that neighborhood i'm really happy about it but it does not make for good neighbors when we all have our signs up you know that say don't this  you know that that's my issue is that i don't think the fencing the difference in you know height is going to be an issue you don't want somebody i guess i'm concerned for parking in that community until the city does their piece and builds that extra lot with the forty spaces you know how are you going how are we going to maintain a friendly relationship between your business says and jackie's place because the says the south shore village neighborhood that you are building at and so how will you be a good neighbor well in terms of traffic going through there are any anybody  microphone at your cabin one field from mack lake developers and so we're willing to work with staff here as chuck has said there's about an eighteen inch grade change so is it something we could put a fence or if we could just do it natural with some taller grasses or  just you know get some division so people probably aren't stepping over parking there stepping over but we'd be glad to do work with staff and do either you know substantial landscape height or a fence to to make it look  adequate sounds good you know the two parking lots are not connected so they can't drive from one into the other but right that's correct and any other questions or concerns for  anyone have any  yes if i you know whenever to procreate i can kind of launch into a hopefully a subdued staff a review here quickly does any questions for staff and one go ahead mark already sort i've tried to be brief you staff is a very excited about this project in the joy and i have been working very closely with the developers and and it's been a joy working with them and i think that everybody can you know say that you know that what's happening here what will be happening with this development is certainly what's happening with the residential development on the north side of sixteenth street here is a wonderful thing for the saw shore village and really is is kind of being the impetus for continued renaissance of this whole area so we the investment that's looking to go on here is is really an awesome thing so we're really appreciative  so that being said i'm kind of the regulatory guy so i have to kind of point out the the things that we need to get some additional information or or potentially conditions so i'm not going to read all of them the applicant appropriate for them to be that but i'll just kind of quickly run down some of them the applicant is already noted that the very northeast corner of the site or of the building where this kind of the little  northeast corner there that is going to have to be shaved back a little bit because that is in a public storm sewer easement that is running along the east side of the building and that is going to be a believes can be a thirty foot wide easement and and the city engineer is going to be allowing kind of like construction stuff to occur in that easement so having a you know a patio area there and maybe even having you know kind of and so forth that are anchored down that's that's all fine and dandy but we really cannot have a permanent structures included in that area so but that easement language is being worked out between the applicant in the city engineer or maybe it's actually already completed so but that that's kind of a separate issue we've touched on a building materials in dimensions and we do have the sketches that are included in the pack and the applicant is going to help fill in the blanks as to the materials that they're looking to have for this building so i think that we can you can safely have that as a condition of approval that when they have the final final thing staff can review that so item number three is just h back locations that's that's minor touched on the landscaping plan we will be looking to have a low fence  dense or maybe a fence and dense landscaping along that south property line there and really the intent is to do everything we can to discourage people from parking in the jackie's place parking lot and going over to the restaurant businesses that will be on this property here so we want to discourage that in kind of encourage being a good neighbors through the use of a fence or whatever would ever be there there does have to be some changes to the street trees that are being proposed on the site plan here there's quite a few utilities right in the place are right in those areas and and then as the applicant noted to they're looking forward to working with the city and come to some joint planning for the very eastern part of the site that shown to be in law on the landscape planning here so what we're really in those details will come out as the city purchases this property to the east and starts embarking on the in the planning process for what it's going to be and ultimately working up to the new parking lot that will be constructed to the east of here district signage requirements and disses kind of a c one district neighborhood so that might be just the appropriate thing to do and let's see let's let's get down to a number nine  in regards to a parking staff has done a parking analysis in the if the planning commission does applied the c one district parking credit then the applicant is does is providing enough on site to parking spaces twenty parking spaces to have that for residential units and i believe it about thirty two hundred square feet of  dining room area on the first floor that's kind of what we factored in and so so they're they're good to go now the to that is there they do not have  adequate onsite parking to provide for all of the outside no i don't i don't have that particular plan this they provide us with a plan that has all the square footage of the  have enough onsite parking so and i think we in the applicant in everybody knew that from the beginning so we're relying on the construction of the new public parking lot that will be built on the east side of the property here so so staff is is fine with the the what would be a fourteen spaces being credited from the public parking lot to this business and then and then they would totally meet there or there or in inside a parking requirements as well as the outside space but we do not have that a parking lot you know in hand right now so yes are you going to withhold the markets be permitted for the outsides seating until there's a parking lot well we certainly i think the timing of all this is is going to work i'll find it mean if they get approval today and start working and say next month i'm building this site i would dare say that the parking lot in when there are actually two ready to get active at c of the building it's probably going to jewel just i believe that some of the funding requirements because ruby going to be getting some state money for this is that it has to be constructed i believe by september or october ok so we're going to have to development plan based on the staffing board in your including the various proposed conditions on the approval i have a question mark yes just to clarify that so if we approve this it is with the conditions the conditions for number one to proceed as a condition without seeing with the final building footprint be in the northeast corner number two right yes and also for number nine which is the c one district's fifty percent credit it says you will need to specify the outside seating components associated with the commercial uses or not officially approved until the public parking lot of skin structured and opened so does that mean that if we approve this that the outside seating area cannot be opened until the proper parking thank you next item under a new business letter a development plan review for a sixty five unit assisted living center to be located at six thirty seven apple avenue with apple door an assisted living center l c is the applicant recent past the applicant to rangers approach to the planning commission to get this piece of property at six thirty five f eleven rezoned from the r one district residential development district however the planning commission did not approve the conceptual plan and though you remember we had we have quite a few folks so show up for that public hearing in the there were lots of questions about drainage and development plan for your review it's fully engineered is far as drainage is concerned also and brian is in the will turn it over to brian here just a little bit to give an update on the drainage but just to reiterate the proposal ranger's is looking to get approval for a sixty five bed assisted living center and this is to be located immediately north of the forty four bed i believe it's a forty four bed i think it is yes it does it's forty something bed building that's being constructed right now so  property is currently zoned by how in public schools and rangers does have the purchase agreement with the school system to purchase the property contingent on getting approvals so maybe you can quickly turn it over to a brian if you can give the the planning commission a quick review an update on the drainage because i know that was a issue a couple months ago and then it can kind of swing back into a staff review and then we do need to have a public hearing on this also say good evening playing commission members we we've taken a pretty close look at drainage for the site in this development obviously that was a point of concern that's been brought up in the past we wanted to make sure that we  we looked at that pretty thoroughly to the point where we actually brought in a third party company called fischbeck thompson kern huber to actually run a hydraulic model on the drainage coming from the site and developments that are there to date this proposed detention facility would be located to the north of that but all the water would basically flow from this pond here that's being proposed down to that existing pond to the south so basically you'd have these ponds working in series and it does afford some additional drainage benefits excuse me brian yes thank you for using the wrong m at any rate so you have this this be in the north pond here in what's being proposed as part of this specific development that's going to flow again into that south palm the existing pond and south of i do read  as i said they did do a hydraulic bottle on it and we did get some feedback from them today that indicates that this is acceptable and actually exceeds what our standards are and i guess one thing that i wanted to share add for the benefit of the audience as well you know typically on any given development we take into account the existing impervious surface so if there's an existing school an existing building on a property that's going to be redeveloped we typically don't require them to detain for any of that existing impervious service surface but in this case the developers going above and beyond in actually making the assumption that that the site is in in a pervious state basically that there's no impervious surface so that all that are building these pavement things like that they're accounting for in the detention area again which is the worst case scenario it's going to for the most stormwater protection the most flood protection and it is it does go beyond what our standard  is to do that let me see if i follow that you're saying essentially what you're saying is the standard would mean that they could take into account the parking lot in the roof of the building in those kinds of things that are already there in the playground of the rest but what instead the calculations and their plan is based upon is as if that is virgin land completely grassed over no impervious surface whatsoever correct ok thank you and so you know there's some other things that we're having to do along excuse me bryant yeah just to amplify that yeah because what you're basically saying is that any water that had been rolling off the property before with all those of previous services normally you would  what might be helpful for me and maybe others because i know there's a lot of concerns about the creek what drains into that creek and where what kind of area is that what is the name of that drain hurst in so i want to make sure i understand which creek you're referring to one of the one that we get all the letters about the one that goes the neighborhood right across apple avenue yes so i think that's up to the upper reaches of the maplewood drain  and basically the tributary area to that does extend up to you know as far east as us thirty one and it does you know i don't have the drainage boundaries this does require a public hearing yes and we are ready for that if you have any comments questions on this item on the agenda you may come to the podium state any minute dress me up five minutes theresa harrington six four four apple avenue were neighbors clarification five minutes means total i can't come back up it again if i need to later five minutes total ok well so we're going to begin timing and the now all right so here we go and therefore i just basically have you know as a as a neighbor of everybody an apple darn i welcome our senior citizens an ample door in fact i've been for many years of volunteer in the upper door in residence at the end of apple avenue so really we can't ask for better neighbors we're not in a hurricane that but there are some things we do need to bring to attention one is  have seen increased flooding concerns on apple avenue since all of the construction in that area has taken up the from the farm land so that has increased over the years and so our concern is if these proposed you know drainage ditches whatever it is it will are creating here these waterways here if that doesn't work can we have a plan in place to say let's revaluate this isn't a year two years three years and is not working it will be addressed that would be helpful and that would bring a lot of peace of mind i think to apple avenue neighbors who are living there now we do have concerns about the traffic again and those who are living right across from this living concern area here what does that going to mean for nighttime traffic for emergency vehicles for these things that might be flashing through your bedroom windows at night what is that going to look like and that is a concern that you know we have here is there a possible other route that can be taken in order to meet the needs of those living in this new facility and finally my biggest concern is a compromise i think having the facility extend is great but it should be perhaps close to half the size we have three children sparks within one mile there one eternity church one a east middle school and one down the road or prospect park there is nothing no green space for the elderly but we all see the elderly outside walking our sidewalks every day as long as the weather's good so let's give them some green space where chair will chairs and the walkers can have access to some place where the elderly can enjoy and elderly park and i know that that would be a wonderful addition especially since we have made apple avenue such a senior citizen complex now so let's meet those needs all the way you know that's what we are and how and we are people who really care for our seniors and i think we need to take the step and really think outside the box and say ok let's have some real significant green space here that they can take advantage of and not for us walking our dogs did you want to speak to a future plan as far as the drainage if it continues to be an  issue yeah i think you know obviously we're aware that there are some challenges with regard to drainage in this area again it's part of the the maplewood in our county during his district and i think you know we continue to work with the in county drain board on improvements here i actually view this development in and of itself an improvement basically you know we're going to be able to reduce the amount of runoff that normally come from the site that would ultimately get into these the water courses so you know certainly we're going to you know construction make sure that things are functioning the way they're supposed to and if they're not that certainly an opportunity for us to go back and you know revisit any issues with the developer so thank you and he am comments on traffic i mean  vehicles have to be able to access that road correct i mean that would not change their script i mean i mean the number of people visiting this site i mean i don't think that the inhabitants are probably i bought the parcel behind me that goes from the dead and all the way to apple avenue that's at six sixty eight apple avenue and i bought that so that no one would build on it buildings you can see there's a lot of green space around the two buildings that are very nicely manicured it looks great no you know there's been no issue of that whatsoever this is what it looks like now this is called the apple door map additions and proposal so you can see how congested that is and the red line i have down the middle is where that at the last meeting you showed us what was  residential and what was p r t and that shows that the three story building they are behind they have stayed behind that but the the most recent building that they've built has is right up by the road in this next one is going to also be right up by the road and the driver is going to empty out right in front of two houses the next one i have which is called apple darn map additions and waterways and this shows that we're talking about water here so the shows that the drain as they are actually you guys can see it right there is another waterway that's north of the neighborhood too so there is a lot of  so you can see where there is a lot of water issues coming into the neighborhood  what you can see if you google maps to all that green that was there all of those trees have been cut down for the current three story building and there are two large trees in front of what used to be the school in their trees on the back property those are all destined to be cut down i just wanted to give you a few stats on water runoff so every five percent increase in trees reduces water runoff by two percent so then the reverse is true they've taken property that was twenty five percent trees and take them all down and we are seeing water in the in the street all the time one large tree can intercept seven hundred sixty gallons of rainwater in its crown absorb one hundred gallons of water a day through its roots according to a study by virginia tech an average house including the driveway and sidewalks around it so twenty three hundred square feet generates sixty two thousand five hundred gallons of runoff into the local watershed each year which is enough to fish seven tractor trailers with water so imagine as you look at the congestion there of all of those buildings what that is going to do and i know there's apparently studies that say it won't be a problem but we already experience that i'd like to echo what trees there was saying about can we not make this my l t illustration which is called neighbors choice and that is to leave the trees out front and along the north side of the property line reduce the building by half the size  thirds of the acreage for green space and can you not enter from hastings already using the driveway that's coming along behind the three story building behind it and not have this driveway coming right smack into our neighbors  i also have some photos there that i sent along that will show you what the development looks like and case you didn't know and what what our neighborhood has turned into  just to give an inch and i'm doing this is i'm going to read a letter from pew and paulo was saying which they are it's six six eight brookside in the past few years we have had more and more concerned with the flooding of the creek that travels on two sides of our property going back in history in the one nine hundred eighty s we had a horrible rain and it took the city seven truckloads of dirt to fill in the washout at that point they dug the one foot deep creek and made it four feet deep with a small lining at the bottom they also made a ninety degree turn in it which makes for powerful water shoot a fuse later we had another wash out again truckloads of dirt were needed then four or five years ago another hundred year rain fell in our whole backyard was flooded the water came up on our sliding doors about twelve inches the water was so strong that it washed up our bridge it floated downstream ending up six houses away the culvert at the and of our street was so overwhelmed that the water went over it washed the street out again the city put several truckloads of tour in and had to replace pavements at this time twenty four straight washed out for the second time or creek leads directly into the twenty fourth street culvert now you are covering massive amounts of lands for the new apartments cottages and roads the water has nowhere to go except into our creeks this is a disaster waiting to happen the present water flow path will not be able to handle the increase in nighttime ok if you get them in but we have we did get that he mail as well so ok we have seen it thank you thank you carla low low pressure area apple in our little subdivision brookside twenty six and i had a read as high pressure zone are they going to tap off and are they going to connect to the main on apple if they are they're going to be on a low pressure zone in are they going to plan on increasing the pressure i have talked to a engineer at the b p w and he said  that they really didn't want to turn the pressure up on our area because of the older plumbing and so because the old pipes would be possibly breaking you know once you go from of like a thirty pounds of pressure to seventy five eighty years which i had read as you potentially were going to have some problems so i wondered about that and also on the sewer system the sewer doesn't run directly down apple it stops and starts it stops at twenty seven and heads north and then it runs down twenty something either way a twenty something apple any way when our house was built and most of these houses were built there wasn't a sewer there they all had sceptics so they put the sewer main in and when ours mine personally has a floor drain so that when that line comes out it's almost level with that sewer main so with the potential of sixty five more toilets flushing kitchens and all this stuff going on i see a potential sewer backings and i don't i wouldn't like that march in and if it does happen is who's going to be responsible for that so i've heard according to the plans i see in the main th worst service is going to run to the apple and then the twenty six main so that's my concerns i haven't heard any answers about that and i also wonder the school property i don't know which is it generally somebody just put an offer and purchased the city property or the school property or wasn't the the property put up for bid or is for sale it i mean does anybody kno area i guess that's all i got ok thank you bill brian do you have any input on the the the main trainer applicant we are planning to connect to the center sewer in apple the water main we have two choices we can either connect to the water main in apple and if we have to write a booster pump is only one story building so we don't need a lot of pressure but we do need fire service for the building so we can either provide a fire pump and provide water off of the low pressure or there is a water main or apple apple kind of get off the hastings that we could tie into as well which is on the high pressure so i think we have that two actions there you can do you know which option you're and the school purchase process i personally do not know how the school went about doing that maybe it surely woodruff from our readers can maybe it least tell us how they approach to home public schools and how they may be found out of the property was available etc i think but i want to i think that the real issue is that that's not something the city's involved with because it's not  it was the schools property how they dispose of their property i'm not sure how that works so i don't know what you know we would basically be speculating at this particular moment as to the process the school  any other comments from the public it's a lot of water but like i say it doesn't happen all the time they are there at least fix the drainage so they can handle the water that does go down if they haven't i don tributary to the inner kind of drain so that's not set up as a like a routing course for the drain itself and is it subject to the intercounty drain board control or is that under the city's control yeah that really is the city thing now now it would be a possibility  too if there is a desire to extend the inner county drain influence you know that certainly is a possibility that can be looked into you know something that we typically do when we resurface  is you know we'll look at culverts and things like that so if there's there's issues we'll address them i can tell you though that just looking at this development if we if we take the development and not the existing drainage into into consideration here this development really is going to help the drainage issue ation i can't stress that enough that you know these ponds are sized to one hundred year events so you know they're going to be holding back a lot of water which wouldn't have been held back particularly in the school's case so i really think it's a net benefit to have a drainage feature like this being being constructed as part of this development so i know that's hard to gauge just because the hard surface is coming along with it but that hard surface if you really think about it is already there at least it was with the school so and to the point to it and i appreciate the th oughts about you know the observations and things like that with these recent storm that's something that i think that the audience should be aware of is particularly that two thousand and nine storm about the two thousand and  and thirteen in april eighteen i believe of twenty thirteen those all were top ten significant storm events top ten in terms of intensity and  in volume so so over the last several years we've really experienced some pretty unique and significant storm about so it's not something that we certainly design for you know typically our road culverts are on the order of a twenty five year design so i guess i just want to make that known that you know that's kind of the the way we approach things and really those storm events particularly those recent ones were  unique events thanks fran and brian just to clarify what you're saying too is that there was no drainage con there with the school there correct that's what i get yeah so this would help with that whole issue yeah when you compare it to the school and what that condition was yes and there will be continually evaluation that yes so that's something that we typically do is you know keep an eye on  the public hearing is still open please come forward if you would like to say something from karen meyer and i live in three seventy east twenty six street and also the fact that i'm worried about all the water that's going to be falling around into our neighborhood i know the neighbor next door to us he already has the drain problems and he gets flooded into his lower level of his house and he cannot be here today to to mention that but i thought that they made to sent an e mail down here we have a received that are on record ok and i just wanted to know that there are more concerned we're all sitting here more concerned about everything that's going on and the green space that they said they were going to do when they bought the property here extended the property from the school that has not ever shown up it's all been brown so just just to let you know that we have more people that are thinking about this and worried about the things that are happening and if the drains and stuff happens at that doesn't come in control it is there any way that we can like they say a couple years revaluated mean that's what brian was saying earlier brian and correct me if i'm wrong but there will be continually evaluation of the situation the pond like you just said is the landowners responsibility and keeping else my name's linda cooper and i live it for seventy eight mil roles which is part of thorn apple ridge condo development on the north side north east side of this development not another development my concern is the last time that we had this meeting i think there were four things there reindeers was going to address one of the drainage the other one was how close the property lines were together i know you can build within ten feet of the property line but it felt like it was right in the backyard i mean right close we wanted them to back off a little bit and i know that this is going to be an an all simers unit that  tended a lot of their meetings and what's it been ten years i think that they've been good neighbors one thing that we did ask that we have is a berm which kind of divided three started building from our condo development and on that berm we wanted all these pine trees that would eventually grow together and protect us a little bit we are unable to perform a berm or have a berm done between this assisted living facility and the houses in the corner of thorn apple ridge so we had asked for some struck reef some greenery something to be placed to divide have seen the plans i know that they're going to do these trees and these bushes and all this but the thing is we've had all these bushes put between apple and the berm and th there they've been dying and they did replace some of them but they said they would replace them ever again it's too costly my feeling is if they if they're granted permission to develop the site they can't do a berm and they're going to do all this greenery that they be responsible for replacing that green when it doesn't grohl they need to do that and they did not do that and are going to do apple or between foreign apple and apple tart salaam i'm concerned about that i don't know too much about the drainage i do know that affects all the homes and  i know that they cut back on there the building i think it was within ten feet before and i think it's now fifteen to their patio and then twenty five to the building so i mean they're dressed in things but i think we've got a way to go here ok thank you very much thank you linda and mark just as a bit of clarification because we've run into this a couple times when we approve a site plan with landscaping that's the landscaping that needs to be there forever absolutely so you know the one caveat that will add to that is i mean when a developer you know plants a bunch of trees i mean they're like conifers they're planting six eight foot tree ok as as those things grow when well you know when we had i think most people understand there is going to be a certain mortality rate to trees i mean brand new trees when they get planted not one hundred percent of them are going to live ok there's going to be some die back but presumably the landscape plans are made such that as the trees grow you're going to get bigger that's what living things do so they kind of fill in the voids or whatever ok so that's that's just all generally understood now if there is a lot of trees that are dying in the landscape plant is not performing that screening in effect the way that it there is the retaining pondered tension pond just to the east of that is the northernmost property boundary or building site to the northern property line what is the now i will add that up they are proposing to have a little pointed out here for you is the red cursor showing up yes yes ok so yes so this this line right here is a twenty five foot setback and this is going to be a kind of an internal courtyard area so there's no sides on it's just a rough thing staff does not see that is particularly to be the big issue but we're happy to see the twenty five foot step back to the main building the other set backs while we're while we're on the issue you know on the east property line here the setbacks are not near as much but this is an eternal property line you're reading here so far as i'm concerned as howdy i came a little late into the whole thing so i'm trying to figure out what's going on but i understand that there's been just a second stage name and address robert harrington six forty four apple avenue did you hear the thing about the lights e f five minutes  so there's two proposals that were put out there and i haven't heard in neither has anybody else heard about these proposals first one about exit in an interesting and hastings avenue only not apple i don't think apple can  handle the kind of traffic that has to go there and the green space that was supposed to be for the park for the seniors i have not heard of any and i have not heard anybody else say anything about but proposal public practice that who you're referring to me you're talking about those in the public to have made that yes ok yes if you want to keep going with your whole thing i haven't written down and we can ok but those are the two things that i need to find out for sure we have poles building and i'm asking where is that draining going off to also with the i don't want to go back into our storm drains that we have because they're already taxed so we're else would they go it's just basically the three things that i am addressing to the council right now thank you thank you if the applicant would like to address the entering and exit and hastings versus week there's a proposal before us from rangers you know the suggestions made by the public as to alternative proposals are things that we can obviously consider and we do consider but they're not proposals in the same sense that the property owner comes to us with a with a concrete proposal so i guess  i would just say that is in you know certainly i think we'd all like to have me i'd like it if my neighbor didn't have a house and his yard and i had green space there but he'd probably say the same thing about me  y know he would so i don't know maybe on the exiting interesting question we can get some insight as to why rangers as designed the proposal as they have but as far as the you know  neighbor's view that maybe we could cut the thing in half the i don't know that's really something certainly we can say to someone wanted to do it that way because you know they've they've come to us with a correct as far as access goes we are our plan is to come off of apple with there's a bank of garage ports on the east property line that's and congregate care facility that comes up to hastings and it's pretty much along that whole east property line in the great difference between where they always are at where our building is going to be at is about a three foot differential so even if those graduates weren't there there's a big great transition that goes on right there so that's why and brooke if i could just chime in you know it is far as a traffic and so forth coming from the property and access and so forth you know i think we've got to remember here that this was a school property and you know at one day it was probably a very busy elementary school for the whole public school system and there were lots of boats a bus traffic and probably lots of kids on bikes and parents come and pick them up than in the morning and in the afternoon and they probably even had evening events so there was a lot of traffic historically to this property and you know up obviously it's dropped off over the past year because the school isn't there but i mean i think we have to you know as you weigh comments regards traffic and so forth you know keep in mind that there was a lot of traffic going to the site before in and if we asked the applicant you know how many trips you know this this thing is going to generate and daily basis is probably going to be a whole lot less than what the school historically had so know even without the school is a standard  but for this type across section yes it's got adequate two lanes in both directions public hearing is still open there's no one else i e close the public hearing comments discussion from commission members if i could just quickly add the staff recommendation is to approve the development plan with the six proposed conditions to go on that and just real quickly staff recommending that the landscaping component is beefed up a little bit along the north property line the applicant is showing a lot of trees screening fences to augment the landscaping that shown there there are some residential homes that are probably within fifty feet or so of the north property line and they have their or their backyards i believe oriented  you know two to the applicants property here so there are some there are some privacy issues in the same could be you know said for the thorn and for rich people to the north in the northeast you know so there's there's a legitimate edge should get a new public sidewalk or or integrating existing sidewalk additionally in regards to the onsite parking requirements technically our ordinance would require sixty five parking spaces it's it requires one parking space per dwelling unit sixty five well in units or apartments i think we can be very safe to say that this development is not going to need that amount of parking so i'm fairly i'm very confident that the applicant i'm proposing thirty two onsite spaces they know many parking spaces they need for developments this is what they do and  i'm very comfortable with the recommended thirty two spaces for that so those those are a few of the a significant ones any questions at all on the staff linda i just do have a common first half and brian is still here so that's good because it's really directed towards bryan that i have heard a lot of complaints that neighbors have had flooding issues and so i think that this needs to be looked at in this neighborhood because we are going to be adding more buildings and impervious space to this neighborhood and if they've already had flooding issues and people's basements are flooding we need to be looking into that you know do we need a different storm drain system out there to carry some of the water just a suggestion that you work with the neighborhood you know sounds like brian but i think if i'm understanding this correctly  though this will actually gather more of the water than what was there and what's happening right now now is that going to be sufficient to stop a five hundred year flood from from flooding you know  this neighborhood probably not and and you're right if you know this is one of those areas and i know this has been an area that we've talked about before and in amongst other areas in the city that you know we're we're getting two of them as we you know have the resources to do them we did lincoln avenue we've done things on the twenty fourth street things on central avenue things on fortieth street  since two thousand and two thousand and nine we had these you know one hundred five hundred you know one percent half a percent chance of floods happening but as we look at this particular project on this particular site i think if i'm understanding brian correctly and if i trust him which i do and you've also been outside firm look at this and they came to the same conclusion you did which is that this will actually gather more when this is constructed when it's done it will gather more water and retain more water on site than what is presently happening as we sit here tonight in my hearing and understanding that correctly yeah that is correct and and i know i'm i speak in engineering terms so  apologize for that but but that is in essence if if we take this project and look at it on a on a project specific basis this is definitely a net benefit from a drainage standpoint to the area because these these facilities these detention basins are being installed there was long as it one more question for you brian there's a question raised a bit ago about some of the water runoff from the parking lot area that goes into the drainage features along apple so again it's really above and beyond what we would typically ask for in a development but i think they recognize the fact that there are some drainage challenges out there  that aren't necessarily involved with this particular project but i think they're doing what they can do to try and improve the area and i think you know something that the city does and particularly our opportunity to get at some of these issues downstream like in the brookside area is when we do go in there and resurface or perform some some work on the streets we're going to certainly look at those areas and and see if we can make improvement in their questions or comments to commission members now well i guess i would just say this i mean we have to look at each individual development pose development on its own and i look at the water issues and i think this at minimum won't make it worse probably makes it better if again if you believe what brian or the other engineers are saying we look at the the buffer if you will between the northern edge of where this property abuts it's non similar own neighbors and we've got a pretty substantial distance and buffer there certainly basically what what we would would require in addition we're boosting some of the landscaping that will provide extra shielding and if some of it's not being taken care of right now you know we're going to take a look at that  because i think we all under and i know we all understand that you know when property changes hands when it changes uses there is you know many times we like things to stay as they are and  course they never do and i think we all understand that when the question we have to ask is is this consistent with the zoning is it a project that meets the specifications that we have and especially in this particular project is it going to address its own water issues and not add to the problems that are already there and from what i'm seeing what i've read in the report what i'm hearing from our engineers and the outside engineering firm and the project engineer for the for the applicant  in fact it's going to do those things so i'm having a difficult time saying this shouldn't be approved absent someone saying gee we don't want this kind of facility in this location and in my view that's it fits within the zoning so that is an insufficient reason to not approve of the facility as it's been presented to us  german yes i have another question may i ask the developer yes ok i heard the neighbors talk about green space and par for the elderly because you have a beautiful several beautiful developments there can you someone step to the podium and talk about what your plans are on your property what do you have in place for walking paths for green space for the elderly community that you've built and that you're planning to build the public sidewalk all of the interior walkways that connect to that public walkway the areas of the solace of the building which connects the two buildings also is connected to  connected on through to the apple dorn complex to the east that's on the southeast corner and on the northeast corner that connects to the pathways and walk or years of apple d a building that's to the east the three story one an internal basis we have benches in front of the main entrance of the building for people to rest or to wait for somebody to pick them up we also commercial for all over it looks like you have a large patio near your alzheimer's unit from your dementia unit on the north end of your building ok great thank you hopeless not too late but i just want to specify for the record that we did receive an email from a dug in paula hooker of six twenty four melrose drive and planning commissioners did receive a copy of that and that avenue and the wrist one other one ok no those those were the three so that all of all of those were provided to the planning commission yes they w comments questions motion this is the flight plan review correct it is correct so it is approved with the planning commission action here tonight writes thank you all for coming in your comments i hope that we answered your questions and if you have any other concern you can forward letters and comments to the neighborhood and community services department seven east eighth street from the are three residential district to see two highway commercial district l l c is the applicant all right ready fairbanks ave and the back portion it's about thirty feet or so of three zero seven east eighth street these properties are all zoned our three residential district at this time in the african tos requesting that those be rezoned to the sea to highway commercial district additionally in really kind of go it goes hand in hand his or his the request for a site plan  requesting that the planning commission approve a new commercial parking lot to be located on the three o two in three zero eight west seventh street properties the property  one seventy fairbanks avenue will just remain in the grass so in the back part of the eighth street property will be a kind of a continuation of the parking lot also so bring it back to the rezoning map here and said we would like to purchase your properties or we'd like to see your homes go away or something that nature and this is all all a part of when the b p w was assembling a large amount of properties  in this area for the new power plant and you can see on the screen there the kind of the red area that's kind of shown on the now the cursor isn't to work in there  wants to not have any residential uses in the immediate vicinity of the power plant and they have entered into negotiations with the brunettes and we're basically coming to street in the other one a fair banks avenue there and then seeding the ground and just getting it back to a natural state the brunettes will they'll be with them be building the parking lot on the north side of the request staff is a prepared the typical murmur memorandums for your review in regards to the rezoning request staff is recommending approval of the request in your in your reading through the report i just i just want to point out though that you know the number one criteria that we look at when a revalue weighting rezoning requests is how does the re request align with their master plan for the community and in this state or them in this situation there is not alignment ok the master plan for this area is that is a part of the two thousand and seven sharpening the vision plan for the downtown area and that plan basically called for this whole area to be rezoned to the c three district in and that's a policy that is still on the books ok albeit two thousand between two thousand and seven in now is a sea change of what has happened in this neighborhood so we can very safely say that the master planned for for this block in this area east of the sec's come to hamilton the railroad spur the master plan is simply out of date and needs to be updated and you are very much aware that we embarking on a master plan update process which is going to take it he'll eight to ten months or a year in so doing so we just got to stay up front that the rezoning request is technically not in a t with the master plan however there's a good reason for that and so we can roll with that so with the site plan review planning or staff i recommending approval of the site plan also with a few conditions as noted in the staff report so public hearings are required for both of these  you may elect to have one combined public hearing because it's pretty much mostly got information so all right can i do that now open a public hearings are there was one request we did have and that was a waiver for the sidewalk requirements which i guess i can give to that mark yes go ahead  is why the reason for the request of a long seven street correct three any other comments and if you don't have a mark sent here for questions i guess basically ok i will open the public hearing and i have a closed public hearing was there i'm sorry oh i'm going to put ok any questions from commission members requirement they're supposed to be a change for the city water and sewer is for ours was that all addressed in the conditions yeah ok all next plan review for a new commercial parking lot to look at it will use that same month i just didn't read it do i still need to read it for the record no letter d request for a one year extension to be approved  plan for a new west michigan community bank to be located at six seventy one michigan avenue development is the applicant and they are not here do we still move forward with that oh yeah ok scott scott was here right at five o'clock leans on behalf of west i believe is west michigan community bank came in and was successful in getting this property a michigan avenue result to the c five district here as well as getting the site plan review for a one year extension as they do anticipate doing this construction project in the spring of two thousand and sixteen all right need a motion movie to well support th marvin from a distance yes all those in favor all right opposed all right moving on communications and petitions scheduling public hearings there are none correct and it's correct unifications from commission members none communications from staff right now we join i have to a huddle we don't know for sure once if we're going to ask you for a second meeting this month or not  yet we're still ramping up with our master plan consultant if we do have substantive information that needs your review we will be asking for the second meeting but right now i think it's