in the decision below judge kelly relied upon the fujitsu decision and also relied upon the old and leads decision now those are cases where congress has given an instruction for example suspend liquidation of the entry or liquidate the entry of a given rate and those instructions are not question what's question is whether customs in liquidating an entry properly carried out those instructions now it's entirely possible that at the end of the day this case may sort of fall into the all the leads or fujitsu baskets but we don't know yet we don't know yet and that's the point what we do know is that the liquidation instructions that were issued and that were challenging under the administrative sheetrock and which are supposed to telkom are accustomed when the suspension of liquidation was lifted don't do that starting the notice was supposed to start a six month window for customs to liquid it now it's pretty clear from the record that the liquidation notice is wrong that the june thirteenth two thousand and thirteen order druggers money didn't left the suspension liquidation in fact when the message furniture industry asked her for an order which she'd issued on that date they asked her to honest pretty clear on what she's doing the order the judge or saudi issued wasn't lifting the suspension of with what a ship that had been lifted before and she knew that what her order was was  execution of her final draft now this leaves open the question on what date if ever did the commerce department communicate liquidation instructions to customer what date that the commerce department felt customs validate on which the suspension of liquidation had lifted and on which the six month period began to run now i don't know you say i don't know that gets me what i want to get well i do know that a protest does not get me a review of the validity of congress liquidation instructions and that would be based on this court's decision years ago in the let's say we get our administrative review and let's say that we discover that the liquidation instructions are the correct lifting of suspension was communicated to customs on a different date the four month gap between the day judg lifted the suspension and this improper notice of whatever went out from congress we mary well may be able to say these are entries are deemed liquid and ask this court in this fifteen eighty one i action to so one of two things can follow from that this court could say in this fifteen eighty one i action yeah those liquidations are invalid and set them aside that's what the court did in the second yes when we talk about liquidation it's very possible the court might decide well i'm going to declare it invalid not set it aside in which case and we have a defense to a collection actually you run through the wormhole because to get the judicial review i'm looking for here what i'm looking for here is an a p a review i'm bringing an action in equity what i want the commerce department to do is to file the energy i see there are many not reading up on the other hand invite the court's attention back to the conical case they can't use the protests to get to a decision of another agency even if that decision is going to merge into liquidation ok the protest is not a magic gateway in the cases that judge kelly talked about her decision cases like all that leads there was no question about what commerce should check for example in the all the needs case commerce had told customs to spend liquidation customs disobeyed that were and liquidated well that's a customs mistake and you've got to file a protest to under that mistake but in this case we don't know the customs did anything wrong customs liquidate within six months after what they were told was today to lifting a suspension or liquidation what we're saying here is customs was told wrong that it was the commerce department that committed the er and we we think we believe we very well might get it once again and you can review where another case well this wouldn't be a question of review in court in another case this would be a question of relief if this court were to say i'm just going to give you declaratory relief that those instructions were invalid and that you have a dream like what a shit and then if the government brings us case against us to collect these duties we have a cherry hill defense and say you can't collect these duties because liquidations are invalid it is possible that we may find that the proper date of lifting of suspension was never and to this day has not been communicated t and it i think it simply clarified that deemed liquidations as a class are subject to protest but again any liquidation any decision that's going to be subject we're saying customs that acted on bad instructions customs is going to say we made no decision we carried out a ministerial function based on the instructions we were given if those instructions were problem just as a going to in the conoco case again protest is not a magic window to go look into the records and look into the decisions of other agencies even if those other agencies are then informing customs what to do and you and as the court noted previously that the holding was then included in the amendment of section fifteen fourteen later on and the second place has to do with the whole timing issue and that's a p thirteen seventy nine where the court explained that the suspension of liquidation does not lift until the period for all appeals is exhausted and simply looking at the calendar in this case trial court issued its final judgment in february the appeal period expired in april so the earliest that any of could have no longer been subject to the suspension of liquidation was the deadline for appeal in april and then the entries all liquidated in september five months later so  only hope i can match mr to see him brevity there obviously isn't much to rebut here this action is to set aside liquidation instructions  consequence of that may be that liquidations are ruled invalid and that this court may set aside liquidations or the court of international trade down that road may hold them to be unenforceable the things that mr  referred to whether there is some legislatively mandated sixty day stay and then appeal that's to sit it's question you're not going to reach until you reach the merits of the liquidation instructions  we're not going to know when the six month period for customs liquidate runs until we know when if ever that agency got valid liquidation instructions from customs and i mean that's that's the whole the whole point here i mean what mr to see he was talking about is this notion that congress somehow imposed a sixty day stay on the enforcement  rules only contain one stay of execution of any judgment and it's a thirty day stay in the rules which can be shortened or extended on on motion so i mean that's another and fascinating subject for a different day once we get our jurisdiction established here and we find out when the liquidation instructions were set but i would disagree with mr to seanie that congress