there was a requirement to bargain collectively there is a duty for collective bargaining and section eight there is a requirement that the parties agree to arbitration unless they naturally agreed to otherwise so that's the law in the for what happened a few years later the supreme court had the issue come up in the city of decatur versus the a what happened in that case is that the city had passed the civil service act and they said we're not going to bargain collectively because that there's a perceived certain ways to handle this the only supreme court said you have to you have to sit down you have to bargain collectively you don't have to come up with an agreement to arbitrate but you have to have the duty to bargain a year later ninety nine this court  district had a very interesting case and what they did is they were her judge who's black a very learned judge who's flack who's now a bankruptcy judge but what happened in that case was there was a board of fire and police commissioners and the police officer was suspended for three days there was some language in that collective bargaining agreement that dealt with a grievance procedure that an off the board of fire police commissioner you could petition the sergeant or something just whack said look according to aid you have to go along with the arbitration listen what sense does that make you go through a hearing in front of the board of fire police commissioner and now you have another hearing and arbitration they said it would lead to an irrational and absurd result no other case cited that and the illinois supreme court denied the petition so the village of creve coeur versus fletcher is really what if this court finds that the agreement was valid and forcible should hang their hat on it because just like in that situation we're stuck with the mere rational and absurd issue that was an eighteen in one nine hundred ninety nine act america mission specifically had situations to deal with both the motion and discipline of its county officers they were trying to get him to sit down and do collective bargaining he said no time with the having an expiration date of november thirtieth we need twenty eight and that collective bargaining agreement they recognize most specifically recognizes the whole you know and at that point  time not all sat you don't have the duty to bargain the section sixteen point eight specifically you said that any disciplinary action imposed by decision of the american you have no idea how to handle stuff or what's also interesting about the time in which the collective bargaining agreement was and then to is the law that should apply her that person's parker seventy two the last three d her sister kate's at a seventy nine says at the past and says it's the time at which the contract was negotiated that you have to look at well eventually the legislature and then get around to a man collective bargaining agreement that if there's anywhere in that collective bargaining agreement on a term that doesn't deal with the american mission or the civil service act or it worth fire police commissioners out that you have to do arbitration in fact the village of kook or versus function or separate i said this morning it's the whole thing and there is no requirement that the school or force john thompson to arbitrate the decision of the thompson filed charges against john dahl on january sixth on the fop which had negotiated this contract and also which there is no assignment for any future party to enforce the rights of the parent was decertified january the illinois labor relations board well if they believed that the collective bargaining agreement was enforceable and that arbitration was the sole way to handle the disputes contractually between the parties then they elected their remedy by going outside the scope of the collective bargaining agreement and filing actions with the labor relations board another action was filed march eleventh so the they they picked their poison sheriff's america mission so then what happened was the sheriff just like inflection is having to defend from all different actions all different sides from the labor relations board now that both parties agree that the first issue to be decided in this appeal is whether the circuit court erred women interpreted the collective bargaining agreement to require arbitration the parties dispute when a question of interpretation arises it is fundamental that the court adopt a construction of the contract that is reasonable rather than which would produce an irrational or absurd was all goes on to say that supreme court could then according to the circuit court's interpretation proceed through the regular grievance procedure where police officers immediate sergeant could review and decide i'm treating the decision of the supreme court there saying that's a rational and observer and i would argue that the same thing applies here now we're not changing years and years and years of union contract and it's not can be a political hot issue just like the village of creek or vs question wasn't a political hot  and i'm sorry i don't have the west wall or insight it's twenty twelve westlaw for twelve seven two nine nine and what happened in that case it was a nursing home residents a state brought a action pursuant to side power of attorney and eventually administrator of the estate of this person can't super wrongful death of nursing home care and they said if you're not a party because you're not a party at the time you entered into it for the wrongful that bad because that doesn't come until after the person not used then that portion of that arbitration agreement as a forcible over what was really interesting is that the portion of the attorney can negotiate all that right mr moyles argues no without citing any case law or the statutes that the p b l c even though it's not a party to the contract is an implied party to the contract because of public policy because the p v l c now stands in the shoes of the fop after the expiration of the contract but the contract doesn't say that cover doesn't say it applies to heirs assigns or anyone else it specifically applies to the parties that entered into the contract so if a nursing home resident who is infirm i am through their administrator can bargain away abuse i would certainly thing that a bargaining and collective bargaining agreement would apply in the same fashion if you're not a party to the contr american mission the sheriff is also defending actions in front of labor relations for judge hagel and it's in the transcript and i noted that in the three judge panel asked mr boyles what relief are you seeking with the labor relations board the same relief  seeking here so it's just another bite and yeah and that's where that's the myriad of the problems that we're having but i think if if the court can focus on the collective bargaining agreement first of all that appeals he doesn't have the right to enforce that because i'm not a part and second of all that they chose alternate remedy used in violation whether if they were a party to the action made and they violated the contract and and then to a breach of contract and then third even if they didn't read the language prevails because there is no step for so how do you proceed arbitration the court should know that the labor board that case very proceeded we went to the late reported ministry of law judge ruled for mr dove ordered her reinstatement of the county and the sheriff have accepted to that alternately i imagine this court will get that particular decision directly because review from the labor board comes directly to the appellate court so that's already packed and i think the other half of the lawsuit the other case that is consolidated here there are several things so the basic facts another thing something else that miss in front of i think her entire argument is that this clip the bargaining expired the two thousand with the collective bargaining agreement it's it's a collective bargaining agreement did not expire in the member thirty thousand ten there was an election labor board heard in the election late december what representative number that brings me to the next point the sheriff is just half of the equation i think it in their reply brief the sheriff indicated that he elected to continue the pay the employees you like to do continue to continue their hours with the only exception being he wasn't going to continue to honor sixteen point eight but this year doesn't set pay for these employees to share doesn't determine the health insurance from this account he does those things share supervises them from day to day but we only have half of the equation arguing here today to you and the other side of this so there's another party that we brought into circuit court that's not here today number five and this is probably the most important thing this is even a public safety employees but these are not traditional public serv the act is designed to section fourteen is designed so that once there is a labor union in place for a bargain union of peace officers or firefighters there always has to be a contract section fourteen mandates interest arbitration it sets a deadline is for things to happen the whole theory the whole reason behind section fourteen being the way that it is is that your public safety employees it's into public policy for public contract or the terms of the contract continue under section fourteen we understand that the sheriff is relying upon some of the policy considerations underlying basic contracts in this wants to play a basic contract and we understand that in basic contract while the theory the goal is to make sure th people live up to the bargains and part of that theory is that people really enter into every lation shipping can freely walk away from their relationship that is not the reality under which these collective bargaining agreements see that relationship is always there and that the parties don't walk away from one way or the other unless there was a decertification with no new exclusive representative which is not not what happened here so we understand strike if you can you're going to want to know what is happening in all these different situations but what happens is that's true for why we're here is because we have irrational and different positions although he's but the sheriff did not and so you've got one decision of america mission that is statutory that he has to do and now he's got another ruling that he's got to deal with at appeal and attorneys fees and costs and dealing with that on that issue is now and he didn't bargain about when we talk about remain calm fifteen dash seven there is also some language in there that it says the duties impose upon employers employees and labor organizations pursuant to three or four shall become l c does not have the right to enforce the contract because they're not a party to the current so what you're having is labor organizations that are basically holding to an extent  landscape that is the negotiation of labor contracts but that's what we're dealing with here in the p b s he does not happen right to enforce the terms and the bottom line is the contract doesn't provide for arbitration v when mr boyle's talked about the shares near mission act it doesn't say that that you have to have mandatory arbitration the language and i'm going to quote specifically from that however on or after june first two thousand and seven and then the sheriff's office with a collective bargaining agreement covering the employment of department personnel such disciplinary measures and the method of review of those measures shall be subject to mandatory bargaining which is the creek court case not saying mandatory arbitration mandatory bargain including comma but not limited comma the use of impartial arbitration as an alternative or supplemental form of due process so stop for could have been anything when the parties got around to negotiating the terms of that but they didn't and then that the labor organization that negotiated that term is gone and we have the pv all see who doesn't have a contract so the the fact that they american mission which is required by statute to do arbitration which is what he was ordered to and the labor relations board which is outside the scope of the agreement that he agreed to so there is going to be inconsistent results it's going to go on ad infinitum and on appeals in all of these different venues and that's not the share mar not only that it was missed out that walked out of the american mission so she walked out of so if she was so concerned about due process she didn't stick around to see that through so the sheriff doesn't have the benefit of her testifying when she took the fifth amendment and then walked out doesn't have the benefit of using that against from these other proceedings