before our or to delve into the various agenda items that we have posted those tests a friend have three minutes and three minutes only sorting through this committee's posting  above the roadway in can i this is an access road down to the peninsula has over the past several years in increased amount of landslides onto the  roadway some more severe than others but of late because of the large trees that are growing alongside them up the hill when the winds in the heavy rains come it pulls down the hillside in and discharges all the large boulders and community she was able to witness the situation that we have one way in and one we are only of the same same road so we have three three elderly couples three elderly individuals that live there on the peninsula that we have to physically help off the peninsula if the roadway is impaired we enable to drive up the road w about an hour or so away and the state highways are consumed with all of their own work john smith and david good have been working with us diligently in trying to get this roadway upgraded  and the rockfall intervention in place because we have a dilemma that i spoke with you mr holcombe about the state owns the hillside there under the deal and are i've been approaching and working with them with your points or your areas of concern we get to listen to what you have to share with us a favor of questions we may call you back if you're still here or we will present it to the department and or appropriate agencies that can provide us with the response required for us to take action at times during the testimony from other people coming from money from county they are allowed a little few more minutes we come all the way in from can i i was asking the same consideration committee's diligence deception is to find out if there are other responsible parties that need to participate in rectifying the situation ok and that's part of what communities the community would do prior to making person all right and other than that you would not be participating in any type of discussion once the committee goes into deliberations no one else is allowed to participate ok i understand that and that is regardless of what i will and what  three important to all of us here thank you very much thank you very much like to dennis guy who e if you would come forward and share his comments please canards place it is something that will happen and when it happened who schoolie are no is so that's the reason why i am here to voice my myself what  move to the first i don't the first item is amendments to the fiscal year two thousand and sixteen budget kit and i wrote see improvements as you know i have who has regarding this project or this issue the road as i understand it is the counties the land that is impacting this road it's the state of hawaii and the state is the property owner that it's allowing things to fall on to the colony right of way and the column you wrote system so as you chair i have you know i understand if we have responsibilities that we address it and deal with it but again as you know you chair i will not pay for th director department public works and  on some of the issues if there's you know i guess legal questions as to who's responsibility but a little bit of background i did hand out a couple pictures so you take a look at a recent slide that happened in november shape some of the rocks you can see that are kind of typical for that part of the mountain there and some of those rocks and other rocks have fallen in the on the road side we originally actually had this in our  sixteen budget request it was removed during deliberations and i do recall at that time the committee did ask our department and we said we we think we could delay this year however since that time we've had a few slides including this one here in november so the man does seem to be moving a bit at the current moment and hence the need to bring us back to the committee the funds were asking for  e planning and a lot of studies that need to be done on the mountainside understand its characteristics a lot of survey work it's our understanding that the roadway is i think within our right away but it's hugging one side the mountain side and there is tension a room within our right a way to move it away from the mountain a little bit we also need to do an environmental assessment because the nature of the work and we also need to do a nasa may because in the estimate a strike so a combination of all those factors is one of the reasons we're asking for a fair amount of money and a half million dollars to get through without our intent is to work with the entries our intent is to share with them our findings on the slope stability analysis and the soils investigation work and he identified hazards as are done part of that that report  or series of reports with the further intent to centrally but the state on notice if you will that this project is something that they should be contributing towards what that responsibility or share should be i really don't know at this time but i do know we have an immediate hazard condition and it is our road that we should be taking some action to you know to mitigate it doesn't mean  committee and i thank you for scheduling item today where we thank you for your updated report direct to good and we appreciate your efforts to this point so mister so the committee can because they own the property i mean we just want to know what is the property owner's responsibility if any we get in this type of situations thank you yeah generally speaking you do have a duty as a landowner to you know senior property in a safe manner to protect neighboring properties because it is the state a little different there are there the state government so they have different protections and as far as our duty to maintain the road and keep it in a safe condition as you are aware we we have that obligation also hope it helps think you committee is well aware and i believe from previous actions this committee has no major issues with the county doing its responsibility we just feel that that property owner you're going to the state has some responsibility as the owner but the annoying very unsafe situation and i'm just asking if we need to the county need to send them a letter and say we hereby notify you of being unsafe condition that currently exists the and we asked for your i mean they could put up routine entrances right now right if they wanted to survey where that line is on almost vertical slope so there's a good chance that the property line is somewhere on the slope not immediately at the toe or at the so one of the things we're going to use extreme updated survey of the reactor which will be a little tricky and i understand could be repellent down to find a final property line here other than that is there anything else the county can do to  i think in that letter we can include for instance your committee report concludes a discussion on this we can show some of the pictures we have that we want to work with them if they have any existing responsibility we can address it at that time because this money is not for the work i would it's not for construction yet so this money is not for the work but this will always to determine the question obviously state has some type of participate needs to have participation in this but you know looking at us footing the bill until that is determined you know it's like we're taking the brunt of i fair share as we go along but for us to just put the entire bill to begin with in order to come to that point i mean i'd like to have their participation now and some kind of input monitor lee especially  just work work things out because at some point they are part of this they have to be part of the solution you know the issue encompasses their area along this slow way we can't see the actual line just yet but it is there there's a last word higher slope is yap state is in there you know i mean it cherrie see them do emergency proclamations all the time with our highways and this is i believe an emergency case maybe out in the middle of nowhere and not you know affecting huge populations but it's still our population and people and people's lives are at stake so if this is you know resembles some roads that if there's a way that we can at least bring in state representatives into the discussion i'd really like to hear it happen but at this point sure i'm very supportive of trying to figure out you know how to make this safe for have is is there a way to get going on this and dealing with the state later i see you know in private property thing i believe don't we do the work and then build the other members are all kind of saying is that you know based on what we find i think we will be able to come to the state with something i really don't know how much we're going to fire right how far up is the property line  is the unstable material on our side the line of their side the line is a bit of both i think once we have all the information and even say and is for the sake of discussion say a regional person would find it's a fifty fifty split i think we've got as far fifty percent share of the design funds you know if there is some type of grant made it comes they can it would say look we need a half mil fifty fifty or you guys pay for that extra two fifty in the construction site so that at the end it's it's shared equally if if it's deemed a fifty fifty split it's an eighty twenty split whatever the split might be really kind of pans of what we find and we haven't been out to know we'll tell you definitively now but i know that if we tried to initiate that discussion in absence of all that data will just be discussing and nothing's going to get moving forward anything to that thank you chair just again it's a little different when you're dealing with the state then with another private landowner i'm sure there's a process much like the county has its claims process where you know you can file some type of claim with the state but  i think mr good's you know solution makes a lot of sense you know to try and figure out what needs to be done and then hopefully we can get some type of help from the state through you know the legislature somehow like oh i just had a gran to put some money end because i was going to ask mr goodere how much it's going to cost any my review of any requests i'm going to be i just need a lot of chorus with dollar fee to the for this more appropriate for us to consider because i'm all right thank you and i do my phone calls before i reach my figure so i have a basis of our team my estimate numbers the i didn't get a exact timeline from my staff i know from previous projects you know if we're successful you're the committee and second reading etc then we have to go get a consultant process get a contract initiate the work we're probably a year out before we housen good studies to actually present to the state perhaps a little less time trying to be realistic maybe a year  and get everything in place before it's going to be addressed with the this is the government or if i get a backup we will be addressing them early on by getting a right of entry so that we can go on their property and perform the portion of the studies that need to be done on their property so getting that right of entry is one way to let the state know that there is an issue that they're going to have to deal with at some time but provide providing data as relates to the cost estimate we think we have room to go so that's when we say making a buffer one of the more elegant potential solutions is just move the road a little bit create more of a buffer from the slope so that say there's a swale and there see this rockslide here right say i was driving down and iraq comes and whacks my car who's who pays for that today owner of the rock however just in the present situation we're talking about it's a little different because that's something's been directly damaged right now it's you're talking about rock slides landing up on our property and as the property owner i think as mr holcombe has acknowledged earlier regardless of where the rockslide originated as the road owner we're responsible for taking care of the problem right now and as mr good's said later on we can try and figure out how to get some of that money back but i wouldn't directly compare our situation as it stands right now to a rock falling and hitting your car any of the comments members chair this member but i think mr costin's have a good point in regards to say an overgrown push on someone's yard encroaches into an intersection and it creates an accident because they couldn't see around the corner and things of that nature so that it's like the cars the private property owners not the road itself but in the chair from the community one i'm going to request deferment i've already requested to be sent down my intent is to post it on the very next committee meeting of this month and then send it to council for council action and in the meantime also we can use that to do additional due diligence or will will we will work with director good and see if there is ways we can initiate communication so that c b is aware of or intend to move forward and correct this issue safety issue and that we are going to assess if there are others that should participate in the finance you know the project any questions ok with that i'm going to do for actually members  members three bills for an ordinance regarding this project one is to increase upon lep spawn by one point three eight one seven five zero million dollars seven five zero million dollar requests and a third bill for an ordinance that would amend appendix a fiscal year two thousand and sixteen budget by the appropriation of great revenues to public works federal highway administration frigidly by five point five to seven million dollars project for quite a while and i'm sorry not the state with the federal aid project on this for quite a while there was some  chair you know this project was basically on track and met all the various milestones received all of the our approvals to go out to bed and went out to bed and there are some discrepancies in the documents and then we had started to move forward with the number one better i think number two protested we worked with state d o t d see how we can make it work back and forth back and forth long story short i think there's match the federal match is being preserved it's actually a federal fiscal year sixteen fifteen fifteen funds as well so those are being held for us but control but it is as a part of the process that you know the bears have the opportunity to you know exercise their rights and that's being done in this case so you're confident before the committee this afternoon director that bypass that section of a kani we've had some land rights issues there so more than likely it's going to be less than our original but i don't have the numbers on fresh air but it's not an increase about the  up in court or whatever how long do you think you have before you'd lose everything you have any idea well osieck a couple things are missed victoria one is the way this has happened in the past with   if for some reason it's law takes longer to c c a i would think we probably have another maybe ninety the one hundred eighty days to encumber or lose the project in the past we've had one hundred eighty days from from bid opening to award of contract or initiation or something like that it's kind of a new requirement from federal highways so the only time missed that we made every time the only time we've missed is when we've had big protests since the second one so how much more they leeway they give us i'm not sure yet can we have really tested that before but will ask us if they're going if number one which was our original object which is number two still have an option to come back again to protest or it's done because i'm worried if number two was to get it number one would protest session to discuss that matter but i really want to know on that one on holiday that will really end up if one gets it to have an opportunity again to prove to us chairman again my understanding as seen as a little bit is  see that compete because that road does need some major work on it it's been long overdue but i know so i got the picture you're seeing more than likely will ever get it should and this this whole controversy that's been that's been our experience and i think he now that we have a fragile transportation act for five years with money we should move forward so members i was going to recommend victory no and again members this is to recommend to console those three bills for the ordinances leads to highway reconstruction further discussion on the ocean members of a not only dish to this is the audit of the county's road research receiving improvement and maintenance practices joining us this afternoon is the county auditor mr lentz to gucci present his office's findings and for my does produce comments i believe we all have received a copy of his audit members and he referred to that good afternoon chair obama and members of the budget and finance committee thank you for this opportunity to discuss the office of the county auditor's report number fifteen that zero one intitled audit of the county's road resurfacing improvement and meet needs practices cooperation and assistance provided by the department of public works and others who assisted us throughout this audit this audit was selected because of the public's interest in the condition of the county roadways and the recent and maximize the life span and public safety while minimizing the mean and car maintenance costs and make other recommendations as we focused on five areas long range planning pavement preservation audit presents five findings and recommendations which are summarize in the executive summary and the beginning of the report the department of public works joel you agree with our findings or recommendations and in some instances have already be implementation rather than going over each of the five findings and the associated recommendations made in our report i wanted to comment on the findings a recommendation and that i believe provides the most benefit to our county we found that there is no comprehensive long range plan to meeting all existing county roads we recommended that the department develop a comprehensive long range plan which incorporates the existing mid range and annual plans and the impacts of pavement preservation program this plan should address all of the existing county roads and would help to ensure that the colony is performing at a level there were properly maintained all roads it should identify when various preservation techniques will be used to extend the useful life of you with the county needs to discontinue the longstanding practice of performing road road work based upon dollars available in the fiscal year budget that practice may lead to roads being neglected to a point where more costly road reconstruction is require everyone knows the value of primitive made that's that's why most car owners perform regular oil changes and the main as suggested by the manufacturer as noted by the department in their response or audit a conference of long range plan would take some time to develop and would be dependent upon times time and funds available to put towards a plan you also require a better understanding of the costs and capabilities of the in house payment preservation program comprehensive long range plan is a valuable tool tool which will help the county and the public determine the total cost and annual funny required to meet in all county roads a the future another significant finding is that the department lacks the historical data and meaningful for performance measures that would allow for thirty evaluation of the highways divisions pavement preservation program effectiveness of the program we recommend that department conduct a full cost analysis of the next from a few years to determine the long term feasibility of the county performing certain pieman preservation techniques in house versus using private contractors this concludes my overview of the report any of you if you have specific questions i'll be happy to answer them thank you charo thank you very much m i said really i was surprised i said ok you know august can be a good thing you know especially when we're looking at we're doing new techniques new practices within the department met with a lot a lot of folks within our department primarily course highways division in engineering division and learned a lot has a lot of questions learned a lot we learned a lot from him and we came to the final report and even get a final report there was back and forth with the drought so i do appreciate working with the auditors office in that regard and being open about it so we have started implementing and actually have implemented a number of things here are in the report lantz touched on a couple the two major items i like to touch on those as well first you know for us to move forward on some of these things it's critical that we have are we now have a fiscal analyst in house so i want to thank the council we did come here budget sessions ago to get a position that we could have for our own fiscal analysts who really looks at what our department does on a daily basis and how we can do things better from a cost standpoint or give us cost data that helps drive better management decisions and we have that person now this name is michael bush he's been on board for months on come from the private sector where he had worked for the silicon valley firm where they actually they need to know exactly down in the mill how much activity cost to build something and he's got a local experience as a real estate appraiser here and so it's taken him a few months to stana county and i'd say probably fifty percent range terms of understanding where everything is how to keep cos he's already done a number of projects for us and now he's on a paper preservation so he is tasked with finding out what our full costs are and as an example he's got into our database we have a pretty good little database called i works that takes care looks at every job we do in the highways division  resources put into equipment and power materials and immediately identify that the hourly figures cost figures were using for personnel which is based on salary data didn't include fri didn't clue the administrative overhead the highways to fund to put pace the general fund so he's working with our highways division staff intimately to better understand where every penny goes and that's going to take some time on the pavement preservation and our crews under the enthusiastic leadership of troy cali guy is learning you know how they're doing their jobs and how they do it more effectively more efficiently each neighborhood they go into is different big idea of parked cars driveways people trying to get out or emergencies they really go out of their way to make sure they accommodate so michael and troy are working very closely together to understand all these costs and so that will help us eventually get to a point where we can deliver the type of long term plan year twenty twenty eight we're going to pave your road and that's the i don't think that's the plan that we're looking for that's that's impossible right but a financial plan to say well if we want a certain pavement condition index what we call the p c i we want to shoot for a certain level and we want to shoot for that by a certain year how many dollars are going to take from here today to that future year on an annual basis what's going to take and that's the kind this is a policy decision that can then be made to say well that's too expensive for us we're going to take longer or we're going to shoot for a lower p c i i did recently saw a report by sonoma county was done october two thousand and fourteen was that he's exactly what the authors office is pointing to their situations different are all different obviously and they realized to get to a certain payment condition index by a certain year they almost had to double their  annual allotment for road fixes whatever it might be the same as us different types of fix for different types of roads police the policy makers could make it at the informed decision i think that type of report and looking at the information that's in it is something is still going to take us a few years to to get and so it's a big challenge for us but you know if we're going to in the business we need to know what we're doing what are costs are and i  historical data which we're gathering home in the business for about six months performance measures we do need to come up for us measures a better look at it as a better job at looking at you know the type of work we do and they have to see that as kind of a quick indicator of our performance so that's something we want to know develop michael again is going to help us in that regard a lot longer course with the full cost analysis which we've already started other than that the projects and we can also expand that to our highways division because they respond to call outs you know they can see a roadway condition can deteriorate quickly on you you know you plan it say oh it's eight years away  becomes eight days away and we have had i guess informal discussions as you know the auditors office found that we pride need to better formalize so we've started that process we did manage to do at least a half dozen projects as i would call joint ventures between both waste water and water and i think we're very successful because we identify them early on but now we're going to formalize that process so blame that's not the purpose of this type of audit so one i appreciate your approach to it director good and your staff i want to thank the auditor for pointing out certain things for us that i believe is very important so quickly i just want to state that if you read the auditors report members he currently says that it is again it's part of the report it is our department under the department code what the auditor has provided us through his working with the department and none of that us work with the department if we want to change that number sixty five to a different number work with the director to see what it takes  resources to make that happen so let's see if our a target goal by this committee to council is we want the number to go down to forty from sixty five we're going to train quantify that see what kind of financial resources of positions it may take because there's two things i want to work on during the budget and come out for this department one is to see if it makes sense for us a percentage or amount of the total resurfacing budget to be done in house one reason for that is my unhappiness or asserting contractors who walk away from projects unfinished so i'm looking at a various ways of what i would call the county's version of you don't fulfill your requirements to this county or find ways for five years you can to bid on county projects no excuse to cheat the people of this county even if it's our own country there's no excuse so potentially there may be some contractors that cannot be your future work you have to continue to do better practice is on our projects but saying that again members part of what i'm looking for is what i hope to get out of the department and the auditors office and get even more specific measurement numbers because i am going to work with mr good and i'm going private so i like that number thirty percent more but again it takes investment to allow the department to make that happen i understand it so with that members i'm going to to ask questions mr victory no thank you dear and thank you for that you know statements in your comments i could hardly agree if someone's not doing the job they are being paid to do then we should not allow them to do business with this county i think you do it is a business man if somebody doesn't come true time in time zero even once or twice and a phone from field to contact you don't ask them back you find somebody else so i wholeheartedly agree with you  wanted to as the auditor and on which the good o who would like to answer and preach to anyone there was very specifically these items are additional information and why i wanted to ask this question is that sixty five years that you determined would take us is that part of the number one the federal highway trust fund is in danger of becoming insolvent because all of us knew back then as you well aware but the chair there was a tr within this country about the federal transportation act and map twenty one and all the other issues that are out there now we've got to resolve that at least for the next five years which gives us some  consistency and some focus that we can now count on still so much or at least he has regular source of income already goes on as a revenue to do road race was that he part of this factor when you made that sixty five or reconstructed it did not you know it assumed that the highway funds from the federal government would still be replenished so that wasn't taken into calculation the reason why it's sixty five is because we're talking about rosa got to be reconstructed if we added the amount of roads that the department currently is doing in terms of resurfacing then that number drops down i think we estimated it at above forty five years but keep in mind the reason why we include in our report the higher number is because even though you resurface erode away at some point in time in the life cycle of the road you probably going to have to reconstruct it because online bas the amount of years necessary was also to help us and have a better understanding of the chap the big challenge i think that the department faces because with the it up through a graph in showing how all of the department has to compete with other uses within the county for how we fund cash so once again sixty five years based  pavement on these areas so that they won't dissipate so quickly and the other question i had you know so i'm glad and i understand that but the other question i had was the slurry c e o you've been a big proponent of that you know which is supposed to be giving us a longer period of time for the same cave men that exist and i got to ask you when you go finish but that's another story i want to ask you now i'll ask you later on but once you thin coat on some roads we've started doing that every district now has capability of doing it all six of our districts can do that technique now that's like changing your oil slurry is more  little longer period of time but if you don't do either one of them the engine dies right so the idea is extend that life the roadway so that the resurfacing schedule get dragged out that sixty five year number that forty five year number you know if you include slurry and this is not it me for years and a lot of people complain about this you believe the road and three months later here comes the water here comes here comes the body else begin the road  it's not so bad they dig it out but they when they replace it or when they redo it they do a terrible job is there some way that you mr and i know this part of it is just a good that you could make sure those departments when they come along and they tear up the rule that when they redo it whatever needs to be done that is done though to your standard not to their standard sir  primarily with with the water department who you know for me they basically have at least a leak a day that they're fixing a lot of times or lateral leaks or small leaks they come off the main line they had toward someone's home right water near so you at least a trench from the main line to the to the to the here's our oh here's where we went this month and then we have an arrangement they have i can't nine months to twelve months from that time to get a contract well the contractor so they then contract out one hundred lateral did have a contractor come in and do that work and so we oversee that work if one of the trenches they put in was you know they ran out of material really not very good at all or it's unsafe  inform that we get a call and they go out and they fix it so for you in the public there is going to be a time period where it is a patch situation so they can aggregate a number of these into one contract for cost efficiencies and then come out and do it and then  department and as you stated we've put a lot of finding into highways division and help support the preservation team out there and i know been you know growing in leaps and bounds into becoming a great department and putting out some very quality work on our highways so i appreciate that and director you know that i've always been a support as infrastructure chair this kind of stuff so but i think in reference comments director in picking that up and starting to utilize its you you can do you need with of the departments so not have the situation is mr victory no described do your job in another department walks in and tears it up and repave so that's all just sort of d m water yourself whoever plan ahead with future projects accordingly in order to you know best utilize the time and job being done and mean the planning department i think imagine director's office they hope or nay i'm not intimately familiar with g i s system at least it's been a while but i know it's getting more and more detail and of course any computer the input of quality data without good data you're not going to get good outputs and what i've also found that at least speaking for ours is our staff we get so in a day with projects and fulfilling them and all the other requirements that you know updating another computer system is usually the last task and if we were to rely solely on that it would be until there's a i guess everyone's inputting that data consistently so i'm little hasn't to rely on it at first until we have come a good working relationship with all departments on this so that certainly all the engineers are work on the various projects where it's in water waste water us they know where the projects are guys went out there and aside replace all the laterals there may be going to water too but one you know they work with us we found out they that's part of the resurfacing they went through the whole thing now whether i could have that kind of plan that some a plan that on g i s  may we could have shown they were going to co who but if someone didn't put it this so i want to make sure those in the face to face meeting type relationships are established enough that can lead to using g i s to be great yeah i think it's a collective effort obviously it's just one to one and have been you know meeting face to face but also looking into the data that's input into the system but i  through the course of the on the phone tome that at one point in time there was a person in the managing directors office the c h p countywide coordinator who was one of the various projects between departments and should there be a conflict for example if highways wants to repeat every roadway but the water department realizes that the water line under the roadway is very old and would probably need to be replaced at some point in the near future then those conflicts could be resolved currently the department i guess has the informal method of communication by the directors stated  recommendation was i guess this is a part that we somewhat disagree because in our audit we found it they would be beneficial to have someone at a higher level make the call when two departments don't agree at the department level to corporation between departments we don't necessarily agree but we you know we we think it's a better process than what currently exists i think somewhere along the line when we perform the audit we became aware of the meeting between the water department and apollo west department and the comment we got was that all all in this me this type of meeting wasn't done for a very long time that's not to see that at the director level they weren't discussing that but at the lord of the oval you know they were quite candid to say that they haven't had this means for quite some time better ensure that type of cooperation and regarding the going in and cutting up a route and we recognize that there will be times when you know there's a water main leak and you  you've got to get a resolve there's no you know you've got to wait just because there's an informal agreement but as much as possible we need to try and minimize that because from a public perspective especially it seems like such a waste and it is a waste so the more we can do to minimize those things i think the better off the come to you is very well thank you very much for your diligence in looking into this because it we get the calls you know we see it firsthand in fact it's happening right down the street here by kilani i don't know what that's tearing up sidewalks and shoulders right now to add on something so but you stated that there is or was a county wide c a p coordinator whose job was to do just what we were discussing was to or is there is what can you clarify once again that the squish description for the position has that responsibility in it i believe currently that person has beside has been assigned other it it is kind of delegated i think to the departments to do so that was a change that was made i guess if that is to continue than probably her responsibilities to  change our jobs a quick description probably but a long time ago i think if i remember correctly a long time ago that position was establish for co ordinating inter about stop the longstanding practice of limiting paving based on the annual county budget i've not quite sure i mean they can only do what we budget them to do i am not quite sure where you're trying to go with that  you know they try to do the best they can with the money provided sometimes you know do like to do more but their process  department does is to look at it and he tried to make what they believe is the best use of money so they will look at the roads that have the most complaints of the rules that they feel need to reduce repair and they will go ahead and enter into contracts for resurfacing to resurface the most problematic roads when we look at best practices from across the nation  there is a shift from repairing the rural worse roads to try and maintain your good roads as long as possible because otherwise because the costs of rehabilitation or major repairs a worlds is far more than the cost to properly maintain all and extend the life of the road everyone moves everyone most of the people colonies are moving towards pavement preservation as the department and you know your partner has made that move it's going to take a while but until we nor how much is going to cost home we may have to ramp up expenditures to do bolt but at this point in time the prevailing method in the past especially has been to use whatever money they can whatever they're been allocated to the budget and do the best you can with it and if you look at the plants of the department you know we talk about that's relatively a medium to short range plan because the longer range plan would look at taking the assets we have through its entire life cycle but in no way  was that comment meant to be unfair to the department i think part of the reason why we had that subsequent events part within the within the rear of the report is to emphasize to decision makers that we currently do our road maintenance on with existing funds  going to come a time with competing needs for us and all these other things because it's going to have to be a decision made as to what level of quality do we want on the roadways and can we really afford it considering all the different needs of the county i think that's an important part of this but we feel that it is also an important part to have a longish conference a plan so we can better understand what is it going t to you know keep the roads to we want them because that's going to take it's not a fast process is going to be a long term process we're going to have to do a little change of direction in the way we're thinking in order to achieve that goal but that is a policy matter and it's not to the scope of the ok so essentially once we get this plan it's going to be up to us to say how much we want to fund that plan would be that would be the department would be able to implement i think at some point they need to come to this body to get input from the body because ultimately the council controls the revenues that will go to the fun and also what revenues besides that that will be used for maintenance of our highways and i think it's not a i think both parties will probably have to at some point in should whatever happen in you had an unlimited budget to fix the road say do whatever it takes to fix all the roads how many actual lane miles could you fix in a year it's my understanding th issue with availability of people billy of material so you couldn't even if you were given an unlimited budget you couldn't do more than so much for years that right  contractors on island we have two large patching plants each quarry amrani and wind cement so they can produce so much material state highways as a lot of repaving in a given year airport runway repaving has been going and there's private paying so all told you know we get a portion of all that work if there's a lot of large contracts or very likely a third paving contractor would come on whether they set their own bashing plan or they work in chair like everyone else i want to thank you for your work and i especially the collaborative approach that you're looking at the audit as i guess working document for range plan i believe that's important and if if we might say it's like a road map i guess when you gonna come up with your budget and what have you and can always fall back the department can whether mr good is still here our are not there there is this documentation in place what that involve putting something together like this consultant it's going to a lot of it is going to depend upon the needs of the department and the staffing within the department right now i believe that the department has x amount of engineers and they all do project management and various different types of projects the the development of this plan will take quite a bit of effort the departmental already uses some consultants for example for the i work updates i think every five years they hire a consultant to travel all the roadways an hour rate the roadways per hour f to collect a lot of the data granted the day don't need to be more current on the i think the department already has on integrated some of the  but the short answer to your question is that it could be contracted out but the person that is contracted still would need the experience and the historical knowledge i think of the department and like anything else in order to achieve that the department will have to make choices in his personal stuff that is that so with this long range plan so what is can give you a quote from the american association of state highways and transportation officials this in the report on page nine and basically it's said that transportation asset management in other words a conference of long range plan is a strategic and systematic process up operating and retaining and upgrading and expanding physical access assets effectively throughout their life cycle in other words like to direct to said or one of the other techniques and then as it progresses you may have to move forward to source for resealed and overly and eventually when the life cycle moves forward you may have to do repaving and eventually rehabilitation best practice is save that by doing this stuff for maintenance in general for every dollar spent in providence preventive maintenance you can get up to six to ten dollars and defer that cost saw most of the municipalities are moving towards it's preventative maintenance rather than just going in and repaving or reconstructing roads at the end of the lifecycle all the benefit is that the public gets to ride on the road in a better quality for a longer period rather than having to wait until the road disintegrates before  what we come up with this long range plan that we don't have a process right now all that will take us to extend our roadways to sixty five years much or even forty five years at this current time but as a department i believe the number we came up with was one point six billion dollars it would require if we were to reconstruct or rehabilitate all the county roads not even be within the jurisdiction now the department but you know as as you look at the growth on an infrastructure for us or are we just looking at existing thank you for the question this is outside the scope of the audit was if i remember correctly one of the roles of the department of transportation and i think with other like the state then all of these things i'm not quite sure how that plays but in terms of what the department does maybe again you can ask the director and he may  good the there's a number of mid range plans actually there the report talks about they're more related to our federal funds are allocated so t new roadways etc and then there's a long race translation play at the state coronation with the county and looking at ok where are we going to go ten twenty years out so those are some the larger planning documents that we work with it e taking this audit as a as a tool not a punishment of he kind and i think that's really the the way the counsel most to see it because it's it helps us all get a better understanding of how the operation can be community system one of the big i guess my question is this is for the auditor in finding number one as mentioned by the chair and others there's a sixty five year time frame within which it will take us to address eleven hundred sixty les miles but the terms you use in there reconstruct or rehabilitate  and then later you said that paving would reduce it to a forty year cycle so might my question is the terms that we're using are pavement preservation which puts off paving and i guess reconstruction but is paving in included in rehabilitation or and duty thank you for the question member white the rehabilitation as we understand it rehabilitation and reconstruction involves a more involved process than we paving in terms of repeating aren't standing in the director can correct me if i'm wrong but aren't standing is that there's two rehabilitation i believe is more involved than just say stripping off the top layer and resurfacing but maybe to direct to it ok so when you say when you're referring to reconstruction rehabilitation at a process that we will have to undergo if we don't do repaving in re and paper preservation more often than we are currently i guess what i'm trying to get a handle on is what is the what's the difference between the actions that you're basing the sixty five year cycle on versus the forty year cycle you on page ten of the report we talk about that number and what that number involved is something that is called the infrastructure gap it's we may have to do that at some point in time at different animals but if we can follow best practices and do the pavement preservation techniques we'll have a longer short period of time so didn't your other come up with a level of work that needs to be completed and possibly a cost attached to what we would need to do every year to achieve the forty year cycle we could not come to any kind of conclusion because the department doesn't have that kind of information on the department  far as for the payment preservation program at one point somebody one of the managers said that there was a ten year plan over in the course of the audit the told us verify that it would take x amount of dollars per year we look to the department to find that information for us and currently it did it does not exist and that's why the finding we have is that they should develop a comprehensive plan because it provides the basis for us to move the economy forward in terms of making adjustments necessary now whether it be to raising taxes  reducing our top or reducing the level of quality of the roadways so that we can from achieve that goal in the long run in other words make little adjustments now rather than having to address all these big the cycle of addressing our roads on the average is in your view is it the forty year cycle or the sixty five i don't see us i mean to reconstruct every road  where they're they're adding looks like they're adding a little more than they've removed but in your definition is that rehabilitation and reconstruction or just rehabilitated or might be two hundred years before we get to that point so but so it's hard to look at a deal look at my schedule of how many miles per year or the approach of the auditor lays out standard practice now in the industry of looking at what payment condition index you want to shoot for on average which is really do you want a two star or three star four star roadway system all right so someone give us the direction on what roadway system we think is acceptable and then we'll lay out the cost to get there or certain amount of time and then to maintain that after we had achieved it and so that's like the example i cited with sonoma county they said ok we're going to go for a pa g condition in texas seventy five three lising like half our roads right now are below fifty which is poor ok that's the direction they receive from their legislative body and they did a report on here's what we need to do to get  there and of course in their case mad spending more money so that's a cut direction and interaction i think that mr duty mentioned that we need some direction as we move forward in this process we're still a data collection and also data structuring so as we do work we get good data but last just as the first number speaking of miles and what that equates to in years i asked the staff to come up with two thousand and fifteen numbers for calendar year two thousand and fifteen knowing that ended just last thursday for us on work days looks like between reconstruction rehabilitation resurfacing seal coat slurry seal and even thin overlay done by our in house staff we did almost forty miles so if we have eleven hundred miles that's the current number that's like a twenty five to thirty year schedule but that's all or treatments right so that's from the worst reconstruction like a coma road to a seal coat that we've done until just about every district now so that's that's we're really that's what we're looking at we did this last year which is great because in previous years you go back a number of years and we're only getting three million dollars a year right resurfacing are getting five point six to six million in the county was doing fifteen miles and only miles or whatever the number was was pretty low so we really really ramped up the numbers in reply a lot of different techniques but we still don't know what payment contents and index we'd be shooting for on average and how do we get there from here what payment index are we  when you say seven a seventy five for sonoma is that an average of all roads or is that an index that it's applied to each and every road yeah there's an index plate each and every road and then you would just aggregate of and come up with an average so i think it's a novice case they wanted an average of seventy five and by their current averages like fifty year fifty two or something i actually don't know what ours is but i might if i had to guess i'd be in the high fifty's to sixt i know when we've looked at the in house pavement and preservation activities that we've had had some challenges with the numbers and know that you've got your analyst  you able to provide us with with the cost detail on the the job that you been doing during two thousand and fifteen the various types of like the paving crew the slurry ceiling and provide us with the cost comparison between that and having it contracted yes we will have some numbers i buy budget session i've asked them to come up with some basic leading the battle regarding rude preservation and if you started to would i'll support that comment that i just shared with you so i thank you for measure the right things to make better decisions in the future with the departments of partnership so i'm looking forward to that some of the other things i wanted to let you know  s regards to the audit is that we had talked about so if you want to look at why we county co two point one six that is where you have two central coordinating committee recommend in the order of priority to the administration so again there are others that have been tasks either by charter or code to do certain responsibilities knesset during budget whether they're performing or not mr gucci or you have any other comments you wish to share before we wrap up this item for today's meeting once again i just want to thank the director for his cooperation and the committee members for the opportunity to present the thank you very much mr good as our director we thank you again for  experience and and it we've learned a few things we've already implemented a number of others and others are going to take time and so i think everyone recognizes that it will take time to implement but we're given a our best shot the us preservation is well spent cost up front in the big operation at the end so we want to avoid any fees for issues for this county as regards to roads afternoon members the minute before you is a bill for an ordinance to amend the fiscal year budget to allow for the department to move forward in a billing system and  information as far as the cost breakdown of the billing system says been an item of discussion for the last couple of years during the budget there was a request put in during the fiscal year two thousand sixteen proposed budget and that was removed for further discussion deliberation and that's why we brought this forward to you so that we can have that discussion before we get into the seventeen scheduled very quickly and we very much appreciate that the history of our billing system is that the honolulu board of water supply has been processing our billing for decades we've extended the contract with them in front of this council about a year ago or so and when the when my counterpart from honolulu board of water supply was sitting here he had expressed that it was his hope that we would migrate off of their system so we have been trying to find an alternative to continued contractual services with honolulu board of water supply since budget last year at the time of budget last year we just had a rough estimate of how much it might cost and what it might take and it seemed to be the council's wishes that we get some more information and have a clearer path forward before it was going to be funded so since that time we've done a pretty in depth analysis which included a couple main options one would be to use the oracle based honolulu system but transfer all the data in the same basic functionality  a nother platform or we could get it off the shelf new billing system so we looked into both of those there's some there's some benefits and pros and cons of each one have done some better cost estimating we've worked with a couple of different providers to get a better idea of what these things might cost how long they would take what sort of staff interaction it would take to get these up and running the risks of implementation and we are now ready to move forward with paper kermit we have a staff here who can answer all of your technical details no matter how detailed i just do want to express some concern about sharing too much about actual costs in open session because we haven't procured anything yet we are still dealing with these vendors will share whatever information the council feels they want i do just want to say that the more information we give in a public setting the more the competitors know about what we're thinking so i just would caution a little bit of that and finally i will say that county board of water supply is also a current customer of the honolulu board of water supply which was also asked to migrate off we have been coordinating with them although we are not proposing a joint contract we are proposing to do the same thing and the pricing we've received is based on both of us contracting a certain way to do it in coordination so we are moving in concert with the on a way that both of us feel is best independently for each of us and also together the co op board of water supply did approve their administration to move forward on this so quiet currently waiting for us and without said we can't see any questions you have we've got the technical staff here for any details and i will be more than happy to try to discuss this in any way you see fit thank you thank you director to you or first at this point we have not started an actual procurement but we believe that the best way to proceed is a sole source preacher meant to you and i can get into the details of why that is if you like m have not we have not negotiated a final contract with them so because we are with county and in my understanding is because you keep mentioning the board of water supply for them there  basically going through it simultaneously we've both been dealing with these vendors and they have also not started a official procurement they are also waiting to see what happens with us and with this body to make sure that we're going to do the same thing and i believe that we are both thinking that it a sole source a simultaneous sole source procurement for both of us is probably where we would like to head but this will be separate countries free or enter that's correct they are there is no intergovernmental agreements there are just two independent entities looking at doing something simultaneously that if we can manage to coordinate that there will be cost savings to getting to a new book for you to break into more detail of exactly what it separated i'd prefer to bring staff down who separate it all out and knows the details of exactly what's in each case thank you so  chair phase one includes i'm sorry this is brenda lee from the department of water supply thank you miss lee phase one includes mary transmission from our current system into the new system  new proposed system that we're looking at is a different version of the existing system so it will include a and handsome and that we do not currently have has the capacity for additional improvements i should see you q can you give me something about this so look total subcontracted services is everything above that account we are on oracle currently and we're going to go to an enhanced oracle platform correct mr chair mr subtotal contracted services line for the total project is the nine hundred seventy thousand for phase one it's a seven seven hundred eighteen thousand and then we're estimating an additional one hundred eighty one thousand dollars of internal costs to the department of water supply that's where we're getting the total nine hundred thousand dollar corporation thank you and you have to give us some understanding of what is you see for consulting you see far consists of a scheduler and basically what it does it allows you to schedule end of the day jobs about any human being there to prompt the consulting is what is it that's for the programmers to to work with you to schedule the jobs in the order that you want them to process that programmer is  for and the consultants there when you buy the package they also add on the consulting fee to allow you to gadgil and customize how you want your jobs to run sorry that consists of staff to perform testing that's necessary when the new system is up in running not necessarily parallel but just test the processes in the department of  personnel to to assist the department of water while we take the more experienced individuals in the water department guess to search keep existing employees or is this going to be cutting back on i guess the second floor is where the r s are lobby level i guess where people come in pay their bills and what have you is that still the same people can walk in and do payment service and yes there will be no one taking to the current staffing ok it's just who's sending out billions but everything else pretty much on the service level the homeowner wouldn't even technically see a difference in what they receive in the mail it's the intention to keep the billing system as transparent both to the customer and to our staff ok and  think mr taylor you mentioned that quote he has already gone off the system from off or is intending so i'm just trying to figure out a statewide others have our party and his staff are waiting to see what our decision is to try to coordinate so they haven't started yet either so we don't have any existing examples other people i think the big example is the city and county system which transferred just a few years ago which was covered in the media extensively and mostly not positively because that is already finished and it's already functional it gave us a an understanding of what it takes to do a lot of our staff including miss lee and so many other staff here was involved with that so they got a lot of experience during that effort to try to tune you department for giving us all this information question i have for you mr taylor probably is you know they want us to get off of their system are they providing assistance it looks like we're trying to pay them to do some or pay somebody did a conversion where if they want us off they would kind of help us out with a bit i'm determined to mislead because exactly what they're doing i'm not sure i do know that i have talked to my counterpart and the access to information we need has been promised to us exactly what it the data from where it is due to word house to be mislead and explain that it's a little beyond my understanding the data conversion actually will not have to involve any on a little board personnel what we do require is full access to the system and it doesn't not necessarily have to be there live system they can make a copy of their system and we can just access our data and our data only from that copy and it doesn't require their assistance at all ok well i was just hoping we could get financial assistance from to do one is to have servers within our county network system that are actual hardware based computers and hold the data and manage that process or user and the processing of that data happens at another location so that those are host systems so we actually buy what's called software as a service and so when we're buying this we're buying it and you know we're buying  mr couch got that clarified my concern is that we're not doing a real procurement on this we did it with the property tax change that we implemented and we're doing it with maps and so i'm just i'm wondering why we didn't go through a regular procurement when i know that there's some there's some ease with which you move from one oracle set up to another but at the same time this is a new system and i'm just wondering to what degree did we get a kind of solid pricing that you can only get through i guess an r could share that with me sure i'd be happy to and i'm mentioned earlier that we're looking at a sole source procurement which is our last choice for me procure our first choice is always just a little bit when we have apples and apples we low bid you know who's going to give the cheapest apples we go to cost loaded request for proposals when there's two different products apples and oranges but both could work let's just say that we had one system that was cheap upfront and high maintenance cost in the future and had a lot of staff time versus another one that was very expensive up front but i very low staff time we can't do that just based on low bid because it doesn't it doesn't really exemplify what our costs are going to be but we do with those is we have a cost loaded request for proposal saying you know twenty percent or thirty percent is cost but we open those whatever costs they give we are locked into and we use the cost and there are other features to evaluate them that's what you're normally called a request for proposal when we have apples and oranges but we really want the apples and we do are a request for proposals the contractors tend to know that's what we want which is sort of a case here they know we're already oracle a no we're switching over we're really comparing this what we're doing versus buying something off the shelf and starting from scratch so what happens is when you do that kind of procurement you have no ability to negotiate whatever the guy says the price of apples is you are stuck with  ability to negotiate so our experience has shown that when we have apples and apples we low bid and we have apples and oranges and we're open to either we do cost loaded requests for proposals but when there's something that is really so much better than the others we're best off doing a sole source procurement where we can actually negotiate and that is our concern of why we're not doing a request for proposals if we open those whatever that cost is we are stuck with and there is no ability to negotiate so that's the reason that we use all sourcing as our last effort only in cases like this tends to be compatible software systems we tend to use it for we tend to use it for quick meant where it has to talk to each other those are the reasons in my experience we've stuck with sole source and like i said it's a last ditch that we don't like to use but we feel that we've gotten very bad pricing when we've tried to do something else with with with this kind of situation but i would i would accept that but the in my view you know water water billions there are other systems you're comparing and i'm assuming that others have a cloud option as well if you know that it not be the case it is the case but they're not there and they're a different software system it wouldn't be just converting it from a from the oracle system there is now to sort of same same would be a completely different system i can i can tell you that there was a problem of transferring data from the prior system to oracle i don't know that there is a problem transferring data from the oracle system to another because it would involve  the the reason i'm concerned about not doing some sort of for caramel is that we've done it with the other two systems and one of the well and the person or the company that's doing our maps program is i believe tyler and the company in this that did our real property tax system is tyler and my understand is that they do utility billings well it would seem to me that having a county wide focus on possibly sending out the you know all billings from one one system would be nice but i guess i'm i'm a little concerned because i know oracle's a great product but they're also seen as kind of a cadillac and this is not a system where we're simply upgrading an existing program we are buying a new system  and basically the new system so how do you justify sole source seen on the basis that there are other systems that can provide the same product in the cloud and provide it to me that the only real issue would be whether the data transfers or not the staff is probably smirking because these are exactly the questions i have been asking them for the last two months how do we justify this when i know i can go buy something else and that's why so much work was done first of all to convince me that by doing it this way the staff and the customers will start with the stuff it won't see a difference at the end what they do right now today is exactly what they'll do after it's managed so there's no retraining time of the conversion basically we already paid for because we paid our share to city and county of honolulu when they already converted so by using this option rather than going to tyler or one of the other companies where there's a whole nother conversion to a different system we're really getting the same system packaged a little differently hosted on a different server so all of a sudden the staff time that it takes to get a new system up and running isn't necessary and it's much much much less so yes if this wasn't possible we could get an off the shelf system rebuild it from scratch we show our analysis shows that that is going to take much longer we don't think we have the staffing to do it and we're risk of having the same thing happen to us and having to honolulu that it gets out of hand there's problems that were unforseen and that we end up having  billings for a very long time what we can get the bugs worked out i also was very uncomfortable because of my lack of of experience with billing systems but i can tell you that other systems are really had to convert like skate systems we've ended up with the same the same basic pre commit of saying that when you're going to throw something out and start from scratch there's a picture but every time you modify that even if it's a major modification we end up back in the sole source realm for the same reasons on the unit response ability the software the people have programmed it and no finger pointing when it doesn't work so we're getting all of those things by going this route we could open it up to other vendors but again then the onus would be on us to try to coordinate between the new vendor and what's what we're getting from honolulu so that's sort of my my non technical right entires i appreciate all that and i guess the  challenge i'm having is that without having a quote on another cloud system you're not giving us the ability to make it a value determination between whether we want to spend it in staff time conversion if there's a lower cost option and obviously it would have to by you know understand the benefits of going to a you know this the same system because there's no there's no retraining but i also understand the benefits of having another system that operates i'm probably relatively similarly but maybe at a lower cost and i don't know that that exists but i i would be more comfortable if we had at you i felt the same way unfortunately until you commit with these companies they won't give you hard numbers and as i said earlier once you get a hard number through an r f p it cannot be negotiated so that's that's the difficulty we're in with these back out so there may not have been a renegotiation but there was certainly a a reconfiguration of what the needs were so was you know it was negotiated from the standpoint that we're getting the product we really want and we're getting that we're narrowing the price perspectives so i agree that you have a set price but there's always different ways of getting to that price when you've got you know say three or four different companies involved thanks it's a victory word you know brings up some very legitimate questions and i think you know maybe some homework needs to be done however i understand where you're coming from because of the debacle with the seating county upon a rule and they're one and the department of water supply if some of you remember there are people out there getting bills of seventy eight hundred dollars and all of a sudden when there recalibrated an actual scheme out there in the two and three thousand dollar range and these are homeowners talking businesses they went dry heck of a lot of problems with the system when they converted to something new we were fortunate that we were expelled from that because we kept the old system until they got it right is that counties all converted at the same time ok their bills were a larger problem than they anticipated for some or my colleagues are insistent did they go on and get procurement and all that then that's fine too but i want to make this is seem this is possible i want to make sure that our consumers are not adversely affected i know i think that the people in the department themselves have a good feeling what's happening the understand the systems and they would like to meet should then when it's all converted and we need to because the city county  i think there was a time when was good when we were alone i mean connected we didn't because it saved us money but that's when we were doing semimonthly feelings when we started we didn't want the buildings the cv dissipated real quickly and i think that's what we're waiting for here still i like to support what they're doing i have no problem because i understand the systems i don't i'm not an expert in air but i sat down and listen to them and presentations that they've made it to allow the department to continue working on what they feel is important so that this change will be as seamless and as cost efficient to this county as possible i think you should thank you for your comments this is a carol any i would just see to mr white's point taylor is a member of a cult like we are so as members of an equal we do have pricing benefits oracle chooses to be a part of our national alliance so we support those that are members within the organization so saying that i think i made clear my position us one thing that i wanted to ask you moving forward with this are you going to come back to us for some kind of authorization for red space for the building it's under the food jurisdiction of the county this county mr sharer we were expecting really to have it be transparent to the county from the sense that whatever we're doing now is going to continue to be different vendors so we still would not plan on printing or sending our own bills we would continue to contract that out just three different our people read the meters we have loaded into the system there being different processing a different platform or it's processing the bill it would still go to the same people that actually print and mail them so there wouldn't be anymore business operations here with and county staff ok that would be of a contracted out yes wording to what we currently do somewhere on the mainland we're not sure but that's something that you know periodically would come up for you know purchase an ok thank you thank you when the time over i would like to at least finish up be a fifty seven fifty seven members is as relates to the phone system and in she seemed this was an interesting way of going through this because this started with my understanding of just a police department good afternoon chair members and nothing at this point as you can see to my right jacob parker key head of right to department who is our in house telephone guys here to answer any specific questions you might have thank you so much mr kirky you have anything you would have any information about questions you may have about the contract will deal with this just questions come up we are probably about ninety five percent or so completed on the implementation of the phone system what we mains is finishing the work that has started in han i don't love and up country a country will probably be expected to be finished in early february capacity to carry the phone traffic on our network we expect us to heirs to be finished by march some time at that point we will be able to decommission  farm system in february we expect to be able to start consolidating a lot of circuits provided by the local telephone carrier so that we  have the opportunity to document for huge savings in the monthly cost for the services provided by the carrier and that should al improve some existing concerns with the quality of some cause we're still passing through the old system to the new system and there is at times some impact  subject i mentioned that there is always a stabilization phase with a new system like this and been able to eliminate any see as as a pass through component of the system that we have now council services or council staff will get reported to one of your staff members and they are to point of contact for us so we're working with them continuously on trying to address that we've provided some options to improve some configuration functional aspects and we're waiting to hear back what their preferred approach would be and we can make those adjustments when we do have thank you time it's just i share your i guess unhappiness with the system itself i still haven't it's not that i use my front a whole lot most high staff does a lot of the conversing on the phone system but just a few times it see we had no problems when we changed the key point in that was it worked  i don't know if i have so much questions but comments you know i believe you i was told by our staff from o c s that sound their rationale for us not hearing when we receive calls you know can't have the all conversation was because of the connection still it any  and we've had some mishaps as far as transferring calls you know what my previous life was with the phone company hundred years i guess but it you know when a customer complains we need to respond oh that's how it was in the good old he's but it doesn't the phone system or does that in the band with include the actual usage of computer or what i'm trying to sell when you said bad with making sure we have enough bandwidth are implementing now from shore tel leveraged to data network organizations and the force traffic moves off to traditional phone company wires to data network hiring well there will be phone company trucks coming in to specific locations in our network but from the ny to the traffic on the and county offices online i are not that large and there's not that many people to add voice traffic to that we're quite concerned that it will affect the quality of the car and the reliability of the call because we're really adding quite a bit of traffic to limited capacity so we're working with the police department a police department as you know has been upgrading their network their mark a wave network to modern technology which is is very similar and very compatible over the technology we use for a data network or for voice that work so we are now testing moving that traffic on to the police department's network and in cooperation with police departments so they have the so before we be really go into production we want to have some time to make sure that it's reliable and we can deal with any said was that determine our project before they purchase our you know did the vendor explain all of that before the actual practice is that some of the defaults that we're experiencing as far as the voice seeing as with with our exists with the service here to miss a chair we were aware of the limitations that we had in the network a passage of a nice for that has always been part of the implementation plan to to work on improving that not being able to do the whole county all at once in in order for to replace the phone system on a long weekend it would have been enormously risky enormously expensive and i don't know the results would have been anything that you would have been happy with the implementation process has taken longer than we had expected so we had hoped to be able to eliminate any c as that pass through component of the architecture were very close to doing that now so i think that you will find that after march the improvement will be  noticeable we do have some statistics however the system keep track keeps track of quality called quality on a scale from zero to five five being really good and zero being really bad on average we're running typically is it the vendor or do they have people on call to respond to some of the concerns that we me it's a little bit of both i think we re provide the first level of response so if if the council services staff picks up the phone to report a problem it comes to us we will check what we can on the system to make sure that we're aware of any outages or what have you if we can't find the solution within an acceptable amount of time we have the ability to call the system vendor or the phone company sometimes it's the trunk that the phone company experiences promise with so we is there a reason why in some cases we have the feeling that people when we're calling a non shorto phone somewhere else outside the system but the they can't hear us very well you heard that  you know it's in an inexact science communications kister is so many components to the whole infrastructure that finally reach somebody's cell phone or somebodies landline so opportunity for quality loss you know incrementally and it adds up but we do blame the fact that we still have in the past any c for good care so that's one of the items that might improve as of march short tell equipment going that's correct it's all short of her and this is what is what is process always participation so purses are the consultants that help us understand and learn the phone also it interaction with the phone companies as as a member corral mentioned you know she has a lot of experience my experience is not the same doubt they will immediately drop everything to help me out with everything so so we have somebody in that knows how to navigate those waters and day on the sand in her circle it's need to be designed to support the system they've also helped us with the rollout and the discovery do in in many offices you know how many phones do you have how many lines come into one where we've rolled out the new phone system and it's been very valuable they're also responsible for reconciling the billing with the phone company it's another area where there are some challenges how quickly  adjusted so we rely on their insider knowledge and in the phone world to get to the outcome that we've set up so we have in our the consulting for the the key a police station to get us not the equipment but just get an understanding of how to proceed with the brick ehrman of the equipment we're talking about process right yeah so we selected them through a competitive process to help us developed our feet help us about the way to proposals and then to help us with the implementation the management of the implementation as far as the interaction with station and we collectively felt that was an opportunity to bring new technology because the n s c system we have at time that the key a police station was was being built had already outlived its expected life and maintenance agreements so but we made it clear in our feet that we were dealing with a face one as far as funding that was available right then and there but that we were looking to select a system that would be fax and we give them what is assigned to our machine suffer any it interesting that i am getting these responses from lines that when you try to testimony or aren't comments regarding something on the island unable to communicate with our office on maui through the fax the second one i would see has been interesting and i guess is people have been accustomed to our two seven zero  so i would say those are two things that from a public perspective i hope we can have some corrective adjustments made because i don't know i don't think it's hard but you know you're you're you're there you're a professional so if you tell me that something the vendors are going to have to take care of you know that's fine with me because i don't know are we still under warranty with them i miss a chair they do use of prefixes is not something that is determined by the phone system itself but that is determined by mail ability of numbers from the carriers and  i do think you're around when we moved into the system that we're trying to move off off in those days all the previous fixes were two four three and you may remember that and eventually people got used to having a two seven zero and so we have the same kind of adjustment period when when the any c system was brought into the county it was limited to central maori primarily and  or two seven zero here or two for eight and in hama you may very well end up in a situation where the last four digits are the same you know that maybe three or four people that have one two three four s their four digit extension everything that into one system we run into problems because the system is not going in order to meant to call mr couch or or myself if you dial one two three four so we are dealing and that's why it's taken a bit a little bit longer country and those that are in the later phase of the imitation process we are having to reconcile these conflicts in extension numbers and part of that is that we have to bring in additional blocks of numbers available to many of the two seven zero numbers as speak could but you know what deregulation people can use their land line number on their cell phone side and vice versa so it's not this need to be structured anymore as  i mean i don't even think they know i'm calling back but yes mr couch thank you mr chair at you know that's a that's i would think a simple function a simple parameter to change at least on the systems that i'm aware of you can send a caller id that whatever one you want to or i thought we had that capability and are going to implement that some of that capability is restricted by the fact that we're still passing through t any system so once we take that out of architecture caller i d s will be much more universally available ok except in situations where people opt not to display the high end a central departmental or divisional number you know for for obvious reasons or to them obvious he's actually we're going to get to that as soon as we get off for the next self esteem so it sort of any see it's interfering with the ability to display six three at some time or we'll have you being i believe we have we will have a mixture because for a for billing and planning and management purposes we look to have the largest contiguous blocks of numbers so that we didn't have you know five or ten times the number of circuit bills coming in just because we had a few numbers here in a few numbers just knew you'd know whether or not to order new business cards or not with