and we could you help me understand how this program works because i'm not sure that i do understand it entirely if you are eligible for a v a loan guarantee my understanding is you go to the v a and ask for a certificate of eligibility and we have an example of a certificate of eligibility issued to your client and then as i understand it you take the once the loan is made that is at the bank or is it the widow in this case goes back to the v a and says please issue a guarantee certificate is that the way it works but it seems to me that the government may be wrong in suggesting that the widow in this case is not entitled to the statutory protection but on the other hand i wonder what the basis for the same subject why isn't it right to say evidence of eligibility for a guarantee is not the same as eligibility of evidence of a guarantee which is to say the guarantee is a is something issued at a later stage than the issuance of eligibility and as i understand from  i guarantee that post dates the process for eligibility eligible you're on the hook for a bad law i would have thought that the statute was designed to protect the bank under those circumstances even before the long guarantee had been issue marital status and says the bank is protected unless it was aware of the change in marital status is not protected because she wasn't eligible under those circumstances doesn't the statute protect the bank from her default to the extent of the probably would be helpful the guaranteed issue in th part and parcel of the closing and it's part of a much more complicated process as any reality closing would be where a lot of documents are exchanged simultaneously on all sides and then the parties walk away after the closing with a full and clear understanding of what their financial obligations and what is or is not protected in particular and how do we know that that's the process and that we don't have a situation where the loan is issue percent so typically i say that would be a loan amount in the of eligibility yes because it's a it's a life loan was not aware of any change in marital status this seems to contemplate action by the bank based on the certificate without actually having the guarantee itself my question why would this language exist in the certificate of eligibility if the bank weren't taking some action like making a loan relying on what the marital status suppose without goes to the bank with the certificate of eligibility the bank makes a lot and then all of a sudden the bank said look we shouldn't have made the loan because you're not eligible we want you to pay it back to be and does approve you know presumably they they just don't do this but suppose that some really small bank and they're not familiar with this process and they just do a lot to  but hypothetical i would assume that it would depend on how material was the lenders failure to follow this process so this might be somewhat informative thirty  the lender and the da about whether they followed the proper procedures and whatever the result of the widow is because the lender purported to issue a loan current guaranteed by the i think a lot of time but i don't know the answer the question is that she could rely on it against the bank as long as there was no fraud or forgery or misrepresentation specific about from their spouse is going to be entitled to the loan at the end of the process but there still has to be that back and forth with the guarantee actually issued a closing it may be your honor that if the start of the in the regulations that would contradict the government's account that this is all done at closing