the committee will come to order before beginning my opening statement i'd like to make several brief announcements as most of you know our colleague robert will resign from congress at the end of this year to become president of the center for middle east peace and economic cooperation affective today he is resigning as chairman of the subcommittee on europe and he will be succeeded in that position  carnahan will serve as the new chairman of the international organization human rights and oversight and oversight subcommittee following in the footsteps believe it or not of his grandfather who chaire the same subcommittee eighty fifth congress a contemporary of bill's we thank bob for his service in the congress on this committee very good friend of many of us and wish all three of our colleagues the best of luck in their new positions allies and i want to thank the prime minister for his country's leadership of the provincial reconstruction dream team in bogland province in afghanistan and for their brave men and women of hungary or serving their welcome  finally given the time constraints on the witnesses they must leave at four fifteen wherever we are and to ensure that as many members as possible have a chance to ask questions we will limit opening statements to myself  spoke eloquently to the nation about his plan of action in afghanistan we are pleased to welcome three senior officials to testify on the president's secretary of state hillary rodham clinton secretary of defense robert gates and chairman of the joint chiefs of staff admiral michael mullen we greatly appreciate your participation as the president stated it is clear that the united states has a vital national security interests and to prevent its capacity to threaten america and our allies in the future many news reports there was a healthy debate in the administration about whether this critical objective could be met by pursuing a targeted counterterrorism strategy as opposed to a more extensive and robust counterinsurgency strategy could be united could the united states succeed in afghanistan by employing relatively small numbers special operations forces and high tech weapons systems to disrupt and defeat and reverse the taliban's momentum while also accelerating the training of afghan security forces  interests are at stake in afghanistan as the president said in his speech last night and i quote this is no idle danger no hypothetical threat this danger will only grow if the region slides backwards and qaeda can operate with impunity and put our brave men and women in uniform understand this reality and stand ready for duty they embrace the opportunity to defend our nation and protect our homeland by defeating the enemy in a convincing manner so that they cannot ever again rise against us it is our obligation to provide them and all of our personnel on the ground with the support and the resources necessary to win the war in afghanistan and prevail against al qaeda the taliban and other militants i am however concerned that before the strategy has been implemented the president has placed a deadline on our commitment and a timeline for the withdrawal of our troops telegraph to the enemy how does it impact the morale of our troops and the mindset of our afghan counterparts and other allies in this effort this is the fight that we cannot afford to lose general mcchrystal wrote on aug thirtieth that the next twelve months were critical yet one quarter of that is already gone as president john f kennedy said and i quote there are risks and costs to action but they are far less than the long range risks of comfortable inaction and now that the president has articulated the administration's approach toward afghanistan we must fully commit to doing everything possible to succeed there i ask that our distinguished witnesses address the following what are the key differences between the strategy that the president articulated yesterday and those that he or to kill a did last march what action is the administration taking to ensure that those who have pledged to provide multilateral and bilateral assistance to afghanistan actually fulfill their commitments and secretary clinton what is our anti corruption strategy in afghanistan what is our strategy for promoting a more capable accountable and effective government in afghanistan the afghan people secretary gates what is our strategy for expanding the numbers and building the capacity of the afghan national security forces what is our strategy for supporting afghanistan in disrupting and dismantling narco traffickers and breaking their narcotics insurgency next i would like to refer to an editorial appearing on monday in the wall street journal europe section where their author refers to a discussion he had with the chief prosecutor for the international criminal court the  prosecutor said that he already has jurisdiction in afghanistan because the afghan government ratified in two thousand and three and that he is already conducting a preliminary concerning the and what protections are being provided to our personnel in afghanistan to ensure that they are not subject to prosecution and in closing mr chairman because the administration is concerned years as an intelligence professional admiral michael mullen is a seventeenth chairman of the joint chiefs of staff he serves as the principal military advisor to the president the secretary of defense the national security council members of the committee i'm grateful for this opportunity to testify today and i also want to acknowledge the leader of one of our very strong allies the prime minister of hungary the chairman recognize  show our appreciation yesterday president obama presented the administration's strategy for afghanistan and pakistan today we will be answering your questions and providing additional details but let me future we are fighting in afghanistan and pakistan have attacked us and our allies or if we allow them access to the very same safe havens they used before two thousand and one they will have a greater capacity to regroup and attack again they could drag an entire region into chaos our civilian and military leaders in afghanistan have reported that the situation is serious and worsening and we agree in the aftermath of september eleventh i grieved with sons daughters husbands and wives those whose loved ones were murdered it was an attack on our country it was at the time an attack on my constituents and i witnessed the tragic consequences in the lives of thousands of innocent families the damage done to our economy and our sense of security so i feel a personal responsibility to help protect our nation from such violence the case for action against al qaida and its allies has always been clear but the united states course of action over the last eight years has not the fog of another war obscured our focus and while our attention was focused elsewhere the taliban gained momentum in afghanistan and the extremist threat grew in pakistan a country with one hundred seventy five million people a nuclear arsenal and more than its share of challenges it was against this backdrop that the president called for a careful thorough review of our strategy i was very proud to be a part of that process and our objectives are clear we will work with the afghan and pakistani governments to eliminate safe havens for those plotting attacks against us our allies and our interests we will help to stabilize a region that  is fundamental to our national security and we will develop a long term sustainable relationship with both afghanistan and pakistan so that we do not repeat the mistakes of the past the duration of our military presence may be limited but our civilian commitment must continue even as our troops will begin to come home now accomplishing this mission and ensuring the safety of the american people will not be easy it will mean sending more civilians more troops and more assistance to afghanistan and significantly expanding our civilian efforts in pakistan and the men and women carrying out this mission both civilian and military alike are not just statistics on a power point slide they are our friends and neighbors our sons and daughters our brothers and sisters and we will be asking them in the american people who support them to make extraordinary sacrifices once again i want to assure this committee we will do everything we can to make sure their sacrifices make our nation safer the situation in afghanistan and pakistan is serious but it is not in my view as negative as frequently portrayed in public the beginning of president karzai his second term has opened a new window of opportunity we do every concerns about the influence of corrupt officials in the afghan government and we will continue to pursue them but in his inauguration speech last month which i attended i witnessed president karzai call for a new compact a new compact with his country and a new compact with the international community he pledged to can continue to work with us and he pledged to combat corruption improve governance and deliver for the people of his country is words were long in coming but they were welcome they now must be matched with action and we intend to hold the afghan government accountable we will work with  afghan partners to strengthen institutions at every level of society the president has outlined a time frame for transition to afghan responsibility as he said in his speech last evening the additional american and international troops will allow us to accelerate handing over responsibility to afghan forces and allow us to begin the transfer of our forces out of afghanistan in july of two thousand and eleven just as we have done in iraq we will execute this transition responsibly taking into account conditions on the ground a time frame for transition will provide a sense of urgency in working with the afghan government but it should be clear to everyone that the united states our allies and our partners will have an enduring commitment a civilian commitment to afghanistan and pakistan our resolve in this fight is reflected in the substantial new increase in troops but also in the significance of ilion surge that will also accompany it the civilian effort is bearing fruit civilian experts and advisors are helping to craft policy inside government ministries providing development assistance in the field and when our marines went into the provinces last july we had civilians on the ground with them to coordinate assistance the very next day as our operations progress arse of mil coordination will grow even stronger we are on track to triple the number of civilian positions to nine hundred seventy four by early in january on average each of these civilians leverage is ten partners ranging from locally employed staff to experts with u funded n g o s it's a cliche to say that we have our best people in these jobs but it also happens to be true when i was in kabul a few weeks ago i met with an american colonel who told me that while he had thousands of outstanding soldiers under his command none of them had the forty years of agricultural experience of the u s d a civilian serving alongside his battalion or the rule of law and governance expertise of the civilian experts from the state department the colonel said to me i'm happy to supply whatever support these valuable civilians need and we need more of them that is part of our strategy our combined civilian military strategy we will be delivering high impact economic assistance and bolstering the agricultural sector we will be helping to support an afghan led effort to open the door to those taliban who renounce al qaeda abandon violence and want to reintegrate into society we know that regional diplomacy is essential and it will complement our approach i will be going to brussels tomorrow to work with our allies to obtain additional commitments of troops and civilian aid we also know that a strong stable democratic pakistan is a necessity as a key partner in this effort people in pakistan are increasingly coming to the view that we do share a common enemy i heard that repeatedly during my recent  visit there so we will significantly expand support to help develop the potential of the people of pakistan and we will do more to demonstrate to the pakistani people that they must continue their efforts to weed out and defeat the pakistani taliban as we are moving forward with our international efforts we have a great deal of commitment to troops trainers and resources that will be  reported in the days and weeks ahead embassador holbrooke our special representative is already there consulting with our allies and we are especially reaching out to muslims everywhere to make clear that  who pervert a great religion do not represent it and everyone has a stake in ensuring that they do not to dominate the message in the narrative of what islam stands for so let me conclude where i began we face a range of difficult choices but the president's plan represents the best way we know to protect our nation today and tomorrow the task is as complex as any national security challenge in our lifetime we will not succeed if people view this effort as the responsibility of a single party or a single agency within our government or a single country we owe it to the troops and civilians who will face these dangers to come together as americans along with our allies and international partners to accomplish this mission i look forward to working with you to ensure that we do thank you mr chairman thank you madam secretar chairman ranking member members of the committee thank you for inviting us to testify but i would like to provide an overview of the strategic thinking and context behind the president's decision in particular the nexus among  the taliban pakistan and afghanistan and our objectives and how the president's strategy aims to accomplish that as the president first stated last march and reemphasize last night the goal of the united states in afghanistan and pakistan is to disrupt dismantle and defeat al qaida and its extremist allies and to prevent its return to both countries international military effort to stabilize afghanistan as necessary to achieve this overarching goal defeating al qaida and enhancing afghan security are mutually reinforcing missions they cannot be untethered from one another as much as we might wish that to be the case under great pressure now and dependent on the taliban and other extremist groups the success of the taliban would vastly strengthen our message to the muslim world that violent extremists are on the winning side of history qaida is that time and will are on their side that with a western defeat they could regain their strength and achieve a major strategic victory as long as their senior leadership lives and can continue to inspir attract followers and funding rolling back the taliban is now necessary even if not sufficient to the ultimate defeat of al qaeda at the same time one cannot separate the security situation in afghanistan from stability of pakistan a nuclear armed nation of one hundred seventy five million people now also explicitly targeted by islamic extremists giving extremists breathing room in pakistan led to the resurgence of the taliban and more coordinated sophisticated attacks in afghanistan providing at sanctuary for extremists in southern and eastern afghanistan would put more pressure on a pakistani government already under attack from groups operating in the border region indeed the pakistan taliban in just the last year or so has become a real threat to pakistan's own domestic peace and stability carrying out without help escalating bombing attacks throughout the country failure in afghanistan would meet a taliban takeover of much if not most of the country and likely a renewed civil war taliban rule the area put in short areas could in short order become once again a sanctuary for al  well as a staging area for resurgent militant groups on the offensive in pakistan success in south and central asia by islamic extremists as was the case twenty years ago would beget success on other fronts it would strengthen the al qaeda narrative providing renewed opportunities for recruitment fundraising and more sophisticated operation it is true that al qaeda and its followers can plot and execute attacks from a variety of locations from munich to london to denver what makes the border area between afghanistan and pakistan uniquely different from any other location including somalia yemen and other possible redoubt is that this part of the world represents the epicenter of extremists jihadism the historic place where even foreign muslims defeated one superpower and in their view caused its collapse of for them to be seen to defeat the sole remaining super power in the same place would have severe consequences for the united states and for the world some may say this is similar to the domino theory that underpinned and ultimately muddied the thinking behind the us military escalation in vietnam the difference however is that we have very real and very recent history that shows just what can happen in this part of the world when extremists have breathing space safe havens and governments complicit with and supportive of them in their mission less than five years after the last soviet tanks across the term as bridge out of afghanistan islamic militants last launched their first attack in one thousand nine hundred three on the world trade center in new york we cannot afford to make a similar mistake again the president's new strategic concept aims to reverse the taliban's momentum and reduce its strength while providing the time and space necessary for the afghans to develop enough security and governance capacity to stabilize their own country the essence of our civil military plan is to clear hold build and transfer beginning to transfer security responsibility to the afghans in the summer of two thousand and eleven is critical and in my view achievable this transfer will occur district by district province by province depending on conditions on the ground the process this will be similar to what we did in iraq where international security forces provided overwatch first at the top tactical level and then at the strategic level making this transition possible requires accelerating the development of a significantly larger and more capable afghan army and police are expensive partnering with forces especially in combat even after we transfer security responsibility for the afghans and draw down our combat forces the united states must continue to support their development as an important partner for the long haul we must not repeat the mistakes of  toxic ideology without improving and stabilizing the security situation in afghanistan the president's decision offers the best possibility to decisively change the momentum in afghanistan and fundamentally alter the strategic equation in pakistan and central asia all necessary to protect the united states our allies and our vital interests so i ask for your full support of this decision to provide both ambassador eikenberry and general mcchrystal the resources they need to be successful as always the heaviest burden will fall on the men and women who have volunteered and often serve their country in uniform i know they will be uppermost in our minds and as we take on this arduous let me state right up front that i support fully and without hesitation the president's the opportunity to contribute to what i believe was a healthy and productive discussion i've seen my share of internal debates about various national security issues especially over the course of the last two years and i can honestly say that i do not recall an issue so thoroughly or so thoughtfully considered as this one every military leader in the chain of command as well as those of the joint chiefs was given voice throughout this process and every one of us used it we now have before us a strategy more properly matched to the situation on the ground in afghanistan and resources matched more properly to that strategy particularly with regard to reversing the insurgency's momentum in two thousand and ten and given the stakes in afghanistan for our own national security as well as that of our partners around the world i believe the time we took was well worth it secretary clinton secretary gates have already walked you through the larger policy issues and questions i will not repeat them from a purely military perspective i believe our new approach does three critical thing first by providing more discreet objectives and offers better guidance to commanders on the ground about how to employ their forces they will still work to disrupt dismantle and defeat al qaeda and prevent afghanistan from big becoming a safe haven they will still strive to protect the afghan people who remain the center of gravity they will still pursue major elements of the counterinsurgency campaign desired and designed by general mcchrystal which as we all know involves at least some measure of active counterterrorism operations but now they will tailor this campaign of those operations by focusing on key population areas by increasing pressure on al qaeda leadership by more effectively working to degrade the taliban's influence and by streamlining and accelerating the growth of competent afghan national security at its core our strategy is about providing breathing space for the afghans to secure their own people to stabilize their own country it's about partnering and mentoring just as much if not more then it is about fighting where once we believe that finishing the job meant to a large degree doing it ourselves we now know it cannot truly or permanently be done by anyone other than the afghans themselves fully a third of the u s troops in theater are partnering with afghan forces and i expect that number to rise significantly over the course of the next year secondly but not in significantly this new strategy gives commanders on the ground the resources and the support they need to reverse the momentum of the taliban insurgency and to accomplish these more limited objectives i have said it before and i believe it still today this region is the epicenter of global islamic extremism it's the place from which we were attacked on nine eleven and should we be hit again it's a place from which i'm convinced the planning training and funding will emanate al qaeda may in fact be the architect of such an attack but the taliban will be the bricklayers though hardly a uniform body taliban groups have grown bolder and more sophisticated we saw that just a few months ago in the korengal valley where taliban forces attacked coalition outposts using what i would call almost conventional small unit tactics their fighters are better organized and better equipped than they were just one year ago in fact coalition forces experience record high violence this past summer with insurgent attacks more than sixty percent above two thousand and eight levels and through brutal intimidation the taliban has established shadow governments across the country coercing the reluctant support of many locals in challenging the authority of elected leaders and state institutions indeed we believe the insurgency has achieved a dominant influence in eleven of the afghan of afghanistan's thirty four provinces who say there is no serious threat of afghanistan falling once again into taliban hands ignores the audacity of even the insurgencies most public state and to argue that should they have that power and to argue that should they have that power the taliban would not at least tolerate the presence of al qaeda again on afghan soil is to ignore both the recent past and the evidence we see every day of collusion between these factions on both sides of the afghanistan pakistan border the cost of failure is then gray that is why the president's decision for an extended surge to afghanistan of thirty thousand additional forces is so important it gets the most us force into the fight as quickly as possible giving general mcchrystal everything he needs in two thousand and ten to gain the initiative it validates our hearings to a counterinsurgency approach and it offers our troops in afghanistan the best possible chance to set the security conditions for the afghan people to see our commitment to their future for the karzai government to know are stronger zire to see his promise reforms for the afghan taliban to understand they will not they cannot take back afghanistan and for those beyond afghanistan who support the taliban or would see the return of al qaeda to realize the futility of their pursuit i should add that these reinforcements come come on top of the twenty one thousand troops the president ordered shortly after taking office troops which have already made a huge difference in the southern helmand valley but as i've testified before mr chairman no amount of troops in no amount of time will ever be in to completely achieve success in such a fight they simply must be accompanied by good governance and healthy public administration this not troop numbers is the area of my greatest concern like everyone else i look forward to working with the karzai government but we must have the  support of the inner agency and international communities as well and that brings me to my final point the president's new strategy still recognizes the criticality of a broad based approach to regional problem he does not view afghanistan  isolation any more than he views the ties between al qaeda and the taliban as superficial he has called for stronger and more productive cooperation with neighboring pakistan which is likewise under threat from radical elements and whose support remains vital to our ability to eliminate safe haven he has pledged and we in the military welcome renewed emphasis on securing more civilian expertise to the effort more contributions by other nato nations and a realistic plan t transition responsibilities to the afghan is is a more balanced more flexible and more achievable strategy than we've had in the past one based on pragmatism and real possibility in speaking for the two point two million men and women who must execute and who with their families have borne the brunt of the stress and the strain of eight years of constant combat i support his decision and i appreciate his leadership thank you m we will the gavel go down after five minutes members can make comments we can ask questions as a matter of common courtesy if we spec'd the question you might give witness something more than seven and a half seconds of that five minutes to answer i myself five minutes i'd like to ask a couple of short questions and then a little more time on the afghanistan pakistan relationship first and you've sort of made evident by your testimony but to secretary gates and admiral mullen do you believe a civilian surge is an essential part of the president's strategy yes or absolutely secretary clinton are you in a position at this time to know the resources you will need to accomplish this mr chairman we do not know specifically but  will be submitting budget requests in order to achieve the numbers that are going to be needed thank you turning now to afghanistan and pakistan that connection the ministration is describe the current situation in afghanistan as detrimental to the stability of pakistan its public are reported that elements of pakistan's intelligence service continue to have ties with a number of the insurgent groups that seek to destabilize afghanistan don't many in pakistan see these groups as a means to maintain until instead afghanistan what incentive does pakistan have to cut these ties and join us in going for how many of you care to respond mr chairman i would say that first of all there is one of the significant political developments in pakistan over the last seven or eight months has been a strong shift in public opinion in support of the actions that the pakistani army is taking in first in swat and then now in south wa and the taleban in afghanistan and they are mutually reinforcing and have both in their narrative and in their operations what we have seen is the pakistani army going after the taliban and other extrem some may be going into afghanistan so there clearly is a value to what the pakistanis are doing the pakistanis relationship with these groups back frankly to when i was dealing with them more than twenty years ago when we were taking on the soviet union in pakistan these relationships between the pakistanis and these groups were established and as a vehicle for taking on the soviets they have maintained some of those contacts and those relationships frankly as a hedge because of their uncertainty whether the united states would be a reliable partner or an ally for them going forward and whether we would remain in afghanistan until we were assured of taking care of role to the security and stability of afghanistan would you agree that we have seen an increase in the level of support provided to the taliban and insurgent groups including lethal aid first of all there is no question with respect to your second question one of the concerns that i have we talk about the narcotics trade being the source of a great deal of income for the palace and frankly also for corruption in afghanistan and one of my concerns is that another source of  corruption and support for the taliban i fear is the enormous amount of international money coming into afghanistan through our own efforts and those of our partners in afghanistan the forty two other nations that are contributing troops the hundreds of organizations and so on there is a huge amount of money flowing into afghanistan at this point and one of the things that we have to think about is the way in which we approach  the information available to us from our commanders it is it is still a relatively small and not significant making a relatively small and not significant contribution to the taliban effort i think that the iranians are trying to straddle very narrow divide they want to support the afghan government they want to have a friendly relationship with the afghan government but there's no question they would like to inflict pain on us another clunker and trying to think through i think the best come up with is that we have a that's on fire but we have an old war under new ownership or is it the same war with a new management strategy  i think we have we have inherited the same war but it is a dynamic war and and frankly the situation is getting worse the fire is getting  pakistan to destabilize the government of pakistan with nuclear weapons and a much larger population we have seen the taliban as admiral mullen said earlier  becoming more and more bold and more aggressive and and it is clear that i think to the president and to the rest of us that we need to do something to change the dynamic to change the momentum and what what i think the president has done is narrowed the mission and one of the one of the concerns we had coming out of march and one of the concerns that i had was that those decisions were interpreted by many as saying well we're going into nation building and we're going to try and reestablish or establish a strong central government in kabul i think what we have done in this process and one of the things that has taken us some time figuring out how to narrow the mission so that it is focused on the threat to the united states how do we keep out and other than that terrorist nexus on that border becoming becoming an even greater danger to the united states how do we disrupt them how do we dismantle them how do we defeat them and the conclusion is we must stabilize the security situation in afghanistan we don't need to build a twenty first century country in afghanistan to accomplish that objective and so the purpose i think of what the president has announced a narrower mission focuses on our on our security as well the future of both afghanistan and pakistan and i think congressman the process that we have gone through has been aimed at testing every assumption asking all the hard questions and i think it's fair to say that if the president could have concluded that this was an old war that could be wound down and walked away from dynamite factory is there and unfortunately it's been stocked with even more dynamite in the last couple of years and therefore we think we have to address that time the gentleman has expired the ranking member of the be covered by the military and today at twelve fifty nine p m admiral mullen said and part that by roughly july the my mind the president is indicated he wants to start removing troops in july of two thousand and eleven you're telling us that they're not going to be there until july of two thousand and ten one year before they start removing the troops now night i was watching my good friend represent a poll on the floor and he raised an issue that's not been talked about in the media very much you know back in world war two if the japanese had killed and mutilated four americans hung them from a bridge and then we captured one of the people that did that one of the ringleaders and they got a split lip and a smack in the stomach i don't think they would have been i think if the germans in world war two had killed and mutilated american troops and hung them from a bridge and somebody blasted them in the mouth when they captured them they would have been court martialed and yet right now one of the ringleaders of al  i think it's improper that these men are being court martialed after capturing the sky an operation amber and him having a split lip and getting in and was hit in the stomach because that's what we were told happen and security is job one and i think an artificial timeline in afghanistan is improper as well it sends around signal in my opinion to the taliban and al qaida you have twenty three  that if we had done the right thing before we got into afghanistan and pakistan where osama bin laden was an al qaida we would not be in the situation we're in today we for a long time to come up with this plan and then secondly criticize him for having a date to come out president bush said that the mission was accomplished at the three months and we're still in iraq at least president obama knows what he has a plan and it wasn't three months after we go into iraq that we get out on an aircraft a mission accomplished and we're still there so i don't think there's any comparison and secondly we talk about the cost a president that reduced taxes at a time when we're increasing the war and now we want to why we're in this dilemma and all this criticism i don't like the increase in troops i don't think we go win a war in afghanistan i think that we have to hopefully transition the afghans to be able to train as it's been indicated and we had three choices one state of course and go nowhere to withdraw and be criticized three to increase troops i mean you had to make one of the and so we've made this one but we have to quickly zisha into having the afghans take care of themselves and i hope that that i would hope that we would also focus on other areas where al qaida is coming in like in somalia there and do not put in the assets we're going to have the same problem with and and prevent a lot of money being spent and stabilizing all of these so i hope that we would give that some consideration what about do we have enough time and manpower to train the afghans to prevent so critical with respect to enough time the entire military chain of command believes including the joint chiefs that we will know where we are by summer of eleven whether we can succeed here or not and that we know we've got to get these forces in we have to secure turn the security situation around it is really in that umbrella under that umbrella that world will be able to develop the afghan security forces the army and the police we've got goal set to do that there's some challenges associated with that there's some significant risk associated with that but we really think this is the right answer and that in fact is the way that we turned them turned their own country over to themselves in many ways not unlike iraq we don't underestimate the challenge but that really is the path and we think there is enough time between now and then to really step out in that direction and know whether whether we're going to make it or not just last question is there any way we can impress pakistan pocket now for the longest time as i can remember we've had a dysfunctional relationship with pakistan in which many of the presumptions that the pakistani i s i or intelligence services have not actually been in the interest of pakistan originally training and recruiting the taliban now we face a situation where the taleban not only is a threat to afghanistan but is also a threat to pakistan and pakistan as one hundred nucular weapons that becomes quite problematic wants to get its hands on these weapons i guess at the end of the day the question is what are we prepared to do to bring pressure to bear on that government in pakistan congressman that's obviously a critical question here's how we see it we think that in the last year the pakistani have really stepped up their military action against pakistan taleban in both swat and south waziristan is an abrupt about face from their prior policy and it's been a unifying  policy supported by people of pakistan so they have taken an important first step but they need to take more steps in their own best interests and that's the case we've been making  them that there has to be a recognition of the connection between those elements of the taleban who have attacked their military headquarters their intelligence headquarters  types of rules of engagement being dictated to our troops and you have this kind of action at a time when we're talking about trying to stop the insurgency in afghanistan i do not think it's helpful and i would like to hear any commentary on your part about what could be done bringing bringing terrorists to trial in both of you exhibit the kind of character that i think the american people justly deserve i also very quickly would just simply say that i have the opportunity to develop wonderful friendships not only with my in his usual eloquent and sincere fashion question he seemed to be making the point that the president's creation of a timetable for transition and the consideration of conditions on the ground are mutually points of reference and would seem to me in the manner in which the president has constructed his plan that in fact that is not respectfully to senator mccain the case and that the way the plan is constructed that both the creation of a timetable for transition and the consideration of conditions on the ground in fact will happen together and i was wondering if you could explain that will not be any control in july of two thousand and eleven the key word here is begin this will be a process and it will look a lot like iraq where some districts and provinces will be able to be turned over fairly quickly with us and the tactical and strategic overwatch sort of the cavalry over the hill if you will for a time and that that will spread in the country and so you will have situations where security control has been responsibility has been  taken over by the afghans and one set of districts or one province well there is still heavy combat going on in other provinces that are more and more contested with the taliban the key here is and one of the things that was central  deliberations how do you demonstrate resolve and at the same time convey a sense of urgency to the afghans that they must step up to the plate and begin to take responsibility for their own security and to protect their own country against against these extremists and i think that you know the interesting thing for me appearing before the congress now on my second surge is that is that the bush administration accepted  deadlines for the withdrawal of u s forces in iraq the president is suggesting is proposing a timeline for the beginning of a transition of responsibility for security in afghanistan we will this formally in december of two thousand and ten and decide then whether our strategy is working and whether we think we're in a position whether we need to make adjustments but the president's clear intent and his decision is that we will begin that process but the key is to realize that i guess another point i'd make is that in iraq as soon as the surge was clearly going to be successful the iraqis wanted us out as quickly as possible that's not entirely clear in afghanistan the afghans live in a very tough neighborhood they have been at war for thirty years it would be understandable if they would enjoy having the united states army and marine corps there for an extended period of time to provide protection we're not prepared to do that and so what the president has tried to do is set in place something that demonstrates resolve on the one hand but on the other puts the afghans on notice that they need to step up their recruitment of their soldiers and their police they need to get them trained they need to get them experienced in combat partnering with us and then they need to begin to take responsibility and we will do this in a gradual and conditions based way thank you if you could share with us the administration's expectation as to the participation  of the president's speech last night yes we are encouraged by the response of a lot of our nato allies we have forty three countries that are troop contributing countries working with the secretary general of nato i'll be going to nato tomorrow to be there on friday in brussels we anticipate a significant commitment of additional forces  by our nato allies staff partners as well as additional money because of course we want to establish a trust fund for both the afghan national army and the police so that the funding needs  it is appropriate for a country to protect itself from what it knows would be a devastating attack but that standard should be so high and obviously we didn't see that standard met in the last eight years but let me just add that is not the situation in afghanistan we were attacked from afghanistan so even if the doctrine is or is not an appropriate one it is not applicable to the situation before us but we were never attacked by an afghan that's not true al qaida was embedded in afghan society it was given safe by omar and the taliban leadership and they were given a chance to turn over al qaida and bin ladin before we attacked them and they refused time of the gentleman has expired the gentleman from destabilize pakistan and we have achieved that one day at a time for many years with a much much smaller force than we have at the present time little lone planned there is a bolder objective and that is that we achieve our minimal objectives without having to have troops there that we have a functioning afghan army achieving that goal with those two goals for us and then there's the maximum objective of  functioning perhaps even democratic afghan state we've rejected the idea of a smaller number of troops for a longer number of days because it clashes not so much with our strategic objectives but with our national culture playing defense and having to do it for as long as you have something to defend maybe the roman way it is not the american way you've got a number of questions and i'll ask for responses for the record if time doesn't permit but i'll start with the admiral this plan is based on roughly five thousand additional allied troops which may or may not materialize if we don't get but a small percentage of those five thousand troops we need to abandon this plan do we need to put in more american troops or those five thousand really not essential or day when we don't need to have any troops in afghanistan now if the strategy works we're going to have a functioning government in afghanistan sometime after two middle of two thousand and eleven and that will prevent the taliban's return e we prepared to go to the american people and say counter we tried counter insurgency it didn't work not a fault of the u s military and that we're returning to counterterrorism or are we promising the american people that by two thousand and twelve thousand and thirteen we will be out of afghanistan congressman i think it's important to draw the contrast between combat troops and between support troops the kind that would be continuing to train provide logistics perhaps intelligence airlift the support that the afghans might need going forward we have certainly determined that we have to stand up the afghan security forces as quickly and effectively as possible so that the combat mission can transition that is exactly what we are attempting to do in twenty thirty or twenty fourteen i happen to believe that as we implement the strategy that the president outlined last night we will change the reality on the ground we will improve the chances of success in this mission t table that invited the most vigorous debate i think admiral mullen said for those of us who participated in i think it was ten meetings with the president and probably three times that many among ourselves it was an exhausting and thorough process that led us to the decision that the president announced last night i don't think any of us believe that there were any easy or simple or quick options that we thought responsibly could be adopted this is the best  time frame which is often at the core of the concerns people reflect is intended to do two things because there are so many audiences for this policy it is intended to send a message of both resolve and urgency the resolve that we are committed we're going to put additional troops in our young men and women we want a long term civilian commitment but that there is an urgency to this that we cannot just have the americans on our forty two other nation contributors bear this burden that the afghans governmentally and among the people have to step up and that's what we are attempting to  think this is one of the central issues that you know obviously the good news is that americans should feel good about is that in afghanistan that the al qaeda presence is very diminished the maximum estimate is less than one hundred operating in the country no basis no ability to launch attacks on either us or our allies he says the problem is with sanctuaries across the border he said but i don't i don't forsee the return of the talabani and i want to be clear that afghanistan is no longer in danger imminent danger of falling now if you have a statement like that it might suggest caution in inserting thirty thousand more troops and then a or if we already acknowledge that there afghanistan is not in danger imminent danger of falling what constitutes success in july when we're going to decide whether we should pull troops out or not  no one thinks that the government in kabul is in eminent imminent risk of being overthrown but it was certainly the conclusion of general mcchrystal assessment that the situation was serious and deteriorating and we have seen the taliban get more aggressive and more bold with each passing week what we want to do is helping the afghans make sure that that government doesn't fall and that we are able distinguished as for her testifying i listened very carefully the president's speech last night and i'm willing to give the president the benefit of the doubt but my fear as is the fear of so many others is that we could easily get bogged down in an endless war what happens if this doesn't work do we do we leave in three years as the president stated or do we stay longer what happens if general mcchrystal makes another public speech  saying that he needs that ten thousand more troops in attempting to back the president into a corner what do we do then we talk about afghanistan and pakistan i noted that just last week their representatives abstained in the recent resolution the i a e a resolution critical of iran's nuclear program if these are our allies i'd hate to see what our enemies think so they're all these questions and  finally and then i would like anyone to comment on anything i've said where is osama bin laden and why can't we seem to to get him if we're relying on our intelligence to tell us that this is what we should be doing next in afghanistan and our intelligence can't even tell us where he is there was a recent senate report which says that shortly after the war in afghanistan began we had osama bin laden and we let him slip survival and they do it really well and it's not and we have good intelligence and good agencies and it's improved a great deal and i rely on them tremendously that said it's still it's still a big problem and it doesn't mean we're not trying to president has said it the military leadership understands it that this is not open ended and we are not going to escalate we believe that that these troops this strategy the civilian surge that goes with it the opportunity we have because pakistan is making progress we've got a new president afghanistan we've got the right leadership on the ground got the right leadership in the embassy now is the time and we can actually turn this thing around and so i don't have an expectation that it's that we're going to get bogged down there or that will be will be a request for any additional troops secretary clinton congressman i think that you're focused on bin laden is absolutely appropriate i share your frustration that eight years of the attack that devastated new york has not led to the killing or capturing of bin laden and his principal lieutenants as admiral mullen said we have degraded their leadership we have been successful in going after a number of the  mainstays of his organization but we haven't gotten him and we haven't got gotten our hearing and we haven't got and i think that that has to be a primary goal of what it is we're doing and it certainly is for me and i think it is for the president and part of the strategy that we're unfolding we think will assist us and i would just add that you know this strategy has been largely on the military side influenced by general  of timetables for withdrawal and get your reaction you you made mention earlier the bush administration did embrace a timetable for withdrawal of course after the surge worked when president bush announced the surge in iraq he did not announce a timetable for withdrawal the timetable was negotiated in the status of forces agreement following what was universally accepted to be the success of the  surge and so my question is really about this business of timetables because my democrat colleagues i think made more than a dozen efforts in two thousand and seven and two thousand and eight to impose timetables for withdrawal  on our efforts in iraq fortunately unsuccessfully on the floor and the president made reference to that july two thousand and eleven statement in april of two thousand and seven with regard to iraq quote i've been pretty clear that i think the enactment of specific deadlines would be a bad mistake in september of this year you told c n n quote i think the notion of timelines and exit strategies and so on frankly i the surge in iraq but it was quite clear that domestically it could not be sustained indefinitely and the reality is the surge in iraq lasted fourteen months the president is talking about at least eighteen twenty four months with this i would say that well first of all i have adamantly opposed deadlines i opposed them in iraq and i opposed deadlines  afghanistan the president has announced it is the beginning of a process not the end of a process and it is clear that that there  from focusing on afghanistan and that's why we find ourselves in this terrible situation that we're discussing here today i think it was you had milan the talked about turning it around we've been there eight years now and we're still talking about turning it around is eighteen months going to be sufficient we've been talking about training the afghan army the afghan police the rates of decision have been particularly disturbing during the entire eight years and here we are  in two thousand and nine going into two thousand and ten talking about training and and building and i mean what has happened over the course of eight years when you  in my view when you under resource an effort for an extended period of time when you are in many ways starvin effort the impact and i don't just mean what forces because we've done it with training we've done it intellectually we've done it diplomatically politically you name it we we focused on the other war and that was a priority and the impact of that i think is evident in where we are right now so i understand better than anybody that this is our ninth year of war and we're losing people and every single one is a tragedy and i understand that but in many ways this strategy is a new strategy and it's as if we were starting over and i know we're not but what i said earlier with where what pakistan has done move we've got a new government or i'm sorry new leadership freshly elected leadership in afghanistan we've got new leaders on the ground and as well on all those things let me interrupt you that's a very difficult tale to tell to the american people that have been there going on nine years and here we are still talking about turning it around i respect what you said i concur with what you said and let me indicate all three of you have  country very well but we're here to make a policy decision at some point in time in terms of what opposition is going to be the president talked about consultation in conversations with world leaders  during the meeting that secretary clinton is going to tomorrow and at the london conference in january i would point out that the japanese have committed five billion dollars for afghanistan we have some f does that cover and if we're talking about an eighteen months can you give us an estimate of the additional monies that are going to cost the american people r two thousand and ten will be about one hundred sixty five billion dollars let me conclude by commenting on an observation mr payne of new jersey regarding india secretary clinton if you have time ever consulted with the indians in terms of their relationship with pakistan in reducing the concern that the pakistanis have relative to in you mr chairman and i want to thank our witnesses for being here today and for your service to our country i agree with many of the president's points in his speech i too believe that with every fiber of my being that we as americans can still come together  behind a common purpose nonetheless i disagree with the president's decision to personally relate to our enemies when they can regroup and when they can retake afghan territory i simply cannot understand and cannot agree with this approach for president obama to indicate that he has already made a decision that will take effect in eighteen months irrespective of what the situation is on the ground not only in is our enemies but allows them to prepare and plan imagine that the taliban leadership telegraphed to the world that on a certain day they would reinforce a certain region and on another day they would withdraw their forces that doesn't make sense and neither does president obama's decision to tell our enemies what our plans are and in fact when the president says that we will begin to withdraw troops in july two thousand and eleven doesn't that in fact say to all of you to begin your plans to withdraw all troops which takes our eye off the ball shouldn't s and victory in terms of achieving our objectives was not possible again i would say that you know are the taliban going to be more emboldened than they already are because of this announcement i don't think they are moving as aggressively now as we have ever seen them and what what are they going to do are they going to lie low for eighteen months that would be a terrific news because that would give us open field running are they going to go back to pakistan and wait now for eighteen months terrific it gives us the opportunity without opposition to help the afghans build are they going to lie low in afghanistan if they are not attacking afghans if they are not blowing things up if they are not attacking our coalition troops then again that gives us a huge opportunity on the other hand if they're going to engage if they're going to be as bold and as aggressive as they've been over the past year then they will encounter one hundred fifty thousand foreign troops and a couple of hundred thousand afghan troops who will root them out and we will those that are willing to come over to the government side and we will take care of the rest but the point is  they're going to confront a very aggressive and very capable military force not just for the next eighteen months again july two thousand and eleven is not a cliff it is the beginning of a gradual process of turning over clear we will not finish giving members opportunity to ask a question to the panel has another thirty five minutes next week we will be having hearing with top we hope to having hearing it's not all tied down yet with leaders in the field both on the military and civilian side with the intention of the chair to start the questioning at a hearing where we leave off today congratulations to the youngest clinton on her decision to make a monument to move in her life it's a very long thoughtful process i i also want to thank the president the united states for as he ended his speech last night talking about the american people coming together and being unified i think that we have forgotten that right after nine eleven the american people and in fact this congress almost unanimously want to go into afghanistan to make sure that we start doing the work that's being done now the only  time that that we became divided as a nation is when this president decided that afghanistan was not to be our focus that iraq should be and i think that part of what the president is trying to do is to bring this country back together so that we can refocus on where we was in the beginning when this horrific act took place that killed so many american people's medical citizens and i think that's the direction that we need to be going moving back into and united as a country democrats and republicans would together at that particular time and we should be together again as we move forward to do it we have to do and not as secretary gates says abandoning afghanistan for several reasons  so i want to compliment the president on that with that being said i also know that secretary gates and admiral mullen have indicated that we need to show the american people a shift in momentum within twelve to eighteen months to ensure public support and my question is what do you think will demonstrate such a shift in momentum that we can make sure that we have the confidence of the american  wrong direction from security that gives us an opportunity to train and transfer security responsibility to the afghan security forces i also think it's very clear we need to see progress on the part of the karzai government this gets to the ministers eventual governors things like reconciliation reintegration local governance how that is going as well we need to look at and i'm calmer i'm optimistic look contra continuing contributions on the part of national partners as a measure and this is forty three countries we're not in this alone at all forty three countries are here so those are some of the areas that we would look at for progress insurgency it's very focused it's focused on keeping key production centers in lines of communications it's not focused throughout the country and in fact we're going to ask our coalition partners to focus in the north and west  because the worst part of the insurgency is in the south in the east in the pashtoon bout and that's where we that's where we've sent the marines in the south and we will continue that will put forces in there to turn the tide there but there there is a counterterrorism piece of this look at it year to year we know what we need we know we have we know the things we have to fix with our with the afghan security forces right now and we know where we want to be one year from now two years from now and we're going to assess that and that's a high risk area for us so rather than put something out there that we couldn't achieve we're going to look at it constantly but literally year to year and focus on achieving our annual goals and lastly real quickly because i do about the payment of that but i heard some of that i know that when we  thank you for appearing today afghanistan is not america's challenge alone it's the world's problem and right now our ratio of u s troops to nato troops to the one after this surge will be three to one assuming no other nato input the president last night was not exactly clear in the nature of the commitments that are going to be forthcoming many of the world powers are content to sit while america i think it's important to recognize that until relatively recently the ratio between american and non american nato i stab troops was a very close because and the nato troops bob i think were that or a little bit more all together yeah and so now we we for this latest a decision by the president we were at sixty they were about at forty two something like that so it's been certainly a comparable commitment given the relative size of our respective force levels and i think admiral mullen said we get that kind of response we have reason to believe we will yes we will we will have additional support from our nato allies sapped allies we will still be at the end of our troop commitments about two to one but there will also be collective presence that is very significant since it was the united states was it was attacked and all these other countries under article five of nato others like australia coming in have really seen this fight which was picked with us as their fight as well congressman i'd just like to make one other point since nine hundred forty one the united states has borne a disproportionate responsibility for peace and security around the world this is not a new development and it has gone with our assumption of a world responsibility along with our world power thank you let me pivot to another question what is the definition of success and given this what is the probability of success i believe success in afghanistan looks a lot like from a security standpoint looks a lot like success and iraq and that is the gradual transfer of responsibility for security to the indigenous forces and the local government and with the united states being able to pull back the tactical and strategic overwatch and then withdraw our troops to the point where we have a minimal presence i think we ought to think about  if afghans want to prolong partnership well into the future of training and equipping but fundamentally it is the transfer of this responsibility to an afghan security force that is able to sustain that security and protect their own borders and the probability of that outcome i think if we did not believe that this outcome had a strong probability we would not have supported let's go back to the earlier point about international commitments now you mention the london conference you mentioned you're clearly trying to be nimble enough to allow other countries to manage their own internal political dynamics as they make these commitments but how hard and real is the momentum toward burdened with those i think it's very real before coming into the hearing i spoke with secretary general rasmussen the secretary general of nato he has been working very hard to help shape the commitments that nato members will be making and i know everybody table other world powers as well and other world powers as well and it's not only the commitment of troops which are very important but also the commitment of resources and there will be a number of announcements over the next days and weeks that we will be sure that this committee has noticed that gentleman's time has expired mr carnahan thank you mr chairman thank all of you here today secretary clinton you said this was one of the most complex foreign policy challenges you have in the weeks and months ahead we're making progress on that front congressman carnahan there are some areas where we can actually measure the progress  example in education there's been significant progress the united states has been quite involved in moving from a school population of a little less than a million nearly all of whom are boys to a population of seven million forty percent of whom are girls and there's about five to six million more so we're going to be able to measure that terms of agriculture which we think is a key strategic imperative because it is the best way to raise incomes to wean people from poppies the united states and other allies have been contributing to better seeds better fertilizer working with really quite competent and effective minister of agriculture the minister of finance has begun to move against a lot of the petty corruption that used to take their million cars in afghanistan it took a month and a half to get a car registered and you had to go through a lot of different hands to get there see with a transparent accountable partnership the progress being made we are now certifying agencies we're not going to put a penny of american assistance into any agency that is not certified so i think that as we go through this we will be submitting reports to this committee and other relevant committees demonstrating how our civilian assistance program support for governance the anti corruption efforts we're undertaking  working and what kind of expectations we have for them thank you and we also heard the president talk about these new resources that can allow us to make a final push  how quickly we're going to be able to train up the iraqi troops and police we were way off on those estimates in terms of quality quantity in terms of the time to train what lessons have we learned from that and what progress on the army we're way behind on the police there are several programs in place to get at this and i don't mean just brand new and then the fundamental shift as i said earlier about partnering with them in the field getting them off the bases so they are in  the villages together with our coalition forces we think that will accelerate the ability to transfer that responsibility and recommendation that we need more resources on the transition team this is one of the recommendations that was made was to do exactly what you're getting ready to do and that is a surge in forces in my view we get all into when  get out and i think that's how most americans feel about this issue the way you turn the iraq war around and many others i think there are many lessons to be learned by that the in fact that's happening if it is in my view that cuts off the intelligence flow because we can't get inside the terrorists head like we did with mohamed will the panel comment on i don't think that's true and they begin to verify whether there's a lot of misinformation out there that this is occurring well we'll try to find out for you but i don't have any reason to believe that the afghan forces where they're working together living together operating together too often in the past the afghans were over here and we did the fighting or we did whatever was going on and southern and eastern parts of afghanistan yes and we've taken significant steps to actually accomplish the integrated civilian military approach that  the teams that were out in the field when i was there for the inauguration and heard about how well they're coordinating and the fact that we're betting civilians with our military units so we're on the way to trying to implement exactly that kind i think it's fair to say that that assessment that general mcchrystal submitted in august was the basis of the entire dialogue we've had for the last three and a half months and what we have been  working on is how do we know that the assessment was based on on his view of what he was being asked to do by the president's decisions in march what troubled me fairly early on was that those decisions were being interpreted fairly broadly as a full scale nation building and creating a strong central government in afghanistan neither of which was our intent nor was it our ability to do in any reasonable timeframe and at any reasonable cost and so a good part of the debate in the discussion we've had is how do we focus that how do we narrow the mission so that we are focused on selective capacity building and the government capacity building that's essential to our success in the transition of security responsibility and ultimately the defeat of al qaeda how do we protect the population what populations do we need to protect how much of the country do we need to do that in  and so on and so that was a good part of the discussion but i would say that the starting point was his assessment hit home a third of the firefighters were killed that they came from my district over ten percent of the individuals and of the get the day because it was my first election was primary day in new york and we were out campaigning and we heard news of the first jet and then got down to  the injured to come back down on those the logical place to bring them and a lot of people came who were not injured we waited and waited and no survivors ever came and that was the most eerie feeling i think that any of us ever  felt i say that because i think we all realize on that day or the next day or the next day as a nation that we had a sacred trust a mission that we had to complete and it was simply as you said here today admiral to disrupt dismantle and  in afghanistan and pakistan and to prevent its capacity in the taliban to threaten america and our allies the country in the future unfortunately eight years later we're still sitting here talking about this because we as a nation were distracted we were led down a printed primrose path by the prior administration god knows why so many lives were lost so much treasure as people say were lost standing in the world and here we are back again completing this mission that it is indeed  sacred trust to do i want to thank you on behalf of the people that i represent for your resolve and the president's resolve to do this and that of secretary obviously from your testimony from your statement and to the way you've answered the questions you've not forgotten what we lost that day it was a tragedy and that if we were here in november of two thousand and one we would not be having the distracting questions you're hearing today are questions about individual cases of military justice they're certainly important but that should not distract us again in issues of the timeline and whether that should destructors again we must be resolved i'm so proud of you that you have that resolve i do want to ask you question just from sort of a geo political point of view if you look at the map of afghanistan you look around and you see the countries that surround it many are muslim including turkey and clearly the turks in particular because they are muslims well i've had great success in afghanistan and dealing with the people there and getting their trust what are we doing to encourage more help from turkey and help from turkmenistan and help from then and to stand and from china and from india and i was in pakistan all these countries that border afghanistan would seem to me that their responsibilities should be raised and their involvement should be raised could you just tell us is there hope there that the regional solution can be as well as as a global congressman thank you for what you said and for your leadership and we are certainly working to add to the list of countries who are working on behalf of this  mission turkey has been a great ally and they've been with us from the very beginning they're a nato ally and there is a troop contributing countries in afghanistan united arab emirates has also contributed troops and money we expect that other countries will be as well and we'll be announcing some of those i think that the regional picture is a little more challenging but we've gotten a lot of good help from the center countries in assisting us with the transit of material with the use of military bases the admiral just reminded me jordan has also been working with us so we think that our renewed effort the president's resolve is actually going to bring more countries into this fight i happen to agree unfortunately with the thrust of your comment that know we just took our eye off the most important ball and there is no doubt in my mind that had we stayed with it had we paid more attention to our commanders on the ground in afghanistan because it's a longer history i know some of the people who did have command responsibility afghanistan and there were very frequent requests up the chain of command for additional resources but we are where we are right now and just because it's been a frustrating and challenging eight years and it's unfortunate that this president has to face up to the hard decisions that we as a country have to make doesn't mean we shouldn't be doing what we're