and vote on them after discussions each one or any of the points to discuss so starting with article hope twenty two that's the capital appropriation recall for the capital appropriation this point it's the capital procreation itself is one point four million dollars well precisely one million four hundred four thousand one hundred eighty one dollars the cost of necessary tires station here yes i think it's just the way it's worded it says for the purchase of public safety equipment it's really not for purchase of public safety equipment it's really for the repairs to the building as i understand it and so i just wonder if you want to just have clerk and the time treasurer the time treasurer is a two percent kolo very good performer and the town clerk so some number of years ago now these are not union positions but some number of years ago they were pegged to even hear levels so i believe in sea level eighteen and she is entitled if she were union to take the four percent thing that we've been doing for several years based on the old have a formula your total is five hundred seventy one thousand dollars of which four hundred seventy two is coming from the regular  four twenty five the only ones remain right so i'll just state the obvious anybody who's maybe watching or whatever but you know what we've just heard is that there is one point six million dollars being used for free cash reserve fund balance another one point three million from general budget so we're doing it because we need to and it was something we thought it was when it was a result of the override never able to fund essential level services budget this year but it's not a sustainable thing to do so if we will run out of money at this general stabilization fund if we keep doing this there will be therefore need to either have another override or reduce our expenditure in the next seven years just to get some of that in right in this room probably knows but i just you know like we're stretching it longer than we initially thought right but we never expected that we wouldn't some point run out it was always part of the plane disappeared understand this isn't something that just happened it was by design which is actually playing out better than we thought but it's better than we thought is not great but better than identical polls and there was a discussion of league night between me and floyd harman about what the bottom line effect on the unfunded pension liability would be and i received some actually my comments applied to both twenty four and twenty five in terms of the bottom  line effect on the underfunded pension liability i have up to now been relying on the actuarial calculations done by the siegel so that we received last year and was the basis for our discussion last year and there was some uncertainty certainly in my mind and i think in floyd's mind about what the actual effect would be in our discussion monday  night i received some material from floyd this morning a fortune i was traveling most of the day and didn't have much time to really study it right thought floyd was returning to the position that the siegle numbers from last year were reliable and he was using in effect of one hundred eighty thousand dollars total increase in the unfunded liability for article twenty four and approximately the basis on which seagle did their calculations last year so now i am not sure what to make of it i was prepared to vote on these things tonight on the assumption that the siegle numbers from last year where viable but there's now some question that we need to further review i would suggest holding off on voting on these articles until we know for sure what the actual real impact is but just further three people would be an increase of fifteen thousand for fifty six which includes the cola for half way nineteen over eighteen so that would be the net impact and if one thousand a fifteen thousand for fifty six obviously that goes out for the next eleven years year and to your point right nothing has changed in the conditions so that would be the potential impact on the liability of all the assumptions of the funding schedule and the return suggest me last year that this could get hired if a certain percentage of those twenty their spouses qualify for this benefit oh i think florida said do a fifty fifty i think he said fourteen i remember reading somewhere twenty actually it was twenty last year unfortunately it's down to fourteen thousand now and so he said let's say fifty percent would take this jennifer says a potential seven others and my view on this and time meeting i abstain during the war committee vote but  them from what i understand and i might is that if you started retirement before one thousand nine hundred seventy there are new policies in place that if someone were tires after nine hundred ninety seven there's there the town employee passes away dispose automatically gets to twelve thousand to twelve thousand a year this is for a fix like group of people who are caught between a policy change that's the extent to what i know that was my understanding maybe it's not if you vote harder if you were hired before ninety seven you didn't have this option to will let this benefit for a while you could elect it and now it's automatic get so this is treating people who were hired before ninety seven equivalent just last year at the at this life when i was the one who was against the versions of twenty four twenty five last year when i spoke of time beating i think i was more softly against it i mean it's not the hill i wanted to die on but it was a matter of principle that we have higher so now we have to go higher to meet the schools that the schools will hire just as rancher the fact the other on the other hand is what you have said to me and what jack said there's a fairness thing and i understand it the money's not huge i understand it's i'm not grossly in favor or last year's version of this was to adjust the base to fourteen thousand and now they're changing that lowering it to thirteen thousand so that is some movement on their part which i take that in the spirit which is being offered which i think is to try to help it out so the language here provides a benefit to saying that there's a new full on the special benefit on this this change but then there's this other argument and maybe i'm mixing up the two articles this is another argument that we need to which i find maybe get that just applies to twenty five this thing about having to teach you how to treat and treat them the same way as the teachers which i that's in my head it's like kind of i don't see why they're different they're fundamentally different jobs they're different contracts everything about  mean the argument someone is using the teachers as a comparison in both cases if we're not talking about teachers well this is you know the argument is that the teachers get these things the town or the classes do not and the idea future then we'll twenty five like if that if the teach will well then this line of thinking gee i mean i'm i'm personally inclined to vote in favor of both of these but i'm trying to understand where these arguments take us in the future so is if someone is to looking at this and comparing it to where the teachers are for twenty five because it seems like the twenty four is kind of this like close box of people then in the future if the teachers want to jass then is this argument going to continue to be like we adjust he's just another one other point of information i've read it sounds like we're talking twenty four twenty five together is that where we want to head but if we are i neglected to ask floyd last time he was here but i think i cost of living increase in the median pension fund holders you know i think that's important just piece of information to have out there when you think about it that's at the higher number and that's the total that's not the marginal impact i've been struggling for a mental model for this because in other areas that i'm familiar with for example my wife's retirement my own retirement plan that i found  myself it's a fixed annuity and that is a fixed amount for the rest of your life there's no cola just right there's no increase the fact that somebody gets a cold or doesn't essentially a loophole that tax a very small number of people to every twenty three who are receiving a lower benefit than everybody else is in the system whether they're on the town side or the schools are right so there's so one of ways of thinking about this from an equity or fairness perspective is imagine if everyone were receiving it and we certainly discovered that we could actually take the benefit away from these three people legally could do that would we legally take the benefit away from these three people were that be something we'd be comfortable doing oh so it seems to me like we should treat these three people like everybody else and yes it costs them money but that's the right thing to and clarity as to what the potential risk of this was and what the problems were my point is that the conversation i remember from last year was about you know we have these eight funds that we're trying to stretch out as long as possible and do we really want you know it may not be a huge amount of money but do we really want to be increasing something when we're trying to stretch it out but i think as you said i think the other same point that money does that mean to me when you look at the budget impact on a one hundred million dollar annual budget in consequential it's what one one thousandth of a percent or something like that when you look at the liability the actual area liability relative to the pension fund gets a tenth of a percent of that liability it's such a small dollar amount there are lots of  made about that pension liability and i don't think we should focus too much on trying to solve our eighty million dollar problem on the backs of these three people so as a fairness issue i think that we should support life my alice state again the confusion that i shared on monday night the siegel report that we got last year has a column which says call the base increase price i mean maybe we don't do it another company some sort of improvement that could wait i mean maybe there's decisions that are made about the next playground and just i know there's a c p a but i just i struggle with that the low impact of this is that we have the liability it's not the the fault of the retirees that this liability exists i think we owe it to them to meet the their needs to and if you look at the the amount of the be given on an individual basis is quite low so i struggle with that  you know i said last week that both arguments were not unreasonable i don't i still don't see that the decision  last year that we took was a clear and the benefits were what they were the times people retired and we are delivering on the promise that we made at that time and the fact that the world changed afterwards to me is is not a compelling argument and i understand that people could the further discussion all those in in favor of a favorable action on article twenty four of those opposed i'm assuming somehow if they have this a three three percent on twelve thousand the first twelve or so if you were to move so that would be one hundred one in this three hundred thirty two currently draw so that would be one hundred nineteen thousand five twenty three moves to thirteen thousand and three percent it's going to go two hundred twenty nine thousand and forty the differential of nine thousand nine hundred sixty dollars per year so it's on the first thirteen thousand to three percent that's what you would get now unfortunately looking at the serial numbers from last year they have two numbers out there and they have what the impact would be on the and this was going to fourteen thousand so it would be one hundred thirty nine thousand for forty three went to fourteen thousand which was the record the request last year the unfunded liability impact according to these numbers siegel last year is one point seven million throughout the life of the ability the number that i get confused with is that they said for f y nineteen dollars and there's a line that says unfunded liability additional cost one hundred eighty four thousand dollars and that's the number we were working on we discussed this last year and that's the number that's been on my mind tonight is this is this for twenty four twenty five have a line that says an unfunded liability additional costs one hundred eighty four thousand dollars and jeff i understood you to say you believe that the correct number was one hundred eighty seven but those of the new number i think it's just been revised but i appropriation two hundred thirty five thousand dollars you know the material and by the same reasoning on my part my that was that if going to fourteen thousand dollars increases the liability by one point seven million then an increase to thirteen thousand dollars which is only half the amount would be an increase of half of one point seven billion dollars which is roughly eight hundred fifty thousand and that's what i said all right but now what i understand from floyd's material today is that it's not free he's not referring to the hundred he's not referring to the one point seven that all referring to this the questions out there i know so in other words you're thinking that they came up with the wrong number for what we were exactly from looking this and trying to back into their calculations and looking at the data that oil provided that you are seeking because if the differential but if you take that two thousand dollars from last year two thousand dollar increase in the call of base times three percent is sixteen dollars per year times three hundred thirty retiree's that's about just under twenty thousand so looking at the liability of a slight increase for three projecting out to be one hundred eighty something thousand it seems to me that if we go to a twenty thousand dollars increase in the and will cost you could get to a liability over the life of those employees and its existing employees and future employees by i think you could get to internet i hope so so a very very very the number is questionable and we see more information all right well it would be unfortunate if we were working off of faulty information last year but rather than try to second guess what siegel should have done i would came up when i think when we had our committee and i to do something i didn't completely understand then and maybe jeff or mike remembers more clearly the answer is so i recall that like a contract that we had in like are we going to get into a new contract like well you know i guess i have two questions one is if we're going to new contract which is and the other one is just kind of a process question around there's like turnover on it's you know there can be turnover of course on things and it's it seems a problem to have major contracts lapse when there's a vacancy so i'm just wondering what process you were here when this happens i'm just warning kind of going forward how do we think about how to manage situations where there's you know a very significant contract that you know it sounds to me based on the limited information i have you know should have somehow been addressed or renewed or something should've taken place flagged by somebody to the truce is there a  saying you know working to get to the end of this thing year and then moving forward making sure that sounds like not only were missing two layers of oversight even without oversight there still was a process in place and it sounds like the trees and you know formulating that process to the hopefully looks like we're tracking based on that third quarter report where we've been you know in prior years and there's usually turn back so you could roll the dice and say well the turn backs will eventually lead to the increase here and i can run into the war committee on june twenty eighth if it looks like i'm going to fall short or you can take bill unexpended portion of the work committee money apply and then only and then you have more term backs and that it just seems to me it just kind of has a supply type of contract for the utility is something or other and has a germination for convenience contract and the price drops you can germinate the contract to go buy cheaper reserve on transfer and hopefully a final for an article twenty five if you move on then to the third quarter review i distribute the i distributed materials on the town side confident that that revenue i don't know if it will make up the difference going to lot of it is huge to we end up taking the revenue in this organise next quarter and then the expenses are always the first quarter the next year because that's when july and august which was significantly higher than we've seen recently two hundred ninety seven of the old hundred twenty five that are sold to nonresidents and that said they almost twice the price that we sell them to residents and so far we have not had complaints street ok so you are expecting a significant and have seen it we've seen a significant i mean that's not much higher than last actually the numbers down and it actually the numbers down from the last two years and that's it was kind of curious about that because we haven't had meters in downtown belmont ever before that i know of and i would have thought that would she was so i don't know if that's related to something else  if they prepaid all of their proper property taxes for the teen they were they would know the amount for february and may and maybe would make you gas on well so there was no advantage but this would this number reflect the fiscal year eighteen taxes that were prepaid so that that's why we're eighty five percent instead of seventy five which is on the second page the first line is called receives reserve appropriated parking meters and i'm just not sure what that is because it's lower than it were two hundred fifteen thousand and we budgeted eighty so i'm just trying to put that together with working fines and all these other parking numbers that you may not have the answer right now but i'm just trying to understand what that is true because usually those funds are either pretty set like they're not revenues that are coming in that move up and down a lot of which i don't remember which your public was you begin by stating the things you have in your mind and then won't respond well so you know as we're moving to the end of the year and i think this happened last year i think i was in china last the last meeting of the year and maybe there weren't as many potential things on the plate of the warrant committee at the end of the year but we've been talking about some such special projects or or summer related activities for example point together some people to work with the capital budget committee because there are more than one committee to take a look at how we  there was some interest i'm pulling some people from from all of these relevant committees to talk about how can how we can improve the capital budget and that's possibly something that that might be tackled over the summer  don't know if you want to speak to this this is the idea of taking a town wide look at that i had tea because we have five different groups within the town administration three of those groups i guess or one one employee each or one structured and we have talked about it through the course of the general government working on the report i've been looking at this for the last several years and while i work with dave pet o in doing the work committee report that there is not a comparable deep dive into the other four i t departments and i think that in a minute we need to at least look at all five with a similar l but in addition i think that we could also look to see you know are are there things that could or should be done that we might see by looking at all five that we don't see by looking at just one if there really support that  we're doing and how they make me different or the same and what can be done or not be done and i think patrice as we talk to you about this and also and and then there's this separate eighty committee or something too in just understanding sort of the dynamics of who's doing what party to a discussion like that is the security because that all has to do with you know technology and instant stalling technology in different departments and how different departments prioritize and collaborate for that and this year that was hardware considerations software considerations training training and i don't know that this is this summer project right think it's a project and i think that it's i just don't think it and so i just i really think that we need to start looking at i t and it doesn't have to start of the summer can start in the fall but i think it's something that we need to be looking at more broadly  well and looking at the funding more guess right and that so that jamie was great as we were talking about this bringing up the fact that they said on the capital budget committee and they get requests from multiple departments for different ninety six capital expenses and you know hard for them to balance i mean there are things from two different places you know if you nice if they all sort of funneled through one place to prioritize i think it's important to look at also tremendous efficiencies that we can derive and also it's going to just cost more and more as technology more and more a part of what's been happening so i think i think i'd be interested in patrice in sort of because it can be as big as see what t his project could be very big you know like what efficiencies can we get out of we buy a lot of like after looking at public safety thought a lot of suffering and i'm not sure we're using it the way we want to use it in terms of you know getting the data and the information out of it so i'm interested patrice in in what your thoughts are whether it's appropriate for the warrant committee to look at this or whether you want to look at it more on it and you to adam on the town wife to have something that looks at it in a different way or create or combine i t department them but i think my thinking was that you know there might be some special focus areas that we could spend some time on during the summer as well as the fall so that we're better prepared as we tackle the budget  so another one and this is this is one that i that i sort of put on the west and i don't know whether anyone else feels concerned about this but i always feel ill prepared to deal with employee compensation and benefit issues there are big drivers in the budget and so much of them are determined by union contract or they're going up every year and i know that they're going up as a result of negotiations in order to try to stay competitive with other towns in part as well as to try to address equity concerns and in stand what we pay our town employees and the benefits that we provide  i'm not actually sure what what we might do here this is something that i'd like to learn more about so that i feel more prepared as you know we talk with the police department the fire department and any of the departments about compensation does this point to whatever that financial task force my understanding was that that set out some guidelines for be doing the new ok so maybe somehow that i'm not saying to dismiss that but it seems like that links up with this long term plan things separate from the question of what compensation levels should and it sounds like the column center project is supposed to generate a spreadsheet modeling tool that will allow us to explore the implications of different compensation structures so this may well not be something w the future with with separate square zones and future overrides i think a lot about distribution of tax of property tax burden i know elizabeth this is something that you've mentioned before but i think you and i are thinking about very different things and i'm thinking well so so you talked at one of her meetings about one of the ideas that you were interested in exploring wonder whether the town is doing all that it should be doing with regard to taking advantage of potential distributional assistance to seniors low income seniors as currently provided by state law and you know frankly when i talk to folks in my precinct a lot of the older folks that i talk to are concerned about tax loads where is the money going to come from i don't know that they're i don't know that they're aware of what the town currently offers in terms of assistance for example there are there are things long run it actually benefits us because of the interest rate that we can charge others for taxes which you know doesn't come into play until they sell the house but in the short run and operate i would be happy to under state law and you know might be worth but i think we have talked before about us longer or more of us meeting with the assessor to see what the possibilities are i'm not sure exactly what all the complications were because state law allows you to do certain things now and certain changes may require action at the state level which would be more complicated  the second was do we want it's not how we can charge a differential tax rate but what we can do is provide a residential exemption so for someone who's a resident  the appropriate ones to initiate some of these studies and i think the short answer is we need to close a loop greater than one of the practical issues is that most of the proposals or maybe all the proposals that i've heard so far involve others have an immediate revenue impact which in the long run may actually be neutral but there's some period of years before you get to a steady state i think you're absolutely right the answer is that things we've got most of the senior assistance is means tested so you can't just be elderly you have to be held really was the existing i think it's called chapter forty one property tax deferral and i think it's age and income tested and i was proposing or actually exploring with low grants burger briefly an alternative to that program but it they raised issues that we didn't pursue further to have free cash on your little project which  did i don't but i'm just you know i'm not picking up the projects i'm thinking i do for your sort of brainstorming about potential projects i would suggest free cash beyond as we're going to sort through absolutely actually given like kind people looking at to think about in terms of improvement how can we be more effective and you know it's sort of when i think about these kinds of things one of the things of the top of my  is this notion of is there a way for us to be more effective by engaging with the board of selectmen and the town administrator earlier in the process  so that we're not just being reactive to the tap to the budget that's developed by the time administrator in the selectmen but perhaps you know we might be sitting in some meetings beforehand meetings with departments providing input not not controlling the discussion not not deciding what you or the board of selectmen want want to put forward but you know having an opportunity to have some input earlier in the process and this is really just an open question and in part it sort of stems from this whole discussion about is there any way that we can improve how we budget for for the keep the capital budget side of the budget and that's a question of it is is there or are there any ways in which we can integrate better and work better with the other town committees i think we're already doing and in some important ways that you know for example the example of of our education subcommittee working so closely with with the school committee and i just am wondering whether there are ways in which we can be better plugged into some of some of the other town committees to help make what we do and in terms of budget recommendations or a little bit more fulsom but we clearly have liaison with the capital budget committee one of the weakest links we identified in previous discussion with was contact with the planning board which since we no longer have a plan a board member on the ground to me and i  i would suggest if we're going to look at the capitol but if i may as well we should look at that in the context of just how we manage our capital assets for all because they're obviously the major capital projects but there's also major events and how much that's the operating budget has an effect on little less to come to the capital budget committee and all these things need to be balanced but i'm particularly moving forward in the next few years because the capital budget committee is not going to have a lot of the future override the rate we use we will have used up the barrie cassidy built into the last one for something other than what was originally intended yes for that capacity so i mean it's great it's creatively solving the problem but we're we're squeezing turning to a problem we had before which is not enough barrie cassidy for some of these big items that we really need to be able to that we've talked about how it seemed almost we were backed into almost like an emergency i will use that word but an urgent need to bring up our collective i mean there are people here that are i'm sure there are that are and then it's going to be cost it out and you're right by the end of august and for the fall to the meeting so my own thought on that was that in terms of where they weren't committee could say something potentially useful in time for the vote in november is to address actually a pretty narrow question which is what explaining the s b a reimbursement the effect of the reimbursement to the town because i think for the broad design of the budget associated with the design that is really the responsibility of the building committee those decisions have largely been made already but i think in terms of educating as a whole there's likely to be a lot of confusion or concern about people hearing on the one hand there must be a reimbursement rates of a third or forty percent versus that an effective rate that think we could do a service to the whole town is explaining if the high school goes down what is the cost of play that definitely needs to be done i'm not sure we're the ones who can do that somebody to that's got yeah that's got that's got to come from the school department i mean and we can encourage that but in terms of you know what would be the player like what would he do the next day in order to address the enrollment what would he do in order to address the you know the really significant problems with the building that need to be you know between the electrical and plumbing and all of this sort of stuff you know the science labs that are not that you know we get warnings from credit i mean there's a real  muslims but it's i don't know what we can bring to that other than trying to get that information out of the school department seems to me there are two different things what are you focused on what are the operational time for plan b think what you were referring to thought about the words in your mouth this what are the financial implications for plane b and they got to go hand in hand but we could help people understand the what if you feel like you're getting tax savings by not voting for the school what are the real for hidden financial costs that are going to whether to do with nine to twelve eight to twelve seven to twelve the superintendent hired estaminet to come and cost out you know well if you did nine to twelve you would then have to do this to the wind  complicated question where where the school department would have to make what have to devise a strategy of what to do i think maybe what we could do that would relist that we have the time frame is really by november is work with the school committee and the superintendent to hear what their strategy is and help explain it but not i don't think we can we're not in a position to devise a strategy so  to start earlier this year in september then and have you know a meeting invite the school department to one of our first meetings to kind of give us an update and their thoughts on how they're going to you know what the alternative make an opinion to bring to town we meaning we have to vote on something and so we need to understand it ourselves and i think by having the school department come and discuss it with us also it will also allow it to be aired a little bit more broadly and so and i think that's that's my whole point of sort of having them come and speak with us it's not that we're going to make any of those decisions nor should we be able to put we are going to we have to then make an assessment about how are those two things going to sell us and i also think what we're doing is we're setting the agenda i would like to think that they are doing nance but i think we have a role to play in making sure they are doing it so we can we can initiate the questions and initiate this code given the time  see if we can move that along jack of all things we talked about to me this seems like the ideal summer project because the argument in the school committee are probably not in you know kind of operational mode the  administration is probably got more capacity so i mean this doesn't sound like the perfect time and we really probably need to have a pretty good picture laid out come september if the vote's going to be the first week in november so i mean that does sound like an ideal thing for the two groups and ministrations to to come together on and try to formulate that picture over the summer ok well let's just in the interest of time let's acknowledge this is an issue i think ellen and i can at least begin talking to the superintendent immediately and then in our meeting in june we can discuss this and more but i agree we can we can get started on this mike i can anticipate some of the other redundant with the notion of of getting involved with the town earlier on the budget i think that's sort of what i really had in my mind ok and so that should come off for us next point officer selection under oath  so i've given this quite a bit of thought since last year and i'm prepared to suggest that we actually not have a nominating committee but move to  here's what i would do and i intend to ask at the last meeting in june whether anybody is interested in being considered for the office of the system because my biggest concern is having a what are officers do we have their eye in the chair i'll let vice chair and mike a separate out and then we have an informal tradition that the chair serves three years next year will be my third year and i don't expect to serve a fourth year so the question of succession is very much on that's job description of the next year well that's just asking a question so just to get an idea of where we stand i want to hold a membership in june to see who is who is interested in at least me and if people step forward that's great but that will not be a nominating committee because since that has been deemed to be subject to open meetings law the complications of scheduling meetings physically me over the summer when people are away minutes and all of having a nominating committee is something that i would not necessarily support argue less or some real argument for it i don't know who made the judgment that has to be under open meaning oh let's assume that that's true for the moment but you know look we do lots ok that's a quote from the town council but all that in the background my concern is making sure we don't have vacancies and in the fall at the first meeting i would like to make the first meeting what i think happens many other committees where people put themselves in nomination and that is that there is a discussion in the meeting so instead of having a nominating committee working during the summer there would be first meeting of the year were people willing to do the job explain why they would like to do it and then they would be an open vote this jack group it strikes me that they're not mutually exclusive you could have that process in june and a nominating committee who met over the summer i do think even if it's under public meeting on i think i'd echo much explain here we have lots of sub committee meetings that are under over meeting law and nobody from the public shows up and the minute say discuss potential candidates for but as the minutes at you know so it seems to me that you're not really kind of judge  candor i think the issue here is not whether members of the public at large are interested in the workings of the nominee if there is competition within the work committee itself or an officer position i there's concern about whether the nominating committee is favoring one candidate versus another whether the minutes fully reflect the discussion that was really had i would predict i mean it only becomes an issue if somebody is unhappy and and rather than have somebody become unhappy because of a process that they think is not one hundred percent transparent in the way they would like i would rather have it all in the open and have the entire office or nomination and discussion process held in our regular meeting in which case there's no i mean everybody here is competent and capable and hopefully willing to do it and  the previous two or three years which it was never a committee was aware in group and then it would have a conference call by telephone with the members as a kind of free willy discussion about everyone's possible dynamics are of this group and in the past my intuition is that if we do try to do it all in a public meeting people are more inclined to sit on their hands and not not nominate themselves then they would be more willing to if they were tapped on the shoulder and asked would you think about it more likely to consider it so i understand the sensitivities and it shouldn't be kind of an inside baseball supposed to mean who's interested in the the least one person in the case they would like to be the secretary then i would take that they would not oppose they would not object if they everybody and said you know in june and you know who was interested in being clear yes secretary who was interested in being nice to hear i mean i remember mike when you did the and those were the names that the nominating working group started with but it wasn't you know it wasn't as specific as you know who's interested in this that the other end and honestly over the summer somebody in june and it but certainly come september anybody who's willing to be nominated can be nominated to practice to ask how do most other committees in the town handle this i mean i feel kind of big gnostic as to what what's the best process and i don't the board as number one and i think you're having sort of like some political process and that's when you're suggesting that there's a political process going to having a political process of any kind for the leadership i think is somewhat problematic just from my perspective and one number two there are other towns where the chair of the warren committee or chair the finance committee actually sits in that position for decades in some cases arlington i thought not mistaken as an example of that i think it's actually fundamentally problematic that the head of the work committee or the head of the finance is actually in the job for a long time and so i think that what we don't want as a community is for that to happen and having a a process where there is a group of people that actually looks and says what's the right answer for this committee and does it behind the scenes in a public let's say in an open meeting fashion but does it sort of as a separate thing and comes this commit newsgroup as a slate i think is a useful check on having someone in the position for a long time so you don't have attention to do that but if you get away from and not the process we've had for decades that some of that could happen in the future i think that's something we should be wary of i think the other thing that ends up happening is there are people that are relatively new to the committee who don't believe that they are ready yet to serve as an officer and will not put themselves forward as options and i think what is are happening is that not a committee is number one made up or nominee working group is made up of people who've been on the committee for a long time but you know want to service officers and they know well enough to know that this person on the committee actually would be a fantastic officer in the future and should be essentially recruited to actually serve for example as vice chair next year and to be groomed to potentially be in the chair in the future and so it allows for conversation to happen behind the scenes and to say like ok i think you'd be terrific at doing this would you be willing to think about it and those conversations are better had one on one where i'm you know what's a bob is talking to someone say can you do it that's the way it's happened in the past and it works actually pretty well and i would encourage you all to think about that as history as you think about what to do going forward again i won't of what the job entails i support having a nominating committee and i support discussing the candidates if you want to have an open for form when the nominee to me comes they present why they're putting these people forward but i don't think that engaging document because it's actually a basti greater amount of work to come up with useful graphics to make it a kind of easy to read document makes it even more difficult to produce and it's it's it's a stretch to finish to get it completed with the document we have even now so i'm thinking actually of going in the opposite direction and simplifying the document a great deal because it's become an enormous project and i'm not sure that that the readership is there to justify it i'm not frankly that interested in talking about this right now at nine forty but i would suggest if we are going to talk about this in the future meeting that we might want to combine it with suggestions for and i think you said you were going to think about this which is the budget format itself so in the budget format itself were altered that would feed into maybe a comment not that specific comment with all due respect to my fellow town meeting members town meetings not a lot of heavy lifting and if town meeting members can invest again a bit or a couple hours it takes to read that report before voting on a hundred million dollars worth of spending your buyer in town shame on the tele meeting members we should not be trying to meet the lowest common denominator of commitment see but that's not reality you monday night somebody stood up and said well the reason we don't have a discussion on hundred ten million dollars budget is because we have it given to us to rubberstamp and it's a that boils it down to the key takeaways that is given by you know if you work or maybe someone else in your committee that would provide a high level overview of the report in every just again to try to be more useful and people then can say of time sort of repeating the descriptive informative summary kind of stuff that frankly you find of the town budget and do we need to do that and that i completely agree and that's what i was thinking of streamlining in a major