all the more inspired to continue to work to make this the best place on earth to live can we start with a roll call please an things that we have done in for a long time we will begin with an opening prayer led by our colleague council member birch from the third ward and then we'll have the pledge of allegiance we did ask that you would join us and stand if you would like before i begin our prayer tonight i do want to reflect on something that i've been thinking about this past saturday pope francis canonized two children since francisco in march because i receive the virgin mother's message worthily and their faithfulness despite their young age reminds us to pay special attention to the gifts capabilities holiness and goodness of the children our lives and tonight alike is to be guided by the light  and like this to pray for those afflicted by the wars and the conflicts that's persist today and for all those who suffer from violence and discrimination and i like to say the fatma prayer pray with me lord forgive us of our sins save us from the fires of hell and lead also to heaven especially those who are in most need of your divine mercy we pray amen i pl thank you brian next we'll be doing the consented gentle which is a list of items that our clerk and i will read for us and at the end of that leah will approve that with one motion unless you are interested in talking about one of those items that's why you came tonight if that's the case we will open it up after anna reads the list you may come forward give us your name and address and let us know which of the items that she read you would like taken off the consent agenda and then we will handle that item as it is presented on your in the sequence of the agenda that you have attended out in the back there we also do that with council members so am i could you please read the consent agenda item for b to approve the minutes of the april twenty sixth study session in may third two thousand and seven seventeen regular meeting item for c e to accept and file executed oaths of office from various boards and commissions twelve thirty one to refer claims filed against the city to the city's insurance carrier and city attorney for consideration twelve one point one two approved charges changes excuse me to approve changes to parking signage within the hope campus as noted the exit signs be replaced with no parking lot in zone signs and that no parking signs be installed where the college has painted curbs yellow item twelve one point two to approve the proposed budget for the sixteenth street trap avenue traffic signal project which is included in the city's five year street improvement program submitted by camming and road but in the amount of two hundred thirty one thousand four hundred eighty one dollars and ten cents twelve one point three two approve the two thousand and seventeen resurfacing project was black with black gold transport in the amount of five hundred eighty four thousand one hundred sixty two dollars and sixty five cents subject to approval as form by the city attorney with the funds to be allocated from the street improvement funds one point four to approve the proposed budget for the city's portion of the south shore drive reconstruction project in the amount of two million old orchard road to serve all our court development at no cost to the city or reduction in storm water capacity subject to approval asked to form by the city attorney twelve two point three to approve the appointment  harder as the city's representative on the washington square business improvement district board and at the reappointment of carry on to the washington square business improvement district board twelve three point one to approve the catering agreements for the two thousand and seventeen season at women island gardens with above and beyond banquet and katie dream and event beechwood in helping rose creative danny and the gilmore collection twelve point one two approve the b submitted by byron katz to restore in stabilize the south grey barn ep in rock to farm at a cost of eighty eight thousand six hundred eighty five to be paid from legacy funds in the municipal capital improvement  budgeted item twelve point two to approve the been submitted by midwest building maintenance i'll see to reseal the exterior concrete blocks of the transportation services building in the amount of twenty four thousand nine hundred  twenty dollars and that the municipal capital improvement fund budget be amended in the additional amount of five thousand nine hundred twenty item twelve eat four point three to approve an agreement with one hundred ten bank to as it eighty thirty eight c p calculation related to the two thousand and sixteen qualified energy content conservation bond at an annual cost of two thousand five hundred subject to approval as supported by the city attorney twelve east six point two two except in place on first reading an ordinance amendment to section thirteen dash eighteen of the city code which of watercraft control as proposed by the michigan department a mantra resources was the final adoption scheduled for june seventh two thousand and seventeen regular council meeting twelve six point three to approve the two thousand and seventeen restated howling area area water wastewater treatment facilities operation contract between out of a county he county howland city holland park lake town in fillmore townships as recommended by the ministry at a committee of the water wastewater treatment plant effect of july one two thousand and seventeen subject to approval asked a form by the city attorney twelve east six point four to schedule a study session on wednesday may thirty one for further review and discussion of items prior to possible action to be taken at a future regular council meeting twelve east six point five to approve the offer from mr brant mean heis in the amount of eighty thousand dollars for the purchase of the property at one thirty five albertine an authorized marin deputy clerk to sign all necessary paperwork on behalf of the city subject to approval asked  form by the city attorney and i you know i'm to twelve e's six point six to approve a boy who communications management l l c professional assistance for capital campaign in collateral material support and a fiscal year seventeen budget adjustment in the total amount of one thousand four hundred sixty eight which includes a ten percent in kind discount thank you so as i said that is the list of the consent to gender and we would plan approve all that as one group of items however you may have come to discuss one of those things that she read and if that's the case you would like to handle it in the sequence as it's presented in your agenda just come to the podium give us your name and address and tell us which item you would like taken off the consent agenda c nine i will move to council is there any item council would like to take off consent  like to remove six point four the conversation of potential study session on may thirty first as well as six point six design services for the civic center please campaign ok thank you anyone else want to take anything off consent special order of the day public hearings we have two of those will start with the financing of the uptown development with its brownfield request for first we need a staff report says right i thank you our finance director is head of our brand phil board and some of you served on the brownfield board so this is familiar to you we discussed it briefly upstairs we do have a visual of the area which is on central avenue and  there is a a large industrial building shown there with the red dot that is no longer being used and are grateful that a new property owner has come forward and would like to do a restoration including on improvements to the building and putting in the sidewalk and a number of other things eligible for brownfield tax reimbursement assistance this is something the city has done numerous times throughout the community and the results of this approach have been very self evident and it's now the opportunity for this area to be improved as well so the applicant is here tonight should you like to have additional information presented and otherwise  the brownfield report i'm going to flip to it for a second here is some other photos that i think are applicant would like to cover in more detail but the brownfield report in summary has and the usual preparation to plan materials so with that this afternoon for the public airing and any questions of our developer ok thank you ryan well open for public comment so the developer would like to say something or someone else in the audience about this proposal am dan chirps drama member of uptown development and the owner of the property just recapping again there's an existing industrial building there we're taking a look at developing into residential apartments  approximate thirteen apartments two bedroom and one bedroom apartments the items that we're looking after reimbursement from brownfield is broken probably three major categories one being led and abatement there's a lot of demolition that will be done about two thirds of the existing building will be torn down and then the other category would be new infrastructure anything that we do within the road right away which includes putting in snow melt sidewalks would be put in the paper sidewalks new landscaping in the green space between the sidewalk and the curb some curb replacement and also some building of on site water retention great thank you anyone else from the audience care to speak about this project and we'll close the public hearing open for council affect childhood development so that's money well spent to get around that stuff so that's it thank you david yeah uptown development is that what you plan on calling it the project uptown eight for the coops incorporated we start with a report for that brian please i thank you mayor members of the city council i'm just going to flash some of the slides that we didn't see upstairs for the last item that i just realized  loaded mysteriously and rack asli so all right so those are those now i'd like to talk about that went too far a pretty large new development larger than some anyway on a six point three acre parcel and to build a fifty thousand two hundred square foot manufacturing facility to hire sixty additional full time employees and this is brought to us by coops incorporated and  now your opportunity to receive any additional information from the coops if you would like to at the conclusion of a public hearing which is required to recommend the city council adopt the tach resolution to approve a twelve year a one ninety eight industrial facilities tax abatement for coops located one hundred five productions court and this is as you know something that you do with regularity and has produced a lot of positive outcomes throughout the decades thank you ryan so since this is a public hearing we'll open for public comment would anyone care to speak to this development maybe developer would like to start  live in the city actually the project is in ward five i live in ward four and every time i come to city hall anak specially is always so helpful if it is with a passport or talking to something  about building code or something like that so i just always appreciate that and probably part of the community and then secondly like think council for yet another successful tool of time i know my family and others in the community have always enjoyed that who are thankful for that was successful so it's a great privilege to live in the city i feel you know we have great recreation we have a great school systems and it's just a great part to be part of the city so and then lastly thank you for the consideration for this tax abatement for cope sank a couple of things when i interview a lot of candidates we are an employee owned company so i take great pride in interviewing candidates because where we're interviewing potential owners and a couple of the things i always a common question is hey what do you really enjoy about your job so it's pretty easy for me two things one i'm a techie guy so i love i love working with high tech machines i love working with computers and different things like that but then secondly for me it's people and that's that's really what this tax abatement is about and now the city manager mentioned you know adding sixty new jobs and this is phase  of hopefully three phases for this site where we can be adding more manufacturing space and more office space where we can bring technician level jobs to the area but also engineering level jobs and also other support to ask you a couple of questions if i may about the potential employee hire you're projecting to hire sixty two people correct  it's typical that i ask these questions when the companies common ask for the source of a basements because it's a tradeoff between potential revenue that the city could be gathering as opposed over  so the question is when we hit return right could you generally be to what the average salary range the sixty new jobs would fall share so for there's quite a range you know if you talk to a for us you know a machinist for instance you know you can have somebody that's right out of the school center come work for us you know and that you know wages you know thirteen fourteen fifteen dollars an hour and then if you take that all the way to you know a machinist set it for a technician hours an hour even north of that depending upon the skill set and then you took you take a look for engineers you know if we hire a lot you know from hope college grand valley calvin just a lot of local schools you know of jobs coming out of engineering school you know between fifty and sixty thousand and then you know as they're develop some more skill sets you know they're all seventy five thousand or eighty thousand dollars a year depending if you're  position even could be higher than that so really the the level of jobs we're bringing to the area are really substantial and then not only are we bringing jobs you know those sixty jobs that we have a lot of  partner organizations that we work with within the city as well if it's i i t infrastructure or if it's sales coaching coaching or different aspects like that that really add a lot of value from my perspective to the i got into the habit of asking this question because it's important i think for citizens to understand that you know even though we're giving up as a city of potential revenue and you would never want to hire me as a as our numbers guy  seriously but over that put over that same twelve year period where you're taking sixty jobs you know given what i would assume some of the salary ranges are we're  much of it locally but nonetheless it's important for folks to realize just how it ha impactful that is so you know we're giving up money but the return is is huge and i want  thank you and affirm your company for having a mindset first of all of recognizing the need for people to be able to make a decent living but also your commitment to your co owners i guess  i thank you for that information and to have another a fast growing advanced manufacturing provider i follow these markets fairly closely and this is the future of how we build the things and so we have things building things and we have smarter people required to build the things that are building the things that we use every day  it's fantastic that potentially those would be manufactured here and in that workforce would stay here in holland thank you for that in that they are and they are an op is a very strong commitment to the community there are a lot of advantages to that structure of business not only for yourself but also to the employees who are are your co owners so thank you for that and really thrilled to have you in town thank you know it's it's great to be here and i'll just open up the council if anybody i think in that packet i put my card if anybody would ever like a tour of what we do have an open door give me a call and let set something up so we're pretty excited what we what we do questions it is where would we be without people that are willing to give to the community to provide jobs to be entrepreneurial to take the risk to invest in the people in your business and that's one of the best ways to fight our affordable housing problem is to face pay people a way that they can have the dignity of owning their own home being a part of the community to give back as well so we're just so grateful and i also don't want us to take all the credit for too little time we had a great time too but we have to look time committee that really runs all of that and we support them in this huge effort and so we're very grateful for all the community effort that we have to enjoy in holland and we are thrilled with your plans to expand this much and then two more levels after that time well that's great thank you so much yes so i guess we will call for the vote then i'm sorry we do need a motion need emotional with group support moved by white men supported by byrd now will call for the vote thank you peter's birch yes  now we are coming to public comment this is the time when you are welcome to come to the podium and again give this era name and address and you may speak to whatever topic you would like just not something that's going to be handled later in this meeting so you have five minutes green light means go yellow light means you have one more minute and red light means the five minutes are up so please come forward if you'd have something to speak talk about speaking of tulip time i should be on vacation for one hour of executive director of tool time and i just wanted to say thank you to the city and everything that you have done to help support our efforts and a fabulous festival this year the troops hung on they don't look great today but wow we got through saturday sunday and it was phenomenal when i give you a few highlights of the week after only two days to figure out what those details are we had two hundred forty four trips on the trolley tours we sold out every day one day we sold out in fifteen minutes and those were started at nine in the morning and most typically ran till five at night so it's been fabulous we switched a couple years ago to a hop on hop off if you will and you could stop at windmill island gardens at the museum and the kapan house for about three quarters of the day and then the other end of the day it was just  a one hour tour around town but it was a great way to get people out and about understand the lay of the land and get to some of the attractions we're really excited about that we had over thirty eight hundred runners and our five and ten k run the first saturday when we kicked off our biggest ever so i don't know if any of you ran but it was a great day the weather was awesome so thank you we had a new location for a dutch market plats with the civic center being under construction which were very excited about it being done we did need to move the dutch market plats and we went to the comments of evergreen on state street honestly quite concerned about it being out of town and not walkable distance and how is this really going to go it went fabulously the venue was great the vendors who sell in that market said they had at least as good if not a better year than when they have been at the civic center so that was a really positive thing for us we exceeded our budgeted revenue of the carnival by fifty five thousand dollars which was off some of the carnival skeer back is the vendor and they're just great they're out of fun fell and a really great operation to work with  very you know i just can't speak well enough about what they do and how they provide a really safe environment for all the kids and families that were there they called me sunday and said can we stay open a little longer because the place was packed with families and sunday was such a great day so they were open and additional hour which is awesome parades record attendance we think you can't count all the people on the parade route but you all were in the parade as well and how many times have you seen the parade route full all the way to holland high school  it's been a long time since i've seen that the entire way and they were sixty eight deep on both sides of the road all the way down that didn't come out for downtown which you could hardly walk between all the people in the stores so the parades were very well attended and i wish there was a way that we could figure out how many people and it is just near impossible because you can't really count people coming to a free event so that was really fabulous vince gill was sold out to give a pair of wooden shoes he left he didn't know what to do with them he didn't know why on earth he would need a pair and he couldn't believe he had were eight pairs of socks but he has a pair customized wooden shoes i think the most and thing that was most impressed impressive to us in general was the amount of media coverage we had we have a partnership with multiple outlets you know radio paper as well as t v and all the local channels covered us really consistently which was great and when we got a call from c lester holt news and said we want to do a story on you and can we come on tuesday course we said yes and we were thrilled with that and here is the minute we have clip after four hours of filming nancy how many times has this video been shared from your facebook page as of tonight three hundred seventy thousand views and six point two rows and shares just in those five days and five days talk to me whatever right like just come and see what we have to do we're it's really cool and they used a lot of footage from kevin at least group here from the city so it was great so we don't have a video susan mentioned something about the comments of one of the crew when they were putting things back to leave saying that this whole experience exceeded her wildest expectations that it was such an amazing talent and just really had no idea what they were coming to they had no idea they were doing some research on the local festivals and said hal let's go to holland and it was kind of laid back we're going to go for a day and they're like we could've stayed here all week long and these little kids were in the park i don't know who they were but the system producer saw them running around went over and got all the releases and those were all kids that just happened to be and centennial park on tuesday morning so it was really great was a lot of fun so we had a great week we're starting to plan next year as well as the ninetieth which is in two years from now if you have any great ideas i'm all ears for things to do and we are going to have a really great couple of years coming up  here i first of all having been a transplant here and having been you know too many of these but not born and raised here this was by far the best attended of the past fifteen years that i've been a resident we did have the advantage of weather but i think there is quite a bit to be said on the leadership from you and the board to really look at this event  to invite as many new ideas into the event and allow people to figure out a way to make this their own the eevee shoes we wouldn't moved off and those my staff and i and and they were just parade that n b c piece your comment about them coming here and not understanding what this is it's weird and it's it's great and it's beautiful and  it is a small little slice of kind of that disney ask idea that a community could be and it's it's just fun and congratulations to you and the team and i think it's  it's it's the culmination of a lot of hard work that you've done the last couple years so thank you regulations thank you yeah it's a it's been a lot of work behind and there's so many things i look back and go who knew i had no idea right after four or five years of some significant financial losses we've finished for on a really positive upswing i'm pretty confident this year is going to be another one till have five in the books of a positive financial status alert and we're able to begin to reinvest in the community or in the festival and it's really community festival it's not mine it's not anyone else's it's the and without partners like e envy and many many other businesses one hundred seventy five sponsors who all have a piece of ownership in it it wouldn't be what it is today in eight hundred volunteers and i could go on and on but it's really a great thing and that's the communities think that's what it's all about any other comments from council it is an amazing festival that most other places don't have and never could have and to have done that for eighty eight years is amazing and we just are so excited for the level of success this year and book was your was your first year so we're trying to weatherproof it so things you know you don't have a bad financial year if you don't have to lips well in most places have what they call it to a festival but it's just whenever the tulips come up people come and take a picture and that's how deep their festival is so to actually block out ten days and in faith that all up and plan things before and after and throughout the year we are we are very excited for all that you have done and all that your board has taken and it's it is a wonderful treasure that brings this community together really brings the region together in coordinating our public safety work and our volunteers and all the different schools to have kids perform together on tuesday night it really helps them step outside of their own school and meet other students with other similar interests and all of those things we've together a stronger community in the long run and things we don't even know how how valuable they are so and we do really have an opportunity to showcase what we have been given as a community when people come here and we don't i don't think the numbers are going to go down next year after all this publicity and so i'm hoping that as we talk here that anyone watching or seeing this later as who has ever thought wow i wonder what it's like to be a part of the tulip time group that produces all of this festival for the world  that they could give you a call and maybe get in the queue to be a volunteer throughout this year and maybe for next festival what would they do when it's given again give us a call we put all those opportunities up on line starting the first of march because it's a little hard to recruit people for next may but we also have part of the province's our fall of benton conjunction with the community plan team so we have one more event yet this year and people can volunteer to help with that as well great and last there's always things going on we had heard the pots that get planted the city is so gracious to help plant a thousand positives that are on the floats and that all of our venues and we dumped the everything out of the pots and ended my airbags and we did a thousand possibly in three hours and sold them off so right people want to take a little piece of history yes well we hope you can get some good night's sleep thank you for coming and thank you appreciate all you've done and please tell us the book club board members as well you have a couple representatives here thank you for all your hard work and creativity and dedication thank you are there any other comments from the audience for public comment thank you will close that section then move on to this city clerk microbrew license and these small winemaker request you going to talk about that requirement from the liquor control commission for and resolution to be adopted by council for this consideration thank you do we have any discussion or motion fairplay community riches director is here who has as worked on this i'll give you a short overview and any additional thoughts that you might want to add perhaps at the end but you do have a report and this report is the product of whether there could be something else done there it's now presently use for parking so we did receive a report from a b c s moto the downtown development interim director at that time that seemed to signify that this was not out of line with the one point two five million and it came under the five thousand dollars so a slate of credit is going to be going back to burton katzman nevertheless tonight's presentation was to follow up on the six month period there are six items that were noted back in october when this was approved that the developer would provide whether tonight or another time i'm not sure but a narrative about the proposal if they'd like to proceed a proposed parking plan a preliminary development plan pro forma and some others i want to make sure that everyone listening in council knows that we really do not know what you're going to receive tonight we have never see the any any proposal today so the whole community  the entire city staff who's here is seeing it for the first time as a city council and we will accept whatever direction obviously you'd like to see to go with once when she i have an opportunity to see what their thinking  s with that i'll just do not believe i missed anything so i think this is probably an opportunity to recognize mr john pavoni who's here representing burton katzman oh well he proceeds up i do want to say there the there are details about this understanding and the city is council is under no obligation to proceed or proceed according to what's been suggested there's plenty of opportunities for discussion  well as members of the audience and all stakeholders phony from burton katzman and what i'm here to do is provide you an update of what we've accomplished over the last six months and potential next steps if you allow us to continue our analysis of the analysis of last seven c and seventh street is what we analyze we first approach to thinking about october of last year with some renderings and some concepts for a mixed use development on this particular property and we we had we went through four different meetings i believe with different stakeholder groups within the city to understand their concerns about what we had originally proposed for the property were provided summaries of all those meeting minutes by city staff and we took all of the concerns under advisement and came up with what we feel is a design that incorporates most of the concern of everybody who was part of those discussions or in share those with you tonight and talk about where we're currently at and some of the things that we're currently doing and plan to continue doing towards making this project a potential reality assuming you continue to work contractor corp partners is a sister company of burton katzman which provides real estate services leasing property management brokerage lord ex arjun is architect out of atlanta they have a six satellite a long one hundred and twelve year tradition we're most notably known in the measure detroit area in addition building million square feet of of commercial space and industrial space and tens of thousands of homes we develop google building in downtown an arbor which is a excuse me downtown birmingham which is a landmark property and this is sort of the streetscape recently and we partnered with bob gibbs who was planning consultant to road and i seventy five and we're brought in to basically put a budget on it what you see on the right here is the construction budget and i actually prepared all those numbers and there was about one hundred twenty spread sheets that back up this particular data here it's eight just to give you a high level of that it's a twelve hundred unit development one hundred twenty acres with almost two million square feet of construction of all different types stick built concrete and steel high rises valued at about three hundred fifty seven million there was a couple other plants actually that they did two and one exceeded the one point two billion dollars and we priced that out too and you know this is sort of a public private partnership of sorts similar to what we're proposing here on a much smaller scale and how and where the city funds a certain amount of infrastructure in this particular proposal and they recoup most of that back through land sales and are able to fund some other  scouts and this is a little personal background information on him he's married a graduate of the class of one nine hundred fifty seven holland christian high school and i'm curious if anybody knows him here they probably do as well as calvin college wayne state university law hundred eighty he was involved in site selection development strategy development planning financial feasibility studies entitlement tenets selection and mix and was indirectly responsible for the construction sixty five million square feet of space bob was essentially the man who was able to analyze the demographic data and tell roberts and director robert tom and where to build mega malls and he was responsible for site selection for twenty two of the largest mall america he was also involved in the acquisition of the irvine ranch which involved ninety three thousand acres of land it was a three way partnership between henry ford over top man and donald brand acquisition price was three hundred thirty seven million dollars and was developed and ten million dollars in development he still retained as an adviser on that particular project but most notably and probably most pertinent to what we're doing here tonight back in with that in concert with that prince and in the early in the mid eighty's so what we've done we feel we're about seventy percent complete today and coming up with not only a design we've got what we feel is a decent design but solving getting understanding what the record needs to be and how to get the right to where we wanted to be in order to build a product that really is marketed towards the same people that the gentleman earlier here is is intending to hire you know we've got a budget for iraq for construction it's one of things we've already accomplished and the budget numbers came back that we have to charge you know two dollars per square foot per month plus to pay for the construction costs and it's just out of the reach of the average employee at a small company that's entering the hauen market it just as i mean we if we want to cater to the rich and a fluid i've got a project right now we can build there and cater to them but that's not what we originally came to town to do and i really want to be able to hit we do katzman iraq reconstruction hit a target income level that makes it affordable for somebody who's gainfully employed and intends to stay in the housing market and the rents not necessarily subsidize it's architecturally complimentary to adjacent buildings and character mass and scale mass and scale and size was sort of came up many times and when we were originally showed some of our designs were very large and sort of massive and didn't  did scale them appropriately and we don't have the stuff that's never and everything we have it created engineer drawings that event submitted to the planning commission we can do that we feel that we could do that very in a very similar nature to what we show on the conceptual that we have it's all sort of jump into it here this is the fourth design i call design for the property and we price we had record price of all the prior ones leading up to this it's a combination of two here and four levels on gray around the back of the structure that's why would we refer to as a three to three and four story residential structure and there's a lot of detail here i'm not necessarily going to go through it all unless you'd like me to but this project does include amenities under the podium such as a leasing fitness and club room and a business center but many of those amenities i showed in the earlier pictures and presentations that we gave you know the type of product that's exciting that people want to be a part of it sort of an experience  living experience this is a connector potential pedestrian connector that we show here we've got a healthy set back from the neighboring property this could be a paved path easily  there and again this is a pony this is the pedestrian pathway on the other side the building between the hotel and the and the structure this is looking south west and sort of see the deck expose their week there could be a very nice treatment put on this it doesn't necessarily have to look like horizontal lines i guess you can say and here we put a skin on it and this is we've gone through many different skin and this is sort of a  combination of red and brown bread very traditional blends in with the different types of construction better that are on seventh street and then this is looking southwest you can see that the scale has really been toned down before we had a parking deck in the middle you couldn't see it one of the concerns was well how will people know that there's parking available there if it's hidden in the in the the entire length which would reduce the number of units if we wanted to make them up we could go a little bit higher potentially we feel that this is the right scale for this building within the context of the city and then this is the rock for construction budget and really the most important numbers to look at here is it's about one hundred seventy dollars per square foot to build this type of facility here and that doesn't include any architectural engineering civil fees financing costs which are probably going to add about twenty dollars per square foot to this brings it up to about one hundred eighty nine dollars per square foot you need a rat well in excess of two dollars per square foot per month to pay for that you know so and  doesn't include the parking deck so two thousand square foot no parking cost covered and the parking guess can run about ten million dollars potentially last i mean i think this numbers a little heavy but once you put in the soft cost which rockford doesn't typically include there there's just a hard construction cost estimate or it could very well be up to twenty six thousand dollars per space so we're asking for sixty days of complete what we're working out the our next steps are to review the soon to be completed residential retail market study from the scout company based upon what our what is in those studies will prepare retail residential performance and pro and this really leads right into what the gentleman says was the present copy those here earlier today we intend as a way to potentially close the gap or take on certainly out of this project pursue master leases from local employers interested in accommodating their current and future employees and that's extremely important and i'll leave tell you about one of the initiatives i'm working  katzman just did a two hundred million dollar equity raise in order to acquire stabilized industrial properties around southeast michigan and we are currently purchasing four buildings totaling over four hundred thousand square feet in the grand rapids area industrial properties and i actually just met with the owner on a four hundred eighteen thousand square foot building today these are buildings that we're producing on a sale leaseback basis meaning i negotiate and i'm i'm making the calls i contacting every large kaiser fifty thousand square feet with then kent county in ottawa county and some others to inquire about whether they'll sell their facility to take that capital reinvested in their business so i'm talking to presidents of companies  as every day and i'm promoting holland the concept being that in order to reach attract and retain the best employees they've really got to provide them the housing opportunities that they seek which is right in line with what this gentleman said here today he didn't talk much about housing but i think it's important to him and i'm going to reach out to him i took took down his name and until now because he didn't have the building he wasn't sizable enough building he wasn't on my radar but he is  now and then based upon whether we can land some master leases and create our performers and that makes sense and potentially we're going to include the patient equity as well as the  in order to make her a part of our partners more affordable we intend to propose a potential deal to the city to develop the property or accept this opportunity and again we're all were at risk one hundred percent on our own in pursuit of this venture i still believe in it although the costs are high like i said we could probably do a deal at market but at a higher market than we want to hit a higher market and well anybody can support who works at the smaller companies we just need time to solve the problems you know that it's it's a challenge and i believe that scott's going to help us get there because he's sort of he has a magic he can work some magic with the numbers and i believe and he's we've talked about his strategy and has a lot to do with the job creation income levels current rent levels obviously in construction costs and and through all that there's there's some way that we can figure out how to how to get this done so i'm still hopeful i mean hope hope is not a strategy but we have strategies and we're going to continue to try our best to get there so on kindly asking that you give us a little bit more time we're technically out of contract i mean there was a document that was drafted and executed drafted by your counsel and executed by us and that time has lapsed we understand that you know we really don't have to have any land control per se even though it wasn't planned control in the first place but we're comfortable be in this in this position because we're just working honestly towards a goal that i think we all share to see if there is a way to deliver a unique and  nonexistent type of housing to the holland market and i'm a great piece of property and increase parking within the downtown district shopping  my question i guess is are is everything contingent on this property or is it this property or nothing well it's not at all and bob scout he's you know we really just crossed paths with him recently and i had hoped that he was going to be here tonight and i'm sorry that i didn't mention that he had planned on being here we had planned on having the analysis done by now but he ran and some ran into some complications and he's going to be having surgery next wednesday and i've been praying for him that he's it's a successful surgery and he's been actually mentoring me a lot and spent a lot of time with me lately and trying to share you know many of the most important things that he's learned in his life of real estate consulting and he's providing me with what i consider some of his most guarded secrets i guess and when it comes to that analysis which i really appreciate we his plan originally with at prince was built upon a grand vision of amassing as much property as possible primarily along an extreme for eventual divel much of that land has not been developed as everybody knows and you know there's sort of a reason for that you know the numbers don't add up as of yet properly and you know for that to get constructed quickly he feels and he's contributing much of his time and effort and energies pro bono to this latest attempt to understand the market in order to close the loop i guess and it's sort of his you know  grand plan coming together i guess you can say and where i'm going with this is the analysis extends beyond this property and me and it's not all or none with this particular property this may lead us to developing a strategy for the vacant sites and eight that are on for others and i shared with him some of it as well as some of the nine and i bring that up because i shared with him some of my early concepts for developing the civic center site as a large resin retail project you know that's a it was just a concept that i threw out there at one point in time and i did some designs work and you know in his infinite wisdom as a retail consultant strategist he said john i'll never work will never work he says because there's a great change between pine and river and people won't walk down a great change of a certain incline over a certain number of feet to get to another shopping district scott said ok bob you're the bus he says but they will shop on seven tonight because it's within x number of feet in one direction or the other so what's interesting he says so that's where we need to focus and i'll do the retail market study i'll do a marketing mix i'll let you know when and when he gets started on the first marketing mix which is basically the tenant makes for the down town of howland he said there was four bait shops in downtown he says it wasn't until you were able to get the bait shops out here that you were able to turn the corner become a different sort of downtown so i'm interested in seeing what he comes up with because i think it's going to lead to opportunities develops out of night as well as the start to be so long winded but that's where i think this is i don't know and i think that's that was my i guess the answer my question is that it is if this next steps are can focus solely on this one property or it's looking at that market that was the the gist of it and i guess many i can't speak for all of us around the the dice here but they were all very curious and interested into what what what will look like moving forward so yeah i guess very keen on getting that as quickly as possible yeah and i wish i had a completed deal structure for you i just don't have a yet and i'm patiently waiting for bob's completed studies so that we can develop one i wish we could do it faster and i wish he wouldn't of fallen ill he's having a valve replaced in his heart next wednesday like open heart surgery so it's pretty big deal thank you any other questions or comments for john mike just for clarification john with your point going around the horn on if you're asking for an extension of the for another sixty days yeah i think that's very say yes thank you invest into this particular project and purchase x number of units for their employees and with that they would hopefully be able to to their employees at a decent rate fordable rate to to get this thing off the ground that's exactly true it takes a lot of the uncertainty out of the investment from our side and it also provides them a carrot if you will to their employees or potential employees that we have somewhere that you can live it's a lifestyle that you can you know start living today if you come on board you know it's part of the recruitment strategy and if we can't land any master leases for many employees that's not to say we wouldn't move forward with the development if we can make the numbers stand on their own but that's one way to do that we intend on making it well your investment thus far my question really boils down to process for us particularly in the moment in my almost eight years this is the first time we've kind of had this type of moment where it's like  of curious i'm intrigued by what you describe there in terms of you know that ploy or engagement makes me think you think like sure bandage a few years ago i did something similar on a micro scale terms of just four years short term housing or things like that so it's not too far out of the possibility and as our economy recovers it seems to make sense what you're talking practice tonight but you know just from observation perspective my impression is this council has a pretty full docket over the next sixty days i couldn't possibly see us taking up or entertain offers relative to this property other than what we've seen from you at this point i'm a little nervous about getting back estimation this council got a lot of work in front of us over the next couple of months we just discussed that in our study session tonight just one where we can slot things in taken on a fifth wednesday this month etc so my own two cents would be i dreamily interested in seeing the finished product in what you come up with in terms of market study i think i probably haven't talked into an extension on or that you know taking up another agreement largely because information nothing else why you stand that but john was honest with us and said he's kind of looking for an extension that's not part of the recommendation if we want to overrule the recommendation i mean we have the right to do that but  procedurally it would have to be a motion ron i'm sorry correct me if i'm wrong but it would have to be a motion to that effect but all all we're being asked to do is except this for information so that we can in fact digest something that's i'll try to figure out its feasibility and i appreciate your honesty in sharing that with us i guess i'm at a point to that you know i know you would like your company would like  the security of knowing that you have no other shoe window of opportunity here free of any other interference by some other company or group that might be interesting i'm not sure that's necessary for the reasons that todd stated  we've got a lot of stuff to do it would take us sixty days just to figure out whether we want to see yes or no given the stuff that we have an agenda i think it's worth i think there's so much here that worth looking at and considering i'm not convinced yet that this is the place or for the project but it's you know as i say it's intriguing enough to bear  holland and bringing some fresh ideas it's been said that you spawned a bit of a process for us saying well this could happen how prepared are we for this to happen and we need to think about this stand in good faith i think we said well this guy came in in good faith and said let's give him a shot at this thing i heard a couple things one is if not this by other spots are possible as we work down the road that it may not be on that particular parking lot that's a pretty and that has some value as a parking given but it could be somewhere else some some notion of what we've got here jeff air that  is fair that's true i also heard this mr shouts name and the way you describe him is almost like he's kind of a deal changer he's almost like bringing a whole nother level of asset and consideration and professionalism to what we're trying to do here he absolutely is but can i assume then that mr show is well connected are getting connected to the to the tail of a group of people that we've had around the table for the last twenty years and have kind of laid these framework thinking and visions for downtown that i think are still very valid but there's always room for for a fresh perspective and i think you bring that and i'm  really i'm grateful for that but i want to make sure that i'm a little i'm a little uncomfortable like timelines here because there's i feel like there's a tinder on the there's a little tinder going on here in the fire it's starting to smolder and between this mr shoutin the great people we already have thinking through our downtown stuff and some of the concepts that you can bring in some of the things i think we need in our downtown these kinds of things and the spaces that parking lot so i don't see any formal need to do that but i i'm encouraged by what we have here and i would encourage us to get all the players in the room because it sounds like we've got a good we've got a lot of good material here to build fire and you know that the sixty days that technically i can live without the extension i'm not so much worried about that the sixty days is my estimate of when we're going to be done with our analysis and you know the city reserve the right to say yes or no to what we came forward with or put it out to our appear or anything if we didn't really have any control in the first place per se we just had the your engagement and your blessing to speak with the stakeholders in the city which you allowed us to do and we appreciate that and we're going to continue to do what we've been doing in hopes that we can potentially develop this site and know win win situation or another site around the city and i think bob scout's plan is going to really point to the the solution for the downtown seventh eighth and ninth the mix of tenants who we need to bring to the city and i say we as if i'm one of you now because i really do believe that there is there is a long range plan that bob can help craft and he's going to do so  tonight so i will be filling in as will find instructor vitally for questions what the purpose of tonight's review is to consider beds we have one dead it's a very good bit however for restoration of the great barn shown on the photo here this is in keeping with some of the multi year restoration efforts that focused initially on the bent altie farmhouse and now is focusing on some of the surrounding areas the barn for example this barn is in danger of collapsing and it is not known when but it does appear to be deteriorating the next libel show that on the inside so what you have before you is a scope of services that was produced and in concert with others who are knowledgeable about restoration of barns and that's cup services includes basically leveling the not leveling removing but making square the actual terminology is in the report the structure replacing the missing boards replacing the roof and otherwise making sure the foundation is solid and some of the  so here's the inside of the structure and you can see some of the deterioration and if without effort there certainly won't be much to look at the future so they say council considered this a year ago thousand six hundred eighty five dollars for a subtotal of one hundred twenty one thousand which is less than the total of ailill for a savings of two thousand six hundred seventy dollars upstairs we talked about the long term future  involving the facilities it is unlike when the island it is doesn't have a business plan associated with the revenue creation that is need to be done and that is something that i hope that we will be able to get to within the next year so it would be a venue for a variety of that's we know that weddings are of interest to multiple parties but we don't have the facilities at this time so there is a facility that will county runs in the northern part of the county which is very similar and which has been very popular for those events and we believe that the market exists that being said the recommendation tonight is for you to believe except that peer quickly i did remove this and i we talked about this quite a bit up stairs and i just wanted to bring it up down here because i mean i guess i don't know what goes into  eighty eight thousand is it seems like a lot for something that we're not we're just getting it into a position where it's not falling down they will still have a dirt floor will still have the holes  under certain circumstances so that i just wanted to make make clear on that i guess so yeah thank you brain any other comments that has an awful lot of potential and i'm trying to think how many times in the last ten years that i've been sitting here that we've talked about or thought about or what's the art of the possible with a roll to a farm and  i'm a historic i believe in preserving our past i can spend this money to solidify this barn to get it to a point where it won't deteriorate much further but the next step is what are we going to do that bought it we're going to spend that money to me that implies that we're going to do something else to it and i can see a barn perched why they built those barns right next to each other like that seems weird to me but i'm at the role to farm and i would i the sooner we can i know there's seems to be a lot on our plate but i think we need to have some kind of a broader vision for what could happen or what are we going to do or when it's done what does it look like and that would just make me we've talked about it i think it makes me feel better if you're going to get that in our somehow on our list of things to talk about in the near future because it just seems like it's an under all legitimate uses of one hundred sixty acres for the community to use and then appreciate that property but it feels like there's more there i'm i don't know what it is but i think we need to over the next few years so for sure we have to work hard  try to figure out what what the next step is there and we're going to do it we're going to invest in it let's make sure we've got a path we go down we know we're doing thank you jay mike well just to expand a little bit of what jay said basically with one hundred sixty degrees you get eighty acres that are store gayety years that are recreational and that's kind of the way it's come out and you've got part of that that's kind of a mix use if you will between the what's happening on  graphic nature center and the maple and the different things that go up there through the season and that's one of the ideas for the barns years those are classrooms i've been through three or four different iterations of what this could look like and when joel if you were was here in your own code as yet the vision the basic vision has not changed the intricate working parts have the the vision always has been there to make this a classroom learning experience potentially a revenue scuse me a revenue enhancing type of venue for the south i'm sorry for the north parchin portion of this  property and i'm just afraid and i understand we're my colleagues are coming with this money could be spent elsewhere but i don't know if i've heard it once i've heard a hundred times people really upset that we let the the even royalty original home on fairbanks avenue go that we let the western two works get to such disrepair that we couldn't do anything but take it down this is our property we owe it to somebody set it up stairs we owe it to our generations that we're going to hand this off to to make sure that they have something to look at in that just some pictures on a wall that's of this used to be here  if we don't help shore it up now we're going to have a pile of probably some pretty expensive barnwood some sheet metal and some pretty need more intended bea that are inside there so to me this is a small investment in the future from the past quincy i didn't know for sure which way i leaned on this but i think about the off film that we just donated to think about to look time the beginning of that and putting that it's only i will say only but the amount of money that we're putting into this and being able to connect the past to the present i i think it's a good  to be able to have something physical other than what mike said pictures and i think there's a lot more that goes into it at that point so i support this last summer's shot i took this road trip home and it sort of brought it took us through part of the knee and i think it was there's a section somewhere in indiana that he is known for covered bridges you probably know where it is  but so we said well let's go try to find some we actually did have a couple of them down one that was actually quite useful because it was out of the country somewhere in a gravel road and you couldn't get across whe all this bridge was very functional another one we found was because you almost have to go out of your way to find this bridge and about three hundred feet away it was a brand new nice concrete bridge you know it was really  functional and yet looking at the it was there was really grateful that someone had taken the time and the effort to preserve these bridges because you know the future is arriving so quickly that  it's easy to lose a connection with the past and even when those connections are fleeting you have maybe a great distance between  it's nice to have those touchstones with all of their history and you know this is coming from a guy who's you know i'm not a bleeding heart kind of let's say of the past to a huge degree it's good to put effort into preserving certain things are made to suffer pass and i and i set up stairs by just us by those who follow after us so when they go to this couple of acres of that royalty farm when they see the house they hear the story of that they can look at the bar and they hear the story of that i don't know if there's anybody getting going to get married in this thing or not ever but it will serve a purpose we can bring kids in there and tell them about what that takes money to keep things up and the reason probably we're spending this amount of money now is because it's been deferred for so many years that we're at this point now so i think it's worth the investment well as we all know it's hard to argue against history in this diocese but as i said i said upstairs you know the the big challenge for me is you know nearly ninety thousand dollars rassmann here versus  you know the countless investments that we've been talking about that are creeping up on us because of those deferred maintenance positions we've had over the past few years i promise this will be the highest priced foundation pirtle any on foot that this city ever does and i just cannot convince myself that right now that this is the the best investment for us again everybody makes great arguments about our history  our past at the same time to a guy i know there has been have been countless discussions on the vision for what could happen at band royalty farm and i know  there's a great number of things that happen there already i don't know that this changes that game that much or that future plan nor would i be convinced that this is the first investment that we make in that larger plan so unfortunately for me tonight i'm a no vote on this  well it is amazing that this hundred sixty acres is there free and clear like it used to be that is a treasure most communities don't that that house and that environment stayed in the same family that won and then another couple live there and it eventually actually came to the city council to decide whether or not we wanted to have that entire city block to remember our founders and the council at that time chose to accept that opportunity and that is that is a heritage and a level of appreciation for our founders that many places can't enjoy and i do share the feelings that mike has mentioned about people being ups about having lost the original van roll to a home and other things that seem like you don't appreciate what came before when they had the civil war muster this past year i think they said there were about five hundred eighth graders that got off the bus thing haha what are we doing here and by the end of their experience have enrolled the farm they were all high five ing the people clad as generals from the civil war and bounced back onto the bus excited about their heritage and inspired by the history of our ancestors fighting in the civil war and standing for principles that weren't really affecting michigan at the time i think i think that that is a worthwhile investment there's only so much you can do with an i pad only so many real life experiences you can have watching a flat film but when you come to a place where there are real buildings and this is expressed to you in people in costume and you get into the flavor of that era that is an experience that's a moment that you're going to remember for years you may bring your own children back twenty years later to say i learned about ben venter altie and what he did in fighting for the civil war and he was son of the founder of this area this is a worthwhile thing we also bring all kinds of children out there to learn about nature now they're crammed into a house that's not really set up for children or for learning there's taxidermy all over the shelves where they should be a place where we show the where then royalty home instead we should have something like a barn where we can bring the children they can sit in a classroom situation and it can be used with dignity to teach about nature and about history it is not an amazing treasure to have this and i do understand that we have a lot of things we have to pay for and of a lot of needs but we have deferred the maintenance of an royalties barnow for one hundred fifty years i don't know when it's going to get on the list and it could soon blow over and i have felt the terror of losing these barns ever since i got on council and i was part of the decision to designate those thirty acres as historic because i believe in the power of physical experiences in order to make history real and it's not just a subject to study it's a way of telling today the people today that we are not just here because of our own world our own will our own achievement we are here and join what we have today because of many who have sacrificed before us we don't take this for granted and if we say it doesn't matter what happens to this site doesn't matter whether we preserve what we have and has been entrusted to us what are we saying to the children is it are those ancestors important is their sacrifice important is their story something that we want to learn from their values matter what they sacrificed for to give us even our civil rights in our country they are willing to sacrifice for that that isn't a story worth telling and if we can't tell it in it natural environment there is where the place where they really lived authenticity is what matters in today's world people travel from everywhere to c n n authentic place that has a real story about people that have values that matter that is what happens at the royalty farm and that's why the civil war muster has so well attended it's grown like crazy over the last nine years we need to take it to the next level we have students in high school that would like to get think it be great to be married and then royalty stops that's amazing they care that much about their history and the value of celebrating it they want to do that we have a responsibility to honor that heritage and to tell that story and to tell our future generations that we cared about it that we want to be grateful people and we want to be responsible with it and so i really think it's the right thing to deal could you do the felt please and bird yes yes peter's birch no sure the city manager's office is pleased to report the following gifts how a new connections for the fifth year in its fifth year profile of the the program received ten thousand dollars from the community foundation of the area to graft nature center received a gift in the amount of three thousand dollars from the hauen garden club saw press collar ship received eight hundred dollars and five cents for the man from the matter been concession donation received five hundred dollars donation from hudsonville creamery an ice cream company and the for your operations of the public safety services department received excuse me amount worth one thousand two hundred fifty dollars power and public safety police operations received for purchase of a weapon received from the house police officers association in the amount of that we support supported by byrd although some pavers say i oppose same sign thank you so much community in so many ways time and money so the city council study session for may thirty one six six point four could you talk about that please write and i'll make it very brief there are five potential items for may thirty one that would be a special meeting that would be above and beyond what you normally do since the fifth one say and those five items could be deferred to subsequent meeting or subsequent months there's two more upstairs that we spoke of that would need to be talked about because varied like to preserve time next week for other business so potentially seven items could be moved forward once again there's there's nothing pressing it is part of the timetable some of which were established back in february after the goals but we will work a discussion earlier yes mr extra i would move that we schedule a study session on may thirty one twenty seventeen from five thirty p m to eight o'clock p m to be strictly observed extended only by because i have some other obligations of professional nature and related to my smartphone but i don't that i had an expectation that is different from what is being proposed tonight so that is i ask for a bit of clarification you can ask if we had discussion upstairs about the study session or next week primary concern being the b b w and there was three other items on there i believe one of the things that we had talked about in this was not part of your motion and i if you so desire and don't want to amend it i will make an amendment but we have talked about the primary focus of next week strictly being the your time table of approximately nine o'clock and any other items that we felt necessary could be rolled over the thirty first if in fact we had this meeting so are you asking are there specific items that you're asking to be looted or is this something that would tend to fall under your business tell you what i mean that you complicated i would like to amend david's motion to include items that could roll over to the thirty first from the meeting that we're having next week it's a two fold thing here time limit would be to nine o'clock primary focus being the b b w there was three other items the governance ryan help me out here write the other ones for parks peyser rating governance discussion and o'clock whatever is not done there would be rolled over to the twenty to the thirty first that is my motion support ok so we have a motion an amended motion but we need to do something here right  yet when we do vote on the amend he had discussion on the amended motion and then vote on the i should say amended motion on the motion to a man you need to have discussion on that motion to amend and then a vote on that i don't see just as an aside i have a sense that this could turn into one of those mother amended motions just so brother mike as i'm hearing what you're saying that we potentially have correct ok ok any more discussion on the amended motion you and i could you call for the vote please oh no we can just do a voice like how many believe are doing this how many would say i if you agree with mike all right oppose same ok that carries did we finish this right no no now we have the amended motion ok we have the amended motion do i discuss that ok that carries around with the thirty first and the optional eight the eight items till eight o'clock for we might stop at eight ok for the thirty first thank you now we're going to  share with the community fundraising phase of the civic center as an including the possibility of naming rights and some of those naming rights would eventually come back to us a session before it's there announce the council's part of all that consideration the first thing that's coming back to you for your consideration is a very robust understanding as to what a booklet might look like for the purpose this doesn't do it justice actually what you needs to be created in addition to that there's a pledge cards and thank you notes and a number of other ancillary activities that need to be designed in keeping with one another as well as the cit brand standards but also something special that relates to just the civic center that needs to be determined so we it's important to get some professional design assistance we did make an internal effort and  are our fundraiser signify that brought in the examples explaining that it's much much more complicated than what we internally believe we could accomplish so we have before you a proposal with  this plus electronic assistance associated with funding that can be brought in that way is proposed for a total of nine thousand four hundred sixty eight dollars and that has been discounted because think we've been talking we've been fund raising for a really long time and i guess is kind of weird that we're doing this now and it's a lot of money i got to be honest i mean i'm involved in this included in the first place when we approve this on april nineteenth when we hired the campaign guy this should have been baked in to his fees and his expertise rather than coming back to us for another ten would i mean it's a third of his budget we're paying him thirty five thousand dollars and now we're paying an extra ten thousand dollars for this i just i'm really confused by this and i don't understand why we keep shelling out kind of nickel and dime  brochures and the things and that kind of stuff now it's it's into spaded that we would use this design in and work with the printer to have discounted services think i want to be fair to our friend maser at i believe signified that some sort of support like this would be necessary and he did profess to go out and get beds for us or anything so i don't i don't think he  in any way intended to have anyone misled i think that we could do this internally it is where i where i i kind of stop short is the idea of creating a logo that relates to a theme that has the gravitas of others that he showed us you know that's where i think we're really the most short we do have some to very talented people including people on this coun so it's not that we couldn't do internally something that purpose approximates what what is it he's not used elsewhere but a sure fire guarantee is is i think what he can offer us by the approach somebody correct we have five wrong i believe in order to do a fund raising campaign well you just don't go out and start as asking for donations you need to have the things that are being asked for here you need to have something to show people you have something to catch their attention you need to have something that they can grasp with there's just more as i wish understanding what little i know of fundraising there's a much more to it than meets the eye and it is i think it was understood that when we entered into the decision to put stickers on envelopes and stuff letters in the envelopes and all like of logistical stuff in order to pull a successful kid and pay off and you know i i think it's a given that our current staff is pretty much just stretched to the limit by what they're doing day to day rather than into it to ask them you know if you're right there is talent available to do it but to ask them to do it i think is a reasonable we've made the decision to go down this road to take the path of fund raising with an end in mind i hope so i think you know there's also been a lot of things without naming them specifically just the sense i have that you know that we've been working from behind you know a lot of instances you're trying to play catch up and you know it's nobody's fault necessarily it's sort of been the way things have gone initially we were urged into a situation so i'm very tired of working from that position so yes this is a lot of money and i share the concern that s i'm just i'm compelled to ask the question how much do we need to raise he's asking one point four five the fund raising campaign is going to matter one point four five million dollars ye that implies to me that we've had there's been other successes that are coming down the pike we're hoping for that you get all right thank you  david everything you said is one hundred percent correct the frustration comes in however is that we first had forty two to forty five thousand dollars a ticket my money my numbers are correct x number of dollars a month for up to six months now we have another ten thousand now we're up to fifty five dollars what's next that's the frustration the fact that we need to raise the money the fact that we've agreed to raise the money is not the question but things like this probably should have been presented so we had the total picture you know we could very easily at this point make an amendment that says we will not spend any more than sixty thousand dollars on this program do with it within that or stop it words that right now that's the frustration that i fully understand going into this that we need to have this again not arguing with that whatsoever but what's going to be the next thing six thousand among those in the most for six months but there was a visual right so it was roughly forty two thousand we got another ten thousand here we're up to fifty two thousand is there anything else that's being m and for services timetable which may one through october the other things will influence glued the cost of printing but it's not donated to the city of course we have staff time so share with us and we have personnel that are lined up who who used to work exclusively at the civic center so there is some resources there of course that need approval be in the pudding and we will learn that as we  go this is set up on a monthly basis so should and it can be cancelled any point so she counsel not be comfortable at any point it can be canceled and i do want to hasten to say that this is you know this this bad value it's not the most critical thing would be most critical thing is the face to face contacts and campaign committee and the chairs of that committee and you know we can stumble through gentlemen it was here fundraiser guy was here the one thing i mean that i thought was a significant thing he was talking about surgical units that they were very expensive but several but nobody really wants to donate money to a surgical unit and their name is never seen or they don't get recognition for it so it seems to me that this is not a bad idea but i think we have to kind of in maybe what we need to get a group going is the same for do we need to establish what does one who donates money receive from that and what is it that they wish to receive from that until we kind of know and approve that we may be kind of developing this particular kind of thing before we are ready to be the kirkby for the horses to speak so i guess i'd like to kind of know a little bit has done this for twenty years he's rape's guide to six hundred million dollars he has a really good system for what to do when and what how to eclipse volunteers with the tools they need in order to present what you're asking so he's been very organized with what steps he wants and we're working hard now to ask volunteers to run this and he wants he will set up a meeting once a month and then people are there explain what what people were going to talk to and then they're given the tools to go talk with them we'll have a list of things that they could have their name on if they would like other things that they could donate towards so that they're the people on the committee that are willing to help with the fund raising and under the chairs will be well equipped to go and ask their friends for help with funding of the civic center right here i'm looking through keith's initial pitch letter to us and i guess i was really confused to what what he was selling in when he came in and spoke my understanding was this would be huge providing for gifts i guess i i felt like that was inclusive but he was making strategic ass and that's what he was we were hiring him to do and that his value was not in  in a public display but as you know developing meetings with the right people to get the areas the list that we had given him funded so i guess that was what i my expectation was that he he was doing that so to me this is a surprise to me this was not expected and to me this is if this is a is something that he thought we needed to do it should have been included in his initial recommendation as a separate line item or a budget item so i'm i'm not feeling very comfortable with this right now but we have a motion on the floor at the moment so that's all we have in the mean aside from an amendment that says you know it's either a no vote or about an amendment that says you know we were not going to spend more than x amount i don't i don't see much of a point  are we currently in the process of recruiting people to be volunteers to go out and approach our community business community in a very good way about their opportunity to put their name and he'll bring the civic center from this kind of gap we have to  committed business folks who will work with this fundraising console over the next six months they're going to we're going to some great materials they're going to get trained they're going to be told how to how to go out and tell the story in a great way they'll be great prospects because we have a lot of people in this community who would probably like to be able to contribute right there was no feasibility study done so i guess the only the only indication you can help me with get me over the cliff here is how would you judge the enthusiasm in the excitement of the volunteers you're talking about getting involved in this project i don't know we don't know what that one point four five million dollars is going to be used for i don't know what that campaign looks like oh i just want to make sure that if we spend this money we got a really community that's ready to go in and make this happen and i don't have a sense of that but i want to desperately want to so give me some encouragement you've been talking to people you're recruiting the folks right here recruiting the pv their recruiting chair your car going to give me some sense of you know the the likelihood that if we go down this path and i would defend mr keith hopkins and his firm i think he does a great job i think randy boileau does an awesome job with the materials these are investments to we're going to spend eighty ninety thousand dollars maybe and money the cost of the campaign to raise one point four seven and i would argue that if typically that one point four five million dollars would include his eighty seven thousand that becomes part of the campaign not just coming out of the city's budget i'd encourage us to consider that  but give me skinny some positive words of what you've been working on because i want to support this and that and it's where it's you know who said we're kind of friends we've kind of come at this from behind i totally appreciate that coming we don't build civic centers every day  we had a price tag we as a group decided that i would just you know it's not going to be quite as much so that's given us a bit of a challenge but we're working through that so top give me all the positive comment possibly can to make we know that this we spend this money we're going to raise one point four five million dollars ryan you've been in those conversations as well just this is up give me want to get me in the kidney i want i want i want i mean i think last night a call possible chair and he said yes immediately he's very excited about working on this ok and so that's good news right you know we want to do the best job we can we're stopping with what we're going to ask of the taxpayer for the total bill we're asking for a little more in order to be able to do the job right when ever someone contributes to something they care about it even more than if they didn't it's an opportunity for people in the community to be a part of the building of the civic center and creating new memories they're the place where everyone feels welcome and we have the opportunity to bridge all kinds of differences around interests and events and making memories together can i guarantee anything mel do i want to stop now to know and i willing to give it all i've got to make it happen yes i have i've been saying that since the beginning yes and i'm i'm committed to this project and to do the best we can with whatever cards were dealt and  i hope that that passion can go through that committee as well and i know it will be in the chair thank you sure there's been more question yeah mike push this process is going to be covered by the fund raising and there will not be any general tax money any tax money whatsoever used in this fundraising not exactly sure what you are well stating are you covering all these costs in the fundraising we are not going to have any city funds specific city funds coming out to pay for this from the surplus expected at the end of this fiscal year i will would be cast i think the consideration and look to our finance director to invite me for a second to see what the auditors would say  but it seems to me that the funds you know of one point five million was donated for the one mill with a less less tangible and a less planned out campaign so it seems logical that that's a reasonable goal in this case and did the auditors have a consideration they need to be taken into account as to how those fundraise dollars are used with this also involve the  the community foundation as you know last week you prove that it includes an electronic means of getting i think they called it a micro site which is technology we haven't used right question i'm sure most i made twenty minutes ago now partly to move this one but the now that we're reading this to surplus but i thought i thought we were ok any other further discussion i was upset with brian for taking it off the consent but i'm glad he did it as much as i have been supportive of the civic center there was a reason why there was discussion about putting a cap on tax payers  nothing against your fundraiser absolutely nothing against bill they do top notch work but never do anything about that open ended news of this whole process scares the devil  we started out of it at a separate and all the sudden we've trip to new another ten thousand bucks more in number and i can't save enough what's next at this point intel somebody can tell me or we have a motion on the table that says we are not going to spend more than fifty thousand dollars i cannot support your proposal for now i'm sorry i want to see it succeed i've been in this town for sixty one years just about as long as the civic center is we we grew up together and we probably feel about the same i you know but i just it's not fiscally responsible to me to work constituents to have an open ended thing like this when i'm hearing we might we possibly could be this possibly my head that just does not feel good to me using taxpayer money so let me float this out there i just said i would probably not support unless there was a in amendment to the original motion to put a cap on this fund raising expenditure we're already up to thirty depending on whose numbers you're looking at thirty forty five thousand right give or take a thousand so i'm going to make a proposal here that we kept in the fund raising for this one point four five million dollars at fifty thousand dollars materials that are need be designed as well as the printing costs which is the next cost that you keep asking about that's the next cost that we haven't seen yet and his initial proposal from the beginning so i mean i'll get i'll get behind that and if it boileau needs to adjust there is to make sure printing costs fit within that budget i think we should put that recommendation to them  as well if they have to show one visit to design for the three designs that's been a few fewer hours on that front end i mean half of this is going into just thinking through design that i think we can probably find that a bit more efficiently if we need to somehow conserve the resources for the discussion approve the expenditure of maybe four hundred hours that will need to be of a roll call but the motion to amend can be a voice vote ok so all those in favor of mike's amended motion to cap the spending at fifty thousand is the beneficiary of a ten thousand dollar challenge grant so this this is the opportunity for people who support this program to get a two for one with their donations so we will we we are planning on this summer in some capacity with communications and they are just fine another commercial for the to look big which is tomorrow starts at nine o'clock centennial park a window on the waterfront will give out two lives you can dig them up until they're gone so last year we ran out early and there's a lot of interest so starts at nine and you can bring a bucket they i think five dollars a bucket for you to fill so that's tomorrow that's on saturday yeah saturday saturday morning to say tomorrow i'm so sorry saturday oh my saturday from nine to maybe twelve we'll see thank you very much are there any communications from council members sorry two legal opinions and to discuss pending litigation settlement strategy thank you and we expect action afterwards but don't expect any action after ok so that is birch yes then yes white men yes your divorce yes motion passes to go in session thank you have a wonderful evening thank you