good morning commissioners call the meeting to order and this time there will be public testimony for anyone that cannot going to see communications do you w community plan road designation and county zoning rural if you went through your packet this is a regular routine thing that they are doing statewide and the reason why it took this l is because of the ownership of the land where they wanted to situate the new proposed so the siren that they're talking about is across the street so it's currently existing  parcel what they're doing is they're removing that the existing there relocating it right here in front of the entrance way next to the entrance way of the killer whale park so that will be its new location or other natural or manmade emergencies in your exhibit will the plans on how it where it's located how high it will be and assessment application and they've been going through the process to do it correctly so that is why we are here today and we are asking that the commission waive its reveal on this application so if you if you do have any question have is how is it possible that t s a was able to approve an electrical permit when current division department planning would have to sign off on an electrical permit and that did not happen in this case and have there been corrections made to avoid this type of scenario in the future think you see feel confident that we won't encounter this scenario in the future  discuss the matter with the department of planning realize that solar and moving into that renewable energy is something that the colony is in favor of so working with in part with the department's public works planning to try and mitigate it to where it its more permissive was not what it is today but yet they still would have to make what clayton said through the planning department and go through the same process but it is started at the beginning of april and the commissioner could have gotten us started in february so that we would provide some information in which the commission will deal with perhaps you maybe have two roles one is in certain cases you are advice or we say to the council as you were at the last meeting there were several proposal men mends to title five members for action can be taken by an affirmative vote all five members at least five members i know matter how many members who are here whether you have five or not you need at least five affirmative votes to take an action we are going to go through various aspects relative to the division administrator so will bring pam in in a future meeting to talk about the general plan and ban implementation and then we'll turn it over to your attorney which will tones and to talk about  various legal k so i apologize for the technology that we have here for  discuss about that and fish or to rent those and then we'll have court counsel talk to you about the plea then i'll give it back to clean it in he'll talk about the policy against discrimination and we have  yes sol feel free to ask away this is your time to get educated and be knowledgeable about your role and what our role is as well so please do ask questions regulated of fifty states so what this means when you buy raw land to actually groundbreaking where you can actually start building what you want to build on that and usually takes around seven overview just a quick math on how the planning framework actually looks like and i apologize again because you would have seen that whole thing on there but you know you got to use your exercise glasses to kind of figure out where you and how do i get that ready for your review and what types of projects would you be looking at so that's how we're going to dissect this thing and if it's get if it gets kind of complicated these ask question so prior to it actually coming to them all ok planning commission so for months two years so you start with the application so the applicant turns into a submits their application to the county the the  part been internally the plan it takes that application in after it gets assigned and the planet does its specific reveal so part of the review is that the planner is not the expert on everything so the plan is job is to fly experts to help them through this review whether it's engineering whether it's architectural whether it's anything of that school so it goes into agency reviews that's where we look for the expertise we contact the fireman of health if there's something that triggers that we asked the police department and we asked the fire department for the s t department of transportation to take a look at what the traffic analysis if there's something more in depth that the the project or the applicant is not giving please provide any comments any recommendations any types of condition we look at deal n r and look in that state historic preservation so that's a type of agency review that this one project can go through and it can go through many of the partment hands to find any environmental impact so anything that will impact the project will impact the surrounding area or impact the social economical so it looks at all of that character so once it goes through the agency reveal a goals actually back to the applicant to see if there's any changes that needs to be done the recommendations from these departments and how they can you know from landscaping to parking you know what needs to be done if you're in a flood zone what type of a permit requirements are needed so that that's kind of the process that the applicant needs to go through so after the applicant goes through that process if it has to go through a public hearing there's a there's a due process for that public hearing have to notify their opening parties they have to notify their five hundred foot radius that their neighbors to see if there's anybody who has any complaints anybody who supports the project and any other outside resources that they need to make sure that this proposed project is actually a good thing and it'll be a betterment towards themselves as well as around them and their community so we have this public hearing process where people as well as the public can come in and testify on behalf of the applicant or against the applicant and sta they're in a state their intent and their preference and providing their facts so this is that time for public to get involved after the public gets involved oh this is where it comes to p c review so planning the project is all about you may not see the whole application but it's the staff job to review to review to you in their report what is necessary for you to look at and you have that high to make any type of recommendation considerations and condition so state planning law evolves so how is the constitution they put a structure of state and county government and within the why is the planning acking one hundred seventy eight it was established as a state wide planning system so that this is  why is unique with its the land use designation so our lands in hawaii designated into one of four categories so under the state land use designation you have either agricultural rural that majority of the lands in the state of hawaii are agriculture so ninety five percent of all ads in hawaii are either or conservation and only five percent are classified as  i do not have the moral code you want on but i know i should of which the long range plan the long range was going to propose that what if you actually look at moral cry when tried over labs or ag and conservation so we have a really if it's more than fifteen acres so that they would have to go through the land use commission process if it's less than fifteen acres it goes through the county process so this is where the commission comes into play and makes a recommendation the first of the conferences that i went to one of the workshops was untitled do we really need the land use commission because most of what they do is done by other agencies it's just another layer of the same review  delay and expense to others without any added benefit this was the tone of the workshop with the land use commission there squirming has anything come  from sixty nine to twenty eleven is it because more went to conservation why i can give you an example they call a lot of sugar plantations went down six acres up to ten acre parcel of what is supposed to be still an egg but it's more of a residential you know that the big the build their big houses and i mean i don't know if you want to you know what's going to happen to us and now that you don't have sugarcane so we you know we lost our pineapple fields we lost our sugarcane fields now we've got you want i mean just by looking at the history of hawaii and agriculture that one percent you know this one percent that looks like it went through the rural area were you look at the party room looks bigger now twenty eleven be sixty nine what thank you for that question been meant to change it from a to urban after submitting an environmental assessment so the next one is just a picture of how the high school project is and so the final chapter in the high school just want to give you an update on that so we are still in the process of transmitting that out to council so it didn't make its final way or final decision yet so it's still in the hands of the c identified as any special uses within the state ag and rural districts special criteria as are established which i'll actually go further to discuss s e p to use in the us short term rental other then the more money commission committees boards and commissions so all in in some projects they might have to go through an arborist committee before it hits a commission  instance with the urban design review board or make for a country town business district they might have to go through you'd be before it hits commission usually if it's  ok on that on the other commission's report comes to them all kind of planning commission are these just recommendations that they're making to the planning commission or is it set in code for instance arborist if they don't like the plant they just outright tell you that the plant is it's not native so they can tell you that you've got to take that out and you've got a plant something that's made that through recommendation or that they make or is that if you don't do it then they're not going to approve it while the estimate process typically they have  keeping plan which may be reviewed by the urban design review board which also has a less keep architect on the idea of an exam board but then they would have to submit ok well i'm just saying over here because everything that says here is provide recommendations about it that's why i was asking that question so these are just commission committees that boy that would help you make the article or not and this will help you if you if the commission feels that it is an added condition towards they approval then you can add it as a as a condition that they meet the recommendations of the operations committee or you meet the recommendations u t i be so that is something that it's in your purview whether or not you use that as  alternative but either don't use it or don't don't you know you know to me don't put it into the  flow chart shows do the point here where the after it was reviewed by the specialists the experts here went back to the applicant that's before we see it so i am going on the grounds that end in one decision making here is that it's already been reviewed and anything that is not to code or to the recommendations of these revealing commissions for bodies that it goes that because it sounds like if they just make recommendation it comes to us that we're going to add this is a condition it's a pretty late in the process for us to ask the the applicant to make changes it should be that a reading of the initial return to them again we're asked to make a special allowance that's whether you are activity or construction in a special use area has a sorry been reviewed by the experts and we're not be we're not given the task to prove something that isn't in line with those other commission's recommendations it's already gone back to the owner and saying you can't do this they corrected that before we see it that's my concern they were being asked to make an allowance especially where were allowing special you see in an area controlled area has it already been brought into compliance for the special use is not damaging to the environment or to the community yeah that's what i'm concerned about making sense  to try to maybe i can help to clarify clarify some of this from some experience we've had so these preliminary reviews the come before them ok planning commission receive something are just recommendations or planning commission will get as part of the package now often these recommendations that these record bases will go back to the applicant but there are times where it's not practical it's not financially possible it's not physically possible for the applicant of the project to comply or for make those recommendations and so in which case the planning commission can look at that applicant come in and say we understand is the recommendation but we can't do it for reason planning commission has the authority to either say yes we we we agree with the applicant we don't you don't need to do this recommendation or whatever it is so we do have that ability based upon a case by case basis so i just want to try to be clear that these are just recommendations that we can accept and adopt or we can grant exceptions to these recommendations we don't have to go by them also also besides that and i know i know this for a fact because i went through it the applicants are invited to like the urban design review board to go through that process and i think i think the these are recommendations they're making to us and that's why i'm asking the questions based on what you have here is recommendations which if for any applicant i mean if it's going to cost them more money then you're going to see that right away and that's why i say that if it went through the program mary places and then later like you were saying went back to the applicant then the applicant looks at it and are going to say well you know they may not be able to do this if it's going to be another cost effective for them and if you although that the planning commission won't there until you guys get the we we get the information and then at that point then the applicant can talk about that but if the planning commission is not on top of it and then they're just going to say well you know it was recommended by urban design review board that arborists or whatever not knowing that that it's a recommendation but you may not put a condition on it or may not want to know on it because that's what it comes down to that if you don't do it then they're going to put a condition on it and a condition is what they're recommending and that's why i brought this up i mean that it's just a question that i really  and i would want to remind you to you do not you do have the final authority meaning that you don't have to approve the project as well so you have the option to approve to hundred percent the applicant still has the opportunity to come forward and say you know it's as conspiracy it's i was saying that because of the certain characteristics on this property this condition is really excessive you know so they can they can make their case to you to the projects that have come up for you generally are so well you know almost always you may follow the planning department recommendations and their conditions but not always zone whether it was already see an egg state conservation county just kind of blanket everything county y and put everything on interims only it is to encourage the most appropriate  men to conserve and lies the value of the property and to prevent certain uses that would be detrimental to existing uses and to promote the health safety and general welfare of their respective districts so district has provides flexible and creative planning i put it in there because i know a lot of going through that committee plan up the process project districts involve a lot so project district is referred to as quote plug in chapter three forty three a lawyer by statute the purpose is to establish a system of environmental review within the planning process which will ensure that environmental concerns quality of life and to assure public participation under the state's environmental law all projects are fall into one of four categories first those that did not exemption there so it's going to list further amplifies what kind of exemption actions could be exempt there and indeed various exemption classes other agencies wanted to add a little bit to that you know what are his bio mellow assessments and environmental impact statements used for after that part of the process is done as part of the document it's it's an informational document so it should be used as part of the process as that project goes all the way through to receiving its permits or entitlements or whatever commissions that project needs to move forward that document should really accompany every step of the way and be a reference guide to like this commission when it's making its decision and say like in the us i may permit and the conditions that the department or other agencies might recommend may come from that environmental assessment so it's it should be something that follows its way all the way through it addresses and move to the different impacts and tries to mitigate those risks so that's the purpose of that document and helps to keep that in mind when you're just going around be right along any question do you want to take a break because we're done with the first three we've got four more well three more to go and my short term or two is pretty thick six so it's more than just showing the major tax gets and there and that is we're actually experiencing that with one of our clients where they're an out of state resident and it's causing them some some grief so it's not just simply show that you paid your taxes actually getting a tax clearance which takes into account not just your kids e g taxes but income tax whether it be personal corporation with your out of state international whatever so it is it is very restrictive  number the twelve the twenty four hour telephone number for the manager and the telephone number for the department questions i do have a question knowing that the owners of short term rental homes often use their homes and they're not considered rentals or guests and there are people that when they occupy the units during that period of time that is not a rental would any complaints against them during their personal use be counted against the short term rental for the purposes of non renewal or compl aha so i guess my question is even if if the complaints were valid if the complaints on the actual activity that was happening was a non rental period would that complaint be do so that the question is let's say for instance a short term rental home they're restricted to three bedrooms and six guests well during a portion when the owner there they occupy all five bedrooms they have twenty seven guess they have amplified music they have large gatherings and there's significant impact to the neighbors as a private use of their own private home would that be a violation of the permit conditions because it was during personal use of the home owner or would that not be a violation or is any violation of the conditions public complains planning department is investigating the allegations right so they conduct their allegations of our department not myself but another of my counterparts would be advising the department find whether they would issue would notice a morning or a notice a violation so assume they issued a notice of warning to show not the owner would have a chance to respond and say hey this has nothing to do with transience because your ally has to do with my own party i don't know how that would be resolved or whether it affected their permit renewal and whether it be considered a permit violation i don't know that i'm not aware of that situation coming up specifically but it's a really good question and i think that the way the codes written right now i don't i'm not looking at i read the second but it doesn't specify what kinds of violations it just says violations during this period  is unfavorable towards a neighbor's short term rental and then the neighbor who decides to host a wedding for one of their family members which would be in violation of the conditions if it were being used as a rental for the neighbor could go use that to try to get their permit revoked for four violations when the owners is exercising their private property rights and what i would suggest is that at that p be raised either the next time the council or in the next time the commission reviews that ordinance i think that's a good point to make and also i think that the department which is going to have to you know if and when that situation comes up that department to have to take a stand on their policy from foresman to shore and i but the reason i say this is you know bring this up and thank you for entertaining the long question but could we perhaps recommend  department look at granting an exemption from compliance of permit conditions for personal private use of the o that is that it would be really difficult for the planning department to be able to tell you know when that home was being rented to others of course you'd have receipts and the owner could try to prove that but i don't really think where that would come up more than just having a blanket list of exemptions would be an enforcement of the owner it's what used that as a defense you know that this doesn't have anything to do with the operation of the permit  they might be violating other laws but you know as far as the permit goes they were trying to argue it's has nothing to do with it behooves the owners to keep really good records so i have one of the fli has the same owner cannot have more than one short term rental home for me and i'm in a home ownership of fifty percent so if you're an owner if you have a lot that you own that there is multiple you have to have at least fifty percent of the ownership in order to come for as theory sohan and i now don't have to use that realtor not real term managers because of their geographic their specific location two years so the initial death of her it will be and b they are initially permitted for up to three years s t r a just not ever you have your initial permit approval for one year unless they would have to wait to be caught b or if you have a notice of warning did do you have a time period to get out of the i mean what can you do if you have the daughters and say ok well i really didn't want to do this how do you get can i just say hey i'm sorry go on down the road  this fine or this that this find it you have to pay and you have a certain amount of time to rectify it in going through the permitting process you want to continue to do it by which to comply if you receive a notice of warning and except for wait for five years right so knowing that in planning sorry i should know that it correctly absolutely right commissionaire what the planning and second reading put it up to the college saw what they're going to initialise is an enforcement bill so they do not want to hold up the short term rental amendment process because it's they've been already taking a year and a half so they want to get those amendments really vetted out and then now they're going to come back to do it enforcement bill and so that enforcement bill will actually go through all the commission and that will that is when you have that time to make those recommendations to this to the enforcement of the short term rental home bill with your recommendations to the council for their final authority so they will be doing that sometime in summer and fall throughout the rest of the year so that's where that's where that lies but as as we as we look at it now that is that the kind of notice of wording a six month grace period allowing illegal operators to come in so if they pass or when they pass council pass this then these illegal operators can come in to actually rectify that and make it a permit permissible use n p r and lobby the my visitors realtors association lobbied council at first reading for bad to only apply after notice a violation is issued so the department was not represented at this meeting but council is actually looking at that again the department is this cussing options and it says w adopted by council it must go through all of the planning commissions for review and recommendation is that correct ok i was going right into it ok so this is the other chance that mall of i am ali and i plan to commissions can can put their input so this is a twenty six the enforcement bill it was introduced by chairman mike white the intent is to strength then enforcement powers of county it will be the first to cut missions this summer and this will be your  opportunity to make recommendations so you have to separate this enforcement bill from what the committee and the conses looking at right now so the amendments and then first man bill is to separate the so what they're looking at right that's what they're looking at right now in six months or next week may twenty six it'll come back to the table to the committee and if it will be up to them for so that is part of this that  k and b so our it is looking at what marshall commissioner marshall brought up with changing the cap in the community plan this tricks so if that is something to consider ok should be considered that the number of bedrooms used in the short term would be greater than three on more i know it was discussed in council that they wanted to up  we i am pretty confident in what they're doing because like i said mollie county has the only stronghold on these chanted vacation compared to a wahoo compare in comparison to were no triggers so as you're going to go over with the triggers so m o p c is in charge of protecting its character of the neighborhood so when you when you do me feel and how do you  hundred foot radius so within that if any one of their neighbors would want to complain you need thirty percent of them complain not not me thirty percent of those letters come from one property media that thirty percent of the neighbor character short term rent those same as b n b s jerry and if there is and this is the reason why next week the next commission the next meeting you see this is because there are two for more common like i said that there is another in your age so the collar felt that some neighborhoods more appropriate to have multiple s t r each leg east and and would would probably make them the bulk of it but they did not support that density cap so also commission a marshall that might pertain to your question so instead of just one would trigger if there is to charter a rental within that area and yet you each commissioner rushing you are right we do have a local one at that and and in that way they tried to keep you know because it lost the character of that meat broker or they wanted to put a cap so that's just something to consider well what when you clear it within that five hundred foot distance yes yes in regards to the slide that i'm on right now so protecting neighborhood character that neighborhood of that five hundred so a thirty percent are more is when forty plus not or fifteen percent or more which is which within this particular  and as long that line touches the property it's considered commission job is to protect residential housing and care for the neighborhood so by having more than two within five hundred feet and one neighbor protests happen that doesn't mean that the residential housing  to the neighborhood has been compromised it just means those are things you may consider so i just i just want to be clear that those are conditions you don't look at because if those conditions are met then so i think it's a little bit unclear that that  appears that if those two conditions are met then you must not but i want to be clear that that's not the case and those are things that if you can't because if you look at places like papa who rented you got five ten or twenty acre parcels well if you have to parcel to twenty acre parcels next to one another well they're going to be within five hundred feet of each other because there are there are boundaries but the the homes may be t clarification and just couple of two cents on that here you're correct that those are things you can consider in the department considers and or the planning commission considers those factors when you're analyzing an application  the number and distance from the parcel to other permit it short term rental homes number and substance of protests and that's what it's really up to the decision maker it's up to you you look at that protest you look at who's making  what parcel that they own and relationship what the substance of the complaint as doesn't have to do with impacts of operation of a short term rental home or do they just not like each other you know so it's you get  judge don't wait that you're going to give to the protests and what they say within the protest to you i mean look at past complaints if there has been an operating vacation rental or other rental property you can look at past complaints  and evidence of noncompliance and you know the degree of cooperation in the applicant with the government to you so you're looking at a lot of fairly subjective kind of categories of evidence but you're trying look for hard evidence new ways that you know excessive trash they park on the neighbor's property you know stuff like that those are if you had neighbor protests or complaints that kind of talked about those types of impacts you protests it's administratively reviewed and approved through the department only when these two are these triggers are you know are identify it a company for the commission  but then again the commission didn't see a short term rental house permanent the commission only saw the state land use commission special use permit just to be clear and that's a good segue to the next  accessory use so implement the current plan is not just a request commendation but it's a requirement so right now as it speeds the last say it's a recommendation to have an employment in fire plan the new amendment which they're putting in it will become a required that it will be and in there will have to have it implemented farm plan so state law still has if if they use that is subject to special use permit and less than fifteen acres you stone would work out so for example quarries on ag land that property and stuff they t i n k parcel may be fifty acres but if the quarry is ten he'll be the decision making authority if the quarry itself has twenty and it goes through this planning commission but then it goes to a state that is commission for final decision it's not so much the p most counties only districts allow b and b and you each with a permit or they can be nonconforming but it's very rare you have to pull the knuckle for me are grandfathered in class so for state land use classification an objective of h r s who will buy this trick one of which is promoting agriculture by requiring to over fifty percent of the land is it ag or agriculture conservation however you as a public agencies to provide roldan streets sewer and water drainage school improvements police and fire protection unusual conditions trends and needs have arisen since the district boundaries and permit that ministry to fools if you're going to deny a special use permit you would want to make claims on their record that say this use request is not it's not unusual the reason why it's not reasonable for these reasons does burden public facilities because of this or is it you know you know what i'm saying you need to you need to look at that law and apply that one to the facts of the application so when you're going to your discussion so somebody makes a motion to deny the special use permit second that part of the body's discussion is you're going through what you had discussed how it does or doesn't meet those criteria and the law and then you make your decision based on  the reason that's important is that that applicant has the opportunity to appeal your decision to circuit court now the circuit court is going to look at your record and it's going to look and see how did you make that decision did you apply the law correctly and are there facts in the record that support your decision so that's why the staff and i and your other legal people will really try to nag you a lot to make your findings on the record and we might stop you before you take a vote and say can you give me some more they know give me some more reasons behind your decision before you get all the way there that's why regulations these ask questions because we love to provide answers and i as a staff probably you may miss stuff that you guys might see and it will help me do a better job as well yeah and if you don't ask the questions or will we have as part of this staff report the farm and the area of the property that is enough aeration according to the family life you requested and i can provide that for you yes because that's one of the criteria that's to be applied what you do you will you make that determination and just report on us and report to us that it is in compliance or we have to look at that as well i would be satisfied if it is in in the best part of the body of the report like you say be check this this in this will talk to this department and they have no comment or this is their comments will it be part of that report that the farm plan has i think a morsel though think two to consider is if there is not a foreign plan that has been implemented we won't see a package they would even bring it to us unless all the conditions are me so so what he's asking as that will there be or what he's requesting is that information be available to us and based on what rob is saying we won't see it if it's approved you know when they do testimonies they refer to those people can be very sad here oh i mean isn't there something that can be addressed in that situation at all yeah i mean they may be perfectly clear but anyway it's just a question mean the short answer the question is no they're not subject to the same kinds of rules or restrictions that county employees are officials or appointed members are subject to potentially they be subject to harassment claims you know this or that would be more of a criminal or civil kind of remedy but not the same type of anti discrimination law that is referring to taking private property or private property rights or is going to go over go over those topics the sunshine law you have probably heard about this and various other forums that's why it's open meetings law the purpose of the law is to open up government processes so that the public can participate so that they know why the decisions are made and how they're made and probably one of the most important parts of it is that the public has a notice of meetings so if anybody wanted to come here and offer their testimony on any of the agenda items they have usually three minutes to say whatever they want to about the agenda item i think often just in practice the public doesn't quite understand that they should be limited to the agenda items and that's the chair is to do to bring them back on track and let them know that we're we're just considering certain topics sometimes easier said than done ea sier said than done at times people have the opportunity to submit testimony you know in person or early or they can submit it in writing and under your rules  planning commissions rules you have you can set time limits on all testimony and they can't be less than three minutes per person and that's per person per topic if a person wanted to speak on two different agenda items they would be allowed to separate three minutes the reason that's important to have that time limit is that that allows the other people who may be waiting at the end of the line to have their say and to not feel in order to make a decision or to deliberate upon a decision of which this board has supervision so if you have an application that is pending or that you know that's coming up that's boy as this you have supervising supervising authority over at supervisory and what that means is that outside of a meeting context outside of a properly notice meeting you should refrain from talking about board business with each other you can talk about board business completely concluded and then you're free to talk to each other or talk in a meeting in a meeting  setting this probably i don't see this necessarily happening for this commission but there are certain times where you can set up and they call them permitted and investigative groups so say there was some topic that was coming before this commission and you didn't want to use the entire commission's time at a formal meeting setting you could nominate less than quorum so like two to four people two to four commissioners could  this committee have a specific task to investigate they go out and they investigate the task come back and report to the entire board when they're investigating they don't have to publish notice of their meetings they can't conduct those meetings on their own but anything any decision making happens within this body when they confront them apart back to you and i guess that i i don't think that i'll probably come up that often but it could and we've had occasions where less than four inches up to a meeting and what happens then and we can cancel the meeting but sometimes people have taken a big chunk of their day and they want to come and testify in  whatever agenda items or there might be presentations from people that are from off island so what you can do is the the board members who are there can receive the testimony and the presentations they can ask questions  through council and several of your really really interested in that and you want to be over there close a trade if you shop at this meeting and you look around and you know you don't want to violate the sunshine law if you're not as long as it's less than quorum you're not representing your game planning commission and you're obviously members of the commission but you're you're there to attend another meeting and what you should do those who bring that knowledge back in at your next meeting share that you are there and what was discussed the commissioners exclude the public and you talk about basically your rights duties obligations some of the legal questions that you need to have a free and frank discussion with me prior to having a public discussion on the record so you're exploring whether a liability is here if we impose those perfect condition is that straying too far into your legality you wouldn't want to have that discussion on the record you need to have that in private when your tour you so you can fully flush it out so that would be kind of a an example of the purpose of an executive meeting you folks are pretty well versed in robert's rules of order or parliamentary procedure generally that the rules are that chairperson controls the controls of all of the meeting so commissioner should first got to the chair and obtain  permission to go ahead and speak one of the reasons for that is that it prevents cross talk and it makes the record clear you know versus having a big hullabaloo where you can't keep anything straight and that would make the record on appeal also extremely hard have seen this quite often and the maker of the motion still serves that they can change their motion even after it's been seconded technically that is an amendment to the main motion and should be voted on yeah and a and then go back to your main motion so once once it's been seconded that belongs to the body once you get to voting your rules of procedure say that if you remain silent that's a vote in favor of whatever the motion is so unless you have a conflict of interest that's been disclosed on the record and we're going to battle over it later the less you have a conflict of interest in your abstaining from voting on that basis if you're  going to violate anything the main program that involves business transactions or activities that but a financial interest that may intend to pare impair your independence of judgment so if you voting you don't have to recuse yourself from discussion on most things you would still feel the participate in discussion but you should disclose a conflict and then refrain from voting and i don't failure to disclose that you rule regarding conflict of interest interest says that whenever a conflict of interest or other ethical question is raised by anyone so anyone in here member of the public and a member so when the member is deemed by this body or the board of ethics to have a conflict of interest that member shall be disqualified from voting in all actions relating to such matters fairly clear when in doubt  you can always get an advisory opinion from the board of ethics it's really not that major of a process and it's generally you write the board of ethics a letter you describe the circumstances and they will hold a hearing on it and  contested cases the term contested case as applies to it applies to any so on your on your agenda you'll see hearing items those are public hearings so you're reviewing applications after the opportunity for a public hearing and public hearings have certain they have certain steps and procedures we are normally follow a pretty  informal procedure that we have noticed so we have the public hearing notice that's been published in the paper and then also on our agenda as the department and the applicant will submit evidence they can cross examine one another you can rebut you know but people's evidence the other parties evidence and the party and the shooting the proceedings of the applicant has the burden of proof they have the burden of convincing you that their application should be granted occasionally we will have intervention and so and intervention is there are two ways to intervene there's intervention that is as a matter of right so they are pretty much automatically left right and those are people with property interest in the land subject to the board's action so a coat of arms money for one who last away resides on a long long term  legacy or someone who can clearly demonstrate that their interest is distinguishable from that of the general public those are mandatory interventions or you've left those people in as parties and they get to actively participate in the contested case and then it kicks up that application to a more formal process the hurdle that that intervener the house to get over though is that they need to generally be able to convince you that they have an interest that's different from that of the general public a couple of years ago we had an intervention and i think it was a short term roll home application a kind of been a spe and the two parties who filed petitions to intervene the commission found that their interests were not different than that of the general public so they did not meet those tests and there are yeah you remember getting to a correct decision whether it's a gay or nay you just want to support a bill correct decision under the law and things are a number try to remain impartial try not to make conclusions until you've heard all the evidence  and make your decision based on evidence if you're not so say i don't like asian takes three meetings to come to a decision if you're not present for any of those stages you need to review the interview the record any written documentation or submit a testimony so that when you make a decision you can you can and you should say on the record i have had the opportunity to review last meetings met so i am up to speed and i think the reason that's important is that if that decision is appealed later one of the grounds of appeal could be that well commissioner so and so didn't review the record so they made a decision that was not based on the evidence therefore it was arbitrary therefore it should be tossed out or kicked back to the commission so that's one of the reasons you want to do it and we're on the very last homestretch taking taking the take in its cause is the fifth amendment to the u s constitution and it provides that no private property shall be taken for public use without just compensation how that went to play out in a more high planning commission would be if you set a permit condition that is excessive it goes beyond mitigating circumstances or is to our joyous y taking that person's property right without just compensation so that decision could be taken up to court and probably the county would need to pay something you know say there are a couple of door and then they deal where the government body in those situations will require a dedication of an easement to the government in exchange for granting a permit to do something both of those cases the u s supreme court found that the condition was excessive for the land use it was being requested so that condition was illegal basically it was a taking  when you're looking at permit conditions there and so those two cases stand for these these two points are law it's excellent on the essential nexus which means that the permit condition needs to reflect the law that you're applying so it needs to be tied to the government purpose you're trying to achieve and then rough proportionality means that don't make it excessive so let's see whether i can as i may permit that's kind of good good analysis right the commission can put conditions on granting of some a permit as long as the conditions are reasonable so there are proportional and i further the policies and the stories in height is just for example because when you're at the highway looking toward the coastline anything taller than that would impede you that might be a condition that you could impose  beach access and preservation of and if there is a historic property in located within a parcel in the special management area you can require that that be maintained as a permit co and those kinds of conditions would be supportable a condition that you have to provide that and i don't want to use any real example want to provide free hang gliding that's obviously completely unrelated to anything and that doesn't apply the law so that condition probably would be upheld it's kind of a dumb example but at any rate there you have it just kind of the last thing that we've been stressing you know all the way through the presentations is whether you're looking at an application and you're leaning toward approving it or denying it trying to go back to what we have by how does the application either meet or not meet those that law if you're going to  privileged conditions the conditions need to both support the law then they need to address the negative impacts that you're trying to mitigate so and we can help you get there as we go through it thanks that  ok thank you very much  we will have there could be this could be a long meeting on the of the twenty six so i just wanted to let all the commissioners know that