little bit later so i wanted to get started because we have a pretty big agenda nothing earth shattering but a lot of different items that i would like us to cover also from the administration this morning our we have  announcement around ten am dismounting just to see the ping tune from taiwan will be blessing us in the chambers with their delegation and at that time i will probably call for recess firstly first introduced them and do a presentation and then call for recess and have a picture taking in then move back on to the business at hand so right around ten am they should be here and we'll go from there ok this we have a number of items first of all on is our alarm system fund p eight thirty six so before we start that let me get public testimony first of all if there's anyone wishing to testify please sign up in the lobby and the floor you'll be allowed three minutes two and a half minutes and the light will turn yellow and on when the light turns red it will signify three minutes and i will ask you to co please state your name and if anyone you are representing any organization or company that you may be representing stablish connection with the district office has been set and we will rotate the different different district offices first of an office is there anyone wishing to testify with no objections i would like to close public testimony thank you and i wish all of you ladies in the district offices and on ok let us get started with our first i don't know which was brought forward last meeting but because the police are not here to for representation in the department of finance i put it off to this meeting it is p i eight thirty six alarms system fund miscellaneous communication dated may twenty eighth two thousand and fifteen from the county clerk reporting that on may twenty sixth two thousand and fifteen counsel we further this matter we dating to the alarm system system revolving fun another correspondence dated october thirteenth two thousand and fifteen from the director of finance relating to the creation of the valving fun members decided i was referred from the budget and finance committee to evaluate and the implementation of the alarm system program we met on august seventeenth two thousand and fifteen to discuss this matter by letter a dated october sixth two thousand and fifteen i requested that date when the fund would be ready for implementation for the provisions of chapter eight point three four  implementing agency which is the department of police will be deposited to this account a check on the budget twenty sixteen budget ordinance i have ver the county is concerned mr chair that department of finance and the office of the budget we are ready for this implementation as soon as the implementing agency are able to do thank protocol dictates that two officers respond sometimes that is half or one third of the police force in a district and manpower deployment is not addressed at that time because many tied to average time is between ten and fifteen minutes doesn't seem to be very much but you add that throughout the year it comes out to a substantial amount a lot of times these alarms are mechanical issues electronic issues there's no break in whatsoever so that's why we have addressed the that need to hold the alarm users accountable for usage utilizing their alarms and that's the crux of what's what's happening right now ok thank you lieutenant so if i understand you correctly a lot of these alarms are false alarms many times due to the lack of meanness of the systems their alarm systems or sometimes their lack of doing the right steps when setting or disk arming their alarm systems and i correct in saying that that's correct and that we take into consideration  weather conditions when we have storms hurricanes alarms go off ok so that would be a special consideration but if this is like the normal every day false alarms and then the police must respond no matter director of finance oh ok seen and actually i was i was going to defer this matter because this one and updates me should they were ready because i think we were been waiting while we doing there i'll call mr david good the rector of public works to come forward the next item is roads in limbo in maui county and state y p i eat fifty five be all government rules for which ownership by the state or county is still in question on you this is a report generated by the task force director good is a member of the task force also a copy of to bill the two bills and testimony from counsel chair by sight and myself testifying submitted testimony its support of during the two thousand and fourteen state legislative session which the good is here this morning will explain the recommendation of the task force and where the county and state stand on this issue currently good morning mr good morning care if you would like to begin please ok thank you  i think we're all aware of the issue regarding roads commonly known as roads in limbo or old government roads be using the term old government road today or old yards for short which are in a nutshell roads that were  formerly part of the territory of hawaii that war not formally accepted by a county legislative body like the board of supervisors or the council are ordinances require  council adoption to accept property get the state as heir to the territory preferred to pass laws at the state level simply declaring that all roads that they accept like state highways forty five plus years we last met on this item in december of two thousand and twelve in preparation for this working group that was put together as called for in the senate concurring resolution on moving forward as those meetings are being set up i want to kind of this body to get some general thoughts from you folks so that you know when we participated in the meeting we were prepared with the council's general feelings on the matter to bring up some of those yars accounting standards i think is a liability was probably the major issue that i sensed out of that meeting we met with d o t as part of this working group we met only a couple times of the d report i think you have with you it's a very simple report they had two items that came out of that one was if they are is acquired by the county and subsequently sold as perhaps it only services one property say that those funds would stay with the county this is something in state law that allows the city and county of whole will to do it but not the other counties so clearly we don't know so we have an issue with that the second had to do with the liability that if any government agency worked on a road that we didn't want to be exposed to liability especially the roads in terrible shape to part with  and that's you know consistent with the guidance i got here at the policy committee so with that report deal t had some bills they sent to wedge primarily dealing  with these two items and the bills god i think is twenty thirteen actually got to conference committee and died and then twenty fourteen or resuscitate and i don't think a crossover  when they got as far as conference committee i think it was two thousand and thirteen the language in the bill was the idea was to give the county so immunity from  liability for a period of time say ten years and in that ten years the county could then plan a program you know how they want how we want to accept it and how we could decide to fund any improvements  essentially my understanding is that the you lied the tort attorneys tort liability tourney's lobbyists killed the bill with all due respect  in the legislature after a couple attempts and one of the items that came up with a cataloguing so we start to put together a list and alice was transmitted to this committee on july of last year and that list  and as we discover new roads we modify or something for some reason is taken off the list from intensive purposes list is pretty darn good and there's about two hundred twenty roads on that list that we've identified as more than likely road yars and they exist just about every district in maui county since transmitting that list you know in thinking about what the legislature did it got pretty far but really had a stumbling block is related to having giving too much liability for your roads to the county least i guess in their opinion we start looking at that list in more detail and looked at will which ones do we can already work on and if you know you go through your list you'll see a lot of very familiar roads and the idea was well for already working on and deal with some of the roads why don't we just move forward with those roads and get our list down to a list of really really are all the roads not to standards that maybe that you know take another crack out of the legislature on a much smaller list and also show the progress that we've made to date so if you through that list again you'd be surprised at some of the roads you'll see on there but our records at least today our searches have not indicate that we've seen a resolution from again the board supervisors or the council and going through   doing something like a quit claim perhaps if the state doesn't want to claim ownership but i believe there's been other instances where they've quit claimed their  interest and then coming back to the council and adopting or accepting roads by say by map because trying to get me to mounds on all these things would be very difficult in the time consuming and costly and i think we have about one hundred ninety or so these two hundred twenty roads are class one roads some of them actually there long enough that there they clout their class one could be class two and three as well  class two are the ones that we don't maintain but they serve residents and so we have a handful of these in just about every district class three roads i would call paper roads if you were standing on it you probably would know you're on a road at least on its shows a road on a map class three roads would also typically service maybe one property or no properties and those are the ones that down the line we make say ok we're willing to dispose of you know honing in on of process or an idea that could make great strides you know into having a more complete and proper inventory of council county excepted roads and significantly reduce the amount of energy ours that need further legislative action and have a path that for that one day perhaps in the not so distant future we could actually put the whole forty five years of o t r is behind us that concludes my thoughts thank you very much mr wood before i open the floor for questions from the members i have a couple of quick ones i want to cover and then let the members start how many of these routes would you go on have control of these roles and we have maintained most of them to the years you see any real challenge from the state as far as taking over these roads you know i think they'd be fanatical to do it i guess the question would be how how they would do it and i remember i will remind them members that last year when we they were discussing the half percent not or if i'm not sure why forgettable whose idea was but wasn't a great idea they did give us to have percent but it would be dedicated to roads in limbo but they did remove that so that is not part of the equation at this time if i'm correct  just to remind it something the state will give us something but make us pay for it some other way and that was one of their ways sol opened the floor for questions asked how would you mr wayne and work my way right down the hundred ninety roads one how many of those are how many of those have portions that would be class of two that we that we don't maintain  by less than ten percent may around ten percent i agree i think you know we're if we can get rid of eighty five percent of the roads in limbo because we're already taking care of them i think that makes a lot of sense so i appreciate your providing us the detail this morning i think i think your idea is right on and thank you thank you thank you thank you mr o'connell because you were the originator of this issue back in two thousand and twelve so please yeah i haven't changed much so we don't feel to take over state responsibilities and it's  so my of my thing is what did it do why did this supposedly stop because they exercise jurisdiction out of it seems goes back to territorial days a state but there was a county still then before the territories so i think we need some historical information german because not every road is the same to me but make sure we can verify it and it is our responsibility in jurisdiction because i know that i think we have protection by the constitution and the state better give the money for this mandate make a note of that and we will for the letter with that request would send it to the department of transportation to try to ascertain that historical perspective that you're asking for mr okama and  and what have you and and yet we have residents reciting of these government roads so i think the sooner we take who is clearly on a really belongs to  in the south my district this is stuff we've been doing all along so the stuff that mr good's as a class once i think there's no problem with taking over we've already done everything and we've got the liability anywhere there's a dispute on the liability you know that the legislation is attempting to excuse the county from liability on this which implies that county has liability as we speak so i think for the roads that are class one i'm fine with getting them off the list and getting them but i don't want to see the state  i think it's fair and very happy to be here discussing this so we don't let it fall to the wayside you know decades and decades that it's been ongoing but i'm trying to understand the recommendation that came out of the report mr good not sure if you or that familiar but it's saying where counties having a population in excess of five hundred thousand persons well that's only one county that we know it it it doesn't pull any of us outer islands from the island of oahu into this i know leader it says to with been revised to include all counties but this is their regards and i'm trying to figure this part out the sale of public highways that formerly were state highways to state so i don't know what does that mean i mean you these are all government roads that they want to  you know it's in limbo technically at first but they don't want it so then we the county say hey we want it so now they're see and if you sell it to private i don't know when he says to be remi tourist two sixty four three basically passed for the seeing county that's why it has over five hundred thousand dollars limit and the the state and  are all different but the city wanted want to know well if we're going to get and we're going to take them we and we want to sell them for whatever reason or somebody wants to buy it we get the money and so that's what this law says it basically says yeah you can have them county and if for some reason you sell them you keep the money not the state and the recommendation from the task force was will give that make that provision for all the counties i don't know if that actually passed yet or  was part of that other bill that died in committee ok but roads really aren't worth all watch so you don't get a whole lot of money for it but it makes sense that we get it but that's that's disputed or what have you but for the most part the scene in cali is over pretty much handle this issue ok yeah i think you so and then i'm just looking at that a lot lately of being coconut road originally during territorial days ok that's and then i guess in reference to who we have to bring that one up but that it was not is not a government road per se to begin with it was privately buil then the dispute happened because it was never built to standards so that's why a road like that would not be on here that's correct and we wouldn't it doesn't fall into the class of all that this dispute is odd that it is somewhat telling us a story if he stays within the government family there's no table issues but if we choose to sell or dispose of the third party there is a title issue if you can we would appreciate yeah i'm reading it now i don't know what it means oh thank you well you you read what many of us read also that falls with you know even in the area of parks i know that's outside of our discussion matter but we have many parts that we control but it has been deal he'll eat over over to the county so when does that exercise our control of it but yet if we want to do something we still got to go back to them so why don't you just give it to us but anyhow ending injury it just puts our people like mr good in a very i don't understand this limbo thing well we'll try to get to the bottom of it i think and i want to first of all thank mr good for his except the very work oh we took was she you have felt to you like that sorry i didn't see the region go ahead third party private you could claim something like you know if i want a bridge i'll give it to you so to be no warranties or anything but again on a quitclaim deal both parties must accept the terms of the legislature and get some clarifications on the questions that that have been brought forward secondly i would like mr good if with your permission to prepare our a list and get it ready for us to look at and see you know the probability of us just taking over and if there's quick claims and other issues that have to be done then at that point in time you know given mr goulden the department the opportunity to get it cleared up because if we get like you said mr white get eighty five percent of these rolls to in care of then we've got a small fraction to deal with it and that makes it so much easier for the department and for us to understand what needs to be done yes mr white you have something we going to get some of that money or we're going to get any money going forward for these roads to be maintained you know we're always in this push and pull over over money and the next item of this is part of that push and  pull but it is a you know it is a big question if they if they have the jurisdiction to the degree where we have to ask permission to do something and that tells me that's their road so i think this is a more more of a web than i and i thought it might be but it is a road that we have to cross and take you that you have to get from one side to the other and i agree and hopefully we'll be able to ascertain somewhat those answers to some of the questions that have been brought up but i also feel like  and again the next subject matter is another push and shove it with the state issue but i just believe that it's come a time where if we can finalize these matters let's finalize it i mean i don't want to get stuck in the mud trying to say oh you've owned it all these years now you want to turn it over to us should you give us money for it because then again we may go back to square one and start issues that we don't want to maybe start so but i will leave it to mr take the compromise with two hundred seventy five roads that will be six hundred seventy five million dollars worth i mean i have no clue i just heard i figure but might be good to have a sense of what this means financially to us if we say we it as additional costs part of the program it's the class twos and threes that we have to analyze and those will be difficult but to me that's another discussion or another set of problems but it is is you know the order overall what more do we need to spend and this is taking the state off the hook for that you know i think that's what you're asking for isn't that right mystical coming but you mean there is a senator and she believes that the counties don't provide the in but if we could add to that one of the other terms that the director is used in the past is lane miles and it's probably a lot of work to get the lane miles on something like this but just a rough estimate would be helpful too i think mr comus concerns because we we can generate the cost off the plane miles well i think we have some idea because i remember so good give me some some numbers as far as les miles so if you would and for  classy and the difficult one is not classic class one but class two he might be a little more difficult to ascertain but i think the class one i you know you probably have a pretty good idea on that one pretty quickly so ok thank you chairman real quick mr good kelly carney i know who it's been in town that's like a very widely used down there but you know what i'm going to ask you because we have a lot of i think if it's something that does your district would you ask him directly you know maybe of research and evaluation department been doing county government  thank them their secretary environmental protection bureau been doing county government visit it being two in two thousand and twelve being two county has a population of eight hundred forty seven thousand people and is greatly promoting tourism sector of their county in recent years tradition in this county has been dominated by agriculture and the fishing fishery industry so i would like to welcome them at this time mr white with your permission of color recess for you to do the presentation of gifts and picture taking this committee will now the meeting of the policy and intergovernmental committee will reconvene we have one final item today and that is the how why the state of hawaii trangia combination tax p i e fifty seven the committee is in the seat of county communication fifteen days to five for from council chair mike white transmitting the matter relating to the state of hawaii transi very much for making this time available chair because the t t continues to be a subject over which we have continuing discussions with the state legislature and  as many people don't know the room chart or the room taxes on hotels are a municipal tax in most places around the country if you dispute me one moment i did not is this is a proposal are not a proposal but a presentation just to get people thinking about whether or not the counties are getting a fair share of the trends in accommodations taxes as the state currently  doles it out so i would really appreciate other members comments and concerns questions at sutter as we go through this so if we can have the next slide please point eight percent and they obviously had to make up that shortfall somehow and so they decided that a portion of the the gap would be made up by increasing the t t and capping the county share and those items took place over a couple of years so in two thousand and nine the date he was increased by one percent to eight point two five and the following year to the current level of nine point two five at the same time county revenues continue to grow but slightly with increasing property values but then next line in two thousand then state revenues began to increase again but remain below two thousand and eight levels so in two thousand and eleven and twelve the t eighty distribution to the counties was  at ninety three million dollars and unfortunately by this time the county property values started to drop and and dropped pretty significantly well joe see in the later slides and the next line where we are today is a state revenues now from day one thousand and ten to two thousand and fifteen have increased by thirty four point four percent or nearly one point eight billion over the year two thousand and ten humility of revenue increases from two thousand and ten to two thousand and fifteen for the state amounted to six point eight billion dollars over the two thousand  base next line in the counties county property tax revenues have grown by eight point eight percent or about one point one hundred twenty two point five million dollars and property values remain four point five billion dollars lower than in two thousand and ten that's for all counties and as you'll see in a and the next well i'll get to the  values in a minute over the same time even though we are currently one hundred twenty two million dollars ahead of where we were in two thousand and ten each of the counties saw a loss in revenues during that same time frame so our cumulative increase from two thousand and ten to two thousand and fifteen at the county level is only thirty one million dollars compared to six point eight billion at the state level so you could have the next sli and you know we get questioned as at the state level well why don't you guys increase your property tax rates you know you guys have control of your own revenues and so you can increase your rates but i think it's important to look at a couple of things there and my wee county is down nineteen point four percent so we're down the most of any of the four counties with hawaii county down eight percent and co i county down about the same amount in property values but our revenues are all up and the revenues are up because on in the city and county of honolulu their effective tax rate per thousand dollars evaluation have increased by six point one percent so to say that the counties are increasing our property tax rates is just not correct so seeing kind of honolulu is going up six point one percent in the far right column a cow deed to address  r revenue shortfalls has increased our property tax rates by twenty five point eight percent how a county has increased their rates by seventeen point seven and co i county fifteen point three so all of us have increased our our rates and the resulting revenue increases are eleven point four percent from two thousand and ten to two thousand and fifteen for the sitting kind of honolulu carry revenues and r p t are up one point four percent oh a county of eight point two and co i county up six point six so that compares pretty dramatically to the state's increase of thirty four point four percent in the next line and what has happened with the the state's adjustments the t t from two thousand and seven  now is that in two thousand and seven the state's share of the t h c amounted to eight point three million dollars that has grown with capping the counties and increasing the tax by two points that has grown the state share to two hundred and five million dollars in two thousand and fifteen at the same time the counties have lost eighty five million dollars of they would have gotten otherwise the counties received two point two million or two point two percent increase over the two thousand and seven allocation so if you take a look at the next  line during the same time and our county share of that two point two million dollars is five hundred eight thousand six hundred dollars in added t eighty funds from two thousand seven to two thousand and fifteen but our expenses just in police fire and parks have gone up by sixty two million dollars in that same period so in a fact we have gone from a position where the visitors were picking up you know a significant share of the cost for these these three departments but in the last eight years the visitors through the state have only provided five hundred eight thousand dollars out of the sixty two million dollar increase and i think it's appropriate for our residents of maui county to expect the t h d to come to at least cover the visitor share of that of those increases so the next line so how do we compare with other jurisdictions and this is a question i've been asking for a long long time but there's a company that called h s put together a study that was published last year and then there's a more recent copy that came out in the in two thousand actually just in september so this is all fresh information but and and i need to point out that this study incorporates all of the taxes on lodging whether it's a state sales tax or highways excise tax whether it's a municipal lodging tax or a special district tax in various cities so when we're going to the next set of numbers it's not just t eighty it's all taxes on lodging which includes sales tax d d and so forth so if we go next line the state of hawaii currently provides seventeen percent of overall taxes on lodging to actually that's that then the neighbor island you'll see on it will receive twenty point four and that's because of the half a percent g d p that they received compared to our peers nationally thirty five percent of the hundred fifty property hundred fifty cities received one hundred percent of taxes on lodging hundred twenty seven of those which includes a thirty five receive fifty percent or more of the taxes on lodging and one hundred forty eight received twenty five percent or more there just to the receive less than twenty five percent and that's us and rhode island so you go to the next line so the top row average accommodations tax rate for one hundred fifty municipalities the the total on the right column is the average tax charged throughout these hundred fifty cities and routes to thirteen point four one percent compared to our thirteen point two five so we're we're right right about average there but where we where we lose ground is the counties and actually the that title should really be municipalities because this is counties and cities that are receiving these taxes but of the thirteen point four points the average of the hundred fifty cities is nine point eight nine point zero eight or nine point one and the state receives four point three percent or three four point three points the current rate for hawaii and this is for the neighbor islands is two point two six of the thirteen point two five and the state is receiving ten point ninety nine or almost eleven percent under the proposed  split of the tea eighty working group of the t t working groups is that the the monies will be collected the tourism special fund will be funded and the convention center the north shore land purchase and deal in our programs will be funded out of the total prior to the the funds being split between the state and and the counties so after spending i don't know kember what the total is but it roughly eighty two million for the special fund thirty one million for the convention center and the other two items  after that we split the remaining amount with forty five going forty five percent going to the counties fifty five percent going to the state so that puts the counties  share at three point zero five and reduces the state's share from ten or eleven percent down to ten point two and so that leaves us with a ranking of one hundred forty nights just you know just at where we were before this all started the proposed split that that i am recommending is that we split the moneys fifty fifty with the state prior to the funding of the special fund tourism special fund for h t a and the convention center and the other projects that would even though that dramatically increases the amount that we would get under the t t working group proposal the counties would increase from one hundred three million dollars to one hundred thirty eight million dollars under a fifty fifty split the state and the county would split the four hundred twenty million dollars so the counties were and have two hundred ten million to split percent next line one of the comments that we get with respect to the being returned to a higher level is similar to the discussions we get in other issues and that i think all of us have heard this well we're not going to give it back to you unless you take more responsibility well my feeling is that we have the responsibility for police fire and parks and just that one responsibility has increased dramatically and cost so while the state folks continue to say well we can't give it back or give it away can't give it away for free the focus that i think we need to have is that you took it when you needed it but when we need it you've not made any adjustments so instead of you feeling like you're giving this away you need to feel like you're giving it back so that's that's the nuts and bolts of my presentation i think that you know one of the challenges is to find cities that are dependent on leisure travel like hawaii is so if you look at places like orlando orlando gets sixty two million visitors a year they have a population of two hundred fifty five thousand so they have about one hundred thousand more residents and we have but they get sixty two million visitors compared to our two point five million visitors they sell three thirty two million room nights in their hotels and other lodging opportunities we generate five and a half million from nights and yet the if we were to receive the counties were to see that the wrong tax that they receive the counties would get the entire four hundred twenty million dollars so we're only asking for half of what anaheim gets and if you look at i'm sorry was it or lando anaheim is in california as you all know they don't have any sales tax and they don't have any state lodging tax either so in anaheim we would be getting the entire amount of of the the wrong tax of four hundred twenty million as well and there are at the state level or a sales tax at the state level that applies to lodging in ten states have both a sales tax and a and a lodging tax at the state level and the average is nine point two percent compared to our thirteen point four twenty six states have a sales tax without any  any lodging tax and then twelve have a lodging tax but don't have a sales tax so there are only ten that have both and the others have one or the other or neither so i think this is this is something that we need to take continue to take a deeper and deeper look into just so that we can establish what's really fair and they and the state rightfully says we have more expenses and you all do but the state also has the most effective tax of any state in the in the country because the rest have sales tax that doesn't apply to services and things of that  sort are excise tax applies to all of it so we have a much larger tax generation capability at the state level than most other states have so i think it's important for us to take a look at this if you look at the services that are provided to visitors once they land it's the counties or provide the vast majority of those services and it's not the state so the working group has done a good job of trying to put together who's spending and what and and so forth but my view is that they should focus on the original deal that was made with the counties which says back back in the early days that ninety five percent of the t eighty one it was for it was just a five percent tax ninety percent of that would go to the counties and so i think they should stick to that promise and that would provide us with almost precisely the numbers i've been sharing so happy to answer any questions and any concerns you think others feel that i should add to the  neglected very badly in the area of what we should be receiving for the services we provide and again rose in limbo was another example just moments ago we discussed again same situation take it over when no money here it's your responsibility and what we still comma is quaint unfunded mandates i mean we have just a whole mess of unfunded mandates from the state and this is just another piece of that several years that i've served on the board and i think even before that yes we stopped them from taking or reducing it two years ago but we got peanuts thrown back at us but is better than nothing at all if you remember we still got that one point one percent and then was two point two overall for the two years but i think it's time where the state's economy has rebounded if you want to use that term and it's time for us to get our fair share and i think this is just a real factual presentation on what exactly this means not only to the state but to the counties and so i thank you mr white for doing that he's really good with numbers and he's meant the whole weekend and in doing this and i really do appreciate that not seriously all joking aside we do so if you have questions i'll start with this time on this side of the table mr carroll do you have any specific questions or suggestions for me still liked and his presentation but we scheduled over the next couple of weeks some meetings with senate and house leadership and also trying to get a meeting with the governor to discuss these matters to present this to them before we go down there in january for the opening of the legislature we hope to get some some dialogue starting very early in the process so yes thank you very much for your efforts through the years for so carol mr okrent for good chair and thank you chair weight for putting the time into this and you definitely know your stuff here so thank you for bringing it clearly to us on your slide oh there's numbers i guess the second to last page i guess is just the proposed split mistaken only gets like one percent and they get three million so it's actually well i believe it's three million that they get that's actually less than one percent now there are three million has been a fixed amount for a number of years i belie him yeah and that in itself is a sad figure we definitely need more as we all know the do a lot to protect our natural resources that help our tourism and economy but so then from very currently we have two point five after and then we sort of split up the you know they read the remaining share i have but i have those numbers ok but the the the challenge is that this this particular page so it is a little confusing because these percentages are not percentages of the t t alone there are percentages of all the taxes on lodging ok so when you look at the two point two percent that's a little confusing but i couldn't figure out a hardest split apart because i've got to compare so that the first part of the presentation is comparing what we used to get but to put it in person under the under the current breakdown with the with the county's getting one hundred three million dollars maui county share is twenty three million for eighty four under the original breakdown of the t t my always twenty two point eight  percent share of what the counties get would have grown to forty two almost forty three million dollars so that would go a long ways to pain at least a good portion of the increase in the police parks and fire costs under the t t working group proposal my county would grow from the twenty three four or twenty three five the we're getting now to thirty one million six under the fifty percent proposal the amount would grow to forty seven point nine million dollars just a final and finish that off so the combination of the four point three or four point six three that you see on the screen actually represents that combined total of the the counties getting two hundred ten million dollars and just taking that number as a percentage of the total t t n g t that's how we get to the four point six three percent the remainder of the t t and all the g t goes to the goes to the state which represents the eight point six three ok all right very good thank you  in perspective as far as actual dollars you did give some but what is the total t t that is generated by all the counties and it's about four hundred twenty one million i know that that's why i brought up orlando and anaheim right because they have a tax that they keep all to themselves so there's a room tax in both of those places and they keep it all and it's because of fire police and other city and county responsibilities to take care of the visitors once they get there of course and a high man orlando have a huge amount of  there doesn't appear to be support for the half a percent for the neighbor island counties ok so the this proposal is simply going back to them and saying we're not talking about the g g we're just talking about the t billion are why don't we have to four hundred thirty million i have not asked well first of all the i think our delegation has been supportive of our concerns in the past they have not been present of the new information and how we compare to other counties i don't think they have been presented the numbers showing that while the state received an increase of one hundred ninety six million the county's got two point two so there are a lot of things that our delegations not aware of yet that are in this in this presentation so i don't know where they're coming from yet you i appreciate the update from chairman white and he continues to show and prove to me that counties across the nation that he showed between two thousand and ten and fifteen about the effect of property tax rate and the impact one of the great things that we we should re increased cost to us is collective bargaining things that the state to its ratio of votes to do contracts continually puts the counties in at this advantage disadvantages position chairman because of the amount of votes they have to pass any collective bargaining agreement a lot of times i swear they don't take into account the county's positions on the ticket currently or twenty five years down the road you know it makes a difference to us and so i would just say that there's many things that the state can say the county can do this the county can do that but we're taking it in the i would agree i don't think it's right we tax tax which we allow under this structure oh see if what i am interested in of course at this time chairman you know those you have mr white has represented us very responsibly my concern is lack of state leadership especially in the governor's office and in the administration as well as kerry taking this program of the visitation is not good enough and that's what they're doing the governor can tout he saved us a billion dollars over his for a few well you know what i wish she spent that on hospitals in education this where the people want their money to go let's say when it improving it giving our people a better health care system that we can depend on something that education that the parents can feel that if kids are getting top quality education the employers are everything on all the other revenue sources to us part a lot of other things to us because i think we can do a lot a lot of good in this county provided we have the right tools i for i don't support the have better leadership better vision and to see where the county seat because why should this county and others to sister counties pay for the convention center we've paid for it we helped build it i think it's wade i think our delegation has been as open in a supportive as possible with information here and demands they have to balance within the state programs before people are in our county mr there's a lot of good we can do chairman with the right resources they can we need to fight for what is ours again it's not what the state is giving free this is our revenue we generate our property is generated our residents work hard to get the visitor to come in and pay those our resources i have a great discomfort that the state has no clue where the money actually is coming from people where we're going to put those new revenues what they can expect out of those new revenues and hold those people make decisions accountable i think to it we have a reasonable community or reasonable tax base and if we explain well and tell them  because i think this is something that is right for us and i'm going to continue to support mr white on this matter and i can tell you as your chairman of budget i will not consider posting the general  time to make those systemic changes and put things back in our court but give us the revenue to do it i think we can do it more effectively and this time dead dad be allowed but again we have to go to the powers to be in and make those changes and you know that sometimes that castle down in a water hole is not an easy castle to breach it's easy it's interesting sharing those that do not truly support another constitutional convention is mostly within the state structure yes absolutely thank you mr white had mentioned that there were promises made from misty back in the day for ninety percent was going to be retained by the county and i was wondering if i could see ing the term promises but i'd like to at least seen the legislative timeline of how this came about two from the past two current and which representative pushing for this state and which were not more unfair for the county the other one would be at least having the maui delegation be on the floor and having us ask them questions or even having this presentation presented to them on the floor and getting their input and i think that we're dealing with a case an entity that is quite difficult to move and i think that if we look at the numbers of wahoo representatives out in our representatives there are elected in the labor islands so if we can collectively get the neighbor islands delegations to all be in support at least they can you know have some type of numbers to move it i think i don't think that it's going to be that effective if we approach it from the outside and i think we've got to really put the pressure on our delicates our representatives to really move on it because they're the ones that cast their votes  want one starting point is to have them tied on the floor they've got to know that this is a party issue you know it's not something every time i run into one of them they kind of sites yeah i know they came here we played too but you know you got to answer the question and do the right thing and i think they've got to say either yes or no in front of the camera and let the constituents know where they stand so that's my little i guess on the soapbox speech as well thank you thank you for your christmas wish because i don't think it's coming but you know and i think we have in the past try to get our legislators hear their time schedule some time make sure it's really steadfast is that all the neighbor island counties must be united all the mayors must be united and there is the chink in the armor there is the problem and if you don't know what i'm talking about just listen to our mayor ok i rest my case i'm not going to go any further ok so there is that challenge the county councils the chairs are pretty united have all the power but to to mr guzman's question there is the t t working group report provides all the legislative histories and so we can the hotel industry said we'll agree to a two percent tax as long as it's earmarked for at the convention center and of course all of us on the neighbor island said to me we don't really want to pay for the convention center but we went along to support on a loop when the when it by the end of session percent tax became a five percent tax on the earmark for the convention center went away completely so all went the general fund so subsequently those of us from the neighbor islands went down and said we're not getting the convention center so we want our share of the tax so that's when the determination was made that  five percent would stay for the state for their handling of it and ninety five percent would be given to the counties and that's when the current split given oahu forty four point one percent of the total and now getting twenty two point eight percent and beguiling getting ten point nine and co i getting ten point one percent that was all done as a lot of you know is that so a lot of this has firm because the counties have never fought amongst themselves as to what that split should be and i don't think we will you know we and we won't now the only thing that has changed is that the tax has been increased twice after that and the state has simply helped themselves to a much greater share and so the t t working group report maps out all out in very clear sequence well you will make sure that that is forwarded to every member of the council so that they would have that that report is finalized right because i know i was told well i'm not sure it's i know they had a meeting had a meeting this week i'm not so i don't know what whether what we have is a draft but whatever whatever we have was you know we'll send the most current because i was under the understanding that  that was just a draft and the final report was going to come out of this model and next month it could be so designed a standard it's a it's a draft yeah so i just want everyone to understand it what we will be sending use probably a draft ok legislation on the record for these are quotes from the committee report your committee agrees that more that a more equitable method or sharing state revenues with the counties must be provided a stable and continuing source of revenue will enable the counties to provide for their needs currently the counties must come before the legislature each year to request financial assistance this process discourages long range planning your committee also knows that tourism is the largest industry in hawaii and many of the burns imposed by tourism fall on the county's increased pressures of the visitor industry mean greater demands on county services many of the costs providing maintaining and upgrading police and fire protection parks beaches water road sewer systems and other tourism related infrastructure are being borne by the counties you could many fines that sharing th the revenue with the counties by distributing the revenue among counties in proportion to the population of each county would be best accomplis would best accomplish the intent of this measure in an oh man are you committee further find that this message method will provide the counties with predictable flexible and permanent source of permanent source of revenue this is legislative because it should be based on revenue generated by the county understood i'm just i didn't from law i know i know what you said but i want to clarify k c because that's been a bone of contention but by by many of us is that a fact is what the different counties generate the matches population because we're getting twenty two point eight and the population on the big island is i think a little higher than our guard yet so there there was something in between something else in the in the  i don't want there to be a division between the counties so you know we just need to be happy with the distribution as it is and that's what i'm trying to say i don't want that to be really the predication upon population and i think that was what i was trying to  know i think another you know mr couches comments brought up the fact that you know visitor industry is a very strong industry and in this report h p s report which shows that hoey generates the highest level of state taxes on lodging at the municipal taxes are listed under another report by you know by c but what's interesting is that as i mentioned earlier there's there's not a lot that that have lodging taxes but the state avoid generates over five hundred million dollars in total the next is texas and if you just look at four cities in texas austin san antonio dallas and houston they have one hundred seventy two thousand rooms in just four cities that compares to our total for the state of seventy two thousand so in thousand more than we do so there number two in the generation because they have a lodging tax but no sales tax on lodging if you drop down to the tenth largest state  generator of lodging tax yet one tenth of what we generate there is fifty six million out of our and we generate five hundred sixty six million in two thousand and fourteen so again what i'm finding is every angle i look at this from says it would be we're being fair asking for fifty percent i totally it i totally agree with my colleague mr okama that we should get the whole thing because that's the way most of the cities are set up so but being somewhat realistic asking for the whole thing is i'm sure not going to fly but anyway  the other thing that we need to remember is that we are impacted the counties revenues are basically impacted by property values the state income is generated by economic activity and so when the economy went down we were still ok but then we took a much larger hit in our economic base for taxation than the state did but did they come to our res we county increased property tax rates by twenty five percent just to break even where you know are we're collecting one point four percent more than we did in two thousand and ten so we just we need to make sure that they keep realizing that our economic base for taxation remains below where we were in two thousand and ten by four point five billion dollars ok thank you mr boyd and i think that that that really tops the morning off as far as where we want to go with this and again as i stated earlier a check is a total part of this i mean all the four companies are behind of it including a law degree they're not worried about the other aspect about trying the g d that's not part of the conversation and it's not one or the other this is our focus on t v anything in keeping out all could be or completely drop us down as it is were saying let's not rock the boat too much and upset anybody really because we are they can just as well drop our current i think all of us know that anything is possible yes at the legislature but the purpose of getting an early start on this is for our community to understand what the issue is for our community to get the the numbers from us that make the case that we should be getting more than we're getting i mean just the fact that we've had increases of sixty two million dollars in police fire and parks over an eight year period and at the same time we've only gotten five hundred thousand dollars back in th he tells me that the state legislature is more than willing to put the cost the visitors share of the cost of police fire and parks on the back of our residents not not the visitor so i think the more we talk about it and you know and i would love to hear when you talk to other people in the community i love to hear what their feedback is because i have i have much more information that i haven't put in this and i made some notes as to what we're what will add but i'd be interested our i don't know where the time we disappoint because we were against a crunch because the legislatures were putting up in about three weeks four weeks and you know we need to be i think we have enough right now but let me give you this perspective a number of business people have come to me and said you know constantly we keep raising real property tax rates and the values go up on there and they are second only to the resort or resort area as far as rates are concerned and so they did take a beating each and every year and these are a lot of small businesses that employ a lot of our every day blue collar workers and some white collar of course you know and these are the businesses that are being impacted and they don't get the wreck revenue from visitor industry their construction retail and retail sometimes get some but not all that much you still depend on the resilience especially if you talk essential marwijk most of them west insult my we you know our country would be similar now you get some but i mean you know proportionately this is where the tax base is is lines up so there's a lot of issues here and i believe if we get our fair share that does take care of all of the challenge on not all some of the major challenges we face we don't have to try it on unreasonable burden on these businesses and that's where we've thrown a lot of this over the years if i sat here for all now this could mean my tenth budget and the vast majority we try to avoid our residents are homeowners but we put it on other areas and a lot of our small businesses that really employ a great number of employees this county you know i know that weston was about seven hundred when i could i did security and i did all the data on how many employees we had we level seven hundred employees and that was the list and now you times that by all the various properties that's a lot of employees and many of them go into that category of small businesses are restaurants you know tasty crust that's used that as an example as a small business right or we go down here a lot of small restaurants see and you know i mean i go on and on and on i we could go  for ever i want to carry on augury on but i'm saying the profound effect by not getting what we should be what we should be getting what we fairly deserve has a profound effect on a lot of our businesses and i  feel that it's right we will also offer that to the other counties as well thank you but again we've got to start moving because we don't have time you know if this was maybe three months ago we would have had some time but we know we'll  use the service i c s as backup information as we go down to our legislators and and the governor's office and we want to include the governor's office because let me be honest the governor now was one of those who was one of our hindrance in our g deep product program two years ago because he was the ways and means if i'm not mistaken he was ways and means chair at that time so there's a lot of history here and i think we really are on the right track and i want to thank mr white for all his work and all of your money now you know us all shared a lot of insights and i think we need to continue to move if you have other ideas you have other suggestions feel free to let us know and because we want to carry the banner and we want to sound united when we go there that's very very important i want the legislature to hear it from all of us not just from one county but all the counties and i think right now we're very unified as far as a sack and most of our members were very unified so the problem i have again is the next level but i won't dwell on that we've got to move on we can't we can't sit there and wait to get them aboard with us we need to move right now so if sometimes i may be hard nosed in pushing things along i always want to get the job done and i apologize if i offend anyone please forgive me it's the season of forgiving so that's why i'm asking for your forgiveness not only giving but forgiving