all right welcome to the south burlington development review board for a tuesday october third two thousand and seventeen the agenda is  lable for those who would like to see copies there's also a sign up sheet going around please make sure to sign the sign up sheet otherwise you're not here if the if the item comes back up for  consideration you need to be here in order to be a party to future deliberations directions on emergency evacuations if there's an emergency that you can either exit the way you came in or there are exit doors right here and will meet in the south which is right there and others will make god go through the building make sure everyone is ok second of them on the agenda additions deletions or changes in the order of agenda items does anyone have any addition so he has a lot of things going on as life and we wish him all the best so but we are looking for another member as soon as we can find that so those of you who have an interest in the  and conflicts of interest the first time we've heard this conflict of interest mark no we have market still no video he says bill no video i should pay attention to text you know video get the right six nine two seven five nine four six one is the code and we just staff on a number of sending issues and out of all that only it appears that we are very close in regards to at least staffs review of the position of the application only there are still a couple of items that we like to go over with the board but perhaps the best way to basically work through staff report and to come up on each item as appropriately is to actually review the staff report and look for those magical rate areas so that being the background if you like will follow through starting it i am number one and tried guidance to the board on each one of those as far as the applicants position the other thing that we just want to point out is that we have a very hearty crowd here tonight  i think from many of the comments that the board of our staff has really received so far that there are concerns with future ideas on things one in phase two of self village a reminder to the board that this is part of phase three  that there will be a time in place for discussions on phase one and phase two perhaps you may want to talk about phase one phase two tonight because your time but phase three is what the application is about tonight so we'll leave that up to you for your discussion and  so marlon we worked with mario as recently as this morning on a couple of the items and marlin to jump in whenever you like but nonetheless we have no problem with item one in regards to really a formal adoption  the single family home waivers that had been provided on previous favorite phases the issue came up as to whether the duplex in the tribal x billions were considered to be part of the single family weavers and we would always practice that is in the past but to formalize it there is a request that the waivers for single family homes also be adopted for duplex and tri plex buildings so at this point in time it appears the staff is supportive of that and we hope you are also ok so here there have been standard conditions at the border the city has applied to many projects as it relates to proposed development areas in the vicinity of what limbs we have proposed one very similar to this but except it basically adds in the extra components that if you remember back there is porsha the original south village master plan included a restoration program and in that it has certain practices within what land areas we want to do basically make sure that the condition for approval recognise that as well as the conditions that are set forth in the state whether the permit so to make sure there aren't any ambiguity is between the statement and the other things that have been previously approved application package the applicant did provide responses and it appears that the assistant fire marshall has indicated that they are acceptable to the department so we're all happy with that and as long as they're happy then then that leaves the life safety issues we have that i am for working with the planning and zoning director where they release the staff as review sidewalk issues with  the planning in the department of public works director justin rob do and this may be an opportunity to bring up on screen a site plan at least shows out here so we did have a hearty discussion previously in regards to the concepts for sidewalks on both sides of the road and in this particular portion of village this is you know if these three this is on the far western portion there are a total of six slots three on each side of the road and so what is part of the original approval for what we call phase three hey that's basically from chipman to be just a little bit past the proposed bridge now it's an approved bridge  for crossing this particular stream we are proposing three single family lots on either side of the road this is consistently with the original concepts in the master plan and there is a recreation path that is proposed to be constructed along what we call the south side of the road with north being straight up on this plan and the applicant has proposed a sidewalk system that would service the three locks on the north side of the road and the reason we have done that is that the been previous issues with appeals of approvals of phase two in which we had started with much of that project with the sidewalks on the one side of the road and ultimately one of the residents felt that it was inconsistent with the original concept set forth in phase one so that it woods and sidewalks on both side of the road so ultimately that project these two was redesigned and out of all that experience the applicant  here chose to move forward with a design that had those same amenities on both sides of the road in this particular case happens the recreation path that serves as a multiuse path on the south side and for this short section a traditional sidewalk that would basically service these three homes and ultimately bring them to a mid lock crossing at this particular location and further out the last time we met with the board there was a discussion of perhaps extending the sidewalk all the way to what is ultimately called douglas street and the concept there being how to create a loop that would allow public works to basically maintain both sides of the road one of the challenges that is located on the north side of the road is this archaeologically sensitive area so outside and in one thing that the project has been consistent with is where there has been no homes outside of recreation path that we haven't put in sidewalks you know no home no need for sidewalk so that being background we created what ultimately was a maintenance loop we had always utilized to basically allow streets at sidewalk or cross walk locations we basically created the opportunity for them to come back to the main clean main maintenance core door on that side so we felt that that was in keeping with the intent or concerns of public works despite our narrative and this particular plan public works has come back and said you know we would prefer there not be something on that side and i can  understand but that being the background we still come back with a request for the board to consider of a sidewalk on the north side of the road because of again characteristics of self knowledge and what we're looking to maintain so that is our initial introduction or reintroduction of this issue to the board so mike so i'd like to hear from the board on this  loop isn't the way the city plows psylocke they plow the block and then next block without coming back so the loop doesn't really get a very much because it's sort of you have to get them there and then don't five talks about detailing of pavement marking systems and i think at this point in time we would be acceptable to conditions that the final details be worked out with public works in regards to how all of the streets and and safety markings are handled we took a stab at it but it looks like public works would like some additional communications in that project moving on to item six this is discussion point is related to the original master plan approval condition eighteen in which the applicant is required to pay to the city twenty thousand dollars in support of intersection improvements or traffic calming improvements located within dorset farmers and the applicant is obviously has always been an understanding of that in her approval proposed in staff report we felt if we added a couple more words could insure that or help allay fears for the duis the farm's residents that this money will actually be fully allocated towards those two purposes and that it the at the end of the second sentence a second line i should say it's the applicant shall make a we just change the word to the twenty thousand dollars payment to the city of south burlington and then insert associated with the master plan condition request item nine let's talk a little bit more about master plan i'm going to let you talk about that one if you can read that out loud because the master plan has been amended so that the recreation path is now located along midland avenue and not allowing the southern most slots in phase three staff recommends the board modify the conditions of the recreation path to construct to the for same time as midland ave connection which is required market rate unit and be substantially complete at the closing of the two hundred fifty market rate unit for six months which ever is later and we're in agreement with that condition so can we get an overall out a solution on  we go back to the one you just had up there keep going just for reference just off the plan and this is what we call middle and avenue one plans this is middle and avenue actually as named within the doors of farms neighborhood and this is the what lynn crossing that ultimately leads into the heart of phase three b and we reviewed this portion earlier and one of the challenges of emergency responses is that if for example prior to this road all being completed all the way through if a new initial phase calls for just these homes and the supporting roadway system and utilities to service this area and we've named this middle and consistent with ultimately the big picture and emergency response comes out and comes from sources street side comes in and says hold can go that way roads not in place so one particular solution this is called chipman street right here is just on a temporary basis to name this shipment until ultimately middle and is built all the way across to where hoping that there aren't any issues because the plan is to build all the roadway all the way across as part of the initial phases of construction but if something falls apart in the middle there is give them robin's number when the you're moving to item eleven on page seventeen stuff recommends of the board grant a waiver to reduce the minimum roadway with from twenty four feet to twenty feet for the private roadways and the second senate staff also recommends the board require the option to narrow the roadway to eight hundred feet at the one crossing so when we're looking up on the board i made reference to let alone crossing just west of dorset farms that particular area was designed as being twenty feet wide that's twenty ok so that deals with the what we call the alleys and the with twenty foot with is consistent with what we used for alleys on phase one and staff was correct in the fact that it was appropriate to formally seat that waiver from the board discussed how to ensure that until and unless the african receives approval for a modification under a master plan amendment that the requirements of eighteen point two three are met staff in the applicant have agreed to recommend a condition in this phase three y that would make to either be in single family or the townhome style unit mark dave marshall here one thing that we haven't shared with you was only what the goals are for the entire three phases of the south milledge project and when you actually look at it as a whole and then distribute both geography geographically as well as by unit type what our goal is is to basically satisfy those particular components but staff wanted to make sure that at least there was a placeholder in phase three in that not the entire sixty units was developed as market rate so that we didn't come back and say oh gee we missed that opportunity and now we have to put everything in one place this is really got to keep in mind that the applicant hasn't has not exceeded the two hundred sixty nine units that are allowed without having to do with any affordability it's only once we exceed that particular point that we have to show you show the board some needs of distribution it may turn out that we only go ten units beyond to sixty nine and you've already got six more many more proportionate proportion wise than what's required so this was kind of the middle ground and rick arge to something that the applicant technically didn't need to do but out of good faith chose to do so in support of this particular discussion point so that's where the applicant has come from and we're hoping that the board would recognize those background issues also soon i think with with a little bit of language here we could we could understand this is a placeholder until the master plan but that our expectations are still the same as they were before there would be even distribution  we'll have many more discussions before you even get to that particular point so at this point that that was the intent was to show good  faith fourteen this talks about phasing and just a quick reminder when you're doing a subdivision there is no time frame on when single family homes need to be built or zoning permits applied for but when it comes to any other type of commercial building war multifamily building there is a requirement and what the intent of the fourteen was was to basically provide masterplan timing opportunities where it creates a window of time in which the multifamily buildings can come in rather than the six month standard or perhaps one twelve months and outside of what was originally published in regards to the reference location marlay do you want us to introduce the wording or the modifications of the originally published description of the location  and the only place we have any buildings that would qualify for a master plan timing approaches that was to multi to twelve like to buildings they happen to fall in phase three so we're just hoping that that particular description of clusters a indeed which two if you just keep it there you go that's good that's it and then we also have access to the things he's an operator ok so in that little purple balloon is the vertical storage wireman and in addition to that we build a storage locker for every unit in every unit will be conveyed to the simple from top to bottom so unit owner will own their parking spaces and each parking space will have it covered cage which provides a secondary so we believe under the long term storage that we're actually doing double duty and on the short term storage there will be two bike racks for a minimum four bikes each on the surface and that's my fault in the fact that the plans that showed graphics are proposed by crocs did not get properly submitted to staff is part of the package and we are subject to  concerned about this was that if you scroll down to the cut the proposed long term storage it right there those guys look like hooks do they provide so i don't even see your books comment was that it wasn't clear to us whether the proposal matched the criteria or not that it definitely didn't but that we didn't understand it so i think what i'm hearing is that we need to work out the details to staff satisfaction and we appreciate is that could come through as a condition in support of making sure that we are fully compliant with the  questions by the board  part of the package it's at the beginning one point two yes to thi so you can see this superimposed on what you've been used to seeing putting aside all the contours and wetland hatching associated with the project you can see some great hatching and that is basically  located along common property line mr valley and heading out in the north northwesterly direction this is what the court creek called for new guards to either no build zones as far as vertical structures or whether it be limited build zones that represents these hatched areas in which the agreement in the court decree called for the allowance of certain types of interest doctor that being the were considered to be one of those things that are acceptable again the original concept being wildlife core door and also visual obstructions so that in the background this is the original court to crease superimposed on the plan we've always designed around it and that being in the background we worked very hard to ensure that the six slots fully complied with that particular requirement and like ways it w the proposed location of the two multifamily buildings originally the last plan had three in this location but ultimately the consent decree with court eliminated one of those and that's that's what we have today could continue our conversation thank you very much appreciated sources gets planned so no need to swear you in and if you'll walk you have submitted a revised plan and so you have submitted a revised flight plan in my mind time you go it is i don't think it makes a lot of sense to look at detail at that because you're going to have some changes for a couple city attorney's response is yes recommendation condition would have a clear nexus in the project as it could leave your traffic in packs of cetera so so it looks to looks to us as though we do have the opinion however you have to be able to show that both connections are warranted in other words both connections are needed in order for i believe to your choir is to build a second connection for instance if there was so much traffic that you needed the second side the mill connection to alleviate a traffic concern thanks clearly the city would have a clear nexus to inquire us to build it similarly as if it was an off site traffic improvement  show that we were lowering the level of service at that intersection then you could require us to perform whatever was needed at that intersection in our view this is the same so much as a traffic study is something that shows that yes record and the answer is yes someone else this is above essential nexus is less obvious but enough to recommend particularly so there you go less obvious but enough to recommend number three do we have there needs to be a clear nexus and that's where that information could be obtained or not so that's where we're going to wait for the applicant's study that they just indicated they were going to address and then the board could  against the additional impervious surface that you're creating the additional impact to lapland and the additional impact to the quarter that the board worked hard to widen the path to prove  as you mentioned there in the goal where there was to create a larger open space that we had before which are which we've done by i think it's an improvement you know i think you're i think your loop before we all wondered you know how does that really work or was effective and it obviously was effective to get the dig to not make it a dead end street but i think i think you've got a different problem you're right though it could be it could be a small private plane yes but i think you're measuring close to three hundred fifty or four hundred feet based on your on your scale so you may have a little bit of cutting to buffers we have talked of the month state land folks that they will allow that as long as it's done as a boardwalk so what we would what we would probably recommending is that you know places where you know it's going to be about one hundred fifty foot strip a public show that will well actually constructed this portion of the path also so that you'll have a multi state path that goes from site of the one you know all the way through and makes a connection all the way ou so that's our current proposal keeping in mind that our current approval that we are fully permeated you know there is no there is no connections and the past just ends at the intersection the field to to minimize the amount of boardwalk we have and minimize the impact on the wetland week we basically want to show it going to try to go as direct as possible you know across that space guys expect that you won't have any more changes but you know we do want to listen be respectful to the needs of other committees and so on so are the questions comments from the board  get to summerfield and if i'm calculating this right i'm only talking about one hundred fifty four units when we say fifty four duplex should i interpret that as being hundred eight individual families while and also let the open spaces be truly open spaces just allowing the nature of plants and sort of things in the summer to grow the animals need for nutrition you know maybe take you down in the fall but make true in space and for for the wildlife so again you know open space isn't just a space that's not  to it's not hard for wildlife and any road that makes it difficult to cross over we have to be you know we're trying to say we're going to do something by having open space  thinking about whether it makes sense so this ingestion we had in our letter of course was to take some of those units in a way that makes it true poor and just let it go wild in the way it's supposed to be and the animals that we're already seeing there and the birds that were easy nasty can continue to be there and really truly make an open spaces and protect our nat resources so i require that the developers keep an open mind when they speak with national resources tomorrow about that i think it's a selling point actually community and for those neighborhoods to have you for people this is straightening it up a little bit making it a little more easier to go through and again there are a lot of children who live in somerville too so that we're going to be  i guess if they're worried about the wire like order of the connection shouldn't be made between one two because actually with or to me it really needs to big and where i think you've shown that it should be then that eastern western connection should be made it seems to me that cider mill road isn't being extended because of the cost there's really no while it's going through that section right there i've been there long enough to watch it that really is going to be built anyways the next development comes through so from my standpoint i think that needs to be made if studied both the additional drilling units and additional checks that would come in that would be faster experts to to determine what they what their best judgment is best mates are set the school lessons currently have a hard time with summerville they have to go around and try to do three point turn at the end of the bed and if they don't go around the loop system with sufficient housing they are in the time and so sometimes the residents a think i'm i just don't know i've read it three times and i can't tell if i just misunderstand it but the access from heinsberg really has to be installed before more than fifty units are buil broke first and that after the fifty thousand is built then you make the connection from in to set or mill one and i think that's what's conveyed in that but i wasn't one hundred percent sure when i read it that makes sense forty nine you know for the first forty nine you know finds are grown after fifty units are built there will be an additional connection to summerfield right just so