familiarity come now it could have come from the letter that he intended to withdraw it could have come from a phone conversation he had with the lawyer and of course we don't have the anomaly of the notice of ruling in august time here was time right suppose we were to agree with you that the judge of the good continues well then i think the matter has to be remanded if harper all issues he gives we start from scratch is that i think there's no question that's all they can be  exceptional circumstances for resettlement is another highly complex issue which we believe is you know that we believe that the court the r j made substantial errors and virtually all of these issues that he ha to address either applying the wrong legal standards or not even addressing the issues either one of those admissions i would assume that would be sufficient for this court to read than to have the i j a get it right but all of these issues almost take a second seat to the fact that this this man was not intitled was not enabled through to have counsel present its case now when he showed up on in september at the continued hearing it would have been highly appropriate to inquire what did he know and when did he know that drove the idea took the position that he have a lot of time to get another lawyer the i j a says well you're here today by yourselves or are you ready to proceed with your case and represent yourself and the answer is if you grant me some time i'll try to find another lawyer but that the idea continues well sir i cannot continue your case because you didn't do what you were required to do we can't wait forever for you to get somebody to represent you and finally concluding his statements on the issue apparently ignoring the fact that he only ruled on the motion to withdraw about three weeks earlier and apparently unaware that his notice of ruling doesn't indicate w right or her right to counsel and and or whether there are circumstances in the record that reflect that the alien is simply not in a position to retain counsel or is just seeking  response to the r j he's questioning on those planes the fisher denies that he says that's not true i did cooperate it was a question of getting the documents i needed so aback that even if the lawyer  period of time in the middle of that procedure he was informed by the counsel that he had retained his attorney by the turning that is attorney no one wanted to represent he was not incarcerated he's a highly educated individual merits here he certainly could've you know written that's all it's normally done in every court in this country scuse me i need more time i've tried i know i know i have a scheduled hearing on the day in question but i need a little more time surely nothing was done before that  begin so you can go out and seek have some time to receive counsel and he did so he said this is the only time i'm going to allow that to happen and also the fact that his attorney and his client this not get along and now that we know that starts a new a new set of proceedings i think you're you would have a lot more force if the immigration judge's order clearly told him that i'm going to allow the lawyer to withdraw here you're on your own or you better get a veil and any competent lawyer i'm convinced would have have done so i would like to close because i know i only have a moment here in our brief we started the have serious doubts as to how knowing and intelligent the waiver of voluntary departure was moreover we are convinced that his asylum case will be more advantageous leakers entered by the pain and we are not in favor of an agency