model and following the end of the war he came to the it ited states where he lives now became a citizen and now currently my client complied with all the regulations rules that procedures provided to provide for his entitlement to these benefits did he go to a service department correction this correction board could that possibly be the respondent says he should go to a service department but he doesn't dave the service department the only service department that ever had eddie jurisdiction over other words you're not arguing are you that that we should simply say if a claim is made up we can't find the records we can still for the fun what i'm saying is that the claimants evaded detailed documentation  is that the policy was based on two fundamental errors that were unknown at that time but were brought forth to skates airdrome for one is that the determine whether an applicant a filipino map look and is a veteran or is not a veteran and we have proven that and there's been no dispute over this that the database is so flawed argument with them they were not playing pieces of paper and we don't know that it's not in the record before us well that's why i have are i will check the appendix because if they are not on page forty so what is it that you want to know what i want what i want you to do is to review the existing procedures rules and regulations governing the review of documents submitted documentation and there's uplink a should to the regional office in this particular case it was transferred to the regional office in middle the regional office of the nola did not look at the document did gould sent them to the b r c and sent them to the regional office to be at the board specifically said in its decision that it had looked at all the records it had reviewed all of them and found that none of them were it shows verification by the service department which is d the m p r seeing instead of looking at everything that's a minute they look at their own database understanding that that database is flawed and then say if you're not in our database we're not going to even consider all these other things that you gave us if that bailable of all the veterans and they have a they have a complete list and in p r c looks to see who's on i don't know who sent it was complete i mean i don't think you need to overstate the record i think the record as saying is many times that they him that no the n p r see says on their website and they explain that what they do is just search the existing records they don't add to the records they can't change the records so if you if somebody seeking to change their records they go to no there's not a there's not because there's not a that conclusion isn't reached because in many cases somebody can go to the b r c and they don't fall through the cracks the m p r see verifies that they their names on the list and they first various aliases they do all reason we explicitly said in our brief that mr go could go to the board and ask for the board to assess these records now there's there's no particular reason though that the v a would in all cases say when they're asking the actually in p r c to disperse and serve would automatically say if the answer is no you can go to the board because they're not all cases so the veteran think he had sufficient information to convince the board to change the records and then again it wouldn't that seem to make sense but that the response would be and p r c can't verify it so your only avenue of possible relief here before the v a explains to mr goh that he has a another possible avenue of relief well mr go with ably represented by counsel and so this is not a situation where mr goh comes in and needs to know about a whole other avenue of hear hearing you say has to lose because he didn't take this significant as a news release and so it is every possible well in this case are the arguments he was presenting is that the court needs to overturn soria at the v a needed to do to do or do these documents itself and that was the argument that we were presented with and that was the argument at the veterans court as well so all along he wasn't saying what can i do records the answer still not so we don't know exactly what the in p r c did but the presumption is the government does what it's supposed to do applied that the government that the m p r he did with supposed to do it looked at all the records and didn't find here it's it's set to the side so this is a situation for mr go is if he believes that he has sufficient documentation he can go to the board of correction military records he can ask the board and he can think judicial review of that determination should it be adverse to him so he has avenues aren't done he has he has a place to go the place just isn't the v a because there are regulations in this court's decision it's already explicitly said the v a is not where he needs to go say a manual goes today is not shown on the official records and archives and file a dissenter therefore your request cannot be favorably considered nowhere is there a it all they say is affirmatively their decision is based upon their records right but that's what they have to do that's what they have said who says that they have to review our records state didn't do that this is this is the problem in this case the v a says send everything to the at the our cities we send it to the edge p r c they come back to has he actually said you don't shop in iraq or why didn't you go to the  point we went to did normal course of appeals as far as i understand it if we go to the board of veterans appeals for the are all we appealed then to the court of appeals for veterans claims which we did and what did the court of appeals for veterans say they said even though they didn't see their response letter the ad p r c that they did review this that maybe they did because they didn't say they did this is the argument that they made and by the way the responded didn't disagree with the basis of our appeal letter that that reasoning was flawed you disagree they could go on the board of military corrections right now i let me give you an analogy of finances right and proper the process you followed was correct but there is an alternative after you know if they don't find you in the database which is to say we've got information that shows that that gap in the entitlement it was an honorable thing to do it was the proper thing to do the v a is an advocate for and veterans said they're the ones who have the responsibility of taking information supplied by a veteran and assisting them and making their entitlement that that analogy should apply directly to the case for these veterans here who cannot