comments this may take off on the looking at the the congregation out there anyone want to address anything that's not on the agenda seeing the move on those one point five three acres into basically point seven five acre lots both what's meet our minimum half acre along with all the necessary for labor magic with area for setbacks t piece of property instead asked them to dedicate some right away along mabel lane shows with that being said planning staff as well as play a commission recommended we waive the discussion just a question mr sick for my edification if they give us an additional right away in the front does that affect the setback for the house yet it moves back me was vice chairman they were the same folks that were the chairman of vice chairman last year shelter one in the park itself that it's been demolished and we have a new one that's being built right now in progress here one of the hot items that came up  several times with a couple different organizations baseball and softball was the words were rosters where people were rostered on teams that weren't necessarily in the township and that's  kid didn't live in peter's township and this happened both i believe with the baseball association and the softball association we had both groups in over the period of the quarter and talk to them about what was going on not sure if this is the this is a reiteration of a previous policy and that's in the packet for later on this evening but that was probably the hot item for the for the for our board also talked about naming rights policy during the quarter and that also is on the agenda for tonight other things that are cooking there we had a we have a  increase cap of five percent for year over year and we ran into an issue with the lacrosse association and they had their fees moved up more than that five percent so we brought them in to talk to them and we believe that was just a simple misunderstanding way not understanding what the that there was not in this quarter becoming up tomorrow we have our annual board meeting for all the sports to sort association presidents and board members who are welcome to come that's over it by kmart we have john boehner sack the former pittsburgh steeler coming in to do a presentation for all the for all the board people i'll be attending that is long probably guess probably twenty to twenty five people will be there i was there last year i was about we had and those are the highlights that i highlighted and he questions i don't have any questions i guess this is just a obviously it's like i said neal so all the pieces are are up to date what we have now is very outdated and starting to whether in the show this is located at the upper end of the park near the back entrance th correct so it will replace the existing one now right and one of the things that we're looking at doing is oh and another thing is this this is much much taller like the pieces that we have are like one or two  stories some of these pieces are up to three stories it just really is more of a grandiose we're looking for more of a destination playground this isn't exactly what we would be doing we just had to get some sort of an idea to get budget numbers for the grant i mean this is something we would have to send out to bid but this is just an idea of the layout but we're looking for a destination playground something that is larger in scale more eye catching these are things that came out of our comprehensive plan that the community felt  that our parks and our township needed so that's what we're looking at doing and one of the things that we wanted to incorporate into this is either along the perimeter or i don't know if you're familiar with the area up top but there's like a little island between the two areas right now and depending on how we design it i'd like to put somewhere in that space some adult fitness equipment not like the fitness trail that we have now those are stationary pieces this is more of a movable type piece of equipment it's outdoor but it's movable  which would be really good for the parents or caretakers of the children using the playground but it would also be a draw for other people who don't normally use that area seniors individuals that may not have children so  can it can draw more use and more attention to that space and in addition to those things we're looking at doing either a poured in place or a turf surfacing or a combination of the two which makes it more accessible to you know do you expect that the footprint of that is going to be expanded it was hard to tell from the i think i had said to our playground representative that i was working with that we could expand to an extent we don't want to go in and rip out trees or any existing facilities but that if if the footprint needed to change slightly based on the space that we have available flat usable area we could do that and it wouldn't it probably wouldn't be much larger than what we have now  proposed three hundred seventy five thousand for the playground and one hundred or seventy thousand for the shelter so we had four hundred fifty thousand budgeted total but obviously if we don't get the grant we're going to have to scale back to issue the good thing about this location is there parking lot across the street and for the grasshopper field that's not it's a used field our girls lacrosse association uses it and the boys lacrosse football is used to periodically but they're not large groups and they don't use it for games so that parking areas and soccer has stopped using that field has become less utilize that the parking area has so we really have an overflow there that is is great for that park and for that  playground it's a great location for that in the shelters so i don't know that it's necessary with that parking that parking lot of spam and i don't know that we have a whole lot of room up in the circle to expand no i wasn't sure yeah it looked like as you said it would be a destination so i think we can we can do something to better surface that walking that if there's a wood chip walking path that goes up there currently and w probably want to do something to make that better that still would not be considered the eighty eight access trail because of the grade but we would still have the handicapped parking and the eighty x top which would definitely be  within the regulations so i think i think that the parking that we have there should be sufficient will see as time goes but i don't think that that's going to be an issue just one last question we were talking about  again we would have to go out there what we would bet on is how many ramps how many slides how many you know with the what they call those the stations that the kids go to that are ground  level how many of each of those we would want and we put that out to bed and then we would get designs from each playground supplier and then that's when we actually would bring it to the kids to and have have their employees and see what they think that's what we did  trail pieces that we have now they're the only thing that's different is this there's movable pieces like if it's a leg press they can put their legs on it move it but the lobby concreted into the ground and they all have a fall zone just like a playground would i mean know it's it's designed for i mean it's designed for adults but it's designed that it's safe like i said the piece is that they have them in parks all over and even our fitness equipment you go out and you see the kids using it again that was intended for adults but i see kids with their parents or grandparents climbing on it using at but we have the fall zones and it's pretty it's not it's not like usable pieces  fall on them or crush them or anything like that and if it helps like they won't be weight bearing as far as weight they'll be bearing their own weight so that's how it's that's how it's you want to explain the russian or awards one of the things that we have a difficult time dealing with the sports associations on is getting the documentation they require documentation on time the biggest concern that the parks and recreation board has is the obvious list a background check dates for their volunteers and coaches and the roster schedules for that the teams those are the three most important things that we get from them  and when we don't get them in time or get them at all i am chasing them down and not getting the information necessary from some of the groups and what the parks and recreation board wanted to do is come up with something to do to kind of back me  give them some leverage to be able to do something about it one of the things that we've always talked about is you can't take the fields away because who you're going to be punishing by doing that is the kids and we don't want to punish the kids for a lack of you know organization or compliance on the adults part so this was something the parks and recreation board felt they could do to try and get compliance from the sports associations that i don't know if john and wanted to speak on any of that but that was the that was the do well for instance when i get a field request from a sports association i send them back a notification saying these fields will be approved once i receive your documentation and it doesn't have any signatures that i put it together with a cover letter explaining all of that the problem is that there's nobody out there standing at the gate not her bending them to use the field they go out there news that whether they have that permission or not and you know we have got ten youth sports associations we can't police every field to make sure that these associations aren't using them and again do we want to penalize the children's you asians or using the fuels year round no but i mean any time you're talking right now  are worried about the coach they're the ones yeah if they're out on the field and it's all the players with them but you're worried about the coaches and the clearances and you're worried that the rosters include residents not out of township  to supply a b and c to watch or you can use the free period and frankly i agree with you mr curious right about the idea that you need to be firm with them but the thing that i'm concerned about is these people are all volunteers many of them are people who have full time jobs and their families and they've decided they're going to give their time to volunteer and you know i would have to be sure first that people really understand the r when they and they do if there's a question of not understanding that to differences we've actually addressed that to we have i have alliance meetings at least twice a year where we go over all the rules and included in that is are a set of policies and procedures that include everything that's required for me each association i show them an update of where they stand we have a documentation list for each of the associations and if we get a new president we have a documentation coordinator and a president if we get any new ones of those two positions throughout the year at any time i meet with them separately to go over those two and now we actually have a sheet of paper that they have to sign saying that they've received this information they understand it and share it with their boards because so many times i've heard that same statement saying although i did now and these are people that came to the meetings that were present when we went over this so we go over the information i hound them for it constantly to my desire to try to defend and among the lack of knowledge is i but i do want to defend them on the it's i don't think it's a lack of knowledge i think it's just because they are busy they're volunteering their time they have other things going on and i do defend them in that respect because they are volunteering and i do appreciate that it's just that we need we try not to make it an overwhelming amount of information but we do have things that we have to require to make sure that they're being safe and that they're covering themselves in utilizing our ability  kids and i mean for all the right there's a lot of valid reasons why but in the end of the day it's the ninety eight percent to or good citizens who have to pay the price for the very small fraction that are that are township policy acknowledges them for three years the state acknowledges them for five so if they're volunteering within a township sports association they have to redo them every three years that's what our policy has been since this  since we put the background checks in place you can be more stringent in the state but you can't be more lax so we can't say six or seven years but we can say less because our board felt that three years was sufficient they feel that the longer you go so the more things that could happen in between there have been circumstances that things have happened from the time that somebody has been screened to the next three years and so we make it easier now with the printing  and the state actually i mean they did make an effort on making it easier too because the both of their screenings are now available online used to have to go to the bank and get up money order and mail it in and take four to six weeks and it's not like that anymore you can read them both online we don't have to do any i mean these are just suggestions this gives us a little teeth but certainly we're going to go with the stern warnings on all the people for the first go around this is probably more for the repeat offenders that we've had over them again i've only been there for a little over a year but there has been some repetitiveness in that over the five years that i've heard about before i was there so you're not you're not setting up two hundred or violations every single time there's going to probably be some perhaps oh just so you know that this is it for this is  we found out about it at the end of the season so the kid already played the whole season and they were supposed to play the whole season and i didn't find out until i think it was the one right before the last game because policies will do all of compliance for documentation no this would actually deal with noncompliance of policies such as not residence the biggest the biggest concern that the board had was the three documents that we're talking about but they also wanted to be able to deal with the noncompliance of the nonresident one of the parents that i talked to the resident parents was upset because the nonresident was playing and not only were they playing on the team but they were getting preferential treatment they were playing as a starter they were playing more time if there was kind of like a ringer that was brought in they didn't meet the players but all right well find the association and if it happens again then you get rid of the coach you know i mean something like that you could handle you don't want to you know you don't want to get rid of coaches are already good you know you don't want to you know you don't want to set up something that you can't this go around they wanted to simplify it a little bit the last time it was actually more detailed they had listed all of the facilities and potential prices that they would charge and like i said it was a lot more detailed this when they felt that it leaving it more open and leaving it to the discretion of the township say council wants to try or the board wants to recommend let's do all the shelters and this way we can we can put it out to bed all the same we'll bring in see like who beds the most for whatever length we decide what size the signs are what have you we can detail all those things in the bed as opposed to detailing them all up front and then sending things out and this way it gives the option of i mean it's it's good it's a great idea and certainly generating revenue is fine but unless we can generate significant revenue to me putting signs on this came back up after are our budget workshop in the fall and we're talking about funding ideas and naming rights came up and the board felt that that was a good time to revisit it like i said this was just an idea of how to signs that go up on the scoreboard in the park for advertising and so good so that's kind of how this would work which it would be something that the township you know our township manager at the parks and recreation board are ministration would decide you know what it is that we would be allow to go out to bed so if we just decide on one facility save the emptier gets belt then we think that that's something that everybody agrees on that should have a naming right then we could send that out to bed and we wouldn't send out a whole bed say ok we're looking for this and this and this and this to be named we're just looking at doing like one you know one or two things at a time  reason i think in the body of it i mean i guess what i'm sitting here thinking is we just talked about the playground that we're proposing to go out for a d c and or grand and it's five hundred thousand dollars so if somebody wants to name it after their family four hundred thousand dollars to me that's a book that's what i actually am saying that's sort of a no brainer in some respects and my only concern is if we do a policy i think you just have to be able to we have to give michelle the right to figure out how to either first of all explain that it's exist as an option and then second marriage the process when it when people do come to you t i think in my opinion i think we need to table this until the solicitor looks at it and i think that based on what we've just said to michelle perhaps we can clarify a few of the points and how it would be managed because i do think at the end you're going to have to have a contract with  ver if we do accept and donation sponsorship whatever we're calling it was i would agree that it requires a look through by the solicitor so i'll withdraw  is down one level so it could be easily ramped the park too would be sticking it out further and moving this section over there so this is this would be with the ramp would start right up here well i just could you clarify that to you was there a duration estimate on what the m time would take for the work to be completed by each of the parties we have a time period that we was door locks you talk about the issue with the doors not closing that's i'm wondering why there's such a discrepancy in the two first two bits and then ten thousand more on the others because the closing of the doors is the clo fuel prices in the drop of the fuel prices and number two i think morgan from talking to them they they don't have a big job lined up yet so they kind of need to work so they gave us a pretty good number you'll see that we did  one hundred thirty one million three hundred thirty one thousand and change and that's what we are recommending to woodward i would note that again the fire lot comes out of a separate account  now the base bid in alternate demerit if dr come come in a slightly lower than one one point three million we have about probably one point four million the comfortably spend on road resurfacing taking into account the rejuvenat in some additional cost that pete typically has for topsoil and in light grades and stuff like that the come out of the account so there's probably another hundred thousand to spend in we do have a couple roads in mind that women needed from this program base big due to budgetary concerns to the fact that the numbers came in lower i mean we could recommend some streets or i don't know if michael and paul by have alternate plans for that money but i just want councillor know that there's we typically try to hold off on milling paving operations just to not interfere with the basket of that's not going to be possible so we've already talked to the school district transportation department and you know it's it's nothing that can't be overcome it's just a and property and we found that sixty foot call the sac to up the minimum the want to go to allow for a garbage truck term you know in one motion you know myself and pete were not in favor of going less than sixty the hammerheads we're we did one now three years ago now down on value that was the last one of these that we were able to get property owner cooperation we proposed a sixty foot call the sac there but again met unless you offset it like i'm proposing the long view it's going to involve two property owners in a one on value didn't he wasn't willing to do that so the property owner allow us to put the hammerhead in it works it's just not ideal and it's up i will be honest in these situations here the long view home groove woodside drives probably the number three one on the order of importance there's just no room i mean it's just a thirty three foot right away the dead end into a property taken out to locate that offset called a sack i haven't drawn there and he's just not willing to have his yard disrupted he has children in the united play in the yard you know he's proposed just or we wouldn't be having this issue could i ask a question if we can't do this now with these particular areas has the township ever been able to for example with this property what changed hands at that point in time would we be able to enter see to get some of the property and at that point i'm not asking them to move but if they decided to move before it was sold would we be in a position at that point to facilitate what we're trying to not now the first time there's an emergency down in a fire truck can turn around or something like that then they'll be in front of us as in why we didn't do something and good point you know i'm not it did certain current events in the township not the standing i'm not a big fan of eminent domain but in this instance here i i wouldn't be opposed to it i think this is a safety issue given the length of this street talking fifteen hundred feet i mean you're you're past a third of a mile little bit in you know offset or just a little bit more and moved a little bit further down the road swung a little bit more around that would get a little further away from this property and it doesn't look like the contours are really all that much worse little further down and we've even proposed to the property you know if it's if it's usable yard you ran through what we could maybe do you my opinion is that we've got to do something to make a couple more tries to you know make reasonable accommodation and if that doesn't work and we need to consider moving ahead has to be make clear to the people whose properties have been affected had previously mentioned maybe a deal where we could pay for materials and he would do the installation of a pipe up science that's really the next best thing that i  can suggest the council who created the problem begin with well that's i think is if he greeted his yard in such a way that he's getting water that really shouldn't be our problem at all twenty five thousand last including to whom you say i'm i would not want the township to pay more than he's paying and i think we need to be careful too we do we know not that i'm against assisting so you're coming back with this because i'm presuming that in your is the issue then we operate given the right size of pipe and then he's responsible for the rest of it as long as he signs the deal that says where absolved then from at that point forward that would be my recommendation  but i think we would want any agreement we have with them we would want an indemnification to the extent that any of those property owners downstream were to attempt to come back after the township arguing that there was an increase in water after this downstream to be a year or two years from now of any liability resulting from any flooding that may result downstream from this pipe as well as the property owner completing the work on the pipe within six months i would have just a general release  electronic signs are under our current regulations they would need to be monuments stop signs we don't see a hardship to switch to that's the first very i do have a clarifying question they're saying that they're below the road if you put it well i'm just asking you because i can't tell from where it s whether they are i know that we've approved other signs where the building simpler to read and i would not want to make sure that being consistent that if that's a necessity i would not keep on that size but is there anything that should be they will probably come to us with but then that would eliminate that that would even make that less of an issue now i would agree then that right now neither of them probably warrant a change so if one thing i was over at the library and i wondered the amnesty program they did was that the amnesty program the library did was that in any way beneficial i