nothing to do with the case with somebody squirrel friend and getting money people that they don't know everybody's getting money and gambino is getting very little that doesn't raise a red flag to somebody who's little or no money i mean why would he enter into a transaction give up his property when he's getting nothing for i just think that he he got substantial money taxes or real estate taxes were paid to clear the title for the sophisticated people who were investing you i don't know what advantage and it is the gambino i mean why would a man go sell properties when he's getting sophisticated real estate bad doesn't see the red flag anywhere be it is this what you want us to believe i do want you to believe that your honor and all that when we're looking at the trial judge's findings can friends actions as far as we know i'm not involved in hard money loans so i don't have any experience in my life but these are not we're not conventional transactions but they can't be removed relative yes we have the testimony as to their sources of income how they live and so head been working in the automotive business and left to get involved with sal didn't have employment he he worked on putting deals together he didn't have a bank account for example of head he transacted his operations your question directly is that the documents for the transaction were brought to those who insist we're simply closing these transactions he wasn't involved in making the transactions for him to say that because the title was transferred to him and that preceding his obtaining of the loan for the president action so that it could be done as a refinance which was  there's no evidence that he was that there's no evidence that he it was never determined but  just the simply about who testified to what and i am referring to paragraph five on your page nineteen of your brief which you you allege and apparently it is not  nothing could have occurred until gambino it took these properties out trust i think that's pretty much agreed by everybody right nobody nobody disputes the fact that he took the properties out of trust complicated by just want to go back to the beginning because the allegation here throughout by most of the defendants is that mr gambino was a willing participant in all of this although his fingerprints aren't anywhere to be seen other than early on when he took the at the closing of the treasury he did not know where it came from or what the purpose of it and i would have to agree with with the court independent testimony from someone not involved to finish the question about the least they so that coons was going to be and so it's my understanding that so everybody involved at this point was involved in a conspiracy to deprive the i r s of the tax i can't say that there was anyone involved in that other than well you know  crime i don't know if you've committed a federal crime but i certainly understand the meaning of court but there's nothing that indicates that dennis and making a would be one of the i wouldn't want to be in front of a federal grand jury having written those checks ok why did he have gambino site on a sophisticated man of real estate for forty years and he knows that this guy that has some some interest here which he cannot determine that's why he's having the seventy thousand dollars on the nile's transaction well how could he argue that he wasn't and that that they did deeds were forged without his knowledge if you get if he accepted seventy thousand dollars well that i mean that's a question i should be asking his lawyers hole did not have clean hands because gambino did receive some mighty good he admitted that he received some money here that he was attempting to get around the internal revenue service so  simply goes to the fact that there was testimony by the handwriting that the exemplars for determining the authenticity of mr gambino signature were supplied to her by him yes that's true that's true supply yes but everything that she used to make a comparison between the signatures on the deeds and the and his actual signature were supplied by him  had to have the deeds or copies or facsimiles of the deeds in order for the subsequent two transactions to proceed because nobody was home a lend money on a property in trust right exactly having the trust she had failed to obtain the current sample of