deliberate indifference to those conditions to raise a fact issue and summary the warden summary judgment motion took clarification questions are great his alleged that the only cleaning supplies he gets are a towel that is than during the eight months it's been laundered right so from the facts on the record in the corpus the only facts that we have there that the towel mr gray received a towel that was distributed once every eight months and that additional powers were available for purchase at the commissary but new towers are not distributed by the prison so we don't know if it's i mean i can't even imagine what it looks like after eight months if it hasn't been laundered but right and i mean i suppose mr gray perhaps could use a sink claim should be severed so that the liability portion joins the dobie class and the damages portion is put on hold pending the resolution of the dobie then of course if there's a finding favorable to the state and in the class action that's the end of things you know nobody will ever reach his remedy right right if if there's a case with consolidated for liability and then right and then if in fact there is a finding of liability in the beach to class action some kind of declaratory injunctive relief you would foresee that at that point the just for a court would go back to the individual cases that have been filed and figure out some there's whatever is going on is insufficient i guess what you're saying you're right so the the district court did not consider that deliberate indifference pronk but the primary action taken by the warden in this case is a yes they have a contract with a pest control agency in this pest control and she comes out every month or every few weeks to spray for crawling insects and mice but mr graves claims that this is this pest infestation combined with the broken windows that allowed bird stench of the syllabi to death to get all of its facility combined with a denial of access to cleaning supplies that contribute to this unsanitary environment in the war and is not taking appropriate actions to combat that there's no evidence to indicate that he indifferent to those conditions who stars watered down disinfectant or whatever it is also concerned about what a prisoner could do with it no more cost but it there are security rationales and we don't dispute the some effort to provide inmates of cleaning supplies the here mr gray demonstrated he was a night access not only to cleaning chemicals but to mops to brooms to buckets and he was not only prohibited from keeping those items in his cell but he was denied access to those items at all times the case of the government points to you all actually indicate that the defendants in those cases produced evidence showing that the inmates were provided clinics about cleaning supplies at certain times for example and michel the government produced evidence showing that point explorer provided mops and brooms and buckets and in jones the same thing here mr gray has demonstrated that he is completely denied access to those items and the government you know is able to buy some things if he wanted to at the commissary although i commissary there's no indication that he had any act any availability to buy brooms or mops or buckets and there's no indication that the government that some kind of benign so and so on are not available there and that's there's no evidence or  record as to what is available ok at the commissary and there is evidence i take it from your perspective that that this is a cumulative thing it's the birds flying all over the place and not fixing the windows so they don't and that it's been exacerbated by his being forced to live under these conditions right so does that distinguish him from the remainder of the dobie class or just that it's relevant about that christine prison conditions or even comparable this is pretty far from pristine i mean i think the same question for you that i cheered for mr campbell there has been a certified class action you know with i mean other things too but certainly among the things listed in the materials for that case are these problems with the birds and the mice and those spiders and the cockroaches and and all the rest of these things it seems and this is not a situation unlike one of the northern district of illinois cases which seems just to have been mistaken where anybody has a choice about whether to be in the class or not to be to class so it's hard for me to imagine why why these conditions would not take it in the aggregate to give somebody an intolerable living environment i tell you it wouldn't take too many cockroaches for me to feel that way but maybe i'm just an usually police many of the same conditions filth in the environment maybe i could generalize and so i'm not sure why particular rising i mean if somebody were complaining  this and at the same time hams are something that is totally different i wouldn't see any reason there another another inefficiency is that and i guess this is a broader consideration for the court there are at any given time in the northern district ten or twelve other state bill cases and so absent the existence of this class action it's knowledge and inadequate response that would seem to suggest that injunctive relief would be appropriate and the district judge would do what district judges do in those cases but that's  n at least two straight major respects short of a finding that would support liability for money damages against any individual at least it would seem to me you may have a longer list than i do but you know essence was the reward in trying to take reasonable measures an issue that really hasn't been briefed on us and was not reached by the district court and of course the defense of qualified immunity when under the circumstances all of which in any case seeking money damages would be on the table as a right yes ok so you could win this if we send it back and say wait to see what happens and dobby you could win it in dobie and then it might be that what you needed to do is of the little bit later trial if you lose it a little bit later trial that would focus on those other case specific issues relevant to damages that's right does not sound like a good idea to fifty we don't we if the court i mean it's a close call we do not have a strong opposition to it which i've got to get back to  it maybe also a third consideration of this mentioned briefly if you look at the docket sheet in that case i think it's remained pretty static since spring warm summer i don't think we would order judge in any event the district court reached the correct conclusion on summary judgment because the eighth amendment requires an objective we serious harm and then we can text realize that it requires a sufficiently serious harm he says that he was victimized because the mouse knocked over food that he was warned against eating his food that you believe in eating his food not knock some chili on to his prison uniform that's because he stores the food i some of these some of these items we can infer a commissary purchase because there was were no cereal there's no reference to hot meals but your aren't cheap your point not none of these incursions if you will birds zeros constitutionally they're very close to zero and even t don't think inhaling fecal dust from birds is is unhealthy i don't think there's any medical evidence in this record that it's cost any of this undoubtedly but he came into the prison to twenty four with asthma and now he's a cook close to forty and there's also evidence in the regulations the cook county jail for seven years without problems well but we don't have anything any reliable medical evidence in the record about causation there's correlation to be sure but but also he was told by one of his medical examiners that stress is a could be a cause of his  not as bad as it sounds there's nothing in his testimony that says he was given a new towel every eight months what he says is that and new challenges were provided and you clothing was provided every eight months but every hope they do i'll just leave it at that if i can just wrap up your honor and the state did everything possible to provide a clean environment we've discussed it in our brief from cleaning those floors daily to removing nast's t exterminating twice a month not nothing that none of that lowered the eighth amendment floor to allow mr gray to prevail in summary judgment ok thank you thank you very much consistently been treated for everything related difficulties and that he testified that these conditions these unsanitary conditions aggravate as asthma and made it difficult for him to breathe and in fact this court recognized and thomas that  cockroaches for example pass carry bacteria that can aggravate invade asthma just like the conditions mr gray alleges here and because the mr gray did present sufficient evidence that was not