particular string or a piece of text that appears in the web page so they can return to it at a later date in that says particular utility to freedom scientific costumers because freedom sells software for blind or vision impaired users and it can be difficult and when the user moves to a different document mcentee will retain the position of every cursor in the document so that if the user then comes back the reading can start at the same place where it left off now  begins a list of the most recently requested parsed h t m l tree structures and their associated recurses may be maintained it goes on to say by maintaining the recurse or along with each parts to parse document when a user switches to another page and the list invention can continue reading from where it left off what the passage is saying is that we can do retains the parse tree structures so it receives an h t m l document from somewhere else it turns it into was for example to submit an expert declaration saying that that can be should be read that someone the skill in the art there's simply no disclosure in the candy or is not right you did not know it was a decoration no  but there's nothing in the reference to indicate that that happens and in fact if you look at how it actually operates to see i think the court will see that it would not detain the or else and this is because t we did not put in a declaration that i don't understand of the examiner found that was required to be functional i think the examiner found that the reference disclosed that based on this one paragraph and i don't think that it can fairly be read by anyone the reference and say anything about euros and there is mention u r l s by noon but the examiner found that the implicit in and it did require and storage of you are coming you know what is the i guess we don't see any evidence before the board for the examiner that there are you or else so there is no evidence there is no evidence i did buy by the government that there is that our u r l when we can get what they're saying is well for the problems we're not a crock you know we're not x for something we have to read the records it's made and you didn't make the record that's the problem in the world i think i have interrupt because i think we also appreciate that this patent examination process is a procedure between experience examiners experience the applicant is an expert  african says if it's inadequate to persuade xander putting it in the words of an expert and other expert an outside person is not the primary source of information that we need to find however this doesn't take place in even heavier burden of persuasion perhaps on the applicant to overcome the extreme determination technological question an appeal from the office something christian we're confronted with all the time and i think what we're saying is you can make your case whether the case would have been made to someone else besides the inventor it's sworn to it i suppose depends on the viewpoint of the decision league but you still have to persuade us that your view of the technology and what the references say and the  that has been imposed on this going by the supreme court of appeals for the office now i don't know if that makes your argument even harder but i do think you have to tell us as all understand what the your l is and if you look in the county you can see that based on the way it operates it doesn't there's no need to retain the euro will serve their argument as well it must retain your elbow but it's easy to see that in my opinion  and if you did retain the u r l the issue is that the thing that you have you turned into a tree when you went back to really one that you had moved away from if you were using the or else a to go back out and get  page it likely would have changed so you would not have identity between the previous thing that you parsed and the web page to just pull down so for that reason you wouldn't in macon to be retaining the oriel because what you've already parsed could have changed compared to what's on the web parts h t m l document in mckinney corresponds to the age to the document and that marking the position of a string in document that corresponds to the original satisfy the claim so the claims don't say marking the position of a string in a document that arguments about the elements of the independent claim about the independent claims not being anticipated claim six isn't the the combination is alleged to fix the defect that was would be present in the independent claims reference does not adequately disclose storm the r l it let me just take you to the passages through really showed clearly what the examiner in the board relied upon to find that indeed the prior art does i mean the seven zero seven pat six down around the lines forty six to fifty five it's specifically talks about how mcguinty the prior art can pull up web pages in the way the people of those web pages with a browser and when they pull up the web pages they record the history of the web pages they visited for aids and if you look earlier on page a forty five one page earlier column three lines thirty four through forty you'll see them again t express states that when it uses a browser it use a u r l to bring up those documents therefore it's our position that mcguinty does expressly stated that he uses the u r l to bring up documents web pages asking for in a browser and provision that i've pointed to those past and he says them again teaches that such a list provides a history of visited h t m l documents commonly implemented in browser software that's page eight to sixty two  appendix in other words he states them against the system uses the history list in a web browser to retrieve previously visited documents a web browser retrieve documents which treats documents from the world wide web using the uniform resource it say that and in the next page eighty sixty three of the examiner as an answer he says it again in other words i'm against would require your l's to be associated with the history list in order to revisit the h t m l document implemented in claim one is a very bright claim and what it says is a method of marking the position of a string in a document position and that's what's marked the position of the spring so as as  is a reader for vision impaired users they're sitting there looking at the web they can't see it so they have to listen so mcginty then takes that web page it downloads it puts it into a readable format and a reading software reads it and as it reads it if it stops at a particular position because the user might say stop i want to go to another web page it's faster that's part of motion of the web page might move to multiple other web pages but then the user can go back he can go backwards in the history with still history was that we just talked about and can go back to that exact position that it previously stopped dead and pick up a reading in the government's view of the examiners you on the boards can do that's marking the position of a string in a document exactly as required by the claim so we think both of these issues that there is substantial evidence in the record that support the findings by the examiner and the board on those points now finally one other point that appellant the opposing counsel raise he says mcginty is different because mcguinty marks a parsed document doesn't mark the original dr well if you look at the seven zero seven pack which is their specifications they don't mark the original web page data and you know they download the document they they and it saves those place markers that is exactly what the prior mcguinty reference does so it's our position that when you reclaim one and it talks about method of marking the position of a string the document retrieving the document downloading it from the web establishing a cursor location parsing and identifying the u r l and storing the positional value in the u r l that again she performs all of those functions and it's crystal clear from the records and the jammin point to the evidence in the record and so the board and it's our text text into lines on the page and you'll even see a query strings of text in the image of him against the reference and for example on page a forty six of the joint appendix column five let me take you down column five to lines thirty three through thirty six cursors may be used to represent other positions or nodes with the tree as needed such as when searching the document for a particular text string th can you can have your text read are reading the facts and when it reads it if you stop reading at a particular position it will store that position because you can come back to the position we're reading left off in the position that it's we really well i was at first  correctly now let's go further into the good at page and what that's talking about there is maintaining the read cursor along with each person document with a weak person or is the thing that's reading at a particular spot in the document which we earlier talked about searching for texturing let's say searching for my name passages together what you see is in column six lines page a forty six column six lines fifty three fifty five we're talking about the history of visited documents and maintaining the read cursor along with each person documenting when a user switches to another page in the list the invention continue rican to new reading a document from the position at which it stops when the last reading that page will when it reads the read cursor is what marks where cursor and as the cursor moves to the software is reading those words to you and if you picked up a spot on that page and you search for example for a text string lets say it was my name below market it finds it and it starts free and now you say stop read it stops right there you move to another web page and it stores it remembers the spot where reading was and you can now go back to the previous page and read at that exact same spot in in the government's view of the him finally the only way asked point that was mention was i think claim six claim six by itself that was rejected in obvious mistakes it's correct what of what opposing counsel said that's claimed six basically the same arguments have been made against point six because it's dependent with a browser will the browser isn't isn't part of the can't be the browser is something else so we would submit that if you're going to if you're going to involve the browser going title to a reference that shows a browser we're entitled then to a one of three rejection and that's a different thing than we're talking about here  and then secondly i thought what mr le marcus said about strings was sort of illuminated because he said well william mark is a string and certainly did this but that isn't what was happening when he was talking about moving through with the cursor in a document because you're not a reference well there isn't anything that relates to that particular string it's just a point in the document wherever you happen to big it's not allowing the user to buy that it's not biased right sorry or how was the point identified except something right was not the identified with reference to a string how is the position that will that was in my view that's the point the position is not with reference to a string the position is nothing at all it's