he's making it worse picciola will be trying to drive home the point that the selection of color into the different types of fishing parks is a matter of routine experimentation on the other hand i will be you make a pretty a point where they can become indistinguishable except that there is a barb of the end of what you want to call a hook but it's the hook is colored so as to be part of the lure where does the hook start and lure and this is why the clamp year round recites that the hook is is  does that prejudice your case in this particular case the answer is no you first i think the record is clear that there is such a thing as a hook per se but secondly if we are talking about the light transmission of the fishing books of a red orange and yellow three were purple and particularly orange clean and clean twenty five those particular corks are colored a specific color if we take a look at the patents a little bit of knowledge has a secondary reference to this particular patent says that the body of the people thought that to make the cork less visible it should be shall i say in this of them and how to do them of void color so we will hear of routine experimentation and i will point out that kitty claims have been i caught two hundred pounds of salmon tying a orange piece of yarn to a hook in the last cut now why wouldn't it be obvious to one of skill in the art to just make the hook oranges w the question is why he didn't because the methods that they use these folks have been allowed repeatedly allowed over three boards at the patent office and this characteristic of these folks was 's there are some declarations that indicate some preference but the why isn't it just a matter of choice system whether you make our image green purple yellow in the first instance the focus novel the second instance beach selection was not a matter of routine choice this certainly is a matter of choice it's a matter of inventive choice i submit my question is one why do you characterize that as event of choice because the translucent hook a lack of color that is that is certainly novel and it is certainly an obvious to employ colored to do to do that but we would think that when you say that one indication we have that it is colors applied to a cork and then been determined that they would be less attractive under certain water conditions certain colors them and the art let's hear that but i think what the art already showed is the entire gamut of colors and color less now with the board doesn't really address the cuckoo or distinction that the color being there to what's trashed in the case of allure and the color being there to render invisible in the case of the book is this the board is really grappling with some of that i think the board does touch on it your honor because the board talks about the local reference disguising the hook as part of the  in that case that integrated to it says that the pope will have a light color or that the war has a like color and therefore the the hope within that particular lore will scarcely be able to be detected that's the low brow frenc that the ford relies on so i do think that the board has addressed the difference between a lorena hook and given mr ruby the benefit of the doubt because they specifically chose it for i should say the it's the office position that he has not succeeded and the reason for that is that as i stated a live teaches color it teaches a light color that can match the color of the war  so in order as as in your honour's alluded to in order for mr rudy to overcome with already been admitted and taught in these references he would need to show something unexpected that his colors are providing wh unable to do if he admits here today his rebuttal evidence is merely that the colors are pleasing or attractive to a certain family and friends some of whom are not expert and fishing so given that colored hooks and metal hooks and translucent hawks are already taught that level of anecdotal evidence certainly does not overcome a strong obviousness rejection  the ice cube in the martini they're invisible are not troubled by that your honor because sin is that although it's a design pattern is teaching a translucent hawk so theoretically that is intended to be invisible although that's not taught in that design time and additionally low that specifically stating as something intended to disguise a sock so we already have cooks in the art that are meant not to attract the attention of the alone and in combination for that reason we believe that the board made a correct decision in affirming the rejection of the examiner that these claims are obvious eight eighty eight but then heard how intrusive it is well i think the explanation is in this instance of a nine one i think we have an agency seven petitions he's proper eight extensions of time he's filed twenty nine miscellaneous letters to the office which have been responded to and he's enjoyed three board appeals he's also had his four in column one lines twenty seven through forty five says that the light color may be applied to the body as i mentioned earlier argument but there is no mention of color in the on the portion of the of the horror of the bar the bar and the band that come from there there is no mention of color just the idea that color would be less attractive to fish was not known in the art