boss as the director of budget to do for us is of course to give us his thoughts and comments regarding budget implementation part of the use of the quarterly reports is of course for the ago i was reviewing the financer quarterly report trends middles and we were providing this budget implementation report as a consolidated part of the finance directors quarterly report the operational activities of the departments as of june thirtieth end of the fiscal year so if you want to make sure you pull that report out again kind of communication fifteen to one two and you'll see in there there is two sections to the report the first section is the actual performance measures so three point zero four point zero five zero requires that a budget implementation report shall be transmitted by each county agency within thirty days of the end of each quarter of the fiscal year and it has to include each budget implementation report shown clude the following information or report of each position vacant for ninety days or more as of the end of the reporting period together with the reason for the vacancy the duration of the we can see the status of personnel actions taken the big can see and anticipated date that the vacancy will be filled and the second item is a status report of each key county agencies programme objectives and performance measures so when you look through the report that the first thing you'll see there is the vacancies for civil defense it's completely blank there you see they don't have position in the ministration office that is vacant because resignation of employee and the position was deleted in f y fifteen budget as adopted by the county council so that that is not going to be filled there's an anticipation date of nothing we will probably look at abolishing that position in the wastewater division you see there's a number of employees that are positions that are vacant based on promotions resignations retirements and then the status of personal acting and using some of them are we describing their recruiting interviews completed insufficient application pool sometimes is an issue and so then we have also the anticipated field date of those positions on the right side so basically this report is a you've been a little bit familiar with department of personnel services vacancy report that you get on a regular basis from them and that is just a generic report with all positions that are with are held within the department of personal services system to say that you know those are that are vacant with his list of items that we have a list of positions that we that we have actually funded in the department as well as and then what the status is  whether they're being transferred from another section or promotion or different things like that to fill the positions so we keep track of that and then so this report is a little bit more  thought out then the personnel report because it allows for the opportunity for us to to provide some better information as to up to date from the departments of far as the activities are of those different personnel  so those are the basic introduction to this section of the report misfits i don't know if one of us up and ask questions now in this year where we had just taken section by section so that the members can maybe focus and just a few thing s one thank you very much for doing this with the committee this morning mr bowser i appreciate it but just quickly some of the things that quickly catches our eye so let's go to the  make this more efficient in the position field for operations as you know because you know you know after a while people like me would see this position is not needed since in four and a half years we never feel was the e p four it was deleted out of the department of american management and added to the department of public works during budget deliberations so the council adopted budget had deleted that position so they remain on this the different departments of vacancies in their department and they will analyze whether or not the that position needs to be abolished you know meaning that it's no longer in personnel system there's no e p a for it there's no funding for it so and it hasn't been funded for you know as you brought up four years so why do we even need this position anymore and the department will say yes no it's ok to do abolish  structure in mind of how they wanted to manage their liquor control officers and so this position was a part of a reorganization reorganization take a long time obviously not ten years but it's something that they haven't i guess completed the reorganization yet to be able to fill the position i would have to defer to the department to get any specifics as far as the status what request that they've made basically a reorganization they within the department will have the managers and the director work with you know the staff and figure out what is the best structure for that division and it may be you know that they need a clerk and don't need a specialist or you know this liquor control officer maybe they decided that you know they needed some other position instead of that those requests go to the department of management they're analyzed and if they are you know that sometimes there's there's discussions going back and forth questions back and forth between the department of department of management then that request if it's approved by the current events make goes to department of personnel services for review and at the same time will go to the union for consultation and so those be any change in organizational structure requires union consultations so you know each one of those steps and activities does take a while but obviously not ten years so that would be a question specifically for the department coach thank you of course my first question is this is available on p d f so we don't have to have all the paper so we can it is available in p d f and but i think we have to talking about abolishing so when you say you want to abolish that position is only the ones that have no e p and no funding and haven't had for a while is that where you typically yes i mean the mayor has the ability to really the creation and and abolishment you know what those positions are is object to the administration so the mayor is the one that's charged with that ability to create an abolished based on you know that to make sure i mean we still have to make sure that there's no more than ten positions and now that with the salary restrictions as well but you know that's something that that the mayor does so then we can kind of say for can we safely assume that wherever it does say it's abolished it's it's one that has no e p and no funding yes ok we don't abolish positions that have a body in it and and well but what we do we have on occasion because of reorganization then abolish positions that me and maybe in the budget details showed that they did have you know again tenney piece for that program reclassification where we take that one position to make it a different body or we create a new position and abolish the old position ok so i was i was concerned you know we were talking about reassigning for a long time and to abolish the position as opposed to reassign it somewhere else but the fact that he is you know working with personal services the creation and filling of a position and the reclassification and filling  description and feeling of a position take about the same amount of time if it's if it's an existing you know typical type of position you know in our in our civil service system then it's easy if it's  position that was you know incumbent retired or whatever even six months if you know the position is going away especially in you know the private sector you have to usually have two weeks notice and then your you recruit and you can hire within a month but take six months i mean it's just it's hard i know it's civil service and i know we have to deal with that but if somebody signs up for a position he fills out a happy a we had an opening i'm going to fill out this application in january they're not going to sit around until june or july waiting for that job hoping to get it they're going to find another job somewhere  t and we're all i guess we're all frustrated with this but has the administration or the civil service commission take a look at the procedures so we can we can shorten that amount of time we have two weeks notice sometimes if they even if we have a year's notice we can't do anything until they actually file the paperwork that they're going to retire until they've filed that paperwork we can't we can't do it because they mean say no i'm not really going to retire on december thirty first  december twenty ninth they could say that right so you know that one of the challenges we have but by looking taking the time it does take a little bit more time but looking at the structure wild vacant is a lot easier to move things around while they're  and some of it's civil service some of it's union agreed and i understand that because as when i was deputy director of planning it was horrible to try and get somebody especially at that caliber at that professional level to wait six months or so but when you mentioned administrative rules those are our administrative rules right some of them are ours and some of our state rules i believe that ok you know because we have control over our and straight to a certain extent yes correct  unlikely i would think policy committee would be the one to have the jurisdiction to review we personell department you know you know we keep talking about it in different committees it might be worth something that we we want to just take a long hard look at not in budget session you know have a committee if it's mr victoria's committee have have them come and go through the process and see what we can do as my teens everybody should be audited and it might be worse i mean that might be the ultimate thing but it might be worth having the discussion first in in the appropriate committee so if we could do it or you know you  at this time members with no objection to cheers going to interrupt or business agenda at this time we have a special guests that we would like to give some recognition to so means she gets to go play she gets to play carnegie hall she's the only one first ever musician selected from maui and the second ever from hawaii to have this prestigious selection to be part of one hundred fourteen member orchestra i believe that she will be taking and nine city tour including china and she's a graduate of king kaleka high school and so she is very much so the pride of mao we i've seen her play when she was very small i know the family well your grandfather would have been very very proud would be smiling right now i remember seeing you play a very very young girl and now you're graduating from high school and moving on in life best wishes from the council and if any other member like to your well wishes  county community can appreciate her achievement and if there's anything you like to present our requests for i would ask if you would consider doing it now i would also like to request kiss if she if you could show us some of your talent that would be wonderful you know before you leave us and if from now you would like to hear that news orchestra is full of musicians from all over the nation and they're usually the concert masters of their own orchestras are the section leaders and when you have all of them on one stage plus a little more with the staff and even some managers at that you know helped assad along the way and it is i'm so honored to be here and thank you so much for giving me this plaque and it's amazing thank you thank you very much yeah yeah right there would be fine thank you the space i guess is that you're in the water a country well i'm definitely proud to be the area representative i know that we really don't know as a country there is there there are the people and this show continue the business of the committee we are currently under review of be a forward to which is under budget implementing the implementation report presented by mr bones budget and we're talking about the time that is involved in it and i want to say that i'm in support of the idea of taking a really hard look at this you know it's been this way forever and it certainly hasn't changed since i got here i've always had concerns about this big time lapse from when we lose an employee and when we actually get one and it doesn't happen all the time but it happens a lot and my concern is that you know what i'll we're shuffling paper we have a vacancy and it means there's strain on the people that have to pick up the slack and there is an inability to do more and people wait and so this is not a good thing now i don't know how we can change this because i'm sure you know people that have spent more lot more time and skill than more knowledge trying to solve this problem but it's a real issue for us and i wouldn't really like to see is invest the time in taking a look at if there's any any way there's got to be some creativity some way somewhere you know it means having not to do things the way we always do them but we need to solve this problem is not good for anybody also is money sitting that we've allocated that should be used for what it was allocated for so i'm in strong support you thank you for your thoughts mr carroll any comments or questions mr victory no thank you very much i agree with what my colleagues have said and i've already instituted a p f to go through a lot of this discussion because this is not something new this has been going on for quite a while so you can be assured much of the culture that is already been done and we will be bringing this up very shortly like we did yesterday i believe yesterday was a great opportunity to understand better the various aspects that we went through and i think this is what's very much the public and the council needs to know what's going on by the various departments and how they handle these various issues you know so hopefully in the next few months we'll be able to out and have a real good discussion and i'll guarantee you whatever meeting this will be agenda it would be the only thing the only item agenda is that day just so that we can spend the time reviewing it so thank you before that so in the department of management there's a staff services assistant position that is interviews are conducted an offer made the anticipated filled august first and  an information systems analyst position an incumbent resigned they request to fill was submitted maybe to two d p s and then dissipate the fill date being october first so it may take you know a couple of months to do the recruitment and do the interviews and different things like that so there are different stages anticipated field date is what the department typically you know the length of time it typically takes them to go through the process from where are step they're at when they do this report ok so if it has interviews have been conducted then it's going to be a very quick feel anticipated feel date if they're just starting the process of getting it approved for posting selection and it could be is simple as not having to wait for someone to resign officially on paper but i'm not sure how the logistics work on that but it takes to fill a position as one of their measurements and i am sorry the chief left because one of the areas that was of concern for me is if you look at the department of police they had a lot of things are based on his ability to recruit c notice he reference on personnel is for the upcoming eighty third recruit class for a same it's about on the civilian side where i think  a big signal to us as a legislative branch if you look at the piece that has the emergency services the specters there are a critical component to nine one one and the ability to respond for fire not only police but also for ambulance services and it is a difficult job at those people do and look at the vacancies it's like what general february march i mean something they're trying to fill five or try and extend it to five positions but if i note here it's not there as far as there is one field attendant anticipate the august twenty fourth teen i don't know for what district but the closures or the early closures for a landfill is always due to stuff shortages  so is is that a result of this list or why is it it missed it or do they have requests to fill positions and if so should it so those positions wouldn't have been available to to fill necessarily yet i did and they did send the manpower requests to my office and we did approve them and send them to d p s i don't know what the current status is of that today but they did request to fill those all those new positions that were approved so the anticipated field date of august twenty fourth i guess not for the fire management available right now in our and our public yeah i definitely understand that and so i do especially with hot topics like this keep an eye on them make sure that they're requesting to fill the positions right away and that they do you know work on filling these these are the positions are typical positions in the county it's not like that their new positions an organization structure  they do have to do a reorganization because it's adding a position to that structure it's kind of sad that they have to do that but that's part of the process believe they went through that as well and then  you know recruitment and filling would just depend on on the people that apply we do have occasion sometimes where we go through the process the recruitment interviews job offer and they don't start for at some people just don't show up on the first day of work and other people don't pass pre employment requirements or different different things so they get better job offers because it took so long to recruit we've had that happen before i had that specific  somebody that wanted to recruit he or i took another job because it took too long but that's just you know yeah and some of the situations we deal with in each individual position we'd have to discuss with the department and maybe chair  cochran of the infrastructure my mental management committee would like to bring up that in that department as a possible and you know i guess one of the questions that comes to my mind when you look at the item you mentioned emergency services dispatcher and the police department overall  we have significant recruitment and retention challenges and i just wonder whether the police commission or administration is taking a look at whether the nation levels to what degree are the compensation levels of driving or challenges with recruitment and retention because you look at the nine positions for emergency services dispatcher none of those vacancies are caused by resignation and so it's a you know it's a high stress job for probably a good portion of the time that you're there and it brings a question are we properly compensating somebody for that additional stress and that training that is required to properly do that job we have and we've had this retention and recruitment problem in the police department for a long long time  and we don't seem to be addressing that effectively if we're simply waiting for the union to come and knock on the door and say this is what we need so i maybe when mr victory no brings up the overall issue in his committee he can since a police department comes under his committee's purview they were going to have an added discussion about various ways that we might be able to it's you know i mean unfortunately our salary schedules are set by bargaining agreements and we can adjust them on occasion due to certain circumstances when it's difficult recruiting like this emergency dispatcher where we can't hire above the minimum but and i believe that the police commission has reviewed with the department the activities of recruitment and retention and they understand the same thing you do is it's a difficult job  and it's a difficult problem they're dealing with retaining employees i know one specifically took at the voluntary demotion just because it was very difficult to be an emergency dispatcher  and it was challenging for her so you know yeah unfortunately that's that's a part of a job that the county has to do that isn't so nice right now but we definitely agree  one quarter or two quarters of a fiscal year to fill i'm sure it's going to just their budget accordingly so is this something that they've already been able to work with you or are you going to ask them to see if they're going to budget accordingly based on you know projections of of unfortunately you know higher overtime costs versus the savings from regular salaries and wages and that's something that is monitored  s i get stacks of stuff from most every day that my my team works on you know jen phillips i just want to mention you know she is one takes in and looks at these very specifically for that you know so if a position is budgeted for fifty two thousand and they decide they need to reclassify it and it's going to be fifty eight thousand dollars you know that six thousand dollars has to come from somewhere so  you know before you know we left it up to departments a little bit more because you know it was more program based budget where you know they had a little more fluidity between the operations if it was going to save them some operational costs to have this position be reclassified then you know that would make sense now that a b c restrictions are in place very specifically we make sure that they are reviewing the actual positions in their department and identifying to my office where that savings is going to come from so if they have to come up with that six thousand dollars they have to come with with it someplace and so occasionally it might be from you know we you know we've been been vacant for you know we are prosecuting attorney's office the third thursday two positions here that's a status of personal actions and says unknown and i want to preview the other departments this is the only one this is the only department that has the unknown category are described as unknown in the status of personnel actions what does that mean they just  that means i don't we don't know you know so that means they didn't report to us what the current status is  so the next section of our report is the fiscal year two thousand fifteen budget implication report for the quarter ending you know june thirtieth of twenty fifteen for performance measures as we review the but proposed budget during budget deliberations we discuss the goals and measures of the departments and so after the council has adopted the budget these tables are created so that we can track of different parts and hold them accountable to you know if there's certain things they're doing i'm going to pick on my buddy over here and we can go through the corporation counsel department over there if you so if you go to the third page there if you start off to the left hand side it's got departments mission right so this is the overall department mission and it's to support county government by providing legal advice and representation that promotes public interest and promotes the county wide strategic priority priorities so they have a legal services program that does that and they have a program goals so you'll see goal number one if actively managing control fifteen so you see a program objective number one lower the average cost paid per worker's compensation claim by three percent by the end of the ensuing fiscal year so the decrease in average cost paid per claim is a success measure and for f y fourteen since it was a new measure you see that there's thirteen in fourteen there's no data but for fifteen there was an estimate of the three percent which is what we started off with  year quarter one and two they hadn't seen any decrease but quarter three they saw a fifty five percent decrease in the average cost paid per claim and at the end of the year it was a sixty seven percent  average decrease an average of cost paid for claim that's significant because the year before we had some pretty significant workers compensation claims due to the issues you know about so yeah so the  performed objective to raise awareness by providing annual training and education to personal county wide so the percent of employees trained by risk management vision annually they estimated that we're going to do we're going to ten percent of our twenty five hundred employees and it looks like here they have go early looking at sixty six percent of the employees being trained various ways in risk management safety activities we do  r first aid training and different things like that the third program objective is to reduce the worker's comp frequency rate from three percent from the prior year and the total new number of workman's comp claims reported  you'll see that we estimated you know we were trying for again for that three percent decrease and the year to date was the end of the fiscal years one thousand percent decrease in the total number number of workers compensation claims so that's  something that you know they're way over there estimated three percent decrease and then it goes on goal number two continue to maintain and minimize need for costly outside assistance with claims and legal proceedings against the county they want to reduce the number of hours spent in meetings by three percent and so they do that by the percentage measuring the percentage of a number of attorney hours reduced for board commission meetings u nfortunately the you know they've had estimated three percent reduction and they haven't had that reduction because my buddy over here has to sit in lots of boards and commissions he thinks so then another measure of is the number of attorney hours reduced for council and council committee meetings and you know again that's unfortunately that's it you know they're here doing what you need to do so that's the time it takes  number percent of amount of contract payments reduced for special counsel and initially the first couple quarters you see that it was significantly reduced but unfortunately with a lawsuit like the one we're dealing with in west maui the costs went up so we haven't been able to reduce the the special counsel so each one of these might be we can go through each one is but i want you to understand you know where these numbers are coming from and how then we are looking into the director of the corporation counsel then is reviewing these to be able to determine you know operations of his department and how maybe they should be changed  or or not change and then also from a management perspective we review these on occasion to look at you know are there something that they're doing that they shouldn't you know that maybe we should do a little bit better or something they're doing wonderfully and we can praise them for that in so you know each one of these departments have you know again this is based on the budget proposed budget that we produce the performance measures mr couch likes to to always have question about performance measures w e're going through the departments and the outcome of this is something that we allies for you know next year as we're reviewing the department's budgets you know we want to reward departments through doing well and we want to to discuss departments that are having challenges what those challenges are and how to over overcome those challenges so just like a personnel performance evaluation this is a performance evaluation on the departments themselves so maybe if  know this is a lot to absorb right now but especially for your committees that you have you know subject matter areas that you want to review or there are certain departments that you want to to look at to read these and you know we can go through maybe some questions right now if you'd like war at a later time mr chair if it's your your interest from the members to have a certain department here we can discuss those performance measures and it be really nice to do that before we get into budget so that you have a good understanding of how those departments are operating how you're holding them accountable before discussing the financial objectives that they're going to have towards the next fiscal year thank you very good director thank you for workers compensation for him by three percent yet to date after fourth quarter sixty seven percent so to me they did a pretty good job what did they do to get such a good success is significantly enhanced the communication on the ability to for us to work with the servicer in the employee to make sure they know that the claims are correct in that we're doing the best thing we can to get them to work quicker you know if if it's light duty or something like that getting back to work different things the amount of training that they're doing has made a significant impact to the safety training in doing things to you know if somebody is made aware of potential safety hazards then and they see those potential safety hazards then they can address those before there's an issue and so that's something that we would like to promote so yeah you're correct in that we do want to highlight the things that are they're doing well and you know we pretty much leave it up to the departments to do that internally if they're being very successful in certain areas i do like i asked that specific question and that's why i knew the answer was because of those those specific ideas of because i thought that was a wonderful thing that was happening to reduce our  and so we want to you know praise them for that an understanding of how they're doing it better and in different departments in different areas we see the same thing and you know sometimes it's a division chief in their staff that just really have you know good initiatives and we want to be able to copy those to the other areas as well and we want to see where there are successes and grow those success thank you yes i would agree with you  and fourteen with an estimate of seventy nine thousand tons in two thousand and fifteen the actual was fifty seven thousand so that's down significantly from two thousand and thirteen and fourteen similarly the rate of diversion is down from forty two point nine forty two point nine down to thirty seven point four and the number of public presentations is down it's been cut in half from six to three and then on maintain except a number of days the landfill is open  even though we haven't changed the we've actually increased their staffing levels we've gone from twenty two days in two thousand and fourteen we've got a projection of eleven days in two thousand and fifteen but the actual was ninety nine days you know some of these are partial closures but that just seems like a really big jump when they've got the same or more staffing questions i'm still trying to absorb di i'm looking at parks and recreation on the enforcement side the permit and enforcement section and the program objectives  i don't see anywhere where there's a measure of success where you're issuing citations from park rangers because that's part of the enfor it's all educational awareness to the public but i think enforcement needs to be part of the success measures how many citations are issued as well  number of statements issued monthly ok yeah thank you for that so and that is something that i would like to track because it seems like yes it's a good number to track i don't necessarily know if we want to tell them they're performing good if they're issuing more citations but you know they don't have to have a quota of citations that's the issue but to make sure that they're doing their job and you know number of inspections is important the number of educational opportunities to tell people they're doing something wrong is i report or the accuracy of the report where it says on that one number average number of citations issued monthly first quarter twenty fifteen is five second quarter seventeen when that year to date numbers third reports but it could be ab believe there's there's somebody new in the parks department that is actually producing this report so maybe it's something that should cut from it so these are manually entered things in yes spreadsheet kind of thing yes we have a  q drive our q drive is a drive that's shared with a cost to the county we have excel spreadsheets with all this information in and we we unlock the column that they're entering that month in and we lock up the rest of the questions for departments we can you know we're either schedule that in committee or send requests to the departments as well but i'd be happy to go over this individually with you as well i know this is a lot to absorb but it's something that is a good  measurement tool something that you know if it's in county code it's been in there for a while so that as a budget implementation report so that you have good information to make decisions and really you know my goal from when i started four years ago was to provide you with good information so you can make the best decisions at the moment and i hope that i continue to work towards that goal as well thank you very much  of the new year is there any challenges you wish to share regarding the departments now need to be a little bit more detail and thoughtful in managing are the ones who are adopted into the system so that we can start tracking them for the new process i think there was some performance measures that were new this upcoming year that are going to be more beneficial sometimes measuring you know accountability as far as the implementation of the actual budget and how the departments are managing the restrictions that were put in place i did have a meeting with the departments a few weeks ago  it's a term that you know we used in a financial perspective from salaries wages operations and equipment but something you know as a program objective they didn't really understand so i had to explain his decision to them and what we're working on is  you know i've asked them for the detailed review of their spending plans to see if the are going to be having challenges and i set a deadline of september for them to review those and get back to me if they are going to have significant challenges so that we can bring it in in a timely manner to the committee and discuss and then also for preparation of the fiscal year seventeen budget which i'm sending instructions out next week friday as m instructions out if you can imagine that we have community meetings coming up in september is to really to have them have a better understanding of the definitions of certain thing what's repairs and maintenance what's capital  know so what is a b account what is the c account so that they're looking at it from a clearer perspective of an understanding so that when we present the budget to you they have a better idea of where that money is supposed to be budgeted  're looking for so that would be my suggestion to all the standing committee is not good you know this is one way we could assist them in getting what they need done as far as the review that i plan to do is really in the overall scale and what  nation our positions in addition you know all of the different aspects that we've discussed but each department has their own unique needs and i think we should follow up by by the various committees and make sure that and give presentations on what his plans were and she ip personnel needs and it seemed to have worked well well and helped me me as far as when she came at budget time so i would suggest that to all the standing committee thank you chair thank you goodman yeah i think it's imperative that we do have accountability based off of measures of success but my question would be how do you then verify the accuracy o some of these reports you know when they're i mean getting back to enforcement now the citations yeah you mentioned earlier that there there may have been a mistake or in putting different variables that may not have come up accurately so what is to say that yeah we are the checks and balances but then they can always inflate their inputs what is that what is the verification there i mean i understand the measurements and the ability for us to hold the departments accountable but then how do you verify the data  think there are some ways that we can verify the data i mean we could go back and look at their citation books and see how many stations they're actually issuing and different things like that you know it's really the department director responsibility to manage their departments and verify that those are a kurd you know the managing director and i do you know occasionally because you know something gets told to us or you know we see that there's a possibility of discrepancies have on occasion held departments responsible for fixing something that you know may be reported a different way but you know it's human nature to going to miss stuff once in a while in and unfortunately i would hope that there's no malfeasance in providing information that's incorrect but we we do we don't have a short answers and we don't have a specific way to verify that make sure that all these measures are accurate but with anecdotal information reports that we get to us on certain things then we can go in the back and verify specific individual items you see there's you know of performance measures in here so it would be hard to verify every single one of them i am looking at a dashboard system so that we can provide that information to you know readily available to department directors as well as to the council members and to the general public so and and with that information being available then there may be some additional level of accountability because somebody who's very interested in that specific topic  of course if if if your department you want to be able to show to the council that you are completing or you're succeeding in the measurements so that therefore your budget will be more accommodating to your requests the other hand is ok if we come up with bad measurements bad or not succeeding in the measurements then what happens do  then as a council not appropriate the the fines that they're looking for or what it what is the incentives what are the carrots and what are the i wouldn't say punishments but the aware of what it means it shouldn't be an isolated measurement i think that comedians need to participate with at the rector's and help develop meaningful measurements that help you make the right decision whether to be for performance or whether it be for finance from the fiscal standpoint i think that is what i think is that we can do and show from the council site our willingness to work with the departments because i would agree some of the i was it can be revised and improved but that's something i would ask for you to make those recommendations back to budget committee you spend more time with your measurements proposal we have some recommendations or what and you may say i would i think we need to refine this or delete this this at but i think those measurements on the road would then help you make the right  effectuate you know budgets and the program implementation there are certain municipalities that if the perform if they're not performing they do cut their budgets but we're using it more as a tool to say if they're not performing what is that their need to change in their operations to get them to do performance you know so just a punitive you know we're going to cut your budget by fifty percent because you're not performing is still not going to provide services to the community right so i mean there are certain mandated you know things that we have to do for the community that we really want to make sure get done in the best manner so we use these as a management tool and as a council you can be looking at these when you're reviewing the departments and saying you know somebody was performing well maybe you do give them another opportunity maybe they want to do a new initiative or something like that and somebody who's not performing tell them no you you know we prefer that you focus on your core activities than these ancillary activities that you'd like to do and and we have done that specifically i can tell you with some of our departments that they wanted to do something that was innovative kind of a neat idea but they're not doing one of their core functions to our satisfaction so we told them no we're not we don't want you to focus on that yet get get your core functions up to speed and then maybe we'll talk ancillary function and so you know and that's that's something that sheryl camas mentioned zero based budgeting was zero based budgeting isn't necessarily just that you zero out their budgets it's that you take their budget and say every aspect of that budget needs to be discussed and evaluated and seen whether or not it should be funded and so to evaluate properly you need to have some kind of tool to do that  them coming in and asking for less money than last year isn't necessarily the best tool to say they're doing a good job or not i mean yes we want to reward performance in being more efficient but if they're doing if they're spending less because they're not  you can discuss this with me you can sit down in your office and and go over individually well i did make a statement to this committee and the members that i would bring up  periodic me the review of the implementation of the a b c accounts because it's something new and different for us and i would rather be able to be preemptive and make appropriate adjustments earlier than  and then have the community suffer because of the processing requirements so i'm going to ask when objections we defer this because i would like to bring back mr buzz in a near future again to give us an update maybe at the  beginning of the second quarter on how budget implementation is working for the departments so that we can plan to make whatever appropriate adjustments are required to make a budget no objection kate thank you very much recess ten minutes then fifty we should bring the budget and finance meeting back to order please members let us move to i don't fourteen dish three this is under the heading of short term investments  much older than the state and well enough to be able to manage a percentage of their cash portfolio with a higher level of managed risk or by you don't jeopardize the hopeless foleo but reasonable and manage reassess certain amount to be able to get the returns that the county feel is reasonable and we can defend to our community in text base so with that i'm going to how we can support the department in a amending the law since we're governmental entity the state employee retirement system is the government and yet they if you know if you have to do it through the same due diligence process i'm fine with that allow us to have those opportunities to make reasonable returns on our cash so mr walker if you are mr cope maybe and share some thoughts from the departmental point of view please thank you chair mark walker deputy director of finance committee members well as you know we're we are what we can invest in is controlled by  by statute and as you learned in our i think i believe the last meeting before this committee on this subject we are working with senator auger ron to try to expand what has been given to the state as relates to what they can invest in to include the counties as well that is still very limited and to the degree that this  want us to have other opportunities we could we could certainly provide us some information that might allow you to help us support that with the legislature if that was your intent i think what we're talking about now is were were very limited on the types of inference we can buy mostly government backed government secured if you're talking about buying equities whether you know or other types of investments we would certainly assist you if that's what you wanted to do the chair and i talked briefly at recess and and he's talking about potentially if we went in that direction and again it's an h r s as you have to be approved by the legislature but maybe putting some caps on the percentage that you could invest in any of these types of things maybe as low as five percent or ten percent kind of stuff but  thank you chair a couple of points just to get a historical context h r s thirty six twenty one in the statute the state operates under two invest in the short term investments of cash that they have prior to needing for their annual budget forty six fifty which was identical is my understanding at their conception and somewhere around ten years ago thirty six twenty one was upgraded to add some additional agencies and that's what we're trying to get done at this point in time with this legislative session and hopefully that will happen additional instruments that we might look at we can see if we look around some of the other counties in california was looking at monterey bay to the top and using that because it's in a one p one rating which is  years but that would give us a little bit higher yield if we could get into some of those things the restrictions on the amount is not a bad idea and that that only ensure that we're focused to a most of our money where we can be assured that it could come back t extremely highly rated commercial bonds are very safe investments as well but they do give you a little bit better yield the only other thing i can think of is we could do a full analysis and try to get s money versus what we have there is a difference in the nature of the money the money that each are is thirty six twenty one that the state has and the forty six fifty for the counties is taxpayer dollars in any way they want the taxpayer dollars has a different level of do share responsibility and that's one of the reasons i think originally there were the concern constraints put on a person is what's on the i'll open it up to questions from the members if you have any misplaced thank you very much and thank you very much mr welcomes tickled for being here this morning i need some education maybe you can help me what is the expected return or the idea return that you want to see on th of course we'd like to be as high as we possibly can i think you've probably noticed that we've been increasing every quarter and i can assure you from what you're seeing from the last quarter is behind us and we're much above that already in this quarter i think in the current market will probably max out somewhere around one point two five to one and a half percent i'm anticipating being in the mid eighty's at the end of this first quarter so we are rising up in the future as rates change if they go what we will rise up with them better way to look at it councilwoman is what is the horizon that we're expecting to be able to make we're investing maximum doing for a time out to five years but we have liquidity issues what i'm trying to do is get us through that were around about a three year horizon for the overall portfolio and that's probably pretty good number to look at in right now the three years is somewhere between one and two percent depending on what type instruments you're looking at i think going into the equity that is on the two percent side thank you that's pretty clear i mean oh i understand that you know there's much more out there but then you have all these restrictions on what you can do so we've got to be safe with people's money and so that's our big responsibility but i was curious just  taxable municipal muni bond for example like out of honolulu would be about two point two percent we don't pay taxes so we get the two point two percent but that's pretty unusual to get most of the stuff is right around one seven five to two percent and five years about one six five four four years one three five four three years and then drop down around one percent for two yeah and it's just so hard to swallow when you get these bank statements and you look at these one percent things you know it's really disappointing but that's the market we're dealing with so it's bank you thank you mr carrol erik's forty six fifty and he has a listing in that particular statute that tells us what we can and cannot invest in and basically we should we try to stay within the guidelines there discern vestment consultant you work with you know we have an investment committee that meets in reviews all the investments that we're doing i think that was one of the subject matters in our finance both already two invests the statute also allows the director to lead a investment committee and in th language it's states managing director director of finance pretty director of finance and the treasurer those four signatory signatories for the county and are considered the county's investment committee all along we triggers a count to three this is in black and white and i'm reading members and one of the interesting thing is that i would say for those of you and i don't know if you should have a copy this is i have a looking at a july thirty first response from finance to made that letter dated july twenty fourth so mortgage notes to no as things come up and we realize or might be an issue then we would go ahead and revise but as a as a procedure as a formal procedure looking at procedures as we don't have anything th is that we want on a certain time line review with the intent of just reviewing but our procedures really aren't haven't changed that much if at all  so you know it's is you folks have to meet at least once annually to determine strategies and monitor investment results as well as the committee will review quietly investment reports so during those meetings it's a cop mr walker and anything regarding procedures or changes that we need to be aware of the committee it was looking at nineteenth fifty's and include securities that no longer exists as well the securities in which the county can no longer invest such as sallie mae auction security and that's why my question of the hof and i reviewing it because there's things that are authorized but doesn't exists doesn't make sense for us to be held to something that's all they  are we missing opportunities for the county and i and a gentleman you know you and i know we all watch money the last two years pharmaceutical sector has been a growth sector but that's not something we can even consider has changed investment has changed are we having a policy in practice that is outdated and doesn't serve the county in two thousand and fifteen chair or so i think our method for evaluating things is is solid now whether the instruments are outdated and i agree with you there is there is some major problems there and there's things we can do to improve one of those is what we're doing right now with the aid of the senator rather on is trying to least get upgraded so that we match thirty six twenty one that that will be a major improvement at this point in time the chair we are having times at different times we go to get a maturity of a certain time where we cannot find any paper and that's amazing when you think about it and we've had to go ahead and then step back and take a different month an inferior position on that particular investment today so having those additional instruments will help us at least have a shot at finding something that in the timeframe that we're looking ok so that's one if we can go ahead and know after this process happens talk to the other counties in the state in then work with the legislature to open up some additional avenues for us i think we can do better in fact i know we can do better i like the happen there's another thing we're not doing that we can consider writing the yield curve and what that is is you buy out at five years because as our maximum in the current market we have a very steep short term yelled and when this thing gets back to that starts dropping down that yield curve as you'll drop sounds the price goes up we could sell instruments early and pull again this is especially helpful if we're going to pull the money out of the a portfolio because then we just take the entire thing over to are operating accounting is that there will be been doing as a practice is letting things run to maturity so what you see you haven't done any package from i mean his practice is oh no we're not allowed to do anything like that usually has a lot of leverage associated with it and that's a tremendous amount of exposure i wouldn't recommend that even in the future unless we get very sophisticated but the corporate bonds would be a good area another one is the question i'm working on one to be supportive of what the department like to at least try is the minimal maybe we need to ask for something a little higher on the bar so that when we come down at the end of the day will get something better than what we've got low nine of nine of the portfolio market value and accrued interest all funds combined preach what is the first part of ninety nine of nine thousand and they think you got it a the grand total it shows that and i'm reading it that market values which would be our starting value accrued interest and then total you that we accrued four hundred twenty seven thousand dollars on two point two hundred thirty two million dollars of investment is that right so i have to look at the report that if i did the math i think the eighteen it's eighteen basis treasury securities yeah i guess it says treasury securities what i'm that's just the last one a this is this bottom one looks like a grand total of all of them right you're looking at the top portion the very bottom line the very last line on page nine of nine yeah and pretty significantly down in the page because nine of nine were coming up not having anything on there so yeah on the portfolio market value and accrued interest report if you could receipt your question please yeah the question is am i reading that the four hundred twenty seven thousand is interest that we accrued on two hundred thirty two million two hundred thirty three million dollars and if so that seems to be eighteen basis point you know that's the crude interest that's not the earned interest there's a difference ok mr cope if you could explain if you look at the market value ok a cruel of of interest is only a component of what happens how we generate interest earned interest we also have a change in the value of the of the mint the different components now this accrued interest here is associated with that a cruel of the change in the market value of the instrument but the interest earned interest is self is a second  different than this like if you go and you buy a cd for ninety nine dollars and it pays you five dollars interest to year and it rises one dollar you're look this is the one dollar going place ok this is of this use this report right here basically is a check against the other reports but this isn't the real good working report if you look at the one that's called investment earnings in the interest book that's where you can actually see the real data where would that be that's the  ning of the document i think it's your second document and some of these reports are just flat out confusing to try to explain to him this one right here the investment in earnings in interest books his view is the one that's clear and if you go to the very last page of that one forty seven to forty all right about there it's sixty seven and a half basis points that's the real yield for the portfolio for the year ok if you look above it there is your four hundred fifty one once again that's quarterly amount so in this one quarter we are in the total amount of interest of five hundred seventy nine thousand we had one hundred thirty five thousand dollars worth of premium that had to be amortized drops it down we also had seven thousand four hundred dollars worth of accretion of discount that's when we bought it less than one hundred and one up and that left us with a total of four hundred fifty one thousand dollars worth of earned interest for the quarter ok so that is there any report like this it can tell us you know because we're not all accountants you guys are getting way into the technical portion now is there a report that we can go at the end of the year which you know june thirtieth at the end of the fiscal year this is how much we had in the bank this is how much we are in an interest in this is now the new amount of having  well we know how much is in by looking over the par and book values on the other side but that's just that's sort of the basis right but i could run i could do a run for the entirety of the year yeah i would think that th is body would like to know at the end of the year ok yeah we we made sixty seven basis points to you know if that's the case if we're looking at five times two million dollars last year was a little bit less than two million this year we're already on the two million dollars course ok so doing that times month we did one hundred seventy some thousand dollars for july ok as a non accountant type guy i would like that would be the kind of the information i would like to know by the end of the year if it's possible i don't know if i can generate a report showing you exactly the dollar amount of interest but that would be helpful he will forward a letter to finance culture has been asking is you know the exec them or the amount that we end up after the year as far as inches you're seeing at this point we have well over to me over two million what do you know i'm sorry go ahead now you know i thought that if i made a mistake we did one hundred seventy thousand plus interest in july ok you multiply that by twelve that's over two million dollars ok that's july of this year this year some gets on this year this year last year yeah so we're projected at this rate if not the major changes to make over to minas about five hundred thousand more than we made last year and we should do better than that because we're on the rise we're on the right yeah ok so this will be the lowest the a reconciliation and reconciliation we have the exact dollars of interest that was generated in that period i'm for every month that we have to do is some together we can give you a report and am i correct in asking  that this monies have to be very liquid the quotable so that we can pull it out anytime we need it is this what this is all about right this is this is a short term investment for money's whenever you need it we can pull out yeah i that's what it is what we try to do is we try to forecast our cash needs in our cash flows coming in and going out and when we look at that and we figure out how much we have to have in our operating accounts  remainder of the cash then can be invested so the first step in any of this type of a program this is what we started with three years ago we built a forecasting model ok once that was accomplished we started taking the residual amounts of money that we had over what our budget over what our expenditures required and we began to invest them filling in the pool cues in between in the portfolio and then expanding it out and what you're seeing now with the portfolio increasing in year old is the expansion now as we have much greater confidence in our ability to forecast our cash flows ok very good which took up i look forward to seeing how this continues to benefit the people of my county thank you signals more that's why it's going to happen is there something we need to adjust in the portfolio on a short term basis because of the potential positioning of the f one of the things about the portfolio is on a monthly basis we're having maturities occurring if the fed or if there's any impetus to increase rates we will be able to benefit from the maturities that we're having because will be reinvestin them into a higher market so that's one of the ways we can cover that the only other thing we could do is either bring more money into the portfolio from the operating accounts or sell out of some of the other positions early and then reinvest them and those be the methodology is that would give us a higher yield at that point but the way it's structured is to go ahead and take advantage of any changes in yield because we have this constant a pretty good i would say balance for the portfolio it's getting better right now we're moving into the ninety's ok so as opposed to sixty seven and a half there we will be in the one percent range before the end of this calendar year so things are beginning to operate the way it was in vision in the first place it just took some time to be able to stabilize everything out and then be able to stretch it ok very good very good and then the questions members before we end discussion on this item today heavy members again will continue thank the council accounts chair and then the budget chair for your support with the legislative actions in movement so we're trying to do it's very very much appreciated but we thank you since you know it helps the confirmation today of when we're going to have our agency a rating agency presentations which is looking like september eleventh and the fourteenth which is a friday and  course invite the committee if they're interested in attending those reading three different agencies come to town what we're trying to achieve as far as a bond float is and i think we've identified to the committee and past correspondence is a significant savings in doing some refunding which is the majority of what the bond proceeds will be used for but also we've reserved at this stage subject to change about fifteen million in new money because we've already spent close to thirteen million i think in general fund monies on c a p projects so we could use money for at that what we think are still very good rates but as you mentioned is today but you know it changes daily and so i think that's roughly yeah it's a competitive but one thing that i wanted to ask you for allowing the other committee members for their question utilizing federal monies for s r s and water plant projects so is part of the bottom flow being going to be reviewed and readjusted to make use potentially of this p a statement to put out in the media that if a white doesn't spend it they going to take it just take it away and i don't know if you had a copy of those members recently but i'm happy to make it available to  notice during the last couple of budget deliberations most of the borrowing for water department and for the wastewater division of the permanent arm of the management has been s r f loans there are certain restrictions as to what we can use the money for but based on those we do utilize those that as a funding source any time we can you know other than cash it's the next best financing model for range on the bond oh yes definitely i think it's around three quarter to one percent depending on the size of the project yet so the projects that we're issuing these bonds for most likely don't have to go back and review them but they most likely do not qualify for s r f loans because we are the county that utilizes this or a funding to the most out of any of the counties we in fact they continually come to us and say can we do more projects for you one of them ended up giving us a grant for i think it was two million dollars or something for a recycled water project that was supposed to be alone but they like th so much they gave us the money so and that's what it basically forgave you know that portion of the loan and that's sort of it can that be used to acquire root property too for water you know what a sore is what a i know i cannot be an expert in everything but this is one area that i'm very familiar with first and foremost we are the only county when it comes to water that has been continuously applying for s r s funds if you you come i remember once going to bring in a subject up because general bonds were much more advantageous interest rate twice and there's a fee in the fee was extremely high at one point they have brought that fee down because they  wants to borrow money and pay not only higher interest but a higher fee to use that money and then the other area that there was great concern was that e p a puts x amount of dollars per region  region one which is hawaii has been getting this amount steadily over the last ten us and i don't know exact dollars but it's been a stadium out and because of these roadblocks and also to answer your question as far as i know no real property can be bought with this fund it is strictly for cia and improvements to systems but water and weeks water and that is my understanding and you know as the government representative for the hawaii w association we have met a number of times with the department of health and their basic concern is we have these monies but the projects that are being brought forward you know don't qualify or are not large enough and there's also a arranged of  money that has to be asked for or ascertain so there's a number of factors so when the e p a sent this out a few months back they were jumping the gun and you know again you know saying that we don't utilize the funding we have been trying to utilize the funding however there are restrictions and the high interest rates have made it not very cost effective so now these changes that have come down you will see that more counties and more water departments will be jumping in for funds in that respect especially now just reached out to rice on the other side of the spectrum yeah so let me assure you that my we has been very very much a leader as far as applying for these funds as far as funds every and mr taylor can come down and give you down mounts and we have applied for and have been granted and as mr abbas mentioned even to the point where they gave us a grant instead of a loan for the west mali treatment  facility so molly stands very tall in that respect mr chair however e p a i think again sometimes jumps the gun and puts out statements like that to make them want the state to shake a little  and to make make us to move a little quicker with these funds you know want unless they do it right we don't want to get stuck with loans and fees that cost consumers or our constituents more money so that's my understanding of the situation over the last ten years or so just so that the public is aware that my county has been and continues to be a leader in that respect however when it was advantageous we do not want to be caught behind th