stands one nation under god indivisible with liberty and justice for the next item isn't struction zone exiting the building in case of an emergency you case of an emergency tonight we ask everybody to leave the conference room out the front doors and gather in the parking  lot south of the building if there is a reason we cannot get through these doors then please use one of these to exit leave and go out to the park tom and i will be read time poverty and i will be responsible for making sure the buildings clear so do not add an item on here other business to just have a brief discussion about really the things that you would like me to  promote and discuss with mayor weinberger when i meet with him with mayor leonard from when you so just really explore what some of the things i'm thinking and some ideas that fifteenth so we won't really have the opportunity to take any action on anything as a council but i certainly can convey security council's different issues and that is what i would  thank you next item is comments and questions from the public not related to the agenda are there any ok seeing none will move on to announcements and the city managers report so tom would you like to start sure i'd say attended anything nothing comes to mind but i will use this time just to promote this coming sunday the ugly sweater run for rotary's it's going to be images from orioles starting at nine a right right so we just ask you to get up and say we've got three people here for my services have been busted again to assemble stuff so i have made a decision because i kind of looked at this meeting as well but again tomorrow's meeting  but i wanted to just give you an update that megadeth asked about she hadn't seen the public notice as far as the meeting for tomorrow and i think we might be getting some of the meetings mixed up between the noise compatibility program and the ones it's open for i mean more for the public you know comment so i thought what i'd like to do is to just stump review the agenda for tomorrow so that everyone would be aware it's from five to six thirty at the airport and there's the welcome down they're going to review the the june seventeenth open house they'll be a public forum and comment period that we're going in there for a pub fifteen minutes there will be a region you draft of the agreements that i think people have been you know wanting to know what that involves and all and then the technical advisory committee will have questions and comments during the period and then at six thirty now that is the agenda as it has been the airport at the airport commission and and i think we turned this as a service but i'm sure they would give an opportunity for comment as we need to so  be happy to forward nick along those piece that came to me but the broader brush piece and i did ask i contacted our aviation director and said you know i think it's really important for our  public to know every meeting that's been held you know because if the f a a and i understand this is not the public forum type but nonetheless there was public on that time that people can g but i think the more our folks can be educated and have an opportunity to attend be an even the noise compatibility smaller group the advisory group or the larger one i think it makes them may not be quite the same as what's going to happen with the big public forum or type thing when the f a a is present but i think communication wise if that's the piece that we've had the problem with then i think communication as broad as we can is an advantage to ourselves polling to residents you know so i think it's really hard to come in for the public meeting on the final draft  this what what did get sent out to all of the folks coming the agenda the materials the presentation draft minutes and there is a video recording of the last meeting the post held on october seventeenth so i think that's important r or something about the development of that property so and basically i was gave them a pitch that we really need affordable housing built  that i think was a last minute of the second last meeting can't remember that mitigation cannot start until after all of those final thirty nine they're not new houses these are all under the old buy out but they have until december thirty first to make a decision if they are going to you know those last thirty nine people majority of whom are going to be understanding of the timing on this is this piece ends there will be some houses that will not be they'll be eligible to for that buyout but they have been given a little bit longer time because of their age the owners of the home so if you see a house coming down later on it doesn't mean that they have extended this this some purchasing that program will actually come to an end and then the mitigation begins now there have had the first and there's been a lot of communication between our superintendent and the airport director and a it's and i can't tell you whether yes the school will absolutely get all the mitigation that they need but none of the mitigation construct for any of the homeowners or any of the public buildings or anything until the program commences at the closing of one then the next one starts and they already had received the airport had received the money for the consultants for that they are in place the program is  designed so that the f a a wants to hear from the public as opposed to just the elected officials in the community as to what they would like this is what the open forum made and so for was compatibility piece separate type issue that has to be done that is required by the f a a to have a noice compatibility program completed so that they can go into the mitigation program so the item is while we would like it to happen yesterday unfortunately timing wise with the government of being involved what happens as we have about a six month period of time it's my understanding to have our meetings then the f a a takes all of that into consideration of what we are asking for for a minute geisha and and what they have a valuable under their programs then they get about a six month period of time to make a decision and this is when things would get started so unfortunately while we would like to have those i say done very quickly we are at the mercy of the government with us unfortunately time but as it starts my my hope is that it will seem to go quicker than what we are hoping for but you know when it time you deal with the feds and whatever the process is not quite there think this is the airport in the are very aware of the desire to have mitigation for the school that is out there and where the pecking order comes into play i don't know how that will happen but patience i guess is one of the items that you know is probably going to be harder for us to have with this but i think that's what we're going to have to have a some patience to see how we can get through this but once the mitigation program starts that means that the other program has been finished and though you may see a couple houses coming down after that it's all part of the old program ok if there's anything else that i can you know get area be quiet too so we can talk after  diane in terms of how the city's cordon ating with the school board kevin and i meet with the superintendent and elizabeth every couple weeks and that usually is one of the items that we discuss but but i just would note that we try to be careful and recognize that they have the responsibility an interest in their schools and it's really their issue it's not something that the city would necessarily move forward on without i mean we really need their leadership i guess in terms of advocating for requesting the noise mitigation for the school and they have done that and they'll share their correspondence with us so we're kept abreast then and we it's really two different governmental entities that need to work kind of together but but separately because the issues are a little bit different so that's how it gets and my point in bringing that to you the attention there is more as your representative to the airport you know commission from south bowling tell them the information that i get from them to share back here kevin davis the thames david attends couple times a week on a list of issues of common interest that's always a big so we coordinate quite closely on that but again it's all knowledge that's their school and we try not to get him t at five o'clock you have the u v i'm press release that i copied off for you just a couple of other things you should have received a an invitation from the o'brien brothers for a ribbon because you're all invited to that the attorney general has signed off found the union municipal district agreement to be consistent with state law is signed off on it so it is clear that hurdle and the next step in the process would be to bring this to you for your consideration to present to the voters in march and so i will have a packet to you next week well before getting the other potential member communities have it on their agendas this month as well so it's we're very pleased with that the c c r p c is having their legislative breakfast on tuesday i think you may have gotten an invitation to that i'm not sure that may have just gone out to the to the representatives of the communities it's a pretty good meeting like tomorrow or next tuesday tuesday like next tuesday  k the twelve twelve where it's at seven thirty at the doubletr r newest canine police officer rumble has developed some health or some structural issues with his legs oh and emails but is there i mean i know you don't share in mail lists with people maybe if you could just put it in the other paper so that other people in the community you know   they had thought maybe it was just growing pains that he was going through but apparently multiple opinions indicate not so it's too bad  him down now tom and i were over the library today we had lunch with the staff over there looking at their final plans they've been through the training of the new software program thank you thank you and think  sport of all the council thanked him for volunteering to help out that was much appreciated there's wednesday night there's going to be an appreciation a small appreciation event for the volunteers who helped out it's looking great over there it really is looking great there's a bunch of stuff around but they're going to pick that up and vacuum a little bit but it's looking great so we're looking at a soft opening in thursday and then a more formal hard opening in january after the holiday and last may have noticed if you came in the front door there are some reconstruction construction going on out front here where modifying what is the that was the assessor's office and is now the tax collectors office todd has moved up stairs we'll be putting in a window there that will be a general greeting area hope is to upgrade our customer service by ensuring that everybody who walks in the door is greeted today that was the noisiest part was trying to get that water cooler out of their staff and board a pretty noisy day but in a bar you know that work is done and it's exciting well greeting them like that seems to work for wal mart they have greeters so we can have greeters i think that that isn't necessarily are we got the idea but you're right about that question is your update on the auclair farm stat  of what's going on so we're hoping for some movement on this strictly i'm surprised that we hadn't had that but now you know it just seemed like there was such a  rush to you know to move this and we've met to move this and you know to to have to some well i understand that i thought that was a little quick it seemed to be that was their insistence to have that done specially well i'm just glad though because i think it was it's a complicated negotiation and process so i would rather that they spend probably a lot of money on legal advice but but negotiating this so that the final well i wasn't trying was a little good who was holding up the other side was that are our team type thing or the other i don't think we've been i don't think either has been holding things up i think i think the issues have changed for the family a little bit ok and are a little bit in flux and i think that will work itself out ok fair enough you know when you're talking about police stocks i just want you to know that i was at heathrow in london i was selected by the t s a to get a special screening oh really that was fun and then when we got to new york and we were getting our baggage this cute little beagle came sniffing around and i went no i have my daughter's bag i have no idea where things ever been in it and so this is and then and this relieved that it was meat product that he was looking for and i said oh it's a fact it's the sandwich there and there's an apple two and he said but you can't bring those things into the united states meat products or apples yes when i said well i have some treats it was cute all right moving right along the consented joined with the sign dispersement approval of the minutes of november sixth and twentieth approve the filing for grant for construction of the new storm water treatment practice near the intersection of woodcrest drive in dean st approve of filing for a grant that would cover design and construction costs associated with the retrofit kent kennedy drive pond seven and approved the heather field storm water system acceptance and related easements i would entertain e stormwater system except in some really easements go through before it comes to us so i'm assuming just and sees it are lawyers look over these documents or is this just do you want to know i've also seen these these forms before it comes to  at least three so justin time to originate with tom and and to peter and justin and then andrew takes a look at them or outside counsel depending on appeared before you maybe six weeks ago said this is just expect to see this coming actually constantly so a lot of work to do right well at least there's some good amount of federal or state dollar that is in irene approved culver no trace of the stream as it has a regular stream bed not just a dripping pipe the dice doing right in this is adjacent to that right which is just a little bit downstream up to the north which is one of those you know areas that has all this you know impervious surface that drains right into that same gully so that's this is good which is great care of this piece by piece is the way to do it already next item is update on the relocation and process first step listening dog park to do we have a little bit of an update i just thought i was in here for that discussion and it wasn't taped i'm sorry i'm not going to say that i had a phone call with one resident who was unhappy i received probably four to six e mails from people that were unhappy dog owners there was a lot of chatter and she's a dog owner she felt that there really hadn't been a problem and but i have a conversation with someone else who the father had but anyway this woman i  asked her how many dogs and had she used the airport area one behind picard circle and she said she had but she noticed that this was more in use the one at the park a chair seat and she said i did leave a couple of times when in the latter part of the afternoon there were around twelve dogs there and she said i talked to the people who three were from south burlington we have a new ski essex whatever other residents were there and i found it interesting and not that you know we limited it and said it had to be some point in dogs but she said that was the part and she said i felt that she said the area was small for the number of dogs that were there and she said that's why i left she said because when you have too many dogs in an area that's when you start getting into the problems but probably what i wanted to say since you weren't here helen was the item is that i thought the discussion that  interesting the majority of the counselors had gone and observed over at the park i certainly had i probably would have given certain timing i may have said i could have seen an extension because i know tom was you know for you know having a little longer period of time to let people know but i'd like to explain why i came up by i didn't feel that i knew that we're coming into winter weather if we're going to get anything moved then it's inappropriate to try to do it when the ground is frozen hard other than using the suggestion you had to say let's do some strong some fencing and what have you and that if we had made the decision that it was probably in the best interests that the park not be there that to delay it was not really serving a whole lot of purpose on the end and we really if if that had happened that night it would have been to split there would have been no action taken and i felt that we needed to do something to move peace forward the the other comment that i did get from someone was that they had been a little concerned because the children's playground was very close to the dog park and that the children seemed to sometimes with their parents would have gotten the dogs united or something but i also look and say i read and read all the things that came up i'm sure you had and it was sad to see it close i think some people are not aware of the fact that our two previous dr parks it was to no fault of our own that we don't have them that you know it's unfortunate that we don't have those however that and i know we had an expenditure to have this done and  sorry that we did that in retrospect however and looking at it i think what this has told us is that people are very interested in having parks i think more than i even  before but i would hope that it is more for our self rolling to dogs than it is for the neighboring communities so i thought sharing that piece i thought and the women surveyed everyone there and i thought that was an interesting land that has had and to find out where we have some opportunities to use land reality although that may not be great in that chamber the neighborhood unfortunately neighborhood that we have already purchased and kept open and if there is a reason because of either conservation or whatever we can't use that because of the wetland to whatever but i mean just to kind of rule out the ones that we can't residents looking at other passports of a heart but right now she's just assembling the committee i think that it will take some time i have strong doubts whether or not we would be able to do anything before the ground temporary interior and then you could move it again if you needed to slow down my understanding from maggie because i met her on the street somewhere and she has done a lot of research with other communities and has a mast sort of the guidelines that are there communities are using and my understanding is that that's what we've directed that the team to do is to come up with standards that other communities have adopted for our reviews of tension lee we would have guidelines and standards i guess so when we go to site another dog park or dog park because i think we need more than one more personally that it will be they'll be a process that's clear to the public as well as the requirements that we feel are important and you know to the point of the woman who said you know only three people from south burlington were there i mean we could have signs like you know for registered south burlington dogs and sort of encourage that the registration of animals because they're not all registered won't help the cats but it would work on the dogs and i hope that well they rather they would look at the fact of the registered registered piece because there have been circumstances not necessarily in ours but in others where one dog has been hurt by another dark and then somebody leaves you're not sure if they've had papers shots or whatever and where does the liability fall on to us you know if something comes up or the little kids come up and put th yeah it was one extra comment by the person that talked to me and she said she lives i think next to mr dickinson or one of those houses and she expressed a concern that there were taxi drivers or hoover or lift operators  parking in that area in lieu of being at the airport at very early hours like at four thirty in the morning perhaps which the park is supposed to be closed i would assume so maybe if you could ask chief were polled and maybe have some people drive by come on call and so that is the airport actually it is the taxi commission that you would want to deal with in the city point to bring up with the mayor but this is something that  quite a bit of research on other jurisdictions on ordinances permanent ordinances there are books written on this that she is researching and she's listed four or five different communities look at their origins so she's doing that learned just a couple things and i love the open space idea i would love to make sure everybody knows about our open spaces and their dog friendly and i completely agree that we need more dog parks and i think that could help address the concentration issue that we had  this one in my conversations with residents i just want to highlight one thing that i think is important for this whole body to hear since i said it to other residents president matters and i would say overturning a decision is a bad precedent so as to what we were asked to reconsider this notion and the council starts going back and forth on things that can be very problematic because then when you really count on what the council takes action on but for that same reason the president matters i just told them i would make this statement that i think it's a bad precedent to close a park so quickly and i would just future you know when they cross comes online we have issues with fireworks and so the center part comes online when residents have issues i would just be hesitant to want to act so quickly without collecting more feedback opinion from residents as well as city staff i just think we need to make sure the staff are heard because we're not running the city we're just setting policy and and and being responsive to the constituents so i just want to make that statement important to listen to the stuff and i appreciate that and if i had been a here i probably would not have voted to close it for that very reason it seemed a little click and i get concerned about setting precedents with you know just a very few vocal people making raising concerns and then having a pretty strong response immediate response well my friend i think we learned a lot from this so i don't believe this will happen again with dog parks and we can learn and use this with other decisions that we make that potentially can cause concern for our mind when i made when i made the motion that night it was actually i was leaning towards siding with tom and i'm waiting on that but i said i wanted in deference to what we were going to i wanted to have a date certain when we would have it my i think i mentioned  state and i didn't seem to get support for that so i thought otherwise this will die tonight if we do not have it so decision while i appreciate the fact of not giving notice i think we were all pretty much in agreement that it should be moved and so that it was only going to delay the inevitable ok thank you and we're next item and we're five minutes late i apologize it's a public hearing in potential approval to you with a little change in what you originally received other than some of the information regarding city center and that base the changes that were made in just that piece of it which is not related to the general fund because city centers in a special fund is because we've moved the vote from march to november so that doesn't change what some of those projections weren't quite other than that it's the document pretty much as you received it back the first time and certainly welcome any public comment or questions tonight about the c a p n along the has the entire package with her it's well over one hundred pages apologized to any members of the public that tried to access this past weekend because the file was so large that we needed you needed to copy and paste the link it just couldn't be a direct connection i can't explain i t stuff i don't know how that works but anyway it was a huge docu trial and you were still able to access it was one extra step i think you had to do to be able to pull the whole thing out a lot of has it with her and maybe once the public hearing is open having to respond any questions on that or questions from counsel so are there any can adopt a resolution amending the capital improvement program for fiscal years twenty one thousand through twenty twenty eight so loved the resolution was and i don't want to read the whole thing but it's in our was in the packet do you want to read no i don't think it needs to be read it just to resolve so that we have that on record ok so the result is that the city council hereby amends the capital improvement program by striking the twenty seventeen f by striking the twenty seventeen f y twenty seven amendment in its entirety the school year twenty one thousand through twenty twenty eight capital improvement plan exhibit a attached here too and that's what i that's what i said as moved it's what i  and just to you know clarify for the public we put into process i mean i think there was a time when they this city council would adopt c i p for a score of years and then not really updated  just use it as a guideline and we chose several years ago to make sure that it was updated annually so we go through this process of ten years although we're really frankly focused on the upcoming year i hope it's helpful in the governance of the city to have a document that has so much review and thought and updating so it really keeps us managing to the right and realistic numbers for capital improvements i feel more confident because it does if we do change it and it's an active documents we're  as we noted earlier number nine and move on to item ten consider an approved the errors and omissions report from the grand list and toddler block out there doing the job so it happens every town goes through this and it just needs to be pretty much signed off on there's more to this document then actually needs to be in here because i like to keep all the changes to the ground list in one document so because  city of rome to the taxation process changes so that the valuation is always partial is no longer ends up in the grand list they don't get a tax bill on it and those values are recouped through a pile of payment even though they have been demolished well i guess i knew that we had an agreement when they when the city of burlington bought property that it was valuation changed and it was a different formula and it went into the pilot  that's after death this money hasn't changed its value at all at this point right the value hadn't changed the taxation is changed but it hasn't and there's a difference i stand that but where is it motion the laws that are there brought to the side of the argument and that's what came out of the lawsuit was that this is what happened explicitly states in the agreement that they just have to own it yeah are treated ok so if these are occupied dwelling is there enough to be immediately demolished i cannot i cannot support them being activated because they're still residential properties whether they're rentals or other i mean i know this is contrary to what evergreen has been signed a let me just voice my extreme displeasure that this is crazy if these are houses being lived in that were purchased by another entity they still owe property taxes on them until they're uninhabitable well i think i can drive is greedy that i think airport buys it and everything else is going for a million bucks an acre in this community so that neighborhood well not in that neighborhood but well it depends what it's done for well that's true it depends on the zoning you're right by going from the assessed value of the land only because that's all we can you can tax any way to the two hundred eighty thousand dollars an acre we're only losing about twenty five percent on the municipal side ed fund is definitely taking  they were not allowed to demolish before and how they were taken over by ignorance home was destroyed basically and i believe that it would be good to find out if there is an action being moved forward by the but michael mancienne any of the others from burlington iowa on whether they are interested are properties when they're the value changes in the ground list i have to notify the owner that happens to change appraisal notices go out people grieve we finalize the grand list because cent of the tax bills between those two periods of time i neglected to make an active so they wouldn't get a tax bill and they wouldn't want to grant us so this was six and that problem let me ask a separate question for the future thirty nine homes that will be purchased and probably demolished  can you tell me what just for the city point of view very what total grail is to praise value do we need to add to replace without looking at the actual houses in the values would be a shot in dark for me i want to see the houses typically that have been taken down or anywhere from two hundred fifty or three hundred fifty thousand dollars in value times slow so we're looking at about i understand to be about a half a million less dollars going into the ed phone from airport properties because they're now doing state owned no i believe this is the third year here because we've had two years is a half million dollars about right in your mind how much less the states getting because of our agreement to the i phone i don't that's what i heard at one point well i think it's north of that so as smart people here is looking to grant this shortage this i just they should be aware that they're getting north of off a million dollars less from the airport because of our tax agreement well don't send them a letter but it's a complex agreement they're getting more than half a million some are announcer off last year and vice versa so that's just that's all the stuff that technically doesn't even need approval it's just i like to keep it neat on one document ok if it's not on the front sheet the impact of some of the stuff in the  i'm sorry you have another question mine is just it's just your opinion ok that you know we've been struggling with this how much information should we be able to get out you know to the taxpayers to make sure that they are filing their homestead pieces and what have you and so forth do you feel the council should be  getting more information out to the public to make sure that we don't wind up with the you know where we've had the reverse on the amount of what residential versus commercial you know we've had kind of the switch on on what the amount was that we were being taxed at the rate but do you feel that we should have peter in to talk with us and then do everything we can to let the public know that these are things that they should be applying for and that you know they're going to be paying with taxes and i understand you're not the tax collector but you know dealing with the problems that come up when people say hey how come i have this up until recently i sat three feet from the  hundred percent of the had fun taxes so that state i don't think it's ever been applied it's in there by the state wants the homesteads declared early so that they can get any adjustment on a tax bill in july which is the earliest ones that go out that's why there's a penalty for a late declaration getting people to understand that without filing their homes that you will not get a state payment  is a difficult one and everybody's had that challenge they couldn't hurt to try to emphasize that in some way i don't know how much actual dollar if you want to throw on it because it doesn't seem to be a good solution out there it's just a pot and not pile on but to add on to that i didn't hear in your question maybe you did say it but here taylor the chair of the cia is very focused on new residents so so welcome packages are somehow communicating to every time we know a change of ownership occurs that's when we might send out a specific packet of information about ordinances do you see value in that population of taxpayers being better prized of the declaration of homestead to do that and so did that make any sense yes yes no it did yes and no we have a standing issue with people claiming they don't get the tax bills now generally stuff like this especially in this day and age the mail is becoming less and less of an important part of people's lives i don't know if wasting the postage and paper on it would do it  sending it to the actual new owners would be a challenge because i have to stop my gram list on april first so from april first until middle into june sometimes end of august the group are working doesn't get updated i've got all these other things i have to happen when i get time to actually change to do the updates we're into august so the new owners that whole segment we wouldn't have on on record to be able to send out in any type of document they would come from my office the clerk because they do that the actual recording may have a database that would show the new owners in real time because they do stuff that's pretty pretty close to real time you maybe get a database out of them to send out stuff how effect it would be i don't know i mean the question is when when a person goes to do their taxes prior to april fifteenth six hundred eighty eight whichever day patriot's day falls on right you know they're presented with several signals that this is a required document if they get a printed form from the state if they take the time it says you must fill out this form and you must return if you do turbo it the interview process tells you if you do h r it says the interview process i mean that's the that's the stopping point is when a person goes do their taxes either the person helping them says list your homestead were the software says it or the booklet says it i don't know who they're not listening to that's a question my experience in the dca tell if you disagree with this if these issues have been focused around new homeowners and when they buy in august or tobar and move them change or they just they're not aware they don't know what the vermont homestead act is and so i understand from conversations with donna we used to send welcome packets or somebody used to say welcome packets and that we have a little more information about these important things that we might better reach those those people but i agree with you they should be responsible for this when they do their taxes but i've seen in the b c a many unaware citizens that are new to the city what does that matter when you blitz say you buy a home in september  of record is or it will first needs to file the homestead ok must must follow suit and you get people who are moving from vermont to vermont and which which house do you declared it's a big confusion oh oh we'll get multiple declarations every homestead declaration that happens is operating comes to me i get to preserve looking through every of every one of them which is where some of these reports come from and i have to see and let the state know this person is not the owner of record on as kevin just whispered to me closing documents when you buy the house exactly right they're part of the closing it's not as if it's like oh i've never heard of this right let's maybe you pay cash and it's a private sale or something but i mean that must be a scene minority wasn't there also a problem though because we had some folks that were not filing at because as a as a nonresidential you know they had to because we had to shift him which was the higher you know our flying for this first as the other it was a very confusing time and we had it for several years that we were higher on the nonresidential rate i mean the residential rate than the nonresidential right say that backwards or so in iraq i think that a lot of people were happening and said ok you play the game if you end up violate you're going to pay for it or if you under clear you're going to pay for it and that used to be a three percent an eight percent penalty depending on which side of the game i played we've changed since t just the street three percent right that's what that's for so it's taking some of the fun out of the game if you will a lot of people are home now for you know it adds a lot of work for me but  a lot of people who declare homes that's out of state where they have a better a better deal florida has a better deal the vermont has stayed also changed and they had the different filing date so when even with a declare your home state and it stays that way until you want to clear it yes that's exactly one year because it just did and then the next year nobody father home says because well you told us last year we would have to do it again i wouldn't have to and then there was all usually penalties  awful the state is adopting just like you have to adapt when something pops up there actually shores and i want to sound like i'm backing a state here but they're extremely sure handed down there and i would want to work for the state if i had to but they there may not be enough money in you know fort knox to make sure that everyone gets the information they need and acts upon it so it's around five point but we have to just say you know what it stayed the same for a while these are the dates sorry if you missed it but there are a lot of billboards to say there's water over here horses water here right every three feet down the right but you know so but what i am glad about is that since the last piece the meeting listening to martha talk about how she deals with you know particular residents who are having issues it seems like the attitude in the within the city you know structure is that if you tell us what's going on we will try to help you and that's what i wanted to hear most of all right you know apart from i didn't know i didn't know i didn't know on the part of the residents right when you do contact the city and they say well we have some answers for you but you going to have to work with us because that's the only way it's been it's going to happen you know that's what i like to hear you know so i was pleased and figured it yeah i think it does too and so that i was i was happy about that story may not be the answer they want but very meaningful move the next item is a general discussion regarding consideration and timing for a commercial reappraisal yes you know we asked you to think about this and come back to us  no not that good good ok here's a reappraisal the way things work now the state of vermont keeps track of the ratio between our sale prices and our assessed values that's calm call the c on this paper i gave you i showed you the commercial residential the condominiums and the city wide number they go by the city wide number if one category is extremely low or extremely high we did just that one was sixty five percent sixty five point nine eight percent and two thousand six hundred six that shows we did a reappraisal ok that was satisfying the city the state if you look at the numbers it was back to two thousand and two thousand and two was the last year where we skated through get the net point the next year we were down to seventy six percent as a city what year do we go to a hundred percent or a person with an eighty seven i don't even remember  in reality by looking at a single category i knew by doing the transfers transfer come across my desk this house over two hundred thousand dollars it's assessed for hundred thousand dollars as a fifty percent ratio that's where we were in two thousand and six so most houses most condos doubled in value we got and he wouldn't feel most commercial properties only went up seventy percent vs one hundred percent or the seal is average by each of those sale price differences or ratios drastically so we did a reprieve in two thousand and six things have worked out pretty well since even weathering the market that immediately started to drop we could have done our reappraisal at any more of apex than we did we had it dead center right on top it was just bad luck on our part because people accused us of doing it at the height of the market well they were right but it was on purpose so now that things have have gone down every category has gone down categories have come back up our sales for houses condos living units have gone up and have surpassed two thousand and six our commercials on the other hand have not commercials have typically and if you look at a is roughly ninety six percent commercials are around ninety four percent which seems good last year was a different story if you look at the difference between the residential and the commercial going back a couple of years there's a big disparity and dispersion this measures equity ok you can have a c l a of one hundred percent and have absolutely no equity in your ground list if half the properties are selling for twice what they're worth and half are selling for fifty percent of what they're that would be when we're comparing that to the residential obviously this is the equity that's what we're going to build and compare between the people living in their houses and the people not living in houses there's less equity in the commercial portions they're c l a is also lower which means they're worth more than their sest for so combining those two facts together it's been something that we need to keep an eye on and we have this last year things got a little better in the c l a side of things for the commercial but the cod is still going down i mean compared to other municipalities in the area when the cod citywide were pretty close when it breaks down so it's something we need to do there's a couple problems one reappraisal companies right now are few and far between and they are booked out years so getting a company to actually bid on the reappraisal and then actually getting them here to do it is going to be a challenge takes time it takes time our last one we were told it took us two years to get his company in here what's the special magic in doing these appraisals i mean these are they have special sauce i'm told you're going to have this thing which sparkles that they put in to disturb in this i mean this can't be it's it's the work involved the site visit everything site visit everything internal reviews external reviews measuring the building taking pictures getting it all to database and then analyzing the sales to make sure we get to where we are make sure it's all right having hearings where people come in to see what they're getting before they actually get it getting the notices having a long hours officers and it was difficulty i know that we were doing some of the hotels because there just aren't that many to make comparisons with and i remember the deal that we had with the sheridan and their suits coming in and you know it was a long drawn out process right right every property owner out there you know in that case had the chance to come in and say hey i don't agree with  and that's that that's a big process because you going to explain to him i'm not just pulling this out of thin air we're looking at the sales of properties and you know your house is on your street in your neighborhood and in your neighborhood there's eight other houses just like yours a soul and they also old for around this mountain money your house is probably worth that amount of money that's as difficult as it gets so there's no rocket science it's taking them understand that process and a lot of people will come into my office and this is what you were talking about earlier about telling people about there's a state payment out there where by their homes and we go through this religiously and explain to people when you come to my office you may not like the answer but you're go get an answer you can understand so we hold the people's hand they understand it they may not like it but at least they understand why is the way it is you have a sense that the c o d spreads when you look at different areas of the city like the shelbourne road is that falling more on the half of the assessed value versus wells on road which is twice the assessed value is there any geographic disbursement that's worth noting on the cod within this on a commercial i wouldn't an anomaly in the grand list such as a condo location where she's these condos are also on for a lot more than they're assessed for compared to the rest of us if i can do a neighborhood  could do all condos i could do all flats could all town houses it all depends on where the numbers are telling me that there's an anomaly not interest we're not interested in residences right now you're most concerned about the commercial no residents or are  e darn good a lot of towns would love to have our numbers the commercials on the other hand trying to find out which part of it we've only got around six hundred fifty parcels so determining what actual faction of the commercial is the problem i'd love to see that raw data in a spreadsheet is only six hundred fifty just look at the transactions and then going to idea of where this unders in the overs are and if there's some geographic the problem of those that comes to light is there's not a lot of sales and back to the town only has two or three sales to begin with can throw off their equalization study drastically not having a lot of sales is why some of these numbers can move like the commercials move like two points in the cod in one year with a three year average to move two points there's not a lot there could be one or two sales are really poor things up so i don't know if we can identify certain areas makes sense yes that's a good question i don't know if it's a if we have a good answer for it can i ask you a question just so i understand the math isn't my strength so we look at the commercial and it's eighteen point eight which one  it's the distance between what is actually on both sides of the bell right now the bell curves really narrow that means that it's good that the appraisals are dead on when we look at the commercial number and you take a look over the years there's always been the discrepancy you know between that and let's say residential would just pick on that one for the next one over and and it's then you know i'm trying to look at the ratio between the two between seven and they'd teen versus the prior year between six and and sixteen it seems like we had some years that they were in closer proximity but it's always been at least i'm looking at this it appears to always have been i don't want to say out of whack but you know  consistently i much broader than there's more volatility in a commercial property than there is a residential home some of that not all of it relates to available money available stock  demands for jobs everything that that right now the market is really high the reason being there's no inventory not a lot of people are selling their houses so the people who are buying them have to pay a long dollar to get a commercial properties are all different  that comes down to a monetary make a decision you know i want to buy this property if it's not to make me money somehow i'm not going to pay what they want for which is what it comes down to which begs the next question which is in two thousand and six my sense there were this would happen again because of our ceiling with commercial in the last few years being significantly lower than the c l a for residential that indicates that they're selling prices higher than their specifiers ok and it's a greeter gap then residential if i understand this that we are kind of concerned that there are commercial property owners in south burlington that are either grossly under paying their taxes or grossly over paying their taxes relative to what they should be paying if we had less dispersion right and ok my other question is i heard you say six hundred fifty commercial properties and we have six thousand residential properties almost eight thousand total properties does that change how expensive a reassessment is if it's six hundred fifty properties are these things much more it would it would definitely be less cost per parcel would go up and do you see value in trying to identify a geographic area within the city to even narrow it down even more to make this less expensive than a more manageable project i'll certainly look at it seeing if there's enough sales to even do that would be the issue i'd love to see the data if that's your state funds for this we get funds from the state every year for me it is a green list a commercial but even if we level that out perk to get a bunch more reasonable dispersion that's not necessarily going to increase the amount of taxes we collect or affect the residential units rate at all which is going to be the effect of the effect on the grand  that we have properties that are overpaying at this point in time you see him a adjustment in those typically not as many properties over pay and that commercial residential any property people are more than willing come see me when they think they're paying to me taxes ok but very rarely and i can't say never because i've actually had people come in and say they're understaffed how can we actually at least from what i'm hearing from you from this that we do have some that are paying more than what their value may big quote and others that aren't paying quote their fair share that happens in every but there is no qui are you concerned if we were to approach a commercial reassessment we're going to tap too many of our reassessment dollars and that will not position us well and the years to come is that i'm not too alarmed right now with these numbers are see our overall c l a in cod actually they would be even better if we did commercial the question comes down to how concerned are you as the decision makers about the iniquity and the possibility that those  and have certain residential neighborhoods they see las as you know this is an average is high enough that you might be interested in doing those neighborhoods i don't i don't pull like a ceiling on every neighborhood but i watch the sales  and i notice you know geez you know grandview over here song three hundred sixty thousand dollars or seven hundred forty thousand dollars ok now we have that ratio and yet over here you know these houses only for four hundred sixty five thousand dollars in yourself for four hundred seventy five thousand dollars  but the value was not what it indicated prior to the appraisal so they get adjusted down when when it's in this glaring evidence that something's wrong you know that's what that's what i'm that's what i do  it alone and that's the key if this were a neighborhood of condos i've done it alone if this was a neighborhood of houses i've done what i can do six hundred fifty private properties along know what it's going to cost we can throw an r f p out there and find out that she's this is going to cost us a whole lot more money than we thought to do just commercial properties we're not that bad a shape or seem pretty economical maybe we'll do it and get it out of the way at least put out an r f p i know that takes a little bit of time and time is money but it sounds like you think that this might be a good time to do this and then we'll have the information that says but it will cost and then we city manager to develop an r p for a commercial reapprais a i feel like they might want to weigh in or at least hear about why this could be of value at least to market the attractiveness of south burlington the greater equity so do you see merit in reaching out to them on this on this notion of dispersion so i'm asking is if we would all reach out to them to get their reaction or that for me what what what what what are we asking them does this look good to you are there i think the i think they care to that this dispersion piece and if they have opinion merits or if we should do this reassessing the commercial properties i'd love to hear their thoughts we can certainly reach out to them and let them know about this action tonight and what that would second reading possible update amendment in repeal of the following ordinances one prohibiting smoking in places of public access ordinance relating to parkway stablish in a local improvement district in levying special assessments according to benefits conferred upon the property and said district in the friendly the ordinance regulating the construction of sidewalk and storm drain talk to the city attorney ordinance prohibiting smoking in places of public access so the two thousand and four ordinance that mirrored the state statute and especially provides for extra enforcement mechanism that the state doesn't provide which is issuing a municipal tickets there hasn't been an foresman issue in the city as far as we're aware and certainly not within the last ten or fifteen years so i thought even though that hasn't been an issue to maintain it in case it does allows our police officers an extra mechanism and it also updated the language to include the state statutory language on this regulation which now includes  tobacco substitutes so that is the what's presented and i provided a copy of the amended document and then the second group and i kind of batch them together in the memo is these ordinance related to assessments these were one nine hundred sixty two nine hundred sixty three and under a statutory scheme that i don't believe exists any longer there is a new state statute that allows us to levy special legislation was something that i worked on who is a strong proponent of in the legislature thank you piers for a number of years we kept strengthening but this was legislation or a original ordinance an exception that mirrored the state law for designated employee smoking places and businesses and that was later repealed right steve will marijuana be consider smoking in places of public access and repeal the three organs as worn for tonight's meeting relating to special suspects and cause a short and concise one third description of the effects to be published in the other paper together with a notice of a second reading a public hearing to consider the same for final passage at seven fifteen c r p c i forgot now you're called something different to g m t and we're actually right there was a hearing tonight we're going before the legislature to ask just to change the name and yes next gen is holding meetings all across the regions like title seven did you get to go there and i did up was a class but i had operations committee meeting this morning and we toured the berlin facility which we're debating on whether or not we want to support continued use of and that has a conversation with the trans they're currently leasing it to us for dollar it's been funded with federal dollars so it can only be used for public transportation purposes but it's in a flood plain it was ruined in hurricane irene so we're not debating and there's a switch berlin yeah so we're just debating i think we're going to continue using it because it's financially attractive but it's infill and quite disrepair so we're looking at the way in the information he gave us but it at some point in time i would like to have a little bit better explanation from some of the communities that have access to service don't pay but don't seem to be paying you know that because we pay a pretty hefty price and i mean to yes we have great service that's going through but you know it just seems like if the new ski valley park district you know has payments that we have to pay and we have for this that it just seems fair that those communities that are receiving the services should be paying as well i would agree with me not that it would reduce our is necessarily good but because we're asking for more things like tele drive and other routes and items that time had come up but it just kind of grates on me but it subcommittee our board retreat or anyone retreat in september presented this and the board gave the nod had to continue to explore what the budget model would look if it was fairly assessed on all municipalities that receive service because i think if a community can keep getting very cheap to no cost they wouldn't necessarily will move on to item fourteen council discussion of this survey data regarding the noise compatibility program for residents living in proximity to the airport who's going to come tha then into this survey tool that was then approved by meghan and coralie and pushed it out in every possible conceivable direction she possibly  could i think there may have been something in the other paper certainly on our website and on all of our social media in an effort to make sure that people had an opportunity to respond as of today for a little over one hundred responses to the site is still open you have the results of the survey questions here as well as the comments  mean my thought is to keep it open to generate more comments i think we should submit this or share this with the and see and then update d with additional information i think the more input we have the better so that would be my thought don't just cut it off but you keep it open and get more and more people to com thought the questions were good and i'm glad that we reached out ma'am read through all the comments but and i don't you know another thought i have is i but you know my appreciation for their position to not really be a well to complain or they might be able to do a survey and i'm wondering if they would like to have a copy of this and would be you know interested in maybe making it more of a wineskin focus but i don't know i thought these questions were were pretty good yeah they're not really i thought that it doesn't seem like know that but i'm just saying there is a portion of burlington at different times that understands there really is an airport make some noise i'll give  think we can let them know that we're going to continue to gather data and will update it make it more current for the next meeting whenever we get some more respons except we are going to submit this to the n c p to morrow so i think i would make these results public and just make it clear that we continue to gather data so if someone reads this and says oh i'd like to add my two cents and they might go and fill it out for postage so we just have a data entry and say you know south burlington residence i think it should say south burlington on it as committee come in and talk a little bit of what collaborative work that they are trying to pull together and i was really reminded that i like the third or fourth last feature there are talked about the energy efficiency but we haven't heard anything back from him in a while and i think that would be it would be good to find oh you know are they able to move anything forward that looks like we might have some collaboration with them email from i think of her name but she was outlining the format in the purposes of all the different committees and how they work together  one one meeting i recall was going to focus on or one of the topics would be what are the sound mitigation activities that that are possible and would be recommended and it seems to me prior to that conclusion or report that it would be good for them to have keith and the energy committee come in with some ideas while you're at it here up a lot of the other things you could use and want to see if you can have funded included that are energy efficient but to make sure that they get in early enough time which is of my point earlier you know it's really hard to to have the whole thing sort of laid out they've been working out for six months sure and then have someone come in have you thought about the eleventh hour and so doesn't get res august twenty eighth of this year and what also goes along with this is the map the google map thing and all refer to in a minute so gene in his the council block access so they let us put dog fencing up on this parcel and we could let them just put fencing up on our roadways road so if they want to block access they could put some fencing up well interestingly that's what they're doing so tom and i went over there today and if you look on the map you'll see a red line that is on the side of the old parking lot for the old dog that red line is in is in fact jersey barriers that have the airport has brought there to close off the parking lot from the ability to park there so they're spaced with maybe a foot between them in that there's that gives appearance that they're going to continue that at least to the end of the parking lot so they are i think counsel also receiver helma at least received an e mail from nick longo this past week maybe that had some photographs of some people who had gotten out in the old dog park and in their cars and kind of spun around a little bit out there will certainly that jersey barrier that they're putting up would block that i received a call and it was kind of disturbing it no but i looked with that when the d park was closed and i was very disappointed to find out that there were other activities apparently going on and apparently according to this person that called me they've seen it several times later in the evening cars out there they feel it's drug deals they have no way of knowing if it is or not but there is some what but with the needles being found out there and other items that this particular call about and this person looked at this place several different times they'd read me and are concerned about that i i don't know where  what's going to happen and i know we've talked about lance what for streets and what have you and so and we've done some of those things and i'm not saying we're at that point right there but do we feel that this is sufficient for now i will say jean you know i'm not i'm not questioning what gene saying i will say this i since i got this letter i have been to the site more than a dozen  times tom and i were over there the south after noon and i have looked extremely closely around the grounds and i've never been in over a dozen times there i've never found a needle there now there are places i can take you to right this moment orchestra have and and we will find needles but i have i have yet to find a needle there as far as vagrants there are there are no vagrants living in that ravine i id i did however after getting this from gene asked trevor to step up surveillance of the area with our patrol officers and after about three weeks i asked trevor what he is finding and he said we're not finding case but i've got to tell you pat i've gone over there so many times at so many different times the day before work after work in the middle of the day and i have never yet found a needle there ok now  i'm not saying it's not happening but i just have not found any and we pay pretty close attention this stuff because this is this is hazardous that none of the barriers on the street or on their property i think it's probably on their property i and the cards are cool too i think because circle too i can't remember last year but i think career road extension we do partly because of you know the dog park was there but the asking for us to  barriers up would is surprisingly high in the thousands of dollars they could do it but we may really but but more importantly we may have an obligation under under statute be what used to be feral street one way where to a drive comes in at the end of hadley oh and all of this anything that we would do to actually shut down the road is steeped in legal proceedings so you could just  on their property i think they are i'm less willing to have them put it chain link fence across the road so if there are three strikes there to do that on their own that would be a problem we can't do that they can't get and at this point in time i'm not interested in just ceding over this property to the airport if we do that there's something we need to get in exchange in exchange i around the card circle area in a roadway under a not in the roadway but you know have an agreement have a lease or something with long term lease with the airport or maybe that's an exchange  for dog park near this community that is i know it's close to the runway but it's not of close as i want to do one of the items i think if we go back a recall is that when we had the lease for the for the rental when we put it that we had it for that dog park back there and it was propped up by a president that he felt that it was not part of what the f a a but approved for the land that had been purchased and that's one of the reasons we got thrown out because when it was checked with the f a a the f a a said a salute like no that is not an airport use so that i think the only way we could probably get around that is if we did some type of the swans and that might be a possibility but but i think that's why we got through the four things i mean we were going to area for the area down by the backside of the airport you know well i'm wondering can picard circle be a place for the movers the green cabs to wait oh i've seen green airport is to right now we have anymore closure i'm going to court your jersey barriers as long as their stay on airport property would be opposed to and and what you have observed over there yeah ok go the other piece is sort of what what kinds of conversations her ideas do does the council support in terms of conversations with the trio of when you ski burlington and south burlington leaders meeting i mean you mentioned and i did asked last time and i will continue to keep getting updates son into the status of moving the the lily lane homes and i like the yeah i mean it's just like the our park commission does not control the trucks i think they have their separate i happened to be two people two commissioners are on they are on the taxi commission bill piece how do we get to have more of the say when you know without going the full boat changing the governance hearing full well that we're going to have a meeting here next time director of the aviation has said in multiple forums that i had been untruthful but he has not substantiated that claim with any specific any specific fact whatsoever so if are any of our  south burlington city employees were going around in public forums saying that other councillors and other districts are being untruthful i would want them to be held somewhat accountable so i have expressed this to two airport commissioners i have rela this directly to jean asking him for specifics on where i've been untruthful i've heard nothing so if you have the mayor's here and felt like raising something i would agree is somewhat petty but i have pride in my integrity i feel has been impugned and i would like to know what feels how he feels that i have been untruthful because i have not have you met with he reached out and i sent him my schedule and he said he would get back to me and i haven't heard again and i'm not i'm not here to defend him because i'm on your some property and it was like you know for god's sakes just make a direct request if you want something right i mean if they make an application to the planning and zoning part of the city to say i said could be a would like to conserve your city concer doing these actions on the slavery rather than than having just a balloon that floats up over here but doesn't float up over there that was one you know it was one commissioner that brought that up and said have you as a council considered resigning to help a per issue basis so i think it was pretty good work with we we butt heads with the a on a lot of issues right there has to be an opportunity to cooperate on other issues yes they also and i think you're probably trying to seek those we are passing out really so as to build up frontiers is something where they have to be forthright what are your plans in the future for the for the properties that you purchased and and how can our city somehow work with you to understand the best way forward i'm all for everybody for every very whatever that might be and there might be a lot of nks to bout that but at least if we get it on the table we can start talking about so what i and i would agree so what is the consensus i mean i think i know but you know in terms of going as we as the n c p moves forward with gathering their information a couple times the both i think the mayor as well as genius said well it's really the f a a only in pat you've conveyed this in conversations the f a a really only wants to hear from the people who live there not the political the strongest voice to come from the people about the elected so how do we i mean what's our approach or what is our bottom line in terms of having what we feel are really important needs of this community articulated and influence what gets built into that plan and then is the basis for an application for money to do x y and z i mean they did with you know governance lite kind of thing that says ok on these issues that affect our presidents we want to have the final down to be able to say no this is this is what we think not an individual resident necessarily be the spokes person who's who's looking at you know a fifty thousand dollar  equity bump so what are they going to say so the chair will school is that being represented by this suit the superintendent's office within this n c p process think so and so they have a firm stake in that process because they own the property and the kids attend that school but to be a would prefer that we as the city part not system well it's if you look at late this afternoon i forwarded the response that pat and megan got from the consultant about what is the role of the technical advisory committee and they from what i gleaned from that letter was they view the technical advisory committee as our conduit as a city to comment and they look at the public hearings the open house in the public hearings to come as an opportunity for the residents to comment and i think that was the basis by which they they they more or less stated they didn't do a broad public notice about the technical advisory festival because it has a different role and so i forwarded that to you all so you can see that but i think that the that the city's perspective is representative through that represented through fifteen picked people roughly but one of the presentations is a this body does not make the decisions the airport manager makes the decides that's very clear that was made crystal clear to me things  know this is all input into a decision of the director of aviation will make about what what recommendations go bust you go forward to the f a a in the end secret he's the final filter he's the final i asked in that meeting if the airport commission would bless or approve it and i think the answer from judge munger was that they didn't the last time so it's just the airport director maybe the airport commission might want to go out you know and i think that's a that's a good case to bring up that you know i mean if we've got this advisory committee which is very different than what they've had in the past i think the role of that was designed to bring forth the recommendations from the committee  told was that this all isn't for informs the director of aviation and that actually said the airport staff and the airport staff make the decision as to what goes to the f a a so that the maybe there's a record that's crude but  if i were to to to say to the mayor that the city council feels very strongly that the would start with the commission  pretty stronger say this topic of interest to me to coach out there well i mean i i think our bottom line is we would like to have as a community employed as well as the power of saying yes this is what we feel would be the best recommendations for our citizens whatever aspect of the report or applying for money to do any activities like sound mitigation this is what our community feels would be in the best interests right so our recommendations maybe not exactly the same as an individual residence you know requests for i want insulation i want you know but when you say well did you know that if we did x and y it might make it easier better for everybody you know we ask for this some eileen blackwood's letter basically said no the airport is responsible to make these decisions this is i would just say it might be a nice starting point to empower the airport commission as it was intended in the one nine hundred eighty five those commissioners they're all good people jeff they're all great people and i think we could have more influence on them well but i think the bottom line is that we want to have the concerns of the know what all of our options are to have available i mean i know that there was a list in europe some but we have to know what the options are and what is the you know what are the ones that are the people there so they can understand what each of these what does the berm represent what does the insulation mean what does the windows mean what does the whatever made so that it's not just their own self interest piece but that they are one thing for a quarter you know scope for the city and i think getting knowledge is everything in this process so that means that do we have a responsibility to do out i mean i've had people call and ask when could this medication start it's a don't get excited you got to be patient the right thing but what i do i just want the people to understand what list of these of the ten things that they said there that could possibly happen and clear definitions for that and we share that with the public and we asked them for their input and then we pull it together so this is sort of the majority of south burlington residents feel they want you know a berm there or whatever carmen did you have a  see patients come home i want integrators know me and to come to both of those points i would also just push back a little bit on the airport statement that they want to hear from the people and not the elected officials and the defense of the people they're busy i mean they have  individual documents you know if you're going to receive insulation from your treatments for their home so it's like your face like the people that live in the facility are the ones that talking to specifically and i understand that but does it mean that we can't go r all of that is something that seems to as if it would be really helpful to a large group of people that maybe aren't complaining so much now but sometimes well the interesting you don't know how noisy it is until quiet available to you when you're informing the public because the questions can be really scary to know that some of the guns certain things for their home about the replace windows but maybe it's the insulation so you know it's not going a city i mean we certainly have to i need to know more information about the i have a geisha an easement but to your point carmen that's conceivably something that the city government says have if you have a community you say ok seven people said i don't care about the avocation amusement that's fine so i guess they can't sue or they can't get any more money or something but now it just seems like there might be some things that the community the political arm of this community should be able to advocate for and get important to any other thought this is hopefully we'll be meeting on a regular basis the three of us so things evolve maybe we're back and maybe some of the heat can come out of the conversation and we can get somewhere i'm i'm hopeful most of the time if i create heat i apologise i didn't mean don't know i didn't say that to make your power i think i get it now find out what the password i know  clicking on documents now see if does open up anything like you might give us a try one of them it is just going i mean it's quick and hang on a let's come back to werder for your gavel back i know i have to so i'd like to reconvene the south burlington city council for their december fourth meeting and we will continue with item sixteen on the agenda october financials and time however have taken away thanks helen so with a linear measure we're thirty three percent into the year you know or third of the way done which is hard to believe already but just that taking us through the month of october and as we stand right now our revenues just over twenty eight percent expenditures at thirty two percent not a huge story to tell you at this point lot of what the expense the larger expense items have been have been stuff either the c i p b a cool purchase computers transfers that we've made  you know like into certain funds at this point and some of the no payments i mean those are the bigger things that as you look down through the budget in expenses that are more than thirty three percent that kind of fall in those major categories and on the revenue side we're we're going to be receiving revenue in the local options tax during november so that will be on your next report is not received once a year you know it's four times a year and one of one of them is a partial payment in each fiscal image so to have three full payments and then one partial on each each of the years infant how is that looking taking taxes is actually getting back to the state yeah you know you know yeah i mean they collect some but they don't force third parties to collect any great have you had any gotten any busy but we're going to be persistent or will we even like a list of the different businesses you know to just kind of see that west so we're still doing some exploring on our end i know that andrew's continuing to would be you know helpful come have some of that and i put you know i would be and we're curious to correcting that you know jimmy lyons might be interested for williston to find out if they get everything closely guarded confidential number and i go well i guess i understand that but it's like should somebody should be watching their house and they're just because they should be able to correlate that to texas i mean to to you know to income taxes and just understand changes year to year and find out because you just want everybody to pay their fair share is all we want right now for the miss apologies to be able to participate in that when we make the assumption that the appropriately counting properties in south burlington right and not awarding that to another community i mean half of the population thinks that the sheraton's in burlington you sure now they know they should break they should be able to they interrupted so are you enterprise funds are in good shape not numb which to report there like kevin mentioned earlier a lot of projects going in storm water and will continue we're in the process of finalizing the budget i hope to have a draft for you at the next meeting and then our budget meeting i think it's scheduled for january ninth he thirty nine somewhere in there which would be a special actuary so if all those pieces come together ron will report to you on the eighteenth at the next meeting as well as our actuaries so that they'll be a pretty significant piece of of our next meeting is to reform you know that the two charges for various versions of the library i mean is that having any of impact on our budget for this year at all so no because other than the fit up cost which which does have an impact on it the furniture the bookshelves the equipment all of that all those appropriations came out of city center reserve fund because we really see those as transferable yeah we had we had largely anticipated that city center reserve funds would pay for the architecture and engineering work but the library board of trustees indicated that they saw that as  was the number one fifth one fifty ok anything empty i don't know well whatever are there any concerns about him having a first class they've been passed off by everyone else before it comes to item i had brought up we already discussed so if there are no other items we know well we didn't have justin here for an important piece although there has to get a whole new roof off because of the storm yeah wow live tarps that are on don't we just all volunteer to come over and help