good morning the subcommittee on the federal workforce postal service and the district of columbia hearing now will come to water i want to welcome ranking member shape as members of the subcommittee chairman at taos a gentleman from new york all those  witnesses and also those in attendance at today's hearing the purpose of today's hearing is to examine the merits and potential impact of nine sixty the district of columbia legislative autonomy act of two thousand and nine and h r ten forty five the district of columbia budget autonomy act of two thousand and nine collectively these measures introduced by representative eleanor holmes are intended to advance the concept of self governance in the district of columbia the chairman and ranking member and subcommittee members will each have five minutes to make opening statements and all members will have three days to submit statements for the record before i get started with my statement today i'd like to ask unanimous consent that the statement of robert branom the chairman of the fifth district citizens advisory council be entered into the record hearing no objections that is so ordered as mentioned earlier the subcommittee convenes today today's legislative hearing to examine h r nine sixty the district of columbia legislative autonomy act of two thousand and nine and h r ten forty five the district of columbia autonomy and budgetary autonomy act of two thousand and nine which are two bills in a series of legislative proposals introduced by congresswoman el holmes norton to promote greater autonomy and self governance for the residents and elected officials of the district of columbia established by article one section eight clause seventeen of the united states constitution the district of columbia came to be our nation's capital in order to protect the institutions of national government and to prevent the disproportionate influence of any particular state in establishing the seat of the federal government the constitution granted congress exclusive legislative control over the district of columbia however ratification of the district clause congress has employed various approaches to municipal governments in the nation nation's capital most notably in one thousand seventy three congress enacted the dish to columbia self government and governmental reorganization act also known as the whole new rule act the home rule act three aided the district current governing structure complete with a duly elected mayor and city council thereby setting the nation's capital on the road toward self governance while the home rule lacked the one nine hundred seventy three represented a significant step forward for the city's municipality the act also came with an array of checks and balances such as the requirement that congress review all locally pass legislation as well as the day sticks and will budget before final and acting can occur although the home rule act attempted to strike a balance between congress's constitutionally derived authority and the need to delegate aspects of this power to a local government the fact of the matter is that these certain provisions of the act have created a costly and sometimes unpredictable public policy making process and an accommodating fiscal budget cycle for the city it is for these reasons  norton has introduced h r nine sixty and h r ten forty five to do away with certain aspects of congress's review authority as outlined in the provisions of the home rule act specifically h r nine sixty the district of columbia legislative autonomy act of two thousand and nine would eliminate the thirty and sixty day congressional review periods for criminal and civil laws passed by the district government along the same lines h r ten forty five the district of columbia budgetary autonomy act of two thousand and nine would remove the statutory requirement that congress annually approve the district's fiscal year budget which is principally raised from local revenue sources waka lect of nine sixty and h r ten forty five will fundamentally reshape congress is involved in the local legislative and budgetary matters of the nation's capital nothing in either of the measures being discussed today can all will eliminate congress's exclusive constitutional authority over the district of columbia and other words congress will retain the power to repeal or amend laws local laws through the routine passage of legislation and its right to annually review the myriad of federal payments to the addition of columbia that said the subcommittee is interested in  the pros and cons of these two proposals and pro home rule measures which is the main purpose of today's hearing the district is home to nearly five hundred seventy five thousand taxpaying american citizens many of whom have served in our nation's armed force and i've gone to polls to elect their own city officials to carry out the business of local governments even in light of some of the city's ongoing policy challenges and its longstanding structural budget imbalance the district of columbia has made great strides over the past decade and its capacity to govern which is why i believe today's discussion on revisiting congress's approach to overseeing the legislative and budgetary matters of the nation's capital is certainly warranted again i'd like to thank my colleagues especially elena holmes norton for her tireless work in this policy area and for bringing the concerns of her district to the forefront of this committee and this congress is a five minute for opening statement thank you mr chairman thank you all for being here are united states constitution says that congress is quote to exercise exclusive legislation in all cases whatsoever over such district the other witnesses at the table who are most expert in the affairs of the district of columbia more so than i or any of us sometimes could possibly be but particularly this issue and i want to thank you for fording us this hearing which helps us to reach  district from its paternalistic oversight and that is a very kind way mr chairman to put it if i may say so this is an anachronism but i don't think any american would be proud of the fact that a jurisdiction that raises six billion dollars on its own can't spend a dime until the congress says yes you may go or would be proud of what we put our councils through in order for laws to become final in the district of columbia if you lived in the virgin islands and puerto rico or guam and i have good friends who are delegates from those territories you never hear from the congress of the united states attaching anything to your budget because they never see your budget and by the way they don't pay federal income taxes the way our residents do at a rate of second per capita in the united states mr chairman senator tom eagleton so you understand this is a type of radical  proposal in the original home will act the senate would indeed have given the district budget autonomy in the compromises that always go on in this place that was removed so that the senate the district has to come back it has created huge operational problems and delays the district of columbia and the notion that we would do it when the congress of the united states have the power to wipe out every law district passes anyway because we retain the home rule act is a delegated authority so we retain the authority to do whatever we want to the district really emphasizes why it is time to put the congress to help the  steps that make this logical step one was the mid year budget autonomy bill it will seem astonishing to most americans to know that in the middle of the year the district had to come here to ask the congress essentially if we could spend the money if you collected the first half of the year and so the district had to be on the first supplemental creating another delay for the district of them when i was in the minority that was given up and that that bill was was passed and when i was in the minority and this is why i believe this is inch and will be a bipartisan bill when i was in the minority and pointed out the  hardships on the district of having our budget go three or four months half or even our september thirtieth deadline they agreed and now for at least half a dozen perhaps ten years the district budget has gotten out on the first c r but look at that what is a c r c r our government agencies and therefore we are continue to be treated as a government agency there is a huge problem for the district that our budget year is attuned to the federal budget year whereas in your district and mr jeffords is district the budget year is over in by the summer you can prepare for school our folks have to prepare for school which is one of the great if not the overriding goal or a cheat issue in the district of columbia without its budget in hand it is created terrible problems in the past when the budget was was delayed the legislative autonomy is even more laughable this is did autonomy seems to me speaks for itself most people don't know what chairman gray and the council go through in order to get a bill to be final and i'm going to let him describe a process that is not even used in the congress anymore that is to say we do not indeed use resolutions of disapproval you've never had one brought from my colleagues on the other side and certainly not from us we don't issue a resolution of disapproval go and vote on it here and then go and vote on the senate but we require the district  act as if we did that the district had to come here and wait for thirty legislative days or sixty legislative days it is a criminal matter well we're not in or five legislative days most or many many days so the district lot can go many months without being final and yet we say to mayor fenty and chairman gray you run that city and you make sure you run it efficiently and if you don't you will hear from people up here saying you're not a very efficient city no jurisdiction the united states is faced with such handicaps particularly handicaps for which there is no reason today if the reason is control you retain the control you will hear finally the c f o the chief financial officer talk about the cost the real cost to the city which is not us today and having done the oversight from the congress of the united states as  was done for the district nine hundred seventy four take the historic step of giving the district the last two important elements of home rule for the district of columbia and i couldn't thank you enough for what you've done for us today i thank the general a b i would like to go out of the water just to allow the full channeling of the committee the gentleman from brooklyn new york mr townes five minutes for an opening statement we thank him for his a and thank my good friend congresswoman eleanor holmes norton for hard work on behalf of the district let me again thank the witnesses for the attendance here today when i let you know we really appreciate your being i support home rule and self governance in the district over the years the district has achieved great independence of course this has been done through the districts on advocacy the adoption of the home rule act and the end of the involvement by the control board in the district finances among other measures the district has deadly prove its ability to manage is all of this even passing a balance budget during an economic crisis that has greatly affected many state and local government i applaud the progress that has been made in the district and your efforts to implement the principle of home fenty to make certain that home who is a reality now i know that it has been a long battle a long struggle but i think we have to continue the fight and be able to continue to push on my son who serves in the state assembly in new york says to me he says you know dad sometimes people just catch on fast another's of the thing called individual differences he says sometimes it takes some people two and a half hours to watch sixty minutes that mean they can't watch it just take them a lot longer so we hope that  as we continue to talk about the importance of home rule that eventually the other members of congress will get it and understand how important it is to move this forward congresswoman norton keep pushing back thank  of legislation that would increase autonomy for the federal taxpaying residents of the district of columbia h r ninety six the district of columbia legislative autonomy two thousand and nine and h r four five the district of columbia budget autonomy act of two thousand and nine i appreciate the opportunity to move forward when these pieces of legislation as part of congresswoman eleanor holmes norton free and equal d c legislative initiative and i must say to mister i thank you for all that you do have constantly been on the battlefield on this issue and so many others and you have to invent yet to convince some of us and then to bring others of us along to do the right thing but you know that many on your side we just got to get a few more in the constitution the district clause was crafted to help protect federal interest without state cooperation and to prevent particular state influences on the legislature where the federal capital was located  as time as change residence of district of columbia deserve a government that operates for them as effectively any patiently as possible and these two pieces of legislation would help achieve th by allowing constituents to elect the mayor and city council congress is really taking advantage of the review process to overturn pass legislation in fact only wants his resolution of disapproval been signed by the president that was president bush in  hundred one who signed a resolution that was related to restricting the height of the buildings in the district this process imposes an unnecessary burden on the united states congress and i believe it is time we trust columbia government to pass laws for its own citizens h r ten forty five would allow the district to go congressional review and approve of its operating capital budgets financed from local revenues t district budget through the routine federal appropriation process which congress regularly falls short of passing before the beginning of the fiscal year in fact only want since one thousand nine hundred six has congress enacted this budget before the start of the district's physical allowing the district to implement its local budget without mandatory congressional review will prevent delay in service funding and more important service delivery is of the district of columbia pay taxes and the way those tax dollars are spent should be determined by their elected officials the people of the district of columbia deserve and demand the four rights that they are d five minutes for an opening statement thank you chairman lunch and thank you for holding this hearing and i want to thank congresswoman norton for her leadership on the district of columbia that's a pleasure  o welcome this panel especially my friends america chairman gray with whom i worked many years in the local regional issues here in the national capital region for the life of our republic we've relied on the federal assistance to deliver services and a cost effective manner that protects individual civil rights and general welfare except and washington d c our founders established a system of government that constrained the power of the federal government and protected local and state provinces except in washington d c for the last two centuries we witnessed the creative evolution of the roles of local state and federal governments except in washington d c where the city council's attempts to govern in accordance with its residents needs and desirous has been constrained and supported all too frequently by political game and gamesmanship and obstruction by this congress the district of columbia faces many challenges i'm fortunate the district residents capacity to hold local officials accountable and addressing these challenges is compromised because those local officials are constrained by congressional attempts  manipulate laws in the district and or congressional failed to approve budgets in a timely manner but the rest of the district are going to hold their elected officials accountable congress needs to get out of the way congresswoman norton has presented us with two bills restore a federal us balance of power to local government in the district of columbia the district legislative autonomy act and the district of columbia budget autonomy act are two notable pieces of legislation some may be concerned these bills would result result in things like tighter gun controls or protection with certain people certain lifestyle whether they do or not i don't think is the business of this congress i believe that congress needs to defend the underlying principle of local autonomy even if the district with which we individually or even collectively may disagree it's not our business it simply should not be the role of congress to meddle with local decision making that is a principle i have always held and it's a principle that will guide me in my future policy advice with respect to this local government i thank the chair and yell back the gentleman before we turn to the testimony of our witnesses i'd like to offer some brief introduction on the honorable adrian m fenty was elected to serve as mayor of the district of columbia in november two thousand and six as  mayor fenty has made high quality public education for all and efficient and accountable government his administration policy priorities a native of washington a native washingtonian attended overland college before earning a juris doctorate degree from howard university law school after graduating from law school near fenty went on to serve as a local commissioner and later as the ward four council member from two thousand and one to two thousand and seven the honorable vincent gray is the current chairman of the district of columbia city council also a native washingtonian and a progress to one of the just to columbia public school system jam and gray has developed a reputation as a champion of young people by helping them and their families gain access to critical social services prior to being elected to chair the city's legislative body jam and gray represent of the city the city's residents of ward seven on the city council chairman gray is also well known for his service as the first executive director of the c responsible for the city's finances including its approximately seven billion dollars in annual operating and capital funds that the gandhi was appointed to this position on june seventh two thousand and was reappointed by matt fenty in january two thousand and seven as the independent c f o dr gaddy manages more than one thousand staff members in tax and revenue administration and in the treasury comptroller and budget officers of the district of columbia is served as the first director of the congressional budget office and is the chair of the district of columbia control board this rivlin is an expert on urban issues as well as on fiscal monetary and social policy currently she directs the greater washington research project as a senior economic studies fellow for the brookings institution mr walter smith is the executive director of the d c appleseed center a nonprofit public interest organization which addresses issues facing the nation's capital prior to his position with d c appleseed mr smith was a partner for sixteen years with the city's largest law firm hogan and harts it is the committee's policy that all witnesses to appear before the committee and submit testimony shall be sworn and i ask you each to stand and raise your right hand swear that this testimony you'll give before the subcommittee is the truth the whole truth and nothing but the truth let the record show that all the witnesses have answered in the affirmative and the entire your entire written statements entered into the record i trust that you have been before this committee before but just to go over the ground rules those small boxes in front of you will indicate greene which means that you have time to submit your opening statement want to turn to yellow it means that  you should probably conclude your statement and then red light means you have exceeded your time limit so what that may offend be it is an honor to have you here before this committee i welcome you and your now recognize the five minutes for an opening state thank you very much chairman lynch ranking member safe it's distinguished of committee members including my own congresswoman norton sharon townsend others it is my pleasure to be here today to speak to you about  one zero four five the district of columbia budget autonomy act of two thousand and nine and eight or nine sixty the district of columbia legislative autonomy act of two thousand and nine both bills would represent an important step forward for the district of columbia and its residents to that end i would like to take a moment to recognize the outstanding work of the district representative in the house congresswoman eleanor holmes norton who for years has championed the bills before the subcommittee today and many others zein to grant the district the autonomy it deserves these bills simply provide the district the same flexibility and autonomy afforded other jurisdictions around the country to ensure the efficient and effective delivery of services a fundamental responsibility of good government in one nine hundred seventy three congress granted the district limited home rule powers and empower the citizens of the district to elect a mayor and a city council at the same time however congress retain the power to review and approve all district laws including the district annual budget this makes the district unique among jurisdictions the perform state level functions as a district goes as a district does and that congress approves not only federal funding for the district but also the spending of our local funds a practice that ultimately hinders good government the district government of today is not the district government of the one nine hundred ninety s which saw the creation of the congressionally mandated control board because of unsound financial practices thanks in part to the work of my predecessor mayor anthony williams we have come a long way since then and we are not going back this year the districts submitted to congress his fourteenth consecutive balanced budget and we continue to exercise sound financial management practices a fact validated by the a plus credit rating awarded to our bonds by the nation rating agencies i am confident dr gandhi will speak to the significance of that in a few minutes but i hope my point is clear the district fiscal house is in order and the time has come to lessen the burdens imposed by congressional approval of the district's budget current law subjects the district's budget to the federal appropriations assess which requires district agencies to plan their budgets almost a year in advance to allow for congressional approval the approval process often causes unnecessary delays in service delivery and prevents the district from responding quickly to changing public needs as a primary deliverer of services local governments can only be effective if they can respond to changing circumstances in a timely and responsive manner unfortunately congress fails to approve the district's budget on time virtually every year resulting in a near three month delay on average a period in which critical new investments cannot be made the district also faces challenges over the course of the fiscal year as any mid year adjustments caused by changes in revenue must be reviewed by congress many of the issues i raised regarding budget autonomy also apply to the issue of legislative autonomy article one section eight of the constitution allows the house and senate to examine every piece of legislation by the council depending on the nature of the legislation however mean we must wait thirty or sixty legislative days for passive congressional approval before legislation becomes law as i said in my testimony on this matter two years ago this makes me the only chief executive of a city or state in this country for whom the act of signing legislation does not make the legislation final it also means the council of the district of columbia passes hundreds of bills every year that must await congressional approval  the vast majority of which are of no interest to congress whatsoever the limited legislative autonomy granted by the bill proposed by congresswoman norton would maximize the use of taxpayer dollars reduce inefficiencies caused by a complicated legislative process required to comply with federal law and allow the district to realize a greater measure of self government i urge this congress to take swift action on these two pieces of important legislation thank you for the opportunity to testify today i'm happy to answer any questions you may have thank you counsel great jam and great you know i recognize the five minutes right thank you thank you very much  on two important piece of legislation h r ten forty five the district of columbia budget autonomy act of two thousand and ten that of ten o nine and h r nine sixty the district of columbia legislative out of autonomy i also want to thank my congresswoman eleanor holmes norton introducing both of these bills on behalf of the district of columbia these two bills along with the district of columbia house voting rights act would provide the first real advancement of home rule in the district which is since the congressional enactment of limon home home rule act over thirty years ago the district must develop its budget in a timeframe that complies with the complicated and lengthy federal appropriations process as has been stated the federal appropriations process forces the district to develop its budget months in advance of the timeframe needed by the city in fact the district has had to adopt the federal fiscal year of october one to september thirty one another  year may be more appropriate to the city the congressional appropriations schedule prevents the district from using more current revenue estimates and expenditure needs that would lead to a budget based on better and more complete data in the last several years congress has granted approval of the district's local budget by the beginning of the fiscal year without approving federal appropriations but that timely approval is not guaranteed for every year the approval of h r ten forty five would provide to the guarantee that guarantee by removing the approval of the district's local budget by the congress under the proposed legislation congress would still maintain its constitutionally established oversight authority half of our total budget is funded by local dollars generated within the district of columbia local budget is funded by a local district revenue not federal dollars the reason this reason alone justifies why the district should be allowed to approve our own budget i believe the district has earned the right to budget autonomy we have come from under the authority of the financial control board we have maintained a strong financial position including a fund balance of one billion dollars we have received clean audits for the last decade bond rating agencies have consistently increased our ratings and we have strong internal financial controls on the issue of legislative autonomy after thirty five years the process for acting laws in the district needs to be revised this process once again denies district residents the basic rights granted to you to other u s citizens the right to an act our own local laws what is even more interesting is the fact that four territories have allowed have been allowed to enact their own laws without congressional review the current process involves a review period of thirty legislative days for civil laws and sixty legislative days for criminal laws because the actual legislative days depend on when congress is in session and not c of many district laws is delayed well beyond the thirty or sixty days involved this prevents the city from acting laws in a timely manner that are important to addressing the continuous and often changing needs of the city an example of this was an act an enactment by the council of updated terminology found in the d c official code changing the word handicapped to disability the congressional review for this change was nine months in order to address the needs of government the council mu use a byzantine process of passing laws on an emergency temporary and permanent basis a bill passed on an emergency basis is inactive for only ninety calendar days because many pieces of legislation passed by the council do not complete the congressional review doing the emergency enactment period the council must also pass temporary laws that are in effect for two hundred twenty five days following the end of the emergency enactment period in addition the council must pass the permanent bill so that ultimately there is a final law that becomes part of the d c code in fact in most of the years between one thousand ninety seven and two thousand and eight emergency and temporary bills have amounted to over two thirds of the bills and acted by the council we've appended to to our testimony a graphic example of that which hopefully you will take a look at but just within the last council period that ended in two thousand and eight we had over six hundred laws that were passed in the district of columbia four hundred sixty five of those laws were emergency and temporary laws in order to be able to deal with the very difficult process that we face as a result of the current provisions under which we  now is the time to grant the district the right to self determination budget autonomy legislative autonomy and the right to voting representation i ask you chairman lynch and the other members of the subcommittee to grant the district government the self determination that district and i'm here to testify today and wholeheartedly endorse expanding the party of the district to manage its own financial affairs not only do i believe that the district's elected leadership has demonstrated its ability to adhere to principals office school responsibility i also believe that a greater budget autonomy would provide the citizens of the district as well as visitors with the highest quality of public services in a timely manner the chart that up years before you mr chairman is a history of the remarkable fiscal comeback achieved by the district over the past dozen years occurred in one thousand nine hundred six when the general fund balance hit a negative of five hundred eighteen million dollars through the efforts of the elected leaders and the control board we were able to but if we did lead to balance the district's fiscal operations and the current board and the control board was deactivated in two thousand and one between one hundred ninety six and two thousand and one that was a bun billion dollar increase in the f but the real test for the district was a challenge up sustaining the fiscal stability in the post control period as you can see at the end of two thousand and five the general fund balance that rose another billion dollars to one ratings which are which were junk bonds in mid ninety's but upgraded to current a plus category by all three dating agencies simultaneously indeed that done around by the district was faster than any major city that experienced civil to fiscal distress including for allowed cleveland detroit and new york in addition of income tax bonds issued for the first time in the march of this year better aaa the highest possible grading by standard and poor's and double a by moody's and fitch i should note that the initial offering up eight hundred million dollars of the income tax bonds was has been district and nearly every other state and local government in the nation have been profoundly affected by financial problems because of the depth and duration of this recession what will gaps that that created by lowered forecast i would not talk about the budget autonomy under the current law or district spending is authorized by the congress through the federal appropriation process irrespective of the sources of th argue that only the federal payments that are specifically and uniquely earmarked for the distinction should be appropriated by the congress if the district council able to set its own schedule to enact a budget the mayor and the list could always be under law upon driving you estimate based on more current data gotten to the budgets are based in large part on driving to ask them it's completed in february some seven months before the start of the new fiscal year in october and and total of twenty months before the end of the fiscal year the district does not get actual data on how accurate these every new estimates are and whether budget expenditures are fully covered until after the end of the fiscal year almost two years later than the budget estimates but provided the beginning in somebody is sticks leadership has the real and the necessary to sources to make recognize a five minute state thank you mr chairman and members of the committee thank you for holding this hearing i'm happy to be here to discuss greater autonomy for the district of columbia i strongly support both the bills before you but i will confine my remarks to the budget tanami i believe that greater autonomy for the district of columbia is a test of the seriousness of congress's commitment to democracy united states is just a viably proud of our democratic tradition we send our finest young men and women to faraway places to fight and die for democratic ideals our national leaders advocate democracy around the world but right here at home congress apparently doubts that the citizens of the district of columbia can be trusted to elect leaders who will make wise decisions about local policy even about how to spend our own locally collected tax revenue when congress passed the home rule act in one thousand nine hundred seventy three it retained ultimate control over d c legislation budgeting and borrowing at that time congressional skepticism was understandable the citizens of the district had been ruled like colonial subjects for a long time and had no experience with electoral politics or self government and the any experience showed when the city faced fiscal hundred ninety five but i believe and i believe that the congress working with the clinton administration and took the necessary and appropriate action when it created the d c financial resources management and assistance as already that was its real name better known as the control board that same legislation created an independent office of the chief financial officer a much needed contribution to strengthening the school oversight in the district as the c f o has said control board action supported by the city council combined with an improving economy turned the district's budget outlook from dismal  to positive in a very short time young democracies learn from their mistakes and the district of columbia government has amply demonstrated in recent years that it learned from the experience of the one nine and is able to manage its own resources responsibly it has balanced its budget every year since the control period ended and earned cleaned off its albeit with some expressions of concern from the audit from time to the auditors from time  time it has built up a large balance and significant cash reserves growing wall street respect for the district's financial management has been reflected in increasingly favorable ratings for its general obligation democratic government by trusting the citizens of the district of columbia through their elected officials to handle their own fiscal affairs without interference or delay from congress in fact in recent years congress has interfered far less than it used to in districts budgets and tried to accommodate the district needs by keeping district appropriations from getting caught in lengthy disputes over federal spending bills that drag on long after the budget year has be n this confidence is reassuring but it should be reflected in law if h r ten forty five the district of columbia budget autonomy act of one thousand two thousand and nine were enact district officials could design their own process for coming to budget decisions once a budget reflecting spending out of its own revenues was passed by the council and signed by the mayor it could not be altered by congress or delayed by the congressional appropriations process budget autonomy for the district is a win win for the district and the federal government as well as a demonstration of national confidence in the democratic process thank you mr chairman and members of the committee thank you mr smith welcome you now recognize the five minutes good morning thank you mr chairman it's an honor for me to appear before the distinguished panel it's also an honor for me to be a member of this distinguished panel morning i'm from beefy appleseed where a nonprofit organization that tries to address the issues facing citizens of the district and one of the issues that have always faced citizens of the district was striving toward getting the same kind of full democracy that other citizens of this country have these two bills are an important step in achieving that greater democracy  and the bill that i want to talk about is the legislative autonomy bill it seems to me that that bill is the right thing to do for three reasons first of all it's a fair and sensible thing to do and it's a practical thing to do second it's completely consistent with what the congress did in the home rule act and third it's completely consistent with a district called authority that the that the that the congress has and will retain if this bill is passed what makes it such a practical thing to do is that the congress has not used this layover authority once in almost twenty years it's only used it three times since the home passed congress has found other means and methods to review actions by the d c council and yet as chairman gray pointed out the council has to continue to bombard you and members of your staff with pieces of legislation the majority of them which are designed to address the fact that they have to have emergency bills and temporary bills to be a gap filler in fact the numbers are actually staggering since home rule forty forty forty four hundred pieces of legislation have been passed they are sent to eleven different places up on the hill which means almost forty responsibility of legislating upon local matters and i would just urge upon you if you ever want to read what the framers had in mind it's contained in the federalist number forty three which james because a municipal legislature for local purposes derived from their own suffrage will of course be allowed them mr madison was recognizing that the district clause was designed to protect federal interests not to take away from the citizens who lived in what would become the nation's capital the right to have their own self government and to decide local issues with their own municipal legislature so i applaud mrs norton and the supporters of this bill because this bill takes this step a practical fair step toward the current protocol for congressional review many of the financial benchmarks that dr and others have referred to derive directly from the district of columbia financial responsibility and management as pointed out fourteen consecutive budgets have been balanced and there's a substantial and admirable record of fiscal responsibility but i'm just i just want to be reassured here that at least in my reading of holmes norton legislation those checks and balances will remain in place those would continue to be here too   even for my signature unless the c f o has authorized it the dollars are there to go along with the bill so there are there are a lot of local safeguards that will still remain in addition to the federal state guard that mr smith just talked about mr jim jim lentz that is the understanding of the council as well and i think if you look at the the controls that exist those that we have a reported out of a committee until we have a fiscal impact statement from the c f l indicating that we have the financial wherewithal to be able to effectively employ legislation there was a time when the council permitted a bill get to get a second reading before the fiscal impact statement had to be available but we've eliminated that and those are the kind of controls that we continue to put in place because we heartily respect the past  and use that as an opportunity to continue to build on our controls to strongly support the independents work very closely with them and i think that was never more evident in the recent and within the last year when we had four instances where there were revenue estimates that were lower than the previous one and we all worked worked effectively together to create a balanced budget for the district of columbia probably in the neighborhood of six or seven hundred million had in vision and that as you make the case that the the city is working so well and so financially prudent and it's got good budget stopgaps in place and checks and balances i only wish the federal government would have some of that that same discipline before it goes off and puts more and more literally trillions of dollars on our kids future or just the credit card so i wish we had some of the financial controls and discipline that are obviously implemented at the city chairman let me ask you first you  said in your testimony that and i quote district as clearly demonstrated that we have earned the right to budget autonomy and quote and you obviously are making the case that everything's going so well  at the same time we also say that it quote all other state governments in our nation have this flexibility my concern is that the district of columbia is not a state it's not a state this it is dealt with differently and i just i guess i take issue with that characterization of other states and and perhaps that's just a small typo but for those of us that are concerned about that i  really am concerned about that if if things are going so well what sort of grade would you give the mayor well the legislation is not about the mayor's performance but obviously we work well with the mayor we've worked through over the last three years we work well to try to create a balanced budget and i think the evidence is in the audits the evidence is in the fund balance that you see portrayed elaboration that same sort of cooperation i think can happen between the city and the congress and one of the statistics that jumps out along the way is how how infrequently the congress actually does it jacked itself into some very volatile volatile issues but i do think it is that sort of check and balance within the constitutional framework that is important to us going going forward mayor if i can if i can go to you because again my time this is so short i want to talk for just a moment if i could the opportunity scholarship program do you support the reauthorization of the opportunities scholarship program in the district of columbia including entry for new students as contained in the three quickly taking that same kind of concept of autonomy you know one of the issues that is come up is about the same sex marriage law are you as you are here supporting greater autonomy for the district of columbia would you extend that principle to the local voters in the form of a referendum on same sex marriage law as has been done in thirty one states sure answers no longer answers i believe the people the district of columbia have elected a fabulous council the district of columbia one who  has all the tools necessary to make the type of decisions on what laws should and should not be passed challenges you want to drop my answer is no as well congressman chaffetz we were elected to represent people i think the council of the district of columbia has done that extremely well we tackle very difficult issues every day when you look at school governance that certainly was an issue right when i want to but i want to stick to the law i'm still trying to give you an example of how we have decided issues as a council that i think on the allegations of the school governance building a base my apology was in my people my time is so short i'm disappointed that the people are not given an opportunity to vote on this issue and if there's confidence in the council and others that this would pass then allow the vote but i think he's to be seen thirty one states again different the district of columbia it is passed thirty one times in a row in opposition of the same sex marriage last question the administration is pushing to take over at least there's a suggestion that you take over the safety components dealing with mass transit specific like the metro and whatnot what's your reaction to that is that to that be something of great autonomy to the city and i recognize that it goes into other states and what not but is the administration moving in the right direction or is it from what i understand the administration is looking at it on a national level i haven't  united states was not the case it's surplus with what is now having to use because of the recession but is it not the case that for many years the district surplus out ranked that of any state in the union or any city we were out among the states or i should say cities that have enjoyed substantial surpluses i was in chicago just two weeks ago meeting with the chief financial officers of other cities such as chicago los angeles new orleans denver etc all those places our surpluses didn't spend it up and has they are better than many cities during this recession is a source of pride to the city and a pride in the work that all of you have done jim gray i know this is a ballpark number but given how you have testified you have to jump through hoops just to get legislation to be into effect until we say it's ok or take no action how much of your time what what ballpark figure of the your time is spent on passing redundant laws are saying that laws don't go out of effect while you're waiting for the congress indicated in my testimony we have two thirds of the laws that we have passed since one thousand nine hundred seven and the council have been laws to deal with emergencies and temporaries all of which is an artifact of the system that we operate under there's no question that some of those emergencies would have to be adopted in any event because of the an exigent need however when you ferret out those that are associated with the process that we have to operate under here with the congress all the temporar are associated with this process so it's probably looking at two thirds of that legislation being in that category pulling out the legitimate emergencies that exist within a city that's probably fifty percent of our alleged here here we have half of the councils time is spent redundantly when it is a big complicated city when you need to get to the business of that does so very well but i think it makes the point about inefficiency my last question really goes to a point that seldom mentioned but it's really cardinal  point in all of this and i mentioned it in passing the june thirtieth the school year and i'd like the comments of the panel on this particularly in light perhaps i'll use an example mayor fenty has done something very important in the district of columbia with the cooperation of chairman gray who deserves a lot of credit for hurting the whole council to do what almost what very few states and cities have done to say fenty you're in charge of the schools of the district of columbia so they've given him everything except the ability to make sure schools have the same official start time of course he started them on if you have other examples for anyone in the panel mr smith is a form a corporation counsel we now call attorney general as we have learned then mr gandhi will be familiar with this but i'd like to know what difference it would make because this bill would mean for example you could decide of course you might decide whatever but you could decided that instead of september thirtieth when school is already started is the beginning of your your fiscal year that for example like most states june thirtieth could be the the deal at first could be the beginning of your fiscal year and i'd like you to describe what that would mean it's far as all of you are concerned or two quick things congressman this year  the budget was passed just because of the revenue forecast for the school system already we're looking at less revenue of about twenty million dollars are going into the new school year if you're closer the budget projections are closer to the time it's passed you're not going to have that type of deficit on a global perspective we've already had i think two or three meetings that all of our cabinet heads and it's only november  preparation for the budget they won't be passed already until next october one so we're almost meeting to prepare for the next year's budget before the current year budget is even passed i think for the council this i think the schools  the public school of public education is an excellent example because what we have now is a situation in which the planning for a particular school year spans two fiscal years we have part of that budget that excellent example if we could change fiscal year to july one the entire school year would be included in one fiscal year if i do echo that comment i would agree about the schools and further the fundamental problem that we face here is that  started without knowing exactly what the budget is going to be the only thing i would add mrs norton is that having tried to run a district agency when i was a corporation counsel's office not knowing what you can do and how much you can spend and when i put significant limitations on on efficiency within the district thank you time is expired you know myself just thirty seconds my own experience with budgeting is your revenue projections drive your budget and what what you're being forced to do is to come up with a budget prior to getting your revenue projections and you've got a considerable amount of time here a lag time where over the course of time those projections that you anacostia and the potomac turkey buzzard point was chosen to be a no man's land from the political influences from the outside or with from within for the federal much like we do with our military reservations too but when i am constantly reminded as a former local government official that the constitution does give us the ability to authorize jurisdiction but not responsibility constitution still  right in our lap this is one of those things that congress can say it's not my jurisdiction and the big difference is the same constitution that states that jurisdiction and the states the states are the ones who give their local control not the not the constitution the constitution does not take away that local control from other cities it did in this one and this city and so there is an issue here of the appropriateness of authoriz jurisdiction but thinking we can walk away from the ultimate responsibility of young ladies being attacked and roads not being completed in the congestion and everything else that's our responsibility i just like to ask down the line mr gandhi to appear to have done great things working with the local government when it comes to the budget process and i want to give credit on that after all of that trashing i want to say you guys are come a long way  still don't understand why you put traffic lights and traffic circles that violates every engineer traffic engineering thing i learned but that's a different issue why would we walk away from a successful program as it we so sure that don't worry we will never go back to where we were your success is something i think we should build on and not abandon asar i would give a great credit to the mayor and the chairman for the sticks citizens so i think you want to keep that in proper perspective and mayor i understand the the culture of politics in washington you inherited what i feel is on do influence of public employees being a basically government existing for the employees not for serving the public and everything else and i appreciate you've made some big changes there but the concept as a californian  not allowing voters to vote specifically on very controversial issues is something that as a californian we don't except we we specifically allow overriding of legislative intent how do i go back and say to my constituents that as the state legislature of the city let's say it that way i deny them the constitutional rights that we have in california and that's a direct publicized on these very controversial issues know california is very unique when it comes to the referendum process i think what you can say is that the people the district of columbia you know just like the other fifty independent jurisdictions in this country have a different set of laws and our laws have been made for some time and they work a certain way if you look into our referendum and an initiative process i think there's ample opportunity for citizens to actually take things to the  ballot there's also just so much opportunity for the council the district of columbia to pass laws i think it works it's a very healthy balance in my opinion that doesn't mean that what happens in california or any other jurisdiction isn't a healthy as well it's up to the particular state let me just say one othe district is defending a republican form of government as opposed to a democratic initiative process and that constitutionality was a big issue in california about the fact that the constitution does this and the republican form of government as opposed to the from virginia for five minutes thank you i thank the chairman and i thank my colleague from ohio for yielding by the way i appreciate it my friend from california said but it's a very arguable point how well recall referendum initiatives have worked in california one wants to read a cogent critique of that david broder the washington post wrote a book two years ago that really lays out how special interest on says essentially co opted what was once seen as a reform at the turn of the twentieth century so there is another side to that mr smith you're an attorney you're familiar with the provision in the united states constitution granting seven how many people lived in the district of columbia very few in one thousand nine hundred when the president of the united states john adams was the first occupant to move into the white house how many people lived in the district still very few when the writers of the us constitution wrote this provision do you believe that they is there any evidence that they envisioned that the district of columbia would eventually evolve into a vibrant metropolis with hundreds of thousands of residents they were oppression group but i doubt if they saw all of that mr congressman anybody else on the panel want to take a stab given that fact is there any other city you can think of chairman gray where congress exercises interprets this and exercises the kind of oversight and control we do in the district of columbia for example is there any other city in the united states where we condition voting representation to the competence of the local government i'm not aware of any congress and city you can think of or county for that matter where we condition voting representation here in the united states congress on the quality and performance of the school system not to my knowledge and the city or county in the united states you can think of that  again we condition voting members nation here in the united states congress based on how high or low the crime rate might be not to my knowledge dysfunctionality or functionality of various minnis of all agencies no w ability to balance a budget no really now i'd be interested in your thoughts and your what then would be the logic of this congress using this clause in the constitution which clearly was intended for a federal on klov that was ten met periodically during the year and then pretty much shut down it was never envisioned that d c would become the city with hundreds of  citizens and be denied the franchise not as i read the constitution or the history of the writing of the constitution but what is your view about the exercise of this provision and our oversight responsibilities and our condition ty of voting representation in the congress based on i think it's i think it's clear to us that we have six hundred thousand people who live in the district of columbia who are disenfranchised we worked hard to try to to get a vote for our representative and this congress mrs norton this issue around budget autonomy and legislate about sodomy i think eko the point we pay federal taxes just like everyone else we pay three and a half three point six billion dollars a year our sons and daughters in our family members go off to fight wars like everyone else we do the same things that other citizens of the united states do yet we don't enjoy the same rights and that is the right of self determination and frankly being able to make decisions about our budget being able to make decisions about legislation especially to move this city forward in a timely fashion are part of full citizenship and this nation and some some frankly we had and if we hadn't crafted an emergency and temporary legislative process we would have had experiences in the district of columbia that would have slowed down the ability to make decisions which frankly probably would have been criticized by this congress and others because of our inability to move get us the process that we had been required to operate under that would have delayed those decisions that needed to be made decisions that we know what they needed to be and then ability if i can interject created or generated by again just to sum up congressman you know i think there are people who would take your view that the no taxation without representation clause of the constitution is is the one that needs to be paid more attention to and used to give and give us our full voting rights and representation those are issues for probably a broader and deeper debate and a different day today in focusing on the clause that gives congress the jurisdiction of the district of columbia it seems that the law that isn't crafted by congress on the norton both gives the local officials the ability to spend our dollars more wisely holmes norton for her commitment to equality in the district of columbia you know in some ways it seems like this discussion it's almost surreal that we could have a city in america still struggling for self determination well as this ruling stated in her testimony we want to export democracy all responsibility we're not suggesting at abdicating that responsibility what we're suggesting here i think is that in many cases congress delegate the authority that's given to us t constitution and the question here that we're grappling with it and what with which miss eleanor holmes norton has has grappled most intently is that the way in which we delegate that responsibility has a whole lot to do with how efficiently that authority is implemented and we've done it in a way i think so far it was improved upon back in seventy three with the home rule but i think there are still some and conferences on the city government in trying to do the job that we hope you would do and is most clearly illustrated i think in the budget process where  ask you to comply with a budget requirement in a way that's virtually impossible so i certainly understand the budgetary autonomy piece of this  and how that could be worked out i can envision a solution there the one reservation i have is over issues that are inherently driven by congress is present  would not have been a target so there's a heightened level of security that's necessary because congress is present here and i think that we need to make sure that  property in the district is controlled by the federal government as part of our ability to do our jobs that our federal again that forty percent of the property that's covered by the federal government we need to have that same type of immediate impact on congress decisions outside of those very real and different immediate needs a mayor how do you how do you think we can work this out in terms of giving you affleck's ability that you need but keeping close for congress our ability to impact those things that are change anything about the relationship between the federal government and the local government express a when the it doesn't change the district clause which gives congress the power to come back at any point and make a statement about about a particular particular budget that we pass is really just about the operations efficiency of government i would put on the record that one day we will have that we will have the bigger discussion about whether the district of columbia gets full sovereignty and what you do with the individual with the more federal parts of the government but i don't think this legislation gets anywhere close to that since it merely just talks about  come upon the city that we all call home there's unbelievable cooperation between our first responders and the homeland security agencies and and federal law enforcement that you all have the privilege of overseeing their budget and no matter what our structure is certainly it would passage of this law they would have there has to be good management in this city is well prepared i think the federal government is well to continue that thank you mr chairman i want to comment on that well just just to echo what has been a theme throughout this hearing and that is there's nothing about this legislation that changes article one section eight and that continues to vest and this congress the authority to intervene where it may consider it appropriate to intervene it simply gives us the ability to more flexib and rapidly manage our affairs in the district of columbia especially around the passage of legislation especially around the issue of budget in my testimony i cited an example and i chose it in particular that it took nine months for the district of columbia to be able to change the term handicap to disability in our laws because of the requirement for congressional review i can't imagine that anybody in the congress would first of all object to such a change b far more dignified or even more importantly why would the congress want to be involved in that kind of change at the local level in the district of columbia and i go back also mr chairman to the reality that in thirty five years we've had these disapproval resolutions used three times the last time nineteen years ago which i think is a promise facia case for the ability of this city one to manage itself especially through difficult times and secondly the collaborative relationship that we've crafted with this congress i thank you to not recognize the gentleman from utah the five of us thank you and i again i appreciate everybody and their their dialogue i think this is a healthy part of the process i hate to think that you'd like to come here less often i do believe that the district of columbia holds a special place in the hearts and minds of all the american people there is only one capital of the united states of america and our constitution recognizes that and i think the gentleman from ohio good friend brings up an important point that if there is a discussion or an effort to change the constitution perhaps that is a separate discussion i happen to disagree with i think that it's divinely inspired and i think it says literally what it means but as he brought up at the end of his comments an effort to perhaps change the constitution modal maybe we ought to have that discussion it's certainly his right and progressives to bring that up i would i would oppose that just at first blush but intel it's changed i i have a hard time with the direction that these two pieces of legislation go and i have the greatest respect for what you do and how you do it and and and what the representative brings to the table and her perspective nothing but the almost respect but at the same time those of us the believe wholeheartedly in the constitution literally as it says i don't think is in direct opposition or shouldn't be met with  that you sometimes get into standing tall in the constitution i would also take exception with the characterization that the budget process is some impossible  given that chart that you're so willingly able to put up there in fact as i look back over the history and i'm still studying and starting it and continue to understand it it was actually an enactment of congress that created the independent as c f o positions that help change the direction and consequently created a positive result at the same time there have been a host of challenges there have been a number of things where maybe the the word is something that just in knocked us and we just you know we don't need to deal with that but i do believe that there is a role and responsibility for congress to help make that determination because there have been very contentious subjects such as needle exchange and and the second amendment issues and the hyde amendment and and budget scandals and all sorts of things that have happened you could argue that those would happen in other cities too but this is the unique  provision set up our founders in our constitution and i don't know if you would like to address that that's not a direct question but it's just an approach and mayor will give you the first stab at this but that's kind of where we're coming from at least where i'm coming from and i want to applaud you for the success you had but i will hold your feet to the fire for the things that are going well and that system of checks and balances and accountability and  up here to the hill is a very healthy process and yes it's different than every other city in the united states of america that's ok that's good that's the way our framers set it up well i think in any legislative debate there there comes a point where you agree to disagree i actually don't think we're at that point with this i think that you know if you are a member of congress and you have a particular personal  position that is different than what has been voted out by the council the district of columbia after the passage of these two bills it seems like you still have a vehicle to make your your personal opinion known and to introduce some type of amendment and i think what this bill speaks to is more the running of the government which i think the case has been put there just by the sheer number bills that come through here that  don't raise any concerns for you having those go through an additional six to nine months is it does cost the district of columbia time energy and resources could we manage our affairs otherwise sure we're not going to say we can't but can we manage them better if the law were passed i think we put a good case before you that we could and mr chairman my time has expired i appreciate those comments i chance to clarify because i don't think he wants to leave you're leaving the impression of a statement he made and i think you misspoke and you don't want to read about it later you made a reference to no taxation without representation being in the constitution you want to clarify that you did not mean that that clause in the constitution well as you are congressman our country was founded upon the principle is that the citizens of the of the country would not be taxed because it's on a federal reservation just happens to be for a virginia forget that there are there are the cities that are actually accomplished in federal jurisdiction that we sort of drive by every day and don't think about the fact that let me tell you this is near and dear specially in a city like this do you sure the program allows new students into the program and at the present the future as we have in the past yeah our you could classify that as more kids into the program because they're new kids or you could just classify the same number of slots we have supported the same number of slots so another way you support maintaining this into the foreseeable future where if you don't allow new kids in you number the same number of slots which would allow the new kid and to a certain to a certain degree but not any growth in the program and just the fun the quick expects the nation is the chancellor believes that within a short period time but  probably more in the five to secure ange we will have our school system at a level that we will it will be a much more solid option for all the kids in the city and there that's very delicate for me i own a place in d and sadly my wife and was emphatic that we leave the district because of the education and the lack of opportunities here the other issue that's going to understand in this city is that now that i don't want to play here but i've got a friend like bob filner where the district now has created a tax penalty for people that are required by federal law not to be residents of d c but live here and work here and the district is taxing them basically because they are not residents and members of congress we legally cannot be a resident voting resident in d c but bob's tax is more than his partner because he's a congressman and not allowed to do that under federal law is anybody even discuss that catch twenty two i know it's small but this is the kind of situation that exists in a federal city thanks to the nation's capital that doesn't exist in other cities if i've been briefed on that i don't recall you at the dart they got to let me say in reference to the schools that i yield as we both support is the type of school reform the chancellor rhee has been pushing over the past bill i think they have spoke quite valid that just like to give them a choice rather than having to pack up and leave like a lot of people have done sadly and a lot of people don't have the financial ability to pack up and leave like i did and give my children those options those that are in d c that don't have that financial ability should be able to have the same opportunities that my children had even though their parents don't make the money what a congressman makes and i appreciate thank you i thank the is that one is inexcusable given any set of laws that that some management failure not knowing where your dollars are being spent and wasted and i give the chance their tremendous amount of credit in our first months for being able to find likely to address that i think that is a management issue and if you look at some of the additional controls that the district has put in place over the last decade we have an inspector general now whom complaints like this about the operation of services we have an auditor who works with the d c council who looks at complaints around the delivery of services when you look at the the degree to which we've entered new controls those kind of management failures failings are more likely to be ferreted out now than perhaps they would have been fifteen or twenty years ago or certainly thirty five years ago when limited whole home rule was accorded to the district of columbia thank you  well i understand we're going to have votes on the floor momentarily and i think this panel has suffered enough i appreciate the generosity of your time and also the quality of your testimony i think you've helped us enormously with this issue i trust this will be an ongoing dialogue between this subcommittee and all of you on behalf of the district i want to thank you for your willingness to come before the subcommittee and help us with our work  without objection the subcommittee now stan