miles i have i have some discussion and it's it's difficult because my my observation and when i looked at all the data that brian guy are provided to us was my observation was why is the middle school be so much less than a high school and when we get into the discussions about the budget today in the increases in taxes i felt that to be fiscally responsible i wanted to bring it up to the board to discuss the possibility of maybe charging more for the middle school  supplant the middle school sports and compare that with the high schools for i also included and got some information from mr guy or about gate receipts and included that which actually brought the participant of some sports at the high school down even lower to wide he included in his dad what i found was that six of the a middle schools for their cause for participation foul within the same range of costs as fourteen of the twenty two high school sports that exist and i thought to myself well why could be a justification for middle school students to pay less than high school students for a particular sport and i thought besides maybe cost do they have the same number of competitions and when i looked at that data i found that the high school sports on average don't have any more competitions than the middle school sports in fact there were three middle school sports which were girls basketball boys basketball and girls falling bar that have more competition than the high school sports and then i thought well maybe middle school students should pay less of the use  facilities but i at least my opinion was that the middle school sports some of them have equal facilities i would say their basketball facilities they have similar jams  volleyball and cross country as outside so those were all the similar facilities and some of the middle school sports actually use the high school facilities for instance middle school football is scheduled to have three games on the high school field for both the seventh and eighth grade teams and then middle school swimming and diving and track both use the high school facilities for their meets so i looked at the cost per participant and analyzed that because were asking middle school students to only pay fifty percent of what the high school students are paying high school students would pay one hundred dollars for it and middle school would be paying fifty dollars per spore and when i did that side by side comparison it did show that overall middle school sports do cost last but then on average they only cost twenty eight percent less than the high school the high school sports so my thought is that whenever anything is brought to us about raising revenue or expenditures i feel a duty to look and see whether we're acting as fiscally responsible as we can when i mr geier had provided some data to us that said that if we charge one hundred dollars purse for at the high school level then about sixteen percent of the district's fees for that sport would be covered by the payment of that fee and my thought was that if we raise the middle school fee to be seventy five dollars then it brings that percentage of the costs that would destroy cost that would be covered by the fee to sixteen percent also so i think that's more of in the wall equal  burden on each you know participant i then notice that in rex for its most rec sports you're paying more than seventy five dollars or seventy five article that was provided to us late last year or the beginning of this year and they surveyed all the schools in pennsylvania and asked them whether they had to play  feel like if we did charge seventy five dollars that it wouldn't be extraordinarily out of the range that their districts are  are charging so for those reasons i just wanted to throw out the possibility of seeing what the rest of the board about raising a middle school participation fee to seventy five i think they i think using the gate receipts is relevant because it breaks it down to what are you looking about as the cost the cost to the district or per you know that particular sport to students and i think when we're talking about raising taxes on the proposed amount that we are that we should look at these things because all of hours per cent if he doesn't use gate receipts would mean that fourteen point two percent and the costs of providing this sports at the high school would be covered by the fee rather and sixteen percent so it's only a matter of two person yes so think the only way we make our budget any better is to always look at your expenses and try and keep those low and your rabbenu and try not to  people but make it a fair representation of what is occurring and what your costs are for a district to provide that service that is an extra curricular service i mean i will be a person who will have to pay this fee you know four times so it's not like i'm trying to you know put it on someone else's back but when i look at  the fairness of it i just don't know just from a cost perspective why i'm middle school should should be so much less and it's just something that i'm throwing up out there when we're talking about setting the fee in the darkest thoughts on this first of all i would want to do nothing to discourage younger efforts to be involved and that little bit of money could make a difference secondly it was a very sad day when public age you might even look at it as an investment you know johnny may not be the greatest runner and you may not want to say hey i'm not going to go ahead and put him in track because he's really not very athletic were the fee was less my put him in  so i mean it took most of the people in peter's found chip it's probably not an issue and my kids have always been a rec sports as well and i know this with this rick swartz cox but i'm just looking and i know there are people in this community they cannot order the referees and i don't think the  i don't want to speak for him i mean he had said that he did not feel like it would cause every doctrine and participation but that would be of the middle school level i would also argue that the person from one of those who doesn't have the postseason applications that the high school does and i know for a fact this year in the sport that i worked with we had students go to the state level that's an additional four weeks that the middle school doesn't have an opportunity to do so for those very reasons i'm against it but but for those very reasons that makes a big difference i think to parents too if we're talking about if my kid doesn't have the opportunity to do a post season you know activity to be at the state level you know the increased fee doesn't make sense if my kid is not good enough because it makes sense to spend the money so i do believe that there should be a separation for the very reason but unless there's any other concerns or overwhelming sense that we should take when you look at those class sizes do you have any idea because those are averages so we know that there's probably a few classroom that have to do three or four and they have two to three four more just based on the make up of the students with that still be accurate at the elementary level and if so should we also be concerned about what is the maximum that we have in any particular grade because that's persuasive to me because i been in the elementary level where just because of the make up you know you might have any teen in then you might have a twenty one thing that i wanted to know with respect to this particular period you know we are already touched upon the fact our cost per student being lowest in washington county but one thing i think we have to understand too is because of our aid ratio the government is expecting our taxpayers to come up with more of the money to fund our education and when i worked at the government's number on that first line item basic educational subsidy what we get is less per student than any other washington county district and it's the biggest chunk of money that we get so it's last per student and just to give you an idea the next one up from us is our own asked a thousand dollars more per student then we get so not only i think are we doing a good job by spending but whenever we do have to spend more of that money is expected to come from our tax base which is  just now when they say revenue neutral is bad do they look at just you said the county and whatever effect that has on the school district don't we have to also we do  one thing that i wanted to mention about the pension costs is if you haven't been following following the legislature there is a big push in a lot of pressure to try and reform some way  the pension cost and especially as the obligations are on the state to also you know reform because they don't have enough money to pay for their retirement either and last week there was a four person panel that discussed pension reform two state representatives and two state senators and it was very interesting because at the end of the seminar they asked why do you think the probability of getting some type of reform in for this budget two of them sat about ten percent chance and the other two said about seventy percent chance and what you found was there are pretty much like four separate plans and nobody's backing you know anyone in full and i talked with dr french actor and we both thought that the only  i'll say good in quotes pressure that's on the government is they've heard from bond rating agencies that if they can not deal with this pension obligation that they're talking about lowering the state bond rating so that is why they did yes so that is you know you would hope that it would get down soon but based on some state mandates that you have to provide and then why don't you provide is the flexibility that you have or there's not as much flexibility restricted allocated the monies to in the final balance to pay for the retirement costs do you then i transfer monies from somewhere so that that now i think it was four point eight million that was set you vote on this budget are you in actuality voting to say to take up time balance and use it or do you just do that over a period of time and see if you need it ok ok talk about funding being at risk and the state budget doesn't happen also until june thirty first what is this sound thing occurred that made all of our n with perspective the bond rating is i had read that there's going to be a different reporting on our balance sheet or something where we're going to have to report their retirement obligations that we have and it talked about the a factor of the interest rates that schools might be able to get do you think or do you know if that would have been in fact on our interest rates and would it be better to do that now and get the bond rating i mean get the interest rate currently now or do you think that that will really take just say that you were going to bring out for a vote on monday night could you explain a little bit more because we just got this right when i said like five minutes before the meeting so you could go through the high points of the on mary graduate out of the house but the biggest thing is for us to remember to keep the schools as good as they were when my children were here and i think you're trying to do that so i think the looking forward to our in the seven million dollars at a very cheap rate is just  smart smart thing to do so just it really gives me a good feeling about what's going on in community to see you guys working so well together really putting together a really good budget just remember the big thing is it's for the kids