as well as our committee secretary pauline martins for our executive staff we have mike molino from the mayor's office rocks and from the department of parks and recreation and our deputy corporation counsel is je before we begin anyone who would like to testify please sign up at the lobby and when you testify you'll have three minutes to testify on the items on today's agenda only i'm going to go ahead and check in with our district offices facing day to day with those changes said would be good for molly especially in part it would also provide funding for a person that would take care of cordon needing services such as rubbish removal and maintenance working with m p d and safety issues etc beautification projects such as working with our county to obtain a parcel that will be soon be up for bid by more you electric the bus stop sits directly in front of this parcel as well as the cross walk to the parking lot that parser could serve as as safe waiting area for residen and tourists who uses the bus system to get around a farmer's market could be created to a large residents and visitors to enjoy as a member of the p t a board i know the importance  having a paid person to be a very low ball to answer the concerns of the community currently the p t a is having to get creative to keep our current pro programs running manages the town center for the benefit of the entire community currently our membership has grown to include a business says land owners and residents we will be having and i know meeting on september twenty eighth two thousand and sixteen we hope to engage with our community to listen to their concerns and discuss ways to make our town better during the last year with bonds from the office of economic development and membership dues the association started so we're just simply here to support the least it's been for you that you will be acting on today thank you very much thank you very much any questions or follow ups for the supplier see no thank you very much the last testifier in the know there's very few places in ky here that service families it is also really it's a gathering place for veterans not only when we hold our meetings but they'll just as i was before you for the housing committee this morning and i thank you for your passing there but i humbly ask you to support our veterans these are men and women who fight for us many give their lives for us and it's place where families and friends can gather and we can hold each other's hand when we need to cheer each other on and when we neared me to simply have a place to call our own and i am a member of the v f w thirty the first amendment to lease granting an extension of time in reduction in rent for the veterans of foreign wars veteran center and community activists say at least the purpose of the proposed resolution is to authorize june thirtieth twenty fifty six and number two is to reduce the annual rent from one hundred dollars to one dollar the committee may consider whether to recommend adoption of the revised proposed resolution with or without resistance or the committee may also consider filing of county communication eighteen one sixty nine and other related actions members of the v f w lease covers two parcels as indicated and set aside by executive order forty eighty seven and forty three forty two composing of a total of two point two seven eight acres for the veterans center and community support activities i have here with us on the four v f w post commander danny kind of halliday who would like to see if you opening remarks if you like thank you very much commander and also we have mike molino from the mayor's office if you'd like to present an open comment or statement in the mayor's office course the request is to extend the lease agreement up until june thirtieth of two thousand and fifty six as well as reduce the rent from a dollar from one hundred dollars to a dollar a year and usually the v f w has been on the property since the late  property as mentioned earlier was conveyed to from the state to the county and is currently managed by the parks department if you have used this site in key for veterans activities and also as a venue for the public to use for a family get togethers such as reunions graduation parties and also for nonprofit raising events and also as a sleep over an activity site for many youth organizations and recently being sensitive to the tax dollars for needed maintenance of the area the initiative and reached out to the community and various businesses and individuals for donations of funds materials and labor the community responded in kind and today the v f w hall and outdoor benches  includes a lot of educational outreach promoting patriotism and democracy in our public and private schools and with regards to the fee reduction to one dollar a year it would be consistent with that of some of our other non profits would be the same amount for a year for property that's leased from the county the administration would humbly ask for your approval over these proposals to support the veterans of the v f w many of whom have served our country on battlefields in europe korea vietnam iraq and afghanistan  i had you know i worked on getting the actual yield the first deal because they were doing it leasing it from the deal on our one month at a time and that was one of their their requests way back in two thousand and four so we got that  then they found out that some of their land is some of their structures or is on a little piece of land so they added the second parcel it's a good asset for the community and i fully support and as they said they've cleaned it up and it looks really good i think almost everybody here has been there since the cleanup and seeing that it's in much better shape  fully support this thank you the other comments from the members your questions on this cochran thank you chair and so i guess the current least won't expire for is amending the existing lease all right so i mean ok i just thought it was ready to expire soon that's why we're here to extend and i'm all for extension of course and definitely for dropping the cost from fifteen down to a dollar i mean we gave a for profit entity a dollar a year lease for sixty years i mean to our veterans about of course that's a that's a given so i completely support that but i was looking at a map here a thin come through the state inversion maps and it shows like the two properties as was stated where the existing building is on there's like a rectangular shape than the rest of it becomes the second parcel but there's a line this is beach and then the whole property line just out from the beach so is that into the ocean or is it just i know it's a very sandy area so or is it considered i guess this is i mean the sounds like right where the stage is too so i mean is the beach just vary in length runs in lynn i see that because i'm looking at the boundary lines and thought oh if that's the beach alignment and the rest is ocean to you have a and then a line of trees and then the sand it's my understanding they have to at least the line of trees and even that little you know not exactly where they're sure that line is but it's leased out to the line of trees up county has executive order to now so we this is a piece of that  the recommending body soul when we process the lease originally we took the g r c's recommendation fifteen years hundred dollars a year when we went through b o n r and all of that process because it's yield and when we came to this body the question was raised why only fifteen years why a hundred dollars and our response essentially was could we please just pass it like this and we promised of course this can you that question the body the council  requested of the parks department mr million and myself to why it was like that and we just basically said this time because we already went through b l n r any amendments would be difficult so we  we asked this body to just pass it with the fifteen years and one hundred dollars a year and we would work with the parties to come in with this amendment in years later here we are so i'm just wondering if you were proposing a project that for financing the needed additional length of the lease or other things that would drive this request because that's what normally we get there's a financial component to their i understand the service given and what we try to do we're the one you kind of believe that we are pretty taxation of active duty service men men and women so we do our best to support our residents this from day one they're going to continue to use this as i understand now to twenty fifty six why do we need to be in the picture but the state a libya would be or whatever national sea and i think we've had in the past requests for executive order to lands to be released and somehow they want to hold on to us but we'll make an effort and i'll sign off on agree if the state was is willing to convey the entire property in fee simple but if at some point our letter indicates to them that we don't want to be responsible for that land maybe have the v f w will be in the same position they were prior to us when they had to do one month one month lease agreements with the state so we will draft in a way that that if they wanted a long term lease than that they should executive order it to the county and then the county can do the lease so that's why we went that route all right so we'll send a letter just just you know if they're willing to convey it in fees simple to the v f w if and if they say no then that's fine it was just continue what we're doing but anyway members of any other questions youth groups and others i've seen you do it is so that's very thankful for that and that's what i was to check and support you know you can go write letters to d l and are in all in the state and you know how long that might declare you know you could be a great grandfather by the time that  did being said i'd rather do what we can here give them to at least at the dollar a year get them taking care of and then let's work on it later because i hate to hold this up for for for that issue and it may take a long time in you know so much m church the church will entertain a motion to adopt the revised proposed resolution entitled authorizing the first amendment to the lease granting an extension of time in reduction in rent for the veterans of foreign affairs  skimming the veteran veterans of foreign wars veterans center and community activities at least incorporating the revisions as indicated and the filing of county communications sixteen one like to say that it is our great honor to pass this through and we truly truly appreciate and are very thankful for all your service is that you've done for us in this new generation and then generation  thirty six also the call one is dated may thirteenth two thousand and sixteen from the department cooperation council transmitting a revised proposed bill entitle the bill for an ordinance amending title three maui county code relating to the special improvement two thousand and sixteen to the director of parks and public works and finance director and planning director requesting comments on the proposed bill the community may consider whether to recommend passage of the revised proposed bill on first reading with or without revisions and also the committee may consider the filing of county communication fifteen dash one sixty five and other related actions members you have you before you the proposed bill to authorize the creation of  special improvement district and we did take a look at this last meeting we held on this subject matter and i believe the spring some concerns concerns were raised regarding the possible downsides of tax increment legislation additionally some members asked for various departments to weigh in with their thoughts on the proposed legislation and legislation to help clarify the issues i passed out a general memorandum describing the law the special improvement districts in hawaii including the current maui county ordinances at article three title fourteen county code which i understand has never been implemented  rich and he is founding president of whitey keep each special improvement district association and the president of the board of the white keep each special improvement district under his and fourteen to work to revitalize the white the signage ordinance as well as rezone the commercial areas rewrote like you keep publication rack ordinance and is the and also address homeless issues in waikiki why he's here today to present and to give us a presentation of the workings or or the procedures and some of the details but along with the special improvement district in a way to see so i'd like to introduce mr eggen and having present his i guess he has a short power point thank you very much you have a new opening statements before even thank you chair members of the committee appreciate the set up a special program to strip or a way to keep and at the time there was they were not there was no legislation that allowed such things in the way so first task and i think mike you're in the legislature the time first task was to get the legislation at the state level approved which we were able to do this first slide just talks about what is the business improvement district or a special permit district it's an area that's set aside for additional services where the primarily usually these things come from the community and as i'm sure that sounds like the similar situation here where your pay a community has has come forward and requested this consideration of the council   the idea that some additional services need to be need to take place in a primarily and a business district and so the ok and then so this was the legislation that passed at the state level and interestingly enough these kind of things are not a slam dunk in hawaii because the way as you i'm sure you're very much aware of is a very centralized as a very centralized numbers were declining we were looking at a lot of difficulties in our aging key i mean i remember but this is what it looked like and  we had built this reputation even among our own community is because being a quote tourist trap unquote our residence east of the point where they prided themselves by saying well i never go to a key anymore and it and this was the reason so the first in this is and actually if you look on their website now they have a new logo this as the original logo set up a business improvement district for wakey and here it was it was really interesting the way we originally structured this because the blue area in the central area was actually the service area where we were taking care of the of the sidewalks the landscaping and providing the hospitality services for the outlying area which actually was still being assessed didn't get the direct services so what happened was we set up a different levels of assessment because on the theory that the service area of the college corridor the value of them keeping that area in good shape benefit all avoid key not just the businesses in that particular area it was a so this was in june of two thousand we established the first special permit district in in the state way we did this was we actually passed the law the ordinance that enabled such districts in honolulu at the same time the two bills moved forward in tandem with just being very careful that the ordinance business improvement district association the idea is to have a good board of directors so the board of directors who represents the property owners and the businesses that we just are leasing property within the area so there's two levels of directors and a director which is a property owner in a b director which is a business is that a business that may just lease the property and they have equal status they believe they all get a vote on the board and of assessment and in the first district again it was split based on proximity to the services these were the precincts and the whole idea was to be able to provide better services to keep the sidewalks clean and shiny and to provide hospitality information services in fact i think it was the first when we first did our first  around we picked up forty thousand pieces of gum sidewalks and key and the this is the primary service area in so you can see the difference for example you know before we did the power original power washing away sidewalks were gray turns out they're not washed and then they look clean or at least tan and  have and we're on the other big thing is even just spills when you get a lot of traffic on a sidewalk and people make have a spill if you don't have a method for making sure that gets cleaned and then it can take a long time before  work for the district and they also do a beach patrol and in this in conjunction with h p s efforts we were able to dramatically reduce beach crime which was one of the primary issues in waikiki and we also there's their their most use utility to us is out on patrol not sitting behind cameras and so believe it or not we had the cameras before we had the business improvement district and before the business improvement district nobody was actually even looking at the cameras so they were providing some hopefully some evidence and some ability to go back and check for a crime but nobody was actively looking at it by monitoring it were able to notify the police department immediately of  issues and then the idea is to provide information and this again actually takes some of the burden off of the off of the police department the we monitor very closely the different sidewalk activities that take place  keep that often become a problem this is the kind of questions that get asked for officers and just recently we've been very successful in getting the state to greet to he beaches is the single most important natural asset in the state actually in the it's a major playground not only for visitors but the people of hawaii it has tremendous cultural significance and yet that beach is eroding we're losing it if we don't do something about it and we can lose a very valuable asset we cooperated with the why tourism authority to do a study and how valuable the beach actually was and were able to determine through asking visitors how likely they were to come without a beach that it really meant about two billion dollars a year in visitor expenditures two to us and so we knew we needed a comprehensive beach mean it's a plan we've been doing ad hoc projects with the on our this is the last one we did this was the beach before we pumped sand in from offshore recycle the sand this is the before picture this is the after picture so you can see we can make a dramatic difference by maintaining our beach so the original proposal was to create the beach management district we've done that we've set up the district association we also contracted with the would see grant to provide technical assistance and this fall we'll be providing funds to  one growing which i'll talk about a minute this is the original budget so this is this is a cement differently from the original be id this is a flat seven point six cents per thousand all the commercial properties not not residences but commercial properties only and this is the boundaries of the district which these are actually the legal boundaries of wakey key special district bylaws well we've been we've again worked hundred twenty seven can see the growing at the bottom of this picture it holds that entire beach in place all the way to the beach basins which is the office this works here so this is  assessment went out in august now this sounds like everything happening really fast but in reality it took us about two years to get to the point where we could set it up and so that's a real brief overview of the two special improvement districts in waikiki and i'm happy to answer any questions with how it works i talk to briefly with the chair prior to the meeting and i think that the real key to getting thing up and working properly is to work with them only finance office the whoever sends out the property tax billing has the way this works is that in honolulu is that each property owner receives this is a line item on his property his or her property tax and so then is treated just like the property tax is secondary in terms of for example if it's not then obviously property taxes to be paid first but the comes in second so again i kind of zip through that because a very cognisant of the valuable of your time is so i'm happy to answer any questions you have thank you very much m hit i would like to ask the various departments to come down to the floor planning and also public works before we begin and open in open up the floor for questions i would like to  oka to go through the the general memorandum that was drafted and give us some explanation and i know that a lot of constituents as well as maybe some members don't really have a full concept of what a special improvement district is and what that it is in fact in our ordinance is currently and has never been used and what is the difference between what we ha mister i'm not overly familiar with the existing improvement districts in title fourteen i mean difference in my understanding is why you want a special improvement district versus what's exist security extra janitorial services types activities that's the primary difference between the existing and what i would want to add in the  to go through the entire bill if you're not the entire bill why don't you just give us a snapshot of what the important components are for instance how do we assess these properties and what is  designated as the improvement district boundaries things like that just a brief overview of what exactly is a special improvement district ok thanks so i guess if this bill passes and the framework in enabling legislation exists then as it was explained earlier on in our nance would be passed creating the special improvement would set a rate for the real property tax for that year for just for this special improvement to cover their costs and it would be collected by the department of finance as mentioned with the real property tax i guess the difference is because it's partly a real property tax everyone was in there proving this strict asked to pay if you don't pay we have the power of the property tax foreclosure  and i believe the big island did the same thing so it's very complicated and it all take some time to you know really get a better understanding of it as you're working through it but it's doable huddles on holes ordinance which which we had originally proposed back in two thousand and was passed in two thousand and one and it works very well essentially everybody pays their property tax and everybody pays the assessment it's very rare that we have to try to collect from somebody and again that's done by the county and the the value of the assessment the way the system works is the assessment of the regional assessment is by the before the council it's public hearing i know it's that the language for how it's approved is the same as it is in honolulu so essentially everybody we have to actually notify everybody who's being assessed by mail that this is what is being considered and usually again the content county clerk does that and to oppose it it has to be done in writing and there's two levels that have to be achieved to to pass it in other words it has to get it has to have less than fifty percent opposition both in terms of numbers of parcels and in values of the parcels and we wrote it that way specifically so that the small property owners couldn't say well this was jammed down our throat by the big guys because their property is worth more and therefore they get more votes than we do and the same time the large property owners can say that well this was jammed down our throat by the little guys because they have one property one vote even though their property is worth way less than ours so the way to to satisfy that we said you have to meet both criteria is you have to have fifty percent of the total parcels  or less than fifty percent the total parcels protesting and less than fifty percent of the total value protesting and so i think that the key is and obviously you would hope that any community that brings this to you would have a broad level of support within the community and that was that was certainly with my council members and who told me this is rick we like this idea but make sure that there's no major opposition and as it was only five percent protest it was a it was a very universally accepted and i think if you asked any business in a way he today if this was a good idea you would be hard pressed to find somebody who told you it wasn't and so yes it is an additional tax i mean you can call i assessment but in reality there's no question about it when you when you must pay it's a tax but you it's specific the property it's specific services for it and the other major difference is that the budget and the operations are controlled within the district so when going forward and the following year they don't have to come back to the council and ask for the assessment again it continues on year after year and there's a in our district legislation you know there's a ten percent buffer in other words you can increase the the budget up to ten percent without coming back to the county council but if you did if you crease the beyond that you'd have to get permission from the county council or if you added any additional services they weren't allowed in your district plan c which are the bill before you today sets up the enabling legislation you don't have a district plan before you the i think there's one proposed that  s being discussed but if you don't have that legislation yet is that correct chair yes so actual service is performed within the district have to be one of the services that's listed as potential under the special permit district and again your list is exactly the same as the one in honolulu and the only thing that's different which isn't on your current list that we just recently twenty fifteen added each improvements and because that was a need in what he and wasn't on the original list was in foreseen when we did this back in two thousand but is makes a lot of sense today but i think that the key is once you've got it set up it will work well it'll be a little bit of work for your finance department to set it up and because you have to essentially have to have a list and then usually including in the district in fact that's the required under your  legislation and you would have to provide all the in the district as it was trying to as it's a proposal i just to be set up would have to give you a list of all the parcels that would be included within the district and then those parcels again as i said earlier would be notified that this is under consideration and so then have the opportunity to protest it before the council before it was an act trying to think of what other some of the mechanics that were were involved in it but i don't see any particular reason why it should be that difficult to do i mean it will be a little bit of a chore to set it up but and we also worked with kona when they set up their district and have it and it goes through a very simple explanation of the improvement district or at least a special improvement district or one of the the issues i may bring up is that these special improvement districts have to be i guess miry with an association is that correct correct this o c a should has to be created then that is in there follows your enabling legislation and again your n legislation is the same as ours so you would then incorporate a nonprofit improvement district association that would then operate in the district and there their board of directors would have to be set up  keeping with the enabling legislation so the idea is to make sure that all the stakeholders are represented on the board and then the board itself with administer and then make a decision on budget and the like  ordinates like for instance security trash pick up things like that they couldn't on the whim decide what the monies would be used for correct there would have to be one of the purposes outlined in your enabling legislation which you're have to go through the same process you'd have to come back to the council and you'd have to again notify all of the property owners that you're planning to expand services so the whole idea is that you want to make sure there's a public process involved in operating in governing the district as well so although they can continue on without much red tape in terms of going back to the council any change would have to be approved by the council so so if there is a special improvement district and the boundaries are identified like a certain neighborhood and and it's agreed upon  instance everyone gets taxed the same throughout the county but any additional taxes would be added on to those properties in that district boundary and the percentage of that my niece would be used for certain purposes say security or whatever the purposes are designated within the artists as part of their district plan they would have to tell you exactly what the services they're going to provide are they would give you the initial budget and then the assessment rate which you would have to approve or not i mean that would be up to the council and going forward the way the legislation is written they would have to have to report to the council annually as to how much money they collected what they use it for and so that essentially becomes a check somebody could that be it's a public document if they were to be using those funds for something other than what is allowed by law they could be challenged there they have a certain amount of latitude to increase the assessment or the budget but if it be in our situation if it goes beyond that ten percent then you would have to come back to the council and request approval they usually there's also as property values go up and therefore they end up with less money with more money so we rarely have really had to increase the assessment the council and has to go through this process of protest by all the property owners because again if you're not setting up a separate organization that is free to do whatever it wants it's only a law allowed to do those very specific services and those services have to be part of your enabling legislation if they are not then you would have to change the enabling legislation to allow for those services like we had with beach improvements so i think this is a it's a really good tool they're used for all kinds of things all across the mainland if you look at some of the things that are allowed there you can see what i mean they've they're used to do parking additional parking and in business areas there are security income leena so to them probably most prominent ones some communities use them for marketing it does to doesn't tend to be something we do here because we have the maui visitors bureau of the wall visitors bureau to do most of their marketing for us but sometimes they're used for that for example some communities have a huge big festival season that is very popular in that particular region of the country so sometimes that improvement district will operate such a festival for example and so there's a number of different things you can do just as long as you've gone through the process of making sure that those whose uses are approved by the council by the mayor by the community because  it in its speaks about enabling the special type of its enabling statute that allows the counties to create the special permit districts and it also talks about the ability to to use bonds it's allowed by the law we try to make the original enabling legislation broad enough to cover anything we could think of in that's why it allows that but to my knowledge that's not that's not been used in hawaii ok and it hasn't been  say but because this would have to be a bond there would be i think it would be more like a special purpose revenue bonds because it would have to be covered by this very specific funding source and usually at least at the state level a special purpose revenue bond does not affect the state's overall bond capacity because the revenue comes from a different source ok if you like to open up the floor to any questions starting with mr okama and then followed by m to our department dated september second i think it was we tried to get it on friday but they didn't get to use or again i apologize mr chair for that but there is still section of the one that i have enabling legislation going to be will follow our billings and all that it's not much work for us is just more reports that we have to do which i think our system the new system that these by the gate to us can do it the challenge is going to be i would be training our people how to get these reports accordingly and this is going to be based on the legislation that  create there is nothing is impossible if they treat sources though to implement them i am not experience with this special districts but i can almost say sure that i will be returning more  questions from the taxpayers where this takes effect because i do that now if i have returned a lot of calls to taxpayers when they have questions on their assessment their billings and at the same time the staff will be trained also with regards to this particular section there's also an area where and please take this this is my own concern my own sentiment it's why you cannot get it they want to gated community they want to security guard all whatever then i think that just one ok i have heard the percent ation today that the board decides how this money is spent the money that you are a step back so it's my own belief as i suggest our taxpayer the only people that can use or appropriate that money are the elected officials who raise the pax not a board that is elected by their just their members that's the way i see it but again again this is my own bias ok so there will be places that this is a very useful and not seven point six percent that there that's that's just ok because i kind of looked at the proposed special district right now they're contributing seven hundred thousand dollars they want seventy five thousand munity getting a special one because we can afford it the small district that they can afford to script scrape the floor and mop the sidewalks it's a small area by you know what that is a high value again there are special districts has been successful but my initial reading and this and i don't have any experience on this personally started in california but now they're that's a burden for the other rest of the community so it's a little bit more work for me to do this person or maybe it will not be me any more because the more years here hopefully to do this but i can see that there are some things that need to be done  burden that we put in the community again i emphasize this is danny out by as with regards to this is not the position of the administration and i'd be more than happy to answer any more questions you might have so that's what i want you to respond we stick here thank you for the question i probably will be able to give you a timeframe to do the cost study to do so i just want to give you one example on a little an difficult but these are just my concerns ok parisian ali that that's the concern i have discussed with my staff and again i wish i had more time to discuss it with i think we will come up with some more but again because if we had the resources to implement this i think it everything is can be done there we think it's the war ball with the resources available again it still be the taxpayers money as they had and things and i would emphasize should be the elected officials that use the money they race not a board because now we become a collection agency for either areas that want to do this for either non profits because why wouldn't the chamber of commerce be able to do this within their own membership collect their money from their members and spend their money according to their by laws why would they need a county ordinance parker similarity real property tax and the department of finance has the same very powerful collection authority so i think that's the advantage for it and whether or not this body think that's a good idea that's a policy matter but that's the difference i would say thank you chair thank you mr cowen thank you mister to the question on the on the bar and if you look at page twenty four three point seven affect the credit because it's a special assessment for that one area my biggest concern before we go too much further is in page eight three point seven zero point zero nine  o the institution of proceedings the way i read it and i may be wrong part b it is essentially twenty five percent of the people in the district can vote vote this  the ordinance and protest process so twenty five percent could get it started but if you had a fifty percent protest it would fail ok and in regards to your bond issue  regardless of it's whether or not it's on the credit of the colony it would still be an additional burden on the taxpayer they're for when they look at it they look at our re our valuations and all that so it would play and i  play in at all i don't know if that complete true statement but that calculation for the section thirteen article seven i believe that's where the we can't exceed one percent or something there's a percentage so that it just wouldn't factor into that but burden on those particular tax payers but that would be something maybe that we could we can ask certainly the city and county if they're when they go give their presentations do they have to include  big i mean that be would be a question i would ask if it affects their bond rating when when they when they talk to the raiders as well yeah there are hey that is having some issues that we thought about doing this at that time but they just couldn't afford it so if this place it couldn't afford it and they're left out as opposed to another place that might be able for maybe you could afford it but as mr axelrod said if those numbers are correct we're going to have to do at least ten percent and that gives them seventy grand so it's not a lot and for a ten percent increase in in their individual taxes i'm willing to look through this i like the idea if if we can institute some sort of  chair a couple of questions you know i think one of the one of the distinctions is that the using the chamber option why can't the chamber do this a chamber can't make people pay dues they can't make people join they can't make people do anything i look at this opportunity as being summer to what happens in kind of poly while a couple and like canada where there was enough foresight of the developers to make make it possible have covenants that say if you're going to buy property here you're going to participate in the kind of public beach operators association which takes care of security that cetera if you're going to buy property here you're going to participate in the couple of beach resort association which is the marketing arm so as property owners there we're required to put in x amount of dollars for market in x amount of dollars for facilities and security you know maintenance and security so i view this as a bill that simply allows other areas organize in the same way it's too late for them to do you know covenants that require people to do that but it's not too late for us to provide a method by which they can choose their own  their own needs or two ways of addressing their own needs whether it be security whether it be marketing whether it be something else that they feel is in porton and the reason i'm i'm kind of comfortable  with allowing each community to make their own decision and i understand the fact that maybe some can afford it some can't but i'd like to think that there are ways in which we can allow the communities that we lean on the most for the most taxes likely has a much higher rate of tax rate or much higher values and therefore higher taxes than other areas those that were leaning on more to have some ability to organize and do things to help themselves to be able to provide a better and better engagement with the visitor better again with what the residents and provide for themselves in ways that were they're not able to do now to lift themselves up and do a better job for everyone that comes to their establishments and in doing so better be able to afford the taxes that are driven by their values those values are totally out of their control but the the ability to do things for themselves is not out of their control this is simply a mechanism by which we're allowing them to take care of business on their own without having to come back to us they are there are coming back to us they're coming back to us with a budget so we can say yes or no so the onus is on them to do something with their board and with their budget that makes sense for their area and come and justify it before the council so that's what you've got to do in waikiki pain into it and yet the services are only in the central core and but that is uplifting all the neighborhoods and uplifting the experience of the residents going back into waikiki mr reagan didn't mention whether the residents had returned away kiki but i'm i'm assuming i'm assuming the least some of them are so i think this is a  is a mechanism that makes sense for us to make available not every community is going to want to go through the process but it's something that that i think is important for us to consider and i also point out that this is not approving to do it this is simply providing the structure within which he or someone else can come in and try to see if they can put together the community support that will drive the initial the you know the eventual demential set up itself so i think it's it's more than worth our our consideration e types of these types of situations do you have any thoughts on why they're trying to go in the other direction well i don't think that's a general discussion in california there's some discussion in certain districts there are over a thousand of these across the country and i think actually new york as the most as over forty in different neighborhoods in new york and the only two districts that i've known of that that i think mr oxley was referring to were in california where they decided to not continue and i think that that's actually a good thing the fact that that's happened means that people if they don't happy with it they can change their mind they can stop doing it you know and i think that the the whole key is that this initiative for this comes from the community so the community comes to the console and is looking for this ability enabling legislation you're considering now and will allow that to be possible and i think that the question of who is approving this this assessment this tax it should be the elected officials the final authority as you pointed out chair ways is with the council and in the end it's a self assessment the way we always describe it is a business is a self assessment and as in the fifty percent or more now you could say that you know that still means that fifty or sixty percent of the business is or are forcing it on the other thirty or forty percent that they don't like it but we've not we have never experienced it i think that with we did the beach district we had a little bit more protests a little bit more protests so we think the highest was at about seven percent in general i mean there's a lot of support for being able to have this to do this collective action i think i want to point out again because it's really a critical point is only the commercial property speaking assessed and so residents do not pay anything and yet they do accrue some of the benefits and yes we do have a lot of residents that have come back the way kiki and i think it's because one of the reasons is that they feel like waikiki is a place that they can again be proud of you know as well kept well maintained it's very secure and as a result to a degree of with what happened with the business improvement district so i just wanted to comment on that the question of whether there's a reimbursement the riginal be id that it was if you look at them across the country often there is cities percentage for rail because that was a really an arbitrary figure but if you had a figure that was tied specifically to the cost of doing it on the county level i don't think that's unfair sitting kind of honolulu did not impose that for the original b a d because they wanted to encourage businesses in the area to agree to additional fees in order to fund it ishall services and so that that's why that that came about in that fashion when we did the beach district we did there is a provision in our beach district enabling legislation which i think you may have received a copy of as well which allows the the county can charge and a ongoing fee which is it cannot exceed five percent of the total collected or the actual costs whichever is less thank you you know there is talk of needing to build facilities and then there's going to be ongoing maintenance for that and i don't know which which area this title fourteen would be most deployable to but there is some discussion with the property owners already about forming a district specifically to take care of their erosion and i think this is a perfect tool for that my feeling is that we underutilized this kind of tool to help people out where there are special needs and and of course and where there is an ability to pay back that assessment so i just i look at this i haven't looked at other models i haven't looked at waikiki i just question if it has to be as complex as crazy weather that we've had so thank you very much and our meeting is adjourn