or and he'll be followed by mike moran y yes mr chair again the first test fires johnson don extension for two years so i can get this property up and running i've had a difficult time over the last two and a half years trying to raise  capital i can't i'm not strong enough myself to do it and it's very difficult to find developers who are concerned more about money than the actual the actual needs of our community and i own this property for eleven years i've been trying for eleven years to put something good together for the community so i could participate and healthy affordable housing community and i'm requesting  you mr chair the last testifier signed up as mike moran testifying as a representative key a community so sation carroll and a committee members mike moran for the key gay community association all of you are very familiar with residential projects which received all required conditions and then do not break around for permits no one wants to request an extension as time expires with no penalty this is defeating perhaps if the developer was required to post a bond to be forfeited if the requirement is not fulfilled this process could achieve what was intended however we know not all projects for those develop developing them them are on equal footing a project that claims to be one hundred percent affordable is allowed to skip normal requirements because of the dire need for our community and using the two zero eight two zero one each process called fast track as we examine this project this afternoon we understood almost five years ago a very close five four council vote approved this and seven members are still on the council but just for forty members of this committee with two new members but some reservations were mentioned among those approving in two thousand and eleven including then chair bice's for telling quote it remains to be seen if this ever gets built five years ago five years later and nothing so what now in conversing with mr sindo in he explained to us he had lost a major funding but believes he is now able to secure what is needed if you allow a two year extension and still complete the project by the original cutoff date of twenty twenty one at this point with this information we have been able to secure we believe the reasonable choice is allowed these two additional years what is the alternative refusing the extension means what no chance for this affordable at all so why are we commend the council for placing this time restriction to ensure projects are not land bank in this case allowing the extension seems the best choice however we once again bring up actions by the council about eighteen years ago with the councils not the communities key hey mckenna community people and as mr coutts reminds us it is europe yes sir we feel that in this case every case is individual and with the help of mr couches office i was able to communicate with mrs dunny when he explained the situation to us in detail we felt this was the prudent  five years that have given you confidence that this will finally happen i don't think the committee member car can i don't think i would use the word confident but when we try to look at the alternatives it's like my understanding is today you say yes or no to an extension if you say no and then there's like a month left till the expires then i would have to assume it's not going to get built unless somebody else comes along and that will probably take many more years so we felt this is the the action is what harm is it going to do to give him two more years to see if he can get it done he says you know and you heard him i talked to many told you guys and he told me he now feels he does have funding and again that was our understanding what other choice is there to say no and and punish and say ok now it will get built as opposed to giving him two years two more years i certainly have no guarantee and i don't expect that mrs nonny has any guarantee either but that's what he's professing so we're saying i guess that's the best action to take thank you and previously on when this is discussed k c supported it honestly we weren't in a position five years casey's been around forever but we were not established as well as we are now we do a formal review so we just looked at it and said we were one of those that were asking how many projects are we going to say ok two and then ten years go by and nothing so we felt with a term limit on it seemed like the right thing to do but again it's sometimes it's tough comparing apples and oranges not picking on them because we all know of a huge corporate entity like a and b has much greater resources than the small entity and sometimes one rule doesn't fit everyone you know the answer no just prompted me to remember that i did think it was a good location for this type of project but what i wanted to share with you was i've recently been trying to educate myself on why don't these affordable housing projects get built because besides this one we've seen you know many other that of the two a one each has come through and i've spoken to several different developers along the way and i've spoken to people who are involved in these projects and just what was brought up this idea that when folks come before you looking for the entitlements they don't have their financing lined up and they can't get their financing lined up because no one's going to finance a project or commit money to a project that doesn't have the entitlements now if this applicant says he now has a good chance of lining that up i would not want to pull the rug out from under him at this point by the way but i do agree that that process is if for the way we do it it's a little bit backwards in that we hope that the person appearing here is the developer is going to honestly be able to do it but he can't honestly stand here at the two a one h face and say yes i can do this because there's unless he's a really rich guy with a whole bunch of money is pocket no one's going to commit money to a project that doesn't first have all the entitlements in place so i hope that today grant this extension and hope this this folk in the cape can get his indictments or modification for resolution eleven dish twenty three which then requires that the project construction begin by march eighteenth twenty teen and be completed by march eighteenth twenty twenty one thank you chair good afternoon the club i had a practical one hundred twenty unit multifamily condo low income project for families earning sixty to eighty percent of the area median income the developer has been in contact with our department over the past several months and they indicated that they had encountered barriers to getting finances as he indicated in his testimony and the lead question extension originally they asked for five years however the department is requesting a two year extension to be granted the developer indicates that the project has secured financial backing with a new partner and that the property should break ground in approximately eighteen months newport beach and is their projects here on the island or in the state that you can get that they've done they have only a number of properties here on maui two on the upper west they just repurchase the purely shopping center from them i have known and have been associated with them for a number of years and he will commit to do the do the project with me this would be the first affordable housing project he's done very understands the need in the desire to help the affordable housing community if i could get the extension and also have department of water supply re approved my water lateral plan that was originally approved and there was no changes when we resubmitted i will be able to get that commitment and secure the financing i'm going to do there i could get this thing off the ground finally i am after eleven years of ownership ok and so the crash the credit state you stand to gain from this project its one hundred twenty thousand credits that will not become redeemable until after their property is constructed and then they would become redeemable if i could locate people who would be interested in purchasing affordable housing credits i'm sure you've been following the project directly of next door to yours that got approved yesterday here and be project kamani oh yes the  design and then they'll go to the cost and once it is costs it out they will issue me a participation proposal and it cost proposal for my program to share water lines in meters for the property and the water lateral plan expired so we called up the deputy director and somebody in the engineering department and  public works has already approved the plan but department of water supply has been inundated with urgent projects it's been very difficult to get them to give me the approval if i could ask you for your help to help intervene for me that i could just get that that's going to secure the only other issue that i have with jupiter holdings is the water lateral re approval which will be in compliance the county agreement that we have for the issuance of our for our water we are not going to install the water meters initially i know there is a water storage  issue there short on water storage up there however we think we could mitigate everything once we get the new water storage facility going and if you could help me to get someone to just sign off i'll be able to secure these funds and finally do something for you know i've been trying to two for eleven years believe me if i had the money i be the nasty and be they help me but in be you know has  their own their their own program but they would be willing to accommodate us to participate in this which way it's going to help the water for everybody in our neighborhood all the water pressure there are areas where the water pressure is bad for a lot of people this is going to take care of all of that and i would be proud to be part o thank you that kind of leaves a lot of i guess more questions for me though ok and especially chair with his water issues it doesn't sound like it's not only were issued well it's because then you're an area roll design if i can finish on your new partners i think are having sort of a concern to it sounds like you said jupiter and this real proof of the water lateral at the partment a water supply is kind of a contingent upon them buying in fully contingencies the extension and the reproval of the water lateral plan to water apply a plan that was already approved has no changes it's all the same and they asked us to resubmit it which we did usually it's called a fast track process so we can get you through the process quickly so you can get your project going so it implies that there was a rush and now did you or your funder fall out or did you not have the funding at the time after we were approved in two thousand and eleven we join forces with an affordable housing developer that done a lot of projects over on a wahoo and over on the mainland we hooked up to them for eighteen months and he failed to perform that's with through a century or more it takes a certain person who is thinks more of the community and less of his pocketbook ok to has a vision to help ok if i had the money myself believe me sir shirt i had it done already ok that's why i'm asking your help today i mean i've owned it for eleven years i've been able to hang on and i'm trying my best and it people out there are greedy ok they don't seem to understand some of the issues in our concerns in needs of our own community i'm only trying to do my part for my island so i can sail off into the sunset chain get retired some day ok maybe move back to h s originally started but i need your help so and i understand that i understand sometimes you get some people that are going to prague through but it's making me two and a half years to find another dive talk to many people but it's taken me this two and a half years to locate jupiter holdings of food commit to me if they could get the these entitlements back and they know they're from now we can either not going to have a problem with getting our two two inch water lines and i'll have enough time to get all my everything all my plans and specs to get ready it's going to take you know nine months six to nine months to do that and i said the first thing we're going to do we're not going to ask to put in the water meters were first thing we're go do is of course start on our all or architectural and engineering but we want to put the landscape well drilled to get there first because we want to use the landscape water not part of the water during the construction and we also  get started on the park which we've agreed to try to upgrade and fix up so the community could have a nicer park than the condition it's in now well you know what what happens when this next if this next guy falls through but i have a commitment from them in writing so if he says these two issues can we get copies of that i don't have that with me but they've already presented me a letter to join forces with me i didn't bring that because i can get it is as soon as i get the my my watery lateral done and my extension to and i'd if this passes through i'd like to see that but act that kind of you know hinges on my final vote is that we have some sort of commitment because you know that would   i would be happy to do my program this year for that but the condition that was imposed was for me to do the entire highway heaney from from holly chi st all the way down to the pilani highway now i know through my conversations with the m b that they are going to do something down on the bottom right i certainly cannot afford on my own to do it all by myself but i would be i want to guest chair thank you very much and thank you miss indonesia for being here my sister and i appreciate your passion about wanting to build affordable housing thank you we certainly need to build affordable housing and we're always glad that there are people that are willing to do it but as you know i am the chair of the water resources committee and i am concerned about your concerns with the water department and what's going on there  director of the w a s and i don't know when this letter is dated this is back in september in september of two thousand and fifteen ok we are now in february yes when you met with them what did you find out i met with him and tammy be from their engineering department and they wanted to review the project which they did and about six weeks later they busy so that plan was submitted when let's see i believe it was the first week of november and then the vendor eight hundred department of public works sent their approval in and we've been for us hopefully to do the same so it would be in compliance with the agreement that we have for our lines now there are concerns they had was the water pressure which i think i thousand gallon tank on the existing site right there were the closest to my property and with booster pumps and we also were going to a  previous administration had given the ok for another affordable housing developer to hook into the main transmission line which was a big no no but they did it anyway and i offered to take them off that line put it into our in line and go up there in till the main one was built and they would have additional fire flows at the park fire department was asking for because of the lack of  storage and this would certainly help them but nothing has happened ok ok well thank you very much you know i really would like to give you that extension it certainly makes sense that you know we have this much in it and you have this much  it so you know another two years is really not under reasonable but chair i really would like to have some confirmation from the water department as to the status of this plan before we make a decision master plan its own for our one for fifty lots of efficient i hired chris hart in associates to help my planner to help me do a district boundary management and a change in zoning and we were approved if a few years later for the forty seven lots of division at that hearing and here in this chamber joanne ridout who was the previous director of the eighty eight c approached me and asked me if i would consider making the project all four we got together and she started telling me all about all the affordable housing the need for affordable housing and it inspired me so much i tried to two hundred percent ok and the second lowest tier on top of it believe me if i had of money myself we wouldn't be standing here today we'd be celebrating for the affordable housing community i want to please give me an opportunity to get this finally up off the ground it's going very difficult to find the right combination of people to have the same vision that we have i appreciate that but  under six thousand square foot with no harness that allowed thank you but i believe the rate i don't know what the rate is but the property is on our run our dash one possess been one of my sticklers chair is when we do changes from ag to any other type a zone or should get into a different tax bracket that the owner applicant whatever is not pain the new zoning change or rate they ought to be because actually i have his tax here and it is ag so there's a disconnect this is another example of disconnect between when we do changes on land use and it doesn't relate to our p t and here were jews in my i'm sorry that he wants he's a pretty kind of stuff you know with money issues but it's what's do this county l in our binder is the deal we has not received any word from either department or yourself i was not aware of that but i had already agreed to  don't doubt that you agree with it but the point is they've been sending agreement forms with no responses so i'm not sure who's managing this for you on your behalf or what the county is doing but i guess i've never received tell them that fully committed to to the department of education in our first testimony in two thousand and eleven when it was brought up when we were more than happy to do that yeah i remember that condition and very satisfied to appease that so i don't have any of the other people ask questions if they do they have at this point but i really want to concur with ms bice's comments in regards to the received a number of exemptions one of the exemptions was the water show me the water bill and the other exemption was a further review by d so i don't know how to interpret that other than to say you know they had a concern about the water pressure and i believe we address it in the proper way and i think it would be a mute point especially if a and b go through and it appears you've already started construction on their property and they're already in design for the water storage facility and we think that's the best way to get it mitigated now i did offer the other situation which i just explained that we'd be happy to do that too in the event that a m d elex not to go forward with their water storage facility and the water department is aware of the the other thing is i do have i'm fine i understand where he's coming from and this was a very very close vote last time and i made my decision as it was coming down the line we do need a lot of affordable housing i would like to give the guy one more chance but you know how many one more chances are we going to get this is only his first time so i'm i'm willing to consider this but i have a fear that he may you know if he has some issues with the conditions we put on there specially the any that might be a situation is trying to sell land i mean i think that happened before the condition was probably a little too expensive for him so it's my understanding that the land was for sale for a while  anymore i'm concerned about somebody selling the land and that it coming back in and asking for yet another extension that's i don't want to have happen i would love to see affordable housing built in that location or anywhere for that matter we just need to get the units built i feel the conditions we put on there were enough to handle the traffic situation and and some of the concerns that the that the committee had but you know they're not getting any cheaper so i am really caught between a rock and a hard spot on this one we do need the affordable housing i'm i'm leaning towards allowing for that to happen for the extension but i would like to figure out if there's something we can put in there  regarding the sale of the land if the lang gets sold i don't know if we can ask the department of corporation council there's some sort of language we put in there about you know if the language sold that's not since he signed it anyway so i think you chair i'm not sure if it's this extension is necessarily opening up all the conditions and allowing for the addition of new conditions or modifications i should say the rez all was worded as it was to open it up for this extension soul not sure how that would work but in the in the granting of the extension let's say can we you know put maybe some language that say we're not at least this council is not  happy with if they sell this we're not going to consider a nother extension because that my concern is somebody's going to sell it a year and a half in you know because you can't do it then they're going to say well you only get had it for six months so we need another extension and i don't want to keep this extending for years and years and years ago i think it i would almost read the resolution as it's written as i don't the keep coming back for extensions i think they extension was almost a one shot so i don't think you'd be needing further protection and not sure how it would work if the next council would be bound by the decision made today either yes it's interesting question but on and again there will be a committee report stating your concerns in the next body look if this were to come up because it would have to go to the department also the next body looking at it think is being said and what really pans out are two different things in the end jeff we're not here we're in i mean he's going to bring that point up again so i'd like to see it in black and white personally to really state it and perhaps that's something we in regards to the housing credits mister kim these can his credits because you know the project we approved yesterday anyone right is able to purchase i mean this the new project next door can whoever whatever is that what these credits these cre to be built then used for the affordable purpose prior to getting a credit once the credits issue yeah you're right it can be used then you know you have to look further into this on whether or not they would just be  water lateral agreement and that sort of gone away and he's looking to get that re approved of some sort and it was water pressure issues  there but now he's seen because next the kamani project we just approved yesterday will build this high storage tank that will send water down and he can work something out with them to assist in his water i guess pressure and whatever issue and this water department rio prove all is contingent on his new partners wanting to partner so i guess you're here to give the question project had an application that said they would build a tank and reroute some line in some way and that was approved and then as they got into construction things change i don't remember the details it was it was quite a few years ago what i can tell you is from our standpoint we we deal with engineering issues like piping after entitlements there's no reason a visit to one each application our department's position is if there's any issues with taping tank it's that kind of thing that can be dealt with in their building permit process time and we don't like to advise the council to to hold back on entitle ents for local localized engineering that can be solved with money we'll deal with out when their plans come in i can't promise what exactly will happen but it's certainly solvable by the applicant for enough money it's not it's not really an issue of the department's inability or and entitle me to issue but we would look at the application based on what they are what they say they can build versus what the local pressure needs are at the time of the application couple of things he has said or do reasons why he needs this time extension because he hasn't been able to care that much he needs funding which he has lined up and he says is contingent upon him receiving the entitlements because nobody have scheduled a meeting with the deputy director of the ws paul meyer for thursday september seventeenth regarding resubmission and re approval of our water lateral construction document he noted to securing the water for the project already approved for two two into what water lines in meters and subsequently we asked him questions and it seems like they've worked on a couple of things one of them being water pressure extension if this water plan is a problem we want to know because it's you know it could scuttle the whole project if we don't have the water of course so that's kind of what we're trying to find out unfortunately i'm not prepared with an answer for you today i can tell you that that area is has the a m b project it's got this project it's an area that is served directly off of our pipeline not off of a tank so it has water pressure problems remember in their first iteration there was a plan to make it all work i'm not sure if it was a cautionary issue i don't remember the details of it but it's not rocket science it can be made to work whether or not the different parties can come together if it's sharing thing it might be for example that we would give an approval but we can't commit to funding that hasn't yet been given by council by funding that many by another developer etc etc so i don't have the status on it right now for you today but again it can be made to work whether or not the parties will bring the resources is a different question york my main the brunt of my question is they build out they have housing credits we approve the project next door can that project purchase these class is agriculture the there is no agricultural land value and they're being taxed at the net taxable the market land value so i think they're paying their proper share of taxes  and i do have concern again the same concerns that this is going to get the funding isn't there i'd love to see that letter and i be will i'm willing to send this through provided we see the letter before reading so that's that's my initial take on this and i know mr cochran has a few more questions i do have a question slash comment with the the letter that was received with the department  housing human concerns there's no date on any of this the only date that i have is january twenty second or january nineteenth a theory this time stamp day i'm just i guess may want to ask that you be a little bit more careful as when you receive something even if it's in e mail because there's no data on this other than if you go down in there says i have a scheduled meeting on september seventeenth two thousand and fifteen so that i can at least see that issues from the department of education come or be transmitted to our office that needed to be addressed so i guess we have not received anything from them needing clarification to my knowledge ok thank you letter written to that department i did look up the h r s that she's looking at and the old you know it would be nice if we had the old binder material but was able to find at least the residue and the result does say that for every market priced unit that they sell that they'll pay their for the proper share of the  education impact fee is since it's supposed to be a hundred percent affordable there's no agreement yet until they i think they have like a ninety day yes they have a ninety day limit as to when to sell them to get the houses at least a group remit of sale and then after that the they can revert to market according to the old agreements that  correct thank you my understanding is once placed on the market the unit shall be offered for sale to households whose incomes fall between sixteen percent of the area median income for a minimum of three years after the three year  fordability period the units may be sold at market rates ok so if after three years yes then they don't have to deal they deal with the impact fees but according to this letter they're saying the deal you're saying there's no exemption for affordable units which seems shocks the heck out of me if they're not giving them sions for affordable units so i think that's another issue that that  we have to check i guess i'm sorry to bring him back down again but we need to check with him because now every unit is required to pay the educate school impact fee because of the new law one month before we passed that out of committee they can't went into effect one month before it passed out of committee so according to this they have to pay the school impact fee for every unit there which just throws it again way out of affordability mr coach thank you you see the letter from the state department of education and it says basically affordable housing projects are not exempt from school somebody did a calculation i heard it going around outside of the about three hundred thousand dollars as an extra three hundred thousand dollars on top of everything else you have to do i understand is that the like the straw that broke the camel recollect at the time in two thousand and eleven that there was no exemptions for the department of education fee i think at the time they quoted to be around two hundred thirty nine two hundred forty thousand dollars at the and i certainly want to do my part i was saying is that it would be helpful if i didn't have to pay for all of it if you re there's a goldfish i think we have enough disk i mean we have i have for me i have most of the information i need to support but i just wanted that one piece  right i prefer to defer and i mean if we don't want to cut it close on that final day i believe there's other i mean special meeting maybe or there's a another friday march fourth or something that's a possible date too but that's you know my preference so  taking his chair and thank you for taking it up today like i said it's a rock and a hard spot we do need affordable housing and this is the quickest way to get it done if you can get it done so i really implore him to get us a copy of that letter with a commitment letter for the financing otherwise i wouldn't be able to support or to counsel thank you for discussion i would really prefer that we tried to clarify all the missing pieces before asked to support this so i would prefer that we try to squeeze in an approval somewhere after we have an opportunity to hear from the folks that we want to hear from  first go around and i give you support on this go around i would prefer to defer there are questions i think you know rehashing the neighbor existing neighbors who were not in support of this infrastructure there isn't cannot hold up water department you know contested to that i mean the list goes on and then hearing the disturbing news from mr we hope that these credits can be sold to the neighbors and then there by they won't have to physically build affordable housing i mean the list goes on and i'm sure so i have my you know we down our throats this project back then forty five day clock harry harry harry build we need it now now now fast tracking and here we are extension on a fast track so i'm you know no i want to set this precedence for others and at this point if we're going to pull this vote i'm not in support so information things i wasn't around on the council during the time that was presented the first time and there are still some unclear questions that need to be answered at least in my mind  enter into a residential workforce housing agreement with the developer for the neighboring project i believe the first fees is one hundred something one seven hundred something hundred seventy her residential workforce housing units just for f y i that's their plan currently credits never came up in the discussion for satisfying their residential workforce housing requirements thank you mr olcott but they could in turn change essence so just that either but i would request that we have a list you know my concern is the letter if we have a list of what the concerns are that we can get those answered by the next meeting that would be nice well you know i pity i was pretty confident that we could have a meeting on your next meeting and on the twenty second and that we could hear it on the floor if we really wanted to so that gets it approved but if we are hearing that we might there is a possibility that we will meet a deadline and that scares the heck out of me because you know we are trying to get affordable housing built and if we missed that deadline what does that mean thank you i'm not willing to take that risk you know i really would like to have more information to make a decision but i'm not willing to take that risk so if we're going to move this out a committed today then it's going to have to be taken up unless we do so we don't have a whole lot of choices here chair you know like guzmn was in here five years ago but you know how it passed that's for those that are still here to explain that affordable homes so if there are a lot of questions that was not answered five years ago and and needs to be answered today and maybe that's what we need to do if the developer loses the option are the opportunity to or if we lose the opportunity to bill affordable homes well well so what else is new be proper so we can do for i think we can make it work but there is a possibility that we were the problems with  picture you know what i just what's holding me back is basically a question of whether the property the investor the jupiter holdings is investing in the development  they investing in the purchase of the property and when when mr couch is asking for certification or a letter of investment i wanted to see where exactly are they investing and that's pure and simple i'm in my mind you know what what is this actually leading to are we developing are we building new homes are we giving opportunity to sell at market price homes later down the road i don't know i want to get more information on the investor and that's where my holdup is and if that comes in a letter and first reading then i'm ok with that but that's my hol wanted the whole fast track your exemptions that come along with that and everything else under the sun now where are the bad guys not supporting affordable housing because what if it's not right on our this happen by the deadline i understand you need to lay out there's a risk and you can't promise anything it's like going in for surgery there's always a chance some complication can happen you know so you have to now but i'm not sure which way if if somebody else who considering not adopting today would make the motion i'd gladly seconded forward if we have a consensus