your honor peter jarvis for telling richard stone who is from the second row there five by the aisle this is an appeal from an order granting sanctions rule seven point one aide to local rules  district court in oregon requires certification in this case the parties made a good faith effort through person or teleport conferences to resolve the dispute or have been unable to do so my client mr stone before he filed task for not having conferred immediately before and she in her opinion clearly inserted the word immediately into the local rule which is not there and then found him to a file frivolous pleading for not having included that we're not talking here about the improper purpose branch frivolousness we're talking about the other branch the facts are included that there is no authority out of this district no published opinions anywhere no opinions on line that reached the conclusion that judge brown reached there none the other way either oh and by the conclusion please read that that the current for and conference excuse me had to be immediately before and in respect of the motion my that the whole i would agree with you first of all that if there were issues raised by the motion that had not been discussed clearly those would need to be discussed but that's not the fact here i would agree i would even agree with you for purposes of discussion certainly that that might be the better interpretation of the rules the question is whether having concluded otherwise in the absence of any published local authority  this is a sanctionable matter and there what the court said was she found that yes this is a matter of judicial notice that everybody would construe the rule that way but that's a matter of unpublished local lore if you correctly construed the rule he admitted that some judges construed it that way she never found to the contrary that there was in fact we never found and she never cited either an inner opinion any as i said online opinions dealing with this issue some get the implication is that some judges have construed it her way and other judges have not construed it her way she doesn't even say that she had clearly published opinions on very clearly warns that continuing to take a particular position would get the lawyer in trouble he did not admit he did not admit that he didn't look adequate he admitted he read the rule he did read the rule and on the face of the rule it doesn't say immediately before and perhaps because he practiced in other parts of the circuit where some voters are accepted are excluded from this kind of rule he figured that it was enough that he had conferred about the matter both before and after after the case was filed there's no question but that the other side would have conceded either of course but but that's better that's basically it the question it seems to me is even if one assumes that he was mistaken authority in order for it can be clear no but there is it has to be for example in this stringfellow case citing this court citing the second circuit has to be paid only clear that a claim has absolutely no chance of success under existing precedence and here among other things we don't have existing precedents but we have a local north and that is that it seems to me is is what this  about the other part of this of course your honor is that he had no motive or reason in the court cites none for him to do this if he had understood the rule to require and immediately and immediate i think that's the logic of requiring a specific conferral is different when the very position of the parties the very reason they're in court is proof enough that there's going to be no disagreement pointed out other courts other judges in this circuit in this district while not reaching the exact question here and there no other opinions from this district reached the exact question here that we've found take a more flexible approach to the rule as a general proposition yes beat as you have it either under the intermediate interlock to tory appeal or if you don't have it there the i can't bring the exact language to mind but as i write as i recall it everything except what was kept alive was was done there and the point of the fifty four b motion was insofar as this is i have nothing further thank you thank you for thank you