cool anyway it was so my experience in the governance and things generally been in non profits and smaller things or in the university system which is something entirely different but but what i wanted to point out because of some of the testimony this being given in front of here is you've heard down in council there's been some really mistaken information transfer there and we just to give one example the point that was made i think here one of my main things i want to point to i want to make today is done a lot of working to do good blog a look at the research that's been done most dialogues with government there around the country and this is how the county manager ideas come up because it's been increasing in popularity for the last almost a hundred years and so eighty one percent of jurisdictions now have some kind of professional manager or my chief administrative officer that you know with fairly rigorous qualifications that looks after things this was a report done this year by the i c m a which is the international city county managers association and it's the biggest association it extensive research is going to them and i believe you've been provided some information but just this group of us that has been looking at this have pulled together an awful lot of background information at the same i see is that having the professional county managers there really have a degree of being in charge more efficient more effective happier staff less turnover i think it to they can they can arrange things they can do all their deals with their buddies and whatever but a well run organization and whether it's a for profit corporation or a non thank you ok thank you very much like you writing thinking it's a big sign that you can have anything i can do to help your thinking of what i've written doesn't help through your shoulder that's why i have worked in an organization that was led by quality management and the transformation that i saw that occurred it was when was predicated on data teamwork the review of the annual play at the rewarding the celebration the whole thing can come together in a marvelous way that the just it touches people in their heart and that's what i see in my pi what maui county could have if it were two professional management assuming you hired the right person and he said what's the downside you hire the wrong manager but as long as you set it up you know what is the job description these are the job requirements you are well positioned to make incredible change you know i think maybe the best you c whole host of other people who are appointed by the mayor all go to the entire basically the entire management staff that at three or four different levels we all go now we all know all that i think you know when you have this anyone else have any questions could can be an overwhelming topic or can be a very simple topic fortunately there's another group that's going to examine it more sensibly so what i would suggest is reading some of the studies that have been presented to you during any of six hundred million dollars talk and sixty million dollars a year so when people talk about what's the cost of transition you know about a week or so it's insane to think about first the long term in this every year year after year central savings to do the math will be important here is that the council would have the right to the vote for somebody new by the majority vote whether it's five or six running away corporate council says and replace that he tried but without cause so somebody jobs that other and lives and to take this on is really the story and i'm very very grateful to you on this is going to be a very important task and initiative basically for them to help them make decisions that will benefit this community and i think i just want to mention that perhaps you'll remember when the mayor testified before you last two months ago that he came up with a number for the cost accounting manager for the size of this community and i'm sure you perhaps have done some research since then but that number was  thousand is about one hundred forty two thousand dollars so i just want to inform you of that and thank you very much again i'm really going great with you the expertise that's around this table and your g and emails and reports and i believe everybody got those right you see anything that listed here that you did not receive just let us know did everybody get a chance to look at them commission to separate out and then have someone or at least into a management form rather than just trying to go one at a time there's a lot of data and here perhaps we could separate it out and meet and  provide insight into and so that's what i want to do once we get to once we get to the annual reports section today this information that i found it all to be very helpful and it did it actually did for me and it has some of the areas that i have been appointed by the mayor and county council members on this very important commission and i look forward to working with everyone here and all the testimony and hopefully make a positive contribution to all that through this process looking at various ways that other communities have just taken politics out of a lot of the you know a lot of the appointments of discussion because that's me is the way we we start responsibilities are not exactly sure but they didn't have mayors initially by the council as to whether it goes on the ballot and we have to have a majority of a majority of the council or six members of both to get on the ballot that's not an easy bar to to get over search firm presumes to a community group of community citizens that has it has some experience in making decisions about sort and then two or three names will be presented the council for their consideration that way if my brother in law wants a job and one council chair he's going to have to go through all the hoops and get selected by looking at it from my perspective i think there is there is a question of what are we going to have to pay not just be the county manager but what will we have to pay somebody who will be the budget we tweak it may be by about three to five percent or so there really is a lot more agreement shredded by the a goodish ration because we and they're often right something doesn't make sense and so we back off something they presented to us you know may not make sense to some of us so it's  give and take i think it's i don't think it would we need less of a give and take with a country manager because i think we would we would look to that person to provide the same kind of guidance of those currently provided by the mayor  the effectiveness of that program and what it actually did and did it make an impact on a community for example three families of child programs they were geared to more into the inquiring citizen is where does the buck stop and what is there on the impact that we're going to be able to if the manager comes in and as requested areas you guys are looking at is there actually somebody that's going to come in and say and have them in a jury of expertise to do those kinds of reviews on a ongoing regular basis as a team is doing that i think you it would be a very different outcome from those grants are much more complex in the in the deal ones but nevertheless i think that if we had somebody who was a professional in that in that department those reviews could happen not say they would but i think having a professional manager hired made so part of that problem what you're saying tina's already f a a doing that as a professional wire because when my guests leave property i know what they're going to be reasonably well received and that's because the hotels provide enough taxation  we're able to provide all kinds of services to make this make it clear that we're a kinder and more supportive community so from that standpoint i'm i'm comfortable with that policy so ts appropriated there are times when individual groups will come and ask specifically for for money sometimes those line items or fact most of the couple a couple of them you know we put in if the if a group comes and says this is what we can do for this money but once we appropriate the money the real control is in the administration's hands because they do the contract and do big big breath the grand request has always comforted by an agreement as to what they're going to provide and then the administration also follows through and make sure that they're following up responsibility is from day one and we have and have fewer people who are learning on the job as opposed to coming in knowing what that job is and getting to work  i felt like this is just the best things ever happen to me so he came in and sat in on our meetings but it's it strikes me that when there's a turnover in the administration there's no turnover in this guy's position so these folks who are in my mind qualified to do the job at the same time some probably would have a hard time getting through the hoops that my feet are established through to make sure we're getting the right person in the right job yeah commission what's the report card to say you're being effective in your leadership position versus mayor wage you know for all intents and purposes has to interview for their job every four could be a part of that equation but i think of some report card that would need to get developed based on benchmarking and that's where i see you guys having a really important role and spend in that year over and above what we spent in two thousand and thirteen is equal to all the taxes generated by all of the loop all of  cost of government is huge i'm concerned because i don't feel and this is not just my we count all the counties feel that we have a structural challenge with really focusing on trying to control costs and you can you can say in some cases i've heard it said by many others if we didn't have elected officials important to have a good reading process right so you see as much as humanly possible procedure we can get as good a version as you can because you're right if you get it you are somebody you know a five year contract and you decide you don't like it you know ther you know a cultural challenge to the challenge of having people relocate to a place are not familiar with and be faced with things that they never imagined and decide the same for them got to be on the resolution for the special committee must wonder if there is any language in there that explicitly would frame the way in which our two bodies would interact one with another mostly because i want to be sure that we're making use of each other's work as much as possible whether it be something as explicit as seeing that in the first meeting there would be a clear delineation of tasks it doesn't have to be that explicit but that there are some language in the resolution that would benefit maybe maybe that's not true at all maybe that would occur in the two years between the vote in the oval station brings up a good point because i think there will be a whole lot more deliberate committee policy statement like that committee exactly is going to delve into and how that would be helpful for our side and so that way we can spread out the responsibilities because we're going to have to do that to some degree anyway we can and it's going to and so person asked us on the board of supervisors and and has actually worked with in a county manager arrangement and then they last that you would look at it but it's to give a suggestion mostly there for you to look at how much work it may be to look at these kinds of things so we'll get into this this is modified slightly from the version that i set out to everyone last week i will get to make sure that we cover everything or at least cover those things that we feel are important that are within our school which is efficiency and cost so the first one is looking at professionalism it's a common topic that you'll hear over and over again the idea that a county manager would be more professional than an elect official we'd have to look down at the charter specifications for what it is because i see what the professionalise whatever the charter says is professional so in that case we'd look at the charter specifications for what those kinds of things are the idea  that's the exact composition but a county manager would be more professional about the person that comes in as a county manager would have better qualifications is another way of saying it then an elected official or and this has to be take into account as well the idea that we currently do have test it's one that i find to sleep a little bit difficult i've looked at some previous testimonies for counties that have gone through exact question before hand i found one in particular for park county which is in washington and went through this process commission or form to a concert manager to look at that idea as well i will said the leaks are included in the document so you can take a look at those as well turnover is a common one is well so the benefits or negative effects that interviews are completed with people who go through the transition there are civil service positions and individuals in different departments that have had to through this transition and i would be very important to this  so finding out who those people are and trying to understand ok our department heads are going to change every forty years they know that what do they do how do they get through it what effect does that have on them people who are out there for twenty years a number for i have here better provision of service to the idea that a county manager professional would be able to better provide services what those services are pretty straightforward one one that o i think that you know the jumping out of me it's been these benchmarks studies as be critical to comparing counties very very difficult incredibly the basic level below states but smaller units and cities municipalities can essentially say i don't like all the county runs things we want to take some of those service responsibilities on our own we're going to create our own local governments with our own towns municipalities townships cities that have taken responsibilities away from the county and started to do it themselves which are not incorporated into that county's budget so essentially what we do this kind of analysis we'd have to verify that whatever we're comparing against has comparable services or service needs as those here and understand any of the inefficiency or efficiency of mali by comparing it to some other county is in and of itself a very very difficult and labor intensive thing to do it is it i have less reservations about using county was spending ten times more than a similar county so that kind of deviation is significant you know on it on a specific area and so i say i'm thinking you know maui is unique and we are going to see the just the deviation is so dramatic and it's worthwhile and it will highlight areas where you know there you know it looks like there is a lot of room for improvement here and so it just gives you a focus think we all understand that's going to show it should be there but i think we'll still it'll still we'll still see areas for you this is this is not a factor of uniqueness you know that we're spending this much in this specific area compared to you from the county auditor because some of them are behind pay walls academic literature cost money to access but to rely on those things those days are these take them into account and to understand that they do try to cut out some of those those problems that i've mentioned before they do that by focusing on provision of service specific three provisions of service being all fire police and solid waste management which tend to take up the bulk of most roads w office of the mayor because there are some functions in the mayor's office that would have to be retained through them but it would be something out there that there would be some difference understanding what that difference was we had asked already we shouldn't stop there we should also ask others to do what they think are the functions of the mayor's office or executive positions currently would need to be repaid and from there we can dangle would see how much fewer positions with do things like accountability and represent our representation though it's something that we have looked out on the idea of checks and balances which was mentioned before and finally the how much  come up with this with this we go i think the important thing is to just to just be focused and it is you know few specific areas so from what we have here we get these six six areas are jumping out of the body as they want to they want to go after them or they think they're you know it should definitely be in the works for the kind of threw me again to begin with we talked about it would help me to have some time to think about it i don't know about the r is the other thing is to we also are going to have to determine when we look at the scope of work the amount of time it's going to take for each area that we're looking at because some of these are some of these are substantial time besides so i'll just put it that way i'd be happy to take that i'd be happy to do that myself i mean there is i won't be able to get through every day to i'm sure this is what i need from from you and this would be the same whether somebody takes any task is a level of scrutiny that i mean they're you know we're their body that should be able to within ourselves really scrutinize the kinds of things that we're saying to each other easily under that mission statement if we read what we wanted to accomplish and that's the account whatever the topics most affected should be the ones that we i think it should be like in this case top down instead of bottom out you know this is something that we should think about we should be choosing a topic that we feel comfortable doing i think that if any of us thirty of us feel that there is one of these topics that are of interest that we feel that we one more time and just get a sense from everybody if there are topics that nobody wants to do or if there are topics that several people want to get into but i don't but you know the first two i have a hunch that this is they're not going to be popular but i might be wrong county decides to do it you know then the transition and you know and that would also have that including the the bonds and all that so but you also i think he should he should be called leaderboard clear concise measurable goals and they're not going to be black and white you know lead into each other to some degree i think that a lot of the topics that we choose not to are the very kind of topics that we can discuss with the special committee continues to be a resource so if there's any questions that would be house towards him from d c to that he'd be more there to be sure that as long as we're willing to share any information or have a manageable record of what's going on and also just keep in mind here role as commissioners and the representation that you're meeting when you are putting something in writing or speaking  someone in the administration or see you discuss certain things here but keep in mind that you can represent what was discussed that commission level but if you have your own particular opinions about catch up as much as possible next meeting is december already so it would be it would be nice to at the next meeting be able to start to shape the final report so that when we leave we have an idea of what the report severally kind of musses everything out when we're getting finalizing the report and then somebody comes in with oh we need to include these four endings from this you know pain in so we just need to be real diligent this month and then we can give permission to use it as a poor we can be licensed licensees or something just so they have it to all look at it we can you know i think we can conclude it will be in both cases we need to be careful the extent to which we put it put the information into our reviewed it goes through a an enormous reading process they are the most objective and you can actually look at their methodology and replicate it if you need to i see it as being a good source of information to know who article there would be hundreds of them absolutely hundreds of the two of them that i picked out were ones because they were very very specific to some of the topics that we had discussed last piece and why it patrols in the model in the issues i describe media or to our report but the issues are these other the ancillary things but the advantage we have is that you know paul is able to read them and you know with credentials he has through the work so it's not a reading that that you guys would do on those kinds of jokes but certainly i hope i'm going to share everything with you that i can share with you know still it's whether you take a look at it i need your feedback on that as well you know i think that's so paul brought this this is the last meeting the two articles he thinks would be really good fishel to report i don't know if he still feels that way i do so in the choice we have is do we get them both or ninety box because it's not a huge cost thing but one of them we can not be necessarily i think it's easier to help people make their point if we have a testimony of them it is there is a mayor or a chair wired or someone of more substance and that's a different issue so that was one thing i wanted to discuss and the second thing is not to do it and more as one discussion items that are on the agenda and the reason why is because it's the rest of us don't have knowledge of what's going to be talked about thanks in meeting less effective so we're missed because i was busy last month but in the future i would greatly appreciated if whatever is going to be on the agenda be presented to us and  where for me i know that it's effective to make a point in fifteen or twenty minutes or you start losing the drift of what the person came to say to get a very good a very we can be very much more specific well that's been an issue since i've been on this commission is that people will come and then they'll start passing out claims that we're supposed to read i guess while we're talking i don't know but if we can get those materials then i think that one greatly make us a much more group did over the course of the month and have a productive month to its members so hopefully we can keep that level of productivity it will be it's this way but this is this is kind of the experiment this year to see it to see if it will work i think it will it's