comments questions from the public not related to the agenda anybody have any comments or questions that lead to the agenda during none announcements there are none misplaced application m s eighteen zero six  champlain school apartments partnership for ultimate compliance with the end multi use district building envelope standards missions section eight point zero six age forty twenty thousand two hundred square foot one hundred room five story hotel building a ten sixty it will soon road who was here for the  or is that true you can still see the video screen here on behalf of the evening so we are here tonight to seek the board your view of our proposed use of the alternate entry standard in the t four district for proposed building on the site doors i thought i'd give a quick presentation just to you know one minute overview of the project so you could understand context of what's proposed and get a sense of what the project  so brought it here on screen the over an overall concept plan that we've been working with the project itself is the existing hollowly insight and it's a fourteen off of williston road so the existing holiday inn building is roughly in this large gray l a area where you see in there is an existing addition and a conference center restaurant that's there now this site is in the t for district where there is a proposed city street i don't know if you can see my pointer moving here but there a proposed city plan city street that comes into the site approximately where they just in driveways and heads east to the properties that are on the north side of williston road as part of the project it's proposed that the applicant would would build part of that road the part that more or less the lines of the entry drive and then progress from there could be made on the adjacent properties that aren't owned by the applicant but that this would at least set up these properties for continued development of that city street project itself as a whole involves renovation of the just the holiday inn building that remove the old conference center and restaurant and put a new end cap on the building with  a port to share or tell rooms above there would be a plaza space located to the east of the building that would serve as open space on the form base code district and then in the front of the site adjacent to almost a road there would be a proposed one hundred room hampton inn  five story building with a six story roof top bar deck that would be located along the ramp and williston wrote and would be adjacent to this proposed city street so that would be meeting the bill two requirements of that  interrupted by proposed landscaping and plantings so the building itself is all one use one of the things that is interesting about it is it gives energy to this corner of this gateway area into the t four and into this proposed to the street so we are excited about locating this building here because it is a hotel and because the hilton brand itself has certain requirements for how folks access their building access to their hotels is important to them its import of the brand and so there are some challenges with the foreign base code as to balancing the hotels needs with the public interest standard of the form they scope so that's why we're here tonight is to try to get a read from the board on our use of alternate entry standard and that will feed into our administrative application which we plan to submit in the next couple days so that's an overview of the project i think here from here alternative ralph we can go into the doors and the building in more detail did you have a chance to read through the staff com go i think this walk through it first to kind of explain what the whole gist and direction is of this this entire corner and then let's talk about specifically about the entrances and how that relates to the hotel use in particular and then i think to wrap it all up if we do the movie i think that'll kind of pull it all together and give you a really good sense of what's going on with the site right now as you know it's a holiday  looking for is in energizing new urban node that basically anchors this corner that's on this really very high density interchange with a lot of visual access maybe not you physical access i think is what's talked about in your regulations but here we're really predominate talking about visual access from the interstate in this people drive by it that's a very important criteria i think that the duality of the two hotels is going to do a lot here and really dense is makes the site very dense to where it does have a nice urban character it's going to be a perfect i think solution to what i think that the city is looking for to anchor this corner and what we've come up with is really out of vernacular language where we've got really trying to address that kind of a cityscape look so it's not a replication of typical corporate pieces but  morven urbin organic mixtures so that they are related they look like they're within the same family but they definitely look like different buildings and components that really create that richness of that urban fabric that i think you're trying to look for what's what's going to happen here is even though wilton road is the primary thoroughfare this is new street we'll call it i guess dorset street extension for now that that comes across that's really what we're looking at is the primary facade for this hampton inn and even then i think the primary focus point is actually the that interchange between the hampton inn the holiday inn bridge basically take a left then as you come into the site we're focusing everything in we're on to that so it's very pedestrian oriented and scaled to has some good visual access and right there where you come in and you take  left at the at the corner between the two hotels that's an important note in that that probably right now the pedestrian streetscape on the other side that's probably going to get more to define by  b but we're dealing right now with the architecture and how to really focus on that streets that dorset street extension and so we really took a look very hard look at your your guidelines and  and what the intent was really behind what you're trying to achieve with engaging the pedestrians and and trying to get them to walk the entire building in the site and to really get it to engage and so we looked at really doing that on that that normally would be only one access from enter the lobby to that point but we've increased that so we've got two and we've actually got a third major access point that really draws you in there which is actually the port  those two buildings come together i think a lot of the discussion here in the review has been on the street side where the meeting rooms are and we've added another entrance in the middle and those are limited in trances they are definitely open to the public but it's really it's a hotel so one of the hotel criteria especially here in the last few years is that there has to be visual control and access for security reasons this really started several years ago with the erin andrews situation and then if you watch the news here in the last day or two there's there's more of that so it's not going away  one of the key aspects is to have visual control from the front desk to see who's coming into the space these entrances on in particular would be accessible to hotel guests with a card key access anyone that accompanies that guest would have access there and if there is an embed going on there like a meeting or a meeting or a specialized gathering the doors would be open for that so then anyone could get in you don't even need a card because they know there's a lot of people coming and going but one of the things the hotel the hilton in particular would be concerned about is if that was open all the times that guests can come in the back  so i think that probably addresses that point especially since the intent of the guidelines is to engage pedestrians so that they walk around the entire building but we're not that's not going to be conducive to continue going so there's already a natural barrier there so i think what this does with the meeting rooms it really draws people in on a more of a demand basis rather than just seeing it and wanting to go there but yet it is accessible and has that visual access i think is so important that you feel like you can go in as a hint of what's going on down on the dorset street extension side i think the other thing that kind of  into this is that your regulations really deal with trying to engage the desperate to get them to come into a site but because this is a hotel it actually has a reverse effect we're actually contributing that pedestrians so we're giving people there's going to be one hundred hundred fifty people staying here every night that are coming here parking staying in the room they're the ones that are going to be emanating from the building and engaging in the streets so it's not a matter of drawing people and we're actually the contributors to that to that streetscape which i think is a really important point to make for this kind of a node i think we will look at this to try to how do we mean the spirit and intent of the  guidelines because i know what you're trying to achieve but i'm sure he didn't have this building in mind when you wrote the regulations so we're looking at what's the best here because we want to be part of that and we think it's a good solution and i think we've hit on a number of points here that i hope address what you what you're looking for that's basically it in a nutshell so right now what i've got to kind of show you how we driving by it someplace you want to go there and this is going down the dorset street extension again a lot of glass and then a big punch of glass what we have visual access in the lobby the outside really festive atmosphere in a big poor old to draw you in pedestrian to drop in and then of course the cars come on the other side so we separate that conflict so that you have both events happening right there to energize that one are really excited about this this building sometimes they come together well better than other buildings this one i think really jelled and i really would like to see this in three d visual three so if you have any questions at this point are parking for the hamptons underground yes it is there is a parking level underground it's five stories one level of parking underground  talk about of the front that's card reader only if somebody came up during the and did not have a card are they is there a buzzer to be able to say hey i'm here let me in now you would naturally go around to that's why we tried to put somebody in this is on that intersection that node in draws you in and just like if you were going to an event if you go to a seminar or something i get it but but the the the we're talking about very little money so there are specific requirements for buildings within the teeth for to have a certain number of entrances per hour length of building face and then a maximum spacing of those and insist there is a this list of criteria that are outlined in the staff notes most of them focused on meeting the purposes of the transit zone in a manner greater to or equal than the standards in other slightly lower standard than public entrance so what they would be required to have is the four doors on the new street and one on the south wilson road facade would they have his two doors on the new street and it sounds like from what ralph is saying that they're not actually going to have one on the south facade so i had understood that you know we do have one but not a public interest the public entrance has to be open to the public during your hours of operation you have an entrance ok to be looked at that is being a just as you described it because when there's an event going on there it's going to be always open not always knew the hotel is open right so that general public just like every just or is closed it's not going to be right but then that's when it starts closed when the hotel is open during regular business hours when there's non event at or would not be open right but see the hotel is like four or five buildings in one it's an apartment it's a restaurant it's meeting space it's not a tory and it's an exercise facility and all of those aren't necessarily active and open all the time so it's just like this is a part of a retail's it's like if this was a retail store and it's only open from eight to five in that time it would be open so when the meetings are engaged it would be open so people can come and go there'd be other security barriers on the inside to keep people from going to have a card key access from inside the building to get up to the guest rooms for example and you've seen those before like even in elevators that we needed to swipe something so as long as those spaces are engaged in active it would be open so we looked at that a little bit differently because there are so many different uses in the hotel and hotels kind of a different animal compared to like just a regular store or business or something like that but we're open to your interpreter interpretation and open to what does solve it for you to ask the question is does the word communication in that area mean like a buzzer or intercom or does it mean it's an architectural term like it opens up to does that mean like electronic communication or  pouring out i don't want to walk all around the building can you please let me in we would consider that an operable entrance mr larkin would you like to give testimony i would like to say is i'm hoping from this meeting to have a good direction a clear direction that you know solves that the challenge that we have tonight so thanks so the way i see your little table right there on the  that that facade is actually at the terminus of this area so it's not like in the middle of this in gauging street kid streetscape that he doesn't necessarily encourage walking around the building because there's no reason to walk around the building here so  three d any proposed alternative shall be incorporated along all facades of a building for which alternate compliance is being sought and shall be distributed along the entire facade in a ma which meets or exceeds the average frequency and maximum spatially as required by the b he is here i guess with the sixty seven if you put the chart back up you know you are sixty seven feet which i guess i within the allowable spacing but you're going from four doors a minimal new street to two crates of the this standard is to allow them to vary from that but if they incorporate the proposed alternative which is as described there seven and a half a high windows repeated materials lighting scones surface materials and surrounding walkways if they repeat those alternatives around the entire building they have the ability the board has the ability to waive the frequency and spacing standards it's not how i see it i'm reading d what does the second half of the me one of the things we have to consider is whether any physical access but we need visual access because we need to engage that that perception of people driving by that there is something that's going on here to engage them to come in and interact with the site and that's how that's how we looked at it and so we went the extra mile to increase the amount of glazing we got like between forty and fifty percent may can make them larger more canopies more awnings more of these architectural elements that really identify with the scaling elements you think it needs to happen we'll figure out to make way to do it i think is a stretch to read it as you do it seems to me to be plainly talking about something physical not just visual right because i think it talks about a building that's not located here that's in a different area that's why i think it's it's the intent of the code was not written with this building in mind and when you look at this on a major interchange of a highway it kind of changes things a little bit and especially that it is the way it was intended to be interpreted whether the language is poor i don't disagree with you but the way he is reading it as the alternative being the architectural features is intended is mark is saying i think i heard him say it here too well that what he wants is a more fully engage south entrance and i absolutely agree with and i'm looking at standard two hundred each now it is the intent i mean you know broadly speaking in the broadest possible terms and not picking nits all over iraq is concerned is to make sure that any alternative we approve is consistent with it with the intent of the general design standards here we have a statement that i think negates your visual your visual argument it is the intent of the section in concert with other standard a section eight point one three to establish a regular consistently put destry unfriendly environment in the applicable district the presence of regular is designed to foster a built pattern consisting of attractive engaging and interactive built forms keyword being operable manas point that is if you know basically it's a club entrance selective is not that so again underscoring my concurrence with mark's broad point about making the south entrance a bona fide public interests in the in the most conventional sense so it can't be pub it can't it has to be a key club kind of entrance it has to be restricted entrance i don't if i'm going to a hotel i don't want just anybody walking off the street as not going to happen and it i mean i've i'm a little worried about even having a buzzer because you know you walk up you look fine yeah i'm busy at the thing i'm trying to take care of you know you look ok i'll let you hand depends what you're walking into it depends what's on the other side of the door if there's no conference going on somebody walks in and it's bad weather they say can you please let me and i don't want to walk around all the way and that's cart horse you're redesign the interior so that going through that public entrance doesn't produce that got designed now i like a lot because there's a lot of glazing that leads into the restaurant on the new street side and to have to make a hallway that is just for i mean it's becoming a much bigger thing than just a vesti buzzer only because they want to change the state so we have the authority to say this is fine this is creating a a pedestrian friendly environment regular consistently protesting f environment and in the district we have the authority to say that these standards for review are met and that therefore i mean frankly we could be fined with just a key card entrance without a  requires public entrances the only reason the whole business about operable entrances came up is because it was mentioned in a sort of a squishy soft statement in part two three point zero six each so i only explained that assume that your your that that hampton wants it held over there if it was on the street side you would then have the lobby right behind the porte cochre and the front and the front wouldn't be a big problem but now if you put it on the street side you've got a bigger problem you've got a smaller window to be able to build in it's not going to work as well you're going to have traffic problems arche and parking you're going to have all sorts of issues that they've they've solved the problem they've done this well they've the issue is can we can we find a way in the regs to make this all work for them first are you draw your thank you right i had the definition of operable engines pointed out to me it's much  er than i was reading it i would draw that particular four entrances it's one of the one of those doesn't count because on a public street right yeah so there's there's lots of public access here it's just a question of can we do a buzzer or something similar on the south face so they can maintain security internal i think that might be a viable solution is to make that an entrance public entrance to  best to be a lower large holding area that then can have some artwork or can be basically a pretty it's basically kind of be a pretty functional space for the meeting rooms and then to that space that access from there to the hotel that the control we have to move the control points further inside but it does then solve your your objective that getting people into the space off the streets reticent on this project is not because i think it's a bad design or doesn't look good or may not in fact serve all the purposes you're talking about when i'm really mostly concerned about here is i don't think we've ever been has to interpret you know somebody comes in the coming with a plausible argument and the gut feeling is what the heck rather than anybody actually looking at objective standards in making to the terminations here we have a set of standards that appear to be objective before we bless what you want to do i think we should be looking one by one at the of chapters so that we are not district this is the first one that's come to the board for alternative entrants into it which means six out of seven have found a way to do it so i would be reluctant to say because of safety because of you know concerns about people entering because that's the same argument that all the other sticks and have made marry the big box stores i think are your biggest issue because that's a solid box perimeter that doesn't engage the streetscape so i could see how they would really have a problem with a point to clarify that would be that we're not we may not necessarily be seeking to use the alternative standard for safety alone we're offering a streetscape inviting streetscape right over them in the building as a base we're trying to standard redistrict we redistribute the requirements so maybe try to do something that makes all the architectural commercial sense in the world i don't mean to denigrate that mo what i'm saying is from the standpoint of the way this board operates what we should be doing is saying to you please explain to us how one by one your alternative me equal to or greater than the standard contained within the b s so that i've accepted the objectives of the central district of the comprehensive plan and identified that stuff considers that so so but you can follow along right where marlo was just pointing out the objectives the specific objects of the subtle dislike of the comprehensive plan are numbered there forty one through forty seven and she notes that specifically forty one forty two and forty six are met by the proposed plan it but it's but but but it's a comparative standard  so that's a stretch up to the board to decide whether it exceeds all of the standards are in a manner equal to or greater than may be taken as a whole the board can form its judgement on that point but what is what exceeds the demand for the poles and times of parking it's that the overall project exceeds the goals of minimizing overall demand for parking of the entrance that we're talking right so having as mark mentioned south facing entrance that allows people to go out to the planned wellston road streets guess so to me that was a little weak what about b theirs equal to or greater than the standard containment vs for the purpose of the transit zone is generally in multi use mixed use dense downtown built environment typical of areas adjacent to in support of main streets housing  commercial uses parking facilities are allowed the built environment can be a mix of free standing and shared well buildings multi modal or until an emphasis on medium foot traffic pedestrianism parking shall be hidden away from the street and again back to john's point if we had pork to share on the south side we'd be having parking and entrance and it wouldn't be as pretty i mean i mean once they get done designing the south side entrance is going to be a whole lot prettier than a driveway you know going through that so walk in my view this exceeds the standards in that they could turn that driveway into a public street which i assume has a problem because there was i think you probably were already we've done it but if if if they had the easement size this this project would be under control you'd have to have your you have all yours all your doors you'd have four doors but it's by side so you'd still have the problem with the primary you'd still have to put this south door right in the primary facade is there proposing to and it would have had t noticed how that affects the maximum or the average distance between the entrances i don't consider that the end of the inquiry but i guess what i'm getting to is that we're trying to create something that kind of looks like a public entrance but it's really not a public entrance and i'm wondering whether it's even worth trying what do we gain by making at this semipublic entrance that has to be then policed by the hotel at some point in the interior of the building where you again with mark was talking i mean it's a valid point you know you come out the south side so you can engage with doors and street but people can come out the south side without people being able to get in the south side so easily i thought we were talking about as them being able to get into the the south entrance and then encounter security further in the building and i don't know really what have buys you because you can still have eagerness even if the security is right at the entrance but buys you a little more weather protection but it also buys you the chance the people who aren't supposed to be there are a vailing themselves of their protection so i think mark's point was speak up mark if i well not if when i get this wrong mark's point was  that it's you gain a more visually appealing access point and i think i think mark's point was that it's the visual appeal that he would like to see improved to be able to kind of control that as well so we'll have to if we do increase the number of entrances we're going to have to make sure that we also spend some time on thinking about that so one of the things we liked about the current design is that everybody passed through the lobby and that provided some level of spot checking if you will and making sure that it we don't we have one point of access so this would create a design challenge one that will have to think through  was what if you had a dedicated elevator from that entrance that only stopped at the rooftop bar they don't know where that is against hit the nail on the head right there that's the that's the key because what you don't want to someone coming off the street and ending up on the guest room floor without having gone by the front desk that's when the problem that's where the problem started and sure we can solve this and get you that visual prominence on that side that you're looking for and stuff the security issue is not going to be a nice solution but they've been more difficult problems to solve here's in that so that's thinking of our problems i think will be all right i have a rather poor very parochial admittedly narrow point be easy on loading point and the access point that doesn't require steps makes it possible for your entertainers to get in so i agree with all that much to my only hang up with any of this is just hours of operation if we have to match the hotel hours of operation to meet the public man entrance point that's where we keep getting hung up when we when we read through it so we agree with all the items we want the guest to come and go with ease we want  points but i but prefer an expediency standpoint to to come to a resolution on what the specific criteria are so that we can then have a more streamlined approval process of that if it clearly falls within that if there's still some question then i could see coming back to the full board that if you're ok with that you do have to come back to the board regardless if it's a continued hearing gets in front of the board and the board has to approve something specific so they close the hearing they can't take any new evidence so if the read from the board is that they wouldn't approve it as designed then it's to your advantage to continue and come back so if we make that entrance on the south side a what you call a public entrance it's open all the time to a contained space like that pretty functional room that would solve the criteria think once that becomes a public door and that kind of comes along with it from the function standpoint because we would want that then it just stopped just creates insecurity issues but i think what you're looking for for that to be a public entrance if we can agree to that and then along with that we've got to make a beginning approach or other to jump in with a hypothetical just so i can have a takeaway as we discuss one of the earlier look layouts we had we had a cafe on the  corner and that cafe would be its own standalone entity it became a little bit of a challenge for layout but let's say it wasn't that cap it would have business operating hours of its own it would have its own public access for certain hours of the day but it wouldn't match the hotel use this is one of the challenges of a mixed use concept you know so i would i would pose a hypothetical what if that was a cafe that would inform sort of my design and sort of what we would take away if that was a stand alone operating cafe that sat in that meeting room as some solutions but it creates other problems and so i just i would love to hear the feedback or maybe not tonight but those are the things that were true working through if they're not there so solving for that that wouldn't solve for the listener what they get to come out and get to wilson ro but in that case getting it would only be between eight and five so that does as you say as you're inferring it does change the rules a bit because and then it's a mixed use building and has to tenants and those tenants each are considered separately  so the cafe door would be open during cafe hours and the hotel there would be doing during hotel hours so it sort of it changes the rules on what we're talking about if there's two different uses of there are still going to be two with their van need to be true doors on the south one for the hotel but to the point of the hypothetical question i'm looking at the definition of public interests and it says it needs to be open during business hours it doesn't say the business hours of the primary business site so the way i read that is yes you could have different operating hours for that entrance than you do for the entrances on the east side of the building that's my interpretation and even interpret it the same i soften it up in the same way that it lists going to be the goal of the hotel as well that when there are seminars functions meetings and events going on the spaces the door would be open because otherwise it becomes really problematic just to use ability stand so i think that if that's  go to the top and then the restaurant has its own security issues to solve if this hearing is continued may i suggest that the poor delivery a little bit between this hearing in the want to discuss it outside of this hearing is you've i'm sure you all have been to different seminars and events at hotels when you know there's an event at the marriott you go to the lobby because you don't know where it is so that's how people get into it that those spaces are only active when there are immense going on and you shall be able to get into them when they're not events doors are locked to the meeting rooms so if you put a door but a double door between the elevator lobby in the food prep i'm sorry it was not obvious i guess she'd have to go down gives it up a little bit the see that elevator lobby right there and there's as there's opening just the left of the cursor between it in the meeting room with the if if right there if you put a doorway there and closed it off you're if you can open it for your meeting room now you know you would have segmented that section of of the building off and now it could have it's on ours right yes sorry there's too many fronts the south side of the building but if but i think they have the right to change to to set hours for their meeting of spaces and were agreeable to that i had to make that a public open entrance especially during the daylight hours you're going to like buzz i mean you don't mean but or have a vestibule our have a closed off area a finite area that you can get into before you have to use a card key or a buzzer that's probably where the so that common ground i think is from the hotel security standpoint and to meet the criteria that you're looking for for the letter of that criteria i think that's that's solved that the way it's presented right there just from an operational standpoint and then it behooves us as a natural extension of that to make that entrance more prominent anyway as an but some kind of an architectural feature of an awning or some kind approval but i think this is this issue is worth a lot of fuss because i'd be surprised if everybody here doesn't agree with me that this is really nice project and have a wonderful redevelopment project for the space and  was you talk about the tower element at the interior intersection and that's why we did that at the interior intersection so it does step down towards the streetscape but what we want to do is really create that urban know deep they haven't submitted there's a plan up location so we haven't looked at that detail our read initially is that this does meet the standard whether if they chose to step it back we'd have to look at whether it  we're walking through so can we get to perhaps knocking softly more quickly right so we talked about the intent it needs it needs the alternative design needs to meet or exceed the intent the intent is to have like more doorways all the way around the building which i think would be bad because you have on the freeway side yeah  so if people disagree with with my disagree with frank that's fine but if it's average it's average frequency and maximum space average frequency so in other words you could have more on one side less on element that means if it's otherwise required if somebody says i meet the bare minimum right please give me an alternative entrance we were just you know supposed to do it those and that we do in fact meteoric seed exceed by a lot is what i think the standards acquired probably mean once he makes those little judgments exactly exactly what we're looking at a continued did so just to make sure we're all so that melvin peter and joe walk out the back nobody has any concerns about the primary facade on the new street and tiny subdivision sketch so we can jam in there a few want to do something fun at the beginning yeah can we can we move the market street subdivision to the item that is in was some stuff coming to me originally scheduled hearing that pertained to basically what this project created and terms of develop a plan and the applicant has looked into that us through this or we can go by memory what does what is the board's pleasure i remember you're good with memory where to go frank john that jennifer and mark yep yep good with memory and we've done this already exactly right so why don't we just quickly step through what the wetlands adjustments was because i think that's the so we have done line was right now as you can see it's like a flag at the end and the close to children road before it was a straight line that we go across the driveway and the concern previous site plan approvals approved or lease utilize some of the existing trees on the site as part of their landscaping requirements and is probably on the order of fifty or more mature trees on the site not the purpose of the picture i gave you said and as you recall we're talking about building the back you can't see back there and so right now it's  it is a nonprofit use chalk explain to you last time we are here and we have a seventy five hundred all in skipping budget and nobody's going to see it for the occupants of the building so basically you know staff are saying that it is part of the construction of the building we have to remove some of the existing trees and i believe initially we were talking about we went out and counted the trees and measurement was fifty two inches in terms of that we've agreed that we can save so we're basically down the thirty two inches of caliper that were moving so the point is is that because we were moving we have to replace that same caliper same number in new treaties over and above our landscaping budget now i'm sure of where we got sight plan of pool the last time didn't realize that he was basically saying that you know you cut any of those existing trees out there and you've got to pay them surely didn't understand that but so here we come we're nonprofit in order to replace the trees with another thirty two inches in caliper of trees we're talking about another roughly seventy five hundred dollars so it takes the landscaping budget on this nonprofit project that nobody's going to bail see from roughly seventy five hundred dollars to fifteen thousand dollars and that's what we're here we're asked we're here to ask the board tonight to find that the three percent requirement that we are meeting is sufficient for the project as proposed reciting a nonprofit five times compliance in the form of landscape architectural features hard to keep features a lot of times i say i don't want these trees because they fall down in a storm when they're twenty inches and that replace twenty g to move i have to replace those trees i have to replace that quibble an inch taleb or all would above my landscape but i don't think it's there to when i come back again to to do an additional project  property that's what it i don't think it's fake fair then to say that well you're going to now clear some of the words and you've got a paying kind of fire to clear those words the first time i came in if i cut those trees up i would have to replace my car and if it but i've been caught in it myself and you're stuck so going to numbers here the last sentence before the read sentence they are there for deficient by forty two caliper inches you just said we're going to save the value of six hundred sixty five dollars if your landscape value is now it's six hundred twenty five dollars each it's four at six twenty five it's two it's two thousand five hundred dollars for four to each two and a half inch tree is six hundred  well i certainly agree with john on heart goes out to  about here a lot of flexibility that we have specific condition in that case was that it represented an overall well landscape low maintenance things so i mean trees are the best solution because you know we don't want to do printing as we don't want to do gardens we don't we don't want anything that they have to mow and it's just the nature of the use if you want to go the that we really don't need so and i'm not going to say the word frank but but it's something that we all pay for you know through different services so it's coming out of everybody's pocket  inches are you sure we have to read the independent of whether about the i am i sure i'm not sure how we i am telling you this is how it's been read and how it how it's been applied if it's there it doesn't matter whether it was required to be there or not if it was on the plan and you cut it down you've got to put it put the you got to replace if it wasn't on the plan then you don't have to replace it so i agree with paul that had they before they ever came in for the first plan clear cut the place but that's just that's just that's not a rational reading list are rational interpretation  if if the mere fact that it was on the site was not necessary in order to get the thing approved that's a happenstance that's not i guess i'd also comment you know frank's point is that up and take it away and not have to replace it which so you know there is that opportunity i mean look this is i mean i'm generally in favor of a fairly strict i'm going to stare at the thing and try to read it as a whole a few times maybe i won't come up with a conclusion tonight but it's just a stupid rule i mean it's it's it's it's not  maintain me but you can't you can't meet the trees have a life like people have a life and you can't maintain a treat to live forever so at some point it's going to die the reason this rule is ludicrous is because for every tree you planted it if it grows grows to its full extent let's say it's a maple it could be sixty inches of the of caliper problem and you have to replace it with with thirty trees with doesn't make any sense at all it sounds like the board is potentially interested in moving away from president and i would suggest that stuff can prepare some examples of press where this president know couple things please let people know in the community that there will be a position open spread the word we cannot say to people we think that you would be approved but you can say we encourage you to apply for just be careful about your language with that second point when that is city council sees a number of candidates when there's no competition and takes input if the board so chooses on what kind of the kinds of things to look for in a candidate so in the past the planning commission has provided input to the city council on you'd like some more diversity and diversity to ask means that they live in say the northeast quadrant or that they are young or they live in a multifamily building it may mean somebody is area of expertise that the board feels like you know we could really use a hand with the females important the interest in geographic diversity i think we've got excellent and then we've got sort of one person on the sort of of west the interstate they don't really have anybody in that chamberlain there's not really make a difference we don't see a lot of chamberlain application an it would be nice to have that area know what is the value it would be great i will say that when i applied last january or february i was one of two applicants and the other person didn't really know what the d r with a better pool right that's kind of my right point thank you yeah i mean i found out through front porch forum the week before the meeting so that it should be somebody was not just