information was so important to the judge to determine yes your honor mr chase is spending more time in jail because of the two possible methods of determining the drug quantity in this case the judge using the most productive possible method he's used and spending more time in jail because the district court considered unreliable evidence and the evidence was unreliable from the government's forensic  what was the most reliable method the district or rather die governments expert never gave that information about what was most reliable and he didn't do that because he didn't look at the tally of the circumstances of government are an expert for the defense he would expert help you out is that what it's all about i don't i certainly wouldn't suggest that is any kind of general rule your honor but i would say this that it would happen here i would respectfully disagree with that your honor in this respect that in this case the i think he didn't have all the information by the time defense counsel crossed him and asked him to make new calculations based on suppositions or evidence that was found i think an expert the government's expert did everything an expert could do in this to two ways your honor we know for sure that there were two last two labs that have the three locations i don't think it's really even disputed that there were two labs and that's based on the kinds of glass for found various other materials that there was some trace of the cherry on some of those things and there was no trace material found on the five thousand milliliter triple that flask so the expert did a number of different calculations you did a calculation based on simply how much good the lab produced based on that five thousand i class that's the five hundred or more brown clues however even on crossed examination he was given by mr glazier the defense lawyer down below a series of hypotheticals or series of questions based on the evidence found is and one of those questions was is it accurate to say that it's around forty to sixty grams rather than seven produced based on this hundred boxes are found and the experts government experts agree that yes that would be approximately accurate forty to sixty would be reasonable so i would suggest even putting aside a five thousand billable lead a flask we know that this lab was running for months at a time until just this one that the levels up and running this lab was up and running from i think about august or fall through june or something like that and i don't i don't recall what it is the record that that demonstrates it may be a witness who said that the lab was up and running for that period of time but you're correct we don't have a witness who says there were ten clips in that period or twenty five or or any particular number but i would offer this it would be under reasonable to think that in that reasonable estimate based on the likes of time we know they're up and the size of a lab even assuming the fan it's forty two grams and even at forty two grams per could plus one hundred ninety rams three a total of three hundred fifty that the reason was that he wasn't considering the five thousand elevator flask and that's why he denied the motion first place but i would suggest also that the government's expert i guess provided all the numbers and calculations with all the information that another expert would give some other number at and i don't think even the defense is opposes the numbers that the government expert came up with on that cross examination question when he was asked to recalculate based on different assumptions expert and the rest of the information if you use the word preponderance whether the word preponderance mean in the civil or criminal laws more likely than not it's more likely than not and i would suggest your out of that i between the government's experts the rest of the cooks made even using the defendants lowest number of forty two grams of cooked united states which suggests that over a period of eight months plus the other lab a low number i'd estimate by a low number estimate had better up and running at this location for that period of eight months didn't wait til it was going on it you know when they had these labs you're always in i guess in some respects hoping for a lucky break th he'll find a lot of material there but but it would only be that a lucky break to be able to have that sort of information because of course when they're done cooking they use are distributed methamphetamine and we're left with a case like this where it's impossible to defense expert in this case he would have added another opinion to look at and in determining whether or not that was in fact reliable based on the circumstances here and man of time the lab first running and those those elements what do you she did coke more than one time but what she said and the evidence bears out at least in the fact that the largest class was not used is the fact that she did several cooks at least seven cups but her much smaller amount she was feeding his own drug habit he couldn't have access to the two that that precursors that were necessary and there wasn't any record evidence in the record that would suggest that he could get bag that those precursors the only you're either in these cases where the judge almost has to guess and the experts themselves are almost having to guess the standard is clear that the judge has to look for and in december a liability and they have to go with the most conservative amount and so you have two judges here they're both reliable they're both using the scientific method that's appropriate the judge has to go with the most conservative amounts in that case then that the government has the burden of proof if they if they governments expert doesn't prove by a preponderance of the evidence yes the defense expert would have to prevail and but most importantly that the government or rather the judge has to look at what's the most conservative  to have an expert testify telephonically to hire to do all the work and to testify at the sentencing hearing it would have been a thousand dollars that the that the act would allow the government heard the judge to to