all right this is the time in the place for the meeting of the board of the fields for the city of holland we are here to consider applications for variances and or special exceptions the sport must try to interpret each application as it relates to the ordinance the sport is empowered to rezone nor take any action that could be considered rezoning variances need to meet a number of crucial tests in order to be granted for those of you here tonight you've probably already answered a number of these questions in your application we're going to go through that again there is a procedure guide available we ask that when you come to the microphone to speak that you state your name and your address we typically hear the applicant first followed by anyone supporting the application th anyone in opposition to it will go through the public hearing closed the public hearing and typically then render a decision you're welcome to stay for deliberations but typically there is no further public comment if you elect not to stay for the deliberations you may call city halls after eight thirty tomorrow morning to find out what happened and so with that having been said can we get the first by five six three myrtle avenue david's golden is requesting a variance and or a special exceptions for the construction of a new grads the overall building sizes for the existing inter process structures on the site will exceed twenty four twenty five hundred square feet in the area the proles garage will also exceed the maximum height of twelve feet already my understanding is this is already on the table so i'm going to need  a motion to to move it off the table all right you get your name and address and tell us what you want david scolding five sixty three myrtle avenue and i'm proposing to tear down my existing raj which is a small basically in a one style garage couple questions i think sure what's the pitch of the roof on your house ten pitch ten in the pitch proposed for the garage the majority of it is eight there's a gable on the front that's ten ok faces the road so that will  match the pitch of the house but i try to reduce the pitch of the main structure of the garage you know enough to to keep the height now to keep the height down but yet not be so far that it looks completely different from the house to the very peak is eight hundred four and the average height of the garage the average well the average height of the garage would be  let's see just over thirteen feet ok  right what are you planning on using the attic space in the garage for just strictly storage it's when talking to the belize inspectors they said that it has to have a maximum load rating i think of twenty pounds per square foot so right basically you know throw christmas storage i bet you'd rather christmas ornaments yeah that's about it yeah exactly ok ok  any impact in your opinion to the adjoining properties or the neighborhood no i don't think it if it doesn't affect anybody's sightlines anything to that effect the houses on our side of the street are pretty close and any view of what the water is actually over on east and drive and it's taking the place of our existing drive so the only difference in sight line would be you might see a little bit less of you know the front of my house or actually the back side of my house ok but yeah the the front of my house actually faces east and right ok all right one of the things we noted is that the temporized with with your house and that would exceed twenty five hundred square foot of building on the property well i did the math on that and i don't come up with the same number of o i actually came up with twenty four hundred fifty two square so it's a just just squeaking on here it's fifty feet under ok roughly forty feet under the twenty five hundred square feet that was keeping my existing graduate is not going away does that include all the buildings on the property yeah there's just a little like a garden shed the house in the garage and there's a there's a little old existing p that they said that that would have to go away it's a small maybe six or seven foot square a little glorified doghouse kind of thing are cars typical length is about twenty foot well typical length on average god as this is about twenty four feet sometimes twenty eight feet i want to go a little bit deeper because you know we've got lawn mowers and equipment and stuff like that yard stuff that i want to put in there and i just want to have room to be able to get around things i don't want to be tight your house the only one and they were hood that you're requesting  three car garage i didn't notice any other three car garages in your not not on my not on my street i guess if you go if you go further down within the infill area and central park there are three stall garages but on my media section of myrtle between south shore and in the lake it's it's probably the only three stud i asked a question because one of the questions one of our test questions is wife and myself and so we actually have you know five vehicles and so trying to keep them from apartment outside which is a problem right now is it possible for you to lower the height on the garage and i think there's a there's a twelve foot height limit now there with the exception that we can go to sixteen feet under certain circumstances have you looked at that possibility of having a lower yeah the way the way i read it the way i understand it is it's an average for a fight of twelve feet so if you have an eight foot eve in us and a maximum sixteen foot high so the average is twelve feet i looked at doing dropping it down to a six pitch but it just looks you know it doesn't keep in character with the house and that's what i was trying to do is just keep in character and style the house trust or after as far is are you doing with him across the ridge or this you know it's going to be a truck so be an engineer and engineer drives ok so go and everything's engineers there and then your anyone else here to speak in favor of this application won here to speak against this epic ation not seen anybody else i'll go ahead and close the public hearing what's the pleasure the board and i can make a motion we pass date make sure you're going down the special exception list and not the variance list average between the sidewalls and the peak is thirteen foot where sixteen is the maximum the x bases will be used for minor storage it country club road teams new houses requesting a variance in special exemption to create a flying into construction new construct a new house without connection to city sewer connection is the sewer is a requirement for the creation of a new flag to separate into two issues the first one i recommend we go after is the the variance for the sewer and then provided that flies will  well first of all the city has never provided sewer north legion park drive so our house and the neighbors have always been on septic system ok and i think you probably received a memo from the board of public works from kevin cone regarding the ok that his statement is that it's almost impossible to city sewer to that the line down there ok is there anything else that would be reasonable to do other than septic i don't believe there is no  well we talked to omar but rather than getting tested every thing we want to make sure this would go through without before you go ahead and get it all perked and everything that that's ok we're just waiting on this decision before they do anything else but ok all right so any any further questions from the board all right so i'll call to see if there's anyone else in favor and opposition and then book will vote on it and will call you back up here to do second half some good ok and anyone anyone to post we're talking here putting in something system at the end a country club my name is david cruel and i love it love an eighty three riverview drive with us right across the yeah one of the new new condos that are i so i'm not sure i'm in favor or i'm sorry one one eight three riverview drive not sure on an opposition or ok and i want to be a good neighbor or my my concern would be that as you know the village has spent consider we're going to be spending hundreds of thousands they probably already have when we take ownership of protecting that the river and the land  the river up yes we have a big retention pond yeah i don't know if we built the uplift station or that's a city so there's you know there's considerable expense going into protecting the right disposition of water and sewage in that area and so this is right up against the green space that would be our concern there that we're we're treating this green space like it should be treated right and that would be a major concern anyone else to speak on a septic field at the end a country club all right hearing none will close the public hearing on that what's the pleasure of the board a move we've proved ok i'll support all right so i've got a motion by van we're in and supported by souter findings of fact which is the slope of the property  makes the circumstances and the conditions warrant variance in this case and it's more than two hundred feet from the nearest connection which was supported by a memo from them  the condition here was not self created it's it's the land it would be very burdensome for the applicant to attempt to satisfy this requirement in as much as the distance is so requirements of installing a septic system will be met and will not impact the green space and the conditions that you want to put on it so that is why you are complying with all the be by the by the time you cut the flag a lot off is your remaining property in the flag lot separately going to be similar to other similar in size to other lots in the neighborhood you know they'll be actually larger ok and you're not going to the small slot on the road or anything like that ok are you going to have connections to water well to water the water yeah yeah we talked about sewer so we don't need to worry about that kevin says that we will be able to get water ok all right do you feel it would be compatible and hermione us with the adjoining properties in the neighborhood i think so we're sort of separate from most of the anyone else from the board have questions for the applicant that's you know the rest of our questions talk about curb cuts and all that kind of stuff we will need a twenty foot easement to to the end a country club but i think your application said something less than that but we will got a property sketch here that would indicate that you would like the front yard to be the south and the rear yard to be to the north towards the river yes it's  optional actually ok well when when we make the when we split the property in and say yes you've got approval for for a flag lot we need to say which one's going to be the front yard and that and what that does is that sets all the set backs from the lot lines and so the the largest setback is going to be for your front yard and so  cindy you get the call it gets up there ok yes based on the size of a lot the front yard the large front yard would be thirty feet back on the property line would be the line to the south the setback to the rear property line would be the property to the north property line and the sides would be to the east and west and the lot is quite large and there's plenty of room to have thirty foot that back on all sides not a problem so that's what i'm saying ok all right any other questions from the work for the all right thank you much all right thank you or anyone else to speak in favor of this application anyone to speak could put in opposition of the application ok seeing none i'll close the public hearing what's the pleasure of  yes or what are the questions you have just the ones there isn't the package so we're looking at is there a twenty foot easement to the street or connections to water sewer is it compatible is it similar to other houses or lots of the neighborhood  those this would be city this is a very it's right it is approval of a land of vision where one residence a lot sits behind another and it is a special exception of not invariants ok fair enough to remind me what the answer was in the water that the applicant was planning to connect to water and we've previously approved an exception for the sewer so that it's not required this we approve the variance for the sewer so those requirements are satisfied i also believe in looking at the top our graffiti and the lack of objections that this is compatible and harmonious with the neighborhood  and not detrimental either a free sample which does not need to be reviewed by the city attorney or it could be an easement which does need to be reviewed by the city attorney at the applicant's costs sions i have several letters that were submitted concerns with objections i have just kind of highlighted them they were lengthy and said basically a lot of the same  things there was a letter submitted by daniel in vicki miller concerns and objections were fires in the spreading of fires from fireworks noise pollution there have already been company parties on the property in they have been allowed security for our property in our homes from campers the environmental impact from such a project water runoff displaced wildlife threatened species of  vols fillmore township supervisor the fact that the project borders a residential area effects of noise lighting in late night activity in value of existing homes could greatly you a letter from kevin in ruth nagel kirk if existing home could greatly be devalued biggest investment in most people's lives the board really needs to consider this lack of sound barrier in privacy fendi fencing between a campground in the residential area letter from thomas and sarah harris value of consist existing homes could be great leader effects of the noise lighting in late night to beauty physical wear welfare safety of the area including fire hazard noise pollution trespassing vandalism theft in overall environmental impact traffic ingress and egress displaced wildlife including she included a website  report value of existing home could be greatly devalued existing or effects of noise lending in late night t v personal watercraft boats except for a lack of sound barrier privacy fencing between a campground in the existing resident at residential area ok thank you do we have an applicant to speak to this that evening my name is dave gans inc sixty west forty fifth street all in michigan all right thank you we're going to do it here well requesting a conditional use variance for fifty two acres of property there's four personals that actually transferred through a sixty four acre piece one thousand acre lake we're looking to use three of those personals currently you need me to explain where the sure you can feel free to talk to it you can walk over to to the computer there and point a new pilot gas station was put in right here and they rerouted with sixty fourth street around here a little bit for ease of traffic so i don't think traffic is going to be an issue that's been remed right now you come down sixty fourth street it runs directly dead end into this property this is the total property here we're looking at these three percival's this is the one that has the lake on it as being you that small here where you go through they are there's a seven hundred foot long storage building there used to be a chicken coop is being used as storage mostly seasonal boats during the winter ok so the fillmore township park is due south of the proposed campground and there is some residence is south and east and south and west right i believe it's in this plot here i think ok that's the township park my right ok so to the east would be residence ok ok but you do have an easement there to get to your property from that turn around you can see if i put this the same orientation you can see the easement here because there's no restrictions on that  campground well ideally we started out with cabins and cabins on the lake ok but in order to do anything there we have to run city water and sewer and which is pretty heavy expense so then we started looking at what can we do to so the mix of mix of campsites and eventually cabins are you envisioning something similar to like a state park where there's a limit on duration a state or this is something where somebody come  spend a summer or is it in vision to be around not year round it would all be seasonal ok there could be an area that there would be full summer camping we look some for example if you're familiar with they have an area that this year all season and people live there during the summer and go to work and we thought because of its proximity to the expressway that would kind of make sense that people could live there ease back and forth to get on the expressway to work  so it could be an area that would be full summer but most of it wouldn't us a paid weekly two weeks short term  so as as part of this this process we've had to to get input from from various city functions  so fire department came back you know requesting twenty foot wide all weather surface streets capable handling fire trucks and fire hydrants separated by five hundred feet or less and limiting fire to you know designated fire pits or grills and limiting the the fuel the fire wood or charcoal any concerns with w something along those lines and no actually to give a little history on this summer of two thousand and fourteen department of michigan department of transportation re did the reconstructed the eastbound lanes of i one ninety six right there ok and they use this property as the staging area for that project and in exchange for the use of the land they actually built roads and a road that goes all the way to the g vehicles that's a number of the letters came in asking about noise impact and in that it's a look at your thinking beyond jet skis on the lake or the t v s or something like that there could be jet skis on the lake i guess i think we're looking at mostly is kayaks rowboats that type of thing that's kind of what we use it for now it's just a family doctor we get get up you know this family for picnics and so on we have a couple kayaks row boats we don't have any motorized boats at this point but i guess i would rule it out so you would be opposed to a condition that would prohibit more iced use on the lake i think that's one of the reasons that we're we're going through this process is to see what conditions are put on it and once we understand what the conditions are there paved roads are heard limit of this is going to help us make a decision the lake that's their words that private the current park off one hundred forty third you really can't get to it so it's really it is you know whether there's a fence across the back of our property that it's ok so the pond is wholly contained on your again in the same orientation you can see it there but this is the long storage building here this is where you come in the lake and it's these three parcels that we're looking at so this of the fifty two acres you take these this whole area the lake is about eighteen acres and there is a founts across this back there's a fence along this side there's a founds here to a point and then it's broken yeah this is not there's over the fence here by this woods yet it was all fenced we've taken some of that o using this diagram could you could you show where on this property the majority of the campsites would be right here you can see anything in yellow here will be booked as phase one so you can see these are besides here we're looking at a few cabins here and some cabins along the lake as phase one three out here with a swimming pool and different amenities to two hundred two hundred fifty maybe and again it's sort of phase one of the fist goes this is all kind of conceptual at this point so i can't tell you exactly that ballpark maybe so part of it is the approvals condition of the nuisance to surrounding property so   what is that distance between the southernmost part of your campsites are in phase three let's say and the first residents further south first residen commission i don't know the answer to that question just recently we had that meeting and i'm not sure that the that was passed on to the applicant but i do have those here it would have to speak to them quick for a campground with paved curb streets and all the sand and they didn't honestly get out there either they said so they didn't realize it did have a lot of fence already or own the property so ok they were fine with just any type of fence which right went take us much to finish the type of fence but then they did remove the recommendation on paving he said that didn't make sense or campground either and i think that's there might have been one ok questions from other members of the board may maybe just a little explanation of history too from my point is it started with be fun to have a couple cabins out there for a family you know and maybe write one or two just busy holland tourist time type of thing well that the ground was test and you can't do wells or septic and you couldn't anyway being in the city so by the time cost start adding up running water and sewer out there how do we pay to get those costs  pay to get the road so in all these costs to get up and out well the least impact on the environment is a campground it's just lots we're not committed to massive buildings or anything like that it's just green space so that was kind of the way to to pay the overhead of getting utilities out there and roads and then we can put away in some cabins would be kind of the ideal thing and then the only other point i'd make too is you can see any type of noise like he said is a good half mile away from the southern neighbor properties there and those that obviously know the cabins we have along the lake would just be like two person father son has been way fishing cabins just right on the edge of the lake there so quiet activity type stuff and then we do have kind of a trail draw on on the south side of the lake which would be just for golf carts or not enough for cars or anything ok i have a question for you have you done any market research on need or demand for camping or for cabins in west michigan that's that's probably we're right we rent her house so  didn't already booked for next summer so that's where the idea story well it's up a couple small cabins there and you guys know better than anybody how well tourism is doing in this town and so the green lights for camping already at a fair amount of vehicle you can hear it we have community gardens out there so i garden out there in the summer and there's fourteen gardeners now so when you're in the garden sure you can hear it and what you hear mostly is when the cars go off the road a that was our concern more than the neighbor's complaints was our concern was the highway noise so that's going to be louder than any campers i think but we didn't plan on firework displays or any other questions from the court right thank you much do we have anyone else here to speak in favor of the application  anyone to speak in opposition of the application of them still haven't been filled to my way of thinking the engine driven driving that project was money money for the developer money for the city sometime thereafter the township figured it needed a par properties he had his project ok and the subdivision that you reference to again if you go and move your pan to my right heard that house the next one's house and then if you come south which we understand and we've it's been a joke and we've also where but at ten o'clock at night i'm sorry i'm going to albany and i want to go to bed go to sleep we can still hear the music we can understand what it is we can understand the dialogue over the p a system i know you mentioned that you've been in campgrounds that doesn't shut down a ten day might have a time but it doesn't happen thing that really bothers my wife and i of course is the fire in the diagram he showed and talked about campers being a half mile away from the houses when the drawing that looks good but if you notice further south there's a tent camping right next to the property line that is not a half mile away tent camping usually denotes camp fires and it's been my experience just there's been a few fireworks going off in there and yes the state has made it legal but common sense just has not always sold with fireworks so what's your estimation distance from i guess would be the northern most house off white tail drive in proximity to the tent camping  think it could be as fit as much as one hundred thousand dollars per property but frankly that's a big chunk of our our ownership i'd like you to think about that i see potential for this project i see a potential for devaluating our homes the potential for stealing our serenity potential for the to threaten the wildlife i ask that you please take a look at it from our perspective how would you like to have this in your backyard i don't think the jensens would like to have it in their backyard which you like a truce can't print on your regular thank you thank you good evening and thank you for hearing you mean my name is cindy jamrock i live it four three three one white ill drive and i appeal to you as a mother i have two children and the transit population that a campground brings definitely concerts mean from safety standpoint the cost of a school teacher this week we had two thirteen year old girls attempted to be abducted in the community their work and my kids are on three right now on the property our neighbors are very well connected with each other and i don't see how you would  crap campground residents that's a huge concern from the other one as the noise level having children it has been loud and we do realise on celebration occasions that that will occur i cannot imagine two hundred camp ground residents being quiet it is definitely a concern for me as the millers have also mentioned we have built our dream home there as well we looked for two years for this piece of property we love our home we love holland we love him alton we do not want to move but we cannot afford to take a hundred thousand and her house it's a great concern for us i hope you take these into consideration as you decide what you're going to allow for the selling of this property think you  right so if we can see in the monitor perfectly can you see what's on the monitor there ok that's a little bit o still thank you very much for your guys time thank you very much for the games and family for their consideration in advance again my name is ken and my family and i live at four three three in two thousand and twelve my family and i moved on to wait till drive and vesting in that property due to its private quiet and peaceful occasion as one of the newest homeowners on whitetail and the youngest homeowner on wait till i try to provide for my family in a way that we can sustain a long term welfare on w we can see it is it is quite a development and i do think it seems like a positive opportunity for the ending but i would like to you know as as my neighbors are brought up i'd like to bring a few key points into focus again i will i will stress i do think this is a very unique and very lucrative opportunity for the genesis family i don't know zincs personally i've never met them until tonight but actually i've heard plenty about them whether it be through friends or community members and i can say the one thing i do know about them is that they're very caring they're hardworking family a very successful family and a very loving christian family and i just ask that maybe those values shine through and those sentiments shine through in the consideration of what till doctor first off i'd like to touch on the financial ramifications we've heard a couple sightings here that can do weird from film or township has written a letter and given a couple sightings that this could do you value our home as much as one hundred thousand dollars again as the youngest homeowner and the closest and most direct number two comes to the privacy the noise and the nuisances page two of the one eight sixteen proposal which i think most of you have the planning commission states that no you shall be approved which would be contrary to the following environment guidelines on the guidelines specifically prohibit any noise just for pressure pitch frequency etc that would interfere interfere with the reasonable enjoyment of any president or prospective legally conforming use of adjoining nearby premises that b s the private lake or gorgie lake as this proposal states isn't governed by a body or an agency like the coast guard it's not i mean we do know that privately it's a privately so we didn't hear of actually any government says who's going to be on the property monitoring all of these question marks that i'm up time unless there's plans for that no one will be there and again as as they've shown in these depictions and described the private link is approximately one third the size of the overall acreage of this development project so i can imagine as as the previous right here states there could be personal watercraft motorized boats that lake is is huge compared to the overall acreage and i imagine that's going to be a great attraction and focal point to this development so obviously folks p w sees personal watercraft could could we're part of this development so would a prohibition on internal combustion engine address those fears absolutely absolutely that would that would cover that point because i think as we all know as as fun as personal our craft are to other people it is a serious nuisance the first the top half of that picture is a map of the proposed hiking trail in the camping areas laid out in the twelve twenty two proposed right where of it we're looking at the south east corner of the gang's thing property right i presume that your house there is with the lawn that you maintain around the correct correct and as we were talking if you've ever been out to whitetail all through this up there this came to mind this is the back side of our house and that's directly looking at the wooded area that they talk about ok so the others that is looking out the back of my property the red lines in this picture show the property lines specific to whitetail drive and again this is approximate provided by google maps and zero point zero especially for the next the next map google now provides a scale twenty meters so keep that in mind you can you can see twenty meters is about sixty six feet which brings us here one idea i had for the game thinks if they haven't you know crossed all their t s are dotted all their eyes and how they're going to set out and secure this area or lay this out when idea i had which you can see here again twenty meters as of the google scale is about sixty six sixty six feet and what i propose could be done is a security fence of some sort which is still a question mark but a security fence put at the top of the yellow lines now using that scale that approximately comes to say seventy feet or more on the far left which would be what north western most corner of the  have your your request here would be some sort of a fence across the tops of those yellow lines the that you've drawn yes which come out to about seventy one fifty in two hundred ok and that would that would serve a few purposes not only nuisances noise some of the fire hazards i mean everything going on in that property would be set back in a tapered fashion from white tail and then it works its way as you can see to the lake which gets pretty tight in this point right here is where cottonwood park where the fillmore township park that's right there all right idea number two if those distances can't be met and there's just too much to give up in terms of tenting  or building the cabins and such is build the bird like they've done on the northern part of the property there's a significant berm with frequent pine trees build a berm that comes through the woods a six foot berm with very frequent pine trees exteriors to a security fence which they've already mentioned in their proposal they would do all right would you prefer a burn there instead of the existing trees in addition to because as you can see and i will pull up another thing that i just found and this is not a way to show off my beautiful children and my my awesome father but you see this at the down the trees loser leaves of the trees lose their leaves and i don't know if we can focus this any better but we can see it just fine from the screens ok good so that gives you a perspective of the view and that's actually looking directly on a line right here so that it is the adjoining propert any or all of those combinations of ideas in terms of providing a barrier for nuisances noises trespassing and the combination of all those if those can or can't be met i propose that maybe they consider doing something different with that two track or hiking trail i don't know how the how far this goes because i i i can see the leg but there's a lot of trees so i imagine this goes further this way but but could they stop it could they reroute it here i have alter alter the trail and it's going to put here  and so no matter what is done here or what choices are made there's a few other knowns in my mind the height of a security fence which is mentioned in the proposal  what type of security fence that is is that a galvanized chain link fence does it have the pipe structure on the top and sides currently the for fence that separates as i call them fence posts the cattle style fence posts that there is actually nothing there there just posts and i know i understand that that's legacy that's not what you're planning to put up brad for you are with that but in closing  i guess i'd like to say hopefully somewhere in here there is a solution that is financially aesthetically and functionally sound for all parties and i guess sitting here today there seems to be a central message among the white tail patrons that is a message of fear fear of the unknown fear of the future along the landscape of white tail drive and i think all of us here from white tail drive would love to participate participate in the future and work on a long tear long term solution given the opportunity and once again nuisance do you propose that would solve that the noises that people walking as a visual sight line is so i mentioned in my proposal that the berm would be in addition to a security fence on the exterior side or southern facing side so the fence i would say does the safety part the berm would do noises nuisance even a deterrent to people who wanted to commit crime trespass if you can't see what's over there you might not be tempted to go over there or want to go over there or have desires to go over there so a six foot berm anyone else to speak in opposition to this application of thanks for the kind words appreciate it earlier goal number one is we care more about our reputation than we do the money and we do want to be good neighbors that's no problem your ideas are good first thought i had was you do a chain link fence our customers are long gone when the leaves fall off and you're staring at an ugly fence so i don't you know and then we're probably taken more trees out to put a  would be useful to do so but i like your idea we could move the trail closer away and you know we'd be more than willing to work with neighbors to sorry we do more than willing to work with the neighbors and be neighborly on this thing to keep in mind is like my dad said he's out there to get away from the city and to get peace and fourteen other gardeners are out there too for that peaceable thing so we all have the same goal on we want to provide that to renters customers whatever piece and buy it out there it's not at all a party and like i said we've got some vacation rental homes and we turn down daily renters that we know  partiers are teenagers or whatever this isn't going to be a druse campground at all it either be high end or strictly family type stuff so obviously words don't mean a whole lot in the right now and we're ok with that but i guess i want don't overthink it where if you request a fence and you're staring at ugly fence we're not you know what i'm saying you know we don't want  fencing or that  table and you guys can go back and kick it around and come back next month if you want with you can speak to this too i guess my own or quest would be that to do a campground has to go through the d e q state of michigan ok so if you put any contingencies like fence or paving or anything like that i would request that we don't have to do unless we file the d q paperwork you know i'm saying so if we don't we don't pursue the campground we're not stuck putting a fence up no no question i guess i'd be happy to if the neighbors are willing to it's to sit down with them and see if we can come to him you know and look at the agreement and say this works or it doesn't mean we want to be good neighbors to him like john said that's where i get my peace i go out there and garden during the summer lots of other folks and you know couple people have mentioned like microphones and things at ten o'clock at night which i don't know i mean this probably is locked up this is a gated piece  not sure who's getting on the property to do that but if there's issues noise that you're hearing now we need to deal with that because i don't know where it's coming from so but i'd be happy to to meet together with the folks and let's talk it over and see are regarding the management of the campground of you that you have an experience with can from management or are you trained at all in what you're getting into or is just kind of like a we'll see what happens when we get there kind of thing or do you know i'm not personally but my son john owns a number of cottages up at silver lake and he's into this quite a bit and sees the potential of it but that's not here he's in florida myself my son and he's got kids coming up so become a family and endeavor  i'd be i'd be happy to provide the guessings with the recommendations from the planning commission the fire department the other departments so they could take that into consideration as well when they're ready to come back that would be wonderful if you could also provide us information  on statistics of what you know like what the first thing i see when i look at the plan is that city density density density and that scares me and you know concerns me as to how you came about the number i mean obviously you want to maximize your profit you want to be profitable and stay in that but you know what what is the threshold of what you're going to make money versus that which in up them that would help us i think ok or help me anyway i'd like to make a comment that i think that the standards that we're given to make a decision about this are quite quite strict and they're quite important for you to take into consideration the potential for there being a large noise impact from two hundred fifty campsites i think is quite significant being a camper myself and i go to campsites quite a bit i find them quite loud and difficult to control you get people rolling through every now and then to try to control the noise but once they're gone everything returns to what it was good for the car came through and i find i find that noise goes on into the night quite a long time with a lot of noise it depends on who showing up but there are parties that go on there's all kinds of things that happen i think there is a significant possibility for a big noise impact from this especially on there wasn't a residential area i wouldn't think anything about it but given the fact there is the people of the west in this property i think that probably is quite a serious possibility from noise about proud of the value of property i think noise is probably tied to that as well if there is a large noise impact i think it will devalue property or impact the property its people so i think these are important considerations to take for the for the work you think about you know because i think where we are talking about people's lives that are already there and i think they have every every i think most people that buy properties are bill they have they have their onus on them to research what's around them and what could possibly take place around them and they have every expectation to think that that is what's going to happen at the worst case will happen but when it comes down to anticipate exceptions to rules and standards i'm not sure they have that responsibility also saw i'm concerned about the nice  just to put something else out there if we are going to table this the condition the conditional use runs with the land so even if we have no doubts about your veracity  it's sold and we don't know who the subsequent land owner would be and we can only authorize conditional use if certain terms do not result in violation and as fred mentioned you mentioned noise a mission in specifically says ever you shall void the emission of noise such pressure law in this picture frequency of occurrence or any combination thereof which would interfere with a reasonable and the reality of camping in modern people just say hey i'm not condemning this but people start having a couple of beers around the fire at night in summer time and nine to great did you say did you say you would like to table i'm fine with tabling yes ok the only question i have a think we had to have a thirty day we had to be submitting this information thirty days ahead of the next meeting sort of can we make the next meeting as we've already met the thirty day notice requirement sal he would be tabling it for additional information ok all right all right and i'm thinking that will be our next regular meeting which i believe is twenty five and so we are about two three blocks from the forty three address crosscut i have a daughter living there and michelle who is in the wheelchair i can't get her in that house myself i can with help there are steps and we can't get her through the grudge her chair doesn't fit through the doors ok through the kitchen we can get her up the front but there's steps that we have to lift the chair and there's grass in the yard from the driveway to get her over there so we have to push or through quite a long area of grass and ok all right so my what we would like to do is on the side of the house which is closest to the driveway where we'd be parking put some concrete sidewalk and then some decking rather than a ramp and if i have identical that would be in step levels with enough room then i can tip or chair back and lift her up go to the next level i think you're into the house ok so our set back there required cindy remind me that some of our requirements here are that's it looks like we're seventeen foot to the building are so what i'm seeing here if i'm interpreting this the the rectangular area there is covered deck and then a twelve foot area there that's that's not covered is what you're right questi i mean we could change that and make it smaller if it doesn't work the way it is it's just that was what we thought was good about would be really nice let's let's do it that way  and we could make the roof just it would be nice to have enough of a roof so that when we get are up there if it's raining or something it just helps not to be right you know i have a lot of yeah to cover but  restrictions on eating and in that kind of stuff hanging out off the side of the building there or something all along those lines that would be allowed in this area back without a roof less than thirty inches above the grade can extend into one half the required yard so an uncovered deck could be within ten feet of the property line the roof however still has to meet the the twenty foot set i mean we could lower it i mean i could per up one more step if we were going up from the sidewalk to one level and then another we could go to another level is that a problem if i recall correctly the uncovered part of the deck is less than thirty six inches above the grade ok all right so they could potentially go seven and a half feet out from the house then but that cracked provided it wasn't covered correct  trying to put some bones around ok what is it that you know ok you know you're this is what you'd really like if we go you know a foot less than that or two foot less than that you know and we can get  without setting precedents and you can get you substantially what you're looking for you know that's maybe we could get away with all the way around here so you know that's we just wanted something or to every six inches right so all right are you saying that you can't have any cover at all well no we're not saying that ok or what we're saying right now is you know in speaking with cindy and that you could go seven and a half feet away from your house ok and not put a cover on it not even come and talk to us ok oh i see and so that's what you're allowed to do in your law to go seven and a half feet and not have a cut right and so we're here tonight trying ok what what's reasonable of the situation and where do we want to go from it is what justifies or forgot to obviously you know does it does it meet your needs right yes and those types of things ok above twelve for the width of the this this number is eight eight ok thank you it looks like they're they're proposing you are you proposing stairs down from that rectangular deck it would just be one level it wouldn't the stairs ok it would have to graduate it so that i could just go up one if i did read back now i can come up like in the curb right right we did come in here at the curb right and left the back up kind of the next one it wouldn't i couldn't get up like two steps right no no no no so so where i'm cindy if you could point to the rectangular section and i think you can see it on the screen here him where mike my questions are is just to the right and a ball of cindy's pencil there there was a it looks like there's some some steps running the entire all right cindy does a railing around a deck less than thirty five inches off the ground or thirty six inches off the ground that doesn't really know that ok that's that's good ok  i do have a question the this jack because we're looking at this under reasonable accommodation for proveable you would be willing to remove this tack at a future date if the home were sold or if you know if you want to sell the property to somebody that didn't need wheelchair access to the the house that and you need to to remove the non conforming roof or the extra size of the deck we have a seven and half way that would be legal so to speak right but then the rest of it wouldn't be so you'd have to accommodate and say all right you know you'd have to make it legal before you could could vacate the seven and a half point be able to be covered right right  cindy earlier ok all right so we've got an idea of what we're we're asking for here then is there any other things i'm not thinking of that you are less one that you were thinking to so you know that we're all volunteers here so we're going to as well any other questions for the applicant from from the board ok thank you anyone else to speak in favor of the application and he wanted to speak in opposition i do want to say that you and your boys and girls been very well behaved throughout a very long meeting so all right seeing done i'll close the public hearing what's the pleasure of the board  reminder that this is a request for reasonable accommodation not for a variance so we don't we aren't looking at the tests for a period right right can you remind us what we do need to find cindy that there is a barrier to fair housing opportunity that the construction has to be removed when the disabled individual no longer lives there and  this will work to provide what she needs to have a reasonable combination for access to the property and they've explored other ideas and this is the one that works to provide the reasonable accommodation and it will not require a fundamental alteration to the zoning program and it will not create a financial burden for the city ok down to be within seven and a half foot that we discussed would that be we need to determine whether seven and a half foot be good enough or right and i think we need to rely on the applicant to tell us what they need and they visited this several times already i'm comfortable that this is a reasonable accommodation on the day and i'm prepared to make a motion ok a move that we  ok federal fair doesn't i think the i mean the construction will be removed when the conditions no longer present for making this combination  the work here will provide reasonable access to the applicant they have explored other ideas and have convinced the board that this is the one that motion approved ok we're done with the business than my understanding it is we do not have minutes to approve yet that is correct they're not available at this time ok fair enough we'll move on next meeting date is february twenty fifth and i will entertain a motion to ad