well the regular meeting of the water resources committee please come to order today is wednesday september thirtieth twenty fifth and it's about a minute after nine in the morning chair would like to thank everyone for being so prompt i really really appreciate this but before we get into our meeting would you please check your cell phones to make sure that we had them on the silent mode  then we'll see it's too much we also have without her concert tour this morning mike white good morning thank you very much for being on time and good morning here good morning and excuse and that is mr and mr good however with us we have dave taylor the director of water supply good morning and we have even seen it and she is the planing program manager for the water good morning don and just for your information we're going to do the presentation first without objection from the members so it may be a while before we get to testimony i hope you don't mind we also have did news for nand is in the office good morning ella and you heard will be doing the presentation first already thank you very much so kind of stand by we'll be doing it presentation will last about a half an hour so please stand by for that members we have one item on today's agenda and that is what are one will head protection overlayed district the committee is in receipt of correspondence dated february twenty third twenty fifteen from the department of the corporation counsel transmitting a proposed resolution and title referring to the not even a pending commission a proposed bill amending title nineteen code relating to well head protection the purpose of the proposed resolution is to refer to the planning commission's a proposed bill entitled a bill for public's health welfare and safety by minimizing the risks of contamination of awkward for years to to preserve and protect existing and potential drinking water sources say reid to implement  the general plan and forward to prohibit and then uses that are incompatible with ground water protection members that without objections i would like to do the presentation first before the testimony i've been kind of saying that me i do have your permission any objection thank you very much i also would like to have everyone breast understanding that we there is no intent to take action on this matter today this is to have more information and given to the public as this has been brought up before i have been asked i have attended the oh dear the water water board meeting i have attended meetings of the working group and i've been asked many many questions about this ordinance and i really felt that it was really important for us to have the opportunity to listen to what this is all about look into ask the questions about it before this committee chose to move this on to the planning commissions because whether we do it here or do it there is going to happen anyway so everybody understand what we're talking about and clear the air i also would feel a lot more comfortable if i got a positive nod from the water board which we have not been able to get at this point what a board is not really  we haven't taken a vote in support of this and still i really would like everybody to have the opportunity to watch the presentation see the information that's out there ask the questions and then we'll bring this back and we came vote on it at that time so today's meeting is more informational and i would like to ask the members to please note your questions lumens dame goes through the presentation so that we can ask them when she's done after she's done are going to take testimony and then we should have a very nice discussion so with that in mind i'd like to call on mr taylor to get things going here mr taylor up thank you chaired by sir and thank you members for this opportunity to inform you of our our efforts to develop a well hard protection ordinance and we turn over to mr bloom and scene in just a second additionally view with some big picture thoughts of what we're trying to do here we all know that we're dependent on ground water for most of our water needs and i think we can all guess that if water sources get contaminated those sources can't be used which would cause all sorts of problems wells would have to be taken out of service a additional treatment would have to be built et and that could be that could cause these consequences of lack of water services mandatory cutbacks high costs for years so there's a choice before us we can live with the risks and just say well if it happens you know we'll just have to deal with it or we can say let's try to reduce the risks we've looked at the situation and so although the risks are relatively small the consequences are very high and so that leads to a situation where mitigating and trying to prevent issues from happening is usually the action so that's what this ordinance tries to do it says we've got some risk with a high consequence of failure so let's try to reduce those risks by taking some reason or measures are private so that's again the choice we're going to have is do nothing and just live with this risk out there or try to reduce the risk so that is the one the one thing i'd like to leave in everyone's mind is sort of a one way or another decision do something and live with it do something or do nothing and what you're going to see now from has been seen is is the details of what we think are the right things to do to take some action will reduce the risk members this has been a long process and collaboration with the university of hawaii what resources research center and the department of physics and the state department of health safety and what a branch the county what a department and planning department what this program is we have developed this to protect the county's possible wells from contamination and to prevent the need for expensive for expensive treatment whether protection area is the surface and subsurface area surrounding a well through its contaminants could reach the well typically you have ground water flow with the gradient towards the ocean and that's a start well you will impact that flow and start drawing water and contaminants towards the well so the weather protection area could be the entire recharge area or it could be just an arbitrary fixed radius around a well or in our case we have a modeled capture zone based on groundwater flow and particle tracking so some common sources of contamination are leaks and spills from chemical storage industrial processes pesticide fertilizer applications and cesspools and many others so we know that there are multiple and uses that could contaminate our water supply we are reliant on ground water for over seventy percent of our possible supply some areas like here in central maui that's ninety five percent  we use gone water one hundred percent for a portable supply once you have a contaminating event occur due to the slow hydrologic processes is typically years before we detect that contaminant in our in our we forty two different contaminants are organic compounds that are detected in seventy three percent of their public supply so i think can't i think i was lucky so that shows us that even though there are current federal costly more reliable in the long term because we know there are more complex combinations of chemicals coming out of the market and drink the waters are getting stricter so  key steps in developing a well have protection strategy is to delineate your weather protection area your capture sounds to inventory in the cess potential contaminating activities and then develop protection strategy would probably participation in in order to prevent vandalism and tampering that kind of things you don't really want to have any kind of activities going on in that zone except normal well maintenance than the modeled zone b is the area where it would take a water particle two years or less to reach the well this two years on b would address microbial contamination based on their typical survival times in but here in  so you can't tell from this overview that most of these captures zones you have the blue ones is on b and the red lights on c they're quite long and skinny except for the area in central maui where the this is a flat gradient this is where most our wells are located said earlier ninety five percent of that of our supply is from groundwater look at that particular area a little closer later drinking water branch complete their settlement they develop the weather protection program which is the framework or the guidelines to develop protection measures on the local level they provide the financial and technical assistance to the public water systems the partner water supply to do that and they adopt the water standards the drinking water standards are not preventive per se they are really just enforcing maximum contaminant levels after the fact have adequate provisions for groundwater protection this ordinance is modeled upon the e p a over low overlays zoning standards and it's been tailored locally through many community meetings stakeholders planning department zoning administration and legal council of course why this is an overlay zoning is because owning is the only tool where you can actually outright prohibit land use in this case those that are ranked as high risk they tend to a because due to the nature of the activities the types of contaminants are associated with them and the history of contamination so the nine or so remaining uses that are really that could be an overlay zone district works is on the right you have a piece of property where the underlying sewing is partially industrial and residential then you have your well in a will have protection area that spans both of these songs is the actual capture zone for a while a country there's only there is agricultural so you couldn't put in a new plastic production facility because you would need industrial zoning a new landfill could be permitted b so this is the controversial area where we have that where i mentioned a flat gradient it's a large chunk of land because most of our production wells are located here and this is our larger customer base most of the underlying zoning in the capture zones of central maui are designated residential different business and very few light light industrial this bill does not really impact residential uses at all this is a sewer area the business uses are all permitted with mitigating be in peace the industrial zone areas constitute less than one percent of all the properties within so what this bill is really about is to make sure that we know what kind of contaminating activity is what contaminants are around our wells so we are prepared to respond to any contaminating event and to make sure that some mitigating measures are put in place best practices can be structural they are meant to direct contaminants either away from the well protection area mitigate infiltration into soil and water or reduce the volume contaminant the number one tool to make sure that leaks and spills do not reach run where supply is secondary containment these two are above ground storage tanks should not be sitting on bare dirt in our responsible for any on site cleanup the department is responsible if that can time and stop in our groundwater and our rate payers are actually the ones who are they have the burden of paying for the treatment cost so we had twelve or thirteen public meetings over several years and there were of course comments that this bill is too strict is not strict enough there were many concerns and i'm summarizing some of the main ones that we have a  contracted by a case that was independent concerns about impacts on property values case studies and input from other communities that have developed production programs have not found them burned and some also that we really don't have any evidence that property values have been deflated or that it interfered with business development in a community on the other hand all customers and businesses within whether you're located within the characters own or not you benefit from a protected water supply concern about legal challenges and takings overlay zoning is well accepted method throughout the nation to address  th going forward administering any permits would be absorbed by existing staff the grant funding has also be used to do some retrofitting there's not specific provisions that address ground water protection that put us at risk we have some examples of of local failure scenarios including the i don't know who remain nation running in the tens of millions of dollars are the red hill fuel spill and just earlier this year sand island was an above ground storage tank where some secondary containment put a mitigated that  event what about new wells the department has an internal policy for siting new wells away from contaminating activities this bill will not change that supply we really need to protect what we have there but this is really a proactive ordinance this is not looking at penalizing existing operations what's already there we're trying to retrofit existing users are grandfathered in so they're not really impacted by the bill we know the current laws and regulations are still leaving us vulnerable and we have the support from department health an e p a to to do a proactive protection program on the local level we know prevention is always going to be less expensive than trading so we see this bill as a as an insurance to decrease the risk of contaminating our water supply thank you thank you very much members oh you've heard the prison titian and so now we would like to proceed with public testimony if there are no objections thank you very much  folks testimony will be limited to the item on our agenda today if you wish to testify please sign up at the dislocated in the lobby testimony is limited to three minutes and you get an extra minute if you would like to have one so you can conclude just give me a high sign we have established connection to the district offices and to beefier if there are folks out there we will go through each of the sites so i would like albert purchase mr whittier would you like to please come forward and testify study in idaho my primary focus set you h was a ground water modeling for the source water assessment program or the swap this included modeling the will capture zones that are in the proposed ordinance referred to as the wellhead protection overlay districts the proposed ordinance stows restrict or prohibit some activities within the overlay districts and thus justifiable concern has been expressed about and the suitability of the models and methods shoes i have stated my experience but the modeling that you h was supervised by dr r they all cati who has over thirty years experience in research and applied groundwater modeling instrumental in training nearly all the current groundwater modelers in the state of hawaii the modeling code selected were mud flow and mud path well documented and time tested programs developed by the u s g s and the most widely reviewed modeling codes available five states specifically cite mob flow as a model and code for their swap other states have selected other methods since the use of mob flow well concise overlay districts requires considerably more skill and resources this challenge was overcome in hawaii by d u h teaming with you h to do the ground water assessments and the modeling at no cost to the water systems model so accuracy is a value added by model calibration expert reviews and sensitivity analysis all of these approaches have been applied to validate the swa model and to more rigorously tests a model steel way chinua true searches work collaboratively to incorporate the swap models into ongoing groundwater research this allows the model outputs to be tested against real world data to better define the groundwater flow piles in the state of hawaii in conclusion the swap modeling has been done using the best modeling codes available for this type of assessment the models have been calibrated and subjected to expert review and to ensure that the swap groundwater models reflect the best representation of hawaii's hydro geology they are tested in conjunction with ongoing groundwater research at the university of hawaii thank department of health are there any state laws in place well we have many laws in place going from the say tank water branch so we have we actually regulate the safe drinking water act and that looks  we mandate certain chemical analysis be done to confirm the ground water quality we have a sister agency the salt and hazardous waste branch which regulate things like underground storage tanks and wastewater branch which regulates waste water but these branches look at basically separate focuses of interest certain amount of and if i may diverge a bit since i do have experience with the red hill fuel storage facility i actually did a safe drinking water act assessment of all the contaminate chemistry that has been fuel would actually passed the safe drinking water act regulatory compliance for contaminate chemistry so the focus of an overlay district below the the collection area they protection areas quite wide even though and in my memory of the slope in this area is similar so i'm with central mali west maui as though really districts are very long going linear you have ground water flowing from the recharge areas and west hawaii toward the coastline so that  production wells has been pointed out eva so you have a combination of high pumping rate in areas sandwiched between two low permeability formations groundwater scott to come from somewhere  can't come directly from the recharge areas so it's going to come in from margin the margin ns and produce osa large oval capture zones as part of the modeling process we did not do any field work except to do cheap e s o cation on the drinking water wells themselves and look for potentially contaminated to use that were within the model captures on but we did rely upon the wealth of literature that is available primarily u s g s chill logic reports their previous modeling and any other data the been a made available at the state databases such as the water commission no pumping rates deal in our reports and incorporated that into our models and so i guess with that was there something you'd like me to further elaborate on no i think you've explained it i'm not sure i understand it but but thank you for the the explanation the it concerns me that there's little on site testing to be sure that you know to validate the modeling the other question i have and you may not be the one that can answer this but it's noted in the power point that oahu has seventy three percent of their wells contaminated verse are you aware of the level of contamination on in wells on  we have that data and i know that i believe the not a p v than the pili wells at least one or two of those have significant levels of i think human contamination also i believe there are some few minute contamination and some of the upcountry wells i don't have that right at my fingertips but back to the field work ok course any effort is constrained by the budgeting available and that is why we actively collaborate with the university of hawaii they use our models and their studies we take their data back and it is producing field biology that modeling results and i do have well i have one paper the sim press and one that is part of a dissertation thesis that actually demonstrates sexual aberration thank you and you know you're but i do know what compounds fall and that in a stanley those three there besides pesticides petroleum and chlorinated solvents there is one of the one of the big issues here on maui has been oh actually all the neighbor islands is the department of health crackdown on cesspools so it doesn't sound like those organic compounds are on the list are they know is there any any hint of contamination of any of the wells on oahu from cesspools not in the wells but there is significant indications of coastal impact from and that actually has been validated on one study well at least one study here on maui and on more than one study on a walk through that was in one have taken that look for the chemical indicators of waste water and found a good correlation between what the model predicted and those chemical indicators of wastewater along the coast testifier is albert perez followed by rosemary robbins resolution to send the proposed ordinance to the planning commissions for review i'm not sure of the justification for not protecting all wells in the county i have a little bit of experience  from my previous employment about the fact that there is a choice of possibly simpler methods that might be appropriate for other water system well system owners but any way we do support it prevention is worth a pound of cure and protecting the water quality is going to provide both public benefit as well as private benefit for the people who own the land that is protected we're looking forward to working with the department of water supply of the planning commissions and the council as this moves forward thank you thank you very much mr peres members any questions for the testifier mr white you mentioned that there are from an earlier job you had been exposed to simpler methods with those simpler methods this would be from memory mr white i remember there is a numerical modeling there's a hydraulic modeling and there is also just it's basically a distance from the well that's assumed so as a former water thank you very much members any other questions because i'm seeing none thank you this well i'm being yes madam chair our final test fire this morning that has signed up is rosemary rob robin morning everybody i hope that somewhere in the discussion feel the early on after this we'll ask the question and get the answer whether or not this is affiliated with the study that was done sounds like the same categories personnel involved back in zero four and same not the same water director back in those days the same mayor as for now so there's some history that's involved in that and i do remember going to one of the sessions that were held up stairs on the ninth floor and the specialty people that they brought over were from colonial as to live on that island and they only on that island that was a god help us that you ation and they got brought in as the pros so hopefully we need to include that in the history of what you know right here in my we we lived with i did come down and go through the wor one deal and read in there about the federal regulatory laws that affect groundwater and they go from  on so there's a whole lot of history in here and there is a letter that was submitted by a member of the public that is in that and it talks about a number of different things one of them secured a lot of money for us from the fed level coming over and the requirement was that there be a concerned citizen speak for any that money could be released we were not a five zero one c three  the money went to the administration here and just recognizing that a lot of the stuff that we were asking is concerned citizens we were required in order t would get that money for questions that were not answered and when they were answered and we got a chance to go back over the history they were not accurate by way of omission and commission in some cases not all but nonetheless problems let's take a look at them and consider all of those i always want i also want to draw to the public's attention that just a google search is available at our public libraries no cost to be able to go over materials including those that were under wraps during world war two but with a time span from them till now that data is available so feel  free to do that and to just go and look at the people who were here at that time adults who would've lived with responsibility through all of that caring for our families that didn't know a whole lot of stuff that's not kno e and that certainly has an opportunity to affect what goes into the water including the fact that they were driving over in that highclere way area from the marine base  driving jeeps to the end of the gulch as well the batteries still in them and the fuel still in them we didn't know that for a long time now we know it and those were there and cultural areas and we're reaping the havoc from some of that and what happens in the zones when i looked at the maps yesterday i didn't see a whole lot about country involved in that and we haven't been building water catchment up there are no no big dams to catch the water that would be coming if we're not getting it from the ground and that is surface water they are so there are lots of angles that we need to deal with what we have here thank you for your expertise in coming in for that and also from some of the stuff else in the chamber some to testify ok to will ask is there anyone in the gallery who would like to testify who is so moved now that you've heard what you've heard jay would be happy to have you testify  to me check with the district offices to make sure that no one has showed up there that we have missed ok over in let mr lowell know is there anyone there hasn't so without objections to will close public testimony no objection thank you very much so ordered members we have had the presentation and testimony is close before we proceed into our discussion to would like to let you know that i'm very honored today we have some folks that have shown up here and there i'm sure they would not be averse to saying anything if we needed their help i'd like to thank we'll spencer for showing our planning director thank you very much i'd also like to let you know that anders lyons is here today and i'm very delighted that the water board has assigned him pretty much as a liaison to our meetings thank you very much being here today we're trying to work closer together i think it's important that the water board and the water resources committee be working together and i'd like to thank anders for taking that on it's an extra job for him but it's nice to you know that we have this this going on i also would like to note that the deputy water director paul myers he's here thank you very much and we also of course have missed a cushy who snuck in right after we started thank you for being here ok members there any questions or anything that you want to talk about i first of all before we get into that i'd like to as the water director if there is anything that he would like to comment on as we you know we ha question here that i think you might want to comment on and that was mr white's question which i thought was really important when you asked the question about the mo we will see in the status of contaminants in the more we will any comm actually treatment for contaminate for contamination is just a normal operation i think you members any questions or anything what the capital costs were and the operating costs for the really well for the treatment we could try to find out i don't i certainly don't have it with me i don't have a ballpark i'm not sure whether that was a capital improvement project or a lot of this is anything having to with the d c p contamination is covered under the agreement with the i would appreciate if we could get the calculations for those those items because looking under the thirty two sites media and if you take thirty million gallons which that indicates is the us the media and it's only eighty two thousand eighty two thousand gallons per day which is a fairly low producing well isn't it yes that's correct so those numbers seem a little bit skewed and i'd like to know what the capital cost has been for an appeal he and for how mccall poco because as mr taylor stated and we've been told in the past that costs are covered largely by agreement with the chemical companies and made contaminants but i would appreciate getting a sense of what these cuts what the basis of these calculations is i just took  a well and maybe this is too big but well that generates a million and a half gallons and if the capital cost for treatment is two million then the ongoing cost per thousand gallons is not seventy eight dollars it's more like dollars so i just like to get a little clarity on that from the department chair i'll be happy happy to get that step for we'll look into it and work with the  before you move on to that question i think it's blue and see might want to give some description of where these numbers came from these are national numbers these are not this graph is not county of maui costs and i also just want to share that g c happens to be one of the cheapest forms of treatment for certain things that it can treat there's no moving parts there's no electricity because we build a big vat fill it with granular activated carbon and run the water through it there's all sorts of contaminated contamination that that is not adequate treatment treatment plant would have to be built which has you know chemical addition and sludge that has to be generated etc etc so i think to explain this graph warmest movements you may be able to add some clarity to your your question if you would  stripping so this very they all vary in size as you noted and that's one of our main concerns because looking at these are pumping rates for typical sometime well is ten times larger than the sm them occur we note that drinking water standards are getting stricter so we're more concerned about the cost of or on the known cost of treatment technologists that we are not prepared to identify or treat for couldn't read hilland sandile and you know makes mention more groundwater specific protection is need it to address gaps and that's from the department of health what is it that we're doing today to address if there if there are the gaps this proposed bill was based specifically on looking at the regulatory framework for federal and state and county regs and see what where are there adequate provisions already in place for example there are state department holes regulate underground storage tanks we don't want to duplicate any existing provisions that there above ground storage on the other hand is could be regulated as a hazardous substance by e p a or if it's storage of a certain amount six hundred sixty gallons or more of a certain substance but there really aren't any provisions to make sure that a what we are concerned about a regulated substance meaning something that's covered under the safe drinking water rules is located right next to wellhead so that's an example of a gap we looked at the wastewater septic systems although we don't have new  something in play is this a state have something in place and do we have something in your day so that we are addressing this so called gaps or is this a only means that will provide that you member carol i think you hit the nail right on the head is there are gaps that we're not addressing because we have no mechanism to address them and so this ordinance is our recommendation of what we should do to address those exact caps that you you mentioned so it has a state have any the feds have any means of addressing these gaps and then will it take take us additional manpower to should we put this bill and please what the state has testified previously missy to as the head of the safe drinking water branch who's testified you're here at the board in that the state's view is  of the support this and they provided grants funding for us to get this far because the only way to fill in the gaps is with local zoning they believe that the best way to deal with the actual situation is through municipal agencies who have zoning control because they know the federal government or the state has zoning authority which is they believe the only place you can actually regularly something like this so that's why quite definite yes the planning director was in the audience and we worked with him on their side and i'm sure he'd be more than willing to come up in and give any more member would you like  could you please members objections thank you i was the question was ok because this is a district because this is a layer another layer on top of existing zoning yes it would apply so it would be an overly over the the commission and what have you and you know that's ok i just have my own kind of right when it comes to the zoning in i'm not familiar if overlay maps have been developed from has yet yeah i know they have been from our right ok thank you thank you mr spence and thank you mr bill or any other questions miss camilla this time thank you members do you have many other thank you chair i would also be interested in learning where the sites are that if this is a national and national study if thirty two's thirty two sites from one and thirty two sites is it thirty two sides total yes ok because i think it it's important for us to know where these sites are because it occurs to me that they would pick sites that are near industrial and heavy industrial uses to begin with so i would just like to know what what the location is and how close by there are industrial uses because we have very limited industrial uses on maui so i i just i'm kind of uncomfortable with using a national study that might have very little bearing to areas with small pumps and that's why i was saying i'm more concerned for our pumps tend to be larger so that our impact is sort of somewhere in between a large metropolitan area and rural even comparing it to one who is different because even though they're they're more urbanized the type of contaminants that they are treating for the cost is mostly based on historic agriculture use so you  done presentations to the board of what is in any idea are they when they may come forward in support or not support whatever the conclude it or have they made any look thank you we we've given the board of water supply presentations but he was a little over a year ago and that ended up with a recommendation not to  proceed at the same time we sent the bill cure it we are it's in this committee so we've gone back to the board and we've had discussions with the board more presentations more in depth questions and answers with the board over the past several months  just at the last board meeting we discussed it again and to mirror what said at the beginning of the meeting they're still discussing it we want to use this opportunity as just general education we recognise that nothing's moving out of this committee yet the board understands that we are asking them to take a position on it so that the council can see what that is before moving it out of here so we're really trying to deal with both this committee and the board simultaneously and recognising that there is this discussion between the two thank you and thank you chair for bringing this up for it for the education purposes thank you thank you mr miller what i'm trying to do is you know it's difficult to make decisions without information and so i've been trained very hard to bring as much information as that can so that we can make a decision and i know that you know in making our decision we would certainly like to see what position the board of what taken but they are looking for more information too and so i would just wait until we feel comfortable i don't want us to rush in and do something and you know if nobody is comfortable with it it's not a good thing to do so thank you members any further questions is to work i have one other question you know the these well have protection areas are as as the question indicates or as a question i asked earlier indicates that there are very wide disparity between sizes and linear versus a big balloon the question in my mind is i was been told that under under each island there's a lens of water and i was looked at it you know maybe erroneous lee as a big pool of water that rises as it goes closer to the center of the island and tapers off as it gets closer to the ocean so my question is if this if this is a big pool of water  drawing you know we're putting straws into a drawing out of does it really matter where the water came from give you a non ph d answer because i've asked if that's what i and that's what i need so let's just take a swimming pool with straws all through it just like your example and on one end we fill it with cork which is porous but water has a hard time getting through co and the middle we fill it with marbles where water flows through marbles really easily so even though the straws are in there if you draw straws of the core out of the cork that water is going to suck through very slowly over in the marbles it's going to come through really quickly so my understanding from the hydrogen ologists is that an area like where we are now the for is more like the marbles flows really freely other areas because of the soil it's more like cork were doesn't flow as freely so it takes longer so i think you know listening to what mr whittier said i want to speak for him but that's essentially i think what he was saying about the narrow versus the wide is it's the soil itself that's different the water is still there but it moves through soil at different speeds based on the properties of the soil so  the straws go down way beyond the soil that we see so are you suggesting that the courts and marbles are different just off my head a few hundred feet and actually you can roughly compute that because the thickness of the lands is equal to approximately forty one times the ground water elevation and you can find that data on the internet so if the ground water elevation was ten feet the thickness would be four hundred ten feet or it would extend forded feet below sea level ok so we're going down that far to pull the water out i would think that the geology the original geology is relatively similar on both sides of the central maui comparison well i can understand central different because that's all much more alou veal than it is volcanic when i'm having a hard time with it as two sides of the same volcano with wells at similar levels going down into marbles on one side and cork on the other ok dutchy you have the overlay districts that you're concerned about in front of you so which wells were you particularly looking at and supplied can actually recall the specific wells we have the ones on the north east of which is map number two and you know the well name there  located on the same mountain but basically on opposite sides right now and on the west side of the west my mountain groundwater is going to flow directly from the recharge areas to the coast b and to bring up dave analogy there's very little cork in that path once you get the center of a mountain discharge points in the ocean so basically a straight shot you go to map number three you still have that big oval cork in the center of the west my mountain but now you also have a big cork wedge fronting a harbor and coming inland the rock which is the marbles is where we get most of our permeability marbles are going out to the sides of where the well they are for so therefore to meet the demands of the well we've got a rather than the straight  i feel much more comfortable if we had done some field work in there we drilled in these areas to see if it's corker marbles well actually that's part of our leadership search and as it has been drilled in that area and we can produce the  a picture's worth a thousand words a series of pictures or potentially an animation to demonstrate what i'm trying to explain here with only limited success it has nothing to do with the teacher thank you to do with the student ok thank you chair thank you and thank you very much oh yeah these technical issues are very difficult to explain to the people anyway any further questions in the members seeing non members views that you know we've done what we needed to do today i would like to thank everyone who has participated today especially when i think miss women's team thank you very much for your work on the presentation think the department of health for being here today i really appreciate it and everyone who has been a resource and i'd like to thank the staff also their hard work and that we have completed the work on our agenda today so that we will adjourn this meeting the chair would like you to know that we will not be meeting in october it's not because we're going on vacation week oh did we would normally meet is the week where chamber will be unavailable because we're doing some improvements in here i'm not really sure what the from and but they're going to the chamber needs to be worked on and so our next meeting is tentatively scheduled for november fourth for those of you who like to keep track of when this committee will be meeting so without more further business will adjourn the meeting meeting is adjour