everyone welcome to this evening's regularly scheduled meeting of the home city council when this seemingly warm comparatively at least spring night for the sun was shining were appreciative for those who have come into chambers this evening to be a part of the meeting and for those watching at home we appreciate your participation from that location as well let's have a roll call to make sure we have a quorum to conduct business please call to board here to sui peter birch lord we are meeting today to conduct matters of business guider hearts in our minds in the spirit of fairness right thought and speech impart your supreme wisdom upon our activities so that our fears me reach a successful conclusion thank you for being our source of guidance today and always amen i pledge allegiance to the flag of the united states of america and to the republic for which it stands one nation under god indivisible with liberty and  all thank you ana there are paper copies of this evening's agenda located in the rack in the rear of chambers tonight also if you're at home or watching this from somewhere far or if you have an electronic device with you in chambers tonight you may log on to the city's web page in there find not only a copy of the agenda for tonight but also a copy of all of the background material that council has reviewed in preparation for this evening's meeting city of holland dot com is the spot go to the calendar section today's date and you'll see all that information about this evening's meeting as you look at the agenda you'll note there are a variety of items that have an asterisk next to them these are items that are on the consent agenda what that means is that we believe that these are relatively routine items and our intention is to handle all of the items collectively regardless of where they show up on the agenda with one motion one vote all together now we may think that their routine or maybe maybe we thought they were routine you may not think so so what we're going to do is first i will ask the deputy city clerk to run through the items that are presently on the consent of gender and then i will give the opportunity for anyone to remove an item from consent and we'll talk about that in a second but first why don't we get an idea of what's presently on the consent agenda tonight item five to approve the minutes of close session to help march fifth regular special and close meeting held march nineteenth special study in closed session held march twenty six i am sixty excuse the absence of council member to three alive in aid to accept and file executed outs of office i am fortini a one to approve an amendment to the f injured engineering service agreement for additional services related to work for the wastewater treatment improvement projects in the total amount of one million one hundred forty one dollars and one million one hundred  forty one six hundred sixty five dollars pending approval as to form by the city attorney item fourteen a two to approve offers of just compensation for properties currently located in the area of the home for the new energy per power plant item fourteen a three two approving professional services agreement with hydrocarbon technology engineering inc on a time and material basis to provide engineering services for the new material gas fired combined cycle power plant gas supply pipeline for an estimated cost total cost of seven hundred fifty thousand dollars pending approval as to form by the city attorney item four hundred eighty five to accept a grant of utility easement for underground fiber optic cable located at thirteen fifty one way really road from owners thirteen fifty one l c pending acceptance by the board of public works board of directors on their april seventh two thousand and fourteen meeting in approval s to for the city attorney and fourteen a six to approve a facility encroachments agreement with c s six transportation payment in the amount of twenty four thousand seven hundred fifty dollars license and insurance fee pending acceptance of the meeting april summons an approval by the board of public works to order directors and also approval as to form by the city attorney item fourteen the one to refer claims filed against the city to the city's insurance carrier and city attorney for consideration item fourteen the two to authorize the deputy city clerk to sign a grant agreement with the state of michigan bureau of elections for upgraded election equipment and mailed a grant agreement on behalf of the city item fourteen the three to adopt a resolution approving a new microbrewery located at one o two south river avenue presented by the michigan liquor control commission and to authorize the deputy city clerk to force that resolution to the m l c c item fourteen one point one to schedule a public hearing for the regular city council meeting wednesday april sixteenth to obtain citizen comment on the annual action plan in the proposed use of fiscal year two thousand and fifteen c d b g entitlement funds i fourteen one point two to approve the services proposal from disability network lakeshore in the amount of three thousand dollars funded from the fiscal year two thousand and fourteen budget subject to approval as to form by the city attorney item fourteen  one point three to approve the proposed administrative plan for reorganization of the community neighborhood services department item fourteen one point four to approve the fee schedule revised revision for the keeping of backyard chickens an dollars and souter construction bit at a cost of nine thousand seven hundred forty eight hours and nine cents to insulate the attic of city hall and reject the single ventilation bid from allied mechanical and that this project is to be funded from the municipal capital improvement fun i had import teenie five point three to adopt a resolution study in a public hearing for the april sixteenth council meeting on the four twenty five agreement with how in charter township relating to the gas plant and then the deputy city clerk post no to subside meeting and item fortini five point four to approve the schedule changes for the may two thousand and fourteen council meetings  wednesday may seventh will be cancelled wednesday may fourteenth study session will be cancelled and we will hold a regular meeting seven p m for me twenty first and a regular meeting on may twenty eighth with the study session five thirty in the training room right there you have it that's what's on consent we're going to ask her to read again the joke works about three times a year and you want number two this year so look for on more time if you can find it to get a granola bar now so that is what is on consent and the plan is that we'll take all of those items and approve them collectively meaning that if you want an item separately discussed i would ask that you step forward to the podium tell us what number it is and we'll take it off and put it in its ordinary spot on the agenda would anyone care for the audience to remove an item from the consent agenda how about council request two items be removed number fourteen he one point four the fee schedule bechard chickens and fourteen two point one the phone de sion grant wonderful job bears repeating the schedule changes are very good that is remove anyone else seeing none what is the pleasure of council on the amended consent agenda items move by  parents yes mere dykstra yes motion passes all right thank you that then takes us down to it's not technically yet a special award or presentation  but and i can't seem to find it right at the moment here unfortunately we have we got great news today that alright it's gone we got great news today that we were the recipients of a grant mr city manager might have the start of the meeting with more people we haven't put them to sleep yet and then if you're watching the meeting once you give us sort of a  news we got on this this other grant that came in today thank you mayor this effort actually began about four or five years ago with the sustainability commission of the city what we learned today is the energy and education outreach of florida that have staff in boston and washington d c and we were one of nine communities awarded a sixty five thousand dollar grant for the purpose of working on planning for this estate a million student concert with the community energy plan and the efforts of those other institutions in our community we are one of nine as i said other communities received awards by memory were san diego actually founded now so i can list like boston buffalo cleveland providence rhode island memphis indianapolis salt lake city and san diego and then one that says holland michigan because they had to put the state on thank you ryan for all of your work in coordinating that effort with with hope in with others and i would note and will be more of a press release that goes out on this but just came in and it's too good a company to pass up i would note that our award of sixty five thousand is more than what cleveland got is equal to what boston got is more than indianapolis more than providence more than salt lake and more than san diego so how do you like that pretty good news graduations that then takes us down to a couple of well three actually public hearings tonight all dealing with adoption of ordinances the first one is for dash three the pet fall in backyard chicken ordinance and i believe that flew from the community neighborhood services department of the city will come up and give us the briefest of introductions on this item since i suspect anyone who is here for that item pretty well knows what we're talking about good evening mark good evening  section four point three of the city code which deals with the keeping of animals in the city and what you have in front of you here tonight is actually we're going to be looking at option one that up on the screen council members who reminded her remember it's your last meeting you looked at a couple different options that had some different items in there as to how you could approach the regulation of back your chicken so your last meaning you did decide to move forward with having a first reading for option number one so very quickly i'll just go through those again what is included in that and option number one would be to allow for one chicken duck or goose to be allowed as a pet with no permit required so that would be a part of that other components of that option is that people can have backyard chickens but only on a noncommercial basis they can have backyard chick for the production of eggs in meat only for them the property on which the chickens are kept so it's not to be a commercial operation also included there would be a sliding scale that would allow anywhere from a two to six birds and  the the amount of birds is kind of tied to the amount of property one may have so the way that this article option is set up that any residential property in the city that's less that's less than a half acre in size would be allowed to have anywhere from two to four birds and then if one had from one half acre up to an acre in size you'd be allowed to have five birds and if you had a property size or larger you'd be allowed to have six birds and absolutely no roosters would be permitted in in this option whatsoever outdoor slaughtering of chickens would be prohibited and kind of inclusive is in this is if people are going to have egg laying hens they do only have a productive life for you know a certain amount of time a couple few couple or few years and it's going to recognize that in those chickens are probably going to go in the pot and going to be dinner at night so but we're saying please do what you got to do with your chicken inside your house or garage another item here is that coops need to be covered and have a fenced enclosure the romane of chickens would be allowed but only if supervised by the own the owner and other item would be that the coop enclosure for the chickens need to be in the rear yard only and then we have some setbacks here you have a minimum set back of five feet from the property line and also you need to be at least twenty five feet from any neighboring house additionally the coop enclosure would have a maximum area of eighty square feet so like an eight by ten area and be allowed to be eight feet in height the construction of the coop in the enclosure must be of quality construction materials must be constructed in a way to prevent the harboring of of mice in other types of rodents  any food that's kept outside for the feeding the chickens must be in sealed containers so roads can't get into that we would also be a rich requiring that people raise their chickens and keep them in compliance with the in compliance with the state generally accepted standards for the raising of egg laying hens and the state a department of agriculture has those those are all avail online for people to look up and follow and in additionally we would be requiring if someone has two to six chickens that permanent is needed and i believe you'll be coming come circling back to that later on your agenda so that's what we have here right now there is one other item that has come up well it it's come up but it's really kind of been discussed before council members may remember that we had a young lady with her a father and mother and other kids that tends to muir meetings in so young a girl by the name of ashley lorraine and she has a requested again that she be allowed to raise chicks ok and certainly our ordinance the way that it's written could allow her to have you know up to well whatever the size of their property is and i don't know what the size of the property is but may allow them to have x amount of chips but i suspect that she would she would like to be able to raise more checks than that so one other item for your potential discussion if you so choose maybe to see once if you want to have another have an exception in here that would allow  chicks to be allowed on site until the age of four to five weeks old and then they would presumably would need to be given away and i know w particular situation she's she's talked with council in indicated that the critter bar will be taking her chicks now this obviously would apply to anybody who might want to raise these two so  so but i just i throw that out there for your consideration there's one other item also and i believe todd is probably going to be raising this but we kind of talked about this  in in a way before that if you are in or taining looking at the role mean or allowing the romane of chickens that it may be a good idea to to add in there some language that where the chickens roam that it be in a fenced area so that would maybe not allow somebody to allow chickens to roam in once front yard and just freely kind of go off range so to say  restrict the use of corrugated metal in any of our other excess restructures i'm looking at the way we wrote the materials language here and just wondering if we use that same language say for a garden shed and other accessory structures on a property corrugated metal i m going to look towards fill i mean look here we are we kind of saying that that's not a good material it appears to me that we're saying that's material that we don't want used on kusin ironically the photo you showed us i think in your ordinances so i suppose if you'd like to take that of we can take that out will will probably deal potentially with that issue in the in the post question here the questions from mark nancy place as to how long i do we have the puppy factor with our two dogs ordinance up to four months you're allowed to have any number of puppies ok and the four to five week cat off for chickens is based on chicks develops in your worser well really the rationale for that is that there was information supplied by actually in her parents that that's who long they would intend to keep the chicks and then they would move on with them so more for a shorter time but it's smaller real estate in panama yes ok else also yes i'm sorry yeah i thought to questions mark let's say that a person has a rental property and the renters are interested in raising chickens does the secondly if the person who had the chicken coop etc decides to get out of the business do we have anything in your talks about the terri downer of the limitation of the  set up or is it there forever we don't address that to the removal of those facilities should they stop so well that's not the point is this we talk about the you know follow being included in this ordinance and then we talk about not being able to slaughter chickens so i think if someone had a good choice and wanted to slaughter the goose outside that would not be a prohibited activity end of the ordinance which i'm sure is not the intent of what we're trying to accomplish here so i would suggest that a mere drafting a situation of after we list all of the various follow putting in parentheses a defined term quote unquote chickens would solve that problem going forward basis but the city attorney can probably also deal with the drafting issue like that but i think we're go want to define the term because we're talking about a variety of fall in one part of the ordinance and then only other restrictions dealing with specifically chickens in other parts of the ordinance i think you're looking for so point of d there more than one would only apply to the allowance to keep more than one only applies to chickens i believe the witness orbits reads all right it could be but definition we may want to look at that issue and other questions for former all right we have an item of that which proved on first reading that for us that is what is before us and mark described it as the leave the option that was listed on the screen or still is listed on your screen  would the audience and the audience care to participate in a public hearing of this item a council rules permit up to five minutes per person to address an item we have a little system whereby you'll see a green lights directly between us once you begin speaking when it gets to yellow that means you have a minute left of your five minutes and when it gets to read it means that your five minute time period has expired cultural simply require that you state your name and residential address for the record and i will declare the public hearing open on this item good evening and welcome thank you my name is constance words injuries live to ninety nine west eighteenth street and now i've been hearing you know different things about the consideration of raising chickens and the the only issues you know that i am concerned about and i don't know if you have already it is living in a small lot in a city and having the ability to raise up to six chickens have you address the issues of noise smal and chickens roaming on other people's property mark you're not going to go far why don't you stay up here and you'll be called upon i suspect in fair measure the ordinance as proposed if the parcel is under half an acre which probably would apply in the more of this downtown part of the city then it is up to four chickens if it's half acre to an acre then up to five chickens and if you're over an acre then it's up to six chickens so there's a bit of a sliding scale in terms of the property size there is a confinement requirement if the chickens are to be roaming in the backyard they have to at least be confined and if you would your other question was well  have to be kept under control or they're going to be ordered any provisions to keep the smell from church coming i would say that a couple of things in play one is there are requirements that the chickens cannot be kept within a certain distance of other adjacent properties as well as other structures on another's property and that's part of the issue to not have it essentially on a neighbor's lot line secondly no roosters are allowed which are that the noisiest of the bird so i understand and the third thing is that it would still be subject to all the same nuisance ordinances that otherwise would exist what is it yes exactly and no is as well yes as i know there are noise ordinances against keeping of bird animals including birds is very is no use go and i mean there certainly is the noise ordinance absolutely and nothing here would exempt these particular items from the noise ordinance and of course the chickens if you had a  anyone else care to address council on this site good evening and welcome good evening my name is my name is dana ask us and i reside at five nine seven azalea avenue i've written a few emails back and forth and may and many of you may have heard my interest in keeping a little bit larger number of chickens we are on a double lot and it's my understanding of one time that that lot could have been split into a second home could have been built on it were a family of nine and we would like to keep a little bit larger number of chickens so that we have a sufficient number of fresh eggs for us that would be six to eight chickens ideally with being on a double lot we have a very very large backyard it's point six acres so with a sliding scale we could keep five but if there were two homes situated on that same lot my understanding is we could keep four and then the second home could keep four so i'm hoping that that consideration would be maybe we could keep six or eight having the same number of or the same property that two homes would share it's all that was my concern that was my my whole home thank you thank you very much public hearing is still open on this item happening in just this process i am interested in and having some chickens i grew up in maine i believe that holland is a great community that's been recognized for a lot of different things  i do believe that this just shows they were progressive area that is just considering other things instead of just having kind of a closed minded attitude about it but i had lots of things going through my head but i really floor again to approve it let's just do that for fun we need a motion on the floor need a motion please to move by the mayor pro tem support supported by de boer all right do we have any other comments or offers of amendments that anyone would care easy paragraphs numbered seven and i would move that we amend that paragraph to read as follows all covered enclosures sh constructed in such a way as to prevent rats mice or other rodents from being harbored underneath or within the walls of any closure and the next sentence would begin by reading the enclosure sh constructed in a workman like manner the last sentence to read to the coop in pen must be completely enclosed with a top and or cover so we would be deleting the words the use of corrugated metal fiberglass sheet metal plastic tarps scrap lumber or similar materials is prohibited all right that day i think that's fairly clear as to what you're trying to accomplish that is offered as an amendment by our colleague councillor brooks trace their support for it the issue of corrugated metal him in some circumstances they can be regarded as ever as tacky material or you know not an appropriate material for a residential area but  you'll find that material used in commercial areas i was writing through the north side of town actually saw a whole home side with this material so i think what we might construe as inappropriate materials could very well be used in this particular kind of construction very appropriately and i would add to that recycled materials can often be used in a very appropriate and so hopefully that portrays the intent of what we're trying to get very good thank you any other discussion on that otherwise we'll call for a vote on the hoekstra amendment number one please call the rol yeah i mean i knew a little bit is that the particular paragraph you and i discussed i think it was a paragraph for was going to be hurting him one or you know was in paragraph four  n so after the word enclosures i would like this paragraph to include if with in a fully fenced side and or rear yard and where we insert those words i believe is after the in that last sentence at closure so enclosure if with any fully fenced side and or rear yard and if supervised by a person in the immediate vicinity of chickens write to me understand what the amended being offered it states is there is support for it support supported by the roaming chickens i'm suggesting that that that is only allowed if indeed the property has a fully enclosed side or rear yard ok good got any other questions comments yes mayor take strong yes motion passes as amended all right the whiteman amendment to is incorporated into the proposed ordinance and todd i believe you have another one you want to offer you have this is specific set back i'm and karate five foot setback related to adjacent property line please when you're saying ten instead of five please all right that's the nature of the proposed amendment is there support for it would help with that in my opinion right in the other discussion on that comes from birch yeah this is the one good it really in leaning on my own childhood experience  you're talking about a high level of ammonia and chicken waste and in so that i'm taking what i can get in terms of removing it from a neighboring property line if it all possible i'm not suggesting that it's going to eliminate it altogether but it needs the further one is removed from it unless i get a super sniffer i think anything a little i'm just offering a little bit of relief but i think they'd still be able to locate even on a very narrow in the center of their yard in the well you'd be in the center of their rear yard ten feet set back you know and i think you'd be doable but every every lot is go how do you how would you intend to interpret that i guess as well as the the covered enclosures and in the coops where the chickens have to be kept you are only allowed in the rear yard right but we are but it says shall be no closer than five right with a change yes ok so that's what is proposed before us with the amendment and the final discussion otherwise please call the roll on the amen for for the right yes which means it fails all right so fail all right we have a young cadet here in the audience to see evening he is getting a civics lesson in full tonight order to pass any sort of amendment or any ordinance we need five votes and and we did not get five votes on that in fact that it tied it for and therefore fails all right i believe the mayor pro tem had an amendment he wished to offer yes  i would like to offer an amendment with regard to a lot size and number of birds which is in paragraph two and i would propose that in lots that are less than half acre that we maintain that maximum number for i would propose that if a lot is greater than a half an acre we would allow up to eight rights to two categories basically yes all right that is the motion offered by the mayor pro tem is their support for  number of allowable parcels in the city we have residential lots that are less than half an acre in size a total number of seven thousand two hundred nineteen parcels for parcels that are larger than a half an acre we have a total of seven hundred thirty six parcels so this this would not necessarily allow for a huge number of areas where a larger number would be allowed and if we if you break down that last category into the three tiered proposal that we had in front of us under the original ordinance i think it breaks down to about five hundred plus or minus lots that are up to an acre and only about  two hundred twelve lots that are greater than one acre so i think the i think the number is the potential for mass numbers is pretty insignificant if we go to the to the amended scale all right thank you anyone of us comments otherwise we are talking weeks and would that require then a permit or you can just have to explain you can just have two puppies have to have a permit or not now they did ok so i guess i would just  second sport all right we have sport now please go ahead anyway so yeah that she could have ten chicks and then keep them for four to five weeks and then deals with non permitted requirements it's all permitted so i'm guessing i was assuming that then my second question is are you asking for adolescents chickens only or here i can see this coming back in a couple of your son who wants to have their little thing of ducklings and now it's not permitted all right to get cancer or complication just to question the n c are you talking about just this one girl or are we talking about anybody who wants to do the same as what ashley wishes to do but i don't think we can pass an ordinance for one girl one person so he in ashley amendment because it was her request i just and i guess we could call this whole backyard chicken ordinance how foggy ordinance place you know what you're saying anybody in the city of holland could raise chicks whenever they wanted to but only until whatever the reasonable time is for a chick to leave its mast or be given away or got so i'm thinking four to five weeks then that must be a michigan state university idea that actually check time will see yes on parents no matters yes motion passes all right six to two so it is now part of the proposed ordinance are there any other amendments to be offered any further discussion on the or birch yes fantasy yes white man yes yes mir dykstra yes motion passes seven yes one no ok there you go takes effect in twenty one days excellent thank you to move on then to the second adoption of ordinance item it's section one hundred ten i'm sorry one thousand dash ten which is a graffiti removal ordinance i believe sue harder is going to give us a very brief introduction very brief introduction of this matter since  yet again his newest grandson is a boy arthur nelson the third so regulations to like all of the family and you get to follow that suit but here i don't know if i can follow baby chicks but i'll try to  thank you we have asked council to declare a nuisance in that we would like to be able to once notifying owners that are feeding needs to be removed we would like to be able to go remove graffiti from property owners who do not remove graffiti on their own right now our process is that we notify owners we try to get in contact with them and find out what their plans are to remove graffiti if they don't make any contact with us you'll see a little chart here and i apologize if the graphics aren't to kill a good because one thing i'm not particularly good at is doing doing graphics but it's our curfew the profit procedure is that we either get reports from the the police department our staff observes graffiti out in the community we enter into into our b s in a system we send a five day letter asking property owners to remove graffiti i'm sorry how do i go back thank you we go out and do the inspection to see if her feeding has been removed we try to make contact with the homeowner at that point that the graffiti has been removed then we close the complaint graffiti has not been removed then we try to contact a neighborhood group or make some other contact with the homeowner because the important part of what we're trying to do here is get the graffiti removed so we're asking coun if you important part of what we're trying to accomplish here is to get the graffiti removed and if you go back up into the ordinance   the what we're asking you to do basically is give us the ability to go on the property and cover the graffiti and if we don't get any response from the owner to cover the graffiti and send them a bill where necessary where we've had no contact with them now this was a recommendation to you from the neighborhood improvement khamenei i recognize that  it's controversial from the perspective of somebody who is taking a look at this and saying well you're you know potentially you know taking somebody who's been the victim and charging them for removing the graffiti i guess much in the same way that if somebody breaks your window you still have to fix it thank you i'm taking a look at the ordinance right now and one of the things that we're asking  do is declare graffiti as a nuisance so that we can go back and abate it in the reason we want to do this is because if you don't remove graffiti quickly then someone else will come by and put graffiti over it it's a nuisance in the community it makes the community look bad and the key to us is removing graffiti about ninety percent of the people who are victims of graffiti quickly cover graffiti up we're not trying to punish people we're trying to keep the community looking good we work very well with the existing nonprofit community groups to get graffiti covered up we have on some occasions found that some people just tend to ignore the graffiti and we think it's important enough that we want to have the ability to go in and cover the graffiti council has seen fit over the last few years to give us and i emphasize a very small budget and a part time person who will go  and cover up for phoebe when we can't get it or we can get the permission of the property owner to go in and cover it up right now we have had a problem getting some people to comply which is why we're asking council to adopt this ordinance to allow us to go in and cover her feeding when we can't get the cooperation of the property owner to do so ok any questions for staff and here's an example of some graffiti that we had staff cover in section b of the ordinance the definition of graffiti states that it will be a marker mark applied basically to summarize on any structure surface by a person other than the owner or someone authorized by the owner ok so somebody comes on your property without your permission and that's profane so if i get crazy on the side of my crotch i can color but if somebody else comes for the last couple years there hasn't been hardly any graffiti you know and pretty down and when it has nobody when i have gone back there and i seen something painted a square or something but the city has never contacted me about graffiti and never contacted me about painting it out or sent me any kind of information about them removing it they just take up  whatever paint they haven't blotted out which doesn't bother me but i have never been charged store it or anything like that so i'd like to know why all of a sudden it's changing many times i've had graffiti and it made me really may i do you know i went out there and i took my own spray cans and i wrote you know things like well haven't got anything else better to do get a job and you know whatever cans pain i had in the house which might have been a little of inflammatory that some of the kids that i knew were doing it's a don't do or oh screw she gets mehad you know so anyway  i just don't know why all of a sudden the property owners being held responsible for being the end allies you know it's going to more or less take that it's first of all i don't think graffiti is a nuisance i think it's vandalism i think it's a crime anybody that spray paints on anybody else's house or or does anything to it whether it's the back of the graduate the front door or whatever it's not a nuisance it's crime and i think to just have the city sit down here and send out some notices and so forth and collect some fines is kind of like taking it out of the rail of what how it needs to be addressed i know that a lot of the graffiti that surround it has been considered gang related but i think that that kind of group feeding needs to be dealt with by the penal system and not just send somebody a letter and take the onus off the criminal element of it and put it on the homeowner and i think that kind of is is a dangerous really to just say ok you got graffiti and never all graffiti is not game related either so  i don't know how you can even define it if somebody has got it on there and they don't put it on there and they don't care if it's fair or not how can you come and say we got to take it off you know if somebody has done it on you know in my garage and i big deal you know it's in the alley i don't go back there but whoever comes by and paints it out and i think i've seen it is people that i've seen from the city in the summer time you know like summer employees and things like that come by there and pain and i don't know if they're employed or the volunteers or what but what is the problem with the way that we're doing it now nobody is you know at least in my hands since nobody's ever notified me about graffiti and nobody's ever charged me her told me i had to cover it up or gave me a twenty five dollar ticket for not covering it up or or charged me to come out and in pain and in a little square or whatever and and now all of a sudden i'm going to somebody spray paint and i'm a graduate i have to go out there and  make it look really nice you know better than just a little square that the city's been doing in beer the expanse of it and you know be penalized because somebody vandalized me i guarantee you that if that if i have to go out there and sick dealing with it in any way shape or form then i'm going to have to have an officer come to my host and investigate every time thank you good evening my name the signee johnson i live it to ninety two was eighteenth street and i live in the us core neighborhood i can understand the city wanting to make an ordinance because graffiti does not do anything for my property value had i been out looking for a house to buy and i was to drive down the alley and see griffey it would be a neighborhood that i've considered not buying property and because it is looks cared for and if it looks on cared for  vite more people to be destructive and it's just going to deteriorate i don't want to see my neighborhood deteriorate i don't want to have my property value go down and it does not do good for tourism because who is going to come see a city that's all full of defeating they come to see our tulips they come to their pocket park say come to see a pretty town and so therefore if we do not have a pretty town for them to see we lose our tourists our property taxes go up and our property values go down and i don't want to see is trying to lose joy so we need to address the graffiti and i agree with misfortunes over that it is a crime but it is something that needs to be addressed  my concern of this ordinance is what do we do with people that live in homes that are mentally or physically challenged or are too old to take care of the graffiti or are on vacation or we have snowbirds what are we going to do with this ordinance to make a way for them not to get into trouble because if you're elderly you can't take care of it or if you're mentally or physically challenged you have no way to fix this you might not even know that's going on you might not even get your your mail or if your are snowbird you might not leave affording address and that's just collecting at the post office so what are we going to do for the people that  unable to take care of this within the five days and so that's what my question is outside of that you know i agree we need to remove the graffiti it just it just all it does is invite more coffee and like i some of the others up here i think a lot of the the the negative that's being expressed i went into that meeting a lot of the same things just like my house is getting tattooed and now you're making me pay for it it seemed a bit harsh but sue said something interesting and you know i think i've come to understand it is that ninety percent of the time things work out pretty well in this is really about how it's all about graffiti gangs and bad things and it's amazing how many when i spend a lot of time outside the city during the day and we talk about how and then they support how's it going to time but it's amazing how many comments are about gangs gangs and how we have this reputation and so to the lady's comment the last lady this book i think when we when that rare rare occurrence happens where something does get tattooed or graffiti and we do have a situation where the owner or someone who unfortunately lives there just doesn't care just can't take the steps just won't do it it is a doesn't happen all the time but when it does it does have to be taken care of because that's a community interest and i think that has to be taken care of and somehow somebody has to be responsible for that but i also noticed in this chart is that places like west corner neighbors and there's five or six of these kind of working as asians now through the neighborhood connections through the city's partnership with good samaritan ministries they're also on the chart because we can go to them as well in that neighborhood and and maybe step in and take care of those people that you mentioned about who maybe snowbirds maybe not but i do think we're building a fabric good of a community network here that it will help take the harshness out of this ordinance and against there's a lot of discretion that has to happen here i have a lot of confidence in sue and her department being able to exercise discretion and looking at these cases individuals so really this ordinance to me is about that there is small percentage you just don't just don't care i don't just you know there's always always people who you know we just don't want to play ball so we do have to have some teeth to be able to go in there and do that and i think this is what that's all about so i went to it reluctantly but i but i'm supportive of what we're talking about here and their comments counsel is another gentleman i wanted to speak i think did close the public hearing but if you care to if you care just please good evening welcome good evening i'm a row garcia i live at two sixty eight west fifteen and i'm also the program director for west corner avers no i i definitely wanted  o i think i'm in support along the lines of what mr peters said in regards to this ordinance and it is something that that we i would say in our neighborhood in the west corps strive to address i mean  is a nuisance it is vandalism it's something that you know we try to take care of as as quickly as possible and we work with sue harder and and the city and the police department and neighbors just to become aware of you graffiti and how to address that and in fact  miss miss johnson is one of our partners and taken care of some of this we've done you know murals in partnership with with boys and girls club and in her alley to cover up some of that graffiti creatively and and do some things to make it more attractive and  so we are we are working on that and i think it is important that that residents are aware that there are resources to help them if they don't feel like they have the resources to to be able to address the graffiti within that time or it or even there after i think the discretion part is is pretty important for those particular situations and then i did have a message that somebody sent me that was unable to attend i maybe i'll just go ahead and read this was this was on their behalf and he said that the chair is named but i don't know his address he is from the washington school neighborhood and the name is mark and he says  that it would it would seem to make sense for the city to be required to reimburse the repair costs or to provide the needed supplies for want to make the repairs provided that this is done within five the five day timeframe mentioned in the ordinance in other words if the reason we're doing vandalized that that is not the case it's just barely is there they're particularly good at graffiti and when they do get caught they are held responsible but it's a it's a it's just a tough thing to happen in our police department i think is well aware of it they do the best job they can but there is a there is a effort to catch the perpetrators what happens which is a difficult thing to do anyone else care to make comment this  i do think it is true that you know i grew phoebe is a statement it's a monologue but as soon as it's up it tries to become a conversation and it's a violent conversation and it and it encourages more violent behavior just like  in a school situation where you have people talking angrily back and forth if you can stop the behavior at that point you're less apt to have violent physical situation and i think it's really important that is you know is that graffiti is up there it's silenced and if we leave it up there it encourages more of that behavior and it becomes a bill board that encourages a lifestyle that we do now want so like all the other examples whatever is vandalized on a person's property does become the responsibility of the property owner but who ever takes action against another person's property of the course responsible for what they did that's wrong but if we don't know who did what's wrong we're not going to sit there and bring down all the property value of the neighborhood because we don't know who did it so we have to take action and clean it up and make it look right and set a standard that will say this place is quality you want to visit here you want to live here and we keep up the standards and even though it can be hard on some people individually and we do have a lot of nonprofit people that are willing to help like three sixty in the area and good samaritan law center with their city connections program  willing to help people get connected with other people and i think we can develop a good support network to support people but we have to have a system in place where these this department can take action and they don't just drive around looking at problems they can't address so and i do like jay said believe in the discretion of those who are in charge of this policy and they've lived with it for a decade or two they know what they're doing they know how to do it in a way that builds good strong neighborhoods in this neighborhood improvement committee has said the same thing that we need to address this and it we can't let it keep going and so for that reason i would i'm looking forward to voting voting yes on victim of graffiti they take care of themselves there's not an issue other times there are instances where organizations and neighborhood groups and social service clubs will come in and assist in those kinds of things but what happens if none of those things are happening there is  t social science principle known as the broken window theory that says unless you sort of correct these things that happen quickly it tends to cause more of them and neighborhoods go downhill and we you know heard about that tonight certainly we need to do is google images of new york city subways  hundred eighty s and see exactly what i'm talking about versus what they look like today these sorts of things tend to be indicators of social disorder and we want to quickly stop them and again most times they take care of themselves because the property owners do so secondly as as jay indicated this does not mean that no longer and that is the police department looking into these questions far from it it just is sort of fighting it with two prongs now third the question of who want to pay for it and this is not unlike a situation where if my car is vandalized if my house is vandalized it's part of the violation of being the victim of a crime is that in fact i'm then victimized twice once by the perpetrator the second by having to pay to fix the repair now fortunately our pay to conduct the repair fortunately in most instances there's insurance coverage and i would expect that depending upon the  nature of what happens that could be a case here as well but but ultimately the matter needs to be addressed most times it's being addressed on its own but what happens if it's not and this is one of those instances where we were trying to deal with those rare issues but we want to keep them rare and make them even rarer finally i would say this we have laws against your knitting in public in this community and most communities have them for ninety nine point nine nine percent of the people that's not something we need to have an ordinance about but yet we have it why is it because again governments the spot where when social order breaks down we have to unfortunately put some boundaries around things that we don't want to see in this this this ordinance i think deals with it it was  with dane walling who's the mayor of flint today he's of a very fine guy i've gotten to know him through some conferences and other things that we've both spoken out and have been on a couple of things together he's really a fine individual and as you can imagine being the mayor of flint he's got a pretty challenging job ahead of him but he's up to it and there was an article recently that i was talking about flynt's efforts and dealing with graffiti through a graffiti ordinance and one thing that mayor walling said that i'll quote here in a second which i think sort of hits home with what we're trying to accomplish in the quote is this we treat it like trash weeds are abandoned tires and quote that's precisely what we're trying to do it's not being singled out in any way it's being treated as like other sorts of things abandoned vehicles abandoned tires long grass weeds other kinds of things that if the if the party won't step in and take care of it society acting through government  has ways of enforcing the minimum standards in such ways as this place called the will article six which is dealing with chapter thirty two the street performers series i don't know who is all phil is going to introduce this one for us and then we will have a public hearing on that as well good evening phil meyer who is the head of the community neighborhood services department of the city of holland thank you for your down town manager sense of regret she's a bit under the weather she was in here doing this tonight as everyone is aware we've got a tremendous street performer program downtown  in in recent years that program has expanded to the farmer's market the amendments that are before you tonight really came out of discussions and issues that have arisen at the farmers market and are trying to be addressed by staff that service the farmer's market and by the committees that are responsible for that operation what you have are some changes that the issues that have been  identified are sort of management issues with the market the report that we provided you talks about performers exceeding their allotted time at different locations there's a process of rotating vend rotating performers not performing in approved locations and street performers who refused to follow the rules and the market master is the person who's on the site trying to people order and and make sure all of those things continue to work smoothly so the recommendations from the committee the parks and recreation committee as well as the downtown development authority board because there  are staff to work on both ends of this are for some ordinance changes here that essentially give the market master the same authority that the downtown development authority coordinator has  in order in their ability to to enforce the requirements that are part of operating the street performers within the market there are some some real simple changes in here in terms of titles and references to things that are pretty standard sorts of things that give the market master the authority to approve deny or prove with conditions an application for street performers permit immediately when it's filed ordinarily or in the past that processes has run through the p s t it's trying to give the the folks at the market more control over the activities that go on there and it also suggests recommends there's a fee proposal in here it would change the fees that would be required to a five dollar fee for each week of weeks permit so that that permit that is renewed each week a performer comes some performers are there quite regularly other performers come periodically it's an attempt to be able to address that and address any issues that come up on a on a very regular basis as well so again these come from the parks and recreation commission and from the d d a board and i'd be happy to try to answer any questions any questions otherwise i'm sorry come from what you so you might be able to address this brian you may jump in as well and i'm curious as to the the concept of enforcement you know i asked last time we discussed this you know we run into similar issues up in the downtown area and dana made it seem like yeah on occasion we have and we've been able to to manage those and so you know my question is why what prohibits the market master today from sawing off behavior if you will  behavior or calling our our code enforcement officer at any given moment to take care of unruly behavior that is the market master's recourse has nothing to do with their permit for operation it's that's trying to enforce that at the moment this just puts makes it clear that that authorities is given with the market master to do that at one point to make to the difference one of the differences i think between downtown and the farmer's market the downtown performers generally aren't right out in front of somebody front door and business isn't conducted outside so you know they're near the entrances but but they're not standing in front of the door so the disturbance that of a performer might make by playing too loud or whatever the issue might be that could come up in that i think disturbs customers in a business differently than when you're at the farmer's market and that person is four or five feet from the from the back side of the customer at a particular vendor so there's a and it's hard to in some cases it gets hard to hear the the customers and the vendors as they try to conduct business so the ability and the need for somebody there kind of on a regular basis keeping an eye on things i think is a little more pronounced than it is downtown other questions for staff otherwise this is the time and place for public hearing on this site and if you would like to address council on this proposed ordinance amendment please step toward the microphone in a residential address for the record in the public hearing is open seeing no one we will close the public hearing and we have this proposal before us as we are doing your procedure tonight going to get emotional for the place so moved by hoekstra supported by de boer all right is there discussion on this item and phil i appreciate you add in detail as far as you know the nature of conducting business in the marketplace and its relationship to street performers and i understand the desire to have some enforcement where i really struggle with this as it sits right now is how it in essence enables a whole different set of rules i mean we use the phrase in i think it's paragraph h because it's long all trying to my best to find out exactly where but i'll read it and then says the city council authorizes the downtown development authority and the market master the authority to propagate rules and regulations relating to the time place and manner of performances and if i'm understanding this correctly that those rules  essence giving the market master authority to set those rules independently from the d d a is that indeed the request here independently from the view yes yeah yeah and that's where i struggle with it i think it's going to create confusion and quite frankly  you know my preference would be that those rules be made jointly with the d d a as it seems to again it has some slight differences but i just think  that it's placing authority in a space that is one layer removed from the overall structure that works its way back into city administrations but i don't know this if this holds or we're not but there is a lot of discussion that goes on when they run into issues they're constantly talking so i would i would say that you're informed by the other's experiences in this process but your points available to other discussion all right i will also note that i will not be in favor of this has nothing to do with any sort of dissatisfaction i have with at the street performer series nor with happenings at the market though i would indicate it strikes me that if there are concerns about too much activity happening at a farmer's market a that's a rather unusual one to have and two that can be remedied in my opinion by moving where the performers take place and that can be done administrative we not through ordinance  issue i think it should be more streamlined than what we're making and now you want to downtown you go to one office want to be at the farmer's market and do another one separate rules separate permits separate filing fees all sorts of things that do it it's an unnecessary change to a situation that's working quite well please call it communications from the audience for out of the ordinance adoption piece this evening item twelve this is the after the for members of the audience to address council on any item that does not otherwise appear on tonight's agenda if you like to talk with us about something the same rules of council apply five right seeing no one then we will then move on to our board of public works item tonight we handled most of it through consent but in a moment you'll understand why this one is not being handled through consent we welcome to introduce the item danieli from the board of public works good evening dan and welcome to the meeting good evening mayor council thank you for the opportunity to speak to you on the side of the item that we have before you tonight is the first major purchase related to the new gas combined cycle power plant the recommendation before you request approval to enter into an agreement with siemens inc for a total of thirty seven million seven hundred thousand dollars to purchase two gas turbines we have been through a very detailed and time consuming process what started last fall we had a list of five manufacturers they were interested in this project after looking at their qualifications that list was trimmed to three who then submitted proposals that we received in early december we evaluated those proposals and out of the three two proposals were accepted to enter into else a final negotiations for determination of equipment to be used those two were g e and siemens after going through significant metrics and of looking at these equipment the siemens units in all cases except one were the most cost effective and in that one it was basically a tie between g e and siemens we consider both the same ins and g e proposals technically  complete which meant that nick lee they could accomplish what we needed to have them do the siemens offer was cheaper from a capital standpoint approximately twelve percent on one proposal fourteen percent on the other that actually works out to be about five million dollars the siemens configuration also works better for us in combined in combined cycle and that it has more energy going to the steam turban portion of the plant and the steam turbine portion of the plant would provide the heat that we utilize in our snow melt system as well as the potential heat to be utilized for hope college if we get to that point in addition to have the lowest capital costs and also have the lowest lifecycle costs which means that over the thirty year life of this plant when you look at maintenance when you look at fuel when you look at all of the things it takes to run and maintain the plant the net present value of those costs were cheaper for the same than additionally from a maintenance perspective these units are two different technologies the g e unit is an aero derivative unit which essentially means they original design was for it to hang from an airplane wing and they also utilize that technology to make power this siemens unit is not designed to hang from an airplane wing it is actually called a frame type unit very similar to what we have on forty eight street and unit nine when the g e unit needed to be maintained at a major way it needed to be removed from the plant shipped to houston and then overhauled and shipped back that was a one hundred eight day evolution that the unit would be out of service the siemens unit when we formed the same to me once that would be done onsite at the plant we bring people in perform the maintenance and that's roughly a twenty two day cycle so the short and sweet of all of this we get to it it was ultimately a fairly straightforward decision to select the same  quitman for a new power play it no ma'am you come to us with a lot of experience before i came to holland ahead thirty years with c m s energy and that was everything from working for the utility at consumer power i was a site manager a campbell for a number of years and then on the i p p side of business building and operating plants both natural gas combined cycle bio mass coal wide variety including international work that's great and these types of jet engines can be used for a combined cycle right absolutely so that's a better thing to do you know it is the c cycle process that we have is the current state of the art and power generation it provides the most when i say heat rate that's really a measure of a fish and see conversion efficiency how well do we convert that natural gas energy into electrical energy and this is the biggest ticket item will be buying for the new power plants as far as it relates to iron if you will yes this is the the first and the largest purchase i will be back before you probably in the june july time frame with a contract to build the plant that will be of higher value than this but that is mainly labor and some other steel things like that item i would only note that last week was that i believe when we talked in more detail about the siemens selection let's just get it on the table none of us up here our engineers i think at least myself included by the way  ah but we we spent a fair amount of time with dan talking through what they had done in terms of due diligence and we're fortunate that the board of public works in addition to having some excellent business minds which grilled the staff very hard on the on the cost questions and the lifecycle cost questions and really the the ultimate value of these two options to good options we also are fortunate to have a professional engineer and construction person on the board of directors and he spent a good amount of time i've told grilling on some of the technical aspects of this particular product versus the general electric particular product and we also learned  that there was an hour long telephone call before they board of public works had their meeting in which the similar conversation was going on with this engineer so we feel quite confident that this is the best choice for this plant for the uses that we're going to have it's going to be tremendously efficient it's going to be a tremendous cost savings for us and ultimately it's the right choice please call th we can dispense with any introduction on this one the city does contract with the disability network lakeshore for doing a variety of disability related services on behalf of the city we contract with them and brother white plan and we're appreciative of this this service in our community that's available and it's in compliance making sure we're in compliance with all of the title six duties and responsibilities that alice rondo used to assist the city with so this is just one more way that we're keeping up where we need to be thank you x like anything else please call the roll band  yes conference yes divorce yes peters yes yes mayor dexter yes motion passes ok thank you then the other item that was from one of the other i'm from movement consent fourteen each one point four the fee schedule amendment related to chickens ryan or phil may be just the touchstone of what we are complicating in this particular matter yes this is really just you know a format that follows what council did when they approved the keeping within the city it's a it's a permit schedule that that we're suggesting as well as you noted in your discussion of the backyard chicken the  single pet chicken or pet duck or or the chicks as as you also addressed those would not require a permit but two or more chickens would require a permit and this is proposing to have an initial permit that would be valid for three years for twenty five dollars per person and then a subsequent permit fellow for two years at fifteen dollars follows exactly the same numbers and  by peters is there any comment from the audience and the sight seeing none nope ok all right seeing none is there any discussion among counsel seeing them please call the  other item remove from consent dealing with community foundation grant for twenty thousand dollars ryan would you just sketch this one forest for the city council is very familiar with this having kicked off a strategic plan process about two years ago success thanks to much leadership at this table and this latest grant is approval by the community zealand last week for twenty thousand dollars and is made possible through the efforts principally of jodi science authored it and we would like to have your approval of it so we can implement the terms which are those i just spoke of and return the grand agreement excellent any questions for staff all right motion place movie proves my point are supported by de boer excellent stuff technically something we could have handled on consent but nonetheless given the nature of the project and the generosity of the community foundation we wanted to highlight that fact express our appreciation for the award of that grant and also make note that we are still accepting donations and that will be accepted probably till the end of this month if you want your name to be listed in the  kind of donor role you have a little bit more time to get that information in saturday april nineteenth will be the opening of the island and pending sufficient wind the restarts of the blades spinning again thank you being in a gift receiving mood we moved to five point one the acceptance of gifts with appreciation the city manager's office is pleased to report the following gives how i need connections program received donations from the  in the amount of three thousand dollars and also central wesley and church donated in the amount of five thousand dollars perks and recreation received a donation in the amount of three hundred dollars from rankine for the eighth street  donations he worse in the amount of three hundred fifty dollars how in derry convention and visitors bureau in the amount of two hundred fifty dollars can i want industries in the amount of two hundred fifty and milagros six in the amount of five hundred dollars it is recommended that the set donations be accepted with appreciation and an expression of gratitude be forwarded to the donors well without my care this is going to be a bit of a challenge tonight what is the pleasure of counsel i would move we accept with much posted same that passes unanimously and enthusiastically we then go down to the final item that was removed from consent fourteen the five point four dealing with some changes to our meeting schedule and the so that we could better stage them in the open meeting and let folks know when and where we're meeting to talk about that little thing known as the budget brian please want to walk us through i think you the budget because of the calendar it's a little bit later this year but wednesday april sixteenth and thursday april seventeenth is when the budget study sessions will be held and they will be again upstairs at five thirty and conclude when we're done there is an alternate night schedule and that's monday april twenty first same times the announcement of that will occur at the thursday preceding it as to whether it's necessary however that does change the april sixteenth study session would we would not use that right now the regular meeting on april sixteenth would would not of her the way it typically has tonight it will be here at seven o'clock will take a pause in the budget but only deal with some very key elements and i don't believe we'll have our usual procedures but subject to the mayor's discretion on some of the audience for example then in may because of talk time we will not have a regular council meeting on may seventh and that is meeting and that is the typical time and then study session in may twenty eighth and that's typical as well all right thank you ryan and just to note that the that means due to the schedule that the council will be adopting the fiscal fifteen budget on wednesday may fourteen which will be our first meeting in the month of may probably the latest we can adopt a budget under the charter given the go the way the calendar lines up this year so the adoption of the budget will happen on wednesday may fourteen th but as ryan indicated the i will have a whole series of budget meetings before all open to the public all taking place in city hall motion place well we've  hoekstra supply supported by divorce or any discussion anyone would like to have on that comes from dr i appreciate the clarification it shouldn't surprise me that people pay attention to city council meetings because what can be more informative and entertaining than one of these gatherings  formal second item hollin youth connections program is a gang prevention program especially associated with the needs of that risk youth for employment opportunity to experience workplace in a manner that is mutually beneficial for our community and for that grateful to many people here audience who have helped on this many people on council who helped on this and escape ministries i'm pleased to say that we are up to seventy seven thousand dollars and donations or enable roughly three dozen youth to have jobs as well as probably about half a dozen supervisors this is now officially then triple what was accomplished last year and we are well on our way towards accomplishing a goal which is to actually have a ten fold increase in the number of youth employed so if people are aware of employers that need a little hand work want to provide a little mentoring it's a tremendous program had occasion to inspect the work they did ican park boardwalk yesterday pretty chilly but i can tell you the boardwalk is still very looks like it's freshly painted a very nice job that was done due to escape ministries priscilla particularly and her team so with that i do encourage people to contact city manager's office if we can hook them up with this program and make a difference for their organization as well as for the community good thank you ryan communications from the mayor this evening a few items one of them is on the screen i mentioned earlier april nineteenth is the reopening of the roof or cutting a ribbon or we're doing something to rededicate the windmill and again hopefully it will be sufficient wind so that it can begin to spin although the miller indicated that if there we don't have sufficient when she might try and do things to sort of manually spin it just to get the blades turning at that particular moment nine o'clock on april one thousand which is a saturday speaking of windmills and springtime that probably means we're thinking tulip time and as everyone knows the flowers are not quite yet where they need to be they're a little bit behind this year but that's ok we'll get a few hot days and they'll pop right up this year we have a whole host of fun things happening at the festival but on wednesday the governor is returning for the bokes parade additionally we're pleased to welcome the another one's in basad or to the united states to the festival we're hoping also to have other diplomats from other countries we've invited diplomats from korea japan mexico canada i think germany i'm probably missing a couple of other ones as well basically the ones who have consulates in either detroit or in the chicago area we're hoping that they will be able to attend as well speaking of the dutch embassy i was privileged on monday evening to be in washington at the embassy actually at the ambassador's residence to help inaugurate for them something that they're calling hollande on the hill the effort of the dutch government to put on some programming on capitol hill and they thought it would be fun to have hollande on the hill and have some other guy from some other hollande be there to be a part of it so we had a good time there were a good representation from michigan including congress our own r j look this is the son holland high grad and the son of the director of the collin visitors and convention bureau director sally kindness so a good time for sure and they all love very much look forward to coming and seeing our holland as we like to call it finally spring cleanup it seems crazy to be talking about spring clean up when we're also talking about the potential for more snow but it is time for that anyway and  we have extended spring clean up for an extra week i believe and now it ends april twelve we can't extend it a whole lot more than that because of the necessity of having the crews go around and get things cleaned up and picked up before two of time kicks in but we'll sort of keep monitoring it but bring your stuff to the to the street and please no stumps thick limbs that sort of thing but certainly yard waste and and brush and trouble clippings and all those kinds of things great time to get rid of those things and at no  cost aside from the property taxes you pay to have those things taken care of it's a nice service the city offers and is really one of the most popular things we provide it's a good program finally tonight a couple of recommend a couple of and they're actually moving on overseas to do some mission work in the former soviet republic of georgia tbilisi or something like that to not georgia here with georgia there so we certainly wish them well we thank them for their service and we would want to accept their resignations with regret so i place those before you for your consideration so much moved by whiteman support supported by peter's there you go any discussion on those items all in favor please say i post same that passes are there any communications or motions and resolutions from members of council tonight right we wish we could simply adjourn but that is not in our cards tonight we are being asked to return into a closed door session for the purposes of discussing a property acquisition or anything else we're going to discuss in closed door that we should announce for purposes of minutes mr city attorney novas or mr cotton is playing lawyer on television that's right you heard the requests from a city attorney to move into closed session for purposes  of property acquisition we will not be taking action after that closed door session for purposes of television and media viewing this will conclude these this evening's meeting is their motion to do so so moved by peter's doing his best impression or supported by hooks and discussion on that please call the rol