you are in this court the court knows this case involves an abstention order the the government's reliance or basically the government's argument is that they rely on the declaration that we filed with the notice of appeal to the board of immigration appeals and we also submitted it on appeal with the board of immigration appeals one of the issues that i think we have to discuss is whether or not the board  authority to review that declaration we do have to admit your honor that the deck of the declaration when it was written we did not have privy to the letter written by the clinic that letter was submitted from my understanding directly we were privy to to that letter it was it was part of the file it was part of the a judge's file but certainly my client's acting pro se did not have  yes well i'm referring to the letter from the clinic that indicates they burned they had a fire on august the tenth right i said yes so it's from my point of view that certainly the i j a did not allude to it did not refer to it and certainly what he did at least consider was the pictures submitted by my pro se clients from the clinic that was boarded up and closed that was the only evidence that they had before then see only evidence that they could provide they did request from the mobile van in front of the clinic days later that they should if they could give them some type of proof at some point they did write a first of all we i do have to emphasize that my clients were acting pro se question is what was before the i j a and you put no evidence before i understand your honor and again there wasn't even their fault they were the clinic had burned down statements that my client had suffered from the precondition of a stroke and was ordered to remain home and obviously the minor children did not stay they stayed with the father take care of the father because there was a history of strokes i thought one was an adult the older daughter she was a wonder sponsible for the flaws in the minor children there was an adult daughter and a son who was practically what to do in this situation to no what the regulation says to know that and i think you have to establish exceptional circumstances to know that the judge would require a phone call to the court letters an affidavit from a doctor simply telling it to the record tell us that in mexico for example people when they break appointments they don't bother calling him your honor i can't generalize i would not have a direct answer for that just in you know our country we do that  so what is the what you know of the but is that these people are again did not speak english or the daughter of the oldest daughter was the only one with some type of english fluency at the time and she did not know any legal the legal steps to take in a situation like this you know owner that means that in the declaration that the responding filed in his appeal with a b i a word he wanted to expand on some of these concepts indicated that there was a paper that he received from resolve an appeal without further for fact finding must follow a motion arraignment i would that last sentence obligates the board to act in situations where they feel there are some facts that need to be developed or discussed and they considered as a motion to remain even though there is no title no quote unquote black letter title motion arena and so they certainly have made it clear that you don't have to quote board will not engage in fact a fact finding in the course of deciding appeals a party asserting that the board can mount proper resolve and appeal without further fact finding must not should not can not could appeal i don't file an application for a c l a we will consider that your file an application for us you know a i don't think that's before the court the actual verbiage of that's before the court but i would also submit that the regs would supersede that statement decide for me tell me tell me what i need to do there are procedures in place specifically procedures in place and again i go back to the point saying that the border in this case is that if you have if you want to do for the fact finding you must file a motion to remain period in the state other interest in things that need to be for the border of this court even if the evidence submitted was accepted it still on it he'd have to have a hearing and perhaps he would have and maybe that's why it intently certainly didn't do it it also could have been that he thought that that letter was only that the place might have burned down another time ten days later and  when that's completely dispositive you believe it i think that there's a lot of things we can use conjecture to figure out what we believe the i j a might have been thinking with this and why didn't specifically pointed out you know i could we could come up with a thousand i  questions when i was reading over the administrative record was is the affidavit really new facts as the affidavit presented to the board really new facts i would question whether it is or not it's more of like a compilation of what the petitioner said earlier presented evidence that he had in as much act and had to be away from his home as away from his job for six days didn't amount to exceptional circumstances wasn't severe enough so the i j a said it's not severe enough number one  please report a couple of points first the motion to reopen that was filed by by the the applicants did not mention any dates as far as when they went when they did not so if this letter day that the declaration of his letter later filed again was without the information in this letter so we went from memory and this is what the respondent just remember that it was around we should file in motion a rematch and yes that's what the regulation states but again i want to draw attention to this court to the board of immigration appeals practicing manual and they say that in several chapters chapter five section five point chapter ten ten point three section and section four four point eight and this is basically what they state if new evidence are submitted in the course of an appeal the submission may be