all right so do you want to get started we have a forum so i would like to call to order the south trying to counsel a meeting of december thirtieth two thousand and eighteen we'll second item is possibly enter into executive sessions for the purpose of discussing three items community center con tracks with the library board of trustees the discussion of collective bargaining of labor between the city and third parties related to the new community center the labor relations agreements with the employees collective bargaining and confidential attorney client communications made for the purpose of providing professionally will services to the council we clearly place the council in the city at a substantial disadvantage second ok all in favor of having so found i now move to the council enter into executive sessions for the purpose of discussing those three things that i just moved in the previous motion is it ok to say that  lay like two out back into the south burlington city council meeting of monday december third twenty eight eighteen and we will move to items three on the agenda instructions on exit exiting building in case of emergency thanks helen should we have an emergency tonight we've asked people to exit out these two side doors and then meet us right outside in the parking lot here behind us if for some reason these doors are blocked we'd go back out the front entrance a way that you came in ok i'll make sure i clear the bathroom so i think that's the other piece of it i will clear the bathrooms everybody else get out of the building there are good ok agenda review any additions deletions or changes in order to send items and the only thing i see missing actually is a report on any of the committees that we serve on so maybe we could include that that during our announcement so seeing no changes for the agenda comments and questions from the public not related to the agenda yes please put forward stuff going on so that a new legislation towards five g regulation would be later on maybe in like a month or two so i just wanted to let us know how that was going and i'm sorry it would be postponed to when i think he said to check back in a month or two when a month or two ok i didn't understand you and i thought you  us active denial systems so there is some concern there's also some communities in america that have banned cell towers from residential areas such as  owning but it was my desire and i didn't say this at the meeting was that i wish they'd start talking about the right then and there that night now i left after an hour and a half maybe they did i did stay for the whole meeting but you know we have nine or x months right tis to get this process moving and for whatever meetings that they have if they're going to appoint people they better have that done immediately and then get down to the task of doing the  first foremost and let's get out of the way so they can show the progress that they're going to make so just i mean it's just a reflection from having been there you know that's something you can share with hope because i think here w end that we had that we give them the benefit of in terms owning to get specific work done let's get the work started immediately you know i mean i don't want to rush into it but i do want to rush into it if you know to me yep yep no it was known tuesday thank you david well i wasn't here most of the last two weeks haven't  d the semester crunch there's not much else not much else this week it's the only good news is that i think that you and maybe kevin i don't know met with public way and the will be covered under unless you have some other oh i don't know i don't i just hadn't gotten to talking about yet and so but you know that's the progress we're all looking forward to and from the entire recreation facility perspective again you don't have much recall we did have a big holiday and lots of family time i did want to put on your list an update and  i guess we're just looking for a little guidance from council in terms of what the priority is going to be because with interim zoning if we're talking about the other item on the agenda tonight the capacity is going to be such that something has got to slide a little bit and i guess we're sume ing that that's probably something that would slide with the importance placed on the other items that you identified personal capacity is right now with everything that is kind of coming planning and zoning way i think he's feeling a little overwhelmed but if the council feels that you want him to shift something he's certainly willing to do that i think there's just there's a bit of pressure that he's feeling about not being able to do all the things that are kind of all the balls that are in the air right now so maybe that's a better discussion we agreed to a contract this is public knowledge yes and next august or september will have two electric buses in fleet so we're excited about that we brant just curious wrote tara we also then spent a lot of time mostly in executive session on the funding source discussion last year's budget in this coming year budget a lot more to report on soon and i know that you're interested in getting that so as the rest of the community and they all know that so i'm hoping you'll get an e mail the next couple of weeks with a pencil an idea of what we're looking at for an assessment any reports too yes ok when it comes back around last we are starting on  contract renewal and review process mark was hired to he was given a one year contract starting in january which ans this january so i'm engaged in conducting a surveys of both the board members some leadership in g m t and also some extra constituents to prepare the board for a contract negotiation with their general manager this coming january the only announcement like to make other than g m and i'm happy to spend more time on g m a few questions on that but the only announcement is this coming sunday ugly sweater run at  came back with a very good report and i also wanted to share that there was an update on one of the bikes called again i'm sorry  signed onto initially but they are seeing perhaps the hills in our community as somewhat as an impediment to people making round trips with bikes that they they tend to take them down on the uphills a little bit more difficult so they're working on that also looking into scooters and the legislative breakfast i believe is next week and hopefully how do you really believe you got the invitation is very good ok i just wanted to make sure that that was made to you and when we have our formal housing discussion i'll discuss some of the things that were discussed or announced at that meeting things coming up in december january with regard to affordable housing ok well i went to two meetings this week one was wonderful i was invited to present and serve on a little panel for the  official ribbon cutting for allard square and i received a beautiful little plaque for the community so this i'll hand this to what what did vice what i give to other communities and how to be or not active or provide the same level of leadership and commitment to affordable housing a south burlington so i went through a number of items but i only mention that because what i heard from everyone who spoke is that they see self burlington as a real shining example of the kind of commitment and the different things that we have done to support affordable housing is really a wonderful template for the state serves really nice  project was named she turned one hundred three i think or two she was there with her sister from quebec on to friends and then and they had a beautiful picture of her at the groundbreaking th honor and she has been working she was the first cathedral square leader which she founded the the concept i guess and has been active for thirty five years in affordable housing for the to me for the elderly and she didn't know they were doing this so it was it was really very very sweet and a very nice program and the building it is is really just beautiful the other meeting i went to was a  g and airport commission meeting and some of the highlights heritage shared with the commission that they have become a b corp they receive their b corp certification and as a result of that will be offering carbon credits to their consumers which is kind of neat from wind and solar we got an update on a lot of the construction and because they try to have a lot of projects shelf ready and they have a whole list of things that they improvements that they want to make to the airport they have a lot of things that are kind of shelf ready so that if there's additional money that's available to the end of a fiscal year they have a project that they can apply for that's ready to go it's not just a concept or a thought or we know we need to do it and we haven't done the planning so they received some additional money to make celery the terminal apron faces five and six so that will be done i think here early  call spread sheets and stuff about all sorts of junk that have to do with airport you know with the cost of the tickets and now money in plane mints and all that kind of stuff and they're trying to make it a little more  transparent and understandable to the commission and presumably the public will kind of financing they actually earn from the parking garage and things like that so when it's ready i will definitely share it with you let's see as you know they've started the airport master plan planning and they're going to be starting a public survey and are really asked me and other people to really encourage the public to participate in that survey they really are interested in and they're spending you know they have this consultant at several hundred thousand dollars to do this outreach for the master plan so they really want to make sure that a lot of public members in south burlington come to the meetings  and if they can't come to the meetings at the very least fill out the survey and really share their thoughts the participation has been a little poor so far but you know i think sometimes it's the time of day for the you know e mails and things but maybe we should i should make more of an effort to put that in front porch for him it's on their website but not everyone goes to their website so i'll make a point of trying to reach out to them at least the airport neighborhood to when those are and when the survey will be ready and they have to final well there's four final homes i guess to be demolished to will be removed in the next sixty to ninety days one on kirby and one on shamrock that's just an update they are and then we also got a report and i thought this is interesting because when they the hotel i was in on the commission so how they that process worked but they have a ground lease the airport has only a ground lease with do construction which is created in l l c so that they can have the franchise for this mary  the out you know what it looks like and stuff that's sketch and what each each floor looks like and stuff so if you'd like to see it you're welcome to see that and so they will build and manage it and so it's really the airport will not be managing it all they own if the land underneath which they will  team but well whatever i think the property tax that becomes part of yeah that's ours and that's part of that agreement so it's not the market rate right but it a few would be for is it ok yeah i'm here to change to nonprofit so i know that some nonprofit buildings right have a lower property tax than others who are like ours where as it has a different property tax out that has a housing coupon and i don't know if all exciting event a good crowd and it's just it was good to see everybody happy many of the residents were there and a few of them spoken and it's very impressive very nice service still working on the budget with department managers and our goal is to have an overview overview for you at the seventeenth meeting the c h p will also be present it is a  hearing public hearing that nine just in asked if i would remind folks that the parking been is now in effect i think our plows have been out three times already and that's just november  our actuary we should have that within the next week or so those presentations will be in january to the council the next meeting we have presentations from tim darden on the perform performing arts center feasibility study lead door with an update on the work to date on the indoor record and tony karon school be coming in to discuss the proposal furry central entrance in addition to the ice arenas up at veterans memorial park i did meet with bob like we in the architects last last week i saw the proposal of what the arena board is looking at for a central entrance and how that might connect to a new indoor record passivity i don't know if i can connect directly because rink one's own front structure in the way what is that gets rebuilt they're great they're going to make a court that yeah it's great if we could if we could finish that off and get the rec center built and do both potentially at the same time and get some economies of scale and restructure cos it could be could be huge that could make a real nice difference  just you know going to the howard square opening driving back and forth on the newly paved and upgraded market street and there is so much construction going on and the allard square meeting i chatted with chris snyder or or can i can't remember which one but they have another project that is headed toward the d i don't know if it's condos or apartments but anyway you shared that with me so that's sort of the next thing on their he didn't say and i didn't get into all those details but it just encouraged me that you know  important for them to do that appreciate that's the point i've had also some comments with regard to kimball avenue and the bridge there that we're renting currently from the state that some kind of you know public information billboard would be helpful they don't always go to the city website they don't always so maybe something on market street also saying you know here's where we amendment and a resolution establishing the self brewington public safety management group for the roman and the vermont municipal employees retirement i move that we approve the consent agenda for just a news keep press and i'm curious the winter reminder notice in the when you skip press do we advertise in the and other local papers in addition to our own we pull that out ok make you know look it up maybe we could marry hunter of the other business but i think winter parking man but i'll find out i'm guessing they might have printed it up for us as well so that we could distribute it to people that actually is a warning that's probably i just i can double check that ok all right very good the comment i had was with regard to let me get to the page the minutes sue and i know i really do like this system where we do read them a like well ahead of time so but nevertheless with regard to the thirteenth of november minutes page seven i made a motion to add and it says in the minutes the auclair land within the city itself burlington to the lands exempt from interim zoning and i just wanted to make sure that that was absolutely crystal clear for everybody i was looking at the document the agreement and there was the term the clear lands there in the second paragraph and so what i would like to suggest is ms emery move to add the auclair lands within the city of south burlington to the lands exempt from interim zoning these lands include the parcels that were part of the conservation land deal with the city commonly known as parcels a b and c mr kaufman seconded motion passed unanimously and i have it here six years on the corps hartcher an arboretum board it was a local sixteen acre arboretum that was gifted to the town of milburn by cora hartshorne she was alive in the early one thousand hundreds and she had this amazing foresight to gift a small parcel of land in a big city and i was fortunate enough to serve on the board of trustees and the executive committee i took care of the sixteen acres woodlands and then i later became a rock master gardener so i have this connection to the land and also a connection to the environment and taking care of the open spaces in the natural world is very important to me and i'm hoping to connect the two i work very closely with the town forester and i had about sixty thousand dollars budget that i was responsible for so we did a lot of removal of invasive plants planting need of tribes for migratory birds and insects and we had a wild any questions for allison if i have a standard question are you familiar with the meeting pattern have you attended any of the meeting so far i mean i've come to all the city council most of the city council meetings the development review board meeting so i've seen a little bit of it in action i mean we had months at the arboretum we had monthly meetings once a week and then being on the executive committee committee we had additional meetings once a week so i'm similar with that kind of format it wasn't as whether it was that or just being a part of it just to be more involved with the community and the natural world any other questions it's ok because i'll be curious during our discussion of reasons i guess a question i have is not only you know the expertise do you bring in to a committee but also just your expertise of working with people you see and problem solving kind of group work i feel like i'm also a school but i have a masters in education i taught for a few years before i had my four children and also before moving me to vermont i just recently gone back to work where i was a head teacher for two year olds and i also taught yoga for over a year so i'm here for you i feel like i do know how to breathe and i just feel like i've always had a good ability to work with people and problem solve and just be open to ideas for sure rain boots and all that good stuff that's fine it's liberating  i grew up in shelburne and i have recently moved back in the past three or so years and i really want to get involved in my further in my community and also further and in shaping how we live in south burlington how we sustain sustainably develop our city so  the south bronx land trust i'm floored member there but now this would be my first what cells do you think you bring in that for work i feel i collaborate really well with people  and i also yeah i understand that that collaboration is essential and and i feel that i have an open mind and i i feel it's essential to hear everyone out there everyone's opinion make sure everyone feels listened to and that's that's  that's my answer there thank you thank you and we have to open currently we have more than two so i think it's important that's why we brought them forward tonight out of context because they really didn't have enough and as you recall we're asking them to do some work for during the i c period so it's good to have some skill sets that have been described so what we're circling here is we established a policy where we're not doing off cycle appointments unless the committee has problem meeting quorum or if it's one of our charter u do you want to deliberate in public on this or do you want to make this i move here ok so i would enter on time and do together sure i would entertain a motion to appoint allison childlike and duncan murdock to the natural resources committee for high costs are filling out a term i don't know how many years each term is what to do some research on who we like you know so yeah yeah i think so ok moving on to number nine discussion and possible action on matters related to studies and work plan conducted during interim zoning discussion when we were creating the discussing the the work roles of the interim zoning committees and particularly what we were tasking the planning commission to do and i think what got lost in the shuffle a bit was a presentation that john i think john you alone or maybe you and sandy had made about  asking the planning commission to housing committee come up with a recommendation they've studied it has been on it for a very long time and hoping to be able to implement that in the area no that's not part of interim zoning so the areas that we have sort of carved out which specifically are focused on areas we've identified as as wanting to have more intense or appropriate to have more intensive development and so this was brought to my attention that  it wasn't clear i guess whether the council was interested in tasking the planning commission to sort of get on that early i guess quadrant but they're doing the p p u d ordinances or development all over the city correct i think so too so there are some that apply to that would benefit from more careful zoning regulations as well you know they lie on the other side of spears street for instance and i think i think that i'm not ready to have there are different types of p d s and they could apply in different places all throughout the city i think two important notes for the council about the project one is that assigning it geography really is really of a very small piece of it because it's the entire structure of how it works so only the commission went through a pretty substantial work plan a list of natural resources in terms of transportation in terms of open space all these kinds of things and so the assignment of a physical location i can set his partner elsewhere is really just you know five percent of it because most of it is the structure of how one exists where one applies it is really just one small component of it so to do it in just one area or to two to assign it to one area might actually be more work because what do we do with the rest of the city then what would happen if the council were to ask the commission to add that to their work plan well in terms of how the two could work together the structure that is going to exist for planet developments and subdivisions will have a lot of component parts that come into it and so at any time the city chooses to adopt a city wide standard or standard that applies in certain parts of the city it would essentially plug into it so it could exist before during or afterwards and i am in any of those cases it would fit ok timing wise i think that the the key question for the council would be what do you want commissions time and and importantly also a staff time to focus on we're estimating that realistically test the questions i think we're conservatively looking at probably it's six to eight hours of commission time to work through this and some want to work through their recommendations will work through the recommendations and or do public meetings and or go through the docking process there's a lot of steps involved with any kind of regulatory change that's that's a significant amount of commission time and then from a staff tender one ratio in terms of time in terms of for every commission meeting or that's that's about that so eighty hours probably something like that so i guess then the question for the council would be where do you want to fit this in right now the commission had a meeting last week in their discussion was that their first priority is the puti project as determined by the council second priority that they had discussed was that they would be interface with the open space in t d r group so they're going to be they've nominated a liaison to you and in order to have it go to for your consideration in order to have that go efficiently they would dedicate some time under each meeting in the next few months to make sure that there are any questions that come up are answered right up third priority right now would be any results that come out of those two groups t d r committee or open space that have a regulatory or planned implication that that would be their next thing and then knowing that the council had had some discussions but not had not yet taken any action related to inclusionary zoning that that would be the next the next party right after that in terms of that rank order of things so that's how they've been looking at it if you were to choose to adjust that that probably means that the total time frame for all the projects goes out either from staff and or the  nugget that this can be narrowed down to so that it doesn't have as much time impact on their work for in terms of it because this doesn't have to be all done at once i mean you can take major pieces of this  and in the end do one piece first and then later on when if we're out of it or absorbing risk we're coming out of it then you know maybe take another chunk and take so i get that i'm just asking that question retort leave you know because i really don't want to s committee and i really think it's a matter of priorities now for the past couple of months very powerful or outspoken group of citizens has been advocating before representing the city's side that says the people are important to comprehensive plan says that we should have more affordable housing the problem is getting worse in this region every day and we've got potential in the districts that are been set aside from interim zoning for some fairly substantial housing you all know about the larkin project out of seven that would be an if it were if we had done is that a couple years ago that would include fifteen percent of affordable housing and what he tore down to build that was affordable housing it was great housing but it was a and if we allow more time to go and have more development happen and we have the opportunity simply by passing inclusionary zoning to have you know fifteen twenty thirty one hundred units of of housing that are working people our city employees can afford and i think we've done something good and so amongst the things that are in the work plan for the planning commission isn't it possible that some of those things you could adjust your resolution of for an interim zoning and say some of those things can spill over and don't even have to be in the in the nine months that you set aside i just think you tilted way over to the side o shifting the focus of development onto the tracks and overlays on in other words where interim zoning doesn't apply that's the ideal place for affordable housing so all of a sudden we have all this part of the city that for the protection of open space you've done this action and we're not arguing with that but what we're saying is it has an impact on where development is going to take place while big agenda item was the twenty fifty transportation plan and right now our exit fourteen is really a pinch point that they would like to focus on and for the twenty fifty plan and they show that if we were to expand the number of lanes that exit fourteen that then the pinch point would move to exit twelve exit thirteen exit fifteen and sixteen so that's just to show you a little bit what's coming with they also project a twenty five percent population increase for the county but with regard to the calendar december they're going to be holding an information session more than in the air it seems to be something that you know people will be working around if we were to spread let's let's do the conservative sixty to eighty hours and say it doesn't have to be done by christmas but if it could be done by the end of january or beginning of february is that something where you could include some discussions that's in maybe if it's only one piece or a few pieces of it it would go down to thirty hours i think that impression that in the past we have contracted with c c r p c we've had down albrecht are there other polls that we can contract for as we put so much pressure on you both time wise and workload was that could help us and do more in this nine month timeframe he offered staff time and the expertise is possible that we could get some assistance through the regional planning commission we've had an initial conversation with them they have some  staff staff who have experience in this i'm not in the space inclusion specifically but in in these realms of subject areas and so there is some possibility there we haven't gone any further than to sort of have the preliminary conversation i think we were having it with respect so far to the work product of the council has asked of us most recently with the t v or in the open space in the p d s and the economic analysis piece we can certainly continue that conversation i can't make commitment in other parts parties bassett but i prefer to complement but i'm not so unique in this world to is one of my questions mike i had thought but i had i did i don't know is a ever saw of the recommendations and you probably sent it to me sandy and i didn't read the twenty pages but we didn't ok but my understanding is that the affordable housing committee really has developed the board maybe i'm wrong but the ordinance language that you would need and i and they've and there's a lot of expertise on their committee occlusion arizona and and what those ordinances look like and we have already incorporated inclusionary zoning in our form base coat so we have gone through that i guess experience of our learning curve of looking at the language and making sure it says this is how you include or incorporate inclusionary zoning in development i mean we have it in city center so i guess i'm i'm curious how difficult it is to expand them around know what it takes but it seems like if you already have fifteen parts of an ordinance inform base code that says if you know going to build here it's going to include unary housing and this is what these are the percentages and this is that you know levels of income and blah and these is how you get out of it or you build it somewhere else or something we have all that already incorporated in our ordinances or l t r's so what how difficult is it to say not only will it be  eighty hours is that's a lot of time that's you know two full weeks of every moment of your time and we've already done it once well help me you know i mean i think that's a great question  committee has put a lot of time and effort and has a draft that is there the draft has been reviewed by the commission and they had some some good and challenging questions related to it we haven't yet done any kind of sort of pushing and pulling as to how it relates to the rest of our regulations so when it came in the city center version of it was adopted with a foreign base codes the sort of came together as a complete sat outside of city center it is proposed to include a variety of sort of bonus structures and other things and so how those things interplay with the rest the regulation is a little bit tricky i think a significant amount of the time that we're in visioning are both in the public outreach which is a so significant and important component of this and recognizing that it may have strong support in the community it may be relatively straight forward there's only to my knowledge a couple of other communities in the state that have adopted one i give a lot of credit to the affordable housing committee for having i think tried to be very thoughtful in the way that it's developed when the other two communities adopted it there was significant feedback on it and so sort of preparing for that possibility is i think would be managed at the scale it's one thing to have one project a year come online and sort of work with what does it mean to have affordability components who's reporting to who what systems we have in place we're likely going to need to ramp that up to deal with city center effectively over the next year if this comes in in a in a short period of time there are some significant administrative elements to this that may be to be contracted out but that is negotiating contracts to be upwards and so we're that's sort of all in there in terms of time to to make something like this work properly that we have had the experience as a community with all of the stuff that feral developed near well sure yes and the ones that have worked  very smoothly and efficiently are those where the housing is managed by affordable housing organization such as the two square or family housing trust the next realm of this will be those projects that may not be necessarily run by an organization like this and what's the relationship that  normal property owner who is either doing sales or is to in rentals but isn't necessarily an affordable housing specialist developing a clear system so that they understand what they're supposed to be doing so that we can contract potentially with one of these organizations or another one but making it so that we don't have to make it so we don't have a kirby cottage which was its own affordability tool that was in the land records that was sort of self manage which circumstance that we never invision never would come up came up about the buyout but the challenge was that the fundamental challenge before the airport issue was that the developer wasn't a ffordable housing person and they were trying to figure out how do i manage it knowing that none of the major organizations want to manage this housing so that's as this grows we're going to need to solve that it's not a bad thing to solve but it will take some time to sort out this sounds like it's understanding in articulating the bonus density bonus i assume process outside of city center because city center was already pretty dense i mean that was the whole point though and so we didn't need to do that bonus it was just a requirement but outside of city there were n four five story buildings maybe we are but it's that management of the bonus part as well as the management are those that are i mean there's there's some related elements to it but i think that those are the main pieces in terms of there already is a bonus structure in today's regulations but that's not necessarily widely known because there's only been two or three projects ever that have made use of it and so communicating effectively to the community that a more run of the mill project may be may have more dwelling units than what they might have expected previously even though it was a lot before the structure is encouraging it so just having those that dialogue and understanding implications in neighborhoods for that community you're talking about is the development community i'm using the which is part of c b s has applied for a gray had only fifteen hundred dollars but anyway from the vermont natural resources council they really do expect to get  it and the sole purpose of it would be to hire a facilitator that would work with the city and certainly the planning commission and public education least initially that some national advocacy center was came into iceberg subject but that may or may not be the case here i'm just sort of preparing the public public hearing sometimes or really fast and inclusionary zoning that that our committee has designed is really aimed at a middle group of people within the say between eighty and one hundred twenty percent of median depending on whether it's the lower end would be the rentals the higher end for single family housing median income is for the city is right around seventy thousand dollars so you could do the math we're not talking about you know other of the other is we're talking about us and we're talking about you know our glories of the city are talking about school hospital people who are in business in the community or people who work in retail so it's really you know when when you think about a development let's say fifteen percent of that development is going to be affordable for that particular group i would really challenge someone who lives there or observes this development to say oh those are the people who are living in the affordable housing you're mean we've we've geared this so that the developer isn't going to lose a whole lot of money on each affordable unit they might break even and they make it up on in other ways with their other units but we're really not talking about a charitable outreach here we're talking about trying to accommodate people who actually live and work in their community it's the same thing that happened after world war two when they built all aus is out in the chamber with neighborhood and now over and  west side of the city where i live a lot of housing got built for people just like the people that we're talking about who i have a job have some information raising a family and want to live here and so i think we do have a job of convincing the public that this is important and i but it is i think a job that's accomplishable in the i don't think this is going to be a whole lot of pushback the pushback will come part you know in the south these kwartin are places where people are afraid of it but in the part of the city that we're talking about tonight density is already a fact of life and we're just trying to add if that density gets added to we just want to have some component of it affordable to these people you know are very are backbone of our economy i guess that's why i tend to believe that there would not be a lot of public resistance to this part of the city you know being targeted for this inclusionary zoning i mean there might be concern and in need for information that i fully expect but i just  and we will be available to answer those questions will be available to tweak our draft as things go go forward you know we work very closely with the point comes i really want to follow up with you know what time reminded us about charlie baker's offer for staff time and expertise i think this is something that we could maybe think about seriously at least to a point  we can get some extra help to get to get a jump start on this and at least make a little bit of progress you know what i said we've got to duck days we've got to cross and then from there see what public find it to be reasonable to reach out to me i know you mention it as well as a possibility but do you find it reasonable with regard to what you're looking at here of the next you know i think leave as i said it adding this as an equal priority is will likely have some effect on the time frame of all the others i don't think it's reasonable to i don't think it gets it's fair to everybody to strong but i think that if we other back to reasonably in order to both meet the challenge that we step before our selves in the various committees for the interim zoning in addition to making sure that the development that occurs during this interim zoning period meets our goals our overall goals i think that that's a reasonable or have some that not acting hypocritically but  finding a way to mitigate some of the pinch points i think would be would be you know something to really explore him and if so i have a direct question for the committee and that is do you have locations of future projects that you think you need to have the simplist before they even come in for premium well we have land that large tracts of open land that's for sale right now that's the kind of thing going up and i'm asking lake you know because of the transit overlay district outside of city center and city center is where the construction is going to happen over the next you know three four five years right but there are going to be markets in other areas too that are is there some aspect of this that we could strip down to just one particular thing that applies to one kind of appeal you d that we could push into the planning commission to evaluate at the same speed that they're doing the p d work because i think thirty single family homes i love it even if they're worried affordable you know because we need more single family without going into the specifics of a of a draft regulation here in the meeting that there may be a couple of areas in there that are more complex than others and maybe less likely than others and i don't i don't know if you want to get into any of the specifics of it but it's possible that there are some elements of this probably not to keep graphic it may be a type of development so it's that that's possible i haven't had any conversation with with any committee members about that idea so i don't wan to they don't more intimately than i do so i would speak on their behalf but i think there is some possibility for that i haven't thought whether there be any unintended consequences of taking some parts out of it but it's possible really think that would probably be better done at the administrative level because we're having discussions with them on the interim selling studies to ask about one group's ask don't want to want another but that's a conversation that isn't nice but does not add too much to your work to include this as or when you hear conversations with them and really push for some expertise and support to be able to and you know get that out of the way and then but at that point they didn't feel they had clear in our guidance from the council about where things are resorting so because it's not the point of this isn't the right time to talk about that approach but that is a kind of that john and i have talked about and have been communicated to jessica so we're definitely willing to go the extra mile to make it less burdensome and i do think the committee has a good reputation with the planning regional planning commission so paul can you add that welcome to work more i say that tongue in cheek we're we're all we're all on the same page i think we need to what we need to work on this but but we only have so many people and so much so many people so i think yes if you include that in a conversation and see what their recommendation and thoughts are maybe you can report back in two weeks as to where we are with that and then we'll i think we just keep talking about it until we figure out a formula for being able to integrate this into our plan as soon as possible and using whatever outside resources we can and one way or another and maybe we'll get to a point where there can be a subcommittee that works with your affordable housing for me in a few planning commission members i think we need to keep this  you know on the front burner and not let it fall off and just see how we can work it in but recognizing the team said initially we can't deal ralph the priorities that whatever the regional planning commission is really able to help us as resources and game plan for what that could look let's see where we are i think that's good and you so you're suggesting david that then when we get that feedback then we'll move ahead with some kind of direction for the writers to get out from from here forward i think what's happened over the last few months is that with a number of projects they've seen p d s and then seen something else and seen p d and seen something else and so knowing that this was now a very top priority this last meeting was a little bit of a here's the universe and launching and i think they gave us very clear direction towards the end of the meeting of what they're looking for  and they can start turning that i think it's important as whether you're talking with folks or never that they understand that this isn't going to get done in regular every other meeting sessions are going to probably need some rick you know a retreat or tour a couple of  half day saturdays or a full day you know we can sessions and we're going to get this done it's got to be people who are really willing to put some strong effort into it into it because standard schedule is not going to get done so i just want to make you put all of we kind of decided to tackle this and i would think there are enough people out there that have indicated they care enough about it that it should be people that say yeah you know for for a series a time i'm going to put in some extra time or get this done absolutely yeah oh thanks bob thank you and one one quick question as you're since you're here and it's not quite on this topic but macon had a question earlier about hear about how you were overbooked but is there perhaps then just for me to know because i do receive e mails about it too is this something that is going to wait until so meeting one of the principal outcomes of it was to set up a regular time when key staff and a couple of liaison from the committee will meet and so our first one of that is going to be next week i believe not sure if you're in that t next week or the week after to start to develop the some of the things that i've been talking about with you all about what is what is an action plan look like what does it mean to do an annual report how do we  integrate sustainability and energy subjects into our day to day decision making so that's that's the principal action that we're taking i think realistically having a proposed planet or next meeting is probably pushed out based on the adoption of the interim zoning and these other priorities not not for lack of interest but for being realistic i'm very glad to hear though about these meetings h see whether the voters are going to approve the site sort of voters approve the site announcement of the grant and i think it's a really it's a very competitive grant but we hope that the knesset of the south burlington city center that we're developing we'll have just take a quick break and come back to the resolution establishing the recreation foundation and parks recreation   status with the state for five hundred one c three or set up a separate foundation to be able to have the city become the swar depository for the money spice setting up a separate reserve fund and we thought for this purpose since it's worked well for other similar kinds of activities that this would be the way to do it maybe the simplest way to do it is still tax deductible for people that we contribute towards it so we have worked up a resolution here and officially kind of named it the recreation and parks foundation fun foundation that was maggie luger and as she did to get going into is a patient that we want to raise money at some point for an indoor recreation facility as we all know we have zero indoor recreation space at all and this is going to be with the existing liquidate the rinks you know the board is excited about the prospects as well having a major facility there with the recreation offices a new recreation facility the new common entryway to the rinks to become quiet for lack of a better term a spectacular complex it really would be awesome and so this makes more sense because to go through not only the the dollars of creating a hundred one c three it's the requirements on an annual basis to keep the i r s happy and we can we can do it just as effectively with a special account so that's what we that's what we're proposing to do anything else to enter that well our accountant please don't identify yourself jennifer cochran i am secretary of recreation parks foundation and chair of recreation and parks committee we were told by the accountant it would be three thousand dollars just to apply and were a small committee and most of us are putting in time and didn't have three thousand dollars to come up with so it was great to have tom come to our meeting and suggest this it presents a process for accountability basically of separating the funds from the city budget setting up a separate fund for it and it will be tax deductible and it will allow for accounting of how the money comes in and where it goes so that was basically what we were interested in doing making sure that allow there and we can say to people you know if you if you donate money to this we will make sure that it goes where you intended to go and there is one recreation parks department the third paragraph the third whereas the third where yes the third where us raise funds for the recreation of parks department to include funding  foundation member looks like you're all pretty much on board and that's great but this will also facilitate motivating other people to look at some of our other assets and supporting them as well to if they were if they want to so under what is something you know that you can you can see and i think there's a gentleman here in the audience t evening who is you know has some some interests maybe in supporting that so this is a great way to promote our our park assets and to promote  got together they listed priorities and sections of first second third priority four point five million and so there we have a lot of ideas about how we could enrich our open space of supporting this resolution by by saying i i i i rate moving on to number of eleven signature for the next ok great this is a discussion of possible action related to the distribution of social services funding and i think everyone sees an email from tom i tried to print it and i have heck of a time printing  mails so i have my phone on so i can read it i need to thank you so the committees some thoughts about this we have fifteen thousand entities to which their money went and they no longer they do it because i got their promotional thing the other day so i tend to think we should use our money how many of those who are well in the funds to use to howard mental health were we could direct to supplement the outreach program for mental health counseling services on nights and weekends specific to south burlington recreation apartments a new thing i think i have to say the scholarship opportunities for families that i think is sort of related to our desire to have kind of different buckets and one was families contributing funds to common roots which is a wholly south burlington organization and they do the farming at underwood and and stuff at the wheeler house and do a lot with the schools david you're suggesting maybe not doing anything with united way we certainly have the in the south burlington employees are doing a united way funding so i guess that matches and i found that very useful to know  m and it worked there when you know whatever we did they were going to match and so them we had a common goal of a million dollars back in the cream days of the eighty's and ninety's you know but we have a target for the cell phones and employees even participation i don't know what it was last year but it's been pretty pitiful up until i mean prior to last year i think the year before last it was seven percent or something atrocious like that all present well with one of the two and very difficult so the city has is going to have its first charitable contribution campaign starting january first and it is it are you going to require every employee to at least returned a piece of paper something that says i at the very least i don't wish to participate yes ok so there's a list and they have that formal ok so there is a goal of one hundred percent employees to least you know participate in even if they say i don't want to give anything but it's completely confidential right ok so so that's a that's a good incentive or a suggestion i did what i just you know do they have the ability to designate through united with the events of this year that we have something in south bronx and specific to that well the executive director of the south burlington resident so base to serve south burlington residents i think i think some of the money should should be used as a to shows that the city has a commitment to the employees very they have a commitment to the to the county and beyond right in the employees are being asked to show some of their commitment as well they are so that's good to to well that's an interesting point the matching you're talking about just united way so much in the united way contributions from the from the employees lawyers so another two point i love you two thousand we have one hundred thirty employees twenty six pay period so if we did if we matched three thousand three hundred eighty dollars just encourage everybody to give a dollar a paycheck so we get one hundred percent participation support something like that but your number if they give a dollar paycheck so it's twenty six bucks a year because we got a bunch of stuff here and then age well it's something we've given to traditionally the champlain valley agency and aging which is now age well everything i know and i caught we had i'm just putting it out there you know we talked about some i guess it would it wouldn't hurt us to know who is covered by united way what well i don't know if we're going to find out oh you know the group so let's let i would say if they're covered by united way then we then we match united way through the employees and don't give it other i just want to say one thing that if we give to united way instead of to the agencies themselves that there's a seven percent hundred fifty thousand the one thing for fifteen thousand i think we can make i think we i think we should be able to forget it he said ok fifteen thousand a somewhat arbitrary in what other municipalities do do is they take point one percent of their total general budget and for us i think that worked out to be fifty thousand that's we used to about forty to fifty thousand i'm not saying we should get more culture gives nothing every municipality does it differently or at least they have in years past but i've found in years past that we just weren't doing due diligence enough in deciding who gets this money and who doesn't and that's why it is separate committee which is what kinds of other me just how these head of they do they go they dig into the numbers they talk to the organizations and they come for the recommendation making like from one of those that last organization you met that i've never heard  well that's champlain valley agency and how much money would make a difference to them and if yeah i think anything thousand dollar a sure so why don't we just go down the list and decide what we're go to twenty five hundred would be employees for united way because we should show some support for of the city employees and let's just go down the list of decide how much for each other one and for the end of this we beat up fifteen thousand then we're done and i is that i mean the person rex is been working on creating the vision for underwood and they probably will want to some point to put a you know some sort of a structure that's pretty far away from  and they're going to have to run water to it right so my fear is that if they just put some kind of measly little water line in i don't know what kind of one line they're talking about whether it's just a hose the travels from no one farm road all the way down with some some spigot that the outreach and educational efforts that we are house or additional proof of improvements to that building and not support the water source but we are house existing they're working on it's a two thousand dollars a go a long way to  everybody is appreciative of a little bit there were help out that's all alright update to our conflict of interests and ethics so i can a favor did you know i know i have i have a question i do that so my only question is under article three it identifies who would applies to and it lists as of the date of this adoption committees and i just was it seems like there ought to be language that so my only concern was article three whether that captures or has language that includes in the middle of the year for we create a new meaning for maybe or something saying that it's not inclusive and solicit ok all right i was that was one of my concerns and to anyone else have any thoughts i mean i think it's don't want to flush out language i'll have a go but another committee to deal with exceptions but i'm curious of the model policy is that if you touched upon the notion of such a if say jim accused me of having a conflict of interest i disagree we could then refer to it in another body ethics it's a possibility to have you know whether you want to ask it but just i see that as a whole other communities do it and i don't see that in this policy and i'm guessing it wasn't in the model policy but i don't think we need another committee i think we've operated pretty well up to now as meeting i'm never here as i always go out west to be with my kids at christmas so that it's almost a disappointment to me i'm just wondering maybe it would be fun to do something in january for the