services were doing a seismic test in the area in the exploration for oil and gas and the school district property falls within that map and that project area space clea i just came to answer any questions about that and start off by saying basically what a seismic test is for those of you who don't know it's clear taken a number i need to ground to find the rock formations the purpose of doing that is to the first page of your package basically talks about the six depths of the process explains them in detail the first step is the initial cultural and access survey basically what takes place is the surveyors come out with a g p s device and set up the buffer zones on the specific property that we're looking to survey on  the next step of that process included with the cultural surveys the access survey where they're actually marking the points of laying the instruments out on that property the second step is for the source locations and g phone locations that's where they start to come out and lay lay out the devices and where things are going to be a third step of the process which we're not going to be we wouldn't be doing on your property we wouldn't be asking to drill shot holes or energy sources to place energy sources on your school property and basically what we're trying to do is find areas to lay the geophones here i have a geophone i can you that here in a few minutes real quick the next step is length of the geophones on the surface for the recording and then the next step number five is the recording of the seismic data that's when they create the roads throughout the township and throughout the county by bringing the roads what that does is create vibrations that go to these geophones that's how we record our data and the final step is the cleaning up  discussed the second page has a map of the locations of where we would like to place those objects the red we will be taking out those red squares on there would be taking those out of the out of the project for this portion of the properties those would be this energy points and shot holes when i reference shot holes or energy points when they put a three inch diameter hole in the ground about thirty feet deep and they put three point three pounds of dynamite in there and set it off this through vibrations if you get recordings from our g phones on understanding that it's a school property students liabilities things like that we're not requesting to do that we're questing to lay the recording devices on and if you see the blue squares those are the blue circles that those are the locations where we would like to lay the recording devices they will be adjusted probably closer to the roads the map has the more specific locations on the next page is a picture of this recording device i don't know if i was going to have access to an actual recorder so i think luna the picture page after that shows you the set up of the recording device on the these these are these are what elect the vibrations send it through and into the recorder there's three of these on each unit one benefit beneficial thing about our units are their wireless so there's not massive amounts of cable that are attached to the that's all they used to do it and that's all some of the older devices are with cables all across the properties these are nice because they're they're twelve feet wide stretched out there's also another set up that they can do in a pod you just set them up in a circle and it's much smaller an area hard to predict based before the survey the how they would set those up  initial is stretched out the other ways and in the pod formation those are all the specific details off the top or any questions regarding what we've gone over so far basically what we try to do is mark the maps like on an individual private property there's a lot of times of wells and springs and different till the lines and things like that we like to mark those off on the maps and we can avoid  or no they're not going to be on the on the problem they're only on the public roads they have what we do is go through each township and county and state roads and get the appropriate road bonds to be on those roads so the townships counties and state they're responsible for  our permission to be on those and they over see what happens on those roads i'm not specifically sure exactly what roads are bonded at this point because we're still you know the scutching out with some of the townships but the majority of the project  this map was just given to me today based on my discussion with one of the site tell representatives of the company that was actually collecting the data and he said to me that it's more than likely we would like to just request doing the  receivers and then what happens is some of the receivers were just again this first map was what they call preplanning out it's laid out for the entire project before any of the surveys or any of the discussions with the property owners take place so it's  holes going across the whole range in the middle of the property not that's not something something that we would we would do that again when they come out to set up those buffer zones that's something that would be offered out but again going back to the newer map and i get this was just handed to early ten minutes before i left so i already had the facts i apologize for that but basically the perimeter of the property what they do is they set them up ingrid's i think they're i forget how far apart they are actually i know that the actual receivers are in two hundred twenty foot intervals from one receiver to another as for the lines however wide their property is that looks like they've adjusted it to accommodate all through a lot of the subdivisions to see if we can lay some of the recording devices if he has these marked on here i'm assuming that we're going to be speaking with them or we have already spoken to them to lay those recorders on there and if we do go to a proper piece of property like that size is typically one recorder we we laid out there for three weeks that we were we discussed there are more places that you business landowners that may only oil and gas leases in the area that benefits them and their production the royalty checks monthly because of the production statistics show that production is up twenty to thirty percent if you do this if the if that is were clear it gives those on gas companies more efficient ways to extract oil and gas therefore it's a domino effect from that point it gives better yes it's more efficient and the production is increased i'm sorry that i'm confused you're saying that the information we're going to gather will cause the oil and gas companies to do something more efficiently why wouldn't they be doing those things more efficiently to clear of a picture more clear picture of the rock formations so that when gas companies can be more efficient by saying ok this is rock formation goes like this therefore the marcellus shale is right here we drill here with the horizontal legs out through that formation goes there rather than putting the horizontal legs out and missing missing a majority of the formation what it comes down to does that mean that if there is you know sizable amount of gas you find like under the schools if you do have  image more clear to compare other parts of the county with this arc and where the formations are on they can extract gas out of an area that's not lease and then what would the danger if any be if students and there's now way to get shocked or a no there is a battery on it they will be checked at least once a week probably more than you know if it's in an area or if they're stipulations that you guys have already started the actual survey process throughout most of the southern part of the project and they're working their way up the pain on when we would receive an approved permit and go through that process it would be a couple weeks we were just when we were talking about those two that's going to be in the wooded areas which is a bit of a steep terrain of places you described how that would be access with altering the course on in those type areas would they just walk in could make the entire property a walk on a helicopter drop these bags is that part of that that is what the helicopters do they drop bags of these receivers in certain locations we do make no fly zones in certain areas specifically with like horses if there's a horse farm or people on horses we make no fly zones in those areas we could also call many thought if i mean some people request that the helicopters come by so their kids can see them get that a lot even if they have horses but others you know request no fly zones to be in the area i don't know the locations where they're going to drop the the bags specifically but again if we make it a no fly zone or that's one of the biggest complaints is routes and different things like that in the saw if the ground soft all that is repaired to land owner satisfaction but again if we decide on making a stipulation of a  you know if it's a certain terrain that they can't get those vehicles on they have to walk those groups in and lay those receivers out so they'll go from one bag walk lay them out two hundred twenty feet apart get to the next bag yeah i don't like i said i don't know process the pretty but i understand the sensitivity of a school property in and coming in here with one realistic expectations you know we're willing to accommodate what whatever you know you guys as a group the side or the what this project is a little over one hundred square miles and the pain is going to be basically on how many companies would like to purchase the better from sites again the or significant paid into this area is the royalties for the landowners and the economy you keep saying that about the landowners but those are the very people who keep challenging their assessments and want to get there it's just smart so i don't i don't know if that's necessarily you know thank you i'm good evening thank you very much for the opportunity to come here this evening and and present to you my name is patrick regan i'm the pittsburgh regional director for the efficiency network also here with me this evening is david guarantee energy savings project one more day it could we have an experienced technical team we're going to give you more control over the project are easier to work with we're going to deliver to the district superior value and we have significant financial strength to support the energy savings guarantee and i'll get into all of these individual these as we move forward here so let's talk about our  experience technical team you know we're a large pittsburgh based team we have expertise in the areas of energy and to nearing and auditing construction project management financing commissioning and measurement and verification this you know this ten team has five hundred million dollars in aggregate project experience both here in western pennsylvania and beyond including significant k through twelve experience where we've delivered  successful projects to school districts across the state recent confirmation of really an exceptional technical team that we have a ten was our selection by penn state university to be their energy efficiency provider across all their campuses for the next five years they've set aside forty million dollars for the program you know interesting enough penn state had in innovative design build contracting model which is actually very similar to the contract model that you're using here at peter's township so we certainly think that were we're speaking to like minded individuals here tonight but what penn state was looking to accomplish was significant significant flexibility price transparency value and control over their energy efficiency projects and they selected tend to do that also important to note there were twenty companies that were vying for the work at penn state including our two competitors here this evening wanted to show you an organ as ational chart of the resources of individuals that are here in pittsburgh you know this is the ten team that would be available to work on the peters township project certainly some of these individuals up there and you can see your handout will be full time on the project and certainly some folks up there will also be will play supporting roles on implementing the projects if we're fortunate enough to be selected we're going to give peters township more control over the project you know we are as equally interested in a phased in approach to implementing energy efficiency projects as we are to a large bundle of projects so it's at energy efficiency projects you desire we pay particular attention when we're working through that in collaboration with you your capital budget your deferred maintenance items and certainly design desired projects that you're already have on the board that you're going to try to accomplish when we complete the design of the projects we load those up into what we call a smart chart and i'm showing you here a depiction of the of the smart chart really what this is is really  it's an informational tool for decision support so that so that it kind of each project can be presented to you with all the metrics associated with each individual project this smart chart is very helpful specifically  you decide to phase in projects over a period of time going to be easier to work with we are headquartered here in pittsburgh pennsylvania we're less bureaucratic than the competition we have senior leadership that will be directly involved with your project the first evidence of that is that we have our c e o here this evening to close the presentation and what you know was list senior leadership involvement decisions can be made much more quickly and we believe with much more flexibility than our competition provided the bio's of our c e o and president and chief operating officer rob campbell in these two individuals who will be available on the project to help make very quick decisions to help keep things moving forward now i'm going to  bring up dave robb to talk about the superior value we're going to deliver to the district thank you patrick patrick it asked that i commented this superior value and what we are able to do for our clients in that regard and quite simple terms it really became a simple as i mean at what our clients really wanted in the energy efficiency marketplace and that's over our personal experience of the last ten to twenty years and in many cases what they told us is they want to be able to work with companies that can help them to find the right projects and the right solutions for their particular exam instances to move forward but they also want to know that they were getting good value at the right price and then also have the flexibility as patrick explained to be able to do projects at their own pace as it made most sense or bundle projects versus maybe even just doing doing them face projects at a time and as a result we developed a platform around f transparency and we say full transparency we mean that alan to the individual sub contracts and material purchase orders so that our clients can understand exactly where all of the costs come from and more to that fact that we take the time to competitively pr those sub contracts and material purchase order so that you know you're getting the most appropriate low cost to start with before applying a single trance apparent multiplier to the projects for all of the services so that we can operate with our clients without any hidden fees or even any requirements for long term maintenance agreements and as a result combined with our technology and our process improvements we know that we're delivering the least expensive cost structure structure in the industry and by delivering in that regard we can deliver more scope for the available savings that our clients have we also work with our clients to develop our pre qualify their list of contractors experience contractors that we can be comfort within have had experience with the know that they deliver solutions properly but also so that we can work with the district to include material vendors that you've had a good experience with that you'd like to keep included in the project as well as subcontractors that may have been taking care of the district over the years want to make sure that they have an opportunity to be a part of a pre qualified list of contractors to be considered bottom line our sole objective is to deliver the best project at the best price for the school district on the next page we've identified the cost structure we've talked about it being transparent and simple but here we want to show exactly what we mean and for those of you who haven't read the r f p or the responses what was asked for is please describe a cost structure based on a hypothetical project car cost of six hundred thousand dollars and we talk about hard cost we're talking about again subcontracted labor as well as the material costs and so what we then did is delineated all of those percentages of work associated with each of these other key categories certainly the energy audit the design and engineering project management even our overhead and profit missional measurement verification when you add all of those different categories together you get the results in the disclosed markup of twenty nine percent and even more so employee and effective markup of twenty nine percent to simple is taking six hundred thousand dollars in hard costs and applying a one point two nine multiplier to come up with that total sell price now before some people might think that sounds like a lot of money but in reality what that covers is the development engineering or the design the energy engineering all of which go into place which i gather the scope of work then in our case we competitively procure you the best cost as well as construction management commissioning measurement verification including overhead and profit and that's a great value in the industry and it's let's there around half of the industry norm and so again we know that we have the lowest cost structure in the industry and can deliver our clients the greatest value what we also think it's about  important for us to describe is that to the extent that that's not readily apparent that we help you understand how others could view this in the industry and and present numbers differently and this is just a means of comparison to help you as you go through your evaluation should it be needed so in these other examples we've identified a scenario in the first or in the second column there where a competitor service fees could be higher utilizing that same projected hard cost perhaps with the assumption that it was competitively procured well in simple terms those numbers add up together in this particular example is a forty percent total markup and that's not reasonable to expect in this industry but in simple terms if you look at that markup difference  results in close to a seventy thousand dollars cost premium for implementing your project and if you assume that you may implement multiple phases of this project even if you implement five phases of work you're still looking at an overall program that's less than four million dollars that cost premium and that example works out to about three hundred thirty thousand dollars over that that five phase outcome another way the numbers could be presented differently is with regard to the hard cost themselves of course we assume that you had a hard cost in terms of putting together this example but in certain instances hard cost may not be competitively procured in which case you're not getting your lowest cost or in certain cases a vendor might still have very modest design project management fees and so forth but they could ask their subcontractors to instead incorporate design commissioning and project management in their cost categories in which case you end up with a hard cost of value that's higher than you would otherwise and to so if you end up with a higher heart cost starting at the top and i guess maybe this would help if we're looking here at say this number here instead of a six hundred thousand dollars hard cost for the same amount of scope you could end up with seven hundred thousand dollars very easily i don't hear at the bottom with the same percentages of fees you could look less expensive when you do that calculation from a disclosed markup but under an effective markup you're really looking at a number that is substantially higher and that over a five phase scope of work you're almost looking at a five hundred thousand dollar cost premium and the reason we're going through this exercise help you understand how these numbers come from come together and how we're also trying to ensure that we bring greatest value to peters township on this last example if both of these scenarios occur a higher heart cost for the same amount of  same scope of work plus higher fees you can see the dramatic increase in that total multiplier and you're coming up with close to a million dollar cost premium under those scenarios so to the extent that all of the costs haven't been seemingly or transparently presented we see you know we encourage you to drill down into those cost categories perhaps the simplest thing to ask folks in the industry is well your partner contract with peters township school district under transparent multiplier markup based on competitively bid hard costs and that's probably the simplest clearest way to know that you're getting the best value for the district and have the most comfortable environment in which to move forward bit about our company really in this industry very unique there aren't many companies like ours around the country campbell and i started this company in just over two years ago now having been in the industry for more than twenty years both of us and we learned a lot of what how the industry was was evolving and what customers really want because of that we believe we're a very unique company and a unique company for the district here peters township because we've got the niche experience it's customarily only found in very very large companies and we can offer that niche experience we have some of the most we have some of the most competent and experienced professionals in the industry working in our pittsburgh office it's very unique there might be two or three companies that are type around the country but the other thing is that we have the financial resources to be able to support this project and i wanted to talk a little bit about that this evening number one obviously a significant bonding capacity that's table stakes in our industry and we've got that abundantly to to us to support our work program strong capitalization this is something i'm very excited to talk to you about today our lead investor is adams capital management there are a billion dollars in managed in under management they're based in swiftly they're a local company probably the highest regarded venture capital firm in the area and one of the leading firms in the country so there are main investor but wh really interesting about this company and what the way rob and i started the business was that we are majority employee and every member of our key management team has made a significant personal financial investment in the company to seed the company now obviously adam scott will put a lot more money in because we appreciated value but in the big our company there is a lot of accountability in our company there is personal commitment so you can be assured that there will be the highest level focus attention to detail and a commitment from our team that's very unique and it's the way we felt that it would be the best way for us to build a foundation for a business that we can have lots of success in to build a great from a great foundation  leadership is personally invested in this company i thought i'd share that with you and then resources to support the energy six savings guaranteed i think it's really and certainly we had that and i'd like to talk a little bit about the nature of the rest because one of the one of the key we've that we've been on both sides all of us have been on both sides of the of the of the fence being a very large companies and smaller companies it's very important understand the nature of the risk the way these energy savings calculations are built this is straight engineering and math these projects don't miss their energy savings calculations almost never if yes take a poll in the industry how many checks are written for misses on energy calculations it doesn't happen very often it's because this is an exact science and that's something that's very that was very important for me to mention this evening but above and beyond that this company has the capitalization and the financial strength to be able to support any misses that we would have that we don't forsee that we will just in closing i just i you know really appreciate again the opportunity to be here it's a very we have a very unique story a ten it's again it's been and the story really is is summarized in the people and i like to maybe remove myself from the list because i don't like talking about myself but we been able to attract some of the very best talent and they're very very eager for the opportunity to work for this district to do something very unique you know when we read the r f p document we see that there's a lot of focus on transparency and there's a lot of focus on technical competency we believe that we bring which i don't have a problem that when you have over six percent and i'm a little bit confused because project management to me shouldn't somebody have built an overhead into that i'm not saying you're right you're having an additional six percent for a generalization of overhead and i'm just like he was about that because i've seen many of these before just for the i guess the into the question i mean typically that's how first of all that's all the documents so that we submitted you know based on the document we're not going to try to sell you a service contract or equipment or a commodity of some sort whatever it is we're our focus sole because we try to we want to be the very very best productions to be the very best in the specific business of our free energy efficiency project are there are painful and we do business in a lot of different service areas so in the rules change from if you're doing business and you know penn electioneering and you're doing business in which for i mean the all over the country essentially you know we're we have an office also in johnson supervises our development group and larry good leskie is the director of our regional markets you guys are probably missing the familiar face of joe who'd actually unfortunately couldn't make it and one of our other engineers had a death in his family so he's attending to that so we're here and with that larry like to thank you larry god bless with constellation energy and as has mitch said i'm the executive director for our regional energy efficiency business based here in pittsburgh i lead a team of six originators and our focus is to work with school districts municipal governments to help them relative to sustainability and energy efficiency so thank you for having us today on the on the introduction slide on slide number one  addition to joe and bill button there are three additional support staff that are dedicated to this project and if we're fortunate to be selected they'll be faces that you become very familiar with chuck moore who is our project a supervisor of construction and so as you think about this project we're going to undertake once you get through the technical element there's going to be a construction element chock who's here in our pittsburgh office will lead the construction implementation he leads a team of individuals here pittsburgh and would be responsible for that implementation and bobby hall will be your onsite project manager so bob is going to be the one they are going to deal with day to day on making sure that schedules are met relative to building occupancy measures are installed we're communicating with staff and faculty and making sure all the security background checks are completed and then nick open karnik open cars are program manager he's really that liaison between the customer and our organisation so they'll be somebody that you see on site on site as well so that that will move to  number two we try to develop this presentation recognise we have twenty minutes so my and my hope is that we'll touch on some differentiators with constellation and hopefully some things that you see value and as you undertake this energy conservation project in your district when when we think about energy conservation from the constellation side it is for us all about energy and when we think about energy there's two sides to the equation there's the demand side the meter to spin and everything behind your meter that's causing you to consume energy but then there's also the supply side how you buy energy and procure energy where those two worlds meet is an energy conservation project one of the things that you know to keep in mind is if we're selected you really don't have to buy power from us that's not something that you're required to do because we are agnostic when we approach projects but the perspective that we bring to the project is very valuable what i mean by that is today you consume energy at some level what happens if you change that consumption profile which you're going to do through this project for instance you consume a million kilowatt hours today there's some supplier out the providing you electricity today based on that profile a million kilowatt hours if you change that profile what does that do your supply contract whether it's your electricity supply contract natural gas supply contract so as you undertake this initiative one of the things to be very cognizant of are those interactions positive interactions and there's negative interactions as a board one of the decisions you have in front of you is this financial commitment to this project the underpinning of that financial commitment is the utility savings generated we always talk to customers about this make sure those utility savings are going to be realized and the way you do that is making certain that there is an understanding in a linkage between district we are coming to you as an integrator of technology and efficient technology systems we don't manufacture products we don't represent products that are manufactured the comfort level to you have as a district is  going to get the best application for a given situation so using light bulbs for instance there may be manufacturer a manufacturer be manufacturer see really make sure that this manufacturer selected is going to be the most advantageous to the district there's not really a vested interest in making sure that we put in manufacturing so as you undertake this that's an item that you want to think through as you look at this project in the breath and scope of the project approval process if you  on we'll talk a little bit about the references that we have not only in a cave through twelve market here in the commonwealth but also in some governmental and city projects that we've done throughout pennsylvania so when you think about our office here in green tree i always  that as a center of excellence and what i mean by that is the staff of twenty five individuals that we having green tree have the capability to do everything from concept design through full project implementation and commissioning oh under one roof and so the team that would implement this project would all come from our local office really not bringing in resources from outside to implement this project and last is the corporate backing and you think about corporate backing come to find that a few ways  one i always like to define it as bench strength like to talk about bench strength because although we have the ability implement this project today things change as you know as a board you probably see attrition from your school district today some teachers move on what are we go so important when you're looking at implementing a project that could under could go twelve months in a construction window give you comfort level that there are resources whether they're here or in our philadelphia office that we can draw and if necessary to make sure that we fulfilled commitments made in our implementation contract and then lastly is the financial up underneath of this project is a savings guarantee so you're to take dollars and the analogy that i always use is if i can show you a way to take twenty cents of every dollar that you spend on utility today pull that back from the tail of the providers invest it in your district that is that something you're interested in most of our clients say yes but how that twenty cents is guaranteed not only today but in the future is really the essence of a project so as you go through this evaluation process take the time to really dig into how those guarantees are going to be made and how you're going to know as a board that you actually receive the savings that it was presented by each of each of the companies here see i'm going to turn to you to slide three and i want to ask actually ask eric johnson who leads our technical and engineering group here in pittsburgh to talk through the next two slides really talk about our technical approach to what you can to support if constellation were selected for this project yes thank you larry appreciate it again as larry said i'm kind of in charge of the engineering side which goes through and tries to help develop the project and so that's kind of our central role in generic what we do is consolation is kind of we try to treat a construction project that you have that's already you know set developed in scope and expand it grow it so there's a lot more input from folks and we do this is a step process so everybody foll ows what we're going through and there it's all open and transparent to you folks you know the first thing we need to do to be able to determine the projects successful is figure out what the goals are right you have certain ideas what you want this project to look like we have the expertise to be able to bond alyson develop it and show the energy savings needed if you have capital intensive projects that need energy dollars to offset that we can help developing craft that the program to meet your needs but there's a lot of interaction that kind of happens that that phase so we know what the program needs to look like at the end deal so if you don't have a go it steps to beginning the end could look something totally different then what you might have had in mind so that's one of the things we like to do first and that is this flow diagram continues forward you'll notice there's a little breaks all the way through and what i like to call this little breaks is maybe a refresher meetings all through the process which the administration will probably sit down and go through everything but as far as you folks and bring you updates on what's happening we'd like to do this to build ground committee so after establishing the goals and ideas with you folks again make sure that's exactly what you had in mind and then we would go through and develop the scope's so to meet these goals what's the work going to take to do that and we would go through and determine some of the the kind of the quick payback low hanging fruit type measures attention so you know what the intent is and how to get through then we start developing the project and that's when you start bottling all to do all of that information together and creating something that  is is a valuable and we could have a project that financially works out that again meets the current construction standards that you have here and slowly start crafting get and then come back and meet with you and say this is what we things look like is this the right track all through this it's not just an engineering effort to you folks we're going to bring in other experts whether the folks who will determine if the projects successful we call that already option the construction folks who are actually going to build it the bobby halls and shopping mall that larry mentioned before so they're understanding what we're doing so they can help us craft the program and again to meet stuff before as you'll see a lot of reports and paper and meetings to determine what it is to play and stuff like that then the construction is when you turn on the ground and we'll have somebody here all the time you know whenever contractors here will have a person here we call our site superintendent and they help the flow of the project so you know you just don't have somebody coming in on superbikes will have the person place  you all the way through commissioning and everything else happens in this case to make sure what we're saying is actually going to work to prove that again is the measurement verification system and that's way we can you do it internally or third party it's your choice have somebody come through and make sure the savings are being realized the commissioning that we had school is going to work on the measures we're doing rationally happen so that's kind of the for both sides of the meter is one of the things he said and we don't only do that from what your side what you actually pay the bill but also then the commodity side which could you know offer to do that on price to upon something that meets the needs fixed that's beyond kind of our set sco on flames is one that we see a lot of that just cracked or broken plumbing flames or piping or anything like that and if there's we don't keep an eye so then those can be used to con any down project so these are a couple of things that we do on both sides of the contract in addition to a ton of our process throws so  going back and forth and that's all funded through project self rebates is also some part so anyone in the amount of rebates we can find and go after and apply for that all be rolled into the project so there's not a separate to do  you bill separately or we can we have i think in this case we're saying it's will take the with the soon the risk one of the things with pricing pretty audit the numbers that you'll see are usually they range from zero to one hundred thousand dollars and it's all oppressed things really what it comes down to for the u s code sells if there's an uncertainty about the series there as there is and that's that's a continue because that's life long in the projects so whether your terms are twelve years or twenty years or eighteen years whatever life cycle you want there is that program extra cost a year because it's not all some and again now that perm or that could be as long as you want so even if you have a let's say the whole programs of twelve year financial the a depending on how you want to smash or you'd only need to go couple years and then the rest could be what we call retro commission so the reporting the say the savings are per materializing would only happen for a few  years and then you can ply that money elsewhere or you can just stop the program tired the the example i give a slight right once you do the lighting changes that savings is going to be pretty s for the life of that lamp ballasts assembly right you don't need somebody to come in every year to say that saving energy compared to what you were to begin that's just a waste of mine so we can either keep on generating pieces of paper to say and i can't yet and i'm reading off of what we submitted to the firm's cost structure for design built fees was fifteen percent measurement verification cost structure was one percent report generation was a half a percent overhead seven profit eight and v one the total is twenty one so th now when you said that down you know someone do you actually sub out to other people or do you have for the actual construction or do you have your own employees we saw about the local contractor chair we do not do leading edge when we look at our image of the protocols and as eric described it to come back to this board subsequent boards every year it regurgitate a report there's no value at the end day our hope is that we're spending those dollars within your facility doing retro commissioning and if that that may be a new term to the board may not so just very quickly retro commissioning is getting in and working with your facility staff to make sure that the baselines of are set up to generate savings are still in place and sometimes those get overridden for whatever reasons or a piece of equipment goes out of commission so we feel it's a lot better use of financial resources to come back in and really do that retro commissioning to make certain that the measures of protocols were put in quickly we will be investing engineering resources for this project and as he said the bandwidth is is that zero up to the hundred thousand dollars level when joe dac who is the lead on this project came to me  he said you know the district really wants to get this done and because i don't want a breakage fee to be the barrier for the board to move forward and so we made a business decision i made a business decision within the organization to say we will meet you and i will go at risk for that fee so we fully recognize it we could put engineering resources forward to develop an investment grade audit and this board may decide not to move forward we're comfortable with that decision it's a business decision that we made a commitment we made to the district so again just i want to just emphasize that that it does span but that business decision so quickly again i know we're running up on time slide five i'm not going to spend a lot of time i'm on it this just gives you a breath of constellation so to your question about our revenue we are a retail energy company and as you'll see on the left hand side that retail energy really crosses the energy continuum so it's everything from natural gas supply electricity supply which is what i would call very tactical energy items to the very sophisticated we think about the solar installations in the central plant installations that we do so what you'll see you'll see it a significant amount of solar projects that we're doing unfortunately we're not doing them here today in pennsylvania because the utility market doesn't support it we do significant amount and in boston in the massachusetts area california arizona and you know hopefully we'll see some time where we'll see the renewable market pennsylvania come around it's not there today on to our energy assets business and one that we're most proud of is we we operate the central utility plant at heinz field so we look at our revenue side you know it's really a conglomeration of all these different elements that we do i manage the p and l for energy efficiency business the profit loss statement for that business the company is significantly committed to trying to find ways to grow our energy efficiency business and i get a lot of questions from clients and they say will you supply energy why do you want to show folks ways to use less of your product and it really comes down to just being a good environment steward and we recognize and understand that energy is at the find amount there's only so much energy in the space at a cost effective number so if we're looking to help support the economy making sure that we're doing things to keep cost effective energy in the marketplace is is paramount to us and whether it's you know you have two choices either add generation or you show folks ways to reduce energy and so our focus has been on so i hope that answers your question relative to the elements of our on slide six and then we'll go to our reference slide slide six is really that energy equation that i had mentioned and this is if you think about it today what you see in your budget and development you see in your budget when you think about energy is you see these line items within that twenty six hundred account based on the objects and today we're talking about energy conservation but you don't see kilowatt hours or m c f of gas or gallons of water you see dollars and your child as a board to manage those dollars and so that's really when you think about it that's sure that's your cost right that's the cost of energy and it's really made up of those components price and quantity prices you know the to cents per kilowatt hours dollars prim c f gallons of water air kid tell you a great story i won't do it justice but he'll tell you a story about perspective and price perspective so we had the opportunity to work with a school district in west virginia to mention but i would just classified as significant but that went back over many many years and because we had the perspective to really understand the utility side of the business and our analysts were kind of going through the bills we were fortunate to be able to secure a refund from the local utility for the school district which they were very happy to get because it was a it was a significant amount of money and so i say to you when we think about this project it does touch both sides of your meter whether it's direct supply how your contracts are going to be affected by reducing your consumption or in the case of just being able to find billing errors and making them real for you the quantity side we talked about that reduction making sure that we really recognize how much energy is dropping when it's dropping in the value that energy and then the time frame what i would say to you about time is when you think about this project that you're a you're undertaking one of the challenges with our industry today is a lot of customers are asked to sign up and agree to escalations and your utility rates and we start to look at cash flows of projects you hear custom you hear companies say well we're going to put an escalator of two and a half to three percent a year on your utility  what i would say to you is what you just agreed to is every year yury energy costs are going to go up three percent whether they do or not we believe that our model allows them allows you some budget stability because we have an understanding of the markets i'd rather sit here and say  a really it may increase one one of the half percent but there's ways to manage that for you so it's all about that perspective and you would think say well how does that two and a half three percent really play and then my project and what happens is if you take a dollar savings today  percent three percent three percent it allows you to get a bigger project but when the board sits back and says we'll look at mit bill and you told me i was going to save one hundred dollars and i only save seventy why oh because we didn't hit that with the escalator so then the escalator starts to regime cost and then it starts to make sense so i would say to you today as you undertake this project one of the things i would take a really hard look at is how u s collate those utility savings and it's a business discussion and we recognize that and i would ask you to take a really hard look at that going forward i think we have some unique approaches that would help that issue lastly a lot next to last slide i have a sustainability in action i'm pretty passionate about this program this is a program for us that you know we just finished up the bookshops in indiana that we incorporated with which project but for us what sustainability in action is is it takes this project that you're going to undertake out of the boiler room and brings it to the classroom there's a lot of great things are going to happen financially with this project there's a lot of great things are going to happen in vire mentally and from an infrastructure standpoint but it's projects being implemented in an area of education so we want to find a way to take it out of a class out of the boiling remembering it's the last room and we have some very unique ways to do that we're doing that with clients today it's educating students about the benefits of the project and educating the community about the benefits of the project our hope why is that important two reasons each until you hear about green jobs today in the economy you know a lot of students sit back and say what does a green job  here's a here's a way to kind of demonstrate what that is the other side of the equation is our hope that we can teach it goes from the classroom to the family room because that's where it gets very powerful because those are the energy consumers of tomorrow that's the family that's consuming energy and for us we feel like it's kind of close the circle when you think about the energy content of the person that manages that for us lauren ferrari she's here in our pittsburgh office and again if i'm fortunate to be selected she'd be the person that would lead the implementation of a sustainability action program here to the ship and then lastly the last slide i put together and including the presentation for just our projects success stories in pennsylvania so as you see we've broken him in the three  buck three areas on slide a some of the city and county projects that we have that we've been successful in implementing on the middle column of the school districts that we've implemented and then in the orange column you see the other governmental chua's like governmental projects that  have a at home i have a past your chip a cheerleader because i want to go back home i will tell you what your she graduated and so when we also introduce a couple of us and i work in the energy group that's all i do is energy projects and i've worked for siemens almost ten years now and previous to that i ran on my own construction company and ran the maids construction for the oil for six states so i come from a different the construction site world do steve campbell tonight he's also peter's concha president with he's your service advisor for the district in the controls which we have over sixty percent of your controls are siemens he has two daughters ages buildings k through twelve school district projects in the state of which we perform many well over ten references and we can supply instantly to you in those buildings are pretty typical  superior super sophisticated buildings these types of projects require good engineering but most of the projects have issues with control system issues that need to be upgraded with newer technology energy efficient whitman and technology most of the projects are typically thirty percent water thirty water conservation thirty percent lighting thirty area and form its contractor we look it's a great way to reduce those energy costs in your buildings we look at your project we look at your utility spend and we think there is an opportunity to save the district tween one in four  million dollars over the next fifteen years we understand the district may decide that they want to finance it for a shorter period that's up to you we're very flexible in that we think there's a huge opportunity to save a lot of money and put those funds back into your buildings and from visiting other k through twelve school districts and being a resident this area you have the huge challenge of taking a limited amount of funds to try and create the best education the best facilities that all this very difficult to do and i've sat at the pleasure of sitting in on at four or five of your board meetings and watch the passion that's in those words meetings and the teamwork of people that really want to do the right thing for th the next page is kind of a overview of siemens it's a two hundred million dollar company the big giant that's in all different proficiency is from building technologies to solar to when we're a very large the next piece is really we think why you're asking us here tonight is to say why sometimes we could come in tonight with a bunch of engineering for a four hour walk through your buildings and the value of that huge binder that we would give you would be pretty much meaningless until we give you the best and great audit so looking at your buildings it's we can use general rules that will be solved only walk through the buildings but those numbers those numbers that you go to contract with and our next page is our project team and one picture up to the right ralph thompson i kind of fixed his picture today so he's a little squeeze them rough probably is a little bit rounder than that six to thirty seven years of experience on this page we have all different levels on all different projects and i think it's pretty impressive page and i know you're are if be asked the question about local project variance and we certainly have the local team that we operate we operate as a region the next page for people you know my four dollars of success we look at local expertise from our zone and we certainly have that with that other page that team is also working on a federal thirty million dollar central plant city of cleveland we're just a word of that and we also have two hundred thirty seven employees in our zone we looked at and the r f p was it didn't allow us anything to explain that we have national centers of expertise and today we don't operate  economy use your cellphone to find information from around the world information and tech is key and for us when you're looking local if you just have a local group of engineers you know what's works and that's what has worked but if you want to find out what's working around the country that can apply here you've got the best of both worlds you've got a balance and we have experts in our chicago headquarters they can be brought to bear on on your project at any time and have centers of excellence from to controls experts any type of thing lead experts you have a communication specialist there that's working on a beta test site for virginia tech currently huge cost saving our process we want to talk about our process our process we believe is very similar to other companies within this industry we start with a preliminary audit because we want to keep your engineering dollars spent down we want to do  input from you find out what pieces of it you want to explore further other places you may have a capital plan it says you know we're really going to do construction there in a couple years it doesn't make sense for us to do that and then the detailed analysis once we get that  understanding of where the direction of the project and then our attorneys negotiate a contract and same thing with implementation typically about six months the one year it's the typical k through twelve construction project and then the guarantee phase the own porton phase where we're your partner for the full fifteen twenty years whatever length of time you decide performance to me this is all about who's done it if you've been there three billion and guarantees that only more than twenty two thousand three hundred successfully completed projects m and d stands for measurement verification which what that means is how do you know you've got the savings well some companies say we have proprietary software to me i think about proprietary software i think about it i can get a guy out of carnegie mellon a young college student he can write the software to save say you save twenty million dollars or uses the federal government a big company as i suggested before our company stands behind these projects why not a third party guarantee extra cost it's an insurance policy between a third party company typically an insurance policy has a so if you miss the savings mark there's going to be the ductile that's not covered and then the company issuing it is going to have to make payments for that so that cost is there and realistically small companies want to play try and gravitate towards this saying it's better we've never had a project where we've had to go to litigation or anything on our guarantees we've actually written checks like given to you most people this question orde question is have you ever written a check and we wrote one to lay claim community college and they absolutely loved it there are one of our best references we're working on projects there are siemens investment group is working on a project they're working so performance proven success all our project management managers go to the project management institute spend about forty hours a week a year in training they're all certified and our school district measurement verification process has many success stories from the state of pennsylvania this is a fellow that's for pennsylvania and we always say show me somebody you've done work this project with local and we can many times the next phase or most a lot i illustrated this because we have a lot of phase two projects where the number one energy services company in the country to come back for a face to where a client will say five ten years later we want to do more some things i mean covered energy costs have gone up we want to do more we're called back for the second phase and means we did the first phase right and even there you saw it fail at school district and some other local projects which many were still back with our four he's again people local and national expertise we think that's hugely important for you our process pretty well defined and i like to say is no surprises because in construction work the former construction manager i don't want rises i want to know what i'm getting i don't want anything hidden i want everything up right now me as bad as it can be so the next one is a potential slide where i broke it out in the three different areas the first area is the traditional performance contracting it's kind of orange reddish color under this light mechanical see building controls lighting water we talked about most of that but there are three items e m c security life safety and pastes that i'd like to work or go through in the next stages but we have those other areas from those other offerings we can bring to bear for this case global is a utility procurement company as well as a utility bill management company i know from sitting in on the board meetings i think you just signed an arrangement for purchasing with the i you are correct and so that's probably gone what i will tell you is that even though a lot of school districts are going that direction state of pennsylvania is talking with pace right now in a couple different institutions siemens found this company to take care of our real estate with two hundred thousand employees across the u s it took care of our real estate for every dollar we paid them we got twelve dollars in savings  mess reports on them so that you can manage directly from them so there may be an opportunity there we're currently negotiating a final contract with west virginia university where they're going they have estimated they'll say that ninety thousand dollars a year through and develop those reports based on her till he builds on that contract our company has taken a process where we can hook into buildings and we can take all your energy use each in your building and compile a daily report that will give you a profile of your buildings and do it in real time but it will fill your i t guys with so much pipeline that they won't like it as a slug system so running a daily report is pretty efficient we can see your utility profile you'll have to invest in meters we don't know whether you have digital meters or not we can hook into those plus run times through the control system we can develop reports we can develop a profile and also tell you how you buildings are running so on a daily basis you can find of systems are wasting energy and systems are over need overwritten and you know where to send people otherwise you get utility bills that's thirty days later thirty days by the time you get a report you're sixty days out this is a great cost saving a pretty low cost mean a university of pennsylvania we just left them and it's about a thirty thousand dollar fee to set it up and probably twenty thousand going forward on a yearly basis which they'll say that many times over this is obviously a smaller campus on number of buildings so it would be pretty economical to do it salman's if you invest in sea ice in your choice say we like you and we want your honest company a company that wants to work with us and you have the expertise our energy group we have we also have a partner which we have a superintendent of schools who is from the chicago city chicago area named charles cullen early is and has an awesome job he travels from alaska to florida to new york helping schools any works with teachers creating an educational curriculum where he we won best in your school from community colleges to school districts where one school district for give us some examples he did a solar project students took panels apart assembled them and had a research project during the year and then took them apart and cleaned them at the end of the year there are examples of fabrication labs and they said what's a fab labs it's three d printers we have one local school district that we're working with is really interested in that one of the first people to make a fab labs actually from mount lebanon and she's in contact and is willing to work with this project so siemens believes in education so strongly we do a lot of charitable work through the education funds so one vest back in there that's tens of thousands of dollars over and above what the project give  schools we have the students because we believe these are learning examples for students and the and when i see with students in the township and college students they're all going to college when i'm not quite sure what i want to be we're going to go and have college degrees when they come out and lots of debt and they're still unsure so trying to find a learning example of the engineering project is absolutely amazing it's not fayette we had them job shadow our engineers we had them develop a participant a state competition for public speaking our management team reviewed their presentation they came to our office gave them feedback and they were one of the finalists in the state so we look at your project this way to do education there's a way to get so involved and i took the liberty of making a slide that says making a choice i mean i submitted this slide because probably for the first time because i'm a local here and i'm going to see you a grill giant eagle someplace and i'm going to say hello and i want to say back regardless of my choice but i needed to talk to you like a friend and say here is what we have we have types of esko is you have the traditional ask those which are the big boys that like siemens that are hundred million dollars been around a couple hundred years and then you have another group of s co's which are the start ups and in this business i started with one of these start ups on one nine hundred ninety eight ninety nine about fifteen years ago in that group where canadian start started came it's called rose technology three years in the pittsburgh sold some projects we built our engineering presence synergy came knocking until he got us cincinnati ohio bought us for thirty four million off they fell apart few years time at a new company some of us i went to siemens the other group part of our group went to purchased there was a three year two or three year in on compete agreement and efficiency network i guess that's five companies ten years has about the life expectancy on a project of them of an i pho so when you have a project i believe respectfully you would like to have somebody is going to be there at the end of a fifteen year period because the same group of guys make money they sell stock i made stock money when was with the canadians who go to the next company you keep started so give me a little idea of the types of esko so our business up which ten years ago there was eight hundred certified certified by the state of pennsylvania five are still the same engineering and national i talked about the benefits of having a local experience in your project team and i talked about national lowest cost you're caught your report talks all about this but we're two to three percent different in all of us and in that the cost the  sometimes you have plus or minus a senate things will be asked for the canadians asked for was well we have the cost of the guarantee was fifteen percent was hidden in the contract by the time we got to and they said fifteen percent more cost the contingency the best way to do this is an open book model we have an open book pricing med method we use it for the federal government we use it for west virginia university it discloses off costs or we have natural national purchasing agreements we have your controls building our building controls are going to be put through to you without an additional markup with another firm purchases them we'll put that entire markup on top of the controls so we have a competitive price advantage for that or three percent i don't know why they're so full percentage they said for siemens we're already we've already checked that we're at three percent for this project there is an extra one percent i don't know why there's that difference and then the last thing is our experience will they be there getting down to the end of it all and got two more slides to go the seaman's difference it till the rebates all the companies can give you rebates we give you for your credits because we  open book pricing and the transparency that goes with it our fire life safety team is going to give you a ten year plan so that you can have a plan for the forseeable future and our department of homeland security expert joe was going to give you a three five and ten year plan along with a purchasing plan and lastly our sustainability education investment group once invest in your school district with a project that your teachers helped create some interest for that last page for my presentation is the seaman's difference we have two hundred twenty five thousand dollars for the additional benefits over on top of the project and we're going to build it at the lowest cost open book transparency or lower cost more value we have a not to exceed price there will be no change or we think we have the best guarantee i want to thank you for your attention time tonight i know it's been a long night and i'm so apologize days i've run out of material i've given you everything everything i can give you from fine essential nearing ten years with this company i can tell you it's one of the best companies that i've ever worked for they care they stand aside behind their projects  resort their results would be turned in would be might be taken to some other experts in the industry and we asked for an on disclosure agreement before we do that because there's a competitive nature of what we do we also respectfully suggest that the way the costing is structured in there there's no penalty for mine and we've seen this in a lot of energy projects where it's plus or minus ten or five ten or fifteen percent  in the state used to do that and have three companies go out in a school district and come in and at best lay different projects and they estimate savings estimates will be higher or lower and companies get selected based on that  and area which has no teeth and people at penn state of told us that project typically has about sixteen different areas to savings eight of them stay the same from the preliminary or get tossed the other four get changed  changes and there are changes and additions and it we think that the way it's performed in the way it was submitted is not advantageous it can be advantageous to the person who is the most creative with  six and so that's one of the tools that a smaller company fights that argument is they can't stay with the resources we have is unparalleled so what happened was as we go through the ten and fifteen and then the next component was they said oh by the way we have a contingency you can negotiate that at the same question in your aura and we don't know where that are he came from but that pricing component is brand new what ca contingency prep question is part of it is every other project i've been on and i've been doing this since ninety eight has the contingency component was the pricing is in there we're not sure what pricing is supposed to be in there are not supposed to be in there and we're wondering how it arrives so i'm not trying to be critical of board because i know this board is all about transparency harry and i'm giving you a professional suggestion that there is a lot of times energy service companies and this is a hard discussion to have one should get selected public officials don't like to admit they made the wrong decision i've yet to see it happen in every public official i touch that we don't have all that but it doesn't happen i've had consultants on these jobs we were on a project in the northern part of the state it was a medical facility and half of the facility was shut down and we talked to the consultant was from chicago and he said your savings are less than the other competitors and said yeah we're well it's in water here the water savings have been flushed in ten years we said well we know we adjusted for that but the client still sees the higher numbers and people choose that because these are very hard decisions so there is there is some gamesmanship in here the we're not sure what's all in there and how it works presented to us and these are the three we're going after and you're saying that you don't want to provide that to us because you're worried about getting into the hands of the competitors we understand possibly we're told that the information was going to be shared with their friends in the energy service community our proposals there is a certain professional decorum that we assume that when we give this to the school district that stays within the district then information isn't shared with our competitors so when that statement was made in the first time in my career i had to ask for a non disclosure agreement because i didn't want somebody to have a copy of our proposal and walking around it on a here's c n n this is what their pricing here's their confidential pricing that you have a project that's worst almost three million dollars possibly more there is huge dollars at expense and having somebody taking this round and i know there are people in this room that mrs bowen i think work for ciii and some other places  you look at large companies those companies are you know those these are competitive marketplace were extremely competitive we didn't get three billion dollars for the projects i being axed expensive you get with the federal government if you maybe further work projects for the federal government by the time they're done with you you know you have squeezed you and we've won we just want to thirty million dollar project in cleveland for the federal courthouse for an energy plan so i'm sweating because i have a small sweater on one hundred questions so that tough but we do this for a living and we didn't we didn't mean any disrespect to the committee we understand it's a hard job you know but everybody's within two percent if you get all the numbers and there are all the same we did a project we did a project at a large facility here i don't want to name which one had a consultant come in and we competed against some of these same compan and the client came back five times and said siemens was a clear leader including pricing we were last so i just to respectfully suggest that there may be a better way to do that pricing model that's more fall of the federal guidelines the way how does  and all inclusive because your project has no penalty if you get selected and there's waste places to hide on when you highlighted the four year credits along with intel any rebates is that something that siemens gives and other companies down i'm not sure are we find it for our clients some companies know about that utility area we're in the field of companies are forced to get energy efficiency credits they trade them like a little stock exchange seaman sits on that exchange one of our clients was approached and said well we'll give you seventy percent we'll thirty percent of these projects tend to be about the control systems times your plea when i'm just confused about on that specific no is if siemens controls are already sixty percent and point which we we will be adopting soon but it shows all the projects and what we intend to do for fourteen fifteen some of the projects because of the scope that we have not reviewed in detail or have not discussed any of the information with an architect may have a question we don't know how much money to put aside to to complete all that we don't know how far we want to go with any renovations or  up so that's why those question marks are there and i think as we go further like to just keep these projects on there because they are on the top district wide list of the top fifteen or sixteen projects that we have propose three fourths of the way down the sheet for the pleasant valley we would like to finish that you know project moving that of course depends on the esko whether we do have an escrow whether we're going to do it with our capital projects etc number two the masonry project over at mcmurray we have it we have it's already out there specifications i should say we're waiting for a walk through on the project it was kind of a scale  scaled down or a little different version than what we initially had with the architect looked at the project and said we'll work we cut corners let's get this done first this is the outside of our child we're still going to do a lot of the recruiting and grinding and everything and some silly so we're looking into those because we'll come in and do and i think the second week in april we will be looking at been discussing with some of the building ministry or swee we would like to get back on board with some of the replacement of the carpeting in some of the school rooms that is something that  galt has and probably discussed with the building principals and he took his walk so we want to move forward finally this last one number five right now it was something that we had discussed a few years ago and because of the other projects on there down below we're looking at asphalt repairs we honestly look at the building in the conditions of the buildings and driveways and parking lots of the district put some money aside so maybe we can do some repairs security cameras those are cameras in the buildings as well as on the buses we're getting you know other security measures measures for our buildings at all times course we do have some conquer every concrete repairs that we to have performed in the district but and then finally in some of the states that we've had some incidents with in in some issues with some of our loading docks with his oars having walkways and hand in hand and a place that's something we want to look at throughout the district but i think for now if we could look at you probably see on the board agenda words permission tonight for the five projects up but up above that have a number by we would like to said i can't i could be wrong but i heard a member when they were talking about doing a number five they're installing a walking path from the athletic field to the restaurant and i could have sworn that they decided not to do it like it was a decision not to do it for some reason and i don't know whether it was because the path that was going to take it was going to be too expensive for what it was i'm not sure are we sure did those rash terms are open when ever there are king and that feel old those are some of the things that i'd like to know because i could have sworn chose not to do that but i could be wrong if anyone was on the board at that time because i remember that was along the same time when they were creating the roster and correct is that  correct yeah but i remember there being a decision i thought not to make because of some reason but i don't know what it was i am not sure that of trying to do some research you know the issue that you know we spent on my knee or board spent money at the high school because after a year and zone there were material that was in can do it was conducive to slipping once you ran past budget and he carries a project you know i get the point about concrete i really do play football i notice i come off the field and hit concrete slippery but we give that input to him i'm sure you make it right and i was you saying that because i don't think he was the buildings and grounds director at the time that that was discussed so he may have seen it on a list and just assume that that it's something same thing with the first bag too just thinking about allergies and when you think about school environments i know the noise level reduction and those sorts of things but you know i think of cork siemens actually is going to produce for us exactly but i do think it's relevant and i group mr bowman there should be some discussion because i would like to hear some thoughts i have some distinct thoughts on these three presentation but i think playing into what we might do as a board i mean some of the claims that some of these companies make to me are absurd our first presentation said that they are the lowest cost company and it's proven that they're not by the second presentation of potentially the third presentation so i find that as a board member that automatically puts me in a bad spot  first company when i read some of their their statements that they made which are i don't think they have a right to make those kind of statements with the easiest to work with people who are they evaluating that so i think that i would like to hear others thoughts on that because i was very put off by some that but maybe we better consider whether next monday is the perfect time to do it as we do have a shortage occasionally and policy to throw in a long building's grounds it sounds like there's more involved  we just can't do close the specific numbers or something like that because i think in we could speak in generalities but maybe that something unless somebody said everybody's agreement is that we would sign it under the way that they answered it as far as i'm concerned they should have just included in the project and said there's zero because it's other places and that's the way it should have been done regardless of what we request because nobody does it that way nobody writes about overhead said we have to let seems to me we have these ask of these plus we also have the option can we do these projects ourselves save the overhead we're going to pay them and still get the energy savings and pay off the board mission which we reverse question and i think it's a good question i'm in favor personally and i'll tell you why because it sounds a couple of messages at least the message i would be sending in voting for it to do it regardless of who is a we're being very good stewards of our energy dollars yes it's going to cost us money to get to that stewardship but i think in the big picture there is an overall savings by any one of these companies that's why there's a guarantee so i do think it's it's something we should seriously consider doing secondly i think the manpower issue is a serious real issue but with these companies brings project management which would alleviate a bigger burden than if we took it on ourselves so i think that's another benefit and then third in the very very big picture you heard what they said about the siemens control that's why i was  of them about having seen this can stroll really why do we need to do this if you already have these great siemens construct but they're right technology changes and the upgrade to some of those controls is critical it's critical in the big picture and we it ourselves with project management and guaranteed  savings and energy savings i think it's a win win the big issue for me is is more about some of the claims that are made in these proposals and then i would further question them about some of these claims because this is an open public record thing and i'm just not comfortable listening to people bashed their competitors to get a job and i just i don't like that i mean both of the second two companies specifically called hold their competitors by name especially the last one and i'm just not comfortable with that because it has you actually publicly or internally publish it while i think changes i believe this is my personal opinion we should have more meetings like that where they're voting meetings besides them once a month because i believe next monday we should maybe vote on whether we should do this at all and make it a photo that way going forward all of our questions could be asked to have them back if we need to the following week i think we should set this program tom he said yeah i think we should separate i think we should both we want to ask oh that's next monday thing and let's do it in a boating meeting so we can make a decision that's my thing and i just think we should do more special voters meetings because i'm sitting here and i'm feeling very very torn because i believe we should be making the decision whether you're going to do an  policies plus we have the the issue of the education that we have to talk about and the question is how best to accomplish this as we don't want to shortchange in it you know anger so if we start have a good especially we start talking about buildings and grounds committee meeting is only going to be on that small issue of whether or not to go forward with the nasco or not ask oh that very well might be a half hour question would we want to say that you know you keep the policy meeting on there maybe you get through if there's time you get through five meetings if not you just call it and then our journey to you know so that you could still leave it on there in case all of that goes quickly if everybody thinks you know yeah i want to go with the nasco you could start it you don't have to finish the meeting you can then adjourn it to another day if you say ok we're going to give ourselves t have used the bond issue because i don't necessarily forgive one of these companies in terms which were true we to get better rates i think than what they're telling us and i don't want a company dictating to us that we're choosing to do work for us and how we're going to finance our own that i want to have one hundred percent could be a deal breaker he already said where you go he said well trade person a duration of fifty you've got to be kidding me you're not going to dictate to me what debt i'm going to take on the percentage i'm going to take on and then just say ok you tell me where to get that bond from part of that that was en having asked that and you bring up the architect why did district agreement with the current architect have i mean we do we have a contract with an architectural firm has my background is dealing with architectural firms and project management and project construction and i'm sitting here looking at everything that we have to do and looking forward and saying what is our plan what what are we doing here and and doing masonry work for sixty thousand dollars how does that affect th you know the the cracking and and other problems that are happening on that roof with the walls and and some additional water problems there what are we working with an architectural firm who in this instance when we're looking at as goes and things like that that are for our project management service do we have a plan to bring somebody in or look at you know architectural firms that that offer that as a service that would help that we could do it in conjunction with you know  but i'm also asking is if are we are the architects that we've worked with find these objects are are we putting band aids on things or do we have an overall plan for covering each issue t understands from the three new board members and i believe the rest of the board as well that this is an issue we're asking him to be aware to look jets that are needing to be dealt with now two years three years five years we have asked mr ball to put some time into doing it i don't think that's something that's going to happen overnight this is a value evaluation process that takes a long time to fear as on whether we're going to ask or not to ask ok there's a lot of factors that are into this issue and questions but please understand i'll speak for looking at long term it's not something we can answer tonight it's not something we're going to be able to answer for you tonight but it is certainly on the docket for us to deal with to me so and just final thing is i appreciate dr frien