god bless your america i'm your host the right reverend david clark and i'm more than happy to come into your home today and to declare the blessings of god in your own life i know that god is in the blessing business and i know that if you see the first kingdom of god and his righteousness then all of these things will be added unto you and all of the blessings will fall afresh on you if you continue to seek and to bless his name it's a good thing to be in the place where god is moving by his spirit and i believe that god is moving on this particular broadcast today we're going to celebrate and we're going to honor the seventieth anniversary of the jewish rebellion at the nazi extermination camp  portland today we're going to be celebrating this particular event we're going to be discussing the ramifications the pros and cons all of the things about this particular event again and we're so happy that you have decided to tony and to be across the i way and hedges reach ministry but this ministry is designed for the sick and the shut in and this designed for those who are outside of the ark of safety my special guest today is dr fierro paul reader the dean and professor of the bear and natural s school naturals and environmental science of duquesne university welcome to the show very happy to be here evan cars well it's a good thing to discuss victoria's events i agree and this event that we're going to be discussing today has been mind blowing to those persons who never heard of the jewish rebellion that it occurred and so one ought to give me some insight on how you got involved with this particular project i'd be glad to do that my main area of specialty in my scientific research involves a lot of mapping and drawing of maps and i'm part of a multi disciplinary research team that essentially has done a lot of work in israel and a lot of work that's centered on judaism and the opportunity arose in two thousand and nine for me as part of that research group to go to eastern poland and do research at the sobibor that's extermination camp and so i worked with the group of multi disciplinary scientists who were both historians archaeologists and geophysicists as well and such we were trying to do is uncover the hidden secrets of sobibor ok sobibor was one of three extermination camps that buried it under three feet of dirt to essentially wipe it off the face of the earth right out of sight out of mind i brought with me today some footage from a film that's being created about so originally it was a film it's being produced by nebraska educational television and it was originally called the hidden holocaust of sobibor and that's what this trailer comes from it's now in production and final editing the name is changed is now called deadly deception at sobibor way and we're hoping within the next six months that it will appear on television be a public television discovery channel we're not quite sure yet but i did bring some footage along with me so we can watch that and then we'll return we can you there is a glasses here and there we think that maybe the german after they destroyed the camp maybe they put all the garbage in this b king today a forest is all that remains now a team of scientists from poland israel canada and the united states are determined to an earth the hidden holocaust at sobibor their only clues are hand drawn maps from survivors that sketch conflicting versions of camp features and an aerial photo taken translation team leader yoram haney has a personal stake in the search in one thousand nine hundred two nazis deported his two uncles from paris to poland their train was diverted to sobibor where they were now the search is underway to detect the horrific events the nazis sought to conceal three down the researchers are using subsurface imaging devices to conduct a noninvasive survey of that site which is largely covered by for you so we lay out a grid using ropes and flagging tape and then we collect data every media line that create online space to media a path we bring that data together into a map and then hopefully that maps which show us the outlines of foundation of the gas chambers themselves that in a fast track the path leading to the gas chamber connecting the gas chamber to the baba shop and of the pots of the camp it's in the ground trenches lane and that you don't get to see the object but you get to see the reflections which are caused by the energy brown thing off you must look in the plan is this great oh yeah this one was put in one hundred percent i mean you can see it very distinctly moving up from some depth like to sacrifice coming up next he acts have to have a hundred theory to meet his yeah it looks like the edge of a trench and we really don't know why these depressions are here but if we mark them out then we may be able to see a pattern and then from that pattern of being able to discern you know what was behind the pattern most building whether it's random right now there are certainly parts over there in line with each other so it's a matter of marking all the holes and ciphering needed what they are this area is perhaps the area where the burning of the bodies took place and in the literature says  that the burning took place by using i think it said railroad rails and they were elevated off the ground and the fire was put in east the rails on the ground then the bodies were stacked up on top of the wreck so these could have been places where there were nine it's based out of the university of hartford ok and that's where the project director is that's where one of the historians that worked on it as well the project director is an archaeologist and a historian and a rabbi and the main archaeologist on it is actually an archaeologist for the israel antiquities authority and he became particularly interested in sobibor because doing some research on his family actually found out that two of his uncles had been transported from france to sobibor and then murdered at sobibor so that really piqued his interest in that location and he approached the polish government with the proposal to do research at sobibor so actually he first went in two thousand and eight to do reconnaissance his name is your own hany and then in two thousand and nine our group became involved ok and what our group does is working with geophysicists they use all kinds of very sophisticated equipment they have ground penetrating radar and what that does it actually shoot f m radio waves into the ground and it's reflected off the materials beneath the surface and then it's collected again by that instrument and it can basically show you what's under the surface of the digging this technology this shooting into the ground yes hof how far does it really go it depends on the nature of the materials at sobibor we could see down probably four meters twelve feet right and a lot of the projects we work on are archaeological in nature so it's a fantastic tool because we can show the archaeologists the most likely places they're going to find artifacts or the ruins of buildings etc and we can point them in the right direction so we worked there in two thousand and nine and then europe amy every year since then has been going back to sobibor and slowly excavating the site well let me ask you this what before this technology came into existence and it's only recently in the last ten years or so then adapted to use in archaeology as well and prior to that they were using sort of the traditional archaeological methods which are you lay out a grid on the ground they use these strang out and then you will excavate what are called squares so you excavate down in just one small area could be one metre by one metre and then you excavate in that particular location and you open up these very squares and then try to piece together what you're saying so this basically say it's a lot of time and labor because we can see without ever having to excavate those squares do you see with the electricity gone down into the ground i mean how do you how do you observe it it's it's an instrument that has a computer attached to it and it will collect the data into that computer you for the elect demography really don't see real time exactly what you're looking at what we do is we go out and collect data all day and then that evening with what's called reduce the data and software will essentially take that data and then create a plot of the  mapping yes mapping the territory the location right the ground is just the first time that this type of technology has been used for a death camp like this i can't say a hundred percent for sure or not but if it's not the first time it's one of the first times in the certainly right i think if we start using this technology in the late ninety's in israel areas places in israel as part of archeological projects we've used it in two projects in spain as well and then in two thousand and nine at the project at sobibor as well it's part of the nazi plan that they called the final solution ok and it was two that's a perfect the killing process and the ability to kill as many people as quickly as possible right and at sobibor something that it mentions in the film that we saw the trailer is that practice a program of confusion and it was that they were trying to totally confuse the people that were arriving there so that they didn't know that they were at a death camp where they were told that they were at a work camp and that they would arise and they would be set a good meal but they were also wanted to protect protect hygiene so that everyone would have to shower and then as we know about the holocaust in the showers they would lead them to the showers and there are actually gas chambers and then they were killed is that right yes i and they and they call that the confusion right because they most likely created chaos if anyone knew that they were there because they were killing its own instances thousands of people in one day well   the revolt five hundred jews escaped during that i'll back up a little and the fact that when the jews arrived at the camp they were on railcars and then that's what ask does anyone have a trade because they would  let people who had trades that could be used for the next the war effort to live and they lived in the camp and there was six seven hundred people that were allowed to live total in the camp who had trades that could help them that the war effort and then everyone else unfortunately was led to their death in the gas chambers and again it was a program of confusion that they created along for some were allowed to live and the scape that took place  allowing him to live is no terry background in tactics and he organized the revolt essentially and on that day in october five hundred jews escaped from the camp they killed i believe it was eight nazis  guards most were rounded up and killed after the escape but actually fifty did live all the way through the war and so all the end of the war fifty of the five hundred bucks and the five hundred scaped right price ok that's a mistake they were trying to come up yes they wanted to save face first of all but then also they didn't want the word to get out and somehow filtered to some of the other camps that perhaps well it is possible to overthrow them that he's escaped from the camp so that's when they essentially dismantled the camp they brought jews in to dismantle the camp right they took the camp apart we think from the archaeological studies that had been there they hauled most of the materials away and the jews that they brought in then they killed them as well ok so it wasn't it was more than just a crime against humanity but it was their particular error making this mistake that affected their national pride yeah that's a way of framing it ok ok that's really interesting that's really interesting now this camp wasn't also called like the killing machine are you familiar with the killing haney went back like i said year after year to do archaeological research today and he dug in that area and it turned out it wasn't the gas chambers that was most likely a barracks through his archaeological excavations he was able to eventually find the location of the gas chamber and actually the way it worked at sobibor is the jews would get off the train they would be taken into an area and the men and the women would be separated and the children would go with the women all their belongings were taken and then in an area called camp two that's where all the belongings were collected and then they were stripped and then walk along a path that's called the road to heaven and that led to the gas chambers and then they was standing to you in two thousand and nine we found mostly kind of common household types of artifacts and knives and forks and parts of eyeglasses curling irons and such to show that certainly people had been living there ok and they found a child's tag they didn't know it was child when they found it a small metal tag that had a name on it and then they went to the archives and looked and eventually found out that she was with a seven year old dutch girl who had been murdered at so r as well and they actually contacted the family and said what we found this tag i believe in english we found you this is just tag it sobibor and contacted the family and they basically got the back story about their family in the holocaust and how they were all taken  from holland to sobibor and then murdered and then other artifacts similar to that not with names on it but various tags that would be put on the jews to show that they were jewish right well let me ask you this how long were you there i was there for a short two weeks two weeks when this two weeks time when did your mission are in when when did you when did the passion come out of the i i have passion i do research at various places around the world in the middle east and like that spain and poland with this research group i do research in central america as well southeast asia in the philippines and i'm passionate for all that research but this is special because of the fact of what happened there and the fact that two hundred fifty thousand people were murdered at that location and i think you owe it to humanity and you owe it to the families to try and cover as much information as you can about the horrible events that went on there and so before well appreciate you promote unity not the sentiment that business and not the visions but hope and we pray that god will touch you hard that you will forgive your neighbors that you would give the person who have passed away those person who have affected you that you practice forgiveness and all of your way and we pray that god will give you the see the light of jesus ears to hear the voice of jesus tang's to confess that jesus is lord and that is my prayer for you today that you come into a relationship with the lord jesus and he would give you the grace