prevention of equine cruelty act of two thousand and eight according to many sources animal cruelty is a widespread problem in the united states however the federal government does not collect specific data on animal cruelty crimes askand out of that we do collect  usually mixed in with other crimes categories yielding little in useful information which are sixty five ninety eight will establish a comprehensive and consistent collection of data on animal cruelty crimes providing heighten awareness of the problem of animal cruelty and assisting in determining whether legislation is necessary h r sixty five ninety seven directs the attorney general to make appropriate changes in addicts in existing crime databases so that data on animal cruelty crimes will be collected made available to the public and congress will have the necessary data for making legislative decisions over this over this matter h r sixty five ninety eight the prevention of equine cruelty act of two thousand and eight addresses the continuing problem of cruelty to horses through slaughter for human consumption despite the fact that in two thousand and seven the last three house horse slaughter houses in the united states were closed to federal court rulings the practice of horse lot of for human consumption has not gone away after the closures of the u s or slaughterhouses so called killer buyers simply increase horse exports to mexico and canada and slaughter houses they continue their trade almost unimpeded by the closures and their trade is lucrative in some parts of the world horsemeat is considered a delicacy creating a high demand in fact as of september two thousand and seven the number of horses shipped to mexico slaughterhouses has jumped three hundred sixty nine percent from the number shipped in two thousand and the number of horses exported to canada for slaughter increased by forty six percent according to one study for new horse slaughter houses opened in canada between two thousand and seven and early two thousand and eight opponents of these bills argue that that horse slaughter for human consumption is a form of humane euthanasia but overwhelming red narry sources suggest otherwise they find that most humane euthanasia is a relatively painless chemical and junk injection which cost about two hundred twenty five dollars more over slaughter process is very difficult to call humane the slaughter process generally starts with the purchase of horses at a horse auction by the so called killer buyers or has been travel long distances sometimes more than twenty four hours to the slaughterhouse with no water or food or rest procedures for killing the horses at slaughterhouses vary but by all accounts each is very disturbing h r sixty five ninety eight response to this problem  criminalizes the possession shipment transport purchased sale delivery or receipt of any horse with the intent that it be slaughtered slaughtered for human consumption there also criminalizes a shipment of horse carcasses or flesh for the purpose of human consumption that is my pleasure now to recognize the same ranking member of the subcommittee the gentleman from texas judge louie gohmert thank you chairman scott today's hearing will focus on h r six sixty five ninety eight as one of the bills this one would criminalize the sale possession transport of horses if a person knows the horse would be slaughtered for your human consumption but also focus on the second bill sixty five ninety seven which seeks to require the department of justice to collect data on animal cruelty crimes it seems like there is a divergence of opinion on some of these i know some of us were very concerned in the last congress when when i was here for the first time some of the inhumane way in which horses were being put down in the slaughterhouse is very disturbing but then we did have information the my friend chairman scott had mentioned veterinary sources and i know we have a witness that will address that but you know then we got a letter from the american veterinary medical association last congress saying they were opposed to the build a close a slaughterhouse is actively pursuing defeat and then gave some factual information from their standpoint just this week got a letter from the american quarter horse horse association says it was addressed to chairman scott intimated omar smith and also from the animal welfare council dated july thirtieth  d they were the animal welfare council says they want to express their serious concern regarding h r sixty five ninety eight and then they raised some of the concerns  regarding the bill that they have in the american quarter horse association expressed their word grad about being well to get here for the hearing that they were not aware of until this weekend so i would ask that those two letters from animal welfare council and also the american quarter horse sociate be entered as part of the record w unanimous consent without objection but regarding the first bill reading some of the information from those sources i've been concerned about the reports that this could add to the already growing  number cruelty to abandon of horses and i know as ross addresses this issue in her testimony but you know anecdotally i've been hearing those reports we're having more horses released in east texas people tell me well they are folks i paid three thousand five hundred dollars for a horse and they can't afford to have a vet put him down and they can't afford to keep him going on horses one of the most important most  expensive animals to keep as a head if that's what you're going to do so that's caused some concern but under current law transporting horses for slaughter to foreign countries such as mexico or canada is  regulated by the u s department of agriculture the sponsor of the legislation seek to expand congress's jurisdiction in effect extraterritorial a by adding this crime to our federal code which others have raised causes issues of treaty violations professor john baker of louisiana state university law school recently published a report on this trend how revisiting the explosive growth of federal crimes his paper professor bragger writes that over the past twenty five years congress has on average created over five hundred new crimes per decade his research case least forty four hundred fifty federal requirement of intent or guilty mind lead one of the concerns is that sixty five ninety eight would criminalize the possession transporter sale of a horse that is intended to be slaughtered that it  allowed people to be pursued that did not intend to commit a wrongful act we've heard many stories of rising rates of horses being abandoned because the on owners could not afford to keep them and so will be interested in hearing and gathering more information on that it does make it difficult like in my days as a judge when you've got two sides that paint completely different pictures of getting down to what really is the true situation we previously hard heart rending information about how some horse a lot of facilities most or all had been in humanely killing horses and seen photographs found and obviously that's that's a concern to anybody with a heart or eyes to see but my main concern with sixty five ninety seven the second bil subcommittee today is that it may not likely get us the information that is being sought most of us would really like to have that kind of data to know just how significant a problem this is the bill requires department of justice change existing crime databases so that data on all crimes of human or animal cruelty will be collected the department's crime database is a national repository for fugitive warrant criminal charges and trial dispositions currently the department merely maintains a database that state and local law enforcement officials upload information into the department could create a category for animal cruelty cases and i would expect would do that but state and local law enforcement officials have no obligation to provide statistics for category of cases a problem is that many animal cruelty charges are misdemeanors and law enforcement officials only provide information on felonies and also many animal cruelty cases are apparently investigated by civil animal welfare agencies rather than criminal law enforcement officials  agencies do not report statistics about the civil penalties they have imposed to the department though it would be helpful information many of these civil agencies also are barely able to make their obligation as it is and would not welcome additional unfunded mandates i do welcome the witnesses and look forward to hearing their testimony on these issues that remain so very difficult that you're back to balance my time america's dirty secret and i haven't talked with him about why he's used this phrase maybe we'll find out here today and  consumption sharing her bachelor of science degree from middlesex university in london i think the chairman of the committee requested to introduce the next witness former representative this to send home well i wanted to introduce charlie stenholm because i'm one of the few people still around that was here when he was here and i'm delighted to see him again senior policy advis and olson law firm he represented texas for many years was senior member of agriculture committee he was in the congress for twenty six years and this is the immediate past president of the american association of equine wait a minute no he wasn't the past pre economic policy very well of course the years he enjoyed the great support of our leaders and i'm happy to see him again thank you thank you and you're through the work of charlie stenholm and others so thank you representative sent home for being with us today it would be my great privilege and honor to introduce the next witness from the commonwealth of virginia however the gentleman from michigan has asked to introduce him to yield to the gentleman from michigan thank you my good friend from the commonwealth of virginia i did thing i can claim he created because of the disparity in the way farmers of color have been treated in terms of being able to enjoy some of the federal legislation to support those in the agriculture industry he formed the national black farmers association he himself is a fourth thank you and he's a friend of many people and very much honored in virginia and throughout the nation for his work with the national black farmers association so welcome our next witnesses douglas corey of adams oregon he practices equine medicine at associated veterinary clinic person makes animal practice is the immediate past president of the american association of equine practitioners and a set of many leadership positions within the organization including chair of the kwan welfare committee is a graduate of whitman college and washington and earned his veterinary degree from colorado state university dr nicholas dodman is the section head and program director of the animal behavior department of clinical sciences at t coming school of veterinary medicine and massachusetts he specializes in animal behavior and has written for bestselling books to textbooks more than one hundred articles he graduated from glasgow university better read in every school in scotland is a member of the american veterinary medical association the royal college of veterinary surgeons american college of veterinary behaviorists and the american college of veterinary allergist is a founding member of the vets for equine welfare and a member of the leadership council of the humane society medical association wayne for sally is president of the humane society of the united states a nation's oldest and she's an admissions the largest animal protection organization has worked extensively in congress and say legislature to prohibit the slaughter of horse for human consumption is written countless articles on animal protection bachelor's degree from yale with a dual major history and  device at the table which will start off green go to yellow when one minute is left and finally read when the minutes are up and we'll get begin with m good morning i'm liz ross and federal policy advisor for the animal welfare institute here in washington i just want to thank you chairman scott chairman conyers and judge go mart for holding this hearing today and the staff i know put so much work into bringing us together i truly appreciate the opportunity to testify in favor of the conyers burton prevention of equal to the act and chairman conyers i can't thank you enough for sponsoring the bill before i started my testimony i'd like to also go on record that i and my organization support as well  and horse slaughter legislative process i'm a founding member of the home for horses coalition i am an organization a partnered with the national black farmers association to place at risk horses in good homes and i also serve on the board of directors for the global federation of animal i first became aware of for slaughter back in two thousand when i went to the new holland sales stable in pennsylvania this is a weekly sale where hundreds of horses are sold many of them going to slaughter and the animal cruelty and terror that i witnessed that day and everything that i learned about the the slaughter trade thereafter was so disturbing to me that upon returning to washington i sat down with my colleagues including chris hyde of the animal welfare institute and start piecing together a legislative fix to this problem chris and i had the honor of working  representative kamimura ella who introduced the first incarnation of the american horse slaughter prevention act the predecessor to the bill before you today her bill was introduced one hundred seventh congress it was reduced in subsequent congress of creating getting great congressional and public support in fact in the hundred nine to pass the house by a landslide the two sixty three to one forty six that failed to do so in the senate sponsors reintroduce the start of a hundred tenth currently has two hundred sixty co sponsors in the house and thirty nine in the senate but again it stalled in committee attempts to remedy the situation through the appropriations process have also hit a brick wall as you noted before horses are not currently being slaughtered the united states under state law the plants in texas and illinois were shut down but our horses are still being slaughtered and butchered for human consumption overseas by high end diners simply being transported further to canada and mexico where as you can imagine the process is even more brutal than it is or was here in the united states that combined with the patchwork of state laws that actually could have it so that plants could reopen in states with less or lots of those of california illinois and texas really cry out for a strong federal statute to shut down this trade you may hear that horse slaughter is a necessary evil without which horses will suffer abuse and neglect the slaughter industry exists to turn a profit and exists because of the money to be made actually in genders abuse and neglect regarding what to do with all of a one horse issue we shut this trade down again you noted at the start mr chairman that three hundred fifty thousand horses were slaughtered in one thousand nine hundred that dropped to just over one hundred thousand last year there's been no quarter laning flood of unwanted horses running our fields and streets is a again a market driven industry if slaughter were no longer an option old sick horses could be euthanized humanely euthanized by a vet and their bodies rendered or buried which is what this country does with hundreds of thousands of horses every year but most horses going to slaughter are good healthy sound horses in fact the u s d a cites that ninety to ninety two percent of horses going to slaughter and good condition so they don't need to be lethally disposed of some have tried to blur the line between slaughter and humane euthanasia they there's nothing similar between the two  peaceful process slaughter is a brutal process and if there is any doubt in your mind about this i've submitted pictures are quite graphic along with my testimony that show just how brutal the straight is mr chairman the ultimate goal for a genuine equine advocates has always been the passage of a federal bill and where it not for the people who are opposing this bill while at the same time to cry and the export of horses to mexico and canada we wouldn't be before you today asking for your help some have actually question whether it makes sense to take the judiciary route and criminalize horse lot of title eighteen not only of the legislative presidents for doing so but for slaughter in every respect is a form of animal cruelty and ought to be recognized and treated as such every five minutes an american horse is slaughtered we don't raise them for human consumption we don't eat them yet our horses continue to be brutally slaughtered these are our pets our work horses our race horses and their suffering and imagine the terror and pain so that someone can make a buck nation that believes in majority rule we're all entitled to our opinions but we're not all entitled to our facts and i respectfully differ with those who are here at this table who are greatly respect their opinions i differ with we can all agree though on one thing ninety nine point nine percent all animals should be treated humanely from birth until death there is no argument on that one for me or anyone else that  represent but the definition of humane treatment is debatable i have been to a horse processing plant i have witnessed it it's not pleasant i've been to beef pork poultry  not pleasant but it's what happens in our society in the animal industry now we warned congress those of us who have a different opinion last year if you pass this legislation and you deny the processing of horses there will be unintended consequences and there are unintended consequences all over the country today as ascertained by our national association of counties national state department of agriculture sheriff's department there is no question that there are unintended consequence unwanted horses are having a difficult place to go it is true that exports to mexico have increased dramatically it is true that exports to canada  have increased dramatically if you pass this legislation there reddick lead that will stop there radically but then i do represent the live stock markets of america some eight hundred individuals businesses basically that have in the past sold horses if this legislation passes they will no longer be able to sell horses because they cannot assume the responsibility of a horse that comes to their sale of which there is no buyer that's the problem with this legislation that's the problem with those who want to ban the processing of horses is there are unwanted horses that the processing industry has provided a floor price for that will be gone and this is what the majority at this table would like to see but dr corey and i have a different opinion now you hear a lot about unfunded mandate mr chairman members of this committee if this legislation were to pass and if it is absolutely totally banned that no horse maybe process for human consumption the state county local governments and state governments are going to have to assume a tremendous amount of additional responsibility because there are no funds being provided there are some excellent har sanctuary organizations we have one in texas judge gomery you're aware of black beauty therefore they do a great job and there are others that do a great job but there is not enough money and there is not enough effort to take care of all of the unwanted horses and i cannot understand  personally if an individual horse owner does not wish their horse to be processed for human consumption i'm for you don't show your horse do it as suggested that you should all do it but why would this committee superimpose your will on a horse owner that does not object to their horse being consumed for human consumption why would you want to superimpose your oil on an individual horse owner that does not object that would rather have their horse consumed in countries that do we don't why would you want to superimpose your views on them of saying what they can and can't do with their heart that's the problem that's always been a problem to me we're a nation of laws we're a nation of private property rights and why we would super impose our view on a minority or a majority of those who do not object if you would prefer to have your horse euthanized and sent to a garbage dump i'm for you but why would you oppose a horse owner that does not object to their horse being consumed by someone that does believe that that is ok according to their customs my final chairman be careful on unfunded mandate there's an excellent op ed in the washington post this morning from the governor of new york talking about unfunded mandates the costs that are occurring this will be one of the biggest unfunded mandates on many small towns and communities that could possibly be passed and interestingly we're importing back in the united states to feed our zoo animals because as you all know who animals prefer horse meat and when it comes into the united states it is fit for human consumption because contrary to popular opinion any horses that are processed in canada or we don't eat horses we're back on from we use sources as a way a living for work when i was a little kid my first job in the morning was to get up and brush my grandfather's mews and feed him and i used to i asked him one time how so we're going to why do i have to want to have the russian and i got a weapon for about an hour because that was the way that he made a living for his fifteen children and that was the way that he made a living to raise his grandchildren and so on and so forth so i beg to differ with mr stenholm that i have a lot of respect for him i'm known slaughtering horses for full consumption nobody on my board of directors knew that we were slaughtering horses for food consumption and i think that comes a point when you have to draw a line in the same and i'm a farmer nobody's trying to take away their rights to raise cattle or to raise raise chickens that's not what this hearing is about and issue about greed from the people of the middle men who want to make money i don't know of one farm in america mrs donal may disagree here that raises holds let me raises horses for slaughter i don't know any members in maui organization that raise horses for the slaughter so i disagree with that assumption that some farmers may allude to deaden when we sell horses o when i reached out to the animal welfare answer to and we wanted to top our membership and to placing some of these horses and membership around the country and we think that is a perfect fit most farmers want horses most mommas have horses on and on their farms and we think it's a perfect fit to help place some of these horses on on the farms around the country so with that said all of the issue about all of these on wanted horses yes we have times the economic hard times and farmers are having difficulties things of that nature heat and hay know that these things play a factor but most of us hold onto our livestock and we treat our livestock very well as you heard to my upbringing i was one of the things that we had to do make sure that we kept up our livestock and take care of it so a lot of the things that i've heard today  i kind of disagree with we want to and horse slaughter on and here again where i come from i don't know about you but we don't eat horses we made some beef and some other things but we don't eat horses so thank you chairman scott and distinguished members of the subcommittee thank you for the opportunity to appear before you today i am dr douglas corey i have practiced equine medicine for over thirty years and i am here today as immediate past president of the american association practitioners and as past chairman of the equine welfare committee p s a professional association representing nearly ten thousand equine veterinarians and veterinary students worldwide our mission is to protect the health and welfare of the horse i want to horses in the united states are facing a crisis from new york to california horses that are considered at risk in the quine population are being severely impacted by a struggling economy high grain high hay prices high fuel prices and the closer last year of the three u s slaughter plants the result increased equine cruelty in the form of abuse neglect and abandonment you have to look no further than the national magazines your own local newspapers to see evidence of the negative impact on the unwanted horse population from time magazine may two thousand and eight an epidemic of abandoned horses from u today march two thousand and eight us shelters saddled with unwanted horses in the washington post january two thousand and eight loudoun county virginia gets forty eight cruelly treated horses and from my home state of oregon the bend bulletin headline just last week read oregon horse owners face tough decisions headlines aside those of us who are in the field every day practically practicing equine veterinary medicine know the harsh realities confronting horses that are on wanted my colleagues are increasingly alarmed by the growing number of clients who can no longer afford care for their animals fortunately some of these horses are sold to new owners or able to be placed in a rescue  retirement facility however more these horses are left on sold at auctions even with rock bottom prices others endure a worse fate of being neglected by their owners or abandoned in the state of colorado alone equine cruelty investigations have been up forty percent in two thousand and seven while it is difficult to get an accurate count of the total number of unwanted horses in the united states we know from the number of horses that are currently being sent to processing plants in north america that that number is in the tens of thousands in two thousand and six last year that the us processing plants were open for the entire fiscal year s department of agriculture that over one hundred in two thousand horses were processed in this country alone the vast majority of those horses were on wanted and well processing plants alone are currently closed in the u s the only option for many of today's horses remains processing at a facility outside of this country the a p advocates humane care of all horses and believes equine industry and horse owners have a responsibility to provide humane care throughout the life of a horse because a large population of the unwanted horses in the us the a p believes that processing of unwanted horses is currently unnecessary end of life option and provides a humane turn it eve to a lying horse can you in a life of discomfort and pain or endure the an act or care or abandonment our chief reason for opposing this legislation is not because our association believes that sending a horse to a processing plant is the best option for reducing population our opposition exist because legislation does not address the long term care and funding that will be necessary to help the tens of thousand horses that would be affected by a ban assuming a bare minimum cost of five dollars per day for horses basic needs which is not include veterinarian for your expenses the funding needed per horse per year is approximately eight hundred dollars multiply this by example for the number of horses have been sent to the mexican processing facilities and thus far in two thousand and eight you have thirty thousand horses with a cost here per year of fifty five million dollars this does not include a large number of horses going to canada i ask can the federal government help fund the care of these horses those those who support a ban on horse processing often state that there are currently a number of equine rescue and recent retirement facilities to care for all horses that need homes i strongly dispute this well there are a number of facilities in the united states providing homes for old an unwanted horses the capacity of these individuals is usually limited to thirty horses or last in closing this legislation is premature horse processing  symptomatic of a much larger issue and that is how to provide humane care for tens of thousands of unwanted horses in the united states we believe the wine industry must look work together to find a solution to this complex issue we recognize that this truly is a perfect storm of factors impacting this issue right now one of the a p s priorities is to help these horses by educating owners and encouraging sponsible horse ownership that is why the unwanted horse coalition was formed in two thousand and five currently under the american horse council last month the membership on this issue seventy five percent of our members believe that horse processing should remain at this time and end of life decision we the horse veterinarians in this country know that passage of this bill will put the population at an even greater ed specialist i'm a position to judge consciousness and unconsciousness i'm also currently and i will behaviorist which i got into through studies on equine research i want to thank they sponsor the legislative would support the continuing of slaughter would have you believe that there are wanted horses in the to the tune of one hundred thousand per year nobody knows the exact number they probably are a small number if you take that number that we know we can get down to because it's factually true that's forty two thousand and you take off those horses that are stolen and we know that happens because of the horse they're figures in california it's a cover the number of horses that a con from people from tax shops and advertisements the ones that arrive in florida has a little pink bridles on because they belong  girl few days before who never would have agreed to this the ones that are bought out from underwriting school people by being over bed by killer by the horses that have been taken from the wild if you pay that forty two thousand number down you come down with a much smaller number than the one that all the untag and put all their plans by and frighten people frighten their memberships into talking about increasing the blacks on welfare what i can tell you is that the a v m a is saying we've got these two terrible a predatory and brutal industry that exists solely to generate about a billion dollars between all hands and they're fighting like crazy to keep it alive and they're sucking healthy horses out of the population just to supply the demand for me to foreign countries and most of the money from this does not go to united states it goes abroad the whole process the alternative people say well let's not let them starve in a field let's let's kill them mainly by  it's not humane it's not euthanasia euthanasia means good death this is not a good death this is the worst death you could possibly imagine these plants are like auschwitz for horses from the time they conduct their people from the time they get on to that trail and they ride a thousand miles  extremes of whether to depart with people who say why bother watering them they're going to die anyway is the kind of typical attitude of a driver they break rules i've been involved in the canadian situation they take double decker trailers which we're not allowed to use to slaughter plants they t supposed to have proper arrangements even the a v m a says that the animal's head should be properly secured these animals are going back and forth like a shuttlecock and the man's trying to reach with a gun and a stick and you're trying to shoot something like a fish in a barrel the size of a grapefruit in a horse's head which is this size and you've got to hit that when it's a moving target according to one sticker in the plant in canada fifty percent of the horses that are subsequently shackled are actually conscious i've seen horses with their mouths going their feet running i estimated thirty percent he said more like fifty percent they then have their throat cut which takes a while for them to bleed out this is like the old english equivalent of one drawn and quartered and then the next machine cuts their legs off above their wrists i would be surprised i don't have direct evidence but if some of those horses have their legs cut off on still alive i mean they're wriggling on the hook like salmon if you look at this you don't need to be a rocket scientist you don't need to be of any behaviors you don't need to be an anesthesiologist this is not humane and any group or organization that supports it really  has to reexamine what they're all about and these polls you hear about the people listening to these the veterinarians the a v m a are being fed wrong information and they come to the wrong conclusion not neither extreme is  forty two thousand no change in the criminal acts of abuse which go on anyway in the background of the same consistent right thank you for your time thank you thank you chairman for holding this hearing and for all of your work on animal welfare issues and also to you chairman conyers for your leadership throughout your career on animal welfare you know it was just a short number of years ago when animal cruelty issues were not taken seriously and this congress has already enacted animal fighting legislation that several of you on this committee have led because you believe that it's wrong and inhumane to stage fights for animals just for simple amusement and both bills here today address fundamental issues of animal cruelty and the humane society the united states wholeheartedly supports both because we don't believe that animals are just things or commodities these animals have the same spark of life that we have they want to live just as much as we want to live and it's precisely because we are smart and intelligent as a species that we should be decent and responsible in our dealings with other creatures and this is not decency this is rationalizations that we're here from folks who are profiting from the exploitation of these horses i'll say just a few more words about horses later but i do want to say a quick word about the animal cruelty statistics act h r sixty five ninety seven you know we now treat as a society animal cruelty seriously because we know it's a vice it's a moral wrong in and of itself but we also know that animal cruelty and the violence associated with it cannot be court compartmentalize that people who are brutal and harmful and abusive to animals often have those same ill sentiments directed toward people we see that in seventy five percent of cases where there's domestic violence there's also animal cruelty and vice versa one day it's the animal another th a child another day it's a spouse we need proper reporting of animal cruelty cases because we see that serial killers start with animals and they move on to people and we see all sorts of other violence associated with animals that then moves on to people so we commend you for introducing chairman conyers the animal cruelty statistics act and we don't want this data out of curiosity we want to because it will help prevent crime and because it will stop violence in our communities and in our nation regarding the the prevention of equine cruelty act you know the the the other proponents of this legislation have it exactly right horses are not raised for food these animals are opportunistically collected up by individuals who want to make a profit and any industry that's involved in exploiting animals is is i've seen it through the years they have these elaborate rationalizations to justify their conduct they don't want to say they're cruel of course you can't say that so you have to concoct some defense that somehow by slaughtering these animals we're doing them a favor that we're preventing terrible cruelty because people in that black them and harm them well should policy in this nation be driven by people who starve animals or exhibit rule two to them why are we propping up as the primary argument of the opponents of this legislation the fact that some people starve animals and therefore we should stop cruelty those people should be prosecuted under state anti cruelty statutes that's what those statutes allow for and if they're stenholm or the other opponents of this legislation have evidence of people within their community who are starving or neglecting or banning horses please give it to us because we will work with law enforcement authorities to stop this cruelty you know i i really think that horses in our society of move more in the category of dogs and cats you know we don't take on want to dogs and cats and ship them to slaughter houses so they can be exploited for human consumption and you know now that the us based slaughterhouses of clothes we're talking about a type of cruelty that is more extreme than ever we're talking about transport distances into central mexico that may be fifteen hundred miles horses crammed on the cattle trucks where they cannot even stand underfed underwater animals on long distance transport and then when they get to mexico no standards for humanely killing the animals we documented are humane society vets years have been at the plants in mexico and we have it on tape and we've submitted to the committee the horses going into the kill box and being stabbed with a short knife or a door shut to the kill bugs trapping her inside a worker jabour in the back with a small knife seven eight nine times eyes while she lowered her head and raised it as the blade punctured her body around the weather's again and again at the tenth jab she fell to the floor of the again slaughterhouse bloodied and paralyzed but not yet dead she would lay there for a good two minutes before being hoisted from a chain rear leg so her throat  slit and she could be bled to death you know we can do better than this as a society if we are a humane species we must be humane to the less powerful among us these creatures cannot speak for themselves we have laws in the society that say that cruelty to animals is wrong if those laws mean anything they should be applied to the circumstances where being barbaric to these creatures thank you very much and i'd like to ask  that a tabulation of reports from horse rescuers where they've been competing against killer buyers to save these horses be entered into the record as well as a letter from the s p c a thank you very much thank you and i think all of our witnesses  questions and i'll recognize myself for five minutes to begin with dr boyd dr boyd you have a ph d in economics yes can you talk very briefly about the impact of a prohibition on the farming business on a farmers business yes i can do one thing one of the things that i was listening to mrs stand how many spoke about property property right  i bought these horses and they belong to me and i can kill the most lot of whatever it is that i may want to do with the with the horses and  wasn't that long ago that they viewed african americans in the same way slave or as proper and i can do what i want to do when i want to do it and i think it goes back to the line in the sand that i spoke about mr chairman about a mayor right and wrong with this issue as far as equates to tahar slaughter there's no horses running down the street that people don't a they really didn't know the real numbers of what they say may be quote unquote on wanted horses so to answer your question they don't know what the numbers are but i can tell you that  for the question what we've seen traditionally is that while localities may certainly be involved in animal cruelty cases there are the seizure of horses we have a network of rescues across the country that work in partnership with the authorities and most usually they're actually taking those horses into providing for them from their own private funds and from the money of individual donors so again i do not believe that there will be a significant economic impact or any economic impact on a local municipalities what i would like to say is that with slaughter there had been a very negative economic impact on jurisdictions that were unwilling host to the thought of lance bacon the former mayor of kaufman texas which was home to dallas crown fought for years with her city council trying to get the slaughterhouse out of there because it was such a negative economic drain an environmental hazard for that community in terms of the money that they had to put into  revamping their sewer system to deal with the blood and other by products of the slaughter industry there were people in that town who couldn't open up their windows or run their air conditioners because the stench was so horrific there was blood in the city and so if anything there's a very negative environmental impact to the trade thank you gentlemen if you have horses slaughtered for human consumption how do we know that no inappropriate drugs like steroids and whatnot were horses were carrying drugs steroids or whatever when we had the three processing plants in the united states are operating all of the meat other than that which went to t animals went to europe for human consumption all of the hills restrictions that apply to the europeans on what is in or out of the meat applied to the inspection of those carcasses i have to assume that the veterinarians the food and drug all of the people that were concerned about that very question were doing their jobs there are there any plans still in operation in the united states  then if they're being used for human consumption they would not be slaughtered in the united states to be slaughtered somewhere else yes how do we know that the horses or from a health perspective appropriate slaughter for human consumption those plants that are operating in canada and in mexico are abiding by the same rules for human consumption that europe imposed upon us and japan opposed upon us as we were processing horses and shipping  them to them we cannot guarantee one hundred percent no matter how many laws were passed i would guesstimate that there's probably a quarter of a million stops in washington d c a few of them are being run as we speak of the opinion that i have on horse processing that goes over the top as far as i'm concerned and i know you will say you didn't mean it that way but when you get into making those innuendos that's what makes this such an emotional issue and i want to repeat no owner that does not wish to be processed for human consumption should ever have their horse but the unintended effects of where we are now by having no processing plants available in the united states we have cost the horse industry in excess of one billion dollars in the economic activity now dr boyd i appreciate what you're saying but i don't believe all of your members who own horses would prefer to have their horse euthanized at a cost of two hundred two thousand dollars depending on where you are versus receiving a value for that horse will very briefly mr salim you know there are two bills at issue here and the cruelty statistics bill i made the link between animal cruelty and human violence it's well documented in the sociological literature and i was really confining my comments there the sort of cruelty that we see in the horse slaughter industry is institutionalized cruelty it's done by the slaughter plants and i think that there is a distinction there but i just want to just say very very briefly that this issue that that carson stenholm mentions about imposing views is a very fundamental question as we deliberate our responsibilities to animals he says well if you don't want to slaughter your horse then you don't have to but let us do it well to me that's the same as saying well if you don't want to put your dog in a dog fight don't do it but if i open my dog a dog fight then that's acceptable the reason that we have laws is we have standards that are based on social norms and the norm here is that we don't think cruelties acceptable just because you have the power to do it doesn't mean you should do it thank you dr board i want to respond to mr stone them i disagree that they won't be able to sell these horses that someone had been stations around the country does not accurate we've been had had horses in this country since probably before we were here and horses were here  n nobody was eating horses that i'm aware of and to the point of mr stenholm i don't know of a black farmer that raises horses for food consumption we just we just twenty nine thousand horses have been exported to mexico this year and that is obviously a large number of horses to place a rescue facilities that are already at capacity where will these horses go well with all due respect to her testimony there are those that believe that there will be an immediate home for them and i hope they're right you know if this happens i hope they're right but you only have to look at the plight of the wild horse and burro program right now we have forty thousand that are in various sanctuaries around the country it is becoming a budget problem for the congress that you're going to have to deal with and that's on what we  know i agree with the others who have said we don't know the numbers on this exactly but we do know what's happening in illinois i refer to my testimony which mr chairman i failed to ask to be part of the record and summarize that entire we do know what's happening testimony the written statements in their entirety will be made part of the record we do know what is happening in illinois we do know what is happening in colorado and we do know that there are unwanted horse problems all over the united states but that twenty nine thousand that's going to mexico is what will effectively stop if legislation should pass which is the intent of it but i don't see how he will enforce it because how him how do you determine once you show your existing sanctuary sufficient to handle the enormous number of abandon the horses and how much rage do they need to be humanely treated i'd like to start by responding to that question by saying that the number of horses going to slaughter is reflective of market demand and the capacity of the slaughterhouses the process of animal does not reflective of the number of i don't want to horses i actually have a report here that we were able to research these instances of so called one of horses running at large and instance after instance we've got authorities refuting these claims that i've just read a utah we've got the department natural resources saying we do not have any reports of horses being abandoned on a wildlife management area so again and again and again every time we check these facts about these stories we're finding that this simply is not true with regard to the infrastructure of of sanctuaries the number of centuries has actually risen in this country and we've got approximately four hundred fifteen now there is a growing effort to professionalize that community again i sit on the board of directors of the global federation of animal sanctuary for providing oversight and professional systems to these rescues rescues ought to be operating at capacity by their very definition and that's what they do they're bringing horses in there rehabbing them r six five nine eight prevent mexican ark or canadian horse processing the sellotape bars from simply circumventing the law by labeling horse breeding stock or for other non slaughter purposes right it's a good question i think you get into drinking water when we try to regulate what happens in mexico and some of these other  countries we really don't have jurisdiction to to address that what we should be looking that congressman is  actually with the bill how can we allow horse slaughter here in the united states when there's really not any need for lives addressed the issues with the  have all of the answers that's that's number one but number two we should be looking at other organizations and reaching out to other constituencies right here in the united states for instance the farm bureau  the farm bureau has a far greater constituency than the national black farmers association has anybody reached out to them to see what they can do to partner and take some of these losses you know in the future as things are so i think it's things for me is i've got to persuade my distinguished judicial friend from texas about the merits of my legislation he scrutinizes this very with great care and we work together and several pieces of legislation the court security some other matters brought us together so what i want to do with my time is just ask a few  might be able to raise the kinds of considerations that would tend to bring judge gohmert in a closely together as we explore this subject what would you say about that you know i really do think chairman conyers that that this is a matter of personal responsibility that you know a lot of the members of this congress on both sides of the aisle say that legislation is no substitute for responsibility and in the care of animals i think that is especially the case really what we're talking about here is there was no defense of the commerce of course a lot of people say it's not vital the economy it's not vital to the livelihood of the individual they basically said we don't have slaughter you're going to have neglect or abandonment and i think really the answer is for all of us to impress upon people that we're asking decent people to be responsible in their care of horses and if they cannot care for the animal because they don't have the money because of high hay prices they have a duty a solemn duty to euthanize and it doesn't matter whether it's what are you going to do with the dead bodies or you know two thousand dollars to euthanize a horse or the cost of gasoline or any and every single argument every single wrong or argument that possibly could be used to defeat this motion is being conjured up and most of it there is little support for you know i myself for example on the matter of disposal of the remains wrote a letter to the a v m a journal which they initially rejected because they said i hadn't referenced it so i referenced it and i sent it back into the journal with the references and then they said actually they would prefer not to publish it because they want so sure about my references which were about from agriculture bureaus and and then they put their own thing up on their website and secu in a which is full of unsubstantiated undocumented mistruths so there are people who would have you believe things and they're twisting the facts then i would think everything should be proven if they say there's an increase in  abuse and neglect they should prove it because right now what's going on is abuse and neglect so that's guaranteed the other side of the equation we don't even know what it is but we suspect it's much better than they think you make a comment very briefly briefly yeah i mean we've got the only two studies that i'm aware of one in colorado just recently has indicated and documented forty percent increase in abuse and neglect and a responsibly and that is part of the animal on a horse coalition's goal to own responsibly so that is happening and also as far as the the miss ross comments about rescues and sanctuaries there is no data on the exact number of those however a p the members are out there in the field every day working and we see this we get our reports from our members that we do see an increased number of horses that are abandoned and neglected and abused there just scott there are a number of difficult issues and i agree with the witnesses who said they don't know anybody that's ever raised horses for consumption i mean i've grown up around horses i live in i don't know being bites ever raised for consumption either but only issue of horses being euthanized you know i've tried to get to the bottom of what exactly is involved what would be the best way to euthanize orse what would be acceptable in the eyes of most people with caring hearts and common sense i've had people who said you know we certainly don't need the horse slaughter plants because you know you can do like my daddy always did if you just let him die of natural causes and if something happens you shoot him and then you take it back when you dig a hole and you bury him then i've had it reported that actually between a local state and federal environmental quire ments you really should have the whole supervise make sure you get the right amount of l if there's going to be contamination of the groundwater and you're subject to heavy fines if you don't do it right so i you know when the federal government get involved gets involved we've got so many different aspects to be considered on all crimes of animal cruelty will be collected my public develop but as i mentioned in the opening statement you know they're not required to collect and gather that data on a local level sheriff's tell me that and this is anecdotal so i don't have hard evidence other than just tell me man we've had a lot more horses turned loose and you know we just deal with it but it's been a problem but then that would throw in but i don't need all those folks after me so don't get me in the middle of this so it's kind of tough to get accurate information is as anecdotal as this one horse they've dealt with is dozens of horses but then i did personally hear from a dear sweet lady who is dedicated to helping underprivileged children she's got a form that she uses for underprivileged children and she contacted me and said if if we can't sell our horses like this when they're at the end of their usefulness i can't keep except in horses that people donate she said the trouble with that is these horses really open the kids up and we've got some special needs schools in my county in my district where they use horses and horses have an amazing ability i'm sure most  know when kids get around and they all of a sudden become more open and become more easily educated but she said i can't afford to take money away from what we do use for the kids to dispose of the horses and so she was supporting not having laws to close the facilities and so i wondered you know is there a middle ground is there some way to make sure that these horses are not so inhumanely treated i'm just curious what would be in your opinion the best way to euthanize a horse i'm not terribly convinced that we are all that humane oftentimes in dealing with cats and dogs and you know so doctor i can address that and you know if we had the support of  very gently and peacefully i could design a regime in a place where a horse is put behind a squeeze board and is injected with certain drugs where he would just fall quietly to the ground i did it over and over every day sometimes times a day i could take a horse in the field and i could give him a double cocktail and i'd have him sink peacefully to sleep and then i could administer an intravenous whose grass i mean i injection you believe is really the only way i was involved a little bit with the human euthanasia situation and i don't think he was situations particularly kind with the triple combination that was recently voted as ok and my testimony there was that straight by betrayed injection would be by far the west way to  under certain circumstances when a horse is in a situation of extremis when the blood pressure is extremely low when the drugs are going to travel slowly to where they're supposed to go perhaps equipment prevailing if you have a skilled operator and a stationary horse a captain may be a second string way of killing a horse but it isn't humane the way it's done in the euthanasia process with the bobbing moving head by unskilled operators who have obviously no compassion for animals shouting swearing banging i mean the horses i mean recently we had cattle which are much quieter animals but two percent of cattle are improperly stunned and my estimate was thirty percent of horses are improperly son for that very reason that's a totally different situation from don't mind i'd like to comment on that first of all veterinarians equine veterinarians euthanasia is not fun nobody likes to euthanize an animal but the a v m a did engage a panel in in the year two thousand i believe it was or two thousand and two on a panel on euthanasia and they came up with three forms used to barbiturates use of captive ball and gunshot or the three and those those guidelines were really reinforced i believe in two thousand and seven so those are up to date and no matter how you use denies a horse not everyone is going to react the same i don't care whether you use barbiturates people everyone will be a little different it would be nice if everyone went down every horse went down the same but not all react the same to euthanasia and never is it a fun thing to do  friend i think you know there's one thing the dogs are the difference between barbiturate with capital and gunshot but the added factor here in terms of the welfare of the animal welfare equation is  long distance transport if you do this to the animal at the site whether it's a gun or barbecue it you know you're basically going to you know the animal may suffer for a couple of minutes more but when you transport the animal a thousand miles  know it's going to be hours or days and that i think is the is the central animal welfare question for us on the on the on the handling of the carcasses i do want to point out that there are there are third thirty four million cattle slaughtered in america every year a says there are one to two million dead stock so cattle who die on the farms the farmers are already disposing of those bodies which are functionally equivalent sort of the weight and hopefully most of them are doing it appropriately testimony today would not members may have additional written questions which will forward your answers proper as you can in order that the answers may be made part of the record without objection the record remain open one week for the submission of additional materials