a total of four cases two of them are not being argued but will be submitted later today just on the briefs two submitted cases our appeal number thirty two fourteen from two thousand and nine austin versus merit system office of personnel management mr chesterton warning to you welcome to the court please proceed now and let me clarify one thing how do we correctly pronounce your client's name right  probably brief to the first case it's less weight i support the facts in this case and the facts of this case are after the first case was decided so i think you know the fact it seems like the problem here is that there's a case that suggests that the statute you want to rely on can't ever apply in the circumstances of someone like your client just know that that's the case  acted recklessly for example of the government runs out of money and closes the her up with and therefore all the workers in that office lose their job that would be an example of a rep for government action that results  separation of the employee from the government service with out there in initiative but but as i understand it that's not the type of case we have here so i have a question about get under eighty three thirty eight if it applies and if you can qualify is a certain type of it in amounts in the case of your client early retirement he's going to be able to retire anyway soon but he would be able to retire earlier if he got this involuntary separation retirement under eighty three thirty eight right yes that's the theory or what what did the government do case it whenever it was decided the government didn't do anything wrong at first they say that he exercised her discretion to to revoke a determination going back three four years the time the case was decided not trying to reopen a remark in the first place but the point is that when you look at when you look at the procedural rights for instance gay he was never never terminated and that what is it is a terminations case was there was an allegation procedurally doesn't fit into that whole she was never terminated he never had any procedural right to an n s p would you need the conclusion is he doesn't fit under chapter eighty three were chapter seventy five not under chapter seventy five for the reason we just said he was never fired and not under chapter eighty three because his office lets him clearly and the other things that are listed in that chapter that lead to early retirement statute any chapter in the act why shouldn't your client be a stopped from asking for the equity release of being given this retirement benefit when he essentially complains that they told me i was going to be able to retire for a disability and then they later said no the disability didn't applause but the mistake was closed by him because he  of disability so he created the very problem that he's now complaining about the why should we allow somebody to create a problem and then complain that because the problem happened i can get a special kind of retirement  be right now but absolutely because mr kagan's retirement was voluntary at the time we separated its pursuit to its voluntary application for disability and the only way it can be qualified for disability retirement and based on that we are to use apparently that is resignation was involuntary but that kind of involuntary resignation based on this information is exactly the kind of round of litigation by this gentleman i can write bad news and then well have a chapter seven in five analysis will have another appeal if we still have a final resolution of whether he gets the pension he thinking o if it's not then he doesn't have an involuntary separation you can't have it both ways either he was voluntarily separated because he was acting on it's a correct information the time you made it but then he doesn't get discontinued service it is because he was involuntary separated or he can make the case that he was involuntarily separated because he relied on this information but then he doesn't get its continued service and because this court is that an outlet that wrongful