sixty six of the record he volunteered the information that the five year rule is not a forced in other words a rule by the government that you have to have five years between the birth of the child that's not  sixty six he said it gave no reason why the officer why the officials would do this secondly i think it's really important to point out petitioners counters argument here that there is evidence in this record of the government did not know about the third pregnancy which was the second child born of what he claims was a third pregnancy there that is not supported by the record here he gave no testimony that they were in hiding he did testify that the second child was for in their home town at the same clinic or hospital where the first child was born there's no evidence that the government did not know about that a second child's birth the pregnancy or the birth in addition to that turning his testimony on birth control he says that he testified the government will definitely require definitely it's his word that a couple used birth control if they have more than two children children is to his testimony was that he's one of three children his sister has two children and he did not say that she ever had any problems one of his is the other sister recently married  and he has three children now he said he wasn't if that if his claim is that the birth control authorities were after them and were punishing him and and hi removed it because she had medical problems with that and he testified they were never requested or required to use birth control after that that is inconsistent with his claim that he was being harassed or persecuted or punished because of the the number of children that they had the judge as you said the judge did except that he had a twenty thousand r and b fine imposed against him but i think that's pretty typical in these sorts of cases he testified himself that it wasn't a problem to pay for the time it was a lot more than what he made he made was a fine for it was for having two children having an extra child last year that that was a prohibited government has this policy they're trying to keep the birth rates down but he said it's not a problem to pay these fines because what they do is they they get money from they borrow money from family and friends and sympathetic neighbors and they pay a large blank when he only made fifteen thousand a year at the flying was twenty thousand but your honor he paid sixty thousand to leave the country three times that five apparently he's able to pull together the money when he wants it and when it's necessary country reports the country reports today and she did say that the country reports say that the average number of births is to get a significant number of people in rural areas just mine was that he lives in a rural area that was some page one sixty one that that the average number it significant number of people have families have three children their his his testimony turns out what it turns out to be is that the child i'm still not saying he wouldn't get a third find for their child the question is whether he in fact was persecuted or would be persecuted there's no evidence that he was persecuted or that he and it's perfectly reasonable for the immigration judge to look at this time for reports and look at the statistics in these areas and the fact that he lived in a rural area the number of children that are average the number of children that are common and the number