the budget in finance committee should come to order this is the committee's meeting of august second two thousand and sixteen buttons as i've been instructed green light means your microphone is activated and you are able to speak and be heard light off means the microphone is not working therefore you should not be hurried and eventually wish the chairs will have the control of the quality of microphone so with that we should take testimony heard two testimony the rules of this committee are as follows each just the first has three minutes three minutes only to give comment on any item agenda is for today's meeting to simon beatrice to the chair in the chair only on noise making devices he's requested to be off during the business of this committee and decorum of this chamber we most as district offices if anyone in those districts wish to provide testimony to this committee before we take consideration of the item with that we show started off with the testimony requests within marty thank you for allowing me to testify this morning it's been a long time since i've been in these chambers and scott and interesting to be back i just wanted to share with you one week ago i was having a different experience i was on the on a gurney and now a memorial having eliminating something called bladder cancer so i'm pretty happy to be here and regulation and yeah it's really good and that of by the way the treatment was excellent i am the president of ward of directors of habitat or malle habitat chapter this morning i want to give you some background information on our habitat organization our vision for our maui community is to have a community residing in decent homes and homelessness  send our mission is to do to build decent housing and to renovate substandard housing on maui in partnership with volunteers and a community volunteers and potential existing homeowners as a nonprofit we were incorporated twenty years ago and became an affiliate of habitat international in one thousand nine hundred seventy we have completed over one hundred homes since two thousand and three and we just recently completed a sixteen unit condominium project less than a year ago and for your information we have provided housing for additional sixteen families in the philippines through habitat tithing program we also have a brush with kindness program which is focused on keeping seniors and low income homeowners in their homes we are right critical home repairs and improvements such as handicapped ramps grab bars a new roof of required whatever it takes we've helped over forty families stay in their homes in the last several years each of our projects as home owner for to suppose we require at least five hundred hours of sweat equity by the owner and family in every home an appropriate amount for our other repair programs there is no free lunch but there are interest free loans to cover the cost of the home or the repairs these are paid back over a period of time designed to assure the homeowner will not expend greater than thirty percent of their income for housing repayments are used to feed to finance additional housing we do something else we fund a portion of our activities through the recent tour which not only divert six hundred t or more last year of building materials from the landfill but also provides funds to offset the ministry of expenses of habitat our local resource operation is rated in the top ten percent nationally as a result we are very cost effective organization or a last audited financial statement for the here and to june thirtieth twenty fifteen our management general fundraising expenses were twelve point three percent for total expenditures thank you for the  we forgot about the mikes thank interior and thank you mr thompson for being here this morning your professional timing shows you're familiar with us i wanted to ask a question for clarification you made a statement at  about twelve and some odd percent would you recall point three percent yeah yeah if you look at the total amount of our spending twelve point three percent goes for administrative fund raising and management while everything else goes  home a project we've been working with westbury line company now for almost ten years to try to provide working families a blind chance for affordable housing not since lately the whole line homelands project has there been any affordable housing in la enough and this project is designated to be one hundred percent affordable we're requesting the money appropriated in this bill to purchase ten lots that will be sold to families earning eighty percent and below medium income these are families that would never qualify for a conventional loan and literally we are their only shot at home ownership over the years we've done numerous projects some with developers such as way to cope for and why who really and some on our own such as the project which provided sixteen units on a eleven thousand square foot lot in happy valley we've also worked on renovating substandard housing all over the island and are pleased to now provide that service to the are currently building a home for a woman mrs can you know because her house was so substandard it wasn't suitable for her and her three grandchildren and that house should be finished in the next six months we're also committed to building sixteen homes on  forward partner point homeland and we're working with a developer in to build twenty four homes we are committed to being a part of the solution to homelessness on mallee the blight of a substandard housing on mallee am i and to be part of the solution to the affordable housing crisis habitat leverage is all funds received by using volunteer labor and donated or discounted materials we are a licensed contractor a mortgage company that issues the zero percent equivalent mortgages and mortgage service r with a portfolio of over fifty mortgages we prepare our families and anybody from the public who wants to become a homeowner with free homeowner education classes the infrastructure for co homo will be done in the next three months and the developer will be looking to us for payment for the lot they are giving it to us at a huge discount i'm sure we've already received one hundred twenty interest calls and i'm sure once we put out to the public that we are taking applications that will double or triple we are very interested in being able to finish this project and provide the ten homes and we humbly ask the council to bring this matter to action and hopefully bank where it's a zero equivalent so if we were to issue the mortgage for easy numbers two hundred thousand at zero percent equal to zero percent interest the mortgage payment may be three hundred dollars a month well if a bank issues that at a discounted about and they get to the credit then the payment might be five hundred dollars so we would lower the price of the house to make sure that the payment was still five hundred dollars a month so it's a zero equivalence so they're getting benefit of those are equivalent but at the bank issues the the mortgage because when we issue a mortgage so over twenty or thirty years so we don't get the money back right away and we use that money to build more homes so this way the bank just like any other contract with payoffs or able to project was going through its entitlements and you know our initial vetting of the project and you folks have been involved from the very start so you folks did not have funding or money to carry out your ten units that you were claiming you're going to build at that time you know as you know there was some issues with the project there was someone who was challenging the project and they challenge it all the way up to the intermediate court of appeals and because of that we unable to get funding when the project is in limbo like that nobody will commit funds so it has been a little frantic since the case got resolved ok and you and your folks purchasing doing that that is what this funding is for and so we can purchase them to actually purchase them there and then construction funds also would be coming out of the now we're going to attempt to do u s d a loans and  level in that particular department but briefly explain the buyback mentioned and also the i guess incorporating the sweat equity each each homeowner is required to do five hundred hours of sweat equity two hundred by those living in the home or that will live in the home and another three hundred by their friends and family i can tell you that our experience is that nobody stops a five hundred thousands of hours of our partner family sweat equity go into a house the buy back and the restrictions are are habitats restrictions are twenty years and then you know the affordable housing fund has its own restrictions but ours are a little more restrictive we put a twenty year restriction on it and it's a shared equity so each year just like when i bought my home i'm growing my equity they're growing their equity because obviously we'll be selling the homes to below market value and we don't want someone to be able to turn around and then sell it and make a profit off of the sweat equity of our volunteers from the community so we have a shared equity that slowly grows if the if they do want to sell they have to notify us and we have the option of buying back those in the deed or those somewhat like the deed restrictions as part of those or are how are you exit executing those restrictions it's actually a second on the property ok so we have two mortgages i understand thank you the first on real quickly do you think if they are able they can be here as resource when we get to that i'm sure i'll be here that's not a problem any of the questions from his thoughts and the study on testimony presented this doesn't think you very much think you mark you close please thank you chair my name is marc eco's from line aside to talk to you about item two the solid waste item when people think of why they usually imagine blue oceans mountains cascading waterfalls thriving coral reefs and that's not surprising because that's what we market hawai'i us to help draw in the eight million visitors that come here each year you know humans have an innate connection the natural world we love our mountain ocean views we love the sound of the water that's why high end resorts they develop these tropical landscapes and we're even putting a three million dollar waterfall over at the new airport so when those tourist dollars start flowing in we have no trouble picking that fruit so the question i have is how much of that revenue actually goes back to watering that tree that gives us all the fruit how much actually goes towards protecting preserving and restoring our natural resources when all we do is take fruit from the tree nobody takes the time to water feed it the tree eventually dies and we know our fish populations here are dying our reefs are dying our native species are dying our streams are dry our natural waterfalls are dry ninety percent of our waters are impaired if you haven't noticed our islands are dying you know our incredulous visitors are when i tell them we have no curbside recycling here in maui no waste diversion program and we actually barrier trash a perfectly good raw materials that could be converted into products and it's my understanding that today this committee opposing will be proposing  to eliminate a program that keeps hazardous waste materials out of our landfills program that kept more than twenty tons of batteries and more than thirteen thousand gallons of reusable paint out of our landfill so just picture that first second imagine almost three hundred magine of a truck carrying almost three hundred of those fifty gallon barrels backing up the full of paint what the world health organization is considering as linked to cancer imagine and pouring all that into our landfill so i'm just curious on the budget is there a line item for those external costs or is it just an in kind contribution from the next generation so is this the kind of stewardship that we plan to show the world in september when hawaii takes  stage hosting the i u c n world conservation conference just an interesting side note as i conclude here humans use over three hundred fifty polypep tides to make all the stuff that we need every other natural organism in the on the planet uses five k why is that the case because they don't if you put toxins in the environment that your next generation is exposed to they don't survive so keep that in mind so i conclude please consider keeping the hazardous waste out of our landfills hire dedicated sustainability coordinator and follow the lead of other island nations that have successful cost effective zero waste strategies we just need to water the tree once in a while so all generations can enjoy the fruits thank you thank you for your testimony this morning members any questions to the gentlemen good morning good morning creating affordable housing in perpetuity where really and deeply appreciative of all the support we've received from the county the council and the administration we've received grants for affordable housing totaling approximately four point two million dollars including seven hundred and eighty thousand dollars awarded for fifty percent of the purchase of the land for the hundred percent workforce housing subdivision the other half will be funding we have invested grants that we've received from neighborhood stabilization program the county of maui affordable housing fund and sales proceeds of thirty three community land trust affordable homes that will remain affordable in  other words public funds provided to the seal team will stay with us and they will never be lost the market the homes will not go to market ok so the public funds stay in the projects as has been proven time and time again careful crafting of seal to ground lease resale formulas assures that seal t homeowners are able to realize a fair  equity return on their housing investment while preserving the affordability of the home for a subsequent limited income home buyer households without requiring the infusion of additional son city at the time the property changes hands in so doing the benefit of the investment of public and private dollars needed to create affordability is preserved for generations to come says a quote from the burlington associates and one of the largest oldest land trusts in the united states we look forward to this opportunity to continue to partner with the county of maui to provide affordable houses in perpetuity for income qualified working families earning between that you bring the decision making in the near future so that we can move forward with this project thank you thank you very much for you to the money this morning we welcome mr ward to the meeting the developer does then we will close on the lats half of the funds do come from the county of maui we have an equivalent amount so we're prepared to close as soon as the developer is these funds are the six hundred sixty thousand that is in the the current proposal are needed to help us to free the costs of the vertical construction a lot of it is going to be for fees that are required quite quite a bit of information there are the questions further is is there a timeline i mean or is this item holding up anything that you can do or is there deadline that you're looking at we are dependent on the timeline that comes out of the council and the county we would like to move ahead immediately but we need to know that we have funds coming  our ability to obtain a loan for the rest of the construction we need to have this in place also so yes ok thank you thank you very much thank you peter members of christians so your lands are purchased already in oklahoma and no they are not unfortunately because of the lawsuit that was going on against the l you see by one person out there in the hyena it's held up no one has been able to provide title insurance so the developer cannot sell until they have that it would not be prudent so we are waiting for the developer to finish the subdivision and then we will close within sixty days of that we are under contract we have a contract in escrow we have a small deposit there so it's only a matter of the developer being able to complete the subdivision and then we will close on the land actually own the land or what have you and the next question is do you have the funds to purchase those lands great questions i think a lot of us that are involved in development one of our montrose is you can't count on our time tables i mean we always seem to close off schedule and quite often unfortunately offered by chip although we try very hard not to though we've had  estimates from the developer but they're not they're not solid they keep moving forward the last i heard and sherry testified earlier they're looking at about three months to complete but they have got most of the subdivision the site work completed there's very lift little for them to do once they do that we're we have sixty days to close and i'm not sure that we will need that we just need to know that we will get good title and that's why thank you very much for your testimony this morning i do thank you for allowing us to be here if i could add one more thing we passed out a booklet this morning the front part of the booklet has information about our organization and our policies such as how we make selections for the individual homeowners all those types of things how our four step program works but what i would really like to call to your attention in the back of the folder there is some news articles and testimony we have received from our homeowners as well as our potential home buyers hopeful home buyers so if you would indulge us and take some time to review that you will see how important this program is for us here and mentally thank you very much thank you sedalia next please morning on dave delay on them speaking in favor of the budget thirteen to as an individual for the last two years i've been studying the causes of our housing cri mind would consider building affordable housing in maui county so what i thought this agenda item i celebrated a less action for go home until i noticed the status line that ended no legislative action will be taken that's a signal from the committee chair that this project will face the same fate the mare's homeless initiative that council seriously except that the last time i checked my county was suffering a severe housing crisis you would think the council would be working overtime to get as many homes built as  possible combined with the holly and that element so this item represent twenty two homes are qualified local families deliberately sitting on the money would be an affront to the families the who have worked so hard to make this project a reality the overall project will produce sixty eight affordable homes homes to local families had a can't afford despite the red hot real deep market the develop work deliberately and diligently to produce auto percent affordable a hundred percent affordable project and stood by it a great expense in the face of relentless nimby opposition there's a housing crisis and if so what are you going to do about it well thank you mr delay or any questions for the testifying members misplaced i think that you're not really a question but i wanted to tell you you know if you get really close to the microphone sometimes reverb so we could hear all of that in the back with hard to hear what he might be a good thing you know it's important and you know the whole idea of testimony when i hear it but thank you for giving us that written copy ok thank you very much and other questions for mr giuliani thank you very much i want to just direct your attention to the coma project and that's what i'll talk about you've heard what the holly he has done you have booklets today to have give you more information about the merits of this organization but i want to just direct to come home this is a hundred percent affordable project and it's had more than its share of delays some of those delays were totally unnecessary and  unfair so now we are ten years to get affordable housing built specially on the west side which is so desperate for this affordable housing so i just want to ask you today i remember sitting in the gallery one time when it was an issue here and it didn't have quite the wording in that in the in the issue and so it could have been said back to a committee or just deferred what you folks did in this room was amazing he took a recess and then you hovered over a computer over there and you worked it out and it didn't take that long and then it came back to the floor for action and things got done that was a get it done moment so what i'm here to ask you today is think about having a get it done moment what we're talking about is we have twelve lots that are going to be developed in ca home that doesn't sound much when you look at the big picture of affordable housing and the lack of affordable housing but to those twelve families that will be going into those homes it is huge it is a big moment for them and i just s chair so mr chair let's have a get it done moment today when you all finish your work here today and you go home go home with the feeling that you've done something really good for some of these very needy families they're qualified they're in our program they work very diligently to stay qualified in this program and the west side of maui really needs affordable housing together with habitat together with naleo molly west maui who's developing the entire project let that be a legacy that you've done something good for the people of west mali i ask you and i beg you please do not kick this can down the road take action thank you very much for the  time you've given me to testify thank you for your passionate testimony it's a trial you're very present at our meeting so we thank you for your steadfastness members questions for the gentleman testimony shared this good morning mr chairman morning council that's a hard one to follow a good job mike i'm here to testify on i'm sorry my name's lawrence carney cheli i'm here to testify on be if thirteen two  and more specifically the six words at the bottom no legislative action will be taken it's like oh my goodness you know this is ten years ago i have heard this right ten years in the making especially part she lost all pro se no skin in the game and delayed this thing for ten years sixty eight affordable houses were ready this same body last week decided to put together a task force to address the affordable housing issue i believe council member cochran's going to be in charge of that site how wonderful we get it were there and then we're we're not going to take any legislative action and so this is this everything about this project perfect it's it's part of the community plan zoning and holly o'malley habitat for humanity everything that you want this is what it is and we're not going to take legislative action so i'm just here because i mean i i feel very passionately about natalee all molly and affordable housing and so i want to be here but i can't wait to show up again when we're going to take action when mr chair hopefully put it back on the agenda soon where we can actually take action and you guys can vote on this in some way shape or form and get the funds to the people that need it sixty eight families sixty eight families thank you thank you for your comments mr courage show me members questions for the german thank you for being if that is correct if you would please come down and share your thoughts with us please good morning good morning and thank you chair and council for this opportunity to testify on the ever popular b f thirteen to i am victoria a founding supporter of the holly o'malley proud board member of habitat for humanity and a realtor whose happiest moments are helping renters become homeowners that's very hard to do on maui with the high prices for a real estate it is especially hard to do on the west side are currently only two houses available for six hundred thousand or below one's rate at six hundred thousand and both of them would be very hard if not impossible to get a loan on that's the only reason they're still available please vote to really see affordable housing funds to habitat for humanity and naleo moey take legislative action they call home a project is desperately needed thank you thank get a loan well thank you for that clarification among the stone is that your name and following her will be free t hazardous waste recycling was going to stop on maui and that that got me very concerned so we all understand that we live on a finite landmass in the middle of the pacific ocean to one of the most one of the favorite tourist destinations in the world to many and with them they bring not just them all of us waste when we're making decisions for our county we need to plan thinking interest in or generationally not just twenty years we need to be thinking about our children's children's children and as decision makers that's that's a big job one of the pillars of sustainability is recycling and reducing waste too and reducing the waste of the landfill and reducing environmental harms do we know how much metals that we go through on a daily basis for a year or twenty years and how much toxins they'll put into the earth  mark diego's was trying to paint a picture for you guys i thought that was good what organisms they'll be affecting on the other hand if we can't afford recycling then can't really afford to pollute should we stop buying batteries should we start buying metal should we stop having paint that honolulu a bad day when you enter after you park and you go down the hill there's a sign that says pack it in pack it out because right now there is no current management of the area so maybe we need to start thinking of that as a as a county if we don't have a place to put it then maybe we shouldn't be using it so that's basically it i'm just i'm i'm worried about polluting paradise and i don't think we can just  be defeated about that i think we need to just keep working till we find solutions thank you thank you for reading here this morning we did a good job you sharing your thoughts with think you members any questions for the levy on topic i would like to first say that while i have a little bit of time i'm in favor of thirteen to i could speak more on that but i want to ask for extra time i might go into four minutes i am also in need of three about it i've been following this recites that recycling department since its inception i actually competed in the local contest i've applied for a job and that department three times with with not getting it obviously i have met with stuart stance he knows exactly how i feel and i just want to take this opportunity to publicly say that i've been promised that compost to be a a priority and that's going to be considered as he moves forward in its new capacity i feel like there's some revenue to be made there nobody has really you know it's lengthly explanation but there's actually money to be made there i don't know how to explain it but this might be a new term to you guys but it's green stream you know if we capture that green stream from the recycle the restaurants and the hotels and we tumble that we've got some expert you know organic compost makers are already i think i had mentioned to consummate couch he was unaware of in his own district compost is doing really well there running into three years you take that and you times that by about forty and we can do this we can take that green stream from the recycling and the hotels and we can tumble compost and we have a cute little sexy bag of maui dirt and sell it and make some money i have heard some here say about why we we every year we come back and we ask for more money and you know it's all real political stuff that i don't don't understand but i'm tired i've been watching this this department the double on it you know i don't want to see this happen again next year the wait time at the mall we knew the time that the citizens have to call and say what are you talking about and wrapping batteries in newspaper and throwing it in the landfill is unacceptable unacceptable we got to do this two month wait so that we could like go find the money and do whatever this game is it's not going to happen next year it's not going to happen next year because we got somebody new we got some fresh ideas what else can i say you know i will submit something in writing because i have too much to say i'm you know ok thank you for reinstating the recycling considering to reinstate all the recycling thank you for your testimony members questions for miss chase eighty eight and b f ninety absolutely i come from the state of washington and we have such a fine recycling program their yard waste a pizza boxes everything gets compost styrofoam gets compost so when i go home to visit my family in washington and i'm taking empties to cases back there i pack it with stair foam i collect on the highway because i know i can recycle it in washington so when i when they see our county going towards the direction of cutting this basic ecological service it just infuriates me and saddens me to no end the money is spent in educating people how to recycle and reduce their waste is an invaluable piece of education it can reduce the amount of times our garbage is picked up i live in west they're picking up my trash twice a week i can i can't even imagine why once a week wouldn't suffice if people were able to recycle their their green waste recycle everything that they have to recycle many many days when we leave our home we have to see burnt out cars on the roadway and people just dumping their washing machines in there they're appliances because nobody's you know i mean even though we have a program to deal with this metal right now a lot of people still don't do it so can you imagine just eliminating metal completely and batteries where's that stuff going to land up and what is the environmental cost to this island and that really needs to be considered because i don't think the environmental cost of of what will happen if we don't deal with this waste properly has been considered nor the inverter nor the the impression of the tourism that we have coming to our island and seeing burnt out cars and dumped  appliances every in every spot available i mean it just saddens me to see that so i really support this i think it should be expanded tenfold and i would like to see the county step we have to deal with the affordable housing issue correctly and it's been long overdue so i think you do the good job thank you any questions for the levy on purpose the moody members thank you very much for being here just  and i just wanted a different perspective i see in the real thousand testify see everybody testify but i am a secular generation recipient and i'm still grateful i love my life because i own a home in paella and call home  stream is almost identical to thank you ladies for you systems to this committee members we know for the requests for just the mony we show clues testimony for today's meeting thank you members ordered would take the items in order as we have proposed this may direct you to the b f eighty eight we have a communication from mr bob was sixteen this one forty five is sent as a proposed bill for an management from the state department of health and the total grant from the health department is in the amount of money one thousand one hundred dollars budget office any comments him here yes so basically the this funding for their class recovery program and you're giving receiving a grant in order to carry this out and you're seeking your approval to accept that to continue the program or it has it not been occurring department increased by the state of hawaii by sixteen thousand one hundred there's no changes to the program ok ok this is that he's the holders who collect the recycling from commercial businesses department of finance county away costs total operating appropriations total appropriations operating and keppra improvement projects as well as  we also have a certification from the administration dated july seventh two thousand and sixteen regarding four hundred thousand dollars of carrier oversea remains from the general fund as part of this consideration the department is proposing to increase the rates related to the increase in contractual services and is also requesting a supplemental transfer from the general fund of four hundred thousand dollars in addition the department is proposing additional revisions to appendix b rates and fees as it relates to the interim fee schedule to coincide with the new scaled to fee of eighty one dollars per tonne for municipal solid waste we have representatives from the department to answer any questions that you on syria where the four hundred thousand is a shortfall if the rates in fees and the adjustments are are done and approved thank you thank you mr ashley anything you'd like to add at this t express concerns about the increase proposals that the vendors were providing to the department and the consultation with the department and that they were after we came up with a budgetary number  to allow them to further negotiate for the county's benefit which in turn is the taxpayers benefit they were but the result is we're here today with a budget amendment but i want to state that the department did move forward in consultation with this committee trying to again contain cost increases where we thought was reasonable and so the department move forward as we head in as we understood through the budget session process so this is not a surprise for you chair we are allowed to department to the to the best you could in negotiating better terms for the county and this is where we are at at this point in time with this consideration which i would state that i don't for look forward to this being done next year  better option to move forward in regarding recycling status quo is not good enough for this chair mr stent any other comments you think to give regarding your and her standing committee at this stage so we look forward to some direction from cochran through her committee regarding the potential options for us to consider in the next budget  cycle mr white questions for the department or the budget office recording this proposals which are the ordinances and as well as a certification of revenue they could share what  had on the first page of the transmittal it states that for seventeen proposed fees for biosolids ninety dollars a ton uncontaminated greenway says twenty five and grease trap sixty seven are those the ones that were in the in our final proposal are those the fees that were proposed initially department by by the department those are the fees that are related to the price that came in from the ecos contract we are proposing to drop those rates and fees down for the biosolids from one hundred three to ninety commercial greenways from thirty six to twenty five little bit more confused ok so can you share with us the reason for the reduction in the the fee for contaminated cooking o trap yes the vendor who is the contractor is the only vendor who brings in that material recession you have to please speak up in the microphone so all members can hear thank you eco compost was the bigger they are also the only vendor who crosses the scale with grease trap waste so the reduction in that only impacted them which is why they were willing to negotiate  sixty seven all the way down to thirty ok and then for the budget folks the total change on page three total estimated revenues is nine hundred forty eight thousand five eighty five and the the amount of revenues that you're transferring from the general fund is four hundred thousand and the revenues are one hundred forty eight thousand something which adds up to about five something so i'm just wonder where the additional roughly four hundred thousand comes from chair miss actually that four hundred thousand dollars it's actually carry over savings it's not in additional revenue it's just the way that it's presented in the budget as a four hundred after the reason for the question is that they're saying there's a shortfall of six hundred forty four thousand but the change and estimated revenues is is nine hundred forty eight thousand f eighty eight so you've got some time on b f eighty eight i apologize we are good i'm going to ask you to allow staff to make non substantive changes to the documents because if you look at amendment and we've already amended the so we're going to need to make non substantive verbiage adjustments to conform to your actions of this morning objection thank  transfers and so forth it ends up at us double counting the four hundred thousand dollars so so i don't need an answer that question thank you keith thank you very much i should say it should say that i got an answer to that question thank you yes thank you and again members any questions on this this is just how we fund the money through the various accounts so we had to do a recognition we had to place  transfer and but at the end of today it is still four hundred thousand dollars ok any of the questions mr coach thank you mr chair  did kept that up then we we wouldn't have to go into the carry over savings as much i mean that's the price that they're already paying now right there we're already paying now and i know it's not it's not listed here but we did when we were going through the budget especially when we knew he was here we didn't get any indication that you were going to stop the battery in the paint program what are the car because it is listed as far as one of the things i believe in the in the transmittal what would the cost be to continue those programs with a battery in the ok so the paint in batteries program was funded by a grant the grant amount came in it did seven thousand five hundred dollars for this fiscal year which was a significant increase over previous fiscal years sorry could you repeat the question so it was sprung on i say at least on me in the elevator with a sign that says we're not doing battery and unpaid recycling anymore due to lack of funding and we didn't hear it at all during the budget process so my question is how much more would it cost us to do that that those two continue those programs that as you could hear were  pretty popular programs well the cost to reinstate the grant as i said would be fifty seven thousand five hundred dollars it wasn't brought up in the budget cycle because we had not yet received the grant applications and we didn't know what the requests from the organizations would be we had a number of them and when they came in we prioritized cycling because that brings in a million four hundred thousand pounds of hazardous waste that's diverted from the landfill each year and then we also opted to fund the used motor oil recycling program because we thought that was a higher value than the paint in batteries keep in mind that we also host and have a current contract within virus services to do household hazardous waste collection of bands one just happened in june twenty fifth and twenty six we are hoping depending on how our budget cycle goes for  year eighteen that we will have one in august or twenty seventeen so there are other options for the batteries and for paint and chemicals that are not latex it's just not as convenient as before folks would have to hold on to their batteries for a year but we do we are providing other options for those but essentially to answer your question you know fifty seven thousand five hundred more that's asking or so we came up we're figured out you  know some more carry over savings or whatever it's only fifty seven thousand to reinstate those processes programs correct right respectfully ask that you work with the budget committee to come up see if you can come up with that extra fifty seven thousand because i know i would support or know how many body my colleagues would support it but for that amount of money to to be able to continue that would be well worth it in my opinion anyway thank you thank you thank you and again mr coach we received the proposals we don't develop the proposals so th and i you folks have it i guess offset it by x amount of dollars with this balance of about four hundred thousand if we so we need to adjust these rates and fees at their show showing us here for bio specifically the consideration of your proposal before the members of this committee is to do with the column this is updated fiscal year seventeen propose fees is that correct you show us with the one forty eight favor eighty five black in the black so is this already part of the calculation of your divisions requirements of is this considered i believe that's the difference that we would read we lowered their rates and increased and lowered their rates and fees as we proposed so is this truly additional revenue or is this very clear on from the communities perspective good sorry can you repeat your last comment so my understand of their response is they need the four hundred thousand in the care over certification plus this one forty five eighty five to help offset their need of adjustments forty four and seventy three where the communication i'm playing is four hundred and this one forty is inclusive of the home ok and i'm looking at the so there's several steps here in order to get this funding that they're asking for correct adjusting reason fees and so i'm just trying to break it down so all these contracts were in place last year all of them right all your contract years thing is certain contracts are not going to be extended by contractor for f wife seventeen so here you are asking for this money in order to keep them going or write programs to continue but last year they all were functioning all the programs are paid and they were all being accomplished that is correct but in fiscal year sixteen that's when the eco compost told us that they didn't want to extend the contract because they were losing money they asked to rebid and unfortunately they rebid at a million dollars extra four hundred of which was a surprise we did speak to them ahead of time we assumed six hundred thousand additional but then they upped it another four hundred thousand which is essentially why we're in this situation and so looking at your our ra now in a negative when you're asking for more money well dropping the grease trap ways actually saves us money that we don't have to pay them and then the biosolids increase will then require wastewater to amend their budget to then be able to give us that extra because we can't make them pay an amount that isn't you know an approved r i don't know if that answers your question i think in overall budget chair looking back at the numbers that we provided for them and this year's we gave a million extra but they have an additional million from previous budget so to say that we're short this fifty seven some odd dollar you know for me is sounding very ridiculous right now and jumping on mr couch as chris chair for i don't mind he was asking paine battery how much does he need so the fifty seven five came up but the hazardous waste portion that was an active program and now you're cutting it out because you cannot find funding for it this year what is that amount or what was the price before and now did it go up so now you just can't afford it at all ok so let me clarify there's two completely separate programs right we're discussing the paint in batteries is a grand and household hazardous waste collection of events is a contract the household has a sways collection of events are not the contract isn't being canceled we're simply scheduling the next event for august to twenty seventeen the battery and paint program as part of a grant and so with the grant we were given x amount of money two hundred thirty nine thousand dollars we don't typically take funds from other areas to fund grants and so  we are in the situation we were in we had two hundred thirty nine thousand dollars the the cycling the paint and batteries and there was also a line a lunar grant that came in for a very small amount so those grants all added up to more than the two hundred  thirty nine thousand which is why we cut the paint and batteries sort of a separate line item in the budget from our typical index code in the contract services so we've we don't roll those over so because the grant contract going they enjoy having to do the job here and their business and so i i'm just a little confused on that part but that's so i don't know where all that thank you i could provide  letter or email stating that they are or asking us to rebid the contract if they didn't want to extend under the current terms actually more questions than conclusions but i think a lot of it is the way that this is presented and it is confusing and it's hard to follow but the bottom line from what i can understand is that they need this money to continue doing what they're doing and they want us to adjust the fees up and winding down and i'm not really sure about so maybe somebody can go over that one more time but i also share member cultures concern i wish that we could find fifty seven thousand dollars and i know that it is it to save hundred fifty seven thousand dollars but where do we find it from is always a question and who is willing to give it up or where can we find it but i think what is confusing us are these feel just minutes where we up one going down and when it comes up to one forty eight and if we took out that one hundred ninety three thousand dollar reduction we'd have more money we'd be plus so i want to be clear in that i'm not and i think others also are confused and it's just the way that it's it's all blame here it's not clear thank you well we appreciate your comment this precise for those that are not familiar with counties  grant you that but mr buzz made sure that it is within the parameters of consideration for this community mr misato you for some of the guys can either of you give additional comment to maybe bring further clarification on this requests as regards to the various components contract the way it was set up or to negotiation they the contractor was going to for by all these only i mean for sorry for cooking oil only was going to match whatever fee we charged so from a budgeting perspective as far as the the vision is concerned when that reduction happens our budget need reduces but we're not technically looking at the revenue coming in so that's why it looks weird on here but it's because we're from again a budget perspective that's just less budget that we need for that contract but again with that we lose the revenue which then we've got to make up from somewhere else  not sure if that makes sense at this myspace or the she needs for the clarification here is mud but you know my my point is when i do not understand the workings of a department or how it does its business i have complete trust and faith that you folks know what you're doing and i know that our budget chair doesn't let anything slip by it doesn't make sense so i can live with it but it is very confusing i think it's because of the nature of this work which i'm not very familiar with how all this you know that you take it out here you put it over there you contract this why did you sell that and so that's why we have experts and i'm comfortable thank you mr lloyd i agree with mr couch as point but my recollection is that we are unable to amend a budget amendment is that correct generally that's correct and if we are for unable to amend the totals we can't really mess with the fee proposals either is that correct that is the cheers understanding of our rules clarify there have been a few statements about this being an essential service a p a does deem that region nine that small quantities of household hazardous waste excuse me are allowable in our landfill and so what we do is we educate the public on the proper way to use a little absorbent solidify and dispose of the wastes so the waste would be disposed of in the landfill unless folks held onto it and tape took it to our household hazardous waste collection event but again this is a permit is acceptable method of disposing of this type of waste by government it's permitted that's what you notice do you know oh they're the fifty thousand dollars that we gave this year to newry how they're utilizing not that i have any bearing on this because it's a grant to them and so this grant for the batteries and paints that they normally take care of for us is going in the order towards that  well the fifty three the fifty thousand dollars that was granted from a llama mowing knew it was for a different program it was for the hawaii beautification program and it was to assist with funding and operations manager to help make the organization  more efficient in my misspeaking well tamara farnsworth is in the audience and she manages this program perhaps she might want to answer ok sustainability division as the abandoned vehicles and metals administrator i manage the grant with the new me the largest grant that they have which is the keep maui beautiful grant  they deal with cleaning up illegal dump sites they deal with the recycling education primarily with that grant the painting batteries grant  is like a separate kind of item and grant that is managed by the recycling section so it's that particular funding was specifically for that type of work so to get it straight the department you're you folks have the contract or you put the program out there and then you had rolling it out and doing the actual program for that on your behalf for ever seen on a dollars and this year you decided to cut it or couldn't find the funding that fifty seven five of sorts so that is why i'm no longer is doing it because the department got it yes there were in adequate funds to fund all of the different grants that we wanted to address and we prioritize to use more oil and east cycling in particular because those we found to be have more impact on the iron and the landfills than pain i'm sorry i didn't bring that data with me more can ok well i did a comparison kind of roughly you don't have any idea i mean fifty seven five it was i believe  thousand i believe last year it was approx it was a around the same amount but the fiscal year before it was significantly lower i believe about twenty four thousand lower and the year before that fiscal year fourteen the us in the paint and batteries were combined and so again both of those programs were seen at significantly lower costs mowing new way has regrouped in their refocusing in creating new direction and trying to manage their programs much more efficiently and so as they've analyzed with a new director they've realized that what they were charging wasn't adequate and so all of those costs have increased still doesn't we paid it i think i have the same challenge that was cochran has we have the same amount of funding but we've chosen different priorities and i understand privatization of utilizing the grant money but i don't understand as why we were given the option of providing additional funding to the tune of fifty seven thousand dollars i think everyone in this room given the option would have said let's cover batteries and paints if we need to i think part of this part of the challenge is the shortfall that we ended up with when the highway beautification fund was found to be  just having insufficient funds but having no funds and so we had to significantly cut back but i think this body would have would have filled in the void had we been  given the option maybe they were given the option we missed it but anyway i look forward to the department coming back with another recommendation since we can't deal with it in today's bill  and then forty five thousand for the motor oil use more or i mean forty five thousand that's not a whole lot and again if we had known at the time just like the battery costs if probably would have gotten down so the six hundred is a big truck i see that but forty five for used motor oil program you know i think that's quite doable so my comments think you're think you missed anyone else so again we're pretty much proving something already decided on however i would say the committee has brought ups very pertinent points regarding other areas of this division and so misato i will ask you to communicate to director that this committee is open to a proposal regarding some of the issues that were brought up regarding the text paint is for disposal and members of the council on just a note our department will continue to do the best we can to serve especially with the resources that we do have but on another issue it put this request being approved it the the metals again so there's other party who will be looking at and we continue we will continue mr chair to do it as long as we have the resources to do it in our divisions i'm aware that my directions thank you yes miss cochran i think you know maybe separate considerations i read recently in the paper that a recycling coordinator had been reinstated into the department and so if i'm not mistaken that may make two people now there and if that's the case if it could be made you could make do with the one that costs of that second coordinator could be put towards these programs such as the fifty seven five hundred forty five thousand for the used motor oil so that was just a thought perhaps  you know so i just want to get comments i guess from directors down there to thank you councillor what i can say is because of that lack of that one person for over two years there's a lot of pressure and and workload that was put on our present staff so there was a lot of would you call responsibilities that was was backlog they did what they could with the priorities that we set  right now with the person returning to work she is she has a lot of catching up to do on top of actually learning being away for two years it's like having somebody new step in although she has a lot of experience in doing in the past a lot of things have changed so not only learning the requirements which is a staff is presently teaching her it's catching up with all of the responsibilities that you know fell behind so yes we are taking that into consideration  thank you ok chair that brings up a question this person has been out for two years so you need another budget amendment to pay for their salaries now that they're what the church knows is that the department had to abide by certain parameters regarding this personal issues so if you feel it as a requirement to make a decision just i'm going to  so i'd leave it to you members but i know what you say miss cochran and if the person was on paid with leave would pay then yes that person has been collecting a paycheck for two years by these comes by this column and i am not sure what is the actual status leave with pay or leave i'm not sure the department would be able to respond in an appropriate manner if this what the committee chooses for information in my statement to the committee thank you charlie we would prefer that personal matters be discussed not in an open session thank you to members the grant cycle is renewed each year every year in january we put the application up on the web and folks can apply and they apply in march and then by july we usually have the grants in place and that's when they begin and make over one year ok so this is not grant money from someone else's money that we are granting corrector ed and if you don't mind me making a clarification part of the reason why we have less funding for the paint and batteries and for the used motor oil is because the funding that we used to get from the state is no longer coming in although to be great news for m reconvene our budget in france meeting we are now on thirteen dash two this is a two hundred sixteen west to my we affordable housing front and you plan to secure your two thousand and seventeen which is from july one two thousand and sixteen to june thirtieth twenty seven eighteen we have from mr burroughs excuse me not from mr baez but we have as part of the communication sixteen this one twenty and you chairs this it is as no legislative action to day for various reasons one even if we did this project chemical for two subdivision is completed and that is the word i got reconfirmed this morning from our people in public works regarding the subdivision it's at least two months so we still need  second as part of this question on this proposal i find it interesting that part of the issue is of course that real estate sector norm housing cred it's interesting we paean ourselves when we can ourselves do the work of the develope because i think what we need to also remember is who is spain for this affordable housing fund and why we asked what have you done with the monies you have been expended or granted appropriation prior to another consideration interest we get the calls i get has what do you do with the money before you get people telling me to really spend the money really members of the committee my name is carol women and the director of the housing and human concerns we conducted every quest for proposals from the mile we counties affordable housing fund for projects located in west maui has approximately three million nine hundred nine thousand dollars reserved specifically for projects in west maui public notices for the r p application process was published in march twentieth and march twenty official application process was march twenty eighth to april twenty ninth we received to our placation its a three member scoring committee was selected and the committee reviewed and scored the applications based on the department's scoring system and criteria the committee scores for each application were average and both projects met the minimum scoring to be selected america amended by the department for finding agencies and projects recommended as project at one point five million dollars which would bring ten homes the total finding recommended for fiscal year two thousand and sixteen west while the annual plan is two million one hundred sixty thousand dollars to construct twenty two homes which would leave a total of one million seven hundred forty nine thousand for the next hour of peace cycle and the department is your chance for any questions we also have representatives from the holly and habitat care to answer questions as well thank you l thank you for being your department budget chair mention about the subdivision process and the lands actually not being secured as of this day how do you justify consideration for these funds if we don't have the means source in the hands of the project halt the project and that the green light had been given for them to obtain bonded final subdivision and move forward we move forward under that understanding we understand there has been a hiccup or two that should not delay the project much longer has what we're hopeful for it takes time for us to approve the funding at the grand strategy executed so we felt that the timing was appropriate for us to recommend a move forward with the funding for these projects subsidy because we have in our affordable housing fund then part of the annual plan i guess for this three million somewhat dollars for west maui projects and i hope there's the follow through to make sure that the lance or be made available sooner than expected and  i think you've we've missed led our community by pushing the efforts to push forward i understand there is a process with the grants and they can appreciate that process and but you know we don't have the landsea and yes we've had intervention so far as you know if in fact when this first came out i was hoping would have legislation but in in going through the agenda and recognizing that we don't even have the lands available for it now holly nor for the habitat for humanity i think we should be concentrating on that those proceeds for this craft the six hundred sixty thousand they're currently requests for construction they already have a grant in place for the fire fiscal year request for proposal up with the actual process to assist them with a fifty percent can provide a copy of the scoring criteria that would probably be the best way for you to reissue it in detail absolutely we can get a copy ok very good i think one specific question in regards to that is perpetuity at all involved in school scoring  look at that yes the the minimum would be the requirements in chapter two point one six of the workforce housing ordinance however obviously more weight is given to projects that have longer deed restrictions or will keep the properties and affordability for longer periods of time so how to tighten the holly are two of the agencies that do that as we don't know holly in perpetuity and habitat you know twenty to twenty five years usually is their their mortgages so they're the silent second issue mentioned keep them affordable for longer than the work for a saucy ordinance so they would be given more scoring for the affordability  and one of my questions also was how the money was going to be utilized by the two different entities and sawyer understand habitat there the money's being asked is strictly just for lab and not construction or both the application supplies that is for both for both the purchase of the land and ok and and i i completely hear crew a cheerful commas opening comments just to lay it out there and it was i believe the two of us who initially did vote no votes on this project overall i had my reasons and i'm sure it is probably slightly different from mine but in general the credit condition is very upsetting to me i don't agree with that and the other is these projects came in pretty much promise seen what they're going to provide which is the heart of the housing and all this great stuff that people know are banging down the door to get done and at that time it was never stated no money truly to carry to fulfill those promises you know coal construction was up in the air lands have not been truly you know gotten and what have you so for me this is very premature a madman or i guess a lack of you know having it together beforehand but i truly believe it because i've talked to people in west maui and other construction contractors that they're willing to do this type of work so i'm very surprised that these are the only two entities that actually applied and you know i'm actually i'm glad that we're not taking legislative action actually today it still needs some bedding out and i think there's other and i rather see new projects these are already been promised and said they're going to be built now with our taxpayer dollars on top of that given the landowner credits that to me is very ridiculous so i would like to see a new fresh people who are willing to build and construct and actually construct with this funds one hundred twenty thousand per lock in the first second paragraph it says vacant lots will be sold at fifty percent of the price of a three bedroom home within the median income range looking at the amended income ranges in the residential workforce housing agreement a three bedroom house a lot only i guess i should say th or that would be at the less than eighty percent would be one hundred sixty five six hundred at the less than one hundred percent two hundred seven thousand at the less than one hundred twenty percent two hundred forty eight thousand four hundred at the less than one hundred forty percent two hundred eighty nine thousand seven hundred fifty at the less than one hundred sixty percent three hundred thirty one thousand one hundred fifty thank you and the reason i asked the question is that i think is provide us with the department to provide us with the rationale for the credits and also provide us somewhat of a comparison between whether you know what the prices are there providing the votes to  habitat in the holiday for versus what it says i want to find out what what would be the average discount on the on each of the last is it is going to be similar to the funding that the county is providing about just how much of a discount is it i'm not sure which category or whether each of the categories is going to be represented or so these may end up going to market market price a mr white i believe all of the habitat homes are for the less think percent so no i understand that i'm i'm only a know what the differences between yet what it will be one hundred sixty five thousand habitat what are they means what are they likely to be sold for versus the discount that these two organizations are getting i just want to get a sense of how much the developer is giving up and how that remaining affordable and the market you know the market well forward that to the department restored so they can respond if you chance to your requests in the questions mr i know i'm you know i'm very supportive of both of these projects because i think we're way behind on affordable housing them and i provisions were actually allocated just for those two entities the mohali and habitat i think is part of the conditions where they not i don't recall but i  recall it being somewhat discuss that at least some of them i think was testifying during that time and the land use committee mr white has a lot of good points that need to be i guess answered in my mind is wow but i would like to see this resolved and this is a good project in my mind the question of whether the the lots are being sold a said discount to the  committee members the chair will look at pete for posting again to keep q in spacetime thank you very much chair i don't think that i can add to what member carol has said i'd like to say that you know i really support what he has to say and i think that that is a good position for us today you know i came in radio with the same questions that everybody else has a bug why can't we move this but after hearing you know all the things that we've heard today i understand there's probably a need for more information and i would urge that we try to do this as quickly as possible you know the take the housing take just met once and you know i think there is a huge commitment by everybody on this council to move affordable housing i don't think there's any doubt about that that all of us want to do it but and we also are beginning to i'm beginning to understand is that we're going to have to subsidize affordable housing it's just not going to happen you know when you look at all the things that are required and how hard it is in the market that we're in we're going to have to subsidize it and if we do and we want strongly urge you to let's try to move this is quick as we can and i know you will thank you thank you myspace mr coach thank you mr chair i have a couple questions and then maybe depending on the answers with the my comments will be first question kind of tacking on to what chair white and member guzman were talking about a lot prices a lot prices are one sixty five k for most of the lots i mean they're not getting a discount or are they the lots are pretty much the are there nobody getting a discount on any watts from the developer or are they if you look at the documents there is differences in the price of the lots mr coach but project however if the project is one hundred percent affordable and yet the rest of us just say ok so so then chair whites requests for information still as there is what what is that difference so  the other thing is the credits it's one hundred percent affordable to a one h project if i recall so and they're getting fifty percent credit or what are they getting actually that's a very good question according to the law as we have she's going to draft in two point one six hundred to one each project if it's one hundred percent affordable the developer can receive as much as forty nine percent of the units as credits because they are required to provide fifty one percent right ok so far i'm sorry forty nine percent correct correct so i am in this case they are only asking for ten they i don't know what forty nine percent of sixty eight is but they could have come in every quest of that amount or what the law is today so they're only asking for ten credits correct ok and you know forgive me mr chair on the credit i get heartburn on people who have concerns with the credits if it's less that they're required to build fifty one homes let's say it's one hundred homes some divisions they're required to build fifty one homes if they build one hundred homes they build forty nine homes more than are required so that means there's extra homes forty nine extra homes they're asking for credit for only ten of those extra homes and the reason they  that's helped provide funding to do affordable housing instead of the county subsidizing them so these ten homes they built forty nine extra homes but they're only asking for credit for ten homes so there's thirty nine extra homes that are out there that are affordable that they weren't required to build so you know yes they should get credit it helps it helps provide affordable housing somebody else who has to provide tenant before the homes can say there are already built it's not that they're not building affordable homes those homes are already built that's what the credits are for so the credits especially if they're only asking for ten credits i don't think that's an issue at all in my mind that that's just you know they get the money to help provide affordable homes from the private sector instead of us providing homes funding yes we need to provide funding for especially perpetuity homes community land community based land trust are our first and most important thing is a perpetuity i've been saying that since for six years on this for more pictured perpetuity and more rentals that's what we really need so i'm very supportive now if there's a timing issue if they need the assurances yes they're going to get the money they don't get the money until it's time for them to receive the money what they're asking from us is hate are we going to be able to get the money when when we need it and i think i don't think anybody here has an issue with them getting the money when they need it in my opinion if people do than that you know credits out of and i'm just use the number one hundred so i don't know exactly what the total number of homes that they're building i forgot what it was but for crying out loud you know only ten credits let's get this going in and i would appreciate the fact mr chair that you're willing to bring it up as soon as those answers are provided so the sooner the better so that they get the insurance  get their other funny if you look at if you look at the application for holly o'malley they're asking for six hundred sixty thousand dollars and they're leveraging that money to get five million dollars that's what we that's what you always espouse mr chair and everybody here hey you're leveraging money great so the sooner the better so they can get that leverage going in my opinion thank you  it does it make sense is there not a need for two three bedrooms i mean what was the department's understood anyway you would support a project believe the bedroom calm you know is sufficient to provide adequate housing for far residence so we were in support of it when we initially met with them and they move forward with submitting their plans you but we're looking at four hundred thousand as the rental so sprays are already heard we've heard enough testimony that number is not a good number the committee land trust structure my understanding is you are buying the lapp and building only and you have all of a cheaper land lease is my understanding thank you for we just going through what is on the hundred four hundred to four hundred fifty thousand so my question is more why do we settle at this number of good germs at this kind of cost pricing from the committee needs to know no thank you sharon and i appreciate the question we meet with a lot of developers proposing a lot of different projects they range in size and capacity allowance  for this particular project we felt that it did serve a niche there's definitely a need for studios one bedrooms rentals but this particular project is a four cyl project and we felt that the size and scope that was being presented to us was definitely serving a niche need and we were supportive of it but as you know with the other developers we meet with we're definitely trying to pursue and meet the requirements for all the different types of housing that are needed this is a project of this came forward that we felt again was adequate in meeting a definite need in the society in the community thank interested in what the department used to determine is this isn't to move this proposal for it is a supported requests what did you base your decisions on fair i'm just to clarify are you referring to what determined the recommendation of the programs for funding for the holiday for knowledge of the scoring committee that was convened there is you we can also provide a copy of the scoring so you can see the average scoring for free each project and that way you can better probably analyze how the project met the minimum requirements and why they were recommended by the department unfortunately i don't have the scoring with me so i can't comment at this time but we can provide that information to you thank you members you have questions you want to ask either on the mohali project or habitat project we do have representatives from those agencies if you wish to get responses from them keep forgetting about this microphone thank you it's it's interesting to me that we're talking about goodnight and you know that's been a sticking point for me for a long long time and i brought it up when we were at nickel with their incoming second base president and i asked him if he would make it a priority to look into it because sometimes i wonder where these guidelines come from and how they're determined because you know they've in the real world we're real people and we know that a lot of them are not making this median income i think that that is skewed by people under very high and  they take every dj's they come up with crazy numbers that don't fit us and so as long as we're going to have to do with what we heard from hud it is going to be a problem for us because they're telling us that a four hundred thousand dollar homes affordable and you and i know that many people can barely afford you know the mortgage and the rental that they're paying weight now and the thing that i would like a bone listening when i listen and i'm i'm not that familiar with know how they are but i am with habitat and we know when we have the director standing up here and saying they're talking above mortgages it three hundred dollars a month that's affordable people can afford that we're talking about rentals or mortgage payments that are in a row than in hired it's not affordable so i think the business is here is we as elected officials maybe need to start fighting the battle with hu if people just cannot qualify people and we know that people are working they're working two jobs three jobs at all kinds of stuff but they just cannot make it because the cult of cost of living is so high and somehow we've got to get take a look at it and be realistic about what it costs to live in a place like anywhere now from my soapbox but that's what we're dealing with cheer and that's the problem what is affordable that guidelines about her dad is a challenge for all of us i'd like to know holly what sort of square footage for their lots are they looking at and are the four bedrooms units only part of it is that the only plans they have for the building so i think the into consideration starter start ups you know sometimes you  a binding executed contract and escrow for those these lots the smallest is four thousand nine hundred ninety seven square feet and i have one two three that are in the five thousand range i've got a couple in the four in the six thousand range there is two in the seven thousand and one in the eight thousand and the largest lot is nine thousand seventy seven square feet these lots are not rectangular they're not you know standard lots they follow the street there's a curve to them and so some have very long front pages but are not very deep others don't have a very wide front edge and the where are looking at what kind of the house can fit here and for the the r of p we saw we included the house plants that we have as a draft that we built on the like a pool lot that we had that we recently closed i am taking another look at the houses that we plan to put on these lots the lot was a two story house i'm looking at reducing that to a one story it takes less square footage for hallways staircases things like that i'm trying to get the lot size down i'm trying to get the configuration into more of a rectangle or a box so that every corner is expensive it adds to the cost so we're trying to simplify the houses should bring down the price i'm also in this is me changing the roof line even if we built a two story we would not have a fancy roof line with a number of peaks and valleys every angle adds to the cost so we are looking very hard at the cost to build these houses trying to get it down i'm actually talking to one of the gentleman from spencer holmes to be able to see some of their plans and potentially use those and all those things everything we can do to bring down the cost we will do we realize that when you look at the hud tables and what's the allowable sale prices for the ranges that we're in from eighty to one hundred from one hundred to one hundred twenty percent of am i we have families that have gone through our program they have saved money but they will not qualify at the top of those ranges i have been working on reducing the the house size and the price we've done it three times now internally trying to get that down so we can qualify more people and really we only hit maybe the middle of each of those sections yes school but you're just selling the building the unit itself and then your price range you rates up to about four hundred fifty thousand four hundred to four injured fifty is  career that was on the at the top of the price range on the bigger one at the time that we did this but we're continuing to reduce it we don't want we can't sell it at that price we realize that we're selling at lease hold  for instance the house that we didn't wake of who we had an appraisal on it of almost six hundred thousand we sold that to an income qualified family three hundred sixty thousand and that's what we're trying to do we're trying to get that renewable for another ninety nine years so it goes on for generations and you can leave it to your heirs so in that respect it's a you know you're looking at your grandchildren having the option to renew the lease we charge we also subsidize the ground rent we charge forty five dollars a month there's no other ground lease rent out there like that it's not based on the value of the land which is what you normally have on leasehold it's not based on a rate of return that the homeowner that the landowner expects ours goes up every five years by c p i the first leases that we did were at forty dollars and at the five year mark they went up to forty four dollars and fifty cents these are affordable for people it doesn't add most leaseholds you're paying you know hundreds of dollars in lease rent every month so that's one of the things we do but not holly retains title to the land the house is actually there we recorded deed in the  while those whom are guests on the home not the land they had leases then just sued the land owner and went to court to force the land owner to sell be a lease is this something that can happen on this potential when that law was eventually eliminate eliminated so even in hawaii even on a wahoo less lessee can no longer force the sale of their land so it would take legislative action to have something like that happen we have lots of safeguards in so that no holly the organization cannot sell the land under the houses without the homeowners agreeing to that and that's not something we ever want to do that's that's why it's important for us to continue to be viable as an organization because we really have we think an ethical and a moral obligation to our home owners to be there to retain the land so that they can live in the houses that they buy from us and apologise mineral problem thank you thank you for those questions you  else so they you know for a long time we were called the best kept secret people don't know about us and we're here on maui and people didn't know about us so i'm sure people on the wall who were not aware of a sea ther charter tricks us to the county of maui so we can't really do anything on oahu or in the other islands outside of maui county although we would love to be able to advise and help anyone out of that would like to do chair thank you mr blow for coming up let me ask you when you you don't do any of the loans you work with the banks to get loans yes so are these loans are these are twenty percent down or three percent down or zero percent down what's the all of the above great question and i'm happy to say that now we can do and we have been doing three percent down loans so that's all this required from our clients normally when you do less than twenty percent you have mortgage insurance that you have for but the thing is that because that looks as though the loan to the value of the property for instance that white house the value was close to six hundred thousand we sold it for three hundred sixty thousand that's more than twenty percent so our homes our home owners don't have to pay p m i that mortgage insurance that that was my next question has a huge one yes so so in most cases you don't have your homeowners do p m i none of them do none of them none of them  have and what we do is we work with lenders they are creative they can either replace them with the three percent or sometimes you know with the home program but they actually get them into a conventional loan with the three percent down and on top of that to help our homeowners know holly has a matching grant program they have to have part of the downpayment and the closing costs but if they don't have quite enough and four out of our five homeowners don't then the holly will match that up to ten thousand dollars that becomes a mean on the property for fifteen years if our home owners stay there for more than fifteen years and don't refinance that loan that lien is forgiven so we're doing everything we can to help our homeowners get in ok mr you know i did did  some calculations and a down payment on a four hundred thousand dollar house would be in three percent is twelve thousand dollars and they may provide some of that at a three point five percent interest rate which is kind of the average today you're looking at seven hundred dollars seven hundred forty two dollars in mortgage payment rents for a four bedroom house at at that price or is are going around four thousand dollars so without taxes and certainly without p m i in the taxes if it's a homeowners rate that's going to be extremely low as well you know i think that's very everybody's that looks at the four hundred thousand dollars and says oh my gosh you can afford that but seven hundred dollars for for a four bedroom home is pretty pretty affordable if you had seven thousand eight hundred dollars correct but if you're going to go if you're a family of four and you have to rant at four thousand or three thousand just thirty five hundred i see you that's way below so i understand it's based on the interest  i appreciate what you're doing and the fact that you can bring the house price down even below the four hundred thousand dollars is obviously much better and i understand chair who camas concern about you know why not two bedrooms or three bettors as as a as opposed to four to allow more people but i see that that is a niche that we also need to fill so there's a lot of moving wheels here and so far everything looks above board and if we're if we're truly wanting to do affordable housing this seems to be a good project so it has my support at this interest deductions that's come up over and over on a lot of different years that they've looked at the mortgage deduction if they were to take it away it wouldn't only if affect our clientele it would affect everyone that has some work it it would affect their taxes from of their income taxes right because you'd no longer have that deduction but it doesn't change the fact that they're going to be paying a mortgage for thirty years that at this point is less than half the price of them going out and trying to rent or squeezing into mom and dad and sisters and brothers a place you know  it will impact us all it will have a tax effect but it doesn't affect our need for housing just gets more competitive because your pool gets bigger i would assume it may and it's already pretty big and  you're concerned about the four bedroom houses we do have some families to come in with just you know a couple and in fact our first house was sold to a single person who is a schoolteacher but many of our families come in and they're they're six in their family you know and they're living in a one bedroom condo or even more so we've seen that within the the clients that we have that seems to be so when did you folks come into the picture with this project because i'm looking back at our land use committee and the initial project summary of the and it was only habitat was mention from the very very beginnings of the now you're entity is here to we have always been part of it we are not certain why we were left out of the actual development agreement although i could speculate it's because we're different we're selling leasehold we're not selling fee simple like habitat will with the deep restriction or the developer so we're a little bit different number one and then i believe the other part of that is that while they were finalizing while west maui land was finalizing its development agreement with the county our previous executive director had serious health issues going on in his family and couldn't really participate and any of those negotiations but again this is speculation we were involved in fact we've been under contract with them and in escrow for a number of years so we weren't in there from the very beginning i just don't i will i did can answer that i don't know the answer ok thank you just because if i wasn't if i just picked up the paperwork it be like how did you feel as humans exist because you're not mentioned explain the difference between deed restriction and are you do you folks have deed restrictions or you are considered leasehold and there is a distinct difference the difference is primarily is that we have a ground lease and all of the terms are in the ground lease rather than as a deed restriction so it's a negotiated agreement between the hol as the chair of the tig that's newly created and that my two fellow members that are part of it definitely the term or the word afford a bowl is being really looked at in regards to the guidelines stated stated that's one of our prayer pieces definitely to look at that and redefine what that truly means for the people here and not in other areas and as a stated you know this i thought was going to be an owner habitat you know company collaboration and building and fulfilling these sixty units with their own funds and their lab their funds and what have you and now here they are coming for this monies which i believe wasn't even known to exist back then when this is brought forward and now that it is they're jumping on this opportunity it seems like kind of easy pickings that may fall into that great box category for affordable housing for sure and we all completely agree that that's needed but you know my take is this many i believe to go elsewhere because we brought up some numbers in the v a affordable housing agreement and i don't see it here may not be for finding that but is there a way to get a copy of that put into this com questions that he would like to pose at this time please is there any questions to be fair to mr dotson and habitat for humanity since she is here she has made herself present if there are buyback clause to habitat if they were to sell after twenty years we are the mortgage company so the money is coming back to us and we use that money to build more homes that's like a revolving fund so the funds you're giving us do come back to us and we are going to continue to build more homes with that money so it's not your typical you know in perpetuity the house at one point the the homeowners do have the option of selling  after twenty years i'm our experiences that when there's a death in the family expression because that's what's happened so far the family has arranged for that the house to be kept in the family and deeded down to children for most of these homeowners this is been their dream their entire life and it becomes their especially when you're eighty percent below it becomes your only asset this is your asset to be able to pass on to your children and grandchildren various slots that each entity will be considering for acquisition and i will ask what is to propose housing unit attached to it a lot so you have a sense of what is being proposed to be constructed anything else members misato any other comments at this time from the budget office no thank you thank you there is to remain anything else from your department no thank you thank you so much for i'm hearing this today i think a lot of good questions came out not a good interesting we look forward to the next question keep so as soon as we receive transmit