welcome everyone like to call the august ninth two thousand and seventeen meeting of the planning commission to order president today we have  look forward to some good work being done today so move on to i don't number see public testimony were to take public testimony at this time on any agenda item and please remember to limit your testimony to a maximum of three minutes and if you have not been able to conclude within that three minutes you'll have an additional thirty seconds if you're still not finished with your testimony will allow you to conclude your testimony after everyone else has testified with an additional two please remember that this is not the only time to provide testimony you may also testify on the individual agenda items as they come up and we would ask that if you have a specific agenda item you'd like to testify that you can wait for that agenda item and with that we will open up public testimony is there anyone who would like to testify ok let's move on we're going to close public testimony and move forward to the next agenda item unfinished business number one which is mr william spence planning director transmitting council it is r f c two zero one seven zero zero six for civil lopez is the staff plan or the public hearing was conducted on june fourteenth two thousand and seventeen public testimony was also received at the june twenty eighth two thousand and seventeen and july twenty sixth two thousand and seventeen meetings the matter was deferred by the commission at the june fourteenth june twenty eighth and july twenty sixth two thousand and seventeen meetings the matter was also scheduled to be heard at the commission's july twelfth two thousand and seventeen meeting the planning department received the council resolution on april sixth two thousand and seventeen the hundred twenty day deadline to submit the commission's recommendations to the council is august twenty fourth two thousand and seventeen the commission may take action on the resolution at this time we'd like to open up public testimony on this particular agenda item anyone who would like to testify on council resolution one seventy seven four referring to a planning commission a proposed bill to amend the comprehensive  chair since this has been discussed before more than one can anybody who has provided to the morning party or only come if they're offering up new information then what was previously testified on that's a question for says that any public can testify on any agenda matter but i would agree with commissioner buchanan that we've had this on the agenda for a number of times and we've heard from kind of all of you at least once i believe most of you at least once i want to remind everybody that your testimony is already in the record all of your testimonies are already in the record you may testify again as it is your right but  want to remind you guys that you have testified i believe all the commission members as well as the new commissioner who i believe was present at all the meetings that we discussed as i think everybody understands your focus positions so  you may testify but please remember that we have your record of testimony already in the record it will be reflected in all of the minutes so that's just for your information ok thank you very much broader scope of future because i'm really concerned about how all of this is going to affect the future tax structure i look ahead and i see what's happened over the past few years and i watch my taxes slowly climb and you know i you live in a little haunted or eleven o four in the house next door to yourselves for two and three million dollars right now there you have some tax relief own a home owner exemption things like that but i know from past history that you know government is kind of a self serving monster that needs to feed itself and the way gets revenues from taxes and i it's hard to do a tax analysis that you look down twenty years from now and will my son or my grandchildren be able to pay their property taxes on places like that especially when you look at i look at and those properties here they're stacked up there's two three five six seven multi million dollar properties right in a row that doesn't only change the face of the community it changes the face of the community for many many years to come now i used to know families that lived in the that no longer live there because to do couldn't afford to pay the taxes anymore now i just can't see government given us any relief for helping us there so that is one of my major concerns and also i also believe that  people have been pretty clear about years ago as far as the commercialization of monotony and i can remember when we went through the whole thing about the clover it was i thought it was a done deal and there comes to a point there has to come a point where some somebody has to be rational people have to be rational and really look at this very closely because i can see why so many people are concerned in the fervor because you see a whale of a life changing you see your culture slowly diminishing you go up and now you can't even get to the beach my family up and when i in order to launch their boat they have to drive the konica kite a lot to go back up there so i think we need to really take a very very close look at this thank you support that choice and after reading through both the current and future community plans there's so much written in there that  backs up asking for such a low number or no number and i can read it to you if you want i have it all written down another thing well i support the recommendation to have all short term rentals come through commission and just you know do away with triggers and everything needs to come through commission and we need to be able to comment on everything that's pretty much there was another thing we've heard from numerous testifiers talk about  r concern about how hotel accommodations are affected by the short term rentals it's potentially forty new little hotels one hundred twenty new better rooms so there is going to be an effect and we have the hotel manager who i think is the most qualified to comment in a professional opinion and how that effects the hotel business and i'd really like to hear more from him on you know if you're going to pull against the popular community opinion and against what the community plan says then you  explanation as to why you're ignoring just a russian i rationally reasoning to help us understand your position if it's going to go against the plan my notes are correct then look at my notes from the june twenty eighth meeting and you stated but you were in support of the resolution although you did share your opinion of the seventeen your opinion on this which is what i just you ok thank you yes go ahead thank you thank you very much for as you said diving into the plan and going through it and i would appreciate a copy of your hard work and the areas where you felt which was asked to me by several members of the community as to there was no explanation by commission members who voted against the ordinance and i think that it's fair to this community that they explain why they did make the choices they did so thank you for bringing that up again thank you and the so called author of the resolution that's before us today i want to go back to my earlier testimony as far as in support i am in support of resolution was very reactionary on my part in looking at the the numbers of s t r are quite significant areas especially for whatever is in compliance with the community plan which was the intent for us to get it passed here so that can come back to council work on the amendments that's already there we are moving in motion for appreciate the awareness that this has brought about and a discussion that we're having today and have had yesterday but this isn't respond to the community l thank you thank you any other questions from commissioner ok anyone else like to testify on this particular agenda item i don't have too much to say i just wanted to bring forward something because we're back into our files and i read can you hear me back into our files and   we were kind of upset about our concerns in issues not being addressed properly and appropriately back then and so we kind of like wanted to our own and and so back in the mid ninety's somewhere between the mid ninety's in two thousand you know it was when mordechai planning commission was happening came over they finally listen to us and allowed us to have our own  and so on even back then you know because i say we clearly are not we have these rights and that's what makes us unique we have these rights that only comes from the land tenure that was happening back then which was the more the king owns everything and so he gave us those rights and all that everybody including the government and the subject to the rights of the native tenants which could be which is also the land owners to a coup got a land owner so remember that everything is subject to the rights of the native tenets so we brought this forward and i'm going to make some copies for you folks to make sure i get a two symbol so she can pass it out to you folks but this is what we gave them way back there was traditional land  native responsibility walter i'm sure walter remember this we was he was there at the time was dealing with this when we wanted the t put up there next to the a for agriculture is zoning we wanted a t v for traditional well this is this is what we compiled we called ourselves a hoop walk that didn't and so i guess it is back in ninety five ninety six somewhere around there and this is these are the things he has look for look in your files you'll find  what these are the things that we as quijano landowners and as native tenants and the native host people of the native host culture of these islands this is what we asked ourselves what we wrote down and these are all we put it in a question form for everybody to consider and remember this right here which is us and yet i don't i don't it i don't see you know and but this was given to the council and this should have been in your orientation i see you gave orientation back in april or whatever you know i had a kind  i don't have no no these are thank you but aren't our concerns was was put down in here in a question form to  so that everybody would see how we feel and what we think and what kind of issues and concerns we are questioning when it comes to the planning because that's why you folks are here because we asked for  commission to address these kind of issues you know forget we only one child we only one child or he has child and we're not set up into east west central whatever that kind even though traditionally we have districts we just remember we one child thirty two miles long ten miles wide so anyway i want to get this to you folks you can in maybe enlighten you so you can make some more  or make some informed decisions when it comes to our uniqueness you know and what's different from every other group except for the kanaka molly who has used who has also said that their rights would be impacted you know culturally traditionally you know bab were two miles down the road from the soros development proposal and that's comes under the vacation rental homes and and we're we're go meeting impacted and we already have been for the last ten years because there's illegal still operating and i wish the county would start enforcing thank you mr huckabee ok thank you very much and i'm going to leave a copy of this for you folks with with her comments i have a for full disclosure i have a pending application before you for a short term permit and  while and that's i think scheduled not i think it's a couple of meetings down the road my concern is if it's always it's always difficult to know where to draw a line and my concern i guess is if we went to zero as i heard some people say that directly impacts me because i purchased property and why a little about five years ago  knowing at the time vacation rentals were what was my next door neighbors on either side of me and on either side of either side of me and that it had historically been a community that had been vacation rentals and so  i purchased property believing in the law at the time allowed that that i would be able to to build and do a vacation rental there at some point in the future subsequently i purchased the house next door to me which was a functional vacation for over a decade since it was built the original owners built it to be a vacation rental short term rental i guess i should say more precisely i purchased the property knowing that that's what it was and so i guess my concern is and i took out loan i pay check every month to pay a loan and so changing the rules in the middle of the game for people that have already made the investment people already made the decision of i want to be part of this community i want to spend money to buy property in this community changing the rules in the middle of the game is sort of inherently on fair and so so my concern is in terms of whatever number you decide that is to be imposed you should give some consideration of the people who have already what the rules were what the law was when people made their decisions now may be that in the future you choose to do something different but i would i would ask that you consider that the people that have already made their decision to to purchase property changing the law on them and changing the rules in the middle of the game  is is not to be in other words and then to follow up i guess on her point of if you want to zero please don't but if you decided to do that then you have a situation where i've got a neighbor you know then why lieu of that have had vacation rentals for a decade for over a decade and and pulling the you know saying that they can have one white why can they have one  can't you know there's a unfairness there to say i mean literally my property line is contiguous with with people that would have had vacated rentals on the other side of them the vacation on the other side of them and frankly there's been no problem in our community i don't want to step into someone else's community or other issues i know there are different people that have different views but at least in our community and while lula there hasn't been a historical problem and  there are currently fewer vacation rental homes and why lou then there were two or three years ago and so it wasn't a problem a year or two ago with the number there and so at least as to our community why lou my request would be that you allow me to have the same rights as my neighbor that we'd be equal in that fashion and please give some consideration to people like myself who a mortgage have invested money and and not being able to do what has historically been done for the last decade my home would be unfair to me and so i don't want to step on other people's views about other communities and things but at least as  that would be my my requests great thank you very much mr gibbons any questions for mr gibbons i have a question i'm thinking i'm sorry i didn't get your name in the beginning john or the district that the talking thank you for letting me know that that that you did purchase knowing that in the future you made me have an option of having a vacation rental so do you have one home or two  homes i purchased an empty lot on which i was going to build a house and and my plan was because i can't occupy all the time i represent a whole bunch of farmers in the midwest i have to go to work for them so my plan was to build a home on that and it would be built for my use as well as for vacation rental instead of building that home now the next door neighbor house came available and so i purchased that so i have i have one one home at that time did you realize that the zoning was not conducive appropriate for that use for vacation rentals are certainly nothing in the purchase documents or title insurance or anything that said there was any sort of his zoning violation or anything and i'm not as i stand here today i'm not aware of one what i knew was every single house next to me and on either side of me and while it was vacation rentals and had always been there was a period of time i think were some of them didn't have permits and the county got serious about enforcing permits three five years ago and so at that point i think it was two thousand and thirteen or fourteen most of all of those houses along there got permits from the county to be vacation rentals the perch at the per the home i purchased with under the old system i think they had gone to the state years ago and applied for a permit and then the when they applied to the county in that system for five years ago and got a permit and so the home i purchased had been for a decade a legal vacation rental and they had tried to comply with the laws and so so as far as i could tell or anything it was a perfectly you know everyone in the neighborhood did it  it didn't have owning a property between vacation rentals i didn't see a negative impact on me and my situation and so that that was that was sort o have a question then so i don't know if you're aware of what has transpired on other islands that have developed this preponderance of alternative use is that we're not consistent with the zoning in those areas where a lot of people move because of higher taxes from alternative rentals they went to resort zoning how do you feel about resort zoning if that was to change in your district from a practical state tax standpoint we already have that there is a separate taxation rate in the county for short term rental properties and so i already pay a higher property taxes than a neighbor with the same property value that doesn't choose to vacation or short term with it and so there's already from a tax standpoint that's already happening changing the zoning the the devil's in the details you know i'd have to see my my properties and i think all the properties out in while they w zoned agriculture i'm trying to grow bananas in pajamas and all that you know agricultural stuff i can in those tiny lots but in terms of the zoning change i don't know from a tax standpoint we're already there so i don't know if an official zoning change would make that much more of a difference although maybe it would put people on notice of hey this these specific places are vacation all that anybody that buys my loo i mean the lots are forty foot wide anybody that buys out there knows their vacation because across the street and such  you how long you spend on it it varies greatly because my work takes me to represent farmers in the in the on average probably four or five months and do you mind if i ask you if there were negative impacts to you what type of impacts those would be there's always the issue of maybe somebody doesn't comply with the house rule and stays up late makes little bit of noise or something but that's you know even if the house is in a vacation rental you may have a neighbor who decides to have a party late one night and so there's there's always that possible type of as we're all we're almost like oh you know we're just so close and so tiny lots so i do spend much time talking with them there's no there have been police called out for you know any sort of issues that would need nine one one involvement there haven't been any sort of impacts in terms of you know you might occasionally have somebody that makes a little bit of noise or something but as neighbors trying to be good neighbors do that one of the concerns i have about like a cap of fifteen or twenty whatever it is you're potentially thinking about for numbers is that issue of will you turn neighbors on neighbors will will you know right now if my neighbors  noise i'll talk with them we'll solve it we'll work through it together we'll cooperate as neighbors should if if suddenly my objecting to their permit gets their permit killed then that makes a permit available for me so you have the potential of having neighbors instead of being neighborly acting unneighborly if you let some do and not others ok so it's basically for you negative impacts from hearing correctly would be noisy neighborly disputes based on permit do you mind if i ask you have you have any experience in cultural practices as far as gathering access to  leave i just like look at the pretty fish i tend to think that i should leave the fish for others that may need them more than i do and so so so my person personally my involvement is in  seen i mean i'm i'm there all the time i see people going out and fishing and i i haven't seen any vacation rental staying in my neighbors properties who have gone out and tried to impede ok that activity i think you and i would and i'd be the first person of stop them from doing that thank you thank you thank you very much any other questions were for john ok seeing none thank you all right to let you know a short story really fast i come from the island of key west florida i saw within twenty years three quarters of the islanders having to move off an island up to the middle of the state of florida in ocala where there's not a breeze these people were forced to move off because taxes guy rocketed insurances skyrocketed neighbors with each other because short term rentals the short term rentals are not controlled with him out in the midwest or anybody else out wherever you've got an agent that rents them out and believe me they get advertise more than on the hawaiian islands next thing you know you've got a group coming in and gee  family's going to come visit next week and their friends and you're out of control and you get the spring breakers you think twenty kids can't rent that house for three months yes they can you think your cops are going to be busy yes they will be your taxes will skyrocket you will kill this island is bad enough seen what it is now you want to start a lottery system allows so many to come into the hotels motels allow them to come in choose their name they can come now get back in line control your tourist if you do not deal take over for instance i went into a little store over here and i won't name the name i was looking for certain protein drink and i looked at a bag of coca my god forty dollars something i just bought it must sakis the same thing five dollars in one cent with these people catering to only the wealthy are they planning for the only the wealthy to come into key west or yeah they've already got their prices set high purchased a home in key west for seventy two thousand dollars one years time that house was worth two hundred thousand dollars could i afford my taxes no because now one year later my house is worth almost four hundred thousand why because people were buying turn my at shaq's when invaded them to the max all you heard for the next twenty years were hammers and solves going and real estate prices skyrocketing you know who's on q s now been vacationing and live in not the rich the wealthy moved in and made the ri look poor who's working god only knows do they hire local people for jobs no they import people don't let it happen here do not let it happen here i beg you you have the most pristine island and the pacific ocean probably don't allow greed and money and investors to come in here and rulin your island amen thank you for your requests for any questions for the testif justifiably my name is walter reed from this is been a sore spot for many of us are people coming here and trying to make money out of living in a house plan represents where this community is that right now so for us to start making these spot zoning kind stuff that we're doing right now makes no sense we should wait until the draft plan is  before we make decisions on these things from now on to then it should be no activities the only activity should be going on is for all of us to stop pointing out who start turning in these illegal guys and this group needs to put a stop on everything until our draft plan is okayed it's so simple we already made a draft plan it represents the community we spen many many many many hours in this draft land and just to push it on the side and make spot zoning kind this is right now makes no sense absolutely no sense so i encourage you guys to please and one of the members of we do not accept the cap hi my name is in a place on this subject seven hundred seventy four i must have spoke about ten times maybe more guys had enough of me anyway i want to say that in the beginning of the year a few of us from the community met with stacy and it's only because i have been to a lot of meetings and a lot of commission and some of the commissions are not here and i have something that i had to look up because a friend called me this morning and july sixteenth we had a meeting and it has a call that i had has something that i said about capital and the reason why we wanted cap in capping because we wanted to start somewhere and to those of you who want zero one i fully understand especially on the east end but we had to start some police there were meetings and they were no no people present and so i have to find it i was trying to hurry up and look for it but they quit it said because they were after the lead legalisation of shot term rentals in two thousand and twelve county planners say is things are going well with nine permitted properties on molokai since then but planners are still seeking to improve the laws and govern them but they've done nothing and then the the commission had asked them to do some research and there was no reply to that and this is in two thousand and twelve and it goes on and on and they even made that but one of the comments was that it was good the way it was because there wasn't too many people at the meeting so we've i've been to the meeting and i stand alone and i come before and some of you know that because you've seen me and i speak about capping capping whether it's zero whether it's one and i reached out to stacy and she was there in a matter of time i know you don't agree with it but we need to put a cap some time and we have to change it and i have stacy's word that she would amend it later on down the line she had said this and she said it publicly too and i don't want to throw her under the bus throwing her under the bus is like throwing me under the bus to thank you ok thank you anybody else like to testify how are we being socially impacted is our culture is our values our people not just our sites how are we being socially impacted on the east end  like i said we're not special anymore i live within a two mile radius my land taxes have already gone up every time lands are sold two miles both ways that's the county called county ordinances i deal with the tax office all the time return from our yesterday from from the tax office department of finance so again you guys are affecting our families it's really important whether in w two miles both ways whether you in to call two miles both ways so when we join seventeen dash seventy four that was very important the other thing is every member of who i know i takes care of a burial ground less than one mile from where this proposed short term rental it is nine acres and it is owned by the county of maui we look forward to continuing our our works and our efforts we have been documenting it and every member is unique who i know man i is currently taking care of the county's lands and dealing with poachers dealing with the hardships we put up things that get taken down things you guys know nothing about we deal with hunters all the time we are very unique every man woman child i really feel this is very difficult for you folks who think that you can decide who has standing and who doesn't our constitutional rights allow us every man woman and child that standing there's not much more i feel that i should really say because i'm not going to allow a fishing expedition no fishing expeditions or go away to our legal counsel comes when we get a chance to talk to him and we'll find out how we continue to proceed here as i shared with you folks before it is important and we are at the enforcement level and i am less than a mile away from the proposed site aloha you folks tha right now for the ease let's say for it is you have nine or five or seven whatever it is i wanted to stop there and the me and mr mr gibbs to see all the short term rentals coming and you know she always molly in these these outsiders come in enjoy what is rightfully all of ours to enjoy but it's ours because we we was the outside of the fifteen it sounded like right saw and he's already asking you guys how can you go about getting one after you guys kept this thing so it doesn't sound too good you know what you guys doing how you guys doing it cap at this disease resolution i cannot support that because i'm at zero so i can't really support the number fifty kids so thank you am in support of a cap i but i cannot support this resolution as i stated the last time i testified but i am concerned that you you  all will vote in favor of favorable recommendation to the council and you know that this this process is pretty convoluted you know participating in government is not an easy task and you know it came from council to the commission for a recommendation it's going to go back to the council committee for discussion and at that time the community the community members can continue to to give their input and their feedback and their comments on how they feel about this resolution and then it will go to the full council and at that time we again the community members can continue to participate and voice their concerns if this resolution makes it that far and i wanted to make sure that it was on record that a lot of people who do support this resolution what they're really saying is they support a cap they don't necessarily support the forty as the number so i guess i have a small request  if the trend has been you know we come up and we oppose something and you guys all vote in favor of it so if you will submit a favorable recommendation to the co a question that maybe mr pelly could ask bring him back and ask him later because it's kind of paramount to what we're all going through today you know is we've got runaway inflation and property prices and taxes and all those things that we're going to be faced with and the only way you're going to stop that is that if people can't see the dollar there and then you know i'm that's not i'm not against a free enterprise i mean i made my living for the last twenty years servicing you know all the houses on the west end and i mean it's it's been very fruitful for me but there comes to a point where you look at archie young children i would rather see my my nephew buy that property and build a family build this home for his family there but that's not possible so that's the main thing maybe someone should ask that question that's oh i'm sorry if i was out of line thank you thank you very much any questions for for editor ok tried my name is you guys know me by tina thompson i just wanted to provide my support for the cap and i think a lot of you don't really understand you know we need we don't know what the number would be that you guys would walk and so our number had to be plugged in and we kind of based upon applications i was permitted and pending applications that's where the numbers came about now we know i don't want fifteen on the east i'd like zero also and you know it can be done this propose that's going to do deliberations and that's when the numbers can be amended there's no problem with him and it because it's we're doing what the community wants ok now you have a permit to carry in but you can't have one if that's not how it works but anyway if anything's possible we do what you folks want discussion on this matter then we can ask questions of the hawks so if you want to bring that if you want to ask raise a question at a time when you can thank you go ahead and be a part of me for interrupting  hey we gotta do something we've got to start somewhere you know this just of most we ever got out of explanation so we have to have a cap to start something going or pl the smaller each growing and he's growing all because people don't care people don't care miami is the king of that that was the root of all evil see when you have money you take the lot for the money because he keeps saying continue and you get to be contented with what you got but not everybody comes here anymore that has this feeling they have the feeling of making was not raised here i don't know the life the only read too much books but we other walk in life we need to let it known that we are out god man we are so blessed because we have god and this will be kind to remember me our corral i tell a lot of all of the other problems here he came to bless us not to curse and he's a curse are really slow he pull because i lean you slow so it takes time for us to a job all those big words talk down to us like we can talk to each other so we can all the big words and i really am happy that i got to hear it that's why i came back up here because i already said i was not i'll pose a short term that's why we get workers in the hotel workers i do support this resolution and the reason why i support is because we do need a cap however i want to state for the record that i want to eventually for the council goes back to the city council that we need to put an amendment in there and it's not unreasonable i think that there's nothing that existing right now from the nice side i think we can keep it at that point and the reason why i'm saying that is because there's so many illegals out there we don't even know i mean before they have no idea what the number is on the illegals it just seems like it's the wild wild west the more permits that come in the more illegals go up every permit that comes in people feel compelled enough and safe enough to go ahead and do an illegal so i think based on that information a cap is definitely needed i do i do commend she we can we organize this meeting she stepped forward she you know she's attempting to address the issue in the best way that she can and for that i commend her and i get ready i flew over from honolulu this morning i can easily fly tomorrow we as soon as this issue comes forward before the council but i just want to state for the record that i do support the resolution with an amended amendment stating that we should keep it at the existing number and good afternoon my name is lee this i wasn't quite sure because i didn't have anything really written down when i gave my testimony the last time so i just wanted to one thing i wanted to say  that i know it seems like people on the island don't care but they really do they just don't know the process you know a lot of the people don't know the process like me it took me a while to come here and speak in front of a mike and look at people that can be making decisions it's really nerve wracking for a lot of us who are not good at this people do care and another thing is it's held again during the day when everybody is working so like i'm lucky just started i'm a substitute teacher so i'm not working today so i can come here but on the norm i wouldn't be able to make it otherwise so it would be more beneficial to those who is in our community that are learning the process to come here and to be able to voice their concerns in the evening when they are finished or at work and they can come here and talk  sold a bill of goods basically just like in the old west when they would sell the snake oil and make it sound like it was going to solve the world's problem and so they built it and instead of looking further as to  how the effects would be in the place that they are investing in they jump right into the pool and they accept what promotion came their way to make money and i understand we all want to make money  but not when it comes to affecting other people in a negative way and so i just wanted to say that basically i do support a cap i to these guys just a question so i'll just put the question out there little bit confused about this kept business it's ok to have a cap with the number forty scaring everybody that leaves under politics stacey is going to try her best to bring the number down but when you get into the politics of you're not quite sure where that number is going to go just to get to the number forty to do some politicking just to get to that number so that's a high number to start off with so i wanted to know if this body has the power to defer besides for you guys to defer any more and being because we need to wait for the community plan to be on ratify it so that's the question if that's the case that we don't need to do what she's doing we can just defer a level this is where the rubber meets the road everybody has to come here and if you guys could give for those things and do we have a number from our community plan that would make it much clearer about whether we should gamble with the fourth the number forty and the politics that comes with that  public but i ask you to sort of those questions to see how we can be again it comes back to council politics the politics is the you know i presented this result to the council there was no question about if that's what we got to do for now and in fact there were comments that we should be following where moral a question there's a question asked and i thought i should tell you what let's wait for that question to be asked during the discussion that would be really helpful so anyone who has not testified previously would like to testify please come forward under restrictions and pandered for county ordinances it says that the county shall be restricted in approving the number of permits for short term rental homes as distributive per the following community plan and areas as further restricted by the applicable community plants or why are we still making decisions on short term rannells where there isn't revise our final updated community plan if you guys make a decision wouldn't wouldn't that be based on the two thousand and one if you go with were to me that this is in today and i'm not sure what it says on the short term reynolds or if there's anything included in would come today but she didn't but i wanted to share a couple of things that she shared with me and she can validate it she gave me permission to share she lived in my little belly for i want to say that maybe thirty years maybe more raise her children there when we went to school with them and she recently got into an altercation or confrontation with somebody staying in a vacation rental they had been walking up into the valley every day to check up pronto they said in the ripper and she had seen this going on for like a while so she finally confronted them and he got a little aggressive with her in the way he was talking to her and she was trying to explain to him that not even local people have been taking recently because the population is dwindling and they're trying to restore it and he just i don't he was just really rude to her about it and gave her a hard time and eventually she ended up taking his problems the way and trying to set them free but they died but how did he like the idea of going prying it's probably because the owner does it and they have a pronk up and so that's how he started doing it and then another thing is that with a different vacation rental owner they're like we people and so they will send the renters up into the valley because her neighbor sells weed to go buy weed from them and i can tell you the names of the owners if you want and she told me i can share that too if you want to ask me to tell you and then another thing i just wanted to share a quote from the most recent update of the some policy statement and the two thousand and one policy statement it's just a couple sentences page eleven says of the most recent update says discourage tourist related accommodations or businesses which will subsequently change the social infrastructure of the area and the two thousand and one plan says page number ten for a permanent moratorium against the development of tourist related accommodations or sunanda we're going to close public testimony on this particular item ok at this time we're into the discussion here so i think ok part of me at the request of a commissioner we're going to take a short five minute break so please everyone return five minutes the meeting is in recess for five minutes thank you ok would like to call the august ninth meeting of the motor planning commission back to order so one agenda item the one unfinished business and so some some discussion about this amongst the commissioners think there's a few avenues that we can take knowing that this is just a recommendation and we've heard from numerous people and including council member crew fellow yes lori if you have something proposed bill your recommendation will be sent to counsel a me send it down to the planning committee for vetting and i'm sure you know at the planning committee this will be in front of them they'll be opportunity for the public to call in to testify publicly about this and then the committee will vet and they could recommend to council for adoption they can recommend not  not adoption or they can change the numbers at that time if they heard enough input from this planning commission as well as from the community like i said you can call into the planning committee i mean whatever committee this for adoption of whatever however this bill ends up to be and again the committee for the community will have an opportunity to testify publicly and again probably want to see regard to that so today the commission can discuss this proposed a bill you can recommend to the council adoption recommend that you do not want to adopt or if you have changes that you want to make to this proposed bill you can recommend whatever changes you want so there's different things that you can do today it is a recommendation to the council it is not the final like i said the council has the final vote on this whether it will make it into the county court or not yours is just a recommendation and you can be free to recommend how you see fit whether you want the as if each commissioner gave their recommendations or we could come up to a consensus on those numbers or we could do it another way it's completely up to the commission ok concert chair then i would have to state my opposition for that format i would recap on the resolution seven hundred seventy four so the planning department received the council resolution on april sixth twenty seventeen the one hundred twenty deadline to submit the commission's recommendation to the council is august twenty four twenty seventeen today the commission may take action on the resolution as currently there are on the island a total of seventeen permeated short term rent six five in regards to short term rentals there is no cap for the island of moral code the proposed seven hundred seventy four recommends that the more have a cap of forty provided that he has fifteen currently on the east side of moral code they are a total of eight pending permits that the department has of as of today and central there is a total of seven permeated short term rentals and there are normal pending permit applications in the central district and on the west side of you got a total of four permeated short term rentals and you got three pending applications which you are going to see two of them today as far as the community plan update as it also states that courtney the council shall review the community plan short term rental home assured chin's when the number of approved short term rental homes exceeds ninety percent of the restriction number short term rental homes operating with a conditional permit pursuant to chapter nineteen point four zero of this title that meets the criteria of this section shall be included in the number of the short term rental homes permitted pursuant to this subsection that is being proposed thank you thank you very much thank you sir can you tell me do you know if you have the information of the pending east and permits of khomeini will be triggered to be heard by the council sure in your agenda packet that you have it's actually listed in europe and the seas and so i can tell you on a pending i can go backwards because so appendix on page five out of the five you have the eight pending right now to get those so let me ask so i get the question you ask you so you want to know what are the triggers that will be sent to the commission like know why it's ok is that open pending cases not necessarily for this commission to no know absolutely ok so all of the eight are there any triggers that would bring it before in this body yes so the triggers include that if there are more than three permit a short term rentals within the five hundred feet that's one trigger and one i mean of the rest so actually there's three there's three so one would be the other permitted to would be if there's no more than one permit no input into the other pending permits of eight i can tell you right now one two  three no i just think it's important that the community understand that of the seven or eight that are out there we're only going to hear three of them here so five of them are go approved the plan in level so i just want them to understand that i know what they want us to do but we don't always unless commissioner b can and so just in that all of them come here currently the not  going to come in front of us so peter paul i was in this building a few meetings ago and he asked for transparency so i just want to try to be transparent to let the community know that five of those applications will not come before this body and they so that you could have fourteen and use my i mean sorry twelve before anybody knows it we're going to try to so to be clear is it three that could be administrative were proved or five that could be administratively approved well it's still under review so actually that you see five because they're all right next to each other permits they may not trigger short term rentals but you will see them as a state special use permit ok thank you approve of the resolution number seventeen seven four that was transmitted to us in april of twenty seven thousand by the county clerk and if you look at your resolution hopefully we all have copies my motion is to approve the resolution with the following amendment on page five item number seven where the new underline language is inserted on number seven after instead of the number being forty the number would be zero and the rest of the items following that would be good that would be  i i i i would be stricken that is my motion ok so there's a motion on the and all items underlined after that be stricken is there a second to that motion july twenty sixth i believe there has been testimony and the materials are ready presented to the commission i just want to confirm with me that he has been present at all of those meetings and have received a review of all the materials that that were provided to the commissioners at that meeting confusion with the community i'm sorry chair has come in on approving not approving so the motion is to approve of the resolution ok so i wanted to thank consul woman for being proactive and seeing an issue and jumping in quickly to rectify a situation that was unfolding before this community and that situation has occurred u nbeknownst to us because of administrative permitting and because back in two thousand and twelve laws had passed that we are now aware of and i'm assuming from that perspective due by testifying yours and others it is definitely true it is in black and white it is stated in the current existing ten as well as the draft impending  well throughout the community plan and outside of the community plan there are dozens and dozens of inferences to address this type of development being morning give them positive in areas that are not appropriately zoned for commercial use so that is the reason why approving the resolution with the cap being zero and i would like to work up a sit what everybody is testifying to from starting here approving at forty and then hopefully getting down to zero and and i would suggest that we started and then we work up i think that is more conducive in makes more sense and it's in line with the law and so i think anything less than that goes against the  law environmental laws there was no culture in fact studies done there were no health impacts studies done there was no environmental review of what the adverse impacts by changing an ordinance would do discussion by a of the commissioners well there is no further discussion that will call for the question all in favor of the motion to approve the resolution with a member to remove the item two through the number forty  strike the rest of the underlined i don't care yes i believe in prayer meetings the chair recused himself from this i have not really sure if there were other rico for voting please raise your right hand and hold it up there five affirmative and that's enough to get us into executive session so the motion go public knows we're going to go into his executive session which is a confidential conversation and it could explain what we're going to the public being disrupted i would suggest that we exit to the conference room am going to recuse myself from voting on this particular matter meet me to discussion inside the inside there thank you ok thank you very much so we were in the middle of a motion there's a motion on the floor to approve resolution seven hundred seventy four and amended it on page five to remove the number forty after the word more guy on line seven and place zero and strike all other underline items following the motion was made by the would be cannon seconded by law ok poor poor we've had some discussion and is there any further discussion commissioners with regard to the june fourteenth june twenty eighth and i believe it was july twenty sixth meeting that you have all reviewed all of the material heard all the testimony whether you read it or present is there anyone who did not review the materials or present or reviewed public testimony thank so all in favor of the motion please raise your right hand we have one or two three four and five the motion passes and our next letter r that number seven the number zero thank you thank you very much so  we have it our next agenda items are continued public hearings but we have an unfinished business item number and it's been requested by one individual who has submitted a request to began on june fourteenth two thousand and seventeen and was closed on june twenty eighth two thousand and seventeen the matter was into further the aug ninth two thousand and seventeen meeting this application has been brought for review to the planning commission because there are at zero seven zero three four by letter dated july third two thousand and seventeen and received by the planning department on july fifth two thousand and seventeen number two william b cannon by letter dated july third two thousand and seventeen and received by the planning department on july fifth two thousand and seventeen number three point boy by letter dated july third two thousand and seventeen and received by the planning department on july fifth two thousand and seventeen number four by letter dated july third two thousand and seventeen and received by the plain department on july fifth two thousand and seventeen who we leaders by letter dated july twelfth two thousand and seventeen and received by the planning department on july twenty may take action on the above requests each request shall be reviewed pursuant to sub chapter three intervention and contest of cases of the commission's rules or practice in procedure if one or more of the intervention requests are granted the commission may select hearings body or hearings officer if the petitions to intervene are denied then the commission may act on the subject application so i'd like to open up public testimony on this particular item remember as  stated before if you've testified on this item in the past we do have all your testimony we have received it and it is all in the record if you have something additional to add we would ask that you please come forward and testify please limit your testimony to three minutes if you don't conclude your testimony within three minutes will be given an additional thirty seconds to conclude if you still haven't finished you'll be given an additional two minutes after everyone has concluded their testimony with that will open it up for public testimony on this particular item nineteen point sixty five point zero three zero all of it and and number for community input you know u nder that and it's it's faith about facts or reasons that you can disapprove and i tended a few walk to meetings when this short term runa was brought up already and early see their community input is really in opposition of it so i just wanted to  make mention to the commissioners that it's ok to deny the application to allow the law allows you to deny it you know i just wanted to point that out to you and you i don't am withdrawing my intervention ok and your question thank you very much thompson we will be addressing your request for intervention a little bit later after public testimony  thank you next testify or on the side of all in favor please raise your right hand one two three four five in the affirmative recuse myself from voting so the motion passed we would now go into executive session so just a courtesy to the twenty so just kind of giving you a courtesy letting you know we might be ok would like to call the august night meeting of the planning commission back to order you know executive session we discussed a number of a number of items relating to the petitions to intervene and you know appreciate everyone taking the time to be here today that the intervenors and the commission feels that on the face of all the applications and we're talking about all the applications together all of the applications are deficient in one way or another that may cause them if they were seem today on their face to be denied that along with the lack of notice to the petitioners that they were on this agenda item what the commission has decided to do is to defer this item and allow all the petitioners to provide amended or supplemental petitions with a deadline of tuesday august twenty ninth we also set the hearing date for this on the september twenty seventh two thousand and seventeen agenda so just so everybody can write that down and the deadline for filing your amended and supplemental petitions would be tuesday august twenty ninth and the hearing on whether or not to grant the petitions to intervene will be scheduled for them ok planning commission meeting of september twenty seventh two thousand and seventeen and the rules for intervention intervention in contested cases can be found on subchapter three and also they must comply with twelve three zero one sixteen we have copies of those up here for any the petitioners who would like to come up and get that oh ok civil civil thank you civil like a civil gave you that so make sure that your amended and supplemental petitions comply with all of the provisions found in the so chapter three rules that were just handed use of chapter three and four and five of the i'm sorry part of me only subchapter three so based upon that we would entertain a motion to defer and have a hearing on september twenty seventh two thousand and seventeen with a deadline for filing amended and or supplemental petitions by tuesday august twenty ninth so moved  ok so basically the commission did review all of the petitions to intervene the request to intervene and the commission finds that they are all deficient in one way or another that they don't comply twelve three zero one sixteen that was also handed out to you and as well as twelve zero one seventeen service so the commission is providing potential intervenors additional time to supplement their filing their original filing to allow you folks time to address all of the requirements required of intervenors pursuant to subchapter three ok so right now the  commission feels that the petitions are deficient and it's giving the potential intervenors more time to provide the additional information as required subtopic or three so the commission has given you folks a deadline of august twenty ninth two thousand and seventeen to provide that additional information all the requirements and subchapter three seventeen and also has to be served upon the application and i'm not sure about the service on the original filing but that also has to be starved on the application the original filing everything that will commit to the planning commission you're talking about the this is what happened from that last time right on the twenty eighth of june twenty fifth it was you guys said that and this is for you to civil you guys basically told us that we're going to have a contested case at supposedly on this the account is some kind of hearing or some kind of follow up from that time to last wednesday there was a mole official communication from your office or from you civil nothing the these photos intervenors had nothing nothing nothing nothing i don't appreciate this i flew from honolulu to come here what i submitted to you guys last well last friday is very different from what i have written only testimony so i just want to be clear here to day that you offer us the policy about terrorism why isn't it in the report in the show's permit this not even there why not you know what i'm saying so i just wanted to be out there you know i'm sitting here very frustrated you guys took about almost an hour an executive session i don't appreciate it i don't think we should stand for it as well but i just wanted to make this statement that give us the same respect that you give these foreigners who come here and think they can come here and get a permit and make money off of stuff that is sacred to us miss the point so what we're doing is giving an opportunity to be able to come in with full notice and address the deficiencies that are on the petitions to intervene seventeen i have a quick question you said the op locations were deficient in one way or another so i was wondering if by any way you could let us know what we have our individual applications were deficient because maybe some of us weren't deficient in all the ways on there you know we did we did discuss that and we are unable to give legal advice and so you need to consult someone to advise you on how to that's correct so we have to redo them even though some parts it just takes a lot of time and effort to do all this stuff so it's really frustrating that you can tell us it's wrong but you can't tell us why it's wrong what part it's because we're not able to  we're not able to advise it's outside of the school board and we could be liable if we gave legal advice so that's why we cannot thank you that's going to really look into this and i guess we're going to hold everyone accountable for ok so thank you thank you boehner thank you very much ok so we have a motion to do for do we have a motion get john made a motion right michael drew second to the motion right so we're no discussion is there any further discussion go ahead generally allowed to answer some of the or can we can we direct them to guess the purpose on moving this to another date was because the commission felt that the application or the petitions on its face were deficient and it's likely that each would be denied today so the commission is giving the applicants the intervenors the potential intervenors more time to provide the information that's required under the rules under the rules that you're going to be looking at when determining interventions that is so this is an however in addressing commissioner buchanan if any potential intervene or want to proceed today even though the commission wants to give you time to supplement your pleading if you want to proceed today and you don't want extra time to supplement your police proceedings pleadings you may inform the commission that you want to proceed on your intervention today and the commission can decide that knowing that we feel there may be supplemental things that they could improve on or or be helping the case if they don't want to defer and come back in if they wan proceed i think they have every right to do that if the state to the commission if you could come up i would appreciate your own  unprofessional and this is something i want to see this because this isn't you paul well i understand where you're coming from but you are just to sit here and to wait for you guys for all over an hour to come out of the executive session to be we've been patient long enough you know there was no no communication whatsoever for like over two months all of us and i get an e mail from not from civil from tina who gets it i don't want she got it from to answer these questions from you sir we got the questions matter how you talk down to people you need to change it up here this is this is where this is why isn't talk like that to each other so i just i don't know i think it's just annoying this whole thing but back to the point i think that my brothers and sisters over here tino who are all the intervenors we haven't really had a chance to really come together and look at something collectively that we can do because i know there's issues about us being very specific and how we proce ed with this thing i do have stuff on me that when i talk to these guys today that we're actually covering the same issues so i think for that matter i will confer and i will follow the timing that you guys laid out but please please communicate with us yeah i'm sorry shane i'm sorry you had to go through you feel frustrated i'm the one who made the motion to allow the deferral so you guys could present my case and perhaps it was my mistake that i'm asking you you thought we we're that as a commissioner but i did make the motion to give you guys the time i appreciate to do that but i just think that the biggest part is a just know that this is about due process and really it lies with you guys to process lies with you not with us the fact that we had no communication you're in violation even before we stepped into this room so just you know and it's only making it like it's our fault you know we don't we don't we can't want to forward to go build a three million dollars two million dollar house that lui builds in you know we're not the guys ok i just want to address that basically the commission is not responsible for advising you on how to file petitions and neither am i i am the i'm the commission's attorney if you need legal advice i suggest you hire so we have a motion on the floor is there any further discussion from the commissioner ok all in favor of the motion to defer or the timelines as stated in the motion raise your right have one to three four five in favor  i recuse from voting on this matter motion passes so we will defer this item until september twenty eighth with a filing deadline of august twenty ninth i'm sorry september twenty seventh this is the hearing august twenty ninth is the next item that we have on the agenda are item he continued public hearings for two items number one miss pamela the continued public hearing on these two items and ask anyone who would like to provide public testimony on a public hearing on these items to come forward and provide testimony we the public hearing on both items because they're both under the agenda they started at the same public hearing and then we'll address each item individually yes so i a parcel thirty five in the lens and if you're familiar with the west side this property is situated right next to the public beach located on the and so the reason why it's in front of you to be is that it is in the agricultural state district and in order to operate a short term rental home on the agriculture district they would have to come in for a special use  land use commission and special permit thank you thank you very much like we do you want to come up and talk to us about this one please while the week is coming i have one question for sibyl sibyl the only reason why we're having it is because  case so just to be clear we're here for the state land use commission special use permit for the ok thank you very much so any discussion here commissioner ok just to restate my previous disclosure i would like to disclose disclose a potential conflict of interest therefore i will be recusing myself for voting on this matter if there are no went no further questions for the for the applicant or staff to entertain a motion on this should state ladies commission a special use permit i think part of me before that simple could you give us the recommendation on subject to the extension by the mollycoddle you planning director upon a time the request for extension filed at least one hundred twenty days prior to its expiration so the june thirtieth would be requested to change to august thirty first of twenty twenty and the rest of the standard is two three four five and six that be advise that compliance with colds covenants and restrictions on ars of any applicable homeowners are apartment owners association is a sole responsibility of the applicant commission the planning departments report and recommendation people cared for and the june twenty before today's meeting aug ninth the meeting as the findings of conclusions of law and decisions in order and lands for less than fifteen acres on less and you see a lot of people coming in asking to do projects or development that is not consistent with the plans this happens to be one of them because there was a preponderance of gentlemen  because of that they got tax incentives and tax breaks and that was not to turn around and commercialize short term rentals it was to incentiv development period there's been a number of arguments back and forth about what is a development and i think we've come to the decision that says the land associated with the soil associated with the land is not primarily land and i don't know do you have information that shows that this parcel is designated as important of political and other scientific arguments for again with the same argument that we had a fall short to rentals in general we're talking about all commercial uses in areas that are not appropriate least zoned for that period if people want areas on more to be resort areas need to be rezoned otherwise we are sparked spot zoning and we are doing arbitrary zoning prior to the conclusion of another draft plan which were before we had were handed this permit because they all think that there's a number of recommendations and considerations that you have to respond to or you have to nor before you start heading special use permit in and reasonable use to a special use print so i would direct the commission to the lange commission regarding special permits subchapter twelve it was in front of you this morning as i hand out in case you guys didn't bring your binders rolls subsection c the certain unusual and reasonable uses within agriculture and rural districts other than those for which the district is classified may be permitted the following guidelines are stablish in determining in unusual five that application does not meet and that could be a basis for your motion to deny but i would ask that the commission put these things on the record because again if there is a denial of the permit we will have to under special permit hawaii by statute saw in the report it's there for you to use under the applicable regulations pursuant to chapter two a five  regulations pursuing two section two or five bash six so is the bottom half of page three and it goes on to ph four and two it's pursuant to section two or five dash six c so as findings of fact and conclusions of law the applicable regulation states such ru but if any if the commission finds any unusual under this law to justify otherwise that this permit shall be denied then it's your authority to make that deny this permit because because now you totally have an accumulation of uses i don't know what the conditions of those are because i came to the air i can for the record read in all the reasons why this permit should be  denied i'm surprised that this commission already approved for special use permits five special use permits in the area i would almost like to take away one or two resort does ignition intervention in the parole that move forward and they nor i saw three letters that asked for a denial and the reasons for the denials was covered in here from the land use commission item see certain unusual reasonable uses which says that the use was not contrary to the objectives but they are in the state where they are and that the propose use would not adversely have attended at least four community meetings one of them being the west in homeowner's association meeting where the homeowners him self have been constantly be advocating for fire and fire rescue and police presence as well is an upgrade to the fifty year old  lines that they have been petitioning the county of ma we to take over the road so the road to the county can pay for the road  an increase in vacation rentals short term when tolls for tourism most certainly burdens public agencies to provide roads and streets it's on the record  and it's a big deal for them down there and we just don't have the money for it also there's issues with public access already on the shoreline there's two requests f service for you legal greeting and grabbing on the shoreline there's a bunch of issues and i think this would add to it i don't think we need number six and number seven especially when this commission has you mention are existing existing deficiencies that are out there so how would this particular just trying to make sure that if we do go through on this denial that you that the arguments being used are actually valid if the home is being used in its current state i believe we discussed this it has four bedrooms that would actually be a larger burden on public utilities that it would be if it were restricted to three bedrooms on a short term rental so the intensification of use would seem to to decline so i don't i don't understand that  any special use permits in an egg that is not zoned for that it doesn't matter it's spot zoning and what you're going to do is you're going to hurt the few long term homeowners like pat eventually because they're going to be taxed and why would you encourage commercial development with special egg tax conservation parcel that belongs to all of the all of the owners of adjacent parcels down there so i don't know i haven't seen myself i live on the west animal and i haven't seen many any issues with access to the so we leave it up the commissioners to determine what those reasons should be are we going to do that in individually as we vote i mean how are we going to what is our proof of our burden of proof when the as commissioners those reasons when it when it comes to applying to all five  so you have to basically look at the report of the department is providing those facts of the report as well as you can develop the record with the applicant with the consultant you can ask questions reasonable unusual or or reasonable use so basically you should develop facts from the records from the report from after the applicant and then if any of the facts correspond with those guidelines  of course they're going to build their case per se and often i mean they're not going to say that they are i mean i was part of the other proven processes and when i first got on the commission my thought was people wanted people illegal rentals to become legal so there was one application that said it's not for mobile land or it's the water there was not water when in truth there is water there it's just cost prohibitive to farm down there because it's expensive so that's a big jump in statement between being not having water to farm versus paying a lot of money if you want to farm on a big it's those kind of things that you see written in and i'm just trying to  clarify again you get the you get some information from the record you can ask the applicant get an additional input information from the applicant as well as you've heard testimony some testimony on this matter and with regard to testimony that additional facts that you can take into consideration and if you need to further develop what you heard and public testimony can then ask again the applicant or the department with regard to any questions you have applicant did not meet and why based on what you've heard or  certification is in adequate the shoreline to have to be moved because it is a coastal doon shoreline and it's listed in the guinness book of world records as the longest contiguous sure be in two thousand and twelve we argued with when somebody wanted to do the the board of land on natural resources found that the needed to follow the precautionary principle on the development within the coastal dune taking into consideration that large document and research that went into it to see that the homes that were being built on the shoreline really needed to move and that there was burden increases and increases and what i'm saying is we already have the reason why we have short term rentals as explained to me but in the county of mali is really two reasons economic development and to enhance visitor and increase visitor satisfaction that's what it says in the book of care that's the ring two reasons why we should be sitting here arguing shocked or mentalism my community says no no no no no and they have this much documentation that validates the perspective so all i saying is i think we have more than enough reasons to deny this permit and any of the future permits and if people want to build a hotel and develop go right ahead there's five areas in right for the that they used the proposed use is contrary to the object sought to be accomplished by choppers to a five and to a five a yes and you're also saying that the propose fire protection yes because of all seventy percent of the debt and i'm just seeing it seventy percent because i know it's more than fifty percent of all the drowning in west more were from visitors and  that's because we don't have proper signage it's not a area outside of the area and you have no signage in the beaches and other areas frequented by visitors and saw we're going to get to the point where all of this stuff is going to come out and there is not proper excess right now for the public who wants to gold to what they call third hole and axes is not permitted because back in the seventies when this subdivision was approve there was not due diligence given  feedback as to where people who in twenty seven thousand would want to take the kids to swim waiting wasn't one drawn and that was that third hole where we have no access and it's become an issue for the west and homeowners association as well as the condo homeowners association who are constantly dealing with trespassing issues from the public so it is a huge issue  decided that they didn't want to build it close to the road so in order to meet fire suppression rules for the county amal we had to put in swimming pools which which then the conditions of the swimming pool had to be so you wouldn't use more water and then the argument became that water was a big issue and with people paying more in excess of two thousand dollars a month for water in well  infrastructure to support commercialism else sighed the resort areas it was not designed for that he call did not meet accommodations for commercialism outside enhance visitor experience or for commercialism for people who can afford second and third homes saw that's all unusual conditions trends and needs in the district new on that because i'm just trying to write it down because what you said earlier in regards to unusual condition trends and needs of the proximity of the used to the other properties which are zone to allow it in the community number for a little bit more so another on usual condition excuse me can i just interrupt you for just a moment i think we're on the i think you're kind of arguing further for number  two or number three because number four to me is the new conditions and trends would be the desire of some people to have a short term around all and they to deny you don't have to meet all five so you've established at least i'm going to have three did she say facts for number one do you have because you said that when he asked her of the use sh l is contrary to the objectives sought to be accomplished by chapter two or five so it's relative to the ag uses that she that use that she specified i don't know if she wants to like point certain creators on the that and number two was that it does adversely affect the surrounding property and number three that is reasonably burden to the public agencies so i heard all those  three i heard all three and i think i heard five as well but if we could just develop it such as for number one the you shall not the use is contrary to the object of the bridge to be accomplished by chapter two of five they use wood and reasonably bird in public agencies road streets sewers drainage  and the land upon which the proposed use is sought is unsuited for the put up for the a picky the application or the use being sought for application or whatever where you need to be more specific then so like you said earlier so may i so basically those are conclusions of law we need the findings of fact that go along with that so  ok and then so the next one has become in the proposed use would adversely affects running property because saw this signing an increase in property taxes so that's adverse  and access so that's the economic impact an adverse effect yeah economic impact sporadic job opportunity with no benefits no sewage treatment plant that can accommodate extra use the systems are not designed to accommodate increased usage and them again because we increasing visitor usage in areas not designated for visitor use safety is an issue as i mentioned before from fire rescue and police and communication three in favor of the motion and he opposed to the motion to deny he did not so that motion failed so where we can entertain another motion or we can defer this item until the next meeting it's up to think that's up to the individual commissioners and i don't know there's any obligation to disclose the reason for opposition so if any commissioner would like to give their reasons and that would be fine but please no one feel compelled that entertain another motion is there a motion to approve ok so you know for the discussion all in favor of the motion please raise your right hand to defer one two three four and any oppose of the motion to differ there is to oppose the motion to defer ok so the motion fails and i  so i think perhaps a motion to another motion to defer would if anyone would change their vote we really can't close the meeting we really can't do anything we  have a motion to do something commission meeting knowing that i would be here please put on every important please put that in your notes to bring that up at the next meeting because i will likely forget ok is there a motion to adjourn the meeting part of me i don't think