say that if you have public testimony we're going to limit that to three minutes that's something that i haven't done in the past and i showed up so all public testimony will be limited to three minutes so with that being said i will start their hearing right now is there any public testimony at this time amendment to chapter nineteen point three zero eight agriculture district of the maui conny quote to allow for the creation of agricultural conservation locks and presenting the department's report as our handy the first the first handout is a little booklet with a photograph of you on the front also provided to members with copies of the resolution fourteen dash one one four this was also in your staff report and that's the subject of today's public airing and our staff report we had an exhibit six which we'll be talking about today it's hard to make sure that all the members have that handy and i made a copy of our agricultural zoning ordinance chapter nineteen thirty so you have that before you so for today's public hearing i wanted to walk through this powerful out of this little book life for the members so it's going to be important that we are we're literally all on the same page with us so i'm going to actually tell you when to change pages typically we would do this with a projector but the lighting here makes that difficult that was transmitted to the department for distribution to the planning commission and when this happens we typically follow the process in the charter there's a section in the charter charter dash eight point four that's the relevant section which requires that we saw in the news these this type of legislation runs the first slide here to the planning commissions for there are review of their recommendations so one option is to recommend approval proposed a second option is to recommend denial commission doesn't support it in order to pass legislation that's that's why it's important that they hear from you folks in terms of what your concerns are when we met yesterday with the maui planning commission they decided to list a set of issues that they thought should be addressed by the council so now he didn't recommend specific changes to the bill they preferred less that specific set of issues that than the department would transmit to the council for their consideration so we're going to go to  to essentially what the planning commission decided to do rather than getting into the specific bill and making specific language changes they decided to make a list of the issues  concerns that they had and then we'll transmit that list to the council for their consideration ok slide two as important because it really gets to the purpose and tat of the resolution and at the bottom of that slide the bottom third you'll see some graphic and i think the graphics help us understand what's what we're trying to accomplish so really when you get down to it the way that the bill came down from from the council  this amendment to our zoning ordinance chapter nineteen thirty it would allow for the creation of what's being called an agricultural conservation law and along with that it would allow us to have a lot sizes smaller than two acres so we could acre so that the whole idea here is to encourage the clustering of these ag lots so that we can preserve a larger portion of the parcel in perpetuity for agriculture and that's kind of illustrated here at the bottom of the slide on the left hand side we have an open track of property and subdivided property in the middle image we have a conventional subdivision all the lots are roughly the same size no real creativity the layout of the subdivision and on the right hand side we have a clustered subdivision so you'll see the small lot with a big ag conservation lot on the left there are two points that are very important for this commission to remember when considering this legislation the first is that this program  voluntary sometimes communities will adopt this type of legislation and it will be a requirement in this case if an applicant wants to pursue this type of project utilizing  costs for a concept they can choose to do so but we're not going to require it as proposed the second key point is the ordinance as it's constructed does not allow any additional subdivision over and provide to understand how this is going to work it's a it's really good idea to look at the current framework for how we manage our agricultural lands so most of the members are aware that everybody's looking at the third slide the third page you'll see a table that indicates the different lands in the ag district of the state and you'll notice that has about one hundred twelve thousand acres in the state ag district so that's a lot of land and county wide we have about four hundred and one thousand acres in the state ag district that's about seventy sixty seven percent of the total area that's in the urban rural ag and conservation districts if you take the sum total of lot on molokai about sixty seven percent is in the ag district now the important thing about the state land use law as it relates to this legislation is that the state law has a minimum lot size of one acre in the ag district so the county cannot propose a lot size smaller than one acre as part of a clustering norms and then we all know that the state law includes a list of permitted uses and regulates act lands through that through permit process let's turn those the page to the fourth page slide for the most significant tool that we have to manage our ag alliance is one nine hundred thirty eight that's the ag zoning ordinance and agricultural subdivisions throughout and we counted so before nineteen ninety nine before the adoption of this bill people could take large tracts of agricultural  acres and you could do five hundred two acre lots and that created significant concern out in the community which then created a lot of concern at the executive level and at the legislative level and maui county so they adopted the ag builded to deal with this because of the degradation of agricultural land  as well as the infrastructure and planning challenges are resulting from that but that law included what we call a sliding scale so if you go to nine hundred thirty eight the zoning ordinance if you go to subsection g there's a sliding scale which basically is used to determine how much subdivision potential you can get from a piece acland so that sliding scale tells you how many locks could be created and the minimum lot size so you go to the next slide and next page this is a this table is actually really a picture of what's in the ad zoning ordinance on the left hand side of this what we call a sliding scale is a set of numbers and so a property owner will determine how large their personal lives the look at the right hand side of the table and that table is used to determine how many two acre lots fifteen twenty five and forty acre lots are permitted in terms of subdivision important to note that the total number of two acre lots that are permitted today is fourteen so it's capped at fourteen two acre lots once you reach that cap any further subdivision has to be fifteen twenty five or forty acres it's also important to note that once you've reached your subdivision potential you're deed restricted and there's no further subdivision potential otherwise the whole process would be worthless let's go to the next slide slide number six slide number six page six includes a table that represents how that sliding scale works so you'll see in the left hand column different parcels by size and then to the right you'll see how many lots you get so for instance if you go to the middle one of the middle rows you'll see one hundred acres one hundred acre parcel under and those would be of sizes between twelve two acre lots to fifteen acre lots and one twenty five acre lot total of fifteen lots now the number of plots diminishes relative to the parcel size over as the parcels get larger so let's look at how that works so i said one hundred acres you get fifteen lots that's basically six point six acres per lot if you have two hundred acres if you go to the far right column you'll see two hundred acres you get a total of nineteen lots that's ten point seven or ten point five acres per lot for a five hundred acre parcel a total of twenty nine lots are permitted that's seventeen acres per lot for a thousand acre parcel forty six slots are permitted so that's twenty two acres per lot most of the county's ag land on all three islands is still in very large parcels so the sliding scale protects those large parcels two to a large degree and if you look at the second column you'll see that the two acre lots are capped at fourteen so a two hundred acre lot gets fourteen small lots but a few hours an acre lot is also kept at fourteen so that was a pretty significant change to go to the next slide slide so you'll see a graph the graph that illustrates the difference between pre ag bill i e before hundred nine and after the legislation was adopted the x axis at the bottom of the table in the case the size of the parcel the y axis on the left hand size is potential subdivision potential and you'll see the bluish line which is illustrates subdivision potential prior to the ag bill so perth aus an acre parcel five hundred lots permitted the red line is  post adoption one thousand nine hundred nine and on forty six slots per minute so that was a ninety percent reduction in the subdivision potential of acland across the county and this is important because clustering sure i have a you know i have a question about the pursuit in sly and this pertains to a development that was not done here ranch wanted to do believe it's about sixty three hundred acres and so according to this chart they could have gotten eighty four two acre parcel and there wouldn't have been any public process is that correct if this was approved i'd have to look at the personal use of the parcel size was six sixty three hundred plus acres if it was sixty three hundred plus acres and if it was one parcel because it depends they may have had several parcels you know yeah that's one parcel because if it was one parcel there would be captive fourteen laws that could be as small as two acres but these things are really complicated so i took to give you the exact number in that situation i would need to see all of the different parcels sizes and i'm not very familiar with the specifics of the projects so you know i just want my question is is there's a project like this and if this were approved and there were a project like that it could go ahead and be developed without any public input or correct if today under they could do that but they could not get more than fourteen mazzocchi that's the law today fourteenth two acre lots everything else would have to be about fifteen twenty five and forty and maybe i can answer some of the additional questions with the hands i think some of the slide may address some of these issues so slide eight page eight will get to how this proposed legislation is going to work with the existing law how is this new clustering approach that's being proposed how would it relate to our laws that we have today ok the first important thing is that determining the number of slots isn't going to change all right  you still determine the maximum number of watts based on your personal size and the total number of lots will not increase or decrease stays the same the second important point related to the legislation that came down from the council is that if you're going to do you want of these cluster subdivisions you have to dedicate sixty to seventy percent of the parcel area for agriculture or open space and that's a that's going to be deed restricted in perpetuity for parcels that are ninety two acres or higher seventy percent of that parcel will have to be dedicated for parcels less than ninety two acres it's sixty percent so that's sort of the public benefit part of this one of the major public benefit benefits now this a conservation law this big area that would be preserved would be restricted from any future is a zoning or subdivision right once it's created you're restricted from future zoning us or subdivision or consolidation it would be also be restricted to the permit it uses in our zoning ordinance so that would be the principal uses and the accessory uses we have a lot of special uses in our zoning ordinance and those special uses couldn't happen on these act conservation laws now if up property owner applicant decides to pursue that and they're willing to do the a conservation lot they could then cluster their logs in the sizes as small as one acre so remember the existing laws as you get so many two acre lots and then you get fifteen twenty five and forty acre lots they can take all those logs and cluster them a small is one acre but they've got to do the act conservation law so if you go to the next slide slide nine you'll see what's happening what we're seeing happening and what some of the concerns are with the application of the current law this is a thousand acre parcel an example of one thousand acre parcel developed on if you look at page nine developed under the existing law so thousand acres in the sliding scale forty six lots are permitted fourteen lots can be as small as two acres seventeen and small as fifteen acres twenty five excuse me ten lots of small as twenty five and five is as forty you'll see in that picture that there is a two hundred sixty seven acre park portion that parcel that remains on undeveloped wall but the issue with a subdivision like this is that you're consuming or fragmenting you're chopping up a lot of ag land so that's that's the concern and we're seeing some of this so we're trying to find a way to to prevent this from happening so if you go to the next page page ten you'll see the same thousand acre parcel developed with forty six lots just like the previous slide but we've used the clustering approach so we've allowed the lots in this case to be as small as two acres and then we have over nine hundred acres that would be protected in this deed restrictions so this is the this really illustrates the application of this new proposed process this voluntary process to go to page you'll see a conventional subdivision we see these all the time without any design criteria no site plan criteria so in this slide you'll see on page eleven you'll see a stream going through the property so if you look to the right of the slide of floodplain you'll see some wooded areas and this parcel is subdivided into twenty one lots they're all about the same size so the current law there's not a lot of flexibility in terms of parcel sizes and a lot of times when that happens folks will come in and subdivided without consideration to the topography or some of the natural features on the land so if you turn the page page twelve if you go to page twelve we'll see those same parcel same number of lots twenty one lots upper right hand corner of that slide there are clustered and you'll see the ad conservation lot is protected the the wooded areas the streams the flood plains all of those are less affected by the project which with the clustering so there are some real benefits to allowing for a cluster tod's we've preserved if you look at that slide let's say this is one hundred acres seventy percent of it that big park that big parcel we have the agriculture going on seventy percent of it is perpetuity as ag land and once we do that the value of that land falls to reflect its use for agriculture so one of the greatest impediments were having to agriculture is the price of our ground and the ability to get long term leases so one of the things that we could see happening with this proposal once we get these areas that are d restricted the areas become more feasible for farming the other advantages with the flexibility of a lot size you can do more creative site planning so we've been able to avoid the screenings and void to the flood plain and that should be a requirement in the law so in this proposal we have language that says you will have these site psych area in addition you're going to reduce your impervious surfaces when you're building a large project over a large area you're building lots of roads and lots of driveways all the water that comes down is going to hit that pavement roll off and you're going to end up with nonpoint source pollution so we have some opportunities for that as well now there are also some benefits for the developer with the smaller lots you reduce your infrastructure costs less roads to build less sewers and water lines and that kind of cost savings on landscaping irrigation all that all that stuff one of the most important benefits for a developer with a clustered approach is that a lot of times under the current system you're de you're doing lots in areas that are born difficult to work with so the slopes may be steep maybe distant from f or structure right so the costs are much higher so if those laws could be developed in an area where it's easier to deal with th costs fall less risk and the market the market for these large ag lives the rest of the sliding scale requires lots that have to be at least twenty five acres or forty acres while those lots of have historically been more difficult to sell so with a clustered approach there may be more of a market for for those lot you turn the page page thirteen we have our planning documents whenever we do implementations such as a change to his zoning ordinance we want to make sure we have a basis for doing that in our policy and our policy is our general plan so we have a county wide policy plan that was adopted in march of two thousand and ten and in the land use chapter we have objective for and if you look at the bottom right hand side of that slide you'll see a policy let me read that for you the policy states promote creative subdivision designs that implement best practice and land of elements a standalone management of natural and physical resources increased pedestrian and bicycle functionality and safety and the principles of livable communities the county wide policy plan provides broad policy for all of  our three people dialogues the molokai community plan two thousand and one also has a policy that states established zoning standards with varying minimum lot sizes to prevent the improper use and reflect different kinds to the next slide slide fourteen the department supports the concept of cluster subdivision but designed but we do have some concerns with the resolution and the bill that's attached to that resolution they came down from the council and we work closely with council member guzmn to address some of our concerns we feel that bill is a little too complicated we feel that to make this really work there there needs to be design criteria we wanted to make it clear in the ordinance that the department will create these design criteria the bill that came down from council included a second sliding scale to be honestly one sliding scale is complicated enough too is unnecessary conservation easements are difficult to enforce so we felt in the bill options in the bill that came down from council we feel that a unilateral agreement is much stronger for the county to enforce these requirements so we we've revised accordingly if you go to the next sli e fifteen page fifteen the exhibits six which what you have in your staff report is the department's proposal which we did work with council member who's going on in his staff we've simplified the ordinance we've done some reorganization we've clarified some of the provisions but we've kept in support of the purpose and intent there's a few key provisions in the ordinance i just to make sure this commission is aware of again no increase in subdivision potential with this proposal that the council has set down to us the minimum lot size number we have two acre lots in the current bill fourteen of them captive for team that would go down the one age or so you can do the smaller clustered lot if you're going to have a one acre lot in the lot size house to be adjusted to reflect that so currently for two acre lot we have a two hundred foot lot with that's not supposed to come down the one fifty we included a provision to require the site plan criteria and we've kept the seventy percent and sixty percent requirements in terms of the agricultural conservation l the ag conservation law in the department's proposal like the proposal that came out from council is restricted to the permitted uses and in the act bill no  the ag conservation lot is restricted to a maximum developable area of the farm galling to farm collings are permitted in the ag just upon each lot currently one of those walling can only be a thousand square feet for the ag conservation lot the department fields that there needs to be a cap on the size of those dwellings so together between the two do all ngs we feel four thousand square feet should be the or consolidation or further subdivision unless it's requested by a governmental agency now there are two policy issues that the department is still wrestling with and so we're seeking guidance from  commissions in the public on these issues one of them is whether or not we should have a maximum lot size in addition of the minimum lot size what we've seen with the two acre lot under the current law is that a lot of applicants are subdividing two acre lots or doing like five acre lots because the market is i guess more sustainable for that type of development but that would defeat some extent the purpose of the bill which is to make sure that we've clustered the development potential so many jurisdictions have a maximum lot size in addition of the minimum could be two acres could be three acres and that's something we're we're still looking at and the second issue is whether we should have a cap on the number of lots that could be clustered some of the parcels in the county are very large so even with the reduction in subdivision potential that occurred when the ag bill was passed you could still on a large parcel say a eight thousand acre parcel is permitted two hundred  seventy six logs so if we take the two hundred seventy six lots we can cluster um you know yeah yeah so you have to ask yourself is that too much do we need a cap on the size of the cluster subdivision so that's the second policy issue that if if this body has any suggestions we very much appreciate it so if we go to the next slide page seventeen the department does support and this is in your staff for recommendation and the staff report the planning apartment supports the proposed bill as amended in exhibit six and the department recommends of the draft revised language be adopted in lieu of the proposed  or anyone here that would like to ok thank you ok so i guess before i start a question so that they're smart questions and my questions tell me in your own words what was the purpose of creating a designated zoning residential usage on it and why would what would a clustering like this how would it ok so my my i guess my question is we put together together for a very specific reason right to promote agriculture and in residential areas are you permitted use on that land so by doing this it's almost as if we're creating another way to have residential subdivisions that are not required then to use the land for which it was originally intended so they get to be clustered into a residential type community but don't have enough land to grow their crops in do whatever they have to do and that separated from them so what makes if you go to page nine of the hand the first thing i want to point out that's really really important is the purpose of the ag district camp you go back to that ordinance the two primary purposes are one protect act land and to promote agriculture i mean that's that's really the foundation that's why we have the i guess to protect ag land promote agriculture and so anything that we do needs to really further that purpose and if we go to page and we'll look at we see a subdivision that's happening today under the existing law and we've got it we have a picture of a thousand acre parcel that's been fragmented and we view this this is what is happening on the ground today so we view this as being inconsistent to some extent with that second print that first principle of protecting our ag land so the idea is if we turn to the next page and we have this new provision that when you look at the total public purpose as applied in this ordinance with this new section you're able to save nine hundred plus acres of agricultural land same forty six lots any any lot in the ag district can't even these cluster of lots have to comply with our zoning ordinance and state law and state law does require agriculture so we do have some provision density of that property doesn't change we're not allowing any additional lot but it's also the reason why we raise that second question should there be a cap on the number of  lot for this cluster subdivision so it's something we're cognizant and we're trying to get this kind of feedback on so then that brings me to my next question so if on the sliding scale you show that the permitted w fourteen now the number of lots that would be permitted through this program will not change at all as as you know as as it's written by both council member guzman and as a set down to us from the full council via the resolution and as proposed by the department we would not support an increase in l so if so then that would give the land owner to flexibility of being able to say that you had seven one acre lots and then threw everything else into an open space that it would it would provide that option the land owner could choose to do seven  if they're willing to set aside to add conservation laws and deed restricted to those provisions i had mentioned earlier in the presentation i'll tell you i found this thing so troubling i sat down and read it three times the third time this morning number one we have to add subdivisions papa  branch lands and and in almost forty years time covello is fifty percent built out the other fifty percent of the people half of them wish they never bought and can't sell for what they have them and i would say papa haku is like maybe twenty five or thirty percent built out and there's only i mean it's not even ten percent built out so we don't have any demand for these kind of lots on this island number one number two we do you one thing that we may and probably need to supportable housing and market affordable i mean he just it costs more and so where where are the local people going to live where are the people who were going to live where are we going to put affordable housing you've eliminated it on the whole law and i don't understand this and a lot of the egg lands on this island are usable farmland so i i'm sorry but i'm not getting it now these are absolutely critical planning issues and they go oh these are the issues that you folks will be wrestling with as part of your  subdivided into portable housing cannot be art so you have a lemonade i don't i mean if you can explain it to me how you're avoiding this and i dish only says that it can never be added a provision to the to the bill so the department bill differs from the building came down from council so that the deed restriction on future rezoning consolidation re  provision as a as a planner when looking at affordable housing we're looking at how much land we have let's look at how much the population is today and how much is expected to grow a look existing housing affordability and the key component is to make sure that there is an adequate and torrie developable land in areas i was to be in the right clothes location of the wood supporter be conducive for the development of workforce so it's a real and that's just one part of the but that's an important part the plan in apartments complain important role  lease out that whole huge space as an agricultural business would we then create new problems for residents i mean because now you're not talking about individual lots that have small farms or which is kind of what we do here but we're talking about of a lot of large portions of land that can be even up to large companies to do to do for medical uses that may not be kosher or may not be agreeable with the type of industry or the type of things that our community would want but because it's now getting to a project and it's legal would we have any outs to say this is not you know this may be appropriate because of what it's covered under but it may not be something that is good for our community and let me just answer in terms of how the law would work with those ag conservation law it would be its would be created it would be a separate entity would be a separate lot separate from the cluster of lots not lot could be retained by the owners of the cluster lots or it could be sold and fee simple the some other owner monoculture that the department our department doesn't have any control over the type of agriculture that occurs on a parcel but what we are trying to encourage by taking the development attentional off of this ag conservation laws is to make sure that it's more likely the land will be made available either in a few simple  for agriculture because right now a lot of folks will hold their property they won't leave for dollars because they're looking at oh i can develop this so they're not offering long excuse me maybe i'm the only one unhappy with expect the other issue for me is we've got some large holdings some large egg lands that are owned by families like the dunbar family like the myer family and this would prohibit those families from dividing that land among their errors or you know if they have six children giving each one of their children  i mean it's just yeah i mean you're you know i don't see how that's fair to families that have struggled with land for so many years but number one that's one thing the other thing is anything on now under conservation has got to be a development plan has to be approved by d l and r and i can tell you that if this goes into at and a conservation a farmer is going to wait a year to get is his plan approved by d called an ag conservation lot but it stays in that ag district it's not subject to dealing are on that review regarding the other important point to not that this is a voluntary program right so if we have a land owner large land owner with a large family this may actually make it easier for them to pass land out of their errors because right now you're capped at the number of small lots so let's say you're a large land daughter and you're actually really do an ag and that's really important to get you what you want to pass down la d once you kept out of fourteen lives you're going to have to start breaking up you're going to have to start giving out fifteen twenty five or forty parcels right which starts to diminish the productivity of the land for agriculture so under this proposal if you want to pass down land to your errors instead of having to do a larger lot you could do a small lot and government used to be added what the planning department or what what is your recommendation right that was a really good point from public works and that's that's why the department out of that language to say what  it can be further subdivided or the zoning could be changed and it also includes the restriction on permitted uses as long as it's requested by a governmental agency for a public purpose so so we're being asked today to give our comments and according to our required timeline we have an opportunity to do further so that we can make comments as a commission together and submit at the next meeting or is it something that we got to do right today because i have a diane has a lot to say i probably have some stuff to say it's kind of hard to figure out the exact words here and the molly planning department had a really good idea not putting exact wording but just kind of voicing our our then that might be the route but what's our time late night  for the commissions to get their comments back to the  decided not to necessarily get into the weeds of the exact language but they felt it was very important and it was very helpful to us as staff for them to get on the record and to make their recommendation and make for our comments to the next meeting at which time the commissioners would come back with concerns concerns that we could transmit through the department for c comments that has some i have some good kind of just jot them down and write them down in real clear english so that when we come back we could either hand it to the planning department and we could see it on the record and then that we were kind of organized and we don't take up a whole lot of time talking about this we know exactly what we want to see and then transmit it at that point as a commission as a group i'm buying ok so  comment on it even though the wording over here prior to the directors determination becoming final the directors show notify the commission of your system application and the commission's next release schedule meeting receipt of which shall be acknowledged by the commission such notification chain will but not be limited to the name of the applicant the location of the subject property and a brief description of the proposal action or commission job or to either review the assessment application at its next available meaning come back to you at a future meeting and the staff would write a report and you know make the full hour presentation so i guess we've been doing that for the past two planning discussion so that there's no so i think my reason for wanting to see it is simply because it's not as if it's a new thing where they're coming in for a permit and wanting to do it and in the past we've had a lot of trouble with people who after the fact and seeing this on paper as it is written right now doesn't really give us a clear view of what it is what the intent is how it was built why they're coming in for after the fact i mean we've had people like commissioner swenson come in with an after the fact but clearly stated why there is emergency need for it and those kinds of things i think that would be my reason for asking for the review ok ok commissioners there's been a motion a second again oh all those in favor mr rogers or you you i think i think what we could get it was like you know sometimes when you do things like that and then they go to the insurance companies maybe we can get something to your state why you want to do the after the fact  sometimes the insurance company won't care it because it's not not something the county approved so maybe we can you know maybe you can oust the homeowners that too is it because it's diane yeah i think you know if we could have a little more information mike if you had given us that information that somebody had maybe the vote would have been different but i mean if we know i can provide that with the you know that packet instead of going through the whole yes occasion so far on this particular project so the next meeting we will see we will well they may or may not take it up before the going got if we don't have anything on our agenda right now for february twenty fifth and all you're coming for us  so i don't think we need to address that too i mean we can make her go another forty five d others can we take another vote on that today ok chair i have something to say so we cannot base our decisions on on a personal emotional that she's terminally ill but this place is already built it's an after the fact permit whether or not she gets this permit done now or when she's on oahu it's already built so that the buildings are already there the renovation has already taken place i don't think that we have so many of these before the woman leaves that her building has to be built up they're using it it's built it's done and i don't think at any time this commission should ever base our decision on personal circumstances of an applicant and find sympathy to move forward because somebody is in a dire need i think we have to take into consideration what is going to be our protocol is are we voting that the evidence here does not support what we need to know about it are we voting because we feel bad that somebody in an emergent situation so can we defer this until february i guess that's what i've been asking can we large we have to we have to do it in march we can't do it in february is that we want based on the decision that we made for the conservation agricultural land our comments that were made that we get it together and we send it off by e mail to whoever that's it that's all we're asking i'm not sure how the other part came up well i think the the answer to that question this yes until and this to add on i was just asking because i heard clinton say there was no i didn't buy them for the twenty fifth of february so if there was not agenda items i was thinking that it was not in the best interest of the department to fly all the way over here to get our comments when it could be e mailed e mail but now i did forget that we want to review the aftereffects of that something that is guaranteed to be put on the net agenda and i guess we're going to have a meeting but i was just vote that was when we knew we voted on as a motion to get more information in the packet to make that decision is that what everybody said yes to ok so to make this easier because i want our comments to be heard and i don't know if this is appropriate but because i want our comments to be heard prior to the council getting together to review the resolution is it possible for us to go back and say that we would like to transmit our comments individually or as a commission via e mail because we're not sure we have in the february twenty fifth by march twenty  met on the resolution that's that's what i'm understanding right so i guess my question is also with so it should be here that we needed to more information in the packet and everything for that has to be that we will have to do that on march twenty fifth it definitely sounds like we can there isn't going to be anything that we can do on february twenty fifth is that correct  i don't know i don't know i just we can i guess and if we don't meet until the twenty fifth they're not going to have it out and i don't know march eleventh so that's what i'm asking why can't we have it on march eleventh and get our comments sound so that's what i was trying and preparing our own staff report back to the council the committee deferred the item today with the intent to be just the next meeting to monday that all of us could submit our comments to you can that be part of can that be part of the information you put together or do we have to wait till the because i think it's the way we made the motion so joe so to make a motion ok so i want to amend the previous motion to say that the commission wishes to include their comments sir thank you would we be able to take a very short recess so we can communicate and staff and if we need to contact her attorney just to make sure we're following the proper procedures like we have two options first option would be if if an individual has common they want to as a member of the community not as a member of the commission an not be if we could not transmit it via email at a later time if you make comments at this point we would want what we would suggest is that the committee get the concept that the concept down so that staff can then incorporate that into the staff report so it would be getting on the record those items are issues  so like for the meeting yesterday individual members what just said i have it had a concern about let me give you an example how is this going to affect my well as to how the implications are negative fact in terms of how property owners will be able to transfer their land to their errors and we think this is really important in the council needs to consider this carefully if there were no objections to that from the members then that would be one of the items that would be flagged in the staff report and sent out to the council so those it was handled in that manner we should make a motion to reset what we discussed and then have another motion to discuss it now as i understand it there would need to be a motion i don't know i'm not comfortable because i don't think we should spend a whole lot of time having one discussion over that stuff when when we haven't had the chance to work we just be here for another hour and popular stuff so i'll just leave it at that and i guess  comments got through because i really do want to speak as a body but but to make sure our comments got through as an individual member right now my comments email it to you and then we could still talk about it at our next meeting and reiterate those things and then be presented as a body i mean it's my understanding that the council is going to hear this on march twenty fifth clayton says we cannot have a meeting until march twenty fifth so there is no way the council will get our comments must we give them today or the county all agree to let us have a meeting on march eleventh so that's why i'm seeing that as an individual community member we can transmit our comments individual right and even if we had a meeting on march eleventh it doesn't necessarily mean that the park milot have our comments and minutes ready to be submitted to the to transmit our report everything so there is one hundred twenty day deadline for the department to transmit its report this is pursuant to the charter we have one hundred much would be kind of think we're right up against the deadline i mean we're going to miss the deadline if there's a deferral here but what i'm saying is it's unlikely that the council is going to take this up in march because they're going to be in budget so so if if we made a motion to defer the dean we could do the individual request sure members of the public can submit their comments on these types of issues this is a legislative issues and the vigils can feel free to submit their own written testimony to the department three is to defer it and take the item up at the next meeting which of those which would be on march the eleventh reopen the item and then the committee committee votes to deny to vote against it the implication that commission is sending a statement to the council that you don't support the concept you' recommended denial and the commission's going to councils need two thirds vote to pass legislation now the timing is a real issue in the sense that you know one hundred twenty day clock because you know it affects our transmetal of the information back to council i just want you to folks know that seem like you're under the impression of the council is going to meet on this on march twenty fifth and i haven't heard  cluster but i have other concerns about this but i want the council to know if you guys i mean they i think they did it without understanding where the ag lands are and  what happens to affordable housing and i want them to know that and i'd like it to come from this body and you know i think i think legally we haven't opened this topic anyway so we shouldn't be right now because we're not adding any i asked that question now because as i understand it that's not the case that we don't need to make plate and you know you're probably better with robert you know i guess we want to get your comments to the council but if you need more time you know just with the comments when you are so we we can reset what we did today what you can do is what the committee commission may do as we send the deferral and begin to debate again if you decide to do march eleventh i can add more under the director's report so it'll give me enough time to generate a little bit more items for february twenty fifth i concern is not so much because we've already decided we either would have one meeting on the even twenty fifth or the eleventh so at this point my urgency is we get our comments in prior to the hundred twenty so if so right just said no all was there why would we have it on the twenty fifth if it were not if it's we're not ready we don't have time to do mrs lopez is it would give her more time to give us some some conditions that we could take action on she's made action on and we've already gone by the hundred twenty days and correct me if i'm wrong i don't mean to be no because i think the original intent late clinton was anything that didn't make the february twenty fifth was only moved to march twenty fifth any lease the any reason  suggested that was to make it more if it efficient what a department to me can i just ask why it took so long for the department to translate this information to us and then have us crunched without the time to to make the comm drafting of the planning commission report so we've got a lot of the basis we have to report to the three commissions will take that report man it will add a new section to that report that basically highlights i'd have to go back and look at the calendar but it's tight it's tight i mean like i said we've done most of the heavy lifting with the report so it with that being said because the planning commission is meeting next week and the twenty fifth is the week after i would suggest that we try to get our comments and have a meeting of february twenty fifth so that we can at least try to make it as close to inclusion in the status report as opposed to completely being out of it by the time they submit and then for going on m to certificate of adoptions the seventeenth day of october you know i think we would certainly transmit the recommendations of those commission you know what we really hope helpful if we could all read our material and make our notes before we come to the meeting instead of having to decide in the meeting hopes we didn't get a chance to study it and let's defer it i mean i would know if the commission wants us to up approach it like that then what we would do on our staff or tour take those take those items that were conveyed in the conversation deliberation we would have to phrase it as these were the types of issues that were brought up by the commission but not as a vote of the commission but issues that were brought up during the commission's deliberation  commission has not major recommendation per se at this point there's been no recommendation of support or denial or support with amendments so at this point we can't say that the m commission supported the proposal we can say that the molokai commission discussed it and deliberated it and these were the issues are the issues that we have yeah right ok  with that being said do i have a motion to adjourn oh yes male ok there's a motion is there a second second all those in favor say aye opposed please be quiet ok and so we have the meeting scheduled for