bifurcation since your first action that we took in the first reading there was no move for that in the committee did not agree upon that initially so i'm just wondering isn't it going to have to take an official action at the next meeting to bifurcate that's the question i'm asking i just think for order it might be the best case i have no problem doing it either way and i'm going to vote in the same fashion as you go to a speech but i just think in terms of good order we should have a motion toward the presentation to bifurcate so it's on the curriculum but here they're recommending that we eliminate as they're requiring lisa you've made it clear that you're against this i guess if if if anybody else is on the same path as you are i would say yes let's bring to the board but if it's just the two of you then there's no reason to is anybody else from the same path as the two of you ok just i agree that way everybody knows what's happening right and we don't want to run the risk of not passing for the other things that it appears everybody agrees on because that will mess up the host scheduling so well for each of us always has th and and my children benefited from doing speeches but i'm not sure that that can't be handled by doing speech i ask why in other classes you know as part of a presentation science class or a presentation in english or social studies because what i've learned from my three going through college is the portion of the speech part that's the most important is having your content knowing what you're going to say be able to answer all the questions and then to stand up and talk so it's not just the skill of standing in the room or me and i think that skill and can be c know their classes so i am perfectly willing to go along with the administration's recommendation to remove it as a requirement because it frees up the kids to take other electives for their interest but you know miss mit that was my initial reaction that it would free up that i'm all for that but i have thought about this also i'm changing my position from the first per for spectators i teach college i also teach in a doctoral program and one of the greatest skills i see lacking and i just was proved two weeks ago when i was teaching it is it's not as normal for people to get up and speak anymore for a number of reasons we want to get into why and so forcing students to know their material and to get up in front of the class and speak i think is a critical skill that is lacking at the college level and the only way to get that the college level is to be able to have exposure at the high school level and i agree it can be done in other classes without a doubt but having a dedicated class that does this one of the things i do in philosophy that i teach is i require them all to give a presentation with stand up and give a presentation for that very reason that you have to be able to have a position take the position defend it with facts have an opening statement a conclusion and that skill is long gone as a normal skill in education for a lot of different reasons so i too had that position initially and so i thought about it and then i realized that taking it out the curriculum allows for students not to be necessarily put in position where they have to stand up and  themselves so that's i agree with you but i also thought about it a bit longer and that's why i'm going to vote to keep it and i would say that the thing you want to say is on the two i would just say that the concept of having to get up and do a speech sometimes is the way it has to be because there are some who would never volunteer to get up and would never learn that skill but i still believe that that can be handled in the other disciplines that's where i've and ok i've got to pipe in here because i've been going around and talking to a lot of carrots about this and because i go to a lot of those basketball events barrell different times you can see you can ask the parents  this district in the they can tell you that like they see in the i'd say probably at a lot i wouldn't say more than any other board member but a lot of different events across this district and i've talked to a lot of parents at all different levels of theirs of their children or at every different well all the way from a p to western area and these parents are telling me that their children get of every single at the high school all their classes and they they speak at every single discipline that they have in their classes and i don't believe that the speech class is the only class that they get out before before their class and they give speeches and know not every child of the past is going to college here of course the majority of our students do go to college but not everyone downs and also i just don't believe that it's that mandatory and you know you know those of you that know me in this district know i'm not one that likes to compare myself to other districts other  they're not going to be doing next year so i'm confused as to all of the sudden i want to have peter's township do this is as a mandatory speech class for next college i grew up in state college you know my neighbors were ph d people and i grew up in state college you know come on right i don't think i am i'm sorry i disagree with this with your solution preparation for college so we c burdensome long range plan to add this type of thing to other disciplines say english or to study science is it something that sort of built in already especially leading to kamakura and the those standards with the speaking and the is mandatory to take a speech class where they they were they and the other classes they can take the they are sprinkled in and can take a class where they are taken into speech more  a little bit more lightly where they can take a speech where they're asked to do a speech more how do you say that you know i'm not good with my words because i've had a little bit in where they can to be taken a little bit more lightly and not not immersed eased in where in the speech they're putting in all of the sudden they have to do  speech right away i'm a little bit more concerned about those children that have that inside and speech is where if it's mandatory you have to be put in and yes children like there are going to be  are not going to do well with speech and i am concerned about those children and if it's mandatory i can guarantee that those kids because i was one of those in high school they have to take speech and let me tell you that was the worst class that i had to take in high school and i had friends too and it was awful and i am against this and i good kids in this district that do not want to wrong it's just that i think differently and i think that's the beauty because all students and their parents can make the decision to sign up for speech class so if you as a parent or anybody else feels that this is really a critical skill that taken it tenth grade in that one semester is going to make a huge difference in your child's life and you say to your kid on up fourth and you probably get some flack from the kid right idea but but  but that's the way that's the way it has to go i mean i can see a lot of usefulness in small numbers of speeches being done in various classes in freshman sophomore junior senior where you have sort of a continuum of practicing a focus you know with the graduation project or else you know we can make it a lactose and expand it so we will work around the curriculum can i point out this is a half a credit of twenty six credits right i'm going be very clear i'm going to hold my position i'm going to hold my line in all due respect to those who disagree that's wonderful and the votes going to be what it is but we're talking about a half a credit of twenty six as strongly as i feel about speech i don't think it's going to hurt either way bold i'm karen karen and i'm kristen grainger facilitators of the english department and we've you know heard all of your perspectives and everything we just like to offer our point of view as as english teachers and most of us have taught speech i know that our calling to the can spoke about a month ago on the same subject and so we don't want to repeat everything that she said but more so open this up for opened up a lot of discussion for us in our department as well as throughout high school we've gotten a lot of feedback from colleagues in other disciplines who very much appreciate the actions students receive in speech class and  feel that as classroom course subject changes and teachers and other departments that we're able to cover more ground in our content area and in our curriculum and we're able to do so in a more sophisticated way because we know that our students have the foundations that they need not only to publicly speak but also to research to critically things to organize to persuade to just really articulate themselves so that that doesn't have to be taught in the other classes where course we do our best to incorporate speaking opportunities for students but with all of the other curricular demands that we about earlier creating different levels of speech to meet the needs of the different students and of course that's all in just just in discussion right now all of the english teachers have different opinions on that as well but we're certainly open to making it more available more relevant to as many students as we possibly  well i teach honors english eleven and i have been teaching and peter's township since one nine hundred ninety six and this is my twenty second year teaching i refer to the skills that i know my students have i refer to speech class all of the time and i in for example when we work on our american author research paper and when we are writing  a college level and the l a formatted paper i know that students have research skills because of speech class i know that students know how to format an m l a work cited page i know that they know how to document their sources because speech class really they don't introduce the skills the skills or introduce city younger age but they definitely help me find them so that i don't have to reteach those skills in my english class it's an expectation and what we do is we are able to to address morse more sophisticated issues that are involved in writing a research paper because i know my students have had these basic skills taught to them i also taught the same course at one point so know what she's talking about with that particular project i teach the honors tenth grade course and we do a research paper or a larger one on greek mythology and the same thing statement and i also teach the a p literature and composition in twelfth grade and of course just thinking about them they have ample opportunity to speak in the class because that's what we do we discuss literature most t delivering but how to be an appropriate audience they're introduced to all of the different technologies and changing technologies we work in collaboration with the library and our wonderful librarian and  you know it's going back to what you said earlier yes we definitely touch on these things in english courses but don't have the time to concentrate on them as much and do do individual individualized presentations for twenty eight twenty nine students in an english class that is something that we just don't have the time to do so in english to directly reply to your question we do a lot of group discussion and group presentations but that individualized experience is something that we just don't really have the time  have time to set aside three or four days just speak these kids they do speak very short amounts of time getting of course but then we work up to ten minute speeches towards the have a general question before we start because i did a similar process where you have sort of three documents what we had before right so the one that i had the booklet that i had was one that because i was on the board then i had something from a policy meeting september ninth and so my question to either you or dr french or whomever was there an interim change because a couple of the things that i saw on will propose changes would say something like actually added later on in another section but i feel like you need to be added here because in our our other we have a good ministrat yes but the reality is this section section three limitations speaks to the direct limitations that the superintendent has and i think we're missing greg is trying to put forth here is in specific words without the board knowledge and i think about long's the even if there's a redundancy later on in three which for the clarifies it right on to your point mr anderson i have a procedural problem with that because yeah i do think that the current to robert's rules of order your duty to formalize motion and they cannot just be on the agenda and the assumption that it's going to be voted on without a formal motion to approve no roberts r of order does also state that a recommendation from committee needs no second so just the fact that it's there as a recommendation does constitute a proper motion but i think we can't ignore that procedural order and that's why it needs to stay on as all business because if it's not finished according to the policy we've got to still recognize we do not have to necessarily act but because it comes from committee it doesn't need a second so it can automatically be put on and discussion and for about a quarter  call i have a question and maybe i'm just missing something here but it's sort of it's recommendation one and recommendation three so recommendation one wants to add some language at the end of the first paragraph of section one and then recommendation really wants to also add that language to the third sentence and i counted the sentences there and unless i'm looking at the wrong cop meetings with those policy will be discussed but that doesn't end up making sense it was going to read however there must be at least two weeks between the first and second readings i am in complete agreement but as it is shown on page three of four under under valuations of board procedures the court in my understanding of the way that the red lines are used the underlying word is the is the word being proposed in the stricken word is and we are saying in recommendation five that the word may needs to be changed to shell but the way that is shown on there i see it is made as being out of the shells being taken away completely in favor of shall i don't like the language may underneath that specific policy especially when it comes to develop an annual plan there's no may there that's a shelf but again i'm just questioning the rich recommendation versus the printed  year because i was just looking and i didn't see ever see it happen and every four years is is and i'm not that i'm not challenging it or saying that we should change it but it's my personal opinion that confirming that at you know how do they get appointed i mean obviously i know how that happened but i'm saying and what's the what is before this what what's the ration because that's what i asked mr murray about that just last  it's not going to be a separate document if it's just in there as a or an operating guideline that you can just go to the website and see the policy you know there is that's what i should be doing if i'm going to chair this committee i think that would be helpful if you're going to if you would be willing to make some recommendation and i would be happy to do the duties of the president and vice president are listed actually in the school so that's pretty explicit i have right here as i wanted to know what i was what my duties were as vice president so that's pretty explicit but it would be nice i mean maybe we'll just take it from the school code and put it here so that we had it and that's in one spot i mean that's a we have to go hunting for it well you have to believe only you know being on this board short time that the role of a director changes over the course of he or she's time as a director and so while today i might be chairman of finance next year or the year after i might be something else and while i participate in that having it written down such as as you showed here for the vice chair of the board i think it's absolutely critical and as things change we've got to be able to produce an easy in a readable document where you can just give it to somebody so that they know what their responsibilities are because this is daunting i've got to take this is daunting for a new board member to have the book that i was given with all the policies and then i mean i like you don't mind doing that but still nonetheless it's still a daunting task to have a concise w operations manual or guideline would be so much better and much more efficient to be able to just say here's the section on the president chairman of finance are chairman falls so specifically states that a special meeting has only one purpose is that not redundant and unnecessary to have a hidden there if we are greedy that we're following robert's rules of order i mean the special meeting constitutes of a single agenda item or multiple genda items that are specifically stated and so i just i'm just asking the question is it necessary if we're following the procedures of there a special meeting can only have a single per or a noted multiple purpose that cannot be added to and yet we're making it official language and this general purpose that you're referring to to me that's not only counterintuitive but it goes directly against robert's rules of order so i guess i struggle with where this doesn't that the red line does not but what you said about general purpose seems to me does leave open the opportunity to have a a multiple number of agenda and b it's not a special meeting know i'm not asking to strike i don't have a problem with the language i have a problem with are you are inefficient use of a rule concerning robert's rules and not understanding a explicit billet or be its usage when needed and i have the same problem by the way the public meeting and i mentioned this before you know what a public meeting or in a the board meeting each month and it just seems like we don't follow certain things that what i'm just actually questioned because of that i still appreciate that but i still don't know the line to which we truly are going to hold to that's a good i guess mr berger this is a question for maybe the general board meeting but we have for me we have to determine so i have a comment the second part of that same sentence it says named in the call sent to members or centers actually needs as far as i know we don't get any calls we get like on friday packet that tells us gives us an agenda so why do we board or do we just would period because you do have to have that last part of it for such special me it has to be directly connected to special the meeting contingency in that same section that first small paragraph standing committee meeting smain be called a time by the committee chairperson with proper public notice or when requested to do so by members of the committee and this goes back to a just and i apologize this is a kind of a standing concern i have which means based on our procedure that all nine of our board members are part of every committee it would require five members of the board if the chairperson him or herself did not want to call the meeting for that being to be called if i read that part of it correctly and i guess what i'm driving at even bringing this up is what constitutes the committee definable in these policies as opposed to the procedure which all nine of us attend because i've never had that answered since i've become this board i've asked that question is there a policy which dictates the number of members of a committee and he's standing commit because the practice has been  five members to agree to force the chairperson to call a committee man and i would like i'm not necessarily pitching for a different number i'm pushing for a definable answer the question what constitutes a committee a standing committee of this board regarding exact membership and numbers of members because of the procedure with with which we use which is all come it requires five and so i'm just saying i'm sitting in my seat going ok chairman of finance if i don't think we need a finance committee it's going to require five members of the board to initiate overthrowing my decision we don't need  based on this and to me that's an actionable circumstance in and of itself when you have five of nine members having to call a meeting you already have five that action in and of itself a problem and a decision and really a decision which is already being made because of it whereas if you had three committee members you would not need five of the standing order members so i'm not proposing in fact i don't want to change the language here i'm trying to get clarification as to what constitutes a committee in terms of population in numbers because i have not seen it anywhere and nobody has been able to answer my question i'm not going to be able to answer your question either but i think you have a good point and if we appreciate that because this is not about me personally feeling guilty or not wanting to come it's about the fact that we have a policy before us which will require five members of this nine member board to overthrow our chairs decision to not call a meeting and to me that has a built in problem and it's going to cause controversy because that's in and of itself going to say that there is a voting majority faction that was a different action than the committee chair which they have the right to do but if you have a smaller number as a standing committee number which all members of the committee earlier board can still come to i think this just sets up for truly don't and i'm not trying to be a stickler about this just because i want to keep this meeting going this needs to be answered and i think we can't overweighting it every time i bring it up i get the same answer i don't think we're going to get it answered tonight i mean we can make a decision on what this policy right regarding my year should also say this i don't think we should change the verbiage because if if if down the road a standing i mean a committee of the standing committees membership constitutes three or four or five the policy is fine right but i don't have an issue with it i just simply have an issue with the current makeup and what it can cause if there is a situation that calls for five members asking for a meeting where the chair doesn't and i apologize for pushing this issue but i think you'll find in the long run it will be more beneficial to do this today i would like to just bring up on page two under section two the second third or fourth members requesting the option to participate in a board meeting the electronic communication will be accommodated to the technology limitations of the school district in many ways and i was kind of joking but i wasn't about digital recording because that can be a live stream does a post to it's not as easy as taping can be do it too and i just bring that up here if this is going to be a policy and let's participate in the they have the obligation to make it happen in the best way that they can and i'm sorry to say that not wanting to spend the money is not necessarily not the best way they can know not having the technology is one thing but refusing to spend the money is another thing i think if since we're working on this policy now today with the technology that we have we have to write it the way we can make it happen now and then if when we finish all of these bossiness months it's my whole district from my church's non geographic we go from east coast to west coast i just happen to be the vice president of the east coast and we have all of our meetings we have a screen just like this and all sixteen of our faces are on the board we have a camera with in front of us so the technology a is there and b even with the setup we have here three or four board members faces can be up on that screen and be on a phone line even with the current technology we have now using a computer in that kind of a good beating setting and so that's why i agree with mr bowman that that number five i understand it makes sense but if you have you know a face on the board there or i did one time a church upon i pad and i was on the other end of face time you know if you have that there why does that not in today's modern technological sure and we talked about even i don't disagree with this film i just wonder though if that's necessary for most respected because it simply says if for some reason you are terminated you know the meaning keeps going on and so my point is simply this if you're just going to call in for the actual vote you're going to be a part of the discussion at some point you know so if you if you believe in your commitment to put you into this discussion at the point that we're discussion speech but how are you going to time it so you're specifically there when the speech starts but you come in maybe a minute into it i don't think you have to policy if you come into the disk sure you participate in the discussion whether it's the very beginning or you just can't come in to vote is what you're saying you can't call and say i say no way and then just hang up so at some point by being on the call you'll be a part of the discussion and not necessarily the entire discussion because i'm saying like if i'm at a board near some someone else and i have to step out i might not get the exact timing at the very beginning and i'm going through the whole but i do think it's important to say you can't call in just  but the person i'm talking about the way in which little the firm does it differently because it's just my understanding that if i'm paying a lawyer to be my solicitor and there's an effective change in the federal statute states he better be telling her she better be telling me just as a matter of