now you might as well for them y the book of my argument with judges coronas in carney have heard six months ago welcome to the case judge lynch i just wanted to go over what the now is ruling this court could make without reaching unnecessary issues before i delve into some of the more  procedural posture of this case so since december answers have and have been interposed by the defendants there's a motion to dismiss pending by the state there is discovery has been proceeding so the case is moving along  this at this juncture and in addition court we're looking for is permanent injunction relief full retrofitting of the courthouse those kinds of things when i made this motion in october twenty seventh i was seeking some temporary accessibility items which is separate and apart from the ultimate relief which is for permanent access and that's why i brought these for demonstration purposes there are some pieces of equipment that the city has used and it's on the record is just for demonstration that could be the part where you go to pick a jury there's a six inch that that could easily be remedied by a temporary ramp which cost three hundred dollars and the city has about three thousand three hundred of them since dillon action it's a very easy fix that could be done now i'm not asking consider that at this first stage but the district court should have considered that before denying it isn't that i mean you you said very quickly i know this isn't in the record but is it who is burden is it to present at least some evidence that there are reasonable accommodations possible at this stage because i read the affidavit it makes a very compelling case that there are places in this courthouse that are not accessible but it doesn't say very much about what it would cost or what the fixes are that would be would be doable here absolutely thank you for your question judge lynch with respect to that the plaintiff does have the burden ruling if the district court's reasoning on the decision relied upon that the reasoning that this record held is that i'm seeking relief prematurely before the records being developed and that typically in eighty eight cases this that is a provisional grant of what you would get at the end of the case because it's very compelling showing that you're going to win and that there is irreparable injury going on every day while the situation remains on remedied absolutely a judge will lynch and that was the main reason why this appeal was filed we wouldn't have been here on this appeal if the judges held a hearing if he would have denied it after hearing and found the facts i probably would have been ok with that but to deny within five hours after required for affirmative relief would you distinguish between the kinds of relief you would ask installation of ramps structural changes or just for example maintaining working restrooms are actually accessible actually judge carney thanks for the question there is a yes but i was on trial couple weeks ago us about that but as far as first for the signage the signage it kind of started up everything where i don't know where to go for the bathroom and if you have a courthouse that's not completely accessible data requires you to put up signs that tell you where to go up until i complain about that didn't have the signs so you go to the bathroom you're going to want a sinus and the bathroom is a sort of the second floor the second floor is they have a bathroom that is this wide you can't turn a wheelchair it doesn't comply with e t a so that's what they're using and it hasn't been working so i think she was going say i don't know yet i can conquer because i think the real issue concerns the areas of the courthouse that are plainly inaccessible and that there's at least some reason to think could be inexpensively fixed at least temporarily absolutely but on some of these other things going with respect to the signage this is a bit of a moving target sure because there's some indication that they changed some of the signage and of course by now you know what the excess of all the things are in was actually ones are and so the reparable injury is at least as to you personally for this for the science correct but for the bedrooms and i read an understanding that you had said that it was irregular but which were actually available because they were not kept in working condition at that's correct so that would be but you can't and you can't necessarily tell what it was there every day in which they were all out of commission for the event in december of twenty sixteen i was looking for bathrooms i was only able to check the second fourth and fifth floors i was never able to get further up so i'm not sure if that bathroom was or was not working that day but the time or an hour i had to go back  appear to be a compliant it's and will have to be factual to see if they are but you can get in and you can turn around but not the second floor and i guess maybe we have my rebuttal time but as far as what you're asking not every element of my emotion seek release the request to have temporary access is indeed mandatory relief however the the design a comprehensive plan for permanent structural modification of that ones that when you just withdrew and have to worry about that now but even with respect to the us for something that he was absolutely totally completely not entitled to but also something that  might have been entitle to does the motion get denied properly the motion is properly denied if on its face it doesn't even articulate the proper standard for the motion which is precisely what the district court found here it found that the installation of ramps was it was mandatory relief that required a heightened standard that point if you have that's not what the district court said though the district court said you can't get that period not that he stated the wrong standard from when you can get it right well the district court's what difference it makes whether we affirm without prejudice to his making such a motion or whether we kind of send it back and say you know really look there are serious things here that should be negotiated why why are we why is  inappropriate for i don't know you the city or the state who runs this this shop it's a mix your honor the state runs the and you represent i represent the city ok and could you is that within the authority of your agency to put a liftin on the stairway that we've got the picture of it's a little bit of a mix of both your honor it would be the city who came in to have you have to get together and do this and of course the mayor and the governor will fight over it like the subways and nobody's ever going to put  without the lawsuit but wind can't why isn't there some call it is there any doubt that this is inaccessible to a person in a wheelchair is there any dispute about the merits that at the end of the day this is something that should be fixed well there aren't disputes that there are areas where steps prevent wheelchairs from going but there is a dispute in terms of reasonable accommodations there are other ways for point of to a place where there is the one six inch step and the possibility of a three hundred dollar ramp is that something that is modern reasonable accommodation or at least put it this way i'm going to suggest what the answer should be at the end of the day is it not perfectly reasonable to believe that there has been a showing that that is a situation that there are other vs inexpensive fixes for right well your honor we think that there are fixes that we actually are willing to provide and evolve for to provide point of already such as holding conferences in that one courtroom in the conference room adjacent to it or two to move any of plaintiff's proceedings as we have in the past at the library whoever is totally inaccessible right and the only allegation about the library your honor is that on that one particular d point if we are looking for a place to quietly review his notes and we've previously represented to this court that we can find other places within the courthouse that are accessible for point to be able to quiet in the library itself a public function that is open to the public and to attorneys who are working in the courthouse to use as a library that's that's correct your honor but there's this gentleman can't he has an alleged that he's tried to use it for any purpose other than on that one day to review his notes and to be honest we're willing to work with him to provide him reasonable accommodations to get materials from the library or have meaningful access to it at that doesn't necessarily include installing ramps which as i'd like to point out what would you know i mean if it got to that it seems to me that maybe he should be saying something about how much one of these live devices costs and whether that's a reasonable thing to require it to be to be installed but it's sort of when i look at this i think this is an easy fix you know we had to do it in a part of building where i own an apartment we were required to do it by one of you guys the city or first is that the installation of the ramp itself is not just a question of cost it's a question of who is going to do it there are unionized court officers and the like there are questions whether that would make the stairs then inaccessible to people not in wheelchairs and then there's also the point that we're willing to provide reasonable accommodations and access to the library facilities without necessarily going into the library at and beyond that your honor isn't this exactly the sort of thing that ought to be resolved at a are you know i think that if he hasn't done it yet it's not going to be very hard for mr to mary act put in a few proposals that say you could do this for cheap you could do that for cheap and then we're going to be right back in the same position and of the question is if he does that mean suppose he did that i suppose he said as he said earlier there's a you know you can put a three hundred dollar ramp on the one step that situation you could for a couple of thousand dollars put a lift on this stairway now at that point you would have to respond right that's correct your honor and i think this goes and you have to explain the court officers union won't let you put a lift in there there might be reasons why there are some burden to the governmental entities here but to your broader point that us point if why are we here we kind of have the same question we read the district court's order is not precluding a further application for  and what about the so called mediation program of the score did you go through the you know we did not you're on why it's not on the i don't know that's a question for us really as to why this kid is comes to us we've got have you been properly why can't we simply the for our actions i'm asking you actually whether we shouldn't just there for our decision pending a status report from you and your colleague from the city telling us the result of attorneys office reform or permanent mediation program no your honor and i just want to i want to say a couple points on that just because it may be helpful for all of us here i think that perhaps one of the reasons that this was not referred to can conver made here which was i think the day after we found those an appeal was to move this court as well for a plan or injunction based on basically the same papers plus maybe simplification of those papers which this court did deny in this court also did deny on the motion before there was an opportunity for that to happen that's precisely right here and just to follow up on that there is a difference is there not between the standard that would apply for this court to say and i realize this is part of what mr marianne was at least initially asking this court to do in the appeal for this court to say there should be an injunction we say install the ramps and so on and so forth and what it would take to say the district court applied itself applied the wrong standard by saying you cannot get this kind of relief period and therefore there was error and it should go back for having an answer from the city or state supplementing the pleadings perhaps and then maybe having a hearing so that the relief that is actually on the table in the appeal is different than the relief that the court denied which was a request for a provisional water from this court enjoining certain changes to be made in the structure of the court your honor the relief sought from this court was narrow any objection to that course of action no thank you your honors i don't have any objection to engaging mediation up until this point the defendants government defendants have always suggested look what we want to provide you is the ability to relocate your court proceedings to an client there whoever the buildings management persons on our own whoever runs the equivalent of the of the general services administration for the state of the city or right but they should both be there it should be a meeting at which no one can say oh we don't know whether we can do this that it should be a meeting at which everyone present can say whether or not they can not and i'm going to suggest if i may that we had a status report today is the eighth i would like i think a status report by no later than monday july ninth you've got a month to work this out and you will proceed through the clerk's office to get