the purpose of this evening's public airing is to accept comments on our proposed amendments to the zoning ordinance in the subdivision and land development ordinances as they pertain to proposed conservation residential and mixed residential overlay districts receiving hearing was advertised in the observer reporter on june sixth and june thirteenth hearing notices were placed on the township bulletin boards the website and cable television in addition the property areas were posted and ad was placed in the almanac identifying this meeting council does have the option of taking action on these ordinances this evening the presentation from our staff followed by comments from the audience and from council those audience members who wish to speak need to have signed up on the speakers list  will take residence in the order that they were signed up it will be necessary for you to come forward to one of the two microphones at the front of the stage to address your comments map of property postings a copy of the public notice and mailing list affected property owners and then a letter dated june twentieth two thousand and sixteen from jamie and rebecca hall one of the nine golden  the speaker's eyes but were unable to attend the reason we're here this evening is that in the end of two thousand and thirteen the township adopted a comprehensive plan that was about a   ordinances to implement the conference of plan if you seen in the back there's a map that shows the conference of plans that was adopted so this is the next phase what we're dealing with initially are the residential zoning changes and then there'll be subsequent ordinance changes that will deal with some of the commercial and other nonresidential changes so that's basically why we're here and we're going to start off with a brief presentation explain what the two mike did mention the com plan and the township is in the process of updating examining and subdivision in land development regulations to correspond and be compatible with the recommendations in the plan peters twenty twenty two and for clarification our comprehensive plan is where we take a long look at the township how we developed some of the problems and identify ways in which we want to develop and grow the next ten to twenty years so the process now is us in township working toward updating our zoning and subdivision and land development regulations so just to briefly hit some of the highlights of the plan peters twenty two twenty two during that process seven guiding principles were discussed and adopted and those of the seven principles that the zoning and subdivision land development regulations will work around three principles that we're working toward tonight as part of the two overlay districts is emphasize housing choice and housing diversity stay forever green and build township character and identity during the conference a planned process it was identified that peters is growing with one type of housing large lot single family housing during the play and it was identified that we need to come up with zoning regulations and that allow a more diverse type of housing to to be developed within our community these districts both the c r and m r that you'll hear about tonight the two main goals is to diversify the housing and allow development to happen with less of a footprint less less earth disturbance less tree removal less of a footprint on the land that's being developed all the provisions that are in these two ordinances keep those two goals in min examples of different types of housing that these two districts will allow to occur in the conservation residential district we'll just get to that map this  map of peters and route nineteen here's the center where we're located right in this area now the yellow on the map indicates the conservation residential overlay zones and the bro indicates the mixed residential it's important to understand that these are overlay zones the existing zoning underneath these properties which is ninety nine percent our dash one a single family residential that zoning stays in place if a property is purchased in developed they still have that option of developing under the conventional current zoning of half acre minimum one point two loss for acre  those provisions still stay in place these two districts provide an option an overlay option to develop using the conservation residential option or the mixed residential o important to also know early on in this presentation is that there is no specific development proposals on any of the properties identified either as conservation residential or mixed presidential and this is just a zoning the township updating its zoning laws to to accommodate development if it if it does happen  point i was going to make and the other the next point is is that even with the overlay our existing township land development regulations stay in place for example with the development comes in under conservation or makes residential township requirements for storm water management erosion in sedimentation control traffic i know everyone's concerned about traffic traffic impact these traffic impact studies those all still have to be submitted reviewed and determined that if a development is going to happen all those infrastructure improvements need to be studied and determined this is a map of the township back in zero seven zero eight we did a traffic impact the ordinance and as part of that we studied the entire township under the zoning in place at that time and determined that as the township builds out you see all those dots those are all traffic improvements that the township needs to work with pen and make improvements some of the improvements are done valley brook and nineteen center church and east mcmurry were done but there's twenty five other intersections that need to be improved as the township continues to grow as part of what we did before the overlay districts worse stablished and propose we met with our township traffic engineer we looked at the densities being proposed in the boat the m r n c r and basically it was his opinion traffic planning and design that you know we've we've got it covered it may trigger some additional widening at certain intersections and will address that next year as part of our capital improvement budget this is an existing this is the future land use map that was part of the plan peters twenty twenty two part of what you know the yellow and brown that you saw on the map before was all based on what was determined to be the future land use in the in plan peters twenty twenty two so this is what we used to establish the proposed c r and m r overlay districts this is a map of peter peters township this is our existing zoning map as you can see all this tan area that is on the map is is zone that r r dash one a single family residential zoning district that's our minimum half acre one point two density you can see that the remaining land left to develop in peter's is all zone that that zoning would stay in place these two overlay districts provide an optional way in which those properties can examples of conservation subdivision designs as part of our plan peters twenty twenty two we had our consultant look at this is the just about road area this is an example of the type of development that could potentially occur under the conservation residential overlay as you can see a lot of the land stays undisturbed in for example on this example or cement farm you could even see the farming operation continuing around a potential new development the way to preserve our formally this is just an example of what exactly can occur in a conservation residential neighborhood to the right versus a conventional r dash one a zoning district as you can see the entire property is disturbed it's all part of law or road mostly in under the conservation residential all these provisions that are in this ordinance allow for development to be to occur with some flexible design there's not minimum lot size there's flexible set backs there's narrower part ways in narrower right away there's sidewalks on both sides of the street there's flexible provisions that allow for a particular property to develop  a less with less disturbance and preserves and contributes to the open space within a particular this is an example of a conservation residential neighborhood in chester county over on the eastern side of the state this is a key slide as part of the conservation residential overlay zone the a potential development has options if they want to set aside twenty five percent of the gross site in open space that they can achieve to do a wing in it's an acre if they want to go to thirty percent gross site and set aside as open space they can go to two and a half towing units an acre up to forty percent of the gross site they can get to three dwelling and it's an acre as you see on the left that's our current underlying r one a zoning requirements one point two lots per acre for each new lot that they create that they set aside point zero seven acres of open space in the minimum lot size under current zoning is a half acre in the overlay c r there is no minimum lot size the conservation residential district is provide some flexible development regulations that preserve open space results in less impervious area less public infrastructure for for the township to maintain and it provides for an opportunity for developers to bring different types of housing into a new development in peters this is an example in both the m r in c r there's a specific streetscape that needs to occur in all developments there's a twenty foot wide cart way there sidewalks required on both sides of the street and developers using the overlay can choose to provide on street parking or they can choose a neighborhood street that does not have on street parking that's an example of a street in a conservation residential zone or an m r mixed residential zone that would be the typical view of a streetscape within that development in each of the news zoning district the conservation residential in the mixed residential there's a table that provides for right of way west's setbacks in both the conservation residential and mixed residential the set back from the edge of the right away is fifteenth ie not less than fifteen feet not more than twenty five feet so it's going to bring development up closer to the street  will look different look look like some of the slides that i showed you there there are provisions for side yard setbacks there's provisions for minimum lot with our minimum lot with now under current zoning is one hundred feet under the propose c r the minimum with on a single family detached modest fifty feet those are some of the key areas bulk requirements you can max building height is forty five feet sidewalks are five foot wide sidewalks required on both sides of the street in both overlay the conservation residential overlay zone is home is trying to achieve usable open space and a development can have open space  an active open space area an open space area that preserves natural features woodlands wetlands there's provisions in the proposed overlays that require that the open space set aside in a conservation residential neighborhood be contiguous so that they can create within a particular neighborhood walking areas and into the open space  this is an example of the types of open space that can can occur within a conservation residential or even a mixed residential development this is the type of open space that the ordinance provisions  encourage developers to create within these new conservation residential or mixed residential neighborhoods developers try all the time to set aside didn't land that they can't use and it's the steepest land so there's provisions in there that that guarantee that if they're going to use the conservation residential or mixed residential overl option there's there's provisions in the ordinance that they provide open space that usable and it's not just all the steep rugged areas that they can't build on connectivity street connectivity was a big goals and information that we heard during plan peters twenty twenty two there's provisions in both the overlays that require that  we don't do this we don't want a lot of call to sex we want streets to be can interconnected we want neighborhoods to inner connect we want folks to be able to walk through neighborhoods and walk through areas on sidewalks pointing out that in the conservation residential overlays the ordinance allows for a mix of units seventy percent of the to the homes built in a conservation residential overlay zone have to be single family detached units thirty percent can be attached to single family or attached multifamily this is so i'm moving into the residential mixed residential area  again joint plan peters twenty twenty two diversify our housing provides zoning that allows for him for empty nesters for example to be able to stay in peter's and  something and stay in the community that they've lived in all their life so the mixed residential district takes the place of our existing are two multifamily zoning district  again sidewalks required on both sides of the street and depending on the type and size of a particular development they a developer would have to provide a mix of housing if there's a mixed residential piece of property that is less than fifty dacres and they can they don't we have to provide one type of housing say for example town homes if it's grade twelve fifteen to fifty acres they have to provide two dike types of housing if it's greater than fifty acres then they have to provide three types of housing within a particular development the density of their six mixed presidential zone a district is it's different than a conservation residential overlay were that zoning district m r district is trying to achieve housing diversity there's not a big requirement for open space in the m r district again just like the c r district there's a criteria area ball law with side art setbacks building high sidewalks all that is laid out within the proposed just some highlights from here the utilities shall not be placed under the sidewalk or under the the roadway lighting requirements in all the neighborhoods in the overlay both m r and c r there's a three foot wide planting strip that's just all details on this she again back to the overlay district these these are the proposed districts yellow being the c r the brown being the m r spread throughout the entire township there's approximately in the c r twenty four hundred acres to be included in the overlay in the mixed residential about four hundred fifty acres proposed to be overl i think if i missed any of the key points i think those are the the key point that i wanted the audience and counsel to hear tonight but just open it up before we have the audience comments and turned over to mr lewis if you determine later that you do want to speak he did sign up we still have a sign up sheet up there and they will bring up the latest one half township with this concept of the well what to say the conservation type house office much smaller parcel what happens with the taxing  authority that we would have relative to the open space or the common areas that we lose it how does it become apportioned out to the property is its development and i can't give you one hundred percent answer on occasions where depending on how it's structured it could be deemed tax exempt and other than it's just property said units on so i can't give you a definitive answer on that all that would concern me that if we are looking at hundreds of acres because you have more units that's that's possible yes actual residences but i think the only way that the cars will be tax exempt anyway would be if they were somehow owned by a nonprofit you know they're owned by a condo association they're still going to be taxable so unless it's a nonprofit that ends up owning them which they could in theory transfer title to those open spaces to conserve and seize or some other nonprofit corporation that's how they would become tax exempt they're going to be condominiums are owned by homeowners association they're still going to taxable going to use for forestry purposes so i don't see how we work on or cleaning grain production ok i'm not sure about the acreage but i know that there are a number of properties in the township that are cleaning grain right now and neither of them none of them do agricultural forestry well so let's just say that the county doesn't do a great job of enforcing the clean and green act as they should so i think it's that time goes by we're going to see the county in the state cracking down a little  have a lot of mansions on ten acres with clean and green protection and i think probably those days are going to end in the years coming i apologize that's a little off the point i think people need to have an opportunity before i'd like to make any comments so i'd like to hear what people have to say alright and i and i do want to thank you all for coming i know this is probably for some of you a new meeting but there are a number of people that have been your residence and neighbors have been involved in this process for i'm going to say like the last two years so that this is not a quick draw idea that we've come up with it's emerged from input from the citizens several public hearings workshops open open meetings for dialogue with the residents and this is an effort to embrace the recommendations of that process and reality are first big or that signed up here is and i i'm going to mention both names because i have no idea which of the two of you will come forward but then in kristen taylor opportunity to speak tonight like discuss a few things about this plan in general some specifics as paul some other possible solutions you know one of the things i think is interesting is you know you talk about all the people in the room and you just said it was or was that there's you know this is new to a lot of people this is new to the vast majority the people in the township as i stood back there and listen to people coming in they didn't know what was going on they were asking the questions i didn't know it ten days ago i didn't know i still don't think i really know what's going on but communication is key in any change in this is where i feel that the township has what the residents down on a communications standpoint you know there has been some mentions in the paper things like that you know but the mention for this meeting it was a one half inch by two inch they shoved into the ground with basically the legal size paper stapled to that with what appeared to be an office paper how long do you think that lasted in the land not very long  there's got to be other ways i know that we put it in the paper i would i would bet that many people don't get the observer reporter we may want to realize that many people don't even get the paper and read news online that there's other ways to get out the people you know we we did a you know the township has got a consultant now i'm assuming that you spent a fair amount of money and got a good consultant to do this study but for less than ten thousand dollars you could  every single household in this township to let him know what was going on and that wasn't done something of this magnitude i believe the communications have to be there and it wasn't and still  point you know the other thing that i signed from a communications standpoint that i found very interesting is that yes as of this morning i understand that the overlays don't change the actual zoning on a property so i really appreciate understanding that now but i was also explained to me that if the zoning on the property next to me is the change i got to walk into high schoolers and happen to see it or giant eagle or something like that there is nothing that requires the homeowner to be notified now my understanding is there's a courtesy that something is mailed to the people within five hundred feet it's a courtesy out after this committee that actually make that nortons are part of the law so that anybody who's being affected by a zoning within five hundred feet of their house gets something in the mail to them i don't think that's unreasonable you're doing it now let's just make it so it can't slip through the cracks the peters plants twenty two you know what what is really the plan to be able to traffic i saw a couple dots on the board that's that's not really that that's not helping anybody who travels through this township realizes that the traffic is not manageable at the level we're at now you know i i used to live one hundred eighty miles away from here i lived in peter's township work one hundred eighty miles away and i drove that i took a job seven miles away from my house it takes me a half an hour to get home because of mcmurry road valid brooke road  nineteen those interchanges are ridiculous and you're proposing something here that's going to vastly increase the traffic in the township without any upgrades to the roads i mean putting a stop light or changing that is an upgrade you need water rose you need more i don't maybe in here gentlemen and ma'am but i don't see it you know i got a chance of last week eighty miles happen to be columbus ohio so i'm very familiar with the game hanna and dublin areas let me tell you guys in the morning and at night they're parking all those places are parking all anybody here ever drive through mount lebanon in the morning or an evening great place to drive or is that really what we want to be like to have traffic congestion so bad that you can't move it take a twenty minutes to go three miles to get hannah  dublin have an advantage peters township don't have the multiple interchanges to an interstate we don't have that you have to go down to running through to get to a to get to the interstate the main the main artery travel is very  four way it somewhere is a township it'll take you you know fifteen to twenty minutes just to get to a seventy nine x so without that those those areas are very different than peter's township which is isolated back off  the other things you know that is interesting about dublin to hannah and mount lebanon compared to peter's township it's crime rate and i look at that they both know what the difference between crime great place it's right near this this nice area that go by the guy who got limited brands guess what ten times almost ten times the crime so that density isn't something that these families move here  drive that's a lot that is up there actually if you look at the one in the back that was from two thousand and thirteen it's you know it's out of the yellow now according to the brown that's the area next to us fifteen acres and the old trail community that's been a bend zone for one state law and now it's going to get changed where you can have thirty to forty houses on that you can put a roadway in between two houses that are very close together that you know understand that's not this council's problem but when we got here we have multiple people sign a petition that said they were told specifically that that's what that was own for that's why they bought the house not to have them go the other way and go into a higher density housing you know so there's three thousand acres three thousand acres in this township that you're looking to change  township doesn't have a good track record of controlling the developers the developers do what they want to do they have the money they pay the fines we slap mourner wrist they go on their way you got the guys that continue there's ones there are good ones and there are ones that aren't the ones that aren't they continue to do it in the thing is ever done with the changes there is a lot of information on the internet where you can see different places where the  developers use this to their advantage and they change it and they got a little bit more is that if you if you give the mouse a cookie we're going to ask for a little bit more one of the things i think that you know isn't always an option look at all the ways to do to do this to try and understand what you're trying to do try and see whether a work somewhere don't go three thousand acres to fifty  hundred acres we're seeing a presentation where all the glorious things you could do one three and a half acres you know try it on thirty or fifty see if it works you know you've got brooksville done here where it was smaller things are close to the road took years and they're still tries try something smaller not of this magnitude and i would be remiss if i didn't have this last one i did kind of check out where people live on earth and the majority of the members up here don't have anything next to them like themselves so i think  interesting that i'm not saying you guys have done that on purpose i'm saying that when you look at the majority you don't have that shown up next iraq's so thank you very much  a half mile levin sheet or so i had my neighbor not seen that being posted i would not have known that it was there by the next morning it had already blown off of the stake and was on the ground which was when my husband saw it by the time i got home that afternoon from softball games and birthday parties with my kids it was already gone i did want to find out more about it and i did come down to the offices here at the township on monday and i appreciate the assistance that i received from the township manager and the assistant director of the owning and planning but i i don't know if i was given all of the information i don't know if i asked the right question because i've been told all along that the meeting tonight was for the rezoning of the property and now we're talking about an overlay that it so i'm a little confused about all of that and i just am concerned about again the communication process and i know that if it was in the observer reporter i don't subscribe to the observer reporter so i wouldn't know and as far as the almanac i don't consistently get it i usually get it but it's not always there so i can't even count on that as something and again having you know not actually seeing the paper that had been posted i wouldn't have known the other thing i found when i started talking to the other residents in our neighborhood was that had i not mention to them that this was happening with the exception of my neighbor who saw it being posted no one in our neighborhood knew that that property without for reasoning or the possibility of reasoning i just feel that there should be a little bit better way to get the information out to the community and as far as the public boards or getting on to the web site i don't typically get on there every week and see what's going on and if i don't know to look for the notice join eagle or high schoolers for that what's being addressed what it's affecting and i really would notice it and i've been to high schoolers market within the last week and i have been to giant eagle and i didn't see it but i wasn't looking for it i usually have kids with me i'm in a hurry trying to get what we need done so it's the last thing i'm looking for is what's posted up there unfortunately and but i'm sure i'm probably not the only one the i am concerned about the decision to reason some of these properties and what it will do to our property values as well as the safety issues and if there is a road added to our street i don't know that it can accommodate what we have there and i worry about the safety of the people there i'm a mother of four children and i don't take that very lightly my main concern and our concern with everything that we do our children are always first and when we were moving back to pennsylvania and looking for a community where we wanted to raise our children we could have gone anywhere but we chose peter's township for what peter's township had to offer and we chose our neighborhood based on what we believed was going to be there and what we were told was going to be there and  what happens to this lot near us would directly affect us and would directly affect what we expected and the lifestyle we expected for our children and for their future and i don't want to risk bats and i don't think i'm alone we moved here for a safe community a rural type of community and for the excellent schools and i hope that that will continue and i'm just asking to have to think about all want to speak a little bit with regard to the announcements because this council was part of a decision that said do we really need mail something to every resin in this community the staff brought that to this council we talked about it it's been a process that's been ongoing for over two years if we failed to satisfy the fact that you were not individually contact i think i will children the decision that came from this council we decided not to mail every individual so black college i was not necessarily but we'll just make that as a statement of fact next resident the nation came here tonight one of the things is your chance we could get the first overlay or the first topics of discussion there is a think about the preserving and preserving the character appears timeship i just think it is a it's a problem mr taylor i think stole my notes before me with the traffic in the congestion to cause i also was told that i could do whatever i whatever i chose to do on my acreage and that's really not the the case i think he contradicted yourself in the bill a little bit of the way you said it  twenty five to thirty or fifty acres as i recall i had to use two types of zoning i had to do one of the drawings show you had to have two types of  if you have a certain amount of acreage depending on the size of the property you have to have different housing choices within that neighborhood previously we had talked that i could do either type of zoning whatever i chose to do on my acreage now you're telling me i have to do two types knows i have the perpetrator i have the acreage it falls into the two type categories so how am i going to build a stadium with a patio next to it people have a lot of money invested their properties i don't think they're going to look kindly on this drastic change right next to what they just invested their life savings  one single family we have the option of having some thirty percent of it not single fram ok by misunderstanding and i call just as i thought i would have to go with two types of planning again this is all new to many of us here i haven't had a time to digest it fully but i will tell you currently i'm working on a project a small project right on the line the timeship line between peter's a singular where they have moved a lot down to an eighty five the laws are eighty five foot wide you have a house it's at least fifty foot you have a one car driveway and everybody has two or three cars they're all parked out on the street because human nature is easier they don't want to happen move a car another car and it's like dog ball trying to drive through this neighborhood and it gets me frustrated every time i try to go there it's not what most of the people move died here for the world atmosphere and i think you're trying to create i know it's a noble intention but you're you're going to end up with almost a city neighborhood if you g m enough house in a small space you talk about a footprint as it does the construction footprint yes a smaller but that's a temporary situation i think you're going to have with a safety issue because every day i see cars parked on the streets kids can run after them they're always parked on situation so i guess i think i just don't know anything but everything that i just coffee and be careful what you wish for you you might be not getting what you want and i apologize for my if i look into it further next name on the list here is christopher  however when you look at this map first of all you don't have honey ridge in brown and i would think that that should be so when you add honey ridge and brown now you have the property behind me on the louisiana then you've got further down sugarcane i'm more frontage all along there than further up the road you've got another big area along sugar camp than right up brook wood which it looks like it's a long distance and it's not it's right beside the church there there's another multiracial family units and you went over those descriptions of what's going in on those properties very quickly and those are the in those the areas that are going to be impacted the most severely and and the most dense housing so i don't think you would she'd what you said you want to do with display and you said you want diversity you put it all in one area you put it all right there you've already got quail run you're putting two more developments right along sugar camp and right up required you've created a little zone there that nobody's one going to want to be in you're going to ruin our property values that's our life savings to i also have a concern that this is being billed as gee we're going to build this so the senior citizens in this community can go and live in th and i don't ever see myself selling my property and buying one of those kind of you know that's not financially where we are in our old age so i don't understand whether it's you know we just did something wrong or i'm not seeing this but i don't see this happening with the senior citizens that i know in this township that they're going to sell and buy one of these you know big expensive properties here again i have a concern already about the infrastructure i know that that's been addressed however living on the wheezy annulling you either have to go to the end of louisiana and you go out on the sugar camp or you have to go out marie and you on to be bout with the development that's happened in venetia already the last five years it was always dangerous pulling out on sugar camp if you were going to make a left hand turn now it's dangerous either way whether you're pulling out of louisiana or trying to get on to louisiana it's terrible and now you're talking about adding all these high density housing on sugar camp road how are you going to do that safely the same thing we've got of the other end if we go out the other way ok we go out and be bout with all the development that's happened in the ne shell which used to all be form now all that  those big homes and all everybody has to three vehicles be bought road we can't pull up there either i'm very concerned i again i appreciate your goal i do think it's noble however right in the same area and i don't think that's fair take some of that brown stuff and put it down here move it around i don't think you did a good job of distributing if your goal was really diversity i just don't i also have a concern about the communication i think it's disrespectful that you did not send notification to adjacent property owners this is our life investment this is money that i some day i'm going to have to rely on not fund money losing money living money to sell my property and live on the money and now you're going to put this behind my house and it will not make my property value go up on sure that you'll be right in my backyard there's a floodplain back there there's a creek back there i don't even know how you can propose something like that on that particular parcel part of it where i live it just doesn't make any sense it just is not the the lots of the right behind our house i believe there was an attempt to subdivide them a few years ago and you turned it down because you said it was not safe to pull out on the sugar camp road at that point and that's long before all this other building that's occurred in the township so why all of a sudden mill it's ok that we couldn't subdivide that because it unsafe to put one or two lots on now we're going to put multifamily homes it does not make any sense to me at all i have a concern also about what's going on in this township generally as far as the infrastructure we're building more and more and more and more yet i don't see things like our fire and our ambulance our police force those things need to keep pace and they need to be in these plants i also going back to the comment about the senior citizen and saying that's you know that's what's driving part of this decision to look at this high density housing you know if we're concerned about so concerned about our senior citizens in this township we just had a big brouhaha over meals on wheels up there who serves two hundred senior citizens a meal monday through friday if it's so important to serve the senior citizens in this community where were you so i don't think it's fair to pin this on senior citizens if you did i wish you had asked me or my husband i also understand i was told this i don't know if this is correct that the survey avenge ridgeley went up to ten percent of this population i don't know how long ago that survey went out but i think with the tremendous changes that have gone on in this township as of late in the last five years you need to do a new survey and get some new opinions because there have been venetia has completely changed in the last five years and we have not kept up with what the needs are in that community and and i don't again diversity great spread it around you put it all in sugar camp that's not right and the road i live on are you planning on bringing that the plan out on to louisiana you can't pass two cars by there you can't do it and you going to put all that high density housing on there are you going to allow that traffic to come up on to our road the way it is it's a disaster though i'm sorry i oppose th no one knows what you're proposing because we can't find our h and i'd like to ask everybody on council is any one are you going to be affected by a town house up against your property anybody on a council there proposing to put it down fifteen feet off by a yard fifty feet that's about it for me to you i mean i've lived there my whole life that's not fair and there's one part venetian over the past twenty years we've been involved in residential development new residential homes in western peering during that same twenty year period of time we've been involved in ten residential subdivisions in neighboring townships those ten residential subdivisions account for over thirteen hundred new homes are latest seventy five years old almost the entire population they won the subdivision we're just completing the average sell price is four hundred fifty thousand dollars our current patio home subdivision in a neighboring town chip sales are presently averaging about five hundred twenty five thousand dollars again patio homes this is a part of the market and to speak into a part of the market that this legislation proposed conservation and m r would permit that cannot be served under the current zoning to give a comparison the at the same time we've developed thirteen hundred homes in the neighboring townships over the past twenty years our involvement in peter's timeship has been limited to three small subdivisions with less than a hundred homes and the reason is we have just not found properties with the enabling zoning to permit the development of these properties years in and they are well done and with the major in points that we believe that the proposals that are in five year this evening does promote smart growth does promote less the less total disturbance of property certainly preserves a significant amount of open space and provides the most important thing for many different housing good evening i'm lisa mclaughlin had been a resident of peter's township for twenty eight years and i raised two children in a school and a full time realtor for the past twenty two years i was a committee member for the comprehensive lansley and it's being proposed here this evening i'm also married to a custom builder developer and well that works in peter's i had my speech pretty well planned out for this evening and there's been a few things that have been discussed up to this point that i feel in all fairness should be addressed i'm in a different position than many of you but yet i'm in the same position as many of you i had children it was important to me just like when to be that has children regarding the safety of these children regarding the growth of our community regarding the amenities that our community offers but i was so well prepared for this task and at times it seemed that far more knowledgeable he was far more knowledgeable and his staffers are more knowledgeable than the expensive consultants that we hired but i have to address a couple of other things here with regards to notification i will tell each one of you that was a huge struggle we had so many meetings with our committee members and with township council and still uncertain was a county with staff and trying to make sure that we reached as many residents as we possibly could we did we posted things in the paper we posted we did send some mailers out and again with as many as we would send out we would have not a whole lot of people that would show up i mean it was just impossible to reach everyone so for us not being able to re apologize for that but we can't change the changes that are being proposed are truly the result and i can't kid i am not kidding you many many many needing many meetings with focus groups we had to get business owners together who have business township because they are affected as well we had a get together with developers builders real estate agents residen we try to touch as many people as we possibly could and i can tell you i mean we couldn't touch everybody but we tried i will say that farmers is well the  township itself for me is an even is a wonderful wonderful place to sell we have so many beautiful things going on in our township we have entrepreneurs that the trail parks the beautiful half acre lots that we have but then we also have some other diversity that started to come into the township i had a ninety year old girlfriend who lived in quail run who needed a different type of housing a quick move forward a lot of these people that are trying to buy patio homes just because they may be at four hundred five hundred thousand trust me it's just as important to those homeowners every dollar that they spend the diversity in housing is critical for our township to grow but it's not just about our township growing each one of our sellers each one of you could be a potential seller it's dealing with some of the issues that are sellers are dealing with right now they're losing buyers to other townships because of certain things that we don't have that other  and some of the developments that mr bode was talking about i can tell you i took township residents to those developments because we didn't have them in peter's township and they didn't want to go to another device another town to they wanted to stay here i just hope that you understand that there has been a lot of thought that has gone into all of this and everyone is trying to trying to consider the needs of everyone go this way as well as lisa said we spent many many hours in dwelling on the kinds of ideas at the residence proposed and again i would reiterate what lisa said with my apologies that you were not informed by mail directly there were enough people i will tell you who did come and who did offer their opinions and their opinions regarding the diversity of housing was not only relate we not only waited to senior citizens they were also related to younger folks who didn't have enough money to really buy into peter's township as it is now with a large home they were just getting started in their careers but did not want to move out of peter's township and leave the place where they grew up so that was another point it was just not senior citizens it was other folks as well this is a plan you know in a plan is never perfect and there are a number ways that you can make a plan for a community and i can understand and appreciate very much some of the comments that were made tonight but this is a plan that did take into account the kinds of things that were presented to us to consider by members of the community if there are more things that should be considered i suppose the township and council will have to debate them i can only say that as far as a plan it's a vision it's a vision for the future of peter's township and for the future peter sounds of residen however the vision can't be seen to fruition with respect to how it has been developed and designed that would be a problem therefore i would encourage counsel if the plan is if the plan is approved to bind a way for each developer who is interested in developing any of these areas to identify specifically in writing how it is that their development is going to absolutely coincide with a vision for peter's township and if they can't then that's something that i think council has to take into consideration before going away with any permits i don't know of any that's legal i'm just speaking as a resident  and the second thing i would ask is that as a developers progress through the development of whatever area they're doing that someone i think that probably mr zak and his group keeps tabs on what they're doing so that indeed the vision that they initially proposed as a developer in town coinciding with this plan is carried out thank you people who run this committee who came up with this diversity play and who lives near those areas who was on that committee that lives near those brown areas ma'am we said i don't believe i don't believe i live along any of those areas but i can tell you based on the planning that we did i would move it i would i would move and i'm going to speak up to i was a participant in this committee effort it took a lot of time to be a regular council meeting council duties as well as participating in this program throughout the program i think we were disappointed with the participation of those people that were sent invitations to come and talk there were never were as well attended is so but we never focused on any particular property other than the concept of how these properties could develop and i'm thinking that that's something that we're missing in this meeting it's not been communicated we are attempting to look it no i shouldn't say we i should say i in my process of being involved in this have looked at what i have seen occur in the development of this township and i've been this appointed by sure i've been disappointed by the traffic our inability to have  you know four and five lane roads and east west corridor traffic flow i've been disappointed with watching all the farmland in the trees in the wooded area get all cut down and regraded and stick aus on top of hillsides with backyards that either grow straight up or straight down we've tried to accommodate some of that was the suggestion of reducing the front yard setbacks and i have been happy with what i have seen as a result of those types of things but in the exploring what was presented to us i think very clearly the vision of this group that put this program together was to make peter's township a better we were looking at how to preserve what we as that committee felt were the values of this community and that's a semi rural residential we wanted to continue to see trees we wanted to continue to see farmland and we wanted to continue to be available to a cross section of the population  that half million and million dollar homes that are going up are not available to us and that would be the sense of diversity so i'll get off my soapbox i appreciate your comments i'm sorry that some of these people that are here and feel very vocally focused on a particular parcel are doing just that because that parcel isn't being developed here tonight that process may never occur or when it does occur you know there will be meetings there will be discussions will be reviewed by the planning commission of the public hearings and things of that nature that will tell you the details that you're trying to reach for tonight that maybe two years from now it may be twenty years in that with all this is setting up as a concept let me get off my our way we're on round to the listener susan parker hi i live on mcallen road which is that yellow area that to the right of the largest mixed residential yes that there are some a couple comments one when we moved into the township about sixteen years ago we were surrounded by farmland tracks grew corn all around us and now we are surrounded by the hartland subdivision chadwick ests and one of the problems that i have is that while that subdivision was built a lot of the debris for building those properties was blown on our property the open space that is now part of that subdivision is not maintained so i've had some problems with subdivisions going into the rural areas of the community that one of the biggest problems that i have is that whole yellow segment on the common road does not have public seward's and one of the stipulations of designing ordinance is that any developments that take place must have public sewage so why are going to be why are we going to be constrained by stipulation that we have absolutely no control and i want you to consider that as you don't our property can tell us what we can and cannot do with our properties that some things we don't have control over that need to be rectified before some of the zoning ordinances are put into place i'm sorry i'm not understanding your statement is not currently seward but an expectation would be to be c i can tell you i've never been so well informed or had the opportunity to avail myself of information from the town that i've never seen before if you are computer savvy and you follow the calendar for your school ovens you beyond basically the same page that pete is township has all their information and it's available every meeting everything that went on videos so and something i found amazing is that mr zucker went door to door in some areas and contacted people directly and asked them what their opinion was so i've never seen any relationship like this and other places that i've lived in it's remarkable and i plan to retire here now i heard some it sounds like to me there there's a little bit of misunderstanding in some of the people here as the difference between the conservation of the ah overlay and the mix when you look at chadwick in status you see as the young lady described exactly what i see i see the space broken up with no real plan which is you never get in an r one if you have fifty acres of land under the current zoning you theoretically can put fifty four maybe fifty six houses but this space the pawed so the land is to vailable to the tax a lot owner it doesn't give a sense of community with their offering here i think is brilliant with this old boy if somebody with fifty acres wants to build under the o you have to set it and you want to increase the density from the current zoning which is one point two per acre you even you could you go you have to set aside thirty forty percent of your property to open space but that's got to be continuous and in doing so if you put trails in you keep your natural water courses in place basically anybody with water thirty five acres of land that has any natural resources is creating a pocket if forced to now they keep they don't all this process that's gone on for years for years all of these things have been addressed but they can't bring i and make people knowledgeable about it unless you follow the process as it was happening a viral call there were five workshops in regard to these potential and people avail themselves of coming through those meetings they would have known and they would have seen this process some of the comments i hear are sound like there is confusion between the conservation all the way and the mix residential that's understandable and you have to sympathize with those people because without knowledge you can understand what the real impact is so in regard to the issue of density if you i have a small piece of land on the cologne if you set aside says he needs is for a park you get back the ability to just build things closer you create more tax on you creates the revenue base but you also shorten your streets so it's less of a burden on the town for maintenance and you crease attack space you want to many of these you want the infrastructure that you talk about that you need to service the growing community they're providing that for you but by thinking ahead in providing a base that gives you more taxpayers in a smaller space less to maintain but in giving you pots that have forced on the developer to put in i think it's brilliant and i commend you on your your whole p i can tell that i've never met the man because i couldn't come close to pronouncing his name but thank you very much good evening my name is steven victor i'm a landscape architect and at the privilege of doing a lot of the land planning not only in peter's but to her last forty some years the answer maybe some of the questions that people have raised response played and what the county is supposed to do is take it one hundred acre parcel and it's tax one hundred dollars and if the you create a hundred lots there's both at the county takes that value of one dollar per lot for hundred lots so it's the value of the total property and assesses it against the new lots and therefore the value for the open space is zero it is not tactics empty it's just not taxed because the value that have has been assessed to the property that is there in addition as a pointed out by others you're going to get more houses that equal or higher value so your overall revenue is going to be greater with the type of development you're proposing here in your c r and your m r when i go back and look at the experience that i've had and i've been many public hearings and i've heard neighbors say over and over oh my property value is going to go down i have never seen that happen yes you might have a different type of housing that is next door to you but anybody in the real estate or anybody's been around long enough will tell you it doesn't definitive the value of your own personal property or aig nest that's there is still safe and whether it's developed as a single family or town houses next to them i think the more important thing is the quality of that and the ordinance that you put in place or going to be putting in place here has significant rules and regulations and design standards that will lead you to achieve high quality development for the another term that was used tonight was senior citizens i'm old enough to be a senior citizen but it's an offensive term you really should refer to the people who are in the housing market in this fifty five to seventy five were empty nesters were tired of living on a half acre a one acre lot and we want to have something smaller so that we can turn the key and go to florida you know during those winter months we don't want to mow the lawn we want to have common maintenance and it's that empty nester buyer who are the people in this township who are having to leave the township to go to norse remains developments that you really need to keep in here and as this ordinance provides that housing opportunity last is they talk about density six per acre is not high density we want to talk about high density let's talk about forty or fifty units per acre in which we do design developments like that but when you're talking about the c r district which is the majority of that the high yellow area you're talking about it in city that's going from one point two by right underneath there to as little as two or three and density of two in three is not high density and six even for the brown area the majority of the brown areas are very small parcels i'm sure somebody up here could tell these people why the colors got placed on those parcels but i suspect is that they were there because they were vacant you're not going to you're not putting overlay over somebodies lock that's already developed so the theory of why it's brown in those areas is because that was making ground thank you where there is an address i try and use it because i can probably pronounce it better than i can any of the names but it did evening thanks for giving me the chance to talk i'm probably the newest member of peter's township here tonight we just close on our house in april and moved in and i just one letter by now the reason we picked it here in this area is because peters is a very unique place and is a wonderful place and it does have that feel that i think a lot of the citizens are really defending here tonight and i think that's why you see some of the passion is because it is such a unique place minus the traffic the traffic frankly is ridiculous and it's i'm not pointing fingers at anybody you know i'm new to the area and the infrastructure here is in some areas of the country they would consider it unsafe and you know what these winding roads and blind spots and hills and you know the people that live here and grew up here you can to get accustomed to it i think you get a condition to it and maybe you don't  and i think this plan that has some really amazing attributes some of the other points that were made some really creative things built into the plan but you know frankly you know i'm i'm a professional engineer i've done development work build homes and i've frankly never seen anything like this where a master plan that was you know the entire city is sixty five seventy percent built is now going to change and go from a low density to a high density without that having been the master plan to begin with but that's backwards to what i' conceptually i understand there's a lot of drivers for it and you know a lot of really smart people pay a lot of thought into it but just conceptually i'd urge you to think about if everybody had known when they built their houses on these other lots that this was a plan that's one thing and i think that's fair getting access to one of these other two types of zoning properties through lower density neighborhoods is not something that i've seen in other cities unless it was part of a master plan and then i think that is somewhat limited you know you don't have high traffic thoroughfares through single family you know low density type neighborhoods it would be access to a main thoroughfare or a main artery or something like that you know so that you're not driving through existing neighborhoods to to get to those duplexes or town homes or apartment type to sell it and so i don't need you to consider that certainly the folks that of land i feel for those people i wouldn't want to be those people that are going to experience that that that seems backward you should have to access that property from a different direction you know maybe t another plot of land as part of a master development for that area so i would urge you to consider access into these areas i certainly think the roads need to be widened i get the fact that we live in the mountains and the hills is very difficult to do that in deal with the series of i think for the rest of the people to talk tonight you're going to hear more about property values safety traffic and i would there are some comments made by a realtor earlier that i would strongly disagree with i do think this is an incredibly healthy real estate market i had a heck of a time finding a house here houses don't stay on the market for more than about sixty days i don't care how much they cost it's crazy these houses get sold in world record time and it's because of the people over here and they don't leave and i think it's all but frankly had i'd known that the density if my real estate agent had told me this plane was in place in the density was going to increase in the traffic was going to get worse i never would have bought my house i just closed on two months ago even though i love it so thank you jeff i i think i'm detecting that we have a we've got an issue of the perceived closer proximity of house to house or unit to unit as an increase in density and that's exactly the opposite of what we're trying to achieve we're trying to place units closer together to limit the amount of disturbed area allow that much more open space that's true but we're going from a possible one point two under current zoning to possibly three units an acre in the c r and that's not a big jump like mr victor said we're not talking high density it's in the m r we're going from seven units in acre to six so we're dropping density there and in the c r we are going from one point two to possibly three if they set aside forty percent is open space name when i got here i wasn't prepared to talk but i could tell you this in the jacket the comment you made about the comment you made about being basically unapologetic for the lack of communication i thought was a kind of move me to speak i don't know how it was such a problem i get that in peter's magazine regularly that seems to find me i can understand something this important how you couldn't take time to get a forever stamp and a sheet of paper and send it to every country particularly the ones who were most affected somebody said someone was going door to door hot that apparently they missed they missed everybody that lives in the areas that are factored in from a vision standpoint this just looks like the map where you took all the i moved here to get away i wanted some space if you want sidewalks and you want your neighbor to be able to look in your kitchen window there's plenty of places to do that right i mean there's a lot of places to do that i don't understand where we're  traffic that comes up my street and it doesn't seem to bother any of you because i believe none of you raise your hand when you're asked multiple times if you had so one of these potentially result was next and you don't correct most political politically motivated strategies here's what could happen here's the all the pictures you show none of those unless and believe me i'm sorry i'm uninformed i don't know the technical terminology all i know that these situations include multifamily up to twenty four units a building i didn't see a picture of that you brought up chester county why do you bring up the view that that's like the other side of the world not the other side of the state the density there is completely different than it is here so twenty four units a building to me if you could be forty five feet high that's a big building that's a bit and that could happen right you're talking about all this other stuff that looks really neat right like like what they have over in the lower hill right isn't it you get it i don't want to hear that's why i moved here i think that's why most of these people moved here but now you're thank let's go back to the communication being a struggle i believe those works and i just want to correct this because one gentleman point out there are all these workshops minor staining from listening here the workshops are only for people that were on the committee  i'm not a software engineer but i think i know my way around a website and it was not obvious to me i was in ignoring it you see i mean i just find out about this i think when the tailors made via a sheet of paper with th this was going to go on and i run in my neighborhood four times a week and i never saw posting i run right past that lot at the bottom of golden eagle thats the big one there i and this map to me is completely useless i mean it's it's like a it's a how i'm going to be impacted by this and i mean to me this is unacceptable this is doing something so you want there's an outcome that you want and save me the aspirational speech i understand that you're trying to get you're trying to increase a tax base i find it funny though and interesting this happened after the reassessment because i don't think you're going to are you going to give the people that are going to be inconvenienced the current residents  are you going to give us are you going to reduce our taxes i don't think so that all of this all happened now after the reassessment so now i have a property value on my home that's much higher and i guarantee you once you start tapping you tell me that he's never seen it right that the guy from the weekly coincidental who comes in here to make his money but then goes back to so weakly he said he's never seen it happen ok i'll take his word for it i bought so a lot of homes i know what what people are interested in and i have refinement especially when i'm moving away from the city i would find many people that want to move somewhere where they can have more congestion that's all i have to say th comprehensive plan deals with a lot of other issues right now we're focusing on this one portion which is the the residential issues but another part of the conference of plan was to look at areas of where to put other types of like commercial development spoke specifically neighborhood type commercial so that we can diversify where people can go to drive to get to grocery stores that type of stuff and  also part of it deals with transportation planning and trying to identified areas in need to be improved is there a grocery store anywhere around here there's no amenity that i'm going to be able to take advantage of that it's just going to be a lot more houses it's not in this part of the plan right now all we're dealing with is the residential portion the rest of the ordinance are still being prepared and that will be coming up shortly the next name i have is michelle lee churchill  want to develop it prior to this becoming a fact how will that delay your development in the next three years while we wait for this to take place i'm not sure i follow the second part of the question well if you have fifteen acres in peters township and you want to develop it tomorrow or in the next six months that way and probably areas that were affected they all did receive a letter yes when was that letter received about three or four weeks ago i don't think everyone d you can i have five more names so if you you're not yet you're not next ye know ira i respect that fact i'm just saying we have five that have already signed up so david extended period of time i think is a part of that decision it's worth giving you some background my wife and i moved to pittsburgh about a decade ago when i started working as an attorney again algates downtown we were looking for a good balance of a place where you can raise a family and an easy to commute to the city and chose not love and love the area and wanted to live there wonder is a family there we spent almost a decade there had our first son there when the process of trying to have a second child when we realized we did not want to raise a family there was none of space i couldn't play in the yard with my children like most people mount lebanon i could yell out my front door to my neighbor and have a conversation with them without ever leaving the front stoop but it was not a conducive environment where children can play safe near the roads have yards to play and play ball where you can trust your kids to go play in the neighbors your yard to get two doors down without being scared about her safety we started looking for distance luckily for us it actually didn't fell through didn't work out when we finally did find a place that is perfect for years house built in one nine hundred ninety s in peter townsend peters township which was an ideal area for us it provided all the amenities that we wanted space for three laws itself against all the park and i can tell you as a fact that based on the assessments that were done on my house and the reassessment that the township did for my tax base that i paid a high premium to buy that property because i had a baseball field can play ball with my kid in my back and i have a soccer field regular my kids run around and play they don't have to cross the street they walk across the back yard so i apologize because i did get here late and i didn't hear something earlier comments i'd like to ask a couple questions to make sure i'm not too presumptuous with anything i say first of like ask with a presentation be put available on the township website so anyone can look through it and like to request that you've done it that's something that can be done in the next couple days second when i came in here there are two maps and again i moved conservation residential which i see is an underlying current zoning district or one a and i would like to ask is the baseball field the soccer field or the playground zone or  currently zone or one day who owns the land because the school district township leases the township leases why would a park played a board that i can attest to this on live there their baseball games going on almost every day sometimes to the point it's almost a nuisance but it's something to live with there is a park or games going every day there are kids always on the playground in fact when i got my first notice about this knowing is when i got back from vacation yesterday and i saw the zoning post sitting at the front to going  road park and you know it's tied to three balloons for a graduation party at the pavilion because that pavilion is used on a weekly basis for birthday parties graduation parties family get togethers soccer field where multiple teams practice on the field at the same time a field that a colleague of mine and someone else in this room actually coaches teams on that field where his children play saw how does it better a community like peter's council where people come to enjoy green spaces to raise a family how does it better them to convert a small neighborhood park to residential it be reverted back to green space for the better of the community and i make a formal request that i like and i didn't get a notification maybe because i don't own them grow park i don't give a notification about the zoning was fortune up to see the sign and reach out to somebody who was here so i got here as quick as i could to find out about it and i would like a response you have my address and like a letter responding with the commission's decision is a when you will hold a hearing on that and they'll be discussing is not like to be present and i would like to make sure everybody else in the town that you're trying to improve the township by converting parks to tell those i mean that's worse than not let them it's worse than normal david i i think you picked out a particularly unique parcel and the fact that that was the site of a former school and is owned by the school district and is not the township itself is not the you know the caretaker of that property per se we have an arrangement with the school district that we've been able to use it for a park i don't know that i know in perpetuity how long it goes but i thought it last time was a ten year lease that we had on the facility and we've renewed it is that still in essence the status so we are leasing it from the school district i don't know that we could stop the school district from selling it you know outside of the lease agreement that we have but i i respect what you're saying and it's certainly not our intent to do to do anything trying to destroy the  ok well yes i think that it would it actually highlights is the planning that went behind this that it needs to be more carefully done in the individual spaces need to be considered in their context in not just an overall plan like this that affects everybody differently  uniquely people need that opportunity to be able to address the specific issues in each property because i would add even though you mentioned it's a unique situation there are three speed homes three in front row cork two in front of the next yellow parcel which i think  do over yellow parcel which is the form it's five speed humps on that road the more population you add there that's just more speed it's coming through more cars and that's going to create more safety issues you also have an issue then in that and the lower told me about how his house was flooded out three or four years ago if you build on that land and take away the trees in the natural environment you troll that run off i hate to see what it's going to do to the properties unfortunate i guess it's only three of us they can speak up about it but there are three properties of the damage and i'm quite certain that i'm not going to get somebody else i think apple pointed out the reassessed value of my home which i paid a premium on i don't i'd like to see how that's going to be affected when the value would be significantly decreased when  the assessment of my house specifically said there was no comparable that could be used in the in the peters township that had an amenity such as the park next to it and i think that is a very new for people to say it's not going to decrease the value of your home that's absurd some homes maybe not but homes like mine i guarantee you anybody that bought my home would do the same thing i did and they would have paid a premium to have access to that park with the children so as i request that i did i'd strongly encourage the reconsider the zoning of that parcel and i would like an update of knowing when to be a further discussion of what that determination is  my name's joe mclaughlin i live in cagney drive which is one of those areas marked there and i want to thank the township and staff because i was notified as i was supposed to be in as you guys know you've probably seen me at too many meetings and i'm not really very computer savvy but i was able to follow each and every meeting walking away for a few years and make as many as i could along with a lot of other township residents in a i think you're headed in the right direction thank you my name is mark where i live on king richard drive i moved to the township a little over forty years ago from dormant mount lebanon so i know high density and we moved here to the great open spaces a minimum of a half acre and we've enjoyed it there were about seven thousand people who lived in the crowd when we moved in what's a population up to twenty two if we go to add six thousand more people to our roads by doing this because that really make a lot of sense personally i don't think so i don't want to widen the roads i love the roads they're fun people on your toes and i am one of those senior citizens who isn't a senior citizen i'm an empty nester but they keep moving in and out so i add a couple other questions  if we if we get these parks that we're talking about a nice fifteen acre park who's going to maintain that well the intent would be that that would be the responsibility of the property owner group that well that's the intent but is that going to happen it's a great place for kids to go drink and get drugs well we would certainly would require any time a developer builds a develop a development like that that the open space would be subject to a homeowner's association and homeowners association would be responsible certainly the township will not accept responsibility for those parcels as currently now we attempt not to accept responsibility for open parcels because we have too many of them and what we have now with the is in a sense cookie cutter developments that exist under the current our one zoning is that developers are required to set aside point zero seven acres of open space for every one lot that they put in the development and what the developers do and what any developer is going to do obviously because their goal is to maximize income is the open space we end up getting or the unusable clips the unusable values of the swamps and whatnots which up to now we get stuck with and we're forced to maintain a taxpayers are forced to bear the burden now under this plan the newer the open spaces in these developments because they would be larger parcels would be usable and why that while they may be certainly would be used mostly by the residents of those developments they would sub they would be subject to a declaration of covenants and would be the responsibility of the homeowners association in those maintenance costs would be borne by the respective property owners in the development and that's going to be in this plan absolutely ok we would require that ad correct me if i'm wrong we would require that as a condition of any subdivision under this new plan that all the developments have homeowners associations and that they would assume the responsibilities for those common areas and they may they may be there will be there be open spaces or common areas depending on whether it's a condominium or whether if a simple residential development if it was a condominium obviously it would be common elements and would fall under the condominium declaration and where in here do you see the twenty four apartment buildings or whatever they're going to be there with forty some people i don't see them anywhere but i mean i think the key thing here i think what everyone needs to understand is that this does not change designing with this does not eliminate the we all understand idea and you know we can't speculate on what developers going to bring and we can speculate on why why do we need that portion of that of this in there was because we're trying to create diversity and put another six thousand people one but we don't we don't need and we don't know what the end result is going to be and we don't know what about if you're right right now we  we plan to take it that thirty six thousand people we don't know that is going to go to thirty six thousand those are estimates that's my contract that is an estimate based on all of these parcels were developed under the c r or the m r does that's where thirty six thousand comes right that would presume that there's not going to be any single r one development going forward in this town that's how you dealt with a number of those the seal are right that would mean that every one of these ok i can't give you an answer what that means of population i have to look at it or did i just think you need to look at those flags thank you next name i have is john computer that well i get to read every week or every hour when the updates come from the township i'm sure they're no doubt my mind i know what the requirements are so that's pretty doing that as well i guess my i wrote a few questions i did as i've been fifty foot setback is that correct and the new zoning ordinance is going to be fifteen feet so therefore that that ordinance right there to point zero seven is that accurate if we can't put anything of the building structure or anything else is going to make this area impervious from our building that a roadway would not be considered green space or areas that can't be done so therefore the point zero seven acre lot for open space is actually not accurate separate parcels and could be part of an existing law on the slots are currently there is there anything from stopping a developer from subdivide say need subdivided to say they are not for instance the parkers i know have a large farm right now and if they subdivided it the fifteen different lots which are all fifteen acre lots and gave it to each one of their children who then could become a developer and now all of a sudden where we're to see our nation puts it in a restrictions were forty percent of it's now going to be what you call the open space but now we have five or six or seven different segments they're going to have read welling lot of small and that becomes difficult to do when you spoke of the quantities and the high density so you're going to the family dwellings the three on every acre and there aren't sewer system set currently set up for this area how easily it is to find out i guess up to find out my phone too but in doing so then is there a date when the sony's going when this is going to be voted upon do we know that no we do not at this point i would there is any adjustments that need to be made before they take a vote and we're we are talking about patio homes that with the case with the to get them to work three per acre instead of two i was i was just curious is there something right now that stops people if people are buying homes these patio four hundred twenty five to five hundred thousand dollars i'd like to meet these people some day care but i was curious is there something in our zoning ordinance right now that stops and only person from buying a home of that magnitude or patio home on a half acre lot and building a patio home and a half acre lot right now now but the concept of a patio home is to have an area where you don't have any maintenance of the ground you have a number of  it's just a single family home already and then the age group you're looking at for that was fifty five to seventy five that correct is you know perhaps on that i think that from in general that the people that are buying these on a whole you get the point of rezoning with there if there is that's what this whole thing what we we went through a process of developing a comprehensive plan and which deals with issues of of all different types of  key points when we did a conference plan was we were trying to make sure that we developed a long term plan that provided fiscal sustainability for the community so that we don't get in and a trend where a lot of suburban communities and they get developed fully developed and then all of a sudden they have their tax base is limited and then then they start to decline what we try to do is you go in and look at ways to keep areas that are that are vibrant provide enough commercial activity second in the growing town center area which are looking at developing further so that it continues to keep the property values up and keeps the revenues consistent for the community so that we don't end up in a situation where like in some of the communes like percent clear where they are they're totally dealt out and now their only option is to increase tax up as well the school district may have a township i don't know if that has much to effect on anybody here i know it comes out of our pocket one way or the other i guess i just my last question was as you were talking about a master plan to me being on golden eagle so i can see if that's the valid back in a yellow area which you had earlier on this chart here i can see if you have more town homes and everything else that there is going to be a large amount of traffic it comes down through the  the housing complex ramen you said that you had a master plan was that master plan also the sites of all arteries for roadways to get in now for these massive number of people so it doesn't go into the happening tonight if you look at all the people no disrespect there buddy over there but i think most of the people over here are all neighbors of mine and i think you can see where we stand and we hope that you vote in favor of keeping the zoning ordinance the way it is so thank you mcgrath i live on golden eagle drive and i wasn't planning on speaking but a few of the things that you have said one of the things nobody's bringing up is you're going to add these thousands of people to the township where they're going to go to school and if you draw a line down through this map where they divide the school most of that yellow and brown is in power hill area there are seven hundred thirty kids that go to bauer hill right now there's almost nine hundred kids and mcmurry schools we just signed a teacher contract guaranteeing the number of students per class the classrooms are ready at twenty two to twenty four student i have three children i moved to peter's for the openness i moved for the school system i moved for the amenities the parks the things like that absolutely i didn't move here so that my kids could be in forty kid classrooms and in makeshift classrooms and you're all talking you know the school districts talking about building a new high school what are you going to do with these kids when they're younger right now our schools are are full those classrooms there aren't empty rooms i volunteer in that school multiple days a week there's no empty classrooms with nobody in them there's twenty to twenty four kids in every room in those building and you're saying one of you made the point to somebody else's point that this isn't going to target senior citizens what would be great is if we could bring single parents and people with young children in great that's even more kids filling the school district and then the school taxes are already going to have to be raised for that and then we also agreed to a stipend of the teachers on per student basis so as soon as we hit a number of students in the classroom now you're raising that amount again the other question i have is i don't i'm not against development in our township but development that makes sense this is twenty five hundred acres that you want to lay a blanket on and say every one of these acres can be these multi housing things great they can still be our one but i'm sorry if i'm a builder and i own a piece of that land why would i ever sell it to one person when i could sell it to three it's simple math these people that own these larger parcels are not going to develop the land and say let's make it mostly one house when i can fit three because of the law they're going to put three houses on those parcels and i think it's insane to think that they're not going to go after the higher priced market then that they're going to go after a single family home because it would look better or it would add to the community and as far as the green space there's a green space between golden eagle and black more i've lived there for nine years it's a township owned land the challenge of ows my neighbors a lot of banks for the amount of time that they put in maintaining that green space but it's a disaster i bet it's been mowed golden eagle three maybe three times in nine years it's a disgrace it's full of concrete chunks it's it's not grass that your children can play in it's full of grass clippings and yard waste that people throw there and if the township comes through they get a brush mower and they clear cut the whole area including trees and things that people have put in there to try to beautify the neighborhood my my other thing is that there are thousands of kids in the peter sounds of school district and all you have to do is go online type your email address in and check a box i'd like the information about the high school the middle school the elementary schools it's an excellent system there isn't a person in this room that has a student that doesn't know the name shelley belcher and you're going to tell me you have no way to notify the community i will happily put my e mail address in whatever database you want to create and i would like every single meeting notification and committee members and the only person that i've talked to in this room tonight that knew about a committee formation is someone that owns a parcel that's in this rezoning it's ridiculous we do  time ok but if you if you look at this is a cross section of the population these are the people that saw the sign and cared enough to show up three people in this room know that exists and one of them is sitting in the builder section and the other one was sitting with the builders prior and the third seems to be an employee i'm not sure what purpose or but even so that's great but nobody knows about it nobody knows about it and i think it's it's asinine to think that you put these committees out there i'm an informed resident i would love to be informed i thought i'd pay attention in the school i would love to be a part of these things if i thought i would be there but putting some tiny ad in the omega and the observer reporter and hanging up middle point the point is the fact that you would sit there and say that you are unapologetic that your township doesn't know what you as a committee are doing is shameful and i would be very interested when you all run for re election because i think it's ridiculous that you think that there is no need to apologize to the people that live in your challenge to people you represent and the fact that we don't know what's going on is on you not points that have been made and i can be actually i think we're we all understand revenue we all understand all the nitty gritty that you guys have been talking about we get it we also understand your concern speak about one point and it's actually the most important thing it's actually the essence deep down the essence of what all these people saying forgive me but the reason people with a passion about it is because this is about family this is packed with people who love and raise their children ok the heart of the country is the family and the it's places like peter's township i can tell you that we've lived everywhere i can tell you that it is it's her beautiful it's a beautiful thing please don't erode that don't destroy that what makes it amazing you have your beautiful america what makes it beautiful is people's attention this doesn't happen each other's houses and where moms can raise their kids in safety and i'm sorry to speak about something from what you might think is an emotional point of view but it's actually the heart of the country  and the traffic that will happen because of high density housing will definitely erode and in some cases destroy the very fabric of the base thing about people and places like it gritty but pieces take a step back and think about the families and the mothers there is actually why people that much please i would urge you to just take a step back and rethink because the long charity the of a town that's very important we get that we get revenue we're all very intelligent we get that but one of the best thing that that will give you that will give it time longevity is because families can raise their children in safe the unsafe roads that's actually one of the main reasons why people live here at all so please just take a step back and think about everything think about it from the point of view of the stanley which is actually the most important thing in society and i think more decisions were made from that point of view i think we might not always make the decisions we make so i would urge you to please consider that thank you very much