remarks this morning we have i steered thank you chair i believe that most of you were here during the time that i gave a poem for about coffee and so i was quite inspired during the budget session when we were we actually had the department of public works present and christmas was the word that was being thrown around so i do i did do a poem about the budget and so but title of it is towards the night before budget twas the night before budget when all through the chamber not a creature was stirring not even a mouse the mayor's budget was hung by the chimney with care in hopes that chair hope comma soon would be there snug in their seeds while visions of line items danced at their feet and allie in her floral hair clip and mike in his aloha sleeve shirt had just settled their brains awaiting their down the line blurts when on the floor there arose such a clatter victory no spraying from a seat to see what was the public matter away from the chamber and in the hall i flew like a flash to be present before the last call surrounded by white paper blankets with cups of coffee bean and candy on the table believe me they say no fable the sun turned into the moon the burning daylight set the mood when what to my wondering eyes should appear but chairs budget that could neither make you fear more cheer bang bang with the little poit gavel of set in his hand he said clear your mind and ignore the drama i knew in a moment it must be side to the top of the chamber to the chop of the wall now focus now focus now focus all so out of the chambers to all districts they flew they carefully disciplinary rule not all got everything they wanted but at this juncture each district got infrastructure they could be said it's a dietary budget to reduce the county belly unlike the mayor's bowl full of jelly the chair and staff spoken not a word but went straight to work restoring in filling the stockings then turned with a jerk exclaim as he went out of sight the budget is balanced and to call it good night thank you interactive communication that enables individuals from ana to provide testimony for my district offices individuals who wish to offer testimony should now sign up at with the district office staff individuals who wish to offer testimony in detained please sign up a good guest located in the eighth floor lobby just outside the chamber door testimony at all locations is limited to the items listed on today's agenda and pursuant to the rules of the counsel good morning chair this is a long and there is no one here waiting to testify thank you mr chair we have two individuals who have signed up to provide testimony in the council chamber the first person to provide testimony this morning is chair of the royal order of coming home to be followed by richard getting your own year's bill thirty eight and basically on behalf of the royal auto i would like to model this council mahalo for support for being with us through this whole will say this journey testify and bill forty three and what is my concern about forty three is the language i sometimes we've got to be careful when it becomes the legalities about our language that has got changed the semantics so what has been changes is the wording of how we're going to deal with a by leaders of the illegal rentals and the way that it looks like i'm looking at it from the outside looking in so i have a different perspective so it's set in a wrong message it's going to bog down council members that don't have the felicity facilitators to go after the violators and then the result at a result that it stops revenues which a council member needs so my take is that he's keeping his it is but to make a stronger message for those who are violating to make a money or it could be used towards off to offset affordable housing because what's happening is all these homes that come in they're not residents but the high end homes is going to change the if this continues to happen it's going to start making more issues to homelessness despair continues so i'm asking you to be careful in the change of the semantics in the languages that is used that's going to favor the on bill forty three pam will be followed by tom the late seventy's as a licensed real is say professional i would strongly urge passage of the current bill is it fair and just for property owners who have been in the process they've been working in good faith and they need passage of this bill to complete their application process the bill in its current form requires an applicant to pay any application fees to be in good standing with the  taxes and to agree to be closed down until grant permit is granted there are these are applicants who are serious going to make the commitment and want to be in compliance base should be given the opportunity and not be turned away or banned this bill will also assist with those owners who have been on the sidelines those that are watching the process and waiting to come forward and submit their applications if an applicant is willing to admit they have done vacation rentals in the past and then when submitting their application there are dramatically banned for telling the truth this will not encourage the sideline ors to come forward and if banned it will not stop the band people from operating continuing to do business under the radar sorry but that's that is the truth as a vacation around professional the internet can be a wonderful tool it is certainly has revolutionized our business but it can be false and misleading just because a property is listed as a break a share and on the internet does not mean it is truly an operating vacation rental this is a really serious besides those who post a listing every great be trying to stay at a fabulous price with loads of ale ability sometimes operate with the full intention of taking someone's money and disappearing they do not have anything to do with the property they're not the owners of the agents they are scammers and they're not so sinister decide the person doesn't care about his business and maybe didn't big agent years ago they have a great website great website but they may hit the big one maybe in vegas they're not working anymore but their website is still out there even other properties are not available rent but it's not so in summary working on line to determine if it's not an accurate or foolproof way to determine if a map of came is currently or has been operating as a vacation rental  i noticed from a county agency such as a warning letter or a notice of noncompliance is the best way i can think of to determine if your property is used as a vacation rental could you provide a concluding remark this is a good please i want to start by just saying that no one has done more to help bring a legal industry to to the table than myself no one no one has been in this chamber is working with you guys no one has been out in that field working with with getting people through the process i know this this industry and i mean i i believe that i know what will help us get to the end goal which is the only people making this use are the people who have permits i urge you to pass the bill in the form that it that it was amended at at last at first reading and i say this for a number reasons one of the things that i'm pleased about is we now have a bill that is internally consistent and does not require that an applicant lotty in order to make application have to be honest with you ninety percent of the people who have gotten permits to date have previously been operated less than ten percent of the people who have gotten permits to date were completely you know not operating prior to getting their permits expecting that that would end immediately is just on realistic however we've made a very good change in this bill and that is this form that you codified that says that an applicant must first sign and affirm that they have stopped offering in order to make application then they must admit to any previous application operation and pay the taxes accordingly or show that they did pay the taxes at the time of that operation and then they must pay a back permitting fee associated with you know a fine essentially that you didn't do the right thing at that point the the operator signs or the applicant signs and says i affirm that everything i'm telling you is true if it's not then that permit can be denied and that person can be you know denied from for making application for a period of time this is a better way of going about it rather than saying we found it out there that you were operating so therefore you can't come in that i want to get these people in i want to get them permuted the bill that's on the table today will help in that in that way i can't say that this bill includes all of the things that i would have liked to have seen in it and all the things i advocated for a life is built with compromise and this compromise is a reasonable one and again i urge you to pass the bill in its current form thank you and it's been a long ten years and we seem to keep working at this we've got an awful lot of paper from you in the last twenty four hours and so i want to make sure i get i have one thing correct this bill  amendment what did they did well the amendment that was made at first reading and the four page testimony that you got today where the minutes from the planning committee meeting when the amendment that would say it's a notice of violation that would trigger a five year ban the planning commission affirmed that and said we we have we think that that is the right thing to do so they supported that we did it they supported the way the bill is currently written i just wanted to really be sure that that's what i understood yet at the time and the planning commission meeting that that they had was may of two thousand and fourteen you have the minutes to that meeting or a portion of the minutes to that meeting the planning to rector and joetta on behalf of the planning director said we want to have clarity that it is only after a notice of violation has been issued and all appeals have been exhausted that a five year ban would be applied and i do understand that the department changed their position on that in the meantime but that position was the department's position and it was it was supported by the planning commission at the may two thousand and fourteen be ok thank you very much embers any other need for clarification see none thank you mr crawley mr clerk next testifier is david good morning chair and members dr david dante is testifying as an individual regarding the second reading of the short term rental ordinance i seldom appear to testify before the entire coun so i'd like to take a moment to thank you for facing an impossible job personally i know what it's like to have a problem list that grows faster than i can check things off and i have problems which when i s another thing breaks but after you've found out that that's the way it is you stood up and said i'll do it for another term and that to me that's heroic so thank you all i'm here this morning because  m disappointed about an amendment which was passed at the first reading which inserted language into sixteen zero five zero all wedo we the part about a five year ban is now conditioned on the department first having issued a notice of violation the purpose of the ban is to act as a deterrent not as a retroactive means of enforcement it's estimated that more than a thousand illegal short term rentals open and there's no incentive for them not to open without a permit if there are no consequences if the five year ban isn't imposed at the time that a warning is issued there's no reason why  operator shouldn't just open their business and hope they don't get caught operate as long as they can if they do get caught just apply for a permit like everyone else in other words the department needs to have this disincentive in order to prevent people from opening illegal businesses that will reduce their workload and trying to chase down and enforce the ones that are already running illegal businesses now if i were sitting in your seats during the first reading and i heard the presentation of that amendment that there would be no written notice to people before they were banned and there would be no recourse through due process i would have voted for the amendment the problem is and  my written testimony i stated that the planning committee chair provided misinformation which persuaded this committee to accept his amendment and let me begin by saying i was not and i am not implying that that was some intentional deception by misinformation i mean statements of fact that are not correct what's not correct about them essential either statements were that a bad person doesn't get written notice that they don't have to process in order to insert due process you need to have a notice of violation but at the december third two thousand and fifteen planning committee meeting member guzmn and others carefully questioned the deputy planning director and on record she said that the department now has established a system where everyone will get written notification formal notification of a ban if they want to contest they can appeal directly to the department if they can show that they haven't been responsible for an advertisement they're excused from the ban and otherwise they have access to the board of variances in appeals and summary please reverse that amendment ok with it at a notice of warning time the ban being done it notice of warning there are two ways that a ban is applied right now most of the time it's applied as part of a notice of warning and when the notice of warning includes a ban that is an order which can be appealed but there are other times when it isn't applied as a as a part of the notice of warning and that is when an applicant has been found to have been eagerly illegally are brady was in the past year and then the current plan a division send letter saying that they've been banned and that also is appealable so it's ok with me if someone were to insert that there must be a written notice or there must be an appealable written notice but not a notice  good morning my name is that it and thank you for this opportunity i came to maui twenty seven years ago on my honeymoon i think it was twenty seven years ago and for first time coming  nervous i may be off but first time to a white to maui and of course fell in love with the weather with the smell with the food but mostly with the people in the culture so then we decided that we want to be going to retire someday and we're going to do everything we can to be able to afford that ten years later after our careers but along we were able to buy a house and as a rental property  preparation of our retirement it seems like another twenty years to come but we were able to make our dream come through when the bill passed to get a permit we tried to do that we did everything that was asked of us to do with the application i even included a copy of our guests that were coming to our house and it was denied it was denied because i was honest it was denied because i told them i'm operating as a rental i had no idea to lie i was told that i had to lie and this is not something i do we're not experts if you want to ask me anything about medical devices at the top for hours i could probably save your life but i know nothing about ren and i was and i'm learning as i go along and i urge you to pass this bill because it takes that away we don't have to lie anymore and please be patient with us because this is not our expertise and help us the pope has a lot thank you thank you mr sleeve other members of the need for clarification  reapply and come into compliance and yes dear it was twenty seven years just so you got that one right you know he's absolutely right we fell in love with maui and i remember we thought gosh could we ever retire here that would just be a dream come true so since then we were lucky to find a house in west now we and we've been bringing our kids here and friends here ever since we've taken great pride in our home  moment i'm sorry we've taken great pride in our room always making an extra effort to have it be very clean and safe and very enjoyable for our guests each year my husband and i would come for one full week just to fix the house you know and you know our homes are they always need repairs so to deal with repairs or upgrade things so the guest could always have the best experience so we applied for the short term rental and were denied for two reasons one was the advertising and we had taken down our ad the only ad we run which is on ve r b o well little to our knowledge there some other property manager had hijacked our listing put it on  trip advisor we didn't even know it existed and we learned sometime later that this is a fairly common practice and that property managers will do that and used another person's property as bait to get advertised to get renters to look at their rentals we tried to get ahold of trip advisor to get them to take down the listing and since we weren't the authors they wouldn't do it and we tried for many many months finally they took it down when we threatened them with legal action but it took that kind of intensity for them to even respond to us the other thing that was cited was that one of our guests many many years ago had done a little home movie a little family movie and posted it on you tube for their friends to see their vacation and we didn't even know about it and that was also cited as a so called ad but it wasn't an ad it was just a family's home movie that was posted in some of the footage obviously they stated  home was of their home but it was also of the beach and all over the line it was it was a darling little thing but it was a family family movie so that was considered our our problem with the advertising  the other thing that we were misunderstood and a little misled on on the rental part as my husband mentioned you know he submitted openly that the renters that were on the schedule and we the ones that we had temporary you know reservations we told them sorry you can't stay here we you know turn them away and and so i guess there was one guest that was there and and so they were saying that we are operating out of compliance for the first one guess that was there and so for those two reasons we were denied and unfortunately the notice of warning was sent to our wrong mainland address it was a different city so we never even got the warnings in enough time to respond to them before the denial letter came out misleading and you'll have to provide a concluding remarks and so so concluding remarks are the home that we bought has been a rental property for twenty years we've had it for sixteen the original builder had it for fo so it's been a rental property and it has maintained the original character of the neighborhood for over twenty years really and we would like for you to reconsider i think in our situation and in good faith we've tried to do everything we can to be compliant and i think clerk next as to fire is katherine clark testifying on bail number forty three on behalf of the molly the cation rental association i know how council members my name is katherine clarke and i am a is to work with government for fair legislation our goal is for everyone to have a permit so that ultimately there'd be very little need for enforcement and i have to say that a lot of progress in that direction has been made the changes to this ordinance will ease the way for future applications early this morning i took a look at g r b zero for haiku there's seventy five listings of those seventy five there's six listings for five  unpermitted properties a dramatic change from just eighteen months ago now a county is in a position to be a model within the us one of the only places with their vacation rental situation under control we are so ordinance will hopefully move us to the goal post much of the discussion in the previous meetings was slanted to stop a few how she has to say this nicely lying cheating operators and there are some provisions that were agreed upon will most likely block these applications and they were designed to do that it isn't as though any of these changes create an open invitation there will still be operators and able to meet the criteria and we agree they will simply not have the privilege of getting a permit at the last meeting an amendment was made that would require and overy to be issued before the five year ban would take place why it seems only fair that an operator have one morning before such a severe severe ban would be imposed this is exactly the amendment that the planning department requested at planning commission and may two thousand and four and the commission agreed to with the unanimous vote please keep in mind that this doesn't automatically bring everyone in for a permit prior operators must still fulfill a list of requirements to be able to apply including back taxes g e t t h e and after the fact permit fees i suppose the big question is whether or not we want compliance or is the objective to have as few operators as possible in the march third meeting miss mclean said and i quote our goal is to achieve compliance this is the only statute that we have that says failure to comply results in a ban if someone is operating in b and b without a permit and we initiate enforcement and they apply we can i permit if they meet the requirements so comparing enforcement and regulations of s t r ages is unique in that way that this particular permit has that bad language no other one does you're doing something the s m a without an a permit you get cited you submit your after the fact permit you get your permit if curate scuse me cure the violation and of quote so i have to ask like why is this one permit so different wouldn't you feel that doing something without a permit in the s m a is a much larger issue than somebody sleeping in a bad for less than one hundred eighty days in yet even a violation the yes i'm a can be cured with an after the fact permit i think that i think that before the department started enforcement it was approximately forty percent permit it sixty percent no permit now we're at the point that out of seventy five listings there were and some are multiple listings for one property but there were six listings two of those were for one property so five properties that were nonpermanent they've done a lot of work and i think the results right there i don't know if all communities have the same perhaps they focused in that area but it's a significant difference thank you very much i wanted just a little bit more thank you we're almost there i hope so  other course and members you know and thank you for being here this morning is declared mr chair there are no further individuals who've signed up to testify in the council chamber if there's any additional individuals in the chamber or at having to testify thank you mr chair there are no other individuals in the district offices nor the chamber that wish to offer testimony thank you mr clerk members we've received written testimony without objections will entered into the record and without objections will close public testimony no objections thank you but if someone is close mr court please proceed mr chair proceeding with the minutes you have before you for approval the minutes of the regular meeting of march for twenty sixteen the minutes of the public airing of march twelfth twenty sixth being in the minutes of the special meeting of march twelve twenty sixteen i served was one of the church moved to approve the regular minutes of members any discussion on the minutes for these three meetings so in none of those in favor of the motion please signify by saying i suppose you know if you're passive with eight eyes or a nose when excused and that is mr victory no particular mr chair proceeding with committee reports you have before you committee report number sixteen dash seventy three from the committee of the whole that recommends that the resolution entitled authorizing settlement  says county of mali disability compensation division case number seven dash zero nine dash zero zero three two six be adopted mr goodman i thank you chair i move to adopt the commuter report and sixteen two thousand and sixteen to consider a quest from the department of corporation counsel to authorize settlement of this worker's compensation case a deputy corporation counsel noted least apu is a former police officer who was participating a training program when she injured her knee or the missile who had surgery on her knee and the procedure did not correct the problem he explained the department corporation counsel is requesting authorities settle the case including issues relating to her partial disability locational rehabilitation future indemnity that if its and medical and other benefits following executive meeting your committee voted ninety zero to recommend adoption of the proposed resolution to authorize settlement of this matter under the terms proposed in executive session i ask the members for support of this bullshit thank you chair thank you mr newsman members or any further discussion on the site i'm seeing none of those in favor please signify by committee report number sixteen dash seventy four the recommends that the resolution entitled authorizing an increase in funding related to the employment of special counsel hunt down and williams l o l p in h wildlife fund et al versus county of mali docket number of fifteen dash one seven four four seven united states court of appeals for the ninth circuit be adopted as to when the chair moved to adopt the by the department of corporation counsel to authorize three hundred fifty thousand in additional compensation for special counsel hunt and williams l l p for the appeal in this case while constrained in its ability to discuss litigation strategy open meeting while this case is on appeal your community noted a desire to provide an explanation of the case including its complexity an important note in the case has been active for more than four years a deputy corporation counsel provided background on the line injection wells and an overview of the case your committee provided much of the deputy's overview in this committee report to enable the public to have a better understanding of the issues involved in this case the deputy noted that assuming that there are no unexpected issues the increase in compensation for special counsel should be sufficient to cover the county through oral arguments which the department anticipates is set sometime in two thousand and seventeen and which will be at the of those in favor of policing if i buy say the i suppose say no measure passes with eight eyes or a nose and one excused is to push for the record resolution number sixteen dash sixty nine you had before you commit report number sixteen dash seventy five from the policy in a governmental affairs committee who recommends that the resolution entitle relating to the appointment of ivan lake to the molly county cultural resources commission be adopted fill a vacancy due to the resignation of gerald wong your committee was satisfied with the nominees that the nominee is qualified to fulfill the duties and responsibilities related to the commission i would like to thank mr lay for volunteering his time to serve on the commission i sixteen dash seventy two from the chair of the salary commission transmitting to counsel the matter relating to the salary increase for the first deputy for the corporation counsel county communication number sixteen dash seventy three for under director of finance transmitting to council twenty nine contracts grants for the month of march twenty sixth county communication over sixteen dash seventy four from the chief of police informing the council of the receipt of eighty eight thousand seven hundred ninety two dollars and seventy two cents from the u s marshals service county communication number sixteen dash seventy five from the director of finance transmitting to the two counsel to fiscal year two thousand and sixteen twenty seven transmuting to counsel the matter relating to council members reports on the night to all one age affordable housing project presentation held on april twenty sixth thank you chair i move to or for county communications sixteen seventy six and the related attachments submitted by me today to the housing human services and transportation committee sic their motion from  sixteen council members ricky comma myself john coach attended a meeting hosted by the department of housing and human concerns on the subject of the two to a one age affordable housing project senior center i am making this report pursuant to the state sunshine law specifically section nine dash two point five pairing of the h r s the presentation was given by director of housing and human concerns carol raymond housing administrator deputy corp council jeffrey and council member of the topics addressed during the presentation included a brief overview of the project project exemptions and conditions phasing the status of the counties or cress for proposal for phase one and the criteria for ownership of housing units and restrictions a quorum of the council was not present at the meeting the housing project meeting was not specifically an exclusively organized for or directed toward members of the council but was a public meeting organized by the department of housing and human concerns no committee relating to a vote on any council business was made or sought after the meeting i are prepared to report to the consummate describes in more detail the substance of the substance and issues presented at the meeting attached to the report is a copy of the powerpoint slides prepared by the department and presented at the meeting also attached the report is a handle on affordable sales price guidelines from the meeting i asked at the report presentation and hand out beer for  resignation of mr may want to say that i spoke with her since this filing and everything is fine just some things that she needs to do the potentially will take her out of town so she thought it better be better someone excused mr clerk you have before you cannae communication number sixteen dash seventy eight from the director of water supply transmitting to council the department of water supplies monthly source report and groundwater if your passes with journos when excused mr quote mr chair the following county communications are recommended for referral to the following committees as noted to your budget and finance committee county communication sixteen dash seventy nine from the director of finance reporting to council on the transfers from the general fund and department of water supply revenue fund to the bond fund as of march twenty sixth county communication sixteen dash eighty fro director of finance transmitting to counselor report of short term investments for the quarter ending march thirty first twenty sixteen county communication sixteen dash eighty two from the budget director transmitting to council the budget information report as of march thirty first twenty six fiscal year two thousand and sixteen third quarter two your economic development energy agriculture and recreation committee county communication sixteen nash eighty three from guzman transmitting to counsel a proposed resolution entitled it built for an ordinance to establish the whole why and cultural resources fun county communication sixteen nash eighty four from the director of parks and recreation transmitting to council the semi annual report regarding park dedications for each community plan area for the period of march first twenty fifteen through march thirty first twenty sixteen you're planning committee county communication number sixteen dash eighty five from council member college submitting to the council the matter relating to the community plan update process to your policy and intergovernmental affairs committee county communications sixteen dash eighty rescue of the state of washington and the county of mali's department of fire and public safety county communication sixteen nash eighty six from the chief of police transmitting to council a proposed resolution entitled authoriz into chapters three point five six molly county code county communications sixteen dash eighty seven from council member who comma transmitting to counsel a proposed bill entitle a bill for an ordinance to prohibit committee for the for the crafting of the of the of the ordinance and obviously any any further action on that to fund it would go to the budget finance committee you have before you bill number thirty eight twenty sixteen a bill for an ordinance amending the fiscal year twenty sixteen budget for the county of mali as it pertains to estimated revenues office of the mer economic development program total operating appropriations and total appropriations operating and capital improvement projects mr become a german if the members of strategic prevention framework partnerships for success the bill number forty two twenty sixteen a bill for an ordinance amending the fiscal year two thousand and sixteen budget for the county of mali as it pertains to appendix eight part one gran revenue schedule of grants by departments and programs department of parks and recreation state of hawaii more complex mr home thank you m please come back to order numbers we are on our final item bill that every tree and strickler in it mystic share bail number forty three twenty sixteen mr couch in a second from mr carroll couch thank you mr chair i have a list of amendments that i want to go through first so if the members could follow along the clarified that condominium units are like regular properties throughout the bill or else it would be confusing and inconsistent the planning department asked for these amendments by the way without this clarification all owners of an entire property would have to sign an application form for one short term mental home on one condo condominium ised unit all owners would be cited for short term mental home violations on one condominium my unit and all owners would be responsible for compliance for all condominium as units it was the intent of your planning committee to allow large condominium property regime properties like the international college club to get individual short term mental home permits in this language needs to be added or else none of these applicants would qualify i think mr coach remembers any further discussion on this item the bill the applicant and permit holder can be more than one person for example husband and wife or siblings who together own at least fifty percent of this and the same should be true for the trustee this clarification will make it consistent throughout the bill was issued by the planning commission and the rules of the department so we have a motion for mr couch in the second for mr carroll mr couch this motion deletes layers that was deleted elsewhere in the bill for the consistency as shown in the memo one and the purpose of deletion is because it's no longer in effect this one thousand point five three zero point zero three zero it's my understanding and i think the department can explain further this was a request by corporation counsel and bit so i do don't have a problem with it if you would like to keep it i think that's fine but i think the revocation procedure would have to proceed through a written notice to the to the to the applicant  whose or or permit holder whose permits being revoked and that person would have to have an opportunity to appeal to the board of variances in appeals but because all of that's already written into the code in applies generally throughout title nineteen i don't think that this is required language it may be helpful so i don't have a problem with with retaining it but i think it's it it's potentially redundant every director thank you chair  the rules of the planning commission have provisions for revocation or nonrenewable of short term rental ho permits and they don't it also suggests that the department rules have provisions for revocation of short term rental home permits and they don't the bill itself provides detail standards for when to revoke and rend not to renew so references to other rules aren't needed because it's spelled out very clearly and in a lot of detail in the ordinance so really the only thing that we need to follow when considering whether to renew or not or whether to revoke is what spelled out in the actual ordinance would there be at some point in the future rules would be made by the planning commission and the u s department that this could be used at a future time i don't think that the planning commission would adopt rules specific to short term rental home permits most short term rental home permits are issued by the department on just the ones that meet the triggers go to the planning co the department does have some draft administrative rules for bed and breakfasts and short term rental homes but those are quite a way from being formalized in adopted so you're saying that you wouldn't want to have that flexibility a generalisation to allow it's something in the future rulemaking in the future for these entities or these departments i believe that early on in the bill there's a provision that authorizes the department to adopt administrative rules to administer it when it comes pacifically to what were the amendment that we're talking about today which relates to revocation and also re on nonrenewable because those provisions are so specific in the ordinance it's unlikely that administrative rules are going to further elaborate on that process you know the administrative rules are needed when th end of the short term on a home law already one thousand nine hundred five on i know it does say in a sections titled administrative rules it says the director may adopt administrative rules to implement the provisions of this chapter that's in general throughout general through through out anything so if the department wanted to look at administrative rules to do more precisely define how a permit would be revoked if it already does have the power to do that ok thank you thank you any further discussion on whether or not a communication that offers this is essentially new with advertising being treated as prima facia evidence if you have lessee of record i suppose someone could attempt to argue that well  i don't have a a record at least so therefore you can't use my communications as evidence of operation and i don't really think that there's a basis for that i think if there is someone that has a lease whether or not that  lease is recorded if there is evidence of them advertising their property that should still be used as prima facia evidence of operation so this doesn't go to whether or not to operate someone needs to have a recorded lease it's basically going for that for the section on whether or not there is evidence to find that they're operating illegally so if anybody whether or not they have a least it's recorded if if there are you know they're releasing property and they're advertising that property as being forged for short term mental home permit use this is going to say you don't necessarily have to have that lease recorded they could use evidence whether or not that it's talking about using evidence of that less see advertising for the property and that it would be i think more advantageous to not have to prove that that less see it has a recorded lease anybody leasing the property who advertises it as a as a short term mental home you can use that as evidence of operation and so i think that's going to be easier for someone to to look at that and say  this is clear evidence of operation and i think of record is probably language that's not not needed there and could potentially narrow the evidence the department could use in order to prove a violation so i think if it's taken out there's actually more evidence the department can use in order to be enforced against for advertising if it was a lessee without a recorded lease then this provision would apply to them if that language stays in the can and in fact mr chair it may be prudent to also remove the second of record which appears later on in that same paragraph if to be consistent with the first sentence i am seeing that it does say the burden of proof shall be on the owner operator or lessee of record oh yes taking out that second of record would be a good idea especially if th that thank you chair i move two men bill forty three twenty sixteen by striking the language who has been issued a notice of violation from the third sentence in section  corporate chair thank you very much and thank you mr goodman chair the amendment summary form outlines my proposed changes to bill forty my change to bill forty three the notice of violation language was added that first reading my motion deletes the language and goes back to what was recommended by your planning committee and there's testimony earlier in the explanation that it was kind of a last minute change and all that on april fifteenth and the justification for the first reading amendment to require a notice of violation prior to imposing the five year ban was to provide due process to either legal operators however under the committee's bill the legal operators already had a method of challenge an appeal to the ban requiring a new it is a violation prior to a ban delays the start of the ban places an additional burden on planning department and corporation council and is  necessary when a person is caught operating illegally they are informed by planning department that they must stop operating and are in eligible to apply for a permit for five years that person has several options to contest the department's decision so they have options when the operator can show that they have a valid permit are operating as a grandfathered use or otherwise are legally permitted if they do so the department of the back to the operator to me provider for me showing that they were not reading the short term rental for example an owner who can show the advertising was from a pri owner is outdated or is for another property would not be subject to the ban three if the operator believes the planning director acted in error in imposing the ban the operator m appealed the decision to the board of variances an appeals within thirty days after the appeals hearing the operator would have the opportunity to present evidence and make arguments against the imposition of a delays the imposition of a very important tool used to stop illegal operators notice of violations or better used to enforce against operators who continue to operate illegally after warning and imposition of a ban the formal process which requires corporation counsels assistance and additional departmental enforcement resources should be reserved for the most flagrant of violators who disregard the law and warnings from the department lead in this language would put teeth back into the bill and would eliminate the additional time and manpower the added requirement would cause i respectfully asked for this council support of my motion to delete the notice of violation language from the bill thank you notes cockrum thank you everybody for the discussion mr cote to give us a chair and i understand mr cochran is concerned however i'd like to give two points first point is an example an example of somebody breaks into a home and steal something out of the home and it's caught on the web cam and everybody sees it on facebook they still get a chance to go through the process to determine whether they're guilty or not this process says you're guilty you have to appeal immediately if there can be this person who breaks in the home is convicted then they get their chance to appeal we're saying no no chance to even go to trial or anything you have to appeal immediately i don't think that's fair the other thing is if we leave it at notice a violation will give incentive to the department to issue those notices of violations so that they can ban these people right now they have no incentive they just ban them in there have been reports and documentation that they have banned them without anything in writing and that's my biggest concern is people will call up and say oh you can't they say you can't you've been advertising so you're banned so don't even come into play that has happened so that's why i've put it i've asked put it at notice a violation to one to give the department incentive to actually issue the notices a violation and move forward in the enforcement and to to give somebody a chance you know were you are innocent until proven guilty except for in this case thank you march discussion when we had the department specifically lab rate on this section and i think we spent a good an hour and a half on it i voted no at that time and still will vote no based on the reasoning given by the department i also advocate for one of the testifiers saying that this is somewhat of a retroactive enforcement and it's basically we're chasing them down they either they are they are it's as simple as that and then by having this language in there we the burden is place more so on the department to track these to  down i appreciate mr couches i guess analogy or example but those are almost felony criminal cases this is a criminal matter which is admi e so in terms of having reasonable due process i think that there are measures already in place as the department explained turning that meeting that allowed the due process to be  sure through the ministry of procedures saw at this point i'd like to call on the department to elaborate more on what type of procedures are in place for notice and what they do i know it's a it's almost like deja vu bring it back up but i'd like to have some input from the department at this level i know it was voted down that section when i was tried to be amended at committee meeting thank you chair yes we did discuss this at length in committee and i believe we made our position clear we prefer for the more aggressive language that came out of the committee we were surprised that the change was made at first reading but as you can see we didn't testify asking that it be rescinded essentially we feel that we will be equally criticized either way for either inforced being too severe or it being too lax the original language is a little bit more aggressive and i think the committee voted that way because you've included this grace period through the end of the year there was some very strong testimony from the committee that you really wanted to open it up and give operators this final opportunity to come in and get their permits we all seem to agree that people know for the most part that they need to get their permits in this would be the last opportunity through the end of the year to get their permits after that it comes down to a simple call it's relatively easy decision to make after this grace period when we find that someone is operating without a permit do you want them to be banned right away or do you want them to be given a notice of warning so then they can apply and have that further grace period before they might get banned again the impression that we had from the committee was that no the end of the year is it after that if you're still operating you've had this phenomenal opportunity after that if you're still doing it you're done that's the impression that we got from the committee and if that's how you still feel then that's the amendment that's before you if you feel that after that point if you still want someone to have the chance to apply at notice morning then you keep the language as it came out of first reading we don't feel that there is would be enough of an incentive people would still wait until they got that notice of morning we would still be the ones providing them you had this grace period you didn't take advantage of it now here's your notice of warning ok ok ok now we'll get the permit or dislike at some point you have to say no you're done we feel on every other permit including s m a permits which are very strict and very i mean those are very important permits and they get a chance to come after the fact and say opes i'm sorry i didn't know i get to do the after the fact i'm a permit everywhere else every other permit we give everybody gets an after the fact chants except this one that's i would also say that when you compare to this in particular issue the difference is most of those after the fact permit issues are with residential with with people changing their own homes in this particular case you have a commercial component attached to it you have a money generated there under the rules and the code says hey you've been in war we're giving you a six months grace period there's no other doubt in my mind that if you don't if you don't come in now you shouldn't be given a notice of warning  there is that grace period right now and they've been talking about this and so anyone who is clueless about what this is a vote that you need to come in and get legal and what have you is like mr who isn't said you're bad that the prices that price is driving up affordable rental for our local people and it just overall in hama as mr guzman mention these homes that used to house long term local families have flipped into short term rentals because they can make a profit and yes it's a commercial it's a business and people that come here and testify to me to come here lobby to assist in writing language in this a bill which in the end they probably stand to gain monetary have profit at what they do for a living for me really smells of conflict some of that in itself i don't appreciate but getting back to what this is about local five cents in some wonderful testimony hopefully everyone got to look through that and share the statistics as in how people are getting out priced our local people we sit here every day talking about affordable housing affordable rentals what this is not helping so that is why i feel strongly why i'm really passionate about it and monitor really quick break chair i went and i went on to air b n b and you know there are seven thousand rentals on maui island so this is why i'm proposing this this is why i'm pushing forward you know we don't like to do this kind of work here but you know this is the last aunts and i'm going to stand by what i believe in and that is with our local people that is for this community that we all sit here and say we want to help well guess what in favor of the current form is not helping so a chair said enough and i think everyone got the point so thank you very much i agree with some of your sentiment but believe that many of the the number of accommodations that are listed under the seven thousand are legal because they're in condominiums further discussion on this item the chairs feeling is that here the fact that we're doing oh i'm sorry to spice up just one more comment you know we sit here setting rates and fees every year and one of the things we talk about after the fact that's the effect that we have after it affects permit fees tells me that this is not unusual it's  good point and at the same time a lot of after the fact permits are when people buy a home and realize that they're out of compliance and have to go in for after the fact permits and the tears feeling is that we have  have been i think reasonable with the extension of the grace period for six months church feeling concurs with the department's position that  we we need to have a hammer to use in this instance if you're not going to take advantage of the grace period then we need to we need to make sure that people  realize there are consequences if you're not following the law so i think we've been reasonable in the way we've approached this and i agree with les cochran that we need to take it back as i said in the last with mr culture is proposal i must say i voted in favor of but as i try and tune in further into this so called problem that we have and of course i was here when all of this began and this very idea of having people wait in order to do a short term mental the b and b a whatever was discussed at that time i would like with this type of building this type amendment i don't even know how to how they're going to operate and get this that to make those collections to even give us a payment so are you aware of the discussed also in committee that by facilitating the payment of taxes operators can have the misimpression that they are now in compliance and so we had asked if language could be successful in making that request but we do still have that concern that because they get their senses that they are people feel that they are lawful it the bill did contain language that the tax collection agent has to do something to the effect of notify these operators that they must be in compliance with local ordinances and that they need to be aware that there are local ordinance but i don't know if there's any downside or penalty if they fail to do that we would though we we have seen some opportunities to try to work with the state tax office to get that information from them as an enforcement tool because on the license there's one of the lines indicates the location of the operation and i believe counties in the past have tried to get that information from the state tax office and they were able to but that's something we would like to pursue as an enforcement tool taxes does not mean that they're there in compliance with counties last and i think that's important if if you know the state passes that fine but it's not going to affect the county's right to prohibit this type of use without without a permit and that's that's that's important i think for anyone to know that if they're if they're if they're operating that is just one issue of compliance in doesn't mean that you're in compliance with local zoning laws which are  blanket what happens to somebody who has been operating with a permit legally and decides to sell their home to somebody else who wants to continue that operation they can't i had like to ask the  department thoughts on this amendment as well thank you thank you chair this morning was the first that we saw on this amendment so i have not had a chance to talk with the director or was staffer or with enforcement about it i can't say that we have a strong opinion because on the one hand as mr carroll advocated like the five year hold on new construction on this would have a similar deterrent for people buying houses on spec for that use but at the same we're also concerned with the scenario you just described there are some properties that realistically are suited for vacation rental use in the resort areas and you do have a property that might change hands and it would there doesn't seem to be a whole lot to be gained by banning that property from short term rental use for five when the new owner might want to come in lawfully for a permit i can see both sides i'm sorry we i can't offer a strong position on the amendment right now because i haven't had a chance to discuss it with others and the when we discuss the bill again because it is i agree with mr carroll we have to stop that speculation but we also have the concern of you know all the places that are to have the permit and then they want to sell it then it goes back specially like mr mclean said especially the coastal areas in which and a couple i don't know if they have a lot of coastal  single family homes there but certainly in the people so if this doesn't pass today i am committed to bringing that back up and we can figure out i think we might be able to come up with some language that can help both ways but i can't think of it right now just some of it's come into my head to and i don't want to do it snap on the fly i think it's something that we can come up with when we sit down with the department in the attorneys and figure out a way to to have it both happen so one way or the other will will have to discuss that in committee thank you doing some research and thought occurs to the chair that we may want to focus on prospective purchases as opposed to having owned it for five years because certain things have already happened i don't know whether we're limited to well i'm a little uncomfortable with this because it's there's so many  us you know i'm comfortable with the concept as it applies to i'm not quite sure we haven't updated the know what the implications are to folks that may be in the process of applying know chair if i may respond to council member comments comment he is correct that there is no transfer of permits in that this kind of situation if house were to sell permit wouldn't transfer with it the new owner could apply for a permit and under the proposed amendment they have to wait five years to do that we'd be happy to work with the planning committee on on addressing the problem and discussing other language if the amendment doesn't pass today or if there is one particular area that some of the primary concern if if if if it were confined to that area we would be able to administer that saul purchase scene of a property in order to do short term run a lot of it so the concern mr couch brought up sounds like it's been addressed and then what you're saying if someone did purchase it was an existing permitted use in the new owner would like to continue it come to you in more than likely it be so maybe in that sense if and then it's up to the new owner to pursue it or not and they'll come in so this section wouldn't you know apply because it had already been vetted through gone through the whole you know rigamarole of becoming a legally permuted property something to that extent they feel could be helpful in you know taking care of mr carroll's trying to do in also trying to make it fair enough for a new owner hopefully as soon as the leader of course there from a taxation standpoint or how we look at valuation we're going to allow the continued use of the s t r then what we've seen is residential property should be viewed as business commercial because that's the ballot and that's what people are going affordable housing by continuing to allow the commercial business sector factor into the residential side you'll never get affordable values down to what we need to and to offer people at the  people do it and come back to lee which means i can't wait for my promise i would do it now and that's where you come in for maybe we should do away with that freeze after the fact the see if you caught you have a information before me so at this time i cannot support a man that i do the fact that i just i need more information i need more collaboration from the department and the mentioned earlier in their position they were unclear as well so i would rather have a more definite position given by that department thank you take action on the proposed motion so i reminded mr carroll that i don't want to ever hear him complain about doing a committee work at council again that said and the chair is willing to take this up at the at the next meeting after mr couch mr carroll and the department and corp council have had a chance to look at the implications so we can't take action on this measure today anyway because of the changes so we're leaving we leaving the bill basically on the table until our next meeting aired so it's not really referring back to chair i move to postpone action on the main motion to pass bill number forty three on second and final reading to the meeting of council of the council on may twentieth twenty sixteen at nine a mr couch in a second for mr carroll mr chair under the rules of the council rule nineteen c a bill that is being considered for final reading that is amended at the council meeting shall not be acted upon at the same meeting as the amendment final action shall be taken the next feasible meeting while there are exceptions to this rule none appear to apply in this instance any further discussion members serious or catch proposing to make another amendment at the next meeting and then we'll be in a circle well i'm not voting  that's brought up an interesting point to the next feasible meeting our next meeting is on the budget so the question is well we have the budget and have planning committee following the budget in the morning so the question is is the next feasible beating the meeting following what it which were discussed in the budget get to your discretion but i'm really asking you guys want to try to do it on the same day as we do the budget or just focus on the budget it's going to be the second reading of the budget at the next would be then the following meeting