fifteen was unreasonably delayed i don't want to belabor the facts of the case with relayed out very thoroughly in the transcript for the suppression hearing but essentially officer perm lee did everything he could to avoid pursuing the tra question but you know but what i need you to talk about is this this was not a car in which mr offered was sitting by himself there's a passenger so the police officer in a sense is processing both people at the same time and when he finds out that the passenger has no identification with her he brings her back to the squad car and has to take a few minutes she's cooperative and she tells him her name he pulls her up figures out that she's got the active warrant and all of a sudden it begins to transform into a more serious stop than just somebody going eighty five in the sevent so i want you to tell me how these cases relate to a situation where there are really two people of interest very early on into the stop the driver who was speeding and the passenger who it turns out has an active holy that took up some time but that's not the delay we're talking about so but if you if you allow him to do that we shave off quite a bit of the time that you're concerned with if you watch that video which i court in two thousand and fifteen in this case there's very little delay necessary to make it on reasonable because had all the information he needed from the very start so when the officer finds too well the warrant didn't suggest that she had any ongoing drug activity and a little bit of suspicion it doesn't make it reasonable suspicion in fact officer parma who is a believe been a trooper for over ten years told the court under oath that he had no suspicion that mr overed was involved in it and that kind of gets it's an object that you i mean you can least on my reading and i think clearly more suspicious looking the mr over so i do agree it's not jacked of test but i think that one of the missteps that the district court took was holding that officer perm lee's opinion that there was nothing suspicious here with mr overed was of no matter the cases both from here and from the supreme court it clear that officers training experience are to be given their due consideration as part of that to tell any of the circumstances here to saying that's part of the evidence that would go to the ascertainment whether there was something objective lee wrong yes and i think it would be rather powerful one drivers would be subject to being stopped and detained it becomes rather than serious if you think about the video right i mean you've seen the video many times at what point do you think that there ok you know i'm going to arrest or here there's a little bit of small talk he makes absolutely no question about whether or not his license is as it turned out just about the nine minute mark yes right is that when he says i've also got to check out the bonding issue was already going to be arrested was already going to be taken back to the the to the station that had nothing to do with the traffic there was no need to do that sort of check at that time in which he did things rather than checking out the bank you think he s order of what they're doing and then he's got going on here is he's got colleagues that are showing up right he's got a back up car and he's got the canine fella shows up to yet he asked for the canine i think it about minute five of the encounter right so my point with that is when they get there you know he it's reasonable i think for for him to give them a quick rundown on what's going on well well he wasn't i mean that's again that's kind of gets the order he's choosing to interact with these officers on this non traffic related issue instead of going back to mr overton and saying well is this license current well that's why i asked you about the the fact that there are multiple people here which is a complication that i don't see and rodriquez he's until officer jefferson and whoever the dog serious question cleveland i guess shows up he's he's managing the whole thing and he's there in the left shoulder of of the highway trying to make sure that he's you know having contact with offered with how way with you just kind of getting this all done and i just don't know where a compelled order of dealing with this with least within this time frame comes up times the same set of questions all of which related directly to you know where you coming from what are you doing so i would say that the unreasonable delay was kind of baked into the middle of it and woven through the process i'll tell you what i thought you might say i thought you might say that the way occurred when he was sitting in the car with her after after she was handcuffed i believe and that and when he was talking about well i got it there's going to be  warrant in light of this warrant issue along with the need to issue mr over a speeding ticket the district court correctly how that the traffic stop of mr ford was not unreasonably prolonged so why it isn't under the at least the spirit of the rodriguez opinion why shouldn't he once he had her secured in the squad car let's say once he's got the handcuffs on or alternatively that last why wasn't his responsibility just go back at this point he says he still has no reason to think that there's deal with the speeding ticket before he had finished dealing with some of the issues related to the warrant which as was pointed out earlier would include this bind issue it would also include the fact that miss home was still held luggage in the car in mr over its car so there there are a number of issues that still need to be settled regarding this whole way and we don't know is it your position that by the time she's sitting there in the car handcuffs that he has at least reasonable suspicion to think that there are drugs in the car yes you based on the fact that she had an outstanding well she has an outstanding warrant for dangerous drugs initially when officer primary st pulled them over even though as your honour's heard in the video there on a very loud freeway the windows when it goes back to her in the car and she's in the middle of a gigantic yawn and then some point she going puts her head over on the side and i think i don't think there's any doubt that she was sleeping well and viciously it i think suspicion increases at the point where mr offered offers his chicago identification but when ms howe is asked for her identification mr offered immediately jumps in and speaks for her and says she doesn't have any despite the fact that she's recently been crossing state lines why would you why does the government think that's a big deal she's not driving it's unusual i would say to go to another state without any form or dedication particularly where you're staying there for four days right one i mean we don't have a papers please society we don't have that well and and besides which maybe you know about the outstanding warrant i mean that doesn't give reasonable suspicion that there are drugs in the car maybe he didn't want to get the identification so that she didn't arrested for that maybe this train but still in all the fact that she was sleeping it was it like one thousand two hundred and thirty at night it was just before midnight and then extended past midnight here on her yeah i guess i don't think those things nor do i think driving the rental car was particularly suspicious we don't know we're not saying that these things taken individually created recent polls especially and we're looking at it under the totality of the circumstances we understand that that actually a favor i could ask the government if you would just stop saying that one of the items leading to suspicion is that you're on a highway known for drug trafficking i lived for several years in houston less than a mile away from interstate ten and i promise you interstate ten which  from florida all the way over to san diego has its share of drug trafficking but it goes through both sorts of cities houston's the th or rd largest city in the country and i mean the proportion of drug traffic compared to the rest of the population traveling these roads is minuscule it's not a suspicious factor i would say the same thing about fifty five or i fifty seven or the candy or would i have do you think your stronger argument is reasonable suspicion or simply that he didn't and reasonably poland stop your honor i actually think both arguments are strong here i think it's very clear and as the district court found officer parmly was diligently performing tasks related to the traffic stop related to the issuing  the traffic ticket standing warrant and i think is judged under pointed out it was perfectly reasonable when these backup officers arrived for ops or permit to provide them with some additional information i don't think he was just dragging it out so the dog would have time to get the issues the ticket and after issue after issuing the ticket has the driver of the car wait for i think it was a total of twenty two minutes on the side of the road for the dog to show up that that is not what is going on here what about  defendant's argument that there is an obligation of ordering here and that he should have put this highway aside and you know he could have waited to process that but then he was up again it's a move the traffic stop along and right i don't believe that there is an obligation for the officer to address the ticket before they address the warrant you know mr the officer during the sap mr offered actually asked the officer questions regarding this how is a partly informed mr alford that he was going to let him know about bond information he also told ms howe it during the stop i'm going to let you know i'm going to figure out what your bond is and at that point an officer partly is my and he's still thinking that there's a possibility that mr overt is going to want to  they can leave together so i think that one of the reasons he's trying to figure out this warrant issue st just so he knows he knows the landscape of what's going on here is that somebody who's live with mr overheard additionally given the fact that this was a warrant for dangerous drugs she was flagged as armed and dangerous it probably seemed like a priority you have an officer who is alone on a highway with two individuals late at night waiting for backup and he's trying to figure out exactly exactly what's going on this court has noted multiple times of time when you're when you add the complexities judge wood is pointing out of not not just a passenger but then dealing with this whole warrant situation that are going to rose with the passenger that the officer wasn't expecting and if you just if you just think about you know your common life experience you know thirty all this happening in thirteen or fourteen minutes is a pretty remarkable e you know short duration of time and be it be short for just getting a speeding ticket i agree i agree your honor i think particularly where you have the officer with and this thirteen or fourteen man of time pulling somebody over misleading explaining what's going on and checking criminal history getting identification information which he hadn't had previously and this whole way finding out that there's a warrant attempting to figure out the geographical limitations on the warrant calling for backup well being alert for backup calling for a canine unit informing the canine unit and informing the backup officer who arrived what was going on letting th hallway and mr offered know what was not what was going on with the bond situation finding out that is how we had luggage in the car which at that point you know had to deal with and at the same time he's also i don't want to forget he's still observing that there's a large number of i phones there's a large number of expensive there's a large amount of x and he says nothing about that i mean but this isn't one of those cases where the officer says the minute i looked into the car i saw a problem whether the problem is the smell of drugs or whether the problem is a gun in sight or whether the problems lots of merchandise in the back seat he doesn't say that so why should we rely on that fact well your honor during the suppression hearing he does say that he twice  looked during the course of the stop into the backseat and note it's this amount of merchandise so i think that that is something he was looking at but i think naturally also it was just one factor you know he looked in the thought that's unusual usually people don't have  and there are other factors he noticed he looked at the age gap he thought that their stories were inconsistent that annoyed me actually looking at the age gap maybe some older woman you know the thought that maybe i could be in a car with judge scudder and people wouldn't think all right thank you very much and  thank you very much for your he