mean that the both the coroner and our own ass heard dr starr both found that there was and that mr gardner had made complaints that i should have is any of the classic symptoms of millan no book what are the class it why don't we start with you're telling me what the classic symptoms of melanoma or no i don't think we  what the record tells us what it shows i wish i can pull out their expert reports and tell you that there's there are literally six or seven different expert reports and they all jeff are on what the expression duration prior to the old with death of a patient it's believed that there were also differing opinions on this file your honor contained within a different expert report sign on what that would be was a very high likely had died mr gardner would either have lived at least five years or would still be alive today thank you or is it should have been apparent or even  had some obligation to respond so what is it that was there we have evidence of if they were deliberately indifferent to so very gardiner actually filed a kite saying that he was extreme pain he believed he had a dislocated back when i think that some part until now it is that mr gardner had a very advanced case of bipolar schizophrenia which was not taking medications said that is correct your honor and the day before they were supposed to have a regularly scheduled visit with mr gardner however that never occurred because he didn't answer the door even  in a holding cell where he was supposed to be monitored every fifteen to thirty minutes through a small obando but nevertheless the nurse now find it alarming that he didn't answer the door to medical treatment and i believe that's probably not as sophisticated as a person who was either not in flint to buy a color schizophrenia or someone who was actually taking their medication might have  goes you can't just show the view individuals in the present themselves were actually deliberately indifferent which you may or may not have been but even assuming for the moment that the individuals in that the policy whether officers were trained by now care is disputed and and whether they were being trained to look for health conditions that might tell them hey we need to call it now here there's someone here that you know that was completed they don't make allegations about there being inadequate mental health care and the court below magistrate means she correctly granted summary judgment for the defendants using the correct standard she used the ject of standard for deliberate indifference as the evidence produced in this case failed to demonstrate a constitutional violation of his right to receive adequate medical noted that there was no evidence in the record indicating that this young man had symptoms of a bacterial infection malignant melanoma or any other serious medical condition before january st when he was found in the cell on the floor with this one arm and he was immediately sent out to the hospital but what obligation if any did your client have to do is sort of a love mental health but physical health screening when someone comes into your own was any screening done when he came there was and there's there's a you know the party stipulated into evidence the now care records and in those records there is evidence that there was an initial screening performed he was checked for his overall medical care is dental care as well as does not sell health care he had been in the job before so they knew about mental illness so he was he was immedi with mental health services and he was also instructed as all inmates are on the system should you need to if you need to access the medical care system after that initial screening was he discovered t in such trouble that they then figured out he had to go to the hospital how much how much time six months later it was only when he was found to have it he was unable to get up and i think that's a very it's a good point to bring up because the evidence in this case that was considered by the magistrate me was that that morning on january st mr garner was able to have his breakfast and have his lunch and it wasn't tell he was seen that evening when officer o'barr came in and saw him and fifty five dollars shows that the staff went and visited him and the said there were no significant physical findings found on that day and he was told hey get motoring or advil from the canteen it wasn't going to be a serious medical condition based on the evidence in this case now was was interesting also on that date he also expressed having suicide live you know he was also seen by mental health providers and they don't notice they don't note any sort of physical condition and no there weren't and what's what's key was a key piece of evidence on that point is even when he gets to the hospital university medical center they can see they've seen no evidence there's no extra no evidence  spreading growing things along those lines you have none of that in this case and even the quarter found that there was no external was no extra no evidence of melanoma it was a very unusual presentation nothing that would have been up to a lay person that he had a serious medical condition going on so you know when you when you look at the totality of everything the magistrate being looked at with respect to the evidence in this case it really was not until january st that we've got an issue that says is this this is her this person he needs some urgent medical care now and you know in key really key on that point is he was seen on the eighteen by a mental health provider and there was no complaints of any sort of pain or swelling on that day the next day on january th he's seen by psychiatry us because he had expressed some suicidal ideation so they put him back in isolation and there's no complaints to the psychiatry on that day that he's having any sort of pain swelling or any sort of complications that you would be consistent what was what was found on the st you know again again the next day on the th he seen by a nurse and again there's there's no complaints of any sort of physical brain or inability to get up walk around eat anything like that in fact they know that he is able to and that he is feeling generally ok in fact on that day he wanted to move back to the general population and he was so it's interesting that there is and then during the time he was there sitting there were about sixty six times he had contact with the with the health providers  coroner found that he did not exhibit any external signs of melanoma just when you have a opportunity to see that as the court understands this is a deliberate indifference to serious medical needs the high standard of proof is and typically in these cases we see arguments being made that treatment was denied the treatment was delayed that there was interference with treatment or that there was somehow  failure to investigate a known medical condition such that you know you've got to where you need to go in terms of treatment we don't have any of that in this case instead  he referring here to a quote i think from a robert that quote though i was only able to look at him momentarily that statement was made at a court hearing in late december i don't have the exact today in front of me but i believe that it predated his kite however i would point out to the court that the same day of that court hearing garrett spoke with his parents that the affianced in that affidavit on the telephone there is no mention made at all in the phone call where garrett is communicating to them that he is we or cannot care for himself or needs medical treatments or that he needs help in any way i am asking that question in terms of minimum twenty five dollars days i would say it's less that it's within a month period of time between the time of that hearing and the days that he ultimately exhibited symptoms and went to the went to the was not he was well aware of how to ask for help in the jail we there are repeated references in the records where he is asking for he's talking to corrections officers letting them know that he feels like and he has a suicidal intention that he wants to that he that he wants to see a doctor there are there are referrals from the corrections officers to the medical staff there as the kite that he think it's anything that would warrant further exploration in addition to that from the time that he from the time that he was at that court hearing and till the time of him being discovered in a cell he was seen by psychologists and nurses and minimum of twenty tons he was seeing people regularly for health care whether it w psychological care or just general you know mitt ministration of medication there were all you know i just dozens of opportunities for him if he was in fact exhibiting symptoms to you know to as to say that he needed there's it's inconceivable to him that someone with a trained medical professional who's seeing him during this period would have missed that he was gravely ill now whether or not it would have shown that he was gravely ill with cancer or simply gravely ill which needed some investigation i'm not i'm fairly sure what the facts are to be trusted on that point but it does seem to me that let me put it this way  if someone in that situation had been going into a regular doctor way to their doctor and said you are trying to maybe go along with mel practice this this man was in business and was not in good condition now whether that amounts to a deliberate in me he did not see the patients so i can understand how he could make that statement in the st place that being said that being said even you know the doctors that treated him at u m c said that he was surprisingly alert and in good condition given that you've given them the situation that he was in once they were in the exploratory surgery yeah know provided him treatment at u m c hospital said that it really wasn't even the cancer itself that caused the symptomology that got him to the hospital it was an infection that was caused by the cancer that that be an no more than seventy two hours before he was admitted to the hospital so if we're talking again about the point in time where you know you would see some sort of difference in his condition such that he was actually ill and he didn't tension it occurred no more than seventy two hours before he went into the hospital and that's where we get into that chronology that you heard from nascar's counsel where at that point in time he still being seen regularly by doctors and by nurse and no one no one notices anything and he does not express anything to them about needing help or treatment until the corrections officer sees him in distress and take that that on that day the condition is so much that it could not be ignored it was obvious but that's only what three days before or a few days before he's taken t assuming we agree with you the condition on that day was so acute that no one could have missed it no one could have misunderstood what was going on how many days that he had been complaining of problems for weeks but when it issues we have is looking at now cares records they are face lee unreliable we go into this a great length inside of our motion for summary judgment about how they're saying he's just fine he's not having any man mental breakdowns he's taking his medications we know is that he's complaining of suicidal ideation so there are so many internal issues but now carers records that there are unreliable and to say that like oh they're doing all these help checks and he's completely fine state and we have garrett and his parents and other people saying no he was visibly not ok and he was making complaints that's a factual issue and that needs to go to a jury and i would say they now care here is made very you know very compelling arguments they never made any of these in their motion for summary judgment that was our initial problem that that alone is why the motion for s