alternatively they'd still be there if there were only a wholesale operation yes the be truly firm by common cause as opposed to the shared family cost with this another category but the truly common costs would remain if it also include costs incurred by the firm's operations as a whole that are common to all services and elements e g salaries of executives involved in overseeing all activities of the business in other words it was looking at it as those that are left that that support both  cost which directly support directly hard for people to the retail must be excluded from a common cost because those are not those are not truly common and the purpose of this exercise was to boil down to come across to those that are truly comic before they are allocated recently among elements and services and finally in paragraph six ninety six pages eight thirty three thirty one of our venom at the f c c then said we conclude that for one thing comcast shall be allocated among elements and services in a reasonable manner consistent with the pope competitive have the fifth truly common cost instead what happened was in the in the earlier cost proceeding was there were certain prospect that we need and others intended were were actually correct that had not yet been removed and needed to be removed so that all pulse mark up pc's thought that it was that thought that it somehow had done this for what i call preallocation by mistake was separating out the retail portion not something directly to our cost but somehow did what could not be done it and boil it down to something that was assume that the supply exits the retail market entirely if they're for a voice cost directly attributable to mattel services now some of those costs might be considered common in the sense that we're not by your definition i mean yes no i think i think i understand where the confusion lies are there are in this appeal the parties have litigated the term common cost to include both true common costs which are common to both wholesale and retail and to use a benefits they have ok those people exist and they do their job and their pensions exist and have to be paid regardless of whether the access lines are used for wholesale retail services that would be a true common cost of support expenses for those individuals there's also a concept known as shared costs now shared costs can be distinguished between wholesale and retail take for example the account representative is th percentage of them on them and a certain percentage on the switch so those are shared costs among separate goals wholesale operation on the retail side you also have shared costs you have say a group of sales representatives away when the retail operation goes away those costs go away as well ok and those costs those shared costs on the retail side were excluded from the numerator the shared costs the pasta sociate with the counting on the wholesale environment that is to say we get rid of the retail business entirely and the costs are left the costs associated again with these thirty thousand technicians we're still maintaining this network with eighteen a half million line saying is let's figure out a cost structure here based on an assumption that the retail operation disappears entirely yes and what remains then as common cost what you will attribute entirely to wholesale when you any used that word got are now kind of the cost for those so that's what we put in the denominator is i'm not getting it right you're getting it right in the sense that the denominator is calculated according to  to understand here how this market works in practice because i think that's what you're driving at here now this is a market that works in practice want to pay as you go basis so if m c i purchases ten percent of the network as you well they pay ten percent let's think about the technicians over those thirty thousand of them and let's say there are problems cost of one hundred thousand dollars in a given year associated with those folks doing their jobs which they're going to do regardless of whether the access lines are used by such a delta about retail services or by m c i to provide just if they pay if they buy ten percent of the network and they pay ten percent of this hundred thousand dollars  we don't pay ninety percent of this hundred thousand dollars a group works in a fair proportion each party pays the common costs associated with this network ok to the extent that no that's not how that formula that are in the denominator are the direct cost again of the entire network now you take for example excluding retail costs of the desire of those excluded because they are as they are participating in the benefit from the common costs you are we are recovering we're recovering them separately from this market here's here's the way well that may be that's double counting i'm not sure you answered my question if so if i did not apologize right or not i'd ask you to refute it but what i'm after is you've got common well i then knew you loons we conclude that that sixty eight million dollars did not take out the retail side of a common cost well it depends on what precisely you mean by take out the retail side of the common costs and that is to say rid of the sales representatives get rid of the building they said and get rid of all the payroll associated with them they don't exist in this world the competitors use their network in a way we're describing in the world they have not come back to us we gave them a couple of different opportunities in for them to say that we don't think that we're upset about if they didn't  exactly a logical thing to do but in fact in the world of cross studies has some logic and that is we were asked to apply the telework methodology and i think when you look at this you have to sort of we were supposed to do they basically left a job in the states and gave us a lot of leeway on the tolls that needed to be forward looking but it had to replicate a competitive market which at that time did not exist and that's where when you mention the word hypothetical that we were looking at a wholesale market only now clearly in reality we don't have that situation where since it's just simply a wholesale market but in fact methodology there would be some portion of it would go to the wholesale some portion would go to the retail and we attempted to divide that up in what we thought was the fairest manner and that so you would be allocated but it would be the entire together all of our different decisions in this area that we discussed this well we have a discussion on the numerator in a discussion on the denominator and in that decision we discussed that this is the way in which consider that to be a lot of this is just defining what the terms are and how we're calling things and which is one of the difficulties in this case and i just was going kind of back in a little more detail about what our thinking were we were told the complication in all this is that we're dealing in a hypothetical and therefore it's very difficult and a hypothetical world and you have a real world standing right next to you to sort of figure out exactly you know where the cost should go and i think if you see me you know of any moment efforts to try to do that and to try to listen to all sides as to how that should be done and the thing we just want to i mean in a way we i answered some of that when i was talking about it with you i think the important thing to know that they have that we there were two questions there was the recurring costs and the one time question one if you could ask me a question i don't know what i asked for was could you point me to something in the order or in the writings of the p c that would help persuade me that one hundred ninety six million dollars isn't how located in common cos it's important to realize that the people see me you know i held a tremendous amount of hearing and everybody heard everyone's position and no preconceived ideas of what we wanted to do in this case in this fight thank you thank you direct that was removed but that's that's no longer part case you say in the denominator you must include both wholesale and resell you also are you are you continuing to argue with the category three cost should be included in the denominator we are you order that the civic values have the obligation the burden to prove both the nature and magnitude of its common costs and if so extend it was it's now trying to show that there was some sort of transfer pricing mechanism a billing mechanism internally which already has taken you if you put in there the nominator all of the wholesale costs which are there and you add the late you know cost more than one hundred percent of the costs that are really likely  total of total overall cost of the operations of of its operations ok thank you for the question thank  we have no objection certainly to answer judged on the questions to providing that's what we've been looking for all along now the notion of we should have to bring a petition for modification to do so  network element you can't figure out exactly how much of that goes on the and how much goes on the switch and how much goes on the transport facilities so when it's a little in the denominator you have everything and every switch and again i just returned my initial point