good evening i mean there's allison chair of the planning board and i would like to call the queues day july fifth twenty sixth king meeting of the planning board to order as is our custom i want to introduce to a somewhat diminished number of people the board members this evening chuck clark to my right every few acco to my left and senior can i honor geoffrey wheeler liaison with the community development office before i move to item two on the agenda i want to both explain what we'll be doing this evening because it differs somewhat from the agenda which will be followed immediately much and thereafter by my apology to those in attendance as you see there are only three of us here this evening with three we have a qu we can vote on a number of items but we cannot vote on a special permit without a super majority of the board that means that we will not be voting on westland or middle caught this evening i understand that everyone in the in attendance this evening with the possible exception of mr pinkerton has come soley to hear one of those items i understand the inconvenience for everyone i am very i am very sorry about it we had we knew we would be five we had one member who over the weekend had discovered a conflict and we had a second member who had a family emergency which we learned about today so there was no opportunity to reschedule it what we are going to what i am going to try to do since i understand that there is a urgency to move forward we will try to reschedule this meeting for an evening next week i do not want to try to hold it over till the nineteenth we already have a full agenda the app but we want to move things along on these applications as quickly as possible i understand that is not ideal but i have no way to make it ideal for the time being having simply consulted the calendars of those  present and because in order to continue a public hearing we need a date certain to which to continue that public hearing and i believe we will need to do that so that i will we will we have fully chosen the eleventh that's monday of next week for the meeting and so i will be in due course we will discuss these items but we will not vote on them and there is a limit to how much discussion we want to have since we will need the full board to vote or at least we need four out of five we need a super majority of serving member of the established a number of people on the board so i am going to ask for a motion there is i will tomorrow morning reach out to the other members and try to confirm that but you will need to check the town calendar and see what the is when i come to items three i will consult with the applicant and the applicants architect to see if that would work for  said we move to the second item on the agenda which is implementing the single residencies zoning by last amendment and  we began this discussion last time and i thought that we might want to approach it slightly differently this time particularly because since we are a we will not be moving ahead with any votes that we might begin with a general discussion on the board and certainly k comments from the the mr pinkerton and others in the audience on this which is how how should we approach special permits in the single rest and see just what way and i think the first thing to say about this this is i put this forward in a some mix of straw man and this is how i think we should think about it i were criteria for special permits and some considerations to think about  and i think it would be worth watching through those considerations and talking about how we're going to try to interpret the i also think it's worth having a discussion and this is really a very open anticipate that we would allow many of these ranch houses to become two story houses that is one question the second question is to what when we look at it when we look at the general residence just rick we approached it with some notion of you have twelve hundred and thirteen hundred foot capes but probably people are not going to feel twelve and thirteen hundred foot square foot capes what's a reasonable size that meets modern it's but is nevertheless consistent with the criteria and i think trying to get some clarity on both of those things so at least what we think of as our the board's consensus on this not only this evening would be useful i have a couple examples which i'll come back to but maybe we could start with the criteria which i will just read nor cause other detrimental effects on the neighborhood is appropriate in scale and mass for the neighborhood with particular consideration of a budding properties will not increase the existing non conforming lot coverage if it exists and will not be substantially more detrimental than the existing non conforming building to the neighborhood so those those are the criteria that we are supposed to be using and that's not a matter for debate by the board that that's what town meeting voted that's what we're going to try to do the question is how we do it  so i took a crack at an approach  let me just take one criteria against city i think one of the concerns that the board has with these the plans that are before us we had these concerns in the general residence district  was to what extent as we look at the plans do we see the potential for what was supposed to be a one family to turn into a q family because i think that's that is something that connects pretty closely scale in which one would look at this  dimension and say about a set of plans what's the risk what's the conversion risk and on a scale of one to five if there's no bathroom facility in the basement and no direct exterior exit by which i do not mean that it's not code compliant it gets a one and if we're looking at a full bath with the direct exterior exit it gets a five again there would be other considerations that might be part of that whether we want to try to be to do and this is not a general discussion generally in harmony with the neighborhood i think what do people and how would you go about judging that or i could see just how i would go about judging it and then you could correct then you could correct me if would you like that better than ok well actually actually the answer is that consensuses who are the various opinions about what's being proposed how that will have an effect on them so that from the from the bottom  and so just pushing on that idea for the moment and that would mean that we might have if that were the only criteria we after the  saying if you take a look if you first of all if you if you want to get the opinion of the people that are directly impacted and those are generally but not exclusively you tend to get people that are against more than for anything the other hand you know there are rules and regulations in place that allows development to take place and there might not necessarily be what everybody wants if you take a look at for example that's a very very small house in existing now in a neighborhood that's a very unusual on place it's a very unique place and so how much of that is the uniqueness of the place and how much those that resonate with the district that it's in and what should be developed in that place i mean the point i think joe raised this point which is we can't build houses that would go after world war two  and there is you know in a sense people will be acquiring houses and will be building things that were expanding them for different needs so there's there's a balance in there and that's what's hard to get a hold of in terms of this certainly nobody wants a person to buy a house or a site and not be able to develop it to its market potential within the boundaries of the rules and i think that's where we have to be clear i think that's the sort of one of the things that you see that comes out of the special permit kind of processes is the development  gardens neighborhood there have actually been a number of houses that have increased in size that were not we did not see pictures of brought forward so there so the citizens who brought that original citizens petition made some choices about what they thought were sort of within the bounds of acceptable development i think or maybe they were just you know making rhetorical choices for purposes of their advocacy but it does strike me that there is a whole range there and you don't think i think we need to be careful not to assume that the mandate out of a town meeting is that each individual home owner can push the boundaries of the rules because i think that that would dramatically change the neighborhood so the difficulty is and the rules are not really bright line roles you know they've given us some discretion so figuring out how to strike that balance i think is it is very difficult you know it's very difficult to think about i think it's certainly very useful to have the neighborhoods input i don't think we can rely on it for any number of reasons you know there may be a whole host of reasons why people can't show up for a public hearing so i don't think we can assume that everyone's on board if they don't show up for the hearing and i struggle with what's you know what is generally in harmony with the neighborhood and whether the extent to which we should be imposing architectural style or the like i mean i think that there's the style can certainly be a tool to minimise perception of size and mass but  you know there are some instances of some fairly modern houses that have gone up in neighborhoods that i'm not sure how those neighborhoods feel about those and what our mandate should be with respect to but you know assuming that the size conforms it think it's a very difficult issue i'm not sure we have a i'm not sure what the extent of our mandate is and i wasn't present for a town meeting to hear the comments i don't know the transcript available now it is as well as the video i think i'd rather read the transcript but to go a little faster really no two hours of riveting video most of which was spent on the amendments  so just check back to your so let me take a more architectural side for a moment it's often said well you know that the two bedroom the two bedroom one bath house with a kitchen and a living room is just a nonstarter it's not commercially viable people don't want to build them people don't want to buy them you can't have you just can't do that these days and i thought my my hansard that is all right so do you think a four bedroom house with three bathrooms a living room a living room dining area and eat in kitchen and a family room do you think that's commercially viable and i think most people would say yeah four bedroom three bath family room living room dining area even kitchen and some basement storage space is commercially viable and so how many square feet do you need for that and the answer is if you have the right architect one thousand seven hundred seventeen square feet you've just got to build a bright the reason i am so certain that you can fit it into seventeen hundred seven hundred square feet oh mr curl up you don't you do you really want to have an argument with walter gropius you haven't you have the advantage that you're alive but you can fit it all in so it i think part of it is a matter of architectural style and design  mean you'll have the opportunity to respond to the powerhouse in just a moment mr curl up but mike the point is that we certainly permeated a waverley parish you know we've certainly permit it houses that are in the eighteen to twenty two hundred square feet that are highly marketable we've seen that so th question of how much you need to push the on below and how much you can take consistent with the relatively large scale of their only complete small scale neighborhood i think is  i think you can i think you can keep it very marketable and fairly small again just chucked in terms of just time trying to get a grip on that and not to take the board in such a statistical direction that we are left with this set of decisions that the four statisticians and seventeen economists in town think are kind of interesting but doesn't work for anybody else one if i look at the standard one of the things that one can do is look at the standard deviation and i think one of the reasons that we aren't seeing a lot of it one of the questions i ask it is is it within one's bill shaped curve standard deviation is it within one standard deviation of the  neighbor of the sort of the close in neighborhood and that turned out to be a really good prediction predictor of whether people are unhappy about the house or not which small it's such a small  units single family houses which some people do and some people buying houses outside of government places for that that are bigger than the houses that they moved from then you have to have some sort of aggregate housing and you have to have some sort of apartments or something like start seeing a shift from the concentrated housing of empty nesters in condo developments and you know assisted living complexes there continuous care units and getting more into the well cambridge village for example and other kinds of neighborhood accommodations for older people who are living and housing so that in fact a cluster sustains the independent living in a freestanding home i think a lot of empty nesters are looking for that kind of opportunity so so there's a there is a potentially demand it's clearly however not going to be the same sale price as the four bedroom and then that we've got this balance along those lines the second thing is that coming down the road is a piece of legislation from the state legislature and that's going to be talking about all kinds of things that are relevant to this discussion so i think we need to keep one eye in the rearview mirror at that one coming up as well thank you i think i said ice that i mean i think that's very interesting you know kinds of things and what the state is going to come is they're going to push more density which is which is fine from my point of view in terms of this thought what you have going up against shoes you if you have the prices for develop a whole lot in belmont pushing up against your costs and wh you can actually do so in other words you have the market pushing up against that so unless you will how much you have specific areas the cure for the market increasing like that if you want to do something like that is you have to give the developer concessions and the big concession that you give is density you know me just as a matter of sheer of sheer economics that isn't correct the where is the a p honors economics class now that we need them they are on summer break the the price of the price of land is a day to ride demand it depends on the size of the house and the kind of house you could build on that property and if we said no houses over two thousand square feet in single rest and see can be built the price and what the market is doing when you see people buying houses and paying the prices that they're paying for those houses there's i mean that's the inferred demand and that's very clear when you begin to regulate things that and then i'm going to sit down and then it's open mike and in it's open night so the there is a bandwidth of the size of houses on on these small lots where the the price is pretty is not very elastic and we noticed this in the show hinge or neighborhood there are houses there that were very much bigger than others and we've had to barbara's point there are houses that were not so bad they're bigger but they're not so bad there's a bungalow there that looks terrific and it's got three bedrooms and two three baths and it's i mean it seems to accommodate the family quite well  there are thirty two foot high larger houses thirty four feet high large houses that are that are not so front and the price is that those went to sold for are not significantly different from the prices really seriously large houses went for in fact in talking to the developer of one of them one of our poster children he very much regretted the fact that he had built a house so large because it was on that it took a long time for him to sell it he had a hard time selling the oversized home right in the diamond if you will in the you're not the rough but the the outlier in the neighborhood was hard to sell and so he ended up taking a hit on the price and he was back to where he would have been had he not built it quite so large so somewhere in that soup is what i think town meeting is is what i would think as a town meeting member we're trying to drive to we're not trying to to prevent development or prevent people from making a living or or prevent people from buying the it's a small sample would would bear out that people aren't going to lose money by scaling back the houses and doing a little bit better job architecture on things i honestly think that in fact one of the cases in front of you is on the way toward doing that mister norman curl up architect i live twenty one half road belmont i live in a three bedroom ranch and i twenty years ago converted to a screen porch into a family that will sigh of just about two thousand square feet the bedrooms out about one hundred twenty square feet the kitchen is about one hundred square feet i did not expand my house because i financially has but that's not the issue i would like to bring to the attention whatever we do here whatever we decide the market conditions will adjust itself some people will lose money in that process some people may not lose money i know what i can't hear he put the house on market and he's not able to sell it for the same price because of the distinctions now we're talking about so as you said there will be some hit on the market value of properties but what i look at this as a resident the main issue in front of us by the way i'm also a town planet i post graduate in town planning the site architecture what that should be an out of primary attention when i was working on gentrification process in in london one of the things we did we provided incentives to homeowners so that they improve their properties and we don't i don't grants to to make that possible at this point there is no architected in these districts so if we try to conform to something there's nothing to conform to the less you come up from scratch and you say well these are the standards we're looking for so having all said the whole process at this point is very subjective and that's why the meetings are taking so long because we live in a democratic society people have different opinions deep different approaches different likes and dislikes but there should be also some learning process given to the residence when such an application is provided as much as that is a learning process that the applicant is going through we should have that the same with the neighborhoods and i'm doing that now and bos'n in roxbury area because there are too many condos being developed we're meeting with neighborhood associations to try to develop standards to understand what they're looking for so i think this is kind of immor we're all issue rather than you know approving an application and trying to see what we like and we don't like it made a quieter more effort and we're looking for effort because our taxes went up thirty percent and i own two properties so that's a lot of money for our family at this point so we're looking at towards a new outlook that you have to look into to make things at the lot size of the house is that they want to put these because on these small lots i live around the corner from westland i grew up in that neighborhood think oh my god how can you put such a big house on a little lot and you know i think of things like fire i mean if any of these houses going up the so close i don't know you know you see these you know houses that are close together in other towns and one house goes up and the one next door goes up or there they have damage to it i think that's one consideration the other thing that i've heard people say is you know you're going to have a house that someone could buy in a builder could develop you know it's not always about what builders can develop it's about what somebody can buy and they can then ahead of time before they buy the piece of property know that this is what they would be allowed to do and they can get a builder to do it rather than have developer buy it and try to flip it i have a nephew who bought a ranch in belmont he got it all worked out before he bought it everybody was in agreement there were no objections he went up he had a builder he went up he obviously paid for that he paid for the house and for all the so i don't think that you always have to look at  developer come in and do it in flip it can people come in and buying it and then do it within what they know there are the regulations within the town it's that simple i mean i live in i live in this house and i think i'm not going anywhere i don't like the taxes but it's right for me i'm single i don't need a two thousand square foot home so there theories people come into my home and say oh my gosh this is great this is perfect right it is perfect for somebody they were out there not always big families so i think that these other things that you have to think about then you know what  who is going to build it is it always going to be a developer or is it going to be a family that wants to live you think you  road when i purchased this house i didn't mean to build a mansion on it and i knew that was not the case and we came before the board this is my fourth time the past's so times come from cape cod dartmouth massachusetts i teach there in the summertime and tonight of course i called and i say that i'm coming we did review the plans were to go over them many times and  we did whatever the board wanted us to do we complied and of course as i said last time i'm paying thirty four hundred dollars a month i'm not a rich person by no means at all just because i bought the house and i want to build it it shouldn't be assumed that i want to make a humongous amount of money on it i don't want to lose money on it either and i have been losing money on it since i bought it and some are in here where did the you would with a change  i complied with whatever your set well i would any resistance whatsoever and every time that we come there's something new a coming on and i think is the subject to vittie not having a clear criteria want clarity to it i want this to discontinue that we don't have to come over and over and over and i do very much appreciate that send the plans before the board so we're going to review it and give us the feedback thank you i've no argument and as i said i'm very sorry that we cannot be hit with your here that's  and again we are not going to  i think we did have one or i think there are just a couple we are not going to vote but i did want to do two things one is again in the interest of reducing subjectivity and trying to come up with a more structured way of looking at this i think with what we want to do three things one that you have put together another  and jeffrey perhaps we can post this a summary a summary sheet that looks at some compliance issues and that looks at the particular house with respect  it's what the by law requires and in terms of set backs high lot coverage open space and how  neat how well the proposed development fits inside those guidelines so let me let me give one example which i think will clarify it in this area we open space requirement a fifty percent of the existing house open space number is seventy seven point four percent and the proposed number is six with the proposed development as revised  open space is sixty four percent similarly on all of the set that x there is day life between the minimum requirements and the what's being proposed by the applicant i think that when we are dealing with a house that somewhat larger than the existing houses all of those are very positive things because it gives the neighbors more breathing room if you are absolutely at the lot coverage of again  the more breathing room there is on open space like coverage in the sense that the more just goes to your point about how big a house can you build on a small lot if the further you pulled it in green spaces around it the thought here is the more easily you can accommodate a somewhat larger house the other thing as i mentioned was to look at the to look at the house in relationship to it's how large is it compared to the existing houses in the neighborhood and so in this case  it's while it's considerably larger it's seventy three percent larger than the existing house it's thirty three percent this is the westland house it's thirty three percent larger neighborhood this is somewhat different than the way we've taken a look at the general residence district but i think we've said this has to be different the general residence is supposed to be somewhat less less d e and similarly we're looking at how the high compares and again the this is a case where the maximum to the ridge we've said is thirty four feet this house is thirty point six we said the midpoint maximus thirty feet this house is twenty five point eight so it's not pushing of the limits on any mention so that's a kind of statistical approach kind of a a by the numbers approach which i hope moves in the direction that you were mentioning that says ok are we are we pushing the boundaries here or  respond to the landscaping questions that might take the first initiative ok reintroducing yourself ok norman curl up again in the architect and the owner's representative regarding number nine that may need to be moved further back and also maybe need to move because it appears to be awfully close to the property line and also that should be forty five feet and cower for its interest sorry that perhaps if there was some changes to be made that may be landscape design architecture take a look at the plan and to call out what the existing size of the various i'm sorry with th although he didn't specify the species of the two front treats i think he certainly would want that specified and i know there are some species that are disfavored norway maples being among them but  is fine i just had one comment regarding the driveway existing driveway reaches all the way to the property line at the neighbor's side that's why we kept some of it and also all because we only allowed to be twenty feet from the street that's dictated by the adjoining houses so it's a bit dangerous to back up so we were providing kind of a backup space that's why we added that i mean if you'd like to consider that i don't know but i wish we were able to push the house a foot further back the only reason we have the front porch at twenty feet is because the rules say we have to be the same sat back but if you give concentration to the fact that two houses on each side i kind of twisted not parallel with the street so the closest tip of the house is twenty feet but so should we further discuss that with you if i could ask you to return for just a moment supposed to go straight up as a direct exit we need to have two exits from the basement one is the main stairs that i within the house the other one is you either have to put have bal head with the metal doors that open up or you make proper steps of course the proper status is is preferable now the bathroom can be deduced because we may need more space in the utility room that's not an issue if that something you would like us to do i don't think it's it's of any special concern i'm mind right we now move to forty eight middle cut and again i think point the board needed time and last time we met the committee members intended to have a walk through in a neighborhood then we are here to see your comments and further comments and how we can make this hopefully ready for the next meeting of those since thank you though since there was i think more there were more questions and we do not have carl's landscape comments on for westland which in till there is some reason to revise we will we will look at that as well as the tile analysis for all of these properties and  color coding is that if it is bread it is not it is nonconforming it if it is yellow it is conforming but it's right on the line and so when we look at this there are i think this one of the side set backs both existing and proposed plan is take it to twenty four point nine open space was sixty nine point four and  open space is now sixty eight point two i had that's a little counter intuitive and we probably need to look at that a little more in terms of the comparison of the gross living in area with the total living area with the existing with the neighborhood as a whole it's seventy one percent larger  s the house previously had a half bath in the basement according to the assessor's records and my my question is do the design if it is simply on touched  comments and questions from others yes well i guess our way in the neighborhood numberless since that's a new number that we're looking at tonight and seventy one percent larger than the neighboring houses is a significant increase to me and well i may not be willing to put a number on what the mandate was out of town meeting seventy one percent increase over neighboring houses seems high to me and gives me some pa as a big difference from a thirty three percent increase over the neighborhood seventy one percent refers to total living area not to footprint yeah so they going up the story adds to it  thinking and the not the pictures are deceiving too i have to be honest they seem like big on pictures so but in reality it's not a because so i want your professional opinion because they will trust that that someone make a comment how is the  forty eight middle quote in comparison with the harley maybe that comparison will help them to make that assessment and judgment how small is this house in comparison with that and there's lots more it's twenty seven hundred square foot house hardly was forty four hundred square feet it's almost half of that house so that helps anyhow for the neighbors to visualize in their mind how this how small is this house and help them with their analysis i would appreciate that i wanted to time and what will the house based on a buyer's these there and now it's a nice family very pleasant family home moved it in a nearby hood and living in this house so that's all that there is no need to make an assessment or assumptions that this house hardly because it's not thank you and none of the comments made all of the comments made here only reflect the structures not on the people who move into them we want to be really is there anyone who would like to rehearse their comments pinkerton town meeting member precinct seven and not about her or living in this neighborhood i've looked at the plans on the house pretty carefully and i think that the may twentieth revision is  is is is pretty substantial it's a market improvement over the original if i understand it correctly the new height ridge is twenty nine feet nine inches nine and eleven sixteenth's inches yeah and i asked that because that's what it says on drawing a eight but the checklist still reflects the thirty two point five i think you and the and the plot plan will have to be country farmhouse than a new england colonial but it's a better fit than seventy middle cot just down the street and certainly better than twelve hurley i would agree with that assessment i do notice that twelve hurley isn't included in your  most of the homes in sort of middle cot to brighten part of the neighborhood are single story i mean that's that's not clearly the case and this one's on the border where you start beginning the two story march and a half feet or so shorter than the one that's now going to be arguably across the street so this one is bigger even compared to the two story houses that are that are right away i do think that breaking the roof of the garage will help a great deal and and especially given the slope of the property to the north which has a single story but it will actually appear to be taller than this house i think that's that's a good sign house bordering on the south side however is a single story and it's now going to be facing a pretty massive wall in their backyard i mean right there in the backyard so that's going to be it's unfortunate that the whole thing could be flips of that you take advantage of the hill to soften that two story this happened to us over in the show it in your neighborhood something along those lines that view from the south could be softened by some landscaping and the question is is there a landscaping plan for this house i don't see anything is it you know there is it posted yes i couldn't couldn't find it anywhere but ok but so that would be a way of softening that blow i don't know how you deal with it other than setback that the second floor there and i don't see how they would do that the existing trees in foundation plantings look pretty mature let's say and so i would assume that the landscaping plan is going to end up replacing a lot of those sizes from the window the original window schedule they're not listed in the original window schedule and they're all different sizes and i wonder if that was intentional or is that just sort of an artifact or something but the windows on the are all different sizes on that piece they're not hugely different but it's just struck me and the same is true on the south side when does it appear to be different sizes and i also notice that  now on the second floor one of the bedroom windows is jammed into the corner and i want to that was intentional to to do that in the dining room or the i'm sorry the living room down below there's another window jammed into the corner so i'm just the problem i'm having with this is that the drawings from submittal to submittal all have the same date and they have different windows and it's difficult to figure out which so where i'm going with this is that i think the planning board at some point is going to want to have a complete set of drawings with the dates consistent so that going forward when something's approved we know what got approved so that's the recommendation here thank you thank you thank you for thank you for your careful study of the plans i would make there there is i would make one comment and this is solely mine not  in deciding which statistics to look at and one of the things that i did not do was to look at the change from the initial submission to the current submission that that was a deliberate choice on my part and let me be really clear about why i did it because there are some people who have to go to negotiating one o one where they learn this and there are some people who are born knowing this or learned early on that a classic of negotiating is throwing a real big number to start with because there's a kind of human impulse to split the difference and i think one of the things we do not want to see on this for is to have people coming in with very large numbers that are on a certain to be unacceptable because that is a recipe for a long process of very long process that grinds down the neighbors what if you look at the people who came in and got out in one night they are people who said they really meant what they said about what makes sense in the general residence district here's my plan for twenty one hundred square feet in and i'm out in one evening so i understand that the number has been moved down but as i say i am not in favor of letting of of taking into account the starting point because and this is not with respect to this case in particular but just as a general process for the boric it incentivizes and reasonable starting points and gives us a very long process as we grind away number it would depend entirely on the lot and the situation i'm just explaining why that is still why that statistic reduction from initial  submission does not appear on the sheet of calculations it was an implied to forty eight middle quote it would apply it applies to everything that comes before us right but i it was not on days and about it was still on there the maximum amount that we can potentially built on this land i just wanted to remind thank as a factual point the max the the the size of the home that can be constructed on this land will be the size for which you have a special permit that is the law is not inform you cannot build to the maximum of what would be a conforming law which would be a larger lot to be able to develop or increase beyond the thirty percent one has to go through a special permit process and so the and we have the authority to go through the special permit process and in that process we can increase the size of the building based on all the criteria that we have to talk about you know all of the things that we've talked about those that affect the neighborhood one two three four so this is all part of the special permit process there's no maximum  black letter law that you can build on the site because it's a non conforming site and because it's a not for me site it becomes a special permit process and that's what the by law that we just put into effect in part talks thank you that's a helpful clarification check all right we will return to this topic again as i say hopefully on the eleventh since the selectmen frequently meet in this room on monday evening if we meet at the if we're meeting on the eleventh it will not be in it will not necessarily projects and committee reports in light of the absence of those who would be most likely to give potential committee reports i will simply ask jeffrey if he has s and it was a very lively conversation as you can imagine reasons given for an hour and you're going for two hours and so and she has said that as a religious she would love to you know to keep her i think it was a very worthwhile and helpful conversation to have many of them were kicking themselves they were involved in a conversation four years ago when the general things came up i said you know the ship has sailed he does have to come back and meeting and i thought they were able to contain their enthusiasm not out of any lack of affection for us but more out of a sense that they had a very full agenda up ready we were the planning find it is my understanding that the house will not have voted on this by the nineteenth and now that we have another date i'd certainly give him an alternate but i think the nineteenth his way is a date that in terms of his schedule might make more sense session we would then be asking ourselves what we've been doing for the last six months no i think the accessory nine hundred square foot accessory apartments by right affect every part of town two different  station and you know what we're already have we haven't even really fully experienced what the road corridor with its new bit old tree trees in the middle what our lovely are how they're going to handle traffic when half of the state of massachusetts is on the case right it's true actually mr ping i have to ask go to the mike road traffic nightmare i mean i remember sitting in the regional planning meetings about that years ago and there's still more development that's going to happen throughout that area and then what cambridge keeps allowing on our other shore area concord has there and i mean that's just it they're continuing to build up and they're going cambridge seems to look at each development in isolation from all the others one that looks at traffic doesn't for some reason seem to try to look at the bridge wants to build that they want to build residential up close in that area there and then they want to build the biotech side as it comes towards the right that's when we'll also see what ok if if this comes into place the ways in which we sort of work in terms of this like bill the way the town is laid out you know how many multifamily houses do we have what would be the impact or how much has to be the excess tree apartments yes that's a different thing that's going to affect things but we're probably going to have to take a look at more overlay areas like we did in christian square probably going to have to take the most seriously some mixed commercial residential develop developments in waverly square in the other areas they're going to push this is a smart development thing that they're pushing for and that means it's transportation oriented and not in neighborhoods like shark gardens or which does not have a public transportation this will very late in their session but it seemed to be a surprise of a couple of the senate let's call him without the kind of fuss that we thought there was going to be no brownsburg suggested that he thought it could get past learn as much about it as we can assume it's possible i write him and so this will go up tomorrow those who were not with the with the signatures of all of us