good evening glad to see that so many people here enjoying the process of government i hope you're enjoying the process the government will do our best to walk with you through it if you want to start this evening with the roll call please an opening prayer led by our council member birch and after that will follow with the pledge of allegiance we would invite you to stand with us if you'd like please by your heads with me in prayer glorious in every living god you are the model to all who are devoted to labor attained for us the grace to work conscientiously put in the call of duty above our many s to work with thankfulness and joy considering it an honor to employ and develop by means of this labor the gifts received from god from you to work with order peace prudence and patience never surrendering to weariness or difficulties to work above all with purity of intention and with detachment from self having always death before our eyes in the accounts which we must friend or the time lost of talents wasted of good omitted  vain complacency and success so fatal to the work of your to do to your work all for you all for your example or of our god such shall be our motto tonight as in life and in death thank you brian now will continue with the consent agenda this is a list of items that council will deal with in one body with one vote but perhaps you came here because you wanted to address one of these items if that's the case at the end of the reading of the consent agenda i will open the floor for those who want and i then pulled from that list to come to the podium to tell us which i had him you would like pulled off of consent and then we will handle it as it's listed in the agenda so and i would you please read that consent agenda for us item four b to approve the minutes of the october for a regular meeting an october eleventh two thousand and seventeen study session item for c to accept and file executed those of office f various boards and commissions item twelve a one to approve a budget transfer from contingency in the amount of fifty thousand dollars from fiscal year fifteen to fiscal year seventeen to cover project cost for the for to approve a service agreement with us signal to provide one gigabyte internet service in the amount of one thousand dollars per month for a three year total of thirty six thousand pending approval asked a form by the city attorney item twelve eight five to adopt a resolution recommending the sale of the black river breakers one eighty eight in three eighty eight located at black river substation of the riser hound board of public works to negotiate the sale price and that the mayor and deputy clerk execute a bill of sale and as approved by form by the city attorney twelve eighty six to approve the reclassification of the laboratory analysis position to lead operator which includes a new compensation level classification at the b p zero six wage range currently at forty six thousand six hundred seventeen to sixty thousand six hundred seven per year twelve eight  approve and education in visitor program specialist job classification at the board of public works at a zero five wage range currently for the salary of forty two thousand three hundred sixty two fifty five thousand and eighty five per year and amend the budget in the amount of forty eight thousand dollars twelve a nine to approve a contract with jade a construction company in the total amount of one hundred forty one thousand nine hundred twenty dollars to cover this unbudgeted project for the howland energy park pedestrian path and be in a budget transfer from contingency pending approval as to form by the city attorney twelve they tend to approve a temporary right of entry agreement with c s ex transportation inc for the installation of the communications shelter at the seven street parking ramp pending how on board of public works board approval at their october twenty third council  board meeting and with city attorney approval asked to form twelve b one and seventeen eight to accept in place on first reading proposed tax amendments to section thirty nine dash one eighty five of the zoning ordinance regarding the height of assessor rebuilding roads and a clarification regarding maximum area regulations and exceptions with final adoption for the number november one two thousand and seventeen regular meeting item twelve do you want to refer a claim filed against the city to the city's insurance carrier in city attorney for consideration item twelve one point one to approve an agreement with the property owner at fourteen so short drive for storm drainage improvements subject to approval us to form by the city attorney i am twelve efore point want to schedule a public hearing on the requested new facility tax abatement for l g chem michigan inc for wind stay november one two thousand and seventeen and to instruct the deputy city clerk to publish an email notice of said hearing efore point to declare a surplus bicycles acquired by the police division with donations to be made to seventy times seven and also listed in property staff twelve eve four point three to approve vehicle bids as follows one thousand eight hundred forty two fifty pickup truck with a plow from signature ford in the amount of thirty three thousand one hundred thirty dollars one two thousand and eighteen chevrolet silverado thirty five hundred pick ups truck with service body power lift gate in class four hitch assembly from bircher chevrolet in the amount of forty three thousand seven hundred  drive four wheel drive from birger chevrolet in the amount to twenty two thousand four hundred sixty nine and two amended the centralize equipment in vehicle fun in the amount of seventeen thousand three hundred fifty six dollars to pay for the additional of twenty thousand eight hundred fourteen dollars and twenty cents to replace the existing unit trends back up the device with a new r c eight eighteen model thank you anna now perhaps there's an item on there that you would really like us to handle it sequence in the agenda that's the case please come to the podium and tell us which item you would like us to take off the consent agenda we have an opportunity this evening to thank a couple of people that have been serving us extremely well on the regional ottawa county side and maybe we never met them before so we asked them to come down the seating so we could talk to them and recognize them as recep ians of state wide award so tim smith is here as the head of i do a county central dispatch and i had him come so thankful that he has come so he can tell us a little more about these wonderful people tammy smith and alveda i'll come over there corporation that was awarded in august in denver at the echo convention sense than she has been promoted to a supervisor at our county central dispatch and we're pleased to announce that l v to receive dispatcher of the year award from the association of public safety communication officials michigan trapped or so out of the one hundred forty dispatch centers in the state of michigan l v to use a dispatcher here and on top of that tammy smith who's been a supervisor with us for many years was recognized as supervisor year by the state of michigan so i wanted to bring them here and thank you so much in the groups we just wanted to put together a little certificate and now it's a local but meaningful right so for tammy in recognition of your outstanding service to the community tammy smith twenty seventeen supervisor that year of the year dispatch supervisor at i do a county central dispatch the city of holland michigan celebrates your dedication and outstanding service your efforts help create a safer place for the citizens of michigan to live work and travel your hard work and commitment have been a huge contribution to add about county central dispatch thank you for your service emergency dispatcher at the adult county said central dispatch the city of holland michigan celebrates your dedication and outstanding service your efforts to help create a safer place for the citizens of michigan to live work and play your hard work and commitment have been a huge contribution to add to what county central dispatch thank you for your serv you so seldom see the people at those tables i don't know how many of you have ever been to out of a county central dispatch it's a it's a beautiful facility it's a bit fortress like and it's not the most i mean it's got windows and everything but they are they just have a million notebooks all these little dividers situation after situation maps going all the time on the phone and it is it is tension central to handle all of one emergency after the next i can't begin to fathom the dedication and the kindness of these people to walk people through life and death situations with grace and to have people recognize that the state level for our emergency services is a real real honor and we know we have such quality in this community and thank you tim for leading such a great team and thank you for coming in tonight we appreciate all that you do to be some chicken with that it's a break in both right thank you yeah great thank you so much also tonight i don't know if any of you have driven by the intersection at sixteenth and central recently but i drove by there the last week and had to stop turn around and go back because store looks a bit different amazingly different the whole side of the building is different in a beautiful way and embraces the city's heritage and celebrates our culturally rich community your work energizes and beautifies passive spaces throughout the city thank you for your service  the neighboring community as they saw you working right which is wonderful and so we have another little certificate here for and get the church and volunteer workers in recognition of your outstanding service to the community in your city service project the city of holland michigan celebrates your dedication to the community the city sir project conducted october seventh twenty seventeen demonstrates your commitment as more than two hundred church and community volunteers work together to clean and beautify the area of central app and sixteenth street thus enhancing the experience of those who live work play and visit thank you for helping to maximize livability in holland michigan  while you are definitely a very gifted artist and bright never buddies world especially in a place that they never expected to be so encouraged and inspired so when you take a spot like that and make such a difference it brightens all of our worlds and we really appreciate your work thanks for coming in  tonight moving on to special order of the day the downtown parking operations and maintenance assessment we start with that sure let me give a short summary of this incident actually the fourth time i believe in giving the process is that this is before y here to handle any details but i would just tell you this is the annual assessment for supporting of the downtown parking lots the substance based on square footage of the buildings that use those parking lots or benefit from and there are one hundred fifty four properties on the assessment list and the assessment amount is this year is two hundred thirteen thousand one hundred eighty five dollars so tonight you're holding the public hearing on the actual assessment roll ok thank you so we'll open the public hearing if anyone is here to comment about this assessment roll you're welcome to come to the podium name address five minutes closing that ok complex in some areas but when i first worked the snowmelt system and i'll just show you this it extended from about here to here just on that one stretch you know in the purple if you thousand seventy seven dollars and thirty cents and the proposed rate just forty five cents a square foot this one also is based on square footage of the rate this year seven percent increase  over the rate of last year ok thank you so we'll open a public hearing to talk about the downtown snow melt assessment anyone want to greet us and talk about that will close that public avenue the assessment i believe is only for the driveway approaches at this point because there's a fusion has been made to support the assessment on the sidewalk portion that i believe last i think it might be through fiscal year nineteen or either ends fiscal year nineteen so i think a council member club cards at one point mentioned maybe some others that there are a number of things i think council need to discuss with the snow melt assessment and that certainly would be one of them is how to resolve that about the central avenue extension and the assessments that are part of that and just to make clear that at this point along a better portion essentially the only assessment of property yours is for the driveway approach because we deem that a very direct benefit to the property owner the sidewalks office is being covered by the donation part for an ever decreasing the amount of time which should remind us well because as this beast grows and we have now the greater capacity for it to grow we need to have a pro u forward looking approach to how we're going to handle the assessment who is benefiting from it directly indirectly and what this looks like because you know what it's one of those things where if your kid starts off small and grows as the needs grow as they grow or they eat more and well there's just things you may not have  dave pointed out when you look at there's not a lot of programs that we have three year caters that are close to eighty percent you know in terms of continued cost increase and so if i was a downtown business owner or a homeowner and i'm looking out at my just booking another seven percent on top of and they percent increase on top of the seven percent increase on top of a and so we play that out and just to understand what is the model and what's driving that i think we have an idea around some of the fixed capital costs front and they go into this and there's some some debt interest rates that effect that for right or wrong reasons but just having kind of an understanding of that because a lot of the downtown business owners you know this type of cost increase if you're not looking out  implanting i mean you know that can affect people you know pretty directly and pretty immediately to kind of have that sprung on top of them so i think for us to just kind of get an understanding of what that kind of runway looks like and then a plan strategically as we add to the system in places where there are heavy capital requirements on the front end that we can to think strategically what what's that going to look like and so that people are aware kind of on the front end hey there's this really nice thing of snow melt but there's a cost to that and kind of going in eyes wide open for everybody involved so i just think there's some due diligence on our part in terms of communicating what that looks like i know we've talked about kind of getting our arms around that but that's  thought on i don't want to just let something that's had continuous growth you know nearing double digits go by with you know no comment on the fact i think we have a responsibility to come under stand you know what that what that looks like going forward definitely books to park a car for because basically less than a day that was not including tolls etc so when we are buying locally and we're helping our merchants don't that certainly is certainly helpful melt assessment the downtown businesses also pay a principal shopping district assessment could you describe that please assessment goes to support the activities that we enjoy downtown whether it's live mannequins or many other activities or was one just this past week and also downtown so this is just me go support that one hundred seventy eight properties participate in that assessment and that will generate one hundred eighty five thousand eighty three dollars and thirty one cents this year thank you so all the number of public comment if someone came here to speak to this issue come to the podium let us now huge just someone who pays this assessment as well as the money others the p s d is one of those departments because it's not i describe this it's different from a d d a it's different from some of the other organizations that we have and it can allow in quite a bit of private funds to allow it to expand programming and so while they may be in favor of this assessment of change here i still think it's up to the staff to really make that effort to build their programming through private investments which they do and i think where there is opportunity do quite a bit more of that in this particular department so you know we look at what has been done in the past and some of the program that's been done a lot of that was driven by private dollars coming in and helping support the growth of our downtown through that through those programs of love with the p s t does love the people who are participate in it love the programming and would love to see more of it grow just not through  go on relationship i think we have a town down relationship that in some great downtown town relations there we go anyway it's the public private partnership that we have that's making it successful we've got an award winning downtown it shows it's because people care people around here shop downtown they care and it's it's just you know we're second to none as far as that goes so i definitely appreciate the merchants that are down there i definitely appreciate them picking up this tale and hopefully we can continue many many many more years of this public private partnership that we've got and ladies in the back thank you for getting this up thank you mike anybody else it's a lot of money when you add all of that up it's a good as it gets us close to think over a half a million dollars  and that's without counting the property taxes from all of those businesses so that is and that is massive investment and they really work hard to do their best to serve the public and to have creative retail for us and events that bring the community together not just the city of holland but really the region and it is a wonderful gift to all of us so and i could you please call the roll birds yes true yes yes yes yes yours yes dear departed yes thank you so we are on to the traffic committee stop signs along settlers road we have to first have a motion to remove that from the table traffic related items there was a table in motion and we sent out notices to neighboring properties just trying to seek input on the requests to traffic changes we have not received any input on there were no traffic controls at those intersections and so the recommendation before you is to go ahead and put up the stop signs there at those intersections this was brought before the traffic committee and there was support  coming out of that committee so the the recommendation is that staff directed to go ahead and install those traffic controls at those intersections thank you kind of the things we don't think about that if you're teaching students how to evidently we missed yet no we haven't i think you know looking back a store clee there's probably been a fair amount of activity that's picked up in some of these areas where as in the past maybe it hasn't seen a whole lot of traffic so and this is the time when you may come forward give us your name and address and you have five minutes to address council the green light means go ahead the yellow light means you have one minute left and the red light means your five minutes are up if you want to talk about something that's still on the agenda you don't talk now so you wait until we get to that subject area ok so if it's anything else you want to talk about now is the time so you're welcome to come to the podium to address  seems the timing is great with the word presentation to the central i don't county central dispatchers we have completed the installation of a new eight hundred megahertz radio system in our  county this nine million dollars project has been underway for about two years between planning and installation we have completed the testing of the system and we are now using the system for law enforcement and medical dispatch on november first it will be expanded to all of our fire departments in the county of our topography and ruinous we depend a lot  on part paid and volunteer firefighters who are called to the scene of incidents through their pagers a lot of them work here in the city of holland but live elsewhere in the county and in the past we have had difficulties communicating with them to get them to the scene of the fire particularly on the west side of the dunes along lake michigan i'm happy to say that the testing has proven the worth of the called three hundred three thousand four hundred cells and each cell was tested for that single strength and only one failed to get in the four and a half range so areas where we did not get penetration before we are starting to get penetration so in major improvement in our ability to communicate with those we depend upon to serve and protect us last week we've got to do our annual budget for the county thirty million dollars budget which is basically about the same as as last year we had to leave some things off because of revenue declines who are revenues status quo including sanitariums which we depend upon to do test our water wells and various objects systems which we have so therefore we're behind a little bit on that and we're trying to find other ways to kind of patch that together so we can pick that up we've also had some major personnel changes in our county  development director so we'll be out there looking for a replacement for nora going williams who worked very closely with lakeshore advantage issues in this northern side of the county and we've added a new mental health director and he's already provide proof to be a really great addition in bringing that stability going forward in a dish and we would like to also note that we have concluded a number of labor agreements which is the culmination of a three year wage study that we did to compare ourselves to like counties in our state and site of last week in agreement with our deputies six year agreement which is very good it is a civility going forward one of our highlights of the county recently i'll be glad to respond to questions better mayor as your direction we appreciate your service on the allegheny county is in allegheny county commissioner and coming in to report to us we'd like to know and all of you know comment close the public comment then and go on to adoption of ordinances which is the proposed banning ordinance text amendment regarding the short term rentals text amendment mark danner clear the director of community and neighborhood services thank you sir good evening man american city council members and members of the audience so you have have in front of you this evening a proposed second reading amendment addressing short term rentals in the city of how so see i know that there's a number of people here interested in this topic this evening so i think i'm just going to i don't do this very often but i'm going to read the the staff report just so this stuff can really kind of get entered into the record and kind of give the full dimension of the amount of work that's gone into this and and so forth so during the city council september twenty regular meeting council approved the first reading of the ordinance amendment to create this new section which is thirty nine for all five dash two to allow the owner occupied short term rentals in the c discussed the proposed language from the planning commission as well as jumping into and discussing in depth the potential pilot program to allow non owner occupied short term rentals and residential zone districts  elements of that potential program discussed include a time frame minimum separation requirements a cap on the number of potential allowed short term rentals  changing inspection requirements from those associated with the public lodging requirements to those in the rental housing chapter and to establish criteria for the evaluation of this p program at the end of that period prior to all this work in the discussion with the city council as you well know the planning commission diligently worked on this and indeed it was city council time when we went through this whole process the city playing commission in depth review the whole topic of short term rentals forward on to city council a proposal to provide for a short term rentals that were owner occupied in residential districts as well as providing for non owner occupied short term rentals in our commercial zone districts at that time city council just decided to move forward with the first one of those and that is allowing owner occupied short term resident short term run tolls in residential zone districts and that is indeed what we have on the books even april in may regular meetings indeed at the may meeting the city attorney was invited to attend and kind of give the planning commissioners an update as to what was happening at the statewide level of course there's a lot of a lot of things in the news we hear lots of things lots of communities up and down the lake shore are working on the same issue and so there was this kind of a working time just to kind of get up to speed with what's going on in other  communities during the june planning commission meeting plan commissioners held a public hearing felt that it was important to really kind of go right to the people and say ok well what's on your mind in regards to this  they had approximately twenty people show up at the public here in twenty people had registered their comments for planning commissioners and they do have to say the record shows that the vast majority of those comments were from folks that really wanted the planning commission the city council to ultimately allow non owner occupied short term rentals in residential zone districts  so at the june thirteen meeting them the planning commission did not take any action but they took all this information under advisement waited till their july meeting where we reviewed draft ordinance  well some additional draft ordinance language at that time plenty commissioners were not interested at that time in moving forward with any kind of a recommendation to see a council to to allow the owner occupied short term rentals and residential zone districts they did note in this is from the planning commission minutes that in their opinion but to read this to get  that based on how a non owner occupied short term rentals in residential zone districts have never negatively affected housing affordability in other communities in west michigan and indeed in many communities nationwide short term rentals removed many homes out of communities long term housing markets and how they have negative to late change the livability characteristics of many neighborhoods and of reduced local school populations on the planet commissioners were not supportive of over seven to zero vote was to recommend approval of the ordinance that is in front of you tonight so it was just important to kind of get down on the record again that there has been an extensive amount of discussion you tonight is this planning commission ordinance proposed ordinance to allow non owner occupied short term rentals in the c one c to c three our planned residential development district and or p u d planned unit development zone district and really kind of the nuts and bolts of this would be to require that anybody who wants to do a short term  rental in those own districts would need to go to our zoning board of appeals to get a special exception permanent there are a number of standards and criteria that would need to be m and if all of those standards are met then presumably they would be granted the special expect exception to be able to proceed so and so we have great thank you ma that history has been a long journey thank you thanks for all that work for minimum yes my former colleagues that vote in the matrix that's in front of us upper right side is that you know i thought i heard you say it the other day but i want to clarify for me now what it reads there is that both sides of that the owner occupied in the not only that i can't say that tonight owner occupied in commercial are you saying that's the recommendation coming from planning commission or is the owner occupied what's existing the owner occupied is what his existing one hundred looks i'm going to question you at that point because as you just said currently permitted owner occupied is not any place in the city and is not in commercial we yes very specifically ok if i said that then maybe i misspoke so although that's what we voted on the last time we restricted it to residential area owner occupied residential area that's the way or the castle i'm sorry so owner occupied is allowed but only in residential zone district ok anywhere in the city is in a political now if it's in correct your wording your second sentence in your matrix anywhere in the city is incorrect ok so that  the owner occupy when you make that statement at this point you know if we were to take up in an amendment to what's posed are we are we to understand that that that recommendation of not requiring that and that's part of the you know how pretense of you really look that we would like to be able to do wit ok thank you should we go to public comment is that good with everybody's ok there are probably some of you that came tonight to speak to this and that's why you didn't speak at the public comment because you're saving it for this issue if that's the case please quit make your way to the podium and give us your name and address and you have five minutes to address council on this issue so anybody here for that purpose business district i think it's something that is pro business it's something that would bring an infusion of economic activity to the downtown area and something that would help cover some of those expenses that you've talked about earlier this evening so i encourage you to vote for read of in that direction thank you thank you good evening my name is lisa gonzales my address is one four two james street no i know that's not a city of holland address however i am here today before you as a representative of the title insurance industry as well as are the chair for the government affairs committee for the west michigan lakeshore association of realtors i have been studying short term rentals across the state as the chair of this committee specially with house and senate bills that are currently floating around in lansing i also work between holland and douglas saugatuck douglas communities so i split my time equally between the two in a given week i could probably close with about ten to twenty different families on their residence and i can tell you that approximately seventy five percent of the closings that i perform are for second home or investment properties i had the opportunity to be at a meeting with yesterday and this topic came up and so i was actually very interested to hear what her position was because to date i've only been able to read her position in the paper and see her postcards that she's been mailing out so i was very very interested to hear what you had to say in support of why you think short term rentals is not good for our community unfortunately i did not get that from you yesterday what i did get was some comparisons of how into miami concerns of people from dubai coming in and buying up city blocks which i feel is not realistic for our community what i do come today to all of you with is very much experience from a personal level of talking with people who are buying and selling the second home or investment properties when they come to me in there at the closing table many of them are very excited because for some this is their retirement property but they don't have the ability to actually move into it for a few years they can't wait but in order to offset the costs of the non homestead taxes they're going to take advantage of short term rentals and by doing this it's helping them by investing in our community paying those non homestead taxes and normally they have a property management company that is running this forum so it's very very secure the concerns that i have with taking away a person's ability to do what they want with their property is essential the biggest investment that i have is i should be able to maximize that investment and yesterday when we were talking we were talking about how real estate agents are kind of the a basters of our city and they're helping people with their largest investment like anyone in this room we would all want to maximize our investment as long as it doesn't harm someone else from what i've heard this evening and for know from their own research that i've done throughout my community and the real estate community and the overwhelming discussion has been no one has been here to say that they don't want it that it has caused harm my concern is a homeowner is what does happen if people decide that they no longer want ok if i can't do a short term rental then i'm not going to invest at all like the one real estate agent that was at the meeting yesterday who had just lost a sale because the future of short term rentals is on the table what will happen then to the loss of the non homestead taxes that come along with these short term rentals or vacation properties or second homes or investment properties what also happens if we want to make more affordable housing which i completely understand and i know that there has to be a way to do it but it doesn't have to be at the cost of taking away my rights as a property owner the right to maximize my investment that i work very hard every day so with that being said i know there is concern about the schools well we also have a school of choice so there is nothing guaranteeing that anyone that might move into one of these districts that is does not allow short term rentals that they're going to go to that school district they can go anywhere they want zeal and west charter schools so what i have found exp community is the influx of tourism diversity and flow of cash the restaurants that are normally empty on monday nights are packed full because we have tourists here in our city enjoying everything about it so our business owners who are absorbing now these additional assessments for the snow removal that may struggle a little bit more in the winter months actually are making up for it in the summer months when we have additional tourism aside from tulip time coming to our city while i may not be a city resident i am a very proud hollander i'm a lifetime how under and i love the fact that we have the opportunity to make income that some of us actually need to survive off of our own personal property i asked if the right time ok my next just hit if i could really leave you with this there's been no proof of civil or criminal citations i haven't heard of any real complaints so my hope is that you will do a little bit more research and maybe talk with the associate if association of realtors in the people who really have the finger on the pulse  sellers before you make any final decisions thank you thank you a lot has been as a pilot and so he's been all over the world and holland means more to us than i can ever express in the years that we have lived here and raise our children here we have four children  we also own a real estate business we do rentals and and i'm here tonight to support not supporting this i like i say i do we own rentals we have an and we have rentals for the purpose of exactly what she was saying because as my husband is a pilot he's traveled most of our married life he wants to be home and he wants to retire early and be with our kids and so we've developed this business we haven't moved into the houses at first to only put a little bit of downpayment and we've invested our family in this we've moved into all the different houses that we've purchased except for one  and because of what we've seen and what my husband seeing in his travels holland is different holland is different from anywhere in the country and that needs to be protected and i don't think that this is going to protect it in the same way that having people and having long term families in homes making their homes here investing in the churches investing in the schools and investing in the community and in a way that's a long term way  will make a difference and if they are trained ian and people are in and out i know that i wouldn't want to raise my children next to an environment like that and like i said my has all over and there's wonderful places and there's wonderful places to stay but i don't want them next to me and i don't want that for my children and i'm also here representing my husband who has seen what that does you could to communities and places any other comments kelly fickle to a one west thirteenth street i was kind of waiting to hear other people's comments before i said something but one of the things that i echo with the previous comment is just the love for holland and being a lifelong resident and how i just really feel that these short term rentals support that same vision far from just being a place for transients it supports our community i have four different people now who have stayed at the house in order to purchase a home in holland who then did purchase a home just like people have to use a home to travel we have so many people who holland because they work for our businesses they work for their college and they need a short term place to stay i've gotten letters from people thanking me for how it made it affordable in between homes for them to be able to stay  house for three weeks four weeks with their dog with their kids and so they're able to transition into a community i just got an email yesterday from my backyard neighbor saying their in laws wanted to stay for easter and they've stayed for thanksgiving before and i told them well i've got to see what councils going to do so i think that it still supports our neighborhoods everyone that i see that owns a short term rental is so invested in the community still we still know our neighbors we talk to them we're friends we get updates on what's going on and so it's not breaking apart the character the public hearings that we've had that many of you most of you were here for had people coming in saying we in these neighborhoods and far from it breaking them down it actually they find it supportive in their neighborhood so our actual neighbors have come and said no we like it this is great so i think that the fears and the fears a vacancy that something that was mentioned in the study session i know that we do have owner occupied you can if your if it's going to be vacant you can let it for that period of time but there's a lot of second homes two of the homes that are listed that are the people that are here started out as a second home that was vacant or they rented to hope college students during the year and then it was vacant in the summer and they did use it to fill vacancy using the short term rental so i do still see it as something that can help also holland is not a beach town in the same way that self haven and saugatuck are so they do have a lot of vacancy because of that heavy heavy beach draw and then it kind of dies down but again people that i've talked in those communities it's not all one sided some people love it that it goes so dead in the winter they think it's fun but they also know their city survives because of the influence of dollars the talk about the downtown investments and everything i know that the cation  is that i have stay at my property they are coming to spend money downtown and they do the very large quantities that's what they're here to do and they are here to support all the things that are going on downtown so just me again saying some more of the things that i've seen and whenever i see the public comment against i just don't see that playing out in what's actually happening with our properties so thank you thank you kelly an rentals that are in holland eighteen long term units and then like i said our street has a short term rental that's an owner occupied short term owners right across the street and down one from us now you short term rentals when i travel so i'm familiar with  sides of this issue so i do love holland what makes it great i think again are the people and the neighborhoods in it where i feel like a lot of the issues are against it are people who want to do an internet searches and what i want are the problems with short term rentals and you can do any internet search in anything you want to and if you go in with a bias you're going to find opinions and only a short term rentals are bad you can also do an internet search on one of the benefits of short term rentals and i think you'll find a lot more benefits than and there are  drawbacks but if you go with a bias you're going to find evidence to support whatever bias you have so from my experience just living on a street with owner occupied short term mental we really enjoyed it you see new people coming to the neighborhood my favorite story was are some visitors from austria there came to the united states right over the fourth of july in our street always has an annual bike brain with all of our kids be a lot of kids on the street we get all the bikes decorated with the red white and blue streamers and things hanging off of them and they all go up and down the street and so this couple from austria came and they had a four year old with them and we went to my biking got it all decked out in is red white and blue and he was going right up and down with all of them so we had to just can immerse them in the city how on and one what it's like to be have a fourth of july day and we got a little bit about austria so we enjoyed that and just i thought made a memorable experience for them when we travel we like to go into the communities we went to washington c and we stayed in a very your home and quickly found out there that are just not as friendly in the city and we talked to neighbors and the like and they didn't talk at all like on public transportation we quickly learned it's not something you do in that on the front porch in the lab a neighbor like my neighbor joe come next door and when you sit out in front porch and it's an imitation for a conversation have neighbors come over and talk talk to you and just get million little bit so when i them to be part of our bike parades and get immersed in the hauen called culture and get the neighborhood experience let's not try to hide our great city from visitors let's share it and i think that you will find that when we share our neighborhoods that when that detract from our neighborhoods w actually enhances them so when we look at the issue of short term rentals and ask a few things first of all let's examine the issue at hand of short term rentals us not try to blame other side issues like affordable housing and things like that and short term rentals just look at the issue at hand if there's other issues that we have in the city of harlem let's just face and head and let's address the issue let's get it fixed let's not try to look at the negatives from other  issues when we do internet searches let's don't put our bias in there if you go looking for a negative you're going to find negative to anything but that's just do research of local holon we've got plenty of experience we've had short term rules that have been operating for a while as talk to the short term mental owners  talk to the neighbors in those communities and figure out what it's like and let's take the best parts of town like our neighborhoods and show them off to our visitors and tourists and give them an accurate and lasting impression of talent so what's been presented before from staff i'd like to give short term rentals a try to a fair trial is to a two year trial period with a limited number and limited spacing i think the city will be much better for it th i am elaine paige i have a property at five thirty two central avenue i'm looking out and november marks three years that i had coffee with you at the salt of the earth to discuss this issue and honestly i feel like i've been in the middle of a perpetual tennis match and it keeps getting served around served around and there's a lot of emotion then but i feel like you need to take the emotion out of it and actually look at facts and i haven't heard any facts there's a lot of study sessions but honestly if i spent that much time studying in college i probably would have flunked out of college and it's very frustrating because those of us who have invested in our propert s we come here we're trying to work and present proposals and work with the city and it just feels like it falls on deaf ears deaf ears we had a public hearing i brought each neighbor from both sides of my home and they spoke on behalf of how they love being ambassadors to the city homeland and it fell on deaf ears there were three other neighbors that came from down the street and it hasn't devastated our neighborhood i've heard words like armageddon and the evils of short term rentals and i find that offensive especially when it's being used in a current campaign i find it ironic that we have one person that showing up in opposition when in the last three years we've not had any so i encourage you to actually do your homework if you want help you get free help here we have homeowners that have provided you with facts i pr presented something to j pella iowa our sister city they do short term rentals they don't regulate they don't beat a dead horse they have a tool of time so i encourage you guys to do your homework you're serv of the public and i feel like you've done a disservice to this group of people and i brian i've seen you shake your head and as many times and i find it disrespectful on many occasions so i really encourage you guys to focus on the facts take the emotion out of it because there is no there's no record of the police coming to our houses there has been no issues we've had neighbors say they like it so look at the facts listen to the public thank you thank you   my name's tom paige i live at six forty six goldenrod avenue i guess i'm here to defend council in the research you're doing by way of fairness i am campaign coordinator for nancy and  i've done quite a few races over my forty years and i've lived here forty years since i was a hope student and i'll tell you i've never done a campaign like this where lisa i'll be honest the people that you're meeting with the realtors people from that meeting are writing us saying here's bad situations here are streets with six short term rentals two families with kids nancy has received e mails from people from across the country talking about their own experience and i just can't sit here as a former employee of holland public schools were in a moment has gone down by seven eight nine hundred students in twelve years and not pretend that short term rental reason for this discussion is you addressed council you did not address the audience all right students and comments were pointed to the fair or not the issue is for me with as i've done the research of my own with an unbiased just google affordable housing air b n b no bias no project or tips you see the faces of people who've lost their long term rentals for short term profits those are the facts i see i think with respect to people who are concerned about their neighborhoods who've had those experiences those are valid i'm only up here because when people come up and say nobody else up here speaking in opposition that's just not right so that's i just don't want to sit there and pretend that there aren't here people tonight who are against it that just don't want to get into all of this so i apologize for addressing the people behind me but i do want to i'd like to talk about briefly and hopefully maybe as you thought about the issue for as long as you thought about the issue you begin to think about a little different is starts out as are they good for the city or are they bad for the city and everyone and you think about ways in which and you analyze the facts and your research and you start saying well they're good they're good they're good independent if you come from a different bias you say the bad the bad the bad but after you explore the issue for a long time you start realizing it's not about that it's about personal property right that's really what it boils down to it doesn't matter if i want my neighborhood to have all owner occupied homes because my very neighbor might want that neighborhood to not have me in there in my own occupied home and have an obligation and so it's not about me creating my vision of the city it's about me respecting personal private property rights and that's why the state is involved because it's looking at this and saying there's municipalities that are usurping private property rights if you think about it comparative like example if you remove yourself from vacation homes think of yourself buying a small farm and you say oh i've got this great great idea and i'm going to i'm going to make myself a small apple farmer and then you get a letter in the mail account he says no you can't you can't we already have enough apple farms besides we think your apple farm is ruining the our idea of what this community supposed to be we don't see that as an obstruction of a person's private property rights we know that if you want a home you're allowed to rent it we know that long term for profit we know that if you have a hotel private property or a motel you're also allowed to rent it you could be and you can do a better breakfast these are all allowable because they're considered good things and they use the property in a manner in which it's it's meant to be served the house the person it's that simple so i think what city council is getting bogged down with this how do we regulate something that really when you think about it shouldn't be regulated at all and that's why it's so frustrating that's why it's taken two years because it wasn't simple because it was it's it's never meant to be in the first place that's thank you thank you  do i have the right i mean is there pushing to the as i understand it is i own this property if i own a house i have the right to do whatever i want with it i can rent it out i can do but so do the you have as as the owner of the house we've developed zoning within the city to manage things that happen so that we don't have people building putting in a junkyard in a residential area that is why we do zoning that is why we regulate certain things is because of we look at as a collective city that these are things that may not fit into an area same with looking at short term rental are these things the fit in a residential area we have areas within the city that have been zoned hope for hotel motel what have you proud places also pay taxes based on that utilization how are are is there work in this program if air b s are allowed does that change the tax assessment basis for that property it has a different utilization are those is there and i haven't heard all of the inner interviewer sees is there a b and b s going to be paying the hotel motel tax for promoting tourism and within the city and the state those are some questions i have i mean and things for the council the think about and in the property right to me is a red herring that is that is not because there is all the if you start using that as the reason then you are opening yourself up for other utilizations of property and going outside of be to open up our home to clients clients granted are not going to be tourists however we've continued in the past having our home available to help people out i know owner occupied home is different than a non owner occupied when you have an owner occupied i think there's a little bit more pride and monitoring of who comes in and you're able to be a blast sing to people and i think it's nice to be able to have people come and experience different cultural people to share in the community so i have no problem at all with the owner occupied homes the non owner ha occupied homes however i think could cause some problems i would not want to feel if let's say i was back in colorado where we came from and we had a home here i would not want to feel forced to have to rent my home by somebody that i would not approve of there are some regulations and guidelines that we've always had with the clients that we've had that live with us or other people that we've had live with us and i tell them hey our home is a christian home and we don't even do drinking or drugs in our home and we don't want that on our premises we have we had dogs as like we've got to be concerned about our dogs we've got to be concerned about our younger kids or kids are now grown were empty and asters now and it's like there's a difference between when it's your property and you want to be able to have rights of what you want to have i don't want somebody to come tell me you have to rent to these people no i want to be protective of my property whether i'm an owner occupied house or non occupied house i don't want laws to encroach upon me saying i demand that you grant to me regardless of its their race or transgender or whatever i want to be able to be protective about my property and take pride in it han is a grand community people take pride in where they live i was checking into a house over here in grand haven that's on the lake shore they wanted fourteen hundred dollars a week to be able to rent to that place that they were not taking pride in keeping it up and i looked at it and i thought that's a party house she said you could have up to ten people and that for fourteen hundred a week i would even want for to you know do it because i didn't think they were taking pride in keeping that house up so i think it depends on the caliber of people on the property that we're talking about and holland is a place to be proud of and want to keep it a town that welcomes people and we want to keep right in our communities thank you thank you  christine christine decwriter one for nine west thirty seventh street i was in a tender the june thirteenth planning meeting and i appreciate mark bringing that information to you all he said the vast majority were in favor of short term rentals and i was there in one hundred percent of the people who stood up and spoke were in favor of vacation rentals i know that the video is on line i don't know how to tell you where to find it but you can go and listen to it and you can want to listen to many people giving their perspective of short term rentals and i think that would be great i don't know if the council representatives share that information with the rest of you because i know you were not at that meeting so i suggest that's a great opportunity for you we have a short term rental and we are in favor of a pilot program we feel like at the end of it there would be no reason to say this wasn't a good thing regulations are a great thing we have a son who has just got a cell phone cell phones can be dangerous but we put but cell phones can have a lot of great opportunities in there and we didn't just say no you can't do it we set boundaries and have expectations and there's consequences if our son doesn't obey those boundaries same thing can happen a similar thing there are boundaries you've been talking about distance apart and how many the same thing can happen so i just i don't want to see short term rentals denied because of the perceived dangers or there can be dangers if every single house on a street turns into vacant the case in rental nobody is asking for that nobody wants that but just because there could be dangers don't pursue it because there are great things with it i will also talk about monitoring there's a great monitoring process we have a home in saugatuck my husband communicates with the but tensional guests every single time before he approves them we don't allow college parties the people that are staying at our home are multi generational families that are coming with grand kids it's fantastic we couples that are going stay in there we have girls weekends so there is a monitoring of our home we feel that we're protecting the home that we have because you have communication  you can guest ratings and we're not going to allow somebody who had a bet improper like a bad brain so i have no fear of my home being invaded by actually at times helped her out you know meeting guests or cleaning the house and between guests it's been a really wonderful experience i know she does miss some of the other owners have said  contacts and is very much involved with every one who comes to her house air b n b and similar sites do have ratings for the home ratings for the for the gas so it's all very self regulating in there yeah you're not to want to go stay at a home with a poor rating a home that you know doesn't look like it's been kept out and you don't have to and guests who have bad ratings maybe you're not going to allow them to stay in your home and if you do your home rating will probably go down because it will be abused but again that's kind of i think kind of echoing what others people have said it is here your right to use a residential use of your property and it's a shorter time period but that's what these people are coming they're living in the homes they're cooking meals they're sleeping there maybe they're traveling air b n b because they have a family that's really not a comfortable way to stay in a hotel when you want to be able to put your child to bed and still maybe sit out on the front porch and your b and b s allow people to do that someone had brought up a public school decline and i just had to address that because there were like ten short term rentals i think at the height of it ten or twelve so sorry but that really is not the reason for public schools declin hand i don't really think i said i have much else to say just i have seen this been at several of these meetings planning commission meetings and council meetings and then i feel again like it's just getting batted around and there's talk of regulations last planning commission meeting that i was at you know kind of asked to give our ideas for how it could be regulated and people gave suggestions and you know at the end of the day it didn't seem like that was really what people were interested in hearing but you know everyone that i've talked to and met through this process i'm very open to whatever kind of regulations the city would want to to put in place and i just hope that maybe we can this time go back in and allow this to happen because living with proximity i haven't seen any any bad impact of this but i've seen a lot of really favorable things for our city then somebody wasn't there for a while and it was graffiti immediately they came out went on line on the internet found out how to clean graffiti off got it cleaned up got the place looking back it was beautiful as ever if you ever went through any of these houses that are on the air b n b that i know of they are macular they are beautiful they are well kept they again good people i have a stall at the farmers market i've had deford clients that were at air b n b come by through the farmers market they say they go downtown they spend money they go to restaurants they do everything i see nothing but positive from this is if you've got if you're afraid there's going to be six down the block you have regulations that there isn't going to be six down the block you this pilot program was only going to allow a few i you're going to bring in people that want to come to this city spend time in this betty spend money in this city and i to sixty eight general to ave i've spoken to this group before and i think express some of the reasons why i feel sort truck short term rentals do contribute to the city of holland but something occurred to me this afternoon that i hadn't thought about before i understood that holland does try to have a presence on social media and to be with it in the sense of bringing our image to the public out there and paying people to help us do this has it ever occurred to us to think that hundreds of people every day look at the reviews on air b and b looking for a place to stay they're comparing some different things they may look at how they make a look at soccer and i know my own behavior when i'm looking for something i do look at customer reviews the customer reviews that have come in the hundreds of rentals that now add up for the some of the owners that you've heard from tonight are out there on one of the a completely free platform that is out there that people trust because you don't control these reviews if we get a bad review i can't knock that went out of there are edited out it's in there so your real reviews are up there and when properties go through months and year or two of getting straight five star reviews and all five categories and all those reviews are up there on line to be read and they all complement not only the place they've stayed but the town there are many many comments about the town holland is the bees knees said one of my mind set one of ours we would love to move here i wish i lived in a place like this they're saying that kind of thing i only wish i had longer to stay we couldn't see everything that we wanted to we'll be back what's not to like about holland establishing this kind of presence on a huge platform that reaches thousands of people every week with those kinds of reviews of holland michigan reviews they trust because they're verified buyers as we say they did stay there and this is the real on edited review so that's tremendously useful to holland's image that we're trying to emphasize and as we say share our cities and share our neighborhoods and share what how it actually is so it is another reason to not block this off not say no we don't want it or no we don't want people to come here based on those kinds of reviews thank you thank you and than anyone else f the slide is correct so the one kind of got to that though is that the property has to be one hundred percent so it's got to be a homestead property but it can be anywhere in the city but it's got to be the title it ritually was going to be just for residential properties but somehow that got edited out and in the final analysis i just want to let you know  subsection c one to change the word household to family and amend a one and b to change zoning board of appeals to planning department support  so we have a motion and then approval yes and just to clarify for everybody out there it's like what that that he just say because i had to read all these papers basically the way this was written there was a couple things i got that there was some adjustment so  then we're making the motion is that you wouldn't need to take the owner occupied piece to the zoning board of appeals but that the planning commission could handle it so we can believe or not we're not perfect when we put this thing together so i'm making these amendments so we so i think you know i'm speaking first mostly because i know that i'm probably the one wall from my point of view on a lot of this stuff but you know one of the things i learned tonight is when a guy by the name of a gentleman by the name of around those owning and so i have a deep appreciation for the fact that we do have a responsibility to the whole safety and wellness of of the it has put us here in elected office and in the community but kind of how we go about doing that those awfully for me it's you know how do we put the least risk limitations restrictions and regulations in place so that we're not missing out on being safe and protecting people and so things like smoke alarms and you know building codes around safety or are important but the question here is kind of where is the line between having too many regulations and getting too involved and allowing you know personal private regulate at all i think they have extreme form of self regulation and that it's not scalable you can't have more than one primary residence from a property tax standpoint so it's pretty easy to detract from that standpoint as well as the fact that if it's primary residence you're there so if you're if your people are staying there that are causing problems we have other things in place but also want you to come home when your neighbors are going to let you know about it and so there's some there's some things there on that that i don't honestly i don't even know i'm going to struggle to support challenging but you know kind of i'm not as interested in trying to speculate the potential outcomes in different neighborhoods one of the things that i think is is unique there is a role for zoning but one of the challenges is the  i've represented klute south shore drive and what we're looking at here approving would actually not allow people in social order in homes that are the only waterfront homes in the community to be able to to do this terribly and be those homes out and and so that's where for me it's again we're just kind of missing on potentially what the use is and so i'm not as interested in saying let's regulate non owner occupied homes in a zone in mechanism there's a lot of conversation about what the state's going to do and should there be local control there's actually a provision in our code that gets even more local it allows neighbors to circulate petitions when if they had an issue on long term rentals as well as that would be inclusive of short term rentals that if we if we allow this anywhere the neighbors could get together put together a petition and ask that in their neighborhood or their streets or their affected areas that short term hurdles would be kept and it moving  forward and so i think you know for me not we can get into you know you're going to take over everywhere is it is going to be three or four of them well at that that's really not what the conversation is for me it's kind of what's what's the role here in government in terms of getting involved in regulating this and so for me was kind of just where i see it i disagree with what we're going to be voting on a probably supported because it's better than right now you can even do it in these commercials own districts but that's more just trying to move the ball a little bit down the road because i know that if i say you know what i think which is you know what everyone that's going nowhere and so instead of and so genuinely appreciate you taking the time to share your pinions in your thoughts now those you that don't live in the city i'd love to invite you to move into the city so thanks thank you brain and the comments that coffee time that we had was some of the examples that you listed for use of your property at that time i thought makes perfect sense there are no less valid today  an elephant to make change and it's really applicable here because three years is certainly there are things and processes that we have to go through to do give us to do our due diligence and yet coming to the rec inclusion but sometimes this stuff drags on forever never was just privy to another process with someone in a couple of blocks away who is trying to get approval for a structure in his back yard that was over a government that they do when they experience the sort of thing so my apologies to all that you've had to wait this long for some kind of resolution secondly mr page i appreciate your concern for our welfare but i can assure you that perfectly capable of defending myself so you can focus your efforts in other directions on how soul would caution us  from any direction to politicize this issue and in any way shape or form because it's far too important to do that now to my more base basic point  have been talking about proposing a pilot program to allow certain number of don or to occupy operations within the city the numbers been bantered about the point that i was trying to make i think it was last week that we're having a rousing discussion about this seems like longer ago but i think that as we're we've been discussing this and using examples of what could or could not be we've been in the realm of of possibility of using examples of other locations that may apply to some degree but really are not a reflection of this community and it to my way of thinking approach things but if you don't really know what the outcomes are going to be where you think it's going to be dire or is going to be a huge improvement to the community why not try it i mean i don't think the and see if things go wrong or c if it in fact is an enhancement to the community which i'm inclined to believe it will be and if it's a bad thing change of course if it's a good thing you know you're on the right course it's not rocket science i'm not a science or math is not my forte but i learned years ago that the deductive method of discovery is it was pretty easy for me to figure that out so in my mind this pilot program is essential and not to consider it as part of this consideration is just in your plea and there's a couple of ways that we can approach it as i'm interpreting this one is we could go ahead and improve approve our modified recommendation here past that and then doubt we're  told that if there's a new language proposed for a pilot program that has to go back to planning commission for them to analyze and look at to make recommendations so we could pass this com what we'd like to look at this pilot program and handle that as a separate package or as i'm really in the commission's recommendation the planning commission  city it's also recommended that if the city council does not approve the planning commission recommendation which we have before us now slightly amended that city council then approves the outline of a pose pilot this take the short term proposal as a separate entity and as staff to give us proper language and then send that to planning commission and wait for their recommendation to come back and then deal with that depending on what they tell us you know feel more sausage how we do that and perhaps wind up amending what we may approve tonight or we could not approve what's before us right now and then read there's another smart person but this is the dilemma that is before us but i think we need to absolutely for the benefit of the community for the benefit of the property owners considering the implement this study trial program and see what sort of evidence the gives us so i'm going to suspend my comments and you'll forget this time i would recommend doing your first choice let's get this in the commercial districts it's a commercial activity i think would add a lot of fiber and see we probably build in our in our neighborhood commercial districts and have people living there and using the commercial activities i think would get a lot of vibrancy as steve mentioned downtown and the other commercial districts i think it's important for us to listen to the planning commission they recommended this twice i would like to start there yet have the in just hoping to clarify again for ourselves and the audience and i mention this upstairs in terms of which i think in terms of procedural moves here and unfortunately this is what it takes even after three years so if i understand correctly dave i think you captured it if we are to take them separately and i agree we should probably take the agreement that is before us it's an increment that was presented to us and we opted not to but through a little bit of a little bit of study probably not as much study but deliberation were choosing to take it back up now so if i understand correctly i have sixteen on our agenda will afford  opportunity for brotherhood stress to put something in whether it's a pilot or an articulation of a recommendation back to playing commission to look at the not owner occupied within residential districts which many of us spoken to in some shape or form whether that's a pilot or we've probably not as much used what we would call overlay language and some distance requirements d i love living here i love having lots of neighbors it's why i live here is because i have neighbors that have been next door to me for the entirety of my time here in fact not only did i live home with my wife on a street in doubt in holland in our traditional neighborhood to build and improve but then we bought another house and moved into it there was little a block away because we love the street so much and therefore we kept our old neighbors and we've built some new ones in the entire time we've lived there we've built these little lasting relationships i need i believe i've studied this  extensively and i've spent a lot of time looking into the facts in ensuring that this is a conversation about facts because i am with you right unlike others leave out the facts  facts speak much louder than anything else i believe holland is different and i do believe if you search for a bias you will find your bias is i can easily find my own bias i understand the benefits of these organizations and facilities and i understand that the negatives a small number of these can be beneficial i believe they are definitely beneficial in our can our commercial districts which is why i have supported this same language every time it's come out of planning commission into this diocese but i do believe that we are different because we have these really strong ingrained neighborhoods and from my first moment on this council i believe that the best way to have strong neighborhoods is to have strong neighbors and what we find and when we talk about perhaps it is armageddon dave too to use your phrase i wouldn't call it that but it is starting lead amazing when you stay for a week in south haven or other areas that have gone  and flipped from a majority working class neighborhood to majority vacation short term rental neighborhood i went hunting for neighbors to talk to and hang out with when i was staying down in south haven this past summer and couldn't find anyone who actually lived there the whole time they're all vacation rentals and i actually met one guy he actually did live there it took i think i talked to probably about twenty homes did i live a knock on doors because i was really curious about this and if i met a guy who had a really cool car that my kids liked and he like so many changed the neighborhood has changed and i don't think it is for the better and so my cautiousness with this has always been how do we protect and maintain our neighborhoods because as has been said here and upstairs  people are the best asset of our neighborhood and if we don't have people in our neighborhoods living there a long time a long term how are we able to enhance our neighborhoods in a way that's productive and constructive  i having studied this for a long time and having lots to a lot of people on this both for and against i do want to find a way to make this work i do want to find a compromise unfortunately this has become political term it didn't start with this the minute mayor election and there's people in this room who took it significant out of pride in making this a political issue earlier this year which it i it is what it is i think it's i think it's an important opportunity find compromise in politics though and that's why when we talk to our planning commission colleagues one of the things that we had we're desperate for in this entire process was finding out where this council want to go with this and if pilot program is the way to go let's ask them to make a recommendation on a pilot program and one of the issues with all of this is what is possible and what is legally defensible because we're on our side of the city side where we don't want to get into a situation of as we have put ourselves into we have before a situation where we make a policy and in some capacity it is then thrown out due to legal contest and therefore we're left with basically a free for all so in addition to dave i want to be able to talk during motions and resolutions and council members but maybe find a way to say ok pilot program outstanding and then let's for specific legal assessments and opportunities for recommendations on things including  separations overlays reynold they are caps and limitations property limitations or license limitations and i can see limits all of those things all of those instruments are used in in pretty much every city where these have been allowed every city that's tried to have these opened up for a free for all and then try to figure out a way to really maintain some semblance of control have used any permutation of these i don't know what the right permutation is i want to figure that out and i do think planning commission is the opportunity with with our our legal counsel at  at the table to help us make that informed decision that will result in a better ordinance that will result in a board ordinance that is stone cold and defensible in court and it won't get us into precarious positions that that we have found ourselves in the past so i've a very much open myself up to opportunity here i think the city has opened itself up to opportunity  i think we are very much a year round city we moved here because in the winter the cities were filled with people which can't be said for a lot of other vacation home or vacation towns and that's something that we want to maintain we want to make sure there are people living here in the dead of winter in january and shopping in our stores and participating in our kind of me and that requires people living here full time so  you're not what this is for the look you gave me reminded me of my daughters when i get angry with them so i have to remember that my voice is just a little bit louder a little bit lower and not intention to be as  so that being said we've been asked for the facts the biggest fact is is and i've heard it said before and we've heard of a number of times that we've got to serve the citizens and you're absolutely correct and i wish we had the luxury of looking at one issue in the north and the rest we can't do that we have to look at the overall good of the city we understand very much that you have a very interesting intrigue sick interest in this because you are the homeowners your property owners i'm sorry not the homeowners property but part of our job and what makes government work so slowly is we have to look at but at a much larger picture we should you come and say in great everything's fine and we're going to we can why i'm saying that right now was is in some of the comments have been affordable housing and we've got to have people who were looking for industries to come in here and people have a place to live and yet he got it folks the fact is we have seven thousand residences in the city it's finite we're not going to get a larger we have to be very careful on how those get doled out you probably will not find a bigger advocate for personal property rights i appreciate what you part of our responsibility as mr lynn said and he and i agree to a certain extent he's attend a tad bit more open on this and i'm going to be  i'm very very much an affinity but he's watched my voting record over the last twenty one years very much on health safety and welfare of the citizens i am struggling with the fact that we seem to be having a double standard here in my definition right wrong or indifferent my definition what you're doing is a business you have a place of business you're getting money in exchange for a service that's a business i don't think anybody can deny that any other business that we have in the city is regulated mr lynn will not agree with me on the reason that i say that is because in i would tend to agree with him however there is one slight difference here you are bringing john q public into your home and our base is the health safety and welfare of visitors and citizens and residents of this city if we do not regulate if we do not put regulations on businesses in the homes where you're getting profit for that we are sure king our responsibilities that's my core value we will agree to disagree but that's that's where i'm coming from where i came in with the the double standards is it was brought up that we have hotels we have motels we have a bed and breakfast we have that they're all regulated their businesses every one of them has an inspection that we've got a couple of places on the on the highway there that we're having a little bit of fun with and i'm being sarcastic there they seem to think that they can skirt around the be fair to everybody then we have to be consistent across the board so i've not heard any compelling compelling reasoning that these are not businesses and for that reason i have to stay with my health safety and welfare torn on the personal property rights but i again i feel our base is in those three words and if we do something against that we are failing and i've heard people say you're not serving your citizens well if i fail in that or if this group fails and that we are not serving the citizens of this we are not serving the citizens of the i will be very interested to see what the compromise is and if it comes up later i've not totally closed my mind on this i could be persuaded to to have a pilot program  his definition of working in my definition of working they don't midst met so well but we tried it it's been extended so we have the proof there i am i'm going to be open to that but this is where i'm coming from if you want the facts these are the facts that i live with these are the facts that i have to base my decision on just like the facts that you bought your places decided to put it up you had the facts that you thought it was going to work probably as we've had some comments of why don't you come and look at the places i'm fine i'm sure they're absolutely beautiful that's not the point the point is what's on the books so instead of me bantering anymore i think of said what i need to be looking for for the discussion little bit of explanation there for the facts that you are looking for from where i'm coming from like anyone else i don't want to long date as i truly do not today it just dawned on me and i think people will laugh when i say this but it didn't dawn on me i have exactly three of these meetings left after tonight so i will be part of the discussion more than likely wants this come back to you i do feel compelled to at least address a couple things and i think last  i had made this comment i think there is a middle ground to be found here and yes there are obviously polarized opposites and i have always known you to be somebody concerned about that double standard in almost everything we've taken up and in i truly do appreciate that about you and you're very consistent in that i think i said last week i would challenge the notion that it is a double standard it i guess it would be if indeed we just divorced ourselves of any oversight whatsoever for a short term rental regardless of where it was at and whether it was occupied by an owner or what district it was in but i don't think that's the case i don't think that's a trajectory for the us we regulate different businesses differently that is a fact of all throughout our code book and so i think that at the end of the day what we're looking at trying to do here is  what's the proper amount of oversight for a short term rental given its its zoning district it's its occupancy and what not we do that with all kinds of different businesses i think actually one of the folks that spoke relative to some caution suggested that she operates in a home business and invites customers into their home in your point if there's a health safety and welfare caution  right we do and we stopped doing it in certain spaces on purpose because what we did under the guise of health safety and welfare a long time ago was said to any and all home operated businesses must go before the zoning board of appeals that was the way the pendulum swing when people started to work from their homes and it made for a really long board of appeals meetings and i think third floor would probably say you know what we got a little bit smarter and we opted not to do that anymore we took a closer look at what those activities were and what those businesses were and we realize that somebody wrenching on cars in their garage is different than an insurance man inviting a client into their house to meet in a home office or a therapist or counselor doing the same thing and so i caution us to take a deep look at the double standard that you're concerned about and and as we do this look at the proper amount of oversight i think that's the intention of sending this thing to third floor i think that's the intention of giving it's of the planning commission and in this more than likely will be the end of my comments on the matter because come november i'm out there's always five minutes of public comment and  i really believe that the best regulation or regulation would be self regulation that that if i'm going to write my room to someone in my house i'm going to make sure that they're going to abide by my rules and what i want i am a huge i'm baster for our neighborhoods and we've lived in our house for seven years about seven and a half eight years now and i have little kids and i've given them a little bit of freedom to go throughout the neighborhood we live close to washington square the first day i let my kids my oldest daughter and my youngest son go to the store there was armed robbery there and that  last summer and that wrecked that must with them pretty bad and i tell you that so you understand my stance and about five months ago my neighbors sold their house another individual bought their house and it needed some remodelling so they started to work on it and said that they were going to first let me tell you this i was i went to a believer names paul i went to paul's hols and it was very nice it made me tilt towards what you guys are wanting or b and b s or short term rentals and so i had the incident happen at washington square with my children my neighbor saw their house individuals came and wanted to remodel and we talked to them thinking they were going to move in and they were not going to move it they wanted to rent their house so instantly red flags went up for me because they're right next door to us and like i said i have little kids and i want my kids to have the freedoms to run around their neighborhood and play with other kids and me not get any more gray hairs or bother my kids where you go on just all those things i want to have them enjoy their neighborhood i want to enjoy my neighborhood and i don't think doing short term rentals will help cultivate and grow a neighborhood i really understand your stance as business owners i a with the ideal of sin in this back to the planning commission to see what we can come up with i'm open to listen but i don't know exactly how i'll look at that when it comes back because like i said number one is my children and i believe anyone who has kids that will be their number one priority in a neighborhood and for me building a neighborhood is vital i understand being wanting to be an ambassador for the city but for me i want to be an ambassador for my neighbors i want to be able to walk down the street and talk to them and build relationships like us so we've lived there for seven years and we have we have two rabbits that i wish would die and if we go out of town that animal rights people i'm sorry i said so my wife is going to be mad at me but we can call any of our neighbors and ask them to go feed our rabbit to continue to be able to call my neighbors and say can you go feed or not my rabbits my wife or my daughter's rabbits can you go female away from my daughter's rivals i want to continue to be able to do that and i'm a guy who want certainty i want to know that everything routine routine routine and if i have someone coming in on a weekly basis i don't have that an that's really important to me and it's really important for me to raise my family so that's where i stand and those are the reasons i stand was there thank you as has been said we appreciate your patience but i think you can also see that there's a high level of sincerity in this struggle and i respect the dedication of all the different family members coming again to speak on behalf of your family business i understand that and i respect that and i think it's great the thing that we have to deal with is regulating to the worst case scenario we're responsible for everybody and the initial people can be great magazine cover type of places and renters but we have to regulate in order to get on the other end of problems and i think it's been said  many times that the situations are hearsay there are facts there are stories there have been i got a letter from somebody from the meeting yesterday talking about a small town in vermont that no longer has neighborhoods and it's full of short term rentals and it really has been destroyed they don't know what to do it's just a small town and it was taken over so you know we're responsible long term and we like to make people happy but we can't always make everybody happy and we have to think beyond today being happy to what is going how's it going to affect us ten twenty thirty forty years down the road it's a long term type of thinking that's not always popular in today's world but i think it's the kind of thinking that has made holland the great city that it is so we have a long term commitment around here we have people that love to be neighbors and buy property because they want a neighborhood and they appreciate the the dynamics of our diverse multiple types of income all doing all generations kinds of neighborhoods i think or every page is thirty four in the city of holland that's that's really great that shows a really vibrant young city that is attracting people attracting young families making a place that people want to stay want to raise their families and they  those who elected us put a lot of trust in us to help them maintain those neighborhoods and those investments and that type of living that they thought they were buying into when they moved into holland we want to be true to that we don't want to break that trust we don't get it back so it's we're not being we're not trying to be concrete we're not trying to be an educated i think a lot of what's been said here is a result of a lack of research and deep thinking and really struggling because we feel responsible for this decision we can't be as single focused as somebody with a business who wants it and likes the income and likes the excitement of that business i get that you know that's all american but we do have to also have to say people buy a house they don't expect a motel to be next door they don't expect a factory to go in there it's the concept of zoning that says all the cities so so i'm let's let's take a highway will be a great way to offer this opportunity and i think it'll incentivize investment into building into these same areas that can make much more much more dynamic interaction between the businesses and the and the residents that will be right there and i'll be ok if it's you suitcase people going back and forth it's all right in a commercial district it has a different feel will go back to cleaning commission and talk more about the next level so before we call the roll or not as a comment at all because you have the privilege of that but just because we've had so many amendments and changes can we just get some clarification on exactly what we're voting on in terms of yes in front of us ron can you give us the final district instead of a special exception by the zoning board of appeals it would be a by special exception granted by the community neighborhood services department the requirement that you to be rented to one household at a time is changed to one family at a time in the reason we're taking out that tax right is because it hasn't held up  i think it's just a minor stand was a policy reason for that under the statute that allows the on the bureau to to tax the properties one with i forget the exact number of the threshold has a certain number of units and above have to pay that and spare recollection and the statute glass to be looked at it was about ten years ago it was a one hundred that could agree to pay and participate ok thank you with that sure with the remodelling new expansion of the civic center comes new management issues with the civic center the last place here with my ordinance here we go  and in order to handle those two challenges we were asked to prepare an ordinance that would provide for management somewhat similar to how the d p w manages the the city's utilities and the ordinance you have before  and for a first reading and provides first off a definition of the civic center place property to be managed and that would be the civic center building the interior next area the building as well as the parking lots outside an exterior grounds owned by the city basically bounded by seventh street ninth street maple and pine the ordinance that section two dash one thirty one would set up a a board pointed by council to manage the civic center place a seven person board with the next official member on it they would serve three member or three year terms that would be staggered section two dash one thirty two provides authority for the board to adapt  management policies dover see the management of the civic center place a stab a short and long term goals establish the schedules of policies subject councils approval and do other management things perhaps the biggest item would be to look at engaging a professional event facilities management firm to to handle the day to day operations of the civic center or to recommend an alternate structure to council approval of the propose a budget similar to what the b p w does and you would incorporate a budget into you would have to accept that budget but but you would incorporate a civic center place budget into your city budget and the board will be able to purchase items donations for the shine bright program for the d n a from amir allen chamberlain west community being michigan west coast chamber of commerce it is recommended that these donations be accepted was appreciation and expression of gratitude be forwarded to said donors thank you now yes my minor correction and with all the numbers that she  that carries and we're deeply indebted to all those people and their amazing generosity and chris cook from fairly painless advertising he's one another one of those do you d i y examples and how linda there's a problem i think somebody should do something i think that somebody is me and i took the initiative so we will all enjoy those lights because of his work and all those people  generosity so that's exciting now we move to the selection of a city manager search firm look i'm sorry six point two zero sorry i reject that i for some reason michigan municipal multiple bit i'd be happy to read through all of these or i don't know how you want to handle this but they're just they're going off a lot of support contributions for this things of that your pleasure if you want me to read through i will otherwise the report is certainly on writer yet there is a long list of people that we told this opportunity was going to come in we approached a lot of people asking for help with it and so many companies and individuals stepped forward to make it happen and really appreciate all jody signs work in overseeing everything and crossing every t dotting every i and all the staff of the city that worked so hard to keep everything looking as beautiful as it did and  we got a letter from martin from the m l c saying that we were an amazing host and so the people just really enjoyed coming here as as future investors and maybe people who will live here maybe people that will go to whole college maybe people that will decide to start a business here and there and they are definitely left with commercials for those they know and possibly coming back here as well so we  tly appreciate the communities investment in helping holland put its best foot forward for this whole convention so a lot of work thank you and we'll get those thank a quick recap of the city manager search process that we've we've been conducting over the past few months and in august city council determine the criteria for selecting a search for  consultant to do this very important porton search for us in september we sent out a request for qualifications or request for proposal to nine executive search firms and as of september twenty  received six proposals city council reviewed those proposals and at the september twenty seventh study session counsel narrowed it down to four top firms that they would like to interview so we went ahead and we scheduled those interviews and those interviews were with strategic government resources gov h r usa employer group workforce solution and amy cell talent so those interviews took place last week october eleventh at a study session and after those interviews council then narrowed it down to two firms those being strategic government resources and amy cell talent so after the the study session h r staff was directed to call the the references of those two top firms and do some fact finding and that was conducted this past week and then tonight at the pre conc meeting that information was reviewed with city council and the feedback was presented and so now we're at the point to select one of those firms to conduct the search for our next city manager so council has that before them the c evening and then also it's recommended that a budget adjustment be made to cover the expenses from that firm thank you jan yes so we have  mike did you as is up and yes i would this was a tough decision it really was i thought a couple of people last week before the interviews that from the resumes that i had seen only are they executive search firm but they also do an awful lot of public speaking public training across the country the depth and bread wow is you know of all the firms that we have i think they're going to be the best suited for the extreme importance of what we're trying do here amy sell fantastic she really was and that's why she was one of the two firms that we've asked to go to the second step however and there's going to be some contradiction and some disagreement here she has not done public body search before she has worked for the private industry look for c e o s executives she has some glowing reviews i have a little problem i have a little caution i have a little trepidation in allowing her and i'm going to use this is my term to cut her teeth in the public sector with something as important  potentially we do have a couple of positions coming up in a couple of years that i might recommend that she would be used for that potentially the finance director whenever that happens a national search would be a great idea for that i just i have to have that confidence level gone having gone through this once before with the with the mercer group and now the responsibility that we have i  feel very strongly that s t r is not only going to get us the best candidates they're going to have the bix best search but they know what the municipality needs there is a difference whether people want to realize it or not there is a difference between private sector leadership and public sector leadership and that is the public you have to you have to be able to not be as gifted as all of us behind i sarcasm folks but you have to interact with the general public much more than you would be an executive or a c e o of a corporation takes a special person to do that  we've been blessed with the the interim he has set a very high standard for us and all kidding aside and soren and ryan for his time that was here we've enjoyed long well rounded people here i have to have in my decision i have to have a calm that confidence that that person that we're going to trust with this is going to be able to live with that and that's why i'm going to be advocating very strong for us g r they have a proven track record they've been out there for a number of years the gentleman that's working with us has been a city manager in fact he was with the green haven not that long ago so he has the experience he knows what's look for i don't see where we can go wrong with that that we probably can't go wrong i do believe both firms will bring us likely a pretty short list of strong candidates one of the things that i've said from the beginning of this process is my desire to see us find the most dynamic leader possible for this building and outside of this building in the end you make a fair point relative to the difference  also argue that that those differences at times are sometimes fundamental problems in that that the tradition of the role  sometimes is the first and foremost barrier to the problem maybe the best solution that could be brought before us for deliberation and contemplation that's not to say that city managers are bad and can't do the job there's a there's a specific skill set there but what i've seen in the in the building in the past couple years is a is a group of dynamic people that we have right on the verge of filling this succession thing that we talked about this  five and a half six years ago and so part of my desire to see a different type of of leader is driven somewhat by that jim collins wrote a book called good  and most people thought thumbs up on that book a lot of people don't know that he also wrote a monolith for that book for the public and nonprofit sector condensed into about seventy five pages  and one of the key tenets of that shorter version that book was that these sectors that a lot of times we separate have a ton to learn from one another and they need to learn how to cross into these spaces with great agility that i'm going to say very boldly amy cell was not anywhere near the top of my list when we had a much longer list and through this process i've become more intrigued not just with her  struck me there's a modernise i think that emerges in her approach that and i will say kind of nontraditional approach that i've understood of her work through the interview process that i do a couple things one i think she'll have no problems crossing into that traditional pool of city managers that are either looking or we need to divest from  their current position i think she can gain that interest and i think she can easily operate in that space and at the same time i think she might be able to bring us a few candidates that might challenge our thinking and could very well be the most dynamic leader that we could put in place and i appreciate the two year guarantee that s g r offers but i am looking more for twenty to thirty years here because this city's had that we know what that looks space is that we might not otherwise get and again i think at the end of the day they're both going to bring these great great candidates i just think a nice group is going to bring us some candidates for consideration that may really challenge our traditional paradigms which i'm conversation on stations last week ah and i i'm upset mostly because i really can't make an informed decision right now based on just what was given to us in the package i think they're both don't want another government process leading this unfortunately i've said that from the beginning what i've wanted from the beginning is someone and a come a consultant that will bring to the table a new level of thinking for this organization because i think that's what's needed but it doesn't make sense just to hire smart people and tell them what to do with it we hire smart people so they can tell us what to do i want to hire a smart person to show and i have from the beginning because i want someone who's going to come to us and tell us what to do we stand and we sit here behind this you know dyess and we look to staff to be the most informed people in the room to tell us what is going on in the city and was the best course forward and my hope was through this initial process who would find someone who i could have confidence in that would really bring that and i don't know i honestly i don't know so i wish i could be more useful as in this case at the moment i'm i'm kind of angry about it right now so i'm sorry can't help but when you get sick you know any other comic yes brand it's one of the things or of me quickly i just want to i don't want to let pass up an unknown then we are but  at what this role is and the importance of this decision and one of the things that i've spent quite a bit of time thinking about is the complexity of being the city manager in holland so there's a lot of conversation from a number of people that with anecdotes about how it's a special place it's cool it's great and it is but part of the behind the scenes operation when you kind of take analysis and look at the specific position we're in we have an electric utility that generates roughly twenty percent of torque little over twenty percent of our general fund there's water waste water fiber all of those alone or are pretty serious endeavors which is why we have a general manager that oversees you know that whole organization but there's a lot of change in all of those facets that this person needs to be able to understand and operate and have kind of an ability to understand the importance of that place public safety so police and fire and all the challenges that not just in holland but you know across the nation  there's a unique skill set of kind of understanding how do we provide those services well to our community and as the demands and skill sets on that are changing having an understanding of how do you work with the chief of public safety in managing and developing skill sets and talents and services well there there's a number of pressures on zoning on building one development on capital project all this is a we haven't even go to the direct reports and staff that that fall under this position so we have individuals that are union and we have nonunion there's collective bargaining there's development and then when you look at the spread based on our staffing study  also learn unique position we have a number of people that have been with the city in different roles for a number of years and have a ton of skill sets a ton of experience passion and have a number of years of successful career ahead of them and then we have kind of this little gap of people in kind of a mid range when we had a pause on hiring and then we have a bunch of new people and so somebody's coming in to say hey we need to be able to develop leaders in terms of the future of the organization we've got to be able to bring new people in and gain insights into it's extremely complicated position and the demands of the expertise required to do this job successfully are many i think that's probably why we gregg's you know like well hey hold on a second i don't know i don't know i've got a short period of time and and all that's up because this is an easy this is a lot of work it's rest wants a lot of time i say all that because we had a really good conversation on another topic tonight and people are here and they share feedback there's not a ton of people here in this isn't any offense to anybody but this is probably the biggest decision and we've made some big decisions you know my two years but but this is a huge decision in terms of the future of the organization and the city in terms of what the you know where we're headed so todd you talked about kind of that twenty thirty years i think for me that's one of the things that i think about and say ok thirty years and i'm fifty i've been alive for thirty years you know so kind of you're thinking thirty years is you know it's a big decision there's a lot of things we don't know there are some things we do know and so ultimately whichever organization we go with  consultant piece the challenge that i'm going to put forward to this group is sometimes we aren't very good at managing people that we hire as consultants and we going to say well we hire them as experts and we're going to let them just be experts in the we're going to defer to their answers got to be willing to say if the right person isn't recommended ultimately that that we're not going to make a decision to just say well hey we approve this and we have something here we've got to go ahead and hire somebody otherwise we're going to look bad  think we have to be willing to go through this process no matter who we hire and say we need the right person when we're done and you need to know that coming in and this isn't just going to be hey you come in you do a couple interviews you have a couple sessions of get a little public com feedback and you know people share thoughts etc and then here's a recommendation thinks he'll later you know write a check this needs to be a pretty intense process that that we expect a lot out of both of these groups i feel comfortable with with either of them but i just i want to challenge us as were as we're thinking about this that we go into it with that type of of mindset around you we're not hiring somebody to tell us you know no offense but we need to have paid park downtown and then we that we don't want we need to be very clear here's what we're expecting and you need to be able to kind of live up to that and being involved along the way and all that to say i just want to be very very clear in this session to say this is a huge decision and so you know brian to your point and to the conversation happening if we don't feel comfortable then let's be willing to pause and wait and to do some due diligence that being said if we do then plots act and get the ball ball rolling but we've got to be of one mind and kind of pushing through on this that the expectation of either group is you're going to be making involved in a situation that affects the future of this entire city and i can't be taken lightly right yes i mean just quickly i'm wondering if it would be possible to have another interview with both of them as g'kar and with amy so the fact was that both of these were sky e presentations we actually didn't actually get to meet them except on the screen i don't know if that's not in our agenda to want to do that but this is a huge decision and some had a feeling that we're not quite ready yet those who may have a couple of new city council people coming on board i'm just wondering if we should pull back and get a little more time to we could probably add them to the next study session if it's possible for them to travel right we would meet i could contact them and see if they were able to be here next cities i mean that that is an excellent point i couldn't believe that we picked the two that were inscribed and that the two wheeled people amazing yes i just want to ask a question i i want to know or would like to hear what that interview sounds like looks like what we didn't get out of inquiry that we would get  out of a face to face inquiry going to curious what you think i've heard there well i think once you have a face to face you there are other questions that maybe we're in the or we narrowed it down to two of what they can do for us and magnitude as he spoke today of this decision and now the search dog the timeline out but the time i can be very flexible i agree with lane bryant are not one hundred percent comfortable and what the decisions or with the two candidates and i don't want to take this for a long ride but compare three months to thirty years you know of a small window to get this right i think it gets it's worthy of that and so i i know we had that timeline and i'm willing to put it aside or stretch it out or do whatever we have to do to make sure we get this decision like  said in unity and get it right and i just want to add a comment if indeed that's the case and that's the pleasure of this body you know one of those points that was brought up is that there's a couple new council members and i would suggest not next week if indeed that's  to to work on this the downside of that is that we lose the historical perspective of those who have been dealing with this for as long as we've been dealing with it and i think in my view that's important asset to take advantage of the new congress perspective so again we talked about giving opportunity earlier if we c accommodate this in the next week or so in other words if we have both candidates for example the next meeting so we hear interview them and then make a decision we have one more business being of th more intuition that i'm thinking about things here mike i really appreciate your position am the one group that you're talking about additional interaction with the candidate so that would be absurd but just to give a bit of a preview i'm certain my selection  started to and then had discussion and felt and nuff unanimity to vote that we could if we noticed a special meeting ahead of time we could do that or is that not you you could notice out of every has staff notice out a special meeting and then be able to vote on it at that meeting yes i mean every week would be helpful right what do people think of that m to i'm sorry i'm going to have to disagree with that i thought first of all i don't understand who would it was and like we were it was a phone interview that we could not see the interaction at all there was a face to face i sorry i don't understand it but if the group wants to go with them there what i might suggest is that even though the two new council members which are all but a foregone conclusion i would suggest that we invite them they cannot vote because they're not sworn in but it leaves they're going to be this is going to be part of their life in the future i would suggest very strongly that we invite them very strongly encourage them to be at the interview process that we could listen to just like any public feedback we could listen to their input but i would not call for the vote that night something this important if people are this trepidation about it i don't want people jumping into something then give them a week to think about it sleep on it whatever the case may be but go are in this business be ok you're hearing the the caution and you're hearing the reservation and so when it's over ok i don't understand i don't have to i'm one of nine i'll go with the flow but let's not then hasten that by making a decision that might give some time to think about it give some time for it to new people to to at least get some input because jackson cleveland to the neighborhood improvement committee and i see for her first term with the said term expiring in june of two thousand and twenty so it's recommended that city council the appointment of by all the jackson cleveland to the neighborhood received a letter from the mayor's institute and city design in santa fe and one of the lines in their letter i thought was really great they said they would also like to commend our staff in their assistance that was critical to our ability to prepare the briefing book and organize a successful event for the national press presentations to with mayors and urban designers from across the country so they were very impressed with  planning department and how well we were prepared for their visit when they came here and the materials that we brought to santa fe so that that's a wonderful comment on a town that's way way smaller given our previous discussion on all the rental business i would like to make a motion to our staff with all due and empathy from our and here be asked to prepare a potential pilot program for non or occupied short term rentals to prepare a language that could be passed on to the planning commission for their perus and recommendation to be included in that pilot program recommendation could be such things as a time frame which has been referred to already the number of allowed units involved in the separation requirement inspection requirements and or certification requirements you know you ation metrics that would be used to evaluate the success or failure of the pilot program any potential overlay application considerations opportunities for neighborhood regulation and any other items that would be deemed prudent for a part of the program that i'm omitting  have that written down everybody needs to reference that but i would make that a motion point of clarification on the moment sir are you talking every zone that we have in the city you did not specify or you're right you're right i apologize and thank you for pointing that out i would i would ask for this to   motions and resolutions from council members a kind of offense together yes quincy yes i wanted to there was an article that was written this past weekend i wanted to address it was towards it was about city council first of all i want to thank the how uncertain for serving the community for so long and also bringing to light something that we as council feels really important engage in our community and local government this is something that we have talked about numerous times this is something even last week at the end of our council meeting that was brought up we batted ideas around how we could engage the community and so i want to thank you guys for that and i want to also speak about one of the council members who was mentioned in the article and he's been here the longest he's almost the godfather but not quite that status he's been here for twenty years like in the talk about you and  he's on council because he loves this city he loves the community and there's many times where i've heard him referred to the people of this community as friends over mile two years here i've heard stories about him and his wife taken a quick morning trip to myers that turns in the thirty minutes because he runs into a community member who has a concern who wants talk to him about it and that shows a dedication while his wife walks around the store he set in there talking to a community member we recently got a raise two percent we make five hundred dollars a month and mike makes a little bit more now but he hasn't quite reached that six hundred dollar level a didn't want to take that it's not about the money for him once again it's all about the residents of holland and some words that i would use to describe mike would be loyal transparent passionate friendly husband father diligent patient and caring he has helped me and my two years been on council navigating through the government and like i said this is brand new to me i never had any government training quote unquote but mike's help me navigate through a few different things and for myself i want to give back to this great community and you might ask why and i'm really glad you asked why there's there's been a lot of documentation won't say a lot but there's been documentation of what i've went through me and my family loss of jobs lost our car lost our house  i had to make a very humbling phone call to the holland city mission to see if they could help me how's my family that was one of the most difficult things that i've ever had to do in my life and even though we didn't get into the mission because it was jam packed there were a lot of people in the city of holland who helped us there were non profits that helped us they helped us with housing they helped us with groceries diapers they even bought christmas gifts one year for my children because i didn't have the financial resources to do that toiletries and occasional gift card to a restaurant so i c take my lovely wife fell to eat once i got on my feet back into the community i i purposed that i would help so and people that i come in contact with i try to do the best that i can to help them i'm on the board for habitat for humanity and i pride myself on that and one of the things that i've done that i'm really proud of is i've helped three different families over the last year and i have good habitat houses i'm very proud of that and to give back to a community that has impacted my life in such a positive way is the least that i can do so that's really why i'm on council an opportunity presented itself for me to give back in a way that's well beyond anything that i could do on my own i jumped at it so that's one of the reasons i'm on council that's like ninety five percent of the reason i got the paper article quoted me saying that i spoke with sidney and i stated that you know we had a questionnaire that we filled out and submitted and i turned it in at the minute or pretty much and i told her you know all these reasons why i was busy my wife was gone out of town  and i had three kids to tend to work football practice counsel just the business of life and i wanted to speak that stuff too or not as a point of i can't believe you're making me do this not with disdain or accusation but just a talking to share and so i guess i didn't communicate that very well that was the purpose for me making those statements so i want to apologize to use it in the that you took it that way and that was not how i meant that and stop reading it partway through because of some of the adjectives adjectives that they used to describe me and some of my fellow council members and explain to my children who they think dad i'm superman to them right now and i don't want that taken away and you know later on my flaws be cool be seen by them but right now you know they're they're very pliable and i love to be superman in their lives right now and so that was that was a tough one to explain to them and try to change the subject and all that and so i say all of this and it brings me to a couple of points how uncertain it's been around for a little while and in that timeframe we have seen the digital age come and like brian said he set up home watch in a council meeting from his living room during that time the how uncertain has done an awesome job reinventing itself making itself relevant still to the point where people will buy newspapers and i'm asking the holland sentinel to use those problem solving assets that they have that are very good to help council engage with our community i believe if we work together that that can be done and then secondly i respectfully ask that when you describe the local government officials that you use words that are tempered we all have family members that read about this and like i said about my children they think i'm a hero and mike's grand kids they think he's a hero and his wife she loves him and spite of his flaws so i'm asking that you temper some of the words that you use you know i wrote here words can lift her in person or words can her person words can bring unity or they can bring division just like the article says all we have to do is look how words can divide is look at our commander in chief's twitter fee i respect him immensely because he's our president but on the other hand there are some things that he can do that have divided us as the united states of america and i really believe for the size of holland we have done so many and ovate of things we stepped out of the box and we've defied what the world may think is the common way to do things and we've changed those perceptions and we made an impact in our state our country and even globally and so i'm hoping that the how uncertain or sincerely hears and listens to me and wood for the sense of our community show community with island city council see any other comments or resolutions council members