how the department has drawn the geographic boundaries of the area in which the incidence of aids has been measured and i think there are really true issues that bear upon that question the first is whether h h s made a correct decision and relying on office of management and budgets so many nations of metropolitan statistical areas as they existed in my view ninety four and the second is whether assuming  goes from a transitional area are three hundred f f eleven c that's the provision that says you use the historical boundaries for a metropolitan area and the provision that incorporates the metropolitan definition for a transitional grant area says that the metropolitan area definitions the eligible metropolitan area definitions are incorporated the same extent in the same manner as they are used in the definition of metropolitan area is qualified if it meets certain criteria yes your honor and then you've got a provision that says for the eligible to be eligible they should in two thousand and five it is using the most current definition of the house ok so that's the thing that just doesn't seem to make a huge amount of sense why would the stats you hear specifically make a point about using the ninety ninety fo notwithstanding any subsequent change in the founders and for and future years now the reason congress wants to do that it is looking at the incidence of aids as it changes over time and it wants to have a means of ensuring that apples are in fact compared to apples over time so it has said with respect to eligible metropolitan areas it is clearly an expressway set you use the historical boundaries this is an eleven c not was standing notwithstanding any kind of change in the economic or demographic characteristics of the area in question now in congress and access transitional grant areas in and two thousand and six these are provisions th provide for continued funding but for a lower incidence of aids but they really are part of an integrated statutory program where areas that no longer have a high enough incidence of aids to qualify as an eligible natural often area and continue to qualify as a transitional area so in the end it's provides for the very same kinds of services and that and similar measures of the incidence of aids so again have a kind of historical continuity to be able  well as as i hope we've brought out in our brief the the answer would be the same here whether you use the nine hundred ninety four definitions or the definitions that were in effect in two thousand and fourteen that were in fact  census measures commuting measures which is that he factor determining whether an outlying area is included within a core metropolitan statistical area at that time and again i want to stress that it's our position that these are knocking applicable standards but even assuming they were at that time you have to have an outline county had to have a commuting percentage of at least twenty five percent that it quare area and none of the areas that kind of say were improperly excluded have everywhere while the the commuting percentages are consistently applied there is something that trouble the district court the boundaries of a metropolitan new the basic building block of a metropolitan sophist or is different in new england than it is in the rest of the country and most areas of the country and puerto rico and most and nearly every other area of the united states the basic building block of a metropolitan statistical area is  register i believe those are the ones that were attended but then if you just point to the standards you then saying we should use the standards to figure out what the area would be i'm asking a simple question is there anywhere in this record let's hear you in fact was doesn't make a difference because whether we use ninety four two thousand and fourteen the still under fourteen hundred or do we have a case we need to make a decision because under ninety four it is less than fourteen hundred but under two thousand and thirteen of two thousand and fourteen  more than fourteen hundred number trying to find out if the answer to that is in the record i couldn't find ok if i'm not if i could have a minute every bottle and a chance to look through the record if i could if i could use that time to satisfy your honor i don't believe there's included in the m s a in one thousand nine hundred four is and how long can you would have to speak to things like population that city population growth and so forth and there was no argument from itis with respect to that and it is i mean this is for plaintiff as much that was appropriate from whatever year because they had fundamentally failed to treat them like the one with the familiar feel the way that they were doing it so that they couldn't so doesn't that bulletin tell you what the areas are yes rooms in that sense yes ok so but then again if we read the way this being read for what is when each h s purports to comply with the act it through everything to us is relying on a nine hundred ninety four definition of them us a right yes but if you  because so what you see to be saying is that they treated stand one a lot better than they treated us oh sure they did and so that's an unfairness and one probably would argue differently if they were here so has long as it was done in accordance with the entered that was set in the beginning why do you have a complaint because he chose th thank you your honor i appreciate the importance and i apologize for not having this information earlier in my presentation a page forty nine of the government's account that's there is a table that shows the incidence of aids within the metropolitan statistical area and the explanation from the secretary that these levels of aids are not sufficient to qualify for funding as a table that has the data for fiscal years two thousand and eleven two thousand and twelve and two thousand and thirteen so that information it that the question was well what we just heard from puerto rico which goes from ponce because the question i asked is if they're saying that you won't even tell them what area is for ninety four for fourteen and what the date is for each i think what you just said is that there's a letter from h h s saying what the aids incidence data is for an area but every decade in the in the expectation of the new census it publishes the standards it uses for public scrutiny it publishes the list of metropolitan statistical areas as they are drawn under that standards and one point if came in with the burden to show that these determinations were arbitrary and capricious they pointed only to the two thousand and standards there was no argument that and assumed that those were the correct standards there was no argument that the nine hundred ninety four standards were not proper or that unlike ninety four delineations under those standards were incorrect and therefore we did not put anything in the record that document that but nonetheless this is a matter of public record it's readily accessible just as the two funding letters have to go out there is substantial work in anticipation of that it would be preferable to have a decision and january or february or if the court is able to do that we recognize that's a short time respond to look out which is  ponce rather it was produced as evidence of the thought process and deliberations and how you generated that map that was the request that was point one i heard and point to i heard it was the map you can find in five minutes online it's a published document oh and before all the n s a s in the united states what do you say to those two points