council and we have brian birch who is a fellow member on the holland city council glad to know him through that and he's also the public relations director for our prize in grand rapids so we are thrilled to have people of such caliber talk with us about what is community art what are some examples of it what kind of value does it bring to the community this is part of a two part series that we're going to run on community arts we're just glad that you have joined us today so let's get going  the conversation so we have some sculptures with us here that have been at the holland area arts council larmer would you want to speak with that about sure it's these three pieces are actually markets which is a small failed model of the proposed artwork that will eventually grace the the south and of the river avenue bridge there is a space on the bridge that was originally intended when they did the update of the bridge oh how many years ago was that it was two thousand to two thousand and three part of the plan always was have to have some sort of monumental art implement it onto that bridge to make it a little bit more soft and welcoming and friendly they are looking at avenue banners on the poles that span the bridge and they're also looking at that spot that is the triangle where river avenue goes off into pine avenue and there's this this island in the middle of the the road there and it's been it's been proposed that each gateway into the community that being one of them would represent cultural diversity in our community or some of the each of the other gateways into the community would also have some sort of theme that is about our values here in the community so the theme of the river avenue bridge is bridging cultures cultural diversity so there was a group that got together to talk about how we can approach artists to maybe give us some proposals for a sculpture that would go there there are several community leaders who decided to just throw the idea out there bring in some artists and get their proposals we had eight proposals given to us and of those eight it was decided that these three really represented the scene and also it matters whether or not we feel very confident that the our artists can do something in such a large scale because we're talking about something that's eventually going to be thirty feet tall possibly this tall rice it is and so the the artists have to have the the experience and have had the opportunity to do large scale sculptures before so these three artists are are the ones that were chosen to be in the running they're the finalists and we have not decided which one is going to be chosen we have we've had them on hot hand at the arts council in order to get feedback from the community so we've invited the community to come and look at them look at the designs look at the actual the the player and the idea what we want it to represent so we have a we have a display in the lobby and then you have a little card that you can fill out and  put your feet back and we are listening very carefully and co leading all of that data so that it'll definitely inform our decision about about which sculpture actually gets chosen and then of course we have to go into that the other thin the very nitty gritty the logistics and the and the engineering about whether these are possible now so yeah it's not that simple but it's great that the community can have a voice in that too and people can come and look them and think about the concept in the purpose for the art and that whole idea of the public weighing in on art has been a topic that's been trumpeted in this area especially with the art prize initiative in grand rapids and brian you've been closely associated with that how have you seen the that kind of contest that came out of corporate leadership  as a type of a way to build a community what and what good things have you seen from this wild idea to have a financial reward for art that goes around the world when we break down what is our prized mean  and what is our prize do we get a look at different levels of of how that operates and the gauge when is a primary purpose and when the originators of the event of being ripped a vase and his team decided well how do you get people to engage contemporary art is unique in the sense that you and i can have each our own opinion it's very subjective and but you have to have some sort of catalyst to get people actually making a decision or having an opinion and then spreading that opinion around creative communities require people to have opinions and share those opinions and that function was found in the voting platform and that was really nothing more than a way to get people engaged to talk voting it's simple it's american process that we do every four years we happen to be doing it in the next couple of weeks and is very familiar to us so that's that ease that simple ease of use was a functional part of that engagement the fact that it decided who the public vote winners would be  really ends up being the goal people like giving money away i mean we do that again this is a it's not always the favorite comparison but the american idol model of kind of deciding and giving someone a record contract people who actually enjoy doing that they have at it affinity for toward someone or something in giving that person rewarding that person or individual based on their creative talents yeah the common man with the creative talent right he found and  give significance to that public's opinion right right we want the public opinion we're not we're not saying that the art is good or is bad we're saying that this is what the the community selected in some capacity  and we've actually embedded a few more other components into this so that the public vote is as important as a professional's choice so that curation or a professional  has a say in this and then the two of them can kind of come together and kind of discuss the attributes of a particular installation but it really gets down to is how do you get the community come out and do something we do that is a function of public vote the net result of that is a community that becomes more vibrant because a crowded field with people with opinions is a vibrant community and an active community and engaged community and one where investment and growth is possible possible yeah and just kind of focuses the whole community and the world of art and decision making and deciding what value you want out of art what kind of vehicle you want it to be as just in a static experiencers does it need to make a statement of where well you know the one thing that we found is people don't know what they do what they want all the time and i think people have a affinity to a particular medium or style but if you don't expose them to other mediums and styles and they'll just stay in their space we don't know what we don't know so let's expose them to something new let's expose them to you know the works of cyril let's expose them to the you know to the works of jason would know you know let's help them find new ideas in contemporary arts and then use those ideas in their own lives and take that and maybe they can become a better student a better lawyer or a better doctor or they can use the creative attributes that they've kind of learned through these other people and apply them to their own lives and we come become this greater community that's more creative more innovative perhaps more competitive yeah creativity isn't that the answer in handling the problems of the future it's you know you're going to have to come up with solutions it's not always going to be business as usual we can either say oh let's just stop and go home or we can say let's get together and figure out a solution and if we can figure as a society a way to generate creativity and encourage that you know you see so many family groups going out to art prize and you know the people are just packed this year ten twelve deep just trying to see the art and that's just awesome to see that inner generational activity that the family activity and every people group could just really embrace that and it's awesome to see art in our own community here and how into an art is now a new concept to holland we've had people that of kind of encouraged art over the years you've probably met many in year tenure here and before because you've always been interested in art right what would you say about the history of our in holland well it's been just an example the arts council has been is in existence for forty five years because a few people had the vision to actually have a center that advocated for the arts in our community forty five years ago and i'm and  we've grown exponentially from that and also been eight we have been able to serve as the catalyst for a lot of art projects that happen in the community but it couldn't happen in a vacuum there had to be an awful lot of interest in the arts before that to have them all coalesce and come up with the idea of having an arts council so so art has been very important to the community for many many years we're just very fortunate that it's all happened and centered around such a a wonderful center of physics well center for the arts but it's because of that and because of the communities not only individuals but corporations and and the the will of the community to have a center for the arts not only with our visual arts but with the music performing arts chorale and symphony and it and theater in our community is very very much appreciated and supported so so it doesn't surprise me at all that holland is a very artful place you see it on the street corners and hear it all the time there are musicians always performing and and hollins been very progressive in being able to support those entrepreneurial small scale things that go on all over town there are an awful lot of artists studios now who have spun off people who have maybe grown up through the arts council taking classes taking classes in their their schools become much better artists because they've had the kinds of opportunities for competition through some of our shows some of the shows that happen all around our area not just in holland they have strengthened that feeling of entrepreneurial spirit that the artists have now so there are individual artists not starving anymore they're making a living at being artists and artistic and and i think that's due primarily to that spirit of creativity and knowing the importance of a very aesthetically pleasing area and the economic impact for that is huge we are becoming a cultural tourism site now the west michigan area is is is very much a destination place and not just because we have great beaches it's because we have a vibrant cultural cultural scene actually in the entire lake lake michigan area so that's exciting and so i think public art is just one of the wonderful benefits that happens because of that but we also want to make sure again with that by end of the community we don't want public art just plop somewhere suddenly overnight without anybody knowing where it where it came from and that's why this kind of public input is so important there has to be some deliberation and some some engagement so that people understand why it has been put there and maybe have had a part in making it happen so that's you know public art projects like the the one hit public are projects like the pigs on parade in the and the banners that we've done in the avenue banners and i say we as the arts council but it's not it's not just a it's not just an organizational thing we couldn't do it without the fabulously talented artists that we have in this community and that is another thing that's incredible that we have such talent yeah even the tulip time concept now poster contest for the tulip time poster brings it back to the community and everybody can talk about it and then vote on the top twenty five down town and in the glory of that festival as well is community participation and volunteerism and an appreciation for all those that came before us and how we want to build into the future with that with that festival now i heard and t v over this past art prize one of the points they made was that a lot of corporations were scheduling their conferences during our price you see that as something that started happening more that's grown and yet in fact we got a call the c e o s for cities conference is going to happen during our prize no longer and which is great if you're familiar with them there are groups of o s who find investments in urban spaces valuable we've had a relationship with them carol collette it was a former executive director was one of our first speakers of our speaker series and so we've had a relationship with them for a long time although the their conference is not aligned with us it's aligned in the calendar only to hear him being with us ok directly but we're thrilled that institutions like that or are seeing grand rapids in a different way are seeing west michigan in a different way we do see that there's this halo effect that's happening that it's grand rapids but it's more it's it's is that lakeshore community in that place like grand haven are doing their art walk and you know hollywood with the prize and you know we've always seen this idea that you know some of these pieces can stay here that have to stay in the city or happens with they can stay somewhere else and they can have value someone else and they can and they can bring some sort of value to some part of a city that's not always convenient for some of the urban  has to do that but you know there's there's always space for something somewhere yeah i mean the wild success of any one of us is the success of all of us right because it puts the area on the map i mean who would have said oh grand rapids is going to be a center for art fifty years ago they said the same thing about documented in castle germany i mean that's become this every five years this weird sleepy little town of thirty five thousand people or forty thousand people comes alive with international arts and it's a different from art prize but it's the same idea that this weird like no highways barely go there can actually have this critically excellent international art show  every five years and that's what we want to build we want to build that awareness and we're doing it a completely different way and that's ok no west michigan is always the big play and we like that if we can see more of that that is part of the blurring of the line between entrepreneur and artist both bring vibrancy to communities each their own way but if we can kind of instill some of the same principles you know the artists that you're teaching here and in the arts council you know they're taking those skills and putting them into other purposes as well that you know my daughter who's taken dance lessons here you know i want her to take that creative elements and she's learning there to other parts of her life whether it's with drawing or with her spelling things like just take those ideas that there's not always one way of doing something right but creativity means going off in a different direction and finding another way to to accomplish some sort of problem why engaging so many people in the conversation about art you don't have to be i think the that fear of talking about art or looking about looking at art and being afraid that you don't won't understand it like there's going to be a test at the end or something yeah that's going away i think my you got to have an idea and yeah and i think not only the people who make art are a lot more courageous but the people who are enjoying art are becoming more courageous and a lot more opinionated which is great because that kind of conversation is so important like brian says you have conversations about our music or what ever is happening in your life and to be able to express yourself is the most important thing and that's what art and you know the arts do they help people express themselves whether they're doing it or just commenting on someone else's piece  at one piece and say oh that sucks and you can look at it no that's great that the space in between that dissonance is that's exciting though that's where excitement has it's we're learning happens that's where that's the opportunity in a growing society and of everyone having a voice that that's ok and that's good and we're not all going to agree we don't often have to be in lockstep as we go by each thing with the same opinion because someone else is telling us what it is that that is that is  genius i think of getting the community to come around art it's saying you know you're all valuable each person is important and what they think is important and if you can enjoy art it can help you through so many other things in your life and my hope for my children in taking piano was that at whatever transition points in i'll have a bad day or whatever you can come home and play the piano or you can paint art or you can dance are whatever it is that release is that energy inside of you and helps you get over whatever that little heart all was in your heart and mind and i know you know great inventors would  be heard to go upstairs and play their violin or whatever and then come back to try to solve a problem it helps order your mind it release is your mind it calms your mind and i think the value of art in every area is so important t idea of that lone inventor you know we look at that model and where we're not that's not always our favorite concept the fact that there's one guy in a room just figuring something out in could because what we found in is that it's it's going off and own experience and then you take that nugget of an idea or a kernel and that somehow influences your idea you know the creation of the air conditioner work that way that this guy was how do we cool a building with giant blocks of ice while this other guy had no idea what w around something in me that that means that it didn't happen all at once it emerged over time and that's what we see is a great component of what art does and that infusion of the community that you can meld all these creative ideas together  and somehow take something else from that and apply it to your own life or become an artist yourself hopefully you had creative catalyst yeah awesome and you know this area is well known for its entrepreneurial spirit and often we think you know creativity is only an art but that's so broad because creativity is the essence of solving problems and who doesn't have problems we see that in city government i mean it's there's no single way of just saying oh of course we just throw money at the problem that'll fix it well we can always throw money at the problem to figure out a different way you know it's it's the artists who were like oh i can't be an artist and make money at the same time as like well you can have you got to you've got to figure it out it's creative problem solving and that's that's the that's the element of creativity it's given the box that you have and how do you figure out how to get out of that body purpose and i think differently it's totally above the box you know there's a tradition with artists and it's artistic constraints people want artists love artistic constraints they like and meaning they like to have they like to have parameters given to them and it's a challenge so that they can transcend that challenge and make something really wonderful based on those constraints and i think we i think as a society we really do rise to the task when given constraints oh i can't afford that well let's see how what we can do creatively so we can do it for less and make it happen and i think that creative problem solving in that respect is a very very long tradition with artists who struggle to to make things happen and make the most glorious art they can and the most glorious music with the constraints that they're given and i think i know that corporations the the business world is looking for people right now who have a strong arts background that because it means if they've been in music they've had a lot of discipline and they're really probably most likely very good at math because music just music and math really go hand in hand in origin it is not being a music me i want to be me but i mean they're really looking for types of things that only the arts can give and that's why we're starting children before school before they're in school get them into the arts get them arts experiences get them on a track for their education including the arts if not you know my dream is that the education is centered around the arts that is one of the biggest challenges and biggest goals that we have is to center all education around the arts because everything comes from that maybe someday my dream will be realized but in the meantime don't cut the arts out of education that's a very important thing to say because those corporations out there are looking for that kind of person who's been well rounded and has that that  creatively so we've got to and i think our our job here at the arts council the job of art prize the job of any any entity organization that's very focused on the arts is is knowing that and instilling that in every sector of society and that's why we want art out on the sidewalk we want it out there for people to look at and comment and we want to have a town filled with art because that conversation that starts and that's it affirms our our dedication to that goal is to have creative thinkers and really your hope is that instead of seeing each problem as a brick wall you say ok but last year particular they really kind of hit the scene big and invited a bunch of new york people in the town and took this abandoned building and made it their own and filled it with great stuff and they did it again this year and they took to the curators testament of what he's done and that with what he's doing is what we want to see we want to see more of that happen because he's taking a challenging space and doing something with it and making it active and beautiful and yeah i mean his intention what you want to do with every neighborhood yes you know we want to turn it into what it is and help it celebrate what it is and bring the people together to have a community and become a more vibrant place because everyone is important well here's an example of a neighborhood that did that  the south shore village neighborhood in holland did that day that was the merchants and and the residents who said we want we want miracles on all these buildings and they they raise the money they asked they asked the arts council to come in and sort of facilitate it like getting the call to artists out and but we that's all we did we did they use our arc mailing lists and they used our ability to connect with artists but they're the ones who got the support they they juried the art they got all of the artists submissions together and decided what fits well with our buildings they did that all on their you know they and now they've got these five full murals on their building and then they want to do it again to get five more next year and that's the kind of initiative and it brings people to see their it brings people to their to their businesses it's a really great way to pass through town and go out to the lake through through this little neighborhood that that took the initiative to make something happen in their own center which is kind of like an arts council but kind of just like we had community center and he turned just this abandoned home into this place where the community can get together and share meals and you know it's an art installation but it's bedded right in the community and the fact that it's all generated through the community and happened on its own that's the that's what we love seeing is that it doesn't have to happen from a top down this approach to dividing into cities and that's that we need to put funds there and activate that space it's just people figuring it out that we need to do this right now and right here and since a neighbor to neighbor yes yeah caring about each other and coming together and a significant way and and  lly reinvigorating everybody when they leave and to that space it's adding meeting it's any meeting to space it's not just anyone can build a building but you know putting the element of people inside the ideas of people within it that that makes it vital that makes it meaningful well look like c s lewis and his little group that used to get together at the coffee shop and they had these wonderful conversations that generated unbelievable works of literary genius and and the same thing applies in every of art for us to come together and be catalysts for something better i know how land has this little triangle that's we need a piece of art for and we kind of talked about this on an even bigger scale that if we're going to involve public land with public art then you have to kind of drag government into it and we need to figure out how to encourage public art throughout the city so we've been working on a public art  committee i don't know along if you want to talk to them well it was interesting when when this group got together to talk about the trying goal and you know the arts council has always been working with the city on several different public ar projects that we do but we went to the design review board in past in the past we went to the design review board which is just the city of holland's design for the for the downtown to decide o they decide about signage they decide about all kinds of facades for the buildings downtown what it's going to look like just to kind of make sure that things are kept on a certain level of excellence and but with public art that's a totally different thing when you're getting into installations of thirty foot sculptures there is no we found that there is nothing in place in the city of holland that that will establish maybe a set of rules or artistic constraints or how you go about finding out if the infrastructure underneath these is going to hold up the you know the sculpture or are there a line are there or are there of lines underneath that are going to be damaged or you know when we dig in there are we going to find a network of all kinds of things that are going to make it impossible to build there so i mean besides just the engineering challenges it's the aesthetic  from the community that needs to be considered and there wasn't anything in place so when we worked with phil myer merrill was on this this public art project that we're looking at and he's been really helpful in saying well maybe we really need to establish the steps we're going through for this project and build a template for what the next public art project will will have to go through and then wouldn't it be great if there were some very informed professionals you could sit on that public art project that was out of commission that had a wide variety of perspectives so that you're not getting just a you know a small room filled with art professionals saying yes this is good or this is not you know you that doesn't work you need a really broad sector of society that is going to make make certain and you can't say anything but judgments there has to be a final cision made about things like this so so we we thought through this whole process phil and all of us decided you know we really need to we probably need to say that there needs to be an art a public art commission so that things don't land in the middle of the city without anybody knowing about it you know that just that just shouldn't happen anyway so there they're coming up with a list of people to to ask to sit on the commission i think people have requested to be on the commission and i think it'll be really helpful for future projects to have that template established so as we go through our process we're writing things down and saying well this is this is what we recommend that you ask and and this is the process that probably will work so it's well that's it's evolving yeah so it's kind of a public art commission and it is open for volunteers and people are interested they can contact the mayor's office three five five thirteen fourteen if you'd like to get your name in the running for this public art commission and it's wonderful that we can use art to celebrate the values that have made this area great and to encourage future generations to pursue those and bring people together and talk about it and continue to learn from each other and from the past so that's great and we so appreciate you guys coming here today taking time out of your busy schedules and sharing your expertise we often don't have a chance to just sit down and talk about the whole dimension of art as it's been affecting west michigan and it's been huge so we hope that this program generates even more conversation and if you are interested in learning more about this topic you can always go to highland arts dot org the website for the holiday area arts council they have more information and also if you'd like to view this program and other programs that we've done t the city connections deal you can go to slash city of highland and you'll and all the past programs that we have done with the city connection show and then in december for our december show we hope to talk to the city of holland public safety captain jack dykstra and he's going to give us some tips on how to think about the holidays from a safety perspective so i'm sure that that will be good information as well so we hope that we can see you again in december with that segment and we're so grateful for all that you do warm and running the whole art perspective around here not just visual arts of the music and dance and all that is creative in this area puzzle the way that you involve the corporate world and bringing in speakers and helping everyone at every level realize part is important in our culture here and brian thank you so much for your leadership in grand rapids and taking and this whole concept of our prize and in the media and making all help make that work and getting that whole perspective through this region we're so grateful to have you and city council in that perspective as well so thanks so much for being here and we hope to see you again thanks