first thing might as well get it done over the few folks are going to offer any comment this evening please stand any if you're going to open your mouth and talk to us please stand as well you swear that any testimony you present this evening will be truthful to the best of your abilities you first item next item on agendas public comments this is normally where we will entertain comments from the public on anything not on our agenda we also have a consent agenda item tonight which is a request to re approve a subdivision approval from twenty sixteen so within the public comment section will also take in entertain any public comments commissioner comments or questions on the consent agenda item hearing none i will move on to the next item which is the actual consent agenda item which is a final plain amendment lyndall eclair western reapproved october twenty seven twenty sixteen five watt subdivision approval this is in order to file a corrected mylar there was no comment so is anyone willing to able to offer a motion on that consent agenda and second move comments that he wanted to share i'd like to start i'd like the night to start high level and then if i the things that we want maybe want to drill into and maybe if we don't do drill tonight then we do follow up sessions on details or make sure we have a good idea just in you for maybe a global missing high level review to start with the other item was the schedule so maybe we should talk about the schedule just for time yeah because mention consultants and sign off and so so there's there's actually some some dollar targets and monetary investment that we're doing based on that bet and so this is the schedule that has been sort of hammered out as you can see there are all these recreation architectural form and character review uses and density is one the planning commission is going to be really gauged in this and we are proposing  or i don't know that's that's one weekend a month with the consultants for one week one week and yes we can be like yeah one weekend a month  for those nights and that's one one night a month one of our one meeting a month now can we you know we talked a little about this but can we also include a standing item on the other meeting absolutely for us to bring things up it can and when you when we meet with the consultants and there's overflow there will be a spot on it in the next agenda two weeks later we'll know a lot you'll always have a chance to i mean this is very continuous time so i think that's a key point for us that we will potentially have something in every meeting to touch on and it may be because i know we've had times before we want to talk about thing without the consultants being there to get a consolidated opinion or discussion without necessarily a directed discussion by them so we will have an opportunity at every meeting at every meeting which is to this pretty aggressive schedule  it's about as fast as it can get and i think i will get the schedule i can't believe it's as fast as it can get we've been dealing with this for a year and a half already and i can't believe the number one of the consultants are going to assign someone to work on this project completely and i don't know what what we're paying them for day in day out for the next year plus it just seems like there's got to be some way to compress it are you going to have e t c fatigue by the time we ever get around to seeing this happen it's just way too long you know you know i think we've already lost because of the gaps between when they've made presentations and where we're finally are tonight we've lost a whole lot of the momentum on this you know sorry if i'm impatient put just the way i am and then but but i think we've got it i  think this has got to be faster i think we need to and if it means means we need for all weekend we need for a week and while that's not going to happen ok i'm guaranteeing you that i would like to say i mean i think i  respect the effort that dan has done dana and team have done to put this in play and we're bringing in schedules that aren't just ours i mean i don't believe the consultants are exclusively working on this that i wouldn't see them doing that so we're  around multiple schedules i'd like to see you know where we can go with this and if if we feel when we're doing this and we're on section a and we feel that we need another full meeting on this will schedule another full meeting maybe not with the consultants i think it's always been within our purview to schedule a work session and if it's a work session it doesn't require the same level of  announcement and so forth we can do those on a more rapid turnaround so john i just want to what is your primary concern with the with the length of time in one of the things we have to be sure of getting employed participation not just from  but i think that one of things you be concerned about is if you have not participated not just from the planning commission and interacting with the consultants and staff but also we have enough time to warn people in the town that they want to get involved because this is going to impact personally i'm a little frustrated at the track so i thought i got it that's also one of the things i mean in my world you use you take a plan and it's a starting point and planes of evolve planes change and you adjust so there may be sections on here i mean we're starting on this nine one is nine one is the earliest date that i see on here in that in draft regulations already doing something within two weeks so i'm i'm i'm not saying that this is that this is slow i would like to think that we are approaching this with some flexibility contractually maybe we can't have that level flexibility with the consultants but we also can't nestle intice a pay we're going to need to push them or back off we may fly through some of them if we do that i'd like to excel in ok assuming we could accelerate the schedule a little bit if we're coasting through some of the section there's there's there's a little discussion of those little dispute or whatever we're in agreement then that we bump things up but we do have to have a starting point and there's no way that we can we can you know get anything done without having a plan to start with so i mean i'm a you're going to be driving a lot of this if you're not careful so i assume then that is say we have a meeting scheduled at nine twenty seven i assume that in due time before that meeting we'll have something from the consultant to look at so that we can discuss it or will that be the first time we see what their proposal is to discuss which means then we put it out we may be you know seeing it good first time i think i think that's you know so we don't come in cold and hear it for the first time but so that may be also be some of what we can do in that in the standing portion on the other meeting not just a follow up from the consultant discussion two weeks prior but also to to set the expectation for the consultants meeting two weeks following so i think that we can utilize that time period to maybe we don't see it maybe we don't have a lot of detail and at least we're expecting you know next we have an expectation of what's coming you do have take give the consultants i had this is this is something that i've been looking at i'm overly concerned about this i want to bring focus so we can also help steer some of their presentation in and and some of that discussion at the following meeting but that gives us some flexibility to help you know maybe accelerate this as we get into it because you may find that the rest of us are the rest of me gets a little thick on some of the stuff that you guys are probably not going to be but it may be that we need to slow down or we need to keep a slower pace to begin with until we get a feel for what's what we're looking at so i think if we my personal opinion is if we start with the structure we have to have some structure to be able to can contract with the consultants that's a given  meeting a month consultant time you know that's that's that's a lot i'm not sure how you do the contracting but it may be good to have a clause in there that if we you know we're going to push something off that we may have to adjust the schedule make sure that there's the ability to to make modifications this schedule going forward but we've got to start someplace and i have a feeling that once we get rolling in this some of this stuff is going to fly through  without having to do a hell heck of a lot of you know digging and if we do find that we're circling the drain in one night then we schedule another meeting to dig into it and maybe we build in dana maybe we build in the contract to extra floating that with them you know just something that old one floating night or whatever but the ability to to add something if we if we really feel we need to  does this plan in schedule assume resolving issues in question know how how do you march the e t c plan forward given some of the major cost and infrastructure hurdles and obstacles raised by public works i think you have to write it into the plan as a you know he's not the enemy he's going to work with us and so we want to meet with him and get him in front of you guys and he's going to tell us what the issues are and he's going to help us solve them things can be solved really quickly i mean like the you know the million down to fifteen in town taking over it becoming a class one that's already gone from the being brought up before if you brought up natter time but we want to make sure that we're not nestle planning to what's available you know the ability today but we're also planning for the future because the plan is going to drive changes  what what do we want out of this and i think maybe that's important to keep in front of everybody as we're going through the reviews what do we need at the what do we need to have at the end of the day you know i know we're talking e t c next inward work out of this but  t we get we get done what do we need to have and i don't need unless i need an answer right now i'm just saying and that might be something we need to keep in front of ourselves every time we meet we need to understand where we need to be because it may be that a lot of the ideas of the concerns that dennis raises or anybody raises don't need to be resolved yet they need to be identified but not resolved where this is this is a process where we're going to write zoning regulations so that's good to remember as we're going through this we're not nestl trying to do what the building layout or something thirty years from now but we're trying to stages so that wherever work whatever we do brings us for and i think some of that we are in the regulatory framework for the plan that's been developed so so this is the plan is the plan and we're we're actually trying to get to the point of actually what regulations can we do now to help  and this time next year hopefully through the select board and that will and be a big task done and we'll pick up other things in the plan that maybe because of all the s so maybe they just as we're going through this if we keep in mind what we're what we're trying to get out of this for this round we end up building a big planning not a parking lot for say i don't use term parking lot but but the following that the subset of the follow up initiatives you know we do this these are the next key points or the next things whatever it's whether it's whether it's enabling the type of architecture whether it's  couple things just to follow up a little bit first on the public works stuff and reading through all that stuff i get a little nervous because i'm not even sure that the infrastructure we have densities land use and everything else in a new center we need to know that people what we can be supported up there and i think we need that's an answer that we need public works pretty early and if it won't support it the second answer we need is well what does it cost to get it and how do we get it and what the crime frame is to get it and they've got to answer that stuff you know they to pay for it so if it's all developer funded it doesn't matter right we can allow it and the that they build it up they don't get this town funded then that's maybe a different story and those difference in areas you can how are they play out and zoning race can still be  rags and you can make it designed so that you know if it is one scenario or another you still get the how come they want depending on you know what plays out so we're working with the the consultants are helping us do what i just go with this big high level just again well it's the taking all the neighborhoods is sort of laid out in the subtasks here so we're going to go through all the neighborhoods look at all the districts what do you want what do you want to regulate what do you want to look like so the consultants this isn't just the next at the can the consultants are helping us with this the regulations we're doing we would be doing this even if we hadn't done the d t c next plan because in the town plan it has to it says that we need to update the design review regulations in the town center now at what i had been waiting for and that was regulations that have teeth because one of the reasons that people in the have been upset about a variety of different things  go on in the new town center quote unquote is because the regulations don't have teeth so it's very difficult for this commission to so that's my no that's where we are now we are here and i mean one of my concerns is that we really need to look at the different districts separately when and where does when where developing the regulations some things will be looked at there are certain categories like walkability and those kinds of things that we may want to everywhere but how we achieve those may be different in each area so and hands what what the regulations require or limit or whatever would be different for the historic district that readings i get from the hybrid approach to the zoning is they aren't really read regulations there are certain design standards but how which scares the hell out of me is that project reviews are conducted by a group of qualified reviewers typically an appointed border commission and i'll bet we go around this room you know we wouldn't agree what what the right design for something would be everybody would have something and how do we how do you get there on my quote my question is do the consulting how do we how do we get something that that you know down to developers is that you know none of these things happen today if you flip the switch so you have basically have to put the put the structure of the regulation and the and the plan into place and then the buildings and they're going to we're talking about a thirty year plan here we're not talking about trying to drive up to switch and get all this stuff happens not that's not what we're doing and then to answer your question about you know what these design standards or guidelines or whatever you want to call them you know how are we going to get to the point where they have teeth you know that's the whole purpose of for me is coding of you know hybrid or whatever we're doing is you're coming up with the current exactly what matter is in terms of design so you can say to a developer this is what we want to see this is what we care about do whatever you want you know within these parameters and that's going to get the outcomes of better design more satisfied community outcome hybrid which is you take some of the peer stuff and you completely customize it for your community and so that essentially they're all hybrids and and creating as dana said from sort of no i've been taken from elements of it not just just going to the regulations and not even talking about the back to the schedule because that's what the started this is just discussion that we are going to ask are you going to take this to contract you've got to do this relatively soon i'm assuming this is the schedule yeah i mean i know with that we might have the potential to accelerate but we also might have the need to slow it down so projects have to be adjustable in general the this this overall concept at this point does anybody   having standing component of every meeting to either vet some of the discussion topics from the previous one or to bring attention to things that are coming  that puts us on the track and we should never skip a meeting we should never not have a meaning because we don't have applications or we don't applications let's talk you know let's keep it new it's it's that's keep every even if it's not even if it's a half hour session let's not let's not waste an opportunity to have something to have some some work done but i mean it it in then as we're as we're having each meeting i think we we want to reiterate what our target is what our goal is because it's we're going through but just to keep focus on what i what our scope is for this i think will help us get through some of the questions are we talking about there start to now we're talking about towns that are you know we're not talking come back to next point because nice to have that in front of us ahead of time of these two we've got a time if we're going to go through like you know page five to ten regulations let's you know there might be some means where there's nothing it's just a fresh slate based on that topic well we still there needs to be some context like what you know even if there's nothing we could have to say well ok the regulations go from here to here and we have to fill in this blank here something like that or just some some kind of context and i know we've had some of that because some of the earlier presentations the consultant said you're going to need to look at this this and this so that should already exist but but stage it for each presentation that might be what we talk about you know the preceding the preceding meeting is this is what we're going to look at  won't we won't do a review that night i don't care how we do it and how we phrase it but we will not do stick a review on make sure you don't want to oh right i mean we shouldn't we should not do  even if it's just to prepare for the next consult in for what it's worth and i did go through for the housing part of it from the r p c from regina mahoney and made draft changes that were he to do based on what her recommendations are so we can bring those in as they seem appropriate but some of the bigger issues like density and parking are so into related with that p t c discussion that i just watched those for this project so we're not we're not you know we're not hurting for time at this point are there from what people seen so far are there really are there hot hot topic that we want to get in i mean i know dana you said a lot of the things that i brought up are going to be targeted i do think it would be the public works piece i do think you gauge it with public words is really important and not to say try to resolve their issues but to gauge of them as a collaborative entity y ou know sometimes it's hard to schedule than hours could you would folks be amenable to a day time meeting with public works if that's makes it easier to get there  could meet with them on a different timetable it might make it more accessible the time would make it way more exciting or more probable that what i just think that would be that we might not all be able to do it if we do something like that we obviously would have to warn it because it's a it's a it would be a work session not a full blown playing meeting but i mean we can work sessions i don't know the lead to twenty four hour if we pull it they have to be it and they day in which maybe is more than one of whatever but not everybody is going to be able to make day time some of us can on occasion some of us can't but you know we could potentially set up a couple sessions it's from my perspective it's it's there's no there's no one one time really is if we can set a time far enough in advance like a couple weeks out then then i can probably adjust my schedule to accommodate samia i just have to  faster but not just restrictions and not just what you can't do we want to figure out how to do something not know what you can't do and if the answers it's going to take you ten million dollars to do something with lassie answer me that's not that's not a robot that's just an answer  o what else can we do to sort of like me so i have a topic that i haven't seen covered in the materials and that's electric car charging requirements for parking level covered by i'm just wondering if that's like something that we're going to touch on within the town center you know and we can talk about it all over town but we're trying to just focus on the town center  elements of a new t v charging station and try to get that off the ground  my big concern is just making sure we come up with some details for those descriptions because right now there's a lot of reviews going on which to me implies reviewing something that's already done and maybe that's the case but i think we're also trying to come up with things that don't exist yet so that's not necessarily a review that's creating something new so those are high level descriptions of the subtask and in fact of tom's point i think it would be beneficial for everybody to try to hone in each one of those so that we're not just time boxing what that that subtask is which is what we've done by setting a date but we haven't said what we're really what defines done coming out of the readings so that's my biggest concern is getting sleep because right now is the start of this today honestly i really don't know what we'd be doing so and i think to that point that was one of the reason i want to reiterate each time we do this whether what's a goal so in these meetings i think what you just said ties it directly with that we need have a goal for each meeting not just what is our overall goal for the project but what are we trying to accomplish each night and we need to be able to measure that did we get there did we do what we needed to do tonight that'll again a fight whether or not we need follow up that all the benefit whether or not we  know additional meetings or whatever so i think that's an excellent point homework josh how are you feeling about this but i'm really honing in on what you said about collaborative with public works just because i mean specific details will cost ten million or cost the government or what have you but just sort of a philosophy of development and how transit ties in because we're looking at this over the course of if the last plan is any indication like three decades and so i really want to make sure that we're all on the same page should look like and how transit transportation and roads fit into that because i mean you know it's one of my things the town common area the reason we don't have a town come in now is because it put route fifteen right through and so when we think about development and think about sort of the philosophy of roads that's the kind of thing as i want to be on the same page with them like essex isn't just a place for people to drive i mean because the engineer is always going to approach it from aspects of capacity and moving traffic and that makes total sense and the logic in what dennis said was completely ironclad in that basis and i agree with that of course but that's not what we want we want to live here we want the buildings to work in such a way and and walkability and transit so i don't know what the specifics are that's the point of the process but i really want to be collaborative with them on that so we get something that thirty years from that we say yes this is exactly what we wanted we live here that sounds a lot like just i think that having the materials before we meet for the enough time to go through them is the only way we're going to be able to make progress at every one of these meetings  you know and i think that's good that's important so we have to do that and get consultants and our selves need to work with with public works to get something tell you know and be october september and i wouldn't even be giving dates that i thought in response to some of naz concerns that it would make it more real if i put dates here  the tools that might be nice to just keep in our back pocket work many years ago is you know if we get hung up on a specific topic that we can't seem to get a conclusion on you know using a subgroup two people two or three commissioners want to go away and draft something and come back here you know because we could easily spend a meeting going down a rabbit hole and not getting cocky work product but we might say all right ned and john you guys go off and bring us back a draft of that so we can shoe it over i mean that worked really well with their using and some of that other stuff and i'd be willing to participate you know something that was of interest like affordable housing or something and those are some of the examples that where we would potentially do something extra you know maybe weather whether it fits into our standing agenda item on the on the off planning meeting or the development review meeting or it's something we have to call out and say we need an hour to discuss this with the commission that the scheduled meetings no more of the planning meeting doesn't get bogged down or that development review meeting application review meeting doesn't get bogged down by this but we still comedy questions concerns and then staging for the next planning meeting in the planning meetings can get ching hai to john's point we should have a relatively clear set of you know gena items for each night to be able to check off and say yeah we got all this we're we're there the the other stuff or clearly state we're not going to get this this item done you know i'm a little that concerned because you're iest because i look at some of the descriptions of the how they're going to separate those out because there are some real overlaps that would seem in what they want to accomplish in those three categories i'm just that i think consultancy in this plane yet that it oh yeah ok so the pretty high densities for the different peter's area of the town center and but he has come in with a completely different idea and then i was wondering how you deal with that do you back off the densities do you put that in as something that might happen you know twenty five thirty years down the road or do you how do you deal with that we address that time and see where we go because we are doing the regulations that the g c next is a player and it's not a regulation so the regulations that we come up with here is going to be in really not match what exactly with the d c next to  minimum density or something similar thoughts for this evening dana did you have another anything else that you wanted to get through tonight do you want to have any substantive discussions or if you know we have some stuff under other business that's not it i'm i'm you know when i was looking at the stuff i like i really think and i think you know as john called out having clear targets each time is going to help us move faster because we're going to be able to measure did we get it did we not and without that it's going to be a little bit more of a ambl in agenda item on the other business or wherever we want to phrase it and on every meeting or the to the opposite meeting to potentially discuss items that need to be dug into or dealt with or followed up on so there may be more than just the second meeting of every month topics about this hopefully will go a little to keep something going through to pretty routinely in all those in favor of the minutes as written by both and it's a carry seven zero and that is a testament to a recording secretary other business where you commission project is to be aware of is that cellular tower on pine crest that we had talked about last meaning there was discussion in their public works wanted to talk with them about  joint milledge town and hanspeter g plan similar to the by penn plan that was done twenty four team the idea behind that is that since the village is doing their very comprehensive plan update next year they'll be able to incorporate this new energy plan by reference to in their document at some point next time we do our town plan amendment or read option will incorporate it by reference in ours and some point if there is ever a joint planning commission on the rise and so you understand what the process is what changes are being made what the requirements are and just make sure everybody is on the same page so that when you've got the final document it's ready to do the other half i mean be in this presentation or we'll do it on a village planning commission e mail or another meeting at some point about consolidation and all that for these meetings going forward on the segment do you want to include that i was actually going to something i was going to mention i would like to routinely include th in these and i want to sort of resurrect our idea of if not formally then at least informally resurrect idea of visiting d c members of the discussion pieces are just that discussion like we talked about  hashed out the before there's no voting opportunities for visiting b c members but these are going to be discussions so i think it's it would be worthwhile a good effort to bring it forth they ma number of accounts and so forth that are out there it's not necessarily easy for me personally to keep the web page bookmarked to many devices so just like when we send a note of tape stuff is posted just include the note to the you have reactions yeah but mike i guess my question is just like the next we're going through you know all the regs through the e t c tax lands are going to go through all the lower regs with the on the town center even if it's you know green density or not green intensity but talking about the housing let's even if it's there let's let's try to keep our focus on that parcel that those neighborhoods want to lose the thoughts that we have and we're doing this parcel how it might apply elsewhere as well and that's ok that's another question and so like there's e t c the town center has several different districts in it several different planes on that are also elsewhere in the town so if we propose changes to the route to the criteria for one district how are we to limit it just down the center one of the options for that is just to create entirely new districts for the town center area which was one of the ideas but it could also we could look at the same time and see if it makes sense to extend no good i mean there's no this is exactly what these discussions are going to are going to bring out you know can we keep it within scope or does it have to be in a bigger process so keep drilling like that thought's anything else