up on the budget office ok thank you ok members before i begin i would like to remind everyone who is going to testify and let's ask dr sharon is there anyone in the chambers that signed up to miscellaneous communication dated may twenty eighth two thousand and fifteen from the county clerk on the matter relating to molokai and i ask you to be diversified agricultural revolving loan program and also the correspondence d january twenty seventh two thousand and sixteen from myself transmitting a proposed resolution entitled urging the state legislature to support of bill to provide for cost reimbursement to molokai farmers and ranchers to comply with the food safety modernization act requirements the purpose of the proposed resolution is to urge the state legislature to pass legislation to provide cost reimbursement to farmers and ranchers on a for money spent to comply with the food and safety modern modernization act an example of this kind of legislation is the bill attached to the resolution introduced by military state representative linda coy as house bill two six five  seven i also proposed that the numbered bill should be substituted for the unfiled bill attached to the resolution the bill is currently before the house agricultural and finance committee so members without objections can we do so on the substitution ok ok thank you committee may consider whether to recommend adoption of the proposed resolution with or without revisions the community may also consider the filing and the miscellaneous communication of other related actions members a committee was tasked by the budget committee to evaluate the feasibility and benefits of implementing a molokai diversified agricultural loan program under act three eighty seven session laws of hawaii one nine hundred eighty eight we last met on this item on aug eighteenth two thousand and fifteen and at that meeting this committee learned that the program has been  existing for about fifteen years but was seldom used and is unlikely to be used in the future due to the unfavorable department of agricultural ag loan interest rates as well as the dissolution of the or the lack of a taskforce the budget director informed us that the fund had a balance of two hundred forty four thousand seven hundred forty seven dollars by letter dated december twenty third two thousand and fifteen the department of corporation counsel advised us that they county has no ability at this time to comply with the requirements set forth in act three eighty seven this committee began exploring ways to use the loan program or its funds by the residents of molokai along with the lines of the original purpose of the statute this is to encourage small businesses and had reached out to prepress and to court and they formulated ideas on how we could use these funds and in december we sent out a letter to representative corey requesting her to consider a proposed bill drafted by our staff to establish a three year pilot grants program to assist farmers and ranchers on molokai to comply with the new requirements of the f d a food safety modernization act of two thousand and ten a copy of the letters in your binder it is my understanding that the food safety modernization act of two thousand and ten imposes strict new requirements on farmers and ranchers which may be difficult or expensive for those residents and farmers to comply with and to affect proper aid for them on january twenty seventh two thousand and sixteen representative  revised revision of that bill adding a provision to the loan program to reimburse you ranchers and farmers for monies spent to comply with the act up to five thousand each so that this time i'd like to many challenges with the implementation of food safety and for farmers and and it's not only more cutting what's going to be mandated or decided to be mandated is quite costly for the farmers and if there is anyone that's familiar with that right now is representative through her own farming what they have to go through so instead called or even a grant but a cost reimbursement where it's it's like a grant but it's the matching funds from the farmer themselves so some of the produce to be sold i mean it gets as bad from what i'm hearing if you have a dog running around your garden that can knock off what's what's going to be fully mandated it has to do a lot with this safety and the cleaning of the produce freshwater verses and if you're yaar it's almost like a lab that  i have a family member who's also doing farming as a side and they've gone to the classes and the training that sweats expect it from from the food safety mandates that's coming down and it's quite intense and extensive and expensive it's like you need like institutions sort of you know you and i has to do it they came before us and the only way we could have that what we have today and we could utilize those funds was having state legislature do the amendment to the existing bill that we have or the policy that we have so representative dick white and i sat down more than once to try and come up with this and she worked with her staff people as well as your staff so i ask my colleagues to  probably can have oversight but that's not necessarily my call but hopefully we can work it out that we should there be an interest with the cost reimbursement process for this and i know it mention to to their interpretation was just sort of left there so that the it will add more confusion it's a complete dissection of whatever an a but we could emphasize the costs  if they have any comments and whether if you've reviewed the current act amendments to the current act and whether that this could be implemented in our system we have any comments from our economic development office my only comment is there was that confusion about blonds versus grants we currently in o e d do perfectly we only manage grants so are and it said that we have to develop this program in conjunction with the department of agriculture so my preference would be if there was loans that would still be managed by the department of agriculture potentially and i'm assuming they did manage it before although i'm not sure but we could certainly manage the grant program  d if for any reason they didn't want to manage the loan part of it then we would like to ask that there be some administration fees that came along with that to do that loan perfectly out county to manage the loan process and so that may have been too much for the money for the county to hand over there is different elements going on during that time period and so it was i think it was used maybe two or three times but then there are often was not used so you know fifteen years later we have two hundred and forty four thousand two hundred seventy seven dollars in that fund and so just like what mr council member carollo was saying is that we couldn't do anything with it unless or and tell the state changed their law and this was a way of doing so was this through legislation side maybe we can have any input from corporation council i know that she shepherd had also written in an opinion based off of our questions from our last meeting whether in  and ranchers will have to spend on regarding the act itself food safety act can you elaborate more on the general concept of the food and safety act and what type of expenses lot of fast food operations supermarket is the whole point of safety is to be able to track back to where you obtained your products and so  now they're coming down to the farms to see that you're processing food properly and if you wonder well what does it cost in the audit  currently most of the supermarkets will determine who they want to work with and it's generally a company from the u s so the cost of the not it involves bringing them over paying for their plane fare paying for their housing and rental car and that's what you have to provide so you can be several thousand dollars or one of our producers has involved with  schools to understand she comes under federal guidelines so not only does she have to do the regular inspection she has to do federal inspections so she has to do two inspections every year and the federal inspection costs quite a bit because it's more intense so these audi it can be triggered by a company and you sell to they me require even if you don't meet the criteria if they requested you have to do a food  you see you are under twenty five thousand which is the minimum income level that triggers an audit you would have to be audited even if you were under twenty five thousand dollars gross income be the rules say if they find of violation or something that they can trace back to you you will now be under the rules you will no longer be exempted so any farmer could fact and these are several thousand dollars the orders are not cheap and one of the provisions in there is that any inspector can only do fly inspections o so if you're doing this every year after a certain period of time you need another inspector and we don't have any current system now in the state which will be cheaper is in terms of costs but then again you run into this while you can only do five inspections and then you need a new inspector so it's very onerous farmers are going to feel it it's it can be thousand each for the reimbursement and i assume it's going to be yearly so if you use it that that year then you have an opportunity to be reimbursed for another inspection the corporation counsel mr couch thank you mr chair and this is a great idea i'm fully supportive of it i just want to make sure that it will work so i have a couple questions where you say the amount of cost reimbursement to any one applicant chunk out exceed five thousand dollars should we ask that they add per year in there  that's one question i had to have this and then the number three says the maximum term of the cost reimbursement shall not exceed three years does that mean they get five thousand a year for no more than three years or it's a little unclear to me worked when i was alone saying oh you know you have a loan for three years so does that mean that they get i'm just trying to get language in there to make it more clear concise but i'm not i don't want to slow it down in any way shape or form you just want to make sure that because we've had all our you know if we if we make a law that's a little unclear you we have some folks that decide that this is the way that they're going to do it and shut things up so those are my only two questions everything else is wonderful i think it's a great idea and i'm fine with even passing it as it is is just i want to make sure that those are that actually that's good questions because that section indicates that the i'm referring to the page two members and that is section that indicates to me that it's just a maximum of five thousand her farmer or per rancher and then it goes on to subsection three which is says the maximum term of the cost reimbursement shall not exceed three years so the five thousand per farmer and rancher but not to exceed three years so they can only use it for three years is that my understanding sta to they're going to have to come up with five thousand to qualify for the for the grab as far as the cost reimbursement so i think it's i think it's worth for us to try and  it so it's not all we need to carry out our responsibility for these monies that have been appropriated to the county since the eighty's you know it's so i think the  don't think it's here and very soon supportive of the idea here and i had the same questions as mr couched it and i still kind of it does seem like if we wanted it one applicant annually like just to pay off one inspector to come for one visit in that entire year when they'll probably need more than that i mean i know that's the dollar used to be fifteen thousand now it's down to five and then the years is that i mean for the rest of that person's life for i mean it's just kind of it is limiting to me for the applicant and i guess anywhere that that word loan is in the year i would think would be replaced with reimbursement because it still mentioning loans and if it's a revolving thing where does the money come to feed back into this is it just state general fund appropriated so anyways that's just my questions but support of it let's see there we support it or we don't support it at this stage i'm not sure on how much she can amend at this point maybe mr white has a better idea of the process legislature my feeling is and this is this is their bill and if you if we want to support it we should support it there will definitely be review at the state level and in the have the same questions that we have and to me it's not clear whether it means five thousand dollars a year for three years or whether that five thousand dollars is over a three year period because a five thousand dollars is referred to as the cost reimbursement and then the cost reimbursement shall not exceed three years so it's that it's unclear but the same questions will be asked by the legislators and i think we're  we should be comfortable that this is the bill that she's putting forward and we should be comfortable supporting it as as presented and if somebody wants to provide what we could do is we can draft out a letter to representative to cloy and just advise for what some of our concerns that we spoke about in our committee and if you guys feel if the committee members feel this is appropriate to pass out as is right now then we can we can do so and pass out to resume the resolution on the other on the other side along with that we c and maybe our my staff could send a very personal letter to mr quite just explaining some of the concerns that we may have on the language and if she has an opportunity to make those amendments in committee at the state which we can do so she can probably do so at that time yes mr couch thank you mr chairman and i'm not sure a letter is necessary but it's ok i just want to remind the members and certainly let the public know what they be resolved is which is that's the important key it says that it that here by support an amendment to add thirty three eighty seven to abide for cost reimbursement farmers and ranchers to comply with the food safety modernization act requirements so it doesn't say it just says we support some legislation further it her here by urges the twenty eighth legislature of the state of hawaii to pass legislation to provide for such cost reimbursement including the bill attached here too we could strike that in then just say we urge you to do this and then you know miss develop mr white any of us that go down there and can go in and discuss it in person with her and the committee when it's time to testify but also discuss it with her in advance so that maybe she can add some language so that it's a little bit more informal and more personal as you well kno it's much better to be in person with them and they can get to have their staff there and they'll be able to work on it so i'm fine with passing it out as it is ok maybe striking the language including the bill could attach here too don't know i would prefer that we still keep it very specific to the bill because this is the bill that as a council or at least as a committee we've been working with are presumed to quite on and so what have you is it's just utilizing what's existing and what has been existing for fifteen fifteen years and nobody uses it and it's there for us to help this like kennet mention it's it's a costly endeavor i mean molly farmers are going to start finding out what what it involves to live with this it's just that the farmers on military now are going through training and are we able to do that jenna that's something we it's not this bill that's going to tell us that but i would encourage us to at least support what our representative is trying to fund this was money that was appropriated by the state and i believe we had a few meetings back ago we had the history that was presented this was during the time that  encourage people who were out of out of the agricultural business to diversify into businesses relating to agriculture almost like a start up type businesses and to maybe start their own farms and it was a loan it wasn't a grab so it was best abolition about fifteen years ago or twenty years ago and out according to mr boss i believe the county only utilized it twice in the last fifteen to twenty years and one of the requirements was a communication or the approval by a molokai task force which law indicated it was part of the requirement we were basically stuck stuck in the mud basically couldn't utilize the fun and we discovered this i think last budget session our t budget sessions ago and budget committee were for this item to our committee and we had been working on it trying to figure out how we could utilize that on its own with all the different requirements to it and so the best route to take according to corporation council because the opinion came out that there was really nothing we could do on the county level it was then to pursue an amendment through what happened what's happening here happened on military who knows what this would lead to from the committee maybe there will be someone there all to see how can we it's put together because there's no longer and that was one of the things that the original bill for us to address because the more look i guess for us no longer exists so the bill was like proof you know is there any further discussion mr couch i'm just asking on the motion was there also to file or yes i believe to file a communication  the next item on the agenda is here are forty to be establishment of the chapter three point zero for a of the maori county code relating to parks and recreational facilities and the amended the amended section a six point zero four point zero nine zero of the maui county code relating to animal control officers committees in receipt of county communication fifteen dash two three seven in the budget director  the proposed bill and also the purpose of the proposed bill is to repeal chapter thirteen point zero four relating to the recreational area regulations and to establish a new chapter thirteen point zero for a of the now county code relating to parks and recreational facilities and to amend section six point zero four point zero nine zero of the maui county code this is our sixth meeting members on the department's proposed bill and i hopefully and i truly do hope that this can get passed out today after resolving a few remaining points at our last  meeting we completed a first review of the department of parks and recreation is proposed overall overhaul of the chapter three point zero four maui county code real art regarding the regulations and the revisions regarding the enforcement powers of the animal control office officers the staff has handed out a revised version of the bill and it's incorporating all of our prior suggestions showing the committee's decisions is there marked in changes as well as revisions from corporation council and from the office of office of council services of the areas that are highlighted in yellow are the ones that we held over for today's discussion to help in that process staff us prepared a summary sheet of the items for discussion which you should have before you or the first area we need to discuss is the definitions of the county county co sponsored and department co sponsored issues especially relating to rental of the department's equipment and after  last meeting i requested the department to provide some statistics regarding the equipment rentals and suggested system for reimbursement i believe that you may have that before us well department responded by letter dated february first two thousand and sixteen that letter is in your binder and mr abbott shown will give us a quick summary of the department's response so just in a  just to wrap up in summary members we've been working on the revision of the of the chapter for the last good three three and a half months and over the period of time vetted through most of our issues so what you have before you again members is almost as in his final version except for the items that we held over for today's discussion and that is like the feeding of one section is the feeding of the animals remember that we're maintaining for all feral animal colonies that that discussion and that provision of the code and also consuming intoxicating liquor within one thousand five hundred feet of schools that was the second one and the third one was the co sponsorship and the rental  one thank you chair good afternoon members so just going to do a brief overview of the letter you'll see in the back there's attachments that show the fee schedule for the last two fiscal years as it pertains specifically to equipment the table you'll find on page two contains for the most part the information on the cost for the equipment it is important to separate that it's the mobile stage the show will be on stage in the mobile bleachers so that's what these figures are pertaining to the other smaller pieces of equipment that can be run till they can be rented the smaller bleachers the stage platforms and picnic tables those those do not incurs significant cost to the department for those to be mobilized so it's primarily you'll see the breakdown of the different tasks ranging from the preparation to the transport set up at the event site in additional costs that's just pacifically for the s because it has sort of a shell format that has to actually be opened in closed directly before and after it's being used and then as well as again the demobilizing at the site transportation back to the war memorial complex  and then inspection and removal of the batteries at the end so you'll see the total total cost us for the mobile bleachers is five hundred sixty one dollars and seven cents in the twelve and a half hours of manpower for that transportation and then the show will be a stage at fourteen point five manpower hours which is equivalent to seven hundred fourteen dollars and twenty five cents you will notice that  right now we when we transport this equipment we do it during the weekdays so the only overtime that's incurred is when the show will be a stage has to be opened if it's for an event that occurs on a saturday or a sunday  the rest of this we schedule is sharing our normal monday through friday business hours there may be some additional costs for overtime if we were to need to move the equipment over the weekend  activities that were taking place off of county property and if for some reason it was you know being used or set up during the week for other types of events and it had to be set up specifically on the weekend but that's primarily the overview for the pay page five of the revised revised ordinance the bottom of page five there's a highlighted county co sponsored definition that was included so county co sponsored means all functions activities programs or event sponsored by the county or any county agency in conjunction with an individual or organization so there's that definition in conjunction with thirteen zero for a one three zero on page nineteen that's also highlighted and this would include language subs subject to the county co sponsorship or the issuance of a permit pursuant to article three the director may rent department equipment to the permit is subject to payment of custodial deposits and fees as set forth in the annual budget ordinance permitted use of department rental equipment also must satisfy the requirements of section thirteen zero four a one one zero priority of use for equipment shall be given to permits issued pursuant to article three then to county co sponsored events that are not on parks property any damage to rented equipment shall be paid for by the permit be in an amount equal to the replacement cost as determined by the director and permit he shall forfeit any deposit and the excess amount shall be recovered from the permit holder by any legal means necessary so adding in this definition of county co sponsorship in making these changes to the department equipment rental would allow for the equipment to be permitted out cleanly but you'll see in the section highlighted in green under special events there's a nonprofit political fundraiser and we added in county co sponsored into this section so this would be equivalent to the rental fees that currently type for which are the nonprofit organizations that would be equivalent to those rental fees that those activities are currently paying you cannot take a quick off of county property so what this does here this amendment allows a quid to be rented and taken off the county property so that's what average has proposed and she has indicated a sort of statistics and data on how much manpower and how much caught how much the task would budget committee for the year fees of such equipment so i open for discussion at this time in thank you for being here  department off often hears from from me because i hear constantly from the look i can joint's confusion of the application of all these policies most recently and it's a big shift on an island so i'm trying to understand in my mind with what's existing especially when it comes to type activity for is trying to process to move to rent or whatever whatever it takes to that they could rent the stages for an event that's not held at our park facilities and we have no option to go and rent elsewhere we have and there is a coming rodeos that have utilized and rented the bleachers in the past and is it's the same there their experience the same problems that we're experiencing and i've said it before one size does not fit all and holiday how do we i mean even i recently had where community members were trying to have community meetings in respond to our community planning for the sit ba and they have to be put to utilize community center and then we need to change is to a private center because in our i believe the whole objective is to and you know just to have a whole month of meetings to be part of a process that's part of the county as part of their plans for the next ten years and an aside from the community the planning department's efforts to have this through but this is a community of people and it and i'm sure it's not different from all of maui but you know in and have it shipped over to molokai for your event it just does not make sense so you're not asking for the freebies just saying how can we be part and or is part of it can be that you be responsible to transport it back or or or to your event i'm not sure i was going to just say for example us rural areas but you know that that kind of puts us in and not everybody's going to get caught by for a grant to be sponsored by the county and maybe that's an option but we have some immediate requests for i know what is currently in our own code you know rental i mean regarding equipment parks and recreation equipment and then go into a new propose the questions and points as i can in summary from a historical perspective it's something that it's it's changed a lot over the years in the department for a while no equipment was rented for many years off property and then it was allowed for a couple years and then it wasn't allowed again and then it was allowed and at this point the way that we interpret the way the code is that you have to have a type two three four or five permit issued in order to rent the equipment so that would mean that the fees in order to get a type three four five permit that means your utilizing parks property  and were issue new a permit for the use of that property which would then mean we can rent the equipment to you heart of i think the confusion with that over the years is why we're proposing clarification in what we've presented and what we're working through right now in trying to identify what is the will of this body when it comes to the policy for county equipment you know we we definitely understand that it's different in different areas and our number one priority is to provide services to the community in those areas and so you know we want make make sure that whatever it is again the will of this body that we have it documented in a way that we can easily move through that process and so based on what had been discussed in some of our i think it was the december fourth committee meeting there was the desire to allow for  the equipment to be utilized off property if it was for events that receive county co sponsorship and so that's what triggered then creating the definition of county co sponsorship  and adding in that language so that the equipment park's equipment could be utilized and rented to co sponsored events that are off of county property just as kind of a side note something that's not currently written in to the proposed that we have sitting in front of us that i think is what i'm i'm hearing  member is you know that there's specifically the picnic tables and the bleachers and the stages the smaller bleachers that are desired to be used because they're not available for the community to have access to in any other way those smaller pieces of equipment are normally not there not nearly as difficult for us to transport or to have transported and those are pieces of equipment that we can require that to permit them they pick them up from the location and they retrieve them at the end so i i don't see it as being something that would be restrictive for the department to be able to allow for those smaller pieces of equipment to be rented provided they're not being utilized on county property in conjunction with the permits that are taking place on property it's really those larger pieces of equipment the shell movil stage and the mobile bleach or the the larger bleachers those are the ones that are really more difficult for us to mobilize and move and take a significant  amount of time you know to move those so i think if i get a fit the will of this body is to have language that allows for those smaller pieces of equipment to be to be rented and that there's an appropriate rental fee established for that and the insurance requirements would be another thing we'd have to look at i don't see that as being something that would be too much of a burden for the department thank you chair i i would like for us to take that into consideration with your new policies how you can add that on and if i understand you right and this would long as the perhaps would provide the necessary insurance papers department nineteen to perhaps have two categories of department rental equipment one that would include you know the s and the mobile bleachers and then another maybe it's a large equipment and a small equipment creating two categories but the large equipment can be permitted for county co sponsored off property and the small equipment can be permanent and can be provided by anyone in the community for any location so how could it could it be  ok could it be kind of a in line wit type for type for activity and where you look at is like the nonprofit so we sort of have just not anyone but a strong  community efforts that that would be parted at and because when i look at type for it it sort of reads in in  sponsored something register political can it be political political organization a nonprofit entity which generates revenues by charging charges or donations so how i don't know how the department interprets that but could it be part of that type for sort of  but i wouldn't want to see just anyone can come in and out i would think as a nonprofit or however you want to word that or or are they just independent completely big the probably would qualify for sponsors sponsorship but they haven't never asked for that you know i think the rodeo does i'm not sure  but they look for sponsorship i think from the county and i don't know how the county so there's that immediate concerns right now because the activity is on february twentieth event and like i say practices in the past they were allowed to grant the status off and have it at the where the even allow private entities to rent and i know that we spoke about ok they had to be co sponsor so that was the first lie if they could jump over that hurdle and that entity or organization had co sponsorship with the county maybe depart that or economic development office and mare's office something connected with the county just a co sponsorship then they would be allowed are determining whether they're going to go ahead with that proposal which which me basically means they can read the equipment if they get this co sponsorship the equipment how would that work i know that you don't have your new rules put together but how do you envision that working thank you chair we would at this point look to implemented along those lines that there was confirmation from a county a department that verified that this event was indeed co sponsored by by their department and then that would just become a part of that that that permit so what i'm understanding what the department is saying is that your your nonprofit that wants to have an event if they contact you know economic development or under your division human human concerns and housing under the human concerns portions the elderly division they just write a letter i guess that division would write a letter to to the department and to verify co sponsorship and that would then allow them to read the equipment i think that's how they were implemented was that answer any questions you have mr couch tak trying to say and i agree with or maybe we can put a provision in here formally the yeah potentially on as well to allow maybe it doesn't have to be sponsored co sponsored by the county of maybe eight because there's no other avenue for them that we can act as a as an agency i wouldn't want to have that not so much because there's much over there for venting in on it because of the transportation is you know transport that stage or those bleachers is not really cost effective and safe so i'm willing to i mean if you're if you're up for this is to put in a carve out a little exception for those are rural areas especially when i'm  so that we're not trying to figure out how to make this fit for you know the urban areas of maui where we don't want to have this happen unless it was sponsored or co sponsored by the county versus out whatever that they may not like that group and say you know we're not going to co sponsor regardless sorry you're out of luck so i don't know it's something that i think we should consider and we've done it on other legislation so it's not unique so thank you any other comments or questions from the members mr white if you could  couch could explain whether he's his car about is to allow them to rent or allow them to use without charge mr kopp rent definitely read right now the way the language is you have to be c administration says no we don't like that or for the rodeo or whatever happens over there that they do almost annually and they allow they've been allowed to do it as ms savage says well some years it was this way some years it was that way there's nothing in writing and this puts it in writing that allows for that answer your question mr white mr yes thank you mr cochran do you have anything to add to the discussion one in those areas to just come in and read based on the priority that we've we've set you know based off of the reset i think we set a priority in thirteen i forg three yeah i mean last but not least is anybody else who has an issue and if if mr carville thinks it should be just only nonprofit that's fine too you you know an activity organize and sponsored by a registered political candidate political are going to organization or nonprofit entity which generates revenue by charges or donations i think that kind of encompasses a company you know it's not just anyone you know and i don't know if because it's already in the r rural landscape that we have so your proposal would be more like if it's a nonprofit or any any entity that is in category fo would automatically be able to read the equipment without co sponsorship ok yes department did you understand the proposal and did you have any comments on it  allowing a permit to manage these type of feral colonies so i believe the the department has put together some language and that is proposed is going to propose that language today could you reference that section the savage that we can follow here on in the ordinance or in the amended ordinance yes so starting on page twelve which is under article two prohibitions hardly and i'm sorry page eleven correct sorry page eleven is that is the first reference of the adjustments that the  department made to per the conversations would be to remove item number six which is feed any animal and his or stage any food or water for any animal or animals except as provided in subsection d so to remove it from section a which section a is these are prohibited period and move it into subsection b which is unless authorized by a permit license lease or contract it's unlawful for any individual to and flipping over on page twelve you'll see it added in on to number fourteen feet any animal or animals or stage any food or water for any animal or animals except as provided in subsection d you also see the inclusion after that of the number fifteen which is feral animal colonies shall only be maintained as authorized per this section so what this would allow for is that it's still on lawful for it to be done in parks facilities unless there's a licensed lease or permit provided for it so that would give the department the opportunity to continue to work with the humane society and department of housing and human concerns to look at if it's you know further management options or different ways to try to i guess deal with the concerns that there are around this issue  but still prevent you know the the random individuals from dumping a bag of dog food in you know the middle of the parking lot or you know those types of mass feedings that are being regulated and controlled and are causing some of the issues that we're having in the parks so we would still be able to in force that with this adjustment but would also far allow for us to continue to work with how do we maintain and shrink the size of the existing animal colonies that are currently in some of the park locations some member states to understand what the proposal is basically when we first were vetting this section out it was either one or the other there is prohibited or it's allowed either i mean sorry it's just outright prohibited to feed these animals what the department is proposing is  it's prohibited but then they put in another section that it would be allowed to feed or maintain these colonies upon authorization by the department a sort of a license or permit to manage these type of feral colonies so that the department could work with the humane society in controlling that so mr couch thank you mr chair and i think that's what i think this body has come down to but i'm just looking at the the language and it seems to be as we computer so that the authorization on fifteen where it says as authorized per this section would be referring back to the statement made at the beginning under b where it says except as otherwise as otherwise authorized by permit but you're kind of all right that might be  i see a little confusing but it will work is that long as we have that down as legislative intent right let me ask or counsel if that would be appropriate to just leave the language as is for the says unless authorized by permit license or at least it's unlawful for any individual to item fourteen feed the animals except provided in subsection d or it's an authorized to unlawful for any individual to fifteen doesn't quite fit with that feral animal connelly's there has to be on for before that so it would be maintained for maintain so i would insert maintain before that on fifteen so would be a good and authorized to maintain feral animal colonies period period and then you do have subsection d that does authorize feral animal colonies if they that on the right and i think that we'll have language that will be acceptable to the body so just just i wanted to get kind of it do we need to work on this some more in terms of the  we ok with it being allowed under a permit process and mr white i also have a challenge with the fact that it's not clear that we are allowing only currently established colonies to continue i'm much more comfortable saying what i feed in the any and if the humane society wants to go in and capture whatever animals are there and go  i'm fine with that so i i don't want her there in reading this it sounds like if if a couple animals arrive in their ferals that's that colony is already established whether it was there when we passed this or not i don't want i don't want to be establishing new colonies i would rather we just get rid of all of them agree and just lean on the young guy society good point get out there but if we're not going to at least for the two of us we're ok i don't know about the other members but ok very good ok so work on that type of language ok and then we have the last one  is the consuming intoxicating liquor within one thousand five hundred feet of schools youth centers i know mr hall common had an issue with this because the schools and the youth centers are very close  probably still needs to be worked on and that's any of you have any suggestions to remember that discussion and i'm again fine with carving out but that's an unusual situation they've got with with carving that out sort of because but eventually we're going to get like the r and t parks going to have a community like that we're all right so that might be might be ok to leave it in there now and then figure out at a future time how that works and if it looks like there's issues online i that we can address those at the time if there's issues when we start getting our other communities that are going to be a little more tight than that then maybe we can flesh that out that do you have any comments on that savage on the fifteen hundred feet thank you chair so one of the attachments that came out was a one shooter that list all of the county parks within fifteen hundred feet of the public private schools or youth centers and so it identifies in each of the district the lists of park locations that would fall into this the language would still with where this is located it does still allow for unless it's by permitted use so it's not it's not an across the line that there's you know it's not allowed again this falls into the category under be where it's except as authorized as other authorized by a permit license or lease so we do have situations with some of the park locations currently where when people want to use them we do issue permits that allow for alcohol consumption and that's it hasn't been a problem at those locations for us to issue that through the permitting process so i wouldn't see any i wouldn't see any concerns with us going through that same situation at any of the other locations here it's just that unless you have the permit you're not going to be allowed to do that to consume case come for through yes and is the now we're just saying if you are within this fifteen hundred feet then you are automatically bridgette it's already there but so the others were i guess not part of this  added we had to do it by council approval and there are signs that all of these areas seem so determined because i'm not sure if there is so there's kind of two i think two sections maybe for clarification there is the part in the code where it is the alcohol prohibition for certain parks and recreational facilities and those are on page thirteen of the proposed areas one through ten the locations that are currently existing yes would have the appropriate signage posted at those parks that alcohol is prohibited and it would reference the section of the code where this states the other piece of this that we're looking at specifically with these additional locations is back on the previous page page twelve and this is again the continuation of the section that unless it's authorized by a permanent it's unlawful to do these things at the locations in the previous i guess in our existing code finding the reference in the existing under the existing code it has that we cannot consume any intoxicating liquor well within the boundaries of any park or recreational facility if any boundary of that park or recreational facility is located within one thousand five hundred foot radius of any boundary of any public or private school preschool or youth center between the hours of six am and ten pm monday through fridays except state and county holidays so that's what's currently stated so this was one that as we were going through we were trying to revise for a little more consistency we had the conversation about holidays and  you know different even schools you know may take off different holidays or weekends or or summer breaks youth centers don't necessarily operate on the same comes from a state law outlining that allows for the prohibition of consuming intoxicating liquor around these types of public facilities for so this list of facilities that was provided was more for reference so that there's a better understanding of you know how many in which parks you know is this referencing so currently with the existing language these lists of park facilities are still impacted by the current language but it would just be removing again the kind of the holiday situation that's just to the the chapter to make one part prohibit liquor and so now they're just saying ok let's make this more general language and say any any park that is within the boundaries of the private or public pre schools kindergarten elementary schools a radius of one thousand five hundred feet you cannot drink alcohol  during the week days between the hours of six a m and ten p m except on weekends and on holidays right or with a permit so you can get is that you can you can allow allowed to drink your beer on the weekends or on the holidays but with a perm oh ok so this this list that they have that the department has handed out these are the parks that would be affected by that radius if this were to be included in as those those parks that we ok very good picture and i guess maybe this is off topic but because it does have to do with the parks mate would that also apply to see a bar establishment that wanted to open up within just always reasoning that issue was like ok because the the park is so near to be that that busy commercial area where there are ours and there are you know hotel hotels and things like that so that beverages to in a sense is ok yeah i know it's a whole dickered department thing but anyway it's just that so that once covered in the last one is section three affected so i believe the department is requesting a change this is on page twenty seven section a one three zero that's the department equipment rental and i believe that there are some changes in the language that we have printed them out make copies for you and it not sure if ever everyone has had an opportunity or three through that the given opportunity right now and for the record i'll just read on the record so thirteen point zero four eight point one three zero department equipment rental of the proposed language would be as follows a subject to issuance of a permit the director may rant number one large department equipment to the permit t or any county co sponsored entity subject to payment of custodial deposits and fees as set forth annual budget ordinance or number two small department equipment to any nonprofit organization which serves the community subject to payment of custodial deposits and fees and set forth in the annual budget ordinance be permitted use of the department rental equipment also must satisfy the requirements of section thirteen point zero four a point one one zero see the priority of the use of the equipment shall be given to permits issued pursuant to article three then to county co sponsored events that are not on parks property and then to nonprofit organizations events which serve the community that are not on parks property d any damage to rented equipment shall be paid for by the permit t in the amount equal to replacement cost as determined by the director forfeit any deposit any excess amount shall be recovered by the permit holder by any legal means available and then on because of that we had to change on page eight because of this whole rental permits we had to include that in the definition of permit on page eight which would then read as follows a permit means of written authorization by the director for an authorized representative to serve reserve a specific park or recreational facility or portion thereof or reserve department equipment and then we also mr yes can we discuss this one first and then you go to the next one yes ok got it all right why don't we do that miss savaged you want to present any other further positions from the department chair the one thing i would add in you know we didn't designate necessary is solely the geographical location differences the reason for that being is we talk about the priority of use and that relates to the availability as well of the equipment the equipment is available for use in those areas one a line will occur which would allow for us to permit them to those non profit entities  far as the other areas on the island of maui go those pieces of equipment are indications when those facilities are in use so they're not going to be available for or again you know just for people to come and rent to use and take them off property so we wouldn't see that as being i guess an issue that we would need to spell out specifically that it can be used for some areas and not for others and then we would also have to make sure that obviously in the budget ordinance there would have to be the appropriate fees and the separation between the large department equipment and small department equipment using these walls to allow that if there's additional piece of equipment such as  restroom trailers that we first see those in the near future being added to the large department equipment list so that those could be rented for different facilities at different locations so it would allow for i guess the growth of pieces of equipment and that for those to just be adjusted annually in the budget ordinance verses spelling out exactly which pieces of equipment here in the code that would need to be changed if the pieces of equipment changed mr white followed by mr koch what is your where do you draw the line between small and large department thank you chair and at this point the portable bleachers the picnic tables and the stage platforms those would be the three pieces of equipment that are currently in the rates in fee schedule that would be considered small equipment the large equipment would be the mobile bleachers and the shell mobile stage so currently there's only those five pieces of the different tasks for the different equipment like the show more bills stage four hours of work there so i would assume that's large equipment and then on the second to the last page on the for where it was thirty third to the last page of that document you have to propose rate fees and it looks as though the show more people stage it would cost five hundred dollars for a rental of that and then more bill more will bleachers is that would that be considered a department a large item large equipment item for i think that says the stage is fifteen the bleachers thirty five in the picnic tables fifteen for rental and that type of four but these are just proposed fees that could double check on that for instance the staging equipment say a nonprofit just used one since they've asked before a kid for friday says they would like to use the stage the little you know for bait stage sections at night my only concern chairman is if the private sector is providing such a service is any quid meant i hope we don't get into a complete competition with the private sector for what i would consider  of the for the department to transport and move that equipment and so i think that's where i guess you would have that i don't want to say deterrent that's not the right word but you know it's not inexpensive for us to to move those pieces of equipment in so as long as those fees and deposits are equivalent to that so that the department's not losing losing revenue or just i guess losing the manpower hours that we would be doing other types of work  in the department i think would be important that there's that equivalency in the fee that's a stablished for that large department equipment to be used by county co sponsored events off of parks property so that is are the deposits the range depending on what you actually request from the c the equipment deposits i'm not sure how many years ago those were established and they haven't been adjusted in my recollection at least i don't think it's it's probably been eight to ten years since there was the last adjustment so we would look at specifically for the equipment if these changes were to go into effect july first then we would look at just updating the rates and fees in our fiscal year seventeen rates and fees and make appropriate equipment adjustments for the deposit and rental based on the cost of transporting those items because group comes or commanded to you to property yes and that the reference and i don't be the references section thirteen are for a one one zero that's actually the liability of permit the section so it references it actually twice in th yes we have a definition in my county co sponsored means all functions activities programs are event sponsored by the county or any county agency in conjunction with an individual or organization so they can be everything under the sun basically as long as it's verified by the by the department as a piece co sponsor i guess you guys are the gatekeepers of whether it's am just curious and i pretty much everything qualifies for sponsorship right we dicking around with other categories since everything is going to be in just one category think the discussion was is that if you wanted it to be co sponsored you needed a letter from the that department that's co sponsoring it or that subdivision of the department to co sponsor it and then send it a cash sponsorship to the organization if they write a letter saying we'd like to co sponsor this should the department requesting the co sponsorship put up to the cost of moving the show or the mobile bleachers that's a good point i don't know why though otherwise if i got a friend in the right department i can call them and say hey can you co sponsor this for us and parks takes  sponsored by the county then then non profit organization would pay the fee that's that's my understanding right but the but the fee is also a reduced fee know this is a redo right now the if you have a number for permit the new get you rent the mobile bleachers for two fifty an five hundred sixty so we're losing for the parks department as far as taking care of covering three ten with the show will be oh it's about two hundred fifteen dollars i think the parks department is is footing the bill for so i'm just saying if if you're going to get a department to write you a note then that department should be really well is step up to the difference between what the nonprofit pays and what the and what their cost is department i think we would make adjustments to what we're showing right now is what would be the proposed as listing this co sponsored in the same category as the nonprofit and political fundraiser events that take place on our property i think what we would look at doing is bring moving it from that same field category and not doing a reduced rate for the county co sponsored large piece of equipment and make those rental kwok costs equivalent to the numbers that were showing in that table so that if it's county property that's being used for a county co sponsored event that the department is transporting off of county property that there is no cost to the department for that that it would be the cost would be equivalent to the expense of the departments putting out that would where it is available in other urban areas of maui so therefore that's the only reason i thought of carving it out but if that's the committee and the department is fine with leaving that in there just make sure that you don't  compete with yes we have an unlimited amount i mean a limited amount of stuff so it's not going to be a big competition but we don't want to compete with the private in  but as i said earlier and according to mr carroll also honna and market we have no option we we we don't maybe someday we will but we don't have that option i'm not familiar with that night if there is a private sector or a vendor that gives that option or or does the put on my company provide that  we don't have that and the other consideration where we're talking about co sponsor pick up the charges and i would think at a point we would be able to recognize but i don't know how it is here but i can honestly feel that you know i believe this is just why we're here to developing create have healthy communities  healthier communities all of the events to me is in collaboration with parks with the different hopes that we have and if it means we need to increase to fees to to have that then that's what we have to do or if county will be part of the core sponsoring at times some of the events is an inoculation up some economic  development even if it's a one shot deal or you know the designer gets to express their their craps at this particular time and before you know it they're selling it off of violin because they've been able to display it or try and sell their products so they're there you know unless you are totally involved in trying to have the company sponsorships a whole sponsorships to help us to make sure we have a continuance of trying to establish a develop healthy communities so that's department we would feel comfortable with the proposed department equipment rental knowing that the rates in fees would be clarified in established between the small and large pieces of equipment and you're put forth  proposal in the two thousand and seventeen budget that's coming out correct any anything further from the members miss cochran or vice chair can moving on to that consensus so moving on to the next item is the the feral animal colony it's and we have under section thirteen point zero four zero seven zero that's on page eleven of the proposed ordinance of the general prohibitions applicable to all parks and recreation facilities we have included as number six the establish feral animal colonies so that's prohibited to establish feral animal colonies and then the remembering that section and then in conjunction with that we turn to the next page and that would be on  number fourteen highlighted so we have included feed so this is what would be permitted feed any animals or animals or stage any food or water for animals any allow the humane society to come in and not apply for a permit and take care of those animals under some some kind of program to reduce the colony and number fifteen would be adding the word me tain animal colonies does everybody understand that and sense ok are we ok with is that the proper language mr a colony colony appears several cats appear in them they start multiplying and friends join them and said you've got a colony so as long as the department understands that they're not to allow new establish the establishment of any new feral animal cloning with a language says for any individual to its unlawful for within the limit of any park or within a recreational facility is unlawful for any individual so lets you put individual cat  sorry that was a good one colonies at all parks and just make it easier from that approach or to miss a few missed you know humane society can do their thing or not but you know for me if i had to pick out pick  that's would be my position chairman thank you thank you struck on that mr couch thank you mr chairman i'm fine with leading number fifteen as well and with the discussion you know we always have the minutes the legislative intent is pretty clear we don't want feral colonies in parks you don't want to start any ones any existing ones we've got to get out of get you know slowly get them out or however quickly get them out if you can  i'm getting an understanding that by consensus do you want to delete fifteen with no objections which are before you can do that on the next page you also have  mentioning that she understand we all understand me attend that we don't want these happening at all but i mean there is exists and we need to figure out how to manage currently what is there alongside humane society and if they're not really kept in a managed to maintain colony per se like they are they're going to venture out the going to try and feed themselves somehow so whether they're going to go into neighborhoods now they're going to go to restaurants or you know i don't know but i think which she was mentioning if i recall correctly it's kind of a we do keep them contained and managed but again we always want to phase it out but currently it's existing and into i guess just make the best of it in a sense to somehow you know like i say phases so i think that's in the way of maintaining in a sense you know i understand so it's what however this body wants to go with that but i kind of remembered her side of what that maintaining me meant currently and eventually the intent is yes let's freeze out not have prohibit all types of feeding for these colonies and then we said ok why don't we make an exception so that the humane society can comment and control it or feed them  in the matter in which the they do and i allow it to be permitted only so who would issue permits to whomever would want to take over this  changed and stead of what's presented have it say that if you read the press festing or the prefacing comment that's unlawful without a permit for any individual to manage feral animal colonies period colony management must be designed to reduce and eliminate the colony if we put that in there it's consistent with not shutting out starving animals to go into the neighborhood it's consistent in driving down the colon in a reasonable and managed fashion which is authorized by the parks department and then if you go to the next page every first you back to that same section so the goal then is captured if i hear the body right that's what i would recommend  you ok moving on to the next and final i know this is the consumption of any intoxicating liquor this is number sixteen and this is the issue here was number c was letter c within one thousand five hundred feet radius of the foundry of any public or private preschool kindergarten elementary intermediate middle secondary or high school or youth center between the hours of six am and ten pm except on weekends state and county holidays get richer i think we agreed to that before the recess ok but now we have mr comm old code or the current code we had two items that were perhaps prohibitions without unless you have a permit one of those was to consume any intoxicating liquor at any time in a public restroom which you just can't do or consume a toxic liquor and we had at the all time between eleven p m and six a m in any park or recreation facility except civic and community centers provided the prohibition shall not apply to molokai we changed that under sixteen because we thought it's silly to have two separate consume alcohol restrictions so we put them into one so consuming any alcohol or any intoxicating liquor and we made between the hours of ten p m and six a m because that's when parks are closed so instead of eleven p m and six m we said ten to six and at any time in any public restroom that just captures what was in the previous code then additional restriction simply says on weekends state and county holidays you don't have to have a permit but during the daytime if you're within one thousand five hundred foot radius of those school buildings are those youth centers you must have a permit so it doesn't restrict people on the weekends it doesn't restrict people on holidays during open park hours it does restrict them if they're within the boundaries of that without a permit during the work days during that basic park open hours when schools are in session then clarification mr culture so that means on our biggest can go to a legal establishment that has permits to serve alcohol drinks i have areas i know i can drink legally if i wish to buy food going to make a call on pop up at parks or county facilities concession in the future then let's make sure that this type of language also fits within where we want to go because i could be up front i want that concession revenue to me i see it as helping this department out providing the services and amenities world and i do so because i think he's right that by allowing it on weekends we are allowing it to converge with kids events whether it's soccer or d ball or or pony league or whatever and there's no reason for us to feel like we have to do that any more than we have to allow certain  you know certain ease of action for smokers so i'm i'm feeling similarly that we're still allowing it by permit and by doing it by permit it also allows us to do it and right and recoup some of the you know some revenue for the drinking as opposed to just simply outright allowing it so i think i'm i'm leaning in the direction of not allowing it except by permit so i think mr couch thank you and i do understand this and you know we've run we run across this argument every time we try to ban alcohol in certain parks my concern is of course in my district we have beach parks parks where people go and watch sit on next to the beach and watch the sunset because we're on that side of the aisle and they will always like to have a glass of wine or a can of beer or something like that and so there was a huge outcry when we tried to ban and and all the parks at one time and then individually each park as we go along there were concerned so while i would love to do that i think i don't know if it's practical at this point and i don't know that i could support that at this time only because we haven't really vetted that out i'm willing to bring it up to have a big community discussion about it but to throw that in here right now at this last minute kind of thing without a lot of discussion from the community might that might not apply and i'm willing to pass out as we have it now and then bring it up as a whole topic of discussion again and have all the different communities government discuss it but to kind of put it in here now i wouldn't be able to support that although i support the idea and anything  county but i can agree with the overall banning but i think we need to get more detailed in into that and give the parks department a corporation concert to see how we do that but and but i think at this time and as a nondrinker and i don't care we ban the entire state for whatever you know i don't it doesn't affect me one bit but i i do understand the concerns of  mr couch as the sun does in the west westside here in the south but yes you can see this and so also i know and be so people every i understand there are people and there's responsible drinkers out there and they deserve that and but it's just not something for me so i'd like to revisit that portion if possible but i totally understand the whole and yes we are extremely strict on smoking which rightfully so too so this time you know whatever i'll go to your recommendation chair but i would recommend that be take baby steps on this when i know that you would rather do it all in one full swoop in and get it get it done but i think if we can establish this this portion of the ordinance and get people used to not drinking on a weekly basis and then at least allow them on the weekends it's a baby step and you know we tried prohibition nationally at one point in one thousand twenties and they're in people are going to be randomly doing it  but i think if we could just take baby steps and this is a good good good step in the right direction by saying ok if we have any elementary schools around within one thousand five hundred feet you can't or commercial vending for the county even that you know even during our hour of peace like that would this would this ordinance allow that to be done prohibitive because this is under section b which is except as otherwise authorized by permit license lease or contract issued so i think if we had a concessions it would ultimately be a contract or and shall be administered by the director of finance as follows certain criteria here a the director financial has in the buildings within the parks recreation facilities that are suitable for per minute refreshm concession facilities be permitted refreshment concession facilities shall be administered in accordance with chapter three point four zero code and temporary refreshment concessions may be authorized in accordance with the se chairman you know for you and other members of my obsession with revenues and how we're going to pay for these but there's opportunities for us what we want to take especially with this specific legislation to department laid like you know like other special fund programs and we allow them to have read revenue generation i think the department can then provide even greater service to more parts of the  if we would get some very good proposals to be the saw provider of specific products in our facilities and that's something that the department can use for specific parks recall projects and park  employee requirements so i am very supportive of this ability for the department to raise revenues here i would agree with you mr o'connor and i think the details need to be worked out but at least they have a shall vehicle to to enable them to do it i just wanna make sure that we don't need to create another any plea in legislation right right right now that this would take care of it for the department  ok without any ok i have one more last amendment and that's just it's very minor and it's and it's basically correcting some of the sections here i saw on page twenty seven which is the last page of the ordinance on section three i would like to propose some padding section adding and replacing section three moving everything down a section so section three would then  read the i guess my amendment would be section three point zero four point zero one zero of the maui county code is amended to replace the reference to section thirteen point zero four point one five zero with our changes that were that we had left over from the last year the chair will entertain a motion to recommend passage on the first reading of the proposed bill entitled the bill for ordinance for repealing chapter thirteen point zero four of the maui county code and establishing a new chapter thirteen point zero four area of the maui county code relating to parks and recreational facilities and amending section six point zero four point zero nine zero of the maui county could relating to animal control officers incorporating revisions of your committee stated today and any nonsense in a revision and filing of county communication fifteen dash two three seven eyes and one excuse and no nose motion carries it gives very much members i have one last item on today's agenda which is here are forty four and i would i'm going close that we file this because of the fact that let's see i brought this proposal forward as a housekeeping measure and apparently  already in our ordinance i would like to go ahead in record i entertain a motion to file county communication fifteen dash two eight five chair so moved by ms cochran