my pleasure to return for round two today mr lang was convicted of five counts of possession of a firearm by well he pled guilty to  and that contested conviction was for a crime called principal to an attempted manufacture of a controlled substance offense now i meant to so on the stand correctly  twenty five years ahead run into this quote crime end of quote in florida before but most states alabama as being one of them i thought florida was one said that anybody who is in a bit of crime  be punished and be punished as a principal to it there's not a separate crime called principal in the first degree well i'm with you because i practice criminal law for sixteen years in florida courts and i never saw it it's not required to charge someone as a principal you don't see in the information you know see in any charging document so i'm with you on that i've never seen it but what i gather from this record and i do think the court is hampered by the lack of evidence explaining what this charge is i mean there could have been helpful information such as that it's exceptionally broad and it includes the saying of some word which incites or encourage is another a person to commit a crime or attempted crime abetting or conspiracy or an attempt to commit a crime now i went back to review the trial judge's thinking on this and i think along with what you said judge carnes and what i'm defendants is somehow his conduct is less culpable like a getaway driver as opposed to the person who actually goes in iraq the bank but they get away driver is just as guilty as his accomplice under the principle ferry so i think the judge reasons that well you're a principal to an attempt which means you're just as guilty as someone who committed attempt and therefore the commentary list is an attempt offense so you're basically guilty of an attempt offense so your crime must fall within this commentary however i find that reasoning to be somewhat on satisfactory because when i looked at the principle instruction it is so broad i think it doesn't compass the solicitation type of offense in a solicitation type offense does not fall within that commentary which is in my view restricted to aiding and abetting or inspiring or attempting so and consistent with  buying attempts so when when you combine these two principles you have an offense which somehow bears less serious and was probably not therefore falling within within the intent of the commission when they are all gated this commentary to say arkan stroll substance offenses include aiding and abetting this aiding and abetting or attempting with actual is are tempted principle in the first degree and may be charged convicted and punished as much so it really doesn't say so listen then procurers an offense that is committed right that's i've noted that but that is very interesting because the florida supreme court has approved a jury instruction on principles which is much broader and of course we don't know what instruction was to prove on the part of the government that the offense that was actually committed falls within the guideline or aiding and abetting or an attempt fence  there was also i would also point out that the guideline definition of controlled substance offense is what i would regard as an of crimes in other words it says the following crimes qualify as controls of things that manufacture import export distribution dispensing or possessing with intent to manufacture etc then you have the m and then you have the application no and when it says includes offenses such as aiding and abetting what i think that does is adds or expands the list of a n well because what are you right because includes may sometimes be not exhaustive but in some context it is exhaustive and in this case it is because what the because what they can because what the condition exhausted when it says includes because in this context it says the the the commission added certain things to the list of control numerated list it's a larger fine it's still a finite list because you just made it larger in other words as i said as i said in our youth in my brief if you have a burglary statute that includes entering into a dwelling but then the legislature in the next includes entry into a structure ok it just became larger includes dwelling in structure but by including something it doesn't mean you add something other than a dwelling or instruction it's still  well well my point a bar burglary my point is that when you say a list includes something additional it doesn't invite adding other things to the list it just includes what was added it's still an enumerated list is just a larger than the new an a list so when this as aiding and abetting or attempting it doesn't intend to include other things such as principle to an attempt which is not a name it's not it's not meant to include solicitation which is a different type of crime and generally regarded as a lesser crime so when the commission added aiding and abetting inspiring attempting i don't think they meant to add an obscure offense which somehow was called so but principle common law use of the term principle and most codes use the term principle if one person commits one crime doesn't tell anybody else it about it doesn't involve anybody else he's the principal committing the crime if he gets someone to help him he's the principal if they're aiding him in a bed unit happening there writers in a betters but it is said in classic criminal law coverage in codes and in florida code inside i want is the punishment for principal in the first degree there is not it's the crime you're guilty as though you committed the crime i agree but when i read the p s r and i see the fence describe this principle to attempt i think it must mean something other than what you're describing chief judge carnes it must mean a different type of offense because  that and when i looked at the florida law i looked at the principle jury instruction and i think it's more expansive and i'll save the rest of my time thank you thank you  attempted manufacture a controlled substance but the information charges eight ninety three thirteen and then seven seven seven point zero one one which would be the same as in the federal code eighteen u s c and two would be principal or aider and abett liability is exactly the same the aider and abettor is as guilty as the principle and that's all this means it doesn't mean anything more than that and going to attend to attempted manufacture of a controlled substance under four b one point  point two is unambiguous and we look at the plain language of the definition to determine what the definition means common sense dictates what constitutes a controlled substance offense and in the commentary to for be one point one one point two it says thank you because i because i feel that the the offense is not an ordinary principle offense and something broader and that it was named as something broader and includes under the principle instruction in something in the nature of solicitation i would ask the court to find that the predicate offense does not come within the