prepared to argue point by point those things that the only thing i thought was new and ought to be discussed was that the government offered the court a subsequent critique case also concerning population control in china the adverse credibility finding was upheld in that case but for far different reasons and appear in this case in that case it also stated that when there is no substantial evidence and which to support a rejection of the petitioners documents they cannot be rejected they have to be accepted and lee submitted and in this case there was no objection by the government to the admission of the documents or their authenticity and the immigration judge based his rejection of the documents on a government report that was not admitted to the record something called  a country profile and it was not in the record my now reading a very transcript in fears to me that it was the intention of the immigration agents to admit that an attached sign there was no objection to the admission understanding and also my understanding it was never any mention at the time of the hearing concerning the country profile which is the document apparently contains some language concerning the prevalence of fraudulent documents being there and the evidence in this case there's nothing here to say that the petitioner's documents the documents submitted by the petitioner were in any way questionable n  personal opinions both concerning population control policies of china as well as a kind of a parallel subject of came up in a hearing concerning the petitioners pre launch petitioners husbands who on gong activities there was nothing in the nothing in the record to support the judge's conclusions either that the petitioner should have done things differently when she found out she was first pregnant with  first child differently than she did to them or that the petition should have had far more knowledge information and insight into her husband's for a long long activities both of  briefs that the judge used to make his findings including arguments about the first or to figure out for the first child arguments concerning the receipt for the fine that the family paid could you address that i it took the family that long to gather the money to pay the fine and the country reports specifically say this that and that many times these fines are are several multiples of the family's income and it can take several years including i think one example is ten to twelve years for applying to be finally paid now she testifies that she has persecution upon return because the population nineteen ninety one i think you have you stay current with the rules of the circuit the local rules no your honor i only looked at them again when i started preparing for this brief that she had a first baby in china and now fears returning because she is carrying a second or was carrying a second during that hearing so so critical to the claim is whether indeed there is a first child her testimony about that are inconsistent for example in china it is necessary to register a first pregnancy not having registered assuming all those things the spine was for the birth of the first child but not for the registration of the pregnant but you don't get fined for having a first child you did not get fined for having major problem in her evidence and that is her failure to produce the brother at the immigration judge hearing now mr tran had testified her that that when she became aware of her second pregnancy while she was still in china she found her husband who had already last for cat who was who was in canada had left for the u s but ended up in canada and said oh gee what do i do now and he said well don't come to canada because i want you to be close to family so i so please go to the u s and dad and the only relative that she had in the u s was her younger brother though she came to the so i can figure out the area code i can tell you where i have testimony from her where she says i came to for example i came to be with my brother because during the pregnancy yes he  what relatives she had that she says my younger brother yeah and then where is your younger brother and she answers she doesn't know now she says i only know he's quite far away from here whatever fear worksheet and she was asked if she could provide information on a relative or sponsor and she gave her brother's name and of course number having trouble reading with the handwriting here ok if yes provide information and a relative or sponsor name i guess that's the brother's name and then there's a brother younger brother younger relationship and then there's the phone number two to nine i don't know what to do and i mean i'm sorry your honor i could certainly supplement i i don't know where tonight is the kind of personally i think it i think it's certainly just just just far the lack of that in this case is a justifiable reason for the immigration judge to find that that chan was credible then of course we my kids live based on her statement she had a child and based on her statement that she had to pay a fine because she didn't register at the  judges conclusion not to put yourself in the position of the immigration charge well this brings me to the question i have but you're breaking it twenty two you say no conan versus trash craft you say city rather than in the countryside and so there is the question of whether street could escape harm altogether by moving within her country was another issue presented because even if he is right there are a lot of remaining questions what do we do once we have an adverse credibility finding reversed by and he what happened was that we were reversed the adverse credibility finding and discussion i believe it may be better characterized concerning the first child and what china's population control policies are concerning first children and married couples i think a country court is quite clear about this and and has quite a bit of information that's in the record and i would paraphrase it by saying that even first children have to the parents have to obtain a family planning certificate from the government the local government in order to have that first child in order to get pregnant you don't go after the pregnant because as a country of course state the adverse consequences of reporting unplanned is there to take care of her she is pregnant and i would argue that that a lot of that is probably because the pregnancy but it's also financial and economic i think that's fair to include that if we're going to include in the phrase take care of you we can include a pregnancy but we the case of ten versus ashcroft zero two seven three six seven three is now submitted for decision