but this now thirty seven so called this it's an actual public hearing which we're going to start with on my proposed amendments to land use and develop the regulations including the form based code character base february but because we work with our town lawyer to do some do a quick update for the commercial district and so that the planning commission has time to actually work on that aspect we did this update so that's why it was one for now so that's really the change between the last one and this one is the first c and we got a nice letter from levy saying that you've been there before and your willing to jump back in and they have a record and they recommended you the board have any questions  fairly similar their number of houses almost exactly one hundred different directly from the two thousand and ten census of the us government web site grant list state or was obtained from the state of vermont website and mileage and stuff was obtained from a o t maps that are available through the state and a number of houses on the census data the funds and highway budgets are often on the porch for both so some information about the fire department various questions along the way for example so there is a significant difference between the two fire departments when it comes to performance iceberg was rerated in two thousand and eleven we were done in two thousand and thirteen for that is with when you are within five miles of a fire fire station but outside of a thousand feet from a fire so those people that live down the end of the river road run strace road where there are no mightn't you're within yet one one being you're right on top of it and studies have been done for a number of years now that getting beyond a two to one incremental cost to get there vs what cities will save in that recently wrote to the church that's where the last i don't is in some areas park street river road by browns river on entry school those areas those are high green areas that's where we have a pressurized water system and that's where we have a  for the rest of our town outside of a thousand feet from the hydrant is twenty nine square miles i've heard it has six square miles so very similar numbers there are that goes prior prorated informed you know that is that is the full membership of the fire department right so you're covering not five thousand people in jericho but seventy five hundred people in a while it's more like a thousand underhill is paying forty percent of the bill you get the full thirty three firefighters if there is a fire in jericho that number of people is available to come fight that fire being forty percent funded by under it and also top of i'm not going to be soft on that no absolutely but off the top of my head thirty underhill has another twenty five hundred people and another fifty or sixty or seventy miles so you know thirty three people covering eight thousand people in them and something like close to one hundred twenty one hundred twenty miles and they have twenty six covering just off the top of your head there's on  face of it it looks like a vastly more efficient operation is there something that is the more you are a more efficient operation what am i not what am i not getting here if i could look so much more efficient it doesn't look this is something i'm not getting to know i why is that no i think that's that's the case it did once upon how were laid out and how we travel so  i have a little bit more i can explain it as we go through this if you understand why i find it almost so much more efficient i find it almost incredible i understand your point will there's more information coming in so fire stations  want to call the fire station they do keep a pickup truck in their squad vehicle that they use for d m s first response but it's not a fire station it doesn't have twelve foot doors on it it doesn't have you know sixty feet length to get a big truck in it it's an old garage that they used to put one apparatus in that's it so we don't count that that is not a comparison to the brown street station which can house at least two trucks if not three the brown street station is where it is that wasn't by accident that that's where the fire department wanted to build that station there was the land at the end of packard road that was available to us at the time that that was all being considered but if the station had been built there the far ends of jericho would not be within five miles of the station and those would be an iso class ten rating so that location fire department the fire station was  to ensure that all areas of your border we have five miles of the fires by the best performance rating lowest cost insurance for those people the other pieces significant when you start talking about  so ratings you think about what that does for your home now think about a commercial business or a school and the insurance on those there's a big difference when you start trying to ensure you know buildings that are multi million dollars worth of equipment in them or just the building itself not the difference in the p p c ratings that make a big difference in overall insurance cost limited apparatus we have three engines they have two and again this is our total apparatus this is a pro rated for just jericho because if there's a fire in jericho al engines are available to come we don't just say oh that's jericho we can only send to write all of that apparatus and the equipment is available for the town of jericho we have two tankers that is one of the big reasons why that number is where it is we bring water with back country rescues whatever that's got of all of our equipment on it that type of stuff just life and so yes jobs of life are on your heavy rescue different departments do it different ways we are actually looking at changing how we probably a week and a half away from signing a contract to purchase a new one hundred forty thousand dollar rescue pump or so they're going to be replacing and old engine and their heavy rescue tr with this rescue plan for their current heavy rescue truck which is a nine hundred ninety eight has holes rusted through the floor of the truck and holes rusted in the frame as a comparison one of our tankers primary duty truck responds the most fire calls is in one thousand nine hundred and that is scattered all around with us for another two three years we have a nine hundred ninety three engine that is scheduled to run  a lot more with us we have one engine and i have a rescue which are two thousand one only three years older than their nine hundred ninety eight heavy rescue and our plan is he goes for a much time somewhere in the ten year why why because they're in good shape there though why are they and what's the difference the care we take of them the maintenance we do don't we wash the trucks every time we come home especially in the winter you know we don't let program insult build up on them we take care of them stations you know we keep the basically fifty degrees so everything gets the melt off of them and doesn't stay there on the truck  again that's that's what we've got and that's that's a comparison we have some newer apparatus we have one engine which is a two thousand and seven or eight and our newest number tanker which was purchased two years ago so just some difference is there an apparatus we're keeping our around for a little while call bio so for fire calls and again we didn't separate this out this is all of underhill jericho calls it's not just jericho calls because that's what we respond to respond to all of those two hundred thirteen fire related call times byrd has one hundred seventy c m s calls hundred fifty for us and three get to the three hundred fourteen one hundred fifty eight for us are only calls that occurred during the day when our full time people are here eight to four because we don't respond to those at night we're not counting those as a call so we get a comparable so we really to compare the two fire departments strictly speaking we should add st george to ions were going to shoot and under oh please do you guys need to get a real picture of the iceberg is responsible for this is all coverage that your response well so high for st george doesn't have a i understand what you're saying the difficulty is is that saint george isn't underhill and was much more we understand and there's no fire that they're fully responsible ready for and you have a territory that you're fully responsible for and we compare the costs of coverage we we should be comparing it to the two covered so what would have to be added to this presentation is road miles houses square miles false alarm fire alarm so there's a lot more of it that there were sixteen that were you know we had no water on some actual fire you know the rest of them oh yeah it's fully involved everybody get out of bed and start coming in just if you don't do that legally they can't do that so many in the station it's not differentia change the batteries when you change the clocks leader a tremendous amount of fire education fire prevention education harvest market the more the grades we do all that stuff and we have a tremendous fire prevention education program we have two people that do that on a regular basis and every year we hit every school we have most of every day care worker hill school sacks in the school we go to these places and i think i firmly believe that that makes a difference in town because when employees that i work with at i b m see me and come up to me and say man what do you do to my kids because they came home and we had to test the smoke or they were going to let me in short out stuff happens and if you've never worked so you know there's there's a there's a january ten degree day manpower needed is the same because these tools are heavy the cars are hard it's not easy operation to perform you need manpower to do these things if i go to a car accident with entrapment and i only have five superscript numbers there we're going to get into those as we go in the next like we have a full time we have two full time positions heinsberg has none and remember heinberg is covering their day time  with their full time police force that's how they cover big time e m s firefighter safety equipment is turnout here gloves helmets nomex good boots those kinds of things communications these are our radios and dispatch cost we have it very well here in underhill jericho as compared to almost any other community but we are just bashed by wills and state police why is that so much less we because they like us know most and most other police that most other fire agencies tremendous cost to that we have for a long time been dispatched by wilson's the police we have a very good relationship with them and there's nothing to foresee a change in that i don't know what that piece at consolidation will do but we're not that many calls for them in a year as compared to their state police traffic and the other piece of it is that if there's a car accident out here if there's something out here we have a fire we don't call for p d for a fire to come do road closure or whatever those are things that we take care of ourselves we don't tie up their resources to do that if they if they like that if there's if there's a fire in essex and there's hoses in the road there's two essex police officers stand at either end of it the four hours some explanation as to why those numbers are significantly different insurance costs we are a little bit higher there are some explanations for that as well office expenses vehicle maintenance we have a bigger fleet but jericho's portion is just about the same as in the burbs and our trucks don't get to the point where they have holes rusted in them through the frame they're heavy rescue truck is in such a state there he said that any day in time that truck may not make a call because it is that the latitude those were his words to me there we go way we can have way from having a truck but the reason they're in that condition and have been station seen a look at your numbers for salaries and benefits and i'm comparing it to what you had in your teeth thousand fourteen fifteen project and i the numbers it would be a very and i know that inside of it so you're comparing that to the full miles per byte but that's also the similar number zero mile similar number of houses similar population similar dreamless similar town taxes those are all similarities if you believe cost this is telephone fuel for the stations heat telephone internet those kinds of things be able to open we've got more roads we drive further we've got more trucks g auditing and legal are all not in their budget it doesn't mean they don't have it it's just not shown in the fire department but so getting to sum total if you look at our total in the town report it's three hundred twenty four that we're asking for from the town in taxes because we have some other income this adds up to the three twenty seconds that's the difference that's the reason for the discrepancy so i am very fire fifty seven thousand dollars budget for payroll they started that last year that was their first year that they became a paid on call the partment like we are why did they become a paid on call the part they needed membership they didn't have enough people they couldn't attract and retain people so they have hoarding to their chief as of two weeks ago have expended their fifty seven thousand dollars in their budget and they still have the rest of the rest of the fiscal year to get through his yes based upon their call volume is that they will end the year somewhere around seventy three thousand dollars for their volunteer payroll so their cost even though it says fifty seven thousand is going to be dramatically different than that that's their budget not their cost correct that's their budget and again i expect our cost will be less than that at the end of the year tell me about this business one they have heinberg fire department has a person with medical gear that will go in their personal vehicle or the department squad vehicle to your house to  during the daytime heinsberg fire doesn't have people in town during the day they have actually missed three daytime calls for first response and they rely on their police force their full time police force to police force to be an e m t to be the minimum level first responder is twelve hours a year of continuous education which i don't know when their police force receives that you have to have  you have to have a minimum set of medical equipment and i don't know the cost of this so we don't do it i don't have any experience in it the better dash that too would be actually trashed as they could because they have jumpers out here they know what equipment they need they would be much better to give you a number for that and i try to give an exact i'm trying to get over is this a big number or a small island or i i don't even want to venture a guess because i'm not comfortable doing block heater that goes towards you like a conversation so those are all things that we feel is fair for them to write but that actually it's kind of a circular thing if they pay they budget and then we pay them out of our taxes and cost right that is not what we were questioning the town when we were in the terrible portion of our budget is three twenty four something so the town is actually paying thirty thirty three three hundred thirty thousand if we include we did with the volunteer pay so trained on real jericho does ninety nine point five percent of all of our train forsakes rating right one of the big deals with ice so in getting your rating is the training that you do and the quality of that training and the skills that are trained on we use our in house members to do that train  a significant amount of outside trainers to do train for them because they don't have members that are comfortable doing that and if it's outside people people come to their training if it's not outside people people why am i surprised that is so small because we don't hire a lot of outside training so you all do it yourself i said ok most most of that in most of that eighteen hundred is sending people outside for schools when they want to help you don't do much of that you know we actually do a fairly significant amount of that heinberg sends people out but they also brain state instructors into their station on their weekly nine to train and those state instructors i think we don't do that we do our so their number would be bigger if that number were in their budget probably a lot but i again i don't know what they're paying i says that the full number just jericho's sure this is jericho share what were his compass not right there so capital transfer that four hundred forty thousand dollar truck that they're mine is next year's budget when they put it in town report will be a ninety thousand dollars line  because they're good bond for it and that will be the sixty thousand no additional payment of about fifty four thousand dollars a year how many of the years that is to get the four hundred forty plus interest so portion of our capital plan eighty one thousand dollars fully funds us there is no budget whiplash or no bonds right there are no bonds just borrowing there's not bonds there's the borrowing they're just not bonds and you don't see our budget fluctuate right we know we're not paying cash for trucks we don't develop we have a schedule laid out and capital plane laid out it's a very similar  what the town of jericho is doing for all the all the reasons that the town doesn't exempt we're doing that as well as keep a flat tax base for the town and again they audit accounting and legal expenses are not in the h department budget but they are done by the town what those numbers are and i don't even know how you would get that breakout from from the town their accountant their lawyer and stuff lawyer might the other give you a breakdown but well that's that's an area we're  marginal cost their incremental cost of doing their fire department as part of their total city is less than ten thousand got there for you i'm guessing i 'm guessing with a fair degree of confidence yeah i don't know if you don't remember our legal budget line item for years three hundred dollars that's our total budget for legal costs so i'm not you know i understand what you're saying is an area where there might be some efficiencies of the game itself so if you want to get down to an apples to apples comparison and again i didn't change m numbers at all even though i know their payrolls going to be different i know that their capital transfer going forward is going to be different one of the things to mention is that the heinsberg police department has notified the town of heinsberg and the hind hurt fire department that they are no longer going to be doing a mass coverage for them they do not have the time they are too busy with police force activities to do e m s they have missed three calls in the last year for daytime  and again they've gone to the select board and they've done to the fire department and said starting the next fiscal year not this coming not fifteen sixteen but sixteen seventeen they are not going to do daytime the last response is the town of so if you just take out our full time person you reduce our insurance by the amount of work jericho's portion of our worker's comp and you take out the audit accounting illegal you got two hundred thirty four thousand dollars jericho's portion of our budget and two hundred thirty one thousand for i was very similar towns so motor population similar size similar grand lest similar tax base similar taxes raised by  towns and if you look at where hines where he's going nines were chief has told us he's using us as a model he thinks we're in the right place and he'd be glad to come talk to you about that  so it's the governor so this is we did this what we would like to be able to do is once you form your committee there's information behind this that we would love to sit down and present this to the comm and get them some of that information help them understand where this all came from give them a kick start that's that's the real reason that we did this and it's not for any other reason at all and when you get down to  it if you try to do the best you can for apples to apples and that's really hard to do because it's like comparing highway departments you're never going to find somebody with the exact same type of road you have with the exact same conditions that you have it's really hard to say we're really paying for is only two thirds of the number so we're we're paying for basically one one third of a full time employee there and of the thirty three we're probably only twenty two volunteers but that's not c and the total cup of coverage of mines which isn't just a little over a half that you are nowhere near double cost on any measure that i've seen your way less than double the cost and specially when i'm i'm surprised about that there might have been some you know i was expecting book but or worse was prepared for what the difference is so great  thousand dollars to form a joint fire district and start heading that direction for fire at least we have asked they are going to join forces and share off i mean this is what the you know regional plan talks what was asked for a town new ground in fact is that our next thing on the agenda is the follow up in town meeting vote for fire department committee and she sure is you know the question for you is really just when do you want to or you know in front porch form tomorrow and it was about three four weeks to have it will not be here on the april sixteenth different like to be part of choosing this committee so i would rather not have to stretch it to may yes november ish yeah i think we should go ahead and start the advertising in property farming on the town website as well but we do know that there are people who are expressed interest that will not be back until the end of march and ok but we we should move forward we don't  something back thank you very much yes you do have experience on one side of the of the extreme on the other and then you have a fight so it's better to have open minded between different towns and i think there are other towns that we could look out in that i think is one piece of it but i know one of the things that i'm interested in i think it's a question i pos talk about what you brought up and he said he would we haven't had a chance to do that yet so what i wanted to to mention to you folks was the idea you know sometimes you know town budget committees or capital budget  comment that we've felt in other areas that because we pay for these sorts of things with other people's money we don't we're not a position to exercise the kind of tight penny pinching that we do over our own money and he said well you know twenty thousand dollars of free money that we have to match with five thousand we  it's not impossible but it's not something that you just throw out you know randomly like that it's possible that we could that with with local folks with the right expertise that we could get we could get services cheaper than our match possible possible i  it has to be proven case by case but it's not impossible and we have come to that conclusion in some construction that was cheaper to do it ourselves with our own people the match for a federal grant yes we have come to that conclusion however these are mostly areas and also the capital budgeting as well these are areas that involve a considerable amount of expertise and just advertising added to the population for anybody who  really do committees committees are open to any you know literate body citizen and should be and should be but things like this are evolving expertise and i don't people who are you know real experts and yeah but it's also possible that there are or i should think i don't have the time or they don't have time but you know i mean it's certainly something to consider i his experience and see what level he would like to be involved because in the past we haven't had a really involved mike wasn't involved much because he didn't it wasn't that he wasn't into that but you know i think maybe they were ok a much bigger grant to actually design and construct it the first part of that process is to actually hire a design engineer we had three proposals it was they were first reviewed their qualifications and then room dickinson who happened to be the scoping consultant was raked hire some qualifications myself the town engineer and the the trans representative  d scoring in then and then we went looked at cost and they happened to be the lowest cost as well at twenty five thousand seven hundred thirty four dollars eleven life which requires a town share of two thousand five hundred seventy three dollars and that will come out of the overall grant of two hundred sixty thousand dollars which includes a ten percent match so  and then the construction estimate is one hundred sixty nine thousand so long story short it looks like our grant would be sufficient funds to cover the design and construction and construction inspection so it's recommended that the the mail is closed at that point so they could use that parking lot and that they should think we should recommend the creeps that burger people walk across that road it's very likely it could be a violation of their condition of approval sit that's right all right so we have the minutes yeah and other business and in other business since i was and then the line one sixty one we need to know we went into executive session we have to move up one line one seventy nine because you can't do any motions without coming out of the executive session if there's one thing it's not it's personal but there's need to be executive session we had one of our newer highway guys decide that he wanted to move on and do something else so he gave his notice will be done april ninth and i thought you know if your bikes i rode group good but why is it is the richmond isn't that much difference or was i just an accident i drive it every day it's just an accident and in fact many many times this winter i have been