the budget and finance committee will come back to order and members we have julian bryant from the my humane society here to answer any questions respond if you wouldn't mind coming down good morning hensel chair and committee members would you mind if i ask my finance director to come down with me so that we can be sure to let combined we should be able to answer at least the majority of the questions say something this before i do have copies of our detailed budget both for the sheltering portion and the enforcement portion which might help you see what are not really just a brief explanation i guess you can see the percentage of each line item allocated to the county and allocated to maui humane society funds were in most cases you'll see sixty eight percent county thirty two percent humane society and those are for for what we consider to be shared to costs a few differences the vet department spends more of their time on county services for the animals that arrive in the shelters so their percentage is seventy five percent and in dog food and supplies for dogs that's one hundred percent county per the ordinance that says that requires people with stray dogs or abused dogs or abandoned dogs bring them to the shelter ok and then i just wanted to clarify one one question that had come up yesterday about who is responsible to maintain the enforcement vehicles and the county maintains the enforcement vehicles because the county actually owns them we don't own them so  humane enforcement budget they were separated last year so that's why we present two separate budget ok and is there so i'm trying to factor in the cost because i guess obviously the cuts and the reaction is will we're we have a scope of services and this is the amount we need to provide those services and now that they're cut we're going to have problems trying to fulfill your scope of services so adequately provide the scope of services adequately and to the standards that they should be provided right and then there's  costs are almost everything that we do at the shelter which that's why the column that says percent county funds percent m h s funds for m h s we also have some earned income so we do charge some fees for services that are provided as well as donations and  fundraisers so if i may just to clarify because i i really do understand that if you don't live it every day like we do that it is very it can it's really challenging to understand but if you look at each department at the shelter each department  helps if you know provide services that are fall under the county and then services that do not and so we have to look at each department and determine what percentage of their time is spent on  mandated services and programs that that we're you know required to provide and how much of their time is spent on non county related items and for the majority of all of our departments and it is based on our animal intake and whether they're strays or you know basically the our animal intake the majority of our departments sit at about sixty eight percent except education falls under county at one hundred percent there's one person in that department and then that staff is a little higher for the reasons that doris just stated and enforcement so i guess the justification for and i hear your justification but i guess to really point it out in black and white years since we have all your financials where if that amount is cut then sir a line you know five ten zero six is going to suffer you know so i don't know that's why we're here to get the details from you folks to make sure that we understand why you need exact what has been taken out and  we can justify restored so in the past unfortunately over the years it has never been that simple we have never it's not like a menu at a restaurant where each line item has a certain cost  associated with it i mean departments do but it's not as it hasn't been as simple as being able to say ok if we're short one hundred thousand dollars what clearly can we cut that would equal that amount we've talked about putting that together in the past because i think it would be easy it would benefit you all the county and it would certainly benefit us at the shelter it wasn't set up like that in the past and again we're looking at doing that in the future  are so my knowledge says since we joined into a partnership with the county of maui we've never at least for the last few years i hate to use the word never have had the contract fully funded and it's difficult because we do there are certain there's a certain cost associated with the services that were mandated to provide i mean that part is pretty black and white and simple and we're very transparent in there is no waste at the shelter and you don't have to take my word for it i mean it is in our budget and so when there has been a shortage in the past we as the humane society for the animals truly have opted to subsidize the shortages in the contract you know the question came up yesterday about our fund raising efforts and how what percentage of our entire budget is the contract and what percentage is our donations and you know after i left here yesterday i was really having this conversation with myself and my question is i don't know if i'm not sure what the connection is there are or the correlation if we raised a billion dollars which we can't but if we raised a billion dollars or we raised zero what does that have to do with the cost associated with the contract for us the cost for us to provide the services we do fund raise because that is how we give back to the community through our other programs in our in richmond programs that are spanned neuter so that we can give back to the county i mean to the community and i mean that very respectfully i mean i i truly am wondering how our fundraising efforts overlap with the contract we have is that the lines are a bit blurry or in the sheltering and shelter inside and the other services they provide any other questions from other members you know and thank you and i appreciate more papers and you know it does help a little but you know to be honest like you say unless you live it work it he did smell it you don't understand it and i think this is one of the biggest problems we have is is we know you provide a service and you have one in force and we did that purposely to have sheltering enforcement separate joe and so i think that's something we we can grapple with you know we we see the difference and you do provide a tremendous service to this community with no questions and i got to be honest with your we're not the only county having this problem if you move watching the news can live on a little feral animals has just been enormous all throughout the state not only and maybe in because i don't think this is just localise my question to you is you seen what cheerful calm has come and i guess you know you can show me all of this and then we can make some sense of it and like a vast other departments my mind my statement is real simple what can you live with and what can you live without how much more do you really truly truly need to make what i call your service is our service is accommodating to the general public and i know it's never going to be perfect but we need to get to that point because you've seen these cuts what do we need to put back in and if you see all then fine we may have to work with all but realistically what do we need to put back that would give you what you have set up the right amount of services needed for this county i'm not sure i'll let your lean into the question finally but i just have a comment on it as i stated yesterday in my testimony i am primarily responsible for having created these budgets yes and if anything i try to err on the side of concert conservancy where i do not believe that i overstated expenses however this is done months in advance of when the expenses actually occur  i have to plan for a full staffing i have to plan for all staff wanting medical benefits through their employment i plan on the current unemployment rate i don't find out until january of any or actually not till march early april what that rate is actually going to be so there are several variables that can impact the budget in a somewhat substantial manner  that we can take out of here we need everything we need office supplies we need equipment we need animal food we're in a society that's dealing with advanced technology so our humane and foresman officers now have tablets we're trying to where instituting a new animal management system which is going to be cloud based which be perfectly honest i really don't understand all of that but technology requires that we have certain expenses to be able to operate these new systems so the budget it is a plan i i can tell you when we sat down and we spent many many many many hours going over this we had a sharp pencil on our i mean believe me in this budget it wasn't just pie in the sky it wasn't like in a perfect world let's just put these numbers down we we knew it was going to be a challenge the shelter it takes a lot to care for nine thousand animals believe me i i it it's even mind boggling for me and all of the expense associated with that so when you ask what can we live with well i suppose history says that we can live with less but that's not it's not fair to my staff it's not fair would be honest i feel like i am exploiting them much of the time because they're working for wages less than they could get other places and they're working for less because they really are they care and they're committed my staff deserve a cost of living increase they deserve to have that extra person in their department so that they are not so under pressure every day that they're going to crack that is that is the real situation at  the shelter so much of the increase that use that that we asked for was to not put multiple people additional people in a department it was one person in this department point eight in another department point two in another department i mean very conservative but that is what it is needed to to serve the community and do right by my staff and by the animals and by  i can work out for this the sheets you've given us and as well as what we have from expenditures and trying to get a kind of have a good idea of where we need to go with this well at least i know where i want to go with thank you john and thank you very much for being here and coming here  there are small three percent increases in this budget not for every staff member just for those who have not received one in recent years or needing to come up to and a national standard or or i'm sorry or well you know three percent increase if they haven't received one in previous years or if they are not being compensated at the national standard for their position in sheltering because we do we do have a guideline that helps us in its society of animal welfare administrators and it helps us check our own situation in fact council chair  white when i met with you at the beginning of this last summer you had asked for comparisons of other shelters to know how we were doing and how we stacked up against other humane societies or shelters in the country and that was such a fair thing to ask for and when i came in met with you i brought nineteen comparisons of other shelters that have county contract or government funding and have animal content control contracts and what you'll see in that is that we are not over budget we are not overspending in fact more often than not were slightly under and so  compared to what what we are meeting this year you said that you had it and provided for three percent increases in some cases and adjustments to national norms and others which i assume were higher than three percent but dollar amount of those increases so just for personnel i don't know if she brought that but there was also increase in it like i was saying yesterday animal food veterinary surgical expense  fun system maintenance i mean across the board we've experienced increases in our expense over the years but over the years we we have not received the  what we have not received the contracted amount from the county over the years so we have been absorbing all of those costs so it isn't just personnel it's it's little it's small adjustments across the board but again some additional personnel like one one more enforcement officer for our humane enforcement department ok so you don't have a number ok no not even here with their questions members and a proviso for seventy nine five six seven from the humane society yes because both of those agencies neither one of them can qualify for their own grant so we are happy to help by umbrella in their head toward their grant yes we want we want to help those other agencies in any way that we can ok excellent and do you know these figures work for them i am sure something is very nothing but you know i haven't heard otherwise ok and i'm sure that that is they have a different situation than we have and you know certainly challenges on both of those islands does not have a that you know they're humane society does not operate like ours there's no sheltering and they don't have animal control contract however have just recently about just over a month ago started transferring some of their dogs over to our shelter on the ferry to give them an opportunity to be adopted so we are trying to help in any way we can so very good thanks for that  the concern is what is in your contract i don't we don't have copies of the contract so what services are you contracted to do i know we know the law that's how we came up with the budget and doris is looking for it i can simply say that our scope of service you know if i read our scope of service out of our contract it says the grantee shall meet the basic responsibilities of the county and enforcement administration animal care euthanasia and disposal of animals in fulfilling such responsibilities the grantee shall provide adequate personnel facilities equipment supplies supervision and administrative support subject to the limitations contained in the annual budget ordinance and or applicable law in order to and then i mean operate maintain an animal shelter animal adoption center enforce the regulations specified in title six of the maui county coal code operator dispatch office i mean there's more here  to maintain the animal shelter holiday schedule consistent with the county of maui holiday schedule provide general community awareness information regarding animal related topics and care the the care and veterinary care of all animals that come through our door grant application but that that's kind of a generic one for everybody what my biggest question is you know you're supposed to take in strays that's part of the contract what about the owner surrendered is that in the contract anywhere yes that's part of the ordinance yes the origins that's part of the county ordinance yes that any owner who can no longer take care of their animal is to bring it to the maui humane society ok i hate to use that i mean it's the same morning that i'm sure you've heard so many times in the past but we operate an open admission shelter were mandated to open to operate an open admission shelter which means we cannot turn away an animal if an animal comes to us one way or the other even if we're full even if we cannot fit another animal in we are mandated to receive it every guard lists of health or injury you know so come in and take their pet and because that sick do you charge for that service yes we do that even on the mandated stuff so that if if it if it is an owner request euthanasia that does not that our staff time the drugs for that that does not is not the responsibility of the county that falls under the humane society and that is part of that thirty two percent so you're saying essentially thirty two percent of your cremations and youth and or euthanasia is owner as and the number we have based on statistics which we keep on every cremation is that the county shelter animals are about sixty percent public animals forty percent that permit we split fifty fifty think your we need whether we were doing it as ourselves or as part of the county we need the cremator permit euthenasia again and based on animal statistics sixty eight percent county thirty two percent now a humane society public animals requesting euthanasia cochran yeah i find your grant and in it for twenty sixteen you include eighty one thousand nine hundred fifty for military so i guess we dropped it a few bucks on you so what happened here seventy nine five six five is what's in this proposed budget all right i added three percent two because that seemed to be historically what happened however because it separated out by year they apparently are not requesting to use the money that was appropriated for them so at the time of the preparing the budget i did not think they would be requesting it for f y sixteen which apparently they have lark so far this year so fiscal fifteen the funding was there was was a lark received their funding they sent a letter to housing and human concerns that we received a copy of also saying that they were rejecting the money they didn't want it it didn't go to us it's just sitting somewhere so because they rejected or denied that money for this fiscal year when we were putting the budget together our assumption was they wouldn't want it for fiscal sixteen and that's why we didn't include it in fiscal sixteen's budget that we submitted originally ok interesting thank you for that just going through the grant proposal another thing that we would like just to remind you is that part of our enforcement budget did include twenty five thousand for the after hours emergency care of injured animals so that was in our proposal for enforcement so by keeping the funding level to last year that was not included amount was up to fifty grand twenty twenty five so twenty five would cover your after hour service is that we are saying that we are willing to accept twenty five thousand to provide that service  julian nor i have been at the shelter at a time when those services were provided so we really do not know the cost but we tried to project based on having an officer on call every night guessing how many calls a week so on tried to guess and actually my assessment was more than twenty five thousand but we felt that we would go with twenty five thousand as against whom to be acceptable historical amount and see what it actually ended up being where we're motivated to and no matter how we crunched the numbers we kept coming up with with a cost of more than twenty five thousand but we are motivated for there to be a plan for animals after hours for emergencies because frankly there's i don't know if you've ever been in a situation with a severely injured animal who people call the police department they can't help what does somebody do and we want to be able to provide that for the community and for the animals thank you this is harsh but it has been doing that currently valeo rescue has they  i think had applied the last couple years i don't know if they received their funding or not they didn't apply for it this year it's a little it's it's one of those gray areas because that they certainly have provided a service and that was very kind of them however it wasn't the full needs you know they they are not equipped to be able to to euthanize an animal on the side of the road that is screaming or suffering and they can't do that but our officers can and they don't have a veterinarian on call we have a i'm sorry was that graphic i'm sorry we have a veterinarian who if our officer has to rush an animal to the shelter our veterinarian will jump in her car no matter what time of night and meet him down there to help the animal so  that that is why we applied for the for the funding for the after hours emergency injured emergency fund did you ever get a figure of what they were proposing just to bounce off what valerie rescue i guess who provided this service partier that all anyone i forget to be to be clear rescue continues to provide that service at no charge we tried to provide them twenty five thousand dollars they never asked for it we put it in our budget because the humane society was unwilling to provide it and they were doing it and so we put it in the budget but unfortunately through the grants process they got put through the ringer so but they're still doing the service they're just not asking for a month and they never have ok so it is a different service that they provide and it's and it's wonderful and i agree with you but it is it is a little bit apples to oranges they can't provide the scope of service that  trained enforcement officers at our shelter can ok thank you and your feral animal program i think for fifty thousand is what you're interested in true chickens perhaps it goes to anything that falls under the heading of feral cats and cats cats and chickens and and dogs but primarily cats primarily cats and chickens we have the community has less to do with feral dogs and they they work directly with our humane enforcement department so when i came in i don't even remember what day it was that i first came in testified i had included that that was a conversation about i think mrs cochran council member cochran had asked about the feral animal program and what our plan was and so i had elaborated at that time that we are in the process of hiring a feral animal specialist to work directly with the community in any and all ways to help ease the frustration to counsel and guide them into trapping these animals bringing them to the shelter we no longer charge for traps we've we've actually been doing that without a particular person in that position but that has created again quite a burden on our staff and that's why we have finally come to the conclusion that we actually need to hire somebody specific because that is a number we generated that number by reading the ordinances to see what animals we are mandated to take in at the shelter which are all dogs cats seem to be a bit of a gray area the ordinance speaks often about animals which is defined as non human it does speak in some cases about dogs in particular and i don't believe that it mentions cats in particular so we looked at our intake of all animals and then separated by dogs cats other and the county's percentage represents dogs and half the cats so we are saying cats maybe are a grey area we're not sure what the intent of the ordinance was for cats for dogs it was quite clear you take in every dog  people bring dogs to us that's the direction of the ordinance so that is how that number came about using intake numbers so if the cats were eliminated from the calculation what would that drop the percentage to be i'm sorry i didn't hear the if if the cats if half the cats were dropped right because we were saying ok county we believe you would be willing to agree that half the cats would fall under your responsibility or the contract and if that if half the cats were dropped i think it would go down maybe to sixty percent again i don't have that number is calculat d and then the other question i had was the the revenues that we are the funding that we provide allows you to create and if we're getting charged with sixty eight percent of the costs  those costs are allowing you to generate your earned income how much of that earned income should be given should we be given credit for since we're providing the basis of what makes it all possible if we're prison for covering we're being asked to cover sixty eight percent of the cost should we not be given credit for at least sixty eight percent of the earned income i wouldn't say that i agree with that rationale we do all the licensing fees county pick up fees  county impound fees and fee for every dog that is adopted out does go we collected at the humane society and on a quarterly basis write a check to the county i just deposited one this morning for seventeen thousand dollars plus for the first quarter fiscal year two thousand and fifteen those funds go into the revolving fund for animal management which it is our understanding that that is true and so that is what we look at based on department the sixty eight and the thirty two if somebody comes in and requests their own animal be euthanized that does not fall under county that falls under the thirty two percent that arced of our staff time that is associated with shelter programs whether they be revenue generating programs or volunteer programs or things like that thirty two percent covers that area our fundraising development department that is one hundred percent humane society the county has no responsibility there of course but in other departments if we didn't have our own there are there are shelters who have who are at one hundred percent government run or county run they don't have their own revenue generating programs their one hundred percent the reason we aren't one hundred percent is because we do fundraise and do try to generate we do have programs that generate our own revenue and our staff time to operate those programs is is the thirty two yeah yeah i still feel that we should be getting getting some credit for the the revenue since we are the owners of the land where we provide sixty seven percent  of the outside income if you look at what you generate from the outside it's a combination of county funds and then your donations fund raising and so forth  and so we're already providing sixty seven percent of the new money the rest of your revenues are generated from you know your earned income and that is true and we take that income and we invest it right back into the agency and right back into the community through many programs that benefit the community and their animals so we are not taking that money and holding onto it we are putting it right back  into the community the sixty eight percent that is very simply the cost to provide the services that the county is mandating that we provide simply that's that's what it is right there and the thirty two percent the fact that we are looking for ways to generate more income is so that we can benefit the animals the shelter and the community the animal fund states the purpose of the animal management revolving fund shall be to provide funds for animal management in the county of maui so that it doesn't limit the use of the of the fund so members any other questions are not so much a question and i guess we need to explore that a lot more but i'd also like to get a copy of that letter that larc sent to human concerns you know that that kind of intrigued me did they didn't want the money last year and then they're asking this year i would like to know what their rationale was for not asking for it last year we did provide late last year and i remember that so i'd like to know why and then the other question i have  her for the humane society is really every year you have all these various fundraisers and all that which i noice is it's part of any organization you need to because you don't know what county will never provide you enough and no one entity will provide you if money in this bill gates changed you a billion dollars and then you got it running from that point and well will be right next to you but any oh what percentage of just the donation fund raising portion i'm not talking about euthanasia i'm not talking cremations i'm not talking about all the other programs what would be the percentage and i was trying to find it here but i just can't figure it out what percentage of your each year would you think you bring in as far as donations and as well as fund raisers and i know that will change from year to year i understand but what is an average can i hear from your piece thank you so i know you probably have a ton of paper to buy i happen to have it so it looks like donations four hundred forty seven thousand fundraisers four hundred seventy six thousand and thirteen dollars no i added a little section there so the fund raisers is up top oh sir ok got a fund raiser ninety three thousand one hundred and i got i just want to hear the numbers and i wanted the public to hear these numbers because we have them they don't see them they don't hear about it's roughly in the neighborhood of one point three zero from that county and six hundred something from from the well half that from the donations thank you that's what the people have been asking and so thank you for that clarification and i do have that communication here i did find it now sorry we got more people than we can c what it in i really believe that the public should understand the amount of money that the county which in every year for this program and as well as the donations that the public itself puts out there that want to help them do a good job thank you thank you for the questions we have you have a meeting at one we were going to break it eleven thirty ok just a real quick going around it's not going to ladies but for our budget team special it has been made very clear to us from our grants manager at housing and human concerns that that revolving fund was verbatim soley to be used for emergency or one time needs it was a rainy day fund for us we certainly if that wasn't the case we certainly could have used it to help offset the the shortages in previous years if we have a need to receive money from that fund it is an application process that takes quite a while that has to be approved by housing and human concerns they have they verify that it falls within the guidelines of emergency or one time use that's that's why i ran out of time yesterday but that's why i was so surprised to see that the revolving fund was going to be used to supplement the enforcement contract we've never never been able to access those funds in that way we're going to is part of every contract we have received it's in there ok yes thank you kate just close by pointing out that the total operating the percentage of the wind humane society and i believe they have been getting two point three million dollars a year and their total operating budget is seven point three so if those numbers are correct then they get about thirty one percent of their funding from the county so with that members i'm going to break for lunch and be back here for a committee of the whole meeting at one o'clock and we're going to recess this meeting into three three o'clock where in recess i mean in the budget and finance committee will come back to order members know that we've gone through assisting with getting answers from the department chairs intent is to make as quick and run through exhibit one as we can do since we any revisits we will come back to and you can explain the reason for your first column is the mayor's budget second column is the chairs revision the third column with no title is the chairs budget number for that area the fourth is the council adopted and amount for fiscal two thousand and fifteen and the eight column h is the difference between the fifteen and sixteen so that first number it's up to one hundred eighty thousand dollars for the office of the county clerk also if if you have you know it will go line by line actually this point might be well i think it's better if we go line by line but if you if you want to revisit everything in one section please let me know ahead of time so we don't go line by line line by line  are aware of house bill one thirty four which is the ged proposal it is morphed into different entities and what's on the table right now just so that the public you and everyone else in the room knows that the senate version produced by senate then the xara wants to give us plain five percent if we accept ged and we would have to then also accept the rules in limbo and if anybody knows what rules in limbo are these are rules that the state the county if nobody wants to claim they're there no specific ownership there you go nobody wants to clean them that's the way i like to look at me you know we have one hundred and ninety seven i don't know how many miles and mr good wasn't able to tell me that you know i did on your request asked which the good he did send me a response and he also gave a list of one hundred ninety seven roads in the book in this percent and mr bonds did me a favor and gave me some estimates and if i want to if i'm wrong as to bug you correct me but at twenty five percent we were looking at about twenty million a year somewhere around that twenty twenty one million presently at one point two five percent just do the math just cut in half we're looking about ten million so if we were to say yes to this the way it's being presented now not the way it was originally for transportation and we could use it for our mass transit and all that the money would get would be gone and make a second like that so i just wanted to be just so the public understands in the my colleagues on this only with rules in limbo we'd be spending some of r t d trying to take care of that particular problem so i plan to go down and i hope you guys hold enough i know you doing this from the beginning i said this was bad i have agreed with it and i think even moving in that direction now that we see what i call the true colors has been presenting to us so tomorrow i'm going to work very hard to make sure that this  comes to fruition because well and then we have a chance because we can say yes or no to it when i'm for it if we said no they missed this sauce ok that's your problem but used to have the rules and nimble and that's what i'm really afraid of what anybody else i've heard that the ma would consider it but it one percent although i don't know if i would even want to consider it to be perfectly honest because there's just so much to take on one hundred ninety seven world i don't know how many miles but much that year and this would be a lot to take on in this county so just to give you legislature last week that a number of the members on both sides had had inferred that oh yeah next year will take away the t h c which has always been my main reason for not supporting the g t because i felt it was just the first step to take away the t h c which is almost one hundred percent generated by by visitors and replace it with a s on all of our residents so to hear them actually admit to that is pretty stunning well down in the fact as you all read to their the day the house finance leader said that the half a percent is roughly twenty one million than a quarter percent is half of them yet mr chair the information from the state tax office district collections on what would be the four percent now totals about four point six billion dollars so a half a percent of that would be a little under twenty three million dollars then currently the state takes out a ten percent ministry to all county auditor consensus consensus but i thought i was office of county council we're revisiting all yeah we should all yeah well i said this is a separate and separate from our program ok are we going to then question are we going by the highlighted titles or are we going by programs going by program ok then revisit  revisit department a corporation council department of finance top of page ten reduce operations twenty seven thousand set a consensus consensus budget programme delete the move from the office of the mayor concern move back to the office of the mayor consensus thank you ok the whole program ok so you want to revisit all of the remaining down to the half way past the halfway mark of page eleven ok let's let's go each of those items reduce operations to revisit yes and i believe that reduction to affordable housing is due to the reduction in taxes so i don't know that when i know it's not i'm sorry this is not that it's not revenues revisit ok it mr yes mine three ninety three could that be revisit as well you know you only mentioned the reduction that's why i wanted to next down to the fifty five ninety and the one hundred thousand both revisit ok do we have consensus on grants to community partnership and it's no no change grants for early childhood revisit revisit oh yeah do we have any consensus on any one of these items ok you my family services division and i community health you visit cademy we visit my arts and culture church revisit so nation army revisit give it a college cooperate of education program b visit is it women helping women revisit and coalition for a drug free land i visit mo family support services that's that's on that's a move  boys and girls club we visit you success center consensus up to you is me mr chair yes i'm page twenty five ninety six ninety three and the county facility security you get consensus on that which one oh yeah thank you county facility security one hundred three consensus yes no change ok officer the mayor visit grants for agricultural promotion visit and stances business research library it's answer is he smelly cultural economic development and county theater community theater equipment even have consensus on restore an aquatic speech program that would if you don't the first this is the first line ok ok ok so we have a consensus there we have a revisit on the premium million dollars we have consensus on the restoration of aquatics we have a consensus on the restoration of the operations so to revisit on the two premium pay we didn't go through the fire department line by line but since we're providing consensus on these two items we're also providing consensus in the fire department in the same items ok right  revisiting again we're revisiting premium pay and we're also revisiting equipment so what we have consensus on in this department and in the fire department is the mister i just wanted to clarify because the fire department one includes two deletions of the equipment and the expansion requests that and that was what kerry ski should be in here somewhere salaries and wages so it's under premium pay so we can revisit revisiting that anyway so kind of back up here so in deciding on this right now we here in essence are seen no transfer correct so what's happening so i got issue with that not not necessarily mr chair not necessarily we're just want to discuss it and we have to revisit on both ends well no no no you're making consensus pay and reduce equipment visit see you don't need to you don't need consensus on that department of personnel services deletion of expansion position reduction of premium pay and reduce operations and he revisits there are do we have consensus is tied to the reduction operations ok cultural and resource a cultural resource management twenty five thousand no change consensus of police my recollection is was that the chief was agreeable to the changes as long as we gave him uniform and investigate if i remember revisit the whole thing the whole thing except you know what those of ok so we don't have consensus on the on a cut of ten thousand dollars out of five hundred seventy two thousand ok so revisit all the way down ok moving on to department of transportation reduced public transit program ten thousand dollars visit chair yes are you still i know you're it little bent out of shape on the can contribution the general fund for the stuff you know the overhead for water right do you want to revisit that or you just leave it well mean these are all up to up for grabs until we get close to the end because a lot of more and these are driven by the amount of salaries in the department understood by i know you you have some heartburn over like number that so revisit overhead charges ok water operations program inductions in premium pay operations and equipment we visit focused on spreading and spreading the money out over a little more time so each of those i believe is a twenty five percent reduction so how nic and i and each each district was reduced by the same percentage on a cannot can i park system consensus you ok this next one hundred fifty thousand i'm sorry i need to revisit the hog that fire station and i should have looked it i should have looked to you and i say i know ok the next one is just a move to the bikeway fund intens consensus on that one south my building maintenance repair bay share and consensus consensus so my park system revisit yeah just to be fair just to be fair park irrigation system concensus it is my understanding mr chair that there's another second other pot of money at least eight hundred thousand yeah ok wes my park system revisit revisit ye build an equipment barn in my own district last year so as you guys know i have a hard time protecting equipment with shelters that cost way more than the equipment gotcha  from you'll notice reductions correct in the totals  so we can if you want to look at the amount we can we can make all three of these a revisit out i'm just yeah this taking from one part of money to another i just don't want to offset public works you know items for taking out a bond in taking out a highway five that you know i mean i don't want to offset negatively to a public works some or other so to keep in mind somehow yes central signal up grains this is the one i believe mister good said that he could wait on for until next year and this will still give him some money to play with this year  i know these are smaller amounts but some of us at least one of us has a full philosophical difference with the chair not you the budget chair and borrowing versus cash in on long term use is something that's going to last ten twenty years depending on what the bond is it's and everybody gets to use it including new people coming in to the area it's my opinion that those people should share in that cost as opposed to you're getting into an explanation yeah if you'd like and are i'd be happy to put in our next at that as well i mean it's improvements three hundred seventy thousand no change consensus census county wide pavement preservation four hundred thousand no change consensus county wide road resurfaced scene and pavement preservation is an ad there of two hundred sixty eight thousand incidents this revisits only because it came from something that that got deleted i believe this is basically one of the places we put money if we have money extra so this can fund one hundred fifty thousand actually we agreed to this was savings from the contract that money would then be remain available to the highway fund versus transferring it to the bank we fund it stays in the likely fund until it gets spent i think a lot of us would like to have more funds in the bike chair it came from general fund not from well either either way but you know either way is his point is correct that was deletion i heard i heard one revisit so we'll revisit that yeah like yards consensus and fences consensus and he revisit no consensus parks and recreation that was a deletion per department request  keeley highway improvements reduction eight hundred thousand back to fifteen zero five and revisit that just to double make sure i don't want to and this is bond right money on the believe so yes it's part of the bond yes so i would be more a park irrigation system that's the one we cut out of the other side and what really would remain is eight hundred thousand since we cut the other one i'd like to revisit this just to see if we countywide drainage improvements if it isn't anyway building facility improvements you visit bus stops and shelters e that would you know if you guys at least stay at the same octave it would be much more pleasant up here ok countywide equipment recommendation by the census ration consensus consent oh no i guess county wide environmental protection consent decree five hundred thousand census and census another consent decree for two million and census and county wide soil i prefer treatment study consensus is intense this county wide waste water system modifications revisit oh sorry no i mean yes i knew what you meant of probably are one water distribution system expansion consensus consensus that consensus from oh no revisits ok consensus yeah why waste water treatment facility you visit revisit visit upgrades or replacement countywide and visit and a country fire protection you visit  central maui fire protection revisit leave it starts on page eighty ok so we go down to well we have the proviso on the animal management revolving fund one hundred fifty thousand that was going to be put towards the  that consensus or anybody want to revisit that we had it all the other animal management stuff revisit it so we might as well add that to open space we have the first is land acquisition murphy's beach on top of page eighty two the first numbers are just adjustments for the rates not a bead worked out later to find twenty three twenty land acquisition how many this is a remaining parcel that had some title problems consensus and fences consensus  and all but the twenty three twenty five and twenty three twenty six twenty three twenty so we have consensus on twenty three twenty five and twenty three twenty six the remainder three or twenty three forty three and these are the my recollection is these are the fees connected to the cooler malo property aren't they already i thought already there are those additions i know they're not i year the payments were for the cool the money they have paid for other advertising when they do bid or fees and different things like that as well thank you so consensus on leaving th funds been expended from this one million dollars so far yes there has been you know how much no mistah moto would know that she's the one handling this project but then again you have been working on the master plan for let's let's revisit that just so that we make sure that we're and there's no change in the cool of my loue kind of number is there no need for a change ok and the change consensus on the oh we have on the last page the the new capital prove it reserve fund for waste water reclamation mr prior to that can we do a revisit on twenty three fifty three please but page the last eighty for the last item new item and just want to be clear that the language you know as i don't want to restrict the monies out of the sewer fund you know if we could call  capital permit reserve fund for sewer fund or something like that i mean i work for the staff maybe and this is you know we're open to ensure the chair is open to making sure the language allows for some flexibility ok but our are intent was to read that fun and just ask that they come like with the affordable housing and other funds and they come back to calgary for approval of various projects right now i understand and i agree with the intent i just wanted to make sure revisit but basically it's a revenue that is coming in from this money timeshare venture similar to the public works one that the committee did recently just i just had a question of what parcel number five was to ok thank you i'm sure the department planning would love this opportunity to run the mckenna lifeguard's but we need to revisit that we might want to revisit seven apart not actually i think they would have loved that they could have taken one of the positions for their yeah yeah anything else members ok with that mr hall come as back and he will be ready to go at six o'clock so we'll take our dinner break you know i  will not be back because i've committed to be at the bench so i will be back at seven just to let you know fine thank you i think we're we're in recess until six o'clock that's that's fine we had to go in there everybody wants to go you know guys we got a lot of work in front of us  proposal regarding the fiscal year two thousand and sixteen budget before we start round two i know you folks went through the round of consensus  sixteen departments that could not be associated with a district were lumped together to develop a per resident cost third cost that could be associated with a district were allocated accordingly and revenues are from real property tax and basically the general the general fund so on the first district we we have it broken down into total benefits which is your column on the left and then texas generated which is the column on the right we have read broken down by cost per resident taxes generated per resident and what is the net per resident so if you take a look for the two thousand current year's budget the cost per resident under the general fund is about two thousand and eleven dollars taxes generated per resident is four hundred thirty three dollars so there is a subsidy of one thousand five hundred seventy eight dollars and that's the mythology  four hundred ninety seven generated by the resident an increase city to one thousand six hundred forty nine got a lawyer same thing cost per resident tax is generated per resident and the net per president so for colo it's two thousand and seventy one for the current media five twenty five generated subsidy of one thousand five hundred forty five next district west smile we prosperous event two thousand one hundred five taxes generated per resident three thousand four hundred twenty there is a net positive resident three thousand three hundred eighty six so the net to the fun is one thousand two hundred twenty six dollars for prosperous event one thousand nine hundred sixty three taxes generated four hundred seventy five subsidy of one thousand four hundred eighty nine m thousand six hundred ten taxes generated per resident one piles in three hundred and forty one and that subsidy one thousand two hundred sixty nine cost for resident two thousand eight hundred sixty five texas generated five hundred forty six net subsidy two thousand three hundred nineteen then we have it sixteen budget my last page members some of the conclusions is one as expected we generate more revenue than services they receive mainly due to the hotel resorts and payin i hope this will help you it would in weeks as we go to decisions i mean it will be hard and difficult but that is why you are in the seats to make those hard and difficult decisions before we start round two let me just offer some parameters if you did request to revisit if you can disrupt please share your issue or you substitution increased tax rates additional cuts i'm open to your suggestions or what how you would propose to deal with the issue you see in various programs services or projects one thing i just you know i wanted to keep in mind that some of the comments we got back in the surveys any testimony and i had thought about it but decided not to which is to set the revenues first this evening and then look at how much we have left or how much we need to cut to make it fit that but since so you really want to run one of the process i will continue to do it the way we've done it in the past and we cannot please everybody so peter four members into the office of the county clerk and there was a request to return on regarding expansion positions their daily work schedule and but all i can recognize is the election process will get to be more complicated with the  as well as supporting their their requests for operations and equipment hopefully the quitman is we're looking at trying to recall what the equipment w so the chair reduced a professional services for the imaging requests i think at this time it is more important for council to make a decision on records management for what would be as provide the archiving so i would think that the clerk would be in discussions when the council takes up the subject matter ok and i think you mean for the administration they'd be very interested on what the county policy will be on records management but for me it is a council of the policy decision he needs to be reviewed and updated and you know it would definitely be important since he's the keeper of the records by the charter so his input is critical i would agree with you mr velo i think we need to discuss how we're going to move this issue for so we can make the decisions we're not going to go round after round after round your right anyone else on the county clerk side mr couch thank you mr chair and i agree with  well you know i understand your concern about the scanning you know ninety nine percent or ninety percent of the there's a ninety percent chance that we're going to be scanning the stuff it's just how we store it so my thought is if we get it going earlier rather than later that's why i was saying to you know let's get this getting started but you know however the body wants to go and i'm fine i just think we should start the process you know as far as the law just excess to what the final format is once you get it in you can then move it around to you know i can tell you mr coach from our sister companies experiences let's say they go in we do the clerks they prefer to do it one time and not return right because it impacts operations as well as the need use a third party vendor billy o their employees to pass the security requirements to operate we confidential information right so it's going to cost a hell of a lot more than twenty five thousand dollars i can tell you that and then the monitor unless we move some of those that with the bad guys over here i think we save a lot more time and it's a lot better for  folks if they can see on both sides that's my i don't know that we have to spend twenty six hundred but i think that monitor is is needed over there and it's just the next step into getting that chambers  kind into the twenty first century so i would support the second monitor thank you for your thoughts on that i came i'm coming from a point members with the curren working on a piecemeal basis and see if there is something we should do in one good project to take into account all the things that members and staff as it brought up regarding lighting audio visual and you know i can tell you a few terms bass security was a big issue for the floor so  my point was to try to look at a more comprehensive approach than just one component but that's why i structured the proposal from the chair in that manner just and that seems well and good is  if we actually do it well that's my concern as you have the will but it would in the money we have that will put them i don't know but i mean if we actually sit down and have the discussion and i have the redesign and whatnot but that you know that's going to take a while and a lot of money where this saves having to bring that thing down all the time and it's not as i like that i know you like that but oh it was really really very difficult because we received a lot of information from the different departments cooks office and everybody else in the reasons why it should be re reconsidered but we really had nothing that we could say to them because we didn't have your decided look quite because we didn't put this together it's really difficult a lit the background because well you know if i didn't put this together you and again members that she has no problem you bring him back and he had them that the chair has proposed as any lumination reduction or a cut that's t apply to current operations it was simply focused on all the boxes that are in storage contracts and various other items and i would agree with you we need to we need to be sure what our policy is going to be because that's the kind of thing you don't want to do twice and you don't want to have somebody sit there and go through contract by contract and i believe we need to be in a position  to get rid of a lot of the stuff that's in storage because it's probably of no value to the county and as long as we have a digital copy of it or not i think that's important so i support that cut from now on and it will probably be coming back next year but in a format that's more consistent with the policy once we establish what that that change should be and i agree with  the reduction of the or the deletion of the expansion position because once again i i'm not in favor of adding employees unless we've exhausted every means of getting the work done and  point of discussion is already set up in standing committee members we just need mr victorien it to consider when he would like to consider a posting of that i don't see anything else in office of county clerk we'll take your comments as noted so is so regarding operations is there still a need to revisit  let's go to our own budget the county council there is a question or request to revisit the restoration of the three legislative attorneys what is the issue we should have a better description of what we want to do with two hundred thousand dollars before we put it back because it appears that our audit if vision is already very busy and i don't know if they can handle another audit i'd like to know more or less what we're thinking of auditing before we before we do it the the chairs well one i feel the council should always have money available should they choose to audit something that's part of our chart amend the other component is i feel that the audit and the m i l and the use of county facilities and our transportation program i don't want them and i want to make sure that whenever possible has certain programs hoopy a portion of such as medicaid which asportation needs and that's the vehicle and route the resident will use funding to help us pay for certain services right i'm trying to reduce the taxpayer subsidy from general fund as much as possible you know without it and it's not with leaving them no alternative there is we i know you want somebody who qualifies with medicaid to go on the bus just part of the reason why we have medicaid before of course but i don't know that we can prohibit them from coming going on the regular bus and that's i the rest of them agreed thank you thank you myspace thank you very much and i understand where you're coming from it's best that you know things are paid where they don't burden us but i do want to point out that you know our contractors i'm assuming no i cannot speak for robert because i don't know but the roberts contract but i do know a little bit about the emil contract i mean a contract requires by an independent party already so i don't know if that cannot satisfy what you need to know by putting it in the contract and making it a requirement to do so so we might not have to duplicate because you know it's a lot of stuff to go through tryin just setting aside funds so that if we we have an issue that we feel needs to be addressed that the county auditor is not addressing that we have the ability to fulfill our responsibilities thank you  you anyone else mr coach so you know i was willing to see if we could compromise two hundred thousand but it just struck me again is that if we needed more we can't get more unless we satisfied with the performance of certain individuals we can as a body vote correct to i so deleting salaries and wages is not you know that's not  the majority of your adjustments this is overall you know throughout the budget this is one area that i think we need to maintain the salaries  i appreciate your comment my space thank you very much my concern about this is that i agree with you that maybe in some case performance it's not up to the expectations of whoever has those issues but there also are others who excel definitely and i'm not happy with an across the board getting rid of a pot of money to take care of those people and that's my concern thank you i think it's helpful as a body if we can get a consensus that's the best way to move move things either forward or or out of the budget you know so regarding salary and w just you know my thing members and again you know i thought about hearing comments and you know some of the staff also should some comments so i would agree that we can make some adjustments in this area because i would like us to be an example or branch as best as possible but they can it's also the same fact that cutting too much is just as bad as being too fat with the money so i understand your comments members and i am open during the third round on  i do recognize you know the situation in the secretary division especially in hindsight for me looking at how support is set up i'm not that happy with the budget that she has other responsibilities that she is not paying for because she is immersed in budget for months with the analysts situation i think that's could also help regarding the assistance you know i would say i'm hoping to at least to part time as  division and to maybe a little bit lesser degree the secretarial area and i i feel that we should hold ourselves to the  same standard that we're asking of the other departments where we have we need to look at our structure and and see where adjustments can be made and and i'm not sure that these changes can be made to allow for us to afford some additional money for staff at least in the analyst position one of the things that i have and you know maybe mr couch an way in on this but you know i have at the hotel i've got lots of computers websites i've got all kinds of stuff and yet i have one person handling  all of my computer needs installations changeovers of you know upgrades to programs taking care of all of our credit card compliance issues that are absolutely incredibly hard to deal with and we have a contract with the one alou firm i don't believe exceeds much more than fifteen thousand dollars a year so that's an area where i think we we need to take a look at and i'm i'm happy to do that maybe with some assistance from mr couch  on whose side is just around to we are in the office of the council budget thank you my apologies for being me no no no no apologies necessary we all have responsibilities  to any do we have consensus on reduction of operations i don't have a problem with those either one of those forty eight sixty yes mr coach yeah i don't have a problem with that i just number one a one the salary just most was that lumped in with the rest of the salary in rages that needs to be balanced yet the only way we get are ticking up on positions is the legislative attorney you know i'm sorry the committee secretary and legislative and yet we're going to revisit ok thank you because a is more on the yeah the operations i mean fifteen thousand is is fine i actually put a little bit more in mine i think but especially if if we're doing audits ourselves but i don't you know fifteen thousand is fine my my concern is the no where than twenty thousand shall be for the cost of government commission what does that restrict for staffing and what or then to better manage their money better well i guess the staffing is usually done i don't know what normally in all the boards and commissions a staff member a secretary would from that department would go to and staff would go to the meetings and staff the meeting so you counting that i don't know if their secretaries staffing those meetings or not level for me that i'm willing to give them funding this year and for everything else members but you know i'm not saying because it doesn't make the issue it's it's that i'm looking at things in for certain things in a  to be brought back consideration or in next year's budget either but that's my thoughts on the environmental compliance position at this time i think we can wait a year until we get something more i had discussions with them and i'm looking to get a month we recycle program going in la until a permanent area can be figured out  but until then they said they're willing to provide the service once a month for fifteen thousand dollars at an annual cost so i'm looking to add fifteen thousand for this and my thoughts to you my advice to the committee this evening is i would ask you to consider as another way besides strangely to this round was to work hard on and then budgetary things after budget session but this is one thing i am willing to take up sooner than later regarding the rate study and then have the committee make its recommendations with you and recommending that we go we consensus for this this year on this this items so if you have questions or comments mr white no i appreciate your taking the time to review this but i know that you know there is a benefit to doing this high an overture overhead charge is that we transfer money into the general fund by doing so but at the same time we're transferring a significant amount of what we're placing possibly a more significant amount of the burden on the few people in the county that are looked up to the wastewater system and i'm just not sure that that's necessarily a fair way to go and i understand your comment and and very well i mean it's only got a little bit further we all know that we've got some significant cost items coming up in wastewater that are going to continue to increase fees so to further increase those fees by transferring money out of the department into the general fund i just don't think makes makes good sense because this is an annual it's going to be an annual charge three point seven million dollars probably covers some are in the neighborhood of thirty or forty million dollars and  and we all know we've got bills of that nature coming down the pike now you know and i hear you clearly and that was one of the basis of my budget proposal how to prepare can only be carry over savings take goes into the fund you want to place other types of resources into this type of area it would have to be a specific lane item project that's the big difference between the two types of we still approach this so my approach right now is to use the carry over to crew that the charter allows us to prepare for this wastewater replacement as they get my confidence in the fridge eighty percent is not there mr whyte thank you judge just to clarify i understood that the first time you explained it but i didn't understand it the second time census do have consensus on the emperor kept an improvement reserve fund consensus thank you let's go to a wastewater ups members as top priority was restoring the two positions that were cut followed by the reduction of premium in the four areas and then his third priority was the reduction in the electricity charge so the remainder of the items and wastewater program  e not as high a priority as those three that i just mentioned he said there would be one at one eighty one eighty one and when eighty four when charge before we or we restore that any other questions or issues regarding the one eighty one eighty one are you suggesting we put that back or revisit for later  i'll wait till the third round ok that we did reduce i did propose to reduce the mechanical electrical systems by thirty eight thousand for fifty which left him with two hundred thousand dollars are probably the most current numbers but i'll double check that they generally seem to go no they wouldn't  the have spent yeah the whole latest numbers the same as march thirty first of april build income in yet is what one million three hundred ninety eight thousand four hundred forty four dollars and that would be at the radically seventy five percent of the year gone by so you can see it calculating that lay my calculation is the annual spend on that would be with one million eight sixty four we can take a look at that again and you've left them with twenty one hundred two point public generated across them to something i think is more reasonable to seven thousand two hundred and i don't like that step brother mentality if i smile when he said they should ask us for what they need so this is this is what was provided earlier this is what we have provided her looking for something somebody else so i mean asking you to put it back so i can make sure that we get some good frontline equipment like everybody else keep any concerns regarding the civil engineer three members you mr chair yes sir i believe i know mr white has the list in his head and i can't find my list but their priority for believe they wanted that they needed that one of the higher priorities like can't maybe that might have been in this no i think i think they were saying that that was their their number one priority yeah so if we could revisit that mr chair  heartened by their response to our requests for information because they have come back basically changing changing the way they're moving forward going to have their contracts coincide with the fiscal year so that we're not dealing with cameron says throw off the budget so i don't know if staff has had enough time to get their arms around but we were given just last night i haven't had a chance to really get comfortable with the figures that challenge i think we face is that we need we need to remember that whatever we're proving in this year and mr baez may be able to help us department is so that they hadn't dissin cumbered a couple of their contracts  contracts in the eight or so contracts that we looked at are somewhere in the neighborhood of one point three million dollars that was placed out of reach of this year's budget in next year so my understanding and if i'm understanding it correctly if the contracts are dessen cumbered completely then it doesn't comers f y fifteen moneys and we would have to re budget them i don't know what they've wreak contracted so at this point we don't know how much of that one point three million dollars is actually going to be available to pay for those contracts next year so it's it's a bus and thank you so yeah i am unaware of which contracts the the dissin cumbered the availability of the funds depends on the year that the money was originally appropriated cumber now that were physically or fifteen money they only have until june thirtieth of two thousand and fifteen to spend it none of that would be available for expenditure in two thousand and sixteen because the money would lapse as of june thirtieth two thousand and fifteen and then typically that money that lapses as of june two thousand and fifteen we would realize that you know the kaffir gets completed in december we would realize that for carry over savings for our fiscal year two thousand and seventeen proposed budget ok so this may be a department that we have to revisit between passing the budget and first reading but hopefully we'll be able to get our arms around to between now and i guess tomorrow night i don't have a problem  staff and see any objection members i'm going to move the administrators of solid waste program issues off til tomorrow to the next round and it's actually not the administrative section as much as it is the ops the ops and the and to a lesser degree the environmental protection sustainability programs those are more but the month contracts are looking ok so i'm just i'm going to leave alone this deletion of expansion positions to landfill attendants construction equipment mechanic one construction equipment equipment mechanic to my proposal was doing they're spending less at this point on outside services for the mechanic services than it would be to hire those two or even move those two from public works so  i'm fine with leaving the positions and not transferring from public works as public work still needs those positions as well because they're still doing the refuse drags so we had a long discussion i remember   they basically gave us the amounts and it was like it's cheaper to do outside services than to with overhead and everything else for the two positions for now it was cheaper to do that so i'm fine with deleting the construction mechanics but i would like to keep the landfill attendance to twenty six to twenty seven you know to twenty five well yeah definitely to twenty six to seventy seven but that you delete to landfill it and it's into twenty four i would like to keep those in keep those positions in but i'm fine with deleting the two mechanic positions ok i would let the stick  yeah i'm guy was going to go back up to that after this one time i'm sorry go ahead so to twenty six to twenty seven members any issues it would do if consensus said it's ok to keep very good let us go back to tw my notes show that they need and there they requested one one the landfill attendance was their second priority the other landfill attend well there are seventy to pry right right right right so just you got your sheet out it seems to infer that if they get the engineering position that the the premium favor restoration drops to priority number sixteen we're given one so they're asking for just a smaller reduction just a buzz yeah they were mentioning that if if the tenants were approved they could reduce the central landfill premium pay but i think they would still like sixty five thousand eight hundred thirty five dollars restored is what i kind of recollect from these notes here but yes sincerely restoring one oh i think there i think they're asking for sixty five thousand dollars including the two positions but that may be incorrect but they don't can go there this is i would say most of the get it done or you don't dance i'm tired of that kind of language and then when we don't get the performance that well we just told you it's possible not good enough return to this so i don't know how much and how long before they get another because i was told by individuals that they're looking for another site up in the private sector  stopped in march and the current seen the landfill was given until march of twenty sixteen to get their act together or stop so the department had requested a restoration of four months worth of of c n d revenue and expenditures based on having to take it up again in march of two thousand and sixteen to last until june of tw sixteen and i think everything was cut out so that's why there were the disk a little concerned about that so with that knowledge and also we couldn't make the to add up to the six hundred one thousand dollars we can figure out where where that matters but that is not as important i guess with dunder standing that if you cut it all out now we may be coming back for a budget amendment that if and only if you're not able to continue operations after march sixteenth that we have to take over so i don't know the exact wording but you that's what i would i put a proviso so that it can't be you know like the expenses so my recommendation would be to sustain you know take out this money now and let him come back with a budget amendment because revenues are going to exceed the expenses anyway let's move on under e p and sustainability program i have just two small adjustments on one is in premium pay and one is in upper regions i'd like a definition of small mission check and and sure this is the operations number as one of the items i'd like to have a chance to take a closer look at five million dollars i've deleted their professional services requests of thirty freight those and i reduced the grand subsidy for eighty seven thousand we still isn't one hundred fifty thousand thank you i believe mr white wanted to revisit this one and i agree but are you when are you looking for places where we may want to insert stuff because this existing three can plan project and i believe that the dollar bill with sixty five thousand for the rest of the year for the next year is that twenty something dollar premonitory know we discussed that rate as well we discussed what we did with regular trash pick up and this and i'm guessing the rate would be somewhere around eighty eight dollars with the that included a subsidy the way they came up with the twenty two dollars they threw in some stuff that i think mr white and i looked at and thought it was just kind of like finding the numbers a little bit and so what number are you looking at increasing the rate there to adding eight dollars a month and that would cover the well that there is no line i'm just warning you  and that would cover the costs no it wouldn't cover the crowds would be subsidizing it according to them it wouldn't cover the cost this last time but the first time they said it would cover the cost so it was a bunch of accounting magic their first number came was about sixty five thousand a year that cost mr white thank you joe my recollection is that the as as mr couch said the first time it was presented that said it would be an additional five dollars i remember month and mr going to his explanation was that did not include the cost of the cans the cans of been bought and so going forward if we were to implement a program somewhere else it would require the right capitalization of the cans so that's how it got to twenty two dollars additional per month but even if it were that cost structure what we do for all of our residential pickup is we cover we asked the residents to pay roughly half of what it costs us to both pick it up and landfill it or or do whatever we're going to do with it with energya so the thought was if we're only charging over charging everybody else half the cost on what they do then going forward we may be able to just charge the people of the three can plan eleven bucks or so recapturing the same percentage on their three can plan so that was just what we're tossing around right and the other coffee out here is if an if and when energy comes on line that all goes away if and when energy doesn't happen then we have to discuss whether or not we want to do it i don't white but as long as the cans are out there and they're just sitting in people's yards let's use them and it's not that much of an extra cost just something for the for the  that because the can have already been paid for the subsidy going forward just for this group is not that high i think it is the sixty five thousand dollars or thereabouts my thing is what do we see  the same thing what you then that's when we have the discussion but if we have energy then this whole point is moot but if we don't then that's when the discussion comes up that's a question mark at this point in huge question i agree with you that is a huge question mark and mr chair just the fact that they're there they didn't come through here still is a is a big question mark too but you just you're it's about when you know it's like he kept bringing up ok and because i have done this many years at the fia the contain many in fact that many times can add a lot more cost in having just one again so this is one of the issues that has to be really dealt with you know if everybody dead and i'm all ok with this subsidies and i would also like to know the percentage of contamination because that's going to factor in the subsidy because well it's a good and it's no good it goes right into the dump like everything else so just one of those points i'd like to b doesn't get recycled it goes straight to the dump right so the cost is not really a factor what the factor is it's not getting recycled so that's the real issue is that in the end outcome of what they're trying to do isn't happening because of the so there's no added cost it's just somebody is missing out on the value whatever the recyclables might be i'm not sure there's no added cost to it i don't know if they take it to the  thank you chair and i recall the discussion about contamination and mr you know as a said it's a been lack of education and they admitted that and so they feel that this initial current versions of p focusing on recycling programs will help assist with that because they just need a more outreach more awareness more education so i feel you know great this is a step in one direction he seems to have a plan to address that contamination issue he tell you how much money for this education know it's existing people it's this right right he's moving your recycling people in program into procedural we're going to return do you want me to write it up and come up with something or we just quit staff ok thank you because i want to get the language is done as best as possible up front then to the equipment for expansion positions and that's so very achieve at those numbers members which thank you you know we always get the audit and the audit has been saying we need to get that grants manage their position and i guess we just have to weigh how often we want to see that significant find significant finding that what is called show up on the audit versus the manager so i'm i would like to see the manager it's been almost four years now that we've tried to come up with that you know for me mr coates i proposed this in this manner because i just remember going through move one position in like it was over a year or sixteen months that we we tried and that position was never even able to get filled actually you guys gave the  the department of personnel's i don't know if they're state rules or administrative rules that they have to follow put a hamper on that reclassification we had to you know way to do a reorganization reclassification get all of that approved by the managing director of the unions get it back for consultation presented again we had it was a new classification so we had to present that statewide to all of the different employers and see if they would agree to a screening that classification then it was back to us and then trying to do the recruiting in by that time you guys had already had at the s oh that's possible fun add the money into the to the mayor's office we can make it a point and unfortunately the only place you have appointed positions is in the mayor's office them i'd be happy to manage them mr chair mr coach i hate to challenge mr baez because he's usually right but you have a point of positions in each department the  that restricts by in the budget ordinance we have the legislative branch and the mayor's office not restricted to section five ok well but that's our rule and threats easy i love your suggestion just and if it can go under his department that's fine that way if they aren't doing the job we just yank their salary terminate that individual we can terminate they can well we can i guess we just cut off the challenge for this person and one of the objectives that i would expect them to accomplish if they are successful would be and we've talked about it one of the benefits would be negotiating a better indirect cost rate and possibly bring in more money to come you know eventually you know we can pay for them with that so that would be one of their objectives and if it doesn't work and if you know they don't perform and produce why we want to do this and i think that you know in the private sector you have goals and objectives in your job and if you don't do it well you know so i'm willing to be innovative try something different because that's the whole nature of grants you know the whole process is you apply and it's rolling the dice sometimes you get sometimes you don't get but you know what is the percentage of get and what do you produce and how do you manage grants do you have trouble with the funding agencies can you bring them innovative but do you think it's time we were innovators i like t of i agree with miss by so on this at the same time the part of the challenge of this manager is going to have to deal with is the is that the challenge from the auditors seems to be that the departments and finance are not talking talking or not getting educated so that the tracking of the and and payments on the grants are being done properly so i like the idea of putting them in mr boss is department and i and i think missed by says focus for that person is very appropriate i'm not sure that we can look at this as a way of fixing the audit concern which is in finance but i'm i think i'm more comfortable with the focus that that has come up now than i am with just put in some in finance to make sure that the accounting is done right ike because i can't tell whether that's a training issue  covered or simply new grants far outweighs the the clerical stuff the finance is going to have to figure out how to fix so i would support that  far as if that's going to be the innovative description that we're going to have for this grants manager to go ahead and be the  grant writer if it if that's the intent and then but you still have to deal with finance because the departments you know what i can identify is to what is really the problem with with departments as far as managing the grant and the disbursement of the funds because the end result is finance science a check if it the monies go in to if we receive a grant the i think the last signature comes from the finance department so going back to mr white's are we really addressing the problem from the managing of the  grants as it or whatever steps you have because if they're in putting the monies up if housing has a hundred dollar grant and they process  somebody's got to input that one hundred dollars from finance and somebody got assigned a check so who's who's checking on who y that wouldn't be writing grants right but there as as those of you in this room that have written grants before know there's a lot of background information that's required to to process the the indirect overseeing the grant writers and the grant managers that are out there in the departments receiving these grants to make sure that they're following be super circulars to make sure that the revenue that we're expecting to get from the  grant actually ever comes in on a timely basis and that it gets reported properly i see a significant deficiencies in in that area and that i think the county would benefit from financially  just just in that cleanup as well as in of course the audit finally just meant i also see this person doing training in the department you know with but they do write grants and receive the grant excellence over grant uppers we have tremendous grant writers the fact that we're being you know the money we are in my mind is amazing but it doesn't mean we need to take it to hiring people and this person could also be a liaison with finance to make sure that there's better communication but you know if they're tied up with other things it's everybody somebody and nobody thank you and i would see for the cheer they did make it a priority one would be on working with the correct then we can work on the next step which is what is bob i say saying which makes sense to me not sure what i volunteered here for but you know we are ok let's get back to work mr couch again that was i believe that was a concern for the audit because only one person was doing things and didn't really have good oversight internal yeah it was kind of an internal control thing whether they can do that with what they have now might be something to discuss but that was another audit issue i understand and my thing is i'm willing to give them a year and measure their ability to perform and then make that corporate adjustment the next budget reasonable consensus  this move to premium pay let's see that this is going to have them have thirty thousand i reduce professional services accounts program hundred ninety five thousand those the expansion was to upgrade ifas accounting software and we got a updated bid on that and we actually have a new quote guard and it's one hundred seventy nine thousand dollars versus one hundred ninety five if you wanted to still put it in and reduce that one hundred twenty thousand was to develop the paperless  forms the we've been trying to get more paperless in the colony and so that hundred twenty thousand those was done some of the purchasing stuff and then we wanted to do the travel order vendor actions in the fixed you're trying to retain this is a new go into a new paperless system so it doesn't affect what mr hall comus concern about retaining records yeah that's correct they they want to make it so that you can fill out a travel order request on the computer instead of having to do it triplicate long letter form so i think that's a valid thing that they i mean that that does two things one it a gets rid of a bunch of paperwork that we have to deal with and the bunch of paperwork that we have to store forever and figure out what to do how do archive it so i think it's a i guess an internal cloud if you want to call it that database system and set of servers that are housed within this building and then they're looking at the redundancy and they keep police station it would not be held in i guess the general terms of the cloud meaning like some google drive or or one drive or some other service like that equipment three thousand that was for the expansion of consensus well sorry that was for both expensive positions and worth considering you're considering adding the grants manager to mr i don't know where the equipment would come from but we need to do it somewhere we have a half staff work with mr bowser to see what is appropriate consideration for us thank you there are other components one year to be able to see what kind of success they have before i look at this expansion positions because i if i feel if that program really works any successful they don't need all these positions so i think that the rector is trying something different and i'm willing to support him and give him a year so we can look at the measurements and that is why i feel that at this time we can d er for this year this requests questions issues so what i i support what you're saying i agree that the combination of the online services and ability did do a lot of the m b work online plus the kiosks should reduce the need for the service attendant anyone else do if consensus professional services by hundred thirty nine thousand leaving them with two hundred twenty five thousand and every deuce their software to thirty five thousand dollars questions  chair i agree with the reduction to auto plates and tags because they had a considerable amount of money that is encumbered and they've  got enough money and that remaining in this year's budget to make another order so i think what you've given them should last easily through the for the next year the one concern that i have that i don't recall where the whether the kiosk is something they have money for in this year's budget or whether that's somewhere in believe it's in this this two thousand and sixteen budget i just want to make sure we don't cut the kiosk but you know mr simile no mr chair thank you the funding related to the kiosk program is booked on their miscellaneous other costs which is an item the chair proposed to not the i am proposing under real property the addition of two positions a complaint specialist one a complaint specialist which would be an ad for about forty eight but i was in seven sixty four for the first year which is only partially your friend and what the church looks forward to is the potential additional five million dollars in revenue that is to employees will be that's see yes ma'am we skipped the county why costs when we were doing the consensus part of the review because these will be adjusted once we know what's going to be mean a lot of adjustments in this department members my concern is i don't want this to be a loose train because i can see this becoming like hospitals for the state and then eventually going to be looking privatizing because we won't be able to afford the way we operate currently contract negotiator or someone that would  bargaining table so all i give you a little bit more in the next round but i just let you know that that's part of the consideration and the way contracts have been going against the county as an employee your we need better people representing us at the people so i just wanted to shoot it with you under three forty five i'm recommending deletion of the secretary three and the information you know they've asked for the secretary three for almost think every year i've been here it might be worth giving them a try for that one getting soft  my issue it performance expect better get on better price so i thank you for mentioning that you know when we when we look at adding positions it's quite often so over time and my understanding is in the last seven or eight years we've gone from three battalion chiefs to six cheese and if you if all of you look at your counts in fire under operations you'll find six positions for battalion chief and the premium pay i'm out for those six three yes because then the overtime will be within the cost that we have for just salaries so you know i i bring that only because you know i like everyone else i have a lot of respect for this department and their professionalism in almost everything they do there for their fiscal management and schedule is something i'm not sure i'm terribly comfortable with and so at that's why i have a difficult time supporting additional staff when i don't feel there's a a level of this go responsibility that i can say i'm really comfortable with they've really got  fired and some of it is not within the chief's purview at all it makes for rank recall is something that was put upon him and he has to deal with negotiator totally outmaneuver not gun whoever was representing the counties in the state unfortunately it's resulted in roughly two million dollars over time going to the top three hundred fifty people in the department to put that in perspective that two million dollars per year could pay for thirty million dollars and  pay the debt service over time so these are these are choices that are being were not being allowed to have because we've been outmaneuvered and i think that's the reason why you brought up the issue of having a professional negotiator on our side and so i would i would support that notion because i think i think we need to have arguments being made on both sides and you know it's got no point where not just in this department alone but where many of our positions are still under where the private sector is but a large number of a couple years ago a sixty five percent of the of the public positions were paid higher than those in the private sector and then if you add the benefits on top of that it well exceed what happens in the private sector so these are things that are difficult from my perspective because i have a foot in both and when i see the private sector having to reach into their pockets to pay their taxes and we're we can't control our expenses to the degree that they're having to control theirs it just makes it harder and harder to ask the private sector to keep paying the tab for for some excessive spending that hopefully we can control it some point hour service and they reduce fire to somewhere they went to all volunteers because they don't have the money to be some counties are in that have not done well in rebounding from the recession yet and those are the kind that tough choices that they've made to fit their budgets fortunately we know they're  accumulate somewhat similar to that work ok if you don't have your members i mean you know but he goes down the line if he's actually making concessions yeah review the chiefs   so everything's the status quo sure mr cochran yeah i don't agree with that fire chief is all good finally that department is really worked hard and i know you're i know your reasons and justifications which is very you know it's true but he fell it's they're good to go and they're ok with those things kind of left hanging a little bit and should be sewn up real quick merger thank you for the chair it's a matter of policy and contract i really you know i mean i appreciate the department's comments but we set the tone and the policy and th we need to remember who was last in the series that's the one of us mr coach except for by charter on that one thing the chief sets that timeline in the charter yeah but we control the funding risk so definitely we don't have consensus so we'll move page fifteen housing the main concerns was the census on the housing program and i recommended reduction of for those for me i think you can perform plus little confidence that this congress will be some point to a lot of the entitlement programs because the defense talk is going to win and they're going to put billions back for you fence it's going to come at the cost of social programs yeah i know it's more about the cult my confident lack of confidence that congress is going to provide sufficient funding for these programs in the near future the next few days you're going to be hopefully surprised with the type of resolutions coming out of the house and sen so up seventy thousand i need some so whose feet do a hotel fire department works for us but they're not making a call sixty two thousand dollars is developed between the department and the four grand t's that they have the amounts that each grantee would be receiving is cooperative on history of each of the agencies and how much they've been actually able to utilize because some of the agencies are very specific with women helping women only services their clients  life center serve the broad community so restricting it to two hundred thousand dollars in each grant i think some will be over funded and some will be of underfunded but i'm not sure what the  breakdown should be if you do want to make it council designated they can get you the numbers to make it provides a specifically for those agencies if you'd like mr chair is there a reason why it's only for agencies  history about the agencies that have over the years applied for the original funding and continue to apply for it the department does put out applications from time to time and these are the four he concedes that have developed expertise in that part of the chord nation that they have is that they need to make sure that they're communicating well enough because when the program was first developed we had individuals who were going from agency to agency trying to double dip you know getting rental assistance and so we had to make sure we had cordoned needed you know listings  together i don't know what the thing is right today because it's been four years or so since i was out of it but that's the way we had to develop this program but in the past kind of homeless right now and one of the things that happens with this money is that it does prevent rescue people from it you know people that are going to be thrown out on the street because they can't pay their rent anymore if they can to you know be on their own and that we you know we're not going to find him meeting a whole bunch of other services because they're homeless so the timing of this right no scary for me because we have such a away any of the funding it's just going to be worse and but i do think that i like the idea i prefer the idea that maybe we get some history of how the agencies developed and allocations were given to different organizations there were some organizations that could spend down the whole amount some that didn't and similar to you know how we get county allocation sometimes you hear all county of city county who couldn't spend it so we got the sex tr money because we could spend that kind of a situation is how i think the amounts have been developed to this point i'll get you the exact amounts here and thank you for the questions comments especially in a follow up here just one other thing it's my understanding that i don't know about any of it into his but i do know that him you spend down all of its funds and i think they're all i don't know do they all run out maybe somebody can tell us are to prevent homeless or even case management so i want to diddle we working to prevent or help  you i wish i had a conversation we wanted to developers was going to be starting a major project in general mali and they're utilizing this take ownership to someone he should be expended by the individual families and saw in a took it to heart and he said he'd go back and talk with holly mall because i think when you get it absolutely free you don't really take the benefit and you don't really know what it's all about as far as taking ownership if you've got to put some money out especially you know my suggestion was it would be to have to one hundred dollars if they complete the course and they get fifty dollars back or something like that you know it was a like you would also much you complete the course and then you get refunded at the end and that weight the program is has ownership by the individual and when you put money out you tend dissipate you know it doesn't have to be large sums of money but if they're happening five six hundred people and even twenty five fifty dollars a person or couple whatever it might be that's a that's a nice chunk of change coming in so  i think i can support your your your reduction they do good program and i do like that and i think that's one of the real issues with people buying homes and not being prepared you know they have the income but they don't have created reading they have too much debt this is a method to really educate these young people or people not have to be young and how to get ready to buy a whole or condo or whatever it might get whatever it might  funding over last years amount and you know i think this is a very valuable program that's that's why i support what you did i would add to mr victory in those thoughts that the developers can also pony up some money to help this help this program help the people that will be buying houses or lots from them so i'd like to see them go out and talk to the developers that are going to be utilizing the service and and ask them to do a cautionary of some sort thank you and by the way i'm sorry that was reviving a discussion is cost sharing i apologize i missed that mr white mr victory you know also part of the cost sharing could be the realtors to the realtors so she to maui comes here all the time and they do classes and things like that so you might want to talk with them too about helping them out i've recommended a small reduction of five thousand five hundred for early childhood resource and a reduction of hundred thousand so the net appropriation if you look members is still over quite quite a million dollars more than this year going up two hundred thirty seven thousand dollars more regarding it only because i see them important human concerns program in regards to the efforts in early childhood wasteful so i'm trying to make sure we don't fall into that situation also but we'll be happy to revisit and the reduction of equipment yes it was there any discussion on that i think that was the there was some of the cars that was used for the believe that we were replacing all of the vehicles that were being disposed of mr thank you and that human concerns program the equipment request total approximately two hundred thousand dollars and we cut that in half or the chair proposed to cut that in half thank you you know that asking eight what gets a place for yeah you know and there's the other four were still running yeah i decided to replace the four that they chose to already dispose of ok so they have eight vehicles and so i say to support half and replace only half read this thing and then look to next year if she what and then we'll see  partnership grants and census and again members you know with the adjustments we made in the grant program you know like we just leave it at the current funding level  that that was your philosophy i know a lot of these one or many of us are going to request an increase so only to be fair unless they don't really need it but i think like mr victorio said they did request so that's why i would want to revisit it only to be fair if we end up doing others if we if we say no to everybody then that's fine but i don't want to discount them if we do increase somebody else come up with your payment plan i mean how you want to pay for it mr white's consideration how to approach this for the next round you know it's a victory you know the only thing i would disagree with him is like for example concert a preschool they said that that was enough and in this would be the last year would you be open to it like for example you did not want to fund any of the new requests but would you be open if we would to put in so let's say fifty percent of something to get started for  would you have much well we could put it if you want if you if you allow us and i guess we'll go from there so i think i answered my own question yeah well again members we have my thought i proposed a very reasonable considerations for the committee to consider so you have their response do we have consensus well the only thing is mr chair i know you look at all as far as th i did have a bigger among yes you did thank you and i took it that it was into consideration the stick out which ok but understanding how they are funded you and your right ios i thought you know reasonable adjustments was ok and that's why and i know he worked hard and he police station project i don't want he's a saint but i know they got bodies and this was a reduction morry in their professional services or reduced it by eighty five thousand leaving them one hundred eighty thousand in every tuesday or a training fifteen so that's your ninety thousand cut members right i believe and i can't remember who told me that told us i think here that they needed i think another twenty cutting seventy thousand for the motor pool project and thirty thousand for the eat three one one project thank you thank you very just moments and you know i have to point out that we had to ask what the seventy thousand dollars for the motor pool program was and that really should have been equipment not in professional services so you know we only learned of it because we happen to ask a more detailed question intensity let's move to let's see i had recommended moving from the mayor's office to the management department the seventy five thousand for the economic and concerns about this move be legitimate and i think that because a lot of this is used for the energy conference and other things that it's it's not unheard ascription it wasn't really the kinds of things that are in the purview of the person in the management arm and has a more focus on you see batters in much more technical types of things so i currently is in the mayor's office and i agree with him i had proposed to moving it to the management department to assist the current energy coronated that's in that department since we management project manager because we've got the kiva project and we've got some others that are going to be coming down the line we could do professional services but it would be much more expensive that in this case it would be much more expensive than hiring our in in house person normally i am a proponent of doing it perfect professional services outside of the county but this one we would save by far as far as the information analyst systems analyst five i believe that to assist in this cyber security which as you are well aware is not getting any easier it's getting much harder i bet if we put twenty people in there we're going to still be you know fight them off at the fence so you know i'm just one to help out the people that are trying to do it right now so that's my that's why i would like to revisit that that's my just thank you yeah i just visited yesterday entity that has one hundred twenty five security specialist with the size and complexity and the broad application of the replacement it it probably makes sense for us to move in the direction of the general manager project manager because i do think it has a level of complexity of bullying and various people in various departments together to make sure that things e i think security is something that you can get a little more assistance from outside sources that can come in and show you what you need to do and leave town without us project manager not analyst but we'll be back there we have consensus on general management project manager consensus so sure ok thank you mr chair the other thing that they were position is currently housed in the prosecutor's office it was previously grant funded and my notes indicate that this person is responsible for managing the flow of data between the police department and the prosecutor's office and that the  it's my rationale but they don't have anybody i just think they have i think susan underwood does most she was the one that helped build a kiva system along twenty years ago and she you know helps with maintaining it but nobody is there specific analyst maybe we can look into that chair i said of hiring somebody if somebody is within the system i can understand you know maybe i don't know reminded me of something i recall that in one of the revolving funds there's a kiva position so the question in my mind is whether or not the one of the revolving funds could actually pay for this right steph can you tell me the revolving fun please oh i that might be the one that i know the person you're referring to that's one that expert as far as how to manipulate through the data and get it she has no questions her responsibility is with what the revolving plan fund pays for which is permanence not managing the system itself so she's the you know oversees the permits section and but but she just one of her other duties as assigned is is being able to assist other users in answering their questions if they have a interface question about how to how to use it if they have a problem with it that kind of thing not what what i t's looking for is somebody to actually manage the change process from and i understand that but i guess my my point asking that that fund be used to he's asking you to find another the correct if it was a management ok that's right the only issue and i'm fine with that too the only issue is once the kiva project is done you keep it in if you keep it in management or the proposal if you can we additionally and ministry of overhit assessed all of the departments for the work of this employee  yes there would be i mean the that's the whole basis of the overhead cost allocation is that they took every aspect of the county functions like  a p and allocated each one of their times a you is as council members you know your everything that you guys do to a certain extent is for other departments so your costs then are then charged to the department so yes if we did another cost allocation plan this new position would be included in that as well king thank you for that he will come back to some members it down to seventy thousand i reduced our am contracts eight hundred thirty four thousand leaving them two million dollars we had asked him to provide us the payment schedule possibilities for kiba to see if we could push some of this into two thousand and seventeen and we'd also asked him to give us  a likely payment schedule for the replacement of computers because he's got a significant amount of money in this years and he's gotten about nine hundred thousand dollars remaining this year maybe it's not that  his one year payment schedule then he said this is i mean he's basing this on couple of things that the project management position is approved one hundred ten thousand equipment requirements software design two million hardware two hundred seventy thought was in configuration five hundred seventy so his  is three million fifty thousand the second year requests for support would go down to eight hundred thousand dollars and of course he says this is pending the result of negotiations regarding this contract so that's what he has and you should have all a copy of this i see it as part of the distribution operations that the the amount that they have there i believe it you have there is two point the two million dollars that you're leaving in there for our name service contracts yes those are the contracts for the i think he was up here telling us the contracts for all the software maintenance and they all come up due at the end of the fiscal year so it looks like there's a big balance but he pays it off and june and one big chunk so pretty much all of that is taken up by those contracts the other eight hundred was the are eight hundred eighty nine i believe was the life cycle replacement they're basically outsourcing all of the the computer maintenance as opposed to keeping it in house there for freeing the folks inside so that's why the  the big increase in the arnim at this time was abuzz yeah i think it was chair so that the nine hundred thousand dollars was for four hundred per year over five years for replacement and maintenance of desktop computers so this would be in lieu of the normal request that you receive in the quitman side of things to replace three four five six hundred computers at a time comparison assessment in one thousand vestment findings that maui is at point nine percent versus the industry peers at three point six percent and its spending as a percentage of operating budget  you know we're right at it this is a study that was done a while back traditionally the focus is on running ideas being keep the lights on where it's ninety four percent worth the industry peers or a seventy five percent and there's not enough on growing or transform service in capabilities so it's a coach when you get that industry peers become perry to companies so yes azan finances yes that was the study that was done we looked at i that's not my recollection my recollection is that when mr jerome came in and looked at the study done by your friends from gartner he said the peers that they're using are all federal and very different kinds of programs they're not really truly true peers of the county of maui so that was why you and i and others started feeling like gardner was here to create more work for themselves and help us understand what our shortcomings  you get your copy i'm just wonder if you provide a payment schedule for the lifecycle five million to two point five other reductions included equipment really to expand positions as well as the i face up greed and cashiering software in a corporation existing position or position the chairman of this case because from the way i got responses or lack of from this office t who it is or what position it is but because it is an existing position it comes under the office of the mere i choose to not be in sometimes looks more like a campaign committee than an operation running the county it seems to focus a little bit more on face time than getting the job done so i and i've said it last year and said again that the office the mayor's offices and other counties are staffed more sparsely and we are and but at the same time i i don't feel compelled to eliminate five positions but that ok with some of the other reduction oh yes thank you very much looked at the reductions in reality didn't sit in on the members of the mayor's staff showed up to testify that's when i put the pieces together and realized the position that this involves and i would like to support leaving if leaving it there i think it's important thank you thank you yes miss yeah i too was you know just informed this afternoon in terms of  the what position that that entails i have more concerns about the what do you call it the office of public information and the title of it as it being the county of maui public information office and the director of that and it seems to me that a lot of the press is out of that office is not really geared towards the county of maui but more towards the  mayor's i would say in mr white's terms campaign but i that's where i would be looking at in what is that function in terms of are they representing the county or if if they aren't then let's remove the name or the title and that office of public information thank you for your concern thank you chair after listening to the testimony from than one floor i had to reflect on my own situation i'm just  a council member and i i'm elected by the entire county of mostly and i try to be responsive and open to all because deterrence and it can be very learning curve so i can imagine what administration goes through not to take away what mr white and some of the politics but i too because my constituents are across the waters and the process we have to go through to be able to talk to the different departments is always a respons imagine what it may be on the ninth floor and yet i'm not out there publicly ongoing i mean like mr victor reno he's out there a lot so i can't imagine how much his staff has to be readily available to be responsive if he's not available but you know and for that reason i support the life positions that are there which without delving into the the all the internal what have use i'm just looking at it from after listening to testimony maybe we need to ask everybody else of a look at last year the council adopted was seventeen one point seven seven million this year without adding the budget office back and all the real deductions it's one point six four million so it's one of the few places that  are being cut you know a lot of the other departments are actually being increased ever so slightly but increased nonetheless so you know i mean i'm not sure how long ago that department had any salary there's about a five thousand copy mr boss is up there i'm just curious if he could tell us what the heck that is it might be the one that prints all the prints money so it doesn't matter  it doesn't kick so that's where the cheese on this one do you have consensus no i was going to ask mr boss what that what the it's a buzz real quick  they we have one two three copier four copiers and printing machines upstairs they do you know the copying and printing for most of the office including the most of the budget documents that you see here we print on those machines i haven't no clue in but i'll come up with a number but this is the area where we would look at to put the grants manager that the audit spoke of right within this lane i don't under the budget office so this is where it would be placed mr buzz sees us sees me too much to do it yes all of the planning commission ones and occasionally different other commissions so as i said i can advocate but i can't you know for me mr cox i prefer that they do more live meetings then repeat a lot of the old meetings over and over so i want to go to the new program and current meeting schedules and not repeating meetings coverage i mean i know that's not what we do now because we're not quite going out district by district for it but it could be some hot topics coming up but i don't know it was just that could be part of expansion  that's coming from the committee so i think we can deal with it in that manner misplaced well you know we're really good at doing surveys we might want to serve be what commissions and boards the public wants really watch because our whole swatches all of them i mean we we don't have a life so when we're not watching council we watch boards and commissions some of them are very interesting meetings and you know you hate to even leave the room and others are not so maybe we should ask the public what they want to see they keep track of what's what's on our our schedule also how do we do that mr boyd thank you i would appreciate a favor everyone would send their comments to you there my office or council services director's office because we are in the process of renegotiating the arca contract within the next month or so but commissions as possible of course the most popular ones are the planning commission as as usual so but they do try to hit some other words in commissions as well salary commission cost the government in other kind of stuff  yes where water supply different things like that i will discuss this new whatever whatever the number is i can we can discuss this you know within the mayor's office and with a  additional funds because basically what happens is we go through the year and towards you know made june they start running out of money because you know the originally allocate ok we can do this much boards and commission meetings but  sometimes those special planning commission meetings are not nearly as long as your guys meetings but they hadn't been saved longer than than they budgeted you mean initially so sometimes that you know they increase the cost a little bit  meetings as some in the neighborhood of six hundred forty or fifty dollars per day i think and then it that's just for the basic meeting and it goes up from there so it's not a it's not a small amount of money you know it's  and something else i thought of they do have additional costs because the commission meetings are not held in a location like this where the equipment is always there right so they have to go and set it up and break it down and then do the editing said that our house watches are a lot but i want to say that you know i'm out in the community a lot and i suspect my peers here are the same thing people watch and they watch the meetings and it's amazing how many of them will discuss what they saw so i think this is a good use of money i think it's very informative and it's a way to people that can't come here get to see what's going on so it is you know a good use of money and i think a couple  budgeting i want to see how they can perform this year hearing their concerns and what i think they can do as management in the next year or two just months with the actual that we're going to get for this year last year and then your success or failure when you troll money get there and signed and i got this new money you can point to figure out what the hell is the true measurement then that the agency o program my wrinkles don't get any better or worse but i don't know but he did say because they're having a difficult time because now the screen has got to come on john help me out mr chair yeah mr johnson came yeah and testified he testified about this money originally and then the conversation got into this chamber which is different than this money that some money that you guys haven't and that these cameras have a four by three ratio instead of a high definition sixteen by nine ratio and yes we got into a lot of technical terms that's like from digital to analog and basically the gist of it was that we need to work on upgrading this tired i'm sorry yeah yeah and so i'd like to twenty five back in there to make sure that this money's along with all the other festivals and other issues we were promoting i go culture try out this colony so i'd like to yeah i too would support that as well in my proposal i i provided the proviso in there for fifty thousand for the whole life farmers united now a chapter for their farm and training and so remediation program united twenty thousand for their farm apprentice mentoring program and also thirty five for  hire them for themselves a grant writer which they feel they can recoup a lot of money into their organisation  i know that they think he may not have applied through the office of economic development but they did receive the the grant for the twenty thousand last budget some of the existing to maybe be able to take within those parameters additional considerations so it's think about approaching it in that manner and if they didn't apply because budget session we did appropriate from the promotional fund i mean the program here because of the fact that they're actually doing outreach to  the youth and going to different schools things like that and more promoting the younger generation to look into the culture coach while he's looking to support i put in my proposal the twenty thousand because i believe that's what they asked for at least in my e mail but i also remember coming to in route and i know i know but that i'm just i'm just suggesting this is a fledgling organization and i wouldn't have a problem with a lower amount but you can get people to write specific tripling the funny that we're providing that one organization so i'm a little uncomfortable with that but i'd be happy with an additional twenty good it's good  them to get on firmer ground and to build a stronger foundation i think the their outreach into the community and has been awesome so far that they're growing and they need a little bit more assistance in order to continue their growth so i know i have their breakdown some are here and i'm trying and i'm still very very much in support and believe the money will be through the other pots to get the additional funds rather than so i if it's if it's not given if the thirty five doesn't come down to twenty and i'd like to revisit a little list would be ok if somebody would be yeah and i get a lot of information about alerts and when i get i almost was looking for them and i have forwarded a few opportunities but you know it will take somebody to actually do it but i don't know if they could possibly be one of their friends or whatever to write the grant and i don't know how much that person would want  i don't i don't know if it would want thirty five thousand usually you write for a grant and you take a percentage of that's right if you're an independent grant writer  a no no that's where we're at fifty thousand i move to remove the every request to delete consensus three we witch county paid half and states being if we want to do it on maui the state said they would pay half when we would come up the other half otherwise the state's not going to do it on my own so it's really up to this the county mare's office was interested in this one is because it's in it's an independent from the funded study you know since we're funding it we get to directed versus if one of the agra companies was funding it then they would be direct and they have lots of studies already did say that their stuff safe right so if they're going to be funding another study it's how trustworthy do we have to say that that study is worth anything so that's kind of what the where we're coming from with this proposal so it's thank you very much i said it the first time we discussed this and i haven't changed my mind i do not think this is a good use of money i think that if we're going to do any kind of a study we should sit down and determine what needs and then  study the issue with you know having the other companies study or pay for the study they've paid for millions of studies and they the opponents don't believe that those studies are worth anything so you've got to have an independent study so it's got to be done partially by the state partially by the county and partially by maybe the universities it's got to be spread about and independent it cannot be paid for by the industry because there are already studies out there that they don't believe so you know you can't have it both ways you either independent study or paid for by the industry and those studies are there already so i'm fine with a study of some sort but not a mediation thank you for your comments mr cochran thank you chair and i'm i'm good for consensus on deletion the reason for asking a fourteen could be change and basically of the words is water you know testing waters testing soil samples and things of that sort right to see what's what is there it's a fairly you know because the operations at least on know fairly confined we could be doing some air quality water quality and soil testing to see what the impact is and that would give us either cause for concern or cause to relax a little bit so i don't feel that having a mediator come in here and rehash what's been  pushed back and forth across the desk is going to do much to help but i would support a change in the number of possibly increasing it to provide some fairly soil and water this point i'd rather go with nothing until we figure out what we really want by missed by sources and then we're willing to put some money behind of it but i don't want to spend fifty thousand to have a media come up here and mediate that's not what we  saw this cruel i would have to say i would go along with what mr boyd is proposing but i'd also like to clarify this is really this there yet so i don't see us putting this fifty thousand dollars at this the age i also agree that maybe we need to do so in an era study and then  to pay for it i cannot see the companies that are in existence for instance on malky that we would pay for there yes and fifty thousand would not  cover it not one bit so you know i i i would choose at this point if we can consents to this different studies and independent  was looking at it from a more different perspective members i had left this in because it was it was something i wanted discussion on and thank you for your discussion departments have been given by congress responsibilities to perform my fingers more i was thinking more taking the state to court for not fulfilling their responsibilities that they have been given to perform regarding this subject area look at county money to do state work ok so for me i'm thinking of potential litigation if we have a basis i don't have a problem taking them to court we've taken them to court on other issues not necessarily this subject area but you know there comes a point where the so i can go with the this can go with another number or for a specific thing that we can get consensus on i spoke with some of the folks that the department of ag that did the one study that they came in here and told us that they did and only two samples here on maui and they're very interested in doing something course they have limited fund funds but they also said that they would prefer multiple funds so that they can't be pointed out and saying you know it's a biased study so i think that's why  up you have violin you know that's that's that's what this whole mass has been all about is all the studies that have been done have been independent if we get multiple findings then you've got you can be assured it's an independent so and they're very willing to come to the soil air and water samples just from maui county in the all the places necessary and they could do it for around a hundred thousand for a full year study i mean this is a full year study not not just you know one time here and be done with it so baseline and then what happens during the course of the year  it's something that maybe not right now but i think we would want to encourage the administration to get involved in and see if we can all get together and i'll chip in and do something well they're in session right now and so they should be able to train convince the legislature that this is a priority issue in the state affecting all counties in the state needs to get a department the money to do their job there to your your perspective on this but at this at the same time we have picked up after the state on many other occasions where it's a it's a  county environmental issue and other things that i don't i would love to think that they can come up with the money and maybe they can in the next week or so but i think we need to be at least cognizant of the fact that this this is something that the law was passed by the people of this this county and this is a way that we could respond  least help focus what the issues might be i can go either way i can be comfortable putting one hundred thousand dollars in for us for the study  enough to the legislature that's the lead it out of our budget they're in session they can provide one hundred thousand to their deep own department and we have staff to draft a letter to the legislature stating that we feel this is a state responsibility and that we appreciate their offering up fifty thousand we'd like it to be put towards air quality water that i needed a written out in black and white so the members are very clear what the proviso is here yes yes ma'am i we sayn that we're moving this fifty to would pick the seat time and then would take a short break the chair is recommending reduction to the current year fifty level i mean for me this was  counties are around fifty percent contributing in the state is contributing close to fifty percent in the remainders the feds think that's the way it went it's in our list well she she pulled the state i don't remember what the percentage of where they are in their paperwork here somewhere but they were like yeah he's in thirty percent some as much as forty five almost fifty percent share and three percent is very sick and i would say he should be grateful to get participation that's all i remember name change so what's the name change model which it brought up about mr chair that was i guess the discussion was about this is the auto program and right now it's just it just states mally high school and the suggestion was to take out the word maui and maybe auto program high school auto program so that it can go to other schools right now i guess it all goes to mohai and they distribute it once in a while to another school that was the only reason i put revisit on there and i think most of victoria know there was a challenge because the instructor is being paid directly out of this because he's not a sort of fight teacher and i think that was brought up right mr white and that's why this program has existed because we've been paying that instructor because he's not a sort of teacher i pretty much remember that being said so i might be wrong but i remember that ok now let's frame with a chair i would just it requires a whole lot more than just forty five thousand so this is as mr victory knows it is just a supplement to the instructor's salary and it wouldn't go very far if we decided incorporated other schools and  can thank you see the next one is lane eight one seven culturally night's program issues as to why it was going back down to we're going going down twenty five thousand chair we reduced it by twenty five thousand i think because the film industry film festival was in there and it's been moved to its own line item  for this and i'd like to revisit that what i've been told is that the the request early early on was eight hundred but before i've asked i got reduced by the mayor and then further reduced by us you know if the a went for rebid i'm not sure that i'll add that to their request just should have gone for a rebid we are not made of i kept it at the current news level coach thank you and i agree with mr victory no on the figure the fact that we would add this can also release what they would be spending in their regular budget for the fire ant but i do also agree with mr victory are prioritizing differently now because the public outcry is cokie and fire ants are sort of for going that whole campaign right now because they've got to put all their forces there so we're going to beef up this peach thirty environmental protection there is an expansion request of one hundred thirty thousand six hundred fifty eight dollars for the fire and program that you folks had con a cookie fraud this is what we're appropriating is not the eradication level but it's a it's a very good first step it's a step one of so i would prefer that he three million dollars i'd like to revisit that at some point  and you have a specific issue though and mr coach yeah the more that we can get economic development initiatives going and the more businesses commercial specially commercial taxes we might get so i just think economic development is very important and cutting it i don't know i know and i understand the reason i employee community doesn't really it's not healthy yeah i support this cut because in addition to the other economic pots and i think i think i was the one that initiated this in the beginning three or four years ago but we've also provided funding to be very much the same purpose and i think they've shown that they've done a very good job with those funds this year so i i'm ok to the reason for the revisit is that the behind a restoration foundation behind a harbor improvement project phase two looks as though it will be able to get moving within this fiscal year they said they would be able to start by october of two thousand and sixteen phases one and two are being permanent at the same time and there may be some additional specific permanent for the many many many visitors is really critical and it's cochran's district generates the lion's share of the taxes as you as we all know and i'd like to see and like to see that project move forward know i know he you have the thousand dollars in the mayor's budget is for the improvements or replacement of some of the walkways around the banyan tree it doesn't it's not in the improvement project itself it's adjacent to it huge outreach into the community consensus through a lot of different organizations and i'm stakeholders in our community including the zero in our you know i mean harbors you name it so i think she's done an awesome job and she is  state will take care of their site and county and we're going to taking care counties and yes restriction yes in conjunction with state funding and state or everything so it's a big collaborative partnership type effort that's going to really i page thirty two lying again one zero at one hundred and seventeen thousand not to have mr chair miss you know she more this was for the clerical position you know yeah so i don't support that thing we support them destroyed i agree with your position on the clerical if at some point we can find additional funds to increase the amount of funding for the work plan itself i would be support of that but i i agree i don't think we should be providing the clerical position you know the comments issues we have consensus content just keep moving on  part maintenance and work khamenei and deletion for the parks maintenance budget and we have significantly increased c i p i staff worked on the numbers i don't know if they have them readily available but steph do we have those we'll get it to the committee and my my recollection was there was a i'm not gonna guess at this point tonight i think it was about a two million dollar increase and it may have even been three or four million dollar increase in management my position was that this should not be on a bond mr chair part of the cuts included reducing the tractor with cab they had requested to that was cut to one in amount of ninety five thousand dollars they also requested a large rotary more six or requested that was reduced to three at twenty three thousand apiece as well as reduction for us better with coal hit each at five thousand  members mr coach i have consensus on that when i did not hear what you said on the repairs and maintenance supplies i know mr white agreed with you but i didn't i approached it through the c a p budget instead of the op asking to replace a million dollars that we moved from this line to c a p earlier so it was never historically was that million dollars wasn't there ok so we'll move on ok so we have consensus on the go to planning in development program i had the reduction of premium pay we had consensus on that and then operations i reduced professional members by three hundred thousand and that still leaves them two hundred thousand for professional services and then part of the five and that of again part of the five hundred plows and so they reduce operations by three hundred left two hundred and then for the balance of there are six hundred twenty sixth i was in i have asked you to consider proviso that would be for two hundred for a while it's part master plan park land and i don't know where that stands  plan we can try to get that from the department one recommendation could be that a report be provided in the proviso that a report be provided to coun that's covered it's it's been such a long time and kamin it's and it requires a lot of coordination between planning and parks because this was in check with the department for us that it would be a appreciate before we settle on that it's just a request to them yes it's just a request to them to consider yes to that letter on behalf of the community ok that's good to wreck and support services more thank you mr chair in central maui we reduced an eighteen inch more at twenty five thousand dollars we also reduced utility carts from three to two in east we reduced the budget amount for a tractor more by ten thousand up as well as in west maui reduction of a utility cart we also reduce in west palm again while they requested to morris and we cut that check at that back one more  budget consideration mr white recollections one mr brink can see who was here his number one priority was the vehicle and operations assistance or one expansion leader that revisit  these operations are going to have to deal with the community plans some professional services for them so i would like to revisit that  i want it to be paid into the taxation structure ok let's go to the proviso the force heard my position that i would like great thank you elaine ninety ninety nine and we know your feelings and so you don't go to the next round  my recollection was we were providing the previous level of funding of eighty three plus enough money to take care of the clean and safe program but i don't believe we have enough to do that what they he still gave my hell a lot more than the current the current is eighty three thousand and we're going to give them two hundred and fifty thousand or so in my view they have enough money there to go out and look for some some partners on the infrastructure study if they feel that's appropriate mr couch yeah i was just going to mention that the clean and safe program has a lot of that and i think that yeah i think that  a for the premium pay but his main focus was to get the vehicles for the line districts and when i'm when i mentioned to him that he had the ability to fill in whatever you had reduced the premium paid by getting money out of his vacant positions he pretty much agreed with that so now vehicles for the outlying districts don't amount to very many my recollection is maybe two or three but they've also just purchased on budgeted eight because he asked us for two hundred and fourteen cut sixty four i left him with one hundred and fifty thousand dollars for what thing says investigative services  it's looks like you cut about twenty percent twenty twenty percent of everything chair i'm i'm ok cutting back cutting the one thirty two and half and the four twenty one and half agree  and my recollection was that he did not request as a priority any of the equipment or down and technical support services and they would he didn't even be or have a problem with either the premium pay or the reduction operations consensus and yes this mr chair would we do on ten twenty one ten twenty one one  operations cut like reduced training registration fees issues consensus i don't have an issue i hold on a line ten forty four and forty four consensus consensus advertising by twenty five thousand leaving their fifty we do see professional services for the amas for down to two hundred fifty thousand the period maintenance  agreed with the reduction and as long as he had billeted to move the funds around between those four items that you mentioned that would be on him to be a comment so that i think it's up to him that would be up to him  up that type of that amount from the traffic calming fund money's he's ok they haven't been getting so many requests anymore that they could alleviate that much money to had any increases since the year two thousand or so i think i thought it's been a long time coming and they've been added responsibilities throughout the years to  we've added to the department through the pavement restoration and paving teams and i think think it's appropriate for us to see how that settles out they still haven't filled one of the positions in the paving crew so i would prefer to wait on the labor until we see how the department shakes out because i know the line of crew has helped a lot and the other districts on the paving and their i support what they do but  the public transit program right ten thousand they've asked for fifty and i'm leaving them with forty we would leave them with the same amount that you have you show what they paid expended this year mr chair for fiscal year fourteen they spent  forty six thousand eight hundred thirty two even though they're only budgeted forty thousand up to fiscal year two thousand and fifteen up and to that we have a two twenty eight report rate here they've spent twenty three thousand and six fifty nine with another nineteen thousand in cumbered to spend a little bit more than forty thousand a year i think we can still do the job i want to see they perform dollars we gave them six million this year so they have a slight increase this is mr chairman and the leaving the transit center coach on the fair assistance since you're proposing a fare increase i think that's important that we leave the fair system in there so i'd like to revisit that and same thing with the transit center i'd like to have more discussion on that me because i think that's a very important aspect of emil's putting together what i call a more efficient know this was a request as a placeholder in case we did get the funds it did become available so so we can reduce it then yeah i mean it would be nice to have some for audit what is there an audit that you want to do and don't want to pay as much or i don't know i don't understand that line there was requested to us from to us it was requested the fifty thousand requests from the mayor fiscal year fourteen they spent forty four thousand three fifty eight i thought that was the other sounds like the other that was the other one you were talking about transit general fund was actually transportation service is what it says on this in this report i have to look up the actual details of what the expenditures were and that would just as increase based on an actual expenditures it doesn't  say what those actual expenditures were and similarly have anything else on that highway fun in this chair i may have misspoke but they were similar amounts so yes one of them was related to the printing and binding the other was re  to an audit that the department transportation had reached out to the county auditor and they had declined and so it was an audit to ensure that they were in conformance with all the federal report hundred thousand per transit if you leave it the three percent increase so it takes you down from two point one million to two million unfortunately mr chair we've got more of a need for paratransit service i mean it's just a need that we have to provide five that that shows an increase to what your proposal was a little over four hundred thousand dollars is that eight five number is is the actual for last year or for this fiscal year i'm sorry while he's looking it up i can let you know that this public transit program highway funding clued the paratransit contract as well as the fixed route and commuter contract and if the five percent was left in for the commuter and fixed route contract that's the significant portion of this ten million dollars so  i was because a contractual requirements there but even though it was contractual they haven't gotten it for the last couple of years if i recall right so i guess another favorite subject department of water supply america many new reduction in premium pay a fifty four seven hundred intensive consensus i am recommending reducing operations by one point two million dollars that's hundred thousand leaving them four hundred thousand i reduced their store inventory expense by fifty two to four hundred thousand and their computer services have adjusted it a sixty fifty six thousand leaving them one hundred sixty five thousand and then they basically and then i was sick reduce their software mon any reasoning for getting rid of the billing system we are still be would be more dependent on what we want and what we need to go i just find their process and the kind of money the asking me to program that you had proposed to delete however the exhibit one and did not reflect the e p change and there was no funding associated with these l t s in the proposal my recollection of they were going to pay for those l t s out of the million dollars i tend to agree with the chair that this isn't baked yet  and you know i have a hard time understanding you know water water systems to me are they're not like ifas they're not like the kiva system can't get real comfortable that this isn't something that can be bought for off the shelf and some other systems and you know i may be totally wrong but we seem to be throwing a whole lot of money at something that because it is this billion dollars is just the beginning stage of this i think they should be looking at corporations that can  and see what they can do to a despot project and then come back to us with something that works really well for this county or even neko and they call would recommend to go and talk to ezri and others like ezri because they provide  know thank you for that so we have consensus we visit we can come back you know we have this chair i'm willing to cut that in half or something but i'd still like to revisit that a little bit sure if you know i think the it's it is a new grad and that i've been questioning that because they've been providing the awesome job and not having to come to us i think  internally right right right so it is them it is and c and i my thing was are you expanding your scope you know your land mass and area of coverage and they're not mean you know i look at fukui has been dropped down by fifty thousand from previous because i recall at the met in last year you know i know i just felt like they created something new to take away from others who have been existing and providing a great service to create this new i'm in favor of watership protection by all means so if i'm  for a way to juggle the numbers and balances out and that's primarily the reason for my revisit is that i don't want to see any reductions here basically but i understand there's only so much of the round b mountains so for me that's a more critical mass area so i would stay open to this request miss cochran but like i said this is underwater fun so you need to do within the parameters of the water fun recipe you know what you have left to trace if you can make it work ok fink you know and as we all know the west maui that whole area has been ops forty ph forty two lanes twelve eleven i've reduced it by one hundred and seventy seven thousand  proposing numbers you see now more specifics on around three and get a lot more agreements i going to choose not to do safety this morning but i would rather you get some of you that would like to post things and you have time to work on those proposals we sent to the committee and the questions we're going to do round through your c i p we're going to start with c