department here will spend always helpful when you show up for meetings so mollify that i'd like to also introduce the members of the long range of planning staff here we've got pam post jan made in this community also like to thank the community for showing up this is a community plan it's really meant and designed to get community input so mahalo for being here and for your participation  like to thank the members here of the committee for showing up and with that we do have some time constraints where i think we have some people that might have to catch a plane so we'll just get on with the agenda here  the first item on the agenda is approval of the minutes from our last meeting on april thirtieth you all have had the opportunity to review that does anybody have any corrections or additions deletions members if you don't have any of that i'll entertain a motion at this time to accept the minutes as presented that was a motion they fortunate to have a water workshop ham has done a good job of putting together all the mole water purveyors and they're here to give us some insights into the into the water systems and  and if we can get some additional information as we move forward on a long range planning effort so and just to let all the presenters know and you know all of us that are sitting here there's actually thirteen of us on this committee  most of us don't have extensive knowledge in water so yeah we're tasked with having to do the long range plan from all of which includes water so if there are any ideas or if there's any things that you can think of that would be helpful to us this is we're doing this planning process you know your comments would be greatly appreciated well received ok we have pam that can do it introduction to our workshop today's i'm going to turn the micro over to pam and you can take it from here hi good afternoon really glad to see packed members some of you i haven't met so i'm excited to see you today and it's really great to see more people here from the public that would be the whole point i started with the long range division about six and a half months ago i used to be the division chief for the water resources in planning division for the partner water supply so water is near and dear to my heart and i spent twenty eight years as a planner so what i've seen in my experience in mowing and everywhere quite frankly but in the context of the community plan and today is the vital connection between land and water and i think there tends to be generally speaking a disconnect often between land and water that we have what we have to write which is called a water use and development plan and i don't know how many people are familiar with that or heard of that that is part of the white water plan and the white water plan and i'm not time purposely not giving you another powerful intellect at but i'm which by the way a draft is out now and that's looking at sustainable yields that for all the doc rivers for all the islands there's the water protection plan there's also the county water plan and the county water and i'm sorry the state water quality plan so i'm talking to you about this today because right now what maui county is doing my understanding is there's going to be a draft completed this month or next on the maui island water use development plan and then next fiscal year early next year they're going to be starting on the molex water use development plan now for the purposes of today because obviously we're here working on the mobile community plan water is critically important it's very very port and because you a through the community plan and your meetings and your knowledge in your rent but also only are going to be deciding future growth and development when where if how so forth vital part of that very important part of that is water where water what are the existing conditions and water water future into the shape and what will be the needs this plan go through twenty thirty five like i said water can be a very technical issue and very particularly in hawaii a very confusing issue so two things i want to say that and many some of you i know in the room are probably more expert than me water allocations are set by the state commission on water resources management and a lot of that is done for not only have logical studies but for example development plans water quality issues are addressed the department of health we have on the island and i'm very very grateful they came i'm not seeing holly ok one more i got to find is the ok th nancy we have the five water systems we're going to speak to today and i'm very very grateful for them to come and talk what they're going to be discussing today is going to be discussing giving you information technical technical information on the water system where it's located how many people they serve the existing conditions and capacity of the water system then of course because of the purposes of how this links up with the plan is going through twenty thirty five future capacity future condition and potentially future issues now in the context of community plan things to think about particularly if it's the county is the link between the community plan and implementation and action would be to see ip so for example if there is infrastructure or new systems or distribution those are things that are addressed in the capital improvement program in the annual budget that's an opportunity for some trying to put this in the context of the community plan i know some of you have very very critical issues very very important issues that might delve down a lot deeper in the con water use development plan so for the today each one of these folks are going to speak to their water system what it is what it's capable of future issues addressing future conditions and what you guys need to do as part of  community plan is to really think about that into context one is on june third and fourth we have two full days june third we're addressing economic development of a look at a full blown full day workshop june for the following saying land use housing and community design so one of the reasons why we purposely put water first is to try to get information out as best we could on water in the existing systems here almost in looking at community development and land use and economic development in your community and i believe it's chapter eight infrastructure we will again touch on water isn't a part of the infrastructure so i'm just trying to explain the context  window we're done today so with that i'd like to introduce our first speaker marty buckner and marty has been a planner for seven years seven years for the department water supply and she is in the water resources and funding division aloha i'm here to give a brief analysis of the system here on molokai to accommodate the community plan process i'm not here to discuss the water  and the water use permitted for us to take a point zero three three million gallons per day but the last twelve months moving average one point one to seven million gallons per day day that was designated in the ninety's it was noted that we could exceed the amount to serve the natural growth of the community and that's why the discrepancy there tank and over ninety percent of those water is used for residential  population of new fifty five and twenty thirty five the project in population nine thousand three hundred four planning tells us maybe are we will need to produce two point seven zero four million gallons the additional need is almost six hundred thousand gallons a day and counting we are short almost three hundred thousand gallons per day so that meeting next week pretty important to figure out where the water's going to come from what infrastructure needs to be put in to accommodate that and then that makes water and that helps in the future because the children today in that contest thinking about water conservation are educating and talking to their parents when they grow up their educating their children so that's a water your watershed protection we started with a twelve thousand five hundred dollars grant and the year two thousand here in the east watershed partnership in red and then the moment places where they worked on indicated in the school year fifteen two hundred ten thousand dollars was given granted and the same amount as for photos for the school year sixteen they could tell you better than i of people to go around with equipment and they listen for only a lot of times leaks are reported and they get fixed but a lot of times they don't get reported they're underground you don't even see the so they can actually use equipment that will hear the leaks we also have a connection that they leave on for twenty four hours and it records the noises given but when there's more than which it looks like there is more than that that isn't being accounted for you have only somewhere or you need to replace a meter that's counting since we got first rights and water and everybody gets the rest are all these kind of questions came up and i think our aussie was blindsided in the relay that they got to do something and some of the proposals came out of the meeting such as we have establish system our water system operates and where we currently are at right now and what our future projections are so a private water system only owned by the association however it is first first fifteen years of operations it was done by employees from the late ninety's to two thousand and ten it was outsourced in two thousand and six we instituted water r chargers to curtail our miss usage of water and poor management of water use and in two thousand and seven we actually had a we were on the verge of complete failure and collapse we were running out of water couldn't provide and meet the needs of our consumers as well as fire protection so back then in two thousand and seven they hired a new contract operators  and started the process we brought and wrote community assistance corporation to help us get on track they provide services to water systems to stay in compliance with state and federal regulation motors are some are simple we have two miles of transmission lines so from where the source is she where we actually do water treatment that's two miles of of  so that's what's in our system and we use planation for water treatment we do not do any other type of treatment we are not required to do that well as our service connection we do take water loss seriously so every meter every connection every service has has a meter and we do  gallons and that's from the commission on water resource on their website if you want to stop which i got so you so you can see that our usage is a drop in the bucket to what is the perceived sustainable yield that is out there our current unaccounted for and nine revenue loss of water is roughly fifteen percent we averaged between eleven and fifteen percent  not counted four or nine revenue lost the water is contributed to faulty meters the number of turns and bends in your pipeline  milligrams per liter for two wells which has under the recommended five hundred milligrams threshold that you want to be at as far as the same level data before that but from two thousand and seven to last year you can see a steady flow of incline so the red mark is our daily moving average and the green above  use permit allotment and the blue is our actual daily pump so say you are a permit based on a moving average might be moving average through a twelve month period and not actually on the amount of so we are in the process or will be starting the process to apply for an increase in allocation which is when they will actually do it if i believe the commission does not just ritually issue so we're we're currently in the process of doing that because the process is very long and arduous we're also currently looking at a newer stores at a higher elevation at a bigger capacity with a bigger storage unit that can actually provide adequate fire protection for our subdivision and of course power supply off the grid for of the sort that does not have an emergency interconnect so if our system fails we're we're down while fire is is our biggest concern as well thirst capacity to process of doing their mission statement for the lot of the themselves and states keep ha understand we share the valuable resource with the greater moral community i'll always show our respect for the really trying to be part of the community and water actually ties all of us together so they're doing it they're actively pursuing you know a lot of shit management on their property  want to be between ten and fifteen per cent i don't know nationally what their average is but i know on the concepts of malaki where the lowest  river bed that is pretty much dried out for one reason or another but that has to start the always and from the day of inception one of the higher quality  well we need to get out of service because it was not cost effective for us to keep on rehabbing at and with the intention of actually looking at a bigger source and a higher elevation to move all of our sources out from the subdivision as far as long term planning you know with the sea level rise climate change how how we pump our water and the quality of our weather water with the with our salinity so when we do our reporting to the commission we take into account what the actual water table was what our tides were at that particular time so it gives us a better indication on what's truly happy is it from us pumping over pumping or under pumping or is it being influenced by outside contribution a portion of the day you can probably get that water so we're because our stores capacity is not as big as other systems in the room really pumped on a demand basis so at a certain level when our tanks lot we have the hundred and ten homes on those a lot the rest are either not users or the have orchards on them yep yep better than anything i could show or slides that i could show you then i'll just go over quickly with the capital improvements and let you know where we have updated this video this video was made in two thousand and seven so on the back of your of your and all there's i'm out of the system with all of the major components of the of the system that we covered in that work that was covered in the video and that's just so you guys also looking at potentially installing a micro hydro plant which would generate about i believe it's about eighty six six kilowatt hours or kilowatt i should say future c improvements and there's an access bridge inside the valley that our personal use that's in poor condition and for their safety we're looking at replacing that and like everyone else in the room that has to come forward so far we are always looking at potentially introducing more water into the system one of the things i was briefly mentioned in the video is that the original system was intentionally the intent of the original system was to cross several valleys and we were never able to do that so we were only able to do the first phase which under not fortunately ends in whitehall so the system itself is actually much infrastructure the system is much larger needs to be for just the white coated connection as far as some updates to the system i think the video said the current water level was in one thousand feet we are actually currently at thirty six and a quarter feet that's probably the height well it's not probably that it is the highest it's ever been since i've been working with the department at sea the current system has a total of two hundred forty homestead account and thirty two non homestead accounts and we service about thirty three hundred acres average lot of average water use is between eight hundred fifty and one hundred twenty one one thousand was i guess the draft was completed and department of agates currently working with i believe it's the attorney general's office and to figure out what the proper procedure is to deal with that comes out or receive we use water approximately breaks out to about eighty percent non homestead twenty percent homestead use and as far as how much all of our property uses the agreement is that they are allowed to meet with a group that that they're obligated to put in a hundred and ten percent of what they use at the mall at the west end fix the current management of the system fully recognizes the two thirds requirement for homestead and one of the things mentioned in the video as well is and in the f a q sheet is that when we do go on restrictions ten twenty thirty percent mandatory restrictions for now the restrictions only apply to the non home state users they are not put on at all on the homes the users the homes and users are allowed to use as much water as they as they need as far as right i think that the reservoir originally started out as a rubber lined reservoir and some at some point it transitions out of rubber went away can you speak to what happened there it was a good idea  it was originally rubber lined it was a futile rubber lining kind of like a real thick bicycle tire but the reservoir is so large that you get that combined with the wind speed lifted the rubber lining off of the embankment and just shredded it so it it was a good idea to try and control things like seepage and whatnot but it it really didn't last long at all what we've done recently within the past few years is to do a concrete lining to replace that as far down as we can goal which is which goes down to about you know if you go from fifty feet in the polished it goes down to about seventeen feet where it is where the water level was we couldn't get lower than that because the water was with there and  couldn't get the concrete down into the water it is possible that will go lower but to be honest with you i don't want to see the water levels go that low so what is the efficiency of the to put things in context where we look at that reservoir or compared to other reservoirs in the state is that a pretty large reservoir or is there a lot of big ones around that size in the state of believe it's the number that sticks in my head if you did the fourth or th have failed was also if you did similar or tiny bit larger and you have any indication of what's actually growing or living in that reserve or i'm not sure where that question's going yeah if the question is is is there recreational fishing in the reservoir the answer's no but it is so large that it's impossible to stop things from getting in there you know my other question was that you mentioned they're doing an assessment or they didn't that's vestment on that reservoir the study the condition of it did you get the results of that  trying to i'm not sure how and how that was presented well i thought they were doing to you you said the because of the quiet disaster they w a reservoir cessation of all of the i think high hazard downs in the state so the the improvement that we are talking about that we have done and we continue to do on this reservoir are all as a result of that but this is a relatively safe read or just very big but as far as i guess structural issues and whatnot there really it was not a huge list we need to do vegetation cleaning and some other issues like that but because it's an offline reservoir you know there's no river that feeds it it's controlled you can turn it off and on if it's relatively safe and i just got one more question when we get to why kolo you have the pumps there and obviously you're in the the rainy season you need to have those pumps running less than them and in the summertime you need to have them running more but can you give us a sense for how much of the time of those pumps actually running dike so it's not part of the offer for system there there's captured water in chambers at elevation so we have those two types of wells that we have the well captured off the surface and pumping it back up into the tunnel so that the diversion to dam pumps run more or less and you can can run it at any given time of the year and that's rain has been coming down we haven't run them for any appreciable amount of time in probably year how long after yes five six twenty one this question you know if you're listed as he's mentioned earlier the average annual water consumption varies between eight hundred fifty and twelve hundred fifty million gallons per year what was the max permitted to excuse me groundwater management area so would be limited strictly to what could be transmitted through the pipes yeah well yeah what the source can provide but you know we try not to tap the from the surface is there in stream monitoring also meter in white tunnel system in addition to that we know the hours that we run the pumps and you know we only run that one two so there should be there is a gauge being installed on those standards for michael again and then since you said that the system was built really in concept and the vision to really support more water than you have in the system now what was the concept that then when they built it where would these other capture point be in what other than and and what was the concept then there are  cost in order to do that it's also you know presented a rather large obstacle so the environmental issues of this just because of the system itself have really kind of made that extremely difficult to pursue that's one of the reasons we're trying to develop that could be that micro i joined it's not huge but you know anything else and it's it if we can do it it's it's energy that there are so why not i've been with the rational for about three years and this presentation we're going to take him and myself and rex come a kind of who's our utilities director and he's been with the ranch for in excess of fifteen years so he has a lot of history and he's best to  basically up in here we got basically two systems that we bring water from the central part of the island out to the west site we actually i think that back we have four different  water towns communities that we serve and it's spread out from central out to the west so we've got to water systems on the west and to to on the central part which is  system our irrigation system we bring water out from the forest area on up here we currently are using fi of the seven intakes that are registered nine million gallons of storage capacity right now we are currently running around twenty twenty five to twenty seven million gallons storage up there we got a four five the first reservoir facilities which then goes on all the way down to raid hill and goes all the way up to the west side this green here is actually the m i a s connection that we have radio area and that was on brian's presentation here so we bring him up to mama law up here treat the water up here  there we really have a total of one thousand customers up in that area there are average daily consumption is about seventy seventy currently hundred eighty six current customers up in monologue without daily consumption of about eighty thousand per day and then it also goes on to  that's an overview of our entire system on whale water comes from and where it goes water it gets blended here goes into this treatment plants here comes the we have three different treatment plants it's this is a grade for surface water treatment plant it's the only one on the island so we usage it's running about forty percent it gets treated it goes into a care well and then it goes down to model reservoir which then it gets bits  we're right in that we've had it down to as low as nine percent in the past but because a treatment plan is soul fragile there's a lot of moving parts here which which  i think that's that's it for me i think on the leo and then clay w yes i'm sorry i'm sorry that that's wrong i'm sorry no no we were i read it wrong we actually keep our system runs about twenty twenty thousand per day yes sorry fifteen to again that's about twenty miles and we don't want to do that and everyone knows we don't we are the land in between we don't own that so we have to deal with other landowners and we don't we don't want to go through that that headache so potentially we have to  application and according to charlie they're waiting for the number two director to get appointed and it'll get remanded and go to our commission so that's where we are on that let's see i think that's that's that's that's that's all i have in terms of legacy issues and the rex address the current conditions and potential growth areas for any questions or comments i just have on what is a total out of just the bills is in excess of three hundred thousand dollars a year so we want to get that done too and since we're p c regulated you know we can pass those savings onto it to our customers broken down and there's the allocation for for the golf course and for and for the hotel so my answer is yes as long as we dramatically increase it but west once we do that when we opened the hotel we'll have a water budget w know that we look at the sources but we're confident that when we do open a cool core area we can work within the budget and maybe even use less and hopefully with with the users just visit the users and more kind of users you know we can fifty miles of distribution lines in my system i'm just saying line where it says that clue i wanted to look like to our two wells so you look at the debt that these wells are thousand and five feet and eleven hundred feet so that's how far we have to pull water out of re the grid so that gives you an idea of how much power it takes because of the distance that the water is being pulled out of the ground ergo huge electricity bills imagine being relieved that she only got a thirty five thousand dollar bill one month this got hot because it was a fifty five thousand and in the past the last five years we had a major line break the bills they were running the pumps twenty four seven the bills  grand a month so the number one challenge faced by the d h l water system was to bring electricity costs under control and i'll explain later how we do it in the process that we're going to be doing that so it gives you an idea of what a company passably is you know how much gallons per minute we can serve we primarily run them from nine thirty at night to six in the morning which is not peak hours which still gives us a thirty five or forty thousand dollar bill a month imagine then we boost it boost it from that location from a hundred thousand gallon tank up into a one million tank after it's chlorinated and then from that one million yellin tank it's distributed is distributed into our system primarily to the holy who too big to fight three point five million gallon tanks and then it flows down to colombo in the two hundred thousand young gallons a day with an overall reservation of two point nine zero five million gallons a day our average daily demand is about four hundred fifty thousand so the two three hundred sixty seven thousand is inadequate to address the current needs of the homestead community and in our overall reservation two point nine sol we asked to increase that daily amount we're still in a process of trying to work with c were to increase our allocation for so for those homesteaders who wanted to subdivide their ag the reason why we can't is we tap until c we're asked to raise this amount otherwise we would be would be in violation of  thirty five so we were already working on what that twenty year plan is going to be and it can't be with equipment that was around when my great grandparents are and so we are in the process now working with the u system will run this is the pumps once they're started the estimates now for the system with about four million the cost and they're still developing at i'm not sure it's going to be p v and when we  systematically when we replace hydrants to replace valves it's the waiting to the break and go i ok we go to please him we hadn't had our tank clean in over twenty years thank goodness the cleaning went well to regulate that pressure so it can go back into the system without blowing people want to either and all that i mentioned we are we're going to build a new two hundred thousand gallon tank we're going to upgrade our chlorination severe weather app so we've got to be able to have complete access year round under any conditions to our to our tax home all those roads are not paved so if you have heavy moister the roads are money you can't access on a tank or a pump that's a serious problem and so we're having those roads and in the yard and paid and finally we need to get n pressure pictures from last summer when i forget the name of the company they came there from montana and they came for what the guy's doing is he's praying so they can clean the tank while it's still on line you don't have to show before you to show them off below here is a his helmet is a camera so you can see the interior of a tank and then they give you a video report and a written report so you can you can inspect the integrity of the inside of the tank you know you can see what the ceilings look like and see what the support columns look like to make sure you don't have an exposed metal or anything and make sure jimmy hoffa's not in there i mean it was i mean it was pretty cool and  i guess benefit from the lottery structure that the child and that's an issue a breakdown of all of our our counts five hundred eighty seven the different rates we basically follow in terms of categories we follow the county system we just have a different ra that that our commission set every ten years and we're actually in the process now of collecting data so that we can set the new rate for the next the next decade capacity isn't the bets are off original cost extremely high for a system that has five hundred eighty seven customers and the main reason is is our electrical costs and i'm sure all of the other off water provided in the room know exactly what i'm talking about and so that's why we've targeted you know the alternative energy system as our number one priority and part of reason for that not just because we want to be responsive because we're a trough and we're supposed to be acting in the best interest of our beneficiaries when we use their money the question that was posed in preparing this whether the power was to some would be capable of meeting the needs of current and future expected population that's kind of a tricky question because you know my understanding and i've only been it pretty impossible for me to stand here and tell you yes or no i can just tell you that we intend to be to use the data that is provided to us in a responsible fashion in terms of our should be yes that given our allocation we should be able to provide for the needs of our homes the community community  yes i mean if they're saying that you know if at this point a more optimal amount would be four hundred seventy five dollars not three hundred sixty seven i don't know or i would say no because and if we are i'm not aware of  has heavily subsidized the system so the question becomes for those who are not for those beneficiaries were not on the system are they entitled to the same treatment and under the set of the option of fairness the answer is yes but that's  again that's a determination for the commission to make ok also you have i guess you're exceeding your allotted capacity for your existing permit and then you apply for a new permit and you're still in the can you go through what's happening with that process and how long it's been and what the problems might be only from the sketches of it with my counterpart in planning because colonial manual them were the ones that were part of that request so all i know is that it's still pending like so many other requests before the before say were and so when we had a public scoping meeting i think a month ago or so we're given the opportunity to additional lot of and more correction opposed to requests and then it just went nowhere he just stayed there but you know to me i think one thing that needs to be clarified is that if you've got a two point nine reservation you should be able to access it especially if you have first rates  e so we got a problem there model all right thank you so i'd like to thank all the press presenters but before you go i think they're all still here if there's any members of the c pack that want to ask any last so that's a that's a major problem especially if you consider kilometers of first homestead area it's the mother shi guys had presented from d t h out for existing as well as future homes that development and so what i'm really concerned at hearing from you again with these numbers is is from that that plan let say that was presented and what the allocation is within those parameters but also discussing future planning of popular homestead plans understanding really good future allocation of water because if we have source development concerns we need to prioritize those based on future developments we know that one home is going to do so with all that information we could for example additional development but that will require water source development in order to do that most of the proposed areas for increased residential home will require additional water source development so therefore yeah that does need to become a priority and it does need to be that ordination with the other users of water on the island so ohio's working working on that will be working on that but right now we can't say what the timetable is it's a twenty year  thank you to any other further questions all right go ahead on this one i guess when we're doing the you know when the water cooled was first coming on we're trying to figure out what to use for coin holes using all different scenarios and the high end the other further comment i'd like to thank all the press presenters for taking the time energy and effort to be here and before we break i'd like to give the if there's anybody from the public that would like to give us the pac testimony and give you an opportunity at this time to do that is there anybody that would like to provide testimony all right see none it's a good time to take a break here so we're going to take a break for about twenty minutes or so and then we're