malorie we can't allow that to happen it's not comfortable for us i saw that i could not believe it was couldn't believe what i was looking at and that's my testimony thank you thank you something that was just said yesterday and probably just talk at this point but if it's something that you could follow up on because that's a pretty huge and kind of scary thank you the last call for public testimony again we will open up after various items on the agenda i'm going to close public testimony at this time and move on to item c which is approval of the august seventeenth two thousand and sixteen meeting minutes commissioners discussion i am sure i move the minutes of the aug seventeenth two thousand and sixteen meeting the approved ok so it's been moved by second by stu to approve the august seventeenth two thousand and sixteen meeting minutes and a discussion commissioners nine all in favor of approving the minutes  a bed and breakfast homes and short term rental homes report good evening everyone i'm gina flambe or staff planner i recognize a couple of you from two years ago when i was here to go over the amendments to the short term rental home ordinance as clayton just  stated the the ordinance was passed in two thousand and twelve i came to you in twenty eleven this is the original ordinance to allow short term rentals where an owner doesn't live on the property that in brackets where you live on the property were allowed i think in two thousand and eight  so we had a lot of a there was a two year lookback clause in that original deal the department looked at the bill proposed some changes came back to you in two thousand and fourteen with those changes you gave us some great suggestions and then it went to the county council where it was discussed what i think was eleven different hearings that we had over it so i'm going to review these changes the council felt like they got as far as they could and in about the year that they went maybe year and have discussing all the budget was coming up they wanted to wrap up their work with they had done what hadn't been done yet was looking at the enforcement section of the code and then there was also the next item that we're going to go to is a whole separate new requirement that came up at the end of that discussion those two things were them bundled into different bills that we're going to talk about today it's nice because it gives enforcement its own spotlight the rest of the items were passed by council so i thought to be useful for me first to unless you already know but and to bring you up to speed on what happened with all those amendments ok so council allowed properties that have a condominium property regime and i don't know that l you have any properties like that it's a state process that allows a property to be divided into different ownership it's still the same density so because a number of these properties that were coming in for short term model home permits were condominium have condominium property regimes on them which would mean they're divided into two sometimes three separate parcels with different owners because they were coming in for permits council wanted to let each individual owner of that c p r unit ha their own permits we were requiring before the way we were reading the law it was an entire team had two different owners they had to be on the same permit so that was one of the things counsel did it did cause a little bit of confusion for us in some of the amendments that we're going to talk about today relate to that as a cleaning up their language another thing that council did is they added a minimum ownership interest for short term model homes and after some discussion they came to fifty percent so what that means  the applicant applying for the permit or the number of applicants combined together has to own fifty percent of the property we've had a couple cases where people come in with maybe a one percent ownership interest and the council doesn't want to see that another thing we did is we just kind of restructure the bill so that all the criteria was in one place sometimes when you do bills and you add things that get added into different sections so we just kind of cleaned up the bill there's a little bit of that in this new one we're going to go through again  council reduced now short term reynolds have a cap for each area lanai does not have a cap but on the island of maui the different community plan areas west maui the north shore on a mock a while cool each area has their own cap so council reduced tanya from forty eight down to thirty they left everybody else the same molex kyle and i they also left with having no gas do you have any comments about that you can give that to me well ok decided they like having no cath i just went to them a couple weeks ago the new bill at the end of it the discussion council member bicycle came up with a sort of the kitchen form that new people applying for a paramount permit will have to fill out it's in the application and the certification form people have the sta there that they haven't been operating and if they do own an interest in another one they need to put that on the form and then a couple other things council also granted a six month amnesty for anybody that was operating illegally  as part of a bill that was passed in two thousand and twelve there was a provision banning any people that were caught advertising or operating through e mail exchanges and other ways from being able to apply for a permit there's a lot of discussion about should we just get rid of it altogether  or should we keep it in the compromise was a six month on the six or so allow people so this new certification form has some of the amnesty language in it one other change and we talked a lot about the signs here they are big they do stamp for a really long period of time chemical did agree with the department that it would be ok to have the sign only come up for forty five days they didn't take your recommendation to  they went to a public hearing before you folks they had to put in notice in the newspaper three weeks in a row was about twelve hundred dollars that he came at the end of the process that was something they they took out we recommended that they take that out the department still publishes a notice in the newspaper and there is still of the agendas are still closed and everybody within five hundred feet still gets mailed another some of that so the only thing that was gotten rid of was that excerpts not for the three newspaper notices  another big policy change was that before if there was one permit at the property with a short term rental home permit within five hundred feet that second one came to you for a public hearing council change that to the third one  just means the first two can go through administratively a little bit easier we looked at having the fourth of the family and councils of felt the most comfortable with the third they really want your oversight on where these are located and they recognize that in a lot of cases you're going to have a group together in certain areas with you folks for sure in the nice cities and that's where most of they are so they still want to see you looking at it when there's theirs when there's a third one comes in now or the fourth  and they're ok with having them be approved they recognize that but they they see a lot of value in your individual as you do with those they added another trigger to come to you folks for review and that is if an applicant owns an interest in another short term rental we had a case you know sometimes you don't know your loopholes so you start implementing the law so we had a case where somebody had applied under their own name and then they open to trust with relatives and then applied in that sense we ended up with three so we thought you know there will be cases where there's husband wife or family members and if you folks are comfortable with that we're fine with that we just would be a good idea to have you take a closer look at some of these types when there's multiple ownership and it doesn't say that they are not allowed to do it they just one of the little bit more review you know your community  best the other changes they made was application this is a real minute detail unless you're in europe permit holder permit renewal applications used to always do require that they came in ninety days prior to the expiration date when our attorney took a closer look at the bill they said bill you know required to come in ninety days before the expiration date that ninety days really is the expiration date you can't really do that without ok so what do we do so some language was written that allows people to apply with in ninety days you can still apply the day before your permit expires and your fine so that language was passed one of the things we're going to talk about is than once as has passed we have applicants come to us saying we want to come in more than ninety days of taking bookings for five months from now so one of the proposals of the department's adjusting is taking that ninety out to one hundred eighty days jeana excuse me before you turn that page  the other thing the bill did that was passed was that we created specific criteria for when we choose not to renew someone's permanent and these criteria are the same criteria used when we were actually revoke and told somebody permit we did have a little bit of experience with us it gave us a more legal i went taking a look at the law so we we added some more language and then we made a whole separate section so we're not renewing it it's been they're coming for renewal we decide due to problems we use these criteria and then if we have problems with a perm is going on we use the same criteria we're going to revoke it just kind of helps us that there's an appeal or it helps the applicants understand really clearly what's being expected of them and there was a two year wait period that's added at the permit is not renewed so that property owner was and have to wait two years before reapplying we did have at least two cases that i know of where the permit was not renewed and then the person just reapplied three days later so again you don't really know your loopholes until you implemented already told about the six month amnesty period now so if you know anybody that that does want to come in it runs to the end of this year so anybody that may have been advertising wasn't aware they need a permit or you know for some reason had to come in they do have an opportunity to come in now this is for short term rental home that ban currently doesn't apply to bed and breakfasts the people that live on the property and so those those are kind of the basic changes in the new bill and that's what we're working with for now this first one we're going to do is we're going to take a look at the enforcement procedures  the purpose of this bill that you have is to establish mandatory for timeframes for enforcement actions and update the enforcement procedures for bed and breakfasts and at the same time the department is using th as a way to clarify some of the amendments that were just recently made and just to give you a little bit of background when the short term rental home bill passed in two thousand and twelve there were a group of operators on the north shore that were working pretty closely with government they had permits they wanted to see a regulated market and part of that regulated market isn't force meant so they feel like the permitted people can't compete with lower prices they don't pay their taxes they wanted to see everybody play by the same rules so they weren't seeing the in forth with that they wanted right after a pass they kept meeting with the mayor and different people in the county and it really wasn't for about three years until the warnings from may twenty fifteen to may twenty six teen and almost ninety notices of violation were issued for vacation rentals it really is the bulk of what we're doing this group just wants to make sure that enforcement continues in the future if there's a change of administration if anything changes they just want it codified in the law so we have a couple ways that we could go about it you know there's a lot of different amendments here that they're in i put them into a table in your pack at the kind of small i did print out the table big or we can go through the table if you want to do that or i can just take comments from you would go through the bill does anybody have a preference you want to yes every property has a site inspection by a planner also as part of the application we require that all houses have building permits or be built to code so it's probably the toughest requirement maui county doesn't require  so i just wondering why messy does anybody look at the property before the issue to permits or is it just a no no they come out and look at the requirement that you're talking about for the landscaping is actually a department of public works requirement knows the current planners probably aren't as familiar with all of the those types of procedures it's really when the building inspector comes up with a property that they should notice that this was a the site distances if there's problems you can always put a request  rrect me if i'm wrong was we had talked about when you have to notify everyone in five hundred foot radius and the issues that would bring up here because you would be notifying so many people and i think our recommendation was to have just no to find your neighbors on the side and then in the back in the front so i'm assuming they didn't take that recommend in a few of the meetings that he's not on that committee but we did discuss it as we went through through it and i think their main thing was they just want all three islands to be of which is weird because all three i would be the proposed amendment adds a fifty percent ownership interest for bed and breakfast we are recommending it actually it's the same thing as a certain amount of home if you feel differently you can let me know otherwise when you vote at the end what you're voting on is all of the departments recommendations and also if you have any general comments you want me to include but i'm not does anybody have any comments about requiring the applicants that come in for a bed and breakfast have an so the core of the bill the enforcement part what it does is and we're going to go through that it's the same for bed and breakfast the short term and all home so i'm going to go through the b and b section because that's first but it's also applies to short term mental homes and this is what that group of north shore operators wrote the first thing that they did is that for complaints received by the department that have everything that that in that inspector needs in it it's got the address it's got the link to the advertising they want to see that that notice get out within a certain amount of time within thirty days of the receipt for requests for service they want to see our department how about that notice of warning the department is just a little bit concerned about  shall and a requirement for thirty days i don't know if you had a couple years ago we had a somebody had a sign violation just a business and then it's kind of mushrooms into everybody turning each other in and it's kind of overwhelmed our fourth division for a couple months that's all they really focus on especially dealing with front street so they're just worried if they have something like that come up they may not meet those thirty days so they're just the department recommending a may instead of a shell so i don't know if you  does this be mandated or made does it allow discretion so in this case the department is recommending may that the bill says shall i think we can live with shall that would there may be is way far in most cases is to too loose a boundary because it's a subjective thing yes yes question so why don't i read all five of these and then you guys can ok so what we're talking about now is on page six of this table ok so item number one on this the alleged violator of the property owner shall be notified that all advertising without a permit shall be terminated within seven days after issuance of a notice of warning the notice of warning so specify the the such advertising by the deadline shall result in issuance of a notice of violation in order to pay civil fine in the amount of the thousand dollars a day as long as the advertising continues this is all new language they public and it has come into the art department with everything in it it's got the correct address and it's got the right links that we have to get that out within thirty days for a number three they're giving us sixty days after the note  notice of violations in order to including in order to pay fees shall be sent to the violator and the property owner within sixty days of this deadline if the advertising without the valid permit number continues beyond that deadline unless the violator can show that they're the working to get that off the number for a repeat violation for advertising without a permit shall result in a notice a violation without court without doing it and no w the notice of warning which is what we do now anyway just as a practice five it has a caviar saying the department failure to serve that notice of warning or violation with any time limit shall not invalidate that notice of warning or violation so if we do get to the something else comes up or it's not done right away takes more effort than we thought it does for the gamma department really what we're saying is may is better than shall in that we really don't see a need for number three and four but i'm really here to collect your do again you're talking about across administrations how that everybody's doing the same thing it doesn't matter who's in charge so that's probably not going to happen if it's a many so you're saying shall create conformity or  do you want to just do a vote on this particular one is a little bit easier but the council for me to say to right now the way we're presenting it to you includes the department's recommendation of men so if you don't like them a you submitted to council member white from the north shore operators and went to council services but what ended up coming out is that the five year bayern for people that have operated illegally is then applied to bed and breakfast homes so th operator lives on the property when what is it now with the time frame now there is no ban for bed and breakfast but you do if you get your notice of warning and hopefully you and so permit or stop operating short term and rent long just for purposes of discussion it seems like there should be something i don't know if it's five years something from bad marxist at well as well i mean  and so what was the rationale before to have that five year bad and for a short term rental but not that in practice it's the short term yeah it's interesting how legislation passes the short term on a home came after the bed and breakfast there was a community member in a meadow it was that wrote the language and it was inserted into the bill there's a lot of discussion that ended up in the bill at the time of council it was a deterrent for people that's what it was they wanted a punishment the thinking at the time and still now is that if you're charging you know two hundred fifty five hundred dollars a day that  easily make that up so people that have the feeling with people who are going to operate because it's so lucrative as long as they possibly could so they wanted to try to find a way to motivate people to come in before they start operating  the way it's set up now it only leads to more ambiguity i think that the bed and breakfast should be treated the same way as a short term and so it would bring i think more semblance of these are the rules and you should abide by them and it's done doing it the other way or changing one for three years one for five years people would use that as a reason origin excuse so let's get rid of the premie i understand the department's rationale however just like how we're talking about how they're seen in one place has signs they all should have signs i think it should be the same here for bed and breakfast so we all and ok who's in favor of keeping that five year bad in place for bed and breakfast just as it is for short term sorry and left my training but because right now with the short term rentals there's a bad and there isn't with bed and breakfast so they could just say well i'm not going to short term incentive i'm just gonna go to bed and breakfast and then you know we're not addressing issues right we're not making a recommendation but we want to make sure constance gus was with you folks and now we're under the short term rental home section page nine of this chart there's been a lot of discussion about permit transfer ability special make it to the next one where there's a five year requirement for owning a property i just wanted to get a sense of how you folks feel about having a permit transferred right now it's only to the current owner of a property so when the property is sold the permit goes away but there's been talk about making it transferable so that serves no consequences for just the flip side is the senate does add some value to the property and that has unintended consequences as well but i wanted to know what you think about it so assuming that the new owner wanted it they would just have it with they wouldn't have to like register with you or do anything at all well how this how it's written in this particular case again were i just want to get a general feeling of how you feel about it but the way it was written up it was it says specifically upon the sale of the property provided the new owner submitted the information required by these are fabrications and provided that the transfer is approved by the same authority that approved the original permit ok so i'm reading this rationale  what it does is the value of the permits the business then gets added on to the value of the house so that's that's kind of the downside and we've tried if anybody can think of a way that doesn't do that's ok that's really the gist of this bill i'm saying if there's anything else counsel would like us at the end of the year to submit information this is on page seventeen they want to know what all the notice of warning all the notice of violation and all the appeals and the outcome of all the appeals and we told them we're just fine with giving you all that information so they may review this will i guess that they get some of the answer actually real property tax get that coun doesn't get it but counsel would also like to get this information so that's that's the first order of business that we have to have in the general comments about short term rentals and the indies and they just went through your community plan process there's little bit of language in there is there anything you want to convey to the killed before you goes where i remain no they pretty much deny it every recommended but i would still like to make that comment back to them again if possible that again you know mali and then i am all acquired lead different places and i understand one scene consistencies however i just don't see how that would work with three different places so again the recommendations that we made the last time with the comments we made about just notifying your adjacent neighbors not five hundred feet radius and then the smaller sign so i take that back they did this into our recommendation about the newspaper ads about that so that's good but if that can just be mentioned again and in actuality they already made some exceptions that permit ren you know that's a really good question because there are a lot of those little signs going up on the charland i mean i walk every morning and i see frequently see new ones didn't we have this conversation these guys remember i mean things eighty eight for west maui eighty eight for probably a hike two hundred for south maui on a was forty eight now they're thirty that's just for short term rental or still a forty eight for bed and breakfast i think it's were two thousand and six a study was done by a clue why an institute and they were a public policy group they looked at the numbers at that time how many there were and i think there were eight hundred so the director at the time just just cut it in half and then how they divvy them up between the community planners i'm not exactly i don't think there's any scientific method to it but the four hundred came from that it was actually council member mike molina that said during after everything  and that was a compromise that everybody like there is a provision in the law that does say that if you you know i totally understand the need for them given the prices at the hotel having said that however it really concerns me about taking those places to the housing market are never allowed and we're going to talk about it's going to hit on that directly yeah i think there should be a how we come up with the number i have no idea how we would do that are you very aware of how many short term rentals we have now that are either permitted or in the process i guess i'll pose this to the commissioners before we start looking and say anything else is who is in the who agrees that there should be a cap and raise your hand o k those who don't agree raise your hand either i don't know i just feel might be kind of premature right now i don't know i just think since this is all kind of you know i  term rent vote which would be pretty alarming right how would what would have to happen if at that that point would come to say hey well we really need a cap here this is getting out of control what is the process for that you go to your coastal member or another council member and introduce some legislation and they'd be really simple language but it would then go through all the commission or directors only yours because it only applies to the night and then to the county coun you could do a percentage of that i had you should know enough rental properties here for dishrags it isn't right i mean like beverly said that that's and fearing that they all become a short term rental and not all but a lot becomes short term rental which that takes that away from residents who are looking for  long term rentals we come up with that i mean that's a hard thing i mean it's what number do you use i guess a number can be set gina and that point you do have some criteria as well as the department does that you do look at the number of permitted so yeah and then it's hard to and we don't have kind of the figures like how many homes we have on on the i gave was with figures on how many houses it was that's right that's right we had that map is this something that would you know what you might want to do is recommend that you know five percent of your sing the number of your single family homes of something like that but or you could just let me tell council that you feel like there should be a can put you just didn't know how to come up with a number and if you wanted to work with your council member that's what her notice yeah and that would make sense as i wouldn't want as also to just rush into having up with a number and then also being able to have public and community input if they knew that this was on the agenda and this is being discussed i feel like there's probably a lot of residents that would like to give and put their commissions i mean are you guys ok with with gina providing the comment that we want a cap but at this time cannot come up with a number and but will they come back to us not in the fischel capacity  when it's at the cold so they will have the ability to open up the bill again but i'm thinking i mean this wasn't technically list specifically on her agenda where if it was we might have had way more people here in the audience wanting to really key in there  yeah you know i had to open up public testimony at this time if that's ok with you gina second i stop you for a little bit just to get employed here going and really wanting to please provide input on anything that was discussed but specifically your thoughts on having a cap on short term rentals and number suggestions anyone wishing to provide public testimony please in size hunters come in all the time they get businessmen come here a that do but yeah yeah anyone out so wishing to provide public testimony for this item ok i'm going to close public testimony and talk with the issue of  again we're all in a it was all of us except for you agreed that there needs to be a cap for short term rentals and now it's really coming up with a number it sounds like if we moved on and gina just brought our comments back that we want to cap it on have a number this would would not come back to us in this compact to be there for it would be someone taking on this responsibly with our coun consummation and hoping that this would be discussed so it sounds like this actually is the best venue so that you know i can appropriately bring that back manager can we not so far if we wanted to to get a number of houses and to think about it i'm thinking we still have time on this doing on jena actually no code to work the fact that the end of the year they have two members that want to be able to discuss this so for their terms and but we could do it at the were to give a specific number today you would still need to follow up with the council because in the practical approach really that happens so you still have that avenue with to do it a bill they may take up i'm not sure which bill they're going to pick up first but it does give you a couple months to think of a number and reach out to your council members and hunted didn't say thirty or to say they did recommend reduced  but it really got picked up at the end just by a council member coklat and she was the one that has to prove if you're saying that we cannot do you for what if we  is there a way that we could still give recommendations for this tonight saying that we have a cap and we'll be working on it and discuss it at the next meeting with some additional information i don't know if we can do not i think it would be helpful to have that discussion whether you're here or not geno with this in front of guys if this is something that is going to go back to the council members obviously  election year is a term ends on january second essentially the council communities probably will start shutting down around the end of november thirty or forty or is not excuse me we're thinking that's a little bit smaller so yeah i hear what you're saying you have a number and if obviously if there's a need or a want for it to go more that's a possibility but if not we know that this is pretty much it thirty and thirty seems like a fair number again we had what six in one year i think ok so i'm just going to put  there so we can move along and do how many agree again for the cap and to have it at thirty raise your hand oppose so majority ok so the next step is you have like any bill that comes before you you have the following options you can go ahead and recommend approval of the bill with without any other amendments you could recommend approval of the proposed bill with the amendments with the department  recommending minus those two other changes that you talked about you can recommend denial of the bill or you can vote to defer action or to gather additional information i mean you could it would just slow things down so we would go with one of these options and again you would bring back our comments there whatever option we we choose i'm going to guess number two where you would recommend approval of the proposed bill with the amendments with the two exceptions that you told me you'd like the shell versus the men and you but like to see the ban applied to b and b is for consistency purposes and where does the cap come in that's an additional comment like that that you're also so you are in addition to the bill you have specific amendments which would be like for notification purposes you would like to notify adjacent neighbors in a directly across the street like a smaller notification sign approval of the resolution with the amendments and stated except for our two exceptions and with a comment we it's not sufficient  comments all in favor raise your hand gray thank you thank you gina ok so we're going to move along here and go on to number two mr williams spent money in the rectory transmitting council resolution number sixteen i would make a fifteen short term rentals actually this came up after the committee referred it to the full council it's really rare that you see something added that late this is how much discussion was going on with the council of research or runnels so it was introduced during the first reading everybody came up at the second reading anyway the but it is that it does deserve this full consideration on its own and not just thrown in at the end of the meeting and that council does that the purpose of this these amendments from the county council to require that short term rental home permit applications on a property for at least five years prior to applying for a permit with three exceptions those exceptions are number one it would provide a grace period of six months after the bill's with up so anybody in the process could finish the process secondly the second exemption would be for property owners but the structure of the building itself and that would be talked about a council whether the building of the property but for right now it's the building is high enough and worth enough to take it out of the long term residential housing market after discussion council came up with the building value of a million dollars but then put it out of the residential market so any residential structure as is appraised by the real property tax evasion of the money county with a value of less than a million dollars i mean over a million dollars would be eligible to get a short term rental home permit prior to the five years the third exemption allows properties previously used for short term rental homes with a permit to be eligible again if the owner applies within three years of purchasing the property and just to give you some background on this this came from council member carol out in honda on us had a number of homes sold that were in long term run toll that went to to short term small community big impacts so this is where this came from so he stated that the purpose of the measure is to discourage investors from speculating with long term rental properties by buying them and then immediately converting them into short term runnels he stated that we have a limited land area for housing and it's difficult for residents to obtain they should be allowed a crack at it before we allow short term rattles there was recognition that hawaii residents are low wages but have very high property values and it makes it very difficult for current residents to buy property and that increases the demand for rental housing there was also a lot of talk about the demand for housing by offshore buyers due to rallies low tax rate and there was talk about how high a and some of those other west coast counties are and it makes it attractive to them and also the state of the economy and how buying houses now is another investment option just like a stock be to and that also increases the demand for these investment properties now on the flip side council member buys that did talk about tourism is a significant part of the economy and that she was concerned about the unintended consequences of putting this five year requirement on a and also that the effect of short term metals is minimal because many of these homes are high and already so i did do a big so again i'm here to get your comments on again those analysis at the end so what you would be voting on is that department is ok with so the department was ok with the five year wait period we're ok with the grace period we're not sure about the million dollars but we know council is going to talk about that so we'll be there during that discussion and we thought maybe it should be just a little bit higher we notice when we did the analysis of all the rental properties and it was really interesting most of them are under a million dollars the buildings out you you get a couple that are one point two one point three and then you jump right to three four six million i was surprised when i did this there's not a whole lot in the million range you're either under or you're over so councils can pick that number we're comfortable with that the only thing that we were not comfortable with was the permit transferability and because we're worried that it's going to have it's going to increase the value of those houses that have a permit and in doing so it's going to increase drive up the prices of neighboring houses and it's not going to do that so much through the tax structure because they have different tax classifications so their taxes go up but what will happen is when you go to sell at the appraisal then the the market appraisal will take into the value that houses sold for more money and then it that's how it drives up prices and it kind of creates a perpetual cycle of rising home values so we're we're not recommending we're recommending the bill with the exception of the transfer so based on the analysis that's in the report we support the proposed bill with the provision that they take another look at the valuation and also without the transferability exceptions we recognize that this bill really speaks to public policy and competing policies you're looking at economic policies versus housing policies and they really are pitted against each other so we're trying to find a fine line and so is counsel in between it  so we feel like this bill does try to walk a fine line it doesn't restrict the total number of permits that can be issued for short term rental use instead it restricts the type of home that may be used so when the permit cats have been reached they will be held by owners who have a long term investment in maui because they had to wait the five years war and they will also be held by high end homes that will provide a higher economic value in terms of tax assessments and local employment opportunities and continue to attract dobro hiring and visitor so again you have the same choice where you can recommend approval of the bill just as it is you could recommend approval with the men men you can recommend denial i think mo time finding places for people and they want to see more tourism dollars come in again probably a way they had no cap and no cap on the short term rental yes so they saw the restriction is hurting their their what is the definition of short term not bed and breakfast short term means the owner doesn't live on the property but it can be one night or thirty days or it's under one hundred eighty days so it can be anywhere between one night to  n regarding the value amount you're saying a million or above a million or the council's going to business council is the one that came up with the million dollar building value i think we're going to have a lot of discussion on the floor about what's the appropriate number for that so if you have any comments if you like the five year wait if you like the idea of having the higher homes excluded if you have any comments about where to find that number or if you like a million for the building you know think the rationale behind this is good and it makes sense you know for our community as well being a small community it's just like qana where it would like gina said kind of first crack to instead of right away doing short term rentals first crack to residents who want to have housing and then excluding these high end housing that the majority of our residents couldn't afford to rent anyways  again i mean yeah that's right i guess accounts so to addresses that number amount so five years appeals to me yes it makes it makes sense the rationale is that s moved who recommend approval so there's two options here to recommend approval of the proposed bill to the mali county council or recommend approval of the proposed bill with these amendments to the molly county council again with when and gina when it says with these amendments those are the three amendments that you went over correct yeah they're all in the bill the only maybe you can just tell me what you like and what you don't like and like and so do you like the overall current to do like the idea of a six month grace period do you like the idea of the high end homes being excluded from this and are you ok with the transfer ability for these that's when the third exception which allows properties previously used for a short term rental home with a permit to be eligible for a permit again if the owner applies within three years of purchasing the property hi good afternoon madam chair and commissioners my name is carolyn cortez and i am the supervising planner of sony and administration and enforcement division our division is charged with  flood hazard ordinance now the national flood insurance program provides flood insurance for our properties that are in the flood zone and it also provides federal assistance in times of national declarations of disaster if our community was not to participate in the national flood insurance program then the flood insurance and then the federal assistance would not be available to us so i just wanted to make you aware of that so the changes and amendments that are being proposed are really not anything drastic they're more housekeeping we had an ordinance change in two thousand and nine and some lead zones were inadvertently left out at that time that we're correcting that we are also correcting severability clause we're adding it in one thousand nine hundred sixty two we have it in mali county code but in a different title but fema wanted us to put it specifically in the flood hazard ordinance another thing is that they wanted the director of the department of mining to be maimed as the person responsible for the national flood insurance program whereas that was sort of  being they wanted it to be actually stated so they added that also into the ordinance so what i provided for you is the change and the rationale for each of the changes in the ordinance the flood hazard ordinance and i'm available if you have any questions on any of them in mi can i ask you a question please yes sorry i will add mitt i briefly glance through this if there was a pop quiz i couldn't tell you what it contained could i ask you if there was anything specific that we hear online i e should be concerned about for that might apply to specifically a lot of it is kind of like housekeeping mean we're updating like our office address we're updating the uniform and international residential code flood insurance and federal assistance you know this is obviously significant because we obviously want to see that happen yes that's correct we change some definitions to be right consistent with you my definition i mean some cases they didn't want us to quote a specific insurance rates because insurance rates change we had actually put in twenty five dollars or so we actually put that in the beginning want us to do that also there were some services that beamer had offered before but they no longer operates he wanted us to take that out and when i open up public testimony so if there's anyone that would like to provide comment last resident there's a there's a few things when it comes to flood hazard areas and i think most of us here are and knew that the water got extremely the rains that we had recently got extremely close to a highway if it would have gone over and we probably wouldn't have a way to get to the airport or to the harbor law nicety has a drainage plan that was my my my petty bitch about the three thema containers down at the airport the weeds are taller than that something so they need somebody needs to go down there and put them on a slab and maintain those containers because when we see but there are areas near the coast right by the harbor that area i believe is in the zone so a lot of the coastal areas are in the that but it would be very helpful for people who live down there to know if any of us are in flood zones and is that information available somehow yes that information is available you can call our office at the department of planning but there is also a website fema has both a website and i can give you that information or we also have a better website with that the state o does the department of land and natural resources and what's helpful about that site and what's different about that site as compared to beam is that it has property lines on that the female website and for flood insurance rate maps do not have parcel lines on it so you have to look at the imagery and kind of guess where your property is so the most recent change we had so i'm assuming you're recommending that we yes i'm sorry so you have the same options as what do you mention you can number one recommend approval of the proposed bill to the maui county coun recommend approval of the proposed bill with amendments if you have any amendments to propose number three recommend denial of the proposed bill to the monterey county council and number four vote to defer action on the proposed bill in order to gather specific additional information i'd like to recommend approval of the proposed bill through the maui county council whence the revision that you mentioned of the changes by bev to recommend approval of the perp hose bill to the maui county council and in discussion commissioner all in favor of the motion preserve your hand all go ahead and get started since everyone's back in the room i want to i am which is communications starting off with the first i am august sixteenth two thousand and sixteen semiannual with this is the same report we've been basically giving you for the last about three years now the report originally was all numbers and it was difficult for me to understand all the numbers so we put it into a graph form so that you can see the water usage and changed all the gallons per day which provides a consistency as to what it is so take any questions that you have or they haven't otherwise look lent other mentally possible water usage the first period of twenty sixteen was kind of significantly higher just and anything that you know about that might a cause that  particular is a multifamily or was higher i don't know of any leaks which would be one reason that you would have significant higher but i don't know of any testimony so if there is anyone in the audience that would like to ask any questions or provide any comments anyone ok close thank you ben all right i spoke about briefly at our last meeting to get this on the agenda again i've been in contact with the state and budget office probably for about the past three having monthly meetings and so he had questions as to why this was happening who was cancelling the meeting and i just want to make it very clear to the commission that the complaint and investigation is against us as a limited planning commission not against the planning department so i had i'm in our conversations with him again he was just trying to gather various information and you know shared with him that it was never the planning commission or any of the planning commissioners canceling the meeting that it was in fact the planning department which we do receive   mail communication sometimes from the line or clayton and two of the reasons it's the most common reasons of why meetings are cancelled because there will be no quote then that's happened a few times but majority of the time because there are no action items on the agenda for us to vote on so provided him with those reasons and also dates that millions have been cancelled and again he you know one of the county's website they do have that information in the if a meeting is cancelled and again this this complaint was made back in july of two thousand and fifteen and i don't know why there was such a long delay of them following up on their site from what it sounded like it was kind of passed along to different people in the budget office and finally someone got it and decided to do their follow up so when talking with him it was really you know what do we as the planning commission need to do what do we need to be aware of and it's basically stating he had told me that we need to have this conversation on record where we can all be here at the meeting to discuss therefore we've got it on the agenda so yeah that's that's the gist of it i'm going to have no commissioners of mine if you object i'm going to ask mr john ellis to come up he was the complaint and also the chair at where the planning commission at that time i think it would be helpful to get some context john for the newer members of what made you initiate this expense in the planning department canceling meetings because they said there was nothing on the agenda well according to the maui county ordinance there is an ordinance that says that the clinton would say there was nothing on the agenda but when talking to spence about cancelling these meetings it was always on the money how much money it took to get the planning here and of our record and then start to discuss one thing i mean i thought it was very i mean i made the complaint in that first of all the counties got to make it a lot easier to  which for that little bit of background i attended i was on the commission back then and attended some of those workshops and they were so very helpful in helping us understand some of the applications that came before us in fact when john was chair he had asked to have workshops on the s and they possibly training are as i'm able well it has been how many years and i think  have workshops on and i don't think kelly i didn't get the impression that you were saying men's of rules so that we don't have to correct because we we want them we want to to be able to  i will at this time and i will make a motion i will make a motion that we have our monthly meeting regardless of agenda items or quorum and that we will be work with the planning department to find if there is no agenda items to find ways to make that a productive were slacking off and we were not putting forth our best efforts that would be one thing but that's certainly not the case as the records show and so i totally agree with you and the site says its motion as well and this can be discussed at the end of our every meeting when they can use it brings up what's on the agenda and sometimes he says there's nothing and i think that's when we as commissioners can make their recommendations of hey you know i'd really like to maybe have a workshop on the estimate boundaries or climate change or whatever it may be and being able to give feedback to the pine department of what our needs are or we might need refreshers so that when the application comes we kind of have that fresh in our mind i think that's going to be beneficial for all of us and also for the applicant as well so right now there is that's one of the one other point it's not the other way around the law had we have a motion or table where the islanders have the motion and the other discretion here we're going to take a vote all in favor of the motion please raise your hand that's so let's go ahead and move on to them at the director's report so i also attended then and i was very grateful this was my first time since being on the planning commission that i could attend that my work schedule didn't conflict and so it was really nice again what you haven't been there in a while was h planning and how that kind of ties in which which i thought was fascinating and that was something that i never really thought about we had this great speaker and i don't know where it's unfolding and i don't know but really talking about planner and how they plan for communities to be you know physically active you know walking communities biking communities and it was kind of like well yeah that would make sense but never we said it's a good way to network and meet other people  you know applicant name asked previously again as an informational item it's not anything we have any jurisdiction over but it was mark rick perry's continuance and i don't see that here unless i'm missing a page so we have three things correctly we have that item we have galleys item and we have margaret carries i am on the agenda which is what we are asking for while since the last is so now you're here tonight and you're already this week you know i i've had this thing before and i think sally also has a previous planning commission chair is the  give some sort of training to the chair so that the chair is know exactly where they're supposed to lead this commission and not let the planning department lead this commission did you have a training when you return no but we've asked  i mean right i was on the job training so it's our you know so that should be part of the county's when you're when the new chair is an elective they should send you to maui for two or three days and and they should get instructions there is pain if you take on the role of being a parent you're right you're thrown into it it's on the job training and you're learning as well as you know and when you're new chair you know you depend a lot on placements but there's sometimes there's