terry couple things under number five the catamount license agreement i mean the first sentence and it appears to repeat license agreement it's talked about  will review revisions to the kind amount license agreement relative to the conservation easements management plan and license agreement the second license agreement should be deleted to license agreements we yeah it probably is not observe that in there yes the next sentence read kate noted that and i'm sorry i forgot my glasses tonight so of course i'm having a bit trouble reading kate noted this state is between grant cycles so the town should front the money and close on the property then apply for the grant with  of being and i said being reimbursed and i think it's maybe should say being awarded because we have been reimbursed reimbursed reimbursed but we haven't even applied for the grant yet and then on the next of the first sentence in the next paragraph it says there was discussion of having to negotiate with a third party before and i think either the word permit did permit did or  activities very well there would be there are two things i picked up on is one is we're talking about the license agreement and also about the management plan by if we're talking with a license agreement had to be talking about the management plan to and that's where there was you know the phrase is permitted permitted that's a word or allowed in the activities because there's multiple activities think you're thinking of the conservation easement for permitted activit in general for instance mountain biking in general or you know whatever activities are being contemplated whether to be allowed or not you know you know horses or walking or skis so it's just not story got a couple more things under number seven keeping of chickens i'm in the third line and it mentions residential district so i'm not sure exactly what that means i mean i know what it residential district is first question is should that say districts because we have more than one residential district in town and  in the other question i had is when it continues on to say and a total of six chickens i know we spent a fair amount of time on this did we decide whether it be six chicken six female chickens or i guess the more accurate proposed to go before attachment a but the bigger questions have to do with the last sentence in the first paragraph actually the last two sentences in the first paragraph and they are kind of a very shortened i'm trying to think of the word glamorization of more complex issues bottom line i guess i'm recommending they be deleted because you know the first one says there is thirteen thousand gallons per day capacity for twenty years that's actually not accurate there are said about thirteen thousand gallons per day per year for about twenty years for twenty years but then it goes on to talk about and the trend on average is less than that amount and that's talking about a totally different thing that's talking about the amount we allocate so it just ended up i think being confusing not helpful so maybe should be deleted those last discussion and only picks up a little pieces of what actually i think was discussed and terry will be glad to hear that's it for interviewing for the conservation commission that's really car bypass covers withdrawn his application and we have the excuse that we interviewed two weeks ago so reid wants to come to the table here and if you would introduce yourself give us a brief because i have a long history of being interested in conservation and i'm interested in helping the town make good decisions and to set up future generations to have an even better well as tend to live in  i went to school at st lawrence university and studied environmental studies in chemistry so i have a bit of a scientific background perspective but i've also done a lot of work on a volunteer basis through multiple action committees or groups at the university at my current employer freddie mac and in the claim virginia as well as i here in boston today i participate with to have two basic questions for you the first one has to it's kind of the question of how is the town doing and by that i mean there's the town plan that will outline some of our conservation goals there's the conservation commission itself which has you know taken various actions so it's my question is have you had the opportunity to to read the town plan and cane or  the recent activities for the conservation commission the types of topics that have been on the agenda and that has recommendations they've been making since returning i've been here for about a year and a half and so i'm just getting a feel for kind of how things are going in town especially related to land conservation and i would say western is actually position pretty well the fact that we have so many facets of the comprehensive town plan that speak to the importance of conservation improving all sorts of things beyond just the ecology of wellston and the natural habitats that we have but also economic and recreational benefits ok good thank you and then my second question is a question for some reason it ends up falling on my shoulders i asked the other three folks that we interviewed at the last meeting i asked a lot of people with us the same question it's a conflict of interest question and basically i do freddie mac i don't really see at least you know that professional career there being much opportunity but  if there were a conflict how would you recognize it and what we what would you do about it sure so as far as recognizing conflict of interest i would just keep in mind that everything that i have a stake in whether it's through my primary job i also work in volunteer as a soccer coach and you know active throughout the community so i would just keep in mind all the different ways that the topics that are on the agenda might might intertwined with my bias he's and then as far as how i would deal with that because the conservation commission acts and advisory role i don't feel that it it's likely to be a problem the obvious we have four applicants all four of which i would be happy to appoint were in a very enviable position from that standpoint but we're also in a very difficult position from that standpoint because there is only one  slot for that's currently open so we i never like having to choose one over another i think reid is is is it actually is down between two for me reed is one but i thought it's cute john not after his his experience on his  he's been doing it for a long time and in a very direct environmental role in more and sort of an academic setting too you know each candidate has a pluses and minuses but there's a lot of pluses to john i want to put a plug in for it's i think it's gene he's identified here is gee that's actually the second or third time he's been both millisecond second time and that guy has he wants to help and i he's got a lot of experience and i really hope that we find a position where he can do just that he can help  rates and then jim is going to talk a little bit about some of the capital projects that they're working on right now so overall water sales are level and shipping water really tries to minimize their rate increase dollars sixteen and a half cents per one thousand gallons so that represents an increase of six point five cents per one thousand gallons which is three point one percent so if you look your historical rate increase impact on the average family it's part of your package and you'll see what that translates to and that's approximately four dollars and twenty seven cents per year per family using the average amount of water that's just about the same as the nine year and you will average per family which is four dollars and fifteen cents district so i think that's about where we want to be so overall champlain water they're very proactive about their operations and their maintenance as well as their capital investments and that helps prevent much more expensive repairs and emergencies so currently one of the projects are working on is studying the conditions of fifty four miles transmission means and that's going to be proactive with some of their asset management and long term planning confusing for the customer because it's for the most part those are separate separate departments and in our case where the wholesaler to twelve municipal water systems and our if you will our percent when you look across the twelve systems that has an impact because we're just one item in that larger budget somewhere between one to two percent to that retail systems because they all increase and so what would you attribute be increased larger e to we can mention that you know sales are level that's interesting you know there's a couple different factors there one of which is you know a lot of places do encourage water conservation and a lot of fixtures are me to use less water you know there's a small amount of growth in the county but not not a large amount so you kind of you know it's kind of balances each other out i guess i would say at this point so beyond that you know we again like i said they have to be proactive they have a lot of capital improvements you have to stay on top of your meat mints in order to prevent it was going to feature more expensive cost s so that you know that that money and that increase has to come from somewhere so first thing with the flat sales it has a small rate increase and let me ask question will bit differently if you don't mind and it's would it be  know only thing we've we've we've got going is we started a succession planning probably back in two thousand and fourteen and what we've tried to do is there's there's four people retiring all of a supposed ok they an agent in a fairly tight four year window unfortunately one person out right now in long term disability and very fortunately for the other person his wife when the megabucks or he left earlier so we've we've had a lot of staff transitioning and at times in the budget if you look specifically at labor it is very difficult to get a year to year comparison because it's not the same number of people there might be some overlap for hiring and originally the town had plans for what was a three fifty three fifty thousand gallon to begin with and it got reduced to three hundred thousand we were looking to retire the tank that's on tower lane  we've been working together on that for some of you i think of been here jeff i think terry for maybe the last five six years we've been talking about wanting to retire that when it's more or less  an elevated storage tank rather than a ground storage so the that the paint that particularly the exteriors is pretty expensive and unfortunately the way the tanker shape the interior had a fair amount of  ice rubbing on it and it impacted the painting cycle so that particular tank had the shortest painting recoating of any of our nine hundred tanks in the system so we're trying to phase that one out and our board through our tank policy has a way of working with a town that's building new storage to sort of team up so and doing that the larger the tank that you build the the cost per gallon goes down so we contributed fifty percent of the tank cost and attend the town was able to save about three hundred sixty four thousand we lucked into i say lucked into because we never really were too involved in the state revolving fun program because there's there were so many other utilities and water departments ahead of us it's sort of a point system where you've got to have some issues to be able to usually qualify for the money in the last few years we've been fortunate that a lot of people are not shovel ready to go and we way down this one here is a little bit different because it's on stilts but if if well let you know right when that happens but it will go down in a day or less so when you don't want to it's these guys have this down to a science so needless to say i didn't win the the pool for how quickly it was going to come down water tower hill i was way off because that one was i think it was a little over somewhere between eight nine hours and membrane have hours yep so there that's what they do they travel all over the country taking tanks down i can tell you that i'm going to miss that that tower that tower has been well ever since i've been in full time since that point and it's got some maintenance issues that we've got to work on you can't take the tank offline because it's part of regulations to hold water and allow chlorine to disinfect it before you release the water to the public so we've we've been kind of delaying living off this one tank for a while and then we've got two tanks online and we're working on the second part of that project as is is kind of a buried concrete basin what well in our unfair all and we decided if they're going to tear up the road that happens to be the closest of distance between our two twenty four inch diameter i service means that serve about ninety percent of our service area in the county so we're going to put across time in there so that if we have water breaks or whatever well it's than most any time we serve there's a lot of looping in the distribution system usually every street so when you have a break you can isolate things and not have very many customers where we're transmission so we've got about fifty four miles of pipe and it's seventy square mile area and we've been trying to loop for emergencies that if we did have an interruption or the need for repair that we've always got a way to dilute the water around the county from out from the supply point of view so that's going to help us tremendously we expect that will be done by this this fall and one of the last plan projects these are all been bonded and taken care of and our financial model is i think they're still calling it the double diamond cross over at exit sixty eight that requires water pipes that are going to be cut in right into the water mains so we we've got some work to do up there due to prep that area and get our sixty inch water main out of the construction below the construction  pact i mean we are not sure maybe two thousand and twenty that one will happen we just got new plans from the state updated plans from the state that we've got to go through again and make sure that our latest design which might have been our second time through the project it's still the design we want to use they've been tweaking it a little bit trying to move that project forward but i did in early we're going to try to get this out the middle of next month rather than waiting to the end of june and had hard copy so i thought i'd bring it the other hand out that you had nailed some of you of quick when the work that's going to go on at x six sixteen the lowering of that sounds like a main is the champagne water to ship we sponsible for that cost even though i say even though it's a trance project to that if you're in like the state right away and they require you to move it it's on the utility to to pay for that if you're in your own private right away and there widening the highway and you a reason we went out originally for a certain amount of dollars for that project him seven hundred fifty thousand dollars a few years back then the project got appealed and delayed and during that some of the money that was directed at this particular project for this feral street cross type it's a transmission main of course but it's just in a different a different spot so we repaired it at a bond vote for a kind of a set of projects that i talked about here the north bank and the plant project and we repurposed third question repurposed some of the seven hundred fifty toward feral st so right now that we're completing everything that got a group of us together and we extended the two thousand and two to two thousand and twenty two master plan from two thousand and sixteen if you thousand and twenty six so we'll probably we may be bonding again and  our site because our present maintenance facility may be converted to pretreatment for the plant treatment process itself but nothing planned immediately or that the alleged noncompliance and such noncompliance cannot be cured within such thirty day period then upon such date as can be independently documented for completion of that  rights section twelve under its be hurt rather the final section was stricken and that has been any such proposed revisions on an amendment to the community force plan and to amend the the terms of this agreement prior to amending the plan to ensure consistency with each other and i believe that those trust requests and those were fairly unsub and substantive just i think we talked about this last time i believe so maybe i don't need to repeat that discussion but just inserting references to the conservation easement various points various sections of this agreement and at this point the other parties have agreed to this agreement as it summarize them quickly so i don't i don't want to write a book or a novel here but but some of the things i found out where that we've been negotiating this license with catamount for almost a year since last july or before actually before that we've been in the go sheesh and with count which which i mean as a board member but remember ever ever closing or having closure of giving exclusive license to any entity not i'm not saying can't mts the wrong on that i'm just saying that we never had that discussion especially exclusive license is a lot of things in the contract i'm not excited about but i'm not saying not having kadam out there is is one of them but so we've been negotiating this in some way for a year and then in july i think there was a is talking with all these parties there was a memorandum of understanding between the town and the kadam outdoor family center which i don't think was ever shared with the board and it's a several page memorandum of understanding that suggests that the town is going to negotiate this license i think interpretation and i'll let the catamount out her family center people say with their interpretation of it is but their interpretation of this is that the town and i think some of the some of the you know the homeowner residential feedback we see is along the lines of some of the comments i've made and that is when i read the agreement it looks like  we're buying a town forest for catamount to stand business and i don't think that's the way it was sold when i attend i attended all the early meetings with the town residents and all that we got commentary and you know and  had decided i think as a board to go forward and pursue this right so i was an impression paper get in town for us it's going to be great we're going to have a study committee which we also did in the study committee was going to come back and make make recommendations well we've not seen any recommendations i mean so far from the committee and a license agreements been a negotiation for almost a year and there's a memorandum of understanding that wasn't shared with the board so from their perspective i feel like we haven't been very informed as a board you know from up from the standpoint of how things are working and i think it's also a little maybe a little from caramels perspective i mean i think they feel like we we've made this commitment to do something with them and to enable them and now the residents feel like something else is going on right the residents don't like it because they weren't informed so as we discuss so it was at the end i just joined the select board in april of last year so if it was before that i would have seen it likely but that was before the discussions as well wasn't with the town and i know with the town it was brought up that that was  mcauliffe but i think at that point in time you know we needed to study that as a board so at least in my tenure we haven't had that discussion and i've been under the impression that we're buying this is a community forest universe pending six hundred thousand dollars and again i'm not saying catamounts the wrong organization what i'm suggesting is the contract maybe should be written more along the lines of we're buying a town forest we'd like them out to continue operating its programs they're great programs but the it doesn't give his the town as much control as it feels like we should have him and that's what i want to say and i think so the so rick let me just add one more thing on this so in talking with the various constituents i understand why they want they want to be negotiated with if we do things that impact their their operations because our operations bring in funds that contribute to maintaining the property and if the margins are thin and i think they set pretty thin margins i don't pay anybody all out of money coming down through this with some of the members if we want say for instance we want to have dog walking half the property and that impacts their business b you know i mean again i'm not going to i'm just going to throw a number out there just for the purposes of an example ten thousand dollars well now their ability to maintain the property goes down by ten thousand dollars in this case the the way this agreement is written is the town doesn't put in anything i mean the town time puts in zero and it and it seems like that was a condition we put forward i don't know if it was in the memorandum of understanding but we put that condition on this well that's what i've heard  just telling you we put the condition under so therefore it's kind of a you know it's a zero sum game if we have uses of the property that take away from cannot they need to have some ability either to get the additional funds to maintain or not allow that activity to happen because their books will close right at the end of the day so i think it's a fair thing to do but it seems like we need a mechanism in the contract you know that does it maybe that you put it i know you clause and i haven't looked at the implications of the clause you just put in but but direct does that make sense i mean if we have something that takes away a certain amount of time and fund raising capability my memory i don't recall any memorandum of understanding there is can i just speak to that because at the very beginning near the beginning of this project we talked about creating a memorandum of on understanding as a starting point for negotiating license agreement we drafted something i kind of felt that when we drafted it and then we were  starting on the process of drafting license agreement so for me it was kind of a moot point and i you know i kind of dropped it and it was never signed by either party i mean it started out as a draft just mainly just to float ideas you know between the two what kind of relationship it's a very legalized document and it's it's as much as i could take from a from a document perspective it seems like it was drafted by lawyers n it's certainly looked at it wasn't but in talking with at least the c o f l representative they looked at this as a kind of this is what we're abiding by you know why is everybody complaining about catamount having control because this is what we intended to go do so that's think i mean i think that the intent was there from the start and given that you know this is something that the mccullough's wanted they wanted to protect this property  largely because of the recreational asset that it offers and i think that they had that intent from the very start and you know i i believe that from the very start it was it was stated in a pretty public way this partnership between the town and the outdoor center i don't and one other point on that is i am sure we would not have gotten ranked second in the country out of only seven federal grants if not been for what the recreational asset that it is now that the mcauliffe have built there we also would not have gotten three hundred twenty five thousand from vermont has a conservation board their normal limit for human municipal project is one hundred fifty thousand and they go over that if they consider it a statewide resource so i think there's a big difference between kind of a plain vanilla town forests that and what is there now and that is why it's attracting federal money it's attracting more state money it's tracting money from businesses and non profits and national foundations so i don't think we would have been able to purchase this or the town would have been able to purchase this property if it had not been for all the other successful grant reason that we've been able to do that is purely around with you know the mccullough's provide including you know to have miles of wheelchair accessible  trails one of the only places to go skiing in ginning county including you know empowering mountain bike camps for eight year old girls i mean that's a special thing and people are responding to that and you the citizens of wilson are responding to that so i don't think that we could've made this happen without kind of their families and and i'm i might add to that that at a meeting out he followed me out and he personally thanked him you know he said i i really want to thank the town for you know saving this resort you know like for protecting this resource so you know i think that kind of speaks a lot you know to  the licensing agreement is not up to where you would want to be only from am from a town rights perspective ok i would say that it needs to be drafted in a way that protects the residents rights were more putting in all of the work we're putting in the new residents many here six hundred thousand to start and it just seems like we shouldn't for instance this i don't want to dwell on the dog issue but let's just bring it up is the and all of us have gotten e mails about this from various residents this is the before the licenses even signed we've got a lot of pushback from the catamount outdoor family center it was anything but it kept him out and that's just one example and that's why i said maybe we can find a better way to write this such that if there are impacts you know we work together to solve them because i don't think the residents would expect access and things for nothing in fact they don't get it when it comes to the trails themselves right you're i think it's a day past now ten dollars for skiing or biking  is it ten ten dollars or i don't know what the donator sorry but so that's not it's not for free there and in the event that we do something that causes some impact and you can't raise the bones let's make sure we have a mechanism to take care of that and people understand when they want to do things that this is what the cost is i don't know that's just my thought and from a from a license agreement you know it's written in a way that says my interpretation i'm not an attorney so the smart guys here will have to correct me but my interpretation is we negotiate and if we don't if we if we can't come to an agreement we go to mediation so it seems like immediately have we have an issue that we haven't come to agreement on this dog issue and again i'm speaking that with the slipper but in general with residents pretty pretty tough pushback we're going to mediation it whereas i don't think the town should be subjected to ation and something like that that seems like a reasonable working really hard and kind of responding to all the citizens concerns about the uses and i know you haven't seen the language yet or i mean it is it is on the town website but the it hasn't been presented to you yet and that have been grappling and they'll be pretty presenting some suggested solutions to you for your review and approval so that i think is a very i mean we don't want to get into the dog issue during the ice and so i mean that's kind of a separate kind of the whole probably not suppose like word meanings that that all of those issues will be discussed with the management and i would expect we get more public input to you'll make recommendations or become public and then we'll get because this is a very small group of people from enough i recall interviewing them all a great number one resident on the road i mean a very large number we're close neighbors or people along that road maybe more than that but anyway i would think the whole town should shine in because a lot of cases you know we have maybe twenty people in the audience there's one thousand residents good to get good feedback so the other thing i'm just confused i'm still confused about the process because why would we see the results of this committee before signing an agreement i don't understand the board to approve this tonight or sign anything this is just the preliminary approval of documents so we can keep the process moving because there's many documents that go through for example at the i'm sorry but that if we were told just a couple of weeks ago that we were already late on this which you know been talk to people stop me on the bike path i'm talking about this which kind of freaks me out that they recognize me in your pictures at your pictures on the website  actually really surprised at the amount of contact i'm getting from people saying two things and one the dog thing actually is and hearing a lot about that but i'm not i'm not interpreting that to mean that it's just about the dogs because i'm getting a follow up with people saying same thing the truce has been saying that if we have if we're if the town is actually going to be owning this then why you know it doesn't seem like the town is actually exercising any ownership power when after the contract is signed and it goes through and i'm hearing that from people that i'm kind of surprised to hear that from and i i think that the dog issue the pushback that came from that was it was perhaps could have been handled a little differently but in any event  i'm getting the same kind of feedback and and so that made me look at the license agreement again and i do you know i'm very much want this project here with us but you know i was looking at this and you know those he's been there the whole time but the you know the first thing that the town here by grants licensee an exclusive right in license to use the property so that's but then the only thing that i see that has been added and it's a big thing i don't want to say only like it's small but in twelve d that the town licensee should permit public pedestrian access which is defined meaning walking hiking running except when conditions exist that are i'm assuming that means that that would not be charged for that actually but my my point is that i'm getting a lot of i'm getting a lot of comments back saying what it was for spending this much money this much of the town's taxpayers money what are the taxpayers getting for rights out of this other than to allow catamount to continue on which is a nice altruistic thing from their perspective but nothing that impacts them i've even had people say you know i don't care if they develop it i'm fine with it and i i don't share that view but i'm hearing a lot of stuff like that and i wanted to bring that to people's attention that it's out there i'm also you know again i'm i'm worried with the document that's that's coming about the conversations that people have had in the issues that people are trying to work through one of the concerns that i have is that if if it's resolved that ok we're going to mediate it i've had lots of unsuccessful mediation  usually that's not the case usually mediation works but it doesn't have to and i i always i always come back to the historical example of the right after world war two when the great powers met and every  time the the leaders of the soviet union england france and the united states had an agreement they had something they couldn't come to agreement so well that will leave it at the secretaries and the foreign ministers what of that do you know but just they those guys took their marching orders from from the head person and it didn't do anything so if if there is not an ultimate tiebreaker in this document somewhere if there is not actual and this is a terrible word to use when we're all talking about you know conservation and public use and collaboration but if there is not ultimate power somewhere in this document for the town and i don't mean dictatorial power but i mean where something would be resolved past mediation or someone would get to make the decision one way or the other then it's you know there's a potential recipe for disaster because not all of us are going to be alive and working on these projects fifty years from now i i am fifty three so at one hundred three it's very unlikely that i'm going to be part of it but i mean but that's got to have an actual this license doesn't go that far anyway but i mean my point is that it's with got to have resolution and that's and i'm hearing i don't know if that would assuage the comments that i'm getting from people i i think it might have been even if it doesn't  it might be enough anyway i mean if i could just speak to your comments about it how people feel like there's not going to be anything for them  or have have not devised a specific plan to integrate horses and dogs that doesn't mean that that can never happen but it means that yeah on day one you know when the town owns the property people can't go out and do whatever it is they want to do i mean i think that it may take a long time to figure out how to integrate these uses and i think it would be i mean i think you'd be irresponsible for every use you know for the property to be opened up to all uses on day one without thoughtful consideration of how those uses are going to be all be integrated and so it doesn't mean that that the town is excluding these uses it means that right now there are just there needs to be more time to figure out how it's all going to work i'm also getting a lot way more than i would have expected on this and i think at the end of the day i want to put words in your mouth that i think we're getting at the same thing is that the and result should be that the town not the mcculloch's have the right to say what's going on and i getting that kind of where you guys are coming from i think you know from a just to be responsible to the taxpayers i think that's and that's not getting into i don't get into the dog thing either and actually even as a diver owner that is not what i want to see going up there but that has nothing to do with this it's just at the end of the day when the dispute can't be resolved the final thing should belong to the town just one pointed out that the town does have the ultimate authority for ownership and management decisions on the property but according to this licensing agreement the way i'm reading it me but i property is always give this lecture to people in my office and they probably roll their eyes just like everybody hears about it but i take pens out of pen holder and i said property is a bundle of rights that's all property is that's why a novel is property it's intellectual property and real estate dirt is also property well they're very different things so how come they're both property because it a property defines your relationship to something it doesn't define the thing itself that's what property is your ability to control things when you have a license agreement what's happening is the town is going to get title and then the town says great i'm going to hand these specific property rights back to you as my licensee and then i don't have authority over them just like a landlord doesn't have authority over a apartment anymore because it's not really theirs they've given that property right to the person who has now right to live in it as long as they pay their rent and so this license agreement so far does give a significant amount of power away and and i'm going to probably differ a little bit with other people on this like what i don't know that's such a terrible thing in if it's if it's done  in a measured way and if there's a way to deal with resin resolve conflicts and and make sure everybody feels like they have a seat at the table because somebody's got to run it and you know the catamount has been running it so heck that might be a great idea if they keep doing that and they're going to need authority to do that so really i don't we have a problem with the fact that somebody is going to have to manage it and somebody is going to and a license agreement is as fine as anything else but it doesn't you know the fact that the town has title to the property doesn't mean that the town has a property rights over whatever it gave away in a license agreement so i am you know again i'm going to i don't again i'm not in any way advocating some sort of dictatorial power that the town would have but i i do think that this is you know maybe this could be modified one of the thing real quick i was i was on the psych ward when the roundabout  town was going to take a portion of the top of the church is that the steps that it was going to take that the gas pumps from the corner store and the school buses wouldn't get past those the and emergency vehicles fire trucks would not be able to get past the roundabout so we were cutting off that part and people believed that immediately and i was thinking yeah because you know i don't i don't want to sound arrogant i'm big huge select board member we have two meetings a month and there's a lot of power that comes with that but but that being said i'm not at least not that stupid that we would do something like that as a you know let's just cut that part of the town off they don't need then how many ambulance calls we even get over there anyway but my point is that that the perception was reality and this stuff can spread very quickly and i don't know that that's what's happening here i just call it out as something that is that everybody should be aware that you know there is a public education component to all of us and if there's information that's going out there that's not accurate efforts need to be made so is the two lawyers on this like court i don't know if there's more than two but i'm do you want to suggest some people don't mind i've got three questions hopefully quick i apologize if we've talked about them in previous meetings or maybe even tonight it's similar to everybody else i was you know information i really have been receiving caused me to go back and look at this in my first question they're all about the relationship between this license agreement what i believe it is termed the catamount force plan and the plan that this group of folks are working on right now sometimes what i call the management plan and i'm out force plan ok my next question is is i'm on one of the this license agreement is the one that reads where as at the time the property was sold i mean this is actually executed to the town it was the mutual understanding and the mccullough's and the town that licensee would continue to operate the recreational center consistent with past practices and would maintain the property and trail network in are consistent with past practice i guess i'm going to ask what does that mean and what i mean by that is does that mean that this that the license agreement has some sort of can trump maybe that's you know i'm not a lawyer so i'm going to use words like can trump  catamount force plan or the conservation easements so those two documents are more in a sense again my lack of understanding legal issues are more important than in a sense this legal document because they have more power over using the power term over what can happen on the land or than this document can is that accurate there is some feedback between them as a plan the license agreement because if you know that the master plan is every ten years and can be changed or renewed in a shorter amount of time but that in the license agreement is an exhibit to the management plan and there's been as also an exhibit of license agreement but you know there is some language in here that you know when the master plan is changed and if it affects county outdoors operations that you will collaborate with commodore from your son on these changes so there is some  instruction to collaborate on that but ultimately the license has to follow the master plan and the license has to follow the easement ok great thank you so we've heard about the dog issue there's the horse issue i personally am in favor of having an forced plan and the negotiations that would happen over that in those negotiations can't happen until this guy is executed is that correct i mean i realize to be a plan that's developed but any changes to that plan will happen until this is it's well we we need a license we need them as an unplanned signed at closing or lease and interim management plan has to be approved by the slight board and easement holders prior to closing ok of closing yes prior to closing ok all right so that has to happen and then this will be signed after all that closing yes i close ok ok all right that's helpful ok thank you all it sounds like we need to revisit i don't remember twenty four  yet and that's that's fine i'll be honest with you i'm not going to have substantial input on item number twenty four i know there's others who will have maybe some comments but i just want to say at this point  i'm good with you know whatever you're looking for tonight support with moving ahead with this i think it's more than twenty four i think the agreement it needs can't write in twenty six sections oh no no no i'm not suggesting i can just that wasn't going and i mean there might be specific provisions in here that you might be able to point to so that they've got at least some of the direction but  but i wasn't quite sure and that's why i talked to you i wasn't quite sure how to do this to you i appreciate receiving it and i don't know so we'll be back talking about the license agreement some time in your future and the management plan as well can amount for explaining whatever the name of that is yes i mean it's an important thing right we spent quite a bit of time talking about the when to a town vote on the thirty thousand dollars or spending with we get public input as well couple of things in case anybody gets a wrong idea because i've been here longer than anybody and have been a part of  race track and it got that name because we used to have the catamount used to have cross country ski races on our property ladder property you just as part of his operations at t the cross country skiers and the catamount would not have to worry about interference with his users i only say that to why it hasn't been successful to the point where he has hasn't been able to make it go so to speak because it seems to me  though it's been very popular and bothers me that we are as a town putting up a lot of money not all of it and i understand they're working very hard to get money from going to this worsens but we're being asked to basically subsidize subsidize the continued use as it is based on what was written there with no changes and that those were the choices given to the town to the voters that we either given the numbers alone i just don't understand i would like to know where the price comes from nobody has yet to be answered my answering that question and also the question of stewardship what exactly on the ground are we getting or does it take to steward this lead and what is it exactly that is supposed to be done to maintain this as a community for years is there anyone there can he answer those questions and i mean i'm talking actual on the ground activity that is required to what we're what we're getting are being offered here this practice that was drive to the town seems to be presented as take it or leave it as it's  presented and there's no can be protected without having to go through this process and still maintain programming since the uses that are currently underway have been decided that they want to be continued and if that's the case then what is it the town against the people in town specifically that's  that's when i ask where what exactly are we getting that we don't already have so it's whether in light of all of or if somebody can address these questions now i i really would like to know keep things happening in the listing that are currently happening but you may or may not agree with that as a question if i understand your question it has to do with the seventy five percent it's in the part of town words around seventy percent of the has to remain open space but if for instance there mccullers were to sell it to a develop i'm just hypothetically talking would there be a chance that the land would remain open or would it be a be owned by whoever owns it now and it would be the exclusive use of the homeowners association or something along those lines i guess i'm just i want to make sure i understand if if if the mccullers went a different route and you know as opposed to selling the land to the town what guarantees would we have that public access as it currently exist or could it increase what guarantees would we have that that would happen and i'm not asking that necessarily of you patrice i'm just sort of asking that based on you know the question you you asked people we should ask if terry we can add that to the list of things that we get back because that's part of zoning right that should be part of i mean this whole twenty five seventy five percent of it when a developer has for four hundred acres around numbers say three hundred of those have to be conserved in some way in this particular district are the three hundred acres that are conservative they part of the developer who purchased it the four hundred so they have exclusive rights to the property unless they give lessons so if a developer bought the four hundred acres i think patrice what they're saying is that the developer whoever the property would have that right to exclude others exclude others or make it i think many  it would depend on the proper licensing language moment to me i would ask this all to slow down think about where we want this thing to go what is the vision what are the facts behind it i think there's a lot of information out there at least a lot of we're really looking for is a partnership with the town and i think ted you said it best people's perception is their reality unless we all true that perception we will have this problem forever right this will resolve itself in america with the committees we have whatever so i would ask us to really step back think about what are we trying to accomplish future align on that goal and start moving on direction because i don't think we're headed that's my fear they're gearing up for the first phase of their stormwater improvement project and as part of our film the requirements for to get the administrative permit they need to have a  town loan and we found the request the association made was to ask the board to waive that provision in the ordinance would they be faced with is coming up with that ten percent so approximately forty thousand dollars before they can get their ministry a permit from the town we checked language before you tonight so what we would do with that proposed amendment would allow the town to move from the stormwater funds that security amount of the ten percent into the town's escrow account that money would that  meet the requirements or receive the the don't agreements get the administration permits speaking construction was like we were approved that movement of funds along the same time that the loan was approved that money would move into the escrow account it would sit there  if the projects needed that money is seen there it's kind of a safety cushion if more funds are needed to complete the work if we get towards the end of construction they find they need five thousand dollars more at that point the town can move that money from the escrow  station can pay the five thousand dollars at that time that great tactic those funds are whole and their existing loan agreement of the same terms and conditions this is a way by changing town policy mechanically to allow this to take place without putting a burden on the association to get those those funds right now i checked with staff and you know we have a number of projects out there and this is the largest project i believe in terms of any of us here so it's unlikely we'd see another request of of this magnitude in funds to make home we generally have the finances to there's enough cash flow essentially what happened here is this money start construction in say may or june to my escrow it sits there and hope construction is finished money moves back to  the question because there's a lot of pieces here so i guess i'm confused because we've approved one hundred percent loan rate basically so what's the the mechanics of the money's not available at the time it is this with me as part of our development bylaws and you type it all my financial security is required so this would be ten percent of the project cost essentially it's if some were not to be able to complete the project there some fun sitting there that could be used to complete the projects so this is to meet that development by law that ten percent has to be as you put it to show you standing is this is for a brand new projects only in other words it would not apply and i you can correct me if i'm wrong it would not apply to existing projects where you're doing renovation work to put it on but if we've approved one hundred percent loans is it because the loan money isn't available upfront or  this is technically going to be alone it's money that set aside temporarily was the point and let's say everything goes fine and the money isn't needed then it goes right back into the stormwater fund it's not part of a long if for some reason you needed that to finish that thing they'll use that to finish it up and it's all party along and this is the scene here it's the same concept they want to make sure that the entire project gets done and and you know what you get into when you overrun go over budget would our loan program i assume it would but i just want to hear confirmation would pay for those cost overruns they could increase their loan amount to that to the question i want to know  cost overruns because it's real and that doesn't it would not affect i'm going to tack on to that it would not affect and this is the largest one so it doesn't affect the overall funding scheme mechanism we already have in place for everybody thousand dollar number i checked with planning and we can split that project into two development agreements are only there building two plans this year and another pond and down the road here so by splitting it don't have to move eighty thousand over  your question are you sure i'm sorry just a procedural question i see there's a motion in here and i just want to check this is not something where we have to have any sort of a public hearing here because it's a policy we can it's at our  other people work in place it just for them would be nice to have some certainty that you know i get that and because normally i would like to invoke the two week rule but i think tonight could be if you will an exception i mean i've read through now you get a big lo important aspects that we're dealing with in the stormwater program and i'm going to run through them normally i like to summarize but this has a lot of detail on this so i'm going to sleep and then happy to take the questions afterwards brief update on grants went back as far as twenty fifteen and since then the stormwater program was tamed around eight hundred fifty thousand dollars in grants which has  facilitated wars in the process of facilitating one point six million dollars for the projects you can also see this in more detail in table one which is on page three a significant portion of these grants about six helping to facilitate about one point two million dollars project cost so that's what we're bringing into the down to help move forward the allen work flow restoration plan it's a good segue into the next section here  plan includes more than just residential projects it includes schools and commercial projects as well however the town is most involved as you are well aware in the residential projects because we will in fact be taking them over once they are completed so this update doesn't include what's going on with those private commercial and schools although i'm happy to touch upon that if you like specifically with the residential projects little bit confusing but there are eighteen neighborhoods and seventeen permits that's because the metro run slash forest run neighborhoods are all under one storm water permit so these numbers i'm about to list off are actually regards to storm water permits s have a policy that only allows us to apply for grants for the residential portion of the floor situation plan so yeah all of those grant funds for the brook forest ration plan or for residential care program even allow commercial entity don't apply for i'm not sure if i have a definitive answer for you my kneejerk is no it needs to be a municipal project and the reason that we're kind of making this work is because while they are private they're in good faith transitioning to municipal so but i can't speak definitively on that so the residential projects for the plan one neighborhood has completed all of its construction and town stuff has submitted f incorporation documents to the state that means we said a state that met everything they needed to incorporate them into our overall permit for neighborhoods have achieved substantial completion we're basically just working on the final paperwork to allow us to ask the state to incorporate those neighborhoods seven neighborhoods are slated for either complete or partial construction over the twenty eight hundred twenty one thousand calendar years i say partial because metal ridge is approaching this in two phases as we're kind of calling it phase one of these two paths and it's two is the second so and then five neighborhoods have not yet you know move forward with any sort of grant funding to the towns knowledge or begun big construction process of their own accord which they're perfectly willing to do i will amend that of those five willison commons is one of those while they still have technically not received a grant the town staff has and i get a bit confused with how the group process works and what i mean by that is an application is submitted but it sounds like it's submitted with a specific project it's submitted for a specific project  town receives the grant and that money comes into the town is how is that money allocated and what i mean by that is is that money allocated only to that specific project or does it go into a fund where it can be allocated to multiple projects if you does that make sense yes we do have a policy addressing this and we did and what it does is the select board has agreed on percentages that each neighborhood is  eligible to receive and that was very strong yes ok you know construction cost and other factors so we go ahead and actually have i'll just use wilson commons as a potential theoretical example let's say they get a grant  hundred thousand dollars to cover their their their hundred thousand dollar project even though there's fifty thousand dollars of free money from the state a fifty thousand dollars grant we still require wilson commons to pay the full one hundred thousand upfront so in the short term the individual in the individual neighborhood sees no benefit from the grant whatsoever in the long term as each of these residential properties begins to hand their systems over to the town there are awarded their percent so i happen to know metal ridge is about twenty seven percent so of all the grants are received and right now it's about one point two million for the for us ration plan met original see rule will receive twenty seven percent of that as long as it doesn't exceed the construction costs so the twenty seven percent of have of the six hundred great you have this can get a look confusing we're talking about one hundred thousand dollar project being awarded and getting fifty thousand dollars grant absolutely so the twenty seven percent are of the free money we get from the state and that was really important because we need to have an equitable way to do this we can't just get a grant for wilson commons and say well you guys are a little better off but  total crossing isn't so that was how we just great thank you touching upon the last portion of this gus with the floor plan here in the memorandum is the town of wilson was originally responsible for two projects of their own town hall fields and they had farm town staff state staff from various agencies and the engineering firm representing us took multiple site walks up to my hand farm and as it turns out it is not a suitable location for storm or controls so that is basically off the table for a potential site doesn't mean the town's off the hook for meeting our plan but that site's no longer a consideration the town hall field which is right behind us the solar fields there is a proposed design that we are in the very final stages it will be done by this june to receive one hundred percent design plan that project now during the design process we did come up against a number of wetland restrictions that made the project difficult to implement at best we received word from the weapons program that perhaps at a future time as we continue to move through the plan it could be permissible but at that at this current time they weren't too happy about that wetland impacts so while we will have a hundred percent plans for the town hall fields it is a potential  we are in a little bit of limbo with if that will end up being implemented i will say there currently is a draft journal permit for the wetlands department out for comment that expands what stor bathtubs so we can capture of the water let him slow it down and let that flow exit out over a certain part of time but ultimately we are in compliance of the team deal if the aquatic biota comes back up to health quite biota let's just call them fisheries because that's what they are  there are other things but we'll use that for today we have been told we are holding more or less steady with the potential for very gradual improvements in our own brooke so many of the state staff have experienced express optimism that we are on track to meeting our team deal with that said we're only on track if we meet and implement these controls that we're proposing to so again we're in an optimistic place but still have work to d we haven't had a number of neighborhoods express interest in loans and such as metal ridge are actually in the process of our legal counsel their counsel pulling together this documentation with all that said between now and perhaps november of twenty one thousand we may need to loan out another eight hundred seventy thousand and we've crunched the numbers or rather jennifer's track crunched the numbers and we are on track to be able to handle the likely influx of loans if i were to guess that would probably be on the higher side but it's potential that we could have to loan out about that amount moving on to meto run and again just as stages when because there's an old active fifty permit there we had that had to be dug up and looked at and it triggered a flood plain flood plain review and the state came back to us and said they don't think they can perm because if allen brook chose to migrate towards the pond they were they would worry that the existence of that infrastructure would have us armor the bank of allen broken not allow it most extreme being that if i did choose to migrate next year twenty years from now or forty years from now we would at dime of the town remove the pond and not reinforce the brook above and it we did every step of the way until we just had to turn around so with that said that's another project that will not be implemented doesn't mean we're not going meet our team deal but i could eventually in the future mean that the town of wilson needs to do a little bit more  part of this r p in which case great news it's also possible that as we get closer and closer the deadline if aquatic buyout is not being met the state will come back to us and say you still haven't met it you're going to have to do more in which control in a different section of the h away but yeah they are not going to be personally held responsible for a future fix a brief update on that the cash flow which gets back to a little bit about the loan discussion is as of june twenty one thousand were expected to have a storm a fund balance of one point four million of this of a loan which leaves roughly seven hundred eighty thousand to be immediately available for loans now i know i said we may need upwards of eight hundred seventy thousand for loans and we only have seven hundred eighty thousand  but even within there some wiggle room we may get a little more revenue from the stormwater program and we may need a little less loans out there so we are pretty confident we're close to being right where we need to be under budget and continued to be under budget six and put the overall things i'm in good shape in other words we seem to be pretty much on target in the updated staffing because i think officers yet the other problem is even if we hired someone there's not a lot of openings in the academy so we're going to do some jelly even if we do hire someone but anyway he's  item i want to just briefly touch on is we did have a major water wars that occurred we are pursuing legal action against a property owner because in our view due to their negligence this  water loss would have been found a whole lot sooner than it was we became aware of it in i think it was early january and it wasn't until the end of march that we found  leak and they had bypassed they created their own connection to one section of the building that is still being used and we weren't aware of it because they they didn't get the proper permits and the water that was dirt and part of it i guess there was an opening in the sewage system that was going down the sewer drain and so it was a combination of things that they probably did wrong and so we're we're going after them noticed by the water district leaders that they noticed that our overall usage suddenly was up higher and so we spent a lot of time going around town we did find one little leak involving a fire hydrant but that didn't account for the volume and so they just kept at it and eventually narrowed it down and found it but they didn't suspect that because the business in back had water so you know we just had no way of knowing that in sewage flows over the past year and i wonder if this is somewhat attributed to that also because you mentioned it was being lost down the sewer system there was that we did notice an increase in the sewer use to be did i thought it was only during this limited time period which is from january to march ok that wouldn't have covered the period that can was talking about and it i'm sure the cold had something to do with it the cold temperatures  i think the only other thing i want to comment on is the it's not my written report is i before tonight's meeting i met with the new ski valley park district yeah and it was good meeting the the have expressed interest in continuing discussions about the funding formula despite the town vote and i certainly encourage that and explain the rationale for why we were concerned about the funding form as it is they also expressed them  stand moving forward with the what we've been called the jacob property and i explained that we are interested in moving forward that as well but we're preoccupied at the moment with another large property and this is as we get that a little bit of distance on that then we forward and i guess i just also mention the noise ordinance update we did receive some additional information from the gun club they've been very responsive and getting assistance information seems to contradict the information that i have however tonight just to real quick things i saw were johns the company with the transportation board sent out a letter and i just was hoping the town would be providing feedback it added a perspective that i really did not and i want to say i did not consider remember asking you know if this is a lot to do in a short amount of time but the way she expressed how these things take time was just very helpful to me my question about camus she also on the conservation commission is just the same can conquer same person she's someone who passes me on the mountain bike races you know ok good thank you i have a very diary of the mine but could attend you know one of these festival type dance or anything very costly but i know that the library board and the library staff of m