well we're actually wants to explore federal grants for building the water to i'm not aware of any federal grant programs that just help you offset rates why producing love means that essentially it's it's a loan that gets partially forgiven over time and we're definitely looking at that that's what went into her house with the last time that it looks like we will be able to replace the tank without having a significant impact on rates in the future but unfortunately the message that we got from the state and and the state folks who work with the feds is that there wasn't any pool of money that was available to help us out of the current predicament and all of this is not to give the builders the big increase in rigs that we are currently experiencing largely a function of the one thing that the former speaker said it i think that there is probably a common perception that that action was taking quickly at the last meeting to just the budget and just to give everyone a little bit more of the background to the first and foremost concern of it not the four ability of the rates now after that was passed there was a lot of discussion within the commission and also we got a lot of input from from all of you and from other water and and and a lot of us felt that something needed to be done in order to decrease the immediate impact but there are tradeoffs and the tradeoffs are that whereas before what we had was something that was a big increase but we were very confident wasn't going to have to be increased again for a long time what we have now after the last meeting is one that is lower now but which we don't have that degree of confidence anymore now i  supported that change i was lobbying for that from the earliest point because we can't for to what the future's going to bring and i think that maybe the pendulum may have swung too far in the other direction in terms of making the system as financially robust as we possibly could at the expense of the short term impact on rates but it wasn't something that got decided that evening this is the say that just like no i'm not going to raise taxes i've heard that before back i never heard of these meetings over the last couple of months now and i hear it over and limited so if we incur costs we are much more alike when we only have a credit card we can't remark in turn house were obligated to then cover our costs so if the budget goes up and expenses go up so for instance we have service on those two projects and then we have to cover the debt service jets that seem like an accurate description of our so that that's true although with certain things you can stagger how  put them into the system so that as your favorite one thing go off you might be able to pick up another thing without having to increase your birth revenue which is planning for the changes as opposed to the changes that pay for crowns for her territory but but i think to chris's current the bill is exactly the kind of feedback that we were getting that was the adjustment that was made at the last meeting you know in the initial choice was not to stagger it like that and then the feedback we got was that that's what people really wanted and so the step back was taken but like i said what it meant is that we went from a situation where there's a big rate increase and we fully funded all of the all of the capital accounts which meant that we knew that going forward we would you know we would have money set aside to pay for things that came up and now we have somewhat less because the just meant that we made last week that lowers my confidence in being able to say there will be what we're hearing also is a lot of communication creating that lack of trust and positive way forward to the community and i think it's really important that every keep that in the forefront of these community and we're talking about communication of how we get it so i would recommend along the lines of what these folks have just said that for very orderly building we get a better standing on a quarterly basis of where that money is going but trying to narrow down to the lay person's ability to understand so in a it raises a hundred fifty dollars that's a but i still say fish here because i don't have those figures and i don't know how to get them through have to say what's going on so i don't think the town would propose the bonding at last there is an understanding that somebody is going to pay for it in this case the understanding is beyond the current customers or users the broader question of should the entire entire town pay for it the infrastructure of the water system i think the question has been raised before i joined the commission yes and it did and i think in ninety and i think there are still questions when we get to other purposes like the tank where we review some of them again but as i understand it we are here we are based past infrastructure improvements in depth it's current carry by the customers which is separate from what we might do in the future we can revisit what we do for future us there are some members of the commission  also select board members who would then be in the position of asking the rest of the town to pay for things again and if they refuse that goes forth and say ok but this is like word can't compel and they got us the project and the water sewer you just pick up the infrastructure no matter and they don't get that we should be able to address the question of how much did the total budget go up and went to the line items that drove that and then how much did we generate and indeed increased revenues to be able to show you the balance between the expenses and the  more sensitive if you go up or down so if you're use goes up your bill goes up in real time faster if it goes down it goes down in real time faster but it will be powerful so that your bill could go up or down more frequently over the course of the year you know just where this was one of the issues that are people say if you fill your swimming pool you suffer from in throughout the year so i think if you did it worry you see a huge chunk of that one quarter and then it would drop down again we go do this sort of thing we need to be doing ok we can't do that sort of thing and listener boys input but we can't meet in private in executive session because of the state laws ok so then the five of us get together and we don't want to see it it's really really frustrating so chris you mentioned it sort of a sign far that it sounds like we need another locker meeting to review the budget and the restructure i'm just struck that if there's this much confusion and concern about it we're not going to able to deal with it in half an hour of public comment that we may have to do some more structured way we had one of those meetings in the library  to propose that we do then again and perhaps prepare in advance some explanation again if there is a budget to save these line items wind up or down by how much to explain in that budget increase  and then another explanation of the rates i will say no matter how many times we go over the rates and the base units and her again there are always people who either don't understand it we're just fundamentally disagree don't like it we have to look at this that we can change it but any change will result in increased costs a water system i just want everybody to be clear on that take the system right now it is the one that provides credit at and digest them and be ready to his well next week next month if not next week please all right right now we're billing quarterly right and some folks of talk about they'd like to do it popular vote of the membership but i would say this point of order we might discuss to set or to be had next public meeting perhaps let me let me throw this up ok after christmas objection process what happens with people who are in arrears when we do i'm certainly chaplain water district the city of burlington has a process at a certain point certain things happen you know and then we have just one piece of the puzzle that i them off or we set up an agreement with them this is a copy of the three men they've agreed to pay a certain amount to pay off their balance based on the commission's rule that anybody that was more than three thousand as a year and anybody owes less than three thousand and six months this agreement that they sign it does say that it's understood that failure of the user to abide by the terms of this agreement in any way will result in a town team action under the chapter one twenty nine should abide by this agreement but there hasn't been any motion by the board as to what would you have us do when they don't pay based on their agreement so the latest in a motion from the board that either jeff or somebody provider tell manager with the authority to progress toward shut off on the delinquent accounts as indicated on the well the liquid accounts frankly can we do or do you need to do one by one no once they reach the ninety well stage part our plan is that for second second all  issues that we're not going to get to the scene one is the everyman with the railroad to use their right of way for the depot street water line but i'm not prepared to recommend that we call word of it since time is pressing on that because of our contractor i think  need to have an agreement with great gratitude for water pumps for his apartment up there on terra cover i don't explain that because it we have to own these pumps basically so then this is these governors right now they're just you know kick back if we discover we've made x amount over it a lot of money or whatever is there a possibility of people next bill currently thinking for richmond and then there's a specific task it's now and asked for action by the select for tonight so let me start with what's going on with the state after i don't know i think it's three years or so pace finally got rolled out for the first time in the state on september first i think there are seven towns who are up and running now and are taking in pace applications  efficiency vermont is the program administrator for those towns and i think for all towns that are that are considering pace and they're beginning to work out their rules and procedures i met with  and i've been talking with chris about you know how we should approach this from richmond and i think it's fair to say that it's our opinion that we're happy do you know have made it as far as we have with with pace it's that we're missing the first roll out because harry you know they're going to have to work through some issues procedures and and you know how to reach information before they can kind of make it  smooth process for for homeowners just as well to watch that have them try to figure that out i would very much like to work with linda parent with those and  to make sure that the procedures that are set up that she is comfortable with and that work for her and that to my mind the town clerk is really the face of this program you see is where many people will be coming to an implementation strategy where we figure out how to promote this program effectively to the residents of the town so that if it's used you know it's it's all for naught if if if nobody understands it or nobody wants to use it so what i'd like to ask of you guys today i think in your package you've been you've got a resolution that formally states that that richmond is get to work through those details then we would we could be set up for the next round which is likely sometime late winter early spring of next year so with that i thought i'd you know i try to answer as many questions if you have any questions and try not to take up too much of your time but i'm happy to answer any questions you might have yet it's thanks to phone them where in this is the order to get that you know in terms of getting it i think it's in the program administrative you know the program of ministration agreement and that's kind of what i'm on i'm not asking you to just sign that her say tonight i'd rather  one thing that the that efficiency vermont strongly encourages but doesn't require it so it is an energy audit and the thinking behind that is you know geez if i want to put on solar panels on my roof what do i really  need an energy audit and my personal opinion is i would say yes you know if you're going to spend ten thousand dollars or twenty thousand dollars on solar panels it's not going to hurt you to get an energy audit and might show you actually that you know that you might have a better investment investing in push a student to do the solar panels and so it would be rather than make it a recommendation you know one of things that i would encourage his considering it being  so but i think that that's a nuance that is far as the rest of the measures we're allowed to make things more stringent on in this program we're not allowed to make them not us you know so we can't say you know you don't need to do anything you can just you know get the money to get there there are specific eligibility measures and there's a whole list of things that are eligible for this financing mechanism one of things about you know that i'm just as happy to wait while they're ready to go what would ready to go meant is that when they had the final documentation ready which was like the first or second week of august they were looking for signed documents back from the town recommendation is that we take a slower than you know until we we think about it a little bit harder and and give folks some time to digest this before having somebody rush in and do it and then it be a disaster you know encourage him to you know kind of set the project up you got to kind of know what you want to borrow the money for you know so you got your advice what that is going to be having an energy audit done a really good thing to do have an energy audit done earlier gives you kind of a list of things that you might use financing for and you know kind of set you up for a novel now you know a project you want to do line up your contractors and this is just a way to finance it that's really what's all this program is about is is you know kind of an outreach and education plan i'll personally make a point of working with linda to make sure she's comfortable with the procedures i don't come back to report to you again before we have an effici right if you remember back in august the planning commission handed off a set of changes to the select board the selectors read that we would hold a public hearing this evening which is a mandatory public hearing prior to any further action by the square we're following the public hearing you could accept the changes makes more changes which would be rather which would require more interaction so there are three basic changes proposed one is related to section three point five point five which is the village commercial zoning district specifically in what we call the upper bridge treat law and this change them states that nuclear development is exempt from meeting the require number of parking spaces requirements just that nuclear development is exempt from meeting the required number of c changes are to new definitions in section seven point two one for driveway because these don't have a definition for driveway and second directory select board did wish to make a vote that you can adopt the bylaws during the meeting parcels those particular parcels have virtually no parking available within their own logs so most of the wind when there have been uses presented to the d r v in the last several years could be really hasn't had many options for wiring people to have parking when they can't do it on their own parcels there are provisions for shared parking facilities but it's really difficult in that location to require those as well so planning commission with input from  decided that this made good sense not to require those particular parcels to have parking spaces when they change uses and  and then see how things progress because there could come a time when there are some really more intense uses of come down the pike and then parking becomes a problem for everyone so it's in the other discussion safe to talk tonight ok you're holding a meeting sometimes these public hearings are special sessions but this is part of the regular business session so i think you're clear to adopt it tonight  including section three point five point five very good parking and the bridge street district we do them separately you want to speak to that's or five the abutting landowners you know that would have bought the trailer and i wish they were here but apparently they did they get apparently they don't want the trailer or anything of putting their property i guess in mind me concerns that i would say you know put out there to the towers it's not flatly in there as there certainly would be but i don't know what type of i don't know much about this but in terms of the lay of the lead in the drainage issues  in the town they always throw up in the future when a man in terms of we possibly connecting developments with a future bike path or something to that is that i think that's why it was present exactly right and so i don't know that we want to give up the right way on the other side and say you know to this isn't because there's nothing saying you have to do it but if you want to do the future then that work is done so you can see by the e mails that are distributed that we're having another financial issue with c t t a funding over the summer  that we're going to run out of money in four months unless we make some changes this particular medical patients will stop their trips in november but we're going to be mostly out of money for the rest of the year  is recommending that we restrict trips to two round trips better for trips from one anything else needs permission which means they would have to come contact me for approval to be able to qualify for that so that would essentially kick everybody else out that's been using social trips shopping trips and vocational trips which which is difficult right  the volunteer drivers greatly reduce the cost of the trips and really it's not if the trips are expensive there's not much we can do because share with the clientele that are talking over fifty dollars for a for a trip when they're paying one dollar an hour you could increase that slightly but it wouldn't make much of an impact there really these are the sisters programs for income qualified individuals and do you think it's a good idea to look at things decent and focus on medical because we know we can't pay for all  and if we get four months down the road and the money is gone then what right he just everybody exactly yeah i agree with that on the difficult one  time so i don't want to get into details about what i know but i would think that person would have to find another way to to get to work for you know whether how they figure that out whether it's better fits or other income or really don't  make the request and we consider it at that time serves a very particular need right probably not a very large audience and it's going to be subsidized to make it affordable to the right didn't quite honestly a couple people use most of the troops  more important well i think that if you ask the user they're going to say they're all important but we have to prioritize because of cost so you know it is it possible if someone has a medical trip that they're they then can you know walk to the store and then take another trip back i don't know but figuring that out because if they know that it's being bought maybe there is some responsibility for them it's just like the priorities here when we've got a real issue i mean it's a rule issue transportation it's an issue for us but it's unfortunate that this budget requires us to compromise on what seemed like a fairly i want to redirect the flight into program i'm confused about how it won't get us very well confused about how i don't understand this we can support an average of supplement so six hundred fifty dollars on flags is like that's quite a few trips well you know if you lost another hundred from the front paid for but they don't in well a number of towns right that's true and so they're telling us based on their experience i'm guessing what they're saying as are you suggest time well there they can they can tell you for the past two months you've had so many trips it's costing this much money there's nothing about that that's going to change right unless you change it right and historically our budget has been based on a fairly stable cutting off the others until we're totally out of money right then one more time where is the restriction that's recommended well as priority to medical troops first very thing else by permission only that makes us have to make decisions on whether we're going to accept the cost or not they will be able to manage the money we put it we could technically come up with more money if a hundred like i think last year we were under orders allotment than they want to cut you so it's that you can just build it in hoping you don't spend it because they'll take it back like so we need to get after fire about six six years ago six years ago and the things that they're the big three main things that stood out to me were the way they were able to develop the strategy right after the vision that was focused on jobs in the plant right there downtown and so yeah i think between the public support and vision and and and and  was it was a fire it was in the center of town that everybody could see the disaster did not have brown fields and it there was another thing that made it this it was easier than what we're looking at  very inexpensive the land was being sold at a very good price well they were good you have a g p i see to kind of broker that deal and then the other thing i think that really stands out is the way they use some financing once they had a developer redstone to to buy the building and rehab it the town applied for community development block grant money from the state that was waiting for approval from the railroad to proceed this afternoon i received an e mail from the railroad which was a permit to install the water line no one railroad property don't we have to do is pay the other two thousand eight hundred fifty dollars to be able to do that and i guess the first fee was for engineering review of our application and second fees actually get permission the good news is they're willing to  any question from the financial southward also from john there is a cell tower proposal for johnny brick road and on saturday the twenty first they're going to and this is another public service who are application but there are similar fashion is the one on the birth property there are going to seek planning commission and select board input and they're going to seek approval the project really but this one is a lot different because the facility to be fairly prominent above the tree line because the trees are sixty seven feet so that's why this balloon test is important so that people can see the balloon they'll get an idea they'll be looking at the top you know everybody bounces out from the town so like that they the eighteen t did the right thing they were well over there but this seems to be moving ahead they're they're going to come in with a proposal also  but what our concern is because it's a new territories that they do a balloon test and they finally agreed on the balloon test to be saturday september twenty first so they will also co i got a request that we asked the state to consider lowering the speed limit on route two through jonesville ostensibly due to the fast moving traffic through there subsequent to that when i put this on the agenda i also got an e mail from somebody said they really didn't want it to be lowered so i know that the person who made the initial request is here and  ledges on that courier was that this was going to become a graceful way and because you have now little antique shop the post office is still there you have the business across the road which is the motorcycle business who's actually to make sure there's double yellow lines right there that between atwood's development that's occurred across the road and other office in new houses right in that area that needs to be double blind so that our time passing right there so if you need folks in just one more folks to come forward i told him i would if something inside her doesn't want their speed reduced over closer to sniper him then that's not our that's not an issue for us at all it doesn't have to go that far it can be a lily pond staff request this just to have the state do that but my question is if the state doesn't survey or does what a traffic study that they do is based on an average of what cow cars are traveling on a daily basis  going over the speed limit this back through the ability to keep the speed at a higher level yes so if we're not forcing the speed in the area that we're looking to have a traffic study jaf to just execute the agreement so they can move on to the actual paperwork that's coming or the buyout that seventy is just basically they're setting money aside and agreeing that you're going to do something has been some discussion of that if there's a certain time period that caps go into effect and there still might be some grandfather who will do there so we will verify that with the federal government there was some confusion in that presentation about whether all the communities around the city firms went into effect already in the grandfather was ending because ours were rescinded and now the maps are going to go into effect for us there still might be some grandfather time period there for u and that's think communicating that the meeting that happened we're going to verify before anything is can you target we're not going to tease folks with a lot of them think be grandfathered we're going to find out more and know for sure on the different side of things just to let you know  today actually due to the information that was provided and compared to the two thousand and ten maps that were out there and i personally have good to sign off on the changes that were made and they give us a some that's the summary of all the letters of my amendments for all of them up a many minutes that the federal government is recognizing or doesn't recognize with them this map but allows us to recognize them and they recognize them as a validated also working with the i'm going to work with the planning commission and make recommendations on floodplain regulations to go along with these maps to accompany these maps because it's very very important for our community to realize that baseline elevations were only established on the river not the streams so johnny burke and all the other side aren't there's a lot of that base what elevations are not established which means a whole nother series of issues ok yes the politically you can get flood insurance and you get it at a lower rate so if you even think it's a possibility of being flooded then they recommend you pick up a flood insurance my  those people who didn't it's not mandatory anywhere they're getting a mortgage company the power to make you get it even if you're not in it even if they've got it wrong if you could but those folks who received the fema check that wasn't part of insurance those folks who were uninsured and received that instant check of thirty thousand two hundred dollars those that what we were told way back when that was going on was that they it was going to be mandatory that they then participate in the flood insurance program and i've seen no evidence of that yet so i'm not sure if jeff has anything different on that and that's one thing i'd like to look into and so where we go from here you get within thirty days i'm not sure maps it's open to the public to come in and look at them for your area and i recommend within the next thirty days anybody who wants to review the floodplain maps to please come in and look at them if there's no further effort anything else done i think we just send a wire that says it's good to go in the town's behalf and they do their letter a final determination from the federal government and it goes into effect six months exactly six months from that date so that's why jeff was thinking april or may i think we should also an open house if commercial use is twelve feet and they're proposing nine and a half for the entrance to the commercial part of this property it would not be in our best interest to prove that