comprehensive and very thorough gives you just gives you a good idea of what's going on in currently and also in the past number of years so it's a good reference also i gave you copies of the comm plan don't lose that we're going to be referring to that a lot here in the next year or two and probably our meetings will be dealing with a lot of comprehensive plan issues and  property the planning commission reviewed a few setbacks that did go to council and council did approve thirty five foot setbacks throughout the entire plane the properties are one sink our dash one a single family conventional they're proposing a half acre in larger subdivision that's a permitted use in the r one a zone the site is seventeen point six six acres in this zoning district we have  one point two density there right on the number twenty one lots of they're proposing twenty one lots the lots range in size from point five acres a half acre two point seven eight acres they're obligated to set aside one point four seven acres of open space there setting aside one point six five acres of open space and read swing will go into detail on that just some key that planning commission needs to be aware of here is phasing in red swing will get into however phasing in and creating the site as part of plain council's approval of the thirty five foot setbacks at the recommendation of playing a commission you know we heard that moving the set back up thirty five feet would preserve trees we need to nail down where that tree preservation is exactly and what that tree preservation mean i suggested some limitations in our report we need to fine tune that plan for recording final construction drawings tonight is a key approval that they need before they can move on to the final plan stage other than that target of red swing unless you have any questions larger i think the key thing to point out with with this development is that we we are looking to make what had lots everything about this plan has been designed to allow a minimize disturbance we started out with a property that has a nice wood coverage on it fair amount of trees and nicely spaced so we wanted to preserve as much of that as possible maintain a wooded  kind of secluded atmosphere for the residents so in that in that respect what we did we set up the plan so that it would be built in two phases the first phase of construction the road out and also create some pads to start building houses on just to get the ball now these two then will be as lots are sold houses are decided upon in construction starts so what we've done is faced each lot separately the n s is done for each lot as they as they'll be build phase one together a tree conservation plan township council no structure shall be constructed within the tree preservation easement only dead and dying diseased and damaged trees that pose a safety hazard shall be removed from the tree preservations so we try to get that pretty nailed yes the truth reservation easement is in your plans we see two point six the core of what the d p is looking for in terms of storm water management managing in small pockets around the site so we avoid the need for a large storm water management facility we do have one from a property  down in this area it's a shallow structure really just geared towards controlling the last amount of runoff as it comes down off the site we do propose there's there's two drainage areas for the property and we've got  a ridge pretty much straight down through this intersection through the property so you have one drainage shed going this way one going this way we collect the roof drains for these houses in underground tanks and then a small berm system along the back of the properties will control the rest of the runoff minimizing runoff to the adjacent properties likewise these areas were able to be controlled a little bit more overland and then conveyed down to the storm water detention facility at the entrance within this storm or measuring area it's difficult to see here we've got a prevailing area for community picnics and anybody who within the within the community wants to utilize it we're just trying to provide some outdoor space and we have some  conservation areas we've got a large conservation area here and then another one back behind these properties here again maximizing as much of the tree line that we can through here much of these properties still have a lot of tree line before you can get into the conservation easement which is roughly about right here so you can see we've got a fair amount of trees in backyards trying to keep that wo buffer is as large as possible we've incorporated for traffic controlling some islands here the intersections down at the main entrance and we've also got speed on each leg ways the properties right now the we've done masquerading each property however at the time of construction for building permit purposes each lot will be fine graded based on the design within this plan and the final house location will be said based on the bad location the driveway location and whatever the house footprint is that the owner decides  in the roadways first and foremost get all the utilities in that way as construction happens on the properties those are really contained to each individual lot what we've done is we've provided  the contractor with earthwork numbers so that we know we've got a lot of high side low side locks so this is the hillside these locks are all higher than the road these logs in these lots are all lower than the road created a good condition of cut fill also allows us to balance if somebody should want to purchase a lot number nine here that's going to be a primarily cut law and we have the earth word numbers to know ok if we cut this lot we need that much dirt here and here so we can kind of leapfrog as construction occurs creating pads as lots are also being sold and keeping the balance through the earthwork and construction process one question i have is on the you were talking about the tree preservation easement i guess the question is what does the individual property owner see on there is typically when you're buying a property you're in you know a view of your property one house on it what will they see will these these conditions requirements that the worst go in are will they be listed on that they will be as well as their within the a documents for the property or for the entire development so that it's it will be in multiple locations to kind of indicate to them where that limit of clearing is as we produce plans for each lot there's easements will be plotted on those plans and in the language going along with what they can and cannot remove because some have have conveyance of stormwater across them and features like that as well so we have easement set up for drainage for  the that information all those requirements in the record documents and i guess it's important we're calling these moments so that's going to somewhat fly what do you know if it's shown as an easement it hopefully draws attention to it so the program looks into it if they've got a concern with  get questions from the open space provided one point six five acres is that the entirety of the conservation easement or is there that this some of this conservation area here in this conservation area here it does not take in this is a chip away set aside areas well but we're not including that need open space calculation the open space calculation only considers this wooded lot in this partially wood a lot here we do have that tre preservation conservation easement around the back through what fifteen sixteen seventeen eighteen correct yeah yeah and that's that's above and beyond what the conservation areas are could you pull up your conservation plan there s my question was i'm looking at some of the storm water management that we have in the rear there in particular the berm as well some of the  coverage out there allows for small quitman to place the berms at the locations within the tree line the trees are well spaced throughout the site there's some underbrush but primarily it's open enough that we can leave the trees in place and get small bobcat type equipment into place the berms the berms don't need to be heavily compact and they're really supposed to the slope in the location where they're being installed but we've got roughly four feet up or down slope and six feet up sort of in are we concerned about the ponding that's on the upstream i guess of the burr this far as preservation of tr considering two year at a hundred year storm polling behind we do have some ponding it's difficult again to see on here there's some ponding here and you can see the line here for ponding there infiltration tests have been done through the geotagged we do have it's a minimal infiltration as is typical with most of western pennsylvania and we do have some control structures with this portion of the berm back here  but primarily that that area there is an existing depression in this corner which we were on the day after a very very heavy storm it's it's right in the solid drainage area should have had water in it and there was no pond water so the area seems to be draining fairly well we will look into the possibility along this edge through comments with conservation district the possibility of putting in under drain a small under drain system just to help make sure that it doesn't clog up in will incorporate help incorporate the water into the soil a little better and the third area was in between the houses there we have the articles coming from the road as well speaking of drainage from the underground we do have a little bit coming down through here  we can come up with the real issue here tonight get us there was we in in all the situations we were the grading did create the houses above where the outfall was however was downhill drainage wise there was a swale of sorts but through discussions we decided to head off kind of future concerns by homeowners that walk out their front door and can see where the pipe is discharging we just pull them back so that they're a little more towards the rear of the house little less visible  and definitely down stream of the house structure itself the that process has kind of extended some lives into the tree conservation area where we believe over here here here or within the context of this one is more of a diversion it's outside the conservation  mike my primary concern is that we talked about conserving some other acres for trees and what have you right now kind of a road in that total area through infiltration berms of me i know that we're going to try to fish that through just in trees but to make it work properly we have to most bonding would occur so we do have kind of a fringe area along the upper edges here that you know we can certainly utilize those locations as repel replanting locations if need be property we've street trees proposed throughout each lot will be landscaped accordingly at the time of construction but it's difficult to show the landscaping for a property when we don't know the house it's going to go on  sacs come down this way or cross walk here then all the way down to where the bus stop can be at the end of the drive we're looking at boyer road being cable to the bus being able to pull off of stop on boy or out of traffic pick up any students and then continue on who want to try and utilize it we had discussions in the beginning whether or not to utilize be hard boy or road or just connect directly to the bow to eliminate that extension seemed like a safer route lisa for student use and then also just for entrance into the development kind of gets people to off the the main road before turning into development so we chose to leave the boy or road extension through there again sidewalks around and down the whole property is successful that way we have connection to this conservation easement comes down between these properties we have a twenty foot connection right away so also a small easement follows up actually is this one's not an easement this is property it's associated with the conservation area back here then access to this conservation area can come off a boy or road and there's another easement for potential walkway or path concerns i have with putting sidewalks in all the plants you know that all the developments that we look at but the property owners are required to maintain those sidewalks and in case one of the main insists no removal in the way does this is laid out if you look at that property owner number three i think has shown error sensually there's a good hundred or you know there's a section of that sidewalks that it's in the back of his yard yet so we're saying according to your warden says he's required to go out there within twenty four hours and shovel any snow or ice off that sidewalk and remove it same thing with number four he's got a pretty good length of sidewalk that goes children are going to have to potentially use those sidewalks and again look at this plan that looks nice when you look at it but keep in mind we lack is it ten percent grade so it's a fairly steep roadway in the sidewalks or that have a pretty steep grade going down so we have ice and snow build up on it it could be a liability and again that property owners going to assume that live building with those species again we're saying it's their responsibility if it's not me tain  somebody slips and falls on so again i'm not saying that i'm in you know you need to take them on a think it looks good on a play but i think there's a lot of life building that goes with them that i it again on this plan we don't have i think i'd i think here you're probably just a safer if not safer walking on the street and you're on the sidewalks now if it's a connector on your lawn through traffic that's a different issue i think the sidewalks are you know why here i just baited that's all right where we zoomed in there's a potential a peep out form whatever developed this plan you know could have an inner connection to that that's what that area is designed to do at some point the future number two the developer could have the sidewalks be maintained by the h l a make that part of the h l a document and three you know this conservation district does a ten foot clearance from any water any building wall the locations that we show on the plans are assumed locations at this point and they will be adjusted as as the homes are in the final grading is done we will kind of move them around a little bit make sure there is enough clearance at this point what i would have done is use the assumed impervious coverage and you know a conservative maximum impervious coverage to design the do we have any concerns about the impact the additional traffic on border road is the is for ruth this point and granted though it's only a spur it's in a condition sufficient that we're not worried that the additional traffic's going to cause of the excessive word terror anything like that only going construction it will make that ball that i think once we get through construction i don't think we have an issue we recently paved did not too long ago it's not at the right of way so that there's access and i think goes you should put on the planners your suggestion in that area some notation that specifically says right of way for future access so that we do better there on this we're talking about moving you know swaths of area not from the conservation here but at least in polling to remove areas from the protection of the conservation easement during construction  everything either one of those little bit tricky because you know who's going to who's going to want to go out there in countries because i guess the question is sometimes it takes a tree two or three years to die after it's been damage so i mean where we  provision in the plan or any condition that requires a developer to places at the end of the day you end up the same situation you would have if you let the developer clear and that's what we're trying to avoid exactly yeah yeah thing you could do is have a inspection on completion that you'll deal with any damage in then and then leave something some language in there that you know we're here to afterwords if if you know the gradi don't know that being said i guess probably what makes the most sense is and i was that we can do this the springtime news of an arborist or maybe planning staff goes out and catalogues what's there now and what's already dead and i think  we're headed no i think most of it can be handled at the at the final play and stage and in as part of the construction inspection we can document and catalog and figure we're not going to be doing utility work there we're we really know where there's concern areas are going to where the utilities are going to hear here where some of the terms of slopes are going to be so we can really focus that our burst report if you will on those locations and really get a fine detailed stablished you know kind of starting point when construction is done as to what's gone on going on there what's been damaged what might just be dead of natural causes and then that would give a baseline for something to be looked at two years later so that reasonable to look at for the most part i think we won't have too much of extended slopes there's not many locations where we are bridging any kind of channelization or anything like that  i will say just kind of for your own point of reference the line we shown on the plan is approximately a six foot wide five or six foot one line way so we i did put that on to also consider is you know this sales sales pitch if you will of the development is what it lots so the homeowner is going to in some sense they're going to be nineteen which includes the satisfying of these comments and their favorite eighteenth letter as well as any additional comments you may have kind of generated through this discussion here  in addition to that would be that we come through at a later date through final play and the criteria to call surveying the existing trees and then ratios for replace and why don't we revise condition three to remove the phrase poses see the hazard so would you say only their dying disease or damage trees shall be removed i don't want someone making an argument that there are tree doesn't pose a safety hazard  documents i think we should add the documents clearly defined megan's responsibility for common areas being stormwater management area median iowans entryway feature anything else that i'm missing in there we need to make sure that there is a sure way documents clearly define for the conservation areas too are going to be privately owned as well so that i think we should just define the age you go into a dark and clearly defined common areas that behind it which is a good thing the dish and spaces this patio which will ultimately have seventy five seats on it generates a need for twenty five additional parking spaces they have sixty one more than their  into the wall so that you can get to the patio area from the restaurant i don't want anyone entering from outside here but obviously you will have an emergency exit somewhere out here so you're not going to  where the citizens bank everything is located so around the entire perimeter we would like to install six or seven for high probably bamboo are going for like a beach sort of thing so that no one is tempted to sit on this wall and topple over the edge also the dumpsters for the rest of the class are right over here so it are really just being closed you won't really be able to see  the dumpsters or there won't be any danger of anyone falling out of the area or act like i said i don't want anybody able to enter that way without coming through the restaurant  the patio will be just repaving any thing that's not even putting the wall on the outside so i don't think it's a huge time to huge timetable i have to get my liquor license approved which i had an interview municipalities plane does allow for a plane commission to be up to nine members we've been five ever since i've been here twenty five plus  years a member of council has suggested that the township consider pumping it up from five to seven that concern was raised because of increasing the membership would prequel are a zoning ordinance amendment which would have to come through planning commission and be approved by council increasing it from five to seven would also increase the minimum needed for quorum from three to four council was requesting the planning commission review this you give council your opinions thoughts and position from going from five to seven i did hear from mr mills and mr branstad are they weighed in and i've tried to summarize what they both think that going from five to seven would be difficult to manage from a discussion standpoint at meetings mr mills feels that everything is working fine the way it is it's a fairly new composition on planning commission he thinks we should give it a chance to see if it's working mr branstad or said that we have a diverse group of planning commissioners in terms of their backgrounds and age ranges it encourages a de verse perspective on issues basically with mr mills and mr brand they were saying is that they feel that everything's fine give it a chance that the they are not not necessarily in your dream and at this time that we go from five to seven i agree with that as well and i has a sad day as you don't look back over the last three years has it been an issue have we i know one case we had an issue and it was it was an odd case were we didn't have a quorum and had to cancel the meeting but the only time i can remember in twenty five plus years we had to cancel one meeting because we didn't have a quorum i will say that this agenda would have included fieldstone subdivision if mr branstetter could have made it to night it would have been on this gender but he could not make it so we could not ha that then as a small side i mean i'd like to be in the lynchpin here that's kind of causing the the issue i guess but most of the problems that come in from my current been residential i work primarily on the commercial side and that is really whole the water but just some some background on on my expertise and where i've kind of been if it's causing more of more issues than good and i would have any problem kind of stepping out but that's you know something we can talk about well the only thing i would say is we may want to do is get interpretation of where there is actually a potential conflict because i do not miss syria agree it's a conflict of it's just somebody else you know in the firm that's working on it that creates it creates you know automatic conflict and i'm and i even like again we can do that yeah i just think we ought to this clear  kluge yourself but if you have no involvement of it i'm not so sure i don't know the answer yeah and i mean the last thing i want to do is ever you know blur the line for of perception in here that i'm commenting on plans that which i may be benefiting from from a financial standpoint so i would never want to do that not the goal here remember this commission because i live in peace township because  consensus is sounds like it's pretty unanimous consensus here we have we've been getting beat up pretty good over an issue relative to we have in peter's township we have a couple areas in peters where we have a we recently contacted by one of the property owners who would deny refinancing cars in this is the year this this is one of the areas so one can leave behind that's why the the bank was saying hey we can't refinance this because you're not in conforming and if it would be key image to seventy five percent you could rebuild it so we have this area in we  i think it would even work if we made a special exception or condition if that were the case then you know if it would be damaged beyond seventy five percent of its cost of my practice and i think the reason for it is obviously banks are a lot more gunshots and they were ten or fifteen years ago we know how much land that zone or two in this township is still vacant because my concern is if we were to amend the zoning ordinance to make a single family home permit in new york to destroy it and we're sort of defeating the purpose of your to do is absolutely and i agree with you in right now can you just  distribute certificate of nonconformance that only permits them to continue the use of the house and zones out and there's a vast difference down here not really any different position than you would be in this circumstance you know yeah i guess i'd have a question if it was if we could work with a special exception with the banks i don't know the engine to find out the answer to that they may still have a problem with that because then they're saying well that doesn't guarantee that we can rebuild we still would have to smooth your approval i'll find out the answer to that and in looking at the future land use map in the car plan and there is an even we get a mixed residential there's an even  multifamily district proposed in future a difference to the folks that  have existing scene for you right not only might i need to check with the bangs then i was dealing with whether or not special exception or conditional use would satisfy their the conforming preexisting use and you have the permit right to maintain it because you don't i mean the whole concept of the non conforming preexisting use which amazingly these going dollar houses are i guess for they would be considered not good for in bridges to use as and when else could you d you can't make it again so i guess the question is it would become an issue if somebody wanted to press a court on it what the judge would have to decide whether the house burning down is sufficient to terminate the use so i see exactly they understand was this something just from my own knowledge that was created after that homeowner purchased a home or was it something that may have been