morning the committee will come to order welcome to today's hearing venezuela's sanctionable activity this is a joint hearing between the oversight committee's national security homeland defense and foreign operations subcommittee the foreign affairs subcommittee on western hemisphere and the foreign affairs subcommittee on the middle east and south asia we are joined today by the chairmen of those subcommittees chairman connie mack of florida and chairman steve chabot of ohio i would also like to welcome ranking member tierney of massachusetts ranking member  of new york mister sires of new jersey will be sitting in for the ranking member engel today thank you all for being here today we are examining the administration's policies to conduct national security threats abroad through the use of sanctions for the past decade the united states has focused much of its attention on the middle east since the attacks americans have invested over a trillion dollars fighting the wars in iraq and afghanistan since two thousand and one six thousand and seventy two americans have died in operations enduring freedom iraqi free dom and new dawn another forty four thousand two hundred and sixty six have been injured in afghanistan alone these numbers have risen dramatically since our current president took office in two thousand and nine wednesday evening president obama announced the intent to withdraw thirty  right thing to do based on the facts and not because it is convenient while we combat terrorism in the middle east we must not neglect threats that we face in our own hemisphere in recent years venezuela has grown significantly closer to regimes that are openly hostile to the united states and its interests venezuela has been a willing partner to countries such as iran syria north korea and cuba with the exception of north korea each of these countries has been designated as a state sponsor of terrorism by the united states government senior officials within the venezuelan government have also provided material support to hezbollah a terrorist organization they have also maintained ties with the revolutionary armed forces of colombia farc eln and available should we continue to impose anemic sanctions that are merely cosmetic or should we impose sanctions that truly impact venezuela's ability to threaten the united states of america before we begin that analysis i want to express my deep frustration with the administration time and again this administration has frustrated the work of this subcommittee by refusing to provide witnesses it has requested instead it insults this body by sending only witnesses it believes are appropriate it does so wit hout any regard to the judgment and prerogative of elected representatives this congress and especially the oversight and government reform committee has a constitutional obligation to oversee the management efficiency and operations of the executive branch  is without question and without exception at the same time this administration has a responsibility to provide information the american people seek through their representatives this critical check and balance is designed to ensure that the federal government does not overstep its boundaries and adheres to the will of the people when the executive branch does not respond appropriately to congressional inquiries it breaches the duty of the american people this is the third time that congress has attempted to hold this hearing on the first two occasions the administration either refused to provide any witnesses or claimed it had too little time to prepare it is unacceptable that the administration requires more than two weeks to formulate a thought about a matter it studies and briefs to executive branch leaders and policymakers on a regular basis it is equally unacceptable that the administration did not submit written testimony for today's hearing until late yesterday the administration had over three weeks to prepare testimony for this hearing and have known about this topic for nearly three months it is unacceptable that the administration was  unable to adhere to our simple forty eight hour deadline by submitting testimony at the last possible minute perhaps this committee should investigate the management and efficiency of the executive branch in this regard i look forward to hearing from our panel of witnesses about the success and challenges they face this subcommittee is ready to work with the departments in any way possible we do appreciate your being here today but understand the frustration of this committee in not being able to do its work because you are unable to do your work  thank the witnesses for being here today as well we all are familiar with the two thousand and ten comprehensive iran sanctions the accountability and disinvestment act of two thousand and ten and we also understand the secretary has made a finding that gasoline sales have been us today a full appreciation of how much we have discussed these diplomatic priorities for that region what are our goals how is it exactly that we think we are going to be able to accomplish them and what will the current sanctions do to drive us toward those goals and what would any additional do toward moving in that direction and how should they be structured and we have to understand the impact of any ramping up of sanctions before we start moving in that direction so i think it is a good time for that conversation i think that hopefully between the four of subcommittee on western hemisphere the gentleman from florida mister mack for his opening statement mister mack thank you mister chairman i want to associate myself with your opening statement and also the statement of the ranking member before i begin into my formal roadblock and just flat out refusal and i hope this serves as a warning that next time we ask you to come in front of the subcommittee you will come because either you will come there you are going to come here and if we have to use our subpoena power we will do it so let's not go through this circus another time okay today in light of the u s state department's recent actions in sanctioning pdvsa the purpose of this hearing is to review and better understand the role of the state department and treasury department in utilizing sanctions as an instrument of u s foreign policy specifically i would like to concentrate on the sanctions available under u s law and discuss their potential application in cases where venezuelan individuals businesses and the government are able to be sanctioned venezuela has become the wild west under thugocrat hugo chavez this is true for the following reasons first there is rampant drug trafficking and corruption second terrorist organizations like  are officially linked to government officials and third venezuela is supporting iran and iran's desire for a nuclear weapon under hugo chavez venezuela has become a hub in our region for money laundering and transshipment of illicit goods in recent years the relationship between drug trafficking and terrorist organizations has become closely intertwined if you will notice up on the screen we have the  definition from the state department of what a state sponsor of terrorism is and i will let you read that on your own it is widely acknowledged that terrorist groups have turned to drug trafficking as a source of revenue and if we can put up this is what it looks like in two thousand and seven unfortunately we can't show the slides from today because those are still protected and classified but the difference between two thousand and three and this map is in two thousand and five hugo chavez kicked out our dea as chavez has provided venezuela as a safe haven for these narcoterrorists the farc a drug trafficking and terrorist organization who largely operates in remote sections of colombia have long received assistance relief and material support from venezuelan authorities and i think this is pretty well documented when colombia took out  s and they took the computers interpol was able to review those hard drives and found significant cooperation with officials from venezuela the venezuelan government and the far clearly if we go back to the definition of state sponsor of terrorism you can check that box off that there is a close tie and relationship between terrorist organizations and the government in venezuela i also want to then extradited to colombia makled has said over and over again and also talked about payments to government officials in venezuela so the drug trafficking organizations know that they have a friend in hugo chavez we also as i talked about know that there is a relationship between the farc and hezbollah and the treasury has sanctioned members of the  venezuelan government for their relationship in venezuela lastly i want to talk about venezuela and iran after many discussions and not until a hearing when i was able to supply the state department with specific evidence of the shipment and sale of gasoline we finally sanctioned venezuela unfortunately those sanctions have no teeth the things that you sanctioned we currently aren't engaged in with venezuela in the first place so on one hand i am thankful that we actually did put sanctions on venezuela it is a good start but this is a guy who his revolution as that of the poor majority against the wealthy oligarch he continues to impose an authoritarian populist political model in venezuela undermining democratic institutions and stifling the freedoms of the venezuelan people the government has systematically undermined journalists freedom of expression workers freedom of association and the ability of human rights groups to promote human rights completely disenchanting all civic engagement within the country  official harassment and intimidation of the political opposition has grown including the persecution of elected state and local government officials and media outlets such as global vision and rctv international that have been critical of the government internationally chavez continues to cultivate relationships with countries that are state sponsors of terrorism like cuba iran and syria i cannot emphasize enough how troubling the relationship between venezuela and iran is with weekly flights that connect iran and syria with caracas collaboration between these two countries has hit a new height i have often discussed before the western hemisphere subcommittee my concerns about these flights and i hope that representatives from the state department can elaborate on this topic as well as acknowledge the threat this poses both to the united states and the free nations i commend the state department for its most progress that has been already made and further embolden his populist agenda we must continue to make smart decisions in regards to u s policy towards venezuela to further disable chavez's control and to encourage citizens to support democratic institutions and principles recently chavez's influence seems to have peaked but we must remain vigilant for he is likely to support like minded political allies and movements in neighboring countries that seek to undermine moderate governments he continues to oppose nearly every u s policy initiative in the region including the expansion of free trade counterdrugs and counterterrorism cooperation in the regional security initiatives venezuela continues to extend a lifeline to colombian narcotrafficking organizations by providing significant support and safe haven along the border and it remains one of the most preferred trafficking routes for the transit of cocaine out of south america u s sanctions h gentleman from ohio mister chabot mister chabot thank you mister chairman i want to thank my two fellow chairmen for putting together this important hearing i know chairman mack and the western hemisphere staff have been trying to hold this hearing for some have met with considerable resistance from the administration and i commend my colleague for his persistence as chairman of the middle east and south asia subcommittee i and the other folks on the committee frequently confront the threats posed by iran and global terrorist networks more globally especially of course in the middle east the possibility however of an iranian venezuelan alliance is particularly  concerning when not oppressing its own people the tyrannical regime in tehran devotes a great deal of its energy to threatening american national security as well as the security of our allies in the region the threat posed by iran takes on a new and more ominous geostrategic significance when coupled with the potential of an iran base of operations in our own hemisphere this prospect harkens back to the days of the cold war when all of a sudden we were no longer separated from our enemies by oceans but faced threats in our own backyards although the nature of the threat may have changed such a situation is just as unacceptable today as it was decades ago i hope that the witnesses today can shed light on the nature of this threat more importantly however i hope they can outline a clear and cogent policy to address it one of the most fundamental roles of government is to provide for the security of its citizens we are having enough trouble combating iranian meddling and dismantling terrorist safe havens on the other side of the globe the last thing we need is for threats from bad actors even closer to the american homeland again i want to thank my fellow chairmen and also the ranking members  but perhaps in the subcommittee there was a problem i don't know in any event we are glad you are here each sovereign nation has the right to develop alliances beneficial to its national interests but not at the expense of its neighbors that is the connected to the government of iran example iran backed hezbollah has actually undertaken illicit activities in the tri border area of argentina brazil and paraguay the terrorist group has profited from film piracy and drug trafficking association eight of the nine original arrest warrants issued for that bombing were for iranian government officials though iran and venezuela have been linked since the founding of opec in one thousand nine hundred and sixty the two countries recently strengthened that conviasa it is unclear who or what is being transported but reports indicated that the flights do carry weapons for terrorists these developments are troubling enough they are further complicated by iran's audacity in the nuclear energy development and there have been mixed reports signaling a possible iranian assistance to venezuela in its search for uranium deposits the iran venezuela relationship is even more troubling because venezuela serves as a diplomatic conduit for iran playing an important part in cultivating a relationship between iran and the latin american countries of bolivia ecuador and nicaragua venezuela's involvement with iran is a cause for concern and illegal activities in both hemispheres that have been directly linked to the iranian government and i welcome today's hearing to explore that further and to look at u s diplomatic options with regard to this troubling and growing relationship with that i yield back thank you mister chairman mister chaffetz thank you we will now recognize the gentlewoman from schmidt thank you mister chairman for holding this very important hearing i don't think it should be any surprise to anyone that there is a special link between venezuela and iran and perhaps it should be no surprise that hugo chavez is aggressively working to strengthen his countries ties with iran if you look at just what has occurred in the last seven years i think the facts spe ak for themselves in two thousand and six venezuela integrated itself with iran by aligning with cuba and syria as the only countries to vote against the u n atomic energy agency resolution reporting iran to the security council for its failures to comply with u n sanctions to terminate its nuclear program in april of two thousand and eight iran and venezuela signed a pact of mutual military support in april two thousand and nine the two countries inked an agreement that would create a development bank whereby each country would invest one hundred dollars million for bilateral economic development projects in october two thousand and ten the two countries signed eleven mutual cooperation agreements on such issues  trade energy shipping finance and public housing according to an article published in the german newspaper die welt in november of two thousand and ten one of the agreements signed between iran and venezuela in october of two thousand and ten a military base on venezuelan soil to be jointly operated by both countries on which medium ranged missiles would be placed on may th two thousand and eleven die welt further reported that chavez met with the commander of the iranian revolutionary guard's air force in february of two thousand and eleven to discuss the final details of the construction of the missile base which now is being built only seventy five miles from the venezuelan colombian border i the russian international news agency reported that russia which signed a deal with iran in two thousand and seven to sell its five battalions of sophisticated air defense systems would abrogate the agreement due to the new u n sanctions that now  been imposed against iran it is believed that russia may now sell the air defense systems to venezuela how convenient who in turn could sell them to iran just recently on may th two thousand and eleven the united states  sanctions on venezuela's state owned oil company the pdvsa for assisting iran in its production of gasoline and petroleum production specifically the pdvsa was sanctioned for selling fifty dollars million worth of petroleum products to iran between december for u s government procurement contracts from securing finance from export import bank of the united states and from obtaining u s import licenses mister chairman i applaud the department of state for its decision to impose these sanctions unfortunately it is not enough we need to do more every venezuelan company doing business with iran should be investigated and a determination should be made as to whether it is in violation of the one thousand nine hundred and ninety six sanctions act in those instances where venezuelan companies are in violation of the act sanctions should be imposed immediately we need to show chavez that we are serious and that there will be penalties to pay for assisting and accommodating the terrorist iranian regime of mohammed ahmadinejad thank you and i of providing sanctions to those countries that violate our laws as well as international laws i think we have gotten to the point that we have become sanctionitis just about everything we do we put sanctions we put sanctions and i have my own serious questions about the consistency of how we apply our foreign policies when we apply sanctions against countries i am not suggesting that we don't put sanctions on venezuela but there seems to be a whole bunch of contradictions  here we put sanctions and yet i believe venezuela is one of our biggest suppliers of oil coming to our country and i am very curious from our witnesses if you can give us more information on the subsidiary of citgo i believe that currently is one of the biggest distributors of oil in our country it seems to me that every time we put sanctions but as long as there are holes in between allowing these countries to obtain whatever their needs are the sanctions become somewhat useless but i am very very curious and want to hear from our witnesses this morning in terms of how our whole fabric of applying sanctions have really been effective or have they just been another sanction and another thing a constant contradiction as you know m indicated when sometime goes wrong we put sanctions against thailand against fiji all these and yet at the same time we waive sanctions when musharraf by a military coup took over pakistan for some ten years despite the promises that he made that we were supposed to have a democracy in that country and that never happened but i am looking forward to hearing from our witnesses in terms of where exactly venezuela comes in as far as the whole host of sanctions that we put against this country i will say interestingly enough the close ties of venezuela and iran has because of the nuclear issue i believe that what happened in japan recently has caused mister chavez to have second thoughts about establishing a nuclear relationship with iran but i do look forward to hearing from our w delare is the director for terrorism finance and economic sanctions policy at the state department mister kevin whitaker is the acting deputy assistant secretary for western hemisphere affairs at the state department and mister adam to five minutes your entire written statement will be made as part of the record we will now go ahead and recognize mister benjamin mister benjamin thank you very much sir distinguished members of the committees thank you for the global efforts to counterterrorism developments in venezuela over the last decade have been deeply troubling instead of meeting his international obligations since coming to power in one thousand nine hundred and ninety nine hugo chavez has chosen to develop close relations with iran and syria both state sponsors of terrorism senior members of his government are directly implicated in providing support to u s designated foreign terrorist organizations particularly the farc and the eln the administration has significant concerns about connections between members of the venezuelan government and eta as well all of these issues have been reported on in the press and as we have reported in the past hezbollah has a presence in venezuela and the department of treasury has  to reveal these connections i do however want to emphasize that the information available to us indicates that hezbollah activity in venezuela is limited to fundraising we remain alert to indications of other activities particularly operational activity but to efforts these resolutions adopted under chapter vii of the u n charter require all states including venezuela to take a series of measures to combat terrorism and prevent weapons of mass destruction and their means of delivery from getting into the hands of terrorists i view that venezuela has not done enough in this regard the obama administration is pursuing a policy to press venezuela to change its behavior our approach is about effectiveness we are ratcheting up the pressure in a way that our analysis suggests will be most effective we are increasing the cost on the chavez government for its actions including by publicly exposing our conclusions about that government's activities we are carefully avoiding falling into the trap of providing chavez with an opening to increase his nationalist sentiment by falsely attempting to turn this into a bilateral issue with the united states rather than what it is venezuela's failure to live up to its international obligations with respect to counterterrorism we believe this approach combined with regional efforts to moderate venezuela's behavior is slowly but surely bringing positive change imaginative and effective colombian diplomacy has taken advantage of this environment since president santos took office a year ago we have seen a marginal but significant improvement by venezuela venezuela has arrested and deported to colombia seven senior members of the farc and eln including members of the farc headquarters section and the farc's key european fundraiser most recently venezuela arrest  calling for that organization to join a political reconciliation process and by disavowing as unauthorized any discussions between venezuelan government officials and the farc about establishing bases in venezuela our actions have been targeted ntiterrorist and efforts country because of its inadequate response to our counterterrorism efforts the effect of this listing is a prohibition against the sale or licensing for exports to venezuela defense articles or services this sanction is a useful tool in itself and for signaling that we are not satisfied with venezuela's counterterrorism cooperation and it is used when a state may not meet the high threshold for designation as a state sponsor of terrorism we have also employed an array of targeted sanctions against elements of chavez's government my colleagues from the department of the treasury and our economic and energy affairs bureau will explain the work we have done to target elements of the venezuelan government via the drug kingpin act via executive order thirteen t and the comprehensive iran sanctions accountability and divestment act of two thousand and ten much more work remains to be done and we will continue to closely monitor venezuela's actions we you know secretaries of state have used the state sponsor of terrorism action sparingly since and seventy nine in fact it has been more than eighteen years since this power has been invoked but this does not mean that we are unwilling to use this authority all options are on the table including designating venezuela as a state sponsor if the circumstances warrant we look forward to working with congress and with our partners in the region to further encourage venezuela to behave as a responsible international actor thank you very much mister chaffetz thank you it is my understanding that given that there are three witnesses from the state department that there was going to be just one single statement or are we doing individual statements as well did i have that right there is just the one statement mister benjamin no my colleagues also have brief state chairman i appreciate the opportunity to appear here today with my colleagues in the bureau of economic energy and business affairs at the state department we have responsibility for the implementation of sanctions targeting iran's energy sector naturally we also have very serious concerns about venezuela's relationship with iran in this area venezuela is iran's closest political ally in the western hemisphere as we have heard this morning president chavez continues to define iran as a strategic ally highly publicized bond between mister ahmadinejad and chavez has led to declarations about broad economic military and political cooperation although the extent of actual cooperation is not clear under the comprehensive iran sanctions and divestment act or cisada the state department is the agency primarily responsible for implementing the provisions which relate to the energy shipping transportation sectors and sensitive telecommunications technology non proliferation and human reformate an additive used in gasoline to the national iranian oil company these shipments were valued at over fifty dollars million well above sanctionable thresholds established in isa under the iran sanctions act or isa the secretary has the authority to calibrate sanctions on a case by case basis something that many of you have alluded to this morning sanctions can range from prohibitions on certain types of u s government assistance to a complete blocking of all property transactions subject to u s jurisdiction in the case of pdvsa the secretary chose three sanctions that limit pdvsa's activities in the united states but do not impact their subsidiaries or the export of crude does not stop and we have seen no evidence of any further actions since the imposition of these sanctions we have made it very clear in our conversations with them that we reserve the right to impose additional and more severe sanctions in the case of pdvsa we do not know what the ultimate result of these important actions will be we are confident however that we have their attention based on comments from pdvsa and venezuelan government officials the department of state has a very good record of convincing companies to stop supporting iran's energy sector last fall we secured the formal withdrawal from iran of five large multinational energy companies royal dutch shell  all removed themselves from projects in iran these firms have since been joined by scores of other companies both in the energy sector and in other sectors who have simply recognized that the risks of doing business with iran are just too high will continue our dialogue with venezuela about this subject and we will continue a very vigorous outreach process that we have engaged in to talk to the business community worldwide about the risks of doing business with iran i should not inksna provides for penalties on entities that engage in the transfer to or acquisition from iran syria or north korea of equipment or technology controlled by one of the four multilateral regimes that is the australia group the missile technology sanctionable behavior as we see them so at the conclusion of statements i would be happy to address any questions you might have thank you very much mister chaffetz thank you i want to go back to this point though for a moment here the three representatives from the state department issued one complex coordination both within the department and across agencies there was a great deal of work that needed to be done in preparation for this hearing we wanted to have the best information available we will certainly do our best to make sure that we meet your deadlines in the chairman ranking members distinguished members thank you for the opportunity to appear here today let me make just two points first the department shares your concerns about venezuela's relationship with iran its support for the farc its failure to cooperate on counter terrorism and its demonstrable failure to meet its international counternarcotics obligations we have taken a series of steps over time using tools provided by congress to address these failures we are constantly reviewing all the information pertaining to these matters to determine if the substantial targeted and interactive steps we have taken are appropriate and sufficient in light of the information available to us taken collectively these steps demonstrate our commitment to act responsibly and consistently with legislation and policy to confront specific activities by venezuela and venezuelan persons second let me draw your attention to colombia's superb diplomacy with venezuela the resulting rapportment between these two nations has resulted in useful and in context unusually productive and effective counterterrorism cooperation bilateral cooperation on terrorism and security matters is increasing  being systematized yielding notable results including the deportation to colombia of seven senior members of the farc and the eln while we still have serious concerns about venezuela's overall cooperation on counterterrorism matters these are steps in the right direction and demonstrate that counterterrorism efforts work best when nations collaborate what we seek from venezuela is its collaboration in confronting narcotics trafficking and terrorism in the absence of such cooperation and when possessing evidence that venezuela or venezuelan entities are not meeting their international obligations or failing to comply with applicable u s laws we have demonstrated our willingness to act the department has strongly  venezuela's leaders to pursue a path of cooperation and responsibility rather than further isolation and will continue to do so we continue to monitor venezuela as well as other countries for activities that indicate a pattern of support for acts of international terrorism no option is ever off the table and the department will continue to assess what additional actions may be warranted in the future i am happy to be here and i look forward to your questions mister chaffetz thank you we will now recognize mister szubin for five minutes alongside my colleagues from the state department we at treasury have been intently focused on dangerous activities stemming from venezuela over the last few years during this period we have uncovered and acted against a range of illicit actors operating out of venezuela including terrorists narcotics traffickers and those who have facilitated iran's pursuit of weapons of mass destruction our concern regarding the activities of terrorist groups in venezuela is longstanding particularly venezuelan links to the iranian sponsored as but one example i would draw the committees attention to an action we took in two thousand and eight targeting a hezbollah facilitator and venezuelan diplomat specific information on how to route their contributions such that they would go directly to hezbollah nasr al din met with senior hezbollah officials in lebanon to discuss operational issues and facilitated the travel of hezbollah members to and from venezuela diplomatic ties with iran as the committees members have noted the growing ties between venezuela and iran are very worrying especially as they stand in such stark contrast to the global trend in which the world is moving to isolate iran because opening we moved to sanction this bank under our counterproliferation authorities due to the bank's relationship with the export development bank of iran we will act firmly and quickly to deny a purchase to any attempted successor we have also named under our sanctions authorities the iranian oil company petrobas and targeted its operations in venezuela in particular finally we have been extremely active in the field of combating narcotics trafficking and have sanctioned thousands of entities across latin america including in venezuela among those we have sanctioned high level venezuelan officials who were involved with the farc including the head of venezuela's military intelligence agency their chief of state security and their former interior minister the threats posed by iran terrorism and narcotics trafficking are complex and we work closely with our interagency colleagues to bring all of our tools to bear against these threats in venezuela as elsewhere and our work can and must continue i look forward to your questions thank you thank you appreciate that i am now going to recognize the chairman of the foreign affairs subcommittee on the western hemisphere mister mack from florida for five minutes mister mack thank you mister chairman i want to thank all of you for your  testimony here today i don't think we need to continue to harp on this but we look forward to more open dialogue and cooperation from all of you so it sounds to me that we are in agreement that chavez is sponsoring terrorism whether through narcotrafficking through his cooperation with iran  what do we do about it so i first want to make this point and i will say it again we are happy that there were sanctions placed on chavez what we not happy about is that the three sanctions that were placed on pdvsa the denial of export import bank loans credits denial of licenses for the u s export of military and militarily useful technology and prohibits on u s government's procurement from entities these are things that are already not happening so we can also agree that these are toothless is that right designation of being sanctioned is important but the actual sanctions that took place don't have any teeth because these are things that we are currently not doing with venezuela  mack the fact is congress has given us a calibrated set of tools to use in instances like this basically implying that we have to make a very complicated calculation as to u s interest in each one of these instances now we had to judge benjamin that is the basis for the designation yes mister mack but that is the definition that is what is posted on the website that is what the state department so how  can you not designate chavez as a state sponsor of terror when we know the narcotrafficking the support of hezbollah even if it is just fundraising by the way i thought that was kind of interesting i don't remember who said it that only in fundraising but fundraising is the mechanism that allows hezbollah to work so we know drugs terrorist organizations support of iran all three of these things would be determined by the secretary of state to repeatedly provide support for terrorist organizations mister benjamin well the statute sir allows the secretary discretion to decide when repeatedly is sufficient enough to merit the imposition of this  designation and as i said in my oral statement sir our approach is very much predicated on effectiveness and what it is that is going to get venezuela to stop behavior that we believe is unacceptable that is why we security and harm the interests of those who we cooperate with very closely including to contain venezuela's behavior mister chaffetz thank you the gentleman's time has expired given the number of members on this panel i would ask members to keep within the five minutes negotiating here in public with venezuela or anything of that nature so can i ask you to give us a broad range of all of the competing interests that we have there when the balancing is going on give us a range of what types of things from western hemisphere affairs but certainly the diplomacy with colombia is very important colombia would be very very sharply affected by such a designation since colombia is at this time making significant progress in dealing with venezuela and in curtailing those activities that we find objectionable it would seem to be counterproductive to do that at this time additionally there are such second and third order effects as catching the business dealings of lots of closely allied countries up in the state sponsorship net if you will that if other countries that were doing business with venezuela suddenly found themselves to be in danger of being sanctioned that would be problematic i believe mister delare has spoken to the issue of our energy concerns in this regard so there is a whole array of different interests that need to be taken into effect and i think mister whitaker may have more to add on that  me the effect of any sanction we take on issues like that ambassador benjamin mentioned the effect it would have of a sanction against venezuela when venezuela views colombia as a close ally of the united states how would venezuela then react with respect to its diplomatic efforts in colombia that is unknown to me but it is out there venezuela consistently tries to define the democratic opposition in venezuela as tools of the united states again that might be  an avenue or a place where the venezuelan government would seek to identify that group and take some action in response to an action that we took finally we have many u s companies in venezuela and it is our goal as the department to understand their interests defend their interests and we would need to take into account as well any impact in that regard with respect to those companies that continue to do business in venezuela mister tierney thank you if the secretary has just decided to throw the book  venezuela and just take the more extreme sanctions on that what would the anticipated current anticipated response of the that arises into one of him versus the united states whether that is accurate or not i think that he would do this he would seek to turn this into a matter of a u s attack on his government and seek to use it for internal political purposes how that would manifest itself whether in diplomatic policy or with respect to democratic opposition in venezuela or with respect to u s companies is difficult to predict mister tierney so in striking this balance so far and i assume that you frequently on this look on that basis how would you rate the performance so far are you getting the results you want are you considering further sanctions are you thinking that things are moving along the way you want them to or are you just thinking that we have to do something else you are just not sure what yet and encouraged as well by the fact that there haven't been and i will let mister delare clarify this if he wants that there haven't been further shipments of the kinds of petroleum additives gasoline additives of the kind that were  observation first obviously in our capacity as middle east and south asia that is where we devote most of our energy and time i happened to be in the region there recently and  saudi arabia is obviously very concerned at this time about iran exploiting the so called arab spring or whatever terminology one prefers and they seem themselves as being encircled  welcome and commend my fellow chairs for talking publicly about this venezuela in connection with iran because it is of great concern it shows that this iranian threat is really global  much we get from there and elsewhere i think many of us believe that we made really a terrible mistake becoming so dependent upon foreign oil in many ways and some of that is by restricting access to our own resources whether it is a continental shelf or a whole range of other things here but relative to venezuela and i would invite this from anyone are we putting ourselves in a much more vulnerable position when essentially we are reliant upon this venezuelan oil the money goes down there and they are clearly one of the bad actors in this hemisphere right now and what they are doing is against our best interest  well i think there is little to argue about in your statement there sir because it is a fact that our sanctions policies are often directed at those countries who are oil producers and of course we are dependent on that external source of  energy i think we all wish it were true that we had many alternate sources of energy to depend on but at this historical point in time we have to move very carefully as to how we apply some of the tools that have been provided to us so we can maintain the flow of diametrically opposed to what is in the united states best interest i think we basically have in venezuela now what we had in cuba over the last number of decades the difference being of course cuba didn't this activity that supports terrorist organization through this funding and once again i think the state department needs to look at alternative ways instead of continuing to buy oil from chavez we need to find alternative ways to get that gentleman's time has expired i would like to let members know we have one vote on the floor it is the intention of the chair to recognize mister sires for five minutes for his questioning then stand in recess until venezuela and the activity in venezuela i had dinner with a group of people and they tell me that the amount of people in the iranian embassy in venezuela is one of the largest in the world i talk to other people they tell me that that is not true in your best estimation what is the embassy in venezuela from iran the personnel how many people do they have there how i can try congressman there was some months ago a direct flight initiated between tehran damascus and caracas our information is that as of september two thousand and ten that flight th tehran link was dropped and it is now a caracas madrid damascus flight and return there are continuing rumors as i think you mentioned in your opening statement that the individuals who arrive in venezuela are not subject to customs and immigration controls we have heard those stories too we don't have a way of verifying them since two thousand and six we have attempted to conduct dhs has attempted to conduct the statutorily required inspections of the airports in  venezuela because they are endpoints for flights to the united states because venezuela refused to permit those inspections safety inspections security inspections in september two thousand and eight dhs issued a public notice on this point informing passengers of our inability to do the inspections in an example of i am not going to call it progress but there has been a change and tsa was able to make a visit to venezuela last week they activities showing the face public diplomacy etcetera what we can't judge of course is how active they were within the venezuela government but there is additional information on this and if appropriate mister sires so how many flights do you have a week now you for the question since two thousand and two the united states through usaid has provided support to encourage the development of civil society and democratic practices in venezuela much of what we have done in recent years has focused on get out the vote defend the vote protect the vote and these kinds of activities to ensure that the maximum number of people can vote in free and fair conditions i think it is important to note that we do this in an ecumenical way it