thanks connie is an author and she's local and we always like to promote people from from the area and it's important to give back to the people that are giving to us and i thought when i read your book i found to be pretty interesting and i have to say this there's a lot of there are few things i know a lot about and there are some things that i think maybe i know a little bit about for there are a heck of a lot of things i know nothing about and the subject of your book was one of those now i did have a couple friends that have experienced what you what you wrote about and and basically had kind of a revelation from it i think but my personal experience is non existing but the one thing i've learned in my life is always keep my mind open  and to investigate and you know go from there instead of putting this blank wall that most people do a lot of people do in kind of like leaves you out of things as a result of that you know not open to new ideas or new concepts or even things that might be old ideas that got put aside so caught a year the title your book is dumping the magic and we we entitled our show today the consolations and your book speaks of constellations and what our constellations that's really a deep and complicated subject and it was also for me the life changer i think what i could say is that my life for about forty years was as a very angry very depressed very sarcastic and closed agnostic i know a few people like why what why were you like that ok i was raised very catholic in a very catholic family in a very catholic atmosphere in the one nine hundred fifty s the when you went to catholic school everything was church everything was was god and i was a true believer as a little kid i i totally believed in god i totally believed everything that the nuns and the priest told me and my family was very catholic so i totally believe that to the point where and when i graduated from high school at seventeen what i wanted to do was was find out as much as i could about god so i went into  became a nun after about a year and a half and i realized that wasn't where i was supposed to be and i left and when i left i think what happened was i had swung so far into the realm of true believer that when i left and found out that everything i was taught wasn't one hundred percent always true that catholics weren't the only ones who were going to have an end and everything wasn't as straight and narrow as i had been taught i responded by going completely the other direction i don't think that's i think it's a fairly normal response i think a lot of people do that over a lot of things yes they go from one extreme to the other because they're really searching and they find disappointment yes and then they don't know how to deal with the disappointment exactly and that's what it was and i think i was i was disappointed in the church but i think it was even start stronger i was just one in god because this was the only god i knew the church of god was the only got i knew and that god didn't make sense to me anymore i had looked at the world and i saw so much suffering so much pain and i thought the god who created this the god who was who was watching over this can't be a god i can love and i can't be a god and a god the god who excludes everybody but his certain chosen people walked away completely so you were living your life on a day to day basis with this resentment this anger for sure and and ended you didn't understand why you were really angry no i understood very clearly why i was angry what i didn't understand was that there was another alternative i looked really hard i think was an interesting dichotomy part of me was angry and closed and the other party was searching frantically please show me show me if there is if wherever i'm wrong let me see where that wrong is so i can find the truth yeah if you look at politics if you look at religion if you look at health yes what we're being told you know i don't care what realm you look at  around or what to do you look at what authority you look at right they all have the lies that they project for one reason or another that's kind of how i see things you know i see the food industry lying i see the medical industry lying i see the pharmaceutical industry lying even see the supplement industry lying sometimes sure you know and i think religion does a whole lot more that's for controlling or that's you know who knows why that all right all that's happening but when you face that and you realize that you do go through these periods of of mistrust of anger of indecision of being lost yes you know and you know i think what happens sometimes with when you lose someone you love you know through  you can reject yes and when you reject you really are lost especially if you've been indoctrinated a certain way yes so i'm kind of by reading your book and kind of even out talking with you briefly i kind of see that you went through that same process exactly yes how did you come out of that it was that was where the constellations came and i was fifty eight years old so there was a good forty almost forty years of i probably left the church when i was twenty one when i was pregnant with my first child  was i was fifty eight when by chance and i don't think anything is by chance i grew and reached a point of just not knowing where else to go i had i had gone through some really tough to precious i'd gone through seven years of chronic fatigue to the point where i had to quit my job because i couldn't function any longer and i i was a little in the desperate side and i thought ok one more thing i've been to regular talk therapy and it helped a lot but it had got me where i wanted to go and i heard about this guy who did something that was kind of close to union therapy and i thought well i've never tried that i'll give that shot and when i when i went to mark's offices it was mark will in and he he did he does family constellation work and when i walked in i explained to him this is where i am this is where i've been i've got the depression i've got the chronic fatigue i've got the weight problem i've got get back to work all these things are pressing on me and his answer to me was how are things with your mother and wow i didn't want to hear that at all mother alive or my mother was living at that point and i said i actually said to him or worked on that so many times away to one of us instead and then i'll work on it again and then i smiled and he didn't smile back and he said no this is this is the seed of your problem our relationship to life our relationship to god our relationship to everything is linked with our relationship to our parents if you get that straight you can get so much more straight so i almost walked out and then i thought ok because it was so foreign to you yeah because i thought i'd been down that road so many times and i was i was angry that's not why i go i came there for something and it wasn't to work on my mom again and he said i'll tell you what if you give this a chance while your mama still living i'm willing to say that there will be a time when you come to be and say thank you i'm so glad we worked on this while my mom was alive because it's going to make a difference in other words again i sure will say i know very little mostly what i read in your book and i don't know how much i retain from you know if you're at a loss of a voice but you're looking at your relationship you had with your mom and how that impacted you yes but then it reaches further how your mom had a relationship with her mom or heard  s going back and back and that's what you're trying you're trying to get to the source of all these things that have cumulated so make you who you are exactly and you're trying to take the negative things by realizing what they were and throwing them out of out of your system out of your mind i think it goes even a step deeper than that it wasn't just the realisation because then it would have been more talk therapy the consolation experience is you actually come face to face in your in your imagination or sometimes in a group of people with your parents with your grandparents you actually come into a relationship with them in that present moment as if they're there ok and at that point you say you accept them differently than you've ever done before that happens because you're in a meditative state or what tell us sure there are two wa works one is the way we did it that day which was a guided visualization so i relaxed mark had me imagine my mom standing in front of me the other way the much more common way in a constellation is to gather a group of people six eight ten one hundred people and then have people represent your mom your dad your grandparents whoever seems like they are part of the issue that you're working on and have other people represent your parents your grandparents and speak what they're feeling as as they stand in representation so you may have not known your grandparents i don't know your particular case but you're actually kind of visualizing them because they they were the impact on your parents yes and so whether it be your mom or dad so then you're saying that what they did impacted your mom and i led it to impact you yes so go back to what they did to try to limit the anger the fear the yes so you know that the the theory behind consolations is that love is always the primary factor in every family and excluding someone from that love is what is what causes the problems in the family and that exclusion goes down generation after generation after generation and make sure you know it makes you ill and it causes tension in the family someone is always there trying to recreate the family situation to even out the love again s interesting way to try to resolve it what we found is that you know the latest studies on trauma have shown that the emotional intellectual can not only affect us physiologically it can affect us genetically while actually i read independent of reading your book i read studies on that yes and there is evidence that that happens yes so if if if that if we could effect our genes by the trauma that we're in or the other relationships we're in of course we can affect every every other part of our body we are we like to separate us but that's the truth is we are body mind spirit together oh absolutely yeah and so i always look when i look at a disease yes which could have gone back according to this concept generations probably not probably ten twenty fifty one hundred generations because it is the human condition it's i guess a real good example a very basic example is the woman who always cut her pot roast in half before she cooked it and didn't know why but it had been done by her mother and her grandmother sure that we're learning and we fact that story you you reported in the book yes i'm reading that let's a fair thing yes try to attempts to do yes definitely to break the cycle and bring the love back into the picture again and it's not the love of ok i forgive you it's the love of i take you back into my heart and that's a whole different world that's so different as they are all kind of theories of actually where love lies in the heart and as in take it back to the to the to the ancients with the shocker exactly yes so forth and actually i read a study where they've proven that there are two areas of the heart that put out they can't even measure them are so small but they put out an electrical field that you can stand outside the body with instruments and measure yes and the source is from the heart yes and you know i read some things where word we've gone from the heart to the mind which is really the fall and we need to go back to the heart yes so it kind of kind of speaks to what you're what you're talking about very definitely with animals have you had much experience with this concept and animals now that's where that's why when you and i spoke before i have to admit i'm i'm not an animal person but i have my children have pets so i i i've watched the concept of as a as a pet is treated when they're little how that changes who they are as adults my my daughter's always had cats and cats are supposed to be very independent and she's never had an independent cat her cats have always been very interactive and warm and affectionate and i think that's because that's who she has suddenly you're you're looking to their benefit yes and you're trying to undo the injustice that has been done to them since the time they were born sometimes they whole longer that they're so it and you just mentioned that you don't have a lot of experience with animals and this concept but taking that what i just said can you integrate some of the concepts with with this therapy and how people might apply that to their animals ok have to admit that's a new thought to me and one of the things that occurs to me is perhaps understanding why an animal would be reticent why would why it animal would be standoffish if especially if you get a rescue  that and the other good part would be obviously the more you love you show the more that is healing me and that's that's key because yes soon as you send you apply a lot of yeah they and for trust yes and with trust  love and then i had the whole attitude changes and they drop this is my little my little paralyzed dog did you see him kicking yeah he's come along you know he yeah but but you know you mention you know god and so forth and of course  this isn't a show about religion but when i look at animals i see god yes because they come without these preconceived notions raised in these preconceived attitudes and they're the little pure life forms and how can how can they be who they are if there wasn't some higher being making it that way you know and that's what i see that's my personal view on it do you see that as well i think that's what happened to me in the constellation experience when i had that experience and was able to reconnect with my mom out of love because that's what basically the the words that i needed to say in a consolation were mom thank you for being my mother i don't think i've ever said that to my mom i never had said that there was such a problem between us that what i said to i always looked at where the hurts and the resentments but the the absolute reality is without my mom i would not have been alive and without her caring for me i would not have been alive so just set simple thing of saying thank you suddenly opened up a world to me where i was able to look around and see spirituality for the first time in forty years because i made the connection with my mom it made the possibility of a connection with spirituality there a lot of this is perception so you had your perception of what was going on in your life yes but with your mom's perception was probably different very definitely so when you were coming to this realization and this maybe you can call it reconnection death that's what was what was she saying or thinking when you were doing i had a really wonderful experience after after the consolation i when i went back again and marc and i works more than if i said can i you can keep this philosophical or you could make it real invite your mom to lunch talk to her tell her how you feel thank her for being your mother let's see what happens there and that's what i did and her response was was before we both cried she just she said she her eyes her tears welled up in her eyes and she just held my hand across a lunch table in the middle over a crowded restaurant and we both said we loved each other and for sure for me it was the first time that had been sincere on both sides since i was an adult and so these therapies are all done without medication without things like that  y very definitely yeah this is this is this is taking the soul into the into account you're not just the sun just body it's not just mind it's body mind and soul and i think that's the element that's missing in in a lot of me that's what part of the magic was that i had a dump i made separations spirit body mind now they're not the spiritual relationship with god isn't about getting away from the world it's about learning to find god in the world there's where i had made my mistake that was the magic i had to dump interesting title the dumping magic yellow i see i see hands drawn right what is the ok then they are the artist did my own my hands ok and what it is is shards of pieces of my beliefs that needed to be broken that need to be cracked i need to let go of i needed to let go of the idea that i didn't know that's the part i didn't understand i kept looking for the supernatural and saying i don't understand it now i look at the natural and say ok this is going to help me to understand that was a big deal for me so we're all in a  i trained in it now and then i went back to grad school and got my my degree and my master's in counseling because i wanted to work with this ok so you go back and pick up some of those pieces of that indoctrination that hold true to you or do you kind of just let them all go pieces of these what you call shards i think i think the natural process is if you let go of them when they when they bubble up to the surface that's what i found if you would ask me five years ago it was have i handled them all i would have said yes i did but i don't keep you know with the old people peel the onion every time you get to a different layer there or there are more things you've got to handle that's what i finding what i'm finding is that the person i was in two thousand and five when this experience happened i dumped every possible preconception that i could do i still have some you that well i have some five years from now you bet but it's just it's a process of every time coming up against the new the new magic the new preconceptions and willing to let those go to throughout my life you know i've got some years ago thirty twenty years ago when i lost my mother i went through some rejection periods c understand yes now i understand you know i personally feel i'm more spiritual now than i've ever been in my entire life yes more understanding more accepting yes but  just lost my train of thought anyway that was fine job that happens every once in a but if any way would i look at things and you can see the beauty in the environment the beauty in people  especially seated animals yes and you sit there and you think how can this dog that might have been abused suddenly love me and express its love by kissing and rolling over  so that it's it is anything gone completely set i think limited no in my list fearful now than i was twelve years ago or ten years ago or seven yes for sure but but new fears come to and i think that's that's part of their overall and there's a lot of new yes absolutely and i think that's that's what we're we're we have to keep dealing with over and over again the new ones so when you were in this traumatic period this culture of lack of another word impacting your family pretty pretty much yeah i look back now and i'm really i'm really sad for how much how much my children had to live through because of my depression i think i think it's rough on the flip side let me tell you the good part is i can do that i my husband and i have been married for forty four years and we have we had probably the first thirty of those years were we're broke and you know we were dealing with  depression we were dealing with my not understanding where he came from the good part of this these last seven or eight years is once i was able to allow my mom's love allow god's love allow all those love then i was suddenly able to allow my husband to be who he was for the first time in our lives and boy has that changed that relationship and that was my next question was when you went through the process that again it impacted positively your family your family your life ships for sure what a what for a while my husband i actually joked about it we talked about each other as if we were our second spouses my my my my first wife would have never been that understand me oh my very first husband would have never  but we can't because of the changes that have happened in that in that constellation work in the spirituality that came after it yeah everything everything is is definitely better changed since you kind of taken ownership exactly and what i realize is no one ever set out to make my life hard everyone you know it's a cliche everyone does the best they can but it's the truth everyone does the best they can for sure my mom did my dad did and i look back at their lives and what they had to live through they really do try to try to do the best you can with the circumstances and exaggeration yes you know i always feel this way and we're kind of quickly running out of t e people that don't love animals i question you know and animals seemed to be pretty pure yes you know and they're they're just here and they're doing the things and and maybe if this constellation of approach was applied to somebody taking an animal in wow yeah it may bring about that more money where can we get your book oh thanks for sure you can get it on amazon ok my website which i think these wonderful yes you will have it on the graphic so you can also pick it up on my website is it available locally where you can walk into a place and pick it up like a bridge or or any of the health food stores around here you know want to see you know well there you