and this is for anyone who cannot stay put the diadem when it comes up so if you cannot stay you may testify now or you may wait for the general and comes up you can pick one or the other but you can do both i have a sign up list and also to for anyone what wish to testify please sign up right there you have to sign up an i your name and let me know if you want to wait or you want to testify now please ok please come forward and then if by yourself you have three minutes forty arbitrary capricious and like it been like a vendetta the way in which is been handled i think the permitting process been dragged out so that the permits it's not been handled in a timely fashion and i think that the  this particular in which is not a hotel it's an eon it's a small there are currently five units and they're asking for four more units that have already been permitted offices i think the impact would be much those rooms which are total just over a thousand square feet were allowed to be part of the inn and occupied by guests who were there rather than offices it would have much higher traffic the i think the important has been very selective and i think the fines have been excessive nobody has ever been fined five hundred thousand dollars in fact it's been more fines and citations  mr baskin has been very patient many other people in his situation would have sold out and left town but as somebody who's done this island he's been very persistent in trying to get permits for his process currently i read in the paper that there were thirty violations and i actually went to the premises to look at what these violations were many of them were extremely minor and trivial and ok thank you very much good morning members of the maui planning commission my name is cindy reeves and i am the maui county administrator for the university of hawaii cooperative extension service but today i'm here to testify in my capacity as chair of the nutrition and physical activity coalition and pac i'd like to thank you for this opportunity to request your support for inclusion of anon at grade crossings at the terminus of the la hina bypass in planning for the intersection with the west melly greenway for the safe uses pedestrians and bicyclists the mission of the nutrition and physical activity coalition impact of maui county is a quote health and well being in a safe and accessible community where people are able to easily make healthy choices a major part of our focus is on promoting environmental design that is conducive to both health and safety and packs cultivates community leaders to improve the community's health and wellbeing through policy decision making regarding sidewalks bikeways and safe routes to school and pac is aware of and strongly supports an initiative to create proposed law hina bypass phase one b dash two is currently crossing the existing old cane hall road and if safety measures are not included during the planning phases of the bypass and the greenway now this could result in the potential for injuries or fatalities of pedestrians and bicyclists in the future to having an unsafe crossing at a major high volume high speed highway knowing that this bypass is under design all we ask  greenway thus keeping them safely away from the bypass traffic but this simple addition to the plan would result in the greenway being much more conducive to providing a safe and comfortable venue for outdoor activities for the children families and seniors in our is there anything in addition to this that you would also like that we can consider i appreciate your question and i'm not prepared to answer that for later today i wish i were i can tell you that our concerns are primarily for the safety of pedestrians we are very excited about the potential for the west know it greenway and we feel as long as the designs are being put together now for the bypass this would be a good time to actually include these measures and it's just one of those things i think they tend to get forgotten you know when we're going through this process so i thank you for your consideration and i come up with some issues some other things i'd be happy to share with this mission at that point thank you thank you and i'm also here in support of the webb smiley greenway project and asked the federal highway administration and the highway department of transportation for proper accommodation for the crossing of the west m very worthwhile project that will be beneficial to the community for safety by saving lives from the risk injury reducing risk the county liability on increasing economic growth and providing a safe and fun alternative activity for tourists  healthy to the environment and person there is white community support and support of vital landowners so many west by unified organizations such as the west my taxpayers so station and the west maui rotary organization to name a few this concept has been included in the state plan the mile island plan and the what's my community plan to be getting back in the mid one thousand nine hundred but has never been implemented thousand dollars for planning and design is important transportation authority to recognize and respect the great progress towards implementation of a plan that dates back to the ninety's i request transportation good morning you know my name is heidi dahl injure and i'm here in support of the west greenway project and to ask the federal highway administration and the highway department of transportation for proper a taking care of children cannot make it over here at this time but the muscles from west maui is we need safe bike paths on maui traffic is increasing the highways are getting crazy more congested more dangerous less reliable many people i've spoken to that work in the hyena would prefer to ride a bike if they had a safe way to write a bike bicycling is less expensive than owning a car it's healthier it's safer well safer if there are other bike paths and that's better for the environment something really needs to be done to alleviate our traffic congestion and bike seen as a great  alternative it is just simply not safe right now to bike on the road or expect to see a growing number of people using bikes when there is no safe place to ride developing any transportation infrastructure project on now you should not ignore the project and its potential to have a huge positive impact on the island save lives and increase the safety of our residents please we urge you to consider the project with us molly greenway thank you commissioners for hearing me today dr mark eco's executive director of the why association for marine education and research also known as hammer and i very much support this five pass project and encourage the planning commission to grant yes may permit and there's two main reasons i support this project the first is the existing highway is and will continue to be undermined by rising sea levels since it's falling into the ocean the only way to preserve it is to build ten foot sea walls to keep the water from crashing over like these who come on me as you probably aware seawalls destroyed beaches they destroy a critical habitat procedurals among seals thing and once you sever it with concrete you disrupt that ecological service that provides so moving the road is our best option so the second reason i supported it is all that land that the bypass most of it is owned by the county so and that land is designated open space and park so there is no development that will occur on the kind side so we have an opportunity to instill the first phase of the policy to put him on a parkway plan which i think everyone in this room would support which is eight miles of public access and open space and park on the  the highway so the all the county also owns the property a cut mountain where the connector will occur so they can work to keep that part of the road opening provide access although you won't be able to connect t to merge onto the highway on the other side so in essence i certainly would prefer to see roundabouts probably come up and and terms of traffic lights i would love to see the bike overpass but if this requires d n c to go back and redo the pushing this project down the road to four years possibly losing the federal funding i don't think it's worth it i think these can be implemented afterwards and i would love to see those things but i would hate to see four more years of the fealty having nothing can it not able to do anything but for concrete along our shoreline and we lose that so please approve this permit and so that we can bruce yolanda cody wallace be a big blow i think the west my greenway is a beautiful thing that that we can be that can be dealt with but we really need this to move forward so that we're not waiting another four years or and dealing any project because as mark and mentioned there's multiple areas on one appeal any highway that is falling into the ocean and we desperately need to get this going and implement the policy to put him on a parkway twenty years behind would open up a vast amount of park space for community and i believe with the p two p plan that we can implement this beautiful green way as well with all of this open park space that comes available so i wanted to testify on behalf of that and then i also wanted to testify on c three in special use permit for many reasons and i think many of you know but i just kind of wanted to bring this to attention the sales brochure this was for the put in and we can pass it around what it looks to me as i go through it  he had intended to build fifty rooms and as a community in the high community plan it clearly states that the community did not want to t v are so any t v are for that matter so i'm i want to request that unite a special use permit especially since he owes one hundred ninety thousand dollars the county and i think it i mean i think the media would just have had a field day with this if you guys give it to him today and i'd hate for the this body to be blasted by the media for allowing somebody who owes that much money more permits so i want to request that you deny his permit and i'd be happy to if you want to see his sales brochure ok we have that already ok so as you can see the plan was to build more t v our units in premier and i just you know the community is here today and i'm sure a lot of them are going to say the same things that they do not want more t input i was out and he wants his house a few weeks ago and i can tell you that you know these guys come they just want to party they're traveling and they're tourists and there are all these t v hours surrounding people's homes and it's a nuisance you know these people partying till late at night and i was there sitting down talking story with her and next door you hear all these people burning next door and i can understand why the community is frustrated irritated with the amount of t v our input you  morning i'm just here in support of them and i basically just like to see some consideration made for the you know way around the bypass either under overpass for the prices for the greenway because it really makes no sense to good morning my name is corey i'm not in i'm actually for the fight and i think that the bypass is a wonderful thing for our community and adding a greenway into the bypass for aligning is not  i just think is a very good way to foresee the future and this is what i think needs as well you need to foresee the future of adding a special permit for a gentleman who does already one hundred ninety thousand dollars to the community and i'm not aware of him adding three parking stalls for his task say because we do need more parking  is getting built up at a very fast pace i live in tight and i have to leave twenty to thirty minutes early to get through traffic adding more people to our community  more traffic and more needs around our community which is growing at an alarming rate with all of the vast property going up for sale on the north shore we have to be protecting our small communities and it's very important to foresee the future because being born and raised here i've seen the future grow very fast haiku school has four hundred year's school needs more space adding these little in special use permit will just allow more people to take advantage of our community and moving the i understand the or honda the fact that people watch out for each other they are born and raised there i'm the only rancher on my street i appreciate that and people watch out for one another when we have many people in our community who do not live here they do not care about it they do not purchase re aloha i walk down the street i want to smile i want to wave people growl at me and say this is my parking spot where are we supposed to park when you are too many visitors in a local community a lot of rage and anger to people who already feel betrayed please think about this before you give any special permits to people who are already have mistreated the permit stating give it thank you very much now with a question from the commission commissioner council i need to be clear you are not in support of seizures i am not in support no thank you very much but i am support in the  already owes this much money just shows like it's just such a precedent that you can just come here to make money because that doesn't help the community at all so it's like i have family in play here already and it just shows that like you're allowing people from other places to come here and the person who's like providing the facilities doesn't even take care of where he is where he lives and how he's making a profit and it just shows like just regard for anyone over here and just like i just think it's kind of insulting for our community and like as a whole line to see support for this action and come against us thank you and also i say windows please speak to the mike when you come up thank you hello my name is christine ford born and raised in maui and i was a merchant in your town for thirty years and one of the getting a certificate of occupancy sign for that building because the building was very old and you could poke your fingers through the wall and all termite ready that's the second floor you couldn't live up there and it's also stated in my lease if you'd like to see the copy that it is in unusable condition the building was not occupied for three years and the bugs were living there so i believe there's a law that if you have a building that empty and not used for more than a year you have to obtain a new set of certificate of occupancy so i have to put a new roof on the building because it leaks really bad i never use a second floor for any rental let me repeat the second floor was always empty i stored things that i imported from poly we never rented one room for one night to anyone and i just want to sa there any pictures that say that i rented it prior there alive i have gone to court with mr baskin he will lie because he loves money more than you love life or these local people here that's their community support there even when he got millions why do you need to support you he lies he cheats he steals to make a dollar and he hurt me when i was there he took all of my stored up from the second floor brought it down through the way hired some guy called carlos who was not a licensed contractor to he recently turned that into a hotel after the fact he goes to get permits what does that say about doing business on maui your native hawaiian people they're the ones that should count they've been trashed too long thank you property close to two hundred eleven highway to get a contiguous parking area and they were gracious enough to agree to that but in the subdivision map in process somehow they got shorted this thirty one commissioners which you guys like to see the presentation you usually have all the slides in your department report commissioner robinson pa i think just pretty simple we just want to move the land over a little bit the question i have is in that area we're changing the designations to business rates you have though it was a park to businesses that were switching then this is not an issue that small that's what we're talking about except for the questions any other questions from commission acres of land provided somewhere i'm assuming it was i don't think the county would do a lot more land swap with the newness of the on the sunni it's a one for one but because the subdivision process moves the easement by eight to ten feet they have to make up that area to the newness family to make it equitable which will in which it was originally agreed to back in two thousand and eight so the square footage on the suman back in two thousand it was already agreed to when they did the subdivision they were shorted so this resolution is to correct subdivision error that's all it is moves to approve a move by commissioner robison second the commission to cancel discussion regarding the motion director will you please repeat the motion the motion is to prove as recommend you the proposed phase one b to the line a bypass will extend the current sections of the bypass approximately two point seven miles to kill kill place near permanent and comes to proximately thirty eight point six million dollars turn off the bypass it either a link to street or kill kill place as the connector road will be right in right out only the applicant will be providing more detailed information and the after the project report was published the applicant made the department aware of three corrections to the project description first ok ok a place and kind of clue street will not be improved with this project except in the vicinity of the bypass itself second loop is a developer constructed road however the overpass is being paid for by the applicant and last only on a highway north from the transition with the connector road of accommodate some through traffic particularly travelling north to south location of the connector road transition to the existing highway and location of the transition from existing and dealing on a highway to the bypass near respect to the signals the west maui community plan is a document developed with a community that advances planning goals objectives policies and implementation considerations to guide decision making in the region within the community plan infrastructure section implementing action nine hundred transportation states discourage at great intersections along the planned line a bypass road in order to maintain safe and efficient traffic flow without traffic signals based upon this community plan implementing action staff recommended to the applicant that a method of traffic control other than signalized intersections be utilized the applicant commissioned a traffic impact analysis exploring various alternatives and which indicated that great separation was not warranted due to insufficient traffic volumes another factor in requesting at great intersections and signals that there is insufficient budget available for great used at these intersections to cilla take traffic flow the changes on pages to treat their staff report between the bypass and existing one not only on the highway right and that is not the case something so the so there's no page it says all the changes we have to follow and mark up ourselves that's correct ok so that's all no  indicates that that is funded by private parties and the predicate aleut itself is funded by private parties however the overpass is being paid for by the applicant only and the point is it will not be only local traffic that there will be some through traffic thank you ke ok the proposed connector road transition from the bypass to the existing and only on the highway is within ten feet of the shoreline which leaves it extremely vulnerable to wave action because of that proximity it would not be surprising to see a proposal to build every deadman or sea wall in the near future in order to protect that portion of the road staff has recommended to the applicant that this transition be moved approximately one hundred feet to the north which would take the transition outside the shoreline setback area and to a higher elevation the applicant through its consultant indicated that the transition might be able to be moved seven hundred to one hundred feet north without having to revisit the the a environmental assessment the department has been informed that the applicant is now proposing to move this transfer transition seven hundred feet to the north moving at nine hundred feet would require crossing  constable out eight hundred thousand dollars more which represents less than two percent of the estimated overall project cost losing it seven hundred feet would make the transition less vulnerable than originally proposed however it would still be within the shoreline setback area if either of these two alternatives are selected a condition of approval should be added to require that a certified shoreline survey be obtained for the area of the relocated transition and addition condition number six should be rewritten to require that the transition be moved to the location agreed to by the commission which would also take this transition outside of the shoreline setback area the recommended location of this transition is outside of the areas considered in the environmental assessment and as close to the closed  there for to move this transition is recommended additional environmental review would be required necessitating a significant delay and the project would likely not proceed so the department's recommendation does not include a condition of approval to move this particular transition so in summary while the west married community plan recommends the signals on proposed transition is partially located within thirty feet of the apparent shoreline but the shoreline set back of forty feet second is staff recommended to applicants that the sensation being moved approximately five hundred fifty feet to the south outside the shoreline setback area and the third point is staff recommended relocation sites as outside the food boundary would postpone the start of construction and current funding would be reallocated to a different project in summary while the west now a community plan recommends the signals on the bypass be avoided the planning commission has wide discretion in evaluating this or any project for instance the commission could determine that at grade intersections with signals could not be avoided for this project the staff has recommended that the connector road transition be moved to the north if there is no delay to the construction of the project should the commission require relocation of this transit transition as previously discussed condition six should be written in a certified shoreline with need to be obtained for the area of the relocated transition and then moving the southern transition from healing on the highway to the bypass would require additional environmental work therefore the project would likely not get construct just use my point right here short stretch which connects the existing highway to the proposed bypass construction on that next month and the construction to be roughly one year future phases one c n one he would go further to the north to complete the bypass forced to go onto the bypass unlike the current situation so the existing highway at this particular location will be gated you have no choice but to go on to the new maka shared left through the right turn lane as i mentioned at the connection of the south connector road to the bypass we would have a right environmental assessment process that that process started in two thousand and seven public meeting in two thousand and twelve extensive public review and that final environmental assessment was completed in december of two thousand and fifteen fifteen there's also a federal evaluation which is a federal environmental review portion of it and the federal highway administration completed that no additional impacts are into speeded and that the existing supplemental resources and archeological inventory survey was completed back in two thousand and six there was a subsequent archeological field inspection done in two thousand and seven which documented no new archaeological sites there was a finding of no adverse effect by the state to start position division in april of two thousand and fourteen and some of the previous work those done in the area did require some monitoring of the existing rock piles but during that monitoring portion of the proposed improvements will proceed any more than what currently exists the line in red here the marco island is the certified shoreline and the green line is the average so that's why most of the proposed improvements would be within the shoreline i would require shoreline is a little further away from the existing road but still a portion of the improvements are proposed within the shorelines at that the applicant  school purpose of the meeting was to provide an overview of the project and together community input as it relates to the semi's permit and  there are a number of people that attended the meeting there are a number of concerns they were raised and some of the concerns i can cover here today one of the comments was why does a section of the existing highway between the s are connecting the bypass will remain open for public access and there will be a driveway connection to the south connector however vehicle access will be blocked or the bypass meets the existing highway and  was brought up earlier the county owns the area noted in green is about one hundred forty eight acre property which is intended to be used as a public park so in green circled in green is this area will remain in public tourist action chills what we're proposing as far as a just a driveway access from the south connector to that portion of highway between the south connector and where the bypass meets the highway another comment that was raised was traffic signals along this is existing highway backup traffic and will create traffic delays which defeats the purpose of the bypass the intersections are being designed to provide safe access to not only traffic on the bypass but also to traffic travelling in the market directions as well and turning movements also need to be accommodated safely  slower than the intended speeds for the bypass and the bypass is this it is i in for a speed of forty five miles an hour so the by the roundabout is basically intended to be to process traffic in a slower more orderly fashion so most of the volume on the by would be on the bypass and there's lot volumes on the minor streets with the roundabout is that there is a slight slope and roundabouts were when it's implemented on a flat area so if we have to it implement the roundabout there would have to do more extensive wor the greater cost for construction this is a land acquisition and there's also visual impact which conflicts with the fish and requirements of the final environmental impact statement a final environment susman sorry eliminates one turning movement at the intersection but still if it's warranted a signal would still be required there and if this is implemented it cost approximately eight times more than an athlete intersection we have to acquire more land for additional right away and it cost more for construction to and here again great separation because we're and more visual impacts intersection and you have to make a u turn here wait for the traffic to clear and then make a right turn and proceed by and same thing if you're proceeding in a hollow direction proceed toward or will just clear off here and make a right it will be a stop here and you can either proceed maka or proceed makai but again he would eliminate the left turn movement at the end section but if it's warranted  signal it does cause some safety concerns for pedestrians and bicyclists so another question was well so where are the traffic signals purples and how are the bypass be any better than current conditions if traffic signals are used at intersections and the traffic signals are propose for traffic signals a long green times on the bypass could be utilized to minimize impacts of traffic signal delay during peak hours and during off peak hours alternate timing plans could be developed which could maximize throughput cars as opposed to regular cars where they can continuously monitor the traffic volume change accordingly but the technology is still quite still in emerging technology but the duty continue will continue to look at see if the traffic signal timing can be optimized but generally traffic signals allow for safety crossings for positions and bicycles compared to say a two yr stop intersection in this case where you have a forty five mile an hour speed limit on the main line and traffic signals apple kill kill and kill a cool provide the best balance between optimizing through traffic on the one hand and providing safe and convenient turning movements and access from the side streets on the other this is roughly where nine hundred feet crossing would take place and it would have to cross the line your block long new book which stream there is an existing covered crossing at the existing highway there's an existing so instead we would propose to move that south connect the connection to the existing approximately seven hundred feet to the north to avoid crossing the new pocket and with the exact location based on the final engineering design we believe that this can be considered within the study area of the past environmental reviews it was to increase the distance between the south connect the transition and the shoreline crossing to be incorporated in the design for the law in a bypass one be to design build project knowledge to leave the whole why a state wide trail and access maui council was established after hawaii recognized the people need for a comprehensive trail and access system back in one nine hundred eighty eight it was decided that a successful trail and access system while helping to conserve now its environment and cultural heritage will also contribute to maoist economy by adding diversity to molly's job market hansing maui's attraction to visitors interested in outdoor recreation and stimulating recreation oriented businesses and more now and how he has teamed up with the national park service state and county project which is on the agenda today and agreed that we need to work with the design build group to ensure the west maui greenway route route is not blocked as the project moves forward through the permit ing and design finalization we all well as it should elegy to work with private individuals and organizations nala helli is instructed to take advantage of opportunities which may be lost if not acted on immediately kind of a land banking approach to set aside routes awaiting funding or cooperative agreement that last night greenlee is such an opportunity with the cooperation of state county and landowners along the route we are actually able to begin to design phase one of course every section will have challenges and we look to the law in a bypass design team and the state and the county who work with us to overcome the challenge presented by this bypass section in closing corridors for walkers and bike riders separated from roadways are the goal to encourage all of maui to get outdoors to exercise and to provide a safe place to do that we are working with our community and visitors to change to a less centric way of life to a healthier lifestyle and in my years with now a healthy we have seen that if you build it they will come people will travel the west nile agreement that's worked together to make sure the west maui greenway route is included in the bypass design thank you there's a lot of history around the backdrop of the mountain along the west molly greenways we will be able to preserve the history and share those stories with our children local community and the sitters with my children will have a way to closed and at this point i ask your support to consider and think of ways that you can incorporate the smiley greenway into your plans and many people you know please consider this because everything is disappearing you know yes the greenway four are by school users or families back in the ninety's when everybody's up in arms about this bypass we know it's gotta count you know we need it we need it but it's been a bandaid fix from day one everybody was in on the tunnel vision you would have good morning commissioners my name is rory frampton i'm a language planner and i previously worked on this bypass project assisting with the environmental review process that noting went through earlier i just want to make a few comments the line a bypass originally was intended to bypass line a town and not and showed you that on the slides as they as time progressed and looking ahead they realized that they should extend the terminus further south to avoid areas along the highway that were experiencing shoreline erosion and in a nutshell that's what this project does the idea is take it all the way to the all the while the landfill which is a natural pinch point because you can't go over the landfill and it's very close to the ocean but really so it evolved from the bypass around the urban area to really bypassing the coastal areas and that concept has evolved into this poly to poor mana plan where the regional transportation corridor or we get shifted him out and that actually the intent is to actually preserve and enhance the coastal experience for people so that you don't have thirty thousand cars a day going a couple feet from the ocean and so you know i think long term this does present an opportunity to enhance the area that i've shown you in those photographs those areas are the areas that are where a section a road that's not going to be tracked through travel way the county a maui owns the land behind it and so the county maui has an opportunity to turn that into a really special recreational area that doesn't have again cars running along the shoreline the county now owns if this project goes through they will own ocean front land basically the land abut this right away so it does present a huge opportunity to implement parks and enhanced public access in my opinion the south connector is re suggestion the final photo that i sent you shows the where milton show the proposed terminus it would happen it would swing malka just after the london bridge and you can see that there's more land at that little area versus those other photos where there's the highways ready to fall into the ocean the greenway unfortunately the greenway the concept of using the channel road for the greenway is relatively new the long term plan that everybody's always talked about is having a green way along the and you know one provision that they have in the plans is for a separated bike path from the transition point to kylie to so that's an option i'll let me ask about the other options for how you work with that greenway but i do believe there's ways to accommodate it accommodated the long term plan would ultimately to be moved further sections of the highway further mt and then make everything below the highway just one last point the community plan language about discouraging at great intersections if you look at the bypass in general they have an underpass line a little road they have an underpass for an ag crossing by color stream and pull the caillou which provides access to the mouths of families in coal a valley that's been  accommodated be an underpass so they have looked at discouraging at great intersections and there are two proposed great intersections but if you look at the whole thing in my opinion the state has been attempting to try to avoid at great intersections complete roundabout basically we believe we'd have to go for additional environmental review because it would require more land acquisition specific view impacts were not assessed turn on signal turn what is the speed limit as the approach that you fifty five where the design speed for the bypass is forty five miles an hour forty five if the michigan u turn is actually implemented it might have to take a look at the speed limit again but the concern here is that if there's no signal it's a couple questions i mean rory just brought up you know the fact that we're not using x rays in other spots so the question comes up from what mr the earlier spies that process actually started like around two thousand and seven and the state and final assessment process concluded in two thousand and fifteen not sure if it will take that if we are not able to spend the money at this point now we would lose that commitment and we have to stand in line again so it would be six of the fairly long so one other question just for clarification when when we're talking about this is going to take additional money from the applicant who exactly is writing that check that is i just want to for the course we're talking to hypothetically but typically it's eighty percent federal twenty percent  i'll tell you there's a there's a fundamental shift in state d o t taking place that they're not promoting what they refer to as capacity i think this isn't just a capacity project i think there's a health and safety issue well but they're not promoting capacity projects they're promoting war preservation improvements to existing facilities so with that shift even if we had federal funds come our way we still may not get it for this road like ever so there's this we have an window of opportunity that i think we should take full advantage of and for questions well the first one is not a question  appreciate the fact that the state highways department is calling on this thing at this point i heard the governor's message that he said we're going to make demands of repair we're not into expansion and this looks like it's expansion so it seems like an exception to the rule to some degree so i pushed the fact that some of the forward on that being said from what i saw the proposed bypass looks very similar to the it took me seventeen minutes to travel for miles that's not forty five miles an hour translates to and we're designing a highway that's that's equipped to handle a sixty five hour that becomes to me a waste of money if you overdo sign up for hires and put a forty five mile an hour speed limit on it or a thirty mile an hour speed limit on it which is what we have an existing actually a question the second thing is  she want to try and think outside the box for a little while i'm not sure what the plan is for existing highway whether that's transferred to the county or whether the state maintains this or whether you guys are going to maintain the lower highway as well as the market which is not usually the case for the state but one thing that i thought that you could consider and this is outside of the bus that would eliminate all the  quite well for a number of years but actually one way streets have actually worked well in downtown where you have heavy traffic and a lot of cross connections  in this particular case you would have fairly futile cross connections and one of the drawbacks with our one way streets is you'd have to deal with driver education issues and if you missed a turn because you have to go all the way around and come back to where you need to go so it actually results in more troops actually is actually war and so that's i guess the drawback of doing  and the scenic route so we're projecting that less traffic would occur on appeal a new highway as a result of the bike so it becomes essentially  the only other thing that i had was a comment not a question i want the project to go forward and if we have thirty eight million dollars or forty million dollars that we can move immediately on now i think it's stupid to hold it up i'd like to actually i'm sitting here and i was just thinking what am i not seen and claims that he done he saw that too it's hosed this project helping the people of line how is this project helping the people of ma we were replacing a two lane highway with a two lane highway w stop lights and then the the how we were replacing we want to turn it into a slow pas we park instead of using it as for links i mean i've never been stuck in line or when there's an accident ok so so we are we've all been there so why would we take a two lane highway and and not use it anymore why would we even think about between a gate on a two lane highway why would we spend all this money and have a ten foot shoulder and not turn it into a four lane highway why we put spotlight on the road to  is already a slow slow dry i mean we have to everybody has intentions everybody wants to do and hope it but we place in a two lane highway with a brand new two lane highway with stop lights doesn't make anything better except spending money and contractors make out which is great but we've got to think about improving maui for now and the future the roads going to take a few years if that and the st i don't know how you do it but i don't think this is the answer and that's that's what i thank  up this to me this has to move forward and it's it's more than just this particular portion because we have highways that are falling into the ocean right now and this is the first portion of that i agree this any further like behind and needs this you know this is the first step to it i wish there was some way that whoever follows us we could tell them ok this is stop lights now but when it goes from two lanes to four lanes those stop lights come out and we probably more pressing than even this portion is right now and this is the part that connects to that so we've got to do this now in yet i get that it's just like ok it doesn't make sense but we're dealing with the federal government which a lot of things don't make sense  so you know concerns are delaying the project another big thing to me is we can't do anything that's going to create a scene we just can't so that the south connector road i will get to questions some kind of kind of battling on right now but i do have questions about that south and ector road you know and and just the access that we have there and then you know that the access to the lady i forget what her name is i think it was a lot of the talk that will remain open to public access to new orleans or because if i could just clarification on that then because that's one of the that's one of the parts of the highway that's falling in right now that's one of the endangered parts so when you say that you're going to leave it it just seems a little counterintuitive to say we're moving everything malka because we need to protect the shoreline and say oh but we're going to leave it so that's the part that's a little counterintuitive address that people have asked for public access but also as part of the presentation i mentioned in the c away for the existing highway into the park whether that involves leaving the roadway there the pavement there or taking it out i think that's a decision to be made but that area as far as duty is concerned will remain open so the department suggested that we move it nine hundred feet which is that light line correct that's correct and then you guys are asking for the purple line because you don't want to cross long a post room for a fourth time yes is there a way to incorporate nine hundred feet and cross where one of those other two lower bridges are like just drive and making a fourth one is just to say ok we're going to i don't know redo one of the three back seems to be i mean just based on his visual thing it seems to be about the same as with a seven hundred foot portions as we're proposing now so no matter what in that general area it is a the planning department was concerned due to me need to come in for some remedial work fairly soon if we kept it in the same location so you know we're amenable to moving at seven hundred feet which is i think a good compromise where the new road meets the old road and you know i've got issues with that but we can't delay the entire project forward so if i'm looking at this the seven hundred feet from what i gathered at least what i read in what i thought i heard  presentation is still within the shoreline setback at seven hundred feet so we've got a one hundred feet we're not within this sort of front step back so you know we've got roads falling into the ocean right now we're going to build a new road that's already within the shoreline well we can look at some other alternatives if you want i suppose we could do that and work with the planning department on exactly where this environmental assessment does call for location to be determined doing the same a process so we could look at that we do have a concern though about crossing the street in the fourth time because that will require the additional questions if you sort of two point seventy miles roughly thirty million dollars which is about ten million dollars per mile does that include a contin little traffic still on the bypass so in this particular case we will be routing the traffic from the existing highway near all the wall on to the bypass first that will be their only choice if you're traveling in a line in a direction this has to be built you know i think it's a has to do kind of thing but i think the idea of forcing the traffic on from that perspective so and the other question that i had is a question we heard from heard from the public that they're concerned about its axis what you said was existing highly we will remain open or public beach access to the ocean that's correct i have a question regarding the trust account a not sure the source of your report because personally i don't i try to avoid the website like  traffic so bad i think a lot of the locals probably speak the same and i think a lot of people in line to say would try to avoid going to town because of that so if you actually have a line of bypass open people are going to be more apt to go so  will automatically so i think what you should consider is what potentially the traffic count will be not whatever source you have currently and i just you know i  don't know maybe we can have the state guys come forward to i see what is happening with people on the highway you know you don't need much room to three stripe and make a four lane so why don't we just do that four lane from the start instead of waiting and redo it down the road well basically it's it's a totally road it's basically warranted at this point this is done smith done smith is with the molly office of two thousand and i'll so at this point in time just for the easy answer is the project was being awarded as two lines which simply makes it impossible for all the reasons that we've already discussed  one of the things that makes it interesting to be in this industry right now is what does the future brain you know what what will the cars look like how will be driving there's a lot of questions that there are right now that are are changing in the industry fairly quickly so to be able to make even an estimate as to when that would occur what those volumes would be is is really hard so you know i think rat nails on the tooling section or about twenty eight thousand it picks up significantly in line and maybe thirty four thousand i think that your threshold is somewhere in the range of forty thousand so when that would how that would occur i wouldn't even want to guess at this point  study that was done by the o t the traffic counts as part of the document and then the traffic counts were projected for this project as in the interim condition for twenty twenty and twenty thirty five expected then there were some limits to the traffic studies that projected traffic to twenty twenty twenty thirty five i don't know the exact date the count the original i wanted to take the opportunity to say that i thought the deal to be got a bum rap and all the while relative to the sea well controversy  sea level rise is happening there's of seventy there's a crack in the antarctic ice sheet that's seventy miles long three quarters of a mile the that's going to send a glacier off into the ocean and then it's going to release the glaciers behind once that happens we're looking at three six feet of sea level rise worldwide made the improvements that they're proposing at all and my way to morrow jumped up and down and got all excited and stopped the project by protests i think they did the people of mali a great disservice by doing that ocean which is really stupid but i wanted to say that in deity's events they were planning the right thing and they cut jumped in the car that wanted to save the world and it up shooting themselves in the put it may be right on the south side of the water where the water is ready to go over the road but on the north side hilti had the right plan and they stopped it because it we're responsible for making sure that the community input is recognize an acknowledged from line and i was wondering that you had meetings prior to coming up before  commission what was the input that you got from the community about this particular plan because it's already at the final stage and we're talking about the mind of monies that are being spent another three four five years so i think part of our our responsibilities to make sure that the communities heard and support whatever their input is in what was happening  thank you i think we said yes if you look at the eight in staff report you'll see the sign in sheets and comments and responses to those comments that were voiced at the meeting so so basically the community did agree with the recommendation of the not having signals and access to cut mountain area i believe that the access to cut mountain area has been resolved because it is not being  you've heard the discussion about signals  of final analysis is that some people really want to and other people are not quite happy with the way this pla with well if that's the case well that would be the first step is to communities really not totally one hundred percent behind the recommendations then the commission has the opportunity to put in recommendations such as four lanes instead of two certainly my next question would be to you and that is if it was to be delayed with this proposal about we basically have to look at all the environmental impacts again so we'd have to go through that process we would lose our federal earmark as far as funding so we have to stand delay my guess and is only my guess is maybe in the neighborhood of eight to ten years i mean roughly so i mean that's just an estimate but  it's a substantial delay so the next question would be if we were to is a that long and develop a two lane highway with the state be able to type of scenarios at this point i can only tell you that the design build contract has been issued and is for tooling there ready to start and if we are not able to do so you know we would lose that chance and then we have to stand back in line with federal funding again welcome quick put you on a star for a minute so in today's dollars what is the cost difference between a two lane and four lying given everything equal since we're talking about a lot of things in a presentation eight times more if we had to do all these other things what are we talking about right off the bat i would say it would be close to double you would still need to build two bridges to all those different infrastructure improvements i wouldn't know how the traffic signals would be changed at the intersections but a good starting point would be two times the amount to double shoulders right now it's if i were going there we have to move the shoulders are ten feet ok so my question is is it's maybe we can leave the one problem before it starts which is when there's an accident both sides are shut down them there's no medians is there going to be a meeting where we can talk to people to help prevent traffic from crossing over to the other side and head on collisions where we can just keep the lanes on one side  so my comment then is besides the ten foot shoulders is there any other spare square footage you guys have on the site the remainder of the right away the right away increases onto the four lanes and keep in mind that even if you do increase it to four lanes there's still issues we have to put into turning lanes inspections are turning lane they're also right turn deceleration lanes so that needs to be designed into the the right of way as well is what we were doing we spent a lot of money and we're doing a lot of things and and i guess we're pretty we're doing this not because of our capacity but because of safety but yet if we don't have the media mount see how that increases our safety i would hope that we could at least have some buffer in the middle to help prevent head on collision built on the market side of the ultimate condition so there is no median plan at this time but you have shoulders on both sides correct but there are shoulders therefore with ten foot shoulders on both sides and you screw foot is there as well that's going to be there besides the shoulders that is correct and up and shoulders not something that is mandatory on a two point seven mile highway isn't a ten foot shorter is not mandatory there are some form of shoulder is mandatory but we're providing a four way shoulder and what is that what is that mandatories square footage the minimum where is generally about forty four feet so we have an excess of twelve feet then you have excess of eight feet you have thought of ten feet on both sides so twenty four feet yes thank you so prices you have here have a question for you we saw what happened to there's a possibility for it to be restrained there is there is twenty four feet of travelling and twenty feet of shoulder but then there would be other side issues with doing that there may not be  the best solution at this time would be be able know for this a part of the recommendation is to sit aeration for you guys as you're doing this to accommodate or take that into consideration i think as far as if it doesn't jeopardize the tooling design build contract consideration all four lanes for the future can be that there has to be not only this more section of highway but i'm just saying that the areas where you guys considering a bill taken that into consideration as we design the highway to allow enough room so if there needs to be restrike there's not going to be major costs or construction required to make that happen because obviously we have enough shoulder more than we need assume for actual lane says we're doing i have a question for mr smith on the two right now as we sit here you've mentioned that there was a bed and award for it the scope of the project is for today yes ma'am it's we're sitting here we're having collaborated efforts discussing for that so i don't know that we're getting anywhere with this because the folks are binded by the contract correct and i don't know chair how this is going to play out to whatever is appropriate i'm not the one to come up with that name i don't know what's appropriate in that particular area because we just go ahead rename this something that's  actually before we get to that a decision needs to be made about the transition from the connector road or whatever it's going to be called two h report recommendations with actually seventeen different conditions of approval and we would recommend that however should you decide you want to have the connector road move either seven hundred feet or nine hundred feet or whatever you decide then condition number six we would recommend being modified and we would also recommend that a condition be added that would require obtaining a certified shoreline survey for the area where the transition would meet up with the old time way and i can provide you with specific language for those and if you desire to have anything say anything with respect to the west maui greenway i believe the applicant is willing to work with the greenway people and i have language for that if you want to add that as a condition as well so what is this body decision commission concho ok so i would like to make a motion that is to accept the department's recommendation with a change of the south connector road needs to be outside of shoreline and that we also get certified  are any of the thanks that we're doing going to be a problem for them because if it is i don't want it to hang up i've heard from them that there is a preference for seven hundred c which does not take the transition outside the shoreline sent back i don't know whether but what they're asking for here is  commission is a we so we can understand the commission's concern about moving the connection point further away from the shoreline  we do have a concern that if we move it to the nine hundred first point and we have to cross a stream agree again if there is a requirement for additional environmental review as a result of that to basically kill the project so that's a concern we are i think willing to work with the department explore the whether the wording is now it's rather big but we can take into account the wishes of the commission to try to move it to the managers with area look at alternatives to to accommodate the commission  and as i've said here before you know i'd rather have you know i don't want perfect getting in the way of good approve the recommendation from the planning department with the conditions stupid ok we have a motion by a commission to go she second by commission and to discussion regarding this motion commission conscious i do believe that we're going to need to get the shoreline certification so i mean i think that i mean i don't know if i can then make a the only time today the only reason we would need an additional shoreline certification is if we move the transition i believe the o t and the applicant are willing to move the transition of the seven hundred feet so will need to get that certified as a shoreline so we should add a condition that deals with that would you be willing to make a motion to and then i would like to make a can have a problem with that i'd like to thank the department of transportation for moving forward upstream against the grain in pushing this project forward noted ok that's it would you please  only you had that added to the and i have some language if you would like to hear it yes please and that to the satisfaction of the department the applicant shot work with the community to accommodate the west greenway satisfaction shall be submitted to the department prior to will follow through on that but so they're willing to work with the proponents in trying to come forward with it in the couple  so along the lines of recommendation i was thinking that to the satisfaction of the department of public works and the parks department and with the community wait six hours oppose one of those motion carries so we're back to the original motion is a regional motion  we conduct our meetings in terms of voting and motions counsel would you like to speak to that i just want to say as a coming out this was not my idea chair the chair just wanted me to kind of help and address the issue of because the chairs the the person who's in charge of the order and process if the body has a issue with that if if you if you don't agree with the chair the process is that you know you raise an objection and you appeal the decision of the chair and you need a second once there's a second then there's an immediate  whether to uphold the decision or overturn the decision and then without debate you move on so they talk about the ok well example in the last the last decision of the chair was that they were going to take the motion and put the two items there was there was two permits an estimate and put the question together and then vote on the totality of the motion  then vote separate the question yes we're going to we're going to bifurcate we're going to take the estimate and all of its issues and conditions and debate that motion first vote and settle that and then go on to the next  permit to take care of all of its criteria and conditions and settle that and then it's over then the question is is settled as a matter of  and you're going to see this a lot in the future because you've got this conditional zoning issues you've got community plan issues and sometimes a community plan will be thrown in with  g sometimes an estimate will be thrown in with a conditional you know you can get projects that have multiple layers of state and county supervision as far as the permit process so for  has to be clear that you know you want to separate the question as to the specific permit or this specific because there is issues where the permit may be similar but there are conditions there could be an issues like do you want to put the conditions on permit number one which is more of a state permit but you have county supervision or do you want it on the county permit which you you have more direct supervision so those are the types of discussions when you have multiple permits coming before you and in other words for the commissioners for any motion that's on the floor it's objectionable as long as you make a motion to object with the second so that's why intervene and petition to get and so because because of you know procedurally this could get a little interesting we want to just clarify where we're applicants to make a presentation we will then hold public testimony and we will close public testimony when all is pow and then the next thing we're going to do is and members will be looking on it on our koku the first item today that we're going to be discussing this afternoon is a request by sea shore properties l l c seeking a county special use permit in order to operate in nine bedrooms transients vacation rental with a first floor lobby located at ninety three hundred highway on approximately fifty six hundred square feet of land in maui mr michael baskin is the principal of seashore properties l l c and the building in the current operation are commonly know and operating as the pie in one of the things is that i like to do as well why are we even here today  what's the purpose of this meeting today and the purpose is that the applicant in july of two thousand and fifteen signed with the county a settlement agreement that settlement agreement and supplement agreement the supplement agreement specifically indicated on page five and i'll just read part of this into the record within sixty days of the full execution of the settlement agreement nty special use permit to operate the five existing non conforming lodging rooms and for new offices as transit occasion rentals so that is why we're here today the county code allows for a transient vacation rental from one to twelve bedrooms to be built in the country town business zoning district provided that in a public hearing and after my planning commission approval gives the green light for such a project so we're not there's been some discussion that this is an expansion of an existing property  i think it's important to note that this permit is for nine bedroom transience vacation rental so that's a critical point we're not talking about the issue of the grandfathering they were not simply today discussing does this application or the county's special use permit meet each of the seven criteria there's actually eight in the code eighth one has to do with rural and agriculture so that's not a likable but in order for the commission to guide the discussion this application has to meet each of these seven criteria not five of the but each of them so the commission after reviewing the testimony after listening to the presentations today they have to make a decision should we get to that point whether or not this application for a nine bedroom t d r meet each of consistent with a community plan land use map the community planning business commercial there has to be a consistency there whether or not it meets the intent of the zoning district in this country town business the intent can be met but only if the special permit is granted it's not by right that a t v are can be allowed in this zoning district without getting planning commission approval whether the propose will not adversely effect or interfere with the infrastructure that infrastructure can include sewers traffic googles a whole range of public infrastructure that's important for a community where the proposed use will not adversely impact social or economic structure of the community as we all know the town has met with changes over time so it will be important to look at does this how does this proposed c v r perhaps impact the social fabric of the community is the public protected from the deleterious effects of the proposed use and our demand for essentially that sets the stage and i really can't emphasize enough that these great barrier by which the debate needs to be guided in order for any permit for a special use be granted so if you have any brief questions but i think we're looking at the presentation from the applicant next good morning i'm michael baskin and the owner of the pi and thank you all for looking over our presentation and i want to welcome the people here today from protect that live in place and are concerned about the community and town of pie before i show the presentation i just want to give a quick background of myself just so you know a little bit about me first of all i've been living in play yes since i was fourteen years old so i'm very familiar with the town  love the town my parents live in kuwait and my kids were born in part so like the group that is here today i am also very passionate and concerned and interested in protecting preserving the town  of we're fortunate to own some property in pa and that's a true thing that we're fortunate about before we start i'm going to show a brief little video just two minutes it's a tour of the pain in just gives you a little sense of what it's like so that you don't have to actually walk out there and be there so we could show that is that the existing rooms i guess all talk because it's not very well these are the fisting rooms that we have the fiber and this is what one of the rooms at this is room two of the offices i wanted to give everybody a sense of what we're talking about here this is the third room and this is the fourth room and basically what we're saying here is that the converting and change of the use from this thing this is what the building looks like from the  outside we have onsite parking and we have offsite parking this is located just two hundred feet down from the end where we have our own parking unfortunately the audio is not working on  this michael and you just speak to the mike ok sorry about that apparently the audio is not coming through i'm just trying to share at this point so this is some guests that are walking through the entrance to the play in we do have some music once a week  we do have a little patio area where we have a little cafe for our guests to enjoy and now open to the public as well line the the building was originally built in one nine hundred twenty seven and one of the things that i'd like to emphasize and go to the next is that when we bought the building back in and it's been now about sixteen years back in two thousand two thousand and one that's what it looks like in the upper and that's what it looks like in the in the lower sections so what we're here for today is we're requesting for a county special use permit to convert or office spaces now i want to emphasize these spaces are already built so there's not any new development that's going to be currying and we want to convert the five historic large rooms to transient vacation rentals in this process to allow for a total of nine transients occasion bedrooms we go to the next one so this is what the property looks like in two thousand and fourteen after we constructed it and i want to also emphasize that the new section where it says two thousand and fourteen for existing office is to be converted to four guest rooms this is about a thousand square feet we went through the permit process we got a certificate of occupancy for this it is currently all permitted and so we have been operating the five rooms since we opened in two thousand and eight for the last eight years and we can go to the next line this is what the exterior looks like when we purchased the property i don't know if some of you can remember  building back then but they had a sign here saying take a dog on a picnic used to be able to walk in and get a sandwich made and there were a bunch of dogs in the back and you could actually take the dog to play some play a rather to honda with you and i believe one of the people that testified earlier actually was the tenant at that time when we bought the building next why this is a little bit of a transformation when we did some renovations to the building in two thousand and seven  e preserved and kept the five rooms upstairs and we at that time made the shops downstairs improved them and again kept the structure of that building next why this was the entrance  to get up to the up stairs there was a previous person operating a play a lodge prior to our obtaining the property next fine this is the same door today that they are now to enter into the lobby we went through and again preserved and kept the character of the building and we went through as designers that's really what we like to think that we're good at is preserving and keeping the building  so why are the offices conversion required an ordinance was passed for one five three in two thousand and fourteen and it was amending the uses that were allowed in the town so basically at that time the use of t v in the business district was not allowed to use this went through the council i was there i remember when it went through and testimony that took place and at the time the idea was that there were looking for a way to relieve some of the vacation rental in the residential area and try to put it into the business to commercial districts and so there was much debate about the size of that i recall that they were looking at potentially doing six there was a discussion of doing twelve and potentially twenty and ultimately through the process of the community coming out and talking and taking testimony it was decided by the council to vote on this and and it was for twelve rounds you can go to the next line here we have at the time the the voting process and you can see it's hard to see here but right here it says twelve one to twelve rooms at that time it was voted eight zero it was signed by allen our coward two years ago and so this is essential established in the business country town the ability to unit by transit for any period of less than one hundred eighty days excluding that erectus and short term rentals i wanted to just share with you the if you look at this map of the red is the  t properties and it's a it's quite a handful there's not that many we are fortunate to have one of the properties in there and that's what we're here for we are basically looking for our property which heart of the town you can see ninety three hundred highway owned by seashore properties the entire lot is thousand six hundred thirty two square feet so the entire property that we're here considering today that's i just want to talk a little bit more about the building itself it was in one thousand nine hundred nine actually back to one hundred twenty seven a lodging house and we're going to show some additional slides just so that you can see that entire building that we're talking about today is four thousand seven hundred seventy one square feet that's really the size of a large home i guess is what you might think so these again are the five existing rooms which we preserved we  kept the interior walls the structure we didn't change any of that added section right here which is again about a thousand square feet and we went through the building permit process and this patients here we got approvals submitted for building permits went through the process p c t zoning past we did originally built this with the intention of using it as office with the knowledge that if the  passed we would then convert that through a special use permit and that's what we're here for today so again the construction of the offices were completed two years ago and we went then and submitted for the application and today we're and this is what we're proposing there's no change in any of the downstairs area in terms of any building again is no construction that we're here for today we're not looking for to do any construction whatsoever we have three parking spaces currently and we will be going to six parking you can actually park six cars there we do have a variance application and to allow for the six parking but technically you can park six cars here and right now two people in here and they do  of nine and again by the new you're allowed to have up to twelve so we will be lower than what is actually permitted under the p c t these are our original building permits set that we submitted they were approved by the planning department the patio area the tree the landscape planning that was required we have three parking spaces at that time that were required so this was the original building permits here you can see that at the time of the approval we had five bedroom lodging unit house and over here these are all of the building permits from d set exact set that was stamped to be kept on construction when we constructed the four offices watching watching watching watching on the upper second floor again we're not changing any of that this is our exit existing and there's no change back and then when we were looking at doing an addition we were considering doing seven rooms we decided to only add four we were thinking seven plus the existing five would be twelve ultimately we only added ground determined to be permitted uses non conforming parking which mean that there was no additional parking required for what was existing we were looking at doing new rooms which was going to require parking spaces cells even though we have the parking planning department determined that we would need some which we agreed to here's a letter from the planning director so right down the street we have an additional parking lot and here it is today and many of you may have driven by we're fortunate again to have king and again i realize that parking is a is a huge thing and i hope to have more parking in the future but at the moment at least just to give you a sense of the area you know the uses i mean there's a tattoo parlor across the street there is that supportive and uses in the town these are new buildings that have all gone up in the time that we were doing since we've actually done our application these have been constructed so the new building here new building in town center new building next door this particular building just completed right next door to the tenants who are moving in if you're driven by remember the chevron gas station here we are located next door to it so this entire building has gone right next to us this will all be retail shops and we located right back here  besides this again is historical uses we'll just go through it in terms of the building back in one thousand twenty nine it was a fish market and office one thousand nine hundred forty five stores we actually have some maps that we're going to look at in just a minute that shows some of the historic but this is basically showing that throughout this period of time there were watching components i'm not sure if you're familiar with the sandbar maps but they basically deal with basically they were concerned about fire and they wanted to know how the buildings were located and particularly anybody that was sleeping so they did all of this work and go to the next one back in one nine hundred twenty nine sand bar map it lodging and rooms so basically this building was built with that intention back in one thousand nine hundred seven and you know if you do a little bit of research you'll find that actually the town of back in the twenty's and thirt was more bustling than it is today around the plantation era and the building of the of the mill there was quite a bit of activity and from what i understand there were more in theaters and different things this building it appears to us was built as an inn back in one thousand nine hundred seven so we have evidence of that here and we'll go through additional sanborn maps that show a continued indication of so back so one hundred seventy five it also shows new ordinances that have come into play so i just want to quickly go through what that is in the definition of in one thousand nine hundred sixty a lodging house or rooming house any building or group of buildings or portion twenty or less weeping and in  and the next one and then of course in our process of getting agency comments with this went out to all the agencies to determine whether or not they were behind the change of use from the the property was traditionally is as a boarding house lodge and the proposed change of these does not affect the historic property so the state of hawaii determined from the state historic preservation that basically  this had traditionally been used for lodging purposes and so this document from them in our view is very important and they had no concern because of the previous  i want to talk a little bit about the impacts so essentially it's already built it's two years old it's well constructed it's probably permanent it has a c we are looking at converting use to accommodations and i can tell you that my options at this point are to rent out those rooms to say an attorney let's say to an accounting office or to a real estate office and they could potentially have four people with desks  y times potentially people coming every hour could be you know as much as eight people coming thirty two people a day coming to a to those four rooms versus one person or two person sleeping in that room and we think that that's quite a bit less impact less impact in terms of traffic less impact in terms of staff so the other thing that's interesting is that parking for offices is a higher amount than for lodging so four offices were required to have three parking four rooms were required to parking less parking is required for less traffic and circulation and of course there will be more economic activity to the surrounding businesses and what i mean by that is people staying in the rocking around their shopping in the shops eating in the restaurants contributing to the local economy there and so we think that that's actually something that is needed out of the fact that this will be in the business district versus being a residential area which is i think what it was intended when it pass you here's some statistics since we've opened in two thousand and eight we've had over approximately fifteen thousand people we did a little research before today to figure out how many were local meaning coming from  who is directly across from us and fifty people who have written in letters of support for the basically at least reaching out to quite a few of the people in the community definitely these are what the rooms were like before two thousand and eight and this is what they look like now and again that's the one on the video where i was looking out that's the old room that's what it looks like today to testify and i think we want to hear from them and i just want you to know that we are very much in favor of trying to work with the community and the people around us and so you'll find that our entire least two more minutes just to give my profile of how i met mr bascomb we met each other when he bought the parcel twenty three novels and his big there well two weeks after that i meet a visitor it's a rental so the saga begins from that point on his lies everything i sat there and i listen to everything usually you get nervous when you get up to speak to somebody but my stomach was just turning it was turning because of things that i i was listing to you know my grandmother and my mother taught me something when you're heavy your heart is heavy you start your day off i opened the bible god said i go and comfort the people so that's what's in i feel i read it sometimes it might work for you too but before you go is an application for a special use permit submitted by mr banko baskin unfortunately he doesn't show you the video of that incorporate the three vacation rentals he is the older folk in and through the case should rentals that tie into the ins operation if you will if you view the videos on the media you can see that you have it in front of you i urge the committee to deny this application it is against the community plan that says no all hotels from high school districts no hotels no resort you wanted to do something about it that he should have gone and asked for an amendment to the community plan that's where it all fit the community plan he has operated illegally for more than four years and has intimidated people just like all you heard this morning and intimidated people in the process he continues to refer to that in as being historical and the on the web that refers to the beach as spike in private beach not even we who live on a loony refers to the beach just always and only hours we are blessed to have it he's a very smooth talker very nice he wanted to meet with me one day and my husband told me because i'm a christian that i should meet with him so he and his girlfriend came over for the little cake i could not i could not be a hypocrite because it's like going back to the pilgrim days where the indians tell you how the indians see you talk with a cricket tongue that's what he does he buggers you up he makes you feel good he gives a good presentation that's a beautiful presentation but he failed to include all of the three vacation rentals that these visitors that's the beauty the response that you get in the papers that they love this place that's what they're really marking are not the  if you ever came and look at the old chunky how how he really did it forty eight where my cousins lived twenty three now little in the paper he talks about the beautiful trees and everything that's around the place that look like bali this is not bali this is what this is we want to hang onto it hurt when i saw the video he took the video off but we've got a picture of it of his private beach that hurt that really hurt so my encounter with him that gentleman this bless his heart he's a landscaper this morning we are very dear friends he comes and he does the best he can every time i told him when is he going to cut down all those palms is a big touch my roof of the house well november twenty eighth i have pictures he didn't do anything up until then i come home from my vacation two days ago and my husband says mom look they're all cut they're all nice forty are what he's supposed to restore the garage in the settlement oh it's all broken down all of a sudden he's doing other things that he's supposed to do in the settlement hourly look can look out this is very disheartening for us unfortunately people didn't understand on the testimonies this morning because they had to go back to work to win but there were many of us this morning as you could the building he invited the community to come to his open house for the rooms that he built we came from to baskins thank you its importance in r and r and in our economy it was only through h and travelling that i came to understand the impact tourism has upon us whether strong winter summer spring tourists never take a break from vacationing on maui this affects us we don't have the space to practice our culture and evolve our identity as a people we have no respite from visitors but shouldn't our homes our towns our communities be the place where we have a reprieve from hosting accommodating and making room for guests from abroad we live on the north shore we live in part because it's a place for us for us the people of this i know to live to raise our children to be tourism is flourishing on maui and it has its place is to be key while mckenna all of the south and west shores have been designated for hotel industry much to the heartbreak of local people i strongly oppose any expansion of the hotel industry to the north shore baskins aggressive acquisition conflicts with the character of our people the intent of the properties he acquires and it upsets the quality of life for residents of the north suppose yeah it is nothing special i mean think of all the five star properties and accommodations visitors can have when they come to maui the only unique feature of the hotel is that it's the only hotel employees therefore what baskin offers his gas is tight yet how in itself he said it himself it's that it's a gen because nobody is there these tourists feel special because they're the only ones that are allowed to stay in this place very he operates our town our beaches our community for his gain but you know it is not she has to offer this council to intercede on our behalf that's going to have disregarded the county through his operations and he disrespected neighbors by filling our homes with tourists rather than famil his operation contributed to a degradation of the town's sense of community and it causes a deep sadness that put your town is no longer a place for us if baskin wants to operate a hotel  entrepreneur who offers a product let him take his into the south and west shore is where hotel operations are perfectly legal and welcomed lets see how well he prospers when it comes competition are actually tells not local families i urge  protect the residents of the north shore from his ambitions defend the community plan and insulate the local spaces we retreat to and call home hotels t v ours and his vision of development are not welcome in polio or anywhere on the north shore and my response to presentation is this for me his presentation was enough misinformation to distract this commission from its purpose i felt his presentation seemed so benign it's just a conversion of office basis there's no construction taking place my question is when does it end how many years before baskins next special use permit the truth is that it won't you'll continue to acquire and build and come in for permits to build to pave to expand it's not a hotel and a resort not yet but he is in escrow for three hundred forty acres across the street in response to comparative impacts seriously michael what business would rent your office space is above the party and be realistic  thank you and a question opposition to the special use permit for the party and for the past eleven years i've been an owner of the building adjacent to the pi and as well as an owner of the flatbreads restaurant i currently am president by your town association which organization i am not speaking for today comments are personal and based on my long and late experiences mr ask and his tactics and being as a neighbor you know i'm a simple person and i deal facts so i've seen the facts manipulation disregard of the county code violations in the rules in which the rest of the community follow and mr bascomb has not two thousand five hundred fifty thousand dollars fine for a legal sea wall two thousand and twenty back in the one thousand dollar fine for numerous and sure next to a building violations of ninety three hundred highway which are the improvements that he was showing in his video that building was a maori home grown market which was a one room retail space and so why i was on a memorabilia for sports testified this morning that's that's all it was her lease prevented her from occupying anything upstairs for ten years upstairs with a vacant drizzle historic use there is no watching the originals of the cajun rentals upstairs the only historic use of michael bass and paid attention to is the shoreline access that he blocks from all these community members that have lived and grown up and tell you the facts are that by and is not legal and has never been legal there was no grandfathers status there was no o does not follow the community plan and the facts are that the pi and is not a five room operation looking for four offices to be converted how do you have fifteen thousand bookings since two thousand and eight with a five day average day with five rooms how do you have thirty five employees staffing five rooms how does a landscaper landscape ninety three hundred highway when there is no landscaping other than potted plants his operation or the three short term rental houses in the forty eight ninety five b honda twenty three in all those ways and to governor abercrombie s testimony sixty five on a highway is on his website and is listed as a waiting venue they are interlinked the whole thing has been presented as one package perhaps inform they're different entities but in function he owns and controls every single property he speaks for he is on the trust agreements he's on the l l c agreements and i would ask the banks who's on the mortgage and what his cross allows the financing for these properties he is in control this is what runs a business this is not a five room t v our it's not a nine room t v or today it's sixteen rooms does not qualify for special use permit to matter what you see or hear you look through all the clouds and understand the truth of the scope of this operation it does not qualify for a special use permit is his plan is to build a look at this fifty rooms across four different properties he has identified sixty transit vacation rent two thousand and fourteen the pine department obtained a district court order to shut down a short term rental housing he went to the state supreme court and obtained in a state for due process where the due process for the community due process for the community is community plan amendment you want to introduce hotels into the cuny then let the community discuss it let them be baited let them out of the public airing the public meetings and let county council make the decision with all due respect this is not the forum for you to decide i don't believe you have the authority to issue a special special use permit for what he's proposing the scope of his trip advisor to all the p r that's been developed looks at it as one single operation thank you mari thank you for your time consideration plan which is lost the community life is on point long before the business leaves will get burnt it will not own up coming regardless who you are and the thirteen limit visitor accommodation to on or off the bike bed and breakfast establishments that are residential at both scale and character residential both scale and character and any proposed ban in practice is should not be situated near the the business people some of them vote in support not the community the community should supercede the b c p there is a reason this is not the venue when i sat there and as a prime commission years ago and always look at it lined up with what the asking for the second thing all based on these characters what type of individuals requesting a special use for me to call them special for reasons special use but anybody can use them you gotta be special so you gotta meet the creep to your own special the definition is a mental moral qualities they speak the of to an individual again the mental or we're going to have to live with it we've been dealing with all this for years the first time it came before us on the commission two thousand and five that's fine that was the first flying violation ever for an  i was a part of this commission community meeting about any of these what's upcoming so both as a resident know as a commissioner no thank you thank you and just a note for all the test fires we've got still almost ten people to go through here understand this is a very emotional topic sever and be courteous for everyone else's time in three minutes thank you cody wall was cody wallace and thank you for having us it's a great platform for the community and imo i was born and raised in my family still lives in the us a  you know and what he's proposing in his t v are like everyone's been saying the haiku community plan already says that that's illegal there's another thing  and he has a what he calls a deli but if you go in it's basically a restaurant which is also an illegal operation on his property so you know he's got a lot of activities activities going on that are illegal and use so proud about his building permits that he had but if you look it up a lot of those permits are after the fact so just in closing i strongly recommend that you well a chair and commission members appreciate your service i'm sorry i appreciate your service to our community my name is sarah sparks and i'm michael baskins wife and together we operate the play and while raising our two children over the past few years we've endured difficulties with the mouse planning department and have experienced firsthand how discretion by the department can be arbitrary and capricious we've been told the permits which were issued previously to us were no longer considered to be acceptable and that the director was choosing to revoke them we have been issued permits with certain requirements and then at the moment before issuance of a certificate of occupancy additional requirements were then suddenly required we've been told by many employees of the planning department and other departments that they could easily process our permit but had been told not to or they didn't know why the county was sending them out for another inspection because this was already approved or they're not sure where the county was treating us this way we've also been told by professionals such as architects engineers contractors and permit that they've never seen anyone else go through this kind of thing with the county or that the planning department was being unusually hard on us we've been blamed for blatant disregard of the permitting process however while we've been dredging through it ironically we have seen blatant disregard for the permit in process by and go completely ignored by the entire county system even when it's brought to their attention still we work diligently to protect and preserve the pay in because we care about this town its history and it future as well as the community surrounding it to add fuel to the seemingly never ending fire recently this small group has begun using social media to gain support against the pi and us personally i have followed many of the posts and have watched how false and misleading informations have been posted light and shared the power of social media is real and it is very scary to see how misinformation is spread and believed creating anger and hatred i believe this is the reason there are so many people here today opposing this matter if i think if people actually take the time to look at the reality of this special building this special small run family business and the role it plays in our special town and the negligible impact of this small four room change of yours they will realize that they are fighting against something really great play it in has preserved a small part of the history of our plantation town we have provided a place for visitors and residents to stay and help support the other local small businesses in town and we donate to local countless community groups and we hope to endure this madness so that the pain and doesn't become another t shirt shop and members of the commission i sincerely hope that you see the value that the pay and gives to the character of our town and i hope that you vote to approve this for room change of use mahalo for your time and thoughtful consideration to been able to work on that project hoping remodels start to finish as well the need for flatbread i worked on that project start to finish and put your in has gone through everything that the county permits everything required done that every change that's been come up six months after it's been approved they've done that they've been over backwards in my opinion to fulfill all these requirements that they keep changing and so much lower than theirs i'm just glad that they actually did the proper way to do all these permits and do all the issues which i kept telling them do everything right you know i mean works where the neighbors owner of a slab or pizza they've always said or going to aftereffect permits they never have they've changed their bar from one side to the other plumbing problems but never had they added permits they've actually read on the whole thing in every file you know is a special interest or is there a reason why one neighbor gets violation after violation and then work and they said no there wasn't and i'm here to say there was because i actually shifted it over so i can testify to that and the question is why is it fair to them one neighbor over the other and i'm just saying i am has done everything it's been required and on the other side that's been done anything and there hasn't been any response from the community and  but this guy has done everything as far as permits required and you know what my point of view he deserves a chance because he's done everything that the community and everybody is asking which is he's done it whether it's change youngest of five children oh my dad gosh he's sickly the reason i'm here is there's been a lot of changes going on you know the sad thing about is my dad was  he's eighty six now he was born and raised youngest of eleven kids at the same property and you know it came down to the point where because of all this going on we lived right directly behind where the going up my dad suffered a heart attack so you know because the driveway was always being blocked you know we told my dad the best thing to do is sell the property you know move because of his health issues the sad thing about what's going on in is that you don't realize that growing up we had the best childhood you know we had the beach open our bass gate we get to go to the beach you know we walk around our front gate we can go to the stores you know and so forth but a lot has changed and i cannot see one thing that anybody can benefit by this we no longer can get to the beach even to the side you know all the access has been blocked and a lot of us were born and raised there are people there that are here testifying today you know born and raised grew up there and so forth and i don't think that it's social media that is making people turn out but i think that people are just starting to they don't want to sell their place they want to stay there you know and we have to sell our place because we have to just for my dad's health issues but i just think that this would be really bad for you know because once you start there's the next person going to do it the next the next i live in haiku it takes me thirty five forty minutes to get to work in the morning i leave at six thirty coming home from my legal it takes me an hour and a half to get home because of all the traffic and so forth but i'm just here to see that i'm against this permit and i hope you folks will see and what i can said thank you ok if you look in the whole state of the way there's not another town like this you know it's a very unique special place and we go to pi because it is a very special unique quiet place the people there are all interconnected they all know each other the all support each other we're like one big ohio in a little plantation town and we like it that way and you should listen to the people that lose there because they know what's going on and when you have somebody coming over to play your town and bullies the way through and cheat lie and steal to the local people i mean that's the other intervenor has made a motion to intervene to deny and intervene or intervene they have the first presentation to the commission then there is a rebuttal by the applicant and then there will the ok and the other party ripping represent us please come forward  still how much time do you guys need i don't even know how many ten minutes frankly i have a pretty focused presentation that i want to do and a lot of the points are covered by people who gave public testimony so many hit on some of the same points and then kind of move on ok so will you do the first presentation and then we're going to have her and again i think the statements we need from the lawyers should be focused on the issue of intervention whether the body should be granting or denying the intervention if we can focus on that for well positioned includes other aspects so i'm going to just try and lead in to that spence and staff and corporation council my name is deborah right now i'm here representing francine our own as i told you who has spent a seventy year resident of town and play  i find as i get older i'm sounding more and more like my parents and so you'll have to bear with me because first thing i want to say is that this application is pretty much the cart before the horse which is what brought up the petition to deny or in the alternative our petition is alternative to intervene and the problem the cart before the horse portion has to do with the fact that the reason miss  felt the need to file something and to take this position today was because the fact that this particular piece petition has so many outstanding things that should be taken care of before you get to a special use permit for example there are outstanding requests for service there are outstanding violations there are standing elements of a settlement agreement fines and conditions such as full time manager things of that nature that haven't been met yet that those types of things need to be taken care of before you do a special use permit there are  you know we saw in the presentation where seashore properties yeah we have a certificate of occupancy for our deli our takeaway deli but it's not a takeaway deli any more than the restaurant it doesn't have a certificate of see for that and it's a it's a restaurant it doesn't have the parking this needed for a restaurant and that's why there is an application for a variance right now well all of these things should have been taken care of before you were approached with regard to a special use permit and not having the appropriate certificates of our tip and see for these things not having the appropriate variances granted y pending on the s m a minor permit for those four spaces so there's all these things that are out there that are loose ends where this shouldn't be before you and the most important one which was mentioned several times is the community plan the community plan is not something optional it doesn't matter if a community plan is twenty years old it doesn't matter if you think it should be updated it's it is required to be complied with by the commission by the planning department is not an optional thing under mouat county's own code we cite to you in our petition the provisions that say that as part of the community plans make up the general plan and it has to be complied with it's not optional and we also cited to you the case that says this is not something that the planning director or the planning commission can vary from they don't have the option to say well twenty years old times have changed we think that th the community it is flat out prohibits them secondly it says that there's not going to be hotel or resort development and the last one is where it says the objective is to limit visitor accommodations to owner occupied b and b set a residential in character so it talks about all these things and miss our own and says i'm not getting any of that right now we have a situation where things keep plowing ahead on the party and and then they keep doing things and then trying to fix them after the fact but in the meantime it's all progressing without th pacific permissions without the specific acts it needs to be done and one of the most important is that there needs to be an application for a community plan amendment before this special use her make can come before you and that  really is the fact of the matter and the the argument is well this is not a hotel it's an inn well there's there's no definition of the code for and somehow qualifies it differently than a hotel it is a hotel it is referred to as a hotel by the seashore properties they have a hotel in france they have thirty five employees and as someone testified that's not just for five rooms right there it's because they are on their rental properties that are all tied together in the same community and it is all part of the same thing now it's not part of the same thing when they want to be like in this and all of that kind of stuff and that's what you've got here it's the hotels ok it says it's a hotel that advertises itself as a hotel it has the staff our hotel has baggage handling and maid service and now a cafe even if that's not permitted so the real fact of the matter is is hotel uses are prohibited they're not part of what's supposed to be going on in the party your community under the party a community plan and that's not something that's just optional and so vision would be denied and a community plan i'm in that required before the special use permit comes before you with regard to intervention are requests for intervention was specifically couched as an alternative you know i would prefer that the intervention be decided after hurts because that's how this couch is designed to petition our allow us to intervene if this is it going forward but after the intervention aspect of self we're going to rely on what we have in our briefing to you on one thing i would point out is that when we put this in the alternative seizure of properties then said ok we first objective and then they said we're taking away the objection find send it to mediation do a contested case because they want this delayed or deferred but the fact of the matter is is not whether they object or not it is the commission who has to make the determination under the standards as to whether intervention is granted or not you know it's easy to say well they didn't object to it but at the same time that doesn't mean that intervention necessarily goes forward especially when the determination hasn't been filing a petition or motion to deny doesn't make you a party and so the issue of intervention is decided our rules say we can't act on anything until the issue of this invention has been cleared so it's  your motion that we're trying to teach her to determine and if we don't determine it then you're not a party so by our own rules we can't ignore the issues that you filed a petition to intervene and we need to clarify that and  can move forward and i do understand that i was saying that this is a difficult situation because of the way the petition was filed which i understand why it was filed why isaac filed it the way that he did but it puts everyone in kind of a difficult situation because of the way it is and while i do understand that i know that what this around doesn't want is too far or delay or things of that nature so that's why i'm telling you that i'm relying just on our that yet so i'm just trying to clarify for the board is if that's what's been and that's what we need to address and i need two other attorneys to give me their position on that  applicant has withdrawn its opposition to the intervention petition for the primary reason that this is obviously an issue that has invoked strong feelings in the community the applicant would like the opportunity to address the concerns with the petitioner for intervention and with the rest of the community the applicant had requested and some of you may have seen a postponement for that purpose to see if he could meet with with the petitioner and try to understand and address your concerns that that request was denied and the applicant here is obviously not responsible for becoming a tourist destination which appears to be what has invoked a strong reaction among a lot of the members of the community i can understand that the t i grew up in sixty years ago is not the same town as it was when i was a child i'm sure is not the same town as it was thirty years ago but that's changed and that's not something that can be laid at the accommodate change while still preserving what is the essential character of and the applicant has tried hard to do that it would like the opportunity to meet with an objective third party which is an opportunity the that is afforded through intervention under your rules that's the first step in any intervention proceeding in the event that the mediation is unsuccessful this does appear to be one of those cases where an intervention might nonetheless make for a more full record i think this is the type of case where having a hearings officer and evidentiary rules will help in narrowing what the issues are that are really a put the ball to the conditional use or the county special use permit before you a lot of what we heard today whil very heartfelt and very sincere is not entirely relevant to the considerations that are before you with the firm and i think having a hearing officer to help weed through some of that information first and then presented in the form of fine proposed findings and proposed conclusions on the issues that are before you might actually make for a better record without broadening the issues so for that reason we have withdrawn our opposition to the intervention we do not opposes we would like very much to have the opportunity to try and address some of these concerns because i think we are able to i think the applicant is able to i think he's sincerely made an effort and will continue to make an effort and i did want to and it was something corporation counsel has raised just procedurally i haven't really and wasn't intending to address very much the petition to deny the application because i think that is an example of the cart before the horse i don't believe that your rules would allow you to consider and deny an application or and then say ok well we're not going to deny it so we'll give you intervention i think as court counsel pointed out the intervention petition has to be decided before this body gets to the merits of the petition and votes up or down so i think there is that elements of the cart before the horse i did so want to just say because i've been hearing a lot about it today i just want to point out something in the community plan i understand that it is still in effect we all know that it's well overdue for an update but it is still in effect in the very very first sentence a community plan where it's talking about the purpose of the plan it is to advance planning goals objectives policies and implementation considerations to guide decision making in the region through the year twenty ten that's what it was designed for and that was its purpose let's look at what's happened since twenty ten i mean part of the community plan deals with the only visitor accommodations being impresses and let's not put them near the shoreline and let's have them on are occupied well in two thousand and twelve the city council adopted an ordinance allowing short term rental homes and i think as you saw from the map there are many of them in you know there are many of them on the shoreline and those are not on our occupied and then as the applicant pointed out in two thousand and fourteen the council adopted the ordinance that now allows for t v or units in the business country town so if i understand that the plan is still in effect the plan was intended to guide decisions through two thousand and ten certainly the county council is is no longer it hearing to this and what we're hearing is about the pros of bishan development of hotels and resorts there are no definitions in the in the community plan but if you take the definitions of development from elsewhere for example in chapter two all five are in your s m a ordinance you know development has to do with putting physical gases or liquid onto a property or increasing its use are the two intensity of use those are the two primary definitions as the applicant pointed out there is nothing physical being put on the rooms has continued for quite a while that's not going to be intensified and so the question is just changing for rooms from offices to sleeping rooms is that an intensification of use i think it's a pretty close question i think so if you have any questions for me i'd be glad to answer them but we do not oppose the intervention petition and would welcome the opportunity to try and bring about community harmony by trying to work with some of the community members who have such strong feelings but the fact of the matter is that she said that the five rooms have been used for quite a long time forward she uses but they have been used with proper permits for quite a long time for these  uses additionally i do believe the committee she plans to find hotel i think there is a definition in there which is a transient vacation rental and i would simply point out that the reason that mrs rona brought this petition to start with is because another thing is that the application before you would believe is incomplete it doesn't have a traffic analysis it doesn't have beach access him so and it certainly didn't have community meeting information as well as  a information being incomplete with regard to the intervention it's not adjacent to party and she is adjacent to certain of the other properties that we talked about as being part of this overall hotel  venture she does however have the problem of people walking across her property or gas and workers coming on to her property and things of that nature and as i said before for the rest but we rely on what's in our petition thank you thank you this time and open the floor or question from the commission  obviously just for the record we don't oppose the petition intervene it appears that is our own has interests which are clearly distinguishable from the members of the public and so to that extent we don't oppose the petition are i would join the comments from the corporation counsel advising the commission as well as this bunch comments that there really shouldn't be taking up the issue of the petition to deny this until we determine who the parties to this action are so in this particular case i think you know it's the department of planning's position that you should take up the position intervene ordered up voted down and then at that point we know whether or not subchapter for which contains the provisions on what happens see where intervention was granted and determined then it was there we need to go into mediation or do any of those other procedures and with those other evidence rules the only other thing i would just like to put out there is that  intervention is granted to any party and obviously that's ms rhona then by operation of rule two zero one dash forty one he upon admission of any intervene or the department of planning shall automatically be admitted  as a party to the contested case and so to that extent we would be participating in any further portions of the contested case or mediation so thank you ok commissioners any questions for you to party regarding the position or intervene we are to question and decide whether to grant or deny the petition and we don't know if they're a party until leave gone through our intervention process in an intervention you could have multiple parties you could have five parties and that's why we have in our rules an intervention petition process and we have an intervention when granted process so you don't want to be fielding four thousand petition motions and not know who you're dealing with because that's basically what's happened is somebody has attached a motion to a petition to intervene you're able to deal with the petition to intervene that's it i mean you can see the logic behind that right right not crazy right you don't want to be you don't want four hundred on every permit that's filed that's deemed a contested states right i understand ok so talk about starting a precedent let's let's start a precedent that says if there's a petition to intervene we deal with that issue to the dismay have some of the members ok i'm not going to read all the rules this is the nutshell if you grant the intervention our rules state that there's going to mandatory mediation that means the parties  actually have to talk to each other figure out if there are issues that they can agree on that would make it go away or that would settle it if they can't hearings officer is appointed and then they gear both sides they hear the case so it basically looks more like a court house hearing where you have an attorney present his case the other side gets to cross examine the other side presents their case the other side gets to cross examine documents are filed into the record and then there's a report made by the hearings officer and that's presented to you and then you're the ultimate decision maker or as bush like to  just for a nutshell that's kind of the process you know sort of reading all of the rules and the record commission roberson motion to deny second second  my plan commission is called back to order we have a motion on the floor to tonight petition to intervene discussions regarding his motion please see no commission roberson i would like to share my reason for the motion i proposed i believe in intervention of a persons well property interests in the land subject to commission action  donny somewhere i saw a document that showed properties owned by the bass bass and identified single family residences of this particular area along the seashore for single family homes adjacent to each other next to the ocean is that stat property owned by the i recall that was part of his illustration to show that there were more vacation rentals around town that not necessarily  correct i do i have a t v are in play that i own and also my yes i do have one d v r that i own and my mom has one and my dad has one and i manage them another one is owned by my father well to know injure and so my dad is eighty four years old my mom is seventy seven they live in coeur and i'm the manager of those properties they're in their names  i think that's one of the there yeah this is fine here i can use this one right here if you like it's it's not a very good map in detail i do notice that all permitted ones that we know of so ours miss our own is located right here and mine is right next door to her right there and i'd like to comment just for a minute about twenty three naleo the one that is next to miss rona about that property before that it was a home that i purchased in two thousand and one and when i bought it it was a vacation rental about it bonner richard donner and it was a vacation rental it had a conditional use permit application it was in process when i purchased it i paid and had it put into my name for many many years the application for that vacation rental was open and in process and when the new ordinance took place and came into play for the past year or age i was asked by the planner jeffrey dak if we wanted to go ahead at that point and convert the conditional use permit to a new ordinance we did that and we were one of the very first people to apply for and get a permit for that they cation rental it is permitted  it's always been permitted since the ordinance i believe we were number three or four and so just for clarity it was a vacation rental before i bought it and has been for more i guess you know more than sixteen years when we sent out the notice to the community within five hundred feet of us miss rona would have received notice disputed question and application which was done i believe in two thousand and twelve however the beach property that property had been a vacation rental for twelve years up until the patient was done so just for a point of clarity we did get it permanent we had always up to that point during the entire twelve years that we operated paid all of our t v our taxes operated it in we have  testimony from the manager of the pay in and we have testimony today from two of the staff that came out we've never received a phone call the baskins on that map that we see there with the rentals and do you manage any other properties besides the ones you just pointed out we don't manage but we do bookings for other ones so with for we do bookings for other vacation rentals to come up i don't know the answer to how many but we put some for example in stable road and in the area so if we should we have a travel agent's license so we do some bookings for other vacation rentals seashore properties has a travel has a travel agency license and release a license  seashore properties do they have that license to be honest with you i'm not sure it's the seashore or play end or both of them but i know we're licensed to operate as a travel agent i believe it's playing on that map do you can you i believe that each of the locations have their own laundry onsite so it's on onsite it's never taken to a central location and then process i don't believe that it's taken to a central site each each workstation has its we're building with the for all of us are what was that building that building was constructed and we finalized the construction two years ago when you made the building you made the building as an office for office space right at the time yes built because we guessed correct ok what changed between now and then why are you taking away the offices or to put in bedrooms i was it originally those of us who own it when we did the urban design review board presentation i was asked that question and the answer at that time was that at some point we did plan for it to become accommodation rooms but there was no ordinance that had passed to allow for it at that time it was going to require different permit process so we  that the properties that i own in place they are date back to the twenty's and thirty's everything was built to any building permits and so the difficulty has been the permitting process is very challenging so  these properties may not have been in compliance as if you walk into many properties in haiku and just about everything in the town was built with no permit and so the challenge is that if there's a complaint then a neighbor makes a complaint and you are in the complaint process then the county has an enormous amount of ability to basically make you go through a process of permitting everything and it's a real challenge to what was existing what was not existing and so we had to go through a very difficult process but we basically said if it's not if we need to get up and after the fact we will do that we don't think that after the fact permit is a bad thing we think it's a good thing it means that we're complying and we're working with the to make sure that everything is in compliance in that process you can be fined and so that's what happened to us essentially we received find at times we did not agree with it so we filed an appeal to protect ourselves and we went through a difficult process of an appeal but ultimately we reached a settlement and we agreed to make a payment and settle so that we were we had a good relationship with the county and that that is true and i heard testimony that we still owe some money that is true and it was agreed with the department that we would get an extension to to make that payment and that payment is not due when it becomes due we will pay it yes or yes it's coming up so that is correct yes and one of the facts i had is that is the department wanted to make a condition of approval certificate of occupancy that says delhi you operating as a restaurant well yes we are if you want to call it operating as a restaurant in terms of yes i would just say yes so you are in violation well there is a discrepancy in a few if i can if i can elaborate i would like to as i showed you we have a photograph that shows that the it's kind of like saying ok it's not illegal it's just non conforming that's right ok so if i have a non conforming let's just say i have a non conforming what are in my house  i see james busily looking it up but in short you have to use that was established at some time when it was legal or whether it was when there was no zoning at all and so there was nothing controlling the land time goes on zoning changes laws change and whatever that so that use can continue as long as there is a one year break in so ok so where i'm going with it then is zero parking stalls allowed for this building the applicant winnings presentation he went through and said ok this particular part it's zero parking stalls and the new part yes i can answer that ok not particular way so i'm going to ask the applicant then can you prove continuous use of that parking lot to validate your sumption that it's still what is it valid non conforming i'm going to put the burden of proof on you to say you need to prove that that actually happened that there was no break because we have a lady that gave us a lease agreement that i don't know if she used it i don't you know me to say so i'm asking you and you prove it is the question can i prove that the parking has been used continuously  it's a parking lot in your town at the parking space behind the in if it's been used as a parking i would assume that it has been used as parking and i've since i've owned it since two thousand and two two thousand and three it has been parking yes and it's been on every plan that we have ever had that was approved by the county and i want to just add one other thing when i got yesterday my question that's what i was so basically part of that you cannot you cannot speak to the use of that party going i cannot speak to the use of the parking area prior to my owning a thank you and commission mr a lawful non conforming everything i've never we have never looked at is in the way that you're looking at it now so i can't comment whether it's legal non conforming kind of filled us room today and are upset the fact that the gates are well i think that beach access is very important and we are open to providing that to you know to people the people that are here live on the beach their houses on the beach and so i don't think they're here to talk about blocking them off from any beach access misato around his house which is adjacent to our property on the ocean has beach access  so but terms of that there really hasn't been any beach access through our property that i'm aware of since two thousand and two and i'm not aware of any beach access that's been that didn't happen i don't have any testimony from anybody saying that to me at the moment no one is coming to us and saying that they want to have beach access why did you close it off  that to make the beach private no no and i think this notion of private is is is is and is not accurate i think it may be that somewhere we have an advertising on the that just says private beach access that's all it just says by the peach access meaning that once you're there you have the ability to get to the beach which  what was the reason for dating it ok it gets have been installed over the last twelve years there is a definite concern about security in place as well so for example at ninety five honda there is a gate that properties located directly behind the gas station so one point in time the gate was put up for security reasons if you've ever been to pay downtown you'll know that there's security issues so there has been gates that have been put up over the last twelve years and  so that's true but we're located just a few hundred feet down away from the public beach access we're not that far away from it you can go down and get to the beach access nearby i have a question here from th is there's property labeled number five which is twenty three dollars and there's a property labeled number four which is mind ninety five hundred highway and traditionally shoreline access came from one highway down although you turn to left those splits it goes straight to the beach which is has been closed off was all my sense is all rocky where you went left directing what's happening here that granted that mr arion agreed to a no two allowing mr baskin to build an electronic key gate where the two re access to the beach so this historic shoreline access comes from the neighbors who i have so as any make me ill is one of them she has a those was on the road there's about three or four families that were had provided i think you've seen the testimony where historically they've had access along other plays along that red and red line to the beach which is now closed off actually by several gates there's a gate at the corner and there's a gate at the beginning a place that's been built as well and i think in one of the testimonies and i saw there's four or five gates in total in stalls and according to your exhibit here so properties one two three four five six seven they are owned by mr bascomb they're all part of a portfolio of properties which were marketed  collier's and mr baskin is the owner and they were sold as a portfolio as a group and he has language in here that talks about developing potential architectural renderings renderings and plans financial projections on what to be done at these properties what they're currently doing he describes the pie in a hotel describes all these properties as part of that and these additional properties that support that operation and i think that that out excerpts from part of the show and just for the record you clearly did owner of which property i own the property just to the left of number one so i have a partner in the ownership of the property and i'm a partner in the business and i have three partners in the business in the restaurant  castro i have it in front of me now if you want to comment on that you know definitely first of all there's none of these properties are for sale this is a very old this is an old brochure just so you know that was dug up from years ago and it's not anything actually that was ever used all right it is it is i'm not sure how he got it but it is not an accurate portrayal of something that we have or use this was a draft of something that we were looking at using but it wasn't actually used none of these properties are for sale at this time just so you're aware ok just want to do that and there was a time that i was looking to raise capital to bring on a partnership and this was that's what this was originally intended for so does not have a listing on the property and the properties are not for sale just so you're aware but you do own these properties so they're all owned by separate entities some of these are owned by my mom and my dad and some of them i to not own  what about the gates sort of shoreline access to data yes i'd be happy to comment on that there has never been a historic shoreline access where he has indicated there that is private property there's never been to my knowledge since i've owned the property in twelve years any shoreline or historic access through that indication that's a fabrication on his part he owns the property right next door part owner and he believe it or not through his brokers and making offers to try to acquire some of my properties he has an agenda and in addition to that if it's ok with you i would like to pass out a map of the area that shows mr around his property and shows where access to the beach goes through her property and where she grants a basket is so you're denying the fact that the gates were put on those those areas whether it's private or not when you say those areas i think there's a number of properties easements that's on that right now are you talking about the red one yes and my denying that there is an easement deny gates on them as stated whether it's private property or not there is no public easement we do provide an access for one of our neighbors and we may have installed the gate over the last twelve years if that's what you mean yes thank you richard castro when i was that being said do you know he has any type of license to do the work and i'm not sure i believe he he's a carpenter a skilled carpenter and he worked under the direction of a of a of a contractor that we had at the and it was signed by d s a and recently when we have gone back to obtain the patio area the restaurant the park the d s a plumbing electrical all departments have signed off on it they basically came back out and said we're not sure why we're here again we already signed off on it and on the day of the final inspection for the patio dining seating area for the deli they asked me to go out and put up a sign showing the occupant load which they said will come back the next day and will sign on which we did it was a forty nine they came back the next day i've been in communication with the essay they do not understand why we are having to do a c e o for the patio area when they already signed off on it so rather than dispute it we have gone ahead and filed for that we will be required to have some parking we believe we have parking a ready off site parking lot that will qualify for that we're going through the process of cooperating wor the county to do that and another suggestion or idea is in passing this today if you wanted to make it a condition that we had the parking set up for that that would be fine with us no question  work everything was done under a contractor and so the contractor would have hired subcontractors to do the plumbing work and i believe that the plumbing work was done by a country plumbing if i if memory serves me correctly they are a licensed plumber and they did the work yes we did your electric feeling trickle work was done by r c electric yes i believe that that's correct i believe i have that name r z electric it was fully permitted inspected obviously all of the four room addition was fully done with contractors and done correctly and permitted the one thing that comes to mind in all honesty is a poll yes or no was that the neighbors around me would not support it and i have the cation rentals and and people come through there and i don't think my neighbors would support the public coming through that residential area keeping in mind that there is beach access just a few hundred feet down so the answer is no i would i would consider it something that you suggested it wouldn't be a project together so i feel like i can but i'd like to hear the answer from michael can you repeat the question if we were to stop the ship condition that public access the the traditional access point adjoining or on your property would you agree to that so would you be specific as to which property and where i mean i'm just not sure where you're talking about providing that distributed by mark bradley and the notion that it was never public and that he never supported it is completely false it could google pay in sales pacific business news there's a specific article where he's quoted about the sale of all the properties as a portfolio so it's a pretty extensive document to be making up and just keep in your back pocket that's my one column about that and then with the other respect to gender well that's that's just  we have not worked together but we have recently talked about doing a business together where we would be doing weddings correct it's not at the pay and did you read the letter yes i did i am a partner with michael baskin for the use of his property located at sixty five hundred highway our intention is to offer within events to the general public that is correct yes so at sixty five on i don't own that property  have a lease on that property and the intention is to partner with the governor and we are looking forward to doing weddings and events at that location have you done anything to now a type of weather an event that would that would want you to get into the which map that you like to look at ok anyone sure sixty five honna is located right here it's this parcel right here and i have a lease on this property and  not we don't intend to do any weddings until we have all the permit we have not begun doing any you want to time director are actually has met with the former governor and advised him and he explained he wants to do what ngs on the property i quite understand the partnership thing  we advised him that you need to get a conditional on a new commercial weightings on the property or changes owning and so on was sometime earlier this year and we haven't seen an application or anything  who can we refresh my memory is when somebody has a short term rental home they're only allowed to have one and not too is that correct that's correct but the way around that is they could probably say it's their mother's house their father's house their mother's other house they're whoever it is that's the way around a certain way then you can also lease a pro a property and since you don't own it can you also then turn that into a short term rental home i'm sure every lease has different terms but the commercial leases that i've an opportunity to look at it for us to understand that you least this large property that have a home you're in the law gene you're in the law gene business and you do nothing with this property and you just try to couple  events the property at sixty five hundred does not have a home on it right so what you're seeing is that you don't use this property at all it's just sitting there at present that that is correct we are planning to do we we have there's two buildings on it one was a restaurant if you're familiar johnny b as well as and then there's a building located behind it we did some renovations to it we got a certificate of occupancy to use it for retail and at present it's not we're not operating  using it at the moment we plan to in the future and have you applied for any in these conditional use permits to do weddings or events we have not begun this is sort of a new thing the governor former governor has written and port of the play in and we have a recent agreement with him that we've entered into and it is our plan to apply for all the proper permits to do weddings at remember his master plan of where hotels and motels and so should be situated no i don't believe that i local and that was to eliminate any kind of things that you are proposing and that is to have more time well yes in one particular location especially here because play is so inundated with their calls that knows no parking for you your in is right on the highway which means that your tenants can actually park right on that street because it's a public to your testimony to the commission you are very very conscious of community input etc yes so knowing that this particular area here is central about this particular area having this it's a good question the answer is no i would not be interested in doing that and let me give you a little background when i bought the building in two thousand and two i went to the county during the due diligence process and back then mackin day was the planner that worked back then and he was very excited about the idea of this property and said hey you should make this into a great in and that's what inspired me to do that and he said you don't have any parking requirements for this building but you have space behind it you can add on to this so for many years that was my dream was to renovate this property and to make it into a nice in and that's exactly what we've done we've put our heart and soul into this we opened up in two thousand and eight after doing an extensive improvement to it but we preserve the building the building was built in one thousand nine hundred seven as a japanese in that was the purpose of when it was constructed so i'm proud of the fact that i have refurbished this building and that's what it uses and that's what it's use will be going forward and we hope to do a very good job of running it which we are so good you know that that particular building that you're now i think the proper thing to keep in mind here as i showed in my presentation is that we bought this property we went through all of the permitting process of renovating it the planning department and the building department has already issued permits for improvements and every permit that we've had and we've had probably ten they all show lodging on this property so this is a this is a  that has been established we have relied upon that basically we've relied upon the county issuing us those permits for being lodging now we are coming in and we are trying to comply with a new bill that passed two years ago that allows for accommodations twelve rooms in the in the community in in this community and while the community plan was written twenty one years ago the point was made that there have been at least two occasions now where the planning department and the council has now provided for t v our use even after the the community plan was written those are now s t r aitches in the residential area and now this is a new ordinance we are the first to apply under it for t v or use in the business district that's what we're here to apply for we believe that this conforms exactly to that exact same  bill and i'm not sure if you were there but it went through a tremendous amount of vetting by the community everyone had a chance to come out and discuss do we want this in pie and people did come out and the council still voted eight zero to support this bill and the mayor signed it and we're simply applying a application under the current code of what's allowed as a use it requires a special use permit that's what we're here to ask for paragraph paragraph twelve and this is an application that was filed by mr michael j ryan which i assume was the predecessor of yours for variance in order to the property is unable to be used for its original purpose which is the dwelling and housing transit transit and plantation workers with the influx of persons in the area accommodation limited and a return to the previous use is warranted so from the standpoint of being a japanese it was in your words the japanese in it was a so the people lived up stairs and it was actually a dwelling and the additional bedrooms were used to house trance and should work so essentially was employed housing for the application it's in the staff report so you're not aware of that history and i am aware of the history yes so you agree that it was actually employee housing or farm or i don't agree with that but if i can bring up one of my consult to help comment on this on the use and that that would be helpful for me the how it was proposed when michael ryan was actually using it for t v are during that time and that he was gleaning information from what he was told as well too and it was used as as housing throughout time in other words how to explain this there during the course of its existence it had been used not only as housing but for  durational time periods if you look at the times that they used it it was for allied margene in tandem and and tenement areas earlier and that during those times people would come and go in there was about why there was no in definitions of the lodging house didn't actually state how long that person needed to stay there as long as they were not related to each other and that was one of the the the presentation within the presentation it stated in  served meals there yes it was an actual trial a commission a consulate ok since we have a little bit of he said she said on or he said he said on on the record i went ahead and google just a basket yes when when the question of trance and vacation rentals first came up i had a concern that there was so much money being generated by trance and vacation that it use the profits from that turn around and purchase another property and put it under another relative's step what you've done no not not not essentially no you didn't happen i would deny that is that yes i would deny that that correct i would deny that that happened so your father's property is a transcend vacation rental your mother's properties  they worked with me and i manage the properties and they have other properties that are long term rentals as well director and just as a comment and this is by way of history so the commissioners are aware when the short term in a home permit and i really have to come first when the short term rental home permit ordinance came out i believe is it was twenty thirteen there was a provision of the council put in there so to try to encourage people to come in and apply and come in and get legal the and one provision that said if you come in before the certain date you don't house to appear before the planning commission because you know there's that trigger that if you're within five hundred feet of another vacation rental you have to you know you have to go get a permit so that so the application yes mr baskin is mother and his father all came in at the same time that is true thank you for pointing that out so there was no one there was no requirement for for a hearing before the finding commission yes we did process all of those three  the second reason i just have to crack the record a little bit the reason we're here today for a special use permit is because of the terms of the settlement agreement that's rooms i think but really what prompted the application was after we went through this mediation process just about it was required to file a special use permit we had a dispute where you see believe there is room should be grandfathered in and we believe that they shouldn't and so we said ok let's go to the planning commission in and apply for the alternative ninety two since i'm not aware of thirteen complaints against the property against many three hundred in this particular report that was made it to us all of the against ninety three hundred against the subject property it's against the subject  commission to ask for the only thing that i'm aware of that is open right now is there was an awning which was now removed there was a sandwich sign  showing where the deli is which we removed and the only thing i'm aware of that are open at this time is the question about the parking for the for the deli patio area which we've applied for a c e o and we believe we have the parking offsite for as far as i know there are no other o s s that are open everything's been closed this is dated eleven twenty eight two thousand and sixteen and i can't thirteen items that are the i believe that there was there was a request by one of the commissioners to look at r f s over the last two years so that being the case that's what was included in the staff report and indeed you're looking at all of them that have been found for this property but the open ones were from two thousand and fourteen two thousand and sixteen now i want to make clear that an artifice can be something as is generic as i'm requesting a building permit from my neighbor because i have a question so in our office when we say it's always a complaint it's a request from can be requests for more information so in the staff report i did say some of these documents are simply requests for information by other r s s address specific issues of concern regarding operations on the subject property so that some of them are merit extensive concerns i e the parking with t i don't know how many of our complaints or requests for information you know some of the old boiler requests for service saying please give me copies of all the whatever thousand dollars worth of outstanding why not just why wouldn't you pay it before you come to us and ask for it because in our mediation process we went back to  mediation and we felt that there were things that the county had not process in terms of timeliness for our permits so we had a mediator meet with us and through that process it was agreed that we would be given an extension for us to make that payment and that's why so there was a date that was set in january for us to do that and we planned to do that and as i said if you felt that that was a condition that needed to be addressed here we could make that a condition i think is a natural thing own and again it was prompted from complaints and we had to go through a process of getting after the fact permits for those properties which we did and have been working diligently and difficult you know to do but we hired consultants and again all the properties had to be brought in to you know to get after the fact permits so the process of that was such that there were some violations that were issued there were daily fines that were issued by the county you heard my wife testify about how unfair we felt that that process was but ultimately we went through and got a settlement and in that settlement we had hoped to resolve everything we'd hoped that the county would be on good terms and work together towards a better future essentially and we agreed to pay what is what we think is a very large sum during the settlement was too much for us to pay and so we agreed to do it over a period of time and that's what was agreed to and so it was initially a twelve month period of time to pay that and at once the twelve months came up make the next payment and that's our plan to do so i would like to point out that this was a large number a large amount but it affected many properties it was not just one property and  so the properties and as i explained earlier there are all properties that date back for a look very long period of time before any permits are given director just for the record commissioners have that was in mediation and we cannot discuss that but it is not because we were untimely in issuing this commission actually answered my own question ok commissioner robinson i'd like to say something and i said who i want to give you some credit today you know you took in a lot of questions and i think it has been very poised but then i want to take it right back ok and the reason i'm going to do that is because i have i have opened built operated for different locations in mali and i don't have one fine i have done everything right i've done everything ahead i've hired the right people i've never thought that well you know what i've been a good citizen because i'm now going to come in compliance i mean to think  that we should actually want the back because you are not how coming into code is not how we want people to think that's called chaos when everybody thinks that way and everybody just goes and does whatever they want to do you have no structure you have no community you have no care of your neighbor you have chaos and i'm not going to let somebody stand and try to get credit for being chaotic it's not hard for a person like me to go ahead and do with four times i did it four times it's not that hard you walk into department and us what do i need to do to get this this this in this done and they give you a list and you check it all on by one you go to next department you check it off again and you hire contractors you hire contractors that actually have licenses i use r c as he's fine you know and it's not hard to follow a county law it's not hard to get building permits it's not hard to get c e o s it's not hard to get any of these things that you've been fined for thank you thank you these conditions we don't existed when i bonds are operating that michael michael i don't think there's a question you have a question for the applicant i just want to point out they exist when i bought the property ok commission down but we had testimony today that  at the time you're purchasing the property or representation that was a it was to allow your father to move to a warmer climate away from cooler so he could have a more comfortable place to live i don't recall it that way that would have been twelve years ago and i do not recall that every station that way up now i don't i don't recall that my parents did live in all of that is true they've been there for forty years and they did move down to cool a few years ago the house when i bought it was a vacation rental and again i want to stress one thing which i know is miss our own a property which is adjacent to that has  rentals going through her property currently today even just a couple of days ago wedding people there are a number of vacation rentals right in the city i just wanted to  saying twelve years ago that my parents were going to move into the property the question is do you know that that was part of the supplemental agreement that the planning commission made the final decision on rendering whether you get an approval of this from yes i'm aware  yes for the entire building has a fire sprinkler it was not a requirement we put it in anyway because we thought that it was an appropriate thing to do with people sleeping there we did put us a complete fire protection system sprinkler and of course every room does have does have smoke detectors as well yes question thank you commissioner robinson that is a good question is a fire sprinklers connected to a fire suppression system or is it part of your water line in order to put in the fire sprinkler system we had to put in a new connector across the street of pipe which went across the state highway it cost us about one hundred thousand dollars to do it and so we had to put in a new water meter we put in a one inch main water meter and then we did a complete fire sprinkler system throughout the whole property even though wasn't required we did it front area where you chicken people yes or location for fire i'm not aware one hundred percent i would have to get back to you on whether or not i just i know that it was fully permitted and it was installed just a couple of years ago and we did the construction for the four rooms modified the five existing rooms and put in this complete fire protection system throughout so it was done obviously by permit and only reason i asked him is they need to know where were the little things they would just lay there i think whe fire i don't know the answer i can find out about that i don't i don't know the answer to that that's a good question i'm not sure thank you any more questions from the commission entertain based upon the input of the community which include businesses and residents to chose to cover here and offer testimony it is my opinion that approval of the special use permit will have a significant adverse impact under social commission ga she i second the devotion because of the fact that i think when questions are as for the applicant to act against should be straightforward in giving answers yes or no and not beat around the bush which is very very suspicious about the kinds of things and comments that we get from the community about his character commissioner kendall i support the permit i believe there were ninety two requests for service that were filed on this particular property with thirteen of those that are reflected is open  i believe the applicant has taken affirmative action to close a traditional beach access that existed on his property and i will not consider reestablishing that public access which is one of the things that the commission has passed to do in terms of establishing beach access is where we can reestablish where we can  for the benefit of the public i also feel that is fail to comply with the community plan prohibition against hotels you're either a hotel or you're the applicant already has multiple short term ronald hall he has one under his name one under his parents names or several under his parents names and he has a transit vacation rental operation i believe the properties not zoned for hotel you and i share concerns about twenty seven in a building those built in one nine hundred twenty seven well let's get the two fires where the a surprise to many is i'm not very become a proponent for short term rentals now that might be a surprise but i think unfortunately this is what happens and i hope that the council will see this and maybe look at this and try to change this we have the cluster laws in but i believe what happens is when somebody sees the volume of money that they make and then they get to and then they get three three takes over and somebody who maybe never had the tension to have to review cation home until somebody who never meant to make a lot of money and start it it changes them it changes them as part of community the i mean mr baskin might have started off with the best intentions when he first bought it but god money can change you and you know this is this is the reason why short term rentals should be limited to want to two years and don give them a short term and never in perpetuity or forever if they're going to get it get it for short term to get them to that bridge to where they have to make some money to fix their home but not first ten fifteen years not when you get three four family members this is this is not what residential communities were made for that's what resort to me before and that's another reason why i'm not a proponent for short term rental instead of a thirty thousand dollars car so the applicants talking about oh it's just for office space but it's not just for office space it's that's not what this is but you said you to pregnant or not he's operating the hotel in conjunction with his property his mother's property and it's property that you know he's said that so it's but it's sixteen rooms not twelve so it really is a hotel even by definition so that's part of my issue which so then you know we're not in points with community plan or zoning  you know the other thing too is is you know i have planning commission me dreams now and i woke up in the middle the night and the word scariest came up in my mind and i had to google it just to make sure i  but i thought it was what i was and it just seems as though the applicant in the way that he goes about his business can be nefarious and that plays into this for me because it it has to do with the effect that he makes on the community and he's a very good businessman in certain sense he's made a lot of money and that's he has a skill set that i don't have and he's good at what he does however operand your mode of doing business is to beg for forgiveness rather than ask for permission and then you come to us and ask for permission when you didn't in the first place if you're coming application of the first one wasn't even complete it's like i just i just don't i don't understand that part so you know it's i didn't feel just even the way that the applicant's whites jumped up and wanted to jump in that's what the neighborhood feels and so i can just get that same sense right now so it's just like these are going to be an adverse effect deleterious effect or adverse impact deleterious effect yes and then the other part too that this all go back to is on the record the applicant said that he never put it for sale and then he got called out on it and we found out that it actually was and then he said oh no i said that it was on holidays so even to us the short time it's like that's the same thing in the community field so i will be supporting sort of supporting the commission dani one thing that i'd like to put on the record  and when you nor all of the above and without notice a violation with a fine and the fine a cruise on a daily basis i've never seen an applicant come forward to us with a hundred and ninety thousand dollars was a fly that had violations for it's just my be in the arrears of one hundred ninety thousand dollars i just don't i don't see it and i don't see why there should be the privilege to continue to operate by commission and cancel second by commissioning castro