i'm not talking about that what insured are you referring to that has some kind of action that would warrant review that is has  has several thresholds for the past year and frankly i think it's going to be uphill the first threshold is with respect to its interest in other companies and other why why shouldn't he demand his hearing go before that administrative hearing officer and say if you don't have jurisdiction to decide my debt to the city i have the right to go to the trial courts and have this debt resolved and follow the room with the administrative perceiving always contesting the callistus jurisdiction before going through the process and always you can always lay out that position in front of an administrative agency you say we don't believe you actors fiction we're going to go through the process and then in the got a right to a jury trial or because you're saying there's no authority for them to conduct hearings when the municipal code allows them to you have hearings when there's that over by someone to the city well  looks to the rationale of saying it's not right why isn't it right because there are still some discretionary calls to be made where the dispute may not really manifest was we found contaminants in the twelve acres right and consequently even though there was no formal proceeding taken up of there was a specific finding  and sometimes it's a very close relative the subject matters because if there is no standing it can mean there is no just fishable kind of traverse which we would then have to consider you're calling for an advisory opinion over which we don't have subject mr paul good morning world and i ask you a question for a little start can we focus for the moment i didn't notice of employed indebtedness that mr polish street received on august twenty first just let's pretend for a hold him be requested in publicized for the freedom of information act as well as posted on the city's website if you want any paid by you must come into compliance within thirty days by doing one of the following that this isn't a liquidated property damage claim that you're making in your calling it a debt when in fact it is and he's asking the trial  you admitted that you sometimes used two thirty two three ninety two for recovery and that you sometimes use one twenty zero to all for recovery when the second day sometimes you point according to this letter that you don't even mention the department of administrative hearings in this letter he doesn't have any knowledge at all and he's got a right to a hearing cording to this letter well he gets two choices pay it in full or pay a time or be subject to the possibility that you're going to be fired and you're going to be posted on the website is a deadbeat and you don't think he's in jeopardy well then he doesn't have the justice a pole right that he can force to prevent you challenging the right of the new administrative agency to the city to enforce this kind of claim now if he's challenging your jurisdiction to enforce that claim what does he do wait for you to decide authority showing that there is a right suit or a trial this kind of we haven't had that one yet but that's the next one coming up the jury trial but this is just the one challenging need whether or not you can adjudicate your property damage hearings to hear these things if the hearings request it at all this is triggered by this letter e c which doesn't say anything about it department of administrative hearing hearing is not triggered by this letter second fact that i owe you one hundred dollars and when i wake up i get this letter that says all when incidentally you all mr paul a hundred dollars were not telling you when we made that determination our father was adjudicated we're just that these actions here are that that prerequisite would be there with the city employees damaging city property and for whom you have a right to  property damage action he has the absolute right to have this decided in a court of law he has the right to a jury trial and he is not getting that at this administrative level and he yes or no answer on that question from the trial greg either the trial judge answers this question and says it's appropriate for administrative hearings i to cover these kinds of cases or it is not that's what he wants the court to do is no jurisdiction for the department of administrative hearings to be hearing these their property damage and let's say there's no jurisdiction what those cases say that you when you're challenging and attacking the very deare court made in cases of actual controversy that's going to be part of the problem with this case of course make binding declarations of rights having the force the final judgment whether or not any consequential relief is  now listen to this next plus including the determination of the instance of anyone interested in the controversy of the construction up any statute municipal ordinance or other governmental regulation sure his prayers for relief asked the court to construe the municipal ordinances saying basically they don't have a right to collect this debt until it's been determined it really is a debt and they certainly don't have the right employers take the position as a matter of practice at least in my experience and i'm not taking judicial notice of it at all bad points you get garnishment the workers generally we're beating up on you or something is very cool that's a cello and it certainly isn't a sign of where we come out on this thing but let's assume that mr paul less three i wish driving his private automobile still an employee of the city but off duty and he did a city ambulance and cost forty eight thousand dollars in damage that's what the other guy but now we're making him the city employee he's driving his private car insured by state bar and you s property the state farm which is probably just in their contract of insurance to reimburse him for damages damages he causes in an accident i do they have standing to come in once he gets this think that it's right enough with this demand letter for him to tender his the fans to its carrier and force the carrier to accept or could the carrier reject it and say no we haven't gotten any action they ask for it precisely in that form all a said was you know you set up a system here which basically in our judgment is inappropriate for an administrative hearing and this is really  and you know there's plenty of public policy underwriting in the us supreme court opinions that are pro pollution control cases basically  up now and litigate later and i'm not sure that although you would like to shoehorn this eight hundred ninety five dollars debt into a serious pollution problem it's not the same thing