i was thinking that if i said i'd like to ask unanimous consent that would bring out the republicans quickly meeting of the committee will come to order we're going to start off this markup with opening statements and without objection the chair and the ranking member will have five minutes and each members that each member they're after will be a big job our nation's economy is floundering and we need to respond we're in a deep and long recession our unemployment rate is over seven percent and growing we urgently need an economic recovery package and we need it immediately our committee has jurisdiction over three of the major pieces of the economic recovery package and that is what we will be considering today the first piece is an investment in expanding broadband internet access so that businesses and households in rural and other under served areas can leak link to the global economy band investments are important because they have a  effect on our economy the second piece involves investments in clean energy technologies these investments in renewable energy smart transmission grid and energy efficient in energy efficiency put people to work clean our environment and reduce our dependence on foreign oil the final and biggest piece of all those investments in health we need to create new jobs by investing in health information technology we need to help workers hurt by the recession by providing health insurance and we need to strengthen the key safety net by increasing the federal contribution to medicaid taking these steps especially raising the federal medicaid contribution will increase state spending and help our economies recover this is a lot to do but it is essential as people lose their jobs they lose their access to health insurance and without a regular income they cannot afford to buy their own coverage if we don't act now the recession will accelerate over six million americans will lose their health insurance states will cut medicaid and sick chronically ill and disabled americans will be badly hurt in total over fifty million americans could end up without any kind of health insurance at all given the magnitude of the economic problems our nation faces  task today will not be easy that is why i'm asking for members cooperation and assistance in moving this legislation forward we've been given only a short window to consider this package so we must report this bill by the end of the day like many members on both sides of the aisle i wish that we could have taken more time but this is not an option i've discussed this situation with miss barton i have told him that my intention is to a lot no more than two hours to consideration of the broad bed provisions no more than two hours to consideration of the energy provisions and no more than six hours for consideration of the health  faster than this but i am committed within the time we have available to allow members the chance to offer and debate the most important amendments in the interests of the committee the congress the uninsured the economy and the american people i urge us all to act pragmatically quickly and with the usual resolve to pass this legislation and start our nation on the path to economic recovery mr barton i want to recognize you for opening statement thank you mr chairman before i give my opening statement i would like to take a point of personal privilege i know that you know this but our colleague mr rick boucher virginia his mother has passed away he's not here because of attending the funeral arrangements and mr chairman are those of us that prayer our prayers are with mr boucher and i would ask unanimous consent if we could have a moment of silence for mr boucher his family without objection we will ask for a moment of silence thank you mr chairman mr chairman today we're going to mark a five different committee prints the areas of broadband internet deployment energy and three health care titles represent the provisions of our committee jurisdiction in the stimulus package that the president in the democrat majorities are putting together is i've told you and i want to tell the audience i respect the right of a new president to have his agenda her agenda as the case may be put before the american people and in our discussions as you correctly pointed out i did agree to the time frame that you just announced having said that i think the pressure that you're under mr chairman but it is truly an insult to this committee and i would say to the committee system that we couldn't have several weeks to review this perhaps have a three hearings on each section of a hearing on each section of the bill so that we could get a little bit more information before we make some of these decisions i have told my members that we we are going to abide by the time limits not go obstructionist but we are going to offer a number of what we think are very constructive amendments and i would hope that the majority would listen to the debate on each of these amendments and perhaps allow the committee to work its will on some parts of the bill again there are two hundred sixty nine tax pages in this bill and we we don't even yet have a c b o score on it with regard to some of the sections in the bill the base print in the energy tidal has a provision that if if our efforts to conserve energy bear fruit and we actually use less electricity we give the governor of the state the authority to approve the right of the utilities providing like tricity to raise their rates to offset the revenue loss because of the conservation gains in other words the bill before us has a federal guarantee of revenue generating companies that are providing electricity of america i think that is very anti market very competitive and had mr markey and myself were able to get in the bill last year provision that gave the patient the right to give consent before certain sensitive medical information was shared that has been dropped and so i'm not sure if we have an amendment on that but that is one of the flaws in the in the health title we also have a in the health title that gives individuals who lose their job but have private insurance the right to continue that private insurance and the government will pick up the health care premium sixty five percent of the health care premium the individual has to pay thirty five percent on the surface that's that's not a automatically bad idea but there's no means test or revenue test if broker working for goldman sachs with a net it with a with a net worth of one hundred million dollars loses his or her job under this bill the government picks up sixty five percent of their health care costs and if that person goes back to war or design or stand the bill the government still picks up the health care costs of their health care premium that's not right and so we're going to have some amendments that deal with with that mr chairman i've got about six or seven other pages here of comments but i'm going to the spirit of trying to move the process just ask that my entire written statement be put in the record and you know back in my time again we do appreciate the right the opportunity to have some debate on this and i guess before i end i should recognize that  we do have a new member of the committee mr steve schoolies and i'm told that before we actually start the markup we're going to do the formalities to prove him being on the committee and we want to  him in louisiana tradition if he wishes to join us at some point you can serve on both sides of the aisle as well i will now proceed to opening statements for members who wish to make them but let me ask  need to get a better assessment of america's broadband deployment and service attribution the provisions will also spock's sorely needed economic development and job creation and ensure that the public the rise the maximum utilization of the broadband network to taxpayers but and through the grant program contained in the bill the energy provisions contain invest helpful investments that will ensure the promising technologies like plug in hybrid batteries in the latest solar cells also promoting more r and d from our nation's universities so that we build this modern electricity grill grid will make our homes and buildings more efficient and in the area of health i t i'm glad to say that many of the provisions which congressman rahm emanuel know with caps and i had in our trust back there in the security breach notification restrictions on the sale of medical chairman and i to join with mr barton in saying and i'm very disappointed with the with the process that we're seeing today a bill that's going to cost more than fifty billion dollars b is in big an actual spending no hearings no subcommittee markups full committee with a timeline set by the democratic leadership to start and finish today so that it can possibly be up on the house floor as early as really the first business day of next week perhaps there is no reason for that process just to start off that way off the analogy to sausage is used for legislation well with apologies to my georgia friends  i would have to say that this process is more like a bad sausage with a big big dose of peanut butter and i'm not sure that that's the right white way that we ought to go these are challenging times and they did in fact demand nothing less than bipartisan cooperation and solutions to address the recession that not only michigan is in big time but obviously the rest of the country as well and i look forward to offering a number of constructive productive amendments that i would hope would have some for the record but before i do i would offer two brief comments we're discussing funding for rural broadband infrastructure is important that we carefully define under served and i'm sure the committee report the legislation gives discretion chairman my remarks will primarily concentrate on the health care portion of this legislation and i am concerned that this very large spending bill may not be the answer to providing the kind of health care that we need in this country  in fact many economist of indicated that the great depression was in fact lengthened by many of the spending programs of the new deal while i agree that congress needs to ensure that everyone has access to health care we need to be sure at the same time that the mechanisms through which this goal is achieved should focus on providers and patients by promoting competition choice and transparency of health care costs not only large scale expansion of government programs that are already on the road insolvency in fact in only two years this legislation is estimated to increase the federal share of the medicaid program by a whopping eighty seven billion dollars alone so what is also troubling is the fact that billions of these taxpayer dollars may be used to pay for health care for illegal immigrants if steps are not taken to revisit the provisions that were contained within last week's s chip legislation passed by the house the american people i don't believe want more welfare they want more freedom they want more innovation more efficiency and more accountability and welfare programs like medicaid i believe the true way to stimulate the economy in our nation's health care sector is to bring price transparency of medical items and services to the forefront bit of hitting patients and providers the insured as well as the uninsured as many of you will recall i attempted to offer several men much during committee proceedings last fall to address this lack of price transparency in the health care arena we believe that we have taken those concepts and refined them and hopefully members of this committee will be able to support them today it bears repeating that the number one cause of personal bankruptcy in this country are exorbitant medical bills which american families on main street simply cannot pay with that in mind if we really want to stimulate the economy and protect hardworking american families it is critical that we include these transparency provisions within this legislation i'm pleased to see that we that the leadership is strength is prioritizing health care information technology and i certainly think that is a go that is worthy of being reached i would have hoped that it would have come before this committee on its own right a freestanding bill mr chairman i thank you for bringing this through at least a semblance of regular order and hopefully we will be able to address it in that regard thank you mr deal you want to say one last thought i couldn't tell whether the clock sort of skipped on me there is not time up well thank you goals first they will help jumpstart the economy second they will protect access to health coverage and third these provisions invest in the future of our nation's health care system the key health provisions of this package would provide billions of dollars and siskel relief in order to help states maintain their medicaid programs at a time when their revenues are decreasing and demand for services are increasing it would provide access to health coverage for the recently unemployed by improving cobra coverage and a new medicaid state option and finally the package would modernize our nation's health care system by investing twenty billion dollars in health information technology mr chairman now is not the time for the faint hearted now is the time for bold action this package will help jumpstart our economy and help insure millions of americans while investing in their future and i urge my colleagues to support these provisions thank you thank you very much mr perle and the gentleman from kentucky mr chairman thank you very  and telecom and we won't like to be unbiased in our approach to this issue but i'm let's say that when and one day in an effort to get the stimulus package out the door we're making substantive changes in the laws in energy in health care and in telecom major substantive changes and on the health care provision alone in the next three years under this proposal we're spending eighty nine point one billion dollars and we do not know for certain what the cost is on the energy package or the telecom package so i think that the process and to the extent that many of us simply are not aware of the provisions and have the opportunity for an open debate is disappointing but recognizing the importance of moving forward we do look forward  offering some amendments that we think can help improve it and we appreciate this opportunity thank you very much generally from california thank you mr chairman for scheduling this all important spectrum have advised us that are amongst the most important investments for us to make that they will not only help stimulate today but lay the groundwork for america's future  one is the grid to upgrade it to reform it to revise it the other is health information technology which is included in this as is the first that i just mentioned and the third is broadband we know that our country has the undistinguished position of being anywhere from fifteen to seventeen in the world in broadband penetration and so we are taking steps in this legislation to correct that in my view america should be number one we should not settle for anything less included in this bill is something that is very important and that is net neutrality certainly some of my republican friends and democrats and the bells will argue that this will deter carriers from applying for the funding my response and i think our joint response should be that these are public dollars and that net worths networks built with this funding should be open and should not block certain applications or content so i'm very pleased about what's in the bill and i also would say to those that are saying we're moving too quickly there's an old saying that some can watch while rome burns we do not have the time to burn time while america's economy is falling down and cracks in pieces around us this is as urgent as it comes and that's why i'm proud to support it i do wish that there were other things that were in it most frankly but i think that these are the essential building blocks not only for recovery but  important vestments for a future thank you thank you mrs issue the gentleman from illinois mr shinde because i think mr chairman i i'm just going to take a different tack today i think most of my colleagues would expect me to start fighting and scream and kick and but i but i can really before the committee as a whole to you know to let folks know that my former legislative director of many years passed away last night  lucy who's almost two years old and ray was very helpful on the energy debate diesel technology clean energy security of course a lot of my positions  shimkus we would like to extend our condolences to his family both personal and professional we're sorry to hear this news joe would like to recognize gentleman from texas make policy decisions to foster improve broadband develop employees language also create a grant program to fund broadband deployment in under served and unserved areas but i do have concerns about the speed and open access requirements placed on the  while the speed requirements of our forward looking arm a purpose of the bill is job creation i hope that your leadership will reconsider the language protect the open access requirements and the disincentive it may create for some of the companies best suited to broadband and create jobs the months ahead the bill does make investment in health care services and coverage this in this country during tough times and as chairman i'm almost done most out of time but i think the health care portion is probably one most important in the bil i'm glad it's included thank you mr green gentleman from arizona mr shattuck and i thank you mr chairman i thank you for holding this markup it is important for us as policy makers in the nation to articulate our views on this critically important topic we have different views and i appreciate that there is an opportunity being provided by you to discuss those different views this is a massive spending bill it spends a of money which regrettably we don't have which will have to borrow i appreciate the opportunity to participate in this hearing and to offer amendments and engage in discussion i particularly appreciate that the president invited the minority to proffer their ideas on how we should stimulate the economy there are different views i could wish very much mr chairman that there was more information that accompanied this legislation documenting the number of jobs each action is believed to create but we don't have that information i am deeply concerned that the c e o s said much of this money won't be spent for several years many of us believe we cannot borrow and spend our way out of this problem i understand the need for jency by the majority they are in fact in charge and all we can do  appreciate the fact we could debate these policies and then see how they work i certainly hope for the benefit of the nation we are able to strengthen our economy and benefit all americans thank you mr shattuck family from colorado on this to get thank you mr chairman mr chairman as the economy worsens and people lose their jobs they lose also lose their health care and the health care provisions of this legislation are going to be particularly important not just to stimulate the economy but also to ensure that people can have quality health care and for them and their kids i want to thank as we go through the chairman for working with us on the chairman's mark to help us with funds for the medicaid disproportionate share hospitals because as people lose their jobs and health insurance these hospitals become increasingly burdened and many of our hospitals are already at the breaking point this will help them be able to treat the under served i also want to thank the chairman and his staff for working with us on the broad band grants so that all the advanced technologies including satellites will be deployed in the expansion of this network it will be important for all consumers but most especially  the gentleman from pennsylvania mr pitts do you wish to make an opening statement thank you mr chairman thank you for holding this mark the problem with the plan that's being put forward is that as i said it's  not an economic stimulus it's primarily a massive spending bill according to the nonpartisan congressional budget office only seven percent or twenty six billion dollars out of the two hundred seventy four billion planned spending on infrastructure projects would be delivered in the economy by fiscal year two thousand and ten just one in seven dollars of the massive eighteen half billion expend year on energy efficiency and renewable energy programs would be spent within the next eighteen months plans to bring broadband internet service to rural under served areas will take years to implement only twenty five percent of clean drinking water projects can be completed by october of two thousand and ten and i think in time of serious economic hardship the american people deserve better economic stimulus should not be special interest grab bag they deserve a real gentle lady from illinois mr costin thank you mr chairman the latest figures in the illinois department of employment security show that unemployment in my state is at seven point three percent a fifteen year high and higher than the national unemployment rate so the passage of this legislation will save and create jobs support those harmed by the economic downturn and lay the groundwork for a strong economy moving forward we have a responsibility to act promptly and wisely i want to highlight just a couple of provisions first this bill provides a one hundred percent increase and why there is a funding to help make as energy efficient providing relief to those struggling to pay energy costs second it provides a critical temporary boost  federal medicaid assistance with low revenues an increased number of uninsured residents illinois experienced a one point five billion dollars shortfall last year they would provide health coverage options for those losing both their jobs and their health care access to cobra benefits giving states an option to expand medicaid and these fixes are are critical but also points out the need for a comprehensive reform that guarantees health coverage regardless of economic conditions and i hope will act quickly to  job saved quote unquote it cost two hundred twenty two thousand two hundred ninety seven dollars the private sector in two thousand and seven on average created a job for about a fourth that amount fifty thousand dollars the eleven appropriations out of one hundred fifty two in this building generate one point eight million jobs cost a grand total of only sixty five billion dollars so there's enormous amount of money being thrown at this problem and in fact the government will have to go borrow two trillion dollars in the coming weeks the bond markets have never dealt with this kind of borrowing before this is amazing to me we have about a minute to lay out our concerns on a bill that is going to dramatically change the course of this country and our children's future the two trillion dollars is going to have to be borrowed in the coming weeks will be borrowed hopefully by foreign governments and they then will send the bill back to our kids and grandkids this is an abomination the way it's being done thank  weldon mr initially thank you thank you that's the staff i just want to point out something that's really really smart in this bill which is basically calling for the states to move forward on building code improvements to save energy and on provisions to allow you to let these to sell efficiency besides electricity and i want to refer the members to a graph that i hope might become familiar with as we talk about energy in the next couple years that is up on this chart over here it's hard to read it basically this is a graph provided by the mckinsey company looking at where you can save money where you can make money by changing your energy policies and if you look on the left side of the graph everything below that line are things save you money that actually make money for the u s economy they don't cost you a dollar and they're all efficiency they're more insulation they're better windows or winter improvements in computer technology and what we see is everything below that line saves the u s economy money in its efficiency now there are some other things that may cost money in the short term over the right side some of the more expensive production systems but that saves energy and what this bill is done is directing the governors to assure us that if they're going to take two or three hundred billion dollars they're going to agree to move forward on enhanced building codes and provisions to sell efficiency as well as  electronics now it's not as strong as some of us would like we were going to look forward to either now or later to a provision to condition the receipt of some of this money and actually achieving these actions but it's a great first step for this finally have a today it was received in my office at nine twenty seven today giving me no opportunity to look through this with i think significant questions like n t i a is that actually the best do we see to do this there's already two or three other agencies that have expertise in this why are they involved what is the definition of broadband here what is unserved versus under served  what is i've spent a lot of time looking on broadband issues over the last few years and i've never seen the terms of basic broadband service versus advanced broadband service what the heck are we talking about here but yet billions of dollars are go be based on someone in n t i a i guess defining those for us here today we're spending dollars significant dollars for this plan that's i think is necessary but is it redundant to other agencies efforts right now are we going to conflict are we going to double up we talk about in here and one of the sections that to be eligible you have to can provide  some information on how you're going to get computers out does this mean that the for those under served areas in an urban core or the issue isn't whether you're wired or not it's whether you can afford a computer does the plan for the under served areas require that you have to provide computers to households now this is something that i think we're authorizing here with this language we've had no hearings this is just the wrong type of approach for something this ma do we need to have a foundation for the twenty first century so we can be competitive that everyone in our country has access to brad broadband absolute but delivering something to us that nine twenty stubbing and asking us to vote on it recovery and reinvestment bill i applaud your leadership in the areas of health care energy and broadband technology the bill is largely an excellent one and i commend you and your staff for the very hard work that went into this recognizing how serious and dire our economic situation is for our constituents and our nation i'm going to touch quickly on the issue of health information technology which is an area in which wisconsin has been a leader and i'll submit for the record a more detailed  statement outlining the points that i want to raise but i want to say first that early adopters of health information technology it's important that we protect him make sure that they are not unduly penalize through our process i know another focus in interoperability and i hope that we incorporate the standards developed by the certification commission for healthcare information technology i would also encourage those federal standards to be a national bar not allowing for a complex system of state regulations that providers will have to deal with and lastly i hope that we would like to ensure the bill's privacy provisions do not jeopardize public private partnerships such as those in wisconsin and throughout the country which  know americans are suffering through a painful recession so there's certainly no question about the need for stimulus in fact yesterday in michigan our unemployment rate reached a new high of ten point six percent so really the nice michiganders understand the need for stimulus unfortunately when you look at this there is not much demureness in this there are some laudable lot of things in here on energy but because we've had no hearings it's pretty hard for us to even tell the majority that there is provision in here if you save energy it allows energy companies to charge consumers more for saving energy so they save energy their energy bill or their monthly bills go up that's in this bill that's not a good idea and if we'd had the opportunity to allow people to petition their government like it says in the first amendment it's not about us being able to talk it's about people who will be impacted by this bill they ought to have the right to come to this table and say hey wait a minute according to the first amendment i have the right to tell you congress what my concerns are about this bill we have taken away america's right to petition their government by having no hearings and spending what if it all goes through two trillion dollars two trillion dollars in the next few months affect on broadband people who have been involved in expanding broadband in this bill will not be eligible for the money so if you've been doing it all along and investing that money and trying to bring technology to every corner of the united states you are ineligible for receiving broadband money it would have been great to have a hearing to allow people to petition their government to say hey wait a minute did you think about how this might impact us japan has said that they will stop buying u s debt their one of our largest debt holders imagine what this bill might do to the value of the dollar i sure would like to have some folks who may be impacted by this as in every consumer in america have the right to come to this table and petition their government and say hey wait a minute did you think about what would happen if in the next two weeks you add two trillion dollars of debt to the bond market what will happen to the value of the dollar what will happen to people who are by will people continue to buy it will they onload their debt we have some serious serious challenges in here that may do more harm than good and i would hope mr chairman that we don't make a habit of saying that we're going to disregard americans right to the first amendment to petition their government and raise today it's certainly timely i represent the fifteen poorest districts in the united states of america my people are hurting i represent a rule district in eastern north carolina and things are not so good right now  poor getting poorer many in the middle class are being pushed into poverty cities and towns and counties need a lifeline to be sure one of my counties i have a thirteen percent unemployment rate one of my major towns has a ten percent unemployment rate we need a lifeline now we need investment we need recovery and i don't see any other way to do it mr chairman i support this legislation biggers debate today and passage later this evening commerce committee chairman waxman before i begin i want to congratulate you on your election the chairmanship of the energy and commerce committee i look forward to working with you on issues of importance to the nation and to my constituents in the first congressional district of oklahoma as a member of this committee i consider this markup to be important in an effort to stimulate our troubled economy the scope of the bill before us is wide and that it touches energy health care and telecommute cations policies which are vital towards ensuring the economic growth of this nation however i wish i had more time to address the legislation through normal committee process so that all members of the committee had the time to look at the merits of the underlying bill and asked substantial substantial and hard questions on whether or not the bill before us today would actually provide stimulus to our economy i'm concerned with many of the aspects of the health care portion the bill regarding the cost and scope of medicaid provisions as well as the inclusion of davis bacon prevailing wage requirements and section five zero zero three of the energy portion of the bill providing loan guarantees for commercial renewable energy systems and electric power transmission systems davis bacon is a depression era wage subsidy law and acted nine hundred thirty one which according to the u s chamber of commerce is known to inflate the cost of federally funded construction projects as much as fifteen percent costing taxpayers over a billion annually if we're looking to save taxpayer dollars in this process which i think we should be striking davis bacon wage requirements in this bill would be a good place to start i look forward to considering the many and managements that will be offered today in the effort to improve this bill and i yield back t balance of my time thank you very much mr barrow i thank the chairman the interest of time i'll leave an opening thank you sir thank you mr hill thank you mr chairman i had a prepared statement but it's not here right now minute as i understand it on carbon sequestration i will vote against all these amendments including that one even though i think mr kim has ideas is a good one i just don't think it's a good one on this particular bill i think the president has put forward a good faith is a part of the process that we need to go through reserving judgment on final passage on the house floor but i did want to make some of my republican friends on the republican side of the aisle that a lot of the ideas that they are proposing today are going good ideas that may just not be a good idea on this particular bill thank you thank you very much mr him on this message let's see if we would go to the mr murphy thing mr chairman i believe we're here to address an economic recovery package to stimulate our stubble stumbling economy the but the best economic recovery is a job this bill is a long way to go if it is to create jobs now when they're needed the most by eleven million americans looking for work paying their bills and worrying about their families retirement we could use this to create a lot of jobs we could have invested in critical research and development of clean coal power the construction of each power plant would employ thousands of boilermakers carpenters electricians laborers etc but it doesn't do this instead we will do some important work on a smart grid that's good but a smart grid without new generation only gives us the means to provide more efficient rolling brownouts our small towns and large cities badly need hundreds of billions right now to fix their infrastructure of water and sewer and road projects instead we're sending hundreds of billions to expand government programs and this bill will provide important funds for health i t electronic medical records and that's good it's going to save billions in unnecessary and redundant medical procedures an issue i've been fighting for for years but we must insist the jobs are provide the software development of u s jobs not oss or not offshore jobs later i'm going to offer an amendment to guarantee the american taxes pay for american jobs and health i t and i hope my colleagues support the amendment quite frankly we ought to do the same for thank you for calling today's markup the business of the committee today is urgent it's no secret that our economy is in serious trouble i've talked to listen to many of my constituents in sacramento who are struggling to make ends meet they're facing lay offs furloughs foreclosure unpaid medical bills and a lack of support to help them in this crucial time that's why i'm eager to work with you and with all of my colleagues on this committee to develop a robust economic recovery package our economy needs help and so to the people who make our economy run every single day america needs to be cover and with this bill as a starting point it will recover i thank you very much for your leadership on this issue mr chairman and they yield back the balance of my time thank you mr messily mr burgess so he was chairman it's already been an interesting start to what's going to be a terribly interesting day and i certainly appreciate the comments of my colleagues on both sides we've heard the word urgent used many times this morning  heard the phrase this is as urgent as it comes i would just remind my colleagues in surgery we used to have a saying please go slowly after all we're in a hurry we also heard the call for bold action and i support bold action i would also just remind us that health care is not always about insurance companies and it's not always about more government programs health care insurance a federal program doesn't do you a lot of good if you don't have a provider a physician to see when you get ill now we do face serious shortages in our health care workforce we've talked about that before in this committee in the previous congress and i hope we can spend some time discussing that today in several of the amendments that i will bring forward will deal with that we all know the reasons there's the barriers to entry there's the cost there's a lack of slots and residencies and primary care but the most pernicious is a sustainable growth rate formula that knocks down physician reimbursement year over year in the medicare formula and until we deal with that problem we are not going to build our physician workforce that we need so time for bold action i submit that there are several things we can do to sustainable growth rate formula to make it go away or at least make it less pernicious and we ought to take that action today and all your back thank you very much mr burgess christianson thank you mr chairman and thank you also for holding this markup to help to consider and help shape the final economic recovery package it's an important bill it's a good bill and i look forward to moving it quickly to the president's desk as he has asked but as we address all of the issues under our jurisdiction and importantly in health care it is important that we include provisions that would help to eliminate health disparities that exist along racial ethnic gender and geographic lines particularly in the provisions on comparative effectiveness and in my opinion failing to do so with for the purpose of this bill and the mission of this committee to ensure that all who live in this country have equal access to quality health care and equally benefit from the improvements that we're about to implement finally i know that on the broadband and i may have missed it in some of the other sections state is clearly defined to include the district of columbia and the territories that i hope that this definition is applicable throughout the bill with that i would submit my entire statement for the record thank you thank you very much mr christians mr chairman and i think that all of us agree that issues such as broadband expansion access to affordable health care the implementation of health i t are items that we want to see accomplished what is of tremendous concern is the manner in which we are moving forward today i have found it so interesting here we have to hurry up we have to hurry up we have to do something we have already had planned a presented an economic stimulus we know this that has left us with a one point two trillion dollar debt their website the bloomberg site did the bailout work dot com that will list every bit of the federal resources from all the different agencies that have gone in to economic recovery over the past year and you're looking at three point two trillion dollars so mr chairman i would submit that we no plan i didn't work we know plan b has a lot of problems you're talking about another eight hundred twenty five billion dollars what happens if we need a plan c we are using up our available capital without a well thought out plan by picking winners and losers by moving forward in haste the american people know you cannot spend your way to economic recovery and they are looking for something different and i would encourage that we take our time and that we do this in the appropriate manner and we do it without burdening our children and our precious grandchildren and leaving them with a debt that cannot be dealt with either in the short term or the long term and i yell back thank you very much miss blackburne miss castor thank you mr chairman for your swift action because americans everywhere are feeling the impact of this economic crisis more americans are looking for work can't afford their medical care millions of lost their homes and economists fear that the problem is getting worse not better my home state of florida has been particularly hard hit this committee today will answer the call of our new president to pick ourselves up dust ourselves off and begin again the work of remaking america we will do this by paskin economic recovery plan that is targeted and strategic we will make fundamental fundamental new commitment to our citizens their health and energy security and independence we will provide billions of dollars to states that have been slashing their budgets hurting the economic interests of their citizens especially in education and health care we're going to make a down payment on the coming health care reform and modernization we will ensure that the health care promises ma american families are kept and that the unemployed do not suffer greater hardship i look forward to swift action by this committee and president obama to help put america back on the right track  chairman and obviously on this side we're not happy with the rush to judgment here but i do want to compliment you on for trying to extend our jurisdiction and make sure that up a bill of this magnitude that the majority is putting forth that you're saying the energy and commerce has a say so and i think that that's you know something i want to encourage you as we go through this process and expediting bills that we make sure energy and commerce has a fair say the provisions in the house bill designed to spur broadband deployment are not likely end up my opinion to be effective and will require the f c c to rush to judgment on some of the most complicated and consequential issues facing the communications industry today broadband as we know has the potential to transform our condo me and i applaud the focus on this type of transformational infrastructure unfortunately the open access provisions in this stimulus bill will prevent us from achieving the full stimulus to the potential of these upgrades amazingly the bill does not even define open access but instead would simply require the f c c to set the definition within forty five days of an act meant and would allow for the open access requirement to apply not just to the infrastructure supported by the grant but also to the entity's entire broadband network  finally mr chairman we're investing billions of dollars in technologies i know there's nothing to do with nuclear power in florida particularly my congressional district we are planning construction of two new nuclear power plants now these power plants will generate over three thousand new jobs at the peak of construction while cutting the output of greenhouse gases so i think that's something that unfortunately is not in the bill that i would  apologize for my voice today i am still recovering from the day this is an important markup we rarely get the opportunity to get a two for three for but with the economic  recovery and reinvestment act and our portions of it were complicating a number of things that are important first we are stimulating the economy secondly we're beginning to make investments that we should be making anyhow that's the two for the three for is i think we're going to in this bill begin to model some things that make sense in terms of long term reform and in particular i know the extension of cobra coverage making cobra coverage available to people that would otherwise not get it and providing other means of establishing some continuity of care and coverage over all things that are important as we consider the larger health care reform debate so we're going to learn something from this short term exercise that we're engaged in it's going to be beneficial to us in some of the long term reform that we want to see and so this is important markup i look forward to hearing the comments from both the republicans and democrats on the committee as we proceed today thank you th siberians mr blunt thank you mr chairman and thanks for the opportunity to speak today i understand that you had to work hard mr chairman to be sure our committee and have a look at this bill and i'm grateful to you for doing this and hopefully we'll have a chance to offer some constructive changes today the bill in front of us is the largest single spending package in the history the country this bill has an estimated cost of eight hundred fifty billion dollars by comparison all of the programs of the new deal combined cost about five hundred billion dollars in today's dollars and at that time unemployment was around twenty five percent this debate would probably be different today if in fact most of us believe that we could defend the idea that it was truly stimulus the congressional budget office has told us that only seven percent of the overall bill will be spent within the next year and no more than half can be spent within the next two years really a real question here for a stimulus bill is how is that stimulus census legislation moving so quickly members of the the congress have not had time to really look at it we don't have a solid estimate of cost but apparently about a billion hundred fifty billion dollars of this package is before our committee mr chairman i submit the rest of my statement for the record and look forward to the discussion today thank you very much mr blunt miss harman thank you mr chairman to brief comments first on broadband ford increased funding for the d t v converter box coupon program but remind the committee that the real reason for the d t v transition is to free up and build out analog spectrum for emergency communications as you know that task remains incomplete second on healthcare i have called you the dish maven and i'm very pleased to hear that in a manager's amendment you are going to raise the cap to permit hospitals like harbor u c l a located very close to l a x in the port of los angeles to major terror targets to get additional funding so their level one trauma centers can be kept open without this funding big city hospitals will be on life support and in a time of high  employee unemployment this would be a very terrible outcome so i want to commend you personally for the effort you're making to make dish available for four big cities all over the country thank you thank you ms harmon mr redund chairman and i want to echo the thoughts of many of the members on this committee and my appreciation the fact that this bill is before this committee for markup i will also want to echo some thoughts and that we've already spent a trillion dollars dealing with the sour economy that we have right now we're about to spend close to another trillion dollars on it our deficit this year is projected to be larger than what i've been told the entire budget of the year two thousand and i'm real concerned about the fact that government tends to react overreact to problems spending a lot more than what we need to do in order to give people the impression that we're going to be out of these difficult times sooner than we are  and i just i can't let this market go by without expressing a grave concern that we're bankrupting this country that's going to be some time a day where we're going to flat out run out of cash and the era of big government is going to go bankrupt and we've got to begin to look for other ways and other things to solve our problems in this country without thinking that we can pass a law and spend money and make it all work so i just want to leave that thought with the  in drafting a piece of legislation that will be beneficial for the people of ohio in the people of oz eighteenth district this legislation will help expand access to broadband internet a vital piece of infrastructure in today's economy in rural america where it's badly needed and it has ancillary benefits extending into health care and education which are significant and difficult to measure most so please with the changes to the weather is a sham program which will bring access to aid for thousands of low income home homeowners in my district seeking to make their homes more efficient with products like attic insulation and finally macside to see legislation that will guarantee that states like mine facing extreme budget shortfalls will have the resources they need to continue to offer health services through the medicaid program in these difficult times as congress must act to address the needs of those struggling to make ends meet and we have before us today markup and energy and commerce but i do have some reservations about exactly what we're doing and how quickly we're doing it first raised some concerns in our initial hearing one hundred eleven congress about the process whereby the committee was holding a hearing on a report which had only been released for a little over an hour and that was the recommendation by us cap panel to move with all due haste to a cap and trade regime now at this committee's first markup i once again have serious reservations not only about this process but also about the legislative substance that this process will enable to move quickly through this committee through this congress and all the way to the president sees of an emergency stimulus package we have heard time and again that the economy needs an immediate shot in the arm fusing half a trillion dollars in taxpayer money and ready to go projects and infrastructure when i look over the details of this bill and the sections this committee has under consideration mr chairman i see billions and billions of taxpayer dollars being spent not now but years from now not in the immediate term and i also see a lot of permanent changes to law that likely will only be curiously bad and then promptly rubberstamp all in my statement with a question to my colleagues on the other side i know each of you to some degree work very hard to get in the majority by hammering the last republican congress as a rubber stamp congress i would caution against letting the same be true of you  chairman thank you very much miss mcnerney opening statement mr chairman we've heard from many of our colleagues on both sides of the aisle this morning about how urgently help is needed well this package is a step toward meeting that ne in order to get there we have to put aside the false choices such as the false choice between jobs on the one hand and clean energy and efficiency on the other hand we have a real opportunity here to kickstart our economy and transform ourselves into a new future a new sustainable future americans are demanding that we here in washington get things done this package does that deserves our support thank you thank you very much m chairman waxman and ranking member barton it's an honor to serve on the house energy and commerce committee look forward to debating the energy health care and broadband components of this bill as well as the amendments brought forward by my colleagues as our country's facing tough to economic times we would be well served to look across the country to see how others are handling things families are tightening their belts to live within their means states are tightening their belts to balance their budgets it seems washington d c is the only place going on a wild spending spree to the tune of hundreds of billions of dollars according to the congressional budget office roughly half of the spending will occur in the next two years which means that less than half of this bill is going to actually be used to inject our economy so you really can't call it stimulus really looks like more of a grab bag for new spending rather than going on a massive spending spree we would be better served by cutting taxes for middle class families and small businesses so that they can create jobs not government creating more jobs in the government sector i would suggest there are better alternatives to this spending bill such as h r four seventy the economic recovery and middle class tax relief act of two thousand and nine which rather than add almost a trillion dollars of new debt to what is already a massive day that actually goes and cuts taxes for those families and small businesses that can do much better with that money than this bill will be doing thank you mr chairman thank you very much mr rush ignored by the private market also supporting spending others and military to families who are in desperate need of the weather is a single assistance program by raising the eligible dollars from twenty five hundred to five thousand dollars  house nearly forty five million people a million families would not have to choose between heating their homes or seeing their families last and i want to thank you mr chairman for your leadership on the rollout of health information technology economic recovery legislation that is aimed squarely at restoring the promise of the middle class but for too long working families have been struggling to pay bills maintain health coverage and keep their jobs in ohio are struggling with an unemployment rate of seven point three percent cities are struggling to provide essential services and the need to improve critical infrastructure and to create new jobs and opportunities so i'm very grateful that our committee is moving quickly to address the urgent needs of those who have been hurt the most by the economic downturn this bill provides key provisions for working americans to create much needed jobs provisions that call for an increase of f map an additional funds to expand state medicaid programs and the broadband and energy provisions in this bill are likewise vital to america's future the energy provisions will increase renewable energy production and also enable families to make energy saving investments in their homes through the weather is a sion assistance program because situations throughout my district from lorraine to akron are concerned about keeping their jobs their health care in their homes and this legislation will begin to address those concerns thank you mr chairman thank you ms suddenly mr bray link thank you mr chairman i appreciate your willingness to work with me and congresswoman baldwin to improve the department of energy's loan guarantee program this program can have a tremendously positive impact on america's shift to renewable energy and i'm glad to see the provisions in the build a day to improve and fully implement the program as many of you probably know some traditional all facilities have fallen on hard times just like industries and other sectors of our economy facilities that want to invest in leading edge technologies are having trouble getting loans they would typically get from places like wall street because of decreased lending from many financial institutions the chairman has worked with congresswoman baldwin and i to add greater eligibility to the program to open it up to investments in leading edge biofuel projects by providing financing f acilities that have developed technologies proven at the pilot or demonstration level and are likely to become commercial technologies by providing this financing we will help ensure that ethanol facilities and biofuels producers can weather the recession by thank you mr chairman two things first it's very important and i think all committee members republicans and democrats appreciate your insistence on having the energy and commerce committee review the stimulus we need a stimulus there's an emergency that requires emergency action much of the work had to be done before we even arrived here but that emergency does not mean that this committee should not have its opportunity to review this and hear from both republicans and democrats about the best composition of this plan second and more importantly it's essential that we use the opportunity of creating a new energy policy as a means of creating a new economy if we're going to st the loss of jobs and begin creating jobs in this country rather than exporting them an engine for that new economic revival will be a green energy policy and that is one of the most u task that this congress faces one of my colleagues on the other side said the best program is a good job and he's right thank you thank you mr welch if all members who wish to make an opening statement have all members have done so we will now proceed to the first print before us in the chair would call up the committee print concerning broad bad initiatives and without objection the committee prints will be considered as read click will designate section one the amendment in the nature of a substitute  the broadband package before us today would distribute two point eight to five billion dollars for wireless and where wireline broadband through a grant program administered by the national telecommunications inference information administration n t i a approximately one billion would go to the deployment of wireless service a language establishes a goal that twenty five percent of this amount will go to areas and seventy five percent under served areas in addition one point eight billion dollars would go to the deployment of broadband via fiber or other wires again with the goal of twenty five percent of basic broadband in unserved areas and seventy five percent to advance broadband under served areas the proposal aims to be technologically neutral allowing participation by any eligible entity including service providers infrastructure companies or a state or unit of local government eligible entities are required to abide by minimum speed requirements as well as other important policy goals states will play a key role in this program and finally in addition to minimum speed requirements grant applicants it n t i a must also address other policy related considerations including the impact of service on public safety health care delivery education and computer literacy the substitute differs from the committee print that was distributed late last week in two primary ways first to substitute ads language to ensure greater transparency and accountability by requiring n t i a to issue an annual report assessing the impact and effectiveness of the grants second the substitute makes clear that as many entities as possible are eligible to apply for a grad including satellite companies and i urge members to support this amendment the chair will now call for amendments to the amendment in the nature of a substitute this disturbs the chairman i have an amendment at the desk clerk will report the amendment this is the amendment dealing with the two hundred fifty million dollar men fix for chairman general lady serving a point of order a point of order is reserved by the generally for code of colorado and waiting for copies thank the amendments coming as we speak then in the nature of a substitute chairman just dispense with the reading offered by miss just go ahead and read it so we can just verify the reich all after the uniting cause and insert the following section one additional coupons and and then without objection the men will be considered as red the germans recognized him and i intend to withdraw this amendment and this is really something that was going to be discussed more fully in the markup on the d t b transition markup that you had scheduled and you had postponed obviously your staff spent many many hours probably perhaps preparing for that markup they were supposed to have yesterday and obviously our staff had to same thing and we'd worked out amendments we were sort of the biscuits frantic about it because you postponed it we were ready on the other hand we're glad that you delayed that because we didn't agree with you and this amendment is basically authorizing two hundred fifty million dollars for the coupon program allowing the n t i a to use first class mail to get coupons to consumers faster and extending the f c c s authority to auction spectrum another year to two thousand and twelve the coupon program is not out of money and we'd like to convince you that this is true that a simple fix can be hand had here only half of the want and a half billion dollars in the coupon program has been spent on redeem coupons the other half remains in circulation which is why there is a waiting list the coupons expire ninety days after issued if not using about three hundred thousand coupons expire every week and they recovered funding is used to send more coupons so my colleagues and cement would enable the n t i a to immediately resume distributing additional coupons off the waiting list even before active coupons expire this m m is based on a suggestion by the commerce secretary i have here a letter that he sent on january fourteenth two ranking member barton a similar letter was sent to you mr chairman among others you'll recall and much of the two hundred fifty million authorized could come back from expired coupons at the end of the program so simply extending the f c c auction authority would also raise additional money that would offset some of the cost so we feel that in light of your postponement of the markup yesterday that you will take full consideration of the dialogue that i have today and perhaps you might want to comment on this amendment before i withdraw realizing that as a department secretary said his general fourteenth letter we can solve this without a delay providing this two hundred fifty million dollars fix immediately would solve the problem and then all the as well as the maintenance people to make this transition is all in place and with a simple two hundred fifty million dollars or authorization of funds as the as pointed out by the secretary of commerce letter we would solve the problem and obviously would not have to go to a markup which would make your time much more useful and you would not need to do continuance of that markup and so with the balance of time i'd be glad to have a colloquy with you to perhaps maybe you would consider this amendment  unless anyone else wishes to speak on this i would ask unanimous consent to withdraw the amendment without objection the amendments withdrawn further amendments to the legislation mr stup it's amendment zero zero one starts off in section thirty one  toward emergency response but does not mention interoperable communications specifically the purpose of my amendment is the clarify that this grant money is also available for the construction of interoperable wireless broadband communications both former chairman kevin martin and the democratic commissioners last year have stated to this committee that federal assistance will be helpful in moving forward on their attempt to re auction the spectrum by adding my amendment language we can provide clear  men that are drafted to the committee print regarding broadband are made in order to amendment in the nature of a substitute which is now considered the underlying bill for purposes of amendment without objection that will be the order any further discussion of the stupak amendment miss harman yes i intend to support the amendment and think as i said in my opening remarks that an interrupt rable communications network nationally  is something we need to achieve urgently that after all was the point of the d t v transition and so i think mr stupak is right to try to expedite funds to communities the only caution i would raise and i have a feeling this is to back agrees with me is we don't want each community to build operable communications for that community and then and miss the opportunity to have interoperable community communications nationally so i support this amendment but i hope that we will when it is adopted include report language that our goal still remains to have a national interoperable emergency communications capability and i if in any way my view is inconsistent with his you know your view is consistent we want to do this clarifies that we can use this funding for interrupt ability we checked with the appropriators to make sure we're not duplicative in our efforts that  marking up and we are not and they were supportive of the clarification language thank you mr chairman any further discussion of the stupak amendment it's not a we ready for the question all those in favor of the stupak amendment will say  clerical reported the amendment in the general a from colorado reserves a point of order and without objection that will be the orders chairman this this amendment deals with the whole issue of under served and unserved and whether it deals with the wireless voice service basic broadband service advanced broadband advanced wireless advanced wireless broadband advanced broadband services in each of those categories the amendment just simply says that you would provide served you would provide grants to unserved areas would have a priority over grants to under served areas when you're when you're talking about federal money i'm sure everyone that the contention that an area could be better served is probably universal so everyone is going to compete for that under served area of  money granted what this amendment really does is just simply focusing on an served areas i assume that those areas are principally rural but not exclusively rural if you have an unders area the grant money has to be focused on that area before it can go to provide multiple services in other areas of the country it's that straightforward i would like to see it rural for a minute and i do appreciate the sentiment and if this n t i a grant program for broadly broadband wireline and wireless deployment was the only such grant program in the recovery package i would be much more sympathetic to adopting it but we have to keep in mind as we deliberate here in the commerce committee that there is yet another three billion dollars for grants in the broader stimulus package paul rural areas through the rural utilities service which is coming through the agriculture committee and other words there is another three billion dollars already tie good for rural priorities through that program now we can debate whether the rural utility service should have that job and whether the agriculture committee should have that job and not whether it would have been better to put all of the money all nearly six billion dollars at the n t i a but it is the reality and we need to take legislative note that of the fact that rural areas have another three billion dollars for broadband elsewhere in the recovery package i also don't believe and under served disadvantaged urban or suburban area in dire need of economic development revitalization should have to wait for assistance until all rural unserved areas are reach we have real economic development opportunities in other parts of the country in addition to rural but just understand that this nearly six billion dollars package includes that three billion that goes to rural america plus the additional rural money that's in this package as well and i think having taken note of that the package as it comes before our committee represents the page three of the the underlying legislation it refers to and served and under served and i wonder where we have a definition of those two terms first of all i mean i think i understand what unserved is i'm not sure i understand what under served means is that they only have one carrier or two carriers and congressman the bill directs the to define those terms so we punt to the f c c to determine whether in areas  served or under sir is it currently undefined by the f c c so this is a new term we're going to put in statute now then having said that i note that there are situations later on in the underlying grant program where we are supposed to make a determination that seventy five percent of the money goes to the un under served and twenty five percent maximum goes to the un sir is there a reason do you know how that number was picked that ratio because i've heard we're going to do rural broadband buildout in this bill congressman i can tell you is that the bill direct santorum in a stranger to seek to distribute no more than seventy five percent to under served and twenty five percent unser so only a quarter of the money goes to those areas that have no service today and that's a definition we understand that seventy five percent will go to areas that may already have some service but we don't know how that will be defined until  or the f c c defines under served correct yes the bill directs the then let me let me go i to line twenty three of the underlying bill section and i may be wrong here but it starts with the number two and called limitations and i will read it for you because i believe there's an error in there in the drafting and perhaps you can explain it if it's not it says to limitation the unserved in under served areas identified by a state in the report required by this subsection shall not represent in the aggregate more than twenty percent of the population or of the geographic area of such states now does that mean that the money that there's a twenty percent geographic limitation here as well as population it refers to the report that the priorities report that a state may submit identifying areas within that state to which it would like grant monies directed so if a state had say thirty percent of its geography with no service as i read this language they would still fall under a further limitation that no more than twenty five twenty percent of that state would qualify for funds for that geographic area that state correct so one trumps the other right that's correct except that the bill doesn't put a cap on twenty five percent it is endeavor to shall seek to limit not it is not a hard cap on the twenty percent and the twenty five percent of the grant funds to be distributed right we're taught well we are talking about the twenty five seventy five but i'm also talking about the twenty percent geography here but what this says is the uncertain under served areas of a state cannot be more than twenty percent of the geography of that state and the recommendation the state makes to the n c a a can know why it was twenty percent picked one third all i can say is that's what that's what the bill says right now so i'll direct that to the chairman then since i don't want to pick on you outside of under the policy side mr chairman can you tell me why twenty percent was picked in your bill just so you can keep this in this debate and let's let's keep it in front of us all of the money that is coming out of the agriculture committee is going to the world parts of america that's three billion dollars just to understand we have another approximately three billion dollars here as well we're going to see one stand that i'm sure what we have here in the seventy five percent twenty five percent are aspirational goals again you understand these are not it's not hard it's an aspirational goal  that we place here but understanding the three billion right off the top goes to rural america well let me and let me take money my time because it's about out i'm not sure it says that when it says the n t i a shall see shall seek to distribute where we're trying to express well the reason i raise the issue on geography is that for example my district probably two thirds of the landmass of the state of oregon and probably represents the most under served areas in the state of oregon and i'm trying to figure out why we would then tell the state you can only have twenty percent of the ga graphy of the state of oregon classify under unserved or underserved and i'm out of time it's almost time has expired mr stupak as you could recognition well thank you mr chairman i won't get into the seventy five twenty five or eighty twenty i grip mr blunt i'd like all the money to go to rural areas and like you mr walden my districts very under served but these are definitions we've kicked around in this committee for a few years we've had a number of hearings on what is served and under served and if you take a look at the latest farm bureau utility services we tried to tighten up that language what is served in under served and we've had those definitions going on i actually have a second amendment revising the definitions of  but if you remember we have directed that there be the mapping the broadband inventor or a map and my amendment basically says ninety days after neck look at that map if you get your map done because the map should be completed by then then look at your survey under served and use that definition you have ninety days and forty five days to do it so i sorta have a clarifying legislation to help us all the longest because many of the questions you raise i had the same questions based upon all the hearings we've had under mr marquis's committee  figure out how they'll do that in the time frame then that you have now referenced in your next amendment because the broadband broadband deployment map broadband inventory map is to be completed within the next three months and you'll give us some impera call data because right now it's more of a crapshoot really it is information is not accurate we saw and we did remember all utility service in the last farm bill before that places like houston was considered under served and getting the money where is like yours and mine were being already but what we're going to do is ensure that they get additional information so that they can make this determination between unserved and under served and they will do so very quickly after an act of this legislation so we're very sympathetic to the fact that we're all america is obviously the most underserved and and that's what is reflected in the stimulus package the three billion write off the top goes there to rural america and ea information and our goal is to get it out there quickly obviously with the gentleman that's the goal of the administration to see this these projects begin as quickly as possible with the gentleman  soon ninety days and then they have nine days after that forty five days to finalize it ok so you're talking hundred twenty five days from n t i a when they finish the mapping and then the f which will take a little bit more time than i earlier said and then the f c c would take those data and begin to develop a definition we direct and then at least we will make a an f c c use the same data to try to determine under served and unserved but then the f c c would have to go through their rule making process is there a time limit put on them for that oh ok gentlemen we have fifty three seconds sure mr fact under your proposed amendment is there any any any definitional restriction for the f c c or do they still just take this information and they decide  and if so is there any way we could be more directional in determining how they decide particular what under served made i'm sympathetic to mr marquis's point that some areas are don't have all the service they might like to have  i'm my argument would be that every area potentially could say they were under sir that they need more competition that they need more options and so suddenly you've got people that have not only service but multiple providers are getting this grant money for the new competitor while people no service at all are standing there waiting for another group another allocation of money and back n t i a is supposed to have that inventory map done i rise and support and then a strike the requisite number of words you know when you look at this it's really just saying we're going to set some priorities here and that i don't think you need a definition  for serve that means zero that means nothing nothing nada they're not getting anything and so i don't think that's too difficult to understand and these people should be a high priority and i think the gentleman and this van is just saying that we have so much money and we should look to help the unserved and for that i think we should support the amendment and i think it's a reasonable approach thanks further discussion of the amendment mr chairman mr would beg to differ in my observation of how we've come to an understanding in this committee based on the three or four hearings we had on mapping broadband what we mean by under served and unserved for exam ample what is typically common in rural areas is that you may have a town of twenty five hundred people that is served with broadband but once you get out of the dense if you can call it denser housing areas you'll have homes that are unserved but yet they're still within the territory of that rural provider so while i think that individual home has served our seas or states or someone else it clear that under served so we've never really had a hearing to my knowledge that focuses on how we distinguish between under served and  unserved life wise and when we talk about an urban core and i'm one of the few guys that sticks up for rural that actually represents urban you look at the urban core in my district that is served but very much underutilized but yet i hear in our discussions in some of our past hearings today that people would  assume a definition of under served in an urban or where no one is using the availability of broadband because of cost or lack of hardware which is a different issue and i think there are suggestions within this chairman's mark that we recognize that that's what we mean by under served  in urban core areas but i'm sure and my friend from michigan you have a great his expertise on this area and understand rural versus suburban versus urban i'll yield to you if you can help me work through some of these and maybe your amendment helps drive dress but i think my memet would help address it  ch i would have gone before mister mr blunt amendment and i really don't have much argument with what putting money in an servers is under served but as a congress has policymakers and f c c they have nothing to base that on right now and that's what it inventory map will be critically important you can have one provider as you pointed out and still be served because you're without the geographic boundaries and we know the states have come up with different ways of trying to define serve and under served and are so many different conflicting views out there and as i said earlier i think once you put a pot of money out there like we have in this bill everybody is go under served at least they'll be the argument and every one of us will be called the under served we are to get at that money so what i'm saying is slow this thing down let's get the inventory map out and let's go off that basis and urge blaming my time for the last minute i agree with you thoroughly i don't know how we make any policy determinations on what is served and served under served adequately served intel that map comes out but i gotta tell you i think it's in real tragedy transferring our ability to make those policy decisions outside of this committee i've seen the f c c rule that areas of mis sippy are unserved when we have houses in the middle of nebraska in the sand hills that are fifty miles apart by their definition weren't qualified so frankly just handing this off to the f c c is an atrocious of our policy duties and with that i'm going to at least go with the with mr blunt's amendment here but i don't know how we make any decisions here my opening remarks and i would include then my colleagues as their interest in their comments i think that to leave this kind of a decision to the f c c with no guidance poses a risk several things first of all inaction by the f c c which is notorious for not acting on matters of great importance with proper speed second of all we're giving them no understanding of what is or under s unsure might happen to be or any of the other knowledge or adverbs there are other or adjectives that might relate to the level of service having said these two things i think we need to give some instruction to them in the report i think the committee is capable of doing that through its staff but i would urge that there will be strong need for legislative oversight over this particular matter to i thank you for the points you raise and i want to indicate that since mr stupak will have an amendment on this on this very area which i think makes more sense than the blunt amendment i would oppose the blunt amendment us funds the rural areas already it's appropriate that our bill also fund less rural areas and promote higher speeds so we have percentages which are really aspirational and not hard and fast we'll have more data define some of these areas there may be more funding for unserved areas depending on applications but i think we need to focus not just on unser but under served so we can get higher speeds and promote growth job growth because this bill is to promote jobs and we can i think in the process of all of this see that the areas that are served as well as underserved get attention but  and what the r us and it's part of their rural economic development and that's really what we're talking about here but i've got to tell you at least in almost every rural state i've been to and looked into the our us has made little difference in rolling out broadband in rural areas  it has been the incumbent small telco who have rolled out vance services and it's interesting in small towns small very s is that they came into omaha or an applicant was awarded tens of millions of dollars to roll out a wireless broadband  such small towns as well corn brask what's in my district elkhorn probably about twenty thousand people is actually in side the omaha city limits and has the choice of maybe five or six different broadband carriers so the unfortunate part is that we may assume that all utility service s economic development grants for broadband are going to the smallest of communities the realities are they're being used in suburbia to compete and so i think if we're going to rely on the other two or three billion that are us we need to engage in the debate about whether they're actually going to be used in rural services or not i'll yield back my time i just wanted to help educate my colleagues here on the difficulties i've had with our us trying to get them to actually focus on rural area as you know your back my german my our time back to mr dingell gentleman's time has expired for the i just want to say a few words about the amendment i appreciate the gentleman offering it because i think that any kind of discussion on broadband is an exceedingly important one our country has fallen so far behind that it is a great national source of embarrassment to us i mean where the administration's the previous administration if there was one person that had broadband in a need to get hung up on these definitions if someone isn't served if there isn't any broadband you don't need a definition for that there simply isn't any broadband wherever it is in jesus usa all right now on the other part of it in terms of under served in forty five days or less the f c c can come up with a definition for it i think the important thing is here is that the legislation calls for and contains three billion dollars for this particular area for both under served and not answer that's the great news so i don't think we should get ourselves on the ropes  here i really don't i think we should take a deep breath and be sensible and say allah lujah part of this is being addressed my issue in all of this is is that no one should think that with under served and non served and three billion dollars that we're correct dane and going to bring up broadband penetration wide broadband penetration to every place in our country and address speeds is going to be addressed by this whole issue because it's not and so that really belongs over on the tax side with ways and means i've made a proposal in terms of bonds for broadband in ourselves here when in two thousand and one the united states was ranked second in the world in broadband deployment  ability pricing was now slipped to sixteen in the world now over the last two years as the subcommittee chairman working with the republicans we put together based upon the connect kentucky a program to do broadband mapping for the state of kentucky a national broadband mapping bill now the reason that i did that in the reason that we work with the minority on it was obviously rural america was not being sort of the net was a great concern which i have which is why i introduced the legislation and had the whole series of hearings that we had here in two thousand and seven it was to find where america is not served at all and where it is under sir and that bill passed out of this committee unanimously to put together that national broadband map and it was signed by president bush so my goal was not to worry about the wealthiest communities in my district in boston obviously it was to worry about the unserved rural parts of our country and the under served parts of suburban and urban america that was my goal now what mrs tuke x and then it will do is to flesh that out even further kevin martin however to our credit again took note of what we were doing legislatively and the initiated his own process to begin to gather more information which is going to help us to ensure that we expedite this process so in this distribution of money actually the bill before us which the obama administration put together recommends obviously that half of it right off the top goes to rural america but then for the other half which is under our jurisdiction has this other distribution that includes under served as well and there are a lot of people in america who aren't in rural america who are under s other words the the the least the person who's under served should not have to wait until the last unser a person has their access there should be a way in which suburban and urban america where it is under beneficiaries so we started this process this could not the senate not the obama team not the bush administration we started it in this committee two years ago and this is the culmination day which i think a very fair split in terms of where the money debate number one mr markey when you let off in their opposition to this amendment you accused mr blunt and defined his amendment as calling it a rural service first amendment well that beckons then you define your own legislation then as a city first that's what's before us now what concerns me most is that when we make judgments on policy i think that virtues and values ought to be pretty important because we're doing it for a country and as we do this for a country and you look at virtues and values we say you know what there are certain things that is that we do that by policy it's for good conduct and good behavior there are other things out there in our society recognizes not be criminal culpability but shameful conduct we could see it by maybe you go you're having lunch and a hundred people are to be served and so what seventy five percent of the people are already gone through the lunch line twenty five percent of people haven't even been fed yet and the other seventy five percent say you know i need a little bit more dessert i didn't get enough meat i need more vegetables so they cut in line before the other twenty five percent have even been fed we all recognize that is shameful conduct and behavior now with regard to our allocations this committee we didn't we didn't say too with regard to handing out the coupons what's with the digital for d t v we didn't say we're going to hand out coupons only to where the areas that are selling the most high the most high definition t v i mean come on i just want to take a time out here i agree with mr dingell we should and with the others that have said let's not send this off to the f c c and let them decide someone has already made a judgment and are unwilling to come publicly and say what they really mean when they put this markey has has said to us well wait a minute look what they're doing with regard to ag he is fighting for the cities what we should be fighting for is to make sure that people get covered in our society whether they're whether they're an inner city area that is unserved or in a rural area that is unserved i also would say the gentle lady the two definitions are pretty important definitions are important you may not think they're important i do but if you're going to allocate money definitions are important and we ought to decide in this committee with regard to these allocations of the gentle lady i appreciate it i appreciate the gentleman yielding i think all memberships turn to page two of  what is in front of us line five grants authorized line six in general the n t i a is authorized to carry out a program to award grants to eligible days for the non recurring costs associated with the deployment of broadband infrastructure this is very important going to the point that the gentleman just spoke to lines eleven and twelve broadband infrastructure in rural suburban and urban areas in accordance with the requirements of this section let me so they are as if the only point i want to make is is that we're not putting any part of our country ahead of another if  have to wait until the last unserved is served in an under served area well then if that's what you really believe flip the allocation just split the allocation make the allocation seventy five percent for the unserved and adjacent ballroom here the agriculture committee is going to be serving fifty percent of all the money off the top to unserved america meaning rural america some rural utility service so it starts there here we're just adding under served as well reflecting the fact that a large percentage of even this three billion is going to rule as well and serve but that the under served should also be factored in because obviously the economic development for a country what value raising decisions mr markey that's the only thing i hope gentleman's time has expired for their discussion of the amendment mr rogers thank you mr chairman and i would yield my time to mr walden they very much  appreciate my colleague from michigan doing that i want to go back to some of the timelines here because at the at the back of this substitute it talks about the f c c having forty five days if you go to page eleven it says that the c shall define under served and wireless voice service all these things and it gives sets up forty five day requirements for definition now we've heard from mr super pac that n t i a probably won't have their mapping done for one hundred twenty five two hundred sixty five days something like that but before the maps are done the f c c is supposed to write definitions thirty days no more than thirty days after the f c c is done the states are supposed to submit if you look at page three not later than seventy five days after the date of an accident of this action each state intending to participate in the program under this section south submit n t i there's a very complex report in order to qualify so we're going to give our states thirty days after we've the f c c forty five days in order for them to even participate now i don't know about your state my it's pretty good and aggressive we've got a great p c but that's a pretty tight timeline to meet all the other requirements in this bill including trying to define and maybe somebody can help me with this one on page eight line eight section three this notion of contains concrete plans for enhancing computer ownership or computer literacy in the area i've not seen the word concrete used in the context of developing a plan and i wonder what that's all about and where that came from and i concur with my colleague from indiana there have been decisions made apparently behind closed doors without the minority here involved in those discussions decide that seventy five percent should go to the ends or under served twenty five percent of the answer that's a policy decision we're sending n t i his way as a proposal not a shall i recognize but you'll have him back here to beat him up pretty bloody if they exceed that in any way we're doing delegating the decision making to a damp c c on the disc on the definitions and when we're spending three billion dollars in a matter of minutes here we're sending it to an agency where there have been five and i believe there now are there now four commissioners currently serving so it's it's deadlocked right now at the f c c so we're down to three so it's not so three unelected commissioners of the f c c are going to be given the authority if you vote for this to define how to spend three billion dollars if we put all the work in this why are we writing the definition what's wrong with that we're the legislators and i think all the hearings we've had no oversight hearings we've conducted where we beat up agencies we're not following our intent we need to give them the intent clearly right here right now it's our responsibility to the gentleman claiming my time i would yield to thank you and just to help educate my colleagues here with the our u s dollars that's under the ag title there is no definition under the title of under served and served and so under that purposes or this discussion of ok well the real world dollars are going to be within the our u s let me again explain  that i've studied the our u s in their broadband because they wanted to come into areas of omaha highly dense areas suburban areas that were already covered by at least three or four different carriers their argument to our us to get these funds is well we have to go into the dense areas before we can go into the less d areas and that was their building model well the whole point what was confusing to me under the award was that they've got to start building in the suburban wireless networks with then broadband networks within omaha including one that's right smack almost in the day abc middle omaha that's a really blue collar area that has know if it's got any animals it's cats and dogs and they were going to set up in those areas but they didn't have a timetable of when they were really going to go into any rural areas confuse me why they were receiving government grants under a business model like that but just to point out as we're discussing this  r markey is that there's no guarantees that the you are u s funds or going to be used responsibly for rural america jim it's time has expired are we ready for the question chairman i simply want to make the point that i think this discussion is a very worthwhile discussion and very productive and i think it illustrates the complexity of the legislation that's before us it seems to me we are debating very serious policies that affect  millions of americans that allocate scarce resources which has been pointed out earlier don't come from today's taxpayers but will be borrowed and then will become a burden on children our children and quite frankly even our grandchildren and  final points i'd like to make mr chairman one is it's interesting to me that part of this debate is that this committee the energy and commerce committee would be seen scene responsibility willingly to the agriculture committee in defining these areas or to the f c c in defining these areas this committee should do that work i believe this committee is better prepared to do that work snottily than any other committee of congress but also then any appointed people and a partially populated federal communications commission right now and what is under served me as the chairman mentioned earlier that may mean you don't have enough a high enough level of speed yet certainly people who are going to apply for grants would like to have federal money to compete in areas that somebody else is already serving because the market studies already been done in the more difficult area of serving others i mean why don't we define what under served means does it mean you don't have you only have one competitor by definition it means somebody is providing the service so does why doesn't this committee say in areas that only have that don't have yet three competitors seventy five percent of the money can go before it can go to areas that are under served that's really the spirit of this amendment i appreciate the time we've had to debate it would and i yield back to the gentleman reclaiming my time i want to make the point that while this bill spends hundreds of billions of dollars we're talking here about not an insignificant amount of money we're talking about three billion dollars which we are handing off to a commission to spend i would suggest that those are important decisions i've seen us fight on the floor over much smaller amounts of money it seems to me that we ought to be setting those priorities and i would associate myself with the in terms of you know who ought to be served first and whether or not some people are entitled to additional service before others have gotten even their first round without you know back gentleman yield back is time are we ready for the question all those in without objection the a member will be considered as read gentleman recognized for five minutes to explain his amendment thank you mr chairman as i said earlier wished i could have offered this one before mr blunt amendment i think mr blunt amendment was well intended a las it lacked some specificity and hopefully we can bring some further specificity to what is on served and under served areas mr dingell and mr terry made a lot of good comments last time about  after after completion of the broad man inventory map currently our federal agencies do lack the empirical data on the status of broadband deployment in this country so it's my concern that the definitions the f c c will create to designate what is an underserved under served area may not be accurate congress addressed a similar issue with the rural utilities service broadband program under the farm bill and thanks to mr markey legislation on broadband map in two thousand and seven we had a number of hearings on it congress had input on that broadband map legislation mr markey passed and also in  rural utilities service broadband program since i have helped write the program six seven years ago this was the first time we've had a chance to reauthorize it and with the reauthorization because input from members and hearings we had in the rule utility service broadband program they do provide some criteria specific criteria such as changes were made to tighten up the areas to be eligible to receive loans and are us in a way that should exclude suburban areas that are already well served as examples mr terry brought up areas are not eligible if they receive service by three or more broadband providers or more than seventy five percent of the households may obtain affordable broadband service from at least one incumbent provider and the areas are contiguous to an urban center are of at least fifty thousand nor have a population exceeding twenty thousand other words you can't be more twenty thousand but you can't be adjacent to an area of fifty thousand population so we do have some criteria to go by but prior to the farm bill funding was going to areas that met the criteria issued by department but were not truly and i brought up the subdivision within houston so what we're doing here when we revise the definition of the r us in the farm bill to tighten criteria and more efficiently target are funds areas that need them the f c c should undergo a similar process upon completion of the broadband deployment map body and that way we can assure that areas that are truly under length on the stupak amendment but i think what mr blunt said on his amendment bears repeating on this amendment if we as a committee feel like there should  grants to under served areas of america we ought to put it in the statute we don't need to let the commission have a study we could have a debate in this committee or subcommittee and then decide if under served means one provider has less than fifty percent market penetration  means two providers none of which is dominant so to say that i mean i understand the gentleman from michigan is in to in here and it's it is an improvement in the underlying bill because at least he requires there be some definition and that's a good thing not a bad thing but i think there are enough bright minds on this committee maybe even one or two on the minority side of the aisle that we could work this out in it in the statute so i would you know i'm not i'm not saying i'm really opposed to this i just don't i don't see why we don't do what mr blunt said is decide what we want a definition of under served and put it in the this that's the crux of it four hundred ninety days they have forty five more days to get through the rules and regulations then what impact does that have on the underlying bill on page three where the states are only given seventy five days after an act meant to write and submit their plans because it looks to me like we've just moved the goalposts on them with a requirement the f c c to redefine under served and yet the states within seventy five days of enactment are supposed to have their plans in place so is that going to require if if the f c c changes the definition after n t i a comes in then aren't the states going to have to revise all their submitted plans not necessarily just the states right now i think both both point out that you have different criteria that your state uses probably different than michigan right now until we get an inventory map and tell the marquis legislation we pass until seven until we have that information we'll probably end up continue to put out these grants the way they have been right now which quite honestly has been based upon political influence any remarks so this administration is trying to say we're not going to political influence or in mark let's something reclaim the right time and they're going to have to look at it differently right i understand that but the language that we're putting into statute says not later than seventy five days after the date of an act of this session is section each state intended to participate in the program under this section shall submit to the n t i a a report indicating the geographic areas of the state which and then it goes through and included in that is which wireless voice service in unserved areas and under served areas the same for broadband that definition is what we've been debating this morning that's going to be defined by the f c c now further revised after the maps come in and yet in order to participate the states have to submit this plan and seventy five days describing what areas of theirs are under served but they're going to change the definition and so they're to have to resubmit their plans in order to qualify because the definition could change hopefully once they submit their plans you are trying to play to money they're not going to let him wait for a year or so before do it that will deploy the money do they have to resubmit the plans i guess that's that and minist judgement but i would say no but look at right now we don't have a thing federally we've been doing that on the applications i just want to know i know that we're going to i'm going to hear from my public utility commission or my governor or somebody that says di guyon you guys you told us to go down this route the f c c in forty five days gave us a definition we went to work and we crashed out in thirty days a plan that the details everything including a concrete plan for community computer acquisition and then you've come back and you've changed the description of what under served is and now our plan won't be in compliance no i don't think that's at all i would hope the n t i a as you're applying of organ implies for for granted and to give specific information that will help them riginal f c c definition and i think it's going to set up a real mess and i just want to put that on the right yes sir but i mean right now you get to fifty different ways of defining if you look each state does or i don't argue that point so  after you have your standard show in a state then complied to the right rules right but what we're doing is creating one standard forty five days a writer in india three days after a little pressure on the stance right well but wait because then you're going to come back with your man with the new n t i a data from the maps correct and have the f c c review that and come up with a revised definition of under served and now the states are going to have to go through and revise all their plans because we didn't set the definition here right now and while the c is doing their revisions i'm sure known your interests in this area you'll be helping the f c c make those determinations it's going to all us not to need to make oh my my interests are side and i would be more than happy to be cooperative on all of  i just i don't know maybe twenty one years in a small business i used to get really angry when the government moved the goalposts on me and i'm afraid that's what we're setting up here is the government's going to send the states down this direction in this path and then in whatever timeline is in  months the f c c is going to change where the goalposts are and there's going to have to be a complete rewriting of the state plans right but we try to kick that he'll go we'll have one field goal as well as a fifty different deal gold and then we get some uniformity in definitions of amendment passed out the men reserving a point of order so men reserves a point of order i don't think my it i don't think it's a gentleman would permit i don't think a second degree amendment would be permitted because we didn't make the meme in the nature of a substitute the base text and when mr peck tried to use his amendment as a substitute amendment to be blunt there was a jack if you wish to ask  you could do that but otherwise without his consent i don't think you'd be permitted to offer it as if you will really you're going to rule out of order a second degree and then we have is my amendment or it is second the nature of a substitute yes my parliamentarian says if that's the case mr berger doesn't need unanimous consent because the amendment under the rules is in order i'm not saying that that's true to please contact our head parliamentarian to find out because a lot of business for which we do here in congress chairman i will offer that substitute and then we go through the amendment process and even when i but what i said earlier was in error and you did not offer and women in the nature of a substitute you did not offer a manager's amendment so it does require unanimous consent so mr stupak is within his rights to object  wished to be recognised to speak on the pending stupak amendment germans recognize thank you and it's all that time counted against me this journalist start you all over thank you i want to compliment  stupak because you're trying you're trying to you're you're helping you're trying to make something something here you're trying to be very helpful and i agree with you that that having this map is extremely important for us to be able to make good judgments and so what i was going about to do miss to pack it in the mending your amendment was when you say that we shall you're going to extend the f c c then based on this map that you can revise the definitions based on the data if you're going to revise the definitions then why would you also then revise the allocation because that's what's so extremely important and so what i was going to propose and you're to amend your amendment would be to revise the allocation i guess what i'll do now since you objected to that amendment is i will wait and pause and see the outcome of your amendment and they may offer my own amendment but mr stupak i i would like to enter this colloquy with you i that because those definitions are extremely important and i can't in good conscience place myself to defend the seventy five percent that want to put themselves back in the food line and so if we want to make sure that everyone else everyone is covered would it not be logical then for us to just to pack to then say if we're going to revise definitions based on the map that we should also take a second look at the allocation of the gentleman i was in the room when the allocations came up there are two different sources if i had my way would be one hundred percent to go to the first congressional district of michigan and that's why we're not all in a room i'm sure there's some logic to seventy five twenty five eighty twenty as we see in this legislation but i'm not privy to those discussions so i guess i really can tell you honestly back reclaiming my time you know who was in the room well then if we're trying to make logical logical based decision as you're doing here with the gentleman with the gentleman agree that we should also revisit the allocation percentage based off based off the outcome of the twenty five aspirational goals is a new one i heard today and i aspire to get all of it to my district all right reclaim my time it doesn't in the bill it doesn't say aspirational goal nor does it intend for it to be an aspiration seek where we're just going to we're just going to advocate a lot of our responsibilities over the f c c i just pause and remember when we when republicans were in the majority when you were fighting in the minority you would never you would never have taken this position that you're taking today and i'm really i'm really stunned i think one of the things that we have to do and republicans now we find ourselves the minority we also have to be very careful in keeping ourselves to what are your values what are your principles what do you believe in the best interests of the country and i believe you should be doing the very same thing don't fight one way when you're the minority but when you're the majority then you do something completely different definitions are important allocations are important and i'm going to go back to my comment about  based policy judgments for a country we shouldn't be saying to the other seventy five percent it's ok to cut into the food line before the other twenty five people have even gotten fed yet and that's what we're doing with regard to broadband services and i applaud m you recognize that you're trying to make that kind of change but when it comes to then the allocation of the money the money needs to follow the map so i applaud the gentleman for for his intentions of the gentleman who would like that well thanks and then again a little flippant there on the amount i want to go in my district i think we all want to but when my members trying to is build off what we did in the last congress when we had the marquee legislation we had a number of hearings on and served under sir and we finally got something to say ok let's do a broadband deployment map so we all know what we're going from what we're all working off of even the f c c thought it was a good idea we had a number of hearings with the f c c in there right now the f c c is down to three members and  i just i'm just saying look let's build off what we've been doing for the last two years under the leadership of mr markey and in this and i point that way maybe after we get that map you might be right mr mayor we should reallocate the seventy five twenty four you may be right i want to take a let's one step down let's get a map let's get some common definitions we can all use from and let's work from there and that's why in a way i know it's a do it of his shall seek we called aspirational but gives us some room to maneuver in the future and i appreciate what you're trying to do this time as expired move to strike the last word well let me announce to the members we have a two hour limit on this committee print i know of a couple of amendments and we'll probably have votes of course we won't count that time so let's just really urgent i would hope we can get to the vote but i'm not going to cut anybody off has anybody feel they absolutely must speak on the st amendment yes i do i'm as you know terry i move to strike the requisite number of words and i'm i'm a i'm not trying to cause problems i'm extremely frustrated at so many different levels here first all i've been working for three years on trying to make sure that we have a comprehensive logical broadband policy that does do what we're talking about  here and that's you know kind of the man on the moon big picture thing and to have three years beating my head against a wall here of trying to make it comprehen coordinated and then to do it in a matter of four hours without any employer discussion coordination let's just throw six billion dollars and not question how it's done or coordinated makes no sense to me and frustrates me to the core bart i'm going to i like what you're doing here but it doesn't get to what the real issues are here although we in congress can't decide what under served and unserved means in till we get this data the f c c can but that doesn't mean that we to the f c c on these type of issues because it is going to mean in nebraska well that one house out in the middle of nowhere that's being unserved is under served by some definition or not that's a huge policy decision that this committee should decide now i'm curious mr markey or bar helpful to some extent because most of our us is loan dollars so we don't get really anywhere the other point or one thing i would add that i do know is that under current law there is no obligation to use our u s dollars for unserved areas so does anybody mr markey would you know if on your what the a agriculture committee that there would be a lot of pressure to make sure that that was done correctly that may be a true statement that there'd be a lot of pressure but from experience by law they  this is a monumental undertaking that we need to take but doing it in a half past herd uncoordinated way and just saying the common goal here is to throw six billion dollars at the problem and quit asking any questions he is just too frustrating day and all you know you'll back you know many years back that his time will now proceed to vote on the stupak amendment all those in  let's do this we have votes on the floor and we will take an extra fifteen minutes after the vote is completed so that members may get something to eat and then we will reconvene to further consider this committee print for another thirty let's make it forty minutes and after that we're going to conclude the debate and vote on the committee print so let's figure we'll be back here at at two o'clock