again everyone welcome to another dition of time out for sports talk here at the belmont media center where twenty years we are continuing to go strong here and we continue to be belmont's first and only live all sports talk show my name is todd lonely hours it is monday night november the twenty fourth two thousand and fourteen we're going to be here live for the next sixty minutes take your phone calls at six one seven four eight four two four four three again that number six one seven four eight four two four four three you can also join us on facebook and your questions will appear at the bottom of the screen and we have a special show coming up for you tonight course to get it all started we're going to first introduce the gentleman to my left in the co pilot's chair as always how we mccloughan it is good to see you how we should be  times in a long time and let it go if they will if you had to go to western massachusetts you'd have some issues with yeah yeah i know that you've got a six hour hatch and i think that on a normal thanksgiving yeah that's true and it can be definitely so as i said we're here tonight i thanksgiving week and how we mention the football game i know there's a lot of other things going on in the sports world you know red sox hot stove and other patriots playing well and we're going to plenty of time to discuss those up throughout the as we get into the winter months so we will be talking about those on our next show we actually have a special show coming up tonight before we get into that special show i want to promote what's coming up on the a b m c it's be a sports television there is how we how just talking about high school football so have won three straight out if you're a no win seven started actually what was a twenty six game losing streak they snap that i was actually happy it's funny to say because a lot of the games that one is ever since they were this playoff format they're actually playing out of the middle six league because of the way two they beat them of the old to the old hold up to two points so anyway ninety third meeting belmont watertown and they'll be coming up on the be it just sports t v which will be channels nine and twenty nine we're going to a full crew there i'm actually part of the coverage i'm going to be doing the like the golden turkey leg or water or anything like magnets to do you know what at this rate based on what they've come up with for a pre game show anything is possible if i would not you know there may be very well be a turkey under the desk we're actually bringing the desk out on the set it's going to be a very elaborate pre game and then of course the of the coverage of the game as well as the mc channels in collaboration with the some folks from watertown cable and that's going to actually air on thanksgiving night the game will air at eight o'clock thanksgiving night on channels nine and twenty nine so you want to check that out it's going to be fun i'm kind of looking forward to it being part of the part of the whole production this year and other than a little cold with a looks like it have good weather so yeah i know as i know it looks like we're going to luck out there and of course we're talking you know here we are we c i suppose but even the marauder name itself only goes back it doesn't even go back the whole ninety three years of the rivalry is a thank you for finding out yeah i just came directly from the town library and i was trying to get access to the yearbooks and try to find what point the mirages nickname kicked in and i just grabbed some random ones with twenty years between them and i figured by sixty one a deal ok but i had the sixty one year book and there was no mention of any kind of team name at all what i was really trying to do was see if there were any ever any different types of mascots and logos associated with them or artist or if it's always been a pirate which is the logo i think they changed last season they modernized it so yeah but  red raiders i didn't look at high school names my book so but it's always appropriate as the naming patterns in college and high school and pros are all the same but yeah getting the red out is a big deal for college teams called raiders very often they've been associated historically with indian mascots and what the n c doubly is let them do is drop the word red and switch to a pirate mascot and in a few cases two or three they switch to a record raider because they're not raiders so yeah so it's always interesting even you can look at high school teams are always interesting they always fit one pattern or another in my book so yeah yeah i think the marauders i mean back when i played in the belmont th it actually almost looked like the raiders emblem of the the oakland raiders ok it is you know we have this sort of the mouth a little bit like the tampa bay buccaneers too yeah they had that one too but they decided to contemporize and kind of go with this logo right here as i try to show it to you and there it is this is the logo i could find for watertown they might have something more modern but i could not find it anywhere on any other websites that love it not the belmont was created by a student or anything was it like contest there was a contest they were actually going to just there were two versions and one of them looked very much like the buccaneer in the mouth version and that was just more kind of modernized and then they had this version they decided to go with this one i don't think this was the really designed by a student i think that because that looks a little too polished for me like i mean that looks like a lot of the modern day logos that we're seeing now from these different marketing companies so i'm guessing that somebody had a contact somewhere in some marketing place and and they designed that that's where they came up with that i mean it just looks a little too polished for me anyway so it you know anyway obviously teen nicknames we're talking about it's thanksgiving the rivalries and all that i think certainly glenn i think when it comes to team that there was you know after we get past you know marauders and raiders and talking about getting the red out i think one of the first things we need to talk about and certainly the hottest story with regard to team nicknames and you talk about it prominently in your book is the name redskins itself which of course goes all the way back to the days when the washington football team played here in boston in the boston area say have the use of the boston red skins sure for only one season only the thirty two season sorry only the thirty three to thirty seven seasons and thirty two they were the boston braves here's the original so this told you phone this this is the thirty two boston boston braves logo now what's interesting about the boston braves is they rented braves field off the national league team which is now the atlanta braves they've come to milwaukee since then so they simply repeat the name the next year already one year old they're moving to fenway park well an american league team is going to say yeah van on your national league nickname on into our american league park that's not going to fly now what names would they have considered i argue in my book that the today's washington redskins are named after the boston red sox because the nine hundred thirty three n f l already had cincinnati reds brooklyn dodgers new york football giants it once out of that one there were already four teams with the same exact name of the baseball words well so you would at least consider red sox the a team when you but then you would say you know what we don't have to change our logo very much that's the thirty two logo looks a lot like the modern logo but the the logo on the stationery for the thirty two boston braves looks exactly like the modern washington redskins and there are there it is there's a lot of florida we've all come to know very you know very distinguished looking logo certainly although drawing a lot of you know i are from folks who have been trying to get rid of the nickname for years but yeah it's i mean if they said you know and like you said what i think the origins of the name itself were certainly not out there to be offensive or derogatory or anything like that like you said they were trying to just name the you know the de took the they took the red from red sox and then they kind of kept the skins from the the braves days and i think that's kind of where they came up with that name but it wasn't you know they were again you know people look at that me now and they think something but back i think when that name was created it certainly had a different connotation it sounds silly to say this about an n f l team now but if you could get away without changing your uniforms you're up a few books and so if you don't have the tear the shoulder patches for changes stationary that's actually a lot of money back in the day when the n f l was struggling for attention against colleges colleges which refused to play on sunday because almost every college in the country at one time had evolved from a protestant seminary they weren't going to so that left this day open and you know the struggling for recognition so they don't have a lot of money to say well let's just get some new uniforms every ten minutes like they do today when every time you turn your head there's a new retro design or alternate uniform alternate road jersey you know teams for the first time and you know what's a nickname a nickname is an informal name by definition you don't vote on a nickname and copyright it and go get a patented logo the go with it that's just not a nickname that's why seems a little stilted but my title is north american team names not north american nicknames so i just don't think anything is driven by having another team in the eagles because when these teams come up north north dakota is struggling right now to replace t fighting sioux and i wrote to them earlier in the week and i said before you guys narrowed it narrowed down to a finalist take a look at my blog post on how every single team is choosing between red hawks and wolves and eagles because you know they're all change at the same time and don't realize that there are like a bazillion red hawks out there that used to be something else and the choices are getting limited and i just argue these aren't even nicknames and pull their games of animals well i guess i guess the animals don't have a lobby group you know so they're safe from at least that being who i yeah it's apparent they're the only ones who can talk so sure but no i mean you what you see you just to get you know you talk about these different names and right i mean there are those names are all or all comfortable names to use and nothing wrong with them but you know kind of again bringing this back to the whole redskins controversy and we actually have some questions here when stay up where i'm from the university of law which is now you mass law before though it was low tech and it attracted people from the immediate area and that's the way state colleges used to operate and cleveland state simply sits very close to another high school that had vikings as a mascot and whatever year and i forget the year the kids just stuff the ballot box the kids from down the street just stuff the ballot box and came up with vikings the problem is there's no really good reason that high school had vikings teams so sometimes these trails just run dry but that is not a great story there except that there was a clear conspiracy by the students which is always fun actually i saw a banana slugs go by and i don't know the question was but i'll address it maybe this in the digital world that must be it we are we're trying our best to keep up with the bugs well i actually do the answer to this one where the yankees called highlanders but why don't we want to ask about the you know we can't get the the other question but the thing about the banana slugs it was probably just asking what is the origin of the banana slugs and it's a very unique nickname yeah you know about that and first of all where or what is it university california santa cruz that's it so what happened there is the administration wanted to have you know they wanted to raise the profile of the teams and at these smaller schools i want community go before i went to you mass amherst and there's no emphasis on athletics unless you play shortstop you know so we hardly knew we had teams see santa cruz is not a big school but they had an intramural team called banana slugs no banana slug lives in the floor of the the redwood forest in california where the administration decided they would be sea wolves and there's like five years for all of a sudden everybody cared and so the kids just wouldn't stop calling them banana slugs and finally they folded so it's a little bit similar to the ballot box stuff in a cleveland state the kids just you know decided what they were going to do and out on their own to make it happen i found that it just seemed i was there when i was driving by i went i went way out of my way to get to u c santa cruz than the person i was traveling with would have liked and i said i just want to see you know if your team's a bears i don't expect to see a bear on your campus but i want to see if i could find a banana slug and i parked the car you are twenty feet into that redwood forest and you going to step out of it in a slug it's a yellow slug about it inches long and it lives everywhere and there is common is i'd say the more suppose that's where the name comes from right i don't know the latin name for banana slug but that is the actual name of the thing so and then the dick you know if you haven't seen and like we haven't seen them live they see them all the time out there and you know the kind we're looking man they're they're very thin all and i think i saw the word i think i suppose fiction in the question and ok so tie that it well so what happens is in pulp fiction john travolta you know they end up with blood all over their clothes and they end up having to go to somebody's house and they get change in whatever hand me downs laying around so he's wearing some really poorly fitting banana slugs t shirt and so what's funny is these students who didn't like their teams enough to care about a world class nickname who wanted the silly little name get tons of attention every time a movie shows on cable which is every five minutes somewhere so there's a little bit of irony there the same thing at this scottsdale has a community college which the teams in the artichokes and again it was that students were valiant against the administration trying to put a more standard nickname on them and now that team has those teams of famous nationally because they have such a silly name so that kind of backfired like that the other chokes yeah tasty as well we're going to go to the phones here at six one seven a history of discussing big bang on the radio in this so and i don't remember did i think you won that one if i'm not mistaken and i'm not so sure about that but so let the cat out of the bag i mark hosts they hosted or host the history of the toledo my defense which anybody who's ever from toledo a baseball fan or event was smashed in the just the last it's fascinating that glenn was able to find his tree of the mud hens and the response that i got from listeners was phenomenal and i would really strongly encourage if there's a sports fan on your christmas list this would make an excellent book for them what's the what's the most difficult piece of information what's that one thing that you found that you're the proudest of that's a part of this book ok well as soon as i say it the cat's out of the bag but i'm down in jacksonville stay in florida they have teams of dolphins and it came from a vote in one thousand nine hundred seven to become green dolphins and i just got shortened t dolphins well what nobody down there seems to have noticed is three and a half weeks before their vote m g m released this blockbuster movie called on green dolphin street which we don't know much about in the issue of jazz fan the theme to that the movie  become an enormous jazz standard that everybody plays but this thing won a special oscar an oscar for special effects for its earthquake now if we watch it it looks like somebody shaking a bunch of styrofoam but this is one nine hundred forty seven it is it's inconceivable to me the kids voting you know four weeks after this blockbuster movie was released you know when you would have seen it everybody doesn't go on day one you know they go over the first month inconceivable to me they would have been thinking of this movie subliminally when they voting a month later and i compare it to you get to nine hundred eighty two and at the milwaukee school of engineering which is an engineering college in wisconsin obviously they all dressed up as indiana jones for a photo shoot in one thousand nine hundred two and now those teams are raiders but their mascot is now a raccoon and we discussed earlier so the indiana jones thing is lost well there's no way in one thousand nine hundred two people were associated raiders with raiders of the lost ark well so there's no way you're going to get me to ever believe that these kids  jacksonville state weren't thinking of green dolphin street when they named the teams the green dolphins and forty seven so now the whole world has that information because of your massive what age and and it's going to get buried on the internet and no one will know that i found it well there you go well you know i actually while i don't we have mark on the phone here but while we're talking about this one what actually compelled you to write this book i mean it's a big book there's a lot of nicknames a lot of history in there and talk a little bit about just your impetus for writing the book but i assume  is similar to you guys which is by about two thousand and two i was tired of watching cats try to play the piano on the intimate and i said surely this tool can be for something else and i started just writing for myself an irreverent history of western civ because when you write it down and you organize the pieces you remember it as a separate project i was trying to get the true history behind these nicknames because when you go on the internet you end up with a bunch of anecdotes you do get history i mean in some cases they tell you the guy who submitted the winning entry got two tickets to a movie you know for getting drawn out of a hat and he couldn't find a date so he took his mom that's fine that's very localized history but that doesn't help us know why it seems called the cavaliers of the black in years or whatever so i had these two  and when i got to the english civil war in the cavalier faction it just crashed into the university of virginia cavaliers and i said boy i wonder how many cases this will work in and i went down this rabbit hole for like eleven  i thought it would take finally at nine years i was correct i had two years to go but i have i've talked to every sports information director and every library archivist and every college in the country i have eight hundred footnotes so that nobody can say that you know talking to my hat and i thought there were about twenty eight hundred teams in and i made every effort to put every division one school in it in some way or another i mean if you're just eagles for no reason i kind of found a way to stick in there in a footnote or something and so as three thousand teams are in the index now i went down this trip this row thinking there were hundreds and hundreds of colleges the united states how many would you think of in the united states i couldn't even guess five thousand well ok so you're smarter than me because had i known had i known there were five thousand i would've gone about this completely differently i would've made a five thousand cell spreadsheet because tracking this stuff without doing that was crazy anybody out there and they're both forty six hundred but it kind of depends on how you count em so you're very close but i thought they were going to be like you know fifteen hundred and the man yeah exactly  yeah it's amazing i mean because it's just the thought my head i think there's one hundred twenty five division one n c a a football teams and those are only the major college and then all the small ones that you know the community college is the you know  divisions two and three yeah there's a lot of those in different parts of the country certainly around here we have a lot of the three schools but doubt unlike like the southeast is a lot of division two programs midwest as well not as many around here but your fair share  kind of bring this back a little bit we were kind of talking about the redskins let's go back to it do you think i mean there's a lot of pressure to change that name but but glenn do you think that's ever going to happen realistically your should have maybe you know maybe there's two different questions there the and will it have i don't i don't like to ask the should it happen unlike the answer the question whether i think it will happen to me it really comes down to whether you're talking about over the short or the near term because this took this took forty years  north dakota for the fighting to go away and then i have a i have a blog where you have a timeline and man i get fed up with the timeline halfway through it's unbelievably convoluted and political it's just i want to try to get to it redskins nickname is going to go away today's new yorker today there was a cover that people might want to look at easy to find online there was mocking the thanksgiving this is the thanksgiving show the pilgrims are sitting around smoking cigars drinking beer watching the game and welcoming in some indians who are kind of staring at them like yeah this really isn't their scene it will go away will it be within three years i don't know the problem is eventually it will be all anybody talks about the only discussion about this team which is terrible right now at the national level is this if they get good dave zirin of the nation argues if the team gets good the pressure is going to be on them more so if you remember the ninety five world series had the braves against the indians that was a big big deal so when people say oh where this come from all of a sudden well ok let's backtrack to ninety five and start there but really one thing that you know shocked me the redskins were named in thirty thirty two the boston redskins the last indian war on the plains was nineteen twenty six so how empowered could there these people have been to have a voice when you have just finish pushing the last of them on to the reservations so it's a little bit like you got to wind the clock back and then you get online the clock forward and then you see the band really isn't that wide for this not being an issue but so the answer you question it will go away i don't know if it's going to be september or september of two thousand and eighty you know but eventually it will it will not be that's you see i find it interesting that there's a lot more controversy about the redskins name than there was about the indians name you bring up the ninety five world series but since that world series took place no one's really talking about the indians very much and yet and again i don't know if this plays into it at all we saw the  washington redskins logo i think a lot of people are very familiar with the cleveland indians logo with chief wahoo which i think since the indians franchise has tried to minimize how often that appears it's not really part of their marketing campaign anymore it's definitely been minimized pushed aside you don't see that i very often but i mean does that play a hand in it because again if you look at the redskins logo we can pop it up on screen again maybe really quick the current logo i mean it again at least it's a distinguished depiction of you know an indian chief  what and yet you know compared to the indians logo which you know they totally was like a cartoon character and we can go into the origins of where that came from to possibly and you know used it was more derogatory in nature and yet you know you don't hear the clamoring for getting rid of the indians logo the same way it goes back to what he just said if the indians get good again and stop playing in the world series maybe it will come to the forefront the redskins haven't been in a super bowl in thirty years you know like i said if they get real famous again if they st read it will become more of that often i guess that's my argument though the redskins are ok but they haven't been to super bowl three decades and yet this is a hot topic right now so i guess that's where i'm i'm just trying to figure out the difference well the difference the difference is again this isn't my football being more popular sport because now it's if you open up a dictionary it says the word redskins is pejorative word derogatory will choose one of those and if you look up the word indians it's not necessarily derogatory so the word itself many people most every dictionary defines it as a racial slur that's the difficulty ok now what the indian with the indians are doing with chief wahoo is very very interesting is he slipping father and father and father into the background the trying to get rid of them without saying that getting rid of them i don't know why they don't just get rid of them i mean i believe the neon sign offended that they got rid of well i think the neon sign is well the problem here's the problem the indians have if they get back off chief wahoo now what's the next problem now the next problem is the nickname so one way chief wahoo is insulating their name the same way that not having a team in los angeles is something the n f l can always use the pressure of the teams like they have this buffer between them and their nickname and it's chief wahoo so they have to negotiate through that first and to me that's why the team has just dumped him out the window because you know they got to fight that battle and then see how the the lay of the land the redskins right in front of everybody simply because when you look it up in the dictionary it's a racial slur let's see a little check our twitter feed with you we have any updated questions here with regards to what he was again we're being joined by glaad arthur pierce is the he wrote the book naming rights and we have is there a better nickname in sports than the lord chefs that would be amherst college kind of part of my broadcasting stomping grounds having called some members of the new england small college athletic conference also factually known as the nest pack documentation for that however there seems to be documentation that lord geoffrey amherst entertained the thought of giving giving indians smallpox infested blankets he did there's no evidence he did it but there's a letter apparently that somebody saw so the problem is you also realize if this was if this was happening in two thousand and fourteen with the media and being guilty before your proven innocent kind of world jeffrey ebbers would not have gotten off as good as the he probably did back that yeah but the problem with this is the reason i think that this one is really interesting is if you back off the name lord jeffs now you left with amherst college ok what are you going to back off the name your college ok are you going to back off the name of your town so i ad is a slippery slope and this is the slippery asst of slippery slope so i would say to the great i'm not going to say whether there's a better nickname but there's no more slippery slope even then the lord jesu of amherst college of everest massachusetts named after lawyer geoffrey if from williams wasn't up to as much trouble as jeffrey evers talking about the founder of yeah town and williams college they were their big rivals and the rest yeah well i mean actually you know as you probably know those the schools respond off one another because even the people running williams college thought they were too far know too far west to be in the loop so some of them broke away and start an amorous and that's what all the bad blood suppose a bad the good natured bad blood is about but the reason williams is actually even a reason williams is so far west is the whole point was to make sure the new yorkers one of the entire hudson valley and that includes the other bank and that takes in that whole region in massachusetts so the whole idea of massachusetts was to hold it the pretense was to hold it against the french and the indians the real intent was to hold it against the new yorkers believe it or not and so that's why they were so far west in and decades go by and the bunch of guys say what do we do and out here you notice it was certainly not a fight the french were serving to fight the indians of the new yorkers so they broke away and created amherst so let's just say that i said to the great as you know there's no better nickname in the lower jeffs let's go at that but oh well how about you know i would argue well we're going to stick in the next tack for a second i want to we have  one of these i do need one of these here we go here in analog man in a digital world you know i am i literally am ok here we go i think i got it if it ever decides to pop up are right well there it is sort of a little bit anyway you can see the  jumbo elephant on the left and the of the toughs husks and the t on the right now actually ears the other reason i want to bring this one up really quick i mean the team name and of course the elephant itself has defined how we describe sizes i mean you know magine if the elephants name was like you know i don't know like some crazy like randolph or something everyone to be saying small medium large and randolph you know that was you know are not going to work at all so i'm just i just wrote a random name which should have been sillier but my point being that you know you take jumbo and now obviously the elephant's name jumbo it's become a word we use synonymous with large things and of course you know it gets up university jumbos because of the p t barnum connection yeah well jumbo is actually there at the jumbo was hit by a train in canada and i believe they built barnum had a natural history museum on the grounds of toughs yes i believe they built a museum around him yes the problem was when they converted to a student union they couldn't take them out so the kids would always meet at the trunk of a jumbo and i think it was seventy eight or seventy nine the building burned down now this is where where you always want to watch for in these stories is as legend has it  picked it up in decades past they would hold it up to the chair or they would rub it for good luck between games i'm assured they no longer do that yeah i mean i think the whole some of the traditions got i think maybe for some big games they still occasionally do it but it's it's an interesting tradition anyway why don't we talk about we've got some various logos here that instill some different stories glenn i want you to bring up i'm going to actually call this lo because it's got one of my favorite all time to it's got two of my favorite all time logos and one of my all time favorite teams that no longer exists we're talking about the milwaukee brewers that's not my favorite team but it is a very cool logo and the hartford whalers i believe we have the lo we have rather ordinary but that logo i mean if we see that logo again i mean you know glenn you look at that i mean you know how long i mean i have to admit it took me a while as a kid to even recognize there was an m in a b in there that was shaped like a catcher's bat i always said i always said it was the worst logo i'd ever seen even though it's graphically pleasing and one days and i was the i was too old for this somebody said well yeah but you know there's the m in the big and i said what do you mean you know so i agree it's the greatest logo in the world if you're perceptive enough to realize there are two letters there the thing i like about both of those is there are there are people i'm not necessarily one who say it's not a logo unless there are letters incorporated into it this goes into the etymology of the word logo this one has letters in it binghamton new york days the bigots and whalers logo what they did was they took that whalers logo and they turned it on its side and it was shaped like a bee which to me was even you know it right next to milwaukee brewers has to be the most ingenious idea hartford right and then they came up with that pretty clever logo so why don't we stick with well while we're sticking with hockey i think we could probably go right from the whalers to to to a very traditional hockey team that has been around for years and continues to exist today or course we're talking about the montreal canadiens i guess you when you have a story about this logo well it's all going over letters of the logo yeah well this is this is i think it's the not i don't know sure thing one hundred seven is the first year they a good angle phone team a good english speaking team and in fact the french were locked out of the power structure in canada really yes and so this was explicitly put together as a french team by a rival team they said we need to pick on a market and we're going to pick on the french market and that is the reason it's spelled with an easy it's a french spelling you like well there in quebec no it was expressly to appeal to french fans and people flocked to it and so only a nine hundred twenty four did somebody tex record who on the texas rangers he's in fact is the namesake of the texas rangers somebody told him that it's to five tons and he repeated it to everybody he met for the rest of his life apparently an hour all stuck with that story but all of the haves the being and that is in fact a nickname and what a nickname is supposed to be so it's great that we have nicknames for nicknames but in this case in this case if i it's the club i don't speak french is the club  hockey mom sunday montreal or something like that so that's one if you want to win money in a bar bet somebody that one yeah it's plain old hockey is that a too simple yeah well you are right you're right a trap well let's stick with we'll stick with hockey two we've got another wrong here we've got the washington capitals logo which i guess this is this is their current logo that they've switched it so many times in the last few years i thought they went back to i don't know if they still use this one i think it might have gone back to something that looked almost like they're older logo from the seventy's but anyway but here you know let's point out what's clever about this look yeah this isn't so much a clever name i mean washington capitals you know we can all figure that out what's interesting about the logo is the capitol dome is between the wings and i didn't know that until somebody showed it to me about a month ago so if you did right you can see i don't see how the guy didn't see them in the bay in milwaukee brewers so euro don't ask me these things but there was a letter in there too that we could have the wings in the shape of a w yeah why i also think that was if you go back to it really quick i think that was a highlighting of the w which was in there the navy blue oh yeah i think it's supposed to kind of make  i want to get back to nest cat really quick here that was the nest logo that we actually have on display for connecticut college and i know there's a story behind this too so that the camels let's go to the camels connecticut college so we talk about this one a little bit and this one is great because there are two stories both stories reveal the institutional history and this is why i wanted to write my book because this is a newer logo by the way kind of like the tops logo we show yeah earlier this one's been modernized it used to just look like a drawing of a camel but now it's kind of got that sleek kind of marketing look to it go it was a silhouette of a camel standing until two thousand and nine and this is the new one but that the two creation stories are when the school went it was a women's women's college when it went coed in hundred sixty nine there were so few men on campus that they needed every one of them for the basketball team regardless of talent so these guys considered themselves to be about as athletic as camels so that's one story about the transition from a women school to a coed school the other one is during its days and this is where you have to really wonder about the you according to legend stuff it's just a great story this one you don't care if anybody made this one up it's too good a story on wednesday when it was a women's college they had afternoon teas and so how much sugar would you like with your coffee would you like one or two and that's what camel says it's another alternate creation story for camels is about the home about the lumps of the day is also known as well yes i mean yes you're right there you go so it could and that could mean that could be the origin of that you should write a book well you know time out for many years we stay here on wednesdays for we are actually moved to we got off the hump and moved to monday but what i love what i love about that story about the character college is no matter which story it is it's the  history hiding in plain sight and that's why i wanted to write the book and i incorporated it into a bunch of other women's colleges a transition to coed and so the stories aren't the not all like that are camels but it's really they do some very clever things as we head into the last fifteen minutes the show want to get your phone calls or welcome here at six one seven four eight four two four four three or you can do twitter i'm almost going to kind of him the reins over to you glenn maybe call up some different we have some other logos that we can put up on the screen here and maybe talk about some of your favorite or are actually these are more teen names maybe necessarily than they are the logos itself but you know great stories that you had while you were putting this book together you know with some of these logos i suppose this is one of them right here well this is this is close to my heart because for much of his life and that's where i was raised what i like about this is there's a chapter in my book about the quaker migration from pennsylvania across the old northwest territory all the way to california eventually this is the last stop  on the quaker tour and there's literally if you plot a trail if you trace quaker teams on a map you will get an arc that goes from the east coast right to california it's the same route as the quaker migration across the country and that's that's one thing that by by incorporating these team names together you're able to see that i mean there are quicker colleges in indiana that have teams of quakers great you can look that up a million places and find out that's why they call quakers but if you discuss them together you see a whole migration pattern where they were kicked out of the carolinas because they became abolitionists and it became illegal to free your slaves so they when they cross the ohio to the old northwest where slavery was legal the established colleges there with quakers and little quakers they can move in across the poet i almost thought of i almost don't want to answer your question but that is johnny quaker and they're named after john greenleaf whittier and i don't i think again i'm from haven so maybe i'm a little too close to this i don't think that's an accurate depiction of john really where you're at all founded college in south carolina that is called presbyterian college now you know the blue house blue hose which looks like an alternate to red sox and white sox in fact if you go back to the time of the english civil wars and if somebody said to me oh you're writing a book on team nicknames you're going to need a chapter on the english civil wars i would have told them they were crazy but it's a very good chapter and during the commonwealth period the staunch conservative presbyterians in parliament in britain were called old blue stocking presbyterians and that's why presbyterian college has teams of blue hose because it's derived from blue stocking i love that one ok ok here you go yep now todd you want to know about this one well after you talk about this i'm going to tie you i'm going to bring up another the new york nothing so you're either going to refer to something in new jersey or you're going to just refer to something so general that it can't be tied to any time or place and they said fine you know it with the new jersey generals which is too bad because new jersey is called the crossroads of the revolution and any number of generals was in there all the time bringing their armies back and forth the problem is with a five star logo it divorces themselves from the revolution because there was no five star rank until the twentieth century so they can't even claim it was tied to the revolution so in fact the new jersey generals are general by the demand of the of the medal and while i know it's crazy it's pretty crazy story ok well actually i'm sorry before we go to that see you jumped the gun here you get into the whole thing with breakers and you literally were reading my mind i think when you wrote this because this is what they were when they were the boston breakers but the breakers during the course of three seasons moved from boston to new orleans and if we go to new orleans they could have they could actually put the break that way now because they're down in the south but again still on the coast and then over here by the third year they were playing in portland oregon so they were on the west coast and the break would have been going in the other direction so and the reason they were the reason they're on page two is i didn't want to just look at names that are current because in this politically charged environment one safe bet is to resurrect a name of the past so here's a team that was in the east coast ocean breakers they go down to the gulf of mexico breakers works they go out to portland oregon in the pacific coast breakers works then that team folds well now we have a women's soccer team at the top level where they breakers active so back at last and that's how they got on page two is saying look here is you're going to be seeing these names again and in many cases i only i only tried to define it for the earliest team all of the teams being derived there from denver broncos actually follow a baseball team go denver broncos ok as you mentioned a lot of the football teams followed the baseball teams back it was a black college and it's named after william wilberforce who was a lead abolitionist in he helped get rid of the slave trade in the british empire makes perfect sense that a black college would be named for william wilberforce in one thousand nine hundred two or so the football team they fight like bulldogs completely standard fare the problem is when we're forced also found in the s p ca the society for for the prevention of cruelty to animals the reason he did that is in england they were tying bowls to a steak and then just second dogs on him and watching with the animal to death and he thought this this required a christian reformation of manners so he was truck trying to get rid of the dog that they were breeding for this purpose so the dog they were breeding for this purpose is the old english bulldog so if you want said the william wilberforce hey what do you want the teams your college called he probably would have said i'm good with anything except the bulldogs obviously not bulldogs or somebody lost that history in between and they fought like bulldogs in the twenty's now they're bulldogs so a school a school breaks away from wherever force goes across the street and in central state university so now and this is true today there are only two things wilberforce ohio and there were four shooter versity and central state university central st teams are marauders which we know  can be pirates in many places i found where they said that these were that marauders were black kept in ships off the west coast of africa that would interest cept slave ships and free their human cargo and bring them back to africa to live in freedom though the problem with that is i read like every book on privacy in the world piracy in the world and found no reference so i just finally wrote to him and said listen i keep saying your i keep seeing your former president floating the story everywhere and so i get this e mail trail with all kinds of  the public relations people in it and finally somebody came back and said you know what i think we made this up but the reason there isn't i kind of came down on him at a book is i think the last business a college needs to be in is making up history for fun so these schools are next to each other in my book so what i've decided to do is never ever go to wilberforce ohio you know because i don't think i have any friends there after the crash eastern procreated mascot nicknames in the world so and again they're the only two things in town so if i drive down the road i'm just going to step on the left and i were in the is story we've got about five minutes left doug oh i definitely want to get to this one for you glenn before we  wrap up i know it's been a fast moving hour this is what you officially called the team name that really isn't a team name at all shouldn't be a team name and it still exists today it started in philadelphia moved on to kansas city and is now residing in oakland and  major league baseball of course we're talking about the eighty's or the logic so go ahead yeah what's interesting about this is this is basically a team waiting for a nickname to evolve and it just never happened and nobody really noticed this  least it would have happened organically it would have gone to a vote of reporters or something like that so what happened is there was a team called the philadelphia athletic club and they fielded a team in the eight hundred eighty s they folded up another team came along not associated with the club but as these things go this is a safe nickname that's the name nickname people know they move a couple times like you said and i'm not sure when it dawned on anybody that they really don't have a nickname so i kind of salute them for sticking it out and waiting for it to have happen organically however they used to be a bazillion you know town athletic clubs everywhere any one of which could have been the athletics it's just it's kind of funny it's hiding in plain sight as a nine nickname in way that the elephant come from one thousand nine hundred three i think the our entire hardworking crew tonight folks in the control room we got jeff adam lucas julie we got shut out here running camera how we always thanks to you glenn thank you for joining us and yes it's been fun please have me back our next show by the way is coming up  december twenty second we'll catch up on all the other boston seems then but we're glad we could have could have glenn here tonight for the special show again you know pick up the book if you're into t nicknames and you know there's a lot to read as we said it's a thick book and thousands of nicknames cover it is glenn said of his book we just scratched the surface here tonight thank you thank you it was fun all right well then until next month again you guys have a wonderful thanksgiving and we will see you in december goodnight