will the infrastructure environmental management meeting please come to order today's february first two thousand and sixteen and the time is one thirty members of an audience please silence any cell phones or any noise making devices and let me introduce the members that are here myself i'm the chair really cochran and we have robert carrol aloha and our staff we have legislative analyst scott jensen also shadowing us as legislative analyst steve see and then sick committee secretary renae yap she's distributing some paperwork for us as i speak we have two items on the agenda and i am eleven parent two which is a general type item which is the orientation workshop by department today of public works and item two i am ten which is about the lord bridge health and safety concerns and will be over for discussion on these two items at this time members without objection is i will open the floor for testimony and let me set the parameters thank you ms rice and let me set the parameters thirty minutes to testify please stick to the items that are on the agenda today and please state your name any organization affiliation you're here with and sign up at the front desk in the lobby area so members at this time let me without objections let me open up for public testimony to thank you very much and let me check in with our district fourth i don't know if it's appropriate to pass it around to to the say ok yeah i took this photo myself and where i witnessed three county workers spraying heavily at school and i went and spoke with the three county employees just to verify that it was a guy for say containing herbicide and they confirmed that it was round up  and i you know when you're driving by the school and there is like plumes of herbicide it just really struck a red flag for me and i just wanted to you know really express my concern because i just it's not ok with me and as the mother of two children i just really want to say say to you for you know keeping this conversation alive and  you know it's not ok with me but it's also not ok with a lot of other people and i took the photo and within a couple of hours i had a few hundred people sharing and also expressing their concern so thank you for not giving up on this you know as a mother i just really feel grateful to have an outlet to come and express my concern over this i took this second photo actually just this morning there the water line in this photo is down the river is down a little bit it's been a little dry but the water line regularly comes up right to the spray line that you can see in the photo again this is another area that's really concerning for me to have our waterways being regularly blasted with this life is a containing herbicide so i want to make sure this picture can go around  possible you know my honesty is that products that are designed to kill other there again occur not are going to do their job but i would say that for now hopefully we can come to this point of agreement that this is not ok it's not ok to be spraying these next to our schools and one of our power possible solutions and thank you so much to this committee for entertaining this possibility goes through you know periods of being totally full and not right but it is regularly in my consideration being over sprayed i've been a sailor for years and i've watched the wind speeds and i was just and to be thank you ms seven do you want copies made for the members of your photos and then the originals given back is that which i don't need the originals back you can see i met them i guess and then we can have copies made for our by yours thank you any further  and i'm also yoga teacher and wild food enthusiastic a long term visitor and a world traveler but above all as a human being sharing this earth with the rest of you i chose to represent those who can speak the pollinators the animals the children and future life to poisons pollute the body and the spirit open your eyes what is external is internal by spraying the plants as a temporary solution we are creating a long term problem we are the earth what we inflict on it we impose on not only ourselves but each other and the entire ecosystem i choose to live closely to but i honor and respect the land my nourishment comes from her and in all forms i fuk medicine and livelihood the fact that others have chosen to inflict this upon not disruption of the microbes function and life cycle what's worse is life is a preferentially affects beneficial bacteria along pathogens to overgrow and take over at that point your body has to contend with the toxins produced by the pathogens ones inflammation said soon you're well on the way to a deadly cycle this destruction of cycles is detrimental to the flow we all exist in life he gets life because it's life unnaturally infiltrating that is toxic and i believe there is a better option for the i know thank you very much thank you for your testimony members any need for clarification of our testifier ciena thank you for your time test the next test to fire is raymond cole kohli he'll be followed by brad fellows processes that government has to go through and all that i would certainly like to ask you to help us in this matter to take care afternoon chair cocking in all council members i really appreciate you guys being here my name's brad edwards and i'm testifying on behalf of hawaii opposition to pesticide exposure it's a group a local group on mali a little bit of history about how i got involved is back in may i was the one that called in for and filed a complaint for the spring on the highway next to comolli elementary school it was a day when they were having there was a lot of people in the area they drove down the road sprayed and drove off  when i called the department of ag they made it sound like if they follow the label everything's fine we get calls like this all the time so i actually looked up the label read it and there on the part of it says please keep people not please it says keep people and pets away until the solution dri s so i filed my complaint based on that took a couple months thomas matsuda finally sent a notice a violation out to the department transportation saying they did not take any measures to keep people and pets away a couple months later there continued to be more violations there's a lot of people on all the islands working very hard on this issue a lot of groups people are very very vigilant about taking photographs and videos when violations happen so i ended up calling thomas matsuda again i asked him to send a memo to state and county agencies letting them know that this was a rule and they had to take measures and he refused to do so he actually was on record stating that if he was knowing that they were violating the label and he wouldn't do anything about it that's what thomas matsuda said so i called the p and that's how the p a got involved so a little bit of history to thomas matsuda is there's also a fair amount of homes in pa ia and other parts of maui it looks like they're testing positive for multiple herbicides in the home ryznar from the e p a and california the federal oversight for the state of hawaii i'm all three of them are on a conference call that was regarding this issue of life estate as well as other pesticide issues where the e p a has stepped up their oversight of the state they consider some very serious issues that are coming up with state authority and state involvement thomas notified that he didn't have the authority to cite any state or county agencies i just got off the phone with the e p a and they said that is not their understanding he does have the power he especially has the power to cite county agencies and they fully expect county agencies to adhere to the label which means keep people in pets the way they are going to be in a conversation with thomas matsuda probably today or in the next couple days about this issue so i just want to to really encourage i know the state department of transportation has done some things to switch over county parks and public works  there's going to be a lot of publicity coming out on this and some other issues regarding the department of agriculture soon so i'm hoping that they'll do the right thing and switch over before that publicity comes on us so we can say we actually took the initiative and did what we needed to do the last thing is that i did make them aware of the haiku incident at the school e p a i spoke with them today they once again i'm going to send them the videos and a description of that but they said they fully expect people and pets to be kept away and they also one thing noted that individuals can be cited so i don't know if that means that i need to read up on clarify if that means the deputy director of public works or the deputy director of public works or if it's the individual applicator but they made it very clear that not only can the agency be cited but the individual applicator can be cited so by putting employees in harm's way making employees apply it in a way that's not practicing what the label please wrap up and then have written please submit perfect could result in so i just want to first start by saying thank you to the public works department it is my understanding that they are really trying to work hard to get this issue solved so that you know the public is safe and our keiki are safe and i really appreciate that and all the people you know that were in contact with and are couldn't be here to testify they they also do really appreciate that there's been some good news recently which will be another person that will go into more detail about it but i just spoke to steve rogers from the state department of transportation this morning and he offers his his room and all his staff even though they have already made the switch completely to certified organic herbicide for all  their roadside spraying for everything they still really would like to have some more training so there's a group called beyond pesticides that is willing to come here for free of charge and train all the staff  every every department that is currently engaging in spraying practices and train them in in alternate ways that also include not spraying at all but  a certified organic spray that does not contain glyphosate is is far better than than one containing glyphosate so with that being said i mean it is my understanding that that the public works will be hopefully involved with that training as well which is awesome so with that in mind there's two there's two issues for me that are pretty on the forefront what and one is the spraying along bodies of water because there you have to have a permit for that and at this point the county does not have a permit for that you need to the e p a in california is labeling itself not just round up the glacis eight as a carcinogen not not a probable carcinogen but actually a carcinogen so although theoretically it's not supposed to be of concern because you're able to spray it along the water it is it's actually worse than regular which is pretty bad already so but we know there's no permit for that so that is something that we're definitely going to be hoping will change and we're also keeping an eye on just in case it doesn't so thirty seconds  think and the other thing is is is is the the signage there hasn't ever been proper signage and in a particular incident that i you know made some phone calls i recorded a video  talked to the workers who are all extremely nice they were driving along lower one no appeal on the highway and spraying and in that that area of road not only is that along the water but it is very windy and so if somebody comes out of their house maybe even just twenty yards down the road and there's no proper signage they'll be walking their dog literally right in where they had just spray master and that's really pretty dangerous because it's windy you can't see ahead and they were also spraying directly on the dragon fruit which is also on the label you're supposed to avoid all you know  and things like that so they they were spraying on the dragon fruit they didn't actually know that it was dragged through it when i talked to them about it but you know that these are things that i think beyond pesticides can really really help with because  they have done trainings all over the country in tropical climates in areas that are really tough and they've been successful everywhere they've gone so i think this is this is the best option for us right now and hopefully we can get parks and thirty six seconds the red light at three o three minutes indicates the time as a lapsed ok so the secret to you he said thirty seconds i let you go on and on so anyway ok just trying to get clear think you greenlee and i'm here to present a few pictures and present some testimony on helping to stop round up another talk six substances from being sprayed on our roadways and waterways and in our parks the first one i have is a picture of my friend's dog that actually walked through the roundup after it was sprayed and it almost died also at the pictures for you to see quite horrific pictures for people to see and actually process that these can happen to your children if they're walking through it after people spray it and don't put up the proper signage i'm also going to be presenting some follow up for sunny savages testimony i have a picture that she had as well as some pictures that i took that were after the fact that are going over into the parking area where the children and their families will park and of course they walk through all these areas there is one there showing how bad it was sprayed all the way here and could walk to the bus stop they walk their dogs again no proper signage so people can just walk through it and get injured like this dog for example  there's a few other pictures that i'll be submitting here that are for waterways that the county sprayed some mailboxes and also some endangered species like the homeowner that has some tumors that have been proven by did a study and it actually says agricultural runoff is causing this so any of the toxic substances except like to say it sprayed on the side goes into the rivers goes into the ocean so it's affecting everything you know marine life and everything tim and i also presented this with to you that's a petition that has been going on for a few months now and it has now one thousand nine hundred twenty nine signatures as i printed it up this morning and so this clearly shows the community really has some support behind county and public works switching over to some organic products such as the state department has successfully done and that's all thank you very much no chair ladies and gentlemen of the council i wish we had had this meeting at least twenty years ago thank you for greg godwin from i was a medic well trained by the air force travel in many countries and i'm surprised what we are getting here in the way of endangered health for example two thousand and six the and i didn't know that they were doing that spray until i saw the dead weeds no one here on maui could figure out what was wrong in that going to a doctor expert in oh and he discovered it was guy a phosphate a we had he is i think from germany the bandage treatments beyond by insurance cost me an additional two thousand with but my budget makes it difficult so it's going to be very costly and cns of course is a part of this but if you folks are kind enough to relieve the voters that have helped elect you not just here but men women and children elderly molokai you know you folks reached beyond just this one island so we voted for you and hope you will help us clean up this hazard is the ladies before smoke we need healthier things and i could probably run on more but we need your help especially since the mayor is not doing the help we and i see i have right now thank you very much and i think i thank you for your time members any need for clarification seen none thank you sir next justifier the next testif i'm the only one that lives up on that property so i'm the only one that sees what actually goes on up there there is a lot of illegal actions up there i was hoping that david taylor or somebody from the line in pine was there i have pictures  we like to see these are the water ditches that actually go into the water reserve and also there is a well that is dug out there and i actually have a friend that was part of that wipe oil line a digging company and it has very very large and a significant mineral content is the only river that has a freshwater seaweed that gives a highly active mineral content that makes it super water it's pure there's so much i there's so much he via in that water it's beautiful and it's so precious and secret that place and i love that place i try to protect that place with all my heart when i went up there i found the bright is rounding up and they went with a big truck and they rounded up all the water ditches and this is drinking water and where the dye went from the water well it goes all the way past down to the ocean so this is actually getting into our water aquifer and i have i didn't bring my paper but i also have all this is really taylor so i'm not sure who to address about this but this is actually a private water way for the drinking and my family gave it for the community you know and now then and then it was his don't come i gave darlene  email that should probably give to you guys there was so much in any gooses up there and there's there was a self whole flaw and ever since they rounded up they haven't came back i haven't seen one any goose up there since also one more thing that i would like to address those in sentence please it is that i found that it is a federal offense and so i am not sure if i should file for a class action lawsuit due to the fact that they have done this but i don't know who to address is it the county is it david taylor is it my line in pine so if you guys could help me with that it would take a lot of stress off my back because i don't want to go causing animosity with anybody you know what i mean i just want this to be addressed so that it no longer happens because this is castillo thank you for a time in hard work and i am here as a concern member of the community representing myself my family the earth and all the earthlings i do not have a voice to bring to you today we are where we are all aware of the poisons being used on our i know here in maui and the labels all verify hazardous to humans small animals and contamination near water i believe solutions are what we seek so that we no longer need to use these chemicals on our i know i propose that we take an inventory of the county equipment as such as the mower the weed eaters the stump grinders and any other equipment throughout the county that is used in the process of cleaning up our plant as well as an inventory of the employees that we have once we have this information i propose that we plan is scheduled to be made to take care of the county i myself would volunteer to help in this process i hope that it can be taken into account when the department organizes plans and efforts in the in its divisions and the related issues thank you very much my name is thank you thank you for your testify thank you ladies for being there and in the gallery anyone wishing to come forward to testify please do so seeing no one coming down members without objections oh no thank you very much and moving on to item number one which is i e m eleven parent two and this is pursuant to rule seven b of the rules of the council the committee intends to have an orientation workshop to be conducted by the department of public works and we show receive a presentation i believe and plans and efforts of its divisions or related issues no they're just made of action will be taken and i shelved turn the floor over then to department of public works at this time ons and constructs mostly new roadways and bridges etc and so those three operating divisions create a lot of work and are always looking for new ways to do work there's no opportunities that come along there's new regulations that come along and so we've had this opportunity the past to talk story with the community through some of those opportunities in the past the recent past we've spent a lot of time talking about emmas for  brand new permitting system that's replaces a twenty plus year old unsupported system is a major effort that's now getting under full steam and we could i could talk more about that but i will say that as we organization that we've been discussing in his crib ells committee but also helps to highlight you know that the processes that we go for go through and ones that we're looking to initiate in this coming budget session helpful to talk about how we currently plan for our various projects and so generally if you look at those diagrams we have two processes one for federal aid projects and one for county number one concern and also congestion mitigation because we we all get calls all the time we know where there is congestion and where there's places the county can assist in those areas and those are priorities so some of the examples of these various plans include the drainage master plans of which we have three or four at least throughout the county where i work system which ident has identified the condition of every road and what's needed in the various districts and what bridges need to be refurbished or replaced where the long range transportation plan which is a state produced product and generally capacity related projects we also get input from the highways division in the community during the budget meetings a new plan that we're looking to introduce for f y seventeen is a rockfall landslide plan and as you know recently in the budget committee we our can iraq fall project and we feel like we need to get out ahead of these issues i think the last two years of pretty good pretty good rains create an environment where we see more  and be able to prioritize those improvements so that's an example of something new that we would look to to develop so that we could move forward on on those types of logics so for capital county projects we use that planning process identify which projects are ready to go and we bring in the budget and generally folks approve them we also identify a six year plan so you can look out six years what other projects we're looking at and sort of the county side again looking at that bubble diagram it's pretty simple we have a very simple structure plans to use the county see ip process and then the gets more complicated and i thought it's worthwhile to go through that and we're going to look at how the process how it's been for years and how it's going to change with the m p o that will be different if we just went through the county see that's so looking at the federal aid process and you look at the we have the federal aid projects and first the state receives the federal funding and current and right now it's called the fast act unfortunately passed doesn't mean starting in this case fortunately the federal government passed a new plan that's for five year plan that actually increases the funding to the states but does set a very firm foundation that we know we can really plan for now million dollars a year something around there but that doesn't mean my county gets it all so they do need study periodical public participation during our process and then large chunks of monies are basically and county share of that hundred sixty million dollars has averaged about fourteen million dollars a year for the last few years going the next page will start at that receiving fourteen million dollars a year in the process before an m p o continues on so we've got fourteen million dollars a year the question is now what would we do well in a transportation improvement plan starts with a technical advisory committee attack which consists of our engineering division the planning department h d o t and they recommend the various prioritized projects most of that has come out of the long range transportation plan our i work for instance identifying what roads need to be worked on that are federal roads federally federal aid eligible roads so that committee then would submit to public participation in making this plan which is about a four year plan and then we would recommend a project list back to in the state at the state level and that's our tip the transportation improvement plan how we can spend those fourteen million dollars a year for the next four or five years from now county monies only so then we said that and we cross our fingers that they're going to approve it and you know what they approve it because they participate at the table with us and as long as we stay within that range of the fourteen million dollars or so there's no reason not to approve it once we have that s for your plan then we come to you folks with our annual budget requests you know provide it to the design funds or the construction match or even construction management funds so that's the pre m p o process  now going the next bottom half of the she talked about the process with the m p o and we see things in red letters those are the changes so again we get about fourteen million dollars a year hopefully it'll more into the fast the planning department and h d o t and they would recommend projects then to the policy board policy board again as more or less the same people with the inclusion of council members that's exactly what's been dot to the end we recommended not recommended but actually approved and then incorporated in the state process so no longer do we cross our fingers and hope each dot approves it because that final approval process happens with the policy board so once again as long as we stay within the funny constraints and then again will come back for the annual budget requests so we thought this was helpful now if ourselves well for you folks to see how it was happening before the m p o and how it's happening afterwards in the big changes really are we get to vote for making a final decision on the m p o policy board for our projects but for a judge projects on maui as long we stay within those funding constraints we basically get the final say and so there's x there's also some opportunities to receive some additional funding as we found out particularly in planning funds to help develop more studies that support projects coming in advance planning and i believe  our folks and d o t the bus folks have some potential of a lot of different types of funding available for replay some of their fleet etc so for this coming budget year our primary opportunity is in rock fall more and more challenges and we need to the best we can get out ahead of these you know before there's a major slippage or before the road has to be completely cause which will either isolates communities or makes community navigation that much more that's that's what i had for that subject you want to take questions other than ours we've one of the others are not as well if you're going to jump into another character and then we can yeah just if we have questions or things for the department this point with what he just spoke about goodman did you have something mine is very general statement but yeah thank you very much for the diagram it's makes things very simple to look at and understand this is  that go on i think in order to comply all those of course is a little more complicated more rows other interested parties so i think the challenges will have is making sure that we have  is getting up to speed number one making sure we have a quorum to make decisions and planning for the extra time it's going to take once we have the steps are or are to par for y plan it changes every almost every year we have certain projects that take longer for whatever reason to be a permeating our land acquisition issue there's other projects that we need to fast forward one example is  we was out there a little further in time but that road started tearing so quickly that we need to push it up bono to push it up other projects have to go out those types of dishes decisions happen currently within our process that's going to happen at have to happen in the m p o process so we'll need to be nimble and get to the decision making process for revision so i think if if if it is designed to somewhat pay more efficient but then again it it sounds like there's more components to this type of process how will you handle th you know deadlines or the expediency of the projects i mean that my biggest concern is having things have more delay it as it is as it is right now because we all know we we in the government don't work as fast as others but i just don't want to have it you know having more components more processes added to it where where and where you know the process is more delayed although it looks as though the decision making is up front it could take us longer to implement or go through the entire day the process is the m p o process designed to incorporate those type of urgency type situations where we your priority type situations like you said things change up and are at a rapid rate and we have to and those are good questions and i don't have the full answers unfortunately and i'm also new to the n p o process but we're going to need to be able to respond quickly or you know we certainly would lose the potential our office we try to we try to help engineering expedite projects wherever they may need help sometimes it's coming up here for additional funding or we had some lapsing funds for old highway which we appropriated sometimes facilitator and getting projects out and i think you can see by some of the the numbers here on the on this chart you see a couple things i mean the numbers bounce around these are calendar year so it was sometimes we ip that overlaps various years some years will be more heavy in design and you'll see two years later those was heavier construction number of those projects come through but the trick here is to just try to keep them all going some are much more easier than others obviously some are more difficult they take time but we're always trying to find ways to keep the projects moving i think the end pills could be key to make sure you know it holds up its end at times when you go into construction and when you go out for bid that also causes delays but you know we embrace the new m p o structure and i think it gives us a lot of flexibility and lot of  control over our local projects that involve also state state highways as well so you know with that i think having a good policy board and people in place who are willing to meet often and discuss things having an open mind i think that's going to be really key and you know we just welcome that opportunity good or more that we have might receive how does that work so the way it works is will will fill up the bucket with a number of projects and we have until we have certain da jews around may for most of our projects and then they'll be deadlines for d o t to approve them and then deadlines to go out to bid so that we meet the federal fiscal year so now we're dealing with  sure that the projects go out deal t also does what they call over their shoulder reviews where they come and they sit down with their staff and literally it's the idea looking over your shoulder to show us where you are where your plan is show us the land acquisition your soil studies that you've done show us exactly where you are and so that way they can see whether we're on track or not if they start to see or we see we should you know we're we are up front about it a lot of know and then we look at ok with this project not going to go forward maybe it's too close let's put in something else so we're constantly having those types of evaluations the over shoulder reviews i think are very beneficial because that way both agencies know exactly where they are and in that way we can make decisions together if we need to push a project out so it's a it's a constant  evaluation of where we are ok very good and then so this year i guess one of your priorities is this rock fall mitigation plan with that study is that where are you going to start first and then is there a dollar amount  bad a lot of rain or it's effects of the two thousand and six earthquake that are starting to show up or it's just you know the mountains a living thing it's moving right so you just have to deal with it we would like to get more out of it because all those are potential disasters that could really you know set those communities back so we want to and our safety issues you know forget the whole the area we've had rock fall there and i mean not as often but we cliffside because it's that's very very and question no she drives it every day so yeah not to forget that corner of our world too in your mitigation plan here and so we'll look forward to that coming up  early right after the purchase because we need to move a lot of material off the i could be landfill and we need a place to have a road materials and so we are the first tenants if you will and been using the area but we set up three areas i'm going to guess like almost like parking stall sized we used to round up and we used a product called of venger which is this the one state deal t is using and that's avenger and the weed products in that area where we are testing failed to the point where a month or two afterwards you could even tell it's been used it was just green and lush to even staff to do a second application make sure we were doing it correctly and we just didn't get much results at all and that you know contradicts for whatever reason we still don't know yet but state d o t has had some limited exactly what's going on and so we're going to continue to work together with them to find out exactly how they're mixing it how they're applying it where they're applying it and if  steve mentioned that the beyond pesticides group is potentially available would love to participate and learn some more because it's clearly there's there seems to be a large opportunity for a technology or product to meet this so so chair just a kind of an order of magnitude of where we where we are compared to d o t now deal t of course as all the state highways you know they maintain the shoulders of course we have all the county roadways are typically residential roads and some collector before they switched to avenger was using about one hundred thousand i thought about fifty but i got a steve sent me an e mail couple hours ago saying it's one hundred thousand dollars so they use about twenty they were using about twenty times more than we are  to switch to say avenger using the same rachael's to produce the same amount of gallons avenger for us would be about nine times more expensive actually when i haven't times about fifty five thousand dollars a year that's if it's as effective as around if i have to apply it more times it's going to be more costly etc that's just a cost perspective i'm not saying advocating one use or another but it's important aspect to look at and that's why i'm really glad we have a fiscal analysts and public works to put those numbers together work with our crews read the labels and figure it out so they've been changing their practices with steve rogers was telling me and mark morgan that you know they've changed a lot of things the way they mow how much they mow when they do eat lacking and and not that they are finding some success with their vendors we want to learn some more about it avengers is a product that  we don't spray typically along roadsides we do have certain applications that we do not saying we don't we have done that we do this haiku school is unfortunate instead but typically our roads are adjacent to homeowners who require the code to maintain not us so if the parcels fifteen acres or more we would maintain the joining parcels fifteen acres or more otherwise it's the homeowners responsibility and how that homeowner maintains is up to them so we don't have long stretches of road that we typically maintain we do have or make for maintenance operate operations we do are doing a lot more slurry she'll be doing crack ceilings the types of pavement preservation techniques you know make our roads certain flood control projects that are regulated by the army corps we come in they have annual inspections or they find something growing way up high in a concrete wall anything that has to be taken out it's not the kind of thing we can just simply weed whack our applications are a little different than deal t s and so if every application is a question ok what's the what's the safest way for the crew to the right thing for the environment is illegal and in which case everything we've been doing to date is is legal as authorized by e p a and d u h these to my knowledge we also asked for an evaluation of our practice is by the department of ag who does regula product is drawing so vendors language is exactly the same sense with the exception maybe one word spray versus spray solution as relates to any access by people or pets afterwards so for us we we try to be proactive we can see there is concern out there we want to look at available products that are on the marketplace our initial tests were not good doesn't mean we're not willing to test again and learn some more we want to work with t o t find more about how they're using it where they're using it where it's working and they they admit there's areas where it's not working but we also think this issue is beyond public works we're clearly not the only agency in the county that use of these products and so we have asked the ninth for recently to assist us because certainly part of water supply parks dmn police fire housing everybody has facilities right of some shape or form and some use in some may use i don't know so we think it's something that you know it's a bid beyond public works but we're certainly willing to roll up our sleeves on it because we're one of the more visible users of some sort of herbicide and clearly in for use of venture there's protocols to follow  certainly as relates to the public had access so you know as a policy issue and listening in this question today to me this is the type of thing that should be an item in a committee on the ministration level we can initiate and i can ask the night for it initiate some more analysis of it but you know the policy issue this is the type nine that should be in a committee because then we can have discussion and deliberation you know it's thoughtful and manage d when there's a lot of talk going around and internet and facebook and everything else it's almost impossible to get your arms around at least for me as a director of department and we're certainly should appointments let us know about it rather than hearing about oh there's going to be a lot of publicity coming out going to check into if something's illegal or not and that's one way to go they usually is a confrontational  way of going and that produces certain types of outcomes but i think our department for a long time has been very open to receiving information and to having discussion and we can do that here as a committee we can do  mean this is really the form but not to talk about where we are and there's no other way of going and we've seen the results of what happens in this community when that goes that way so we're here to help and look forward to working with the chair  and any of the members on this item because it her issues it is important and and we all want to do the right thing and we want to do what's you know is allowed by law we have to follow our regulators to write so that's the that's the hard thank you very much director and yeah don't you worry this will become the actual item so for the discussion shall be taken upon this particular subject matter thank you for that and members in the need for rogers yes from the state in regards to you mentioned public works use of round vs the states and the dollar amount associated hundred into four public works forty five thousand but there's also a part in regards to their adventure because they transition into avenger use which drop the cost to sixty five thousand dollars so there is a positive actually with them dropping down switching over and he also mentioned that he spoke to the company that makes that product and that company is creating a new formula that's going to bring the cost of avenger down  half the cost and the amount of person needs to use so i think that so far from where it's coming from the state looks promising and i know this is often a work in progress and we are happy to hear we're all working together and bringing everyone to the table to discuss how we can create best practices so just wanted to give you a little bit more update on that part and you mentioned that you spring and i understand it with our culverts or bridges or whatever if you have things undermining it versus the crack and now we are trees certain a garage of it of course you have to get rid of it so you do sprayed how do you is that occurring in our culvert our water you know collecting type of culverts and thereby you need to spray some type of poison in there to kill the plant  and they've made a lot of adjustments over the years to adjust things like the nozzle heads so they're more specific to hitting a particular target but there's no spray there certainly no plume and the which is also it's good for our employees as well so again it's very spot use or our numbers are declining as forty five hundred dollars are not forty five thousand our numbers are declining but we still have a need for some type of product i'm thrilled to plant whatever and then patch it there by you know stopping the regrowth of whatever impeded into that crowd so you know i mean i would think that's a to do right i mean you're going to perhaps the yeah you know the water that comes off the road would go in there so i mean unless they put a lot of effort nervous side into it they can't get it to go out so even the best patches find ways of things can assist you in you know creating this integrated pest management system of some kind or maybe just thoughts at this point but you know that's what i'd like to identified you know a process we and again we've asked is going to be taken a more holistic look at it from all the departments i'd say of anything i mean there's an opportunity to you know find some effort more a county wide basis but until we can identify you know a process or a change of processes and products that work for our applications which are similar but slightly different  t's we're not quite ready to ask for that yet ok art yes i think what we also need to do is some create some goals for ourself and that will help us to develop performance measures that  can also help us create a budget so i think by learning more about the integrated pest management are creating an integrated pest management program developing the goals seeing where we're at and where we want to be at that's how we're going to get to creating a budget for some sort of alternative oh we're very good and you folks are open to looking into that ok excellent very good thank you yes mr wade thank you dear mr good what is the number of miles of state highway versus the number of miles out of county roads just in rough terms there have a chair mr white i think we have about a thousand lane miles so say there's five hundred miles roughly if you have two lanes she got i guess i'd be a thousand miles of shoulder i think my recollection of  the chair i think it's i think the department should be congratulated because it sounds based on that if the state is using one hundred thousand dollars worth of herbicide on roughly four hundred miles of of shoulder versus the counties using only four of the forty five hundred on close to a thousand miles of of shoulder it shows that we're can bridge so at this time i'll turn the floor over to the department once again for discussion over this i thank you chair rowenna day deputy director of public works and i have some photos that i wanted to share with the committee so if i could provide you with that as  so thank you chair for bringing this as a gender item for today's meeting this is been an issue that our department has been dealing with for a number of years know even prior to when  entered into our office we have some history on the project our history on the the discussion and have seen communication between the state and the county going back to i think nineteen eighty five some cases about this road and the bridge so before you is are some photos the first page is just the photo that i got off of google maps of the  bridge itself and then if you turn to the next page this is a map that was provided to me by state department of land and natural resources in the district staff  they put together this map using g i s and aerial photography so just to orient you as to where the bridge is located there is a yellow circle on the map you can't see it very clearly but the a little line is stream and you have that yellow circle there are parallel lines there that indicate the alignment of a roadway that passes through the parcels so what i want to do is start where it says school lot so if you head over to the the right side of the page there is a triangular log labeled school lot and across from it is  the church our responsibility and this is documented documented in an email back in two thousand and ten from our highways district our highways division chief our responsibility actually ends at the stop sign on l road where the old school lot used to be the stop sign or actually now i don't think there is a stop sign but in one direction it goes toward the bridge and the landing and in another direction it parallels on a highway so if you see that there's a set of parallel lines that that head further to the right that is that road that's parallel to on a highway  jurisdiction actually ends at that intersection there a portion of the road traverses onto private or private property and if you follow along past the church there's  appears in private property that you know my portion and then the road also follow as follows along toward another private property labeled miller and then ends up at the state owned landing area and you can see that portion next to the ocean we have records as to the repairs of the bridge that were done in one thousand nine hundred eight by the department of public works using operational funds and then it was it's our understanding that the work was never considered considered a capital improvement project that this was just something that the department wanted to assist with and shortly after that there were discussions with staff and the community and the state as to whose responsibility it was at the time didn't have any records as to ownership or title as well and there had been no other records s to any title or documentation that the county did create the bridge or construct the bridge there are anecdotal reports from members out in the community that i did the work on the bridge and then others said that county also helped out with the bridge but there's nothing formal in our in our records that state that so since one thousand nine hundred eighty there had been no additional work done in the bridge with exception to changes on the site barriers and some of the decks what started all of this was that there were requests made by the community to have guard rails fixed on the state property the guard rails are in an area that that's exposed to a lot of the salt air so with that you have a lot of the teary aeration and resting so requests are made to the state and the county agencies however ownership of the road in whose responsibility it was to maintain the guardrails had always been disputed in two thousand and eleven arhaan a district staff suggested to have an engine near and spec the existing conditions and the safeness of the bridge a bridge conduction and a bridge inspection was conducted in september two thousand and eleven and it indicated that the bridge was in fair condition our department went ahead and got a structural engineer to come to know he could to inspect the bridge inspection report made a number of recommendations we had both short term and long term recommendations one of which was to post a maximum pulls the sign specifying the maximum weight that could be  it could be handled by the bridge and supports the vehicle weight limits at the ends of the bridge inspection report also recommended temporary shoring and bracing of the elements of the bridge until it could be replaced with an upgrade of major structural elements the long term repair options would be to replace the existing bridge with a new bridge that meet current acceptable bridge design standards shortly after the report came out public works highways  did repeat replace some wood in temperatures and this is in accordance with past practice staff again would usually help out or when they could weight limit signs were also place that the end of the bridge and then in early the early part of two thousand and twelve our engineering division did go out to do research and receive cost estimates for the installation of an acronym metal bridge we thought you know in the meantime let's try to see if there are all other alternatives to rebuilding this bridge why don't we use one of the existing temporary bridges that we have stored in  sol we sought estimates from a contractor the price of the installation alone was estimated at seven hundred ninety eight thousand dollars that's just the estimate for the  installation what was and what was not included were the costs for the removal of the existing bridge any modifications or upgrades to the existing bridge structure and and permitting requirements the actual cost me call up or it could go slightly relative to the final design and any other changes or additional work that might need to be constructed so we did some temporary short term fixes to the bridge we posted signs but then in september of two thousand and fourteen we see the report from a resident saying that they witnessed the contractor damaging the old bridge with their truck  no name was left it was an anonymous tip our highways district staff investigated the following day and saw that there was some plywood that were placed on the bridge to stabilize the deck there were also indications of rotted out wood and staff recommended that the bridge be closed now not knowing whose responsibility the bridge was we convened the meeting with our corporation council representatives from department of land and natural resources our engineering and highway staff and we also had one staff member from the office the mayor's office meet with us on the following day on september twenty fifth at that meeting all parties agreed to restricting vehicular access over the bridge and the follow up call was made to mark fought of e m i that same day e m i supported the restriction restriction of vehicles over the bridge pedestrian access however it was still made available we then went forward and got a title report and had that ordered staff also went ahead to order another structural assessment and the assessment determined that the existing timber bridge didn't have any sufficient capacity to support vehicle loads but it could still be used for light pedestrian traffic the report recommended that any repairs should include a seismic retrofit of the timber bridge to meet current coalwood and that we consider a bridge replacement instead of repairing the existing bridge in december of that same year two thousand and fourteen the title report was concluded and the title report indicated that there was no evidence of title to the government of hawaii and that the road passed along portions of parcels thirteen nineteen  five thirty five and forty three which means that the road traverses onto private property it was said so in the title report the title part report was also shared with i so that they they were aware that we had gone gone out and sought a title search and since then without any funding or clear ownership  department has held off in any and additional improvements until we receive guidance from this body so at this time we haven't done any additional work the bridge is still closed off to vehicular traffic but we are just the waiting some guidance as to how to proceed and that's that's the report that i have to thank you deputy director and director you had anything to add no ok very good river and that's supposed to be the wall that was supposed to be the where the road was but somehow they went and made it a road in those days nobody really paid attention it was a little bit foolish for roots of this put it over there do we have other situations and our county where we are taking responsibility for bridges that are essentially built on private property and have private property both upstream downstream of the bridge not the stream but what is the least access need for the state land that the road ends on is that frequented by the state or not according to the state chair they don't really have maintenance and they haven't been sending maintenance crews to the site and in our very little is what i'm hearing from the state it's not a park and it's also our understanding and we're not quite sure according to state deal and are they said there might be just a few squatters in the area but and then there is one property owner who has property next to the state land but that property is undeveloped and considered conservation but as far as usage i believe the community yeah the community uses it for gathering and recreational  fishing but i think maybe we can get a better understanding talking than the state deal and i do have a sense of how far it is from the bridge to the state parcel  miller resident or the miller property against that property doesn't have any structures on it it's conservation that are there but the structures on either the e m i lives according to  structures however there may be some people just squatting on the land and creating on tents and has a structure that i can see there but his access is prior to the bridge right ye i think that that may be why it's the use and repair this is somewhat of a challenge because if there's no no one living below the bridge i don't know i can't tell from this map how far the what the distance but doesn't look like it's too much of a walk to get to the beach from the bow beside the bridge chair and me it is it's a steep incline as you go down someone who has difficulty walking be have a challenging time accessing the area because it is a steep incline dahlan but as far as vehicular traffic  barrier or something to completely cut off vehicular but not a motorcycle that's allowed chair the it's only for types of vehicles over the bridge so that the weight of those also would be a can safety yes so i guess there's no fish like that miller i guess doesn't have the do wn there there's no official actual attendance or owners and so it's the squatters or whatever people who actually technically don't have own the land there that are living and traversing the bridge and things and of course the residents who want to go down and do their gathering rights and what have you i mean there's not a whole lot of go on are going in he goes so that is kind of a nice area to go and  picnic if you want go hang out in and just gather in the ocean and everything is right there it's beautiful so you know i can see why just because there's no one living there that axis you know ought to be there so i guess my officially are the caretakers of this or do we not want to go down that road are we trying to get buy in from all the different entities to help assist in you know fixing this or i don't know where where's this department administration wanted to go at this that's the that's actually the kind of guidance that we wanted from the committee again our jurisdiction or according  to highways division it stops at that intersection prior to and you know a long time ago of the department did they would always go out and help as much as they could and that's very indicative of a lot of our rural communities they like to try to help as much as possible but you know given the way things are today and liability you know of  course costs associated with the maintenance of our infrastructure staff has you know they their priorities are more on what are the areas that we maintain that we have record of ownership but you know we we do want to know what the committee would be interested in and you know that discussion with you as well so do you guys and you folks find and i know we're not all expert bridge people but is that to the point of no return or an easy just totally be yanked out and tiredly new one put in or is there a way to kind of beef it up a little more to make it again safer passage are there do we have options in that aspect yes tear the two thousand and fourteen report structure structural assessment report that we received recommended that the bridge not be repaired that it be taken out and a new bridge be installed and constructed ok and that point did you folks even venture to try and price price that out and get of kind of ballpark figure of what that would cost yes chair the the price of the installation of an acro bridge and you know one of those temporary permitting regulatory requirements by the state or federal agencies and any other additional additional work they could get an entirely somewhat new i mean i guess that's just considered temporary though or it would end up being a sort of permanent structure that would be a permanent structure so that for seven ninety eight for seven hundred ninety eight it would just just so i get a kind of an idea but i guess if mr carroll was to occur if you don't mind to give the question to you what do you foresee or you're hearing from your community too you know i mean would your you personally i guess because we're the ones here are going to have to kind of work it out on the floor during budget if this is like kind of a dollar amount to put in new  new bridge or are you in favor of us picking up the tab on this or are you wanting to go and get the other you know associated landowners involved to what we need  some backwoods plays are a here front and center and in main drag a town we want to address this i mean personally i'd like to see this taken care of but i know we have other issues as an ownership and all that so that's just my kind of thought at this point to give you folks that guidance and thinking and then you heard mr carroll's thoughts and members and if anyone else wanted to chime in in regards to this issue at this time but the floor is open otherwise i think we've discussed the two items that i set forth today on the agenda and if there's no further discussion oh yes mr deputy director so just to clarify  to i mean do you need to start speaking to other owners and again i'm not sure you know we need to obviously talk with corporation counsel in their liability i mean if we take over  and it's not truly hours per say where does that leave us we want to make sure we you know tackle that issue and do we need to have like a swapping herbs of some sort or you know we're going to take care of this issue it's your land but here the county is going to step up to take it so why don't you just deed it over to us so we're free and clear and everything's you know copacetic on paper yes or something i don't know i don't know how to work on those details but whatever we can take the steps to heading towards that end result of getting this redone and safe because visitors to you know we're not just talking a couple people who like to freak in the area kind of thing but there's visitors that go on down there and you know i was there with actually a workshop and sort of a class where we went down to visit a who was and different and gather eans and what's on the stream and what's in the forest and what's growing on the land what's in the ocean so it's also a cultural experience in teaching and you need to get down there in a safe manner so i'm very much in support that we do something to improve the area so loop if you won't be having a representative there and also vice a versa is there a message that you would like us to share i guess at the community if the questions arise i guess like what is our status as county in helping protect their area we've done some studies and this will cost estimates and you know the funding we can really move forward in and land acquisition ok ok very good thank you very much directors and at this point members without furthe discussion we've completed our agenda and this meeting is