morning your honor its name please the court i'm jamie ferrara they represented us for loretta welch many issues were raised in this case however the one that i think is most important for oral argument would be the miranda issue and that's the one that i'm prepared to argue agents were coming to her house she was originally told that the agents were coming to check some records regarding gun transactions something that they had done in the past they did not mention that they were coming to question her or that they were going to execute a search warrant when they arrived however they said we are here in it to execute a search warrant and they said there were a group of agents down the street who were prepared to clear the house and they entered the house with their weapons drawn mrs welch was standing outside basically with two agents as several other agents anywhere from six to ten i believe entered the house with weapons drawn to clear the house in your view and what point was miranda triggered i believe that my and triggered the instant that mrs welch was brought into the house and confined into the kitchen and what was the circumstances under which she was brought into the house was she ordered into the house and prying into the house or how did that kind of bounce i believe at that time what happened was the agent said we're going to search your home you can leave or if you stay you have to stay in one confined area and you may not move around the house really was that how does that differ from a interview in a police station where someone is told that we're going to do the interview in the interrogation room but you can leave whenever you want well i think the facts differ in the sense that mrs welch was in her own home she was told she could not wonder about the house really and i understand that michigan versus summers does say that you can detain somebody for the purposes of searching a house however in the dispute about the destruction of evidence and that is understandable however went beyond michigan vs summer and this court in kim specifically stated that when you go beyond a terry take questioning that they believe that michigan versus summers would then have warranted miranda warnings at that she have the option of leaving the house she did have the option initially and i believe that as the interrogation went on that she felt that she could not leave and that any reasonable person in that position what it felt that they could not leave and that they were subjected to these into these questions a very strong interrogation that went on for over two hours so the question then becomes was her feeling objective that you reasonable when they gave her these options he says you can leave or if you choose this way because we are searching the entire house are asking you to stay in one place now on i'm through those circumstances how can you say that she was under total constraint in order to  her trigger miranda well your honor i think that as the questioning went on as it took two hours as the agents took over her home in created a police state especially in her that is what happened in this is welch's home they did not tell her that she was if you do say we're going to question you and we're going to question you extensively for over two hours and we're not going to tell you that you can have an attorney present and we're not going to tell you that that miranda was not required simply because the interview occurred in the house and even though he was a suspect of attacks in this season i you know i you know and i'm not sure i'm not familiar with that case however  i do think that this case is a lot like him which your court just decided a little over a year and now walking into a lot the door on her rights so she wasn't free to leave they did what they told her she c please and they told eric and agents testified that they were positioned so that she could go at any time however the quote said that a reasonable person would not have thought that they could leave and that this was a situation that person would not have felt free to leave so is it a legal test or factual just because obviously you've got adverse factual findings from the district court on the most from just the press that we then i guess must find clearly erroneous in order to the government put in the briefs and and i don't think that i'm saying anything in my brief that the district court did not hear what so i think it just records that you're not i think the district courts that legal significance of the facts that we correct court and she was not isolated from anybody she was told that she was free to make telephone calls and in fact during the interview did telephone her husband so certainly she did not suffer the same type of  afterwards it became that she was not only restricted to the kitchen but she could have it her own mind felt that she was totally restrict did you sense that was five like you playing up to your honor's almost as welch was in her kitchen being questioned by the agents one a t f agent told her that she could be indicted for this that he didn't believe her  story he accused her of trying to protect her son who was also a suspect in this case and he told her that it would cost a lot of money for her to defend herself in this case and i think those are very important in terms of whether or not or when it changed and the fact that she felt she couldn't leave she was isolated the only person allowed to enter the home was her husband and he was coming just open up a gun safe that the agents wanted to inspect there was psychological coercion that happened in that kitchen going on she had been questioned extensively the year before and there had been several record checks of the records for this now defunct business during that year so she did know she was under investigation and she knew that there was a criminal investigation and there was a very it's quite a bit in the press in san diego about where these guns were found and what they had been suspected of being used for not arguing that we returned to the old days the focus of the investigation now i just very amused the supreme person feel that they were under suspicion and could not leave or thank you