well there's two parts but the first part i was thinking of was in that half self they talk about a hierarchical structure of five different five different areas and in that description doesn't that doesn't this office use you ralph so you're on of the the the actual text here doesn't say anything about it it only says that the disclosure that the portion relied on by the board means that there is that there are several links but are less going to support also relied on the first sentence in the paragraph where it says including  links maybe finding a hierarchical format and then the paragraph ends with a listing of what that hierarchical format would be topics such as medical oncology mono mix cetera so made it look like to me the board read this reference and made a finding those too the board understood this passage and it where class codes and hyperlinks so your honor i think that the board did not make a finding that the annotation links hurrell would have all come from the same database the board's decisions actually silent on that doesn't say that those that those links are all stored and in the database they links are are multiple links stored in a database such that a matching linkable character string has multiple class codes the paragraph right before the the section cited by  indicator than a hyperlink added after the users request an annotation so that means that even if there is a word that has multiple links it doesn't mean they came from the a database such that used to reflect the hierarchical cross reference list in order of increasing specificity and he said yes a system like that could possibly be built so the only way that the board could find radiation treatment of melanoma which is which is a kind of cancer and that's medical there's nothing in this that says that there is some word let's call it x ray x ray can be a kind of of radiation that's used in treatments that treats melanoma which is which is kind of cancer but it doesn't say the x ray has x ray or any other word has multiple class codes associated with that word just because there's a hierarchy doesn't mean that there's multiple things at each level of the hierarchy you know but it's still say the multiple things of each level of a hierarchy  doesn't read on the pad he was asked whether or not this this paragraph inherently means what he thought it meant initially and he had to admit that you could build the system so talked about building a system and the system has a hierarchy of five levels of increasing specificity at no point does it say that there's multiple class  words never say there's any linkable character string here that has multiple class codes you know but he's also saying common sense would cause you not to do that he's saying that he wouldn't the way no reason to build a system like that in the what he's saying is that if you read and using common sense you would do with the pattern planes so your i don't think that he's saying that at all because that the common sense factor is cut again text doesn't mean what he thought it meant initially he doesn't say i and these pages that you've cited just we've been looking at this question the answer about the system yes  keeping the testimony that is that it's here at eighty one ninety eight where he says i think the implication of an hof is that he would present multiple destination addresses it with their own relevance index and order them based on relevance and x he doesn't say that those those linkable character strings are wrist received from the same database he also knows he also  so he says he can't imagine why you want to insert the word medical without a link to the word medical and such in such an annotation so he says there being one relevance indicator for address he what we're what we're finding is that he says we see that much that it would have been common sense to do this well if that's the case your honor that it said that it segues us over to the commercial success if that was the common sense if it if it was obvious to do it then people would have done it before and didn't and it wasn't until this invention came along that you were able to do things like provide context sensitive links to information by utilizing these major class what what's missing from van hoff is any indication that you wouldn't be able to say in this context apple means a fruit versus a computer company or in the context of the patent that new york relates a city for a sports team and the only way to do that is with class tickets and you don't in the context of what what a fan hof is describing this hierarchy you don't need to distinguish between so that's the that's the problem they're trying to read into something words that don't exist in the presence of what i think is their argument that they're it says including the hypertext links but the links plural doesn't teach you that all the links are coming from the database such that there would inherently be multiple class code in fact the very sentence before this shows us that  shows you that there could already have been links in the reference so there's already a link that to apple you find that one of the words you're supposed to protect says apple they add a second one now there are multiple links but that doesn't mean there was  the reality is your honour's that there is no substantial evidence that provides the basis for the keep for the feature to have said that this section reverse the operation of anthony there are multiple words which may be linked to a topic of jupiter's moon and you can do moons of jupiter which goes to the text or jupiter's moon and goes to the context of an awful whole this is the way we read it now one might argue the next sentence says link and there's an issue there and if there is an issue it's a fact issue in the word made as finding not just on those two sentences but damn off as a whole and remembering the level of skill in the are which of course is the way the work references read it is a high level it's a bachelor's and i think computer science or engineering and several years of graduate experience the real life experience which is at the graduate side during the early p h d there is also the knowledge in the art that dr holman testified about there's databases there's one to many and many to one these are all common known techniques and that is the context in which grandpa is read and it's on rebutted in fact the motivation to combine side we cite the portion where the board found that everything in the pattern that it was looking at was a known technique being applied with a predictable result and that is underpass are enough before you get the motivation to combine but in it actually says links that's plural and the argument is well that's that's the annotation but that's not necessarily in the database and if it's not in the database where in the world is it coming from because there is nothing in van off to give you any place for it to come from  and on top of that there's substantial evidence supporting the board's finding not the least of which is factor hellman talking about databases and how these would be stored in the databases and there would be multiple eight multiple places in the database in connection with the purported would read it i guess i would close with the commercial success notion which is simply that we first of all ivan came into existence ten years after this patent so even if they were successful i don't know what would me but we don't know what the revenues says is medical oncology melanoma those are descriptive and the concern was that that argument would be made and so anthony was brought in because anthony has an explicit disclosure that that topic name could be n issue i think damp off does in fact anticipate but that was not presented in the in that way it was a combination with a thank you thank you evidence was not presented about revenue revenues not the only mechanism by which one can show commercial success if you can show adoption by a large numbers of people and it's exactly what what or pointed not only to the really the petitioner's own website but it pointed to the fact that they they themselves say that the important part is to provide the relevant opportunities which are what occurs by using the classical as we were discussing earlier and in fact your honor the result of this is that the there was a substantial adoption of the technology by byte users of the vibrant system now that having been said there in addition the technology is the technology there likely to pay attention to ads relevant to what they're reading and so dr mayer patel describes the fact that it is the context that you can change you can use to change the links whether that provides the relevan the doctor dr homans declaration should have been afforded any or little weight dr home and didn't describe in his in his declaration what the standard was that he used in providing  as a result your the board could not have relied on dr hellman's testimony as to what certain things meant or what his conclusions were without knowing what the level was that he was applying for the standard if he was only applying substantial evidence then he's not actually saying that by preponderance of the evidence he found something to be true so as a result dr holland's decoration should have been  excluded just shown you look like you're skeptical i don't have a question ok so the the additional comment that i would