here waiting to testify thank you members there is no request for testimony on today's agenda so at this time with no objections we show close public testimony for today's meeting no i don't think you members from our director of parks and recreation and was transmitted a proposed resolution today for your information members at the appropriate time the staff will assist us we show we are posing the revised resolution to secure some courts but this was about five six years ago when these monies were supposed to come into the department the tennis courts were built about five or six years ago already and those are the three extension courts over were small we that the department had already built reimbursement to those construction costs could refund the original funding source of the tennis courts i believe the cost of the construction was larger than four hundred sixty eight thousand dollars so this is just a partial partial refunding that was a requirement of their estimate permit value between the developer or the owner of the timeshare and the department of parks and recreation and the numbers before you today is the number that they agreed to at during that during that negotiation process so it wasn't actually being asked to receive today thank you so mr day after to negotiation way to deal with the money then i'm sorry then we collect the money after the negotiated negotiation only occur only completed fairly recently  i can't tell you precisely and when i think with the last few months is when they push ation when it was completed and how long has the court's been constructed i can't speak to any existing courts well it's  you chair and thank you departments for being here this morning i share the same question that these courts have been built out already and now we're only now receiving the money do you know and this is a mandated thing i mean the one we're as is the desire to but that desire is actually a mandate to contribute to us which is been a long overdue six years so my question is the money that we and the so they have existing three and personal five is actually income on a poly at the site of where the time sure is is high it's time it's consummate that's correct and so was courts there and i guess during that negotiation period it was all three placement would be up at the city we had the room for it at the time so and last follow up chair and because they were public for public use and now the current the hyatt tennis courts are only for a time share property owners so  de the i believe the original tennis courts at the hyatt were not necessarily for public use but the condition didn't require that the funds be replaced for public or private use but it thank you mr chair i guess this might even be for mister condition sixty seven doesn't give a the value it just says contribute the value of the three eliminated courts  and if the value of the courts is whatever the the actual price was shouldn't that be what they should be contributing believe that's needed they just recently came to agreement on the value just recently within a month or two i believe they said of their timeshare and there were a number of outstanding conditions they still need to address so this they got pushed to actually coming to a conclusion recently working with the parks department as far as the value where it came from but that didn't come from our director's office it was already set in place but i got to my desk where were the value was created i couldn't tell you what it was not from our current administration or the parks department that it was that they give it to us during that discussion of the condition of some of the courts that actually were not being used at the time came up and funding was appropriated to rehabilitate those old out as far as those three other courts so that is currently under construction right now the three border courts per se are actually all torn up right now and they should be completed the next month so it's the three chords surrounding the dream court  thank you for bringing up the subject matter also kilani and because this community has waited an awful long bang and nothing has been you know and they still want to give us a dream each park but i won't go into that because i think  that's the conversation we're having right now it takes a long time and the problem is that year comes up is the council seems to get it behind the eight ball everything you know it's already been agreed upon and we've got to try to fix it i would like to see these agreements and we were given the after effect agreement and i think it's totally unfair an agreement should be reached before us before it's agreed upon with the department but that's another maybe public understands and if i may ask this question which are what the stream of courts across the so i'm ok with that but i sure like to know what three new courts cost us as far as sar putting them up and we're small we i think the public should know how much more money we have to come even if it's park assessment i don't know what what fun it comes out of it any questions misplaced questions just a quick question and thank you with it and i'm glad we are at this point where we are finally going to see some money i am just curious we talked about how this price was determined what they're going to give us i don't remember and i probably could use some help from get american consul this price does it include and when this happens in these things get delayed and there on our side nor most generally speaking sometimes it's also problematic when we collect these types of things too soon because if the developer decides not to go forward with the project we're then faced with the problem of reimbursing the money if they never go forward with it you know they don't create the requirement therefore we typically give back the money so it's a double edged sword there also we don't zone them too i think that tira beat me to my next question which is you know it sounds like we lose either way so i'm just curious i mean you know i'm so tired after being here as long as i have been hearing people complain about how untimely we are in in my little waning years here i mean i'm trying to figure out how we can alleviate some of that because it's the coming complaint everything takes too long and so that's my comment i do let's take the money and run you know it's get the check but i sure wish that there were a way to somehow make things happen faster thank you thank you i'm trying to recall there was an eight hundred thousand dollar amount we all were discussed you know i think a couple budgets ago in reference to tennis courts in law you know we have the whole tennis league come in full force to testify on behalf and i believe it was resurfacing of three or four courts up there i think it was just resurfacing not so much total build up from the bottom up but it was a hundred and that was just for resurfacing so that's a nice you appear to be headed in is to you asked if anybody had a question with the amount i kind of do you know i don't understand mr comment on the condition that it is for the the value of the courts that were there and i just was wondering how we could deal with that situation by not approving thank you thank you recommend the following i believe we have received the stuff and i have received enough questions from members of this committee that it's appropriate for us to and get those responses to the question this presented to cheer pray to make any final determination so i'm going to defer this i had to send those communications out for response and upon receiving those responses back schedule another comedian meeting for a final decision maker is there any concerns or questions to the chair how do we plan to move forward on this one you cover meant employees association bargaining units two three and four we are in receipt of a communication fifteen to us one forty one or from the ma fiscal years two thousand and sixteen and seventeen and accompany communication fifteen to us one forty two for the mare we have another proposed resolution for unit three months supervisory have fifteen dish one forty three from amir and this is a proposed resolution for a non supervisory white collar employees excluding bargaining unit three supervisory white mayor transmitted these proposed resolutions related to the cost items for these bargain units and as you're aware the resolution needs to be approved by council for these cost compared to what is being presented to this committee this morning over i'm not sure what your question is what did we do on the table so we can talk about it since negotiations is all right i'm trying to figure out what was the employer's represents union standby in case any emergencies happen during the evening time previously the way that the differential was applied was for example if an employee ended work on it be three thirty pm and resume work the following the let's say at seven o'clock a m the person would get twenty would receive twenty five percent of the person's daily rate if that employee was put on standby from three thirty one in the afternoon when he stepped out of work until the person stepped into work the following day with this new proposal what is important is that work calendar day so the person would receive if again put on standby by the supervisor twenty five percent of their persons daily rate from three thirty one in the afternoon to midnight going to know the twenty five percent from midnight to  when the person would start work in the morning day that's correct that's the maximum that they can because we recognize that some employees me you know may be called out for example if the employee were to be put on standby at three thirty one right after the employees leaves work gets called back at eight o'clock for an emergency and then work still let's say nine o'clock and then goes back out on standby because home and staff we put on standby standby increased costs an employer mortal being what you just told us why did we agree to this i mean you know i mean this is again i thought we were in this mode of trying to keep on in this jurisdictions that have different operations different sides operations you know for example maybe the county of maui has relied on standby as a way important to one jurisdiction it is not important maybe as important as the jurisdiction so negotiations is complex in that in that we were not is written you know we're just one vote in the process so we if we even though we may not like the idea or the issue you know we're young we're just one vote in what's going on here at the table with you folks and so again you just said one vote saw no matter what concerns we have no matter if we don't like this we cannot s the all the rest see yes i one vote doesn't make a difference or has to be unanimous as far as of all is concerned that character the way that the  to the union thank you i think the public knew that but i just wanted to hear them hear it again that we are just one of eight votes correct and so if we vote no it doesn't make a difference if all the other seven votes here or if all  particular provision would not or would go over to the union with maybe two separate ideas the union of course would not know what to do with that if we were to go to arbitration which each can  proceed to if we do not agree on the terms of the proposal i think we would be in a disadvantage in that we would go into arbitration with two positions before the arbitrator the union would be unified in their then have to decide you know looking at the employer's side having two positions you know which way he's going to go with that so we have done that in the past where we have what you call that's my question because i think the issue of discrimination getting put on standby over midnight they're getting two portions we're just getting one portion so it's that was their their i guess their point that they wanted to at least maui county behalf when you know one provisions were put forth one provisions were adopted or were passed over during mediation again same issue cost is  i think we can negotiate you know as we've done in the past supplemental agreements that would you know provide for other benefits or differentials but this was part of the master contract  so you know we did not request an opt out from the mouth for this provision in the master contract ok did you ask for any supplemental agreements that would reduce the exposure to this and by providing something  that it's it's our department's option not to place people on standby is that correct correct the number of people that are on standby the levels of poise that are on standby and and just stand by yes that's a management decision ok because you know we know tells operate in a twenty four hour basis as well and and more than twenty years i don't remember anyone i don't have we don't you stand by but i don't remember anyone ever saying they can't they won't come in when called when something comes up at the hotel we make calls and people come in so i guess the second question is since we have the option of whether or not to place people on standby  is it possible for us to vote yes on all the other provisions but just not fund the standby i guess that's a question for mr or yo you need to think about it yes but let me clarify the question so you just wouldn't appropriate money for that cost all right ok let me ponder that thank you i don't know whether this is i mean this is this is not part of the resolution but i guess it is it's an attachment it's an attachment so does that mean we have to this is an all or nothing like a budget amendment  concern about this standby time myself and in the issues in the items then basically asked the question is why do we need people on standby can't we just put them on call because they would do callbacks that the departments have available staff that standby it's there not just you know subject to being called back and different things that they have to answer their phone immediately when it rings they have to they can't be enjoying they can't be going to a party they can't be doing anything like that other than like a five minute shower is basically the only time they can be incapacitated that moment you know they can't be drinking they can't be doing anything else other than just waiting for a call so it does restrict their their own personal freedoms basically so the compensation for that is something that's reasonable and reasonable is is this calendar day how they get you know twenty five percent for a few hours and twenty five percent for another few hours so we're trying to see if there's a different management way to get around that but basically it is a very difficult process not to have people on standby if you know the council did restrict the nominees shall be paid for standby then you know they would have to i mean just change operations and if something breaks and nobody wants to answer their phone then you know things may not be repaired so that's a big risk that we might take you know if if a water main breaks we've got to have people that are trained with the rate equipment they can you know operate it and i understand that there's no question that need i'm just concerned about the cost and the fact that in a private company generally people are going to come in and take care of it and i think our county employees would too or maybe some that would say they'll put me on standby meant answering my phone i'm not doing it and i'm not doing anything but i think you would find that people would respond and you know i don't have a problem with the other elements of this because they're in line with what was given to other other bargaining units i still feel that it's a little high compared to what's going on in the private sector but it's consistent with what's going on in the other county departments but this is one of those items likes right for a recall that i feel is just an overreach and a unnecessary added cost for no increase in service i'm not sure how much we can discuss grievance that was filed against the company believe it was the wide for this standby issue from the union and the challenges that we had been because of that and because you know we this is a major cause specially for you know one unit to this is a minor cost issue for you know one it's a major cost issue so it was something that we tried not to you know our interpretation of it was different i think that's why the language got clarified in a unit to contract to  say that it's a calendar day versus just the day so that there would be a determination well the midnight was the end of that calendar day because what we said on a day is still less than twenty four hours right so we wanted to say water systems but it was there any kind of discussion as to you know is it just right across blanket everyone in this unit  you know for the water department the have to have they have you know very widespread geographic locations and so they need to have a team you know in different areas to be able to respond quickly to water issues of the treatment plant  mr miller can correct me if i'm wrong but that's my understanding of what unit two is so there's actually a lot less people in unit two than in you know use of our resources the entities i'm assuming the city and county apparently doesn't sound like they don't use them by and maybe even the state doesn't use down by is that so there they are able to address any kind of emergencies or make her after their normal work hours so that's that's five of the eight votes who don't have standby would have say in that how in the heck d consider you know one of the considerations and we looked at is whether we should have a night crew in some of these departments and again any change to the current practice is going to require at least consultation analysis as to whether it would be cheaper to have a night shift as opposed to the stand by system doesn't necessitate a twenty four hour crew and the yes we could have them doing other work during those times but you get more complaints  to waiver for all of this matter to committee and so it looks like the appropriations are for physical years twenty fifteen to sixteen and then twenty sixteen seventeen so or you're needing some of this additional funding now before june thirtieth is that what why your request to around the mid part of july but the other jurisdictions either don't have a particular or they have a shorter period so for them it's it would be critical that the have some indication whether implemented of course if it's a large jurisdiction like the state you know may need to begin the process at least maybe they would need to push the button so a rejection by this so chair thank you very much thank you thank you very much chair and before luncheon to my remarks one acknowledge a conflict because i'm very familiar with this stand boy issue having a husband i look at this in a very interesting way because i look at it from a fiscally responsible point which is what we're doing and the most a looking at it as the person who receive individual who gets this and i will agree with what budget director buzz discussed about the idea of being available regardless of whether or not the phone is ringing you must be available and if we if my son is on standby and we want to go to the high now for breakfast or burn time father's day he can't go because he's got to be in the district in case he gets called he's got to respond very quickly and so there is in my mind some reason for compensating people for that but again looking at it from a fiscally responsible state you know we keep adding more and more costs to the cost of having employees in the county and yet we keep saying we have to control costs i don't know that there's a meeting of the mind to the reality of all this people don't want to pay for anything more we want all these services and we want to compensate people feared to into does not make six it makes four and this money has got to come from someplace i don't have a problem with paying it but i do have a problem we how do you how we decide how much to pay and i really feel that as the peers we're not given fair consideration you know we're taught everybody agreed to no you have to pay this that's wrong because we're the ones that are held responsible by the public for what we want them to pay for i think we we need to do something at the state level and as counties we need to get together and have a meeting of the minds about this it's just getting out of control and it's do we be fear and i don't think that employees are the problem i think it's the process and i really support member chair whites you know recommendation that i don't like this is not comfortable this goes on every time day we have a negotiation we get the bill but we really don't have any seeing how they bill is put together and i think that's the problem so for me i'd like to put the energy to energy there i think we need to past is you know we don't want to hold up whatever has been done but looking forward we need to put some real energy in how this is done thank you thank you for your thoughts mr carrol plumber to come in and fix it right you have a choice your individual choice but if a water line breaks and it is serviced five hundred customers i don't to give us all five hundred you might ask call tomorrow and we'll bring them in and we'll wait till monday so we don't pay any overtime or or extra costs do you think that five hundred customers are all going to say no problem we'll wait i doubt that very much s i know you guys smiling at this but this is a real fact we're not we're not dealing with a hypothetical situation we're dealing with fact now i understand why standby it's important you can a drink you can't to do anything your life is tied up because i have family and friends who are in that area i understand that i had to be big to disagree with you mr white but i worked in or tell and when they called me in if i'd gone out all night and i was incapable  mean i couldn't i had to say no there's a difference there's a real big difference we're talking the community at large and many of these essential services so a break water main break any of these have ditch or mental and safety and health concerns that need to be addressed immediately so although i think this is not good the way it's set up and i agreed to it in the beginning i said that this is not good i believe also that this needs to be moved on agreements by so needs to be worked at the state level which you and i both know has always been a real task because they live in a castle down in awhile and they don't understand the real world around them i really do i believe that i've been  that with them you didn't you've been there almost so i'm almost as bad as washington d c i don't know how much in touch with the real world but let's not go any further than that so  although i do i think it's a bad idea i don't like it i'll still support it only because it needs to be done and we need to get to the root of the problem instead of always trying to cut it off at the top because it goes right  that we are coming right back so we need to make that change and i hope like me in a few months we have left here that we you know we can get some of these things done and walk away knowing that the process i fair and expediting that can be done but i i really can't compare apples to oranges i can't i cannot and this is a whole different game we're talking where many people are involved which is the community at large again by breaks i don't know if the water i can't wait to tomorrow that's my call but i'm one individual i don't know if you can do it at one tire community a short breaks  sewer line breaks i'm going to have to call somebody i mean i have to call them right away but if it breaks down on the main street now that's a whole different story you know so i'm saying mr chair i agree with all the statements i  everybody we need to make changes but changes happened yesterday we've got to make a decision and so i mean favor of making the decision because again i trust mr barzan administrations are moving slowly but surely don't need any more people the need is not there anymore but even in the department chair with a chair thank you very much for letting me carry on on this because i think it's important to wrap it up and make sure everybody understands that we're not happy with this i can't justify it or anything it's just provision contained in the whole layer of ice statutes and we would need a statutory revision that your we need to make any adjustments in how the votes  is going to need to be revised to members of the staff has already worked on one area that i would ask you gentlemen to give us comment today because we have all received earlier communications up a concern of our county employees regarding unit three and business contracts taking care and address the concerns of pay i believe this contract increased the starting salary for a clerk one so i'm not and i can't speak to whether or not that satisfies the group but i believe those were their concerns and the concerns were not addressed bear that direct concern was not addressed thank you so employer and bargaining unit representatives chose to ignore the pay equity issue understanding today is to hear more and i don't think that well i know that this contract did not address can you know push this out of committee this morning despite the budget committee where is the money in the budget to be come july chair the department's person officers are currently reviewing because this is the first year is a step in greece we can't just automatically calculate how much that's going to cost us so they're reviewing those items right now as far as who's eligible for steps what steps will be and what their salary will be as compared to the budget amounts in the sixteen adopted budget  once that determination is made and then the review will have to be made of the different programs and how that would impact the program if additional funds would be required then we'd have to come back to council with a budget amendment appropriate more money in those programs for those this increases that's two and a half million we've got a fine thank you very much this cocker in your chair that's kind of my question as and the x you know expediting this because we're  was it even brought up in the discussions i mean i would hope that having heard the concerns that at least it would have been brought up in the negotiations and was it shot down or traditional cost of eleven thousand nine hundred thirty nine dollars for two thousand and sixteen what percentage increase is that that you're using the resolutions or were given to us by the state i believe the office of collective bargaining they calculate these numbers and presented to us based on information that they've collected from the different jurisdictions i have no idea what percentage increase that eleven thousand dollars would increase but i can take a guess that it's a fairly small amount because part of the reason why it's a small amount for us is because we're already doing the sixty  forty payments whereas the other counties were doing fifty fifty in the previous contract and so the increase to us is very minimal believe that's just for forty six individuals isn't it yes i'd like to get a a breakdown of what the percentage increases amount to because it's it's an another frustration that i have is that all these other things that are contracted for simply get increased and they're never involved in the actual or not brought and put on the table the same time as wage increases and  so these are you know these are significant amounts of money as well and for them not to be taken into consideration in the negotiations i think it's it's too bad when when we negotiate with the i'll double you we have employee meals we have health care we have wages and we have retirement benefits and so forth so if you know if we're in a tough financial situation and they want more of one or the other and generally will come out of one of the other categories however it seems to me that we never everybody else and in the face of the remaining unfunded liabilities we've got to start controlling some of these costs by asking for something back during these negotiations and i don't i don't see it and i think it's it's just adding to our challenges with being able to fund everything so and it adds to the challenge of adding employees because we're adding a whole lot of cost i you know with these agreements we need to remind ourselves that the just the increase in the cost of employees for the county  between the first time we went back to significant raises in two thousand and thirteen from two thousand and thirteen to two thousand and seventeen the amount of additional cost for  employment for the county of maui is equal to all the taxes that we raise from all the businesses and all the residents in all of ca all of my luke and all of my distr combine where we're going to get those to get them or what we're going to get those revenues are going to have to increase taxes we're going to have to increase rates we're going to have to do a lot of things to cover this and yet as mr others have stated we're not at the table we have to deal with the what is decided upon i'd like to see you know mr victory knows assistance through a stack that we may be asked the legislature to take another look at the way the negotiations are handled and because it's a little troubling that we would just simply end up having to pay the piper every time around without getting any much and in the way of adjustments to how it allows us to to work more easily and effectively as departments thank  so we understand that i would say the one thing i'm going to ask mr baez i'm not sure we need all of this increases i believe during budget especially with increases in premium amounts not in their salaries and we have included an adjustment in f y sixteen budget to cover those costs so i don't know where these are why these are included in the cost items bring forth this issue to the state legislature for review and i think it's long overdue actually and i think all the counties can unite behind this this is been one of those challenges that sometimes you get three counties they want to do something and one that doesn't and that's another issue but i think this one i think all of us can unite behind of it is that your you know what i know that it's time and so i am on the in the process of working on this so it will be a proposal for next year is a check we're just made of priorities as far as sit down and refute this whole system to see what changes can be made to make it more equitable and taking away the four balls from the state because to me that even even when i was with the board of education and the way to a system was set up in that manner mr white you think it's bad there should be and when you state it with itself it is even worse so anyhow just get this  yet there is no step movements for that lump sum payment to be calculated so just get it across the board that would affect their base chair revisions that the staff has included is to attach the summary of cost items instead of the county communication to the resolution that will give us the amount  per bargaining unit as of for fiscal year twenty five sixteen and twenty seventeen and the rest is housekeeping to include the budget director and receiving a certified copy of the resolution and to indicate that it's the hawaii government employees association for bargain and units two three and four members any questions on the r hazard pay is that being addressed anywhere in here i don't believe it is ok not what they will receive the pay increases that are before you and when the new contract is is developed or is established we are hoping that the union looks at what they already got and then go from there ok thank you very much and thank you for bringing up the clerk issue too there was a lot of testimonies and things at one point here and so missed and it was curious to hear that well we county is the only one that has that issue and the others do not so i'm just kind of one little more clarification as to why that's occurring moto if you're in a position to have said something at these negotiations in reference to that or i don't just not quite sure why we stand out from the other counties and in i don't know any more than that ok and so that would be sure maybe the particular union bargaining unit perhaps would be the main go requirements and qualifications so i would say as mr victor in a said earlier i mean when you're looking at what they've seen it  here at eleven fifty nine and we need one decision by twelve so i know we all hate that but you choose going to recommend that we push out the three resolutions as we've raised in proposed by the staff and you ch the other thing i would appreciate chair is that you know mr baez brought up the reminder that we're paying sixty percent of health care versus fifty percent by the state and the other counties i would appreciate if your boss would be able to provide us with what exactly that cost per year because i don't remember getting anything in return for that i mean i don't think we got any work rule changes i don't think we got any other provisions softened when we've provided a memorandum of understanding to pay sixty instead of fifty percent so i would appreciate a revised resolution under approving cost items are not supervised the white color employees excluded from bargaining unit three and supervisor white collar employees excluded from bargaining unit