allegedly gives to a person must be included in the charging document under section one one hundred s three of the code of criminal procedure and if not if this court can and actually should  hold that the miners name should not be so rude and of course the state recognizes the cases cited in the defendant spree for many cases including people versus john is the only supreme court case you have stated where an indictment charges in advance either against persons or property the name of the person or property insured if no must be stated and the allegation must be proved as a lie but i believe that the recognition and people versus you know of the trial was torn away from the formalization of criminal criminal complaints coupled with the substantial public policy inclusion of the minors victims names in these complaints should not be included now again i do recognize the cases which have stated their general proposition of law however those cases of analyze that statement of law and the facts of the case in terms of the functions as actually served by that rule of law and throughout history those cases  and not that there's other ways to protect the defendants constitutional rights and again coupled with the substantial public policy of protecting minors this state expressly stated in three which we cited in our brief last year that this day illinois has an acute interest in the wellbeing of minors now to define our business brief that this inclusion of the during the trial by the state upon a motion to a man the indictment i will believe that this court can take test one step further and actually find that it's not a defect at all given the iraqi mission again that the charging instrument is not the sole means by which a designs and independence constitutional rights are protected now of course the cases ha it as opposed to an essential element that mosty included in the charging documents and in that case the court set is of course an essential element that being the name of the victim of the crime of the unquestionably important and the defendant is of course entitled under mansion with disclosure inability to letters or otherwise really doesn't have to be included in the charging document and i think that the  particulars if the everything's included in the charging document so it's the people's position here that if it doesn't have to be there under a one one one dash three and the only supreme court has recognized this can't you dispute that substantial public policy of protecting mine that we should have a rule that name does not have to be sold in the charging document and we're asking this court to so fine so look for the and in this case it actually started out in one of the cases where the name was going to be provided under seal in the bill of particulars very close to the time of the charge and then there was some back and forth below and they ended up that the public defender saying that was not sufficient it was the full name and that's how we ended up here because we did not believe that the full name was necessary what was th was a specific reason i mean there was no record in these cases so we of course and who that i am grieved but there was a specific reason and that reason was that this person was going to be easily identified in this particular case  was the didn't have the roster of the names of the children that were on this basketball team he had a scholarship and the parents were just really concerned about the fact that he was going to be identified and that's how we got to this point there's no further question but if it's a defect then something is wrong if it doesn't have to be it's not the fuck well let's talk about identity here and stuff it's not the protection that they policy which it asked this court to prove again the defendants of minute first off this court were to do so you'd be departing from illinois precedent the defendant has absolutely no problem with the if indeed it is true that the defendants are really concerned and share the same public policy concerns and if they could show their initial aim miners make them more likely to be identified th briefs not by their complete name but by initials or by the first name and then the initial and surname of course that's according to scream or rule there's no supreme court or rule currently in existence allowing the state to do what it's asking this court to approve nor is there any legislation allowing this were to do to prove with the state is asking your owners to do defendants admits that the steep believes this is necessary of this new pleading practice i a handful of illinois cases in which defendants were convicted of criminal offenses they appealed and then argue for the first time on appeal that the charge instrument was deficient because it feels like in a fire miss identified the complaining that we don't have to show any presence the law and the statute requires and then that it and that seems to me what you're what you're saying that regardless of whether ls that would have given them the identity and i think that would have satisfied couple several problems and you can this was the former this in will county there was no more agreement here by the state well gee we realized that this was challenge is where the timing becomes important defense counsel stated identity is adequate and that i believe that the it is adequate it's adequate in the bill particulars the position presented before this court is in stark contrast just saying that the defense was willing to accept initials in the course  not so i believe that it's contrary to the fans argument here to say well we we would have done initials beloveds so why you know what was wrong with the state with the state complying with that s i don't believe it has to be the legislature that changes the law here i believe that the law provides an opportunity for this court to fine in my years in his denial to be included in perhaps i mean how can you can still charge you proceed on the case however on the public policy is so much more widespread her time in th as much as possible and this is one means