and if you have a cell phone as close do if you could please either turn it off or at least put it to silent we would greatly appreciate that so it doesn't go off accidentally so first up is agenda and lastly there is a memo from feb fourteenth twenty seventeen it's a firearms ordinance informational update just thought it might help inform the discussion later on tonight i can go with them five days ok thank you greg question on five see where it says no no sorry secretary five b the audit it's not clear on the agenda of the material for this was actually in the consent prior consent agenda just wondering if there's a way that we can to make it clearer more transparent going to find where to find the material it's going to be discussed if it had been previously and it out and open a packet because it four which is public to be heard that's a time for the public to speak to the select board an item is that are not on the agenda is there anyone here tonight wishing to speak during public to be here questions in advance regarding the agenda or you regarding the material in our packet and that's greatly appreciated by those of you who do it gives time to give a heads up to the staff to be able to address your questions and get the information to you in a timely manner so for those that do that thank you ok so we're going to move onto our first item of business which are first class liquor licenses and for first class liquor licenses the the business wrapped and needs to be present so i'm just going to go through the list and confirm who is here we have essex country club good we have hoagies pizza and pasta so sorry i'm going to do it go to the ones that are here last we have j p's diner and del you and let's see burgess two is here ok all right great so before we do any motion what i'd like to do is go over and see what kind of questions you may have or comments on the licenses before we we go through the motions so i'd like to as a slut or if they have any questions or comments about the stack of licenses it's accurate it's that's acceptable and you'll probably be seeing more of them going forward so on the in the older form asked for select board signatures i assume we should go ahead and sign those or do we because that's the way that form is their i don't see if there's eight pages but most of the extra pages are around the nonprofit disclosure thin let's see jewels on the green the updated last enforcement seminar needs to be updated to one eight eighteen i think it was it still several that are looking for outside consumption permits so i think we should like we did last year is is break those out separately so that it's clear that we're proving the out outdoor consumption once we can do the first class like a license without and then the second motion could be the ones first class liquor license with outside consumption to make sense ok do with the board support and even seen incorporated with catering license doing business as hokies pizza and pasta j p s diner and deli limited doing business as g p s diner and deli and she see pizza hut l c doing business as pizza hut suite six o five thank you want to have a second second mike any further discussion on approving the first class liquor license renewals with outdoor consumption permanent outside condensed consumption permit for the following businesses a year west indies incorporated doing business as the essex g s impre corporation doing business as jules on the green can count i'll see doing business as lazy farmer links at lang farm and i'll see doing business as links at lang farm spaniel incorporated doing business pizzeria and restaurant t o b incorporated doing business as mary's tavern as he and n p incorporated doing business as park place tavern bertus to l c doing business as b admonition which is this like court takes the issuance of liquor licenses very seriously i should the area stablish ments we serve liquor now we expect you not to serve minors or anyone who is obviously  and we do thank you for doing business in essex and we wish you a very successful year so it was going to stay for the rest of the meeting if you'd like but you're also free to go ok thank you  ok we're going to move on to the second class liquor license renewals and i'll open that up to to the board for comments on questions on the second class liquor license  lost seven are listed as three to six other questions or comments beverage vermont c v s pharmacy l l c doing business as c v s pharmacy number zero one zero five to be incorporated doing business as ask is essex discount beverage seventh burlington c doing business as fairgrounds beverage fifth burlington l l c doing business as five corners rioting martin's foods of south burlington l l c doing business as hannaford supermarket and pharmacy k p h drugs incorporated doing business as kinney drugstore number twenty one sherman v allen incorporated doing business as mack's six month it r l valley incorporated doing business as middle fields cement andes convenience stores probably to doing business as simons as six center store and deli simons five corners incorporated doing business says simon's five corner store simon's route to a store l we'll move on to the next item of business which we have a presentation tonight on the fiscal two thousand seventeen audit and we have sarah and ok c ok pleased to be here tonight with k c scan dory who's a c p a in the audit manager for cattell brannigan in sergeant casey led the team that's it r f y e seventeen financial statement on it and i would like to take a quick opportunity to thank her and her team  pleasure to meet you all i've actually been doing your audit for probably about ten years now so it's nice to finally be here so i'm by no means going to go through this audit every page because we'll be here on that just the higher level some important things you know to try to keep an eye on if at any point you have any questions or on me to you know getting anything deeper along the way just just let me know so the most important part of the  it obviously is the audit opinion and we did issue an unmodified opinion which is the cleanest opinion you can have so that's always a good thing one thing that was noted in this opinion it's considered in other matters paragraph and that related to the change in accounting principle for the town this year and that was because inventories now being recorded on your books and it's mainly the inventory for sol that's never been recorded on the books before the theory was always it's pretty consistent from year to year so the change as long as you know didn't say it was ok but the village has always had inventory on their books so as the accounting departments you know merge together management and we agree that things should should be consistent it's probably better for anyone so the decision was made to put on the town's books in this fiscal year so that's all that relates to you know there's no concern or anything relating to that there is a footnote on that the very last footnote  nineteen and discloses that shows how it affected the retained earnings the next section of the audit is the management discussion analysis which is written by sara and the accounting department  that's probably one of the most important things to read for the audit it's generally you know it's a lot of comparison in simple terms none of the accounting you know basically what happened during the year things that caused increases big variances that should be noted pretty much a lot of the history government financials aren't comparative so the management discussion analysis does a great job of comparing year over year  and things that changed and what caused them to change first set of the financials as a government wide financials which is on accrual basis of accounting so that's part all your assets and your debt which is different that's on page one page three is the fund financials w what you're used to seeing when you are reviewing the internal financials reports mostly just the current readily available items which is generally around sixty days available so you're not going to have your capital assets you're not going to have your debt on those books purchases of assets are expensed debt payments are expensed on that one other item to no that's on page three the unavailable revenue from property taxes and that's property taxes that have been collected within sixty days the number is is fairly large you know the town has in recent history as far as i know gone out to tax sales but that would be something to kind of keep an eye on is is that that uncollected amount and then the fund balance restrictions are also shown on that page  twenty eight which are all things that i should recall from approving throughout the year and your unassigned fund balance is right in line with your policy which is fifteen percent of operating  that you definitely have a very healthy fund balance and then the next financials are your proprietary funds which is your water sewer recreation fund those funds are separately reported they're generally self sustaining business type funds same thing there those are going to report your assets and your debt last report that's important to look at is the very last page or page thirty eight which is your budget to actual so that's basically just for your general fund it's going to show basically how in line you were with your budget for a five seventeen there are some larger variances but all of those are discussed in the management discussion analysis in the front for further information on those so that's pretty much a high level overview there's any areas you want me to go in depth more or if there's specific question trending up and to keep an eye on those it happens to be an item that we will be talking about tonight as far as a little bit more aggressive tack on that is there anything else that you would recommend for us to do other than you know looking at the text policy and maybe addressing those a little bit earlier in the delinquency perhaps before they get too large y would say keeping an eye on that i think general i don't know if it's a feeling that you know the delinquent owners you know that there hasn't been a history of enforcement on those or what the reason but we look at it as part of the audit and the way we test that is we're looking at the assessed values just make sure that in the event of a tax a zero the property would cover whatever there was so it's never been actually you know a finding or anything negative for the audit but it is something you know for your cash flow things like that just to kind of keep an eye on you know on that getting bigger but i think there are you know handful is considered delinquent mom but definitely if it's over a year that's when you're should really be looking at you know trying to collect those sure ok thank for the record i did not tell casey so if i might you know the audit does take quite a lot of staff time getting prepared for the audit and i was not here for the days you were here but maybe you c tell us how many days you were in our midst to to work with our staff yeah we were actually here for a full five days mr mention there's three of us so we set up shop rate in this room you know from the start of the day till the end and that also includes the village though so we're doing both audits that same week so we used to do the town i think two and a half three days so it's pretty well split timelines take a lot of your time a lot of step time then to it does you know the documents are unique to you and then there's all the wrap up time back in the office and then e mails in the phone calls yeah so but it does take a lot of staff time and our auditors and i just you know it's not something that we take lightly t it's put into of voluminous books but one of the things he sarah and i and others will be talking about is that these will start getting posted on our website make sure they're in a prominent place to people will get a digital version of it you know it's the way that make sure that our financials are prominently displayed on many websites after the great job we always appreciate the preparation that goes into before we arrive makes things go  do so one of the things that we have been looking at as the audit wrapped up was the level of delinquent taxes and in particular that deferred revenue items were the ones that weren't collected within sixty days and that was five hundred eighty five thousand dollars at the end of the audit in that struck us as being a little bit on the high side certainly it's not a desperate need because so so we were discussing internally that maybe it was time to pursue a tax sale at least to get the balling ball rolling the tax involves a number of phases the first of which would be a demand letter from the town which says this is your delinquent balance we're headed toward a tax sale this you are you may call us and make appropriate payment arrangements and also here are the criteria for abatement if you think you qualify and normally that gets people moving a little bit more than that regular quarterly delinquent notice which is more of a one of the one of the properties that's in that balance and then of the others there are three others that have active for four others that have active payment plans that are current and so that they would not be when do we go to a tax sale and who would go on that text me is certainly clear that a property that owes fifteen dollars would not go to attack sale at the same time it's clear that maybe one of our top five delinquencies that was one hundred  sixty five thousand would certainly go to a check taxable there's a lot of room in between those two and i think there's a lot to be said about balancing the financial realities of our taxpayers and the needs of the town likely to continue so in this policy that you put together that you look at other communities and what they're doing or where did you get the ideas to do this so the village of essex junction has a tax policy back from when they were collecting taxes for the village and for the school and so that combined with a short policy from the city of st alban's form the starting point for this policy and then we there are two different thresholds when do we go to tax tax sales is an administrative burden we do get to charge back attorney's fees equal to up to fifteen percent of the delinquent principal but when you have lower you know lower level accounts us not a lot but it is a lot it's a daily task internally to make sure we have the most current attorney fees and if someone comes in to pay at eight am on a tuesday they know exactly what they are and they're not paying one balance and then getting a call next week saying that you are with another fifty dollars so it's time consuming internally it takes up the attorney's time it may even cause bad feeling in the town and i'm not sure what their response would be but we don't want to just go to tax every time there's somebody over a certain threshold so that we're constantly having rolling tax sales so we want to take a look at that when we want to initiate a tax sale and then also once we do that who will be on the check sale and i think it's really important to look at two criteria on a personal parcel basis one is how big is the balance and the second is how long have they had a balance and those those things indicate different scenarios and there might be different treatments for both and i think we can talk about all those different levels or a number of moving parts that we basically brought up a good point in you know if we're not taking any action fossil spares behavior right i mean i think there is if there's a balance and have to make sure that you're addressing the right things but also you need to be addressing something because if you're not addressing it and that's a different  message you also want to make sure that you are in ministering your policies equitably and you know whether it's you know gender or race and all those of it's not based upon that it's based upon what the numbers are telling you the balance the age the length etc not who you are if you want to go over any other details with us or i would i i would like to reiterate what evan just said so there's a very clear purpose statement at the top of this policy which i think might be the most important component of it this is to give us guidelines so that when we're in the office and somebody is calling and asking other taxes or someone wants to know why hasn't you know why does my neighbor not have to pay and i do we have something that we've all agreed on that we can talk to the other thing i'd like to go over briefly is the summary of some statistics that they've laid out and taxes because we have a tax due date every six months it is a little bit of a moving target so i have laid out the statistics for three different perspectives column b is all delinquencies all yours that includes the amount that just went delinquent at midnight on march fifteenth so this is skewed artificially high because that was just a couple days ago and a lot of these will flow in in the next month in fact i posted two hundred  thirty five thousand dollars today so this is a little artificially high so for sake of discussion that might we probably don't want to look at that column in column c i've executed that's the most recent payment that when delinquent a few days ago  it does have the first payment from the current tax year which was due back in september so there has been some time that people could come in and pay or make payment arrangements and then column d i've excluded all of checks for two thousand and seventeen so i've given you an idea about the makeup of that the policy talks about maybe having a percentage of total property tax budget be the threshold for going to tax now so calculated what five percent of the budget what three percent of the budget would look like and given the idea of where we stand on the current f eighteen budget there's some information on the number of accounts who would fit the criteria that i've laid out here which is all subject to change who has agreements average delinquency and then i have taken out some  b which is skewed high is about six thousand dollars that's all i have to say for now ok so questions comments like of the top five are is it safe to say that those have some kind of a payment arrangement that is not being followed at this time through i have them through the old payment arrangements that th have and they were all completed or voided before i got here so they're all of on this list here one of them has an active payment arrangement and the others do not have a record of payment arrangement at all at least two of them are businesses in my mind as we're working on this the first step toward a tax sales going to be a phone call to those that the businesses for example and let them know we're headed this way now's your time you know to pay before we get  attorney fee realm because if you are one hundred sixty thousand dollars your attorney fees could you know we're going to be able to charge all the attorney fees back to that and that's just going to keep going up and then a lot are from us a letter from the attorney and then we get into some like clean you seven hundred sixty five thousand dollars in taxes the phone call that you're going to make to tell them that we're going for a tax sell is not the first phone call that they've received so i your first year delinquency you're paying it seventeen or yeah one thousand additional percent to us and then after that twelve percent a year this is this is big dollars is not a good investment for our you know from the delinquent taxpayer standpoint on the sheet as it were if we were to enact the policy today that we used column i guess the thing that's a good one how many properties is it on this list that that would it it might be a little bit obscured there would be twenty nine so there are thirty five properties that meet the criteria five thousand dollars or more with multiple years outstanding seven of those also have ten thousand dollars or more in one year of those four have active payment arrangements so so of those thirty one or that kind of the payment if they if they miss a payment and they're in breach of that contract then what happens do they with they then the one of the list for sale it depends so if we initiated the tax sale and the attorney had sent out their demand letter already and we were moving into the title search phase we probably would not be in a position to add them into the tax sale because things are already rolling there are very specific guidelines on when things have to happen and we don't want to have a situation where if certain due dates for most of them in a different today for some of them if they breached their contract before we got into the attorneys being involved then yes they would be on to they would they would go right on to that tax if it's just one one payment breach so you have brought a copy of the agreement if you'd like to see it as well a breach of the terms is is failure so failure to comply with the terms is any failure there's a detailed  of when they're going to pay and how much if somebody calls and says hey i owe you five hundred dollars tomorrow and i just i'm not going to be able to do it can i pay half of this week and half next week that's fine we want communication we want a reasonable plan to pay off the delinquent taxes so you're not going to be you're only going to be penalized if you just ignore me us with this and with your your taxes so this is a reasonable turn of this is available to anybody who is having a hard time paying income and we can discuss what what makes sense for them what makes sense for us they're willing to get on a plane and stick to it even though they're behind the planets to get  current how much time do they have to get current is there so in in the tax policy one of the criteria for removal from tax sales would be to pay fifty percent of the balance and then a payment plan to pay the rest in twelve months with equal with monthly installments and so that twelve months is really important because if somebody is going to be removed from tax sale for setting up a payment plan we really want to know before the next time we talk about tax sale whether or not they're going to comply with that payment plan so that's where that twelve months come from as far as the repayment agreement outside of texas well it doesn't specify a timeframe i think it would depend it we wouldn't want to go very long so the agreement also says you have to stay current on your current taxes and your future taxes so if you don't pay your september installment even though you're making your monthly payments you're your contract has been violated but that being said i think a twelve to twenty four month timeframe depending on dollar amount due is a reasonable time to look at it we don't do anybody any favors letting this go on longer right they get to a point where the questions and so you say there's thirty one potential at this point and you said that once we start the process we don't and people they can come off if they if they get themselves on a payment plan or they or properties when's the next time it would could happen again so i think that i think that this is a really good time of year to evaluate it one of the things that we should talk about is so if we're going to look at we're going to evaluate our delinquencies and include the year that were in the year that just passed that might be a little bit skewed so are we going to decide when we evaluate delinquencies we're going to exclude the current year and just look at texture sixteen and earlier use those who a few things have to be decided but i do think that after the march payment is a really good time to look at this even if we include the current year we could see in march payment payments due march fifteenth we could send our who our regular quarterly notice april fifteenth we get sent our demand letter may fifteenth the attorney gets and there's june fifteenth and on and on were rolling and that pretty much gets us to a sale by the end of august which may not sound significant by the end of august is that sixty day modified accrual period during which any cash we bring in is revenue for the current year under audit so that that makes a difference for our budget to actual and for our f continued absolutely so that that's a choice that we you would be looking to us to help you may help her to make it is what was the trigger day do we and what are the criteria that we use and you've suggested here the possibility a couple possibilities one is that right we only look at twenty seventeen and prior so year we've just finished paying twenty seventeen twenty so yeah so the march the march twenty eight hundred payment is the final twenty seventeen  and so so these thirty one are are with the properties that are are delinquent for a year at this point they've already been delinquent for for a year that's correct so they have this is here so it's ok so the way right ok so excluding twenty seventeen so twenty sixteen prior ok ok so so the the possible way to view this is say after a year has elapsed if they haven't caught up on their taxes then we get a tax now certainly yes that's a reasonable approach  three hundred fourteen to our knowledge can be coming any day now they're just saying you know if you if we had the chance to die it is but let's say a chunk of people a particular bank or mortgage company uses a particular firm to send in their escrow to taxes and said then didn't come in by the deadline in the coming next week and so that number could be down or somebody was out of town they forgot whatever we have lots of people who come in and pay by a bit but ultimately what you're seeing is there's that thirty one that  long term longer term outstanding have not paid into your point and we don't want that list to grow now here over a year and start this plan when we're at forty  into your point it was it was just do but there is still some time it's going to elapse before we hand the list over to the attorney probably ninety days at the at this at the earliest so even though it's really soon and it's a big number it might not be it's not unreasonable what the couple options that we think we've discussed here and the other the other question if i can ask another so so that you're saying that these these thirty one is the math right twenty four of them have more than five thousand do and seven of them have more than ten thousand do that with you that's correct the first number yes that have more than five thousand and multiple years of twenty sixteen and twenty fift so that satisfies the criteria that's been proposed in the policy and so we would before we could potentially move forward with all of those right now and then a year from now look to see who might be in that same bucket that didn't get addressed that's correct  in the five thousand dollar number is based on and what's worth putting effort into collecting is that the i think so i think it's a price here if your average house is two hundred eighty thousand dollars that's just a little bit less it's just the balance and what the taxes would be in one year so that five thousand dollars applies to multiple years but it is about what is in one year although there is another way we could you know they're sorry that there are so many options here if we want to say if you have you know one year ten thousand or more i feel like that's a big number that's twice the average that's going to exclude a lot of your your residents who may just be having a hardship in one year so i think that's a good number for the one year calculation we could go the other way on the multiple here and say hey you know what maybe it bore our two or more years but fifteen thousand or more which is a really clear indication to us that those people were just delinquent for one year they haven't made any effort to pay so there's no i thought survey there are a lot more options here than i thought initially you know when is the last time that a six did attack so i believe it was about two thousand and twelve so this the proposal is to make this an annual thing so i guess i'm going to throw another option that it not be reviewed every year but you know every couple years or something and then you know sitting with rational based  also considering that the time and effort and maybe it's something that we should at least look at this part of the audit but maybe not you know lock ourselves into having to go to tax sale every year like trying to i'm trying to understand that if we did it every two years i'm just wondering how many would get the benefit how many people that are seriously delinquent would get the benefit of that one year hiatus that we're not looking at it and i'm not sure i agree with not looking at it every year and what i would suggest what i wanted to suggest a little bit earlier is that it's reviewed every year at the board decide whether it's wants going to tag sale in that particular year in other words i'd i'd rather leave that flexible review it every year have made and and i like your idea of that timeframe that you just laid out so maybe the first meeting we have after the march fifteenth payments or do you come in and do a presentation to us with perhaps the same type of spreadsheet and that way we would have the data in front of us and we'd be able to decide whether we could let it go or whether we should move forward in that's a great idea is anything in time so the only i'm i'm a little concerned about making it subjective every year because of the concern about potential interpretation of bias or whatever if we say we're not going to do it this year because we're feeling generous likely that in one of the things that was in this policy that you proposed was a threshold of three percent you have zero three percent five percent listed here and you know in current with current numbers you know five percent being six hundred fifteen thousand and three percent being three hundred sixty nine if you look at the history i think that irene gave us earlier i think we are mostly always over three percent so i said i'd feel better if we had a specific criteria so that we had a a solid trigger and we're going to do it consistently every year so that we're never called don't know if five percent seems like a big number three percent seems like a small number four percent might be ok i don't know but i'd rather keep i could hear it but i guess i would be more inclined to want to do it with a more if we're going to have a policy to do it with a very distinct measurable numbers associated with it so that we're not doing arbitrarily i think make my life easier  is it not conceivable however that are the actions we decide tonight or in a future meeting about how we're going to take a more aggressive approach to this is it not conceivable that far more people would jump on board with some kind of a payment plan and therefore not fall i mean they may be they may be moving the percentage but they're under an active arrangement that we've agreed to with them and their current is that conceivable absolutely and certainly once a letter other than just that quarterly statement goes out that's that lays this out you know i think if you get an awful lot for me it's a little bit heavier or from our attorney i think that that's a big wake up call for that for the vast majority of people who and who who start out on these lists and if we're just talking about thirty one i you know i wouldn't be surprised if we wouldn't if we didn't have any of them when we got the auction so absolutely even just talking about it could could turn the tide actually the ho is how do we come up with whether it's three four five percent for threshold and we three's a low but it's got a high fours a sweet spot maybe it's kind of in the middle the town can adopt the four percent see how it goes for the year and we could this is how it worked we had thirty one we went thirty one for thirty one everybody's paid around a payment plan or at the end of there we went twenty eight for thirty one but still made a big dent did four percent make a difference and maybe you know year to year based upon the balance that can be adjusted because it'll tell you how many people are on the list and how many we're going to be going after and what's to find that little sweet spot maybe for thank you you made a statement earlier that kind of caught my attention and i think if i got this right you said that what's the end of the sentence was that would certainly make my life easier if so without going without going through the entire operational piece of all of this is is this predominantly manually tracked is do we have software available where this is a couple clicks of the button to get it can you just shed some light on that or only i can easily produce the delinquent less and i can easily export that into excel and gets to to sticks out of it i could even  a workable excel table if you wanted to ask the questions on the spot to get the numbers once we move into a tax sale it's much more manual so the method that i've used that has worked the best is sharing a google docs spreadsheet with the attorney's office and so i put the information in there and they update it and i updated on a daily basis so as they're incurring fees i'm adding it to our accounts here so that anytime somebody calls a get a current balance and so that gets updated  fees are added as people make arrangements as as the return receipt for like certified mails come back and we find this person doing it to serve them with the sheriff there you would believe some of the things that come up in this process so that's a very manual and again the goal would be to not have to go to sale absolutely to not even get as that's when all the heavy lifting and all the back and four star selected three percent so in valuating historical tax a link with these and up in a former place of employment it always seems that after a certain number of years we got up to two one hundred percent but really for like years two through jumps out at me as having remembered seeing that ninety seven percent over and over again and also in light of the fact that there's a chance of direct and light of the fact that we give one hundred percent of what is due to the village into the school the town owns all the delinquencies and so i also think it's in our best interest to keep that range a little bit more narrow we also get all the penalties and interest but that's not really the way we want to be balancing our books but also if it took six years to get to four point one three per if you set the threshold at four percent right  the question about just that number the percentage of current whatever it is tom budget because when you look at the history and twenty fifteen what we need to take in this year toward our town municipal budget because we are really counting on expected revenues that never were town expected revenues before twenty fifteen and i have a feeling some of those are still left over in these numbers some of the some of the older ones are i'm not sure i hundred percent understand the twelve million figure is just the town property tax revenue so i didn't say i did not pick up any of the village numbers any of the school numbers or the amount that special tax rate for the highway because that gets that all one sixty five goes there as well so i've excluded all of those from that there will be a lot lower than that he to just i think a point of clarification the three are the four the five percent only triggers when we do and it wouldn't change the number of people that are being that is no real properties that are being addressed and so it's just a matter of where we get to a year from now whether we're above or below whatever our threshold is whether we do what i did attack self again the next year whether anybody fits into the category that you've defined here that's correct so you could still be at four percent  do any taxes because if nobody has over five thousand or ten thousand that's trial may not necessarily trigger a sex out by them with that number to begin you know how much people think that is that is true that is not a situation that that i had thought about and big we would have to maybe re evaluate if everyone was just staying below threshold but it is conceivable that that would happen yeah right because if i got my tax bill here and if i don't if i hadn't paid it on time i would have been subject to a two hundred ninety five dollar penalty which would accrue one percent for x amount of time then it goes to whatever that other percentage for a while so what if i ow and that counts in this delinquent tactic that's yes so i i it would take probably longer than my lifetime before i would get into the category where you consider me to tax for that one doing things for that if significant action and wonder if we need another criteria that if a significant number of years has passed regarding this is the man or is it just too much trouble because it's too small an amount of money we may get into that situation one of the one of the other policies that i've dealt with with the threshold was one thousand dollars and so i do think that it's the second great syria in the second section there which is if tax it was deemed appropriate that you know the criteria for which properties will be selected i really like the first one the ten thousand but the second one is more about length of time that they've had a delinquency and so that can be can be altered to be more focused on the like the time with a not without a dollar threshold even or with that with a lower dollar question but that would get your situation with what you just described if if you refused to pay the penalty for seven years i would finally be able to get you but you're to do most people pay their taxes on time and those few that that don't if there's no consequence and others may decide  that there's no harm why pay so then the questions that you need from us tonight to help with this is the threshold number we talked about three percent or four percent i'm not sure we're where we are on that  re and then review it next year and see what things look like or did you want to try four percent three so you chose three do you think it is i want to get the middle you know that thing it's certainly i mean we're definitely above the four percent right now so we certainly be above the three percent right now so we either one would put us to a taxi at this point and then we can re evaluate one way or the other next year when i do the four percent of this year and then we can reevaluate next year if we want to tighten that up or it  proposal one of the things i so the first criteria is at least one year of delinquencies with no payment plan above ten thousand it seems logical that the next one would be two or more years  for a length clause i don't you two may sound short to anyone you know to listening just just offhand but two years behind on your taxes it's really what one payment behind is really difficult to get caught up on so two two years i of those there are only seven that have the ten thousand or higher and the same thirty five that have the multi year five thousand there are there are a couple more that have multi year that flop that drop below the five thousand but not not too many not it doesn't take it from you know one hundred so so the timing of when you say these are the properties we're going after i guess that's what i'm trying to go down when we pick those up it doesn't say in the policy when that happens there's no trigger you want prince i think it should be the current because if we go with the prior we're already a year behind and that some people might have three or more and that if that becomes too burdensome we can also put that up for review is a really quick i promise and you brought up earlier that the second criteria for a trigger if there exist one or more individual accounts with without or an eligible repayment agreement with cumulative amounts greater than ten thousand that could put you know one account with a ten thousand balance could trigger a tax bill for everybody i don't know if that might be that might be that was not my intention the intention was that if there are some really large ones but we don't quite hit the four three or four three percent that we would be able to pursue them so that made needs to be reevaluated which i can do during the tomorrow evaluate whether you know i i don't i don't know there were you know so the residue the business tax bills are larger so how that skews the statistics one way or the other they're both they all go into the same pot that twelve million dollars i'm not sure that's a that's a good question i can't think of a reason offhand but there may be one so you are looking for an acceptance of this policy tonight and we would do that with there was i think there was one that was one more comment that sarah brought up about the other one of the key aspect of the trigger it says there exist one or more individual accounts with greater than time thousand and so that's another piece that needs to be reworked because one into one individual could trigger the tax sell for everybody who falls into the into the into the well if we've taken the five thousand dollars off i'm just going to rework that to make sure of one sale doesn't necessarily trigger what you're talking about so there's so there's an additional update that other than what you need numerated which we don't know what is going to be done or what it's go shouldn't be adopting at the next time because we'll have be saying something new not just these two things that i talked about will have this third thing right that we don't really know what it's going to say i can read greek could adopt that it is and then modify it again later maybe that's  the way to do it unless you have an idea to solicit it when i got started my suggestion would be that the second clause would would allow us to have a if we don't have a toy if we have less than three percent let's say we have one or two accounts with large balances say over fifty thousand dollars that we could pursue just those over that threshold and it wouldn't trigger a tax for everyone but if we had some some large accounts and i think fifty thousand dollars might be a reasonable threshold there we would initiate a check so just for those second well or can we could look at and we can review it again that april second right and then adopted at a subsequent meeting list i don't think there's a is there we can adopt it on the second even with this trying to figure out why we can adopt it on the cycle i guess if we know what changes are going to be in there that we ask her to go update then you can do that right we could make those changes tonight have a good sense of what you're doing tonight and serves and bring back anything substantive that we haven't thought done second it could be adopted then so if you're going through it that thirty thousand dollars is kind of the final question mark and there's ok with that if we give her the marching orders the direction to come back on april second with the question and would be she's here again we adopt on the second and then the meeting at it and you meeting as soon thereafter as possible to do to begin the formal  the length clause would strike the five thousand and it would be the fifty thousand threshold fifty thousand dollars threshold for for tax sales if for  planning for community discussion about firearms ordinance and i think with us tonight we have jennifer now are very welcome yeah if you could join us up here we see you coming on tonight and cold night yes they did you want to kick it of about it and most recently viewed put out and are a few several months ago had some responses and the board has accepted an offer to work with jennifer and finalize some of the details of the plan about what exactly the facilitation project should look like some the goals that you want to come out of this project and just kind of work together to figure out how to best move forward and get to the residents ok and your you have the  irms ordinance action update that the chief did ok so he made several divided the area into some sections and then have some potential options for  gn firearm discharge ordinance changes perhaps in the zones and it was really helpful to hear the voices of the community and which ones they would consider appropriate would have a better idea that they think would be better for that one that would be a bit ok too but we really do want to bring in the voice of the community to help decide what options to go so i know you have lots of tonight well i want to know how much room i can take up for not take up give twenty minutes do you have less than that of about twenty minutes would be awesome for every one thing ok so i have a couple of questions i just to begin with and it doesn't preempt questions that you may have because it's also instruct some of the ways so my future questions so this is a give and take but i'll start with in the interview one of the things i was really looking for was some clarity about what the purpose was the objective for these forums because it can get around a little bit and it's going to be really important to define it front not just for me so i know what my job description is but also for the public who's participating so that you can manage expectations appropriately and manage time appropriately because i am very aware they've been through a couple renditions of this already and i want to be careful to learn from those lessons incorporate them into the the recommendations there's two memos that i was paying attention to one was from two thousand and sixteen to time between sixteen and the second was the action update february twenty seventeen which i think you have in front of you so the difference between those two is  while they build on each other but where you haven't the in your bid for a facilitator was that the new outcome should be based at least in part on the options presented by the chief which makes sense i'm wondering what the hasn t has been so far in proceeding options to date you know what's gotten in the way that well there is a series of options that range from no discharge to allowing discharge of different types of firearms in the hope was to be able to hear from the public because there's it's very passionate will say rican call it polarized you know something some camps that are very passionate about their positions and we wanted to be able to have some professional to help us have those discussions to say here are the the recommendations are as options for these different areas from the chief what with what is a community believe is the right option to be chosen for that district you  know or is there an option that's not listed there that they think would be better that they came up with and that would be they'll be fine too i think jennifer's asking because there have been other exercises that have come up with recommendations that there were not actions taken on those recommendations so how do we how do we frame the so the what comes out of this actually leads to action yes exactly right so my understand that there's a bit of a history there's at least been taskforce that's worked on it recommendations that came out of that and then revisiting and looking at how did other towns figure this out and getting some information and background and also just gain some information specific e and still with those options i'm wondering what is the missing step between getting those options laid out and then making a decision for them because that will help me figure out how this process positions itself so for the public to give you feedback or input on those options as presented but there's also a flavor of part of what you're saying it's looking for them to invite some amendments to those or to create something new and those are two really different actions and they probably require a different sort of decision making process one ends up being more of a negotiation than the other and the decision then rests with different parties or the weight the decision with different parties so that's what i'm trying to narrow and hone in on are you looking forward to that other recommendation of those those other processes not land because there wasn't either buy in or clarity about the decision making body are you looking for this group to be to renegotiate what those options are etc does that make sense one sided and for for a variety of reasons so we want to be able to have one of recommendations that the the chief proposed or at least these options and have both you know the whole both sides or or more sides be able to weigh in on it hopefully equally to come up with choosing an option ideally for those differences owns that they could live with you know probably not anybody will like but can they live with it as a group and helping you facilitate that i just put the option out there that if they have something that's smart or that i'd hate to say you know no we can't consider it but if but the chief did put some thought into those options but it's like you know if they could choose those one of those as a recommendation back to us and then of the up to us to make the final approval say how we're going to go thing you're looking for this process to create a recommendation that then you can review yes yeah because it's our decision as to if we're going to make any changes or what changes that would be would really like that to be a very informed decision by this community conversation that we're looking to you to help ok so men ask us again it probably is going to feel like there's some words i'll try to be as clear as they possibly can you can get information to inform the decision you make by trying to figure out what are the different opinions out there and what are the concerns and you can make a decision based on that or another tax to take is to say i'd like a task force of different representative folks from who look at all these different stakeholders and interests and for them to really hash it out again and figure out looking at these options what are the reservations where are the cautions where are the proposals and then for that group to do that hard work of really reviewing and discussing and questioning and reality testing and then bringing that recommendation to you so that process would look more like a dedicated group of stakeholders representative probably in definitely doing work with public outreach but really a smaller group that is more committed to processing all that information before it gets to you first as a public process that might look like public meetings followed by a public hearing which is more of what's described in the second memo and that's more getting some input so that people can weigh in and then you as a  deciding board review that evidence and make a decision based on it so when i try to figure out my job description that's what i'm trying to figure out which way you're leaning because it would be mayhem and chaos if i went out and and got in a lot of public participation input but then didn't have a group that was dedicated with time and attention to really figuring out a negotiating what kind of a way that different input you know so knowing that i don't expect you all have the same answer on that but it is something that before i can begin work i need to figure out what sort of product you're hoping for at the end of it and what role you want to play as a select board it's a fair thing and i think where i heard you say max was the gap previously was that the recommendations that came in it was perceived or it was it was perceived that they didn't represent a holistic view of the community so that's the gap that we're trying to overcome that's like to have a community conversation about it not just of one side or the other but rather both in a controlled environment to say what could they live with yeah you want to see from all the different views out there and there are some that are affected by the drug geography but there's probably also interests maybe even to have a wider view for example management of the deer herd as an example of maybe not a resident view but another interest is served in that too graphic area so getting mad input again trying to figure out what the role of the public is is it to inform and give be putting in  opinions or is it actually co create a proposal recommendation or yeah i guess i guess i'm not in favor of having another task force because we've we've done that and i think will be looked at looked at is they're doing another task force and i guess the question i have  interviews i apologize for that i was off the kitchen in jamaica the question was i wasn't it wasn't sure if you were expressing a concern that one way versus the other would work better i don't know that there's i think it's a matter of your intent and where you want this process to begin right through the oh i view as i view that i would like to view this court as the ones making the decision is where we're going we're going to go and i don't i don't and i'm not i'm not saying that because i don't think that as a citizen or resident or stakeholder taskforce would not do a good job i just don't want to go look like we're going backwards maybe i said but here's another way to think about it then rather than thinking about is going forwards or backwards or good or bad think about you know how does it serve you to use a task force how doesn't it the ways in which it serves you is that there's a dedicated group of stakeholders that represent all those different views and they really have to reckon with those views in order to come up with a recommendation it's time intensive well facilitated it's a little less time intensive and if it's just a group of people without someone holding that process  because it is hard to do both those roles it also serves you because there's a real difference between who is collecting the information and who is interpret the information now it doesn't serve you if that recommendation isn't then utilized and used or if that task force doesn't represent views the views it doesn't represent serve you if there's not good boundaries around that work either so some of that is weight i can carry and should carry as a professional facilitator working at process and some of it is really just a decision point so if you want to look at the other option of more public meetings and looking at these options to get information and see what kind of how they are received there will still need to be a body that's assuming the role of interpretating the public participation that results i can make those forms happen for you and happen really in a vibrant and gaged way but what i can't do is interpret what happens and then present it to you because then i'm in danger of copying the process just like any other process that came before so again right so that is a little bit more efficient that process it serves you in that way it may not serve you if that's not the role that you want to take or if you don't have a town entity that can do the interpretation i'm not trying to sign you up for either one or the other is and it might be a question really about energies and how you know different individuals who've been through this before and who might be available both from the public and from different interests to sit on that board taskforce or that committee whatever your title is for it i have confidence that with your skills of getting the best from the people that are there that we could that we can parse that i agree with andy i think i think it needs to be think i worry i worry about the composition of a separate board and wondering and concerned about the possibility that we could get back into the same type of dynamic that was there before where one group feels marginalized or outnumbered or shouted or whatever the case may be i think i'd like to think that we would be able to do that that we would be able we'd be able to handle that will do i do have a question of clarification if so how much time do you think it's like what has to do that  when you think we try to estimate how much time but how do you imagine that i haven't put a timetable to it the one thing i can tell you with one hundred percent certainty is that we need to get after this issue now because there was one tragedy and two near tragedies and we still haven't got enough of that center and to my way of thinking i for one just speaking for myself i'll put in whatever time has to get put in to get this right because i'm scared to death that we're going to that somebody is going to get hurt and we're going to get sued that's what other stassi have some legal interest that you're trying to protect and just at this end that's part of it the longer i don't want anybody to get hurt yet the longer this feels ambiguous or doesn't have a decision you feel like there are people who can make informed decisions either about how they're using their space or where they're going and using their time so if you are thinking that the select board would be the the body that decides that you know maybe what you're looking at then just to give you imagination on is more like a focus group kind of activity where you are getting a series of different meetings to get input and you're using those focus groups to be as informed as possible about what all the different angles are and then it takes some time to parse that out and make meaning out of it a task force would do that or the slight board then as you're saying would assume that role if what you're worried about is co opted by one interest group or another one of the things you want to think about is if you have a task force or if it's the select board how do you make sure that all those interests are represented in interpreting that data  and you might end up doing it by trying to figure out what's the majority of what i've seen it's not a perfect science when it comes to focus groups so there are some ways that can serve you well and ways that might some not serve you as well to so i'm probably in a little bit of a unique advantage because this is my last look we're meeting so i'm not i'm trying to stay like very neutral in terms of you know the role that the slipper is going to play going forward but i have a little bit of a concern if if the the role that's going to be played by jennifer is collecting all this information and then that information is going to be handed off to the select board and the slip board may or may not have a process to really work with all that information and get to the to the recommendation and if that is your concern you know facilitation can be that process as well right so you could build that into you have the facilitator facilitate that group process just like you would any other this feel like there's like a like a conduit that has to occur because otherwise i think what you're saying is know you would facilitate the process of getting the input from the public and others and then you could but you don't want to interpret the data but you'd be willing to then facilitate the discussion of the citizen makers of how to get to a decision based upon what was presented i think that's possible i do think what it requires if you go that route is having some representation from decision makers at some of those forums so you do get some firsthand experience i th observation yes the way it's done in the past when i've gone out to do some of that feedback and get that there been if it's a committee that's making that decision one or two those people will attend each focus group and it's because the is sponsible for working with that data in some way and it's not real if they're not in those right right and it's not the same to watch it on video no offense to jail seventeen but you have to be there and you know you have to experience it also not  necessarily participate in it because that presents another challenge different challenges depending on the personalities in the band whether or not that still allows for good information to come and go right that a question i think that's all it's all options and a process design and i would throw this out that you know being new to the organization news a community i would want to make sure that the processes that you design are as inclusive as they can be to all sides of the argument that it be an open process that people feel that they can calm and be  heard on either side or on all sides of the argument so and that's the charge of a facilitator and that people feel open and safe that they can do that in that setting and once you get all that obviously then you have a process that i think the select board could then work with to be able to make that decision and to use mike's to get off the di suggestion that there's public meetings which create that forum for people to be heard and not just feel hard to actually be heard and also get some information as well potentially followed by a public hearing which would be a process where there's a little bit more formal commenting period even after that so a public meeting allows for more dialogue and give and take and then the public hearing might be a little bit more structured i don't know if you have those or if that's a routine part of your procedure every four you make any changes to that we would have public hearings once we figure out what it is we want to present as modifications to it then we'd have to have public hearings i think maybe if you are if you have some of that comment in process built in to adopt it we do and i think the last component is earth some thoughts is there's just a segment of the population is just not going to come out to a meeting but maybe has another ability to provide their thoughts and feelings in some other fashion whether that's a survey whether that's an internet portal of some sort but they're just  people that are just not going to come out but they have but i have to say you know life is full and there's different reasons for feeling like you can't quite get there so if you're looking at feedback and focus groups you probably are also looking at ways of bringing up for example maybe a couple of events that are look more public meeting oriented you might have a couple outreach focus groups to certain groups to try to get that feedback in places where people already feel intuitive and they know they can get people there you can always have remote just like i joined you for the interview remote for folks you can get on a webcam and feel comfortable doing that but not everybody does and you can also have a comment in our survey where people residents have their name and contact information to try to keep that from getting so anonymous that it's no longer helpful to you maybe i'm wrong but a picture a separate groups targeting different people to focus on their interests but that wouldn't necessarily get people in the same room and sharing their opinions and i from what i've heard it's in the meetings that everyone's concerned about safety is just what's the appropriate way to best way to do it so i'm just wanting to do the focus groups is there still a way to kind of create some dialogue between those max called the two different passionate sides on this issue well there's always ways you know i actually don't consider focus groups it's that specifically i think you can get creative and think of it as a series of meetings designed to get as much input as possible and definitely targeting some groups because you need those interests to be represented some people are going to do really well in a discussion format because they can tolerate tolerate it they like it and they were a reason for being there and then there are other folks who for whom that seems intolerable and a little bit of a waste of time and there's just no patience for that kind of process but the input is still really important that's behind it so i don't necessarily see in that has to be one or the other or that those are mutually exclusive i think what you want is to get as much input as possible to inform the different opinions that are out there it might look like having an evolved frequently asked questions page or some sort of map visual th is showing different interest as they pop up so that people can see it can spark their thinking and they can add thoughts as they happen but it is tricky with a series of disparate groups to create that arc of understanding you might not get  k i want to write your very first question before you reframed can you must let me hear it so that it was what has been the hesitancy in proceeding with one of the options to date it's political will it's being threatened by people on one side of the  so it just has to be said because that's what happens we want to get it right we do what's right for the community and there are again lots of different ways to do that so if you have a task force they will also be sharing some of that the same pressures it doesn't necessarily get anybody outside of that pressure it's really trying to figure out of this process what's going to give you the most balanced ability to weigh the different inputs it might be the psych board it could be another town entity it could be a task force of different representations who are then working with their representative groups to make sure that input gets in there so you know i i hear you guys loud and clear that there is  about another task force but i think that for me what i hear in the benefit of task force is buy in from community members because they would be not putting in their opinion but actually helping to define the solution and i think there's definitely value in that but does that decision have to be made up front or can we have that information collected assume it's going to be the board that makes the decision but if we see the data that comes in and we think well maybe we do need to switch gears and get a focus group whatever you call that the task force there could we do it at that time but let's assume that we could do it it's a lovely question and i know you'd like me to able to say yes that's possible the reason i advise against it though is because every time i have a chance to work with a group it's a chance to start working with managing expectations and really receiving that information with great clarity about how it's going to get used and so people will change their contributions accordingly based on what they start to trust or not trust of me in that process and where they think the information is going to be going so i think it's and inviting a bit of mayhem if you don't have an advance and know what your structure is going to be it also helps me knowing my job description and the scope of work so in the simplest of terms if there are these different sections of the town have potential options as i mentioned before some have several options couldn't be as simple as prioritizing which ones would be the ones that rise to the surface of those options you know in prioritized you know order and then that comes back to us and then if we can see that you know number one is was the popular one by far that's a no brainer we don't need any help if it's one and two then maybe we need some further discussion but i think i mean how i always simple way just prioritize what those options  the community and it kind of put those in order for us to be able to make a change i know i here's i always walk into these kind of situations with lots of backup plans so if i'm going to walk into this one i think oh it could be so simple then hopefully it is and i know that i'm using fewer hours or costing fewer hours of the town in order to do that work rate for the group i'm working with so let's say you run through about a pretty simple priorities in process and you say in a public meeting you know here's the option here's the information ask as many questions as you want let's just see straw poll where what are the concerns or where's the then around yeah and maybe it becomes very simple so a task force then looks at that really says that was strangely simple or wonderfully simple and can actually really look at reality testing whether that's you or whatever the entity is can really test it and see and if it is that simple then it's a pretty quick it's a quicker process but if it's not simple then that group has been there at the very beginning to try to discern what are the nuances that are making it sticky so i just i don't know that i feel necessarily good about putting forth a process from the beginning that doesn't have the ability to capture if it goes awry or if mayhem ensues isn't able to work with it well if what goes around the conversations will come and go but if there's a real place where there's just a stall or some real concern i feel really responsible if i let that fester and been given a an avenue to work through so i would say plan for the complexity and if it becomes simple that's fantastic but if you i mean what if you have five items that you propose and you want to prioritize them and one  that's what you're wanting then my suggestion is that you do find a group that's dedicated to really doing that work because that's the only way that i get to really prioritize and do that kind of vetting just inviting as opposed to having even change but the actual nitty gritty work of looking at the ordinance and trying to figure out why on this geography or in that geography it might even be slightly different groups that care about those things and so the task force can then make some adjustments that way or you could collect that information and then that's what would get brought to the select board to see if we could work through it and if it looks challenging to a certain threshold we may need to have you come back and say you can't you can probably see my resistance right and the reason i see that i think that would be so so if you could assign an entity that's not a task for a specific other very clear and see that works alongside or that work and that might get you out of the bind i think working as a select board makes it tricky because it is all going to be  think your bill bill is going to be tricky and i don't know if i can draw on the sly part as heavily as i'm going to need to be able to draw on one and see for the planning and execution interpretation of whatever comes out of those meetings unless you want to have more informational meetings and say these are the recommendations we've got in there well vetted they're complete and i would like to get the public meeting and public input on where you stand those that's just a public meeting it's not doing anything new it's getting some information on what's there and you make a decision we're trying to get two or more sides to have a conversation to see what they could live with from those recommendations right from those options  you're finding common ground with the different the different sides all sides you know knowing that probably don't want they want to agree on you know this is good but rather what could they collectively live with looking at what they're coming if that is the process that you really want it's not creating something new it's getting input on those different options that are out there and getting some feedback on them there won't tinkering with the options because to do that really does invite the need for a more inclusive extensive process but the concern leigh the discussion input feedback straw them i was hoping this would be a new process ok so i'm going to here's what i'm such a sensing in the room i don't know your protocol as i know that there are comments that folks are sitting on i also have a couple of questions that might clarify some of these pieces here so before you rush towards a decision there's a little bit more ground to cover and if you have a chance to get just very briefly what the thoughts are in the public that might be helpful but how do you want to proceed well let's hear what you have and then we connect with you we'll come back to us question of determining the public participation ok whether that's consulting or involving i do then wonder i to identify the decision makers and the partners in planning right so who is my go to person to help with the planning figuring out that i've met with all different parties who are interested in speaking identifying stakeholders etc that same entity in part host the form i'm wondering who is the host or you know who actually holds the meeting and might be the entity might be this like board might be a task force i'm also wondering who is still available to speak to the prior efforts either in consultation with me or is part of a meetings that i can get a little more of the history about the ins and outs and the stumbles were and where the celebrations were i do need to establish a facilitator role potentially not at this meeting if you're still deliberating but before i actually get to work so that i can very clearly tell people what i am avail  for and what i am not available for and that's that people can choose what to disclose to me and when you know i have from mediator fields where every company whatever people give me i hold in confidence i don't relay those comments so i will certainly hold public meetings and commenting processes where people may contribute their material but i'm not going to be gathering comments and speaking on behalf of anyone and people really need to know that both to manage their time and mine so that i'm not fielding a lot of comments either on my own time or another time that that won't get used so make sense and then finally the timeline and just trying to figure out how will folks i know there's a lot of interest in this how people follow the progress is there a town page for example that people can look at to check out the series of meetings or the frequently asked questions or developments that cetera i know it's another task but it's just it's one of those pieces where if there is an entity that can be responsible for doing that then it it again helps to manage expectations and also makes it really clear where to engage when people want to so that's the roadmap of things that i had on my mind sure that the folks who are responsible for enforcing any of those ordinances are sitting on that group that the different stakeholders there's at least one of the different interests represented there different geographies and residents i know that you've talked about different in the map there's a couple different areas to make sure that there are point people for each of those interests who can then be present for getting information and also be present for digesting it with each other to figure out how it all works in concert it may or may not be a clear recommendation that you get but at least it will have been vetted through a group that had all its its a fuller intelligence about how many people typically would you you know you have to go select them i mean yes they they need to be recruited and then they have to be committed because if you want them involved throughout this process and you know if you like a lot  doing what i want to do i'd really like to get back to to making a decision for the greater good but the you can't just accept the bread winners because the record he said you could have this this this this or that here you  this this this right so you have to choose you can't you can just up it's own leadership we would and that's your decisions i'm hoping to be able to get from the community to help us say from these decisions that he you know the police proposed to that is very clear and if you want to do that i am wholeheartedly behind that too it's a very clear role of saying i'm looking for input we have the options i really want to get as much input as possible on these options and if some comes back and it's not clear then we're going to have to deliberate and say hey we did you know the buck stops here and we got to make the best choice week and with the information we have we can't just do nothing it's been a long time so is it feasible for any public comment that if there is a hope or a thought out there on this process is there an opportunity for that this meeting or are no so right now house as the question again please i'm sorry yes i know that there are if there is any thoughts about what this public can see why we wouldn't start with a perfectly good report that we had that went nowhere but health i don't mean that you support exactly to say and to help the with with jennifer's help to prioritize of those recommendations which one for you know and that's kind of work because i think i think for just speaking for myself i think that number one it doesn't reinvent the wheel number two we get current information because that's been sitting for a bit and over three it puts the responsibility of that solution with us where i think it belongs in the other comments well as what i'm understanding is that jennifer can get people to come in to weigh in and speak to that she's recommendations but after that input is made and had someone's going to have to take that input turn it into action whether that's you or different focus group i think what i'm hearing from jennifer is that she can't let by some miracle ten thousand people show up and participate in this and they all we're trying to do is is next step to say let's get the public conversation going to help us make a better informed decision of what which ones to choose for these different areas and that was actually part of the chief's recommendation to go into that  i misunderstand that you would not be able to collect that and then work with us after week gather the public comment did i misunderstand i can facilitate your your machine but i can't give you i can interpret that right happened at those meetings right now right you could bring the information back to us about what was said that's that's so interesting many many things will be said series of events that don't all look the same so your participation will definitely be swayed by who is available who shows up and you can say all of those people who participated here were the reservations here were the you know or the pros or cons and it might look like a list format of what comes out of those meetings absolutely i can bring that because it the group generates it what i can't do is say to you you know i think i met with about two hundred or three hundred people and my general sense is that about two thirds of them went with option b and that that kind of interpretation i won't be able to give with with that approach though because again we were going to make the decision ourselves without that information they were trying to says let's at least get some information from the public in a in a controlled way that we can then use to help make a more informed decision for us knowing it's not going to be a perfect process very well i mean it's fine if you're if you're again i think it's about just clarifying your objective i think what you're looking for is  information but you're not a story looking to involve people in the decision making you're looking for feedback input right because we're going to make the the decision but we'd like to make it an informed decision and that's why i want to take the regulation from the police chief to say go and get that meeting it always has to be an open meeting and it's time we're working together yeah it would be an open process absolutely mind if be a larger room yeah yeah it'll be a lot of people want to want to be there yeah i want to open up to the if there's any comments from the public if you just raise your hand say state your name and try to keep it limited if you wo hunters of course and if it was me and it was my decision i would err i would side with the police chief those folks he's got that job and his job is to protect and serve so want to the furred of the people that understand how best to do that and he's for it recommended certain things let's gather the public input one meeting your mediator let's mediate let's find some common ground if that's not possible at the meeting make the decisions you take what's gathered in your way these things and you make a decision you don't want to task force that there's not too much to talk about we know that the that the harm and the major damage and the potential disastrous stuff that can happen with guns you know let's meet at the high school have an open select board meeting gather the information if it's not me if you can't mediated if that's not possible these things are too impassioned and there's no common ground but there always is there's always common ground and i think that can be reached if there's too many are we asked in that question or in the easiest thing to us forces no discharge anywhere and that's just not really not acceptable right now with you then it becomes a geography based facilitate a meeting but let's not make it so verbose and try to still it to a point where i know it's a sensitive issue and i know there's a lot of sides and i got a lot of redneck friends and love you know however you know but let's err on the side of protection here we are in a metropolitan area pretty much i mean this is not the rural essex i grew up in for fifty years it's genius but we're going to talk about how to  i've been researching the retired i only work in the summer with attorneys but i've been researching for a long time so if you want me to be on your task force in any way that i can help i will i have not lived in like him fifty years twenty five years right across from saxon hill like he does now there's ten more houses by him i just moved here two years ago the only reason i moved here was because of this sign it's a thirty mile an hour speed limit says no shootings on on what is the law is this thirty mile an hour sign at the beginning of sex and health road that i first noticed when we bought close to our house and they are the no shooting sign underneath when was that put up so legally and finding out when the sign was put up is it forced did the police chief that's now gone who made this wonderful paper enforce it and if not if it is a law we want  to these meetings so before you decide if you want to i mean a task force is a great idea but there's so few of us that are on the side so i just wanted to warn you even if we went to the high school that we could be hunters twenty maybe would be a lot but  veterinarian in town was going to come and she couldn't miss for years but i think i'm trying that's very process related which is that i do think there's going to be a lot of different inroads and points that definitely are linked to trying to figure out what the ordinance needs you mentioned a few each mention a few and it's complicated because in some ways it's always going some things are negotiable some things are not it goes well in this particular discussion and so my hunch is that that's why this becomes tricky to mediate in any particular meeting it's just too complex and there's just too many people and there are some people who come late to the conversation and some early but i do think for those of you trying to figure out what your process will be that even a public meeting can search can still address and answer the kinds of questions that are going to come up a task force can also process of the questions that come up so the question again is do you want to just in fact get information and input or do you want to create something new because as look like two different processes and i think what you're saying is you want input and feedback and you want to get good information so people have different questions or they come with genocide or then deliberates with what results along and you should know that my grandfather was john rice who was killed by an accidental discharge and i think it's past time to do something about it so i'm glad that you're you know taking the time to consider it i think if we wait longer i think you can help and so i think it's important to really think about ways to finally do something about this issue but in terms of what i'm hearing i'm really not very encouraged by the process i think you know ultimately you're not really looking for a public decision you're looking for a decision amongst yourselves so i do think that especially among such a contentious issue i don't think that you're really setting yourself up to really create a public consensus so i'm not really sure what this process is really going to achieve i think maybe a series of public hearings to understand that considerations are important but i mean beyond that i don't really understand the process where you get some sort of organic decision in such a polarizing issue without a clear method for delivering a unified decision even if it's ultimately on you i think it's important to educate yourselves but ultimately i think you need to take responsibility for this decision as a group the little confuses this whole thing to me there's a lot of decision that was put on by the chief things happen could things happen who knows but we need to look at the whole broader side of everybody yes and ball this not just saxon hill it's not just lost nation road it's a big part of  x and there's a lot of people that come i want to continue on with their rights were there on their property big farms in the small smaller areas what happens also to the people on i guess what was lost track here which i talk about how to say so how were you so how do you go about it so i guess i think i think everybody still needs to get involved there's a lot of options out there whether it is money with you do with a rifle whether you do it with a shotgun with you do it with the ball there's a lot of options out there but none of this is mentioned in this form where i have seen it's all shooting what about the shooting zones the or the places where people target practice and all like i said sort of a lot of opinion and i'm not sure how you want other didn't get something in school and get people there to voice their opinions and  there or for some kind of questionnaire second be sent out in some form like that so everybody does get involved with it whether it's of mail publicly or something like that the feedback from that too from all these different people you know we talked about that as one of the one of the tools to get that information in my heart i just don't feel that the objective of the select board is safety first defined possibilities and having a public vote i mean again we put it out there to the public for them to vote you go cast your ballot there you know and then this whole process is done right just put it out  tree and there's a bullet that only goes forty yards and you can hire them for your own yard if you're not on one acre to keep mattie your garden there's got to be some solution so that safety is first that's our town wants safety first we're trying to talk about how we're go is a medley of approaches is going to be helpful in terms of getting input but one thing that's really clear just from managing this job this contract point of view is that it is going to be important to figure out what kind of what's the level of participation that you want and who is responsible for making a decision and i as a as a facilitator won't be able to do all the planning so although it will take a group of people to help figure out where those groups out there that need to be reached how do you reach them some by survey some by meeting at the school others by meeting a certain groups we i think at one of the other times we were discussing what we talked about like some sort of an advisory team and whether it's a slip or the place that advisory team role or whether there's some other involvement but that's really what you and i need you know what we propose we do we get what i mean that would be your decision whether you feel you can take that role on or whether you need to engage some members of the public to play that advisory role but i think it's clear that that someone has the plate to make us take ownership and provide that advisory i'm not sure how you would choose you how would you choose that group and the buck stops with the select board i'm thinking that if we can get the information that you could collect about different options in the different areas that we could see if the data is clear enough for us to make a decision if it's i would think that we might have to do something in addition to that but i'm hoping that with the conversations that if you can get these to separate groups together to be able to say what they could live with maybe not what they you know is ideal but what they could live with there is so much that's possible one says conversations start to happen and i will need some who has some responsibilities there and some folks some people in the community from both from as a couple different interest groups that are going to cover of the variety of views because that's the only way to figure out what is an intuitive way to reach all the different voices who really do in or comments who want to send in whatever makes sense so you came here for some clarification and i don't think you got i got some clarification i got how big the issue is i understand how complicated as i get it it's hard as a celebrity even to figure out what tact is going to make sense and i understand that you'd like me to make it as simple as possible and as inclusive as possible so if i want to keep it as and simple and inclusive that i need to know who my go to people are so if it's not a task force it does need to be in phase or committee of sorts because i think working with the slack board as that body will be cumbersome thanks to hard i think it puts too much pressure on given the other things you're trying to do so maybe it's up to us to have a discussion about what that might look like and since you cannot have three members of the select board i would suggest one or two from the select board could be in one is maybe a lead in an alternate so that they're able to attend all the meetings it sounds like there's groups and i think while he is going to be very upset with me after my next sentence the chief of police or his designee needs to be part of that that you know and i know why be mad at me he's brand new in his business and he's got a lot of his plate but this is something that the former chief put together but he understands very well and then i think this group needs to come back not tonight with some thoughts of who would be in in that advisory and who is the staff selection person and all the and and and and and a few another sit down with jennifer with all of us today and determine you know website things some some thoughts and dates and then move forward and just keep moving this so it doesn't lose momentum so it doesn't you know you know i could almost imagine is going to you know not be ready for this upcoming hunting season but as a goal that is in place you know for so you know you have to you know announce it you have to get it out there as so you may not be able to get this on to season upcoming the fall but certainly the next one they're after is a bowl on so that you keep that momentum you keep your schedule and you keep moving into a decision you have some nuts and bolts in place some advisory committee a series of meetings and then that i know originally wanted to happen in a month probably to keep sort of that momentum you could have a series of events that are around the same period of time to build some synergy with at times you think people be available times and you think people can come out and that might vary depending on the interest so the next step then i think i'm hearing from you you're going to test to see if there's consensus behind it is figuring out who those point people are and when we'll connect again so that there can be some real clarity until then it would be really good to have on the website that it is in process and right now there's not a contact person for future comments because or if there is who that is i don't recommend that it be me at this point so some place where those ideas can come or requests i don't know those two things need to be put in place sooner rather than later and doesn't get into the mix i don't know how many different groups you're talking about so most start small with some of that group and try to put the thinking together of who's not represented here so far and then figure out how to recruit from there been allocated between salary and benefits all for except for four hundred fifty five dollars which would be to go to the human services grants to keep that one percent up to snuff so there's a line by line budget item dollars increase approved at town meeting be used to increase mine to fifty police salaries by thirty two thousand eight hundred fifty dollars mine to fifty one police benefits by eleven thousand six hundred ninety five and line three eighty three human service grants by four hundred fifty five dollars as a second any further discussion adopting the amount of the updated budget by adding the forty five that start on page one page two three ok and then for three to nine i would just say the straw poll vote failed delete the last three words and say to garner measurable support i just wanted to acknowledge i think that's good news that's  list we've got a couple of things here that are out one hundred percent and i'd like things like exploring this part of the conservation fund can can we just delete the things that are done now i will but i want to feel like i've been the first time it's one hundred percent ok got evaluating grants as you also see that we got a grant for our affectionate term of the super sucker five thousand but for people who maybe at home this is a very expensive piece of equipment it is about three hundred and thirty thousand dollars it lasts about ten years and so for the town and the village to work and get this grant and piece are shared equipment that we use it is is a savings and a lot of the effort plus with the stormwater grants that we go after in the road grant that we get to know that the staff is very proud to be able to go in and apply for those to get those snow and they're not easy it really does leverage our tax sources it's very much so we have to have that meeting regardless of whether it's on the schedule so this case it is but the schedules not approved yet so we technically don't have any approved dates to be on tonight other than i think our charter says that the first after june eighteenth before weeks before august sixth wondering if we should move that to the midpoint of the so that you have three weeks on either side of that because there's only one meeting in july but i don't know but again i don't know is again is is one thing right now to talk about this are we talking about it again and if there's an issue you aren't there two months of the year we were where we only have one meeting yeah the other one the other one is september and that's already at the midpoint between the two it's silly three weeks between he talking about is yes you only have one meeting but do you want it more in the middle so that there's less weeks to have there's two weeks before and four weeks after it in the currents that where it's currently proposed i would i would like to suggest that we move it to the sixteenth  the other the other is we also tend to skip presidents day and have the meeting during february school break the last one of which i  missed because it was school break because i no longer have kids that my wife and i are planning to go on vacation that week every year from now on so i will all will i will always miss that meeting if it's that if it's on that in come that way either it's not just certain so like more members i go on vacation so i think it would be nice to move it somewhere else is it if you move that i'm sorry if you move it you would move it earlier because then i wouldn't you know what i would what i would suggest is moving into maybe mid week the week before to avoid the holiday and also avoid the vacation week i made you know when zero thursday of that week if if possible i don't know what other meetings there are in that week but you know just that it's a good idea so that