members of troop five nine hundred fifteen that we read on a camping trip trip and to tender girl scouts are like trees their rich are connected because their sisters their trunks grow toward th in recognition of this one hundredth anniversary you have to come up here maybe your girls only come when the we propose here a proclamation of theaters township council washington county pennsylvania recognizing one hundredth anniversary of the girl scouts united states of america first commitment to building girls courage competence of character did you actually write this michael  whereas on march twelfth the first girl scout meeting was held in savannah georgia and was led by juliette ford a lot of that you girls know that oh my goodness wow ok i'm learning everything i'm saying i'm  learning where and since this first meeting more than fifty million girls who participated in the girls got moves girl scouts is the largest longest running and most effective leadership program for girls in the nation but the my name is michael banya and i'm here as the one of the chairman for the same benedict fish fry and i understand that my signs are not appropriate or in lin cardboard and plastic cardboard and they're with white signs with black lettering yes they're up for six weeks with a fish right i put them up and i take them down but i don't over you know utilize the space i just have a couple of the main intersections and i like i said i've been doing it with out trouble without anybody complaining for many many years i've been working with this fish crisis one thousand nine hundred two and this is the first time someone's come back and there's and there's a little one on the bottom that advertise the lunch but it's really stick with mr lewis it is the same as it's always been yeah i don't think the issues the sign itself i mean you know they're you say they're of white sand or black lettering with that the problem is that there are a lot of groups that would like to put signs up in it and i can appreciate that there is and you know when you sign one up this year i don't know about other members of council but i know i had two or three go through the township on a periodic basis and get people to take all the advertising signs down so it's really nothing against you it's nothing against them it's nothing personal but it's just we just you know we can't have need these groups that are now looking to do group fundraising and it's becoming more and more especially at the high school is it others can be a lot of that kind of thing so it what i would ask is as a resident i can agree and appreciate which what you said but also as a person that's running efficient or to vent i think we need to have some kind of guidelines or rules or you know it's directions because it's we need to get the information out i mean we are using newspaper i use social things i just it would be all over the dodgers what do i do for next year do i then petition like everybody else and maybe i'll get it maybe i want to or should i think that six weeks of fish fries is going to be an could stay up for a period of time if they didn't take those in order roselli try to share the opportunity if they don't go since week no not again i said they can only be up for here are the signs that we're talking about in a public aware there was some discussion regarding the telephone pole on the other side of what used to be to be about bridges and now the new biba bridge about it being too close to the to the road well just for the heck of a having nothing else to do so i retired i took a take measure and i went out and measured that and three other posts telephone poles the three telephone poles that i measured were located on the other side meaning headed toward the crossroads at the rolling hills country club the entrance to rolling hills country club there are three posts to three poles on the right hand side prior to the rolling hills country club the poles are covered by a guardrail assembly but after that they are not so i measured the distances between the between the white line and the pole itself was fifty eight inches now the disparity and i now looking at it it looks as though the pole is closer to the road has to deal with how much pavement went beyond the white line but interestingly enough my wife came up with a solution which i said how could display she says it's easy rock it's an optical illusion and you know she's right but what i'm suggesting is that in the future when something like this issue might come up it might be good if we have our employees go out and do the calculations and you measure ments apparently the measurement was made by pendatang and this just might save us a little five thousand bill in the future for some other person thank you think you know the perception is you're going through the bridge to the opening of the bridge is significantly wider than the current way of the road that draws attention to litigation paul we're moving  preparation tent to bring in food to the degree and opening event and they do have three extra parking spaces beyond what they're required to have so th i did have to comment on and i think it depends on purpose because it's a homeowner is our land owner is trying to improve his stand not necessarily for a state you know they're going to mark the initial trees anyway i think it's a question of the purpose so having it in there probably makes sense is the only thing i do have a question about when i was reading through here you talk about negativity in the residence do we have a pulse on the actual around the perimeter that is why that there will be forcing for example how would someone now that this was going to happen next door to them were all there in the group in a written letter ok because it didn't i didn't really see that in the body of here and i didn't know whether it was reference their property if there is an opportunity to do so i can appreciate what mr kerry saying about you know in trusting somebody when authorities but we do that every day with developers the developer develop a plan he wants a run up now about whether or not he should go to a public hearing and there were a number of residents who came forward about issues related to this i would think and we could do it shortly before meeting and just allow people to  conceptual and as i said it an early draft and the the arguments bollen who are general categories that the enactment of the legislation is unconstitutional exercising the powers because it doesn't take into consideration the particular rights of individuals with respect to the use and development of the property that secondly that the act is constitutionally mandated protection of the environment by usurping the township's ability to effectively regulate the location of facilities that have significant potential environmental impact and fourth that it violates the concept the separation of powers insofar  the misspellings planning code that this aca appears to totally disregard as to how we are to reframe our ordinances if we're to come into compliance with this act lead to be honest about his over this case and decided at this point i can guarantee you by any means of support with except that and i do believe that there is we have to act with some haste with respect to this because preclude the mandate spec to what we are compelled to do in the very short future and then a permanent injunction against the actual implementation of the act so that they are outside of where this the next few weeks it's amazing that that the townships do not believe previously did not understand the magnitude of what is being imposed upon them by this absolutely onerous piece of legislation indeed as part of the four categories of mr johnson mentioned it definitely super g h or absolutely takes away our ability to zone and plan it does they say it doesn't preempt the talking points from the folks at harrah's for that's not true it does and it would be very seriously impaired the ability of this township of friendships in the state to plan their zoning you will definitely detract from property values it's just as a taking a in every sense of the word whether it's legally qualifies as that but it leaves it amounts to that and if somebody if it says for purposes of people who are maybe familiar with that if you can find a place to put a  you on the gas range you've got it there's nothing we can do to prevent it and you know you figure put your own pad is four acres or whatever they are they're going to take up four or five acres if you look at a map peters township for example and look at all the spaces that would be five acres or so that's almost half of the township so think about that and we have no way of stopping it this is a way easement build a gas line across the front of a piece of property i mean that just basically cuts off that property from any future development you know that's our source of revenue is development attention like this it's a problem and we do have the fi that's what we're looking forward to the moment and interesting that we're finding a lot of support in the eastern end of the state they say because there's no more so a shareholder you know why would they be interested in this they've just discovered that this applies to  the i agree with the gentleman what they've said and i'm i've supported it from the beginning i think the other problem for me is that this is just the beginning of what could potentially become  much more broadly controlling approach to various industries you talk about development residential development you know right now they're giving over free rein to gas and oil development well when other developments or other businesses begin to look at it who's next i think it's a slippery slope i think that we counsel supported what we needed to already at sporting i'm told we actually have a budget we need to fund i think we're committed to go forward w looking at periods that would be impacted it would need to be changed and i don't see any reason their view that we could start looking at that if you haven't already we can sort of what we already do looking at the comprehensive claims says theoretically we can say we're evaluating that along with everything else i did get the impression that mr sebastian thought we should at least begin to look at what may need to be changed so that we don't end up in a you know we're one hundred twenty days which puts us to mid august but if you're which is what the school district is using up at p v field at this point we're still analyzing the bids and the vendors to determine who would be the best bidder and the best  product and we hope to have that at the next meeting the other thing that's still in the works is waiting for an agreement that we sent out to the soccer association i believe they're meeting next week to act on it  is considered equal so you can that you can give any one of those three there's now for for some reason we determine the one product is not adequate and that was to change the homeowners do you have any literature about that about why the different products she just mentioned might be different products here we are we've we've got out of we've got a lot of samples we met with a lot of different companies architect probably could provide a report on that yet actually his not ready for the beginning of the season regimes i would believe we probably need to also sit down with the union to look at any issues that may be involved contractually and go from there  that be to to me or to council or an outside group i personally would not be in favor of an outside group like that that has been one issue raised the other issue those are issues that have been raised in past well i mean it's my understanding and you are very correct me if i'm wrong but if there is a complaint there is a policy which we have in front of that department's investigation is by this policy chiefs responsibility to make a determination based on that investigation that's an internal police matter it's a disciplinary  were but we we haven't had a whole lot of compliance that's correct that's correct and we go that way i can't say that agree with gary but not exactly the way he said it i think there's a couple of issues with performance she has a responsible his job responsibility is to review any problem that comes out if it gets to that point i don't think we're looking to have anybody review every decision or investigate action that goes down but there's a couple things if if the if someone really feels that once he gets to the chief in the decision isn't good people should have an alternative review process and that's not for everyone or every little thing but i think people need to be given an opportunity to have talk to someone else i don't know what that means yet please i'm not proposing we put it out in public but i think they should be able to talk to someone whether it's my or its consuls of personnel review board from a performance perspective chief is responsible to do that investigations and everything else might responsible to manage him mike at some point should be reviewing all of these or mike's not doing what he's supposed to be talent if there's issues that need to be followed up on though should come to someone else from a performance perspective and i agree with you we have a good police force issues happen sometimes but we should the way this is written right now this is to think there should be another more clear process and people already know that process i just think it needs cleaned out and a few details put in place again so that we're following everything that we need to and that everybody supporting some of my thoughts is  i'm hoping that there's a protocol that that investigation gets reported to michael i think is this group we ought to be afforded whether it be in executive session or just in the docket that questions over what happened that might initiate a process to follow some of that but i carry a i quite frankly i don't agree with you at all we're going to set up a form of appeal process that takes the a process if if it is the feeling that there needs to be an additional look at it that that should be at the most to the managers i would say that its issues so you know those things get resolved there much of the information and magic is confidential information i certainly don't think that a public hearing is the format for a lot of  e i think we have a good system and it's as mrs merrill suggests we need to clarify the process statement a bit and find what's you know we can do that i don't see what needs to be fixed i don't think anyone complaints so there's a difference in my book i mean you can't have it both ways so you need to understand is an internal saying there's no question about that but you can also know the council is part of the internal system a or we're not outsiders or any stretch short no i don't think we're outsiders but i do agree with that there is now opportunity to say dissent tax needs further explanation for them to go to someone and i'm not sure again i'm not telling you that i know who that someone whether it should be a citizens committee or not but i agree with what you said we have a person our peals committee where an employee can if a policeman has an issue or anyone else has they can come forward just think that to change the mechanism i don't think it's going to make the system any better and the i would say that most of the allegations that are made or you know somebody who comes in contact with an officer thought she was there's a problem if there's something that's very egregious i mean so egregious violations you know there are civil rights acts you know people sue the police for excessive force or whatnot that happens all the time that's their right there are avenue may have gotten a raw deal or you know but it cuts both ways i mean it's you know the officer doesn't feel that you know he should be sanctions or discipline then you know he has the right to do to many issues there's not that many reports i would say that if the status and feels that there is vehemently and there be mainly concerned about a decision all i'm saying is that i think that we have other witnesses or there are other witnesses in the chief interviews them and he determines that the officer acted appropriately and now this guy school peale and asked mike to do what you're blowing it out of proportion i don't i think something to judge police procedure i mean we can read the manuals we can do that but you know how what an officer does is nothing that we're trained to do if it gets down to he  issue that i have a disagreement about i'm not a police person i don't know how to do police work but we're talking about something different we're talking about a management process we're talking about the chief is a manager the manager the sergeants as managers who are responsible to manage the people who work under them and i'm kinder report up to them i'm just saying that that in itself i don't know what kind of training the sergeants go through is force management maybe they get a lot of training about how to manage people but i i disagree with your comment because i think it's a little bit more than just police work when it comes to personnel management issues back and i will repeat again this complaint review procedure needs looked at this is first of all it you'd never have something with an update on it but there's other points in there so i would say that it needs to be updated at the very least and i i still maintain that i think that there's an opportunity right in a process that if something needs to be escalated there's an option i agree with mr curie there's very few i don't imagine there's going to be that much probably knows i was probably one of the people involved in one of these things no names they did me mention here's my problem i did have a problem an issue with a police officer and i agree with mr curie be extremely difficult but when i went through the process i was supposed to go through i went to mike and harry they were terrific but when i requested to have a meeting with the council members they said i can have my five minutes again but there was really going to be nothing could be done by then everything was by garrett so in this township i thought oh my gosh there's going to be another process other than that and there is and everybody knows there won't be many but there will be some to assume that you'll never run into this again and you'll deal with it when it happens and i don't think is wise i think mrs merrill was totally correct just revise that thing make it a little more current you know kerry has a really tough tough tough job he has to keep his police officers happy and he has to keep the residents happy that is a pretty tough thing to throw on one man's shoulders and if he had could say to his men hey it's got to go to the board we get what's going on there's a couple more people look at me i just can't cover your back everybody has to look at it i think that the way the department should be managed thank you thank you  hypothetical is not going to get us anywhere ok his point ok we're familiar with the incident but you know again you know when it's broken there's a procedure it was investigated and you know as as would did say it's not it's not that he would have been justified in shooting me and my friend ok i'm not saying i'm sorry so that doesn't justify i mean do you not think that citizens or the i can say that my police department i've never had a problem with it seems like almost every time i do appear such and there's some sort arrogance is a comedian there's a character flaw there do we interview appropriately i mean what are we looking for this is ridiculous i think that's kind of a run books eight fifty five we have all been down this kind of road before for most of the shell i would only like to say that i think it's reasonable to have someone or a few people independent thinkers that lie outside the police department that are in a position to render an opinion but the question of how effective is the thin blue line needs to be answered and i frankly have seeing the effect of the thin blue line and that can corrupt the people's belief in the efficacy of their police departments so i'm thinking that under certain circumstances in which an issue cannot be resolved to the satisfaction of the complainant if the complaint has merit there's the word you're looking for merit in his or her complaint and they should have an opportunity to bring that to a non biased arbitrator thank you probably i'm going to have hoc basis could very well be continually ordeal doing it that way i don't know that i'd be willing to go much further than blowing something along those lines i agree with rac i mean i don't i'm not a bla planning commission recommended they were ok with the two building signs because they were only less than half of what they would be allowed by word mince and they were ok with the menu boards they were not ok with the directional sign high in the adding the electronic variable message to feed since i was doing a complete author of the previous decision that went through mcdonald's a couple things that were the arguments since the ams have so much open space to them and argued strongly that it is an unfair representation of their golden arches and they're arguing that again they didn't get to first base w something i did have another question that related to that we had talked last time about the job descriptions in the personnel manual copy that icann has last updated in two thousand and seven were you working on that to personnel manuals for employees are usually updated on an annual basis this one was last updated on two thousand and seven we updated a couple of job descriptions r the goal is to be in a position to have three firms recommended and make presentations to council enable worse a personal action well i would just just an update on the energy on i saw that we paid them something just like you know where we are put the architectural treatment on there and there's still fencing that has to be done and i'm not sure what else after that but clay and once that's all done then once they're done working over the