and then i'm very careful about the master you'll see on that i think it's the bottom one it says master entrance to the building tom and i will be responsible for making sure the building is cleared ok thank you gen to review additions deletions or changes in order of the agenda items and our city manager would like to change in order could we please move the consent agenda up to this moment in time we have a if you approve the municipal planning grant application it must be signed and submitted by our planning director and zoning director by seven recreation impact the credit to the o'brien brothers agency and it proved the municipal planning grant application submittal which is due in twenty five short minutes public not related to the agenda there is nobody from the public the so i will take no comment so our next item is to have a little travel time we will be examination of the premises examination of the premises for the market street build out i guess and a pass three zero two two two absent pad just so you know tom is not here either but he's not calling in so you are here my boy here you're here you're not you're crazy please that's right so thank you for calling in and just so you know we also did pass the consent to gender ok did that early because i made him d approving the municipal planning grant application due in two minutes and so it was sent electronically with time to spare phase one has an entrance from door street and they're going about should it be a regular connection or should just be an emergency gravel road you know chain across or whatever so i believe it was continued  but there was a lot of feedback from the community there and from residents inside real phase one i am also a resident surveys one i voiced some concerns about the lack of a of a plan that showed a rec reunion of martha's vineyard for the martha's vineyard regional high school and want to shout out to all of my classmates things for having me and having a really great time so happens once in a lifetime if you can get there because all the bows were canceled on thursday trying to get regard to the culverts that have been put into place people are i think kind of an in front of you know has been put into market street or under market street and it was it was quite an impressive have engineering feat and i have nothing to report i think we're going to discuss the library for a few minutes and i attended a channel streaming first in live meeting coverage update and in several communities they're piloting i'm titling so they're doing that in the field so that those people watching can and will have a title so they know where in the agenda you are in the meeting so they're piloting that and they're also considering discussing figuring out how you can really activate or have meaningful addition to really allowing the public to interface and and participate in these public meetings that are taped and and they are taping the airport coverage even though they couldn't find the money as i understand it they just decided to go ahead and do it take the what the airport meeting ok i noticed noted with interest the full page comcast ad in the free press last week guess announcing their commitment to the community and how much money they've spent that's just in light of some of the of the court case yes for their appeal right there see i don't license rule that that irony was not lost on me either  and i just would no more probably talk about it with the library but the article in the free press today talked about the increased use of libraries and i know we've all heard from a member of the public any position and there are stories to which it's not only about reading books it's also all of the services increasingly that libraries take with regard to navigating social services or all kinds of things  that probably don't come to mind of you know they're right they're really important for the public y a joint survey committee which is the committee that is looking at regionalizing dispatch and setting up a union municipal district has continued to meet and we are in agreement on the what would in effect be the charter  that is being i'm just minor things worked out on it by the lawyers and then it will be sent to the attorney general's office for the attorney general to review if it comes back from his office with a green light then we're ready to bring it to the legislative bodies of each of the community for you to consider the agreement alternately the hope is that it goes to the voters that  approve it to go to the voters in march and so we along with the other seven communities would be looking to have a public vote in march on whether or not to join the union municipal district for regionalized or for  joint dispatch there was a what i thought was a dream we could press conference on housing last week and some of the articles tended to focus on the  following a little bit short of the affordable housing goal nonetheless the overall goal for an increase in housing to meet the demand exceeded goal the governor was there firstly anybody who you could think of  who's been involved in housing issues for the last twenty years was there and it was a very good press conference and really trying to build momentum to move forward of course it was hosted here on market street on the have we have an option and so and then talk about the rest of city center but other projects in south burlington as well so it was a it was a good way to showcase what we're doing top row into the affordable housing committee met this afternoon they have their new members on board so they're up and running and and i was not able to attend but larry michaels was there and later cut from and carol and some other folks so  we continue to work with the hospital our mental health those issues we now have a proposal from howard that i think i sent you did number we're trying to set up a meeting with howard for staff senior staff for next week all the chiefs have this document they're all going through it all the managers have it they're going through and we hope to have a consensus document that we can take next week to are sitting with all of our managers to go through their c i p's this weekend and next so there's a lot going on getting ready for the budget season so i've got to manage to mention that we had a steering committee meeting that we all intended to and yeah we got updates about the library and me not really an update but that high school will be considering or discussing funding for the elementary school and right that came to my mind too since i had brought up two meanings ago perhaps the response that we received from  plan i can hear you know ok and i think that as a council it would you know it would behoove us to support the schools efforts in order to receive the information that they're seeking and in order to be able to plan for the future so i hope that we can more than by the next quarter ahead of the next quarter meeting really keep close have the municipal contributions the request will be a very small increase each year rather than what we did last year as it was we doubled it and which is sort of a big chunk and just have it like some of the other services reese we receive like the transportation and water district or the ski valley park district they typically have a small increase each year so it doesn't get us quite as much rain of course it's up to the council to agree to that but that was the board's recommendation that that made a lot of sense to just have that thoughts and prayers and thank yous to law enforcement and the first responders and the work that they're doing in that community how horrific that must be to handle that as a community  and certainly to the families who have lost loved ones or been injured so i think it would be nice to just have a moment of silence to acknowledge that  thank you so now we can move on to him eight garden street phase one the williston road intersections and this is an approval to send out a in project update and ashley parker good evening or we'd warrior queen along with other things many other things all right thank you so in terms of updates to zoom in a little bit this is the intersection of white street in my drive and the main goal of this project is to make these intersections safer for cars  and i thought we had already negotiated that no the street so there's a little triangle that would go from street to something else to go to thank you so the there would no longer be an entrance directly from white street into the talking with property owners and go through that process so it's fine i'm not really an objection in fact i think it makes it safer to i think the entrance of the here and place being so close to that intersection and people generally are very polite and attentive to one another so they're generally is an understood kind of protocol that you let people enter and exit there well you're waiting at the light but nevertheless it is an unusual intersection right and some people go around the intersection to cut through that parking lot seeing the south side of wilson road again additional streets on both sides of the street which would improve the streetscape there and some more landscaping and new street lighting which would greatly improve  area section and shorter and safer crosswalk for pedestrians and bicyclists and again we would be including more landscaping and trees and the path would be wider than it is now straight ahead people have to wait for the there's a left hand only turn lane is too late for all this because you've already done your designs but every time i take that it's like i wish it was a right hand turn lane and there's a ton of room on that parking lot for greece sees that you know that to move their sign back but  it may not be deal of all you know but that is a tricky intersection at about you know seven forty five as is every intersection in our city that has high volume so intersections as well as other intersections along the road and dorset street and so that should free up additional capacity at both of these intersections as well so so we can certainly ask about that so do i just ask you do we expect the adaptive controls to be coincident with the construction of of this this design i would hope that they would come before construction also that might drive some additional changes if you use the adaptive signaling and you still have bottlenecks that you thought would eliminate or or help it's hard to know because traffic is always hopefully we'll have this under construction with either next year or the following year and that all of that will also create short term but certainly will require summary rounding up traffic during that period some time probably before we can really see but we do have the models and we can look at them and see what they say if a question from the audience  that is an update on the library moved to transitional space at the university and from our librarian is here to lead the conversation we also have a handout  things as we prepare for this move we have had a couple of months where this was kind of pending and i was confident that was going to happen so we took that time to start preparing collections and spaces so we've had thirty thousand items have passed through staff volunteer hands in the process of that one that she has experience doing big projects that i don't have and two that simultaneously be working on the architectural choosing the architects and talking to the architects about the park  we have not yet heard when things will be delivered and that the information particularly about the shelving is key to the timeline for the actual so i cannot tell you tonight when has been school based and he was shocked when we all got together to realize the schools have different contracts for software that a public library  software so it's really a team effort page is the best one i just kind of leaf through it is this the office space bathroom for the staff here on the far right so if you turn this towards you so that question mark shape furniture that coralie selected is right there you're entering from the mall to the stores had used that white walkway kind of as a runway to their specials  if you keep so on the left just as you come in is the circulation desk and right behind that there's space for the circulation librarian so that she can be aware of what's happening on the desk and be available for questions and for backup which is something we haven't been able to do in the space that we're in if you keep going near the end of the white trail on the left there is an office for me and for the adult services librarian and if you keep going all the way to the white wall and directly to your right there is a workgroup staff space for the children's librarian and for her part time assistant and volunteers as needed to get children services stuff done then in the back area we have desks for our tech services assistant and our circulation assistant and adult services assistant and that's where our selves will work when they're when they're there to fill and where volunteers will work so that's that stuff now the bathroom is not doesn't compact so if you go to there and a little square in the back left hand corner and that is a bathroom that is designed just for internal  use so those are those things you want the rest of the tour to shore up the back corner there in the top left top left is there's a mechanical room and then the small one is the bathroom bathrooms kind of in the cannibal room and then it's not shown on this picture but if you continue through the mechanical room that's where the loading dock is so all of our deliveries of books and supplies have to come in through that back door and that's an exterior wall of the mall correct the key was not available on the day that i was there so i have not gone through tour coming in you'll see book displays a lot like you do now highlight on the right is dealt fiction will have some lower shelves where there'll be newspapers and special collections that we'd like to highlight that haven't gotten a lot of attention where they've been for the last few years like beautiful oversize coffee table  vermont collection could go there that is yet to be specifically determined i haven't finished the mapping if you keep going down the white lane we have large print and maybe biography for adult biography if you turn left after the two round circle things there that's where the computers are so now we will have six dedicated computers for the public and they'll be using the software that we bought year to sign up for a one hour increments with an individual limit right now it's two we'll see if that works or whether we want to extend it to three just have to see what the use there those shelves on the left are nonfiction and there's a seating area that's also for charging in the down the and this is a little it reminds me of when you're on a merry go round and you're not riding the horses but you're on a little two seater two bench oh there's a picture togethe it's got like a canopy right like a carriage yeah i forget there are more pictures in the back up so that's what that is and will be interested to see who's who sits in it teams parents with kids grow up and then depending on that we may move things around a little bit we did get some shells on wheels where we could because we want to be looking towards having that flexibility in our permanent location as well so then as you go down we do have some seating in the front that's informal and it's also flexible so that double question mark can be taken apart so people can make smaller size smaller  more intimate seating if they choose to and then there are work tables in the front so because of where we've been so far people really accustomed to sitting at tables so corley and i had to really talk about that she's created a couple of different comfortable seating spaces which we want but not at the expense of having tables because that's what people are used to and some people really are spreading out and doing whatever their personal work is on tables so we've got the two tables at the front and the two at the back and then over to the left is the programming conference room and over to the right well straight ahead we  have avi so that will be books on cd and d v d s and then the funny shaped rectangle area is the beginning of the children's area and those pictures are not really reflective of what's going to happen meg and i are working with a volunteer who is putting casters on all of the book bins that she has in the children's room now for the picture books so that she can create that space however she wants to be easily right now it is more complex so all those things will be on wheels and she'll be able to create a space for the picture books that also maintains the integrity of the murals that question but i don't know originally i said can we keep the children's room exactly the way it is and move it over and just not have walls but the because the building is already long and narrow having that long and narrow just took up too much space so i don't know if it is but i think her shelving is comparable and then go into i think she said the room to be nine foot so one of the things that we just talked about today is packed in the right hand corner we have some storage where we're also putting a staff table it's the only brown table in the back right  corner and so we're going to put up a wall with a door there and consider that a small meeting room for staff so that i can have personnel conversations and things like that back there if i need to instead of making my office bigger and it wouldn't matter because you might still be able to hear over and and i have such a shy retiring voice that yeah ok so then the only other space we haven't talked about is right after the programming area on the left there is a programming storage area which is going to be really helpful for both adult and children's programs because we can keep some things there and just move in the back door to take them right in to whoever is waiting for them we do have a little sink back there so that's for cleaning toys and preparing water colors and also filling the coffee or tea as needed for the public programs so that's that's the tour and it was fun we had our staff meeting there last week or the week before getting everybody giving everybody a chance to see the space prior to that we had only been in there shopping for leggings look at those legs taking pictures  so this is the first time that we're all in there together the space was wide open and it was really fun because some people can visualize things in their brains better than other people but there were a lot of people who can see it yeah i can see that there i can see those things over there other people were running around with measuring tapes to try to really understand the space so we're excited about it and i ask you one of the might very well be the case so i guess my question is as you determine which books belong to the high school and which books are are yours i suspect you're also finding books that perhaps haven't been checked out for a while yet and so are are you in terms of making sure you have the space for the books that are in demand are you putting them into storage potentially in the new library which will have more space than this you could bring them back out or maybe you just retire them because no one's reading that or you have ten of that copy the demand just isn't there for ten right selection of books and  selection of books is a constant process in a public library and we so we we have criteria that we use and often there is a piece of that which is it hasn't been  long time and then we also complement where it's a reference that recommends core collections for libraries of our size so a combination of those two things is being considered when we're deciding which books we are keeping and which books we are not books that haven't gone out in several years are not likely to get more popular collection if that's useful to them i'm offering some to the friends of the library for their book sale and then others are being sent away to an online bookseller better  we might choose to delete them because they haven't gone out with the school has an option to claim that if they want to they just recently went through poetry and literature items for example have on other displays to put books out because we have a really fascinating collection but if you don't know what you don't know look for it and so you don't find it so that's a big and moving to a mall and having to increase our merchandising you know they kind of go together that's something that i've been very aware of when i've been going through the books is we really need to get them out so that people can i think that we're not buying that much furniture that it is a major concern for me coralie has selected the same vendor of furniture that she's used here in city hall and i think part of her reasoning is that it is supposed to last a good long time and it's also white bubbles with easy to clean so i'm hopeful about those two things i also think that these pieces of furniture are are going to be able to transfer to a new space without taking over the space because there really aren't that many pieces that are being purchased for this location there was a moment where she suggested that we replace our circulation desk for example and because it's not wired internally for various reasons it's it's not up to date and at that point i demure and said no i don't think that's a good idea because a circulation is a major design feature that we want to save until we have a permanent library that's not about condition that's more about about whether you can whether we can design around the pieces of furniture that we have so i think i'm hoping they're going to last if we've chosen something that doesn't last we would have to deal with it wherever we were you know even if we bought a new chair at in our current situation if we made a mistake and bought something that doesn't last we'd have to replace it or repair it but i'm hoping that because these were designed these were chosen because they were sturdy and because they create  on the internet library which was different in the high school is that true kids i don't think anybody's using barracuda at this point this that's gone it's gone so the school has filters so on their computers which includes the ones that to us are towards the back of the public can use and then we have deep freeze ok and something else on d the deep freeze will come with us but deep freeze isn't the kind of filtering that you're talking about your time out topical filtering and public libraries across the country use very little right yeah yeah so we'll have to i'm not sure what he's suggesting for that kind of filtering i know the city uses some and we just might have different levels of it in public library or wireless experience for the user of the new library should be less filtered than being in this high school library for wireless that comes through our comcast account so we should be the same it's only the wired computers in that back area that have the school filters i have another question to you but have you talked to people in the last few weeks on what my staff and i are finding is that people are coming in mostly with questions so there might be neutral on one side or the other a little bit but mostly with questions and that if we can have a one on one experience with them answering questions that the vast majority say that makes sense ok and that they're satisfied there are some people for whom that doesn't work but i'd say the vast majority are looking forward to seeing what happens in the new spa ok we'll go back to item a living which is a volunteer committee interview and we have to larry is we don't have your application but fortunately we know who you are you know something about you for some things for my understanding is you are interested or you have applied for the affordable housing committee is that right yes ok and and as you know i was on it at inception and then it was disbanded and i think it's been of that perspective and knowledge about debt not being in building for the housing i think you know i was in the meeting today they had a means that i stopped in for for the majority of the meeting and i think we're still with the is still grappling with some of the same issues we were four years ago and that's i think par for the course i mean i think we have a cop or the city has accomplished a lot the commuter compass a lot in that the trust fund in place and you know we've got c oopers coopersmith in on that and just doing a great job obviously we we have this view contributing to that as well i know basis so that's wonderful but i think some of the issues that serve and then you know what's a dollar amount that folks developers would pay in the event that they chose to pay for a unit of housing versus creating an affordable and those type of thing so we've you know those are the same same conversations we were having for three and four years ago so i'm really interested in trying to move help help to move this agenda forward i think you know the skills i  are my skills in development understand what it costs to do development work being a real estate but apart from that that's the sort of professional stuff me but i have this whole other side as a citizen of this town and somebody who really cares and have and bring it forward but i feel like i have the experience and more importantly the vision if you will to help expand affordable  other questions one might have you certainly are aware of the time commitment and when they meet and the structure of the city and you probably have as full a knowledge of what's on the agenda going forward as be somebody on the committee with longer term to get off and you could say i'd like commit to a two year three year term like i can't remember if there's any terms oh wait no i'm sorry i'm reading the wrong thing it's two three year terms so you have another year term that's and then we have another candidate frank davis who's not here tonight with larry questions i could sit here and talk for two hours about affordable housing but i don't think we'll do but i wish we could ask the question if you had if you could start from scratch you know it's like how does a society spread the housing out fairly so that everybody gets to have a place to live you know because his epidemiology you're talking now about ho using in securities is actually causes a lot of illness to do it with society so the question is i mean you have all these factors you've got cost of land cost of construction right profit motive and a capitalistic real that attempts to try to fill those four days and then government trying to do the filter that so that you get the right combinations if you could start over from scratch i just wondered how you could do that and then satisfy or at least but if it has a place here but i wish that discussion would take at least the end of because we're already at a point where we have this x amount of housing and y amount of need you know when that need covers a spectrum of incomes right and so then the question is you know it comes up to space capital and stuff so you know tim i don't i don't know how to go backwards but what i can say and what i what i do feel is we just need to be very flexible and you know work with developers and other stakeholders who are who are involved in this effort and you know yeah there needs to be a certain profit for people to be i mean it's not a big margin you know so so that's why when somebody says sixty five or so i mean look at what's happened in burlington over the past ten fifteen years and they haven't created a whole lot of affordable housing and i don't think that that anyone but the bullet to pay a one hundred thousand dollars a unit i don't think it's happened i believe that was confirmed today so i'm not to answer your question but i do think we need to work together and figure out you know whether it's setbacks whether it's location whether it's height whatever those things are that help to reduce costs so that then we can you know actually go forward to a developer and say hey can you bring something to the table here because we're going to give you you know it's  carrots not sticks so how do we how do we do that and i think we've done a good job and there's models out there you know we're in a very i mean there's thirty four homes on the market right now in burlington i'm not sure about cell phones and but it's probably not a lot you know i don't know what the average right now market but it's probably under two months so action rates pretty pretty fast right now pretty fluid so it's a good time to start to continue this discussion because i think affordable housing in the environment of a strong housing market it's more palatable if you look i think we need to we need to harness that now while we're in this market  something i really had to get some indication we will have to go out and advertise his or other applications you know if in the course of doing that we can advertise other things as well but but  advertise those as well so we need really the second time that you've seen this back in probably late spring we showed you this with a few other items on it which included the task  of the committees to work over the summer to come formulate their objectives and their priorities for the over the next year or so kind of removed to kind of pick up with tonight's meeting on october second with some major factors that we're aware of currently in terms of preparing budgets for next year look for your thoughts in terms of guidance on why nineteen general fund budget and on november third come to you with the proposed c i p which over the course of this next few weeks we'll be working with our real interest on to identify those items for the c the goal here is to have a final draft of the general fund budget and the enterprise funds to you prior to the holiday break and then come back in january in this case  and schedule additional nights as needed this keeps us in line with everything that needs to be posted and by want to meet our charter requirements and goes all the way up to town meeting even though we're not rude we're not really meeting with the steering committee until january twenty fourth my understanding is that you are working with their budget and we've each forwarded each other or the other night's instructions so copies of our budgets go through as well i think that's important the more we can work together with them all those in favor signify by saying i i i i i i'm also just to go back to the previous item housing trust fund committee also didn't have an so if we're looking for since we have one additional applicant for the floor of the housing committee maybe someone would be willing to do that well he's not like me just start by set on tonight's warrior you approved all that the disbursements for the last years selection and mouse that you approved for social services funding and typically those go out at this time of year and along with the check we so typically send the application form for the next fiscal year  you approve it kind of a year ahead so to speak but we're currently in the f y eighteen budget and we would be looking to approve expenditures for f y nineteen so we felt i have a summary of what was approved last year affecting our community that we have been concentrating on over the last well some number of years to include opiate addiction mental health issues and in some things very much closer to the public services in our schools and so on and we are able to support a lot of different organizations that you choose which amounts go to which but we're wondering whether or not the council wants to make a bigger contribution to the a handful of really key partners in addressing issues rather than multiple smaller  contributions we're doing a lot now with the howard center we will be acquiring specific services from them for mental health and better middle health counselors that's a program that we and of course they're treating up to a thousand people for methadone three blocks from where we're sitting right now an enormous problem of opiate addiction and  we we would recommend a conversation that you would have to talk about whether or not you want to concentrate on one or two major service providers plus the one or two local groups that really  have an impact what comes to our mind is packed but and make a bigger impact on one or two or three core providers so that was if there may have been one years passed and it fell by the wayside at some point but we have been meeting with united way and they have asked if we would start a new campaign with our but i'm in no way implying that the city treats for over responsibility for these funding to employees and i'm just asking that question because you know where i work when it was i b m we had a health and human services choice so i was just wondering if you know that it's great for every employer to be able to give their employees the opportunity to see the spectrum of all of the organizations and all the good they do and that education that might lead to making a photograph of what handed out pat and we'll also get you a hard copy of that tom has that list he handed it out so we'll get it to you and the forward as the chief sustainability officer and with the climate alliance decision that kind of dovetails with that funding for some materials for the energy committee in the work they're doing along with paul in terms of that sort of thing we could use some funding in that of course we're in the middle of the budget cycle so it would have to come from something else  recommendation as it was presented to you was to shift funding from three organizations that we have historically supported the chamber g b i c and the convention bureau and move that approximately ninety six hundred dollars over into an account for the chief sustainability officer so these items just like the social service items are in your in your council budget category  so i have under our charter i have the authority to move things within a budget category and and we don't do it very often but you have the authority at the last during the last quarter of the fiscal year to actually move funding from one department to another i don't have that authority and so tonight my suggestion is that we allocate this funding to the chief sustainability officer but since it's in your budget i thought you should make that decision so we would set up an account there and impact what your office does with it clearly it's something that those organizations would feel strongly about the largest one contributions see that's five thousand dollars the convention bureau is second to thirty six hundred i do know that for most of our properties our hospitality properties are members of the convention bureau and it's more of a direct support to them than it is to the city they work together to identify conventions that might be interest but these are members i don't know how know they would argue differently but it's hard for me to discern they are the return on investment there to start with i think the return on investment by getting paul off the ground and going with the budget is going to be more significant for our community  and they're trying to grow their organization and he's going to want to link into that and there may be some other things like that we're not members of right now that might prove useful  them i just wanted to say that i think pat's concerns are valid i wasn't here two weeks ago but i think that the saw that the cost would have been stated up front is  something that would be best practices i too have been beating the drum to develop relations with  larger business community so that our city center can really take off so i hear that concern to i i here at the same time  that we had cut the energy committees funs from this year's budget and that this was something that was a from them but chosen to be mute i guess one would think they might have some thoughts for or against and be getting feedback from their constituencies but i mean i guess it is related to governance of airport but i do find  things to run the city these are contributions we make to outside organizations that really i struggle to find figure out what the return on investment is so i went there because i thought that that was better than than not buying a piece of equipment or not being able to fund other city activities this is purely discretionary money most of what the city does is not discretionary it's obligated so it's going there and when new furniture yeah but that those are those are obligations the city has to provide services pat i think the distinction here which is a strong one is these are these are discretionary dollars along with the social service dollars which we talked about earlier that the council can decide how to best invest those dollars  could come from being told after the fact well you don't have to fund this plan i mean the council does not have to make this decision to fund this this is totally in your daily work if you don't it that's your decision i don't think i can't speak for you kevin but as i recall the conversation with paul conner about his new designation and how that m t assist the city there was a discussion about and i'm going to need more money but i think as and frankly we didn't have proof that it was just some ways courtesy and transparency if you will have been sharing with us this is a management decision on my part you know i'm proud of it i think it's helpful for the community hall is was willing to take on new obligations if you will he felt would add to the flesh out what the possibilities are some additional funds for help to really take on the projects that are important to the community  became clear that money was needed you know we can go forward this year without any extra money for this build it into the next budget but i think this was just an opportunity and maybe we can give them some ideas about how they could be more proactive for the night opportunity yeah thank you we're down to other business whether david decides he wants to put something in the newspaper than a generic i just feel like he hasn't had an answer to that is to this judge and this is only on city proper city city street right of ways we don't control private parking lots whether engrosses are or exits right we don't control the end of the interstate that's federal property right and we do we don't have jurisdiction so so then the question boils down to is there a specific intersection that we do control that he's concerned about i don't listen i'm not defending him or whatever and what i'm looking at is to say he had set up a shocked that he felt that have no legal right to stop this then we have something we've given to him that is wasn't just well maybe it does get a check did i just want it so we can put this trevor my understanding is we don't have the right to call it or we don't have an ordinance so at this point channel doing we are no longer life you know all right thank you i want to call back into session the south bronx and city council on monday october sec just completing our executive session we're now an item twenty which is consider and possibly make appointments to city boards committees in commissions and i believe we're putting off most of those appointments but we have one that we can in we'll pending a motion appoint we need to appoint justin c any discussion on that we need to do this so if he represents a see can actually vote for us so hearing no on all those in favor signify by saying  i thank you and so that's all the appointments we're going to make then we move on to our final item which is a council discussion regarding them priority ranking perspective city center public facilities and again this is a discussion not necessarily any voting or determine if particularly with tom not here of  our priorities but just kind of discussing aloud what those might be march is not that far off and of course in order to take a ballot item to the public in march you need to make a decision toward the end of december or january as to what the ballot item is going to be and you need a lot of information for your own decisions but also for the public well prior to that and so on i discussed having this on the agenda as kind of an opener to the discussion around public facilities you've already taken to the voters the to funding and approval for market street construction and also for recreation facilities and so on and so staff would like to understand how we can help you what information you need to have as you start to determine what you want to take to the  voters potentially in march so we don't make any assumptions that anything is going to march but that's the next upcoming vote will be three votes next year with the august primary and also the general election in november  but the year after that again we'll be back to having only one so this week up especially if i had less we have a special good point we can as long as donna is not listening to me right now we can you can have a special election anytime you want pretty much  but i think it's pretty safe bet that the library would be at the top of the list but i think that what i would put forward to this council is given that we have between now and mid january till the ballot items have to be determined it would be i think to the public's best interests and to our benefit as the deciding body to really let the some preliminary design would be available for you and for the public by mid december these are again as i've said in other media these aren't blueprints these are these are just some elevations and possibly lay out would be in our interest to dig out the old doorway to your elevations and say these are some previous you know designs that were contemplated there are definitely not designs that are in debt this point in the mix but you know there are some really well done in there is there are multiple perspectives and different types of designs there so some of them work were concepts where the year they were actually attaching or or building on top of the existing community library in the high school but some are freestanding new designs so if it's worth digging those out to say these are concepts that we had at one time so because i'm sure they would they might not apply if if something like this were to go in city center and you had the the form based code requirement of four stories in that location next to the cathedral square building then of course those designs might not fit that but there are other possibilities right so and where the funds come from how this flows how it works i think people as you say really want to know all right for the library we really need to have generated a certain amount of tift development to support it so those are sort of more means hard to get concrete numbers when things investment with the test dollars and the rest of the bills that's true because some of the numbers that we looked at way back when certainly aren't in play anymore you know one was we would look at a library that was going to be on the ground for a level of a building that was going to be built by a private developer and so on and now we're looking at it as a completely different type of structure than we did then and  the funding for it then people need to know what the library trustees and their group of fundraisers are will be expected to contribute along with taxpayers dollars along with th dollars and with those concerns so i think you know being out there but we're all committed to the new library i think that they took that would go without saying i don't think there's one of us that wouldn't say that that was the first piece on our then also passing that to fund projects of market street right which is an infrastructure development that makes possible everything else that happens in that area right plus the park which is an amenity but an important  extends the public throughout that whole area so if we've gone to that expense in terms of educating people getting their feedback rating what the next thing to do is to say we have the opportunity here to create a few more assets for the city at a discount because of the district right so the question is what is the priority what would it what do you think we should pursue first right and you've got a library rec center a city hall parking structure right which is more of an infrastructure thing that it is than an asset for the city in terms of like culture right so you have culture versus infrastructure and so that's that's one of the questions that people need to start asking themselves right and when we lay out what the cost will be and what the benefits will be then and then they'll be able to make an informed decision some of the interest there are a lot of unknowns there here as well that we don't know what the tiff income will be over that one two three or four years because we don't know exactly what's coming down but but we are forging ahead right with the market street construction which is going to foster the ability to do all these of things so i think it's also important to  you know remind the public the extent to which there have been workshops and all kinds of  might not remember that there was a committee that recommended that library city hall rec center be three are together right bill together right and so we as a council take that recommendation but we also have to look at the reality with regard to what findings available with regard to what land is available and what could be developed on that land right all these pieces that we're trying to put together with their input but this is not we're not reinventing the wheel here this is this has been a really comprehensive process and you know people are busy and you know we have our fingers on this you know regularly whereas i think just  little kind of timeline you know showing how this has taken shape would be helpful maybe going back with those original i mean you could do a timeline of how the right here and then we did the visioning and it was first it was separate and then it was let's have them connected but they were like three separate structures that were connected and then  through our conversations and the reality of the tiff money we got to the point where we've been thinking maybe it could be should be the two bottom layers or  testing i mean we need feedback from the public this is why we are suggesting just two floors for the library because it's more cost effective than whatever and then we throw in the city hall and public space and is that still something you're interested in i mean you know get another workshop or another testing of those principles so you generate some  feedback this is the state of our finances right yes and as this is this is what's needed to do all those different things so that's why we came have come a little closer to making it more modified vision of the library and city hall or the rec department or whatever it is that we're talking about and see what kind of feedback we get and get there brian are there because i thought those public meetings were really helpful when you know about the park can i mean it was very different all the different plans and it was it was fun it was really interesting to see what the different visions could be and now we're working with real dad were working with real figures and so now is where the rubber  things you really can't have them all so then it comes down to what is the core minimum of the things that you wish you could have that you'd be satisfied with if you got right that would fulfill or helpful fill of the mission of your department you know looking at that no i i just like the idea of having it open discussions so that you know all of our residents are well tuned in to this so that we don't have anyone coming back and saying that we want to transparent as we possibly could be i know that word gets overused but i think in a case like this being it's up front and open and hearing what everyone has to say is important right we have committees that we really need to have weigh in in the library committee certainly has and they can help make the case of those public meetings and ultimately or at some point trying to get to move into this building on market street what is very tense for city hall that building being attached to the fire department is not going to be every business person streams of a building as nice as it is so i you know i kind of look at this and say you know i'd like to find out if the school has any interest in it and a future point i know we are having a appraisal done of the building pot to kind of inform that discussion a little bit because it is going to come up so we kind of need to know what the value of the building is in the marketplace and i think that appraisal we've brought somebody on board to do that but yeah we'll need to get that information for the public as well so to actually plan those mean what do we do next i think some of the to really engage the public we can't have a public meeting right like this hearing in the come up and they say i'm with this and with this you know well i mean they can do that but we sort of have done that for quite a few years so i think it needs to be more concrete around or you know if you just say all i want is a library what that could look like and then some creative ideas about upper stories voice leaders that's what i mean i mean that's the decision then we can layer it with pro and city hall but and that's the kind of feedback we need and if they say absolutely no city hall you've got a perfectly good one already then visuals are important i think you you tease out what else is in that building and figures are important you know i mean that's something i think we learned over the past year when we were you looking at the tip was they want to see the fine details they want to see they want to understand and of course they do right so we can spell that out as clearly as possible i think that would be to everyone's benefit as well we will come up with will come up with some ideas around different options and projected costs the visuals i think we're going to have unfortunately probably later but maybe by the beginning of december have something it's october now so we don't we don't have a whole lot of time and we need to be out in in the public having these kind of what we're looking at four square footage of each floor it's a twelve thousand foot it's a twelve thousand square foot footprint pat on that site so four or five floors of that but you got to figure only maybe eighty percent usable may be maybe ten thousand nine thousand square feet per floor maybe ten thousand what do we have any city hall now we have eight thousand and city hall including i think including this conference room right so the library current library is twelve thousand square feet but it's not it's maybe ten thousand usable this year yeah because there's the there's the career center there stairways  ramps stuff like that so i think you're probably looking at twenty thousand square feet two floors of usable space i'm not an architect all right so we're there comments this will start putting some scenarios together for you and a number such as we have them and an options and create like an option sheet and and have something for you certainly the first meeting in the member maybe maybe the next meeting  that it nearly got to the point nobody wanted anything right you know they got a little too complicated all right we got our