the committee will come to order  before beginning my opening statement i'd like to make to be finance when saddam procedure first given the time constraints on the witnesses and to maximize the time members have for questioning only the ranking member and i will make opening statements after that we will turn to the witnesses for their testimony without objection all other members may place written statements in the record and as i mentioned at the end of last week's hearing i will recognize members for questioning at the point where we left off last week so those who did not have an opportunity question our witnesses last week will get the first chance to ask questions today the staff has sent out specific information about the order in which members will be recognized and now go to the hearing  last week the committee heard from secretary clinton secretary gates and admiral mullen three of the president's top national security advisers they did an excellent job in making the administration's case for the new strategy in afghanistan and pakistan today we welcome the top american officials on the ground in afghanistan and basser karo w i can bury that the chief of mission at our embassy in kabul and general stanley mcchrystal the commander of all united states and international forces in afghanistan the president's team has made it very clear that our efforts to degrade the taliban and defeat al qaeda cannot stop at the duran line indeed nearly all of the groups operating in pakistan and afghanistan al qaeda the pakistani taliban the afghan taliban the haqqani network allie t and others have joined together in an extended terrorist network that shares the same goals including destabilizing afghanistan and destroying the pakistani state fortunately there appears to be a growing recognition in pakistan that it is impossible to differentiate between different terrorist groups and that the same people killing american international and afghan troops are now arming suicide bombers in the streets and markets of pakistan and killing pakistani civilians we sympathize with the plight of the pakistani people who have suffered great losses from the growing number of terrorist attacks in that country as reflected in the legislation recently passed by congress we are committed to doing what we can to improve their economic and fish cole security as all of our witnesses emphasized in last week's hearing the president's military strategy in afghanistan can only succeed if it is accompanied by a robust civilian surge designed to improve governance strengthen the rule of law and promote economic development in both afghanistan and pakistan this fact often gets lost in the debate about troop levels and the timeframe for withdrawal and we must make sure that the civilian critical civilian programs aren't short changed to that end ambassador i can very will you have enough capable civilians on the ground to help strengthen governance build rule of law and promote economic enterprise will these civilians have sufficient knowledge in these areas to be effective will they have sufficient experience operating in dangerous environments like afghanistan and are nine hundred seventy four civilians as human stray sion is proposed having on the ground by early next year all we need if not when will you be able to tell us exactly how many are required what will your new military campaign plan include that the august plan did not with regard to the military strategy i am curious one of the key to our success in iraq was the sunni awakening in which thousands of sunni tribesmen many of whom had participated in or aided the in surgery essentially switch to our side is there any prospect of a similar shift in afghanistan can we succeed in afghanistan without such an awakening finally general mcchrystal will thirty thousand troops even with an additional seven thousand apparently pledged by other nations fission to break the taliban's momentum can we meet the president's objective of degrading the taliban by focusing primarily on the south when the taliban is already operating in what types of soldiers trainers for infantry what comprises thirty thousand increase now i'm pleased to return to the ranking member ms ross layton for any remarks she would like to make and following that we will proceed immunity to the testimony of our distinguished witnesses thank you so much mr chairman general mcchrystal and ambassador i can very well for months we have been requesting your presence before the committee to discuss the afghanistan strategy so we're streaming we pleased that the administration has now authorized you to provide testimony welcome sir last week we received a broad present taishan when the chairman asked secretary clinton if she knew the resources that will be needed for the civilian surge she was unable to provide specifics adding that the administration and i quote will be submitting budget requests in order to achieve the numbers that are going to be needed and quote so we anxiously await a more detailed assessment on what you need to prevail against our enemies before we look forward we must present an accurate portrayal of the last eight years in afghanistan the progress that has been achieved and the challenges that lay ahead claims of failure from some are enough front to our brave men and women such as my daughter in law lindsey who served as a marine officer in afghanistan in two thousand and seven it minimises their accomplishments and let me briefly contrast afghanistan in two thousand and one to afghanistan now the taliban is not in power does not control afghanistan while our enemies are rebuilding afghanistan has not been used to launch attacks against the u s homeland there are serious problems with corruption but there is a duly elected government in power one that is an ally of the united states and afghan women and girls are have unprecedented access to the health than education services and are interrelated into afghan society as embassador i can very noted this week afghanistan has come a long way since the dark days of the taliban and i have witnessed this progress during my travels there turning to the strategy announced by the president i have five quick main issues for our distinguished panel first i'm concerned about the delays in the decision making the impact on our ability to succeed in disrupting defeating dismantling al qaeda and the taliban general mcchrystal you wrote on aug thirtieth that the next twelve months from that date were critical yet one quarter of that time has already gone and by the time the surge is expected to reach its full capacity three quarters of that time would have elapsed operations such as the marine offensive operations operation  anger rb an overt undertaken is this illustrative of the counterinsurgency strategy that will be carried out as part of the surge and how does this compare to the counterterrorism strategy secondly mcchrystal has the president provided you enough troops and other resources to successfully complete our mission there have been reports that the missions goals have changed from your original proposal focusing on the elimination of the taliban t instead ensuring that insurgents could no longer threaten the afghan government survival also our rules of engagement robust enough to repel and permanently eliminate the taliban as a threat and as the chairman asked  do you have the necessary tools to carry out the civilian component of the strategy thirdly i have concerns about the july twenty seventh trigger for withdrawal that's been highlighted in the president's speech talk of transition and exit ramps with an eighteen month target to begin withdrawing well a glass to our enemies that all they need to do is persevered and through a few difficult fighting seasons because the u s will retreat  some also argue that withdrawal timelines make our troops wonder about the determination of washington to succeed and could undermine our efforts to secure greater cooperation from our allies the new york times recently reported that the president's timetable for withdrawal of american forces in afghanistan rattled nerves in that country and in pakistan as well prompting diplomats to scramble to assure that reassure the two countries that we would not in fact cut and run a fourth concern volves the problems of command and control coordination with our allies and burden sharing our allies are being asked to provide more troops to help push the taliban out of center and north some such as the dutch canadians british and french shoulder a greater burden do you foresee difficulties in securing a greater commitment from our allies to contribute to the war effort do the forces that the nato security general identified have the combat capabilities that you require and what actions has the administration taken to convince countries to give you more flexibility in placing troops where they are most needed rather than leaving them in save zones and fifth and finally our afghanistan strategy does not exist in a vacuum at last week's hearing i referred to statements by the chief prosecutor for the international criminal court that he already has jurisdiction in afghanistan that he's already conducting a poor limb unary examination into whether nato troops including our american soldiers may have to be prosecuted by the i c c also as you know three navy seals part of a team that captured the ringleader of those responsible for the two thousand and seven brutal murder of our of our american contractors in fallujah are facing court martial after the killer initially complained that he suffered a bloody lip while in u s custody so combined with the real investigation over u s intelligence activities the prosecution of cia operatives the transfer of get mo detainees for trials in the u s the negative impact of our activities in afghanistan could be dramatic and could undermine critical intelligence gathering that could save save the lives of americans serving there despite these concerns our nation safety is at stake and we must ensure that the brave americans serving in afghanistan as well as our critical allies are provided the support that they need to win this war decisively i thank you both the gentleman for appearing before us thank you so much for the time mr chairman thank you very much and now to introduce our witnesses ambassador caro i can bury retired from the united states army with the rank of lieutenant general april twenty eighth two thousand and nine and shortly thereafter was sworn in first as u s security coordinator and chief of the office of military cooperation in kabul and then as commander of the combined forces command afghanistan general stanley mcchrystal is the current commander international security assistance force and commander u s forces afghanistan previously served as director of the joint staff from the april two thousand and eight to june two thousand and as commander joint special operations command from two thank you chairman berman ranking member laden and distinguished members of this committee thank you for the opportunity to present my views on afghanistan today i'd ask that my full statement be submitted for the record last week in his speech at the united states military academy at west point president obama presented the administration's strategy for afghanistan and pakistan his decision came after an intensive deliberative and a far reaching review and i'm honored to have been part of that process i believe the course that the president outlined offers the best path to stabilize afghanistan and ensure that al qaeda cannot regain a foothold to plan new attacks against us i can say without equivocation that i fully support this approach i consider myself privileged to serve as united states and bassett are and represent an amazing team of diplomats development specialists and civilian experts who form the most capable and dedicated united states embassy anywhere in the world today i'm extraordinarily proud of them i'm also honored to testify alongside general mcchrystal my professional colleague and friend of many years i want to say from the outset that general mcchrystal and myself are united in a joint effort where civilian and military personnel work together every day side by side with our afghan partners and with our allies and we could not accomplish our objectives without this kind of cooperation as you know mr chairman the united states is at a critical juncture in our involvement in afghanistan on december the first president ordered thirty thousand additional troops to deploy to afghanistan on an accelerated timetable with the goal of breaking the insurgency has momentum hastening improving the training of afghan national security forces and establishing security in key parts of the country on the civilian side we aim to increase employment and provide essential services in areas of greatest insecurity and to improve critical ministries and the economy at the national level the steps taken together i believe will help to remove insurgents from the battlefield and to build support for the afghan government as the president said we will be clear about what we expect from those who receive our assistance after a difficult election the afghan government does show signs of recognizing the need to deliver better governance and security we await urgent concrete steps in a number of areas i would likely i would like to briefly discuss the three main pillars of our efforts in afghanistan which are security governance and development general mcchrystal will address our plans to improving security and building the afghan national security forces since assuming my post i made a special point of getting outside of kabul to see conditions firsthand and i thought we concur with general mcchrystal is assessment that security situation in afghanistan remains serious sending additional united states and nato and other nato allies have forces to afghanistan is critical to regaining the initiative and i'm confident that it sees troops arrive the situation will set a bligh's in turn our favor additional troops will also permit us to expand our work with the afghan army and the afghan police so that they can take a larger role in providing for security for their own people as president obama said the transition to afghan response ability will begin in the summer of two thousand and eleven when we expect afghan security forces to begin assuming lead responsibility for defending their country moving on from security the second pillar of our comprehensive strategy focuses on governance at the national and at the subnational levels our overarching goal is to encourage improved governance so that afghans can see the benefit of supporting a legitimate government and the insurgency loses support as general mcchrystal points out one of the major impediments our strategy faces is the afghan government's lack of credibility with its own people to strengthen its legitimacy our approach at the national level is to improving keep ministry's by increasing the number of civilian technical advisers and providing more developmental assistance directly through these ministries budgets by focusing on ministries that deliver essential services and security we can accelerate the building of an afghan government that is sufficiently visible effective and accountable in the district levels we are working jointly with our military teams through our provincial reconstruction teams our district development working groups and districts support teams which help build afghan capacity particularly in the areas of greatest in security in southern afghanistan and eastern afghanistan underpinning all of these efforts is the need to combat corruption and to promote the rule of law with our assistance the afghan government is steadily building law enforcement institutions to fight corruption organized crime and drug trafficking innocent augur will address president karzai has stated his intention to make merit based appointments in his new cabinet and implement an anti corruption strategy and we're encouraged by his statements the cultivation of poppy and trafficking in opium also continue to have a debilitating effect on afghan society our strategy is multi pronged involves demand reduction efforts by law enforcement agencies in the military to detain traffickers and interdict drug shipments and support for illicit agricultural development the narcotics problem of course will never have a solution though without economic development and this leads to the third pillar of our effort which is development in recent months we've adjusted our approach to focusing on building key elements of the afghan private sector economy increasing our emphasis on agriculture in hansing government revenue collection and improving the coordination assistance within the united states government and the international community needs steps were taken to produce improvements in the lives of ordinary afghans and they contribute directly to more effective government and less in support for the insurgency rebuilding the farm sector in particular is essential for the afghan government to reduce the of unemployed men who form the recruiting base for extremist groups we estimate that some eighty percent of the afghan population derives their income either directly or indirectly from agriculture this german i want to emphasize that we're concentrating on what is essential and what is attainable the president's strategy is based on a pragmatic assessment of the security interest of the united states and our belief that a sustainable representative government and a sustainable economy are essential to success we need a viable afghan government sort forces can draw down and investment of u s taxpayer dollars can be reduced in closing i need to mention two important that we do face in carrying out this strategy the first is and in spite of everything that we do afghanistan may struggle to take over the essential task of governance and security on a timely basis the second is our partnership with pakistan the efforts were undertaking in afghanistan is likely to fall short of our strategic goals unless there is more progress at eliminating the sanctuaries used by the afghan taliban and the associates in pakistan if the main elements of the president's plan are executed and if our afghan partners and our allies do their part i'm confident that we can achieve our strategic objectives i say this with conviction because for the first time in my three tours in afghanistan all of the elements of our national power are being employed with full support of the president and increasingly of our allies achieving our goals for afghanistan will not be easy but i'm optimistic that we can succeed with the support of the united states congress our mission has been under resourced for years but is now one of our government's highest priorities was substantial development funds and hundreds more civilian personnel we will soon have increased our civilian presence in kabul threefold in the field six fold just over this past year and we will of course though need more u s foreign assistance is also a comparatively small but essentially a fraction of the total amount being spent in afghanistan and has been spent over the last eight years additional resources will be necessary and we look forward to sharing more details spaded needs with congress in the coming days and weeks mr chairman afghanistan is a daunting challenge success is not guaranteed but it is possible with the additional troops and other resources provided by the president and with the help of congress we will work tirelessly to ensure that al qaeda never again regain gains refuge in afghanistan and threatens our country and thank you sir i look forward to your questions thank you very much general mcchrystal mr chairman ranking member last late and distinguished members of this committee thank you for the chance to appear before you today i welcome this opportunity to testify in our way ahead  a stand and i'm pleased to do so with ambassador karl eikenberry an old friend let me begin by saluting the bravery of the men and women of the international security assistance force in afghanistan they are anchored by over sixty eight thousand courageous americans are close partners in the nato alliance and a forty three nation coalition we honor the sacrifices of the fallen the veterans and their families we also recognize the toll paid every day by our counterparts in the afghan security forces and by afghan civilians who ultimately suffer the most from this insurgency it is for them and for all of us that we seek a stable afghanistan a defunct al qaeda and a secure future in that vital region of the world i first deployed to afghanistan in two thousand and two and have commanded forces there every year since despite that experience there is much in afghanistan that i have yet to fully understand for all of us afghanistan is a challenge that is best approach with a balance of determination and humility while u s forces have been at war in afghanistan for eight years the afghans have been at it for more than thirty they are frustrated with international effort that have failed to meet their expectations confronting us with a crisis of confidence among afghans who view the international effort as insufficient and their government is corrupt or at the very least in consequential we also face a complex and resilient insurgency the quetta shura taliban or out or afghan taliban there's a problem prominent threat to the government of afghanistan and they aspire to once again become the government of afghanistan the and his be islami gulbuddin insurgent groups have more limited geographical region objectives but they are no less lethal all three groups are supported to some degree by external elements in iran and pakistan have ties with al and coexist with the narcotics and criminal networks both fueling and feeding off instability and insecurity in the region the mission in afghanistan is undeniably difficult and success will require steadfast commitment and incur significant costs i participated fully in the president's assessment decision making process and was a vote afforded multiple opportunities to provide my recommendations and best military advice which i did combined with insights and policy considerations from across our government i believe the decisions that came from that process reflect a realistic and effective approach to pursue our core goal of defeating al qaeda and preventing their return afghanistan we must disrupt and degrade the taliban's capacity deny their access to the afghan population and strengthen the afghan security forces this means me we must reverse the taliban's current momentum and create the time and space to develop afghan security and governance capacity the president's decision rapidly resources our strategy recognizing that the next eighteen months will likely be decisive and ultimately enable success i fully support the president's decision the president has also reiterated how this decision supports our national interests rolling back the taliban as a prerequisite to the ultimate defeat of al qaeda the mission is not only important is it it is also achievable we can and will accomplish this mission let me bring we explain why i believe so my confidence derives first from the afghans resolve since it is their actions that will ultimately matter most in ending this conflict with their interests and by extension our own secured second we do not confront a popular insurgency the taliban have no widespread constituency have a history of failure in power and lack an appealing vision third where strategy is applied we've begun to show that we can help the afghans establish more effective security and more credible governance finally afghans do not regard occupiers they do not wish for us to remain forever yet they see our support as a necessary bridge to future security and stability i've been back in afghanistan for six months now i believe that with the president's decision and ongoing reforms i outlined in our initial assessment our efforts are now empowered with a greater sense of clarity capability commitment and confidence let me start with clarity the president's recently completed review of our strategy to include its deep and pointed questioning of all assumptions and recommendations has produced greater clarity of our mission and objectives we also have greater clarity on the way forward additional forces will begin to deploy shortly and by this time next year new security gains will be illuminated by specific indicators and it will be clear to us that the insurgency has lost the momentum and by the summer of two thousand and eleven it will be clear to the afghan people that the insurgency will not win giving them the chance to side with their government from that point forward while we begin to reduce u s u s combat force levels we will remain partnered with the afghan security forces in a supporting role to consolidate and solidify their ga results may come more quickly and we must demonstrate progress toward measurable objectives but the sober fact is that there are no silver bullets ultimate success will be the cumulative effect of sustained pressure across multiple lines of operation increasing our capability has been about much more than just troop increases for the past six months we have been implementing organizational operational changes they're already reflecting improvements in our effect of this but the additional forces announced by president  submit our significant forces to increase our capacity to train the afghan national security forces and forces to partner with afghan army and police in expanding security zones in key areas will provide us the ability to reverse  momentum and deny the taliban the access to the population they require to survive our commitment is watched intently and constantly judged by our allies and by our enemies the commitment of thirty thousand additional u s forces along with additional coalition forces and growing afghan national security force numbers will be a significant step toward expanding security in critical areas and in demonstrating resolve the commitment of all coalition nations will be buttressed by a clear understanding of how we will mitigate risks briefly mention three the first is the afghan government's credibility deficit which must be recognised by all to include afghan officials as a critical area of focus and change equally important is our ability to accelerate development of the afghan security forces measures such as increased pay and incentives literacy training leader development and expanded partnering are necessary to position the afghan national security forces to assume responsibility for long term security third the hazard posed by extremists that operate on both sides of the border with pakistan with freedom of movement across that border must be mitigated by enhanced cross border coordination and enhance pakistani engagement looking ahead i'm confident we have both the right strategy and the right resources every trip around afghanistan reinforces my confidence in the coalition and afghan forces we stand alongside in this effort but i also find confidence in those we are trying to help that confidence is found where an afghan farmer chooses to harvest wheat rather than poppy or and where young adult cast his or her vote or joins the police where a group of villagers resolves to reject the local insurgency we face many challenges in afghanistan but our efforts are staying sustained by one unassailable reality neither the afghan people nor the international community one afghanistan to remain a sanctuary for terror and violence and if we are to be confident of our mission and our prospects we must also be accurate in our assessment of progress we ourselves our leaders and the american people transparency and candor because the price to be paid is high and the stakes are even higher in closing my team and i would like to thank you and your colleagues for your support of the american men and women currently serving in afghanistan and to tell you a bit about them we risk letting numbers like thirty k roll off our tongues without remembering that those are fathers mothers sons and daughters serving far from home selfless and their sacrifices for each of us the other day i asked a young but combat experience sergeant where he was on nine eleven and his answer getting my braces removed reminded me it's been more than eight years since nine eleven and many of our service members and families have experienced and sacrificed much but as i see them in action at remote bases on patrol partnering with afghan forces recovering in combat hospitals they don't talk about all they've given up they talk about all they are accomplishing and their determination in this endeavor this is not a force of rookies or dilettantes brigade commander in khost is completing his fourth combat tour in afghanistan and his experience and expertise is reflective of the force that represents you all have felt fear and loneliness most have lost comrades none have lost heart in their eyes i see maturity beyond their years in their actions i see a commitment to succeed and a commitment to each other i am confident that i share your pride in what these great americans are doing for our country in afghanistan and it will be my privilege to accept your questions on their behalf thank you m and i have to age one american and one german bill rafferty is one of our planners a british officer another allied officer from the u s navy greg smith runs our communications jake my parents are political adviser in the headquarters k c welch is my other a my american aid had twenty seven months in iraq before he came to afghanistan with only five months off between those two deployments and then dave silverman  is my personal staff as well obviously another naval officer great thank you very much we'll begin the question now and first going to recognize the gentleman from texas mr green for five minutes thank you mr chairman thank you for continuing the hearing and i want to thank both embassador i can very and general mcchrystal for for what you do and your leadership you're doing for our young men and women not only serving in the military but obviously and in the civilian side having been  the embassy and have been a stand a couple of times in and been hosted there it's not the play area anyone ever thinks so but i appreciate what you all do and i know members of congress to general mcchrystal there are currently ninety four thousand afghan soldiers on the ground and current plans call for increasing the number one hundred thirty four about october of next year there are currently about ninety one thousand afghan police officers on the ground currently calling for boosting the ninety six thousand eight hundred by next october and make a total of afghan security force around two hundred thirty thousand police and military during this strategic overview review you advocated for boosting the number of afghan security forces a four hundred thousand security forces in iraq with a much easier to reign now total about six hundred thousand we think four hundred thousand with tougher terrain in afghanistan is really a lot more than two hundred and that is the right answer and we did a detailed analysis of what it would take using basic coin doctrine to secure afghanistan and the number reaches up near six hundred thousand total afghan security forces of all kinds  police and army but the insurgency is not in the entire country not all the countries threatened so as we refined our focus in fact we were able to to reach what we believe is a better longer term in state we came up with about four hundred thousand a combination of army and police as being the right number for afghanistan to have as coalition forces dropped down to a fairly small number of advisors or for the long term that would of course be adjusted or could be adjusted based upon whether there's an insurgency at that point and the the size of that insurgency a number four hundred thousand divided between the army and the police of two hundred forty thousand alternately in the army one hundred and sixty thousand in the police would not be really out of range for that part of the world for standing armies and police but i think we need to view that not as a hard number at this point but is a goal we work toward and adjust constantly the president's decision is to grow those forces like we're going the army don't hundred thirty four thousand by next fall and we'll clearly continue to grow the police but to relook that every year will allow us to reflect what the state of the insurgency is and then of course what their ability to grow is can they can they make those numbers we're getting some very heartening feedback here recently there have been pay raises for both the army and the police implemented by the government of afghanistan with our the international president who shares and i know congress as general mcchrystal in your testimony you write additional forces will begin to deploy shortly and by this time next year new security gains will be eliminated bass fishing indicators it would be clear to us that the insurgency has lost momentum other than generally saying conditions on the ground knowing that security situation would never be perfect what specific criteria can the american people look to that we're basing that decision on that decision on sometime next year so there were we collect a tremendous number of metrics but we try to put those together into one in a number that is understandable both to us and then communicate about the first and biggest the the security situation by district across the country across it within the thirty four provinces whether the district is in fact under solid government control whether it might be contested or whether it might be under insurgent control so we do a map that is fed by a tremendous amount of data that allows us to look at those districts if we are seeing progress in those that will be one of the major indicators i believe that the other major indicated will be the growth and development of the afghan national security forces or increasing capacity of afghanistan to secure itself in addition to those two major indicators that that i believe will be most illustrative we feed that with a tremendous amount of information from polling data of what the afghan people think which is key because ultimately this this war will be one in the minds of the afghan people and indicators of their ability to go about their lives whether they can drive through secure areas to market the cost of goods and things like that to get that time in the g we do appreciate the service to your country and then also your families and i think that was so illustrated by your staff or when you mentioned you know that he was in iraq and now in afghanistan and the time away from home general mcchrystal following the president  march speech to congress the president developed a series of metrics to judge progress in afghanistan and pakistan are those metrics still useful did they have any influence on the strategy and assessment that you did in august are these metrics still useful based on this president's new strategy to the metrics have any influence on the july two thousand and eleven withdrawal and do the metrics need to be revised as a result of the new the  congressman i believe the metrics they are still in place they are useful i do believe they will evolve over time because if the conditions on the ground evolve and we collect even more data and look at it i think it's important we we keep being willing to evolve to understand it so i expect those to be baseline metrics but i expect to inform that with many others as well so the i know that you all are very metric driven  we've had many come and testify before congress that president karzai is going to be held accountable do the do the metrics that you've developed do they specifically include assessment for president kar we have a robust plan of assessments at all levels i know that prime minister brown has reportedly given president karzai a list of milestones and metrics that will judge him by have you seen the list do you does it have are we trying to replicate and work with them in that regard congressman i have not seen this pacific place but i'm roughly familiar with the intent of the country there really is a great concern of the four guys that are under indictment or whatever you call that in the military and i think the concern is that  somehow or being caught up in political correctness i wanted to tell secretary gates how to get a chance to ask a question of him but arkansas played texas a and m e r earlier in the year and beat the texas stadium but you know in the head of that battle you know if somebody hit somebody in the mouth they'd be suspended for a guy and i know it's different you know the situation but it's not that different and i guess what i would like from you is just reassurance i know through the years people have stood up for me your reassurance that you are looking into that you know and shepherding that process i know you can't get involved directly at the point it is now mullen indicated that he had confidence with the people that you know were taking care of that and again my come back to that is that i know that he had confidence in the people of fort hood and yet a third grader could have could have told that there was something going on there that was that was not right and i think again the american people are concerned that that is due to political correctness congressman i am not familiar because the incident that happened in iraq with the current one that you mentioned the specifics of that case but i will tell you we we stress to our all of our people the importance of how they act but there's also an absolute loyalty to people as well so i think the balance is about right i feel very good particularly we've learned a lot over these years as we go through this with and i know that isn't you know as an iraqi situation but but it does make a difference in the sense your guys now when they're you know deciding whether or not to do an action or this or that the easiest thing to do is to not ok it does make a difference as far as decision making things and so i would help you would work with your cohorts i know that you've got  tremendous influence in various areas but that really is an important thing it's an important thing with the american people and their support of the military thank you mr chairman time the gentleman has expired the gentleman from georgia mr scott  five minutes thank you mr chairman and welcome general annan ambassador let me start off with the mission as it was articulated by gen gates and secretary clinton and last week was this that our mission is to go in destroy dismantle and defeat al qaida and both back gonna stand in pakistan and see to it that they do not return that being the case what about pakistan pakistan is where the crotch of the problem is but yet it is the least emphasis where we've seen our strategy that's where al qaeda is that's where the real apex of this situation is will our troops  commander of ice after my responsibility or my authority stop at the border of afghanistan and pakistan we do however work very hard and i personally spend a lot of time with general kiani developing a strategic partnership to enable them to meet their strategic objective let me ask you because i only have just a few minutes we're going have a number of questions to your knowledge of your involvement with the joint strategy with pakistan to your troops nato is said they're sending around seven thousand six thousand seven thousand troops those troops coming at it could you comment briefly on what that presents to you where a nation may send soldiers but they tell me you can go you can see but you can't conquer you can't get in the battle you must sit on the bench what does that do to our strategy so many of the forty three nations forces come with no cap and they operate just like  one senator that you said forty percent many of them i don't know the percentage i'd like to get that back to you for the record the caviar are something that i i work with all our nato partners and ask them to reduce to increase our flexibility and i think it's important we continue to reduce those so that they can prosecute operations particularly counterinsurgency effectively going back for a moment to you you mentioned some things there's been a hesitancy to stay away from the word nation building but as i listen to you as you talked about setting up the afghan government as you talked about your three corners which were security which was a government which was building up the economy that is nation partnership afghan allies government that has the capability of providing security of its own people let me just ask you though because i only have a little bit of time are we in nation building in afghanistan i job that our soldiers are doing but what concerns me there is a terrible strain on our military many of our young men and women are going on their third and fourth tours of duty there has been an ugly side to this every time i've gone over there four times i've been to afghanistan i go back to la i care about our military the situation in fort hood was just the tip of the iceberg in terms of excessive  stress the mental strain the suicide a divorce rates tell me how deep is the strain on our military and what are we doing about it congressman the strain is significant but the force is holding up extraordinarily well i think with the things we are doing to take care of families back in the states the things we are doing to look after service members while they are there to get  those things to take care of wounded warriors to me all of those come together to give the force much more resiliency then it would otherwise have and historically what time of the gentleman has the gentleman from south carolina mr wilson is recognized for five minutes general ambassador thank you very much for being here today i have a special appreciation of your commitment as a member of congress i'm grateful to be the co chair of the afghan caucus i appreciate your hospitality the   service particularly as a parent i've got four sons serving in the military of the united states today i'm very grateful for their service and military service means a lot tera families and that's why i want military families to know that i have faith in your integrity and i have faith in your ability you truly are looking out for the troops as i believe you're going to be victorious in this second surge where we will be defeating the terrorists to protect american families at home on tuesday i was honored to be at the armed services committee meeting ambassador and was pleasantly surprised when you said that there has been progress in afghanistan and sometimes i have to read about progress in unusual places like rotary magazine and they were giving indications of rotary projects around the world and one that they are backing up our schools the number of schools have increased from six hundred  fifty to nine thousand five hundred can you tell us what you see as progress and then what is the role of a provincial reconstruction team saying it thanks congressman there's been remarkable progress since the very dark days of the taliban a few dozen one you mentioned one education in two thousand and one there was one million children going to school their most all boys they were receiving a certain persuasion of education today there are six point five million af children who are going to school about thirty five percent of those are girls in two thousand and one very little of the afghan population had access to any healthcare now eighty percent of the population has access to primary albeit rudimentary but access to primary healthcare i could go on with the development of roads i could go on with now ten million afghans have cell phones have cell phones and there's been profound changes against that we know where the challenges are gen mcchrystal and i both share our views of those challenges are but there is room to there is room to have great hope as we move forward there is much to build upon the provincial gree construction teams the provincial reconstruction teams have a very important role the civilian military combined effort in many of the provinces of afghanistan under nato eyes have command and their roles are to assist the local government in strengthening their government to help them develop capacity in order to improve their distribution of basic services to the people in the area and be very helpful i served with congresswoman sheila jackson lee in the afghan if you could provide to us a bullet type of presentation that we could distribute to colleagues on items of progress that you see that would be very helpful and general mcchrystal i have had the opportunity to visit the police that well timed we just the government of afghanistan just increased the pay of afghan national army and police didn't quite double that but brought it almost twice it's still the design is to get to a living reasonable wage so that we don't have people who are forced to to resort to corruption or or family support to go forward and it is paid its foreign money that helps the afghan government is required to pay thirty four percent of their budget according to the london compact nine hundred ninety six towards their afghan security forces but that clearly does not does not cover the major part of cost and the cost largely covered usaf by foreign contributions it's my understanding that japan has been a major contributor and should be given credit again people do not know the extraordinary efforts and support from around the world as unlikely as japan supporting the police of afghanistan thank you again for your service time in the gentleman has expired the gentleman from arkansas mr ross recognized for five minutes thank you mr chairman general crystal the arkansas national guard like those in other states plays an important role in responding to natural disasters and other domestic emergencies in arkansas it's not uncommon for them to respond other states as well such as louisiana after hurricane katrina in addition to these domestic roles the arkansas national guard thirty ninth infantry brigade combat team as h twice been deployed to iraq and while this team has to date not served in afghanistan there is a significant national guard presence in afghanistan in fact thirty nine s been to iraq not once  but twice i think most of them out of a pretty good idea of what may be in their future i'm grateful for the service the men and women of the national guard provide our country their continued deployment leaves the national guard fewer troops and equipment needed to respond to domestic issues how many of the thirty thousand additional troops do you envision coming from the national guard and how soon will national guardsmen garge women return home after the planned drawdown begins in two thousand and eleven so i'll have to take for record the number of the thirty thousand and get back to that look like national guards that services will determine that i would like to take a second thought to talk about national guardsmen in service because they are extraordinary across all of the different disciplines engineers infantry trainers a significant number of people training the afghan national security forces are national guardsmen and then the agricultural development teams that that are there as well for many states they provide a linkage to practical agriculture expertise that we can provide and they also develop a sense of partnership with the afghan people that it's a combat multiplier not just development assistance it actually helps security as well so i can't say i'm enough about what national guardsmen do or the sacrifices they made in my approximately three quarters of the food fuel and other provisions that supply nato forces passes through pakistan in the face of increased taliban attacks on the supply routes  pakistani government has been unable to increase security since september two thousand and eight the attacks have forced several temporary closures of nato supply routes through the cab or past as a result of these attacks in the decreased security in pakistan nato was forced to seek alternative supply routes into afghanistan and the continuing attacks raise concern for the plummet of additional u s troops to afghanistan which will require a significant increase in supplies while some of the additional supplies will be transported via other ways such as the northern distribution network much of the additional supplies will have to pass through pakistan what will be done to ensure american and nato forces receive the supplies necessary during their deployment in light of this congressman that's a that's an important point we look at very hard the what we call the ground lines of communication that go through pakistan are essential to our effectiveness there and so what we work with is our strategic partnership with the government of pakistan to continue to secure those we actually have a very good track record of amount of quick meant that makes it through without any issues it's it's a very very high percentage it's been a it's been a very strong predictable flow that said we always understand that instability could threaten that and that is why the northern distribution network was developed not because we absolutely had to have it but we wanted to have alternate means so that if one means was threatened or one line of communication was threatened we would have the additional mongolia remains keeping you happy and with that i'll yield back my remaining forty second now i hope it's contagious the gentleman from south carolina mr inglis is recognized for five minutes thank you mr chairman general you lead an awesome group of folks and we thank you for your service and for their service you mention that our commitment as a nation is being watched intently and it's you called it a significant step to commit thirty thousand troops is it sufficient congressman i am confident that it is and if in the  commitment being watched intently would we signal by a timeline for trains for is that does that undermine the signal of commitment or does it with the impact of talking about a a date certain for trains for there are several points i'd like to make on that there is first a vulnerability in in any date that set the enemy can take that date and use it for propaganda purposes but i believe we can combat that but there are a number of positives in where we are right now and i'd like to stress those the first is that the date does serve as somewhat of a forcing function for the government of afghanistan and afghan people to understand that their responsibility for security is absolute and we need to move toward that and i think we've already begun to see some of the effect on that so that's positive but also step back and talk about the more important part to me at the security standpoint the president has outlined his commitment to a strategic partnership over time long term which provides surance to the people of afghanistan and the government that we are partnering with them were i an insurgent and i saw that solid assurance from the united states then i would understand that a date doesn't change anything in the near term the thirty thousand additional american forces combined with coalition forces is going to allow my forced to turn this momentum and very seriously push back on the insurgency and i think very effectively and i think that will be clear to everyone at the same time the growth of afghan national security forces will be rising during that period so that it any point whatever pace the president decides to draw down our combat forces i think that's met with growing afghan national security force and government capacity so i really think we don't leave much of a window of opportunity for the insurgency particularly when they see the long term commitment thank you and best for you also lead an impressive group of folks and we thank you for their service and your service and the general mention that the wonderful decision by a farmer to decide to make it to harvest wheat rather than poppy you have any idea what the per acre profit margin is based compare comparing those two crops i mean what's what kind of farmer make on  t as opposed to poppies it changes from year to year it changes from region to region i'll submit for the record congressman the most current data that the fluctuation of the price wheat the one of the main staple crops of afghanistan has an extraordinary amount to do with decisions by farmers but it also emphasizes there is a direct correlation a known direct correlation between areas of insecurity in afghanistan where there is no legitimate government of afghanistan presence and hi poppy yields we see that very clearly in southern afghanistan in one province of southern afghanistan helmand over fifty percent of poppy production for the entire country occurs there that's exactly the area where general mcchrystal is forces right now in the afghan national security forces have part of their main effort part of that success that will have their will have to do with pushing the taliban back and securing the afghan population part of the success will also yield reductions in poppy production and narco trafficking and there is a clear nexus between the two it seems to be a clear nexus between the security  the imposition the our ability to see to project for so that we stop that poppy production because otherwise the the unpopular the general said unpopular taliban becomes more popular by comparison if you can feed your family selling an illegal crop as opposed to slaving away on a low profit margin crop that maybe isn't going to feed your family so it's crucial supposed to have this these things go together that we have to push to say that you know you can't grow this anymore but also provide some hope that other crops will work and you can make a living one of our key one of the  principles of our developmental strategy is in the area that grid culture and i think congressman it gets exactly what you're talking about the time of the gentleman has expired the gentleman from new york mr crowley is recognized for five minutes i thank the chairman of both you gentlemen for being a force today like many of my colleagues i have some very serious reservations about the troop buildup in afghanistan especially in the midst of a tough economic cycle that we're in the right now here are first and foremost responsibility i believe is to the american people in addition to the course the geopolitical realities of again afghanistan and pakistan the greater region already squashes about u s efforts in afghanistan and also some of the  assets that appear upon landing in afghanistan and i want to thank you know it has been done already i noticed behind you general their representation of the of the coalition forces that are engaged in afghanistan will thank them for their participation for their the sacrifices that they've made as well many of us not just an american cause but having said that we will be sending many many more american troops than coalition forces  major earner for the insurance certainly for the insurgency if we were to displace that as a profit mode for the rebels and for al qaeda do you believe there are other alternative resources that they would be able to use to supplant that and would they be enough to to to carry out the the work we're doing right now congressman we calculate that the taliban get about a third of their funding from the narco trafficking but that they could operate without it they essentially tax the narco trade they could tackle this tax licit crops as well so we don't think that that would cripple the greatest threat from the narco trade is the corrosive corruption that it brings into governance so what we need to do first is get security and bring all of those down together i just thought it was important to make that point and i appreciate doing that but that and of itself will not and the problems we have about sort of just briefly congressman another source of revenue of course for the taleban comes from outside of afghanistan funds that come from the gulf comes that funds that come from  different elements in pakistan and there is a full out combined intelligence military and law enforcement effort to try to choke that off like you have a limited times when it gets sort of a point testimonies by numerous government was this is a pointed out  the u s is going to increase the number of trainers working to expand the afghan army over time if the plan works the size of the afghan army will grow substantially going forward how will the afghan army sustain itself financially financially and does your plan include a measure of self sustainability so that american taxpayers are not putting the entire bill for decades to come in the near term it's clear that afghanistan will not have the funds to pay for security forces  that they need as their economy grows that would be the hope but in but in that foreseeable future that does not appear possible the also congressman born to know that when we talk about the afghan national security forces the army and the police i don't think we could tell you precisely what's the ratio of cost of having a u s army soldier or marine deployed to afghanistan versus the cost of staying sustaining an afghan national army  soldier or policeman but it's probably on the order of thirty or forty to one obviously the way forward develop an afghan national police that can provide for the security their own people it makes good sense for a lot of reasons  chairman thank you both for being here from southeast texas i represent a guy by the name of charlie wilson's old district and so i have a few questions i just got back from afghanistan  tuesday and met with our generals german canadian and british nato allies and our troops down on the pakistan afghanistan border i was pleasantly surprised to learn that the afghan people appear to me to be very supportive of our our presence in afghanistan that they fear the taliban they fear the reprisals that they have lived under under the taliban and they supply us a lot of information about the talib dan good intelligence the question has several questions we've heard  about the president's position on more troops i call it the surge in retreat policy but now that has been hedged a little bit in the summer of two thousand and eleven general crystal what what is our policy now is it to re evaluate our troops our position in two thousand and eleven the summer of two thousand and eleven is that what it is it as you understand it congressman my understanding is in july of two thousand eleven we will begin the reduction of u s forces the pace of that and the scope of that will be based on conditions on the ground at that time so we will start bringing troops home but we won't necessarily bring them all home  that what you understand exactly congressman there will be some slope some pace that is determined by conditions and if the conditions are worse what happens then so the president can always make decisions based  upon conditions on the ground but it is my expectation that on beginning on july two thousand and will start of reduction you can you believe that you can accomplish the mission you have when you receive the troops which is in several weeks or even months maybe just a year year time that you have to do that congressman i do i think that with the forces we have the additional forces in that time i'm comfortable that we'll be able to do that when i think it's obvious  anybody that goes to afghanistan and iraq to that are our troops are just the best there's no there's no comparison to the quality of our troops how many members of the taliban are there i think it's we'd like to know how many of the enemy we're trying to defeat how many of them are there general congressman it varies based upon their popularity we assessed between twenty four and twenty seven thousand members of the taliban but i believe as momentum is turn that affects their ability to retain their force so i think it it's not people with long term enlistments i think it's it's more flexible in that having been on the pakistan afghanistan border  and talking to just regular troops just my opinion is that the pakistan government isn't doing enough to ratchet up protecting their side of the border that the taliban come over into afghanistan it will be to them if they come over in afghanistan it will be to them what they do because the military is going to find them but they run back over to pakistan and have sanctuary in appears to me we know where they are pakistan gives lip service to doing something about it met with their people and i'm not convinced that pakistan is engaged in helping defeat the taliban can you give me some insight on on that so i believe our long term way ahead is with a strategic partnership with pakistan they are absolutely focused against the t t p or pakistani taleban internal to pakistan they have not focused on the afghan taliban that use sanctuaries interestingly and i have a very close relationship with the pakistani military and build in this relations you know general for interrupting this or to have thirty seconds so they take care of business with the taliban that is the home grown folks that just stick around in pakistan to do mischief but people running back and forth across the border into afghanistan they don't consider that their problem congressman i think that may over simplify it i think they do but i wish that they would do more against the afghan taliban absolutely we've made very significant progress over the last twelve months in increasing our civilian numbers and our civilian capabilities in afghanistan and by january of next year here in about here in about a seven week timeframe you look back over the last month we will have had a threefold increase in our civilian presence in afghanistan very importantly in support of general mcchrystal zapper it's a six fold increase in the field numbers roughly then that we're talking about early next year january february timeframe we'll be looking at about one thousand civilians overall in afghanistan about four hundred of those we project to be out in the field it's a very diverse group of civilians these are civilians not only from the department of state as you know but usa id development specialist department of agriculture specialist around the country members  federal bureau of investigation mentoring and helping establish an afghan f b i we have brave members of the drug enforcement administration members of the federal aviation administration a really impressive array we've had innovations over the course of the past six months in which the way that we organize our civilian efforts and multiply the effects of wherever they are through hiring afghans and then through those afghan organizations amplifying the effects we have very close collaboration with general mcchrystal in the integration of these efforts projecting ahead congressman we are set to build to one thousand right now we're in discussions with the with the department about what additional capabilities and numbers will we need on the ground that's also in collaboration with general mcchrystal understanding his campaign so we can support that i don't have an exact number for what will grow too but it may be on the order of meeting several hundred more over the course of the next six to nine months old beyond what we projected currently well i guess my question is i mean that is very impressive and i thank you for that and  the movement in education girls education there's a lot of there are a lot of good stories to tell and i think what the youth over that but as i look at the what we're trying to arrive at a civilian number and what we're trying to arrive at  military number is like one hundred to one is that the right ratio we shouldn't have greater if we're trying to help stabilize the country harden the country so that it's more impervious to you know these forces that would overthrow the government and hurt the country shouldn't the proportion be a lot greater when it comes to civilian representation represented the numbers are important at one level but you have to look at the effects that they're going to be achieving when we talk about the military we talk about mobilizing platoons companies battalions of six hundred to deployed to afghanistan to achieve effects remember when we're talking months civilians we're talking about individuals three good department of agriculture specialist working in the ministry of agriculture of afghanistan can help transform that entire ministry and its delivery of services of agricultural services throughout the country and so yes numbers matter but at the end of the day it's how do you organize them and what effects  you trying to achieve and if you wish for the record i can give many more examples of that and i would like that but now because i've got one more question for you you know when i was in afghanistan it's only a few weeks ago our mission as part of the house democratic partnership commission was to interact with our counterparts other legislators there and i was really impressed with many people i met including several women legislators one of them was from helmand province she told us she said she reported that without the intervention the u s marines she she probably couldn't even be a member of parliament and i guess my question to you is know what is this is how a security related to women's rights in afghanistan in your view security is a very critical dimension of of the advancement of women's rights in afghanistan certainly there's many other factors but security is fundamental to the time the gentleman has expired the gentleman from illinois mr manzullo thank you mr chairman during the last three months the current prosecutor for the international criminal court has been making public statements that he has jurisdiction over alleged war crimes and crimes against humanity in afghanistan performing a quote perimeter investigation into operations by s and other nato forces this could lead to i c c prosecutions of american soldiers even though the united states has never ratified the room statute among other things he's declined to rule out  prosecutions based upon unmanned u s drone strikes against leaders in afghanistan however this administration is moving the united states closer to the international criminal court secretary of state has expressed great regret were not a signatory to the rooms last month for the first time for the first time since the rome statute entered into force administration sent a delegation to participate prosecutorial jurisdictional claims we understand that there is an article ninety eight agreement with afghanistan that exempts afghanistan a signatory to the rome agreement  from turning our troops over to the international criminal court however the soldiers if there are in member states such as japan germany and even the u k may be subject to jurisdiction  like to your opinions on whether you agree or disagree with the prosecutorial claim of potential jurisdiction to prosecute us in new troops over actions taken  states that are parties to the i c c and this precludes the afghan government from surrendering u s troops to the i c c the bottom line is here in the important bottom line is our troops are protected from being turned over to the the commitment of this administration while they are in afghanistan what if they're caught in there in other countries that are not signatories to the are to an article ninety eight agreement but the countries themselves are signatories to the rome agreement let me get back for the asked to go overseas to ghana stand to engage in combat they need to know whether or not they can be arrested in countries that are signatories to the room agreement i have to agree we need clarity and i would like to along with  can take this for the record to ensure we get you an accurate answer i'd hope that we would have it today i mean we're concerned about the prosecution of the three navy seals a lot of people contacted us they don't think the military is standing behind the young men men and women in uniform they don't think that because some terrorist got punched out that they should be subjected to a court martial that's taking place in this country i would like the assurance you on record as saying that you are absolutely opposed under any circumstances to men and women in uniform being arrested anywhere in the world before the court as a result of their actions in either iraq or afghanistan gentleman has expired the gentleman from florida mr kline is recognized thank you very much gentlemen i'm over here how are you thank you for being with us today and thank you for your service to our country difficult challenges and we appreciate you taking these challenges on general mcchrystal this week when you testified before the armed services committee explained that the taliban may react to the arrival of reinforcements with a shift of asymmetrical tactics suicide bombers increased use of improvised explosive  devices strategies other than traditional large scale operations can you share with us what are we doing to prepare our troops who are already there to confront these types of asymmetrical threats and what are we doing to get the afghan military to prevent these as well congressman on the on the direct tactical and we are doing extensive training on combating improvised explosive devices we're using a number of technical means from engineer equipment to intelligence surveillance and reconnaissance drones and whatnot look and we're using human intelligence as well so we're doing the tactical things to try to combat the problem as it already arises i think more widely the real way to get rid of things like i d s is to secure an area when you an area it's like reducing crime in a neighborhood rather than trying to stop each crime you can increase overall security and so what what that does is the population becomes intolerant of i e d because they sever the they suffer the most casualties from id's civilians do so we're we're working in that in that way to prove our partnership with the afghans is the same we are trying to provide them a quick and training as well so they have the same expertise against suicide bombers it's mostly intelligence are ok and if as a follow up i think that one of the discussion points that many people are raising about the whole effort and the tactic and strategy is whether there's a different way to do this  which would be to continue with success to train the afghan military we know the police continues to be a more complicated a lot more effort but continue to build the quantities of players there and then use our military in a tactical way special force tactical way to go after al qaeda where they are in those areas and of course the lends itself to the question of these organizations do not respect national boundaries we understand that and the discussion has been pakistan afghanistan but also they can also be more nimble and they can pick up one area and go to another area and somalia other weak states if you will what's to stop them and what are we  doing tactically within the territory that we're talking about here to prevent them from going to other areas and how do you assess those threats of those other areas as being hospitable if we have success in eliminating them from afghanistan congressman terrorists and insurgents do best in under governed or ungoverned areas they they thrive on that and they don't survive in areas that have effective rule of law and governance so what we're trying to do inside afghanistan is create first areas of security into which we can fill that vacuum with effective governance development hope for the afghan people so that it becomes more and more durable when you talk about outside afghanistan the same thing applies we see terrorists moving to places like somalia yemen where there is less effective governance i think our best way forward is to partner with those nations to try to increase governance we still need to compliment that as we do in afghanistan with precision strikes so you can allow leaders or sanctuaries to emerge so you've got to keep them under pressure as you do these other things so the thing about counterinsurgency or counterterrorism because there's a lot of similarities is there is no single answer it security governance development percentage and strength and i agree with that i think that those people who are questioning in our communities back home about the effectiveness of the strategy in afghanistan also recognizing the threat of the taliban's influence and the nuclear issue which is extremely important and is obviously part of the whole strategy or is this question about you don't necessarily need a whole nation state for al qaeda to operate in i mean this notion of it's all about afghanistan are all about iraq you know they need territory but it doesn't have to be large it could be square miles to train and to do some of their things and they can very easily move to another place even if we are one hundred percent successful in afghanistan so how do we respond to that notion other than the nuclear issue which is important how do we respond t notion of them picking up and going to other places and stopping them from doing that so the best way is very extensive extent teligent sharing with all our partners and then staying after him it's like following a criminal gang around besser give another thought on  e share general mcchrystal assessment on that it's a it's a comprehensive diplomatic intelligence and military broached it's needed the time this network the time of the gentleman has expired the gentleman from new jersey mr ranking very much in the chairman and thank you both for your extraordinary leadership and for your extraordinary service let me just ask a few questions of number one the iraq surge of two thousand and seven deployed as we know twenty thousand combat troops extended t or four thousand marines already in iraq and constitute intervention to help the iraqis clear and secure in neighborhoods to help them protect the local population and to help ensure that iraqi forces left behind were capable of providing security not w standing secretary senator reid's infamous statement that the war was lost and that the surge is not accomplishing anything they didn't back in april of zero seven the surge did create space for political so lucian and reconciliation my question would kept secret why announce it to the taliban so they can craft and employ strategies especially after redeployment begins some eighteen months from now and did either of you recommend that it be kept secret or go public third what's iran's role in that ghana stand today including the f p s is it increasing diminishing or staying the same and what are we doing about it and fourth is it true that the primary source of funding for the taliban is no longer the opium trade but foreign donations from the persian gulf countries and others what is our counter threat finance strategy for afghanistan will start on those starting with the last first i think we think that the funding for the taliban is probably about evenly split between external donations narco related raising and then money that they can raise from kidnapping and other things inside both afghanistan and pakistan neither the loss of one of those three would not stop them from operating they don't cost a lot and we think they could make up but we do have an extensive counter finance task force that focuses on this and tries to reduce that so i think we are we're focused pretty hard on it sir on the back to the first one on the surge iraq is very different from afghanistan but it's clear that we were informed by the experience in iraq and i was having spent so much time there into the situation in afghanistan what i learned in iraq that i think is a placable is that you must have an approach that is both counterinsurgency and includes counterterrorist capacity and then of course the counterinsurgency has to be holistic that governance and development parts and best i can very teams got to be shoulder to shoulder with us as we go forward and i think we're pulling that all of that together here we were late doing it in iraq i think that we are doing that now here and i i think it postures as well and just last point on on the timeline on july two thousand and eleven the key point for me is the president and the secretary's very public pronouncement of long term strategic partnership for afghanistan i think that changes everything i think that gives the afghans and the insurgents the afghans hope in the insurgents a lack of hope because there's not going to be daylight in the long term and i turned over to quick points thanks congressman on the first of all on the on the threat financing we have a very integrated robust effort both within afghanistan outside of afghanistan to look the challenge of afghanistan pakistan beyond which is an integrated effort which includes our intelligence agencies department of treasury our military diplomatic efforts i also want to highlight that within afghanistan itself our department of treasury agents on the ground are actually building within the afghan ministry of finance within their central bank their own independent threat financed capability we're mentoring with them and they're starting to get some impressive results secondly with regard to the emphasis that you place on the date that july two thousand and eleven the transition nations withdrawing their support from the war time they live in a very uncertain neighborhood so they have an ambivalence about the long term presence so the united states they won is here because of that day in afghanistan because  ly but increasingly they want to stand up and take charge of their own security that was reflected in president karzai his inauguration speech where his own aspirations over the next five years for afghanistan to stand up and be in charge of its own security with their army in place so that two thousand and eleven i agree with general mcchrystal it's a very good forcing function kind of day to get the afghans moving forward and president karzai has shown his support for that date publicly time of the gentleman has expired the gentleman from estimation remains a very weak government you said earlier much of afghanistan is governed still having a weak government a strong military frequently leads to unhappy results and many ports world  we've also had at best mixed success in trying to build a military as a unifying national institution in nations that don't have a strong national identity we try to do that in iraq and it appear military but obviously also members of the shia militia that was more loyal to al saud or did this great damage create the impression that that was a sectarian revenge killing not the execution of of justice in a society with a legitimate rule of law what is the what is the desertion right now where of those folks going we're going to make sure that the military we build is not going to dominate the government and how are we making sure that we are not training and equipping the forces that will be fighting for warlords in a short time i think that it's important i start with the fact that one of the things afghans fear most is militias in warlords there will be security forces that form afghanistan whether we form them or not they will form in their own defense and i think that it's important we form a national army and national police capacity or recognize the legitimate defense security apparatus or the vacuum will be filled by exactly what the afghans fear which is a return to strong militias that in many cases are ethnically based and rose with the departure of the soviets i think that there is an absolute national identity in afghanistan they don't expect the same things from their central government that that many other native western nations do they expect less but they do have an absolute sense being afghans before they are any other ethnic or or local identity they take huge pride in the afghan national army even though it is still a developing into t they would like to be secured and when i talk to afghan elders they thank us for being there and then they always say we'd like to be secured by the afghan national army we're proud of them but we will welcome you just until they're they're strong enough to do it so i think that rather than being a threat to  the government of afghanistan i think it's a major source of credibility as they go forward now clearly it's it has to stay under civilian control and i've seen no indications that that is not likely to be the situation i ask him b sign of it it is a symbol of pride for the afghan people it's a sign of hope that this country after thirty years of work and fighting can come together the afghan man a national army so manifestation of that  secondly the principles upon which the afghan national army were established were good principles inspired inspired by us and that was that this military would be under civilian control would respect the rule of law respect the people i believe very much that those principles are still in place what is the desertion right i've heard of twenty five percent is what is the desertion right congressman i'll get you that for the record it's not that high one of the things about desertion is many of the the young afghans who  enlisted in the army go home because there's not yet a good leave policy established there's also we're still working through issues of how they are paid electronic pay is that clearly the wave of the future but in many cases they go home to take care to see family great sense of family there so it's something and a significant percentage come back so it is a significant problem i don't want you to believe that it's not but it's something that it's less clear than it might be in another  member gets to ask questions democrat or republican we're now at the point where everyone treating these two hearings as one where every member of the republican conference on the committee who is here is had a chance to ask a question a number of democrats have not yet had to it was my intention to proceed so that everyone gets to ask  before we go back to alternating but we did not make that clear with the minority so the compromise i would propose is we alternate but those who have asked a question get one minute for statement and then we go back to the others in the future the intent that these rights are individual more than group and that every member should get a chance to question before we  go back to the alternating and at this point i will recognize the ranking member for a minute thank you so much mr chairman i would like my minutes and he can add his own minutes to mr burton of indiana thank you mr chairman thank  mr chairman helms recognize there was a question asked while ago about the international court and both of the witnesses said that they get back to us on that there's a story i want to talk about that was in that they wrote a book about have you heard of  people and a boy and they couldn't decide whether they should kill them or not because they were afraid they would alert the taliban to their mission and that they would all be killed well they decided after an argument lutrell said ok we'll let him go because we trust and they won't say anything fifteen minutes later two hundred the taliban came across and al qaida guess came across killed him killed his partners and left him for dead sixteen navy seals other navy seals came in a helicopter they shot them down when they came to rescue him and killed all sixteen now we've got these three navy seals that are on trial right now how do you say to these troops who are still on a mission out there the killing al qaeda leader what they should do should they have killed those three people should they have shot him right spots so they wouldn't alert the enemy that they were coming over the hill and if they had would they have gone to the international court would they have been court martialed by the united states and here we are court martialing three guys who under in operation amber attacked one of the leaders and arrested him turn him over to the iraqi military they turned it back over they said he smacked him in the mouth and they hit him in the stomach in your court martialing it makes no sense california ambassador watson is recognized for five minutes i want to think are two witnesses for this service to our country and the image that you serve to feel abroad i want to thank you for your periods and i wish you well now my question goes to the africa adds in the eight years that we've been involved in more what is it that is the lacking in their government and their experience in their commitment to their own where they could train their people to stand up and defend their own country let me start with the ambassador for well there's been congressman first there there has been as we've said extraordinary progress that has been made hold how many years has it been and how many years will it take to train them you see i'm looking ahead to that's why i ask this question and i'm looking at our financial commitment to be there at a time growing deficit you know how long do we have to commit for them to bring their defense force where they can protect their own country well  me turn to general mcchrystal who are the specifics but the president's strategy is very clear in that regard joe i want you to tell me from your experience what is it with the africans where they don't seem to be able to succeed on their own congress well in the they are succeeding they've had they've had great success then why do we have to have additional forces well the context over the last eight years congresswoman is this mission over the last eight years until recently has never received the adequate resources that have been needed those i'm not talking about our resources i'm talking about their own congresswoman they need  starting where they were in two thousand and one and two thousand and two we're talking about a country that had been at war for thirty years two generations of afghans without education let me stop you there because i'm watching my time mcchrystal you've asked for additional forces that go in we're giving a great deal the lives of our military our finances to a country that operates based on war and they can't seem to bring their people to a point where they can defend their own nation were shedding blood limbs and building a tremendous deficit that will probably never be close in my lifetime what is the element that is missing among their own people co agree with ambassador i can bury this was a society literally torn apart for thirty years the tribal parts of society the governance and they die at a higher rate than coalition forces now i would hope you know why the we have to be the international police and that's what i don't get with iraq and now with afghanistan maybe pakistan maybe iran but there is something in their psyche and what i think is happening is that we are fighting an ideology rather then at the end of a gun kind of thing and i don't know for their boundary lines into other areas are we having to maintain a force there in perpetuity general i don't believe we will i do think we need to have a strategic partnership to reassure the afghan people but they want to defend themselves what they want is time and space and opportunity to build their nation well and i'm going to give you back my time mr chairman i don't see any into it if we're going to put our people on the front line and put the resources behind why would they put up you know i just think there's a lack somewhere in their ideology that you know we need you to help us defend ourselves and so i'd rather invest the money elsewhere than there you know back the time of the generosity has expired the gentleman from california mr rohrabacher is recognized for one  minute thank you mr chairman let me just note for the record that i am we disturbed with a policy that has ended up with giving me one minute to express my opinions and to ask questions of the very important hearing considering my background on afghanistan so i'm sorry i apologize to the two witnesses i'm going to say some things i just have to say quickly number one thirty thousand troops more troops in afghanistan to means thirty billion dollars more a year my experience in afghanistan tells me for a small portion of that we could buy the allegiance we could earn the goodwill through payments to tribal leaders and village leaders throughout that country without putting anybody at risk number one i'd like your reaction to that number two general your statements about afghans fearing though their militias is disturbing to me dramatically deliberations having been to afghanistan i i believe that there are large swaths of the country that are not sufficiently secure and that the introduction of additional troops actually could make  dispositive difference i don't believe this is like vietnam and i think the better the president our new president deserves the benefit of the doubt at least at this time in history having said that the policy deliberations were a little unusual general mcchrystal the paper you wrote got leaked in advance of the president convening formal reviewing deliberations and ambassador i can bury your memo or in the old days we would have called  telegram also got leaked and they represented seemingly very different points of view and i just wonder if each of you might comment on whether what you think about you know developing foreign policy by letting  occurred are are absolutely regrettable now against that my own views during this process i want to emphasize congressman at no time did i ever oppose additional troops being sent to afghanistan indeed i thought we shared and shared general mcchrystal security assessment as he had written and in his analysis security in parts of the country were deteriorating security situation is serious today in many parts of the country against that the only way then to move forward with regard to troops is additional troops are needed to deal with those who are going to going to come back to you on the part to hear about governance i think your point general mcchrystal did you want to respond i would i agree with the master i can bury the leaks made our job harder the differences between our views are really not very large at all but selective leaks made it look like they were we were shoulder to shoulder on this thing throughout and and i i absolutely regret the leaks ok thank you let me go back then to i think we're where you are headed mr bascomb and gen talked about the desire of ghana's afghanis essentially is to have some kind of government that functions and in a predictable way that protects the security mr bastow you expressed some skepticism about the current circumstances being able to meet even that kind of threshold i want to give you both an opportunity to talk about because there is some of the skepticism up here is we're back on a government that is seen as frankly organized thuggery it's corrupt it doesn't deliver services officially and frankly the taliban unfortunately is and the fact of alternative i'd like your comments and we both share the importance of the need for a legitimate government respected by its people credible  we have two challenges on the civilian side the afghans have two challenges one is at the national level stablish met national level governance their congressman we do really have a lot to build upon there's good functioning ministries they need more capacity we think are programs that we have moving forward are well focused or greater challenge though is at the local level the areas where general mcchrystal forces and the afghan national army right now are dealing with this areas of insecurity out in some of the provinces specially in the in the south we're working closely with the afghan government our military to try to develop the right kind of combinations of service delivery and governance that as security is brought to a provincial area or to a district that shortly behind that government can start to take hold service delivery can take hold and you start to have credible governance i don't want to underestimate though the challenge that we're facing in this second category last point congressman president karzai his inauguration address that he gave recognized for one minute thank you general i want to second my colleagues concerned about the treatment of the three navy seals now facing a court martial for actions taken while apprehending a terrorist who cost the lives of four american security guards court martial is very serious business i don't think it had to be this way and i'd like to ask what alternative actions might still be taken in place of a court martial in formal counsel's formal counsel's non punitive letter of reprimand the point i want to make is that there's ways of dealing with this is issue assuming there's an issue here at all far short of court martial and second if acquitted general will these seals be given the opportunity to be restored to full fitness and duty will their careers a black mark which has a very harmful effect on morale congressman that incident happened in iraq so appropriately i don't have the details of the incident nor do i have any responsibility to be inappropriate for me to talk about that case i do believe however that the chain of command in the process has been extraordinarily good across the services providing fair hearings for people the time the jumma six has expired the gentle lady from california miss recognized for five minutes thank you mr chairman terrorists terrorism thrives in poor economy in futures for this citizens consider that their future hopeless where there is lack of infrastructure education health care roads sewer systems and terrorism thrives in areas where the citizens believe that they are being occupied by outside forces i'm concerned about the lack of focus on the civilian surge in this regard because i think that is the balance to what occupation being an occupier requires in his speech at west point the president dedicated most of his time to military might and he just only once mentioned  civilian side of the equation and so you know you both have said and other leaders in the military and throughout the diplomatic corps really agree that the way to one major way to secure stability is through the use of smart security where we would win the hearts and and the minds of the civilians and we're talking about afghanistan right now of course so i ask you what resources are currently being dedicated you said a little bit about that to smart security and in the years to come here's the main question what additional resources do you need how will the administration from out this smart approach over a strategy has been clear that the military effort is a necessary effort it is not a sufficient effort but ultimately the need for good governance to be established in afghanistan for the economy that allows afghanistan to be a sustainable to have a sustainable country all important i do believe that the president's strategy and his way we're going about now the implementation does address the essential government services that are needed essential pieces of the economy again all of just quickly mention agriculture we see the absolute need for agriculture to help improve security to help improve the economy let me just interrupt a minute because you did say this and i i really respect that but tell us where of all congresswoman how many guys were in the surge the civilian surge has been ongoing we were soon to triple our presence over the ground in the past year so the surge is not something that we're ready to launch we're going to add to our capabilities on the ground our areas of emphasis are in the areas of focused on what's necessary in the economy in the areas of agriculture we're focused in the key areas of government in helping the afghans develop further rule of law law enforcement were focused in the financial sector helping the afghans to develop the capability for more revenue collection critical if it's going to be a sustaining economy well let me interrupt for one more minute because we only get a little bit of time we know we're sending thirty thousand troops are we talking about a tripling of the surge of from one to three people or from one hundred to three hundred one thousand to three thousand i mean give us some idea what we're talking i was what at the start of this year before the president announced his strategy in march reflecting the under resourcing of afghanistan we had a little over three hundred civilians in afghanistan and at the end of january of next year we'll have one thousand and we're continuing to grow beyond that it's an impressive gains that we're making and it's an all government effort department of treasury's on the ground the department of agriculture the drug enforcement may not look like what you traditionally think we've got military partnered with his who are out doing agricultural development helping with governance enabling the civilian expertise and so i think it's key that we understand we're really trying to do this with every part of our  our capacity that we have thank you very much lead some of this and i think that's noteworthy before my question i want you all to succeed the downside the gravity of the downside to not succeeding is very apparent with that said mr ambassador and this was touched upon a moment ago your cable to president o a a month ago was decidedly pessimistic about afghanistan's governance capacity as well as the potential for success of our military efforts what changed when i wouldn't characterize views ever is decidedly a pessimistic concerns expressed with the president's decision we have a refined mission we have clarity at this point now with what means we're going to use to move forward resources appropriately matched against that and you've got with the proper combination of ends ways and means i'm confident now as we move forward congressman time in the gentleman's expired the generally from california from texas recognized thank you mr chairman and thank you for convening this hearing in the way that you have done it you've been true to your word i appreciate your leadership let me thank both of these distinguished public servants i had the chance to greet them and i want to thank them again for their service and it was good to see both of you in uniform today ambassador you are not it was good to see you general in iraq and of course you know that i have visited afghanistan today the president received the nobel peace prize and i salute him and believe in him that he is a man of peace he defined for those esteemed audience members a question of a just war but let me quickly say to  believe that we have a major dilemma and i would call for as i speak right now an immediate beginning of negotiations to end this conflict and that would be the only way that i could concede the possibility of any troops being added  to afghanistan and i'll tell you why i'd like to submit into the record very quickly mr chairman an article by jonathan domi lessons from the soviet occupation in afghanistan the united states and nato ask unanimous consent  let me let me indicate what was that came out of that article which is so true the afghan government urgently needed to establish legitimacy ethnic tensions were underestimated afghans were highly intolerant of foreign troop occupation and a military solution was proven not sufficient the viet nam war in one thousand nine hundred eighty six or two hundred thousand troops committed to viet nam and at the in the peak of the war five hundred forty three thousand and fifty thousand of our treasure lost gen the cia has indicated that afghanistan is four thousand feet versus up in the air versus iraq that is flat you asked for thirty forty thousand troops you got thirty thousand what is your commitment to protect troops as they travel up into those mountains and to save lives might my commitment absolute our rules of engagement provide them every responsibility and right to defend themselves we believe that the equipment we're providing them is as good as we can we'll continue to do that better and i'll push for every asset we need to protect their their well being i thank you for that i think the terrain is so difficult it brings to mind the pat tillman story  that opportunities for friendly fire and loss of life are heightened there is a theory of clear hold build and transfer president karzai today said was that this week with secretary gates that only fifteen years before he can maintain a military with his own resources embassador while we engaged with a country which i have great appreciation and want to see helped with political help and social help and economic help and  constitutional help and helping to make sure that they treat their women right and keep their schools open how are we going to in essence fight against this concept that afghans do not want foreigners on their soil and have a government that  take fifteen to twenty years before they can maintain their own military that's fifteen to twenty years that the united states will have to be there guarding them why can't we go the political and social economic right ambassador the doctor excuse  me the afghans first and foremost they do want to take control of their own sovereignty we have to we have to appreciate the baseline that they begin at and velvety articulated that the afghans though they need security right now to help them get the time and space so that they can fully take charge i think we're on a good path forward as we see articulation of this july two thousand and eleven timeline where the afghans will start to move in take responsibility for security president karzai clear in his inauguration speech about his own goals but we have to be clear the afghans the on that period of time they are going to need our let me have a quick intervention please if you don't mind this article says that by the time the soviets realize that only a political solution could in the conflict they lost the ability to negotiate ambassador what is the strategy for going in now and getting the parties to sit down and be engaged with karzai warlords taliban governors and this very weak government and the united states and they don't where are we now sitting down and beginning the negotiation to panned over the responsibility to the afghan government are we doing that as we speak well congresswoman we have a very clear head right now with the eventual transfer as afghans develop national security force capability yes we do have a clear plan politically president karzai has made clear and again this  militarily is expired the gentleman from texas mr mccollum is recognized for one minute i'm chairman of pakistan's always been in my view the epicenter of this war on terror is where al qaeda has sought safe haven ramzi yousef world trade center bomber his uncle shaikh mohammed the history of the pakistani i s i has not been a good one they tend to side with the extremists same time help us with high value targets as this improved and what do you point to work better with the pakistan intelligence service congressman my my official responsibility is that the borders of afghanistan we do however have a close relationship with the pakistani military so that we build up a partnership against the problems on both sides of the border it still has a long way to go i am absolutely committed like our intelligence agencies are to improve on that so that our shared strategic goals are met what is the influence of iran in afghanistan right now it's both positive and negative there are a number positive things they do economically and culturally there's always the threat that they may bring illicit or inappropriate influence in and we watch for  that time of the gentleman has expired the gentleman from california mr cross to recognize for five minutes thank you very much for chairman again good hearing it's timely i thank both of you for your service to our country mr ambassador a lot of  dancers specific question we expect his cabinet announcements to be made relatively soon within the next days before the parliament goes on its recess because nominees would have to be approved by the parliament some speculate should got a lot of very well qualified people in it the minister of defense interior finance commerce agriculture education health these are world class ministers their challenge because they don't have the human capital right now given the third  think that part of this whole effort of is akin to nation building because you're not going to be able to have a solid military are a police force unless you've got the credibility and you're relatively corrupt free  what are the since we're now taking over the training especially in the police force and i've been there several times and i've heard all sorts of anecdotal stories i won't go into that talks about the dismay of our ability to do so we're taking over the complete training that the police force now is a correct nato training mission afghanistan is part of that so it's the whole coalition is is doing that's ok but are these people with police backgrounds training the police or is this the military training the police and are we going to end up with a paramilitary police force it's a combination there are policemen that have been hired to do it from european partners and then there are some military and as well ambassador back to you on the smart power issue and i've been a big proponent of that i've talked to the secretary of state about this we solved but the investments of the housing that got involved in corruption and eight million dollars other anecdotal stories where money has been wasted  housing has been occupied it's been substandard what efforts are we pursuing to correct those kinds of investments in infrastructure we have many learning from iraq let me let me i we have many let me highlight to first of all in terms of how we're contracting we think that we're designing contracts in a much better way that improve performance and transparency secondly in terms of water no oversight we have many means for that i want to emphasize that we think the most important gentleman has expired the gentleman from florida mr bell rockets is recognized when you mr chairman thank you gentlemen for your extraordinary service to our nation general mcchrystal in response to senator mccain's question the other day about the inability to unless bin laden is captured did you mean that there would be u s presence in the theater until bin laden is captured and can your plan ever fully could succeed if bin laden is not captured congressman thanks for the opportunity to expand on that because a very short question along here and i believe that al qaeda can be defeated overall but i believe it's an ideology and he is an iconic leader so i think to complete the destruction of that organization it does mean he needs to be brought to justice it will be another of the steps however i don't believe that simply getting him into that organization i think it's one step in it thank you t world war two and in korea i strongly support our troops i want to thank all of you who are here with us today for your sacrifices and your service my belief that the sacrifices made by our men and women in uniform should always be acknowledged and honored let me just say from the get go i think many of you may know that i opposed the  war in afghanistan from day one for many reasons but now moving ahead many of our military national security experts agree that the presence of our troops continues to fuel the insurgency in afghanistan and give qaeda recruiters around the globe i also happen to believe that and disagree respectfully disagree with this overall prior eight year strategy and the strategy today i was glad to hear you respond because i was going to ask you about osama bin laden if in fact that his capture is part of the strategy and a benchmark in terms of the success or failure this effort but let me ask you how does an increasingly  expanded and costly role for a united states troops and i began to stand serve united states national security interests in combat in al qaeda if it feels anti american sentiment among populations sympathetic insurgents in afghanistan and pakistan somalia yemen and elsewhere in the world also let me just say that many have said and you probably disagree but i'd like to hear your response to that to complete this mission will require about four hundred to five hundred thousand troops possibly eight to ten years possibly a trillion dollars do you believe that to be the case or not or why do we hear that so often now i'm finding let me just say i'm extremely concerned about the strain on our military members and their families in the face of this expanded indefinite commitment in afghanistan the physical psychological and logistical strain and the u s armed forces under the stress of two wars to me seems to be untenable and so just know that we're going to do everything here to support our troops and to help them transition back hopefully soon to live with their families but i'm very concerned about the stress and strain it's taken thank you congresswoman thanks for the support for the troops and know how much it's appreciated predict at this time of year i think to step back i think in terms of our national interest the eventual destruction of al qaeda is critical and not just for the u s but for the world and that region as well i think the role of afghanistan first is denial of a location for al  return to which i believe they would but i also believe that the taliban have an absolute linkage to al qaeda and for them to resume power even over significant areas of f this damn would create instability in the region opportunities for al qaeda but also wider instability that would cause significant problems for the world not it would not be localized at that point i believe that it's important that afghans secure afghanistan your point about the concern about foreigners there's an almost an a body like response in in many cultures to foreign forces there and that's understandable xenophobia is a natural part of any society even greater in that area i think it's therefore important that we work as hard as we can to enable the afghans to secure themselves they want to secure themselves they don't want the taliban there and they want us there only long enough and only in large enough numbers to enable them to get there i wouldn't ask for a single force more than we had to have simply to give time and space to get the afghan national security but the anti american sentiment that is spurred by this in pakistan and yemen and somalia and other parts of the world i mean you  try to nip it in the bud here it pops up somewhere else it's a danger i would offer that one of the greatest resentments in afghanistan and pakistan now is their perception that we deserted them in one thousand nine hundred nine when the russians pulled out we ended our involvement with them and they believe that that we walked away from them so i think it is a balance i think it's i think we need to give as much help as they need to get on their feet and then i think we need to help them stand by themselves the time the are in some people's views very difficult if not more so from alexander the great to the soviet union but i appreciate the job you're doing and we want to try to give you all the support that we can here as a member of the intelligence committee i have a little insight about some of the challenges that yeah that maybe others don't know but i would like to take my remaining time and yield to the gentleman from entitle to five minutes i was just listening for a second i was told that he sought one minute and i am now recognizing he i now recognize and the only person left in this comm cooperation i think for the first time in several years it's my impression to use a football analogy that they realize and have no problem with united states being the quarterback of night just like to be in the huddle when  place called and you think the administration have done a good job of including them in the huddle and it makes a tremendous amount of difference in the added to to an atmosphere where all of these parliamentarians from member nations gather and as the president organization for the next year i want to thank you both for being that i would encourage you every way you can to always speak of this as a coalition led by and not going it alone i think i was on active duty during the vietnam days and i saw that critical mass of public support that's necessary for a prolonged overseas deployment sort of just fritter away and i've been worried that that would be the case in europe and we have course some people here with our situation in terms of our own economics but it's important in my judgment to maintain this critical mass of public support for the coalition and so anything you all could do including reiterate from time to time that we're not there to westernize anybody we got off the beam in iraq talking about we're going to create this western style democracy will work we're not there to westernize afghanistan in my view and i think that  sphere of influence that this poisonous philosophy has and hopefully limit it to an area where we can monitor and contain a to hopefully a weather and i like a plant without water two questions real quick on the civilian surge talking with some of my colleagues and people who have been there there seems to be a bottleneck on the civilian side with respect  to getting projects actually on the ground you get people there but they can't get through the maze of whatever i know we were stolen blind in iraq sometimes because we didn't have civilian money and coordinated i would really encourage you to do that because i think that it is both obviously it is a critical part of our success the other thing i would like to talk about is the your insight into what you think the chances of there are the state of play in pakistan of course is a large large part of this particularly if we're going to try to contain on the border and some  any thinking about what will happen if we pull back into the more populated areas in terms of our concentration of troops how do we maintain important questions to be unfortunately answered at some other point because our time has expired and we only have zero time remaining on the clock on the floor gentlemen from arizona for one minute i think the chairman and sorry this has been plowed general jones less than two months ago just around two months ago gave a pretty rosy assessment of the situation there stating that there were fewer than  hundred al qaeda members in afghanistan at present there was a diminished capability of the taliban to destabilize the government question i have is eighteen months from now will we be in a better position than that or maybe you disagree with the assessment in the first place but john mcchrystal you have a comment that i outlined in my initial assessment my view of the situation with just one not in response just one point i wanted i think we owe it to your freshman absolutely and congressman a lot it's been since is not an effort to keep us from voting on the floor though is it not german a lot's been said over the course of the morning about the about the a great sacrifice of our men and women in uniform and our allies i also want to say for the record just emphasize the sacrifice that our great civilian team is making on the ground on the thirteenth of october we had two civilians one from usa id travis gardner thirty eight years old from nebraska and jim green from the department of agriculture fifty five years old from they were in a convoy with the united states military in a stryker unit and their convoy was hit by a d s down in spin boldak i always make a point when i learn of that kind of trauma that are civilians are facing given the call i get the call both that night and i ask how they were doing they said they're doing great and they said that very humbly and with great great sincerity we're just doing what we were sent over here to be doing and  couldn't be more proud of our civilian force on the ground to yes all right thank you gentlemen mr chairman thank you so much and some of our members would like to submit some questions to our great panel as we've said we think we thank you both very much our prayers really are with you for the success of these efforts and with that the hearing is