asian with nonunion pros now we're talking our collective bargaining session of contract negotiations with nonunion personnel union negotiations strategies with the fire board library highway if i could absolutely you earlier this afternoon i had spoken to the town manager about giving you a letter however he suggested that i come in person and tell have a letter that i originally wrote in the folder we have for members of our reserve police force that are retiring this particular season and i wanted to acknowledge their efforts many of them over twenty years on behalf of the town so if you bear with me david littlefield was a reserve police officer from one nine hundred eighty seven until this year twenty six years richard w richard  hundred seventy five dick actually was a member of the original civil defense contingent and i worked with him back in the blizzard of seventy eight when i was a patrol keeping our radio  who came aboard in two thousand and three so over ten years of service for the community lou it actually worked on a part time basis as a dispatcher back when we were at the basement town hall for a few years so i'd like the board if you can find the effort to send them a letter of thank you because it's not just working details per se it was coming out in storms it was being available during our parades and community celebrations over a long period of years that these people provided service to the community and i'm hoping that you could recognize the efforts they put into it thank you we want to go first well in relation to the call i just wanted to say that i received a forward of the e mail one of them from one of the parties it was  andrew private on for turner road and i called he was very polite his you know again he felt bad as his email said but you know he basically communicated it because of the traffic coming to a stop and for turner road is at the corner of one forty and one fifteen it's kind of the first house and it's kind of set back so it you know and his comment was that you know if you had to run fifty people off the property and it basically because of the traffic jam people are looking for a spot to relieve themselves a lack of a better phrase and so that that was the issue that one of and inspector caspar responded to it and let him speak to it but the music he called and he went out investigated and called back and the music was turned down and that was and that was again early i believe around six thirty or seven o'clock at night those are kind of the things that two things we ran into the concert ran a bit late on saturday evening ran past eleven fifteen by about ten minutes and it was that was the last night of his event and kind of rambled on a bit again that's what our observations were complaints on the running lights from from not from a noise standpoint not a no you have a question from the war george just those of asian i guess you thought the event rain better this year than previous is the number of protective custody is was down  down significantly in terms of the protective custody issue which has been a driving force of focus for the department certainly there are a variety of factors that i think went into a more successful about this year that was very noticeable first of all the weather was a better format in terms of it wasn't as hot and humid as it had been in previous seasons which meant that people weren't using drinks to cool themselves off with the intensity that we've seen in previous years it was also a slightly smaller crowd this year about eight to nine percent fewer fans actually came to the concert as compared to the capacity for the previous two years we also did  as much as we prepared for other shows we put even more effort into being set for this particular show knowing the dynamic that we had experienced in the previous years with the increasing numbers of custody but having the resources and the cooperation not just from foxborough fire stadium security the state police we had a contingent of inspectors from the alcohol beverage control commission come up and work with us in the watts and monitoring activities within the stands that was very helpful so it was a variety and certainly the the competence of the police officers that work the event in terms of keeping things under control so the event went off safely no significant injuries to fans and or staff members  and i think if anything the traffic situation improved we did hold a lot until we said we were going to on the friday show till two o'clock we were in frequent contact myself and lieutenant stuart with walpole because we realised our partnership with them was critical to having future events and in talking with a despatch on both friday and saturday they did not have the significant backups in standstill traffic that they had had the previous two years there was back up on saturday in foxboro along one forty and may relate as people cut across one a and one fifteen the come over towards the stadium that impacted turner road so it was not moving but one forty backed up but that was an hour and a half after the lot had opened which meant the traffic had planned to come waiter and the greater volume of traffic was trying to get into the lots from three o'clock on not on the early side those are just some of the observations that we had when we were talking about this particular concert afterwards it is a challenge when we have back to back shows whether it's taylor swift or the new england country music fest just because  of officers that we draw from although for the special event itself but the preparation with a small staff that we have to get everything lined up and again it goes back to the competence of the people that i work with that we can pull these things off just drops a vision there were three select when that came up to think it was saturday night and we were fortunate to be given a tour of the medical facilities as well as how your offices did get a chance to see the behavior of the fans and it was more civilized than i thought it was it was actually quite well what will handled so as feedback from i think the rest of us that it was a very professional operation  saw my point of view is pretty much what you heard from chief o'leary plays a huge factor the last three years we haven't had the humidity and so that plays a huge factor when dealing with the folks  and you know being out in a sign and being in a hot environment and taking part in alcoholic drinks and stuff like that don't play as huge of a factor plays a factor in some sense but it doesn't play as huge from two thousand  nine the numbers were high but the last three years very consistent we still deal with about two hundred forty two hundred fifty medicals majority of them more than half i would speculate are dealing with band aids for blisters asprin those type of things then then you have some alcoholic related scenarios but the volume looking at the statistics very consistent and it's always what we prepare for i think the full areas corrected you know prepping our people planning it and getting the resources are available play a huge factor but we can't do it without our people being ready being prepared and and doing the job that they're doing we were making our way to find both chief o'leary and chief hatfield that was really helpful and so informative to hear input from the stadium advisory committee and in addition to your input always an education for me every time i go up there appreciate that and really appreciate how well things operate given what you are dealing with because even though numbers are less the intensity of it is still there whenever an incident michael boynton came to our meeting with a couple of his elected officials and it was some dialogue that there was going to be reach out with the i'm assuming that all happened with the fire chief and the police chief and staffing we're talking about the local roads til now but along route one up to where the reserve is on route one that was the biggest issue coming down was are issues on route one between foxborough in the state police and the traffic not that i was made aware of i mean it was slow traffic coming in at different times but i know in meetings that we had with stadium staff and walpole police in particular you know the requests that the chief stillman had made to the stadium for staffing issues rick complied with and again having a conversation with him after the show he did not report any particular incidents that were grave concern and again we i was myself in contact with his desk to try to monitor the situation of the roadways as the day was evolving to make sure because i saw that as a critical component of a successful what bet was not having walpole residents down here with pitchforks and torches to talk about future concerts and i think we accomplished component ok thank you in the last question i'm surprised bobbie saying it was a wanted to cause maybe out of both nights to your advisory committee if i was a resident i doubt i would have the number or look in the paper it's not on m where we've got the integration between fire service stadia police services and state police ok so that we can address those issues whether it was let's say a speeding car on  when we visited the stadium we did not go in not street and was there an issue at county fest what with you know taxis dropping off limits dropping off and standing and also you skolem over on the other side between the mcdonald's and the papageno those we did put up new signs in that area to prevent the taxicabs from we're gated in that particular section under emergency order i did have the motorcycle patrols moniteur the area by the entry point to the terminal but we didn't have as many cabs as we do for a football game or even parent pick ups i think we had a greater problem with taylor swift even though they had a parent pick up at a methodology that people could come back and pick up the children down by the north excuse me the south shopping plaza to taylor swift but i think it was more problematic at the home opener last week in terms of the congregation of cab so that's an issue that we've got to try and work out so those are mcdonald's yes they would we don't have any unless st i didn't have time to put them up on a door street but they will be i understand there is a problem there at the counter not street right at the corner of north where the entry point is to the terminals yeah could you do ok just one last question when you mention pitchforks that remind me of it i did get a call from some private lot owners who were concerned about the fact that there were cars permitted into certain lots at the stadium to prevent that huge back up to four other so and they expected that all lots would open at the same time so i just want to put that out there as you go forward with other events if there is a way to take that into consideration too while at the pre meeting we clearly we had a pre meeting the line up for it we clearly announce the fact that some people that were coming in to watch were not going to be tailgating that they were going to be going to the businesses that were at paid trip place so people were put in a storage lot they were told by both stadium security and my m personnel that they couldn't start their tailgate and those people were directed to go into the stores and restaurants which they did we wouldn't allow any tailgating in those areas until when i was with george and we were look george actually has experience with the counting of the cars and it looked like there was about four or five hundred cars there at the time that were related to that right a lot of people  made you know we have three thousand seats and rush drives on patriot place and it was clear that we work going to try and interfere with those businesses that were expecting customers i haven't taken a look at it in enough depth mr sullivan you know i always feel lucky that we survive number one that we don't lose any officers to significant injuries  and that most of the fans apparently did have a great time but as we go forward in preparing for the next season you know we'll make adjustments to the game plan that we put into place because small things might have occurred that by changing a practice we could help mitigate if you go back to your rookie is cheap back in seventy eight with the shows up there  old football games the last monday night of all time until what came well you know certainly the times that we had at the old stadium re much more difficult to police because we lived in a different society eighteen year old drinking was in place which was another social problem so it was much more difficult no communication if you can imagine doing a stadium event and you only have three portable radios for the entire police and staff so just a different time different anxiety levels about been significant over the past thirty five years in is ongoing but i agree that we always have to be proactive and looking at ways to always improve i think the big improvement this year was getting back medical facility at the north end zone brand new i think that worked outstanding versus what we had last year but we just always need to be on our game we have to be looking to be proactive make sure that our people are ready make sure th resources are ready and can contest continuously had the meetings to make sure that everybody's concerns are dress well i think that that's the the focus that we have to always put into this event anybody in the audience wish to events and concerts so and i know you committee works hard to say thank you for voluntary here it's a it's a pleasure i would just like to comment just a couple of things from our perspective maybe even more porta potties out in a public area i'd say you know one forty one forty one fifteen i would also advise in terms of potentially new rules for the penalties for being late in terms of and time you know that's something that we kind of put into bon jovi you put into born jovi based on the fact that it was so we allowed a later time you had allowed a later time and i think that's something that goes in front of the town potentially or would then be written in and  then my other takeaway is that i'll call a police station and put our name in so if there are any noise related calls that we because that's what we do we call the stadium and hotline and say look when you get a call rela apply for the license say in a scene that's going to be a condition of the exception so the license ok if we formalize it yet and i think that bill had worked on some language for the bon jovi situation the other ones had already been licensed right so for the next murphy had approached me on going i did speak with the attorney and they at the state ethics commission she directed me to certain sections of law that i photocopied to give to the town manager so that the stadium would pay for the expenses of me going down and making an observation of this particular  new gillette stadium show up but specifically funded by private organizations in the past i've been going through the town manager to the n f l trainers that take place in florida and the stadium has always picked up in the n f l the costs of my flight and hotel and meals mean you know i had tried to call a fix myself but if you recognize if you try to call before they will not talk to the person who's not directly involved so i asked the chief to check into that he did and this disclosure is a result of his conversation with the ethics division so i didn't feel comfortable with him going forward without first getting the  from the ethics that it was ok to do this and then also for you to be comfortable that he's doing it but the the benefit these getting is for the town and not a direct personal benefit if they just gone through the stuff that's listed  not try to be too picky but you know obviously airfare and accommodations breakfast lunch but things like special events and entertainment if we can strike that it just gets a little too to close something that you know i with the management of the facility get information that might be pertinent to any decision that the board would made to be able to share that with you and again it's the board's decision want me to go so if you don't want to go i actually think there's a lot of value because this is going to this could potentially have a significant impact on your operations on an ongoing basis so i think it's it's beneficial to dispatched to observe it i don't know if you want to wait until we get a formal proposal about this so we can actually know more about it the concern i have for that is you know once an application comes in you have a specific period of time in which to make a decision and i think you'd like to have the chiefs import long before you have to make that decision so if you if he doesn't go until two three weeks into the process it may one on discussion on merit pay again this is the third time we've had to hear a reason why well this is not this is this is new and i've asked cindy to come up to assist in the discussion but this is on the actual merit pay going forward ok all right thank you to that other portions already been resolved and we're working on completing that and going forward just for little history and then we can get into the discussion as you recall just over a year ago there was a new wage plan when into effect with new steps and  that time it was put rolled out to the department heads with a one day you know kind of take it or leave it approach and it was the majority when along with the plan and then at that pecos indicated that there would be a form of merit involved but i think the understanding for most of the people was that it was still going to involve this pay plan which if you think about it kind of makes sense because you voting for a new pay plan with steps if you're going to it complete merit system that you know it wouldn't make sense in in that framework at least in my mind but going forward from there we started the process of rolling out a merit system one did not exist at the time everybody knows that we had a committee that was formed of four or five individuals from town and then when cindy was hired last november she came in and started sharing that she got the forms into place and started to roll them out with department heads and there was a bit of pushback and then she was going to involve kevin in the process at that time and that was right around when he went on to mill military leave and it's been sitting there since so as i indicated to you we would start to roll it out again we did there was some minor adjustments to forms but everything else was in place we rolled it out again last week at the department head meeting and again there was some pushback and i think the reason for that is this this idea that we still have if you look at the  personnel by law there is a and that's what a lot of people for the years that's what they've been relying on the personnel by a lot talks about anything to do with benefits and things like that pay and it still has  this structured set up with the steps and all of that so there they're trying to correlate in their mind how we have steps do we have steps in america pay and how does that work  it's i think it's just it's a work of explain to them it's a work in progress and i think we just need a little bit of direction from the board actually where you see it going to we still have a step plan because eventually if there isn't going to be a step plan we need to take that out of the personnel byelaw and make it the complete merit system would that does that make sense and yeah i think that  and really should have been in conjunction with merit but it got rolled out first with merit to be introduced and i think steps is confusing when you're talking about marriage in america to be less than an entire step so it may make sense to change that to be a man max in its opinion and in between or keep a step range where you hire somebody at a step but the salaries still banded so it's it'll be they'll be a cap on it so people can't go beyond what would be considered a traditional step ten but that way the merit system could be introduced and it may help with some of the confusion when city rolled out you did roll it out with personal wage they've had a chance to review the the forms and all of that i think that they were on board gary do you agree with that ok so there are they're on board with that we started rolling out with department head and then we want to roll out with employees we saw the amount of pushback which was similar to the may timeframe when we had the meeting with apartment heads and so we just looking for a little bit of direction from you are you all of them and that we continue to go with a marriage is going to be completely marriage and we're going to be getting away from the step basis we do need you know some form of the step one when you hire somebody a almost a hybrid moving closer to the private sector compensation plans and you know i know that it's ford there are some things about it that you get a shaking head in question one of which is you know if it's a totally merit based plane the concept of coal doesn't exist in that and i understand the still has it honestly i think it needs a fresh set of eyes or first review because as it stands now i still think it has fundamental flaws in it and i think if it's it's not quite understood by the folks who it's going to affect i just see you know some some ng's id coming from it so i think it's before we get too deep into the fall if we can get together and say what it would really do we have in front of us what are we trying to implement because the last time we rolled that out there was just a tremendous amount of anxiety in misunderstanding and i think if we if we're going to implement that it make a wholesale change it would be good to at least collectively understand it and be able to support it in a few months ago i happened to be speaking to a select select  from the town at least on an on another matter and in the conversation at the end of the conversation she asked me by the way do you people have marriage plan program and i said yes and she said it's it was she she said this is the one the kevin pecos introduced to the town because that was the same program that was introduced to the t and that had been like about fifteen years ago and she said that that actually that evening there was going to be a war not a go at the annual town meeting completely redoing the marriage plan system because it had gotten in her words completely out of control so what i'd like to see if you're going to be investigating this i would like to see maybe a few could go to the town of east and talk to these people see the new warren adekunle and find out what with the problems that they came up with why they felt they had to completely rewrite the whole program and  so maybe we can avoid the problems that another town with a similar system had so that's what i'd like to say i agree with john and ginny actually i would envision a merit system typically is relates to management performance not staff performance so perhaps you are seeing what easton has you know developed could be interesting to see how they approach that  i think that having goals and objectives for management lends to a full merit system looking at steps i thought that the steps went into place so that again there could be a more gradual travel along that range over the timeframe that the employees are here so i guess i would be curious again to recheck where our steps are related to steps of other union employees and see how they compare in a stepwise fashion because typically if you're in a mixed environment negotiate your contracts and then you're looking at having some similar type of result for your non union non management employees management is a different story you go you're doing the same budget process say if you end up with an overall increase of three percent for union employees for whatever they're getting then from a merit perspective you'd end up with an average of three percent so someone who exceeds standards could get a for someone who doesn't  get one or two you know so that's how you balance that that's i think to see how easton compares to that and maybe a couple of other big towns too james i'm wondering if this is a case of we're trying to fit a round hole round peg in a square hole we're taking a private way of doing business and putting it into one of the sectors of the town and i you know it did come quick but when i saw that you know it's a step plus the merit in its easy to say kevin you know i was out of commission in the last couple months but you know the work getting up to the december vote plus a january february march april may with a h r director and i just have not heard any good things about the process in the understanding and getting to the end and we basically settled to give everything everybody the same which i think was not the right thing to do for a lot of people but collectively it was the only thing that we could do but to go back and try to fix it i think it's just too broken to fix right now especially where we're trying to get a town manager  i'd be all for for scrapping the process and going back to the steps just like the majority of the other towns do have some type of a little easier to plan a little easier to  to work through that process here you know the town manager it is somewhat of a political position as you've seen some last a year some last twenty years we were lucky to have in the last for so long but i don't want to put this into a system where we could be revisiting it every couple years based on how a town manager runs the process you know its town manager h r department heads and staff and it all depends on that one position and i don't know if i want to put my eggs in that basket again right now so having said that i don't know where that leaves us with the by law and where we are right now to the next town meeting jim i agree with most of that but i think the spirit of this program saying tonight i interrupt you only because i also think it held back other employees from getting caught i think the whole thing has been flawed since the beginning i voted against it from day one because i didn't understand from you know employees of the town that had wall st you know good luck to you you never going to see another race again by people that were above them and saying you're all don good luck if you get any more money you're all you one and as far as just department heads getting significant you know i'll call this marriage thing a bonus you know in my my field i get a bonus from and it happens now and then you get a bonus from a happy so if you can to keep everybody together and happy and needs to be fair for everybody not just for the pot and has not just for individual employees but this thing has been a disaster and much to faber at least investigating find a way to doing this the right way get off on a little we're going to have a plan in place by late winter so that reviews can take place if reviews are going to be part of it or you know i don't know that you actually do because  even under the step process in order to get awarded a step you need to establish that you've met certain me cry goals and criteria goals and objectives so i'm going to task the already have the department heads to get their goals and objectives going we will continue on that process and i think we should at least have a review process which does not necessarily need to involve a merit plan but in order for them to get any kind of a step i think they still need to establish certain minimum criteria or criteria i mean prior to that whole conversation it was proposed that we do a bonus  situation for when people come in or have say show great savings to the community well the department or they get a bonus you know i mean i want to compensate our employees but i know there's no educational opportunities is no way to really jump ahead so how do you how do you feel we judge them on criteria that it doesn't exist for them you know i mean right i will tell you that  the frustration is not with the merit process that we created it goes back to their understanding of the pay plan their content with the forms content with the things that we brought forward to them it's their whole understanding of when the pay plan was introduced so the frustration is with merit but it's really because of what they understood or thought they were getting in this piece so i think it's it is a good idea to sort of start over i mean we may utilize pieces of it but i do think it's the wisest thing to do is to come up with a plan in its entirety including if it's going to be merit pay plan what is merit in its entirety as a package not pieces of it the cart before the horse things like that it needs to be all of it because the frustration comes from it's what they thought they were by and not yeah but it's i'm not sure that's entirely true there are some staff members that went through spent a lot of times in the goals and objectives submitted it yeah and then it kind of ended there they didn't get the feedback they didn't get to the next step so you know you bring this system you do it and then you w so that could be people do understand it and then they put their trust in the system and the system never got back to them so i think more people understood it than you you know you may imagine you know the feedback that we got in department head from the majority that's part of the problem is just you know there are many of the things that they're working on and will continue to work on with the personnel board there are many things in the buy was because of changes  legislation and we're just not keeping up with some of that she knows those and has already worked on those and those other ones i know you're concerned about the educational piece of it all of that will be looked at it will be run by personnel board employees and then be ready for the next town meeting right brianna will be anyone ever really made i think many of you may have seen my binder with twenty great flags on it i did speak with gary and told him i'm going to e mail him i attract all the changes that i'm recommending and send it to gary them or to sit with person a wage department heads with department says have to say go from there get the feedback come up with the plan roll out what we're hoping to make is changes get the feedback from the employees they really want to be engaged and they've been asking and giving feedback on some of the things that they would like to see things like that so there is a large project as far as the number of changes that really need to happen so this sort of needs to get done so it can be included because that piece needs to change and this has to happen first before that can happen so the personal wage byelaw will second scratchers perhaps we could get feedback on it within say three months or so so that we know it would happen because if it languishes on right then you want a crunch and then to submit to the advisory committee this is to engage the services of the collins institute richard kobayashi who presented last week to us and has offered us an agreement for fourteen thousand dollars there are other incidental expenses which are not included in this request but i have reviewed the budget with randy and there there is the ability within the existing budget to cover any incidental such as  when we get down to perhaps the two last two finalists there would be background checks that would cost three hundred fifty dollars each so though those incidentals will be covered so the amount requested is fourteen thousand dollars and i think probably the first question to ask is would the board be open to us in gauging the columns institute to strangely enough the search committee in the town of reading had in mind that they would like to include candidates from the private sector their thinking was consistent with some of ours and mystical way out she said you know we really don't do that and that was disappointing to me i was i was hoping to say that they would try to include a mix of people from a lot of different backgrounds during the interview process where he was interviewing the selectmen to try to get their read on and unfortunately it was a neutral to poor they still use them strangely enough they didn't take a candidate from the pulpit they presented they went with an internal candidate still pay the fee but anyway i just wanted to pass that on to the board i don't know if anyone else did any research did you yeah i spoke to the reference from burlington and also the reference from hanover and i actually did get glowing recommendations from them they thought that the process was well run it was very timely burlington took three months to accomplish it they had about twenty five resumes brought forward to their screening committee and then that screening committee narrowed it down to twelve with you know working with richard and his associate and then they brought forward three very experienced candidates and have had are happy with the outcome this is two years ago  hanover they brought forward three thirty year town meant managers with a lot of experience also and they were happy with the selection now they're having some political changes so perhaps that could change but they were you know initially very pleased with with their selection and with how the process went so you know i felt comfortable after speaking to the two of them that this was going to be a solid approach  actually thought we were going to vote on this at the last meeting so i did reach out and there were all positive recommendations in there was some towns that actually use them for more than one it was repetitive for for different  you seem like there's a mass exodus of that town i didn't ask about the private and i see a point it would be nice to get a fresh perspective on it you know in framingham there was a competitor in that up picking this institute over another one the other one was a little cheaper but i don't know i think what ginny is recommending is if we put it in the proposal the scope itself said the wording in the language will go towards the private and the public as the initial charge my big concern is we've got one hundred eighty days to do this from when when you were first appointed because that time doesn't go away i didn't have enough anxiety from this institute to say let's go out in and do another search i thought they were very good with what i saw a couple corky things we could probably address during the process but with one hundred  days to go out for bed which is going to take another month to advertise get it back in we're going to be we don't have much of a choice one hundred eighty days comes so you know  i don't think there's a big risk using these if we push if he would but my point is we're going to have to manage the process because they're they're somewhat fixated on their process to get a little bit of what i want to complain was they're going to try to overlay that process onto us and say this is the best way to go you know i my of my own thoughts about how to recruit professionals and if if they tried it in the i don't know how they pushed but if they tried it and didn't get the product that they were looking for and  that's my concern that we're going to get a cookie cutter process i think he also talked about how there could be certain situations like a say a long term selectman with some professional background that could potentially make that transition smoothly but i think it's kind of hard again to transition from the private sector to the public sector there are challenges no doubt it's a cultural minefield but it's just that you know it's the it's the culture of town managers that we have we're going to break away from it and that's all i'm looking for is a somewhat of a different perspective in tone governance and i agree with you on that i would like to see something of a different flavor coming to town and the same old same old because i was talking with james on the last process it wasn't on the board and it came down to  and then i asked well you know why don't you just go back out to bill and me so we didn't have time that would have been i think that would have been the third time then you have also in the process there you go through the whole process again up what if that happens this time we come through this whole process we've done fourteen grand plus expenses whatever it comes to and we come down the same old has two candidates and we don't want either one of them because we didn't go beyond that poor of you know than the normality of tel manages i mean there's a lot of good that nationals out there they could adopt into this no problem the last process was really flawed though you know i was one of the board members involved in flying it you know from the beginning and you know i think that really impacted the quality of applicants that came that ultimately came forward because you know there was an internal candidate and they had no guarantees  about what was going to happen and so i think it would have made sense just to do it again and bite the bullet and do it again at the time but you know learning from that i think hopefully now we have a clean process that we can attract really the top notch experienced town managers who are out there in addition to an attempt to try and find someone who might you know one option we've got a group in front of us that has a good reputation and credentials other than the private sector they just don't have that outreach but i think a little bit of work you are so you pointed out timing is valid i mean we were we were if we if we go any further we're going to wind up with a marathon and that will create a good result i'm saying is that if we do go with collins we can't sit back and let them manage the process for us is as much as you'd like them to we're paying them to do what we really have to be involved in and i think we have to be on point as to you know where we really see the town twenty years from now thank you we match up sort of our conversation with dick and say this is where we're going to be fun is a person that can get us there well i'm not disagreeing but we're five people but in the guy but a part of this process there's going to be a committee and there's also going to be you know in our packet a list of people that we would put out there that this organization would cost to be twenty people that they're going to reach out to plus bring it back to a committee they're going to do all that work and then sort it out to us for us five to say this is the way we think the town is going it may be valid in our minds but to get a larger group that the collins institute will interview i think is more important but what i was going to start saying was i think it would be more work for us so we're not just following like sheep to this group that been working really hard on this is going to be a list of people for the cause world to talk to as far as interview someone for mad calm department heads all kinds of people compiling a list of people that the reserve fund how you think this process go as far as finding the time and you agree with you but i haven't thought about it obviously as deeply as the board has i mean i i mean i i like john plaits idea about looking outside the kind of typical pool of people i don't think you'll have the same problem that you had last time that lorraine alluded to because i think this is a great job for someone and there's no one in it right now no one who wants the position so you know the field is wide open for people to you know if you feel like you're the best candidate you don't feel like there's someone who has an inside track to it so i think you get some really good candidates that's that's my feeling so this is a i think this is if you're a town manager by profession this is got to be one of the top places that you look to because of it you know it has to a wide variety of things that go on here see you would you would think that the before you think that's a good way to go yet so let me speak as a private citizen as well yeah i think i think it is as long as i think i would probe a little bit and make sure that they're comfortable recruiting people who are outside th kind of tight knit community of existing town managers you know it is a look at the guy who was here kobayashi was at his media he never came right out and said they were they had no experience with finding the  yeah and the fact that you found someone who said that they said we don't do that that's that that's a little bit worrisome but so i would just ask them about that make sure that they're comfortable recruiting from a wide pool of candidates people who are existing town managers and people in the private sector who are interested in that position checks and balances we have in place in the community we will pick at a later date to to do that the green allows you know seven let's say they bring in seven meeting we can't be on any similar committee probably in terms of interviewing and you know it's all just you know yeah yeah i mean if it's an open meeting you can certainly sit in the interviews wouldn't be the interviews would not be open but right can in terms of actual startup process as they're getting ready to prepare you know the production here they would interview many different people and it might isn't it worthwhile if someone interviewed of a bearing on this whole discussion the decision we're going to make you because part of the whole problem or part of the process of developing the marketing tool involves interviewing many people from the town so for example  i'm asking for input from board members as to community leaders who they think it would make sense to have interviewed by kobayashi and his associate some suggestions such as all elected board chair be interviewed attending an advisory committee meeting be great because they need to get a real flavor of the community and what people want and you know again the hope is with their knowledge of the people out there that it starts to click with them who's who's going to fit this and who bill and who isn't and so working with them and working as a board we would develop this suggested list and see if and he has said to me in discussion that you know depending on the information that comes out they sometimes recommend either even more outreach to get more input so that's where i think they would be helpful to us and you know if they feel that they don't have the right flavor yet of the town the other part of the process is for us to recommend a screening committee a group of people who wants the marketing take place and they have all the results back that they do the first read through of all the resume say if they got fifty resumes we would identify a group of people on the screening committee volunteers and part of what they will help us do is develop the charge for that screening committee exactly what the expectation is for them to do so once that's clear they get to work work through whatever the process becomes and bring forward candidates if it's not good i think we would all agree we would rather start all over again and then settle because this is too important this is the most important decision we make what's what what happens if you get it in january don't have a person does you have to appoint a different interim i know person or whoever's out you don't like hopefully the town would see that we were trying her best to address the problem but in let us continue but so to come up with this search committee i'm suggesting that we go through a process that all of us provide our thoughts on who might be individuals who could work on this committee and that we go through a ranking process similar to the goals and objectives where you know we list them all everybody gets a copy the spreadsheet we rank in order what we think is of most importance and then we can tally that and come up with whatever we decide is the size of the committee whether it's going to be potentially five regulars to alternate so the top seven numbers calculated would be those individuals and you know i think that that's a fair process i know we have actually received examples from other towns where  for example there's always somebody from the finance committee on it there's always the school committee or each selectman puts their own into the mix and you know i just think that we get a broader perspective if we can all see what each other have on our minds and then we can prioritize them in that way and then produce that result so that's what i'm hoping will start the process and again i was encouraged by the timeline report of the burlington situation and actually hand over to they moved pretty quickly but burlington was very pleased with the ninety day situation and the big town you know lots industry there lots of development not so not to kind of throw a negative in but i but the reserve fund transfer is a bit worrisome in that we are well that we will have spent down most of the reserve fund if we do this and the town manager salary and this early in the air that's that's  i you know i was present for the discussions that you're having and you know i think it'll be interesting to hear more discussion on that this i'd ask again tomorrow night you know when we discuss it with an advisory committee  this on our agenda is that there is a reserve fund transfer are that's item so this will generic enough this will be in it that this be considered as this is really as the thing that we need to get us  you know put to pull the trigger and it's so important you know so we'll talk about it so if all goes well and you're going to vote on this we can vote on the college institute we have the money we could vote to engage the subject to number one i can confirm the willingness to talk as were interviewed to be open to outside outside the box as part of the process and subject to passed several years ago which allows flexibility within the non school budget so that's actually one of the reasons why we've reduced the reserve fund to the level that it sat so the fact that you know we're requesting the amounts that we are at this point it doesn't concern me because i'm suspecting that with that flexibility iran and other we should be able to handle any other challenges that may come our way was the last point that you just made on this subject to the right so you know there are some choices that they can make here looking at the you know the in the administration budget there are some items there in the ministration budget he could make some calls as to whether or not you know he intends to use you know those funds for the particular line items within the budget where they were only voted as one line is expense so there is some flexibility there to get you get you off the ground but you know if there is a need for for that expense to use those funds that are in that budget for the many line items there than  you have some flexibility and so that that's the other option ok so i'd be inclined to go forward this would be a perspective that the board would want to look outside the thousand dollars with the caveat that i will contact them and they will agree to look at other private sector candidates get you know help obtain other private sector candidates and also prove the trade is subject subject funding and subject to funding because of the transfer is not approved we have to do something a second that and reduction under discussion that there was a proposal that was sent around that was more team but it also had on top of that incidental expenses so we're asking for fourteen we just made a vote for fourteen but if it goes over that i think the motion should be amended fourteen or i think just to reference the proposal that they sent us so ok so for fourteen thousand dollars plus plus incidental expenses as outlined in their proposal if everyone could email me a list of all of the names that you would like to have considered i can compile it onto a spreadsheet and then you can rank them and i'll compile the totals and we can bring them forward for public discussion and one right and so on and you know especially any thoughts you have for community members you know to include community members in the interview process and in the second list would be for people that would be on the talk about what we just mentioned all ask him in terms of timing you know when should we start this process is this something that he would come here and help us with or you know how would that work involvement with our stadium lease and you know a liquor license so i wanted what i did was actually i went back and looked at him when we did the we asked bob if he could enquire to whoever the board thinks do you remember you remember them i remember them yeah yeah so you know e i think there's business oh yeah that maybe maybe we should just take a look at it for you you know i was looking at from thinking the same thing but really  item number one that came to the top holding department heads responsible for employee actions is really an ongoing aspect of the day to day operation and very important and you know bob is working on that the new town hall we're in the you know that might be something that we could i know jenny has attended a lot of the water and sewer board meetings and i have some familiarity mate we can work with together and just kind of keep in touch with that in the in ter m establishing a strategy for maintenance of all time buildings and impacts i think that would be a good and important thing for bob to look at just again as part of the whole town hall requests that will be coming forward we have to make sure that we have identified the resources that would be necessary and i know there has been discussion you know you know bill you know has started thinking about what he would need to do in terms of you know perhaps working that into his existing system that he has a place which works really well for the schools so you know that might be something that pop could work on the financial forecasts working the school committee you know certainly  randi it's been an ongoing process and you know always working on that you know so i mean i think even if we just focused on five on those things the other items further down committee there's just odds and ends like the tear to study that has to be initiated for the fire station property in the back you know it's just amazing this is all gone obviously everybody got to shoot in a field goal if you look at these i mean the number one everybody out of five prioritize you know the number two everybody out of five out one person out of four they're all in sync the all boards him saying here with the media like a copy of this they're already have one the goals and objectives you have it thank you you might have to make the coffee coffee but it shows the board really has the same concerns you know so i think you know i think the the top ones really were kind of in it right now already so just to keep you know working to move those forward when we talk about the town hall article i think we'll have more discussion that could impact you know working with bob on that to well just to just to reiterate and to these these rankings were all done in a vacuum we didn't discuss these these were all our personal rankings and it is interesting how you know the top five is pretty consistent which tells us that those the board a unified vision of where we want to head i think that's healthy and i know that they've been ongoing and i'll probably not going to be solved in the next year or so but at least it's something that we a director we can give to our management to say we'd like to work on these things but the effort in the negotiations in the new mass law that came in took a lot of townspeople time in staff to try to come up with new policies in and by and so that's not as critical town hall was down a little bit now it's critical so it's coming up we're very familiar with this bob's very familiar with this is staff is but the new town manager it's going to hit him like a ton of bricks coming in if we if we say these are the goals and objectives so it's a little caution that there's going to be a little bit more of a grace period than last time and this has been sent out for vetting to town council has been some minor changes those will get updated to you so essentially what you're seeing here is what you guys are already looked at and of approved as the seven articles that you and thank you put putting the draft number in the date that that helps me more discussion on this and inviting the audience here on the board i just want to talk about article three the town hall plans as part was going to suggest that there be an interview that if we could have a couple of volunteers i'd love to volunteer jim and john ribot to yeah provide you an opportunity to be able to explain why we're here and what our plans are how we plan on potentially financing this you know to try and answer all those questions have now how we but how we've looked at lease options and the post office and all those different other options and so why we are going recommending the route that we're going and going to be a four part show  bob you already said he would do it yeah but actually bob called me over the weekend and asked and initially said you know the selectmen and he said the same thing that you said it really needs to come from some of the voice of the information needs to come from the permanent building committee a lot of the stuff we can reiterate what they're saying but they've done the studies in the numbers in the function but i think somebody needs to be there from the selectmen because this this table is the advocacy group to push this forward if we believe in it we need to we need to sell it just like all the other groups did for the other projects so but critical as is the permanent building committee with the graphics and the studies and the castle b s you know keep it simple and i did see the one that on cable access very simple you know these are the points this is why we think it's now is the time and these are the options that we've looked at and this is the merit different options have and don't have but this is not going to fly unless it's a collective group that can stand behind it and i think it has to start from this temple where the engineer who i work with john will figure out i'm just worried about schedule one when he g to this because there was a lot of other information to digest and you know i said reluctantly i really don't like tearing down buildings that the reason we saw the but at the end of the day the information presented in the think it was present in that same format you've  to just i just information say based on what i know now i think i can make a decision on which way to go and sort of you know we live what we went through i think two or three weeks ago you know how we came to a decision to move forward with the building and as difficult as  process i was also going to suggest if we could have castle blues come back and do the full presentation that we had originally been given when we first voted unanimously to go this decision route against to provide the information to the public so they can see it fresh from that perspective because that becomes a little more detail we could use we have cable we run that same meetings that have come back we  summarize it and have the people discuss it in the also one thing that i asked you randi is indulgence for one second if you could come up and talk about the money part of this article because that's one of the items we're hearing through at con members that they're seeing on the blogs and hearing from people on the street why do you need five hundred fifty thousand to do a set of plans and just so that everybody understands that this is a normal process the same process they went through in the high school on the library there's a certain percentage per the cost of the building that's how they derive a number so if you could just sure explain mr newton is the one who's managed these processes for the town for the last several years measured quite well and he's explained to me that typically it's somewhere around ten percent of the construction cost and i believe the estimates on that are you know the neighborhood of five million dollars it's not a dollar amount that is necessarily going to be  and rank them all we had i think the top three or four finalists command for interviews with the committee so to whittle it down now was the initial work but that can be a had done for a much smaller amount but this one here obviously given the price tag you know go through a similar process and the funding here is is in a stabilization account so it's not you know we don't have to borrow  you know at this point in time i think it's interesting just to draw some comparisons to the other projects that bob just referenced you know the latest major building projects that we've done those were not to step  special and the the whole program the whole project was voted on it at one time including the soft costs so here what we're striving so hard to do is to get the get just get the funding for the soft costs so that when we get to town meeting in may assume if this is approved and assuming that the work can be done in the in the six month time frame that we would have that the process has been a lot of questions about well you know we don't know what it's really going to cost but we will know what is really going to cost soon and we can get this article voted in the affirmative in november go to the biggest concern people said to proposal at this point time terms of funding is is going to be all debt no looking to sell the property or to ask the board to change the policy on the meals tax to include debt finance saying it's all debt it's going to be straightforward and simple and the only question is how much of it can be included meaning without having to you know raise  taxes so within the operating budget because as you know we've created some capacity over the last two years where we didn't have to levy to the limit to four to the tune of about four hundred thousand plus and the state has come in higher than pla the snow and ice deficit not one hundred fifty thousand so there's some capacity going in and then but i've got some detail forecasting work to do finalize free cash we need to get  this year's new growth certified which is a big incremental component to our taxes he says his office is working on that right now and it finished a very detailed revenue forecast for the next three years out and then bill you and i are both  independently looking to forecast out all of the budgets myself on the municipal side and bill on the school side you know as you know best estimates at this point in time where the budgeting process even starts the next three years which is in essence what we've done the past so and once that's all and therefore how much would you know stick out and would need a debt exclusion you know without having all the pieces pulled together at this point thinking the debt exclusion may be in the range of a million or two you know something like that you don't want to put so much within the within the operating budget where it's stresses out the ability to you know to to maintain the services but i do believe that there's some capacity in there to absorb the majority of the something to this building and anybody who works in the building are has spent much time has seen the condition of town hall but the average citizen really has not seen the condition of town hall so i'd like to do is make a suggestion that maybe we have like an open house scheduled for the evenings before so that you can actual people can actually come in and see what town hall looks like ask questions  to for about a half hour on the phone at the beginning she was angry with me at the end she was very satisfied i took the time to talk to explain the whole detail and she goes oh and she thought that we could buy the  has agreed to step in and they're actually going to be considered as the proposal for the plame ridge shared race you know and i have received a call from a gentleman by the name of alex stoll this who is working with penn national in a meeting with him tomorrow at three thirty and would ask that one or two of the members join in on that meeting if someone's around tomorrow afternoon they're going to meet with us and tell us what  what they plan to do with the project and you know how they might be willing to help the the town i've also reached out to all the town managers have talked to two of them directly and i'm waiting to hear back from a couple of them as to what other reach touch back with some of the other managers and we may have a joint meeting to come up with a plan for regional what items we'd like to see resolved regionally so that's where we're at from our perspective and i know that jim sent a letter to john z ambo who is the spokesman for the project the gaming commission and i got a call in to him i have not heard back from him so this meeting is tomorrow and believe their deadline is october fourth that's correct and then there's some additional time frame in which we can negotiate an agreement with them and then this is the process that i'm trying to understand from m and i'm going to reach out back to him tomorrow and i haven't heard back we we played phone tag and you guys have already scheduled some for the board tomorrow right ok and so all try touch base who's going to get in my i'm actually trying to move the meeting up till three o'clock because i when i made it really really pushing i thought i had a four thirty a point and realize that it's four o'clock so i'm going to try to move it up to three o'clock so i don't have time to meet with him national both of those of then allowed penn national to be basically playing ridgeback in the race to no pun intended  there was a meeting i believe we can a half ago that the penn national people presented their proposals i was at that meeting and i didn't introduce myself to the penn national people at the  time the only people the previous owners and run and the people who ran penn national had fully break by energy excuse me had fully briefed and national on who we were and what our concerns were  so they knew who i was when i got up to speak and as we suspected they're going to want pretty quickly to sort of cement the surrounding community agreements i don't believe our position is changed on the impacts on this town the the main impact as as presented by the  demonstrated but by the study is that the playing field that is it will be solved will be the social impacts you can expect a five percent increase in problem gambling upon the opening of the casino and that will eventually decrease over time to about three percent or right resides apparently in the community we felt pretty strongly on on the committee that there should be somebody geisha in place prior to that just prior to this opening and you know we feel pretty strongly that it should be more of an area based versus ok foxwell has one guy that all you know deals with that there's northern bristol county north fork county region we don't feel as any really other strong impacts yeah there's going to be some traffic impact the problem you have is a lot of development going on there and you know that's going to be masked by the other development the joke i make is if you really wanted to have a traffic impact in the town of fox where you bulldoze plain ridge and you propose super wal mart you know the traffic studies that's true but still it's a fairly it's a fairly modest facility and as i pointed out to mr cutler if they if they just open a bar like they intend to do then it's  bar and to be perfectly honest mark the eight hundred pound gorilla for liquor licenses in our town and we have we have to acknowledge that you know if they're serving drinks twenty four seven that's a different issue because clearly and i swear to god are related to most of the people who will be drinking at three in the morning on a tuesday in march or probably related to so that's when you of the gaming that goes on there the difference is between the plane ridge the original plan ridge proposal and the new plan which poses there appears to be some form of entertainment they're going to do it like this sort of small sta and they're thinking of putting one hundred fifty room hotel that is a slightly bigger infrastructure impact but i we still you know and that needs to be somewhat evaluated  and it has both its pros and cons as far as the alcohol if you follow them like there's some thirty of drinking you if they have a hotel there you can fall down and stay down and i was intended to be funny but apparently you're very tough audience original plan which proposals that extraordinarily modest proposal and this is a little less modest but it's still fairly you know as far as a gun trafficking that kind of thing for really small it's fairly well situated property values we haven't looked into it deeply that the people on the committee who live down there pointed out that there used to be a dump or you know it was a transfer facility and it didn't seem to really impact their races but that's about it there's no light pollution there's really no good access to it from the towns of the parts of fox for a lot of bought it national seems to be fairly  and i would say that there is some differences of opinion i think within the committee itself regarding what the what some of the impacts are going to be with property values mike is right we never really dug into it but we'll know from you know the experience that we had in foxboro eighteen months ago or whatever that people were extremely concerned about about property values and there were some instances where where there was a big decrease in property values i think one of the one of the things that we relied on frankly because we didn't have any funding to do any studies ourselves was the work that the town of plainville had commissioned to have done when our way the former applicant had had had applied and so they did a fair amount of research they came back with you know some significant reports that highlighted what some of the impacts in the area would be and as mike said you know kind of the social problem of gaming was was one of the things that they were they really  highlighted now one of the key differences is you know our way was a small local company that was run really by you know some some folks and plainville ten national is a billion for four or five billion dollar company you know dislocated that that at least some of us on the committee have is that you know while this initial proposal is modest in fact it's you know in some respects just that the proposal that was presented by our way plus a hotel plus some entertainment it will undoubtedly bigger over time if in fact they are granted the application so you know i think that while the initial impact might be might be not that great over time there is the possibility that there will be significant impact and as such we need to try to mitigate accordingly the problem i have to disagree with you a little bit stuff and i agree that there may be growth in that facility however the law currently stipulates th when and if that time occurs i cannot say and i and again i try to keep my committee from sort of speculating what's going to happen in the future because my ability to read the future is fairly poor i understand the concerns that are brought up the fact that this could be a bigger deal but there's a number of different shred outs of what could happen in the future to to to plan ridge ranging from concerns of a big deal to it could fail because it's eleven miles from another facility so we didn't focus on the and i think it would be my personal opinion what reckless speculation to do so at th suggestion and we could probably talk for another hour on this going back and forth you know the mass gaming commission came up with rules and regulations and they basically in  to be impact i think what our job right now is similar to what we did in the past is follow the gaming commission rules back in july we sent a letter to the establishment that says we believe we're going to be in impacted community and it needs to be recognized i think that's the first step that we need to do from this board we've made we've sent two letters before i think we're going to vote to send another one from council over to penn national this is according to the gaming commission statute  because we're unclear change the date change the name in its exact same letter and then you know it's easy to say well you know we can use other people studies plainville did they spent money they got studies and basically they said look there is going to be an impact and within that radius so that's a starting point bullets it tomorrow with a national through town manager in reserve comments until we hear what they're going to do in here what their proposal is you know the previous applicant basically sent us a letter back that said with all due respect we don't consider you an impacted community and by the way you know thank us for all the business we're going to be bringing to the area and national could see something differently or they could say the same thing so will attend the meeting tomorrow with penn national bob's already reaching out to the other town manages to see what they're doing and i'm just afraid that we're going to get into a debate tonight you guys have cot in short order because you were almost dismantled until this came back you know we were we were i wouldn't sue dismantle we were enjoying our tuesday nights so now it's in so you know maybe the first thing is entertain a motion to have town council draft a similar letter as we did before and then we'll see where that goes have to look at what the impacts and you know lighting traffic noise whatever here i think is going to come down to social gambling over you know you've got to remember this is the only one that's allowed in the state and it's going to be either here or but you know so if we sit with the applicant and they recognize that we are in impacted community and we can figure out what the impact is and we come to some agreement then we're kind of on board with the proposal if we're at to affect everybody so this is a major problem so after we had such i'm not sitting there saying you know what i'm here to mitigate i'm here same go away but the problem you have mr solana's is the way the law is written that the town itself can determine their own future and the surrounding community do not have a say in that in this was always a concern that this would happen we that plain bill said yes west springfield said no to a casino right so they're kind of jumping around to find it's taken it's taken a lot longer than the mass gaming commission anticipated there's a lot more anxiety that anyone anticipated but it's you're right that the town the so i can't you know i as as i told my committee and i base you know i base on the work i do as we work from the accident backwards we assume that it was coming apart and plainville that's a worst case scenario hundred fifty slot machines no tables that kind of thing and we just kept it at that mostly because you know you'd spend all your time speculating on what would be what could be and we needed to you know  get to to get to it i mean stuff is correct in that you know for grows bigger we got a bigger problem but again i don't know that's going to happen or what doesn't if you seen any company around here that hasn't grown up on one michael let's think the thing is is you know again the the host community word this is located has it's their right to self determination and that's the way the law is written and i have you know i have to respect i may not agree with that but i have to respect that that's their right to self determination and that time plenty will very much wants us for a variety of reasons what we can do from our perspective know from a man who sits on a town commit board i don't know as much i can do as a private citizen yeah i could probably do a little bit more but i don't you know the way it was written it's you can't have it route one in foxboro is not twenty four i know it's not twenty four seven no you know that is a comparison to a point michel that is definitely something that the surrounding towns didn't get much mitigation for but there you go back in history ok ready john for action and i attended both of them was my lucky yes and we looked at the applications before the z b a we did a lot of work with the bylaw mr kast barish chaired the difficulties it did min  in the current bylaw and the recommendation of that committee was that we need a whole new twenty first century side by a lot of what we have now was moved from the zoning by law to the general bylaws with no adjustment so there's owning language in zoning districts that are undefined in the general bylaws it references number of things that were changed during the zoning by law codification the language still exists in the general bylaws so it's just the by lot self needs to be updated there are types of signs which were not even anticipated in one nine hundred ninety five when it made its migration from zoning to general bylaws so we need to figure out how we handle all these new technology and new types of sign like the previous discussion what did the people what are they comfortable with we all know there are opportunities with monies from certain types of billboards but is that the vision that the the business community and the residents of this town have for the kind of quality business environment that we're going to project the recommendation of the billboard advisory committee is that there is an economic development fund which was funded with  money some seven years ago i believe randy notes that the current balance of the fund is forty nine thousand five hundred sixty six dollars to you these funds requires a vote of the at the request of ms brewer i contacted three very senior planners and asked them how much it would be to develop a new bylaw and include a public participation component where we talk to business people on route one business people in the center people who operate businesses in other parts of down and talk to residents to see what their their vision is for lack of better words concerning science our goal would be hate to have that ready for an annual town meeting in may which means it has to be done and ready for it much earlier in the spring it's tight but doable the estimate i got was in the twenty thousand dollars range or so the i would request that these monies be used signage of course is intro to the entire economic development of a community tell you find stuff it tells you what kind of businesses you have and sends a message about what the local business climate is so we thought this was a reasonable fun to use to fund the signed by law update mismatch in a lot of places but you said you're going to try to solicit input from the community onto you know what their vision of the town is right you know my my opinion of signage is it can become blight in a hurry but it also if it's done in an under trying to come up with instead of just the stick but some carrot so our tongue common is now blight because we didn't regulate what the state could do with signs i mean right but i'm hoping that's where you're going with let people know where they are the first or second time you go somewhere you need the signed and know where it is then you know how to get there and it's just tell you this is a nice place come in do business or this is you know we use good steward where anything goes or whatever but the sign when she found it a few times you're no longer using it for location it's then kind of projecting board to retain a team of consultants who would draft the by law meet with the business community talk to residents be able to make presentations on the bylaws to the appropriate boards and get it ready in a timely fashion for town count town meeting and make share and also when we met last time we were talking about how the master planning process could be used to interface with rice it was in the process of developing the scope for the final phase of the master plan so it's it might be that we include several questions about signage on a follow up to billboards are yes yes all all on premise and off premise signs on premise science you know joe's barbershop off premise science or billboards and other signs on another piece of land that send you somewhere and that's what gets to be the real clutter whether it's green from mass highways or multiple colors from kind of ad hoc people putting up signs to where we didn't have to say yes or no to a couple applicants that just came in and you're stepping back and looking at the master plan so in the long run i think it's going to pay off for the for the money that we're spending on getting consultants to look at it is there a mechanism twenty thousand compared to revenue that could be coming in from just from just the billboards is small in comparison but it's broad for the well we found that several towns charge and you will annual licensing fee put out of their signs and that would be something we would specifically request that the consultant investigate that that's what i was getting at taking this twenty thousand and putting it back in to wri fund correct but i think the premise on fees that are paid the town can't make money off the united for the profit but part of the cost for the town would be this twenty thousand dollars correct whether it's five years before the work it was my understanding this was from the liquor license fees from patriot place and it was sixty thousand dollars part of the money was used to pay for the founders day banners that go around the common on the decorative light pulls and that's been the only other use of the mon by tom planner in planning but do you see the billboard advisory committee continuing loraine yes i would think it ok to be you've got a billboard advisory committee think so to update the town's sign by laws in time for the annual town meeting  for he's close limousine service and was this a full time driver or is this a i believe know the east coast is a limo service and most of the time they're there you know they rotate people through so negotiations with noname first now or to conduct collective bargaining sessions or contract negotiations with nonunion personnel union negotiations strategies fire boyden library highway water and review of executive