simple case and the parties are in agreement on much of it joe what more has made enormous progress the question is is he still does he still lack the capacity to restrain himself from acting on his pedophile it is hard all three doctors testified in the case befor new hearing before judge sarah's dr hernandez the director of the program had bought her was never asked if he thought it was never asked if he had an opinion as to whether or not joel wetmore was still sexually dangerous and let me say right now i should have said earlier troll what more now agrees that the b o p s was right in certifying him eight or nine years ago he now agrees that judge farris was right in committing him and that this course correct in affirming her decision and he's come to that position very gradually over a long period of time through an enormous amount of internal work but waiting on for him to complete the program we all agree would be good if he completed the program but only three or four men have completed the program in the eight years it's been in existence it tends to go on and on and on and on and many have been released from from partner many you know forty to forty eight respondents have been released from partner without ever entering the program let alone completing and as judge burton noted in his case in his opinion in the glen wright case which is in the record of many don't trust the program joe what more voluntarily enter the program and voluntarily remains in it but we believe he's now reached the point where he can go home dr grainier may believe that but the standard of review for us is whether judge sarah's who made careful findings committed clear error in her factual findings or committed an error law start are and it's not a matter of credibility none of the witnesses lied they were all truthful but it was clear air i think too too so i guess reinterviewed him and gone over the record prided testifying and that the others had not seen him again had not seen the sun from time do you make any objection to the was was based on stale and got ation yes or now what what was what was the clear era on the part of judge sarris in rejecting that argument well i think we have to go back to the fact that dr craning very clear that that if he were just complete the program and her eyes he's good to go she made equally clear in fact she stated that she had never signed a report recommending someone for elise never dr joe plot on the other hand has testified and serious of these cases sometimes for the respondent sometimes for the government his experience in these cases is so vastly superior to hers it's not a matter  and i think that said we're not that's not truth telling that's reliability that's exactly right and that's where i think she was wrong with all due respect to her and you know i'm complaining the program we didn't complete the program and were concerned with what he is what you status was at the time of the hearing in the in the district court and the district what was faced with conflicting opinions from qualified psychologists as to whether or whether or not he could be safely returned to the community while she was struggling with the notion of how we can be clear reverend for her to say that she found one psychologist's opinion more convincing or more plausible lemme mobile's i think you have to go further than that at look at what she said about completing the program she made it abundantly clear that if you just complete the program the exercise and one way to look at the testimony of those who said if he would only complete the program we would probably view or would view things differently is to say we're not quite sure yet and we would be closer to sure if he had completed the program and this this this and this nothing necessarily or clearly uncertain about accepting that view is there that is absolutely one way to view it and i  that that this court is allowed to go beyond that and look at the importance judge cherish put on completing the program just for the sake of completing the program and the fact that only three or four guys are completed wetmore mr wetmore remains sexually dangerous for two reasons the first is that as of the hearing date he continued to have persistent inappropriate urges related to boys between the ages of eleven to fourteen and that he was regularly masturbating to those sexual fantasies and thoughts that he was having there were two doctors who testified on the government's behalf dr plot and dr greeny at issue was some of the testimony that dr greeny provided she had some very recent experience with mr wetmore and judge sarah's credit her testimony in that regard just a couple months before the hearing mr wetmore told dr greene that he was having inappropriate sexual thoughts about eight times a day and he that he was masturbating to those thoughts several times a week and this is something that was concerning to judge seris in addition mr wetmore told dr greeny that he was second reason that judge terrace found that mr wetmore remains sexually dangerous is that he failed to complete the commitment in treatment program at butner this again was one of two reasons that judge harris found he remains actually dangerous  she said that given mr wetmore some lengthy offending history it made sense for him to continue his progress within the program and hopefully eventually computer complete it there are four phases to the program as of the date of the hearing mr wetmore was in phase three who interviewed mr wetmore twice the first time interviewed him he found that mr wetmore remains sexually dangerous he interviewed him again ten months later and changes the opinion and judge terrorist not here for weight that testimony and again that was well within her favor and that certainly doesn't mean that they are ever standard so unless there are questions the government will rest on its thank you counsel thank i think there's i think it's obvious that joel what more is always going to have these staunch he's always going to have these urges pedophil is not a crime acting on it is pedophile uses and sees acting on it as a crock of course he has these urges of course he has these thoughts i don't care how often he masturbate horny thinks about while he's doing oh isn't that in a way what we want him to do as opposed to acting out criminally on these thoughts and urges that he is likely always going to have and he recognizes he made it very clear in his testimony and what he told our board he recognises that this is going to be always one day at a time machine like dealing with alcohol of peace like  he's always going to have the sauce but the the question is is he going to act on it and i think we've made it clear at the hearing that he's not and that he has the requisite tools now t forward with the rest of his life and not disappoint himself or hurt others he has come a long voyage and i have to say i'm very very proud of it thank you