all right thing it doesn't sound like we have any comments in addition to what's on the agenda so i guess we don't need to move into the business because we don't have any so move right on to new business with the first front entrance court houses the main entrance there is a big window center on the side facing the game ball a one story aside game aluminum structure sits behind the big house houses siding is the design acceptable to the house as a differentiated by its design and can the addition be removed without destroying this drop character of the house so you should consider is textures and tears standard number nine and ten number nine talks about new conditions exterior alterations or related new construction shall not destroy the stark character material features and special relationships that characterize properly the new workshop to differentiate from the old shall be investment into that cover that parks for him here you want to give them some guidance on what kind of real you would like to see the the picture right you have to have those aligned with the think more consistent with the rest of the house you haven't seen as long as you have the square footage at the top of the landing that has require house in the preexisting futures which is in keeping with standard nine and they won't know that it's a side entrance so it's that in trying to deferring to the main entrance of the house so if you have good hierarchy so they don't have to beings actually just need to sort of be with the drawing shows little dam or something you know just something to prevent that wash coming right down on the person don't have any kind of graphic that looks at this things relationship to the rest of the house the concern being if it gets so small and flimsy looking that it that sort of looks temporary or just sort of clicked on i think it's it's certainly were you know you can remove it you can return it back to original state if you had to fits the criteria nicely  approve the porch  that one of the reasons we have these little pediment on historic houses because they split the water in there over the entrance so that you have wash coming down everywhere but at the entrance because the gutter has diverted it and so in this case you have to take advantage of all of that go ahead you can say whatever you'd like to say well my concerns were privateer this plan for three hundred washington is that so it would be my preference would be just plain to store the holes and i realize that they can pretty much do what they want so that's my input and then from when i look at the windows and the words it plans they don't really match the existing windows you level of deterioration or disrepair as presented the application i would recommend a more thorough site visit with access to the interior and upper level to examine better examine existing conditions for guards and staff and then i have one pearcy i'm concerned about the plans for the addition to the back to the brick home at three hundred washington boulevard seems edition is a rather large non brick construction that in my opinion ruins the integrity of the original home as this addition can be seen from both washington and twelfth street i wonder if it conforms to all historic district regulations please address these issues at the commission meeting this coming week thank you live to fifteen west street we did send out the notice says this is a large addition we are required by law to send out a notice and we sent that to a number of homes in the neighborhood i think we had  it this is the part you have this is one of the parts you don't which is all the windows stuff this is supporting documentation as to why these center front porch is appropriate for bungalows in general and there are some more information on the materials and the information regarding  in history oh so happy to hear oh downtown oh and i represent you laura laura is a young professional just moved here almost two years ago now for upstate new york was thrilled that with your approval i will have a chance to revitalize this property and return it back to the city and which it deserves and understanding the weight of this responsibility and what could mean for the neighborhood i intend to certain dream you know what it could could be for a beautiful family in a neighborhood that could appreciate the update and a young professional that says an engineer herman miller i currently serve on the work the hologram professionals and truly would like to sell into the materials the porch has already been redone and currently does not need cold air for any restoration would not be to the original review articles while i am aware that the recommendation from the historical district staff representative currently stands will no longer make fiscal feasible sense for me to home however i remain positive that with your approval we continued an unwinnable home into the example of whole washington thank you for your time appreciate your tell that this house has a lot of historical integrity it was the same owner had it for many many many years it was an elderly baby she was then kind of she moved out  and taken out anyway the torch the only part of the course that is illegal is that it doesn't have a handle so that's the only thing that doesn't make coat on porch so the house is approximately thirteen with us ok ok so it's currently condemned because our outstanding violations remember those violations from britain on a rental home an illegal rental home not a single family residence and you have the letter not that front entrance that's considered a side yard believe it or not this is the front yard so what you see from the front yard is th would be allowed in because it's considered a sign here years ago it's it's allowed in the side yard not in the back yard so that's that should keep in mind because of the way the house's position on a corner this becomes the front door down here and this is a side yard this is a side yard and this is the back yard here so just keep that line the addition of forty two percent addition will transform the house from a three bedroom one half bath to a more spacious three bedroom two and a half  sorry this reread yard up here and it will most likely be granted because this bit of addition actually steps in from the existing wall so it's using precedence it's already windows and the and doors that are original of here is the door that was put into legally on this back porch that's not original the door or there's a door in here i don't remember if that original are not right right behind that column but this this little wall here the score the windows on the back the dormer up above the trim all the and all the ok the additional be a two story structure located close to the setback and the west as stepping in one foot from the original home city north and soft walls the additional being twenty four feet wide twelve feet deep with a low four twelve slo yes which is that last sighting the addition shows a very small lap siding glass we did have that in there in your pack and so the material samples are available so we've got some paint here i've got a group shingle and a brick and then the top shake stuff that's going on out there and we can look at more of these things just by paul to request approval to all the windows in the house to replace them with you would windows of the in quotes come from its proposed columns from the parts that are demolished off the back of the house and relocated to the ground the grass of self is nowhere near as old as the house site i was told they would like to paint the bridge so i would like that clarified if you want to discuss that further brick siding that was mentioned it says to it directly match fence the existing chain link fence will be removed but they give no description as to a new plants it's location or its materials and a fence permit is required from france paving the existing time prepared to be removed and grass will to play on the earth where when i looked at the brick there's very minimal top twenty were fired there are locations where it's needed but i do things here not extensive i think you can see some of the photos yeah talk about the first portion is the rear porch a defining feature of the building if so doesn't meet the requirement for demolition and notice to proceed does the addition detract from the significance of the house or how visible is the addition does a compliment the existing house in size scale and design are the materials appropriate for the addition is in different addition differentiated by its design cavendish be removed without destroying the character of the house and then i think we've discussed the requirements for an hours to proceed so if you consider their report and that dormer a defining feature of the building then we need to be one of these requirements for a notice to proceed to demolish it and those requirements are the resource constitutes a hazard to the safety of the public or to the structures occupants the resource is a deterrent to a major improvement program that will be of substantial benefit to the community and the applicant proposing the work has obtained all necessary playing zoning approvals financing environmental clearances retaining the resource will cause undue financial hardship to the owner when a governmental action or an act of god or other event beyond the owner's control created the hardship and all feasible alternatives to eliminate the financial hardship which may include offering the resource for sale of the fair market value or moving the resource to a bacon site within the district has been attempted exhausted by the owner or retaining the resource is not in the interest of the majority of the community ok then we're onto the windows of the windows in such severe condition that they should be replaced can they be repaired are the windows considered defining features of the house and is the front porch defining characteristic of the house does the alteration of the front porch meet the standards does the alteration detract from the historical significance of owls is the alteration reversible so i've asked you to consider stand to stand write up because it's just hard to remember all of the exact wording time yeah so i will say that this is pretty tricky because in the past we've had one we've had additions it's been pretty cut and dry they haven't really impacted historic character but i would say that that porch i mean it's a it's kind of a historical significant feature on the building around the home porch and i think it makes a lot of sun so first is defining determining if it's if it if it's a defining characteristic of the house is it a defining historical characteristic house and i feel like we're kind of  consensus that it is i would agree with the ok if so there are still ways to demolish a porch but they have it's is it becomes very tricky  have to you have to meet these following conditions a resource comes constitute a hazard to the safety of the public or to the structures occupants  so this is kind of interesting because when that house on eleventh street burned for instance we had a lot of talk about whether or not it was a safety hazard which in that case you would think well yeah it's a burned out house it's a safety hazard but with the definitions that we had it gotten from different standards and i don't even remember where they came from but it was mostly about like if you're walking down the street are you in danger if you're using the porch in this case it's potential tripping houser it i guess but i don't think that really falls into what is considered a hazard to the safety of the public ok so let's say that we don't have enough information to answer that one so be the resources a deterrent to a major improvement program that will be substantially benefit oh my goodness i've been talking all day so i'm just like  stop working a substantial benefits community and the applicant proposing the work has attained on necessary planning and zoning approvals financing environmental clearances that one's a little bit confusing to me in just a it has to be a deterrent to a major improvement program that will be of substantial benefit to the community that would be really a large public an individual that wouldn't qualify so i think he is just absolutely out because it doesn't even refer to all that in the public opinion we perceived are against it right so right and see retaining the resource will cause undue financial hardship to the owner wanted governmental action an act of god or other events beyond the owner's control created the hardship and all feasible alternatives to eliminate the financial hardship which may include offering the resource for sale at its fair market value  moving to the resource to make it site within the historic district have been attempted and exhausted by the owner and we used to handle her just as you know and there has been no governmental action act of god or other event the owners control that created a hardship there's no which it yeah anyway retain the resource is not an interest of the community of the majority of the community i mean we heard from  ok with the demolition of the porch and then not being ok with the size and massing of the edition are two very different it does show that it just says it seems the addition is a rather large number of construction that in my opinion ruins the integrity integrity of the original home i think i mean from what i've heard i think the focus is on the addition not necessarily retaining the porch but that's just my thought and that's a fair point that the focus of i don't know the community you would be overwhelmingly upset say yeah but i use it out of the is it in the interest of the majority of the community with the majority of community care one way or another that's what i say and i don't think i don't know that they would care one way or another about the removal of the chords based on what we've heard but i'd be very clear strongly about what goes in its place also and i misunderstood something no i don't think we have any relationship in the kind of it that that piece of it's going that's definitely a part of their suits and you know if you have a flight of little ports that's klitgaard and they're just hanging on for dear life and we want to get rid of that that's one thing this is  significant porch yes i think everyone is in agreement on that and i would say that the only thing that has legs out of these four a b c indy arguments would be the resource constitutes a hazard to the safety of the public or to the structure occupants which we were indeed like we said earlier a site that is a to determine and then potentially further review from a structural engineer or whoever it may be  so given that as something that needs to be scheduled in the future i think we should still continue on to the discussion of the addition sorry if we're to say that then we would also have to meet one of those requirements for the dorm or for that whole thing yeah right so for every aspect that we're saying is a defining feature of a home in which case i don't know if we have a lot of information about structural integrity or if that's a c t hazard or any of the code officials would have caught that it's not in the code or ok condemning the house they would have caught talk about the edition or are we not to the point where we think that in addition can even go there and leads to a site visit before we can continue on the discussion  and of discussion that's it has to be one of those to be allowed to be torn down so but that's up to the commission that's you guys yes yes that's it that's up to the to beforehand there's an order of operations going probably that might make sense but i certainly be in favor of entertaining you know having a conversation about the merits of in addition to you know give resident her money's worth in terms of having us look at who we need to do but i don't i don't know are you prepared i mean it would be nice to have the homeowner here for you talk about the decision because i think we're going to have some pretty wholesale conversation goes and then if we get to the moment where we have so many questions or whatever then we say ok it let's actually do this site visit first and then hopefully have the homeowner here for the next one and do it again i just don't or the rest of the house know ok it doesn't fall into that category anymore maybe from the front but from the front door it would still text it would look like a bungalow but yeah you're right it makes it more and then we go further there's something going on contributing at that point if we can't categorize it maybe that's too far but you know it's a good question yeah i think we had very similar conversations when we talked about the house on the corner of ally and maple cross from the school yeah we went back and forms of them a few times they've redesigned a few times to get to a point where it's felt like it it worked with where it was a neighborhood and with the houses massing itself actually that was the first house that i have a plan from this was that felt like that the designers need to treat this a little bit more as an exercise on how to respond to context aaron to sort of the scale of the surrounding it seems like something kind of important from the back yeah yeah i think you make a good point that a lot of times we do ask for that reveal to make it definitely look like an addition and i appreciate them then doing that but you're right it's not especially since it's two story it just isn't quite enough resident is extremely thorough and dedicated and seems to have a good stewardship mentality for the property that she owned i don't know if she is a foreigner standing of what the function of the story of district fears and  so you know it is something that in addition it's imposing it out of scale and then not necessarily to group with the rest of the house there's some work to do there are making it more polite and deferring to the original house i think it was something in her l i did remember hearing that as well and wondering if it was in that same vein but it was something specific about sam three very i'm sure we will you know yeah and that comes down to economic hardship again which is not a viable argument but  demolition and addition is significant i mean this is significantly more expensive than taking a look at what's already there and working with a set with what she's got are branded as a there you know one thing that one thing that we do need in these neighborhoods is people looking at these homes as their forever homes and not necessarily their starter homes or their quick flip type properties and families and larger families are absolutely historically accurate and our modern sort of modes of living it changed and i get it i mean we are the families i'd love another bathroom i don't happen to be within  district so i guess well you know if i was in this position i would probably have and if somebody has this level of stewardship mentality where there's probably some misplaced design decisions that can be refined and set this property up for a kind of stewardship that's going to go fifty years into the future then it's worth looking at seriously because it's doing it's pouring you know blood sweat and tears into washington all right so i didn't know that i wasn't trying to insult you by saying that you can't champion what we're doing but i guess that's why i think movies were a little overblown because there's a i mean the addition is one thing demolishing the ports is another thing exponentially further than typical take up to come with all this stuff this is a huge thing so she needs i think she needs to be here we need to go there yeah this is a long festival so big a big deal and i think there is a concern her  that when we have other homeowners who have purchased homes in the store district that they have to go through the same process you know we had one homeowner earlier this summer who had whether you're on or not on her side and she was looking at doing a window replacement and that a couple months to get through the window replacement for her in terms of whether we were going to whether the windows were deteriorated enough that they needed replaced or whether they could can raise a family and i think with that in mind  glance but a thorough more thorough review probably idea all right so this is the actual door design does not have any race panels so yeah i was actually thinking like first of all the reason there's a bigger discussion required but just looking at those windows they're thinking that simple square and set of the fo ever so slightly and it's the same but a question i have is so we met we mentioned at the beginning that this graduate is now original and that it was built from the look of it so you know i i don't consider that historically significant if you guys feel it if that's your opinion but i think  historical significance of the christ was before we talk about replacing the door that exists and punching two holes in it for new doors  so let's break it down yeah so i'm just wondering if there's anything we can actually make a decision on with the information we have and that sounds a lot more yeah sounds more negative than i mean it and so i'm thinking about the three doors the possibility of changing that decided to make it a three star alls i guess that's kind of the overall structure question that wish to talk about is there to munch is there are a drawing of that or is it just all the driving that and i actually added this picture because there was nothing else ok so this was all i received from the garage that the materials ok so i think we existing yeah i understand i just i at the question is what are the sizes of those three doors how do they stack up next to each other was the distances between and just kind of getting a dimension yeah because i don't we don't know that that's accurate like dimensionally accurate it's not because there are those those shot of the lights are taking up the top third of the door and we know that they're taking up to talk fourth of the door so things like that i mean there's of the house but as we would be able to have a further conversation but like looking up looking back at the existing garage like basically anything is an improvement right yeah  y just yeah and i think that the concept of adding additional doors makes sense for that garage i don't really have a problem with the concept i think it's more making sure that the execution yeah fits with what the structure is and complements the structure that it is complementing that it is an accessory to and what's there currently is simple square has three who don't want and change the front porch so we even commute discussing if we don't have a lease for people saying yes it's worth discussing i mean someone could make a motion and we could vote on it and make it official  is right for the house i mean i think it makes sense to say that one of the biggest things that people think of when i think about historic character in the historic district is the front porches and yeah i feel like that's one of the most defining features of a home because that's i mean it's meant to welcome people and it seems like the last thing you should make a visual change to especially when what's there is i mean if that wall was demolished because a tree fell on it or something then this would be a different discussion but when the when the porch is there and the characters there  comments on that please don't some real good i don't remember placing like for like me we had to replace just well i have i told the the builder who had introduced himself as the owner to me or would this always acceptable yeah especially if they're going to painted ok i think we have to talk about everything i think we had it i think we have a few options if you have any you can be just like about the proof let me know but i just encourage her to think about our operations if if she's going to you know if she can put in a new roof she's going to have to tear it out she has in addition right so that's the hang the three dimensional yes to you have to ignore to five six to get to it sure but we ignore those standards all the time and you tumble we have your standards that's true we do ignore standards side loaded on the group for porsche doesn't actually makes much sense as it probably do what it was built so i think i think there's a reason to make the center entrance to the  that would all depend if we would approve that addition because then there would be a side entrance otherwise it would be inconvenient to walk up to the front and still just as true but there'd be a back entrance right  longer have that relationship so i might not be the best use of your money but i was thinking maybe i try to make the motion thinking that you know let her take on one of these things you know  of spend some money get the project done see how she likes it i don't know how we have any marriage when we already determined that that's an important feature of the whole so how can we go in and use that against arseholes basically so can we take a bow without a standard  don't know i don't know what they already have people at the site has got it ok but we should probably try to have things taken care about the site visit is that what you're there we'll have all your questions and got it and if you still want to discuss the plan that for the april meeting if you don't feel if we wanted to we we deny that motion we did not deny that application for the board which we would need another motion grant to design the front porch specifically to deny rights it because the absence of an approval is not the same as it right there right ok we've table that at this point so if you can just leave that table to discuss that in the knesset or a motion city greenhouse we thought that that was in bed for a while i was kind of hoping we get to this before j left at the maybe i'm the last last month at the one of the work sessions they said yep we're go go ahead and put out a new grow house thirty seconds or twenty four story and then we decided no no we didn't i didn't they decided no we're going to talk about an addition on the bringing in jim smith who is from our recent this is a restoration specialist that wrote that report that we discovered that had been hiding all these years he's coming in from cincinnati cincinnati to spend a day looking at the greenhouse and deciding what to do with it and talking to us about options and idealism what kind of shape it's in so we really need to have i would love to have at least one potentially two of you commissioners if you're all interested so let me know for much sounds it will be a day a work day so it's tuesday the twenty seventh of march i'm all about would say that i can't make out what time you do you know but we don't know you ok ok andy kenyon from parks is setting this up ok so he's working on time and i don't think he's got an agenda for the day i think i'm working on that ok he's just going to make sure but he gets there ok so me we're also hoping at least one or two commissions a gift i'm kind of hoping jay will be there because he would also represent the interests of the start district commission state marker jet of dedication i think i sent this to all of you for the with no ads april for teaching yes saturday april fourteenth if you'd like to go there's snacks and you're going to save a few words hopefully it won't commissions are you getting any of those e mails yet yes you were i got one yes the second it to thirty nine pm i didn't get that but you only got one you're not getting the regular blocks because i must have gotten twenty tonight is there a grand opening whatever in their first stroh's of the season and it's on the ski again and yours truly just a historic architectural special upstream i don't know