the mother was deported because of actions that was set in motion by a pallies bets howard and her friends within the alley on march twenty first two thousand and one and wen and your client's purse spreads and it was her last day she'd given notice i'm going on she then say she found through blouses that were there that belonged to her that's what she sa the next thing that i can find a record of significance here is she's called the police police show up and find your client and the home owner in a discussion about this and she tells the police that your client pereira's had taken the  officer that she took the items that part is not true well in it's not true where is the evidence that it that she asserts that it's not true or what let's why do you say it's not true because when i submitted the supplemental that's excerpts of record i did not have anything in her purse that first or clothing that belonged to beth ford when the police arrived and that after the s one of the police arrived they began to speak to both towers and then after speaking this is this is where this whole case troubles me i see nothing in the records if she attempted to use that information that she's gotten this declaration number one to challenge later her no plea or to challenge the fact that she was convicted of criminal trespass nothing about what her lawyer did to or anything else that comes up only as this context when you get her into court so you're the first person to get her into court with this information as i understand it so that means very next question what do we do and what i the preferential treatment that the l a p d always gave her because she's connected to the captain's at the van i station at the hollywood station she's well connected to all the officers so the problem arose in the context that we have summer after her deportation i learned that the little girl was fought was having problems with the diet and the water and i agonized what can be done to remedy her situation that's why i consulted with the shoot she was deported even though the records of not having the service the i and that's at the time bought her the airplane ticket so that she could go with her mother i want to know what legal what legal process deported the four she couldn't make it and we're just four years past and she never showed up she just stayed silent in the united states without visibility and still she ran into the system now whether she ran into the system in the system ground iraq the only reason that the deportation happened is because she failed to go back and do what she was spose to do at the hearing is not right you don't you're right that i don't really know if she was deported because she failed to appear or because a detention order out of well but if her claims for political asylum was the united then it would be the same effect she would get a deportation order down the road and that's what i'm unclear about because i never saw the immigration file on her the point is that because she couldn't make the last court appearance to fight her political asylum claim the deportation order i automatically issue but it did not issue because she was convicted for theft that's the point that a crime and i would say no she wasn't deported because she committed a crime she was the court and because of four years earlier she was pregnant she couldn't go to her last immigration court hearing and neither was born three days or four days after order would have never surfaced and i ask you for years that she continue to work half of that you could take your order but in all laws not coming into contact with any police officers she may have papers that the judge said that he had not by the little girl heck that's not part of the little girl and therefore what new remedy can i fashion to help bring back the little girls from guatemala taking their minor children each one of those minor children has one hundred eighty three action that's what you're asking us to right because she was deported she was she left unless you can show me something legally that she was deported we now have minor children that are having to leave the country because they have to their parents are gone getting four year old here so you're saying now those four year olds can bring one hundred eighty three actions based upon whatever caused the deportation of the mother and now they have a one thousand nine hundred reaction that's a pretty that's going to be and you have to see in the context of the summer and fall of two thousand and one before i filed a lawsuit on behalf of the little girl are you with which you are interested in is getting a little girl back in the united states yes sir and to provide a legal remedy when state actors and state actions work in conjunction with the private party well but she can always come back she is or us or so yes or theory for with or without the mother well i would lawsuit and when i'm trying to establish a remedy for us citizens to sue state actors and private parties when the actions cause the little girl to be thrown out of the country and you remember in the record the excerpts of husband in my mind i had a vision that after they arrested the good onya they give me my fives to each other for a job well done to me this was a joint actions joint concert by the participants arrest which is a legal act not discussion not investigation by the homeowner making a citizen's arrest for us right right in the citizens arrest was made probation is that what happens yes and you're saying that legally will then allow you to say what you're doing by bringing in one thousand nine hundred three on on the arrest is challenging your final even if the court is having problems with the heck analysis and i think it is it does fit if you if you give a broad interpretation to the rule and hack that you just don't want to end up with even consistent results i think you can apply sense in this situation but i think even if  city she was a simple volunteer for the police department she enjoys none of the protections of the civil service system and she enjoys none of the guarantees or protections of the indemnity provisions for defending this action based on experience of they've had with her or relationships they may have had with her or may not have had with her that's that's getting pretty metaphysical i think that what the court has to do is take a look at not the  hundred three what effect of all those facts are and can you separate the false arrest to say well let's forget about the facts and know what was forget everything else this situation between the police and this howard produced a wrongful a false arrest and therefore we're going to separate it from everything i think that's and so that goes to the eleventh is that is that really frivolous well there's two there's two aspects to the eleven i don't get to the courts question and second there's two aspects  the eleven was not only based upon the heck analysis but it was also based upon the idea that that there are up on the fact that there was no allegations be to be the daughter there's no there's no claim or are  appointed as i understand and she's four years old so my guess is we and we don't have anything in the record so i don't know if that's frivolous or not you have to go explore what the guardian ad litum said i don't know about that but i'm going back again to the false arrest how how how come is that really frivolous to separate the false arrest from all this other stuff in the hole and say no you can't bring it i think i thought i read some wire here that might indicate that you may be able to separate the insofar as has a concern is the conviction itself and and so what occurred before the conviction is if a hatchet came down and chopped it off because a conviction occurred the conviction is outstanding the convictions never been directly attacked point of the conviction we're looking at the conviction now as the as the basis for applying when the lines are oh it's not frivolous to press the point is that correct well if the law  upon the heck analysis but in light of the argument from plaintiff counsel that what he was trying to do is modify expand or test the current state of the law which is which is one of the arguments that you presented  the district court looked at the first lawsuit and exercised its discretion and we and ms list powers incurred up to that point up to the point of the motion for sanctions she incurred approximately twelve thousand dollars in the tourney series and the district court judge looked at that first lawsuit and basically said ok we're cutting off you know everything that preceded the filing of the second lawsuit let me ask you a question counsel today indicated in scene that a united states citizens had left had been forced out of the country or was taken out of the country with with an alien her alien mother and he had to fashion some way to get that citizen back does that make the whole thing frivolous in other words you you said your data used in one thousand nine hundred three to see if you could get the child back in the citizens rights sting this particular hack or its application could have a could have done that through the mother's lawsuit and in fact could have done that through a lawsuit against the city residents rather than filing today continuing to process suit against against the system which is what happened in this case and the sole basis for the for claiming that the joint action between mr howard and the city is the the idea that she attended it's if the joint action your honor apply to that particular circumstance then it would put every citizen who who reports the crime to the police in jeopardy for liability which i house and there's a virus by the police coupled with the association of this howard with the police and then the language thing it's like discrimination to me well if i had the benefit of what i know now i intellectually formulate those issues but i do want to does that one more thing is that the lawsuit of the little girl was filed in december of two thousand and one which is like six months after both were taken through the mo and judge provision and that is first order in march twenty five two thousand and two this mess in the mother's lawsuit so the sanctions were for march two thousand to twenty five until june eighteenth two thousand  creativity increase truly factual or legal theory and that's where the little girl's lawsuit comes in and the one that i was sanctioned what can i do to remedy her situation in a foreign country