house family by family we're focusing on business creation business development economic development and culture it's a wonderful conversation a robust conversation one of the conversation is my brother takes us on a musical journey will make firelit welcome to conversations with illness for a little broadcasting from the marcus garvey house in north minneapolis i'm pleased to have guests representing the minneapolis health department gretchen we secured is the minneapolis commissioner of health and part of our team such a cotton is the youth violence prevention coordinator gretchen thank you both for being here i have been concerned and i'm sure you are about the question of trauma in a shooting an officer involved shooting with avenue in north minneapolis the thought comes to my mind what's the impact on this child's life what's the impact when he goes to school the next day and he's going to be around other ten year olds or twelve year olds is his life going to change the question becomes how does our community what is the city's response to crises to trauma like this i don't know if he's been worked with the city or not let alone talk about personal business but it's idea of a child experiencing a traumatic event how does wilson well i think you're right to ask about the effect of trauma there is a lot of new research coming out in many ways just reinforces what we intuitively already feel and know  about the cumulative effect of trauma and i think there are layers of trauma there's certainly a very acute kind of trauma that you just described but there are other more subtle layers of trauma that accumulate and actually change the way the person who's gone through that reacts to the next trauma is if anough different traumas happen it kind of changes the way your body runs through life and so we do need to pay attention to trauma and think about how to dampen the impact of that so there are individual ways like counseling  immediately there's also sponsoring opportunities for people who've been impacted by an event to come together and to support each other that's another really valuable and effective way to address trauma are just came from a meeting looking at early childhood trauma where we're trying to pull together people from across the community to think about what does it mean to really integrate this understanding that is  newly reinforced with science but we've known for a long time what does it mean for us to respond to that understanding i don't know if you want to talk about where that group is going to mean it's a relatively new group that we've just been pulling together since the summer of this year but really our goal is to look and and really educate parents and family and community members about the impact of trauma particularly exposure to violence for young children because we know that it can create some really negative outcomes for them throughout their lives and particularly for us we're interested in adolescence so a lot of research is indicating that kids are exposed to violence like domestic violence or community violence will go on to perpetrate or be victims of crime much for earlier in life and throughout the lifespan which again is intuitive right it makes sense that if you grow up in an environment where violence is normal that to you violence is normal route your life time until something makes you change and so it's something that we want to look at as early as possible and really that work starts with parents and families and trying to inform them  negative those exposures can really be and how we can reframe conflict and not make it be violent you are able to impart information that knowledge to families and parents in a way that gives them a different strategy so what we're proposing to do in two thousand and sixteen which will be the first real launch work of this this group is to do some targeted dialogue with young parents our work really goes from zero to twenty four and so it covers the gamut of both those youngest children as well as many of the people who are parenting them who are often eighteen to twenty four so our plan is a mom guided dialogue eighteen to twenty four year old parents to really get some feedback from them about both their own childhood experiences with exposure and to also talk with them about what kind of support they would need in order to ensure that their children are exposed to any violence or to reduce that impact and so we really want this to be a grass roots experience we don't want to assume that we know the answers because that's what we want  northpoint and other providers are standing ready to respond to acute situations that are dental fight and also all the county as a whole and their therapists i think are available for individuals we're trying to build some programs in addition to that a resource we have something called inspiring youth and we're working with the tubman center and young people who are in families where there has been some domestic violence can be referred for case management so working directly with that young person trying to get them to have a dampened impact from what they have witnessed and then move forward with their development so it's it's young people who have witnessed violence but it's also people who have been involved in maybe curfew truancy or who are on probation or been in a diversion program so that there's potentially chaos in their lives and trauma and so trying to identify them and connect intentionally with them for quite a number of months to get them injured that in addition to patching up whatever wound that is physically and sending them out with stitches that we also have someone who's knowledgeable about the community connected  empathizing getting them the resources they need to lead a good life when they when they leave and to cope with the trauma of having been injured so those are a couple examples of programs you know when you hear right truly and appropriately communities organize to bring grief and trauma counseling and make that available to those children and their families to the community and they are sort of a public strategy because the healing has to be a public affair my question is does that exist for us in north minneapolis or in in twenty cities and so i am still talking about the one kid i'm just so hurt  this incidence that i watched on television but i know that this is not a sole incident you know it reminds me of what's going on with the outbreak in chicago over the the deal from last year but also the nine year old kid that was murdered in chicago all right we also know that there are just too many of our young people killing our young people that's happening in this neighborhood and in our city and so how do we organize a process of a system for engaging those children those families those communities that helps people understand grief to grieve in a way that's productive and also that understands and as you say tries to dampen the impact of trauma associated with those eventually something is or a plan is there a strategy at present to answer that question informed professionals mental health specialists people who could work with those young people who might attend the service and they were providing that at the davis center which is right across the street from silas that was readily available for young people who had gone to the service and we also had those people  kind of circling the block during the protests that were three things out there young people that were there to participate in the process and the protest but needed some counselling or needed someone to talk to those professionals world bailable on top of that response we also had our youth workers from the health need is the met but also the social need is being met and that they're feeling a sense of comfort from a familiar face we were also able to work with our law enforcement professionals to and to talk about the fact that if an arrest had been made but in the event that those were nonviolent arrests could the consideration of our juvenile supervision center be the first the first that a non factor place that young people are calm and get some support and counseling until they were safe to be back out in the community exactly where to go so great so we do have the ability to mobilize a response like that and i think that as we're developing those strategies we're really looking at what kind of bands will trigger that kind of a response and formalizing more in twenty sixteen but we certainly know that we are able to do it and that  think and i think a component of the plan the thought should just described is a is a bringing together resources across the city so involved in what she just told us folks from the parks the school district a sort of how this fits into you know well when i talk about what the health department does and i list all the things it really leads to young people  a lot of us north me up as a very young part of the city yes and so focusing on our babies born healthy our women supported our family supported our new father supported in those very early years what kind of richer directory our little ones are in terms of getting ready for school the next stage and then another big focus on adolescence so we have school based clinics in the high schools we have the youth violence prevention work or very attentive to sexually transmitted diseases and teen pregnancy even as i name some negative things around teens like violence and teen pregnancy potentially that work is done to the lens of positive use development we know that if young people achieve the things that young people need to do developmentally everything will be good for them and for the community and so we want to make sure that those opportunities to build a skill be connected to a caring adult have a sense of your contribution to the community sometimes it to be packaged differently for different young people but that all young people need that so beyond that and then we're also doing a lot of work around healthy living so gardening in communities and walkable communities and bike communities all of which help make the place feel you know more less stressful and and more supportive and then we do the kinds of things that you think health departments do inspect restaurants and we look at the environment and we help people get the lead out of their homes we also do a lot of research and policy work because we think if you change the rules in the policies  effort by the city council to rescind the law of the made public spitting crime because we said there's no health reason to do that anymore maybe back when they thought about it in eighteen hundreds and t everywhere maybe it made sense doesn't make sense anymore and it's being used inappropriately we've also taken a lead from the young people in the community around tobacco flavored tobacco and they've really helped us see what's available in the community and how much even having products flavored products available is another kind of marketing to them and so starting in january those products will only be available in tobacco only stores and that was want this year called blueprint approved institute and it's really focused on just what you said building the capacity of some of our very smallest agencies who are doing great work on the ground with some of the analysts challenging young people to reach we know that sometimes young people really need that connection in order to feel like they can make the changes that they need and so we've identified some organizations who we could see were making all the changes but weren't traditional organizations didn't have grant writers or how to develop research and so what we've done is we've offered them micrograms and we're also paying them for their time on a stipend for their time to get some core training over the course of ten months focused on just those things so that my governess for three thousand dollars and it's just to do one project and then they're compensated for their time in attendance at the sessions as well and so but really i mean there were there were getting such a wealth of knowledge from the actual training learning how developing that was like models and how to really write a solid grant so that when programs are familiar probably to your base we've got change equals opportunity with jamil jackson who runs the running shoe basketball program or are you park got from brown who's done lots of great work in the community for many many years the neighborhood hub is one of those organizations that we're working with so there's a variety the core of our group right now is north side programs that we're meeting at north regional library twice a month and so i think that the programs that are part of our organization with the institute are agencies that are right on the cusp of being really blossoming but that just really needed that ability to both connect with the city and sort of get the inside scoop an awesome get some polishing buff on what they had been doing to make it really where it needed to be for that next level  mean for our pop up parks we're in our second year this past year and it's really a strategy to engage young people probably sixteen but we've taken all shapes and sizes so we've got sometimes little little ones and sometimes we've got older kids but the idea is to design parks and places that people might not expect so sometimes they're part properties that are being underutilized sometimes we walk off a street intersection and have it like a street fair and sometimes they're actually at our vacant lot throughout the city that the city owns but are not being used because the properties don't have homes and we bring up a large trailer and it's got a basketball court and i hope it's got a video game system it's got hula hoops and jump ropes and all kinds of fun things  people would like to do along with a staff of caring adults who are really committed to trying to build those relationships with young people and we operate from four to ten five nights a week during the summer months so the ideal place for a week or not will be every day every day we do a high concentration in north minneapolis because we identified that as a high need area because we know that young people are really looking for things to do in this community and we want to make sure that we're providing at least another alternative and that we're providing them with those role models an expectation that you are not able to fully fulfill if you can't be there five days a week or is that a successful problem you know i think that thus far we've been able to be there five days a week we did actually pull back were there for six days a week and we had the capacity to do that this year but we found that having them be slightly reduced increased attendance so not having it be something that was one of the mill but the kids had a sort of wait for it to resurface made it be more interesting and so it's been very successful and we're looking forward to continue that as a core of our program and i think for them in unlikely places also changes a perception of that space so not only is there fun stuff to do and an engaging adults to do them with him and other young people but it also changes your perception of this isn't just a like a abandoned place this could be a fun place and maybe it should be something other than it is that i think of it as a community so i think sometimes we hear from community members that these small initiatives like proper parks are not the answer to the long term problem and i think as a city department we know that we know that that's not a long term answer but we do think about it as a short break from the community for the community if we can provide a safe space for young people and families to come out and enjoy an evening on a vacant lot and feel like they're at a carnival or a park for a short period of time but that's a break from maybe the stress of the way that their life is throughout the day was at work with the perception  abroad sometimes within the community as well that young kids young people are out of control there's a sense that you know ten twelve thirteen year olds fourteen year olds are in a dangerous space in that they are prone to invited to exhibit what's unacceptable behavior and it's not that they will it but the pressure of pierce right and maybe the pressure of the opportunity and maybe the lack of structure to engage with i see this is one way you provide and deal with that but is there a different perception of who these young people are than what's being projected what's being projected from their point of view is so negative i would say that there is a difference between perception and reality i would say that i've been a youth worker all of my adult life for the last fifteen years and that i work across the country and locally most of my career here in minneapolis and st paul and most young people are really doing and want to do the right things they want to go to school they want to be successful but a lot of time it is those episodes of trauma or those missing pieces in our lives that cause them to behave in a way that we deem inappropriate and so i think part of what we have to ask ourselves as adults when we see kids behaving in a way that we think is inappropriate instead of asking what's wrong with that kid really thinking about what happened to that child that would make them behave in a way like this and how can i help or help them find the resources that they need to build themselves back up because it's much easier to help build up a child than it is to fix a broken man and i'm i know that that's a quote and i'm going to remember who it was but i can't think of it right now but i think it is really important for us and best in our young people and that doesn't just mean dollars but it really means time and that as a community we can be afraid of our children even though sometimes the unknown is a is a scary thing and i think that that's a lot of what it comes down to we don't understand our kids and we feel like they're from a different planet sometimes is that we understand our own physical biological children but the rest of the kids we don't understand that part it we're also finding though and we have a program of parent education and support that sometimes i don't think parents understand the the influence that they still have when they have adolescents we  we do a lot of in for informing about parents parenting young babies and then we as a society kind of forget to help parents along the rest of the path and so they get to be a parent of an adolescent and we know that adolescen are pretty good communicators of like stand back you know i have this but they don't fully mean that you know sandbag and then engage with me so we do have a parent education support program because we know how important parents are and so we're really focusing on parents of kids who are in a bit of crisis or trouble because that's an extra job for parents to manage through that we find that a lot of the parents of kids who are you know in a in a bit of a crisis learn a crisis themselves and so there's a combination of talking to them about you know what are some good parenting practices but also how can we help you stabilize your housing or you know how can we help you make your food budget work through the rest of the month so it's a combination of supporting them in their basic regular you know survival skills and then also how powerful they still are as parents and how to play that out interested in the question of equity and the question of how consumers feel about their ability to both  ow about command and utilize resources is there a sense of the resource pool of the one that requires them to feel less th the bosses in our city right and so all of these resources belong to you as a resident is not an issue at all is that being communicated does it need to be talked about do people feel disconnected disenfranchised and pushed back i'm going to say that sound we know that racial equity is something that is a constant body of work that we need to work on it was a society and so for me as a youth violence prevention coordinator the blueprint approved institute was one of those issues around equity that when i took the position i immediately recognized because what we found when we looked at our grant proposal who were putting out a request for proposals was that many of the organizations that we were able to fund by our current standard at that time were larger agencies which are often run by a diverse pool of people but not necessarily a group of people that reflect the community that they serve and meeting an african american led organization so most of the organizations that sit at the table for blueprint approved institute are african american led programs that service north minneapolis and they are programs that would not have traditionally been programs served are programs that have been funded by the minneapolis health department because they want able to write the kind of grant proposal that we would have normally funded and so that's something that we really felt like it was important instead of kind of not being able to fund those applications but knowing they were doing good work to be able to increase their capacity to improve their applications and improve their skills that so that they could apply for money both from minneapolis but also from federal and state funders as well so that's one way that we're trying to address racial equity and i think in terms of who is driving the train which i think is a very legitimate  question with the parenting program that i just described there is a curriculum positive parenting or i think it's called that's been studied and over and approved and you know shown good results and so that's what we wanted our contractor to use using working with the families what they discovered from the families though is like ok that might be interesting but i've got some other things to worry about here in terms of you know how my going to pay my rant or is there enough food for the family for the rest of the week so we rethought the direction and listened to what what the people that we're connecting with were saying and said ok we need a different approach we can't just use this best practice and shove it down people's throats you know we we need to come to the the needs that are being identified and connect with those and then let's talk about this other component so yes just said we realize we're on a journey we have miles to go before we get to where we want to be but we're we're trying to be aware and trying to learn from what we see in experience what's your thought about what i call the legacy institution so i called the urban league for example a legacy organization places like from us weekly community center so beth to me and in south minneapolis and some of the pillsbury united organizations they have been around a long time all of them a relatively large multi million dollar operations and they provide service what they've experienced extreme challenges in the past several years and the nature of the challenges i see it as an observer is that as they continue to identify needs and create responses to serve their customers their community they often are challenged and time to time they end up losing so they shrink and their capacity to provide this sort of fully and well rounded set of services to engage families and communities is  think that may be changing i think that loyce that that call is been being heard but i think for the past several years we've been in a track of ignoring and reducing the capacity of legacy institutions to serve the community under the guise that that we can't say that they've done a good job so we can't keep putting money there for i stand the argument should shift the other way i can't say that the city council has done a good job because you presided over this misery in my neighborhood north minneapolis for a generation or two and this city has to say take responsibility for its failure for emergencies like the tornado or the bridge collapse or influenza outbreak we have tried to learn from what we think we observed on in new orleans and that is that people in a time of crisis turn to organizations that they have grown to trust which are in many time many times those legacy organizations and so we have created memorandums formalized memorandums of understanding with the urban league and other organizations the recognition that these are foundational organizations that people turn to and so we want to formalize connection to be able to communicate back and forth to also make sure that they're able to keep their doors open if a power failure other things happen and so that's one small way that we have tried to identify the importance of those organizations the second thing i thought of is something that came up this morning minneapolis has a process called results minneapolis where we pull together some data convene people to talk about the data inspire ourselves to take additional steps so this morning there was a session tallahassee and reading by a grade three and there were not only minneapolis officials but there were also community folks some from some of the organizations that you mention and one idea that  forward as part of that conversation that we're going to follow up on is that contracts that these organizations have come with all these kind of bits than constraints and edges that at times make it impossible to do the holistic work that is really called for and i think we heard that there were people from the county people from the city and so we're going to convene some of these larger organizations that have several contracts just to hear from them what does it feel like when you try and piece together all of this stuff that we've handed you to do and what can we do to kind of clear away some of the craziness that we might have inadvertently created as part of our contract so i'm very excited about that opportunity you before we were on the segment one of the things you do is promote shop as a cop i think it's a wonderful idea tell me about that what's what's the model for and what's been the experience so for this launch on our first year with shop with a cop that was really focused on young people who have been identified for having higher risk for violent perpetration or victimization so that they may be young people who traditionally we wouldn't expect to want to spend an afternoon shopping with police officers and they're not sure and they're not children we went all the way up to age twenty four so it was really about helping young people get prepared to either go back to school or college or for job readiness so they could buy anything from basic hygiene products all the way up low work boots for construction workers who were prepping for that kind of work and the idea was to give young people and officers who may not normally have an opportunity this speak and spend time together away to convene so they had some food together spent some time  not necessarily workshops with them got a dialogue then they were paired up one on one and went out and spent about one hundred dollars apiece on supplies that they might need in their lives they had you know a list of things that they wanted to get we did two of those we did one serve in the north side that was downtown and we did one in south in the opposite the target location on lake street and target was a great partner to us our officers i think got an opportunity to see young people in a different way and the young people got an opportunity the officers in another way saw an example that was with a young lady who came with her program manager and she was just kind of kicking and screaming about it you know she wanted to get car but you don't want to shop with a car and she put up all these walls or i want to woman cab or i want to black cab you know she had all these rules and so by the time we finally matched her with it was a female officer but she was a white woman and i don't want to work with her she's not mine by the end of it they were calling each other by first names and you know it was like they had developed a bond and when i asked her about it she said oh i don't think she's going to be that nice but she was really nice and i really like her i would call her five needed something and so just so short periods of interaction can sometimes really personalize the relationship and make i would feel comfortable so we're trying to do that as well as providing young people with the basic needs that they might need to feel good about going back to school or work i really like what you said earlier about the institute for your dinner fi emerging businesses schools that sort of addresses the question i was raising too about equity and access so what's your vision there here's my vision we have our city is known by  disturbing disparities while as was said earlier you know the states so healthy and so employed less than four percent unemployment in the city but eighteen percent or fifteen percent here in north minneapolis health disparities you name all the categories of those this very show up education income wealth access in general in the area of health in particular can we find a way to identify the problem as an opportunity i had a discussion with stella wouldn't you west in our conversation always ends up on this catch phrase our health is our business the proposition is that the world wants a cancer solution we want the pill that will prevent or cure cancer the reality is that it takes thousands of people and thousands of hours of research and thousands and maybe millions billions of dollars or so that the public in the private sector invest because we believe that an answer can be found we create an economy around health if our community is underemployed if our community is undereducated if i community has create a pathway to one hundred percent health i mean what if we had north been episodes of blue so what if that was the vision of creating enough and gauge with involvement equity access opportunity being a part of the revenue stream associated with health and wellness what do you think about it well we know our some certainty that huge percentage of what determines health has nothing do with health services and it has to do with a community it has to do with the assets are there it has to do with the opportunities that people in the community have and so we in the health department  have that high in our mind as we design things are healthy living work we have which is physical activity healthy eating and exposure to tobacco we have intentionally create place to buy a bike in north minneapolis or to get a bike part and it was also an employment opportunity for young people to work there but also learn a skill and work elsewhere and i think other healthy living work around the  food environment urban agriculture the processing of food the selling of cooked food you know it's a whole enterprise opportunity and enhanced as hell so i think these these combinations of strategies that that build create a more vibrant community and improve health is what we're trying to strive for i like your idea of a blue zone i think there's probably most residents now i think think harmony up was especially the black community have a love hate relationship but we're just different covers not even the think of new second cousin so i have a passion for what happens with our young people in minneapolis as the parent of a seventeen year old african american boy i think i'm personally committed to seeing the world be different for him and i think that there are some things that we have gotten right and there are some things that we definitely need to do differently so when i think about the issue of violence as a health issue i look at my son's life and i know that he has his basic needs met but he has a really nurturing environment in his home that you have lots of adults who really care and are invested in what's going on with them and that if we see a red flag we were able to immediately try to address it and i want the young people of many apples and the pollen across the country to be able to have those things and to really be able to experience what it's like to have a young a young adulthood in a teenage way that feels like they can focus on what they want and other things that are going on around them and violence is a preventable thing we know that we know that violence can be prevented and so we are trying to implement those strategies that enhance the quality of life or actually built a house across the street so he could be there to coach every day coach football most of his adult life was a semi pro baseball player in the negro league so we've got a really strong group here and my grandmother on my mom's side has been here for a long time and been a mother and her church a gospel temple and resurrection temple for many many years so very very deeply rooted in the community here very proud of that and i know that you know i've had opportunities to leave the twin cities and to work  but here and having no connections as always been really important for me as an individual but also for my son for him to be the fourth generation of that legacy you and i have to also discuss and maybe you do to help as well gretchen but i think you and i gravitate easily to the question of historical trauma absolutely we have to weigh the meaning of why we are here we have to be conscious  of ourselves as by products of the transatlantic slave trade and even though we have that as an origin we also know that we have extensive and broad family and bloodlines you know that we're not just one thing we're many many things but all of that makes us really rich people but how do you integrate this sense of awareness of the impact of historical tr  we know that violence is linked to trauma and our feelings about trauma and violence are to some degree in direct connection to our experiences were in this country by people and so things like over disciplining our so i think that it's important for us to know that during slavery getting out of line or misbehaving in a way that the owner would have responded to could have created some really bad circumstances for our children and so as parents sometimes it was better for us to discipline or as we call it in a weapon our kids and sometimes that was excessive force because we were trying to protect them from what would have been an even worse consequence at the hand of the owner and that's been  you know you hear people talk all the time about all black hair that they keep their kids and walk away welcome you know i mean it's something that we've we've always said that in our community and it really comes out of a system of trauma that we've leaned on and now it's no longer necessary it's something that was a necessity during slavery but it's something that we have intertwined as a cultural practice that's actually doing us more harm than good now and so it's about the things in our culture that are relevant and important to us now we need to preserve those  it's important to have them given that someone of our culture was taken from us but there are some things that we're holding onto that we need to let go of and that's part of that historical drama it's a part of the learning of the education is educating ourselves to recognize the difference and to make different choices and to see how these things are connected to our daily experience today gretchen is the same question affect you the same way that saussure that i having this conversation i'm imagining it has to at some level or another because you're experienced and yet having been raised as most white people have been raised which is a little bit of blue vs of your uniqueness there was an opportunity i had quite a number of years ago at the city they had something called cult culture club two point zero and people would come and eat lunch and they'd listen to three speakers tell you what it's like to be an american indian or three speakers talk about what it's like to be african american and i would go and eat my lunch and i'd learn and one day the organizers said well next month that's going to be sweet and i went up to her and i'm like wow who are you going to have and she goes how about you and i  i agreed but it was one of the most difficult things i have done because i really have not had to be in touch with that the that lineage that i have so i interviewed my mother and we talked about what what part of me i because of the you know other than my skin color what what part of that is because i'm i'm swedish so yeah there's there's other kinds of trauma i guess the trauma of being removed from just where did all me come from but i have been in the city as a as a resident my whole life i was born here went to high school here my son also went to school here he's a third generation minneapolis public school graduate  so i'm i'm deeply connected to the city drawn to urban issues i yearn for justice i don't know why i don't know where that comes from maybe because i'm swedish i don't know i had a few years when i lived in italy as a very young child i was fluent in the telly and at the time but clearly an outsider by appearance  and by language so i draw that experience to understand what it means to to be in a situation where people are pointing out your difference and your otherness so i try and dr healthy and follow directions of what i should do i can go running in the morning at six a m and it doesn't matter that it's dark out and and i can walk to my my local co op and if i don't like the co op i can walk to a grocery store and so i just think of the environment that allows me to be who i am in southwest minneapolis and i think if i transplanted myself to another part of the city i would not have the same range of opportunities to assert my healthy behavior and so i want a city i want to help build a city that feels like i feel and southwest minneapolis all the range of opportunities i have mean mind body and spirit that they feel secure they feel nurtured they feel love and that they feel ready for leadership because i think that that's also a really important part of feeling grounded in your neighborhood that you feel that something ownership and so to me violence is just it's one component of this issue of youth development that i always say of young people young people need stuff when they get the stuff that they need they blossom they need to be fertilized they need to be watered and so to me when we can get so  scares me it frightens me i'm concerned about this i'm concerned about it too because the technology the information the the range and capability for people that  are set to do damage to themselves and to others is exponentially greater than it had been before i think i'm concerned about it because like i'm concerned about the one child who was the witness to the homicide on some of the avenue i think about children i interviewed here one day general react mashad or who is the commander of the south sudan people's liberation army and he had led twenty year warfare in the bushes and the warfare included conscription of child soldiers and we talked about the interview was the difficulty the challenge of getting these children who are trained to be fighters and killers to become civilians peaceful again what i see here when northside kids start calling themselves the taliban it adds a whole different level when i was a kid in kansas city there was this street gang nothing like there is today this was some was a big joke right and these were people that we knew but the game is different and so i'm concerned about that so how do we figure out a way to intervene and engage and address and talk about families out of times we're experiencing families that don't have that deep multi generational understanding that if the family has no training the self or role or understanding what parent population many apples many people who are from different places so we really do need our community to step up to fill that void we need community leaders like mike mark and we need organizations that are well equipped to fill that void that exist because african americans are really used to having that extended family and it doesn't have to be bloodlines that tire but we need a community to step up and really deal with our young people and engage with them