first item on the agenda would be the proof all of the minutes of the regular council meeting of september twenty fifth two thousand and seventeen motion to approve we have a motion in a sack and his or in further discussion here in lon eleven we probably had thirty people there already so i don't know if they were trying to beat the traffic going on but it was at a point to you well know that far station parking up there it was we couldn't have any we don't have any more room for people quickly i don't want to take up a lot of time but what started as a smaller than two thousand and eleven or twelve has grown to an event where we saw over five hundred people there that day and you know i could a version of kids we had two hundred gone by by twelve thirty in the afternoon the event until three o'clock so you know we obviously printed more adaptive more but you know this is something that we put a little place in our budgets for that obviously goes a long way with the volunteer for stepping up so you'll see a lot of the paid staff in the volunteers smiling more than a lot of the visitors it's truly an enjoyable bit for us to do and be a part of it's really while a lot of our members join the fire department while lot of our employees work here it's fun for me to do it's chaotic detective it takes years of my life but at the same time it's it's good to see the community in the fire department everybody come together so you know first of foremost thank you to his draws you mr law and entire council for your support in this one venture that helps u demonstration and we change we always wanted to be something different so that new public comes back and exist in we get new faces there all the time and so forth and it's good says that you know we try to have a guy keep tabs in he said about one out  that actually might make into a demonstration for next year going on we had another township a van that was the hazardous waste collection i've been holding that every other year since two thousand and three and that's the one opportunity you have to enterprises to do a good job they've done other events and allegheny county down pittsburgh area they did they did a good job it really are township departments stepped up most notably the public works department had a number of staff and the mailer and we had fifty two thousand worth of eligible expenses so we did get half of that back now we had more items this time but we had a better price with this contractors are expected to be similar do some of those events and promote it through asa look at us no not out of this state senators and things like that will have them know we do you're right we do get asked we get a number of phone calls asking about shredding  stothard public library a cultural educational and recreational resource for a community was founded by the women's club peters township in one nine hundred fifty seven and where as for last sixty years the library has enabled residents to make educated decisions by promoting unrestricted access to information and where as over seventeen thousand five hundred registered patrons of the library have free access to a collection of one hundred thirty thousand books d v d these audio books and music in whereas the library goes community programming for residents of all ages including if it through critic or in story times elementary through high school clubs and activities book clubs for adults and senior discussion groups just t if we could because this is a form of from my perspective this is important this i believe the third play in that we have a kid under the duties only nordics and so what i would hope is that we could first talk about the thirty point four acres is open space as the plumeri plant is designed and as of tonight we're in eleven point zero two acres of gross open space and nine point one two acres of natural space location this is a county slash township line context the site is located right in this area it is east of the nineteen quarter war this is the township slashed county line this is beth park and this is peters residential and it is in the conservation residential overlay district a and existing condition plan rotated north  to the left of the screen this red boundaries the property line it's approximately thirty five point four acres primarily wooded existing conditions and along thompson road we have another wooded in the center portion of the site slopes from east to west east being higher west being lower there is there are resources in this area there's streams some wetlands identified by these heavy or hatched green areas we have weapons and streams in the middle of the site also on thomson hill road and and on the north western portion of the  district which allows for two loss per acre and it also allows for twenty five percent of the gross site set aside as a permanent open space i will mention that it indicated d the transportation engineer and we have revised the plan and i'll walk you through the revisions but as shown tonight we're looking at ten point nine five acres of gross area and nine point zero acres of net area so we're at a reduction of about a tenth of an acre per the plans that were submitted and approved by planning commission overall site plan th of new road which equates to about two point six miles and did indicate that there was a stream in the middle of the site so we are maintaining that stream as a sensitive resource including it  site site design requirements were using the narrow right of way which measures to the back of the sidewalk along the road quarter or the sidewalks are five foot wide they're being proposed on both sides of the road except for is to limit the encroachments on the street crossings and protect sensitive resources and i'll go back showing where those located where those are located and in a moment front yard step backward twenty feet sixty two lots the minimum lot with is fifty feet in the overlay district zoning requirements and we have a minimum as designed of fifty eight feet this is a site plan rendering this is what was it on the screen as mr speaking like i said we've got that ten point nine five acres of gross area for open space nine point zero two is net and the open space is indicated area is the areas in cumbered by easements whether that be the stormwater management facilities which we have to of their surface pawns one on the north west side of the site and one on the southwestern side a side and those are placed just based on topography as i said this is the high portion the site so all the runoff is being collected via the storm had an underground detention facility in this area at the intersection of what we're calling juniper way which would be the intersection of juniper way and juniper way we've revised the plans to eliminate that underground condition the stormwater facilities will be turned over to the township and we've provided access to those facilities per township regulations the open space will be maintained by the homeowners association as i was referencing that sidewalk configuration here's our two stream crossings we will be we're proposing sidewalks on both sides of the street until you get to about this point and have a cross walk that takes you across and one side of the street here so that we don't have that so we will have more traffic calming will be a combination of race cross walk slow speed curves townships subdivision development ordinance and intersection stop conditions three legs of the intersection and the manual of uniform traffic control devices we weren't able to use any of their their exemptions for having in all way stop we did propose and always stop and receive comments from the engineer asking for justification and we were able to justify that always stop at a location the intersection of juniper said they'll be a stop sign as you're coming down the hill to this intersection this will be free flowing traffic along juniper way and no be a stop sign as you're coming to this intersection from the manner way and this will be free flowing traffic on juniper way between the lower portion of the site the upper portion of the site and it will be tainted as sensitive resources streams weapons for the remainder there won't be any active percentage of open space that you have to set aside before going to the architectural character or any other questions that council has about the this particular graphic developer or looking to work with the township and understand what they want and that is the reason that it's on the plan for the decision of council but for tonight we're asking the council go ahead and make a planning commission saw a slightly different plan and same same number of laws just a little bit of a change i can indicate the change there were two lots in this area  there were five and we had one lot here and an underground attention facility and an effort to renew that underground attention facility and its long term perpetual mate and we went ahead and water management pond and have one lot right here in this location that's not on the planet in front of you and that is that that's the extent of the changes that were made other than you know reconfigured access road to this paul and based on catchup engineering comment as well as a revised location for the access to this point based on co small watershed it's us you know we're talking our data sheets were and the township has the delineation report it's two to three feet wide his this is the stream channel it is  it's more than the fifteen feet it's about a foot and a half overhang per the builder so yes they are a home buyer would be limited to you know the size her  each parcel in that would be understood by the builder so there would be plans in place that would indicate what size house could be built on each particular parcel property  then you notice is that there seems as though there are multiple opportunities to extend connections into into the play and so for instance just explained there are wetly that are all throughout here which would prohibit the connection back the other there's an intervening piece of property so this connection even if you were to come back this way we're able to do that this plane was originally recorded all of the streets were roads but one of the things that you can see is that even then the thought was that there would the other right of ways in the roadways and they were they were taken back by the township as minimum maintenance roads were used to be quite a number of private roads and peter township property owners were then responsible real problem for the public works department because in many cases maintaining them in that condition was much more difficult and more expensive than that upgrading them in two thousand and four  while he was alive to have to see his property subdivided and it's only when he passed that this property became available and this is the first opportunity to make that connection so that's why this is a curse now i'm not difficult to treat locusts from the top going down to be safer for them to treat it from the bottom going up all the times those trucks and slid down that hill other times we've backed down that hill so the other person but i asked to come that i was mr margery mr boundaries the townships traffic engineer he can address any questions or maybe with the amount of traffic that may  assess whether plants need to do traffic impact studies that's the book that we use to assess impact the trips also so for this development and i'll boil it down to the highest hour the peak hour of a residential subdivision typically will happen are five to six o'clock with this many homes that we're talking about that's fifty seven trips total generated by this development within an hour i took a look at some drive time runs from going back into the neighborhood and driving out the concern would be you know hey are who's who's going to work these people from this development going to go get some drive time runs from thompson the road to drive time runs from the back man or way people are trying to get to places like you know mcmurray ro around nineteen and then i also had some census data for the township based on home and work where people live in long thompson bill rhoden where they work and assuming that this kind of development will be similar type of folks living in that area so my best projection it's about a fifty fifty split of this connection is built through the people that development will break down half the people come out on the tops of the road map of people come out the man away so if you're looking at fifty seven trips in an hour that's a fifty seven you're talking twenty eight cars per hour coming out man or wave twenty eight cars an hour coming out top of the one that's both directions we also took a look the police also did some traffic counts up on actually be a little bit of traffic from the beacon maneuver the beacon way neighborhood that may come back through this neighborhood but i started looking at other intersections like if you're up on hayes road or you live on the st clair  quicker to go south on nineteen or make mark it's not quicker to come through those plant homes maybe one or way or locust on the steep part of the hill yeah those homes those forty fifty homes in that area in the back end might be a little quicker if they cut through this plan so i took that into account also a reverse trip from people that live there today how many might go through this neighborhood so the numbers i came up with again currently right now in lucas drivers twenty two vehicles an hour my forecast would be fifty vehicles an hour  so so a home rule average roughly ten to eleven trips one home generates ten to eleven trips per day ten to twelve that's the whole day but so when i left come here tonight i was a trip leaving but when i go tonight that's two so that's the average how many times a day somebody leaves the house it's five or six times a day someone is leaving so it's numbers based on that and then we have a lot of data from years of residential subdivision that we know about and we look at the highest hour five to six o'clock and we know what percentage of the overall day comes a five to six o'clock roughly is there going to be a school bus go in through here not sure here the school district has the pla at this point so i think that there's some options there with regards to how you would physically do that connection it's challenging i mean once i put that in my report it's not like your typical connection where you have  would be for emergency access do you have any comments on whether or not that would be something that would location that way has been in that location for many years and so there's also a question about what's the status of that of that car plane and something that we would we need to determine what is clear though is that there is a public right choose not to make that inner connection i think at the very least what you want to do is to be taking this right away so that in fact in the future a connection can be made and to require the developer to stop on this road so that people who live on either side here understand that there there will be a connection possibly at some future date except if we do that we're the ones that are going to be paying for the connection absolutely and that's why it's our recommendation through the process so it it's my opinion we should be saying no here we should be saying let's pursue this and see what we can do working with the peace and make it happen he's ok so we got short changed on her from palm bay and the plan to commissions for is i'm concerned i got pictures and i got a lot of things the scars and i do appreciate you guys taking my time i'm going to need more in five minutes  arise and in here's all the different ways you can keep track of this moving through the process there has been such interest in this development that it mr suit suggestion we send out a second notice so that everyone tonight would setting so the only place to take action into the liberate is that an advertised public meeting and we have as a township we take responsibility for advertising things so that everyone is informed so you see everything from postings on venus boards to notices on websites to legal and illegal notices of the vapor of the one thing about council put yourself in our positions you know we have been here forty years you know close to forty years and i never had a problem with the police or never had a problem with the ambulance service they were always daughter in pretty pretty quick time and mean and  stats about these i did this and i could say that but you don't live in iraq we do the people down here know how to drive they drive pretty safe dry pretty slow kasia yeah you have maybe a contractor ome somebody building a home or a roof they're flying at a forty five fifty mile an hour just to get out of there and then look at stop signs only look at the roads a twenty five mile an hour roads what i'm asking is council put yourself in our position right now some of you have seen those roads and some of you have seen what we're going to deal with your we had at one time we had public roads are going to make these private roads are public roads were where they were private our values in our hospital also decrease easy to sell homes down here because it's  private road so i'm just asking and asking the council to take a good look at everything down here having jim carroll bargain to talk about his area down or be in a swamp the ditches thirty foot deep thirty foot wide and i'm going to make sure i get the for forty five years down the road or and the only comment i want to make is something that's been bandied around here a little bit about this route is how dangerous this heel is that we face with traffic every day is that the residents that live in the neighborhood are very slow you have to go down this hill but what we see is we see a lot of people coming in transit quander actors or whatever they don't realize how dangerous the because they don't know how to drive around the house and that's about six months out of the year there's a lovely people that live on my street that helped them get out of our yard we've had to replace bushes we've had to replant grass so when you had fifty more cars coming down that hell at the rate that at the speed that they'll come down and how that's going to be more cars that end up in my front yard it's unsafe and it's not meant to be driven in and out of fifty times a day  council certainly has the authority to prove this but if there happens to be any accidents as a result of this connection based on your approval will be liability now live will be based on whoever has the deepest pockets and who are liable for that this council is looking at approving something that's been turned by the committee is not recommended by your committee the  streets are not with good municipal code will be responsible for the expenses to widen these roads in the store where if approved why would the developer not be responsible for this i also find it interesting going from our play and in into the new complex i think it's very interesting now there's not a nominal what regulates that but i thought they were very interesting the developer was more concerned about this new my name is lee in his car twenty eight twenty eight locust drive i'm a twenty one year resident safety is a serious concern the roads are narrow the hero is very steep and i would like to propose a plan we do not have sidewalks drivers are not familiar with speeding down this hill there is going to be an accident and someone is going to be seriously hurt we're telling you that right now as a longtime resident in taxpayer i'm going to ask counsel who we represent it to a lack of us who are you going to vote for a developer who is not concerned with our safety  is going to turn a quick profit and be gone leaving us to face the consequences or are you going to vote for our neighborhood and our long term safety and welfare thank you thank you my name is david laurie i live a twenty eight thirty eight locust drive i have a few comments that haven't been made to the quality of wife of the current residents and the integrity of the neighborhoods  peter's township should be first and foremost concern of peters township leadership and every person that is employed by peter's township sadly the juniper woods plan is evidence that this is not the case am a degree to analytical chemist and i have been a scientist in the aerospace industry for the past thirty six years having the entire juniper wood's plan it's clear from a residence point of view that this plan is poorly conceived poorly engineered and poorly planned the residents concerns have been ignored which is why this plan is before council tonight this entire plan is just bad for peters township mr lauer's comments about the limited access reaffirms that this is a bad place those in positions of leadership in the township are in those positions to uphold the public trust this means that we the residents trust them to do what's best for the residents of the township curiously this is clearly not the case with the juniper woods plan this plan calls for sixty sixty homes in this area sixteen base the barn median income this will result in a minimum of one hundred  grant for signal improvements on east mcmurry in valley brook roads the traffic engineer clearly stated that this would alleviate possibly twenty percent of the existing trapping congestion yet the juniper what plan will add a minimum of one hundred fifty vehicles into the mix somewhat but this was a cool idea this does not serve the residents the interests of the residents of peter's township any development of this project of this property will adversely affect the current residents of peter's township adding more vehicles to the existing traffic problems would be lunacy all residents of the affected neighborhoods were not contacted by the township leadership regarding this plan i'd just like to correct this misinformation i obtain from mr graham in the list of addresses of those receiving letters regarding the plan both for the planning commission meeting and tonight's council meeting i live on the corner of locust drive in manor way i can look from my driveway down manner way and see past all six hours and see the end of the road my address was not on the mailing list the addresses of my two immediate neighbors on locust drop were not on the list so this idea of six hundred feet that was misinformation none of my neighbors on franklin drive who would also be seriously adversely affected by this plan were contacted on their part of our neighborhoods our guard none of them were contacted yet our leadership followed to see why a rule to limit exposure of the plan instead of researching all the affected neighborhoods to ensure that all residents would know and have an opportunity to voice their concerns and if there is not a requirement are not requested for other plans these axis concerns did not exist for the twenty four years that i lived there but magically came to came to light when there were objections to this plan people live here and peter's because it's whenever we do a plan and if there is something that's a little controversy over question like this we asked them to make a formal national opinion these people are professionals we have hired them because of their  the numbers and this type of plan is part of the new zone if there are three other ones that have that in front of counsel when donahue came about that was because they're going near you you didn't get those letters the people who were near them got the letters and i'm like keen on this type of a development to be honest with you but that's part of what we improved in the conference plan so you can pick all the developers either because he's going to use what we gave you so i appreciate that you're upset but i do say something we need to be defended because i think you miss territory on some of the things that you perhaps understood to be the case for your perception was different things we wanted because of the work that everybody here in this room does to make peter such a great community appreciate that the second thing we wanted was to live on a dead end well that might be showing off that way now of course so it's kind of a bummer and i want to talk here a little bit about my experiences as a new resident of this community and i will admit to making some mistakes ok and brought a perfect with my first time down frankly i didn't realize how fast i was going and a lot of these people were out here and they i saw them and i was putting my brakes on i'm still pretty far up the road but i realize well i was going a lot faster than i thought and if it weren't for these people out there caring for their kids i don't know what would happen i hope nothing but i mean all admit that i was wrong there and then the second people who helped us out and kind of got us going the right way so i can see first hand it is a new driver and there's going to be a lot of potential new drivers here there are going to be in the states and i don't want to see a kid or a messed up house because of call this has really been something that balance between safety where the show life and what we who live there every day know is going to be an issue if you have more cars coming through easy ross so i don't know and this thirty feet deep i was down i have lots of pictures on here and it's actually down with my boots on and we have we have the tape measure so course from an engineering standpoint is how are they going to safely come across parted and i'm sure they're going to have to rip out all of our property and then if they're going to have properly engineer  k then of course they will have to do that from our side of the property which will completely believe destroy and and at that point you know i'm sure people how  you want to come down you have our mission to come into our driveway to walk around tomorrow around our property and to really get a good look at that see the full picture because it's really you know in addition to all the safety concerns i really don't know how this could be engineered a stove with a contractor in that well over a million dollars just to do our part of the game in front of me and her safely engineer i down or op both very very treacherous when the weather is bad particularly when it's not it's narrow you have to know what you're doing to make that band so that would give us another exit out of our plants i think that would be a bonus we give the emergency vehicles and on their way in try and i think those are the positives and again i just think is a balance you look at there would be some positive impact on obviously free with a negative impact of more vehicles going through there however i make the next step and i think the other issues of safety on franklin locust be any manner way and traffic calming i think that's another issue that needs to be dealt with regardless of this plan going in we've been living with it all these years does point and there are over half a million dollar homes so having two arts as i understand is ideal but it's not required in peter's as far as franklin drive goes we also to have a very steep hill in it's never dry and as soon as you hit franklin drive it's like it's never been touched up also would become an issue with people going through because they're not going to come out locust and lincoln  hit by a car speeding up my road where jimmy alice actually removed his license for six months because he deemed it necessary we have already attempted to have speed humps placed on our road we contacted the township we wrote a petition we had the sensors put out on our show for i believe it was a span of fifteen to twenty days it was deemed that we didn't have enough traffic on our road to homes put in and which also was denied because it was deemed that we did not have enough traffic we have roughly about twelve children that live on our street one of them is autistic i am concerned just as a woman before me we have a lot of people who don't realize that he has issues he does play outside on a daily bases we increase the traffic on our road i am concerned about the safety for the children still lives there and i dealt with robin hood and in all of the traffic but franklin drive and locust in my opinion are just is that trying to get down to water on robin hood the only difference is  we don't get salted and robin hood water so that's another issue that we deal with every single one  sure on behalf of my client we've definitely taken a look at this project on two pads one the engineering of the plant itself and one the inter with with the adjacent neighborhoods and i think it's evident with with regards to the playing conditions recommendation or decision to recommend the plan the preliminary plan in accordance with how it's been presented tonight  thinking i was sitting here in one of the things that was said at the end made me kind of feel that you know i really do understand the need for access through a plant based on safety and security and fire and i would be willing to grieve we could create a massive march in emergency access but i was sitting here thinking to myself why am i trying to worry about the sixty people who are not leaving here yet now listening to all the testimony tonight i don't think there's any question that there are certainly a number of concerns here in the neighborhood and obviously you guys of live in that neighborhood for a number of years and you're used to a certain set of circumstances only those of you who live there go through the neighborhood and obviously it keeps in the amount of traffic down unfortunately we live in a community where progress is continuing to take away our single family peaceful neighborhoods and you know not necessarily excited about that but it's a fact of the fact of life the neighborhood i grew up in isn't like it was twenty years ago thirty years ago when i grew up there where i build my house now there are fifty vacant acres next to it i know some that are going to be houses there that's just something that sadly i'm going to have to accept someday unfortunately what we have here is we have a recommendation from the police department the fire department and public works as well as our engineer all saying that  connection on to man or way would be for the benefit of the public and we have to consider not only the interests of the residents of the neighborhood we need to consider the resin the the residents of the township as well and not only this now without requiring that connection that ends it forever if we approve it now with a connection the d p still going to review it and then they come back and say well this is not possible we can't do it and that ends of the scutcheon there but i think in a situation like this we will be remiss if we allow this plan to go through that connection because then we are probably cutting off a neighborhood which right now has no access without going enough for st clair b we are creating a new neighborhood with sixty houses which only has egress which certainly would was not intended by the comprehensive plan and is certainly not anything we would do in any other situation if we could avoid it so for that reason i will make the motion that we approve  preliminary plan subject to the conditions set forth in the planning commission and playing the farm it's memo with the additional condition that the connection to manor road be included subject to d are let me have the floor sir ten years ago where i live there was a swat situation and i lived on a street where there was a dead end there was a lady who barricaded herself in her house with a  gun shots in the neighborhood the police showed up the swat showed up we couldn't evacuate the neighborhood because she was the first house in the dead end street and it could not get past her house to get the residents out if something like this happens neither one of these two they're not granted the chance that happening it don't accuse me about not being concerned about the interest of children ok i have a one year old daughter and a five year old daughter ok i completely understand i completely understand your sentiments ok never like i said earlier the neighborhood i grew up in isn't like it was twenty years to discuss with council you know is normally our practice not to issue a building permit until there is a highway on with the permit issued by panda if we do that in this case  we will have the effect of the plane the construction of the school and in my opinion there really is not a reason to do that because this isn't like we're dealing with a private entity we're dealing with another public it be better to push all of this traffic on to this new road were creating so that whenever congestion there is associated with the school be placed on this new road and then to townsend's existing protect the townships interests i don't know what i mean accounts want to get together for another meeting next monday the day before this we can do through these but i don't i don't know what else it is we would include i think come t again me not performing sort of scientific survey they're just basing that on my own personal observations i mean there's you know the idea to put eight percent of the townships traffic through traffic through a traffic circle twenty four seven and expect ok i'm going to go back to the school district because they have a different i don't think there can be concern about that but i gotta go back to school districts so they know