excuse me i'm going to interrupt for a moment and this is on the substantial evidence point i mean the board went through the specification carefully and just said hey look there's too much kicking into things going on here and that rationale for contraindication or reason to exclude one alternative environment in favor of another that is sufficient where the in this case a coast audience are described as alternative environments that can be included in be included and then there's a clear indication of eight different to close off and that can be selected from there presented as an alternative doctor elder in his deposition testimony just like to see this expert agreed that this language would mean that you could select only one to be included and so in this in this type of situation where you have a small number of optional come softens that are given we submit that that is sufficient to provide a written description of the composition of the county exclude others that says you can use them all in combination that's correct your honor said in the when the inventors identify the use of khowst often say to indicate that you can use them individually or in combination and so i they could be used in combination didn't defeat support for the negative claim limitation so i read those cases differently there's no discussion of mutual exclusivity and indeed the facts support that in those cases the alternatives that were disclosed were not entirely exclusive that you might well be correct if there were no negative claim limitation here but the problem is there is a negative claim limitation and something more is required then merely the disclosure that there be evidence of contra indication of the food elements all that's required is that you positively step forth turnitin body and then you can claim one exclude the other and that's exactly what the st is because the fanjul evidence supports the board's finding that a skilled artist and what has to do too much picking and choosing from the specification to get to the composition that's embodied in the interference cast the opposed to the negative claim limitation  combinations and prescriptions that come up with the subject matter of the count which is insufficient to establish a constructive reduction to practice the subject matter of the challenge so again your honor i would say that what the board to say here i think we've got the record but what's so what is your what do you think the law requires before you can support the negative limitation here i would say that  choir providing a reason to exclude it just found that in anything you didn't need to specifically say one is better than the other which is what happened and part so there is still require that to find a reason to  disclosure of a particular combination rather than leaving the skilled artisan to make choices would that standard be satisfied here determine priority we've discussed in the red brief why that is i'm happy to answer questions on that but in a nutshell we presented evidence that we needed to present to get before the date that the board afforded clare references some discussion about picking and choosing doesn't mean that licensing presented that argument to the board and in fact when you look at the evidence that is in this record there is nowhere that like to seen or is that expert d elder ever took the position or offered the opinion that a person of ordinary skill in the arts would believe that there was too much picking and choosing to select polyethylene glycol and exclude ethanol there's there's never any place lacks argument any evidence to support it and moreover to the extent that the board's decision is based on some you know some evidence of of too much picking and choosing there is no evidence there is no substantial evidence to support that opinion because that evidence was simply never part of the wrecker similarly the argument about new blades marked was never made so that can't be part of the record there cannot be substantial evidence to support that i also want to point out th