good morning everyone i'd like to call the board of selectmen meeting of tuesday october twenty seventh two thousand and fifteen to order please excuse my voice a little hoarse and that means i'll be talking l on our agenda we're going to begin with an executive session to talk about coaching a village and then we will come back into open session where we will take a vote hopefully on some pushing village documentation and then we have a one day liquor license to approve common victor license proclamation for belmont media cables at belmont media centers anniversary and then and then we will have s pension obligation forum which is scheduled for tomorrow evening so with that do i hear a motion to go into executive session so moved i think someone should read the motion parking management agreement we reviewed and approved an easement agreement that would give us fifty parking spaces in the garage to be constructed and we approved those documents inside of an open session sense that time the developers lenders have requested changes to the documents you know to do to protect lender rights  george our town council has been working on those agreements and has approved some revisions to the thought you meant that is what we reviewed in executive session and i think we feel comfortable right now that as long as there are no further substantive changes we are in a position to approve the documents as amended and to resign those and as long as there's no further substantive changes then what we can do is when the documents are in final form we can sign them individually which imitate just further background for the viewing audience that th it's his lenders have come back with changes subsequent to us executing documents so frankly we've been somewhat frustrated by the process but i think i'm ready to move forward and hope that this is final at this point in time because i think i get asked i'm sure you of you get us as well what's delay on the project it's not this board it's not the town fortunately it's developer and his lenders so hopefully this is the final final leg final leg and we can sign to move forward ok agenda application for a one day liquor license from belmont media center to serve wine and beer at an event on october twenty ninth two thousand and fifteen which is this thursday at the beach street center ok i think that is fairly standard and routine and introduce yourself is right next to the belmont said emma that's where there was a burrito correct place before and now you are all over yes you're the new owner yes and you've expanded and changed the concept not expanded by change the concept ok can you tell us your name for the record yes my name is jose rios sales are i ok will you tell us what your plan what your concept is yes the concept is fast casual operation that serves quite assortment of soups along with salads sandwiches and some specialty raf's it is mostly taiko basically i've been approved for well i don't know how much i'm sitting i asked for thirteen seats but it looks like i'm only going to have  o'clock on the weekends and seven o'clock monday through thursday closed on sundays and we do not deliver to accept phone orders for people  come pick up whatever they avoided now you have sitting there now which technically you're not supposed to have correct i was asked to beat taken out which i did and i put the school i had five stools o people do line up in and i like it to be comfortable for the people when they come in and i you know i'm pretty comfortable with just the seen one window well your license yes yes yes and people are able to come in and sample as much as you like you want but wouldn't you know purchase necessary so you know you're all invited by the way tr offer any besides popcorn and candy bars they don't offer much but i wanted to make sure that i got permission first i don't know how it works and you know convicts us license  and they've provided a great community service and you know they help our board and committee deliberations become more transparent by televising them  their tenth anniversary annual meeting this thursday and i think i buy i'll be there i know mark will be there i think jim will be there till so so that is henschel he is terrific as well as a volunteer members of the b m c board of directors both past and present and whereas in addition to these individuals countless members of the b m c's professional staff and volunteers in the bella community have passionately supported the many in a verse re celebrations for the belmont media center and that they will continue to be successful in their mission of developing and promoting access to electronic communications media to the residents of the town of belmont now therefore be it was all over the board selection of the town of belmont will be sending to the the farm of telecommunications and cable based upon our last meeting i'm also happy to report that based upon the hard work of this board and previous boards the execution of the sale of the would fall road parcel has taken place we closed on friday and dokken submit recorded monday and we have again through a very extensive process with the water of ups and downs have finally come to a conclusion of the sale which will allow for the building of four residences on the on the property and  so i just wanted to inform that and congratulate you on the efforts of getting that executes into has been several years in the making yes and let me elaborate on that if it truly has been a long process and you know i know our staff david you know fellas community development conservation commission you know have all been involved in that approval process i am pleased that the sale has finally taken place on friday it went on record yesterday funds have been wired to our account and the gross sales price was one point seven five million so that is the sort of  that is that is good knows and that's one project we can put a check mark next to the next big challenges question village and we are going to close that hopefully sooner rather than later i would district to that we i plan to attend jack weiss our school committee representative will also be there we've talked about this at length so i will be at the pension forum by the war committee so it's continue dialogue with the member towns in particular members of their boards to try to understand you know a solution with this building project district agreement so it's over it's very complicated you've heard me talk about the several times so i just want to give one everyone notice that i will be attending that means more and i report back to this board in terms of what to comes out of it yet and i want to thank you for all your work out that's from this regard because i know it's time consuming it's many meetings working with many other rock communities and resolution some of the issues we've chatted about if not we're we're very down on a hundred forty four million dollars school building that's oversized for the district in which belmont share of that cost is projected to be somewhere in there in the range of three hundred to five hundred thousand per year for the through that on top of living i was we have to do not to say that we don't want to support a rebuild and clearly support vocational education it's just not a proper in our continued concern about building a high school that is twice as large as it needs to be or close to twice as large it needs to be for the member towns mr you may want to remind people about them you know november tenth oh that's right yeah and of course we have a public on the high school but i think the purpose of the media is to inform again that the town hopefully all can attend about the building project and you know from my point of view i think as a board and jack weiss as well i want to get a sense of the community  of the direction that i think we should be on this matter and so hopefully they'll be a great attendance david and with folks and ask questions about the building project i have talked of which spalding who is chair of  the building committee he's also a member of he's from dover he's also a member of that school committee and he's trying to work with this community so i would suggest that they're trying to work with us but we have a difference point of view on this we'll see what happens would be on camera yes yes presentation to us in advance of the warren committee forum tomorrow but i don't think it's proper for us to have a substantive discussion you know as you know on the merits of whether ok since i'm on the board too i don't want to deliberate today yeah but i think the information is absolutely critical in terms of getting started and i also wanted to say that i consider this to be independent of the report from the work committee that will be in that public education program tomorrow night because i believe that we have independent activities that we need to undertake and i think the report that is it's on our desk we have to pay attention to how the pension for the underfunded pension fund and the unfunded health care fund are being managed with regard to that we've agreed the town has agreed to enrich ization of its unfunded seventy million dollars pension obligation at seven and a happer send interest requiring cash payments totaling one hundred twenty five million over the next thirteen years these are just facts in fiscal two thousand and sixteen the amortization payment is around seven million it escalates annually at seven percent to fifteen million at twenty twenty seven which is the final scheduled payment subsequently the strategy is to redirect that fifteen million dollar payment to address our unfunded opeth obligations beginning in two thousand and twenty eight into prepared to it so you can you can imagine a stream of payments totaling one hundred twenty five million over the next thirteen years and then there after a fifteen million i don't be formally voter and strategy but i think that's been the thinking well that's that's what's in the actuarial report ok so these are this this is our current strategy and these commitments together if you just simply add them up it's a total of three hundred eighty million dollars over the next over a thirty year planning period so what's the concern just as we have estimated and made long term cash payment commitments to remedy our unfunded obligations we can  also estimate our long term revenues our operating expenses debt capacity of the needs and financial condition to estimate a usable outlook over the planned period and i want to say that i don't think we we would be able to do this unless the financial taskforce had accomplished what it is accomplished because we have three years of history we have five years of of of forecast and then what you can do is a steady state forecast going out you have to make certain assumptions but then you can begin to see what what can happen to the town financials based on financial task force work and then a steady state projection we also know from an accounting standpoint that the town will will be technically insolvent as of june thirtieth two thousand and sixteen when our liabilities exceed our assets as the pension fund obligations come on the balance sheet on paper yeah come on balance sheet consequently i believe and i think others agree that although not all others that our debt capacity will come into question in our bond rating will be at risk just when we expect to enter a per capital project expenditures how much debt are we talking about seventy two million for unfunded pension obligations and one hundred thirty million as of six thirty two thousand and eighteen for the two mounts represent eighty percent of our two hundred fifty million dot com passerby in the other concerned yes in a word cash flow the financial taskforce projections forecast the cash short for three point one million for two thousand and nineteen as the status quo pension amortization increases the cash shortfall under a studied state projection model and i agree i'm the one who's done this model although we've we can choose the status quo which will require the hundred twenty six five point seven million in cash payments those are currently scheduled over the next thirteen years and possibly another override as early as two hundred two thousand thousand to fund we can also extend the status quo amortization which reduces the annual cash outlays but increases the door to door costs because when you extend the amortization you have to pay interest on the on the extension or another option is to issue a sixty million twenty year taxable pension obligation bond as a debt exclusion with a three percent coupon which will fix annual so forty five million dollars savings and again i has i add that this is one scenario but i think we have to think about this in terms of scenarios the door to door cash cost of the pension obligation bonds option that i just described is forty five million less than the status quo option of the hundred twenty five million so in other words if you issue if you can issue a pension obligation bond and there are a number of things that we have to do before we can do that if we choose to do that the door to door costs meaning it's just like a mortgage a twenty year mortgage to fix daniel payment four million times twenty years is eighty million dollars and that's versus one hundred twenty five point seven that we're currently scheduled to pay over the next thirteen years and wait it gets even got here because if you do this bond and you're paying four million a year for twenty years four times thirteen it's fifty two million so over the next thirteen years if you do a bond as we have seen here you'll only be spending fifty two million instead of one hundred twenty five you see that  point i don't follow the numbers jim but that's fine with ok no no it's good i don't really funky in between part of it's part of understand what you're suggesting but i'm not agreeing that the numbers are correct i'm just under so listening to you ok so from this example if the if four million a year compared to what we understand the point ok point you what makes this possible there are two factors there's a lower interest rate on the unfunded the seven year maturity expense in the extension so for that reason the expenditure during the next thirteen years is much lower than than what we've currently agreed to and won't the voters have to agree to a debt exclusion in the answer is yes we would ask them to agree to a debt lucian so why would they do that under this scenario they would do that to save the seventy three million for the thirteen year amortization period that we just talked about the second they would do it to permit the return of the scheduled amortization payment totaling one hundred twenty five million in third to avoid another override so this is the key point in in  restructuring the current pension obligation amortization schedule that we have if you do it with the pension obligation bond you replace the current schedule in the hundred twenty five million that we would have spent on the pension amortization goes back to the states for goes back to the operating budget and by doing it with the debt exclusion what happens is the four million in debt service comes from an agreement by the taxpayers to do the debt exclusion so this is still not clear because the taxpayers have just agreed to a four and a half million dollar override and now under this scenario we'd be asking for another four million yes that's true that is true because the previously scheduled six point three million and pension  talking about two thousand and sixteen will return to the operating budget in permit the town to maintain the cash surplus until leases are nice and money certainly well we're not deliberating weights i just i don't know some of these assumptions jim we need to discuss further we've committed to spend one hundred twenty five million we're not delivering but we've committed to do that if you restructure that obligation either by extending it or refinancing it you can reduce the amount of money that will  that we're using to service that obligation and if you do it under a pension obligation bond structure and you you get that approved as a debt exclusion you bring new money into the into the structure then you have to decide ok what am i going to do with the money that was previously scheduled to make the pension payment in the answer is it goes back to the operating budget so that's your assumption  that surplus to be into in the operating budget in the answer is they probably don't and so under this scenario we're not currently funding  and this is how we got into the pension problem in the first place so we can remedy the opeth problem long term by funding two and a half million per year going forward so in other words if you have if you if you're getting six and a half million back from from from refinancing the action obligation you can take two and a half of that six and a half and put it towards open now and if you do that it will begin to have a long term solution will be going to be a long term solution for the opeth problem as well we still have four million left on the money that's coming back to the operating budget and what we can do with that is we can actually do an under ride in return that to the taxpayer and what that would end up in this is a scenario now don't say no right away this would reduce the two thousand and fifteen override to a half a million for annum and maintain an operating surplus until at least twenty twenty one now it sounds too good to be true so you're going to need more than my word on this and i believe that we should that the board of selectmen should issue a pension open fund management r f p and select an investment bank to review the situation for us and make a recommendation as to what we should do i'd like to ask the board to do this in november and ask the investment bank for a two thousand and fifteen december report i believe time is of the essence because the savings are too large to ignore any longer and then there are other considerations the status quo option which is what we have now mark this is what the warrant committee refers to as the status quo that's one hundred twenty five million it is essentially the equivalent of a pension obligation bond with the state instead of a public pension obligation but because you've agreed to amortize the unfunded at seven and percent it's exactly the same thing  the other the other thing i think we need to explore is that the pension actuarial projections and i stand to be corrected on this but i believe it to be true includes the cole was in the projections so the reason that's a problem is that the retirement board can approve a three percent call up for the first twelve thousand of the pension payment the enya pension payment is about twenty five thousand dollars so that means they have the discretion to approve a one point five percent increase in in their retirement payments here and if you run that over a thirty year projection period compound ing it it amounts to a fifty six percent increase in the obligation and i would like to see our actuary run the projections without the cola so that we can figure out what what the what the unfunded pension amount is without the oh and i also would propose that we run the x where real projection at a seven and a half percent discount instead of the four and a half that we're using now and include the two and a half million funding beginning in fiscal two thousand and sixteen in the reason for that is that the reason the pension fund is running at seven and a half percent is that that's the historic rate that you can earn on funds that are in a fund you know that the assets that are there under management so that seven and a half percent is a good number even though it would be difficult to achieve in today's market it's still a good and by running the open at a four and a half percent discount what that does is it makes the present value of the obligation higher and we're also we have to funds in the running at two different interest rates so the seven and a half percent is required by the state i think we should have our open actuary run at seven and a half percent run and then assume that we're going to put two and a half million against it and see what happens over the thirty year planning period in i've already done that privately but and i know the answer but i think you'll be pleasantly surprised if we can do these two things and we need advice and we need help do it what'll happen is just as cushing square hopefully will close before november fifth one thousand if we can do these two things the pension problem goes away it doesn't go away completely because we still have to pay for it but the  payments are greatly reduced and the opeth problem will go away if we can do these two things so it's my understanding that when i worked on the financial taskforce you know the question was who runs the town and some people said it's the town meeting some people say it's the board of selectmen some think it's the town administrator in the almost of well you're going to have more than a year and a half that i've been involved in this i believe that it's the board selectmen we are the ones who are responsible for this outcome and i think that we can from from our from our good offices we can we can ask the actuaries to run the runs that  are needed to evaluate different scenarios and i also think that we can hire an investment bank who is is acceptable to all the different parties  i can think of three or four that we already know we have a financial advisor sun trust i believe that the software first southwest excuse me siegel also does the pensions the pension actual what it would look like and i think they should be one of one of the options and according to david they they did buy bonds for the high school the last time that was we did a bond issue for the high school so i think the three of us are responsible for this and i think we have the authority in the process to begin to address this but no one else really has i don't think it can come from the treasurer's office i don't think it can come from the warrant committee and i don't think it can come from you know deliberate on this today this is certainly want to approach it has assumptions i'm not trying necessarily agree with all the assumptions and i and i don't think it properly out lines the risks on the other side of the table either but that's a discussion for a for another day what i do want to build upon though is is your statement of who runs the town and i agree with you ok i think an initiative such as this is a major policy decision for the town of belmont with the risks and possible benefits and i do agree it is a policy discussion that should initiate with the board of selectmen with the board of selectmen the three member board ok jim there's an appearance that you and some of your supporters are going out and making representations to people and investment bankers and companies without first having the proper process of a discussion among the three person board of selectmen you know the stifle letter i'm going to read you know i'm going to read certain excerpts on behalf of stifle nicholas and company incorporated this letter confirms certain preliminary terms of our engagement to serve as lead managing underwriter for the town of belmont concerning a prospective pension bond issu the belmont contributory contributory retirement system the town this is skipping the town has engaged stifle nicholas and company incorporated to serve as the underwriter and not as financial advisor or municipal adviser in connection with the issuance of the bonds next page it is our understanding that you have the authority to bind the town by contract with us and then it says jim williams with the signature line it bothers me when one selectman without having brought this discussion in advance goes and represents to an investment banker ok and you know pension open bond ohp liability bond underwriter that they have the authority to be negotiating these things with them when the process is nowhere near that stage it also bothers me personally when on your recommendation ok we appoint people to non statutory committees like the economic development advisory committee and then those people contact investment bankers represent they're a member of a committee and purport to communicate as though they have the authority to speak on behalf of the town about these major policy decisions that this board has not even taken a position on it's something that's been troubling me for a while and i think it's very important to air this out publicly and engage in a discussion because i think it's important to set a protocol for future policy decisions being made on behalf of this town i also don't think it's proper when again members who we have appointed to committees start emailing members of the warrant committee and board of us to pressure the town administrator to sign this document when again there is a municipal process and procedure we are nowhere near being binding this talent on an schedule but i have to tell you jim i was shocked that we see you sent this this engagement letter to us wraps with the right intention but i think procedurally incorrect i mean totally inappropriate for you to have gone out represent the town to this chicago organization and then frankly jim what all due respect to share what i believe perhaps you have been a confidential document with your former campaign manager and other supporters and then they're lobbying us saying what's delay in signing this letter i mean are you kidding me i mean it's totally inappropriate jim let's work together not outside i mean i don't go often separately unilaterally meet with vendors to gauge the town so we're going to work together on this issue and we should more thing jim the reason why this discussion is i mean this is something that i think has been festering but that shock is not it's beyond mark and myself i've heard from numerous members of the warrant committee and numerous other community leaders who have said what is going on here you know why isn't the board as a whole deliberating before we go out and get all this pressure to sign a contract with an investment banker and rightfully so i mean you disagree well i think a couple of things if i may yeah first of all i the way you can sit on the side of the table now i kind of like i kind of like this side because i can see you know i  to send the wrong message no i i'm i'm not taking it the wrong way and hopefully the public won't either yeah i think a couple of things as you know i worked for the old swiss bank corp for ten years and it's now u b s in switzerland they have a convention that when you're in a situation such as the one i'm in that you're getting your head washed that's what it's called no no no i you know the process no i understand i understand so i'm just saying you know it's it's not it can happen in it's ok with me and i think you i think from where you're sitting it's you know the points are well taken but i do i do want to say  that the the process here is is one that has taken on a life of its own it was not my intention to have that i could not represent the town because i understand that and but i asked them how would how what would be the next step going forward and what they told me was that they had certain engagement letters and they would send us one so  said fine i sent it to david yes i sent you the in i asked david to check with george hall because they reference certain mass general laws that apply to these matters and i asked david to check that with george yes and we discussed it again friday so this this you know the letter is a straw man letter basically is what it is and it was misinterpreted by two people who had been encouraging the board to to do x y and c neither one of them called me if they had called me i would have explained to them if i don't want to college and ok so i apologize for that but it's not as it appears is what i'm trying to explain to you and i wasn't totally operating in the rug because i wanted to to find out for the board you know how to how do you go about and gauging this particular firm and encourage us when we had time to talk about it which you have given me today to think about it's time now to engage in investment banking firm to put the pension report together which was finished by the warren committee in the opec report which we can run scenarios on they're going to finish by year end and then we need to decide what to do whether we're going to let the status quo continue whether we're going to try to extend the pension the pension schedule with iraq or whether we're going to try to do a pension obligation bond or something different now these people told me that they when they look at the town of belmont situation they may not recommend a pension obligation bond because it's not it's not always the solution and at this point you know i'm beyond my excel spreadsheets i'm beyond you know what i can do on my own and and i believe that the town needs expert help in determining what our strategy is going to be going forward and so that's that's where i'm at and that's what i'm proposing ok can i can i ask you know we have our town treasurer here and we have a former select from and  someone else and in the back any comments any questions any from the audience pl ahead sign whatever you want we do have a financial advisor first southwest we've had them for twenty plus she is they they can probably do a lot of jim's talk about i'm not that not a dime  there's lots of you know that there's lots of things that i agree with there's lots of things i disagree with but the point i want to make about interest rates assumptions because you mentioned about  other town i think it was a retirement boy and i heard two or three years ago this is a pension obligation on which is taxable i would say at the very earliest that you'd issue of on like this would probably be in a couple of years i put some numbers together for it greg manus i talked with peter frazier and we genuinely agreed that somewhere between four and a half four point seven five would be  the interest rate i went back to look at i wellington school twenty five year obligation it was four percent nine taxable so i don't think are foreign to have four point seven five to fire off three percent i i think that's that that's what we that's what we get for a five year deal prime example the the last year we did there was a five year deal the support that one hundred percent is that i've said this before i'm not moving i'm here for the duration so you know it's not like i'm leaving out of the year or two i'm going to be around here i'll probably be carried out i hope you really know what i find i find it's a little frustrating because not once not once if you called me on this i didn't get any of this i didn't get any of this information i wish i had of ahead of time that i could've looked at it but putting that aside i'm i'm i'm the one that set the current strategy cheap the reason i said the current strategy is we're going to be faced with one hundred million dollars high school i've said this in front of the warrant committee i've said it at town meeting i've said it over and over again the most critical thing is to preserve a triple a rating that is so critical a state was made earlier about debt limit the debt limit rate now deals with our municipal financing of bonds so if we go out and add pension obligation bonds that impacts that look at the strategy with moody's because i'm constantly talk with moody's is where we're going to be funding our hopefully we're going to get our room pension funded by two thousand and twenty seven  eight we're going to take those resources and put it into our opeth obligation at the same time we've got a trust we've got a policy and we've been finding out where one of the few communities that does that that has all three from a moody's per specked of they look at all three hundred fifty one communities and they say the same thing we understand the accounting guidance it's coming down the road but we're going to be looking at over and over and this is the direction we're going in moody's is very very happy with that from a rating perspective i clearly understand how the numbers roll i clearly understand he in fact a balance sheet but as i said earlier we're all in the same soup all three hundred fifty one three s including the federal government if we decide to take pension obligation but that's what the voters decide that becomes always the one thing i always try to walk in other people's shoes and that is if to a point in time where the residents are going to say i've got that exclusion over  because eighty percent of our revenue comes from eight thousand two hundred seventy five customers those are real estate property tax but may close with this when i went out bonded interest but here's how i look at it when i look at the high school i'm looking at six groups of taxpayers are going to use to high school over a four year period of time twenty four years ok work that they did in the analysis is important and informative but there's no recommendation and i think i agree with the point that jim is made we have to make a decision on this either status quo extend the  matter because this is a very complicated issue i mean if we're going to extend what does that mean that makes sense if it's not status quo which we've been sort of it seems that where the first in the state on funding my point when he said we're the only community that's sticking to that according to the war committee report so maybe that strategy that we've that discussed years ago doesn't continue to make sense so though we have to stretch truly completely funded by twenty forty no matter  germany first of all floyd carman will always be my chairman because he was the chairman of the revenue opportunity here committee when i started on the financial task force i think he's a lion of belmont  i did not contact floyd he's right about that but i didn't contact you intentionally because i cannot talk to these two gentlemen except in this forum and i wanted to talk to them first ok ok and as i said you will always be my chairman but you know i want to talk to these were the board of selectmen and i want to you know now i've asked you a number of times over the past year and a half who runs the town and you always tell me it's the board of selectmen yes and and when i don't have as much experience as you all do on the planning board in the war committee etc etc but when i you know i wasn't born yesterday and i can see how things work it's clear to me that we have we are considered to be the chief executive officers of the town and that makes us not only responsible but accountable for what happened here and great and and i when i sample which we didn't have before and he's used that to negotiate with the moodies which which has been very successful but i think you know we've been now we're at the river and we got across the river because low interest rates aren't going to last forever and i think it's important for the three of us because we're the elected c e o s to decide you know what we should do going forward and we don't have a year to figure this out because interest rates are moving you know situation can move but we do have the data that we need we have we have the open backs were report is is a good report the pension fund actuarial report is a good report the financial taskforce work that's a good report so we have everything we need in front of us to say do we want to do it this way or do we want to do it that way and whatever way we decide as mark says you know then then then we'll know what's going to cost you know because the warrant committee subcommittee did a good job in in telling us what the options are and we need that answer first before we can address open head and then you put it all together and you decide ok are we going to stay where we are we going to do something different and that is that's where i'm at to now used the good offices of the people who are on the solar committee and i think it's time to have a professional look at this you know somebody come in from the outside and say ok here's your situation this is what we think you should do now if that's our current financial advisor that's that's ok with me i understand the art of p process and and i you know regret that what happened happened but you know it these things happen so maybe maybe that's the way to do it or maybe the the next thirty m right so i can and oh yeah we're talking about both yeah ok so let me let me remind you that right now we have a commitment to pay our pension off at twenty twenty seven that that's not that's not an option every year we have a payment opap is still in the option stage so whatever decisions get made going forward if we decide we're going on a pension obligation blinds that now becomes a commitment to pay those bonds if we decide we're going to i'm just throwing this out if we decide we want to get cutesy and have opened up obligation bonds that's another commitment so that all of those things are some commitments my suggestion would be i would deal with pension obligation bonds for stock as get some information i met what what's the pros and cons  the problem is when you stack getting into the bigger picture you can if it's too much to handle well i hear that but but it's on our desk we're the ones that have to decide what to do in the two are related ok let me i don't crime we this is a subject we often talk about the very structure of meanings none of us i have been contacted in the last ten years i've been honest job from these investment banks from these financial advisors push innocent direction of pension obligation bonds because what they clearly understand is it's a huge risk we always talk about the upside but we never talk about the tool weight tool ny market correction that whack the hell out of a lot of these pensions this is one of the reasons that some of these schedules have been extended the other point i will make is the current plan we have in place i think it i think it needs to be looked at i would agree you need to come up with the options but let me make it clear if this was such a swimming  but with regard to that if you have a pension fund that's one hundred percent funded and the market goes down thirty percent you're still seventy percent funded if you have a pension fund that's fifty percent funded and the market goes down thirty percent you're only thirty five percent funded so to me the idea of fully funding the pension fund is is is not is not out of bounds in fact i think it's probably a good idea but i don't i'm  necessarily stumbling pension obligation bonds what i'm selling is because i'm sitting here and you're sitting here and you're sitting you know we cannot kick this down the road it has to be we have to decide what to do and and the town meeting has to authorize the issuance of a bond then there may be and probably would be a debt exclusion vote that would have to take place then you have to get special enabling legislation from the state because you can't do this with that and when you start negotiating that special enabling legislation it's going to take all long time as it usually does the last he'll be issued with what product and and there's a two page set of conditions at the executive office of finance put on brockton just to make sure they wouldn't lose money for example they could not take the proceeds of that but and bring it into their operating budget for a long long time many many years because the executive office didn't want this to crash so they required all of those protests any profits from all of this anything profits of the spread between the two interest rates has to go into a reserve ok then do i hear a motion to approve monday july twenty second two thousand and fifteen meeting minutes from move to move out of favor ok chairman do we have to do both open an executive given you comments on if there is no red line and basically there are no comments that you provide on the twenty thirty first there were no comments and ok so the august thirty first two thousand and fifteen regular