people that will be coming so with your permission i will introduce them as we call them up for the various items instead of listing them all now yes of course i want to start with our committee staff miss killing miss kim kim willi use the munden had given many years to this community in many areas but also served on this council and he always had a caring attitude about people he was very quiet and i would like to thank mr white for his facebook posting thank you very much for saying what we all felt in our hearts about mr munden i remember meeting him many a time  it was a very interesting man to talk to and i will miss him and i think the county of maui is a better place for what he did in his years of service not only on the council but many of the camping study helped the other one was a business leader and billy's as many of you know had given not only of his time but his money to this community talk about philanthropic this man was one of the best i've ever known and over the thirty years that i had associated with the levy family darvin always had a caring attitude real common sense approach to what goes on in this community especially our business community and what it was the arts and cultural center and other non profits this man really and his family really really gave a lot millions of dollars but more important millions of hours in helping this community be a better place so i think he has lost two great men but more importantly we have been blessed to have them upon sauce for years and for what they have done to make my county a better place and with your permission i'd like everyone if you would take a moment and let's give a moment of silence and pay our condolences to the entire family of the munden and the leaves and since we stand in their hour of need a console it's of the good lord e stay focused so that we can tackle many of these items as as possible in each and every meeting first of all we have public distal money which i will be starting very shortly i wish that everyone who hasn't signed up will sign up at the desks or at the district offices you'll be allowed a limit of three minutes at two and a half minutes the yellow light will start flashing and the red light will stop will flash at three minutes if you are still talking after three minutes i company connection to our district office and to be fair i will try to route rotate each of the sites at this time i would like to open public testimony with no objections thank you then we do we have any mystify is signed up does the fire sun up in the chambers ok let me check with the district offices if we have anyone signed up for testimony one office done is there think you and ella do you have anyone wishing to testify you are right thank you i will give one more opportunity to anyone in the gallery scouts and i want to imagine they're here doing their civic merit badge am i correct in that yes yes would you stand to be recognized please and what you put you from t resolution is to approve or disapprove the appointment of timothy bailey to the mahi county cultural resource commission for a term expiring march thirty first two thousand and seventeen to fill the vacancy due to the resignation of the lord who bought the i didn't i did request the presence of mr bailey however he was unable to make the meeting due to a job commitment at this time mr morley you know if you could provide us with a little support of timothy bailey to the cultural resources commission to fill out the rest of the term of gaylord kubota who resigned recently the term of course expires on march thirty first two thousand and seventeen mr bailey is comes from a very well known com in a family here on mali he is fluent in hawaiian language and is well versed in history and i also believe his family ties to the well known bailey house museum which is right across the street and he expressed a desire to serve the county of mali and he's currently questions if the members have any thank you thank you and i want to also make note that mr bailey is also a member of the roll order of come help me again i think that speaks a little bit of both the chair and yeah i totally concur with spices comments mr bailey is been so you know working with culture and education and he definitely brings i think he's going to bring a lot to the table as he states in his comments of why he would like to participate he also why i met him through the humble council and he's been very instrumental in taking care of that in making sure the voices of recommendation ok thank you excuse me mr chair yes if you will just note on the resolution the first and second it resolved clauses will need to be amended to corrections any challenge any problems with that members no problems with death ok thank you and so i was going to see it at that i would like to recommend members first and second we had resolved on the clauses on the resolution need to be to see any cultural resource commission read it in the board of water supply at this time i will entertain a motion to approve the nomination of timothy bearly to be a member of the ma we cultural and cultural resource commission and the filing of the communication mr gulch thank you m i move to approve the resolution to appoint a member entitled appointment of a member to the maori county culture resources commission by placing the name of timothy bailey exhibit b and moving on to i don't number two procedures regarding d n a tests results by the police and procedures p i eighteen the committee is in receipt of conic communication fifteen dash one zero nine from myself we are leading to the procedures of the department of police and department of prosecuting attorney regarding d n a test results you may recall that we had a very unfortunate incident in the news that happened several months ago involving a gentleman and a tragic occurrence in this in this community i wanted to bring this forward so that we could see if there's members of the police department and the prosecuting office regarding the procedures related to d n a testing and to see if there's anything else the consequent do to help prevent occurrence of a similar situation in the future so at this time i'd like to call up the representatives from the police department and the prosecuting attorney's office would you come forward please gentleman if i'm correct ladies and gentlemen let me introduce the representatives first of all from our prosecuting attorney's office j d came the morning good morning and from the police evan is a police evidence specialist statements i will allow you a moment to start mr kim good morning and thank you for the invitation to address this issue d n a analysis has been in m had the first case that went to trial with the f b i coming in to testify and since then it's a progress so much that the nomenclature i haven't been able to keep up with in those days we were using that is being qualified and so i guess back in the day there was a push for each county to have the it's own police lab and this was in the late eight we were warned that it was looking at bringing all those monies from the state legislature into which would have a state of the art lab laboratory  forensic laboratory and that we would be able to share analysis with with that i mean they would take our cases and we wouldn't we want to say we i mean the our documents and the other counties would not be put on the backburner slowly but surely our small labs could not meet the expenditures went into supporting that laboratory so the county laboratories are very small and not as sophisticated as what we see in so we submit  a evidence we stand in line we speak to the chief and ask his assistance when we when we need to get it done quickly thank you circumstances where we need to have those things who really tested quickly would have to go to a private firm somewhere and are on the west course they do have those businesses that are can do that but of course with that those funds you know it's not it's not a cheap thing h p d does it for us for no fee you know just signed on to that i think mr earles here can answer a lot of you folks questions if you do have questions regarding what it takes i would like to reiterate the fact that honolulu he has been very supportive of us as you may recall the sexual assaults we had was about six years ago maybe even seven years ago in town were having the elderly ladies that were being assaulted they really stepped up because it was such a high profile case for us so i'm here basically to answer any questions well thank you for making here i think we opened the floor up to questions a couple of weeks rationale for what i'm doing today one of the reasons was as you just mentioned have to suva is there any other methodology of expediting areas such as homicides with the backlog that you're talking about and if the be one of the areas that we're going to look into you know is funding you know we're not here to start discussing who has right or what's wrong because there's many aspects but the funding issue is something that we may be able to look at so that when we have you have your own and you see you have from guam so that even makes the situation even that more dire at times so that's what that was my thought process and walk into this whole issue is where we could do better if we put some financial resources available for those serious cases like i'm referring to ok so that was the whole issue so that everybody knows where i wanted to take this to date so i will open the flop to discuss the testing samples that you know we have we don't have the funds and we should put in for the funds for separate funds for specialized testing in the mail in all these facilities can in a turnaround can be really short  give us stats maybe to or question of your thank you just so we have an idea because we've all watched c s i shows and it does not happen in a forty five minutes i can guarantee you that ok what we're talking about is with the science the way it currently is the d n a analysis typically on one sample takes fifty four days ok now that's with a scientist dedicated to one sample all right so it's that and that's an average across the nation so it's not something that's just in hawaii we're having a problem everywhere is a backlog ok but we're looking at fifty four days that's for a murder case ok i will also say that in a private lab if you send out a sample for d n a testing you're talking about twelve hundred dollars purse sample now you have to have your known samples of people who are at the scene to exclude them you also have to have samples from the question or the person who is a suspect so you can see that will add up very quickly there's also additional cost because let's say we send our samples out to a private laboratory they will come back with an exam an answer which we will then use to make an arrest and of course prosecution we got to ship the scientist here for testimony in court again we have to pay these bills they do have fast track and as a matter of fact in this particular case that happened january second of this year and now we county  the honolulu police department was very very quick in their terms ok in their calendar of getting our case because of the profile of the case and they were within actually  so that happened on january second the evidence was able to be introduced into their calendar and they requested it to be shipped to them on thirteen days later ok so i know it seems like a long time but again it has to go through the process of chief to chief requesting their services going through the chain of command talking to their d n a section and making sure that the analysts are there  once the analysts is completed the testing they actually provided a verbal preliminary result within like a week and a half from when they received it again that's right along that same time line we're talking about the fifty four hours unfortunately we cannot take action on a preliminary result because they are an accredited laboratory by an international association so they have to maintain standards which means their reputation is at stake with every case so they have a second analyst review all of the data and make sure that it is accurate and that the results are accurate once that is done it has to go through a quality control a person who all they do is make sure their job over there is to make sure that every base is covered and that there are no questions that can pop up surprise through the report especially by defense attorneys in court then the official report was received by my we police department and our detective was able to execute for arrest so we were able to get  grand jury but again with grand jury it's every every friday so we got the information on thursday we couldn't make it to that grand jury because it has to be preparations so it had to wait one more week so i will say that it took from day one which was january second to when the actual arrest was eighty days and i know it seems like a long time but you go imagine there was a lot of players again on television it shows one person doing everything from making the arrest to doing the crime scene i mean it makes it seem so simple but we have to depend on other experts who will then come to court and testify about their results well you know without being specific you something made it sound very expensive and it's ok so again from a cost factor you know i would understand i mean we deal with procedures we understand you have your protocols procedures to ensure integrity in your results we understand that and we appreciate the professionalism of your employees but you know from what i hear the chairman is looking at is so is there depending again on the evidence that's there and of course there are limitations i know everyone thinks because of television that c s i effect you hear about talk about in court the jurors they all watch c television so they think they know all the answers and for us it's a challenge because any time you get more than three contributing d n a profiles all of a sudden that is useless for the most part now there are other ways they can be tested but again that is even more expensive that jumps up to around two thousand twenty five hundred dollars per sample but these are very specialized companies that do that and there's only a few in the nation that even do that ok we can step in line with the f b i however the f b i is doing the whole nation cases so again to us that was not an option we did not want to wait eight months to a year to get results from the f b i lab again they do have the technology but there is a long wait there are technologies that are emerging it is it's what's called rapid a and these are a unit that is at the police station for example that can be operated by an evidence specialist for example doesn't have to be a trained criminalist who'd is a d n a expert the samples can actually be run on this and each one of the sample cartridges is like two hundred bucks so not too bad but it gives you a preliminary result this is not a final result because number one the technology is so new it's only been in existence for about two years there's a matter of fact the cases are just now hitting the the court system so we're waiting and we have been researching this before this case happened january second our department has been looking into it but until we see how the two cases one in florida and one in arizona sift through the court and the f b i doesn't even accept it yet ok so again until it's accepted by the general scientific community we can't use it but the great thing about this technology once it is accepted by the courts this will provide d n a results within two hours again two hundred dollars a sample two hours boom look at that investigative tool that our detectives would have and again i want to talk about the fact that this can be used for property crimes because it is known that people who commit crimes at the property level tend to increase in severity they go to assaults they go to murders so yes if we can open it up to where we end up with this technology and it is accepted by our courts been absolutely it was going to be a wonderful thing to hit the forensic science community so you did your part so how does this kim we use the d n a for identification which is sort of like fingerprints and dental records back in the day when we first started when i first started also  hair analysis that was taken from the scene and also taken from the suspect and we've done those types of cases in the past so as this is just one more to generally  evidence that sits there until we get a suspect that we can compare it with then we ask for the d n a analysis so although sex assault cases they have a have a potential of having the d n a analysis and right now with the rapid d n a tool that the mr earles was talking about that when i heard about it it's more because it hasn't passed muster with the  wound but let me tell you it's going to get worse before it gets better as you know or maybe no there is legislation in the state right now being proposed to test every and all sex assault examination kits currently it's up to the discretion of the investigator the detective to make the decision of whether it will be tested and of course in a perfect world we would love to but it takes more d n a analysts it takes more equipment so if this passes which you go again in a perfect world we'd love to test everyone because who knows where connections would be made correct with getting d n a d n a profiles throughout every sex assault examination kit however that means it's going to be an increased a burden on all the labs in specific in hawaii but this is also being proposed in many many jurisdictions many other states you may have seen on the news it's a big push domestic violence  advocates are really trying to get every sex assault kit examined and in make sure that d n a is followed every time but again we got to have the resources to provide the d n a analysis so it's going to get worse there and it's also there's also legislation for having as you know currently i think is about eight years ago hawaii made the legislation where when someone was arrested and they had an existing felony record we could obtain their doctor d n a sample from inside the cheek sample ok well there's legislation now for in front of our state that's going to require for all all arrest ees again look at how many people are arrested enter not necessarily found guilty so can you imagine more more more analysis are going to be so i'm sure matter of fact i know they have two that are in training right now to criminalist for specifically making their work load capacity be able to accommodate in case this stuff does pass the state legislature is getting back to mr okama initial question wasn't quite sure if you had stated i didn't put in my nose that how many cases are generated that require a testing for a year or six months or a month if you have those kind as i doubt right off the top of my head but almost every case where there is physical evidence it could be tested but i will tell you just specifically honolulu p d scientific investigation services their timeline is approximately two to four months for a homicide for a results four to six months for an assault and for property crimes and can be up to two years before you get the results because everything has to be prioritised so all i can say is if there is evidence and it's properly collected at the scene when absolutely almost every case with evidence can be analyzed but we can't inundate the system as it currently is because we would just bog it down even more even further so your answer is you don't know how many cases are require d n a testing correct  will say that d n a just like fingerprints mr kim mention they have very individual characteristics they're indisputable as a matter of fact you're talking about one in a quadrillion personage case where someone will have the exact same d n a profile so usually when there are fingerprints identified in the evidence that comes to the defense attorney and a defense attorney  they don't want to fight you can't fight the fingerprint same thing with d n a so a lot of times we used the in the investigation in the prosecution i can't speak to the way it's handled from the prosecutor but i can only imagine that the more tools they have in their little tool chest when they go to talk to the defense attorney you know it's going to be providing more information for everyone to make a decision on please which is going to open up hopefully case currently collecting those type of d n a evidence or if that's not part of their process right now if there is blood at a crime scene we will collect it if there is hairs we will collect  that but most of the time there are fingerprints most property crimes we submit those as evidence to be analyzed should or if a system but we could also at that time test that cases i just total have that type of evidence that it would require d n a testing michigander most of the cases that we get are complete investigations and if we are look where the maybe two suspects identified with the police are still in a quandary in there is biological evidence and i can think of one in the last three years were on we've actually had two we waited a year and a half for the d someone calls in a stolen vehicle and it just so happens to be the vehicle in a crash after the fact we could probably get touch d n a off the airbag if that was deployed off the steering wheel however because of the nature of the are asked to come in and consult consult with the police department then we'll suggest it but we can't  known maybe one case where there was an alibi and so we had to get the d n a analysis but that hasn't happened we don't order them to do it ok we ask and see if we can be done so on it's  it's not the prosecutor's that's clear because the air kept informed on and probably month to month basis as to the number of cases that's going on in the h p d lab one of the police department also where we would stand in line and do things we basically do stand in line we write a letter to the chief we question the d n a analysis be done they tell us ok what do you got we have to answer that question and then he says ok we'll let you know and when they let us know when we just go forward and try to submit all that evidence to do you have an estimate let's see in the last year how many cases  ere generated with d n a testing that came to the prosecutor's office that were cleared probably three or four three or four with you know ok thank you thank you mr what thank you chair what is a new d n a testing process called there are several companies that are pursuing the this technology there one of them is called rapid a and there's other names for commercial brands but but it's a rapid d n a process that's easy to remember no scientific name there and this has been asked but i don't think i got an answer roughly how many d n a tests are submitted to each p d and how many are sort of pointed to private companies for in an average year if i had to again without the actual statistics i would say least four cases maybe even six cases per year are sent to honolulu for analysis and then i would say at least two cases are sent out to  private laboratories and again those are they have labs that have very expensive testing that h p v does not have and the costs covered by the police department or the prosecutor's office i believe if we request it it's covered by our department if the prosecutors i'm sure i think the prosecuting attorney's office covers their that's correct ok thank you so what you're asking i'm not exactly sure what you're asking whether you're asking for the ability to move forward with acquiring the rapid d n a testing equipment like seems to be doing or mr mr i'll stop here because they're not requesting it was i that brought this forward to see what we could do to help them there's been no request made by the police or the prosecuting attorney's office so i hate anything i'm the one that was requesting the information to see if there's anything we can do physically to help them expedite as had happened in january and that was the whole premise for this ok ok so they day never requested it really came from all that if you could have a facility manned by two technicians they would be great but we all know that the cost millions of dollars for that you know right  eyes looking at this new technology i think we should just go and be a partnership with them and learn from what they have because i believe down the line there will be better technology you know new technology and with their help we'll be chief as actually acknowledges is you know working with us and giving us the goal to submit this evidence to these facilities which costs a few few thousand dollars so even tens of thousands of dollars so basically want to if we could get a full funding for these type of testing what would you say spent in the last year  i know from several one was a vicious sex assault case from key hay and that ended up being almost twenty thousand dollars by the time the samples were all tested the good thing about the d n a is that if the evidence is collected properly and this will hopefully answer your question on how much d n a evidence is present at scenes well if the evidence is actually identified and collected properly and packaged properly then the d n a is always going to be there ok so for example on some of the cold cases that were  actually taking fingerprints that were lifted by the officers in the one nine hundred eighty s this is before the d n a technology even existed but they are ever able to nail actually the private labs can take the tape off of the lift card in obtain a sample of d n a off of that fingerprint i mean again if it's collected properly it is there and so  of those i love the stuff been very involved in prison and prison reform and so for me i can see that it may be premature for us to be thinking about this because at this point it's too small but it looks like it's going to grow and if the laws pass so they will be doing more of it then i think definitively you know this could be a cost issue but i don't think there's any cost i wouldn't want to pay to avoid the travesty the one that you mention about all arrestees be and taken samples from yes is passed i don't think so ok just so i but i you know every year state tries to push stuff through and  so how's this any burien in trying to figure out we to expedite testing because that will open up a lot more than just four to six cases per year you know per year in trying to get test done yes and thank you for the question i know that as i said honolulu p d is already training additional criminalist to make sure that they're going to be able to manage the backlog better at what point our state will be big enough in case loads to actually create a state laboratory that is independent of honolulu police department i don't know when we're going to get there but most states that's the way it is run there is an independent state run organization but because of the way honolulu is situated with the lion's share of the population that's why they were able to serve as our pseudo state laboratory so i know they are already anticipating that eventually this will pass because it does happen that way in a lot of states so like that legislation and it's no secret that i have a record i have had convicted of felonies and so thereby i would be asked to submit samples and in a high profile sec seat or status in this community i mean i have been getting calls from fellow constituents who have records because they know i'm someone who can relate to it and for someone who has changed their lives around but something's going to be collected in perhaps you know add on a database or a library of sorts just in case who knows this person has you know created a crime before maybe if they do again we have them on you know in this whatever library so conspiracy theories also who knows that could be placed somewhere where that person was never around but yet that d n a was found because it was just a place there you know conveniently for someone to find or some source so i've been getting phone calls of this nature so for me i look at it in a different light that legislation and also trying to push through expediting testing of this you know d n a process i see where it's needed and were it does good and it closes cases and rightfully so people are convicted but you know on the flip side too people feel like that's a violation of their privacy it's a civil rights violation and i actually sent legislation sent home i hope opined with the civil rights civil liberties rights and they so you took it from a different perspective but when this came on i thought exactly about that legislation that the state is trying to pass through and we'll see how that goes and what reactions people will get but i stand by my comments and currently i see we don't have a huge huge need for it but again i see the pros and cons of this thank you  game had nothing to do with that situation again the public there was an outcry after the second incident the second murder and so i wanted to put the public good ease that the if there's any methodology that what i will see when ever we can prevent a crime from happening especially in violent crime and i think it's our duty to do whatever fiscally we can to make sure the money's available to the police department or the pub prosecuting attorney's office that's it i wasn't asking for a new facility i wasn't asking for anything other than let's have a good discussion so the public can feel comfortable that we are really paying attention to issues that affect the safety and well being of this community and iran and that's very important in my mind and the moment we fly away from that then we're in trouble i'm going to give everybody one more chance to make a comment because i would like to move on i have we have a number of other items and i think we and i want to thank the prosecuting attorney's office police department and our investigative unit and we sterols again if everybody really looks at him he's a very famous guy you can ask for his autograph at break with you oh ok you know during this whole thing if we were to do i mean it sounds like if the stuff passes at the legislature we're we're moving towards the fact that we may have to do a facility here and when we say facility not big building or anything it's just probably room in one of the stations i'm assuming what is the device cost that we didn't hear what you don't want to do i'm not going to go do it today because that is  discussed at a future if that do bring it forward i will leave this i don't open so that we can bring that forward i would just like to you know if you have any specific questions on the procedure is fine we are not in receipt of information that futur we may have machines we have a partnership with but none of that has come to fruition so i would really like to not delve deeply into that if you don't mind mr couch thank you sir mis fast they can do it or it goes to the you know bottom of the stack or is it just a random type of priority for the h p d and if it is random is there any way we cases we want to explain dates of the already take this are in contact with their technicians and they have always tried to accommodate us you know as always tries to push things up you know at times when we asked what these they really need done but they do have their procedures in place escott yes thank you and again this is from the police department as far as their d n a how it works they came over we had them we hosted them and their scientists to come over and me with our investigators so they would learn more about how the technology is moving and changing but talking about the case prioritization they used what similar to what a nurse in the emergency room use a tree aaj system of course violent crimes are scheduled for the very next opening nonviolent crimes are scheduled when space is available again normally the cases will be processed based on the order in which it is received so there are exceptions as far as the prioritization such as cases of great public concern serial homicide or rapists syria old burglaries and then assessed again on a case by case basis so they have the that they do and i really don't have control but i will say again they have been very helpful when we had this case it was very  in my eyes it was a very quick response to our request i guess what my point is is that you know for services and things like that you can pay a little bit extra for get things done faster if you had a fast track for formality specifically because we're competing our cases are competing with h p d with honolulu cases as well our rate cases are competing with their rate cases our homicide cases are competing with their homicide cases if there was any possible way that we could have a fast track specifically for maui and we could pay to have that that specific fast track that that might be a little bit more efficient i'm not sure and  just to clarify you're saying a fast track with h p d or with a private laboratory with h p d ok and the only reason i question is because it's a public organization there may be some questions about but you couldn't see your opportunity yes thank you very much and this will actually address both ladies their concern also d n a is used to exonerate people who were wrongly convicted ok based on the technology at the time and the courts accepted the technology that existed then in the eighty's and early ninety's you're hearing of the innocence project we even had a case here and now we county dean and i think two thousand and eleven that was exonerated based on this d n a evidence so yes it has pros and cons so it's going to benefit everyone it's going to make things a lot more clear if there is no further discussion i want to first of all thank the three gentlemen mr kim is a silver and mr earles for being here today thank you so very much i think this helps clear in our minds as well as the public's mind the hard work and dedication you have in solving crimes especially violent crimes and you know this this is what this was all about it was not a opportunity or a witch and in that respect i just wanted the public to feel that we and you are serving them in the best capacity possible so i want to thank you very much so if there is no further i would like to defer this matter with no objections thank you you have to let me do this first and then ok i will at this time we would like to take the next two items together because this is regarding the colony of molly's purchasing cards better known as p usage of p cards and pursued purchase orders from the legislative as well as the administrative branches of government today i have missed a great king central purchase agent from the department of finance and russ  t easily me gawa scuse me ross from our office of council services supervisor and here today to provide information regarding the procedures and the use of p cards and purchase orders from the administrator and the legislative branches of government before mr king has the power point presentation so we will get the room prepared for the powerpoint presentation so at this time mr couch i would take our morning break and i would ask everyone to be back no later than ten twenty ok so this meeting now stan mr king would you like to proceed please thank you chair victory no also before you start i forgot to introduce our deputy finance director mark i apologize for not recognizing your i scuse in our case it's master card in addition they have controls on the p card one of the controls is merchant category codes and what the merchant category code is it's when the vendor signs up for a p card he they they sign him up under the goods and the types of goods and services that that vendor provides and so there's a semi broad categories on that and but we control the r p cards with merchant category codes and the other thing is there's no cash you can't take or you can't take the county card to an a t m machine and withdraw cash yet another control is credit limits we have various credit credit limits on our cards the credit limits are based on a two month cycle in the reason for that is the first transaction date would be on the twenty nine per first possible transaction day would be on the twenty ninth of a month say may say may the end of that cycles the twenty eighth of the following month and we have approximately a month after that to get paid so we our credit limits are based on basically two month cycle there's also you can also set controls for amounts protraction transactions per day transactions per month the county amount he we currently have about three hundred seventy cards our annual total expenditures last year was about four point six million transactions approximately seventeen thousand we have had originally we started out with well originally the peak card program started out it was something that was happening with the federal agencies started it first and then it became active at the at the state of hawaii and county about the time that aloha airlines and hawaiian airlines stopped issuing coupons and we needed a way to be able to pay for airfare so when we first started we started with what we call what i called office cards each each basically division or section had were issued cards under the name of that office subsequently first one bank is required cards to be in an individual's name so we had to discontinue the office cards per se and then  all the cards have individuals name on them with their picture and then we also after that started we also started what i called individual cards which are cards for guys out in the field that need to buy small parts and repairs and supplies such as that and then we have some other types of cards such as i t department has a card that they can go buy from lots of different computer electronics type of places so any computer related stuff we refer those expenditures through to the i t department and they another department may use that card we also have a few cards we don't  have we have a couple of the directors have cards in their names the fired apart by or chief and the civil defense director we also have for your information five cards which could be used  to purchase meals those are there's two in the fire department and there's a couple in liquor control and then civil defense has one benefits to the card holder  there's a lot of benefits for the peak card program you've only heard about the negatives and we'll get into those later there's a lot less the p cards you don't have to do a purchase order there's no delay there's a lot less paperwork  they they've done a lot of studies in the study suggests that the savings trant per transaction savings as compared to a purchase order is at a at a minimum fifty dollars and i've seen  estimates up to one hundred ten dollars per transaction there's delegated procurement it is a delegated purchasing authority so when we give someone a p card we're delegating that we're delegating the down to that level and of course there's more purchase options there's lots of vendors who do not accept purchase orders if you look at the data that i don't know some of the some of the data got circulated to some of the media agencies you'll see there's a couple transactions on there for example for young brothers doesn't accept anything but p cards and so we've had a couple of transactions that and there is an exception letter on that through the state we've had a couple a couple of  transactions it run like seven thousand eight thousand dollars for shipping trucks and trailers from here to mold kyra back benefits of the government i mentioned lower transaction cos typical purchase orders you have a requisition you take the requisite somebody feels that somebody has a need to they fill out a requisition the requisition goes to their boss for signature they get quotes and then it comes to purchasing and we look it over and approve it process it after the purchase orders process copies go back to the department the department when they receive the material they send a receiving report to accounts payable accounts payable takes the receiving report they combine it with the invoice sometimes the invoices go to the department sometimes it goes straight to accounts payable a match it up and then they pay it so that's why the purchase orders cost can cost the estimates are one hundred  the hundred dollar range for every purchase order another benefit of the government is rebate from first to wind bank quarterly we get about i think it's fifteen sixteen thousand seventeen thousand dollars check which goes into the general fund one of the benefits that the government is and it's also a liability is we cut one check to first to wind bank every month so what happens is  we call all three hundred seventy cards or however many are used that month all that data comes in in the form of transaction logs in the statements and then we have a limited amount of time to get those get those payments recorded on or counting system and we would basically dump the data in our accounting system and we don't have any budget for any late payments and we've been doing this for ten years and we that's a that's a big focus during one part of the month is to make sure we get that card payment in control as they start to talk about some of the controls merchant category codes office so so there's what i call the office cards they can be used to purchase travel and then office related expenses the industrial cards or what i call the individual cards previously those can be used for purchasing you can go to  or whatever and there are more industrial related cards those can't be used to purchase travel so that's how we control a lot of the stuff is through merchant category codes there are some always issues with that one of the one of the issues is is sometimes emerging category code isn't correct and an early example of that is we had when we were wanted to buy coupons for the lanai ferry there when they were ever owns the line i ferry company when they started out with their  master card they signed up is or they were signed up is like a consulting something or other so we have we had to put that merchant category code on our card to accommodate people being able to buy coupons on ferry explain a little bit about fire has a couple cards for meals i t has a separate card so forth procedures we have procedures there on our internet they need to be updated a little bit but essentially the fundamentally fundamentally the same we have a card holder agreement that we require all the card holders to sign and if you don't have copies of that i can i probably should have put that in a presentation i can get that to a basically a one of the i guess the main thing it says and there's you can't there it's not to be used for any personal use so that's in our procedures we have a five hundred dollar transaction limit with lots of exceptions including travel he can't buy a plane fare to the mainland for less than five hundred most the time and we have for if we have an exit status price lists then the p card just becomes a payment mechanism and they can use the p card for any amounts if there's an established priceless and i mention the young brothers exception just for comparison purposes city and county honolulu state their transaction limit is twenty five hundred dollars so  i may be at the on the conservative side there center center suite software is what that is is it's a independent third party software system online bank contracts with and that's where all the data comes from all the data gets put in there within a couple of days usually after the transaction unless it's a small and sophisticated vendor that may wait you know week to to put their data in but for the most part the the data is in there in a couple of days and any supervisors can see that and we use that software we've modified that software to where the departments enter their index and sub object  code on to that software and then we can take that data and dump it into our accounts payable program and create a batches for payment a batch for payment one of the main controls is a monthly transaction log one of the problems with the credit card program is one of the problems with the credit card transactions is the credit card records where you went to records how much you spent what vendor how much you spent date but it doesn't tell you except in some situations it doesn't tell you what they bought so it's create it's creates this extra paper process where we require this transaction log and then what i require through the procedures is that the person who's buying something produce either a receipt invoice packing list something that shows the description of what they're buying and so unfortunately part of this the p r program does save a lot of money and transaction cost but it  the data on there is available you can dump the data from there for the last thirteen months easily into excel and sort you can sort on vendors you can sort on amounts you can sort and look for look for look for  things so we get that we get like i told you we had pretty tight time frame for consolidation and review and accounts we try to give accounts at least a week and a half or so and then they try to get the payment in quickly also but we do we we we initially train everybody when we give them the p card we've also done follow up training in various departments is they need or is is is is needed i also  year to departments not only on p cards but on purchase orders and also on purchasing ethics oh the other thing is our first one bank covers external fraud so they any anything we've had we've had our i t card compromise i think three times where somebody is ordering netflix in london or something weird some weird things yeah no russians or maybe it was  disadvantage a respect for abuse there is there is that issue that that that can happen you have to weigh the you know it's a becomes a cost benefit calculation public perception we don't need to go there can understand the public perception problems at the moment limitations of merging category codes i describe some of that you know it's not perfect  in order to allow somebody to go to well cost is not a good example as they don't take it but say walmart or some someplace like that they also sell beer at wal mart so that's something that we have to keep an eye on and have it count on this fiscal year was may twenty eighth because by the time it gets paid by the time the bill comes and gets paid its past july first in terms of risk to the p card  versus purchase order risk as i explained the center suite software has about three days supervisors can potentially see all the transactions within about three days both methods have two signatures minimum standard so that means a supervisor has to be approving what their employees are purchasing and they sign the transaction logs then we can we can look at it like a so we can audit it to some extent we can't see everything they're doing what we can what we can see on paper we can look at confirming purchase orders and credit cards you know that we have a lot we have that kind of issue where when there is financial commitment after all approvals anyway so there's a confirming purchase order issue that happens and my the way i train people at the in my training sessions as i say if you're going to do a confirming purchase order and you're making a good business decision probably nothing is going to happen if you make a confirming purchase order and we don't like what you're doing the liability is on you so i try to try to make we try to minimize that as as much as we can see so why it's worth it the estimated transaction this is very conservative estimate a transaction cost savings account per year with a p card is about eight hundred fifty thousand it's based on a conservative estimate of fifty dollars savings time seventeen thousand transaction now the second thing the twenty thousand that's what i know about and i'm not privy to to everything i know of i know of a couple people have gotten fired for p r problems independent this is independent of anything that's going on now which i know very little about him so that's it compare the savings to the fraud so you have to look at the again at the cost  benefits i put a couple benchmarking things in here this comes from the national institute of government procurement survey there's a lot of there's a lot of information in your the first i'm going to skip over the second slide first and go back to the first of the first sli is small cities and counties large cities and counties and the county i'm out and this was done the survey was done in two thousand and nine there's nothing that's been updated since then in the second slide as best practice needs improvement so go back to the first slide for a second so you can kind of see we're we're are the size of our organization in the twenty five hundred i just put that down i have no i know it's somewhere plus or minus one hundred number of employees number of cards  so you can see we have twenty five hundred employees the average and these are averages the average large cities thirty seven hundred they have four hundred twelve cards we have three hundred seventy purchasing card to employee ratio it's ten percent for a large organizations ten percent or fourteen small it's thirty one percent and this is per ploy not employee that has a card average monthly spending transactions under twenty five hundred dollars placed on the p card one thing that really stands out is transactions between twenty five hundred ten thousand on the p card we do very very little of that i don't know if we should be doing more i know a lot of agencies put requirements for p cards because of the cost savings vendor has to accept a p card i have not done that yet it's something that it's you know it's something that you have to kind of look at it and see if it if it makes sense i know for example if we required our fuel vendors to put to to pay all our fuel bills for our gas gas and diesel on a peak car they would they would just increase they would just you know increase the cost  of the the bid the bid would increase monthly peak car spending per employee again this is all employees not employees that have p cards i can see were at their cardholder transactions per month spending programs action and so forth we go back to this questions and then the next slide is best in practice best practice group needs improvement group you know that one of these employees is fourteen ninety eight for example the number of cards is three fifty one or a little bit higher number employees and slightly higher in number of cards best practice group purchasing card to employee ratio twenty three percent were fourteen percent average monthly picart spending five twenty eight three eighty five and so forth you can see again there's a lot of quite a bit of information in here we come back to this one  cannot get into small purchases so i've tried to make the small purchase procedures easy for employees and so when i present or whatever and the situation i refer back to this memo and basically what this memo is is the threshold for small purchases our requirements are under a thousand dollars no quotes are required the recommended if time permits if it's easy but it's not mandatory one thousand to four thousand dollars or one thousand five thousand dollars a minimum of three verbal quotes are required five to twenty five minimum of three written quote it's a required twenty five plus as we go out to competitive sealed bid process on construction because of the nature of construction up to five thousand multiple quotes are not required five thousand to twenty five thousand three quotes are required twenty five we've got to bid and the law doesn't say that you need to call as many as you need to get three quotes and so i suppose if subjectively enforce that the law says you need to call three people in certain situations i know there's not that many people that can quote there's lots of situations where we don't have that i won't ask anymore in certain situations where there's a lot you know there's a lot of vendors out there i'll send it back and make them go get three quotes there's also a record of procurement form that's we  it's required for purchases over a thousand dollars and basically it's structured to document the quotes it also you can document best value if you if you don't want to go with the low bid and you have a valid reason will allow that  and then it also if you can't get three quotes we look at that and then there's all kinds of exceptions which i'll go into you know one of the things about living on a and or being in a county with three islands is and is there's a lot of places there's limited sources there's limited sources and hano there's limited sources of molik are there's limited sources and when i and so a lot of times you can't get three quotes there's only one electrician in qana for example  and you can get i guess you could get a quote from somebody to come out here if it's a large enough job there's a lot of reasons why we can't get quotes for technical reasons if it's an o e m original equipment manufacturer spare part for example they may not be able to get more than one could we have what we call there's a statutory sole source which is a sole source by statute and this is one of the cock one of the common ones we use sorry one of the common ones we use is software license renewal if we have a big software platform like ifas or kiva or maps or whatever we do we allow them without to utilize the same one we don't have to make them go out to bid every year for maintenance renewal or even even upgrades modifications same thing with the original qui manufacturer repairs to maintain warranties yeah yeah and these are this is a charice statutes and then these are h r s exemptions there's several there's more than this but this is some of the common ones that we use  you have a vehicle that's broken and you decide and you don't you it's really difficult to go get three quotes for example for you know whatever because they have if they have to tear the car apart to tell you what it's going to cost to fix  it that's a situation where we don't require multiple quotes but i do require or encourage and most departments comply with getting labor hour rates at least so we can least have some documentation that hey this guy's eighty dollars an hour and this guy's ninety dollars an hour court reporter services is another exemption conference registration fees is another exemption for obvious reasons if you want to go to the conference and  can't get multiple bids targeted marketing is another common exemption you know if we have either by statute or for whatever reasons you want to promote something so you want to promote  something on a fairer something on molokai through some grant thing we allow that that's allowed for news there's also a price list for maui news and for all the all the newspaper agencies in the state the other common exemption it's got soft skills training that's like soft skills like motivational kind of training versus hard skills it be like teach me teach me excel excel or something so  generally hard skills training we try to bid out soft skills training isn't it is exempt cooperative purchasing we have cooperated purchasing with whiskey which stands for western states contracting alliance says we have to do a lot of cooperate purchasing with city and county especially like d m v stuff you must be named in the original solicitation to participate in that and we have we put out our own price list for various things fuel tires office supplies nutritional supplies and so forth in the small purchaser arena under twenty five thousand dollars you do not have to go with the lowest bid you can go with the best value but you have to has to be has to be justified compliance laws requirements for expenditures over twenty five hundred dollars this is some that happened within the last i think three years or so it used to be a twenty five thousand and now for each transaction over twenty five hundred dollars we have to get compliance documents and it kind of funnel all of these requirements in through this website called hawaii compliance express and international companies can take some time to get set up on them that's it thank you mark do you have anything you'd like to add before i open the floor fo policies and procedures we are there we are bit we have been notified i have been notified by the auditors office that they are presently in the in the process of having audience for various departments for weeks challenges have been brought forth to the public and our knowledge so i will try to stay away from that as much as possible really today is to gain information in how these procedures and policies are set and if there is a opportunity that maybe some legislation may be necessary for changes and or review all of the system itself so i was thought i would argue in the vice chair of the committee mr koch thank you mr chair and thanks for the great presentation question i have real quickly is you talked about cooperate or purchasing and i know you brought this up before and i'm just wondering  a state procurement administrator doesn't want me to use that but because because they want us to use wisco but i need to actually i need to actually i'm behind i need to do some research on that to find out had stated to me recently that i guess we're doing the budget process that that we are or the county of mary is named in the named in the solicitation and i'm not sure if it's county maui or just all counties or whatever the interpretation of state procurement office is that all counties wouldn't be sufficient  but if you guys decide is a body that's their interpretation of the law if it says all counties can participate and you guys get somebody gives me the green light i don't think it should be my decision to go ahead and use that i would have no trouble here somewhere we start with a small small purchase long work my way from there  it's it's fairly broad the small purchase law says it says no less than three quotes should be solicited for expenditures of five thousand to less than fifteen thousand and then also says expenditures with an estimated total costs that are less than five thousand shall be by procedures established by each chief procurement officer so we have some lad it's fairly broad and we have some latitude in there but that's what the this is actually something that is in compliance there's no specific list of things that are approved for purchase or not and so it becomes a common sense thing you know to try to figure out if if this is something that the county should be purchasing or not or if it makes sense for that so do you that mortgage is the dollar amount or do you look at the actual i don't know we look at the items to see what they're buying obviously if you know if they're buying a case of beer from wal mart you know we're going to look at you know we're going to say no we're going to deny that requisition so we do look at the items for that chair ma already started a review and made certain adjustments in your procedures regarding either the p cards or purchase orders since we obviously have some issues we need to on yeah one of the things is you know again i can't see sitting behind a desk i can't see everything that they're doing out there we rely heavily on on that initial supervisor so approval because that's the that's that's what we really rely on the supervisors is our eyes and ears in the field of what their guys are purchasing and we can look and see at the description of the see what they're buying you know we can see what we can see on tell us the after effect procedure please mr king ok so after the fact when the cards during the month if the supervisor wants to see what his employees are buying he can get on center suite and look and see what they bought within again i said it's like a three days lag time two to three days lag time before he can see what they purchased at the end of the month yes to sign the transaction log that it with all the corresponding receipts and so forth and to approve that those purchases and they will be temporary so if anyone else reviews insane zef within the department before you gets to you mr king yeah it depends on the it depends on the department apart each department has their own they delegate they delegate however they see fit but in some cases the departments in fact a lot of cases department heads sign off on it but you know that that the higher you go up the command the value of the review is probably less because there are farther away from the day to day activities that's a software allow you the the i mean yes you can you can dollars were of the same stuff from the same vendor every week yes you could you could see that it it's hard it's not that easy to find it because you have however many seventeen thousand divided our army transactions per divided by twelve so two thousand transactions a month  for payment process that occurs outside of the purchasing division it's it goes through the accounts there's a form for small purchases or basically the same procedure i'm not sure what their procedures are for those i know it's for minor minor reimbursements vary and sometimes they'll pay for conference registration fees or low pay for subscriptions or things like   vendors can anyone in the personnel in that department go to that vendor and charge on that account no we don't we don't having those kind of relationships we have a lot of credit relationships with vendors for the acceptance of her disorders for example home depot just called me half an hour ago or something so they have to have a purchase order they're supposed to have a purchase order to you for i'm assuming that's available to all partner managers to everybody everybody is involved with the p card program clerical on up ok and other than your reviews what reviews are required to be done by the department manager of the media the supervisor of whoever is utilizing the p card they have to sign they have to sign the transaction log each month approving those purchases when they sign that they're there saying that i can approve all of these purchases ok the transaction log comes from center suite no it's a manual piece of paper that that they fill in and attached to it is that there's a transaction log which has a list of the transactions it has receipts that are attached where required by the way we do not require travel receipts through the p card process we do it separately through the travel order process but  in but any rate because the travel or the travel the theory is under the travel process as you have people are making airline reservations because they're going to this meeting and the basis is that meeting in the signature of the department each department head prior to your making the payment which you say has got to be made pretty quickly yet so they're there they're responsible for that and again not all the picart go to department head sometimes it's just a division head it depends on how they have that segregated and they are supposed to there's again they're signing off that all these transactions are valid and to what level of those given a second  somebody or somebody else in your office or in the finest department yes so we look at it we look at it again we can dump the data and xcel and one of my staff looks at it for problems or basically i think most of what he's looking at  transactions that are over five hundred dollars against her own in violation of the policy and if we have that happen then we we have we gets it depends on the situation we get using the use he will give them a second chance or a third  chance require documentation if they if they exceed five hundred dollars every once in a blue moon will get something where they'll have their p card in the pull out that they'll pull out the p card and use it for a personal thing and then and then but as long as they but that's but you didn't mention transaction log doesn't identify what they bought it so it's no no it did you know the transaction log exists to show what they bought the the data on center suite doesn't show what they bought except for yeah i'm sorry i wasn't clear on that except for travel it's just so happens that like airline reservations there's travel you see they have the passenger name on there it's just something that the v records but in when you're buying ten widgets it doesn't it doesn't show that so are there receipts attached to the transaction log yes so either receipt or what what i require is either a seed or a packing list or something that shows what was what was purchased a description of the items item or items s as mr powell pointed out you have to have mostly trustworthy and great employees doing this kind of thing and is up to the person yeah councilman carroll is my only comment was is that when you use your own car and oh by the way and i have mike white as a cheaper term an officer for the legislative side so i don't the potential of people making bad decisions if they're using their own p card so they can get their united miles or whatever whatever stuff so i feel more comfortable having our airfare paid with with the p card i found out just as part of this process recently city and county requires and of course the other thing you need to think about is the county of maori travels more than any other county city and county doesn't travel that much because everybody comes to them for meetings and we have three islands and so we're the only ones that situation so we have a probably a lot more travel than anybody else sitting in county does not they do they do not pay for any any travel on their p card at all it's all right it's all reimbursed you know after obviously approval so people use their own cards their thank you for their verification and i want to meet one note that they use for us and for myself i should say the only time i've used my p card is because enterprise rent a car when we use them they will not accept anything but our picart we use and the price which i have done a number of times because they have no special reach no gas mileage you have to fill up bring much chair and thank you mr king for the presentation it makes things a lot clearer it's very interesting but even even having served as chair of this body for two years i never saw the card i knew they existed but i never saw one i think it's important for the public to know that all of us are running the wrong way to pick could have been a field day you know it's funny nowadays when we go to meetings and dinners people joke and they say oh well get a bill to buy says she has a pic card and i say sorry i have a credit card just like you do that i have to pay every month so i think that's important but what i didn't hear in this explanation and i think it's important if you could give a brief comment about entertainment and meals and how that's handled ok yes council member bye bye so there's five there's five p cards in the county that can be used for meals there's no policy that allows any kind of entertainment the mayor doesn't have a card again and there's only two two department heads that have cards chief murray and  civil defense director and fast there's five cards that could potentially be used to purchase meals or drinks and those are two of them or two of them are in liquor control i guess the inspectors needed they insisted for late hour stuff or whatever i don't think i've never seen any transact i've never actually seen any meal transactions on those so and then two in the fire department when they have brush fires in the middle of the night they need to go b sandwiches one time we had a card transaction that was it i think was it a liquor store or something whatever which caused the alarms and it turns out they just bought sandwiches and then civil defense has one for emergencies they they complain last time they had a problem the other one of the emergency storms or whatever they complain because they couldn't go to mcdonald's so we strain that and i told him of have a big hurricane mcdonald's is going to be open control and that's always been something that they requested i could do some more research and get back to you on that it's been a few years and i could do some more research and get back on to how that happened but somebody insisted and somebody allowed it bugged me just interesting i mean because i know inspectors do go out at night but it's a regular shift where you probably can eat your meal before or after kind of thing but getting back to your presentation thank you very much and the the page in regard disadvantages and risks the last bullet point physical you're in control is that like of the year in print cycle it's the twenty ninth to the twenty eighth of the month so in may and twenty ninth of april to the twenty eight the may all of those charges will get paid under the current fiscal year and so people who are trying to  using the p card as they go in june they have to really watch or they have to watch it for next year's budget or in if they're using it in may they have to watch out for this year's budget or some departments just cut off the peak card use if they're if their budgets real tight at the end of the year so it's just something that you can't the the control is you're you have these expenditures out there but you don't have the main it may or may not have the money to pay for it in one of the two fiscal years so that's that's the that's the why i say that's a disadvantage is it something that has to be controlled has to be monitored by the departments otherwise you could get in trouble with their their budget for i mean they say they don't or fuels are all done on purchase orders because there's no transaction cost to the vendor same thing with tires actually i take that back some tires if they're under five hundred dollars they can go by they can go buy tires and  are six months or year depending on things we have already have a price established and once we have a price established by a competitive process then it that at that point the p car just becomes a payment mechanism and so it's not it's not really an issue whether they use it or not for even if it's over five hundred dollars ok and last question sure in regards to why it's worth that slide the second bullet and i guess you know i mean there's some sensitive things happening currently but not focusing on that cost of known fraud tomorrow he county since program programs inception when was when was the inception of this program it's been about been about ten years ten years and kin you using it for personal use that i'm aware of and then they were fired and so what i guess what i learn from it is that is that not everybody has perfect ethics in the county give penalties and discipline people who do it been doing this for twenty something years and whether it's purchase orders or cards parceling something that's just hasn't it's just it's not taken seriously so if it's something that you as a body think needs to be taken seriously we can certainly do that well we i think council has made various comments about the concern it has know we look for your recommendations if you have any on how we you know get some integrity back and you know part of the public perception is trusts you know we look to you to give us as a professional some and that way we can ensure this from never happening in a nice hopefully eliminating the opportunity for happening again like you said earlier i think a number of other council members mention we have a lot of on this employees they do the right thing every day and this is an opportunity where we save money and we get things done expediently so i have no qualms with that but it's always the few it's like everything else always a little few that change the whole system and make us make us look at it in a more compliant matter so i'm i'm fine with what i've seen so far i want to thank you mr king for being here you know from the administrative site and i think the you know just a lot of questions we had and one set audit is completed council serves as supervisor of as of council services thank you have an opening statement and then you don't have a presentation you just think you know we don't have a presen have you had any questions as mr king mentioned the legislative branch as independent separate fiscal operations from the executive branch so we have our own way of doing things although we are of course subject to some of the same laws card policies we have what may be considered very restrictive policies the p card is only use for airfare and for rental cars and there's a total of eleven p cards that o c s manages one is for administrative support section one is for our secretarial section and then for each of the nine council member offices there's a single p card that's issued in the name of an executive assistant us for in that office that the council member designates so that's a basic overview on the policy i'd be happy to answer any details about the policy and then ross's section administers the card and other fiscal policies on a daily basis so there's any questions about those details ross can answer ross do you have an opening statement would you like to see anything or you just card in my office so you know we don't have anywhere near the latitude i don't think there's ever been the latitude missed by says that been very tight for the entire time that you all a bit an office so i similarly commend the current staff and prior staffs of the council for setting up a system the very restrictive and very well control eight and a half years of which they have been in charge the last four and a half years and they do a very thorough job because i get the call if there's not something isn't exactly right but i never heard from the chair i didn't hear from the staff first on their call and so mr carroll and if you know why so you know just meant it was been said because they're very tightly controlled in our in the state department and i think it's outstanding staff does a great job and you know it's very the piece did for until lately and it's you know we have i think some of the best controls on it and we use it for what it's lated to be used for that so that it's pretty straight simple and expenditures under one thousand dollars a minimum of three quotes are required for expenditures of above one thousand dollars from one thousand dollars to four thousand nine hundred ninety nine dollars although the council chair may waive this requirement on a case by case basis there's a minimum of three written quotes required for expenditures of five thousand to twenty four thousand nine hundred ninety nine so there's kind of a ratcheting up as we move the pay scale the costs cayle there's more formality and more requirements expenditures of twenty five thousand dollars require a formal competitive process and that includes a public notice in a formal contract with assistance from department finance corporation again in the legislative branch as an independent entity can create its own purchase orders so we do create our own purchase orders rather than executive agencies have to go through the department of finance for that th i think no questions for i thank you can't thank you thank you gentleman and at this time i would like to call on the administrators side mr king and mark if you guys would come back up again thank you for your patience i know the presentation was a combined presentation mr king so i know you don't have another presentation any opening statements will you just like getting to getting into the question and answer i have no opening statement ok mr couch built through parceling of purchase orders and had no no see ip authorization from the council it's those same two departments that are now under scrutiny for  irregularities so i think it's it is important for us to take a good look at whether there are things that we need to put in place from a policy standpoint to to simply make sure these things don't happen again because one of the things that concerns me is that we've had two buildings built through parceling with no authorization and yet i don't believe anyone in either of those cases was terminated or suspended and i may be completely wrong with those happened a while a while ago but too many times in government things happen and there's no consequences and i think we need to make sure as a as policy makers that people understand that while the vast majority of county employees are very honest and trustworthy  doing a great job if you step out of line there are going to be severe consequences because i can tell you and in the private sector things that happen in government are dealt with much more rapidly and with much more severe consequences so i'd like to see us take a look i like to see us get whatever guidance the administration can provide us with respect to establishing policies that but the requirement for a compliance with state of state issues not with the fact that we need to and what i'm referring to is the requirement that any company that we deal with is for the solid waste of vision and it's a real pain because most of the guys are can do the job or from the mainland they're having some challenges not with the tax side that they've gotten clear with that but the deal i are think is the place where they're i mean again tied up so if you want to address some of those issues the problem that i have is the state is requiring this and i'm not i'm not against the compliance issue but at the same time it's taking weeks and weeks and weeks we've been told that it's likely to be another four to six weeks to get clearance from  they they don't have any employees in the state and they may have had people working here previously but i don't i'm not sure what work what the state is helping us to accomplish by slowing everything down to a crawl we can't get the job done because of state law doesn't allow us to move ahead without this compliance and yet they're not facilitating compliance so whatever you can you know one of the if you have me the king shit on  that yeah it wouldn't this is where i'm coming asking you guys for something maybe one of the things is you know there's obviously a lot of concerns over budget and how budgets spend and so forth one of the possible solutions would be  you because we have the same same problems and more of more of them is one of the solutions is possibly you uncover the money and you hold the purchase order and you don't release the purchase order until the compliance is done so i don't know if that's legal i don't know how you guys look at that but that that is a possible solution if you guys are ok with that then that would solve some was speaking about as in you know things that have happened in the past and in relation to if certain those certain things occurred in private sector there would be a lot heavier you know repercussions and  d like to see us step up somehow and if that's with the administration working in conjunction with us the policymakers to set forth better you know stiffer stronger controls what have you to address  things from occurring in the future and being prevented of here and humans are humans and people are going to be people but if there's certain little extra you know i guess protections on all levels then that would be i'd like to see some work being done in that in that way and mr okama bringing up that public perception is very very important right this day and age and you know having  that feeling of being trustworthy of us all is so so important and i think that's what this community is looking for and that's what this community needs right now and i think that's why this whole subject is brought to the table for us to open up and discuss and sort of clear the air on certain ways but also bring in the point that nothing's perfect we're not perfect and people aren't perfect but we can hopefully make sure that the controls are in place to try to address that because what i find disturbing is i did speak to someone who resigned from our county and this particular person was looking into things and asking some questions perching it real good questions because the things are questionable and they were not they were getting doors slammed in their face so they decided well it's like i don't want i'm not welcomed around here and everywhere i turn not getting any help so she left and so that gives me very very a lot of reason of concern so that's something that i think i'll be looking into and trying to figure out where you can be  because if i'm sitting here feeling uncomfortable about how our taxpayer dollars are being spent and the people we give responsibility in utilizing these p cards then the side of feeling because we're in charge of that as a body that's our early on so again cherry thank you for bringing this subject matter up i think there's a lot more discussion to be had here and thank you for this time thank within the administration and the various departments so i think the bottom line in my mind is we need tightening and i think another thing is we should have very view all the system works i think that's another thing that seems to happen in the  colonies until something really goes bad or really goes wrong and then we jump on it we reactive been proactive and i think that's what's needed right now is being proactive in having a every three year five year review just to make sure it's working and if th changes that need to be made they can be made at that point so that's something else i'll be looking into as far as how we can add that if corporation called saw allows us to add something of that nature so that we can have periodic reviews and not wait for an audit and not wait for things to get bad out with no further discussion i would like to recommend deferral of b forty one forty one object inch think you are a gentlemen thank you very much appreciate it we have one help benefits trust fund for a confidentially confidentiality agreement to continue to receive monthly reports the committee is in receipt of correspondence dated january sixteenth two thousand and fifteen from the director of finance to enter into an intergovernmental agreement with the whole wide employer union health benefits trust fund state of hawaii for confidentiality agreement to continue to receive monthly reports containing information number of questions and concerns the bill was revised to incorporate these revisions to the confidentiality agreement attached as exhibit one in your binder it appears that the questions have been answered and the revisions have been incorporated in to this into the bill also in front of you you have a list of the op ed monthly costs details report columns headings as mentioned  please thank you mr chair and thank you council members could you go a little closer to the microphone very soft voice ok how's that as an introduction i guess a little bit of history on this one twenty twelve the county was receiving these monthly reports from that you of those employees that were being process for the medical coverage is then about the middle of of two thousand and twelve the state stopped because of the confidentiality ality requirements of hipaa and at that point they were asking us to commit to these our confidentiality rethink our requirements from the federal government so we were working toward third agreement and about six months later when thirteen started they had drafted out in em or you for this confidentiality agreement and because there is a charge on this kind of work it came to this committee the first draft was reviewed by the committee and they had a lot of good questions to sponsors all came back in october and from the questions the original draft of the agreement was amended and i think  it reflects those concerns from the committee so that was good that a g signed off the department head for the state agency also signed off and that thank you i don't believe we requested our county terminations because my understanding would be if we no longer want to do this we'll just stop requesting the confidential information and that would so if you're not here we'll who your replacement give me to see amounts to i would hope saw this is just a confidentiality agreement so we're only bound by it if we're requesting the information we have a duty to keep confidential so you would be be provide us information and we have a duty to maintain its confidentiality saw that's where it would be a breach on our part if well a legit breach on our part if he were to come up that way that would be my my comment thank you chairman thank you that had been provided in the past of the details are not provided because of course and those would be confidential because it has the employees i d s and descriptions that were not allowed to share but from our reviewing those column headings those reflect the information that we need in payroll processing  and making sure that both sides stayed in the county is reflecting the same information and it's being not reconciled properly the auditors are concerned about it because it provides this kind of allocation of costs to various departments including the water department and they have to have their own share of these insurance premiums of course so is this personal information that we're matching up with payroll disses a brand new agreement that reflects the confidentially requirements of ok which came into effect november two thousand and nine or fifty were in zero nine and it's twenty fifteen a long time ago that's correct and the last paragraph of this  communication says there is no due date for this agreement that's correct because we don't receive any reports until we get this agreement established and it also says that it will help to verify accuracy of monthly payments to you t f so right as of today we haven't had a way to verify our accuracy that's correct state records the compensating control would be that the employees would see my paycheck i've asked to have a family plan and it only has a single coverage and then  benefit then they may not see anything for a while but he usually that kind of thing gets caught up eventually and he's aging are ordered to say they just gave you another verbal that this is something we might want to follow up on was it did they give you a form of communication which is not of formal during the process of the audit would and confirmations this particular area affects the allocation of costs between departments so it is a concern but in what we've agreed upon for last year anyway was that the mix of employees the kinds of the coverage is not that far off there are a lot of compensating controls so it's ok for now but as the county continues to grow the policies start to diversify we cannot rely on those kinds of allocations that were developed in twelve so that's why we need to step up and do a little more work and get this kind of basic data okee by this point amy don't think it has any financial impact on the in this county do you like we need to pay more there could be but i wouldn't expect it to be large because this kind of compensating control where employees see their checks and what's being deducted the know that if they go to kaiser and there's son says i don't have coverage anymore they will see something and the matter would be resolved and that w further discuss that it would like to entertain a motion recommending the passes and first reading of the revised proposed bill in thought of a bill for an ordinance authorizing the mayor of the county of maui to enter into it into government agreement with the hawaii employer union bill and titled a bill for authorizing the mayor of the county of maui to enter into an intergovernmental agreement with the state of hawaii the hawaii employer union health benefits trust fund state of hawaii and filing of county communication fourteen dash one sixty three doing in there seen on all those are favoring the five by saying i let the record show eight eyes and one excuse me spicer that's the end of the agenda ladies and gentlemen thank you very much you i think a very insightful meeting today i really believe we were able to ascertain a lot of information and i think the public has a lot clearer now on some of these controversial issues and it is my hope that we will work on some policies and make some changes in the very near future and i look forward to the audit by the department by the office of the auditor and those two departments mr mr i hold that will help us also realize the but the challenges and the methodology to fix these challenges yeah so with no further ado i will call this meeting adjourned for june sixteenth