probate i don't know that the problem is there is no outcome yet part of what you're complaining about in your brief use the nature of the relief given but since i can't find any relief  and it's something of a surprise because the plaintiffs might actually want a judgment if they want quiet time they might want the judgment in their favor which they don't  the declaratory judgment issue off to one side it seems pretty clear the judges primary concern about this is under no way could the judge find whether as a matter of statute of limitations or whether it's a matter of latches or any other theory you might want to say and all of the things that concern us about claims seem to exist here all sorts of people have died we have so there was a time whether it was when the thing got taken from the hangar in new york you know there's a time so when was this conversion i think that would be the question of the conversion when was the old with dates so two thousand and two i'll just pick randomly he learns mr very tiny and learns that martin stole the plane to greenville he hires a lawyer in two thousand and four to draft a complaint the lawyer unfortunately passes away but that tells you that he's well aware that there is something amiss here and that he might want to pursue legal action the complaint by the way which includes similar claims says the complaint here well i think that that's those are disputed flex your honor just to make clear in the record is a help in that the pew did that what your client specifically has done and not let me take probably the most obvious of what your client that your client in two thousand and nine sent a letter to pat fitzgerald who was the u s attorney at the time asking for criminal action because the plane had been stolen from him are taken from against the plaintiff here and it's essentially the same claims that he has counterclaim to with here again whether or not he directed that complaint to be prepared he's admitted it and he produced that document and he's admitted had it back at the time how could that not put him one notice that he might have a lawsuit against the plaintiffs here for the for the plane that's at issue here i believe that the question is not whether or not  y taken from him and he has a face sheet or the cover sheet of a complaint that he is bringing against the person who allegedly wrongfully took this plane for the same causes of action pertaining to the wrongful taking of the plane how was he not on notice because of notice doesn't mean certainty we've said that before you don't have to have all of the elements of the case right in front of you and the inquiry notice of course just start the running of the statute of limitations the other two years are supposedly available to you so that you can develop a greater level of certainty and then if you think you have enough to survive rule eleven and file a case need to look at the response from the u s attorney's office and lee says i recommend you hire a private lawyer or a private investigator your own well private investigator which the question of what mr vice honey i knew or should whether or not she had limitations begins to run when you know you've been injured and buying you don't have to know enough to win your whole treats the statute of limitations  recuperation after you having and everything you are ever going to use to prove your claim that's not how any state it's not how the federal government treats it it's the period for investigation after you know what the injury and what my colleagues are asking is how can your tanian deny that he knew of his injury way back in nineteen eighty five and lots of other time since now it may be that under bankers trust against malice a completely your judgment is normal last appeal because it does she just that the district judge has done but your client still has no relief if w mr of are tiny and has no claim to this aircraft simple i mean it's a sentiment very simple right and one can deduce from the district court's opinion that that's where he was going  never actually reduces this now sometimes this court issues a limited re man to the district court so that it can finish the case and then maybe the same panel would proceed with the appeal from that point so don't understand why when things got that ministre tiddly fouled up in the court the parties don't go to the district judge and say please that are a proper judgment it's really really simple does not have any rights to the airplane as opposed to the broader amp it has legal and marketable title is that correct that is correct ok so you're agreeing you are not seeking a declaration as broad as clarify because what you asked for it for relief in your complaint seems different although it's a little hard to tell from the ruling which is this part of the issue here it seems different than what you were seeking in the officially is that fair  why because the playing is here mr green it was here who's operating this registration system first is an aircraft used in interstate commerce it's registered in a federal she goes to the point of knowledge and when it's when it's ascertaining and when i heard mr kerr county and saying over and over again is that it really matters when mr martini and but that is not the there are many points along the way but the record is clear that in one nine hundred eighty five shortly after ronald reagan defeated walter mondale for president when the macintosh computer was