facts you know with citations to each statement and under that story under that version what clearly happened was the officers first knew that kim williams the the undersheriff robertson we've about this for about three weeks what is important to note here too is the context we're talking about even idaho account of a couple hundred people uncommon that in search warrant affidavit there's indications that the person in the residence has been seen armed or they may be in vetoing searching you know or you know guns as ours that house so that that's a factor you know the fact that someone could be arms or that there could be weapons in the residence is not really an unusual circumstance for starting a search warrant for how you know sort of not knowing there what could the officers have done what they didn't have a search warrant and what alternatives did they have first of all let me agree with you especially in rural idaho where everyone has a gun in their house that's not a surprise was different here is you know the guy was afraid and was being stark and you had court orders trying to keep the guy there you had marion cotillard going into the county courthouse that day and night you know that there was some indication that he might not hear well mr taylor indicates that she told the officers that yes but to get back to your point this isn't simply a case where somebody garage twenty feet across the grass they came through that door between the two garage over here the worst unannounced to get into the house was there a door well there's a door between the garage in the hallway at the back of the garage it's total chaos and mean it's just a total shoot out when you get to the second prong as sosie a how do you overcome that in terms of what a reasonable you know obviously when someone that's not a surprise the search was not planned as any dynamic search would be quite where you have some distraction so that when you break through somebody's store they're not right there they didn't give him time to come reasonable officers knew that she was only just in his home while those same officers and mr williams were trying to get her into a shelter away from north or for those two feats but they knew she was at least living there for the time being in fact the district court examined the record very carefully in this case both the magistrate judge and the district judge and they both applied rule fifty six kind of problem manner and took the fa in favor of the plaintiffs and found that there were no material disputes that would prevent summary judgment under the fourth amendment standards that were have been set forth by this court in alexander and subsequently billington that there was no constitutional violation that preceded the use of deadly force that occurred when the officers entered the home let me ask you a question sir you cited i believe filling ten wouldn't be advisable to repeat the same entry now they don't have a search warrant but you know obviously of holland spain they have information you know given all inferences that i'm in favor of the plaintiff or the appellant in this matter that you know that was you know that he was you know you had had a recent threat in his life he was very frightened and was prepared to defend his you know was prepared to defend his life and that is you know arguably different than say just knowing people have guns or knowing that they're armed and you know i don't know if we can take you just you know this but according to helen everyone here has guns in their home i don't know if that's true or not i come from california but the you know is you know i mean there was he had had a recent incident and they knew about a recent incident where his life had been threatened and he was answering the door with a gun and he's obviously saying you know just because they had a search warrant they needed to do a different type of entry in order not to raise the level of danger here well first of all your honor what scott and reynolds and billington tell us is that we were not allowed and looking back the use of deadly force to go back and criticize the tactics that were used by the officers and if there were less intrusive means that were available under he officers here the approach was still within that realm of reasonable as the officers it's clear that what the plan was was to go in and and that they did in fact knock on the house and the record is clear in this matter this is not i just the fact in the way if you look at the record they knocked on the door they pounded on the door to tell deputy jim wallace and pounded on the door with his fist yelled sheriff's department search warrant yelled a they would so that mr williams would know it was law enforcement that they would then confront him with overwhelming force and that's a pretty well known tactic in these types of situations that you go in and even if you have somebody who may have a weapon or access to a weapon you confront them with overwhelming force and expect them to comply with the officer's directions and that is not what happened and that's what precipitated the shoot was that despite the announcement reckless provocation of the independent unconstitutional nature that would lead that resulted in this not being what conduct that a reasonable officer would have taken under the but we don't even have to go there judge just because that is exactly what billings and rejected that based on the existing precedent in the ninth circuit which would be the standard and january two thousand and one if we would have done something different with twenty twenty hindsight that the outcome would have been different we have to establish that these police officers had an intend to vote the response in a violent confrontation that was an unconstitutional act on its own such as in the alexander case where it was their conduct was reasonable given the circumstances for a police officer let me ask you talking directly about  taylor who was hiding in the bedroom when just one stock so even under those circumstances for conduct would have been reasonable plus there is nothing in the evidence that shows that mr williams was incapacitated even at the time that mary ann taylor  says she went to the second bedroom because she last because he equated looked at her in the closet and said you bitch and he seemed to be fumbling with his gun so he still had control of the guy which would also be reasonable  to believe that he'd already killed two officers that her or her life was personally in danger which is not the case in some of the other precedents precedents so even taking the plaintiff's facts a that she heard justin roberts from outside calling her to come out of the house and that's when she last the house to three questions yes one just a matter of through the garage because at that time under the construction of the house there was no other entry the other the this was a split level house and i'm trying to remember how why there was because they were living in the bedroom that's one of the kitchen the kitchen was in the bedroom so the way the house was construction the only access was through the garage into the interior rush door into the house the second williams they're not going to take me alive so he has some recognition of who there was i think even under the recent just us supreme court case so long as there is a recognition of who is out there the time i not so relevant to be able to say five seconds or ten seconds or twenty seconds j been waved and kicked the door at least three times before comes up with and then immediately start shooting was ten seconds they could have waited from the time knocking three seconds at the most we've laid down the time and simply could have been a reasonable amount of time under him and i want to go back and face as i said before i when i understood who was going to hear this i just as recently various health club members homes they got a week to plan they don't plan for the eventuality that they're going to create gardens they're going to encounter dogs except the shooter and your decisions as they created this plan is going to bring the officers into proximity with the dogs without any means other than lethal means to control the