issue is this that congress gave one reason for deciding to choose the higher packing weight over the verified component weight and that is that the packing weight was that represent me i say the percentage you know you are ok about eight percent of the total so the actual disparity in weight is about three point six percent and there's no reason to think that a three point six percent difference in weight affects the t that means we gave them all the information there's nothing more we could have given them because they verified the facts and they had a city verified they didn't actually put all these components on the scale right correct is something that and she's receives are they the same towers or not the same towers or do we just not know when we don't want to record so if we don't know then why is it never seen ins or you know less or didn't like our company or something and those good correspondent we don't know that so it could be that it those are completely unrelated and we therefore do not have to do your preferred simple thing first what we're saying is that as a matter department of commerce policy when you have a of something the financial statement job or charges including affection and she will expect if you have an expense department of co substantively related but if they're just related at the level of name that's probably not enough in the way that job work charges and job work income are almost certainly completely unrelated in substance one is manufactur why they could do that but on the other hand it's like she said so why would anybody care about it's like it well well million or something i did one play something really and it's just so trivial why would anybody fight about it is there anything actually rational about including convoluted they just went around in circles do you have do you want to quickly identify the other ledgers you have on issue three on issue three we believe the bigger it is that they should have used the first methodology the simple methodology rather convoluted methodology and also if you lose you use a convoluted methodology you have a just a total disconnect where you have income of all of this of hundred  calculate it is associated with something else on and it just doesn't it just doesn't make sense the way they get at the roundabout way they get their act doesn't work because they they make a fundamental mistake well i would include safety concerns and shipping these products no but as the trial court in this case recognizing this is a page one twenty five one twenty six of the record congress was full speed with imperfect information there were two numbers and it and congress went with a number that would link three point six percent difference in the weight is significant enough significant enough to the safety of the ship that we therefore will believe a higher number because it's more likely accurate well here are right if you get explanations of page fifty seven fifty eight of the record in congress as issues and decision memorandum you look at is if it is a five digit figure and one would expect if there is going to be a difference in the weights that it would be the entire weight of the entire half that would be extreme on the other hand it's three point seven percent as is indicated in court today we understand it's not it could be a larger number but that was a sufficient discrepancy for congress to say you know this is an issue that needs a convert asked a number of times first yesman to explain where the discrepancy was didn't get a satisfactory answer and so at the end of the day this was back to the trial court's decision covers tided determination to the real world choices we said we are going to youth congress  pac was actually pretty important figure for these packing and shipping purposes and so while i don't think she has been provided i you know it has to be right within you know this percentage point the number here three point seven issue at the end of the day there are two pieces of evidence in this financial statements of page seven thirty seven and seventy four seventy seven thirty seven is where it's a job or chargers include civil rights expenses and both like but these are proven and what's your basis for saying that they're not likely to be the same so these are broken out as a separate item on the on the income statement yourself and then there's separate items for income from civil and income correction and the notice to the income statement is at seven forty indicate that they are going on a percentage of completion basis and so that indicated  commerce that this was a separate income line item that's not part of the general operations of the company and that's commerce when you have something like that does not treat the item is as a general overhead it's really easy to hide trying to mistakes in the the mystery miracle of technicalities that's why it's important that we actually understand the explanation under understood i can say that i think you know what was happening here is clear it can't possibly be late to the job or charges well again because it had the same because it had this because it had the same name that's kind of a problem for you right if that's what you follow performing the outsource work for somebody else in the right hand side as opposed to that that's right that still i think my understanding is that commerce still treats that as it is a general general because this is part of our general sale but we're getting paid as we do this work that's that's a separate item separate business is not part of hey we're we're selling you when towers this is you know if you take the reply brief which i proportion of income that relates to drop work expense it didn't make any sense to me sure i can address that by the nature of job work you're talking about work that doesn't involve war materials and electric labor because you are i guess another way of asking my question is why is it that overhead plus energy i'm buying all those costs necessarily tells us what's the percentage of income from the sales of finished goods correlates with figure out which part of the income from the sales of finished goods relates back to the driver expense that you know in order to and that was paid out in order to get that sales of finished good when when you have finished goods that are produced in part based on job work and then you sell them you make a certain amount of income we can't say we were not going to break out what portion of that income is related to the job workforce of the work is not appropriate and that's not really what congress  with the more material and labor saying look we need to adjust this because one thing that we know is in part job for our raw materials and labor because job or just work that someone else is someone else is doing for you so you don't have to deal with the wrong to reals and labor and so we need to adjust these figures the cells finish would figure to come to the fact that really some of that is is is threatened surely as a labor because you are when you're selling your own goods you are expanding direct materials and l and so that entails a calculation that i just spoke about a few moments ago where commerce is saying ok we're going to figure out across the company what your direct material labor costs are as a as a percentage of your your overall cost and then so given that credit what you're doing is just you know now you're back when you're dealing with the sales of raw goods and the sales of scrap you're back in ganges world where not just energy and overhead but everything's to date that those type of other expenses would be present when you're dealing with when you're dealing with the are challenging the calculation of this factor as be reals and labor that these type of other things are other expenses that would be associated across the board whether it's job work or other type of work it is the focus is i understand it on  bit of a disconnect is i don't think there's a really has been an argument in this case that would be appropriate for her to consider that other things that our children were ordered caliber of everything else are actually orange like overhead you're doing it you're using your own labor and using your own raw materials and some portion of them in that process rez if you when it comes to job work that's not that's someone else's  three five and you look at the intro wait reported there it appears that they're missing two sections two tower sections of weight internal components are what's really off here if you total up the other components of steel plat door frame and flange comparing j five nights to with j three five they're not off by much in fact they're very close what's off the internal components and are off by a factor of four so that the other interop components or the middle section of abstraction where they go if they were never reported there's no means of commerce to determine that they were actually in there which is why again they go back to the pack we pack weight is clearly relevant it's important your own customer generates this document for purposes of loading on the ship i can't just ignore it so based on that congress reasonably concluded that there does appear to be something this in here question about the argument we were just discussing back of the pack and yes so did commerce make its decision to revive or packing weight based on the magnitude of the difference which the government's brief it emphasizes as a baffling or and or it relied on that kind of document comparison we just recognize that there's going to be a difference and we go to congress and we say look we have given you the actual internals we've given you everything everything that was in that wind power we've told you you know you could verify that nothing is