good morning your honor is donald cook for the plans of mr santos and the court would just indulge me saying facts procedural facts let's reverse the rove roles mr santos asked for discovery cut off date more than ninety days before the trial date and the court granted the defense files their expert reports timely under the rule twenty six plaintive does not the time expert reports i think if you run this those that are facts before lawyers familiar with federal practice and the requirement for good cause i think the worst probably tell you you have a better chance of winning at keno than you have showing good cause to him in a scheduling order setting a timeline for discovery disclosing experts is not going to be gr i start with the expertise you because it is frankly difficult for me to comprehend how that order could be made when i know that if i were ever in that position i would never get an order like that amended on the kind of showing that was made here as far as the summary judgment luck that's what i'd really like to start with if you don't mind is the discovery well sure and that's why the exactly in with the summary judgment motion right we asked for the use of force investigation files because obviously we're trying to undermine now we're trying to establish a pattern or practice is it your view that when one says undermine now one needs to have some sort of indication that there is an all violation in order to get the discovery or or would you feel that if there is an individual case there should be someone else discovery just sort of on general principles well we had the allegation now claim against callers that it's police department that entitle pursue discovery we had in this particular case what would you rely on for that point well personally a line of fact i'm well i'm familiar with ted cook the covers of the police department and the culver city police department and i know when anyway and now you have to in effect what present some substantial showing before you can get the discovery to prove the case for some  question just in the way it's been framed here i can't give you one off the top of my head and then i have a question about what actually happened there's some discussion of the hearing with a magistrate judge about what discovery should be allowed it's a little inconclusive an order is submitted drafted by the pursue the ministry of tort claim because frankly the ministry of tort claims are a very marginal significance you know to our claims were filed by by individuals who as a precursor to filing a state lawsuit it's not a document prepared by the city we were really interested in the force investigations of the city because that tells us what the city practices how they conduct their investigations that's what we really wanted that we did not get it was that type of widespread practice evidence that the defendant cited its absence of its absence that justified granting summary judgment did you get copies of the department's policies on internal investigations or did you have the and it was rather interesting i didn't have the formal written policy but the formal policy is as these things are rather vague in general and what we were interested in is getting the how the department actually conduct the evidence of causation is you have the expert declaration of former deputy chief david dotson you don't track uses of force certain things are going to happen officers get the message that they can do this they can gauge in this conduct the department's not going to follow up on it and makes it more likely that it will happen is that an ironclad rule is that like the second law throat in thermodynamic no but that's not the standard here the standard is what is likely to happen are evidence of causation would it then the practice of the department's force investigation coupled with what that practice means to the line evidence related to the underlying incident he doing the evidence from a number of other incidents that support the theory that the alleged constitutional violation in that particular case was caused by a practice or custom of the m two actors and excessive force by other people in the department or investigations of excessive force by cases involving other people other police officers so if the original request was brought it was narrowed but employees improperly used excessive force we didn't get those records we should have gotten those records well if you had started with the tort claims though wouldn't that have given you a list of all the claims that have been made against the city so that you could  source of information and can give you leads they are not by any means comprehensive they don't purport to track but what i don't understand mr cook is this your court gave you that discovery but you didn't avail yourself of it and if that's the first step in the investigation why didn't you take it and then come back and say now here's a specific incidents that i want discovery on to which i think demonstrate my mail because tort claims are not comprehensive they force tracking system yes or their access to force tracking system so the district court said fine in lieu of going back through every arrest report for five years by one hundred twenty officers start with the tort claims and you didn't do that we asked for give us the complaint investigations because there is a policy a written policy that says culver city must investigate complaints of excessive force we asked for those files we never got them we were then he shouldn't be allowed to use their declaration to judge collins obviously disagreed with us we think that was wrong i just don't understand why you didn't use the procedures of the federal rules of civil procedure provided in order to seek relief for for the stonewalling by the defense i submit we did we brought a motion to compel we sought in obtaining extensions on the discovery cut off but in response to your motion to compel the magistrate judge entered this discovery order which included take the first step by iraq at stories and if that's not good enough then come back and you didn't do that we have a discovery cut off and a second discovery we simply run out of time to have to jump through all the