condition six receiving hearing was advertised in the observer recorder in nov thirtieth and december seventh here a notice was placed in a township bulletin boards the website and cable television in addition the property was posted in the field  surrounding property owners were sent a written notice by mail council may act on this request during the regular meeting the process will be brief presentation from staff followed by testimony and presentation from the applicant in the audience  except to read that condition it says that the maid marian street right away shall do come into the eastern property line abiding peter townsend school district property the right away may be allowed at the with of thirty three feet and the it's of at least twenty feet wide be installed to the property line the intended use of the connection may be limited to emergency and school bus access any other use must be specifically approved by council a gate may be install at their december tenth meeting the planning commission recommended the condition under six be amended to allow for emergency use one round bus trip to the pleasant valley elementary school that would be one trip in one trip about one round bus trip to the high school and the access be used for no purpose and be gated in accordance with peter's township emergency service specifications plenty commission was is just not receptive to introducing traffic came to this residential area so that was the purpose and reason behind their recommendation would like to ask the court reporter to police where it anybody in the audience that wants to make a comment so if you wish to comment during the course of the hearing at any point would you please be sworn in by the court reporter we will start with the with the developer chair thank you very much for the opportunity to be here on behalf of the land my name is david montgomery i'm an attorney for eddie land and john morris is here the vice president of of sales for any land we're asking council to amend the can one of the conditions that it imposed back in june when it approved this patio home development specifically we're referring to a condition six which is a condition council imposed requiring an easement be granted from maid marian to the border of the adjoining height peters township school district property  d that condition also provided that the school district should be allowed to have both emergency access and access for school buses and such future access is this council may grant when we appeared in front of council back in june the school district had submitted their own letter of what it view their requests to be for their access so i'd like to him that up this is a made for t v twenty fifteen letter where the school district is telling you what they consider their needs to be with respect to access across maid marian and in their may fourteenth letter thomas mcmurray who is the president of the board of school directors wrote to the council and planning commission and said that this is reading from the middle of the letter the school district has requesting this action to secure a second axis for future potential future property development in emergency response the district contends to access the road for emergency special use in future needs and as future needs made to dictate so when we appeared from the council back in june with respect to this condition we use application the testimony that we heard in the request we heard was for emergency access at that point and perhaps for intermittent special use if there might be some very significant event at the high school then perhaps there could be some special use across made merion but we never heard even heard it articulated at a meeting that there would be ongoing bus traffic through this neighborhood and so when the condition came out in june we thought that went a bit beyond what the school district even asked for and what the planning commission had recommended and quite frankly i think what a lot of the neighbors had testified that expressly that they did not want through their neighborhood so the condition appeared we were very happy to get the patio home approval but this condition is something that we would still like this council look to modify in the way it stands right now counsel him impose impose a condition allowing both emergency and bus traffic and frankly we don't think this residential neighborhood is the proper setting for a portal for bus traffic from a high school from the high school and that that would be that would be opening a spicket to a great deal of traffic in the morning the afternoon which would really  injure the quality of life in the neighborhood so we don't think that's appropriate we would request that this council restore what the school to the language to what the school district asked for the neighbors requested and that the plane the commission initially recommended to just emergency access the intermittent special use and then in the event the school district comes back before council and they can have their own hearing where they present their evidence and the public has a chance to participate in a future time they could ask for a different type of access but we would leave that in the control of council at some time in the future to be determined but not at this juncture where they haven't even asked for that sort of relief so with that i'll turn it over to john rhodes who can explain some of the issues that the developer would have with this sort of school traffic thank you very much so we are targeting very standpoint there's a huge supply coming online in the next two years in the surrounding areas proximity to this and we're higher price we're targeting higher price point and when we found out that bus traffic would be coming regularly it kind of changed our point of view of what the properties best use was so basically from our standpoint we feel like if there is daily bus traffic to the high school this property zoned for paddy or town i guess our point  today where we stand if you guys field in this se to have buses we would kind of change our marketing plan get a townhome we know the planning commission suggested maybe one trip for the high school and one trip for an elementary school to travel to a maid marian i guess planning commission was offering that perhaps as some sort of compromise with what it thought the wish of council would be but again that's beyond what the school district had requested and i guess from our perspective one trip a day doesn't sound like a big deal but but once you allow some bus trucker to be coming through it's a very short step to allowing unfettered bus traffic and that concerns the developer so we don't think even opening about up for daily bus use even at that modest degree is a is a good idea so we would reject that aspect of the play in the commission's recommendation  you keep saying you feel like this will be a hinderance to your development but do you have any proof of data that would support feeling we have to make a huge investment based on our experience in the past and just i've had everyone comes to me one of the first questions is is there children in the neighborhood is there kids we're trying to encourage a huge walking community and just through traffic i think would just be detrimental to that whole kind of cause we kind of heard that when the for the development up above k mart that development it was like way before there was this huge supply coming online and today there's like all these new communities coming in first for living it's much more competitive than it was five years ago  that's our presentation we just counted restore this to back to what the plan to commission recommended initially and what the school district actually requested thank you for your consideration to questions we'd be happy to answer  this evening as a resident i am here as the vice president of school board to provide a commentary when we were originally asked to evaluate the situation back in june we did so on a very general basis when this particular request for a change came up we took a very careful analysis of the busing transportation mapping for the district and that is the basis for our request in discussions for one trip for pleasant valley and one trip for the high school we currently have a population of students who are still on the bus substantially longer than they actually need to be because we have to go all the way around so we are very comfortable agreeing to one trip for the pleasant valley and one trip for the high school without anticipating that we would need more now of course should the population of the development include children that might change but that would be a change i completely concur with the developers attorney we said we would need to come back and ask for a change and in those circumstances i would point out in terms of data that water dam farms is a relatively comparable community there was an expectation that it would be shall we say populating it in fact is currently searched by three bus routes so because it's patio homes does not mean that you are in a situation where children will not be involved but at that point the school district would come back and ask for an alteration to the situation at the moment it would substantially enhanced our transportation to be able to do that to do one trip in and out and one trip in and out for pleasant valley and high school i would also point out that this past week we had exactly an emergency situation that could arise when we had the water main break we had to close the facility because if there was no access to the high school or pleasant valley as a cause as a result of the water main break had there been an alternative  access we would have been able to deal with the situation and we might not have had to close the schools that day but that's exactly the kind of situation which was extraordinary unusual nothing planned but that's the kind of situation where there might be more than one trip because that becomes an alternative access having a single access to that campus has long been an issue but until there was development up there there was nothing the school district could do about it so this is very important to us discussed some alternatives for controlling the gate i'm not sure what that would be at this point whether it would be a remote or a keypad or a key or what the control would be it would not be open for the use of high school students driving to school this would be controlled access at least the school board's conception is that this would be controlled access controlled by the bus drivers who are driving those two blasts similar to what we have our good our public some signage maybe something that could deter others might have individual drop in school want to go that way right but if it's gated and they don't have the keypad they're blocked they would be blocked from it in a group any other questions i taking their kids to school you know whether it comes off of maid marian king richard robin hood you know little john the other streets you know how we're really going to be able to control that i mean even if you put a gate or keypad you know who's to say you know buses and few other you know vehicles coming behind it i just think it's almost going to be impossible to control and you know sense when crosswinds drive you know open up into the town homes that are down below already i mean if the school district was looking for an alternative route to get into the school campus  use for town homes i mean that's also going to significantly increase traffic in that area as well which i think would be a detriment to the overall values out there in the properties  that might be caused by this but if we have to change the plains to the development having more more more cars come up there more and more traffic come up there at that point when we open the crossing below us ever so much more traffic already through there i mean you can barely drive through there now trying to make the left turn on the on the on to cross wind and almost get hit by a car that's happened several times to me so it's really concerning to me as a neighbor to have more and more traffic coming into that area do you know i've been there like i said for seventeen years and if we can keep it the way it is now that be great rather than adding more and more traffic to that area thank you to probably always will you know it is the worst traffic congestion area in the township and i think this community has said loud and clear that we need to be able to prove o that we look for years as a second axis to the high school in the pleasant valley i think in the area that we are today the reason i think i feel so strongly about that is for emergency response i don't think a decade ago that would have been on my radar to the same extent but i am very much opposed to you know closing very much opposed to restricting the bus traffic it seems very reasonable to me and quite frankly i would rather the requested change condition six be routed down which is one off when the money we have been hearing for the first time we do remember asking on at least a couple probably more occasions to the present or planning in supervisor level both meetings it was said there would be no daily bus traffic right now and i'm i'm really having a hard time imagining the two bus trips or an imposition i really  am i understand your slippery slope theory that if you know the i think that this problem and explained that it is significant to the school district you know whether it sounds like a lot or not it is important to them and you know i think that that it is or are reasonable but i think it can be controlled so yeah that is i understand their perspective i just think in our minds the highest and best use changes because this was basically a concession to the neighbors you know is what we had some high end homes on that street around we once promised million dollar homes here and financially the town homes makes much more sense and when you risk i was doing this at  doing art still have the authority to require that right away i think you do if they decide to change it to start development they'd have to come in for a new condition or use requests and access at that point right  opposed to what you feel because i again every time we have approved these cuts through those the resistance of people hasn't really changed the value of the properties like we were told doesn't change the amount of sales so it just seems mike who is going to install the controlling device who's going to be responsible for making sure that if we do allow them t basically to bus trips a day that will basically there won't be people coming in behind the busses the school district would be putting in the gate we were to approve it from a construction standpoint and then if not sure what those would be to make sure that they comply i don't think we do have a willing participate with the school district there not just any other developer landowner we've had now the municipalities cement factory and some other trucks are using problem but i really don't know if we're looking for a problem where i'm just asking so we could have an ordinance or something that would allow us to ticket abusers for that that would use that area illegally and that they were john  either except the developers suggestion that it be emergency use only to accept the planning commission has recommendation that it be emergency use one bus trip for pleasant and they're offering a program where they go in and replace own at no cost if you're of the lights or a ten year contract which like ninety percent if not more lights are beyond a ten year contract so we may have a few lights it might thousand and twenty capital improvement program orders us to keep the how much are requires us to adopt the five year capital improvement program eyes not a commitment to them funds it's basically a plan to let you know what to anticipate in the future and total five year plan is seventy million five every six thousand the first year which would be included in the operating budget is four more in one hundred seventy two thousand which is hearing one item not budgeted and we're still waiting to hear from the state with the final budget we did not include any money for the gas excise tax which probably will be the transfer tax that would work but i mean that's a normal council meeting that night anyhow one night and i may buy you one of the normally we would leave her meeting on the fourth and the meeting on the on the eleventh which would normally be  are some things that both of us can do to move this process forward in in a reasonable manner i would like to suggest from the townships perspective that we take a serious and structure to what functions the fire department proposes to do in that area and whether there are any alternative ways of performing those functions of the workers are another place that they could be maybe there isn't maybe the answer is that's the only place to do it but i think we owe it to the process to to list what has to be done where it has to be done wired has to be done that way then to look at what the alternatives would be to create another space you know it's been suggested ok what if we would if we build another facility fine what would it cost and you know the cost may be a million dollars or something you said something that you know that somebody wants to talk about if not then we least we know that we have looked at it in a structured manner and we've we've you know we seriously evaluated it rather than just simply said it will cost too much money so if we look at what we what we what we need to do in our training what it is what space is required to do it and where it's required to do it you know it might not have to have it right there or it may but we need to we need to look at it from their perspective they need to look at alternatives to or they could go and not just say you know we did there's no space available i would like to know where they go to look to you know what the cost may be and i know that there are several facilities that have spoken to either the timeship or two meals on wheels offering or suggesting space i don't know what the cost would be i don't know how practical all of those spaces are but there have been a number of suggestions made and these were not things that i think were on the table last monday when we last spoke so i think we need to from their side they need to seriously look at those things then we have two years until the releases of if the decision is made that there is of the other base that could be converted to a usable facility for meals on  asset you know and maybe we could work with them to be able to you know make a proposal or sponsor a proposal from from them for money to do that i was paid if they have a good proposal were made that you know that there would be money available for or something like that but i think that it if we if we work in those directions i think we will have a a good process and if the end of the at the end of the process at some point in time whether it's two or three months from now we can get back together she where we are with all of this and i think we could have a much more constructive conversation moving forward about what various people's options are so i would like to suggest that  dislike i think that makes a hell of a lot of sense to me and i think that getting more information is all is always good i mean i can appreciate their reluctance to move from that space because you ought to mid it's because they did a great job and i mean there's there's things that are going around i heard stuff from different people did it i mean i know that are very are nonsense and so you know i just i would just like to get a factual discussion in front of everybody and i'm sure that when she when she was would look at that you know it'll be fairly clear one way or the other what has to be done but at least whatever decision we made will then be based on some demonstrably facts and moving forward then we don't have to sit here and say well they didn't listen to issues we didn't listen to them you know what but i would just say this is an important decision for her for meals on wheels for the township for the recipients cost prohibitive well i mean at least let's say i'm not saying we should do it on to say you don't have to spend a lot of time but a member state if we if if the discussion is that we need a five thousand square foot facility or you know whatever the number happens to come up know so i mean it's it is something that needs some study so i think if there's a consensus of council can we do it down ship to start doing it mark you need to be involved in this obviously if we were to do this we would have to bid it out and frankly i think you probably might get a couple of people that would bid on it and you know we can put provisions that the army uses and how the exterior would look as a part of the b