well the regular meeting of the water resources committee please come to order today is wednesday july twenty second twenty fifteen and it's approximately about eight minutes after nine o'clock in the morning i am the chairperson of the water resources committee glottis by some and i'd like to ask everyone in the room if you've got a cell phone or something that will ring if you please put it on the silent mode we'd appreciate that very much i'd like to introduce the members that are with us this morning i'd like to introduce mr bob carroll of funny smell me what is good morning and i guess that's it all the rest of us see here thank you very much members for being prompt we also have with us this morning the director of water supply david taylor  morning and we have mr crewe she our deputy corporation counsel good morning and sitting in the audience that will drag him up here pretty quick is lieutenant scott english the from the department of fire and public safety also have my committee staff kimberly well then bring our legislative analyst good morning chair good morning and we have clear readable lolla our committee secretary thank you very much ladies for all the hard work that you do and in our district office is we have a district office staff we have gone alone no in our hot office denise fernandez in our land i office and l l conn oh and we're going to be taking public testimony members in just a minute here testimony of course will be limited to the one item on our agenda today if you wish to testify please sign up at the dislocated indiait for lobby or if you're one of the in one of the district offices he's signed up their testimony will be limited to three minutes and upon request up to a minute to conclude at three minutes the light will turn yellow and for minutes it if you're still talking at the four minute remark i will kindly ask you to stop when testifying please state your name and if you are representing any group please tell us that two we have established a connection to the district offices and to be much l appreciate it ok well here in the test in together we we have i think a bunch of folks who want to testify and i am very grateful to have them here this morning mr mullin brink if you can just call up provides an exemption from the rural subdivision requirements to upgrade the county water tank from fifty thousand gallons to one hundred twenty thousand gallons and replace all six inch lines with a pinch of lines to your property the original bill exempted subdivision of three lot so less this version limits the exemption to only two lots provides a wonderful preamble about affordable housing for families and as a lots of conditions what the co gives it can take away soon you're at the point of no why bother a major change here's a reduction of fire for exemption scope from three lots or less to only two lines the scope of the fire flow exemption will three lots would make a subdivision were much more feasible for many small families is there a difference between a lot with the meter being divided into two lots and a lot without a meter being divided into lots since the former requires only one new meter and the latter requires two main is there ought to be a difference if the issue is water consumption and not development control also can i meet a request in the original application for me to upgrade your policies here should be clearly stated section to preventing change of a water request to a subdivision is mean spirited considering the original application is twenty years old and do get the applications we're not allowed we support the reasonable requirements for sprinkler systems systems in sections three and four section five prevents re subdivision is unnecessary  homeless to replace a thousand gallons per minute requirement for all up country you could eliminate the need that is exemption and provide lots of new housing section b allows applicants that have been dropped from the list sixty days to reconsider if said applicant is still the owner of the parcel since all these applications are twenty years old he have again may indeed be dead or has given the land that the council is worried about legal action relating to the passage of this bill by those who are forced to make improvements prior to it's an act and if this is the case perhaps council should also worry about suits from those who have been  denied fair use of their property according to their zoning for twenty to thirty years by the media with that self on the provably false issue of lack of water i have long wondered why someone has not brought a class action suit against the council and county on behalf of all the me to list properties thank you thank you very much dr members any need for clarification of the testimony good morning aloha chair by sat and council members my name is bobby pat nod and i am vice president of the cool a community association and i am testifying for the cooler community association board today in favor of the bill intitled bill for an ordinance amending chapter fourteen point one three my county coal intitled water meter issuance provisions for the upcountry water system relating to fire protection supports this bill as it will allow more people on the up country meter list access to meters and allow faster progress in issuing meters this bill will enable more affordable housing to be built as families will now be able to build where they couldn't before we also appreciate the due diligence regarding the risk to homeowners and the county reflected in the language of the bill we support the provision to go back and allow those who would have qualified with this bill another chance to accept a metre we are not that far down the list that a few months will make a material difference to those of us lower down the list in addition the k c board would like to see a review of the fixture count requirements which would allow even more people to obtain a meter sooner as those who are only applying for a meter in order to satisfy the fixture count may be able to drop off the list the k c board greatly appreciates the efforts the water resources committee is making to help people on the list thank you very much thank you very much mr nude members any questions testify or seeing none thank you very much association supports the intent on the proposed draft bill on helping my county families acquire water meters there is a concern with the language on the bill of the bill on the top of page two numbers one and two referring to subdivisions for only two lots of the language serves as a good clause for real estate abuse the bill probably unintentionally limits the number of family members ability to subdivide family property in addition not sure how this language would affect allowable farm employee houses as well so please take a moment to discuss these concerns in today's meeting thank you thank you very much mr justin though and we definitely will be explaining to everyone i testified on the first hearing on this bill and made a suggestion that the idea of subdivisions be taken out of this bill and it's still in the bill and went from three to two my position remains the same number one i think the bill's a great idea will help people upcountry you have a limited amount of water you have a list of people who want to meter you have limited infrastructure in the roadway system to deliver water to the lots so i'm a little confused as to why you want to allow subdivisions whether the two or three when you're trying to help people just to me it doesn't make any sense people have been on this list for decades they need the water for their for their part of they want to build a house they want to build a cottage they can do so with a fixed account if they meet the fixture count requirements i believe i would just say to you look if you want to maximize the benefit eliminate the idea of subdivisions and just stick with a meter and i would assume that when you sign up for a meter you have to assign it to a t m k ok you get a meter for that t m k and then you can build your house then you can extend the opportunity to that many more people if you don't allow subdivisions and i in this there has been talk about family subdivisions which i think is a great idea but as a as a practical matter and having been involved with it with family subdivisions from an outside point of view there's opportunity for subterfuge which i don't think works for what you're trying to do here so i would suggest you leave out the subdivision provision one meter per lot you're on the list call it even and let those people take advantage of that then when you get off when you exhaust the list you have more source come back and re evaluate this but i think the idea is getting water out to people so they can build on their lots and add value it helps the county helps everybody so i would stick with that thank you thank you and thank you for your input members any need to clear the visions and done subdivisions for over forty years now and i've watched so many of the dreams of subdivision go up and up in smoke to mention that there is no subdivision then we should change the acre there should be some changes there too if we are going to do that stop so divisions we have the people pay taxes for half acres own so we should be able to divide down to a half acres or we also should be able to divide because we're purchasing land to keep our family here to make affordable housing for our family and we try our best every single day pain high taxes pain also mortgages to keep that land now we need you to console to step forward and give us a break here and i'm saying us because now i am involved in trying to do my subdivision like i said i've watched of lot of dreams go up in smoke because of lines even even if the size do not meet the requirements to supplement the fire hydrant put in fire make sure require fire protection sprinkler systems in the house based on this scenario it would allow for the subdivision into three lots tree lot so less which falls within the colony codes tree lot so less of the vision you have but you have a break and you're in what you have to what you have to pay what what you have to do for the subdivision proposing some of the fire protection plus fire protection sprinklers for the three lots of the vision makes sense we're asking for it we are not asking for a change in zoning as as you have you have seen in my local while a couple wherever it is what we're asking is to fall in line with what we are paying taxes for half acre it's all subdivision of  axes and we need to get that the families consist of on an average is more than two children so what i mean i don't get it let's make a house and a cottage give them give them the land  give them the right that ok we're going to have a water meter and you're going to have one cause someone caught each now i don't know about you but i come from a portuguese family and on sometimes we don't get along too well so living in one house one cottage and you gave me one cottage and you gave my brought on on hols come on you know that thing just not going flow too well the water will flow better it fits with the three lots the less and everybody will be a lot happier if we can do it but require a fire protection and i think sprinkler systems and i kept promoting this private fire protection for sprinkler systems work the save lives fire hydrant ten fire h property will not save that house from going down and possibly a life could be lost on that property that's my stuff thank you very much members need to clear the testimony saying thank you thomas crawley today testifying on behalf of go maui a five a one c four organization dedicated to the advocacy of affordable housing from our residents he supports the efforts of this committee to provide an exemption from fire flow related infrastructure upgrades for some applicants on the upgrade water meter list providing affordable housing to maui residents is not a simple problem to solve it requires multiple diversified efforts and this measure before the committee today is just one of those efforts that will help we hope in discussion today that representatives of the water department and fire department will clearly explain how this measure would directly apply to the individuals on the upcountry water list both secure a water meter and subsequently build a house for themselves or a member of their ohana specifically it appears this measure would remove the to do only exemption from fire protection review provided in maui county code fourteen zero four dot au two instead it would require the residential developer dwellings to be sprinklered or have an on site water supply available for firefighting we hope that these requirements remain practical and do not p residents just on a side note the fixture count thing that got brought up is really really does make a lot of sense to try to remove some of the folks from the list who are on the list simply because of a fixture count issue i didn't understand fixture count when it applied to me personally and then once i did understand it from this committee that it was really just about if you have this many fixtures you're a part of infrastructure cost this much so when i came to understand that i came down i paid the money i got my larger meter i did nothing changed in my house but i recognized if i had forty points on the fixture count thing than my part of infrastructure was this amount of dollars and i owed that to the county so i paid them these people who are on the list trying to make a small improvement to their house they want to add a bathroom they want to add something they're being told you can't do that because you're going to exceed the fixture count they're not going to use a lot more water once they do that but they do owe the money the county money because you're saying ok this is your portion of the of infrastructure needs so i get that but but to have the list to keep other folks who just need a meter from getting their meter because this other guy wants to make an improvement on his house it does make sense for this committee in another item to consider changing this fixture count thing and how that how that gets applied i think that would just be another one of the small things that would help in this in this effort to provide housing for our residents thank you thank you mr curly and you must have been looking in my computer as that is what we are discussing next members any questions for thank you very much don the night off is denise do you have anyone wishing to testify testify who is moved by what you've heard here will give you an opportunity to come down and testify and we can do people who are later seeing none members we have no one in the district offices or in the gallery that hasn't testified that would like to testify so without objections i'd like to close public testimony thank you very much oh ok well let's begin here our committee folks is in receipt of correspondence dated july fifteenth from the department of corporation counsel transmit in a proposed bill entitled a bill for an ordinance amending chapter fourteen point one three mile we county code entitled water meter issuance provisions for the upcountry water system relating to fire protection the purpose of the proposed bill is to provide that applicants on the upcountry priority to this and i want to make it clear this is only the people that are being offered this exemption who have been offered water meters from the department of water supply and are able to connect to the department's existing water system chil not be required to make further infrastructure improvements for fire protection under certain conditions when we last met on this matter we considered an earlier vision of this bill and we were all in agreement however after the meeting the fire department became concerned about some of the requested revisions after further study the department felt that it would not be safe to pass that particular bill the newer version of the bill before you incorporates your suggested revisions and includes other conditions for consideration i know some of our constituents have concerns about provisions in the bill related to fire protection lieutenant english kept in hockey and by the way kept in hockey is here with us this morning i want to thank him for participating in all the meetings we've had to along with lieutenant english they are here today to address the provisions in the bill but first let me explain that the updated fire code was recently passed and took effect on july first it is not available in the conic code yet however it is in ordinance four two three two and can be found on the county website under council ordinances if you are unable to find it please feel free to contact committee staff and they will help you for two days purposes copies of the bill and the fire code sections are available at the testimony table if you don't already have them we are going to be displaying the bill on the television screen as well as we discuss it i want to say first before we start that yes there are concerns and we've heard them we know that this is not a perfect bill but it is a start i hope that by the end of our discussion today you will have been serious to the concerns that you have raised and you feel more comfortable about what we have put before you and i want you to understand that it was not easy to get to where we are we argued and i wish you could have been party to all of that you know when we have staff meetings it's different then we have formal meetings here on the floor because we're with staff and we can call each other names and do whatever we need to do in order to get here and i want you to know there is a lot of course training that goes on remember the fire department is concerned about our safety they're concerned about and i am concerned and we're all concerned about the county's liability when we make exceptions to the fire code the water people are concerned about what they need to be concerned about making sure that we have enough water and we have budgets to take care of what we need to do and as a council member i'm very concerned about the people that are affected by the station and i want to make sure we give people an opportunity and it was said by one of the testifiers and i totally agree with him this is a small start and we can take care of everybody and said if i all the needs of the people on the water meter this is chairs recommendation that we try to help those who have been on this list for ever and who simply want one meter so that they can do something with their land that we try to take care of them first and we give them that opportunity to get a meter and yes there are others they want to build subdivisions they would people want to subdivide into dozens of lots and hundreds of lots but idea was we wanted to help with the small person first and so that's how this legislation is written and we're going to go through the bill and i'm going to ask the fire department if they could join us up here because they're really big players today and i will also before we start going through the bill and discussing it with the members please feel free to as we go to bill just raise your hand and let's get into it we'll go as we will try to discuss it as we go i'd like to ask what a director if he has any comments he'd like to make before we begin mr taylor thank you madam chair and i would just say that i agree with the chairs summary that this is primarily a fire protection bill most of what you see here that relates to the water department is just procedural when we go through the list how do we process these things the real guts of the bill why it's to law it's not three lots of these exemptions were really driven by the fire departments concerned about how do they guarantee public safety so what i would recommend is the real focus is really there are concerns most of the issues with the water department are just so that we know how to process things so i think this is again primarily a fire protection bill although it's in our section of the code and so i think they're really the major players into the guts of th being has the bill up on the screen there and i think that it is fairly simple i'm going to ask the members is there any need to  discuss the purpose or if you're ok with the purpose just move on everybody ok everybody ok ok well let's move on to the next thing this is where we get into it maracana code is amended by adding a new section to be appropriately designed and read as follows fourteen point one three point zero six five we added a new section exemptions from fire fire protection and main line infrastructure improvements and applicant on the priority to this whose application is being process because additional source has become available and whose premise is directly front the department's existing water system which has been determined adequate by the department to supply portable domestic and irrigation water demand to said premises shall not be required to make further infrastructure mainline improvements for fire protection provided that ok let's go a little bit more to do the first one number one in the case of a subdivision application the subdivision is a subdivision for only two lots or is amended to a stop division from two lots of i was going to ask the fire department if they would comment on how we got to two lots because originally the committee my come staff committee we wanted to do three but then we'd listen to the firemen and compromise is they we have to is better than none so fire department if you could please comment anymore so we decided to we were against the subdivision requirements totally but like i said we're trying to help people out so we look into the family subdivision and it's similar to us a regular subdivision on a family so the region you divide it up and you give your family member a piece of paper one state you say to build you you were required to do all the infrastructure up to code so there was no really break to do in a family subdivision it's only a paper subdivision or a fire call does a lot of four if you have only two buildings are access to th i want you to know that i fought hard for three but they didn't feel comfortable and so you know if you go into too much there's the potential for i mean for structures in a cottage a house in a cottage so we're you know they were reluctant to say well ok we can you know not require this low protection but when we got to six they thought it was kind of too much and of course i was trying to horse trade to get something and so we got to there with they're  feeling ok about it of course they would rather we didn't examine anybody because again their motivation is public safety why would it motivation is to help people build something ok let's to cut thank you madam chair name so it does so so if you sell it if you pass it on its head or etc the list runs with the t m k c so the t m case stays on the list regardless of the name ok and this is kind of a general here how many of the people on the list are for subdivisions versus for just hey this is my lot and i would like to build my first house on this l i don't know the breakdown of subdivision requests for says water service requests i prepared with that information any wild guess percent you know i know we fifty percent something i'm trying to figure out why i mean i know the department doesn't want any and we're kind of settling on two three used to be the number but if if folks put in a certain size sprinkler system with a certain size tank would that to help alleviate some of your concerns and allow that number to be bigger if we made that kind of a requirement or if they wanted to go to a third or fourth adopted fire code which is there any be it one two thousand and twelve allows for single family residence if you do sprinkler buildings you can reduce the fire floor by fifty percent and it states no less than five hundred gallons a minute so for agricultural right now is on it's always five hundred gallons a minute we cannot reduce that anymore for residential rule if you want to do a subdivision more into lots and you don't want to bring a large line inside you can sprinkler all the protection form water department it will go to our fire section sixty four c four sixty and in that section you are allowed to build up to a thousand square foot building want to be a utility or a home and not require fire protection so that is always going to hear a lot of talk about affordable housing a thousand square foot house should be affordable and we don't require any kind of our protection for that size of a building ok i guess i wasn't clear on my question if you have a sprinkler system that has a tank a certain size tank do you even need a fire flow or is there some magic number or size of tank that you would need any kind of fire flow because you've got it right there if you decide to use a fire sprinkler for your house and we prefer you tie into the county system because the sprinkler system is a more reliable system there are systems out there that you rea do thank in a pump the tank size for a sprinkler system is a ten minute duration run three hundred four hundred gun and think it's not a large tank with a pump ok so i guess the question is is if they brought if they brought their own fire suppression system what is the minimum requirement if they weren't on a county system because the county systems not have a big enough flow what is the minimum requirement tank size that you said three hundred or so gallons is ten minutes if they put a one thousand gallon tank in there would that satisfy you guys on your your concerns for the structure from if the if you use supplying the water for the sprinkler minute for ten minutes three hundred gallons and a pump and that's that will suffice to sprinkler system for the house only and that would then take away your requirement them being on the county system for building permits those permits rerouted to fire department and then you have a choice on their sixteen sixteen or four c four sixty eight go on site water tank which is going to be driven by the size of the home or install fire sprinklers or with you if you're within a five hundred feet of a fire hydrant you know you don't have to do anything right so long as a fire hydrant has the five hundred five hundred gallon flow or a thousand g if there's something that the homeowner can do if they wanted if they got their family their big family of six and want to make it six lots and get six meters and still do add the sprinkler system for the other lots can they do that without having to upgrade the infrastructure coming in and that's where i won't want to see what the concern was if they want if they want to go there is this bill is only for two lots or less why understand that to get at building that meter and that they want ok sure i'm sure you had that discussion for a long time and i just wanted to see if we if there was a way we could even come from ice further but ok thank you  member coach i think what you're trying to get to is if it's good enough for two subdivisions why not more and that the reasoning behind that  is density so if you are allowed to subdivided into more lots then we'll have the potential for more structures to be protected  and why doesn't sprinkler systems eliminate the need for a fire hydrants well sprinkler system designed for a home is thirteen the system and that's just designed to keep fires small and allow people to get out of the home ninety ninety percent of the time it'll put the fire out but it's just designed to keep fires small and so all if we have a lot of homes then if we have a fire in one home then we'll need fire protection to protect the other homes so we have a concern about the density of homes that need to be protected with minimal fire protection that or lack of fire protection they'll be put in and then also you have to protect from brush wasn't going to go anywhere because we have to be concerned about their concerns and they were we we don't want to create liability and while they were but he says we make policy yeah we can make policy but is it good policy so i figured a sm for our reference that you gave us yes in regards to the firing state fire code yes ok and the reason i gave you that was there was some concern i got a telephone call from somebody that looked in the county code and wished trying to very i guess the i hear the concerns but again i mean the bottom line is health and public safety of our community and to get the job done for people and it just and you know  dupont we hear a lot of the night he has a very unique concerns in regards to his location up up create a road and all that and you know we're just trying to take a chunk out of this meter list in this ongoing decade long decades long concern here and i just appreciate this discussion today so i don't have any hard hitting questions at this point i heard the department's  justification for two lots worse as three and really no at all and like you said this is something better than nothing and hopefully it will appease a lot of the community's concerns in family types of divisions that they would like to pursue in the future and i know we all support that but again it's going to be the job of fire to protect these homes if you know god forbid something occurs where their service is needed to reach th so i don't really have anything at this point share but looking forward to further discussion on the rest of the bill i think you very much miss cochran mr white and so my question can wait till later we're going further on ok no more than two lots i guess my comment is i i can appreciate your efforts to eliminate the obstacles that people are have been and are facing for many years so i think this is a good start and if if it provides the opportunity for affordable homes and you know you did mention one house one cottage you know and i know some people may be not going to want to stay in a cottage with rather in the house but it's a start i think because this is up positive move going forward i think people on the list skint truly appreciate that so thank you thank you chair for opening up the dialogue and thank you very much ms crow we're going to move on and look at the next thing here number two says in the case of a single water service request and this is you made a request and you're on the list and you ask for a single water service ok said requests shall not be allowed to be revised to or to large subdivision or otherwise so if you came in and said you wanted a single water service and now you heard about this and you want to go to a two lots of the vision that will not be allowed in this bill any questions anybody want to is just to be clear when we're talking about two lots right we're talking about one lat that either has or doesn't have a meter and so if it has a meter and a house on it then the end result would be one more structure and one more meter second least one more meter and one more lot coming not adding two lots to an existing  fire department you know but they're not they have our safety and i protection in mine and that's their job and and i can see situations in which the  may be large enough or the density isn't a concern but of the same time i think we're you know we're getting into a they were i would agree with do that one one bite at this point is is better than trying to figure out what size a lot makes the density acceptable to them so you know when i took over this committee i had this huge elephant right how do we solve the water problem and if you look at  that use want to run away because how are you going to get enough water for everybody how are you going to take care of everything you know people before us have spent much time in energy and they're hard trying to solve the problem and i know that i can't do that in the time do i have so i decided i try to bite at it in the bites and make little changes to try and help dead least this move and at least we would be accomplishing something while someone else is working on the big problems of how do we get more water and how to get more storage because really a lot of that is technical and money but you know the first thing the firemen told me when i brought this up the last time was give me two  of six men and you can build whatever but you know we don't have the money to do that when we look at a pump or we know what it cost and we look at two six six firemen crews and low so there's a cheap alternative somebody asked me this going to cost the company money i said no thank you and and one other question you know we're talking about fire phobia five hundred  just for clarity for people watching there are certainly can be places where somebody comes up on the list and there in front of an eight inch line that has plenty of g p m available s you really have to take this in small pieces otherwise you just don't move anywhere thank you ok let's move on number three the exemption from review for fire protection for the first and second welding unit as provided in section fourteen point zero four point zero two zero zero zero of this code shall not applied to premises that receive water service pursuant to this section their requirements for adequate fire protection for building permit applications for residential dwelling units and associated structures permitted in any zoning district listed in chapter nineteen of this code shall be reviewed administered and issued by the department of fire and public safety in accordance with section sixteen point zero four c point four six zero of this code however the exemptions contained in said section sixteen point zero four see point four six zero shall not apply ok fire department can you comment on this is where i got some concern from people who were looking for these sections and couldn't find them in the cold and we had to explain to them that it was the amended player code which is not in  before now it's over a thousand square feet used you have to provide one of these requirements sprinkler a home on site think if you're more than five hundred feet from a hydrant that was always in our calls since two thousand and six i believe the exemption be removed be exempted if you kept the exemption in and there is served by county water in this section doesn't doesn't apply there so we're to take that exemption at it again and wanting to make sure i'm clear yes miss cut i think it's fair and so this is for c like plantation estates that's not that's private water service gated community  but of course they need to build to standards and codes that you folks have over say on your side on this section of the call was in force on our air is not served by county water would it be on my line of sight on a private system we always imports this five hundred feet rule to a hydrant and if they don't have that five hundred feet rule they have the options of cedar sprinkling on site think county what i mean rules exempt them from fire protection for first the warnings so that's why we added that exemption in our new called but because of this new bill in front of us we wouldn't allowed it exemption because overnight well under for their requirements of section sixteen point zero four see point four seven zero subsection eighteen point four six of this code shall not appl to subdivisions that receive water service pursuant to this section ok so if you look at that stiction sixteen point zero four c forty seven zero you will see  the conditions that are in their questions any need for clarification from the fire department court originally we had thought about amending the fire code to include the exception and we said no this works easier and that's not mess around with the fire code ok all right moving on this making further infrastructure mainline improvements for fire protection shall not apply to any subsequent development of subdivision of or subdivision of any resulting parcels and any such subsequent development be subject to the requirements of section fourteen point zero five point zero nine zero of this code is that clear yes mr got just now go read ahead to moving on well i'm bring number six no remote meters shall be permitted and i have had lot of questions about remote meters so if someone from the department could please explain what that means  a meter is usually in the right of way the county right away fronting the property a remote meter is a meter that's further away so there's either private property or county property in between the meter and your property line where there's a line that the applicant would then own and there as to be an easement so just imagine that you know it could be a couple hundred meters or something like that so now there is a piece of paper from our meter or our service ends a privately owned piece of pipe through someone else's property to the applicant so we're saying in this case and those are there was approved only rarely if there is a special special need for it you know their land locked or something like that so we're saying that they can't comply with this by running a mile of line to a point out of course you know that's not what this is for this is meant for folks who have who are going to have a standard hook up where the line is in front of their house and they're putting a standard whereby the county line owner agrees one to accept such water service as the department is able to render existing facilities and execute a written release in favor of the colony for all claims on account of any any inadequacy in the county system or inadequacy of water supplied to the premises for fire protection and to that further subdivision requests for building permits for further development may require the installation of water system improvements such as water mains and fire hydrants for fire protection such agreement shall be recorded with the bureau of conveyances or the land court of the state and shall run with the land and on this released or cancelled by the county shell behind the owner of the law or lots and binding constitute notice to all subsequent grantees successor and other persons claiming any interest in the law or lots that's a lot of legally these and i want to tell you it's there to protect it we need that and that has been approved by our legal department ok any questions yes mr coach thank you so i know that we had talked about prior to this mr taylor that if there was not enough pressure this whole thing for the water system itself you know if you have too many fixtures or your line is too small and the next person on is going to bring everybody's pressure down in their home inside the home that that that instance they would need to put in new infrastructure anyway and it doesn't matter because the fire flow that makes sense i think to  get your point earlier on in this bill i think one of the first things it says is that this is just about fire flow and not i'm about domestic in landscaping capacity right so if we get to the next person on the list and we see the line isn't even adequate for regular domestic flow it doesn't even apply to them there they still have to do those upgrades ok so you have to do upgrades for your domestic flow it just says if you can meet domestic regular flow but not fire flow this applies to those applicants doesn't you a waiver from normal pressure and not affecting your neighbors for normal pressure it's just about fire flow so it's the in abuja of the county inadequacies in the county system for fire flow not for domestic pressure that's correct ok then this might be a question for a corporation counsel do we need to specify that here or because at the beginning it says this is just for fire flow  seven it does reference for protection want to have been working very very hard and you know we've we've been just asking them please please we need it we need it and we're trying to meet deadlines and they have really worked hard on it so i want to say thank you a lot of work nine but declined water service due to the inability to complete water service improvements may be eligible to be placed back on the priority list and at their prior number number one if said applicant is still the owner of the premises listed on their prior application to their application complies with section fourteen point thirteen point zero six five  be above such epic and she'll be notified in writing by certified mail return receipt requested at the address listed on the application the applicant shall be given sixty days from the date the certified mail was received by the applicant to complete and deliver to the department an application for water service or to reserve an allocation of water service in accordance with the department's established rules regulations and procedures they are to respond within sixty days or the return of the unsigned return receipt will be treated as a refusal of water service this of course was included in here because after our last meeting with the committee we had discussed it we agreed we wanted to be retroactive to that date and that is the date that was set questions miss the cut thank you that would go back to my first question i guess is well from a logistical practical standpoint i'm not sure how the department aware and do it i would imagine they would just look at the game case they were offered and most service also issue our department standpoint we don't like rejected lost you know we found out anything going back in time but we understand a committee so desires and wishes so we had to structure it such that  i'm guessing that the department can say look and see if there is a sale to somebody with a different name or whatever as opposed to the family just gets it in the in the will and what not that  department also had the concern that some of these people who were offered meters they just didn't reply didn't respond so we don't know whether to could afford it or not so that's another concern the engineers had but those are my comments ok we can come back to that ok ok any further questions about that if not we'll move on ok chair yes certainly i didn't intend for any changes i was just curious and how they ok well if we want to make a name we can do it i mean i'm fine you're not recommending that did you want to say something i would just ask for clarity on this from the council about what it is you're intending because that language is pretty clear that i mean from a practical standpoint this date because back about a year year and now i think there's probably about fifty people fifty applicants who said no so we're going to send fifty letters to the same names if it's the intention of the council if somebody says oh i'm not the owner anymore so and so is the owner we really need some clarity of are we supposed to accept the new owner or say sorry you sold it you're out i would just ask for absolute clarity on that question well members were you know it could be on to decide what you wanted to do so or even if i did sell it to my son for a dollar for a dollar that that is ok because it's part of the family and you know or i died in it i willed it to my family so i didn't matter who owns it it's to him kid is that what we're agreeing to members i want to be clear so that we do this and everybody is clear let's go to i don't think it's appropriate for safe for in this exemption i think this word set up are going to still be one of the premises listed on their prior application i understand the intent and agree with that intent so long it includes you know passing on and b was the one who had noticed previously and refuse service for whatever reasons and are you giving a chance to for b to take advantage of this and if the intent is to give a second chance my home and i'm number ten on the list to miss cavallo she's to now becomes number ten on that number ten all right well then then that makes sense then sorry that was my understanding but if there's objection about that we need to discuss it so it doesn't come up later and said you didn't think about that let's think about it now anybody anything else it to or left it to and if that's the case why not just change the language to still the owner or a direct family member i think there's a definition of direct family something having to with water about you know brother father sister etc i mean why not use that and say that's who it's for but if you said no you deny you said you're not interested in and sold it to somebody randomly it wouldn't apply to them i mean you could do that or you could just say get rid of this and say doesn't matter just goes to the same team k the current owner of the t m j i mean those are two choices but i think we should be clear which one it is ok mr christian and  just completely getting rid of it we want to remove it if we want to keep it goes with the d m k since the water meter list already goes with the d m k said applicant is still the owner of the premises listed on their pr application ok well i'm the one who applied i died i will go then to my son so no he owns it rule exists without this exemption new exemption that's ok if you sell it at that person still they hop scotching in front of the line that's that's that's the way the current rule exists oh that's  right and so we're going with the t m j on that there's no reason not to go with d m again this mistake i have to agree with chairman white that it probably makes most sense just use the current owner of the t m k from a practical standpoint this only started a year and a half ago there's only fifty i would be shocked if there's even four of these properties that have changed ownership right there probably aren't any you know so i think we're having a lot of discussion we're probably this doesn't situation doesn't even exist and if it does it's going to be one or two ok ok so we move number one i think it's time we need a water break so members everybody we're going to take a little break here try and get back on time please we try to do a ten minute break if we can and i'd appreciate your pro thank you very much this meeting is subtitle one title m c dash sixteen of the rules and regulations of the department of water supply company m a we know provisions contained in this chapter shell affect the rights privileges remedies requirements or duties of any applicant or the department in accordance with said chapter one who six that have accrued prior to the effective date of this chapter now we're adding further the council is aware that for many years this code has required water meter applicants to complete one or system improvements including fire protection improvements to their premises and or to the department's water system prior to the installation of a what it meter the council understands that such requirement cause considerable expense to some applicants who accepted that responsibility in exchange for water service to their premises however it is the council desired to move forward and eliminate obstacles for a country residence to receive water service therefore it is the council's expressed intent that nothing here in get raised to a cause of action against the company or the department for f reimbursement for past installed improvements or for loss of value to real property caused by any action or code requirements prior to the effective date of section fourteen point thirteen point zero six but of this of this code relating to the acceptance or refusal of water service from the department and to the requirement of the installation of water system improvement in section four is new material is underscored  questions in this section seeing none is there any question that you folks have in the entire bill what the chair is intend to do is is again we have received wonderful input today and i want to really thank my committee and i want to thank the testifiers who came today to share their monopoly we're going to take this bill back one more time and we're going to ask mr khushi to take another good look at it and  language there was a discussion about the team k s and those kinds of things and we will bring a final draft or a final proposal to you hopefully very soon and hopefully be ready for our next meeting as i want to get this out of committing so we can get it going through the process and get things moving for people as quickly as we can so that is what the chair would intend to do mr cut thank you madam chair i would like to see if there's any possibility we can put a sunset clause in this just in case or should i mean mr christie any comments i guess there is a sunset clause in the list is gone it's gone coats lastly i just would like to get kind of on the record so we passed this bill and somebody wants to come in and and they have a lot they want to subdivide to a second lot and they want to house in a cottage on each lot what are they going to be required to do from the fire department they're going to be required to have sprinklers because that exemption got removed i think are they going to be required to still have the fire hydrant and the fire flow because of all the exemptions and exceptions to exemptions and things like that what is the actual result of this bill it could in english if you could that number c there's there requirement of a minimum fire flow that you know ok so you've got to stand by there goes two hundred fifty this this new bill will allow she go ahead you're following up with that i was the coach and i were other members of to be clear this bill exempts the water department from imposing their fire protection requirements on permits then they would have to go to fire for fire protection right but i guess fire protection doesn't have a fire fire flow requirement or do that this is where i'm confused in the references to you know the new chapter they have their own requirements so they still have to meet those required to record because but they don't have to meet waters requirements as long as possible and any further questions ok members again like i said thank you very much for all the questions and for your input i think we're ready to work on a final bill that we will bring back to  you i'd like to think especially the water in the fire departments in the legal department they work really really hard with me on this and you know there is a real spirit of cooperation going as we're trying to find some of at least a little solutions to these problems that we've had a very long time so i'm extremely grateful for my staff and everybody who's worked so hard but i think we've discussed you know everything today and we're fairly comfortable i'd like to thank my