set of factual circumstances surrounding our operation it will continue sears will continue to engage in that aeration it has been subject to repeated citations in the past for not transaction and therefore no ability and the case was over a new one deals are supposed to be for final judgments and there's no judgment in place that says that you have to get these licenses are there was a ruling there's been no clear to our judgment that says that you have to get this license it seems to me that if you want to get a quote ruling that says that you should not have to get this license you should have filed third story judgment and i'm not so sure that this is in terms of following up on the justice comment we defile i think there tory judgment action that is pending and stated that the cities with the city's agreement so that we can get a resolution in the form that it is chosen which is administrative review  frankly our goal all along for the last five years has been to try to find some closure and some interpretation for our clients so that we do not continue to have to fight these in the administrative hearing center we need some clarity in the administrative law judge it in this case this ruling he cited in front of another administrative law judge just persuasive authority i'm sure he cited this persuasive it certainly would i mean and let me ask you this because again i don't know the answer finding and hearing center but if i could provide you with a little bit more background again all in connection with art and to get closure when we initially appealed it ministry to findings ups an administrative review the city this is all part of the record on we're not going to test those things and again we were stuck with a situation where we were getting no closer we then filed the administrative review complaint saying that we are we have no adequate remedy of law because of the circumstances to keep repeating themselves appeal the legal win or lose the deal cities not going to contest and we're back to square one and so what we're trying to do here after this time is truly to get some closure but secondly  i believe that the interpretation that we're seeking and the request for the interpretation we're seeking if nothing else and we do believe there's jurisdiction in our bill is relevant then necessary to considering the city's appeal because we take issue with the first and foremost or that first and foremost but is that it go through the list of reasons again the center patient is part parcel of the city's appeal and any change in the ordinance after june of two thousand and twelve is not relevant to that a very critical phrase i'm using the city's words and deeds in the business of is down on the city built much of their argument around the fact that well courts don't just look at the definition of home repair it's much more broader  elimination of that phrase the intent of the city council was to narrow the focus of installation and home repair to only comply with definition that is that the city points to that phrase it's critical that this court analysis parts so you have a little i want a little lie to the first part of the right one talks about what the repair is and it has a very specific list the city council went out of the way to be fairly detailed and explicit and contrary to the administrative office finding that also contrary to the circuit court judges fine ending there with outlines a list of things that are included home repair it does not say sale or performing any work or labor in connection with installation really means especially when you look at in conjunction with a we're talking about work and labor performed at the site and at the residence how do we know that  the term home repair whose construction insulation that dot dot dot and other improvements to structures within a residence or up in the land adjacent there too clearly the focus is on the residence this is the court is inclined that relate to home repair but again are consistent with the fact that when we're talking about employ says we're talking about stuff occurring at the site and at the residence that's in contrast to the city's reference to other ordinances which reflects what home repair is and what home repair is not again they go to great lengths that the exceptions and there are some are contained in section b below that so the egg connection with the installation language is not things that are home repair but we're going to create exceptions to that group and into that exception it's just not home repair the exceptions are things that are home repair whatever form by people in their own houses and things like that so we respectfully believe that the the city's reasoning and interpretation in this regard it is overly creative at the very least ambiguous and that the plain reading of the ordinance forth our position that issue your goal is to prevent them finding then you're required to have this license the court's order and then in on all this on the sign nov one thousand nine hundred the findings decisions and court's legal interpretation of the home repair definition we filed a motion asking for that legal interpretation and the circuit court of fully considered it and he came down against us and only after that in our opinion the ronis legal prosecutions and in the absence of any binding authority of that we are not engaged in the business of home repair what you define you declare to rejection actually we've got a case here where any finding that was adverse has been the first who drafted this but he signed it paragraph two says the court denies syria's most reconsider because the benefits that syria's receives as a result of facilitating the installation of a top water heaters and accept think payments for senate is fallacio gauging in the business a home here and the city has taken their phrase out of the ordinance tell me why your appeal is not looked i believe that and if you're considering the transcript as well as in the parts and we need to make sure it was supposed to be fit into both but they need to be viewed in conjunction with one another so yes we the sale facilitating is not in that part of the definition that lays out what home repair is right please the court jonathan buyer for the city of chicago but just to touch on the issue of who knows which seems to be the primary focus here today although we believe at the time we filed our initial brief that there was a slender very slender very my understanding per violation ok so forty five hundred off across so so now that you agree that the sears is appeal is moot the only reason this case is here today is forty five hundred dollars right can you guys can you which which is a as the court observes as it was a much greater concern of this affects every business in the city chicago how they were going to fight but that has become that became moved ok we'll see we'll see what happens if we ordinance by the repeal ordinance should be interpreted the way they insist they do not address the language they just say actual installation actual transactions necessary and we need we would again insist that that effectively waves this argument on that requirement isn't refers to home repair which is defined in elsewhere in the organs which is given a very particular definition as well as a number of exceptions that take certain specific conduct out of the we're not know that the the record here shows that sears performed extensive work or labor aside from the installation of the actual installation they say arranged for they were compiled  database of independent contractor formal repairs they collect the money for the areas they advertise home repairs they there are signs in their store saying we you know let's see your do this for you with things along that line but you have now is that  let me ask you this then why doesn't that apply here if there's an installation by an independent contractor who has a license and you're going to argue with them maybe they need to see why would an other license be required to se it's not necessarily just the license the license requirement as well component of what someone is required to do retaining a license to some is one of what someone is required to do with the gate business but as we know in every there are a number of other requirements that are triggered by engaging in the business  significant in this respect would be the insurance requirement undergo under settled illinois law sears is required sears can be helped liable if they are negligent in some sense in selecting it had a contractor ends but that person for you don't have to go to sears to get the house water heater you could just go to you know somebody's house and then they would have their license and it would be three hundred thousand so you're saying that somebody who goes to sears should get more protection than somebody and well as to the it sorry it didn't they didn't the administration say we're trying to lessen the the amount of licenses that are required throughout the city because we're trying to purge business we're trying to help businesses now what  said when they put these put these are in sr oh i understood it was to reduce the number of licenses and to make hopefully make it with the licensing scheme more easily accessible right so why are you fighting so hard for this forty five hundred  speaking to the ordinance which has sears and the city both persuasive that they we do not believe that those hurt by this or hearing officers especially in circumstances like this in which it's so much application of the law to the fact that it was very much turned on what the particular individual just just to quickly touch on the in connection with requirement as as i mentioned earlier that as serious to see it in their opening brief but then since just as of selves from that this is an exception it's an exception to the broad not what sears does here sears offered its own evidence in the record explaining the great lakes they go to to facilitate to encourage customers to install so what are yours to who they think is  and a major corporation at loggerheads as to what their perspective conduct should be and declaratory judgment that the that the clear terry judgment vehicle is designed to look  at what someone should be doing in order to avoid liability correct to the extent that there's something in the record that the facts standing which i don't just i do not want to make any representations that may concede standing there that we don't know yet thousand and eleven warning they order is not say any of your other orders or the for the reasons of the transcripts reflected on the transcript or vacated and if you focus on paragraph one the driver does say to clarify the written order of september night the court determines the plaintiff's yours is required to hold a home repair license for the offering for offering facilitate the installation of water and accepting aim at least as it relates to old ordinance or the question on the new wards i mean if the those you have to get you know well i guess i guess if we said that that even under the old  elimination of the phrase engaged in the business of home repair is supportive of our interpretation of the definition of over here that's the way she thought let me ask you this i helpful for you with in the future but isn't there some statutory construction law that says that legislatures don't act for no reason and you know when we you've said today that when the when the city council took up the phrase engaged in the business of but they narrow the number of businesses that have to give us life and that's good for you would be supportive of the city's interpretation of home the final two points in terms of binding the binding nature of the administrative findings i see we would have even if it wasn't to start that information provided in the us then the first place which which as we said which was we are using he component of the present billing to choose how much they're paying whether they're going to pay for someone in charge of the additional money beyond the installation if it's fifty it would be the most specific things that the customer is being hear profit off of this work there is a lot a great deal of effort here it acquired it arranging for the over this is compiling of a large database of independent contractors could not have been a you know something that