terminated the minors attorney is arguing that this is the best interest the child not to be with the parent the parents are you mad it is in their best interest to remain with them or if the issue is real progress that they've made visible progress or not being reasonable you're going was arguing that it is in the best and should the child stay with this mother does it matter what position you take or does it matter that they cannot work present to position i think it matters that they cannot represent two positions i people who appear on their behalf and point or represent themselves as guardian ad light on some measure of the records really clear and i guess i don't know if it matters in the sense that they're still putting forth their arguments to the court is to their position for the trial but isn't there a difference between a lawyer and i'm going to find a yes there there is but i believe that whether they're the attorney or the guardian ad litum that they're still advocating for indigent and says i'm quoting you counsel this is your attorney this person comes up to her and says i'm your turn and that means something in our legal system and we don't know what discussions were held off the record which they discussed before they approached the bench and supposed to this court we can't try you can't make any determinations when i'm supposed to do that we're supposed to look at the record is it exists and right now we don't have any information about what happened outside of the str that it rises to that level because of the nature of what representation by an attorney means in our legal system and that privilege that attorney client privilege is another issue  we say yes to whatever the judge asks you with respect to your rights that you understand and go see an investigator later which do you assume well i don't know if we can assume one or the other i would hope that he would talk with his clien county has within the public defender's office three different conflicts divisions and that the court appoints a person from each competition to represent the different parties in the case  i would say that mr hoon in the sense that he should know which case that is being called and we represented on that case it may be difficult for the court to keep track defendants and i guess i would just say that it's such an important issue i don't know if it doesn't bode some as she what the remedy is i'm not arguing that the public defender office can't represent each some high priority in these types of cases finality on behalf of the miners no matter how we are hung on and if if we accept your position this is us it's almost start over do we have she would do we have an obligation to wait this priority that's been set on the best interest of the child against this what appears on this record i why it's necessary to expedite these cases but you also have to balance that with people's fundamental rights and there's a fundamental liberty that parents have a right to parent their child and it's such an important issue and to terminate someone's rights is extreme and i think even if you do everything properly to protect that right for that person so in this case i would say that if it does have to start any of the trial proceedings itself sophia ready for any remedy that the respondent would be asking for didn't taint some of the proceedings themselves they maintained the introduction of evidence they had nothing to do with the substantive result in any of the proceedings goes more rectums your question though is i think if you look at the personal conflict of interest rule what it's designed to prevent all or situation sixth amendment situations where you have a prosecuting attorney and if a person or an attorney consult with one party and then represents the other side the party with whom the attorney first consulted can demand the withdrawal or the discharge were how does he put the china wall up until he will now be gee you know judge wink wink nod nod this is what i think and it's not based on anything i learned as a result of representing another of his ideas the only thing that i have difficulty with  representing my son he was appointed to represent her ma'am this is your attorney and there's a difference because i'm not saying every time you step off you know  on behalf of of up a fellow in your office he said because someone said i was not here today since i was on vacation so and so had a personal problem judge we need a date that's not the same thing as representing a client think there's nothing in the record that would show that's what happened here if there was i'd be much more amenable to your position because you keep calling it stepping up you may step back when you represent a judge i'd be happy to do the order you know when you feel you wish to be done yes or whatever here's the order yes not representing the client that's really stepping up to your fellow worker who we don't know that that's what happened here so you don't see as she is being different make a few brief comments and damn answering questions you may have but i just believe that that it is more than just stepping up like you just stated i think that we don't know what happened if you met with her in the hallway sitting next to the person in court scrutinize cases care more carefully then because i don't think in the private counsel i don't think a private counsel would have come in on both sides on this case and i think that the importance of having an