malls so it's hard for me to see why it isn't the same conspiracy moving in different locations with different members at the same basic conspiracy a ten year period to shatter you're exactly right with respect the pain of being at the center of the pain of being the one the one constant throughout all but but but i like to think of conspiracy is just a dream so after a minute as i get into i'll go to the stop and shop and buy some bread then i go to a liquor store it's three different sets of agreements it's i have one agreeing with stop and shop i have an agreement with wal mart and i have another agreement with the liquor store and you're right there is this what the prosecution has done here is they've taken pina and they've taken every example of drug thing that he's taken over the course of five or six years in different districts involving different people and and  law the prosecutor can get up in final argument and say any anybody who whom has presented any do you really think judge zawia slee i don't expect your opinions of my questions this is a rhetorical question do you really think that the prosecutor persisted in the injury evidence concerning each of those twenty people i mean the watermelons he i don't know i don't have the grand jury transcripts but you really think that the prosecutor presented that evidence about twenty and and that areas the various activities that occurred here have to necessarily put in you're asking for ready for more proof or evidence that's not necessarily relevant to the unknown to the grand jury or someone who's that there's been evidence presented against them in the grand jury but you don't really know the grand jury doesn't really know the identity i don't think across new evidence could be could be in the grand jury could be  guatemalans was presented i mean there were there were a significant amount of line of yours as you pointed out earlier that this is a plain error situation and wasn't brought to the attention of the district judge all of these so called problems that you  and the suppliers are always the same yeah i guess if there is that there is some some weight to that but when i ask you how to do is to compare the conspiracy at the end with the conspiracy at the beginning at the beginning man species that i say exist they're also just so so so different that that that that they really are different conspiracies again you're right i did the defense did not request a multiple single e the evidence the trial established that he pena participated in and one continuing ongoing conspiracy where he was the central figure hub of the conspiracy and there was one central purpose to distribute heroin for profit in addition there was no where either plan or otherwise with the district court's instructions accordingly the district court's judgment should be affirmed with regard to you familiar with  this case i didn't see it cited in your brief that was a case in which there was a hub consisting of one conspirator and that had then dealt with other individuals that was that a single conspiracy because each time he dealt with someone else that the guy who was at the center used time he dealt with somebody else and it was a transaction  nobody else was involved in and therefore there were multiple conspiracies so one person can be if one person is the hub and you have a spoke wheeled conspiracy then you have multiple conspiracies explanation here but i would say here there were common threads that were constant throughout the entirety of the conspiracy one was that there was one central purpose for the conspiracy which we had to distribute heroin for profit two that there  central figure in the middle of the conspiracy at all d times and that was eddie pena and he was the leader of this conspiracy and then three there were a core operations that remained constant throughout the entirety of the conspiracy some of these included that pena was obtaining wholesale quantities of heroin from his guatemalan source of supply in rhode island to that he used the phone to arrange heroin transactions with his customers or his dealers or distributors and three that he use other people such as jacob menna michael luciana and others to distribute heroin on his behalf so the core elements of this conspiracy remain the same throughout the entirety of the period moreover where there were a evolution or a shifting of operations such as a shifting of locations it was always at the direction of any pena and usually it was because of law enforcement activity and any pena's concern about being detected in apprehended by law enforcement and so like any business he had to adjust his business with the times so that he could effectively operate is business with in this case was illegal heroin trafficking and so when you so  based on that the government would respectfully submit that this case there was no surprise in this case the defense knew the conspiracy that was charged in the indictment was provided with discovery in advance there was never any claim at trial that the defense was surprised in any way the fence was provided with the grand jury transcripts then it's a grand jury evidence regarding the entire five year period it was evidence it was a presentation i was consistent with the trial evidence it might not have included all the details of the trial evidence but certainly the evidence exhibits that were introduced the testimony that was a listen was all consistent with what was disclosed pretrial  us involved a fragile guy who are contacted a barrios a lenders and who are seeking to get insurance and they you conspired with them to submit false information to the overarching conspiracy you're on to the cardiac ghost case sounds like it might be more like a scenario where you have a bunch of buyer seller situations and any pain you know is just making sales to end users that have no connections to each other and this case at the pena had sure gets who is basically handling the day to day operations of his business when he was in florida mainly jawan new yes and his sister gladys pena he had jacob men  throughout who was involved in the processing and a distribution of heroin to various dealers we have michael luciana who initially started as a coke as as a purchaser or a customer who is obtaining wholesale quantities of heroin from eddie pena but then he transitioned into this arrangement where michael lucianne zero said hey i have a bunch of street dealers in the new london area who could buy and sell gram quantities of heroin and be on your behalf and we could make a substantial amount of profits and that's sort of the evolution of this conspiracy where you have these middlemen who are working in a collaborative way with eddie pena and who knew other people who are members of this conspiracy are part of the spokes housing and kayakers was the main developer and he would build the houses and he'd sell them and he would get a lender and a corrupt lender so that was a conspiracy to go to to submit false information to the federal housing authority and each one of those little smoke smokes involved a corrupt lender and he was giving supplying the false information and then they were made the point certainly in other cases that made the point that if county october's had a partner and there were two of them doing it then you'd have a you'd have a you'd have an agreement between them and you could have different  heroin trafficking conspiracy that spanned approximately five years and involve them multiple locations further the evidence or the record establishes that there was no error in the district court's instructions or the plan or otherwise accordingly the government respectfully we just because that they're all guatemala doesn't mean that they're a constant throughout the course of this because there are so many they can because this is i think i think my brother is right that this isn't exactly that was the same conspiracy that going on all along but now in just a different location now wasn't can i don't interrupt wasn't the same conspiracy very beginning his minute doesn't get involved spira see until it's until it's it's well on its way maybe not really involved from the beginning but whatever he got involved in at least at that point there was a conspiracy between man and and and penya and then that that conspiracy  d it didn't but but in any event it was the same operation just moving to different places with different characters that everything you're saying is true except the conclusion i mean i true but they're getting involved with totally different people now it's a three way split of the it's a three way split of the of the proceeds that's not so new conspiracy that's an opportunity and why why can a conspiracy between two people expanded to add more members without changing the fact that it was the it was it was because it was the same conspiracy you have a saying to my goodness that's a question that should have been that the jury should have sided rather than my having to argue it on