evening i'm charles clarke chair of the planning board welcome to the tuesday november nd two thousand and eighteen meeting of the planning board i call the meeting to order before i give you the agenda let me introduce the members of the planning board schedule had continued public hearings for twenty two hosting road and seventy five letters street we're going to continue both of those public hearings we think we need a little bit more time to  for twenty two hold road talk with the applicant about some issues that we have with with the project as proposed and for seventy five w committee regarding a climate action road map that will be followed by our discussion of potential zoning amendments that may or may not be be brought to town meeting in the spring and they would involve mclain we really square inclusionary zoning in the single residence be district i'll be followed by a discussion of potential cases and what's happening with the planning board and then there'll be some pinkerton to be our representative to discuss changes in the in the application for twenty years to hold the road as a representative of the planning board together with community development to discuss steve at this point now we'll continue the public hearing until december th or do you want to talk about anything else jeffrey as you take a motion yeah i know you know nothing else no ok move to continue the hearing until  what is it december th i nd all in favor so the public hearings continue to that point we now open the public hearing for seventy five leonard street our issue with with this project is that because of town meeting and other things we didn't have time to actually take a look at the impact other than the one sign in place of putting a number of blade signs on downtown belmont and it will affect all the l b one districts and what we do in terms of sitting president for that so they're agreeable on this and i suggest we need more time to take a look at that the  great job and they've taken a look at concord and what the blade situation is there it's included in our packets is that available online jeffery that that power point presentation yeah friday and also i was telling steve over the weekend i was reading bill mckibben is article in the most recent new yorker and i said you know you're great on time or you're right on topic yeah  people are going to going to be hearing a lot from the energy committee and not just in the next year but i think over the next few years on a variety of things that we think need to be done and i think the planning board can and hopefully will be a part of helping them to move forward with the achieving the road map or following the road map on how to achieve the climate action and goals what you're going to hear tonight is going to largely be a recap of what i said to town meeting but then there are some specific asked that i have at the end for the planning boards input and involvement as people are aware are hopefully aware back in two thousand and nine at a special town meeting the town meeting adopted the town's climate action plan and in that class climate action plan there was a specific goal established that called for the town of dhamma not the town as a town called for the community of belmont to achieve an eighty percent reduction in carbon emissions by the year two thousand and fifty and as the action step toward pursuing that the resolution that was adopted by town meeting called for the board of selectmen to appoint an energy committee and to charge the energy committee with a facilitating achievement of that town meeting here here and there but we've the energy committee but also we the community of belmont having gauged and a variety of activities and pursuit of achieving an eighty percent reduction  school received and an energy rating of better homes belmont was one of our st public campaign staff one of the st public campaigns by the energy committee over a three year period the energy committee promoted in partnership with light people pursuing an energy audit for their homes and you might remember i didn't go back and look at my less but you might remember that period where the energy committee with light took thermal images of every home in belmont and put them online and you could access the thermal image of your t a record for the commonwealth of massachusetts of the number of people who called and requested mask save energy audits nearly forty percent of the community  request in mass save energy audits and not only did we set a record for the number of people who requested energy audits but we also set a record for the percentage of people receiving energy audits who actually followed through and had their homes weatherized after having received an energy audit that's called a take up rate and nearly thirty percent and sometimes i think why am i happy because only only thirty percent but the fact is that thirty percent of the people who were audited followed through and had their homes weatherize because they had seen the  the the implementation of the of the bell might go solar my campaign you might remember that we after an r f p process we hired or entered into an agreement with direct energy solar direct energy solar provided now might residents with a thirty percent discount off of rooftop solar units and when you come back behind that thirty percent discount from the energy and that w i mean they were making money off of us and i i don't what they were doing that's for the good of the world they were making money and they were using the might go solar as a sales people basically  but combining the thirty percent discount with the federal tax credit with the state tax credit with credits provided by utilities called as truck solar renewable energy credits a yet purchased your electric vehicles by the time for the last couple of years now two years the energy committee has been working with interested volunteers  more like three vehicles that any other single zip code in the commonwealth of massachusetts so the point of all of that is not to brag about my committee but rather because it's not simply my committee it's the community about not that has a deep interest in pursuing the the climate action goal that town meeting adopted the problem it has is that not withstanding all of those successes when the energy committee did an emissions inventory updated the emissions inventory in two thousand and sixteen what we found was that for the st time ever the emissions in belmont is declining that's the good news the bad news is that the rate of decline is not sufficient to meet the goal of eighty percent reduction and fifty and that's somewhat depressing because we set i read i'm just stuck operate successful programs but we operated six more successful programs than anybody else has  town so the all the efforts directed toward municipal energy savings even if we were extraordinarily successful with that you'll see that the municipal savings are a tiny portion of the total savings we need to address residential emissions and there are two sources within the residential emissions that two sources of emissions that we really need to to address one is vehicles the the far by by a large marson margin emissions from vehicles are the largest source of carbon emissions in the town of dhamma and if we don't address the carbon that's being spewed out of our vehicles we're never going to hit our eighty percent reduction by two thousand and fifty and the nd source not achieving substantial emissions reductions from home heating systems we're not going to be able to achieve the eighty percent reduction by tw what that tells us is that we need to not simply play by the old rules of the game and the and do everything better in a it tells us that we need to change the the rules of the game that so long as people are using natural gas heating systems they're going to be emitting carbon into the atmosphere and we need to move home heating systems to an emission free source of heating and there's a way to do that the way to do that is through what we've called a strategic electrification strategic electrification involves st moving the  the source of electric generation for light to being emission free and bama it is fully onboard with this school to being one hundred percent one hundred percent emission free now my plate is fully onboard with them next year belmont white predicts that fifty percent of its electric generation will be mission free and the energy committee has encouraged them to set a goal of being one hundred percent emission free by the year two thousand and twenty two it is only through the making them out light one hundred percent emissions free they have the strategic and strategic elected elect i'll get that our strategic electrification will work strategic electrification involves three different things for the town of belmont number one is that we've set a goal of having fifty percent of newly purchased electric vehicles in the town of them not being electric vehicles by the year two thousand and thirty that is slightly more aggressive than what is currently projected for the u s as a whole for the u s as a whole we the u s is on track to achieve a fifty percent penetration of new vehicle purchases being electric vehicles by two thousand and thirty three we believe the sense we're working is that we set a goal of having fifty percent of new heating systems for homes that are currently heated by a few oil to be instead heated by  electric heat pumps by the year two thousand and twenty five and that is substantially more aggressive and the national trend the national trend at this point is to have a few oil with it is now providing significant incentives for people to replace their heat pumps with it to replace their few oil heating systems with  finally the goal that we've set is to replace natural gas heating systems with electric heat pumps fifty percent of the new nat replacements for natural gas heating sets sims would be replaced with electric heating pumps and that is directly on track with the national trend at the current trams that nationally new natural gas that new replacements for current natural gas systems will reach fifty percent by that that same year and we've set the down might go equal to the national goal  simply because we believe that oil replacing fuel heating and replacing automobiles with electric vehicles are more important and we will be put really energy committee will be putting our efforts one big thing that we would ask in addition to we would ask your support for the resolution which will come before kerry meeting this spring to endorse the road map need we need to address our our building stock every time somebody replaces a natural gas heating system with a new natural gas heating system even if it's the most even if it's the most efficient system that exists they've locked in a certain level of the missions for the next twenty or thirty or forty years every time somebody purchases  a new car that it's not an electric vehicle people of locked in the emissions from that automobile for the next eleven years the average lifespan of an automobile in belmont is eleven years by the way with an efficient natural gas heating system that is actually contrary to the climate action plan because that it's unlocking a man a certain level of the measurements for the life convene a group of people from various committees around town with including the energy committee the planning board the traffic advisory committee that the housing trust to go through future i haven't even started doing yes but this is only by law could include incentives for people to move to electric heat pumps there are i will forever call it a christian village back when not a christian village was permitted you know we all felt wonderful when we got two or three electric charging stations in the parking well moving forward having two or three charging stations and a development like that just doesn't happen because if people can't bring their at their automobiles to where they live and plug needs to be addressed is solar readiness we don't know where the energy committee is not going to ask the town about and i'm not sure the town would approve anyway but nobody is proposing to force people to put  solar panels on their homes that that's would be sort of a silly requirement not every home merits a solar panels but every home that's newly built in belmont should be would ask of the planning board it is well there are two ways we can proceed this there are probably multiple ways but one is we could ask the planning board to drive a process or to initiate a process that would call for this multi committee work group to go through the planning board with the focus of climate change here i saw your your agenda for tonight it's sort of hard to imagine you adding yet another thing on to your work plan or the energy committee could drive that process and simply have participation in the planning board is one of the necessary stakeholders but we would like to go through to take a i don't know if you take a year or eighteen months it's not a month could and should be done to or with the zoning but so with that let me out let me stop for a minute and see if you have questions get feedback on this notion of going through the zoning by law with for know with no other focus than a focus on how does this affect whether or how quickly we achieve our climate action goals i think that that's where we we have occasion to you work together in the future thank you thank you very much as interesting a presentation i mean and as  i as i mentioned to you earlier it particularly apropos with the with the climate change announcement by the government on black black friday and as i said the bill mckibben article on the shrinking planet say we'd like to be involved in this but i think i'd like to hear what other people have to say but i think our involvement would be sort of we would plan and then once this is approved but tell meeting we have discussions on how to go forward does that make sense it yes i'm always i'm i'm concerned well we want to play anymore boards involvement should just stop there but i'm concerned i didn't even tonight your st two actions put more work on you and more work on you so i would be concerned about saying about the light department how soon do you expect that they'll have a demonstration program of towards him he made making pumps having people could walk in and say this is what i'm about to buy a new furnace tell me about the heat pump how soon do you think that could be available that's part of the the state grant that that they have applied for i mean it's one reason that gum out residents are buying electric vehicles because you can go to the belmont high parking lot on any number of saturdays and climb into an electric vehicle way and drive and drive and so we've applied for money too to have a heat pump the equivalent of dumb i go so campaign and there's actually a resident who works with utilities up and down the eastern seaboard i'm not developing that don't need to be immediately replaced you can have hybrid kind of things we'll you'll keep your oil and you'll have that around when you need to have that on and he pumps will work the rest of the time and you can do your conditioning and all that i mean i know that i was in vermont two or three years ago when they were developing about a thirty unit apartment complex new construction leads t certified very tight the whole thing and they had split that systems for for each of the things i say him at the time i said can you can you actually do this in burlington vermont and he said yes yes  and there's actually the groton in in groton they're heating their age v a c systems which are set up for the individual sixty units that they have there are all  i'm really excited about this i think there are some could do you know how i mean that's sort of a limited tool if you are willing to get into lighter more efficient develop development over a certain size ensuring it's read before or better i mean i think there needs to be some mattrick garage and as my wife we're about to replace our garage and we had our contractor out and i said when we replace our garage i want an electric hookup that is sufficient to handle and evy charging station and our contractor said yeah you don't want that that but the thing is that if we build a new gracia and don't put that hook up in at the time  building that nobody's going to go back and retrofit it after the fact or if they do the cost go well so that's that's where we need to do something and i don't know what to do something is i don't know what the something is yet but time when people make those decisions they're baking in emissions for not for years but for decades  and i work in cambridge and our projects have to be solar ready i mean we have to demonstrate it even though we don't necessarily need to do it by yes everything because sometimes your work you have to do a scientific term yeah yeah they're saving a lot of money by millions of dollars by moving to a net zero and there is a meeting that i'm not part of but later this week between the architect for the d p w and play station and some of the energy folks that were involved with the net zero energy to talk about the d p w and in the police station but that's where we come back to we can do that but this this is municipal emissions and this is residential  so and he pumped technologies have been fiddling with that for thirty five years trying to get it right and there are benefits just tremendous advances in the technology  it does have its limitations i have two questions one or two concerns the one hundred percent acquisition  really credits right i mean this is not business the way it's going to be achieved yes exactly so so it's in a sense it's it's it's a shell game in a way i mean there's an x amount of emission free energy out there and belmont electric is going to go aggressively after getting credit for some of that and having it apply but in fact the electrons that are coming here are going to be a mixture of emission free and not so emission free and so realistically every kilowatt that you burn is going to have some component of right of carbon coming out i mean that the credit is for emission free but there's only so much emission free energy to go around so we really have to think in terms of what's our regional carbon footprint on electricity per kilowatt hour kilowatt hour so that's that skews things a little bit i mean we can't claim that every electron that we use in belmont is a mission free it's yeah it's once in a lifetime goes into the wire heaven only knows where it is likely so that the point is that that percent in your calculations it makes me nervous that we're going to call that all emission free when it really it isn't i mean it's not it's not carbon free it's because we're relying on a grid that's not carbon free so there's a little bit of truth telling in this and i'm not saying that that this is deceptive i'm just saying that we need to understand realistically that it's going to take more than just getting credit for emission free energy we need to be working globally to try to get more solar out there and more wind out there and example solar or for wind and for every kilowatt of wind capacity that you put out there you've got to back it up with essentially the same amount of kilowatts generating capacity because the sun goes down and until we get the battery technology yes so there's another whole piece to this puzzle which is the storage piece and i'm there with you i mean i'm not trying to i'm just trying to just get yes sort of a perspective this is the nd observation is that we went through this  solar campaign and my phone didn't stop ringing for two years during this whole thing i mean it was just constant people trying to sell me solar i have an east west facing roof and i have four very large trees around and i would say that people and say please take me off your list and the next night i'm back i notice that there are a lot of houses that got solar in belmont that are east west facing and have i mean this one right up the street from me that has a big pine tree that's an evergreen trees and yeah in the back side of the house and i mean it's just all very interesting but there's that there's an educational component because to this and it's and so we're i'm kind of heading is that this is very focused on one or two specific solutions but of course there's a whole basket of things that still needs to be done in the world and i think we need to acknowledge that as we go forward that people shouldn't quit insulating their homes and that we are living with an existing housing stock sort of checks all the new houses and we don't build new houses and all mine i mean we retrofit and we renovate but there's an awful lot of existing older stock that is going to be complicated to director fit in and i would wager that there are well i don't have a basis to say more than not that there are not a few pete dominick residents elbow in the garage i don't need a special charging station and the complication would i'd like to get it up to two hundred and forty volt system but my panel is completely maxed out so now if i'm going to do this you're right there's going to be a finally coming for some but i just over time you you get a sort of a realistic attitude about things this is why i quit quit doing it because all the kids that i was mentoring that i was bombing them out because i was being so negative about what you could accomplish anyway  utilities generating as well so that it's good for that system you know it's good for belmont electric to be aggressive anyway after the wrecks i mean that's a great contribution in its own right it's just that when we go then to counter sue against our goal that's where i think there's some fuzzy math going on there because if it you know we were directly not using emission free electricity would buying it but we're doesn't what if they buy the racks and we hire does r step away from the global you step away from the regional kind of picture if you just take a look at how can belmont itself be you know reduce carbon emissions that's what this is about right right ok that's terms of equity is that belmont benefits from all of these things because we're in a fluent community people can afford even with this concept by electric cars they can afford just to to put split the systems on to supplement things and all that so we need to keep that in mind yes as well you're right about the light department when we put the st one machine out at all at the high school the st proposal when we did the feasibility study and the municipal life plan director didn't believe in it yet was this weird faith based electrical generation approach and you know we had to wait for him to retire before that machine and the st you know there and then they think but they're going around too slow right that they can be doing anything did they look like they go very slowly thank you thank you and you would look for i think what a novel notion that multiple useful committees would work together and interest from mclean to move forward with development on zones three at this point i think they're changing their concept from the congregat care community to something more like the woodlands they will be coming out and making presentations to town and to the planing board about conceptual plans and some ideas for what they're going to do in terms of that that will be on our agenda we we believe from the indications that we've gotten that there will have to be some changes in the zoning that's in place at this point  that'll be some be something going forward in my own just standing is that they would like to come that we may do something on this for the mate town meeting but it's at a very beginning point at this time there are also some rumblings that they would like to do something for a zone for as well but that's i think that's a little further away but we'll wait for them to come to us and make a formal presentation to the town and to the public so that's that's something that we will be working on for a town meeting and we'll talk about the process at is the board do you want to think about this and talk about it the next let me let me think about and talk about it the next ok if you think it would probably be useful to do the subcommittee working with you and spencer to provide some initial initial square zoning we've looked at for quite a while we just rezoned south part of south pleasant street the waverly square district in our mind begins at the at where the shots parking lot hits pleasant street and come straight down in to waverly square there has been looking at this you looked at this initially with sanderson last year and i that this is a complicated this is a complicated zoning issue that has to do with develop ability of the sites and it's not only zoning but there are issues of parking in other things  there where we are on this i don't think we can go to me to meeting on this i think this is a year away what's your sense and what you think we have to do some serious thinking about yeah i agree so i think that's going to that will probably turn or i mean that's a continuing thing that i have my eye on and you have your eye on i think where your way so i think we're town fault tell meeting on that at least we'd also like to see what happens on the south pleasant street area and how that affects things and also just code jo used buildings that are going in the king parcel off to hell road and street and i think those will give us a good indication of what the market is in that area and that will inform us in our planning  in mentions several times that there are some issues that when the inclusionary zoning was put in place was that five years ago or so that there are a couple issues that they wanted to revisit in terms of that  they haven't come to us yet with specific proposals on that and i i would suggest and we'll reach out to them to let them formulate what they want to talk about on that and come back to us and then we can see how that fits into our agenda on things and let's just let's just talk about the single residen our point of view that the the wider we see the support that's coming to us in terms of the letter that would be better and we would we be more than happy to talk about that and see if we can move forward in terms of that depending on what the support is the community on that so that's just sort of overview of things when i talk about anything in detail do you want to give us jeffrey an overview of what our timing it was as you suggest which this is the crucial thing and this is why some things we're putting a little bit aside ok assuming we have a that basically means that we have to have a bought a draft by law by january th this is for any item that we take up at this point so by which means that there are actually four that's  may be great i know some of the folks are currently present to actually have them come back for actually a public discussion with the board at the board's next meeting to begin talking about what they perceive the issues are now where they would like to be looked at similarly what you've done with what happened in journalism since it was and see that the proponents of those bylaws came forward and said these are what we think the issues are and in the process of the board looking at it he either said yes that yes that the issue or and also for other issues came up that maybe  as well so given that short time frame it would be i would are i would like the court to ask them to come back on december th at the board's next meeting to begin the conversation  what the issues are and how you think we may be able to address them what you would like to see us do and we can figure out a way if it's possible for us to address those i know mr pinkerton has some thoughts on this which we can talk at that time does that seem reasonable well not for me personally ok because i will be out of the country on the th ok so it would be better for me if you were able to do it with the following evening and it would on the th and tell us what the problems are and what they would like us to to to help us with to help them with ok get up in typically the way the board works is that it will be a continual i don't on the agenda so that while big part of conversation that ok so if we can have representatives of the group and jeffrey will reach out to come and come to the table and talk to us about this on the th visit the th or th and i don't know if you befits enough time but yeah i guess it helps from our point of view that we can see the depth of the community interest and concern in this so so we've got what you're getting getting through all of that the due diligence of looking at what the construction history has been and inviting in and demonstrating a broad interest the st zoning article goes we're basically wanting to say instead of single residency zoning districts we want to say single residence b and c only districts and that's pretty much the change in it up just trying to be clear well it seems i'm not going to get  i'm not willing to give an answer up to a problem that i hasn't been defined yet i say yeah he's jeffries also not too sure if it is a pluggable directly because he hasn't looked at it yet yet i we don't want to get ahead of ourselves right ok we don't want to get ahead of ourselves that's why i don't want to argue substance at this point right that's why it's so important here we can meet the concerns of a neighborhood are and yeah work ok so we've then we get the concerns and we can figure out this today is process ok so we begin taking a look at it on the th correct and jeff is going to have some time before then to take a look at the zoning into and to be able to answer questions their work i remember now i'm going to do just getting back up to speed again i didn't really to pass up this time but they threw out it's the form based zoning the advantage is that you throw out some of the things like f a r and some a lot size and you don't worry about so much about that because you have you're looking at the neighborhood closely and you're actually zoning to what's in the beginning to go in terms of this ok so let's move to updating potential cases and playing board projects do we have cases you want to talk about for us or do you want to talk about the gay keeping process well the still it's it will be be at the same time as the police station but the project itself is more an internal project right with a very small edition of the break so therefore then if it doesn't achieve it doesn't  what's going on ok so we haven't seen right exactly shingles yet so busy the two big issues with the white trim and the red shingles plus the accessible to the public so the quote and i'm was trying to schedule something for this saturday my thinking being if it gets to further out in december people are going to be where would they put it that he's not good at not here ok well i also think on that a public viewing of it in c two is great and we also before we voted all that we need to permit this is when i wanted the white board because i was going to show the process i was actually i haven't taught in a long time and i was actually going to get up and teach but one of the one of the issues that that happens is when somebody comes they want to build a large addition on their house they get denied by the zoning it comes for a special permit it comes to the community planning and the process you tend to see that when they're making a public presentation of that but there's been a lot of work that happened before that they've been denied it goes to community planning they talk about their project their community planning which is jeffrey and spencer talk with the applicants and give them  direction for what the playing board wants to see in terms of project what works in terms of size and other things and they listen in they don't and in cases where we have and they're included in the documents  that that we have in terms of a couple of projects that have come forward is that the applicants sometimes believe that it's better for them to go for the full playing board and go through the full process many times then to listen to what the professional planners have to say that somehow we have more weight than them they have more expertise than we do they understand what what the zoning means and what the playing board generally has a concept of what they want to do and they should be gatekeepers in this when they don't do that we end up having the situation where we're doing all the sausage making all at once where we're slaughtering the pig and we're making the sausage all at the same time and sometimes that's too much both for the playing board and for the applicant so our suggestion we've talked about about this is we think once they've gone through an initial process with with community development and they have a sense of what they want to do that a representative of the planning board should meet with community development and with the applicant and to talk about what works and what doesn't work in terms of projects one of the main things that becomes an issue in terms of us is size and mass not so much the architectural things that can be an issue sometimes not so much the land is gaping issues but basically the impact of a large project is going to have on a discreet neighborhood that's what our concern is and size bug height and mass are the issues and those are the issues that need to be addressed upfront and they should be in a range of what would generally be acceptable to the planning board before there is the full public hearing on that rather than do interation after interation and take up  a lot of time and energy for the applicant and for their architects so are our thought is we need to give a little bit more guidance and it'll be done in a public way will as we've done in the anybody can come to it if they want and then we'll go we'll go forward on that and i think there will streamline the work of the playing board and i also think it'll it'll make it a better outcome for the applicant jeffrey if you get comments on that yeah i think that would work really well because the way that we've structured the office is that we have a pretty meeting you know explain the process a lot of times people don't want to necessarily apply once they with the process or they redo their whole project so that they can do something easy or whatever but what we say is before they submit their final application that to submit a draft to us and we will pick the draft apart men give back its version to the applicant and then make the changes and your way at all what we want to be at that point is we was we want to be present there and make them aware of what the processes at this point and what what will generally work and so they're trying to and it's it's an aged infrastructure over there so they need to work so it's it's a matter of trying to figure out how we can work this in this year so that it's coming forward with some really really interesting stuff that's great i should say that the p q project which i go to every day and it's seven hundred and thirty and it is is great when the grass grows it'll be even better it's a little bit muddy now but it looks great and it's wonderful that we have the community preservation act money to do these these are long looking at verses about the impact of the committee and they're starting to look at some ideas we didn't look at any at the last meeting but they have ideas about dropoff areas  what we're going to see this week is their construction playing because that's going to have the immediate impact of the traffic because you won't be able you'll only be able to access from one side the public anyway while they're building the st phase and then they'll build the nd things you'll have the access to the high school be different so essentially for four years or five years we won't have the final condition sort of a straight hybrid and when when it comes the next time we'll ask him for the so call i don't burn and it's not necessarily meant that's why i said bare bones because it's not meant to be necessarily it's more of a formatting conversation it's more of a ensuring that similar words are used throughout for example we say inspector building the building inspector and building commissioner and it's all the same person but it's all different stated do we have to go before town yes but it's also not necessarily the probably having been through it as a sort of member of the by the review committee working with the committee as well as working with the company that we have chosen the did all the general by law stuff it was palpable i mean it wasn't a huge amount of  research and they can add a lot to it in the end the reason that i would i keep coming back to fold one is that i have been carrying over this money and i have and it was going to get you a lot more eight years ago no i think it's about six thousand seven hundred dollars that's sitting out there now which would get you either a phase one or overview or whatever you want to talk to them about if you're interested in using it and but more importantly when i look at the analytics for the general bylaws and i do that quite frequently people are looking in the general bylaws for items that are in those owning they're looking for fences they're looking for sheds they're looking for lot lines they wished that they had an easy way to find the stuff in their hauling my office all the time and we refer them over or we say hey go on the web site oh no we can't just do a global search yeah you have to know that you're looking in the sciences and the definitions and the and so it it is not consumer use of committee members residents developers lawyers need a way to get into what you're doing so that they're not going to be calling all the time imagine twenty percent how much of your time to spending answering those kinds of calls from people who aren't actually do a lot of that sort of basic research themselves so there is more than just sort of reorganizing to make it look pretty it's to make it usable for people so they can then ask interpretive questions and that's really what you that's the skill you want to it off and it's certain times everyone could contribute a lot and other times no but the company that we chose in there they busy send you a list of questions and they give you four alternatives having to do with each question ok and you check off in them in the mean you discuss it most of the time we agreed all of us yes let's check we like section two or number three or no four and then there's a small section the eight thousand and twenty rule certainly applied to say gee this leak needs a little bit more work  when they this company general code is the name of the company had initially looked at our zoning bylaws as part of our general be looked at both the general and his auto and they had some items to immediately check off the low hanging fruit derivative tables that they will develop this is it used to be known as one six point two point one and now it's known as this you know and it's it's just sort of a leap into the future who said let's let's let the townspeople get the expertise and pay for them to do things that are you know using their expertise rather than just answering the kind of broke questions that if this is a hurdle for that i would recommend that you consider it and you may want to just decide to have a conversation about it we can talk about another time but i think since i carry it in my budget at this point i will be carrying it on beyond this year unless i see some commitment or action i'll just give it back and what's easy enough for me to do my my comment is because i look at a lot of the zoning all the time different places when it's when it's easy and straightforward it's really nice when it's not it's not so i'd like about how to pursue it what it would take we should sit down with you all and a couple of you one of you whatever and then ask the company to give you a current bid on what yes they would do and lay out the procedure then what level of involvement you expect to have in that and you know over three years and you can also talk to other towns with the plane boards that have done this with this company and understand what you get them to i mean they do it and it would be radically they could use the same company even though we've used it for general or general bylaws there's no obligation you know where the bathrooms are mean yeah yeah and it was the original entity but i mean they could potentially come in and even do the presentation about what they offer have that's a good idea but we have yes we have and i think it is i think when my sense is that when people hear the word wee codification they think of a major you know real i'm sorry yeah that what what might happen is so if the end goal being to make it searchable so if you search shared and all of sudden five things come up in each one of them so something different obviously that's something that needs to be fixed so that's what you've overcome over the hurdle even getting it searchable that's when you can really get it down and dirty of you know what the bylaws say ok