you for that twenty minute presentation you gave on january twenty third it was excellent it was the best present ation i have seen anywhere thank you and i agree with you one hundred percent thank you for that and it i want to start by reading off something that i wrote for the press and i want to finish up with the thing i said there must be some legal challenge against pennsylvania ho bill nine hundred fifty for the past several seven or several years communities all across pennsylvania have written ordinances with the limited power given to them by the one nine hundred eighty four oil and gas act to protect their citizens from natural gas  g operations by the method of unconventional high pressure slick water hydraulic fracturing thousands of individuals and communities have signed leases with the knowledge that their local gas drilling ordinances would protect them however since legislation since legislators passed house bill nine hundred fifty the parameters under which these leases were signed have changed lease holders are not able to terminate leases that they signed under the old parameters and equivalent example would be is if you have an electrician to rewire your entire house when he left you just got word that the same electrician removed your plumbing a new law which did not exist when you were originally signed the contract with the electrician gave him the right to remove your plumbing regardless of your previous legal agreement i let it peters township washington county pennsylvania and our local co passed a conditional use of drilling ordinance zoning gas drilling in our entire single family residential e zine region this ordinance required that the sites operate exclusively within a forty acre within drilling to start parameters as a result the forty acres that were required for drill site have now been reduced to four acres for if the gas industry puts a drill  behind your house you cannot contest this decision with the local council it will be out of their hands what happened to the past legal precedence what happened when the supreme court case huntley huntley versus the borough council of the borough of a march which ruled that quote and this apology has the power to designate zoning districts where oil and gas wells can be permitted are prohibited i have the link for that and also this ruling gives governments some powers to quote restrict natural gas drilling as they deem necessary in order to protect the public health safety and welfare in athens all of the locally signers have no recourse if they do not want their land used to following the parameters of this new law burning bodies from each county across pennsylvania need to join together and find a legal challenge to house bill nine hundred fifty the legislators who pass this bill are not representing their constituents interest neither are the members of peace that support stands for pennsylvania state association of township supervisors supervisors who should have fought against house bill nine hundred fifty however i stood behind peters township council in their decision to oppose house bill nine hundred fifty and encourage them now to join referendum that we put on the ballot but according to the attorneys of southwest's house and i quote house bill nine hundred fifty does not nala fi the pittsburgh ordinance the state college home rule charter amendment which is what we did or the community build rights ordinances banning fracking in other communities they are not zoning or land use ordinances but civil rights ordinances neoliberal rights such as the rights to community self government and the right to clean air clean water and a healthy environment thank you very much please if you if there is any initiative out there any legal challenge that we can join up with i i strongly encourage this council and we at least i will have your back thank you are with you would like to know  senators twenty five legislators then and fortunately our valley yes that's another story but the the defect of the matter is that the day that the voting was occurring i mean i was on the phone all day with people while they were on the floor as were many many other people at the past and you know that that's the we are i met what's today monday i met last thursday w i understand with that the point is there is it is unconscionably all of that they should you know preempt our zoning laws we we don't see eye to eye on exactly how they should happen but i mean but the fact of the matter is we that we do have to have zoning authority and we're going to work on trying to get in fac and shane are one two three robin who had lain mcmurry ph it's good to be back i had to take two months off coming to the meetings because of a very very ill kitty it's now doing well so i feel safe to leave  t i also want to commend mr bob for his twenty minute video that he did i think also that it spelled out things very clearly and i do hope people watch it and absorb the information in it because we are all in this together and we do need to do whatever we can to right the wrongs that we can write and i also want to say that you know whenever things like this get passed there are things that we can do and it may not be to change the law but we as a community can do things and i've always stood up here in the best interest of the community concerning our health in our environment and i'm ready to do that again  you know still wanting to do air quality testing so that we get some kind of a baseline so that we can determine at a later time if journalling does get pursued in a car in our township w be able to have some kind of leg to stand on so i am still trying to pursue that i guess i'm going to have to go buy my own canisters because i can't find anybody to give any because they're all being used up also i think that members of our group i can't necessarily speak for them but i feel that they stand ready willing and able to help counsel in any tasks that you may have in getting the word to the public to do whatever they need to do to help tighten up whatever pressure you need to apply on governor corbett and his administration and also the legislators i feel too and i know i don't say this to want to upset you but i state again because we never know what will come down the pike ok and as far as the public lands go more than ever now we must not ever think of signing those up because that will just help to connect the dots more for the gas industry and i feel that you cannot succumb to any pressures that you may get in the future down the road with any kind of deals or stipulations they would want to engage in with you concerning any dr and basically saying that they are directing them to work out something with clarity and i did speak with sam harper at the d p to see if there was anything that we c that they have legal grounds to pursue the plant process and and i think one of things are going to be looking at this evening is whether or not they should appeal to the environmental hearing board  overturn the regional offices decision might my my guess is that i mean i don't see a quick resolution to this one and one of the issues where there is an issue with where the piece creek interceptor meets declared in municipal plant and there's a list station and the capacity isn't there and so and in wet weather you do have over floods and so they're using that as a reason to deny is a stream in danger and they haven't done a t m d l study to determine what level should be done there and so they're saying that they want to prove destroyed in fact they're also saying that even with the cl did if i could give you a little bit of information and first of all let me say that i'm extremely sympathetic to the situation because the majority of the developmental area that's activists in the wards that i represent and i've talked to the board about this and mr sylvester gave you a good overview of some of the information but there's a few other complicated issues that being that peter's creek is really an authority that's made up of four townships so it's not just peter's creek it's union knowing him and family and then the other issue is that as a board they have a fiduciary responsibility to do the best thing for the residents and what they were told by based on the potential rate increases that could possibly travel for the residents in that area they looked at alternatives and one of the alternatives was the idea of doing a plant now the bottom line is that that was the responsibility that they had to have and they looked at whether or not the cost of doing that would be equivalent to what they would be expected to pay for a plant declared municipal authority would expand and which they have no ability to control or direct peter sprigg sanitary and i may be have sound like i'm defending them i believe they're doing what they were supposed to and they are actively trying to find alternatives they thought truly that they had a very viable solution the issue with the correct creek whichever way you want to say it street shorting they really feel that what they're trying to do would in fact enhance it peters creek sanitary has a history of removing i and i of managing infrastructure of doing all the right things and the rates that we pay right now are lower than many of the other municipalities but this was something that they needed to pursue because for the long term for the residents who are going to be faced with this they thought that was a solution so as mr sylvester he said they're talking to d p again they're deciding whether they're going to appeal it and they're trying to go forward with a plan that from a residence perspective the people who after all build these great houses are going to live here that they can support their arguments to them selves and i'm that doesn't solve the problem i apologize i just want to give you a little bit more of a context just just in conclusion and this is not against us but i guess the communication either from peter's creek case has not been good i mean this this thing happened or was eighteen months ago or whatever what i reference it's been a ticking time bomb i mean in it they knew this was coming and you know here tax the builders the developers and the school board definitely they're the ones that need the monitor that spent over a million dollars and put astroturf on a great school which doesn't make any sense and bad sign of things  people's careers away from them i mean you can't you can't have lanny making payments to the bank on an and leave it for five years and not do anything on it you know your pain like ted tell your pain taxes on the lots your pain if you have any houses you're paying on those you know you're paying on the vacant land continuing with in separate that most developers have a bank payment every month and the bank will not care we're working on it we're going to look into it which is kind of what we get it petersburg so it is serious it is important i know it's important for the for this township because the tax dollars are coming from it especially for the school system so if there's any pressure you guys can put one step up i think i think it's got to the point on the game plan for where this is going but we needed influence exerting influence i guess in the process to a greater degree moving out into one judicial business which i created i prepared to draft ordinances one that would increase the board from five to seven members and the other one would add an alternate position to the alternate position would be a very member whenever there is  i don't know that having two more members would be the solution i think the alternate would be my opinion the better solution we know that applicants are still hot interested seemed to me they were over complicating it because we sure don't need to increase the size of the cable board because there are no requirements interactivity is slow down in the last few years versus what it was when i was initially started but my my position discussion i think that last time when we started on this we had each candidate was nominated and we all agree that they would both be good i agree that mrs so caskey has devoted a tremendous amount of time public hearing council had to comment in opposition to it but one from an adjacent nearly adjacent property and one from someone that was a little bit further away and the  concerns that they raised words were noise issues it was as i said in my report council please to look at this from the standpoint it isn't zoning change to see to and not specifically for this  there's squaring off what the property that's adjacent to it coming into the cemetery property then coming back down making the property deeper it is taking property that currently is not taxable ministry i find this one to be less concern because of its position and i guess at the same point in time my preference is to support the planning commission which spend a lot more time dealing with the there is a viable concern it's not a to for resounding for speculative my sense i think we should ask planning to address the lighting and sound issues noise issues but this is probably one of the last onerous section drops down on nineteen so it's lower zero next is the discussion of the tuscany final plan which we see looking forward to the day but first the first thing that on the agenda mr lewis's  serving this property here and the loss of service property here so the lower right is the other property that appears township sanitary referenced in their recommendation it's not clear to me as far as peter's touchup sanitary authority i think based on what they're recommending or why they have proved what they proved is that they're trying to maximize the potential for further development on that court or hill it didn't make any sense why they weren't following the correct than we would have we would like to see risk go through just didn't seem to make any sense i didn't understand it fast the senatorial senator authority several times why or that i that i get is it just because it can be done this way that way my brother it's going to go within thirty twenty twenty something maybe thirty feet of my brother's house it is not it's not a matter of i don't care if it goes around but it seems to me if it's going around our property why isn't it deep enough that my brother's house and the dome house and the homes on the corner of just about  and a trail they can't get into it in the story zone rule you know laws say that it should when a main is put in like that it should start as much as possible and it just doesn't seem to low side and he would actually have to pump up into it now several times i've been saying it was said to me well nobody's taking anything away from us and they're not i understand that there's nothing really being taken away from me we be happy to answer that if i could my name is steven victor from victor right so let's see it's we've been working with mr hoskins for several years now to try to come up with an appropriate design not only for onsite but off site as well dealing with the sanitary sewer and during that period for several years we negotiated with the simmons to have a right of way to come up through that area it is through their requests for financial reimbursements that were so excessive that forced us to go an alternative way it is somewhat surprising that they're standing here today several years down the road and saying oh you're blocking his from the sewers which is totally not the truth they have stopped us from taking it right up through the valley because they wanted to see a huge financial reimbursement for having a right of way to their property now as we said we have not blocked them in any way because they can go to the end of the line right now and when they want to develop their property extend the sanitary sewer up the creek and when they do that we have already put in place a sanitary sewer easement on our property that follows the creek so when that act when that finally takes place that sewer won't be obstructed by us because we will have already put in the easement through our property the reason the pipe changes size from ten engine to eight inches because we are not following the creek and instead had to go around it and come up on just about that you have a smaller watershed area that you can serve again it wasn't because of us it was because how we were blocked by the simmons inability to do so so an eight inch line is more than adequate to serve the smaller watershed area basically it's going to be the hoskins property the eddie homes property and then several  houses along just about and then a few of the homes off to the right there is neither on snyder it can be serviced not the snyder just about intersection because that drops down but the sewer line can go through the eighty homes property to reach some of the upper regions of snyder property so again it's going to be a smaller watershed with hindsight one could look at it and say boy this really is silly why are we coming up the valley well we're coming up just about because of the actions of the simmons's over the last few years to incinerate question yes or can i just clarify one thing you and explained why you kind of cross the road they ate lunch line versus the tenants line and maybe it's a peters township sanitary question if they wanted to extend that if the rest of the people from the lower part of snyder road or anyone the on that wanted to tap him with a how would that capacity that eight inch line hold  inch line has capacity of somewhere between eight hundred thousand and eighty years households that's not going to really as i don't ever see that ever be and have a shoot with in that area how they physically could do that was if they could  have to put a pump in because just about road right it where we're stopping the wind and it serves at ease in ourselves then drops back down to the snyder intersections and so it's not possible  said it talked about how his brother can tap into it without a put the line in deeper well there is only a certain point at which you can go deep with the sewer and there are legs of it that were some legs that were up to twenty feet deep so you know you can't really put those don't line in any deeper than what it is i was just trying to understand because i've spoken to people at the bottom of snyder road and then a lot of people in that area do have online systems and were looking to potentially hoping for the opportunity but it seems like it's not quite there it'll serve some but not all the thanks this i think we should deal with for sure deal with the truth this year  future some future cost there is some or some problem that seems simple we use millions of gallons of water in those greenhouses that are there we have sixty thousand square foot a green house there we use literally millions of gallons of water with everybody always says well sourced coming through it's only going to make you money increases the value of your property x so on and so forth not necessarily when you already have an operating business there it is we are going to definitely increase our cocks so this outraged a lot of money that they were mentioning here that are saying this is opinion total pain thank you for the reasonably believe it to be outrageous was that it was doubled the cost of taking it up just about road it would have cost us three hundred thousand dollars to go through the seventy property and half that amount to go up just about so there'd been a few bucks more fine we could work it out but when they're asking us to pay them three hundred thousand dollars  the very top one to prove wills approved what we did and we're also servicing all the houses on the other side everybody's already signed on to have houses across the street that septic systems are leaking in their yards they're all going to tie on to this new store and even the people in snyder if they really wanted to win any develops they could pump up to that sewer and it's like that it's the so the do so really services a lot of people and it's not you know we're college is no no an extension you know i mean when you're when you're you just run through the slides or a quick trick show you this is the property along just about road you can see the long haul of sac going back in there that was all part of a preliminary plan approval of the road alignment then the gradi the lock configuration is identical to what we had for the preliminary plan next site but we've added in refinement for the final plan is some of the detail and at the entrance to prepare the landscaping plan at the top there showing our entrance coming off of just about road and then we're showing what our fencing in piers would look like along just about road at that interests point next to shows the general character along the street scape and some of the internal trees that would be created as part of it preserved next game just taking us back to the end of the call to sack along the way there various points of where we have traffic cal takes us around the farm perimeter that we have we're proposing that there would be a decision history planted thirty feet on saturday the full length around the farm in activity and shrubs would be planted ten next this shows the general character of that planting with the deciduous trees planted thirty feet on center and there are red and green which show a mix of tropics to be planted along the whole area of when we first looked at the landscaping of this it turned out to dig interior trees that were preserved through the development would give us credit that we wouldn't have to plant any trees at all and all we would have to do is plant shrubbery all the way around meeting with the staff and in the planning commission has determined that it would it would be a good compromise to have at least some trees on there so we went back and added the trees slightly reduce the number is permanent i don't know if you can recall that when we were here and asked for the modification we made a presentation showing sort of the street pattern for the overall neighborhood and sort of explain why the extension of the cul de sac at that point would not be needed or reasonable so that's why we had the singular connection off to the left for the required planting by any trees that you're able to preserve on the property and there are areas you can see the bright green areas internal to the plan that are all preserved so taking credit for all of those allowed us to say we don't need a plant any trees at all so instead we went back and look at it and said ok let's plant trees thirty feet on center and there it literally doubled the cost of our buffering requirements but i felt that that was a good compromise so it's a combination of the shrubs and trees you know mr victor i understand what the tree credit involves now mr sylvester did send us a copy of that but the truth of the matter is is mr simmons comment was the fact that he has a working business there it's a farm that very expensive homes are going to be backing up to and the concern was related to the noise the potential chemicals and potential danger and someone a child or someone came through the property line so and i appreciate you get the treat credits but i think from a logical perspective you know i can understand why there are some requests for some sort of a box forms and we know we had years ago there was a question from the people on park avenue about the backup alarms that the public works building well the public works building was first you know you move then you deal with what's there i appreciate what you're saying but i can i can understand why mr simmons recommends that i would think as a homeowner i wouldn't necessarily want to be exposed to that well i think first what is it in your discussion about what the buffer is recall that we are going to have a fence going around the perimeter so if anyone does have family or friends they will know where the border is and so they'll be fenced in if you would in my case i know that so because the way the reading written information is it says wrote home owners will be required to install a fence it's not the developer putting in the fence my correct that's correct i'm ok with that except that if this is a homeowners association that needs to be told in the beginning  do so but that i think you can see that effectiveness of that if you just go a little further down just about road where there's a now there's a pretty significant develop that i have the white vinyl sent to and i think that eventually solution i was just commenting but i do have a question and it's out there for three credit things so does our planning department go out and identify those is that how the number of credits is determined  if any of those trees fail in that buffer area either during the course of construction or so now what happens then do they have to give back a credit plan another tree  know if there was one that died or whatever it was you know wouldn't changes wouldn't throw us below the game and put us into a failure so far beyond it but the intent is that they would be a continuous planting  i have one other comment about the height that the homeowners are going to be expected to maintain on certain life can you talk about that a little bit the what there are certain logs that this storm sewers are going to have to be if i understand this correctly maintained by the homeowners is that what you and mr sylvester the because i wrote that i was a certain look there to lot at the end there will be a private storm sewer that runs there's water coming off the simmons farm here that just sheet flows across to it it's not any public water that's being created this there's a pipe going to be here that's going to be maintained by these two property owners and it's labeled as private i'm just one last thing mr ellis i apologize you have one line that does not go on to the main road in the light is considered part of your plan but it goes on to just about the entrance that's correct the reason for that right and in that area right there is where the house would be maybe some i don't ever recall a plan where that occurred but probably some of the other people have was just a clarification out why that wasn't required to tell into the yet it's because of the e p a s strong restrictions are against stream encroachments these days so when you have an alternative access such as we have here the e p a would not give us a stream crossing  four there is a stream crossing here that day and to minimize it it's a shared stream crossing so there's actually a driveway that comes across and goes back to those two lots in that particular instance where getting a permit to do a stream crossing because there's no other means by which to access it here so the alternative plan says that's the only way you can do it who's responsible to maintain that access those two lots those two lots they have a shared driveway and now they'll be mutually responsible for its maintenance the reason i'm asking a lot of questions is because councils  buffer is required between a single family and an adjoining farm and just to read the what the focal point of the buffers is to minimize potential physical and visual conflicts between uses buffer areas shall be provided in certain situations for shall be required in conjunction with the development of any lots and you use a table when it's single family adjoining a form is a buffer or a type of buffer a twenty five feet wide and the trees are supposed to be planted ten feet apart they're going thirty and the shrubs are supposed to be five they're going eight and again i understand part of why they h i was told all the way through that there was nothing that could be done because there were you know because of this new poll that they found her but i'm just wondering if it's funny you mentioned about the caucus actually did come in for a depart i think you called it a departure or something for that and i know whenever i came for grants or whatever everybody made sure everything was just right to get that variance and i'm just wondering why couldn't of that have been a requirement of the variance that you know that buffer was going to be done the way the book says to provide you know for future conflicts between the homeowner and us farming hedge and a hedge would make and i can assure you on other places where houses come up to our farm just a little bit of light you know where there really didn't don't have a buffer with anything planted in it but it grows up you know which grow it's grown in and it does make a huge difference it makes a big difference between our farming practices and these residential homes i really wish there could be a really good buffer there i think the buffer should be the way the book says it is the pointer they get credit for not only preserving trees the buffers which is the trees that are in the buffer here they get credit for the trees that the preserve shrubs and i can and own people build i mean they always add more landscaping to that also so and i'm not so sure now what so sure in the way the buffers is the way it's written it's actually going to give you privacy that quickly i mean it's going to take fifteen years or whatever for those trees to grow to where they would go and actually do something he made the case for one tree you know what if you i think if you drive going to have our neighborhoods that i do you will see that we always we always exceed i mean i like trees i mean i think if you look at my development i'm kind of the guy who plan for the capital to the program for the traffic in fact we so to preserve the funding that has been obtained so far a new schedule and revised plan needs to be submitted non members who are in the build a real estate developer area which is acquired by the act and we'd like to get this done with and i know we are currently  were asking for permission to proceed to start from a period of three years when he is back to you when it's the end of three years and you're backing up for the time for meetings and organizing all that this august august twenty two of you made a point of saying trans has done most of the work did they give you a breakdown of why it's ten thousand dollars i twenty days to amend our ordinance to come into conformance with what is required by that bill again i a it is they say it's not ramrodded through i still think that it's a basically they're more interested in the fees than they are with the impact on the townships but be that as it may the question before us is ok so what do we do and in conversation in some in detail and find out what collectively they believe it says that we need to change because i'm a little clearer i'm not sure anybody is really clear on it right at this point in time but initially review see what we  options you know one speaker after speaker got up on the floor of the house and said we're not taking any away from anything away from the townships of everything they can do right now on the m p c they can do under this will match nice except the m p c doesn't tell what the problems were with this and and the governor called governor polish sat there and looked at us and said yes i understand i think he does get it but unfortunately i don't know where that went you know it's like  so i mean if we want to maintain our rates to joan we need to fight this because this is and this is in reference to her merrily drilling now what happens next happens next you know if it's ok for the gas industry to do this what industry next comes in and says hey you gave these guys a pass why not us you know what if the one of the home builders association comes in and says hey you know these guys don't have to follow your zoning and these guys don't have to follow your zone and why are you making us do what we do and i don't think there's an answer for that so i think we need to we really need to get  one other issue with this if i might in this is primarily for our friends in the media that we talked to piece this on so many specific occasions about what the problem was with this we told them what preemption was we told them what this would do to us they were clueless to begin with that argument leave since it directly represent us and they deny that they issued any kind of a letter supporting this legislation and people people get up and say then what is this letter you know and it's it was a little thing like well i think this is a probably a fairly good deal so you know weasel words of this and then said the same thing that they're very happy with what went on you know with it with their legislation and a number of legislators and took that and said will take it piece that she was happy with it why should we have a problem with it and these ash there is a group of about i don't know i can't even count and i keep getting the emails from them but there's probably going to guess sixty or seventy five different areas represented on hand and what our intention is know i think that they need to be in i'm pointing out that we did get second place from p c s in the popular annual report competitions which mr larissa primary author of eventually of completing the project in the first one that that we would like to start is installing the sidewalk i guess would be from rock run through proper rows to the  their building frontage they're allowed to have a two hundred sixty square foot something this sign the side that they're proposing one two three don't even equal half of that amount so  commission felt that you know instead of a two hundred sixty foot sign across this whole facade they thought this looks nicer on the basis of a square foot we just saw the front we go out and then the services of those two services that we would be looking at one is the the bomb advisor and the other one is the best solution for the is is there any you know i like the idea of competitive bidding i is there any better advantage we could get if we actually looked at getting it done from six years is there a potential for that at all in the rates  refinance or for a shorter period to try to get it to a shorter period would there be any advantage to that i mean i don't want to create more work but if that would be  your seen it where people start and they see this car coming in they think they're bearing right to go up and then they go straight and that is another issue i thought that's what you were talking it's actually people coming