family means different things in different cultures and i referred to my family's house as really my grandparents house and pennsylvania i mean but we don't know whether he lived in the house but i don't think that it's going to make a difference when we're on the other but in any event willing once to to respond to the government's request for a redetermination issue and i'm just wondering why you couldn't a filed a motion to reopen at that level and if you have a design a failure to exhaust it's not a lo office and i happen to have this one and i didn't want to pass up the opportunity purely for this court and do the argument so first of all i'd like to address the question of the court has my recollection the record is that we've been when said that he did live in the house that he and his parents and i think one of the stanley lived in either the front of the back of the house and then his brother in law and his wife and their one or two children lived in the other this is a little different from the other cases that were before the court this morning because here's a case where other b i aced it said ok we're going to accept everything that the asylum applicant says in the testimony before the immigration judge  true and we say even accepting it as true we find that he doesn't qualify as a refugee under the statute because he he well for a number of reasons but basically because there's no other resistance  point of the testimony that i see attempts to kill basically saying he's protecting his family and his own property and saying as to his brother probably says hey take it just wait for him to come back and take it so he's really that's little sni testimony shows me that he's really protecting of property interests and he's not expressing some political view on the population control policies of the government he's saying hey you my brothers proper you take it but this is my family's property you can't take this but then when they persist i guess in taking some of the property that he persists that he believes this is family property that's when the author casement takes place yeah but then what happened after the confrontation well they came when they hit me you cannot get involved and so then they came by to arrest what happened after you were here as well the officer came over to arrest me they now i was not arrest why not he ran away he slipped out the back of the house when he found out that they were going to call for the police to come and arrest him but the government's position that he was that they called the police because he half an hour and then were as you go to live i hid out everywhere i went the places where there were no people playing saying you're here outside or indoors or outdoors hiding places there was nobody how long and how long vent did it take you to  two to three days so maybe i misread this but it sounds to me like he got into a dust up over the population control in force in a population control procedures they hit him then they sent somebody to buy to arrest him and he took off and two to three days later he was out of there well well i think you have the sequence of events right but but i think what you're reading into that is he took off because of something to do with the population control did they were trying to arrest them when they were trying to arrest him but it's not at all clear and we submit there's no nothing in the record that shows they were trying to arrest him for something to do with his top political thinking as the population control they were  partitions and the property and reasoned with them that because he was asking them not to do is interfering with their duties then they can't and then they threaten to arrest and broke out he called the english until people call for the security forces to come and security forces were either had been caught or in route and then he basically takes off so there's nothing in the record as i see it to say for sure whether he would have been arrested well so because the security people there now are calling the proper security to arrest me right they were they were coming to arrest him but the question is what were they what would they have arrested him for for interfering with the population control authorities and is that if he interferes with the population control authorities in a way that isn't as i feel it is political opinion but is because their job is to give that they confiscate houses that's part and parcel of the process and he's trying to stop the implementation of that part of the process he was only trying to you know in my view he was trying to protect the property interests he's a family control people well he was eternally resisting taking the property to park part of the enforcement procedure over there on occasion for a deterrent value is when some member of a family does something wrong the entire family gets it and that sort of makes that causes families to make sure that nobody inside the family does any wrong or we're all going to get clobbered and that's what this is part and parcel of the whole family spontaneous event like you know don't do this because then once he goes away i mean there's so he should have a lot of self to get arrested well let me ask you this if i can let's assume for the moment  harmed permanently in any way or that it was like beating him in a kind of a persistent beating it was basically when they were taking the furniture and he was trying to interfere with their taking the furniture he was struck so that he would move kicked him out the next day or something like that and five months later he left the country with nothing intervening we probably say well that wasn't persecution it was a nasty event that wasn't persecution the problem here is you know you don't know what would have happened to the guy if they arrested him because he got out of their drug well you know but being arrested but but from what happens like in the future first of all it's not his wife that's where that's or for him that's being sought to have the effect to me and ultimately what happens is now that the whole family thing is a different deal in china and i don't really make those distinctions the way we do but there's not but there is but does he have a our position is that he doesn't have a fear of future persecution because other resistance to a course of population control program here he's resisting the population control program well again you're on i wouldn't say he's resisting the population control program i think he's resisting  a specific visit where they're trying to you know take the furniture and it's not hard to snopes systematic anger and there's no nothing directly that and the kind of these he just was home by happenstance it's not designer standard he was an interfering with taking of the property so at the point where the security forces had come i'm assuming it's a property had been removed at that point it's not clear from the record what they would have arrested or not they may said you know don't do this again and they would have maybe been satisfied that the the term to the family was taking the property that's the only speculation that he would have