call the order of their meeting so that they can formally participate in discussions around economic development which will be a joint meeting actually of both bodies so you'll see a couple different stages of that and we'll have over come in just o currently the rite aid pharmacy so this is really a change due to change of ownership of the property nothing else about the service delivery method or location it's changing now we  the kind of cool progressive hip place that you're doing business ok good any questions for merrill or of staff from the liquor control board this evening who writes any questions or comments from the public raids so seeing and hearing none i would need a true emotion for approval the second classical license for a walgreens eastern company for what i assume will be a walgreens located at three twenty one main street on the second motion by are first up tonight we have an opportunity for a general review we have a carefully balanced agenda tonight but we are going to ask the item be considered for movement so i'm going to ask that i know each which is the to support the nine one nine foundation which is a foundation stood up by season is upon us if you want notifications about winter parking bans please sign up for next fall and remember that there is a permanent winter parking ban in downtown when you ski always we are putting up some new signage to reflect that so hopefully they'll be a bit clearer this winter a quick update on hiring the d p w director position closes on friday anyone else is interested please get your applications in and we have been able to do some equipment operator hiring so know one that started last week and a year or two that starts next week or this coming on nov ninth and then one other that we're interviewing so that's great we are starting to see some applications pick up as a result of that chang i'll be doing a lot of work on that in the next couple of weeks so be prepared for december fourth really excited bracers thank you for catching my mark and that's ok if you see the m get turned over th discussion that my understanding historically was discussion that occurred last year as well just in regards to some commission members thoughts around police staffing  department assets and just so addition to advocating for the budgets the members of the commission did also decide to move forward and passing along some of those thoughts to the council so i'm sure as we move into the budget process we'll see whatever form they decide to take to pass along to us i one of the things they did also come out of that meeting is likely an individual members of the commission maybe reaching out to as community members advocate for some of those thoughts that they have along those issues so i might be hearing from them and then unrelated to the commission but related to public safety attorney general's office alongside a group of stakeholders advocates that training talent soul state police just a large group of stakeholders have been meeting to make those changes that we've been hearing about the state's fair and impartial policing policy they're having a meeting can see start to formulate what i think is going to be the the outline of what we're going to get for recommendations from the so and i don't i don't dive in there what the content of the conversations was looked but i think it's probably pretty predictable what some of that is that led them to sort of change in terms of what their perceptions may have been coming into the conversation and that's you know where they are for a bill in the communal eyes and where the needs for different types of housing have been so it's been a fascinating it was great to get that kind of feedback and it's just when i take this time to part of the folks that we don't have another meeting this month when we come back in december we're going to beef for run on budget stuff so if you've got items that you've looks like for the next year or so that kicks off what for us is really a full two months of very intensive focus on budgeting so just one encourage folks to continue to watch we'll have a schedule out so you can see which areas of the city gov will be covered  when in when budget proposals will be coming forward so lots of great work to be done to folks in the community stay involved in gauge public works meeting got to move again through my involvement with the school boards association just a just an awareness of the property tax reality that we're as we begin thinking about budgets that's not within our control to respond to but it definitely are the reality because there's a sizable hole in the education funds there's a possibility of pretty significant property tax rate increases on the education side  invest in a number of years in making a plan that we think is really usable on a functional basis for steering our investments and her pricing our work so as part of this we're adding in what will be for the really the first  moment development portion of the play and chapter of the plan previously really the economic development chapter was focused on the redevelopment of the downtown so this is a good opportunity to take a more broader listing look at economic development  each and at the end we can have a conversation if you think something's missing so the first goal is to foster business development by building a regional assets local resources an existing business environment dynamic so this really is intended to incentivize the type of development he wants and then doing business to business networking opportunities so not only things like major business is a good partner to do offer incentives to visit both businesses some types of partnerships like that but also are encourage that business to get together to talk about their major indians are what are opportunities for solving those needs and partnering to work together to to support both businesses and all businesses here and when you ski and committing resources to a chaplain retention expansion and so continuing the efforts that heather is doing to get out and meet your businesses and visit with them and hear what their challenges are and find help find solutions so that business retention and visitation program are recommending we're also suggesting things like creating an investment tool box of you have a business that says you know i'm really having a challenge we have this new project we want to implement we don't have the capital can't we don't have the capital to do it how they would be able to say oh you know i have the greatest tool for that and she could just get that information right to that to the person and this is stuff she's doing right now but really building up that tool box and marketing tool box that these are the tools and the resources that are available here and when you ski just you know reach out to have her and she can make it happen that type of attitude and communication with their businesses and also things like supporting youth entrepreneurship programs in the high schools maybe there's opportunities have mentors and business playing competitions but really starting that entrepreneurial spirit early to hopefully identify kids who have grown up here in new jersey they have a great business idea maybe they go away and get go to college but then they come back and they're able to start their business right here in the ski and so we have recommendations around those in the section  the next closer diversified hansard is available to existing residents and the business community so the city continues to evolve and you have this really great momentum that you've had over the last decade or so really growing and evolving the city you going to want to make sure your resources and your services from the city are able to keep up and you meet the needs of your diverse population and you're changing population and so we make recommendations around the level of economic develop resources that are available so making sure that you have the resources and the capacity to implement your really immediate needs here for the city the status in clear communication around economic development groups so if someone were to think about starting a business or doing a development when they know how to reach out to is it clear is it outlined on the website and a lot of this information is available but making sure that continues with a clear website a clear pathway of how the projects come in the door and  who they need to talk to so really having that smooth so you don't lose anyone in red tape or in delayed but we have heard it and i just want to give a shout out that it's really great doing business in the city renews q b often we ask businesses during our focus groups in our interviews how  business with the city do you have any hold ups is there delays and we heard time and time again that it was pretty smooth working here in the city when you see so that's a shout out to the staff here and i think that's a shout out to the size and the commitment of the staff as well and then continue to pursue the various planning and issues throughout the city so this is your master plan and seth was just talking about the efforts going on pursuing things like a parks and recreation play and historic preservation establishments an arts district that you can direct resources to and really build that up so using your planning tools at that you're at that or at your disposal to continue to a salish and enhance and build out the city the way you want to free and maintain manage and reinvigorate the city's built in natural environment you have a great city you're really good good ball and a fantastic natural resources with the river and the trails and so continuing to maintain that and hands it throughout time will make it continue to be a great place to live and be attractive to a lot of people who want the access to kind of the downtown i'd like but also easy access to the river and the natural resources and so we offer recommendations around priority multi modal infrastructure improvements making sure it's a safe place to walk make sure it's a place people want to walk and they can bike and they can do all the things they want to do safely and so making sure there's priorities around in making investments in a variety of infrastructure improvements continue to use the form based code and make sure you're maintaining an eye and making sure it's implemented properly and how is it impacting the environment do they need to be shifts or changes made to it there so just keeping an eye on how that those relationships and marketing promoting hansing the various heartland recreational trails hit here in the city so make sure you continue to have things like when you ski wednesdays too to use the space encouraging organizations to have things like runs and paddles and just oh you overall usage of the parks will really enhance the quality of life here in the city i'm going to ski and making sure that the open space is meeting the needs of your various constituents and residents so spaces for young families spaces for older adults active and passive preparation options for the whole spectrum and so we make recommendations about about how to  rate types of units to bring in and be able to serve some of the growing tech jobs are higher paying jobs that are in the region make when you see a place that people if they want to live here they can find the type of housing that they want so the whole spectrum of housing options also conversations among residents about ongoing projects events and neighborhood identity city when you see has really really going to have a sick identity and it's and it's unique and the diversity amongst the city is really unique here in vermont in the northeast and in the united states and so encouraging each neighborhood to really build out that identity build out that neighborhood spirit through things like maybe that a neighborhood wants to do a block party would give you know micro grants to communities to host a block party and really build that community and that neighborhood spirit you could host different types of events throughout the city in conjunction with when you see wednesdays that type of thing that just continues to build up that community spirit and make you see a place that people say you know i love my neighbors i got this great i may really need roots here i don't want to leave i want to continue to have my family here and goal five is targeting economic development resources towards high priority industries that demonstrate regional and local economic or employment opportunities so they were market analysis and economic base analysis were able to identify three particular industries  scepter is that we feel are particularly strong here in the city when you ski and regionally and that we offer recommendations around how to really support those industries in growing and expanding and creating jobs and those three industries good entertainment and hospitality regional growth in technology base business and then also really building on the history of winooski and the manufacturing history who see for things like small back and specialized meeting factory and so around entertainment we want to create a situation where when you ski is is a great place that people know they want to go for their nightlife they they come here and they say you know that hospitality and those have to tell you workers here in the city  see we're top notch and so what you need to do there is you can create programs you could create workforce development programs to be able to differentiate yourselves around your hospitality sector and your nightlife and so just being able to offer just a little bit different of a service  d so that people want to come back and they know what they're getting here in the city when you speak and so there's work first of all the programs around that that you could that you could implement and partner with also as part of the community survey was identified for a particular types of businesses or services that residents want to hear so going back to the community survey and identifying what those particular retail sectors are of our food providers and you could you could look regionally and say business that might be looking to open another location and would there be a good fit for musi and that could be a an option for attraction rather than trying to get a brand new business to locate here one that he has some roots in the area so we offer recommendations around that in terms of technology based company we offer recommendations that include things like assessing your telecommunications infrastructure making sure it's up to date and you know state of the art so that you can meet those needs looking into options around co working locations as well as making sure that there are training that there's training in place with partnerships from high school to c c t v and other providers to make sure that your students and your residents have the skills they need to meet the needs of  the ever changing technology industry and then finally around small batch manufacturing and manufacturing production so again building on that history you could look into things like make your spaces so these are and work on their particular project and they are becoming quite successful in many cities throughout the northeast as as many factory is trying is making a comeback with small batch production of  different things that could be a really good fit here in the city but when you see and so we do it and just kind of had to before we close it out i didn't want to say we do offer recommendations around targeted industries and businesses but i also see the strategy is really  what's called economic gardening so really setting the stage you have fantastic momentum here in the city that when you ski over the last decade with with growth and change in perception and people are moving here it's a really cool and fun place to live  so setting the stage is not necessarily correct but continuing into it to work the soil out which is part of the economic gardening kind of language but working the soil setting the stage making it so that businesses want to come here they have the resources they need and so really setting that those basic economic development policies in place will make it so that your targeted industries want to be here but so do others and you can really grow economic opportunities throughout your entire economy and not just you know focus in on we certainly don't want to focus only on entertainment and retail but by setting the stage for entertainment reach a great place to live you're going to see those other industries follow suit as well and so we hope we've provided a strategy where you can kind of kind of make your way through it and implement the things that are easy to do nothing's easy to do everything costs money but you know the easier thing that those low hanging fruits are continuing to do the things that  doing and make progress towards achieving those goals and so that is the strategy that we've tried to to provide you with here and we are open to feedback from the planning commission as well as city council and the feedback on the matrix but we're open to we will refine it and then read the final document and then the hard stuff which is the implementation and so those are those are the next steps for us thought we thought we knew and some new things on their share of the atoms which is great awesome so i think will open it up to general questions i'm sure there's folks that will start with counseling planning commission curious as to what that environment is like maybe not just in the scheme but just in general right now because that's that's something that's fucked up a lot of your community were in development projects creating a lot of retail space that in retail potential that frankly has not filled probably as quickly as people with vision and yet at one point but it is starting to pick up quite a bit we're seeing in fill in that area but kind of curious is what's going to retail yet alaskans absolutely talk she wrote a white paper on the subject major decline there is big retail all over the country what needs to have been is you know retail old school retail is not doing as well there needs to be something else there is be a component of internet there needs to be an experience there needs be that  a lot of things going on with your are of things to do so the coffee shop and the reeds and the nightlife and that you know that that critical mass needs to happen in order for retail to be there also residential being near by  been doing research around transit oriented development and what kind of goes in first is a retail the residential or commercial when you want to get that mixed use it's it's really never your retail because retail needs that critical mass in order to sustain it and  certainly retail is quite built out but as once you get that critical mass of people living there people doing activities twenty four seventh's i think that it can be sustainable and you need to be doing something a little bit unique which is which is a good space for when you ski to be and to do something like a little bit unique the bird photo is a i've been there every time i've come up here to check it out i've bought something every single time so that table is a perfect thing so so i think to me it's it's what did you learn from discussions with people who live there when news about what they're in the what they see the needs being in terms of with downtown more or other  like a typical suburban sprawl situation i do see creation a gateway that you need reasons to go out to the kind of the spurs as being something that will drive development throughout the community and provide services to those people that live elsewhere because the european people obviously live all around there and so they want services to that are close by you don't want to just just focus on the downtown i think having the downtown attraction is is fantastic for ma destination and that's where people want to go and those gateways providing those gateways variety of other services will be just as important to diversify their tax base and provide support for the overall economy and so it's hard to say if it's healthy or not i would say that it's pretty typical to have that kind of sprawling situation and i see i know that there's been talk about creating kind of economic or gores into it and i think that's a fantastic idea for is because it is so small and condensed that you could get from one one area to another easy and so i think that you do want to see the development area of the city that that is where you really want to support things like public parks displays shared work spaces maybe galleries things like that to kind of create a funky buy and artsy vibe and really build that  to toss around a little bit on that first day in the planning commission as being an idea but it's a way to create an identity for particular neighborhood or area of the city or community  recommended actions and equity and quitting yeah that's a really good so i know that towards the so an objective to really start talking a little bit about the broader community needs in terms of physical space and resources  income and holding a public forum to get feedback from the community to confirm demand for various housing types i'm just interested in that linkage to the goal statement  because we read it with the housing commission members up there there is a housing a specific housing piece of the separate appendix and that really speaks to the types of jobs that will be coming in  think it's really interesting that's one of the recommendations of those opportunities to create workforce development which i see is another way of tackling like meeting workforce the needs of the scrolling area to me that's an area that we're more  n so yeah trusted if there were ideas around specific ways that as a city be concern for workforce development yeah absolutely the workforce of it is so so connected with economic development because you need to have the workers so many employers all around the northeast are saying that we have job openings but we are have any one of the people who can find x y and z and so working with your employers to identify who those are what are those positions and then working with c c b the high school other training partners to create training programs that can you can kind of put people in and to get them through and then connect with the local employers and so we do one of the recommendations we are talking about is something like i mean you've actually lead out and so making sure that those number a good number of machinists jobs available ok well then what does that require would take a certification where do i get that certification and so making those connections offering those career pathways is something that the city can get actively involved with in a lot of cities do  survey to look at what people are saying that they need and so we didn't necessarily get into that level of detail i think through the focus groups in the conversations it sounds like there was that's more like  a demand market supply side situation where trying to fight death by what business would want to attract here you know locate here so the demand is certainly here but but there are so many constraints here the sea of what is he so attracting that grocery store has been a challenge and so finding some other alternative or horse or product would be the key and so we didn't se we didn't get into that specifically and on the entertainment side i sorry restaurant the salish mints in the city so we do we do offer that recommendation but then just continuing to build off of the reputation that you've built around having to some different offerings and access and views of the waterfront and the downtown area and just being a little bit different set of offering with interpretive signage and educational components around it the really unique and important resources that you have there and focus your attention on the other aspects of the city for open  space so we're certainly not suggesting you turn those into basketball courts or anything like that but really just you know we do recommend a parks plan a parks and recreation plan so i think that would certainly get into a more our specialty is out this timeline in the spring and summer was have these initial recommendations to you in advance of the budget discussions because there are some budget some items here map which implications so we want you to at least have seen the initial comments of initial framework this is the actually a matrix which we provided to heather in actually excel format so she can go into it it's a living document she can check off you know you can add a status column like in progress whatever so that's that's what this is  attachments with information about like funding resources so yes it'll be it'll be more meaty than this but this should be kind of like that your go to every day tool in the about projects that we can help our municipalities so that's a great collaboration and in partnership we have with our with our communities i believe that you received one of the in your report so you have it in front of you i don't know how you want to do you want me to just basically touch upon some of the projects for when we are interested i'm going to focus on transportation money because that is very near and dear to my heart but if you doing with collaboration with the city of course in the city of burlington so and as as well as the trans we transit sitting with us as a partner on this on this project will be happy to come back and give you more details in the future when we have some alternatives preliminary moves so we can get your feedback back in and tell us where it was so we're also going to have a very extensive public process we're going to be letting you know you're very welcome to come to give your feedback then another another project that we of how we want our country to develop where do we want to do our best man's you know which modes of transportation to invest in and what projects to do again we are in the midst of developing that the board will be g provided some comments and we're going to have a presentation to the board and that's an important very important plan that is going to come back to you are going to have a very long public outreach and public hearing process starting in january so those projects and initiatives and we're trying to help our municipalities position themselves well so they can apply for implementation grants when the grants become available from the transom from a in our d c so we're working very reach out and review our documents or draft documents and provide comments to us because we really would like to hear that from everybody we would love to hear that so every month we're putting more stuff in which time there will be energy so there's going to be a lot of energy information and fun information on our website hopefully the next thing in the next couple of weeks we're going to have the economic development and lastly we're going to have the metropolitan transportation plan and i'm going to stop right there we can't say enough about the work and the perfect and what it means to us it's totally impossible it would be impossible for us to come anywhere close to having the capacity to put the professional capabilities that you have in your office and the technical expertise you have on staff here we could afford it it would not be reasonable things like rerouting arizona remastering out the state to read you the circular or you have to work that the good thing well the reasons we have councils today i think we do keep good tabs on our lucian ships and give a lot of updates on the work being done so thankfully i think for this group especially hope to focus on the public a lot of these seeing and hearing does we're incredibly appreciate your time couple of meetings so i'll do something else feel free to jump in so this is our we were approached by several funders to look at doing a transformational project on main street a complete streets because we build revamping  also been experiencing some conflicts development picks up once main street as a result of the farm based code and are really looking instead of doing kind of piecemeal approved medicines development happens look  engineering projects like this we really need to get to design engineering plans that are scoped out there are five and have and therefore we can put a price tags on projects so what we're asking you to approve tonight is a loan application to the state with all the funds to find what's called the plumbing or engineering review report work for this total streetscape improvement project and you see in the memo we're asking for up to four hundred thirty thousand dollars of this loan applications asking for up to four hundred thirty thousand dollars to complete this engineering work and that will include one of the lines waste water lines storm  what i have missed in terms of the design work or i think it covered it i think what i would buy for the fun of it pulled up this document which some of you may remember it's the form based code report from our our work we did several years ago that came to the kind of the vision conclusion that this main street bridge do is something that the community was profoundly interested in and it's all the grocery stores actually talked about in this report on king street as well hope so when when we when we think back to the community visioning process where we had five hundred people answer a survey we had rooms full of people drawing plant on plan saying this is their vision of revitalized main street i think at least in my recommend remember it was highly kind of it desirable from the community standpoint so to get from that vision to even be able to begin to think about asking for funding we need to identify the project which is where the p e are the problem an engineer report comes in and to get their first step is to step in front of you now which is the application for the state wi the scope in the scale of the work and at which point we would be using that as a as a sort of a starting point for our application and the the  kind of discussion we've had with the funders is that when we get to the point where we're able to describe that we're in at a thirty percent move completed thirty percent or documentation of that work we involved you know it's i want to say once you get that seed going it's an interesting discussion right and i think the real exciting outcome of this p r is not only the ability to go to these two grandfathers or three grandmothers that we've identified but to have that plant on the shelf that's ready to go so it has funding our teams present themselves we don't have to say oh that's great let us do the engineering to see if we can use that those that funding for this work that plan that is there is ready to go is proportion of the work that work was done and we are taking this document been using it as the basis for our our design recommendations to to be aged be so the questions about what that street scape looks like are not being revisited in and in a way that would send us backwards i think and to be clear this would be required by the founders this is not the activity of additional half items including a survey of general desks that i'm not sure what those are or how they connect with this loan application if it is a work that is happening it could be funded through to do that work but surveys are on the ground work it is much harder to do them once the snow flies so given a timeframe associated with the federal grant opportunity we really felt the need to move that as quickly as possible in with you know maybe but interim on the opportunities in the future and moving that forward with doing a lot of work around the pool too so that's one of the reasons why this has come forward at the speed and with that urge or what they are the value of their personal property is they send it back to us we assume that what they're submitting is accurate the process is part of the grand list of grand let's just set the beginning of the fiscal year based on value as of april different and different you submitted it back to us we sent them their tax bill in july and they realized through their friends across the seas that they had recorded a software program a software the general fund for the specifically here they come to us for a change and really the only avenue to allow that change is for the council to allow us to accept a new personal property tax f to not spend twelve thousand dollars this year somehow so the option is to do nothing to let it stand it was what was submitted by the property article by the business owner and then of course they would have the opportunity to submit a new form in the spring business owner would submit that says the assessor would consider that the city was approved it would come back you for final approval really are two options and i have talked about this couple of times you see in the packet here the correspondence between the city a it but we have assets at those sites as well and so are our staff person who handles all of our property tax filings for all of these locations is is accustomed to getting the asset report from another staff person attaching the values to our reports and filing them and so she did the did the same thing with this location but of course at this location we have a bunch of software attached and it just got messed and it was just our air is that we have these big software values attached to this location that do not qualify as personal property so it was just an oversight by her part and so that resulted in property values that are ten times higher than what they should have been so it's a significant error and caused their property tax bill from last year to go from sixteen hundred up to eight hundred thousand this year so it's not a small matter for us and that staff person after filing the report just you know file it away  and apparently the grievance process occurs between may and june but we can get a property tax bill till july and that's one of the flags enough for us that we had a problem and we looked into it further and found out what happened  and so we're told we're beyond the grievance process but we never had a chance to file a grievance before the process that the time slot was with had run out which led to a correspondence which each of these folks who helped us get on the agenda and here we are so clearly our air we do think there could have been an opportunity for the city to notice that we went up dramatically and maybe there was a problem or even that are supporting reports had software and leasehold improvements on addition to been included but nonetheless it's an error and we're looking to just get it corrected because as you noted it's because we've got a difference in numbers we think it's a sixteen thousand dollar difference you're you're getting twelve but either way it's a significant amount of money you will have for your budget it should be there to begin with is our feeling so that's that's the that's the background  building changes afterwards you know if the value comes back from appeal that can make it can make a big difference and we've got to figure that out when that occurs it happens having sat on the board of civil authorit kick in here anyway so i don't think you missed anything on the grievance process and i'll start off by saying we are thrilled to have you in town and you are a wonderful business and i know you really great things of this conversational that are very reflective of that and it isn't a fortune to stay at my car and i guess would be that i don't think it's fair to put the responsibility on the city for reviewing with you know a fine tooth comb the applications that are submitted that's really the responsibility of the property owners to make sure that the forms that are submitted are correct we have a small team here and  i think that the burden is not on them to make sure people are out of all the property owners that are submitting forms that they're doing so correctly so i but if we are going to be dealing with a loss and that ok questions concerns comments from the public i don't view whatever action the council thinks here is something that sets a policy or precedence of any kind or sort in each individual case is to be treated very individually and looked at very  think actually this was my mistake upon further guidance from the attorney i think with that if you want to make a motion today with a much it should be is to direct staff to work with the business owner to resubmit  is so the the intent is to get the engineering work work done on this us smaller amount than the last request well thousand dollar total for the for the engineering services agreement that would give us the accurate design numbers to present to council for the up ongoing marks on this project is but a million dollar building and head work down there to me but it might not be obvious to to most folks but when you screen waste water you need to take it all out on the big organic or inorganic things we don't have any facilities that are doing that right now so they end up down  process this could bear some fruit in the in the future for the phosphorous project that may come down the road but i think my intention is to  one if we build next spring for depending on how quickly it is done your loan takes a year after completion to start paying on so it's very similar money right now would be sixty thousand dollars a principal and interest annually for the clarif on this one depending on how many years we take it out twenty or thirty years which are eligible it could be that same amount or in the forty thousand dollars range annually there is some real incentive right now to do it for loan forgiveness for the engineer and so up to four hundred thousand dollars who's eligible at fifty percent rate so we we the time is right right now to do this study and again is just it was saying or tension is to have some of these projects that are shown ready so that when opportunities arise financially we can take them on so not only a storm water and waste water and water but but other just managed of that as well it actually would free up quite a bit of their time right now they manually do this two or three times a day it would be done automatically a lot more efficiently but it's a rated space this is space that needs exchange and gas detection and you can't build just of a tent over these things so it's that substantial money but again will bear some fruit down the road for us when we face other challenges phosphorous back into the waste stream because of the sludge at the bottom and we're not able to remove so with that said it all really hinges on our total mass daily load permit which we won't see until  we would have a i would be coming to you for an upgrade more than likely on the phosphorus until twenty twenty five we have four or five years before we'll see our we have a year of optimization and then a requirement to upgrade on that point and then you have the construction time so it's it's out there in the future but it's all relative to what happens with the having said that i think you know there it could go from point two milligrams per liter of point one milligram pleader and i would have a significant effect but as it stands right now i don't see that on the radar but it's a number of years out  you seen a lot of legislative jockeying around the central sources for funding that kind of work to in the future there's recognition the state level there needs to be some kind of support for the implementation of new regulations  because the cost i mean most of the scrub or micro studies we've done i mean it's million dollars in terms of performance rate to get down to that would be about eight if it goes down to the point one really very probably contesting things right now but it's it's looking like the waste water plants will survive that that contestation will stay with the equivalent to a point to capacity that's in existence now to continue to fund to fund projects and improvements using existing debt capacity and future debt capacity that is then just renewed consistently to ensure that we're investing properly in the city and not  a lot of internal discussion about the master plan and i don't know whether to say that's progressing on track or slightly behind and i think the reason i'd make this decision to label it as you know is one you know we have now part of the master plan ideally we want to give them direction around and october have not done that yet but we are on the cusp of doing that so i bring that up just to say in your work with your commissions in the next couple of weeks and months you'll see an they're putting forth may not have the specificity that i initially expected but i certainly have the experience in the past and know exactly what to implement so i feel very confident taking those overall recommendations and operationalizing them i would say that the hard part was something like this is it something that we will you probably needed that level five years ago really badly and instead kind of formal around a figure you out and then had the good fortune of the report is more substantial in the other questions from counsel for the questions from the public service in the public so s seventeen ballots do this work rate has done its effort here to put together this engineering proposal and to work with the commission's yeah i'm not sure if ryan is still kicking around the wings here somewhere but he really did want to come back up for a third item but he was also super helpful in terms of working with me and discussing with the engineers what some of these next steps mean as it turns out i'm not an engineer so it was awful to have the professional support  you know i think one of the nice things about the report in the bed is that it's pretty pretty specific and pretty detailed ryan and i had about forty five minute phone conversation with two staff from austin and samson were able to post some questions they were able to respond one of the things we did ask for is actually a more detailed breakdown of the budget which we hadn't gotten in the first bed so i think that really helped us both to look through that and see you know kind of what this buys us you know again i don't want  because i have not been here about it looking at that price tag nothing there jumped to us as being particularly concerning i think in terms of what we're getting back for those services so and i think to you know we started to talk a little bit could we nickel and dime this and cut some pieces out and didn't do them later and i think not unlike the conversation earlier about the main street project i think this is all work that we're going to need to do if we had some point are going to be having that the pool be a shovel ready project is as  been discussed with other projects to make it so there's not there's not a fluffing here that we wouldn't have to deal with at some point down the road if we intend to rebuild the pool so feel pretty good about the level of detail certainly very excited to be at this point i think for the poor committee while they were not able to many of them not able to be here tonight a lot of excitement from that group to the communicated with that about the fact that this was on the agenda so take us all pause there and ask any questions build so this is going to get us to  designs from thirty percent to final through construction the advantage of a design build and that and that path is that you can work on value engineering and you have year in year and shamir at the table with  contractor to have that connection because the life of the project so the guest there would be engineering cost associated later on but it would be once we determine what the full cost of the project is going to be this is really to get us to the point to understand what you're quoted it four point four million dollars price tag of four to understand what that is that real does that reflect the environmental work needed on the site and what are the soft costs associated with that number of contingencies big so contingencies for geo tac you know if we get in the soil up there in the soils not stable it needs to be by field environmental work if we find there's unpleasantries sub sub surface there that need to be moved away so one of the things that i think was encouraging to me is that there is a possibility that with the expenditure of this funding that four point four million dollars number could come down fairly substantially before we even start doing value engineering on you know the slides and frankly the fun stuff that we'd like to keep as much as we can but again until we get that bore into on the ground and start to do some of that testing and work we just don't know fully what's up there so and i think i would not problem is probably over the bus but i think roland didn't do this work and got to a point where they they bonded out a number that was way below what the final price tag on their project was so they are now building a pool how pool with no pool house because that's what their bond amount allowed them to afford so i think we we sort of learn from that experience that this is good money to spend up to get if we do intend to move this project down the road again you could lower  today that what we need to do to get prompt for a bond they will do he said he'll manage that team accordingly and get the work done like the project you mentioned earlier i think there's definitely a strong desire to get in the ground before the snow flies and they have acknowledge that i think are ready to roll pretty quickly if the funding is allocated and approved so that helps get some of those pieces going and we can do some of that light work over the course of the winter and if you  i'm taking the fact that there are names on this proposal that we're pleased with the work today we very much are and i think you know i perhaps didn't do as much buttering up in here is a should have they were great to work with through the process especially in terms of their public engagement piece that was an area where they really did work with us very closely and actively to to figure out how to do a good public engagement process they met with their full committee a bunch of times we had a big event up at landry got a lot of feedback that they critical on some level i think building the thing is going to be the easier left i think the operating costs will be where the challenging rubber hits the road but again we wanted to do our best to give a snapshot of what that will be not only refined as we go on but i think it does should not if things go recently well there's nothing catastrophic found should not drastically change the number that we've been you know with for the proposed potential cost the four point four  i would just i think probably the most consistent question i get from people i think is what's happening with the pool so i think some sort of communication  real this has a price tag this is what this means that's great so i do feel the need to put out the caveat i think it's fairly unlikely that we will be ready for a march on this project i think that this is three to four months worth of engineering work to understand what that price tag is and we have to have a final we have to have approved warning for a time meeting by the end of january i think this is much more on track to marry the potential bombshell for the main street project which would also which would be either at a special meeting or at one of their primary meetings and that's making this to mean we should be november questions comes from the public but i think still a baseline three months is probably where we are so again i'm not an engineer i don't feel like i can speak to what that timeline would look like but again  it may i mean i think there's a that's a big there's all kind of a bigger question there are two of bonds do to see to bounce back up together is it better to take them separately i think there are a lot of pieces there that would be  we would need to be thinking about internally about how we've stuck that up correct me if i'm wrong but i mean the way i was approaching it is if it takes if it's true so say it's three months or three months from today is december january february first so say we get them down for six say we could get them down two weeks that essentially has us coming to you all with it a financial proposal in that you're saying the warning groat and that does no w that's just seems to me that is a very very tight time frame so i was just trying to manage expectations of what we can expect from a good engineering product and what we can reasonably expect to you up to where a community value after you've also been talking about a budget for two months that's going to have other financial impacts on the community we're not going to know what december fourth what that number is going to be and therefore option b was the right approach and we needed forward with engineering in order i thought we were all pretty clear that the goal was march and so i got expressed last meeting my fusion or concern that the cool project would get tied up with the main street revitalization project because that's not the timeline that we've been on timeline implications so i don't think i don't hold committee know about i don't think we've spoken about specific deadlines firm lot of banville would go out i think we've talked about up with barbara most most recently as a sometime in the future but i certainly haven't committed to a march date and then knowing that some of these other projects may be passed  not it's of i think we just repeat that there's there's some real frustration i'm not just here this is a demonstration of frustration that we're also feeling from the public side of things so i just leave it there think my concern when really i mean there are a lot of factors that go into a project timeline including us like we live in a place where you can't drill into the ground for six months leader so there is seasonality but that also all those different steps that have to be taken once a bond is approved and so i guess the big question in my mind is if moving from one march to at the earliest august election would push back the timeline that would cause us to lose a season that the pool would otherwise be open based on what the project were to be approved in the ground would be broken so i guess that's kind of the big question or concern in my mind just curious how we can really perspective to say at this point so i have not talked to these engineers i think the so you correct me if i'm wrong i think to do that we would have to answer is that at the beginning we would have to scale back what this request was i'm not sure there's enough time to do the full engineering we would need so little the implications of that is that we would perhaps get a you know more uncertainty around the environmental i believe you've been countering it and not as complete designs which means our number our number for bonding would be looser so what we would probably do in that case is bond for more than we thought we would need to cover  liability and then when you bond like that you can just not take the debt if it comes in lower but there are implications if it comes in that high so there would be a lot more uncertainty if we want a full picture of the complete picture of what this would actually cost including operational costs and construction costs of that service cost over time i have my gut right now is that that's that is a very difficult in the future it's unclear at what point we would have to do that they are pushing us for a major line but there are but that's not in regulation anywhere show which can great lead in to the fact that you can pick up petitions started pretty soon in unemployment benefits in that you know under the administrative budget throughout the year and then at the end of the year we go through recalculate based on salaries of each department there proportionate share with allocate a portion of what we've already have posted to that in the through the budget to each of the individual visual accounts and there are several several accounts within the budget that we do that with simply because it's easier for us the p m i one version allocate them at the end of the  year that's really the the highlights of the revenues as i said there's a little shortage in the line of the call log interim government all activities that's where we get monies transferred back and forth from the various sections the various funds that go into the general fund to support some of the things that are paid out of the general fund on behalf of all the other governmental funds but then again like the like the benefits section that will occur basically at the end of easiest of all the financial reports to give throughout the year the next one will take place in sometime end of january first of february that will be for the six month period by the will encompass the start of the the seasonal occupation or the seasonal  that twenty five percent of the year and i know you well the thing about it this way we're already two months beyond the twenty five percent of the year so it's time moves on very very quickly but i can say as i said before  and i would bill i do it's always good to say and i would not like to say anything different but that the budget is being handled very very positively very very quite correctly and so that's always a financial person i mean it's always a back and forth and work that we as a group have done over the last couple of months we did i want to just acknowledge though that we did send councils some information today about four o'clock these negotiations were literally going on up until the end of the day friday and we were working on some of those details this morning as well just to get those to you so carol has emailed council earlier today there are some changes to in particular the forward looking lease that i highlighted in the memo to council but i think what this does for us as it deals with truck the use of a portion of the y m c a space which is great we've been sort of holding that off because we're trying to deal with both pieces looking back and looking forward that's been great they've had a think a good experience staying put and are certainly excited to see some company in that big empty space so i feel pretty confident that as i mentioned in my memo that letter of untap i think reflects the intent of a for a retroactive lease and then to lease is for moving forward one with snap fitness and one with new pm so again looking at those details i think the snap letter as you you see it is pretty reflective of where we're going to be  as we have got an initial draft and that's what i included in the package for you all tonight but we have negotiated some some updates to that which were spelled out in the memo that went out today so again those were negotiations that were going on  il pretty late in the day friday so i don't know if it's easiest to just field questions highly any specifics you know certainly this budget building budget is a complicated one overall so there may be some questions this building out of the building reserves that's been the case certainly for as long as i've been here and for longer than that really since the building opened it is not cash flow to a point where we've been able to get to a breakeven we have definitely approached closer and i think that with these leases executed and the space fully filled which is again how we're budgeting or anticipating on july one that we will be at fault and see you know we're budging optimistically there there's really minimal impact to the bottom line with these arrangements as as prescribed so currently with the vacancies that we've got we're subsidizing that building to the tune of about fifty seven hundred dollars a month which is obviously not a sustainable approach we will have an opportunity to go back with this retro lease and capture some of that difference but looking forward to fiscal year nineteen as a comparison again if work full see under the terms of this agreement that subsidization number drops down to about twenty eight hundred dollars a month which is obviously a much better number still big but kind of more in line with where we've been targeting to get this budget which is about  between twenty and thirty thousand dollars annual operating deficit the question is going to come up why do you need to charge more rent you've got an opportunity with new leases coming in and i think the short answer is that the market's not going to bear that based on that  advised the market is going to bear and probably honestly at the top end of what the market's going to bear for what that building is at this point i think the piece that's not necessarily going to be captured in an operating budget that i think does help us make some strides in that building is that we are bringing two tenants to the table that are willing to make some pretty significant investments in the building and as you all know we don't have a lot of fluid capital down there so i think this is an opportunity that we may be dealing with some operational loss but i think over time it allows us to get some work done on the facility that we've needed and then modeling out the other piece that is reflected here is some annual increases which we've not traditionally had in our arrangements down there so it does allow us i think to keep pace in ways that we've not been able to over the by my math and angela's not here to correct me which is probably good but by my math that ends up being about two to three thousand dollars of difference at the end of the day all and on the buildings budget so it's really a fairly it's about a one percent difference it's pretty negligible  so reason being that as we've gone out to establish the market rate that is a number that is slightly less than what the y was paying all and before and i guess another sort of argument against the why's rate is that clearly that didn't stick so maybe there were other factors but i think that that tells us something about the fact that that rate was perhaps off it was over that it was pre calculated years in advance with step this leaders rate two because i think that the expertise that again it's pretty i'm reasonable for us to expect that to just be on staff as then the character is not an engineer not a commercial real estate broker here as a snap fitness and i think this arrangement represents us really it's adding a great you know continue a great partnership of you v m with a service that is really important to a number of people that live here and in the therapy realm and that's that's critical but we also retain the very public aspect of the body of the building in general and allowing for a g ability of everybody to get to that place over having this conversation to meet the best needs of the public while also providing great great consumer pressure oblivion that provides a great resource to the community to at some point in life we all probably need although we spend enough time at the fitness gym maybe we won't even as much quite a pair of feet on the back and other questions and straight i mean the height if they're concerned about all open up the opportunity we do have it listed as a possible executive session if there's anything that folks feel at this point in time that they would like to asking for evidence as part of a big ocean and that would be an opportunity we could support to great so with that i would entertain you guess anything else we need to not just i want to echo your appreciation and i think there's an opportunity for something pretty special here it's a really unique partnership the three of us getting together and i'm super excited to see how this goes i think it's going to be really cool opportunity for us to test some waters that haven't been tested before so it's great very when he gave us a feeling you know we're excited to continue to have you and we're very excited to welcome you and so with that i would  motion carriers do we want to do we want to ask for lease signature authorization that was the motion that was included there to authorize the mayor or the manager three year contract exists july first two thousand and sixteen through june thirtieth two thousand and nineteen there are some significant changes included in this contract that are summarized by the front page so more definition can be promoted to any of two pending that demonstration the advantage for the city is that gives us far greater ability to run crews so we can we can deploy staff differently we can get more done with the staff we have because people can operate the equipment there or maybe if everyone one decides to do it over time i don't think that will happen in the immediate in the next couple of years but if it over time it does happen there would be a financial impact i still think