please the court now so good afternoon your honor i think it appropriate that your final piece of the day involves a fight over a motorcycle because basically this case boils down notice of the citation the last seventeen words in that section and does not affect the rights above owner fee purchasers of lenders without notice of the citation i believe are the most significant section of that statute in regard person who on the other well this is no different that what happened here then a payday loan or a for that matter a vehicle think with one exception and you know when you go on to finance your car at the super secure transaction position and we got the file and they believe transferred to themselves but they've actually got the collateral but the in this case the motorcycle although it would be hard to think damns versus anderson one sixty two well my second forty seven which involved a case where someone's purchasing property basically and they haven't gotten to the close it was basically a purchase on contract and they had made a fairly significant gains then they found out that it was part of the land there was somebody else who had offered the purchase of course this all went into litigation and basically the supreme court stated that if you have a bone of the purchaser in that situation they have both a feast status at least as to the purchase price paid prior to that coming hundred forty percent is the most deem that property the pawn broker usually on a fairly short term basis as in this case i believe the redemption period of the transaction was made september seventeenth the redemption period was october seventeen basically coming in getting a loan you have an item to the pawn broker i really don't see what else the pawn broker has to be in order to qualify as a lender stuck to transact i just don't see that please the court clerk i'd like to pick up i guess on the conversation that had started about the nature of what this transaction was and maybe just reach rights to the actual language that was used by the pawnbroker when  entered into this agreement and it was part of the apprentice and i think that we can probably rely on that language to see what the rights work of the pawnshop when they perform this transaction there is a statute that governs what upon broker is but i think the purpose of that is i remember being party to a case where they were making five dollars loans and charging a five dollar minimum on the loans they were making and they got in trouble with their license because that was more than two hundred forty percent so i know that there are one hundred percent yeah so i know  there are regulations i think that's the purpose of the pongo grex to bring them into the administrative sphere not necessarily to define what every transaction their business does will be a huge what your definition of  have a security interest you have to have a security agreement and i don't think this is a super security interest is their possession in fact it's inferior if you were to go to a credit union or even a paid a title loan store they would take your title they record themselves a lien holder listen to the secretary of state and then they'll be noticed to the world and they'll be a statutory security interest in the vehicle so i think that that would be superior but that's not what happened here all that happens because they never had a right to own the vehicle they had a right to possess it and they had a right to enforce this agreement which said if you don't ask back you're in the last twenty or forty percent interest and you get to keep the motorcycle indefinitely they had o session of whatever collateral it is you're seeking so yes that right will be affected and i i think in the brief i say that the citation specifically sized third parties in possession of people that you can pursue with third party citations i well i think the but most of them is if they were a purchaser for example and this is after the time you know one likes to use that they can keep it indefinitely after the redemption period expires and the p broker can say you know what i'd rather have two hundred forty percent interest on that money rather suicide only and so he said what i want to do is i'm going to sue the guy and to collect can't then then i would agree for purposes of the citation context i i think it's pretty clear that they're not you know because they never took title and i think that even the interesting case the talks about being a bona fide owner is something that takes title for believing to very high level transfer so i don't think that there's there's a solid argument that there ought to be a lender under the statute i'm contending that who owes the owner money anyone who i mean who's like the owner money but it would make sense in context if you're talking about a secured interest in these real estate so lenders are people that have mortgages in this case in arguing that lenders are people that have a valid secured interest in the piece of personal property but this well it in a mortgage case you know the mortgage holder all of that mortgage is a lien on the house i live this would be more now just go until i pay off that house the banker is living in my couldn't have noticed something that didn't exist because of what the it but there so that can only of it can logically only apply to loans or purchases that took place after the citation williams re but before the purchase or lender had no because if you say wow once i got up once i got my feet patiently and i'd done prior i've got my knee has priority over there all been this language just super for us because it well it could only refer them to the people who made loans or purchases before the citation lane well of course they didn't have notice of the citation because it didn't exist if they had properly perfect the security interest of the motorcycle before they were sort of citation i think it would be a different case because then they would have a perfect security interest without notice right now they don't have it this actually does as they secured letters it says that in context that it couldn't be broader than someone who has that kind of an interest otherwise there wouldn't be any rights to adversely effect but in a broader sense and this is i think an argument i made my brief when the statute was put into place it was following some case law and i think some debate about whether or not holding was created at all by citation and this and he says that or cited about what the effect is on third parties that have taken action without notice so if i serve a citation on mr cavanaugh let's say instead of a motorcycle he had a bank account ten thousand dollars then the bacolod five thousand of that to be spent then i serve the bank with a third party citation i would not be able to stop the bank or proceed against the bank for a longer five thousand dollars to leave even though i had a lien against that ten thousand dollars by virtue of serving mr cavanaugh so in a more literal sense by saying you can affect their rights until they have notice you mean due process rights they cannot be affected by the proceeding at all until they have notice of are served with it so if your secured party you have a properly security interest in equipment i serve the it's not going to affect the rights that they already have i think that the act was the purpose of having that language was to protect the due process rights of third parties that's where the bigger more than rights the lenders and and bonafide purchasers also have due process rights in the end the problem here is that basically you've got two innocent people your client and appellant one so now you've got good people there's no question of oak good folks and  certain amount of risk involved and upon transaction that's why they're starting two hundred forty percent interest of that possession of these things in our mission that of these things is often in question and that this is not a good faith motorcycle he had basically an interest in me and a forty two hundred dollars by october seventeenth that's the only way he could get the motorcycle back and that's the only property interest that mr