language and then it says john made a motion and actually you can make the motion first that i made a motion then we have the discussion of the language and gender after the letter and i i'm surprised to hear this michel like a diversion but i'm surprised that there isn't a way to send an audio file to some my apologies offered already for you to put so much time and effort into this i do appreciate your time my understanding of what's going on in the past is as i'm sure you're aware i took issue with change the regulations and from what i can see in the public record apparently the changes were directed towards schools originally started out as universal buildings and then i believe it got modified to schools meanwhile the overarching issue of what should be allowed in what districts apparently hasn't been addressed and i don't like cancer and haven't invested but the evidence i've been able to see from the they sent me back here basically said well we've received two reports from the planning commission the first one was relative to the actual buildings and they had a set of criteria within that recommendation for  they scatter those words and go with schools with a new definition of a particular type of sign which is some sort of an early devours and then all the other aspects of the discussions  district but other people can't do it i think it is better from a procedural standpoint and of philosophy for sufferable standpoint that the planning commission for standing and in the direction o independently and you do the testing for them and to i'm trying to get a sense for since i as i said i can't seem to get ahead of this what are you planning to do in the future i know there is activity coming up foreign based code review has kind of suck the oxygen out of room that's where focus has been that's now off of our plate so far as i can think of internally live signs was not part of that and that was very specific part of one area of town it's now on this like wars plate and so that's our plate and we're coming back to look at a number of things that we put off on the backburner to deal with the farm based code and now we're going back on a proper try to make some progress on as far as what we're trying to do with the language that we did send to this like board as we we have you here i have concerns and different perspectives among the planning commission members  on this topic and we spent quite a bit of time trying to address the various things including what's reasonable to do what's what and to tease you know should this be you know be allowed for what is something yeah the public good and and and how do we address this and what we determined was because we had this form base code coming up that we would try to address for the public good reason with the schools concern was because we felt that there was a compelling community value that got brought to allowing that use for the schools it's not something that we saw as putting a period on it and putting it behind us and being done and it's actually going to be coming forth in terms of the whole town thing but we said we had the school thing let's try to address it just for the schools and we felt that we had quite a bit is gushing about the well i can say it's moving forward is that is that when we're going to be talking about it we will try to be sure to have it on the agenda the agendas go out five days before the meetings although i have to say that i mistakenly assure that hopefully in the future i can be clear that i don't know about the cliche your concern is i'm very concerned because he's so focused on one side very concerned that solves the short term proposals and we did the best shot that we could we fell but i was very concerned by the by the expression of that solves it in the short term i've not seen anything that seems to be short term in th was the problem that brought the issue onto our plate and rather than trying to deal with it on a town one issue we felt let's see if we can address this issue that people are concerned about in this one specific location in this room and press my memory and i just took some notes there and there are some things that cropped up that i forgot for instance when we had met with think it was the plan and deal with all this stuff we still have some time to play around with and things and there's some things about hanging out there that we've always talked about as saying boy you know be really good for us to to do something here and this is this is an area i think that would be great for us to get something going on and i don't know how much of it something that we would do or if it was something that we'd kind of give it a little bit impetus to the conservation commission interview for their purview but that was just something i am bringing  i took what we had talked about i think you and i done this at heinz very had done a survey so i basically converted their community survey to a jericho community survey and just spent you know maybe an hour sure like changing out things and things that were like you know to make it specific to jericho i don't know that they're all the so i just took their questions and applied them to jericho here and what the reason that i did that i thought it was at least got us to a place where we could everyone could have this as a word document you know it was like an online service and look at have it as a word document we can start to say which questions we thought would be useful to us and which questions were missing and so that that's ready and i heinsberg when i was in the offices there about this and he felt it was a really useful tool the survey yeah he said it first then they were doing it first not really sure how it was going to work but they ended up getting some pretty good  think i mean it's awesome because you know we talk about the struggle to get the community involved and we get community input and here we are hoping that will represent everyone that your support we're not really sure and stuff is like how do you get people involved and so any kind of comment we can get obviously this is great you know it's remarkable this is the last time we just point we thought it was innovative just trying to think of of how we can tie it in with town meeting day somehow or maybe to have a survey for people to fill out there or or could be better to have the results to share a town meeting yeah something that's in the job so we can talk about it there's plenty of time but it became kind of a need to leverage that specific day when everyone in the community or a good chunk of them are all together so what are some of the i'm trying to think of what are some of the other things that we had ok so i guess what i'd like to do is which seemed to be working for us this year until your form is called was was focusing on the commercial district which we're going to back into and and and to keep that going every meeting until we get that done but not have it completely get the whole meeting in that we have room to kind of plug some of these other things in there like this community survey maybe something that we do one meeting or one of the things or something like that discussion tonight we might have a better sense of what that might mean because in terms of the commercial district specific thing because my recollection was we're kind of bringing it to it's not a close at least to a point where it was going to shift in a different direction and we getting into the weeds and figuring out ok what are some things that we can do to affect change or i think there's also an opportunity with the community survey and the discretion of the commercial district that if we can come up with some specific questions where we feel like language you know maybe new overlays whatnot to try to incorporate some better data that we don't have now because keep in mind our natural resources overlay right now is basically deer yards and yards aren't necessarily the best conversation the conservation vision didn't have like the key person they needed to have this discussion a month before they'd have a quorum the month before that they had other things on their agenda so hopefully this is the month where week i get back together with the conservation commission to resurrect that conversation and it might be nice to think about having a joint meeting with them and maybe in december possibly sort of the first meeting in december depending on how well it goes next wednesday but because not to forget what we've few recommendations for you guys to consider like actual hard recommendations like we tackle yeah we think these things should be included in an overlay but these things shouldn't and we think that you should have this kind of buffer around little pools where you have nothing now and you know good that was in february and we had discussed having a follow up joint meeting in september or october so i don't know if you'll reach out to barry and see if if there are a point where they will be timely to have a meeting with us tonight further discuss increasing the maximum floor area for accessory apartment to something more than thirty percent of the principal structure further discuss the subject of more than one principal structure on the same lot drive through master planning revision perhaps just for commercial or phased development adding a criteria to adding a teared system of assigning density bonuses for meeting specific criteria we did that noise we did yeah oh yes right yeah noise review regulation your current condition is called for development on the slopes of twenty five percent or greater allow a dot to views regulations to include a wide range of eligible historic structures consider adopting subdivision and site plan standards that promotes so word gain and utilization of other new blood resources all of the bunch these have tom plant reference numbers i consider adopting the landscaping standards  promote efficient use of memory so this sounds like a list that we had of store turn pass as i recall we talked about having a long term task that we do every meeting with plug in one of these things and be able to check a box so we go we did that o all right so the last half hour fair enough i think that's a good way to handle and i guess if you could just maybe pull those things out and just pass on to him what what those are yeah that's ahead of time we have some sense of what might be discussed then they have more mixed use let alone retail since it's there samantha said retail is ok leave in strip development language which is what john wanted taken out in both axis management and parking is important and done for you  retail is a question and i just made some changes to the second sentence i had the location for minimal impact commercial enterprises which are larger than those located in the village center just struck rather than cannot or should not and then i added a sentence the appearance of these buildings must be designed so as not to detract from the scene infuse of the area and i added mixed think the comment i had there the question mark goes back to the question of if the town plan and everything that we're trying to do is trying to focus growth in the village centers the to me there's a  bit of a disconnect between the goal that goal and the stated goal of the commercial purpose of the commercial district and to me to to fix that there planning documents while this vision of town centers and everything villages that are trying to focus road there has evolved and so that's you know a version of history has just been sort of this thing stuck on the left of the corner collecting dust  and now we're looking at me like she did it just you know when i was first created probably seem to fit in fine with everything else but now she's sort of like there's there's we're just a position it would be really easy to solve if we were starting from scratch right now and nothing had been developed anywhere or like ok what are we going to put where and what do we want to look like because it's just all paper but we have to deal with the fact there are facts on the ground here which we've talked about and there's a number of things there including the fact that there's retail in there and well if we allow that sort of stuff in the commercial district isn't that cannibalizing that growth that we're trying to have in the grocery in the village centers and the whole question of residential the commercial district and is that really makes sense  may be that there's a tipping point it's reached or it could reach that it's some kind of too late now i don't know but that was where that comment was from and i have thought about that a lot since then while we've been having down the side  you know when this whole thing with the form a scope was going on this question of the grocery store which that's a whole nother question but that there was a specific project that i saw there was discussion about how i'm going to village that or it might go in the commercial district and and i felt personally that if the when the commercial district that was a clear example of cannibalizing potential growth that should be in the village center because that would be a core village center kind of entity yeah it was like you just jump in sure that was the exact argument for relocating the library from wherever the hell it's called south main or north main street onto the flats because by putting the library there where it was going to be proposed after the church that you know there's a product there's a proposal for people to go into village center but it's not there yet and it may not know who knows as we'll see but that's that was my concern and that's an example  point does it make sense to try to be promoting commercial development in general corners in europe was that or maybe those are a little bit more historical and dealt out so maybe we kind of change the village center designation in the description of it maybe take with laughter the little ring around the riverside you know for base code or thirteen whatever and incorporate it into the existing village or where was a dental or whatever is over there now and then maybe the village center description becomes something doesn't  it was initially started in time for philip center but their recent experience with my recent experience with david makes me feel like i should be creating other options for ourselves in terms of where people can develop you know because but is that really what do we really want that built like ron this is certainly even that scale maybe even only half that big do we want that right here do we want that up by the jericho green is that really what we want there or do we develop down there and when we give them a dollar general could go that's like that's the beauty of farming's code is that dollar general could go in there right we don't look at that building you know the building has to look dots you know right next to jericho store but nobody's going to build them in those locations because it's not going to be attractive location but that's but that's beside the point if i'm not disagreeing with 're pretty solid on wanting to have that encouraging got to do this just to go up why are we leaving the door open for it you're saying why are we trying to push that type of development into that area if we all know that it's not going to go there anyway yet we're not going to allow that in the commercial that's pushing it in what way but by stating that we want to have growth and viable by saying we want to have commercial growth in the village center and not in a commercial district right yeah right so if we take out the ability to do any retail in our commercial district and we really sort of clamp down on the types of things that you know we're only going to allow machine shop we're only going all out of vet clinic in the commercial district and we are shops and boutiques and nice mixed use that are all together in order for that to actually be implemented it requires a certain level of sophistication in terms of the property owner what the popular revision is the engineers he's hiring the people he's doing business with  developers everybody has to have a very sophisticated like minded point of view about how that could or could not look including things like shared parking which seems to have been like a huge problem in the grocery store development like nobody can figure out how to do shared parking nobody can figure out how to do stormwater other than creating a pond on dickinson street nobody can figure these things out so i realize like you know if we want some things like that we need to create a little market competition and let people be in the commercial district who are ready to do that and embrace that idea because it might not happen even with a four base i don't think that's where we're at as a town as a place i mean i think that's the problem is it gets into value judgements about except we don't want mcdonald's at joes but we wouldn't mind if whatever the pres that's obviously i don't want them either i don't write down personally and i don't want to upset me joe's but if we take is the default they're going somewhere where i want them is one of those three places where people can where people can walk to  where the idea of the survey or this community not found with his community and the idea of a survey could be very helpful because what we set ourselves is that people think about jericho not about what it is but what it isn't and i think wayne was the one that came to the conclusion that there are a lot of people in town you know there isn't a drugstore right here in town and other things like that and people are ok with that they're ok having to drive fifteen minutes to to essex to the those places and not have it here and as much is some of us might disagree with that perspective it might make sense to have a better sense from the community about how the community as a whole thinks about this in the survey would be a way of doing that and that would give us a little bit more confidence in the in the these tough decisions that we're trying to make this i mean i have lee on our person i tend to have my own opinions this person because of the periods to sort of in the aggregate have the project represent what they thought they heard the community say raise this you could actually say you know sixty five percent have to say ok we don't want residential like let's look at the cities and see if we can formulate a set of ten questions to get feedback on so that we don't you know you know we were talking it so getting data from lots of other people in the community i think is it would make it easier for us to formulate a position and and still go through the process of your time ok so what are the consequences  there was a water there was someone thinking about doing exactly that  yeah i think it would benefit you to have some more conversations though so that you have like a you know basic framework of what questions you want to ask and and that is not i don't know if it's like such a good idea to bring in ten questions like tomorrow maybe you need to talk a little bit district with out having figured that stuff  thing for me is that something we can you know and i don't know what the next how does what the next steps are in terms of trying to get something implemented but i know that was the priority thing that you know that was the highest priority do you integrate that into the into regulations let me know you've got a conceptual plan for when people do want them to master plan whenever they do any subdivision it even if it's not a puti and if so do they really know what they're why perhaps just for commercial use i know it certainly came up in the discussions about the commercial district and it may have come up in other ones as well  town to see what other things would you know how that we connected in and i know that david did put in in his design where the road goes in stuff that is set up to connect it for future development but he doesn't really have a sense of what that's going to look like yet and so you know there's that flipside of a well i've got a buyer for this lot we're going to go forward i have no idea what's going to happen here so i'm not quite sure what to do with the master plan however if what we're trying to address really is circulation and flow and all that stuff is in there all different attack led by talking about more of the access management angle and things or is that when same thing and i know it was brought up with them when the martens were here and you know that was a big thing for them think about having a road going through and having traffic and you know being on the traffic in there and everything so they seemed to be on the face of it you know they believe they understood that there's a value to that and they they responded to that and david as well to having a road network that connected through there is the jericho center well on that one lot which creates a partial barrier it's not impossible to get around but it's something that needs to be addressed but certainly you know when you have the entities that are there who are are not always necessarily supportive of the efforts of the town and doing planning they're saying yeah that would be a good thing to have a connector road through there then you know there's at carve off he's for their kids and for the moment wants to hold on to the rest it's a hard thing to do with it and there may be it may be that it ends up being we establish know whether it's them or somebody else so like they created a cul de sac and of a sick man i wonder if i should ask him to put it right away and they're like off the call this i'm going over to this other jason property i didn't you know and then i was talking about it after that what can you think about that too and it's like that would have been a good idea like to me it's not like a big deal to do that because it's not there's no look this really cost as opposed to if you go out on we'd road and you see worse sterling construction did that thing and there's like this sort of gravel sidewalk battle inside the road it's sense another thing that we could do regardless of usage that is an impact is other things that we're talking about you know having space between you know having a positive from the village center and avoiding the appearance of strip development regardless of  retail residential or mixed use or commercial the number of curb cuts i mean it's a number of paths i mean that would be one especially related to a fifteen year one real way to one big step forward on access management for sure you know one big step forward towards encouraging that connection to be made whether it's because something that the town's pushing or the just the landowners and the figuring out themselves  i think i'm really looking forward to the results of th communities that are similar in size to us similar sort of situations and some of them seem to be more vibrant for variety reasons you know i was look at richmond and see that the great restaurants are there how do they how do they have that many great and our town the people in the community specifically are drawn to supporting local effective businesses and whether or not there's enough business to support them that's you know some business on the phone but you wouldn't be cool to have the kind of village center or even a commercial district that had a real distinct no national brand big box nothing but this thing that was really special in he must be cute well lividity size is one that's was one lakh right i mean i think it's very effective that there can't be large businesses character but they're less common there looking at regulatory stuff because it's sort of what we do but you know part of what we're trying to do is so this is to direct this element right in a state and usually this tool is the regulations and you know limiting things and trying to focus things in a different direction one of the other things that we can do is through promotion and was not necessarily the straight purview of the planning commission you know maybe the thing to do is to to is rather than the stay we don't want you so we're going to focus on building up a wall you guys over here began with that walls and he made of it's just some input from the community and sort of flavor what they're looking at what they would support and then less take down this wall over here that's preventing the people that we do want in figuring out what that wall is and breaking it down this is more of a town issue but again it gets back to us trying to get the slick work to put together economic development committee and and to get no one in the town saying hey we want agriculture you know going back to this idea that at least there's no one saying we want our culture we want force you know we want we care about working land in our communit ability throughout your concentrate new development project with rebuild centers to provide for economic development to promote social economic diversity within jericho to support a wide range of transportation operating out of that letter to the disliked board it was sort of well let's throw it at them and you know shine some light over in this direction and you know they were receptive to it but i think they're also distracted by a lot of stuff and so i don't i don't know what the right way to do it is i can't say that there is the first step being made with western slopes business association to move in this way and there's going to be a thing coming up next year been scheduled yet i want to say this month w me sort of a help and reception to the area businesses focus on businesses and organizations but also to individuals to find out more about it and when they get involved you know in the in their that's more of a business community kind of thing to help help this is they help with education to each other peer to peer i went to a meeting last month and they had some web gurus come in and they had people who were business owners it who were in the organization offer up their websites and put them up there and it looked at it and they gave critiques of it and they said here's what i see and here's where i see it working here's the different things you could do here's what jumps out at me what do you want to jump out because it doesn't jump out here and here's the information that i'm seeing here's what maybe should be here hire more prominent and it was really a useful tool and there was a group of business people all in there asking questions so they're learning together and next month it's going to be using photography and video stuff like that so that's the sort of thing town but this concept of like an economic development commission like to just take kinds of organisms and because i know you've been there and i worked with them as a client they you know developed economic development commission that was tasked with coming up with the economic commission to come up with those strategies is a common yet typical and i think it's also common for towns to come up with a commission to have strategies to support working land you know live in has one as well yes but at home development commission that's exactly garner so rich and the richmond's does is separate from the western slopes things richmond and they do interact with each other is they they look at what's the what are the needs for the business community in richmond and then they try to come up to to support the existing businesses and to help attract more businesses so i think there's a couple different pieces that kind of work hand in hand and it's not like want to entity that deals with a directly although i would say the town and its role of you know overall certainly there's a role for the the town overall to kind of help facilitate the whole big picture thing and to figure out you know which entities are the ones to call o you know think in terms of what our role is there though i'm like you know i have an idea look at that it's like you know we think about this all the time it's like you could ask someone to come to jericho but you know what we have to offer them right of a commercial district with no frickin water and the rats like redraw the lines and define what our commercial district is and isn't and that was the course of the six to find you can like brown water and they're doing it just so many things are like kind of up in the air i think it's hard for someone who wants to come here to know what they're getting themselves  d to answer your question you know i mean just checking quickly shelburne doesn't have one sure a lot doesn't have one economic development committee we had one in jericho probably a plug away at something that we've prepared to discuss because you know like a like a we know that we're going to discuss the character of the commercial district and you know before meaning we can prepare to have like all the notes of like what people said in the film from there we can tease a piece to grab on to was a starting point or do you want to give those but i really i saw that the few little chunks floating to the surface here tonight in terms of residential in or out you know retail in a retail big retail small town you know new character the village centers like to how does that affect us  so these are i think those are the key character defining points right now oh wise it's just whatever they took a restaurant they turned into apartments and ok great  one thing that you said on record that david said that made sense you said if you're going to i don't if you're going to buy a house in the commercial district don't come crying to me later about me of ok so to wrap this up this particular discussion so we're we're we're struggling we are talking about the survey thing and we're trying to figure out where we're going to go from here is offered  of the facility discussion to do you want us to how do i put together a way to do it what if i put together your sheet with what what i see is like the main