us your honor is what you are here to decide is a very small and discreet issue of whether the bankruptcy court properly applied the formula approach in determining the interest rate that would be paid to the county i faxed collector there's a question of movement has to do with the new bankruptcy legislation that just went into effect this monday and i think county has argued that that this new act applies to this chapter thirteen case and it's my position based on the law that it does not apply it only applies to cases that are filed on or after finally today controls a lot of that still pending correct that would be my position rather just one would infer that from the fact that everybody around the country lined up the file before them if you're wrong we spent a lot of unnecessary time spending on line of correct and then the other issue has to do with how this played out just before the interest that in the plan they put in their normal statutory rate which is one and a half percent interest even one hundred percent which becomes eighteen percent for a year the question is if indeed they are not entitled to it eighteen percent interest we discharge occurred after the reef the refinancing closed then i guess i would agree with you that the properties property of the state correct and that's how she was able to get the discharge was to refinance your supposed to be based on i think it's based on and that's the way the court applied with the formula approach there was another look does not mean what this form and approach me the formal approach means that you start with the base rate you know the prime interest rate or rate on treasury obligations and then you have to add a factor based on the risk of default and the nature of the security and was that not yes in my opinion that was done were can you tell me that that was done that was done by the judge in even bankruptcy court concluded but it's really based on the unique circumstances of this case the county has a first priority lien and what they were looking here was the loan to value ratio was just very small point zero one percent and under basically on the others so what do you fear what's the problem the problem here is i don't believe that there is a risk of default simply saying well there's no risk of default because the only time they could move in to collect would be in five years on the contrary that tends to push in the other direction does not i would argue no it doesn't because basically you know this is a property that unless it becomes worthless accounting will be paid its entire claim any cost without any cost generally the risk of default is where it's a depreciating asset where if the creditor  get back a car or something else it's depreciating they may lose value here the county will never lose anything they know they're going to get their lien paid off whether it's six years because the debtor doesn't comply with the chapter thirteen plan or i agree so what i'm saying is the legal issue as to what the appropriate rate of interest is remains valid if you accept the premise that the factual issue is not no i'm agreeing with the court ok really boils down to the fact that whether or not there is a lot sustainable by reason of having to wait up to six years is a function of what price is paid for the money in the meantime and what you're saying i gather is that the third as they put it we generally agree with the bankruptcy court conclusion the risk to the security of the slight however there is some risk to the security toward except for the voters expert opinion that the risk was point zero one percent this quarter some support first finding to the finding is not clearly iranians so then it all turns on whether or not so taking into account the factors that and the risk of default would be lower since debtor will be paying the county in a relatively short period of time rather than waiting outside two thousand and six another matter that i didn't address and maybe it's something i want you to be aware of that the u s liquidity of the collateral market except for a so basically what the the bankruptcy appellate panel is trying to do is put the burden on the bankruptcy court when it's not the bankruptcy courts burden it's the creditors burden to show that the interest rate that's can move in the event of a fault and that is occurring that entire time frame which puts it in terms of what the debt her circumstances are such as the on availability of added money that is necessary in order to keep current