don and shawn ward at this time i would like to reserve four minutes for rebuttal your honors i'm here today on behalf of all individuals receiving child support and distributed paying into the child support system specifically i'm here i'm have a donkey and shawn ward who have been grossly affected by the negligence and want misconduct of the here on county department child and family services these two individuals had an order from him county i'm sure your honour's are aware of the facts of this case but there is an interim county michigan support order parties moved to ohio here in county attempts to register the support order it's registered in two thousand and six in ohio and here on county unbeknownst unbeknownst to the parties it's only registered for enforcement purposes only not modification father modifies the order once it goes through here on county courts without issue father attempts to modify the order a second time judge picks up on that it's for and enforcement purposes only not modification child support tries to properly register the foreign support order unable to hear on counties child support enforcement agency attorney heather carmen is unable to properly enter this order seven times in you can you give me some explanation of what this inability consists of honestly or honor at this point and from what the hearing county courts have put in their orders it's the inability the ineffectiveness and unwillingness of the attorney for here on county to properly follow the revised code it's it's a simple laid out structure of how this order needs to be effectuated to properly be entered here on county just can't get it right and in the interim these families other any provision in the ohio revised code that would permit the the family to somehow get this thing filed properly or does it have to be done by the county well usually in when it comes to divorce matters or custody matters attorneys for the parties when they're not pro se enter these child support orders and her the documentation that needs to go to child support  child support enforcement agency ultimately enters the order for enforcement of modification so even if a private attorney was doing this it still would have to go to the next level of the enforcement agency to have them enter the order but given the facts and circumstances of this case one would believe the private attorney would have the right documentation needed to file the foreign support order for the revised code three one one five makes it mandatory that the child support enforcement agency be required to enter these orders th that's what you want to do it that is what we want to do but the interim there's money that's been taken that hasn't been disbursed how much but it we talk about nobody knows your honor and defendants haven't admitted or denied that this money has been taken if if you know defendants could provide spreadsheets of this money was paid in this wasn't paid out you know all the doc me to provide it shows that payments were being paid in but miss cuba wasn't receiving so then when the modification tried to start to take place everything ceased so ward would attempt to pay in child support enforcement agency was like we can't take your money we don't know what's going on with your order you know so it was a continuing issue so there'd being told that they're going to be able to pay into the system soon it's going to be entered right all these things are going to happen and then still two thousand and fourteen six years later it's still not happening and i understand you think it's we're here all the know how much money he's paid and surely i mean well he knows how much money is paid in the issue is then there's the two percent poundage that the g these are constitutional argument at all by your argument or the other side that you're right your honor but this is an issue were due process rights are being blatantly trampled on for the past six to seven years this mother is trying to get support services so she's not going into the welfare system ok and if if there and this is related to church silas question if their ministry of remedy for an individual called in the situation where administrative remit if a requirement by the been available there is your honor and they did there was actually a hearing and at that hearing it was ordered that here on county properly enter the foreign support order for the seventh time the hearing county had thirty days to get the order for me in county the registered order and file it properly january two thousand and fourteen the order comes out again it was improperly it was improperly entered so are attempting to pay back in a child support agency while this is pending and they don't want they will not take their money and they will not talk to the individuals because of this pending lawsuit so now we went the i'm in a straight over out they still can't figure out how to do the order we've went the state route in the federal route and now they won't even let them pay into the system this is a state and federally mandated program where child support for enforcement agency takes a two percent poundage gets paid by state funds by federal funds why is this not happening and that's the issue is that you know this isn't only of taking on mr ward's money it's a gross negligence and want misconduct on the part of the actors the state actors you know they had they had the party sign a waiver saying we know we're screwing your case up we know we're wrong here you sign this waiver and we'll reenter the order for you that was on the fifth time all right i believe you make allegations  complaint of discrimination can you direct us to the portion of your complaint where we can find these allegations of discrimination that meet the hate cup requirements before the continuing violations theory  would apply well in understanding that the discrimination is the fact that they will not let him pay into the child support is not a specific race creed and nationality things like that but in addition for the continuing can be considered for continuing violations under the continuance violations actor and here we make a takings argument we make a discrimination argument so i think the plainest cover all bases as it relates to the statute of limitations in this matter i believe the district court got it wrong they stated that the party should have known this action should have accrued the month they stopped receiving services when they didn't know the month they stopped receiving services that they would continuously stop receiving services based on the negligence incompetency of the here on county child support enforcement agency there was no way to know these are two people who are paying into a system ordered to pay into a system there's consequences if they don't pay into the system rights are taken away license taken away but then we have people running the system who can't get it right so you know there's a number of things that they do they call him county in two thousand and twelve and say we don't want your this a foreign support order any more we're ordering it back to you and that was part of the complaint and the motion to dismiss that transmittal form here on county to him county it says we don't want this case anymore it's back to your case in counties like whoa you told us in two thousand and six you took it over we close the file here even though you were wrong as lee said in payments here you know that we were receiving  intercepting because you didn't file the order right it's still your case so here on county goes ok well now what do we do it's still our case we don't know or are just as are we don't know what he paid into we don't know how to file this foreign support order so these two individuals it's all about the children and their children are not receiving child support services understanding that he was making or to this payments because child support wouldn't take his payments so now all the gratuitous payments he's made as court is aware child support doesn't recognize it's not recognized so we go back his arrearages are going to be somewhere in the twenty to thirty to forty thousand dollars range if not more given his income from the different variety of jobs that he's had the past six years nobody knows what's going on here and it's an injustice not only to the children but to the parties and to the system because this woman could apply for welfare given the her circumstances but she's not because she's supposed to be receiving the child support since for six years no child support because this county can't get it right they've signed the waivers and then will will enter another order will try again sign this affidavit of arrearages to wipe out all religious because we don't really know what your rear edges are stop calling us we don't want to hear from you anymore this is a government entity that's being paid to do this service and they're not doing it for these individuals the only remedy here is in one thousand nine hundred three and we know under blessing the freezone that the court did not limit a right under one thousand nine hundred three to bring this cause of action the district court wants to talk about clarke reported county and blessing those are two separate issues in both those cases versus what we have here here we have a takings we have a failure of understand how to register or it's still going on today these violations this you know red dress is available right now so even if the court wants to take out two thousand and eight to two thousand you know from the data filing or before then two years before then that's fine because this issue is still going on so it doesn't matter if it was time barred given the federal statute of limitations as the court directed it's still happening so that they properly brought their complaint and prior to that had the two years so we could say from two thousand and twelve if it's barred are you saying that it's not barred because if it's still your guess so two thousand if they want to claim the two thousand and eight to two thousand and ten barred fine that's fine but this violation still going on so you still have the claims from two thousand and twelve to present the morning honors may please the court my name is matthew teeter and i'm representing the police in this in this matter mr taters why i can't here on county get it right there have been procedural issues and there have been multiple attempts the the crux of all morning if people there you know can't get it right i don't know how to do the job i'm not competent to do the job and it's resulted in violations of these folks write him a complete breakdown in the services  tailing for a minute whether or not these are actually constitutionally protected rights there have been several attempts by heather carmen and and other members of child support enforcement to to get this registered for modification reregistration it wasn't a full blown we are going to dismiss this case and reregister it was an attempt to just amend what the original registration was for for the order it was registered back in two thousand  don't have any option whatsoever with regard to where child support payments have to be made do they i judge that is not true your honor if the parties agree which is what was  alleged in the point here parents can make those child support payments to the parent you can if there's an forced me issues then you can go through the child support enforcement you can go through c s e hey the duties of c s ca through title four d and through the revised code are to operate a system for that and for some it if you have a foreign an order from another state and then you come into the state if you're going to have any in foresman though it has to go through the county that's correct so if the county continually says beat us we sure don't know how to get this done what is a parent supposed to do the parent can attempt to do it on their own we have tried to work with with the appellants on multiple occasions one of the times that the case was that the the order was not registered after this two thousand and nine when the judge found that the matter it was not registered for modification we needed to get affidavits from the a parent from the appellant within thirty days to get it fully registered that did not happen because the opponents to it would not come in and work with us or that or that they would not that's right your honor and the balance of any any money collected is always available to those parties the balance the balance that was last made was your dollars there is no balance of there is no balance you have a beer is no apples left that that's  if they haven't been receiving this money do you claim that they have been received the children the children's parent has been receiving this money there all the balance of the money received has already been paid out that was paid out back in two thousand  there has not been any money received since then so there is and there's no place where it is because it doesn't exist that that balance sheet is has always been available if either opponent would come in and ask for it it's available to them but you just said oh the balance sheet of balance sheet there is no actual balance but this is not a situation in which the parents have a green with court sanction that they can take care of child support independent of the court and the children's the child services agency this is not that situation correct well according to their amended complaint it was the parents didn't the parents do allege that they mutually agree d however through the course of this litigation they they apparently do not agree on the arrearages of the total of the rear it is in the most recent attempt last year in october after the attempt to reregister because it was filed under the wrong under the wrong case number there's two case numbers in here on county for this so then what happened so that that was denied and that was kni that your own county court of common pleas subsequently the district court dismissed this lawsuit and since then there has been no no attempt by the opponents to have this regret just did ok i want to go back to the balance sheet can you say this there are a balance sheet distribute the money to the children currently there is no money to distribute so there that's why there is no balance so i said is it because you have distributed it already yes at some time in the past the money had to be intend beneficiaries that's correct the money has been distributed there has not been any more money coming in c s e a cannot accept the money because the order has not been registered here so for that period of time at least in so far as the agency responsible is concerned you don't know whether there is actually been any child support provided for the children who are the victims of this except for the amended complaint that says mr ward has given payments to dawn  quote unquote gratuitously although he is still under a court order the the hearing that took place in the your own county common pleas court where c s a is not a party we actively liaison between the court and the parents and attempt to do administrative enforcement or facilitate administrative enforcement at that hearing the judge asked both opponents if they had any accounting of the of the support payments made since the last payments back in two thousand and nine neither palmer appellant had any documentation of that and didn't bring it to the hearing as i believe they were instructed to do course you you've been instructed to do things which you haven't done properly so you know one would look and we have attempted to reregister the the foreign order however we can't guarantee that the court will accept everything that we we how tough is this procedure i mean you make it sound like nobody but a philadelphia lawyer can get this figured out and i'm thinking that's probably not true and it makes it more difficult when you don't have full cooperation from one or either of the parties that are actually two parties to the order there have been instances where mr word has not been facilitated getting the order to register and there been instances where mrs guba has not facilitated it ultimately i i believe this is still a state matter the parents can get this order filed on their own they can get it they can get this produced and then it can be enforced through us but the duty of c s e is not to act is their lawyer is not it is to facilitate a program through which enforcement of the support order that is already registered can be established as well now when this was originally originally registered it worked for a while because nobody noticed that there was a problem could they could the parents all on their own have fixed that problem once it was called to someone's attention they they could have if if the court had accept modification we attempted to do that as as their liaison and as good as the child support enforcement agency however it was not accepted and just sort of like gosh accidents happen procedural requirements of thirty one fifteen are that we need to have the affidavits in order to get it registered for modification or did you let him know that what he spoke to do and we did let him know it was supposed to be done within thirty the original order in two thousand and nine said we had to do it within thirty days we asked him to come in to sign one and he wouldn't do it is far as is far as the district court's opinion they found that not only was this barred by the statute of limitations but there was no individualized right to collect and receive child services or to collect and pay child services logically it's inconsistent that there be a constitutional right to pay child services the father has been ordered to in the  word says that he wants to pay child support services he can pay those child support services and keep a record of what he's paid the district court properly found that there was no constitutional right in this court enforceable right under federal law additionally in their briefing opponents attempt to cite two other federal statutes they claim give them an enforceable right to pursue under one thousand nine hundred three they say to forty two u s c six fifty four in six fifty seven however much like the statute that this court contemplated in clark is a general statute devising how funds that are already collected may be dispersed it does not confer an individual right it's more of an aggregate focus and it's a it's an administrative administrative statute that tells county children services and for child support enforcement agencies how to disperse the funds once already collected under a registered support order ultimately the district court for the district court found it a failure to collect and distribute child support and child support was not a protected right in the constitution to rule otherwise in this case would say that  any time child support made a party to a child support order child support enforcement made a party to a child support order unhappy or displeased with the result that a common pleas court came up with they could sue under federal law twenty seven forty four zero four does not apply in this case simply based on based on the fact that children should child support enforcement has continued in their duty to try and operate a program of enforcement since two thousand and nine with respect to these two individuals they claim a continuing violations theory that theory does not apply for two reasons the first reason is that the plaintiffs of the opponents have not identified any discriminatory policy or discriminatory conduct there is no discriminatory conduct alleged in the amended complaint your best case for saying that the continuing violations theory is limited to discrimination it is far as i know the only the that the continuing violations theory applies however that ad hoc argument that it applies because there is some vague discriminatory conduct in their briefing should not apply and should not cause to not be cause for reversal based on their men to complain what their men a complaint alleges there are many complaint does not allege is any discriminatory conduct that they're a member of any protected class or that they were treated differently than any other than any other member not in their protected class those are the three the three keys to discriminatory conduct and their complaint is completely devoid of all three in their in their reply brief they dropped the discriminatory conduct completely and a spouse  a spouse and a stop all theory based on the fact that additional steps were taken after two thousand and nine to attempt to register the support order that is that is child support foresman agencies duty we are we are to we are to attempt to put in place and and run and operate a program of enforcement if they'd come to us tomorrow we will still continue to register that although i guess you'd want to say you would continue to try because you know that having been you to attempt to register that that's correct however there  theory says that because we acted under that duty they were they're allowed to apply the continuing violations theory we're under no obligation to to act as their attorneys we are not there we are and we are not under any obligation to to preserve their right to sue us if they had wanted to sue they were allowed to sue however they waited after knowing that there were no child support payments from two thousand and nine they waited until march to march of two thousand and thirteen to file this suit they gave no explanation as to why they waited only that we were attempting to rectify the situation and that goes along with the immunity arguments and the reason the court found that we were mune was that we continued and continue to attempt to register this we cannot guarantee the outcomes of the hear of the hearing county common pleas first and foremost counsel makes it sound like plaintiffs can walk into here on county child support enforcement agency and ask for certain things be asked for certain things to be done here on county will not speak with the plaintiff at this point they stop speaking of the planets in two thousand thousand and nine two thousand and ten it's tonight again still no fun she's still calling two thousand and eleven and they're providing the documentation counsel said they were providing all the documentation affidavits there was no f the data needed by sean ward to register the support order nothing was needed by shawn ward or don cuba to register the support order the court stated on numerous occasions the issue was the paperwork heather carmen was providing the failure to get the certified county record from michigan it wasn't anything to do with shawn or dawn's actions in this matter was the actions of here on county an understanding that they're hearing county is not the attorney for the people for the parents they still provide the se being held that nobody knows what the fund how much funds are being held and what the arrearages are and what was paid to miss cuba yet they gave us a sheet this show zero zero zero zero payment but they don't show us the she where the payments when the ingham county where the payments were held what went to arrearages so nobody knows what amount is supposed to go to ms given i understand we could sit down and figure this out with a forensic you know accountant or someone to figure this out but they just want support services in general and you know we do allege that mr ward was paying miscued one hundred bucks here one hundred bucks there every other month when he had the money but and that is considered gratuitous council keeps wanting to say that they could go by themselves and do that but that's not the point missed there was a support for and support order there was register in two thousand and six the misc of a wanted to continue through here on county because there's issues between the parties even though they get along they're civil it's still money from dad to mom that mom needs to support these it was three two children now it's one child i'm sorry three children and two children now it's one child so the child support enforcement agency is there to make sure that she's getting these payments she's not getting these payments she's not getting any payments now from mr ward because he attended i think two months actually was a month and a half ago to go into child support asked what he needed to do to start paying in the system because he's making substantial money at this point so even if we were to go in and figure out from two thousand and eight to current what his employment was what his child support payments were supposed to be what the arrearages were what the percentage for medical support is it nobody's it's going to be amazing if anybody can figure out that amount at this point the damage has been done d process rights have been stepped on there is an individual right through blessing through clark because there are specific instances of violations that here on county and all defendants have done in this matter the court blessing said you haven't showed us something individual lies it's going on here so you don't get the right clark did the same thing here we've shown failure to register support order failure to take money or take the money given to plaintive taking the money and defend plaintiff's word and not giving to sh