may in in the sense of a commentator predict that things are going to get worse and worse in venezuela before they get better but i can't see where you've got proof in the record that right now the kid can expect persecution and i don't understand why he has a well founded fear and it's so compelling that at under the he like a saccharine is standard we can overturn the  mixed motive as long as one of those grounds is implicated here so what we're told but the other thing is it's all technically correct that there hasn't been an arrest yet the record of the evidence seems to show that the father has a pending arrest that they're going to raid that after twenty three years of service in the government of her federal benefits and i would suggest that and that's a substantial economic detriment on account of her political opinion there can't be anything more clear than that your honor and in addition to that we've got distinguishing that from somebody who's worked for twenty twenty five years and some that are all nonexempt position where it's customarily left alone and then new politician comes into office and they get fired and it seems really nasty but it's not persecution well your honor thing that happens in the u s that not infrequently we are in the firing itself i would agree however we're talking about here cruel benefits someone has worked their whole lives for twenty three years in the same position with the expectation of getting that retirement and that's why a lot of their career if they're going to be denied everything that they put aside everything they vested into that i  from groups opposed to charges it seems very clear that there were reprisals against those who publicly criticize the government who mr morris thought or the next one seventy five at south one sixteen one seventeen we've got that description of the ultimate  massacre where you know it was publicly it's public knowledge now that the child is actually put the hands are sort of the supporters but the gun in the hands of the shooter we've got jr seventy three  mr mora and comes from a prominent political spam leaves father was the president articulated general secretary of the a g party he was also a senator for twenty five years to the national congress his mom was a personal secretary of  a number and the the core of it is that most of the conduct of which mr moore marina complains is not rise to the level of persecution restaurant school nervousness things id not being able to run for government office or have a military career even the loss of the mothers position in politics none of those rise to the level of persecution there must be more than that something more to the mother  chavez closed down the entire legislature and so as a result she lost it clearly it was not directed at her individually a number of people as a result of this change of parties i mean it it's a huge political and economic revolutionary change and certain people like them are merinos who enjoyed a great deal of status politically in terms of wealth and so on the is turning and changing the think their feet but that doesn't rise to the level of persecution there are some very specific incidents that counsel just referred to that are in the brief for example the ultra myra shooter in the documents that  that first of all how that relates to mr marino which is the real question he happened to be present at that rally but the fact is that souter was convicted and sentenced nother issue is with respect to the uncle reagan was twelve years old it's not a nuclear family and second of all they simply are among the many many politicians and upper or upper middle class individuals who have lost both some of their wealth and some of their power objective fear of what will happen if he goes back i think he had a genuine subjective fear but he failed preston is whether he meets the objective i would appreciate if you would address that yes your honor and that's what really because that when it comes down to it in my brief addresses that as well that really taking away all of the other the threats our kids are something to analyze and look at and i the circuit there have been a number of threat cases and if you look at them notwithstanding the fact that this circuit has said that threat standing alone can amount to persecution if you look at the facts of the each case there are other factors that make the threats something more then just simply threats and in this case these threats went on for four years and i point out that the mother left venezuela and returned three different times during that that whole period when the threats were being made and those other factors are the source of the threats for example in our case after case if the shining path improved means a threat to an individual this circuit right police that those people are as good as their word if they make the threat then the target is dead and because there was there is sufficient sufficient evidence to support that another factor is the threats are company by harm and violence and there are a number of threat cases in the circuit and i dressed them individually in my brief your honor where what it really it isn't just a threat case where the individual was beaten where the individual's parents were beaten in this case not a single person has suffered any violence has not been arrested there's been no correct that is life was too right well your honor i disagree i think there have been cases where it most of the threat cases do involve you're good you're going to die we're going to kill you but the court also looks at well you know how how seriously should we take these threats this particularly if you look at this case these threats went on for four years and there was not a single incident where they even say that having them followed and the threats by the motorcycle rider that's a single incident when mr marino was acting as a community night guard on the roof at night nobody could identify and they didn't know who he was he didn't know who they were so that can't really you can't connect that to the threats the parents received i don't think under the fact made and then look at them in the context of how seriously once we make those take those threats again over this period of time with nothing more than receiving those telephone threats mr moore marina himself the petitioner attended a number of rallies he's times petitions against chavez the mother did as well the mother even presented the petition to go chavez's wife in person and yet nothing more than telephone threats and i think there's a point where you where it's i don't mean to to understate i would not like to receive death threats nobody would like to receive death threats but there's a point at which we have to look at whether those threats alone in the context of this case and on these facts where it states that the record states that the father he is in hiding he is the son testified at the evidence or hearing that the father had is in a secure place with lots of ammunition and weapons and security at security system and security guard but again the only reference to his being arrested was simply one item in the record by a newspaper a little local newspaper where the father lived there instead it's rumored that he will be arrested and his property is expected to be raided and they will persecute him and it's about rumors the uncle himself who these were also he received death threats when asked about those death threats involvement of the government or forces it cannot or will not control he said no i wouldn't believe so that any politician was promoting these i believe most of these invaders are dishonest people and a bunch of criminals they have taken this as an the immigration law not being driven by political opinions or this that who's president or who's the attorney general on any given time and i think it's i personally  i would not like to take that into consideration there's always a possibility of drawing to inconsistent conclusions but that does not negate the substantial evidence standard in this case and i suggest it's substantial evidence forty five in the administrative record in the mom's personal statement she states that she was her neighbor had assaulted her by trying to drive her car into her these are not s house i suggested phone calls these are personal