so submitted it's really just a question here statutory interpretation is what the legislature intended when you know and i disagree in the scheme of you know trucks traveling the highways we have this very complicated the law you can get a license and you can file your mileage with the various states and apportion taxes so you don't get double taxed that's not a lie here with knowledge we didn't have any such license because we're not operating an interstate basis the question simply then is whether a single trip mitt was required prescribed by the legislature and we submit that there are two good reasons not to do so first of all is the very definition of a commercial motor vehicle as expressed in the motor fuel act itself under five a five section one point six where the definition of the vehicle is said to a commercial motor vehicle operated solely within the state for which all motor fuel is purchased within the state that i think should take care of the situation the trial court found that well they were intending to exit the state  know how they had they were nabbed before they got to the border and stop there but you know the idea that while you're leaving the state and therefore you know you're not using all the fuel within the state of illinois i think the owner operator definition isn't sufficient i submit that it is you move to section thirteen a five itself which in numerous situations where a single trip permit is required and necessary starting with a trip into the now you know just common sense tells us that all of those are directed toward the pass ability that commercial motor vehicles can be coming to the state of beaumont and burn fuel for whom it was purchased in another jurisdiction in the taxes  doctrines of statutory construction is when this legislature starts to numerate things it by definition excludes other things this situation is completely different than all the loose definitions seller with sufficient fuel to leave the state of illinois all of that was stipulated in the evidence either by way of stipulation or skipping the stipulation that but what about the argument that let's say at three because there was no question about exactly what happened but even assuming that only three trucks were more fuel than there was sufficient fuel in you know the trucks is there a presumption that the fueling of the trucks was purchased out of the state of illinois i don't think so the fact that the trucks from your perspective your client comes here just to buy the trucks all by five trucks gets the seven permits which i think it except the definition which says if you buy all your fuel operates all that within the state of illinois then there is no single trip permit in my my position on that definition seems to me is if you bought a truck and you were only within the state of illinois and you never left the state obviously you would never have to buy a single trip of it and you would have to buy a new license under the portion of that either but then if i just paid you went on to recognize that there are situations where you know there's going to be commercial truck travel into the state or through the state but they specifically did not include and therefore by statutory definition intended xclusive the the situation where a truck was purchased in the state of illinois all it was fuel in the state of illinois and all the exit states and i submit it just appears the common sense requires that you know there may be but we still for just this situation they could have done that if that's what they are what i think they're very different issues whether or not you know because the stated point that it's taxes because we're dealing with motor fuel taxes i don't like they could mean the legislature could have said by the way if you through maybe the reason was a lot of dealers have transports that they use of for their own interstate commerce you know they may come in illinois get seven or eight cars and move them up and take them out maybe that's why the roommate i don't know what was purchased anywhere else but looking at burned out one could keep a four year you're not a border terrier and not a motor very big they stipulate that we're not in the business of transporting thirty five is where the three definitions exist the three situations where you come into the state of illinois going through the state of illinois we enter the state good to a point and then return to port those are the three situations where they want to get  require a single trip permit which makes sense you're coming from another state where you fuel and you got to burn a fuel in illinois roads only once it's fair share and if you don't have a license then you get your single trip permit but how on earth if the time for all those reasons your honour's yes the court reversed not only trial court but the department itself there is a an issue about the standard of review that i think that you know that was adequately please the court i'm eric tritt assisted attorney general and i represent the department i think there's a great deal of confusion and interstate opposition about what the statute requires and so i'd like to talk a little bit about statutory structure really the state of illinois was not deprived than it used x and i would say that we don't know because interstate circumvented this department if you look at the the transcript from the administrative hearing the department spends a great deal of time and its closing argument discussing you know the value evidentiary weight of th jupiter or something like that this is completely ridiculous well if you look at section thirteen a it puts the burden on the motor carrier to keep accurate records not only where they purchased the fuel but also how much fuel they consumed in the state of illinois they don't really have those records and the presumption is just the fuel we have is a fine but i don't buy be yourself we have a receipt that c i t th purchased one hundred fifty gallons of fuel ok that's there's no doubt that on march twenty first i believe it was that they purchased that amount of fuel but that it's a long way from there to showing that all of the  the trucks consumed in the state was purchased and taxed in state come from again we don't know because they didn't keep the records if the purpose of getting a motor fuel use tax license is that you keep accurate such that the state can accurately track the purchase and use of fuel in the state now there's no direct allegation that interstate trucks brought in fuel from another state we simply don't know so it's suborn this is the basis fuel you have to design a system that allows you to accurately track the purchasing assumption again without making direct allegations against interstate but we are saying that the burden is on the taxpayer to show where they got the fuel higher standard i'd like t but the reason why the affidavit lands at the administrators period was for a couple of reasons first of all it was because the fueling pattern did not can't seem consistent with filling up that they can if they're selling large number of trucks it's not me see i think there is that they have their own fueling facilities but again i don't you know this is all out side of the record speculation the point the motor fuel tax purchase all of the fuel in the state you're still obligated to have either a tax license or a single tree trip permit under thirteen or so the only way if you projected a o'jays position on fuel and you decided that they actually did purchase all of the fuel and i'll annoy you would then have to decide that the fuel that they purchased was sufficient to get them outside of the state of illinois and again the statute says absent accurate records presume that it's four gallons per mile then you would have to say well where the trucks operate it's only within the state of the right answer there is no so that the fuel the issue is relevant is not relevant to the question of thirteen or whether or not you need a license or a peek out it's only relevant to the exception that they're claiming to the definition of commercial motor vehicle they're saying we purchased all the fuel in illinois and the trucks wrapper it obeisance and application that goes along with the license does aid and the collection of interstate taxes the single trip permit scheme is really a convenience made available you're required to get a license unless you get a si of the license you don't need a new motor fuel license or a single crip permit if you or you are in mount vernon though and you purchase and use that in the city again then they would have to argue under one point one sec they're not required to have all license or permit but they were happy rated solely within the state as long as they were within your concerned they were operated in the state of ohio that once they get outside the state of illinois you have no right to vehicles to include an expletive from the taxes and they talk about because they go through that suit of illinois they passed by vehicles that start on the border and inside the state of illinois go back to work they do not talk about vehicles that originate in the state of illinois and x city well those are those are the list of single trip permits available under section thirty five initially we're talking about why the definition of commercial motor is a truck that's going to be picked up in springfield to leave the state but feel the state of illinois never to return to the state of illinois what's our issue again the whole point of the scheme is to get you to either buy the permit or  inside the state of illinois with in usenet well again think about the difficulty the state has and identifying which trucks it should stop and should not stop the many trucks that go down the roads the whole point of it requiring either of license for a single trip permit is they know if that truck passes by that that truck is flying x if they don't have a license and deepali they don't have the permit and that's the grounds to stop them so that the point state wants to collect tax on the distance that's travel within the state they eliminated the dealer exception and there's no way of knowing without a single trip permit or a license whether or not where the you made appropriate stop yes but then you get to the issue of the practical issue how did you get here who are in which the l j adjudicates by saying even though the mischief that we are trying to eliminate that's the presumption and we fill these trucks up so these people that came you know annoying to do business and buy trucks from us could accept this they never to be seen again now what's the public policy behind  you know that's when the legislature writes a statute like this as a task lection scheme they take into account the possibility that you know not everyone is is going to willingly buy with this scheme so you have to have some sort of penalty for people that don't buy that maybe in this case that they purchased all of the fuel but they still didn't have the license or the simple trip permit and those are necessary elements of the overall force will be seventy but you said th trip permit seem to be really for the purpose so we know who to stop and we know when they were doing what they were supposed to do so you stop them you know when i have a single trip permit and you say well because you people are crazy but again i would say that if you were if you were to tell all four interstate trucks and they weren't required to have single trip permits it would make it more difficult to north of boston because you would basically allow the single crypt permit it has to have that you count out there that's wrong because or other trucks that are a lot of used highways without which i said that was for a commercial motor if the truck that you described is not defined as it looks just like the one that was being the three or four that were being driven in this case i guess but i would like to get back to just the status points again it does seem that there is some sort of skepticism about what the wisdom of what the legislature has done here but that's not if you look at the plain language of the statute it says either need a license or a single trip permit the trucks were stopped they didn't have either of license or a single trip permit there's no doubt he i believe the permits and licenses are in that year by year basis so i'm not sure what you know i don't now i don't know how it's administered on the ground in terms of how you live i can see  to the state of kentucky i'm in but until that happens it seems to me i'm operating solely within the state on that sorry than requiring illinois department of revenue agents to wade across the border for trucks to violate the law as opposed to stopping them in a way that would produce no i think the only thing they should do stop them after they come back and say that all that's washington once they're out of the state of illinois they're gone but then the the vehicles operated solely within the state of illinois and not border the border you get your more fuel tax if you buy buy the gasoline from illinois