day will come to order the septum it is meeting today to receive testimony on the medi that initiative examining u s efforts to combat transnational criminal organizations it's my pleasure and pleasure to welcome you all to this timely hearing on the recent developments in combat transnational organized crime this year will give us a forum to examine the efforts goals and the possible implementation of the middy that initiative and its role in reducing crime and drug drug trafficking in mexico and in central america i look forward to receiving testimony from our two witnesses here in what their departments are doing with respect to the rise of transnational crime and their role in the medieval initiative recently the united states has seen a ris the operations of sophisticated crime organizations that have little regard for law enforcement and for our border officials we have seen this trend across the county the country including in my district in orange county california and more often than not these organizations maintain ties and structured operations in multiple countries with the increase of violence from drug cartels on the mexican side of the border places like wanna see that this is appropriate to be concerned about how this is affecting of the united states and the smuggling operations work through an intricate network of corrupt officers and secure smuggling routes on both sides of our border the many that initiative proposal was developed to stop these operations by implementing comprehensive cross border communication and collaboration interagency cooperation among and inclusion of all agencies that work on our borders and with foreign governments is essential for the success of this proposal our area of particular concern is ensuring that gang and drug cartel members who are deported from the united states do not continue their criminal behavior once they return to their home countries or worse that they come back once again into the united states to continue their work we must be able to coordinate with foreign authorities to ensure that these criminals are not allowed to go back into their local populations and we also need to prevent them from organizing further criminal efforts with their cartel counterparts in the united states coordination from multiple agencies in both countries is essential to achieving these goals and it must not be overlooked a concern of the subcommittee has the exclusion of the department of homeland security for many important faces of the initiative violence in central america and mexico affects the safety and the security of the united states and the department of see a commitment from all involved agencies that communication and collaboration are and will continue to be on the forefront once again i thank our witnesses for being here today i look forward to your testimony and  of cocaine two thousand nine hundred six pounds of meth and two point four million pounds of marijuana were seized along the southwest border of our ports of entry by the border patrol in fact two weeks ago one of the biggest in indiana history was made in my district consequences of the continued vulnerability along the border are clearly evident in the violent crime and drug related death rate throughout the united states in order in an effort to address the growing threat that ministration proposed aid package to mexico and central america thompson placed a request with the speaker for the committee on homeland security to have sequential referral on the merida initiative authorizing legislation moving through congress h r six hundred twenty eight i believe this is an issue that the committee can work together to enhance this bipartisan legislation while i believe that there is much more work that needs to be done to secure our borders i think that the reader offers a stork opportunity to partner with mexico and central america and work together on securing the region from drug traffickers since nine eleven we have spoken about the need to push our borders out and look for opportunities to detect threats before they reach the united states the read initiative is part of that philosophy and with appropriate controls and oversight could be a significant force wa in the counter narcotics fight and assist in securing the border i'd like to thank our witnesses for being here today i look forward to hearing from the department of state and homeland security on what they hope to achieve the reader and have how the progress will be monitored and how the partnership can help most for security especially in mexico at a time when violence directed at law enforcement is an all time high i am especially interested in getting better understanding of how d h s s is a valve to merida and what impact this will have on resources while i'm excited to discuss and read an issue we must understand that real low will not secure our border we must continue to provide adequate resources and of course materials to us law enforcement agencies are working hard to secure our homeland to that end  look forward in participating next week with my colleague mr why are the roll out of the ice operation armistice ottis to address cross border weapons smuggling these guns often end up in the hands of the drug cartels elevating the level of violence along the border and within mexico i would like to take a moment to express appreciation for the actions taken in mexico by the calderon administration over the past eighteen months to disrupt drug trafficking organizations and corruption often mexico only gets criticism it seems in the in the united states and it's important that we praise the initiatives of the calderon administration since president calderon entered office in two thousand and six mexico is allocated more than six point five billion to combat drug trafficking increase public security and what's really important political politically for americans to understand is it's largely our drug problems of cause islands in mexico and i'm really pleased that the mexican government has taken these rest and taken this leadership to try to address it as a transit through mexico head of the united states in two thousand and seven mexico seized a record fifty point seven tons of cocaine worth more than seven point six billion in street value in addition mexico  smuggle narcotics that are moving through mexico and coming into the united states also it is important that we recognize the sacrifice of mexico's law enforcement officers military personnel and the citizens of mexico who continue to be targeted by ruthless drug trafficking organizations more than four hundred military and law enforcement officers and two thousand six hundred fifty civilians have been killed in drug related murders we're also seeing an alarming increase in violence targeted at u s law enforcement along the border bilateral cooperation in the war on drugs is at an all time high in the merida initiative may be the best way to bring to the relationship with our regional partners i look forward to working and hearing with our from our witnesses about how the thank you very much it is a great pleasure to be before this committee today and it's an honor to be here to be able to articulate for you why the department of homeland security supports the matter and to lay out for you some of the unique competencies that brings to the table for this important undertaking before discussing the matter we must begin by acknowledging the violent and dangerous backdrop to this hearing in mexico drug cartels are waging war these drug cartels kill with impunity killing not only members of competing cartels but also the police and military who are attempting to protect mexican citizens from crime and ensure a strong and economically viable mexico parts of central america have become a transit zone for human arms money and narco traffickers transnational criminal organizations take advantage of circumstances where governments that may otherwise have the political will to counter transnational criminal activity lack the resources to do so neither this criminal phenomenon nor the violence of follows recognizes borders the us suffers from gang violence crime and the trafficking of people in narcotics with causes and effects across the border this is further compounded by the fact that the same activities to fund criminal organizations and move contraband can and may be used by terrorists to fund their activities and to move dangerous weapons and people indeed the threat posed by transnational criminal organizations in this region is as multifaceted and as dangerous as any this nation has faced this regional violence has become a border integrity issue and the marriage initiative is the u s government's response to the regional clime violence and drugs that are crossing our borders matter that is of course a multinational multi agency effort with many facets it represents a historic opportunity to transform our regional security cooperation and is a significant effort to confront the frets of organized crime that affects mexico central america and the united states our partners south of the border have called for assistance and that call must be answered let me speak a little bit about what d h s s can contribute to answering that call  in the merit initiative if if adopted by congress and if funded we offer many opportunities for assistance through immigration and customs enforcement c b p customs and border protection and the coast guard were charged with primary responsibility and authority of interdicting in investigating the vast majority of cross border criminal activity while we have a number of programs that already are in place many of which are in my testimony which compliment the merit initiative if the initiative will allow us to engage in multiple countries on the effective use of nonintrusive inspection equipment through this effort where fulfilling the unique c b p responsibility of helping to defend the front lines again on the fight against transnational crime another cd proby program analysis of advanced passenger information system helps of the collection and analysis of passenger information to detect an intraday those individuals who may pose a law enforcement immigration or national security risk as they travel in the air transit through this arrangement under mattered panama would be targeted for a pilot program in which we would assist them in the analysis of a p i data and allow us to then provide targeting information and assistance directly back to panamanian law enforcement agencies and train them in how to do this themselves ice equally offers the development of a fully operational multi disciplinary set of programs including the training of vetted units that work with our foreign government and one  with our government law enforcement agencies to interdict narcotics and trade illegal trade along the border if funded america would allow ice to provide participating governments with training and equipment for the establishment of bulk currency smuggling in the b c s use with the purchase of maritime surveillance aircraft for the mexican navy the u s coast guard would also contribute to the merit initiative by increasing the of the mexican navy's maritime surveillance aircraft with our own we are proposing to purchase for them the same platforms that our coast guard uses ensuring that if operational it would be full interoperability and ability to communicate in both tactical and operational ways our u s visit program would in conjunction with c b p and ice be positioned to assist the mexican national migration institute in nami to develop its integrated system for immigration operations through sharing our expertise on biometrics and technology in short we have an active role to play in the development of the merit initiative it is merit it is as i said the u s government's attempt to partner with foreign governments to increase regional security by fighting cross border and organized crime we are a strong advocate of the in merit initiative and the interagency the process that has developed we've been involved in all aspects of the planning and will continue to be  during implementation in conclusion the department of homeland security fully supports america because america offers us an unprecedented opportunity to work closely in partnership with the calderon administration in mexico with our other partners in central america and it will put the security relationship with our neighbors to the south on a new and different level that ultimately will benefit the homeland security interests of the united states thank you thank you secretary  t initiative because along with secretary rosenzweig we believe that confronting these challenges requires a complimentary effort not just on both sides of the border but across our nation's national security and law enforcement agencies i'd also like to express my gratitude for the support the congress has shown for the president's request for the initiative we're pre congress has included a substantial percentage of the funding requested and the f y two thousand and eight supplemental passed by the house and senate we look forward to working with you as the differences between these two bills result and we hope become law madam chairwoman over the past decade criminal organizations have grown in size and strength throughout mexico and central america to protect their lucrative and dangerous activities these organizations undermine and intimidate government institutions through bribery and violence directed at police politicians prosecutors and judges approximately ninety percent of the cocaine consumed in the united states transits through mexico and mexico is a major source of america's methamphetamine and marijuana but since taking office at the end of two thousand and six mexican president calderon has taken unprecedented action against drug trafficking networks that threaten his own people as well as our citizens here at home he's reorganized the federal police force deployed military forces to support police operations rooted out corrupt officials and extradited a record number of kingpins and other criminals to the united states over the past several weeks we've been witness several high profile assassinations of senior mexican law enforcement officials including that of the head of mexico's national police outside his home in the capital these brazen attacks strike at the heart of the rule of law they're clearly intended to deter the mexican government's efforts to confront organized crime mature woman in january i had the opportunity to visit mexico city and then the border in el paso with intelligence committee chairman ray is having served at the beginning of my foreign service career as vice consul in ciudad juarez i have a special appreciation of the opportunities of that border community on my visit in january i was struck by the possible concern in el paso that the violence in mexico could soon spill over into american border communities indeed drug trafficking gang violence and other criminal activity in mexico and central america are readily apparent in communities across our country these transnational threats require transnational solutions and american issue to our proposal to assist our southern neighbors in their confrontation with this threat this initiative grew out of president bush's trip to mexico and central america in two thousand and seven during that visit president calderon and the then president guatemalan president berger told the president that organized crime was their highest challenge and they wanted to work more closely with each other and with the united states to confront it to respond quickly to this urgent threat to take advantage of this is opportunity to improve our own security cooperation in the region the president included five hundred fifty million for the mirror the initiative and the f y two thousand and eight supplemental request and another five hundred fifty million in the f y two thousand and nine regular budget request the first year includes five hundred million for mexico and fifty million for central america and the second includes four hundred fifty million for mexico and one hundred million for central america if appropriated this funding would provide equipment including transport helicopters surveillance aircraft and inspection equipment and training to strengthen the capacity of law enforcement judicial and corrections institutions the president's request also includes funding to enhance  vetting and to address criminal you gangs money laundering and drug demand equipment and activities included in the president's request determined through a comprehensive interagency assessment of the host nation's requests by voluntary validation teams of u s experts representing all elements of our national security and law enforcement community i want to assure the committee that if funding is appropriated i will work with our inner agency partners to see that it is utilized properly that appropriate financial controls are in place and enhanced as our own law enforcement objectives and that the programs are operated as efficiently as we possibly can as an other state department managed law enforcement assistance programs no funding would be  provided directly to these countries and all training and equipment will be subject to monitoring your intended purpose the background of all recipients of assistance will be checked for allegations of human rights violations corruption and ties to narco traffickers for aviation assets which have been requested only for mexico we made an effort to support airframes in which mexico has already invested to reduce the need for a long term operations a gain madam chairwoman thank you for the opportunity to appear before you we believe these programs can have an immediate positive impact on these countries ability to meet these challenges and the closer and regional cooperation will pay dividends  drug wars and because of the clampdown that's been going on by president calderon believe me i think all of us are very appreciative of the fact that government has taken on a very difficult thing to really go down given some of the indications and some of the violence that's been going on in the baja california peninsula my constituents are asking the same thing when i look at th we have an administration now willing to confront it and to deal with it to make significant steps in improving the rule of law and reforming institutions in mexico i think will put us on a significant different footing than we have been in the past i can't predict for you that the level of violence will drop off markedly in the very short term but i think i am comfortable telling you that i believe that with the provision of this equipment in th technical assistance missions for foreign governments we often look to our partners at the department of state for assistance and funding of this nature and under the maryland that we do the border region under the  understand that there are many pieces as david said to this puzzle certainly much of what we need to do in south america and mexico and central america is work that is outside of competence and hansing the prosecutorial structures of our neighbors and their ability to prosecute crimes that's something that the people at the department of justice know a great deal about and we know nothing about likewise  some of the military training that will go to the mexican military is something that is completely outside of our particular competence so let me state it in a positive way by saying that the types of things that we want to do that we think we can tribute to and that if funded and passed through we will do our things like purchasing for mexican customs non intrusive inspection equipment in the million dollar range so how many we can provide how much training we can provide is a function of how much you appropriate congress appropriates and how much of what you appropriate gets assigned to this particular task  around the world it's generally proven very effective the central american area is a well known transit point across the isthmus for drug money going north and south and that would be an ideal opportunity for us so i could perhaps go on for a great deal of time course there is so much we could bring to the table but i certainly don't want to leave you with the impression that there's that we have all of the answers of you know worldwide phenomenon where people get more money and they start to consume things that they shouldn't and in addition to things that they should i wouldn't know how to quantify that at this point but as i mentioned in my testimony  ninety percent plus range of the cocaine coming into the united states coming from mexico the amount of marijuana coming from mexico into the united states is significant for a reason that is usually under appreciated most of the marijuana consumed in the united states is actually produced here the mexican organized crime groups are some of some of their operating some of the production here and in addition they are using on the methamphetamine the large labs are mostly in mexico and not in the united states on the positive side mexico is made as some extreme steps in confronting the precursor issue as in fact banned all use for legitimate as well as illegitimate purposes of the precursors in mexico requiring they're the people who have the common cold there to use a different formulary but what i think  when you go through what you just did i think one of the most important people things for the american people and the people of mexico for that matter central america to understand is this isn't the united states coming in trying to help address domestic problems in different countries that in fact the problem has grown and caused the term while in most of these countries just as it did in colombia afghanistan libya piru to some degree why are we trying to deal with mexico look we aggravated the problem therefore if mexico is willing to work with us we have an obligation to work with them because we export our problems to them and that that this kind of supernaturalism is not understanding a basic phenomena here that in that there is also a difference and the reason homeland security becomes critical and this is a difference between afghanistan colombia and other places is they don't have a border you don't just go back and forth across to afghanistan and in colombia therefore it's essential that we try to work work to the border side yet another challenge here is that and this is this is when we're we're coming in at this scale respecting each country's desire and mix one other thing in the homeland security when we look at this committee and you look at the department of homeland security people think of it as like a picket fence border but in fact the corps coast guard is down in the caribbean down in the eastern pacific and that's part of the part where the land security ice investigations with c b p air are all the way down in colombia they're all over and that department of homeland security is not border exclusive so those things are important to get out as we talk about the merida initiative now in colombia and in bolivia and i we had the same kind of basic dilemmas where you see the violence and you see the transit and all this type of thing but one of the things we early on invested in whether it was the the colombian national police  it's partly cut off the head of the big groups go after the big labs go after the big networks which we've been trying to do or provide them helicopters and technical equipment what we've done or do in fact how do we deal with this border question because if the violence is right along our border it's over both directions and some of that appears to be woefully underpaid police on the other side who are intimidated to black protection who when they try to enforce the law along the border and is there anything in the package that is responding to that portion or is the package too small because we need to go after the big pieces of equipment but what is mexico this is an opportunity to give us a real defense in depth not just right at the border but because the elements of our other law enforcement agencies are both on the border on our side but they're also working with their counterparts in mexico city we already have a program in mexico city funded at the level of thirty seven million dollars per year on law enforcement assistance this initiative gives us the opportunity to greatly expand that and we have some success stories already with nondestructive and testing equipment to intrusive surveillance vetted units that we are going to seek to build on here so i think we we re building on a program which is already begun on the investment in law enforcement a significant part of the training here is for training for law enforcement it's to provide mexico with the ability to vet their entire federal police force in order through polygraphs and through background investigation so that they have a greater reliance on the integrity of their federal police force but i don't want to give you false assurances here what this doesn't provide funding for and what this doesn't target is the state and local people and those are the faces of that many people see it at the border and i think in a second wave if you will that's something we'll want to talk to the mexicans about but this is a very big issue it's a big country and so i think the plus up that we're talking about here will give us a substantial effort in order to seek to address the problem let me let me answer your question in kind of three parts the first is is to agree with you completely that what we've come to understand at the department of homeland security is that homeland security in fact begins overseas we have more than two thousand people from our department stationed overseas in an operational capacity on a daily basis roughly thirty thirty five percent of those are in canada and mexico in the caribbean precisely because those areas are the ones that are closest to the homeland and i like david's phrase concent circles this concentric circle closest to us what i often say is that a border is like a point it has two faces and anything that happens on one side of the border one side of the coin affects the other faces well we have as you know already be operation against smugglers program both of which are cooperative programs in which we work hand in hand with our mexican counterparts that you mentioned earlier a new one that is just starting up the which is an ice operated program to work against the flow of guns southward into mass to mexico that's going to require cooperation with a t f and with our mexican counterparts what w do in this is the third part of my answer is actually builds on those foundational relationships and expand them by allowing us to provide better training better technical assistance more equipment and then this is the hardest part to quantify but and build relationships that are sustainable in a long term way for a long time and the u s mexican relationship has reflected a great deal of of tension because of the nature of our border and the nature of our history and from our perspective from the perspective of c b p border patrol folks on the ground represents a unique opportunity to work a cooperative way no longer pointing fingers at each other across the border but to ramp up in a in a in a literally a step function the degree of our cooperative relationship if we can do this will represent a significant opportunity for us potential and and and i look to support it i do have some questions mainly focused on coordination planning and implementation on the one hand as well as training  because of the lodge investment would be making it's obviously extremely important that the department is involved in every step of the planning and implementation of the initiative  so my question here is are you satisfied with the level of involvement that the department has had in the formulation of the merida initiative and what can be done to improve communication channels among all the different departments asking someone who participates on a day to day basis in the interagency process how he likes it is a bit like asking for the self assessment of a marriage or something like that there are there are ups and downs but by and large it's been quite cooperative we're working hard with our interagency partners to prioritize this to a great degree how much we will do will depend a lot on how much funding we get overall so  process becomes very easy if the pie is very big it becomes harder as scarce resources are competed over that's the nature of the beast i'm afraid i certainly anticipate that the existing process will i think have to have to this point i can't envision the creation of a formal coordinating structure at this point the existing think actually has been an extraordinary degree of cooperation among the interagency law enforcement and national security team on this working through the initial assessment working through how the implementation has to be economic problem of scarcity which always exists i think we've done a good job thus far and when and as were provided with appropriate funds we intend to make whatever changes are required because of that but to do it basis if there is indeed a sole source which is which is argued for because of the unique nature of equipment we will do that but we will we will sharpen our pencil just as far as we can because we want this money to go as far as we can make it go and there will indeed be private sector teams involved where appropriate particularly on the training for highly technical equipment so that the equipment can be operated affected at the same time we'll be bringing in those who operate similar equipment in the united states so that they can build those relationships and profit from the data that's generated thank you thank you  before running for congress i served in the justice department in the u s attorney's office terrorism and i had a large portion of the mexican border in my jurisdiction and even then we could see the threat from the drug cartels  controlling the routes into this country exporting the drugs to human trafficking in the post nine eleven world increased in terms of what is coming into this country i think we've done a lot but i think the best defense is a good often sometimes i think if we can take this fight the drug cartels directly through a military strategy that that will get to the root cause of so many of the problems that we have on the border and i went down to mexico city on a homeland security delegation met with president calderon and i was struck by the sincerity of the political will to actually get something done in terms of security his dedication thirty thousand troops to the border is significant and he asked for our assistance at the same time we have a long force on our side who were outgunned and outmanned on the foreign affairs committee on which we marked up this initiative and i had an amendment that would provide equal funding for law enforcement on this side of the border primarily through the process operation streamline and other programs this committee so we have a chance to mark this and show some oversight on this initiative but it seems to me that we ought to be also talking about providing funding to the department of homeland security to provide a more comprehensive border security strategy on both sides we can hit the drug cartels on the mexican side and then provide resources necessary to defend defend our side of the border  is and if you could mr johnson talk about to me about the package for anti corruption a lot of my constituents are concerned about the corruption mexico and how this will be dealt with and also what type of metrics you would use to quantify success here we were successful in doing this in colombia seems to me if we do this right we can be success in this initiative as well i couldn't agree with you more that our approach to the border requires a cooperative relationship across that we have through operational programs that i just cried earlier  d can i get you i mean obviously we have a long detailed wish list of things ranging from operation fire wall which is an ice counter counter arms program that that could well more funding formal requests for money have to be cleared through the hospice of proposal for mexico well allow us to train mexican law enforcement so that it can do its polygraph and background investigations ultimately for the entire mexican  will be building vetted units so that we are more sure of who we're dealing with on an informational side but we'll be moving that process as rapidly as we can assisting the mexicans in their own vetting process but i  think the larger issue is the real reform of the justice system in mexico there's a portion of this which also provides for a point system so that there is a greater transparency and a greater trust in the rule of law in mexico and we in the house worth about sixty one point five million dollars with money for haiti and other countries as well this is exclusively for these countries as an additional four hundred million dollars in the house bil handed additional three hundred million dollars beliefs three hundred fifty million dollars in the senate bill and i'm mentioning haiti because i know that your plate is full but because it has evolved into a  look at an opportunity i believe to try to combat this problem in the hemisphere as opposed to isolated and one area i just want to mention to you something about haiti because i just visited haiti and for those who may not be aware haiti has a has unemployment rate of about sixty six percent poverty rate is eighty percent seventy percent of the people live off of less than two dollars a day about fifty six percent of the people live off of less than one dollar per day has the highest aids rate in the western hemisphere we have four seasons haiti has five in addition to the four that we have haiti has a hunger season a hunger season when people prognosticate that people will be hungry and that some may perish i mention this because we met with president preval and he indicated what i'm hearing with reference to president calderon a desire to have assistance from the united states government to help with the drug trafficking haiti is becoming a station if you will between the u s and other places for drug dealers to stage their activities and he has given the same clarion call for help and i'm very pleased to see that their money is going to haiti to provide some assistance we have a big problem it is it is one that requires a comprehensive security plan that includes what you are doing combined with what's happening at the border itself coordinated among all of the various entities that can can make this work for us because it is not just while i i want us to deal with the land border it also is the border between haiti and the united states and we have to concern ourselves with too and we have all of this to police to protect the american people so my question to you is can you give me as quickly as you can because my time has is quickly moving some indication of how we are doing with the the haitian portion of what this has evolved into congressman thank thank you very much the the threat of export of particularly cocaine is not just in haiti but because of the behavior of the venezuelan government in particular and allowing its border region to be used as a transit zone as infected affected the entire island of hispaniola also in american republic and so we have programs in both sides of the island to help deal with this they are not large the monies that you mentioned that are in i believe the the senate bill that are directed to haiti and the dominican republic are not part of the administration's proposal so we do not yet have developed programs as to how those monies might be spent anything i would say to you today would be would be speculative but let me let me say this then given that i have one hundred seconds i trust that the plans will be developed because one of the great human tragedies of our time is occurring just off the coast of florida in haiti and it is a staging area now it is going to evolve into more if we don't do more final comment is this we have to deal with the movers and to with two methodologies one arrest lock up punish but we also have to deal with those who prospect movers and we need madam chair and some of our cities major urban areas some job programs for young people for people who find themselves without opportunities and who may engage in some activities that i don't condone i think you can you can be poor not be a criminal but seems that poverty is attracting a lot of people to criminality so my contention is this is bigger than what we're talking about today although this is what we have to deal with today and i respect what you're doing but this is this is a major major concern in the inner cities of this country because the movers that we are dealing with today can be replaced with persons from areas of the country that we live in and i think that has to be dealt with thank you just briefly  congressman i don't want to leave you with the misimpression that is not engaged in haiti we have a number of people there many of whom are doing precisely the counter narcotics strengthening already even in the absence of the method that you're talking about we have a substantial number of coast guard presence presence who are working in the region with the haitian government  be happy at some juncture to come and give you more detail about precisely what we're doing there as with as with america we could always use more resources to provide that sort of assistance but i wouldn't want you to feel or  thank you mr grain and i would just mention that as you know i'm a big supporter of the jobs programs for youth and very disappointed that it has been cut out from the supplemental will do everything we can and i agree with you especially narcotics with the state for twenty five years and tell me it's difficult sometimes working with the mexican side because sometimes you don't know who's a good apple and who's the bad apple but it's one of those things that intelligence is so important to us  i just want to emphasize the intelligence part of it the information that you work with them because it is very very very important that we continue doing this but i would ask you to do a e it's not part of an issue if you will we have not included you know some aspect of it on the other hand the types of things that are part of this initiative build the rule of law so that we can support the very thing that you're talking about and make the border safer if i could i would like your permission to look into how more specifically the efforts we have here would reinforce the search for the missing and get initiative is an important one and i agree that there are so many different elements that need to be addressed certainly mexico is done more than we have in some of these areas i mean to completely ban precursor chemicals we haven't done that and certainly i admire their efforts to bring transparency and reform of their criminal justice system and that is a difficult thing to do and something that they're moving forward on and it's quite admirable when you think about the number of people that have been lost in mexico in the fights with the drug cartels as thousands of people have lost their lives in this fight and so certain those are important efforts they are making and i personally believe that we have an obligation to cooperate with with mexico were injured interdependent with them and we share the north american continent with them it's our americans who are consuming the drugs moving across the northern border but i want to focus i know it's not the only issue but when i met with the mexican attorney general last year it was an issue he raised but the flow of arms south to them which is just completely unacceptable and i know your testimony touch briefly on that but i'd like to focus on what more we need to do i mean it's not just you know handguns and rifles i mean machine guns it's even you know shoulder missiles i mean it's it's it's unacceptable and some of it is you know interdiction but i think we need to do a more aggressive job of of what kind of things are available for export because it's making their job almost impossible can either one of you address that let me let me let me take a swing at that for starters the the flow of arms and weaponry southward is of grave concern to the mexicans and of equally great concern to canine units some of whom can be trained for explosive detection which is which is effective expansion of training programs south of the border and has cooperated relationships all of them of course i think in partnership with a t f who has who has a commensurate interest but what we see kind of as the core of what we need to do  established a ate an arms trafficking intelligence subunit epic to what is precisely on this problem if we had additional resources would lead accomplish more  are being acquired in the united states for transit you know it's precisely why this is this is clearly an issue that requires a partnership between the domestic right side of the house for finding the illegal manufacturers who are making the  gun license manufacturers who are making the sales here winking at up to the intelligence about the cross border and we have found generally that the border is a great choke point to do the interdiction because of course it's there  that we haven't discussed is is there are some pieces of the drafthouse authorization bill that seems to ignore the international component of this trafficking and focus exclusively on the domestic side so in the end i imagine we'll want to work to try and incompetent all of those are my time is running out i'll just advance the opinion that america would be safer if we use more of our resources on this weapon for spanish surname conventions we've also made that database not just in the embassy in mexico city but in all of our consulates in mexico giving mexican law enforcement a greater opportunity to use that system in that database in order to trace weapons that have been seized in mexico thank you land border it isn't just like every other traditional international area that we work with and trying to figure out how we handle this jurisdiction here how we handle it  in our different agencies is a different challenge and i think looking at how we do the best teams the teams in this type of thing need ask are those all run through the state department no so those are operational programs that are are generally funded out of operational mission authorities within the department of homeland security and likewise within the justice a t f but they work internationally they work in a cooperative arrangement with international we have mexican officials who are members of liaison officers who part of our best teams for example the canadian officers as well on the northern border in the challenge here is that the funding stream determines how the decisions are made aware it goes through and other words if it's going directly to another government it goes to the state department but it's going to ice and then ice do you find in the best programs any law enforcement on in mexico or canada you provide any and do those funds that you do do they run through the state department or they run directly for you as you said the training and technical assistance funding that goes directly to a foreign government traditionally goes through the state department in terms of best in ice we do not some we're not permitted to fund actual operations of the mexican federal police or mexican customs or any of the other operational agencies so the answer to question is a small degree this is where we hit where the rubber hits the road so i think we need to think about how we can work on that together mr souder i thank the witnesses for their valuable testimony and the members for their questions and the members of the subcommittee may have additional questions for the witnesses we will ask you to respond expediently in writing to those questions and have a no for their business the subcommittee stands adjourned thank you gentl