to the election of the chair it as i've said the past offers no guidance on however as to what the manager should do while presiding and i've always kind of taken a charming approach taken the extra time to offer words of wisdom although the sport is course a very experienced board and has many years of wisdom wrapped up in the numbers  facts and tonight's going to be no exception there's an interesting array of topics on the agenda but i want to start off with a couple facts of my own first i want to was wondering if you knew that right that's right ted newsy answer if i had a prize i'd give it to you i guess to fill that out a little bit in the nineteenth century they had carnival games like much like they have now but they're geared more towards  ts and so instead of stuffed animals they often get cigars and so they obviously were targeted towards adults and so the guy running the game  as the chair of the select board so i will call for a vote all those in favor of i should ask are there any other nominations here and then call for a vote all those in favor please indicate by saying  operates on according during the course of the year and one of the attachments of the meeting schedule meeting schedule again falls pretty much the same schedule this year but for tuesdays except in december january we have more meetings because of budget it's been to understanding tire of the town and the call was to that the outdoor center would continue to operate their programs and  maintain the twenty mile trail system out there so that town residents and visitors can continue to enjoy these manatees with limited additional allocation of resources from the that that is fair and reasonable i have provided to you the draft agreement and also the memo summarizing the difference if you would like i can  go through the entire agreement or if you know if you have no particular sections that you'd rather focus on either way your preference i'm actually in the particular know you wish to question the questions when i asked that we just kind of go through and maybe hit the high points on each section kind of are the major terms that we would be interested in yeah the time yeah i would be happy to do that an outdoor center and whether you know they could do a good job running it but the question has to do with is it appropriate i don't know i don't know how to exactly ask the question so let me muddle through it is it appropriate for the town to in a sense only negotiate with one entity you know for instance we have procurement policies and we have to go get you know with at least three bids that type of thing right so this is asking the question of is this the appropriate mechanism to choose if you will does that make sense it does make sense right and correct me if i'm wrong but at this point because of the property owner we don't have really any choice as i understand it so so yes yes so as part of the terms be contingent on the outdoor center continuing to be the entity that runs their programs until they no longer want to do that and subject to the terms and they have checked the terms of the license agreement so if i were to kind of rephrase that if i were if the slug board were to let's say of judge just totally hypothetically that could put this whole deal in jeopardy yeah yeah i did i guess i didn't realize i'm glad you brought that up because i didn't realize that's what this was about so they're basically setting conditions down upon which we would secure the property for the town that says the only way we're going to transfer this to the town is if we have the catamount or family center organization run it give cording to terms and conditions of the license agreement which is why you're would we want this because does that take i guess because i don't know i haven't read through all the details here well frankly i my preferences would not be having the exactly in addition tackling but that's that's  there's a section here that talks about i hope you don't mind me interrupting got off thing i've done it twice already tonight could you explain just real briefly the conservation easement verses the land that the town is going to actually own the land trust and vermont housing and conservation board and the purpose of the conservation easement is so the land will be protected perpetually protected for free public access  criteria in which the town will get that for lack of better words operational that's correct and that's that would be similar to other town properties like my pond country park and  there is there are provisions to terminate the agreement earlier if either party is not holding up their side of the agreement the basically there is no we're not we wouldn't be charging  with how can on a door center its managing or taking care of its and of the green that for we come to the conclusion is not living up to their end of the agreement we have the ability to terminate that's that's and we kind of reached a stalemate to a certain extent and their argument for a ten year versus five year was that they plan to make investments in those  investments you know if they make them early in the contract five years is it isn't enough time to really recover that we're that's why they're arguing for a ten year do you mind if i just chime in with one other and they also pointed types of agreements ten years it varies widely and actually one example i have is are you familiar with the lim well valley rail trail yes actually i so familiar with it physically not how it right well also in that case the vast has developed the rail trail it has an agreement a license to use the rail corridor with the trans and that the term of that i believe is twenty years or twenty five years it might be longer so you know it it's not uncommon to have that length of time good things for a lot of vermont mountain biking association where they work with private landowners and sometimes towns  for licensees are the they used ten year agreement because of the amount of time volunteer time and cost that the group puts into creating and maintaining the trails to it and they kind of don't want that with recreational uses on it so that was why that question so under permitted uses all the uses of the property have to adhere to the conditions of the conservation easement and the community forest management plan which is being worked on right now and the outdoor center would be responsible for maintaining and improving the trails within the twenty mile trail network as well as maintaining any structures that he uses on the property and there are some restrictions  around when trees can be removed and if and the construction of new trails both of those things unless the only tree removal that's allowed it is hazard trees or trees that are fallen over trails are in danger of falling over trails other than that they would have to get permission from the town and the land trust to remove any trees or construct new trails the maintenance of the seven bridges are you coping i guess the best way to asset is are you comfortable that that's a workable yes it is the way it read here is it sounded a little for lack of better words loose ok yeah  yes so the town is agreed to take responsibility meaning we will pay for the materials to construct the seven bridges and the outer center will assist by providing their labor and equipment to construct the foot there are you know a foot bridge is there not like major river stream cross ok just to add a point on that is at least some of those we have a outstanding grant application to vermont recreation trails grant program to cover some of the costs of that some of the ice if you cannot do a family center and the town is successful at that grantham it's not going to come out of your budget and i was for nine thousand and change ice ridges well that also included the grant also included other bridges that they wanted to build on the sides the seven structures they had like some short  structures over ditches and then after the initial a bridge those bridges are done the outdoor center would be responsible for maintaining those crossings in good  repair so the second section of under maintenance talks about the development of an annual maintenance plan which will be done cooperatively between the town and the outdoor center basically covering the trail network and any areas that are used by the outdoor center and the way that that plan would work is in the fall and believe it's october town staff one town staff person maybe probably myself will take a walk around the trail system with a representative of the outdoor center and we will you know talk about what improvements they want to make and then they will submit a maintenance plan to the town which then gets reviewed and approved and adjusted if necessary and then once once that town plan that  t and and then you see is just you know trail maps will be readily available for to the public and any maintenance and construction needs to adhere to trail best management practices there are various manuals that are out there vailable for that detail those best management practices and specifically  they are helping them with signage and i actually i was out there this afternoon before i came to this meeting doing some skiing and i noticed a lot of the sign and sure round so that was nice to see it had a start at least on number please bear in mind that this is the world i work in a little bit is this concept of force land is a potential source of nutrients to lake champlain so he's kind of a you know could become a sticky point down the road if somebody has to implement some sort of forced management to minimise runoff minimi nutrients sediment i don't know the lay of the land well enough to know what the potential there is any thoughts on that i mean this is not a showstopper playing chance right it's more curious when i saw that you know no activity shall is that you know we're making every effort that we can to be really conscious of how the trail construction could have been a negative impact on water quality and to try and mitigate those impacts whenever part and wherever possible and just be conscious about that that's one advantage of this property is if it's not too m where i was just going to add as a mountain biker i find it plenty steeper time so the section six the community forest plan conservation so this just describes the process for if there are amendments to the community forest plan that may restrict the uses of the outdoor center and how that's going to be negotiated so that this agreement is consistent with the plan and vice versa of the plan and is consistent with this agreement and informational signs that's that just says you know that it's ok to have informational size on the property as long as it's you know described under the annual plan and it's compliance with it's in compliance with all clickable regulations and also there and i mentioned grant funding requirements because the federal for community forest grant does require us to have some science about civil rights compliance with civil rights it's kind of a i don't know seems like an a novel thing but they specify what type of wording was post news and that we're supposed special events to just this provides a process for cooperation between the town and the outer center around scheduling special events on the property so  easement so maybe i'm reading it wrong so i'm reading it that the town must approve whatever the c e o of c submits to them you're saying the tone must approve them as it's kind of a play on words  used and who dictates how the property will be used is that entirely now with the c o f c not at all with the town is that with this so the the management plan well that is  whine because you know i was going to be used i was going to manage so because i'm still interested in hearing about what the this group that you put together we voted to put together yeah  right and so so this agreement is really we tried to kind of separate this agreement out although it will be attached to the you know it'll be an attachment to the management plan but it is a separate agreement between the town and the outdoor center it does i i hear that can that it is a little confusing that you know which pieces will be handled by which entity but i think y that the outer center can charge fees for they're allowed to charge fees that are reasonable to support their operations fees can't be charged for pedestrian use which is defined as walking running snowshoeing and sliding that is that happens not in connection to any events so if people are on the property they're attending a catamount after santa family center event but you know but they're also walking they have to pay the event fee but if people just come out of property and they're walking on property there's no charge for that or they're running on the property or s is that everybody ok with that i'm fine with that just i wonder if there's going to be conflicts you know potentially down the road with that you know maybe the outdoor centers interpretation of when a fee should be charged versus maybe the town's interpretation or do you think it sufficiently clear i think it's pretty clear  beg your pardon i don't believe there's been a conflict to date how it's running now because when they charge and don't charge i don't it doesn't seem like that's going to be an issue when you're thinking you know the first is might be there's a running race going on like there is yes every tuesday night but i choose to i just want to go run yeah pretty damn it for it to be the type thing where i'm feel like i'm being told i should buy a ticket and i'm like wait a second maybe i don't need to or not t effort to inform people that go use the property you know race nights or these nights you might want to you know walk on the other side of the road or you know like just just indicate what trails are being used for the races and but i guess we have to read the whole question i mean i think in the case where somebody wants to go there to run and they're running the race course along with the other i mean i think there would be a kind of a unique situation getting back to my home burketown force example here nobody's ever charge there so it never ends up being a conflict this is this is kind of unique and maybe just to recognize that the uniqueness of this yeah you know ok under section eleven trail closure so basically the town ca close trails if there is there or there is degradation of natural resources due to trail abuse or money conditions if there's a plan timber harvest if we any safety closures for safety reasons because i think that would increase the town's liability exposure to kind of take any responsibility for safety closures so we're leaving that in the hands of the trail quarter manager and then under section twelve town reserved rights so the town  s talks a lot about timber management about the town's right to conduct forest management practices and and kind of you know trying to minimize the disruption to recreational activities on the property and this and repairing damage to the trail system that's incurred by force management activities and also have the right to access the property by motorized vehicles if it's necessary for maintenance or emergency purposes again be careful not to minimize to minimize the disruption to the  trails and also have the right to hold special events on the property or to invite others to hold special events provided that we cooperate with and give adequate notice to the outdoor center that we  and the town of course has the right to permit free public pedestrian access with certain condition anybody done any research or question or do you have any information you can give us yeah so jennifer did some research on this she spoke with our insured and they were recommending that the outdoor center increase its liability limit currently one million and they were recommending that they increased two million and nothing really trying to think if there were other red flags  i think you know this this wouldn't be any more liability than any other of the town property is really  and this but i can't help it's lawyer and me are we going to have like is the town going to be actively involved in looking and seeing and being aware that the property is being properly maintained or we're relying on c o s c because yeah i mean i think about going i think we need well yeah i see i think i see where you're going i mean i think well i think we need to have our eye on it but are you are you thinking that like by if we have any oversight there were you know i just think you have i think if you vigilant i mean ted and i can both sit there and go it's so sue happy and people sue over the stupid is then rolled over something that should have been handled by the outdoor center that we're now going to have to absorb all kinds of fees and time getting ourselves out of which we really have nothing to do with but we will in fact be held last before you know i agree i think i  about any undue burden on the town especially given have sue happy society seems right well the reason i say that is just that i think that people are featured are vigilant and they  if there's any issues on our trails like they're they're pretty they're not hesitant to call the cops to call us up and let us know so in that sense like you have community the communities eyes looking out for it but we also need to look out as well and make parting comment would be it only takes one person so i completely agree with what you're saying i understand it and would hope that that's the case but it does only take that one person so will be reviewed on an annual basis when when the annual plan gets reviewed and this agreement can't be assigned to a different party  town and the outer center sponsible for obtaining all local state and federal permits as required for any activities it conducts on the property and the town agrees to be a call applicant  provides that the outer center can use the existing structures and property but that they're also responsible for the maintenance of those structures and if they wish if they want to make substantial capital improvements to the property such as constructing a new building to support their recreational operations that this will be done under separate agreement and in any agreement will spell out things like you know if either the town will agree to it that they will own the structure and they will share in the cost of the improvement or if they don't agree to own the structure the center will have to remove the building or other improvement upon terminations of license agreement they're also responsible for maintaining the existing structures and any future structures on the property but the town will assist them in applying for grants and or support their brand applications to help cover the cost s and improvements or structures right now what structures are and are going to be on the town property so currently there are three structures there's two small sheds i think they both how's the haunted forests those are in the woods or in the woods and then there's the sheep barn which is on governor chin in road and it's being used to house yeah the parking lot so the town use is the house the macaw house that's that's not going to be on town property only ok it's about forty acres that they're retaining and it's it's right along the roadside and that was retained because its conservation value was fairly low and rich by excluding those lands from the from the community forest we met a federal money wire meant that the property be seventy five percent forested because that that land that was kind of carved out was not forced and so it kind of boosted up the rest of the property to meet that reform could be subdivided in the future by the macaws and it could be yeah  responsible for all costs associated with light the lighting up their trail network they currently have and the parking lot they currently have one of their trails called the night trail that's just  the section that we previously talked about the terminations section called terminations it describes a mechanism by which the license agreements can be terminated in the event that either party fails to comply with the agreement and there's a section on dispute resolution basically in the case that disputes can't be resolved through informal  provides that mediation will be the next step in seeking resolution playing an example of how the agreement would be terminated so you know would notify them you know you need to stop and also replace the trees that you cut down and they have thirty days to remedy that br h and if they don't make an effort within three days  let me for your questions just to remind everyone that the board isn't being asked out just some point when we get close to the closing time you will be asked so if you have any objections terminate on october thirty twenty first twenty but the town has to send the licensee a notice not later than april thirtieth twenty twenty eight providing notice of the terminations date in the morning is kind of weird that we have to do that since it's right there  maybe if we just give them a copy of the contract on april thirtieth and say here is the contract that you signed there's the date right there i just think that's going to we're curious about it i think part of it is is that october is the end of their kind of summer season they do a lot of planning for the summer camps and whatnot so they want to know earlier about whether the town is going to continue this relationship or not and whether we're going to update the license whether there's going to be changes to the license with it with a lot of notice before the termination date that would be great i'm not sure that's what that does though is that if they want to say you know the parties will commence negotiation  you know no later than april thirtieth twenty twenty eight two for renewa is renewed for another ten year term at the option of the licensee not the town provided that the town consents to such renewal which consentual not be unreasonably withheld so long as licensee is operating the property consistently with the terms of this agreement meaning that you know as long as a licensee can come in and say look you know we've been doing this within the terms of the agreement so we're going to keep doing it under those terms and you don't you know it is beyond reasonable for you to withhold your agreement or that because we're doing we're going to do what we've always done and you didn't give us notice that we were violating it so armor that it doesn't give the town very much negotiating power and that's you know we all are eight licensee is obligated to have general liability insurance which should protect the town that's good that's going to be an additional insured under the policy that's also good two things one is that the next sentence licensee shall agreed not to terminate such coverage without at least sixty days prior written notification to the town just got curious about that why why would if they have to provide insurance why would they also have to tell us you're allowing them to switch switch insurers because then you do want to word it entirely differently but that doesn't even need to be here you're allowing them to switch so that they can shop their insurance that's one thing but i would word it differently and the other the other part of that i mean the whole concept here is to inde often that licensee will hold the town harmless and indemnify the town for any losses costs expenses associated with claims damages lawsuits well that's a good point if you think of something as if it's the how to to to make changes i don't have legal feedback obviously but my feedback is i'm i'm i was a little surprised by this i guess just by being told that you know we're going to continue to run this or you're not going to get the property in my first inclination of ok keep the property in so if you know jerk kneejerk reaction to being told that now we have conditions because i don't remember us discussing those conditions before me i look at you know a caretaker of the property it's a it's a property that the town is i think using money you know from several i don't know how many years to purchase along with grants and the raf and break well we put another two hundred thousand dollars into the fund the sheriff so sore spending a lot of town pair money and we're being told to one of the conditions is to give it to somebody else to take care of and in the tone really has no say has pointed out astutely that we have little power they can continue to do this forever as long as they don't go outside the terms of the and less so i guess i have a general problem with the way that's done and i'm not sure that was the intent when we heard all the presentations gives a year ago or more so i guess i have to read my head around that first because it's kind of a surprise and a financial perspective i just wonder what the townspeople will think you know what if what if the fees for mountain biking go up i don't know triple because they want to build a night and i'm not saying they would do this or it certainly one thing jim mccoll here were in that place of the thread there for many years but i heard that they have big ideas so if they want to do a lot of improvements board because they are approvers of the management plan and the management plan has to provide for the the fees in it so they could say these fees are too hard for too high for you know the general public usage here you're not does the director salary of the town own forest become so high that we start hearing complaints well why are you know why are we having this situation where we taxpayers bought the property and now the director of this thing is turning and it's turning into a two hundred fifty thousand dollars not that it would but i'm just i'm sure that's way outside the bounds of but i'm just wondering whether those questions will eventually eventually come up and then i like the idea of five years we we see how it goes on and in see would comments we get from the public as well from the standpoint if we do buy it you know what's the feedback on what we're using it for and when i i think when we first started one of my one of the comments i made when we did our you know election discussions and some of the big topics for the town it just seemed appropriate to buy a mountain biking center is that we're doing our or buying the catamount family center to create or to buy a mountain biking center if it's going to stay it's kind of what i think of catamount as i think that's what people think it's a mountain biking center is that what it's going to be it's going to be a mountain biking center that the totals or a for for a fee mountain biking sort of the totals on that point if you don't mind i view catamount as so much more than biking center yeah mountain biking is probably what it's best known for her place and what's kind of neat about it it's what it's not best known for because sometimes you kind of get it to yourself so i hear a labor that's absolutely correct but it is it is a resource that i think is so much more than the mountain biking it's just the mountain but for some reason seems to be what everybody thinks of but i would argue it's so much more  find a section i want to see tightened up and that was terminations under twenty two it securely with regard to noncompliance at like to see that tightened up and much more definitive do you have language suggestions or say i take probably i have more problems with the last part of the sentence which is if the breaching party commences good faith efforts to cure the alleged noncompliance of such noncompliance cannot be cured within such thirty days such time breaching party should have an additional reasonable period i would like all of that tightened up so that here's what it is you don't hear it here is what the what the remedy or result or fine is going to be i don't like extensions of time reasonable periods of time because i find that they get abused sorry center was was chosen and then we went ahead and see if we could negotiate a license agreement with them but i think that for lack of better words that concern if you will is certainly overridden by the concern of potentially losing the sale and in to be quite honest having a fair amount of faith in not only the town and ability to negotiate a license but in catamounts center outdoor center the folks there that themselves and then the other relatively small i think we actually can push back a little bit harder than we have but but but isn't there a scenario where some some sort of a developer could purchase it and and and and they  vide it but they're not that i don't think there's any intention of the family to consider that at this point in time i think that's probably true but jim and lucy you know god bless some aren't going to be here forever you know i mean that maybe in the short term that's true the long term maybe not i don't know i don't know what else to add and then the part about the fees again i'm biased  but there isn't the marketplace going to play a role in this also it will so i know i know i agree with that but i'm just not standing with the you know what the improvements would be and you know i when we were talking about this and you know i was trying to think of uses for all ten members and would somebody want to pavilion there or does all this catamount earth family center you know management preclude us from doing any t's kind of the question of who who is in control is it the town or is it kind of mouth or door center it's like bird would be the i mean ultimately the management plan is what is guiding you know the ten year plan for the property and that is completely up to the select board to approve or change and the license is just one part of that i mean the police and asked if the follow the management plan the manager plan  follow the easement but ultimately it's the slick board that is in control of the property and from what and just kind of speak to your concern about you know when we first presented this project what i heard from the slick w from the planning commission from the conservation commission was the town doesn't have the capacity or desire to manage this property and we are fairly happy with the amount of opportunities that canada or family center has brought to our residents and to all of chinon county in terms of little kids camps and races and getting people outdoors and we like we we want to explore how we can partner together and that was kind of how this project first started was the intent of the town to partner with canada our family center and develop this exact agreement i don't know if there was that much of a link but i think that was discussed for sure i think maybe some people were wondering you know how it was going to be managed didn't want to see a plan or proposals on what would be managed it seems like we have a very focused single thread forced by the owners radio so i mean we have to you know i think ted enjoyed you know and jeff brought up some good points i think maybe we have to noodle on it i don't want to i don't want to because it's kind of it was kind of a surprise to me i don't want to make it a knee jerk reaction the color of it and what our voting on it tonight so i think we have to explained it earlier you know this is the process stamfordham yeah so you have this controls the you know what you do with the center and this is run by the select board this is in this piece of the agreement is what defines how it's being maintained and so i don't know just something that would make it clear on how we're structuring this and i mean i i hear your concerns about this being here tonight as far as things to work on and as far as coming up with some better way of visually maybe describing how this is that kind of what you're going to have to rethink how i was just thinking of i'm going to go through i  only went through the letter i didn't go through the full license agreement so i need to look at that further i'm used to looking at contracts but i'm not as fast as is an attorney of course so we may be able to come up request and what the town did then was approved a five year agreement that would provide a granted funds to the masonic center that they would then use up taxes that was in two thousand and thirteen was a five year agreement twenty eight teens that although it met the statute for misspellings i'm sure for the use of the of the center did not meet the state tax exempt status that would exempt from the education grant list so if the property was exempt but voted by the people  then i'm not exactly sure of the mechanism for the education fund i went to the assessor for that piece but he said it when they went meet those thresholds that this state is there when this was adopted five years ago the true the town is responsible for collecting those school taxes and if even if we don't collect one hundred percent of it we have to give one hundred percent to the state right so that nagging recollection of a supreme court decision that basically said that this that there's there's not a charitable exemption allowed in this circumstance and i'm wondering if we could delay  this that is why we went the grant route because if it's not it's a separate entity here in the i mean it's it's not tied directly to taxes there's a relationship but it's not  it but i was admitted i was referring to the supreme court decision that was the there was i and again no no offense to the to the organization but my recollection was that there was a there was a decision where the lodge was not considered to be a charity or fraternal organization under the statute that applies here because of the way that the definition was applied  so can i ask procedurally do we actually give the organization money or do we just collect their tax last but but the part i get confused and i'm sorry about this is i see the eight hundred which is into post agreement but i'm on the i think it's the second to last paragraph in the town managers report were mentions an amount of ten thousand six hundred twenty four dollars and what i want to make sure i understand is is the town in addition to the eighteen hundred that's part of this agreement going to be liable for that amount ten thousand six hundred twenty four dollars a year to pay to that state not just be granting the municipal tax portion ok tax exemption rate i mean that's essentially at the end of the day what your doing right i mean you've mechanically done it differently to go around a vote but what are what are our rules for doing that and how do we decide what organizations get those things and which do you know so can you help us understand with those rules or is it just that somebody comes in like john from a good organization and says hey i want you decided that the organization isn't suitable for this particular law so is there if i could understand your question i know there are tax other tax agree there are tax exempt entities in willesden some of those are specifically addressed by state statutes that they automatically are tax exempt those that are not specifically taxes my state statute how did they get there for lack of better words tack to exempt status from the town would anybody know and the answer may be there are not  question but there are other organizations that the town has given grants to in the past so this is not the only one that gives a grant to you know it would be on a case by case basis but that doesn't doesn't answer the broader question about what's the how do we decide right rather than you know how do we make that decision is or are there any rules were there driving us or guiding us or i guess the answer to that is yes the state will statutes or it is what guides us because if the state statutes say it's not exempt then that puts the town at risk for declaring an exemption because then it's to have to pay the school side of those taxes and in those cases we've tried to avoid that we don't want to be in the position of having to pay the state education taxes for an entity are generally not a lot of those types of situations but there have been some others and i have to spend long time researching so i just don't recall what they were like i can give you an example of another lodge  in jericho vermont that went through a similar process through the town vote process the town select board there actually decided that they would put up their tax exemption for bow with the understanding that the school tax would increase for the general population to offset the entire tax abatement for for that property and that was put up for the four vote i was actually passed but the difference was it involved a lot less money it was in the new order of twenty five hundred dollars for the entire bill so we're talking closer to fourteen thousand which was probably not as an easy for you to live with so the process does work but i don't know if that has to do with jericho rules or state rules but it's that you'd right now  specifically on which issue well if  pausing because there are two distinct issues and i'm not sure one one is does the little lodges at the proper term well this case were actually a licensed business entity so we're called green mountain masonic center because there are several lodges that meet in that building so it's and the case i mentioned to you in jericho was a much smaller facility and a single line which is why there is a difference in the dollar amounts we're talking we rent space from them for senior some overseer programs i guess what i'm wondering is if if the if the entity does not qualify as a  charity or fraternal organization relative to the tax exemption statute are we legally allowed to give them a grant to pay their taxes hundred that's that's the legal question but the as as a policy question sir i'm wondering if you can beef up with what what the what the entity does sure so well that you know we're nonprofit organization we own the the building is behind where c v s is and primarily the building main purpose of building is to to promote different masonic activities related to masonic lodges and then bodies and so there are two masonic lodges that meet there as well as eastern star and york right and scottish rite and they they all have similar teachings the the bane premis of the organization is to improve of person's character working with the community is part of the tenets of that organization so there are those bodies as well but since we do have a facility that is not used twenty four hours a day we actually allow the cub scouts to meet in a facility in seniors meeting in our facility we know the woolston food shelf is contracted out to use a facility for a food demonstration at some point later in the year and any other organization that  has nonprofit motives we would also consider in most cases we just ask for a contribution and we don't call it a rent because it's just really to offset the cleaning you know and utility expenses associated with the use of  so and we have no employees we don't run any business out of the organizations no products leave there so it's all a nonprofit entity department in addressing various issues that come up during the course of their day that really are more suitable ie addressed by people kelson background rather than law enforcement councillors will be providing service to six communities and so this agreement is intended to implement the program that's already underway at this point up the idea is that they won't actually be using it very often but they do need a place to sit with a computer and a telephone and then the idea is they'll be out in the field more than they'll be at the  and the memo that one two three four fifth paragraph down the last sentence which reads once adopted the ele o p must be signed by a select board member the town manager or mayor it is he also can pushing that we have a mayor form of government  this and they found that seem awfully low given that we fairly recently did a reprieve all in all our numbers showed phrasal is still pretty accurate in terms of market values sales assessor and listers and they recommend that the board accept this the board doesn't accept it then a hearing will be held short shortly and i don't know we don't have any arguments at this point because they've kind of agreed with our position that so this isn't this is the number we were looking at or we had some way to figure out that this is where we should land if anything it's  under state law regional planning commission cannot use miscible funds or grants the cover costs of providing services under a service agreement like this is an interest in her municipal service agreement because the original agreement precluded charging for indirect associate went over my head so i'm going to rely on your opinion that it's in the town's best interest to agree to this you have a say so we want to be in compliance with state  was money so i was on the survey joint survey committee should probably fall through the stage of it this really is a follow through on what was approved by the voters previously shared with the bork several meetings where we talked about this agreement length it may be sooner than we think because remember our fire dispatch is done by the town of sober this now gives us an option that we didn't have before so we'll have to evaluate th addison's things get up and running but i imagine it's probably going to be at least a year maybe more before things are fully operational so how many years now are we is it three years we have to take action or or basically do something or you're out right basically yeah there's there is three years i don't recall exactly it wasn't very long so because they think so too terry so obviously and shelburne voted against it is that it is correct and there was an awful lot of and hopefully we have this discussion at some point here about i think we heard all the pro side what are the cut you know what are the kinds lights why would be i was very surprised that the dispatchers themselves were picketing against it because i thought when we did it at least early on i thought we heard  that and maybe this isn't contractual yet but i thought we heard that the dispatchers would get first right of refusal and this was really something to better their careers because you're going to give them more opportunity for upward movement than they have today because they're in such small pools in each one of these stations so why would they be so up in arms because just moving from colchester to the losing and losing positions will not necessarily a sign but here's a here's why they're so first of all the the dispatching proposed at this first stage for reasons i don't fully understand because this first up doesn't commit right but it starts the guy or that usually when these bugs start rolling they'll stop but what they were arguing is they didn't have details well the operational details well that's not possible until you form an organization and the towns are in the are for position of the unions wanted to negotiate out the details we can't negotiate until you have an entity and there's there's so there's no change of status from a union perspective for these employees or does this regional dispatch change their you know their status in any way or are there negotiating or if it will change if there is a regional for their current employer and this means that they may not be able to do that and those are some of the reasons ok that's good to know i just i was i was actually just surprised i was surprised that shelburne who has a senate voted against it so it so in effect will that sun arse continue to rise as it is today does well it will continue to run whether or not all the people or agents that they currently serve stay with them is a different fifty seven percent again that's because we're in probably tied with not being able to fill positions that i know the chief is aggressively working to fill those and in fact i interviewed someone today for one of the  revenue side rooms meals we still have another couple payments to be made on that but as you saw from our last report we're probably going to be over more revenue than we had budgeted for that line item when someone mentioned how we're doing on the highway when there's not over yet well i should say for the winter season isn't over winter may be over contact this is just for general legal issues and labor relations is handled by a different legal council and we also use a different attorney for zoning related issues so this is just for git general moving along here you know jackson's first constable as a position of selected and this past election no one ran for the opening and there were no insufficient write in votes so  the position curly's and felt we do have someone who recently submitted an application to the service constable and so we have not advertise for that position somebody doesn't run for an office the board has the ability to just appoint somebody yes ok the story down this is a position that isn't critical way and there have been years where it ha felt just because no one read a lot of water so we didn't really have revise it it's that in this case someone decided they were interested and this isn't the first time this is happening either we one time it was open and someone said just because people are interested doesn't convince me that we don't have through town constable how does that work it goes it's just somebody will contact them and say here is the summons and complaint to serve on joe schmoe and they go out and do it and they thought a return of service saying under oath that they actually gave the person the papers will observe that would be the constable's job but what happens when we don't have one how does that th the call that it was already being addressed and so it's it's not a huge amount of damage but you know the important thing is that they got to right away they're drying it out and and they have to put up some floor tiles and some ceiling