tell me why it's not sufficient for both problems you wrote two letters in the numerous late night phone calls you sent gable pictures he asked for pictures of him in the pants he wore when he was in games which any young kid would be interested in and he told him if he came back in montana he would buy him a motorcycle which seems to lead to being fairly compelling evidence  the other cases that we have in here meek and ingrid which are basically the computer type cases are cases where eventually the perpetrator of the attempted person attempting to perpetrate a crime against the minor shows as another means of proving the same crime or the same thing i agree with you in the sense that that's my argument is that we've seen what other courts have done and it's not here but i  to impress upon this court today the importance of not allowing going back to this merely communication is what my basic argument is fear of these are merely communications as disgusting as they are they are communications to this young man about perspective things what i would like to do and if you look at the statute it says that he's trying that person committing this trying must be trying to engage and that has no saying that raid or entice the person to engage it as a huge difference that he is i don't think it is your honor with all due respect i believe that what i'm trying to get across to this court is that he has to be trying to persuade him to engage not to say here's a young man here's what i'd like to do you if this happened if that happened if you were here what if we were saying come back in eight years when you're of legal age and we can do whatever we want there's no time frame here he doesn't ever try to try to persuade this young man to engage in sex and as a matter of fact the trial showed evidence at trial showed that they w where the crime could be committed and that's where those other cases go that's why that the law enforcement gets them into a point where sixty you are showing up in physical presence with this child to commit that and that is not where mr gets he went at all and that is the essence of my argue that there has to be this physical meeting in order to engage in this offense and he has to be trying to set up that meeting and all he ever says about a meeting about coming to montana and that's where the the prosecution hang its hat is when you're cut if you come to montana but if you look on page fifty of the trial transcript that is letter number one all he wants the miner to do in that letter is right  the miner of course never gets the letter the letter is intercepted and law enforcement like to acknowledge letter number two there's only two letters and that's on page sixty starts on page six of the couple supplemental excerpts that were submitted by  and those letters do not try to set up a meeting and they do not constitute a substantial step toward the commission of the crime they just i think that that is a legal argument and not a fa good morning may it please the court my name is marcia heard and i'm in a usa in the district of montana i'm here on behalf of the united states i handled this case and in handling it obviously on appeal i think the court has hit the nail squarely on the head in this case this was a rather interesting trial because no one disagreed with what the facts were and this was simply an argument about the sufficiency of the evidence the united states took the position and charged this case as an attempt because the letters actually never made it to the little boy his mother intercepted them because she was concerned about why this person was writing to her son after the phone calls and so he never actually received those communications but the court is absolutely correct that there is not a case within the circuit talked about hoping that he would come up the next summer and that he loved spending time with him he enjoyed giving him a back rub and some of the things that he wanted to do to him but didn't have time the reason he didn't have time was because th child went to montana to basically kind of reenact his father's childhood in montana his father was in the military and thought he'd like to give him that same kind of opportunity to spend time with this older gentleman who was basically of like a grandfather to all of them unbeknownst to this little boy and his mother who put him on the plane the person that he was going to stay with had david gets you living with him and david gets he's a parking acted sex offender of little boy in this case the little boy stayed i believe approximately three maybe four days before child protective services was notified by a caller that there was a convicted sex offender in this residence they went out and actually removed him and sent him home david that's he had somewhere between three and four days to start grooming this young man which is exactly what it took pictures of him various assorted things to have fun with him and obviously in his own words gave him back rubs and was starting that grooming process that then continued over a very lengthy period of time after this little boy went back home to live with his mother again the second son and that he was what he did step was writing the letters and mailing them as we talked a little bit in the closing argument it wouldn't be necessarily a legal or a violation of the statute if david gets he had thought about this in his own mind had written the letters torn up and thrown him away because nobody out the little boy's address stamp them mailed them responded back to a second letter and made numerous phone calls he sent this little boy photographs asked for him to send photographs back that we have some special meaning to them from having spent this time together in the summer one case where you know the defendant didn't arrange to meet the minor or went to meet the minor or designated a place to see the minor were designated a time to see a minor as distinct from just something that happened substantial step and mere preparation is not a substantial step in this case your preparation would have banned finding out the young boy's address maybe making sure you get stamps meeting writing the letter but then never doing anything else that would have been your preparation but in this case wanted to do and asking the boy if he could do that when he came for the summer and so the united states and it's that goes way beyond mere preparation and it goes into the substantial step that's required in this case by statu