your honour's greetings from southern indiana this is a direct appeal from a conviction following in a petri trial in the united states this report for the southern district indiana this case started i believe the criminal conduct which is alleged in the indictment in two thousand and nine it summed up i think by the end of two thousand and eleven  client was brought into it through the fact that he was c e o of a company named imperial he had attended there in central indiana and they were experiencing financial difficulties they talked to each other and the ball got rolling so it's  to me mr goodridge why you know even if you even if a person i realize not you but even if a lawyer could make an argument to a jury that mr wilson was not aware about what the al scheme was all about and and all of that that there was on the other side actually a rather large amount of evidence from which a rational jury could infer that it was perfectly aware of it and that's what this t and i was reviewing this record i had many of the same concerns that you had exactly what you just said i've met with my client several times after his incarceration to the very very harsh sentence but it was one hundred when he heard earlier today that her two year sentence was unreasonably harsh and fraud case but ok i didn't agree with the opponent  knows there's no glycerin he no i mean there's just a lot of evidence even if you don't have him standing on that you know in the middle of the indiana university campus shouting you know i'm defrauding the government honor in before coming into the court room i met with the united states attorney and i met him for the first time and i believe that was the top of our conversation the fact of the matter is this th form the requisite mens rea had to commit a securities of fant as compared to mail fraud wire fraud any other type of criminal offense was the appropriate move here but i've been doing this a little while and i'm very very aware of judge easter and i will never cross that line you don't raise twenty two fifty five issues on direct appeal it is strong it's a good advice and so i'll take that as a little reservation and you haven't done could you could did you perhaps address mr goodrich that the government has a passage in their brief from page fifty two targets in title wilson's false statements to government agen yes could you there was no reply every from this case when i was wondering what your response to that portion of brief would be my fire response to the portion of that brief is  my client with to those meetings without representation initially at the time that he went to those meetings he was not or the government was not possessed of this by cell comparison that was not created by my client but was instead created by one of the do see brothers who i think evidence is conclusive is a pretty effective well educated  and in that comparison what the comparison was i believe is a comparison to buying what was referred to as off spec  feedstock for the creation of the biofuel as to purchasing the feedstock and i think the difference was they lost twenty one far as i can tell and he's not even telling the investors about the off spec clearing that he's offering in trial so well that goes to the knowledge that that is correct but in specific reference to the interview that the court had asked me to to talk about the charge was false statements to the government agent my client did material materially false statement his statements which were made of fact if you break down the diction of the exact sentence were true or his responses why don't we leave it there for the moment since you're in your rebuttal time and you'll see you can respond to whatever the government has to say may please the court jake schmidt on behalf united states of america with the court's permission i'd like to address some of the points that were just covered in counsel's argument first of all as to the timeframe of the scene there are basically two separate criminal agents but there was a separate criminal indictment to covered up the scheme which included false statements under the clean air act and violations of other related australia regarding the government incentives for the biofuels the lies that mr wilson told  and he told lies about what was happening at the biofuels plant that's what he was convicted of not the false statements to the i r s or the or any of that to as judge and to point out the sentencing it was well below the guidelines just in case that if she was of any interest now as to the false statements it it actually is somewhat remarkable that those false statements came out the way they did without the agents having that make versus buy spread sheet because he basically offered those statements which were then shown to be knowingly false by a document that he had in his possession video ended up turning over to the  c this is the maid curse aspiring scrooge yeah correct and it's actually significant that we didn't even come up with that name that is the name of the spreadsheet right do we want to make this stuff or do we want to buy it from somebody else and there's nothing wrong with making or buying song shuffling around the tax incentives the same time so i mean as long as you're telling investors that you're doing that yeah right that you're just a middleman correct so to the to the whether there's evidence that he read it there actually is evidence that he read it the testimony at trial was from craig doocy who was the president of the bow fuels he was a coda been in this case until he pled guilty cooperate with the government testified against mr wilson and what he said is he said in the spread sheet then got together they discussed it they went through each of the various processes laid out in that spreadsheet and mr wilson said i want to do more of the profitable by strategy do that because we make money and if we turn the plant on we lose money and i don't want to do that today at the end of this they did try turning the plant on and it turned out to be difficult to get back up and running correct so about a year after mr wilson came on the scene he went out to new jersey to stock week we can't have a situation where it's one hundred percent alchemy it's too risky so you've got to buy chemicals that are used in bodies of production you got to stop and the quote that was from this addison he said i don't care if you pour it down the drain but it's got to show up on the books right so at that point a year into it mr wilson goes out there and he says look the plants not running and if you want to start again it's going to take some time we'll try to do it right and there is evidence that they tried to do it throughout the summer and it was really really difficult to get that plant to side or anywhere for that matter in texas and new jersey here well if if this plant would have produced the volume that it claimed that it produced it would have been four percent of the bodies of production in the united states during the time period now you can go to stations pilot other places and you'll see things that are they called like the ten or be twenty right so that's eighty percent petroleum diesel twenty percent of the so so you can take this stuff put it into a diesel engine and it will run at certain  percentages so there is a market for it the problem that you bio had is they couldn't properly make it unless they cheated on the incentives now that's what i was just wondering whether that's generically a problem or this is just one of those technologies that hasn't quite taken off yet or whether they just happen to be really bad at it i think it's generally a problem but when you add in when you add in the incentives it makes it profitable when you add in incentives without actually any cost of a cover story mr wilson knew it was a cover story they told and the reason they had to tell that cover story was that the plant had a fifty million gallon capacity and they were selling twenty five to thirty million gallons a year so they had to have an excuse  did they get from fifteen to thirty right and so they came up with this off spec story but the trial testimony is everybody on the inside knew that that was a lie who told the investors about the off spec what's interesting they told one investor a hedge fund that came out and did do diligence hired a renewable energy expert came up with plan a summer two thousand and eleven and they told him about that just by the volume that person walked away from the deal and said that sounds a legal the next group of investors the pipe investors later in the fall of two thousand and eleven they went back to the first story and they didn't mention opsec at all do you see filings reflect the office work story there's one reference to it at the very end in november two thousand and eleven and all it says is we have the presented is the argument presented by trial counsel as to why the jury's verdict should be vacated it was reliable and that does involve preparation for twenty two fifty five with regard to judge hamilton's issue there's evidence not in the record which was not placed into the record regarding the b sell sheet and how it ended up in my client's possession alternately it was i believe at some point it will come to light that it was  given to him back by the f c c as corporate records and then he turned it over so it was part of an investigation that he collected the records from and then he turned it over to the government menno there was testimony at trial for mr do see that they talked about graeme and there was but if you if you're a lot put in the other evidence then it was that person probably cross examined maybe i got to ask facility because what you're trying to do is you're trying to buy b one you're trying to buy b ninety nine fuel which is ethanol that's been splashed with diesel and you're trying to turn that into be one hundred well turning it into be one hundred there's no scientific process for that it is impossible you cannot do that through transistor for occasion you can't take out the one percent of the oil you put in it can't do it but they want to say they can do it so what they do is they go to new jersey have it shipped in and not even that i think the provider was over i'm never gonna use it they were just going from one well that's another that well we're getting there a different product fill another truck send it to the customer and that is own the books the papers write the ghost load is where you don't use that intermediary and what you're doing is you're