that at least for that time period unless they did some paid a higher shipping costs that the limit of liability for that period of time was five hundred dollars per item is extracted well there is no evidence  any knowledge on the part of barack the opportunity it's what's called the spare opportunity doctoring where the ship or a carrier is supposed to give the shipper an opportunity to declare the value for the cargo and exchange for a higher a did apply they had a five hundred dollars limit of liability if in fact that is clear from the face of the way bill is if not that is correct ok so what is it your contention that they should have been given more specific notice that that congress it was extended beyond the point where it was offloaded from the ship correct because the damage in this particular case your honor occurred at the time when the cargo to what weight should we give to the notion that the shipper knew that it had only five hundred dollars limit of liability or had a five hundred dollars limit of liability tackle to tackle and destroyed interval that we're talking about what is there to suggest that they would have opted for a higher coverage for that short period of time well again back to your initial question there was no evidence that the us shipper would of if given the opportunity for higher right the carrier has the burden to show that the shipper had that opportunity and declined to follow it through to take advantage tackle then we should be back at the district court to determine what notice and what opportunity was given to the shipper to the care of the higher about you that is not in the record your honor because the matter was decided on summary judgment on the issue of whether cox applied the young tackle that is at the time with this shipment was damaged and if you have any other questions it's not answers your question i will like to continue with judge callahan well we have it we have a different defendant your honor we have the the ocean carrier and we have the terminal so the terminals going to benefit from probation that cease to exist and these two apply  we think that that's inconsistent because the message then that will be sent as well here terminal go ahead and make to handle the cargo it doesn't matter what you do with it because you're still going to be entitled to limit your liability even though you don't have a contract with the ship or at least between merced and the shipper there was a contract in place and that is reflected in the way bill not the us the c c l the combined transfer bill of late because that is that document was never issued the only ship undocumented was the way bill so the terminal is taken advantage of a situation where it does not have a contract and yet it gets to benefit from prevention that has these to apply that's where this case it is not a matter of whether the of lading required the carriage to be from rotterdam to the container yard so actually delivery had already occurred by march and it was already in the hands of the terminal so that's where we argue cox that  right it does and it may deprivation and perfect and false and forcible provided their ship the ship it is given notice provided that because remember this is an exceptional circumstance this is an exception to the rule the rule is cox applies from tackle to tackle the exception is cox the main apply beyond tackles if you're going to enforce an exception you must give notice to the shipper that it did not happen here that are never agreed to then co they are they're not going to create any kind of because this is within the circuit because you may want to save the balance of your time you have a little over four minutes because those cases i'm sorry i have four minutes that argument i was having a little trouble understanding the logic of it you're saying well this is what a belt and suspenders provision then because regardless of what the way bill says there's an automatic coverage of the terminal entity under the other and under the hardware the harder act would apply both to the to the carrier and to determine and then going on to the question of notice the cases upon which rely  all depend for all specified that notice is only required when the terms of the bill of lading that are being incorporated by reference vary from the actual statute here they don't vary from the actual statute they into and all they get is all of the record at least designed to stand in this case the stripper got was a short form way bill it says and by the way if you want to sue your long the fine print on a document you can come down to our  convention limitations are imposed on limits that they can get away with that sort of very quiet incorporation by reference and you're suggesting that as long as it doesn't conflict then the th about where coggs applies and then at the end it gives a notice of the five hundred dollars limitation as a copy of the long form can be inspected or the supplied on request that any officer which gets us back your honor to the fact that this at this five hundred dollars limitation is in force of one of the harder so even if cogs is not properly incorporated which i strongly believe that it is still available for  argument against that is the say well it's really de facto exculpation of liability based on the fact that it's such a disk discrepancy between the six hundred thousand dollars and an alleged damages which there's no evidence before the court regarding that six hundred thousand dollar well actually because harder acts can be limited to the actual term terminal or the port area so if this went on to for instance nebraska then we'd want kaja to cover the entire ship if you're saying i believe i don't have any from door to door so all the way across the country in the military ask you you can still have cards of being  talking about is the difference between liability when it comes off the ship tackle the tackle or place they are the point at which it's delivered to some other to some other carrier which i trust is with involved here and that other carrier would take it somewhere we don't know where but that's  extent in this case for instance the cargo would come to a rest at the terminal and then the ultimate constantini in this case started would come and pick it up they'd hire their own trucker and pick it up from the terminal that's when delivery would occur is when there's a handoff between one carrier and the next