ok sure these are the regulations that discussed a couple weeks ago the players have been working on dealing with open space impedes also some private drive standards  and energy certification and that's that's the majority of it there was discussion about when you had it internally live signs this version right here has this overrun is estimates which includes could construction contingency also an estimate of what it's going to cost for construction inspection so inspection that we've got a look at that in that time the number was pretty high i think i will because it's a federally funded project you need to hire someone to do daily inspections check quantities and so on and so forth representing the school and why they feel the site is important and because i would argue it's not going to be seen by the majority of the population of jericho and of uncle of mine it's a step backwards i think if you say to men mother or whatever to your motion or you may call that you would bring it up at another hearing i would be definitely finished you can read the minutes of dr will they made some language regarding the schools and i understand that you don't want to take it up to my computer to have another here are you going to do a deal here if you go ahead with that plan i'm for it but they also did not get a chance for information the slack board to address the situation and the commercial district can have those sites and they did want to write some but due to the other nothing on the commercial district that is correct tell me about the school but because of warranted another meeting you don't want to address studied farm say and even to address the school or even if they have the school and the commercial district with the commission please drives up some more rigorous line rules that are more easily enforceable at which they're in the process of doing in the process then finishing when they do we consider completely open minded we haven't decided for all time that these lights show that there should be no lights we just said let's call a moratorium because it's a mess right now and please planning commission give us something  appealing we've got a problem we've got a messy situation we made a decision before that let's call take some time and about safety and crafts we should have included liability and i was going to i was expecting an answer it doesn't matter that much because i don't remember the question a year or so ago i think we wondered about should there be a state police crack can call or should require private security people could provide that we don't have a checklist and we say yes you can have her you have to do these things ok all right so that's a bit of a formality i mean that they're not really because the difference just between the two wou those people line up on the road any way they park bumper to bumper all along silly hill let me check of the fire i wonder freedom from would be get back to freedom definitely have an idea about where to where to park up to say oh there will be estimates but we would because we have we have put a sort of a premise when they when they at when they proposed to put the language of the land into trust in effect and to contribute it for that purpose we supported them doing that so we knew at the time it was conceivable that there would be some costs associated with creating a trail system  another how many trails do we need i think i think they're very well use i don't know if anybody needs them but i think that you know it's possible that having access to the news would be a monday when they meet because they're going to vote on it and in october but and they're doing this for years and you see and they came up with a consensus on all this but they didn't actually give everybody a consensus on the principles and one of the recommendations is that for road permits that they're going to require development of many different bands based on the local conditions so i mean this is a good thing to  do and any stormwater and they're trying to capture all the roads both probably and private for storm water content so i think this is a good thing to do and certainly stormwater should be part of what we're going to look out a the cost of a person you know we develop a relationship with a guest another town and you get to call him up and asking questions and so forth without and my instinct is to try and find a person who is our person and when he needs assistance because his expertise is not wide enough that that he talks to us and we get  i would like to see a little language that says these of the functions that need that the town needs before and we will look into an engineer to either do them or to oversee we do this with the with the with the lawyer e mail i don't know if you received the email i forwarded by also printed out for a long way from the mains and the record from an individual in the us asking that you hold a little bit on very specific cases it's not a true it's a dead end and the only people that use are the people on the road or people who have the expressed a liberal permission which can be removed in any down time of the raising way and and planes and nashville and what the one that runs up from nashville to those are all different process for road so there are lots of other people have an interest in here so road all right up by my place and you know the traffic goes by too fast and there's hundreds and hundreds of cars every day and i actually just if i don't know me why there's a fallacy in the thing taught when todd had that thing up there to measure the speed and i thought i realized why some of the speeds were so low were his driveway for two of them within one hundred yards the cars are going to slow already and they're coming to a stop and if that machine takes an average you know one he's concerned only that the that the announcement meet the requirements of the statute and we talk at length about what he believes the announcement as the bare deal doesn't meet all the requirements of th stat so we have to grab something a little more you know a little fuller and i undertook to do that and just to have a go sent it to him give us his opinion and then we discuss you know what we want but this is really only about the announcement that the that the town will vote on that where we disclose everything we have to disclose in a fashion that meets the what it was now did not meet the statutory well the other thing is based on the discussion you did not seem like the we do not have my meaning i do believe that you know i mean that's w so i don't off right but on the other hand you resent it was not clear at that point and say that he wasn't here because it wasn't in her turn or whether we could even develop it on no that's that we that's why i think it should that the whole thing his position came back to zero i have no problem with the substance of what you're doing or what you say but you have to you have to disclose it has to be clear to the voters what you're doing and why what the purpose is and what the costs are and so forth so that's fine i mean you know we've created this hate community development corporation here within five days of the meeting five days of the public information meeting which we're going to do so at least at least one probably more but i was thinking you know because you know we'll have to see what you come up with that based on the discussion i had with reagan stuff i thought going with an advisory question because you know we can do you state that you can he nobody can change this one is that there's only you only can vote twice within a twelve month period on these kind of bonding issues and say you get turned down then you know if we didn't advisory to take the pulse of the community then you might have a lot more are going to have to write a more extensive description of what we're planning to do and why and what will be left open for public input because of the not making the decision exactly what to do with this now you know we're going to have  what the costs of purchase interest rates and so forth could be emphasized could be and they won't be because we're going to sell stuff and we're going to develop and we're going to get revenue at in the absolute worst case thirty years from now theoretically we could go a certain sum of money and that has to be clear yes and i mean member i would try to do a deal ahead  about putting on the ballot for november fourth right so we're talking about rewriting the ballot wording you called it you have been calling it the it's the motion you know it's what you vote on the more explicit and meets the requirements of the statue and and the vote that comes out of that that will be legitimate up or down but we'll gentlemen listen kathryn's point was that we have already published oh you're saying so that we can go back and forth and come to the next meeting and have a definitive yeah i mean i'm going to write something on a draft day and you're going to see it he's going to see it he may say have some recommendations you may have some recommendations and we're going to public informational meeting but i know that when we bonded for the town hall there were several but that's because that was actually and they were you were actually issuing a bond when you borrow for for a period of more than five years to acquire a capital asset you have to file file some of the binding stuff but not all so there are some different things well i thought the approach was good though there were  you can't but i'd say sure if you wanted to meet earlier before october second task we do the official warning you have you can meetings you could use up to the twenty fifth of this month i don't think it's enough time to get there september yes yeah and then and then the second meeting of the select board in october we would certainly be talking about it and then the following you know weeks before the election we have the information meeting so that there's two times for them to and so whenever they had no problem with the deal with self or regular i mean it was solely with the language of the thing that people were voting right which is it came up because i said in my draft right secret it's been on the web but everything's so that's not a secret the only question is the exact language of the thing that people vote on that's on the ballot on november fourth that's the only discussion but lower we did not take the exact middle he pushed it up poser's of the upper one because in return there's huge if he gave us an exceptionally favorable financing the principals payable upon any unpaid principal at the is payable at the point of maturity thirty years in the meantime we are free to pay down as much as we want whenever we want we can pay principal or not as we please and that's as you can imagine so if you're a professional reckon that's a very attractive and it's a tract of interest rate three point five four percent which and that was chosen as halfway between what we would go out for come from because we were not prepared to you know the encumber the tax base with with a geo bond or anything like that so so it's a commercial thirty year bond thirty year mortgage at the time that we made the deal which was april i think at the top and the bottom because they are required if we actually paid them the one point two four care they're required by the legal agreement signed when they acquired the property to put all of that money into a trust and effectively put it in t bills and they can only use they can't use the principal and only use them so they'd be getting at that time it was like point nine percent or something so we took half way between what we would have to pay if we went to the market for a mortgage and what they would get if we paid in cash and we took halfway between that we were both benefiting we're getting a cheap mortgage and they're getting more money they're getting more return for their money and we have the the discretion to pay principal as and when we please and that means when the intention is to develop to use this property and generate some income some will be left completely open as you know over the space but there are other ideas that have been generated by the population on what to do with it and we we did start to have a discussion with a developer who had come to the the fire departments that i'm interested in buying and partly that for two reasons we started having this discussion one find out what the what the what the opportunities really were from a professional and a guy who doesn't you know and number two see if there was a way of pre negotiated a deal in which a developer a three way deal you j f t us and of which the developer paid a large performance bond upfront so we never pay the interest it's going straight from other that would radically reduce our risk the risk isn't very great anyway frankly we are going to get most of this money back and don't have any doubt about that and since we don't have to pay principal we don't have to worry that much about the timing the but the general feeling of the of the select board was there began to be whispers in that about us being off in a corner with the with the developer and doing a deal sort of in a back room and we did not want any of that kind of flavor so we just said sorry thanks very much it's been productive we learned a lot we might be back to you after we have if we succeed in buying the property but we're not and then we will do it in an open way with an r and b and so forth we're not going any further and they said we understand so we did learn quite a bit we did learn a lot about what the real income generating possibilities of this property are and if if we succeed in doing this first we'll be going to the public before we should read process and what people want to do with it we think we already know we had three big public meetings before and which you know there were quite a lot of people i would say coming to all three meetings that were probably three hundred people i was very you know emotional at the time a lot of people expressed opinions about what should be done with it or what they thought could be done with it in fact it boiled down to about five they were all over the lot there were no crazies it was you boil down to a relatively small number of realistic possibility those are the ones we did discuss with the developer so we do have now a pretty good idea of how realistic they are and what the numbers are likely to be if i may hand there was almost universal view that that the vista you know remained the same all that be open at something like fifty or sixty acres to do that the house number three there are fifteen acres up close to the to the village which is done quarter acre village housing an widespread support for so the so that's one thing we didn't know much about what that was actually worth in the discussions was the developer have given us a much better feel for what that's actually work that's actually likely to generate system on that property is an excellent batch of soil that is absolutely superb for that and the jericho center village the septic systems are in terrible shape it's a real problem so then we voted on something they voted on something else so we had to go back and run through the rigmarole again we've really only had an absolutely clear identical thing that both of us are voted on a week or so  when the rivers property first was discussed it was very emotional there's a lot of people who felt that ellis rivers and her husband really wanted to remain open but she gave it to the fire department for their benefit so this was a way of trying to appease both factions and as jim said not have the town tear its part because people went over and over and over they wanted to preserve that open space that open view and realistically you're right we can't afford that and they had a fair point there gentlemen position nobody else is about to contribute one hundred fifteen acres just because they and they have the land trust actually thought about it but they realized that they couldn't afford one one million plus they you know their fund raising there's enough that they fundraise for it they just couldn't do it there were a bunch of things that went into it that we were not and we didn't think that we were comfortable and we were not going not you know that's a week that's a week read which people are very unhappy about because they would have input and you are going to have to put some money on things if you were if you want the town to take a role in this and the community wants a real say you don't get to do that for free that's the way the world is and so and if we're not going to issue a bond and impair the tax then how do we make a deal that is sufficiently good for both sides nobody gets everything it wants by any means but is sufficiently good so it beats going to war over and beats the alternative is and it took us a year since been just about a year since this  thing flared up the start of this the fire department is a very significant and important historic institution and down it's you know it has a large membership and a lot of supporters so it's a point of view matters a lot of the people who were on the other side are also a large number of people whose views matter this was you know compromise is what it's about negotiating with the fire department so i just want to clarify that because when you talk for instance about you know the of the three hundred people which i don't think there were three hundred people involved to of the three hundred people five thought they wanted to keep it are are do does the town want to get into this type of deal does the town that's a big question you know that the original goal as i saw it was to keep this from being bought by out of towners and developed you know for the most profit possible and i totally support you know and get that as a goal but where we've gone to is really the town you know buying a property that has development potential and then having to you know work can in hand with a developer and you know we do that in conjunction with our community development corporation out there that we developed but i mean that we need but it's a a it's does it have you know do people want the town to be in the real estate development business and the other question is you know we talk about what's fair for the fire department and what's fair for the town and you know and all that the people are going to have thousands of you know i mean we do we do have a really well funded fire department in my opinion and we've never said no and you know they don't date they have everything that they need and some people think that the budget should be scrutinized more so how does this you know deal a fact you know that scrutiny or not you know what what is that what are we what are we  giving what are we giving to the fire department and and that's what i think people are going to have to ask it's not just is this a good land you know deal is this a good i feel like it's it's a bigger question like what what role does this what role should the town apply agreement and i say emphasize pencil because he decided actually voted it was a two negotiating committees when they go shooting committees pencil and understanding one piece and that undergrad standing was it'll there's a long process to approve this by the whole fire department membership and by the whole towns it's going to take and it has taken six months during that period what if somebody comes to the town to the fire department and makes an offer that the fire department thinks is or could be better than what we did and we said well if that happens bring it to us and because we've made an understanding to you have to show us that it's better for us to so that the green is better for it but they said ok that's fair otherwise we don't have agreement and otherwise is just shopping i think a deal can a at developer did come to the fire department with not really an offer about a kind of a vague number that was conceivably better than what we were off and we said ok we'll honor the understanding we'll talk to them and we talk to them together i mean a truce and we discussed at length what it was they were offering well as you know your business men are supposed to be you know goldbach's move around and when they come and say i will give you one point five million well they don't really mean that they mean  this and that and if something else and if something else and maybe under the right circumstances it might come up to one point five billion but it might not there's a whole complex post we sat and talked with them a to see whether this was a deal that would be a proposal that would be better for both the town and then the town the go shooting was particularly interested in seeing if there was an arrangement whereby we're not at risk at all it's a three part deal and not of our money passes strangers and then all that is and we were well down the road toward that we did not reach that in that place but we were moving in that whispers in the community of fears and concerns that this was beginning to develop as a as a backroom deal outside the public eye and we didn't want any part of that you know want any whisper of that into that so we said to the developer sorry we've got to stop we gave something up for that because we gave up the opportunity with an actual concrete developer of coming to an actual concrete arrangement in which he would buy the property give us part of it pay for the rest and develop it i want in a way which which the community was we hadn't actually got there it was only a possibility of such a deal the downside was a fear that we would be viewed as doing something doing you know backroom deals outside the pub so we said look sorry guys we can stop because the political risk is too great for us we don't want to go there and they were very understanding said yeah we understand that you said if we actually acquire the property we will probably  back to you and possibly some others and continue the same kind of discussion and see if we can't work out an arrangement in which we get our money back or a very large amount of our money back it's not absolutely off i think we actually i mean though those negotiations were going well enough so i'm pretty confident that if we do acquire this property we will be able to get all for the vast majority one point two four back in in that's why it's structured as a thirty year no interest only no spread smoke because that gives the economy time to shift and the the interest rate would be about forty three thousand dollars a year spread out of town which is less than  never paid a penny on the principle until we had to i mean then surely the first thing we're going to do is sell the house that's for sure yeah that's something approaching two hundred thousand dollars every time we put pay some of the principal the interest  to know how we would structure that these are just ideas that people threw out that they might like to see but we're not committed i mean there's a town certainly isn't committed to that because you're right i mean community sceptics belong to the community not th municipality so that the howard the structure we don't know the property the property which is particular the portion of the property which is particularly attractive as as the location of the community septic  and more people come out for election than most anything else has initially people were thinking oh yeah we could do it for the primary well that wasn't what happened nobody comes out there perhaps anyway and we won the next i'm number of people coming out don't think you should get into the discussion of community center because that's not really part of the package if you know that's a these are things that we might do with this property if that's what the community wants but even we would you know we get the e mail from mr kamber and he had a i didn't read that i'm sorry about that he had the article and i think you know i know where the tears are in my research field which is a good commercial district or stuff based on this email i will forward it to you the research article there was a lot of concerns about how brighten it should be at night particularly when you have you know like in our case we were much darker so the transition time if you get something bright in your eyeballs that you're distracted by it takes longer to to get back and they were suggesting you know the so i want to know how the planning commission came up with five hundred  is their standard for what they're proposing because based on what the this article and of the research they had done suggests that you might not even want it to be two hundred fifty i have no idea so how do we find out i mean  i would you know can we get a consultant or is there somebody in town we could ask in front porch for him or is there an electrical engineer who knows the brightness of l e d s and whether five hundred gets too bright i guess we don't know and i think we should know if we're going to even consider this wolf you know i think it's actual question do you want them at all and if so then we can figure that out but i think you get into the nitty gritty unless you decide to really i mean because they're going to talk about commercial science too and th you want to know you know i want somebody who's a consultant that will tell them that five hundred notes may be too strong i think maybe ten times the recommendation yeah that's right yeah without that you know your your transition time is already shifted because it is breyer are so dark you know i think five you know you really want to make sure you're not too bright so find out why they picked and who is the expert that i have a full copy of the plan if anybody wants to make cover comments on it it's either on their website and they send them just to have a q sheet of why they were doing it to each town but they're going to be going around to the different towns telling us like we're just talking about these things but really the idea is just because particularly on burlington when you skinnier is becoming much more diverse of the need to be much more