a representative jury or maybe half a lot of people don't have sufficient funds up front to come up with a five thousand dollars changer which might be and i guess i'm just talking about societal norms while the societal norms are built by any and the end notes are i don't want to public defender i want to real lawyer and yet some places public defenders are great lawyers with people on the jury the public defender of the county is sometimes very well known and it's known as a public defender but it doesn't come out in four days but again some percentage of your jurors and that's the reason why i write this because without that frankly we're left with the factual basis on which the judge decided so based on his knowledge the third fourth and fifth districts cases contrary to all the position taken by the first and second just this juncture since summers that there has not decided th so so just to clarify here under the facts we have here is your position first and second is free i would say that the hearing held was not enough because there was no inquiry into the and it was actually a legitimate answer to a question but then it came out yes side by six this should at least be explored yes should be for them in effect to the claims of the trial court's attention the chocolate's attention he said he didn't think was a fair trial yet he had lost respect for the slightly they haven't sat down and talked there was no specific of the record i believe it was five or six pages of the defendant just talking continuously and within that there was this claim previously referenced trial counsel assistance and after this the but it should be right for a man of her hearing as your honour's defense counsel previously discussed the main issue is whether some sort of hearing her friends counsel side of various different cases so there has to be some sort of worry that's present and in this case defendants are going there wasn't but the record does show in the trial court addressed the defendant that he said considering your financial circumstances that's showing that the trial court probably did rely on something with the record you know the defendant is financially has financial issues and so i think this shows w i believe that in court it was i don't know too fresh from the facts but i believe that the fact that the court made the statement that regarding the defendant's financial circumstances but that when the public defender makes the state regarding my client has suggested to me that he's unhappy and in the trial court gives the opportunity for the defendant to state something and in this case i think maybe even you would it grieve if the defendant rambles i mean he's really why does the trial court have to ask him additional question or ask the public defender to say more if based upon what defendant is same it doesn't rise to the level being ineffective at all when weighed against the trial court's observation of the trial and how defense counsel proceeded proceed in this way you can acquire you can evaluate you couldn't decide what you want to do the be left to defend it talk quite a bit and the defendant stated tell is not able to speak and the record shows says there was a meeting in the office of the