the subcommittee will come to order pursuant to notice i now call up h r two one three four the western hemisphere drug policy commission act of two thousand and nine without objection the amendment in the nature of a substitute before the members will be considered is base for purposes of amendment will be considered as read and will be open for amendment any point i recognize myself for five minutes to explain the amendment in the nature of a substitute billions of u s taxpayer dollars have been spent over the years to fight the drug trade in latin america and the caribbean in spite of our efforts drug use in the united states has increased according to the brookings institution since the peak of the heroin and cocaine epidemics  hundred eighty s consumption rates for these narcotics every main more or less stable at approximately one million heroin users and three point three million cocaine users the same time methamphetamine has  spread resulting in a combined prevalence rate of more than six million users clearly the time has come to reexamine our counter narcotics efforts here at home and throughout the americas here are two one three four does just that by creating an independent commission to evaluate u s policies and programs aimed at reducing illicit drug supply in the americas and the demand for these drugs here at home this bipartisan bill will assess all aspects of the  trade including prevention and treatment programs in the united states the western hemisphere drug policy commission will be charged with conducting a comprehensive review of us a list of drug supply and demand reduction policies the commission will be required to submit recommendations on future u s drug policy to congress secretary of state the director of the white house office of national drug control policy and secretary of health and human services to tackle our nation's horrific drug problem once and for all we must have a better sense of what works and what does not work our partners in the americas who have worked closely with us in fighting the drug war for years and the citizens of our great country who deal every day with illegal drugs on the street deserve no less i urge out all of my colleagues to support this legislation and i now turn to the ranking member mr mack to express his views on this legislation thank you mr chairman and i want to thank you for your leadership for introducing h r two one three four the western hemisphere drug policy commission act of two thousand and nine is a positive step towards evaluating u s policy i also want to thank chairman engle and his staff are working in a bipartisan manner with my office and republican members of the subcommittee chairman engle worked closely to ensure that the concerns and requests the republican members were adequately addressed as we mark up h r two one three four and continue on to the hearing on u s drug policy in the americas i want to emphasize my belief that the best way to attack the problem of illicit drugs is to take an all encompassing approach to the problem some will focus on treatment or better educations others will focus on supply and the law enforcement aspect of the problem we must attack the problem from all angles and all perspectives thank you mr chairman your leadership and for your hard work and i want to urge my colleagues to support the western hemisphere drug policy commission act of two thousand and nine and vote yes on the chairman's amendment will thank you very much mr mack and thank you for your cooperation statement part of the record i just want to take a moment to highlight the connection between organized crime that is flourishing on drug money and human trafficking particularly sex trafficking of women and girls i do want to thank you and mr engel and mr mack i should say for including language that shows the nexus between drug trafficking and and sex trafficking we know that one of the ways that women are exploited in trafficking includes getting them hooked on narcotics and other dangerous drugs so that even when they are liberated many of these women go back to the traffickers because of their addiction is also a way of to come out of is being sold reducing the woman chairman angle and also the ranking member mack i thank you for convening this hearing and also for the bill of course i'm very pleased that for once we're beginning to look at both the supply and demand for illicit drugs  many of our communities have felt the brunt unfortunately of drug addiction and many of the difficulties that ensue as a result of drug addiction  and the damage that has been caused to community event individuals and society also the commission i'm very pleased to note is required to carry out investigating comprehensively look at best practices around the world to target specifically and directly the societal devastation caused by illicit drug markets and drug use from the spread of infectious diseases like hiv and aids to the surge of crime and violence this is one of the first times that i have seen the establishment of any drug policy commission that really is going to look at this in a comprehensive way to accomplish what we all want to accomplish and that's really  i thank you mr chairman i have just a brief comment i think it's about time we looked at this subject i'm very glad you're doing this i think it's a start dealing with western hemisphere but i think the overall drug policy in this country the drug war should be looked at but as a physician i want to particular emphasize the importance of looking at people who are addicted to drugs as a as a as being involved with the disease rather than criminals criminalize all this activity we compound our problems so i'm delighted that you're looking at this problem and study and study and i hope you you know the commission will pay attention to the fact that there are different ways of ok sorry a report to the full committee i said the house of lords of the full committee the ayes have it and the motion is adopted without objection the bill will be reported as a single amendment in the nature of a substitute incorporating the amendments adopted by the committee and the staff as directed to make any technical and conforming amendments ok ok as you can hear we're about to have a series of votes but we're going to to see if we can have our our first witness so i'm pleased to to welcome everyone here to our hearing now the hearing part of u s drug policy in the americas before i present my opening statement and offer members on the subcommittee the opportunity to do the same i'd like to call in our first witness my good friend congresswoman woman mary bono mack congresswoman bono mack is one of congress's foremost leaders on u s drug policy tirelessly advocating for greater spending on domestic drug prevention and treatment programs she is also a colleague of mine on my other committee the energy and commerce committee and of course also has a special relationship with this subcommittee as the wife of a ranking member mac recently several months ago had the pleasure of traveling with with both congressman mack and congresswoman bono mack and we had a very frank discussion about drug and congresswoman bono mack said that if we ever had a hearing she would be delighted to try to speak and so all these all these months i've been eagerly anticipating it because we know that your testimony is going to be statement mr chairman with you so i can make an opening statement i certainly would quickly because we're running out of time but i just i wanted to thank the chairman for the hearing and also for a sking congress on the mac to be part of the hearing today is very passionate about this issue and i think we all can learn from her experience in life and her  passion on this issue and so if it's an honor for me to be the ranking member on this committee and have the opportunity for my wife to speak to the committee about about drugs and the impact they have and the need of this congress this committee and this congress to address these issues i'm very proud of her and with that mr chairman thank you thank you congresswoman i'm glad you set the record straight over here you i was just kidding at the time but anyway chairman engel ranking member matt members of the subcommittee thank you very much for the opportunity to testify today on our government's approach to reducing the supply of and demand for drugs in the western hemisphere that challenges want it not only affects so many families across our country but also everything from our law enforcement efforts to scientific research and diplomatic priorities we need to act on all fronts prevention treatment  law enforcement is crucial there is no silver bullet in particular i have serious concerns with the trends we're seeing among our youth toward prescription drug abuse drugs like oxycontin are being abused across our country with two thousand and five hundred kids a day using a prescription drug to get high for the very first time just because it's sitting in the medicine cabinet doesn't mean it is safe and these drugs are often used as a gateway to street drugs when an addict goes after their next high they really lose sight of the risks involved and getting access to street drugs like heroin and cocaine from foreign countries becomes all too common that's exactly why the hearing today is so important we've got to increase  keeping the pressure on the drug supply line both domestically and internationally our u s drug policy is one that is woven into many branches of government but it really is one i would argue can it and indeed must be tackled at the community level i have personally experienced the effects of drug addiction in my own family much like i'm sure others in this room have our efforts in congress need an aggressive set of goals and in some cases an approach that needs to be refreshed that's why i was encouraging to see the subcommittee moments ago passed h r twenty one thirty four i look forward to helping the chairman and the ranking member in pushing this legislation forward to the full house as soon as possible the commission created in the legislation is needed as the fight is ongoing and it will allow us to better find the solutions to reducing the numbers of those using these dangerous dangerous substances which are staggering within our own borders according to the national survey on drug use and health in two thousand and eight over twenty million americans aged twelve or older worker and illicit drug users that's eight percent of that group of citizens though the trends related to abuse of drugs are stabilising we are still seeing the shift to new drugs like the prescription give us epidemic affecting rural and urban america across all economic groups we've seen in the media the violence in mexico spread across the border and drug operations moving on to us federal lands which are only a few examples of why the work of the commission is critically important to focusing our fight against this man and my family our family has been affected by addiction to prescription drugs and it is a battle that will continue to fight together but only with the right tools can parents and communities lessen the impacts to those they love to work with this committee mr chairman along with your other committee my committee the house energy and commerce committee to create a foundation for domestic and international drug policy that  balances maintaining our vital law enforcement efforts with an augmented demand side effort toward reducing substance abuse and addiction there are specific programs we can take a closer look at and i'm hopeful the commission created in h r twenty one thirty four does this as well in particular we should focus on the work undertaken by the state department's bureau of your of international narcotics and law enforcement affairs there at the tip of the spear for tracking and assisting with the foreign criminal justice system on the law enforcement side of the equation while also seeking to address demand side problems that continue to increase and both source in transit countries it is my firm belief that their demand side programme is critical to showing our commitment to helping other nations impacted by this gorge of and building a shared sense of mission and solid international alliance to confront this threat after all we can ignore the fact that as current trafficking routes mature the addiction can easily shift from making money to the drugs themselves which can contribute to dragging down local populations the state department's i n l bureau actively works to leverage taxpayer dollars so that we can work collaboratively with community groups local schools and faith based organizations that's key because it's really where we can start to see the import changes within families once the region has been stabilized at some point families living everywhere in colombia to cities in the u s should have a strong democratic foundation for communities that rely on each this issue should entail a bipartisan approach i thank you very much for the opportunity to testify and again i look forward to supporting our twenty thirty fourth and it shows me and the rest of congress since your commitment to these issues should prove a strong step in the right direction for the americas thank you very much thank you very much congresswoman and i certainly think your highlighting prescription drug abuse is certainly very important tends to get lost  shuffle and it shouldn't because it's a problem of epidemic proportion and i'm also glad that you you stress bipartisanship the only way we're going to tackle the problems with drugs in america on the western hemisphere by working in a bipartisan manner a drug addiction doesn't stop at a democratic house or a republican house goes to all houses all american houses in both north and south america so i thank you for highlighting that i don't know if the ranking member would like to make a comment but somehow i think you better thank you mr chairman there was a threat of the couch earlier mr chairman and  congresswoman back i want to thank you for your testimony here because i you know i think it gives people an opportunity to hear from others others that are policy makers but also have been affected personally and it's not it's not easy and it's not every day that people are willing to put themselves out as you have and i commend you for that and i'm very proud of you thank you i think will let that be the last word needless to say we're we're all proud of you and sometimes it's not very easy to talk publicly about private things that go on in a family and it takes a great deal of courage  your courage i thank you for your expertise and look forward to continuing to work with you in this very difficult to these difficult problems and i know you have a lot to offer so i thank you and as people can see as people can hear we have about five minutes left for a vote so we're going to go and take a series of votes come right back after the votes and then we'll listen to our next panel until we recess temporarily till about five minutes after the vote the subcommittee will come to order will be it will begin i will let anyone who would like an opening statement to do so and i'll make mine first and let me first say that assessing u s drug policy in the americas is  something that's very very important and is something that is long overdue reassessing certainly is on the over do report after report over the past year has come to the same conclusion that u s counter narcotics efforts are not giving us the results we want to see whether it is the brookings institution the international crisis group of the latin american commission on drugs and democracy chaired by three former latin american presidents the general conclusion is the same it's time to reassess our counter narcotics efforts and construct a new strategy even secretary of state hillary rodham clinton said in march that quote clearly what we've been doing has not worked well billions of u s taxpayer dollars have been spent over the years to fight the drug war and latin american the caribbean the positive results are unfortunately few and far between but too long our country has over it overly focused on the supply side of the drug while paying far too little attention to what happens here at home i'm shocked that while the united states accounts for approximately five percent of world population in two thousand and seven an estimated seventeen percent of the world's of illegal drugs were from the united states i'm pleased that president obama and secretary clinton have quickly taken leadership in asserting that the u s must do more to reduce our demand for illegal drugs on our first visit to mexico a to be our drugs our should say seattle police chief to become our drugs are he noted that the success of our efforts to reduce the flow of drugs is largely dependent on our ability to reduce demand for them these statements are a breath of fresh air as far i i'm concerned i look forward to working with the obama administration to build a more balanced strategy that increases our investment in domestic prevention and treatment programs as well but let me be clear reassessment of u s drug policy certainly should not mean a rejection of our existing programs which seek to curtail the supply of illicit narcotics on the contrary we must continue to support our friends in the americas as they come back drug cartels in their own countries and of course mexico and colombia come to mind but we must do so with clear goals in mind and in a more holistic and better coordinated manner as we all know there are several pieces to the u s counter narcotics strategy in the region the and the encounter narcotics initiative mostly focused on colombia but also peru bolivia and ecuador to marry an issue there with his main focus in mexico but also in central america as we had discussed at a private meeting that we had before the hearing and the recently proposed caribbean basic security initiative c b s i there are many excellent components to each of these programs and i've been a strong supporter of their efforts but for far far too long we've overly focused count effort efforts on one specific country or sub region only to see the drug trade quickly move to the next place in the hemisphere for example as president calderon bravely combat drug traffickers in mexico and i'm a big supporter of what president calderon is doing the drug trade has slammed guatemala a country with weaker institutions that its neighbor to the north and a lower capacity to come back violent drug cartels if we want to see real results on the front counter narcotics front and greater security here in our own neighborhood we must move away from the current piecemeal approach to counter narcotics and embrace a more holistic strategy i urge the obama administration to work with our partners in the hemisphere to develop a counter narcotics strategy that can withstand the so called balloon effect that results from pressure in one region causing the drug trade to move to another region that can only be done to a better coordinated more holistic caribbean basic syrian issue will fit into those operations or who will manage its integration into existing efforts i therefore call for an executive branch coordinator at the state department to oversee and manage our count narcotics programs in the americas forty years ago in july in one thousand nine hundred sixty nine president richard nixon identified drug abuse as quote a serious national threat two years after that president nixon declared a war on drugs identifying drug abuse as quote public enemy number one unfortunately for decades later rather than being able to recount our successes we find ourselves asking what went wrong we cannot hesitate in reassess s drug supply and demand policies so that our children are not having this same discussion forty years from now and i thank everyone for listening i'm now pleased to call on my good friend ranking member mack for his opening statement thank angle for holding this hearing today and i want to also say congratulations for passing your bill earlier today i guess our bill and i appreciate your working across the aisle with us our bill is correct and thank you for working with me on the bill and also the lady we just had testify working with us as well i think the problem of illicit drugs affects individuals from all cultures and all walks of life when we evaluate u s drug policy in the americas we must take an all in compass singh approach to the problem which we've talked about here today the debate on supply and demand must be looked at from a different paradigm some will focus on the treatment or better education others will focus on supply and the law enforcement aspect of the problem we must attack the problem from all angles and all perspectives mr chairman our policy must be effective but more importantly it must be objective first we must have reliable partners who are serious about curbing drug partner such as peru and colombia the zero in d c p has said that colombia went from an almost failed state to a strong democratic nation with an improving economy and reduced levels of violence in order to have a comprehensive and sensible approach to the drug problem facing the hemisphere we must have we must have leaders who are actually who actually care about curbing both the demand and the supply  according to our very own office of national drug control policy bolivians leader ever morales continues to pursue drug policies that would not only violate current bolivian law but would also according to president obama venezuela has failed during the past year when it comes to counter narcotics efforts the administration continues that venezuela has refused to cooperate on almost all counter  chavez refusal to act responsibly not only hurts americans but now then as well and has the second highest murder rate in the world the venezuelan government's alignment with drug lords is so pervasive that ministers of the ch z government are now categorized as tier two kingpins frankly mr chairman in our role as members of the western hemisphere subcommittee subcommittee we must conclude the leaders of the west of the hemisphere who act  responsibly and even in a holistic fashion that their actions end up killing americans we must conclude that regardless of supply or demand eradication or treatment programs for heavy  users there must be responsible leadership from the top as we hear from our witnesses today i look forward to a healthy debate where we can address both the supply problems but also the demand problem we must look at reducing programs duplications and foster interagency collaboration mr chairman it's important as i've said when i first started is that our analysis be objective the supply of drugs has come has become a much more complex matter than drugs coming from latin america and into the united states presently according to the two thousand and nine state department report on current narcotics strategy the u s has become the top producer of two out of the four most threatening treasury and also the house financial services committee to improve the situation we all know the drug traffickers are incredibly smart but if we can possibly manage a step ahead of them to be able to surge of crime and violence but thank you again mr chairman i want to thank our ranking member because i think this is a major step in the right direction all of our communities know and feel the impact of drug use this is something that's very very important now very pleased to introduce our distinguished private witnesses first to mark schneider senior vice president and special adviser on latin american ally in america at the international crisis group he previously served as director of the peace corps and as assistant administrator for latin america and the caribbean at the u s agency for international development usa id and neither has  been before this committee i believe on two previous occasions as well we always value his testimony and his expertise so i thank you john walsh is a senior associate for andy's and drug policy at the washington office on latin america well so very much mr walsh for to hear what you have to say and last but certainly not not least walser is a senior policy analyst for latin america at the heritage foundation he also has appeared before this committee and we welcome his excellent testimony so thank you three gentlemen for coming and we'll start with you mr schneider let me remind everyone that if you want to put your testimony into the record i will do that and you can summarize your remarks with five minutes and i ask you to please keep it in the five minutes let me thank you mr schneider thank you very much german members of the committee for the invitation to appear before you today  on assessing u s drug policy in the americas and also for your statements recognizing the nature of this problem nature the threat to poses to the united states and to the countries of the hemisphere and i also want to congratulate you on the approval of legislation stablish in the western hemisphere drug policy commission act it seems to me that this is the kind of measure which does provide for a bipartisan and hopefully very broad reexamination of the issues facing this country with respect to counter narcotics policy i appeared before you on behalf of the international crisis group and i would appreciate my testimony being in full being incorporated in the record of objection the in the america's crisis group has been particularly engaged in the andean countries in haiti and seeking to basically to prevent conflict and to bring to bring conflicts where they exist to an end in both of those areas as well as essential american transit areas transit countries violence corruption and instability result from coca called evasion cocaine production and trafficking and the supposed significant threats to democratic institutions as has been mentioned over the past seven years we spent some six point eight strategy group is called for that kind of independent review and as you noted mr chairman the latin american commission on drugs and democracy focused on the same history cause the results of the war on drugs strategy and suggested that radical revision was needed i think it's important these leaders are concerned about the violence in their own countries that drug trafficking poses they're concerned about rising illegal consumption within their countries  particular add say in the southern cone countries this is something that's growing in chile argentina brazil and of course in colombia the links to legal armed groups that accompany drug traffic traffic and as you noted mr chairman this is an issue that is a regional issue and requires a regional solution and hopefully this commission will be a mechanism for doing so and i also want to emphasize the importance of the commission's finding that there is a need in looking at the problem of of addiction and looking at it through a public health focus rather than from a prosecution lens and that demand reduction position also is echoed by the new director of the white house national drug policy kerlikowske also said that one fifth of all of the cocaine users in the united states account for two thirds of us total cocaine consumption and less than ten percent of all diagnosed cases of addiction are treated and about half of the nine million people behind bars in this country had serious addiction problems and of the seven hundred thousand that are released each year about half of them still have addiction problems and i've not had treatment and in countries as some of the charts that i have put into the testimony i just call your attention to one show on page four that indicates that over the course of the last twenty one years from time but basically about the same level despite everything that's been done so clearly there's a need to revise that and the other point that it raises one other chart in there that shows from the joint  joint task force in rich desperate south south west which found that last year over a thousand metric tons came through central america and mexico mexico to the united states and of that for the first time sixty five percent stopped first in central america rather than mexico and as you noted those countries have far less capability to meet both the weapons and the  corruption that the drug traffickers possess and clearly as you know yourself mr chairman in the caribbean president provide use drug trafficking as a major threat to the political transition in haiti and to his political reforms in that country and finally since i see the clock ticking down let me just emphasize that there are three issues that we consider to be crucial one is that placing far more priority of public health perspective demand reduction bringing to national scale the good pilot programs that exist drug courts are second in the supply country concentrate more on rural poverty reduction as  the who are most vulnerable to trafficking these are youth who unfortunately have not had a lot of education done a lot of job opportunities a strategy must be developed to deal with that problem and mr chairman let me just finally say here at home we have a responsibility to halt the arms flow south we're asking the countries in the region to better job holding drugs thank you thank you very much mr  chairman angle right the member makan members of the subcommittee it's an honor to be here today to testify especially in light of the the advance of the bill to create a western hemisphere drug policy commission which could be a very important moment in reframing the debate on such an important issue in concert with this debate as you've all remarked within latin america itself there is growing debate and growing unease about the direction of drug control policy including the leadership of respected former presidents of major countries mexico brazil and colombia calling for a rectification a redirection it thirty years of drug control policy so this is clearly an opportune moment for such a debate i have my statement be entered in full in the record and i'll just summarize some points briefly here without objection so so moved thank  you since the first point of this hearing is about assessment i'll focus on the major point which is that our current and now longstanding policies have very evidently failed to achieve their most fundamental objective as mr schneider mentioned in terms of coca is remained remarkably stable at around two hundred thousand hectares for these past twenty years despite our best efforts with regard to the price purity of drugs like cocaine in our country which a chief objective of our enforcement led strategies to drive up those prices over the last twenty years the prices have dropped significantly and are now at or near their all time lows significantly the street price of cocaine is now more than twenty percent lower than it was before the outset of plan colombia this is not happy news but i think if we are to assess the policies we have to acknowledge we can debate what to do now but we have to see that our basic policies have failed to meet their fundamental objectives i would add that it's not merely that these policies have been ineffective they have cause an enormous amount of collateral damage whether intentional or not part of that is directly because of the policies and their implementation we can look at fumigation and its impact on farmers who do who livelihoods are lost part of it is indirect because of what we've called the balloon effect the spread of trafficking in the drug trade to new areas under the pressure of enforcement these aspects need to be considered by the commission a second point interagency coordination which we've all talked about i think is obviously crucial but it's important i think even more so to focus on getting the goals and the strategies right and i would say that commission again presents the opportunity to revisit those fundamental goals and see if we can be more nuanced more clear and set out goals and set priorities that are worthwhile and achievable that hasn't been the case today i think another huge benefit of the commission's approach is that it addresses supply and demand at the same time several people have remarked i think this is true but i think that's not enough of itself and i would propose that a good way to move forward is to frame the drug policy priority questions as how can we reduce the harms associated with drugs and drug markets but also minimize the damage and harms associated with drug control policies and i think we can have a better shot at setting the proper priorities and strategies that way we laid it to the point of goals and goal setting is that the performance measurement matters tremendously the indicators that we choose to evaluate our policies are not an academic point they're going to shape our policy for instance with regard to crop control if our main indicator is crop number of pictures eradicated agencies are going to focus on that whether it bears direct relation to our fundamental goals of of reducing availability or not we might focus instead on measures of the welfare and well being of the families who are actually farming crops like  in the theory that as their wellbeing improves they're able to ease off their reliance on illicit crops like coca finally i think this is a crucial point drug policy  has no easy answers it's more a series of bad options and choosing the least bad that said we can do this and i think that is the motivation behind the commission itself there's a been a lot of enthusiasm over the years i think that stem in part from it's easy to blame other folks for our problems but also from a sense of boy there's not much we can do about our problems and i think that's not true i think there's a lot of examples going on in the united states and across the region that give hope that we can actually accomplish what we want with smarter demand and supply policies and through policies and framework that we do says the harm associate with drug markets and drug policies i thank you very much for attention i look forward to your questions thank  i too am very heartened to hear news of h r two one three four passing today in fact i wrote a backgrounder saying what are some of the things that the obama administration can do when it comes into office this back in february and i actually recommended the creation of such a commission i had experience back in the one nine hundred eighty s with the creation of one outcome and results but the national bipartisan commission on central america took this sort of  approach to a very contentious issue and i think it laid a very fundamental framework for bipartisan strategies i would like to introduce my testimony which i've left with you into the record without objection so i think that i would just add a few couple of observations of things that you are going to have to deal with in the future first of all as i think we have to continue to look very closely at the successes of colombia i think that colombia is the pivotal country clearly given the production of cocaine there have stressed some of its failures but there are many successes that have occurred  reductions in violence the reduction in terrorism control of national territory it is the building of strong states in latin america that is one of the fundamental objectives of a comprehensive counter drug strategy  and i think that the united states has gone with considerable efforts and certainly with your support and others to build a very much stronger colombian state than we had ten years ago i also echo the importance of supporting president calderon and his fight against the drug cartels in mexico it would be good if we could see that we could see a turning point but it's still going to be a very difficult challenge i  would like to introduce one i think that in the drug trade we deal a lot with the political context clearly in the political context in united states but i think we have to also look that there is  the western hemisphere a growing body that really seems to be sort of pulling against us and i believe that the u s should be deeply concerned about the connections that develop between the drug trade and the ball of aryan revolution widely for claimed  purports to see the integration of peoples regimes for the promotion of social justice for the benefit of the poor and marginalized it cloaks a consistent strategy of non cooperation aimed at reducing u s access and influence in the region booting the drug enforcement agency waxing whenever u s influence i introduce in my in my testimony a number of recommendations largely coinciding with with those which you have recommended a consolidation of undertakings why should we have a plan colombia america and if caribbean security i think we need certainly more interagency cooperation command and control in the drug fight requires a robust whole of government approach and constant agency coordination with democratic states of the americas must continue to approach organized drug and drug criminal organizations with same determination and application of resources they employ to prevent international terrorism i certainly think we should continue to strengthen our term our ties with colombia and clearly one of those things that we can do to boost legal trade is to pass the free trade agreement with colombia clearly i think it's time to begin the planning stages i remember the merit an issue largely run out this year in terms of finding it's time to look at merit two or some more comprehensive undertaking such as you have suggested finally i too agree that we have there are vulnerable countries in central america guatemala being one of the islands in the caribbean that need special attention and need to be  sort of a urgent watch list by the u s department of state and finally i would make one observation on the demand side i think that in the person of the forty fourth president the united states we have a powerful authority whose charismatic voice needs to be heard in targeted messages regarding the danger of drugs the time appears ripe for the president to employ his formidable powers of persuasion to convince younger american younger americans the change in hope and their lives we put some money for central america because of that for years whenever the drug trade has been attacked in one place in the hemisphere it quickly pops up in another so what can be done to counter and the caribbean and i also throwing in with that do our counter narcotics programs need greater flexibility to deal with emerging problems such as the influx of drug cartels in guatemala i mentioned that before  we've held a hearing in the subcommittee on guatemala you know the problem with the mexican border with the united states that's a problem but when we push they just go south of the border  guatemala is the most vulnerable country that doesn't have the institutions that mexico has and the ability to cope with it do we need to have more flexibility you know counter narcotics programs to deal terms of trafficking so with respect to cultivation in the ninety's when we were putting a lot of pressure on bolivia and peru we saw the shift to colombia and in fact now we're seeing some increase in cultivation in both peru and and bolivia as a result of the pressure in colombia although colombia remains by far by far the largest producer of cocoa cocoa and cocaine with respect to the flow to the united nine and again they show five hundred thirty four metric tons coming north the bulk of those from colombia however the same kind of blue effect works on the trash side so when we put pressure in mexico clearly the result is the drug traffickers is that chart shows they go to guatemala and they also go to panama and costa rica and now in the last couple of months to honduras so it seems to me that what we need to think about is a regional effort i would urge you thinking about how the new western hemisphere drug policy commission can incorporate in some way the work that latin american commission has already done and how it there might be some parallel if not advisory group to your commission from latin american countries particularly mexico central america in the andes and the caribbean in order to try and develop some regional actions and i emphasize there particularly  aspects law enforcement and strengthening their institutions of civilian police and process prosecutors and judiciary and the other regional look at what we can do with the youth problem in those countries thank you yes mr walsh thank you i would add with regard to the balloon effect to two important points the most important being that i don't think there is a counter to the balloon effect but b etter coping with the balloon effect in so far as demand persists at very high levels in other words as long as there is a very large lucrative market then the supplies can be shifted by enforcement but not dramatically curtailed and that's what the balloon effect is the shifting of the production and trafficking to other places so how to cope with that i mean the paramount answer is do better in reducing demand and shrinking the market here especially because it's the world's largest but the second part coping goes to what mark said strengthening those institutions that have to deal with the impacts whether it's in colombia or central america or mexico and i think that's a key aspect it's not about what you do immediately it's how you strengthen the is to cope with the impacts in terms of increased crime armed actors in all those places so i think those are the two big ones but to  understand that it's a it's a coping strategy so long as there's a massive demand can shift can shift the trafficking without eliminating thank you let me did between defense officials and i think that looking at ways to perhaps develop a more cooperative central american drug might be a potential vehicle for trying to counteract is dealing with wash over at the state department it's unclear who is overseeing our counter narcotics efforts in the western hemisphere and perhaps if we let the confirmation process continues and we had running the and they in program and the marriage initiative not the same people and i still don't know how the caribbean basin security initiative will be combined into these operations of who will oversee in the entire strategy now our full committee foreign affairs committee has already passed legislation calling for a coordinator at the state department for the merit initiative and this hearing opens the question of how best to manage our western agency coordinator you have the white house but in a sense that's looking both the demand and supply and it seems to me that that's a very important role that you don't want to diminish now at the same time you make a good point that there needs to be greater coordination within the western hemisphere programs both in terms of reducing supply and i would argue here that includes alternative development in the various countries and it also includes dealing with the problems of  among the various agencies and they in fact have urged that there be some kind of coordination mechanism seems to be a very useful idea but i would put it in a way so that these directly challenge in the western hemisphere it's not just one or two people who need to be have more responsibility but they need to be a team that is prepared to think creatively about these new indicators of success and really do the coordination because it's one thing to put it on paper and it's another thing to carry it out thank you dr walser we still have a supposedly promised a special envoy for the americas perhaps the special envoy position in the white house could be created primarily to deal with the drug issue but again i also agree that there has to be some sort of streamlining of a central coordinator who will referee demand here in the u s and i'd like to ask each one of you if you have a propos and idea that is is kind of rooted in research that subjective that we can and we can use to really and i'm asking a question that i think i know some of the answers to but i won't but i think it's important that when we talk about the demand on the demand side it's easy to say the demand side but you really have to find a way to get at reducing the urge for people to use drugs and  those that have how to how can you help them work through their addiction and so the question is is what kind of proven methods techniques are you familiar with and that you think ought to be moved forward and then the other side you know i mean it's no secret my my position when it comes to venezuela's hugo chavez but as i sit through our mr chairman as i sit through all of our  hearings in our conversations you know for me the anchor if you will of evil in latin america is hugo chavez whether it's the destruction of freedom government distil  you know destabilizing governments anti semitism terrorism and drug trafficking i mean these are all things that are that are anchored in the western hemisphere  the other part of the question is when we talk about narco trafficking how is it how are we going to be able to convince hugo chavez to stop drugs from moving through his borders when fact in my opinion he's looking to destabilize he this is a tool that i believe he's using so i'll leave the two questions out to all three of you courts that's one thing and the second if you'll permit me to your your wife's testimony what we have failed to do is failed to make this a priority reduction of the use of illicit with respect to stopping the use of cocaine while as you recall as i said the two thirds of the cocaine use are from addicts who require public health response the other third of recreational users and what we need to do is i would say that no other country in the hemisphere agreed with any country allowing drugs to flow through really and so i would urge that we would look in here it goes back to the regional aspect i would urge our diplomats and the state department to talk with president lula with president bout your lane to bring to them the details of what we see in terms of the flow of drugs recently through venezuela through hispaniola through the united states or from venezuela to the european market through west africa and emphasized because they also are facing the problem of drug trafficking and drug consumption in their countries and i think we have allies in dealing with that problem with  them as to the demand reduction question which i think is should be central to what the commission considers i have to two basic points one is to extend what mark said first where someone who is a problematic for him or her needs to be there for him or her so i would say in thinking about bringing our treatment system up to speed treatment on demand needs to be the  goal that's going to mean different things in different communities but it shouldn't require being arrested to have access to treatment so treatment on demand and i think where we have good people in place to think this through at zero in the city is well real experts in the field  that improves the quality of the treatment but also access to it those are critical issues the second point is that as valuable i think and as as drug courts have been i think for reasons mark said they fall very short in terms of their scope considering that the dimensions of the of the problem and in particular if a lot of the drug use including drug use among people who are involved in other crimes is actually concentrated among a population is under criminal justice supervision there are policy innovations like opportunity probation with enforcement known as hope that has shown really great success in reducing drug use drug related crime and incarceration among probationers through a series of frequent drug tests frequent random drug tests followed by my old sanctions you're not back in prison for two years if you use a drug test but it's miles high to have been dramatically effective in cutting back drug use also new arrests and new crime so i think there are innovations not just in people's minds but already on the ground in this country that can help reduce demand much more than we have appreciated so far on the on the question of venezuela and more generally i think on the question of a country or a region that could prove sort of weak link to a strategy i think there's we need to think about a strategy in this in a way that removes where minimizes the  possibility that whatever weak link it might be people will see it differently could could scuttle the strategy and that again points to we need to take better care to address our problems here at home rather than have to depend upon thirty four other countries in their wins to do it for us with regard to venezuela however i would i think that the question of drug trafficking and crime so huge problem for the venezuelan government and the venezuelan people and i suggest that it is much more a matter of capacity we capabilities a very porous border with colombia which remains the maker producer of cocaine then it is a political will and i and i second the idea that we should look to engage not to demonize for cooperation on that issue i think i did offer a demand reduction recommendation which is engaging president obama himself directly and demand reduction campaign i think his story his impact would be  chavez on the list of state sponsors of terrorism he would join the company of cuba and sudan and i think the fourth one all of a sudden i'm drawing a blank here but clearly nations with which he is cultivated very close and increasingly intimate ties the second one clearly is to reduce our dependency upon venezuelan oil before he  finds the alternate markets that he is busily searching for and wants to cut us off from his supply of oil so pressure probably hardball politics seem to be an order with  demand in the united states for cocaine that it's very very difficult to close out the capacity of drug traffickers to find places to cultivate  occurred in the last several years in going after the large cocoa plantations and that the drug traffickers are using in colombia it shattered and they moved much smaller plots much  challenges the drug traffickers the drug traffickers offer credit they offer to pick up products at the farm after it's harvested and that's not offered to those who are doing legitimate farming we need to that you've seen discussed recently committee and she often comes to our subcommittee welcome so if i could just ask you to try to think a little a little faster so we can get this all in before we have to leave for votes very very quickly then i agree with everything that mark just said by way of explanation of colombia i think the the we we started the illusion that fumigation was going to solve the coca problem in colombia and it was just that it was an illusion because the underlying conditions market demand that's rural poverty a lucrative related crimes addictions and wasted lives are among the most preventable burden upon our health system our justice system and our penal system as it relates to illicit drugs alcohol does the same thing and so i'm interested in  of your thinking on why we don't look at alcohol because the impact is exactly the same secondly prescription drug use and let me just give you one example and i hope the commission looks at this thank goodness congresswoman mack brown this up why don't we look at and should we look at physicians prescription for pain reduction and why a drug such as oxy cotton is allowed to be prescribed first a narcotic first before all other forms of painkillers could be introduced why do oftentimes and i kno for a fact go to the most serious narcotic that could be the basis for an addiction long term since you mentioned my testimony i agree alcohol the harm done by alcohol the harm done by drugs the harm done by tobacco sadly human nature in this country and around the world seems to enjoy those pleasures which are harmful to us and it is part of the human psychology that is why dying after drug it's so difficult during the addiction connections the physical response clearly i'm not a i'm not a physician but they are of a similar nature  i'll also have to acknowledge my lack of expertise in the question of how to best regulate pharmaceuticals in a particular painkillers given their liability for abuse and on the question  interest of the harms that it causes and i would note that it's a legal substance it may cause more harm than some of the currently illicit substances part of that is the scale of use because it is legal  far more widely used than a drug like cocaine part of the question i think the commission is grappling with is because alcohol is legal by and large it's not smuggled across borders and  huge multinational organized criminal enterprise at this stage and that's another key aspect of the commission's work that i think it's as relevant i think the east to about call does raise important questions about the range of options for us to manage cope with the harms caused by illicit drug abuse because we control our regulated although it is legal so it when you think about how we can try to control how we try to control tobacco nicotine it opens up the way of thinking about how to best regulate supply and demand for substances that are that cause harm or potentially addictive and toxic two questions one to support the commission that is being set up i think that it is time to shed light i come from texas and right now we're dealing with an enormous gun battle and drug wars on the  border between mexico and the united states but houston has been called the drug running or the gun running capital where there is enormous access to guns how does the flow of guns  into south and central america impact on the and i know we speak about drug use but impact on the overall criminal elements of this and how do we look to those issues the the utilization of guns as we look relevantly to the question of consumption and the question of course sales how is the gun aspect and engage in all essentially makes them a more potent threat to law enforcement and in fact there's been now a substantial amount of tracing of weapons that have been used in homicides in central america in guatemala of officials in both the united states and they strongly came out for regulating assault rifles and assault weapons because they've shown up in mexico and obviously would be used to cause enormous amount of damage and loss of i would only add that knowledge in the u s is own responsibilities for the violence in particular in mexico it's not only the market for drugs in other words we're spending our terrible combination and i think it is also our responsibility not just to do better to address demand in shrinking our own drug market but to do better to be more responsible about our own was with regard to easy access and trafficking of weapons just to comment the figure of ninety percent of the guns recovered in mexico are traced back to the united states that figure doesn't oftentimes stand up to the full scrutiny because many of the gun those of the guns that are the mexicans recover and then request the tracing of not taking into account those that are recovered and and request are not made so the number is smaller but it's still significant there's no there's no doubt that significant numbers of guns especially high caliber and assault weapons make it across the border and are purchased we do have a fairly strong body of laws that says most all of this is  illegal we need tougher enforcement of that and to move to the next stage such as the congressman engel and others have put forth is a tough legislative battle i think on both sides and chairman thank you for allo me and i hope that my questioning on the guns issue allows us to partnership on almost like mixing oil and fire or water and fire i think we will not cease the violence and then to be able to focus on the problem of drugs without this whole enormous problem of guns coming from the united states into that region you know mr mr actually before you before you leave before we adjourn it's interesting that into said the exact same thing to me that between ninety two and ninety five percent of all the guns that they find committing crimes including drug crimes are coming from the united states so this is a a definite problem that has to be addressed and i believe you were part of a letter that i had sent to the president the united states urging him to implement laws that are already on the books that don't need legislation  to to have a law it's already there it was implemented by the first president bush by president clinton was not implemented by george w bush and now we're just asking the president to go back and do what the first bush and the clinton ministrations were doing and it's simple and to me it's a no brainer so i thank you for raising that issue i thank you for your leadership and we know that that is separated from the second amendment that people want to use all the time thank you definitely thank you and thank you gentlemen for