christians from their homes kidnapping raping and forced conversions a christian women expulsion and destructions of christians property and businesses by muslim extremists with no state action christians has failed or they are a party has built to punish the perpetrators for attacks on the churches if human rights watch thought e g do not cover up the military killing of the cops or testers in two thousand and that's yeah a very big question and there is the case of your client and what he complained about and that the immigration officials thought he was not credible so if we could take in finding that your client was not credible let's say they should have they should have believed your client the stated discrepancies were not significant enough between the fall or is there were any discrepancies at all what happens with this case let's let's say we just i'm so if we were to find he should have been found credible but we're not yet convinced yet i'm not saying you're right or wrong we're not quite there on the other part of the case then yours will be and we should wish you well i'm not saying that i'm trying to think through the evidence for the purpose of a skipping arm may actually be consistent with the claim for asylum and this is exactly what he did here he was trying to leave the country well the government is saying no one of us these happened that i tell you is there anywhere in the record where the  well not the be in the i j a made reference to it would would have made reference to that is the reason why he was trying to come to the united states versus an actual threat of persecution  six and he made eight attempts throughout the years to try to come to the united states it wasn't just because his family just won the lottery at the very end when he lost hope to go easy after eight terms of trying he came into the and i go back to the pattern and practice the record before this we're gone beyond a conclusion that the coptic christian of egypt are a minority does suffer from systematic and tap that is widespread across egypt informed of ongoing attacks against your t s crossed egypt not one it was across egypt you're either ms thomas you're running out of time so you want to i'll give you a minute for rivaldo but if you want to wrap up with one or two sentences now i'll give you a little trouble with that what i have to say it seems to me that if someone lives in a place like egypt you're coptic christian you know probably not the greatest place to be right now if you're coptic christian you might want to call the united states because it just seems like the land of opportunity  better place to come and then all of the sudden this horrible thing happens and now you're like well now i really want to get out of here is now this thing happened with we'll be there on cock coffee on me or tea and my dogs being killed why are those two inconsistent to the point where we could find them not credible the desire to come to the united states i agree the court could look at it that way ron of the i j kind of looked at that that he wanted to come to the united states and that he also happens to suffer persecution  the fact that you know applied before any act of persecution and then kept applying over and over and over again including after his family was that if these are the diversity visa lottery your honor there's two ways to look at it it could be as you said kind of to independent things or it could be that it's actually and that's pretty well documented i mean i don't i don't see that there's a big argument there so i think that case needs at least turns on the question of whether he was credible not whether there's  a major issue with egypt all right we agree on reducing the case turns largely on his credibility determination and as i said even if the court perhaps doesn't fully buy the argument that the st application or  of persecution and terms of whether the petitioner left immediately for cairo or left the week later whether they immediately went to a neighbor or instead immediately had to go to a medical doctor for treatment and i realize they're possibly different ways to read the record different ways to read the testimony wasn't the petitioner was inconsistent within his own testimony or as in his own statements as that the petitioner story didn't match a different witness of story every case i've seen involving this rule giving up just an opportunity to explain and consisten within his own statements and asking the petitioner to explain why his father's statements didn't match his own without asking for speculation and also i think just the rule on segregating witnesses which did happen in this case but the father was sent out of the courtroom go to a doctor that we know is this private clinic and what's unclear is whether he's referring to immediately after the attack or you immediately after the conversation with the neighbor and he was immediately afterwards we don't know what that's modified or pertains to we don't know that immediately after the attack or immediately after the conversation with the neighbor i think from the context your honor i mean what it's worth i read it the same way as the immigration judge is saying that immediately after the attack they went to they went to a doctor to get the treatment which makes sense he claims he had a broken arm and then some of that they were trying to get that treated immediately and as i said i didn't rely on the petitioner being inconsistent with his up within his own a and i didn't rely on that then the doctor on what a firearm but that's not the basis here and at the very least though the rule about giving an opportunity to explain and consistencies as i said i couldn't find a case where that was applied i think in this context it appears that the behave made its own determination as a footnote your honor saying that they're not going to address the other bases that the i g determine for credibility purposes anyway so i agree on the credibility issue yes rather and so what credibility that  and therefore d leave it that's why i left what he said it is that they were there for him specifically they you know there was the situation where they then the course there with the hot tea on its stomach that that might have been the same incident i'm sure there was another and then of course there was the incidents involving d the unfortunate placement  of the family home right across the street from a monist which apparently according to him was somewhat radicalized and the people came across the street and all kinds of stuff happened and he