confirming to make sure that we're using the correct amount that you have given us which was going back to eleven point three so we need chicago has maintained all assure a full and continuous pension credit of all service which is covered by a retirement system that section one of one section one hundred nine a pension credit is defined as a credit acquired by  employee in the form of service as defined by the law governing each of the systems in which he has credits should probably system allowed mr pradelle to gain point four percent of the entitled to that point for and again somewhat repetitive section one twenty one says a proportional retirement show be computed by each participating system in which the pension credit has been established on the basis which at that point four percent or twenty years but either way they took that away from him they're not allowed to do that and somebody somebodies idea wise in this is fired you know we look for other cases we the west case had such unusual facts that it really has i would say very limited application other than just the general language about what the purpose of you know of the pension acts are was and which doesn't have anything for i did not address the west case and every because i think that the west case while it states in general principles which are taken from a lot of different things they don't have any application to this particular case that's that's the reason why i mention it is that it very very few facts of cases i remember correctly it had to do with whether a person could transfer from one system to the other whether it can be by a legislative act or whether it could be done otherwise courts said that there wasn't anything in the statute which required to be done pursuant to a legislative action that doesn't have anything it's not even remotely related to the case before and at the time that he retired he was fifty seven years old and had less than thirty five years service credit so at this point he had a choice that you could either greatly renewed every deuced retirement he have less than thirty five years service for it or you could make what's known as an early retirement option without an early retirement payment without this which is a one time contribution  number of years of service created has to do with the purest action sixteen there is one point seven six and that particular statute says that a person can get up to two years of service credit for a new sick day because the combined crude sick leave for the chicago public schools to arrest seated two years what t r s did was they reduced the amount of service i can skip ahead to that part of you you know if you want me to address that ok so this reduced him to less than thirty five years or meant that he had less than thirty five years of service credit in this case if you take a look at this page two sixty eight of the appellate court record i think it's quite clear that we did not take away service eight which was later revised that benefit i asked them and it's clear on its face that is exactly what it says it's a benefit estimate at the time which clearly was revised by t r s so the factual finding by the board of trustees that we took away service credit from t r s with respect to the young sickly rather than the chicago teachers pension fund is not and that particular section is entitled maximum benefits and it says its files in nor that shall the combined retirement or survivor exceed the highest annuity which would have been payable by any purpose paid system limited to two years of service credit for on sick days but for the euro contribution that would have meant that his pension benefits would ins use and as i said earlier once he made this case is that the retirement in the twenty dash one twenty four speaks of service credit of speaks of a retirement in order rather than service credit but the fallacy with this argument is that the total seventy five percent have been paid to him if you credit him with the sick leave in whole system he said he was entitle to but see he would not have been able to get the seventy five percent if he had made  contribution well as it would have been greatly reduced without but that's only because you took the sick leave away isn't it well we didn't take the sick leave the way our statute limits the amount of  right but it's so it's only because you took that away that he did have the muslim pension that is cracked but then we go back to the language of twenty dash one twenty four he could not under twenty dash one twenty four you validated in that system joy is it me well what it means to me is that if section twenty dash one twenty four of sexually says let's assume for the sake of discussion that he had actually receive all of the service credit in t r s if he had done that he was limited to the two years and he could get a retirement and it would be more than if he had gotten it all and that's exactly what we did we have limited the amount of sick leave unused sick leave that could be credited to the two years allowed by their stash take a look at the last line of twenty dash one twenty four and i think that that really is it right on page one i really do think that in this case outcome of your decision point and one purpose section twenty four and quite honestly in my mind there's there's really little serious argument to spew but let's assume i'm sorry kelly can just ask you isn't twenty just one twenty four say no matter what no matter how many years you have been either system if you're using the reciprocal system your pension it's just basically saying in general you just can't get more than the maximum pension for your pension system you're claiming it so in other words interiors you're limited to a maximum pension of seventy five percent system but i don't have enough time to try separate pension from each system i'm going to use three separate i can exceed eighty five percent of my salary in pension so some maybe if i stay twenty five years i'm not going to use my time and i am after i won't be able to try anything or use it in a reciprocal system because if i did it would exceed eighty five percent i think that's what twenty one twenty four same as well i would respectfully believe that it goes beyond that for the simple reason that you can't you can't compute what the person would be entitled to or retirement without looking at their service credit because it's not just it's not just the sec a matter of not exceeding the seventy five percent section twenty there's one point four really goes to the amount of retirement you knew already that anybody would be entitled to it at any given point in time doesn't just say you can't get more than seventy five t and that's multiplied by you know by by the percentage well if they had gotten all of their service credit back point into your ass you have to take into consideration the amount of sick that they would have proven there's a limitation ok now if he had worked eleven point three three years in the chicago public school system right he'd get his full two years a credit for the guy who is sick leave and t r s british and shall if possible be interpreted as the effect the purpose of over how ever if this is not possible the provisions of the article governing the participating system with the exception of those covering suspension  and the reciprocal lack then the reciprocal act says when you go back to interpret this according to the participating system which in this case is to the iraqis so that takes you directly back to applying the two year benefit estimate that was done in september of two thousand and five or over three years prior to mr bell's time and that benefit as was  presented to the member not to the board of education or here s was never contacted by the employer discusses retirement pay service credits or as benefits nor did we provid that stock will fail for a number of different reasons benefit estimate was just what it says is benefit us retirement some three years prior to the time of time no representations broad and substantial to prevent substantial injustices either one of them lies as it were so these are for these reasons we asked for applied their own terminations or reduced the spans pension by the exact amount necessary to get him under the limits so the board of education this case with that spent four hundred thousand dollars to retire him without penalty by fifty nine days prior to determination when he quit work and not a penalty at all clearly the reciprocal act states as its purpose