all right this is the time in the place for the meeting of the board of appeals for the city of holland we're here to consider applications for variances and or special exceptions the sport must try to interpret each application as it relates to the ordinance the sport is not empowered to rezone nor take any action that could be considered rezoning applications need to meet a number of crucial tests in order to be granted those of you who are here and have already answered those questions on your application we're going to be going through them again tonight there is a procedure guide available we ask that you come to the microphone to speak and that you state your name and address for the record we typically hear the applicant first followed by anyone supporting the application and then lastly those in opposition typically will walk through the application and then render a decision while we're deliberating though the public hearing is so that's that's the big stuff if you elect not to stay for all the deliberations and that kind of stuff you can talk to or call city hall tomorrow after eight thirty to find out what happened one thing to know we do have a short board tonight so all decisions need to be unanimous in order to grant the variance or special exception or what have you so typically what we'll do is we'll give the can the opportunity to postpone to a future meeting in the hope that there might be more people on the board that you can convince to see your point of view required maximum of one hundred twenty feet he is also requesting variances to eliminate the twenty five percent window glazing for the front facades of the buildings to not in and two not in style the ten foot sidewalk that is name my name is lynn albert can pass i'm here with helen engineering representing kurt her is also here as well if there's any questions for him as the owner current has recently purchased a piece of property on him forty is the first property inside the city limits coming in from the south side of holland and that particular site is also in the in forty overlay district so there are very specific requirements as to what needs to happen on his site so this site is currently zoned highly commercial as well and he is planning to put we have a gas mean that goes through the property at another strange angle which has been very helpful for us they say there's a there's currently a one hundred foot  easement over that gas main so we're required to keep the buildings outside of the one hundred but easement that goes kind of at a very bad angle for the property and then also way yes there you go thank you so that's where the gas main goes so we need to align our buildings with the gas main and try to still optimize the site in their requirements of the in forty overlay district so  so i guess our first request then is that one of the requirements of the in forty overlay district is that we meet both a minimum and maximum setback for each building on the site so the minimum setback is forty feet from the highway in the maximum is one hundred twenty feet in this case we are able to meet that again thank you dan we're able to meet that minimum setback with no problem we're also required a significant landscaping buffer area and again that's no problem at all but that one hundred twenty foot setback is something we can't mean it from the importer right away because the shape of the property doesn't lend itself to allow construction in the back corner of the property so virtually what we're looking at is because of the odd shape of the property and the adding the gas main through the property we're on able to build in that corner of the property unless we can come in for variance so we're asking for a variance for the met for the maximum setback for two buildings on the proposed site  so that's our first request do you want me to go through them are or how what's the best way to proceed for you hold let's let's get them all right the second or twice make sure i go through them in the right order for you is on the windows i believe all right so all of a nother requirement of the m forty a really district is the city was trying to establish a south gateway to the community and establish feel very specific landscaping and you know look requirements for a silt is along in forty which is which is great as a master plan in this case one of the requirements was that twenty five percent of the face of each building facing them forty  well that between the height of eighteen inches and eight feet twenty five percent of the face of the building is supposed to be covered with windows which again is is a great looking concept but in this case with the self storage facility having windows on the front of the building is more of a detriment than and that help the the standard specifically the ordinance specifically stated that the intent behind the windows was to allow for people inside the buildings to see what was going on outside the buildings just kind of monitor for unlawful activity and that type of thing in this case we're not proposing any occupants in the building it's purely self storage and it's intended to be a gated facility with video video monitoring so we're covering the safety aspect gating the facility and providing that he'll monitory so again in this case would feel that adding windows will cause more harm than benefit because it will put people's belongings at risk ok so that's the second one and then the very last of the requirements that we are working around is again in the end forty overl requirements there's currently a requirement for a ten foot wide sidewalk along the along in forty for all new development there is currently six foot wide sidewalk along the front of this property and it's in good shape and you know can continue in its current condition without any issue we took a look at all the other development that has occurred along the in forty right away in recent years and those all have between five and six wide sidewalks so we looked at that and said well it doesn't make sense to take out an existing sidewalk that's serving the public and replace it with a wider one if it's not being required elsewhere we did follow up at one point we also did the pilot project our company did and they said at but for what it's worth that is where that came up but from everything we can see up and down the corridor no one's required a temple lights i like today so we're requesting relief simply because it's existing and it's in great shape so ok we don't see a reason to replace it question for the full account from the board i have a question when you purchased the property to begin with and develop your concept for self storage units were you aware of these rules and regulations that govern perhaps that particular property already yes so do you have some kind of a backup plan if case let's say the first request about the sub backs if that were denied from this board do you have a backup that was still financially viable for you my name's kirk locker to answer your question i think we knew going in that that the possibility that back corner might be the trickiest so if the project still viable for us if we can't develop that at that point we've all of our locked in cost are there for the other buildings it's a lot easier for us to do the project if we can develop those buildings so it's still it still  calculated risk we were taking but it was our hope that if we developed it fitting all the other comments that we could hopefully work through that one concerning your third request about the sidewalk does the existing extend the entire length of your property does it go right up to the edge or does your bridge to the very corner property stick thank you address that in some way at least let's see here right here that the variance on the window requirements is due to the planned use in the practical nature of having windows on and on occupied start selling solid it's not necessarily characteristic of the pride of the property but  dan what's the trigger if we've got an operable sidewalk running across here was the trigger to change that from six feet ten feet usually is development a lot cases well and restate this there are the requirement for sidewalks in the city is six feet wide right except this except here that says ten so presumably we've got a legal non conforming use right now that's correct ok so then what usually development requires sidewalks be upgraded to unless there's a variance granted by the by the city manager's office normally they have to upgrade their sidewalks at the point of development if you had for example if you were missing side if you're missing it because you can write same argument for there's no sidewalk here it's an existing condition but once you go to develop it then that kicks in the sidewalk  ok the sidewalks are in the city right away so it it we just that want and zoning but it's really not our territory  locations we talked about unique circumstances and physical conditions the next question we need to address is the need for the variance not self created by the up your previous owners if you again we just said the awkward shape of the property and the location of the gas main it basically renders a corner of that property i usually usable if we do i mean we could shape the we can lay the buildings out in a different way but doing that would complicate fire protection and other services for the building and so we look we look at a number of options this is truly the best layout for a very odd shaped piece of property with unique con i believe so i mean is this is it to allow those two buildings and it doesn't do harm to anyone else it allows for the full use of the property you know we've we've had a couple of surprise requirements and every every which is the side that is facing and forty which would require be required of windows please consider it ok all right and i guess one other thing to know we're required to have a three foot tall ians gave along the whole front of the property with the significant amount of landscaping as well in front of the buildings it's not going to be that visible in the road by the time you get done with that bourbon that landscaping and everything else so that's part of our reasoning for saying you know we love the idea of windows and in the right environment but in this case the windows will be hit in and then also further detriment to the property moving onto the sidewalk unique circumstances there anything beyond that it's already got a sidewalk  yeah mostly that it already has a sidewalk in place that's in great shape  want to speak in opposition but don't get somebody come up here for or against neither neither is ok your name sir tom lehman fourteen three just looking at this and i'm not familiar with the project but in the window variance and they were talking about a gate i don't see where the gate is on this thing and i wondered is your office facility and will the window variance apply to that if there is an office that's attached to questions future board member and reasonably burdensome to comply with the with the current zoning ok i'll support so i got a motion by but ard support by davis do we have what we need from his his motion statement if you want formal findings of fact the main arguments the intent was met by other means want to make a motion to deny also i agree with what you're saying but the variance or the zoning district says that for those you know the code says that you have to have these do i agree with that in this particular situation no we cannot rezone this this district in and change that requirement so i don't believe there's anything unique in the property i don't i think it's a some discussion so which sides of the building faced some forty that neat windows well i'd like to point out something that this is not how the property has to be built developed it doesn't have to be storage built right right it could be anything could be anything if the applicant has chosen to maximize the use of this property in this way right so i don't think that you know we can say that just because there's not  that faces directly towards the street that it's a unit or going to leave that oh ok that's fine dan dan it just asked that during the discussion we just try to make clarity if they come to our office with plans with and they say well we've got to put windows now because the zoning board wanted us to or your nets wanted us to have the ordinance ok which walls are we talking about being the ones that all right so we don't have a motion but i'll support support by  i think i've said everything i thought ok vince do you have what you need to give you three on that one nothing unique for the property self inflicted and not and burn some really prevent the owner from using the property for its permitted use or is it unreasonably birds and i'm saying that they could use the property with the windows and i don't think it's a reason everybody else is that this applies to setting precedent for other buildings and as much as i understand where you're coming from but i can't stand presidents going to send a city  wrong path so thank you  it's not it you know it's i'd like to say that it's it's there's nothing unique in the property that is preventing you from doing a template site there's nothing breakfast in a variance to have eight guest rooms where maximum is four in addition to the owner unit thirty nine dash one hundred ninety thirty thirty nine dash one ninety four thirty nine dash to eighty two i also have a letter i need to read that we received from a tom olson eighty one west fourteenth street he says we got a note in the mail that our back door neighbor is looking for a variance for a b and b with units instead of four plus owner allowance i would be in favor allow of allowing the b and b to be successful b and b s they have to meet a higher standard of curb  appeal then renters do and i think it's a good i think that's good for the neighborhood over the past two years i've watched the owner painting the residence to get ready for his intended use and it looks much nicer than when he began let me know if you want any more neighbor i my name is dave bryson and i would be the managing contractor of the project ok for my daughter katherine and chris my son in law all right so you've got the option i need all four of us tonight i know so a where we can go forward or we can put a pin in it for next month you know what it's in god's hands so we'll just leave it there you're going to go for it ok go forward fair enough so so you want to talk through what you want to do here and why why would you want make sense well let me like it was is the assembler the brains behind the the layout and her name is bobby currently we do set their own property was seven apartment units and we're looking to really create some curb appeal with the house it is over one hundred years old right now and it's in need of some t l c ok so we would like to turn it into a bed and breakfast and our request is that we're only allowed four rooms plus the owners and we have room to make eight in the property in the building we have an attic space is not utilized at all that we would like to use yeah i think we're our state plan we have plenty of parking that we can have for the eight units currently we already have eight spaces and that's without even working reworking some area to create a couple  street and it's it's unique that the house sets in the center of the property of the neighbor to the east his home sits right on the property line so we don't feel that we will be a burden to the neighbors as to or the location of the house net i'm looking for many questions from you guys are so so help help us understand the unique circumstances or physical conditions on the property that drive you to eight units as opposed to four well currently it was a rooming house and when it was first think it would be a great upgrade to the neighborhood even even with the apartment situation there are studio units except for one unit which is a one bedroom unit and  i just think the i think the property is actually made for it ok on that topic you're aware that if we go down the route to a bed and breakfasts you're bringing the property closer into compliance and so you by removing the kitchens and all i kind of stuff you wouldn't have the option to go back to you know can you talk to how this variance is not self created here her self created you know that's to make  rooming house what did you make it a rooming house no no no we did not so it was not self created and if they purchased as as rental home as a rental units when  bought it what about the need for aid as opposed to for what aspects of that would be not self created is it viable to to run as a bed and breakfast at four or do you need six seven or eight units to make it go well would we would need more units to make it go currently we got seven units sort of bring a monthly income and you know take it down to four as a bed and breakfast i think could be kind of a wash so we've got capital input into the project would take a lot longer to recoup if we went to four and we have the space we we have slowly have the space and you know getting rid of all the individual kitchens in that home would be just would be what what's an unreasonably burdensome or prevents you from using the house with of kitchens or with four for  this is the minimum that you need to to make a go of this the eight yet who would maximize space the negative impact to the surrounding neighborhood no i don't believe so we would there would be a traffic issue we've got all on site parking we're not requesting any parking on a street so i think we've pretty much self contained you thinking when you purchased the apartment or the building that you would eventually try to get into me here when i come out of that we might be able to hear you but everybody on my partially deaf so i have a hard time hearing you guys anyway but when we purchased the house in two thousand and twelve i really just laid a vision on our heart to be able to we had a dream of being able to have a bed and breakfast and we saw the house and god open the doors for us to be able to get it during that time and we saw the potential the size the space and we knew the t l c it needed and knowing that we've progressed slowly over the last six years just learning how to become landlords and and all of that but through that we've just really had a stronger desire to be able to use it as the b and b so when we purchased the house it was our strong vision for the future financially viable than using doesn't permit for long term yes because it opens up so many other opportunities for us right now we have three small children but in the future as they move out to can become my husband and i were together thing that we do that we're very both much hospitable we love being with people we love working with people and on top of that mean able to use this opportunity to do that and so yeah and economically to be able to utilise the entire place because the amount of investment that we'll have to put into it to get it the t that it needs for units just doesn't cut it even for the long term of things for the amount being in historical district and knowing the requirements of that that we're going to have to meet and other things that we're going to have to go through with that as well it just makes the most sense to be able to utilize every bit of space that is totally capable of what we see within the house through that so are there are maintenance standards for all of the buildings in this area and are you planning to do maintenance to the house that that even if you don't convert it to a bed and breakfast  absolutely and we just at a deep leaving as a rental we're working at it bits and pieces financially because it's not something that we're getting the return on to be able to have the financial ability to be able to dump that amount of money into that it really desire city and really needs in our certain financial situation but being able to make that transition from the rent told to the b and b knowing that we will be taking that leap with the financial part and knowing where we will be able to stand with those finances without running as a backup bed and breakfast will be say well anything else you want to say otherwise there's anything anyone else want to speak in favor with my wife michelle we actually live across the street of this house at seventy one west thirteenth street and we've watched kristen catherine take care of the property and we really see that it would be a benefit to the neighborhood to have a b and b there and two it will increase the property values for us and so it's a it's a highly desirable area it's very close to downtown and i really think it's going to have a high and effect on our neighborhood ok thank you down one minute fourteenth street not position but a question in the application it says that they are proposing alterations have not been approved yet by the historic district commission and there is no certificate of appropriateness if this is approved as it still it would be conditional on that yeah yeah we can overrule the historic district anyone else to speak in favor anybody speak in opposition coming from south haven where there are a lot of rentals so we're concerned from that selectors have not necessarily an option just have a lot of questions on how that would impact our neighborhood  you see in the rental situation is not been positive at all that sorrow i'm just wondering just how that's going to be addressed and if or would be acceptable i understand from an economic standpoint that they want to have eight but then i guess just questions to like i don't know if it's my place to ask but like you said you have small children like so would you as be on site so i says yeah so you know the requirement of a bed and breakfast the owner's on site ok it's all but a bed and breakfast is i'm not going to use the wrong word here indians could correct me but i want to say like an excess reuse or something like that it's still a residence right and so he needs to be o past stuff and so that's not the case with apartments right and so they've got seven apartments that they can live wherever they want and that's  from from where you're certain yeah it's seven people there yeah that's in a perfect at least a month so seven people or seven dwellings right at least a month compared to right but owner occupied and no longer than twenty one days correct yeah yeah this one actually because if i'll bet a breakfast actually becomes more or less  well i mean just from our standpoint we are and like a beach community and sunset shore i don't know if you guys have followed any of our like ours had sat like i don't know like up and down the lake shore they had looked at our i'm just concerned about just yeah i guess that not an opposition necessarily just came just to kind of find out fair enough i think i thank you and you want us to speak us again for the record my name's contract the real live across the street and our house is actually a two family and it was a two family pride here and we have other rental properties within the city of holland and i honestly believe that her concerns would be addressed by them turn it into a bed and breakfast because the upkeep don't need to maintain in order to attract people renting from them i think it's going to upgrade the house and the community and the neighborhoods quite substantial so that really i think will be a plus for the area so and i know these folks do a great job with our rentals keeping us on top of things but once it's owner occupied all right thank you much all go ahead and close the public hearing any discussion amongst the board if for some reason the owner walks away from this evening and decides to keep it as a apartment building they can still do that ok you know this until they make that what you think in there yes it is going to take years and one one front of the other i was sort of thinking let's go with the variance you know try and go for the home run because that's why i think the issue of the special exception is probably pretty much a slam dunk the question is going to be how big of a special exception for public variance if the challenge with that is we can only prove it up to four unless we first do a variance to say you can have more than that and so the variance is the higher standard the harder question well i'd like to make a motion that we deny  variance by following the rules and regulations that we are given in this particular case i do not think that they meet the standards that we've been given to approve it and therefore i think difficulty i think that the need for the variance is self created by the applicant meaning they could continue with meaning they can continue with its current use and the str adherence to the requirements they don't need to find all right i don't have to find all they don't want reasonable different the owner from using his property for permitted use i'll just pick off the top three i think be not a reason we burdensome again because we can use it as it's presently  three people so we had a motion to deny as opposed to a motion to approve and so in order to make any motion pass we need for we had three three to deny  assuming that we went the other way around and had a motion to approve we have one with the potential for two more of the members that are here which would still be short of what it needs to go i find that there are unique circumstances with the property in that it is quite a large lot with an enormous house sitting on it  feel that the need for the variance is not self created in that the usage of the building to how many people is already there in the number of apartments that are permitted within a strict adherence being unreasonably burdensome i find that it's it would be burdensome to to expect this to go as it is i feel that the variance would be minimal to to do substantial justice to the owner in this and that for the last case i feel that this this variance would bring the property more in compliance and in harmony with the intent of the neighborhood so i i feel that it would be a net improvement to to the neighborhood from where it sits today procedurally just make make sure there was a second on that before we can actually go on hughes yes but we still didn't get four so we still feel like i was able to convince one of one of three all right  is well it's done i would recommend just like we did unless people this would be so much easier to prove if we had some thing in the ordinance that would address larger properties like yours is a rather unique properties within the city i would recommend that you bring this to planning commission and if there were some sort of a mechanism within the ordinance wherein we could say if it's x number of square feet or greater it can  under the certain circumstances that would be something that would be easier to control right right now that the limit across the city whether you've got a thousand square foot house or a hundred thousand square foot house they could postpone that part two of if they want to more or full board or if they're going to end up talking when commission so how would you like to proceed would you like this to to go  changed ok i understand it up to four so if we go to the planning commission that doesn't matter either way then because we won't do it if we can only get four ok it just doesn't economically make sense for us so i would suggest that they withdraw all then this application because right now limits for and that's all you'd be getting so with withdrawal it doesn't or postpone it i mean if we want to just leave it on the tape when we table it because then when if they do change the ordinance we would they would substantially different proposal six but never makes sense you know there's no time limit if you come back with the same proposal in the rules don't change can't come back until about six months then but that's d support by davis all in favor say aye aye aye anybody opposed all right it's tabled indefinitely not sure i can do that but we just  motion by bedard second by davis all in favor say good bye