welcome to today's hearing i specially welcome our distinguished witnesses in the forward to their testimony today the subcommittee plans to examine the long term master plan for the capit complex and the efforts of the architect of the capitol and other officials who must work as partners to account for the rapidly changing needs and concerns of the entire complex including the challenges posed by transportation security energy greening the new capitol visitor center and the mounting and for structure backlog an urgent need of attention the extraordinary centerpiece of the u s capitol whose construction began in seventeen ninety three has a long and storied history as documented in our subcommittee hearing on september twenty fifth two thousand and seven to authorize the naming of the of emancipation hall and the c d c workers who built the capitol included in slave lax and indentured servants a striking new visitor center which i visited again yesterday is expected to open later this year however this hearing is not about the centerpiece capitol and the c on today we are examining the entire campus and all the components that comprise today's capitol although the senate and the house had office buildings beginning in the early twentieth century the capitol complex so called is a faily recent event to the capitol became a complex only beginning in the 's during the great depression when the federal government build most of its structures here and on pennsylvania and on independence excuse me and constitution avenues construction of the lion's share of the capital's office buildings began with the but tannic gardens in one nine hundred thirty three the rest of the complex was only gradually added in the one nine hundred sixty s and the one nine hundred eighty s ending with the thurgood marshall judicial building near union hundred two today the capitol complex consists of the house and senate office buildings the supreme court of the library of congress the botanical gardens the capitol power plant and other buildings extensions and decisions and renovations the capitol complex is one prize of a sixteen point five million square feet in stretches over four hundred fifty acres however neither the best known historic buildings nor the newer structures constitute the only or even the primary focus of today's hearing much of the three point two billion dollars needed over the next five years would go to parts of the complex that most desperately need that are most desperately in need of support but there's a public never sees such as firefighter telephones and the notorious house tunnels that have adversely affected the health of workers in the capital time and again this subcommittee has found that asset management and maintenance is just as important as the time karens buns used to do new construction at the service just as much attention of particularly deep concern to the subcommittee is the an attention to the deteriorated infrastructure and energy plants that support the vital buildings the absence of long range planning using a master plan until mandated in two thousand and one controversy concerning whether the transportation plan will accommodate millions of additional visitors drawn by the new c v c need your closures of necessary thorough thayer's primitive security screening that keeps constituents of members of the house and senate and other visitors lined up in the cold and the heat awaiting waiting to go through old fashioned magnetometers a capital footprint complete with a coal based power plant that made congress appear oblivious of the environmental implications until last year when speaker nancy pelosi began her greening of the capital initiative today we take the first hard look at long term plans to maintain the beauty and majesty of the united states capitol complex with the completion of a new five hundred eighty thousand square foot capital of the her center now is the time for the subcommittee to look closely at the entire complex of which the c b c site is only one part so that the subcommittee and the transportation infrastructure committee can draw upon its long collective expertise in construction management and long term capital asset planning to ensure the integrity and beauty of the u capitol complex tellingly it was the senate appropriations committee that first required a capitol complex master plan seven years ago and the house and senate appropriations committees annually give the oversight necessary to approve the yearly appropriations for the capitol complex however only this subcommittee and our full committee are equipped to do the and continuing oversight that a growing capital requires this oversight lapsed for years until we resumed oversight last year with three hearings that included two by this subcommittee a hearing on the c b c including transportation and security and another on the naming of emancipation hall as well as testimony before the full committee by the architect of the capitol during climate change and energy independence hearings the full committee and the subcommittee have a special interest in the energy and conservation issues raised by expanding the capital complex it will be particularly important to examine the energy efficiency efforts contemplated by the capitol complex in the most recent energy bill p l one ten dash one forty the architect is directed to examine the feasibility of placing total take roofs on the rayburn and hot house office buildings in addition to an authorization to build and he eighty five fueling and to the greatest extent practical practicable to implement greening and conservation measures to the operations of the capitol we are interested in how the plans to prepare and carry out these directives as well as any other initiatives that the architect and his partners are contemplating for planning my personal interest in devotion to the capitol complex is of course deep seated not only because i represent the district of columbia but specially in my role as chair of our subcommittee with your over the capital program of the architect of the capitol i am also delighted to live on capitol hill and to count the capitol and its campuses my neighbor my capitol hill neighbors and i expect the architect of the capit and our partners to continue to be a good neighbor we look forward very much to learning from today's witnesses we thank the architect the capitol police chief achieve administrative officer and other partners within the you've undertaken has been needed for some time the right approach in this important step to ensuring that our capital facilities our capital facilities are here for generations to come where we're stewards of these great buildings we're also stewards of the taxpayers money and it's imperative we have a master plan that funds the most critical and cost effective projects first without this approach to long term planning capitol facilities will experience system failures building closures and cost more money in the long run is clear from the architects budget the capitol complex is facing a looming looming crisis this is one of the first times the architects budget is based on a needs assessment of the syllabus rather than an estimate of what will be were see through the appropriations process this assessment shows the facility requirements and new mandates far exceed available funding the architect has reported a six hundred million dollars backlog in deferred maintenance projects to fix systems that are there are already broken in addition there's an eight hundred million dollar kemper renewal projects to fix systems that are predicted to fail in the near future we face this crisis because of the absence of a clear vision of the long range capital requirements and priorities for the capitol complex instead facilities projects and their associated funding have changed dramatically from year to year additionally too often we have rushed from crisis to crisis which has resulted in short term short sighted decisions with the most expensive outcome is no way to run a large infrastructure program the utility tunnel project currently underway is a prime example of this instead of upgrading these tunnels in a reasonable timeframe we now have to drop other projects and spend three hundred million just to repair these tunnels and compliance with the settlement agreement is important to me that we end up getting the most for the taxpayers dollars while the capitol complex master plan is an important step forward i'm concerned the project process may not fund the most critical cost effective projects first instead the process appears put energy projects for deferred maintenance and renewal projects regardless of whether they are cost effective once more i'd like to commend our efforts on holding this meeting and i did request some time ago that the as one of my priorities that our committee and the subcommittee in particular will jurisdiction conduct this type of form and hearing  capitol building itself one of the most historic structures in the united states and recognizable symbols of edifice of liberty in our our system of government  jurisdiction in adopting a plan and i think what we're doing here and whether it's been done here is a step in the right direction unfortunately part of the problem in the past has not only been  one of authorization of projects but also of funding projects and that's been done on a helter skelter basis and sort of the biggest project or the most critical project at the time gets the most funding probably i'm as guilty as anyone having advocated the capitol visitor center which i saw as a need prior to that i worked extensively on some of the retrofitting of the capitol to make it easy a compliant for those americans and other visitors with disabilities to come to this complex to meet with their representatives and didn't have access to ordinary citizens were guaranteed outside the purview of the capitol complex in the legislative arena so we've made some good progress i think this  setting forth a plan will be will be excellent will have done our job and then hopefully these projects spend can be appropriated on a prioritized basis and i think ranking members also said that that prioritization process the got to take a very serious look at that some life health safety things just can't wait the three point two billion dollars over five years is just sort of fix it money that doesn't take care of i'm told problems massive renovation projects one for example like cannon building i'm told now the price tag may reach a half a billion dollars to renovate that to that complex that's not included in the three point two billion dollars so we're going to face some physical challenges some prioritization challenges you can't do everything and we don't have unlimited amount of money now one of the let me just say one of  capital without question history will see him in that light and others who work with him to bring forth a magnificent chairman said she was down yesterday the american people can be proud absolutely proud of that complex i know it's cost more but enough with the order to start out by saying you're going to build a two thousand square foot house and you end up with a five thousand square foot house it costs more if you say that you're going to change the plans after you've already designed the initial plans for that to thousands of square foot house and you're going to have center and we also had dramatic increases in costs that all of which get to the point that i think we got an excellent deal for that the tax payer a magnificent structure and most people don't know it but we actually raised about half of what the original cost of the building was projected to be through private donations most people don't have a clue because most of more not involved in that process in fact i had the opportunity to host the last fundraiser for the private money for the capitol visitor center on the evening of september tenth two thousand  mega project of the capitol complex the capitol building itself becoming very concerned about i have to say first i think the republicans did not do adequate job and being good stewar of some of the spaces although there were confinements in the space and i think our democrat new democrat new majority is repeating the same mistake first of all i'm going to ask through letter today show join me or the ranking member or welcome to have an inventory of the historic rooms in the united states capitol building and i would like to have either to me or to the kid miti that information provided hopefully in this record a list of those buildings and then a list of rooms that have the potential for being used for public access as opposed to individual leader or individual members utilization in the capitol is way transition to the visitor's center there is some space in that complex as we have taken over spaces in some of the h c areas we need to be looking at what can be opened not closed to the public i give you two examples where actually we actually have diminished with the construction of the visitor's center e f one hundred no longer exists so we've lost that public space a room that was given to  we can't do a lot about the senate but i'm going to ask for that inventory be provided and then i want to use that as the template so that we could plan the opening of more spaces in the kids and the capital for  public in general use by by members of as opposed to squirreling away the spaces that the public continues to be deprived access to so thank you so much again requirements will be changed by the renovations yes we are always scrambling for public access rooms and i do think that we need to look at the whole complex in that way again  be afforded more space i was pleased to see that there will be some additional space in the c z sea but again how does that how does that really figure into our needs if i can ask the ranking member when he asked for a quote inventory of the historic rooms by that what do you mean an inventory of within the capitol building itself the core of the capitol building we have historic  rooms and spaces for example i don't want to get into the physician's office but across from the physician's office i give you i gave the example of the space that was  afforded to mr hastert now as he left and i walked down the hall and now it's a press office that's a good or just room that should be made available as one of the rooms that has the potential to be made available to the public where we have the sergeant at arms in a location i don't know where held finally end up that but if you look at the house side there are only a handful of rooms that can be used for public meetings or for access the senate of course is a smaller body has many more rooms but as we make this transition let's inventory those rooms that the architect can say yes this is a historic part of the capitol this is a room that could be restored to its and many of them are absolutely gorgeous fireplaces vaulted ceilings some paintings and they're they've been scouted with by whoever whether it was republicans or now democrats we have an inventory of those rooms in the historic capitol itself i don't want to detract from the purpose of today's hearing which is to look at the mega the planning for the whole complex but one of the most important structures in the nation in the world is that historic building and again the space that's available for even for members to use for the public for public meetings is as has diminished and continues to shrink so if we could open some of that up and again by inventory we can see what's available what might be conducive and also looking at the spaces we have within the visitor's center or in some of the places that have been closed off or constructions where we will be moving other activities back i'll be glad to well thank you very much mel thank you very much mr michael i do want to note that the sorts of space here has a lot to do with the fact that there's no place to go and i heard some really crazy schemes about building new office space or having office space in the garage of the rayburn forget about it we're going to have to learn to live mostly in this very tight city called the nation's capital by yes i'm making new use of old spaces but we're not and we're not about i don't know where you would build a new office space sorry last last space or that was taken by the nationals baseball team  the full chairman of the committee has been kind enough to join us and he has had a long term interest and concern about the subject matter of today's hearing and i'd like to ask i keen professional interest in the national visitor center and all the activities of responsibilities of the office of the architect of the capitol i just feel fortunate to be here this morning frankly i was well know i left i left a little townhouse in plenty of time to get here well in advance of the hearing and there was a three car accident just ahead of me on the entrance to the  barton parkway and and for rescue vehicles and another one headed toward it and i just felt fortunate to not have been there three minutes earlier i'd have been probably in that mess and so i took an also feeling additionally blessed to be here this morning three weeks ago i was on the operating table at the mayo clinic getting a new hip installed in my right hip and today i'm walking without  life span both cycling and walking well get good genes do no harm thank your parents and thank the lord  reported that became part of the energy security and climate change act you know have a complex capitol complex master plan i think it's the first time i've had a credible one since george  white was architect of the capitol and maybe even before him i remember serving on staff at the time and my my predecessor john bartunek over there in the corner portrait hangs in this committee room was frustrated  that that that this extraordinary really precious story structure did not have a comprehensive overall master plan congress had no way of measuring progress assessing the needs  extraordinary structure we now have george white develop such a plan his was the first to propose a visitor center underground much like what we have today but not nearly so elaborate as the one that is now in place we also have as as result of the energy legislation  a very specific set of requirements for the arctic to the capital and a report on the status of each of the several items which are very well laid out in the in the briefing document here and with mr mike our full committee ranking member to develop and jointly and long term authorization bill that is a multi year authorization bill for the architect of the layouts and require of the arctic to the capital showing of administrative cost savings i think a multi year authorization bill with specific goals specific benchmarks measurements dollar amounts that we can evaluate periodic lee will be a great man of that to the office of the architect of the capitol to this committee and and indeed to the  congress and to the to the public will come here to visit this national and international treasure we need a complete picture of what needs to be done and how much it will cost in that authorization we could include the request of the gentleman from florida mica for and inventory of facilities in the capital we might get a lot of push back i would say the gentleman from our colleagues on the other side of the hill there are innumerable hideaways that are unlisted it's it's like unlisted phone numbers in a book you know they're not there before i thought i knew this place pretty well so i think it to be useful to have a inventory of rooms and who has control it's always a murky business of who has control over those facilities to explore the issues laid out in the section the various sections of the energy independence bill and particularly i want to see us proceed capital should be the leader in the greening of america we're going to preach to others and we ought to take care of our own house and the installation of meters and i'll just tell  one little anecdote it was nineteen seventy five on the senate floor there was a vigorous debate about energy independence thermometer held it up and said look at the temperature here it's seventy two we don't need to have seventy two degrees on the floor of the senate we could be saving energy we just turned the thermostat down so the next day the senators all gathered for their meeting and someone pulled out of their mom water and it said sixty eight the reporter asked the engineer for the office of the capitol what did he do he said how we can't change anything we just we just open the windows a little bit open the vents and let some outside cold area and that's not good enough better we need better  metrics than that and the installation of a metering system as the architect is doing in pursuance of this legislation will get us around such embarrassments frankly and lapses of good stewardship stephen ayres the acting architect of the capitol then from terry rouse has it rouse the c e o of the visitors center and then from daniel bier the chief administrative officer of the house of representatives want to proceed missed a years madam chair and members of the committee thank you for inviting me here today to discuss the a o c's capitol complex master plan and to update you on the progress of the capitol visitor center and our energy conservation efforts i'd like to begin with a brief overview of the c d c project as you know we have a great team of people working diligently behind the scenes not only to build the capitol visitor center but to ensure a safe memorable and educational visitor experience when it opens the comprehensive fire alarm and light safety testing continues to be performed as planned overall we remain pleased with the progress being made are working to complete the punch list items such as mill work wall stone floor stone plasterwork carpeting and door hardware among other finishes we believe we're on schedule to receive a temporary certificate of occupancy on july thirty first two thousand and eight as planned then we'll have the facility available to open in november two thousand and eight as currently scheduled with the addition of the c b c and several facilities are to our jurisdiction over the past several years a s c is now responsible for some sixteen point five million square feet of buildings and nearly four hundred fifty acres of land in recent years the number and magnitude of our projects is also greatly increases this means that there are many potential projects that call for our attention to ensure that these buildings continue to effectively serve member of congress this includes ensuring that fire and life safety deficiencies are corrected and that significant resources are devoted to protecting the people who work in and visit the capitol complex each day in order to prioritize coordinate and effectively complete the many current and future projects we need to accomplish to meet the future needs of congress a comprehensive capitol complex master plan must be in place as a way to bring the future into the present the first step in that planning process was to establish a baseline by which to measure and compare building conditions plan and evaluate funding requirements and determine priorities we had independent experts complete facility condition assessments on most of our buildings here in the capitol complex these condition assessments validated a backlog of more than six hundred million dollars and deferred maintenance and eight hundred million dollars in capital renewal projects with nine hundred million of this one point four billion being immediate or high priority as the s c continues to be unable to fund deferred maintenance capital renewal and new projects and initiatives this bow wave of unfunded requirements continues to grow ultimately the capitol complex master plan will establish a framework that will help the congress to prioritize the maintenance renovation and construction the facilities over the next five ten and twenty years while allowing for prudent budgeting of costs necessary for upkeep and construction c has been gate been engaged in energy savings activities since the energy crisis in the one nine hundred seventy s most recently we've demonstrated our commitment to energy conservation by complying with the requirements of the r t policy of two thousand and five under the act the air c was required to reduce the amount of energy consumed per square foot in the capitol complex in two thousand and six by two percent as compared to a two thousand and three baseline and i'm pleased to report that we exceeded the goal of two percent by reducing energy consumption six and a half percent in two thousand and six we exceeded this go through a variety of projects  pilot programs including installing modern energy efficient lighting and comfort control systems and replacing conventional incandescent light bulbs with cum compact fluorescent lamps campus why we negotiated a peace ability study to replace the rayburn roof with a building integrated photo but take roofing system where vegetated roof for decreased storm water runoff and improved insulation as well we're preparing to install in the e eighty five gasoline dispensing station to ensure that our efforts save energy and taxpayer dollars as well as that then a fine new energy conservation opportunities we're conducting energy audit on our facilities on a five year hundred clean air act amendments and that permit is in ministered through the district of columbia's department of health care air quality vision the plant has a complex emissions monitoring system in place and i required to certify the emissions monitoring systems quarterly with a certification performed by an independent third party testing firm on an annual basis madam chair we greatly appreciate the subcommittee support and the investor congress has made in our facilities and infrastructure over the past several years as we continue to make the capitol complex safer and more energy efficient as these buildings age they w require significant repairs renovations and upgrades and this will require a significant investment it will see is committed to being good stewards of the capitol complex our goal is to work with the congress to create a clear plan by which we prioritize our projects and the future needs of the capital complex with such a master plan employed place we can then begin reducing this backlog of deferred maintenance and capital renewal work that has been identified and validated through these independent condition assessments once again thank you for this opportunity to discuss these issues with you today and i'd be happy to answer any questions you may have thank you very much mr ayres mouse good morning madam chairman members of the committee i'm pleased to be here today to update you on the progress we have made stand up the office of visitor services for the capitol visitor are working to ensure that the u s capitol is welcome me and an educational environment that will inform involved and inspire everyone who visits tourists and residents alike we predict that the visitors center will become an exciting new destination the programs and events are designed to entertain and to inspire multigenerational audiences the programming will select the important impact that the constitution congress and more than two hundred years of laws have made in the shaping of the fabric of daily life in the united states exciting experiences await our visitors a moving thirteen minute orientation feel that will begin at the beginning capital tour an exhibition that includes a well sure write a selection of documents an artifact as well as us specially designed touchable model of the capitol dome that will allow visitors to have an intimate view of this iconic structure the capitol visitor center was designed to incorporate as many green features as possible in fact the capitol grounds will be greener when our landscaping is completed this summer in the six months since i arrived in washington i've been building upon the operation framework that was developed by the  congressional leadership and the c b c oversight committees my first priority was to create a hiring plan and recruited team of experienced professionals we are holding a job fair this month to hire more than distance who will be our first the public i'm committed to hiring a diverse and professional sas so i have directed our human resources office to reach out to members of congressional caucus including the congressional black caucus the congressional asian pacific american caucus congressional historic spanish caucus and congressional native american caucus to inform potential candidates of job opportunities with the visitors that are on another front we're in the process of developing the necessary tools to assist the public in planning a trip to the capital to so will also help them learn more about congress the legislative process and the history of the capitol building itself our new visitor center website will be the key to our comprehensive public educational program to help people arrange a visit to the capital and to their members offices and to begin their study of how congress works millions of visitors including local residents will visit the c b c in its first year of operation and the website will help manage expectations by preparing the public with clear information about the visitor center from how to get to be a minute and educational opportunities that awaits them we've been working with our internal local and regional partners on every aspect of the capital center related logistics including transportation to and from the visitors center specifically we've been facilitating meetings between the u s capitol police and the district department transportation to discuss transit options for the visitors visitors will arrive at our doors using a range of transit modes from walking and biking to traveling with a commercial tour company want to make the visitors center  easily accessible to everyone so we will continue to work through transportation in order to meet the needs of our residents the capitol police and our tourist business community we especially want to keep our capitol hill neighbors informed of our efforts at the visitor center as any changes in pedestrian or particular traffic will affect them on another front we have been working with our oversight committees on the capitol to our action plan to ensure a positive experience included in th plan is the institution of the new program the congressional store training program or chip chip training for congressional staff who give tours to ensure they have accurate information to conduct constituent tours of the capitol building behalf of speaker pelosi green the capitol initiative the initiative which was approved in two thousand june of two thousand and seven has a stated purpose of making the house of representatives carbon neutral in its operations by december of two thousand eight we will offset the ninety one thousand metric tons of greenhouse passes the house generates by first purchasing only electric power from renewable sources primarily wind energy to meet our needs this will reduce the house carbon footprint by will reduce our carbon footprint by another ten thousand metric tons and finally the house purchase offset credits from the chicago climate exchange for the remaining twenty four thousand metric tons of greenhouse gases to ensure carbon neutral operations  by the deadline set up by the speaker the speaker has also directors to further reduce our carbon footprint by making energy cutting energy consumption reducing energy consumption in the house by fifty percent over the next ten years and as you heard the architect the acting architect of capital the i o c has reduced its energy consumption by six and a half percent in two thousand and six in order to meet her directives we have launched a number of important programs first says now has a green suit food service operations and facilities all of the house restaurants cafeterias and catering facilities have taken steps to green their processes install more energy efficient equipment and use recycled materials for counters and food stations more important the food waste from all house facilities is now composted an onsite food pulp or reduces the weight of the waste from our food service operation by as much as twenty five percent we are sending the output from the pulp or to the department of agriculture's beltsville research station and a commercial compost facility in crofton maryland in february for example we diverted between thirty five the eight and forty five tons of waste from landfills and sent eleven point three tons to be composted the house now sells only one hundred percent post consumer waste recycled paper and the house currently uses about seventy million sheets of paper a year by selling only recycled paper we will save significantly on energy and water use  reduce greenhouse gas emissions as outlined in my testimony the house through the i o c is in the process of revamping its house paper recycling program and we are now picking up compostable waste from all offices the architect of the capitol as steven mentioned has received approval for installation of new and improved electricity meters in all house office buildings and this will improve our management of electricity seven thousand compact fluorescent light bulbs have been already been installed in house offices and we are working to replace the remaining incandescent bulbs with improved c f elves which have a payback of less than five months our computer services are in the process of being consolidated at fewer locations to diminish energy consumption by changing operating procedures and installing new technology we are we have set a goal of reducing our energy consumption in our computer centers by forty percent all of the houses eighty four vending machines have been replaced with energy efficient machines a bike sharing program known as wheels for wellness has been will be launched in may for employees using hous house on bikes to reduce carbon emissions and also provide an exercise option for our employees a car sharing program contracted out to zip cars is already in place allowing members and staff to rent hybrid cars on an hourly basis from the house parking garage other transportation improvements have been put in place other transportation improvements first employees taking public transportation will now use smart cards and metro benefits will be automatically loaded up on to cards electronically each month thus eliminating the need for a paper card and the use of the department of transportation to hand them out the metro benefits program will be centrally funded  and administered starting in fiscal year two thousand and nine instead of managed by each office thus we hope increasing participation program and providing some additional assistance to members  truck for small package deliveries and we are working with manufacturers to purchase a hybrid diesel trucks for larger capacity needs the capitol dome will be real it with energy efficient lighting in the next six months  conventional lights illuminating the outside of the structure are in fact prime examples of somewhat outdated and and an economical technology chairwoman norton i want to thank you for providing us with this opportunity we believe that the green the capitol initiative is proud about some and more enormous changes in the way we do business in a short period of time we are working we are doing this in your district and would be happy to work with you and mary fanny to put the lessons we have learned into the district of columbia schools or work with other local institutions again thank you thank you very much and this subcommittee we're going to be pursuing a set of hearings on greening washington because of committee has diversity action over leasing and building of federal buildings and and this is where the footprint of the federal government is more than half of still it is located here so it seems to me that that what you have just said  linking what the district which already has some very progressive legislation is none would make a great deal of sense mr ayres and i too to ask you about your own  capital improvement program as i understand it essentially that would simply be a list there's been some interest on the  committee about how to address this backlog you have a five year capital improvement plan which could be the basis for a real capital program  what have you any ideas about how capital program that might be legislated might work yes ma'am certainly i think that that would be helpful to alleviate the backlog but i think it's important to look at the entire picture and i think there's three important elements one we first we have to eliminate the backlog secondly looking forward we have to prevent that backlog from recurring which is an ongoing reinvestment in facilities that we really haven't made in my estimation and then thirdly there are a variety of projects and needs from the congress that are gathered in the capitol complex master plan that will ultimately need to be funded as well so i think those three pieces if they're addressed in some form of legislation authorizing them would be very helpful to that process well how you proceed now without such legislation i mean how do you prioritize what are you i agree with you that this is a long time planning  large congress hasn't done that yet i'm very interested in in proceeding along those lines meanwhile you've got to proceed and you've been proceeding in some form or fashion and you give us some idea of what your priorities have been and how you have arrived at well certainly i think our priorities reflect the congress priorities and that's the way it should be and we use three factors to prioritize projects and that is  first the importance of a project and we will evaluate every project that comes to us on a variety of pre established criteria like energy conservation fire and life safety security economics historic preservation among others and will give each project an independent school or will then rank each project by its classification deferred maintenance capital renewal capital improvement or capital construction and any project that of deferred maintenance is a higher priority than capital construction meaning you take care of what you have before you build new and then lastly as our independent consultants have reviewed all of our facilities and developed a condition assessment for each each of those projects has been given urgency classification whether it needs to be done immediately whether it's higher density which means the next two to four years or medium or low so we take all three of these factors then and sort of a composite rating guide and ultimately that will shake out a list from one to three hundred jack's in priority order for us well i just think your answer is a virtual description of the contemplate such legislation the mr baird you indicated that the house had purchased it first so that you put out front for small package deliveries and that you're working with manufacturers to purchase hybrid diesel trucks  as we i mean how many bagels do we own we own a large stable of the three of vehicles here in the house of representatives no forty vehicles in the fleet split between the chief administrative officer has  think i have approximately ten vehicles the clerk has a number and then we have a number of security vehicles and more than the ranking member speaker has a vehicle the people like that have the added leadership yes  what's the turnover on those vehicles how long do they last before they are over with well security vehicles are turned over a lot on a lot faster basis usually two to four years  the trucks that i was describing which we use for hauling furniture and moving large objects as well as for computers and small supplies we usually keep we usually have an eight to ten year life span for those trucks is there any reason why the house should ever purchase another vehicle except one that's alternatively feels like if we have if you had to turn over five vehicles and whatever it is you've been doing until now i can't think of a reason why you wouldn't i can't think of a reason i mean the speaker has made it eminently clear to everybody who works in the house of representatives what her view is on the subject and  takes their direction and through this the police board but i notice that they just did purchase a electric vehicle but they have police cars and you would have to ask the chief who i think will be testifying later no impressive but may i say sir that this committee will be looking to see whether or not your office ever purchases another cas the eccles that it seems to me is the small fleet is one of the ways in which we ought to the where the cafeteria will be huge how are you tie it into the recycling efforts of the capital how is it tied together do you have a separate recycling after do you do recycling how will you manage the the amount of the recyclables that will come out of the mat not to mention fresh garbage and the rest that will be generated by new facilit part of the recycling as for the restaurants the restaurant associates built into their contract is recycling of products as well as using utensils which are recyclable a key component of what we're looking at we are course part we will not be allowing food to be taken out of the restaurant area it will be confined to that area so that that's part of our ongoing plan thank you very much mr jones i'm going to move to the ranking member or to the ranking member of the full committee whichever you prefer if that's ok and i thank the chairman and our ranking member to let me go i've got a skewed but this is an important hearing and again i congratulate you on holding in and also for i think helping us stablish a very solid pattern and blueprint from which we can move on getting a better handle just to do sort of the fix it work mysterious is that correct and i was told that did not include the cannon building that is correct in the cannon building we're now probably talking about five capitol building itself does and a historic dome has several hundred million dollars worth of work i think but is that within the framework of the three point two i'm hundred million dollars we estimate at this point if you recall congressman mica that several years ago we began the renovation of the dome of the capitol building and did the  between the inner and outer dome and if you recall sort of that parachute being inside the rotunda that was only phase one of two phases we have to come back and do that second phase which is the x cheerier of the dome and that's certainly one of the whoppers that's not a couple hundred million know probably less than one hundred million ok but certainly a significant project that it's not in that number at the capitol power plant  if collectively the congress decides if we want to install a co generation facility that's probably two hundred fifty three hundred million dollars that's not in that get well planned ok again given the staff and given a figure in the multibillion dollar area where that would take do you recall what the total figure was that was given to me outside the three point two billion the long term capital requirements year ok that's what i thought eleven or twelve billion ok and i'm just trying to clarify what the immediate picture is for the fix it and then the long term and  concerns too about going back to the capitol building the historic capitol and even the house chambers the house chambers is in some serious need of some  life health safety renovations and i've toured myself underneath the floors and seen some of the wiring and things that need to we're very we've been very fortunate because it's sort of been a patchwork of of communications and electrical additions that would give a fire marshal a great deal of heartburn in the private sector  six figure in your testimony you recall what that was at its energy reduction per square foot ok now do you have two thousand seven not yet were required to achieve a four percent reduction in two thousand and seven we were port those numbers then april so this month will we will be reporting that but i do know that we are right at that four percent so there's been a decrease from two thousand  to two thousand and seven correct that's what i had heard one of the big expenses my b and maybe one of the big savings areas might be utility  was to talk about redoing some of the utilities and cogeneration is was one of the consideration right now we're using coal natural gas and also some  that's correct how long are the contracts on the coal i believe we do an annual contract on coal purchases i don't believe we have a long term contract on coal it is not long term i don't believe so weight is long term on natural gas which i think runs through have there been any poses or any requests for proposals for cogeneration based fuel of most done one initial study on simply the feasibility of installing the physical feasibility of installing a co generation facility at the capital power plant and that study validated that it is possible it's in the magnitude of two hundred fifty to three hundred million dollars we've not gone to the level of determining about payback and what kind of fuel mix would be the best scenario there i think that is what that would be something that you could put a request for proposals out and off we're really interested in the greening of probably most of the negative footprint that's put out from the capital stands some of the legislation best example for energy generation with the least negative effect on the environment and i don't think it costs a lot some years ago i did have an energy camp but i can manage look at it when we were looking at building the visitor's center they told me th payback would be so great that they could have actually paid for the visitor's center just if they could keep the same payment and change out the energy production system not i don't know that that would be the case today and also one of the big a huge amounts of money extra money gone into that some of those systems were older or service connectors were old and were not part of the original plan  and we had the collapse of a couple of the other utilities are finding that they were inadequate to support the relocation well finally  i believe congress will set the date we've been working with the leadership in the oversight committees on that we are discussing very actively the test and adjust periods and the things that we'll need to do to make sure that the operation is running affectively as it's handed off to us from the architect's office to begin the stand up of the building and we are very conscious of the many things that will be going on towards the end of the here to make sure that our our opening to the public is  representatives but thank you for your service to thank you thank you mr mica mr ayres i thank you you testified that you exceeded the you who also testified there was testimony about exceeding goals of climate change goals or environmental goals i know you did mr ayres and mr baird well i just been with the speaker on this climate change codell to india it was remarkable and here we are course wanting to see what the indians will do we find that they've done a that just in doing what they can do with and people who eighty percent of the population are in less than two dollars a day a third of the population earning less than one dollar days you know we were not exactly in a position to preach  to the indians and nor did we try but in light of your testimony about exceeding goals mr ayres i believe had goes a two percent he got up to six percent in light of the urgency of climate change would you not recommend that higher goals be set for each of you certainly the goal of i was referring to are the goals that the congress established in the energy legislation in two thousand and five of those goals were two percent per year in the first year i mentioned was two percent we achieved six and a half the second years four percent were on track to achieve that four percent six percent at the end i'm sorry in other words you were spot this six percent was only what you're supposed to achieve at the end of a certain number of years is that what you're saying no matter where we were all federal agencies were required to have a two percent reduction in the first year we achieved a six and a half percent reduction the first year i see which is you know this is a legislative branch and my own sense is that particularly with the initiative that the speaker has taken that the legislative branch leads we have a better chance it seems to me of getting the attention of the executive agencies i'm very impressed that you've exceeded your goal i have to ask you what was the investment necessary in order to reach the climate change  or the energy conservation me goals obviously one of the things we've had to make people understand is that as with everything else you have to invest in order to get a return i'm interested in the payback and how soon the payback comes  so that we can either make the case or improve and and what we do what would you what can you tell me that mr ayres or any of the rest of  i don't have the specific numbers but certainly investments to date are several million dollars three four five six million dollars to achieve those results we've talked about certainly looking forward those investments w have to significantly increase to continue to drive some energy reduction well if i can interject madam chair just add to that the legislation passed  by congress requires a two percent per year but the speaker with respect as the chair of the house office building commission has directed that we reach an  savings of five percent per year for the next ten years in the house office buildings now mr ayres is responsible for a lot more than the house you know i would point out that this five percent is pretty aggressive for ten years that's a fifty percent reduction it is aggressive but it certainly is nowhere near as aggressive as a private sector's doing wal mart for example in each of its new stores requires a twenty five percent reduction from one of their doing that we're not doing that's amazing to see what the bottom line will do the people who have to pay for we have to pay for the energy their own pocket they set goals that in fact gets significant reductions is two percent three percent it we're talking to the indians is is is impressive only as we exceed them what is wal mart doing why do they set such a high goal and we have these peny teeny tiny goals because it pays off to ask for g a o report and it's going to say well how much do they spend in order to save how much we're just beginning this and we need to know this subcommittee needs to know how do we measure whether or not this in fact saves anything i don't know and it is going to be very important for you and for miss to be aired to find a way it is not rocket science that's why wal mart is doing it they know exactly how much they have invested in order to get the payback go visit disclose something but the next time we have a hearing we will need to have some cost benefit analysis how much did we invest what is the payback this year what is what what are we getting a lot of this is is in fact being measured now so i would very much press for measurements to begin now because if you begin it later on it is harder to in fact do cause and effect could not be more critical  respond as a testimony points out we my office invested one hundred thousand dollars in the purchase of compact fluorescent light bulbs we've replaced seventy seven thousand of the thirty thousand light bulbs in the house of representatives the total cost of that was  hundred thousand dollars and we know that the energy savings attributable to that investment is little payback in five months so on the six months we're going to be banking money once you bring that had i want i would bring us the bill and i would be more than happy to bring you the bill but i  also point out to you that the inspector general has been following along behind us and has calculated that it will cost the energy savings attributable to the investment in weight c f l light bulbs will be one point two million dollars over the next ten years so it's under twenty thousand dollars a year from the investment that we've made now that we're talking here to a true believer but i wanted talking to a true believer to have but i want to make sure  that that that because and it looks like you're being tracked if you're a small enough for that matter even the capital itself is small enough enterprise to to do it and because you're at the threshold of this and because it seems so impressive  i'm very anxious to have the documented evidence of exactly what you're saying everyone says it will produce well let's see if it does i believe it will well i don't prove prove us wrong but let's see the evidence yeah we do have the evidence and we'd be more than happy to provide that as i pointed out in my testimony you know we used to spend somewhere between thirty seven and forty five tons of material to the landfills in the area we now are sending only eleven million levon tons to the landfills and that is in the form of compost which will then be coming back here  as a product get all very impressive what do you do with the compost you sell it what do you do they are being used as a department of agriculture for their research at the research station they use it on the facility food compost waste mystically thank you madam chair what you're talking about here is making investments for actually two things one i can see making an investment to reduce that cost in the future or for energy efficiency and then there's making investments in green initiatives and you know the cost for a fifty percent reduction six hundred million dollars is a pretty hefty cost got to ask you about about some of these things how does how much you spend on carbon offsets this year eighty nine thousand dollars how much you're going to spend next year on don't know  making us more efficient because quite frankly i think it's a bunch of crap if you purchase somebody else's efficiency you're not doing anything to make capital more efficient when you do that what is that got to do with saving the taxpayers money and and making the capital more of what we've taxpayers money directly under is to operate the capital in a carbon neutral manner now you know how the question is how do we get there we need to reduce our carbon footprint and to do that we have to make sure we were making last year's appropriations bill and we're working with the architect to get the contract signed by pepco how does that make the house more efficient when it comes to saving the taxpayers money on on energy what's what if the wind doesn't blow  it's part where we're part of a regional network and we the that purchase will reduce the carbon emissions from the operations of the house of representatives but how do you save the taxpayer money by making us more efficient when you shut off and you say we're no longer going to use coal natural gas we're just going to use wind how does that save the taxpayer money in the long run by making by by energy savings by by savings you're still i just don't see that happening and what's more and this goes to mr ayres that kind of ties into it to how does it save the taxpayers money when we retrofit a system instead of just waiting for the capital improvement project that's going to come you know eventually down the line when you're changing out components and changing out systems now but you know you're going to have to completely redo the system or a building in the future how does that say the taxpayer  money and and and make us more energy efficient seems to me like we're spending money that we're going to turn right back around and spend again eventually wouldn't you rather do it when when the project comes up in its timetable that would certainly be the best and most cost effective time to do it before talking about saving the taxpayer money and being more efficient a lot of these things are going to save the taxpayer money i can see investing in the future to have more energy efficient more energy efficient cost savings through energy efficiency but but cutting off and sources of electricity and and saying that you know we're one hundred percent wind power which i think is a bunch of crap too because it all goes into the grid and  can't tell me that all the energy that we're getting for electricity is coming from wind power and if you're getting that from the consortium whatever in say west virginia or pennsylvania you know when the wind isn't blowing or they're not producing a lot of electricity and where are you getting that wind power from where you purchased it from how far away is it coming from you know what's that costing the taxpayers so there are two different things if you're talking about spending money again to make this more efficient save the taxpayers money in the wrong long run that's one thing but when you're talking about spending money for you know to purchase carbon credits and stuff like that that isn't doing anything to save the taxpayers money in the long run that's just spending money so you can say something that really feels good have a rather low consciousness frankly on whether or not this should be done whether it's worth the investment a lot of money from their point of view need to be convinced and i believe i have seen data that i find convincing but it does seem to me as we go along you have these questions have to be have to be taken very seriously and i answered mr graves question about you know you're packing something in that you may take down the whole thing really has to do with the appropriation system we don't do that with built without that we have a building fund that keeps us from having to do that and one of the things if we do legislation is i hope we do we don't have to figure out is housing can see that there is enough money to go ahead and do a project because i must say i see mr bearden mr ayres i see a real competition here between the need to comply with long term planning and plan to overhaul something entirely or take it out and the need to maintain things that  almost think you need a separate maintenance budget from your budget to really we knew we have been reconstruct i don't know what we need but i does seem to me that it c for thinking outside the box if we're serious about doing something paygo climate nobody's going to look like we're spending so much more for the capital than we're spending ploy on the veteran's administration or other pressing needs and so i'm very interested in getting together with with all three of you and others you would recommend to think through how to keep the parts of the process from competing with one another and making it look like maybe we're wasting money mr ross you said you would be hiring a diverse workforce it's that or how much hiring has been done how many people are to be hired there are about two hundred fifty two people to be hired on any two hundred fifty two we probably hired in the neighborhood of about twenty as of the middle of april the large job fair is not april seventh and eighth where is that going to be held it's going to be at the hotel around the corner from the ford's theater for building which i mind there and that's on the seventh and eighth next monday and tuesday two hundred eighty five people qualified for those interviews so i will be on this excuse me say that you've already held it it's next monday and tuesday the seventh and washington post we also took out some ads in the metro express which sort of attracted a different audience in other websites and we also distributed information through the various caucus is so we were able to get a rather diverse pool of people to apply and our partners around the capitol are going to help us through the interview process one of the job categories the one we're talking here is visitor assistant these are people who will be greeting people they may be sitting at terminals they may be outside sort of an interesting position we will be hiring moving forward supervisors within the visitor assistance positions i have coming on board a web site people attorneys that started today with the whole by job category based on the general categories reported to the equal employment opportunity commission the same categor could could could i ask about this very controversial capital power plant this in the vein of i may say so in my personal existence since i've come here this is the greatest polluter in the district of columbia which has taken great plains to rid ourselves of such power plants and where the political implications and can't and the speaker is trying to get around them in the way and the only way she can ask how much the power plant in use since i believe you testified that a great deal of what is being done is being done to natural gas and and the rest mr mr as how much of that power plant where i have personally seen from my constituents the flakes on on their houses and on their porches not recently but when i first came to congress and so i'm trying to find out how much power plant still remains how much of it is in use and how much of it is necessary still what is it used for medicare the capital power plant provides steam and chilled water steam for heating purposes and chilled water for cooling purposes to all of the facilities on capitol hill as well as several that are off the hill and that's his primary purpose it operates twenty four hours a day seven days a week fifty two see year we certainly have are nearing the completion of the expansion of the west refrigeration plant and that portion of the plant will provide additional cooling water capacity that was primarily needed for the new capital visitor center but also to meet the increasing cooling demands of the capital called i've got to come from the capital power plant to yes man is everything we do have to come from that i mean do we have any alternative we come from someplace else i don't know that there is a an alternative that's in the district certainly there is an alternative that we could move from a a district or a central utility plant to an individual building by building a utility system that has we've taken a look at that it's probably two to two and a half billion dollars to move one nobody's going to do that when all we had to do  'm interested in how does it work if you purchase your electricity from pepco how do you get wind power i mean is there significant wind generated energy in this place you can buy a variety of types of electricity from pepco and wind is one of them others include how much when do we buy today we purchase three percent renewable some of that may be wind some of it maybe other sources could i ask about zip car who knows about zip car i just found out about it while we were on our trip to india yes we went to zipcar which is a private company and we went to zipcar and flexcar there were two companies at the time we got proposals from them to store their vehicles here in the rayburn garage  and if you want to use a car you simply go online and reserve a car and go down and pick it up and drive it and have a car where mr b rayburn garage what's the frequency of use mr beer i'd have to get you the statistics it hasn't been the greatest use of zip cars has been by people members particularly who signed up here and then use it in their districts  they are as if cars been satisfied enough with the that we still have two cars here and how they powered these are prius toyota prius or hybrid ice those statistics isn't well known and i mean i have a hybrid maybe i wouldn't have thought to look it well known in the house among staff and members that you can you can use as zip car rather than your big ole whatever to get well it seems to be fairly well known we've taken we've made multiple efforts to try to advertise program with zip cars could i could i ask ms ms rouse well between you and mr ayres mr ayres spoke about the treadmill in which we are operating ranking member referred to as well and that has to do with how to maintain things while you're trying to move forward sometimes to reference it all together never used in any other part of the capital of united states or given your need is it necessary for you to move resources to more urgent need since this is a brand dilemma i can certainly assure you that the execution of that project and its transfer formation to a fully functional visitor services operation is our top priority and we're simply not going to drop the ball it will be a class a facility as it should be and we will ensure it's maintained it is maintained and it has a lot to be costly to make my point is that given city's needs which are pretty awesome mr ayres i'm trying to find out if substantial significant dollars are going to be needed to maintain this facility as we move forward you heard the ranking member ask about can on the oldest building i'm trying to figure out as we contemplate legislation how in the world do you figure out your priorities now a new building you wouldn't want you know a scratch on it and yet you have buildings have been scratched up or decades is maintaining a new facility like this at this stage of the game fairly low cost does it become high cost only at some later stage educate me that's certainly true i knew building does not require the kind of maintenance that a two hundred year old capital and you're absolutely right and those are the dollars and our appropriations are segregated our maintenance dollars are generally in a different category than our capital improvement dollars and generally speaking they're not going to compete with one another unless where we really get upside down in a particular building thank you that's very reassuring of the full committee i think would surely if he were here ask about the status of the photovoltaics study for the rayburn bruv and i will go further and say about the other the other photovoltaic undertakings that we believe may be under way in order to save energy and to move us toward a greener capital could you give us anything further on that yes  have partnered with the department of energy to come out and look at the rayburn roof as well as the heart roof as was required by the legislation in addition we've looked at all of the other buildings on the capitol  complex to determine their feasibility for the building integrated photo but take root systems we focused of course on rayburn and hard as they have roof replacements that are necessary in the very near future  we have done that we've received their report and i believe we have shared that with the subcommittee as well and generally speaking the report indicates that the photovoltaics are not cost effective in this application meaning that's important to know meaning the payback period is typically longer than the lifespan of the product themselves so for example the rayburn payback was well over fifty years why and that's the effect of having i want to do that with a payback greater than twenty years and by that time there'd probably be a whole booth with the better payback is to be a that is the kind of information we need that you know we're going off of what seems to make better sense is there any substitute light green moves that should be used at this time that would be energy efficient would save us from runoff in addition and the like we also took a careful look at green roofs both on rayburn and the hart building  structural analysis on the rayburn building simply said it's not feasible to install the green roof on the rayburn building it was feasible in the hart building in portions of the dirksen building but again the payback period far exceeded the potential life span of own that dam was not feasible to put some plants and some grass up on a roof or tell me why it's not feasible but typically it's up to a foot of soil and other product on top of your existing roof so the weight of one of those far exceeds the weight of the existing roof so the structural members simply weren't designed to carry that amount of weight thank you very much very important feedback i want to thank all three of you for a very very helpful testimony thank you very much until next time thank you patience you may proceed first achieve more thank you good morning madam chair and chairman over starr i'd like to thank you and members of the committee for inviting me here today to discuss the united states capitol police department's involvement in the esses com capital complex master plan as well as our ongoing planning for the security requirements of the capitol visitor center and the department's efforts to support the esses energy conservation program i would like to begin by acknowledging the relationship we enjoy between the united states capitol police and the s c while faced with many facilities and security issues we have found or have formed a relationship intent on finding solutions for our common goal of providing a capital complex that provides for the operational and security needs of the legislative branch various projects included in the master plan have to have an effect on our security systems and operations for example we are currently working with the s c to provide security for the ongoing tunnel project as well as completion of the capitol visitor center related to ongoing facility requirements directly facing the apartment we work with the a s c and establish the facilities master plan in one thousand nine hundred nine that forecasted the needs of the department into the year two thousand and ten this initial plan along with subsequent updates resulted in the establishing short and medium term leases designed to bridge the gap until permanent solutions could be funded and constructed currently the department is seeking a permanent solution for an off site delivery center vehicle maintenance facility property management storage facility command and communications complex to include the radio and data center and a long term location consolidation f appends of the fairchild and current headquarters buildings department is working with the s c a long term solutions in these issues in the near term the department is working closely with the s c on the final steps to prepare for the completion of the c d c in two thousand and eight this new facility will efficiently process high volumes of guests and visitors and bring them into a safe controlled and monitored environment as quickly as possible while maintaining the highest level of security and protection we are continuing discussions with the s c and the district's apartment of transportation to look at bus routes in the capitol complex as well as the most efficient message methods for transporting visitors while maintaining our operational security plans for the complex should the concept of circular buses be approved to move tourists around the capitol complex as well as addressed increased pedestrian flow we believe that the additional personnel and infrastructure resources may be necessary in an effort to support the legislative branches in energy conservation and the should of that apartment serves as a member of the legislative branch chief administrative officer council green building process is working group addressing this matter additionally the department is working with the a o c on an energy conservation evaluation of all capital police facilities in addition department is incorporating hybrid any eighty five vehicles into the lifecycle replacement of our fleet where feasible further we have a fleet of bicycles which are utilized to provide campus coverage and mobility for operational activities the department remains committed to continuing the highest level of security and services provided to the congress and the visitors of the capitol complex with the continued support of congress and our partners at the  c in the department will be able to provide for the sworn workforce and operational support mechanisms needed to meet the security requirements for the complex once again i just want to thank you for this opportunity to discuss these issues with you today and also i'd like to thank you for your continued support of the united states capitol police at this time i'd be happy to answer any questions that you might have thank you very much  service to the capitol complex and foul line other measures designed to ensure traffic flow and hence enhance best friend safety in the area in june of last year i testified before this subcommittee and gave an overview of an approach propose union station capital visitor center navy yard circulator bus route this route would allow visitors of our nation's capital to utilize union station as an initial staging area before venturing to other states within the complex in the jason neighborhoods i'm a police announce pleased to report this route is currently being piloted using existing one model buses the district has also procured several new buses that are scheduled to arrive as late as january two thousand and nine the workplace existing metro bus vehicles the archetype of the capital is indicated approximately three million people will visit the new c v c and f y two thousand and nine this in addition to the one million library of congress visitors per year our hope is that the new union station c b c navy yard route will offer a reliable frequent low cost and tourist friendly transit service to individuals and families visiting the c b c and other national malaria attractions  anticipation of this massive influx of people in and around the new c b c the district is preparing a set of pedestrian safety enhanced maps sampling meant we plan to share these these ideas with the u s capitol police for their input and these recommendations will include measures such as the following the deployment of traffic control officers intersections the retiming of traffic signals in the immediate vicinity of the c b c the restraining unhandsome in the process walks and the installation of way fining signage and other appropriate signage we will monitor conditions after the opening of the c b c and adjust our taxes actiq says necessary we have estimated the f b i two thousand and nine operating costs of the propose c circulator out at approximately three point two million dollars the district is planning to make a contribution of local funds however it is critical that the federal government assist us with the f y o nine operating cost of this new route in the absence of significant federal of a significant federal contribution other district transit improvements will suffer and the planned route must be scaled back i'd like to say this opportunity thank you congresswoman norton for your leadership to ensure that the transportation needs of the c b c are adequately addressed both in terms of transit and minimizing the impact of the center on the surrounding community and this is certainly been the case in regards to your sponsorship of our requests for funding in the f y two thousand and nine federal budget the hearing last summer i say the following continuous communication and coordination with the architect of the capitol and u s capitol police would be essential to ensure the smooth movement of people around the capital and to securing additional sees me securing operational capital funding is challenging and additional funding is needed to implement the planned transit services to accommodate c b c visitors my police report that the u s capitol police and the architects of the capitol  maintained continuous communication and have worked very closely together over the past several months secondly funding does continue to be a challenge the district has already made an investment in new buses and will allocate additional local resources for the f thousand and nine operational costs however it's certainly our view that we do need a commitment from our federal partners to support in f y two thousand and nine the opening of the new c b c in the make it a safe and enjoyable experience for all i thank you again for the opportunity  both and may i thank god steve morse for the way in which the capitol police have worked closely with the district of columbia as they sure have assured us all along and as we've now heard testimony this is a federal city and working closely together is absolutely essential particularly on security matters and now particularly transportation matters gentlemen without knowing who can know when to subpoena that whatever are the number and they're in the millions of people who come to the capitol every year will be substantially increased when they hear there's a new convention center and of course missed a lot of me knows that we like them spending another few hours or days in the in the district what have you to do you anticipate i think that you know as far as visitors are concerned to the capitol i've i've been a police officer here for about twenty three years and it's always a consistent flow of visitors and they've always come no matter rain sleet or snow or what the threat environment is so i fully anticipate that the numbers that we have seen over the past years will continue to come to the that's what well i'm sure we're going to have as many with what i'm trying to find  out is what only my gut tells me because i start and i look and you may have am trying to find out if you have a more scientific way of calculating whether or not there will be a a significant increase or whether the flow  has been since i was a kid since my father was a kid and you know we know that they continue to come even continue to come when their crime spikes in the district they come and i'm trying to find out whether there will be an onslaught of new visitors who for example i'll give you exactly what i'm talking about we get half the people coming our schoolchildren well if your school children have been to the capital before the teacher might say well you know this time we're going to spend more about time at the will say well i'm taking the kids to the c d c and then to the spy museum and the rest is there anyway i'm not asking you to do the impossible but sometimes people are able to calculate for example mr money may have a better exam notion of this because our department of tourism or whatever you call them may keep better records i'm trying to know whether there's any way to prepare for what's in my gut and what may be in you in the data to a you we do have the washington convention tours and commission which does do some estimations of visitors to the city and we have heard from them they were anticipating an increase for the next several years not only due to the c b c but other other new attractions opening in the city i think perhaps the chief and i were discussing the panel before us they may have already started trying to get some commitments or reservations men made for visitors in the future they may be able to rely on them to give us some more specific could you ask the convention tourism bureau to submit within thirty days of this subcommittee their calculations of what increases are likely and over what period of time for example you might imagine that the greatest increase would come here i know not of which i speak i know not what i'm talking about but you might imagine that the greatest an influx would come in the warmer weather you might imagine that the greater influx would come where we first opened i'm just trying to make sure they were not caught unawares just because we don't know there are ways to calculate these things i would just regard columbia does all the time because it wants these top stories here i would like that calculation hasn't been done i would request that it be done now transportation is a major concern and it is so in one with security you can't you can't do you being linked to we're going to hear testimony that calls into question our transportation plan there may be some vested interest in this but that's exactly how we get things sorted out this accident just in everything you all have a vested interest so we when i heard that there were concerns i asked y they argue that if you take these visitors that they come to union station they then transfer to the circulator bus and there isn't enough space to accommodate these large i hate them they are too large buses that somebody decided they were going to buy these great long speedy buses that i think they got on sale and that's why they they bought them but in a case that union station won't accommodate and that there are enough smaller circulator buses to accommodate them in other words there's going to be even worse having to go there and i'm sure the tourist town just love it you know you go over there and you come here it's like calling somebody up and you know what you do this one and then your family get the e what would be your response to that criticism of the transportation plan well let me i'll speak to the the buses that you mentioned before i think in my testimony mentioned  just ordered additional buses that will be here in january two thousand and nine only about those buses the good news about those buses they are the smaller vehicles there's a thirty foot circulator vehicles that will be able to maneuver in tighter spaces and  there's a real contribution that the federal government ought to be helping you with but go ahead we thought it was the right investment to make those hybrid alternative vehicle clean diesel and modern diesel which is a lot cleaner than what you typically think of diesel low for easy to inspect which is one of the security concerns that our our partners in the u s capitol police have one of the reasons why we proposed the about the things that we don't like the big ones or are we only talking about the smaller ones well and in the interim right now we are doing the pilot with the wal mart of buses which are i believe those are thirty foot buses the  we talk about the circulator things you know those that do they go to union station along with the smaller vehicles that you are purchasing and already have i guess the existing circulator bus the longer ones do serve the union station and then they take folks down to the georgetown  case reroute this proposed route with the thirty four buses will also be there as well ok only the thirty foot buses that were going to union station know both will be a union station ok where did they go well typically they go in front of columbus circle right there in front of union station but we're in the process of doing reconstruction so they are now collecting people at the rear of union station and then coming up front and taking folks down k street now we're at the union station do you mean you go up a street or do you mean you somehow go to massachusetts avenue and go to the rear the massachusetts into the park and if you go by the f c c and behind union station to the parking garage between h and the actual you know but you enter it how to the main right off massachusetts avenue always how many we're talking what do you do with the long circulator buses well currently it sounds very this is this is this is a facility with which i am familiar and i am having a hard time envisioning the low just like you describe i'd like us all to get together i understood it's right now we are in a bit of transition because there is construction is about to commence at the front of union station for columbus circle and for that reason we've decided we everywhere relocate the circulator buses to the rear of the facility to allow us to do the construct a lot of the other buses plus the commercial buses that will bring the the the visitors in the first place there that's correct trying situation frankly it's temporary until the construction is complete but i'm having a hard time in beijing all those buses around the circle as well i understand that you  metro systems that surround the capitol complex with capital south and federal so you working with the bus transportation people who bring our visitors here in the first place so that maybe they go by smaller circulator buses or even the larger ones at some point without going all the way to union station they can actually part of america can tell you more about that but the there are other circulator systems and rouse that that serve the western this time around for the commercial vehicles that bring the people to the city in the first place why do these people have to be brought to union station which i going to have some of my angry in the first place and then brought to the cabin that i'm the first to say you're not bringing those buses to our street so that's there are certain things that are off limits but i'm trying to wonder whether we're not creating another pilot point at one of the most congested parts the district already which is that massachusetts avenue thorough thier right to go there i voided because of the circles and the rest of it and i live on capitol about companies want to come up here with their folks now if we could i can understand i can understand and i'm not trying to suggest that union station should be off limits but we creating a transfer point for people who who are anxiously trying to get to the capital it's a very good what you're doing because you're trying to get them here rather than using these great long buses that you know  with security reasons back on that come close to this place but what i'm missing is why nancy why the why is there magic in union station i would argue the magic for union station manager is that a number of those can be served a union station if you take metro rail you can come off the metro rail to walk onto the circulator bus if you take an amtrak from the northeast corridor or you can hop off well we're not trying to deal with people already in the city on tour buses at the moment i understand these are the folks god bless them the ones i'm most concerned about are the ones who come on these tour buses from out of town and i'm trying and if you're coming some other way then t transfer point makes greater sense you come from that other way you've gotten to union station we will take you to the capital but as i indicated half the people come here schoolchildren most of them come to these buses one way or the other many of them of course are not and i'm trying to find whether whether they start from can we pick them up point other than union station that supposes bottom line question on this one one one thing that you had asked us to do there were several questions especially for the bus the commercial buses coming to the city from out of town one was where do we park one of the solutions is union station where there are as parking spaces there are other alternative locations that they're working on to direct commercial buses to to park after they drop off passengers the other solution is connecting the various circulator systems at the other visiting sites  in order for buses to do one drop off and have people circulated through the various attractions so several things are working here one is a circulator system that provides from a hub a union station which provides commercial buses parking it provides amenities they're not available have not been available and parking that hasn't been available in the past and the department of transportation is also working on other locations where buses can park so what we have provided at your direction is a circulator bus system existing circulator bus systems with other attractions that all interconnect with the capitol visitor center as well as providing commercial buses a place to park at the rear of union station as well as giving them direction at other locations to park whenever they drop off at other scenic attractions so i think that  and the department of transportation's effort in that and that respect at your direction has been very positive and and then the marketing aspect of this is very critical as well from the standpoint of the of ms rouses area responsibility that they provide information not only to the public but also to the commercial and and the various transportation systems about timing and and locations offs and pickups at the c d c and of itself so i think we've done a pretty good job of your direction madam chair to to answer those questions that were concerning the the boss understood well i think i think you have i think you have and and somehow people did it the trains were what was crowded with the train marketing can be done who's paying for the fifty spaces i mean that you say the fifty spaces staff tells me there are fift i have just a couple more questions but i'm pleased that the chairman has been able to break loose from his meetings and may have questions on this to these witnesses capital with the new visitor center things have come a long way from the days when i worked up here on capitol hill and the house post office in the nineteen fifties is a graduate student most of the capitol police at that time were also graduate students there were very few we all had friends and family coming to washington to visit the nation's capitol and see the capitol facility itself and often eight nine ten o'clock at night we walked through the capitol with family and and the  police are our graduate school or law school colleagues would say oh come on can we help you now if you try to come as a member that late at night with the house not in session you're treated like a suspect terrorist you can't get through the doors are locked it's it's most it's most public unfriendly because of security not not because you want to make it miserable but but the whole environment has  transformed because of the threat to public security how many officers are there on the capitol police force today are authorized strength is about seven hundred foreign and the about four hundred civilian workforce and are you at strength we are authorized at that seven hundred but what is the actress playing the actual strength that have to get to the numbers but we're probably in the sixteen hundred range  police with the with the maryland and virginia jurisdictions as well but we have an incident command structure within the capitol police and a command center which is the nerve center that we also have  if you will from a and standpoint to operate with the metropolitan police as well as other law enforcement agencies in the district of columbia and the metropolitan area through either direct access to them or liaison to their police departments do connect with homeland security department yes we have representatives liaison's with various federal law enforcement agencies throughout the region secret service with homeland security with the metropolitan police force is that essentially it's right there are obviously other federal law enforcement agencies that are affected by an air threat why not we have a about a twenty five year old radio system that last year in the spring during budget hearings i made a priority to to look at that radio system and probable encrypted radio system that would serve that would serve the united states capitol police and and the congress and did the appropriations committee provide the funding for you to to do this the oversight committees of the very very helpful and appropriations has given us direction and we have followed that direction and will be reporting to them very shortly on our findings and regarding the  would be and the extent of the work that would need to be accomplished in order to get an enron problem radio system for the united states cabinet has what has been the effect of not having an interoperable communications system as it meant for your for the capitol police and for the other jurisdictions well respect to having and old generation radio system there obviously maintenance problems that you have with that and reliability regarding the interoperability as we see area jurisdictions around us go a knowing that and a catastrophic situation or a crisis situation that all these agencies must be able to work together so you can't use your radio communication you have to use landlines we would have to use landlines one counties a seven thousand square miles of itself but the radio systems don't work in those remote areas and they can't get funding from fema to upgrade their systems and fema then said  we want you to have an eight hundred megahertz communication network and it doesn't work in the trees of of the northern forest so it seems seems to me you ought to  be i want our volunteer fire departments to have the the the best equipment to be able to talk to each other talk to the to the county sheriff's department and and to communicate among the several counties in need to back each other up we're talking vast expanses of land but here we are in the nation's capital and you would not be able instantly to communicate with your brother police departments is astonishing to me well as you know congressman as chief for fifteen sixteen months now identified this pretty quickly as a as a necessity for operations and like i said reporting this to our committees of oversight and their support has us pretty far down the road on this and we're ready to report out to them on our findings and and looking forward for their support in this area this very critical area to the other jurisdictions to support the concept of department we're talking about a capitol visitor center which is sub training which is unique where our officers will be working below ground and and have been working on  tunnel systems and and they are aware radio cation is very very important so we are very unique in that respect and and certainly that's probably the most difference and and systems from  we look around the metropolitan area as we look at the metropolitan police and just most recently in prince george's county where there stablish ing and interoperable radio system for i believe twenty seven minutes apologies within that county we see interoperability was critical to handling that situation and those those types of events are really the threat environment that we work in and as a police department i saw it necessary that we prepare ourselves accordingly equipment to be to be administered we we will be presenting our presentation to the capitol police board this week or next week at a at a board routine board meeting and then we'll be prepared at that point to go forward to the oversight committees with the findings will that be a classified document i don't believe it will be classified oh certainly be law enforcement sensitive and we'd like to have a copy available to the committee for our review our consideration given our responsibilities in this area as well in whatever form whatever restricted access that  grand visitor center and grand scheme is quite something else to get people to and from it actually the planning for visitors center began well before september eleventh station offload people from those buses onto a circulator system send them up to the visitor center and then shuttle them back to union  station i think that's kind of going to result in a great discouragement of travel and wonder if you've given consideration to other options one one thing for for example off loading visitors on to the shuttle are they going to have to pay for that shuttle to the the only way to get to this capitol visitor center i don't think we want to make it clear it's not the only way to actually get to the c b c you can choose to to walk or ride your bicycle or or or other means but that would be the fastest most direct converging on the capitol why why couldn't you have a as they suggest screening of those buses to secure them and then and then let the bus drop people off at the visitor center entrance and move them smartly off to another location those were options that were discussed  prior to the options that are that are being looked at now those drive cost of manpower they drive costs of quitman and resources and in order to do an adequate screening a bus well before it arrives on the capitol complex check it for bombs and and and you and you know who these bus companies are pretty standard i like and i can just off the top my head think of at least six names that i see regularly i won't name them here i don't want to get in the business of advertising but  meter them into the visitor center drop off you know what time it takes a few minutes to drop people off and to the buses on why why does that become a why in your commercial or commercial conveyance metro transit circulator system maryland transportation virginia because we don't want to impact commercial conveyance but it becomes very problematic with regard to traffic and where you do that and the logistics of facilitating that are very difficult but with that being said it takes manpower to do that and equipment to do that and it becomes a funding issue as well but as far as a security issue is concerned once once a vehicle is rendered safe then certainly we are satisfied that you know that that it can traverse the grounds it's just the number of buses that we're we're talking about the limited space to do this type of screening the manpower involved and the funding involved there seemed to be other solutions that were more economically feasible and also really participated in the the other visiting sites within the district of columbia because the buses don't just come to the capitol and visitors don't just come to the capitol they go to so many other attractions in the city and and what the department of transportation has offered is a means in which visitors  not just limited to want to traction now they can come to the district of columbia they have a place to park they will be directed to other locations to park they have amenities and shelter they have a means of transportation to and from and they really enter interact with the other attractions here in the city so i think overall it's a it's a really good plan and it's and it's connecting the dots between all the memorial the washington monument to other locations is that what they would be doing the the current the currently operating circulated does service a lot of those locations the route that we're discussing right here actually serves more goes down to the navy yard near the baseball stadium also via the the waterfront area and then near the long fall federal city area so the circulator was developed as a system a broader system to really tie together what the federal city offers to taurus as well as the things that the this is the columbia offers it gives people the opportunity not only just come and see the monuments but able to see other parts of the city including downtown the washington monument the lincoln memorial on this and on and on so it's really part of a this is just one tactic in a broader strategy of moving people around to get in to see more than just just one or two buildings the other one point i wanted to make was and and this was a concern of our of our community and i i meet with the a n c commissioners mr david garrison specifically to address their concerns pretty routinely is that with the multiple sites and attractions we do have buses that are now traversing throughout the city with giving them a hub and a central location and providing them with parking and providing them with connectivity with other monuments we lessen the amount of movement of these buses which translates into you know and vironment issues and and traffic issues and certainly been in our neighborhoods so i think this plan also addresses that as well the concern of our neighbors the movement of buses throughout the city parking issues traffic issues and environmental issues i think it's a i think it's a sound proposal one and one that and one that we support not only from the from that perspective but from a security perspective chairman of the senate i just want to clarify one point you mention the one dollar charge that is a p t charge but for three dollars you have an all day pass and you can ride the broader system anywhere throughout the city that are runs for three dollars for the day well i think this bears further scrutiny madam chair and  chairman i think you have brought out of port and points and i think your answers have been important to i think this discussion this exchange shows the dilemma and i see the advantages i certainly see the advantages we maybe to capital that are oriented in it and that's that's one of the reasons i'm going to ask you both to come see me to make me understand just a little more because i see the dilemma i competing considerations i do want you to consider before you come to see me come prepared to talk about this tour buses come to the botanic gardens don't thing right now  now of course if you are handicapped you can get away otherwise you walk the way up and most people do one begins to wonder whether or not we ought to be providing a lots of great britain but there's going to union station whether in the smaller non gas powered vehicles like golf carts or whatever more readily available to simply bring people up the hill might be a better way then this transfer point people used to come into botanic gardens they don't complain i congratulate the way you all have put some over them they know it's the capital you have them wait down at the bottom and then there's another waiting point and then there's another point they get you and one would have to figure out how to get them to the convention center that's not difficult at all i'm doing is trying to think of some alternatives since we already allow these tour buses to come pretty close to the capitol as i understand it that's been working i don't want to spend more time either but i think the chairman has opened an important point i do want to ask you this chief morris with respect we are now going to open se the bus route that is proposed is is massachusetts to do easy and to first street northwest to constitution to first treat northeast and then over to independence and then a continuation of the route east on independence avenue to eight street southeast letterman you mean to say that these buses would not come down first street or not they wouldn't at this point that i not the route foul that was one of the things i thought was was it was definitely in the play on the tour buses can't do this you close it off to the world but with these buses these circulator buses the circulator buses would be able to come down first street now you've got them touring all round robin hood's barn even with these approve the heckles  why what happened you all told me that that was one of the advantages and now you're telling me that that is not to happen there are several things that have changed with respect to the first street northeast and that the parking is now in the hundred block the one hundred block or first street northeast on both sides of the street that that used to be there and the proposed two way traffic of our use ok this is one of the widest streets in the district of columbia have buses go down streets a whole lot narrower than this with this is a new excuse so i have to ask in the parking it makes sense plenty of room to go both ways with circulator buses particularly the smaller ones but even the bigger ones i'm sure if i could this issue are now i really hit one of my real campus trying to close the damn thing in the first place scuse me it's right that from the record shouldn't it close that in the first place it was one of those need drug things even though keith last i want you to come to see me about this there is technology even for buses regular metro buses that assures that those buses could go to secure places now you're telling me that the most secure transportation can't go down the street despite a promise made directly to me that that would be one of the advantages of using the circulator system now you talk sorry they got to park on those places if i did not know what the first street looks like who made that decision made i'm route the metro currently runs that's the that's the fallback with that's obviously a point to an open point that we've been decide on know who made this decision but whoever all the people who are making the decision to close first in the first place seem to get gotten back into the act and we're just not going to have it first of all first it ought to be open and there is technology that we discussed even at the time it was close nobody wanted to hear about what with mob years after nine eleven we're not going to take closing down this city and can't even open it up to get people to the capital business and the guys were afraid of what what people on both sides of the street have been allowed to park and this is this is very disappointing for me to hear to say it's on the table i'm telling you gentlemen these things are coming through first street if i have anything to do with it we also do on the whole notion of creating another whole pattern of traffic making constitution avenue  difficult to get off makes no sense unless you can show me that there are security reasons for it certainly the reasons about parking on both sides which i have personally witnessed do not do not and do not make the case as to the criticize it i don't think that i have not looked at your competing really quite impossible situation let me ask you if you would vote by the way mr chairman you and i have just signed a letter saying and we want gr to be located there we recognize that wouldn't happen immediately but we have just signed the letter by part of the letter and by the way he was greyhound bus station there and then i don't know what you do with these buses if greyhound came there not let these security considerations become yet another impediment between the people of this country and their capital i'd mention very early on just casually  w things were fifty years ago when i was a graduate student here times change we recognize this is a new era but security is pumping everything and over weening emphasis on security is going to make our nation's capital so discouraging to people from the heartland constituency is the district of columbia is all the people who live here work here recreate here she also has a responsibility those who come from around the country throughout the united states and from abroad nation's capital going to make it so arduous so complex and yes some additional costs that people can say it's just not worth it it's just not worth it and i don't want to see that happen and i out in terms of interoperability here i'm sit as a member of the homeland security committee does me i have been under the impression that the capitol police had could i just can't believe this we've been in danger all this time is all i can say all you know is once people get here are some who is going to say we will be the paul revere's are all out there including this jail columbia police department this is extremely disturbing mr mr chairman if you would i believe we should write a letter to the appropriations committee and the catering our concern apart from excuse quite apart from security imagine the transportation nexus between capital police now and the district of columbia as you move toward this what committed to alternative fuel vehicles what can you tell me about the capitol police what is your fleet what how big is your fleet how often are they replaced we have two hundred thirty seven motor motorized vehicles sixty seven are motorcycles and we obviously can't handle them we have two hundred thirty seven motorized vehicles sixty seven motorcycles and also in our including our fleet vehicle and torrie are the mobile signage mobile lights and those types of things with respect to vehicles that are alternative fuel vehicles we currently have fifteen hybrid or eighty five battery operated vehicles at my direction all replacement vehicles with respect to patrol type cars and motorized vehicles will be three new vehicles with eighty five so we are we're replacing vehicles as budget allows and recycling process we get about one hundred twenty thousand miles on a vehicle probably somewhere in the neighborhood a new directive was given for all new sedan type vehicles to purchase alternative fuel hybrid vehicles and we've been doing that actually the direct was given to reduce the size of the fleet over the next several years i don't have a specific  us as we have in addition to sedans we also have heavy equipment that we operate that they don't have a hybrid alternatives quite yet for but that's been a goal of ours in addition i had the the car sharing program disrespect a very strong support of that program since two thousand and two in fact identifying spots for flex cars of car throughout the city to locate those car sharing vehicles and one of the new initiatives of the mayor's announcer is working on is to look at expanding  use of car sharing within the district of columbia so professional staff and all workers can share vehicles instead of having one vehicle for an individual so that's some of the efforts we're making the reduce our carbon footprint thank you very much tom and i don't know where you are nor do i know if the congress would fund a new police headquarters but may i ask you on the status of that matter before you leave  right now that was that was the radio system was one of my number one priorities last year we are looking at the various recommendations for headquarters buildings that have been proposed of the past we certainly are working very closely with the architect of the capitol regarding various facilities that we need to help our security operations continue so where actively working on space that we have leas space that we have the possibility of of acquiring currently space to be our own but there's a lot of different options out there before we make a proposal for where the action is and either if you want a headquarters with a down turn if you want to advocate for it with the downturn in the economy would be the time to begin looking  there's been a feeling that it ought to be on capitol hill why it's used to the point where it ought to be an obvious it has to be in the district of columbia and you can pass your predecessors many for successes before you have passed up other sites it is unlikely to be on capitol hill just carry that back to whoever's talking about capitol hill if it's not on capitol hill with sites rapidly going we are building on every blade of grass in the district of columbia the only thing we won't build on is real parkland and federal and we don't keep doing it because the only way people live so that at the very least if you want headquarters somebody better put a stake in the ground on some site within the next year or so i know they're going to be no sites left i'm just giving you that advice is as the member who does a lot of the development for the federal government much of it in the district of columbia just sees it there's no place to go in and we're going across the river to san elizabeth's for the largest federal agency for the pentagon the department of homeland security if you think the federal government was easily go to the old saying elizabeth you don't understand the nature of land bail ability we're going there because we own a land and there's no place else to go so i would suggest not that it can be funded but that it's least that you try to focus on a site if you're serious otherwise you can be where you are and then looking for offsite places for parts and parcels and office buildings frankly to go to thank you both very much is very very helpful i just would just sit and talk and see this is the more it can be done on this transportation matter i appreciate very much the way you've worked together and how far  may we ask peter to sell the president's chief executive officer american bus association and james pugh of earth justice we appreciate your patience the only way to learn is to keep a dialogue going and try to find out where we are going to try to quickly take this testimony both of you a very important to this hearing mr time to so why don't we begin quickly and thank you for your leadership in conveying this hearing convening this hearing the american motor coach association is quite diverse with both large and small companies and we provide nearly six hundred million passenger trips annually nearly  l to what airlines provide most of our members bring school groups senior citizens and veterans to washington d c and each spring nearly one thousand coaches a day come to the district with as many as fifty five thousand people the testimony today is also supported by four other trade associations and organizations whose members are engaged in bringing visitors safely to the nation's capital we believe the proposal for the c b c transportation if implemented as drafted would be a disaster people attempting to visit the c b c by motor coach as was stated would arrive at union station disembarked and be reloaded on the other buses likely circulators or even smaller vehicles they pay an additional dollar per trip to travel six blocks now we understand that this proposal is advanced in the name of security and motor coaches are assumed to be more of a threat than d c s transit buses motorcoach visitors are very important to the area's economy as many as one third of d c s visitors may come by coach or ride private buses once they arrive a george washington university study estimated that each motor coach arriving for an overnight stay leaves approximately eight thousand dollars per day in the local economy so that's as much as eight million dollars a day for all coaches or coalitions concerns with the current proposal or first that union station does not have the space to accommodate the number of coaches there's no way a fraction of a thousand coaches can be accommodated in front of you news station or behind especially when you realize that an equal number of circulators in fact more than an equal number because of their smaller size would be there to meet those visitors disembarking in addition motor coaches are the friendliest environmentally friendly this form of transportation adding another one and a half vehicles per coach is a bad environment environmental policy second most motorcoach passengers coming to d c are part of a group mostly students this time of the year to see their government in action and meet the representatives  c transportation proposal will make it more difficult for groups to stay together since they will be separated on their way to and on the way from the c d c and that's not safe third and most important is the assumption that the circulator buses are more secure than private coaches and less of a threat to the capitol complex well this is simply not true motor coaches carry people who are not strangers to one another their security comes from knowing who's on the bus that's not the case with a city bus or the general public can board the scenario really begs the question which group has better security security on coaches is most often enhanced in d c by d c guides who wondered who undergo background checks and many of the  city's ansett buses use compressed natural gas which is more explosive than the diesel used by coaches and finally well private coaches are banned from the capitol complex the ban is neither uniform neurological since as was said earlier by the chief those same types of vehicles provided commuter service to maryland and virginia could proceed along the streets adjacent to the capitol it's not the motor coach that's the security problem it's people with in any potential vehicle there are several ways where security can be maintained without banning coaches we could put in place a tour bus inspection system unable in coaches to move to the closest drop off point near the new c v c prescreening could be done including pre registration of companies or company based clearances in fact one third of all the coaches in the country have already been cleared for military moves there could be advanced screening of vehicles and their contents baggage bays could be left empty and time tours of could be put in place there could be an a and identified area close to the c b c that can serve as a screening area and holding area for the empty busses are our group would be happy to work with the city to find an appropriate location it's something the city in the district has talked about for the past decade and it's really quite ironic that there exists a screening areas for cargo trucks coming to the capitol complex but not for people who arrive here identifying a drop off location for security cleared buses to drop their passengers so everyone would have easy pedestrian access without paying a dollar is another option and finally a communications plan that educates our industry the motor coach and tour operators on implementation of this plan our coalition will be pleased to use our collective resources to assist in all of these efforts and we want to work with congress with the capitol hill police indeed and with the c d c to maintain security without clogging columbus circle or just during visitation to the region for limiting the people's ability to see their capital and meet with their members of congress and certainly madam chair would be more than pleased to meet with you the chief with mr m that has the biggest impact on public health and the environment in the district and that is the capital power plant based on its coal consumption as reported in the washington post last year as well as its size in comparison to relative similar units and its inclusion on a list of affected facilities by the environmental protection agency the capital power plant is a major source of hazardous air pollutants if that is correct it is currently operating in direct violation of the clean air act in the clean air act amendments of one thousand nine hundred congress posted more than one hundred seventy pollutants as hazardous based on their potential to cause cancer and similarly devastating adverse health effects a major source as a capital power plant appears to be has the potential to emit these pollutants in large quantities at least ten times a year of any single ha and at least twenty five tons a year of any combination of hazardous air pollutants the environmental protection agency has stated that the type of boilers that the capital power plant operates in particular the coal fired pollutants including talk metals like mercury arsenic and lead toxic organic pollutants including benzene formaldehyde and auctions all of which are known or suspected carcinogens and one might expect that a major source of hazard air pollutants located in the heart of the nation's capital would be closely monitored its emissions would be closely monitored and its emissions would also be subject to strict and protective standards in fact the capital power plant does not today meet any emission standards for its hazardous air pollutants if permit does not contain any emission limits for its hazardous air pollutants or any schedule for meeting limits in the future until two thousand and four and then issued standards that were hopelessly defective so defective that they left most of the hazards there are polluting emissions from boilers completely uncontrolled and so defective that they were vacated as flatly unlawful by the d justice have recognized this hammer provision was triggered by the d c circuit of a future of e p a s rule and what it means is that as a condition of continued operation the capital power plant had to submit a permit application to the district requesting limits on all of the hazardous air pollutants that it emits the obligation to get that permit application in our crude on july thirtieth two thousand and seven when the d c circuit decision became final best more than seven months ago and yet the the operators of the capital power plant that is the act of the architect of the capitol and the general services administration have not submitted a permit application every that they continue to operate without submitting this application is another violation of the clean air  act the process of submitting an application is far from the national association of clean air agencies which is the organization representing virtually all of the state and territorial agencies that act as permanent authorities in all of the fifty states and i believe all of the territories has estimated that completing this application would take four hours or less in the seven months since july thirtieth two thousand and seven of the capital has had ample opportunity to put in the four hours of effort necessary to get this application in to conclude the federal government should not be acting in violation of federal law that is fundamental but this application is not just an exercise in paperwork it is a necessary beginning to the process of finally getting limits on the talks commissions from the capital power plant and finally providing the protection that congress intended to provide for the district residents who are exposed to these emissions the last point i'd like to make is that is it as important as the capital power plant it is and it is not the only federal facility that is in violation of the law virtually every federal facility that operates a similar boiler  is also in violation of this requirement as are thousands of privately owned boilers we hope that this committee will look into the federal facilities and if necessary refer the question of the privately owned the appropriate committee thank you well thank you both for that testimony i specifically asked that you both be added to the agenda i don't believe in hearing from government witnesses  own even when they are as credible as our witnesses have have been and you have already told me things i didn't know and things that raise issues for us  as close to the visitors center as possible we don't see union station as being any kind of objective alternative let me ask you isn't there already job people off at the pentagon we absolutely do that's the current drop off point for groups that are coming to a car you know before you drop people off the absolutely not have you suggested anything about the news to any of the parties involved we have discussed this issue a number of times both with the capitol police and we've also discussed it with mr amano me as recently as last december the concern over having circulat buses or other buses made these current motor coaches you'd have to have a one for one situation in addition to the fact that the general public rides circulator buses when you have a group of school students maybe an eighth grade history class and you might have as many as three to devices that have to do that with yes ma'am the great thing about the motor coach and the way the system works right now is the group stay together there's safety in staying together certainly that was evident after nine eleven one groups travelling wanted to be as close together as possible while groups coming from out of town are no different than any other group in the country they want to be with their own and it addition you've got schools that are spending countless millions of students here for study for different programs for educational purposes there's a tremendous liability  when you begin to split those groups up into smaller groups want to say before i go any further ms tippett so not only do i intend to meet with the capitol police and our own d c officials but later on i'd like to have all of us and a meeting architect would be left left us believing that he was in compliance with regulations and you appear to cite chapter and verse to contrary  is the architect exempt from the requirement for example to file for permit no the architect is in the same position as any other owner operator of a major source of hazardous air police so there's nothing specific permits specifically limits on all of the toxic air pollutants that the capitol power plant emit do you think that perhaps because well you understand the situation we're in the speaker is in that i am in there some  senators apparently from coal producing states who are standing in the way of getting what we've already gotten passed in the house so i'm looking so you know if it starts a process that requires something you know it's a nonstarter because i say that that is not gone that's not allowed way in which we live in the kind of country where you know some people from some part of the of the country can stop of the hate ethanol i see what it's doing to food all the world but until we get to some kind of for a permit not to be required given the fact that the congress is not at this point going to allow that process to go ahead is that the case i don't think so your honor i do understand that there is political opposition to the idea of for the federal government and we have to figure out a way in the same way we did with the so called compliance commission we have that says you we the congress of the united states have to apply  same laws as everybody else so we have to play by the laws we have to apply by other labor laws and so forth you would have thought that would also apply and i think it does to the environmental laws have a political problem here we can't get around i'm looking for solution if all it does is trigger a local jurisdiction on the federal government to do that's a nonstarter it may be that we have to in fact pass a piece of legislation that says you can continue to use coal  senators say you don't have to but you still have to go through this permit process to reduce as far as possible hazardous materials nothing of kind is being done now mr pugh that's correct nothing is being done nothing of that kind is being done and complying with this permit application process wouldn't necessarily lead to be elimination of coal the clean air act is neutral on how the castle power plant or any other source would reduce its emissions of toxic pollutants  so i'm going to find out following this hearing within thirty days why there's no reply we have to hear from them the architect that is why there is no permit being requested now you say there's no reporting then you say that as well with respect to the hazards air pollutants that's correct but had to this air pollutants you mean what for example well mercury would be a good example what they include and of and the ones that are a particular concern in this city because of the power plant i would say would be mercury and laid in arsenic as well as the ideal it certainly has because we find face amounts of of lead in our children and very disproportionate numbers i don't know what kind of coal the capital power plant uses i think it would be a very interesting question to learn one of the things we have to find out is whether or not we use the cleaner coal or whether we're using  the same old dirty stuff but above all i want to measure what's coming out of that you telling me nobody's measuring it nobody knows nobody's measuring it every view of the capitol power plants permit does not indicate any  urge not provide any information about what is which of these hazards air pollutants is coming out and how much as far as i know there are no requirements that they be tested but it's not impossible to testing their stack tests for a lot of your remedy for this in light of the fact that we are blocked from getting rid of the coal power plants i think given that that's on the table there are ways to reduce the had to do with materials coming from this coal at the power plant i would be i would ask you mr pugh because i believe the speaker the house would be very open to and that implementing at least that remember what we've done with c o two already even though we're getting the  coal very much like to have in writing what you think could be done to reduce the emission that has it is substances which affect mostly children to be frank the older you get the more i mean you are because you think absorbing it all your life emitting hazardous substances i can't provide other examples although i do have a list that i can provide after the meeting i wish i would because you said that there were other fellow facilities there are other federal facilities e p a has provided or has compiled a database of facilities it's easy to isolate the federal facilities on that database all of them that operate boilers such as the boiler that operate at the capital power plant if they run on coal or even if they run on oil or  yes thank you i must depend to so is as helpful as your testimony was i have a hard time with that thousand private coaches i just don't think that we get that many motor coaches but that was a number i mean you know exactly how many prior testimony that fifty spaces are being dedicated for your buses what's wrong with that well that's not quite accurate or maybe fifty spaces over there but some of those are already in contract or some other bus come no there that's true and we'll find out because they testified i thought that there were fifty dedicated spain or maybe for example the marks company which ones gray line marks company so you know you think the fifty means total i think fifteen total awful because my question went to dedicated spaces and they are dedicated for coaches but i believe some of those are already tied up and will be happy to say all of them are already set up because nobody goes up there sees its allotment tied up and again a lot of those a lot of those spaces are for people who are visiting union station at that time when you put into the mail this is a clarification we're going to need to get it all sounds fishy to me frankly that all of a sudden everybody comes and it's all hunky dory and union station is a member of the association or so i'll be glad to contact them to get their number directly thank you i do agree with you that everybody knows everybody on the bus already if there was some way to see you're so that everybody got on that bus was known ahead of time and you could secure that you'd be ahead of the game but your suggestion not sure you heard what the cabbie said they said they already don't have the funds needed they thing to do all the security they need to be done and you want to do a whole lot more security well i appreciate that but i also heard mr mana me say that he needed three point two million dollars for circulator buses and i want to give some of that three point two million for buses that really needed could be dedicated for security and screening well his buses would not just go for coming up here he's trying to deal with tourism in the district of columbia as well and he says that some of these buses will take people essentially drop them off i'm not sure though whether those are the same people that are coming on your buses at all if they dropped them off they probably coming some other some other form and fashion i can tell you with a lot of certainty the circulator buses that are operating today are not moving our passengers that are coming into town those passengers are staying with the vehicle that they came in with when you see them lined up along the streets downtown there waiting for groups coming down i missed the country we know we haven't given you any place to go and no place to hide we also know a lot like you lining out mall and but we haven't given testimony every bit as vital i ask you to submit the the material i have requested i think we can get some action from the speaker who i'm just gone with on a climate change tour on hazardous substances that are infecting could be infecting our children this is one of our main not only climate change but children to have the strain the disturbing mr ben to so you've been left between a rock and a hard place since i was a child you all just come here bring as many people as you can i just found a place to go and hang out with you we don't find you some place and in the district of columbia or close by i want to talk to you about that and i do mean that i'm going to have a problem solving session first with my own folks then i want to meet privately with you and then i want us all to get together