good evening it is august three and we are glad to come back together again to talk about all things holland michigan thank you for coming tonight and for being a part of this public process that we all really appreciate to we can enjoy this in the united states of america it is a good place to be and i would you start by calling the roll bird president  we have many over the years with two items the pledge of allegiance and the opening prayer we will start with the prayer and that will be led by deputy city clerk and a paralysis would you please join us in lord we are meeting today to conduct matters of business guider hearts in our minds in the spirit of fairness right thought and speech impart your supreme wisdom upon or activities so that our affairs conclusion thank you for being our source of guidance today a man plays a legion in the flag of the united states of america thank you and i we would now she will read the consent to gender which is a list of items that have already been approved and will be approved by one motion with council at the end of the list that she reads if however there is one of those items that you came here to address before council then at the end of her reading we will open it up for public comment you may come forward and ask for a particular item to be removed from the agenda and then we will handle it in its sequence as it appears on the agenda you have so in a could you please read the consent agenda item for him to excuse the absence of council member birch for c to accept inviolate cuter those of office from various boards and commissions twelve the want to refer claims filed against the city to the city's insurance carrier and city attorney for consideration twelve e's three point one two approve a revokable license agreements for encroach waived for such locations twelve ethe three point two to approve an agreement for placement of a recognition plaque student art display board and two identification signs for the unity bridge public art project in park subject to city attorney approval and assigned bill of donation item twelve eve four point one to schedule a public hearing to create an industrial development district for property located at nine hundred brooks avenue for wednesday surplus and authorize staff to dispose of the vehicles and a manner that is most advantageous to the city item twelve four point five to prove the you next bid for tulip in flower bulbs at a cost of sixty nine thousand dollars with cost to be allocated between women i haven't gardens parks and recreation budget and tulip time who will reimburse the city for one thousand six hundred seventy seven dollars of the cost twelve four point six to approve a pay pal account to assist a technology services department to dispose of equipment that has been declared surplus utilizing e bay and authorized the city treasurer to sign any documents i don't twelve point seven to approve th traffic control order resolution allowing overnight parking at the electric vehicle charging station located at one twenty seven east eighth street while vehicle is charging twelve east six point three to approve the laws to reflect the following revisions subject to this permission sunsetting in six months permits is sitting in power seaboard representing a city or township to be a member of the executive committee updates the main areas of work and eliminates a position a past chairperson of the executive committee until march of two thousand and seventeen i am twelve east six point six to approve or lease agreement with live near l c to rent a monthly basis for seven parking spaces in the lot seven d and a budget amendment adjustment to the parking budget in the amount of three thousand dollars to cover the costs subject to approval as to form by the city attorney thank you and so as i said we will plan to approve all of those with one motion unless there is something that you would like taken off of that list to be addressed in and in that sequence if so just come to the podium tell us your name and address and which item you would like to speak to santa byrd yes peters lynn yes white men yes yes yes yes madam mayor yes motion passes thank you i was just going to read a proclamation that the council will be proclaiming for you and we want to do that in recognition of your huge career here in the city of holland and really matches the city it's been throughout the whole region you as one individual that as a catalyst for so many other people to come together and enjoy arts and culture and music at a level that had never been done before here and helped us grow so much as a region and i'll just read a little bit of this proclamation whereas we have come together this evening to celebrate the success of the years of mr calvin long ends in our community and whereas for forty of its fifty six years the heart and leadership of the award winning howlin corral has been in the person of mr calvin long ends its founder and calvin long ins also grew the musical education in the area by being instrumental in the founding of the highland symphony and more recently in two thousand the evergreen corral and his lifelong devotion to the arts is evidence to establishing the long running march festival of arts a comprehensive community arts program and under the leap able leadership of mr cowen lanyon the arts have been celebrated amplified and embraced by thousands who have either witnessed or participated in the various presentations and productions and unselfishly has given his time his talents and boundless energy and his vision and dedication to the arts into his community through a variety of art forms that excited and motivated people of all ages to experience the thrill of expression and for his dedication to choral music and for enriching the lives of the community through a broad spectrum of repertoire innovative programming and arts education their bo resolve that i nancy de boer mayor of the city of highland and i behalf of the city council and all highland residents to here by recognizing honor and applied mr calvin long ends for his years of selfless community volunteer ism and ask that all of those here assembled join me in a standing ovation and i honor of mr calvin lanyon a very sincere thank you for a job well done thank you very much nancy some of you are recognizing back with me when we were doing a lot of the stuff she referred to we've had some wonderful great times and i must say that the person who benefited the most from all this as myself a  long ways and it's hard for me to believe but certainly do appreciate it very much for nancy and for everyone thank you very much know i guess is really obvious to all of us that things don't happen automatically that it always takes people to be involved and to care beyond themselves to make things happen and that's what cal has done in that world of arts and music to bring international figures to holland and bring all different schools together and help all of us raise the level of music and arts education and today we're also talking about and it is a beautiful piece of property the council voted quite a while ago to acquire that entire black in order to preserve that history and we're so thankful that it had been kept intact and that we do really still have that house and those two barns and that we can have a historic designation and make those better but they haven't been looking very good yes we're out to change that and carolina mark was i don't know you are that committee in one house absolutely and that's what makes all the difference when we can have people that are a catalyst and people that are willing to give of themselves and in their expertise to make that house so much better and carolina and i and john schultz from out of a county park system and in the canyon went there for lunch i could not believe how much better it looks thank you so much that pink woodwork is no longer there i don't know what the inspiration was for it but and the beautiful authentic type of wallpaper and the appropriate colors and all of that working  together makes such a difference and it is just wonderful in our eighth year of the civil war muster when people come here dressed in their wool no matter what the temperature and i did have an authentic experience the farm and they keep asking can we please see the house and now we've restored the porch and we're working on the inside and we just want to thank you so much and carolina maybe you would like to introduce these fine people that are with us can you come to them so people at home can ok now with the with the historic part she is a has a passionate love of history property and county locker at the museum helped me as well but the minute i told her about the project she said all of this is what i love to do and i'll be right there with you and then we began to pick out the paint colors and we all got very excited about them and they started to look good and then we decided wallpaper would be nice because the turn of the century people love to decorate their homes with very ornate wallpaper and so she helped me pick that out in this very nice gentleman dan hanson from repco light said will be happy to donate that and it was such a wonderful bonus that we thought this is what we want we want the community to get involved and see how the tiny little thing could do to help us out and so here they are you've now decided we need to recognize this and so here we are great so we have friends of an royalty farm and we hope that this is the first of many framed thank you's that the city of holland can give out to those who really care and help us with the then reality farm and it's restoration and the house and the barn so thank you so much dan for being here on behalf of ok now we're on to special order of the day the industrial development district ryan you talked about the bat thank you this is a public hearing tonight for the city council to hold related to possible investment dust real development district at two a t m one three ten east sixty fourth street this property is located just southeast of the airport you can see how lincoln avenue curves going around the airport runway and this property is at the southeast corner of sixty fourth and lincoln actually two ownerships one by men leah holdings and one by close to holding holdings in their eleven thousand acres respectively in size the intent is eventually have an industrial development tax exemption requests for this property but the district comes first and the intent is to have a three point three million  dollar investment that would create twenty jobs so tonight's public hearing is to determine whether you would like to establish the stix church there is a resolution attached after the hearing the council's recommended  to act on the attached resolution to create an industrial district for the proper located two eighty three ten east sixty fourth street thank you ryan so we have a public hearing for a public hearing if anyone is here to address this issue you're welcome to come to the podium give us your name and address and what you would like to say about this good evening i'm roger block amp with holdings and we're looking at bill in a forty thousand square foot manufacturing and we're also facility on this property if any of you are familiar with this property has been sitting idle for many many years and so anyhow it's finally going to be occupied by two different the property split up by two different businesses so i think it will be a big plus and we're looking for  tax abatement at some point when we get going on our buildings so that's what i would like to get this district extrapolation you know with any questions you're welcome to ask them and questions thank you roger thank you for being here any other comments for this public hearing if that will close the public hearing and will open for discussion with counsel any comments on to public comment which is a time that anyone who is here to talk about any subject you like that's not also featured later in the agenda you may come forward and give us whatever you'd like to say you have five minutes i'm just here to one thank you city of holland marin city council for your partnership with the alley of connection also yeah i'm here to talk to you about escape itself a lot of people doesn't really don't understand exactly what what escape is and what it has done and helping with the community so i just want to be real little bit of statistics of what we've done in just this year and two thousand sixteen and two thousand stick saying we have twenty seven young men get out of the gangs this year and we have nineteen young men and women that we have put into job corps ask a pass help to kids get into the military we are working w seventeen young people this in a juvenile detention center that is actually out and working and to holly's connection to actually pay for their fines and costs so they won't end up going back into the juvenile detention center because of lack of payment or being able to are allowed by the school to educate the kids and they get babies every ten in their credit so when they get out of escape they actually go back to school and the last four years we have sent back over three hundred eighty seven kids what a book of c average for undocumented youth have now given forty seven young kids this year to year work visas to now be able to work in our community escape has relocated forty seven homeless youth this year twenty seven homeless people that was living in a tent city in a back of the wooded area and sixteen families are no longer homeless from that group escape as seven different work with seven different organizations twelve different non profits and seven different churches escape recently has worked with eight different probation officers six in holland and two in allegheny county just this year with the hauling of connection these are a serious issues that was brought to us working with the kids this year i understand that because of low funding this year as holly of connection could not did not have enough funds to employ all of the students was only able to employ seventy six students with over two hundred kids on a waiting list to actually work and this week in this year of working we have found two kids was beaten by their father one young young lady was molested by a family friend three kids were families would put in jail and they became homeless and moved around from house to house and couch to couch two young man was beaten by the gangs because they was wanted to get out of the gangs because there was work with the hollies connection one young young one young woman young lady came to us and told us that she was actually pregnant she was only fourteen years old three kids was kicked out of their homes one was fifteen and two was sixteen one young man because of the lack of funding that we had to we had the time close our gym that young man was the one who was stabbed and killed we also have twelve families that came to us in need that we could not feed we have thirteen twelve kids that living on our own five one live in a hotel b with this escape that's received the lowest funding this year over fifty percent and less funding there has been an outpouring from the community to help us keep our doors open to help us serve these kids these kids that promise they're not at risk their promise because if this city and this community supports us and help us do what we can do to make this city better and greater and have more unity these kids could survive these kids will make it so i'm here to invite each and every one of you to a meeting that we're having a prayer meeting that's happening on the fifteenth at six o'clock at escape at all to use thirty second street and ready sale servants of one north melodrama kind of ironic i have never shown a pure tell about two weeks ago through three meetings ago and here i am again this time something way different i don't know willy he doesn't know me  i read the article about their funding issue i am a community services officer with the elegant county sheriff's department retired part time but still with the department  reading that article i have what i do at the l a county sheriff i take up what they call the chain gang guys guys get out of jail for a day to get out to work mr peters probably saw me lad this weekend at the elegant county fairgrounds with a crew i really had no intentions of coming here but i'm glad i did one of the young men in that crew and i'm not going to say his name i'm not even that will you know who it is i brought up issues this young man that's in the allegheny county jail now for a series charges on network who he said you know about escape ministries and i says very little he says man i wished i had listened to willie he went through the program he played the game as he called it and he made bad choices have for the program now he's back in jail serving eighteen months so like i say i don't know willie i don't know anybody on the board all i know is what happened to me in the last three weeks talking with this trustee and this were crew that i see that i take care of so if there's any way possible for the citizens of holland anybody in the counties if we can find more funding for this program please i'm seeing the results where a person's gone through it went bad but but the big key was he said why didn't i listen to will so i thank you for your time i'm offering prayers up to every one of you to see if we can get some more funding and good luck to escape ministries thank you thank you  yes it is arriving and members the city council the seeding council is being asked to hold what's called a second reading and public hearing regarding a proposed tax abatements to our zoning ordinance that's going to create regulations currently the use of a residential unit as a short term rental or a vacation rental or an air b n b is illegal in the city of holland last fall we had several property owners approach council a planning commission and staff and said hey is there a way city can come up with some ordinances to allow us to do this but do in a such a manner that you know we are negative impact in our residential neighborhoods over the course of the winter months and summer months the neighborhood improvement committee the planning commission and city council each held what i would call study sessions on this item the planning commission created a subcommittee to look at this and then over the summer months they drafted an ordinance that is in front of council tonight hoping to be approved so we can allow for this you know these uses to be legally operating in our neighborhoods the ordinance or front of you really addresses two types of residential properties the first one is an owner occupied homes and the proposed ordinance would allow a homeowner to rent a room in their home three hundred sixty five days a year or allow a homeowner to rent the entire home sixty days a year if they meet certain standards and i want to go through those certain standards for those in the audience or those watching at home first thing is the property would have to be listed as one hundred percent p r e a principal residential exemption this is a process through the city assessor more or less and layman terms means that houses owner occupied that's your house it's your main place where you live you lay your head down raise your family etc the owner will have to obtain a special exemption from the zoning board of appeals to you know become a short term rental the owner or have to obtain and maintain a public lodging license under chapter twenty six the owner can't have any other ownership interest in any other residential property that as you are also considered a short term rental we're not looking to create little well you know short term mental chains you know in our neighborhoods this is really just a benefit you know single homeowners there has to be at least one independent parking space assigned to the short term rental we're hoping not to create any kind of parking issues in the neighborhoods you know through this process the short term rental has to be registered with the city of holl and the proof of that registration has to be listed on all advertisements of the short term rental this does two things it helps that if we have to investigate you know short term rentals identify the ones that are legal and the ones that are not legal it also protects you know visitors who might be renting or looking to utilize one of these short term metals as a place to stay when they visit us they will have the comfort of knowing it's a legit place to go the owner has to agree and does pay the holland convention visitor and bureau fees all local motels and hotels to them all and c v be all in c v b uses that money to buy air time by billboards market the property owner has to have insurance that allows for and covers short term rental use and our research into air b n b vacation rental by owners short term rentals we found out that this is one of the pickups yes you know air b n b does have that million dollar policy to cover your home if the tenant does some kind of damage to the house however if there's damage done to your house and it was an electrical fire not caused by the ten that policy doesn't cover it and then if your homeowners policy finds out that you're used as a short term rental your homeowner's policy may not cover it so we could be in a situation where we have houses  guards to this as i mentioned earlier there are two classifications of properties i just went over the owner occupied portion the next thing the planning commission is recommending is what if we allowed non owner occupied homes and certain commercial zones unplanned residential districts to be allowed to as short term rentals the way the planning commission is recommending this is that the non own occupied homes in c one c two c three there are typical commercial zoning districts are planned residential development district or a planned unit zoning district they would be allowed to rent the entire home three hundred sixty five days a year they again would have to receive a special exception from the z b a they will have to obtain a public lodging license under chapter twenty six they can't have any ownership interest in another short term rental in the city of holland there has to be at least one independent parking space rental has to be registered with the city again they have to show proof of that registration on their no advertisements again the owner have to pay the b fees and they were also have to have insurance that allows foreign coverage short term rental use so the recommendation from the planning commission is the only text amendments they're both covered in chapter thirty nine section four  study session last week there were some comments and council members regarding what's on the screen right now the allowing short term rentals and you know the commercials  after talking with the city attorney and had made this clear in the report that was submitted party or packet you do have the right to well i would phrase as pared down the recommendation so if you're comfortable in moving forward with the owner occupied but you're not comfortable moving forward with a non owner occupied you can approve just one part of that ordinance i did want to make that clear you know tonight from the council again that's the summary of the ordinance i'm here for questions it does require a public hearing on this one yes type joel as it relates to registering with the it's an agreement that the c b has with each lodging institution they have the way it was explained to me as they have an account that you know looks at the books and says this is what your fee is and if you choose not to pay it they just take you off their list of hotels so someone is searching the holland org site then they don't know that promoted you know through their site or they currently promoting this type of short term they used to when talking with sally they used to have an agreement and i forget the name but there's some kind of cottage association that y market and rent out people's summer cottages like a membership kind of a saying they used have an agreement with them but i believe they don't do that agreement anymore and the way we envision this working here is when you come into the the third floor and you start the process of going to the zoning board or appeals we envision you're going to show us some kind of memorandum of understanding that the property owner has with the c v be that both sally and  property owner signed off that said yeah this property owner is legit i don't envision third for staff inspection staff auditing you know these properties you know kyron or forensic accountant or something to go through their stuff to make actually pain that we were going to rely on the c v b to tell us yeah they're good or no we have an issue here ok more questions that particular portion of the ordinance i know a lot of times you and mark when you're putting this stuff together you're you're looking at ordinance that maybe somebody else has already done another community or whatever do we see that as a common practice in those sample ordinances that we maybe looked at so to a degree yes a lot of the ordinances that we looked at unfortunately we're larger cities cities that have hotel taxes yeah and it's the miss a pallet you that collects that tax and so a lot of the ordinances we saw were yeah you can do this homeless not occupy you to a little bit of what was rejected for sure so the ordinance that the the draft ordinance that staff put together and we sent to the planning commission for their review so the process for already says staff writes the ordinance planning commission reviews it and then they forwarded on the city council when it's at the planning commission level they're the only body that can recommend is only ordinance to city council staff can't bypass so when we sent the ordinance to the planning commission there there were at that time three property because of occasions and the third one that i believe you know a council member kampar and just referring to was not an owner occupied home and zoning districts and what that would do is that would allow you know any house any neighborhood whether its owner occupied or not and it would allow  the the condition be an add on there so you see all these standards we had a final standard down here that mentioned that we wanted a five hundred foot separation between these type of short term rentals planning commission when they discuss this they have a desire to protect the integrity of residential neighborhoods they are not comfortable recommending ordinances that may reduce the availability of homes to households whether it's owner occupied houses rental houses they're not worried about that they just want to make sure that they don't send an ordinance up that reduces the availability of homes to households so their concern and the reason they chose to take that off was there's this idea out there there's a theory that these short term rentals are profitable and if we just allow them to operate in the neighborhoods you know that five hundred foot separation there is this concern that once they go this way there is a short term rental especially in a community like holland it's going to be very hard for that structure ever to become a home available the household to get it will always remain as a short term rental  joy i think your explanation was excellent a couple of things i would like to think about with the short term rental over is city of holland has become a destination for tourists and for business and i think if you've been to town of all this summer you've seen more activity downtown holland than i've ever seen before we as a city you have not been afraid to stretch ourselves would be getting  would be digging the channel to lake michigan if it be building downtown we have tried to be on the cutting edge of things i would hate to see holland become overly protective in this particular area where it seems that most cities have been willing to move ahead and have brunch at places like this and nashville than gulf shores in florida a couple places and i think those are always a possibility but they appeared to be somewhat a billion already the other thing thing has been well this is a way to make a lot of money in a hurry what's wrong  making a little money that's what the real estate is about realty is trying to make money the banks are making money under real estate even the city of holland makes money when property is sold at a higher level that's just part of the way it goes businesses are involved and some a lot of people work out of their homes and have businesses with the internet daycare there's all kinds of things that happen through these things i guess that what i would like to see is a little bit more open honest willing to try it for a year allow some people to do this maybe three to five people tried if they wanted to do go through the hoops and with the sunset position let's see if it works or doesn't work let's be willing to try something be a little innovative wasn't too many years ago the city fell and would not allow you to eat on the sidewalk and bring out something where you could meal there we've changed that you know it's a great thing we've got it got to get out of this mentality that we can do what i think we can do it i think it makes sense i think we've got to be a little bit more quick progressive i'd like to see staff take another look at this see if they can come up with a years proposal and try something and see if it works or doesn't work you know like a neighborhood you and i live in their own house they didn't live it but they rented wanted to rent it out on a short term basis my understanding is that that would be allowable if they group were granted to the exception by the zoning board of appeals following whitney of criteria my understanding that correctly all right apologize if i hear you correctly you're saying that as a states right allow use for short term rental if there are a number of other things are falling so reading that leads me to the conclusion that it would be possible so i'm i'm not yet on that ending and now that ron correct me if i miss word or doesn't follow districts it has to satisfy both of those so it has to be located in one of those and so maybe the only major producers inspectors in force we understand that i can understand how maybe the general public would find some confusion in that one psychologist for that yes you know i would just read after the word unless i would just i could jump right to section b and would make perfect sense to me so you know yeah so under the ordinance someone who holds a house a few blocks away from me wants to rent it out to for a week or two to visiting people or a visiting professor or whatever they can do that and except for the twenty day rule that was tied to the old right what we would call in city hall the tool time probably on twenty days yeah ok thank you for challenging yeah no problem thank you for the test  under these ordinance adjustments here what is your inspection critter so the inspection criteria will be the same as it is with all special exception we receive special exception requests for a variety of things up stairs so the approval process is the same the inspection on the public lodging license it is our office that's the inspector of public logic as an annual process that we would have to go out and do this inspection we do that right now for all current hotels motels and we really partner with the fire department on a lot of those inspection procedures you know for what i'm going to call the ones we never have issues with if they're ones we have issues with then it will be you know it will be some work on the flip side of that because in the inspections that we've had this discussion up stairs without this ordinance there's still a level of inspections that have to happen because it's an illegal zoning operation right now and we can't look you know we can't turn a blind eye if we know a property is violating our zoning ordinance cell this will be a little bit more inspection than what we currently are doing right now trying to enforce his own ordinance but in the long run when these get up and running then we're not having issues review some of these properties could become like the hotels that we don't have issues with you know the ones downtown the hayward center the hope college dorms and stuff that we have to inspect as well  increase but it's something that you know as staff we have to absorb it we have to plan for it we can't base a recommendation on a policy to be plenty commission because we don't want to do the extra work and i know that probably rubs some people the wrong way but it's where we're standing the staff upstairs question isn't necessarily are you willing or not if you have enough staff to be able to do this because of the potential exponential rise in inspections that you're going to have to have how often are these inspections done the inspections are done and a later part of the public lodging license process that the clerk's office really starts with i believe that's in april typically in april is when we do that so we will be you know i'm always going to say we have staff to get it done but with my state the inspectors are here they might be saying something differently so and as we done the research just look on air b n b right now i think we're talking about fifteen to twenty properties at the most that we see listed out there this isn't the all the forty five hundred rental units we have right now in the city  the other comments now did you say this is a public hearing tell yes it's a second here it's a second reading as only ordinance you have i believe we have public hearing well thank you have to have a public hearing on this one all right so we are open for a public hearing would anyone here like to speak to this issue we are closing the public hearing because no one wants to speak to this issue ok so counsel what is your so wayne i have a lot of the appreciation for the points you brought up in terms of you know we first started this discussion i got a number of phone calls back last fall when we had neighbors come in and  share some of their disappointment around the fact that they were being told they couldn't participate in air b n b and having also participate in them before in terms of running went out of this kind of idea what why don't we have this is a perfect community to execute these and to make these real but kind of since then as some of the short term rental in terms of a vacation rental by owner has been around for a long time so as information's been coming in some of the unintended consequences have popped up and that's where a lot of this conversation is has been leading how do we get out in front of instead of playing from behind and so one of the things that's happened seemingly a a great tool having the ability to get out of town for the weekend and rent your house out unfortunately has turned into a number of communities some of the concerns that we have talked about in this council since i've been on about venture capitalist people coming in and purchasing homes  and renting out in the hope college neighborhoods as we talked about and how that's led to some of the change in what that landscape looks like in what this leads to is in economic tool in some instances where people go in and buy these houses can rent them out for two weeks out of a month and make more than they were making running the house out full time i think one of the comments that came out of the planning commission was amy in the central team has done housing in the area and this ends of limiting in some instances even the ability to have rental homes and affordable rental homes in neighborhoods because somebody can come in and rented out for a shorter period of time so i think joel and team you've done a good job here of kind of saying how can we have something in place that allows us to to get our feet wet and protect us but also prevent some of those things that we're not really sure how they're going to roll out long term and i think it could lead to potentially down the road creating opportunities to say you know what made maybe there is a different way to approach it but we do have the the locations of the sea once you do see three where you can have a owner occupied house rented out and make money run a business that way but it's in a location that's conducive to that in terms of other businesses traffic people that are moving around and i think this is really kind of a good place to start that balances the need for it and the ability of those individuals to then go out and make money but also protects kind of our available household stock in neighborhoods not just owner occupied but long term rentals as well in terms of people that want to want to get started in a rental capacity in a home not necessarily just an apartment complex will agree in spirit a lot when with kind of where your heart's in terms of how do we how do we get out in front of this and drive it but but also i think this is kind of a good first step allowing us to kind of get our feet wet but responsibly know i would agree with a lot of what brother lynn just said what i think this does is is again it's a it's a nice first step but i think it also strikes a balance i think what we've been trying to get around with this is how do we permit it without kind of really kind of putting imbalance in some of the other community or neighborhood priority areas that have been on the radar for staff and council for a long time i think this is a pretty good first step but it allowing this in a very modest way the the one disconnect i have with this and it may be overcome a well i don't know again all of this kind of really feels like hey you know what we're we're trying to take an increment here a nd keep things in balance allow for it but yet not have it run rampant and to some degree not be a professional enterprise thing happening in our neighborhoods which i'm good with v part is a disconnect for me c b s are about hoteliers and marketing and cetera et cetera that seems to be a little bit in can groom with what we're talking about in terms of an increment in a baby step it doesn't make much sense to me to say ok we want an increment but yet we're going to require people to engage in a marketing practice  so i'm just trying to find a balance there if that one doesn't make much sense to me as far as making that a requirement asking folks to to engage in a marketing practice and so that's just a couple  points on that for now and we'll see where that discussion  that they will i can take advantage of their marketing and i'll be on their website when somebody queues it up but if i don't do that the c v be just says we're not you go about your business we're not going to we're not going to advertise for you in the explained to me when i talked to sally about this because we had a long discussion on how do you collect your fees because there's not the out you don't see a sales tax on it and it's a direct one on one relationship that she has with each of the hotel heiress or you know those businesses i can see the the bed and breakfast folk who this feels a little closer to a bed and breakfast in their record so i can kind of if they want the benefit of doing it right where they're no mandatory anything here if your business person you want to be part of a chamber or that you take it you pay them that's what you do but if you don't you don't you can still go about your business i think if that's the case like i i can be comfortable with that however the way this in terms of if this is going to happen right it takes as zoning board of appeals process yes and so the way be reads and joe you correct me if i'm wrong then ron's got great experience in those meetings as well but basically when you're asking first bestial exemption you know as a homeowner a property owner you've got to you've got to take some boxes before that group's going to say yes to you ok almost in every situation whatsoever and so the way this reads now is that zoning port of peel's may grant that special exception and then it goes into it boom boom boom boom and down the list is they may grant that exception to g peters if this may be a marketing avenue to to you as a short term rental person and so be it but the way it reads right now in the board appeals will approach that as that person has to cross those hurdles before they can know you have show proof of that and that's right you mentioned earlier i envision that being an agreement a memorandum of understanding between the c v and the property owner and they just you know that's part of the packet of information they submit to for that approval and again in that particular moment then you know they're getting engaged in that marketing practice and so again if the idea is to going to have an incremental pick up here and some limitation  deference to neighborhoods that would just seems to be a little disjointed from the other stuff trying  i'm sure the perspective of the c b is that they provide all the marketing for the tourism of the city and they charge that to the other places that are housing tourists actual so if another entity can benefit from all of that and just make that pay to light that doesn't seem fair and i'm sure it makes the hotel nervous to have the competition of the home that is assessed the same way the hotel is kind of and i should i should point out just to councils which have all the cards in front of us we did hear from a handful of the property owners that want to be short term rentals not here to protect anybody's pocketbook if you will or are there percentage of rands again if we're looking at incremental steps here and everything else in this is that we're really this is our first baby step we're trying this out to add that in which is an encouragement then for those that want to try this out too and i mean again the c b is about and i would agree with you is far is their perspective that they are the marketing arm of tourism but the reality is that's for full fully commercialised enterprises whereas this is not that nor do i get the impression that we're trying to encourage fully commercialised enterprises of principal residence exemption homes and so it just that's the one sliver of it seems to be of that place here from so what you just said is probably one of my big stumbling blocks i don't see how we can not see this as a business of this is not before it was said earlier we've got to be thinking outside the box well i'm i'm i'm thinking outside the box and then we have a number of different zoning designation specifically because people want to live in different areas that's why we have the ours that's why we have the seas that's why you have the the other side of me is personal property rights that's where i'm struggling in this whole thing the point of my questions earlier in the enjoyable i'm going to go into this just very very briefly but if somebody comes to you for an inspection and says they're going to do one room what do you inspect ordinance last month we will be checking the area that they would like to utilize as well as all publicly accessible parts of that operation that's more than just that room there's a bathroom there's a hallway there's a kitchen you know major components of electrical and furnace you know is the process that when we just gusted up stairs on how we would be going through this we want to be the it's a seven bedroom house where we look at the publicly accessible areas and the room they're going to be doing however the ordinance also allows that sixty day set up where they haven't the entire house sell we probably you know as i'm thinking on the fly here we probably would be doing a whole house inspection some of their rental inspections because we do have that sixty day thing that just popped right back in my head it's more than just that one room which kitchen of her one you know my problem with this whole thing is is if it looks like a business it smells like a business place like a business it's a business why do we have two different levels we have what you're trying to what you're attempting to do here is bringing these places under the auspices of the lodging license which i appreciate to me that is not separat for the owner occupied they're coming in and wanting to rent the one room and also with your catch in there for the sixty days as long as the full inspection because we are dealing with john q public in these places of let's not forget that we have the responsibility is the city to make sure that john q public is protected the health the safety and the welfare and whatever that takes we need to be enforcing those rules and laws that's my primary goal my primary concern i cannot in good conscience and i'm glad you brought it up go into the short term on the not accurate non owner occupied homes more than the commercial district or not i just simply can't do that those places were purchased specifically as investment properties this shouldn't be treated any differently than any other hotel motel boarding home whatever name you want to place on it we've got sixteen different levels of somebody can sleep in your house either for a night or for a year we're going to get in trouble so after the discussion is done there's going to be a procedural question to mister vanderveen on how to handle that but i'm i'm trippin my cards here already and what i'm going to do so i think about your answer folks i just  this is a tough one i understand we're residents were a vacation destination we need to be open we need to to allow some of these things but then and i'm not going to cry wolf the sky is falling and all this other stuff but let's just write the r one does it nations then they're going away we're going to have nothing but a total commercial property in the city  where miles that way though i don't want to live here that that's not what i that's not what i've been here for the last sixty years now that i've upset everybody in this part that deals with the largo occupied and she used to be addressing the air b n b type situation is from what i mean i'm fine with was what's being proposed here what i've find i'm get stuck on a little bit isn't i like you or occupied portion of this and and as i say that i can appreciate the opposite side of my thinking quite well what you're you know if for example in my neighborhood or joel's neighborhood if someone older property it want to rent it out for a week for reasons i've cited previously you know someone wants to experience holiday for a week or two or or someone's here and short term they need a place to live we don't live in a hotel there are a myriad of reasons why someone would want to rent a house for a short period of time and valid reasons  can appreciate also the thinking of the planning commission and trying to maintain a certain character of the community in trying to maintain availability of houses for rentals i can think of the worst possible manifestation of what that would look like i'm sure there are instances that come to our minds in the past of a bad experiences that way but the reason that i hesitant about this is that in for example the a new urbanists philosophy that philosophy states that that viable neighborhoods i will communities function well functioning communities are combination of a variety of things there a combination of a socio economic houses in families you have rich people living next to blue collar people living next to  bore people and they have an effect on each other a positive something is a positive effect on each other the same thing is true according to this philosophy i want to comes to housing stock you have larger more expensive housing next to more modest housing and the subsidy is that you have several uses in cost proximity to each other to within reason  so the problem i guess also to lies in how much of this do you allow you know if you have allow a similar scenario that we're experiencing now with rental properties where in some places you have a very high concentration of it that's not really what you want to have because of violates what i was just talking about so long the short of it is i think there's a place to allow a certain amount of non occupied short term rentals what exactly that magic number is i'm afraid i don't have that number because i'm not sure but i think and this goes to some wings comments i think with some further discussion and thinking  we could come up with a buyable starting point not you know not the perfect end which we never achieve when we start out of these sorts of things you say we're sort of throwing a lot against a wall see where it's going to stick and see what happens if it's a false one but i think not and allowing that opportunity to be part of this consideration sell short an opportunity that is real that is necessary that would serve the needs of a number of individuals as well as families and address the toll on the total need of this community t if that was out there comes up mike your concern with non owner occupied his or safety concerns primarily and the turning into  allowed to operate wherever as well is that they're kind of the heart of what you're getting as well as that there's a need for that what that exactly looks like on sure but just that not owner occupied houses should be allowed to participate in some capacity to shining sea that's where we are yes michael then my procedural question i think i know the answer to this but there would have to be a formal amendment to the motion to strike any part of it or to modify it  any way shape or form yes and if i could just answer it is sort of three parts because there's been discussion here about this further discussion to that would take a motion of their motion to table which would take precedence and then you could  discuss it later there was a mention of a sunset clause be an added to it as well that becomes a problem of the zoning ordinance because you create non conforming use right second continue after the sunset but to get specifically to your request about amending it we have a motion to adapt it as proposed so there are three sections thirty nine dash two would be amended thirty nine for five point one would be added and thirty nine all five point two would be added to the organs code if you wanted to strike any part of those three you could do a motion to amend the motion to to  strike section thirty nine for a five point two for example i think that was the section you were talking about the nine owner occupied tad i'd like to offer an amendment if you're ok in terms of where we're at with discussion ok so we don't have to vote on the amend the motion that's been already seconded we can amanda before we vote on it yeah there could be a motion to end and then that motion to amend has to be voted on first  the c b portion specifically to thirty section thirty nine four zero five that are point one only point one the only of the owner occupied portion of this at this  point because quite frankly i can see that fitting in in the nine owner occupied herschel districts where those are in essence enterprises but in the owner occupied for thirty nine dash four or five point one  my amendment would be to strike a section either there relative to the c b fees and assessments is that clear enough for you ron  joel i been in communication with sally who it is from the convention visitors bureau and she says under the public act by which they receive their funding a transplant lodging property has to have ten rooms to be part of an assessment district so not under this current public act can they assess anything by it as far as she's understands it and she says it's being looked at and a national level by many communities in c so i don't know what that means with where we are i would offer for city council i would advise i would offer the c v and that lodging fee is between the c v the law g p and city council is not a party doesn't in essence have a clause that says you must it's rather a public act of the state of michigan that says the c b p can assess adopt a marketing plan and can assess the transit facilities i think is the term used a fee an assessment up to five percent i believe of revenue it can be less than that of course to you and if you fall within that category or transit facilities i'm not sure i get that exactly right but you fall within the category those facilities then you have to pay and there's pretty strict penalties if you don't if you're not in that category and to get in that category you have to have ten units if you're not in that category you can agree to participate and pay the fee so that that would be a possibility and that's probably where this came from  i'm making a little bit of assumption that that's the statute that they're operating under i can't tell you for sure that there's not another statute that the ok so basically we're just going to stay with what's been of this ordinance as i understand it is our attempted having an incremental movement into allowing for this without it being in essence the commercial type enterprise that disrupts any given neighborhood again we've it seems like we've gone well out of our way to craft this in take the time to craft that very deliberately for that purpose and so then again going through all of that then to have in the owner occupied section basically where we're not necessarily wanting these to turn into full fledged enterprises we're saying we're going to mandate for you to get the exception this little piece where you actually act as a as more of a hotel here lodging enterprise seems to be a disconnect i can see it fitting in the non owner occupied spaces where we're trying to say ok all the commercial districts in other districts you know that section i can see that fitting in because that's going to be more of somebody further take on the character of a full fledged business or disruptive yeah and he again it's not really about whether an owner's paying a fee or not in my mind it's whether we're in you know to some degree we're inadvertently encouraging them to engaging in an additional marketing practice when indeed you know these and again i'm thinking of that person that wants to do this on a moment infrequent basis you know they're left to air b n b or b o and they've got to get kind of go out of their way and create their own marketing if you will and it's not a full fledged thing as much as it's just somebody saying you know what either i'm lonely or i've got a little space or whatever it is that motivates them to do it rather than kind of go full fledged commercialized enterprise less  thank you yeah thank you i have a question mike run is this not akin to because the c b b is not a task be taxing jurisdiction is this not in essence a tax because the it's the assessment is is referred to the statute as an assessment stomach different than a tax it raises revenue off but off only off a specific property and i wouldn't say it's a tax now but under your explanation they have to meet certain criteria these types of of lodgings do not meet that criteria how can we enforce the revenue to somebody else is the way i'm seeing this the revenue is just one part of the convention bureau program but used to fund the convention bureau that's that's a good question that we haven't looked at that question up to this point i'm not saying that they don't have to run i yeah i fully understand that but yeah i just we're it's a condition of license it's not voluntary i don't know what other parts of the convention bureau the program would would apply if there are any parts that if it's just a marketing and air force and someone in the specific into a specific marketing if there are other parts of the program that that apply that that would benefit the public that it would use these that would be a little different story i have read i don't know the answer i don't know the convention rules that well i just i've had litigation over the fees in the past the soul your questions about it for enforcement right exactly and so the way it's written now it's a condition of approval and so you wouldn't call it enforcement but rather a condition of licensing now because  the licensing will follow in essence what the property is blessed to do and so usage if you will use of the property so when you're in the board of appeals environment it's in and that's why ron brings up kind of the sunset portion because what you say yes this property can and then you sunset something it doesn't matter whether we sunset the ordinance in the never continues to exist that property has now been blessed to use that way and it only loses that opportunity once it comes out of compliance and so there's it's just a nuance if you will and so it's again it's not the major reason i suggest that we take it out of the not the owner occupied side but  again in a roundabout way mike i think you're right it's not a tax it's an assessment much in the same way that certain things we don't tax for certain things here at city hall we assess for that and so but it's still a pay to play if you will i cannot think of any other  i'm sorry speak she didn't recognize me i can't think of any other ordinance any of the policy that we have around here save for state law such as liquor license  i can't think of any other except for something that we have no control over such as the liquor license such as the food inspection license this would be the first it just and again i'm not denying the c b what they're trying to do that's not the point do we want to start getting into the business of living fines as a condition of doing this right a slippery  so just a point of clarification so what the amendment we're voting on right coming up in just a minute who would be approving the amendment but then we would necessarily be approving the whole thing then we would have  discussion on that as an amendment is that not correct correct if you you would be amending the the motion to adopt the ordinance by by eliminating the sub her graph ephraim from thirty nine forty five and then you be back to discussing the adoption of the ordinance without that sub aircraft thanks gary ready to vote on that after that great clarification peters yes then yes white man yes yes byrd yes yes that amendment would read to strike section thirty nine dash four five point two which reads the short term rental for warming but i can't say that  illegal in the city of holland periods so defaults to the original at default on owner occupied rentals would still be illegal and the city of holland they would be zoning violations and we so everyone anyone else want to talk pare down the ordinance so that the then you'll be back to discussing adopting the ordinance but it pared down to only a lot are only included the adoption of the amendment to the definitions and thirty nine dash two and the addition of thirty nine dash for  occupied short term rentals allowed in the city of highland whether in commercial or anywhere that without saying yet this wouldn't then you would not have the section authorizing the short term rentals in for residential property in the districts are specified commercial districts planning commission allow that so there would be some places that would still be legal but this would take it out ok right any further discussion and i could you please call the  so this conversation is going on a long time it's been good my time and now would be support this and then request that we would put the conversation about nona  upcoming relatively soon study session for us to have more conversation about to to nail down that component so that would be my comment all right good so we have do we have a motion and a second on this part ron we do i believe we do america clarify it with the quote but i think that's where we started this it makes me feel good when even the attorney has it has for clarification ok that's great all right and i everyone is ok with calling the roll at this point no more discussion all right in a place ok white m bonds which is something called a notice of intent resolution and that is attached to the council package tonight this is not obligate council to issue the bonds but triggers a right of referendum period for person s opposed to the issues of the bonds and it sets forth publication requirements and bonds cannot be issued until this process and in this time period passes the resolution laws for eleven million dollars of bonds to issued specifically stating that ten million applies to the civic center project consistent with a july sixth resolution approved by the council it also allows for an additional one million that could be used either for tulip time office space construction in the building which to be pared back to the city over a twenty year term lease or a million could be used to pay for the extension of snow melt mains on ninth street which loop over to eighth street this will allow the city of holland to take full advantage of the eleven million dollars qualified in g conservation mondale occasion that the state of michigan allocated for this project so  further state that is not necessary to issue the full of million eleven million of debt if we approve the resolution but it does allow the city to issue up to that amount should the city choose to do so in a future conversation space in the civic center so this money the extra million dollars would most likely be utilized for extension of snow melt means and transmission lines along ninth street that eventually loop back over the street mains about that our motion motion to adopt a recommendation the other discussion mike it was stated very clearly that the there would be no co mingling of this money other than for the state purposes that is part of the report we said i think we spoke very clearly as a council back on the sixth that we were all in agreement about but i think we spoke very clearly on that the ten million would go toward the civic center the one million would i'm glad it's in the report and for that reason i can support this thank you mike any other comments yes wayne i'm going to support this i think originally i always like to have the people vote on things when you're talking about ten million dollars but i'm confident that the proposal for the civic center is well thought out and if we can get this amount of money for better hopefully about a one percent cost to the city over twenty years i think it does make sense to move ahead with this particular project at this time thank you wayne any other c meeting the specifications for the bed and the two other bidders were the unix that i mentioned and route which was the low better at sixty four thousand eight hundred sixty four dollars unix was the high better at sixty one thousand nine hundred dollars also discussed earlier tonight were our reasons as a staff for recommending recommending to the highest bidder for this particular bid as you know it's a very important part of what we do especially at two time and last year we had a first time bidder and we had some pretty monumental problems with some of the bulbs that were delivered to us staff is very hesitant to go with another new better for such an important part of our city's culture and the festival or very comfortable with unix and we've done business with them for many years the last two years they have not been the little better but the previous i believe seven or eight years they have been a little better so we're recommending to go with with you next and i'd be happy to talk about this and discuss and answer any questions any questions for comments mike and i we had some discussion of stairs i'm going to try to just for the public's information and public's knowledge i'm going to react to a couple of the questions ok the first one being is is the fungus that affected us last year unfortunately in the basically the winter when the waterfront probably hit us the hardest is it possible that that could also have affected the unix  it could have or john deere lands or any other vendor at that point we also have a clause i believe which thank you for pointing out earlier that if we are not one hundred percent satisfied with the outcome as a business with this the popping up of the two lives we pay eighty percent upfront we withhold twenty percent tell satisfaction we are satisfied that the blooms are where they're supposed to be correct in this particular case last year we held back the twenty percent a portion of that twenty percent a portion of the twenty percent of the total crack right those are my two basic questions but my and as i said earlier i do purchasing i have been doing purchasing for about thirty five years so it's pretty near and dear to my heart is extremely unusual for us to vary although we have the clause in there that we have the ability that we have the right to accept or reject any and all i can't talk tonight any and all  have a near to ten percent differential and go with the higher bid throws flags up for me and they should for anybody i'm struggling right now with the rationale because if we don't have good solid evidence it's a maybe you next has been doing great for us for seven maybe even up to the last ten years i don't remember all how long they had t bid but it's been a good relationship except for last year which we went with low bid and it came back to bite us a little bit and i'm understand why you're a little skittish and want to do that again but for the sole reason that one vendor came back and had a a natural phenomenon if you will happen that we cannot guarantee that's not going to happen again with you next or if we went and i'm not  try to say the guy's name if we do that's where the catch comes in for me we work very very hard on the integrity of our bids in the end taker deorbiting process or quoting system and this just seems to flow just a little bit outside the parameters of what we should be doing we'll have to see what the other council members say but   i have not been purchasing for thirty five years that's a long time when i read a little i'm listening to what you're saying but i also listened upstairs to about a twenty minute discussion about the best meeting of the staff and little by these  i think there was a recommendation first daf just to think in terms of a longer relationship with this company if we are very sold on their quality and would like to pursue that it would be a worthwhile question committed to doing that for next year at least having that bet as an alternate i do think it speaks very highly of this company that they traveled here to check on the two halves even though it was the first year they were not given the catch back because they care that much about the size of the order of the hauen community because they realize how important the integrity of our two lives are to our reputation as a as a destination for celebration of dutch heritage and all that is dutch especially for tulip time and if you have don't have good tulips for tulip time what do you have it's millions of dollars that comes into the regional economy because of it and they place their trust in us as the people who order the tulips to send out everything else for why you want to come here so yeah tulips r us it's very important we had a blip we certainly do not want to mess with another one and that's why i'm sure the staff is recommending that we don't take no chances this next year and we go back to a company we can trust and and really make sure that it's right this year but thinking fiscally maybe there's a possibility of a longer term commitment and a better pricing from them because they've usually ban our lower priced bid right candy correct yes but the fact the fungus came from soil and those bulbs are ristal sent here is a nervy  nerve racking thing for me and also the potential of of having to redo soil that gets contaminated it's it's not a good thing to to play with for five thousand dollars in a could you call no thank you and so now we're talking about purchasing for the award bids for the well replacement is that andy back again white and no book struck yes madam mayor yes motion state the same five yes three no no problem thank you and we were consistent on that one issue look at that ok thank you for your patience as you observe right now we are going to purchasing for the well replacement matter been part  brevity i think the only matter when that was upstairs debated and discussing clarified was the fact that this refers to both the well and especially the us and it's not intended to refer to u think our city attorney had some suggested language that would be included in the motion if you wanted to act on this i would suggest that the motion be a motion to adapt the recommendation however striking the language in the middle of the bid proposal that says reads and includes any and all costs associated with the abatement and removal of the best as best as from the highland civic center my understands it was in there by mistake and not part of this project yes thank you david i would move that we adopt this recommendation using the verbiage provided by the city attorney so cultural and i think her mini it is recommended that these donations be accepted with appreciation and an expression of gratitude be forwarded to said don't think you have a motion to  support some on favor say aye post same sign i care yes thank you and thank you to the community once again for amazing generosity now we move on to the review of the scope changes to meet the approved civic center place budget right thank you madam mayor this matter is presented tonight for your information there has been discussion with the design team great great camp is the leader of the design team from edgewater resources he is here to explain the scope changes made to be consistent with the budget is approved by council on july sixth welcome back greg good  that led us to work towards a budget right now twelve point seven five million total that is established through a point five million and by and funding one point five million in tiff brown took the funding  two million dollars here and get donation and then an additional five hundred thousand and cash donation from hayworth and a five hundred thousand dollars donation in furniture and kind services which we are currently sort of working with a two hundred fifty thousand dollars number  because we're still establishing exactly how much from nature and so on can be used so those things add up to thirteen but when you take that to fifty off is twelve point seven five so that is the budget we are working towards at the  moment so as we've been working as a team trying to establish how we get from the scope of work presented july sixth towards where we are today we do we always just design it we focus on a set of guiding principles to try to sort of follow the process through that we've been doing so first we wanted to on our own out of the overall vision and process the community priorities established through the design process and also the input and feedback from council we wanted to maintain what we understand to be the top four priorities a very clear message i think we got on the sixth was to not simply not something off but try to do more of a thoughtful reduction that kept many of the primary pieces or as many of those primary park we thought that those items as related through the process and the council comments were needed to focus our efforts we also wanted to maintain excuse me the quality of the process so it's rather than  sort of reducing the quality of elements in we thought doing slightly less square footage and or less square footage where needed or you know doing this maintaining the level of quality of materials for der billeted purposes to make sure that this building would be useful for fifty years into the future versus saying well we'll do everything but keep it up which we didn't think was an appropriate approach nor was that what we heard from council so the scope revisions that we the sound system improvements for example the basic bit package has a sound system that is an upgrade to what is in place today but there was a layer to that to make it significantly  to take those loads in the future but we were able to identify about five hundred nine hundred thousand dollars that could come off and that could be added later well the room associated with the second for simple things the demonstration kitchen in the northwest corner was a one point four million item a large item so on the east side that we obviously can't do everything we can sort of magically have things so one of the one of the compromises in the east hall  expansion was that we're no longer able to flatten the upper deck seating and so rather than the full two storey height with the internal balcony the simple space we left  we left the ceiling in place and we have about a story and a half glass facade the savings is significant it's about one point one five million dollars now that's that is a that is a different thing then than you saw in the graphics we don't have a new graphic t site i was about one hundred twenty thousand dollar item again that's something what we'll do in the design package will even conduits and things like that if we have a donor at some point in the future we want to bring it in that can be done as effectively as cost effectively as possible so we also identified  so those are the sort of significant pieces that we're not able to do well so reduced the square footage or all square footage of some of the additions  they're about eight hundred square feet and so all of those things together do bring us down within the twelve point seven five million dollars budget and we're certainly obviously hoping to identify additional funding and so  relates to what would we do should we find additional donors or or other things happen the primary focus the for the first step would be to try to get the essential reception area back up to the original goal that's certainly a goal i think we all share we think that's very important that would be about a one point two nine five million dollars effort to do that also increasing the office we basically had to had to scale down the office space we'd bring that back up would be about fifty five thousand dollars we also had to one thing i didn't mention we did have to also decrease the overall state budget by another hundred twenty thousand dollars we didn't exactly identify what precisely that would be but we did leave the southeast portion intact and focus more on the western gateway the western market anchor area so we'd like to get that back if possible the square foot reductions to the north pole would be the next priority and then the ro access so then beyond that the soundsystem water feature and then some other elements would be improving the asphalt acquire the asphalt in the parking area and then replacing the existing riffing so  again it's there's a lot of sort of push and pull in this process as we go forward with additional fundraising efforts we've been fortunate there have been a few folks have been reaching out to us we're working on that as best we can also as we get into the bidding process if you're aware of how this works sometimes you get a low bed and that allows other things we will have certain things put in as as what we call out alternate meaning you know give us a base bid for a defined scope and then you say here's a bid for this other thing and if you can afford it we added in at that point so that's where we are today and is there anything else you'd like me to cover i just like to point out in the report that they did analysis as to the square foot and do you have those numbers of  dollars an eighty cents a square foot the new construction space so the new additional building space would be three fifteen sixty and when you hybrid when you make a hybrid of those and say what's the overall cost it's about two eighty three  in the water feature let's dress to your that's a lot of ritual as part of the north northwest respite area was this really the part of the western market anchor will still be able to do that market space it just won't have the splash pad  unless we can find a donor or some other source but that the area is still good in the plan of every branch is rational there will be some improvement there but that's the area that is as it is relates to the site priorities we're focusing on the need improvements around the building we have to knit the building into the site after it changes the ses park and then we'll go in the market improvements and then we'll go as far as we can in the west bank are based on our budget availability thank you tried to say right now what that what that will look like that's  this kind of coming from the brownfield perspective as well and i think i'd ask chris about this when when he briefed us i'm kind of curious about that southeast park relative to its potential to in essence go ahead and be that full on park now instead of kind of hybridized inversion knowing that again brownfield now has moved along in a way that we know kind of to some degree the number of parking spots that are going to be a short seven iron up the hill if you will  you know is there a potential to do it again knowing that these are solid numbers but if indeed we do that rather than kind of start placing those sparking take structures in there as well as are some savings albeit modest yeah that could potentially shift that way i think that's a potential for us to go and go and do that hark if you will work well right now we're holding the budget firm on the southeast part which is that that's that's an item that we're going to hold steady right now we're doing research with michigan state university and university of michigan who both use their golf courses and other sites for overflow parking on game day events have also been in touch with the city again happens as well so i think we're fairly firm that we're going to not move forward with the which is a reinforced paper that we've shown you that goes in there simply because while it may look green you have the first person to play ultimate frisbee and dive and that's going to get hurt so where we're looking right now is a very  it's a very thoughtful subgrade mix of soils that make sure that that works that would be a little bit more expensive than we typically do if we find ourselves at some point down the road saying we're not going to park on it then we could maybe feel back on that is that yes yes i think that raising so we've taken a step forward that even if we do park on it which we intend at that as of right now we do intend to use it for overflow parking the way that you have them in michigan say it does if at some point we may not be able to save anything but if we can that certainly it probably beyond that i'm in there so you're saying at the moment we're just holding the price because a norm of a typical cross section we wanted to have a cross section where that sort of one thing i don't want to happen is that we make a green park so we can park and then it's destroyed three weekends and we don't want to do that there so i think there's a potential there i'm hesitant to commit to a savings but i think its potential as we get through the development will certainly answer that question in detail that's proceeding along the lines is as what you would expect but drawings so shared with the entire project there should logically wait until more fundraising outcomes are known which are expected within six weeks so i asked greg to comment on that if if he sees any better approach secondly the last month there's been additional expenses associated with figuring this out so i have not receive design that was authorized in june because you know we were doing some things that we can continue on but we're let's get the scope figured out before we dive into designing it i will say this where we've been on pause for for four weeks maybe there's to be a commensurate delay in the whole process here we'll try to catch up as much as best we can i do think it's the right thing to do is i don't think there's a magical day in july we had that early conversation trying to be open for took time and it was at eighteen back on the six some of the recommendations you have here although it may not be very popular i think you grasp the scope of what council had asked for the other one question i have probably i'm going to be embarrassed for asking it the if we want to go back into the sometime in the future one of the things i had said you were early on is we've got to make sure that the base is there so that if we do in hants we're going to minimise the impact on the use of this do you see any any of these potentially that would disrupt in any great way shape or form the use of the building if unfortunately we don't get the fund raising at this point and the first one i probably answer for you the east entry reception area is probably going to be the biggest impact yeah that's if i understand your you were going to ask you to choose either leveling the floor or not letting the floor you you won't want to say let's start without loving the floor in the future a love affair that would be starting over so that would be were really are a yes or no decision on that east elevation so that's that's really the focus of our funders and hopefully we can get back to that key point the access for example that's a relatively easy one we're going to structure engineer that rough now while we build it it's not a huge cost increase and then that is something that could be added as a very clean come back into a project later the only other potential would be the additional north you're scaling that back from the sidewalk yeah adding this we're adding the square footage back there's probably not  it's you're not going to do that but probably not going to be the answer would be a major recall or major overhaul yeah exactly right i mean but to be fair there's you know the precise exact square footage in the north is you know if it's i questions are we ready to go ahead with the motion twelve point seven right and is that where you see this discuss where those funds would be applied so it's it's just hated this be accepted as information should something major change the next six weeks would be back to you study session most likely to make sure you you concur with the design teams thought at that point otherwise this was consistent so it's really no decisions tonight rather useful measure of information information in a voice vote does anyone want to talk more or do you have a motion that passes thank you greg thank you team for all your work and your rework and i work and hopefully we can go forward here and get the donations that we need in order to embrace that eastern side of the building the full square footage and all that how the potential of that site thank you so much for sticking with us through it all thank you ok we're on to communications from city manager captain thank you i wanted to make sure that everyone knew that walker parking has completed their recommendations for a downtown and in short it involves primarily having time limits on the use of key spaces so ten a m tomorrow i believe in this room the various downtown bodies will meet to have that review and of course it will later include all of the merchants and come to and study session but i wanted you to know that that it does exist and that it will want to do is speak directly with the consultants second thing i'd like to just say is yesterday was a big day for the city of holland and i couldn't be more proud personally in the outcomes those of and a paralysis deputy city clerk and her team which numbers it seems like hundreds to produce an election the third out of four and they're not easy  extremely complicated and i'm always grateful for the work that goes into and i think some least one council member perhaps actively participated so and i think i can see it by the fact that there's  weariness it's a long day on top of that our communications team pulled off first in a long time movies in the park and i was wrong in my email this morning they were not eight hundred people in attendance there were it was counted twelve hundred people who were there and enjoyed star wars and the whole ambiance and felt the vibe the energy was in the air and the tire communications team members of the  works i think kayak friends of relatives of high actors everyone was in the act and the last thing i want to mention that so appreciative and it's it's last but it's not the least because it's multiple years over two decades and that's national night out yes that was an amazing everything was i felt like you were in some kind of disney movie everywhere you went it was just beautiful beautiful weather wonderful relationships all kinds of different people everyone having a great time all different kinds of families whatever and there was also a concert at centennial park by the american legion band which we really appreciate their cultural addition to our to our city  too that was so great and this saturday there were yet to fill centennial park with art in the park which is another great event that happens once a year and people love it they come from everywhere they would usually reasonable prices but that is no reflection on the quality is excellent quality of all types of art and it starts i think it nine goes to four and so please come on down that was so well attended the arts and crafts from  in centennial park was a banner year for them and i'm sure we'll have the same on saturday so that's great so thank you so much for listening in and being a part of this any council members have  of this system that we used to to vote on things and how many things can go wrong and how few things actually do go wrong thanks to the efforts of folks like guy and i and everyone in the city c point i want to make is that there in the day there were a few also i had an opportunity to have conversation with us on my cold poll workers and one of the supervisors who was there and in speaking with them it really became clear that there's a whole lot of folks who are very very dedicated to making sure that the process of voting is as easy and available as possible and that there's a genuine genuine dedication to making sure that everyone has the opportunity them to vote and as i heard this idea i was reminded that that stands in stark contrast to a lot of examples that we see around this country and in the world frankly in the election process where many times the efforts are focused on making it more difficult but i'm here to say that that's not the case in holland michigan i'm glad for that and i hope all the residents appreciate that in the next election we don't even have a chance to well turn around say hello because it will be so busy with folks coming into to vote so thank you and  month away believe it or not it will be labor day september the fifth two fantastic events happened on september fifth the first one being that thing we call the or walk second the annual boardwalk and starting over it hines walking along the beautiful lake mack through colony park under the bridge past the civic center all the way to the island are you having breakfast this year ma'am yes we had to go and there will be a breakfast served for all those who braved the walk that starts at eight a m i believe yes or i remember things so you start your day out you go for a nice two and a half three mile walk three point nine three point nine miles very close have a couple of pancakes served by mr peters who does a heck of a job with the flapjacks and hands employees and heinz employees and then the big of end of the day you come back down eighth street because you're going to hear this big loud blasting of horns and revving of big diesel engines for the annual labor day truck parade we're expecting great things to happen this year again we've got a number of new entrants new sponsors that will be kicking off at nine fifteen a m sharp  down main street zealand down chicago drive into the city of holland down eighth street and god willing in brian wait getting the road fixed we will be at the civic center it's a little torn up right now but he assures me that they will be out of the way far before we have to do that before we're going to do this parade so as we get to the civic center the trucks will all be parked and  there will be one long loud blast of the horns at that point well the safety burials of barriers will be dropped and people will be able to go in and talk to the drivers take a look at the vehicles we will have ice cream some special flavors this year so no hotdogs unfortunately but we're hoping that people come out if you say there's nothing to do for labor day you're wrong between the boardwalk between the truck parade and between family time things are lively in the city hall and so we hope that you come out to those two events we're praying for good weather and we've got a lot of fun thank you mike i'm not going to provide the truck sounds this time ok ok now we need a motion to go into closed session for session but we can stay here would you like all right re stay here thank you three minute break s