so we're going to do the work first  have not meeting yet we are starting the meeting and i would ask you to explain the reason you are killing and any information we didn't receive the letter you sent to the town has everyone had an opportunity to read that they said they had been up the street to find the parcel to be a strong hundred but untrue which one it was after expressing my extreme displeasure at their coming without announcement or invite a memorial day i discussed in they told them to leave and they could go to the sugar  subsequently ever see the change in the appraisal for the parcel from sixty nine thousand one hundred to seventy seven thousand five hundred increase of eight thousand four hundred was attributed to the non farm building that's on the other she their assessment she showed it on the air but did not include it as a total total of up to seventy seven five it was sixty nine thousand for the  on the property a successful book by a sixty foot deeded right of way which is about fifteen hundred feet which leads to a level spot of approximately fifty by one hundred thirty feet where the sugar house is located the rest of the fifteen point three acres is only legally accessible by flick you can't get to it with a tractor or a four wheeler but we do we have an written permission from a neighboring landowner that attracts the possible road is available and we do use that but that's not soon as that neighbor sells the next people may not let him there there were about seventy five taps on the fifty three fifteen point three acres all the rest of the sack is brought from another parcel or from neighbor's land not equitable with the only other nearby comparable piece of land or for seventy five the only difference between the two parcels is the size of b h twelve hundred is listed as fifteen point three acres and d h all for seventy and i know from past history and anybody real estate knows if you have a thirty acre parcel you can build one house on it and you get a ten acre parcel you can build one house on it thirty eight of parcels almost all of us all sold for less per no other testimony that you'll be able to provide but what will happen after this is that we will send a party of three to your residence at your convenience a mutually agreed upon time and we have to do it within fifteen days beyond i think it's  very strict schedule within fifteen days from tonight's hearing we will go to your residence three people from this board will look at actual property again you cannot enter any additional testimony that evening they may period but again no other new evidence will be entered in when we go to the site visit doctor if you don't like the decision that we choose after this hearing this evening you have every right to take it to the supreme court  us you go to the state after us so you do have another appeal process if you don't like what our board comes up with so now questions from our board do you have to speculate anything else that you'd like to ad two thousand last count one ten at that time that sixty nine thousand one hundred was i think originally listed quite a bit more and  i appealed it down and it came down twice and in our discussion with the professional fraser's they did not understand t mate i would like to make i would like to ask three of the following people to with three people volunteer to serve on the committee to go to mr lynch residence to inspect this property within fifteen days if you are interested please raise your hand  a decision which is issued in writing it will be sent to you by certified mail the decision may be appealed by the tax thore or to the courts or to the state appraiser we have thirty days from the state of this hearing to come to your property and inspect mr casper will be calling you if you could give him your cell phone number or your house phone number we will come and visit at that time  they were not and also they will not allow to be voted to vote on the matter nor will they be able to do the site inspection because they did not hear every single word of evidence so that case is closed so we were only were in the room at the time th card that has to do with the fact that the state reimburses the town per parcel for a number parcels in the town so that's why the state requires us to give the same property owner owns two piece too much please let me know but that's this is the process that we went through when we had to figure out why why are we making this change they've owned this property what's happened that's different well what happened was is the state told us combine continuous parcels so we're doing with the state told us to do in the process of doing so there are two parcels and one parcel has been referenced as the west monitor barn hundred forty nine was the west monitor barn parcel twenty eighty three is the east miner to barn parcel that was previously the farm there are two parcels getting combined underneath the hundred forty nine parcel number in the process of combining these two parcels we have to review what has happened in the past with nine hundred forty nine  hundred forty nine and we went to superior court with a do a motion for declaratory judgment by v y c c basically they appealed way back in two thousand and six two thousand and seven time period issued an agreement between the town of richmond and the b why were you i c c a settlement agreement was also signed so there's two documents that's part of the application that v y c c provided to you in their packet  so we reviewed that at the same time we were getting advice from our district advisor from proper evaluation in review through that advice they recommended we have the y c c complete exemption application and in our packet you will see that there is an e mail correspondence between tom and myself telling them about the application and and they did that is their packet with the back black clip that is their application to us for exemption we decided to follow what the order in the settlement were the order in the settlement was a partial exemption they exempted them on seven point six acres where this monitor bar is and the structure what they exempted them from was a state educational tax and they did a settlement agreement which was a called a pilot a payment in lieu of taxes that they agreed to pay the municipality the town of richmond a payment in lieu of taxes on the value of the money the monitor bar and the west monitor bar and the seven point six acres are surrounding it the exam sion did not apply for the bulling and the remaining millions that were enrolled in current use the pilot does not apply to the bowl plans that are in current use the lancet and current use i'm not sure if your honor if you understand what current uses and and who pays that but it means that there are still a tax being paid on the bulk land to the town of richmond that was what was the harder bargain to things we did not truly revisit their use or what that order was we read it all to have a better understanding from it but we didn't pursue if we had jurisdiction to overrule court order we didn't pursue that so now comes the east monitor barn property and what are they using the structures the east monitor box we did a site visit to measure structures because not all of the structures were on the listers car so we had to add structures on the west minor barn side of things the lean to use that work were built up in the woods and the compost structure that was built was not originally on the list or scarred as well so we added that to it there is current use says that with those lame tuesday might have to redo their  amend their application that's current use that's the west marvin barn side of things the east monitor bar again we did the site visit looked at the structures to make sure they were all on the card we exempted we found that we were following the same line of reasoning as the core order and exempting a partial exemption on the east monitor bar property really exempted all of the structures with the exception  building as even one percent use for business use or rental use it's deemed one hundred percent used that way so we did not exempt a structure that structures value i believe it is twenty seven thousand five hundred but we did not find it exempt due to that purpose if that use changes then we would see it as possibly qualifying for exemption we exempted the two acres around the structure similar to a homestead of homestead your homestead has two acres around your structure so we use and cookie cutter approach the remaining land we did not find exact we found that they could just like the other remaining lands on the west monitor bar  side they are found exempt we didn't find these lands examined if they want to enroll in current use they can amend their application and rule these lands in current use and have the same set ups recorded the difference between the  east monomer barn is one is done by order the other is done by exemption the order side of things has the agreement that creates the pilot so the pick the town receives a payment in lieu of taxes on the west side by us finding a partial exemption on the east side there is no tax revenue for the town of richmond on the structures or the two acres the only tax revenue for the town of richmond is on the both lands that are still taxable we found exempting them from your taxes we don't we felt that was too big an issue for us to rule blanket exemption across the board and that was our understand of what they're requesting is exemption from the complete parcel structures and we felt that was beyond our ability to grant based on everything we read the documents that we've provided to you that we also considered we also considered their act to fifty per match that said what the was we also consider the two thousand and twelve government on the recreational trails to be recreational trail work and when they came in their two thousand and six decision or discussions on the paperwork we've read it was confusing for us what their public use was is it educational and if it's educational because they're claiming both things that can come in public use educational and the application for the exemption from the state of vermont says what's your primary use and what are your secondary uses and then in the document that they gave to us they list all of their uses together so their primary use wasn't easily defined for us and their secondary uses were easily defined then there's also a clause in the educational exemption area that says that you know you are exempt except for the following you may not far and you may not run you may not have commercial rental of your property  so that's why we were like well maybe they're not educational so we're not going to do the wedding use we're not going to give you the farming that came in two thousand and nine because the farming came in after the two thousand and six order so we just did not know if they were primarily educational use or if the primary use was public use and what was the public use if they're not the boy scouts  not the girl scouts which state statute says those plans are exempt so we were it was it was a difficult decision to make on the east side of things and trying to make sure we cover everything you also have so you've got back to fifty permanent work says they're still going to pay twelve thousand five hundred dollars in taxes you've got all the other permits the say they're recreational use you've got an amended act to fifty that i think they had to go through for the trail of work that they were going to be doing because they were receiving a grant funding for the trails and in reviewing those again they say their primary use of the structure is for office space and training for the  hire out and send out and that they were going to be there only limited times of the year if their use has changed and it's for educational that wasn't clear enough for us in the application and if so then what about those exams and things  district advisors have advised us that partial exemptions are basically what it sounded like we needed to do and the way to go if they're using if they have different uses even though it's a use that might be fund raising for them for their project if it's still commercial rental of the space that still commercial rental of the space and there's a reason that they have to have the statue set the way it is and wasn't able to figure this seven page document is a document that comes  based on their past documentation or make them on the documents that they provided to us when we were still confused on what the primary use this is educational is  public use the trails are public use for recreational purposes which drive is is the structure example because of educational use and so we didn't see any permanents that said they were in the patient facility so we set aside the educational use and stayed with public use they purchased it from the farm bureau so the farm bureau had two apartments upstairs in the way farm house and office space downstairs if that's now classroom space in our educational facility we found nothing to say to back that other then we do have their documents that they provided to us that that has they went to the state they got just happens to be a nonprofit their i r s tax exempt because they're a nonprofit  if that was there i don't know if it normally can be put there i don't know this is could be a minor change made by them but so we we set aside the educational facility thought process and state public use so that then you have to look at what the public use is of the structures on the arm and rather than try to reinvent the wheel partial exemption like they did town could be liable for paying the educational tax for this property because we voted to exempt them now this settlement agreement for the west margaret bar there is a clause there is a stipulation in that agreement that if the state is back to the town of richmond and wants to funds for the educational tax then b y c c will pay that but that same settlement agreement is not in place for the east monitor so if the state wants to come back and say we are liable for educational tax on this parcel the grant that list of the two of our parcels combined i believe was two point two million two point two million two hundred eighteen thousand two hundred that was on a listers sheet so we've prepared this letter to go to william johnston he didn't really it was our understanding we didn't find out till today that you actually were going to be making a ruling on this or even here and that's why the packets were prepared this afternoon because we had been led to believe all along that we were supposed to prepare this and send this packet to the state and let the state determine taxability of the property and you can see this in title thirty two from us that it's in a table paragraph forty four for although the question has not been directly answered by the vermont supreme court there is support for concluding that way to disappear core via a b c a hearing in addition exemption cases often include a dispute over value which is clearly within the jurisdiction of the ca and must be addressed for these reasons an overview of some basic principles of property tax exemption make the gospel to us so in saying that it's important that we hear but they then v y c c may take a right to supreme court and it's out of our hands anyway or as in the last case the town fathers was like work with b y c c may come to a mutually agreed upon agreement which they have every legal right to do so i am not an attorney but i want to make sure that you knew that we are hearing this case we are listening to both sides and it may first going to the court we were not allowed to strike the deal had acquired we went to court and the court gave back to us to make a decision correct we could allocate one well the court could make a decision or leave it in our hands but it had to go to court first correct and worried we i really do not want to argue if you all have the ability to rule here that is not my issue that is not my issue to argue or debate i just want you to realize that we were we were led to believe and still today that you were not making this decision so the packet we were preparing for was for william johnson to make a decision at the state level whether they qualify for an exemption it is a state exemption were granted i would really like to hear from the state not just the district advisors who are telling us how to put things into the computer this is this is the field this is how you answer it here's your handbook in your handbook it says the b c you can't rule in exemptions which that's fine i'm not going to argue them both i'm not going to argue with you or mark spared it's not my job to decide that i'm just providing you with the documentation that i had to review and then mary had to review and that's the determination that this board will make any permit or any application that we saw that's what they were meant to anyone what they were being used for a bar for twenty employees and sixty students for less than sixty days days per year located off with two if that has so and throughout this it was they were in the car as the school and i guess the educational side of things there were clauses that they were supposed to do the farming or the it comes back to l size of where the actual last bargain is it's five point one acres that's it right there you're looking at this right there that's it yeah so it's five point one acres we didn't know why that acreage was seven point six it's something we could never find and we asked the y c b c at their grievance hearing they didn't know either at that time and that they might know now but i don't i don't know where the seven point six came from there an additional five point three that the settlement offer talks about and that's for the power lines the utility easement that runs up through the property that's executed from current use because they weren't used as all those lands to be part of the current news program so there's a tax associated with that five point three acres that's executed from current use then there's a map showing both parcels so you get a better view of that and then here this is their current  of things that are conservation the historical preservation of the structure that's there on the east side of things we didn't find that in their package so we provided you with a grant to develop the development rights and conservation recognise this and that's why the grade of their land isn't as high as what it could be for for other properties in town their grade of their land has been reduced to acknowledge that development rights or we're on is twenty five and this was all stuff right off their own website that talks about their revenues or talked about how renting the facility to talk about their farm sales this is what we were looking outwards from your thinking educational  education because in terms for educational and they can't be doing these two things if they are educational so let's say public use and then what is the public use  we gave you guys copies that were highlighted so you could see areas for us that jumped out and that we were trying to decide on which  acknowledge that they were nonprofit corporation we had no question about that for their purposes or for a list of thing we said we understood that they had many  said article three purposes promote conservation education and community service number two and this charitable educational and conservation purposes again multiple supporting factors that we were taking into account that's why we were leaning toward partial exemptions the bylaws that was really not too much their secretary of state seeing their certificate of incorporation their mission statement to teach individuals to take personal responsibility for all their actions were sustainment there was nothing for it it supports what they are doing and the issue for us their i r s exemption when they are a nonprofit that was tabbed by their tab six was the warranty deed and here's where parcel one we've highlighted the three point six acres where the farm was was originally three point six acres and part of their darby approval i believe along the way was they had to go up to the five point one so that parcel that we stopped previously in our packet went to five point one so that's why we're still trying to figure out why a s point six acre exemption so we looked at the hanging files and check that out there are many both land on that was the parcel to go with the two hundred twenty nine point five five acres which was the acreage that if you look at their current use map you should be able to correlate all the numbers together basis still this deed is for the west parcel we acknowledge that they had development rights conservation restrictions on public access  monitor barn property and we acknowledge that it had that scenic easement of the forty four acres which we didn't see in here and maybe i missed it and we go through here and might see it but that's why we provided you with that  so you could have it so we could be provided to you tonight so we provided the words so you obviously have to go to the damn records and it talks about that we highlighted because we weren't sure how that played out the sixty foot right away and easement reserved that it appears on the maps that we saw that it was between the two barns that was on the wire that was the on the easter piece monitor barn property but it was an easement that possibly was beneficial to the west we didn't do anything with that we didn't reduce grid or any didn't adjust the value for that a v y c c that way we highlighted it we noted at the top which parcels that we were trying to figure out what lump was on this one west parcel number two purposes of this grand management plan was for public outdoor recreational outdoor enjoyment uses the same thing on two they had restoration old and so we started looking at the number three noncommercial public outdoor recreation  residential commercial industrial mining activities page five of the right to clear construct and maintain trails for walking horseback riding skiing and other non motorized recreational activities within an across the protected property every time the two acres the city more or less than one hundred thousand property complex we were trying to put numbers together what's the acreage what's going on where page seven talks about camp structures extra recreational they're allowed to charge fees for recreational use it's all good access to the general public non motorized protected property and shall pay all other taxes if any assessed in lieu all or insolvency should have real estate taxes on the proper protected property all along it's our understanding that that there was going to be a property  documents we get to go order daniel levy and they provided us with the order of the december nineteenth two thousand and six order of the finding number five the seventh and we highlighted this stuff so we could understand what was exempt and what wasn't sen because the order is what was going on with the west parcel the seven point six acres and improvements there are may be considered exempt from taxes taxation pursuant to thirty two b s a thirty eight for under the public use exemption so the order doesn't talk about educational for that exemption purpose to talk about public use and so we kept going on with that five number six was the five point three acres that are not enrolled in current use that was the utilit section going through the property it gave us a value for the seven point six acres it gave that the twenty two hundred twenty point two five acre parcel with its value  shall be listed on the grand list on a nonexempt basis so they found the bulk of the alien to be nonexempt a quarter or so we found the same thing on the parcel next door the property showed the listed according to its use value appraisal there is no current use on the east property so it's listed at its assessed value appraised value and the current use values are determined by the state of vermont so that when you send a file they send it back to us and that's where that comes from let's keep going was there anything out of the seven point six eight sure partial exemption was in suing for the next eight years so it actually the exemption hasn't they're not exempt the order says  cease fourteen if you i c c acquires other real property in the town this order shall not be used as evidence on the issue of tax exempt status of such other real property it doesn't have to be but it doesn't not have to be either if they're claiming that they're using it for the same purposes as next door we decided to review the order and understand what it was purpose was and use it next door because the use was the same the academics or other public schools and this was their settlement agreement that was not the order so that a settlement agreement was on the side between the two parties parties so if you read further down in either town has contested b y c c's exemption claim in the above litigation so the town wasn't totally agreeing to what b y c c was claiming for exemption so they came up for the next eight the school years and then it goes on to talk about the calculation for their payment for the current year that they were in the taxes they paid and all of that kind of stuff and we still have to file the form for one morning with the state of  on to their other documentation that was the darby sternest two thousand and six petition for declaratory judgment a notice of appeal we jump to number seven that says be what c c file this request for a listers recognition of a portion of the property as example we want with a portion of properties exempt again the rest of the stuff talks about its educational charitable conservation endeavors if this is what was different forces because we're reading the petition for the clarity or a judgment the notice of appeal which it talks about program was just for the c s a shares that they were donating and feeding families it was also to be sold a farm programs that generates revenue just nonprofits who do work to bring money to support that nonprofit are exempt for i r s purposes but their properties are still taxed unless by state statute they have been recognized as being tax exempt such as boy scouts girl scouts there's a list of all next project sponsors run fifteen  stay as close as possible to what was already decided years ago we didn't find that their use had truly changed from that original agreement between the town and b y c c that any change if it was going to be deemed for the change was going to be for educational purposes we found no permits and documents that said that they were an educational facility if they permits are what trigger us to go to your house if you got a permit to put on an admission the permit is what we're going to look at and what are you looking to do are you looking to add a detached  for a business that you want to run out of the detached garage while how that goes on your car is it's going to go on your listers card as the value of a detached garage but it's not going to be considered to be part of your homestead house site because it's going to be a non residential use of that structure it's not your residential use like your home so you're going to be taxed as if it was a business so why w up permanent is because permits are what sun does to your house and permits are what would be why we would consider a different exemption for being the i c c is if they got a permit for an educational facility and they met their criteria as far as an exemption for that we would grant that exemption based on what they've provided to us and that a permit has triggered or requests from them has triggered for us to re and then we said ok then we've got to figure out what we apply an exemption for next door if he's doing the same thing next door as he's doing on the west parcel of the orders or a proper evaluation is done they think it's called an open meeting and requires minutes for an open meeting for them they just wanted to confirm that that process was was followed as you made decisions all the started we did the mailing out and you actually started to group process we received that letter and we met we met more than on more than one occasion when we went with we met with u s legal properties that may be a new construction or something that we haven't tackled before we bring them into the set of procedures that did the two thousand and eight reappraisal to the town so there was a back asian there was i think we have had a phone conversation with multiple phone conversations and as far as other meetings i'm more that if it's ok if if when they testify or they can add meetings if we've forgotten and i didn't i do have a a logger but i don't have it address in any detail that you wanted to ask but it's never been a concern of you i c c and the fair market value is not the two point two million dollars that we've established a cap that two point two million is the fair market value of this property value if the exemption status is basically an override of the fair market value it's a different just six units in the computer here's your value in the system and then you go out to this other part of the system and says oh by the way that's what it's where i'm going to hesitate for a moment because it's one we call them it's not usually just about one thing we try to knock halt we tr have a list of things that we're going to discuss with the district advisor district advisors that i have spoken to i will give you a list of them and they might be they might be one there might be one in there that comment directed to the war but we're not here to hear discussions of tax valuations whatsoever we're here only to hear any disagreement from two guardians on the their market value of the a listers are and correct me if i speak wrong here we really don't care who makes the decision whether it's the b c s or a judge or the select board we really want to apologize for being late tonight that we were not prepared for this and did not realize this was going to happen if the select board was aware of it and has legal counsel that is information they're providing to t forward we're not in any disagreement that if you have the authority to make a decision on if there's any error on the list or card regarding fair market value we will tell you all and the opponent the same thing right now if that list going right now that when tax bills went out this isn't right i don't have a business in my garage and they came to us and we made the change we sent the information to the state a new tax bill was printed and we listeners who did you know just a lot of energy and time into it and we really appreciate it as a very careful job just a second on the jurisdictional piece a few of us have been looking at this last couple days we don't have those handbags but our green books and as me trying to do the supreme court gives no indication that you all don't have authority to consider an exemption application and decision we're not sure where that came from  we don't know if it was a former statute that was repealed or where it is but as far as everything that we've been able to see you all do have the authority to review that i could execute and absolutely i could have been there and i apologize or really look at whether the combined parcels as a whole should be considered as exempt i'll just read quickly the portion that we are focused on is exemption for real estate granted or used for public pious or charitable uses one thing i noticed that was not in the listers package and i think it might clarify some of the confusion they commission on the two thousand and six order and you all i'm sure will have the benefit of town council so you know don't take my word for it and he was also participating in two thousand and six but my understanding from reading this and from the organization that is more dedicated to public use as karen her directly pointed out it's legislatively who did and directed by the amount legislature used for commercial are things like that and that has happened but you know each tiny portion of the property and carve things out really isn't the purpose of the statute the purpose is to make sure that organizations that are doing good for the public are provided an exemption to property taxes and so to carve out each little thing really isn't the way that it generally works there are secondary and this is that our commercial work i don't think i'm quite right in terms of the phrasing but it really it's all the same thing do you think need some help or need some guidance or whether even if they're not at risk by coming in and learning the just the two persons were combined that would mean that the that would have been to do we had no idea of the back to where we were just got the ball rolling with the grievance parts of the process because we didn't understand what would be happening to separate work together to try and get the car to the mining actors possible so when we come by two cars the first time around we have gone out to measure the structures to verify the structures in there because we knew it was going the value of their acreage dropped so that the combining of the two parcels those two chunks of land coming together puts you in a different place in the landscape will give you a lesser price per acre so that drops your great pause and those questions really firmed up in my mind the reason why we really need to go with this full exemption and that was round the question once that came up i was asked do you think it's really fair for you to grow food and  be in competition farmers or there was questions about there are exemptions and only got to that point i really stopped the conversation on my own stuff because it felt like there was something more going on here and the rest  the process that didn't come up it's never going to get ever sounds but it raises the question for me that no one really understanding what made all the i don't know understand all that's going on in this process i think it's really kind of the listeners have been really professional and very sort of agree this is you know we need something that we can count on from year to year we don't have a cause and some dollars to go through this process it's not end of her large organization in jeopardy potentially so same partial exemption that was there and your thought process and partial exemption was based on how the west property was exempted we tried to stay in line with that as much as possible ye ok the issue was educational and even and i apologize i didn't realize their application wasn't on the top of the packet that we provided to us to get staples yes staples in another box but in their application access to was recreational purposes if they use is recreational even though it's it's a nonprofit organization is dedicated to public use baggies out there on the street also is recreational is driven by both love the taxpayer owns it to train the choir members that are going out and if i may add i think there's a lot of focus and i understand that it's confusing but a lot of focus on education versus public and i just want to clarify that it's not so  at risk and one that is education regarding vermont dairy farms dairy farming is a part of you know from our public values one is education of the blind which happens to be one of two things were excluded if you want to go educational use the state statute says on your educational for work that or that you can you are exempt except exemption ok so how can those i think education on a more state of public use to ignore the education they don't want to education exemption because they want to farm and do the commercial rental we are doing that we whatever they want to do is what we have to look at so we set aside everything that says educational including their primary use their primary use their services education and training so we have to step outside to go with what's the public use for the public  exactly the same place what's changed is we really can't afford to go through this every every few years number one and two it feels like there may be something more than you know i don't know i think the select board has every power to enter into any sort of any kind of agreement they want to enter into would be one c c m hyland agreement at any point in time that this process does not hinder them from making a side agreement with  listers office so let's be clear in that any payment that the listers feel obligated or feel i mean the view i see you see feels like it's they're contributing to the community and the police force in the fire department and want to pay money toward that interfere with me and you just stepped over that one arm i had agreed to it before i would be glad to tell you with a listers do all they want but when the appearance of impropriety is presented to me i'm walking away from it and i present my information at a public b but you did not have the right as the chairman of the select board or any member of the select board to try to deal with the process and that is why you were shocked at some total end of story but i would like to comment on that because the e mail can requesting that we participate in this like work here and there is a process for grievance we are currently in it right now even if we came and presented to you we're on the fifteenth where things stood between us and b y c c we were not we were we were headed here i mean we're headed through the process and what we're being directed by the state as far as what our rules are listers are to do in calling our district decision you have your paperwork do what you need to do so the answer to your question is we declined the invitation to present to you regarding a piece of property that was going through the grievance process because  were to have a public hearing is to have it when they're scheduled for the purpose of grievance and we did not want to hinder that process or under this like work for me will be unable to enter into a pilot agreement and so it was choose to do so on that use parcel which they can do at any point in time and has nothing to do with us so we would be more than willing to go to the slough board and present to the public what happens at the end of this process ok i'm not going to go out there you would endanger two hours on this issue i is talking about a driving motivation and it's being insinuated that we didn't want to go to the slug board meeting for a reason there is no driving motivation here we granted them a partial exemption the same partial exemption that was granted before we were as far as competing with other farm the only reason that was discussed tom was strictly because we thought we were supposed to look at you as an educational institution going to educational facility and that meant you couldn't be doing the farming can be doing the commercial so we set aside the farming in the commercial and strictly look at try to look at it as use rather than educational so please there's no driving there's nobody no farmers nobody saying anything nothing like that's going on it was strictly by state statu where you could you can do it if it was educational the the issue of having to look at this every year the reason we have to even look at this year is because the y c see after the agreement purchased the property next door if you purchased another property we are going to have to look at it every parcel you purchase we will have to look at whether exemption status is in effect  it is not it is we are required to whether it's continuous or somewhere else in town the y c c could own a property that they totally run talk to somebody else it's the use of the property that we have to look at to determine the exemption status so i apologize for us having to do our job and that's all we're doing here the two thousand and six i totally agree with chris the two thousand and so we were told the pilot was delinquent so whether that's relevant or irrelevant that's where we found the financial director original paperwork the financial director so it's great that they're caught up before if the town wants to enter into a pilot agreement on the east monitor barm parcel that's up to them that actual tax bill for what they receive the shear on their property was significantly lowered you've got the tax bills in front of you was significantly less we thought that was them up supporting the town without having to go to a vote to a partial exemption  the east monitor and farm lands were not as restricted or publicly dedicated that's were if when that's where you guys can let us know in the future that if there is some kind of deed or easement granted for public use of those lands it wasn't dedicated the same way that the west was that was something we also had to consider i'm just trying to make sure i answered everything that was the question of public using versus public access if that was anything for you all to consider for the record because there's not necessarily public that the training that they were doing the training that they've done since the beginning and why they have all of those lands this is something that came up with the district advisors saying to us they've got all these lands but all their stuff says that they're training for just a few weeks out of the year where they send out the crews in the summer how is it that they're using those lands for training all of the time when they're really being used for public use is public access the rest of the time for recreational purposes we are more than willing whatever decision is decided upon by the b ca we will get into the system and go through the process of how that works if the vermont says something what's been happening is the state has been asserting themselves on towns that have granted exempt status and asked for a challenge to reimburse the state so that's why we really looked at this and called in everybody that we could call and to try and do the most thorough decision possible to prevent legal proceedings and took prevent the town for getting opinion of what transpired here my normal and i apologize if you took my normal i don't i don't insinuate i think here you can every time there's an issue we don't hang out in a beer but we have lots of conversations direct and whenever there's a on and change the whole picture it just won't work for us and the pilot it's worth noting while it's not a part of the us i feel a need to quickly respond to the town didn't feel as for taxes for two years that's discussion of how we might address this because we didn't have the carriage and we so we took out a loan the thing we want to get that issue off the table for those that that was a we didn't pay that we did not pay that because  our position is it's really not about that it's a wholesale exemption for an organization that is really serving the public and a lot of ways and i think after you see this application and generally what you might know about the  that it couldn't be more true that this is really a publicly traded organization and while i appreciate the careful consideration and feel like it might be a little bit too many carve outs and examinations of fine details that don't inform  occasionally have to take the next step to push push it to the next level which if we just flat out deny hypothetically if we just flat out denied this request the appellant's may take it to court superior court we by statute we have to go and look does next you know we have to go and look at the committees and talk amongst themselves within thirty days my recommendation to this committee could be wait that's legal and then three others and probably better to have our number for voting purposes so we're going to go out compile your formation bring a lot of information back to us however marshall stated a great point what was  look so that we are more informed when we make a decision however we only need to have three there anyone for your information anyone who is not on your t v and i believe we have four missing and missing four we have four missing they will not be allowed to go to the same visit they will not be allowed to vote in the decision so those who are members i did not show tonight will not have any of those duties under fairly new in full disclosure i want to let this entire board know that i am a board trustee of us e c i will not be voting i will not be going for a site visit i am just here to the meeting and that is all you will be back you deliberate but i will be so neal and june everyone ok with that and then i need three volunteers from the board of civil forty marshall suit and francis thank you very much i am going to  ask that marshal be the chair he's responsible for contacting the intelligence setting up a time and place at a time and a date to meet he's also responsible for writing a letter and organizing committee marched could you find out since you're the keeper of the book dolls of us agree that the fair market value is the fair market value that's the whole purpose of the site visit is just to determine fair market value if the crap you we both have the please reserve to get right asked that question i will you guys remind me remind me ok so we will be back in writing within thirty days you're going to send the time a guest and you can provide the documents linda ok i have two things i would like to apologize for our late news because because when we were at staples represented the town credit card it was presented to us that the bill had not been paid so we have to get our own funds to pay for the coffee  and second since you made a change and allowed the appellant to speak after we couldn't put in our second round i would like you to pull the board of the members that were present when jack was here to allow us to present your rebuttal not knowing what he said was absolutely think you were actually not allowed as the board to hear any evidence or information without jack being present so regretfully we can't hear them on by the guidelines