improve road to do in the village west of the park and ride for bicycles and pedestrians because of the sun i'm going to quickly look at this one we'll talk about the purpose and need quickly and probably to start backwards just so we start over there so that i'm not staring in the stand i can see you and we'll figure out what we do the cross over there some way but this the study area that we're looking at basically starts in the village area which is right here heads west on route to the parking ri located right there but the study area actually goes a little bit beyond goes under the interstate and around over to the checker bridge in terms of route two which is the heavy black line here and the blue sort of shows the area that we're thinking about as potential areas for possible improvements if we find something that's that works outside of that area we'll consider it but this is kind of the area that we're focusing on so it's sort of from the interstate to roughly the river as a study area and from the village to a little bit past the interstate so they really understand we're talking about there ok i'm going to move over here but first time to take my glasses with me  me and i wanted to just go over the purpose and need with you basically what what's the real purpose of this project and this is a draft high and so we're looking for comments on this as well if anybody has any way things they think should be modified and by the way there are copies of the report we have about ten or twelve copies here and the back chair if anybody hasn't seen this it was posted on the town website and i'll give you more information as to where it is later and i'm also going to post it on my website but the purpose and need is on page one and it's section two near the bottom of the page and the purpose of the road to bicycle and walker project is to create improve walking and bison conditions between richmond village and the richmond park and ride especially for commuters and consider better bicycling walking access an connections to the other destinations within or adjacent to the study area including the elementary school and the camels up middle school so as we go through this will a lot of these figures relate to some of the things we say here but that's sort of what we're trying to do so we're we're focusing on trying to make better commuting between the village in the parking right up so that it's over there as sort of the primary focus and obviously for bicyclists more than for that distance but we're not ignoring that estrogens and we're not focusing solely on that we're looking also at how can this these improvements help us get to other destinations within that area or how can it connect to other linkages further on because as we see as we go through these things this is actually designated as part of the regional system as well so while we have sort of a focus on commuters it's not the sole reason why we're looking at this so that seem reasonable  ok so tonight's meeting is to basically look at the information we've gathered so far on existing conditions make sure that we have everything right nobody has any other additional things that we should consider or some mistakes that we might have any information and to get any suggestions that you might have in terms of what we should consider as we begin to look at the alternatives for ways of improving biking and walking in this study area and because of the sun i'm actually going to start backwards and that we have divided the study area into two sections so the north section in the south section has a little bit of overlap just to give a little more detail because if we kept it all sort of at that larger scale some of the detail began to get lost so starting with natural resources a lot of the area as you probably know is in the floodplain the park and ride itself is in the floodplain all of that you can fill this whole area and it would cause about a foot rise in the floodway sort of as a rough way of dividing between the flood when that if you begin to fill over here past this theoretical line it starts to make the flooding a little bit deeper that's not to say that we're going to fill this is just how they've developed this theoretical line and difference between the floodway and the floodplain for our purposes it's all kind of an area that we have to pay attention to so this is the north section the park and ride is here to comes around here to read about the curve in the cemetery and then here you can see where we would go here right here on the curve in the cemetery right here and then r as it comes down in the village so a lot of the area is in flood plain we've also shown the wetland areas on here the wind areas are showing up and it's always interesting when you look at these you just notice things for the first time well in the areas of showing up here with this lighter blue that like that's well and linking down they consider the whole river area wetland and these are by the way state data layers they haven't been put down and really map closely on the ground so they don't tell us exactly there's a wetland there but it says we've got to be concerned about a wetland in that area and this map and what i just said i realized this one they're shown in a different color so i have to change this one eventually to match because i want to be like this so these are these blue patches here that are the same color flood plain i'm sorry about that show where the weapons are in this area there's also a few areas where there is rare threatened or endangered species that's this yellow area right in here primarily along the river and in the floodplain area there's also one that's up across the interstate that's sort of focused up in here you can see the edge of it right there the data that you usually get for that doesn't give you the pinpoint it gives you a general block so that you know that there's something special there but it doesn't pinpoint exact locations because when they used to have that information be able some people went and got them so they don't want that to happen the orange is a deer wintering area up there these little red x s i think those  only two actually is when the interstate there are areas where there's actually a high volume of road kill it's one of the pieces of data we can get signifying that there's like a wildlife crossing that's going on in that area somewhere we've recorded where the street trees are located right next to the road so that we know where they are and i think that's most of the information the important information that's on this about is another small were threatening danger right there by the way this is the railroad line right in here just for reference purposes it's that big straight line that comes through anybody any questions on natural resources ok this is one you probably all know just by being here this is the topographic map everything in the flood plain is obviously pretty flat as you get outside the flood plain over by the interstate you get start to get the steep slope you can see word the lines get really tight together you're getting up into the hills over there you can see here that there is a ridge right here which you know where as you drive up in the town you go up that little hill that's represented by this line right here the cemetery shown as being a little bit higher there's a gully running back into this area so it gives you some idea of the land forms and this is a way of representing the land forms so i'd like to turn things over to greg to cover that and then we'll figure out what to do about the s that is important for the study because any improvements within the route to right away that right away is owned by the state and if there are any improvements within that corridor or within the right of way then certain federal and state standards will have to be met in order to get funding or do any improvements within that quarter or so roadway with along route two is generally twenty eight to thirty feet wide and what we're going to call the rural portion of route two which is put the portion between the park and ride in the village and it generally consists of twelve foot wide travel lanes for motor vehicles in the shoulder with along there varies quite a bit anywhere from one foot to six feet wide in that area and then as you get toward the interchange in the park and ride the roadway winds out a little bit it's thirty four to thirty six feet wide and also in the village it winds out for on street parking in the village as well as the right of way with through the corridor generally is sixty six feet wide which is centered on the existing road which means thirty three feet from the center on either side of the road is the right away owned by the state it does why now at the interchange for i e nine gets to be about ninety six feet and then it kind of varies as you know interchange area through the the speed limit which is also important in terms of state standards for any type of roadway improvements along the corridor it varies through our project area it is forty miles an hour near the park and ride transitions to fifty miles per hour in that rural portion and then transitions down to forty and then thirty is in the village so usually we take that information we take a look at what the state standards would be for improvements and in this instance because of the rolling classification the speed the traffic volumes that are out there the minimum standard for roadway to meet motor vehicle needs state standards is eleven foot travel and three foot wide shoulders that's the minimum standard that has to be met along route two no matter where you are along the corridor with the exception of the village there can be certain exceptions taken in the village settings so  that will be important as we move through into the alternatives process later on in the study yes is the minimum be a minute and in some cases the existing condition doesn't mean that today most days and that's for this particular order so if you're on a different route say like route one hundred it could be different depending on the roadway classification traffic out there right now for traffic so hopefully that will prove that condition out there we looked at crash history through the core door and crash history comes into play generally when you're thinking about real improvements if there is a possibility of of addressing crash history the three intersection improvements are already improvements that something will consider that doesn't necessarily happen have to happen especially when you're looking at a bicycle and p an facility but it's something that we'll consider as we move through the alternatives here so trance has what they call a high crash location database and high crash locations are they've they've gone through in taking a look at crashes throughout roadway corridors in the state that specific intersections and they rank them and if it but if it's a high crash location means or been more than five crashes within a five year period along either roadway segment or an intersection and the crash rate exceeds critical crash rates the state and i can get the details of that but that's how they come up with this thing there's there's a there's some method behind the madness and so it's interesting to note that along the corridor there is one intersection that's a high crash location which is the four corners right here and there are three segments along the corridor that are high crash location segments or are point three mile segments of roadway where there's a crash history as you can imagine the segments are actually shown in purple here on this graphic and you can imagine it's mostly where all the most the motorboat vehicle activities taking place where you have conflicts that various intersections so you know through the interchange area in the park and ride is identified as one of them and as you get close in the village toward four corners another and  to glean from that information you know what is the major cause of these crashes so you look at it you can speculate but it's great to hear from folks here especially tonight to hear if they if you guys know of any crashes that have occurred here and what the cause of it was we don't have to spend a lot of time on it but if if you if there's any information that you can share we can do that is intersection four corners here we don't have much information on on that other than it was a non incapacitating injury i don't know if anybody has any history or background on that  if you do feel free to share with us now or maybe after the meeting planned projects through the corridor or like i mentioned earlier the transplant expand the park and ride and also do some roadway improvements there will be a minimum four foot shoulder on an entire stretch of road the shoulder is pretty pretty generous there today but that will be the minimum for that for that structure road with that project that project is plan looking to see whether they have for the whole thing but it's something on the radar screen they're planning on putting out the construction in twenty fifteen and so they'll start design in earnest late this year early next year  so that that's when we'll be able to find out whether or not they're going to do that consistent for why shoulder throughout or go down to three foot wide and snow we're assuming they were going to have traffic counts and they estimate traffic volumes long search stretches of road so that all kind of fits into the formula for determining what your minimum state standards are as well trucks comprised of approximately four percent of that traffic which is actually below average for this type of highly leveraged off but you know not to say yeah you know but there are trucks out there there's no right there there's a fair point underground fiberoptic line that runs along the west side of the road and that's underground and then there's also a dock bank along the side of the road and we know wakefield telecom has a bullet vermont gas just recently installed a gas line along the eastern side of the road it's not in the car yet the dive for the for wakefield telecom is a separate separate facility  the water and sewer they be in the village here and i'm not sure they're shown on this graphic here but they run along the road in the village roadways i guess old there are no questions on that or any other comments for information that we may have missed i'll turn back over to jim and continue on you did want to mention that greg was talking about those various different elements and a lot of the lines that you see here that are really tied together all those different things if we need to we enlarge all this so we can see the details begin to look at certain things but we also have all these little things are where the signs are we've noted where the guard rails are located so we've got as much information is here as possible to help us in the future and at this scale it's it's not necessary useful we will be able to blow it up if we need to want to move on into land use which again i think a lot of you are aware of there's a lot of agricultural use in the study area these ten things are fields that are currently being used for agriculture the lighter green are parcels that are in public ownership of some  sort whether it's volunteer park or the cemeteries or the school's i q or the name of this park up here but there's a smaller part there were down here in town offices you park in the area there and we've also identified th that would be potential destinations for bicycles and walkers and this one in particular i want to see if if you have any comments on because as we mentioned earlier we want to try to if possible improve pedestrian access and they're shown with these blue stars so some of the businesses that are along route two we figured people want to or could potentially walk and bike there especially the camera the name of it but the place that the chicks of the cars down here are people who drop their cars off and walk or walk up there to pick their cars up so that's an important spot in terms of destinations and then we've also just noted all the commercial land use is in the red on the two maps just so we know where they are because they could also be potential destinations for people that are walking or biking in the corridor or near the corridor overall so we as i said we've noted most of the commercial areas in the public parcels and the park and ride is there anything else you can think of that would be a destination here that we haven't thought of that we should be considering as we're looking at what we're trying to service in here and you know if some pops in your head later you can always send us an email or tell us the the figures things that don't necessarily put themselves into figures rather easily and i just wanted to quickly go over those if anybody has the plans in front of them they start on  page nine and those are just sort of planning documents just as we're trying to make sure that we're looking into everything that might affect this the town plan definitely supports this direct quote from the town planners many residents desire a safe link between the park and ride to the village and jonesville along route two so right new town plan we've got support for this the regional plans also support this one of the appendices which we will have available but there from the area as part of it's basically designated as a non road facility in the park and ride plan so that from a regional level this is considered a an important on road link and then while it's not directly located in our study area they also show off the road link that's using part of the cross from montreal that you have over on the other side of the river which comes down here and heads off this way and in and makes its way back over to  one of the things we're thinking about is how can we connect that make sure that whatever we're doing here provides a link to that so that it just helps expand the system one of the thing to just also point out we have in the transportation map we've got three trails in the village area that we know about are three paths one is the trail around volunteer park one is the old path that connects the end of church street over to borden and in the study that was done for the lo bridge street it talked about potentially creating a larger path back in this whole area so that's something that we will keep in mind as a potential link and there's also the small sidewalk that goes from jericho road down to i think it's turner children i'm sorry down in this area so those are things that are in addition to the roadways that are also some transportation facilities that are in the village that we know about those are the only ones that we know about these three and then we have to get it marked on here but the cross from a trail that comes through here is there anything else it comes here and then it works its way all over two hundred in a row right in there so that's where we got it and that's the one that shows up on the regional as a part of the regional system as well anything else trains head and hands it's its own unofficial policy for several years before the state officially made it a policy of trying to make sure that they're considering bicycles but as soon as ever they're doing improvements which is why they're looking at putting these extra shoulders on as they're doing the repaving to make sure that they're trying to accommodate those and then there was also another report recently came out of the chittenden county park and ride and intercept facility plan and just now we found that about ten percent of frequent park ride users access the lots by bicycle eight percent sometimes by bicycle so if there's a good number of people that well it isn't necessarily specific to this lot in general try to get the park in rides and bicycles and they also found that a price and twenty percent of responds to a survey they did indicated that additional sidewalks or bike lanes accessing parking the rides would help motivate them to use the park and ride lot more we don't necessarily need to motivate more people to use this particular park and ride but it's good to know exactly because they may be able to buy it up there and join in or get into boston so that that study found that having bicycle pedestrian access to park and rides was useful lastly we don't have any information at the moment on history or archaeology but we are going to do those studies once we have alternatives identified because we didn't want to just blank and we do the whole area but once we have all the reasonable alternatives identified we're going to go back and look at what potential archaeological historical impacts they might have so when we're doing our evaluations we'll have that information as well and that's it for the existing conditions does anybody have any other comments on just things in the quarter that we should know about first and then when we get done with that i'd like to hear anybody has any suggestions or ideas or more comments of things we should consider as we look you know turn to or any and then we'll tell you i was moving on and getting towards the rest of the project and how you can participate in further i would like to point out that we have a presence over here that you can take real quickly we might have a five second break you can get them there's also sign in sheet over there if you're interested in getting more information knowing when the next public work session would be or getting notes as to when we have different information available you can leave your name email real fast break if anybody wants oppressions or we can just keep going keep going and if anybody wants a thing just kept getting so far so i guess the first question is is there anything else in terms of existing conditions that we should know we actually making any advances in this particular case because they're really really paving the road and putting three minimum shoulders in and maybe more our do nothing alternative actually will be new pavement because as you said although it's horrendous now and three foot wide shoulders and that will be the do nothing alternative which is actually different than what talk about what it will take to maintain and that say in the case of the road improvements that falls on the trends to improve but if we put in the shared use capital whatever we'll talk about that the maintenance without the other town they'd be roughly not sure there are there fireball and then record why we're not proceeding with them in the future because this process project will go through several phases once a week decide what's the best thing to do and then have to do some engineering drawings or there's more public involvement this is why we look at these two things to know what the regional plan looks like so we're when we're putting our stick out there we're going to keep this in mind how are we going to link into the plan and they show  like this one shows rather to all the way in as a designated road so we're doing our part here even with nothing else but just that three foot wide thing is going to help tremendously and then this study ma something more to that we're soon in that obviously this improvement will be starting up there so it'll be helping all the way and we also have the off road one so that we want to make sure we tie into those systems as we can which is why we want to make sure that we we make can just come out and link to make sure that we somehow connect to there so we are going to try to even though we're doing a small piece make sure we are everything we can to eventually have it work into the larger system will create a standard three point shoulder all the way or from the village actually a much larger portion of road two but for our purposes from the village out to the road one seventy two sections of the bridge so but they have on the streets a road cleaning every spring and they don't necessarily do all of the state by these communities really push hard to say we really want you to make sure you get around to th options out there we record a mall and then we start sifting through and some of them get eliminated that day because they just we know they won't work and and this one coming from volunteer green and going up there probably won't get eliminated right away because we'll evaluate if you could talk to the railroad and get a crossing it becomes much more viable because you might be able to go around the edges of the fields and things so we see the railroad as the biggest thing but we would necessary throughout our right away until you know for sure the railroad w crossing but some of the others i'm not prejudice here but my bet is that taking the parking out won't necessarily fly and ripping the curb up and get ring of the trees to wind the road won't necessarily fly  we'll have record recordings of those by the time we get done will be down to sort of a reasonable number of alternatives which we will then come back with at another public works session and we'll present all those alternatives the pluses and minuses of each of those will also make sure that record of all the ones we considered is available if somebody wants us to go back and look at some of those again for whatever reason you can see what they are and from that meeting we hope to come up with  a set of either a recommendation or a set of recommendations and i'll get that just reminded me of something else i didn't say so i'll bring that up and that then we'll sort of put together a draft report we'll fine tune those recommendations or set of recommendations and then we'll have one more public work session where we presented again before we finalize it saying ok this is we heard last time here's your last look what you think and then will finalize it as the the recommendations that come out of the study which can then move forward as funding becomes available and depending on how hard the town pushes and the regional planning pushes  talking about that many think very quickly one thing i have in here which we didn't in the existing conditions before which i didn't discuss was the projected users and that starts on page two and it just very quickly give you a breakdown that there is obviously beginning bicyclists small kids and people that are real comfort riding bikes to moderate people that are colorful riding bikes they might become full running on the road in some situations but say they're not comfortable riding on this particular road up to experience bicyclists that can ride anywhere and then there's walkers again that are really have a hard time walking to people that normally walk to people that are serious walkers and if you go in are going back to the purpose a need our goal here is to meet the needs of all those users sometimes the little students that are in first grade and second grade need a different facility than the professional riders you can't necessarily always find something that meets all those needs in one solution so that's why i'm saying that we might have multiple solutions we might say that for now the existing condition that no action which is the wider shoulder is good for the short term but for the long term we really want to develop a shared use path as well and we'll have a recommendation for that knowing that that may take a little longer to be implemented so we may not end up with just the recommendation there might be a set of recommendations based on meeting the needs of all those users and it couldn't clude things like the right turn on red and addressing those issues that are issues for some of the pedestrian zone area and some of the bicycli s so i don't know yet what will come up with in the end but i'm pretty sure in this particular case that we'll probably have at least to set two recommendations something that's on road either just leaving it as it is or winding it out one more foot eventually as well as something that addresses the needs of the the walkers and the bicyclists that are as comfortable writing en route to even when there's a three foot shoulder because even with a three foot shoulder a lot of those users are still not going to come for walking along there or biking along here like how many of you would let your kids go out there and ride that three four children road to see a bunch unknowns right now so we haven't met the needs of all the users whereas in other cases you might be able to find a facility that works for everybody so in this one i'm thinking we might end up with more than one recommendation will prioritize them if something is going what do you do now what to do with long term what can you do really quickly short term that makes it is good for as many people as possible while you gather funds  to do the long term so i don't know what will come up with in the end but we are going to look at as many alternatives as possible so that's why i was asking if you have any suggestions we'll throw it into alternative list of things that we want to look at so i was happy mention with the the proposal basically to look at how to improve conditions from village to the park and ride this area here but also that it's improving for all users and to this way rather than this way so as we look at this we're trying to see if there's a system that we can go here that will help and it might end up being an alternative to using jerk but i don't know at this point but w because they were almost fifteen years ago so it they may want to be revisiting them again but they looked at all sorts of different conditions and there is no one set this is the astronauts they have all sorts of different types of road types there's a major arterial and minor arterial and so on and so forth each one of those has their own standards and then within that there's discussions of what's the speed on the road what's the volume on the road what's the travel lane with is it twelve feet wide is it a lengthy wide and when you mix all those factors together what's the best standard for for bicycles and that's one of the tables they have in there and so it goes from nothing where you've got low volumes and maybe eleven feet to four feet or five feet depending on the situation so there is no one set with but the state standards do give you a pretty good idea of what you might want to apply one thing and that that remains and we should probably go back and look at that table because that i think the table that we're looking at is what should what's the best shoulder for this roadway not necessarily what's the best bicycle with and i'll verify that whether whether that they're two of the same or and that and i can remember i mean i don't know which table chris is looking at you know pulling that out so but they're pretty much reconstructing taking out the concrete putting in a good base so you're not going to get nearly as much cracking right away as you would if you just did a quick pave over the mess that's there already but the maintenance and one i think will be taken care of it will obviously need repair over time but it's going to last much much longer the second part i'll make sure that we find more information about the states spring road cleaning programs but what they're saying the other way to look at that is that cars need to move into the other lane to pass somebody and if there's no if there's no ability to move into the other lane they're supposed to stay behind whoever that is until they can safely pass them allowing three feet that's what the law is meant to do a lot of people don't like you but that's what is meant to do and if there is to do care the last thing i want to mention then and i forgot to print out the calendar but i'm pretty sure it's in mind here is the scheduled date for the next work session we'll have more publicity out as it gets closer to that time period that we're more notices on the front porch forum and hopefully more newspaper articles and we're hoping that that there's a little more information advanced out a little bit earlier because that one is we think is us as like a really important meeting because that's when we want as many people as possible to help us look and look at and evaluate the alternatives so we if you want to leave your that we will do a presentation of two three four eight alternatives with the pros and cons of each one and what do you think which which of these should we go with will be the focus of that meeting or which combination of these should we go with and that at will also we may not do up for presentation but will have the information available of all the different options we looked at so that you can see the ones  've already tossed out and if you see something in there that we've trust out the to you makes a lot of sense you can let us know please bring that one back or let's talk about the reasons why you got rid of it maybe there's some other way we can make it work so that's going to be the focus of the next meeting so at the end of that meeting in theory we'll all know tentatively what the results will be as we leave that meeting and then we fine tune it we'll look at it some more those and the last of tennessee is kind of a large one i'm hoping we can get it up but it's part of vermont gas putting in their line they did a survey of the whole area and they were kind enough to give us their data files so we've got a printout of their survey and we actually turned a lot of those into layers for g i s so that's why we can pinpoint all these signs and all these coverts these are all very accurate because they all come from the from i guess survey that was done so in the appendices we actually just have the survey itself printed out my recollection however is it's a big file so i'm going to see if i can make it available so that if anybody wants to look at they can but if one of the appendices scuse me if one of the appendices is missing it's that one because it's just too big to load up on the computer so unless anybody has any other furthe