was driving to work canyon road right live was better maintained than route two in the interstate monday tuesday wednesday thursday and friday so one state truck one but the by my house every couple hours maintaining the road to town roads and it went on from what i saw and this is just me speaking were very well maintained at one point a tree fell across canyon road and before i could even get to the phone i heard a chainsaw and i went out it was also out and taken care struggling through the woods maintaining power lines and look at one line up and another one they just as knocked down and they've just been doing a fantastic job of taking care of the storm playing out so i want to personally thank them for your courage you cheerless well these people have been out of their house twelve fourteen hours a day going home getting a couple hours of sleep and going right back out not a fun way to go into the holidays but they're doing it and doing it very well so thank you along so it took a few days but like david said it was tree after tree after tree on the lines and that's what took so long to get power restored is it was just slow go and another tree would break behind and they'd have to go back down the hill to fix it but all the emergency services highway utility companies so they stuck with it i knew it wasn't easy but there's a lot of hard table and this kind of just gives an overview of what the permit procedure is for different activity is and what you'll see there is there are more keys in this column which means more things can be permitted by that is contents of the aids that you would take with him when he moved house as far as throw rugs furniture those types of things you do not need a permit for if you want to change those out to repair them so those are some of the additions to the table on the planning commission on also wanted to make sure that we were going to be putting more people into the flood plain new dwelling unit was already undertaking them one day prior to that storm right right and after irene one of the concerns that many property owners in the flood plain brought to us is that the town's process things out of that the r v review process allows us to be administrative it makes a clear differentiation between repairs and maintenance as opposed to upgrades or expansions for the latter we should be strongly discouraged and you know in continuance of existing days when my question though is is do we have a clear read from fema of whether this will sail with them because that was an issue yes so we have had  that for any man made changes to properly you do need a permit to do that but then team also recognizes that local communities have the discretion to exempt small activities so we kind of use that guidance plain management program that's how we have to be dedicated to that would also require a level of additional stuff resources to run i have had some conversations with a chip they had a vision of planning commission to see what those activities primary structures that we know have you know many of those esplanade at the end of church street out of the the mobile home park and some of the structures seems to be the area where there is  where you enter the program as a community of live eight and nine and if you work your way up to a community of one you start off you get a percentage if you enter the program the moon i had thirty five thirty saves on the ramp and many people and i got a lot of good feedback i received about e mails today six in favor two against so i was interesting to see so we got a down this process with a schedule of the open of the public in march and if so are there any changes the second part of the other any changes we want to make to the document before but then there's some kind of open that to the select big question before it's like tonight there's there's both political and sort of technical aspects on the technical side i'm not so concerned because they actually don't think that the changes that i don't actual problem with the changes that we're proposing and also there are opportunities to make further changes in the future as long as we have the support of the town with with the process my concern is on the political side i have said in previous meetings that and i'm going to say good now i don't see the need to move forward expeditiously from a practical perspective for it now i'm concerned that the perception will be going on we're not sure that we understand still and that's what i'm concerned where we're sitting here so it's up for their public perception of exactly so i want to add to that because they also thought it was very interesting to hear some of the comments fro options that we could consider and we checked out phase one phase two if there were some other things we could do to allow for the development that that's what the character of her county and have a public meeting i think in january could still do that a the relatively modest you know prize for her the mixture of things you know perhaps concern or fear about what might have been through both the existing language and the practically just to redraw exactly where we are the reason that we're that we're having this discussion about something it all right now is that originally we thought that it was necessary to revise  order to allow for the kind of development in gateway that would support the planned expansion of the water sewer system what we found is that it's actually underneath grease the other way that the only way that really makes  time to rethink the zoning aspect of it i know that that leaves uncertainty for people who want to develop the biggest certainly right now is will there be water and sewer not what is the zone and once that decision about whether there will be water and sewer provided that area is made that provides a much clearer picture i think for for developers i think as a slight but what i would like us to be able to do is to provide certainty  that we increase some of our tax base and do it we have very few economic development areas in our town and sometimes for sometimes it's good to find that balance and kind of the support they get let me an assumption you know if we were pursuing the water sewer extensions you know when you think how far out could that be how far out would that be if we moved to this quickly as possible when would one be in not the hope of what might be built but the concern about the wrong things being killed so how do we strike the balance between pursuing the development that we'd like to see in according to our power plant one of the few commercially retail develop and areas and yet avoid the kind of development we don't want to see here right because even if we wait till the approval and the water comes through people might start buying and  for something the other thing is if we know there's a certain kind of economic development that we want to support there knowing that they're coming out would make us feel better with the bond to if we knew other businesses and people were coming in i  feel more i'd feel better than all our eggs in one basket the mobile home park i mean to have more users coming on and knowing that they're coming would be a good fit oh yeah i mean i think i think that's that's really what i would like to see we think those of all going away but really it's just been put off for a while so you know i would encourage you to try to figure out how you can get the community  to slow this so far down that you actually end up with a zoning that i don't think bits of the town plan in its current form and you end up with something that you actually don't want out there and i think that you know people we need to beasts bring this back sooner than later probably at the end of january for a discussion on how could he face that and when can we face that but it would be a mistake that for larger lots would be acceptable to various very large portion of this town that would preserve the town plan and preserve the potential of that area with water sewer service exactly those concerns would be realized there are you suggesting that that developers lucilla's a in the day after the water and sewer commission takes action and approves the construction of lights out to the certainty right the political certainty of those making those plans years out so if we don't make changes at the same time that we're saying there's going to be water sewer service out that's the only certainty that anyone has to work out so they're not going to do you're going to go to some interim well i'm certainly not arguing that we do nothing with regards to something i'm arguing that we take time to do it right and doing it right means doing it in a way that's timely within the schedule for the for the development of the extension of the water and sewer line if if that indeed happens i mean that's that's the big uncertainty now and you know i think that actually what's happened is that before we had a situation where we thought we needed to change the zoning in order to allow that extension to happen and that really put the cart before the horse because of the as several people brought up the desire to help the zoning come out of the planning like townhouses rows of townhouses i mean what i'm back to what i think the vision of the town plan was mixed commercial residential it's already got high traffic flow  to if there is a place for commercial development of some scale it seems to me it's one of the few places outside the floodplain that has high traffic and could have water sewer so when i think of the variables that say that residential cuz that's what would sell right i mean that's what i understand the development pressure and you know what i've heard from a number of folks in town news we should be looking for more commercial in terms of tax base and in terms appreciate the comment about the plan again became in town because it does it can feel like there's all these hearings and that you're not really sure where people stand and they need to be part of it and so is there a way to do several phases we're working off of current zoning and what we heard at our last meeting a lot of the little amendments we're proposing some people don't like some of them but that wasn't the problem the problem is this is wrong so that's going to take quite some time but we we have an opportunity maybe to support the kind of economic development we want right now where we could have several phases where we're not going to have more of a larger engagement process where we're going to do some real town visioning and we're going to really look at designing once that's done but does that mean we don't look at any the amendments proposing don't really change we're going to go out there currently i don't think in a large crack there are small amendments becomes have gotten you know there are certain things that people don't like that can be addressed but overall or not these changes i'm been at least as much due to the lack of availability of water and sewer as to the sun so so is what we do the situation we've got a theory now is a product of those two things we're talking about changing one of the pretty for the fundamental in for good reason good as one of those changes are perceived by the public as as i mean she that goal and the small and that's the challenge you know particularly with the situation that we're here because you know we're starting from where we're starting out in the feedback we've got more letters on this than anything i can remember you know in the last couple of years people really care about this they did not consider the changes that we're looking at now as  fuzzy when we go around and around and around there really was ten to seventeen for a couple of reasons when i looked at that it was actually a finite sort of list you can kind of go through what were the changes and then there were some ideas about how do tweak i would consciously conspicuously call these minor changes in language to modify perhaps some of the proposals to address some of the concerns that we heard like business yard i don't know to what degree we could include some provision of language about you know screening approved you know things like that that address people's concerns that we had heard that i would consider minor changes where it's really in the r the pitched roof is one of the things that i've heard you know a couple of times and there are pros and cons about the ultimate resulting height of the building versus the setback and what it really looks like and i think people have been the in their vision of fear of what it looks like they don't want to see you know a wal mart building with a bunch of stuff sticking out of a flat roof right and so how do you avoid that kind of thing and it it's not really the flat roof per se it's what it looks like at the end and our village save the water and sewer out there what could happen that we don't want to have happen and what are the changes in it that we could implement now to prevent that worst case scenario and tend to preclude certain businesses i don't want to go there unless i can have my kind of sign of certain height and size so there are some secondary zoning things i think that come up that way to address some people's concern make the changes that we find acceptable to the existing zoning without being able to fix everything to solve some things around the shape of the cape way to be more in my opinion consistent with what's zoning reflect and it hasn't been doing that and that's where these amendments that come up and i think the water and sewer has a long history as well as to why that it's to go out there and how it would benefit the burden of a lot of the people in town that pay for water and those rates now make can continue to grow if there isn't another idea to support the town so i think this has come together all the same time there's an opportunity in february to bring this forward to make some decisions on some key items so i'd like to get to that i'd like to get to some interim you know the modest changes that we find palatable to both keep some of the ends that we share consistent with the term plan and to avoid some of the things that we year over four percent right and i think that that is really the the number that we need to be aware of and consider the the plan number in the budget because i certainly support the conservation fund and  let's go to the memo a first only because there it explains some of the changes that we need to make like you said the fire and some changes that we could make so the first is the reappraisal reserve so you've cers so that the reappraisal reserve is scheduled to be seventeen thousand two hundred dollars so a decrease of ten thousand two hundred dollars i'm comfortable with that it could mean their tanks and every truck is going back up their tanks in the town and they driving out so were metering that would no doubt me don't worry we're guessing what it is how much water they use and then where billing the tap only on a meter basis so if you three thousand dollars of sort of fixed payment that is not in there plus the fifteen hundred dollars that is budgeted for their station years and then eleven thousand dollars it's an increase of eleven thousand five hundred seventy town in terms of not just the water system consisting of the take in the winds but the fire hydrants the fire hydrants meet inside them is not high maintenance on a given day but over the course of the year the they have to be when they're hooking the trucks up to take the water somewhere it's almost never looking up to put out a fire in the village it's almost always so all these uses are actually  a person in the house to stress to two hundred thousand dollars roughly five dollars or how how do the fire impact fees affect this conversation what are those for if not for th right but so how does this number reflect that the budget already and then for the five and the fire about it and we're going to add one more time that number one one five seven zero one one five seven let's talk about let's talk about the library reserve quickly because we did increase that to sixteen thousand as we left the increase the fifteen thousand in there so we left that mine at sixteen thousand after last meeting which was an increase of eight thousand dollars up over last year's budget for this year's budget and on a restoration of prior funding  unless there's a strong opinion one way or the other i would propose going back to i'm not sure you know the plan isn't there to show that it is needed and i think that we've heard actually some good ideas about alternative funding sources for the projects they're proposing on a very old building that may not require such a large commitment of property tax dollars for the pockets o in addition i the plan out there currently doesn't require and this is not really fully developed enough to commit a lot of money to lumpy you know you have to cumulate some years and expected others but the question is is that they didn't run out right and because they didn't come here and and get but that's kind of what i think taylor is saying and as you said you know it's kind of uncomfortable if we can get down to around two percent and then the voters have the choice to make in four percent or if we're proposing two percent and they also want to vote for the  i don't i don't feel that there is that that is less less valuable than other things that we are putting in the budget not getting that decision right on so you know i'd rather give them something that that we can of what we did this year and what a reasonable increase would be so i don't need to go dig out the numbers because i hadn't planned on talking about this but for what we did in mileage this year we could we basically terms of the miles are tired right because if i'm looking at the twins we drop a big round number in there that is not consistent with what we actually did this year we did more paving than was planned why didn't we just save the money because we're paving roads early that we should we should be doing them on the plan there's a reason we have the plan so we're not wasting money paving roads that don't need to be paid well so if i just look at the dollars for  y fourteen actual at two fifty six s we have fifteen budget to ninety and proposed budget of sixteen three ten right it goes up a lot it goes up a lot someone just dropped twenty thousand dollars under there and said go well i'm doing twenty thousand dollars of extra paving here you know what and i know appreciate you sticking with the still because they i think i grabbed the nuances of this the good weather and and having some of the other expense items reach the budget levels right i would i would like people to do is as taylor is suggesting is budget to the average and th thousand and seven and they were approved and they have an automatic escalator in the budget here and i believe that it was based at a time when fuel prices we're rapidly increasing and they back in two thousand and seven they probably were putting a hundred fifty thousand dollars into the basic budget and now we're doing three hundred thousand i think we've come a long way but what point do you say gravel roads that if you give another thirty thousand dollars in ground well is it going to make any difference because are you going to have enough were scheduled to be able to complete it so this year we didn't in saying so we did two point eight four probably more we did two point we did over three miles last year so at a cost of one hundred two thousand dollars a mile it's actually smart because i did it based on the plan next year we were planning on doing two point five six miles and we've increased the budget twenty thousand dollars so we're going to do less miles so even if you said it prices are going to go up percent which they will aren't because crude is going to fall into the summer and i've talked about this outside of meetings with people but we need to know what's happening with plan b if it changes and mary drive is going to be favored this year that's not a decision that anyone but the select what should be making because we have approved and adopted this plan and  we're spending taxpayer dollars saying merry driver can last another year and we should be using that money were designed to go so in addition to making that change if it's like gore wants to we also need to get this whole thing updated where you know america merry driv plan so that you know the roads are designed based on their lifespan not based design based on how much money so that's the idea right so that the budget needs to reflect what we're facing not and that if there's an emergency there all right anything anywhere else you want to go to i mean we can make this to we can have this discussion on this you know my discussion last year about the  level funding just to be clear yes i'm looking at some variation so what they've done is they took that two thirty four number from that year and they removed whatever thirty thirteen thousand but anything else that those unless anyone wants to go through it now i'm inclined to wait for a draft of the audit i feel like we do need to spend some time in session talking about them i don't want to do it tonight just because of time but now that we're not talking about area right there in appears that by connecting the mobile home park the project costs can be absorbed entirely or a new service connection to having a subsidy if we do not connect the local home or the cost to extend it to the gateway requires a different  actually separate relationship with the people of this extension because what this is there anything then to prevent that from from claiming the benefits in the future you know if if as we service the debt over a twenty or thirty year or turns out and say we need this much to be able to do that plus we need new connections to pay at the same rate everybody else  so this sounds like a revenue bond issue issued i just make are we discussing a revenue revenue bond or general obligation bond and my question is how does if it's a revenue bond how does the separatists or in agreement with this owner road someone wants to extend their service service to a new house we don't ask that all the users to say yes why would we ask why should the marsh your commission it's all the users to say yes when we're talking bun the bond is going to work on the water sewer commission is going to take care of everything the rates are going to cover it and i work on it but i'm a little stuck on how the great work with multiple districts and deals if this is the work i've got is already  commission you know we don't have we don't require a vote of all the users their commission makes decisions about the budget we have to buy through the time but the rate structure of those things go through the mission and most of the conversations about that about we're already all at the end you know if i want to build a development can i get a different school tax structure than the other guys that are already there starts to feel a little  somebody else to pay for the wine i'm thinking the project probably doesn't work and i don't think it i don't think that's true at all i think that you and i'm not done yet do john the same continue to play this out if they if the project works with  reduced rate for everybody eventually out of the habit yeah the venture while you have it is that long term this project is going to be good for the town and there's no reason to hold the stuff over what is common practice for systems like this to negotiate different different they're still working in different structures for different zones based on the economics of doing what needs to be coming in there's a little more to this act isn't a mobile home park perhaps sentence so you added to it that the version where since two thousand and ten the fund has raised two hundred sixteen three hundred thirty eight thirteen two hundred sixteen thousand three hundred thirteen dollars from taxation and spent one hundred eighteen thousand one hundred fifty two on several offer belongs in here was the question of the current balance to which do you want that on their well first question is what is it well looks like it should be about ninety  i'm not sure what it what purpose it serves well it's part i mean i understand what purpose it serves by thinking moes muddies the water it was so sweet i don't think it i don't think it gives you enough information to so i would propose taking out the sentences and retaining the original language that's the last two sentences of the what's next to the last sentence so it would be because i want it's two sentences  or moving out like that and proposing mixing the amendment and going with the original language second so my motion would be to go with the original language on which does not include the sentence since two thousand any discussion that so the motion is to approve the conservation reserve fund question for march twenty fifteen thousand favor say aye right and opposed to attack that's on those system is going to function through the winter now it's been hooked up to the replacement class what to do about the installation of the system the certification is going to be subject to really long know this is not the first time there's been a failed septic system in the state due to improper engineering or construction i don't know of a circumstance in which a town has been held liable for something and been approved by an engineer built to specs and our problem i can tell you we're we're part of a lot of problems great stuff already not that not that we need to be should fight against them but it's sometimes just wait and i do have a pretty strong opinion about this clearly you know that people septic systems fail around the state if not on a daily basis a weekly basis whether it's because of faulty design engineering construction for the town to get a town meeting in perth deadlines all kinds and in february probably looks to be a little bit better we had talked about whether we were going to get votes of our new districts it's not close enough to take a look at it and decide where it is right so i think we still have the ability to continue our objections without requesting he developers who are offering this very very active situation right now in the in the state with regards to renewable energy development and there is the opportunity for the town to reduce drawing up that are the let's try to get out because there's there's basically a window and we want to get this out of the first quarter next year because otherwise we're not going to get it in the timeframe before the expiration of the federal tax create an r p for this project and you know in that when it comes to the board if you could include information about either the tax credits or other you know examples of who's been doing this so that there's sort of a context  piece that would be on c p a services but i think also should be done given you know we've tried the c p a for now and we should see what the market looks like we had to get the c p a at the time maybe