thing we have many items that need to be picked off the table any concerns or questions about the order of the terrible war won in terms of number of items ok very good so we will move on the middle of the circle last week probably of the seventy five people and they stray now number of speakers and that effort continues again primarily driven by sister pat and she's got a number of other a great vibe down there could have asked for better weather especially week apart from when we had a ninety degree day but that was all powered by volunteers mostly to live work so really great to see what i commend them for  it's it was awesome i mean we heard a lot of great feedback about things that the dogs are you know we hear a lot of residents who connect their with their dogs and i will admit that there is probably twenty five to thirty households in town where i can name the dog up have some real conversations but rather do a great job of delivering goals and little balls over the next three meetings that mean once a month at the moment and over the next three meetings even big lift of coming back to us of that document to help write entails with goals year and demonstrating our commitment to our small local businesses by establishing nov twenty fifth two thousand and seventeen as small business saturday small business saturday draws national attention to the important role that small businesses play in boosting our economy and community according to the nine states small business administration there are currently twenty eight point eight million small businesses in the united states they represent ninety nine point seven percent of all businesses with employees the nine states are responsible for sixty three percent of net new jobs created over the past twenty years and where is the small businesses that employ forty percent of the employees in the private sector in the united states and whereas on average thirty three percent of consumers call the shop will of done it small and apparently own retailers and restaurants and whereas ninety one percent of all consumers believe that supporting small independently owned restaurants and bars as important and where this seventy six percent of all consumers plan to go to one of more small businesses as part of their holiday shopping and where it's when you ski for mot support your local businesses they create jobs because your local economy and preserve our neighborhoods and where it's at advocacy groups as well as public and private organizations across the country have have to come up and join me just in case you have any questions about this event although it's been going on for quite some time and i think it's pretty familiar  co sponsored by the city staff also recommends waving the two hundred  o'clock people come we're actually trying we're going to try washing them more at least wiping them down in the pumpkin patch it saves a lot of time when you start loading and putting them on trailers our unique you know we will be needing a lot of volunteers there will be a list on from port form at some point you know how people can participate but it takes several weekends and we need all the help we  carve or whatever there are other things people do it's amazing event inspiring to see all the energy and effort that you put into it year round and the amount of you questions from the public in the middle are huge kind of taking a room and taking an area and performing at themselves so it's really interesting how this is can he is coming out to support because many and it's also they're also going there are charging a small fee and i having as a leadership team so this discussion really took for tonight and so we have discussion we're not asking for decision points about anything but we have been to what we feel is a team that there are two kind of pressing emerging things happening that we felt an obligation to bring to you one is that we are being encouraged by multiple funders to put together what they're calling a transformational mean street project so thinking about how we improve the total streetscape of main street as you enter the city down to the rotary obviously it's seeing a lot of development as a result of the farm base code the developers are seeing conflict with the way the utility lines currently are and there is a real need to improve the streetscape to kind of signal to people coming in and out of the city that they've reached a neighborhood make it more of a place and a place making streetscape improvement s so we are getting a lot of courage when to move forward quickly with an area engineering to try and apply for some bread deadlines that are coming up early in the spring concurrently we're hearing from you heard from the pool committee a few meetings ago and we're hearing more from the commission and from others that we really need to figure out how to move that conversation forward to move that conversation we need an area engineering plans right now we have kind of massing scoping plans which we can't do true cost estimates so in order to move both of these projects forward we've been having conversations about how do we plan for that over the next couple of months how much staff time do we have to dedicate to that to those  efforts and how do we move forward bringing engineers on to do you know thirty percent design documents for both of those efforts to try and get accurate and accurate cost picture and therefore we want to bring it to you tonight as a discussion i don't get your thoughts before we brian anything to you for and actually they're both for appropriation for funding for pulmonary engineering or certainly well before we brought you thoughts and requests for more information one of them you know we've we i think is a staff team have heard a lot of interest in moving things forward kind of getting to decision points getting things going getting to construction and we can't are getting to i think there's an even if we feel like as a community we're not quite ready to make that financial commitment i still think that there is a moment a marker to need to get to real recommendations about what these projects code look like and then potentially wait for a funding opportunity to present itself or something else to present itself so you know there's a lot of to the point there's a lot of sequencing here and there will be a lot of opportunities for people to weigh and for you all to know this big cost moving the power line so we're only going to build two stories we're not going to build three storeys or we're not going to do that stretch to the energy goal because we have this associated development cost in the public infrastructure so really i think that right now we have believe but again we want to go through the steps to test this assumption that some public commitment to putting together that transformational project will maximize the potential of that what we're hearing from the funding source partners is that they've had proven success in the last couple of years doing this project and they're given credit from those that they go to for money for leveraging other dollars as well so instead of have no there was a limit to how much we had to spend and we didn't go down and as a result we do find ourselves digging things up that we just spent quite a bit of lying to the surface which is a little frustrating as i understand the suit in the way it was made that's what they could afford to do at that point in time with those files but the whole concept of  one they are not similar we think that they were at similar places in their need to move forward both of the need to get from kind of conceptual ideas to pulmonary engineering and then they're both needs in that they would call that kind of political policy call about do we do them together to ease sequence them what are what are their financial leverage points that we have at our disposal but we need to put that information before you at the same discussion was that there are a number of ways that you get to that and there are there's either something like this or you piecemeal it or you coalesce incremental funds  questions came up you know how do we do this and those were the those were the solutions as as i recall them being discussed on the committee over conversations about having and i don't want to set up a situation where we're feeling like it's one of the other i think that so i guess the way i look at it is i think i i strongly believe the community did vote  participate in a large discussion about form this rather than saying oh that's not fair but participate in a really long robust conversation about what we want in the street to look like and to me actually with a little bit frustrating about it is you can see some of the buildings going up but the two just opposed to pictures you know in the package this is really what people were and it was in promised but this was the vision we set up with that that's what we what we put in place so part of the connection to me about the two is right now of these large capital projects we have had a conversation about i feel like this is the streetscape one is one that's really been really really well th a community center and talk about it and these are all those components all that work over those years has gone into this in korea that vision and then i just see it as it's our job to figure out how to execute it and how to make it happen alleviates the requirement not the idea but the requirement that we have a discussion of them previous to the course of this and i don't think that that's the last or this removes that completely words the public picking up the tab for a sho for work that might get paid for otherwise i think there's still plenty of space for that conversation to be able as well so it's just a slightly different perspective of i didn't i do feel like this was part of a really warm robust public process that had a lot of participation you know i don't know that it's walk i think it's our job to figure out a form that i think it's our job to decide how we want to put it before people and they can tell us no but in the administration cost associated with doing two different fun things for two projects and splitting them up if we're going to be able to do two for we can wrap in the one that's obviously profitable from the from just the street revitalization project movement talking about pool and city hall and parking i think just is it if it's fair to say or maybe you could talk a little bit about the climate from funders or concerns about  r so there's so i will get to that i also you know i want to also say i think you're right i think some of these other conversations have we've marked since i've been here we've been having more publicly you haven't heard me talk about main street yet i think the other side of that though is that if we are a growing city that is going to support infrastructure like a new pool like a nuke me and i like things like that we have got to have the growth we possibly can have to support that and one of the ways we do that is through these kind of big street transformational projects so again i think there is that connection of why they relate i think if we simply build a city hall and build a new pool and bill end up being a community center we're not that's not going to spur the grand less growth we need to see to support doing those three three big projects as wanted so what we're hearing from our state and federal partners is that again they've had proven success specifically and say dobbins in st johnsbury in the last couple of years doing these kind of joint projects and they are getting a lot of praise from their funders from their federal funders and from their state funders for doing these big leveraging projects so they're not just kind of piecemealing funding and very small projects but leverage leveraging their funding together for a bigger projects the funds they're specifically talking about you know the state funds are a little more secure and likely will continue and those are specifically the funds allocated to the water in the waste water infrastructure  at the federal level they're talking about funds that are currently are ready now allocated so in the existing federal budget where there is some uncertainty that they will be there in the future and so again we have this moment of opportunity right now to go after funds that are already identified when there's some question marks about the future additionally in a week we have heard from the president that there will be some infrastructure bill so if that is the case if there is some opportunity for infrastructure funding in the future again having those plumbing or engineering plans ready to go so you're more of a shovel ready project presents an opportunity that's kind of the climate essentially we're you know we're hearing there is an opportunity now we want to support news as proven success doing big projects in the last decade we trust this city to get things like this done hurry up and put some things together and come to us and present it and it looks pretty good you know certainly i think brian's point is good you know keeping them very close to this process and making sure that there are things that can continue commitment will be important  considerations that the reality of trying to pull off multiple big capital projects in the same time period both from a financial standpoint you know be able to pull those off financially with the tax base to support it and provide a kind of staffing project management standpoint  is a reality and it's a concern it's a conversation we had as a staff team about are we ok pressing pause on a city hall discussion for a couple of years to allocate to a pool mainstreet discussion gateway this entry point to our city create a new play space and put the pool back on the options for our community that's more important mediately than solving our space in the next two or three years having said that i think we would be very quickly you know if we even if we are successful with this i think we would be coming back very quickly to the counselor community and year two or three of that project to start picking up that city hall conversation again  another challenge and one of the things we will be thinking about as we out line financial options for you is the impact to the a rank center if we press pause on that conversation the challenge of the o continues and there will be a financial impact to that that will be somewhat mitigated if we can successfully located child care center there and have a better comprehensive use of the building but there will be a cost impact to that and that will be part of what we would hope to lay out for you as you make financial decisions about moving forward with either of these projects or both of them but i think yes here point yes i  yeah that's a good question so again what we're being told right now is they are not interested in the two big funders we spoke with are really not impressive piecemeal project you know we start talking about well we could do a three million dollar project on the following or we could do this or that's their business and if it's not ten million dollars we don't want to talk about that they really are looking for a ten to fifteen million dollar project which are very rough back of the o calculations with that essentially mile of road between the city the railroad bridge it is in that ballpark and it is the gateway and it is where we're seeing development and it's where we're having these conversations with and is where we have significant costs joaqun significant pedestrian needs we already have a transportation alternatives grant for engine sixty thousand dollars that we could leverage into this project we have pieces of it right so i think our hope would not would be to stay far away from piecemeal the going to do  do my other concern as i was listening was how much of that one mile stretch of road have we already done a lot of the push structure stuff for flood warning and all the other that my understanding my but i think it's being proposed as you know contracting with an engineer to look at both projects or would it be separate it would likely be separate engineering firms weston sampson has already done a lot of work on the pool so there are some interest in keeping them on board sourced so they don't repeat work they've already done and then bring out another firm to really focus on the main street project that would require you know engineers who can design water systems and paving systems and streetscapes systems so i'd likely be two sets of engineers but but you those are what is the council's tax rate goal for f y nineteen what are your priority areas to fund given that we may need to identify cuts what are your priority areas for service reductions and are there any new initiatives and programs you would like us to consider as we build up our initial recommendation of the budget is to present a level services budget that provides fifth to systematically walk through the permits poll and try and make some educated guesses about that grand less impact on april first and then of course how it connects rates likely will increase the state approved in point two percent quite twenty four seven coverage would look like we are talking about a salary contingency line which is something i've done in the past where you essentially fund a contingency line but don't find it in people's budgets doing a modern website with the branding materials we are in the process of developing we have a discussion ongoing about how to provide some additional regional mental health support to meet the goals your tolerances what your ideas are ideas for high level ideas for ads or cuts and what your guidance to us is what kind of budget you would like to see delivered on december fourth really this evening while sitting around this table that's good policy critically so good conversationalists to go out there that's something we usually think like a lot but i have to get to  i think this is really the chance for the loop for council to live a little earlier than the typical what typically happens is really and this isn't to make it sound like it's a bad process but typically into it they think this is an opportunity this is what i'm seeing if accounts in a way in the earlier in the process of by the way before we go through the entire exercise is there something you're going to reach back and pull back i'll be honest with you know two years ago we for the first time i started tracking on the side of the ship what changed and documenting what had happened before was that it was just changed and the number was changed she wouldn't know what program maybe was a woman and you could pass a budget and it's not that there was a thought put into it but as we said here and that happened a couple times but it's your past from where there wasn't a total understanding of the implication because of the number had been reduced as a result of a meeting that took sixteen and we have very different information in june two thousand and rare but i think what happens when you don't have this kind of council conversation about where there is tolerance for ads or reductions is that you get our priorities and we will try and interpret those priorities based on our shared strategies and goals but it's helpful to us to know what are you here deal breakers or what are your absolute half what are the things we're kind of like deliver on things were really that we spend forty years we thinking about i'm really excited about it so some kind of temperature from you about those areas for priority it you know maybe we do know what's going to happen there but really for me as far as priorities i think the conversations i may be willing to have  or implementing things that we've been talking about if there can be no proof as possible but you know a lot of good argument to show that this will contribute to something else happening i think i may be willing to have a conversation around it but i think we need to look really strategically at any ads that may come to us as trying to become more competitive in terms of our compensation packages for poise so that we are able to you know i think we've made some absolutely phenomenal hires and i think that's been key to really getting a lot accomplished so i don't want to continue to tie our hands in terms of our ability to attract and retain really top notch talent that said i think that you know i'm definitely in agreement with brian and i appreciate the discussion we just had because i think we do need to be  so you know i think yes my message is i'd like to see evidence of real strategic thinking both in terms of how are managing the for identification of the areas in which you know we've been making these investments and we're not really clear that there are you know high leverage or i mean i don't i don't feel well equipped to evaluate current areas where we're testing and i want to make sure we're continuing to focus on the s consumer price index that's how much stuff costs and stuff does not cost the same every year so we make adjustments about our assumptions about what things cost so that we're looking ahead and saying the same pound of salt that we bought making sure that we're not developing past our ability to act to protect our citizens as well i think it's extremely important so while i agree with everything that was said here at the table i think we need we're at that stage of that tipping point of saying  what are we going to do as a community and can we in fact police it can we protect it and can we serve it it's been a really well expressed desire and priority from this council but as i look at the questions that we have to answer throughout that process i feel drawn to and really impressed with how much outreach we've done and how much we know about what the community desires are and that's because we've spent a lot of time frankly asking people what they want and frankly i think that they've answered us and in some areas i think they've answered us enough that some action is required so i will not mince words and saying that last year going to the budget proposal or i was really proud that we brought forward the you know the low increase that we didn't bring forward you know but whether or not i was authorized to say or not what i said the taxpayers i believe we're doing this because we also understand that there are capital projects and there are the words that we have outstanding we have taken time to incrementally build the staff back up to a level that i understand it never will be there these big projects we just talked about the paul main street to see those to see investment in those areas feel as though we have worked so hard to get to a place for we can actually i i think the timing is right for it for us for the asked for a relatively significant investment and some of these larger projects that people have told us again over the years and sometimes decades are sure they needed it i also think that keeping with the vein that was brought up in america they say specifically those but we should approach it with exactly the way the various talked about it and that we need to spend money on the money that's going to be well spent and supporting future growth in the future of the community and doesn't necessarily mean it has that hannibal asset dollar of you know what's going to happen as a rhythm how much private investment can take the place is a result of this dollars specifically measurable to a business moving in arousing being built but what's the intrinsic value of the community again a community facility would be a good example delivering services and looking at the literary community facility that quite frankly is going to benefit the community way that does make it more financially sustainable because while we do have the luxury of working for we don't have the ultimate luxury of having the last check book so and i understand that by saying that it's asking the human strongly that we were were really coming in that place in the midst of a plan and even let's run is going to make every hard decision that we have to make for us and that's you know it's a great process is a great process to bring the community together but every time i sit down with a group of residents who are thinking about this issue of how we kind of bring the whole vision together as a cohesive plan i'm really impressed by the amount of the amount of answers that i feel like we have and it's action time  said and i guess with that though in recognition it's worth having on that i do think it's really important that if we are asking the humans that are here view more without adding to the numbers of them that they have the ability to do things  i don't come with a magic number in my brain i knew this and i know that that's not hopeful is a strong point i think what will be interesting is to understand what some of these capital projects look like in terms of cost even if it's a very very rough sketches small staffing increases programming pieces together that equal seventeen cents that's a that's difficult it's it's a more challenging thing to explain and it's more nuanced and you can listen more make sure in the budgeting process it's a much being seventeen cents and sues for and that's a different conversation as hey this is exactly what those four cents for and if there are some other additions under there for technological care that's that's one thing so i think if we can get to that piece of understanding what type of large refreshment expansion might be on the table i think that forms the second number and then i just want to point out that the cole was two point five percent of the expenses at different uses of revenue streams that they're not currently exist right  thank you that was really helpful i appreciate the conversation but before we move on though also turn and say any comments questions concerns from the public those that need for instance they feel like they have that in that specific situation to have the entities that they're giving money to be subject to open new on public records act that's something that they can go through through the i think it's a i think it opens up the ridiculous cost for these organizations like you said you know we give the food shelf you know a couple thousand bucks a year and the idea that they're suddenly i mean that's that's an undue onerous the marijuana legislation is refreshing and positive that there are at least finding a way to call us around being proactive towards policy development and where a potential funding will go and frankly it's more important for us to be focused on how we react to it versus opposing your supporters and ensuring that frankly the incentives and other community that need the funding to offset any so there was one revelation of allowing legal notices to be posted on a web based media exclusively and that's something that i don't post as well i think that there are a lot of our own residents constituents here that might not have access to the world to die off economically you know don't have the internet have computers tech literacy for a lot of reasons i think it's still important to maintain having a place for places where   i know it's a lot of work but it's one of the amazing exercises of democracy that people can do that so and there are so many people that i've seen and for one reason or another all i would agree that it would be too bad that go backwards items the executive session will take place with council on the city manager there is no action to be taken today so the result of the executive session will just be the council coming back out after discussion in the holding a vote to adjourn there will be no additional business could read into it and never yes just there's no performance issues given that you said it's a performance in august