the continuation of the budget and for an answer committee meeting that we started on february twenty ninth two thousand and sixteen this recess mvm continues where we left off and so when we ended on the twenty ninth we completed testimony in we will now go through the review of the proposed bill for consideration and so first we want to thank all of those of you that made the effort to be here this evening we thank you very much and so you know how we're going to do it we're going to go through the bill as revised after listening to testimony on the twenty ninth and the members will be able to see their comments regarding the  any other non substantive changes in the may have considered regarding the drafting of the legislation so page one basically members under section of zero zero five were definitions as you start  placed in this area in any questions members in this component let's move forward mr whitaker any other reasons mr chair mr coe some of the stuff was in there  that we haven't had a chance to talk about it before the line above says director and means the director finance of the county and you asked to strike or unauthorized subordinate is that the reason for that i think the chair believe it's for consistency with other sections of the code they're trying to go more towards is director mean that the rector as opposed to or the author i subordinate thank you but what does that mean in reality the mean mr x is the only one that can make the decision my understanding is the can enter into the i mean a straight of process procedure and conduct rules that further enhance their ministration of this chapter in the most county code and they can consider additional rules and amendments that have the standing of law as a way to prove their defined next change would be on page ten essentially just for what's unusable or on suitable and it's going to be excluded for certain purposes on the next section under three point four eight one eight five q any questions on that unsuitable component mr warren thank you mr chair i think there was some concern about the wording as determined in the director's sole discretion and i think we had had a bunch of testimony relating to the use or employment of egg advisory group i'm assuming but i want to so many things the if you would give everyone the courtesy to our members as well as to our  go to i would consider professional qualified agricultural practitioners making a determination on whether or not decision is to remain or to have it voided was the intention to have the advisory group make a determination prior to submit all to the director or only after the director and maybe  after the director has made a determination then does it go to the group for review and i'm assuming any decision by the director remains appealable to the tax review commission formal a decision by the board on the application of the law and whether or not it fits within the parameters of permitted use is one way to address that we could consider having them work through this agricultural working could be the appropriate appeal review board for that type of use in this particular area where it's unusable or unsuitable land for agricultural use i don't think it would be appropriate for and actually probably the other instances as well be appropriate for the director to make a decision rather than everything having to go through the crew or the ag advisory group but i think it's if there's a decision and an owner feels is correct then it needs to go through the egg advisory group for a determination i'm assuming that's the way it's been set up is that right now there is not there not an appeal board at this current time but of course you can add that in but if they if the owner still doesn't agree with the determination by the the ag group assessment so i would you would to me right now circumstances of course would be dependent on i'm sorry it would depend on the circumstances but yeah i would probably be something the board of review could he director sole discretion in getting countless e mails in regards to the particular words and i believe that a lot of people not i was a trust anything but feel as the director really doesn't have the capacity or knowledge or whatever experience to be that sole determination to make that sole determination and so i think even in any parts of this were that is stated to have it also include and say it plain as day black and white that it goes through that advisory committee but my follow up  is that who it is and so i mean if we're going to save that then that's what it should say because currently i don't know what who is this board i mean we you we all you might know but it does it s he has a skills but in the agricultural field i think the majority of the people really prefer not to have one single person to be the sole  determinations so that's just where i very uncomfortable in that particular sentence and have heard it resonate in this community too so i just wanted to bring that up at this time thank you for doing that and again  know i will say that we listen to hard to the testimony on the twenty ninth and therefore we've made some revisions and part of the discussion over among the members is to bring up additional points of view that  into this at all because they are a group that was organized to assist member who's been doing what he's trying to do but they're not involved in administering this in any way as far as i understand it thank you thank you for th t maybe they should do would make the recommendation to the apartment here and he would be the one who will make the final decision but it could have been the person making against is what you intend to propose and and then we can be sure the other members look at the same thing at the same thing so that would be my request to you if we are aware of what you want to propose if you can assist know in listening to all the members discuss their concerns and whatnot i'm wondering if i might make not an amendment at this time but a suggestion that might save us some time you have done a lot of work you've that looks sounds like you've listened to you know reading this you've listened to some of the things that the testifiers have had the same thing you've done a lot of work to to change this but we're talking about  and the assessment committee and another you know committee that already exists i think that a lot of the testimony talked about inspectors why don't we have like we have an office of economic development out of the mayor's office why don't we have an office of agriculture out of america office have several people have all concerns about ag go through that office and they say yes lot of the we're trying to attack a small situation with a huge sledgehammer and if we can do it through a department or office of ag that might solve most of the problems that we're trying to fix here just something for you to consider and for the members to consider is two or three or four people up in that office can really do all the whole lot more just like we have our office of economic development that does a lot of stuff for economic development these folks can be the aghan specters in the true people who say yes this is really what ag is and yes they get the valuation yes they get ag water rates no this is not this is a gentleman's farm sorry you get market value and off you go and then that can be appealed at the border variances appealed and we have situations like this already and let's let's not reinvent the huge a quicker and better way to do it but i'm willing to go through and do this right to get that concept into it here might be a little bit difficult but even after all the hard work that you have put into this i still have a hard time supporting this so if we can figure out a way to do it the other thank you we appreciate your comments mr coach of program because of the issues with water in the pass and it never worked because it was always a family connection of a friend into play from at times conflicting what their responsibility to perform is we don't want to put people in that kind of situations if at all possible measures  that we should be looking at various options on how to have the fair and equitable policy that a place where everybody and it doesn't take a special and foresman component to year thank you chair we did was we just added in a definition of the assessment year which would mean the calendar year starting on january first and the on december thirty first and just clearing up that the assessed values tax reclassification exemptions for an assessment year shall be the basis for the tax bills for the subsequent tax year tax year is previously defined as the fiscal year july first through june thirtieth of the following year that's just a housekeeping matter was important to clarify that thank you to the corrections to three point four eight point two nine zero considerations by the director just housekeeping and changing the reference from three point four eight three five zero to three five one just because we're  any other questions members be for a parcel or a portion of a parcel that is using the owner's residence notwithstanding any long term residential uses on a portion of the parcel this essentially will allow property tax to give the homeowner class and you've got the house and the accessory dwelling which is typically ohana it's ok to they have the on a you can still get the homeowners value only on the only on the main house or wherever you're claiming the homeowner's exemption and it's true that you cherry it's for if you have a long term residential use on the portion of a parcel you can still get the homeowner for the entire for that portion the portion of parcel that's being used for homeowner received repealing section three point four eight three two five which is the current rollback provision it will also be addressed in section three point four eight point three five one thank you christians proceed thank you section nine which starts said peik six is repealing three point four eight three five zero which is the current dedication provision and it deletion goes to the middle of the page on chair starts off with a general statement which is similar to the existing three point three five all moves on two definitions the first definition for this section is our cultural use goes on to define a whole culture a dedicated area family subdivision which just references a subdivision code it goes on to do a land use defined land use change this is a key term a land use change would be a change in the state land use classification from ag to urban or rural district and all these have to be initiated or authorized by the owner a change in the county zoning for mag from the ag district final subdivision approval of the dedicated area however a family also be a land use change but it and if you go to subdivide the dedicated area would be a land use change however if it's a family subdivision as it's defined in the southern region code title eighteen then it would not be look we're looking at so it might be helpful i don't know if they can read it thing some people need to put in a fund can you for that i'm just curious i don't think they can read so really if they're missing a lot of what we're to keep questions members the critical nature of the definition of agricultural use to try to get a little closer since nobody has copies just yet and if that's hard to read on t think it because the definition of agricultural use is the fairly good old pivotal definition it would be appropriate for him to read if you don't mind they can do that no thanks for the you chair agricultural use means the active commercial and primary use of land for any of the following culture crop production life stock production forces grazing of animals used in livestock production production of life stock brought by products and plants for food fiber or energy flowers and foliage tree farms bees and related natural by products biomass nuts and seeds agricultural use does not include the use of areas primarily as yard species setbacks landscaping or for the planting of fruit ornamental trees flowers and vegetables primarily for home use for land in the urban state land use district agricultural use does not include or grazing a mental trees flowers and vegetables primarily for home use because of the use of commas it is better and i know how lawyers work sometimes can we put it on record that the part primarily for home use applies to all of this fruit for ornamental trees flowers and vegetables because otherwise somebody could say if you plant any fruit trees it is a that doesn't count as agriculture use i just want to make sure that it's clarified that the fruit trees are primarily for home use and the flowers primarily for home use that kind of thing that what the intent is of that mr erdogan mr i yes mr coach thank you i just want to clarify things you know any of the questions simpler if we just read them since we don't have to use at this point the public out there cannot read mr thank you chair livestock production means the reasoning of cattle sheep swine goats elk deer rabbits or poultry for food or for the production of food owner or property owner means the few simple owner of the real property provided that for government owned real property owner a prop owner means a lessee of the land where the lease allows a specific agricultural use for the provided that the for the on a land owner or property owner means any individual or entity holding an interest in the property just on  the owner or property owner definition is a little more important because i'm going to need to cut that out please in the bill currently only owners are allowed to petition for dedication the next definition is revenue generating means producing income from the agricultural use of the property substantially continues our culture use means a dedicated land shall be an active continuous and revenue generating or culture use drop the period of dedication the term includes necessary and customary fallowing periods tree farm property and every now let's go to the next components of the proposal for this section thank you chair this next section was the period of dedication so it kind of change from what was previously presented and it states now all dedications shall be for a minimum period of ten years the christians members  leases if you had an existing least that was in effect prior to one of the effective the in this bill this language in item c would allow you to dedicate for the remaining period think it's important to protect existing lisa's from any impacts of an owner's decision on how they're going to proceed whether it's a dedication or not if they choose not to dedicated leaves  real quick off that if somebody has a remaining they have a twenty year lease when this comes into effect they've got six years remaining so that's all they have they would where it would have to dedicate then is that you're saying period of ten years and also along with the previous verbiage i have the discounted in the percentages and all this of that's all done at this point ok ok to get rid of that incremental ok and then i guess will continue on with the existing reception but i think i heard comments in regards to people have leases that were never recorded it was just sort of a you know you leasing to you and you do ag for x amount of years and or year to year whatever so there's no real record ation for some you know there but the existing leases it requires those owners that are able to produce evidence of an existing are cultural use lease properly recorded with the state avoid land court we have in here currently january first two thousand one thousand prior to that that's the effective date essentially of this bill so if you have a lease recorded after that day you should probably dedicate but if it's before then it would be honored of course and we've also put in that expires prior to july first twenty thirty the thinking behind that was it again it goes into effect in two thousand and twenty so if it expires after ten years you should probably just dedicate under this bill since it's over ten years left  when the questions are in this area miss joy thank you so that means that the if you have an as miss cochran mentioned if you have an unrecorded lease you have until two thousand nineteen to record is that correct yes mr white under the current language you'd have until two thousand one thousand and of course you would have to be for a period that expires prior to twenty thirty right that those plans already dedicated would have to resubmit a petition vice you know that be your normal years of the september first hour for the first roll out we did state that  for the those eggs values effective fiscal year two thousand and twenty the department would need them by july first twenty seventeen for that first roll out we're assuming there would be a massive amount of petitions coming in and they would all need to be reviewed by the ag for a cultural dedication advisory committee so we need a lot of time for them to go over it so we're asking for that twenty twenty year applications be due by july first twenty seventeen moving on to what would be requested to be submitted there would be an agricultural use plan on a form which would be provided by the director where the owner is leasing the land and i mean i'm sorry parties leasing the land then they're working with the owner to do that occasion we also need to get a copy of the lease or recorded lease perth or not perfectly it have to be recorded lease agreement and we're asking that the term be greater than or equal to the term of the dedication the next section requires a declaration signed by the owner stating that if the petition is approved by the director the dedicated air shall be used only for this is that agriculture you set forth in the petition for the duration of dedication period and i'd like to stay here that there's also a section that allows a process to change the agricultural use the next section is good like a copy of a license i believe this crime bill we amended it once you dedicate you get agricultural use values the percentage reductions were removed so that that's the exchange in exchange for doing part of the questions at least to me and i and i have the same question is what happens at the end of ten years they they went through this for ten years now the dedication is over do they have to rededicate again if they want to continue to get  do they get rewarded for surviving through the dedication zero this proposal deletes three point four eight three two zero and it puts it in essentially exact same language in section each of three three point four eight three five one each read it for everybody's information  these section each each classification an assessment of dedicated area of the dedicated area shall be classified as our cultural and shall be assessed for real property tax purposes with consideration given to rent productivity nature of agricultural use the advantage or disadvantage of factors such as location accessibility transportation facilities size shape topography quality of soil water privileges availability of water and it over and over in testimony that devalues be using i like forty to fifty years old almost as old this man and i we are going to change that over going to leave them the same because that will make a big difference in what the people pay can be certified in because this sort of using no i realize that the fact that we haven't done it since nine hundred sixty five tells me that you know we kind of could assure that question did a long time ago we lost a lot of money your first so we're twenty sixteen it's going to be a few years before you can actually get this official dedication so what about existing people new report or something you know with a new report won't take effect when when i guess when we get it what the law doesn't take effect january first two thousand and nine but the current law it takes into account ag use value so if the aggies i don't see it right off the bat but is it still in there as if so what was the rationale for canceling current or existing dedications it would seem to me that would provide a nice transition period for those who are under dedications currently masoud thank you chair on item d those on the i guess is the second or third line those whose lands have been dedicated prior to thereof to specific agricultural use including those whose lands have been dedicated prior to january first twenty one thousand shall submit a petition on a farm prescribed by the director by september first how many are we i guess this would be for mr therea do you know how many dedications we have that are in existence now that would go beyond are well beyond two thousand  new dedication just for clarification for another ten years correct but i thought we said earlier that if you had done six you could do for more  takes into account leases for that existing leases section on well i don't think that's going to work again because this is a problem we don't want to be shutting down business it's perfect particularly diversified agriculture did are doing well i cannot supply tha place you know we're supposed to be supporting eggen diverse and buying ag not killing it i'm sorry you got to be aware of these problems as we make laws and that's why it's good to have participation of people because they know what's going on i'm reading papers they're doing it thank you thank you for right after you've already teddy kidded so you're not getting any credit for the property for the years that you've dedicated the land and then you've got a petition and who does a petition go to what is this petition what does that chair the work petition you can think of it as an application and yes they're currently the way the bills were it is there isn't any i guess there's no you don't get any credit i guess for past dedication and the next section goes over the review of the petition section eight ok so the chair i think i would we are allowing them to run out for dedication purposes right you mentioned that are right however the owners of property if they've dedicated and they have four years left on that they still have to  over again because they're going to lose their dedication as of january first two thousand one thousand is that correct on the way it's currently worded mr victorian oh yes people who own it and you you know soon as though there are not very many dedications remain in it seems appropriate just to leave the existing dedications in place and just move on with new dedications as necessary mr is this i mean well as we're going through this is this where you would want any amendments in those areas i would like us where you want to go all the way through they come back so that and then we can do this if i was going to get and we never finished the review hundred dollars filed in the calendar year immediately preceding the submission of the petition any entity or individual may use a single tax return for multiple parcels provided the evidence of the culture used by that entity or individual for that parcel is provided  some clarification this is essentially the income requirement saying that if you want to dedicate you need to be able to show twenty five hundred dollars of gross income it is not a requirement or t m t that you show twenty five hundred dollars though it's currently worth it is if a company has multiple team keys under its control or an owner has multiple team keys under his or her control and the their business needs to requirement can be we for certain circumstances new farms initial problem is more than one year away and hardship and that would go through the agriculture dedication advisory committee continue on to item six on p g eleven it's on my income tax but of state and federal right the state income tax i stated i made five thousand dollars no matter how many partials i had five thousand dollars is my gross income for the  hey i you know i can't make because my expenses are so much but gross income is prior to expenses it's just the dollars you took and i write this to occur thank you yes that is my understanding so they make twenty five hundred dollars and they spend ten thousand to make that twenty five hundred dollars they're down seventy five hundred you're still counts because they made twenty five they brought in twenty five hundred  part of my request to staff as always been we rate a very good committee to report to explain what we did in committee during the discussion and review so we can highlight those concerns you bring up misplaced committee report besides the body of the lead the solution i certainly would like an answer because you know i'm sure people are very anxious that's why they're here you know it's their livelihood it's a decline i want to know so the answer that i understand is ok at this point german would comment that that is one of the reasons why we're having this advisory committee i totally agree and let's hope that the people we put in their committee can answer these questions think you should thank you yes mr cox just real quick to highlight on his vices comments in regards to horses she said breeding but boarding mr i believe so it's horses but as mr turia said again that's a definition and he brought a very good point it on your petition for dedication you'll put that in agricultural use so it'll be up to the agricultural advisory dedication committee to make that call and to save the ultimate may be the ones to see with the director having final are the christians there's let's continue to review moving on to item six lower part of p g eleven evidence that the proposed dedicated areas currently in our culture use as tests as specified in the petition evidence that the dedicated area will produce farming prior to the expiration of dedication period for land in the urban state land use district owner shall present evidence that the proposed dedicated area has been in our culture use for five years immediately addition and that the annual gross income derived from the agricultural use is greater than or equal to five thousand dollars per acre during that period as evidenced by transcripts of the appropriate federal tax return i'd like to just clarify that fertile land in the urban state land use district so it's not necessarily and that is language that is currently in the county code right now so we copied that language just to keep the realize that this is in the existing code already but as long as we're a here and working with the code maybe that may be something that we want to consider yes urban lay a state land use district is meant for development i understand that but if somebody wants to do agen there and keep it from being developed i'm i don't want to have to penalize them a little extra more more because they happen to be in the urban district so i have i have some issues with that even though it is existing in our state law with the whole idea is to incentive a haze agricultural none of this bill so far incentivized but if we're moving down that line let's try and get more incentives for agriculture and this number eight is certainly not an incentive for doing our girls even though it's in the urban district i understand that part because in my district been no i'm not to soldiers or anything it's it's something that would fit perfectly even in an urban district and to make them have to do more i don't know doesn't doesn't seem right thank you thank you it's a victory and you know i have a similar concern because if you look great up in the mountain between a highway and wyo loni we have all of that area which is being bashed and other agricultural use to get groups and cattle and horses in there and so to penalize them for that purpose because that is urban that was change and that is part of the urban corridor and i used the cultural norm we don't agree many times but this is one of them we do that you know when you have these areas and then they're going to be put out and change and be a better life we're not incentivizing agriculture and i in fact i agree again  down under our purview although it is stated in law already i believe the committee can make its appropriate revisions to the code ok thank you and  but moving kind of fast then you know you look at it looks ok and in the more you think about it and where you think of questions you need to ask but on the number seven we said evidence that the dedicated area will produce farm income prior to the expiration of the dedication period so assuming it's a ten year dedication and you have to show evidence that you produce farm income what evidence would you have to have i'm just curious what are you guys talking about the  you came up in discussions earlier that there are certain types of farming activities that may not produce income for twenty or thirty years so we were hoping to you know catch that and also again the proof would be again this is the petition so if you're going to the cultural dedication advisory committee for review also to see if it's sufficient proof so the intent would be to kind of deal when we have people always wanting to plant for like twenty years before there's a tree is this clip this is about oh thank you that was one example that was brought to us i mean i can't think of a whole lot of other stuff make sure that it's another step for active agricultural use on the on about right and i understand there's been some abuse but ok now i know what this is about thank you thank you and the other questions members m understanding is in the county code in this bill it's repealing the section that goes over this thank you so we could we could simply strike number eight and that would leave all ag on the after the committee completes its review of the petition it shall transmit its recommendation to approve or deny the petition to the director upon or see the committee's recommendation that director shall make a determination as to whether the proposed dedicated area is reasonably well suited for the proposed ira culture use that there perturbed include and be based upon the productivity readings of the proposed dedicated area and those uses for which it is best suited a study of the lands ownership the revenue generating capability and other criteria is may be appropriate in the director's discretion the director show also make a determination whether the proposed agriculture use is in conflict with the overall development plan of the state if both of the terminations are favorable to the owner the director may approve the petition and they clear the proposed dedicated areas dedicated land provided that for lands in urban districts to direct the shelves so make a determination with respect to the economic feasibility of the intended use of the dedicated area and in the event that all three determinations are favorable to the owner the director may approve the petition and declare the proposed dedicated area as dedicated land in order to place prospective buyers on notice of any potential retroactive application of tax and penalty the owner shall within thirty days of notice oprah will record the dedication in accordance with the procedures of the bureau of conveniences or land court and shall submit to the director a copy of the recorded document within thirty days of recreation the idea behind this chair was  it goes to the committee they make a recommendation to the director we put in some guidelines for the director to follow and also for the committee to generally look at how ruby their decision that was the idea behind the extra language in the middle and the bottom part i believe was from existing language regarding urbin dedications thank you  he's a nice guy i like him but he says no it doesn't fit what i think makes up on revenue generating all that what recourse do they have no the board of review you could go to the water probably could go to the board review and you can you can go to court also but here we have these group of experts and they said this is a great idea for free fish that fish what they point in time now they've got to go to another process going to the border of you variances what what what would they have to do all they have to take legal action what would they what would determine what they need to do  next think it be up to the individual we we don't make the decisions for them of course but they could appeal to the board or review that water if you want to try to picture a point for a pond like they could go to court you know that's always someone's right  i guess the idea behind it though is that charter as mentioned earlier mr carr the charter provides that you know the director of finance ministers are real property tax function of the county and this is definitely a part of the real property tax function s director goes to the view dedication of razer committee and then director will take the comments and then look at is this serious suitable for the keep ability or purpose i mean is it overall is that in conflict with development plan of the state i mean the list goes on and on for mr oxman log to make determinations on it just seems like quite a bit and i know it's in conjunction with this advisory but it it's just a lot and then the applicant these two you know has the extra burden to fire live within thirty days and i mean this thing just goes on and on and on it just becomes another huge hurdle and expense and time and energy and they've got work to do you know i just i don't know this is a whole lot the section  attacks depart agricultural department or ag assessors or whatever it is that's solely you know the votes their attention to this in particular could be quite helpful rather than what if there's a quorum i mean who knows so it's just a chair seems quite cumbersome here in my opinion so i don't some of the the previous assessments sometimes may not have been quite so expert so i mean nothing against mr areas staff but  but what mr cochran said and i thank you for bringing up this current members remember this is just for real property taxes all of this is just for real property tax values imagine what they have to go through now planning language in the is part of that the existing language for dedications of the processor we exacerbated it my understanding reviewed by the committee and that that is my understanding or p t his any comments noted that is taken straight out of a three fifty german it's all existing language the finance director and literally allows him to make up rules that are not defined in the ordinance itself so what what criteria is he going to use when you're looking at the report or the study of land ownership what criteria is you going to use for basing the productivity ratings you know so these are questions that i'm sure that figure out a lot of things in just this one section not only sort of multiple i mean you got to be an attorney to figure it out and you know the layman not quite understand all of this stuff and no fish to my colleague you know i don't mean to make fun of them you know but i think we get right back to a simple answer inspectors of assessors or whatever you want to call and agricultural valuations for the true farmers and all the other parts of here can feed into the t i think we can we be simplified ish and you know i hate to agree mr college but i think we can i think we can i know you want to finish this so let's get to it because we're near the end but i really feel like you've done a year michel but it's really made more in my mind and i think enough people's mind that are out there they're more concerned because there's more verbiage  and i agree with him i kind of feel like we're making something very complicated out of something that isn't complicated you know we've heard over and over and over it that the intent of this is to catch the cheaters to meet only we were going to catch the cheaters and you know we just it was said earlier today some other thing i was that you know we always make laws and name people figure out how to break them well that always says that somehow we have to have enforcement by the law and we're never going to solve whatever we come up with we still going after cheaters until we have inspectors and i see this going the way of the bed and breakfast long we came up with a perfect allied with wonderful we filled all let's put some money let's try a pilot program let's hire some and cheer it with all due respect my husband was a water cop and he didn't care if you were his brother or his uncle but you also was the person that went to burst the bus to cockfights and he busted his uncle mode in once so you know there are people who are honest and do what they have to do but i really think dead we ought to try out the egg inspectors and see how that works and if it doesn't work then maybe we have to come up with something like this but we've been talking about this now is i don't know when we had our first team for a long time and that was the answer and we're here to china again and i feel really bad because i know how hard you've worked on this and i really want to say think you for the response that you tried to get into this bill thank you it means a lot to people when they talk and we listen but i don't know if we're ever going to solve this problem with this bill it's kind of really complicated and lot of us don't understand it so how much how is the public good i understand it so anyway i would say let's give it a chance this go through the whole thing and then we can kind of see what's the next step but i think we  upon recommendation by the agricultural dedication of ours or committee we the requirement the submission of the transcript of the for a clickable federal tax returns set forth in section d and the requirement of the production of gross farm income greater than or equal to twenty five hundred in the initial year may be doing a lot of saddle up in just getting ready and there might not be any income because just working the land you know doing what you gotta do to actually farm so that first year there might be no income from it that was the intent ok and the second part was for the farmers or the initial crop harvest is more than one year after styles from the crop so you're right i don't know what you said some kind of planter now and if it takes five years that would be the idea behind it ok thank you thank you of the questions members this cochran thank you chair i think is the first time it's we're actually using the term gross farm because we're doing like ag ag value ag used definition to everything but and the only time we use the word farm is in tree farm i'm just wondering if that ought to be defined more precisely i mean because like you said you know i mean a farm meaning you're picturing crops and not could be a thing he'd cero the it's just gross farming called i believe that's what schedule f is about that's how we got the language for just use gross farm income it wasn't meant to try to proceed thank you i wonder gee transmit over closer use plan to the department of planning basically once it's approved we asked that our that the department of finance transmit a copy to the department of planning i believe mr victorian i had mentioned to me earlier that it should also be transmitted to the department of water for a property tax purposes next thank you chair section i homesite for those parts of the real property which contain a dedicated area that have a dwelling unit or dwelling units on the parcel there shall be a home cite benefit on the agricultural plan in the area of the home site should be subject to director approval the home site should be a minimum of six thousand square feet in area and shall include those portions of the parcel exclusive of a dedicated area and be the portion that is unusable or unsuitable land for agricultural use and i was standing the foregoing the homesite should be classified in accordance with section three point four eight three zero five zero this chapter and should be valued in assessed in the pen that lead from the dedicated area the fair market value of the home site should be determined annually assessed by the market data and cost approaches to value using appropriate systematic method suitable for mass valuation of properties for taxation purposes so selected and applied to teen as far as possible uniform equalise assessment county i know that's another mouthful that is also currently in the code as to how properties are valued that's in section three point four two nine zero essentially the purpose of this home site is for the parts that aren't being and how it's a farm for their agricultural use those areas will be carved out and be a home site they'll be classified and valued independently from the remainder of the farm it was the purpose behind it was essentially the parity on for all home site areas so the ag use area would still get a useful you ation the home state area would be  according to fair market value in those types of things  think a lot of people had testifying about the home side and i got no problem with that but what about those parcels that have for example some of the ranch is and some of the other have what they call gongs in the boonies that they don't use very often oh you can will figure out the wording that's not a problem and mean something is one way away from everything and not usable on a daily basis ok so i'm going to make sure that the report understand what i'm trying to see but those are written those like little ranch houses that maybe sometime when they're herding cattle when they can't get everything into the ranch and they stayed there one night and two nights or whatever it might be as mentioned earlier today this will be the homes they will be carved on their culture use plan that plan will be reviewed by the agricultural dedication advisory committee probably if it's like you said they use it have not quite sure the term used but once in awhile very rarely far in between and it's part of like you said whatever farming activity it would probably be a farm use so that committee would probably make the determination that normal that little whaling or shack or whatever you want to call it is part of the farm it's part of the farm you so but it would be up to the committee of course make the recommendation to the director they do care if we have a com you know the the house on one giant parcel and across the street directly across the street was a house on a smaller parcel and they look pretty much exactly the same in the one on the bigger parcel was valued at way less than the one on the smaller parcel and their exact same house and a boat had a home say i think the home side on the bigger parcel is even bigger but it was valued at less than the smaller parcel  essentially goes to the current practice where the home say area whatever percentage it is of the larger whole parcel it's given that percentage of the fair market valu so if you have a home site exact same home site on a bigger parcel it'll be a smaller percentage value then a home site on a smaller parcel and hope that makes some kind of happens when you say the larger parses because you it's just the fair market value of that ten acre lot let's say ten acres and the home side is one acre the homesite would be one tenth of the whole ten acre lot that would be the value property tax purposes right now now let's say you had the exact same home say a one acre home site on a two acre lot it would be one half of the value of the two acre lot and my understanding is as that's just my understanding of the examples i've seen used in the past so if someone is not having these the present assistants were expecting so if i have a elderly woman who has a home site and she's been designated a and have her whatever these the property to raise the cattle is so that he taxes will definitely go up end today's in this explanation of what we want for that home state and maybe living there for over fifty years and been having these rates in our sainted this elderly woman i am talking about like on although their assessments will be changed to be more uniform like other wood non dedicated properties to state that taxes will go up is not is kind of premature because if your sentence double and your rate goes down two hundred percent your taxes don't go up so the crux of the portion of this bill of homesite is to address the inequalities i mentioned several times that this bill this is current language and but the reason why we bring it up is that if we administratively change the process overnight you get more than this model people in the gallery so the purpose of this bill is to bring bring it up and be clear that we're trying to achieve uniformity so although somebodies assessment may go up the question to you is is is the court process fair or not and we're trying to apply the code the correct way to be uniform so that everyone is only level playing field and that is why we're bringing this portion up so that example that i give you folks are the example over time and time again so it's hard to say what do you want things fair or not and i think everybody would say you one wanted done fairly so passing this would not change existing ordinance other than to bring up the fact that we will be tried to make assessments for all properties on the home site uniform thank you thank  yeah so mr period just you're saying that i is already in the language somewhere and it's just not being applied at this point those mysterious yes it is existing language in there the current practice of how we assess a home states predates my existence with the counting but as i mentioned if i just literally take this language and apply it as i see fit i did tire agriculture community will see a difference without it becoming public and that are that are that is the dull fall that happened in the big island this was a dressed to him a little in the past year old measure and similar to the we're just bringing this before the public and the council so we're very clear what what is going to happen in the future ok i have another question  that the six thousand square feet have some heartburn with i know somebody who has a two acre lot for a while that was not used at all for farming this person is a farmers a very well known farmer but now for the last four or five years the place has been he moved his bananas in the few other things there and pretty much all around his house right up almost to his house is farm and he sells those bananas and he sells the the produce that that he makes right there so so to say his home site is a minimum of six thousand square feet i have concerns about that state if this body chooses it to be as whatever he wants it to be we are not opposed to it we're just trying to start something  mr white just like to point out that the current system is totally inconsistent from one property to the next because the the size of  the size of the property it really has a lot to to do with the amount to do going to get taxed if you've got a two acre parcel and half of it is homesite you're likely t be taxed on a value of somewhere in the neighborhood of one hundred fifty to two hundred thousand dollars if you have a property that is ten acres and you have a smaller home home side that's a quarter of an acre you're only going to be taxed on two and a half percent of your total value so it could be something as low as twenty five to thirty thousand dollars that there's just no consistency in the way it's being being calculated no and i think in some situations change into the home side valuation  the last time that we discussed this mr turi you had come up with an average valuation or average assessed value increases and i don't recall what that was but do you recall tierra i don't really recall offhand other dead i would advice is this committee we've mentioned before whether or not you wanted to create a separate classification just for dedicated ag and for them to have their own r so if the concern is arise in taxes and you you folks all control the rate so if that's the concern you still have another mechanism of creating another classification which i'm not encouraging or not it whatever you want to do is whatever you want to do but i mean if that is the concern you have all the means of controlling taxes i'm just trying to give you a fair assessment it's so that we are all all equal in that field but as far as taxes that is not our recommendation it is really the body that the site how you want to tax the values that i give you thank you thank thank you chair on second half of page thirteen changes in our culture use centuries over the process if a person in dedication wants to change to another use b c says they will submit  application in writing to the director showing on new air culture use plan explanation of why the dedicated air is better suited for the proposed subsidized culture use as opposed to the agriculture use initially approved by the director and the transition plan once the director receives this go through the scene process for the initial dedication set forth earlier meaning going through the agricultural dedication advisory committee and it goes on to say that it will be the change working out i have a blade or something and maybe id to grow something else maybe tomatoes or whatever then that is a requirement for me i have to come in with a that you know you wouldn't do that to yourself to make yourself come in it would probably be more if you did something like you went from vegetables to ranching and idea behind the need for the change an egg plan would be the inspectors would need to know what you're doing on your land because no one is telling you what to do on your land it's what you tell the colony you're going to do on your land and it's already been vetted by the agricultural dedication advisory committee s the need for the approval and the revisiting of the new plan is because it's all or just allowed to change their agricultural use after they get initial dedication they could go from fifty acres of vegetables to a half acre of vegetables and you know these do have to just concentrate on teaching their students and then they have all cunt compliance and paperwork that they have to do and then we lose focus of the students is just everything is standard isolation that you know all these people work that they end up doing and before you know it you teaches to retire from that field of teaching so i just see sometimes  getting so excessive for the farmer who works the land and now i have to constantly work the people work for the county so that they can do their farming and i wish  silly section because i can understand them having to report something if they're going to reduce the amount of acreage that they're using but to change from one crop even a crop type to another  i just don't understand why we need to get involved in that but the term i just mr there is really i should just let you know that this is just existing language that's carried over from the original not agree with me but i would use another word you know what put these folks have been dealing with is that fear that you know if they are because it isn't it doesn't explain what you're saying it looks like it's very broad and it includes any change you want to make you've got to come ask somebody and they're saying well what if i'm planting vegetables and no i want to cheer something else like fruit or whatever or if i'm raising cattle and i do know i wan tick and what you have to come back i think this is goes a little bit too for i totally agree with the idea that if you're going to reduce if you have ten acres and all of a sudden you're going to do one maybe maybe but you know this really said this is already existing so this is this language is currently on the books right now as we sit here mr therea so whether or not not it's still in effect right so the chair and the theme what's happening is that none of us really vetted every single word oh in our existing language and now they we are refined like oh my god what but as mr tears shared with me during our break it's in action and we all have been living with it and i can see where now if someone were to go in and really dissect it and take things out of context or whatever you can interpret it that way and perhaps another director could also and so forth but so it is kind of disturbing to pretty much the new insertion into this is that encapsulating this right now because if i recall back in the day this is actually called the home site yeah inequality in how we tax in the home state on ag lands and but everything ag in the year i guess it has is currently existing on the books but it's this home site section that i think this occurs we are here to make sure that it's just a court with the accordance of what is pertaining to sole make you know you know i mean lettuce through corn the productivity rating may be similar or it may be different i don't know but the change in crops dictates how it's being assessed for use tables so that could be one of the reason i'm not saying that is but that could be one of the reasons why i get asked it from the from the state these because they do codes so i can see that as being one of the reasons why they would ask for you to notify your change so your valuation would change in accordance to whatever your crop is there's one set ag value those serious essien different a different uses or is how you're assessing the different value then they are taxed according yes there's table so i mean sugarcane is being assessed different from coffee ranch in the soil type might be a very different says between mckenna and cool i mean they have all the soil ratings and these are just tables that would look you know part of what the administration through the departments by code is already authorized to do you wouldn't have to come before this committee or council you're already authorized to do those administrat discussion this is not the first time we're talking about this have been to report changes that whatever or ask permission to change i think people don't mind if they were to report a change but they don't want to have to submit and ask the director can we change i think that's that's the issue especially for now that it's clear and if we could put some language didn't hear that it's small stuff doesn't matter you know they were kind of concerned about the latest to beings right but it doesn't say that so it is a significant change i can see that they might want to discuss it but small stuff i think everybody's willing to report but they don't have to go to a process to ask i think that's what's causing this on to section am the right to inspect since he says the director of the directors authorized representative shah the right to conduct inspections of the dedicate air in the surrounding the and that reasonable hours in the dedication period when the director or the directors authorize represented desires to expanded extended by the director only on to and cancellation and on are this essentially when the owner to counsel for a portion or the entire dedicated area during the dedication period and it also goes into if there is a violation of one of the following that cancellation will occur they are you know dedicated air is not being used in accordance with ag plan  land use change which we went over earlier this evening which excludes family subdivisions condominium a zeeshan of the property property taxes or delinquent failure to complete the conversion within thirty six months for the change of agriculture use and overt act which makes use of any portion of that a key to their improbable or any possibility the example is typically you build a house in the middle of your moving on to all this is the penalty provision retroactive application of tax or penalty so if there's a cancellation they'll be a rollback tax it always century be the difference between what would have been paid vs what was actually paid with the agricultural use versus fair market value and along with a ten percent per year penalty they'll be treated as a property taxes paramount lean upon the property going on to p waiver of tax and penalty so if you cancel there might be a retroactive tax and penalty depending upon whether you fit into one of the items in the first one is if the state line your classification was not as you know was in petition for by the owner death or serious debilitating long term illness or injury suffered by the owner in those situations where the owners individually acted actively engage in their closely use of dedicated area  essentially number three is a government taking number four as a natural disaster number five is loss of adequate water so if any of those occur you can pretty direct or to cancel the dedication and then the we will be a weaver of the retroactive tax and penalty moving on title q there's a grace period for certain specific reasons such as if a bank takes over a property if the  lessee on the property bandings or terminate the agreement prior to the end of the term and the owner's unable to find in the one unless he or if the taxes are delinquent the owner can apply for a grace period during this grace period they'll be a market value however they will be rolled back or cancelled at the end of the grease period they'll continue to do the egg follow the ag plan and the period in while they were in the grease period won't call towards a dedication period so if you're on your two you are grace period for two years after you're done you'll still be on your two or three at that point three no grace period shall be granted for a person within five years five expiration of a prior grace period moving on to our agricultural dedication advisory committee sensually this is the committee three members to alternate members all members shall be individual at least actively engaged on a full time basis bureau middle list of my names to the mayor for nomination to the committee each nominee must be approved by the or the mayor would nominate and then the council approves staggered terms of five years advisor make recommendations to director and adopt admin rules they'll be staffed by the real property tax assessment division and finally on appeal any party agreed by injuries suffered by the owner in those situations where their owners the individual e the individual actively engaged in the agricultural use of the dedicated area what about the other side where you've got somebody who's a let's see and the owner dies and the family says forget it i'm selling the land what happens there and the lessee is kind of stuck out in the cold to protect the lessees if you think about it because they wouldn't they'd be able to keep their land regardless of the owner passing away at the owner's family might now i want to honor the lease but if it's of recorded l you just made it clear land use change also included subdivision except for family so the vision the idea behind it is when you condominium eyes or you subdivided the whole parcel kind of disappears in a sense it becomes too new parcels or units of a parcel and for tax purposes we have a hard time taxing or something that's kind of not existing anymore if the if you sell divide the original team came in disappear we wouldn't be able to tax the new subdivisions that's why our subdivided the lots parcels now but in kind of a new my the land generally the land still is owned by both sides or all the members of the condominium property regime is just they have certain percentages of the land maybe some people wanted to a it states that you should treat each unit on its own so it be hard for a dedicated parcel they give condominium for us to treat each of the units as part of the whole again it was kind of be on their own so we're trying to follow that is best as we can it's it's a ten year dedication we're hoping people could do it before or after thank you you sit through a german  it's not an opinion of mine or anything it's if it's a deal breaker it is not hard to ultimately identify within the c p r what were the dedicated areas from the original parcel would overtly hopefully they could maybe amend the dedication to each c p r for those areas already in dedication so i don't think it's something that's very hard to change on this council says is something that you cannot do so i don't see it as a major problem but it just be additional work association spoke to them in a few of their members of our amenable farmers union united was also interested so to have like three entities because there's nine you know  nine people to submit so each entity could submit three names something like that and if i recall i asked the question of mr watanabe that day but his testimony he did not want to be the soil and he was very very open to have others be part so that's where i wanted to submit those names but again you know if we're not at that point to actually put it in the language i'm officially that's fine but those are my comments in regards to this section and  public hearing on it in an open meeting that make the one aware of what is the specific looks and then they are decision on whether or not to adopt the rules thank you been this cancellation section i think it says failure to come very to this substitute agriculture use within thirty six months of approval of the request by the director and i don't know maybe i see how the process and there is a transition period that we can work with them so we need to keep that in mind when we talk about you know the rules and the guidelines that we have a special case going on here and nobody wants to see almost all these plans that were dedicated to sugar would have already expired at twenty years dedication because it would have see the maximum benefit for themselves so with that said chairman i would almost be land you know to go for development and who don't you know and i know again i know my stocks a lot said they're working with the administration but there's not much transparency so we have no idea what's going on and i think the focus is right now taking want i think people want a north end or at least what have a better idea i watch happening not conceptual their own pet avocado and maybe put some cattle in ban put a mangled cheese that doesn't sound right what are and what is the plan  i don't really have any comments except for that i know that initially when the bill was presented a few months ago you corking group which was created by the by the year committee to work on this and they've dedicated hours and hours time on it and so i know that currently the they didn't meet with you which was very helpful and i have received correspondence that they are still in opposition to the a few items in here so i have to stand with my with the a working group on their opposition i do however feel that you've done a yeoman's job in a issues which has multiple issues i must add that i i believe that that one section on homesite seems to be reasonable other than that the rest of the bill no questions i think you know we've had a very very thoughtful review of this and i group mr guzman that you've really done a lot to narrow the issues on the bill but you know the dedication process remains a very complicated issue and one that you know reasonably and understandably you know makes people very uncomfortable  because the outcomes are not crystal clear that some of the outcomes are really hard to discern so i'd like to make a proposal for the can the committees consideration and basically what my proposal does is it strips out all the dedication language for us to deal with on a another day it leaves in some of the the small housekeeping issues in the beginning of the  bill and that it retains the only the homesite portion of the bill so without or with your concurrence and like to pass this out to the members and take a short recess to allow them to review the bill matter what we want to do here and some good things have come up tonight i think it is imperative that whatever we're going to do we get a copy that we see the whole thing and that we give the public an  comment before we make any final decision i'm sorry but you know i represent a lot of these people that are here tonight as well as members whose man who is that with the egg working group i repeat going up country and my phone and my e mail i who has read the was presented to the committee this evening is basically the original bill with all dedication components eliminated which just leaves the homesite component left preaching testimony on the twenty ninth and as we've heard from some members deceived me it is not an issue the issue of the dedication i have no issue at this meeting this evening to carving out the home sites and making that go forward it is something we have posted from the year one it's been part of the discussion and th just i'm thinking of just striking that sentence of at least the the six thousand square foot here in area a you can still include exclusive of the portion of an agricultural use and the portion that is unusable or unsuitable for land for agricultural use but i don't think there should be a minimum and if if there is if the members would like a minimum been as a minimum of the footprint of the house and any other dwelling unit ohana unit or something like that be the footprint of the house it wouldn't fundamentally be a problem for us we couldn't value anything that's subset of their decks that are so they wouldn't be a problem for us it probably wouldn't be very comparable to any other their legal lot but it is something that we can deal with using size adjustment six that are so i would say for the most part we wouldn't have a fundamental problem and ultimately it's just body to choose the bill that they want to go forward so i w type language instead of the minimum it would that be more flexible for a for the land owner or more stringent mr tyria that you carry when you can go in debt  and we have never really had confrontation as far as the fighting what would be the home state area so i don't see this as a big challenge or a big problem obviously if it's two thousand square feet or five hundred square feet there's very little lots five hundred square feet there that could have a density you know so that is challenging but there are there's adjustments and ways that we can handle it with it so that the the request is not out of the ballpark but ultimately we will have a determination as to what determine as be as weak as what we see so most part parcels on larger farm areas it's rarely really up to the house there is some defining line or front of the when you're saying footprint are you saying the house pat are you going extended further than that so first of all the owner would need to fish in what is that area and we would be there to confirm i would see a yard area space around the home would probably be not agriculture and that would be a determination and like i said i think if there's an argument or discrepancy you see there's a due process for it to work and be reconciled but i don't think that we would have much much discrepancy would we get out there do the site visit and discuss it with the homeowner and then a couple more questions by applying this the homeowners would still avail of the homeowners exemptions correct usage through provided he is the owner occupant that's correct ok and if you add it up light it and if you're an elderly you still can avail of the circuit breaker which would not i guess tax them out of their third well that is correct however the circuit breaker is available for any owner occupant not any more elderly or is not age any requirements amended version of the the bill we started the evening with with the modification to remove the minimum square foot size of the home site  which is a portion of the egg parcel and i'll leave leave it to the staff to move that appropriately and and so that we can continue to work if the committee chooses on dedication down the road  give you my recommendations on potential disposition of the remaining components of the initial bill so we've done things  language for dedicate and remain in the fact and that's the dedication process that the that they've been using and over the years nothing would change for them that would be correct as but understanding that the homes will be a says independently from the agriculture use area and basically market value make a comment we went through the dedication and then here we come out that this is entirely different from what was part of the b seventy and i think some of you have heard me say why didn't we just separate to begin with so we could have a more thorough discussion on if it's dedication is that acacia and i i think the to me when we were working on site but now you have it separate but to me in it may need more time to have this concentration for our constituents but that's just my  introduced it it just includes the portion of the home site but we everything was so huge that everybody had over the whole thing some people were asked a couple times  i would like to hear from as many people that want to come back at another time about the homesite bill because they really haven't been able to concentrate on that so at this point i can't support it because the public really hasn't had a chance to concentrate on that thank you that being said you know i think the in my you know in the best of procedural things the best thing would be would be to file b seventy and reintroduce this as a new as a new item that would be my almost like there's to be of seventies i mean we're taking in trying to move this portion of the of seventy four but you want to keep alive the rest of the of seventy so what is this this is an entirely new i know it's part of deals with dedication and deal with that we don't missing it up with everything else and then let's take a bill on one side and deal with that without messing it up and i think we can get it through this gets too big too complicated and nobody can follow it so i just think comment on the home side yeah some said yes function their greed but it wasn't everyone and i think it's fine we hear from that side just to make sure i believe this is a good guy and i thank you for bringing your foreign and separating it for their call thank you thank you share them oh yeah my my only concern is whether this actually would be in compliance with our sunshine rules because did we give the public enough notice when  when we introduced this bill so if if this is an amendment to b f seventy eight is it the same bill as b of seventy so if we adopt this dispy of seventy then go away is this an amendment to be of seventy or what type of action the community would like to pick because yeah and that's where my confusion is that this is an amendment stripping striking all other sections of the of seventy and this is this is what we're where you have seventy right here so if we pass this out the rest of the sections of the of seventy die and this is b of seventy is that correct is that what it is one of the things that can happen absolutely right  go forward everything else would be deleted from the consideration or we could beso it component like this and keep the remaining subjects within the community for further community work  can be done also or we can do what mr cosas file it and stick i'm up with multiple new bills for consideration as another way to to approach it it depends on which approach the committee prefers to go but there's more than one way to do anything in government ok now i'm confused i'm sorry chair but i don't know that if this will be seen as anything that's going to clarify the situation for the other members but i'd like to point out that what's before you is the original b f seventy there was no dedication there was none of the other stuff in it so to say that this is never been heard before is kind of silly because it's been heard many many times over i can remember when it was first introduced but two thousand and twelve five years ago and after introduction the agricultural community came and said we really need dedication so we formed temporary investigative group self yourself miss rice and mr victory know and work with the with members of the fire bureau and cattlemen's association other members of the ag community to come up with the original  version which included the home site and dedication because that's they felt they had to have the dedication that was more important to them than than in the home site so this is gone not full circle this is gone probably five or six circles as as most of our tax type issues go so you know with with that and i can i can  count but i think it's important to remember that this this is a fairness issue it's been a fairness issue for me all along i realize that it's asking people who live and or cultural parcels to based on the same method of appraisal that is utilized in all other parcels that are not an egg and the reason i brought this up initially is because on my ten acre parcel i'm paying based on a value and my land taxes are based on a value of about twenty nine thousand dollars if i had the same size home so i realize that this is this has an impact on those of us who own and live on ag lands but essentially it's my way of saying i don't feel i am more special than the folks that live in ca who eat who can't farm because they don't have enough space they can't run a couple head of cattle or anywhere else in a in a subdivision and yet their pain or their assessed values are well you know well over ten times what mine is so you know this bill would significantly increase my taxes because i have a significant size homesite but i think it's fair because it's is saying if you want to have that size home side then you should pay the same as somebody with the same size homesite elsewhere this bill would allow people to have a home site that is very small that we took out the middle not size so if you want to have your your cattle fences come right up to within five feet your home you have a very small home site and your assessed value is not going to be very significant as i've said before my daughter's a full time rancher on the big island and i looked up her house and she pays she has two point a small house and yet she pays about thirty percent more in taxes than i pay so you know and we have situations here where we have people who are living on egg properties and doing some ag that are a pain a fourth of what she pays as a full time rancher on the big island so for me this is always been and will always be a simply a fairness issue i absolutely support ag and every other way as far as i'm concerned you know i'm comfortable with ag values i'm comfortable with all the other things we've discussed with respect to you know protecting the ability for farmers and ranchers to continue to pay the same level of taxation on their on their ag the agricultural use portion of the property so for me this is just a fairness issue saying they were fortunate enough to have large acreage and large enough acreage in which to farm or ranch were more fortunate than those folks that are living in and if we have a home site that is the same size as somebody in ca or somebody in muck a while that are our assessed value should be similar to that which is applied to  the same site elsewhere nearby i would take a lie the parcel as a cop for mark well it would have to be something about well so yeah did bring forward a homesite bill which morphed into all of these other issues which again is to cheer i appreciate what you in the staff and others have been trying to do so if i can have assurances that b seventy first and foremost will be only homesite and that we'll give the public at least one shot one shot and these coming to us and saying i'm taking a look at it and say hey yes we agree and we ag values i have no qualms with that mr chair but the way it's set up right now i just don't think the public to be unfairly treated because we give this big picture and now we're trying to bring it back to where i get mr whitish after the quick where i think each year i i really appreciate the work that has been put into all of this then having i understand where mr white is addressing the fairness what i have a hard time i wasn't here in when eighty six or part of b of seventy came up the door or what have you all i'm looking at what we're addressing and how we're addressing the b seventy today so when i look at this for the amendment amending chapter three point four eight all i see and be of seventy as u nder the eight and they're the section and then you have homes but it doesn't refer necessarily to chapter three point two eight or chapter three point four eight point one eight by so in my just basic fundamental way how i'm trying to understand this we're separating this i'm just looking at processing and i a gree with my colleague when where addressing the opportunity for us to address specifically this particular bill if it has to stand alone or how we can define it to how we're taking it out of this be of seventy two become something separate be like this particular amendment  places that have urban services sidewalks sewer all that stuff real quick fire response time that's why they pay more in there i personally don't want to put her services out in the you know in the farm area and we don't want sidewalks up in the farm or we don't want all the stuff that we're paying for if if i'm living in  where we do have well not so much my hope that where we do have the sidewalks and the close proximity to the fire department to the police department so that i can understand the disparity so therefore i can live with that disparity so that's why i wouldn't support this as well thank district wide meeting and you know and people poured out from every corner of this colony to share and then it evolved to morph into what we discussed earlier you know the b of seventy that we see so as mr wade points oh it's it's not something new is to me we've been discussing and that's true i mean that's like five years ago when i recall those times now that i'm a reaction you know all that but it sure to turn into something that didn't resemble that so that's why it was kind of shocking when i referred back to my notes going over wait a minute this is the homesite bill and now it's this disparity in agon and every other thing we're talking about so again you know i stand with my comments in regards to your for this is to be be if seventy which we spoke about many years ago then so be it home say bill dedication all the other stuff incentives and whatever you want discuss to perpetuate and protect ag in a whole other you know manner item whatever so that's kind of how it like to see it separated out and i believe even to put real property taxes on board that they want to somehow get some kind of tool in their tool chest to be able to address the disparity that we're all discussing and the a belief feel this is the key component that can help them you know address that these situations too so again just the way it's been presented this evening just on the house portion vs people who are in agriculture there there are a veiling of not only the homeowners exemption but also the ag rates so it's almost like there's  understand mr coaches point of view but we're one county remember that what we have as a fire department what we use at the at the grocery stores what what the roads that take you into town are all based off of county funding so we're all one county you know so we have to remember that those who live in cali mako up country we off to carry the load and yeah granted i'm ok with  i mean ten acres yeah fine grates but when it comes to the house i'm a little torn you know because because of the fact that hate my neighbor is weak you know paying way ten times more then on a house versus one that's in aquaculture that's that's very difficult coming from costa louis and then being the chair of agriculture you know i support agriculture one hundred thousand percent but there is people that are in industry that are farming that recognize the disparity and i think that our p t real property division recognizes it too so what are we to do are we going to continue doing this or are we going to give our p t tools in order for them to go out and make it equal and so i'm i'm very torn in this position it has been vetted before but you know i think there's some kind of confusion that has been caught you know even i was confused in terms of you know say hey that homesite section is great and then all of a sudden the go you know i understand what you're doing but i think because it's so confusing and i'd be the one to reintroduce this if if that's the case i would think it would pretty procedurally better to file this and reintroduce mr white's amendment as a separate