dispositive even if it were correct there's insufficient suspicion to detain i think there's no allegation in a missing person's report and particularly in this missing persons report what should the police officers have done here we're going to take out the question of as to whether the whether it should have been cleared whether but on the books for too long but what should the officers do when they run a when they run a plate check and they come back with up with a missing person's report even though analysis and that's not what happened here i think that it's fair to say that you can stop someone someone that me on the street and say look there's a missing person's report do you know something about this person you know let's say  comes in front of me at that point of the question is did he feel free to leave and you know that's the saddest i think he has been detained as of this moment before he gets out of the car now he might have looked f and might have looked as though he was going to run that's what the officer testified the officer then said stop and tell me if he got anything but it seems to me that he was a reasonable person would have thought he was not free to leave once he has  this court to follow the community caretaking function kafirs about the community caretaking function of what we have in this particular case we have a police officer and patrol after two am in the morning in a high crime area as he testified based on his experience working in that area of las vegas he at some point during his patrols did this vehicle and runs the plate what does the officer here when he runs the plate he hears that a this is a suspicious vehicle and b that this vehicle is somehow involved with a missing person and on the record at the time of suppressions explain what that meant is that someone involved had reported that vehicle and it's just filled with garbage and then we don't know what it is it could be anything at all including being cleared of a way of being involved with the missing person it's all being you know any of us could be have understanding of the integrity of the databases and of the imports in some ways controlled to make sure the things that that that that designates something and suspicious  state that under the community caretaking function it is enough that the officer has this information that this car is involved in a missing persons case make sure i understand what you just conceded you said we will concede their issue let me ask you what you conceded did you concede that there was no reasonable suspicion to make the stop and you're now relying on community caretaking when did you just concede that in the community caretaking function it is not necessary part of our argument that he the i see so you still saying that there was reasonable suspicion correct and you're saying that there was reasonable suspicion at the time the two police cars sandwiched this vehicle they had reasonable suspicion that there was criminality going on based on one correct based on based on the fact that all of the factors taken in total and what are those factors the factors are that again not to go into this too much the previously suspicious floor coming back down and then taking off and parking a block away he's not a very successful invader if that's if that's a vision well this testimony was that he tried to they'd hear by in the initial sequence of events and then after that you call that the apartment runs up to an apartment leaving the windows open which based on the officers training and experience in that particular neighborhood in las vegas would be very unusual back there because because it's such a high crime area with such a high rate of car theft and other property like cars or become west unusual when he realizes that he's gone upstairs only to come back downstairs again immediately it does can't become less  police cars in front and behind the sister vehicle report the n c i c a missing person report and the behavior in driving his car or is there more that's correct and then his behavior at the finals at the final stop when he gets out of the car or not i'm asking did they have reasonable suspicion when they boxed in his car up to that point those are the factors we view as reasonable suspicion  challenge the magistrate judges finding that there was no reasonable suspicion because you did so you did trial something in the district court with the district court when there was a challenge you said nothing about any disagreement with  magistrate's decision that there was no reasonable suspicion correct it's our view that that issue was not we've by doing that i believe that's well no i don't understand that there's a waiver question coming in a minute but it i didn't quite ask you that i said why didn't you the other argument had been fully there was a view there would be a record before this court in regards to that as the record was fully explored in regard to the reasonable suspicion and in fact primarily that's what was argued in front of the federal them from doing that and then they don't have to say hey buddy you can go anywhere raise your hands up and up against the car you don't have to do that there may be circumstances where what you're saying is the correct course both directions so they tell him to stop officers did that when did the detention begin when they sandwiched his car again or did it only began when they told him to stop and or run away it would be our position it's when they tell him stuff and don't run away i mean otherwise the but this is not an ordinary traffic stop where on ordinary traffic stop the car comes up behind you and you really get out of the car you don't get out of the car but this is a very unusual there until they release them correct ok so that's what we are the question is putting aside the question of whether there was suspicion of a crime which i don't think you have much room to go that i don't know if the record is clear what you mean last the on the previous stop i don't know if the record is clear on that and i'm unaware i think i understand why a white officer at two thirty in the morning in that area might have called for backup but why did they feel the need to boxing me on the officer testified to that based on the fact that they were they wanted to speak to speak i don't think he testified to that on the record we could have one officer pull up behind community care taking theory that's a little overbearing and that it's our position that they wanted to get to the bottom of what had occurred there and under all the circumstances you know at that time of night not neighborhood they felt that this was the appropriate way to you know to go model of you know going to a nice middle class neighborhood in the middle of the afternoon and knocking on doors and having you know you know maids or housewives or house husband sort of open the really duping the lives in their hands every time we approach somebody that's not an that's not an unreasonable concern and i don't know that we can have the same model applied to every something more and so that once you're in that situation you actually do need something more to expand what it is that you're doing and that's exactly what i'm advocating here to be the rule which is you can stop you can you know mak officer had been the heathen in the way the un judged by we just discussed that one officer in his car immediately behind mr wilson's car another officer across the street for backup in case of trouble mr willis gets out of the car and the  what i am but i'm asking in that circumstance can we officer legitimately ask do you have anything on your person that i should be concerned about and he was beyond i have a gun what happens is that suppressed the ball well i have was at this point the nature of the stop is not quite the same and it could be you know an ordinary sort of traffic stop that meyer might or might not lead to a ticket for crossing the double yellow line or making an illegal u turn or whatever sort of thing you know i don't want to concede that that's not  expected one way or the other was i have a gun and so i mean i don't want to sort of project in a different situation that that is permissible when you have sort of a left left that they detention but you still have this question which is