victory no so members we have two items on the agenda today we should take public testimony first on each item so anyone like you would like to give testimony this morning our three minutes and three minutes only to speak on the i don't shell assist you with your time when you begin the green light goes on thirty seconds remaining the yellow light goes on and like any intersection when you see the relate you will stop also once your name is called if you are not president we will continue to go through the remaining names that have those that have requested to testify if you are called and this morning i was going to ask han office is there anyone wishing to provide testimony morning chair of comic council thank you for your diligence as our representatives my name is diana custer and today i will speak for myself and read a statement from my husband richard known as graps to the surfing community our small business seventeen i know this request goes against the grain of concern that the county of maui has not prepared to pay the retirement of county employees an employee costs must be held in check this expense falls outside of that criteria if one has to think of now as a car the ocean safety officers are the tires on that car no matter how desperate the books are tires must be bought and likewise ocean safety officers must be compensated for their lifesaving and frequently dangerous work now is just a tiny blip of land surrounded by the vast and often dangerous pacific ocean multitudes of tourists come here for a blissful time and all too frequently find themselves a deep trouble  power of r c s the ocean safety officers are there for them and us residents to the best of any man's capabilities male and female officers alike they have to hold they have to leave the safety of their land and enter the sea shore surfing community and come you know the life guards at home keep unbothered beach in all other locales they patrolled these people develop their lives to helping and saving people they do everything from putting on a bandage to performing c p r these lifeguards provide a safety net for the thousands of terrorists in the course that enter the ocean daily we could never pay them enough pass this resolution richard thank god thank you very much were present more than two thousand professional and eight hundred retired firefighters throughout the state which includes approximately three hundred plus active duty and one hundred ten retired members of the molly fire and public safety department we are in strong support of b f thirty eight which provides the for required funds for the projected premium pay and operational shortfalls for fiscal year sixteen as you know the molly fire and public safety department as have most county departments experienced budget cuts over a number of years while the confluence provided increased funds in fiscal year fifteen and sixteen the fiscal year sixteen budget does not have the sufficient resources to support the fire department to complete this fiscal year a review of the documents provided at the last budget committee hearing by council member white focuses his opinion of the m f these value to mali communities on the number of call outs or incident responses in february two thousand and sixteen the cake you know a fire consumed more than five thousand six hundred acres of brush and the crews are on scene for days to monitor the fire and conduct cleanups to be clear that fire is considered one incident response the fort mcmurray alberta fire which began on may first and continues to burn displace the more than eighty thousand residents destroying twenty four hundred structures and more than five hundred sixty five thousand acres and also one incident response not to mention the one nine hundred eighty m g m grand hotel fire which killed eighty five people and include injured more than seven hundred people again one incident response and may be closer to home as mr white can appreciate and the general manager of the qana police is the fire completely burned hotel to the ground the resulting devastation would be classified also as a one incident response the statistics presented seriously underscores the entire scope of the firefighters responsibilities it is inherently unfair and shortsighted to determine the public safety value of the molly fire and public safety department specifically by call volume the challenges that members face in a community testimony mentions budget cuts over the last couple of years but if you look at the budget salaries and wages and salaries in premium pay have actually increased by seven point five million members mike moran testifying as an individual this morning as a resident with limited resources in income i am most appreciative that you prudently watch government spending as we once again see the county income from the visitor industry take a one way trip to a while who amany trickles back here leaving those living here to finance the county spending so prudence is required however as a frequent ocean swimmer and so for that free i see the dire need to support her o s o a long time ago i was a certified lifeguard in new jersey but there was a completely different job for obvious reasons as the ocean temperature at its warmest in early september was generally cooler than maui's coldest lifeguarding was a temporary summer job in addition on the busiest summer day the scope of that task with caring for swimmers restricted to a small roped in area of the ocean later in life living in a beach town in southern california while the air temp was milder than the east coast the ocean was generally called or so ocean users were similarly limited to a few months of the year thus it's unreasonable to compare wages in the vast majority of other areas of the country to our guys to be clear here i am not testifying for casey a this morning but it is factual to note that the case c a a so values are always so those and their work on jet skis that the k c a donated one to the south maui team when they as was running poorly due to over use these are our and those visitors first responders our life and then savers who endangered their own lives and their own limbs and lives daily so this is not a place to save money this is where i want my tax money to go where it is desert and need following miss lawrence will be council members my name's charlie lawrence sure you guys are pretty familiar with i'm here to testify in support of b f six because increasing our lifeguards pay is long overdue and a sixteen percent percent increase is long overdue i as a child i grew up i wanted to become a lifeguard that was like something that i always dreamed about doing but it became unrealistic when i realized how much they got paid and and i am in strong support i think are lifeguards have the highest risk and yet are the lowest paid across the nation it's fundamentally unfair and that is just not right and mr holcombe i understand there is a budget that needs to be balanced but our friends our neighbors deserve better and like ourselves they have families they need to provide housing and food for i am proposing this idea to everyone here in this room today to help alleviate the cost in the future because it seems to be an issue and i am urging every single one of us in this room including our council members to contact our state legislators and urge them to give the counties their fair share of the t n t the tourism authority taxation fund majority of the rescues prefer performed across the state roughly seventy five to eighty percent of the rescues are visitor related and are counties statewide only receive one hundred three million and it is estimated the tourism industry will bring in four hundred seventy five million dollars next next year in the tourism authority taxation fund our counties receive less than a quarter and right now our counties are spending more money than they receive from the visitor related expenses and it's just not right we deserve more our county counties or more so i wanted to propose that idea and urge everyone to get state legislators to support our counties because they've been fighting for more money t for a long time and increasing the county's share of the t t is an issue that comes before a legislative many committees annually and before i am because i have three minutes i just wanted to share this quick story when i worked at the waca beach can i was doing canoe tours at the time and there was this gentleman yelling screaming bloody murder help help help help and i jumped on my son on board and i raced over there and i helped him and the first responders there was our lifeguards and had the lifeguards not have been there it would have turned out very differently and they deserved more mahalo thank you mr lawrence members any questions for miss florence this morning thank you for your first and foremost fourteen members is the least paid first responders in the state and these men and women were sterilized for others every day that they put their uniforms on it's very disappointing that we have to be here today to ask for your support in funding this contra way lifeguards are the best in the world and the least paid so i humbly ask you to please support ocean safety and bargain in thank you guys for hearing us today and i want to thank you for the job that you guys do as well i know it's hard to manage a budget you know you say the county money you know we have social safety officers save lives and that's what we do in my twenty five years experience i've seen a lot of positive changes in this department you know i start we started over the little bit towers and now we have nice towers and we started with fourteen guards now it's in the sixty's and the guys that we have now in the stop army is unbelievable so professional and they do a great job for this community there's a reason why that molly gets voted number one island over and over again is because the people in this room you know with the fire police and all these lifeguards you know the lifeguards to me are the ambassadors of this island when people come here they see us first on the beach they come to maui they come to the beaches and we're the first person they talk to we warn them of the dangers of maui offers because the airlines don't do it in the tourist century really doesn't do it so we're the first line where they're also the first link in the  down there in his crew you know these guys would have died and when you read the newspaper you hear about e m s saving the man's life but it's actually the lifeguards saving the man's life we go we go unnotice every day we have no p r person for us so everything we do every day goes unnoticed but that's ok for us because we're not here for the glory we're here to do a job we save lives reason why i became a guard is because i had passion for the job and i love the ocean and i responded very rapidly she got there quick it was a three generation family down there and the shark had bumped one of the people and she got them to shore safely and it could have changed drastically if we went there and that's the job that we do on a day in and day out basis eighty five to ninety percent of the guards on maui are family people or family oriented we have families and you know the cost of living here is expensive so you know we just want to be compensated for what is rightfully ours and i said we appreciate your testimony mr meadows members any questions for mr meadows on testimony presented we thank you for your presence this morning  to the meeting mike sparling please following  the past fourteen years a lot has changed and it's and it's all been for the better for ocean safety training certification of just elevated elevated  like i said i've been here fourteen year i work here fourteen years i've been a jet ski operator for twelve the job doesn't go doesn't go without a lot of extensive training  physically mentally classroom work all that so when you see these ocean safety officers out in the water it's just not a guy on a jet ski cruising around there's a lot underneath there's a lot of training there's a lot of experience there's a lot of knowledge going around on that jet ski just an example to give you of the demands that are that are asked of us you know you can imagine getting a call and your blood pressure goes up or exciting but then you find out you've got to go eight miles as fast as you can in thirty mile an hour winds because on the other end  there's five people that are blown off shore and they can barely be seen anymore so imagine the pressure coming out communicating communicating with helicopters communicating the fire department it's on the it's just an example we had a shark sighting or a shark attack to go and kind of the first people on scene we weren't even called to the scene because the guy was out of the water but our jet skis were there in ten minutes you can't get any you can't get a quicker response and after a shark attack to get people out of the water so we say we are quick to respond and i just want to leave you with this remember safety was super load and council my name is keke high brown i'm the training captain for ocean sci fi i've been working for twenty years i'm humvee asking for your support for b f six bargaining unit fourteen first of all we all know that visitors from all over the world travel to our island ma we fart beaches we also know that when these tourists see a lifeguard tower they have a sense of security knowing that they are safe not only do we protect our visitors that swim in our ocean but our local families to all of the beaches we guard are all different in one way or another that i believe we are essential to work at went tourist or locals come to our beaches we are the  and baldwin are impacted greatly by windsurfers kite surfers board surfers divers sometimes by the thousands a day mckenna just had three spinal injuries in one day due to hazardous conditions and our west district is constantly being dispatched to nine one one calls to buy their rescue ski and along our south coast condominiums run down south key here road making our come all the beaches packed which without preventative actions from our guards would be caught in the currents at the strong trades produce while swimming kayaking or stand up paddling we are the first responders we are the public agency that gets physically trained every year so we can do our job we are the ones to respond within seconds to someone who needs a simple first ages to as serious as an unconscious person who needs c p r i believe that the guard should get the pay that they deserve our tourist industry is growing which means our ocean safety section needs to grow as well haven't you noticed the significant number of shark attacks we've had at this time and in the past of couple of years there are way more people in the water than ever before our office that we work out is in a controlled environment we depend on our equipment when faced with on the elements and hazardous conditions if you're interested in seeing what we do day in and day out i would be more than happy to take you either in the ocean or to our talers so you have a better understanding of our importance officers i just want to remind you of his armchair my viewpoint on how valuable we are to the community and the resources that we provide how we are vital link in the chain of survival for visitors and our residents on the other day on the front page that individual who had a spinal injury and whatnot are ocean safety officers in macao not we're the ones who provided the c p r that brought that individual to life and the fact is that they were there to witness and to provide high quality life lifesaving support for that individual we operate our jet skis of our visitors and our residents and artists are two years aboard our recognizing how valuable we are thank you for your time today thank you for being here this morning mr lear any questions for the gentleman again thank you for your presence that is b f dash six on your agenda the pioneer program started more than fifteen years ago and it may be longer i'm not quite sure that place is jet skis and experienced operators into our ocean to assist and rescue visitors and residents alike is no longer a pioneer or pilot program we've seen the benefits year after year of lives being saved due to the bravery and skill of our ocean safety officers the amount required to fund this arbitration award for lifeguards is less than the amount you approve for the maui visitors bureau in next year's budget are lifeguards to infer that perhaps the my visitors bureau will begin to fund them are they to understand that the visitor industry is more important to the council than the services these people provide to those visitors enticed by m b be advertising to visit maui could members of this council who balk at this amount be doing so because of outside pressure could there be a conflict of interest from members of this council who may have strong ties to the visitor industry if it is true that maui could hold up this binding arbitration agreement for the entire state or for other counties you must ask yourselves why this budget item is an issue for you but the m v b one isn't the state lawmakers and even the city and county of honolulu have approved funding the legal and binding arbitration award with all the graft made known in this administration just look at the picart issue for example it is obvious that some departments and services have too much money i find it difficult to believe that a necessary and crucial service just can't be funded by our council i want to leave you with this fact i found in today's civil beat article regarding this issue my lifeguards took one hundred and sixty three thousand seventy nine preventative actions and made four hundred  thirty eight rescues last year alone if that's not a figure to move you to fund the spinal service i don't know what is what about the costs of a visitor who is injured or dies has family who will sue the county it will be much more than  award think about that in addition i do hope that you will never have to worry about if this service will be available for you or your own one in the future should rescue or assistance be necessary mahalo for your time in the work you do for our county i hope that you will seriously consider supporting agenda item b f dash six and pay our ocean safety officers what they truly deserve thank you thank you for this the moon this morning any questions for the lady thank you for being here this morning hour smite one question is how much is a life worth to put our lives on the line daily people mentioned just be responding we respond and not just high winds said we asked for a sperm please it's hard enough making a living out here like you leave a house just basic necessities for my children and i to pay that we life to be able to just do one and spend time with my family and appreciate i think you think for me thank you for your insight this morning any questions for the gentleman richard daley and please of fire department because i had two incidents when i was ten years old cornet store my brother and i got caught in a riptide it wasn't for the lifeguards i would not be here today i wouldn't be here with three children and six beautiful grand babies last week or less might my brother had a heart attack in cola collapse at the airport if it was in photos fire departments my brother wouldn't be here today he called he had done what they call it wouldn't make or no survivors honor these people and sold as and to honor so they can live like a human being i call them  welcome more i know these are the numbers of the of the waters in the ocean there are the guardians on our dam they deserve it thank you very much thank you for your testimony mr delay on any questions for the gentleman again thank you for being here race is convention and programs for kids high school preschool elementary kids with autism support thanks thanks for your time thank you for being here any questions for the gentleman thank you very much a law chairing council members good morning my name is couple garcia and i'm a ocean safety officer for the county of mali i humbly ask for your support to fund our unit fourteen arbitration award morning chair my name is rick patricio and the unit fourteen chair as well as the negotiator for this unit i am here in front of you to support the men and women of this unit to help move this six forward i also represent the law enforcement side of this unit the sheriff and deal and our officers that would be affected by this contract as well i have over three thousand petitions here from the community i would like to thank to all of that i like to thank keith regan and his wife for supporting us at that event and helping us get this  petition i know you folks have received it have the signatures here if you need to see him again of just a community outreach for this movement to move forward i would like to take this opportunity and time also thank bob carroll the honda community for our support and his dedication to always providing added funding to get lifeguards out there and hannah to support the summer pal program the junior lifeguard program out there and all his dedication to our our housing and funding just to get us there year after year regardless of the budget cuts we go through every year he makes it one of his priorities so i like to personally thank him even though he's not here to support us today he's probably on a well deserved vacation i like to thank also mike victory know even though he's not here for all his continuous support with h g a i had the honor of serving his members at a town hall dinner and i just want to thank mr victory no because i know he's an h g a supporter even though he's not here to support us in person like to also take his time the thank mike white for supporting the hawaii lifeguard association conference we have several years every other year we host it and thank him for is just you know generosity as a general manager that kind of public beach hotel where we hosted appreciate your support there i hope we can continue that relationship as we move forward with this agenda i just like i got about thirty eight seconds to say you folks do a wonderful job you're here to support the community and save the community money but as you heard what we do day in and day out you know we're we're helping you folks save money just with the lawsuits over the years that you've heard testimonies here how many years we've been operating the jet ski for you folks you know we're the only island that isn't compensated for operating and providing that service to the community so with that i'm about ten seconds  away appreciate your folks this time i have a plane to catch to go to the general assembly now which is the highest power and by union conference so i thank you guys for your time thank you mr pritchett i have any questions for the gentleman on his testimony members and following mr downes will be why are quite lifeguards so sation is a nonprofit whose mission is to try and figure out some how to reduce jonathon's on co i and we also work state wide which is part of the reason i'm here today and we have quite a problem we have ten lifeguard towers and sixty five white sand beaches of you can do the math and see that we needed to figure out some way to expand our program from the typical mainline grammar lifeguard comes and sits in  description took on the jet ski program that you've heard about already from other people and their a t v s or trove up and down not only their beaches but adjacent beaches there become an integral part of the nine one one system and whenever a bird see call goes out there they're on the line right away scrambling their jet ski to go to wherever the help needs to be done all of this without a commensurate increase in paid venice significance for all these years so because of that we worked hard a number of us in this room to create bargaining unit fourteen and hoping to find some mechanism for the lifeguards to be able to get an increase in pay i ask you to please so honor the agreement that h g a and bargaining unit fourteen of have reached i need to tell you as an emergency room physician i love lifeguards i love the work they do i get to see the work that they do a lot of rescues they make never make it to the emergency room they're there discharge on the beaches and they're doing doing fine but i get to see the ones that were really close calls that required c and you know when i go to work in the e r of got my nurses my equipment never things all their front of the lifeguards are out there and while the bully mother nature doing this is doing the same things that are the lowest paid of all health care  service providers emergency service providers i think it's i ask you to also love and support our lifeguards by acknowledging this h e a thank you thank dr downes being here we appreciate your testimony this morning any questions for the gentleman thank you again for being here mel who cleans and following mr poole is fourteen members came from bargain three and four they were minority in this unit of over thirteen thousand members i think our number was closer to five eighty we are about four point three percent of the membership so we had no real representation so that's why by union of fourteen was created it was it was supported by the legislators and signed into law by governor elaborate crombie i've been a lifeguard for thirty two years and in the past it's been really hard to just get the equipment to save a life it was just really hard to get the funding so in is completed and this isn't was handed down but in my personal opinion the amount of the settlement is not what we should be talking what we should be talking about are the number when number one receives at risk life guards in the world bar none and we are the number one lowest speed lifeguards outside of any third world country testimony again thank you for being here this morning thank you good morning counsel good morning a lot and thank you in advance for approving the funding needed for for the much needed lifeguard pay raises get my name is john forbes dead and i'm a twenty nine year veteran of the horn of the ocean safety division currently serving as a lieutenant on the north shore of a walk in the other then the legal implications of binding arbitration why should this increase be funded in the twenty nine years i've been on the job being a lifeguard has become  exponentially more difficult the dramatic increase in terrorism social media drawing people into dangerous situations higher standards of training more complex equipment such as jet powered watercraft a t v s to fibrillation just a few of the factors that have contributed to this we expect our lifeguards to maintain fitness qualifications higher than any other county or state agency rigorous timed performance standards must be met annually with no breaks for i don't want to say old but with no rights for veterans like me just last week i was involved in a search and rescue of three novice kayakers one of whom was swept half a mile from shore in a rip current thankfully we were able to look at the woman and return her to her hysterical husband's side the week before that i had an eighty year old woman who had a hip replacement in very small she went down hill on the beach to the shore break and she without any assistance she would have drowned she was not able to navigate the soft sand at the water's edge or duties put people in life threatening an injury causing positions every day i personally know of five of my colleagues who have had their necks or backs broken in recent years twenty years ago and that's in the line of duty twenty years ago my salary was roughly on par with other first responders like the fire department after two decades of neglecting water safety professional compensation there is now a pay gap of up to fifty percent between comparable positions for life guards fire and police given the extreme demands of this job and our competitive salaries we are simply not able to recruit and retain the quality quality and quantity of people we need to keep our beaches safe your support for the arbitrated increases sends a message to both current lifeguards prospective recruits it says we recognize that lifeguards are highly trained professionals whose work is an essential service to our community mahalo for your support thank you very much for your testimony in the questions for the gentleman thank you for being way members of the council ralph go to representing the wine lifeguard association which represents four hundred fifty lifeguards across the state about the formation of the bargaining unit of i just like to add that it was a first bargaining unit added to age ga in over thirty years and was a result of i think the recognition considered not considered a covered in unit three and four which is primarily secretarial and clerical employees and after thirty years of you know during the thirty years we're not really able to negotiate as public years we lost many many very good employees to the who fire department simply because better salaries better wages better benefits and we feel that working with the the agencies that we improve the professionalism as you noted today in training and are really proud of what if that's accomplished here in the state and that's including the the lifeguard there's some concern about the significant increase in salaries i just liked to add that this is the first real significant raise that ocean safety officers of got in thirty years so the sixteen percent reflects an analysis of comparable agencies in united states and also the fact that they were underpaid were fully underpaid for thirty years understand your committee's concern can be followed by keith regan good morning counsel my name is wayne axelsson and i'm here this morning to speak in support of proper funding and support for our lifeguard systems that we have in the ocean i am one of the three novice kayakers that john spoke about just a few moments ago i and my family were on a while  north shore celebrating supporting my son's wedding has to happen on the five o'clock on saturday in the morning my daughter her husband and myself went to the beach to enjoy ourselves in the waves there we took some kayaks i made it through a number of waves coming in it looked exciting it was exciting for a while after a little bit i capsize no problem a swim or something for a while i got tired i lost the grip on the kayak i called my daughter in to help me and she navigated about and there was one funny thing we're trying to hitch ways she cut a beautiful way but she came in to help me and blew right past then she circle about and i got hold of the back end of her kayak and i was a quite the drag on her kayak and what we were unstable combination and she tipped and i lost the kayak so now we're both in the water so she's swimming for hers i'm swimming from mine i was a total of forty five minutes in the water my daughter is the one who got eventually swept out a half mile she was an hour and a half in the water if it wasn't for the ocean safety officers i heard there coming to the beach and it was an encouragement to me because i'd been battling towards the beach and i didn't seem like i was making much progress eventually i made some progress  an officer on a surfboard came and got me the final distance to shore then he proceeded to go out in a jet ski to rescue my hysterical son in law who had gone out as a novice to help save his wife so the second person saved him and at this point there's such confusion on the sure they didn't realize my daughter was still in the water when that was made clear they would immediately went out got her broader and if it wasn't for them i would have been celebrating as best i could well be my son of the same day i lost my daughter but thankfully that did not happen thank you thank you for you to simone any questions for the gentleman thank you very much for being here this is very in followed by in here because he's traveling but both those important to come down here and express our support for what you have before you in fact i'm here to humbly ask for your support of b f six day in and day out our ocean safety officers put their lives on the line to protect our residents and our visitors alike they put themselves in harm's way so that others may live they stand guard vigilant prepared ready to act and react at a moment's notice they have incredible knowledge of our beaches and ocean that only comes with tremendous experience and understanding to sincerely should've of their hard work dedication and commitment that they have these men and women who make up our ocean safety officers the administration humbly asks that you please support the cost items before you today support our ocean safety officers and please pass this item mahalo thank you mr reagan any questions for mr reagan and testimony presented thank you very much here in strong support of the funding for the arbitration award for bargaining unit fourteen i had originally planned to come here and testify and explain to all of you what the ocean safety officers do but you can clearly see that i would not know what i'm talking about and we that this was a first contract and it took a lot of hard work there was research there was creativity there were many many weedy meetings long nights and even some weekends i believe there were some fights between the employers and the unions but no matter what we always focus on what was the priority the employees the members the interest of the employer the union and ultimately the public the union team was represented by field services officer the care officers the county of why he has employees in the water safety officer class at the end there were forty two articles that we were we were able to agree to and there were five unresolved issues were that were submitted to the drawbridge ration battle one the panel is made up of three people one from the union one from the employer and a neutral party member i will again urge all of you to support the funding of its obligation to fund the retreat award final and binding means just that there is no remaking there is no going back to the table we are both parties union and employer are bound to the terms and conditions of the agreement as you may know the most of the other legislative bodies have funded are on their way to fund and we fully expect that maja county will fulfill its obligation to fund the arbitration award for bargaining unit fourteen and in my final closing i would like to just say as was mentioned randy pereira could not be here today because of that there is a state court of the directors meeting and also our twenty third bi annual general assembly which is the highest governing constituency of the five items that were sent for arbitration are what exactly five the five articles that were sent were salaries compensation adjustments differentials temporary hazard out and talk to you guys my journey started two years ago possibly fifteen hundred souls trying to become deputy sheriff for the whole dire state little down to only three or four of us actually went to the cabbie representing miami i've been in my residence twenty four years i've been a lifeguard the y m c a i've been a small business owner i know down college for fifteen years he's a good man by the way just saying after six months of the recruit class i had to spend in a while who away from my family came a deputy sheriff let me tell you something i love my job i do it for the pad right now but doesn't make it fair or right to keep that pay sixteen percent we're getting across the board still leaves us at least thirty percent behind n p t and the rest of the county police departments every day we handled the dregs of society walk into our cell block from pedophiles to murderers to methods we have our hands on every day i was a police officer in new york and never been around so many criminals in my life other than this job as a deputy sheriff every day  couple months ago chases someone down who had a warrant no one knows where we are because only one thousand strong from our county but we're half of all just about a little bit of the half of you to fourteen we got to separate it out because we were being treated like good morning chair good morning but you can me are retired from the lifeguard service thirty one years and eight months i think one of the biggest attributes that life guards have is knowledge and as human beings we all star for knowledge and there's a few genom in this room besides myself we've had the great opportunity to travel around the world to share our knowledge with different countries different states and lifeguards take great pride in the work that they do i don't think not one or any lifeguard been selves in a life or death situation more than once the thing is that we need to look at ways that we can begin to fund the lifeguard operations statewide and it begins with each and every one of us the importance of the decision that you're going to make today in the next coming weeks regarding this b s six unit fourteen sixteen percent raise for the lifeguards is very critical and crucial to the livelihoods of their families first and foremost and the lives that they protect every single day and you know it so i look at these guys have been around for a long time and it gives me great pleasure to to look back and see where they've been and where they are now and i just want to urge and encourage all of you to please support support this needed increment raise for the lifeguards not only for more we call it the but for the whole state of hawaii thank you thank you any questions for us to come up are you look good on t v this morning howard macpherson please good morning good morning my name is howard macpherson this is my daughter kiana i'm here to humbly ask for your support with a bargain you know fourteen vs six and one of the ocean everyone in this room are my heroes so you know to be a part of that group is really special to me and so i'm really thankful to have this position and i know that none of the men and women in this room are here because the for the money they're all they all do it because they're passionate about helping people and i think all that we're asking in return is that our families are taken care of and that we can support them thank you guys so testimony make yourself known at this time i will be happy to give you an opportunity to speak yet come forward pleas and then after you give testimony if you can fill out the form for us would appreciate that please alarcon see members my name is brandon martin i'm a water safety officer number two  one of the worst winters in a long time we had this one incident where this guy got run over by another surfer and we had to do c p r on him and he made it after you know a couple  weeks he's in the hospital he came out his array came down thanked all of us and we not only save lives on you know twenty five feet leaves twenty feet waves we see lies by walking down to people and tying them help because now we can get back other people that went to fire you know can bring them home where they belong you know don't belong in a farm and they don't belong being a sheriff they belong been a lifeguard they belong saving lives they belong in the water you know when you've done that quality and we can get it with this increase and also we put our you know my life's in danger every single there from  in twenty feet waves from getting caught and getting a staph infection we do all of that sort thank you for your time austin you have to support this bill this same you live myself as being a professional surfer in mind the water being in day out and i see a lot of people get in trouble and a lot of them are our course of fortune tours so me being guys what they need and what the you know what they deserve the pay for years it's like he said like i say you know when it comes to life and you very much thank you very much for your testimony this morning harry brown please and following mr brown is drawn grant do i have no other support places to tell you no experiences to tell you simply because i think and feel strongly that it is the right thing but i am motivated simply by the fact that it is important and it is right and i ask you to do the same in supporting them as well i think you can you please identify broke down and i was way off shore and want to get him back but that is not why i'm here i think it's demeaning that you ask those men and women respect the days of their lives keeping fit working to keep the county people safe working to keep the th the guests in business safe and you actually come down here and tell you why you need pay what they earn the county i was a thirty year government employee in california i was ten years presidents have got a union government union and the employees union time we're going to get you need the votes that they're going to have he need to both of these guys thank you thank you for your testimony this morning anyone else would like to give testimony every now and we'll go to the thank you very much ladies members with no objections we show close testimony for today's meeting oh yes kate so ordered with taking the morning recess members we shall return it ten forty a come back to order members we have two items before the committee this morning the first item is b f thirty eight fifty six this is in the amendments being proposed for the fiscal year two thousand and sixteen budget regarding the department of foreign public safety check that premium paid operational shortfalls this is by county communication fifteen this one six four thank you for this opportunity for us to come up and talk about our budget amendment before i start i want to say that we wholeheartedly support b f six and the more said my comments are if i may i provided testimony in writing for you thank you but i will read this out the number of incidents has increased five thousand from five thousand nine hundred eighty two incidents in  to ten thousand seven hundred sixteen f y fifteen as of me in two thousand and sixteen the total number of incidents in f y sixteen is one thousand four hundred seventy three why is this significant the call volume has almost doubled in ten years yet you're asking us to reduce our budget and reduce our ability to serve our community although our call volume has almost doubled we have only been given an additional twenty positions in the last ten years and considering the level of training and quality of firefighters within our department an increase of twelve plus million in our budget in the past ten years should not indicate irresponsible expenditures of public funds in any means with an increase of responsibility this large you would expect a department whose sole responsibility is to serve and protect our community that we live in and be supported by our elected officials and not have to fight for every penny that we need to keep this department running we're not asking for extra items or money that can pad our budgets just because we want to we are asking for things that our department is in dire need for in order for us to provide a public with the service that they require the men and women of the money fire department have responded to over eighty one thousand one hundred calls in ten why is this significant every call that we respond to has the ability to change a person's life just like our brothers and sisters  it would not have called us if they didn't need help when we respond there's always the danger of loss of life whether it be the patients or ours this is not to be taken lightly that eighty one thousand calls in the last ten years that our firefighters have put their lives on the line for our community we have a decrease in calls every year since two thousand and six we had eight hundred twenty fire calls now we have four hundred eighty why is that significant this indicates a number of things including increased public and community education increasing for some and stricter fire codes and plans reviews that have made that difference an increase in emits rescue calls from three thousand one hundred thirty eight in f i six to six thousand five hundred fifty four in f y fifteen again why is this the increase in e m s rescue categories include medical calls ocean in mountain rescues car accidents and other incidents many of which are either we are the first on scene or the soul department responsible to save that person's life the number of calls that our department responded to has doubled in ten years decreasing number of acres burned from one thousand seven hundred fifty three acres in two thousand and six to four hundred fifty one acres in two thousand and fifteen as of me ten two thousand sixteen are acres burned this fiscal year is well over six thousand acres with approximately ninety percent of that acreage being attributed to the newly fire again we asked why is this significant the increas training and preparation of our firefighters coupled with the quality of our trucks equipment and effective utilization of our helicopter service has increased our ability to efficiently fight brush fires before they get out of control brush fires are never completely preventable and with the closure of cns and their additional thirty six thousand acres of land that will increase the probability of brushfire brush fires occurring we need to be prepared for large scale incidents spoken by our union and taking away money from our budget cripples our ability to stay prepared and mary repeats the prepared some of the statistics in raleigh county estimated population from alicante has increased by twenty four thousand seven hundred fifty people in the last ten years the rapid increase in population has added to the size of our community that we serve and is big reason why our call volume has increased by double estimated persons over sixty five has increased by five thousand and forty two in just four years there are now over twenty four thousand persons over the age of sixty five in our community and that is attributed to the baby boomers statistically and logistically we are looking at these items and we are preparing for them demographic that is more susceptible to falls accidents medical issues for that reason our department has been making additional efforts to participate in programs to help our community including the stamp program which is our smoke alarm program we go into homes we put those items in along with the electrical union we have a project lifesaver program that helps with all the time or space it's that are very active we're able to track them down a lot quicker and we sit on the board for fall prevention and all of you know if your parents are older and i just lost my parents in the last three years both of them and they sustained falls we did everything we could in our home with our whole family trying to prevent those issues but they just don't happen we just cannot prevent everything so that's a personal story for that we need the money in our fire prevention bureau  they have the responsibility and the majority of our community outreach and education and we know that sixty five and over demographic girls and increases as the call as the calls are also expected to be number of housing units and these are not just single family dwellings these are housing units has increased by one thousand eight hundred in just four years and why is this significant our fire prevention bureau is charged with plans review and all new construction projects that means that our two plans reviewers reviewed plans on the average of two hundred seventy two housing units a year in addition to their other duties an increase the number of housing units also increase the number of calls because the increase of the number of homes that we are supposed to respond to total estimates of visitors from alicante has increased from two thousand to two million nine hundred two thousand in two thousand and ten to two million five hundred plus in two thousand and fifteen yes an additional four hundred thirty five thousand visitors that we  for in two thousand and fifteen why is this significant we all know that tourism is our highest grossing industry in our community with all our visitors coming here and enjoying our culti we would not economically survive we need to protect our visitors just as much as we protect our residents if there are two million five hundred twenty seven visitors in two thousand and fifteen that means that every month we had on an average additional two hundred ten thousand people to protect the crease in our ability to respond to their needs with discrete decrease the people of our community they need to feel safe when they visit our islands it's not just about a lost spirit it's about our responsibility and in closing i appreciate the opportunity for us to come back to talk stories about our budget amendment in this current year but also moving forward in our fiscal year seventeen there should be more discussion and i appreciate the opportunity thank you we have the police bill from mr byers here at c one he's increasing carry over savings from the general fund by one point five billion decreasing appropriations under department of foreign public safety admin maintenance by one hundred thirty thousand decreasing appropriations under training program by one hundred seventy five thousand decreasing appropriation under fire prevention brain ninety five thousand increasing the full prescience under rescue operations program by one point nine million and we also have a certification of revenues would twenty second two thousand and sixteen from the administration for one point five million in carry over from the general was the on the responded to the question of how did the administration come up with the cash and i believe that was the response you can ask mr bossie if you would that's why thank you thank you other questions for the chair or the chief murray at this time or his physical officer or any of his staff requests known at this time and we'll be happy to request their presence for your needs estimated revenues department of foreign public safety total operating appropriations and total appropriations operating capital improvement projects filing of all appropriate communications as well as to  in common as the maker of the motion but i recognize that this shortfall does bring adjustments to our budget chair  however as ya know i'm a strong advocate of a public safety and i would like to continue that mantra and the efforts that you have me to decertify and how we're going to find  funding i think still falls upon all of us and you know i i believe that it's their expenses are all in the spreadsheets so i thank mr boss for giving us a better overview and so we we can continue to support our women and men in blue and white as the try and perform what is necessary to provide safety in our community so i thank them also and course we're going to try and ask and ask them to try and be more  if at all possible to try and control some of the charges that were tasked with and adjusting our budget because there's other shot falls for other needs that we have but that  i would be supportive of the of the motion if the amount were lower my concern is that we have a department that is expending a significant amount of overtime and i believe that there are ways that they can reduce overtime without reducing the p s and and i think you know just as a comparison we're talking about the ocean safety officers today and the ocean safety officers on average i believe got about twenty four hundred dollars and overtime per year the firefighters with the rig budget request are about fifteen thousand dollars per year  thousand and fifteen is about two point three million dollars and that's two point three million dollars that would have covered other things but that cost to the county provides no additional coverage and i'm i'm pretty sure the stats of that the chief is provided with us i think all of us want to make sure that we're providing a very safe environment for our community and especially those that are elder for visitors for the kids everyone wants the community be safe there are many many communities across the nation that have found ways to maintain high levels of safety with know other means of doing so and i'm not suggesting that we want to go down that road but there are across the country eighty seven percent of fire departments are either all volunteer or mostly volunteer and so we asked the department to come back with some adjustments to their costs they responded by making no cuts even though as  meeting the amount of money that we are spending on items such as our hazmat crew you know in the police department you've got the swat team they come together when there's a major incident that they need to address to keep the community safe we have a they don't have a full time swat team they come together when the need arises that's the way we used to operate our hazmat response we now have twenty four seven three sixty five five people assigned to that in looking at the numbers over a twenty two month period there were twenty nine incidents that hazmat responded to you can make the argument that a lot of them didn't require hazmat to respond they could have handled been handled by an engine company but yet we've spent over that same twenty two month period about four point three million dollars and we have had seventy nine thousand man hours of time spent manning that post for an incident man our account of about one hundred thirteen hours so again you know i feel that there are ways that the costs could be trimmed down and we sit here and listen to the oh i so this feeling that they haven't been paid well enough i tend to agree with that when i say we sit here and listen to nonprofits come in and say no one's got increase in in four years three years five years six years you name it they've had a real tough time making ends meet so for me the issue is that we have  we have a way of reducing the overtime costs i don't think the department has made much of an effort to move in that direction and you know they've got their job to do i've got my job to do so i resolution excuse me your proposed resolution entitled approving costs i don't know you know fourteen ocean safety officers we also have with us the summer of course i adams and this proposal through the council on the twenty ninth eleven days leader this committee already posted and heard this i know for the first t no union representation at that meeting to speak on this item we had no administration representation to speak on this we had one employee from ocean sifi who stood up and spoke her mind and what she thought about the proposal to the committee that was it one other budget committee meetings the same individual showed up multiple planes to share her thoughts with us regarding unit fourteen's contract that was the only public statement we got on this i up until april thirteenth then we started getting communications regarding this item say this committee has been responsible in posting timely we have brought forth their concerns during that original meeting and again members  asserting things the church is aware this is not the arena for certain things but i don't have a pound with the committee members stating their concerns regarding process regarding how we have arrived at this point and any that i was going to as soon as they hear more of this thing regarding those issues the committee brought up at the earlier meeting that will have to wait till next year when this kind the country acts reopen again chairman sorry i can't recall at this time what the specific issues were one of the issues the committee had was exposure of liability for for the county its employees and the potential victims liability there's current state legislation that always has a sunset the sunset date on it regarding on county life guard liability for certain matters and all the believe everyone including the lifeguards are often supportive of that measure at the state legislature thank you jack i think you just place any questions for mr hero moto mr boss we also have fire chief murray which is the ocean safety officers do a fabulous job and i feel that they should be compensated for that fairly and this gets them back into range of where they should be compensated but you know our concerns mr we all kind of went around it i'm not sure what we can discuss in open session but that as you mentioned would probably have to be brought up in the next  rounds of negotiations so i'm going to be supportive of this with the coffee out of the the one liability concern that we have that we really i don't know if we how much of it we can talk about in open session or not by the heard from one member of the union that we're the only county that doesn't have that concern and we where the only county with the concern and it's not it's not mentioned for this county in this contract i'm not quite sure if that's if i understood him correctly that fire department that if they said no you can't go out go to work today that there would be issues with the union pushing back on that i don't know if we can bring up somebody from the union or i'm not sure if that if we are if we have an issue at this point or we can it can wait till the next this is how i would like you to consider this missive coach track which you are you referring to in your comments by the it has impact on costs eventually anything the litigation has cost i would think that this is something we should be talking you know another meeting ok specifically discuss how counsel to prepare and have discussions with our representatives because next year we go into contract talks for fourteen agreements fourteen units contracts are up for discussion ok and how are we going to approach fourteen contracts how are we going to pay for fourteen contracts knowing that this count already needs of this county and so yeah for your charity in our skull so we should be concerned how are we going to get the funding pay for all of these things in the very near future that being said  much that's why i said i would prefer we just stick with the cost item at this meeting at for this thing and if that's the case and i'm fully supportive of this these guys you know they talked about the jet skis they're the ones that it you know and invented the carrier in the back and it's used worldwide now so i mean these guys are sharp guys i've i paddled with some of them and they know the ocean and they before it reaches us here don't understand you you represent the administration overall the county i don't you know as we have to make the final decision when it comes to the cost and the financial consequences but we don't have a say in the actual negotiation so it comes before us like this so i don't know who can ratified or the award that's been given three arbitration thank you how many votes actually did the counties have in example for you know two three four thirteen but we have the governor has six votes and the counties have one vote each i believe hawaii health care system has of the our sister counties have done to support this but at this same time when it comes time for legislation i hope our lifeguards and our bargaining unit fourteen will stand and walk with us in legislation to increase our fair share of cat and it we need that kind of funding to support the  kind of public safety that actually we're asking are far are fine people you know what i've learned is that lifeguards do not  there they have to respond to if there is a very if there is some out to cations and and the list goes on so you know they can be busy doing that then they have to  respond to people who sometimes fail to really respect the water or the ocean that is need it but i i personally would like to acknowledge the work that they've done and after thirty years here today so thank you me the deferral was a very important thing because as you've suggested we have this cost item dropped in our lap with no understanding of how we got here and so as you said there was no one here from the union except for one individual and there really wasn't any way for us to have a clear understanding of what was what went into this arbitrated settlement i've thanks to a ga they provided me with a copy of the arbitration award and as you can tell i've gone through it and go through all the contract stuff in the back but it's it makes for interesting reading  it shows how difficult arbitrations can be but i am comfortable now speaking in full support of the lifeguards getting the increase i've known all my adult life the important part that they play in the safety of our kids our families and our visitors so that's never been a concern for me the concern that i had when we received it was a significant increase and with the although they talked about a sixteen percent increase from maui it's a much bigger bite because we've not been pain the jet ski premium that we well should have and so i don't consider that part of the increases it is part of the increased cost and the increased cost for maui county amounts to about eighteen thousand six hundred  per for individual but i'm now having read through everything and and listen to the testimony i'm very comfortable with moving forward but i'm i do have to read what i found an interesting piece and at the end of the arbitration award there was a dissent provided by the state's chief negotiator and this is just a cautionary note for all of us and it reads and i'm not going to read the whole thing so no don't worry about it while i recognize the fact that each bargaining unit is independent of other bargaining units i'm persuaded that this buf fourteen award will set a precedent that will undoubtedly shape expectations of the other units in future negotiations notwithstanding the arguments that the employers are not required to extend the terms of an arbitrated award to other bargaining units and then later on talks about  furthermore mr machida who is the state's budget and finance chief explanation ought not be disregarded that the state must be cautious in its spending for a number of reasons including the recurring future costs of collective bargaining and salary increases and the competing demands such as funding homeless response initiatives air condition of public schools construction of a new state hospital and prison which are all competing with finite state resources with respect to the cost of collecting the future costs of collective bargaining all fourteen bargaining unit contracts including view fourteen expire on june thirtieth two thousand and seventeen and  negotiations are scheduled to begin in a matter of months the reality is that for all bargaining units each one percent across the board increase in salary costs has an approximate ninety two million dollar cost  impact to general funds over the by any m which is for two years so that's a that is our job here is to watch the finances of the county and as i've shared  before you know our county employment costs from two thousand and thirteen to two thousand and seventeen have increased by almost sixty five million dollars that's about a thirty percent increase  my concern is that as these bargaining agreements expire and go into negotiations once again we've got to be mindful of the fact that the county government  salaries and wages are growing significantly faster than the private sector that we depend on to generate the taxes to pay for it to put in perspective and these are these are not current figures as they're most recent  i can find it's two thousand and fourteen numbers in the it's a report that came out in september of two thousand and fifteen and we compared two thousand and seven which is before the recession with two thousand and fourteen county wages this is not included in not including fringes the county wages have increased by thirty two point five percent the private sector wages have increased by three  significant cost increase that is that is rising much quicker than the private sector and private sector is the main generator the taxes that we depend on to pay these happy to see ralph go to come over from honolulu he's a guy that i've known for a long time and he's one of the real leaders in this arena and a real icon for hawaii and it's also i see ar up again so you know i'm very comfortable moving forward on this item with some significant concerns going forward with with this the upcoming negotiations and hopefully  motos replacement will be able to deal with that and and of course i can't complete any statement on this item without suggesting that a little more t t would help a whole lot and just to put in perspective the increase that we have gotten in t h d over the last eight years is five hundred thousand dollars a year this cost increase for the lifeguards is double that so just a reminder for those of you would like to call your state representatives and and level some concerns maui generates one hundred thirty five know about one hundred thirty million dollars  every year we get back twenty three and a half for all the counties it's one hundred three million dollars a year and we've gotten an additional two point two million over the last eight years during a time when our costs for just fire police and parks have increased in the four counties by one hundred seventy million dollars so the state is largely in control in negotiations we're the ones that end up picking up the county tab we generate a lot of taxes for covering visitor expenses and the lifeguards are a prime example of one of those costs that is i think it's safe to say that they spend more time educating and rescuing visitors than they do locals because we're more much more familiar with the currents and and the conditions and where thank you chair i would like to i guess in my point of view start from the beginning as well as what you stated chair when this after that meeting we did receive a copy of the arbitration decision and most of us were able to read through it had some legal questions to it but in my mind i i basically knew that there was no other alternative but to move forward it was either go move forward or go to to go to the judiciary i do agree with  the testimony and with all my heart that that ocean safety is one of our most important public safety entities that we have on this island and i love those guys i actually two months ago spent a good half day at one of the beaches and went to the lifeguard station and my kids got to go to the tower checked out the jet ski and i really realized that one of my points that i wanted to advocate was the jet ski operator differentials i don't know if the public knows that basically we're the only county that that does this jet ski operation goes into the ocean to cover nine one one state calls as well as our local costs into the ocean and still does not get hazardous pay your philosophy i guess i'm trying to you haven't stated it directly to me but i'm trying to understand it well you see it on the floor it's my understanding that there are in negotiations in the bargaining collective process so the state has eight votes and the counties have four so and the counties votes are all via the mayor's now there is no representation of the council that has the authority to appropriate the monies that actually look after the our budget so when the mares go and negotiate and combined with eight other votes that are non county which are basically state are the budgets of this county in consideration can we afford the additional sixteen percent and a the process goes forward we don't get a say in anything and tell the the agreement is signed is signed and ratified by the vote and then it comes back then then it then it comes to the council ten days later and says council do do you approve or you do you reject this agreement we have no other alternative because we reject it goes back to negotiations and so on and so forth if it if it goes back to negotiations and there is an impasse it then goes to arbitrate and then the decision is made and then we have no choice at all the decision is made period so when does the council actually truly get an authoritative say and how we handle our budget do we have enough money in our coffers to cover it because it's others it's eight other votes out there that are the majority that are dictating how we are going to increase the wages i'm all for increasing the wages they deserve the increase in wages but can but can we but is it going to be rammed down our throat and one being a lump when we have the fire department coming in with one point nine million shortage we've got h as most of their jobs come in are losing we've got tremendous economic downfall in our budget it's crazy you have nonprofits coming in haven't been paid for years and years so how do we take control of this and say look we'll give you sixteen percent but can we spread it out all not in one big lump because everyone else is coming out to us everyone else is coming at us we had no say and how this increase came about granted they deserve it god bless them they really do deserve it but we had no say in it the system is dysfunctional you have state guys dictating how we pay our county employees wow that's that's right how that's just you know that's that's in the world of reasonability that's unreasonable we should have had more of a say in how this went down the councils of each of these these counties are the appropriators of the money how can the mayors be the representatives of the of the county they don't know appropriate the money and getting back to the first meeting on this item no representation from either side the administration oh i laugh at that oh you had kids reading the managing director coming down here why wasn't he down here in march for the march meeting and explaining the situation to us and we wouldn't be in this situation if they'd ministration would have come down at least had a negotiator or at least spoken to us and explain this to us we would have be on v and having that handle all of this but enough of my ranting and raving i am definitely in support of this measure i am frustrated with how it came about and that's all i have to state response with their house so we see to the level of authority within the statute of negotiations mediation and arbitration and of course we will stay in the committee report comments from the members regarding our concern of the process the chair was state though that as you  of course to take care of our employees our county employees and be fair with all employees of this county so as i stated as said in my statement earlier to the media we are very supportive of taking care of our employees our issue is the process right now with the state and how things are right before our desks in a manner of a done deal so if it's a done deal then why are councils given the authority to approve or  reject so it's something that i would say needs to be discussed more at the state capitol it's going to take a bill for an act to revise the state law more than likely and of course we know how seventy six people than there may or may not think alike so to send to counsel a recommendation for a proposed resolution entitled approving costs items for unit fourteen ocean safety officers i would request the members when you look at the resolution on the number two of the resolve clause we amend death that after the phrase director of personnel services we insert budget director and the director of finance it is you chairs position that mr abbas needs to know what's happening with the contracts with the numbers to make the appropriate adjustment that he's responsible under does that include filing i didn't hear you say that thank you and yes this is also includes filing of all appropriate communications attest to b f six yes mr i so i thank you very much i was saving my pontification motion i obviously didn't get the message that this was the moment to do it but anyway i do want to say something here i want to say that you know the things that i've heard today really  couple of things one is we heard people and members comment on the fact that while budget was being discussed some of the people that were being discussed at the departments that were being discussed were not here at the moment i want to tell these people because i sat through the entire budget process it's hard and it's very difficult but for those who are concerned about what is in the budget i think it's very smart if you can be here to monitor what is going on and every day you're given the opportunity before we start to testify and i think it's really really important that this gallery needs to be filled during budget it breaks my heart when we're sitting here hour after hour and we look back there and maybe there's two or three people and sometimes nobody and it just is an opportunity i know it's hard and i know we shouldn't have to do that but that's the system and so if you want to be on the radar screen you've got to be here and you've got to speak up during the the other thing i want to comment on was the suggestion about getting on getting more t n t i want to tell you that we worked really hard this year on trying to get and i was one of the members that spent a lot of time at the legislature in fact i missed a couple of budget days because i was living in honolulu trying to get that money we can use help i think that we need to make a bigger circle we've got a little circle going with the co cares about this we need to form a huge coalition and i think that we would show the power to live picture if we did that you know when we're down there with our donuts and our frisbee creams and our mind do we need of bigger group we need everybody standing together and saying give us our money we deserve it and what has happened here today in my opinion really emphasized this is how unfair the distribution is it's not fair the county should not be here is trying to figure out how do we pay our bills because a lot of this is the so she did with visitors it's a very very clear you know they get into all kinds of problems and we have to take care of it because  know anybody join or die and i want to say that i am one hundred percent in support of the lifeguard the change in your salary it's overdue and you really deserve it and i'm really sad that you know we had to go what you had to go through to get here today i think that this is important and we've learned a couple of really good lessons this year in the process and i for one am going to try to work very hard in my remaining time here to try to get a lot being planned to gather and to broaden our group and i hope everybody will volunteer to come on board and again for those that are going to be back here next year during the budget process please pay attention and come we need  your help cheer comma you know he takes a lot of stuff from us because he drives us hard and we're tired and you know used to tough and doesn't like to give anybody any money and s taskmaster but in the end we get through it it's not easy job to be budget chair but i think we honor the process by participating and we've got to do it up front and not when it's all over so our stateswoman when she says when it comes we need to you know enlarge our circle when we go down to the state legislature we will need ease the burden on the residential tax base again when we don't have that and it's interesting i was is a prospective thing in an attitude thing because i see i different manner from or seventy six colleagues at the capitol we're asking them to return the money we've generated within that county that our businesses  residents work at to return the money that has been generated on my back to my will to further improve services programs departmental requirements equipment infrastructure is not that we asking the state to give us something that is from them this is our money we asking them to return back to the county and that's what we need to make clear we're asking for the money we've generated back to us and so without that it becomes unfair because then this council is placed in a position to s the community to further subsidize a visitor requirements when the visitor is already paying one plus percent in taxes that the state is not returning back to us that we've generated so for me you know i think a different view of how the  but you know this is the t a t has a visitor specific tax and initially for about the first fifteen or sixteen years of its existence the county's got the vast majority of it that is correct and so you know if you go back in time we started we got up to about one hundred million dollars in one thousand ninety seven since then we've moved from one hundred point three million to one hundred three million that's a real mini move when we're the ones that pay the vast majority of general fund mon to take care of visitor service and having a visitor specific tax go to the state and not get make its way back to the counties is just simply wrong and you know we've  as i've said before my my wife a couple of months ago looked at me and said you know you've been battling this t a t issue for over twenty years and i feel like you're a little german on a wheel you just keep running and running and running in the view never changes i said well that's a real frustration hasn't changed but that doesn't mean we stop running so i'll continue to be the journal on the we along with  you as long as it takes to get some of this money back to the county that generates it so anyway and everyone knows my feelings and it would make decisions like the ones we made today a lot a