last of the continued public will be the last of the continued public hearings and there is no realistic ability that we will get that item before eight pm indeed i can guarantee you that we won't get to that item for eight pm before any pm so anyone who has come to print here that i don't you may go and visit the many interesting shops and restaurants in belmont center patronizing local realist ters and restaurant tourist without any fear that you will miss anything with that and i want to turn to item  which is the continued review and approval of design modifications to the bread or formally put in village i can remind people this is not a public hearing but let me just take a so to speak set the table and perhaps say a word about the some of the ways in which this project differ and the planning board's role differs from some of the other  projects we had a meeting on the twenty six in which there were numerous neighbors in attendance and we had numerous neighborhood comments indeed the meeting ended when there were no more comments to be made what is distinctive about one of the things that's distinctive about this project is that for most of the cases that we hear we have the property owner and we have the neighbors and we're trying board tries to give them the bylaws to balance the equities between them what's different about the right for is that because of its size and location there are really four sets of interest just the property owner the neighbor the local business community and the town because it is large enough to have a fiscal impact on  which is let's get on with this because it's very hard construction is hard the complex will be good for business they'd like to see you done as a town and obviously the property owners also have an interest in moving things along and it's not truly in the it's not pleasant for neighborhoods even a construction zone that said last time we focused on the discussion really focused on four issues density materials design and to a limited amount landscaping  we had a working group trying to pull together to make some progress on these issues and what i am going to do is take up the first item and i'll ask  as initially conceived the bradford had one bedroom and two bedroom apartments as it has evolved but as we learned at the last hearing it now has one bedroom one bedroom plus dan two bedroom two bedroom plus band and two bedroom plus plus plus dan and study the concern is obviously that we never permit two three bedroom apartments we would not probably have permitted three bedroom apartments and if all of the two bedroom apartments one bedroom apartments were in fact to be to become two bedroom apartments the economics of this for the town would change substantially for the worse so what we have tried to what the working group tried to do was to go through for you to go through for the winslow building which is the first to be constructed and to come up with some criteria for what's a one bedroom whether it had what's a one bedroom with dan and what is really a one bedroom with an additional room that's going to turn into a two bedroom and if i could ask window and a window to the outside world or is there no window is there door or no door where what's the placement of the den or study is it just off the entrance relative to the room labeled second bedroom and the the concept is  that as we go through these as we go through each of the buildings the if a down or study passes all floor passes these tests it's a den or study and it's not a concern in fact because it will command additional  grant which generates additional cash flow which raises the assessment of the building and so on produces a more affluent clientele and renter for the local merchants it's a positive thing  and in going through the winslow building there were two one bedrooms that were somewhat problematic because they were because the studies were placed next to the other bedrooms and four in which the den would be really very hard to use as with the two bedrooms there were more questions some more questions to be answered largely because there were cases a couple cases where whil criteria it would be the den or study was larger than the second bedroom and that leads to the question when they when the study organic is really small it's hard to get a third roommate in there exercise that we're going through wraps and looking at the detail floor plans is consistent with our approach with both the g r and the s r c when we're looking at the issue of density and the implications not for today but how it could be used  our community development to sit down with the developer go through the remaining buildings and at the end of the day there need to be no three bedrooms and the number of two bedroom apartments needs to be sixty or less because that's what of what's what's allowed by the special permit so let me pause there and see if there is question that we had when we went forward with the project of that in the actual completed project as it's built so that this won't do anything other than reaffirm the position that was taken and the plans that were proposed and voted on in terms of their impact on the town and in terms of the residence of the potential residents in the site so we're basically by doing this i think you're going back and reaffirming the position that we took and the thoughts for what we thought this project would be so there's no real change in the next just it's just tidying up  not i agree and the thought would be we'd proceed on this basis and when developer and community development had finished the review of the two remaining buildings that then their material could be distributed just makings confirming that the final configuration was consistent with the special permit of if not let me turn to the second issue which is materials and at this point the one of the larger changes in the design was some substitution of materials and i'd like there were some questions about it because we have said and the language of the special permit says clearly that  the quality of maintaining the quality of installment here realist is critically important and so if i could ask at this point trying this over ask the top team to introduce costing here on a square foot basis to install the the stucco material and this is an ethos it's a commercial grade stucco be above twenty three dollars a square foot where the  brick with the substrate would be probably above twenty eight dollars a square foot roughly again that is going to vary based on the type of the color of the brick and you know some other variables but you know we wanted to you can just demonstrate that this is not a cheapening of of the facade and we believe long term it's going to be a more attractive and a more user friendly long term care maintenance product on the on the property with that i will but i think i'll turn it to peter if you want to give a little more detail peter on the some of these other locations for these buildings good evening my name is peter quinn of peter quinn architects so i just simply of grab some images that were from a brick company by name of claim gary which is one of the most reputable companies and very likely one of the ones that we would use or the equivalent so these are all thin brick brick tile if you will even the corners are done as a piece that has a corner form to it so that you can you can create you know the full  effect you can see these are very high quality buildings this is actually a public institution i mean i have a t stop and they've used it here the one this one is in i think about westport connecticut and it's a very large multifamily piece that is put on a substrate which holds it in exactly the right location and then it's mortar just like a regular regular it would be so if you saw on bill's right now you can see too well left is not in one of the needham projects that you just completed now that that's in connecticut and i just got that from the glengarry web site so i have questions for sure so actually that this will be in square feet the face of it if you have an idea well if you look at our elevations here of the of the promo now you can  well looking at it as an architect i will say that you know what we've done here is we've we've captured if you will the the brick tile in it's going to discreate areas between bays that we've created so that it's it's easy to make that a wall surface it's expensive as we already noted but it's used to control the joints the moisture and so forth if that becomes a full bed brick we have basically double the technical aspect of this of trying to texture but over time it will stain and it will take on a small hairline cracks which you know the bricks will have more give to them especially this kind of thing so so that this will weather more like the bricks that we see am absolutely holdings around write ups that absolutely i mean if you look ten to fifteen years down the line with the newness of office if that it will look like the other right it is also not the dominant material on this building you know we're really trying to put a lot of limestone into this building along with base there's also these painted base up in this area of in here so it is kind of a play between different materials going on but it's not entirely a brick building so it is interesting you choice of material on this which you guys more expensive than some of the buildings that i see along with the street in watertown that have there's a place for that and i think we may have a small matter in this building yet not of this building but but not the not all of it not all all you have to be very careful with that you have to cut it in a way to give it revealed joints and and gauge and so are there some examples of where this material has been installed here twenty years you could look at it i suppose we could get one i you know build build brought this one in here that that he i guess following up a little bit on the maintenance over time you know unlike real brick which is a true brick where the bricks are sitting on top of each other and are unlikely to pop out or off what's it what's natural wear on the on the mortar but it's it's not moving like a regular brick so you're not going to get the kind of cracks that then produced the fall out of the mortar so forth so you know i'd say this is as good if not better than regular brick if you will you know it and you have to keep in mind that the way brick buildings are built nowadays it's it's really just a stud wall made out of metal studs or wood studs even and then in front of that is a brick and it's it is just a brick it's not it doesn't have masonry behind it so it's moving with the wall and that's why you have a lot of failure down on brick buildings that are that way or you know fifty longwood in brookline for instance that eleven story building there to take all the you'd like to move on to you had obviously there were numerous comments on design i have a message i have some concerns about that area as a topic of discussion since there are many views on design it's hard to establish a hierarchy of design comments and therefore did discussion can go on for quite a long time  which is not what we want to see here but i think if what you present what you what you've done based on the feel that the last time and then we should have a discussion amongst ourselves as to what if anything so we try to focus on the on the year of the highland billing to believe the time to build a three there were a lot of concerns about how the corners worked and how that board and bad material worked and you know there's just a lot of things about it there were resolved i think and i think and then we did come up with a solution i think that works very well it does harken somewhat back to the design that was approved in two thousand and fourteen with a with a kind of a stronger man sard but again we were trying to reduce the amount of parapet up above it so what we have now is a as strong chorus and i have some three d images that i can show you you know is another request that the board that creates you know kind of a townhouse like effect with a with  a mansard above although it is a straight wall it does have a chorus and underneath it are brackets small brackets i'll just go on to some of those images you see here and i did give the i'm by seventeen hand outs of this if it's easier to see but this you can see how the geometries of this work this there's a there's a pitched roof a flat vertical roof with a matching color and then a chorus that has brackets on it so that serves to kind of create a visual line that steps up with the hill and up to the tower below that cornish line really nothing has changed just focused on what was above trying to resolve that and i think it we're pretty happy with how it all works we do have a new material in here which is  raised the question about fiber cement panels and we are actually using a very small quantity of it as you infill between these windows but in a color that matches the metal roof above it so that we have a little bit of tonality there's a slight different ones vertical ones at an angle that they'll be pretty close in color and make kind of an interesting you know composition on the roof that also has in it a reveal which is trying to pick up the line from our divided light windows but i had to try to be clear about what the what windows are divided in here you see them these are these are two of the twos so that whole that's these are moderate price they're actually very good quality they're ground faced so they have a machine to finish to them they're not rough like somebody mentioned hardy hardy board which is this are the cheapest material we  know kind of was a want to mention the screening issue had come up at the last meeting so here you are standing on the street looking up at that the massing of that building you do not see the mechanical you don't see you really don't even see the roof deck  standing right at the edge you don't see the elevator you hardly even see the tower here so i think we're in even when you're high up on belmont street see very little of any kind of mechanical equipment so when you look at these views like this one you see that you can pull screens in an abstract sense yes that is there but you'd have to you'd have to be up in the air to be able to see it so from the ground you  and we've we've used that principle through all the design and there's it's no different than here i just want to show it so that i do something several neighbors had raised that's all respect for that we did the three d and that's about it questions would it be possible to get some sections i find it a little hard of evaluate these when all we have is his flat renderings we don't have anything three d and we don't have any sections so i did do these three d s here i guess you're you're referring to something more technical like going right under the sun for my money putting brackets on one of the buildings there aren't enough to make it to add up to anything i'd i'd i'd sooner leave the mop instead of having two or three on each twenty feet it's it's your you're introducing you you respond to in every sort of the board many of these choices that you've made are in response to those and i think they've met those others are the static choices and  we could we could argue about the hold it was i think in the mean and you know we've gone back you know in terms of size and mass and all that and we're very pretty good place on that in terms of the design of the building per se of the back to point comments that i made last time i think the proposed changes are an improvement i think they streamline the building to make the building look better from the front better from the side better from the back and i think the response is that you've made in terms of these things that hominids i think you've been responsive to th could look at are the building and the better the building looks on the outside as well as on the inside and the more attractive it is it'll not only be more attractive for your residential tenants but also for your commercial ones so as joe stefano always says good design is a good good architecture good design is a good thing and it makes money that's positive stuff  still i was not present for the the the meeting weeks but i did review that and i did forward my some of my comments i overall just want to stay for the record i agree with what chuck said in terms of overall i thought th improvements were there and here i am i do share some of karl's concerns i'd like to get some of the cut sheets and some of the material attacked early just to get a sense of that but i think that the the the changes overall reflect some good you know receptivity is the some of the questions and concerns that were raised it looks cleaner and i think that we're in a common a mutual endeavor common enterprise salute as builder and as a community and i think that i like the direction that setting i kinda just want to add to what you said here is you know last time we did discuss it we were making full sized mock ups at some point and and those will be representative of color texture because i think everybody would like to see this moving forward for the sake of the community and agreed it would be nice to see more of  get so in terms of moving forward let me propose a an approach and see what people think but i think there there's the the issue of density and i think we're all pretty much in reports to be returned to the fore and i think certainly first on my list would be that as soon as possible ideally by our next meeting topic to be discussed revision in the layout of the apartments to make that case i think based on the work that we've done under winslow i'm confident the fact can be achieved but it needs to be significant return but we will need to see the mock ups and we will need to continue reviewing and hearing that specified in the permit so i'm not sure we need to catch it as a attach as a condition most of the things that i think that are that you haven't specified here urged her in the special permit yes we're calling things out at this point to move toward the really other things that are issues of concern or within th special permit have to be addressed as the project person and at any future meaning we should probably set aside some time from going back just for going for ourselves as a board and for anyone else who wants to listen to going back over the special permit because it has been a it has been a while and it would probably be very useful for us as a group just review the process of what needs to happen as we roll forward with especial permit carl you've lived with this the longest would you agree that it would be good would be good to refresh people's memories  some very good list to start three bedroom we will we will come out no three bedrooms and we will call up a total of sixty units that are unlikely to be used and two bedroom is one less thing it doesn't have to do with this but to the issue that i brought up before in all of this design and all of this reconfiguration of the project and the reduction in the number of units we still have maintain i will move to approve the design modifications to the bradford subject to the condition that the applicant and the office of community development meet to review all four plans to ensure that there are not in terms of landscape and they tell into two categories there there were particular issues with respect to this property and the trees we the town what kind of landscape painting is consistent with what we're trying to achieve and in a moment reassure the applicant that we have not decided that first we're going to have a general discussion and agree upon guidelines and then deal with your case we're going to deal with your case first we simply want to do it in the context of some sense of what is coming but you do not have to wait upon a general resolution of this issue  stefano who had refused him self is now joining us for the discussion of the landscaping at twenty nine jason we have i think the the major in there was there had been an issue of the very large line trees there had be an agreement that these fine trees needed to be removed and the question was going to get for your stance girl like maybe fifteen feet or something they don't necessarily have to be a full twenty foot tree made and they can serve the function of putting in a hedge or living hedge there without being that tall i mean i just when you take a look at the trees that are in place there they're just so huge but if they're gone in and you take a look at the neighborhood and all of that there's no reason to put something even half that size in there to to service a fence i mean you need some sort of a half stories and they're taking all those down and adding a story and so the the the neighbors privacy changes drastically you know i don't i  recall we did have some neighbors and we talked about but the posting and i didn't and this is just the current neighbors it is the babies that would be in the future anything that they were generally overwhelmingly and second we did not have any statements or any appearance by the neighbors directly going back over who would be most here and i think it compared to the amount of like th coming in now this will be considerable yet i just have a question about the implications and there is a fence right does for the plant  see we're still in the sea have nicely shaped trees the way we have in this picture even though there's a fence behind them i'm not familiar enough with this plant to make a form to comment on whether or not it does she would impact this particular variety but i would say that in general the lower branches might not thrive as well as taller branches because of the shade from lot of trees in the april first snowstorm whenever that was but most of them survived by everybody going out and knocking the snow off of them and not waiting for them to  recuperate on their own and incidentally if you can hang up we will be taking up the draft single residency landscape guidelines at our next  the week we can we can talk louder the microphones do not amplified within the room but we can make more of an effort to make ourselves heard is this better  so could you introduce yourself please in the packet is with the together as a result of reviewing the building file and looking back to see what applications were submitted when and what time and when notifications were sent out and as a result the timeline you see goes back to december twenty thirteen when the sunroom renovation was originally filed there's two supplementary documents that go with that as well  original application and then the scope of work that was submitted with that application moving through the timeline you see that on december thirteenth is when  the application was submitted and then on december eighteenth twenty thirteen it was approved based on the two documents that you see provided there as well as giving it had to july twenty fifteen there was an application for a day care was filed notification of the denial was sent out on september twelfth twenty sixteen and then an application for the special permit was then ultimately filed on december twenty first two sixteen and which brings us forward to today  yeah and basically rip replace that right place at the end at the same time that that was done there was a roof deck put on top of it which was an illegal improvement which was not in the building the  and we've had a couple of issues of that that have come up so basically now what we're doing is we're coming back here and asking us to retroactively really have no questions i think it's it may be useful to separate this into two pieces the first piece is what would we do if if this came to us de novo as a request for a permit to add a rough deck the second piece is as we look at the process from the original twenty thirteen construction and moving forward what do we think of that and how should that affect our decision i think on the the first point if this coming before and you obviously think we only discuss these issues in private in public i would have a considerable problem with this for a couple of reasons the first is that there is a the rear set back is i believe nine or nine and a half feet that's half of the required setback and we have a very strong letter from the resident who would be behind this who would be most affected by a roof deck taking considerable issue with this is currently non conforming so that we have a great deal of house and impervious area and in general we've been very wary and decks because they that that is good to know but the fact remains that there's only nine feet between this wreck daniel and the neighbor in the back a fact that the neighbor in back has called to our attention in terms of the if you as i look at the permanent i noticed that as it was originally permeated in twenty thirteen it was permeated for a rubber roo i'd have a rubber ordinarily i would not be the one on the board who delved into the details here but i have a rubber room and in order to put on a get on a rubber roof basically one doesn't generally and it's a lot of work or you don't install a rubber room so that there was actually this goes this is part of process there was a gap between the permit applied for rubber roof and the work that was actually done i think it unlikely that the building department would have improved would have approved but in fact there was table wrists face for four and a lounge chair so that which certainly suggests that there's fairly extensive use of the outside there and that the remedies suggested is which is we won't use it for social events extraordinary would be extraordinarily difficult to enforce so in terms of the questions we really usually ask does this enhanced the neighborhood i don't i don't see that there may be some decorative element but i think this is clearly being used as an additional living space and if you know i know that this is like the fourth time that you've been before us you and already have been before us and from the want to support the request for a special permit this time only i think that's part of the process or part of the problem of why we're here today is that there was a house for all the proper documents for exactly what are you planning on doing here it was enough to be very day you know a description of what the costs are and that was about it  there's barely there's a reference in the structural details that were committed here about a roof deck you know in a note on one of his one of his details whether that was discussed at that point in time and didn't get placed in to to do the addition was a granted by the planning board who by the only bill at that time it would have been its own board that's what i thought it was not something that because i was on the plane with it so that was not something that came before the great thing thank you very much michael jaya representing film a day school and i just wanted to briefly cover what we're hoping to accomplish tonight in go through tonight and then i'll turn it over to kelly and others this is the fourth hearing session before this board the application was filed in february twenty seventh and before that the school had been speaking with town staff about this project for many months before that so there's been a lot of time for information to come out about this project bill my day school has addressed all the outstanding questions as kelli cardoza will go over shortly well my state school is willing to do a peer review of the storm order design on a reasonable and efficient timetable so that this review process can wrap up in the next few weeks and we would ask that you let us know tonight what if any further information you do not already have but need to evaluate in approve this proposal on the basis of your site plan review authority and we would intend to ask that when the peer review comes in we would ask you to peer review process is completed we would ask that you close the hearing kelley's going start basically where we ended the last time since our may twenty third hearing we've provided some additional plans for clarification specifically to illustrate controls at the driveway you had some questions we've taken some subsections of the plants to clarify that it we have numbers for you on the length of the driveway in a plant we've also proposing changes we hurried to interrupt you for just a second because the the length of the driveway in square footage was an issue that a of people heard and could you give us those numbers i have a plan that shows the numbers that everyone will see in our agenda right so we heard the board's concern about the use of the gravel as a parking service and we're posing that the parking safe spaces that were surface with gravel previously will now be surface with a pervious pavement so they will just be a seamless continuation of the of the driveway onto that parking surface we've working group so any place where the poorest pavement exceeds five percent slope we had that strong water working group on june second we thank the board for their time as well as staff and as mike said we've offered peer review for both the planning board process as well as  storm water by law process this slide shows the traffic controls at the driveway if you imagine that you are entering from concord avenue and you're coming in the one way driveway there are are pavement markings here which are shown on the plans that will push the driver to the right hand side and that person will either be going straight or they'll be going to the right there's a stop line right here and there's a stop sign at this location we talked  last time about the fact that there will be staff and faculty present the for the first month of school to make sure that people know how the traffic controls work this is something that they do want to regular basis  anyway for pick up and drop off but it will be a change for parents who have been there for a while and in in the instance that someone is disoriented and doesn't know where they're supposed to go if they were to approach this one way driveway they would see two do not enter signs one here and one here so i think that clarifies the traffic controls and this is shown on the plans that you have so the next question is the length of the driveway so the overall length of the driveway is seven hundred fifty four feet eleven inches that's from the centerline of the driveway from from concord avett this location kind of at that divider of are green to the parking lot and the parking lot is located which is that right there place that i just showed you is five hundred ninety one feet from the drive curved tendency to the parking lot is an additional one hundred sixty four feet two inches and finally the length of the westerly property boundary is one thousand and ninety five feet five inches so i hope that those numbers work in terms of clarifying things for those of you who are here in the room and we'll provide the slides to you as we have in the past so you'll have that in the record that also was shown on the details that we were provided at the working group meeting what we do that the working group meeting was to kind of discuss the strong water system in some detail and frank who is now our a v guy was the engineer who designed this ystem and who and who did the discussion for us at that point i'm just going to summarize it for you and the slides will catch up the stormwater system has both a primary and a redundant system the primary system is the poorest pavement that we've been talking about as well as the roof drains that we'll see if we can get this to show ok so if we orient ourselves this is the barn the propos structure this is concrete avenue and this is the driveway that will enter and this is that curve that we just talked about so in red are the existing stormwater structures in yellow or this mustard green color there is  the drainage for that for the new system the new system will include the poorest pavement for both the driveway and now for the parking area and these caltech chambers the roof drainage will be collected and piped to the caltech chambers and these chambers are the same type of design as the ones that already exist which we know work quite well at this location there's also a redundancy to this system and i think it's important to point that out the there's a high point at about this location on the driveway should there not be infiltration for any reason and we've been really clear that we don't think that that's going to happen there is a trench drain located here at the end of the driveway or the beginning of the driveway where it meets concrete avenue any water that would be entering that trench drain would go into the town system through a pipe located here again there's a high point here so any water they did not infiltrate would go in this direction there's a low point right here at the driveway  water that was on the pavement could infiltrate from there into the caltex so in addition to the primary system we have there's a redundant system this next slide shows a section of the driveway i think what's important to show here is that there's a one point five percent pitch in this direction away from the cemetery so if you imagine this is the cemetery in this is the cemetery wall i'm kind of out here a concrete avenue and this is the neighboring home at this location in addition to the pitch in this direction of one point five percent there's a shoulder here that will keep water from going surface water from going on to the cemetery property there's  swale here with an under drain that would collect any water that might be going in that direction and that would again discharge to the town system so there's really no way with this system as it is that we would end up with water either on concrete avenue the cemetery property or on the levitt property next door this is a detail of the poorest pavement it shows that there is for orientation again this is con ave this is the poorest pavement the trench train is located just right here at the intersection of the two and you can see on this detail the year there are these black lines those are checked dams which will be installed wherever the slope mixed exceeds five percent and there an area right near concord avenue where it does exceed five percent six percent of that location this is the same detail that we showed at the meeting the other day it has four inches of asphalt over a twenty four inch reservoir course of gravel there been a number of questions about the effectiveness of poorest pavement and kind of the history of it and i'd like to answer some of those and also to provide this letter to the board from stan tec it has all of the detailed science and of the references relative to that which i think we probably will just summarize for you here so some of the questions that have been asked are is the design adequate for the area frank has been really clear that he's confident that the design is adequate and there is no firm design criteria in the state of massachusetts for porous pavement but what we did is compare this design to information provided by the u n h stormwater center the u n h stormwater center is well respected their work from two thousand and five to two thousand and seven was adopted by the massachusetts department in front of environmental protection in their b m p guidance for storm water and we also have reference to two thousand and twelve paper which i have attached to the letter that we gave you it's specifically addresses the use of porous cavemen in cold environments so without going through all of those calculations based on the un u n h criteria b d s should have a minimum total pavement death of twenty seven inches if we think about what we have the current design includes a total pavement depth of twenty eight inches which is four inches of pavement over twenty four inches of gravel the second question is what's expected lifespan when the original work was done in two thousand and five in two thousand and seven u the lifespan is expected to exceed that of typical pavement applications in northern climates again can be plowed at u n h there porous pavement is subject to frequent plowing sanding and salting without negative on slopes greater than five percent check dams can be installed and again the b t s plan includes those check dams in detail that was provided anywhere where slopes will exceed five percent we believe that we have provided in in the application package all the answers to the to the questions relative to their pupil guidelines that this that this board will need to make a decision and i hope that you will  ask any questions now that you might have again we have the entire project team here and we're happy to provide you with any additional information you might need to make a decision thank you at this point i think we have a few minutes to take public comments before the board continues a discussion so alan my name is ellen o'brien chrisman hundred chairman of the belmont cemetery commission and i'll only take a short period of time because the cemetery commission has actually submitted written comments i think three separate times we understand that the fire chief and i have read the documentation i expect that since the chief is here he'll be able to participate for himself but that he wants a second means of vehicular access for emergency vehicles to access the site which we don't have any problem with a second access for emergency purposes and we understand that concept though we do have pretty strong concerns continuing over stormwater will obviously review the latest submission and groundwater that could follow the flow to the cemetery but as far as we're concerned there's a tremendous difference between having an emergency access which is intermittent use and a full time every day constant use driveway or road which potentially could hold carry over a thousand cars passing within just feet of the cemetery something that hasn't come up and we shared personally with the bell one day school people in october and avalon back in october and they were kind enough to come to the center of commission when highland meadow was originally designed and the first lots were actually sold in two thousand and six there was actually a six foot pedestrian pathway that was located outside of the stone wall on the shared border between us and the day school on this exact property that we are talking about at the request of andrew troop who was the chair of the board at b t s and let me say leon i was the head of school at that time they asked us to please remove that pedestrian path because they were nervous that it would give too easy access to strangers to their school and to their children and so we the cemetery commission we listened to what they had to say we removed the past and therefore we move the wall closer to the border and now it's sort of ironic that the belmont day school proposes that at that very same location that it becomes a driveway or road and we're asking them for some protection in terms of beth that aesthetic border for our cemetery and we haven't yet received it i have not yet seen any improvement or a landscape buffer which of course we are looking for lastly cemeteries and water don't really make good companions and i know we've heard some storm are and i'm hopeful that the peer review by prescience that their offer of a peer review is is very good and i hope you take them up on that with all due course the drainage for the road as far as we're concerned really needs to be connected to the containment system it should not just be unique on its own as prior submissions had been and without vacuuming and maintenance no matter what we've heard that road in the nature of that surface could actually disappear and it could turn basically into concrete and we've heard that even from their engineers and so the cemetery commission asks that we not necessarily be reliant on someone's good budget and maintenance habits but we actually do a really good design to make sure that we don't get any kind of extra flow into the cemetery on behalf of those seven hundred fifty watt owners who are already purchased and all those grieving families who are already there never mind those who will be coming for the future oceans six five nine belmont street my wife is very very close to their and i've been going there every day for the last four years so you have to pardon me that yesterday was the first se heard of this whole project and i think her for the velocity of her presentation i don't know what a dam is i couldn't tell from the picture how the d m really worked i know there's a huge pond near the entrance that they're proposing there's a ton of water there that's one thing that i know for certain and i have been in that cemetery literally every single hour of the day over the last four years i go all hours of the day is a lot of noise a comes over but they were there before the cemetery and that's fine putting in a road there's going to be absolutely no sound buffer i don't understand how you could you know be grieving over your loved one and you going to have cars it's been up and down the street over there it's just it makes no sense sound wise i see it as being just just on that alone i see it as a failure and i don't see how that when you have that slope in the water is still going to get over there and i don't see how that's going to be prevented either and then there's going to be you know further openings all the way down to whatever that barn structure is which i have no idea what that is because i tried looking at online in the schematics were very difficult to follow this looks like a  no brainer for just a big no thank you cars when i'm walking i see people going from somerset street to concord avenue often in the mornings and there are young children in the cars and they may be going to be on the base but i'm speaking  was the day school my daughter was a counsellor there at the camps in the summer she was also the head of the art program the or the de camp she was a lifeguard the evenings and after the camp in the summer the pool the tennis courts are used in from whenever the campaign ends or shortly thereafter until some point in the evening probably near dusk and my  speaking to you tonight is just to run down the history a little bit of the belmont cemetery it's just a twenty first century cemetery on in a space that was founded as a town in the nineteenth century and eight hundred fifty nine it was incorporated as a town belmont's first cemetery was on grover st and during the mid eighty's the capacity was filled pretty much families from belmont were turned away and would go to other towns when there was a need to bury a loved one from the beginning when the portions of the mclean hospital land were becoming available for sale it was decided the new cemetery would be part of the planning to fulfill the needs of belmont citizens a respectable reflect full peaceful spiritual place that's for adjectives and i will repeat them respectful reflective peaceful spiritual place with views of no conflicting elements reinforcing attractive views inside the cemetery as well as attractive views from outside the cemetery looking into it and to preserve the country lane character along the conquered avenue frontage when the cemetery became a reality perception set in that those being commemorated and remembered in the new cemetery were known to us and closer to age to us than those in the older nineteenth and twentieth century cemetery and grove street and this part is a little bit difficult for me but please bear with me in two thousand and seven my granddaughter actually pew was in first grade at the burbank school and told me my best friend may's mate as she referred to her is someone that i really like they were playing soccer on the in brookfield their first soccer game that september two thousand and seven when may have died suddenly and entire school in town grieves for this family and her grave in the new cemetery was visited not only by people your age and mine but the whole school and particularly the class that she was a part of forward three years later in this same class in which my granddaughter was attending nick who sat next to ashley at the burbank died while playing basketball with neighborhood friends after a spring storm so soon again a school in our town had to learn the sadness of childhood this my point is that this is our cemetery our friends neighbors and family so of all ages are remembered we respect fully and lovingly giving them that opportunity we want the atmosphere to continue to be what the guiding principle stated and i repeat respectable reflective peaceful and spiritual in the decision making on this proposal from the belmont day school on behalf of present families and future families who turn to the cemetery i ask respectably that these guiding principles be maintained thank you at this time i'd like to sort of hope you know where past a time when i'm sorry i haven't all nine fifteen until we resume with other business matters so i'd like i understand but i really need to move on if we have time at the end that can and we can take your comments of the day school has asked us  to consider their file and well i certainly can't guarantee that at our very next meeting we would be able to vote on this i'd like to be you know for us where we continue to move things forward and identify open issue so let me just report to the board on the working group meeting that joe and i had which i'm glad to see and the office of community development as well as the applicants as the applicant indicated and week involved us raising a lot of concerns about the storm water issues that had come up at the last public hearing and glen indicated that due to the size of the project and particularly due to the proposal to use pervious pa with which he and the town had very little experience he would be requiring that strong water management peer review so we discussed with the applicant having that happen sooner rather than later in the event that the peer review comes back with some proposed changes that might impact the plan in other ways so that proposal is underway i think that the applicants for have the up look and see in ok so we actually have  distributor ok today glenn received a proposal from b c s group and they have provided an estimates and indicated that they could proceed  so so that review can proceed i mean it would have proceeded in due course anyway but i think jeff jeffrey and joe and i really emphasized that you know rather then  know approving something having with some conditions having a stormwater review after that then having to have the alpha can't come back with potential changes it makes probably more sense for that stormwater here for you to proceed while we are still considering open issues in the application so that's got to set that in read that i am hoping that we can turn to some of the other open questions that arose at the last hearing as i had indicated we had wanted to invite the fire chief chief cell to come and address some of the ambiguity s that were identified in the letter that was part of our packets last time around in particular related to the  fire code as it applies to the proposed design and so i think at this time i would if anyone on the board has a particular questions to address one twenty seven c m r one went into effect about twenty five years ago in january of two thousand and fifteen so the regulations have changed prior to that there with only three small sections in the old fire code that covered fire lanes the new code is much more prescriptive of what's required for basically let's call it emergency access to the building i don't work off of hypotheticals you know what if we did this what if we did that we have to look at and examine what's been submitted by the applicant we hold everybody the same standard and then we apply what they've presented to the actual regulations so the initial applique plan that they submitted did have some issues we had some concerns with some radiuses of some corners that were regulations since there is already an access to the site of the proposed new building what what in c m are drives the requirement that there be a second  access point to the new building ok there is not sufficient access to the new building using the existing private way and the way the what's been presented would not meet the requirements of five twenty seven c m c m r one let me follow carlson so you're saying based on the configuration that they've proposed it doesn't work the proposal that they have proposed adding the access off market out meets the regulation or about the way they've configured the  have to be the way they've configured the building and their site they need that second means of access for an emergency road is that what you're saying no what has been presented meets the requirements i don't know hypothetically if they reconfigured their property and their parking in their current roadway lane in front of the building if they reconfigured all that and move parking and they may be able to comply with the regulation but i don't know what's under for substructure utilities and all the rest and whether that's feasible or not we also get into an issue with a school lane being a private road there are areas that do not meet the twenty foot with on day school lane and the day school nor the planning board nor i can in cumber a private roadway to meet the requirements of the c m are so you're saying that the proposed entrance from concord avenue which they're calling a driveway meets the requirements for an emergency ro they've proposed meets the requirements for emergency access as for direct emergency access roads so the the other use of that for daily traffic is outside the scope of what your concern is correct as with most other things the fire access or emergency access is dual purpose it's the driveway into a location it's the if you take star market for example is the roadway in front it's used as a roadway it's used at the driveway to access the parking it's also are fairly there but but let me let me just go back and not ask you on those that but just comment on this this access road or driveway that's proposed in terms of just fire it meets the requirement it meets the requirements for the very building that they're building  your question i have a question but it's not for the for chief purcell i will hang around in case there's any other questions that come  use of the associated driveway for general access to its campus are promoted permitted as of right under the zoning bylaws and by virtue of the dirt over amendment and mike my question is  how and does in fact the dover amendment apply for a second roadway when there is already a roadway in place now does  dover amendment allow for any amount of side work or not karl i think that's a question that word line opposed to door tongue in the letter just came in i thought for the first time in the day yesterday and so we've not had a chance to follow up with george so we will be engaging town council to get a response on that so i'm hoping that we can go through you know various categories of outstanding issues and identify the ones that all of us need to give further thought to in if there's anything in particular that we want to question the applicant  either tonight or you know ask them to continue on in any working group format then we can go ahead and do that because there are some entire areas of this application that we need not yet discussed at  all i guess i would start with the sort of the obvious first feature of the plan which is the barn building there's been you know the original plan was submitted there there were some changes made to the plan on the accent color of the barn in response to some comments so yeah the accent changed from the gold to the gray there's been some discussion about noise impacts and there was an to answer the i think that package of materials and and discuss whether there and you could take your concerns that people have with respect to that component of the plan  respond in a previous letter we provided information that said that the lights along the driveway would be extinguished one hour after the events are closed on in the school and  secondly we said that the building would not be occupied after ten the barn building would not be occupied after ten p basketball games what not that would go until about seven thirty or eight o'clock that's what's typical but there may be some advance that would go later during the year so what kind of events do you envision going until ten o'clock at night hypermarket head of school we typically want out of respect to this very concern and events that we have currently been hosting in our in our existing gym would continue to be hosted in our  distinct so as to make sure that we don't encounter any sort of late letting issues we have a one basketball game in the winter that is an evening game that tips off at about six six thirty each of those games runs an hour so usually the latest would be in the barn would be eight thirty nine o'clock  and there are no other events that would host late into  the guess i hate to call you back up right away but so if the game at typically ends if you know eight thirty yes you know as we're talking about evening hours and you know the potential for the lights to remain on until eleven o'clock at night if you have a ten o'clock close you know of events like what do you really need events going until ten it doesn't sound like it at this point i'm not expecting any events that the day school would be hosting would run till ten o'clock  thank you let me just comment kelli cardoza for the applicant about lighting we did provide a photo metrics study that indicates that there is no lighting that would over spill onto the cemetery property or on to the neighboring level property so i know you are concerned about the lights the lights have been designed very carefully with full cut off and and no over spill and that photometric study is provided in your application anything else we should discuss about the far itself construction management plan you know i mean is this the time to sort of have a conversation about what the road construction and how about to be temporary and how that would be used because i know that you were going to tell you talked about having it being used as a construction roadway for construction vehicles and you are yes the driveway would be the proposed construction entrance because that construction is proposed during the to school period and it's not proposed at this point to have the the primary entrants to run through the the the school parking lot so if the roadway or driveway were to be constructed to accommodate the construction vehicles i'm assuming you would put out a binder to bind the gravel runoff especially when you have a five percent slope at the beginning of the drive going to defer to frank on th tech and yes the construction manager is considering a bind of course for during construction ok that's a big piece that that's a positive step i think is there and it is a pay to duration of how long the temporary road would be in use the construction period is going to be eighteen months about eighteen months so it would be converted at some point from a construction worker to that final form of the driveway because of the previous pavement construction that would be done all at once it would be converted over to u to the driveway and surface all together we can't you we can't reuse that binder course what would you do to control stormwater management at the mouth of the driveway well under construction station that would be constructed in this case at the end of the driveway near concord have so attractive had in order to allow sediment to be knocked off the tires and for tires to be washed off as needed onto that question o so frank i guess it's safe to assume that that's going to be the roadway of the driveways going to be used as a two way access point then you're going to be going in and out of it not just one way and as you're proposing the road be used future in the future you're going to use it in so you're going to have a wash dishes only down the end you're not going to have it in the way you're not going to have it in two places you scott at one place correct ok i mean this trades at one time on the site and so they have they've been evaluating off site parking in that is their intent that either the faculty will park offsite and the trains will be allowed to park in the parking lot or  this parking lot is used for staging or construction workers will be parking offsite that hasn't been finalized but they are committed to making sure and the construction management plan indicates that they will be off site parking is needed and that there will be no parking on concord avenue or an on any of the neighborhood streets the general contractor is well aware of that requirement and is is prepared to manage that easily there's also decorum standards that talk about noise and language and you know trash and other things that would be provided that are in that application that were submitted from are there other plans for any police details during construction to handle the traffic both on carpet avenue as well as large vehicles going in and out of that roadway if there's a traffic problem there will be police details i don't believe that they'll have a will be regularly scheduled so will be throughout the entire construction but like any construction process if there are if it's necessary they will make sure that the traffic continues they'll have a street sweeper to make sure that there's no  silt on a concrete avenue as necessary it's a very well qualified company who's accustomed to doing work in boston in cambridge in areas where they have a small footprint where they can work and they're well aware of how to do that know we're happy to take that up or no there's not there's no final decision this evening so we can take further decorum standards into consideration and i think actually the applicant may already have some plans with respect to that so let's move on to  any further driveway issues you know we've heard from the chief on the proposed driveway we inform you that there will be a third party peer review moving forward  and commentary is there anything you like to raise tonight and that's not on traffic but back to the driveway and if i drive way also has an implication for landscape  because i know the stormwater of your review will be a hinge in my mind to then discuss more fully any type of screening or landscaping changes that may need to take place given the concerns that were raised about appropriate screening between the cemetery and the proposed driveway for the new project here i think i agree with your comment roughly i also have some concerns about how to adequately screen with landscaping given that we've been told that there will be no sand used on this road so i expect it will probably be salted and that's something that we're just going to need to take into consideration as we think about what things are used to screen the proposed driveway i don't know karl at this point if you have any further comments on that or whether we really does need to see exactly how this storm water is playing out but i think we need to see the storm water first i guess i have one comment  address them if needed before the next hearing so i guess at this point you know you said you heard some of our comments to have you taken into consideration the fact that this road is going to be salted and not sanded and have y appropriate species that will survive that salting no absolutely can you tell us a little bit about that sure i mean you know we haven't had an opportunity to present a landscape plan so i'd be happy to do that and i don't know much detail every body wants to get into on it the landscape how it is really a an extension of the existing woodland it's really deciduous native trees red opes red maples various evergreen trees closely we decided that it could really benefit from some additional planting so we showed some additional planting in the simulations and then we actually saw submitted a revised landscape plan that indicated that as well was that with the turning radius plan what's the minimum tree size that you're proposing for the deciduous the trees here are two and a half to three inch ok so i think we have discussion about this i'm not mistaken you and i discussed this if i'm not mistaken so i know that i think it was in the very first airing some of my colleagues have talked about the stormwater the screening and i also brought up the the lighting you have a twelve foot pole with the lighting on it you know for me as i think about some of the questions and concerns certainly for from the folks that are sensitive to the issue being a buddy and neighbors with the cemetary the purpose of the twelve foot pole lighting if you can elaborate that and if there any consideration to do a four for high ball or type of high lighting originally we had sixteen foot pole lights along the driveway which is a typical height for this type of application we had difficulty making that work because of the height with the over spill all over the property lines so that's when we  twelve feet by doing that we had to do decrease the spacing a little bit to get the adequate light levels that we felt were the minimum necessary for the driveway if we got into a b so let me just ask a question to follow up on that given the drop off in the morning and then on china remember exactly when that begins and what we've heard about how you know the last basketball game is maybe seven thirty at night i guess potentially we have so you know winter you know i guess maybe three hours in the evening i guess where potentially there's darkness where i am trying to understand i guess do you really need the entire width of the driveway and the entire length of the driveway lit and that way the school feels like they do have headlights on their cars i don't i don't see a justification for even an eight foot pole and given the supposed to be a low level one way road and i think you know  we still need to get past the b traffic question which is is this an emergency vehicle road with special events use or is it a daily use type of road or what is what is the actual use going to be of this road i know that we needed to some does not even a question that we need for emergency access to meet code so the big question becomes is this a road that's going to be used every single day by as many as a thousand cars is what i heard i find that hard to fathom but that's the big question i think that we need to ask because they think that's going to dictate what kind of lighting is going to be required to m road or driveway safer passage in the evening we have just a couple of slides that show how the traffic pattern will work during the day and i think you'll see that there's a pulse in the morning that we discussed and there's the pick up in the afternoon but that during the middle of the day there's almost no traffic and as we look at the potential  concerns expressed by the cemetery commission i think it's important to know that during the middle of the day there's almost no cars and i would just ask can cram our traffic engineer to kind of go through that with you ill take two minutes and and it'll show you how the traffic at on this proposed driveway will relate to the hours of the day is going into and out of the belmont day school and you can see you know like you would expect at any school you have two peaks one in the morning when people are bringing their kids kids to school and when the evening after early afternoon period when they are taken come in to get the kids and go home and you can see also because of the nature of concord ave being the road it is now with the blind is currently carrying there are also the same peaks but they're slightly later in the evening it's about five to six but what's to happen is when the traffic gets reassigned when they use the new driveway that bion gets cut in half and it goes up a little bit based on the fact that the school is projecting a forty five forty five student forty five student rollman but that's  what is going to possibly happen over a period a number of years it's not going to happen all at once and so the next slide is very similar you can see it's a smaller peak and that's projected the driveway if you add  those up you're going to get five hundred seventy four cars over the course of the day and again you see the peaks of people coming in the morning drop this to their children off in the coming in the afternoon to pick them up during the rest of the day in the middle the day between the roughly nine in one night into this week ten cars or less based on current operations at the school on that driveway over the course of an hour i wouldn't even notice it it was outside those peaks it goes down to virtually nothing so it's five hundred seventy four cars over the course of the day most of those occurred about basically two hours of the day when they're coming to drop their students off or coming to pick them  twentieth birthday and i think we would we would prefer to have this we would prefer to hold it sooner rather than later no we didn't i don't believe that we did you know i think that carl haglund voiced concern that there may be potential changes to things like the lansky plan in light of the third party review of the storm water management plan and so i don't think we're date is all we can do anything it has been and the virtues of looking realistically at the time requirements of each item on the edge and therefore there is no magic to we currently do not have a rep the jeffrey i'm a little concerned that any disruption in you know my understandable schedule could could render that very problematic and while i have everyone has their calendars open i know that bob our next scheduled meeting is the twentieth i know barbara is unavailable is every there's a bail ab but can we i'd like to at least open the items under topic four and move through the most quickly as possible  the first is twenty four twenty six while on the street neighborhood determination  which is every human approved landscape plants and this is my principal question for the board on this one obviously the owner is eager for us to move forward there has been a fair amount of resident unhappiness with this project both jeffrey and i have received a number of letters from residents who felt that the terms of the special permit were not being observed and my question is would people with the we have a report from community development you would people would people like to go see  apart from glenn is there anyone who wants who feels that they are not ready to move on no you remember this was the former haunted house and yes and yet there was no neighborhood opposition and the the landscape plan was quite simple and we have enou issue a temporary occupancy permit so that the owner can move in you want with the structure to secure this this is just this long overdue conversation i think we have to have regarding process and novelists i'm looking forward to the cover station the board about how we move things forward i was hoping  process in the office but i'm just i just know that tomorrow morning i'm going to get screened i'm going to just go with with that being said i mean i feel comfortable abstaining i mean i like to be is informed as i can do to cast my vote i don't has a considerably simpler planting landscape plan then the other and you know there was not a lot of reasonably acrimonious but there school parent neighborhood issues  move in and sleep in a sleeping bag so that  and you know i'm right and we do not have minutes so