in a separate bench trial and although i'm happy to answer questions on any of the issues that i've raised on appeal i would like to specifically focus on the issue that is common to all four of these cases and that of course is the issue of whether there was probable cause  first it was an unreliable witness her cousin caroline peoples who was implicated in actual second the police failed to corroborate most of the information that caroline gave to them and third even if that information that caroline provided is deemed than caroline yes yes caroline suspicion of was based on the fact that she said told police that she had lied repeatedly that that angel and entails boyfriend anthony had dropped to try to shift the blame off of herself and cast it in the direction of angela and angel's boyfriend happening but the main the main point is the informant's tip is usually the more reliable if they also try to implicate themselves in some manner but of course we have nothing like this here we have a line witness unreliable from that standpoint who also is trying to shift the blame away from herself even though curiously it is only caroline and not angel that has any connection as far as anybody knows  the defendant was the last person to be seen with the deceased about forty five minutes before her body was found the person that says that the defendant was seen with the deceased forty five minutes a very short time period before her death was another witness his mother who was deemed apparently a reliable witness but that's not the only thing the police knew in that hardaway case with a much more arrest on what else they also knew that he was had a criminal background he was a gang member and they knew he had deceased sounds i think is quite distinguishable from other cases and what it is it is something i think you probably agree that the police would certainly look into normally if if someone is last seen with someone you know before they're killed i mean it would be something that  comport with the fact that angelo or anyone else any other woman was in the car but disregarding that there does seem to be some similarity between the car that is parked outside usual house that caroline tells the police belongs to caroline's boyfriend and caroline describes and th and she said at that point that she was suspicious that that angel fort wright and anthony yes were that she was suspicious of them any phillip street they had before they went to arrest him till they had they had they had corroborated it and a mexican man with the name was a marquez who very oddly lived on the block directly behind caroline almost like behind her  point away from the probable cause to arrest direction two and one as they actually go to outside angels house the police at one am with caroline peoples and at that point she points out this is where angel lives and the car the point the car is gone so if they really you know that some of the police are recognizing they really are lacking probable cause because otherwise if they think there's a criminal there why don't they go up to the door to talk to rent then they don't know what at three am after they've been staking out this house for an hour initial voluntarily approaches the car it's not like she's right in the scene you know this is not showing any kind of flight or whatever she's coming up to the car but they have met on the record at this point she's under on i i don't know that i can cite a case off the top of my head right here for the flagrant see but i know that this is one when they talk about attenuation this is something that's pointed to the breaking the chain you know proximity in time you know there is there confrontation other miranda warnings which aren't enough it did it in this case i think there's a statement by the detective that once she got in a car he didn't think that she was you know when they took the stage that he didn't think she was really right that was but is there any suggestion prior to that that the police were anything that would suggest that they went there specifically to arrest her or could it be described as more of a fluid situation i mean i'm not sure that there's a suggestion here that the police went pacifically to arrest her because like you just said when they went there the first time they did they didn't wait and on the issue of probable cause we know consists of two parts reason to believe a crime is committed and a reason to believe that a specific individual committed goes down so there's a flexibility built into it based upon the urgency and the recent notice of the a fast and here we have a crime that was committed within a few hours of the having been discovered and within twenty four hours of the ultimate of meeting up with the defendant so we have at least a reset the facts it is a serious offense it is a murder so we have the police acting in an urgent situation need less factual basis than they might otherwise with a cold case all right well let me ask you this if the if the police  believe this information that she was with this other person you know four hours before with that amount of fat and nothing else yes that would be a much tougher argument for being a  another factor to consider in the case said bar we have two things that caroline peoples told the police one is that founded pointed out the apartment where the murder she said her boyfriend committed  seven and she said it was a mexican she said she knew the mexican from where she worked the police verified the existence of this murder and it occurred only a few weeks before her last week of  may now are on the last day of june so from that you can infer that not only did she have knowledge of the murder but she didn't do anything about it she didn't do what it is a person would be thick fog up to do in other words report furthermore it is also reasonable to infer that she was the connection between the victim and a boyfriend because it was painful for her right who knew the victim so it is  admits the fact of a crime in here should miss her complicity so if if you take that is true that would be a second violent offense that defendant could be seen to be and not just complicit in this case but to actually in light of the situation that we're dealing with you're in urgent situation i think it would be irresponsible for the police to allow this woman to remain at large now when they went to meet her and she police internet for to avoid suspicion or to make make it look like that they are going the extra mile to help the police so in this instance you have th defended voluntarily going to the station but there's there is no indication that she was ordered to there's no indication she was searched there's no indication she was handcuffed she was not book i mean this is the least intrusive you know briefs no it was not pretty so why are we talking about i just thought i'd throw it in there because i thought it was a reasonable thing to do in light of the fact that the police were in the process of investigating a  crime and they were acting in a reasonable to address the main contention of the apology and that is that the the person supplying these facts is another reliable person and you know there's a good there's a continuum starting with confidential  w i'm sorry anonymous informants all the way up to people who are confessing to crimes who were this caroline people's fall in terms of how we evaluate you know her reliability and whether or not the police can rely on her when they're looking at the facts that she supply well she's she's not a paid informant she is not an anonymous tipster and she's not someone claims to  comes in a position to know she is the defendant's cousin she is she she it mitts to having seen a number of things ok whether that she's reliable the police don't have to make a determination of reliability of the sort that is subject to judicial review they have to investigate a crime and that means chasing down leads whether or not the police are going to answer a question do we have probable cause is this person reliable well they were able to establish certain corroborating facts they were able to establish that there was a murder on philips they were they got all got into caroline people's current they got into the defendant's boyfriend's car so that connects that defended to this too that the events i think the police have to take her at her word unless they find specifically that she is lying to them ok i think that the police are charged with investigating a murder they can't simply say well this again that's that's it's hardly unusual for the police to to encounter people who don't want to get involved or will specially a fate volatile later found out for the for the police to have no previous violent conduct some of which it was it that she was associated with was corroborated and the fact that we're dealing with an urgent situation that gives the police a more flexible basis for doing things and ager for break head admitted other crimes tour especially the you know involving her boyfriend with the that the the marchesa murder and because she said she said she saw him drive off with the victim in the defendant's car so those things put together yes yes those things put together gives the police probable cause but we don't know that there's no proof that she's ever been driving this car no one has ever said that in fact this car that that you should have seen getting into again they say that men are in this car and this is more likely that maybe anthony's involved  one thing should be focusing on i don't even the record is really pretty silent on him but the fact is that carol that that angel again even if it if she had said that her boyfriend had done this crime it doesn't mean that she never said t there's anything to connect and the death of a shabbes other than the suspicion based on caroline then reliable witness saying the last person you know she dropped them off and then you know she got dropped off whether treatable believe that or that she has committed the offense that the recent see in the urgency the fact that this was a murder did this that you read that that makes it a little