very well defined issue and the claims have been found to be obvious over a reference call daily and there's no issue about that the issue which is daily prior art for is daily not for iraq and camps patte result of a number of applications two of which are relevant here both of which predate daily so if the disclosure of those applications adequate daily it's no longer referenced the i think the key issue here is that both of the applications have certain disclosures that are in common and you take those applications that are in common they show disclosure of hard work the st is the they say that most of the rigs radios are hard wired to begin with and then they say that they are connected by a wire between the steering wheel and the stereo and intervening that for the purposes invention is the interface device which converts the signal what missing of this whole part is that you take the wire and you plug the wire into the radio which is intended as a wire could try to understand with very high argument and if there wasn't substantial evidence to support the board finding that the specification didn't disclose hard wired because i guess suppose it would understand that that the inventor had this within his understanding because it's so basic ultimately it's not complex and ultimately predictable that one would plug a wire into the radio which is exactly how these things work and were designed to happen and it doesn't specifically say that  in the specification at least in the st specification but that would be yet it had everything to do so predictable you know your use of the word predictable i guess making think of the standard line that  what's obvious is not necessarily described how do you get on t v described side of a line by saying it was predictable because in this particular instance what the what the patent does talk about is that you hard hard wire  the existing radios and the only thing that is not happening here is this doesn't say specifically say to stick the plug in but that's the only pieces missing for one of the applications  reliance on the four hundred and forty nine application because that was something that was presented to the examiner but it was never presented to the board it's makes it difficult for us to pass on it now sure  support our argument it was made and the whole argument that was made from or was that was the school auteur within the specification although this particular part of the specification may not have been discussed  way to look at it is it's a separate issue because one question is whether the six dollars to seven dollars application provide a green description support and the other question is within the four hundred and forty nine application provided written description support put i understand part that's missing as we discussed before which is the fact that the there is not direct wire to a aftermarket radio that is specifically  the important item there is going to be four hundred and six a which is on the top right the sixty six to the top of count twenty two it says moreover the scope and function of the control output signals including hard wired and wireless control signals are applied to the microcontroller one your view that that language including hard wired and wireless control signals means you can have one or the other you get that's correct because in this pattern the preferred environment is wireless which is no argument that it was a continuation the four hundred and eighty five is a continuation from the four for nine pen so they share the same spec but there was never any argument saying oh look the four for nine application is where we should also look for a wired environment is in factory stereo and in another environment is an aftermarket stereo and a pellet never traversed that rejection never went to the board to try to defend or to try to defend itself against examiners rejection and so when the board got this case all the board did was look to whether or not the six dollars to seven dollars application which is what they argued had a wired limitation or not so that is what is before this court and that is what this court needs to figure out obviously the p t o argue that the inventor did not have possession of a wired output connection when the filing date of the sixty seven application if you look at the sixty seven application it talks about infrared diode this idea that you can just plug this cable into a replacement stereo it doesn't make any sense when you have an infrared diode at the end of it to send wireless signals and figure three and figure four a of the six application make this clear and the board found if you look at figure three there are these little squiggly lines to show the wireless output that's happening you can't simply plug this and appellant made arguments that it's possible that this transmitter is somehow optional but there's nothing in the sixty seven dollars to suggest that it's optional and there's nothing to suggest that the inventor at the time of filing the sixty seven application possessed some way to take that transmit er off employed this cable in so given all of that taking the four for nine off of the table and looking strictly at the sixty seven dollars there's no wired connection here there's no rain descriptor support which allowed the argument that this is pretty simple technology and you know a poser would immediately know that you could have this alternative i understand that argument and it is a simple technology you have wired or you have wireless but the the standard for written script to support is whether or not looking at the four corners of the specification whether a person of ordinary schooling are would be able to understand that the inventor had possession of whatever it is you're seeking and in this case that is a wired output transmission and just because while in wireless are not complex ideas if you look at the sixty seven application everything about it shows that the inventor had possession of something wireless there let's let's not get into that at all but i think that there's some issues with this the six to seven which is that yes it's true that there is not a specific disclosure of plugging the wired into the  radio but as i said before it's predictable that's the way it is now it's true that there's a screw description of the dot putting a diode at the end of the wire what you need to do that because one of the things that you do in the preferred body mint is for that embodiment you would have to do that because it has to be able to communicate wirelessly that's not to say that a wire has to have that component the end of it it does if it's just a wire and you just put the but if you did want to use that for a wireless you would have to modify it in order for it to work so the fact that that embodiment talks about putting that additional piece in does not diminish from the fact that you do have a wire cable one  detail which is predictable not complex detail is not exactly spelled out because the way that these devices worked is there was a wire that goes from stereo i'm sorry some steering wheel to the stereo and the stereos have an input for the wired bee and all that's really happening here is that in between the steering will that they're not that work but then when you came out of and and replaced the radio with aftermarket replace then you had a problem you couldn't just hardwire it the way was required before well that much you can do because there really is no difference between a rigid radio and aftermarket radio it's just that whether it came with the car it was put in the car afterwards the problem that we have the only reason the problem for two is that signals might have to be changed that's why you have the translation but in terms of how it's connected up that there's a path from the steering wheel to the stereo that is no different and that's work for the wired one all that happened is you were just going to connect these stereos up the way they always had been using the intended way and it's just a question of putting wire into the receptacle for receiving a wire ok