with the planning committee meeting of october twelfth two thousand and sixteen please come to order is now one thirty four my name is diane couch i'm the chairperson of the committee before we get going can we ask everybody in the chambers she is long range implementation implementation plan or yes ok we have different deputy corporation counsel michael hopper good afternoon and legislative attorney greg are no good  good afternoon and from the molokai district office we have tina thompson about three so we're going to get some things taken care of on this item and different to the next meeting so the agenda item is p c thirty seven parin two which is increasing him a tory of  available housing for individuals who want to open up public testimony a minute for individuals testifying in the chamber please sign up at the desk in the back or at the remote sites sign up with the district office staff testimony is limited to the item listed on the agenda today and we're going to give you four minutes you'll have three minutes of green light one minute of yellow light and when it turns red please wrap up your comments members if there are no objections we would like to expand that a little bit if people really have something to say because this is kind of  get everybody's in put up a meeting so there's no objections i may expand that a little bit you know if you're ok thank you when when you're testifying please state your name and any organization you might be representing all right so without objections will start public testimony ok the first one the sign up to testify is lawrence carter cheli followed by david and hopefully more of you are going to sign up and testify thank you chair lawrence carney cheli testifying on my own behalf as i guess a citizen chair just because of the fact that you know we are going to this this particular items going to come up more than once today of just like the introductory i really wasn't going to drill down on specifics on on the take i really just wanted to testify and state my gratitude i want to say my gra e to you chair for the leadership that you shown to put together this to go to rally people from the administration from the planning department from the outside to name mr cochran as the chair of the tig and so i just want to thank you mr couch for your leadership and then also mr cochran i really just want to say thank you the work product that you and your staff put together it was great i do have to admit going into it and thank you for allowing me to be a part of it  i thought that the unicorns and butterflies and rainbows or whatever it is was kind of going to kind of went out on that one but i really felt that the work product that you and your staff autumn and sarah and everybody that you guys that yeoman's job and there's a lot of really really concrete real world doable ideas in and what you put together so i just wanted to say thank you very much for that and i look forward to saying what i like about it you know oftentimes we get up here you know with a green light and we say everything that we don't like and what we're against and everything i look forward to actually sharing a lot of things i do like about what it is that you did and and things i think that that you know we can do to help improve and get affordable housing built and not just affordable housing built but also the rentals built too so i believe i talked to a gentleman is going to speak on that a little bit afterwards but i was just recently on co i and co why is killing it with affordable rentals public partner public private partnerships they're just killing it and we're sort of missing the boat so it's like i think this is the first step so and then of course misplace i thank you for being a part of it as well and you know there's many things that you're going to have to carry on as your legacy and this is just another one of those things so thank you and could you do me a favor and expend a little bit like killing it but what mayor carollo you decided to do was to put together an affordable housing task force that was soley nothing but the heads of departments not deputy directors not pencil pushers not anybody he just said no we're going to meet once a month and we're going to get stuff done and the deputy planning director came from the private sector he built affordable houses in the private sector and so he kind of knew how to you know deal with that person particular side of it they leveraged county money to go get affordable housing funds say from the state and then affordable tax credits from the feds and it was basically just one of those things that they said ok if we need you know something done from the water department you go get it done you know we need curbs and gutters and sidewalks of proof from from public works go get it done and it was one of those things like it was just a matter of hey we need to do this and it became a priority which is what we're doing now with the stigma and you know and we're looking at other options you know whether beet density in certain areas or rezoning or all these other parts that was part of what worked on this cochran put together but what coal why has it done is a they just said we're going to do it and then they had people in place that knew how to do that kind of work with public private partnerships in order to get it done thank you very much you know we can always borrow don't have to make our own mistakes right and the other part too is like you know there's some things like you know some moneys from the state that quite honestly we weren't ready for and co i was able to take advantage of what we couldn't you know so so they said oh you're not going to take that money ok we'll take it so it's like ok we're getting the par everybody's for affordable housing there's nobody against affordable housing it's like everybody's for it but what are we doing to actually do that and take the steps and i think that's what we're finally doing is taking steps thank you thanks a lot thank you members any further questions see none thank next up is david billy on followed by jack riley of one of the big points he would be made it's your first item on the planning committee items about the government's not doing basically not building infrastructure anymore expects everybody else to build it will happen in about about the affordable housing fund i notice you guys are talking about increasing it out to four percent that's great but my concern with affordable housing farm was the way it is that the last time and that is a if nobody's paying attention and nobody's really focused on it it could yeah actually disappear by accident because you have to make it on to the shorter every time so my thought about that sunset is do you really expect this to go next up is jack riley followed by tom crawl am an affordable housing developer and i've been developing for the running housing for over thirty five years done some here on maui done some all over the western united states i'm semi retired at this  point so i can pick and choose and i choose to work on now i am a resident here i raise my family here and i think one of the prior testifier said about the public private partnership is a way to get this done i think you're making a great step by putting this working group together and maybe as they say start to focus on this issue because there are tools financing tools and in real housing which  expertise it has a lot to do with money because you're having to construct apartments and you're not going to collect enough rent to pay for it so you need help now the county can help others federal funds available and as i've said  o i had it sounds like they're starting to kick into this and i think it's great that you all are coming together to try to do the same thing on maui i offer my services to the extent i can as a citizen professionally  we'd love to do stuff here but i think we can bring some things to the table that i would like to contribute and with that being said the money's out there it just needs a little seed money from the county and i think you could probably produce more housing than you think again with a full court press everybody gets involved as it sounds like why it's doing so other than that kind of spur of the moment appearance for me so i don't have much prepared but i do have thirty five years of experience and i have real time experience and one of my good friends who's also a partner is doing processing a hundred eighty six unit affordable rental housing deal and keep it right now and we talk all the time and so i'm kind of like boots on the ground over here so anything that i can do to help spur more housing i volunteer and really that's it thank you mr reilly members any questions that testify or chairman thank you very much for being here nice to hear that we have people that say this can be done because i believe it can be done and we just haven't figured out how where did you do this before because i guess i get bored easily or i need something to do i'm wanting to do things here so i'm pretty familiar with molly i've been here off and on since the seventy's and seen a  change and i would like to be part of the change for the better and where i can help of course is in rental housing that's what i do and bring some resources i think that would be helpful to the committee thank thank you members any other questions i have when you mention he said that the money is out there for rentals what do you mean by that well there's a program that i don't know if anyone's done one on o yet which involves tax exempt bonds as a funding source of the projects if you get tax exempt bond funding you automatically can get tax credits that don't come from the state of hawaii and you allocation those are very competitive those are very hard to get but you can bypass that allocation by going with the tax example and now when you do a tax exempt bond deal you will have a large funding gap you know that is where the county can come in and i don't even think if we roll up our sea sleeves and spend some time going to nestle necessarily will require cash money from the kind of like a grant it can be more in the form of loans that that's what i was saying about the seed money that seed causes a bigger tree to grow so we get some little bit of seed money from the county i mean one of the deals i didn't like whoa we had six levels of funding to make that thing happen so little brain damage for me but at the end of the day we have a beautiful project that everybody is proud of and you know working people that you know don't need a hand up but they need a hand up helping those people and it wasn't it was a project that sat for years and years and hadn't gotten done as had french or when i got involved with that they've been trying to do that for four years and i got involved in the i'm  originally successfully finishing what i start and i'd like to see some stuff here and i'd like to work on it and help you in any way we can notice that this group outreach is to developers and i'm actually housing developer which there are too many of those that do the affordable care and mr ali why do you think that that's the case that there aren't that many around i mean you've had to deal with here versus other places on the mainland what what are some of your thoughts on the hurdles well number one from a developer standpoint which i you know i knew that perspective it's hard to run an office and pay for people when you can really only do one project every ten years but you can't do that in the mainland you know development companies you know there's a volume and we need volume because that's that's how you run a business so here on maui you know what i've seen over the last twenty years is that it can't really support a full time real housing developers a few fellows in honolulu that mostly nonprofits that do it and the trick with nonprofits is they'll get stuff done but the costs are twenty five to fifty percent higher than the private side does so what the other gentleman said it sounds like was taken advantage of is these public private partnerships you know where the  public can you know get from the private side their their process and their cost saving so that they we focus on very very hard because it's our money and so it's kind of a different mindset but  you know i know i live on the west side and the housing situation there for working people is you know it's terrible i'm working on another project it's not a full on affordable project over there and i hope to start construction of that  by summer which would help but this affordable stuff there's so many more moving parts and there isn't anybody on maui that i know that could do a bond deal because it's very very complex it really is rocket science as we joke but the fact the matter is there many levels of financing involved to make one of these things work but at the end of the day anything that causes a red flag you know i didn't see of course any red flags or that it's really clear there's been a lot of thought and effort put into this it's from a certain perspective but as you know i have found on these of fordable rentals i'm not speaking to sell because i'm that's not my thing but on the rental side you have to do bigger projects you need economies of scale and so pretty much what i saw as i went down the laundry list you know that will help small projects but there wasn't anything in there that's going to help you know me as a former housing developer i didn't see anything that would help me and again i think you know my addition to that would have to be more on the finance side and i think there are some ways i mean we've identified four that you can use where the county can get involved and not grant money that goes away and never comes back but loan money you know join us and we can do some projects that will be of a decent size where the costs come down you know if i can build one hundred apartments i can build a lot cheaper assistant manager and a full time maintenance man i think you know when you get down to the forty's or thirty's in the twenty's you know they can't afford that and so it's just harder and then when you do the affordable you've got a lot of paperwork you have to submit every year for tax credits or the bonds or what have you and again you need a little bit bigger project because there's another full time job for somebody just doing the paperwork so again it's a commie of scale and to to get economy of scale in a larger site on and i think you look around you have to find the sites but to answer your question you can do i'm smaller but it's you know there's always trade off s so i'm talking specifically about of what's called a four percent bond deal with tax credits nine percent credits and other kind of credit you can do the smaller deals but it's a much larger subsidy and you have to compete in honolulu with the state and it is very difficult to get those things mao usually gets a deal about every three years well as what i've seen over the last twenty four kids thank you very much  before that just real quick you mentioned credits you're talking tax credits not housing credit correct these are these come from the federal government ok and they provide cash equity to help offset costs  of think it's here and thank you sir for being here the hundred that threshold you mention the hundred units what type of acreage or land space you figurine you need to accomplish that that's a really good question  i like to over the years go lower density because it's a better living environment you know less people is better you know we love neighbors but the sometimes better not have so many so th you have to go course on a site by site basis but you know what i'd like to see is fifteen twenty units an acre but here i mean we understand that i mean for example the market or a project i'm working on is going to be close to thirty so much money as he said in co i saw the reasons those deals are working is because the counties coming in and taking care of that infrastructure so you know it's there's no you know whack a wide answers unfortunately but the a lot of it is just the will ok we're going to make this work and then we grind on every single piece of the budget and then we go the same thing on all the funding sources and much and thank you for being here i'd like everyone to know that there is a project slated to happen community meetings will be coming in november still trying to find a room for twelve hundred rentals  could help that person i'd be happy to excellent thank you very much thank you for taking this current i have one more question it can't go that easy so you know having looked around sounds like you have to ask if you were to do another affordable project a where would you do it in b what would you need from the county i think probably the area that has the most need is the west side  so that's where i'm focusing my offer trite now i think it's clear to anybody who lives here makes that drive around the corner that you know we need to have a place for some of these people to get off work and have to drive back and forth every  day that would be the spot you know i've been thinking you know on an affordable say we found a decent side that there may be a way to provide what's in the business called gap funding or the gap that occurs if we did a four percent tax credit with the bonds and the county could come to the table with some loan money not grant money let alone money which actually will get paid back that could be part of the catalyst to get this done and you know you have to have like the county finance department would have to be involved and and i think that could make the difference you know assuming we can find a site that's so difficult on the west side where do you go i mean i was doing cites research about a year ago and i talked to some new major landholders that you all would know and they would say oh you know we got this on the board we're going to do this and i said ok where's your sewer and water oh well  it's over there i go ok that's a half mile away or a mile away you got to get that done and to the site and then we can take it from the side up just like what he said quietly you know you're getting the infrastructure and i was and so i would say you know live it has the biggest need it's also going to cost the most so if you come back on this side of the island you're going to have the costs are going to be quite as bad i mean all throughout the years and when we did front street it was back then it was a fifteen dollars per square foot premium to drive around the corner now it's probably forty five dollars but here you can get things done cheaper because they don't have to be hauled around the corner and all the back of the workers don't have to go back and forth so for your you know bang for the buck this side for where it's needed the most the west side you my answer there was any other questions members tom curley and i did review the work of the big and i really appreciate you taking a hard look at these issues and i just wanted to try to bring a not a non developers perspective but someone who works within the system you know i kind of understand the system a little bit now and i advise people on the county system if you will whether that be getting something back permitted that maybe they built or or trying to get something built that they might want to get built or getting a variance for something that requires a variance and here's what i can tell you from a very practical standpoint we have a county code the hard work is going to be culling those things down to actually make them practical and i want to give in and example of mr carroll's proposal to allow them to build allow people to build on his own smaller lots if you're starting with a five thousand square foot lot and you're you've got a bare piece of ground you can probably lay it out in such a way for a house and ohana so if we're going to develop a whole of new five thousand square foot lots great that's going to help but if we have existing homes on five thousand square foot lots which we have a lot of and that home is typically set in the middle of the lot and it's conforming with the setbacks that are required and it was conforming with the two cars that was required when they built it but now they want to turn the garage into an ohana oh now the two cars that the parking was there for aren't there in the garage anymore or there's some other aspect of what they're wanting to do they're getting into the setback areas and then they say sorry we know you want to do this but we can't approve it in what you put forward now the folks in the building department the books in the reviewing agencies they do their best to try to you know help people out here's what you could do to make this work but the reality reality is for most folks they can't make it work so what do they do they either do it without a permit which is the more typical thing that's that that's done or they abandon the idea and that's what i'm concerned about here is that in the report here there's a part that you put called barrier barriers to implementation and several of them say none i would take issue with that i think there are many barriers to implementation of many of these these recommendations let's take for example up zoning this  if you're bringing forward changing zoning in a particular area and you're going to tell neighbors all of a sudden there's going to be a lot more density in their area this could be full of some people some of the people organization no i don't want more density in my area so barriers to making that happen that are already in code so the hard part is going to be where can we give away on this code a little bit and you'll have the fire department coming in and saying no no those two buildings can't be closer than ten feet apart because we want to more than ten feet apart from our code and maybe that's a good idea and maybe some statistics says that works but the reality what's more important here at this moment building out thing that our people can and can afford or that point zero zero zero zero one percent chance that the spacing of these buildings might lose someone its life somewhere down the road so those are the hard harder barriers of implementation and that's going to have to come before this body to make changes to the code that are going to liberalise the laws that are required to build something and i just want to add one more little antidote and that is my own personal experience i'm not developing any affordable housing i'm at this moment just trying to add a room to my house ok a room to my house i'm ten thousand dollars into just trying to meet the paperwork just the paperwork that's necessary to submit in order to build the room and then i'm still i'm still in the process with that but in the meantime i'm sending that out to builders you know just small contractors about building that and i get back it's going to cost you about three hundred dollars a square foot to build that room three hundred dollars a square foot to build no bathroom no kitchen no you know just the box with the with the roof on it so when we have that as the basis you know that that it that the construction costs are alone are going to be that high the idea that we can produce housing in some way at two hundred thousand or two hundred fifty thousand that somebody can live in that's just isn't going to happen so you know there's there's a lot of work that has to be done i think that folks like mr riley who have done this in you know in many different places and on a broader scale can really help start this fire and get it going but on an individual basis you know  from from an individual trying to build something i can tell you you can't build an affordable hope oh you know even if you own the land and everything is already there you're not going to be able to build it thank you thank you members any questions to the test little barrier that they were running into but it's the department of health interpret ing that this room is a bedroom now by them calling it a bedroom they're saying you're adding a bedroom to your house so therefore you're going to have more waste and anything that would add to your waste would mean that you have to upgrade your cesspool to a septic system but you don't have the best human there but it's not a bathroom and bathroom i'm not having a bedroom i mean in fact i'm adding a room that by county code is not allowed to be a bedroom because it has a door to a garage so i code they say you're not allowed to use this as a bedroom but we have a state agency saying any room that you add is a bedroom so therefore you have to upgrade the cesspool to a septic which in some areas might be easy to do in my particular case is not easy to do so it kills the it kills the possibility of me getting through but that's just one of many hoops that that i got through i got through the other hoops along the way and anyone who's trying to do their own little construction project is going to have that same barrier of entry they're going to have to hire an architect like i did to draw the plans they're going to have to hire a structural engineer to stamp the plans and say they're structurally sound they're going to have to have a draftsman in place making those changes that that the department requires in order to me it compliant and like i say you're ten grand into it before you even find out whether you can build something that's frustrating  it helps me understand why we have these problems and you know it's not easy when we can say well we're going to change the zoning and we're going to have modeled plans and you know some of this just as we came up with but what are we go any other questions and seeing any other testifiers ok let's go to the office said that there wasn't any and so tina has gone so the only one left is  ok thank you and seeing that there are nobody no other members of the gallery coming down without any objections will close public testimony will objections ok public testimony is close thank you don we had the report from ms cochran from the temporary investigative group earlier this this year that we formed at our last meeting we got that report both in writing which everybody should have a copy and miss cochran gave a oral presentation now by now i hope everybody has had a chance to read the report and i know that they've got a lot of backup work behind the report but the report is relatively small compared to all the work that they've done so and once again thank you the group  staff for really doing a good job on this so having read this report what we'd like to do with since we have a bit of a short time today there's a a on page nine of the report there is a list of recommended referrals and i think we want to get those to the proper committees as quickly as possible so what i'm thinking of doing is is having a discussion on each one and then seeing what committee you want to refer to and then do that so the first one is talk about preferred prioritize county development of off site infrastructure you know before we start let me ask the department having had a chance to read this do you guys have any opening comments on this thank you chair you know one thing that really the only comment we would make is to be mindful of the timing of these proposals and the recommendation in the report does give an indication of what kind of time would be needed to implement these when we first wrote to the committee with our suggestions of ideas to increase available inventory we did try to think of some ideas that i would really have quick results and it's and i do more than you know the first priority is probably the one that could get implemented the fastest  so i think that's really good to see and some of the other ones are quite longer lead items and we just want to be mindful as we know you are to to put our any trees toward things that will produce quick results thank you ok thank you mr grossman i think you're for the department when you indicated item number one would i guess is the low hanging fruit well i know that the today has prioritize these items how would you ever prioritize these base off of what you just mentioned  chairman to do we can all we can refer them to the committees ourselves we can make a motion to do that the only concern would be that they could auto file if we go that route and i looking just at the five items i would probably move item five higher up item five is identifying underdeveloped properties with multifamily and industrial designations that could be targeted for redevelopment  typically and this is a generalization those would have infrastructure in place and so they would be predominantly ministerial permits only needed to redevelop those again that that's looking at timing as being a very high priority i mean all of these of course have merit  but just off the top of my head looking at the five priorities that one is would probably more quickly produce results site infrastructure especially water improvements sewer traffic to support housing and make it more affordable we do see pass through cos we heard that discussed choir looks like they're doing it and that's one of the things that certainly in the tech meetings almost every group that we talked to said yeah that would be something we can do question is miss cochran you want to since you're the chair of that of the committee do you want to  talk about the summary of the recommended actions for everybody this would have to be in my opinion we are we take a look at for the people who don't have a copy of the report and we just do a quick summary of requirements for the developer to bear the full cost of offsite and every structure has been identified as a major contributor to the high cost of homes a solid commitment from the county to developing infrastructure that will support more housing is crucial to allowing for creative solutions maui's housing prices one of the recommended actions is requested various departments infrastructure so be your committee most likely getting all the departments together to say what they what they would need for infrastructure and i would assume that they're going to need a parcel of land kind of thing to to say ok if we got this piece of land what would the budget be to get that infrastructure so that we are where you would see that going you know i think because weighs heavily on that infrastructure component that i guess it would fall into i am yeah but it has that budgetary aspect to can if you guys discuss it in find out what is needed then they can put it in their budget and then they take it to the budget ok that's that's the way i would think members and other thoughts on that on the number one referral i have a feeling that that's where they would need to go you know we have long term planning about where we're going to plan our project and i would assume that long term planning is based on a general plan where growth is going to be so i don't know if this has to be a really big deal we should have this information already you know we have the information the question is how much is it going to cost to get the infrastructure to that spot right but you know we cannot i  make this manageable we better be realistic as to what we can do maybe in the next ten years but we can go on and on and plan for fifty years but what i want to see because we want to see action is realistically what can we do in the next ten years for building every day what will it take to do it so i don't see that as a really really big deal once we can identify where we're going to put it ask to get that kind of feedback you know what the cost would be where would it be most feasible to do to create affordable so definitely you know the dialogue needs to go to every department in in respect to what part of infrastructure needs are we looking for and i guess providing some kind of a letter from us to the different departments if is where is you know we've got the plan and have you guys been in touch with the developers that want to get something going because i we know that there's a project right out here that  needs some heavy infrastructure costs you know who's going to bear the cost of that so with what's going on i know we only have the general plan right now in the community plans are on their way  given with what what we've got do you guys feel sufficient enough to be able to pinpoint an area and say look we've got this much of a structure now and just a little bit of planning and coordination we would suggest this location that location and this location and then we can send out the letters to the department saying what would it take to get infrastructure to that area i would suggest more of a collective discussion on it because the planning department could identify an area based on let's say level topography the and roadway access but environmental management might say oh you know to put in a pump station and line that we need to serve it is going to be you know ten times more than if you did it someplace else so i don't really know that one department in particular should drive the discussion to finding locations in different areas it should be a collective discussion that all things considered this is the best place for the county to devote resources based on on what our plans show based on where existing infrastructure is to tie into based on capacity and so forth so i don't think it should start with us and give a recommendation and then one department says oh yeah that will be easy for us and another says no that will be too expensive you know to have the right to have a collective discussion here would be to get everybody in a room and not necessarily in the chambers here but in a in a room to say ok if we were to direct the the growth yeah if it's you know find find one or more parcels that could result in x number of units you or that could serve x number of units you know we want roughly this many in south many this mid south now we this many in west maui this many in central and just figure out ok what what are some of the better options been created in a sense in the community plan process but it just really needs to be targeted in the sense of affordability of housing because it sounds as though the information or the collaboration is already or will be done at the community plan level the matter of whether you can make it more affordable is the question i think that data can be obtained you know where you want to put in you know how many units at that stage for debility component to make it costs a fair but it sounds like that we already have a built in system to allies sort of it's a situation where currently people are in their own departments and looking at things but what we really need and that may be that may be number two might be the  more important thing at this point is that we get number two which is by the way third party not county employee chief to coordinate construction of affordable housing maybe back that up a little bit more and say look this person is going to facilitate the county and say ok and get developers in the room and say here's some land you guys if you guys have ideas i know mr atherton has his ideas over here mr riley has some ideas in west maui i believe who's got down here by by the river i forgot who's got that but there are several that people are still make are making inroads so maybe we need a coordinator to say let's get everybody together and then county here's what we need for infrastructure go from there and working with the this myself and this cochran and you oh i'm looking at number two and saying maybe we have this backwards maybe two should be the first and let's get that person who will you know the idea of everybody somebody and nobody but if it's somebody they're going to have to deal with it and coordinate and make all this happen so i think that that's really important and i want to say that i agree totally and i want to emphasize again that this can be a county employee because it is going to take us six months to find a position and advertise that's not what we have in mind and don't laugh because that's all i understand some of the dialogue it was i was wondering are we talking about our own county or lambs are we talking about the private sector out there because if it is you know as mr riley said in west maui you talk to every large land owner they're not in the market to do this right so what do we do as the county i don't care what we say how much money you want to put into infrastructure there are now in the market to do affordable period so we're stuck there is a gentleman there who's taking over a project he has to do some you know for a magazine in order to get the rent versus market sale so that's where anything and this person and number two the third party coordinator of sorts can go out and start dialoguing with me people and figuring out where is your roadblocks in where how can we assist to expedite what you're planning and you know but they have to have  in their plans ready to want to do it right what you have that you have your guy out there that was going to do the twelve hundred ohms is that a situation where we what kind of infrastructure is necessary to go there and what can the county provide you know that kind of thing they could be also people who are ready to go now like mr atherton and the folks down here i forgot like i said i forgot who it is but they're ready to go they're just having to find out how to get money for the infrastructure if we put the infrastructure in there work with them so great and so yeah mr chang i mean who of course they're going to take help from you know offset his costs of building this out  of course there's already conditions in place for this projects and we'd have to take a look at and things of that nature but um yeah it can all assist you know movies on the floor so then moved on to number two this seems to be this is something that probably and for the people who don't have it have this in front of them third party not county employee chief to coordinate construction of affordable housing this sounds like something that we can refer to remediate agree can be done and can be done quickly or at least get gotten to her committee any concerns about that ok so the way i'm going to we're going to have to i am going to entertain a motion to recommend that the that this referral the third party not county employee referral number two on the ticket report dated october sixth two thousand sixteen starting with page nine section four be referred to the housing and human concerns and transportation committee cha record show the motion passes five eyes two excused and excuse for the rest of the meeting for now or mr vick to reno and mr white ok good we got one down to the proper i think it's going to be a proper committee and some of these you know having looked at some of these members i also think that we have to really work with the administration on this one you know we can give suggestions will write a letter to the administration say look this is one of our suggestions what can we do to help you facilitate that for instance this one stop shop at the new county service center for processing permits and just for everybody out there the summary is have it employees with decision making authority president from all departments that need to prove permits planning ziad building permits this is an idea that the the managing directors permit process improvement team investigated a while back and without going into detail there just some practical difficulties to it if it fundamentally seems like a pretty basic and easy idea but when we started talking through the logistics of making it work it it became pretty difficult and we can talk about some of the details or the managing director might be more appropriate to talk about that since it involved other departments in the landing but it hasn't it was something that was looked  we didn't go forward with that all right members some of the recommended actions here are interviews i'm reviewing approvals of the new county service that are included space for a one stop shop include funding for a one stop shop in the budget for the service center and explore models by other means that municipalities such as the city of san jose i personally went down to the city of sounds a inside it they're doing it  with great ease and you know they they had some resistance from the all the departments but they have a space that you walk in and there's a c know it's just like the d m v they've got the same machine and everything queueing thing they'll come up somebody's come up with less than five hundred square foot five hundred square foot or less addition to their own or a deck or whatever and they come up somebody will try to tell him ok you need to go here's your waiting number and they'll go to a window there's about six windows where they sit down with a planner or a planned review person the plans for you person starts a clock they look they see what they need to do and it doesn't have to be architect approved plans it can be relatively decent hand drawn they look at it they say oh i think i need somebody from planning to come in so that the people in the back room there's a bunch of people in back room they they call in a planner plan a looks at it they call in somebody from water the water looks at it everybody who needs to look at it real quick and within an hour usually those people are out of the door with a permit in one hour now it's the there's three levels of permits that's the first level the second level is an expedited review where you where you  actually make an appointment to come and say i've got these plans and then they put all the departments in a bigger competition and they sit there and they look and they may take a day or two or three but usually by the end of three days they've got their permit and they're gone so those are the top two things so it can be done now what are the procedures that need to be you know what are the laws that they have versus the laws that we have some of the things that have to go through different departments we don't know those are the kind of things we want to look at and the spices but you know i really like that idea and it sounds wonderful and i've heard other people use it but you know just just for the sake of discussion talking about what we heard today how we handle department of health pyramid which we have nothing to do it if that's the bugaboo you know so we can do that colony stuff but then we get into problems with we have one stuff we have no control over when the question i have to the department then and this may be more for d s a but if you guys know does something like that have to go to department felt this every plan that somebody wants to put in have to go to the department of health know not every not every plan gets routed to department of health so there's a checklist that says if it does if it meets this criteria then escrow to department of health that's correct just like every permit doesn't come to us most do but not everyone does who makes those  next time we talk about this yeah either we can bring the man or this might be something that we can send to to discuss how this could be done when you think do you think you have time in your committee or whatnot is going close to the end of the term anyway for the one stop shop for the one stop shop on how it can be done if it can be done this far as getting all the departments together we should probably have because d s is the one that of drives the permitting process actually i was still looking back i had i'm one and thinking you know we we were we skipped over to two to get that third party person involved i think trying to say that that person could take care of item one sort of right but i would like my committee to start ready for this upcoming budget cycle ok so that's why i was hoping in that reference to number one and i'm asking now with this body if if you folks feel that doable and would like to see that happen i'm more than willing to bring into i am and start working at now ok so now you're asking about the one stop shop to come guy you know yeah but i want to just relate the fact that i also visited marine county just as you did in san jose and they're in the process of doing the same exact things i didn't go back to see the final result but as far as i know through you know our n p r new e very much in support of this and you know i think i think both of those can go to your committee if you have the time i know you want to work on number one person that's good y as of the budget session and i really really want to get some figures to bring into budget so we can kind and that's the point and i'm fine with him for sorting that into your committee if we work in conjunction with number two yeah sure fine so then the chair will entertain a motion to recommend that the first of referral label prioritize county development of off site infrastructure especially water improvements sewer and traffic to support housing and make it more affordable and reduce passthrough costs be sent to the committee chair so move it's been moved by by miss bice any comments on that and also i mean to to get as much information as we can via my committee to disperse to the ok any other comments all those in favor please say i oppose records show five eyes to excuse so that one will go to i am now back to number and they are kind of all intertwined number three that the one stop shop now it doesn't have to be at the county service center either i mean it kind of can go in kalina paku a because they're already there on the bottom and then on the top they had the way they worked at it it least in san jose they had the on call planners had their desks all the people at their desks so they did their regular work and most of it is computerized anyway so they were able to do their regular work and then when they got called they went right right down and yeah because we're spread out so far it would be better to to be in a centralized location if you go out to the service center if that's still go i would describe the desk of all the different departments about these two put together and then in the back the cubicles and other you know that way if they had to go and speak directly to records of water department or  or planning whatever those bodies were in back of the main desk and that was kind of the one stop shop idea so i saw that being built at the time and it didn't take much space you know they were utilizing reexamining it to accommodate this process so that's why i was just mentioning that it doesn't necessarily have to be at the county service center so we can you know or or other we can say something like at the new county year we have the property but whether we're going to build it there we're not going to build it there we've already heard other opinions on this floor correct and we don't know when and you know for me getting these items going is really important and i don't want to sit here for years while we try to figure out where we're going to put that new service center and where we're going to get the money and you know that stuff we want this to do go so while i'm willing to discuss the center i think better we have this more open and correct and again this will be something that would be again i think in miss cochran committee at least she can discuss it o the words or appropriate other appropriate location after the words county service center yeah right so will be for that one too next meeting number four's revise county housing policies both maui county code chapters two point eight six and two point nine six to encourage the development of affordable housing and reduce barriers and costs and one of the recommended actions is to look at  ordinance number eight six zero the quiet county council is considering land be king and number two research and identify how the county's housing policy may be amended to improve success in getting affordable housing built in this cochrane can you expand on that a little bit i'm trying to look up exactly what the ordinance is what one of our testifiers mentioned and i think is sounds like it has something to do it's page was his referral number for revised housing policies it's about halfway through the document it's a quite county councils of resolution for reaffirming council policy to acquire land for the development of more  affordable housing and they go in the water where as is and they be it resolved we have resolved that the county work to acquire land through condemnation if necessary for the development of affordable housing we have further resolved it quite county quite identify parcels that are fifteen acres or less in size and are in close proximity to infrastructure and jobs so as to minimize development in household transportation to develop affordable housing for residents of course i and one other a couple more work in partnership with private nonprofit organisations when feasible to acquire land and develop the needed and affordable housing units  land acquired for affordable housing projects by the county will not be subject to the one time subdivision rule regulating the subdivision of agricultural lands that's a key that's a that's a big one  affordable housing units are intended for long term ownership and will be subject to long term buyback provisions and once purchase a parcel of land cannot be immediately developed that cannot be immediately be folk will be land bank to buy the county for future affordable housing say that at the time that it takes consider this quiet right now is dealing with a lot of the same issues with affordable housing that we are and so this resolution was just recently adopted in have one section which is this ordinance eight sixty and they're affordable housing policy and they're looking at amending that right now though i checked with them before we did the report and those changes weren't available yet so what we're  think we're hoping with this item is that it will get referred to the appropriate committee so that they spend more time researching and tracking all quiets doing and we can learn from them ok i i do know that they also like us ha had their sugar production you know and there's a great deal of land that's available and so and there's also been just like we have talked about today where  you know the government has to get involved and see what they can be used in order to make it affordable and so that's why they're looking at you know the former plantation man so there's just a lot of things kweisi going through that i think mowing is to and so this item is hopefully going to a committee where they could do more research talk to the folks on a wide find out what they're doing what their proposals are and see if some of those things would work for us as well and this laws for affordable housing i have two three schools of thought in that maybe h t or p r i any thoughts from the because it falls into t let's let's try eighty h t in that you know they need they need some need need of quite a bit of these so that they can kind of formulate a plan so so that was my answer pardon yes so without objection we'll refer this stage h t v action ok that's similar to ok number six is propose an amendment to maui county code section three point three five point one zero one zero b to require a larger percentage four percent of real property taxes to be set aside in the affordable housing front this is definitely i think  you can go to budget or p so the question is do we even need to do that we can make a recommendation at budget time to say look we want to put four percent in not study but i mean just make the recommendation from here to say yeah but he's going to research how much money are we talking about you know what is the need for what i thought he should be ready so your thoughts are to you know as well as i do how little time we on properties in west and south maui there are a couple proper pieces of property here there's a four point zero two acre lot hanako i the county has under executive order from the state of hawaii and property to three parcels on q one hundred driving key here owned by the county the total land area is five point seven five acres mine is the area now occupied by the fire station the land was originally planned for use as a police station however this plan has grossman this is actually you know in my mind would be a good model to try out you know i always thought that we could not not thought you could the county could create a properties place into the under the name of that land trusts you could actually model the county could have its own type of that trust model that they could sell and it would be in  housing the land trust so yeah i want to start with a small part of parcel so that it doesn't get to you know if we had mistakes in iraq be we can easily correct those maybe too you know two or three parcels which indicates here it looks like you know three parcels well they're all you know buying there oh yeah area right i mean so you want to start something you know with something fairly small when you want to  do you know start off you know a template that's a that's a good it's a great this is a great opportunity to try it and if we if we fail well you know it's not that big of a deal in terms of the you know the size of the circumstances occurred in these these reports and studies that we came up but most not to say we can't try it right so by all means you know i love the idea you're having done research that we fight i think you i think there is ok we are the developer as well as the the body that sounds so at some point we could turn around and partner with the developer and we own the land under the trust that we get a percentage of the sale price we put it back into the affordable housing fund and we use that money like a revolving fund to purchase more land but you know these are just pie in the sky type ideas but we minimum lot size for farm labor dwellings on agricultural land that sounds like it should stay right here i'll discuss that with the planning department today i know they have some concerns on small lot size is said that kind of will go in conjunction with that clustering bill that we're trying to work through some of the concerns with the department that number nine allow for an independent third party building plan review process we can go with we could probably do that and i am because that's where the plan review process starts that may have to be some we may have to go into executive session on some of that but we can't do that here right now but i think this would be good for i to discuss any objections to that you know all right so recapping that was the nine number one is going to go to i am number two they teach to number three we're going to come back  to when we have a public works and managing director here as well as planning so we can all hashed out number four is going to h h t number t number six p a number seven h h t and number eight stays here and number nine goes to i any questions on that department do you have any comments on that close to where we have to head out to our next function that we're all participating and i understand and i want to thank you very much we will go through we have the next meeting on the twentieth of october and we will have that item as well as our number the number one and here is the fordable dwelling unit mr carroll's bill i believe it's p c twenty eight that the item number i it's the number one issue on this to report so we're going to bring that up right away as well as we'll finish will figure out what to do with the one stop shop one bite at a time we'll finish it we'll get it done thank you very much staff thank you testifiers and we're going to see if we can get some a panel to if we can get that