one thank you chair this is a request from ms leona rocha will soon for a state legit commission special permit and a conditional permit in order to operate the luna ridge special events project for special events filming archos retreats  workshops on property situated in the state agricultural district at five eighty eight drive p m k three five two parcel ten  not testifying anything you regarding the petition and least refrain from testifying this moment and what happens is that based on the result this commission cites to whether application by doing so what the essence is that he's asking the commission to make him a party to the proceeding so that he may participate as a party in other words he may call witnesses he may ask questions he may make presentations and receive information about the matter so what the what the chair asked anyone wishing to testify today to do is to limit their testimony only to the issue of whether the efficient to intervene should be granted or denied  moment we are not speaking to the merits of the application in other words this is not about whether the application is a good idea bad idea this is limited only to the issue of whether the  titian or mr davis should be a party to the case and depending on the outcome of that decision that will determine the commission's next step however at when the merits of the application are decided there will be another opportunity for people to present testimony on on that on the on the merits ok so i'm going to call your names and with that understanding if you have nothing new to share please refrain or postpone your testimony regarding the narrative of her application at a later time ok thank you susan grub six by the county planning department on august first two thousand and sixteen number three states davis has misrepresented the support he has received for his opposition and intervention to the application proposed permit unquote i would like to submit to the committee the copies which i believe you all have of this ma a new petition which i started circulating within one month of the last hearing the new petition was signed and these opposition sixteenth two thousand and sixteen a thirty day period after august twenty third hearing seventy nine percent of the homeowners within five hundred feet of the loan or ridge l l c including mr davis are imposed to the special permit the majority of owners within my local heights one and two are opposed loaner ridges l l c's attorney is incorrect in her statement that mr davis has misrepresented support to the intervention  to the members of the maui planning commission thank you for the opportunity to speak my name is lillian men go away little white homeowner who resides within five hundred feet of the owner ridge l l c i support mr davis petition for intervention the impact suffered by residents why little heights are the same for mr davis and all of us increased traffic and a related increase in public safety to children increased noise especially at night and possible increase in criminal activity in nice safe neighborhoods what's unique in mr davis's situation are the complications associated with the prospect of having a commercial venue at the top of his street when all traffic to and from owner ridge l l c will go past his house mr davis essentially is filing this intervention on our behalf all neighbors and especially those living within five hundred feet of the owner ridge l l c we will all have to endure the negative consequences of commercial activity in our neighborhood there is absolutely no benefit to mr davis and the rest of us i permit is approved for the past four weeks i have been collecting since signatures repetition opposing loner ridges permit applications and homeowners have signed opposition letters as you can see from the map and the stack of signs but dishes and letters we were able to contact many homeowners readily agreed to sign a major consideration for you the planning commission is to look at the overwhelming opposition from our neighbors who hides and to reason that most of the homeowners within five hundred feet of the owner rich l l c marked by dots on the map are opposed to the permit my understanding is that planning commission weighs this very heavily in its consideration of the permit tell davis and the homeowners why the heights of wine and two have made it very clear that commercial activities in a residential neighborhood will have a negative impact many many homeowners step forward when we ask them to sign our petition several mentioned their concern and hope that this intervention will stop commercial business activity in the neighborhood thank you thank you then let's you know granted and unfortunately because of where he lives he has just going to be impacted by everything and when we're looking at it remember those venn diagrams those circles back in grade school where you have like if you have a circle with all animals second fly you have another circle with all animals that have two feet and there's an intersection where so you look at number of people who live within five hundred feet up on a ridge that gets down to about eighteen and then you consider who's going to be impacted by the noise the safety the traffic who and so we have a situation where you know the general public has is impacted by all these adverse impacts but because of where he lives and within five hundred feet  this curve and being a homeowner he's directly impacted by all these horrible horrible and he has the misfortune just because of where he lives so because of that i think you know educator and school administrator and a former member of the maori planning commission after hearing our corporation council the definition of intervention i would like masters in education i've ministration and i'm about to complete my dr of studies in school airship curriculum instruction and all the things related to school administration i also include chair is trying to destroy my credibility and integrity and reputation for that matter speak before you and he made false statements that are they're a let it be something that you would consider unacceptable because we don't need false statements and all kinds of accusations not only to myself again i would like to reiterate my support for the law no rich application and my opposition for the british and to intervene and let the process work you folks are trusted by this community to do your thank you rick scott of many that would like to see how davis somewhat as i understand a representative for us i don't know if we're supposed to speak about our resumes today but i've got one just to  e all i can say is i support the intervention and i've got a lot to say but i want to stick to the subject thank you total support of mr davis's petition for an intervention and there's two things that have not been provided to him to protect him and protect the rest of us property owner's  rights my questions are were zoom veyron mental impact study by this commission or the owner of roots or i'm sorry of the owner wilson as to how this conditional use permit will then why luke heights resident if you approve this permit you were single handedly destroy our community you will prevent me and my fellow residents to have the use in enjoyment of our property the other question that i have for you is that the approval is this really use permit will undoubtedly lower our property values if you grant this petition there is no doubt the property values will decrease and case law has already established that if property values decreased due to government intrusion it is a taking under that system in and my question to you is is the count prepared to reimburse property owners after they have suffered significant losses in their property values in closing i thank you for your time and i will appreciate an honest evaluation on your part because we rely on your ability to make a sound decision on this petition i think you can add anything more just awesome and i hope you consider all what people have said when you make a decision have tourney's here they're saying you know this is the way it's going to be and that's like a lot of people that's just distasteful when i mean when i mean anybody makes you do something that's against your will and you don't have a voice that's wrong with  davis as a voice speaking for many of the residents might be more parnell in other words what we did what did the planes do in the old days that often but probably discuss things yes they might have had war but if we could sit down and agree and have many voices speak and if lianna or representative could try and i know some of the difference is that people have wouldn't that be the right way to go i think so thank you so is there anybody else and technically the entire neighborhood should be recognized within five hundred feet because of limited access to gas would be required to drive through the entire neighborhood impacting all residents with an increase in traffic noise davis thank you talking about intervene so you're ok i'll come back later no problem you chair i believe the next step would be for mr davis to speak on behalf of his petition to intervene and he would be followed by ms wilson represent the  as you know the application is for a special use permit and a conditional use permit for business uses that are outside of the nonprofit functions not sure with his retreat work cultural events and ceremonies and other business activities my client mr davis has found a petition to intervene the applicants oppose the petition the opposition is based on two separate grounds one is that mr davis doesn't have standing and the other is that this petition will not help clarify or dissolve the record for you for your consideration i think both of these positions are grounds particularly given the fact that he has met the requirements for intervention because you choose involve the overwhelming opposition of the entire subdivision to this application so the first argument is to the aptitude to oppose intervention is a supposed lack of standing under your twelve to a one forty one b there are two parts to this rule the first is the language in twelve to one forty one b itself and then the second is the overwhelming directive that a petition to intervene should be freely granted as to the language in twelve forty two a one forty one b in order for an interview year to come in front of your board and to be part of this proceeding he must have either one a property interest in land subject of commission action or two he needs to demonstrate that he will be so directly and immediately affected by the matter before the commission that his interest is clearly distinguishable from that of the quote general public that's what the rule says the opposition asserts that because mr davis resides in a house six blocks away from the entrance to the wilson property and he is not directly and immediately affected by approving the applications condition he is permits and that i think that that's not in keeping with any taste or with any proceedings in front of this commission in the past in order to intervene you do not have to let the chase into the property if that was the rule and said then the rule the question is is is is interest different from that of the general public so what is the root word general public mean general public is you and me i live in hoover i don't know where you live i am not affected by this development he however lives in the subdivision and there are a significant number of people in that subdivision those this as he lives close enough to the property values going to be affected by a number of issues  traffic noise by safety concerns so he is going to be affected by a possible drop his property value so he has an immediate and direct involvement in this proceeding is not a member of the general public it's rules designed to exclude from filing petitions intervene second issue is the second point in the rule is that if you look at twelve or one space twelve tool one pete twelve to one forty one d leave to intervene shall be freely granted i would suggest that this is one of those situations where this commission should freely grantley that word has been traditionally mean t a court or an administrator by such as this needs to strongly consider granting leave to men unless there is a significant problem with the application which we submit is the second argument that the opposition raises is that the intervention here will not expand the record or invention and in fact will create the inefficiency in the process we we six strongly suggest otherwise it was the person who testified earlier passionately about let the process work points out that you have the right to make this decision without intervention but the process includes the right to intervene in the rules that's the process the process is you have a matter that comes from point of view if there's some third party outsider who wants to intervene and officially they have a right you should grant that right so i would agree with the person who made that impassioned plea and you should let the process was and let him enter the house to the specifics of how to develop the issues we think that this intervention will in fact help develop issues mr davis is not alone of crying in the sky up on the on the line who hates rich he has the support of almost eighty percent of people who live within fifty five hundred feet he has the support of more than fifty percent of people in the subdivision so he's not alone will he is represented by counsel so this process with intervention is not an idiot and champ process there's two attorneys representing the parties in this process and they should be able to handle the process efficiently moreover i think the record will be developed by this intervention it will develop the neighbors viewpoint it will develop the impact on neighboring agricultural products in terms of forty million of those properties it will develop whether the petitioner can use a lot in the subdivision to access the low to ridge l o c property for business purposes and not for the purposes for which i letter from the office of planning status and it was copied it was sent to mr spence and it was copied to the land use commission and if you look at this letter particularly the second page the office of planning has significant concerns with these two applications i'll read to you their concerns if you look to paragraph four paragraph four says that the applicants must demonstrate what special circumstances exist to justify approval to the special permit process that pose a question to you what special circumstances exist here what what is special about this property and this person's condition a special use permit to conduct commercial business properties on agricultural land i understand from the previous testimony at a hearing that one of the reasons that the applicant wants to go forward is as they need the money that they this will be a way to create income trees on the property that the developer in the chair i would point out to you based on the exhibits that they have in their opposition the property was purchased by loan a ri lot of ridge but two pieces of property here so that if you get access to the five acre property in the property that they bought in one place they don't use for anything other than access i would suggest to anyone here that if you're going to you'll do that make that kind of investment you would have thought very well and hard about the nature of your investment and whether you're going to be making money or not growing trees on the property whether they're successful or not that's their issue but the point is just because they need more money doesn't give them to right to get right to have a special use on this one if you follow that line of thinking that anybody can come in here with an agricultural property you say you know what my f plans not work you know the goats are producing the bees are thriving i can't raise cattle i need to make more money on my property and i want to have a commercial use so that's not a special circumstance that's not a special circumstance so i think the intervention will develop what special circumstances there are that justify having the special use permitting conditions permit also point out to you the letter from the state in section five  where it says opie questions the reasonable to use within the state agricultural district the special permit guidelines in hawaii administrative rules fifteen fifteen ninety five provides a proposed  as chapter two o five which covers agricultural lands and the uses of permitted uses in agricultural lands so you have the state question in this application strongly question it goes on it says the major objective paramount issue with this commission the proposed special events venue constitutes a commercial visitor oriented use that could result in increasing agricultural land values to the detriment of farmers seeking to acquire agricultural and pursue agricultural activities this is the state of their concern that if you allow this use it will increase the value of this particular agricultural property and so on and realtors are selling comparable properties near this facility they will point to that and this will raise the value that cultural and for those who want to farm that's a big concern of the state and it and it's something that needs to be taken into consideration and something that we can develop on the record for you in the intervention seconding the state points is that the state is concerned about related adverse impacts caused by the proposed use in terms of increased traffic in the area increase noise levels in the area and the establishment of non agricultural visitors serving uses such as better breakfast short term vacation rentals restaurants and retail shops within the agricultural district all of which i understand to be swear words and this is commissioned so here you have the state very very concerned about this project all we're asking for is an opportunity to intervene in the project and to have our position known and address good afternoon commissioners chair counsel and staff i appreciate the opportunity to go over this my address is going to be a little bit shorter than mr davis counsel's address because a lot of what was  put forth during his address really has to do with the merits to use this opportunity not to argue about whether intervention was appropriate but to argue about what he considered to be appropriate or not appropriate for this special use permit use permit however what we're here before you on right now is the actual petition for intervention and the petition for intervention has particular standards that have to be met before intervention is to be allowed  one of the main things that needs to be pointed out is previously mr yano came forward at the last hearing and on behalf of the association presented its position similarly the association if it wanted to could have moved to intervene for all the homeowners saying we have this to present to you it did not do so so with regard to mr davis's petition for intervention we have to look at mr davis not  other members of the public not the association and can he be our voice the people who gave public testimony or very careful what they said they would start out saying i am presenting this on behalf of mr davis and i support him because he has a unique situation but when they spoke about what that was it always came down to still represent the rest of us we have noise concerns we have safety concerns we have traffic concerns but that is not the standard he is not here as a representative he has individually moved to intervene and in that regard he must meet the standards the jay center or abutting land owner and yes that is not some sort of absolute requirement however he is part of a neighborhood and he has not shown anything unique to his particular ownership of land in the area from the general public now the discussion of the term general public by mr davis is present in mr davis's presentation was that general public test to refer apparently everyone on the entire island or that you can say that anyone in a neighborhood has a right to intervene simply because they have that proximity or they are in that neighborhood or they would have perhaps some effect on them and it is is it different is that unique to this particular individual as opposed to everyone else who might have a concern if it were as mr davis presents then everyone in any neighborhood who wanted to intervene could intervene because i'm in that neighborhood and it might affect me or my land value or it might affect me because there will be increased noise in the neighborhood that's affects on the general public there has been no unique shelling of any particular quality or interest by mr davis that would give him a right to intervene and that's actually very very important that's the main part of the standard he doesn't have an interest in the land itself is a two part standard interest in the land or some interest that's different from the general public he doesn't have an interest in the land and he has an asserted that he also doesn't have an interest as general different from the general public he says the cars would go past well cars will go past every house on the levy and he is not a representative of everybody who lives on  application for or petition to intervene was submitted to the court it is submitted as a representative  there has been in the past and i'm bringing this up because it seems to have to do with the petition to intervene there has been statements in the past in the restatement here about this being a commercial interest about this being a business interests about this being sent things we don't want in the area and in the time between the last hearing and this particular herring i received some e mails that were sand where miss susan grubbs who testified in favor of the petition to intervene was asking someone on the neighborhood watch to post things about the hearing about trying to stop this particular matter and in response the person that she was sending the e mail to said it appears that this effort mentioned is solely directed at loma ridge however a word of caution there are a number of neighbors who do work from home i would caution that this does not create problems to others and her response was thank you i appreciate your in office in the home or home business is not the same as commercial business now the reason this is important is there's seems to be a general feeling of let's get in there and let's go after the loner ridge and attack this as a business but we don't mention the fact that there are other businesses that are going on the same thing mr davis can't say i have this unique special interest just because i have ownership in this general neighborhood and therefore i have a right to intervene and say it's unique and we're not going to look at all the other things that go on in the neighborhood the reason this will not the other part of the right to intervene the reason this will not expediter provide extra information and will affect the efficiency of the planning commission if that the planning commission has had hours and hours of public testimony all that information all of that position statement has already been presented there is going to be more time given today there is nothing that is going to contribute shelley by simply saying we're going to allow this person to come in and to bring in this same evidence except him doing it separately as a party and having the right to  additional questions or bring in some more information the same thing over and over he's not shown this commission he has anything else to contribute that goes beyond what is already been before the commission and what is being presented the commission and all this will do is to length and encumber the the commission process so as a result we don't believe that this is an appropriate petition for intervention  especially under the rules as they are written and with the position as it was presented to the commission thank you  mr davis is attorney has a chance to choose to problem that's no different than anybody else i have the way four houses away seven houses away however i guess if he had a noise problem on the property that it did the property in question but i it's the same as the house seven houses away is the same as a house two miles away no that's the general public i don't think mr wilson has offered anything to the to the commission here to show you that the general public in the language in your rules means the entire subdivision people live in a subdivision next to a property it's in the general public otherwise who it is said adjoining developed in that proceeding in the intervention proceeding and you will then be able to look at his conclusions his recommendations and use them will have details facts as opposed to someone who has three  testify about this and perhaps says the same thing as someone else i don't believe you have all the facts in front of you i think as i mentioned we will have an opportunity to develop important facts for you and then you can make an informed decision about mission is called back to order at this point we're going to have questions from the commissioners for both the vehicle representatives of both sides before that council wants to see a few words regarding the process to our commissioners you mr chair so commissioner i think at this point the chair is going to open up the floor for questions by the commission to counsel and what i want to remind folks of is that you have in front of you a copy of the rules regarding intervention now what they're trying to do is whatever the decision the commission makes regarding efficiency intervene at the end of the hearing one of the attorneys will be asked to prepare the order and order they prepare will be based upon the findings and the decision that you make if you think your rules the rules set out number of conditions skills then it would be appropriate to ask the parties to address those whatever concerns you may have so again just remind folks that you have in front of you the elements of addition to intervene stand or fall on its own merit inefficient probably implies to the number of intervenors in other words there are so many parties like for example at the that that's the case during for the thirty meter telescope there are over twenty parties at some mediation can resolve the issues then it would come back to the commission sooner rather than later if mediation does not result in resolution then the contested case proceeding would continue and the timing of that can my experience in court is that simple factual issues take some time to develop in an orderly process if you have a situation where you limits testimony of people to three minutes and many of those aren't skilled as witnesses they're community members and they're not expected of the they're not coming in with documents and showing documents the same is true incorrect attesting to documents you may not you will very rarely have recommendation to you and then you folks who decide whether to accept it or go along a different path so my point is is it's i feel i mean i wasn't here for the previous testimony i don't think it would be possible in this kind of factual situation for up you folks to have all the facts in front of you i think that could be fully developed in an intervention and i just want to lay your issue about i mean we have no intent to delay anything  if there's a deadline and i'm not sure there is one we will meet the deadline we will handle this expeditiously my client has no interest in delaying the determination by your group time with is i believe that's an additional information to the commission that we already know that we don't already have and i believe it will make  have the petitioner has been in front of this board a number of times even though the topic was enough he has i think he's a pretty intelligent guy i think he has the capacity to send us facts written which we have gotten before so for the intervention purposes i don't think i'm missing something here that intervention would illuminate for us thank you richard good afternoon commission members i'm just going to briefly outline the project for you we have a new commissioner i want to make sure that she has all the information that was available to everybody  so just to summarize we're dealing with two different permits here we have the state land use commission special permit and the conditional permit include weddings wedding receptions nonprofit receptions corporate receptions workshops  successor the applicant is requesting we're looking at four she's requesting up to four special events per calendar month times from eight a m to eight p m including the clean up she's requesting to have up to a hundred guests there on site parking limitations which we'll talk about i little bit and no amplified music and she states that they'll be a minimum of two loaner bridge representatives president each of them in addition to over sponsible person from the party as you know you deal with a lot of these state special permits because the property is ags owned you have the final approval of story on these types of permits because we're dealing with county property we're also dealing with the county conditional permit which has its own criteria the council is the final decision maker with that you make the recommendation t talking about why luke subdivision and i just wanted a chance just to run through the photos again just so you can see what we're talking about i know many of you were at the site so we have the entrance here with the gate and then it shows you the driveway that shows you where all the parking is this is from the site is if you can see the cars that were lined you have the prop the house itself the entrance the inside and then the next couple of shots are of the inside she's proposing to have the inside as well as outside the back area there's a cover and i area this is where we have the testimony that we took at the end of  the lawn space out front here's an overhead view you can see the neighborhood there and then from the property itself as you look down this is cool easy drive right there  ok so when we take a look at the permit criteria we use the information that's in the application then we send it out to specific agencies to provide us with more details relevant information in their areas of expertise and then we have the public process the public testimony so here in the report the staff report the different conditions the permit criteria for the state land use special permit i just want to make sure that as you go through your deliberation today that you to any of your concerns any of your conditions or anything that you comments that you make are tied to these specific criteria these are the only legal criteria that can be used in the valley within this project so the first one for the state special permit uses special events are not allowed but in the district they do allow them through the permit process but they give you these criteria so one of the major goals and objectives of two zero five is the promotion and preservation of agricultural land so in the application the applicant is stating that most of the property is used for agriculture it does have an implemented county farm plan and that the special circumstances how it meets the objectives is that the farm  almost thirty five thousand and twenty fourteen needs to be subsidized through other activities the production takes many years to produce is income and some of the research projects in the cultural activities will probably never produce any and now if you take a look at the agency comments the white department of agriculture stated that if it were not for the applicant it's unlikely that there would be any ag activity it's poorly suited with the steep terrain quality it's near residential development however even given this they had significant reservations that special events could become the primary use instead of just being the excess or use their concern that the events don't have any relationship to agriculture and they were concerned about the deferred agricultural operation that it could set a low bar for future applications the state office of planning i think mr nader went over those concerns as well as concerned about visitor oriented uses on ag land and how that could make it more difficult for farmers to obtain agricultural his own lands and use them for agriculture and then in public testimony again you know there's two sides to every issue there is support from the native nursery talking about the economic cultural educational value of what she's doing up there and then support from the whole i agree cultural research center position stated in testimony the applicant didn't purchase the property with the intention of doing agriculture so she doesn't meet promoting the goals and objectives of two of five forty eight events too many to be an accessory you supporting the farming now when you look at the specific the next criteria number two the desired use would not adversely affect surrounding properties we deal with this all the time and you folks see a lot of these permits you read this one the applicant states that the impacts will be minimal therefore there won't be any adverse effects surrounding the property and you can see what limitations that she is offering agency comments the state office of planning did express concern about traffic and noise and they did express concern again about the non agricultural uses that could make it more difficult to obtain land and that's a negative effect and then testimony came at three different neighbors from two properties citing that they can already hear noise so they will hear they will be negatively affected there was road safety that we heard traffic from gas and similar staff that would be servicing the weddings lower property values increase potential for crime the third one would not and recently burden public agencies to provide roads and streets you normally look to our agencies for that the police department the department of public works they did not provide any comments on this i did hear a little bit of testimony about concern with there's actual structure on the land in the other areas only about one point two five is used as a front lawn area so when we look at conditional permits the criteria is in your staff report pages five to seven like it is and every single one of the conditional permit has its own criteria not quite as clear the way they spell it out but it does state presently there that there needs to be reasons justifying reclast use cannot be significantly detrimental to the public interest very similar to negatively affecting surrounding properties and it needs to be in harmony in which the area is located and then the conditional permit can be subject to conditions and terms as you see fit in order for it to meet these criteria so when we take a look at the reasons justifying the granting of a conditional permit now the application states or property is unique because it does provide security and privacy unlike other properties available on maui and the proceeds of the events are needed to subsidize the farming activities again the white department of agriculture had some concerns about the primary use of the property about a deferred income type of agricultural use and then testimony we did hear that there are plenty of other weddings and use in my loop to take away business from those venues in terms of looking at public interest convenience and welfare  applicant again states that the u s is minimal therefore it will not be detrimental again we didn't have any agency comments that spoke to that with the exception of the state office of planning looking at traffic and noise and then neighbors again stating that that is detrimental traffic  them that you shall be in harmony in which the area is located so i did look up harmony wasn't in the legal dictionary but it's in the regular dictionary area in which it is to be located well we've already had a discussion about that  and as you know from sitting through august twenty third there was a lot about position testimony you saw the map that was up here submitted as testimony today there's one hundred seventy eight in opposition as shown on that map we've had almost  two hundred letters of protest and we had forty two neighbors testify in protest on august twenty third now on the flip side we had three hundred twenty six letters of support for this project twenty of them were neighbors we had five petitions of community support and then twenty seven people came out on august twenty third to testify for the project in support i did want to remind you special events is not new to you this we talk about mango season the seems to be the permit that we're seeing a lot of these days we've seen three in the past year and a half eighteen months dragon fruit farm is the first  court for ordinance to be written and then it goes to the county council and just a quick reminder this is what's been approved so far for dragon fruit farm you had to advance a month for up to fifty guests we did have support letters as well as protest letters and people neighbors did come out and protest for that who mail you recommended one of a week with up to two hundred there were a lot of support letters two hundred eleven modern neighbor support and no protest letters i think the two neighbors neighbors came to that for haiku mills for baldwin house which we just heard in june folks recommended one of them and a week with up to two hundred there were three neighbor letters of support one community support and a couple protest letters and then we did have two different neighbors that came up citing protests so just to make it easy i'm going to just tell you what our department recommendation is and then turn it over to our deputy director to explain a little further when you have testimony of this magnitude it's important that the department take a closer look after hearing everything we've talked about before how the stuff report comes out before all the public testimony comes in and then even the day of the hearing there was a lot of public testimony to take into consideration sort of director took all that into consideration there with the intent that you know he's trying to create harmony and meet these legal conditions the department recommending forty eight per event it's based upon the limited parking that's available on site for the applicant about twenty four cards i think could park easily at the site no shuttle service and  then the department is recommending that we limit the events to two per month so with that i'm going to turn it over to our deputy director to explain and then we'll let the applicant have a few words  early on when the application was just conducting form tours there didn't seem to be much concern with that and so his feeling was to reduce the scope down to one that was comparable when just formed tours were being given  and it's also based on his observation of what he believes could be a comedy down the site in terms of parking so he feels that twenty four cars can be well accommodated on the site and with two people per car that would be a maximum of forty  good afternoon thank you for going through all of this i just wanted to share with you some i'm sorry leon a roadshow wilson on a ridge i just want to share with you some of the history that i've been through with it to work with the neighbors and i have taken and i understand their concern i really do and so i've made every effort to address those concerns one of which is noise and  yes we just testified that there will be no amplified music at all but i needed to verify some of the statements made by neighbors about the concern of noise so i asked some respected science teacher to edgar nosa and had him up to the house and i said ed would you help me mitigate help me try to see how i can maybe reduce any sounds if there were any sounds that would be offensive to the neighbors and he came to the properties to liana the distance from the neighbors because where quite a distance away from the nearest neighbors our driveway is two hundred yards that he said the distance of the neighbors the time of the day where sound does make a difference and the trees that we have on the property that should be buffering the mitigate some of the noise i also questioned sound expert come on cause the electronics about noise and he confirmed that many issues such as distance location of noise shrubbery etc can mitigate sounds i was looking to see how i could mitigate some of the noises if they if in fact they were to address their concern one of the concern was and i asked my neighbor rebecca a model who testified last twenty third whenever it was i asked her if she would try to listen i did a test we had missed a college out there and do a test to see if rebecca could hear it and she said i have to go outside not in the house you can hear anything she had to go outside to the driveway and she said it did sound like a little sound of b s but nothing  which i thought was interesting because mr cavanaugh says that it would be just the sound of a small weedeater and he said motorcycles would disturb disturb the community much more than drones alcohol major concern and i appreciate that i wanted to know how other than use you know i was just looking around to see because this is new for me so i was looking to see how other venues address the consumption of alcohol i spoke with haiku males you probably remember her sylvia her and i asked her what her policy was with regard to alcohol and she said she hires a company called garnish inc and they provide license bartenders and the company is fully insured their license mar tenders are trained to handle gas consuming alcohol whom they suspect have had enough to drink and the department  of liquor control us also has specific rules on this i ben has some our wedding planners the bliss boys and melissa delia how other venues handle the serving of hard alcohol and she said they said they do not serve alcohol prior to the ceremony another thing that they don't do is they do not serve shooters so that being said loner ridge i will hire license water tenders in the event that hard alcohol is served traffic and parking all parking will be on site carpooling will always be requested and consideration of our neighbors and their concern for traffic and in the event that we do not have adequate parking for an event i know she mentioned those shuttling but i will just tell you what i did i went to the college and i spoke with hochelaga and asked him because what i'm looking to do is to have more local events there for local families and because we are so centrally located i i asked louis at the college could i use his parking lot so that i could our the local kids could park with the local people for the local events could park at the college and  shuttle to the owner range and he said of course by all means so i have that option for shuttling one other thing talked about big buses the neighbors have one or two of them have recent talked about large  well if you see my driveway you know that large wusses cannot make it up there we do not permit it what we do permit is smaller passenger vans which can accommodate the driveway fire prevention that was also mention and one of the concerns of the neighbors was fire safety i do call my county fire department and the public safety and requested an inspection inspector will arrived at loaner ridge was an associate and these were his comments with regard to the concern for fire from the neighbors since loaner it has a sprinkler system throughout the house every room has a sprinkler system and at that point he said if you have a sprinkler system in your home the department does not require a fire truck access and he said if needed though the fire department has a small truck which they can deploy so it was not an issue while he was there he also checked into the water controls just to see if we were in compliance and indeed we were will request yes list from the booking party two members of lone original be in attendance during the event we will also require someone from the booking party either a wedding planner or an assigned person to monitor their gas i hope that that does history and what i've experienced and what you've all listened to i hope that this will show that since starting this application i really really did try to listen to the neighbors and see if i could mitigate some of the issues i had meetings with previous boards which were agreeable to working with me jay higgins the former president of why look at heights association for the litter you all received it received a letter stating just that however when how davis became president things really went bad example i had eight hours of formal mediation with how and his board was no over so we have had mediation on things that i've been fined for having chickens on while chickens on my property and i got fined for it i had i got tours that were cancelled how knew i was going to have seniors come up to loan a rich for free she saying no there was so much that i had nothing to do with that they were going to stop at loner ridge do a tour and then go and have lunch and i was going to work with them to give them this tour someone called and cancel cano county or cancel their trip subsequent to that about ten of the other ladies called me and said can i come up anyway and i did have them there  that is not applicable to the commission it's my concern and certainly it's my hope i should say this that that you recognize that i have made every effort and will continue to make every effort to listening to my neighbors i was born and raised here i intend to be a good neighbor thank you ok i'm an opener for public testimony anyone wish to testify on this agenda item to come forward its construction project at the time up at that location and what i want to do is impress upon you the quietness of the area on week nights or weekends in the year yes in the ampitheater math as an activity we can hear it in the daytime when the ambient background noise is higher than at night of course we can hear the jets taking off from the airport and that's five or six miles away going to be ground zero in my terms as opposed to the distance on the map which you can see so i created this other graphic that shows the distances involved this is just a whole the point that noise is an issue we're not talking about drones always will be an issue and if you grant this project the special permit that it is seeking you're going to turn this very quiet upscale residential subdivision that my father and my aunt developed into a three ring circus thank you who should come to chile and you have a question ridge and the line for conservation is actually of that same issue where i live which is ample only drive my back yard is a decent two and ironwood forest but part of that is privately owned by a company on the mainland we found and that was the way we found out is one of our do neighbors started raising entire forest behind his life illegally n that was our impression as well because that's where the forest l else in the audience to not make this into a three ring circus and scream you know thank you serino i live at five three to cool the easy drive and i just like to say that i strongly oppose this project and i agree with all the comments from all the testifiers who've come before me and i just wanted to call your attention again to traffic matters alcohol safety noise it's like if you're out in the alps and some me yodels you know kerry i don't care what anybody says it carries in our neighborhood i can hear the  jaggery i can hear planes take off i can hear the man i can hear functions that chuckle fantasia and that's ok i mean they're far enough away in addition to that i just want to remind all of you that we have kids veterans seniors anybody plenty parky also baby house museum while he tropical plantation the golf course offers all of the same better the only benefit i think that her property gives anybody outside of herself is the view i hope that you guys will be really thoughtful all of our concerns which you show on the map there of the owners who live in in this area unfortunately you know we're all trying to be politically correct and i just want to see how upset and angry i am that one person can take the president of all of the whole community  is just incredible to me i can't believe that even here thank you area where i expected to live in a comfortable manner wouldn't want to be extended the same respect as a our pockets because the property values will be decreased and we will be subjected to the tyranny of government and i ask you to just  probably shouldn't be speaking right now because i'm so angry the image that mrs wilson betrayed your name susan grubbs first off about the noise of a copy of a letter to stop the noise to the neighborhood with pyrotechnics second her chickens wild chickens i believe there was an article in the newspaper where she says that she did rescue chickens from them are you maine society and one of the articles in the honolulu star advertiser includes pictures of the chickens which were for effect they're hurt they were there not wild chickens mrs wilson so concerned about her neighbors stood up in front of a homeowner association and your meeting in two thousand and sixteen and stated that she would file suit against the homeowners association she goes away and cost the owners hundreds of thousand dollars in legal fees make it to the facts regarding the them of the county government price is going to put you folks in this position and there are conditions that you can impose on the application for that special news i meant and i know i personally know it was not the person that they're trying to portray me in this forum and that's unfortunate so i would like to again i trust in the process i take emotion to override our rational decision making thank you very much high the thing is that i really do support how davis and his efforts of what he's been doing i've been attending the meetings the annual meetings that have gone on with my local heights to the only time it was really over full with the residents over there was the time that mrs wilson came in and was telling us about her idea of turning into a commercial venue into her home i recall and i brought it with me i kept this newspaper article from the mommy news the owner wilson is quoted as saying the cost of running it is meaning her land ok well does that mean we the rest of the residents who live over there are going to have to pay for her costs so that she can go on what about our own piece of property you know we are all going to be affected by things that are going on in this very quiet neighborhood it is true that oftentimes in the quiet of the night i can hear the drag race is going on my sister is a drug racer and she asks who is complaining about our drag racing the noise going up to our place well ok i can hear it i can hear a lot of events going on at the mac so i feel like i don't have to go down there to even pay you know a ticket the other thing is she says that she grows many native hawaiian plants in my efforts to live up there i have a huge property also and i've been trying to be a good i guess trying to keep the i know as good as i cut them down as requested by our association and i also don't charge anybody to come to my house ok to see them anybody can come up to my house and they can put in power because we want to keep molly as molly we don't want to have the big city mentality and i say to you my plea is that you keep by luko why ducal i have a april of this year and i can personally tell you how much trauma it is causing in our neighborhood and to understand some of that maybe we can look back at how we got to this point you know what you heights about how it's supposed to be a community of good neighbors a nice tranquil environment and the homeowners were able to live this lifestyle for many years and then two thousand  time the african wrote to the association said you know we just want to be good neighbors we're quite people we just want to build our house and a small house for our staff but what happened to the community is that for four of construction clearing off that mountainside thousands of trucks going up and construction noise vibrations and then for four years of that imagine having to live with that and then just when it seems that the neighborhood is going to be quiet again the applicant just announced that she would like to turn this place into a tourist and i can personally attest examples of what's been happening in our neighborhood as you've heard homeowners meet at the last three homeowners meetings the dominant topic has been rage i think that become homeowners beings you guys must have my question is you talked of four years of trucks going up and down and up and down up and down in those four years of trucks going up and down and up and down are stooge i'll answer it this way first of all as i said lawyers are going to get rich because i think in order to determine that there is a legal question what in fact it has because the other thing need i think you need to look at is ok you have this business the only way to get to that business is to this property and even if you agree that that's the only piece of land that is subject to the c c and r s you cannot have a commercial venture think the position of what is right and fair for my neighbors i've heard a lot of stuff at the last meeting and this one i've watched  the mission turn a blind eye and a deaf ear to the hawaii office of planning and i believe that really says it all that letter from them is very very very damning to mrs wilson's calls elephant they want to go i lost money look at my tax return i've lost thirty four thousand nine hundred six dollars in two thousand and fourteen so we can't make a go of it as a tree commission i did some research mr donny among the two thousand and twelve got her boyfriend on in two thousand and fourteen got her nephew on in two thousand and fifteen that's what it's all about that's really the bottom line i'm going to give a chance hell i have a question regarding your comment you made this is a letter to your house or my office and i'm commissioners have a copy of eighty percent of the people that neighborhood you want to disrupt for one person  kind and that was sunday so i don't know what she was doing she was having some good people she was there's probably about four people on that here is voice and i'm four houses down from her house and i thought my neighbor was talking so and it was just her talking so for the most she's talking about you know it's not going to bother us yes it's going to bother to try them you said everything so that's all i'm saying a residential community you know all these other ones that were on there access is not through residential communities it's all through commercial districts fifteen percent slope you know i know you were talking about that you know what i'm sure if we look at the guys up and  at night i'm sure we'd have a lot more accidents you know but if it was during the day people are you know people know that they have to be careful not neighborhood but if you do weddings and such like that you know people are going to take some liberties and and i think it's going to be a lot dangerous i don't think i don't i don't know if you have an argument with that but i think i meet any parties that you have like that in a neighborhood with fifteen percent slope with drinking involved i think we're going to have  reservations let me let me put that that's code word for proceed at your own  what repercussions does that family have will they be suing the county and will they have grounds to say hey why do we even have a special use permit granted to this person and that the deepest pockets are going to be the county and who's you know that's go i think that's a silly question but i'll answer it no and and i'm not talking about prohibition i'll say when i answer the question properly excuse me i think it is because i want all my own property i'm sorry what i can get as drunk as that was absolutely but let me answer your question let me finish answering the question yes there's no prohibition of alcohol but i'm just talking about for the special use now if you folks to grant me a special use permit you know i'll start having parties for profit on my property as well and you know what everybody you know distinct difference between parties at your house superbowl party or any parties for profit where i'm going to say you know i'm going to a wedding or i'm going to have a corporate event all weddings in my mind are the worst how many how many fathers of the bride you see slurring on the ice but i think that's what that's the distinction i want to make you know resident normal residential of course you can drink your own house i'm not go good afternoon i'm helen macarthur i have been a homeowner in residence in my local house for the last eighteen years we have owned property in my local heights prior to our return for homeowners are on trial and you guys are making these decisions where the taxpayers who are the guys who hire the mayors and you know and all of us and i'm thinking why don't we you know in a defensive mode  so many of our neighbors are totally in opposition to this proposal i only own we sold her property and i actually was not going to get up here and testify against her but i have before we even proceed i have one question from a procedural standpoint at the last meeting mr he dannie i thought we cues to serve from the proceedings because he was president of the we're not putting anyone here on trial and i think it's pretty disgusting to me that i had to keep order trying this hard to keep order all occasions so conduct a lot of the i only want to say one thing and i said a long time and when i asked her why she was selling why layer property she's in this is her response and she can correct me if our theor she said because she was living in wylie was people who were coming and going and part time residents and she wanted to live in a real need for well she has caused so much concern in our neighborhood that it's not the neighborhood it was before she moved in so that's all i want to s point again my name is gary long i spoke at the previous meeting i guess i needed to clarify some things as far as maybe drones now if i wanted to get pictures of someone who was very important i would probably not you're launching from the top of who may be that would be the launch best launch point although you might be able to do it from here if you're a skilled operator but anyway that's one point i do want to clarify the next thing about fires and that concern about the fire in the house per se my concern was the fire around the ridge itself in other words if the reach has only one entrance or exit becomes a death trap for people trying to exit it's good that they're considering limiting it to forty eight people without sort of buses you mentioned we had a hundred people showed up there and there was a need to evacuate one on site and maybe one from the party itself three people are going to try and direct fifty to one hundred people to you vet possibly in the dark what would they do with you just run themselves i we're doing that now we're looking at twelve to one twenty five mr hudson do you have any any disclosure to make regarding any financial interest you may have in the application i think i think each or as i mentioned in a previous meeting i said that i am related to the applicant i'm or have second homes and i have no financial interest in her and i don't believe she has any financial loose screws in me i will be voting i will not re so based upon the merits of the case and after reviewing the art in this part of reviews for the planning department as directed by the ethics commission three times thank you commission the owner will send i asked for one hundred four times i'm i'm more than happy to abide by what you tell us again i'll go back to the fact that i'm trying to work with the local community and the reason i selected one hundred so many of the families of the local families if you have thirty or forty in immediate family it would take me up to seventy five just for immediate families and when i don't really want to specialize in a smaller group yet it becomes destination wedding and i'm trying to stay away from that so my desire would be to have seventy five compromising to one hundred seventy five i think that would work for me if it would work for you and i would the frequency if if we could do it perhaps instead of per month because events are so clustered if you will that maybe if i could get three events or was it thirty four or so a year can we just do it that way instead of you know for a month or whatever so i really if if i want to accomplish my goal which is with the three times twelve is thirty six thirty six a year just do thirty six and thirty four year and just let me work it through that recall your in the testimony a lady that your event planner remember her name she said that your actual vision for this at one point in time was to do weddings only and the receptions were someplace else  certainly wine and beer it would it would be and champagne would be suitable for i think the events and if i were to restrict myself from that it might i don't know that that  would work for what you know the event that i'm looking for it's a celebration and i mean and you know a lot of people if you really look at it there are there are a lot of people that don't even drink thinking i'm driving at night you know the neighborhood i had an idea of like what if there's no driving up there there's it's all shuttle period that's it there's nobody driving out there organise our serve alcohol then it's nothing but settle in settle out we don't have to worry about drinking and driving to the neighborhood i don't have an answer for this one i maybe we can do it this way if it's if it's if it's  me i think at the last meeting we talked about you hosting a meeting for the association i don't know if that would be a good idea with the tenor of the neighborhood but i think that it might be a nice gesture  more so than anybody else edges so that it will mitigate the sound we did discuss it as to how to what to expect and certainly act with more native trees you know closer to that edge and haven't grow up you know somebody's in well then you trust what they're for you know usually you know by side with them but the owner after listening today i don't get the feel that you really are listening to your or i know you're very you're a winner you are in life you've won you've done that sometimes us winners we don't listen sometimes us winners are so used to winning that nothing in front of us stops us and we conquer every conflict in front of us and i think that might be what's happening now when i walk in today and i've been through the testimony and i saw that month i was at my house and my leaves little four houses down and mean my kids got out and we hand picked the leaves for houses down because that's how much a lot how we have our neighbors within a whole lives now four houses  that's that's harmony that's neighbors caring about each other and having a difficult time for the staff recommended fifty people ereka mended to events neighborhood where you live i don't i'm not i wouldn't want to drive up the street and have to look straight ahead another came in a present because then given the stink eye for the rest of my life you know you guys have been through meaning you guys have been through mediation and yes testimony from your neighbors have been off putting to see the lease yes the hyper boil in this issue has been overwhelming from the bunch of two people instead of you know you already lost money on your farm why would you want to lose more to the lawyers because the because the prevailing party is not going to win the that the lawyers fees events are both going to lose and for you trying to gain thirty thousand dollars to help the tories which is fantastic you're going to be in that fifty thousand dollars i think or at least that's what i think which kind of finding ways to make this somehow this crazy  can i address it my concern for the neighbors if i give you just one example we had the up or down children you know who are the first to go to college and there are thirty of them there and  when they were outside after a certain period was like a little after six o'clock i'm not sure i hadn't come into the house because i was concerned for my neighbors had been in the house and closed the doors so i am concerned why am i doing it i can tell you one because it was my husband's dream to be there and to be with family and move from why they are as one of the as  helen just said i moved in while later not because i wanted to be necessarily in a residential area i wanted to be close to family i wanted to be near where my my brothers and my sisters are and this gave me the opportunity to do that so yes i suspect first of all let me let me add this to when j higgins was president of the association we had many meetings and if you read his letter he was agreeable to  he understood what was happening what is happening now is we have a core of people that have as hello jane here and said it's personal it's really personal there are some issues with some people that is personal a cars the trucks going up for years i can understand how how difficult that was but we didn't work on saturdays and we were through  three o'clock i was concerned for my neighbors and it cost us because we didn't work on saturdays so i am i am concerned about many of this and i live here this is my home and yeah am i going to go through and people are still not going to like me  you know what i will my goal my goal is to have the best life i can possibly have where i am bring my children up there all the kids to come up to my seniors and my veterans and i will work with unable to get their commission or others and leon you just you just told me that g agreed to two times a month and today oh i'm starting to cry right now this is where we're trying to resolve this you know i can see this commission doesn't want to have another loan a rich meeting a guarantee or what i'm trying to say is on a we're looking at you ok we have we have the we have the county given and other stuff you know you already had sort of filling giuliana you have to if you don't agree with that and that's where the votes going to be in the in the in a judge hands so i'm looking at using see if you can live with some of these conditions longer and then you know i think it can start healing in your neighborhood and you know what you care everybody cares nobody wants to be just like  very close to working it out and the time frame was close to working it out and then jay had a problem with how and at that point he resigned and how then became our board and that's where that's why jay left the picture at that point and why he is listen and we now understand because we are the commission and we decide what she's going to do but we also like to work with applicants and in agreement so that way they would follow the rules and agree to the rules ahead of time and usually that's so i mean are they to carpool more often than not their car for transportation is so expensive for children today you know to hire a professional bus so they end up carpooling to come up large bus that came up years ago and that was children school children that cannot come up the driveway so all the kids got out of the bus and it was one of the child that was  we were recommending approval based upon twenty two conditions i mentioned the changes to the conditions earlier i can go through the twenty two you have them in front of you  conditions are you comfortable with them and let me go through the twenty two just the three modifications the department is recommending approval to twenty two conditions we have changed from what you have in writing that came to   as shown in the slides for condition twelve where we are allowing shuttle service we are no longer recommending that shuttle service be provided for recommending forty eight yes a condition sixteen were recommending that the events be limited to forty eight yes so in consideration of the foregoing the department recommends the commission adopts the department's report recommendation prepared for the august twenty third meeting with the changes made today at the after twenty fifth meeting as your findings of fact conclusions of law decision in order and authorize the director of planning to transmit said recommendations for the conditional permit to the i second the motion i do feel that the panic the panic commission's reduction to twenty four and forty eight is a good start i could i could probably support twelve events in a calendar year and i would allow her to have sixty participants i think  think with the i think the forty it's a good number i do think that trying to preserve and trying to keep that going but we need some safety and i think forty people might a month be events per year because i mean i don't think people are going to have weddings when it's windy in january february i think in the in the summertime or the or the far you know they might back him up and then they might have nine months of  my experience of your neighbors has been not exactly great as yours has probably been not exactly you know what i've witnessed in your neighbors isn't the good side of them i'm sure they have a good side too but i haven't with the good side of them here in this particular venue so moving forward hopefully no matter how this turns out i can be mended and they can see the good part in you and you can see the good part in them and we can all show that to each  other so without you know the conditions that i threw out there i'm going to have to support the motion to deny unless somebody wants to say that all those things that i threw out there believe in the merit of the application and believe what she's doing is good for the community overall general community however if there's more work there needs to be some sort of mending within them my in laws lived on for thirty six hours so i know what it's like to live there and wanted to high and experience hard at there's no doubt absolutely no doubt about it i will render my decision in a second but i do want to express my appreciation for this having been able to listen to both sides intent of this is a big deal our site concerns of the boston area ludicrous considering that this is the residence of the applicant the very idea of the battery deserves zero consideration concerns of games are unfounded and without substance  first time again appeared in that neighborhood it would be met with numerous calls to nine one one the strength of this community prevents games from gaining not pull much less a presence the simple reality is that these type of not necessarily track gangs in terms of drugs applicants to the property will be informed that illegal drug use of any kind will not be tolerated and result in immediate removal from a property this responsibility rests with the on site monitors this is more than what occurs in many private residences that do not have such events jewels and helicopters are prohibited she cannot control paparazzi but she can control her own people b attendees will be monitored based on the time when they must leave and the close observation they will be under duis become unlikely but not impossible just as they are with any other residence the owner is very aware of the ramifications of over service and three people martine is way more than any other party the biggest concern is the makeup of the neighborhood and that's what we've heard all day long make about enable it really shouldn't change it much and these will go directly to the place and leave directly from the place there's no signage leading to the event there will be little or no impact to the neighborhood it is my opinion that the applicant has properly addressed the concerns of the neighborhood in that any impact would be insignificant the last thing i would add is that should one day it become approved consideration should be given to come ins for financial consideration you notice it that is the only that waits in my mind i believe that the applicant is open to the recommendations of the department i think she's opened recommendations from the commission for controlling the to retain residence allows her to continue what i heard as inspiration to the young appreciation from the whole and of their homes is going down they cannot sell their property for as much as they want to get their property and it was from my perspective a concentration on vote for putting our future first as opposed to real estate speculation realistic speculation in my mind is what's step about rape and murder because it steals from our future our children's future for home in maui and it kills the dreams of another generation  that's what we started off with people that are complaining today that they cannot sell their houses for a million two hundred thousand dollars are complaining that they cannot get more value out of the land and that just makes unfortunate thing to be tried and i think after us they're both going to spend a lot of money unfortunately i believe what happens commissioner is for a one hundred yuri of the way through to december it becomes the plan department's recommendation that is that it's not true that is true at the recommendation rate the final recommendation every person has a unique value and whether we see the best of them in a certain day or the worst of them you know it's yeah you know we have three hundred on one side and two hundred on the other we ha three to two and only five it's still it's still somebody's speaking and i said even though there are putting even though they might of trying to think of of ways to convince know and a commissioned officer said you know it's i was just trying to make it work i don't think it's that safe i think the timing in of trying to use only bands we have and and fifty is not going to give her enough enough monetary money to them enough monetary profit to i think it proper security and proper things for people if i could if the commission is inclined to entertain a motion to approve i would suggest that just a general motion to be made and then the commission could make amendments to that motion to modify conditions or to add conditions as you discussed so rather than try to encapsulate all of that in one motion containing everything to have a motion to prove  second motion is ok with that everybody is ok i do not support the motion as it is and do i listen to further things that we throw in as the recommendation to  bullshit but is that how it's going to work and then and then as and then i'll just wait until if you feel comfortable enough to members to make me feel like i want to support it well what do we take a vote and then if we don't support then we come back and then we try to mend conditions each amendment would be discussed and ordered on separately or they could be packaged as a group of amendments is that how you want to proceed but you know because motion subsidiary motion that would have to be determined first before you vote and that's what you had in mind and also same time and this is open for discussion among the commissioners what they wanted to commission roberson i was comfortable with six for two reasons first reason was the amount of parking and i thought six people there we all know that they're not going to get a violation for n pro bono events considered part of this or is this is just a want to thank you for clarifying that so so the taking the tour that's more than forty is that can be considered one of these events architectural tours are history tours would but anything that's ok under two or five that include the farm too are you not counted that so what we're talking about is she could open up her populates i could for my backyard and allow people to get married there for free that would still be considered one of these it's a usual distinction that we do have to be is that if it's a function of her living on the property if it's her family her friends so we see commercial event because it's not with the wedding planner and it's not a commercial event i mean i guess you know we love the fact that she might have the ability to share with families and cousins to have a wedding up there you know of my numbers is also part of safety there's parking and their safety and i think seventy five too large a number with only three people there i mean been classes don't have twenty five to one ratio i think if you're going to have a if you don't have a venue that size you need to pay a little more staff and i was comfortable with sixty a kind of jump to sixty five just tried to you know try to get closer to the other side too bad this is about what's going to be best for the community and the applicant now what's best for the applicant is just like we had a person here early on is trying to get a short term vacation rental and he want to have amplified sound in the commercial says if you want to bump a face out into that i don't care if it we're not and we this person came four times until he finally said you know what i live without amplified sound it has to work for everybody and if it doesn't work for the applicant then and how i feel is it's not safe and i think if you're start talking about how many total events you can have a year having twenty four there's a lot of there's a lot of room to play with that i don't think you have to be twenty i'm sitting here feeling very well aware that if we don't come to a consensus on something this is probably ultimately this going to end up to the department's recommendation which is not something that i personally want and i do remember my father telling me don't let paid events for calendar year and sixty five any discussion commissioner robinson one a comment that there can be three hundred and sixty five pence but there can only be so many of them there can be three hundred sixty five days of community is still impacted the safety and security is still impacted so i mean what we're asking here is is is a commercial compared to a ban on you can have anybody up at your yard and yes anything else i would like to make an amendment it says only champagne i apologize of alcohol content of wine is stronger than a light beer and again i think a ban on hards altogether i think that's something i deftly support on thinking you'd have point on things you may create enforcement problem commissioner hudson person is for counsel since you are in the liquor commission you would be familiar with the t mean so i guess maybe my question is if you're talking about there's a type of license right it's a beer and wine license so i said ok whatever is permissible under the beer and wine license is that general enough  whine so i would like to withdraw my amendment and i would like to make a new amendment that says here in wyoming  discussion on this amendment roberson i think the intent is there is that we eliminate even the slightest chance that somebody would be driving down that hill intoxicated i mean that we have professional bartenders and they serve me sometimes when i am a good actor i guess but i think that eliminates that safety problem and i think the styles i think they're going to be used for caterers i think they're going to be used for people i'm supporting the venue clean the bartender bring in their tables and i understand maybe or maybe an inconvenience but i think i think the community's going to like it i think when we end up with this and try to keep this out of the court system i think the community to look at everything in the  so they're looking at the safety when there's alcohol or people are allowed to drive a new neighborhood they're going to be dropped off somewhere else that's a safety issue so we eliminate that whole that whole argument and that's where my that's for my thoughts are coming from in any discussion on this amendment go back just real quick to the can't open flame council discussed about chinese lanterns that would be included in the prohibition would like to have an amendment that all gas are made part of a registry that there is a registered gas left is because there was some of the testimony was people worried about testimony we want to make sure we put in the in the contract drones and helicopters fly overs not allowed by their guests like i said before we cannot control the general population when it comes to that but we can control the  we have something the commission wants and how you plan to have the african police that they have monitors or they are responsible for the property they are ultimately responsible for the property if they see drug use they that commissioners the motion is to approve the state and your commission special permit to recommend approval to the council of the conditional permit subject to the conditions of the recommendation with the following amendments at the application plan we have a perforated around the periphery to mitigate the ways that events be limited to fifteen paid events per year with a maximum of sixty five people that the alcohol served at the event here and wine only that the license staff  so any more discussion of the motion including all the