we will now recognize our second panel i will introduce them as a whole then we will take the oath and begin the questioning let me welcome you and thank you for not only being here but also for letting the children go  first and perhaps go back to school or maybe not mister kevin chavous is the chairman of the black alliance for education options mister chavous is also a former d c city council member and a former chairman of the education committee doctor patrick wolf is a professor and st century chair in school choice department of education reform at the university of arkansas doctor wolf was the principle investigator for impact evaluation of the d c opportunity scholarship program through a contract with the united states department of education ms betty north is the principal and ceo of the preparatory school of the district of columbia doctor ramona edelin is the executive director of the d c association of public charter schools  welcome to you all and i will administer the oath i would ask you to please rise and raise your right hand to ask questions we really would rather hear from you so we will start with you mister chavous and we will go in order from my left to right thank you mister chavous thank you very much mister chairman and ranking member davis and congresswoman norton members of the committee thank you for giving me the opportunity to testify before you today with your indulgence i would like to use my time this morning to offer some perspective about the importance of the d c opportunity scholarship program not just for district residents but also as it relates to the national fight to ensure that each and every american school child receive a high quality education as you mentioned mister chairman i served on the council of the district of columbia for twelve years and over half of that time i chaired the council's education committee i am proud of the fact that during my chairmanship i was able to help usher school choice into the district first by way of charter schools and then through the opportunity scholarship program as to the creation of the opportunity scholarship program let me be very clear mister chairman this program was not forced upon or foisted on the residents of the district of columbia i know i was there the three sector  initiative was a collaborative undertaking between the city and the federal government we insisted on the three sector approach which provided equal funding for d c public schools d c public charter schools and the osp we worked very hard and when i say anyone who suggests otherwise is being fundamentally and practically dishonest about the history and origin of the osp today the students who testified have spoken directly about the positive impact of the osp on their lives for them and thousands of other district children the osp has been a lifeline for not just them but for their families without this program as ron holassie said they wouldn't have made it it is just that simple the d c opportunity scholarship program sends a clear message to families to children and to our community if you are low income if you are stuck in a school that is failing that is unsafe and that no amount of money can fix right away we are not going to make an experiment of you we are going to help you and we are going to do  it not five years from today but today we are going to give you a chance at success and the essence of the program is in its name opportunity scholarships along the lowest income d c children to attend better schools private schools that are mere blocks away from the public schools that long ago stopped serving their needs the program is open to everyone there is no discrimination there is no cherry picking and the results are stunning graduation rates are ninety one percent for those who use the scholarships that is forty two percent higher than traditional public schools improved reading scores for students parental satisfaction is overwhelming and the u s department of education as you will hear from patrick wolf said that the program was one of the most effective programs they have ever studied by any measure by any test by any rational standard this hearing should be about how we can expand this program not in washington d c but in other parts of the nation instead by a cruel twist of political fate we are here trying to save the very program that should be a model for our country which leads me to the final point i need to make during this testimony the importance of the osp in the larger national educational reform landscape since leaving the council i have been deeply immersed in the national education reform movement indeed i have become a student of what ails our schools and what or what does not work for our kids the truth is we know how to educate children we know what works for them but often we don't have the will or courage to truly put our children first when we make policy that affects them plus our over allegiance to a one size fits all approach to system reform has blinded us to the reality of many of today's kids lives yes we need to fix d c public schools and many other school districts around the country but we also need to save individual children today children who can't wait for the three to five year reform plan du jour during the civil rights movement doctor martin luther king talked about the f urgency of now people should not have to wait to get their freedom he argued they are entitled to those freedoms now not in the distant future today we are engaged in a similar freedom fight one involving ensuring that all american children receive the education that they deserve like doctor king's battle cry our children are entitled to receive a quality education today not tomorrow the d c opportunity scholarship program has responded to that clarion call by offering quality education to children in this city who otherwise would be trapped in failing schools i applaud those of you on this committee who support its reauthorization and urge all of you to join us in this fight to educate each and every child by any means judgment regarding what we know about the d c opportunity scholarship program or osp i served as the principle investigator of the research team hired by the u s department of education to conduct an independent evaluation of  lotteries determine if eligible students did or did not receive an opportunity scholarship we were able to use a gold standard experimental research design to determine what impact the osp had on participants what did we find the students in our study graduated from high school at significantly higher rates as a result of the osp as portrayed in exhibit one using an opportunity scholarship increased the likelihood of a student graduating by twenty one percentage points from seventy percent to ninety one percent in scientific terms we are more than ninety nine percent confident that access to school choice through the opportunity scholarship program was the reason why osp students graduated at these much higher rates students who applied to the program from public schools that had been labeled in need of improvement were the highest service priority of the  graduated at a rate that was twenty percentage points higher as a result of using a scholarship evidence that students achieved higher test scores due to the osp is somewhat less conclusive than the evidence that they graduated at higher rates our analysis of test score data across all years of the study suggests that osp students likely benefitted academically from the program in reading but probably not in math the statistical probability that the osp reading gains we observed were somehow false discoveries of mere statistical noise was nine percent after two years one percent after three years and six percent after four years we had set five percent uncertainty or ninety five percent confidence as the critical level for judging an observed difference to be a conclusive impact of the program the reading gains from the osp exceeded that high bar in year three of the study but failed just short by one percentage point in the final year when hundreds of students had graduated out of the study and therefore shrunk our sample skeptics might claim that the positive impacts of the opportunity scholarship program on reading achievement in the final analysis are not real but there is only a six percent chance that we would have observed such test score gains for the osp students if in fact the program had no effect parents were more satisfied with their child's school as a result of the osp the proportion of parents who assigned a high grade of a or b to their child's school was ten percentage points higher based on scholarship use by their child we can be ninety nine percent confident this was a true impact of the program parents also viewed their children as safer in school if they participated in the osp the u s department of education's national center for education evaluation or ncee has sponsored a total of fourteen experimental studies of education programs including our study of the osp nine of the other thirteen evaluations of such interventions as student mentoring reading programs and teacher training reported no statistically significant impacts of the program on any student outcome in any year another student of an after school initiative found that the program had negative effects on student reaching achievement that balanced out positive effects on math the clear positive impact of the osp on high school graduation makes it one of only four educational programs to demonstrate effectiveness in an experiment sponsored by the  it generated the second largest positive impact uncovered to date moreover the d c opportunity scholarship program has proven effective at boosting the outcome that matters most educational attainment president obama in a speech to the u s chamber of commerce one year ago today stated emphatically that graduating from high school is an economic imperative both the president and secretary duncan have stressed the importance of raising the graduation rate because graduating from high school is closely associated with a variety of positive personal and social outcomes including higher lifetime earnings and lower rates of unemployment and crime since each additional high school graduate saves the nation an average of two hundred and sixty thousand dollars due to increased taxes on higher earnings and lower law enforcement costs the four hundred and forty nine additional high school graduates due to the operation of the o save our nation over one hundred and sixteen dollars million meaning the program more than pays for itself the research record on the first federally sponsored k twelve scholarship program is filled with good news the students definitely are graduating at much higher rates they appear to be reading better parents are more satisfied and live in less fear for their child's safety now it is up to congress and the president to decide if additional disadvantaged families in our nation's capital should distinguished members of the committee my name is betty fenwick north and i am the founder of preparatory school of the district of columbia the preparatory school of the district of columbia is a licensed non profit private educational institute we our mission is to give our students the academic foundation that would allow them to be successful in life in a safe caring and structured environment that utilized the small classroom learning we  provide the intimate attention that a lot of today's youth require in order to reach the educational aptitude necessary for success our wonderful staff is able to adopt to each student's unique cognitive learning style while placing emphasis on analyzing reading language articulation and writing in addition to the academics it is the aim of the preparatory school of d c to assist the character building developing the ability to preserve integrity and respect for themselves and their community the preparatory school of d c is a family first school we strive to instill good family values in each of our students a majority of our students come from institute if it were not for the opportunity scholarship the opportunity scholarship program has made it possible for many low income families to have more options to achieve and acquire  education over one hundred and fifty students have been able to attend the preparatory school of d c solely because of the opportunity scholarship program an opportunity that has provided a sound and enriching educational experience students who attend the preparatory school of d c range from those taking ap courses to those students who have been diagnosed with learning disabilit well as those who have been documented disciplinary problems that have involved the courts and as many parents if they were able to testify would all tell you as they have constantly told us and we have heard from them if it were not for the opportunity scholarship program many of these students would not have been able to experience and discovery that they are not just a statistic they are individuals w provide these parents and their families the better choices they can make for their situations and the better choices they make the better their chances of success in closing i would like to say that i believe the opportunity scholarship has opened doors for parents to have choices for their children's education has empowered parents with the necessary financial sources to become more involved and influential in their  children's education and the opportunity scholarship has provided students and exposed the experience and the academic culture that private religious secular schools offer at the end of the day parents of youth who come from financially stable families have choices in which schools they would like to attend why can't parents of youth who come from low income homes also have the ranking member davis congresswoman norton other members of the committee i am ramona edelin executive director of the d c association of chartered public schools the membership organization that represents the interest of public charter schools in d c i am honored to come before you today to share the progress and the promise of public charter schools in washington d c you may be well aware that the u s congress helped to create the environment for charter schools in d c with the passage of the school reform act of one thousand nine hundred and ninety five the number of students enrolled in d c charter schools has grown steadily from a few hundred students in  six to one of the largest concentrations in any city in the country currently our charter schools serve about twenty eight thousand students which comprises thirty eight percent of all of the public school children and this number is expected to increase in the fall d c charter schools serve students of all ages and abilities from three years old to adult learners during the  school year eighty seven percent of charter school students were african american nine percent were latino three percent were caucasian sixty five percent were low income ten percent were special needs students and three percent were english language learners families in washington d c have the choice to choose from fifty two unique programs at ninety three locations throughout the city offerings include school programs focusing on bilingual emersion math science and technology the performing arts public policy character and leaders latin and the classics virtual and online learning media arts montessori college prep and a boarding program among many other options every charter school offers open enrollment to any d c resident regardless of their neighborhood or previous academic achievement spaces are available on a first come first served basis and when there are more students interested in a school than there are spaces available charter schools must hold a lottery so that every student has an equal opportunity for those spaces the d c public charter school board the city's independent charter authorizer recently accepted nineteen applications to open new charter schools for fall of and twelve although parent interest and demand remain high the growth in charter school opportunities may have begun to plateau there are fewer waiting lists now than there were in years past however several of our schools still have hundreds of students on their waiting lists charter school performance and accountability from the beginning was clear that the greater autonomy afforded charter schools came with a price of greater accountability for performance we see the evidence of what these charter school options have meant the students that would otherwise be restricted to their neighborhood schools we have seen students com from one two or three grade levels behind in one school year we have seen students excel far beyond their grade level and take part in experiences they never imagined possible we have heard testimony from young african american and latino male students who have said they would not be alive much less graduating from high school and going on to college with tens of thousands of dollars in scholarships every we witness at least ninety percent of the seniors at thurgood marshall academy in southeast washington math science and technology friendship collegiate and cesar chavez in northeast and m angelou and hospitality in northwest graduate from high school last year more than seven hundred and fifty students accepted more than fifteen dollars million in college scholarships many of them were the first in their families to go to college and many took with them more than one hundred thousand dollars these are statistics we can support and perpetuate for generations to come i see my time running out so i will point out that there are consequences to lack of performance this is mentioned in my written testimony i would like to mention before closing that under the able leadership of our new mayor vincent gray we are now coming together as one city to leverage the strengths and address the weaknesses of both sectors of public education in this city as a whole these are an array of life changing options and performance accountability you were clear but i want to give you another chance to be absolutely clear so we can shatter this facade that supporting the osp diverts public monies away from the public school system and the charter school system in your opening statement you addressed that can you do it one more time does this program divert any money from the public school system or the charter school system chavous no it does not when we were in discussions about this program there were a couple of things that are relevant to that question one is we wanted to make sure that we lifted all boats we recognized that we had to proceed on two tracks that w c public schools was struggling and the d c charter school movement was improving we wanted to make sure that this federal partnership this unique federal partnership provided funding for those two sectors at the same time that we provided money for the opportunity scholarship program we also recognized the argument that some people were making that it would take money away so we held d c public schools harmless so for every child that they lost that went to the program they still got the per pupil funding dollars to d c public school so at the end of the day they did not lose dollars when this program was started mister gowdy which raises the very interesting question that my colleague from illinois representative walsh asked this morning which is who are the opponents of this program and what is their motivation and i know i am asking you to assign motives to other people but you have an experience with this program in the district of columbia that some of us do not so if it not going to divert money and the parents want it and the students want it where is the opposition mister chavous well one other thing about diversion of money at the end of the day the students  will be forced to go back to d c public schools it would add money to the bottom line we have to be mindful of that and in terms of the opposition look people don't know what they don't know and  there is a lot of fear and there is a lot of other interests to me that trump the interests of what is best for individual children there is politics there is socioeconomic dynamics there is this notion of supporting only what we know what we are used to i am of a mind and i took this position when i became a public official chairing the education committee on the council that i would support anything that would help a child or a group of children learn anything because at the end of the day when we have an achievement gap in this country between african american children and children of color and white children that over thirty years has yet to be closed in spite of all the investment we have put into education we have to proceed on those two tracks on the one track we need to do what we can to improve our public schools our traditional public schools so that all children benefit but on the other hand we need to make sure that these individual children like the two you heard from earlier today that they have a shot at this piece of american pie and i am struck by the testimony when we had a hearing a city council hearing on the voucher proposal scholarship proposal when i was on the council several years ago by a women who testified who said she had one child she said mister chavous we have seen you hire some of these new superintendents and when you hired the previous superintendent my oldest son was entering seventh grade and the superintendent said they needed three to five years well the schools didn't get better and i lost my oldest son because he was in a bad school now my youngest son is about to enter seventh grade and you have another new superintendent s system and again apologize for my lack of familiarity with all things district of columbia but there were opponents to that program when it began too weren't there ms edelin yes sir there were some opponents to that program and one of the reasons was that home rule and respect for local political and policy leaders and educators in d c seemed to have been abrogated by some of the earlier proponents who went over their heads and went out of their way in some instances to speak disrespectfully to and about them and came to the congress and that did result in some resentment among the local people in d c political figures policy figures and educators to the fact of the way that it was done i am happy to say that today much of that early resentment has been ameliorated because the successes are so stunning in some of our schools with the same population of young people everybody in the country is so desperately concerned about that achievement gap has been removed those young people do have new but lots of high ranking government officials including members of congress have to make the decision on private school public school home school why should that only be a decision that rich folk get to make personally i don't think that as a parent you should be able to make the decision where you want your child to go and through the funding sources that a low income parent will be able to that the greatest equalizer that has ever existed in this country is something called public education that public education is the greatest equalizer that has existed in this country mister chavous i am very familiar with your record i have watched you and observed your work as you were a member of the d council i have also been aware of your work in terms of national education reform and the efforts to provide opportunities outside even the district of columbia and i commend you for it as a matter of fact i was at one of the schools that you have been involved with two weeks ago and had a great time with the students and some of the faculty there and let me agree with your point when you say that we don't have the will or the courage because i think that the best way to really improve failing schools especially schools that are underperforming is to not only provide a certain amount of resource that they need but also to promote something that i call all of them more than ninety percent of them are not only low income but ninety percent or more qualify for food subsidies and free breakfast and subsidized lunch they right now happen to be the best performing school in the state of illinois i used to live on the block where they are located as a matter of fact the houses on one side of the block were torn down to build the school i lived in a house on the other side of the block some of the fear that some of us have when you start talking about all of the different approaches to education we don't want to diminish public education because every person has to go through the public systems they don't have any options about not going to the public system i appreciate providing opportunities for some students but i don't want to take away the effort to make sure that every student no matter where he or she might live have this opportunity for the best education that we can provide for them so when you talk about mister chairman why some people might appear to be opposed they are not opposed to education but they are afraid that there might be some retraction that there might be some going backwards that diminishing of focus on all to the benefit of the few or some may have a tendency to produce that kind of trend do either one of you have helped with for those children and that is much appreciated on that point this is the analogy i like to use it pains me what i see happening not just in d c public schools but traditional public schools around the country we need to focus on that but the analogy i use is the house on fire and we have to proceed on different tracks there are firemen who have to go put that fire out and there are firemen who have to go inside that burning building and pull some of those kids out and you know what you may  everyone out of that building but you are going to pull out as many as you can to stabilize the situation and to save lives the dire deficits of our children particularly children of color in this country particularly african american men in this country when some cities like the city i grew up in indianapolis eighty percent of the black buys in their high school drop out in baltimore it is seventy percent because of those deficits that exist i think yes we have to put the fire out and what we can to restore and improve our traditional public schools but by goodness mister ranking member we need to support any and all means that are going to educate even one child and i don't care if it is charter schools traditional public schools if it is scholarship programs if it is tax credits if it is magna schools if it is specialty schools i don't care what it is i really believe that by any means necessary should be by any means necessary when it comes to the children that we are trying to save and that is my view and i tell you i think that these parents you hear from they have that view because when it comes to individual children and individual parents who want the best for their child or their that we as well i guess speaking for the non public school sector we do ask for and get assistance from the d c public schools through the federal entitlement for the kids who attend our schools so in return because some of the service because we are small and private that we can't provide these students we are still getting assistance through the d c public school so we are not saying that we don't need the d c public schools we are just saying that we need each other need each other to find out how and ways of bringing our children and raising our children as a community and not just sometimes as an individual we have to do it as a group and through this effort all of us can make it possible for some children and like he said we might not get all of the kids but the kids that we do provide the services for we try to do the that the pressure of competition from school choice programs actually leads traditional public schools to improve in response and generate positive outcomes for students thus creating a rising tide that li boats so really the idea of expanding choice and improving public education is really a false choice the two can and often do work in close tandem ms edelin if i could also mister chairman just quickly the charter schools in d c explicitly through our association seek to find out what works for whom under what conditions and to share best practices with dcps and with other urban public school systems around the country that is one of our explicit goals to benefit all of the children mister gowdy yes ma'am thank you i thank the gentleman and i would recognize now the gentleman from arizona doctor gosar yes thank you very very much i hear a common denominated here involving parents and making that a success story with that being said doctor edelin do you support  schools and my message is about the charter schools here today mister gosar when we are talking about the education of children and being science based outcomes are everything wouldn't we acknowledge that we have a fundamental mechanism that is actually working here and wouldn't we want to acknowledge support for that scholarship type program ms edelin we support everything that is working to bring a quality education to the children of c the only evidence i can speak to directly is that of the charter public schools mister gosar if you are trying to get results based from the charter schools have you not reached out to the private schools to find out what is working for them ms edelin actually i did in my first year in this role i reached out to the independent and private schools to find out how they do evaluation and assessment because improving school quality is one of the primary pillars of the work with our association so i have reached out to them i have also reached out to high performing dcps schools and to other sources around the country for information about best practices mister gosar would you say then in a follow up that the are a success model ms edelin that i cannot attest to myself i can attest to the quality of the charter schools myself and i also have reached out to our public charter school board the  authorizer to get data they can stand behind with respect to the excellence of the schools and the shortcomings of the schools so i can speak to charter schools mister gosar well i am finding this frustrating because as a dentist i am working on the education systems that are working and i find it frustrating that i see your educational model going vertical and not including those in the dialogue horizontally with all the rest of the educators is that a fair  all respect sir i would say no i have reached out and i think the charter schools singularly seek collaboration in d c across all lines as far as quality and best practices are concerned we have made every effort to form what i call a seamless collaboration across all the sectors so that all the children of d c can get the benefit of the best of what is known it is not always reciprocated but we will keep trying am not aware of any financial implications for charter schools i may be wrong about that but i am not aware of any financial implications and i have not been the recipient of though i have asked any best practices or any information about what is working with particular groups of people as we are sorting out within the charter schools with the express intention of sharing that information with all of the school systems involving our children there is a crisis in this country with children of color from impoverished backgrounds and their learning and we are actively engaged in finding out what works and sharing it and i cannot say am not aware of one year's worth mister gosar since its inception ms edelin i don't have that figure since its inception i do know charter schools as a part of the three sector approach have received funding at least for the three years i have been with the there was double funding that d c public schools were held harmless to the contrary that money travels with the child so if a child leaves the d c public school system and goes to a charter school that per pupil funding goes to the charter school and that mister wolf is the only circumstance in which competition occurs because then the public schools are competing not only for the child but for the same funding that is not the case with private schools there is no competition with private schools because you don't have that nexus of funding to my colleagues i want to say the mantra on the other side that you have said to my constituents every child deserves a private school choice if that is your view why have you not brought a private school bill to the floor of the house so that every child including the children in your district can get a private school choice instead you are ripping money from the public schools of the district of columbia and of the united states of there was no evidence that the opportunity scholarship program affected student achievement as measured by standardized reading and math tests if that is the case how can you claim that education attainment was enhanced  given this official report from the government mister wolf representative norton educational attainment is distinct from educational achievement educational achievement refers to performance on assessments and test scores educational attainment refers to how far a child goes in the educational system their attainment of years of schooling their attainment of educational degrees  wolf representative norton for purposes of our evaluation they did take the same test that was central to our evaluation ms norton they did not take the same tests performance tests that the children in the d c public schools have to take every year mister wolf representative norton they did initially it was written into the law that we had to use the same assessments used by d c public schools at the year of enactment of the law and that was the sat nine not taken the same standardized tests the charter schools do take the same standardized tests so when you hear comparisons the comparisons i have made those are real comparisons with real students and indeed with students who were often of a lower economic level than the students in the d c public schools now you say that there was in your testimony twelve percentage points higher graduation rates of students in the private schools from students in the public schools are you aware that the charter school students have a twenty five percent better graduation rate than children in the d c public schools how would you account for that difference mister wolf representative norton i am not familiar with that particular study but one third of the students in our control group were actually in d c charter schools and they contributed to the overall average graduation rate of seventy percent for our control group the osp students when you factor out those who never used their scholarships graduated at a ninety figures very carefully could i ask you what percentage of children were sent back or left the private schools to return to the d c public schools wolf representative norton by the end of our evaluation which was six years into the initial launch of the program about half of the students offered scholarships in the first two years were still in  schools and should they start one how do they start one and i tell them that it is not a simple process and that they need to have certain elements on that board or else they are go meetings and having a charter agreement accepted or not have undergone great change based on precisely what you are saying governance is key fiscal management is absolutely crucial these are all  nonprofit organizations that enter into a contract with their authorizer which is called a charter but there are lots of other parts including getting right down to the curriculum and the scope and sequence and who will be performing this work and what are be in the first grade this is it and one chance to be in the second grade and if they fail to get what they need it is not just for that moment but it is for a lifetime that very hard every day to provide a quality education for every child that can get in i do realize that not every child gets in in a given year but our chances of growing and our viability and our sustainability have waiting lists at most of those schools at this moment in time we have had but we are now beginning just about to plateau there are some schools that have hundreds of students on the waiting lists but for the most part it is not the case that most of our charter schools have waiting lists right now there is room in charter schools for most of the children in d c to get a good public school education mister cummings there is no doubt about it that parental involvement is very significant in any school in the achievement of young people at the charter school where our kids went there was a requirement that each parent had volunteer at least something like seventy hours per year that is a lot of time and the kids had a real advantage in having a congressman because i edelin many of the charter schools ask parents to sign a pledge of commitment and the students as well because creating a culture in a building is key to its success i can't say  child or parent to be dismissed from a school for failure to do that but there is an expectation there a very high standard there that they are asked to buy into yes mister cummings just one quick thing i would suggest that you all take a look at that because i found cummings it might be well if you would go teach politics and law at all the schools in all of our jurisdictions i for one would love to have you in south carolina we will now recognize the distinguished gentleman from missouri  me talk about my district first missouri the saint louis public schools right now a debate is raging in the missouri legislature about private school vouchers and just how much we take from public schools to create these private school vouchers and we can get into the issue of whether that is fair or not  whether it is a viable option for parents and students and we can talk about that if we have time but i know it would take thousands of dollars from each  excellent testimony regarding the history and growth of d c charter schools i am interested in several parts of your testimony one is doctor can you give us your assessment and in some of our schools in every sector of the city southeast northeast northwest we have at least ninety percent but i want you to know that some of those schools are as high as ninety six and ninety seven percent well above the national average of high school levels and the math levels ms edelin this is something i would like to make very clear the district of columbia has some excellent traditional public schools particularly in the affluent wards we also have schools that are selective in that you have to audition and you have to have a certain grade point average in order to get in but if you take those off the table the affluent schools and the selective schools and you just look at the schools that serve poor children of color the charter schools outperform dcps two to one with respect to reading and math by the time they get to middle and high school charter schools stack up to d c public schools if you had to choose one or the other for your children which one would it be mister chavous well what i did for my children was looked at individual schools i wasn't focused on the system or private versus public as much as what fit the best educational needs of my individual children and i think that is what parents look to have happen for them push charter school funding i was getting worn out by a lot of people who now are talking about charter schools like they are doing great work and i think that is progress because people now understand that providing options and choice matters i think as  knows charter schools have generally outperformed d c public schools across the board but at the end of the day when it comes down to parents having choices you know in this global multifaceted technological age we need to give more choices to parents not less more matters i mean this is a situation where we need to recognize that children respond to different learning modalities but the problem us against our historical perspective where we are locked into this one size fits all paradigm that is a cookie cutter approach that you matriculate a certain way according to age and divide it according to class size and all this stuff well at the end of the day the learning that we know is going to take place over the next twenty thirty years is going to be wholly unlike anything any of us in this room can relate to so to answer your question i think charter schools are generally done well because they look at things more with a forward lens and is more innovative and creative in its output and in terms of how it relates to this hearing that is why we promoted this three sector strategy so that we would have a whole towards one another and towards this subcommittee we will be adjourned and i would ask the four if you can linger for about thirty seconds i know some of us would like to come thank you in