hello and welcome to channel seven teams town meeting television i met kelly with part three of three of our twenty eight team kitman county democratic state senator candidate forums i'm pleased to be joined on the stage tonight by chris pearson democrat reminder that this is a live call and show so if you do have questions for our candidates please feel free to dial in and ask your questions directly at eight six two three nine six six whether you have questions about increasing property taxes  or whatever concerns may be on your mind now is your chance to dial on in and ask those questions we do welcome those viewers joining us on line at c h seventeen dot tv slash live our format this evening is very simple we'll do an opening statement from each candidate and then we'll go to a round robin question and answer where we'll ask each senator one question the other two will then have the opportunity to respond and we begin with senator chris pearson of burlington your opening statement thank you matt and thanks to channel seventeen for having us on this event i think it's really important for viewers to get to talk to us and directly if they call in or whatever i'm motivated to serve in the state senate i was in the state house legislature for many years before that because i look at state government and i'm frankly frustrated that it's not representative of us i mean we are we own government it is meant to be representative that's why we have a representative democracy but i'm one of three out of thirty senators that's under fifty for instance so young people's voices aren't represented very well we have a real problem of poverty in vermont there is not re many low income voices in the legislature at all and you look at the climate crisis this is staring us down the barrel we're tiptoeing there these are these are issues that i don't think are being brought forcefully enough to the forefront and you know i'm frustrated by their economies is leaving too many people behind wages have stagnated for a great majority of or monitors middle class a struggling all of these issues need to be brought to the table and not just plopped on the table but forcefully advocated for and brought through the legislative process that's what i've tried to do i'm proud of some of the successes this year we put a fifteen dollars minimum wage bill on the governor's desk i introduced that bill i think going back four years ago in the house so now takes time these these battles take a while but those are the issues that motivate me i'm proud to be finishing up my first term half of the chyna county senate and i hope voters will send me back very good thank you this moment is really about crisis and a sense that when we talk about affordability that that gap is why for too many folks when the governor talks about affordability we've seen that he's talking about not ordinary vermonters says his buddies and business cronies that are second home owners that are doing just fine and the rest of us are struggling moonlighting in vermont economy is problematic for too many of us we live in a place where the real economy has three percent unemployment but we know too many of us are working two or three jobs to make ends meet that's not there it's not just it's not right it's not the vermont way i'm focused in particular on the opiate crisis because i'm a clinical social worker and for fifteen years i've been on or to serve addicts and alcoholics and their families and i've seen some real progress from the legislature dealing with be crisis we've constricted the flow of pain killers but there's a much bigger issue in terms of pain management and being able to actually engage in a real conversation about what addicts alcoholics and their families need coming home from rehab or recovery and i hope to be able to lead that conversation if i'm fortunate enough to serve in the legislature next year very good thank you steve meant to me lions your opening statement and what does to us as we move toward the primary election on august fourteenth i bring many years of experience as a college biology from a professor at trinity college where i taught a number of nontraditional students who had and continue to have struggles with meeting ends me student loans taking care of kids keeping a job going all the things that we worry about today so i understand are experiences and i think many experiences of people today who are looking for necessary child care and other supports that state government can provide as necessary also served as select board chair and w astin for most of my fourteen and fifteen years on the select board and during that time gained a great deal of understanding about land use planning among other things by own background lends itself to water quality to ladies planning to energy issues and also to health care where we have made some significant strides toward opiate addiction prevention and so going back to the legislature for me is really absolutely critical as we can try to turn the corner so that we can help people recover so that we can put money into prevention and put our efforts into a system of care for folks this this is a this is an important issue there are other financial issues obviously that we've been working on and i look forward to taking a step back into the senate and representing all the towns which i think kelly as i have in the past thank you very good thank you jenny now we  move to our question and answer period here and a reminder if you have a question of one of the sitting senators or candidates steve make your i asked to dial in at eight six to three nine six six we'll begin here without you i miss any kind of building on your opening statement here what do you feel is the most you know immediate crisis for the state of vermont and what bill would you immediately introduce if you were to go to the state senate in order to try to rectify that problem will thank you for the question because it really is it really is a critical moment in terms of i use the word crisis and i don't use that word l when we talk about the opiate crisis one of the things that has become increasingly clear to me as a practitioner over time is that the underlying concern for patients we never addressed and let me be even more specific the vast majority of folks who can into care for an opiate problem started with a pain issue they went to their doctor because either they were struggling with oral health issues maybe they had a molar pulled and they they struggled or that's literally the language that was used by pharmacy als reps so i think we need to take and have a full scale inquiry in q the practices of big pharma and look a systemically what happened in this crisis the attorney general will be deciding on some litigation whether or not to join with other municipalities around the country to pay or recapture some of the costs associated with treatment and then that is entirely appropriate but that is really just limited to making the priorities for the upcoming bayani and what do you see is the main concern facing most of the monitors and what would be your first priority to enter in terms of a bill to try to address that you know this is a tough question to answer simply because there are a lot of reports coming back to us regarding mental health regarding adverse family experiences adverse childhood experiences systemic changes to the child care system in vermont and those recommendations  reports will be coming to us between october and november i am very interested in some of the information that we'll be getting from our mental health folks in the state as well as our folks working on adverse family experiences i'm i'm sort of reserving judgment on that but there is one bill i don't couple bills that i know i will either be introducing myself or co sponsoring certainly it's time for us to have a water quality bill that has funding source a robust funding sewers and a systemic way of deploying those funds it's we're way past time with that and so i will be looking at my first bill for some of the reports i do have one bill that will ask for a constitutional amendment and equal rights amendment that will be based on allowing for equal rights regardless of sex gender gender identity race creed and so on religious affiliation this is a bill that will take at least two by any year for completion and we'll follow up on that you know  you chris the question back to you that we started with what are your main concerns that you see there are facing the vermonters and what are your priorities for the buy in the i'm sure i'm glad you didn't ask me to file just one bill you know we all have i think i echo center lines a broad range of interests and it's hard to pick one crisis we can talk about the lake that's clearly in crisis i if i'm only picking one it would be fifteen our minimum wage the best thing we can do to stimulate our economy it would help rebuild our middle class and give working families a leg up is to put more money in their pockets and you know we did pass that bill this year it was going to be  over five years i think it was now our minimum wage is ten fifty massachusetts just passed a fifteen dollar minimum wage we need to make sure working vermonters are keeping up and i have an economy i mean basically you work forty hours a week you should not live in poverty that's not i don't think a very controversial idea and that means we have to increase our minimum wage so that would be the one i would go to but sarah lines mentioned water quality i agree this is vital community resource that we have not done our due diligence to protect over many many generations now and we have to come to grips with that problem face it head on i also author small business bills to boost small businesses these are basically consumers in our economy and in our society that too often get overlooked as we chase large corporations who promise us big a lot of number of jobs and really you know too often explode or work for so those that's it gives you a little taste of so my priorities are going to jenny will go to you for the next question  press release was recently put out that the democratic state senators richard and county are running as a slate candidacy can you explain what that is and how that benefits in county voters so i would like to define what pleases you what i talked about as i thought about the slate i think one of the things that you learn when you're in the senate is how well to work with other folks in the senate our senate delegation is work very well together and we support one another so in that sense i think that's what i mean by slade i do support the current senators who have worked very hard alongside of me and i appreciate the work that they've done i don't see this as a as a bloc candidacy which is what i think the word slate means to some folks but it is really an opportunity to say look we've done a lot of good work together we have represented cheat the county very well and we support one another there are other very well qualified people running for the senate and i heard them to continue their efforts  but i'm disappointed that the word slate has been sort of used the way it has but for me it means people who are supportive understand one another and we have significant differences we are not all the me see it benefits children county voters to have the six of us who represent the county in the senate we're twenty percent of the senate working very well together and we have a broad range of interests we have we touch basically every committee in the bill olding so if you're interested in water climate issues i'm on those committees health care center lines on those committees so senator ingram you have filled birth this is chair of education you have to mash is the pro tem of the senate in a run in the whole thing  so so in many ways i think we do a good job for the county i like to think that we work very hard and we work well together and on all the key votes we are aligned we we will go at each other we will test theories together we will challenge each other but when it really comes down to it when the work is is completed we stand next to each other and so in that way we wanted to communicate to the county look we support each other we work well do it we enjoy working together but we're not we are six individuals and the senate is made up of thirty individuals it's a very individualistic kind of chamber you don't have people walking in lockstep and that's true with our delegation but the bottom line is i think we work very well together we deliver well for the county and we were all trying to go back there again steve may question to you slate candidacy does it benefit chickening county voters and does it allow for an upstart like then by and large all as individuals and so that this is not about any one of them what i would say is as i'm talking to people all around the county hasn't been campaigning folks feel that there's a lack of engagement because the debate that you would normally have at large field they feel like they're not getting as much and then they experience a bit of a meaningful forum that we have on the schedule between now and primary day so i think folks are really thirsting for information and they like to kick the tires and it's harder to do that when kind of for better or for worse have been perceived to kind of have like a nonaggression pact ok thank you very much chris the next question is for you what is wrong with the no new taxes no new fees pledge governor scott well nobody is dying to pay more taxes ok so let's get that on the table i think there's those of us who voted for tax increases over the years you know i think our sensitive to that i have advocated to put more taxes on wealthy vermonters the economy has been for them they've left it's left too many behind so all tax bills are not equal what is particularly damaging though about the governor's pledge is how it relates to our schools we have a local control we have voters around the state almost universally approving school budgets in this past year the  budget increases were below inflation below the target that in fact the governor sat for them and then montpelier response to that vote of local local communities and says ok here's what your property is going to be what happened because of some sort of broad campaign promise is there was no alternative well what are we going to do are we supposed to ignore local communities who have just voted to spend a little bit more on their schools and so this is a real interruption of local control and really puts my pillar in a bind the governor wanted us to spend a bunch of one time money that's not dependable going forward that a lot of that had to do with the t tax cuts in the trickle down into state coffers we can't depend on that next year so what are we going to do next year next year the governor's not going to say hey you know we're out of that phase now we can raise property taxes he's going to actually be asking us to cut school budgets that's where we drew the line we're not interested in weakening our schools for minors are rightly frustrated with property taxes i'm on a mechanism to fund our schools i have advocated for a shift to income tax to pay for schools for many years i will keep pushing on this the property taxes  problem for minors also want strong schools we want to educate our kids well and we need to find a better way to pay for it ok steve your response what is wrong with no new taxes and the governor's pl well for starters it takes a one size fits all approach there will be times when tax a tax increase is  you need to do to live in a civilized society and nobody revels in a tax increase certainly as a select board member we always tried to bring our budgets in under two percent and i credit the bill he's talking about that he and senator police have been trying to move through the legislature would be a game changer in terms of elders and making sure that the property tax doesn't leave folks house poor as they hit their golden years so i think being really prudent in terms of tax policy means being able to look at taxes and revenue generation on a case by case basis ok very good thank you steve jamie what's wrong with things no new taxes no new fees policy well first of all there's good news and bad news about it so the bad part i think is that the we have a number of needs in this state we how do you assess all the needs that we have and some folks have done that in terms of the human services area and found a serious set of unmet needs and that begins with the opiate and substance misuse issue department of children and families  trying to move money into supporting kids and in need children and need of support and we did something about that without raising taxes and fees and that was some good news and that was good news because we were able identify systemic changes that could be made within the so in the system make some changes in the organization that would relieve money in one place and move it to another on the other hand there are places where those on met needs can be met and that way either by systemic changes or by shifting you know shifting resources and so we do need to keep the door open for new fees and i think i go back to the water quality issue that was a real balmer from ai is really a shame that we didn't aggressively go after some funding for water quality in terms of the work that we did on finance committee with education and income tax we did a huge amount of work we tried to relieve people of the federal tax changes and provide money back we changed the income tax categories and rates we and  we are very cognizant of the property tax issue we are one of the i think we're the only state that has such a high property tax burden move and all of our sales and use taxes are going into education as well but we know that our local school boards are working really hard and they're working really hard to hold the the line down so all of that to needed looking at needs assessment and then we have a study in the in the budget that was finally passed without signature and that study will give us some information about how better to how to improve our tax system there's a there's a lot more to that and not the least of which is we should not be taking extra moneys and putting it into operational expenses the way the governor has suggested we do and we acquiesced a little bit to that that's really poor fiscal management we've heard that from the national council of state legislators and others including our treasurer so this is a huge issue and  that is somewhat critical of some state programs that the these programs aren't showing verifiable or quantifiable results as i understand the report can you speak to  inefficiencies of government and how that you know speaks to what the average citizen has to pay for taxes as we talk about tax and spend fiscal policy here sure the auditor have several of the business incentive programs that the state has job train job training we're talking millions of dollars right is progress yes that's right or being spent he can't he can't determine whether or not they're actually delivering a return on investment for vermont taxpayers and i think that's incredibly frustrating i think that if you're going q if you're going to say to taxpayers it we are going to use some of this money to generate revenue to to seed businesses you need to be able to also turn to them and say here's how we did well and here's how we did poorly and morning from that experience this is what we should do going forward a really solid point this afternoon on the p r that in terms of return on investment investing and a large scale capital projects like affordable housing provide a much better bang for bang for the buck as opposed to kind of the mercenary two year to year grant or the out of town business owner that comes in takes your tax credits and that has no connection to your so my my question is what is your policy what is your belief on those programs would you continue funding them would you not  position so the way i think about incentive programs i think where they've worked best is when they've been clustered around a certain area of development so renewable energy if you were going to have a special development zone or a incentive i would want to create an incubator kind of environment where results results for millions of dollars being spent on the state programs yet scuse me yes i have looked at the report i haven't fully digested it yet and probably will go back and look at it again  this issue is something that we have taken up in the finance committee in the past and then i don't remember whether we asked the guy i think it would we can't direct him as a separate office but he has done an amazing amount of work in looking at programs like the tiff tax increment financing and veggie which is a economic incentive program for jobs as well and looked at whether or not those jobs would have come to the state but for the program that's so that's the key issue and we've been trying to deal with the but for now for a long time one of the goals the legislature has is to identify programs that are data informed or data based in other words based on research verifiable outcomes and these his report begins to tell us that we don't have the right criteria in place on the other hand i've been a really i was a strong supporter for the tiff program the tax increment finance program where there's an opportunity for development such as is happening in bennington or as his is happening here and burlington or south burlington where investment money comes from initial property taxes so that money can go back in so we have we have some work to do and that's what i don't know that you just categorically and a program but at least you take take the report seriously this is not this is very serious if it's about jobs and  some of our job incentive programs that one is very concerning because we have so many people who are in underpaid jobs or have been trying to get into the workforce if this isn't working we need to change the tuned we need to look at what are what are the criteria that we're assessing so i look forward to reading the port report are the themes that i owe echo try to to try to echo in the legislature in know that that we have money that goes to businesses to retrain people who've who've maybe been pushed out of their jobs or businesses that are trying to bring new people get them qualified in but actually those dollars go to the same companies over and over and over or you look at tax credit program they went to green mountain coffee keurig you know i think it was ten million dollars over a series of years and they turned around it got so for fourteen billion dollars and and we're all gone hey we have a ten dollars back and we actually did when i was in the house we passed a law that would clawback those monies in the event of a sale that clearly demonstrates maybe they didn't need our tax dollars more i actually would take the approach of ending this corporate welfare programs and maybe i wouldn't be successful across the board but make them come in and prove that these programs are working the bu for clause what it what it means to two vermonters may not be aware is we would not be able to create these jobs these ten jobs these two hundred jobs but for these tax credits of the state is giving us that's very very very difficult to prove and actually i don't like the tests that we give them to demonstrate this that they're answering the but for clause i think it's sort of widespread joke that we all recognize it's not really working and underpinning all of that and my concern and concern of others is that our small businesses which are the backbone of our economy that are creating jobs and are absolutely struggling to get capital and they can't walk in and qualify for these tax write offs because they're too small and they can't walk into the bank and get simple straightforward access to capital because they don't have the business history to prove that they're viable or what have you  until we have more rigorous tests that really really prove that the tax credits are essential i think we need to end this program we've got a lot of on rent means in the state coming and we can spend it better or good will move on to our next property taxes property tax notice is just one out and there is a rather large snafu that this comes on the heel of last year refunds being delayed considerably what's going on is state government actually functioning for all of vermonters the systems that vermonters depend on on a day to day basis seem to be breaking down this is a very good question i cannot answer why the tax department hasn't done its job effectively i know that they're scrambling right now to curb make corrections the state government by and large from what i have seen is in some ways under people and there are insufficient resources put into programs that require a lot of work i know  when another governor was in the office governor douglas there were huge cuts to the agency of natural resources there were huge cuts to agency of human services there was reorganization i don't know exactly what happened to the tax department with that but so you know by and large i am extremely supportive of the people who are in state government and i do not know i can't answer your question about what is the again late taxes notices that are incorrect thousands of dollars that are having to be spent in terms of man hours to answer the questions of vermonters you have received incorrect notices what's the solution here well i hope you'll ask the governor this question i mean he runs the tax apartment it's his staff the people he picks the people that are in charge of tax apartment but that's not a very satisfying answer part of what's going on also in addition to what sarah lines mention is is that our research our computer systems running the software and the actual hardware running state government is decades old you know that floppy drive era here so that's that's a realistic challenge and we have to balance when we're writing budgets do we want new computers or do want to address the opiate crisis or do we want to keep our kids in school or you know it's very difficult but it's it's also i think emblematic of the fact that we had a budget come together later than we've ever had and in state history i mean it was dependent on the five days of the governor has to  not sign a bill that it then becomes law and day five was june thirtieth this fiscal year starts july was first so the tax department couldn't get the jumpstart we passed virtually the same budget six work weeks earlier that would have given the tax apartment lead time and this comes about i don't want to pick on the governor too much but for two years now he's been governor for two years and two years now basically in early may he's put humongous rewrites of education funding education proposals on the table with two weeks in the legislative session to go we've been working for months at this point and we only work for four and a half months of the year like like we're not working now until january a lot of reminders don't know that's very part time if he's going to keep playing these games and put us q two proposals on the table drew may first these are not essentially not serious proposals because of the timeline that has ramifications and vermonters need to understand that these things are connected and maybe he score some political points because he beats up on us because we're interested in raising taxes as though that's what motivates us actually strong schools motivates us but these games have ramifications and right now you're seeing it come out in sna on property tax property tax bills late tax refund steve is state government serving vermonters at its best well i think you'd have to say no but i think for all of the reasons that jenny laid out you have an infrastructure that is aging you have a a a job corps that is insufficient to actually deliver the  service i do have one other thought about this i've had the opportunity to work in a career in a bunch of different places and on the canadian side of the border they actually have something called service canada which is kind of a one stop shop for the thirty forty fifty most likely service interactions that the general public would have regardless of department it's kind of like your d meets your town hall but you can go and get your fishing license and you can also going get you know permits if your in construction and being able to say to vermonters that part of the bargain that we're going to make with you is that yes we are going to collect taxes we're going to run a government but we have an expectation that the people who run that government that that government's going to run lean and that is going to provide you a quality product as inexpensively as possible that's what we owe the general public very good steve chris will move to you for our final question before we get to closing statements here can you talk about constitutional amendment to mash on wednesday had mentioned that he possibly would like to introduce a constitutional amendment making the governor's term four years can you speak to that constitutional amendment the one that jimmy wants to make which will give you that time to speak about and constitutional amendments in general well sure so the four year term did did senator ash say that that was only for governor or legislature as well are saying for the governor where one of two states i think at this point new hampshire being the other that has a two year term i support a four year term i don't think for minors one more campaigns but you want to balance it with vermonters we also have an expectation that we get to meet candidates talk to them directly and so you've got to balance that the reason i think it's probably time to move to four year term is we have big problems and the reality is in my pil year every other year is an election year and the nature of elected folks is it's an election year maybe maybe we won't dive into this controversial thing i think our problems are significant enough whether you're looking at the lake or health care or property tax reform that we need more than a year to really come up with solutions and in that way i think a four year term it's working you know it's every other state except for new hampshire has a four year term for governor and i think that's probably a reasonable solution what i like about the constitutional amendment is it's not just up the legislature we kick the tires we figure out how it could work and then voters get the chance to weigh in so ultimately it voters are going to have the say in this question and that's totally appropriate you can steve constitutional amendment in general and in particular a four year term for governor so i'm a i'm a big fan of constitutional amendments for for the reason the chris just pointed out i believe that in a state that makes tell meeting into a holiday it's a tradition that we hold dear the least we can do is consult the public it's why i supported initiative and referendum in vermont we would get if we were to ever do initiative it would have to be indirect initiative but that would be a that i would consider introducing because i think we will get we get interesting and solid policy when we let more voices into the system and  chris and jenny the company i also have a constitutional amendment that i would introduce and it would be to create a right to health care that we should have a right to basic and adequate health care for all very good jimmy constitutional amendment and now you have one you spoke briefly of it speak to that and then for your term for governor before we do our closing statement is so constitutional amendments i believe are helpful especially in the case of the elections process or an equal rights amendment our constitution was written many years ago so it's a good time it's good to update it from time to time the issue is remember i don't know if people understand but once  bill is introduced it goes through a process for two years the first by any am and then it comes back and it has to be passed by the legislature another by any m so that's a second vote on the same proposal and then it goes to the voters so constitutional amendment really goes through the ringer so there's a lot of opportunity for people to learn about it and understand what it means so i think we have a good process  constitutional amendment that senator ash is introducing and chris has talked about and steve of mention it that proposal of giving the governor a four year term i think from a i think of three branches of government and if we're going to have an executive branch that has four years in office then i think at least the senate and possibly the house should have a crack at the same length of time i'm hoping that that is a debate that will happen as that bill goes forward that's a that's a big consideration obviously in terms of my own amendment it is an equal rights amendment that goes beyond sex it goes to gender orientation racial background ethnicity and and a number of categories that i think are under represented within our constitution the value of a constitutional amendment in particular an equal rights is that it allows for the constitution to stand on its own we don't have to pass a right to marriage law we don't have to pass equal pay for equal work because i have done closing statements from each of our candidates will ask each of them to take thirty seconds to sum up their candidacy and why they think they should be your next and county state senator and we'll begin with you stephen me well i want to thank channel seventeen again for this opportunity so i'm running because i'm concerned about wages i'm concerned about student loans and the need for student loan release i'm concerned about health care and the need to bring about basic an adequate health care for every vermonter and if i am fortunate to be elected i want to go to work and champion those causes for every day vermonters across this county across the state good steve may thank you very much for your time tonight  i have a lot more to do in the senate i look forward to working on water quality environmental issues health care issues prescription drug costs and on and on i really enjoy representing every single town genuine thank you chris pearson your final comment on your own candidacy for state senate sure i've been honored to be finishing up my first term in the senate and i had served in the house serving in the legislature is an incredible job it is very challenging i'm learning all the time it is mad may often sort of whip your hair out the bottom line is the government works for all of us and it has left our economy has left far too many families behind people working two three jobs people are working full time living in poverty people are one broken down car away from being in real financial trouble or a health emergency away from being in real fiscal trouble and we have to we can do better we are unique in the advanced world to not giving paid leave to not guaranteeing right to higher ed to affordable medicines pharmaceuticals we've made some progress on that this year the list goes on and on and on we have to have a state government that works for regular vermont and for working families and this is the voice that i try to fight for day in day out my pillar and i hope people will support me they get thank you thank you to all of our candidates for joining us this evening and throughout these last three forums a reminder that the primary election is tuesday aug fourteenth with the general election tuesday november sixth and here in vermont you can register to vote up to and including election day head to our website c h seventeen dot tv to check out a list of upcoming candidate forums before the primary election for all of us here at channel seventeen town meeting television i'm not cali thank you for watching