committee of come to order i'm congressman dennis kucinich chair of the domestic policy subcommittee of oversight and government reform i'm joined today by the ranking member of the sub committee mr jordan of ohio and today's hearing will examine the safety of ready to eat produce the successes and challenges posed by the california leafy greens marketing handling agreement and for the sake of this hearing we're going to use the acronym kalgan it stands for california leafy greens marketing handling agreement and we're going to also be talking about the proposed nationalization of that agreement the hearing will focus on bag or value added leafy greens marketed as ready to eat consumers are quite familiar with those products and a look at the role of private industry and government in regulating these products and the economic environmental and food safety impacts of that regulation now without objection the chair and the ranking minority member will have five minutes to make opening statements followed by opening statements  of other members not to exceed three minutes by any member who seeks recognition without objection members and witnesses have five legislative days to submit a written statement or extraneous materials for the record and without objection the chairman and ranking member will each have ten minutes for questions and a first round after which will proceed under the five minute rule pre cut packaged leafy greens marketed as ready to eat have become increasingly popular capturing seventy percent of the leafy greens market americans appreciate the convenience of this partially process product and are eating more fresh produce as a result that's a good and important development and will likely help to improve the health of americans yet as the popularity of bagged lettuce and spinach has increased so have rare but serious food borne illnesses associated with it outbreaks of the call i won fifty seven and other pathogens have occurred in relation to precut packaged leafy greens at least once a year practically every year since two thousand and three regulation to prevent these outbreaks rests in the hands of the industry the california leafy greens handler marketing agreement calgary was implemented to stave off regulatory action by the state of california c a specified set of agricultural practices designed primarily by the food and drug administration to improve the safety of leafy greens in spite of its name an impact on farmers in all parts of the nation due to the requirements of compliance with calgary imposed by national processing and retailing outlets which by and market their private industries positive efforts to safeguard the american food supply handlers responsible for growers compliance with food safety metrics pay for auditors trained by the u s d a and hired by the calgary aboard to carry out surprise and schedule inspections of standards adopted voluntarily by signatory farmers kalama however has some blind spots as well it condones a processing activity favored by the ready to eat processing industry known as coring coring lettuce in the field and only suggest minimal guidelines for sanitary treatment of harvest equipment used for coring in spite of recent scientific research identifying the potential for transferring pathogens deep into the court let us where the subsequent washing process would be unable to reach is silent on the use of certain packaging of ready to eat produce known as modified atmosphere packaging the bags of ready greens calgary does not require an enforceable standard of cold chain of distribution it does not impose tough requirements on packagers and distributors relating to the best consumed by date that's stamped on the ready to eat packaging people have seen those so they don't have any tough requirements on those packages and distributors put that stamp on scientists tell us that if bag produce labeled as ready to eat is not constantly refrigerated through the distribution chain it quickly becomes a perfect habitat for bacterial growth harmful bacteria such as ecoli one fifty seven multiply unseen and undetectable to the eye of the consumer legions of pathogens can thereby invade the unsuspecting consumers intestinal tract overwhelming his or her immune system causing severe and painful complications and in some cases death everyone who has experienced severe food poisoning knows what's at stake while it's largely silent on key questions applying to upstream processing and distribution of ready to eat produce calgary has a lot to say about farming practices and land stewardship small and organic farmers in particular have expressed concern about the costs and the scientific justification for some of calgary's requirements some of calgary as metrics are seen to be in direct conflict with environmental protection widely accepted agricultural practices in some cases streams have been contaminated wildlife refuge destroyed biodiversity threatened by farmers efforts to remain in compliance with c today we hope to address why calgary has regulatory framework has focused soley on farming practices to the exclusion of the rest of the supply chain it seems the farmers have taken the brunt of the burden of minimizing contamination when it may make more scientific sense to focus attention on the processing packaging and distribution of ready to produce consumers have a right to expect that the food they eat is safe it's in the public health interest that americans consume greater amounts of raw vegetables but whether or not nationalizing calgon as the u s d a has proposed is the best way to achieve those goals is a question of this hearing i look forward to hearing from all of our witnesses today of leafy green marketing agreements most importantly we need to have food supply that is safe americans should be able to feel confident of the produce they buy at the grocery store or that are served them at restaurants will not make them sick leafy green marketing agreement such as kalama may be a and effective way to ensure safer produce however additional guidelines and regulations may be overly burdensome to some farmers especially smaller family owned and run farms i look forward to hearing from our witnesses about their experience with the marketing  the f d a and u s d a also played key roles in food safety their culture marketing and i'm interested to hear how these roles may change if a leafy greens marketing agreement is made national additionally hope that our witnesses can discuss the implications of h r twenty seven forty nine statement to mr chairman i want to thank you so much for holding today's hearing to examine the leafy greens market the role of private industry and government in regulating these products and the economic environmental and food safety impact of the california leafy green market agreement they're hearing is happening at a very opportune time and since two thousand and three cut lettuce has developed into the second fastest growth industry in the united states grocery sales and you know i'm from california we believe in salads and so making it critically important that adequately cautions are taken and analysis conducted to endure that this increasingly popular food is not just nutritious but safe and we've taken steps  state of california to regulate the cell of not only the leafy greens packets but those in the bin as well ninety eight point five percent of the eco outbreak reported in the fi green i ha been associated with bags in precut green now the infamous two thousand and six spinach outbreak resulted in over two hundred hospitalizations nearly four hundred million dollars in l products and three deaths confirmed by the f d a in response to this and other similar instances industry leaders develop the california leafy greens marketing agreement to allow growers to join a voluntary regulatory framework which now in kopassus ninety nine percent of california's leafy green business and it's being considered for official national includes a food safety inspection program conducted by the u s d a and the enforcement of metrics are regulations developed by scientists government officials growers processors and businesses to reduce microvolt contamination of leafy greens in the field to far the supply chain while i'm pleased that the farming industry has taken the initiative to create this comprehensive framework of food safety i believe it's important to scrutinize its effectiveness and its impact on the environment some have argued that the rules placed on account intuitive to create such regulations before that is there is conclusive scientific knowledge about how a coal i make this way into the leafy greens supply so i would like to sink you mr chairman for allowing me to make this presentation i'm sorry i cannot say they just called an emergency meeting of the focus caucus to discuss the health care reform bill and it's at two thirty one i didn't know that but i have staff here and i will be hearing from them as to the witnesses in their testimony so thank you so much i yield back i thank the general a d and i'm sure show convey my sentiments and that meeting of the progressive caucus you can let them know that i'm given responsibility chairing the sharing thank you for being here with their opening statement if there's no additional opening statements the subcommittee will now receive testimony from the witnesses before us today i want to start by introducing our first panel mr mr micro michael r taylor is the senior advisor to the commissioner of food and drugs at the food and drug  mr taylor previously served as deputy commissioner for policy and is a member of the national academy of sciences committee on environmental decision making under an uncertainty he's held numerous positions in the field of food safety and research among them administrator of the food safety and inspection services at the u s department of agriculture vice president for public policy at monsanto corporation he's well it was also a practicing attorney in the field at the law firm of king ms rand pay is the administrator of the agriculture marketing services and mess the marketing and regulatory arm of the u s department of agriculture welcome  prior to being appointed administrator at a amassed mistake was deputy secretary of legislation and policy for the california department of food and agriculture she's also served as director of international trade and plant health care for the california farm bureau federation's national affairs and research division and as a director of government relations to the agricultural council of california thanks for appearing before a subcommittee today it is the policy of the committee on oversight and government reform to swear in all witnesses before they testify so i would ask that you rise and please raise your right hand do you solemnly swear to tell the truth the whole truth and nothing but the truth thank let the record reflect that the witnesses answered in the affirmative i ask that each of the witnesses now give a brief summary of their testimony and to keep this summary under five minutes in duration i want you to know that your entire statement and anything else you want to append to it will be included in the hearing record mr taylor you will be our first witness and  you may proceed five minutes ok thank you chairman percentage and mr jordan i am michael taylor senior adviser to the commissioner at the food and drug administration which as you know is part of the department of health and human services i am pleased to be with you today to issues related to the safety of fresh produce as you know f d a is the federal agency that is responsible for regulating most of the food supply except for meat poultry and process big products which are overseen by our partners at the u s department and agriculture f is committed to ensuring that the u s food supply continues to be among the safest in the world president obama has made a personal commitment to improving food safety on july seventh two thousand this year the multi agency food safety working group that the president of stablish issue key findings on how to upgrade the food safety system for the twenty first century the working group recommends a new public health focused approach to food safety based on three core principles prioritizing prevention strengthening surveillance and enforcement and improving response and recovery f d a has been an integral part of the working groups continuing efforts to establish these principles fresh produce the topic of today's hearing presents special safety challenges as the chairman  line the number of illnesses associated with fresh produce is a continuing concern for f d a the increased consumption of produce in its fresher raw form including ready to eat product reflects growing consumer interest in healthy eating as you indicated which is of course a desirable trend from a public health standpoint but these new consumption patterns and products challenge our food safety efforts fresh produce has the potential to be a source of food borne illness because it is consumed rall with only minimal processing and without generally interventions that would eliminate any pathogens that may be present because most produce is grown in an outdoor environment it is susceptible to contamination from pathogens present in the soil in manure used as fertilizer due to the presence of animals in or near fields or packing areas or in agricultural war a war used for washing or cooling produce also may be vulnerable to contamination due to inadequate work or health and hygiene protections environmental conditions inadequate production safeguards or inadequate sanitation of equipment and facilities fresh produce is produced on tens of thousands of farms and contamination in any one step in the growing packing and processing chain can be amplified throughout the subsequent steps but we also know that the possibility of harmful contamination can be minimised by understanding these potential entry points for pathogens and by implementing preventive measures wherever possible throughout the system thus in keeping with the obama administration's prevention oriented food safety strategy f d a intends to improve safety of fresh produce by establishing enforceable standards for the implementation of science based preventive controls throughout the chain of production processing and distribution these regulations will capitalize on what we in the produce industry have learned over the past decade since we published our good agricultural practices guidances in one thousand nine hundred eighty eight and they will tap the best science to develop appropriate criteria or metrics for ensuring the effectiveness of preventive controls in particular in particular production and processing settings in the short term f d a will issue commodity specific guidance is for industry on the measures they can implement now to prevent or minimize microbial hazards of fresh produce f d a will soon publish draft guidance is for improving the safety of leafy greens melons and tomatoes three specific commodities that have been associated with food borne illness breaks the guidance is described preventive controls that industry can implement to reduce the risk of microbial contamination in the harvesting transporting and distribution of these commodities it is not enough of course to issue regulations and guidance is we must also ensure that the preventive measures they call for are widely and effectively implemented to that end f d a will work with its federal and state partners to plan and implement an inspection unfortunate program program aimed at ensuring high rates of compliance with the produce safety regulations f d a recognizes the importance of leveraging the expertise and resources of other federal state and local agencies to be sure the industry understands the new requirements and to help them achieve greater compliance one way we can leverage resources to work with the agricultural marketing services they consider and implement marketing agreements and orders by incorporat standards involuntary marking the green ones and then conducting audits to ensure compliance by those who subscribe to such an agreement in this contributes to the goal we all share which is widespread compliance with modern preventive control measures we believe that a  produce safety standards in marketing agreements orders can help ensure high rates of compliance with f d a standards in addition to highlighting measures that the executive branch could implement to enhance food safety the white house food safety working group also knows the need for congress to modernize the food safety statutes legislative authorities rest that would hands the safety of products include enhanced ability to require science based preventive controls at hand enhanced ability to establish an enforced performance standards to measure the implementation of proper food safety procedures access to basic food safety records and u s specs and mandate and other tools to foster compliance and other provisions the food safety enhancement act or twenty seven forty nine being considered by the house today you for at the invitation for me to appear here before you today i appreciate the opportunity to share with you a brief overview of our activities regarding marketing orders and agreements for fruits and vegetables as mr taylor stated f d a is the federal agency responsible for food safety efforts and vegetables at u s d a the food safety and inspection service holds similar responsibility for meat poultry and egg products the mission of an ass is to facilitate the marketing of agricultural products and mass is not a food safety agency we are an agency with a long history of working with producers and processors our marketing programs and in involved inspection of production product quality and verification production processes under the agricultural marketing agreement act of one nine hundred thirty seven marketing orders and agreements assist farmers and handlers by allowing them to collectively work to solve marketing problems these programs are industry initiated and subject public review there is a seven step process and initiating a marketing agreement to industry petitions yest u s d a which recently occurred on the national leafy green marketing agreement us deal u s d a holds public meetings which will be having on the national leafy greens marking agreement in september and october we review all comments and either terminate the proceedings or publish a proposed rule in the past we have terminated proceedings of a potential marketing agreement or order u s d a publishes a final agreement and appoints a committee the committee develops best practices those best practices are sent out are published for public comment and then u publishes a final metrics are best practices marketing agreements only playas apply to handlers who voluntarily sign an agreement fees are collected from handlers to cover local costs of administering these programs the act provides authority to regulate the quality of commodities through federal agreements u s d a considers the harmful pathogens of toxins to be a characteristic of higher quality products federal marketing orders and agreements include minimum quality grade requirements which can identify with the presence of mold insect infestation for material or other contaminants the marketing order for california prunes has an inspection and fumigation requirements relative to live insect infestation since  if president would be lower would lower the quality and market value of pistachios on june eighth a m s received an industry proposal for a national marketing agreement for lettuce spanish spinach and other leafy greens the purpose of the proposed agreement is to enhance the quality and increase the market ability of fresh leafy green vegetable products through the application of good agricultural and handling practices requirements implemented under the proposed program would be science based conform to a guidance to minimize food safety risks and be subject to u s d a oversight the program would only be binding on signatory handlers the program would require signatories to verify that any product handled comes from producers or handlers using verified good agricultural and handling practices the program would authorize unannounced audits and apply to imports any product deemed an immediate food safety risk concern by u s d a inspection will be reported to f d a we are aware that there are concerns from various groups on the proposed marketing agreement we welcome comments from those parties and other interested parties and will carefully consider them to conclude mr chairman i would like to reiterate that the federal food safety policies for fruits and vegetables fall under the jurisdiction of f d a however i am asked does have significant experience in the design and delivery of marketing programs including marketing orders an agreement the process for potential establishing a marketing order or agreement is an open and transparent process in which i am asked carefully consider all viewpoints i'm happy to respond to any questions i thank the general a the we will now proceed with ten minutes of questions beginning with myself and then i'll turn it over to mr jordan like to start with mr taylor and mr taylor ready to eat is a marketing slogan assuring that the salad in the package is safe for consumption without requiring further washing or cutting by the consumer the california leafy greens handler marketing agreement calgon is a voluntary industry sponsored means of ensuring quality and safety a process leafy greens including those to be marketed as ready to eat it was developed to preempt legislative regulatory action from the california state assembly has make a contribution to making the food safer i think we all understand that the safety the product ultimately depends on what happens not only at that point on the on the production and but through processing in the way the park is handled throughout when you say contribution what  which is science behind that the safety of these products at the end depends on preventing contamination there who have like a little closer attention that's the safety these products really depends fundamentally on prevention of contamination in the first place for roff fresh products we don't have processing steps that decisively kill pathogens so prevention throughout the system is the key to safety and so the point is that the on farm practices and by the in the agreement make a contribution but isn't it i was not in the government then but i am aware of these everywhere the iceberg lettuce outbreak also in that year i think was in a true that nearly every case since one thousand nine hundred nine outbreaks of food borne pathogens that were traced to leafy greens involved precut it's a lot easier if you answer the question you didn't answer the question please answer the question if the question is whether the market agreement has solve the problem of first put of safety down the answer's no of course it hasn't why i ask you a question oh you didn't answer i'm going to repeat it just to make sure that you heard it i asked you that isn't it true that in nearly every case since one thousand nine hundred eighty nine outbreaks of food borne pathogens that were traced to leafy greens involved precut packaged leafy greens not wholly for grains yes or no yes thank you now mr taylor doesn't that suggest that the processing of leafy greens is a significant factor the processing is a significant factor in causing outbreaks of good agricultural practices in metrics imposed by caldera and the u s d a insists that its marketing agreement program is consistent with f d a guidelines and regulations one thing we've noticed in our review of calgary is that a lot of requirements are imposed on farmers w comparatively less burdensome guidance is suggested to the processors who buy the greens from the farmers and turn them into precut packet salads for marketing to the public i mean even when i look at your testimony it's you know you're still pretty heavy on the farmer side now for instance when kalama prohibits farmers from planting within four hundred feet of a hedgerow and the question will basis that wildlife pose a significant risk of contamination kalama loss of processing activity of corn lettuce in the field and activity the f d a acknowledges has a potential for contamination with only minimal guidance for washing and storing of the knives used to core lettuce seems to be a double standard mr taylor is cal goes kalb was imposition of detailed requirements on farmers but only suggested guidelines on handlers and distributors justified by the science and how to make precut salads safer the science says we need in forcible preventive measures throughout the system from farm through distribution and that's a lot of work to do to improve the safety of produce absolutely has to in fact doesn't the f d a is two thousand a guidance for industry to minimise micro by micro biome food safety hazards for fresh cut foods and vegetables incorporate small farmers have told me that the u s d a represents everybody but the farmers let's hope the new administration succeeds in changing that impression in the next panel we're going to hear from a farmer who has a lot of criticism going to hear from a survival survivor of e coli poisoning related to precut lettuce that she ate in two thousand and eight as you know u s d a is actively promoting the nationalization calling lettuce in the field we do not have a on the current national leafy greens marketing proposal that's before the public it's at the very beginning of the process the hearings will begin in september do you think over what do i what do you think what you think i think at the end of the day the program needs to work for small producers and needs to work for different cultural practices regional differences i think at the end of the day that's the only way you're going to have the best national program at the end of the day do you think the processing companies ought to have protocols that are protective of the consumers processors yes should everyone has to play a part in food safety  is not just a farmers process as well yes of course ok now mistake of calgary becomes nationalized there will likely be increased costs and growers farmers as they take mitigation measures to be in compliance with the c requirements these costs will be both financial as well as environmental such as cost of turning areas of land that might have been previously wild into empty lots and the associated land erosion runoff stream contamination that follows with this in mind do you believe that the u s d a should consider environmental impacts when promoting marketing agreements regulating food production yes we must we must consider environmental impacts we must we must make sure that it's in compliance  state and federal laws i think the other point that point that you bring up is right now what farmers are facing and i just got an email last night from a farmer i know in california is there facing buyers are requiring good agricultural practices and so even without the marketing agreement you're seeing buyers demanding good agricultural practices of farmers and let's talk about a specific issue that would matter to the processors as opposed to the farmers isn't it true that the best that best consume by expiration date that damped is now fifteen to seventeen days after the produce leaves the processing plant while only seven years ago the best consumed by date for fresh cut produce was more like five to ten days i actually have no knowledge of the best consumed date i think that may be an f d a issue so ok company measure those are an f d a requirement and they addressed product quality a well you know their company measures but isn't it true that the best consume date that was set stamped right now it's about fifteen to seventeen days after the produce leaves the processing plant right because they're right or not i don't personally have those facts my disposal but i don't have a i don't have a reason you're the guy you got to have and it's fifteen to seventeen days after the produce leaves the processing plant but a few years ago mr jordan the best consume by date for fresh produce was more like five to ten days now and i'd i would ask you mr taylor to take note of that contamination specially if the bag leafy greens become hothouses of contamination if there's not consistent refrigeration and this is where the preventive control science based their controls are all about understanding issues just like that what what is the the likelihood of growth what are the conditions that would reduce growth and what's an acceptable holding period for a product so in doing our preventive control regulations that's the kind of issue that we'll need to address one final question and we're going to go over reverse the trend of longer and longer dress consumed by dates there's no right i i don't i really don't know on that and i don't know what correct a correct answer in this case but yes me personally i don't personally know i i'm confident that our experts you know technical experts because we'll have that information and we can certainly share what knowledge we've got with you for sure ok but is it well i guess miss peggy is that  would you would you say that the chairman statement was was accurate that's that's in fact been what's happened over the last several years that that date has went from five to ten to fifteen or seventeen you know i i remember a lot of discussion about this in two thousand and six from the outbreak  but i don't know what the guidance is or where the trends have gone so i don't have any information on that right now ok let me ask you we're going to have votes in a few minutes and one of the bills we're going to be voting on is mr dingell's legislation at least it looks like that give me your thoughts on that piece of legislation because i know many in the agriculture community are concerned about that i think you in your in your introduction of the chairman have a background with the california farm  so let's start with you with your thoughts on that bill that looks like is going to be on the floor here just a few minutes well the bill clearly we support we do support the bill and we we look for looking at what the working group produces and looking at other as they review the current statutes and regulatory authorities and seeing how we can move into the twenty first century i think what many of these measures let me ask you think they you know again recognizing where where you work for do you think they've got some you know i i think that we have to i think in working with after day and u s d a we have a good partnership where we can both educate one another about what happens in the field and they can assist us and giving us guidance think the the core strength of this bill is that it would have congress mandated the shift to a prevention strategy and empower f d a to set it in four standards for preventive controls that will make food safer throughout the system  produce it would of course direct the f d a to issue regulations to establish enforceable preventive controls and importantly direct f d a to take into account the diversity of the grower community to take into account environmental impacts mean these are all factors that have to be considered in order to get it right in terms of you know having an abundant safe supply of fresh produce which is an important goal that we all share with respect to the the concerns of the agricultural community i mean we look at the bill really hard i think the bill  evolved a lot in fact now very much focuses f t s authorities with respect to on farm activity to those areas such as fresh produce where there is going to be a science based sort of respect as justification for establishing standards and so i think it's a fairly talking about here in this hearing tell tell me how tell me how they might be impacted well into developing regulations like this for an industry that has that degree of diversity and in my back and i remember dealing with this back at the state house and it  e businesses all over the all over the state so you know it's often so there are activities like that i mean it's very hard to envision how a federal regulation could establish a meaningful preventive control gene for an operation like that and so again taking the command of the bill seriously we would look at where the appropriate exemptions how do you define what the boundaries around these requirements so that we have the food safety objective but also do it in a feasible realistic way i mean that's that's the command we hope we get from congress and we plan to do that  think he does bring up a lot that you have to take him to consider into consideration what happens on a different scale and i think we'll be working a lot with the f d a on the implementation of it and providing our experience and our guidance out there in that area so taylor if you stretch out that best consume by day and ready to proceed produce it's a benefit for the process or it obviously facilitates long distance transportation you know instead of five ten days fifteen to seventeen days past two years by but isn't a shorter best consume by period in the interest of protecting the public south mr taylor again that the question is what what are the holding conditions for that product what's the nature of the product and i think that you you've got to have a scientific answer to that question and there's no question that if you have pathogen growth potential and you're not having cold chain sort of say family practices then you the longer you hold up the product the greater the risk and so i think we need a science based answer to what what's right there let's look at let's look at a science based case in the case of the two thousand and six eco i won fifty seven outbreak that affected at least two hundred forty people has the f d a correlated the location and date of the consumption of the tainted spinach and the date of illness with the date of harvesting harvested best used by two hundred four people they call you've done the correlations and i bet i don't know the answer to that i started four weeks ago i can find out what investigation was done we can brief you on give you an spreadsheet with that information for each of the known victims of the call i won fifty seven poisoning namely the location and date of consumption of the tainted products the date of illness and the original data processing can you do that we will provide you the information we have a little if you could if you could do that we'd really appreciate that and matter of fact while we're at it can you do that for all produce related outbreaks since one thousand nine hundred ninety nine you know which ones they are we've talked about a few of them just create a spreadsheet should take too long to do security have the information put in a usable form for this committee so that we can it can help us in our deliberations about this issue of the transportation time in the best use by date which so many consumers use guidelines as to whether or not to consume something for the one final question for each of the witnesses mr taylor again a purpose to protect public house by reduce health by reducing micro bio chem contamination leafy greens quote from fields so fork distribution supply chain unquote when it be more consistent with the purpose of cal going to include science based restrictions on the packaging just use it in marketing practices of ready to produce rather than categorize current near silence or lack of specific requirements on those issues this is a and i can't speak to the scope of the permissible scope of marketing agreements u s d a but the answer to whether we need standards at each of those stages along the way that are enforceable and set by the food and drug administration the answer is clearly a science based yes sir and a mistake just to differentiate to the california marketing agreement is based on the california marketing act we're looking at a national program and i think that through this process as well as a public process we can ensure that a final program does include all those components well i want to for we conclude this i'd like to go back to mr taylor want to read you a few opinions about the effect of the packaging used to market ready to produce because of the higher relative humidity of ready to eat packages the risk of pathogenic growth is higher each degree over forty degrees will increase the rate of pathogenic growth this is from larry bush a ph d center for food safety university of georgia here's another quote the problem comes when leafy greens are coming home and ready to eat bags if they're left anywhere when temperatures are above fifty degrees fahrenheit it's widely known they can become breeding grounds for bacteria unquote mr r at well ph d western institute for food safety and security know the quote it's a perfect environment for all kinds of things to grow and quote nine have been caused by precut package greed as far as i know i'm only qualification is because i'm under oath and just don't want to the  how crops are raised i mean in effect and i'll be anxious to hear i know we have a farmer on the on the next panel in effect dictating how farmers produce their crop is is that your understanding of how the legislation is going to work m to be with the farmer producing the crop it seems to be elsewhere in the in this is my change elsewhere in the processing or transportation or what have you not with you know that's my concern is that the farmer knows how to produce his crop let's let's not overregulate  overburden this guy who has produce in the food but certainly not go out there and make it difficult for the mom and mom and pop to work setting up the wagon and selling his wheat corn to the neighbors and to the to the neighborhood but we just know how government works i mean look  we were told last year that we're going to just have one small little bailout we promise it'll just be one little bailout and this thing will grow and you know we don't want to get in the private sector like what we've seen what's happened in the last year just in the in the financial industry alone love and let alone the auto industry so these always start out with great intentions but we know the pattern of government and what typically happens so that's my concern i think frankly it's in a large degree the chairman's concern and certainly lots of folks in agriculture they're concerned because they just know the nature of government it's tough enough many times for folks in agriculture to deal with the state department of agriculture and other regulatory agencies at state level let alone out big brother in washington  tell them how to run the farm how to run the business so that's my big concern and we'll continue to watch this whole process relative to the bill and the issuer for dressing in the committee but that i would yield back to jim thank you we're going to go to one  one more round here before we get to the next panel this pig here's another example of something farmers have a problem with calgary identifies a number of sources of potential pathogens that must be avoided for certification these include birds feral pigs and other wildlife as well as cattle to comply farmers are paying for measures such as the building of large fences to thwart wildlife but the science hardly conclusive the wildlife was a likely source of contamination and we go over that again the science is hardly conclusive that wildlife was a likely source of contamination in the two thousand and six spinach contamination is natural well in the two thousand and six actually in the outbreak there was and maybe f d a can speak to that but there was concern about wildlife and that outbreak that did occur while pigs was was the wildlife i use and you say it's concern that is that evidence based is it or is it just conjecture oh what it what's the basis of that concern and was a conclusive or was it conjecture or was it was it science based what was it  now the california leafy greens marketing agreement does look at other potential risks and they also do rank wildlife as high risk or low risk i would like i would in order to facilitate this sharing i'd  between high risk circumstances and low risk circumstances such as the presence of frogs or other wildlife that's carrying a prioritize in other words high risk circumstances well the prioritizing low risk circumstances i believe it does and isn't it true that all farms have to eliminate riparian areas hedgerows if they're within a calculus specified distance from a crop edge i'm not i'm not positive on the current page i want you to look at this sli on the screen and staff put the slide up ok the aerial photo above was taken before calcutta you can plainly see a strip of green between several fields where trees and hedges are and where virgin wildlife can take shelter now look at the don't know if i can speak to that because i don't know if the which is then one and i mean this is been a huge issue we have discussed this since since two thousand and six is that how do you deal with are there real risks or not and i was talking to california fish and game this week about it it's  for farmers does it make sense for the u s d a to advocate for a process or based framework that requires all farmers to spend heavily to prevent low risk of bad such as contamination by wildlife while the higher risk but rarer circumstance of proximity to cattle and a known risk associated with processing and packaging leafy greens are more significant contributors to the problems calgary intends to address any program needs to address the risks and look at high risk first is low risk so i think what where we're looking at in terms of any program is looking at all chains in the process and how to reduce the risks so we should pay for compliance with the farmer the processing industry to the cost be shared under the marketing agreement i believe they propose per carton assessment that the handler pays to cover the costs of the marketing agreement handlers pay farmers ok i think we're i think we're completed with questioning in the first panel we will be in touch with you regarding the follow up on questions that we've asked and we appreciate your cooperation with the committee and your presence here today those buzzers that you heard are the reason why i'm going to have to recess this meeting until after votes how many votes there are three votes and so i'd like to take a half hour break and then we're going to come back to the second panel and we'll take testimony from those who are here to talk about their experience i want to thank the  representatives of the f d a and the u s d a for being here i will look forward to working with you on these issues so that we can help consumers across america have more confidence in the safety of  we have one of our staffers charity has done a lot of work on this she could not be here today because of of an illness we look forward to her return but she did a lot of great research and i just want to acknowledge that for the record actually so thank you and we're going to go to our second panel of witnesses and i would like to introduce them we'll start with ms kelly cab welcome cab kelly cab is a survivor of the call i poisoning and has come here today to share her story with us her husband matt cobb serves in the united states marines and their peril the two young children  mr scott horse fall pronounce that right is the chief executive officer of the california leafy greens marketing board resourceful has served as chairman of the united states agricultural export development council was a member of the agricultural trade advisory committee for fruits and vegetables and is past chairman of the produce marketing association's international trade conference mr dale koch welcome mr arsalan is to call quelque i'm mr koch is a farmer and a member of the community alliance with family farmers mr coke is also the founder and president of coke farm a produce cooling storage and shipping company located in sun one but east california which represents a local california get it growers and selling throughout the u s and canada he's also a partner in in jardins a diversified organic farming operation growing on approximately five hundred acres in monterey and san benito california counties the six generation of his family born in california to work in agriculture he pioneered spring mix lettuce and was instrumental in developing its market ms caroline smith to all is that the right pronunciation welcome this to all is the director of food science at the center for science in a public interest where she is a leading consumer analyst on reform of laws and regulations governing food safety since  is maintained and annually published a list of food borne illness outbreaks organized by food source that now contain over fifteen years of outbreak reports and as presented at numerous conferences she's a co author of the book is our food safe a consumer's guide to protecting your health and environment and as author numerous papers on food safety i want to thank the witnesses for their presence here today it's the policy of our committee on oversight and government reform to swear in all witnesses before they testify i would ask them to rise raise your right hand only swear or for our to tell the truth the whole truth and nothing but thank you very much but the record reflects that each of the witnesses have answered in the affirmative as with channel one i asked city what is given oral summary of his or her testimony i'd like to see you keep that summary maximum five minutes in duration any testimony that you want to add beyond that your entire statement to be record and you want to send it is committee within a few days will get that in the record as well your complete written statement will be interactive scab welcome and like you to be a for first witness and would you please begin and i would before start just for that microphone a little closer because we want to make sure we hear everything you say thank you again and may two thousand and eight i was busy as a stay at home moms mean two children liberty who is three and matthew close enough so that the witnesses can be heard who was three and matthew one we were visiting family in washington from california and we were there without my husband because he was serving as a marine in iraq for the second time i made tents my mom invited me to go to a banquet dinner with her and some of her friends little did i know by accepting her invitation i would be changing my life forever that night i had to follow those contaminated with the call i am my mom my children and her friends were there with us happen this at the same table i just happened to pick the seat that was contaminated my children were there with us my son was on my lap but luckily he didn't eat greens of the time on may tenth i was getting ready for a drive back to california i went to bed that night with a stomach ache and woke up on may sixteenth with bad diarrhea and the most painful stomach cramps that occurred every ten minutes and tell my stern my stool turned to blood at about five o'clock i then proceeded to to the e r where they just said that i had a bacterial infection and i went home and was unable to hold down water the medicine that they gave me and i returned to the hospital two days later i was told that i had the  pain that was the cause of the illness but it wasn't bacterial in fact it was bacteria but not what they thought i was discharged from the hospital only returned a couple days later because i developed a condition of each u both my husband and my father were in iraq at the time i had to send a red cross to my husband to let him know that what was going on he was on able to come home i had the kids i was the only caretaker with him being gone so my mom took over that responsibility and set up childcare for them while she was that work they came to see me at the hospital every day and they didn't understand why i was unable to go home with them why they can stay with me  they were so young that they don't they didn't understand what was going on there were several times that i didn't think i was going to make it because the house like i was i remember on one day i think it was the twenty eight i had an allergic reaction to some pain medication that they i was given and i got intense chest pain and i remember blacking out and not really knowing what was going on and i honestly thought i was going to die right there the hospital bed my husband was in iraq my father was in iraq the kids were at home and that i want to be there with them anymore and with that i was able to really focus on what the nurses were telling me may gave me another medication to help with the the reaction from that incident from the coal i i no longer eat any produce that i can't see being washed myself i've gone to seans and ask them how they prepare their solids i cut everything for i clean everything from a bag alatas to a watermelon because when you cut through it it's going to hit your face you know your fruit the time i have with my family i mean so much more to me now because i know that any time i can be taken away from you i was i'm honestly surprised with how sick i got that i am i'm here today if anything i would want the parties that fall in my particular case to know that you know they took me away from my kids for two weeks and that's the time the phone never get back my son was one that you know he developed every day that i was gone he came to the hospital saying new words every day doing new things and i felt the pain then over i can't  the pain that i was and because i don't have a comparison that i could give to you i would rather you know i said i'd rather break bones than go to that you know out of i have a broken arm right now than go through the pain that i felt in the call i because i don't have a comparison to actually give to you on what i fell and you know it could be their family it could have just as been easily been one of my kids and had it been i it would've been devastating to them what i went went very much for coming here to testify we're certainly going to be having some questions for you when we go to that phase of this hearing at this point i'd like to ask mr horse  proceed for five minutes thank you very much roy before you proceed i want to welcome some of our visitors here from china macao thank you for being here so please proceed thank you and good she went through does not fall on deaf ears in our industry shortly after i started this job the usa today ran a recap it was a year after the original outbreak and they presented the stories of the four or five people who had died because they ate spinach and you know i know because i work with this industry that they they take that to heart they are trying to do everything they can do so that there are more victims so that we can reduce that risk as much as possible so these per my time but that that the leafy greens marketing agreement was established in two thousand seven it is a mechanism quite simply for verifying through mandatory government audits that farmers of leafy greens follow a rigorous set of food safety standards we are in instrumentality the state of california and we operate with oversight from the california department of food negra culture in the although the leafy greens industry had always prioritized food safety in the aftermath of that outbreak in two thousand and six farmers and shippers and processes recognise that more effort was needed to protect public health the question was how to do it and a lot of different approaches were looked at including regulation at both the state national level marketing orders and marketing agreement in the decision was ultimately made to go  with the tool that was most readily available which was a marketing agreement it is a voluntary organisation but it does have the force of government behind it our members when they do join it is mandatory that they follow the the the rules of the program  and the idea was to to use marketing to me also as a flexibility to change in amend the program as we get in research and there's you've talked about research a lot already this morning and we are keenly interested in research that's being done so that we can make the program better that flexibility is actually one of the key benefits of the l g m a structure our program is focused on prevention and preventing the introduction of pathogens into leafy greens fields and farms  administration and the president's food safety working group for their focus on prevention in their approach to improving food safety on july seventh in their press conference we're happy to hear vice president biden and health and human services talk about prevention is job number one i was asked to talk about where our metrics came from as the l g m a was being developed there was a parallel effort to create a set of food safety practices and standards sometimes referred to as good a practices or metrics they were developed by university in industry scientists as well as other food safety experts farmers and shippers those standards were reviewed by f d a and the u s d a and other state and federal health agencies  they cover the major risk areas that have been identified by f d a and other food safety experts practices include careful attention to site selection for growing fields based on farm history in proximity to animal operations appropriate standards for irrigation  water and other sources of water prohibition of ramah newer and they use only sort of certified safe fertilizers and of course good employee hygiene in fields and harvesting the  our members are subject to mandatory audits by the california department of food and agriculture to ensure that they are in compliance with the program those auditors are u s d a trained and the process that we use is a u s d a certified audit process our members face penalties if they are not in compliance up to and including the certification from the program which can lead to serious significant economic repercussions for the company from july twenty third  thousand and seven when we first began our auditing we've done over one thousand government audits of our members and those continue today even as we speak we all know that maintaining food safety vigilance is crucial to the future of the pro industry and while there is still very much to do and we're not done i believe that the leafy greens industry is doing more to provide a safe wholesome delicious product now than they ever have before thank you very much good afternoon jeremy because in a chian ranking member jordan thank you for inviting me to here here today i've been asked to address the impacts of california leaving green metrics on farming practices for growers in california it's estimated that the economic impacts are on the order of about eighteen thousand dollars per year on average per farm the higher for larger farms and possibly less for smaller farms to course do testing of water fertilizer soil amendments and anything else that goes onto the crop they have to document all of this they have to be aware of animal incursions pay attention to the education and then also provide some kind of traceability traceability not such an issue for sludge or other type kinds of toxic chemical to use but organic growers are facing significant issues with the push for the regulators to have  ban wildlife and non crop vegetation things like windbreaks and habitat which are things that are supposed to be encouraged by organic laws that pertain to maintain g your certification environmental impacts often very depending on the inspector and his interpretation of the metrics there are certain companies that use their own metrics which call super metrics and industry wildlife non crop vegetation and water bodies are normally viewed as food safety risks a lot of environmentally positive projects have been abandoned by growers who have been threatened with the loss of the ability to sell their crops windbreaks vegetated filt tail water rear reservoirs grass roadways vegetated ditches have been removed to comply with you know the inspectors they come out to check on them on the crop mayfield's have deer and pig fencing some also have frog and rodent fencing even though those haven't been found to be a vector of pathogens some of the fields relief greens use traps poison traps for rodents secondary poisoning of raptors in our lives can occur with this and a lot of these practices are more based on the process there is having problems pulling them out of the harvested crop because of the nature of the harvest of the crop and it is has to do with being a food safety issue practically this is been a big step backwards for environmental protection just starting to move forward on farms there's a lot more money and time that farmers have to spend trying to comply with these metrics and document this the majority the disease related outbreaks food disease related outbreaks that are associated with leafy greens come from precut processed products some kind of failure during that process to make it ready to eat or to keep make it clean enough that you don't have the pathogens sela processors tend point to the fields as being the issue it's very difficult for farmers to grow sterile crop in an open field  you do have you know we have always had employee hygiene we're concerned about our compost and we don't use the new or we test our water and our fertilizer as many farmers do just to make sure that you're not part of the problem leafy green farmers are now in the enviable position of having to pay for and comply with a roster of unproven safety metrics and attempted tempting to grow pa direction i think for the processed product that it should be representing i don't know that marketing agreements are an appropriate way to provide food safety whether they be a state or national they are in my mind there are something that focuses on marketing products rather than on actual you know conditions a growing product is being said  this were to be moved in that direction if the focus on was just on processed food you would reduce a lot of impact on there a lot of farmers that don't grow leafy greens that go into  bags and they would be eggs you know if the focus was just on the process arena you could exempt them right now and i was there when they started having the meetings to decide about leafy greens in california they included specific vegetables and i asked why those why they were just including a few vegetables there was no answer because they didn't differentiate whether it was whole head or a bunch product it was just we're g include these vegetables and the only reason i can come up with is that it's something to enhance their competitive edge because it gives them a marketing advantage if you need to adhere to these metrics and you kind of raise the bar a lot of farmers your presence here she recognizes miss smith for five minutes and after your testimony we're going to go to a round of questions the panel i has concerns about the increasing use of marketing orders as a vehicle for regulating safety fifteen different agencies administer thirty different laws that regulate food safety in the u s today and marketing orders really represent a further fractionating of this already widely fractured system food borne illness outbreaks linked to fresh produce are among the major public health problems when it comes to food safety and leafy greens and salads are among the top food categories along with beef poultry and seafood that cause both outbreaks and illnesses in addition the average size of outbreaks linked to produce tends to be larger so they tend to affect more people the importance of robust and reliable food safety practices on the farm cannot be under stated leafy greens once contaminated can support grow and spread pathogens until they're consumed chlorination and other post harvest controls can help reduce cross contamination between different lots of salad for example but they don't make contaminated product product that comes in from the farm contaminated truly safe to eat and fags scientists have shown how bacteria can in habit the washing systems use for a bag lettuce and transfer bacteria from a contaminated lot really onto a full day's production of leafy green salad while f d a has jurisdiction over on farm food safety it really has not acted as an infected effective regulator and they've been using for at least the past ten fifteen years the concept of guidance forcible guidance to the industry instead of regulations but the absence of in forcible rules leaves a significant hole in the fabric of food safety allowing and even encouraging the industry to weave standards of its own design the agricultural marketing service has served as a friendly regulator of choice when food safety problems arise and am asked the food industry can draft their own rules called marketing orders sir agreements to best suit their needs but a mess is not a quipped to monitor the safety of food the primary focus of a a mass is with the promotion of food products and the mechanisms that it uses are limited in terms of their geographic scope and often they're completely voluntary these are voluntary systems and farmers have to agree and the handlers have to agree to comply so they're limited to u s companies sometimes they're limited to companies just in the state of california and this is particularly troubling when you consider that  consumers thirteen per cent of our diet is from imported produce so huge amount of produce is never going to be subject to these marketing orders a m s oversees marketing orders for twenty two different commodities including things like aman's and shell eggs and these programs can really instill a false sense of security both for the industries involved and for consumers because they really are quality programs they're not based on safety but given the absence of rulemaking at f d a it's not really surprising that in the aftermath of the two thousand and six nature outbreak the leafy green industry turned to emmaus to create these stronger rules i just want to note that the these standards really do create uncertainty and they give rise to the private standards which are actually the complaint of many of the growers today the growers today are saying these private these standards are too burdensome but let me clue be clear these are mandatory standards they're not f d a standards they don't apply to imports so it's critically important that we actually get a system in place that will protect the public the food safety unhandsome an act which is before the house of representatives addresses this issue head on it requires f d a to consider both the food safety and the environmental impacts when promulgating regulations for food production it requires the standards to take into account small scale and diversified farming wildlife habitat conservation practices watershed protection and organic production methods this is all in the legislation that's before the house this provides an appropriate focus on public safety it gives the farmers and consumers both an opportunity to weigh in these on these standards which we don't have today with the a m s standards and it would protect the sustainable and organic farming communities that we all value these are the type of standards that consumers cannot live without thank you an organic farmers so i think that the center which endorsed the bill needs to take heed the concerns that are expressed and i think if if if if were does if we do that perhaps in a bill come back out to the floor we can see it pass thank you well that means we'll have five minutes each of us for questions hold on see their need to be a public face somebody who's dealt with this and you've dealt with it takes a lot of courage to come before a congressional committee to relate your experience and we appreciate that you're here thank you for making it the other thing i want to i want to  it was a real you know what i saw as a on rehearsed response staring which he had to say i just want to know i appreciate that because sometimes we get people come in here with a story that can be very difficult and the individuals who may have some responsibility generally in that area seem to be in passive about it and you've showed that some concern and i think that's that's next well i'd like to i'd like you to address the concern about some of countless metrics domestic animals within thirty feet of the crop edge what's the justification for allowing domestic animals the animal waste products which are a component of compost to be closer to the crop it's an compost operation in the the the compost operations are considered to be a very high risk situation in terms of pathogens we also have you know significant buffer zones if there's a confined animal any problem with growing spinach intended for the ready to market growing a couple hundred feet from the land where cattle grazed exactly the conditions present in two thousand and six minute chance and it it would depend on the number of cattle that were there  and i don't have those numbers in front of me but in that particular case the the final report as i recall you know of the feces that was found at the same thing it was over a mile away bag lettuce and it currently is i think that processors need to be regulated just as heavily as growers do and that regulation i believe is in place a p a appreciate that i just want to one more question here mr koch you're the father of the spring next spring that's helped precut packets of the green become a vegetable consumers like any increasing portions significant house contribution but you're also a critic of the ready to eat leafy green industry in your opinion is there a way for the in public to get the convenience and health benefits of precut package vegetables without the harm to farmers you mentioned in your testimony just a point of clarification developed the concept the spring mix never put it in bags and it was never ready to eat it was a field run product it was washed cooled and packed dried and packed into three pound boxes but it wasn't you know i always had serious reservations about how that product was displayed and i didn't ever want to go into what would be the long term results  in your opinion on the environment of calgary is nationalized in its current form its current form i think will affect too many growers of lettuce and cabbage and kale and chard the things that are traditionally harvested as whole heads or or bunched items because they don't make a differentiation between it those things haven't had any outbreaks associated with them people often have a kill step associated because people him up before the and what it was from for a while she would tell people not to be afraid of a blood machine to sheer numbers come in and was having a transfusion done by overall they're doing they're doing well well let me also thank your family for their service to your country thank you all for being d and what's the what's the assessment now that determine again we assess our members based on the volumes they ship it's a penny and a half per twenty four count equivalent box and i just wanna be clear our big producers come into existence which was six o seven weirdo seven have there been any any outbreaks of eco liar any any problems there have been outbreaks that have been reported i don't know that i don't believe the health authorities of conclusively finished their investigations yet to say where product got contaminated but the there was a small outbreak in washington state that is called was affected by last year there was an outbreak in michigan  is yes fewer people have gotten sick tied to lettuce in leafy greens in the last two years than the say in the two or three years before that but but you know i don't take that as a metric you know i think we still if anybody's getting sick not i have two different entities one is a sales shipping cooling company the other farming company the farming company contracts with a handler that is signatory to that and grow some crops you know salon tro dylan parsley in this case for inclusion in a salad but they want to be grown under those metrics so we do that part otherwise we have a diverse crop mix there are only a few things that would be considered leafy greens and i've resisted because i think it's you know the principle is wrong of this agreement and so i i don't want to it's cost me the ability to sell into canada because they won't accept product even though you know we're organic and we test soil and water and they want to product this not if you're not signatory to the leafy green marketing agreement i don't know and you know i'd prefer not to go there you know have to i was hoping that something would you know become a little more logical so yeah you know focus on that i mean this is you know country boy from western ohio who you know didn't didn't grow up on a great concept to give people something that's ready to eat but it's a perfect incubator i mean how do you keep that if you if you can sterilize it how do you know if you've got any low pathogen in your break that cold chain i mean even a customer just taking it out to their car and then to thank mr jordan i want to thank the witnesses for being here i'm dennis kucinich chairman of the domestic policy subcommittee mr jordan is the ranking member our hearing today has been ready to eat or not examining the impact of leafy greens marketing