there is an emergency these two doors here are the best way to get out we can also go out the way we came in but it's going to be important if there's an emergency to me in the south parking lot which is right behind me and you can make sure any comments or questions not related to agenda during none announcements there would be a couple of openings on the d r v coming up in june july so if anyone's interested there's a ton of fun twelve of paul j washburn to amend a previously approved conditional use permit for construction of a fourteen by seventeen detached accessor unit to be used as a one hundred eighty six square foot accessory residential unit the amendment consists of reducing the rosette back to five feet and increasing the height to fifteen feet at thirty meyers court the applicant has requested continuation to january twenty ninth and ten motion to continue opposite no one it's a pretty simple amendment does the board have any comment so there's the tree replacement deficiency they plan replacement is of the caliber greater than five inches seller part an amendment to the site and there's no question that they are proposing to amend their site plan the question is what the replacement of the tree is greater than five inches must so i would like to yes so i guess one question is do the board want to do away with all together the board want to come up with some media i mean in this case the applicant is proposing an extra six hundred sixty five dollars worth of trees is that enough look like that i think there's a i think the fact that it's a bare bones not profit is a bad gratian but the rest of them have pretty good rationales particularly the fact that the trees were not specifically identified i think that's significant we could get some sort of good knowing that i mean i think we should frankly have a rule that says  identify clarify this section because obviously it's been administrative a certain way for decades and i think that you know it could be it could remain up to the board to interpret unclear language or the planning commission could make it away but i'm thinking about though is is how do we can we direct administratively because this is this is useless but put a fourteen inch tree yeah you might want to replace it with two or three three inch trees or two histories but seven gets you know if if the if the project is over wanted the point from it on a case by case basis to me that's the best argument for holding off and even then i was not the greatest but it's plausible yeah i'm not so wedded to it has to be a certain way because rowling has done it that way i requirement of particular size replacements for trees with the caliber of greater than five inches i think by not giving any guidance on th and i think that we as staff have been over the last month and the board conversation happened previously telling outlook and we're not really sure where things stand right now and i think that stuff is open to following the lead of the board but you know we're going to mean more than one example so one idea and i don't know if it makes sense or not is they administrative officer always has the discretion to keep something to right i think the way i read this and i don't know how many of you planted large trees but a five inch caliber tree is a big expensive tree and i think that i think that's what was intended here and that's that's where i'm headed with this but i'm happy to see more cases but if you go out there and you wanted to you can plant a five inch calipers tree to replace the fifteen that died or had to come down or you could do to  or whatever that's that's my take on what i've read but let's let's get more cases yeah i was just saying that i don't think we should commit to a particular formula like if it's greater than five inches the replacement has to be fifty percent even something like that i think it should be flexible enough to take account of say conditions as in this case where it doesn't make sense to plan a lot of large trees and there they have they're k so just as a procedural addition to the way we run things i'm going to redo description of the sketch plan procedure because there's been questions about it sketch plan  level this is for people who don't know what scott's plans are discussed plans a high level review and discussion where an applicant receives feedback from the board on the major elements of the project before fully designed during the meeting the board may provide oral guidance to the applicant which constitutes the board's determination in quotes that the application meets the purposes of the land development regulations these comments are to help guide the applicant to a later application that meets requirements and contributes to the goals of the south burlington comprehensive plan it's not a formal hearing it does not result in a binding decision there will be an opportunity for public questions after the board completes their initial discussion of the project members of the public are welcome and encouraged to ask questions or provide feedback at this very early stage of an application please direct all questions and statements to me the board chair the board may choose to continue the meeting to a later date if there are questions that remain to be examined the future date will be announced prior to concluding his item for the evening enough thank you so what you're seeing is a small corner of the airport at the bottom of the draw just above the word site plan is the existing driveway that enters burlington airport from airport drive and you could you're seeing it about as far as just before you start to get to the terminal in the drop off area the large rectangular block in the center of the image is the proposed hotel just above that is the existing parking garage and this is a a repeat of a sketch plan that was done back in april we went off we did a bunch of business stuff came back and one of the things that's happened since then our last visit is that we've secured a commitment for a franchise for the marr so the building has gotten a little bit longer since april is really about the do it really just caused by a few inches of difference in the with of every guest room but that's very important to the franchise people they want to prove us if we don't provide exactly that and that will that that change in length will will have a big impact on our discussion a little bit about the front yard setback waiver that we're requesting in addition to a front yard setback waiver we're general the garage is five six stories tall one and and this this building when it's finished will be similar in height to the top portion of the existing garage a sort of horizontal band goes between the two buildings the proposed hotel any existing that is a newly proposed access lane that would allow hotel traffic that begins to enter the site but does not enter the garage to exit back out to airport rival airport parkway without without having to go through the entire drop off pick up area of the airport it also provides a sort of fire separation between the garage and the hotel and it's also the one of the means by which we may enter the garage hotel guests may enter the garage through that second gate we're working on the details of that with the with the airport right now but that seems to fit best with how they've deployed resources within the garage right now  the hotel will depend entirely for its parking requirement on the garage itself and i expect that we'll spend some time talking now at the future plant hearings about the  i'm going to represent based on our detailed conversations with the airport that they have more than enough parking within the garage and on their several various surface slots they keep a close eye on utilization i don't think we're going to get into precise numbers tonight but suffice it to say that they are not using one hundred percent of that asset and that's one of the things from their perspective that's making this project desirable hotel came about as a part of a request for proposals from the airport who have through their own studies identified the need for clothes in hotel rooms for airport patrons who come from two or more hours away so agree that having an airport hotel would allow people to come in from the kingdom to spend the night and get those five forty six o'clock you know first thing in the morning flights that we've all taken that having a facility like this is necessary for the support of the airport and that is one of the findings this board will have to make is that at the hotel use is compatible with and consistent with airport uses the building would have one story of guest service level which would be dining area front desk there's there's a number of small meetings spaces and things that go difference as far as how this the building lays out versus the earlier some of you may have seen we've separated the canopy feature reworked access into the garage of that fire lane i was talking about earlier  previously we had that we had traffic knowing underneath the hotel building we just couldn't make our lobby work with that configuration it took too much of the first floor footprint and we also needed to do some refinement around as you can look around the canopy you'll see the access to the garage is just beyond what we needed to provide a bypass lane and some turning maneuver so that people coming to check in are not blocking more occluding the main access to the airport i'm not going to get into much of the details of the agreement on the parking other than to say that hotel guests will there's an arrangement for hotel guests to have parking while they're staying in the hotel and then the hope is for the duration of proposed pedestrian connection between the parking garage and right now the third level of the of the hotel this is something that that the airport feel strongly about that they would like to see a pathway directly from the hotel through the year through the garage and into the airport by the existing pedestrian bridges that that space span the main entry the idea there is that somebody staying in the hotel could go from the start to see a hint of it appeared just just towards the center of the top of the page that in addition to that we're also proposing a sidewalk connection from the air from the hotel building by that crosswalk to a sidewalk that would take you outside the garage along the westerly side of the main access drive so that you could cross over to the terminal at that first cross walk that's usually attended i'm going to show a few other things but the important the important setback that we're going to talk about tonight is along airport parkway and you can see where the the ordinance shows a setback versus where we're proposing it to be so that's that's roughly a ten foot varian and chris to do a quick take on the utilities so that we get everything on the table and then we'd like to answer your questions thank you so just to give you a brief l that will need to relocate to fit the hotel footprint in in addition there is a sewer line that runs through but we won't need to really relocate that that runs on the south side of the hotel there is a water line that will have to work with the champaign water district to relocate what's helpful about that is that that is actually on a loop system so we can disconnect one end in the terminal building will still be able to be fed on with all the other buildings will be able to be there's a gas line that needs to be relocated as well that that will likely be relocated along the new access road in between the parking garage in the proposed hotel and the power in communications with power that's also another loop system so they can disconnect on one end and the airport can be fed from  west side of the proposed hotel and that will likely collect all of the access road and the hotel footprint and infiltrate most of that storm water into the ground that is barring any we have to do some soil test make sure that's possible but generally on their property we've had really good good soils that permit that activity and i think that's that's all i had thought about for utilities unless you can think of anything else greg you know it just occurred to me that i should mention the airport has asked us to include our waste management facility to integrate it in with the existing waste management facility that's on site there i think logistically they like it security wise they like it better to have all that in one location so hotel staff will take their trash cross the street to the existing dumpster enclosure that's there by the  the end of the the secretary terminal so with that i think those are the broad strokes said lynn would like to hear any questions that the board may have or perhaps we could step through step comments so do the read read comment number one relates to the issue that i brought up earlier that one of the things that will have to happen for us to be successful is that you will have to make a determination at the hotel to use falls within the aviation category that this hotel is sufficiently are related to airport operations to be allowable in the district and we've talked about this before it seems to have been ok as an issue in the past i don't know if anybody has any particular concerns about that but seeing as how it was that the process started with the airport the airport identified the need and then went out and found people to execute on it  airport passengers to come over and take advantage of the facilities in the hotel i think it's one of the few places where you'll be able to get food outside of the t s a portal so you know skinny pancake has a little kiosk underneath the stairs but this will be this will provide people another option and comments from the board on this mark anybody it seems to me like it absolutely  members of the actual airlines so as as you might know and as greg mentioned earlier most of our flights actually every single one of our flights departs between five thirty and six thirty time frame in the morning and every single one of those crewmembers needs an overnight stay because not all of them do live in the area so one of the reasons that is highly attractive to the airline our airline partners and that we're already working with our allies and partners is this hotel for that overnight sta this this hotel is going to provide services to guests in the terminal you know by by allowing them access to the to the food in the lounge ing and and fitness features the second thing is the projects are interlaced because this project is wholly dependent on the airport firm for its parking and third this this the identifying the need and establishing the project was was an airport project that we had responded to so those are those are our feelings why it should be considered as such if you had a question i'm not sure i heard you right i thought i heard you say that you with vision i mean obviously what's going to happen here is that inside the parking that hotel guests there the hotel will create some accommodation for the guests to pay for their parking while they're in the hotel if they stay on and let's say they go to aruba for two weeks they're going to they're going to still be airport parking customers they'll they'll park in the garage and pay the pay the normal rate right so this is also a driver to help use up utilize the parking for the for the airport which you know they want they want to utilize that some of the things that are going on in the airport that you may not be aware of his there's a special zone created on the ground floor close to the terminal  short like short term parking and we moved our access back and the connection to the hotels at the third store to sort of push people op and because they will they'll park close to the hotel when they when they arrive but  the airport staff is very clear that the garage has a lot of capacity that if you go up to levels five and six there's always spaces and that's my experience as well hotel guests are not going to take over a twenty two hundred c the good spaces i you know always try to leave a half an hour to get from the parking garage over to the terminal because just for that driving around as long as there's casket past in the garage you and i shouldn't have a problem  because the capacity is there any handle the demand but but but these are the spaces closest to the term not really because literally a few cars there are sort of down of the the far south end of the garage which which really makes them what i'm good not is there some way to force them into those places it's so smooth we've had a lot of we've had a lot of talks about you know transitioning people out to longer term stay lots i know for sure that employees of the hotel are going to part partying they're going to be parking in these prime spaces or they're going to be over all the airport employees park if you want to work on that issue as we come back to preliminary plan and give you more detail about how this is supposed to work i'm sure the airport the applicant would be happy to share the airport restrict the space of a restricted space the act of every airport guess i don't want to jump into the middle of that because it's part of their lease agreement but i think if we explain fully what they've much so we have talked about how to how to guide people away from the ground floor right by the entrance and i think you know that's why we've kind of moved things around the way we have but we can continue that conversation i was surprised i was up on the third floor the other day in the middle  i mean i picked up my mother two days before christmas and saw her off the day after and the third floor was you know not a ghost town but you could you could park anywhere up there i just never go up there airport has had fantastic utilization  mean they see these they are i think they're doing a fantastic job over there there are several times die days of the year weeks of the year you know around school holidays for instance where where the garage really gets used but even still i think that there are utilization reports because to keep track of people paying right so they know who's coming and going show that there's still a fair amount of capacity in that in the garage and about here for going to the terminal you would have off to the left and there's a two lane road the internal lane is under the canopy the extra layers of white pass away and and so you would you would stop here you drop your wife pick you up but if i want to come in from the back side of the hotel or from the what would that be the north side of the hotel from that near new road and i want to make a right to the get the front of number two for good this is about the setback that i referenced earlier and our quest for a waiver a ten foot waiver of the front yard setback i think the staff comments go into a little bit more detail  about that the ordinance and the all the r s and how and how in this case i think we have a multi unit p u d and the board has the right to waive this if they find it's been service of good design or consistent with  zoning regs that would be the clause that we would be employing and you know if the change came for us the the change came in shifting the footprint a little bit more westerly because of the change in the franchise we've got to secure a real franchise which is good but when it came with some dimensional requirements and then the work it took to make all that sequence of entry that we did i was just talking to frank about that  so pushing the building ten feet closer to the street helps all of that work the offer in front of the airport is fifty feet wide it's really well vegetated i think the the board has the discretion to do it i guess the question is are they willing to do it and his or his or her either some serious concerns about that i think it helps too that the you know everything across the street has been turned into parkland so in proposing that we have this right here except back you know we're not gorn anybody else's ox we're not getting closer to people across the street in fact you know that whole area is you know it's really beautiful when you come out of the airport sort of strange to see you know that what used to be backyard trees just sort of out the wild like this but i think that that feeds into that one are we are asking for a taller building because were attaching to a building that's already there that's pretty tall and the front yard setback is you know if the guidance was we can't see a way to giving that to you i'd go solve that but this is the southern and southern end is three tiers high and i think each tier is like ten foot six and say like thirty that's about right so this is somewhere around thirty feet to the deck maybe three maybe a few four four feet up to the top of the walls but but the garage itself you know about halfway down to has another couple of stories plus the roof terrace so that we think that's should mean to this conversation and i went out and looked at it just because i was thinking about this very question and the northern and the parking garage is near to the height that the hotel is proposed to be at the southern end of the parking garage really does taper off and it floor or fourth floor so you're going way of looking at that end but if you you know you go down past the dal enter then the garage pops right up so believe it has five or six stories at that and i have my thumb drive i have the working drawings for the parking garage or anybody wants to look at those images on the bare pair in mind we're going to we're going to expose our short elevation to the street the garage itself is you know several building it's this high here and it's this side here so to me having something that's this high seven feet taller compared to this that's what i'm going to look at i'm not going to be looking at i'm not going to feel like there's just this part there where there's a two story difference i'm going to look at the whole thing and think in fifty eight here sixty five they're close so to me i'm not going to feel it like a jarring out of context fire without hope waiver they could get some step backs or they can just flat out request the waiver which is what they're doing here you know i would i would be willing to take for market that suggestion that if the maybe if the if the street elevation was a little more interesting this might be a different conversation but right now we're just sort of reflecting how hotel  one thing i noticed i mean that the request for the height says sixty five feet but the dimensions of the the elevation submitted with the application show that the roof deck is at fifty six feet above the floor and i think the difference came from we briefly looked at building this using modular construction and that did that was adding building hype but i think we could limit the request for highway over to something closer to sixty feet instead of sixty on the roof deck being at fifty six and the rest of it just being bumps and grinds to make the building more interesting could be obviously windows are one component but it could also be you know some detailing some features big piece of art i think we should if we're going to open that up we should think  it i will say generally in our work with mary and the other major franchise organizations if we come to them with a problem that starts at the zoning level they get more flexible than if it's just coming from the applicant the franchisee so if the charge from this board is we don't want any blank wall space in the street i can either rotate the rooms at that end of the building ninety degrees so they're facing outwards or i can find a way to get some windows into don't we take that as as guidance from the care i take that is guidance from the board that if we do something to improve the elevations you will be more receptive to that idea both the east and the west yes yes so i have the board just because i feel misrepresent what you're saying but i think i'm kind of with you that the height or the extent of the waiver in this particular circumstance with nothing grosser street no views to worry about is not nearly as important as but please don't take that as an open invitation to decrease the setback for yeah i started to say i i think my my cost estimating is all based on the square feet we have i don't i don't think i need to enlarge the building to solve this problem but i think if we look hard at the units on the hands we can i'm sure we can find a way to make that a more active faade and i understand what the well but i think i nice piece that i think conan did that's on the front of it you know something interesting to make the make the face work and this is a general principle throughout south bergen to read just don't write blank walls that we have to that's what the board feels they they want to see in order to feel comfortable with that when we come back for preliminary platt we'll have we'll have a solution for that problem i'm confident i can get that done and i think we'll refine our request for the highway her to to to the least number we can live with but i think it'll be less than sixty five i think it's probably going to be more like between fifty and sixty better number of anything like that it was well mark i think i think in fact what's what's going on is if you look at the drawings that were in your packages as we again were showing fifty sixty to the top to the roof deck that earlier is that is that i'm going to i'm going to find that number more closely at preliminary but it won't be sixty it won't be as much as sixty five feet including the up have data sets on utilization of the garage what i've been authorized to say for tonight is that they have more than enough at parking to accommodate the additional hundred plus spaces that we'll need to do this project  i will work with the airport to get that data into a format that useful to you at acceptable to th so seven is something we will employ it's not so much a request for a waiver as a sort a reflection of the truth that the sec as it stands now has a lot of beautiful specimen trees one of the nicest things about the airport is that stretch of parkland going in front of the garage so it is likely to meet harv's ordinance requirements for adequate landscaping that some of it may be used for landscaping projects elsewhere on the airport beauty so we all will plant what we need what we want around the hotel and to the extent that we're falling short in terms of dollars to meet the requirement what this says is that we can find other media places at the airport or where plantings are acceptable one thing we have to deal with here that's unusual for projects as we've been asked to be careful to not use a lot of ground sure robs because they don't want places where people can hide along fences and stuff because they need to be able to observe and they're supposed they're secure that airport security right one hundred percent there that doesn't mean we can't plant trees and it doesn't mean we're not going to meet our requirement it  that the place where they take the rental cars to get in washington and turn him around that that that got approved and i think all their landscaping was met elsewhere in the airport the other thing we are likely to do is to identify some trees there are some large specimen trees that were retaining and we may want credit for but it's about roughly ten million dollars project i think the landscaping by just going to be a million dollars three hundred thousand dollars i have a hard time thinking where i'll put all that on this half acre parcel because it's already originally landscape but we we will meet the requirement but we we may need it as a contribution to the whole  i mean they're there physically different different properties i mean i don't know how the parcels or don't we we've been down this road before and determined that we needed to be on the airport personnel could you know when the last time we talked what the court or iraq facility or the car projects that the airport has a list going of things they want clean up and we'll find a way to contribute to it i think that's just something that takes some explaining because it's not something we do often he the airport if they're coming from when you see say either you know so it's really sort of keeping people from pulling into that secondary driveway as opposed to using the main entrance so i would like to see that one way going out  know i don't i don't feel a need unless anyone mark may have some ideas for specific improvements to landscaping but i don't see any need to give specific direction i'm happy to let him take shots out of still there should be a big south burlington scuse the consideration of placing it there so if you're just to the west of the hotel site you can see there's a little bit of a gap there and that's that's why i propose it's partially why i want to propose it there it doesn't need to be big it looks like a big  discussion about storm water flows it's that that's the fire lane between the two structures and a little bit of patio out from the roof of the boat we have permeable but it is impermeable but it's treated differently than than parking required for this project and luckily this will hear very sandy so we infiltration is a reasonable option murray is the big deal we really don't want anybody heard obviously nobody wants people to work so if we go back to the very last play in my plans that we said we can see the cross walk i think they're talking about  show on this one the one just previous it does yeah you can see the cross walk bars there we want to be able to get people from the front door of the hotel or to the terminal via the via an outside route as well the frequency of cars coming through there are substantially less than the frequency of cars going through the main terminal driveway but i think staff is just raising some safety concerns about  and that's the plan for the future and to see if i just see you know that's the first entrance you see to the garage if you're not familiar that there's another entrance around there you might do it and just try to figure out if there's going to be a line there but people that don't hotel we want some kind of special payment we don't want just ask all usually they want a concrete surface just because pasta vehicles drip stuff and they can but you know maybe that crosswalk needs to have pads or resurface in next to the hotel who have missed that and now they're at the next place you absolutely want to prevent people from make a left into there because if you do you just extend a curb so that it's only a right turn some input from the airport what their expectations are about this short term a lot but we also will have a traffic consult working with us and maybe they can recommend some pedestrian safety safeguards years that would mean your signage would need to to say that this is that first entrance is both for short term parking and for the hotel and that's the only way you're going to get to a short term or the hotel you can't miss it and then do  of raising an existing carwash facility constructing a new seventy nine hundred ninety four square foot or rental car wash facility and constructing a twenty three hundred fifty three square foot six position fueling canopy at twelve hundred airport  we have made some revisions reduction in the scope of what we're planning to do what was shown on this particular diagram is at the very bottom half of the pages is the previous application that you have seen in the past as well as the layout and the facade that used to be on there and that the very top those three images not only the new site plan but also  the facade that you'll see with our new applications which is very consistent with what we've shown in the past so if you're ok with it i'd like to walk you through exactly what the heck this is and why we're doing it but also kind of the layout and where the cars are actually going and why there was a such a reduction in the actual scope of work so so if i start out at the garage you can see some colored lines on there there's a there's a red and orange line coming out of the corner of that garage that would be perfect at the zoomed in page of that top with their young perfect  so that that corner of the top left corner of the garage is really the initial part of the entire transaction of a car rental agency so imagine yourself renting a car obviously you're doing that inside the terminal walking out to the garage picking up your car take your car away return the car into the same parking area inside the garage the service agents of the car rental companies then use that light orange line to take that vehicle into this new way or quick turnaround facility they go into a queuing spot which are those all of those low winds going into what is what you see there is six fueling base which they fuel the vehicle there are vacuum stations in that area as well it's a full canopy sitting on top of a concrete slab those three excuse me those six fueling stations then funnel into those three car wash  instructs and three office spaces the office space in the maintenance shops have been removed and now three vacuum which is the orange positions on that map and the car wash facility itself which is the light purple second facility or second entity and enterprise and national as the third entity so everything split up evenly with this facility and then once you finish with that late orange line you're going into the red area where now the vehicle again in all innocence of the name is a quick turnaround facility quickly goes back into the garage for the next debate go on this site is generally  reduce the footprint the fence line is reduced from your previous version of the application and you can see some darker gray areas that that we outline as add alternate at alternate pavement we are actually going to be paving those and would be requesting as part of this application so that's that's really the site itself another major change is the fueling truck designation which is the blue line designated from the blue line which originates out of airport drive coming into what i call white street extension over there and that right hand turn into the parking area into a designated lane specific for the fueling truck itself there is a underground fifteen thousand gallon fuel tank over there that has not changed from the previous applications position the reason for that is if ever there's an expansion of the airport we don't want to limit our footprint with the current facility like this so generally that footprint stays the same we're just reducing the scope of work and keeping that fueling underground tank word however it is outside the fence  c and then lastly as i mentioned the office space was removed from the previous building application that yellow building right there while we don't intend to use it right now especially talking with a car rental agencies recently we don't intend to use it as an office space building we do want to keep it in there just in case there is potential for it and office space need for this particular say right now it's a vacant building that we don't use for anything because we're we're planning to use it for this facility a used to be the only person short of building a long while back let's see the entrance it is a secured site so there is gated entrance is there is today but this is a much secure facility but there is an additional gated exit or entrance in the back area just above the yellow building there just just which is east there so that is a gated access point as well so if there is car carriers that come in to drop off additional rental cars which there certainly is in the industry that point of access can be used so that airport drive is no longer needed to access the  e meaning taking cars off of either in the parking lot or or on adjacent sites that we do on and bringing them around our airports circle as part of history as part of the job o work to there is also a designated entrance to our f a a federal aviation administration facility for the air traffic controllers so just to the right of those orange and red lines right there  that's a designated exclusive entrance for the f a a facility no longer right now they do share an entrance so that they split ok unless the board has questions we can dive into stuff comments that we have traditionally allowed the airport to provide estimated coverage calculations as long as they are demonstrably well within the allowed maximums so i'm assuming that maximum coverage is fifty percent they've calculated that law covered just thirty four percent just eyeballing it buildings are not in the majority of that the maximum allowable building coverage is thirty percent so they're obviously well under the maximum allowable building coverage a lot coverage numbers are calculate it and are under the allowable the building coverage account numbers are not calculated by obviously well and it is allowable because the allowable based on you know i mean i was assuming i apologize i was assuming it had been something that was always done so if this is a new requirement and it's as you say obviously not a problem i'm happy with not asking for it sorry in the morning plenty of other projects as not required calculation of coverage when the obviously well under things like some divisions of farm property  and just a one time one shut for development with a certain tension for increasing his usage maybe just as a benchmark we want to see a numbers so hard hearted and reasonable request i think again it's kind of intuitive i guess that if we are where we are with impervious area which covers both you know i understand that i mean just to know for the sake of knowing is it is it a big deal i mean if we talk about a half hours at a computer we talk about going out with a tape measure the you speak it's a reasonable request it's probably you know a day of data on utilization is this different no no i think the same information if that i guess the use this particular area for is employee parking and crew parking on you can see to the north of this facility which is to the left side of the to relocate that forty five last just off the page where you can see a corner of the lot right there that's also additional overflow capacity so as we planned for the displacement of this parking facility and this cutie facility here we knew that we were going to have to displace those employee and crew parking and just to cover  every little corner and there's also what we call law which is just adjacent to the parking garage that also is for oversized that is a public parking lot paid public parking and six secured but that also is in an area that we can use for employing crew parking if we absolutely need to bit if you can there so you can see that so there you go so right at the at the bottom of the page if you will which is on the airport drive side of the site the planning so you see there are  proposed new ones so there is an effort being made to add some landscaping to screen the project from the from the street so that's being done there to meet the budget however the landscaping budget we're proposing to do what was approved the last time which is to provide some of the make up for that landscaping on the other side of airport drive so if you can scroll down to the next sheet maryla there there are two locations where landscaping was approved previously up left is at the corner  of streets not label on there clearly but that is what street and airport drive airport drive extension and there's some landscaping proposed right at the self the end of that gravel parking lot which is used by  rent allegiances so we're trying to coordinate slightly with with the use of the this particular project is that that upper left drawing that that's still on airport park on airport property on the newly acquired residential logs yes os it's across the street was a street from the from the top left is across the street well it's across the street but it's doesn't the airport property airport by the properties that are across the street so it's the same entity that owns all of us you know ok let me let me see if i can sort out what the thing up is that we have here if what we're the corner of willis to road in an airport drive because we needed to get it on the parcel i don't recall what the job was that we were doing at the time i think i want to say it was that little building that like like a request to rezone those properties to eventually put those into a single part of the airport proper sort of being shot down on that idea  i mean it may be the city wants to push it with that i don't know what they have for this but the plan to the problem would like to see someone to shut up about that and just think about a way to allow the most flexible like out of curiosity and my apologies if this is off track a little bit if if this isn't allowed how do we proceed with a landscaping budget if it can't fit on that site itself or should we ask whether to request the applicant to provide noise level for us so strongly do we feel i think we've got a letter from a neighbor who we're getting concerned about arrivals after midnight correct absolutely if i may add some more detail to the actual building so our hope is in and the plan to design this is to contain all of that noise as well as the full operation within obviously this building so we have built high speed doors on both ends so this is going to be a shot if you will operation but just to add on to it a little bit more this is not a different use than what we currently have there today right hand you promise to tell the truth the whole truth and nothing but the truth on the penalty of perjury thank you very much identify yourself again my name is nick longo deputy director of aviation for the burlington international airport and john consulting and we have a description of the site plan very quickly read to land development projects that do not require subdivision or qualify as they plan to have development or eligible to review the site should be directed to the chair the board may choose to continue the meeting to a later date if there are questions that remain to be examined a future date will be announced prior to leaving his side of the evening at the end of the hearing the board will vote on whether to close the hearing and once close to a decision on the site plan within forty five days the decision will be mailed to the applicant and to those who have identified themselves as an interested person on the sign up sheet that goes around if northfield the board's decision is made within thirty days the decision is final portions of this in the past on previous projects and portions of what we call our taxiway golf also on previous projects the reason i'm excited for this the first time in the history of the burlington international airport we're going to have a full parallel taxiway which we've never had before on our main runway this provides a substantial amount of efficiency safety nation with our air traffic control partners in the tower and and while we've completed two of the three portions already of this project this portion that we're presenting to you today is the final completion the canal action so to speak from the north to the south to connect those areas as part of this project there is going to be presented before you a holding bay is what we call it this this allows aircraft which is this in the main picture on the top of the right area this allows aircraft to simply go to the side of the the road if you will so the taxiway as you can imagine is where aircraft go to and go from the end of the runway back to the terminal building or wherever they're going to be parking on the airport that pull off if you were the holding back allows them to pull to the side because they don't necessarily they meaning the aircraft the pilot don't necessarily know when they can actually depart the aircraft they have to wait for air traffic controllers at their destination airport essentially to allow them to take off from there or origin airport this allows that aircraft to pull to the side wait for that departure clearance time to arrive so that other craft if there and there are as we discussed many flights approximately thirteen usually all occurring within one hour time period that we all use one end of the airport currently what we do is we actually taxi on existing  systems and hold aircraft on those taxi ways to do that we have to actually take an aircraft onto that runway an active runway and put them on to what we call currently taxiway mike which is about in the middle of the the the picture there not too relevant to the conversation only that it's not an efficient and certainly not a safe operation to have a taxiing aircraft on an active runway this completely gets rid of that the most important thing that for this particular holding back so what we're presenting to you today is that jet blast barrier to contain the jet blast from the holding bay area and there are many additions many turns many changes within the the main structure of the main part of this project the green areas not the entire project but but essentially it comprises portions of it they entire project is mostly in the in the central closest to the terminal and the crossing of our two runway systems very complicated project extremely coordination that has to take place just to get the construction in the phasing within that area the left of the project say yes there's a red line which is blown up in the bottom portion of the picture it there that red line there's actually two red lines so one of the red lines as you can see is a road the one that's that's obviously not connected to anything else that's the jet blast barrier that road is a permit a road that we use many times a day for many different reasons from vermont national guard personnel going back and forth to our airport operations staff patrolling the fence line for both security safety what we call fatah which is foreign object to read essentially garbage or things that should not be out on the airfield  perimeter road all of that is within our current fence itself which is what we call the airfield so everything on this picture is within the airfield where what is your job gary can we look at the jet absolutely so these are these are industry standard structures that are that are designed for this purpose and the airport is nixon listen to her what she said and came up with the best industry are these just as a little bit of background these are diagrams or an analysis that was developed by ph d that's affiliated with blast of workers incorporated which is a company that has perfected this product and this is a basically a graphic simulation of their their mathematical analysis that they do and the idea is to show graphically what happens to the jet glass behind the aircraft as it as it meets is to fly clear so so these we can get into the numbers if you're interested in them but i think the take away reviewed exhaustively and talked to the designer there we feel pretty good sure john can answer questions about it you know i've looked at it a lot we can answer lots of questions about it we're  those decibel levels are generally within the fence line of the airport i'm not saying you can't hear a taxing aircraft or anything like that but that the thresholds that the federal government the f a a puts out are within that and that  depicting exactly what used it just said how many times is an aircraft a part to the south versus to the north right now it's about fifty fifty but you're absolutely right it's seasonal as well so when the prevailing wind is generally from the creates that abatement nor does the actual maps that we we and the f a a produce they actually do not take into account those trees as when we create the maps so it's assuming those trees are not there it as a comprehensive plan to noise abatement however we are completing which is again regulated by the f a a what we call a noise compatibility program the first step to that step to that is to come up with with the community would the leadership of the town in any community that's impacted by the noise a compatibility program to mitigate that noise if that is  insulation program or housing in solution program then that's the route that we would have to go down to but it has to be a collaborative effort on a whole that's the only way we can get federal federal funding to do this we would be able to get federal funding to  noise as part of this project that being said though we do need your how with this jet blast barrier and i think that was one of the main concerns with this particular project we cannot proceed with this project and reverse and give you a scale of this this particular chapel as barrier this is a one million dollars price tag to this project it is it is a large project in the whole of this is approximately fifteen million dollars as a whole but this would add one million dollars to the project cost we wouldn't be able to get that reimbursement without a required condition of this site so so if this is the direction of the board we need that requirement to move forward with the it made it look as though there's only during good term absolutely that they're just blessed is that's a great point back it's not like they're sitting there parking and then they turn it up and everything is going right toward airport parkway point i think you as part of the last application what you did see is it is a perpendicular staging area from the last application which it's a now that is so that that i don't thrust if you will when the aircraft is waiting for that departure time is no longer pointed at the road or the fans the only time that jest at the jet blast is going to occur is when they make that turn headed reluctantly because it's not the current standard the parallel those on that you're seeing tonight is not their their current standard and they will issue a modification of standards they've told us to do this so we've not only  changed the geometry of it but we've also you know we're proposing if bored to add this to the last deflector as well so it's too significant changes that are being made here not belabor this jet blast things i like it but does it have to be that long if it's ok in the reason it's a good question jennifer the reason is because the i don't know perhaps you could go back to an earlier so the you can see that the holding bay is quite long and the reason the for the legs has to accommodate two aircraft so the way these the way the holding works is that an aircraft will pull over there they have to hold there until they are released player traffic control another plane could come up behind him the first one and he could receive his his clearance to go before the one in front of him does bends with their destination is one guy's going to coddle you may get released before the guy was going to new york so you have to have a little bit longer day to accommodate the two aircraft in this case so if the person if the aircraft in the to the right in the subway more position goes first that he's going to be deflecting his gyp west toward the barrier and it could occur further down to the right in the picture so that's that accounts for the length of it and the actual like of it is determined as a mathematical thing it's determined by you know the extent of the jet last if you will all far behind the aircraft that answer those requirements i'm assuming that in your comment that by dealing subject to f a a these adverse advisory circulars for clarity staff considers the least two potential options available to board the applicant has offered to relocate the road sixty five feet from the zoning district boundary second would be to allow the option to supplement the existing screening  buffer when an existing nonresidential used structure or a parking area is within sixty five feet of the residential district it doesn't say anything about where that buffer has to be but it does say landscape but that's evergreens fencing and or other plantings so the applicant is that well we can just be outside of that fifty five foot strip he feels a little ok with with not doing the vegetative screening and letting this is a security issue that these guys need to be relatively close to the fence line you know we've we've done when it comes to public security agents but mostly our own staff our airport operations staff to here to both security requirements of the airport as well as what we call part one thirty nine of the code of federal radiate regulations that was actually the well we need to verify that i think with blast effect is incorporated the company that doing the design this is at this stage the work that they have done for us is analytical based on the design aircraft we've given them they haven't done a site specific design meaning that they don't they haven't designed that barrier to the inch right now but all the information that they've provided this so far based on the you know the criteria that we've given them indicates it will be fourteen feet max so as we get into the the final know there's no elevation in the hills or slopes or anything like that that's going to cause significant branching oh yes board comments questions on this so right now the erosion control plans that have been developed are they're probably ninety percent design level right now and we did not have a note on there that the limit of disturbance requires continuance this year oh our comments from the public is faithful to reciting what was immaterial and leaves out what that part of the discussion was about in my opinion i would rather substitute for the first paragraph the following mission for the bubbling questioning whether the over overlay map is accurate that was not the question from the public i question whether the overlay that was accurate the up conclude and then sure paul beat around the bush for a while and eventually he said yes and then i said well in that case i object i think the neighbors objection is probably well taken but this is your first shot at it so come back next time and tell me how you comply with write it but i won't quibble about the second paragraph that's more or less what happened first paragraph i want to strike with what sue wrote and substitute the following let me take a deep breath mr copeland noted the submission from a group of adjoin property owners challenged development on the grounds that it could not be one of the requirements to section fifteen point one eight of the l t or because a portion of the area is overlain by a primary conservation area shown on that number relationship with the primary conservation area as shown on that number seven to the project which the applicants representative said he was not prepared to do and as much as he was seen sketch for the first time at the request of the chairman the director of development mr connor testified that the sketches act mr kaufman told the applicant that in that case based on his understanding of the applicable will his impression was that he had joined his objection is well taken i propose to substitute