changed the meaning of this the timing of this meeting this morning because of presentation for the joint houses at eleven o'clock and we wanted to make sure that we had adequate time for you to get your presentations in and and hopefully adequate number of questions and i will proceed with my opening statement and ask you know animas consent when the ranking member comes in that we interrupt what proceedings are going on if it's appropriate to have his opening remarks saying no objection will stand i'd like to extend a warm welcome to all five witnesses thank you for being here today in testifying before the subcommittee on energy and environment the focus of our inquiry today is the president's to two thousand and eight budget request for research and development programs in the department of energy and i know i don't have to remind anyone in this room just how high energy prices and calls for action to mitigate climate change have propelled energy to the forefront of public debate in the last  years our nation's energy challenges are momentous and incredibly diverse and i'm pleased to see that the president's budget request for f y o eight takes a number of important steps and even some grand leaps in pursuit of technological solutions to these challenges however one can't help but notice serious gaps in r and d funding for certain programs while resources are lavished on some high profile research areas other valuable programs are to languish in a time of intense challenge it is important that we keep all possibilities on the table for instance in the president's budget hydrogen solar and cellulosic ethanol are beneficiaries of major funding increases but this is encouraging but this encouraging trend is offset by large cuts in and flat funding of equally valuable programs in areas such as geothermal hydro power ocean wave power advanced grid technologies and even on gas research for them while the administration continues its trend of slashing funds for valuable inner g efficiency programs that he states that help states low income  consumers industries vehicle manufacturers and even the federal government use energy more efficiently efficiency must be regarded as another valuable source of energy after all the cheapest cleanest most secure  is the energy you never have to produce it all enormous opportunities exist to increase the efficiency intelligence and security of the nation's electricity grid without simply erecting more towers and stringing more wire however the nation has not deployed these technologies widely yet and research and development funding in many of these related programs has been cut in this budget request did ministration request a very aggressive increase in funding for our nuclear energy primarily fund global nuclear energy partnership g n e p carbon free nuclear energy may very well play a vital role in addressing our climate crisis and it is clear that issues of waste disposal have have to be resolved but the department must convince this congress and the public that the billions it will cost to implement the program is a ploy a fleet of these technologies is warranted and conduct full systems analysis for g n e p i am particularly disappointed to see that for the second year in a row the administration insists on ignoring pax two thousand and five by failing to carry out vital research and development into ultra deep water and unconventional drilling technologies this illustrates a fundamental misunderstanding that both of what the program is intended to do and the need to expand domestic resources of fossil fuels i'd like to acknowledge the special role of the office of science with india although sometimes overlook in the  integrator energy debate the office of science as the leading federal sponsor of research in the physical sciences plays a critical part in our nation's scientific and technological competitiveness the office of science has a long standing rol in steward of large world class scientific research facilities however construction and operation of facilities has come at the expense of funding for actual research at these facilities i'm glad to see a doctor or bach plans to put this back on track furthermore as apartment pursues plans for additional large scale scientific solti's demonstrably measures should be taken to assure due diligence in areas of cost estimates and design this gives everyone a higher level of comfort when multi billion dollar research machine such as the i'll see are proposed to congress the f y o eight request makes a commitment to the office of science that is essential to maintaining our economic competitiveness drawing a solid step forward however it is important that that step forward benefit all worthwhile programs not just a few high profile exciting ones today's witnesses find themselves at the crossroads of intense political pressures and a technological cutting edge and probably spend much of their time trying to reconcile the two never an easy to get task again we thank them all and look forward to hearing their testimony today and at this time a call on member mr inglis for his  chairman i got relief from the american legion and now i'm here and i thank you for holding this hearing and i thank you witnesses for being here there's a difference seems to me between simple spending and thoughtful investing and that's what i hope we're here to discuss today simple spending just doesn't it's maybe good it creates an immediate impact but investing creates returns in the future in so i'm very grateful for the work of the department of energy in on these kind of investments it really could change the game for us so as we discuss the  in the budget today we're really acting more as investors here investors who are looking at alternative fuel industries for example and seeing the payoff that they could produce for us and we realize that we have a great need to break free of an addiction to oil and some of the work that you all are doing could help make that happen so we were certainly some of these decisions about what fuels will work and that sort of thing and trust markets mostly it's also true that some basic research needs to be done every american i think wants to do is improve the national security united states i no longer being dependent on the middle east second klim of the air because the missions would be water and third create jobs it's an example of what exciting things can happen when people put money into research and so we're looking forward to hearing your suggestions about how to do that thank you mr chairman i thank the ranking member if there are other members who wish to submit additional things statement your statements will be added to the record at this time i'd like to introduce our witnesses dr remen orbach undersecretary for science with the office of science mr alexander  secretary for energy efficiency and renewable energy mr tom shelp assistant secretary for fossil energy mr dinh aspersion is the assistant secretary for nuclear energy and finally mr kevin called our director of the office of electricity delivery and energy reliability at the department of energy is our what this is should know spoken testimony is limited to five minutes each and after which each of the members of the committee will have five minutes to ask questions and we'll start with  chairman lamson mr chairman congressman inglis on members of the committee i'm grateful for the opportunity this morning to discuss the president's fiscal year two thousand and eight budget request for the office of science i want to thank you mr chairman mr inglis for your kind remarks about basic research and the office of science the do you see office of science as the primary agency in the federal government for energy related basic research the office interfaces with the department of energy is applied research programs represented by my colleagues here this morning hong which our nation will rise for both energy security and national defense our goal is to underpin the applied research programs with the finest basic science and at the same time to energize our basic research within science and opportunities from advanced applied research  science discoveries are essential to the success of the department's efforts and hydrogen solar power and biofuels we are one department and we have been working very hard together on strengthening the relationship between the departments post sick and applied research programs let me say a few words this morning about the critical role that basic science plays in addressing our nation's energy challenge two examples and plants developing new methods on processes actually found in nature to create the breakthroughs that we need for example our deal we join genome institute announced this week in conjunction with ethanol cost effective second consider intermittent sources of energy such as wind and solar and title the key to base load electrical contributions from these renewable sources is wreck trick energy storage in april of this year will bring together leading scientists and people from industry for a major workshop to chart a transformational path forward for electrical energy storage expensive ring supercapacitors and other innovative approaches based on the latest advances in materials and tech and then a technology to change the way we think about electrical storage solving this problem an enabling key for renewable energy to make major contributions to electric baseload generation these are examples of our mission in the office of science investment in basic research to generate transformational scientific breakthroughs for a nation supporting transformational research also means providing cutting edge scientific facilities the right can national laboratories that will allow scientists from universities in the private sector to do the analysis that will give them advantages over their colleagues in other countries thereby contributing to american competitiveness it means educating training and sustaining a world class scientific work force thousand strong twenty five thousand five hundred supported by the office of science and f y alright budget in laboratories and universities across our nation for the sake of our country's future we are not doing this in a vacuum other nations are increasing their investment in basic science because they know that those who dominate science will dominate the twenty first century global economy to remain competitive we cannot afford to fall behind other nations in r and d to remain competitive the president's fiscal year two thousand and eight budget request for the office of science is four point four billion dollars  the department of energy's appeaser g s office of nuclear energy the office of nuclear energy has it has made great a great deal of progress in the last several years in advancing our nation's energy energy energy energy security and independence in students we have also made steps forward toward in developing advanced nuclear reactor and fuel cycle technology like geology as well maintaining a critical national nuclear infrastructure twenty five years the equivalent of forty thousand font size to fifty one one thousand megawatt nuclear reactors must be built just to maintain campaign that twenty industry has not been heavily salaciously supported financially or politically over the past thirty years today today the need for increased elect elect elect electric generating capacity is clear clear clear and eight budget request one hundred hundred fourteen million dollars for the nuclear power twenty twenty ten program to support the port to port continued cost share her or her efforts with industry to reduce the barriers to stimulate the deployment of new nuclear power power plants in the united states with nuclear power as the only proven base baseload producer of electricity for a city that does not emit green greenhouse gases it around around around the world a closed here still cycle will also alleviate some of the burden placed on yucca mountain and the possibly and lately and eliminate the need for a second second geologic repository tours of troy throughout the wanting to use nuclear power to mark to meet their domestic growth in electricity demand without the thought that the cost and risk a so associated with nuclear fuel fuel fuel cycle infrastructure by providing these expansion of nuclear power we remain confident that incident and optimistic about about the role of nuclear energy and providing a solution to our nation's energy stability and independen thank you for the opportunity to tell you tell you testify on the president's fiscal year two year two thousand and eight budget request for the off the off the off the office of energy efficiency and renewable energy the requesting quest includes one point two four billion in free approximately receive an increase in funding under the c r as you know and i'm grateful to congress for its strong commitment to energy efficiency and renewable energy programs a budget request address pressing energy energy energy security economic and environmental challenges facing racing they sing our country today excel excel excel made in the development of renewable energy energy and energy efficiency technology our georgis will maximize rapid rational you lose th we power our homes offices offices and vehicles and he and his and his two thousand and seven seven seven state of the union address the president raised the bar further by challenge allen challenge allen ging our country to reduce gasoline filling sling consumption by twenty percent ten ten tent in within the decade and advocated the twenty and twenty in ten plan the budget repeat repeat repeat request increased funding for programs graham's plans to help the nation achieve the twenty twenty twenty and ten goal including f fuel fuels r and d and expanding the availability of alternative transportation fuel fuel fuels we must work to not only accelerate our and even deeper new energy technologies catalyze the rapid commercialization addition to deployment of critical energy energy energy advances through innovative partners are no ships with lenders and investment that's my that's my groups with our state department partner partners and with industrial leaders million million an increase of approximately thirty million dollars bio mass is the most viable renewable option for produce produce producing liquid transportation fuels will in the near term holding grain grain great potential to help for converting those sugar sugar sugars and ethanol but for the vehicle technologies program the department part of the problem is requesting one hundred seventy six to sixty six point one million to advance development and of increasingly energy efficient and environmentally friendly flexible platform technologies a g s a g s for our cars and trucks the the program focuses on technologies that he's that he's that use significantly less oil and enable the auto industry history history to comply with reform or more than modernize cafe standards it's battery technologies have made may have made significant progress towards our program for program goals having reduced the use they use to use the cost of next generation hybrid hybrid bridge vehicle batteries in each of the past past past three years from almost twelve twelve in the next six to school year to six hundred twenty twenty twenty five dollars per vehicle and two and two and to increase our emphasis on batteries specifically optimized for plug in hybrids e r e six to have battery battery technology ready no later than two thousand and fourteen that will enable auto manufacturers to widely and economically produce competitive plug in hybrid hybrid vehicles having a forty mile all electric range hydrogen two thousand and seven budget request west the proposed increase will accelerate and expand the efforts for its parts to research and develop hydrogen storage systems and improve performance and fuel cell material period period periods and components to reduce their costs  kilowatt in two thousand and six a major step toward towards the ultimate cost target of thirty dollars per kilowatt for commerce commerce commercial production for solar energy the budget resit request is one hundred forty eight point three million three million a level graham which target targets a long term goal of cost cost cost neutral net zero energy energy buildings houses that predict produce as much energy as they as they use on an annual basis since by two thousand and twenty so that didn't domestic emission free clean energy maybe may one day contribute up to twenty percent cent of our national generation portfolio foleo our industrial techno technologies program leverage is its innovative technology transfer practice actress's and highly successful part of par partnerships with energy intensive industries histories as well as supporting develop develop development of next generation technologies it's to revolutionize u s investors just industrial processes including those for nano nano manufacturing that ultimately enhance our electricity delivery system mysticism and hand and hand and hand to the security reliability of america's energy infrastructure and the transfer and facilitate recovery from disruptions options options to energy supply the functions are vital to the part of the part of the problem of energy strategic goal of protect our type protecting our national and economic security you're a curator by promoting a diverse and resupply and delivery of reliable bill of affordable and environmentally responsible energy million p n p and billion for research and development activities it is it is eleven point six million for apple operations and analysis activity to the titties and seventeen point four million million million for a program direction i'll primarily address the act the activities of always energy storage and power electronics and when noble and distributed systems systems systems integration the development of these advanced vast vast electricity technologies will influence will influence the future of all aspects of that so that so the electric transmission and distribution system first activity i'd like to highlight in life is one to which the deal we has made along a long term commitment this is this is the science and development of high temp attempt temperature super little wind laws superconductivity that he that he therefore holds the promise of the lever leave alleviating capacity concerns while moving power reliably apply ability and efficiently another critical piece piece of a energy storage store storage and power electronics activity city is a midterm research search endeavor to significantly reduce trance transmission system congestion manage peak loads and make renewal the new all new level lecture city sources more disorders more dispatch understand stand standing for previous energy storage damage demonstration activities we are researching and developing new advanced dance dance to higher energy density materials and storage devices for you to utility scale application the program also focuses on research and power electronics to extract strikes to improve material and device advice properties that are needed for transmission emission emission level applications finally in fiscal year two thousand and seven the very and it is two thousand and seven state of the union address president bush emphasized side size the importance of continuing to change change the way america generates electric public public power and highlighted the signet significant progress we've already made in an integrated clean coal technology  solar and wind energy and clean safe nuclear energy into the electric transmission such and such an system technologies such as power electronics high temperature super conduct on activity and energy storage for insurance hold not only the promise of lower cost cost and greater efficiency but also directly enhanced via by a viability of clean energy resources says by addressing issues such as inches inches intermittency controllability and environmental impact we cannot say not simply rely on innovative policy aussies and infrastructure investment we must also invest federal dollars dollars dollars in the research development and deplete deplete deployment of new technologies and he's and he's in order to improve grid performance  eight hundred sixty three million dollars dollar budget request for fiscal year two year to year two thousand and eight will allow the office to support the put the president's top initiatives for and for energy security clean airy air climate change and checks and coal research as well as well as well as deal he strategical protect or temper tech in our national an economic success make security by promoting a diverse first first first supply and delivery of real a real of reliable affordable and environmentally sound all the energy and more than more than more than half of the electricity produced produced produced in the united states because coal is so important for important to our energy future op i proposed budget of four hundred feet in front and forty eight million for the president and coal research initiative related fuel cell r and d program direction accounts for it accounts for more than half of arc of our total budget our overarching goal is to conduct research and development event that won't prove the competitiveness of domestic coal in future energy markets allowing the nation to tap the fourth the fourth the fourth the first potential of its abundant fossil also energy resources and in environmentally sound and afford affordable manner this year's request completes its its its three years ahead of schedule the president's commitment to invest two billion dollars on clean clean clean coal research over cost shared program between the government and industry three three to demonstrate emergent tech and technologies in coal based pop out power generation so as to help to help to help accelerate commercialization action work on promise promis technologies selected in tune tune to prior solicitations we will continue in fiscal year two thousand and eight and we plan to announce now counts at third solicitation during the year the first of a kind high priority future gen project ejecta ject will stablished the capability and feasibility of co producing electricity and hydrogen from coal oil with near zero atmosphere work economic not acknowledge the development supporting future gen gen is embodied in our fuels and power systems program the programs proposed budget for fiscal year two thousand and eight the goal is to achieve substantial general market penetration after twenty twelve and in the long term the program is a come as the come is expected to contribute significantly to the president's goal of develop develop develop developing technologies  established by dia we into in two thousand and three work will continue their important work including vital diverse geologic c o two susu storage tests research and development carried carried out by the co to hydrogen fueled prosperous program funded at a proposed was deposed ten million dollars will make will make will make the future transition to a hydrogen based economy possible by reducing the costs and increasing the efficiency of hydrogen production from coal hole we have a quote unquote requested sixty two million dollars for us for f y two zero zero eight it's it's it to continue the important work of this of this of the solid state energy conversion align aligned alliance the goal of which is will continue to carry out the out important responsibilities in the oil natural gas sector doctor such as management of the on the on the on the ultra deepwater an unconventional regional regional regional resources research program mandated by the energy policy for the record i think it's under ten over the last twelve twelve twelve years what about one ok that sounds about right the central air conditioning and heating and heating and heat pumps twenty one out of six to  this you know even without being being sworn in and it's a felony to mislead or not tell the truth to a congressional committee so let me just ask you if you commitment for twenty five million dollars where george ear and the understanding that we have is that after the five years we will assess sas whether they have been successful it's a new concept you're say earlier you seem to be on top of your game and i hope this will be sickly sickly successful thank you for joining us today i think  anything it's going to get rid reserves that are known mire it involves technology from some some scoots and universities it's more of a real research bail than it is an energy echnology to get some of it doesn't couldn't cost anybody anything it's not a gift to exxon or the big people because they're not the ones that really look for it and they can buy their own technology if they want to  pretty well agrees with me now i guess what i want to ask you and i know you know you know your budget calls for the repeal of the or deepwater water non conventional own show a recent recent research and development program few that would increase supply and pay for sex sex after you increase royalties i just don't know any way but better it's going to get over a billion dollars more in twitter twitter twitter yours and we have to spend for it fought for it and we get time and i don't think we'll have a lot of representation from over there but i just you know it pays for itself in them till that happens it's revenues that will be going going going towards the program so we have submitted that admitted legislation to repeal that provision of the pact once once and once again this year that that being said we fully  nation believes that there is adequate incentives particularly with the current current current price of oil or industry to take to invest in this recent research and development while there certainly this program certainly there's other incentives to have that have to have that work accomplished aside side from using taxpayer dollars to do it sucks so it's the belief that there is inadequate research being done by those five was a major breakthrough relevant to have to start importing to eliminate some of the barriers that have been standing in the when the way of having a nuclear power power there's been an uncertainty of the regulatory process for and when you're talking about major major three to four billion dollar invest best months you you've got to have pretty good certainty that if you start down this path and try to find out i know it's this kind of a project that you are in fact in fact going to policy that protects the sponsor against regulatory and or litigation and delays were reactor type standardization ation is something that we have need of needed in this industry that's something the thing the thing that we now do have and we are support for port porting what that apartment has been it's been it's being is really a catalyst for leveraging public money money to get some of the environmental issues issues shoes off the table but for the major commitment that's for funds are made and then finally the last piece of this puzzle is to provide we do we do see these technologies in use today in this in limited applications there is a lot more work that needs to be done the office of electricity delivery and and the office of science so that is that's consistent with a decrease in the budget well with risk risks respect to energy storage her or her it is can skin system with the increase proposed by the twenty five percent of center cent of our nation's electrolyte electrical energy can be produced from geothermal sources if this is in the united states and this would form a baseline line suppose some of the  y story can conventional geothermal technology that has been the focus focus of the program and legacy of a program is not it's not applying to the enhanced geothermal thermal thermal systems attenti very profitably by participants in the market the market the market the marketplace largely based on the energy policy act provisions indians indians in policy engaged in greater development and exploitation of nation of the conventional geothermal we will not foreclose on the and we'll just encourage you to to look at potential insurance sustainability because you know the fact that you can do it doesn't mean that you're going to have your so much of energy energy energy in the future we still have to  rather stupidly citing them where we have to use drugs drinking water and cooling towers to distance to dissipate precious energy most of the new plants that are being considered today are located designed to be located a pipeline planned to be located i should say at the site of existing reactor actor facilities most of our react react reactor sites where a ridge percent which will have to have to do better than that that shrinks to eighty five years if you assume some of that energy to convert the current the coal into a liquid or a gas you know you now shrunk to fifty years and and and since energy is now fungible and it wasn't all that moves on a world market if we share our fifty years years of close just two percent increase three streets with the world that shrinks that that's what a twelve and a half years that's that's not much funds for r and d for these superconducting being cavities and the other l o l elements that would go into the internet international linear collider we are in the pen the process of developing an in graham and that really does work worry me as you know i'd be a lot more comfortable with the audio he's planned if the the the department had completed a kind of comprehensive systems we we do need to get going and and and that's the whole point of the program graham graham we are conducting a comprehensive incidence of systems analysis some of the decisions some relative to precise ice scale  will be an outcome that i think we are proceeding with the general generic environmental impact statement programatic environmental impacts that states that statement in order to try to move the process fast forward and we're engaging part of this budget and to end ten tests that will demonstrate great the entire process but there are other pieces of the program graham graham because there are some some of them that are to existing facilities like some excitement some of the chat i know you have visited systems analysis it can be people you don't these facilities can be done you don't in a modular fashion that allows us to get started and expand to come to commercial scale as we go so  carter carter briefly i was pleased to see to see to see the president's budget when it came to solar i believe it leaders about eighty one percent increase forty eight million million million dollars coming from arizona  a formation all hearing for everyone here and here in our witnesses have given this committee a better under under understanding of the always plans and priorities for the coming year if there is no objection the record record will remain open for our additional statements from