findings nobody is going to condone it but the sentence he received as of today of doing thirty years isn't that similar to what we get new jersey thirty years of life for a homicide premeditated homicide submitted nine p c orus he is relentless in wanting to be heard i do not blame him he is confused as to a couple of issues what happens at the end of the day what happens when mr evans has reached is reasonable expectation of his credit the amount of credit that he's achieved as an inmate i think there's a case that came out about a year ago i believe it's called pepper in which institutional credit is a distinction because i think what's before us is an extremely legal and esoteric issue if you will as to not only the foreseeability or unforeseeable of the delaware courts doing something but also when they finally decided what they wanted to do we would have to determine that what they did was basically on an reasonable so you have a couple of very legal esoteric  go through that impact on this very practical problem i agree it all comes down to one item know what to do with evidence but i agree with the court there are certain issues or elements that have to be addressed before we get there they're all comes down to prison provisions as separate it would seem that the fact that they would come up with the reading that they were separate and not that the forty five years was not controlling on the other provision was at least forseeable tell me how it is it well one apply to mr evans at the time is arguably would had an opportunity to get paroled but instead it went further and as a result my client the not reached forty five year quote unquote life sentence as a result at the time as your question now you talked about forsee ability i'm interested in what point of time should you should we be judging perceived building going to be the time in this conviction no judge i believe if they think it's the time that evan's one was was rendered why is that cause and evans one we didn't we didn't know what was going to happen with words with my client relative to a life sentence and what the interpretation application of a life sentence was in delaware we do know it means perhaps arguably forty five years i could state that new jersey represent that it's in some change sixty six and one third years that is a life sentence in new jersey in delaware arguably it's forty five years if that's the case my client if he did get his foreseeable jail term credit or inquest aeration institutional credit would now as we speak be eligible arguably for pepper that if he was to do valuable good meaningful things while institutionalized he would ultimately benefit if given the opportunity my client did not in the sense that but that's that's what you seem to be going down the road  given the facts of this case the sentence per say he has to have some type of knowledge some type of actual number that he has an expectation where he's working from and you work from and work down by doing positive things meaningful things as an inmate otherwise there is absolutely no motivation for any inmate to do anything meaningful whether be talk to school kids talk to high school kids talk to anybody as  turned and say don't wind up like me don't go out and do something when you're eighteen years of age and spend the rest of your life in prison like i'm about to i think he doesn't know he is unsure is unsure if life is life  unsure if life is forty five years i don't know i think court has made that decision and if it is in fact forty five years is that my client now eligible for parole if the court grants him some good time as i have been pepper my client now on a limited remand to the delaware supreme court that would be eligible here's the hero here's the problem with that argument lisa and i would say is that this is an s b made by the delaware supreme court and that's why i'm asking you're on a to put a limit hold on hold on for a second they made their decision evans three they made their decision saying that evans too was correct and they did in ev three you're asking us under the law if he has to say that their decision was on reasonable and i don't know what we base that on we base it on the fact that the army what the file i don't think is important thing it's the it's the length or the gist of the argument and here is a man that i have to call back tonight and say i don't know what's going to happen i know you've done quote unquote the maximum you could of done now that you're in state court and i'm in federal court arguing your case and the federal courts were interested enough to hear your case sir but i don't know what life in delaware is i don't know if it's life i don't know if it's forty five years i know what it is if this crime happened in new jersey but i can't tell you what it is in delaware we won't know perhaps for a while i'm asking the courts to have a limited remain and act delaware that's the relief i'm seeking  remand back to delaware for the delaware courts to determine what is life in delaware is it life is it forty five years because if it's life it's in essence a death penalty to my client placed court good afternoon deputy attorney general gregory smith on behalf of the warden phelps and attorney general pyne word evans never had an expectation of good time credits for the that's where the forty five years comes into play or the because obviously on a life sentence that being an indefinite term in order to calculate a parole eligibility date the statute provides that for parole purposes life means forty five years that's a calculation that's a reason for reason occupation it's by statute forty five years and then that forty five years is also  the eligibility date is also reducible by good time and that was statutory good time and that's how the it was the end so what it means is at the end of one third of forty five years or fifteen years there is an eligibility for parole and a pro board could if they wanted to consider a pro up occasion if one were made that's almost entirely correct your honor if i may just qualify that it was actually even shorter than saying this the confusion was between good time applied on a roll eligibility date in good time applied on a statutory loser nice application for specific data off the top of my hair position that this is that section would were three forty six is is only option to get out of jail that's pressure on her and so he he does have the possibility of getting out that's not  the representation by if i counsel that this is in effect he can never get out and that's simply not true so i just want to make sure the court is aware there's something wrong with not having your disagree so you think that there's something wrong with not having life term in terms of number of years is there anything wrong with that absolutely not your honor i mean delaware sense is we the forty crimes after the effective date the truth in sentencing act so the inmates in delaware who are affected by this scenario were the pre inmates sentenced to life impact of pepper i do not know what pepper is i apologize for saying that your honor i i did not see that in the briefing and i well i'm not sure i can comment intelligently on that case i'm hoping and obviously a this court cannot remain and that's not an option available to your honor's you're reviewing the decision of the district court to novo but that decision is looking at what took place in the delaware state courts and obviously the apple e's principle position is that really we're not even talking about a constitutional claim that two fifty four a we're talking about a state law claim that being how does the state of delaware interpret its own sentencing statutes and here while the events of two thousand and four and two thousand and five in mr evans case certainly complicated things it's at the end of the day that was the decision of the delaware supreme court interpret into our statutes  if the court has questions and certainly prepared to answer all right thank you very much mr cole i don't think you reserve for rebuttal or did you interpreted in respect to delaware he has an opportunity for parole if he can use eligible for parole if he can convince the parole already so let him out correct if if he's if he's seen before the