conservation commission was called in to investigate he is joining us now lieutenant brown good morning to you nice to visit with the morning give us a sense you get to this house in florida around the state it's become a big issue but when you get there and you see and also some of the administrative issues that we have to address permitting in recordkeeping and other things of that nature as we've noted in florida there's been a lot of issues about pythons across the state a mother and her boyfriend were recently charged with third degree murder after   over five thousand have been imported via miami over the last three years i had no idea the extent to which this has been going on really shocking but despite recent everett's by the state of florida to limit better track these potentially dangerous snakes have been reported in florida's wild lands although uncertainty remains regarding their actual population and this was staggering to me an estimated one hundred thousand one hundred thousand wild burmese pythons are living in south florida's natural wildlife areas such as everglades national park unfortunately many of these potentially dangerous animals are not always kept in a safe or secure manner and they often escape from their cages or aquarium when pythons escape they can be a huge danger to the surrounding human population according to the media reports at least twelve people  two year old girl in her bedroom in response to this growing problem members of the florida delegation got together to cap crap this bipartisan bill which bans the imports of pythons in this country the language of the animals to the codified portion of the late a law that dates back to nineteen hundred and is primarily used to prevent the importation or spread of potentially dangerous non indigenous in the united states there was some opposition from reptiles to the original language of h r twenty eight eleven as introduced those opposed the bill felt that a ban on the import of all signs was far too broad a markup of the bail mr rooney  an amendment that would limit the jobs that would fall under the ban the amendment was adopted by the committee but i did ask for this hearing so members get alarmed more about it and i have already learned a great rayney persistence in this matter and i'll look forward to more information we get thank you for the statement placed in the record but the gentleman from florida has been so active in this area will make an exception and allow save this threatened habitat to ensure the survival of the native wildlife but sadly an invasive predator threatens all the progress that we have made the burma has no natural predators in the florida everglades they even prey on native adult alligators you may have seen the famous picture of a huge python that attempted to eat a six foot alligator this is the reality there we are facing in south florida today the thousand burmans pythons currently living in the everglades these predators can grow six to eight in a single year and prey on waiting birds and other wildlife we are working so diligently they thrive on our sub traffic climate and abundant food resources in two thousand and six the south florida water management district bought a petition with the u s fish and wildlife to have bernie's pythons listed as an injury species under the la just so i'm clear they petitioned for this three years ago this june in that time thousands more burma's pythons have been imported into the united states and more damage has been done to the ecosystem of south florida not only are these deadly predators wreaking havoc on the everglades but earlier this year we heard the tragic news news reports of a two year old who was strangled in her crib while she slept by a pet burmese python this past summer a seventeen foot bernese python was found and killed in okeechobee florida which is in my district for those not familiar with this area this city is north of lake okeechobee and over one hundred miles north of everglades national park the snakes pose a real threat to health and human safety and should be listed under the we've been for three years for the fish and wildlife issue a decision three years is too long we cannot wait anymore and too much is at risk my fellow delegation member mr kendrick meek who's here today introduced h r two thousand and eleven to legislative legislatively do what we have been waiting for three years for the fish and wildlife to do ban the further importation of these dangerous snakes h r two thousand and eleven will help us fight the growing problem of burmese pythons at the source by keeping them from entering our country is a piece of the solution and a very important piece i might add and i thank the members for joining us today i was very pleased with the recent u s g s risk assessment of nine large species of pythons anacondas and about constrictor the risk assessment confirmed what we have long feared the nine forward determined to have a medium risk of a stablish mn and five which includes the berm e s and the african rock were found to have a high risk of while this puts us one step closer to a fish and wildlife determination time continues to pass and with more of these dangerous predators being imported h r two thousand and eleven is not a silver bullet to ending the problem in south florida it's a vital step towards reaching that goal we must stop the further introduction of these snakes while we continue to work to eradicate them from the everglades i look forward to i look forward to hearing from today's mine here before congress and i mr rooney i want to thank him for all of his hard work on this legislation bipartisan i have a couple of illustrations here that i want to show because i believe the members of the committee have of a very important conservation issue being an executive branch agency we generally prefer to allow administrative processes to run their course but today we're here to support twenty eight eleven as reported and also to recommend amending the legislation to include all nine of the large constrictor in light of the recently released u s geological survey risk assessment we believe that the burmese python and the other large constrictor present a clear and urgent threat the burmese python population estimate is now in the tens of thousands putting a variety of imperiled and the everglades ecosystem at risk but burmese pythons are not the only concern these other species of large are breeding in the everglades now including boa constrictors and northern african python others pose a similar risk given the value of the everglades system its biological diversity and the potential threat to other ecosystems and all nine large constrictor snakes will be trapping and other control technologies we lack the capacity to detect the snakes in the wild we lacked adequate science management and regulatory tools to prevent the further introduction and spread  of predators therefore we believe that immediate action is appropriate and we urge the subcommittee to take that action in june two thousand and six the service received a request from the south florida water management district to enable a rigorous assessment of risk and potential impacts to the everglades and other ecosystems as a result in two thousand and seven the fish and wildlife service and the national park service partnered to jointly fund the risk assessment for these nine large constrictor considered invasive or potentially invasive in the united states of the nine constrictors assessed as was noted before five were shown to pose a high risk system health including the anaconda were shown to pose a medium risk none of the large constrictors that were assessed was classified as a low risk in addition to the risk assessment the service published a notice of inquiry in january two thousand  biological economic and other data related to the potential of adding these large to the list of injurious wildlife over fifteen hundred responses the services using this information and the risk assessment in our ongoing evaluation of whether these should be considered as injurious under the law we're completing economic analysis and documentation required under the national environmental policy act we expect film these animals can be valued at over one hundred thousand dollars for individuals millions of dollars flow into the national economy from the reptile industry an interconnected with all levels of economy purchase of equipment dry goods betting  money into u s manufacturing millions of dollars go to support american culture with purchases of food grain rodents bedding etc millions of dollars more support airlines and parcel ship reptile industry in the united states accounts for eighty two percent of the world's oil export and trade in quality captive bred reptiles thousands of american small businesses and their employees depend on the reptile industry and there would be a great loss of jobs if bill was to  members have been intrinsic in the creation of the pipe the removal program and in coordination with florida fish and wildlife in south florida we were the first to be licensed to remove pythons from state lands in south florida us are actively appealed to the u department of interior to open a everglades national park to removal program modeled on the florida program we do not believe should be released back into the park for any reason u s arc is also offered up ten thousand dollars u s mission wildlife service behaviors predation etc unfortunately in our view the federal government has failed to capitalize on the pool of knowledge and experience to most effectively address the issue of feral burmese pythons in everglades national park in florida beyond the invasiveness of the burmese python it is our fear that the issue is becoming overly politicized in media driven creating a situation where we selectively interpreted the this is an issue area especially in this that isn't especially well known and thus lends itself to misinformation an over generalization us our guest today there are over four million dollars in captivity in the united states today this is not just about imported animals this is about animals existed in the united states for over thirty years and will continue to exist because there are no provisions in this bill to address the number of animals that are already in captivity in the united states developing and employing best practices and accreditation and welcomes a more in depth discussion in this regard with congressional and ministry officials is our belief that the best management practices and professional standards specific to certain reptiles is what is needed not draconian measures that will only succeed in destroying a viable industry and many american background i would like to say i grew up in brooklyn new york that was my home till i was twenty two and i fell in love with reptiles not because they're all over new york sitting and they're not alligators in the sewer system in new york you never were and so these myths about these animals get distorted especially in movies but wherever whatever reason was captivated by these animals  most people don't realize that cats have some pretty potent pathogens and they give more significant terms of infection and probably dogs and feral cats are a major issue i just want to get that on on the table of what it may result in and the one thing i'm struck with this document is one end and it clearly states that upfront there's no hiding it but it's not really dwelt upon their model is full of uncertainty and it's probably more uncertainty in this document then there is and that's because the biological status of these animals in the wild is for them our most part and in the factor in the geographic distribution of an animal there are money the fact is that if you took this and layered it with all the other factors on top you would come down with a very restricted range i would expect for the burmese python and we know there is an ecological disaster in southern florida absolutely no doubt about that of the burmese python i would like to make an analogy so you can this is a good analogy t florida panther and the burma overlap to a great degree in their habitat and why is that while it's as a last wild place in south florida as florida panthers try to move north to get killed  changes and if the florida panther was just limited by climate it would be up in the adirondacks climate does not truly represent and and they've had opportunity to read over in the united states and south florida has been a disaster in a lot of ways because there are all kinds of introduced in south florida not just natural disasters and other forms of disaster in the direct care of thousands of animals at our network of rehab centers and we have a mobile veterinary clinic we really appreciate this implications of regulating for business enterprises and what you would impact on the eco system in danger to humans part of that analysis absolutely that's the main  thousands of small business owners and we're talking about people who are not they don't have a are small business people who have plowed all their money back into their projects so not quite a problem of logistics that this bill does not account for in the fact that there would be approximately four million we're not talking about import here the import is fairly insignificant to the trade reptiles as  represent it we're talking about the captive bred trade and very high quality valuable animals and there's about four million of them in captivity right now this bill makes absolutely no provision for what would happen to those animals spoken to b into a position where you have to care for many that are are not going to be of economic value to you anymore it creates quite a logistical problem and it's going to open up a can of worms what is going to happen with these animals the best tool to address that issue is the captive bred trade that's continuing to go on because we work with very sophisticated standards and we have we have worked at the state level and  north carolina where we're looking at introducing a bill into the chairman's home state of virginia in two thousand and ten south carolina as well that puts professional standards on how these animals are housed cared for safety protocols escape recovery plan type of thing so you're not talking about a casual pet in the context of these particular animals you're talking about an animal that  needs to be looked after in a certain it's required professional standards are required as a matter of state law we've also developing a national accreditation system where you could have a more uniform way to absolutely if you're not maintaining the animals at a certain level of security accounting for them with the documentation microchip being providing for prevention and recovery lost thank you very much was asking you about the economic impact on and you were talking about with regard to business i'm curious with regard to autonomy is that way into the factor of your economic impact it would congressman i think one thing that's important is we think about the economic impact is that as has been talked discussed a little bit we're talking about constrained natural environment the everglades on which the under the federal endangered species act and if we can't control the source of this source of potential threat to those then other citizens and the other economy of the state of florida comic impact of not listing them and not controlling them because then more of the burden for florida panther recovery and would start recovery everglades recovery and florida would rat recovery will fall on other aspects of the florida and mr y you are speaking of the research and regulation and the nature going into the carolinas and you know one of the one of the concerns or questions i guess i have assume that you represent an organization that supports people being able to keep as many reptiles as they want to it doesn't really affect you or most of your members because they don't live anywhere near the  e forty five species of pythons that are non native that have been released into the environment in which they don't belong but thrive and threaten to overrun the ecosystem what is it that you are recommending to your members and what aggressive proactive taking to ensure that your members who are the keeper of these are making sure that they're not being irresponsible because the reason that we have this problem is because be ok with all due respect what detail what specifically what steps proactively are you taking to make sure that your members don't quote unquote into the environment when they can't handle them anymore by restoration efforts which i know is all consuming while simultaneously having to deal with and revert resources to divert resources to dealing with the  them are in the homes of people who are the pet owners so that obviously raises some eyebrows but i think that should be left to state legislation to cover what people going on in their homes but what are we doing mr tells me that his legislation would non non native invasive species in the everglades and other places in south florida is absolutely the proper goal once they're established to try to control those populations but what we've learned with to ms perry and mr ash you say that we ought to cover all nine lot of flaws and there's a lot of uncertainty involved in it as dr jacobson testified i think you need before you start to eliminate thousands of american jobs and destroy american families but you need to seriously consider the e i think that those ownership issues probably should be addressed by legislation not federal legislation but what do you say to those who say that well i agree with there's a real countervailing issue here  to the economic agree with you congressman and you know there's no doubt there are some issues with safety maintaining these animals but they can be done in a responsible manner and you need to take a little bit of perspective although all life is precious if you look at the end involving dogs and other domestic wildlife according to the humane society of the united states there's been already this year over twenty deaths attributed to understand that but i also would place will go a long way to addressing these issues and the more public education we have in bringing more people into compliance it will reduce those numbers even more so you're talking about something which is not having  appreciate the affection that those who handle these animals well would have and would be suspicious of a regulatory scheme let me disagree with my good friend from family in a private home because a private home is also protected by the laws of this land in the constitution and we protect people from intruders when i say that the law doesn't allow intruders to open your doors and come in guns waging at you because you are protected in your home well the same thing the law should protect others from whether it is through being overwhelmed by oversized animal and and let me just say i dear and i use animal generic i know some of the specialists will tell me that snakes are obviously refined category but in any event because i don't believe that that family can contain that particular pet if you have one of this that is being measured by this group here i think we have a problem if you have one that has fifty eight fertilized eggs i think we have a major problem and what i see this legislation as doing  is add the constrictor snake of the species price on to section forty two a one of the title eighteen what is known as a late as an injury a species that would be prohibited from being shipped and imported into the united states and now i may be willing to go further because some people may find that they admire sharks certainly we know a whole array of shark incidences from the atlantic coast to the pacific ocean i live on the gulf coast not necessarily a haven but someone might want to say this is attractive i think i can handle this let me get a shark and put it in my fish tank and the question is is that a responsible thing to do so i think the question should be asked and i want to do it humanely as we regulate but at the same point i needed to realize that we have regulated a lot of things there is a second amendment that's a very volatile question to compare it to but we do have a level of regulation we want people to own weapons guns an illegal manner we are suspicious of people who pile up guns in their homes with no regulatory registration if you will so we have to be responsible so as dr jacobson in your testimony focused on the inherent uncertainty of risk and you seem hesitant to suggest congressional action when there is merely a risk as opposed to an actual problem nonetheless you would agree that there is a risk would you agree that there is a likelihood to some degree that a reading population python or one of the other constrictor snakes under scrutiny could emerge in another warm climate area in the united states do we have that possibility i'd like to if you could just answer quickly yes or no i want to get to nancy if i could because i need to have just if you would based on another paper that is contradicts this report it's south texas i'm sorry i'm sorry there was a paper published in a review journal this is not reviewed this is what we call great literature as we've gone through the scientific scrutiny of  review and such as a paper going to science or nature and there's another paper that came out that has a different model that was published and conned as in contrast to  they have a map of the u s showing the bernese python only found with suitable habitat south florida and south texas at this point in time in our history that if they begin to move around the country by way of private owners we may have some greater concern there i'm not sure there's a climate question and a habitat question but if there is no recognition that they can be both a risk and an actual problem then there is the opportunity to proliferate i know not not up north not as far as maps depicted here well i mean i lived in missouri is no way they get to let me say this might have in south florida just because of the nature of nature that troubles could come about because you move the animals or someone brings them or however it might be transport d we are all plowing new ground but i do know it poses a major safety risk and i will end on this i don't want to these are snakes that we don't want to see abuse control will have to have a multifaceted effort in order to remove them or control them in the environment for the for the species that have not have not established themselves in natural population control of it that was a big fat snake that probably could just barely move there is a certain risk but not the question was how much will it continue to grow and what is to the end they were they became well it's that actually goes back farther than probably as far as the early history of the of animals being brought into the united states dr probably