you're complaining one of the things you're focusing in on is the fact that in these meetings initially after the february ninth the leg injury he doesn't provide any accident history connecting it to work and none whatsoever but he did say that never made any complaints of back problems up until two nine zero seven in fact didn't make any complaints to admit that time they had an argument about a work issue in mr and mr mcwatters testimony was that he  if he says it but i'm hearing it for the first time during his direct examination so yeah i didn't know that mr mclaughlin was a supervisor i do know that he had mr mclarty had a discussion with mr what was and i do know that he never like a stock on this job he is bent over cutting between eighteen hundred twenty three hundred boxes persiflage cuts tops off boxes and he lifts them up and those boxes way between thirty and fifty pounds this is a repetitive and he said the first time he would have told responded i was when he did approach his immediate supervisor mr mcclaren and he told him that he was having pain and he needed help that request when he said do the best you can make do and so nothing happened he wasn't referred to anywhere he wasn't told to go back some reports of what is the view we went back and continued working but at that point it got too bad and why did you ever that day when he had this discrete incident of lifting and then he pulled this back he did fill out an incident report on the state however he went and he reportedly reported to two supervisors when one didn't listen he went over the next one's head and he said i've got to leave i'm in too much pain and i'm leaving early because of all of this repetitive work i'm doing i've asked for help i'm not getting at i can't continue and one of the supervisors did testify and his testimony was that there were some production issues that many talked to petition or about production as issues and that he had a vague recollection that he might have left because he was in pain or sick but on cross examination what he said was i don't know you probably he did talk to yes it is i'm going to start with the desperate calls for treatment while he doesn't reference that his first visit to dr volkow city is feb twenty eighth now it's very clear in the record that that wasn't the first time he sought treatment in fact his first documented call on february thirteenth was because he couldn't get into a doctor any sooner and was desperate for somebody to see him to deal with this pain he finally gets his primary care doctor to get his appointment with capacity moved up and what is the intake form say i've reference that in my records that actually have side by side on page ninety of the record the two or i'm sorry the eleven eight zero four date and the two nine zero seven day while two twenty because that's the date based on and it references both  and it references what is aggravating this problem it is working this job working eight hour shifts standing bending those are the things in there he asks about recreational activities he asks about anything else what's history given written down and d records that it's work he goes to dr bowman what history does he get well the problem originally started on a lemonade off or it's i've had back problems since that day and what is it aggravated by repetitive bending in standing same february seventh or february two thousand and five for an aggravation from all of the bending and standing and lifting your work so we believe that there is a consistent record of evidence showing that these work activities were the aggravating factor well i think that the case was pretty specific and i won't go over that that that is not described as but putting that aside let's put ourself in mr crowe person's situation he's working this job he's having increased pain goes to one supervisor says help me now because the other supervisor says i can't do this anymore i gotta go in we see these desperate calls get me medical treatment get me medical treatment i'm running out of sick days i need to justify being off work i need help this is my problem and as soon as he gets into dr cabell skew which is a huge  i think that i don't think so you know i think that at this point this is a man who's having considerable problems he's having considerable proper problems when he's at work leaves working group you group here and he connects that in his history not only an arbitration but also to his medical providers but is this a comp claim is this something i'm going to get money or is this repetitive trauma that manifests itself in related to work is that something that i'm going to be able to to get at this point i just need to save my job and so i don't think at this point that this man can be charged with knowing that i should have filled out an application for just claim it's ultimately then because he got counsel as supportive as different in the case law because they have the insidious on that because of the manifestation and because of the need to get to a doctor and lot and let him think that explain what's going on once you've given the story and everything you've done and i think dr horn at provided that explanation when he said look in november of two thousand and fourteen separate the annular tear tear he was able to get through this with conservative treatment and get back to work but this was still there and also in that lever repetitive loading we produced a scenario of subtle michael trauma that has progressed to the point that now it just can basically not handle itself in february i believe that disk essentially finally went and gave him persist so i think that's something that we need to look out what was happening inside his body and not what the doctor was able to describe when we're looking at a repetitive trauma theory and what the claimant is going through as he's discovering with well it can be four different ways i'm sure the case law that is in the state of illinois you can be for medical consultation it can be the last day you were able to go for it can be a good david disablement it can even be post termination and under the case file were encouraged to pick that day and then this date that that date was the last day he was able to work that day he threw his hands up and said my body cannot do this repetitive load anymore even though i've worked here all this time i have this yes i believe the two are reports to the supervisor saying that my body is not handling this work anymore of this repetitive lifting i need help when i'm not getting help i can't do it anymore and he gets to  again i'd go back to manifest weight here what we're looking at obviously first of all miss you know if he said he couldn't do it anymore why didn't he then insist on an incident report because you wanted one to be completed when he went to his doctors why did you need this is he starts to feel pain he says he has pain he wants to lead busy have to use the magical phrase i'm here because of a work related injury now i think what he has to do is his listen i'm having back pain and and i'd like to sitting so but there is no indication i mean the thing is is that you have to place the employer on notice of the fact that there is an injury that's one of our issues here as well as lack of any kind of notice he never placed the employer on notice i mean that was just a note from dr kelly's office documenting the conversation with m