our next cases number seventeen dash one one one six five charles o'brien versus trans america life insurance  not an expert on duty so i probably shouldn't say too much but if you if you amend a policy that has a long term long term coverage and you amended in a way that is beneficial toward the policy hold you're going to generally pay something for extra coverage or an and i'm trying to find out if there's anything in the record about whether or not here the  ok that being the case isn't it also the case under well the sick as the sixth circuit has determined ohio law that if the writer is expressly incorporated into the contract there  elected the annuity version of this contract to be paid out over a lifetime with a minimum of ten what does it matter what they're charging her she's going to get as long as she lives the ten years the charge doesn't matter right but it doesn't matter because she's getting a guaranteed stream of income for a lifetime a minimum of ten so maybe i guess you why don't you read that in conjunction with the contract which says you only get the death benefit if the in knew it and dies before the annuity date a ten year period is complete but it's silent on when the annuity and dies even if it replaces it doesn't tell you whether it's before or after and if it's silent why don't you read it consistent with the contract to make it all work  per month ok how much did she get paid over the course of her lifetime from the time the annuity payments  in x amount of money over the course of a lifetime she gets x plus amount so she's already getting more than she paid and now when she passes away you're testimony that there were no charges at point in time because immediate and new it is ation now do you think the the writer mean i believe that the writer means  cited to this there is no longer a underlying contract and not only do we have evidence in the record from the deposition of  contract there is now a payment string a life time a ten year guarantee payment stream but no underlying value to the contract and no accumulated cash two thousand and six in a district court judge says at the time he became aware of it he did nothing about so the answer is there is no cash accumulation it was stripped out there is no money o'brien paid in once she makes the it's even before the election right that the money she pays for the contract yes right the one point eight million dollars whatever it was she pays that in before she makes the election that is supposed to be an investment account that is supposed to accumulate value over time or lose money over time their stake a penny on the investment this is one she elects to have an annuity that money get stripped out as you put it of the investment accounts and the the this is what i think but if you're going to tell me if i'm right or wrong the way the economics of the industry work is that now the insurance company o'brien are each making bets it's o'brien is making a bet that she is going to live for a fair amount of time so that either if she dies before the ten year period is over her heirs will get whatever payment stream was not made rick and if she lives over the ten year period sufficiently she will have made more money than than she put in when she brought the contract the insurance company is betting that it's going to be smart enough to invest that money for itself to be able to satisfy the income stream for the annuity over the lifetime that ms o'brien is going to have and if it invest wisely it or some subsidiary or some agent will make some money somewhere because if i have those one point eight million dollars the market when haywire and trans america invested wisely and ended up with three million dollars but only pays two point two million dollars to her there's eight hundred thousand dollars left and that's not going to miss o'brian because she lived the annuity perspex now i have it right early not necessarily and for that ten years and with her good fortune another four or five years thereafter or this is o'brien could not withstanding the fact there was no