pursuant to the better really well it isn't really pursuant to committee rule twelve a any member may submit an opening statement in writing which will be made part of the permanent record i now recognize myself followed by ranking member joe wilson for an opening statement to go i personally want to thank our witnesses for being here today and participating in this very important hearing and while i'm pleased to welcome all of you i must give a particular welcome to all of you because every one of you virtually means something to me and in this but there's a woman here from my district and san pedro elementary school katherine give me who is the principal she's come a long way and  i so honored that you've come here to do this with us thank you very much today we will explore the effects of the ice raids on children of immigrant parents the u s immigration and customs enforcement known as ice is the interior enforcement arm of the department of homeland security between before two thousand and six the bush administration's record on him for some it was not particularly good according to the g a o in the fiscal year two thousand and four there were only four hundred forty five unauthorized workers arrested a drop from fiscal year one thousand nine hundred nine by eighty four percent in two thousand and five i see made about thirteen hundred works site arrests of undocumented immigrants but by two thousand and six ice had increased its in force men activities and made about forty four hundred work site arrests more than tripled the year before in december of two thousand and six ice launched operation wagon train the largest work site operation in history more than one thousand ice agents arrested about thirteen hundred people at six wi and company meat processing plants located around the country also in two thousand and six ice launched a nationwide operation called operation return to sender resulted in twenty three thousand arrests at work sites and other locations including people's homes in two thousand and seven and now in two thousand and eight work site raids and raids at other locations have continued between october two thousand and six and two thousand and seven ice raids in california resulted in the arrest of over eight hundred and documented immigrants in march of two thousand and seven ice conducted raids in san rafale in the votto cities in my district now you would think that that is where that marine county the wealthiest county and in the entire country would have ice raids and would have been have a need for four immigrant workers but guess what we do we are no different than any other  part of this country and will be hearing more about that later just last week ice conducted its biggest workplace raid this year at a meat processing plant in pots ville ohio of the eight hundred to nine hundred workers at the plant over three hundred were arrested twelve of those arrested were children children between the ages of fifteen and seventeen they were working at the plant in violation of child labor laws as of last thursday they were still being detained and we now know that ice conducted this raid even as to the part of labor and iowa state officials were investigating the owner of the plant for child labor violations we're very concerned that the raid will have the effect of the railing that investigation but today we're looking for the impact of the raids on the children the children of the families the children of the workers the children who are working at the plants themselves there are about four point seven million older and who have at least one parent who is undocumented of that number three point one million or two thirds of these children are u s citizens while we do not know the exact number of children who have had a parent arrested already ported we know that thousands of children have been affected and that most of them are u s citizens themselves there are also be testimony today about the ice guidelines guidelines that were put into place in november two thousand and seven and outline humanitarian concerns that officials should follow when conducting ra these guidelines are discretionary and so i sufficiently most likely have no real incentive to follow them so as a result we're still hearing heartbreaking stories of the impact on our john children they have w d their parents being arrested they have had flashlights in their faces late at night with their families they have hidden in their houses in their basements in their closets and some even under their beds afraid that their parents and other family members will be taken from them they've been separated from their families in the kurla stairways for long periods of time and many of their parents have been deported some of been absent from school for days at time and children especially young children are experiencing depression separation anxiety and in some serious cases p t s d let me tell you about keven ready is s citizen from my district given is just now age seven years of age in march of two thousand and seven when he was six ice at rest of his father his father's his  only parent in the united states and key been was there to witness the erath when his father was arrested he'd been was taken in to a sociology where he spent ten hours in detention his father was detained for six weeks and during that time keven had no idea if he would ever see his father again he experienced severe emotional trauma as a result ana is another child she is age eleven she suffered because of the raids she is from petaluma california her teacher noticed she was missing school because of severe stomach cramps after many weeks the teacher learned that the real reason ana did not want to go to schools because she was afraid if she went to school her parents would be taken away in one of the ice raids while she was gone as it turned out on his aunt had been arrested by ice and left in tijuana far away from her children it took months to return home to california he even and ana are two of the thousands of children who are living the same nightmare in postville iowa we have heard reports that at least two hundred children had parents who were swept up in the raids last week sister mary macaulay who is assisting the children and their families told us that many many children are staying at a local catholic church sleeping on the pews she said that most of these children are not going to school they're traumatized and they are very fearful and this is affected the entire community of postville a community of twenty three hundred residents sister mccauley is one of the very wonderful people which includes teachers and members of the faith community community organizers and others who have worked  ssly to make sure that these children's basic needs are being provided she may be here in the audience out there well here we come in and i will bet some of these people are witnesses here today and you will hear from them and we will applaud them but unless ice follows humanitarian procedures in conducting these raids we're still left with traumatized children and with communities that don't know how to handle the situation so again i want to thank the witnesses for being here today and i look forward to your testimony thank you very much and ranking member well good morning thank you chairman will see and i also want to commend you on your speedy recovery from your back surgery i notice that you are getting around with vim and vigor so i'm very happy for you thank you for convening this hearing i am really thank you for convening this hearing on immigration and customs enforcement ice efforts to enforce our immigration laws take a please that ice will be here this morning with mr sparrow to discuss the policies that have been developed to handle the humanitarian issues that are  subject of today's hearing an unfortunate byproduct of the failure to overhaul the immigration system has been a large number of non work eligible individuals working in the united states as devastating families in putting down roots in our communities only to have their lives up ended when it is discovered that they are here illegally this is damaging to everyone involved from the workers and their families to the employers who are in many cases unknowingly employing ineligible workers however unlike many problems facing our nation this is one which there is an obvious albeit incomplete solution sale and employment verification system the issue is so important to me that i'm a sponsor of the secure america through verification and enforcement act or say that h r forty eight in the and the new employee verification act or in need of h r fifty five fifteen i would encourage congress to take action on immigration reform by allowing a vote on h r forty eighty eight today two hundred eighty eight members have signed a discharge petition to bring that bill offered by a member of the majority party to a vote by the full house still the majority has failed to follow or allow an up and down vote i formally practice immigration law to promote legal entry and i know the value of legally entering america congress must continue to work to improve our immigration system to eliminate just the issues this hearing is designed to address but it's unreasonable for us to narrow our focus to just one small issue in the larger challenge posed by our broken borders in florida immigration system for example instance this committee has not yet explored the prevalence of identity theft nor the scourge of illegal drug trafficking both of which are closely linked to a system that permits illegal immigration just last week it was reported that the largest ever immigration raid took place in iowa iowa with nearly four hundred persons arrested of interest to our hearing today an article by the associated press reported that quote fifty six were released on humanitarian grounds typically because their arrest would leave a child with no custody and a handful released because of medical conditions and of quote madam chair i would request that the associated press article be included in the record of today's hearing clearly the article shows that steps are being taken to address the humanitarian concerns we're looking at today but the article also brings to light another issue that we are not considering today for the same article and i quote everyone arrested monday has been charged with immigration violations so for twenty of them also have been arrested for a variety of criminal including aggravated identity theft false use of so security numbers so while i appreciate the opportunity to examine these issues before us today i would like to state for the record my disappointment at the majority's unwillingness to allow real action on immigration reform hearings will not divert the attention of the american people and ignoring some of the most troubling side effects of our broken immigration system will not be enough we need real action do make opening remarks out of order without objection thank you madam chair thank you very much thank you for allowing me to join the subcommittee today i am deeply grateful to chairwoman will see and ranking member joe wilson for calling this hearing to highlight the terrible impact and the policy of stepped up immigration raids is having on children and communities today we must ask ourselves if our enforcement only approach to immigration is worth it it's estimated that there are approximately four point seven million children who have an undocumented parent two thirds of these children are u citizens late last year before the most recent round of raids and detentions the new york times reported that at least thirteen thousand children one or both of their parents deported in the last two years children are paying the highest price of all for broken immigration federal policies they're being torn from their families they live with the constant fear that any moment their parents or loved ones will be sent away instead of working toward comprehensive immigration reform this administration this now pursuing a policy of in forstmann no matter what the cost is that are pursuing a policy that addresses real threats to our nation's security we have reports of ice agents taking out migrant and seasonal head start centers for enforcement when we real reauthorize head start we included provisions to prioritize the expansion of m seasonal head start to keep young children out of the fields ice and in targeting these programs for enforcement activities has created an environment of fear and intimidation as a result families are avoiding the centers children are denied high quality save free school opportunities and are often left with no option except to accompany their families to the fields in april of this year the congressional hispanic caucus called upon ice to immediately stop this practice and to issue guidance to their field offices that social service programs are not to be targets have been forced  activity public health and safety must take precedence over these activities and as of today there has been no response to the congressional hispanic caucus from ice instead of requiring that immigrants legalize their status and putting the laws into place for them to do so our policy to arrest people place them in detention camps and neglect their health needs and human rights this represents a moral humanitarian crisis for this nation the only solution is to fix the problem when laws are unjust we change them there's no justice in our current immigration policy and it's time for change thank you but i'm sure  back thank you very much i'd like to introduce our very distinguished panel of witnesses who are here with us this afternoon in the order that they will be speaking first we will have  james spero who is currently the acting deputy assistant of the ice critical infrastructure and fraud division prior to this the science this is simon mr berrill service unit chief for the identity and benefit fraud unit at ice headquarters before that he was an acting assistant special agent in charge of the i special agent in district of columbia is called the sac slash d mr sparrow has an undergraduate degree in economics from st john's university in new york city janet moore diaz is president of and c e o of the national council of la raza a position she has held since january two thousand and five miss morgan began her career as a lead legislative counsel for former kansas congressman jim slattery she then worked as at the clinton white house working our way up to the position of deputy assistant to the president after leaving the deck the executive branch miss more dia served as deputy campaign manager and director of constituency outreach for the guard lieberman presidential campaign she received both her bachelor's and j d from the university of kansas katherine give me is principal of san pedro elementary school in samara felt california  approximately ninety six percent of san pedro student population is latino with the largest cultural groups coming from guatemala el salvador and new and mexico prior to her position as principal of san pedro school misgiving he served as k five summer school principal new teacher advisor and k eight lead later literacy coach for the samara fell elementary school district misgave me told the bachelors of arts degree in spanish and multiple subject teaching credential from the university of california irvine and an administrative credential from san francisco state university simon romo is the chief children's court attorney for the new mexico children youth and families department mr romo manages the legal staff for the protective services division throughout the state of new mexico he has twenty two years of experience with the children youth and families department and its predecessor agency he is a certified national child welfare law specialist and member of the national association of council for children and the american bar association mr romo has been licensed a licensed attorney in new mexico since one thousand nine hundred eighty five he also holds a masters degree in social work from new mexico highlands university i welcome all of our witnesses and for those of you not testified here before us in in the past let me explain the lighting system we have a five minute rule everyone including members is limited five minutes of present patient or questioning so the green light is illuminated when you begin to speak when the you see the yellow light it means that you have one minute laugh and when that the light turns red then you are asked to conclude your testimony we don't hang you out to dry mid sentence don't worry about that but if you have more to say when during the question and answer period be feel free you add what you think you may have missed first now begin with our first with witness  and that is mr sparrow good morning distinguished members of the subcommittee i am pleased to appear before you today to discuss iceland for snob aeration this ice is first and foremost a federal law enforcement agency with the mandate of protecting national security and public safety and forcing the nation's immigration and customs laws ice conducts its law enforcement operations lawfully professionally and you mainly and takes extraordinary steps to identify document and act appropriately regarding humanitarian concerns of individuals encountered during law enforcement operations in planning and forcing operations ice agents specifically plan for the possibility that individuals who are arrested may also be a sole caregiver or that their detention may otherwise place on and on do hardship on their families i strikes a balance between the operational objectives of the forcing the law and any humanitarian issues that may arise as a result of the enforce operation i says develop work site enforcement guidelines that field offices use when developing their operational plans to ensure that individuals who have been arrested and have unintended minors or family members with health factors are identified at the earliest possible point during large work site enforcement operations ice coordinates with public health service professionals to provide a sufficient number of personnel to assist the medical and humanitarian needs of  in addition to p h s when operationally possible ice coordinates with state and local so social service agencies to assist with humanitarian screening if ice is contacted by a social service agency or  s and provided with information or details regarding humanitarian concerns after an arrestee has been processed and detained carefully evaluate the new information and if appropriate may modify the conditions of release this may include the possibility of released from custody or an alternative to detention such as electronic monitoring during large scale operations in an effort to provide reliable and timely information to family determination when making a custody determination ice considers any humanitarian issues raised by the p h s a social service agency or contract support personnel and evaluates those in context of other factors including arrestees criminal record immigration history or other relevant factors we used a similar humanitarian plan on our most recent large work site enforcement operation on may twelfth two thousand and eight ice agents conducted an operation at agriprocessors co operated a meat processing plant in postal agents executed a criminal search warrant and a blackie search warrant at the company the work site enforcement operation resulted in the administrative arrest of three hundred eighty nine and documented alien workers three hundred  of whom were subsequently arrested for criminal violations in this recent operation as in all iceland force an operations extraordinary care was taken to determine if any ar humanitarian concerns this process involved a direct questioning of all arrestees on the day of the enforce an operation and during interviews with p h s representatives detainees were question no less than three times about humanitarian issues such as child custody concerns to arrange to have p h s professionals at the arrest site to immediately determine the needs and status of any children impacted by the operation through this comprehensive effort sixty two of those arrested were conditionally released for humanitarian purposes most were released from the arrest site while the operation was ongoing work site in force in operations are not poorly planned haphazard incidences  rather a professional law enforcement operation conducted by a professional law enforcement agency whose primary mission is the air force one of the laws of the united states and the protection of the american people by studies and will continue to take gr care with respect to the humanitarian concerns of aliens taken into custody during law enforcement operations and exercise discretion regarding custody when and if the exercise of such discretion is appropriate on behalf of men and women  place their lives at risk every day to enforce the laws of this nation making it a safer place to live and work i would like to thank you for your continued support these men and women have a difficult job to do you not in often dangerous circumstances but they do s as consummate law enforcement professionals thank you for your time and i look forward to answering your questions thank you ms mortgage thank you madam chairwoman worldly thank you subcommittee members and special thank you to congressman hulshof for your leadership by appreciate you being here today thanks for doing this elian and the opportunity for us to testify before you today about the challenges an impact of immigration force the work of this committee is absolutely critical to inspiring that kind of conversation with respect to immigration enforcement i very much appreciate the committee's attention to the impact of workplace raids on america's children you have my detailed statement that will be submitted for the rep heard and i'd like to make build this morning four key points first there is growing evidence that immigration raids are undercutting the very important priorities other important priorities including the protection and education of american children as well as protecting children from labor law abuse and we saw this in iowa it is also clear that the increase in workplace raids is causing enormous strain on school systems childcare centers churches and other community institutions this is well documented in the report that in c l r and the urban institute published last year and measure one i hope you'll allow us to put this in the record also it is a report that is called paying the price the impact of immigration raids on america's children and i think it's very informative in terms of the overall impact without a direct them and child care centers are forced to mobilize on very short notice to provide protection for children whose parents have been detained they must support children who are traumatized and terrified as one school administrator told us in this report the raid which took place in his community distracted the entire school system from doing its work in educating our children and truly making sure that no child is left behind in iowa last week a massive raid created panic in the school and force the catholic parish of st brigit to mobilize to feed four hundred fifty migrants the first night of the raid and shelter one hundred fifty children who spent the night on mats and imputes as we prepare this tyrant's the mony the church was still feeding and sheltering frightened families children are going to school from the church buses and returning to the church after school in c l r was particularly alarmed to learn that the employer in iowa was under investigation by state and possibly federal authorities for labor law violations including employing children as young as thirteen the investigation of these abuses has ground to a halt as a result of the immigration raid as many as a dozen children many of whom i understand were prepared to be witnesses against this employer were detained and are now in removal proceedings the employer meanwhile has regrouped and reopened the next day we just heard from our ice and forstmann official here about how many undocumented immigrants were taken in that raid but if we could have gotten one unscrupulous and abusive employer that would have sent a much more powerful message if we're going to accomplish many of our in forstmann goals the second thing i would like you to know is that the ice has made important effort to ameliorate some of the most disturbing problems resulting from these raids by issuing guidance governing the treatment of nursing mothers juvenile detainees and other humanitarian concerns and while this is encouraging that ice is responding to these severe humanitarian concerns last week's raid in iowa demonstrates that isis efforts have not been terribly effective while some detainees were indeed released from humanitarian reasons as we've heard there's also evidence that ice guidance was not always followed in c l r has learned of at least two nursing mothers detained with little access to food or their children for nearly twenty four hours are associates and i would tell us that very few detainee's were provided with access to telephones so that they could notify their families of their whereabouts and make arrangements for their children churches and school systems have been forced to guess as to the best way to provide supervision for the children who lose their parents suddenly this way in our report we documented that previous raids we saw the church and schools have to fill important roles as that safety net third i would just like to say that the committee's attention to the particular great concern with the presence of ice authorities their head start centers particularly those serving migrant workers is very disturbing we've seen a growing presence of ice in forstmann officials at daycare centers at the days where they stop and drop them off and then we've also seen them at different pick up time during the  at work closely with many of you in a bed bipartisan way to expand our efforts to deal with these migrant children i'd hate to see those efforts undercut by some of these in forstmann efforts so finally madam chairwoman i want to be as clear as we can be that we do support immigration enforcement where it needs to we need to look at the strategies and weigh the costs and benefits though of our imports with strategies and we are glad that you're here today making sure that that is done thank you for the chance to testify thank you ms give me thank you chairwoman moves lee was the sorry and distinguished members of this panel very much appreciate you holding this hearing and inviting me here to testify today my name is katherine give me and i'm principal of some pedro elementary school in san rafael california my school serves four hundred kindergarten through fifth grade students ninety six percent of whom are latino with the largest cultural groups coming from guatemala el salvador and mexico these children and other students in our district have suffered severe trauma as the result of ice raids in the low income canal neighborhood  in the predawn hours of march sixth two thousand and seven federal immigration officers pulled up in white vans in front of three large apartment building suddenly without warning agents identifying themselves as police stormed  three buildings and began pounding on doors attempting to serve thirty warrants for people who had prior deportation orders in the process these agents used the warrants as a rationale to sweep the neighborhood sending ripples of fear throughout the community they shone bright flash lights in the faces of young children who were still asleep they handcuffed parents in front of their children and took them away threatening that they would soon be back for others they left behind them a trail of fear traumatized by the vicious nature of the intrusions and terrified to take their children to the bus stop many families held their children at home in hiding other parents recognizing that school might be the safest place in able their children to go to school one child whose father had just been taken away was told by her mother to pack some essentials in her backpack and leave it by the door so that if when she returned home she found no one there she could go to her aunt's house just in case her mother was also seized and deported imagine this child's frame of mind when she left for school that day later that morning my staff and i first learned of these events as clearly shaken and crying students extorted from school buses and blurted out their stories of what had happened earlier on a day when we were scheduled to administer state exams forty students were absent seven times the nor all absentee rate throughout the day muted and trembling voices asked teachers if agents would come to school and take them away what would happen to their mommy or daddy or aunt or uncle and what would happen to during the next two weeks the situation escalated as i threaten to hold more raids as parents continue to be afraid to leave their homes even to take their children to and from the bus stop and as this fear took its mental and psychological toll on children on family and on teachers and staff who worked long hours to ride buses and ensure that students were released safely into the care of an authorized adult the san r community responded with speed and compassion the community launched efforts to discover the facts of what had taken place and expressed opposition to the way in which these raids were implemented in one detailed response ice leadership in washington d c responded that although they avoid entering schools places of worship or hospital they would do so if the situation warranted it consequently we could no longer assure our children that schools were absolutely safe and sound fell on may eighth two thousand a stop to father walking his daughter to school at the elementary school since agents were not able to communicate with the father the second grade daughter serve as translator between her father and the agent who ultimately took him away the impact of these raids has been devastating absentee rate has soared test scores have dropped students who do make it to school remain distracted as they worry about whether their families will be at home when they return families to sleep at night as they worry about possible home interrogations families whose breadwinners have been seeds are struggling to survive even when family members were successful proving their right to be in the country and we're allowed to return the memories of children the memories of us agents banging on the doors of their houses that dawn shining lights in their faces and taking their parents quality education and their rights guaranteed to all american citizens they are america's children and the nation's future workforce success in schools depends on a three way partnership between students schools and famil the current environment strains the family component there must be a better way to execute a federal mandate in a more humane manner thank you thank you mr roemer ge distinguished members of the subcommittee thank you for allowing me to be here this morning testify on behalf of children youth and families from new mexico a little bit of context from two thousand to do thousand and five the foreign born population grew in new mexico by twenty eight percent the national average for the same period was approximately eighteen percent in new mexico in two thousand and five the total population of the state was one million eight hundred eighty seven thousand two hundred people foreign born residents numbered one hundred sixty thousand or roughly nine percent of whom approximately  hundred fifteen thousand or six percent were non citizens in two thousand and five only ten and a half percent of the foreign born population in the mexico was under eighteen while more than half of that at the time fifty three percent almost fifty four percent  childbearing age between the ages of eighteen to forty four and the great majority almost eighty percent was a working age today of the foreign born in new mexico an estimated forty to fifty five thousand are undocumented the majority of children into mexico who have non citizen parents were themselves born in united states and it is therefore likely that the majority of children affected by immigration enforcement operations are in fact u s citizens the children of immigrants are at high risk for entering into the child welfare system they are more likely to live in linguistic isolation live in a single parent family have a mother with less than a high school education and be economically deprived the children using families department currently has eighteen non citizen children in protective custody a figure that has remained pretty much constant throughout the past several years the department has not been able to reliably track citizenship status of parents in our data system but of the two thousand three hundred children in care in new mexico it's estimated that a significant number have at least one parent who is not a u s citizen given the high percentage of foreign nationals of childbearing age living in the mexico it is unknown how many of these children came into care as a as a result of their parent being deported immigration raids and enforcement activities into mexico have been documented though c y f dea has not been notified to respond nor have any children come into custody is a direct result of these activities the department is not informed of in force with operations before they happen and so is not able to respond to children and assess for their safety in a timely manner instead relatives neighbors friends and community agencies have been absorbing the responsibility of caring for children left without parents this lack of initial involvement of the state agency responsible for ensuring the safety permanency and wellbeing of children places those who are separated from their parents at an additional risk of entering into the system later as they are often shuffled around in stable situations with minimal support and minimal resources on november sixteenth two thousand and seven the office of immigration and customs enforcement and the department of homeland security released guidelines for identifying humanitarian concerns among administrative arrestees when conducting work site enforcement operations the new humanitarian guidelines put into ice's policy regarding notifying appropriate social services agencies of work side raids targeting more than one hundred fifty employees but this is had a minimal effect on enforcement activities and may not be implemented effectively in new mexico given that it's primarily a rural state the department has not been contacted before or after any work site operations in the mexico to identify individuals requiring assistance as spelled out in the guidelines of particular concern to the department is trauma to children the limitation of the humanitarian guidelines on the identification of individuals who've been who have dependent children places these children in particular risk while we've had a few raids that have detained approximately twenty or thirty immigrants at a time the most common practice that we see by eyes into mexico is that it's  operating on a smaller scale with increased presence in homes and on the streets of certain communities such as border towns and high population centers in which latino families have been targeted the times when children are most vulnerable to experiencing trauma as a result of immigration enforcement operations or those when a parent goes to the store and never comes back or when parents are taken away from their homes the disruption of a safe holding environment in the separation of children from their caretakers can severely and permanently damage a child traumatic experiences such as these frequently lead to further negative relational behavioral and educational outcomes the department does not generally find out about him for smack to activity until after the fact and is therefore not able to respond to mitigate the negative effects on children in terms of our recommendations the why of the supports keeping immigrant families together if at all possible when there are no signs of active abuse or neglect immigration enforcement operations are inherently traumatic for children and they need support immigrant enforcement these are especially problematic in the child welfare system when the children or of an undocumented worker who is the who is deported is a u s citizen existing nice guidelines that emphasize keeping families together if the parent in question is the sole caretaker or if the child has special needs are not being uniformly implemented in new mexico the department believes that notice of enforcement operation should be required in all instances regardless of the size of the employer workforce to avoid causing trauma to even one child thank you chairwoman thank you very much thank all four of you this is been very informative i have so many questions i don't even know where to start but i'll i will begin and we might have a couple rounds of questions unless we get everything covered to the best of our ability first i'd like to ask you mr acting deputy assistant spiro is it ice age t a police officer congressman and ice agent is an ice special agent with the officer investigations is a criminal investigator we have we have some federal agents criminal investigative special agents and we also i'll knock knock knock police do they is that accurate or is that calling themselves something that they're the congresswoman in in many cases if an ice officer identifies themselves as police it's to make the person aware that they are law enforcement in some cases the person may not understand what it is but it's policy to quickly identify themselves as a as an immigration and customs they really aren't daily and so if we now here's another question if if they have a document for somebody that they want to knock knock i came to get cell and cell and that's the person is not in the house in the facility can they pick anybody they want out of that that apartment or that house and take them with  congresswoman i was invited to talk about work site enforcement issues and i believe that if we're talking about things that happened outside of the work site that might be something that i'd prefer to answer in writing ok well i'd like to hear back from you about the fact that if they don't have if they aren't invited into the apartment into the house they really have no right to  to go in if they don't have if that individual they're looking for is not in there so we can talk about that later ok miss it is more diaz this has to cost these kind of actions has a huge cost on our community so i mean there's no question the the cost to our schools our churches the faith organizations the foster care system and  report was really an effort to document what some of those costs might look like and i think it's fair to say that we ought to be looking at more data to look at the impacts you can set aside the emotional and mental trauma and distress that this causes in the short term but in the long term you know there are late in the fix on these children that i think have to be addressed not only impact their ability to learn to concentrate to focus in the school system to keep them in those systems when something like this has happened is a broader social cost but then there are the actual physical and mental costs that we see that incur on these children in the short term and in the long term and it's just not to mention how disruptive this is to communities overall when you have the social safety net of churches and schools having to pick up the pieces where we've come in and when we've seen some of these those communities and and there are many and we've attempted to try to document what those costs might be to us as a society but certainly in the short term and in the long term when you see traumatic affects not just on the children and what's in the best interests of the children being placed in question and we should offset one of course then action certainly with another and that's what we saw happening in iowa when you had a labor infortunate action supersede by another related action and what would have been the better pay off there so there are all kinds of costs and there are better costs and benefits and i appreciate trying to weigh the thank you thank you ms give me is the talk about the cost of assimilating into the community after young people and their families have been traumatized what impact does that have on on gangs that come along later well  assure you but i doubt very much the gang members were the ones who were seized during the i think they're really good at hiding but the children talk to me about parks they can't play or you know there's the color of the red and blue and that sort of thing so really the element that we deal with at our schools are the families who are working hard to establish their lives here in this country ok thank you mr wilson secure review boards family courts that may have interest in any enforcement action that the agency undertakes do you find these diverse agencies so cooperative with your efforts are there any impediments to ensure that each agency is working with you instance where an individual caught in a sweep is released for humanitarian reasons can you explain why it is to ensure the person returns for legal processing of their case do you have statistics on what happens to these individuals  ensure that the person will show up for their any subsequent immigration proceedings and that may include releasing an individual on their own cognisance an alternative to the tension such as electronic monitor is fairly common i think that that would actually be maybe a better question for my colleagues on our deportation side and we'd be happy to provide that in writing with the advances in technology it's very intrusive and i'm happy to hear there is an effort at electronic monitoring and with the technology and g p s technology we have today it's a phenomenal can't be done being respectful of persons rights but detention such as electronic monitoring can you wouldn't want to again what ice considers a humanitarian exception but attainment or there are instances where this would not be honored for example if the detainee is also found  have committed crimes other than the immigration violations for which they've been detained in some circumstances would be if the if the individual is has a criminal history that would would have an impact on our custody determination and in other instances the individual may not be arrested solely for administrative immigration charges but for federal felony violations as well temptation that the presence on school campuses causes what's isis policy regarding agents that are in school premises to track that back or lend any validity to it one of the things i will tell you congressman is that when we are conducting surveillance for the most part we are trying to be like any other law enforcement agency so we try and we wouldn't shouldn't be necessarily in any kind of marked vehicle the majority of our vehicles both in the office of investigations and deportations actually so you're not aware of any l given the high number of mixed families across the united states how do i say agents ensure that it doesn't apprehend children who are actually u s citizens or permanent residents or another law in lawful status when agents raided home let's e validity of that claim and sometimes that it's also done through with the help of consular officers as well from them from their home country just one for you what are the lasting effects school for one year after one year after the raid well i would say that it's a very heavy presence in our school both for staff and children and families one of the things that families most want to help with is immigration status support around that among many other things they want to help their children with and it's really difficult to ascertain in numbers and percentages exactly how profoundly our children are affected because they were a lot of fear and concern on a regular basis so what we do is give them the opportunity to speak with a counsellor with teachers to write about their about their fears but try to keep them focused on academics at the same time  to these raids have on the community at large and what what what could we be doing differently congressman a believe there's a state senator from a county which is a border county in southern new mexico  subcommittee these the long lasting impact of this from what we're learning from the brain science on child development can be extremely traumatic as the basis for post traumatic stress disorder and these kinds of the residue if you will or the little bombs that are left in place the little bombs that go off as children develop varying developmental milestones can be extremely traumatic and contribute to all kinds of relational problems and that impact not just on children but on families and the impact on communities the fear the distrust the failure to reach out for help the failure to achieve potential the failure to integrate the reality is that particularly in border areas but into mexico for example  integration of individuals into their communities is highly dependent on their willingness and ability to trust to reach out for help when they needed to be able to maximise their contributions and so these kinds of of activities are extremely problematic and particularly when we have sixty percent of the children being american citizens to have their parents removed one of the things that we've learned in child protective services when we have parents arrested or incarcerated for any length of time  children need to see their parents the fact that they're told that they're ok is insufficient they need to see them and when you remove a parent from the life of a child and you leave that child wondering and we set off these little  bombs that will go on through their development and into their adulthood were really creating very problematic situations in our communities not just in the border areas but particularly there and in mexico but throughout the state and i believe throughout the country this is extremely problematic  for your for your patience directors sparrow i know some is getting the was sounded somewhat alarmed that ice agents would show up suddenly and without warning agents or law enforcement officers right trying to move in to enforce the law that is correct congressman i guess i'm trying to think the case where law enforcement officers wouldn't show up suddenly without warning it doesn't doesn't come to me if we could go to the may twelfth raid in iowa i believe you said director there was a you gave a number of three hundred eighty nine was at three eighty nine arrests that's correct three hundred eighty nine administr e arrests administrative arrests and those three hundred four were criminal violations that's violation of immigration law or other laws or what what's in that three hundred four three hundred  individuals which charged criminally with criminal federal violations in the northern district of iowa with various found is such an identity that aggravated identity theft and possession of fraudulent documents i see and eighty presumably had correct documentation or i'm sorry congressman the other eighty five were arrested soley for on immigration administrative violations they were either presented and not accepted for lack of evidence to the u s attorney for federal criminal prosecution or released on humanitarian with humanitarian issues so they were arrested they did not have proper documentation they were arrested for being illegal or illegally in the united about is ice work place raids and their impact on children families and communities so we're focused on the workplace raid in this workplace raid you made three hundred eighty nine ministre to arrest three hundred for a criminal violation sixty two were released for humanitarian purposes so your agents talk to each of the three eighty nine to make these determinations as what you would be released for humanitarian purposes that's correct and no less than three occasions   screening questions so that totaled on three separate occasions and no less than three separate occasions we attempted to ascertain any humanitarian concerns including sole caregiver issues ok thank you  last study is highly critical of ice not making public guidelines and procedures related to workplace raids why why don't you is there a concern that these documents would prejudice other or compromised future operations why wouldn't you the guidance itself i believe is public but as far as making pretty notifications to the public prior to conducting any in force you madam chair appreciate the opportunity to be here and i want to thank our witnesses mr sparrow over three hundred workers were arrested in one form or another from they raided agriprocessors is that right i mean i think that's what you just said it three hundred eighty nine how many of the owners or how many people associated with the management of the plant were arrested i don't believe i don't believe that i believe that every one of those people that we've arrested where workers in the plant is it not reasonable to assume that if over a third of the workforce employed at this plant violated labor law in one form or another that management has to have some complicity  those violations congressman i can't comment on the potential ongoing investigation one thing that i would tell you though from listening to counterparts on the  who has a long his three violating various of our laws including labor laws at several of their facilities i'm just curious i mean we clearly as a country have adopted i would say by default and enforcement only immigration policy my own view is that policy is very unwise but to the extent that we are pursuing in force only why is it that so much of our enforcement focuses on the workers and doesn't focus in an equal fashion on those who are profiting from the work of those that they employ and is this within your purview was this within the purview of another agency within homeland security or is this department of labor well with respect to work work site enforcement i can tell you that focuses on the greatest employer to the company so is it reasonable to assume that charges may be forthcoming at some future point against management and ownership but i couldn't say so i would certainly hope so but you couldn't say i would certainly hope that charges would be forthcoming i want to go back to this issue and again this may be beyond what you have been brought here to asked to come here to testify about but as i said by default it seems because of inability of this congress to agree on a way forward in terms of comprehensive reform we have adopted an enforcement only strategy of just cite one example i'm from new york  e farm credit bureau of new york not exactly move on dot org has has conducted a study in which they estimate that the pursuit of an enforcement only immigration policy will result in over eight hundred farms in new york state going out of business at a loss of approximately twenty five thousand jobs is this kind of issue something that is being discussed within your department is there some broader concern that we may be pursuing a strategy that is not in our broader national interest congressman i could only speak home and i'm sure it's very important issue for the nation i understand that the topic of this hearing is ice workplace raids that are impact on u s children families and communities do do you all agree that if someone is in the country that has entered the country illegally without proper proper documentation or overstayed the the limit of the documentation that they enter the country with are they breaking the law do you all agree with that that if someone enters the country illegally or overstays their legal status are they breaking the law could you just answer that yes or no yes thank you yes congressman ok one of the things that seems to bother my constituents is to this poignant time we seem to have been ignoring and probably give them a ticket and i think we would all agree that that's probably correct enforcement of the law is that correct but it seems like we totally look the other way when that when it's pretty apparent that an immigration laws been broken now i understand that a raid may cause some real turmoil some real problems with the children who may be here illegally may have been born here may be citizens but if we go back to where this first starts a person that enters the country illegally or overstays their their legal status they are really the ones that are putting those children in jeopardy by by their own actions and they should take those children into account i would think you know we just we've seen lots of publicity recently on the on the raids of the polygamous compound in texas and i looked at that and i and my wife and i talking about it have great concern for those children that are torn from their parents through no fault of their own it came from a parent illegal action on the parent's part still causes lots of trauma for the for the children much is the cases that we've heard about today and i think all of us have real compassion for the children the thing that seems to bother my constituents is that we're not in forcing the law or we're selectively enforcing the law so when pressure was put on ice or on the administration to enforce the laws that are currently on the books how else would you expect them to to enforce the law it seems to me that they they made the raid i think the point was made by one of the members earlier  that's how law enforcement works when they when they think the laws been broken they don't give advance warning that we're going to show up and check they show up and that's how they find out if laws have been broken and if laws are broken they make arrests then we have other agencies that are responsible for for what happens after that arrest  how how would how other way are there or are there other ways you would suggest that they perform their responsibilities of carrying out the law i'd like to respond  thank you congressman you know i think you point out what i think a number of people see when they see it in this country that has a broken system when it comes to immigration paper lot of anxiety a lot of frustration everybody wants  to see our laws that are of course we start first by reforming our immigration law system and we should do and let me let me let me let me let me state this and then i'll give you a chance to finish we do have a bill that was introduced granted there was earlier failure to get a bill passed a comprehensive reform but we have a bill right now introduced by a member of the majority  party that we have put a discharge petition out on because we would like to bring it forward and we have one hundred eighty seven members that have signed that if we can get the members that have sponsored the bill the sign that we could bring that to the floor and and move forward on that bill it's being held up by the majority leadership and i think that that it's time that we that we get to really working on this issue now if you get several bills that have been introduced i certainly believe that congressman gutierrez has also offered a bill and there are several bills that have been out there that offer solutions but you're talking about what to do now without that kind of effort and i guess i just would like to put a broader context on another perspective and that is you know there are people who come here and who are desperate and they feel like coming to this country is one of the few answers they have they don't have a means by which they can legally come here to this country people who are desperate and rob banks i don't making the same comparison but i just want to make sure you understand the reason they're here is they're desperate and a lot of times because they want to make sure that those children are taking care of their they want to make sure that they have better lives for their children the children have a better opportunity to be taken care of but i don't think anybody is suggesting we should punish these kids for the actual of their parents and we need to make sure that as we look at not whether we enforce our laws it's how we enforce our laws and that's really what's on the issues today and what you know what i had mentioned was we had a law enforcement effort underway in postville through a labor action with the root of the problem but why is it that in two thousand and seven we have seen that in fact that there are seven million undocumented workers there are six million employers in the united states but  and i i would agree totally it should be the employer it's difficult many times for them to tell if somebody brings forged documents that they are actually here legally but that can be found they definitely should the enforcement should be across the board i have no problem with that because that's the only way we're going to stop thank you mr mckeon mr payne thank you very much  concern about the employer who is actually the magnet for people i mean if we're talking about how bad legal people are and and and and that it should be stopped have have ice ever thought about employer to one that has sort of invites them in and are there certain firms that seem to have a disproportionate number of illegal workers distinction that we have to make being in immigration and customs enforcement congressman is that some of our s are for criminal federal felonies and others are for administrative arrests are criminal federal arrests that companies that really have no idea what you said criminal they're more looking for criminal act that's why they're sort of specialists they're specialists in the fact that their primary mission is to look for people who have been ordered removed by an immigration judge but someone was giving me information that they are are supposed to go after people they think are criminal you know first of all people who may have stolen identities and things of that nature and from what i understand anyway in new jersey the teams arrested two thousand and seventy nine  people last year twice as many as they did the year before and from what information we were able to get we they were supposed to be going after the criminal element however eighty eight percent of the people that they arrested had had no criminal histories so they have for i miss lead to feel that this special posse are supposed to go after the hardened criminal pretty unsuccessful allianz who were convicted of crimes and subsequently ordered removed by an immigration judge well there are eighty eight percent almost ninety percent i mean they're they're you know they were baseball play to be bad one hundred i mean said they pick up almost anyone you know legal residents up in north bergen arrested by an agent did not ask to check our paperwork to detain for twenty four hours without food or water another ice agent and police from pens grove stormed into a house guns drawn looking for a man i had to deport two years earlier new jersey the rays are conducted by a four fugitive operations teams as part of a nationwide program launched in two thousand three to round up illegal immigrants but once again supposed to be the criminal element you know the thing that is annoying and we all believe people should abide by the law but i just am appalled by the way that that justice is just you know and and you know cities people are just taken out to the precinct and communities of affluence that driven home and say don't don't keep driving drunk so we have a difference in the way that laws are applied and i think that if you are agency is going to have any kind of respect you ought to have a level playing field and take those business people who are abusing in some instances illegal people and put them in handcuffs with the cops behind their backs and some ankle chains like they do  illegal immigration know how it is and do that to them too and then maybe they won't do that and we can come up with some kind of immigration policy that makes sense i think my time is expired thank you mr in the house thank you my first question is to jane spiro thank you for your participation on april the twenty ninth the congressional hispanic caucus since a letter to assistant secretary julie of immigration and customs enforcement asking to stop the action on reported in forstmann activities near migrant and seasonal hits part sitters i'd like to ask you in fact madam sure i'd like to ask unanimous consent that this letter be made a part of the record without objection thank you i'd like to ask you please share with me how and when i supplants to respond to our letter congressman i would like to be able to respond to that class in writing in writing ok then i'll move on to miss janet moore you as president of the top ten largest nonprofit corporation of us in the nation your participation in this congressional hearing is very important in your testimony you give a number of specific instances of ice enforcement activity said hit start programs in schools we have a long and growing list the reports have been forced near and around migrant and his start programs in many locations across the nation we have also seen that the human guidelines have been woefully and adequate in ensuring that the children are protected and cared for please tell us what recommendations do you have for us for regulations or legislation to put federal polic answer that migrant head start program company in a parent or agency helping them taking the child i mean it was a very traumatic experience there and i guess we would also like to see that those incidents be responded to and i appreciate the leadership of the caucus but i think what we'd like to see today is the fact that once those guidelines are not in force on a consistent basis your continued oversight as a committee is extremely important in making sure that we are holding our agencies accountable for forcing these guidelines in a consistent way and i think that is important but i think we may want to look at strengthening those guidelines and perhaps brady legislation that would put them in place in a way where they would be strictly adhered to and not in a discretionary way and so for us i think we want to see the opportunity to make sure that humanitarian guard lines are consistently followed and that there may be legislation that is comprehensive that would allow for systematic interest of the child to be protected in any of these types of incidents we are see burns on the churches and on schools we should clarify what exactly those roles can be but also what are the resources that are going to be necessary when those particular two shows have to step up so i do think there is an opportunity to strengthen those guidelines in addition to make sure that they're more consistently important and maybe legislation that comes of it thank you i hope that other members of congress would hear that response that you gave me because that's the strength the justification for comprehensive immigration reform piece of legislation i'd like to ask ms katherine give me from pedro elementary schools you provided compelling testimony please describe for us how the immigration raids have affected your ability to carry out your responsibilities to be education setting and in the child welfare setting thank you congressman  that's a many layered response i would give i'd like to use as an example how it's affected me and my dad when we were compelled to ride buses to deliver children safely to their  home our workload is completely shifted when these events occur and all of our focus all of our time all of our energy is put on the welfare of the children so we wrote about six o'clock at night three days in a row three ways this is my entire staff and they put aside preparatory time basically that perpetrates time for their classes to be prepared also after school programs became something more of a counseling session than actual instruction i would say that the whole system is broken and our children are suffering terribly for it as are we it is so difficult for us the absolute impact that this is had on our children in terms of their learning and their proficiency and i think that the level frustrating it must be to carry out your responsibilities sambo's who work under your guidance the teachers and so i sympathize with how difficult it must be my time has run out and i wish that  we could have more time because this is certainly very informative and something that is necessary that we share with our members of congress so that we can expedite and move acknowledgments i'd like to introduce for the record i would like to quote from it regarding work site enforcement in particular this shows there's a significant effort against employers not just employees and particularly the subsection strengthening work site enforcement ice's more aggressive work site enforcement strategy targeted the jobs magnet that attracts illegal aliens seeking employment in the u s and f y o seven s traumatically increase penalties against employers whose hiring process is violate the law securing fines and judgments of more than thirty million dollars while making eight hundred sixty three criminal arrest in four thousand and seventy seven administrative arrest thank you madam chairman without objection will enter that into the record mr wilson i want to thank all of our witnesses for an excellent hearing thank you for coming thank you for being open and honest with us you confirm what we all know we need to do better by our children the administration must take the necessary steps to ensure that these raids are conducted in a humane fashion and they are protective of the kids not harmful which apparently won't happen until humanitarian guidelines become mandatory instead of voluntary because despite initial hopes that discretionary guidelines would help they're not being followed on a consistent basis i commend senators kerry and kennedy and representative delahunt for their initial actions and negotiating these guidelines and i look forward to working with them to strengthen the measures senator kerry and representative police have you know do see the family first immigration enforcement act this legislation which i co sponsored takes an excellent first step it mandates that a workplace raid targeting fifty or more people consider the release of detainees on age medical or family related humanitarian grounds it also requires that i give  data agency's advance notice of the raids that affords detainees access to social service agencies to determine if medical risks or risk to families exist we made to take action we need to do it now we need to protect our kids and with all of us working together i am confident that we can come up with the best solution and a solution that's much better than what we have now and sank you for being part of informing us what you think would be a better solution with that previously ordered members will have fourteen days to submit additional materials for the hearing record any members who any member who wishes to submit follow up questions in writing to the witness should coordinate with majority staff within fourteen days without objection this hearing is a