n unfinished business appointment to the park and rec the traffic calming proposal was submitted to the residence in the area of the southern section of our hill road we did get a majority of the people in the study area to  springdale and sierra trail meet so there's a curve here so there you do have a stretch from about there too hard which works fairly straight stretch  we don't have any regular sections and what you would have would to raise intersection would you do you would have you would also be some type of way an architectural treatment to it so that it's not just a big flat you  that we approve the traffic calming study proposed related to the area between springdale and finish road as provided also the second but i think there is an audience in the lower end of down water dam up to our house about fifty percent of the distance of the whole road under study  down and work on my driveway door in hard drive because the cars go by so quickly that to blow me off the road the school buses in the morning come out coming up empty and a afternoon going down for going back to the grind coming convoy and may certainly expected to see a speed limit of twenty five and i've talked to mike about it i talked first with i agree one hundred percent with you and my motion was simply to approve the original part of the potential get it off the table i'm happy to make a second motion after we finish our because i also live off of our help road and am intimately aware shop no i had recommended to mike that maybe we approach the engineer to see if they had another solution and we could put something there and i had said that we didn't object the pavement on the west side of that road in the short radius breaks off and so that means that people coming down the hill run across the center line to avoid that and the people that motion and go back and you know after they're done and do counts and it might be far you know saying as opposed to to to try to do something now put in the corps in front of  doing that and because the plan was recorded that program out of their clean green status and would involve roll back taxes the county had indicated that they would be willing to not implement that in two thousand say anything about prohibiting further subdivision do you do you think that that's something that they would normally have included in something of this nature because the access is so narrow so this is coming on his desk the buildings are all being demolished ok so there is that road that comes up here but that is all going to be gone because now that part of the heavy property and so the heavy property basically is expense what's happening right now is that the want or trial counsel is going a new bridge down there and so to do that they need to relocate their existing utility lines and they are doing that the the relocated lines and so that's what this agreement is doing we wanted to preserve the ability that if any other work needs to be done associated their project they would be responsive to remove their lines at their own  we felt that we need to have an agreement with them to do all the work and to find the scope of the work so we had a meeting of them or in the library and came up with exactly what is to be done and so this is their proposal and i'm recommending approval we will budget thirty thousand so would i would make it subject to ensuring that the library commits to the remaining funds to know i move that we approve the agreement between the library in our s s c and the township in the amount of twenty four five to do design services for the library projects asked why do we need  they go in and better and in poor weather so the total bid for the three vehicles would be eighty seven thousand and sixty three dollars you know what we budgeted for and we well we budgeted a combination of the public hearing was whether that industrial district is the appropriate location based primer based on its proximity to a lot of homes there we talked about at the prior workshop the possibility of of looking at amending the comprehensive plan to kind of fly some additional property that could be zone and some type of that would be acceptable for for gas drilling and i guess we're just trying to first of all i don't believe it's a given that we have to provide for the drilling and i think that needs to be resolved one way or another but i think that in order to do this properly if you look at some of the court cases that have been you know going around lately the burden is severely on municipalities to be able to say to document and substantiate exactly how they arrived at any decision that they do make if you decide to do something you have to have a solid rationale a legal constitutional right now for how you did it in there has to be credible testimony that you know that that is you know  a reasonable ration out if you decide not to do something same statement i personally believe that what we really should do is to  just to put together a joint committee working committee if you if you want to call it that for people from the council a couple people from the commission to look at all of the things that that legally have to be done if we're going to do anything we need to look at it and we need to get for example i think the land planner to look at the property we do have in the township to see if it would meet the various criteria for rezoning if that's what you know validated you know there there's been a baseline studies that have to be done i think we need to put together a plan of the things that need to be done and you know you know you know some type of  resolution as to whether you know whether rezoning in fact could be done that's that's not a given either so that that group is i would say you would then get concurrence of counsel and planning commission that that's the general plan that we want to follow the planning commission i think should carry out the studies that are necessary and then come back to council where the for at least it was kind of consistent citizens who are seeking to compel all the township supervisors to watch for testimony as to exactly how they arrived at the conclusion that it was permissible anywhere  the analogy i see for us in talking about the white industrial is that you know the discussion has been well you know it'll go the way and sure because we can't think of a better place to put it and i would hate to offer that is legal to us that well and would agree with his observation that perhaps what you propose is a way to try to move forward so that we can determine what we can do you know i mean i think what we do has to be done right really as what i'm saying is i don't know what the answer is but i think that it has to be thought out it has to be rational it has to be legal and it has to be backed up by by expert testimony i mean none of us are capable of testifying to public health hazard sure or anything like that none of us are geophysical engineers that could testify to you know land structures are you know and these are all things incidentally that have been brought up and presented as testimony in other places so i mean this is john jump in if you like but i mean it's this is a it's a rapidly evolving fabric of of how townships arrive whatever it is that they're going to arrive with regard to to get strong and i don't think that if you look seriously at the constitutional provisions the supreme court decision on the act thirteen challenge and if you look at what they said about you know article one section one due process for citing you know comparable uses in a zoning area if you look at what they said about not only the state but townships being having a trustee responsibility which means  fiduciary responsibility to assure not just take a guess at but to assure that you're meeting the the provisions of that amendment to provide clean here clean water and a healthy environment for all our citizens and you have to look at it on a township wide basis it can't be just one area and i think what you're describing mr ball is is an informed decision you want to make an informed decision you want to be able to regardless of what that decision is you want to be able to stand up in any proceeding and says this is how we reached our decision in a number of proceedings either i'm involved in or other lawyers are involved in the supervisors can answer the question and i think gone are the days where you can rely on your solicitor and your engineer for typical municipal matters because normally one of the other could handle the question that brought to the table and now because of looking at environmental concerns looking at you know industrial activity once you go beyond areas where typical industrial activities are there's a new spectrum of questions and answers that you know we can give a legal backdrop as to what that might look like and what are the legal obstacles but there are planning just like when you do a comprehensive plan you bring a planner in who's looking at the township as a whole  some of these municipalities some of these fights have gone on for they're still going on for five six seven nights of hearings some starting for the afternoon go until nine or ten a night and it's all experts coming in really contradicting the township saying what you didn't do i have you know people coming in saying this is the noise problems that we generate at these locations these are the environmental issues the individual that testified in our public hearing apparently the next night was called as an expert witness in another public hearing and i provided a report and picked up to the manager the pediatrician who lives in the township testified in mount pleasant timeship about how far we should have this away from children and things like that so information that we could but it doesn't mean there's not a counter to those arguments but i think it's just gathering the right people to answer questions is going to be key so i think that what's going to happen which is i think what's going to happen is that unfortunately like many legal discussions i you may have thought that this was going to be a three month activity it's going to be a problem that it will end and that will be the end of it put your writing team based on what you know any logical sassaman they're going to come back they're going to maintain it to there's going to be and i think from a construction standpoint from the residential where there's some expectation when you buy your home in an area that's been built you're going to have construction activity i think that's expected but it's also hours of operation are limited by the township there's certainly controls in place  you know this activity a lot of it's going to be twenty four seven may go on for some time so you're right plus you know and gary may be able to speak this better than i would at least in most parts of southwestern pennsylvania we do have at a minimum three showplace so the other not just going to drop them or sell as well in typically you don't see any more and in most instances somebody drilling out the hole location of dropping ten wells and they may drop to just a whole lot of production those areas come back to two more and they never really did to that picture the rainbow in the in the grass and just the well house it went well head sticking out of the ground so it is it's an ongoing issue and i think it you know the court got it right we need to find it as an industrial application and in an industrial finished product as well can and we need to understand that you know if where we put something it is is likely that drilling is not it's not a policy decision it's not something that we decide well you know we'll just you know we'll just say you can do that over here it's a constitutional issue because if the the due process cause says that you can't put incompatible uses in  zoning district that's that's part of the limit if police go or issue now so you know we can't just say well you know because that's way out in the middle of nowhere you can you can put one there are no more bother anybody that doesn't work our planners and experts say it's should be ok there and if not here's why because a player say that we can't do it here because of x y and z and then that's that i think what's missing because i think the ordinance has started off in pretty good speed in terms of the requirements peter's has in place but i think even the question that was posed to added that the hearing how did we get the seven hundred fifty foot sat back or well it was based on a prior number but it was really somewhat arbitrary too and they're all that way right now because even the state i mean think about state pick three hundred feet is a setback that was based on feasibility and wasn't based on any sort of scientific principles and really one of the reasons of course struck it down was how could you intuit you intil you looked at the local concern  fracking in all of the state of new york and immediately people started this champion there's taking some morgans there so it would be a federal claim i'm also learning to some extent obviously limits what you can do to your property you just have to have some rationale that we can identify changes out to the final product that we need to be researching later perhaps you know riyadh for ties down at some later point but i believe it's still pending in nature but obviously this process should run somewhat parallel of each other so you know guys from whatever people planners or otherwise to see is there a place and if there is then we need to be able to defend what council did and if there isn't then there we need to be able to defend what councils going to do well if i could just a lot of people on how many speakers we had twenty five twenty six and i mean there you can't really disagree with orly any of the arguments of people are making whether it's you know on one side or the other  you know and i agree that we need more information and i don't know you know what the hell facets of this of this scandal or and i don't know if we'll ever that you know you watch t v it's like a fraction been around for you know sixty five years and it's you know really safe and yada yada yada but you know i'm sure you could get ten experts in here to say the complete offices and i have absolutely no problem us taking a big look at the picture and you know in  this seems like we're talking about is a very protracted time line i mean your natural going to go through all of these computations or mutations and variations i  don't see that happening quickly and so i have a concern about that and and you know one of the other items that i we talked about i think want to our own want to go to within the last six is i recall what you know i think that you have to also look at that issue and that is you know looking at a bigger course will and maybe zoning it in such a way  mean you know he was pretty adamant that he wanted the money on his own gas and i think you know we've argued should have the right to make that decision but that's all going to change because you know once you what let's say that something like that happens and you know i'm not a big fan of the will gas industry put on the other end you know i recognized oil and gas has value also identified one of the problems that we're struggling with as peter it has an identity as a community that's a residential community while we don't have a lot of industrial light industrial we don't have a lot of commercial sometimes to our chagrin because we don't you know we rely on our residential sylvester he can point to the years of development that have you know added to the revenues and improve the communities so that's the other struggles you know by nature of the definition of peter's much of our character as a residential community overriding governmentally constitutional concerns i mean you know you may think that our characters is you know residential and you know that you know i would agree with that the problem is is that if the constitution in the township for council i'm to see could we make it work for now i think we should take it to the next level and say ok if we can what does it look like does require rezoning does it require them some sort of extraction district like mike discussed before number one after we do that we'll see where we want to go so i'm make that motion second the other discussion on that in favor  that there was a problem in collection at least dating back to two thousand and twelve and we are working with these done to rectify that problem not only in peter's township but in washington county  encourage and thing is they are considering having your own study on the rise in the previous data that the state uses i don't know how much traction that's going to get and we're going to be doing that and also can get hired i just got a couple quick things a couple people have mentioned to me is it possible to put a couple porta johns on the trail well we have one down you have to walk along the road and we go across the bridge it's there just before the engineering company that's really an error and there's no there's no side to it what the new bridge will it will be but my here's my is the first public park in america calm planned open meeting at pleasant valley high not high school present ballet school at seven thirty so wednesday seven thirty one who should lose to york and