look bad this is my first and last situation with the polies i was twenty two years old and i was transferring for one bus to another on the way home and there was a large group of young brothers hang it out on the bus stop all of a sudden two police officers grab hack off my hands behind my back threw it in the ground with so much force i busted my head told them i was not a part of their group and definitely not selling drugs they frisked me and then they let me go since i didn't have any drugs they never said a word until they ha me and threw me to the ground this was the eighty's and today would be called racial profiling yeah i had a situation with the police also i was in my studio recording with some artists and it was a late night session we decided to go to the store and get some refreshments so we all piled in my car about five of us it was two three four o'clock in the mornin i'm not sure i don't remember the time i remember going to the store and we got about four or five blocks from my house on our way back and so i was wondering why was what was the big what was the big deal why were we been searched  i kind of felt like our rights were violated so when i asked one officer said well we seen a guy in the front seat and a guy in a back seat some man we thought you were hand in a weapon passed in a weapon so in all actuality what happened was the guy in the back seat asked for a cigarette and a guy in a front passenger seat gave him a cigarette so i think the moral of the story is where did i get these perceptions of people if we were in a bunch of white kids in a car militant night in a predominantly white neighborhood would they have to perception that we were passing a weapon back and forth or is that just because of where we were where is that just because of where we were and who we were levy pounds and i'm a law professor at the university of st thomas and also the director of the community justice project which is a civil rights legal clinic well when i think about the word peer i tend to think of people who have been in a similar circumstance as another perhaps comparative groups over thinking for example a jury of one's peers a sensually i would think of peers this as people who have some type of nexus to the life experiences of the other person involved or people involved one of the issues that impacts our society most today is what i would call the end  crisis and when i say incarceration crisis i'm talking about the fact that more than two point four million people are currently incarcerated in this country so while the united states holds five percent of the world's population we twenty five percent of the world's prisoners and unfortunately the exploding prison population here in the united states falls most heavily on the african american community african americans are roughly thirteen percent of the population here in the united states but we're roughly forty percent of those who are incarcerated here and when you have a huge percentage of people being incarcerated from a particular racial an ethnic group that impacts the family and impacts the entire community one of the other issues that occurs i would say as sort of a parallel to our exploding prison population is the war on drugs so when i'm thinking about the prison population one might ask the question of well how do we get to this point how did we get to a place where when they spoke about getting tough on crime what they did at that time was to launch what we know of as the war on drugs and through the war on drugs their initial partas was to ensure that high level drug dealers or drug kingpins would be sentenced to lengthy prison terms one of the key things that talked about is the disparity between crack and powder cocaine called one hundred it's a one sentencing disparity so one of  the things that happened as a result of the war on drugs was that if a person was caught with five grams of crack cocaine which is roughly the size of a teaspoon versus a loaf of bread size  of powder cocaine or five hundred grams that would lead to the same five year mandatory minimum prison term and the other aspect of the law that was a little difficult to reconcile with is the fact that without power cocaine you can't make crack cocaine so one of the things that i've always argued it's a fact that we need to actually address the base you know the substance you know of of crack cocaine and treat that differently because again what that powder you you won't have crack so wide treat them both to say if one is the actual cause of the other but one of the things that challenges me most as a lawyer and as a mom is looking at the racial disparities that exist in minnesota i argue that there are two minnesota's one black one white both separate and unequal and that's a real challenge you know to see some of the patterns of racial disparities occurring here ansa feel as though more needs to be done so when or rather than later to address those disparities its attorney in this case and i'll be cross examining potential jurors if you were a defendant in this case would you want someone with your my answer and that would be i would place my credence somewhat they would say and then other people i think in most cases they would be disinterested it's a job that's my opinion i think i will be fair but again i have i have opinions in those areas and i have just said directly i'm not totally sure of how i would react to one of the defendants who is black i've had two or three very traumatic experiences in my life and there were regards to him despite your best efforts i would have more difficulty than i would have some out i'll have some difficulty with that is there anything else in your background or in your view n attorneys and potential jurors can to read in fact all of us have something in common or high tired want to go what i would ask you to do is just answer my question is what i'm trying to do is determine whether or not some of you have potential problems with being a juror in this particular case now the days are they do you very much for being here this morning with do you have any problem with the idea that the state has a responsibility to prove someone guilty i guess not really i question the whole concept but i certainly would follow the instruction and that's because i would find the defendant guilty or not guilty pedo based on what the state i would guess no and one word i have no problems with well we talked about this yesterday if you and i and i and again this is a discussion about how things could be when out on the line here and we were discussing something we would make the discussion and i decision based on our own rules if you're on the jury the judge gives you the rules those be his instructions and you would have no problem filing those would you know probably ok what we're talking is a difference in decision making tools yes ok yesterday we were talking i think you talk with mr  long the other defense attorney at length about the fact that mr holland's being black might affect you these still feel that that may have an effect on your being on this jury i have to say honestly that  in what way do you think it would happen if the do you think there you would have a harder time believing what he said no no i don't think that's the problem do you think the fact that he's charged he's been charged with the crime but based on prime what we've talked about so far the things you've heard in the last couple days and what we've talked about right now you think that you could be fair to mr hollins and mr brown i have to answer the same way i did yesterday i have a question in my mind about ok i'm not saying that it's a blatant thing but i'm questioning myself the question you have is you have a little uncertainly whether or not you could completely put out of your your biases or prejudices and just going back just to cover this area about the biases and prejudices just of vantive you had a bad experience with a black person in the past that would sway you if you're on this jury will it go back to the same question it might but you've had bad experiences i take it with white people have you not yes i don't know whether you're searching for something i mean you know as i said the two worst experiences i've had in my life racial situation but you can see situations where black people and yourself that have no problems absolutely i'm sure your job you deal with black people regularly no i don't know that all but the fact that you don't deal with them  deal with a black person i've had a few dealings with them when you feel comfortable dealing on an everyday basis with a black person i would have no problem with that i would think what you know now you feel you could at least try to be fair to mr howard's well certainly i would try to be fair thank you very much for your candor past this panel for cause thank you attorney well ladies and gentlemen to group to past the first big hurdle with respect to the jurors in this litigate these three attorneys tell me dave taxes panel because what that means is a fine no hard to challenge you under the law in this state with respect to your qualifications or