welcome everyone to the feb ten twenty fifteen planning commission meeting just before we get started on our new business we are moving letter c up to the top just so you know we'll be starting with letter c and her new business hosts communications from the audience for items that are not on the agenda tonight you can come to the podium you know all right and there are no items under unfinished business or table so under new business we are starting with letter c the zoning ordinance text amendments for a new section thirty nine dash seventeen for fair housing accommodation policy city and holland planning commission is the applicant market workers ron ron thank you the the proposed ordinance that's that's on your agenda for a public hearing will add a section if adopted to the holland city code thirty nine dash seventeen point four that's a group of it's in the area of a group of sections that deal with special exceptions for different types of uses  particular would set up a policy for accommodation for persons with disabilities under the fair housing act a federal statute in the city and landlords and others are prohibited from engaging in discriminatory practices and over the years the courts have indicated that zoning rules can be discriminatory practices if they don't accommodate homes for disabled persons in a manner similar to single family residences and i'm probably over simplified in little bit but but that's the general gist of what the case was indicated and so we've drafted a draft of an ordinance here ordinance that takes terms that are really in the fair housing act and the definitions from those terms and put them in the ordinance code allows the  request for reasonable accommodation the ordinance is intentionally left rather flexible in terms of what those accommodations would be because there could be a number of things that could be accommodations that could be allowed to to accomplish the purpose of eliminating any discrimination under the federal statute but probably the primary item that would come up would be the number of people in a single family home becomes a little bit more prominent of an issue with the change of the definition of family for the number of unrelated persons that can reside in in a single family dwelling the recent changes that were made by the council a couple months ago and so this sets up a process  where the an applicant can apply for a special exception or apply for accommodation it defines what needs to be submitted it defines the standards for the sony board to review and are proven and then it c for a prompt decision making on those standards right thank you round as any any planning commissioners have any questions or comments  no i will open a public hearing concerning this item on the agenda come to the podium state your name and address hello my name is jeff and trace my address is six six five hundred thirty sixth avenue suite one hundred holland michigan four nine four two four i've got a  i'm a general counsel to the west michigan association of recovery residences and also general counsel of the building and for life for life is a five a one c three nonprofit domestic corporation we operate the opportunity to meet with them prior to this afternoon's planning commission meeting the the issue that i'd like to address primarily deals with the section of the five hundred feet of a residence that subject to a request for reasonable accommodation the law as far as i can as far as i understand the city staff's position is the that's based upon ohio case federal district court case dealing with the city of toledo the facts in that case are sufficiently different so that i don't think that that's a controlling case the reason for that is that in ohio they have a state statute that specifically allows m to restrict the location of adult foster care homes that's what was dealt with in the ohio case in michigan and in every other state where there's been  determinations of whether the federal law has been impacted negatively by a local municipalities owing ordinance what they have held is that fifteen hundred feet in the state of michigan's larken versus michigan state department of social services was discriminatory thousand feet was discriminatory  there's there is no evidence that i've heard in support of why there's a legitimate state interest legitimate city interest if  answer any questions anybody has i brought extra copies of the of a memorandum i'd like to have put into the record this evening there were some additional issues i had talked to mr van  rijn involved but i think it will be likely be resolved there was an issue about the property owner of the administrative section versus a eligible person in another section and then how do you deal with situations where there is a recovery residence of two recovery residences located within five hundred feet of each other are they both going to be  apply to existing legally existing homes those are grandfathered in done under the provisions and there was also a concern about a different standard for who well actually it's not a zoning issue i was going to comment on but there's a related ordinance it's not zoning that referred to a property owner where this one referred to eligible person applying an eligible person was what was intended that's in this  ordinance so anyone who is a property owner or a tenet of the property could apply to have the accommodation that was one of our discussion just today exactly right when you say grandfather i'm assuming you mean they would be non conforming right if that use was then discontinued that non conforming status goes away yeah this is it once it reaches the point of being abandoned under state law than than tha than conforming use privilege which would go away and keep in mind though that under michigan law it has to be abandoned which means that there has to be evidence of an intent not to continue that use and so even at the property or to sit vacant for a period of time that would necessarily be an abandonment of the use if it was used for some other use for a period of time that would be a strong indication of abandonment thank you anyone else from the audience to speak on this item on the agenda the public hearings to open right this time a closed public hearing discussion among commission members and questions medicare and if i could just interrupt just a moment that what we would suggest is that it there be any discussion that would be great about the ordinance if there are any questions that would be great once a public hearing is closed  to table the matter so we could prepare an appropriate resolution that you could look at adopting at the next meeting ok just to give a person i don't want to leave the public you're an opener and know that you know i need to leave the public hearing open just to get a perspective on five hundred feet in the city limits what would that be turn the mike on here in the central neighborhood area i mean you're you're a five hundred foot separation is basically saying probably one one of these would be eligible per block you know approximately date or yes i believe we are expecting to have a table till the next meeting so we would bring that resolution back then every twenty four hour we have there will probably be a holland board of public works as the applicant and mark you had a presentation on that  eastern part of the downtown area so roughly the eastern half of the property was annexed into the city last year it was a previously in holland township and up but that's all fully annexed into the city you know there is a combination of different zone districts on this property but there really is no no bearing at all on the allowable use and setback requirements and everything else are in line here staff is done e it careful review of the site plan and we are recommending approval of the site plan with some conditions noted in the staff report i'd be remiss to say if this project has not been reviewed and had presentations in put in everything just you know for a long time in think we should really com site and as you see through the presentation it's really kind of a a really awesome kind of architecture to it and it's a wonderful way to treat the land here understanding there was a lot of  there was some probably pain and suffering by folks who had to move to accommodate this location but generally this is you know very much deemed to be for the betterment of the greater holland community as a end is going to be the truly standard bearer for a what you see of brian a next jim power generation so so without any further ado i think we can pass it over to you there dan or  cheryl and we'll go from there so i can do the slides if you want let's start with the sly that you have up and talk about the site a little bit because mark alluded to we aggregated sixty one parcels property for this project twenty seven homes the home families need be relocated i think it was seven businesses and one factory we had to make arrangements with our neighbors to also accommodate the project as mark said it was a very public process we formed a blue ribbon panel to look site layout and to look at the architectural design we had about i think it's twenty two people total that were involved in that process of a period of four months and what progress of a he and h d r before them brought forth is the results of that effort the progress of his work to diligently over the last three months two to three months putting together the plan is you see it it is referred to as holland energy park because it's a power project within a park it is a twenty six acre twenty six point four acre site that the power plant really sits on probably less than half of that it self the surrounding area is intended for public use we will have walking trail they will be eighty eight compliant we will have viewing areas for the wetlands to the north we will have parking for the public the public part of this project is located outside of a security fence because it is a power facility that does need to be secure it will have card access for employees to get in and out security cameras those type of things that will try to keep those as  possible we really want this project to blend in with the park setting and quite frankly not look like your standard power project from a technical standpoint on the power plant i know there's been a concern expressed by the community and to a county road commission is that relates to this similar issue in zealand with a cooling tower we will have a cooling tower is needed to  cool the water that used to collapse steam in our steam turbine but we will have a technology that zealand does not it's called a clear skies technology that actually doesn't eliminate the plume i cannot stand here and tell you there will never be a plume there will be but the percentage of time that this plant will have one is very very small it'll be in the three to five percent of the time they will have a plume and when we do have a luminal be very not to stick in heavy issues see it as he'll in that state of the art technology right now is it adds cost but we also know that we can't shut down chicago drive that wouldn't be a good thing to do so we are addressing that from a noise perspective we've got very tight noise i'll say goals there isn't a zoning requirement relative to noise in this area but we have done baseline noise studies to understand what the noise profile is today with chicago drive and eighth street and various traffic patterns and we're trying to build a plant that changes that as little as possible obviously the hardest part is at night it does get quite a little bit of time but we have some technology that we're utilizing to put in place there relative to the comments that the city departments have we have no issue with those mark spoke about the one i think the only one i talked to mark about was a left hand turn lane it just we won't have a small percentage of the traffic that was there prior to the plant site who we really didn't feel that was necessary they had a comment about the possible disconnect between the site footprint being stated just twenty six point four two acres but the drainage calculations were done for twenty two point one five that is accurate the drainage area for this is twenty two point one five even though the site is a little bit bigger  as i said all the pedestrian pass bridge beam platforms will be eighty eight compliant and as i said we don't have any problem with the subprime market if you could just run through the slides on the various overview so try and you know that's this is essentially an aerial view a looking to the northwest of the plant the cooling towers the objects that's on the right upper right hand corner the trees that are there actually quite a few of them are there right now we save those as part of the demolition process we didn't just go in and flatten all the land we flattened a lot but didn't take down all the trees  main entrances in the lower right hand corner click the next one mark this is the same view same direction but from ground level the main power  or combustion turbans and he recovered steam generator located behind the glass a portion on the left of the plant where the stacks come out the right hand portion is driven towards where we have auxiliary equipment and our offices  this this view is really from the parking lot that we have in place for the public to use to access the site and this is the view is pretty much looking east to west the blast in the area is the administrative building one of the peculiarities of this project to because it is an electric production facility electric production facility in and of itself is not subject to local building code but the admin building is so the admin building and the public access areas will be inspected by dan and will meet code requirements for that but we have a different standard that the power block itself will be built to and that's more of a national standard and we have talked with dan and mark about that and i think we're in violent agreement on the approach to that over view right now the project schedule assuming we get site plan review or approval here in the near future is to be breaking ground having our first full groundbreaking on an april twenty first we will have some more temporary i'll say site facility work done before that but the bulk of our work will start you know in april timeframe we plan on having construction complete in the end of tw sixteen and to be starting the plan up to the end of sixteen should be commercial first part of seventeen with that i'd be glad to field any questions you might have for the path intended for only that's how they're designed as for pedestrians i can't say that we have a plan for that i would leave that up to andy and to mark in the city i mean that's we're building them you tell us how you want to use them how many how long is it how long is the path that you have on the snapper here i don't know that we'd never measured it they're eight feet wide ok and eight feet wide it is i know that it is a wise and it will be delighted it will be lighted with billy d you'll probably have followers for that i would imagine i mean we have parkour so i'm sure you would you don't want people i mean and quite frankly i'm going to let the city determine that we're going to worry mainly about what's within the fence and what's outside of the fence is that relates to how you manage parks and that sort of that or that would be our view of how we'd like to do it ok it's still considered  maintaining park settings and probably wouldn't do that great job by that and so but that is that that is discussions that we need to have with you know the city as to how we do that so the maintenance of the park will become the city proper its responsibility as i said to be determined we may have a stipend or something of the power plant contributes to make sure that we don't put an undue burden on the city and all of those things need to be sorted out martin yeah i think we're  therefore i mean it's a city street obviously now so i that would be about it would be brian white question and they would have to talk with him about that yeah at the intent and if you look at the north side of the project  ok yet the other thing that is going on behind the scenes that isn't part of this project is we are working with maktabi greenway and with travis williams and outdoor discovery center there is a trail path that's going to be going up on the west side of c f sex out through windmill island and a bridge that goes over the black river to holland charter township and there's also i know that  people are working on trying to connect to the seal and trail system this to the east so we're trying to use the power project also as a linchpin between those two travis and kurt are in the process of putting together a  say a position paper a proposal to fund doing a chaconne bore underneath the sea of sex mainline for a tunnel to connect that trail system to the trail system or plant in their also looking at a way to go to the east and i'm not sure how they're going to do that and connect into the ceiling system so that you would have it it may not be sidewalk but it would be a trail system connector that would work through their need ok ok thing that cheryl pointed out to me i forgot to talk about we had disappeared and submitted prior to doing some more design review and we do anticipate putting in twenty three additional employee parking positions on the north side of the plant and i said would say usually i know you folks don't have trouble with more parking it's usually with less but i did what i did want to bring that up marke nor sight but we did want to bring that up because it isn't in your documentation how many more space a family three what was that twenty three twenty three more space and how many employees would use a would be there in a twenty four hour period  somewhere in the mid twenties we haven't settled on a final contention but twenty five to thirty in that neighborhood ok any other questions from commission members i would extend a welcome to the site if you get out that way stop in we usually have coffee on you're more than welcome to it thank you very much this does require a public hearing if anybody would like to come to the podium to speak on this item state your name and address and you five minutes no sorry your base here for another reason i guess all right this time i'll close the public hearing and any discussion among commission members motions would move next item on the agenda is the development plan review for a new mixed use building to be located at five thirty two south shore drive lake mack developers l l c is the applicant mark you stated to already planning commission has in front of you a request from a new viral properties o l see for a site plan review for a new forty five thousand four hundred square foot industrial facility in this is to be located at ten twenty one east forty street so we have in front of you an aerial view of that property it is the last vacant property east fortieth street in the city how and here so you can see the the other industrial properties to the left side of the screened in a in above their productions court in the property in the foreground or the bottom part of the the page and into the east are all enough fillmore township so this is on the fringe of town so the property is owned  these are kind of standard things that you'll you'll see in many of the site plan review reports i want to draw your attention to in the middle of page two of the staff report for that in that is  some comments from the fire department and let me bring up the site plan for that i don't want to hear again i don't want to steal too much of the thunder from the applicant because though they want to give a presentation to which is point you know some some items here the fire department does want some consideration or a basic i think they have a requirement in their fire code for an additional turn around or something in the nature for emergency trucks at the west end of the proposed parking lot up along forty street here  so something will have to be done to accommodate that code requirement of theirs transportation services as noted the that this accept all the drainage in this entire area so technically the storm water review for this whole site will have to be done by that inner current drain board in our city engineer who's that indicated though that from comments also just the one i'll bring to your attention in the applicant will want to bring it up also is they had they are not suggesting a public sidewalk on the property here in sidewalks are a required element of all site plan reviews unless the planning commission waves that requirement here again we looked at this at the study session there is a public improvements to forty street stopped at really kind of the left hand part of the page here and did not continue through through the applicants property so sidewalk was not put in as a part of that city property so that is one item that mom much of a change would happen in the parking area for the fire truck turn around but they would have to come back and since we don't want them to have to come back do we have to specifically say that we're empowering you to make that decision that would be a good thing to do right so if it's a if it's a code requirement in the fire code i mean you can't you can't grant a waiver from that so i would just allow us the fire department of transportation architecture you know has mark highlighted as industrial project and industrial property tulip in our county drain in the northeast corner of everett the property i guess just to give you some background in some of the design features that we looked at as we had nationally looked at this site group with the idea that we would have to drive way access points due to grade and the relief  elevation across the property and we wanted to get the finished floor of the actual building in lower and that secondary drive was really limiting in addition to having some very steep grades and so we are not able to make that work at that point we decided to widen the proposed driveway that you see on the site to allow for both truck turning movement as well as in and out access for you know pedestrians and make sure that there was full use for that driveway as far as the sidewalk request we did prepare a waiver document of request and i guess in that document we are requesting as i said oh a waiver from the requirement to built that side and a couple of reasons for that waiver as the property to the west does not have sidewalks so they would be there would not be new with the sidewalk in addition there is a pretty significant road side to edge that would really make the design and construction of that's had a little bit more challenging on this property another  thought as well as knowing that this is at the edge of the city limits and fillmore township being directly to the east not sure what their requirements are for sidewalk but you know likely that the sidewalk mean i continue east from this point either so i did have a phone conversation with john boehner quite at the fire department and he does have interest in we do have to meet the fire code requirements i discussed with him specifically about the turnaround because we had the same question as well and concern obviously meeting the fire called making sure we're safe however you know looking at other options that we may have knowing that there is not a lot of room on that side of the parking area his comment was the reason for the turnaround needing to be at the end of the parking lot was because of the location of where we had the fire department's access so if we were to move bad either to kind of where the edge of the property where they can access said from the road or if we were to move it on to the southeast corner of the building where they could access from more directly that i turn around with and that be required so i think we will look at other options i guess you know with mars recommendation of conditional approval you know we would ask that the conditional approval be specific to meeting working with the fire department to meet their code not specifically thursday there is one hundred year detention proposed on the site with an outlet continue to the north as the site currently does drain so there was a question about the flood plain on the property in regard to that drain we are currently evaluating and actually that and the q is reviewing a hydraulic study to find two and identify exactly what that floodplain is but we think it's in the range of  six fifty and a half maybe six fifty two ish so where we're trying to figure out exactly what that is and will make sure we address that issue but either way we're not planning to be in that floodplain they just want to make sure that they would be responsible for the cost of preparing those documents or any of the costs associated with granting that easement so and you know as we have residential property on fillmore account shipped to the east of this you know you see that we are proposing a the significant sized landscape in berm that's for two reasons one to screen this industrial use  from the adjacent residential property you know some noise although i from what i understand this won't be allowed facility but in addition it is an area that we are choosing to pa from i guess one other thing i did want to state too as you'll see that this driveway does not have curb and gutter proposed alongside it we originally looked at putting curb and gutter and but then after discussing that with brian white at the city he did e mail us and say due to the type of broadway that and location of where this as that he would not require it because it is one of the few areas in the city that will likely remain  uncurbed roadway with road side ditches where as many other areas within the city obviously have a different standard so that is why you do not see her going to her along this driveway how many employees with the potential of doing maybe three shifts can you come to the microphone can you come to i think potentially there could be three chefs that the i own the property a couple of doors to the west that facility is operating to show us ok first shift of the second shift so more like half a dozen to maybe ten trucks a day  now moving and you letter d and then under a new business development plan review for a new mixed use building to be located at five thirty two south shore drive lake mack developers l l c is the african know let me find the site plan here from lake mack developers l l c for approval of the multi story mixed use building to be located at five thirty two west sixteenth street so you have a plan in front of you right here just to orient you again and hopefully the red arrow showing up here this is sixteenth street right here in the and as you kind of go west this is the bend that kind of starts so short drive and if you go off the straight say here it'll kind of come back into seventeenth street like cross the street is the the  crescent shores marina it's not call that now i think it is called south shore were kind of mediums ok and that is going full guns right  now going vertical up with that property so planning commissioners may remember probably four or five years ago the subject property as well as the economy and property  came into the city and they received a rezoning to the district and also at that time got a development plan review for the residential condominium portion of this that's that's off the screen here the subject property was also rezoned but the puti document that the planning commission approved said when the owner slash applicant is ready to proceed with the building they are likely to get a full site plan review so that's kind of where we are in the puti mechanics of how that's working out so they have in front of you a proposed site plan and i don't believe that we have  floor area in here there is proposed to be outdoor seating area both to the east of the property and to the north side of the property here the west side of the first for us she can see they have an attendant parking along with that and some other things that are that are going on for commissioners background oh no i'll sit down and let the  f tell you about the process you remember at your last meeting or maybe it was even the one before the applicant is requested in the city to vacate a portion of sol shore drive in this area here and the property lines as they exist even right now are a little bit strange to this area the kind of come down through this area here and then kind of bend o so the applicant very much or like to have a more uniform right of way through this area and in this actually this request came to the planning commission you held a public hearing and you forwarded a recommendation to city council to  makes them vacating is in this area and that is in front of city council and i believe is scheduled for a public hearing for their first meeting in march so that's but that's still technically is being worked on additionally on the east side in this area here the city is in negotiation with the property owner here to purchase one hundred feet one hundred foot portion of a larger property that actually extends down to a seventeenth street but we're looking to buy one hundred feet property in this area here ok that is in process that i believe it's the the closing is going to be scheduled sometime in the very near future hopefully within the next week maybe it's when the next couple weeks or so forth but that's for one hundred feet the city is also is included in this we have an agreement to sell the west sixty feet of that hundred foot property to the applicant to make their site the little bit bigger so they can do some some stuff on here there is a santa there now santeria but there's a storm water easement that goes right through the middle of this property too that's kind of limits what the applicant can do on top of that but they're dribble to do some as long as they don't have a building on top of it there the city is probably going to allow them to do some outside seeding and so forth so so at any rate so that that's kind of an overview here a private talk too much i should turn it over to  perfect unusual in this property is is it's the bend of transitionary of the road and part of that too is you head from the north east and come to the southwest there's a great change of relatively it's four feet six feet so part of this is solving that accessibility for barrier free to get into the building so what we've done is there's  the main entrance for the for the main floor restaurant is on the northeast corner of that little bump there and then between the upper terracing seating which is immediately north out of the building and the sidewalk area is a transitional grade area of start to zero and goes to about four feet as you make your way to the northwest corner of the building  and that's really going to be a nice feature as you come by and pass the building in that the grade as you start to climb actually going to give us actually a fall first and then you climb back actually is what's happening so there's those people up on the tables will be separated from the sidewalk people by a graded transition of landscape there the as as the question of what's happening on the west side of the buildings the the primary use of the of the of the building is the made for a restaurant on the west side there's about eight hundred square feet that most likely will be a  restaurant use whether it's a brew pub or deli or something like that that may have separate ours from the main restaurant but a companion use and  we're not looking for somebody else to come in there and it ends up to be a different kind of a service or the whole intention here is that this is is is the restaurant on the main floor we have provided two garages on the south side that are with the stairway between them and so that each of the four units the kind of minium units in the upper level there are two on each floor that are almost  thousand square feet each will have their at least one stall per condominium unit committed to that so parking area to the south is more convenience than it is us trying to accomplish all the parking for the restaurant were this is this is a companion to the potential parking area that the city is involved in and a big portion of our interest here is since the residential condominiums that are going so well and so sure we're we're eager to have a support facility here that brings that food service to  those residents so we're pleased to be getting started with this project and appreciate all the help the cities in terms of making it a real useful piece of land putting all this together elevations here you can see that it's a brick around the main level and then as we get in the into the northeast corner northwest corner at this time we have  warm that residential section up about so lots of glass to the north and then off to the east is an interactive overhead glass door and i'm sure confident you've been seeing that is as a common element between restaurants and their outside areas where you've got a glass overhead door that comes up and allows that inside outside in a certain amount of next year covered area to allow for  guaranteed outside seating even if it's rainy or too sunny so we're where we're pleased with coordinating this building in terms of its character with the kind of mini a project on the water  dumpsters are located in the southeast portion of the property and we're going to separate our residential don't stir from our commercial dr so the each has its own one less city we also own in addition to the forty feet that will own up this property that we're looking to purchase we also own right now one hundred foot wide lot a little further to the east here ok forty parking places in a public parking lot that's going to be a little bit further east in this area here and that's all kind of a part of a larger project kind of a streetscape project  for the businesses seventeenth street and providing more pedestrian connector from the heinz parkway which is up in this area here and getting getting pedestrians down into this neighborhood commercial area so  so there will be much more public parking available here both for existing businesses on seventeenth street and employees and so forth but obviously as well for people that are going to be coming to this establishment here so they are they do have a limited amount of site parking here in will be realigned quite a bit in the new public parking and i just have a few brief concerns about the proposed building project and i'd like to start by telling use a brief history of jackie's place thirty years ago my dad and my grampa purchased the business  that point in time there were five other businesses inside the same building as the business grew we found the parking to be a big challenge for us so my dad and my gra a purchased the building and then they turned the five businesses into an apartment for my grampa i'm a grandma hoping to ease a little bit of the parking constraint it helped a little bit but we still had some issues family video used to be in the building right next to jackie's place and when they moved across the street we purchased that building again in hopes of gaining parking right now we do rent that building out but we have a very reduced rate for it just so that we can him pick the businesses that go in their businesses that don't have a lot of parking lot of customers coming to them we did have a computer business in there at one point in time where he helped people via the internet so then six years ago somebody arson and the restaurant burnt it completely to the ground thankfully the business was paid for in and we did have insurance it was made very clear to us at that point in time that the city wanted us to rebuild on our current spot  even at one point calling us an anchor to this area we did need some variances to rebuild when they were voting on them the city had guaranteed us that all of our current parking would stare privileges for that would be allowed so even though parking had been a challenge and a lot of our parking was on city property in good faith we went forward and rebuilt her the same footprint  well the rebuilding process was happening king's cold which at that point in time we shared the parking lot they decided to move so we purchased that building again and good faith that  current parking privileges would be honored we went into a quarter million dollars to buy the building tear it down and pave it that decision salt a lot of our parking issues and was one of the best things that we could have done fast forwarding to today the parking lot is half paid for we business is the best that it has ever ben we are so excited about all the changes that have happened in our continuing to happen in the so shore village however we are very concerned about how these changes are going to affect the parking for the current businesses that are there  as you know they are proposing the over eighty thousand square foot building and only including about fourteen parking spaces the city wants to put in the parking lot for the forty spaces however when this all sure village project is complete margarita's will be losing most of their parking and they will also have to rely on those forty spaces  as well as the other businesses in that village the laundry mat carols will all be using this same lot to put this into perspective currently jackies place has twenty six tables we have approximately fifty two parking spaces and that works really well for us during peak business times it does get tight with this proposed development we will lose six parking spaces i just i really want to be clear on this that we are not here to try and prevent this we are so excited for the new businesses coming to the area we think that an upscale restaurant will be an awesome thing for our little corner and we love the idea of extending the board walk and adding more green space and lighting in new sidewalks in new traffic to the area means more business for us all in the end however we really do not want to be put back in the same situation that we've lived in for twenty five years we are asking that you consider looking at some ways to re the situation to accommodate everyone and to not create any more major hardships on the businesses in that saucer village thank you mark do you have any you shed new light on how many spaces would be taken away i'm not aware of any spaces quite frankly that are that are going to be taken away there is some on street  parking on the north side of jackie's place as this road kind of wraps around there that the applicant is looking to to kind of clarify show we say the the rather wide open parking situation on the back side of these buildings but the property the africans property line goes right along i mean it's right along here  they are looking to gain some of this area right now that's currently in the city right of way but this is all kind of property that's immediately adjacent to the applicants property so i don't i don't quite know exactly know how were the parking is being removed you can come to the podium where there are red arrow is is a curb that they want to put out an down to the south and where that curb comes around is where a lot of flow comes through our parking lot from sixteenth street  with that curbing being in there we currently have parking along the back they're that in order to keep that flow of traffic those spots will have to be eliminated otherwise with somebody parking in that spot nobody will be able to get through for our customers for people using the turnaround time and even people coming out of your parking lot so how many would you project you will be losing four to six six on the high end parking district here were this is because referring to on street parking at this point yes it's in the public right of way caresses in the public right of way along so short drive here and yes so your sense is that a representation was made that you'd be able to retain that yester when we when we were rebuilding the city voted that we could have all of our parking privileges like we had had before and this was one of them we paved in straight i'm confused is there no parking requirements for buildings in this area yes there are parking requirements yes in fourteen meets the eight thousand square feet with the residential you know no it would not meet the requirements so i mean th the applicant you know here is going to be reliant on public parking to be provided in the slot that will be built to the east and those are reserved dedicated parking for the restaurant no public parking it will be city owned it's a city that goes towards the parking allowance for the eight thousand square feet i'm guessing right i mean it can be used i mean my understanding is you've got a restaurant that's operating in the evening times jack he's predominantly breakfast did you dinners yes there were open until eight o'clock at night ok so there may be some crossover there but i mean the biggest time of traffic is i've experienced has been in that a t m until eleven o'clock noon on a particular saturday or sunday or not sunday because you know weeks and days but saturday being that highest peak that i've experienced personally so  i mean if we're looking at residents i don't know if that's your concern i mean i think that there's there should be seems to be enough happening here i mean if there's a concern with the south shore reconstruction i think that's a question for square footage of building yes ok so joe just brought something up here and i'd be remiss to not say it in our c one neighborhood commercial district ok now this this subject property is  you get a fifty percent credit towards the parking requirement ok so let me tell you what ok so how does that play out the most recent information that we received as far as  floor plan square footage and everything else joy and i came up with the i guess it's fairly accurate saying that they would need to have thirty two onsite spaces  ok if you apply the fifty percent credit that's allowed for c one zone districts then they probably do meet the requirement here because i believe they're providing sixteen on site spaces ok so if we're getting two to technically you know what is the requirement of the ordinance in if we can say through our p d process you know what it makes sense to apply see one district requirement here then technical way they may be meeting their requirement or very close to meeting the requirement of a dozen i mean when they look at the have to meet requirement however you look at it in that they do they do fine i guess yeah that's maybe assault and while we leave this open you should look at well and that's that's one of the things i'm in one of the the items why you know staff is  recommended that this be tabled we do have to come up with a firm kind of parking formula that we suggest for your approval ok whether that's just to go with the c one requirement or if that's to say you know we believe that one pace one space per two hundred square feet in this building is what you should have or whatever it may be and in the rest of it if they can't meet it on site is quite frankly it's going to have to come from on street parking in the area as well as the public parking lot that will be built to the east room to it so i just got done writing all those trucks the building i has no parking requirement so i pay a significant assessment for parking lot made of snow removal things like that will that sort of thing to be happening just to be clear for those at home watching on t v or those in the audience my name's joe di i work alongside mark danner police on the third floor just to be clear reiterate what mark said recommendation is the table one of the reasons to recommend it ever tabling this is some of the concerns that some of the businesses have in this area about parky the business is actually meeting tomorrow morning to talk about some other issues this obviously is going to be on their agenda to talk about mark mentioned the parking requirement for here we would probably typically go to the c one requirement since the area surrounded by c one through a p u g or purity would have this zoning is i believe the planning commission has the right to determine what the parking yell the number of spaces should be so the ball kind of falls into your court planning staff which you know mark and myself as we need just a few more weeks to digest what this plan is in front of us in addition the parking we also have an ingress egress access that we kind of have to work our arms around as jackie's place mentioned you know earlier when that fire occurred there was some general comments that were made at that about allowing them to continue their on street parking as it was back then if you look at google maps or if you've given by there you're see there's a lot of yellow stripes along that south shore drive right away this is another area where staff just kind of need to take a step back work with the merchants in that area to talk about how this park it all come together and we got to that proposed parking lot yes on the table is an assessment you know an annual assessment idea where they would be charged for the maintenance of that area including pedestrian walkway trees etc and that's the main reason why they're meeting tomorrow to talk about what's the best y l means to create that assessment well movie table thank you with the public with the public hearing opens to the public hearing will remain open and this will be tabled until which means we will discuss this again we are not going to necessarily make a motion we can make a motion on it tonight and it will be at our march ten meeting march tenth or i was in favor by night so we will revisit this on march ten right and you election of officers yeah i think here again with election of officers there's a few of you that are not eligible to be an officer and obviously the mayor cannot be an officer brian cannot be an officer and i believe in india is not eligible to be an officer either because he's a senior staff member for perhaps city management so can we postpone this to our next regular meeting since we're so white all right but we're doing this now but marvin can marvin you that's why you need more because marvin can't nominate himself that's again well you you should you should do the first nomination no comment getting a public hearings we did that already the there aren't any new ones communications from commission members communications room staff requests to spend us a special study session for february twenty four