subcommittee will come to order this morning the subcommittee convenes a legislative hearing on two measures related to the availability of the wireless spectrum which is essential to meeting our future needs for mobile communications services the movement of personal communications to mobile services is both dramatic and accelerating earlier this year it was announced that for the first time that number of homes having only a cellphone and landline service now exceeds the number of homes having only a landline had no cellular service at the end of two thousand and eight there were approximately two hundred seventy million wireless subscribers in the nation including at an estimated forty million active users of mobile internet services daily new attractive and useful applications are added to wireless services and data rates continue to increase as consumers require faster access to mobile communications as more and more americans use data intensive smartphones and services like mobile video emerge the demand for spectrum to support these applications and devices will continue to grow dramatically today the subcommittee continues its examination of possible ways in which federal telecommunications policy can be altered in order to meet these challenges with the goal of enhancing the consumer experience and facilitating the future growth of mobile services in july i was pleased to join with chairman waxman full committee ranking member barton and subcommittee ranking member stearns and introducing h r thirty one twenty five the radio spectrum inventory act frequency allocations between two hundred twenty five megahertz and ten gigahertz the inventory would include the identity of both federal and on federal users of spectrum and the types of services they offer and each spectrum band as well as the amount of use in each band on a geographic basis when the inventory is completed the in cia and the f c c would create a website and order to make the information gleaned from the inventory of a level to the public they would report the results of the inventory to the congress and that report would include a description of information that could not be made publicly available for nationals security reasons it would also include a recommendation of which if any of the least utilized blocks of spectrum should be reallocated for commercial uses the creation of the inventory is an essential step in making available more spectrum for commercial and wireless services and meeting the extraordinary spectrum demands that our nation will soon face i've also joined our colleagues jay inslee and fred upton in introducing the spectrum relocation improvement act this measure would address an urgent need which was brought to light after the f c c auctioned the advanced wireless spectrum the a ws spectrum in two thousand and six while that spectrum was optioned more than three years ago the winners of the commercial licenses still do not have full access to the spectrum because it's not been fully cleared by the government users the bill that we have jointly introduced would hasten the process of clearing federal users from spectrum that the government has reallocated for commercial purposes it would require the entity aid to publish the transition plan of each federal entity to be relocated after a spectrum auction and it would clarify the steps that federal spectrum users must take in order to receive payment for their relocation costs from the spectrum relocation fund including of requirements that the spectrum fully be reallocated been vacated by the federal users within one year my goal is to have both of the end been tory legislation and the bills speeding the reallocation of previously option to government spectrum through the committee and through the house at the earliest possible time i want to thank our witnesses for joy you know us this morning we look forward to your testimony and your views on the future debate on for wireless spectrum the ways in which we can take constructive steps in order to meet those challenges that concludes my opening statement please now to recognize the ranking republican member of our subcommittee the gentleman from florida mr stearns good morning in the thank you mr chairman you've mentioned both of these bills and you've talked about what they do so we're very pleased to have this hearing i'm a co sponsor of both of these bills original co sponsor it is very clear that united states will need additional spectrum to meet the growing demand for wireless broadband in fact we may be dictums of our own success here the united states currently leads the world in wireless wireless providers have used spectrum to provide us cut consumers with innovative voice and data services the number of mobile voice customers in the united states has surpassed the number of wireline customers and the number of mobile broadband customers has increased exponentially over the past several years as customers increase the amount of time they spend on their mobile devices talking emailing and surfing the internet cell sites become constrained for capacity for capacity as a result providers need more spectrum especially in order to increase the speed of mobile broadband services we are facing in the words of the f c c chairman a looming spectrum crisis for example a voice call requires approximately ten thousand bits per second while uploading and downloading video downloading video requires millions of deaths per second countries will need a one point three one million three hundred thousand mega bert megahertz of spectrum dedicated for commercial use by the year two thousand and fifteen according to the international telecommunications union yet the united currently has only five hundred megahertz allocated and only fifty megahertz in the auction pipeline so in order to increase the amount of spectrum available for commercial mobile services the administration and the f c c need to inventory the current uses a spectrum bands especially those below three gigahertz that are ideal for mobile services the bottom line is that we need to know who uses which spectrum bands and the purposes for which they use such bands once we have the answers to these questions the government needs to decide whether to reallocate spectrum for commercial mobile users if the government is requiring existing spectrum users to vacate reallocated bands the government also need to establish a meaningful process for reallocating incumbent users the process needs to begin sooner rather than later inventory reallocation and reallocation all take time and commercial mobile demand for spectrum is increasing as i mentioned exponentially furthermore furthermore one way to make more spectrum available for commercial purposes is to use government spectrum more efficiently and simply reallocate the spectrum saved that was the idea behind the commercial spectrum enhancement act which is an active in two thousand and four the laws designed to provide funding to upgrade the wireless resources of government agencies while clearing additional spectrum for commercial use while the c s c government frequencies identified for reallocation or auction to commercial licenses and the proceeds are used to improve the real relocating agency's wireless facilities pursuant to the c s c and the f c c held the advanced wireless service one auction in two thousand six of the thirteen point seven billion raised by the w s auction approximately one and has been spent to reallocate the wireless operations of twelve federal agencies the reallocation procedures outlin c worked well in most cases but some problems have cropped up for example t mobile paid four point two billion to build a three g network the department of defense and the drug enforcement agencies are behind scheduling and clearing some of the spectrum however because of unforeseen costs and complex cities in their moves which have been compound by the confidential nature of some of the agency's activities problems like these have prevented the bidders from fully realizing the benefits of their investment in the time frames originally promised and they discourage participation in future reallocation auctions h r thirty one thousand will make the process since they will have increased revenue from the option and a better plan transition thank you mr chairman for holding this hearing i look forward to hearing from the witness thank you very much mr stearns the chairman of the full committee the gentleman from california mr waxman is recognized for five minutes thank you mr chairman i want to thank you for holding this important legislative hearing on two bills that if adopted will create incentives for efficient spectrum utilization and enhance our ability to develop forward looking spectrum policies ongoing developments in wireless broadband technology along with increased consumer demand have raised questions about the sufficiency of current spectrum allocations for wireless communications services so i'm experts estimate that the wireless industry in the us needs with additional one hundred fifty mega her of spectrum to simply keep up with the explosion in wireless data usage and to remain competitive with other nations before we can start identifying bands of spectrum that might be made made available for these new services however we need to understand how existing spectrum is allocated and utilized in simple terms we need better information about specter of usage by federal and nonfederal entities accordingly in july of this year a bipartisan group of eighteen energy and commerce committee members introduced h r thirty one twenty five the radio spectrum inventory act this legislation represents a critical first step in developing a forward looking spectrum policy h r thirty one twenty five  simply about making spectrum use and allocation transparent it would direct the national telecommunications information administration and the federal communications commission to develop a publicly available inventory of users and usage in the most valuable spectrum bands the bill also directs the agencies to examine whether there is underutilized spectrum that might be reallocated for more efficient uses of course a comprehensive look at spectrum must be sensitive to military uses and the need to protect information about such uses the bill therefore establishes a procedure by which information pertaining to national security will continue to be safeguarded the committee will continue to work with the department of defense to make sure that we are sensitive to any concerns regarding our national defense i would also like to express my general support for h r thirty hundred the spectrum relocation improvement act of two thousand and nine i commend representatives initially and upton for introducing this thought legislation to improve the current spectrum relocation by the flow of information and resources as well and as it heads transparency thank you again mr chairman for holding this hearing i look forward to working with you as we move these important bills forward thank you very much waxman the gentleman from illinois mr schenck us is recognized for two minutes thank you mr chairman and appreciate the hearing i would say that we need to be working on d block d block d block if we can't get the d block right how in the heck are we going to do other allocations of other spectrums and my focus on the d block is as everyone knows being involved with the ninety one caucuses in mearns he's services and communication and hopefully my colleague and i will show and and even jane harman and will say shame on us if we have a next disaster and we're not ready to communicate effectively shame on us if we have another nine eleven shame on us if we have another katrina and we have sheriff's departments not talking to firefighters we have firefighters not talking to the national guard so i appreciate this focus  and we all understand the importance of having an immaturity but if we can't get the d block right in a timely manner who are we kidding ourselves so i would hope mr chairman and and and the full committee chairman that we would really work on the parameters to push for appropriate and proper option in which we get all the benefits we bring in the additional revenue but we also develop the revenue streams which will allow us to provide grants and money to our first line responders to get this one important aspect of our homeland security issues in debate in line and now you time thank you very much mr sam because the chairman emeritus of the full energy and commerce committee the gentleman from michigan mr dingell is recognized for five minutes thank you mr chairman and thank you for conveni today's hearing on h r three one two five the radio spectrum inventory act and h r three zero one nine the spectrum relocation improvement act of two thousand and nine these two bills of which i am an original co sponsor will aid the federal administration allocation of spectrum a commodity of increasing importance especially given recent advances in mobile broadband services like all the rest of us i am concerned about the allocation about the future and also about what we have done so far and whether it has contributed a proper use of the spectrum for the future and for all of our people these two lead pieces of legislation sure complementary to the federal communications commission duty to represent to present to the congress a national broadband plan as mandated under the american reinvestment and recovery act to be certain the success of the development of such a plan and the implementation of its recommendations will be facilitated no mean degree by a clear and better understanding of the spectrum available for us and a better and a more efficient process by which to allocate it for commercial use this i believe will be accomplished in large part by the act or the bills pending the could be these consideration today with this in mind i welcome our witnesses and look forward to hearing their views on the legislation before us in particular i hope they will engage television broadcasters to bubble communication providers as a part of a national broadband plan thank you very khurshid mr chairman and i commend your good for this hearing and the foresight that you're showing with it back the balance of my time thank you very much chairman dingell the gentleman from oregon mr walden is recognized for two minutes thanks very much mr chairman first of all thank you for holding a legislative hearing on these two bills i think that's really important an improvement of our process to have this oversight before we mark i want to welcome my senator gordon smith who has taken over the reins at the national association of broadcasters i'm still his congressman even if he's not now my senator but we've been friends and colleagues in the legislative arena in oregon  here for many years and we welcome you at the n a b and now that i've sold our broadcast stations and you've gone to the broadcasters i'm going to go into p packing i want to point out a couple of things first of all i concur with my colleague from well as we evaluate the value of spectrum understand that when nine eleven happened when contrary to happened when other communication system failed and even any day when there's a hurricane or a disaster anywhere in the world it is frequently the amateur radio operators who step to the fore with their own equipment and provide the emergency communication when everything else fails it's hard to put a value on that unless you can put a value on saving lives and and helping our law enforcement community and our rescue community get through really difficult times so they're there when needed all the time and so that needs to be a part of what we consider regarding the f c c is notice i'm very concerned about what i'm reading and regarding professor benjamin comments and his paper he is now a very top advisor to the chairman of the f c c and i hope this committee will look at some of the things he's had to say including how every dollar of additional cost for broadcasters one less dollar for profit and loss reduces the attractiveness of the over the air broadcasting as a business model for regulation would tend to entrench broadcasting place on the spectrum then the regulation will not help free up spectrum and should be avoided in other words he's calling for the death of over the air free broadcasting which i think is a real abomination and we'll get into that more i know my time's expired mr chairman and i look forward to hearing from our witnesses thank you very much mr walden and  chair now recognizes the gentleman from pennsylvania mr doyle's for two minutes thank you mr chairman chairman for holding this important hearing i'm going to waive opening statement look forward to hearing from the witnesses thank you mr doyle we've all had two minutes to your question time for our designing these new internet broadband services of the next generation is very important to a lot of my neighbors people i represent it's important to the country as a whole for job creation possibilities president obama has recognized broadband infrastructure investment has tremendous job potential but we know we're going to have to have additional allocation of spectrum for commercial use to really reach the fruition of the tremendous promise here in order to first identify that spectrum i want to commend chairman waxman for his inventory bill which is a first step  of an original co sponsor look for to get that done as a first step but once the spectrum is identified and ready for auction we really have to assure that procedures are in place this time to adequately guide the auction process in two thousand and seven there in the two thousand advance wireless services auction the process and reporting requirements were insufficient to appraise the length complex complexity and size of federal relocation efforts they also failed to ensure a timely transition of spectrum by federal agencies and business playing by commercial betters it's this very problem that the bill that the prime sponsor and seeks to address fundamentally are builded two things first it increases the amount and quality of information available to potential bidders before an auction occurs and second it expedites the flow of auction proceeds to the relocating agency to keep the relocation process on track i'm convinced that this more complete information about the affected federal agencies systems their relocation cost estimates and schedules will reduce the risk for potential bidders will ensure timely relocation payment and movement by federal agencies and will ensure that the next generation of consumer demand is services are delivered it will not cure the common cold otherwise it sounds pretty good i want to thank my colleagues mr upton and jim about your for their work on this advancing this and i look forward to moving this that we can really fulfill the promise of our brilliant constituent thank you thank you very much mr emsley the gentleman from nebraska mr terry is recognized for two minutes thank you mr chairman for holding this legislative hearing and i look forward to hearing our witnesses we have to make sure that we do this right and balance with the spectrum that's used in the military i have the pleasure of representing the fifty fifth wing which is an electronic warfare and information operation out of office air force base right outside of on bellevue and i have a letter from the association of old crows that set out some of the issues that we may be discussing here with the spectrum and i'd like to i offer that letter into the record mr chairman i without objection then why i asked in our committee memorandum it starts off with the introduction criticising the universal service fund and calling it ineffective and then the second paragraph also starts off with the universal service or somehow universal service fund is important  minutes thank you mr chairman thank you for calling this important hearing today and i'd also like to thank today's witnesses for being with us today we're here today to discuss how we can promote greater transparency on spectrum issues for expediting the process in which can allocate additional spectrum in the marketplace according to recent estimates there are approximately two hundred seventy million wireless a scribe and united states but that number is growing according to recent reports the current economic recession has increased the number of consumers opting for only cell phones over traditional landlines there is concern that the current allocation of spectrum for mobile broadband services is inadequate to meet the rapidly growing demand in  c recently warned of a potential special crisis that could threaten the expansion of broadband services while the d t v transition help free up more spectrum the need for commercial spectrum capacity will only expand as broadband continues to be both of legislation moving forward spectrum availability will be key to ensuring competition improve public safety may growing demand for wireless services and any proposal going forward should ensure under served to welcome the panel that is before us today we're delighted that you're here and i'm also delighted mr chairman that we are talking about legislation that actually represents what is a balance give and take and is not something we often do and this congress all too often we're talking about taking from the american taxpayer and giving to big business but today we're going to be talking about raising money from big business through an equal exchange value for a commodity in this represents good policy and good government and i'm pleased we're having the hearing as we plot a strategy on how we move forward on broadband and how to best utilize the have heard who have long advocated for an effective and a fish an inventory an assessment of what is available and how we best use it and how we best allocated i think it is important mr shimkus mentioned a block and some of the work that needs to be done as we learned some lessons from that approach we know that this is a robust industry we know that well over eighty percent of consumers are happy with their wireless service according to a recent g a o study that's pretty good eighty percent of people like the product that is there and that is available and there is ample motivation to get as much information as possible on spectrum availability and evaluate all of our options for relocations so i'm pleased we are bringing many different part of this discussion together today and i intended to make are to help our country make better use of our spectrum h r thirty one twenty five the radio spectrum inventory act will provide for the gathering of information about spectrum used to increase transparency and help us understand exactly how the spectrum is now utilized this is those small tasks but it's absolutely essential to make informed decisions on allocating spectrum to meet the ever increasing demand for wireless broadband spectrum it has been reported that the u s allocation of spectrum compares poorly with o e c d nations and is inadequate to meet the growing demand we can't let that happen we're going to do the best we can to help industry take the lead and make our our nation lead the world in broadband age our thirty nine spectrum allocation reallocation proven extreme lines the spectrum auction process and will reduce the time required to reallocate federal spectrum cleared for commercial use allowing licensees to utilize their spectrum without unnecessary delay as a co sponsor of both of these bills i recognize the importance of properly managing available spectrum i also understand that the sponsors of h r thirty one twenty five are working with the department of defense to ensure that the bill also protects our ongoing military use of spectrum i look forward to working with my colleagues to approve this legislation i think the witnesses for questions the gentleman from the gentle lady from the virgin islands ms christiansen is recognized for two minutes thank you mr chairman i'm going to statement and put it in to the record i'd like to welcome the witnesses especially senate smith i believe is here for the first time thank you thank you ms that is tense and the gentleman from massachusetts mr markey is recognized that thank you mr chairman and thank you so much for having this hearing back this committee moved over two hundred megahertz of spectrum and and we created the third fourth fifth and sixth cell phone license they all went digital and by one thousand nine hundred ninety six the price had dropped to under ten cents a minute the first two companies had moved to digital as well and we had a revolution that was ongoing and it was so successful that right now there are people sitting out here in the audience checking their blackberry rather than listening to my opening statement and that's and that's a tribute that's a tribute to what our committee made possible and now we're on to the next stage of this revolution where we know that the who do revolution is something that continues on this committee should be very proud of it and that by reallocating even more spectrum well will make it possible for the entrepreneurs will make it possible for these technology geniuses to once again again brand a revolution made in america we have to stay ahead of this curve we have to make sure that it is something that is american we did that in the one nine hundred ninety s we have a chance to do it again  congratulate you mr chairman for your work on this issue it was bipartisan then it should be bipartisan again we're into a wealth creation that's what this is all about and the more effectively that we can think this issue through which is what you're doing is the more likely that we will create the greatest amount of wealth that will help our country become more prosperous and i thank you for doing that thank you very much mr marke ohio mr space is recognized for two minutes and thank you mr chairman in welcoming our witnesses i too would waive my opening thank you very much mr space that concludes opening statements from members of the subcommittee and we now welcome our panel of witnesses this morning we are pleased to have each of you with us today and we very much look forward to your testimony just a brief word of introduction about each of our witnesses dr dale had field is an adjunct professor with the interdisciplinary telecommunications program at the university of colorado steve largent former member of the house of representatives and former member of this committee is the president and chief executive officer of the cellular telecommunications industry association of the wireless association mr michael calibra vice president and director of the wireless future program at the new america foundation former senator gordon smith we welcome to this committee for the first time in his new role as president of the national association of broadcasters and we look forward to a long and successful partnership with you dr ray johnson is the senior vice president and chief technology officer of the lockheed martin corporation and mr thomas trial is the chief executive officer of shared spectrum company we welcome each of you without objection your prepared written statement will be made a part of the record and we would ask that you keep your oral summaries to approximately five minutes mr hatfield will be happy to begin with you to testify on the topic of radio spectrum management and particularly on the issues raised by h r thirty one twenty five and by h r thirty nineteen my name is dale hatfield in addition to the zation that you just  the executive director of the silicon slattern center for law technology and entrepreneurship but the university of colorado at boulder i should note in the past that i have engaged in independent consulting activity devotees including for some members present some background on spectrum management and then focus on five overarching themes points it is those five points that i will briefly summarize now first i have been involved in band been involved in spectrum management issues for over four decades and it's very clear to me that we are now at an end press precedented period of demand for access to spectrum in the critical frequency range of roughly three hundred megahertz to three gigahertz this increase in demand for spectrum is propelled by increases in the number of uses of this resource in the number of users and the amount of bandwidth their capacity consumed per user or use while the  exponential growth in commercial sites a band with requirements is the most perhaps the most visible there are a host of other increasing demands for spectrum in this range as well including ones that support important ones that support public safety homeland security and national defense priorities thus in my opinion the spectrum scarcity issue that the legislation sets out to address is very real second in my written testimony i review five traditional techniques that we have used in the past to accommodate growth in demand for the resource one going higher and frequency to improving the technical efficiency of spectrum utilization three reallocating existing spectrum from one use to another for increasing the amount of spectrum sharing and five reusing spectrum more intensely and in the geographic dimension i conclude that  for reasons going higher in frequency will be of limited utility in solving the current spectrum crisis associated with wireless mobile data and then while further improvements in technical efficiency can help are apt to be inadequate in solving the problems associated with the order of magnitude increases in spectrum demand that leads reallocation increase sharing and more intense frequency reuse at least in some services as potential service solutions ones with unique challenges of their own third setting aside spectrum alex reallocation for the moment i next focused on increased sharing and more intense frequency reuse with regard to the former comment favorably on past steps that the f c c has taken to encourage voluntary sharing of the resource through secondary markets i go on to conclude that a combination of increased incendies or mandates for spectrum sharing coupled with more decentralized more opportunistic and more technologically sophisticated techniques for accessing spectrum can be a significant help in avoid crisis in terms of increased frequency reuse i first note that it's not always possible because the nature of some services now there is some services like radar require a very high power operating over long distances and therefore you can't realty fourth comment that i am a strong supporter of conducting the spectrum inventories called out in h r thirty one twenty five and hans for the legislation itself because i'm a strong believer in that old adage you can't measure what you can't manage what you don't measure it's simply it's that simple i could go on to want to conclude that a calm prehensile of an ongoing inventory is necessary to support two of the most promising of the three ways of averting a spectrum crisis that is reallocation and increased sharing this i observe that while i am a strong supporter of conducting spectrum inventories i also noted based on many years of experience that there are potential shortcomings associated with a paper study at least in some services therefore i conclude that the end of a tory mandate in the proposed legislation should be augmented by selected field measurements to gain additional information on actual use in those bands and those bands as identified as being the most promising for reallocation or increase sharing that concludes my oral testimony chairman i'd be happy to respond to any questions that you subcommittee thank you very much mr hatfield mr large and will be happy to hear from you thank you mr chairman and i want to thank you and ranking member and say to all the  members hope you have a merry christmas happy new year hope you get there so i want to thank you for the opportunity also to share the wireless industry's views on the radio spectrum amatory act and the spectrum relocation improvement act these bills are much needed bookends for a process that will enable additional spectrum to be made available for the wireless broadband an initiative and other services today the united states is the world leader in wireless broadband while having less than seven percent of the global wireless subscribers the is home to more than twenty percent of global three g subscribers are one hundred twelve million three g subscribers are more than any other country and more than the third fourth fifth and sixth countries combined additionally the most advanced wireless devices which are manufactured by global companies and could be launched anywhere in the world routinely debut in the u s marketplace as a pair of former administrators recently noted the convergence of mobile wireless services and high speed internet access and the evolution of handsets from telephones to powerful handheld computers promises to transform the way we work learn the liver healthcare manage energy consumption and enhance public safety the key to translating this promise into reality is access to more spectrum i believe there is an urgent need to identify additional spectrum that can be made available for wireless broadband and other advanced w services by providing for a comprehensive and timely inventory of spectrum below ten gigahertz enactment of h r thirty one twenty five would representative important step towards meeting rapidly accelerating demand and maintaining u leadership in the global wireless marketplace how much spectrum do we need the i do you projects that by two thousand and fifteen developed countries will need at least thirteen hundred megahertz of spectrum for commercial wireless operations since the united states currently has less than five hundred megahertz of spectrum available for commercial wireless services we have asked the f c c to identify additional spectrum that can be reallocated to help us meet the benchmark many of our trading partners are taking steps towards this goal and the u s needs to keep up if we're to stay ahead of properly constructed inventory effort is a sound place to start the inventory is only the first step however once the  policy makers must use it to reallocate spectrum for advanced wireless services history demonstrates that it can take a decade or more to reallocate spectrum for commercial use and put such spectrum in the hands of providers of commercial mobile services more than a decade given the exploding demand for mobile broadband we must move more quickly than was the case with either a to b s or seven hundred megahertz efforts we simply can't wait until two thousand and twenty or beyond we recognize there will be critics of the effort to move forward with an m a tory and reallocation of spectrum they will claim that carrier should be more efficient with the spectrum already available that we can build our way out of the problem or that we that we have already seen an expansion in the amount of spectrum available for commercial services through the recent a b s and seven hundred megahertz options there are sound reasons why the subcommittee should dismiss these criticisms and i have discussed these in my written testimony written statement finally  is complete and spectrum is identified for reallocation and auction the improvements to the spectrum relocation process proposed by h r thirty nine he will ensure that the relocation process works smoothly for all parties thank you for opportunity to discuss these matters with the subcommittee we look forward to working with you to ensure the u s wireless industry continues to serve as an engine for jobs economic growth and the american competitive advantage thank you mr chairman thank you mr large good morning first i'd like to thank the committee's leadership for taking up these two very complimentary and important pieces of legislation on a notably bipartisan basis a national goal of not merely affordable broadband access but of seamless mobile connectivity anywhere in any time will require an enormous increase in available spectrum capacity the apple i phone has proven to be the canary in the proverbial spectrum mine advanced smartphones consume hundreds of times of bandwidth of ordinary cell phones with sufficient spectrum pervasive kind of to be will rapidly become integrated as well in applications for sensing networks mobile health monitoring energy conservation education and more this exploding demand and the continued focus on exclusive licensing by option has served to reinforce the conventional wisdom that spectrum is scarce in reality the only scarcity is government permission to use bactrim that is licensing spectrum capacity itself is very abundant even in the most valuable beachfront frequencies below three gigahertz actual spectrum use measurements show that the vast majority of frequency bands are not being used in most locations and at most times this gross underutilization of the nation's spectrum resource should be an urgent concern spectrum is not only in the mentally valuable on publicly owned resource but it's one that's infinitely renewable every millisecond that is why new america and the broader public interest spectrum coalition that we work with strongly support in ackman of h r thirty one twenty five the radio spectrum inventory act we agree that the that the more comprehensive in inventory described in the house bill is needed a more granular and comprehensive description of spectrum use in each market will assist policymakers entrepreneurs and technologists to propose new ways to enhance both access and efficiency we also agree it is important to extend the inventory up to ten gigahertz as the house bill provides spectrum mapping would help facilitate expanded access to broadband then at least three ways first by improving the functioning of secondary markets for license transfers and leasing second it will and it will provide information on what it would take to clear some very underutilized bands for new uses and third and perhaps most important it will reveal the far greater number of frequency bands that can be made available for shared access in discrete geographic areas at certain times of the day or year or at certain altitudes or power levels we expect rural areas to be the most likely and immediate beneficiaries of this mapping the way one shortcoming of h r thirty one twenty five in our view is that the is that an inventory of spectrum assignments should be augmenting by actual spectrum use measurements as as as dale just mentioned measurements and eventually a spectrum of system spectrum use monitoring can provide a more nuanced window into how when where and to what extent bands are actually in use we realize that measurements at a budgetary budgetary cost fortunately we believe appropriated funds are available over the next four years for a very robust implementation of the inventory act as part of the recovery act congress appropriated three hundred fifty million dollars for a quote comprehensive nationwide inventory map of the nation's existing broadband capabilities since n t i a were awarded less than half the available funding to the states for broadband mapping congress could clarify that a portion of the remainder be used to inventory the airwaves as well we also strongly support h r thirty nineteen the spectrum relocation improvement act nowhere in spectrum underutilization more evident than in many of the bans reserved for use by the federal government itself while we support h r thirty nineteen we also believe the legislation should be broadened to take advantage of a critical opportunity to free up far greater spectrum capacity h r thirty nineteen would continue to limit eligibility for radio system modernization to agencies actually clearing off a set of frequencies while only a tiny fraction of federal spectrum could be cleared in options in the near future a far greater number of bands could be shared more intensively by taking advantage of advances in smart radio technologies federal spectrum incumbents need the resources to take affirmative steps to an nabl more intensive access and ban sharing by other users this could be a real win win for the military knew an upgraded federal systems could be designed in particular with the broader public interest in spectrum access in mind and not only in the very limited case of a band being clear d for auction i'll stop there thank you very much and i'll be pleased to take any questions thank you mr calibrates mr smith mr chairman ranking member stearns members of this honorable committee it is indeed a pleasure and a privilege for me to be before you to speak a few thoughts about spectrum on behalf of the national association of broadcasters first to any b believes that any inventory spectrum should be comprehensive let's look at all the bands and all the services including the federal government bans and let's view how each service is using its existing spectrum second our national priorities should recognize the value that free over the air broadcasting brings to every american broadcasting and broadband are not either or propositions as some suggest i believe that's a false choice third we should challenge all services to be efficient and innovative users of spectrum through our recent transitional to did transition to digital broadcasting has become more efficient with your help the transition was a resoundingly success and the benefits are remarkable in the digital world viewers receive many new programming streams in a wide variety of content and local news in high definition it would be shortsighted to stunt that growth and dampen what is an even brighter future for broadcasting if broadcasting is limited or a lemonade consumer investments and alone millions of other americans invested time effort and funds on converter boxes and the u s government spent two billion dollars to help them with this the broadcasters spend an additional ten billion dollars to make the transition for years consumers have been promised that the digital upgrade would assure and a new era of high quality television with new and more diverse programming more channels and a host of new services all for free and over the air if as some advocate that this all be done away with consumers would realize none of these benefits through the d t d transition brought back broadcasters gave back a hundred and eight megahertz of spectrum broadcast television is the first wireless service to ever substantially reduce its spectrum use while providing an increase in services then there's mobile the t v this year the television industry adopted a new mobile digital television standard turning on the green light for manufacturing and implementation and the results are nothing short of stunning members of the committee this is a mobile this is a mobile t v right now it's playing a program from n b c there are seven channels in the washington d c metropolitan area that are doing this it's also a cell phone and this combination of technologies is i believe the future of mobile wireless communications it is not an exaggeration to say that you will soon be able to receive broadcast television signals almost on almost any device this is a an example soon your blackberry will be a t v your i phone could be a t you name it we are on the cusp of it and to short circuit it now it seems to me would be very unwise broadcasting's ability and this is very important to understand broadcast ability to serve one to many in small band with segments is unique among all services at moments of national significance or tragedy when millions of americans are seeking information broadcasting is the most efficient delivery system with each new viewer broadcasters uses the spectrum becomes more efficient without any additional burden on spectrum by contrast with wireless broadband each stream of content to every individual places an additional strain on on the wireless network clogging up the bandwidth and there's more for example a company called says me is working with broadcasters to provide a blended broadcast broadband system if you haven't seen this members i urge you to do it that system is more affordable high quality and an alternative a more affordable alternative to cable and satellite a comprehensive objective examination of spectrum allocation and usage which is a worthwhile endeavor such an analysis if done forthrightly and without bias will demonstrate that broadcasters continue to be the effective because stowed eons of our nation's airways many broadcast services have not been and cannot be efficiently replicated by broadband services broadcasters for example help to save lives through timely coverage of natural disasters and other emergencies and by coordinating with local law enforcement officials and alerts broadcasters have participated in the recovery of four hundred and ninety two abducted children mr smith if you could wrap up your a bit beyond your time here let's not forget the concerns we all share during the d t v transition we spent a lot of time to get it right and we did it so that economically disadvantaged the elderly rural and ethnic minorities are not left out with access to critical news and information and finally mr chairman if my statement is in the record i think it is important that when you consider highest and best use and you put all of these public values and the value of broadcasting is self evident thank you sir thank you very much mr smith dr johnson chairman belcher ranking member stearns and members of this subcommittee good morning and thank you for inviting lockheed martin corporation to participate in today's hearing on the radio spectrum inventory act my name is dr ray johnson and i lucky martin senior vice president and chief technology officer my role in the corporation provides me with a broad perspective of important spectrum issues relevant to the discussion today appreciate the opportunity to contribute and i am honored to offer input that may help inform your consideration of these important policy matters lucking martin is a global security company that employs approximately one hundred forty thousand people in all fifty states we are principally engaged in the research design development manufacturing integration and sustainment of advanced technology systems products and services and most of these systems and solution solutions depend on access to the spectrum that we're discussing our customers include a broad aware array of agencies both military and civil for whom we support diverse critical security missions both at home and abroad at any given time lockheed martin corp holds approximately four hundred f c c authorizations for a variety of uses including experimental ices licenses enable the testing of new technologies as well as new applications being applied to existing technologies as a general matter spectrum scarcity is not a problem that is unique to f c c licensees based on our understanding and federal government users are experiencing the same pressure as they are required to meet increasing demands of their critical roles and missions therefore it's an important balance that h r thirty one twenty five achieved by requiring an inventory of both federal and non federal spectrum resources to be conducted by the f c c and the n t i a although our own activities throw in activities in developing advanced systems and solutions to be many federal government needs we see growth in requirements in terms of access to  bandwidth bandwidth intensive applications whether that's video streaming from an unmanned vehicle or surveillance from a high altitude airship lockheed martin endorses the enactment of h r thirty one twenty five the radio spectrum inventory act we do however have some concerns with the bill as it was introduced and respectfully suggest that the bill be modified to reflect the following issues first i note that the stated purpose of h r twenty five just wrote spectrum efficiency the build build is not explicitly require that communications and non communications uses of the spectrum which can be used for a point of comparison the intensity of use metric is not correlated with effectiveness or efficiency for many spectral uses users moreover efficiency improvements should not be equated to  n in bandwidth utilized measuring spectrum efficiency using as a proxy the price energies are willing to pay for a license is also when appropriate medical many critical spectrum users deliver tremendous value to our country most importantly to our national and homeland security but do not directly generate revenues second we are concerned that the bill would inadvertently require f c c and the n t i a to disclose sensitive information that should not be disclosed this disclosure does not only impact the federal government but also impacts some f c c licensees like lockheed martin we agree with the administration stated concern and note that from any information security perspective it is very important to recognize that the release of individual unclassified data points can result in sensitive information being improperly disclosed when viewed more as an aggregate third i would like to raise a concern to the subcommittee regarding the possible misinterpretation of the legislation in two ways one is the potential  allies in the international community given the scope of the frequencies being inventoried in the provision requiring recommendations for reallocation the department of defense and the defense industry have worked hard to achieve an international spectrum  operability the other concern is the requirement for an annual review of spectrum this review can create an impression of volatility and instability in spectrum allocations thus impacting the long term research and development acquisition and the deployment of new systems  suggestions of instability and specter mass access could result in a chilling effect on the long term technology investments finally we have identified a few technical issues with the drafting of the bill that we will submit separately to the staff while i'm here today to address h r thirty one twenty five i would like to note that we do have some concerns with h r thirty nineteen as well and we would be happy to offer a follow up discussions with the subcommittee mr chairman i appreciate having the opportunity to testify h r thirty one twenty five is a good start and lucky martin commands you and the other co sponsors for identifying the need for spectrum inventory and for taking the initiative to draft legislation to address this issue we hope that you will agree with our suggestions to improve the bill and we look forward to working with you and the committee staff throughout the legislative process i'm happy to answer any questions you have hank you very much starting johnson mr shapiro going mr chairman members of the subcommittee thank you for this opportunity to testify in the pending spectrum inventory and relocation bills my testimony this morning will focus on two main points first to determine how and if spectrum resources are being used efficiently a spectrum inventory inspector database must include data on actual spectrum utilization second until a database is compiled and analyzed we caution against jumping to any conclusions as to what's next for particular frequency bands because new technology present spectrum x x access alternatives that have not existed until now i've been involved in the wireless industry for over twenty five years in the early one nine hundred ninety s i was president of the personal communications industry association which helped the nation wireless industry win the  microwave spectrum for new personal communications services which were the source of competition and innovation that were referenced by congressman markey then i founded and ran a company called columbia spectrum management to facilitate a negotiate the relocation of fixed microwave incumbents in yes fans for the auction winners since march of this year i've been the c e o shared spectrum company shared spectrum is a small technology company located in vienna virginia since the founding of the company and yet the year two thousand dr mark we can re is been conducting spectrum occupancy studies to document the on tap potential of many unused frequency bands attached to my written testimony as a list of our public studies to date the video monitors in the room are also displaying some sample results of our measurements these studies include measurements from new york city chicago and washington d c during periods of anticipated high radio traffic they indicate that less than a third of the allocated radio spectrum was being used at any given time to take advantage of this empty spectrum capacity s s c pioneered dynamic spectrum access or d s a technology d s a takes advantage of the empty spectrum capacity by adapting to the spectral environment and changing transmission or reception parameters this allows for more efficient wireless communications without interfering or requiring the dislocation of legacy systems using the same bands the company developed d s a over the past nine years for several military projects and this technology is now being implemented in several military radio systems we are also exploring several commercial applications including new cost a cost effective rural wireless broadband systems that can access preferred lower frequencies as has been pointed out throughout the hearing the demand for spectrum across all sectors and markets is substantially increasing we agree that the necessary first step in confronting the spectrum dilemma is to conduct a comprehensive study of the nation's spectrum resources we are therefore pleased to support the radio spectrum inventory act the bill would provide guidance to the f c c and then t i a to work together to create a database of spectrum allocations and assignments however it is also important to apple meant this data with information regarding the actual use of the airwaves virtually every service to which spectrum is allocated can show a legitimate need for the spectrum and most incumbents will argue that they make affective use of their allocations thus compiling a database of spectrum assignments will be interesting but that alone will fail to show how much or even if the spectrum is actually being utilized until such a database is compiled and available we caution against any pre supposition as to what's next for a particular radio band to assume that the next step following the initial inventory would be a traditional reallocation proceeding would amount to a plan for years and years of fighting among entrenched interests that have notion or incentive to have their existing spectrum rights diminished no matter how little they are utilized this is based on my personal experience where it took six years for the p c s spectrum spectrum to be reallocated and that looked like a fast track compared to most re allocation efforts that typically have dragged on for more than ten years as a subcommittee moves forward we believe that it is also important to recognize that new technologies like d s a enable more efficient use of existing spectrum allocations and can create new opportunities for sharing spectrum with the existing services in underutilized bands the interest in finding additional spectrum for wireless broadband services is more likely to be accommodated in a timely manner if a flexible access framework is established that includes d s a enabled sharing with government and non government incumbents such a framework would focus on multi purpose in legacy bands with flexible overlay rights and responsibilities this approach is that it approaches that involve certain bands and relocating incumbents would be too difficult too costly too can science too time consuming and in light of new technology are necessary instead a better policy would build upon the approach taken when the p c s vans were made available in  hundred five the licensees the licenses were auctioned were subject to not interference requirement with the existing microwave incumbents well most of those licensees ultimately were relocated to new systems on other frequencies the advances made in  in cognitive radio technology now provide the ability to co exist with legacy systems that was not available at that time thank you again for this opportunity to testify i look forward to your questions well thank you mr strauss and thanks to all of our witnesses for your informative remarks here this morning particularly appreciate the broad consensus that is evident from your testimony about the need to move forward with both of the bills that are the subject of our  legislative hearing this morning particularly the need for an inventory of spectrum that could be reallocated for commercial purposes a number of you most recently mr strout just mentioned the potential of spectrum sharing as a way to accommodate new commercial services within our spectrum constraints could you talk a little bit about the state of the technology with regard to spectrum sharing and what potential really does it hold and what limitations does it face and who would like to begin mr hatfield thank you i think it's and could you pull that microphone just a bit closer i think satellite and antennas pointing on the ground or pointing in different direction than that provides sufficient isolation that a satellite system can share with a terrestrial system and that static short of sharing has been with us for quite some time and used effectively i think the key here is combining the concepts that tom talked is that that a lot of spectrum is not being used all the time today and look at more dynamic forms of sharing in other words for example here in town today a particular channel might not be used by some private industry some private microwave something like that and that spectrum could be then shared on a dynamic on a dynamic basis so i think the key going for you're not talking about technology in that example that would use the same spectrum simultaneously by various users but simply with a phased use of the spectrum by various users each using it fully within the allotted time where they're using it state of technology development for actual simultaneous sharing of the same spectrum i'm not sure i'll be more than happy to field all right mr strout we have tested this in multiple occasions with members of the military and members of the public present our current porting it over to several different radio systems our expectation is that those radios are going to be ready for testing next year and deployed into the field no later than the year so there's nothing commercially available today that  simultaneous use of the spectrum by multiple users you're saying this technology is under development and ready for testing potentially next year i would suggest that it's beyond the level of testing it is now being deployed into radio systems are being developed into radio systems within the commercial sector we have an initial licensing agreements with two different companies to use it within the t v white space is our expectation is that upon conclusion of that rule making proceeding the development of those rules at sometime within the eight the next eighteen months that it will be deployed in the other comments mr calibrate you know as you've heard from you know the three of us there is of you seem to be a far greater opportunity in terms of quantities of spectrum  to open it up on a shared or opportunistic basis and and there are a couple important precedents at least to build on you know one i think you're aware of is of course the military already allows shared use of r certain radar bands so you know thanks in part to the jumpstart broadband act that was over on the senate side some years ago the military agreed to open up the five gigahertz band based on a technology that that  uses dynamic frequency selection and other words the devices sense the air they sense before they transmit and if they don't detect anything like radar then they operate there and they keep checking checking checking and they can get off real quick the other even more important technological i think precedent here to build on is the order last year from the f c c on the t v opening the t v white space for on license sharing because what the commission has attached and so we can build on that database that the commission's about to create and add a lot of other frequencies over time that would have conditions attached to them that's very encouraging to hear i would just note that the first commercial application of the white space technology is now occurring in my congressional district right one other question my time is expired but i'll ask if you have any brief comments about this are there shortcomings at the present time in the licensing and spectrum management processes that are employed by both in the f c c and if you detect that there are at a do you have recommendations for how those processes could be improved anyone want to answer mr largent i would just repeat some of the problems spectrum with some of our members as being a shortcoming that i think are addressed in both of these bills and i think are a definite step in the right direction thank you very much anyone else want to comment on th field i would add that the commission has done things in the past to encourage a secondary market so that one of the problems with the existing system it's centrally controlled and therefore there's a lot of rigidities built into it the commission to its credit has gone to the use  secondary markets were so forth can lease spectrum and that is not worked out quite as well as i have as some of us would hope so i think there's possibilities to continue to encourage the secondary became the backbone of the fourth generation wireless service not was one approach now the other approach appears to be a stimulus package put in seven billion dollars to provide grants and i guess the question would be the spectrum it appears to me would be a more efficient way to do it than just giving out the stimulus package might comment on the two approaches here in which one you think is more advisable well let me just say this the bottom line is we need to have additional spectrum in the wireless space in order to meet not only demands but the promise the hope twelve years out of sixteen years to get it to come to fruition and our thought is this is really a process that we're in the process of developing today that should have begun years ago it's still going t somewhere between twelve and sixteen years so i guess the bottom line is that there's different ways to get to the bottom line but the important thing is to get to the bottom line and that's additional spectrum for the wireless industry to members of your association you indicated the problem in the transition and i mentioned my opening statement i would think if we want other commercial carriers to compete and get involved this would be a flag to them that if it's going to take too long they've got this investment i think of over four billion dollars and how long can they continue to deal with africa estimation i mean you might give us some ideas of what could be done to improve this real timeframe and perhaps what we in congress should be aware of well actually the second bill that we're talking about today thirty nine actually goes to that subject that once the spectrum is identified the spectrum option then getting the people that are on the spectrum off the spectrum more expeditiously is really helped by this particular bill that we're talking about today so you know my hat's off to you i think congress  you think that will do it on forward made mistakes recognizes mistakes is now trying to correct them and that's a real positive movement and you feel pretty comfortable i'll solve the problem you know i'm not i'm not i'm not positive it solves all the problems that are involved but it solves the problem big no of no with the auction process that took place two and two years ago mr hatfield what steps could be taken to make more efficient use of commercial and government spectrum that's already deployed in my in my written statement i go through the list of sort of five techniques that can can be used in the two probably that haven't been talked about as much here is one more tactical efficiency it's like getting more mpg on your car i mean there's sort of two ways we can improve our transportation efficiency one is buy more mpg or buy or buy a car pooling for example and sharing that we've talked about here is the carpool analogy but we also need to look at ways more efficiently using this back and getting more bits per second as i would say in technical terms there's couple ways doing that one is through compression reducing the number of bits that have to be sent the other is using more what we call more efficient more efficient modulation techniques what scares me what scares me as an engineer is those those techniques only look like they can provide us with incremental improvements and i'm not saying we shouldn't do it we absolutely should because it's crucial and they are happening but that but the difficulty is they're probably not going to be adequate so that leads us then to the need for more sharing or  reallocation the other way just to complete the thought is through more intense reuse of the spectrum for example when your cell phone the tower may be two miles away and therefore you're taking up investments and more cell towers that that helps a lot keep getting the cells smaller of course then you have to get that information the cell tower back to some central location and that's where i believe your broadband policy of getting fiber out there intersects with the with the wireless industry because the wireless industry needs to get the wireless data back to their central point and that requires broadband facilities so i think there's a real length here between what's being done in the broadband policy and the wireless cam and i don't have any further question but i thought dr johnson might want to comment if he wanted to on the same question in the commercial receiver standards the military already used talk about the spectrum that's been allocated for commercial mobile wireless just just have the spectrum studies been completed to tell us whether the spectrum is being used i'm not sure i understand the question available to this industry today is used more efficiently than any other country of the world i'm going to take that as as you know and i thank you for that now do all c g i carriers operat no sir has f c c conducted any usage studies which examine whether the spectrum either by your members or anybody else is being properly and adequately y with regard to that spectrum which is assigned to them i'm not aware of any so the argument seems seems to be here i think that you have enough spectrum for now but will need it ten years from officially allocated because you're remember from your time in this committee we had a serious problem with regard to the fact that the spectrum was just thrown out of there by the f c c and by the government to be sold for budgetary reasons as opposed to addressing the proper use of the spectrum not all witnesses started going on your right my left how do you view h r three one two  or no and as a last witness now if the completion of national broadband should be delayed pending enactment of h r three one two five and h pending the inventory mr archer and i would agree with that the sooner the better delays not good but delay is frankly better if you don't have the right information so if you need the right information delay it may be necessary but there are no special i'm no special by concern is that if we do it well and i'm not satisfied that up until this time we have been doing these things well and i'm very much troubled that we will expand that bad history by again thank you very much chairman dingell the gentleman from oregon mr walden is recognized for five minutes thank you very much mr chairman again thank you for this hearing i want to thank the witnesses for your testimony as well all of you i especially d johnson appreciated your technical counsel on the legislation as well as senator smith i want to go to you regarding this notion put forth by the distinguished scholar in residence at the f c c for first amendment spectrum dr benjamin in his paper and this is just from may of this year he writes the most obvious desirable regulations are probably those that are pure deadweight loss regulations that cost broadcasters significant amounts of money but have no impact on their behavior this category would include onerous record keeping requirements ascertainment requirements etc these are unlikely to have any impact on programming and thus will likely be pure cost his is i and i find that an abomination i find it offensive i don't quite understand why he's now in this position at the f c c and i'll follow up on that given the fact that we just went through a two billion dollar d t b conversion and you're on the cusp of a digital television technology that is mobile and you make the argument in your statement about how every new subscriber to that free over the air digital mobile service makes that even more efficient because you're not adding to the stream if we follow professor benjamin's council or the f c c does we just throw in that two billion into a paper shredder congressman yes you're throwing two billion dollars of u s taxpayer money away you're throwing away potentially untold billions that that the u s citizens have spent and detrimental reliance upon the  congressional urging of the of the digital transition suffice it to say my phone has been ringing off the hook ever since this gentleman work is has been revealed that said i broadcasting and the broadcast airwaves they've always been a public option to make sure that everybody gets served and he seems to be suggesting that that maybe should be yesterday all right dr johnson i raised the issue in my opening statement about the amateur radio broadcast service and i failed to disclose that mr ross and i are the two licensed amateur radio operators which gives us license to be real hams and  spectrum i won't be able to give you a full detailed answer because i have not looked at that particular issue in detail i do i would support however and i also i'm a ham radio operator and i would support however your thesis that the ham bands have been an important backup system for the nation's security and i think they're also a valuable resource for citizens who have an interest in that kind of technology and  although there are other avenues to address those same issues now outside of the ham bands i think they're still important and we'd be happy to look at the technical details of the challenges to that particular band mr have people do you have any comment idol and if somebody was really clever maybe we could figure out ways that we could do a little bit of sharing there that would not diminish the amateur opportunity at all for use in emergencies but in not emergency times might might be used for some other afghanistan and pakistan i'm going to go to so again i thank you for your testimony look forward to working with all of you and others on this issue as we move forward in a thoughtful and constructive way on appropriate use of spectrum thank you mr chairman thank you very much mr walden the gentleman from five minutes thank you mr chairman i will try to be brief here first of all i want to thank the panel i found the testimony very informative and i didn't hear anyone say well no i don't like this legislation i think dr johnson had a little reservation about some of the definitions so i appreciate that and i'm going to ask you a minute to expand on that but first i want to say expanding the range to ten meg a ten gigahertz seem to be a disagreement between mr calories and mr hatfield on that's the most critical on the other hand if some of the some of the services we might want to relocate could go higher still work ok if they went higher in frequency so therefore i think and make an argument that we  limitations that would prevent it from being a certain application dr johnson you didn't mention the idea that there's no single metric for efficiency do you have is there anyone out there that you're aware of or that would be useful or a sort of a set of definitions we think that a single definition like intensity of use is not appropriate we propose these in a variety of metrics  correspond to the critical parameters related to the particular system application that's being used for example metrics for communication systems would be different than those for radar system so you're going to supply the committee with that information we would be adequate and i didn't quite appreciate that you know i come from a technical background and i was a test engineer in a field tester but then when mr strub showed the graphs with all those blank spaces people little inspectors were going to want to say well geez we use all of that we don't need to reallocate and so we're going to need to actually do quite a bit of testing to validate it seems to me like a fairly just on the basis of what was broken here this morning a fairly big task to really judge how much spectrum is available there could you comment on that yes congressman we submitted some suggestions in our written testimony as to some short term approaches as well as longer term approaches we'd recommend approximately ten to twenty stations supplemented by mobile testing and over a longer period of time and a larger number perhaps in conjunction with universities and other organizations to be able to compile an ongoing inventory of how the spectrum is actually being used i mean that's that's going to take a lot of resources a lot of time and a lot of money i mean even what you've called a shortcut seems like a fairly big undertaking believe that the n t i a another organizations the national science foundation already compiling this information so some of it is there are studies or many of our studies are already available publicly and can be integrated into this database so it's not as large an undertaking as it may seem but i do agree that over a long term there's a great deal of data that we will be compiled by the national science foundation and she's made the illinois institute of technology is actually conducting ongoing studies in chicago they have over two terabytes of information that's already been collected from that location  i mention my written statement that the costs are really coming down for doing this so for example which is the british telecom regulator recently completed a nationwide drive test of their airwaves they mount measuring devices  just on the rooftop of the national vehicle fleet which we can do with the postal service or whatever and then you know that gets downloaded over wife there's also very inexpensive devices now to have a mesh monitoring network that's being field tested in the d c area fairly soon by a company we're hoping to have one on our on the roof of our building downtown largent are you familiar with this latest g a o report that came out titled f c c needs to improve oversight of wireless phone service i have not read the entire thing but i'm aware of it are you aware of the  recommendations of g a o jail recommended that the f c c number one improve its outreach to consumers about its complaint process related performance goals and measures and monitoring complaints number to develop guidance on federal and state oversight roles and three develop policies for communicating with states are you familiar with the three recommendations well i'm more familiar with the fact that they uncovered first that was in that report that showed that eighty four percent of that's where i'm going you're getting ahead of me well let's just go right there i mean that's what i'm asking if they have these recommendations based on it so i want to ask you to comment about what they're based on i mean my gosh when we look at all the all the choices that consumers have you're going into the shopping season in the levels of satisfaction would you please comment on the basis of the facts they relied upon for these recommendations i think  s not the way i would have written a report based upon the statistics that they found in the study knowing this industry as i have for the last six years and seeing the consumer complaints decline every year and the consumer satisfaction go up every year we feel like that that's a movement in the right direction eighty four percent approval by consumers is not good enough for us we continue to want to raise that even more but it's a heck wireless industry to show the improvement of our service for customers regarding remember companies when they make strategic judgments in competition wouldn't consumer satisfaction be one of those important elements absolutely that's the key statistic that they look at all the time i get excited when i when i listen to my good friend mr markey share his excitement about competition in the marketplace and  so i would share with my good friend mr markey that what we rejoice in competition in the marketplace and what is bringing consumers relative to choice do not be so eager to get more government concerns about your member companies out there i've got concerns about consolidation in the marketplace i've got concerns about what type of new business model does this bring what is its impact and how does it drive a new model for advertising you held up your phone and you talked about this is a multimedia platform as we have a marketplace as you try to judge into the future it's all about individual izing of advertising and i can almost see as if we're going to permit the marketplace to begin to mine and profile people pretty soon even advertising out it's even driven not only upon a web you can almost have individualized advertising occurring upon t v so as i try to think about into the future and how a vertical integration is this kind of deal when you have this many eyes of comcast and being able to control content it almost turns our present business model inside out upside down i welcome your comments on m congressman some of my members are for it some of them are very concerned about it and i'm with my friends very good senator  court long ago talked about the importance of having diversity out there among our media that is back in the one nine hundred forty s with regard to ideas if i were one of your member companies and i'm a small company and i have a couple of c and the department of justice will look at all of these things and propose conditions if this is to go forward at all and at this juncture it is the feeling of the association that we should allow the process to work one of the  one of the concerns i have mr chairman and why i would encourage to place your eyes and considerations on this issue is is defined by the silence when there is silence in the marketplace because of this type of deal that tells me that there is great concern in the marketplace and fear that if in fact a company were to come out and come against this type of merger what type of repercussions in the marketplace would in fact occur so the fact that there's silence out there is beginning to bother me mr smith that a lot of your member companies while they may confide in that phone call with you that there's a reason that they're not coming out publicly because they don't want to have affiliates they are have most issues in common but this is one where there needs to be an accommodation an understanding and a legal structure put in place that allows both to survive subcommittee will conduct at least one hearing on the comcast n b c acquisition at the appropriate time next year that announcement has already been made and the gentleman is quite right in expressing the need for us to focus on this very carefully it is certainly our intent to do so the gentleman from michigan mr stupak is recognized for five minutes but you mr chairman apologize to our witnesses for not being here their testimony as in with constituents and at take up other meetings with mr large and have a question for you recognizing the challenges that congress and the f c c will face in trying to recruit locate as much spectrum as possible our companies within the exploring the possibility the possibility of that dynamic spectrum access that mr hatfield suggested as a possible solution i would say our companies are at a point where they're exploring every opportunity every option that's available to  them including how to utilize their own spectrum that they currently have use it more efficiently and look at every other avenue that's available to them in the years ahead to access more spectrum is any of the companies within your available to them mr smith good to see you in thanks for being here let me ask you this one i think it's important that we look for search for a solution to the spectrum crisis that preserves free over the air broadcasting while fostering wireless broadband deployment in your testimony you cite how the use of white space spectrum in rural america is a way to support both of these public interest goals is this solution workable in urban centers as well  it may well be however we do have a concern about interference and want to make sure that we don't degrade other segments let me ask you this has any be conducted  studies to show how much spectrum is needed to fulfill future business plans of like mobile t v multicast television have you done some studies we are doing a study right now on that very question because we understand the importance of hatfield we talked a little bit about the spectrum crisis and is it only will we have to worry about that for the high population centers or is this a national issue i mean in my rear area we have a lot of places will have anything so afternoon having said that i think i tend to divide the market right the problem into two parts and that is the urban problem in the more rural problems and we need to be more dynamic ways to be able to use the spectrum in the rural areas not not needed  because of the lack of of population density let me ask you this is more access to spectrum the only issue the f c c and this committee should be focused on or are there other efficiency gains that can be explored with next checked next generation smart phones  as i indicated in my written testimony i don't hold out an awful lot of hope for some of the traditional solutions for the major major urban areas but there are there are  certainly examples and i like compression and so forth that we should be should be pursuing i don't think they solve those technical solutions solve the problem completely well if we start using smart phones with the manufactures  alleviate some of these problems or to see with trying to free up more spectrum can that be a solution can we find it more in manufacturing as opposed to the f c c in government  i don't see how the handsets by themselves can do an awful lot to improve with the exception of this sort of dynamic spectrum access where the handset is smart enough that it's looking around to see what other spectrum might be available and moving to it so we can use the intelligence in the handset to find additional spectrum i'm not sure how intelligence and a handset will improve the efficiency of networks because as dale said the you know we're reaching the limits the technical efficiency limits we're also reaching them it's in terms of how close the carriers can bring cell sites and back all to the consumer so you need to shrink the  size get more reuse and one way to do that is right now we have pending in at the f c c rules to extend the card or phone device choice to wireless and when consumers have the choice of any device the devices increasingly will be of a kit of a type that they'll decide on the fly what's my what's my most economical path and mo in most cases that will be like in a place like this at home in offices and public spaces it will be over so that we can make more efficient use of currently allocated spectrum what percentage of our spectrum needs you think can be satisfied just by the use of dynamic sharing i've not looked at it on a i've not looked at it candidly and that's sort of quantitative quantitative but i think i thank you well i'm not going to answer you very satisfactorily but i think it's sufficient enough that would be a significant it would be a significant help i don't think it gets us all the way there so what you're talking about here is something which is supplemental to what the needs are going to be in the future but not a efficiency where we just say can we use new technology here too to get the better of patients the out of the automobiles or out of the out of the appliances which we use but at the same time you also want to do the research you know on all the technology all electric vehicles whatever the move out of the old technologies and that's kind of what we're talking about here how do we get the additional spectrum but also squeeze out the maximum efficiency out of the old technology so how do you view it well i would say that i have a chart here that that we submit for the record and give to you if you'd like to look at it basically talks about how efficient different countries utilize the spectrum available to them and in the u s we have two hundred seventy million consumers and we use per megahertz six hundred sixty thousand consumers per megahertz of spectrum and that is the most efficient by a factor of at least to any other country mexico actually they have seventy nine million users there but we absolutely are using our spectrum available to us in the most efficient way possible and sometimes by magnitude mr smith your question to us is about about about this balance between squeezing efficiencies out of the old miracles that we have before us is how much more efficiently we're using the spectrum now and certainly broadcasting as it is invested billions to to achieve that efficiency i do believe in because we've seen the explosion of technology you spoke of at the beginning of the hearing congressman that there are going to be compression technologies that will provide some of the answer here so we can preserve the broadband and the broadcast  increasing efficiency we mentioned briefly in my testimony the use of unmanned aerial systems and streaming video and the intelligence surveillance and reconnaissance needs in iraq and afghanistan that are driving that efficiency as they are with commercial market like martin has developed spectrum management tools that are being used by our customers to increase that efficiency but i'd also like to point out that in the federal nonfederal kind of binary view of things it's really not that it's not a vine or binary view at at all because it's important to realize of the department as a major consumer of commercial equipment and using commercial systems both restaurant space so they have to balance that accommodation between commercial on and federal needs you twenty seconds yes i would emphasize that the military is deploying dynamic spectrum access that is being built into several military radio systems going back to the question about utilization emphasizing the point that you made regarding the p allocation proceeding on that spectrum was encumbered by over fifteen hundred microwave patch which ultimately they the p c s licensees received at the auction with the understanding that they could not interfere with them and we're recommending building on that model being able to utilize the technolog available today where they may not actually have to be relocated but actually could share the spectrum i think we have to be inflexible in terms of the goal which we're trying to reach but flexible terms of what the final combination looks like but i think it will involve obviously substantial both increased efficiency and more spectrum as well and we have to ensure that we encourage both to be maximized so that we do make ourselves as competitive as a nation as we can looking over our shoulders a across the country to better understand the technologies behind these issues i never had a chance to tell him that personally and he's here and i want him to know that so thank you mr hatfield mr large and mr smith you both talk a lot about mobile video broadcasting and i'm curious do you think people want to watch a limited number of channels had a set schedule on a device about this big or do you think they want to watch their choice of programs when they want to watch them and should that consumer preference drive spectrum decisions well i would say that from my personal experience the older i get the harder it is to watch television but you know we're serving closer probably now two hundred eighty million customers in this country will probably be the statistic at the end of this year and i would say that there probably is consumer uptake of that particular service as it becomes available as it is available now mr smith congressman doyle i don't believe they should be regarded as exclusive i think we can do both  steelers beat the seahawks in  right now the steelers aren't beating anyone so eddie are you responsible for that congressman to that point i hear your point but i also hear congressman markey i hear people say no i wan watch it when it's really happening and it's just part of being the american tradition particularly comes to sports people are very anxious to see it live real time mr hatfield first of all i want to thank you for your kind march earlier but i think as an academic stepping back from this you've asked a very very fundamental question if people want to watch content simultaneously in that broad broadcast model is a very efficient way of doing that balance should be made and of course on the broadcast side we probably have this additional public at benefits that general broadcasting that may sway the decision but i think that from an engineering standpoint that's a fundamental question how much of it's individual choice and what time you want to watch it and how much of it if you want to watch simultaneously with other people in the country does anyone else want to chime in on that ok fine i just have one other question mr smith in the pittsburgh area roughly about eight percent eight percent eight watch with rabbit ears how many how many people the have any numbers on how many people watch h d t v over the air with you know the rabbit ears versus relying on standard def is there any kind of figures like that i've heard the range from eight percent to twenty percent but i think is a couple other factors that are important depending on your congressional district for example mr barton's district may go as high as forty v i believe a the figure of twenty five billion dollars which is an estimate of what people have spent in the digital transition i think many of them do now and they really like high definition and they don't want to see it degraded and they're beginning to really value the multicasting so that they get a religious channel a weather channel a hispanic channel a korean channel this is this is the miracle that is now made possible because we all did this  and it's a very exciting future that i hate to see clouded by ill considered ideas that pit broadband against broadcast i do think in the in the fullness of time there will be technologies that will provide for both thank you mr chairman i have no more questions i'll yield back thank you very much mr doyle the gentleman from washington state mr s is recognized for five minutes thank you mr large and we know americans are going to look at their cell jurisdiction ability to object to our citing proposals but doing it in a timely fashion and that that goes a long way to helping this industry provide more service to this country so i really applaud the f c c for their action on the tower citing the two bills that we're looking at today are kind of the beginning the process of the process the spectrum amatory bill looks at the possible spectrum that's out there how it's being used and what spectrum could identified for hire better use perhaps and then your bill comes in at the end of the process and says here's a more orderly  move the current spectrum holders to their new spectrum and do it in a more efficient effective way and do it faster so both of these bills are good bills and go a long way to improving the process of acquiring additional spectrum which the wireless industry is sorely going to need in the years to come i want to make sure i didn't miss anyone i didn't hear any good or even not so good constructive criticism of our bill and i want to make sure i had missed it does anyone have any suggestions on the bill and work with mr upton on that you would suggest to improve the product we're always looking for good suggestions this might be the first hearing in american history where there isn't any constructive criticism so this is quite a achievement mr calories you've suggested broadening the purpose of the spectrum relocation fund to support modernizing the federal systems and allowing for a greater degree of band sharing could you give us any sense what you would be suggestive of as far as cost and what type of approach right it's very difficult to know the exact cost in fact i would assume probably you know first of all that this that the agencies that would be proposing to modernize their system to  up spectrum for sharing that they would be in a sense second in line you know there would be first from that spectrum relocation fund a priority for those agencies that needed to migrate off a band so that it c should be able to apply to the technical panel that you propose in the bill setting up which would then recommend to o m b which of those you know on a competitive basis which of those would would have the greatest impact in terms of freeing up spectrum for the commercial sector or for spectrum efficiency and it's really a great benefit because it would make those agencies more effective with more modern communication while also freeing up spectrum thank you very much mr enjoying i'm going to ask unanimous consent on behalf of the gentleman from nebraska mr terry to insert in the record a letter concerning the subject matter before us of the electronic warfare and information  question of dr johnson in your testimony you indicated that future governments about term needs will be focused on high bandwidth usage such as video for you a b s or high altitude surveillance aircraft is that correct is correct can you please provide an estimate of the percentage of the d o d s high bandwidth video capacity used by another surveillance aircraft that is currently provided by commercial satellite systems using spectrum above ten hurt no i can't provide that but we can provide that after the hearing i thank you and do you believe that most of the future high bandwidth video capacity for the us these also will you spectrum above ten  thank you thank you very much a question i have and i thank you for yielding is it's about the delays in the delivery of spectrum and its impact on delivering commercial systems so when you you lay out these timelines for the delivery and they're not met so i look at this legislation before us and i'm interested in your opinions if i were to offer an amendment  mr markey talks about giving encouragement what about it i would offer an amendment that has a penalty clause so that if a government department or agency does not deliver the relocation at the timeline that specified whether it's classified or unclassified then that department or agency is to pay interest on the money relative to where that spectrum is located so you can figure out what the economic impact would be so if d o d says well we just difficult for us to deliver the spectrum from mobile pensacola to jacksonville because we have our classified issues well deal with that tell us what they are you said you could deliver on a particular date then deal with it and so i'm interested if i were to offer such an amendment as an incentive because if we ask for these companies to put billions of dollars you're asking for next auction we do the next auction government takes the money and we use the money yet aren't delivering when we said we would and so in the end you know mr smith you talked public values public values are based upon virtues if you're going to have a deal you can't have a deal without adeleke and fidelity requires two people two people and so a government is not upholding its maybe we should have an encouragement clause called a penalty clause when your ideas your thoughts off the spectrum to get off so that you give them the spectrum relocation money you would give them some amount of money if they're off in a year and you give them something less than that amount if they're off in two years so you give them more money to relocate the faster they're able to relocate as opposed to the same amount of money whenever they incentivize and penalize we like incentives legislation thank you but i have to put a second degree amendment on your amendment and we'd have to punish all members of congress who spend that specter money five times over who i agree with you  it that i think will close this happy hearing thank you to all of our witnesses have a good holiday and thank you for being