requirements for retaining just flows in this wrong medical information is in plain files state farm and other liability insurance is your specific statute that requires the form to retain what does it say it's pacifically medical records no it says and what do you know do you know what percentage of claim files actually have hipaa protected medical records in the files as opposed to just t regulator into affidavit insurance industry experts and typically what's going to happen because new forms of life it's going to need to get the medical information preemption argument that's really not fully developed in briefs but most cases are resolved without litigation if you personally injury cases and those cases will not here go to court medical records protections in place when the information is with covered it yes but his information and procedures in place that regularly how the information is going to be transmitted to that is actually authorized the release of the information in the laws and what i would direct the court's attention to is a case like timestamp for instance of those memorial that the constitution similar are selected ten other states that have the right of privacy and the court said the very purpose of the school records medical health information in discovery is to resolve the underlying just you to allow this information of  about a private industry the insurance business while highly regulated is still a private business it is and it is and it has of public and there's a public interest in seeing it regularly i'm going back to contain medical information which is protected from disclosure under the freedom of information act and the insurance co so you know we really could not pull a claim this area of it and that the rules committee and the supreme court ultimately will this issue and provide for order that does allow for the same and after claims have been resolved or lawsuits have been subtle and this was a good lead and but ordinarily the suspicion of fraud usually occurs during the course of litigation the lawyers who are reviewing the without the actual medical records because it's discovered during the course of litigation so why would you need to medical records to report or investigate possible fraud so if you don't i don't know you don't care and greens really but how do you know  d that it is very broad in fact if you look at the media the order that state farm proposed there is no restriction all it says protecting felt turnover protected health they can be used for state farms business operations my clients are not have nothing to do with say farm other than they have your misfortune of being in an automobile accident with the state farm insure their personal health information their most sensitive a regulation which requires companies such as state farm to maintain these information well at that point if they want to if if a state says that this is a compelling interest for fraud or any other reason there's up process or that if they want to yes we need this information for a particular purpose and this particular purpose all flow for stuff i have then yes if that's the state of illinois position then the state of illinois has to follow this process and that process is not out you know  sure this was where this was going to turn into the hospital and they said the very good it's not discovery subject to the supreme court rules so this was under the allowable under the license hospital licensing arms where the information was being shared in journalism in terms of potential future litigation as well as pursuance of the licensing so i think final point i'm surprised that the council so that we didn't tender a proper court order the order that we tendered which was the cook county order is completely review of an order that actually phone federal preemption of state insurance laws and regulations at the risk of stating the obvious but of preemption is disfavored there is  presumption against preemption you can't find preemption unless the intent of congress to preempt is clear and manifest if congress wa or destruction you have seen the claims filed so that would that would be the reconstruction that these medical records were available only for purposes of litigation and that would then be reflected in the file correct if if it if that's information including i go back to the insurance related fraud i go back to the good that they did that there are a number of different uses of purposes for all the reasons subform in the breeze we ask you to  insurance what regulations thank you very much not whether or not the supreme court chooses to ever take action i guess you know certainly still an open open question but i can say that it is certainly my belief and i think of the government shows