the next matter is the more of the j p morgan chase yes good morning you may please the core david stander were the appellant there is one issue in this case in this court on appeal and that is whether the trial court erred in not finding an alleged enterprise member j p morgan chase function with a common purpose with other members of the enterprise i e the default independence as sanchez and that entity the truck were made this determination even though it recognize complicity in the mate and so the counts throughout the entire time period many of the specifics were not considered at all by the trial court all they show they show complicity and  dismiss oh surely mr standard you're not saying that because the district court used the word complicity it made a finding that is directly contrary to what the court actually said which was this yes we believe the amended complaint means that it does show that the bank knew what was going on and it didn't provide substantial assistance in here and here's why how they knew it because in year two thousand and five the bank was issued a subpoena the c f e see who is investigating the non registered status of these press accounts of the commodities in exchange and despite that conclusion the bank did nothing to close the accounts in house remained open for another five years and these were all been in violation of law there's sufficient evidence to raise a question effect and if the twelve the six stage you have made allegations that give rise to a plausible inference that they had that kind of knowledge and that's what i'm trying to get at what is the evidence that they had that kind of knowledge and provided some kind of actual assistance the reason why inference can be drawn on all these circumstances many of which were not looked at by the court you can fit parker and i have asked you several times just list them tell me what are the circumstances of mine and safeguards they got a subpoena on the accounts were opened in a very improper manner without social security or taxpayer identification numbers one is consistent you said the bank the bank accounts were opened without the taxpayer identification number i think i recall that your adversary took issue with that being improper under banking regular regulations am i wrong about unusual circumstances and they were maintain a legal way in violation of the commodities in exchange at the yet they did not and the ponzi scheme continue to maintain the illegally on whose part is the and that is that make it illegal for a bank to let them maintain an account i think it's it's not an expert on banking law and i think it certainly raises red flags that the bank accounts have been set up for a future restraint in which you're not register and a review of the website would see that these are not registering accounts they're identified as a part of parcel of their lawful scheme here there may come close to doing that as we just heard from my adversary they rely principally on the fact that accounts were opened for other alleging participants in the mentioned the new or should have known allegations the must have known allegations are categorically insufficient to plead actual knowledge and do all of the aiding and abetting claims likewise the the failure to plead treat my adversary statement in the argument today that that's all we're talking about today you know maybe that means that the other claims are off the table but the rico claims are not a basis for this claim to go forward  principally because as judge correctly recognized they haven't played a common purpose there is no plausible allegation of facts in the complaint that plausibly suggest that chase had a reason to relationship with chase finally a number of things including the rico claims are time barred because this is a case in which by their own allegations plaintiffs knew that they had been injured  before they knew that they were injured in may two thousand and nine according to the amended complaint when the j p morgan accounts were closed they then had four years to bring their rico claims and they didn't five years later that d recognize the flaws in the amended complaint that it is heavily reliant on the legal conclusions that my ever stary offer when asked what you know what are the what is the basis to conclude that she's participated or even knew about the alleged scheme so the st answer i think was you know we've we played actual knowledge we and i think we also heard that they should have known and they haven't played actual knowledge with that conclusion statement and should have known has been recognized over and over is not a basis to search to find actual knowledge when pressed we heard when counsel was pressed we heard about a couple of actual allegations that are contained in the complaint but i want to caution the panel today in addition i think judge lynch is point is a good one the receipt of a subpoena even if players have had alleged that which they have not will be far from sufficient for them to carry their burden to plead actual knowledge similarly the allegedly improper opening of the account without a t i n which actually as we pointed out is authorized under federal banking regulations even if that were improper which  would be at most a red flag and you know we're not we're not conceding that it was a red flag but even if it were that would not be enough to play the actual knowledge that is the conclusion of this co over and over in cases like berman and ross or similarly counsel mention the fact that two of the f i t defendants didn't have licenses to engage in business they said they were and gave him again as i think judge when she recognized that it is not a basis to conclude that she said actual knowledge of anything including the absence of a license but y may the major point that's been made is that the council's indicating that there has to be actual knowledge proof abashment knowledge here and what we're arguing is that all these facts how all these facts and everything that the bank didn't do from all the facts of overlooking the suspicious opening of the accounts from having the same account manager for that entire time or maintaining accounts which were easily from the web could be shown to