what does it mean in what ways do they help define a structural aspect got it all but i think that one thing would be that they help hold you know when you have a part first part injection moving about another part and i think that's one of the things that gets lost is i think if you kind of piecemeal just look at the phrase injection molded rights like this claim use the powers so i disclaim use the words injection molded a couple of different times it recites for example first  parts to focus on this phrase injection molded framework about one of them is the about portion about the struts and the other is even before you get to that that you have this injection process here is how we got to it that's a process that in general and specifically here we sell to in the structure namely a into gross structure that's not a stitching together of what once started out as separate is that language of injection molded of thought and so when you're injection molding it about it's structurally distinct and it seems clear there might be an open question about you know it might take an expert to recite exactly what's happen injection molded about the striking arm components are you then saying that that stretch of a framework is unitary but it's molded about the other things yeah i mean there's actually a great example  so it doesn't require some other additional fastener it doesn't require some other additional you know method of fasten it i position is really just that that is a clear structural limitation that we have tried to call out on a good faith basis you know in accordance with what our disclosure shows what our figures illustrate saying that look we've got this framework that's injection molded about the struck component we think that's different then the it welded standing alone right is going to tell you to the two things we rejoin the words objectionable the standing alone don't necessarily do that i mean i think that we're probably helping you even more than you're helping yourself in that not now that you're doing a bad job clarify just i mean because we're saying we think the words injection molded standing alone based on our discussion with you may have a structural structural it may it may convey a structural features yes by themselves and i think that did have to be dealt with above and beyond just the about part and more as another reason why it's not just a process and that's what we tried to emphasize  in the briefing we know that the examiners actually kind of acknowledged this when the examiner talked about how the injection molding itself actually holds that struct component to the framework examiner wasn't referring to language about  eighteen and one point no actually not those that's the hinge so that's just the hinge on got it it's the riveted fasteners he was referring to were actually on and figure five which is appendix feeding nine one thirty three is an example of one of them and those structural we think that we would appreciate it it kind of be treated as such that we can sort of gauge in on the merits of the prior art and whether or not we actually have something that's patent over the prior art and that's why i started with the context of you know if one of the patent offices emphasis is on you know they did they don't want functional playing functional claiming that's kind of the opposite of what we did here we didn't just say these two things are held together by like me at one point the solicitor suggests that you know the recitation of injection mechanism it's you know that's what we had that's what we tried to recite we think it's a structural limitation we think that the examiner is kind of acknowledge that it conveys a structural feature but by doing some of that hol the injection molded framework goes about or he has arm components in the claim that's not in the specification that your honor judge toronto pointed to initially which i think plays a key role in this case that page eighty one of the kendricks that has the specifications and that's the only place that injection molding is discussed without specificity only talks about injection molding and the struts the framework instructs not about but the so it's really important and we think you know he might be able to amend around gildersleeve as claim to got around when the board decided for him and claim to but claim one says than this is in part d a claim one molded about the struggle in arm components so that integral the formed kid not say enough in the specification about what's not even mention the arm components so he may be able to use more of what's in his specification like fasteners he later in the claim that i'm having a lot of trouble following your argument i really don't understand what it is you're trying to convey that the injection molded a bow for the frame work per the claim has to go around the str molded so why does it matter whether the specification specifically disclosed at least for purposes of what we're considering today yes which is whether injection molded as a structural one meaning why does it matter whether the specification talks about injection molding about an arm thank you roger it matters a lot because it's integral it formed does not say much especially when you look at applicant had this look at figure one which is on page three of our brief figure one of the the framework which is the big thing that's if you simply took out injection molded and plopped down in its place into grow or into girly formed there wouldn't be any real doubt that that is a structural element to be well for infringement ok into grilli formed wood with this drawing figure one which looks kind of general you have some the rest of the claim has an arm component another arm a strut they're connected the word connected is right in that claim so the claim has a lot of structure and with the board was saying was and this is really important to i think your honour's on page one fifty four of the record where he made his argument to the board and this is one fifty four what the board was presented and he says clearly conveys structural limitations similis near the top of the page similar to the use of the phrases such as well did intermixed graph ok so he was relying on just just the phrase as imparting what he says even clearer structure but doesn't say that it goes that is injection molded itself by itself not with in the same process as i understand you're still telling me i'm used to it i said the red framework red would be an  of ten different components right each one joined together by hinges screws bolts rivets a framework could be ten different pieces correct yes or a framework could be a unitary structure a single structure that isn't we are not in place to make that kind of fact finding in the first instance i don't think it's i'm sorry ron i don't think it's a fact finding the anticipation is a fact finding in the substantial evidence  injection molded which he describes in his specifications as a process he says on page eighty one of the record again he says that this is page eighty one paragraphs one forty one forty one that this is a method this is a process to do in its right after injection molding processes so the board was guided eminently so by this court's clear jur this may be a process that as this sentence says produces a structural feature namely integral formation now but i'm sorry i would disagree or one of the three is an integral know seems like that is a pretty clear reference to the injection molding there's no other molding referred to anywhere in the specification if it's seventy four of the appendix right at the tough verses this truck components maybe so in that it within the material and explains that the support by molding or otherwise forming the framework then the very next sentence is similarly with a similarly mean it means referring back to the prior sentence which talks about molded by the framework similarly each of the first second arm components may be at least partially embedded if that's not about support by molding and if that moving doesn't mean injection molding i really don't know what else this pattern is about the only molding described anywhere in the pattern the word molding right here is tied directly to the arm compo would still have an argument there really here we just think that it's clearly a structural limitation on the phrase injection molded the courts exactly right and i thank you for kind of emphasizing that you don't even have